Podcasts about dutch reformed

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We're talking with Jon Thompson, senior pastor of Sanctus Church, a multisite church on the east side of Toronto. Jon has served at Sanctus for 25 years and has helped lead the church through seasons of growth, renewal, revival, and cultural change. In this conversation, he shares insights from his latest book, Presence: Resilient Witness in Times of Retreat and Revival, and explores how churches can faithfully witness in an increasingly post-Christian—and even re-paganized—culture. Learn to minister in a re-paganized culture. // Jon believes Canada offers a glimpse of where many parts of the United States may be heading. Churches are increasingly engaging people with little or no Christian memory alongside Muslims, Hindus, atheists, New Agers, nominal Christians, and people shaped by contemporary cultural movements. The challenge is not simply to defend Christian truth, but to communicate the gospel thoughtfully and winsomely to radically different audiences at the same time. Open the three evangelistic doors. // Historically, love, word, and power describe three ways people encounter God. Love demonstrates God's character through hospitality and care. Word clarifies truth through preaching, apologetics, and teaching. Power reveals God's presence through experiences such as healing, deliverance, dreams, and other supernatural encounters. Jon argues that churches need all three doors open because different people encounter Jesus through different pathways. Admit your church's bias. // Most churches naturally lean toward one or two of these categories. Conservative evangelical churches often emphasize word. Other churches may prioritize love through compassion and justice, while still others focus heavily on supernatural experiences. Jon encourages leaders to honestly identify their bias and intentionally elevate the areas they tend to neglect. A healthy church needs all three working together rather than allowing one to dominate. Don't let fear quench what God is doing. // Jon tells the story of a woman who came to faith out of Hinduism after experiencing visions, spiritual conflict, and encounters with Jesus. When her church removed those elements from her baptism testimony because leaders were uncomfortable with them, she felt that an essential part of her story had been denied. Jon warns that fear, theological bias, and lack of experience can cause churches to suppress genuine ways God may be working in people's lives. Choose encounter and systems. // Jon believes churches often falsely pit spiritual encounter against organizational structure. Healthy churches need both. Leaders should build systems that support what God is doing without attempting to control it. As spiritual activity increases, churches may need to adjust volunteer processes, pastoral care systems, staff expectations, and leadership structures. The goal is not to eliminate order but to make the organization flexible enough to respond when circumstances change. Understand renewal, revival, and awakening. // Jon distinguishes between renewal, revival, and awakening. Renewal is the recovery of first love in individual believers. Revival is a sovereign move of God that He initiates and ends where sin is revealed and there’s widespread healing. Awakening happens when revival leads to widespread conversion. Leaders should not assume revival is guaranteed, but they should remain faithful and responsive whether God brings extraordinary renewal or simply calls them to steady obedience in an ordinary season. Start by refusing to resist God. // Before changing structures or launching new ministries, Jon believes leaders should begin with a simple posture: “Lord, whatever you want to do, I won't fight you.” Many pastors love God but still struggle to trust Him when ministry becomes unpredictable. Jon encourages leaders to confront their fear, relinquish control, and remain open to correction, repentance, and change. To learn more about Jon Thompson and his books, including Convergence, Perseverance, Presence, and the upcoming re-release of Deliverance, visit jonthompsonresources.com or Amazon.com. Other Conversations with Jon Thompson Reflections on Christian Ministry at the Halfway Point with Jon Thompson // February 8, 2024 What if John Stott, John Wimber, Dallas Willard & Andy Stanley Planted a Church with Jon Thompson? // March 14, 2019 Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. 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Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, Rich from the unSeminary Podcast. Listen, you’re going to want to lean in today for this conversation because I think this kind what you’re going to get a sneak peek on is something that’s impacting churches all over the world that’s having, I think, an interesting kind of moment and is maybe points to a bit of where God is at work. And I think could for many churches that are listening in today, give them a sense of maybe some next steps, what the kind of evolution or the development of their church, what that could look like for the future.Rich Birch — Plus, it’s one of those times where I get to talk with like a real live friend, somebody that I know from the real world, not just on the internet, which is so fun. Excited to have Jon Thompson with us. He is the senior pastor at Sanctus Church, a multi-site church in the east side of Toronto with four in-person locations plus church online. This church began in 1985 with just 40 people meeting and now averages over 2,600 weekend attendees with a plan to reach 3,600 by the end of the decade and open a sixth site in the T. Dot in Toronto in the six by 2030. Rich Birch — Jon has served at Sanctus for 25 years, starting as a youth pastor before becoming the senior pastor. He holds both a masters from Tyndale and a doctorate from Fuller. He grew up in Ecuador from missionary parents, he and his wife, Joanna, who’s incredible, have three kids. His books include Convergence, Deliverance, and Perseverance. And the brand new one that I’m excited to have him talk about today, Presence: Resilient Witness in Times of Retreat and Revival. And it’s from our friends at Zondervan Reflective.Rich Birch — Jon, welcome to the show. I am so glad that you’re here today. Welcome.Jon Thompson — Yeah great to be here. Great to be back on the podcast. Hang out with a real friend, like you said, and hi to anyone listening anywhere around the world today.Rich Birch — Yeah, this is good. I’m excited for this. For folks that haven’t maybe picked up a past episode, which you haven’t, you should go go back and find them. Jon’s been on a couple times, a few times. But give us kind of a picture of a normal Sunday at Sanctus. Who’s in the room? Give us a flavor for the church.Jon Thompson —  Yeah, so our church is located, like you said, on the east side of Toronto. And some of your viewers will know this, but lots might might not. Toronto is the most multicultural city on earth, more than London, more than, well, LA, more than New York, more than Singapore, more than Hong Kong. And so there’s between 150 and 300 heart languages spoken every single day in our amazing city, by the way, you got to come to Toronto. The food culture is unbelievable…Rich Birch — That’s true. That is true.Jon Thompson — …and unparalleled because everyone’s here. So on a Sunday morning, depending on our locations, again, because we have rural sites, urban sites, and suburban sites, which makes life interesting to say the least, but we probably got 55 plus identified nationalities. We probably I think we’re on 13 on staff right now. And so everything from someone from Hong Kong to someone who’s moved here from Pakistan. We’ve got Congolese. We’ve got Irish. I mean just fill in the blank and you’re going to discover the amazing diversity of the human race on this side of heaven. And we you know we made a decision a long time ago that we were going to fight for Revelation 7 on this side of uh the moment. Rich Birch — So good. Jon Thompson — And it’s exciting, it’s hard, it’s difficult, and it’s um and it’s worth it.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. You know, Canada is and I know we share this conviction. I know you’ve said it and I’ve said it on other podcasts when we’ve had Canadian friends on the podcast. But I think it’s really important, particularly, you know, 95 plus percent of the people listening are in the States. But I think it’s important just to to set the context. Because in a lot of ways, Canada is a few a few years ahead or behind, depending on what language you want to use, of our friends in the States. What do you mean by that? When you say that, what springs to mind?Jon Thompson — Yeah, so this is a very interesting place, right? Because Canada moved from, ah you know, Christendom worldview, to a nominal Christian worldview, to a struggling Christian worldview, to a post-Christian worldview. And now I think we’ve moved to a new place, which is not post-Christian, but repaganized.Jon Thompson — And so it’s a it’s a fascinating place. Because In our context, One moment, you’ll be talking to someone who still has Christian memory, who actually doesn’t love Jesus at all, but it’s a family thing. And it’s nominal Christianity. Jon Thompson — The next moment, you’ll still run into a Mormon telling you you’re worshiping the right and wrong Jesus. The next moment, it’s a New Ager. The next moment, it’s ah a Muslim activist. The next moment, it’s a transgender activist. The next moment, it’s someone who has no clue at all on anything.Jon Thompson — And so what’s fascinating about up here is you’ve got modern, postmodern. You’ve got conservative, you’ve got liberal. You’ve got the heart of the sexual revolution in the center center of our city. It’s one of the hubs of that globally. You’ve got every religion on earth. And you’ve got churches that are dying.Jon Thompson — I think, I don’t know of the latest stats. I still think that they’re they’re estimating one third of churches will close in the next decade in Canada, like physical ah buildings will close. And while that’s happening. And all that’s happening. You’ve got still sort of Christianity memory in certain groups, and then there are churches that are exploding. Jon Thompson — And so the the way I talk about we’re a little ahead is we are your future in some form. Because we’re facing down Jesus and how we deal with the gift of immigrants globally, but also the complication of that. We’re dealing with having to pivot the gospel to an a Muslim person, a Hindu person, a nominal Christian, and and a Mormon all in one conversation.Jon Thompson — There are Bible belts left in Canada, very small ones. But like Abbotsford, for example.Rich Birch — Little teeny tiny belts.Jon Thompson —  But but there are those places.Rich Birch — Sure. Yep.Jon Thompson — At the same time there is the post-christian thing. And the reason why I think our American friends should pay more attention to us is not because we’re we’re having a third cousin issue up here and we’re jealous. It’s because actually we reflect where you’re going. Because there are going to be sections in the United States that probably will remain nominally Christian and culturally Christian for a very long time. You know, in certain parts of Houston, for example, or maybe in sections of Kentucky or Louisiana. But then you go to New York and LA or Seattle. And here’s the point. The church has to speak to both audiences at once, which feels in contradiction. But isn’t.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah and I’ve definitely seen that. I like the uh the re-paganizing language you know I’ve used the uh the pre-christian that we’ve it’s like we’ve gone kind of all the way through. And that that totally has been my experience serving here. You know I took a break. I was in the States for a number of years better part of a decade and then came back. And one of the things I’ve noticed has been this shift kind of under the current. We used to say we used to joke actually we ain’t your mama’s church. But like, you can’t make that joke anymore because like mom didn’t go to church. Grandma didn’t go to church. Like nobody in there, you know, we run into that all the time. Like that’s, you know, really common.Jon Thompson — So like literally this week. This week, my daughter is doing swimming lessons. A woman comes up to us and says, hey, I hear you’re a pastor.Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson —  Really tragic thing. She says, my husband’s dying, 45 years old. And so my wife and I end up speaking to her, praying for her. And she’s like, I have never. So she’s 45 grown up Canada. She says, I’ve never owned a Bible. I’ve never read a Bible. Could I have a Bible? Jon Thompson — Now, for you listening in the Bible Belt before you dismiss this conversation and say not our fight, I just…May I do something for a moment? That might not be true because you’re surrounded by 400 churches. But every time you go online, it is your reality. So what we experience physically in Canada you digitally experience every day. And you have to be as as adaptive thoughtful, winsome, orthodox on your digital thinking as you do your physical thinking. And again, I’ll say this a little strongly. I find a lot of you aren’t.Rich Birch — Okay. We’re starting off spicy, which is great. Okay, so you’ve seen a lot of people. Part of what I love about Sanctus, friends like, I’m trying to, again, give some context. For folks that are listening in, Sanctus is known as a, you know this is a life-giving church. People, they come to Jesus here. This is the kind of place where people take steps towards faith in in Christ, which is amazing. You’ve seen a lot of that happen over the years at Sanctus—thousands of people. When you look back on some of the patterns in people’s lives, some of the, you know, the kind of themes that come back time and time again and how they arrived at that sort of decision. What are you noticing in people’s lives?Jon Thompson —  Well, like I just said about the diversity of our place, the diversity of conversions come from those places. And so like on a Sunday morning, I mean, our baptisms aren’t more epic than yours or anyone else. I mean, praise the Lord. Right.Rich Birch — Yes.Jon Thompson — We’ve got we’ve got 10 year olds confessing the faith of their parents. But it won’t be unusual for literally, I mean, this just happened. So we’ll have like two or three, not babies, but children who say, you know, I want to get baptized. And the next person’s like, I grew up an atheist. I’ve encountered the living God through Christ. The next person is I’m a former witch. And I just actually want to renounce Satan in the tank. And the next person’s like, I used to be a Muslim. And now I’ve actually found out that Jesus is Lord.Jon Thompson —  So, so, that is not now an uncommon experience at any of our sites. And what is behind that is not only that the gospel is good for everyone—praise the Lord—but we worked really hard to make sure that all the doors are open evangelistically to all people. And that gets to our bias in spiritual gifts. But you know—and we’ve had this conversation many times, you and I, Rich—but there are three historic categories that Bobby Clinton invented years ago we’ve used where he divides all the gifts, love, word, and power.Jon Thompson — So love gifts demonstrate the love of God in the room. Word gifts clarify who God is, who he’s not, what he likes, what he doesn’t. Power gifts evidence his presence in the room. That’s true of gifts, but to take a farther step out, those are three doors evangelistically.Jon Thompson — And this is why this is so critical. Because we have to have all three of those doors—such as, hospitality, apologetic defense of the gospel, and miracles and deliverance—open all the time. Because these are the ways people have always come to faith in our movement for 2,000 years. Jon Thompson — Now, all three doors have to lead to the true Christ because there are fake Jesuses. And there’s lots of heresy out there. And it has to be involved in repentance and belief and evidence by baptism. Amen. But I find most churches, theologically and experientially, are comfortable with one or maybe two of those things. And as I always lecture on this, like formally, if you sit on a three-legged stool and there are three legs…Rich Birch — Right.Jon Thompson — …and one leg is missing. You wobble on the best of days, but you usually fall down.Rich Birch — Yeah. I’d love to kind of double click on love, word, and power, these three legs of the stool. And so familiar with, some people will be familiar with that framework for gifting like you talked about, and but kind of give us a little more, you gave you kind of a quick overview of each of them from an evangelistic point of view, but kind of give me some examples or what it might look like in a church that’s opening that that door evangelistically, you know, the love, word, and power door.Jon Thompson — Yeah, and um I think we’re going to talk about this a little bit later. I mean there’s a lot behind these statements.Rich Birch — Yep. Yes.Jon Thompson —  Like almost 30 years of conversation. Rich Birch — Yes. Jon Thompson — But like this is the best way I’ll say it. I’ve seen this in my life. I’ve seen this in my kids’ life. I’ve seen this across our church for two two plus decades, almost three now. Can I tell some stories that might help?Rich Birch — Yeah of course. I love a good story.Jon Thompson — Yeah, so… yeah so like here here’s a great example guy a young adult guy is in his basement.And he’s smoking weed, high as a kite. Freaks freaks out. Okay, great.Rich Birch — Shocker.Jon Thompson — Shocker. But actually sees a demon and like panics. Calls someone at our church, a friend of his, and is like, I’m really scared. And she laughs. And she’s like, no problem. So her first thing is not. Oh you’re an idiot. Her first thing is not, oh, you’re inventing that. The first thing is not, well, of course you’re high, you’re seeing that. Her first reaction is, well, I’ve got an answer to that.Jon Thompson — She’s like, yeah, his name is Jesus. By the way, if you say his name, watch the demon leave and then come talk to us. So the guy—total pagan—does it. Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson — The demon leaves. He shows up next Sunday. He’s radically converted. Didn’t used to be able to read, by the way, very well. Now reads at a PhD level and on a theology sort of thing, like radically converted. And his starting point was a power encounter.Jon Thompson — Now the person next to it, next to him in a conversation is the one listening to John Lennox at Oxford on the the lack validity and the historicity of Jesus.Jon Thompson — Or or you know, and we’re like, yeah, of course. And then the next person, we were just talking to this on staff. So one of our so SLT members (senior leadership team) was talking about his conversion story. And his conversion story is one of his relatives—I think it was his mom—was really sick in the hospital. Two nurses come in, and and are Christians, start praying over her, and basically start committing you know hospitality in the hospital, probably in a way they’re not supposed to. She’s radically saved, ends up leading her son to Christ, and the hus…Jon Thompson — And and so so here’s all I’m trying to say. We have a gift bias that everyone should know their gifts and be using them not only internally in the church, but see how they work out evangelistically, but beyond the gift thing. This for us is normal. We talk about this in our sermons. We actually take the Bible literally in the sense of what we’ve defended is what we believe. I find a lot of conservative people defend the scriptures and don’t believe the thing they’re defending.Jon Thompson — So for us, when I look at the book of Acts, I’m like, we will see people come to faith through healings and through deliverances and through visions and through dreams, as much as John Lennox or or our good new friend Wes Huff from Canada, who’s on every podcast showing up why the Bible is reliable, and also through that incredible, Hey. Can you just talk to me? I’m really sad. Jon Thompson — And what I’m begging churches to do is this this matrix gives you the ability to pivot to multiple people, but you have to have a culture that believes this, defends it, defines it.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Jon Thompson — And makes the weird normal, as we’ve said for years.Rich Birch — Yeah, okay. So you earlier you talked about how most churches are comfortable with one or maybe two, back to the three-legged stool.Jon Thompson —  Yep.Rich Birch — Unpack that a little bit. How have you seen that? Or maybe even more pointedly, how do you fight a get that against that in your own church? Because I you know I can see naturally we would all kind of lean in one way because of our giftings.Rich Birch — you know As a leader, I always see I see the world through my lens. And so the stuff that’s important to me, if I was leading, we would be we’d love all that stuff, but we might not be into the other two. So help help me understand, what does that look like? How do you fight against that at Sanctus?Jon Thompson — So I’ll step back and just say that you know this has been almost like a three-decade journey. For us, everything changed when we got serious about spiritual gifts, unpacking them and doing all of that. That’s a different podcast we’ve done. But what I will but what i will say is this… is that there are most conservative evangelical churches are word churches: Who God is, who he’s not, what he likes, what he doesn’t, the power of preaching. I’m all for it. I preach for a living. And by the way, for people who are starting to dismiss me, I’m reformed in my soteriology. And not only that, I’m an expository preacher. So you don’t get to throw me out the window too quick. Jon Thompson — So, I mean, i’m’m I’m all I’m all for that. But that is not the answer. It’s part of the answer. And so what we continually have done is when we realize that love, word and power are things that are all needed at once, we made them equally important. In staffing, in our conversations. That’s one. Jon Thompson — Two, you need to admit as a church where you’re comfortable and where you’re not. Because there’s a lot of churches, for example, that I always say it like this. You can have all the word people on earth in your church and know all truth, but you’re cold as anything and you’re not even sure if anyone’s been saved lately. Jon Thompson — I’m in all sorts of other churches where it’s love, love, social justice, and hospitality. But I’m like, but are you believing heresy? Do you even have any compass? Rich Birch — Right. Jon Thompson — And then I’m in other environments where it’s, you know, glory clouds and all this amazing spiritual stuff. But I’m like, do you even know the source of this?Jon Thompson — Where is this coming from? Rich Birch — Yeah that’s good.Jon Thompson — Just because it’s good doesn’t mean it’s from our Lord. The spirit of Antichrist and Christ are identical in action. So so what we’ve tried doing is saying, number one, we have to admit these three things are important. Number two, we have to come up with language for each one of them and affirm them. Number three, and you just did it live so I love this, you need to admit where you’re limited.Jon Thompson — So you’re like, Jon, I mean we know each other you’re like One of my strongest spiritual gifts is leadership. That’s what you said. This is the way I immediately instinctually and spiritually react. So, Rich’s responsibility, if he was the senior pastor, is then to publicly talk about why he’s actually not biased in other directions and why he needs to be, and find other people to be that voice.Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s so good.Jon Thompson — Because a lot of people want to be open to this, but since they have not experienced it, they don’t know what to do. And I’m like, right, because it’s about interdependence. It’s not just about you.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. I think this is a great framework. And you know, it it explains what I can think think could be what’s missing in, you know, so many of our churches and you know we so many of us are are led by uh very gifted word-oriented gift people. Like our churches are led by those people… Jon Thompson — Right. Rich Birch — …and which is amazing… Jon Thompson — Yep. Rich Birch — …but we could miss the other two. And you know in the last year our mutual friend Jeff Brody said something and that resonates with what you were saying. He’s talked about, you know you might believe that it’s true, but is it real for you? And that has like resonated with me so so deeply. It’s similar to when you talked about you know conservatives defend what they don’t necessarily believe. And you know, does this actually work out in our lives, I think is a powerful idea.Rich Birch — Now, there was a story in your book about a young woman who left Hinduism and then joined a reformed church.Jon Thompson — Yeah.Rich Birch — I thought this was a vivid example. And particularly for us on the system side, I thought, oh, this is a good way to kind of systematize this…Jon Thompson — Yeah.Rich Birch — …or think about this at a systems level. Can you unpack that story?Jon Thompson — A hundred percent. And I just want to acknowledge as we keep going, I know the vast majority of your viewers or listeners are more probably on the system side executive pastor, like that type of leader, which by the way, without you, we all die. So thank you for all your service and what you do.Rich Birch — Sure. Yeah. Yep.Jon Thompson — We’re so thankful for you. But as we keep having this conversation, think this is a challenge for you to think deeply theologically, even before your systems, because what you systematize better be true. Rich Birch — That’s good.Jon Thompson — And so this is a great example of what we’re talking about. So I teach a course up here in a seminary on spiritual conflict, a very boring, non-controversial course. And so I was teaching this, I think it was two years ago now, and a young woman comes on and takes the course, and she is in tears at the end of one of the lectures. And ah and it’s all, it’s online. So so she said, can I meet?Jon Thompson — So I said, yeah. She says, look, she said, I just, I was radically saved out of Hinduism, which is incredible, and and she said soI you know I became a christian, I renounced my hinduism, and I I have no background. Either my family are Hindus or atheists and nothing in between, which even shows you the contradiction there. Her family is made up of atheists and Hindus.Rich Birch —Right.Jon Thompson — Like she is the embodiment of what we’re talking about.Rich Birch — Absolutely.Jon Thompson — And so she says, well, I’m going to find a church. She goes to a very small Reformed church locally, like a Christian Reformed, Dutch Reformed church. They’re of course excited that she’s come to faith, which is great. The average age in the church is much older. She told me, I think she’s the first adult baptism in over a decade or maybe two.Jon Thompson — So, because of course they’re covenantal, they baptize children overall. Fun. So he’s like, well, we want to hear your story. So she writes the whole story of encountering Jesus through visions and dealing with demons and Jesus setting her free. And so submits the the testimony, and the pastor edits every single encounter out of it. And this is like in the last three years in Toronto.Rich Birch — Right. Right. Jon Thompson —  This is in Toronto.Rich Birch — Yes.Jon Thompson — And so she said, why have you edited this out? And he said, because I don’t fully understand this, though it’s true. My people will be afraid and I don’t want to make them afraid. And right there, she wept. And then she said to me. When I took your class, you not only affirmed everything that happened to me was true. Second of all, you gave me the theological principles and categories scripturally and historically to show that I am in the great line of succession of the church. If anyone should be defending the great line of succession of the church, it’s the Reformed kids. I mean, those reform kids.Rich Birch — Yes.Jon Thompson —  And so what I want to point out is in that story, fear and lack of experience, and theological bias ended up quenching what the Spirit wanted to do. Jon Thompson — And I just want to say to anyone listening. I’m not saying that every environment that you’ve been in has been perfect. I mean i think a lot of us have had experiences spiritually where people with right motives have done things wrong.Rich Birch — Yep, true.Jon Thompson — And we ended up getting hurt. So it’s sort of like dating. If you’ve ever dated and broken up or you married and and then and then got divorced, the amount of intensity it takes to re-engage is a lot. Rich Birch — Yep.Jon Thompson — So there’s a lot of you listening, you’re like, Jon, I don’t want this conversation because I don’t want to touch that again. And I’m like, you have to. You have to. The scriptures are chock full of this. This is the only way we’re going to do well between retreat and revival, whether you’re in an environment where everyone’s a false nominal Christian or everyone’s not a Christian at all. This has been the pattern since the beginning. And it’s the way the Spirit works. So maybe I’d encourage some of you to pray about your fear and your anger. So you can get on with the thing.Rich Birch — So good. and And I would say um this, what we’re talking about right here, that story of um you know, this this you know young Hindu woman who came to know Jesus, praise God, amazing story. And, you know, kind of God appearing in dreams and all of that. I feel like has, been or I don’t feel like, has become more normative in my church experience in the same kind of climate that that you’re in. And that was not normative 30 years ago when I started. Rich Birch — Like, you know, it is this kind of like, you know, we have a laundry list of similar conversations where it’s like, you know people are having dreams and then wandering into church you know they’re having dreams on a Tuesday you know between Monday and Tuesday night and then they’re just wandering to the church because they’re like I think that’s a church over there. And are like hey, Jesus told me to come here. And you know then we end up having you know deeper conversations and they you know their life gets transformed. Rich Birch — I don’t remember that stuff going on. That’s happening more, which makes sense, I think, in this context of you know this uh what did you call it repaganizing or you know pre-christian kind of context because, you know, the Spirit’s got to work directly. He’s got to, you know, get directly encounter people. So I think that’s, you know, interesting. Rich Birch — So the people that might be because people listening and…you want to say something?Jon Thompson — Well, I was just going to say, yes, and…Rich Birch — Yep. Good.Jon Thompson — 30 years ago, it was happening.Rich Birch — Sure.Jon Thompson — See, this is this is what we have to admit. Rich Birch — Yep.Jon Thompson — It was happening, but we weren’t open.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s true.Jon Thompson — So for a lot of you listening you’re like, well I don’t live in Toronto. I’m like, I know you don’t. But what you legitimize from your pulpit tells your people what you’re allowed to talk about.Rich Birch — Right. That’s good.Jon Thompson — So if you’re going to have a sincere conversation about love, word, and power, and how the Spirit really works evangelistically, whether you’re speaking again to a a cultural Christian or someone else, here’s the point. I guarantee you in the Bible Belt, lots of people are having dreams too.Rich Birch — Right.Jon Thompson — They just have been told that’s weird, and we don’t talk about that.Rich Birch — Those are the kind of things we don’t talk about here. Yeah.Jon Thompson —  Right.Rich Birch — That’s good. Okay, so pivoting in a slightly different direction. One of the things that I love about Sanctus that’s, you know, if you’re kind of in the outer orbit of the church, eventually you’ll start to hear like, oh, they have a deliverance ministry over there. That’s not on the list of like, you know, men’s ministry, women’s ministry, pioneer girls, deliverance ministry that I hear like in so many churches out there. And you’ve had it for a long time. What does that actually look like? So like an average Tuesday, how does that fit into what’s going on at Sanctus?Jon Thompson — Yeah, so this is a conversation we wanted nothing to do with. Again, we were just again, you know Willow Creek, seeker-sensitive, historic church.Rich Birch — Yep.Jon Thompson — And this is like 27 years ago now where people started coming to us and they’re like, I think I have something happening in my life that is beyond psychological or biological wiring. And we were like, we are not that church that does that. That’s the weird people down the street. You know, we’ll deal with them in heaven, but you know. And the Lord wouldn’t give it up. Jon Thompson — So 27 plus years later, I think we’ve had either been involved in or helped assist globally in a thousand cases. And just for, I love how you put that. It’s just normal for us. It’s not this thing. It’s a thing. Jon Thompson — So for us, a worship team practice and, you know, a youth gathering taking place, an Alpha running and a deliverance having the same building is just normal. Because again, our bias on spiritual gifts is there’s 21 gifts, 21 directions. We need to try to make sure that all the gifts are employed in some way. And this is a certain group of gifts.Jon Thompson — So, yeah, we’ve done it for years. The whole story of that is in the book, Deliverance, which I think you and I maybe have talked about. It’s coming out again in February through Zondervan Reflective.Rich Birch — Yep. Jon Thompson — That’s the whole story. But like for us, dealing with the demonic, both in oppression issues and demonization issues and sanctification with Christians, but also evangelistically with non-Christians is just sort of normal.Rich Birch — Yeah. So good.Rich Birch — Yeah, I yeah there’s ah there’s a lot there that you I just think is kind of ah a great part of the story that God’s writing at your church, and I think can be instructive to many of us as we’re thinking about the future.Rich Birch — So let’s let’s kind of draw in the person that’s listening, maybe like an executive pastor, church of, I don’t know, 800 to a thousand, something like that. And they’re struck by this idea this like ooh maybe we are only opening one door. We’re not talking about these other these other doors. We’re not engaged in any of that.Rich Birch — Where would you suggest that they start? (Outside of actually picking up a copy of the book.) I you know I think that’s an obvious thing where we’re going to get to, but like outside of that, how would you help them think about um you know what they should be thinking about?Jon Thompson — Yeah. So just to step back a little to this question. This book conversation we’re having is about how you deal with an environment where renewal and retreat are happening in the same place. That’s very true in our social media feeds and it’s true in a lot of our cities.Jon Thompson — So I happen to know you and I happen to know your church. Because I’ve been conspiratorially involved behind the scenes at points. So your church’s own story is where all your people need to begin.Jon Thompson — And it’s this. Only when the leaders decide not to resist God will things change. And what I mean by that is not like open rebellion against God. It’s this. The lead, I just happen to know there were moments in your church’s own story where the leaders went, you know what? We’re not going to resist you anymore, Lord. What do you want to do?Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson — That was it. That and that’s not, you know, like earthquake you know, feel. But it changed everything. I mean what are you starting this week? Is it this week you’re starting? 30 days of like. praying, or has that happened?Rich Birch — Well, yeah, we’ve done that already, which is amazing, and but there’s more of that coming… Jon Thompson — Yep. Right. But… Rich Birch — …like it’s there’s there’s lots of that stuff happening that wasn’t happening 10 years ago for sure.Jon Thompson — Right. The inception point, though, is when people just went like this. You know what? We’re afraid.Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson — We don’t understand. We prefer system over encounter. We prefer system over encounter and they’re not in competition, but both have to be there. So, Lord, what do you want to say? What do you want to do? That’s the starting point. Rich Birch — Right. Jon Thompson — Because before you work out the theology of love, word, and power and start thinking about how you, you know, witness to people from all the nations and not have a you know a vicious reaction towards them. And how you think through the, like all that.Jon Thompson — The first place is you say to the Lord, I won’t fight you. And the truth is the vast majority of us love God, but don’t trust him. And I said this on a former podcast with you. And and and lots of executive pastors, when they hear me talk, way more than this, get nervous because this starts sounding like Pandora’s box. Well, how do I systematize this? And what would be the implications?Jon Thompson — And I’m like, yeah, before any of that conversation, have you said to the Lord, whatever you want to do, I won’t I won’t fight you.Rich Birch — So good.Jon Thompson — Most pastors would say they have not prayed that. I don’t think. I also think, too, there are a series of systems that relate to what happens in an empowered encounterist church, a systemized church, and then a church going through a revival. Three very different things. And there’s there’s a set of systems.Rich Birch — You want to unpack…you want to unpack that a little bit?Jon Thompson — Yeah, sure. So I mean, there are lots of amazing churches that are commonly faithful who serve communion and preach God’s word and help the poor. And and and and those are all guaranteed places of encounter according to the scriptures. And so amazing. They’re that’s good. That’s right. That’s holy. And that’s one expression of it. Jon Thompson — When you start saying to the holy spirit not only common faithfulness but anything else you’d like to do? At that moment I have a saying, most people praying for revival aren’t praying for revival, they’re praying for a normal church on Monday, they just don’t know it.Rich Birch — That’s good.Jon Thompson — And what I mean by that is most people praying for revival are actually praying for a church where the Spirit is more present, there are more encounters, and everyone’s using their gifts and loving each other better. That’s not revival. That is actually what it’s supposed to be. So when you have a whole group of encounters taking place more than a system, there are other things you have to adjust like we’ve done. Jon Thompson — For example, you start asking your volunteers, what are your spiritual gifts? You start clarifying from the front what encounters look like. You start building house rules of how encounters are handled. It’s part of your intake process. You think about this through pastoral care. There’s no dismissing of experience. You now become an interpreter of experience 24-7.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Jon Thompson — So like there’s that. And then there’s revival. And revival is a sovereign act of God where everything falls apart, and all sin is revealed, and there’s en masse healing. And if it’s a genuine move of God that moves from renewal to revival to awakening, there’s en masse conversion.Jon Thompson — And as I share in the book, because we went through a three year experience with that, it was documented. There’s another set of organizational rules. I was meeting with a lot of leaders in England for the last three years because they are experiencing this genuinely. And I was just telling them what we went through historically. And I used the analogy for the executive pastors or the admin leaders saying, You’ve got to think about renewal and revival like being on a bike. And I said, you’re all English and you all ride bikes, so you should be fine.Jon Thompson —  And I just said, you know how there are gears on a bike? And I just said, when a move of God actually takes place, you have one set of things that are in place for that. And then when you go back to normal, you use another set. And we just said, you have to have a code word for your staff where you literally say, Monday was normal. Wednesday is now not normal, so the whole system collapses and now looks like this. And when the Spirit walks back, you go, okay. We’re going back to the other gear. Jon Thompson — That thinking is incredibly important in renewal and revival environments for sustainability of staff, for clarification of experience, and also for literal helping people not burn out. Because when God shows up, all hell and heaven break loose. And and maybe I’ll just throw this out quickly too.Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson — We should never forget that a lot of people dismiss revival-like environments because a lot of things are done wrong. And that’s a horrific starting point. Actually, that’s true in all of this.Jon Thompson — So we forget that, you know, I don’t know if I said this on this pod one of this one of these episodes, but we forget that that that Moses went up the mountain. The people were looking at the physical Shekinah glory of God. And while God was present in the most magnificent of way, they still built the golden calf in real time while they’re looking at him.Rich Birch — Right.Jon Thompson — So anytime there’s a significant move of God, the devil is in the room, the flesh is in the room, and God’s in the room at the same time. If you think God’s just going to be in the room, you’re going to end up dismissing much of what he’s done.Rich Birch — That’s so good. Talk about, you kind of you breezed over this, but I think it’s an important piece of the puzzle—the connection between repentance and revival, you know, and how repentance fits into the overall picture. The reason why I asked that, I don’t know, a year ago, I was at an event where a bunch of leaders were there and there was a Gen Z leader who has been involved in some stuff that’s been going on. And led like a public confession experience with the leaders that were there. And he was challenging us around you know, basically the question was like, well, why why is why repentance? Why is that such a big deal? Rich Birch — And this leader, which I loved, you know, was like, Well, hasn’t that isn’t that always the way? Like isn’t that what isn’t that what this is about? Like aren’t we aren’t we shouldn’t repentance be a part of the transformation of Jesus in in our lives like that? How can you separate those two? And I was like, oh yeah, right. Rich Birch — But I think that that… issue could be the fear you know you’ve mentioned talked about fear a little bit could be a part of the fear that’s in many leaders lives today. Jon Thompson — Yeah. Rich Birch — It’s like man, I’m not sure I want to engage that. Unpack that. Jon Thompson — Yeah, so I’ll I’ll I’ll do it like this. The language we’ve come up with, because I always find that categories are helpful for translation and expectations. So we always talk about renewal as the recovery of first love in an individual’s life.Jon Thompson — Revival is a sovereign act of God that he initiates and he ends. Awakening is when mass conversions take place out of a revival. What you’re talking about is probably the renewal category even more than the revival. Rich Birch — That’s good. Jon Thompson — Revival people tend to mush everything together, which is never helpful.Rich Birch — Yes.Jon Thompson — And it really bothers me.Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s good.Jon Thompson — So and I’m friends with lots of the people. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. That’s good. Jon Thompson — So I keep helping I keep saying, please, please help us. Rich Birch — Yes. Jon Thompson — So here’ here’s what I would say about you know repentance. Yes, of course, it’s always part of the thing. Of course it is. And It’s a fascinating reflection when we look at Adam and Eve. The very first thing that Adam and Eve did when they sinned is they hid. So hiddenness is the first sign of trouble. Then they tried fashioning something to cover their hiddenness. Then, of course, God comes and finds them, exposes them and gives them a better, of course, covering. Jon Thompson — Why this matters is this gets back to the love and trust thing. Lots of us are comfortable with Jesus at the wedding of Cana. Most of us are not okay with Jesus glorified at the Mount of Transfiguration. Or actually the encounter between Jesus and John in Revelation 1. Jon Thompson — And so I think a lot of times as leaders, and and let me just say this boldly too, your people will not go beyond you. You are Moses to your movement. And so I think saying to the Lord, you know, I’m open to what you would say to me, good or bad. And would you help me be in a position where I would want to repent. Jon Thompson — And I think this is okay to say. Regularly, I pray that the Holy Spirit would give me desires I don’t have. Because I don’t have lots of desires for repentance or you know. Rich Birch — Right, right. That’s good.Jon Thompson — So I think for leaders listening, whether God decides sovereignly to bring revival to your church or awakening to your area is not the starting point. That’s actually a sovereign decision. And in in the book, I talk about how I’m really concerned these days that everyone’s saying revival’s coming, revival’s coming. I’m like, actually, the Bible says revival’s not guaranteed. You have to ask if he’s decided to come. If he says, yes, you pray back the prayers, then all Heaven and hell breaks out.Jon Thompson — But if he doesn’t do that, in other words, if summer doesn’t come and you’re stuck in winter you still have to be involved in common faithfulness, including no hiddenness as a leader. And so anyone listening, I would just encourage you to trust the goodness of the God you continually tell others to trust in.Jon Thompson — I was writing a section. yesterday for a sermon I’m doing out of Mark where, you know, Martha is serving in Lazarus’s house and Mary takes the nard and smashes it on Jesus’s feet. And Judas gets really pissed off and says, how dare you do this? Jon Thompson —  And I was reflecting on how her—everyone ready, system leaders?—her uncontrolled, embarrassing, inappropriate public activity exposed his double life. And so I just want to challenge everyone that when genuine encounter starts happening, systems are not the enemy, but it will expose double lives.Rich Birch — So good, Jon, this is I feel like we could go for so long about these things. And I’m always got I got a page of notes here and other questions I’d love to ask you. But this is super helpful.Rich Birch — So the thing for folks that haven’t been tracking along, you’ve been writing a number of books.Jon Thompson — Yeah.Rich Birch — And that, you know, and they they hang together as a bit of a the thing you’re tricking people into is it’s like they think it’s one book, but really it’s like it’s like a Tolkien, more than trilogy. Kind of talk to us how these all fit together. At least that’s how I see them. I see them as like, it’s kind of one continuous conversation around the similar kind of stuff. How does Presence, this current work, fit in the context of the other stuff that you’re working on?Jon Thompson — Sure. You are right about the conspiracy. And I’ll take I’ll take the Tolkien nod.Rich Birch — Yes, I figured you’d like that.Jon Thompson — That’s very kind of you, because I don’t deserve it. I only quote him once in all my books, though. So the only once for one section.Rich Birch — Oh nice. Yes.Jon Thompson — ah Yeah, here’s how I would say it. Convergence is the is the story and the theology of how we wrestled down love, word, and power from the gift side of things. How it was implemented. How we move, basically what is the theology thing what is it what does it feel like, how do you actually build house rules around it, all the good and bad that happened with it, and then tells the story of the renewal and revival we went through, and how we survived it. So that’s book one.Jon Thompson — Book two, well, it’s not really book two anymore, but I’ll do it like this. Deliverance, which comes out in February, is a 25-plus year theological and practical experience of how we dealt with the demonic.Jon Thompson — Perseverance, book three, which is still out which will disappear soon, is all my reflections at the midway point on survivability, because you and I have talked about this before, only 30% of leaders in the Bible end well; 70% fail. The stats have not changed. So there’s a lot of the first two things involved in this. Jon Thompson — This book Presence is talking honestly about retreat and revival, talking about incarnation and why multiple models of church that feeling contradiction to each other is the point. That’s always been the point, which again, for a lot of you as admin leaders, I’d really beg you to read this, not because it’s my book. Because a lot of the battles between churches is a misunderstanding of mission. Jon Thompson — And then I talk about how love, word, and power are employed evangelistically, and then walk again through revival and how you can ask for it and what you do if He says yes or no. But the majority of the book is actually on long-term witness to a very diverse, complicated world.Rich Birch — Yeah, so good.Jon Thompson — That’s the trellis.Rich Birch — Yeah.Jon Thompson —  And the book I’m writing right now is on suffering, but we’re not there yet.Rich Birch — Yeah, so good. Friends, I would strongly encourage you, you know, listen, I’ve had multiple friends, multiple teams who have just been incredibly blessed by by Jon’s work and has challenged and done the best kind of disruptive work that this kind of thinking can do. And so i would strongly endorse uh you know that you pick up copies of Presence for your team. Rich Birch — This could be a great um you know resource to work through with your leaders and ask the question all the time. So what does that mean for us? What does that mean for us? What does that mean for us? Don’t just let these be ideas in your head, but something you can really wrestle with. Rich Birch — Where do we want to send people to pick up, you know, to get copies and all that stuff. I’m assuming you can get them on Amazon, but are there other places we want to let people know about?Jon Thompson — Yeah, so Amazon, of course, is easy for all of us these days. But jonthompsonresources.com has it too. J-O-N. Jon Thompson Resources will have all of that. Like I said, Convergence is out. Presence comes out September 22nd. Deliverance is re-released in February 2027. And Perseverance is available now and will disappear and then we’ll come back…Rich Birch — It’s like the Disney vault.Jon Thompson — …sooner than later. It is like, it’s like the Disney. Yes, it is like the Disney vault.Rich Birch — That’s a throwback to the, the you know for people of a certain age, we’ll get that. And Gen Z friends will be like, what? What are you talking about? Rich Birch — Well, Jon, I just also want to just publicly honor you. You’re you’re doing a fantastic job. Like it’s been fun to watch over the years, your continued leadership and the positive impact you’ve been having and the community that you have stewarded. And you know I can’t I love when you know more people get a chance to interact with you. So thanks so much for being here on the show today. Appreciate your time with us. Thank you.Jon Thompson — Yeah, thanks for your friendship and your prayers. 

Recorded before a live audience at Cahaba Park Church during Discovering Christ in All of Scripture, a Reformed Forum seminar hosted in conjunction with Birmingham Theological Seminary, Camden Bucey moderates a panel with Dan Ragusa, Derrick Brite, and Lane G. Tipton on the importance of biblical theology for the life of the church. The panel defines biblical theology in the tradition of Geerhardus Vos, explains its organic and progressive character, and shows how the whole history of special revelation reaches its center and goal in Jesus Christ.The conversation turns to preaching, discipleship, the unity of the covenant of grace, Christ-centered interpretation, practical resources for reading the Old Testament, and the need for churches to recover the accomplishment of redemption as the great context for every biblical passage. In the audience Q&A, the panel also addresses ministry in small and struggling churches, church revitalization, and the pilgrim ethic needed for faithful pastoral service.LinksEpisode pageBirmingham Theological SeminaryReformed AcademyChapters00:00 Introduction and panel03:55 Why biblical theology matters09:28 Defining biblical theology15:39 Derrick Brite's formation and pastoral ministry22:20 Dan Ragusa and the Dutch Reformed tradition26:09 Biblical theology in a diverse congregation30:09 Avoiding moralism and subjectivism31:27 Hermeneutical foundations35:56 The trans-testamental gospel40:24 Christianity, liberalism, and supernatural history43:54 God's redemptive words and deeds48:37 Christ, the one mediator51:11 One gospel for Abraham and the church52:56 Audience questions53:23 Lane Tipton's conversion and call to ministry58:40 Teaching people to see Christ in the Old Testament63:25 The exodus at the Transfiguration67:16 Reading passages within the history of salvation73:56 Christocentrism and Christotelism77:11 Biblical theology and small-church ministry82:58 The pastoral shortage and a pilgrim ethic88:10 Conclusion

In the second half of our post-Synod conversation, Zack Flipse and Jason move from how Synod 2026 felt to what it means for the work ahead. There's encouragement, but there are also some concerns. The biggest thread here is a worry both share: the CRC has an exciting church planting vision, but plant churches poorly and you can do damage to the denomination. Reformation isn't just about doing more; it's about doing it in a way that fits our ecclesiology. That's why Zack keeps half-joking that we need a study committee on ecclesiology, and why he's unembarrassed to say it: "I want to be part of a denomination that's doing theology." From there the conversation ranges widely. They name the three streams of the CRC—confessionalist, pietist, transformationalist—and make the case that the church is stronger for holding all three. They look ahead to the Christian nationalism study report, arguing the Dutch Reformed tradition is uniquely equipped to speak here, with Kuyper and Bavinck in our own lineage—so long as we actually do the theology rather than just point back to it. And they return to Jason's hobby horse since day one: a denomination is healthy when local churches are engaged, not when they outsource their convictions to Grand Rapids. Zack shares the kids' Heidelberg Catechism project he makes with his daughters—question one, "What gives you comfort? That I belong to Jesus"—because instead of complaining that the resource didn't exist, he decided to build it. Then Jason gives him the final word, and Zack delivers the line that names the whole vision: "Figure out what you can do to plant a church so that more people worship Jesus tomorrow than worship Him today. Let's plant some churches." Timestamps: 0:00 — Recap: naming gifts and raising up leaders 2:15 — Satellite options and the uneasiness around multi-site churches 4:01 — The ecclesiology study committee that didn't pass 5:07 — "I want to be part of a denomination that's doing theology" 6:39 — Planting churches well: the danger of doing it poorly 7:55 — Discouragements: pressure to skip process 9:22 — "We found out in 2022": differences in how we read Scripture 10:35 — The three minds: confessionalist, pietist, transformationalist 12:04 — The Christian nationalism study report and our tradition 12:39 — Why the Dutch Reformed are uniquely equipped: Kuyper and Bavinck 21:30 — A healthy denomination means local churches engaged 23:03 — An overture on categories for church membership 23:38 — Unified worship vs. faithful contextualization 26:51 — Zack's kids' Heidelberg Catechism on YouTube 30:48 — The Little Heidelberg Catechism and resourcing parents 31:44 — Final word: let's plant some churches Join and support us on Substack: https://themessyreformation.com/ Intro music by Matt Krotzer

This is an excerpt from Chapter 5 of “Biblical & Social Justice: What Is It?,”
entitled “A Nation Founded on Christian Principles?”      Listening to the stories of Christian nationalists, one might become persuaded that the United States descended from heaven. Any assertion that the United States was founded on Biblical and Christian principles must also concede that slavery was part and parcel of an unbiblical and unChristian version of so-called Biblical and Christian principles. It is not necessary to attribute the founding of the nation to the Bible or an organized Christian effort. Any review of the actual history of the founding of the United States, absent spiritualized narratives, shows that highly educated and brilliant men were responsible for debating, working, and creating the founding philosophies and documents. All the Framers were informed by their education, experiences, and faith. They were also informed by selfish motivations and economic interests.   It is noteworthy that the Framers decided not to include Scripture in the founding documents. This is consistent with their objective to avoid creating a nation controlled by the church or by religion. Below is a summary of the Framers: Almost all of the 55 Framers had taken part in the Revolution, with at least 29 having served in the Continental forces, most in positions of command. All but two or three had served in colonial or state government during their careers. The vast majority (about 75%) of the delegates were or had been members of the Confederation Congress, and many had been members of the Continental Congress during the Revolution. 25 had been state governors. More than half of the delegates had trained as lawyers (several had even been judges), although only about a quarter had practiced law as their principal means of business. Others were merchants, manufacturers, shippers, land speculators, bankers, or financiers. Several were physicians or small farmers, and one was a minister. Of the 25 who owned fellow humans, 16 depended on slave labor to run the plantations or other businesses that formed the mainstay of their income. Most of the delegates were landowners with substantial holdings, and most, except for Roger Sherman and William Few, were very comfortably wealthy. George Washington and Robert Morris were among the wealthiest men in the entire country. Much of that wealth was built through the unpaid labor of enslaved persons. Of the 55 Framers, only one was a Christian minister. Regarding the religious faith of the Framers: Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 28 were Anglicans, 21 were other Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists. A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical notably Jefferson. It is a reach of imagination and romanticism to believe the 55 Framers acted as a group of Christians in consultation with the Scriptures and prayer. The work of the Framers, as is the case with most good work, owes to the skill of the persons working, whether Christian or non-Christian. One very significant factor argues against the rosy Christian nationalist perspective about our nation's founding: SLAVERY. For many of us, celebrating our nation's founding as a triumph of the Bible and Christianity is offensive given the treatment and property status of our ancestors. To be sure, the formation of the United States, developing the governing documents, and organizing independent colonies was a triumph of human enterprise and self-governing. The telling of history cannot overlook owning, selling, and abusing humans in the service of other humans used to build their economy, was decidedly ungodly. It was not something Jesus would have done. The historic facts regarding the formation of the nation are compelling reading without the hyperbole of a Christian nationalist narrative. The facts are far more interesting than the fabrications.   -  

Corporate prayer and national repentance have shaped history, and Scripture like Jonah 3:10 reveals how God responds when people turn to Him together. Praying as a nation isn’t symbolic—it’s a powerful, biblical practice that invites God’s mercy, guidance, and restoration. This devotional highlights how God has consistently responded to unified, humble prayer—from the city of Nineveh to moments in American history. When people come together, set aside differences, and seek God collectively, it reflects dependence on Him rather than self-sufficiency. National prayer isn’t about politics or performance—it’s about hearts aligning with God, turning from sin, and trusting Him to lead, heal, and sustain a nation. Just as individuals are called to pray, communities and countries are invited to do the same. Highlights God responds to corporate prayer and genuine repentance Biblical examples show entire cities and nations turning to God together Unity in prayer reflects humility and dependence on God National prayer invites God’s mercy, healing, and direction Spiritual battles require spiritual responses—not just physical solutions Setting aside differences for prayer strengthens collective faith Do you want to listen ad-free? When you join Crosswalk Plus, you gain access to exclusive, in-depth Bible study guides, devotionals, sound biblical advice, and daily encouragement from trusted pastors and authors—resources designed to strengthen your faith and equip you to live it out boldly. PLUS ad free podcasts! Sign Up Today! Full Transcript Below: Why Praying As a Nation Matters to God By Lynette Kittle Bible Reading: “When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He relented and did not bring on them the destruction He had threatened.” - Jonah 3:10 As America celebrates 250 years as a nation, some ask, does it matter if our nation prays together on the National Day of Prayer? Does God even pay attention to or hear us when we pray corporately as a nation? The answer is “yes”: it matters to God, and we can be assured of this because the Bible provides plenty of evidence that He often calls us to corporate prayer for a city or a nation. Most of us are familiar with the well-known biblical passage 2 Chronicles 7:14, which says, “If My people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” As in the story of Jonah and the wicked city of Nineveh, God called for the entire city to pray and repent, and even the animals were included in the city’s prayer, fasting, and repentance. As Jonah 3:4-8 describes, God led an entire city to repentance through corporate prayer: “Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, ‘Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.’ The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh: ‘By the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from His fierce anger so that we will not perish.” In Jonah 3:10, we read of God’s gracious response to their corporate prayer: He relented rather than sending destruction. Likewise, looking back at America’s Founders, we see that they recognized the importance of corporate prayer and that establishing a nation’s future doesn’t just involve fighting a physical battle for victory, but also a spiritual one. They demonstrated this when they officially met and came together for the first time on September 7, 1774, as the Continental Congress of the United States, opening with prayer and the reading of Psalm 35 by Rev. Jacob Duché, which begins with, “Contend, Lord, with those who contend with me; fight against those who fight against me.” This was no easy feat, either, as the outspoken members had to set aside their denominational differences to pray together, uniting members who were Congregationalists, Anglicans, Quakers, Dutch Reformed, Baptists, Lutherans, Puritans, and Presbyterians, coming together to overlook their differences, joining in one accord, praying for a common goal. American Conservative radio talk-show host and writer, Dennis Prager, explains, “Ultimately, they wanted people to be free to practice their religion and relate to God in their own way. They all knew God is the source of liberty.” Providence Forum Executive Director Dr. Jerry Newcombe points out how historians find in George Washington’s writings and actions during the Revolutionary War that he relied heavily on prayer, believing that with the tremendous odds set against them, victory could only come with God’s help. As well, “The Great Awakening absolutely helped the cause of independence,” writes Newcombe. “Even before the Great Awakening, the ministers, especially the ones from New England, helped shape the thinking of the Colonists as to their God-given rights.” Christian historians believe the spread of “The Great Awakening” across the colonies greatly influenced and strengthened Patriot leaders leading up to the signing of the Declaration of Independence, during which prayer and fasting played a critical role in helping America establish its freedom. In Miracles in American History, author, historian, and speaker William J. Federer writes about the many national calls to prayer leading up to and throughout the formation of the United States of America. Intersecting Faith & Life:Are you planning to join our nation in praying for God’s divine guidance and protection over our country? If not, consider praying with millions of believers across our land who will be praying together during this year’s 250th Anniversary, National Day of Prayer. Further Reading:A Prayer to Take Part in Our Nation’s National Day of Prayer Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

In this episode, Dan Ragusa speaks about Letters from America (Reformed Forum). Between 1935 and 1940, Cornelius Van Til (1895–1987) wrote twenty-four letters from America for the Dutch magazine De Reformatie at the invitation of its editor Klaas Schilder (1890–1952). Daniel Ragusa's translation presents these letters in English for the first time. Letters from America opens a window into a critical moment in Reformed history—when orthodox and confessional Presbyterianism in America was under siege from both modernism and the rising influence of Barthianism, which Van Til labeled “the new modernism.” Ragusa introduces these letters by situating them within the broader relationship between the Dutch Reformed in the Netherlands and the orthodox Presbyterians in America—a relationship that reaches back to the seventeenth century. Van Til's wartime-like correspondences—written in the heat of theological conflict—offer a firsthand account of the spiritual and ecclesiastical upheavals of the era. Through Van Til's eyes, fixed steadfastly on his risen and reigning Lord, readers witness pivotal moments in American Presbyterian history, among them J. Gresham Machen's trial, deposition, and sudden death; the founding of Westminster Theological Seminary and the evangelistic work of its graduates; and the formation of the Presbyterian Church of America and its subsequent renaming as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. These letters bring to life a pivotal chapter in the defense and development of the Reformed faith that helps us to make sense of our present ecclesiastical and theological landscape. Watch on YouTube Chapters 00:00:07 Introduction 00:06:13 Upcoming Seminar in Raleigh, NC 00:09:29 Dr. Ragusa’s Introduction to Van Til’s Dutch Letters 00:20:54 Van Til’s Concern for the Church 00:29:16 Highlights of the Letters 00:36:19 Van Til’s Hope for the Church 00:42:38 The Afscheiding (Secession) of 1834 00:57:46 A Vision for the Future of the Church 01:06:05 Remaining Faithful Today 01:12:15 Conclusion Participants: Camden Bucey, Dan Ragusa

In this episode, Dan Ragusa speaks about Letters from America (Reformed Forum) Between 1935 and 1940, Cornelius Van Til (1895–1987) wrote twenty-four letters from America for the Dutch magazine De Reformatie at the invitation of its editor Klaas Schilder (1890–1952). Daniel Ragusa's translation presents these letters in English for the first time. Letters from America opens a window into a critical moment in Reformed history—when orthodox and confessional Presbyterianism in America was under siege from both modernism and the rising influence of Barthianism, which Van Til labeled "the new modernism." Ragusa introduces these letters by situating them within the broader relationship between the Dutch Reformed in the Netherlands and the orthodox Presbyterians in America—a relationship that reaches back to the seventeenth century. Van Til's wartime-like correspondences—written in the heat of theological conflict—offer a firsthand account of the spiritual and ecclesiastical upheavals of the era. Through Van Til's eyes, fixed steadfastly on his risen and reigning Lord, readers witness pivotal moments in American Presbyterian history, among them J. Gresham Machen's trial, deposition, and sudden death; the founding of Westminster Theological Seminary and the evangelistic work of its graduates; and the formation of the Presbyterian Church of America and its subsequent renaming as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Far more than museum pieces, these letters bring to life a pivotal chapter in the defense and development of the Reformed faith that helps us to make sense of our present ecclesiastical and theological landscape. Chapters 00:00:07 Introduction     00:06:13 Upcoming Seminar in Raleigh, NC         00:09:29 Dr. Ragusa's Introduction to Van Til's Dutch Letters 00:20:54 Van Til's Concern for the Church 00:29:16 Highlights of the Letters             00:36:19 Van Til's Hope for the Church             00:42:38 The Afscheiding (Secession) of 1834 00:57:46 A Vision for the Future of the Church 01:06:05 Remaining Faithful Today 01:12:15 Conclusion This is Christ the Center episode 947 (https://www.reformedforum.org/ctc947)

December in South Africa does not whisper in with cold nights and frosted windows. It arrives with heat, long afternoons, and bright skies that can still be blue well into the evening. In many homes, Christmas planning is not about keeping warm. It is about finding shade, keeping food cool, and deciding whether the family gathering will happen inside, outside, or both. The season is still Christmas, centered on the birth of Jesus Christ for many believers, but the setting changes how the day feels. South Africa is also a country of many cultures, languages, and church traditions. That means Christmas is not identical from one home to the next. Some families place church worship at the center of the day. Some treat Christmas mainly as a family and community holiday. Many do both. The shared thread is that Christmas remains a major moment on the calendar, and for many Christians, it is a time to hear the Nativity story again, sing carols, and give thanks for Christ's coming into the world. To understand Christmas in South Africa, it helps to look at the country's history and how Christianity grew across different communities. The earliest European settlement at the Cape began under the Dutch in the 1600s. The Dutch East India Company established a refreshment station at what is now Cape Town, and Dutch Reformed church life became part of that early colonial society. As settlement expanded, Christian worship was tied to the structures and priorities of colonial life. Churches were built, sermons were preached, and the church calendar became part of community timekeeping for many settlers... Podcast Notes: https://ancestralfindings.com/christmas-traditions-in-south-africa/ Ancestral Findings Podcast: https://ancestralfindings.com/podcast This Week's Free Genealogy Lookups: https://ancestralfindings.com/lookups Genealogy Giveaway: https://ancestralfindings.com/giveaway Genealogy eBooks: https://ancestralfindings.com/ebooks Follow Along: https://www.facebook.com/AncestralFindings https://www.instagram.com/ancestralfindings https://www.youtube.com/ancestralfindings Support Ancestral Findings: https://ancestralfindings.com/support https://ancestralfindings.com/paypal  #Genealogy #AncestralFindings #GenealogyClips

General elections held in South Africa on 26 May 1948 saw incumbent Prime Minister Jan Smuts, ousted by the National Party led by D. F. Malan, a Dutch Reformed cleric. Take a listen to DF Malan's speech broadcast on the SABC after his election victory that year.... OUTRO: That was National Party leader DF Malan in a 1948 speech broadcast by the SABC. That speech was the beginning of his pledge to implement a policy of strict racial segregation in all spheres of living in South Africa. The National party victory paved the way for the formalisation of apartheid.

In this episode of Cincy Reformed, Rev. Dr. J. Brandon Burks, pastor of Christ Reformed Church in Northern Kentucky, gives five reasons why he is Dutch Reformed.   For more information, see:   On the History of the Dutch Reformed Church: A Goodly Heritage: The Secession of 1834 and Its Impact on Reformed Churches in the Netherlands and North America https://www.heritagebooks.org/product... The Reformation of 1834 https://marsbooks.online/products/the... Dutch Calvinism in Modern America https://www.eerdmans.com/978080280009... "Integration, Disintegration, and Reintegration: A Preliminary History of the United Reformed Churches in North America," in Always Reforming: Essays in Honor of W. Robert Godfrey (ch. 13) https://www.amazon.com/Always-Reforme... Introducing the United Reformed Churches https://cincyreformed.podbean.com/e/i... The Reformed Dutch Influence upon American Presbyterianism https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ct... The Dutch Reformed in North America https://tabletalkmagazine.com/article...   On Covenant Theology: Sacred Bond: Covenant Theology Explored https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/sac... Covenant Theology: Biblical, Theological, and Historical Perspectives https://www.heritagebooks.org/product...   On the Sacraments: The Lord's Supper as the Sign and Meal of the New Covenant https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/lor... Covenantal Baptism https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/cov... What Do We Mean By Sacrament, Sign, And Seal? https://heidelblog.net/2018/07/what-d...   On the Ordinary Means of Grace: The Means of Grace and Sanctification: Part I https://www.wscal.edu/devotion/the-me... The Means of Grace and Sanctification: Part II https://www.wscal.edu/devotion/the-me... By His Spirit and Word: How Christ Builds His Church https://reformedfellowship.net/collec... One Major Difference Between The Reformed And The Evangelicals https://heidelblog.net/2022/12/one-ma...   On Liturgical Worship: The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship https://wipfandstock.com/978153269176... What Happens When We Worship https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/wha... Lost Keys: The Absolution in Reformed Liturgy https://www.academia.edu/35514237/Los... NOT HOLY BUT HELPFUL: A CASE FOR THE “EVANGELICAL FEAST DAYS” IN THE REFORMED TRADITION https://www.midamerica.edu/uploads/fi...   On the Confessions & Church Order: With Heart and Mouth: An Exposition of the Belgic Confession https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/wit... But for the Grace of God: An Exposition of the Canons of Dort https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/but... The Commentary of Dr. Zacharias Ursinus on the Heidelberg Catechism https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/the... Saving the Reformation: The Pastoral Theology of the Canons of Dort https://www.wtsbooks.com/products/sav... The Heidelberg Catechism: A Historical, Theological, and Pastoral Commentary https://lexhampress.com/product/36697... Crisis in the Reformed Churches https://heritagebooks.org/products/cr... Church Order https://www.urcna.org/church-order Commentary on the Church Order https://archive.org/details/churchord...

What happens when 400-year-old theological wisdom meets modern cultural challenges? Rev. Levi Berntson, Assistant Professor of Theology at Reformed Bible College and teaching elder in the Presbyterian Church in America, shares his journey from farm fields in North Dakota to theological academia. He discusses his work translating Dutch Reformed theologian Campegius Vitringa and explains how Reformed theology's core principles—high view of Scripture, justification by faith alone, and God's sovereignty—remain relevant in today's increasingly secular culture. The conversation explores the essential relationship between knowing God and loving God, how theological education benefits Christians in all vocations, not just ministry, and practical advice for Christians navigating complex cultural challenges.   https://reformationbiblecollege.org/   Parent Practicum events are hosted around the globe each year, inspiring and equipping parents to become better “everyday educators.” Combining the encouragement of community, integration of ideas, and practice with the classical skills, Parent Practicum is a once-a-year parent investment. Let us help you find a Parent Practicum event near you at www.ccpracticum.com

Brad Crowell and guest co-host Clare Solly reflect on insights from coach and advocate for high-performing women, Traci Peterson, in her interview about living without limiting labels. They share how to spot when you're relying on outside validation, why community matters, and how establishing your values shapes your goals and relationships. Whether you're a parent seeking real connections or a high achiever curious about personal growth, this conversation offers practical ways to Be It Till You See It.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Identifying when you rely on other people's approval.Shifting negative labels toward strengths and gifts.Why setting firm boundaries and sharing values fuels growth.Integrating self-reflection into daily routines and family life.Breaking old patterns by trusting yourself over social pressures.How “value checks” can transform relationships and personal goals.Episode References/Links:Cambodia February 2025 Retreat - https://lesleylogan.co/retreatsCambodia October 2025 Retreat Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.comAccessories Flashcards Waitlist - https://opc.me/flashcardwaitlistPilates Studio Growth Accelerator - https://prfit.biz/acceleratorClare Solly's Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@youwontbesollyClare Solly's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/youwontbesollyClare Solly's Website – https://claresolly.com If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS!Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox Be in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates MentorshipFREE Ditching Busy Webinar Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable Pilates Follow Us on Social Media:InstagramThe Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channelFacebookLinkedInThe OPC YouTube Channel Episode Transcript:Clare Solly 0:00  Yes, I am X-Y-Z and if you need like A-B-C in your life, then we're on the wrong side of the alphabet. Lesley Logan 0:08  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Brad Crowell 0:52  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap. Brad here again today with a very special guest stepping in for Lesley, we have Clare Solly. Yeah, welcome back, Clare. Clare is one of Lesley's best friends who has been both a guest on the pod, and she's actually hosted some of these recaps in the past. So those of you who have been listening for a long time, you probably know Clare. She's an author. She's an actor. She is Lesley's slingshot friend that goes all the way back to Episode 19. She lives in New York City, and she actually also you've been doing a whole lot of traveling this past year if I recall.Clare Solly 1:24  So much travel. Yeah, so much travel. I was so inspired. I think I've been to six countries this year, and then. Brad Crowell 1:30  That's crazy. Clare Solly 1:31  I'm actually in Connecticut right now I'm talking to you. Brad Crowell 1:33  Okay, okay. I was wondering. I was like this doesn't feel like New York. Love it. Today we are going to dig into the validating convo that Lesley had with Traci Peterson in our last episode. If you have not yet listened to that, feel free, pause this, go back, take a listen. Traci is a rock star, and she's like a super cool mom, a very inflective inflection. She's looking back at her own life, analyzing it, and seeing how she can sow into her daughter differently, and I just thought that was epic. So yeah, that's worth a listen. Go back and listen to that, and then come back here to join us. But before we get into the convo with Traci, why don't you tell us about today? Clare Solly 2:11  Today is January 16th and it is Natural, Natural? Brad Crowell 2:17  Yeah. Clare Solly 2:18  Natural and National Religious Freedom Day. National Religious Freedom Day is observed to promote the message of peace and acceptance. The day is to highlight the fact that everyone has a right to their own religious beliefs, and people can go worship however and whenever they want. And I thought this was actually very timely, because Traci talks about one of the first things she says, like right off the bat, is that you can celebrate whatever deity that supports you (inaudible) subscribes you and that's the word. Brad Crowell 2:48  I think it's also important to remind ourselves that, while there are, it's probably safe to say the majority of the United States, they subscribe to Christianity in some form. I don't think that we remember that our country wasn't founded by. Clare Solly 3:07  It was not. Brad Crowell 3:08  By a bunch of Christians like the Pilgrims came over. They were definitely were trying to get away, and they were being persecuted, and they were Christian. The founding fathers, however, they had mix of religions, including Christianity, but also Quaker, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed and even Roman Catholic. And so when they were setting our country up, it was with this really important idea of religious freedom, and I think that's healthy for us to remind ourselves that different people believe different things, and that's okay. Clare Solly 3:39  Yeah. Well and you mentioned in New York City, there's 72 different nations represented in this city, in my city, and that's fascinating. I can walk two, three blocks. It's like I'm traveling in a different country, because there are different things going on. And speaking of travel, aren't you guys traveling soon? Brad Crowell 3:56  Yeah, that's right. We're actually going to be going to Cambodia here in just a few weeks, I'm so excited. I'm already getting everything ready. We've been making sure we've got the place situated. Our team is already prepping things. We're making sure that the grounds are good to go, and Lesley and I get there a few days early. So end of February, we've got a retreat at our retreat space in Cambodia, and it might feel like. Clare Solly 4:19  Wish I could go.Brad Crowell 4:20  Well, you can, you still you can. You can. Hey and you, too, can join us. Yeah, believe it or not, you know, I know it's short notice, but there's still time if you're interested, to join us here in February. However, if that is like, clearly too soon, because it's all the way around the world and flying internationally can be challenging, join us in October. Okay? We're going to go back in October. It's going to be the middle of the month right now. There's an offer going on that you would never know about unless you were on the waitlist. So if you're not on the waitlist, just go to crowsnestretreats.com crowsnestretreats.com. Click on the October you'll see all the dates. You'll see everything that's going on there. If you have any questions about it, just reach out. It is a life changing experience. It's one of my favorite things to do. You've heard me talk about it for years on this podcast, and every single time I go, I still come back rejuvenated, just on fire to promote how epic it is over there, the people are beautiful. The food is incredible. The countryside is amazing. The temples of Angkor are, you know, it just makes me feel like a kid again every single time. It's amazing. The wonder, it's just insane. Well, we're still working hard on these accessories flash cards, right? So if y'all are familiar with the flash card decks that we put out for Pilates, to learn Pilates, the sixth one in the series is coming out. It's the accessories deck. It'll be coming out this summer. Back in November, we shot the, did all the photos back in LA and Lesley's been working super hard on the cards. In fact, she's really excited for us to be in Cambodia because we get to go a couple days early, and she literally is on the opposite side of the world from what our normal life. So no one interrupts her. She can take no phone calls, none of the things, and she always uses that time to sit down and just continue to really work on these cards. She's going to be writing and editing and doing all that kind of stuff. So if that's something that's interesting to you, go to opc.me/flashcardwaitlist flashcardwaitlist, and put yourself on the waitlist. We hook up the people on the waitlist. We don't ever announce publicly that we've got this epic presale offer that is going to happen, so only the people on the waitlist. So put yourself on there. Next up is, as you may recall, I've been hosting some webinars recently. I've got another one coming up. And if you are a fitness business owner or a Pilates studio owner or a home studio owner, or you're renting spaces studio, if you are working for yourself in some way, you want to come to this free webinar that I'm putting on. It's called the Pilates Studio Growth Accelerator. After coaching seven years, Lesley and I have been able to work with thousands of business owners just like you, and we boiled down three big secrets that are going to get you unstuck in your money. Clare Solly 6:56  Secrets?Brad Crowell 6:57  Yeah, secrets. In your money, unstuck in your client growth. How do you manage a team? How do you change your messaging? How do you connect with these clients that you need to do in order to grow your business? These are the things that we are talking about, and I want you to come join us. So go to prfit.biz/accelerator. That's profit without the O, dot biz slash accelerator. It's a free webinar. So before we get into this convo with Traci Peterson, we had an audience question to respond to. And if you were here last week, you can laugh again, because the audience is Lesley. And Lesley was literally asking Clare a question. So Claire, what are you reading next?Clare Solly 8:02  This is a hysterical question. I'm a bookstagrammer, so I'm a book influencer. You can (inaudible).Bookstagram. You know what I literally thought it was an entire platform called Bookstagram I was like, what? No, it's like a segment of Instagram.It's a corner of, yeah, it's a corner of Instagram. It's a corner of Tiktok. If you look up the hashtag (inaudible). Brad Crowell 8:24  Wait, it's TikTok? Clare Solly 8:24  Yeah, it's on TikTok too. We'll talk about books all the time. So I'm, you won't be Solly, you can. We'll probably put that somewhere if you want to find it, if you want to go see what books I'm reading. So I read all kinds of different fiction. My favorites are like romcoms and fantasy. I love anything with a dragon, although it's funny, when we get to the new year, I'm always like, okay, I want to get some gritty so I usually read, like, a good biography, or I read something more nonfiction-wise, I'm a tiny bit of a self help junkie, so every once in a while, I'm like, what's the new self-help book? Brene Brown, what do you got for me? Brad Crowell 8:56  Yeah, right? Clare Solly 8:57  But one of these trips that I went on this summer was with my mom, and we were driving, and we saw these old time like 40 year old, 50 year old truck stop places. You know, the movie (inaudible)Brad Crowell 9:08  Americana. Clare Solly 9:09  I'm totally Americana. So I'm sort of fascinated by all of this, and it's like percolating in the back of my brain to write something, whether it's a play or a book about these old time pull over by the side of the road and take a picture with the world's largest ball of twine. So I'm sort of.Brad Crowell 9:29  There's always these big ass chairs out there, like on the side of a freeway. Like, what are they doing?Clare Solly 9:34  Like, I went to Canada in May, and there was a giant moose statue, and of course, I had to take a picture with it. But like, why is there a giant moose just by the side of the road? Brad Crowell 9:44  That's funny. Clare Solly 9:45  I'm somewhat fascinated by these, like, old I don't know why I keep saying old timey, because they're not that old. But as a kid, we used to take roadtrips, and we would stop and like, the moccasin factory. So I'm doing some research, so to speak, on some of these old, older roadside attractions so (inaudible) maybe, maybe I think I'm envisioning more of a fictional story, like a generational grandpa made this thing, put his life fortune into it, and, like, run down and what do we do with it? You know, kind of. Brad Crowell 10:19  Oh, that, you know, what's really interesting, that's a really clever idea. Because then it could be like, the young generation who doesn't give a shit about it, and he's like, what do I do with this thing? But then it could be that the younger person comes to appreciate it, you know? Or they could be like, fuck it. I'm moving to the city. Clare Solly 10:38  Yeah. Well, I mean, and we're kind of all, like, we've kind of forgotten what this is. We've forgotten what these and some people don't even know what they are. Brad Crowell 10:46  Yeah, they don't even know what it is. They drive by without even understanding. That's interesting. You know, I think there's, like, a really a lot there of digging into this idea of nostalgia, yeah. That's a cool that could be a really cool premise, Clare.Clare Solly 11:03  Yeah, well, and then passing things down to generations, what have we experienced, or what have our parents or grandparents experienced that we can pass down through generations? So I think that that's important. Brad Crowell 11:14  That's cool, too, yeah, and the meaning, like how I had so much meaning to them, yeah. Well, very cool. I love that. I'm glad you shared that you are doing the Bookstagram, the book Tiktok, that one too, the book talk. Stick around, everybody. We'll be right back. We're going to dig into this amazing convo Lesley had with Traci Peterson. Alright, now let's talk about Traci Peterson. Traci is an international speaker, a board certified family nurse practitioner and founder of Elevate Wellness and Aesthetics. She is the creator of Women Lessons, a transformative program and podcast that empowers high-performing women and their daughters to overcome self-criticism, embrace their divine gifts and build unshakable confidence. She's a proud mother of three and Traci leads by example, inspiring others to break generational cycles of insecurity while living a purpose-driven life of faith, leadership and personal growth. It was a very refreshing convo. I really appreciated her mission. There was so much in there. What was one thing that you loved?  Clare Solly 12:15  One thing I said that she loved was to look inward and upward for your validation. She said, most of the time, we've had to learn things the hard way, and you're not finding your value or your worth from or your validation from any other person than yourself from your relationship with you and your Creator. I found that gorgeous, because yes, we are, especially women, we are in this moment where we are standing up for ourselves. We are finding our own identities, but we're looking outward for that, and we're still, we still are plagued with magazines and perfection being thrown at us, like from deodorant commercials to clothing ads to car ads, like, what should you drive if you're a Pilates instructor. What do you do if you're a performer and a writer? What do you need to wear? Who? What? How do you need to project yourself? So there's so many hows and whys, and really, at the end of the day, you have to live with yourself, and I am the only person that has to live with me, even if you are living with someone else, even if you are thriving with someone else. At the end of the day, you have to make yourself happy. There's nobody else. I mean, other people can add to your happiness, but they can't make you 100% happy. So I loved, loved that. Brad Crowell 13:33  Yeah, I think, you know, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about last week, about worthiness, validation, if we put that in the hands of the people around us, we're setting ourselves up for failure.Clare Solly 13:46  Yeah, you're giving yourself a measuring stick. You're giving other people power to have the measuring stick for your life. And you don't know which direction they're going to go, because you don't know what their goals are and your relationship with yourself is, the one that should be paramount should be the top. And I'm not saying ignore everyone else and only live your best life, but that's not the point of and it's not Traci's point either. But I think you have to be comfortable with yourself first. You know, it's kind of like that airplane mask saying, right? You have to put on your mask first and make sure you're okay, before you're any help to anyone else. And I know that's not quite what she was saying, but at the same time, it's still that that's valid. Brad Crowell 14:26  No, it's super relevant, you know. And I think also, too, she's talking about, you know, inward and upward instead of outward, instead of outward. So absolutely, I definitely agree. I was thinking about, how do you catch yourself in that moment of when you're when you're seeking validation from others, right? Clare Solly 14:47  Yeah, hard habit to break. Brad Crowell 14:50  Yeah, it really is, you know, because there's that sense of validation, I mean, I understand that. If we create a new product and no one buys it, that makes me feel like a failure. We fucked up. We clearly missed the mark. We didn't understand what people were looking for. I can understand that external, you know, looking external to we're talking about world views as well. If your worldview is, I am a salesperson, and you fail at selling like I was just talking about then. Clare Solly 15:21  Well, identity. Brad Crowell 15:22  Yeah, what do you do? What do you do with that? Does that mean life is over now? So when your foundation isn't built on those things, but instead is built internally, it's a lot more challenging to rock that kind of a person. And that's a good thing, that's a good thing. So, yeah, we'll, look, I really loved when she was talking about gifts. She said, listen, not everyone is going to understand your gifts or celebrate them. Those are not your people. And what she was talking about was this really heart wrenching story of her childhood where she was in her early teens, mid teens, and she walked up behind her friends, and her friends were basically talking shit on her, and she ended up going home, and she was telling her mom, and then her mom said something, probably not intentionally, but she said something that was really hurtful and that really rocked her. And she said what she had been told every day is, hey, remember who you are. And she's like, well, I'm loud. I am the person who is in control of the situation. I am all these things. And you know, in that sense, it's positive, but what she was getting the feedback from was that makes you bossy, and that makes you never paying attention, and that makes you this, that makes you this. So suddenly her strengths were being portrayed as weakness. And as a 14-year-old, how do you overcome that? You're going to change yourself so that you can fit in, so that you're no longer going to do those things, and that really shifts into people pleasing and all this other stuff, and that's really, really difficult. It was a sad story to hear. And she said her daughter came from home from school and said, hey, Mom, you know, I need to learn how to be a woman. And the things that her daughter said, well, I need to learn these things, that was like, the beginning of this mission that Traci is on, and that I felt was like so powerful that she had this moment of introspection. That was the word I was looking for at the beginning of the pod. Introspection, she had this moment of clarity, of like, oh, wow. Is this the example that I've set for my daughter, if these are the things that she thinks she needs?Clare Solly 17:22  And am I the model for that? I thought that was also very important. Yeah. Brad Crowell 17:26  Yeah, absolutely. And so I think it's so cool that she's come full circle now and she can say, hey, you know what the gifts that I was told are a problem when I was a teen? No, those are still gifts. But the people who are giving me that feedback, those are not my people.Clare Solly 17:44  Yeah, and I like, this story resonated so, so deeply with me, because I was like, wait, are we the same person? Because the same sort of situation happened with me. And again, it was, you know, a different topic, a different day. And I'm sure other people, other women, especially, have suffered. And I'm talking from because I'm a woman, and I've talked to many women who have been like, oh yeah, me too. So I can speak from that. And many of us, you know, we just get ripped to shreds. And I'm very tall. I'm six feet tall, and so I have always been the one that was automatically the leader and was put in charge of things. Brad Crowell 18:24  Sure. Clare Solly 18:24  And I learned to speak loud because I'm a big, tall person. And then I also grew up with two stepbrothers, so I had to be loud because there were two boys in my house. And I was known as bossy. And it's so funny, because once I heard that, I was like, when was the last time I heard bossy? And I kind of love now that we have this boss babe mentality, like we've turned it around, that word. Brad Crowell 18:49  Isn't that funny? Clare Solly 18:49  Yeah and what used to be such a negative word, and we're now embracing it. I loved, I loved this, which, you know, brings me back to the embracing your gifts. Yes, I am X-Y-Z and if you need like A-B-C in your life, then we're on the wrong side of the alphabet. I need a W and a Q and a T in there. Go be on your other side of the alphabet. And like we all are in this together, but I'm X-Y-Z, and this is what it is.Brad Crowell 19:14  That is something that we, especially as a child, have no perspective on. Our entire world is our class. Our entire world is our bus to and from school. Our entire world is our neighbors, because those are our friends that we play with. I have to imagine that shifted because of the internet, but still, even with the internet and the virtual it's generally still people that we know in real life that we're trying to connect with online. So as we shift change, grow older, we realize, oh, maybe I don't need to be in this community. Maybe this is my community over here. Or these are not my people. Those are my people. Or as business owners, we talk about this all the time to our clients who are building their own business. Maybe the people that we've been selling to are not the people we should be selling to because they're clearly not appreciating the thing, you know, but there are other people who will appreciate the thing. This is also another thing that I think is so important that fits right into this. When we lived in Los Angeles, there were something like 15, 18 Pilates studios within a two-mile radius, or three-mile radius. I can't remember what it was, Lesley and I looked it up at one point, and it was like kind of mind blowing. How was it possible that we all had clients? If we're all competing, we're all doing this the same thing. We're all teaching Pilates. Now, there's different forms of Pilates, but that's not my point. The point is from the person who doesn't know anything about Pilates they just see 18 Pilates studios, right? What sets you apart is you and how you're communicating and connecting with them. Do they vibe with you? Your vibe, them, you know, coming in the door and being like, I like this person. There's something innate there. There's something intuitive there, and that's really a thing that sets you apart. And that's why we're not for everybody, and that's why they might not be your people. You know those people who are critiquing your strengths instead of praising your strengths.Clare Solly 21:09  Yeah and I think it also goes both ways. If you are buying into something, or you're giving your time to something and you're just not connecting with it, let it go. Leave it for someone else. Leave the space for someone else. There are many other opportunities out there. We talked about books earlier, like, I have read the same genre of book. I say I read dragon books, and there are some dragon books that I just don't like, and there are dragon books that like blow me away, but there are other people that read them that just don't jive. So yeah, if you're not feeling it, if you're not feeling me, move on to something else. Your life is yours. Live it how you want to. Brad Crowell 21:45  I agree. I totally, totally agree. Stick around real quick, because when we get back, we're going to talk about those Be It Action Items that Traci and Lesley were talking about. So, we'll be right back. All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from Lesley's convo with Traci Peterson? She said hey, use the energy generator guide, especially if you ever feel overwhelmed burnt out as a mom, this guide, the energy generator guide, it walks you through the step by step. One, write down your top three values. Two, how to get to those in a very succinct manner. The guide helps you do that, and then you start calendaring those values. Have a conversation with your family, your spouse, your child, about your set of values. She talked about instilling this concept into her daughter in a way that allows your daughter to reflect, hey, is this serving me, this thing that I'm signed up for? Is it fitting with my values? And it allows you to also measure the feedback I think that you're getting from people, and be like, do these people agree with my values? Because if they don't agree with my values, then maybe I shouldn't be listening to their feedback. And I just thought that was super powerful to be teaching, you know, someone who's 12. Yeah, she said, sometimes we know what we value, but there's conversations that sometimes need to happen, explaining why, the why behind why you're doing it, so that you can get other people on board. So when you know your values too, you can also use that as a leader, you know, as the person who's the biggest personality in the room, like she is, I just, that's a, that's an incredible life lesson for someone to be passing on to their kids. And also, I think, I don't have any kids, so this is something that, like, Lesley and I would have a conversation about this kind of a thing, you know, do we need to do this? Or why are we doing this? Why are we still doing this? If it's something that we've been repeating over and over and over again? So yeah, that's pretty potent. Clare Solly 23:49  Yeah, I love that she's focused on moms and daughters. Love it. Love it. Love it. I'm a daughter of a mom and don't have children, so for me, I dropped in instead of mom, I dropped in person, and instead of children, spouse, etc. I dropped in support system because I have many, many friends. Brad Crowell 24:05  I really thought you were gonna say my pet. And I was like, yes.Clare Solly 24:09  I mean, you should calendar in your pet.Brad Crowell 24:12  And you'll have like, a one-on-one. Like, is this serving our values? Clare Solly 24:15  Yeah. What are we, good dog, good job. But yeah. I mean, I think this system is good for anyone. So I, you know if, even if you're not a mom, you don't have a daughter, go take a look at this book, because I think it's very supportive. My biggest takeaway, and again, I love to, love, love this because I'm daughter of a mom, she created with seven woman lessons to look inward and upward for your validation and the lessons were, remember who you are and whose you are. And I loved that whose. I loved that. Gratitude grounds you. Your own, remember your own divine gift. Be selfmore, not selfless. I'm gonna say that again, be selfmore, not selfless. You are more than your body. Amen. Community counts and number seven was living your potential. All of these are brilliant. Again, I think you can even substitute in, not yes, these are great things to teach to a younger person. It's a good teachable moment for yourself. And like these seven guidelines, I feel like I took a lot of notes when I was listening to this one. I was listening out to it fast, and so I had to go back and listen because I was taking and I think it's just great ways to, like, focus yourself. And again, we're at the New Year. It's not too late to start your resolution, or if you have one, or if you don't, or even just looking forward to, like, where do you want to go? And these are steps and guidelines to move you forward or move you and your team, you and your people forward. So loved it.Brad Crowell 25:45  I have a lot of awe for people who take the time to reflect back on their years of life and pull out the like distill concepts like this. This all comes back to that conversation she had with her daughter about, like, Mom, I need to learn how to be a woman. And from that came an entire platform, you know, where she is now able to not only support her own daughter, but support other moms. And now she's hosting retreats and for mom and daughter retreats, and doing all this amazing stuff that came back to this one moment of absolute clarity. And then now she's got this system that she put together. And, you know, high level, these things sound like, oh, okay, that's great. Gratitude grounds, be selfmore not selfless. That's cute, actually. I like that one. But there's still so much thought that went behind each one. Why are these the seven, there's clearly a reason, and I think it's worth digging in. So I love that. All right. Well, everyone, well, I'm Brad Crowell. Clare Solly 26:48  And I'm Lesley Logan, just kidding. I'm Clare Solly.Brad Crowell 26:52  Thank you so much for joining us today. If you want to hear more from Clare, go check her out at claresolly.com C-L-A-R-E-S-O-L-L-Y dot com. We are so grateful that you are here. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know by sending us a DM to the pod on IG, or leave us a comment on YouTube. We will definitely catch you on the next episode and in between here, Be It Till You See It. Clare Solly 27:14  Bye for now.Lesley Logan 27:16  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 27:58  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 28:03  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 28:08  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 28:15  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 28:18  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Do you know how much you matter to God? Do you understand how much you can help to bring value and reconciliation to others? The greatest movement on earth for freedom is the church of Jesus Christ. Or so it should be. For when individuals have their own personal experience of freedom in Christ, they become part of a community that is called to model liberation from deep divisions and old prejudices. Once we are reconciled with God as our father, we instantly come into a new family of brothers and sisters all equal before God.  In our current series on ‘Living in Freedom' from the book of Galatians we come to powerful declarations in Galatians 3:26-27. We have all become children of God through faith in Christ, by being baptised as identified with Christ and being clothed with the new nature of Christ. This means all of us have come into God's kingdom, not because of our own efforts, talents or religious works but because of our faith in Jesus who loved us unconditionally and gave His life's blood to save us from our sins and free us from Satan's dark rule.   We have all been born again into God's family the same way. We are all on the same level. And the consequences of this are literally revolutionary for our thinking and behaviour. For as Galatians 3:28 goes on to say ‘there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.'   Previous divisions are swept away by our new shared identity and faith in Christ. We have all become one in Christ Jesus. Through Jesus we are reconciled not only to God but also to one another. Man-made works-based religion does not accept this, which is why throughout history traditional churches have often re-enforced divisions and have in fact been leading agencies of oppression (e.g. the Dutch Reformed church and other denominations in apartheid South Africa; German churches supporting the Nazis in WWII).   However, both these examples have everything to do with human religion and nothing to do with the reconciling vision a true Christ centred church that the apostle Paul outlines in these verses. We see the main barriers that are overcome when we understand what it means to be united through Christ.   1. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between Jews and non-Jews (Galatians 3:28; Acts 10:34; Romans 11:11-36) 2. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down social and economic barriers (Acts 2:45; 1 Corinthians 12) 3. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between men and women (Acts 1:14; Acts 2:18; John 13:34-35)  Apply   1. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between Jews and non-Jews (Galatians 3:28). In the beginnings of the early church there was a strong majority Jewish presence. Jesus was a Jew. The first disciples were Jews. The church grew rapidly amongst the Jews in Jerusalem, but it was not long before the Holy Spirit was poured out on many non-Jews which totally astonished the Jews who witnessed it in the home of the Roman Centurion Cornelius. Peter himself had needed a complete reset of his previously Jewish mindset (Acts 10:34). So at first the church grew with Jews and non-Jews united in a common faith in Christ. They stood together against attempts by Jewish traditionalists to make non-Jewish believers follow Jewish customs, something that Paul opposes in this book of Galatians. However, such was the speed and the scale of the acceptance of the gospel amongst Greeks and other Gentiles, that the Jewish believers not only quickly became a minority but a persecuted minority. Soon the teaching emerged that the Jews were Christ killers and that the gospel, and the church had now replaced the Jews. Yet the Bible clearly teaches that God loves the Jewish people with an everlasting love and will fulfil all His promises towards them both regarding the Promised Land and their descendants. But their blessings and the blessings of Gentile believers will greatly increase when both Jewish and Gentile believers come into a new level of unity in their love of God and obedience to Christ (Romans 11:11-36). What this means practically is that there must not be any trace of antisemitism amongst Christians. We must not ignore or have any hostility towards the Jews. Rather Christians need to unconditionally honour and love the Jewish people wherever they are and be sure to develop fellowship with the increasing number of Messianic believers in Yeshua (Jesus). Our awakening to the importance of our Jewish brothers and sisters will be of great blessing to all concerned and bring great strength to the body of Christ on earth.   2. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down social and economic barriers. Slavery was commonly practised throughout the Roman Empire, but it was only in the community of believers that slaves and slave owners met and worshipped together as equals before God. Because of their shared faith in Christ, those from the lowest and the highest in society, both slaves and slave owners treated one another with mutual love and respect. Onesimus for example was a runaway slave of Philemon, who came to view him as ‘a dear brother.' Later in history it was the strong efforts of evangelical campaigners who helped abolish the transatlantic slave trade. Their famous image and motto was of an enslaved African, kneeling, manacled hands outstretched, with the title 'Am I not a man and a brother.' In the early church there was also a great concern to help the poor and vulnerable, especially by those who had the means to do so (Acts 2:45). The apostle's Paul's reference to neither slave nor free was in keeping with the teaching of James to give an equal welcome to rich and poor and not to give special attention to the rich. And as Paul outlined there can be no room for either inferiority or superiority in the church (1 Corinthians 12). No one is more special than another. True Christianity is no respecter of class and status. God has no favourites. We are all one in Christ.    3. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between men and women. Put simply there is no room for a macho culture or an ultra-feminist, anti-man culture in the kingdom of God. Men should never view themselves as first class, while they treat the women as second class. Equally women should not resent and despise men. Everyone must highly value both men and women as brothers and sisters. The Bible teaches that God created us in the image of God, both male and female. But because both were disobedient to God, the beautiful image that God had for them was ruined. They became divided and in tension with one another. But when Christ shed His blood, He gave the possibility of a new self-image for both men and women. Jesus of course restored the image of countless women who flocked to hear Him. In a male dominated culture, He broke patronising and oppressive traditions which treated women as inferior. He shocked a Samaritan woman by talking with her, something most Jewish men regarded as beneath them, especially as she was from a despised culture. He was protective of the woman taken in the act of adultery and showed her great love and respect when she was so vulnerable. So different was Jesus' reaction from all the other male chauvinistic religious leaders that He saved her from being stoned to death. Women saw in Jesus great compassion, kindness and wisdom and became His devoted followers. In the early church there was great unity between men and women (Acts 1:14; Acts 2:18). Today so many women have not been valued or treated well. But you can receive healing in your heart. You can be forgiven for your sins. You can have a new identity in Christ as a much-loved daughter of God. When the Holy Spirit comes to you, He makes you like a new person. Women need to know this. But also, many men need to know that they are loved and valued, despite their troubles and their sins. It's been said ‘most men lead lives of quiet desperation.' That's why both men and women need to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Both men and women can be changed. God can change the heart of the abusive husband, He can change the man who abandoned his family, He can heal the man who was himself mistreated. Through the work of the Holy Spirit men and women, fathers and daughters, sons and mothers, brothers and sisters can be reconciled and restored in their relationships. Instead of hurting the opposite sex, you can help them.    The church God is building is a revolutionary new society, the kingdom of heaven on earth, free from deep divisions and discrimination which have no place. The church is to be a family and community where all can know God's love and where all members are of equal value. So what does this mean? • We must all know that we are all equally loved and valued by God our Father • We must all respect one another as of equal value • We must all humble ourselves and repent of any form of discrimination, pride, judgement, bitterness in our hearts or any harsh words or behaviours • We must work together in our marriages, families and communities to build greater unity across all previous divisions and above all • We must truly love one another (John 13:34-35)  

Do you know how much you matter to God? Do you understand how much you can help to bring value and reconciliation to others? The greatest movement on earth for freedom is the church of Jesus Christ. Or so it should be. For when individuals have their own personal experience of freedom in Christ, they become part of a community that is called to model liberation from deep divisions and old prejudices. Once we are reconciled with God as our father, we instantly come into a new family of brothers and sisters all equal before God.  In our current series on ‘Living in Freedom' from the book of Galatians we come to powerful declarations in Galatians 3:26-27. We have all become children of God through faith in Christ, by being baptised as identified with Christ and being clothed with the new nature of Christ. This means all of us have come into God's kingdom, not because of our own efforts, talents or religious works but because of our faith in Jesus who loved us unconditionally and gave His life's blood to save us from our sins and free us from Satan's dark rule.   We have all been born again into God's family the same way. We are all on the same level. And the consequences of this are literally revolutionary for our thinking and behaviour. For as Galatians 3:28 goes on to say ‘there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.'   Previous divisions are swept away by our new shared identity and faith in Christ. We have all become one in Christ Jesus. Through Jesus we are reconciled not only to God but also to one another. Man-made works-based religion does not accept this, which is why throughout history traditional churches have often re-enforced divisions and have in fact been leading agencies of oppression (e.g. the Dutch Reformed church and other denominations in apartheid South Africa; German churches supporting the Nazis in WWII).   However, both these examples have everything to do with human religion and nothing to do with the reconciling vision a true Christ centred church that the apostle Paul outlines in these verses. We see the main barriers that are overcome when we understand what it means to be united through Christ.   1. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between Jews and non-Jews (Galatians 3:28; Acts 10:34; Romans 11:11-36) 2. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down social and economic barriers (Acts 2:45; 1 Corinthians 12) 3. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between men and women (Acts 1:14; Acts 2:18; John 13:34-35)  Apply   1. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between Jews and non-Jews (Galatians 3:28). In the beginnings of the early church there was a strong majority Jewish presence. Jesus was a Jew. The first disciples were Jews. The church grew rapidly amongst the Jews in Jerusalem, but it was not long before the Holy Spirit was poured out on many non-Jews which totally astonished the Jews who witnessed it in the home of the Roman Centurion Cornelius. Peter himself had needed a complete reset of his previously Jewish mindset (Acts 10:34). So at first the church grew with Jews and non-Jews united in a common faith in Christ. They stood together against attempts by Jewish traditionalists to make non-Jewish believers follow Jewish customs, something that Paul opposes in this book of Galatians. However, such was the speed and the scale of the acceptance of the gospel amongst Greeks and other Gentiles, that the Jewish believers not only quickly became a minority but a persecuted minority. Soon the teaching emerged that the Jews were Christ killers and that the gospel, and the church had now replaced the Jews. Yet the Bible clearly teaches that God loves the Jewish people with an everlasting love and will fulfil all His promises towards them both regarding the Promised Land and their descendants. But their blessings and the blessings of Gentile believers will greatly increase when both Jewish and Gentile believers come into a new level of unity in their love of God and obedience to Christ (Romans 11:11-36). What this means practically is that there must not be any trace of antisemitism amongst Christians. We must not ignore or have any hostility towards the Jews. Rather Christians need to unconditionally honour and love the Jewish people wherever they are and be sure to develop fellowship with the increasing number of Messianic believers in Yeshua (Jesus). Our awakening to the importance of our Jewish brothers and sisters will be of great blessing to all concerned and bring great strength to the body of Christ on earth.   2. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down social and economic barriers. Slavery was commonly practised throughout the Roman Empire, but it was only in the community of believers that slaves and slave owners met and worshipped together as equals before God. Because of their shared faith in Christ, those from the lowest and the highest in society, both slaves and slave owners treated one another with mutual love and respect. Onesimus for example was a runaway slave of Philemon, who came to view him as ‘a dear brother.' Later in history it was the strong efforts of evangelical campaigners who helped abolish the transatlantic slave trade. Their famous image and motto was of an enslaved African, kneeling, manacled hands outstretched, with the title 'Am I not a man and a brother.' In the early church there was also a great concern to help the poor and vulnerable, especially by those who had the means to do so (Acts 2:45). The apostle's Paul's reference to neither slave nor free was in keeping with the teaching of James to give an equal welcome to rich and poor and not to give special attention to the rich. And as Paul outlined there can be no room for either inferiority or superiority in the church (1 Corinthians 12). No one is more special than another. True Christianity is no respecter of class and status. God has no favourites. We are all one in Christ.    3. Shared faith in Jesus breaks down barriers between men and women. Put simply there is no room for a macho culture or an ultra-feminist, anti-man culture in the kingdom of God. Men should never view themselves as first class, while they treat the women as second class. Equally women should not resent and despise men. Everyone must highly value both men and women as brothers and sisters. The Bible teaches that God created us in the image of God, both male and female. But because both were disobedient to God, the beautiful image that God had for them was ruined. They became divided and in tension with one another. But when Christ shed His blood, He gave the possibility of a new self-image for both men and women. Jesus of course restored the image of countless women who flocked to hear Him. In a male dominated culture, He broke patronising and oppressive traditions which treated women as inferior. He shocked a Samaritan woman by talking with her, something most Jewish men regarded as beneath them, especially as she was from a despised culture. He was protective of the woman taken in the act of adultery and showed her great love and respect when she was so vulnerable. So different was Jesus' reaction from all the other male chauvinistic religious leaders that He saved her from being stoned to death. Women saw in Jesus great compassion, kindness and wisdom and became His devoted followers. In the early church there was great unity between men and women (Acts 1:14; Acts 2:18). Today so many women have not been valued or treated well. But you can receive healing in your heart. You can be forgiven for your sins. You can have a new identity in Christ as a much-loved daughter of God. When the Holy Spirit comes to you, He makes you like a new person. Women need to know this. But also, many men need to know that they are loved and valued, despite their troubles and their sins. It's been said ‘most men lead lives of quiet desperation.' That's why both men and women need to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Both men and women can be changed. God can change the heart of the abusive husband, He can change the man who abandoned his family, He can heal the man who was himself mistreated. Through the work of the Holy Spirit men and women, fathers and daughters, sons and mothers, brothers and sisters can be reconciled and restored in their relationships. Instead of hurting the opposite sex, you can help them.    The church God is building is a revolutionary new society, the kingdom of heaven on earth, free from deep divisions and discrimination which have no place. The church is to be a family and community where all can know God's love and where all members are of equal value. So what does this mean? • We must all know that we are all equally loved and valued by God our Father • We must all respect one another as of equal value • We must all humble ourselves and repent of any form of discrimination, pride, judgement, bitterness in our hearts or any harsh words or behaviours • We must work together in our marriages, families and communities to build greater unity across all previous divisions and above all • We must truly love one another (John 13:34-35)  

Dutch Reformer, Institution Founder & Michigan Entrepreneur Albertus Christiaan Van Raalte was born in 1811 in the Netherlands, was a pillar in the Afscheiding, sat under Groen van Prinsterer, was always running from the law, wrote letters to Abraham Kuyper to not over-work (which council Kuyper failed to apply), led the emigrations to Michigan, helped start Hope College and Western Seminary, and loved him so church polity. To talk about Van Raalte we are joined by the living-legend Robert Swierenga, author of “A. C. Van Raalte: Pastor by Vocation, Entrepreneur by Necessity.” A stagnant economy, premodern agriculture, and high population growth had led to a sense of hopelessness. Then Enlightenment rationalism and political discontent cast the Dutch Reformed Church adrift in a sea of doubt and uncertainty. This set the stage for the welcome by Dutch liberals of invading French “liberators” in 1795 and the formation of the Batavian Republic, which disestablished the public church. French dominance increased under Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte who established the Kingdom of Holland under his brother Louis in 1804 and made the nation a French vassal state in 1810. The new regime introduced the French Civil Code and modernized an antiquated bureaucracy, bringing with it new taxes and intrusive regulations, such as the first national census, universal military conscription, a civil registry, and other constraints. Young Albertus received the best education the Netherlands could offer in the nineteenth century—parochial day school, Athenaeum, and university. He became an itinerant pastor who planted congregations in the largely rural province of Overijssel. When desperate poverty drove thousands of these Separatists to emigrate to America in the 1840s, Van Raalte himself decided to emigrate and lead his followers to safer pastures. Had he remained in the homeland, as did all but a few of his colleagues, his life would have been comfortable and in familiar surroundings, within his subculture and its routines. Emigrating overseas never entered his mind until midlife, but doing so lifted him to a dynamic role in a period of change in both countries, with different speeds, directions, opportunities, and threats. The two major Dutch Reformed colonies in the 1840s were those of A. C. Van Raalte in Holland, Michigan, and Rev. Hendrik (Henry) P. Scholte in Pella, Iowa. Van Raalte and Scholte, erstwhile friends in the Netherlands, faced a role reversal in America, and they became rivals, competing for settlers and influence. Pella had the early advantage because Scholte had brought almost nine hundred followers, compared to Van Raalte's fewer than one hundred. But Scholte's religious independence and refusal to join the American branch of the Reformed Church, as Van Raalte did, hurt his recruitment efforts. The poverty-stricken Holland colony was isolated and twenty miles from the nearest market towns. But thanks to its harbor, wood products shipped to insatiable Chicago markets paid for provisions and supplies that were brought back on return sailings. Holland's harbor offered easy sailing to Chicago and other Great Lake ports as far away as Buffalo and even New York City via the Erie Canal. Kalamazoo, fifty-five miles southeast, provided a direct rail connection to New York. Pella in south-central Iowa lay fifty miles from Des Moines, the capitol and nearest large city, and it had no railroad service for twenty years. As a result, it remained for generations a small, market town that serviced farms within twenty miles. Holland lay astride the two most productive agricultural counties in Michigan—Ottawa and Allegan. The Holland area today has five or six times the population of the Pella area. And Holland's diverse industrial economy far surpasses that of Iowa's agricultural economy. In the rivalry with Scholte, Van Raalte's accomplishments became the embodiment of what Scholte had hoped to achieve.

Rev. Dr. Daniel Ragusa, pastor of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City joins Camden Bucey for this thoughtful episode of Christ the Center. Together, they explore the profound impact of Dutch Reformed theology on American Presbyterianism, focusing on key historical moments and figures, including Cornelius Van Til and Gerhardus Vos. Ragusa shares insights from his recent work translating and editing Van Til's “Dutch Letters” and discusses the lasting influence of Dutch Reformed thought on the formation of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). This conversation examines the connections between the nineteenth-century Dutch secession movements, particularly the Afscheiding of 1834, and their influence on the theological and ecclesiastical landscape in America. With a focus on confessional integrity and the challenges posed by modernity, Ragusa highlights the ongoing relevance of these historical developments for Reformed theology today. Listeners will also hear about exciting new publications from Reformed Forum, including Ragusa's forthcoming book, The Joyful Fellowship, which traces the theme of “God with us” throughout Scripture. This episode provides a rich, historical, and theological exploration of the Dutch Reformed legacy in American Presbyterianism. Chapters 00:00:07 Introduction 00:04:16 The Joyful Fellowship 00:13:08 Van Til's Dutch Letters 00:21:43 First Impressions of the Letters 00:29:09 The Afscheiding of 1834 00:47:42 The Doleantie 00:50:10 Holland-Mania 00:54:51 Vos as a Connecting Figure 01:06:30 American Presbyterian Influence on the Dutch Reformed 01:11:57 A Struggle for Faithfulness to Confessional Identity 01:21:12 Teaching at MARS 01:23:24 Conclusion

Rev. Dr. Daniel Ragusa, pastor of Messiah's Reformed Fellowship in New York City joins Camden Bucey for this thoughtful episode of Christ the Center. Together, they explore the profound impact of Dutch Reformed theology on American Presbyterianism, focusing on key historical moments and figures, including Cornelius Van Til and Gerhardus Vos. Ragusa shares insights from his recent work translating and editing Van Til’s “Dutch Letters” and discusses the lasting influence of Dutch Reformed thought on the formation of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). This conversation examines the connections between the nineteenth-century Dutch secession movements, particularly the Afscheiding of 1834, and their influence on the theological and ecclesiastical landscape in America. With a focus on confessional integrity and the challenges posed by modernity, Ragusa highlights the ongoing relevance of these historical developments for Reformed theology today. Listeners will also hear about exciting new publications from Reformed Forum, including Ragusa’s forthcoming book, The Joyful Fellowship, which traces the theme of “God with us” throughout Scripture. This episode provides a rich, historical, and theological exploration of the Dutch Reformed legacy in American Presbyterianism. Watch on YouTube or Vimeo. Chapters 00:00:07 Introduction 00:04:16 The Joyful Fellowship 00:13:08 Van Til’s Dutch Letters 00:21:43 First Impressions of the Letters 00:29:09 The Afscheiding of 1834 00:47:42 The Doleantie 00:50:10 Holland-Mania 00:54:51 Vos as a Connecting Figure 01:06:30 American Presbyterian Influence on the Dutch Reformed 01:11:57 A Struggle for Faithfulness to Confessional Identity 01:21:12 Teaching at MARS 01:23:24 Conclusion Participants: Camden Bucey, Dan Ragusa

Award-winning author and editor Donald McKim joins James and Jonathan to discuss his book, Daily Devotions with Herman Bavinck. Bavinck was a significant Reformed scholar and theologian whose popularity has increased in recent years. Though Bavinck did not leave behind a body of devotional material, Don has written eighty-four brief devotional readings accompanied by Scripture exploring Bavinck's thoughts to deepen readers' understanding and faith. Donald McKim's book is doing for Bavinck what earlier Dutch Reformed theologians had done for themselves, which is step you into that practical application, and there's nothing unnatural about it. It feels like exactly the next step that you should take. – James Dolezal  With Bavinck, McKim understands that Christian belief is to be joined with Christian living, and he has given us an excellent practical application of Bavinck's theology. We're giving away two copies of Donald McKim's book courtesy of P&R Publishing. Register here for an opportunity to win.   Show Notes: Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck in 4 volumes: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/reformed-dogmatics-4-volumes/291090 Other books by Donald McKim: https://www.prpbooks.com/authors/donald-k-mckim

This month’s podcast was recorded live at the first installment of the Noise Reduction series. Its a collaborative improvisation with synthesist David Mason. The performance took place in the rear chapel space of Prophecy Hall, a former Dutch Reformed church in Beacon, NY. Its an interesting space to create in, and I hope to do more … Continue reading Errant Space Podcast 111: Noise Reduction →

Bow Tie Dialogues is a show dedicated to learning about denominations from those who actually practice them. Keith Foskey is the host and he has interviewed pastors from the PCA, LCMS, ACNA, CREC, IFB and Church of God. Today, he welcomes three pastors from the Christian Reformed Church (also known as the Dutch Reformed). Jason Ruis Church Website: https://faithchurchbd.com/ Personal Substack: https://jasonruis.substack.com/ The Messy Reformation Substack: https://themessyreformation.com/ Aaron Vriesman Church website: www.nbcrc.org YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/pastorvr... Substack: https://aaronvriesman.substack.com/ Tyler Wagenmaker Church website: www.beaverdamcrc.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU4q... Substack: https://threeformspodcast.substack.com If you are interested in getting the smallest Bible available on the market, which can be used for all kinds of purposes, visit TinyBibles.com and if you buy, use the coupon code Keith for a discount. Buy our shirts and hats: https://yourcalvinist.creator-spring.com Visit us at KeithFoskey.com If you need a great website, check out fellowshipstudios.com SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OUR SHOW SUPPORTERS!!! Support the Show: buymeacoffee.com/Yourcalvinist Contributors: Duane Hankinator Mary Williams Luca Eickoff @zedek73 David S Rockey Jay Ben J Several “Someones” Monthly Supporters: Amber Sumner Frank e herb Phil Deb Horton

Dr. N. Gray Sutanto helped plant Covenant City Church in Jakarta, Indonesia, through a theology study group. Gray now serves as the assistant professor of systematic theology at Reformed Theological Seminary, Washington D.C. campus. Gray focused his PhD work on the 19thcentury Dutch Reformed theologian, Herman Bavinck and you will discover in this interview that his research interests are broad. Gray's article we discuss from The Keller Center can be found HERE (https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jakarta-western-judgments/) and a more full Bio can be found HERE (https://rts.edu/people/dr-n-gray-sutanto/), including a list of his publications. You will be inspired by this episode!

Let's be real. Family worship is a little known subject among evangelicals. It is more known and practiced among Dutch Reformed denominations. Anecdotally speaking, I've known and worked closely with Presbyterians in my life, and although it's a known subject, it isn't practiced as much as you may think. Same goes for Reformed Baptists. But overall, this situation is changing as more resources are produced. Family worship is having a renaissance of sorts.Welcome to Urban Puritano. On today's episode, we scratch the surface on a valuable resource for family worship, the Family Worship Bible Guide, published by Reformation Heritage Books. Gird your loins and stay tuned. #LayingTheFoundation#TransformYourHome

Happy Monday, friends. Ty is back with a new episode for you. Mark den Hollander one of the professors from Covenant Canadian Reformed Teacher's College joined us to chat about the history of the Dutch Reformed Church and the particularly the Secession that took place. We chat about why this history is important, how we can learn from it and how we can be encouraged looking to the future.  0:00 - Introduction 7:00 - Why teach and learn history? 10:20 - Reformation to the Secession 17:00 - Ethnic Ties and Reformed Denominations 21:27 - Synod of Dort 31:00 - The Secession 42:00 - 1886 - 1939 1:04:00 - How did the CanRef come to be? 1:13:00 - Going forward A BIG THANKS TO THIS EPISODE'S SPONSOR, JORDAN FROM A THOUSAND ELSEWHERE! WE APPRECIATE YOU HELPING US MAKE THIS CONVERSATION POSSIBLE. BE SURE TO CHECK THEM OUT AT WWW.ATHOUSANDELSEWHERE.CA To keep up with the podcast, check out our website: https://www.realtalkpodcast.ca/ Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for updates, clips, and more!  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReformedRealTalk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reformedrealtalk/ We'd love to hear from you. Please send us your questions, comments, or other feedback at reformedrealtalk@gmail.com. Thanks for listening! If you liked what you heard, please share this podcast with your family and friends!

The Christian Reformed Church (CRC), a quasi-mainline denomination originating in the Dutch Reformed tradition, had been trending in a more liberal direction. It approved of ordaining women and its Calvin University took a more progressive tack. But recently the denomination has pivoted to the right on sexuality issues. What dynamics have been at play in the CRC? What does the future hold for this denomination? CRC pastor and Youtuber Paul VanderKlay joins to discuss.Paul VanderKlay's Youtube Channel:   https://www.youtube.com/@PaulVanderKlay  Sign up for my newsletter: https://www.aaronrenn.com/

This week I had the pleasure of interviewing the wonderful Moses Bratrud on his journey to Lutheranism from Dutch Reformed theology. We had such a great time talking about Reformed Theology vs Lutheran Theology, Anglicanism, Pentecostalism, and the various ways in which we impact theology and it impacts us.I hope you enjoy this episode!Follow Moses!Moses' BlogMoses' TwitterMinnesota Family CouncilSupport the show

Send me a text! This week I had the pleasure of interviewing the wonderful Moses Bratrud on his journey to Lutheranism from Dutch Reformed theology.  We had such a great time talking about Reformed Theology vs Lutheran Theology, Anglicanism, Pentecostalism, and the various ways in which we impact theology and it impacts us. I hope you enjoy this episode! Follow Moses! Moses' Blog Moses' Twitter Minnesota Family Council Support the Show. Join The Community! Check Out The Store! Donate to Support the Show Subscribe to the Newsletter Check Us Out Everywhere We Are ➡️ https://www.lutherananswers.com/ ➡️ https://www.x.com/LutheranAnswers➡️ https://www.tiktok.com/LutheranAnswers

Apologetics Live episode 191 Evangelists Jon Neifert and Brad Tower will be joining Dr Anthony R. Silvestro, Jr., to talk about the upcoming Tulip Time Outreach in Pella, Iowa, on May 4-6, 2023! The show will be open to Q&A throughout! Please join us to discuss evangelism and apologetics, as well as learn the Dutch Reformed history of Pella, Iowa and the amazing opportunity to attend the evangelism & apologetics training and evangelism outreach as more than 250,000 people come from all over the world to attend this festival!   Resources mentioned: Pella Tulip Time Gospel Outreach 2023 Choosing a Tract: 9 Questions to Ask This podcast is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and all our resources Listen to other podcasts on the Christian Podcast Community Support Striving for Eternity Give us your feedback, email us info@StrivingForEternity.com Write us a review and tell us how we are doing. Fill out our suvery about this show. Sponsors: Logos Bible Software MyPillow or call (800) 873-0176 and use promo SFE

Apologetics Live episode 191 Evangelists Jon Neifert and Brad Tower will be joining Dr Anthony R. Silvestro, Jr., to talk about the upcoming Tulip Time Outreach in Pella, Iowa, on May 4-6, 2023! The show will be open to Q&A throughout! Please join us to discuss evangelism and apologetics, as well as learn the Dutch Reformed history of Pella, Iowa and the amazing opportunity to attend the evangelism & apologetics training and evangelism outreach as more than 250,000 people come from all over the world to attend this festival!   Resources mentioned: Pella Tulip Time Gospel Outreach 2023 Choosing a Tract: 9 Questions to Ask This podcast is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and all our resources Listen to other podcasts on the Christian Podcast Community Support Striving for Eternity Give us your feedback, email us info@StrivingForEternity.com Write us a review and tell us how we are doing. Fill out our suvery about this show. Sponsors: Logos Bible Software MyPillow or call (800) 873-0176 and use promo SFE

United Reformed Churches in North America minister Luke Gossett tells us about his hope to plant a URCNA congregation in his home state of Alabama where none has ever before existed. Along the way, we learned a lot about the distinctives of the URCNA specifically and the Dutch Reformed more generally. Learn more about the planting initiative here: https://www.birminghamurc.org/ Watch the show: https://youtu.be/lRuDfvLET0M

On this episode of the Parker's Pensées Podcast, I'm joined by Dr. Lane Tipton to discuss his new book, The Trinitarian Theology of Cornelius Van Til. We Discuss the doctrine of the Trinity in general, Van Til's understanding of the Trinity, Dutch Reformed thelogy, Old Princeton, and more. We also get into Calvin's doctrine of Autotheos and Van Til's understanding of perichoresis. If you don't know those words, no worries, all will be explained! Grab the book here to support my podcast: https://amzn.to/3LwNfJw If you like this podcast, then support it on Patreon for $3, $5 or more a month. Any amount helps, and for $5 you get a Parker's Pensées sticker and instant access to all the episode as I record them instead of waiting for their release date. Check it out here: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/parkers_pensees If you want to give a one-time gift, you can give at my Paypal: https://paypal.me/ParkersPensees?locale.x=en_US Check out my merchandise at my Teespring store: https://teespring.com/stores/parkers-penses-merch Come talk with the Pensées community on Discord: dsc.gg/parkerspensees Sub to my Substack to read my thoughts on my episodes: https://parknotes.substack.com/ Check out my blog posts: https://parkersettecase.com/ Check out my Parker's Pensées YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYbTRurpFP5q4TpDD_P2JDA Check out my other YouTube channel on my frogs and turtles: https://www.youtube.com/c/ParkerSettecase Check me out on Twitter: https://twitter.com/trendsettercase Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parkers_pensees/ Time Is Running by MusicLFiles Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/6203-time-is-running License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/parkers-pensees/support

In this episode of The Open Door, Professor Callum Scott on being a Catholic Philosopher in South Africa (November 2, 2022)This week (November 2nd) on The Open Door we'll discuss Thomism and…South Africa! Context counts, so we'll also be talking about Catholicism in South Africa. We're looking forward to our first virtual visit to this beautiful and fascinating country. Our welcome and special guest is Prof. Callum Scott. He teaches in the Department of Philosophy & Practical and Systematic Theology at the University of South Africa. Scott is a permanent deacon in the Archdiocese of Pretoria.Among the questions we'll ask are the following. Please don't hesitate to suggest others!1. Prof. Scott, Callum if we may, could you please tell us a bit about yourself and your background?2. How did you come to be a philosopher? You have a special interest in the philosophy of science. What led you to Thomism?3. You've recently returned from a major international Thomistic conference. Were you able to share a distinctive African perspective?4. Can you tell us about higher education in South Africa?5. How fares the Catholic Church in South Africa? Is there a synod in progress?6. How would you compare the Catholics of South Africa with the Catholics of Nigeria?7. Is the Dutch Reformed tradition still playing an active role in your country? Are its representatives open to a Catholic and Reformed dialogue?8. Political corruption, it seems, knows no borders. Can politically active Catholics challenge corruption in your country?9. Does Thomism have distinctive resources to offer contemporary politics?10. Where do you see yourself a decade from now?

This is episode 90 and it is 1823. The small coastal harbour town of Port Elizabeth had been founded but it still had no proper jetties, no lighthouse, nor a breakwater. Passengers were forced to disembark precariously through the angry surf. The place was described as an “ugly, dirty, ill-scented, ill-built hamlet…” Resembling some said, the worse fishing villages on the English coast. It also was known as disorderly, drunken and a place of immorality. Further up the coast, two separate towns had been founded on the Kowie River, settlers on the west bank named their little hamlet Port Kowie, and those on the east called their equally small hamlet Port Frances after Governor Lord Charles Somerset's daughter in law. These days we call it Port Alfred. Many settlers who remained in Albany were now trading deep into the interior beyond the boundaries of the colony and legally too. They bartered goods with the amaXhosa, cloth, iron utensils, beads, buttons and copper were exchanged for cattle hides, ivory and gum often at the weekly market held in Grahamstown. Monitoring all of this were the men of the Cape Regiment, the Khoekhoe or the Cape Mounted Rifles as they became known. Lord Charles wanted his eldest son Henry to take over as OC - nothing like a military command to accelerate your place in life he thought. As you know, Henry was not the sharpest tool in the Somerset shed and furthermore, he could not be a commander of a regiment without attaining the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and he couldn't be promoted immediately because Lieutenant colonel Fraser was in charge. However, Fraser was seriously ill and died in October 1823. Henry of course, was appointed commander although without the necessary rank. Nepotism, corruption, poor governance. Take your pick. By now as you know, Thomas Pringle, that Scots lad who'd been an editor in the UK then travelled to his farm in the Bruintjieshoogte with other Scots, had taken up his appointment at the SA Public Library. A man of letters, Pringle then invited a fellow Scot called John Fairbairn to help found a school to promote English language and literature in South Africa. It was to be known as the Classical and Commercial Academy, a bit like studying towards an MBA but partly in Latin. They were joined by a Dutch Reformed clergyman and educator called Abraham Faure. By January 1823 that Pringle and Faure applied for permission to publish a monthly periodical and promised to avoid “the discussion of all controversial or agitating topics…” Somerset refused the request, then wrote secretly to the Secretary of State Earl of Bathurst, calling Pringle an “arrant dissenter…” But the need for an independent voice in South Africa was obvious and George Greig who was to launch the SA Commercial Advertiser knew a good business idea when he saw one.

This is episode 90 and it is 1823. The small coastal harbour town of Port Elizabeth had been founded but it still had no proper jetties, no lighthouse, nor a breakwater. Passengers were forced to disembark precariously through the angry surf. The place was described as an “ugly, dirty, ill-scented, ill-built hamlet…” Resembling some said, the worse fishing villages on the English coast. It also was known as disorderly, drunken and a place of immorality. Further up the coast, two separate towns had been founded on the Kowie River, settlers on the west bank named their little hamlet Port Kowie, and those on the east called their equally small hamlet Port Frances after Governor Lord Charles Somerset's daughter in law. These days we call it Port Alfred. Many settlers who remained in Albany were now trading deep into the interior beyond the boundaries of the colony and legally too. They bartered goods with the amaXhosa, cloth, iron utensils, beads, buttons and copper were exchanged for cattle hides, ivory and gum often at the weekly market held in Grahamstown. Monitoring all of this were the men of the Cape Regiment, the Khoekhoe or the Cape Mounted Rifles as they became known. Lord Charles wanted his eldest son Henry to take over as OC - nothing like a military command to accelerate your place in life he thought. As you know, Henry was not the sharpest tool in the Somerset shed and furthermore, he could not be a commander of a regiment without attaining the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and he couldn't be promoted immediately because Lieutenant colonel Fraser was in charge. However, Fraser was seriously ill and died in October 1823. Henry of course, was appointed commander although without the necessary rank. Nepotism, corruption, poor governance. Take your pick. By now as you know, Thomas Pringle, that Scots lad who'd been an editor in the UK then travelled to his farm in the Bruintjieshoogte with other Scots, had taken up his appointment at the SA Public Library. A man of letters, Pringle then invited a fellow Scot called John Fairbairn to help found a school to promote English language and literature in South Africa. It was to be known as the Classical and Commercial Academy, a bit like studying towards an MBA but partly in Latin. They were joined by a Dutch Reformed clergyman and educator called Abraham Faure. By January 1823 that Pringle and Faure applied for permission to publish a monthly periodical and promised to avoid “the discussion of all controversial or agitating topics…” Somerset refused the request, then wrote secretly to the Secretary of State Earl of Bathurst, calling Pringle an “arrant dissenter…” But the need for an independent voice in South Africa was obvious and George Greig who was to launch the SA Commercial Advertiser knew a good business idea when he saw one.

A presentation titled “Theology's ‘Gardner': Yielding the Fruit of Bavinck's Theological Encyclopedia” by Dr. Gregory Parker. This talk was delivered at the 2022 National Convivium hosted at Davenant House in Landrum, SC. Dr. Parker received his Ph.D. in systematic theology at the University of Edinburgh under the supervision of James Eglinton. He joined the Cairn University, School of Divinity faculty in 2022. His dissertation focuses on the relationship between the dogmatics and ethics of the 19th century Dutch Reformed theologian, Herman Bavinck. He also played lacrosse for the University of Edinburgh. He teaches courses in systematic theology at both the undergraduate and graduate levels, including Triune God, Narrative of Redemption, and Life and Calling.

Drs. Alan Strange and Cornelis Venema speak about the practice of catechetical preaching from a practical as well as historical perspective. While the practice is more common within the Dutch Reformed tradition, Dr. Strange also provides a case for Presbyterians to engage in preaching using the Westminster Standards as aids. Regardless of where you may land on the particular role of secondary standards in organizing the preaching of the Word, this conversation is useful and instructive for considering how the church may best instruct her members. Dr. Cornelis Venema is Professor of Doctrinal Studies and President of Mid-America Reformed Seminary in Dyer, Indiana. Dr. Alan Strange is Professor of Church History, Registrar, and Theological Librarian of Mid-America Reformed Seminary. Links Mid-America Round Table Podcast Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction00:02:02 Homiletics and Catechetical Instruction00:15:34 Preaching from the Catechism00:22:30 Preaching through the Westminster Larger Catechism00:42:19 Reading the Catechisms during the Worship Service00:51:09 Keeping Catechetical Preaching Fresh01:05:09 Conclusion Participants: Alan Strange, Camden Bucey, Cornelis Venema

Drs. Alan Strange and Cornelis Venema speak about the practice of catechetical preaching both from a practical as well as historical perspective. While the practice is more common within the Dutch Reformed tradition, Dr. Strange also provides a case for Presbyterians to engage in preaching using the Westminster Standards as aids. Regardless of where you may land on the particular role of secondary standards in organizing the preaching of the Word, this conversation useful and instructive for considering how the church may best instruct her members. Dr. Cornelis Venema is Professor of Doctrinal Studies and President of Mid-America Reformed Seminary in Dyer, Indiana. Dr. Alan Strange is Professor of Church History, Registrar, and Theological Librarian of Mid-America Reformed Seminary in Dyer, Indiana.

Drs. Alan Strange and Cornelis Venema speak about the practice of catechetical preaching both from a practical as well as historical perspective. While the practice is more common within the Dutch Reformed tradition, Dr. Strange also provides a case for Presbyterians to engage in preaching using the Westminster Standards as aids. Regardless of where you […]

In this episode, Steve Mathonnet-VanderWell interviews Dr. James Bratt, professor emeritus of history at Calvin University and frequent writer for the Reformed Journal Blog. Jim describes himself as both a “Pharisee of Pharisees” and a “loyal opposition” in the CRC world. He discusses his early life, his typology of Dutch Reformed traditions in America, and his perspectives on the interactions of Christian intellectual history and American politics. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/reformed-journal/message

Pastor Rand joins Darnell & Joel to discuss ethnic churches and more specifically Dutch Reformed churches. Their conversation addresses the following: Origins of the Dutch reformed church in Canada What makes a church reformed? Church polity Are denominations Biblical? Benefits and limitations of ethnic specific churches https://linktr.ee/sixcentsreport Support us at buymeacoffee.com/SixCentsReport Produced by Madden Mitchell Media Song from our intro: Sho Baraka - Pedantic Related Episodes: 6CR #96 References: Levels of Doctrine Pastor Rand contact info: https://www.missionupsidedown.com/ Give us your two cents via: Facebook Twitter sixcentsreport@gmail.com

This week I had the pleasure of interviewing the wonderful Moses Bratrud on his journey to Lutheranism from Dutch Reformed theology.We had such a great time talking about Reformed Theology vs Lutheran Theology, Anglicanism, Pentecostalism, and the various ways in which we impact theology and it impacts us.I hope you enjoy this episode!Follow Moses!May 7  - religious doubt in victorian era presentation at the Davenant InstituteMoses' BlogMoses' TwitterMinnesota Family CouncilEVER wonder what I use to record all this stuff?Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Record Your Podcast With Riverside! Samson Q2U MicrophoneInnoGear Boom ArmSupport the show

Bridging the gap through music, Bree Gordon joins the podcast today to discuss her experiences with music therapy, trauma informed care, and how to recognize what your body is telling you.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co . And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:How we stop living in survival modeShowing up even when you don't know your next stepYour body will tell you what's going onThe connection of traumaBeing trauma informed The heart of the Mindful Mentor PodcastSitting and listening to othersEpisode References/Links:Mindful Mentor PodcastIG @mindfulmentorbreeFB @mindfulmentorbreeWebsite mindfulbree.comEmail: info@mindfulmentorbree.comNon-Profit: House of LovezillionairesThe Gift of FearThe Body Keeps the Score ... by Dr. Bessel van der KolkGuest Bio:Bree is an experienced speaker on trauma and connection. She has worked with dozens of universities, non-profit organizations and for profit businesses from around the United States including the University of Miami, the Alzheimer's Association and the Stoneman Douglas community in Parkland, Florida. Bree has been featured in multiple national media platforms including NPR, BroadwayWorld and VeryWell. She also hosts a weekly podcast, The Mindful Mentor, focused on building a culture of self-awareness and empathy. With a degree and board certification in Music Therapy and 13 years experience working in medical and community settings, Bree is highly respected for her clinical work as well as her success in creating jobs in the field of creative arts therapies. Bree has served as the co-owner and Director of Creative Arts Therapies of the Palm Beaches since 2012, staffing and developing clinical music and art therapy programs for over 100 organizations throughout South Florida.  OPC Flashcards:OPC Flashcards are on AmazonOPC Flashcards are on our site  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.  ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable Pilates Social MediaInstagramFacebookTik TokLinkedIn Episode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:00  Hello, Be It Till You See It, listener. What's up babe? How are you? Ah, I can't wait for you to talk like hear this woman's words. And then I have homework for you, I want you to go listen to her Mindful Mentor podcast and listen to the episode we were on in the binge out. She's really an amazing, unique person. And, you know, definitely a be it till you see it like person, didn't even know she's beening until she see it, saw it until she was but um, it's there's some great tips in here. And also we talked a lot about the trauma informed and activating and how words and sounds and things can be activating. And so I definitely, I'm excited for you to kind of hear that because I think we talked about trauma, we talk about trauma informed, but sometimes don't always know what that means. So, I hope that this really helps give you some more information. She also gave some great resources for those who are interested in being a little bit more trauma informed in your careers because there's different trauma informed trainings for different industries. And so definitely check that out. There's some great books that she talked about. I have read - The Body Keeps a Score, I'm gonna reread it actually, because I read it so long ago. I think it's time for a reread. Anyways, I'm gonna let Bree tell you who she is, and really dive into how she got to where she is. But I just want to say, just a huge thank you for you being here with your earbuds and on your walk, taking the time to let other people share their stories with you and inspire you. And one thing a little spoiler alert in there is that like it's not easy, right? It's not easy what you're doing. It's not even, it's not even easy to say, "Yeah, you don't have to turn on this podcast right now." That's actually a choice. It's hard to do. Like you're, you're weighing the options of what other things you should be doing or binging out on. Or maybe you should be doing an extra hour of work. And so I just want to say thank you for making a choice to get a little dose of inspiration and hear a tip on how you can be it till you see it. So without further ado, I found out that she's a fellow Scott woman like myself, (Lesley laughs) right before we went on. So my team had to edit out a little pre intro intro. But here she is Bree Gordon.Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Alright, Be It listeners. I have Bree Gordon here. She is a fellow Scottish family member, although I don't know maybe related somehow. We just discovered this five seconds ago that we're both Scottish. Um, anyways, Bree and I met because I put myself out there and I said, "I want to do a podcast swap." And I think it's important that you hear that because I could have totally been rejected, I could have totally heard crickets. And she's like, "Hey, I want to do that with you. And I only have 7pm, Eastern Time. (Lesley laughs) And we'll get into that." So Bree, welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Please tell everyone who you are. And also maybe why we only can talk at 7pm on a Tuesday.Bree Gordon 3:41  Happy to cover all those things. First of all, thank you so much Lesley for having me on for reaching out. That is just how all this beauty is getting created right now. I feel like since we are getting back into the real world, I guess. But after coming out of a year and a half or close to two years of having to make connections in a new way like social media. I appreciate so much that you did reach out. For those with exceptional hearing, you may be already able to identify why the 7pm Eastern Standard Time is my talk time. That is the beautiful vocal jazz stylings of my seven month old that you hear in the background. So just going to go ahead and call that out for the beginning. But again, so thankful to be here. Again, my name is Bree Gordon, hence the Scottish connection we were able to tell with our last names there. I am a few different things. I am a Board Certified Music Therapist by day I guess as they say. I am a mother as we covered. I am a podcaster as well, public speaker and I have in the last two years started developing ... a new LLC that helps with wellness programs as well. So my background as a Board Certified Music Therapist, and working in medical music therapy for the last 13 years, has just connected me to the realization, one, what I already knew is that music truly is not to be cliche, but truly is a universal language that can connect all of us. But in also working with so many different people from such different walks of life, different cultures, languages, ages, all the things that could divide us been able to find so many things that connect us, and so many commonalities within the human experience, which is why I have kind of expanded my view not just from music therapy, but just to wellness in general, specifically, recovering from trauma. So, I am located in South Florida, originally from Toronto, Canada, grew up in upstate New York ... (Lesley: Oh, my goodness) move down to South Florida, basically just moving on and down that East Coast, you know. (Lesley laughs) Moving on down, that's not how the song goes. Lesley Logan 5:55  ... to go all the way down to the East side, right? You're on the East side. (Lesley laughs) (Bree: Through the East side) Oh, my gosh. (Bree: Exactly) So you know, what I love about meeting so many guests is, and maybe it's just because like attracts like, but no one is just doing like one thing. Like there's a couple of things that we're doing. I think it's because like no one is just anything. What, but I think we have to go into music therapy for trauma. Can you explain kind of what that even what does a day in that look like? And how did you get started doing that? Like, did you know that you wanted to be when you grew up?Bree Gordon 6:27  No... Well, there's a couple ways to answer that. I knew that I wanted to do something in music. And I knew that I was not called to be a teacher in this life. (Bree laughs) So that forced me to kind of explore other options. So back up, all the way to being a young kiddo. My mom and I moved to the States, when I was three, my mom worked as a CNA in a nursing home. And being a single parent, and I was only I am an only child, there was not always a lot of childcare options. So like days that I didn't have, you know, daycare or school, I'd be going to work with mom. And so mom tells me I don't have clear memories of this exactly. But being in the forum of the nursing home as a three year old, holding court and (Lesley laughs) just singing in my little heart out. And I remember my grandma took me to a high school production of Fiddler on the Roof. And I'll just be honest, I come from where I grew up in New York, you know, it was a part Scottish part Dutch, like group Dutch Reformed and everybody around me was a Dutch farmer. And everybody looks the same and talk the same and worship the same. And so Fiddler on the Roof was a very odd choice for the local high school to do but it was my first Broadway show. And I remember looking at it and saying, "I want that. I want to do what they're doing. I want to be that free on a stage. I want to step into a new role and be a new person." At like five, I (Lesley: Yeah) was just like connected with that. So we had these home videos of me doing if I were rich man in my front yard, like (Lesley laughs) this is how I would entertain. Well, I didn't realize truly that this was such an exceptional experience to be so comfortable with people outside of your generation, outside of your own life experience until later in life. So when I started to look up options for careers in music, and realize music therapy was one of them. I had been working for my mom and my mom was working in homecare private home duty at the time, so would help her out. So I knew I wanted to help people and I knew I want to be in music. So I went to school for music therapy and everybody wanted to be with the kids. Everyone wanted to do early education, you know, sit on the floor with the kids and play music and I did not again feel called to that. So I didn't realize how special it was that I already knew how to bridge this gap between myself and someone different than me through music. So, I started doing all the senior placements and I did like geriatric psych psychology, locked unit, hospice care all these things, eventually ended up moving to South Florida for an internship in hospice care, and worked in that field for seven years. And then went into private practice and started working in Oncology and with seniors with alzheimer's, dementia, all these things. Fast forward to 2018 when we had the tragic shooting here in Parkland (Lesley: Yeah) at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. And, so I volunteered my time and got a team together to join our art therapists in the area to just create a space for (Lesley: Yeah) this community. They had like two, 10 days to two weeks off of school. So for the students, the parents, siblings, all that to come and have a space to just be, to just create, to feel safe, to feel supported. And out of that I was hired to work with the students for the next few years. So I've done a lot of programming. Through that work ...Lesley Logan 9:50  That's ... I'm so sorry to interrupt. (Bree: Yeah) That's interesting because I was looking over your bio, and I'm like, "How did you end up with trauma?" And it's because trauma happened in your like backyard.Bree Gordon 10:01  Literally. I mean, people say that right? It's our backyard. This was before we even knew what was going on. My staff was calling me, "Hey, I can't get to the site, the roads are blocked, I see all these flashing lights, I see all these media vans, I see helicopters. I can't get to, you know, the afterschool program for kiddos with on the autism spectrum that's just down the road." So before we even knew what had happened, before we would turn on the television, (Lesley: Yeah) I'm getting you know, calls from my staff, "There's something's big going on. I can't get to work." So once I started doing this work and studying more about trauma informed music therapy, and basically what that means is that trauma informed is a lens in which you treat through. So knowing that sounds that images, that references, that things can be activating. And I purposely use activating instead of triggering, because I work so much with gun violence survivors, we try to avoid any language, I... again just want to mention the seven month old in the background ... (Lesley laughs) just in case you missed the top of this podcast, that's what's happening in the background. (Lesley laughs) And so anything that you are bringing in which music lyrics can be very activating, right? The sounds of drums being (Lesley: Yeah) hidden or activating, so having that lens in the education before walking into a room is really important. So through that work, I realized, well, I've been doing that all along. My seniors in hospice care and my memory care groups, are World War II, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, active war, active duty ward veterans, Holocaust survivors, again, I live in South Florida, we have the largest amount of hospice, (I'm sorry) Holocaust survivors in our community, then I think anywhere other than New York City, for the United States. I work in addiction recovery, a lot of early childhood or adverse childhood experiences, that are traumatic that they have survived. So this whole time in my career, I really have been focused on working with individuals who survived a trauma. Well, not only that, but then expand the worldview even further, which has led me into my newer project of The Mindful Mentor is, that's all of us. (Lesley: Yeah) That's not just someone I'm going to meet in a medical setting, that is all of us. And with COVID, we have all experienced collective trauma.Lesley Logan 12:22  Oh, I mean, that's and that's interesting thing I have, I have my therapist coming into my fitness business coaching group. At the time that we're recording this, it's like in two weeks. So when you hear this, everyone will have happened. But the reason I'm bringing her in this time is to actually talk about how we have to stop living in survival mode, because COVID caused every business owner, cause every person to go into survival mode, that's a great mode. But it's like a fifth gear, you're not supposed to live in it, like it's not good. On the engine, it's not good on the mechanic. It's not good, right? Like you would never do that your car. But I see all these business owners, I see all these women, especially like in this survival mode. And that is also traumatic to like, it's you, you just don't see things happening in the same way that they are when you're in that mode versus when you're not in that mode. So I have her coming in. But you're you made this excellent point that we've had this collective trauma. And I guess, like, I'm ... for the first time doing a training that is a trauma informed training, it's a trauma informed breathwork training. It's actually really interesting for me, because, you know, you hear these things, you can be activating towards people, or using the word that's commonly used, like you could trigger someone. And it makes a lot of people go, "Well, then what do I do and how do I do this? And then how do I act?" And then it's like, "Oh, how do I be it till I see it? If I, like good actually accidently do this?" And so it's like, how, how do you, you know, you went into the space in 2018. Without really like, it's like you had ever worked with a situation like that in the past? So how did you do that? And how, and like, is there any, maybe there's a way we can all like, learn something through your experience? When when it comes to like, how do you act in a place that you don't know how to act or how to do or how to heal?Bree Gordon 14:06  That's, that's a really great question. And actually, so fitting to your show that I didn't even think about beforehand, because truly, that's what I was doing. I didn't even know I've never heard of trauma informed at that point, to be honest with you. So, I was being it till I saw it, and that in that moment. And what that led to was actually partnering up eventually with our music therapist, who's been working with the children in Sandy Hook, and then Connecticut. And then we were able to give trainings at our national conferences. But before I got to that point where I'm helping others, I'm thinking, "Gosh, this is totally," and again, at the moment, I really did think fresh and new and I've never done anything like this before. So I had to just show up, right? First of all, I had to know if I was the right person, if I truly could not handle this. It was there was a transference issue, meaning that there was something coming up that was too strong within myself, that I was not able to be present for the students, then I needed to find another therapist that could do that. So there is a point where you're not always going to be the best fit for every situation ... (Lesley: Right) But and this one, it did feel comfortable for me to be involved in. I was able to set not set aside my feelings, but just kind of honor what it was coming up in me and then address that in the appropriate place, which meant going to trauma informed therapy for myself, honestly, to be aware of what was coming up with me. Working in this, is is heavy, right? These are students who have survived an extremely traumatic event, they are wanting to walk through it with you through song lyric, through a discussion, whatever way that comes up through music, whatever way it is. And as the therapist you need to know how to be present, first and foremost, and second, know how to handle what's coming up for you. So I was really fortunate that I had a team of therapists that I worked with. So we were meeting for supervision like one to two hours every day, that was a total luxury. I've never had that anywhere else in my career, that I had that much time built into a contractor, to a salary that I can debrief and process. So ...Lesley Logan 16:13  So you yourself, were going to a session to debrief and process what your day was like. Bree Gordon 16:20  Right. So when we were doing what started as a summer camp. So we're working with the students like 30 hours a week through the summer. The summer camp started in June, the shooting happened in February. (Lesley: Yeah) So this was, this was not PTSD. This was T, (Lesley: Yeah) capital T happening in the moment. So all of us therapists would get together at the end of the day and would process through. And then by the end of those six weeks, I started to realize that I was the only one of them not in therapy for myself. So then I went to get that additional work done. And I'll tell you what, it's amazing, be it till you see it kind of show up again, being present first and foremost, being supported, knowing that you have a support network around you. But then you really do you have to be accountable for that. Because for me, second summer, third summer comes around, I get to the end of the summer, and I'm just not feeling good. And and this was I started out this is a pattern every time I get to the end of the summer, my back is totally out of whack. I think we talked about this on (Lesley: Yeah) my show too, your body will let you know (Lesley: Yeah) what's up. Right? So, I had thought, "Well, I went to therapy and I talked about this. I process to this. I'm good." (Lesley: Yeah) Right? ...Lesley Logan 17:33  I feel like anyone listens like, "Oh, yeah, I've been there." And like, "I did that I already. Checked, checked" (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 17:37  I did ... No, no, I took care of that, like I already did that. So not feeling good, not feeling good. Suddenly, I'm like walking with a cane. Not not terribly normal for someone in their early 30s. I go into see a doctor, and they said, "Where you in a car accident? You have three herniated discs." (Lesley: What?) I'm like, "Nope, I hosted or I lead a trauma camp." And I didn't get any help for myself through it. And now this is my third year doing it. So I know better, right? But I have to stay accountable for it. So I'm not sure, I feel like that does kind of lead into the be it till you see it because clearly I am not it yet. I'm still learning (Lesley: Yeah) so gotta show up and constantly keep learning freeze up, the advocating freeze up, listening to your body. And the when you are doing that you are becoming what those students need. You are becoming what that community needs because you are also taking care of yourself.Lesley Logan 18:32  Yeah. Well, and I think like, you know, because I always say like, "Take messy action." It doesn't mean like be irrational or erratic or crazy, unplanned like, it sounds like you had never done this before. But you actually did the work to go, "Am I the right person for this? Is my team, the right people for this?" What do we have to do to get through this, we can support them and not actually make it worse for them? But then you also just did it. And and and then you learned while doing to the end of the summer, you're like, "Wow, learn something about myself. I have to add one more thing to this list of things to do." And I think I think a lot of people get stuck on that because if they don't know, the roadmap, they don't know all the parts, they haven't seen all the way through, then they don't actually get started. And especially with something like this. Like, I do think a lot of people have seen something bad happens in their community or they're like, "Oh my gosh, I want to know how to I want to help but I don't know how to help." And I guess like, you know you in that moment, there was something in your head that was like, "I think we can help here." And I guess do do is it something you can pinpoint or is it just a feeling?Bree Gordon 19:37  It's a good question, because I like I started this conversation saying, "I didn't want to work with kids." Right? (Lesley: Yeah) (Lesley laughs) (Lesley: You also had a kid ...) I didn't know at the time ... (Lesley: Yeah) What what an absolute joy of having a child could be. Now I know. But at the ... I just I want to work with my seniors the rest of my life. I just I love working with, you know, neurodegenerative diseases, which sounds like a really weird thing to say. But I do, I love bringing joy and feelings of success and positivity and accomplishment to those that have cognitive decline. So this was an opportunity that I was like actively seeking ever before. And I would usually refer it out to other people in the community that I thought would be better fits. I almost wonder if it was a strong personal connection. I'm a trauma survivor, as a child myself. Part of that is complicated grief, losing my dad at a young age, it wasn't to anything violent as this would be. But I believe that there is a connection within trauma, (Lesley: Yeah) that if you have experienced something you have experienced, especially as a child, the feeling of being completely out of control of the world happening around you. (Lesley: Yeah) And just this constant yearning for grounding. (Lesley: Yeah) And for a strengthened a sense of self and for connection and identified with all of those things. Now, obviously, I'm not going to say have been through what those kids have been through, I haven't. But I could connect with that feeling of needing those things. So I do think it was something in myself and again, I go back to listening to yourself, (Lesley: Listening to your ... ) listening to your body, your mind, your heart, your intuition, your gut. It's I mean, I don't know about everybody here. I don't know everyone's gut intimately, obviously. (Lesley and Bree laughs) But mine has led me to some amazing opportunities that on paper, I would have said no to.Lesley Logan 21:44  Oh, I mean, you're there's this great book called The Gift of Fear. It is who is it, who is it -Gavin de Becker. And actually, just because the world is so small, I actually taught a woman how to teach Pilates who might be listening to this podcast whose husband worked works with Gavin de Becker's company, it's a security firm, and he was in trauma when he was a child. And he, his life experience led him to actually be able to see and understand when people are actively going to do what they threatened to do, or when they're just a little bit off. Right? Or a lot off, but not actually going to act on it. So he's worked with the FBI and the CIA, all the things, right. And he has a security firm. He wrote a book called The Gift of Fear. And his whole thing is, every single one of us, our gut is telling us what is happening? Do we feel safe in this moment? Is this person a good person? Should we trust this person? Like it literally is, it has these receptors. It so amazing, but our brain is like, "Oh, you're being judgmental or you don't know like, he seems like a really nice person. He's got nice clothes on, like, all these things." Oh, you know, all this stuff and our logic, our brain is like, trying to talk us out of out of our gut is saying, but like, logic will fail you most of the time where your gut is pretty on and it's not and it's okay to go with that. So the book is really dense and it's really interesting. And I highly recommend it, especially my ladies listening to this because it really is informative as far as like, what it means to be like protective of yourself, and also like a little over protective, like, "What it does that mean?" Right? And then you also made me think of the book like, "What Happened to You?" which is a some amazing research they've done on trauma on like, infants, you know, we think that babies don't have memories before three o'clock, three o'clock, three, three years old, three o'clock, before ... 3pm. They have no ... (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 23:31   My baby did not to remember any of this becuase here it's still 2:30 ... (Lesley: Yeah) (Lesley laughs) So, it's fine.Lesley Logan 23:35  3 years old, but the reality is, is that they have found and they study people long enough to know that if even under in three, your first three months, you've had something traumatic, it really does affect, you're life. Bree Gordon 23:45  Your birth experience (Lesley: Oh) is traumatic. (Lesley: Yeah) I mean, it's ... in addition to all this other stuff, I'm working through an online training and play therapy. And it's neuro relational, child centered play therapy, and a lot of it is on trauma. And the memories that they find these children even reenacting, like their birth experience, even at four or five years old. (Lesley: Whoa) Yeah, there was one story in the training where one of the child came in the room. And one of the things about play therapy, particularly this model. Is you don't intervene. I mean, you have to keep it safe in the room, but you're not guiding the play. It's truly the child is expressing themselves through the place, you don't want to really parameters around it. And so this child found in like a beanbag chair, an opening in just a small hole and found their way into the beanbag chair, and then became very emotional upon interacting or, sorry, playing out, coming out of the beanbag chair. And what she realized when talking to the parent was that there was a traumatic birth experience. Now this is like a four or five year old ...Lesley Logan 24:54  That's so crazy, that's amazing and crazy. It's like ...Bree Gordon 24:56  It's incredible, right? (Lesley: Yeah) And I don't think I'll ever forget that story because you know, as a clinician, but now also, as a parent, I'm thinking you can go crazy thinking about, "Are you gonna remember this. Did I just ruin you?" Like, "How much am I going to pay for therapy for this?" (Lesley laughs)Lesley Logan 25:10  You know, I think I think today's parents who are very aware of therapy are very much aware of like, "Oh my God, how much is this bill gonna cost? Like, I just help them." Whereas like I don't know. You and I are a lot the same age. Like, "I don't think our parents worry about therapy. I'm being honest." (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 25:25  The first time, my stepson came home and he won't listen to this. So we're fine. But he comes home. And, and I nursing my baby. And you know, he's 18. Right? And the poor kid, didn't ask for any of this, he's super sweet. He's like our babysitter, extraordinary and they have the best relationship. But he walks in the house, and I'm just like, "I can't even afford what I'm gonna have to pay for this later in life. I'm so sorry. (Lesley laughs) Like, this is (Lesley: Yeah) just your life now. We just (Lesley: Yeah) my boobs out. I apologize." (Lesley and Bree laughs)Lesley Logan 25:52  Oh, you know, what I do find though, it's like, men with like, younger siblings or sisters are a lot easier around women as they're older women who, especially if they end up marrying a woman, I think everything's a little less weird, (Lesley laughs) more normal. So, I think it's, you know, I think it's good for him. (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 26:09  For the sensitive that comes along with it, for sure.Lesley Logan 26:11  Yeah. But also, you know, like, it's, um, I, when I see people freak out, this has nothing to do this podcast ... But like, some of the angry anger fights me the most, is when I see those people who get upset at someone breastfeeding in public. But then they're the same due to oogle and I'll go over girl wearing a too low cut of a top. And it's like, I just, I'm really starting to I'm really confused. You don't like it when they're out? But you do, like ... (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 26:36  Also, did you just not get cow's milk in your coffee, cafe latte, (Lesley: Yeah) whatever. I mean, like, I know, and I didn't get it until I was in this experience. I was just kind of like, "Oh, whatever. I didn't really have an opinion about it." And I'm like, "No, this is actually the most (Lesley: Yeah) natural normal thing." Anyway that's a whole other podcast. Lesley Logan 26:51  ... whole another another thing. So okay, I want to talk a bit about, I want to definitely get into what led you into your own podcast, but before then, for people who are intrigued by trauma, trauma therapy, being trauma informed? Is it as easy as googling like trauma informed trainings near me? Or (Lesley laughs) is there like, is there a book list or a site or place on your site where people can get this information? I just want to make sure that people who are intrigued by being trauma informed, because it does, it does. It is freeing when you actually understand it a bit more than when you just hear like, "Oh, your actions could trigger something or activate something." (Bree: Right) Like, you know, especially for the ... let me just explain we Pilates instructors listen to this a lot. And they touch people. (Bree: Yeah) And when they hear (Bree: Yeah) like, "Oh, make sure you don't, you could, if you don't touch .." If you touch them in a class that wasn't expecting it that could be activating or triggering. Like, it makes them go, "Am I allowed to touch? I'm allowed to do?" And I I have found in doing this trauma informed training, even though it's a breathwork training, that I have a lot more since I have awareness around it, I also have a little bit more freedom. I'm like, "What is acceptable and what isn't? And how do you work with that?" And so where can people go who are intrigued by this and ready to learn more?Bree Gordon 28:01  For sure. First of all, awareness and informed implies curiosity. Right? And the best place to begin your curiosity is just asking your patient or your client, "Are you comfortable with this? How does this make you feel? Can I do this?" I think I am going to give you some great resources in addition to that, but really, each person is unique, their trauma experience is unique, they're going to have different responses to it. So I would say treating as a very individualistic experience, is is just a great way to start before you can read the books and do the trainings and all of that. As far as books go - The Absolute Bible on Trauma Informed Care is the Body Keeps the Score ... by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, the Dutch Dutch name ... (Lesley laughs) fabulous resource, if you're going back to Heritage's today, (Lesley: Yeah) that is just a great place to start. And it it connects to so much of what you've already been talking about with the focus on touch and on breath. And on knowing your own body because it's true, it is stored just in my and that's why I tell you my story about herniating the discs in my back because I could go and like I said, I've traveled all over the country talking about this. And yet that is still happening to me. So we can read all the resources in the world being aware of your own body because it's true that our body does keep the score of what we have experienced, what our emotions have experiences, what we physically experienced, psychologically, all of that. (Lesley: Yeah) Beyond that for trainings, I would say to look into something specific to whatever your industry is. So there's not going to be like a one stop shop for trauma informed. So for myself, we have a training for music therapy, for Pilates, like you mentioned, there's a training for breathwork, things like that, even if you're in the corporate world. I've seen that there are corporate training for being an employer that is trauma informed, which I think is brillant. (Lesley: Wow, that's amazing) I love that. Yes. So even if you're just in the you're not in a helper profession or therapy or anything like that, as a professional, but you're in the corporate world, financial marketing, whatever that looks like, I think marketing actually isn't a great area to be trauma and perfect. (Lesley laughs) (Lesley: Yeah, I think so) Right? Just think about your messaging and what you're actually promoting. And well, how to do it, how the best way to do it in a sensitive way. So but like I said, just for getting started today for make, making one trauma informed decision today, after you stop listening to this podcast, if there's someone in your circle, a family, friend, community member, client, patient, whatever it is, that you have that concern with, that you think that they might be activated in a way, ask them, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, talk to them. Find out from them personally, and I'll be willing to bet just making that step of that awareness and curiosity and, and compassion to to connect with them. You're already going to start bridging that gap, (Lesley: Yeah) without taking it even a step further.Lesley Logan 31:02  I agree. I think that's, you know, and also, something that is easier to do. Not easy. But is it as easy as that is like, if people are talking about how they're feeling, you can also just listen. You don't have to actually like, you don't have to agree, you don't have to ask, you have to say, "I see that in you as well." You don't have to, like you could just like if they can just, they can just talk and you can just sit there with your eyes open and hold the space. And then you can can ask them, "Do you need more time?" And if they're like, "Yeah," then they can keep going. If they don't, they'll go, "Okay." And then you can, you can also just move you can keep going, right? So I think like people are like, "Oh, I have to have a conversation with them." And, and one of the things that we're doing is like, being a feeler and like, it's kind of amazing when you just let someone talk about how they're feeling. And then you don't say anything. And then we ask if they want to pop out question, which is like, "What's your favorite color or whatever?" And, you know, like, it kind of brings it back. But it's kind of amazing like, if you just let people feel what they're feeling. It doesn't keep, it doesn't have to keep going. The feeling can have its moment and it can pass like a cloud, you know, not that it's over. But there's some interesting things with that. I think we can all learn like little bits, until because you know, everyone has their own thing. And I think a lot of people listening are to be all or nothing. It doesn't mean you have to go all the way today. But you can start with curiosity and asking, and I love that tip. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, so you have a podcast - Mindful Mentor? (Bree: Yeah) I've been on it, y'all. It was a frickin' great conversation. So you're gonna go listen to that.Bree Gordon 32:29  You're awesome. (Lesley laughs) Yes, yes, yes, you are. Let me just say, we're not going to say, "We invite you." No, you have to (Lesley: Yeah) go because Lesley you're incredible. And you just, you brought so much... just clever wisdom. I don't know if you've ever been told you have clever wisdom before. But that is how I walk away from this, I just, I felt renewed as an interviewer even just talking to you, and just as a person. So I just want to thank you and honor you again for your gifts you gave to The Mindful Mentor, because everyone who listens will be blessed by that. Thank you.Lesley Logan 33:00  Well, words of affirmations, my love language and clever wisdom is going in the next bio. So (Lesley laughs) (Bree: Done) we're gonna, (Bree: Yeah) we're gonna put that in there. I'm always looking for new, new words to go in there. So what made you start a podcast? Because as someone who started one, it is a lot of work, that (Bree: Yeah) you maybe are like, "I talk, I do lives all the time. Just gonna do this." And then you're like, "Wow, there's there's some steps in here." (Lesley laughs) (Bree: Yup) So (Bree: Yeah), what made you start it and what are you excited about with it right now?Bree Gordon 33:29  Yeah, thank you. So my background was in live radio, which I started as kind of a marketing arm of my creative arts therapy practice, which is Creative Arts Therapies, the Palm Beaches. And so we staff and develop music and art therapy programs for medical and educational and community based programs. So we were kind of using the radio show as a way to interview different individuals in the community, but also outside in the national, sometimes even international people to call in and interview about creative approaches to healthcare and to education. So (Lesley: That's so cool) anyone who had kind of, yeah, was really neat, a different like, out of the box idea of how to reach people, because as we talked about everybody is is individual. So sometimes programs that are so structured, aren't going to meet everyone's needs. So I did that for several years, and I loved it. But then I kind of wanted the experience of trying to do something a little bit more flexible on my own and trying to produce it myself. And so that's that's the journey I'm in now. And it is a lot of work, I will say that but it's doable. I have do not have any kind of formal audio tech training. I'm just smart enough to know when to delegate things (Lesley and Bree laughs) to other people, the things that I cannot do. I love interviewing, I love putting out content. So I just I kind of took a break from it for a little while, and then I'm going to go back to a point that I made earlier. So the work that I did was Stoneman Douglas. Like I said that kind of have renewed my energy as far as seeking out opportunities to do trauma informed work. So I reached out to a community here close to, like I said, I'm in West Palm Beach, Florida. So one of the communities here, Riviera Beach has an extremely high rates of gun violence, and especially a lot of young individuals dying from gun violence. So it's not a community that's been rocked by a school shooting, it's a community that's rocked by every time they leave school and walk home. (Lesley: Yeah) And that that is a persistent daily fear. So I kind of reached out to the community there. And I've made some incredible friends from that, that I just, I just can't even tell you how these women have blessed my life. But somehow I just divine intervention ended up in the lives of these women who are leading this impact this intervention for young women and young men to be supported in environments so that they know they have other options, that they they don't have to feel the pressures to go into gang life (Lesley: Yeah) or into drugs or if they're survivors of violence, survivors of sexual trauma that they have some who believe them,who will listen to them and to break these generational ties into just build up and just breathe life into this community. I can't say enough about it's House of Loveillionaires, if you want to check out a nonprofit doing that work. And the vision on Sabrina ...Lesley Logan 36:22  Can you say it again? House of Lovezillionaires? ... (Bree: ah, close Loveillionaires) Loveillionaires. Oh, I love that.Bree Gordon 36:30  So Sabrina Harris is the executive director of that nonprofit, and she got a calling, you know, from from God, that's her faith, that said, "Build a house with a million rooms, you know, for people to just love on them." And so she started this nonprofit, she's a licensed mental health counselor, they do a lot of community outreach programs. So, I met with them a few times, and, you know, did some programs together for for the women in that community. And as we're sitting in this room, and I was the only white person in this room, and so they trust me and bring me into (Lesley: Right) their community. I didn't live there, to trust that I had good intentions that I was going to stick around. But it wasn't just going to say, "Hey, I want to help" and then take off, (Lesley: Right) I felt the warmth of that. And then hearing everyone's experience, I again, could connect it to so much that I had experienced as a child, not the same. I know that I didn't have the same situation. And I was also very aware of certain privileges that I had because of my skin color in that moment. But some of the things that they were sharing, I could connect to, and I'll never forget sitting in this room having a conversation on couches, just kind of fireside chat style, and thinking, "These are stories that need to be (Lesley: Told. Yeah) elevated in the community, these these need to be told." And not only the stories need to be told, but the stories of empathy of how people are responding to each other throughout this, how they are aware of it themselves. Because it's one thing to experience something, but to never share it, to never acknowledge it in yourself to let it just sit. And hey, again, spoiler alert, that's what's gonna affect your body. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And then when you share it, it's like a lifeline, you toss out for someone else to say, "I really needed to hear that. I'm going through that too." And that's how that community and empathy grows as well. So yeah, I just I wanted to take the work that I've been doing, which made me aware of my my life, really, and all the things (Lesley: Yeah) that I had kind of shoved down and not been (Lesley: Yeah) acknowledging for myself. And because I think it took being in a moment where I was with individuals that if you had taken a snapshot, you would see all the differences, quite honestly, if you had really dug in, you would see all the things that connected us.Lesley Logan 38:50  Oh, that is so beautiful. And I think that has, I think that's really a lot of moments. I think, like, face value, it's like, how are these people all together, but like, if you go on the deeper scale of like, cellular level of experiences and emotions, there's so much that actually does bring us together and in listening to each other, it has so much healing, you know, opportunities and, and without that, then there's really no way that you can do anything that's next. Right? Like as you I mean, we all know like, if ... I mean we go to Cambodia, a lot people are shocked by like how family members can treat their children or have their children do different things. And it's like, when you don't know how you're eating your next meal. You're not actually thinking about the, the elevating of your child. You're not like if the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, (Bree: It's just gonna say yeah) it is a real thing. And so when people you know, I had a client who is frustrated with like some crime in her area, and I'm like, "You have to understand, if they don't feel that their needs are being met on a very basic level. They're not seeing the other people as anything other than an opportunity for them to survive."And I think that like, it is so important for us to, to understand that but I think it's really beautiful, how you let your your curiosity and your gut and also your willingness to listen and be empathetic to others kind of guide you into what's going to be next for you. And I, it's really beautiful. I've learned ... I've learned so many things in this conversation and I, I want to have more of them, I hope that people are as inspired as I am to be like, wow, you don't, you don't have to be the most expert person to just be in the room and sit down and like, listen, just and be there.Bree Gordon 40:34  And I think another point to mention, too, and I think anyone who's committed to this idea of be it till you see it is aware of it on some level. But that doesn't make this easy (Lesley laughs). Like it was not easy or comfortable for me to be in a room. Again, I look different than everyone else in the room, I'm an outsider in the community, I'm coming in to say I want to help with something that I really have never truly experienced myself. And then in the middle of that, I'm feeling all of these things about myself (Lesley: Right) and my own personal trauma. And the easy thing would have been to run out of that room, never addressed what came up for me and really removed myself from that community. So I became acutely aware of the fact that I had more work to do on me, so that I could show up for others. And there was a choice there. And that's kind of my new like mission with The Mindful Mentor that I'm promoting a lot is that everything we do is a choice. (Lesley: Yeah) These are all just dots, we have to make one choice to connect the dots, and bad choices or dots too, right. So it really determines what image we're going to create from one choice to the other. And so it's not always the easy choice to show up in that way. And to show up as your authentic self. It does require some work, but it's worth it. (Lesley: Yeah) So worth it.Lesley Logan 41:59  It's so beautiful. We're gonna find out how we can listen to your podcast and find out more about you?Bree Gordon 42:05  Yeah, absolutely. The Mindful Mentor, you can find us on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, or everywhere that you like to listen to your podcasts. And check me out on Instagram @mindfulmentorbree or on Facebook at The Mindful Mentor. Website is mindfulbree.com. Yes, (Lesley: Yeah) that's correct. (Lesley and Bree laughs) And then email is info@mindfulmentorbree.comLesley Logan 42:27  Amazing, amazing the team we'll put that all in the show notes. It's like really easy click and and just let her know, takeaways and how this felt or just what it brought up for you. What you know, I love that you brought up, it's not easy to be it till you see it. I also think it's not like I think a lot of people could hear your story and think, "Wow, that's gonna be so rewarding to work with people like that and help them do this." But also like, it's really heavy. And and, you know, it's not like you go home every day with a badge that goes, "I helped people today," you know. (Bree: Can I have a cookie now? I helped people today.) Yeah, so um, so I just want to say thank you for being someone who does that. There are people like you in this world who are doing that is amazing work. And it is very necessary because I think so many things that we're all going through is because of trauma unattended, unseen, un untaking care of and I don't know I mean, maybe that's the wrong choice words. I don't know that it gets taken care of, it just becomes something that you understand in your body. And so you can handle ...Bree Gordon 43:33  Learn how to cope with it. Yeah, exactly, build that resiliency.Lesley Logan 43:36  Yeah, yeah. So anyways, okay. I ask everybody how, what are some be it till you see it tips to prioritize yourself? So (Bree: Yeah) how, like, what do you think it can be one, it could be three, whatever your, what's come up for you?Bree Gordon 43:50  Absolutely. Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind for me, and I'm just going to stop at one because it's it's a big one. It's a big one is figure out what lies and this is going to be trauma specific. That's a lot of what we talked about (Lesley: Yeah) today. If you are someone who has experienced a trauma, big T, little T, it's yours. It's your experience. You don't have to compare it to anybody else's. Figure out what your life looks like on the other side of that. This is going to do a couple things for you. Right? It's going to allow you to expand your worldview of not just there's a mountain right in front of me, I'm standing at the base of it. I don't know how to get to the top. I want you to imagine what is on the other side of it before you even take that first step to get over it because you will, you absolutely will and all of that will come in between but just figuring out what life looks like on the other side of that for you. What are you... you can call it whatever you want. You'd like New Year's resolutions you can call it that. Your goals, your aspirations, whatever that looks like for you, but you just have to imagine, it's not that the trauma doesn't exist. But with that, with experience in my life, what does life look like on the other side of it? And then you'll have that encouragement to move through it, to grow through it, because you will, you will get through it, you will go through it. But it's a little less motivating. We can't see how beautiful and sweet life is, once we get to the other side.Lesley Logan 45:22  Oh, I think that's so beautiful because it's true. I mean, like, it makes me, I mean I also think like goals, visions, everything. Like, if you can't picture what it's going to be like, it's really hard to go through the hard stuff, because (Bree: Yeah) you're like, "When (Bree: What's the point?) is this gonna end? What (Bree: Right) is the point? Why am I doing this? It was easier just to live through the other way." You know, and it is like going through big T, little T trauma or just going through any goal in general. It's not easy. I don't know who (Bree: Yeah) told you is going to be but it's not. And then you know, but if you know what sweetness is at the end, as you mentioned, it does, it does give you a little bit more drive, it gives you a little bit more incentive, a little bit more reason to take that next step. Yeah.Bree Gordon 46:07  And it gives you that that downward slope on the other side of the mountain, the easier side, right. Like, otherwise, you're just still climbing and it's exhausting and it's hard. And part of that climb is involved for sure. But we want to see, we want to see what that that other side when that dreams in sight looks like.Lesley Logan 46:24  So beautiful. Bree, thank you so much for being here and sharing your words and your journey. I think it's really inspiring. I'm, yeah, I, amazing. And everyone please listen to The Mindful Mentor podcast. Um, you can, you can start with our episode. So you know, you know the voices, (Bree: Yeah) but then binge out because (Bree: A great initiation) I think you're gonna learn. Yeah, I think you're gonna, I think you're going to be inspired by so many. So grateful for you being here. And I'm grateful for everyone who's listening because because of you podcasters like Bree and I exist, like if no one's listening. We kind of are just talking ... (Lesley laughs)Bree Gordon 46:58  We just talk to each other and listen to it and repeat.Lesley Logan 47:00  It's like long phone call. (Lesley laughs) Very formal phone call. Anyways, I am so grateful for you. Please do us a favor, screenshot this. Tag us with your takeaways. Tag us with what inspirations came out of this. And you know, even if you just text it to a friend who needs to hear this has had curiosity in that way that is also amazing. But we do love seeing your takeaways, what, what landed for you, and until next time, Be It Till You See It.That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.Brad Crowell 47:58  It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.Lesley Logan 48:09  Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.Brad Crowell 48:13  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 48:22  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.Brad Crowell 48:34  And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Transcribed by https://otter.aiSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Dutch monarchs take a sacred oath when taking the throne. William of Orange aligns with the Protestant Calvinists. The Netherlands achieves independence and the Dutch Reformed Church is born. The Dutch National Anthem alludes to William's faith. Christianity spreads to the Dutch East Indies. The Dutch Christianity and help shape Colonial America. Dutch Reformed pastors give positive encouragement in a post-war USA. Indo Catholics in Southern California find a new home for their faith and culture. References: "The Low Countries" by E. H. Kossmann, "Move Ahead With Possibility Thinking" by R.H. Schuller, "The Power of Positive Thinking" by N. V. Peale; "Legerchef Middendorp draagt rijkszwaard" from Metro, Marble Collegiate Church (marblechurch.org), Hour of Power w Bobby Schuller (hourofpower.org, sgp.church), Reformed Church in America (rca.org)

In this episode, host Bidemi Ologunde discussed the downward trend in religion in the U.S. since 2009; how churches and religious services have changed since the pandemic began, and how some churches are using data analytics to target potential worshippers.Please send questions, comments, and suggestions to bidemi@thebidpicture.com. You can also get in touch on LinkedIn, Twitter, the Clubhouse app (@bid), and the Wisdom app (@bidemi).Check out host Bidemi Ologunde's latest book, Feet of Clay: Democracy, Democratic Values & Destructive Influences, available on Amazon, eBay, and Barnes & Noble.Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the show

In this episode, Micah interviews Dr. Jordan Ballor of the Center for Religion, Culture and Democracy. Micah and Jordan discuss the CRCD's Shaftesbury Fellowship, the upcoming Kuyper Conference, and how Dutch Reformed thinkers like Abraham Kupyer are relevant today. How do we engage with thinkers that hold certain views "cancellable" by today's standards?

Reverend Charlotte Sibanyoni is the first black woman to be ordained by the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa (NG Kerk). She is currently a PhD scholar and lecturer in Hebrew at the University of Pretoria (UP), where she obtained her Masters of Divinity and undergraduate degrees. She is actively involved in the Pretoria community and runs the student Greenleaf student ministry on UP's Groenkloof (Faculty of Education) Campus. On this episode she speaks about:How growing up in the house of a Dutch Reformed minister shaped her character and love for her community. Leading change from within a community instead of criticising from outside, and how she has done this in her work. Rising above one's doubts to lead.How she is using her PhD to combine biblical ideas about exile and violence in current South Africa.Making an impact by serving in small and practical ways locally.Subscribe to the LeadUP Podcast today ­– click here to find LeadUP Podcast in your favourite podcast app, or go to www.up.ac.za/LeadUP and click on LeadUP Podcast. New episodes are out every second Monday. Help us out by rating and reviewing us.  LeadUP is a production of the University of Pretoria's Alumni Office. Our host is Lennox Wasara and our team includes Elna Schütz and Samantha Castle. Our sound engineers are Louis Cloete Productions.

In this interview I speak with Alex Thomson who is a Bible translation consultant with the Russian Bible Society (USA), Trinitarian Bible Society (UK) and Gereformeerde Bijbelstichting (GBS). He also teaches the Biblical languages at a Dutch Reformed denominational seminary and presents Biblical linguistic and translational issues more widely as an occasional lecturer in the former Soviet Union. Support Us: Website: https://www.apologiacenter.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApologiaCenter/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/apologiacenter Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/apologiacenter --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/apologiacenter/support

Kristin Du Mez is Professor of History at Calvin University and author of Jesus and John Wayne. If you haven't heard about this book yet, you will soon because it is lighting Evangelicalism on fire. Kristin shares about growing up a bit sheltered in Northwest Iowa Dutch country, how moving and travel began to expand her understanding of the world, and why she decided to address militarism in the Christian faith. Kristen's story reminds us that we need to know Christian history to understand our faith. Listen to Kristin's story now! Stories Kristin shared: Growing up in Dutch Reformed circles in Northwest, Iowa Feeling supported and nurtured in that area Moving to Tallahassee, FL and learning that she was a little sheltered Spending a year in Germany Growing up always believing and making a profession of faith in college Cultivating spiritual experiences through reading in Christian history Observing how faith can be used to grasp for power A summer of discontent How understanding Christianity changed her faith The history of biblical literalism and how that shaped her Taking off the pressure to be right Landing on intellectual engagement as a way to inform her faith Deciding to address militarism in Christian faith Wrestling with whether she should be bringing issues to the fore How the cold war influenced our faith today How the Bible gets distorted and treated as truth The fruit of the Spirit as the definition of biblical masculinity Great quotes from Kristin: My working assumption was that Christianity is constant within history. If anything, my historical studies disrupted this notion of communion with my fellow believers. If you're holding on so tightly to your narrow conception of truth, that's a faith that can easily be shaken. A lot of Evangelicals have bought into a very us versus them mentality, that God is on our side and therefore anything that I do is righteous. Resources we mentioned: Kristin's website Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation Related episodes: Karen Swallow Prior and the Spiritual Practice of Reading Fiction Kyle Strobel and Integrating Spirituality and Theology Jeff Munroe and Stewarding Your Pain Aimee Byrd and Recovering From Biblical Manhood and Womanhood The post Kristin Du Mez and Knowing Christian History appeared first on Eric Nevins.

The debate about the origins of Enlightenment haven't paid as much attention as they should have done to the radical religious cultures of the Dutch Republic in the mid-17th century, which are the subject of Francesco Quatrini's new book. Adam Boreel (1602-1665): A Collegiant's Attempt to Reform Christianity (Brill, 2020) is a biographical and thematic study of one of the most enigmatic – and perhaps one of the most important – of the period's religious and scientific thinkers. In the first major biography of this figure, and in almost two hundred thousand words, Quatrini reconstructs from complex and often ambiguous sources Boreel's childhood in the Dutch Reformed church, the intellectual agendas and travels by which he was exposed to more radical forms of Christianity, the friendship networks in which he worked on projects that seem to have designed the conversation of the Jews, and most significantly of all the unofficial institutions that fostered the wide-ranging and open-ended conversations on religious subjects that marked the communal life of the Collegiants. Quatrini's outstanding new book opens up new windows in our understanding of early modern religion and science. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrew Bergsma (1930-2013) grew up in a “Dutch Reformed” home in Canada. His family endured poverty during the Great Depression. All 9 children were raised in the old fashioned way and walked 5 miles to church and back twice on the Lord's Day. A lady from a nearby Gospel Hall saw the large family of children and visited with a rice pudding and an invitation to Sunday School. That was the opening for the gospel in the Bergsma home that The post The Bergsma family – Reached through a Rice Pudding! (32 min) first appeared on Gospel Hall Audio.

Dan Ragusa introduces us to the theological method of Petrus Van Mastricht, Dutch Reformed theologian, who maintained consistent Reformed orthodoxy against Cartesian influences. Van Mastricht wrote a polemic against Balthasar Bekker, a critic of paganism but a proponent of Cartesianism. In his polemic, Van Mastricht addresses the issue of Scriptural authority, theological method, and the proper end toward which all theologians and philosophers must be directed: worship of the one, true, and living God. Dan Ragusa is a PhD student at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Readings Daniel Ragusa, “Beginning with Scripture, Ending with Worship: An Analysis of Petrus van Mastricht’s Polemic against Balthasar Bekker“ Petrus van Mastricht, Theoretical-Practical Theology Volume 1: Prolegomena Adriaan C. Neele, The Art of Living to God Participants: Camden Bucey, Dan Ragusa