Join the Dots

Time, process and perspectives - being artists in a complex world We want our listeners to share our wonder and curiosity about nature, embrace the complexity, take the time to enjoy the process of finding out more about our relationship with nature. Taking the time is, also, what Harriet and Rob Fraser of Somewhere Nowhere encourage us to do: take time, develop a deeper connection with nature and a more mindful, respectful study of it. They do this through the art of poetry, stories, photography and film to show the emotional element required to change hearts and minds, in addition to the facts and figures. Art, they say, is not just about an object you can see and touch. It is about what happens between people, when they take the time to understand each other, and nature. It is this kind of art that transforms people, encourages new thinking, and, hopefully we add, positive action. This bumper episode is the last in our second series, thank you for sharing this journey with us. *** The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own. *** reference list Ann Stevenson - The opening line of one of her poems was "Somewhere Nowhere" -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Stevenson Rebecca Solnit - Hope in the Dark

We are in the middle of an energy and cost of living crises, and widening gap between the very rich and the rest of the people, while our increasing energy demand is fuelling strife and wars around the world, not least the war in Ukraine. We recorded this episode in late April, before the announcement of windfall tax and help with energy bills by the Chancellor in the UK. But these are short term solutions, we wanted to cover longer term ones. Besides how effective measures like those in the UK really are remains to be seen and we'll get back to this topic again. We talk about comparative advantages of different energy sources, like how to deal with fluctuations in renewable energy, developments in battery technologies, tidal-, nuclear- and geothermal power. Our Jill Duggan stresses that we need investment in research, for example to find out more about hydrogen. On a positive note, we can see that building renewable energy capacity is now cheaper than fossil fuels. We can hope for better prices in the future and a fairer supply of energy. We also talk about what individuals can do like: - turn down our thermostats - insulation of our buildings - heat pumps, photo voltaic - install a smart meter and look at it – be aware of how much energy you use when - use consumer power to push for better policies and products When we talk about these actions, it's not because we ignore those who live in fuel poverty and cannot even afford to put the heating on in the first place. It's because we want to recognise our social responsibility to lower demand even if we can afford the increasing bills and campaign for cleaner and fairer sources of energy. For more tips on how to save energy - https://energy-trust.co.uk/ For trusted tradespeople - https://mcscertified.com/ For community solar power projects in the UK - https://solartogether.co.uk/landing

Ece caught up with Alla Ljungman with whom we first spoke back in February at the beginning of the war in Ukraine. We talked about birds, agriculture, energy technologies, what the Ukrainian Environment Ministry and others are doing, and a whale in the Pacific It is clear that the impact of war on the environment is not just on the battlefield or the immediately affected countries but the whole world - from migrating birds to global movement of goods and cost of such movement. European Union's decision to minimise oil and gas imports from Russia will mean more tanker movement from elsewhere; decline in fertilizer / raw material provision from Russia will affect food production costs. To understand and want to reduce such impacts and costs of how we deal with war is not about not dealing with war. But perhaps solutions that will reduce costs lie elsewhere - like consume less in the first place through insulation, reduced meat consumption, eating locally and seasonally. These are all acts of defiance!  The whale - shipping lane visualisation Ece mentions is here: https://www.livescience.com/whale-stress-animation.html - of course this is not conclusive, timing is not clear for example. and maybe whales like chasing / being chased by tankers. There were a lot of comments on the Linked In post Ece saw. But she still feels sad about it. 

Did you know corals call out for the new spoors to land on them? Did you know ecologists predicted pandemics like COVID19 before most of us even heard of the word pandemic? Policy makers talk about the dual crises of climate change and nature – its loss, degradation and pollution. We talked about climate change quite a bit on this podcast in terms of how we heat our homes, how / what we drive and daily updates from the Conference of Parties for the Climate Change Convention that took place in November 2021 in Glasgow. We also talked about nature – how we produce our food, how we can reduce polluting our air and water. But as we said in the last episode when talking about adapting to climate change – it is really silly to think about climate change and nature as if they are different issues. In this episode we are joined by Kate Jones, who is a Professor of Ecology and Biodiversity at University College London. We talk about well ecology and biodiversity and the intricate links between the state of nature, the state of climate and human health and wellbeing, and the new centre she will be leading at UCL called People & Nature - creating a promising opportunity for many to work together for the benefit of all, bats and all.

In this episode, we speak to Tamar Hagopian Schlekat, MSPH, the Executive of the Society of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry (SETAC), North America. She talks to us about her journey, from being an environmental consultant, helping clients use science to solve environmental and regulatory challenges, to becoming a manager and enabler of cross-disciplinary science to facilitate problem-solving, in the not-for-profit sector. She tells us about her passion for bringing together experts in different disciplines, creating synergy, to promote science-based decision-making. She also talks about her successes in the past, vision for the future, and her strategy for breaking down projects and proposals into their costs and potential impacts, in order to choose those that will effect the greatest change.

Did you know the UK is one of the most nature-depleted countries on the planet? That depletion makes nature (and hence us humans) vulnerable to climate change. Any investment in nature is investment in adaptation but where do we start? On 28th February 2022, IPCC – Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, published its report on impacts of climate change, our vulnerabilities to it and how we can adapt. They issued a stark warning that climate change is already happening and humans have already caused irreversible changes to nature. They also made unflinchingly clear that we are running out of time to avert catastrophic change, and to ensure that our planet remains liveable. These are stark and dramatic words, by mostly scientists, who are not given to dramatic statements. In this episode we want to talk about what this means for our planet, our health and our wallets, as the strap line of our podcast says. Also, supported by this information, how can we make better decisions for our households, businesses and policies? Perhaps most importantly, can we adapt to climate change in a way that creates a greener, cleaner and kinder world? Evidence so far that adaptation works so we have every reason to talk about risks and actions to address them. We are joined today by Kathryn Brown OBE, who is the Director of Climate Change and Evidence for the Wildlife Trusts in the UK. She has been working in this area for almost 20 years - the last 10 with the UK Climate Change Committee and before then on international negotiations and carbon budgets as well as adaptation for the UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. - know your carbon, Kathryn says - don't buy peat compost - write to your MP, visit their surgery, talk to them / ask them about climate change...are they asking questions against the Net Zero strategy? Why?!  - join your local Wildlife Trusts and other NGOs and campaigns!

Our Ukrainian guest Alla Ljungman talks about how Ukrainians were increasingly empowered and engaged in environmental issues Did you know Ukraine supplies grain to the world - 12% of the wheat for example? War stalls progress and process but people continue to collaborate and will return to land For what Europeans can do, see Jill Duggan's post for Environment Defense Fund Europe Welcome to the first of our episodes on war and the environment and Ukraine. We debated a lot whether to do an episode on Ukraine. After all there have been wars going on all over the world all the time with grave consequences for the lives and livelihoods of people and the environment. Would talking about Ukraine now mean we didn't care about the others? Definitely not. But at a time when environment was gaining such mainstream attention, we felt it important we continue to talk about nature. And talk about what was, is and will be good.  We also felt it important to talk about war and how its impacts can be minimised and cleaned up - especially as others want to push nature into “not now” “important but not a priority” category... or even try to convince us that as our grain supply from Ukraine is at risk, food security should become more important than bees and butterflies. Bu we want to remind them bees and butterflies = food security. We have a couple of episodes lined up on biodiversity and climate change. And we are trying to bring other guests to talk about war and the environment.  On this episode, we are joined by Alla Ljungman who is originally from Dnipro, now based in Washington DC and is an expert on energy policy working in particular on renewable energy projects. Here is a list of campaigns and charities you can support. As we learn about more we will add them here -  British Red Cross Ukraine Appeal  Disaster Emergency Committee - which also has a campaign for Afghanistan https://caritas.ua/helpukraine/ https://m.facebook.com/UnitedHelpUkraine.org/posts/4966430460090710 https://mirco.com.ua/en/index.html https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate/?fbclid=IwAR0wfDiWVPuz2qEvvnQT9wc6gEaqxOX9HAxbmKpoe1ac0Od9NLSRb54tv3M

What is Net Zero banking? What is your bank doing about climate change? Not just their own emissions, but also the emissions they facilitate? What does it have to do with you? Have you heard about green mortgages, green  loans and investments? In previous episodes, we talked quite a bit about how we can spend our money on a variety of things, from as little as a re-usable mask, to as large as installing a heat pump or buying an electric vehicle. But it's just as, if not more, important to talk about how our hard-earned cash works for us, and for others. In this episode, we talk about where we keep our money – in particular banks, and their environmental impact, behaviour and influence… To talk about banking, we are joined by the most unlikely banker – or not really a banker – Dr Sarah Kemmitt. Sarah is one of those wonderful examples of a career wanderer - from a PhD in Ecology, to the United Nations Environment Programme Finance Initiative, via Bank of England, and many more stops. She talked to us about the Net Zero Banking Alliance and Make Money Matter  We learn about how banks and other investors are responsible for not only their operational greenhouse gas emissions and other environmental impacts, but also those they finance or facilitate through their investments.  We also learn how, as individuals putting our money in banks, we have a right to enquire about banks' performance - what they invest in, what they divest from, what pledges they make and how they put those pledges into action.  Finally, Sarah ends the podcast speaking about the power of asking the right questions....that seems to be half the battle. 

Angie came to the UK, from Colombia, when she was 5 years old. She worked her way through youth theatre (a clear argument for good value for public money!), studying drama at University of East Anglia, and recently culminating in creating plays that make the distant and difficult relevant here and now.  We talked about how the current discourse around climate change could be divisive and how listening to what individuals care about can help make better policies. She makes a great point for strategic thinking for public policy - when everything is an emergency it's too late to prioritise. If you know something may happen, plan for it!  Angie is working with young people at Company Three. She recently wrote Are You Ready?  which was staged in the Good COP Bad COP festival organised by the Rising Tides environmental theatre company to coincide with COP26.  If you'd like to try your hand at playwriting and use it for communicating about climate change, check out the monthly online workshops Climate Acts by Write Now Berlin. 

Back at the start of 2021 we promised ourselves and each other to improve 'one thing' in our lives...to reduce our environmental impacts.  Listen to our update on how we got on, and our "one things" for 2022! Happy New Year! 

Hear about how a scientist manages to have so many patents to her name and still stays interested and fresh in her thinking. Dr Denise Manker speaks to us about how to use science and technology to solve our problems. But even as a scientist, she says facts don't change people's minds, emotions do – making evidence relevant but also revealing the emotions and passion of the scientist who talks about the evidence. The scientist as a human. Expertise demystified.   Listen to her and let us know what you think of her approach to using science. 

Season's Greetings come with a tipple or two... What where do those tipples come from and what impacts do they have? We talked about the festive / holiday season last year, in season 1. Not being able to meet up with family due to COVID made us focus more on the true gifts of spending time, showing love and support rather than spending money, buying the next toy, indulging in festive spending perhaps even beyond our means. All that is still valid this year - including COVID (omicron) postponing in-person reunions.  But wherever we are, at least in the UK, there is an increase in alcohol consumption during this time of the year.  They do say ‘don't drink to drown your sorrows, they know how to swim' and the same applies to considering (if not worrying) about our environmental impacts.  As usual, we are not interested in telling anyone to drink or not, or what to drink. We want to explore how to become more discerning customers - what to look for when trying to buy alcoholic drinks? Is it better to buy local, if their production is dirtier? How about packaging? How about certification?  Again as usual, let's use the power of our enquiry and money - what information should we demand from producers and retailers?  And about much more - all about wine, and whisky, but with lessons for all other tipples too, we spoke to Dagmar Droogsma

Been there, done that, got the mask The work continues. Listen to Sabine unpicking the COP experience for Jill and Ece and what it means for our future episodes. 

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for 'parties' and 'party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP - not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish "the mood music" as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries - supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for 'parties' and 'party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP - not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish "the mood music" as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries - supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. Energise Africa - explore impact investment from £50. This does not constitute investment advice. https://www.ethex.org.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiAm7OMBhAQEiwArvGi3LEDajR0t6O7vNC_o1HbwAQJ3ifr8I_gM3ts5tUlfNAmW_NQOfyMrRoCiuEQAvD_BwE   The draft agreement in The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2021/nov/10/cop26-draft-text-annotated-what-it-says-and-what-it-means     Net Zero Banking Alliance -  https://www.unepfi.org/net-zero-banking/members/   Net Zero Banking Alliance - commitment  https://www.unepfi.org/net-zero-banking/commitment/   Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero - https://www.gfanzero.com/about/   World Resources Institute - https://www.wri.org   Helen Mountford - https://www.wri.org/profile/helen-mountford

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for 'parties' and 'party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP - not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish "the mood music" as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries - supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. 

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.  You can watch Ece interviewing Lord Deben, Chair of UK Climate Change Committee on the youtube channel of Turkish Ministry of Environment, Urbanisation and Climate Change - he speaks about optimism and apocalypse, the history of climate change policy in the UK and the remaining challenges for the UK and the world, including security and migration.  For some research on droughts as trigger for migration - see this article and the Climate Change Risk Assessment for the UK (which includes international risks) by the UK Climate Change Committee. For the research Ece mentioned about rainfall and migration in Turkey was published by Nathan Delacretaz at University Neuchatel. You can see his page and contact details here.   

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. Survival International  Minga Indigena

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. Hackney Social Radio – Older Voices – An Intergenerational Conversation about the Climate Change with Younger and Older Voices in Hackney First Minister's Environment Council – press release today and Flickr account of the Scottish government that shows a photo of the Council (the top of Ece's head is just about visible – but really who has Flickr account these days?!)

LISTEN ALSO Day 12 update to hear more about Hydrogen. Hydrogen from natural gas only works if carbon left from the process is stored. Very expensive and not green as advertised by the Mitshibushi man.  A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. Ece attended a meeting of hearts and minds in a circle held by Kosha Anja Joubert, CEO of the Pocket Project in the stand hosted by Institute of Advance Sustainability Studies  Met with Derin Altan for 40 seconds after meeting him at a seminar on Net Zero for Bozcaada. Derin is one half of Esmiyor (means ‘no breeze' in Turkish) – a climate change news and discussions platform and podcast  

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.   Some of the Day 3 (Finance Day) announcements from Aldersgate Group‘s digest Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak announced that he was making net zero transition plans mandatory for financial institutions and listed companies The US re-joined the high ambition coalition Japan has pledged up to $10 billion in new climate finance The UK and India announced a plan to improve interconnections between the world's electricity power grids Mark Carney's Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero announced it can secure $130 trillion in climate finance commitments

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.  

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates. The opening ceremony is on the COP26 youtube channel alongside many others. https://www.youtube.com/c/cop26

A 12 day conference with diplomatic negotiations, a blue zone (for ‘parties' and ‘party overflows') and a green zone (for the general public) and many side events all over the city; attended by around 30,000 people.  A lot of work goes into preparing for a COP – not just the physical structures but also ideas, conversations and agreements. And the work continues after.  It is important to establish “the mood music” as Jill puts it, so all the work before, during and after, delivers what we need.  Ece and Jill are up in Glasgow for COP26. They will do daily summaries – supported by Sabine, Neil and Anna back at the HQ. If they manage to find each other in the chaos they may even upload a chat. Listen out for their summaries in the evening. See below for follow up references and background information we mention in the updates.     In this episode Ece refers to this article by George Monbiot: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/30/capitalism-is-killing-the-planet-its-time-to-stop-buying-into-our-own-destruction

For this episode, Ece spoke to Jodi Newcombe, one-time colleague, all-time friend, with several hats – including Carbon Arts and Castlemaine Institute. She talked about her journey of learning, unlearning and managing her professional ego. She says she hits ‘the green wall' but what helps her survive, and may also help you are: 1. discover and focus on your unique gifts and 2. listen without thinking about what you'll say next.  “Cultural change offers us the best chance for rapid evolution. What we believe and the stories we tell ourselves shape the world. Unlearning the culture, mindsets and belief systems that brought us climate change is a first and challenging step. But it paves the way for the joyful practice of forging a new culture and story in which humans can co-evolve with and regenerate life on Earth”

Eat or not eat fish? If you are going to eat fish, how to choose which? - check out the Good Fish Guide "we are putting too much in, taking too much out" The oceans are vast, deep, and largely unexplored. The seas have for countless generations provided a seemingly limitless source of food in exchange for humankind's wastes. It was long thought by many that the vast expanse of our oceans ensured that “dilution is the solution to pollution.” Today, it is abundantly clear that “we are putting too much in; taking too much out” as Sandy says. Chemicals from our activities end in the sea, and, often, in our seafood. Our voracious appetite for seafood has significantly depleted life in the previously teeming sea. Climate change is not only warming the seas causing some species to migrate and others to decline in numbers. It is also making the water more acidic – making it more difficult for species that need shells to make them and hence reduce their chance of survival, and dissolving shells deposited on the seafloor, that would otherwise sequester carbon. The less life (animals and plants, from whales to plankton) in the oceans, the less carbon the sea absorbs, adding to the vicious circle of climate change. A growing number of respected scientists, including Sylvia Earle, have told us that they would no more eat a wild-caught fish, than they would eat a lion, giraffe or panda. Fish are, after all, wild animals, and increasingly threatened ones. Many have recently watched the documentary “Seaspiracy” and similar exposes, which reveal many concerning issues about global fisheries. Both reviled as “vegan propaganda” and praised as brave truth-telling, it has certainly gotten people talking. That said, fish is an important part of the diet and economies of many communities and fish consumption is projected to increase in coming decades. Those of us who want to continue to eat fish have a responsibility to “engage to change” as Sandy puts it. We need to demand more information on what we are sold: what species where it comes from and how it is caught. These three factors are key to deciding if fish is caught sustainably – in other words, if we are taking out less than the remaining fish can replace, and if methods used are not causing irreparable damage to the seabed and the seas. We can do something about it – if you choose to eat fish, source your fish wisely – know what you are eating! Check out the Good Fish Guide from the Marine Conservation Society when buying fish. Of course, an increasing proportion of the fish we eat is farmed – aquaculture is a growing industry. It has its own challenges and trade-offs, and will be the subject for another episode.

In her journey, Joke admits lab work is a lot about washing up and she learnt when you start communicating your research, how you say it matters as much as what you say. And to make a difference to policies, we need to connect scientists first...competition does not always lead to efficiency. Sometimes collaboration is the key, and listening to others seems as important as presenting our information...as Joke says "How can I help you?" "Sustainability is everything we should do to be able to keep on going...." Joke says... Loosely defined concepts but tightly defined criteria are helpful to know if we are heading in the right direction.  Soil was Joke's first love but she's moved from soils to climate change...from knowing a lot about a little as a scientist to knowing a little about a lot as an advisor and communicator...It's all essentially  about connecting people and pieces of information 

Stakeholder capitalism - for the benefit of all...A big statement? Yup, need big statements even for baby steps.  "Business As Usual is currently unsustainable and a wasted opportunity" How can good business be good for the business, the people and the planet? What is stakeholder capitalism? In previous episodes, we've talked about the environmental impacts caused by the design, production, use and disposal of products such as air fresheners, cosmetics, toiletries, medicines, washing detergents, and hygiene products. We have explored the pathways from the release of harmful substances (such as pollution to air, water) through to impact on the natural environment and human health and wellbeing. We have also talked about what we, as consumers and citizens, can do - in this episode we look at businesses, but individuals are not let off the hook, because we also discuss what stakeholder capitalism is, and is all about.  What makes companies better at being more sustainable – commercially, but also socially and environmentally? Have companies been changing the way in which they conduct their business to reduce their negative environmental (and social?) impacts? More than that - are they beginning to think about their dependence on nature as an opportunity for innovation?  To talk about this, we have with us Helena Wayth, the CEO of A Bird's Eye View – a strategic business and marketing consultancy which she founded after years of working in different strategic and leadership positions across sectors and the world. She has written extensively on the changing role of Boards and on governance by private companies.  You can find links to her work and others in the references below.   

Tanya's love for the animals and people she works with will warm your heart. Tatjana (Tanya) Rosen is a National Geographic Explorer working on snow leopard, Persian leopard and Asiatic cheetah conservation in Central Asia and the Caucasus – currently based at Caucasus Nature Fund; having previously worked on grizzly bears ad wolfs in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks in the USA. The way she speaks about her connection with the animals is moving – so much so that Ece was lost for words at times. What is even more special about Tanya is that she is also connected to the people. She's striving to find ways that will make life easier both for the people and the animals – this being key to successful conservation. Her story will take you from Italy and former Yugoslavia to the USA, and via many Central Asian countries to Tbilisi, Georgia where she was when she spoke to Ece. Her story will also take you through war and terror attacks and from the courtrooms to the mountains.  Having mentioned war and terror, you would be forgiven for thinking the conversation would be dark and gloomy. On the contrary, you will be uplifted by her love for people and the animals she works with. She says any time she feels like giving up, animals remind her why she should not. Various links she provided can be found on our website: https://www.jointhedotspodcast.com/tanya

Is “cheap” clothing really such a bargain, when we consider our health, wealth and planet? What are the costs of our fashion addiction? What can we do about it?​ In this episode, we continue on One-Health exploring microfibres that are shed from our clothes and the chemicals we use to wash them... Fashion.  We love fashion – the colours, the textures. And, often, it is so incredibly cheap! How could we resist? It almost seems too good to be true, and of course, as for many such things, perhaps it is. We hear more and more about the social costs of fast fashion – the child labour, the sweatshops but in this episode we're focussing on the environmental impacts of making and disposing of clothing. Would you believe that the average US of American throws away 36 kg of clothes each year, and the average European, 11 kg? When you consider that 7,000 litres of water (not to mention energy, dyes and other chemicals, plastics and labour) are used to produce a pair of jeans, such waste becomes even more shocking. Still, less than 1% of all apparel is recycled into new clothing - the microfibres and chemicals in the textiles limit their potential for recycling - even where the facilities exist. In Down the Drain 2, We speak again with microbiologist and water resources expert Dr Eunice Ubomba-Jaswa about how fashion, fast or not, affects our water systems – their quality and quantity – and thus, our health, and the environment. We explore these issues, and look at what we can do to reduce the impacts of fashion production, wearing and washing. The impacts of our fashion addiction begin when the textile is made. Growing cotton, linen and other natural fibres requires water; as does manufacturing synthetic fibres. Manufacturing fibres and cloth not only use water, but also a number of chemicals, many of which end up in water systems. The clothes that arrive in your home still have chemicals on them, which can end up on your skin. Washing clothes uses water, releases chemicals, and, we are increasingly aware, microfibres by the billions. Once again, we breathe these in at home, and many also go down the drain, impacting our water systems, and the ecosystems downstream. In the next episode we cover how businesses are better organizing themselves... and we'll return to textiles and fashion in the future! For more info, references and about our guest, visit our website

In this episode, we hear about Susan's zigzagging path from literature to science and back again.   We chat about Susan's novels, Accidentals and Carbon Dreams—which deal with the science and politics of species extinctions and climate change—about incorporating knowledge of sciences like ornithology, wetlands biology, and geochemistry in realist fiction, and about how she got talked into writing Echoes of Life, a non-fiction book about the history of organic geochemistry.   You can learn more about Susan's work—including all the birds in Accidentals!—on her website.   And if you're interested in reading more of these novels about science—which have been variously called “science in fiction,” “lab lit,” and “nerd novels”—you can search for your favourite topics in the Fiction Meets Science database of novels about science. 

When things go down the drain, have we really flushed them out of our lives? How do we know which chemicals accumulate, which are safe or not? Why care about fish changing sex? In this episode, we talk about emerging contaminants, pseudo-persistence and One-Health  You are probably aware, by now, that we should not pour fat down the kitchen sink or flush tampons, condoms, wet wipes, hair, floss down the toilet. These clog the system at home or in the sewers or wastewater treatment plants. In the UK at least, the media and people have a morbid fascination with what they call ‘fatbergs' gathered / congealed masses of fat in the sewers. There is also increasing awareness of microplastics – bits of plastic that is too small to see or barely  visible - --- from microbeads in toiletries to microfibres from synthetic clothing, blankets, rags, and the like. We will get to this in Down the Drain 2. How about toiletries like make up, cleansers, shampoos and conditioners? How about medicines like painkillers, antidepressants, birth control pills and antibiotics? You may assume because they are certified to be used on and in our bodies, they must be alright for the environment too. That could be the case if the chemical ingredients were not accumulating in the environment.  For more info, references and about our guest, visit our website

In this episode, we speak to Kerry about how she handles the challenge of bringing different groups who don't normally see eye to eye together around "common problems" and values the emerging generation of people who are able to speak the languages of different disciplines and work with different tools and data.  You'll notice she doesn't adhere to a traditional job or even a single research area. Carving out where we can be most useful is the future.  Throughout her journey starting from the 1992 Rio Earth Summit, you will hear the joy Kerry finds in this challenge and grace in apportioning the achievement to all involved. Kerry was director of the Business and Biodiversity Offsets Programme (BBOP) and is currently a freelance advisor, a Council Member of the RSPB and a Non-Executive Board Member of Natural England

In this episode, we talk comparing costs and benefits; and life cycle analysis and thinking about the full cost  Hybrid and electric vehicles have been coming to the market for quiet a few years now. In November 2020, the UK government announced a two-step policy: Step 1 will see the phase-out date for the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans brought forward to 2030. Step 2 will see all new cars and vans be fully zero emission at the tailpipe from 2035. We talked to someone who is already making the switch. He happens to be an environmental economist ("first a birdwatcher" he would say).  Why electric vehicles? Because they don't emit the same / as much air pollutants during use - see our episode on air pollution and its effects. In addition, the electricity they use could be largely, and even wholly, renewable, also avoiding emissions of greenhouse gases. We cover the impacts of producing electric vehicles has like lithium mining but we also remind about the impacts of oil extraction. There is no zero impact way of moving about...well not in a motorised vehicle anyway. That's why it's crucial we follow a transport hierarchy:  Travel on public transport - needs more public investment (more, better connected, safe, less environmental impacts) When you can't use public transport – opt for lower impact: walk, cycle, and when you have to drive a car, choose an electric one…that'll be hard for the gas guzzling SUV drivers but we still have hope…and the technology and the regulation! Our guest in this episode is Ian Dickie,  is a Director of eftec and a Director of the Aldersgate Group. 

Given the new virus variants, we wanted to check out the new advice about masks. Listen to the quick update (we sneak in 'the precautionary principle' too). You can download the references which we used for the update by visiting the episode webpage - click here

In this episode, we hear the varied career history of Jill from fine art to economics; from John Lewis shop floor to her current position as the CEO of Environmental Defense Fund-Europe. Her curiosity and determination not to settle for “the way it is, the way it is done” enabled her to link it all together and how her ‘butterfly mind' is also what makes her sting like a bee. 

Who pollutes the air in our cities? What can we do about it? How about the air in our homes? - that's for another episode​ In this episode, we talk about impact pathway to understand the impacts of air pollution and transport policy - transport generally being the main source of air pollution in cities In December 2020, a court in London decided that air pollution was the cause of death of Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah (RIP). This was a first in law recognising causality. Science has been aware of the health impacts of air pollution for decades. In London, at least since the 'pea soupers' of 1953 (see below). And air pollution is one of those areas where science has been incorporated into policy - in the UK at least, we now have cleaner ways to generate electricity and heat / cool our homes (still room for improvement of course!) but there is a lot more to do about transport - where emissions are nearest to the people who are affected.  But what can a household do about air pollution? You can reduce your travel by car, switch to cleaner vehicles (our next episode is on this!), when ordering online choose the slower delivery or click and collect nearby, so your next day delivery doesn't add to the increasing delivery van traffic, and vote for the politicians who take air pollution, transport and everything else that is for your benefit, seriously.  There is a lot to talk about air pollution - hence a long episode but also more info on our website.  Our guest in this episode is Oliver Lord, Head of Policy and Campaigns at Environmental Defense Fund Europe, 

The problem with New Year's Resolutions is that we have too many of them and they are too ambitious. Years of making and breaking them leads to disappointment and they either become a joke or are dropped altogether. So this year, we decided to pick 1 thing and see it through. We'll let you know how you get on. If you'd like to share your 1 things, you can find us on Instagram, twitter and facebook – search for join the dots podcast or write to us on our contact page. Ece aims to reduce the environmental impacts of her cats.  Sabine will see how she can do less business travel and travel with less impact when she can.  Jill will switch to rooibos tea.  We talked about chocolate - apparently it is theobromine that we are hooked on. No one made a resolution about chocolate....

What is the best gift you can give to your loved ones? How can we celebrate with fewer environmental impacts and more love? In this episode we focus on life cycle analysis, beliefs and a bit of reminiscence We recorded this episode on 6th December. The UK government had given permission for ‘Christmas bubbles'… as you'll hear our resident scientist, Sabine, was not convinced….she didn't think permission meant it was a good idea.   Now that “Christmas is cancelled in the UK”, it is more important than ever to think about what it is we are meant to celebrate this of year.  December festivities celebrate cleansing, re-start, death and re-birth – closely linked to the change of season and nature.   Gifting We talk about the importance of time and love over giftware (like the tat with your name on it); about regifting something you loved and how about the gift of a donation?  The following are some opportunities to donate in the UK: Choose love that sends presents to refugees – especially good for that person you know who has everything   Trussell Trust enables you to donate centrally or find your local food bank – especially if you don't want to eat when your neighbours go without  Woodland Trust – to plant a tree to commemorate 2020? The end of.  Good Law project – uses law  to uphold democracy, protect the environment and ensure no one is left behind – especially if you're not happy about recent government procurement For more information please visit our website. *** The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own ***

"Eat food. Not a lot. Mostly from plants" Michael Pollan How do we navigate the food system and help reduce our environmental and social impacts? ​ In this episode we focus on the food system, integrated analysis, almond milk and a little bit of Brexit It was difficult enough talking about a household's shopping, cooking, eating habits in our first episode on food. This time, looking at the supply side if you like, it took us an hour to find a way into the conversation (don't worry we cut that bit!). And once we were in, we went from consumers to farmers to agri-business to government and yes, we had to touch on post-Brexit agricultural policy… This is not easy but conversations about feeding the world and saving the planet will need to involve everyone, and the solutions are a mix of science, technology and behaviours. So we hope you stay with us as we begin to explore these issues. We'll get back to food again in 2021! We talk quite a bit about different farming systems – in particular: Intensive farming which uses higher levels of input and output per unit of agricultural land area – inputs can include labour, machinery and agri-chemicals. The impacts on the environment and animal welfare depend on the combination of the inputs used. Extensive farming which uses a smaller amount of labour, machinery and agri-chemicals relative to the size of the agricultural land. Productivity (amount of crops and animal products produced per unit of land) in extensive agriculture depends primarily on the soil's natural fertility, climate and water availability. We recorded this episode before the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs updated their announcement on Environmental Land Management Scheme which will replace the EU Common Agricultural Policy in England - you can read the announcement here. More interestingly, the UK Climate Change Committee published their 6th Carbon Budget. You can see all the reports and a video of the launch event here.   The CCC report also covers agriculture and makes suggestions as to how agricultural productivity can increase: how we can use the land we have to produce more food but without this increasing environmental damage.  Our guest in this episode was Professor Bridget Emmett, CEH Science Area Head, Soils and Land Use & Head of Bangor site. At the UK CEH, Bridget leads land management - Brexit modelling work for the Welsh government which you can read about here.   *** The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own *** See our website for more further reading

In this episode, we hear what environmental economics is about; the work of eftec, of which Ece is the Founding Director and the work of the Climate Change Committee - Adaptation Committee, of which she is a member. It is a story of luck and grit and focusing on the positives to keep going. And yes, she is Turkish, but you call her a Turkish delight at your own risk.

Where does our food come from? How can we change our shopping, cooking and eating habits to be more resilient to risks to food supply and also better for our health, wealth and the planet?   In this episode we focus on the food system, adaptation planning, life cycle analysis, food miles and touch upon market pricing and public goods   The first COVID19 lockdown in the UK made us more aware that we are part of a very complex food system. It is a system that is increasingly subject to more shocks – not only Covid19 but also climate change and Brexit. In fact, given that the UK imports nearly half of its food (and, in the process, exporting the impacts of production), the whole system is worth exploring even in the best of times. In this first of two food episodes, we discuss our reliance on a small number of food sources; how to weigh up the environmental, health and cost considerations and how we can provide for ourselves in times of uncertainty. We also touch upon how good nutrition and equal access to food are public goods that deserve government support. We cover Storing Growing Re-thinking sources – food miles and country of origin are important but so is how the food is produced – about which there needs to be more information for the consumer Eating differently – adding variety to the meals you cook Wasting less – learning to cook differently, and being mindful of best before and use by labels; false economy of bulk buying that leads to waste   In the next episode on food, in December, we will look into what we eat and its impacts.     Key references we used for this episode are listed in our website – jointhedotspodcast/food-1 ***The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own***

Who tells us what clean should smell of? Who knows what is in the fragrances used? Do we need to surround ourselves with yet more chemicals, especially when their necessity is questionable?   In this episode we focus on understanding chemicals, risk assessment and policy    Pleasant smells have always been desirable – from artefacts found in Egyptian tombs to automatic sprays in public toilets today (OK, may be not those!). Fragrances used to be made entirely of natural ingredients like flowers, barks, deer musk and whale vomit (yup!). Over time more synthetic versions have been produced. We have many types of air fresheners – sprays, plug-ins, gels, candles, plug ins, incense…if they use already regulated chemicals, like known toxic chemicals or allergens, the labels on the packaging need to disclose these. But if they are not known already, we need to wait till some harm is detected. The entire world, including our bodies, are made of chemicals. But we don't understand the potential impacts of all sorts of different chemicals in air, water, surfaces that we surround ourselves with – whether they are synthetic or natural. Some are useful and inevitable but the need for others are questionable. We are not saying don't use air fresheners – thoughtful use of products that make you happy is reasonable but perhaps pause a little before you reach for the next one. Listen to find out how we can use coffee, lemon, house plants, baking soda and, our favourite, vinegar, instead! Thea Sletten, Principal Consultant at eftec (Economics For The Environment Consultancy), who is a specialist in chemicals policy and risk assessment, is our guest.    Key references we used for this episode are listed in our website – jointhedotspodcast/airfresheners ***The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own***

In this episode, we start with one of our own, Dr Sabine Apitz, because she was reluctant to be called an ‘environmental scientist'. Let's hear what she really does and why is she called ‘The Mud Queen'.

What do you look at when replacing your boiler? Where do you find information about heat pumps? Who do you trust? Can the UK embrace community heating options? In this episode we focus on energy policy and technology and, as always, a bit of cost benefit analysis... In June 2019, the UK committed to achieve ‘net zero by 2050'. Achieving this will require a coordinated and significant effort across all sectors. Heating and hot water for our homes make up a significant portion of energy use and emissions and are the focus of this episode. Policy makers assume there will be a switch to using heat pumps but knowledge about them is sparse; gas is subsidised to make competition tough and what's the point of changing to a super duper heating system if your windows are draughty and your walls need insulating? Jenny Hill of the Secretariat to the Committee on Climate Change and Peter Wickens from The Fuel Effect are our guests. We explore the challenges and opportunities for more sustainable home heating solutions, and explain the government advisory services and grants you can use.   Key references we used for this episode are listed on our website: jointhedotspodcast.com/heating   ***The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own***

Is there such a thing as a perfectly ethical choice? How can we weigh up the costs and benefits of our decisions? Should we feel guilty about choosing convenience over sustainability? In this episode we focus on Life Cycle Assessment and, as always, a bit of cost benefit analysis... In this episode, we take a deep dive and land on soft, cuddly nappies and sanitary pads.  Wait, are you going to use them once and chuck them in the bin or invest more in reusables..?  Compared to disposables, reusable hygiene products are seen by many as the 'ethical' choice. But what are the hidden costs of cleaning, washing, and maintaining reusables? Through the lens of life-cycle analysis, we look at the financial and environmental costs of hygiene products.  A switch to reusable sanitary products may not be enough if we go about washing them at power-hungry, high temperatures, or if we rely on reusable nappies without a plan to get children to use the potty as early as possible.  We finish off with an ode to the unsung hero of cleaning aids: vinegar.     Key references we used for this episode are listed in our website jointhedotspodcast.com/hygiene *** The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own ***

Trailer for the Join the Dots podcast. Join environmental experts Ece, Jill, Sabine and guests as they tackle the surprising effects of our daily decisions. Each episode brings you a vibrant discussion on a new topic, dissecting the evidence and having a good laugh along the way.  Check out jointhedotspodcast.com for more information about the podcast, references for each episode and to get in touch with us! ***The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own***

Why does expert advice change? How can we interpret risk evidence? How do we deal with uncertainty? In this episode we focus on Source-Pathway-Receptor Framework and, as always, a bit of cost benefit analysis... One of the biggest changes the coronavirus pandemic has caused in our day-to-day lives is that we now wear a mask in shops, restaurants, and public transport – after a long debate about whether we should wear them. Why has this advice changed? Can we trust science if it is so susceptible to change? How can we join the dots from evidence to advice? How should we wear the masks (or gloves or visors) and look after them? Is there a way to protect ourselves that's sustainable and affordable? We investigate. Also, you've probably read headlines claiming that countries led by female leaders fared better at containing the pandemic. We look at the research on women leaders and at what sets them apart from more autocratic male leaders.    Key references we used for this episode are listed in our website – jointhedotspodcast/covid19 ***The views we and our guests express in this podcast are our own***