Podcasts about rspb

The Whithorn Way follows an ancient pilgrim route from Glasgow to Whithorn in Dumfries and Galloway. In this episode, Mark and Rachel start with a quick stop off at Renfrew to contemplate the motivation for pilgrimage in medieval times. Then they head to Paisley Cathedral to learn about the unearthing of a drain which revealed a slate containing musical notation from the 1400's. And they end up at the RSPB's Lochwinnoch Nature Reserve for a bit of wildlife watching and poetry.

What is a strawberry moon? How do people celebrate the summer solstice? Amelia is back with another monthly almanac for June. Learn more about the nature and birds of June on the RSPB website - RSPB Bird & Wildlife Conservation Charity Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

Whilst out along the Kent side of the Thames Estuary on Saturday, aiming to capture the sound of skylarks and reeds, we met a walker with a very friendly border terrier. She told us there was talk of a nightingale not too far away at RSPB's Northward Hill Nature Reserve. We aren't strictly speaking wildlife recordists, the Lento box is designed like a wide angle camera to capture panoramic landscape sounds, but we thought it might be worth a visit to the reserve to see if we might be able to find it. Unusually for us public transport devotees, we were able to travel on to Northward Hill easily thanks to a magnificent Lento supporter. He'd driven us and the Lento box out from Brockley station in South East London to explore another corner of the Hoo Peninsula, and was keen to visit the reserve. We didn't feel hugely confident about actually hearing a nightingale. They are the kinds of birds you don't expect to find on demand. We rolled into the reserve's car park and quickly headed down into the woodland. We descended a rough flight of bare earth steps under the dark shadows of dense tree canopy, surrounded by glorious birdsong. All the usual suspects of course, familiar if you regularly listen to Lento - chif chaf, blackbirds, black caps, jackdaws, robins, various others plus trusty wood pigeons.  After turning right and proceeding further into the woods over a few hundred yards our ears pricked up. I found myself saying "and there it is" before I had even properly heard it. We continued for a few steps and, fortunately, there it was again, this time much more clearly, and without doubt a nightingale only about thirty yards away! Up on the tripod went the Lento box. I turned it to face the sound of the nightingale, and pressed record, bathed in the rich tapestry of spring woodland birds, coming from all around us.  Here's what the box captured. It's only twenty minutes. The passage of time is from around 5pm on 24th May. There are some people vaguely audible and a horse (louder) somewhere to left of scene. A road must pass the reserve too because some level of vehicle noise is distantly audible, but not so much as to spoil the overall effect. We capture whole landscapes from one fixed position, so what you hear is the nightingale just as we heard it from standing on the path and facing into the reserve. Wildlife recordists find ways to post their microphones very close to their subjects and as such we are all used to hearing nightingales proportionately far louder than anything else. In reality though these are not birds that like being approached, so few people can ever actually hear in-person, the bird singing as loudly as they do in specially focused recordings.  With a pair of headphones though this episode provides a realistic woodland soundscape with a nightingale almost dead centre of scene. You should be able quite easily to hear it between the other birds which are spread out to the left and to the right of scene. Listen out for a wonderfully special coincidence that happens a few times where a distant cuckoo comes into earshot too. It is pretty well dead centre, behind the nightingale.  There must be a farm nearby because several cockerels crow towards the end. The whole scene is in fact very busy, and whether a connection or not, I note how the nightingale seems to become more active when the chif chaf is in full voice. Coincidence, or not? This bonus episode is shared with big thanks to our trusty supporter and to the dog walker we met. 

This week we saddle up for the limp 2003 action buddy comedy Shanghai Noon. There's East meets West, there's the ever watchable Jackie Chan and hit-and-miss charmer Owen Wilson. There's some buddy movie chat and every excuse is made to discuss anything but this dull dross.  Plus: Joe gets waylaid by a call to the RSPB. Got a film you forgot you forgot? Hit us up at moviesyouforgotyouforgot@gmail.com with your thoughts, episode suggestions, or just some light praise.  The best Forgot You Forgot offerings make it onto the sacred Communal List - who knows, one day, fate (or our deeply flawed selection process) might smile upon your Forgot You Forgot. You can also follow Adam @errorofways on Letterboxd; he rates and reviews the films he watches. The comments section is a very cool place to be. Also, be a pal: tell your chums, rate us, review us, shout our name into the void - whatever helps spread the word.

Dawn Chorus Day is a national event run by the RSPB. In Petersfield, local environmental group PeCAN is organising an opportunity to gather and listen to the first calls of the day. The event takes place on Petersfield Heath on Sunday 4 May. Melanie says you're likely to hear blackbirds, song thrush, robin, woodpeckers, chetty's warbler and chiffchaff among others. Melanie and Stephen recorded their conversation in Merritt's Meadow Nature Reserve which is between Sandringham Road and Tilmore, close to the railway line. You can see how to get involved at shineradio.ukSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Myself and good friend Matt Shenton went on a well overdue trudge around the edge of Old Hall Marshes near Tollesbury. It's an RSPB site, so we were looking forward to hearing, seeing, recording, some birds, but as the car park is closed on weekends (doh!) we had a extra mile or so walk to get to the site. it was windy and fresh, but with a hint of warmth. Was good to take in heady lung fulls of muddy salt marsh air. Once we got there Matt recorded a fence with his contact mics and I sat quietly near the borrowdyke listening to a plethora of birds. There was however a lot of aircraft activity, which when looking at the Flight Radar app there was a light airplane doing a lot of small loops around Copford, and an Airbus 330 flying from Frankfurt to Cancun, amongst others. You can however revel in the delightful sounds of Sedge Warblers, Whitethroat, Wren, Chiffchaff, Swallow, Reed Bunting, Goldfinch, Blackcap, Greenfinch, Yellow Wagtail, Pheasant and Robin.

In this mini edition of Waterfall, Mike embarks on a journey to the magnificent Norfolk Broads. Speaking first to the RSPB's Ian Robinson about the importance of fen conservation, before Tim Harris shares his and wife Geli's extraordinary tale of safeguarding Catfield Fen from the challenges of water mismanagement. The full length edition of this episode was originally released on 22/9/2023.

Where does April Fools Day come from? Which birds will sing in the dawn chorus? Here's Amelia with this month's almanac... Learn more about April nature on the RSPB website - Nature's Calendar: April Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

Emma meets Ashleigh Hargrave, Interim Head of Strategy Projects and Management at the King Edward VI Foundation in Birmingham, and David Kitchiner, Head of the Portfolio Office at the RSPB, to find out what it's like to be leading project management within these two charities, both of which are APM Corporate Partners. They provide a behind-the-scenes look at how project management is woven into the strategic and operational fabric of their organisations. They also give their top tips on project managing in the charity sector and how digital transformation is bringing great benefits.Contact us: apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk 

The Great Auk: Its Extraordinary Life, Hideous Death and Mysterious Afterlife is the subject of Tim Birkhead's new book. This goose-sized seabird became the favoured food of hungry sailors and hunters, and the last two were killed in 1844. But then the bird became an obsession for collectors who vied for the last skins, eggs and skeletons. Victorian hunters, explorers and collectors feature strongly in the story of the Great Auk. The writer Kaliane Bradley places the 19th century polar explorer Commander Graham Gore at the heart of her time-travelling novel, The Ministry of Time. The book is being made into a television series on BBC1 – to be aired later in the Spring. Human activity has had, and continues to have, a big impact on bird populations. While several species have gone extinct, more are classified as threatened. But a joint conservation project between farmers and wildlife organisations is looking at restoring ‘zombie' ponds, in an effort to increase pockets of wildlife. The RSPB's Mark Nowers helps to organise the Lost Ponds Project and is involved in the protection of turtle doves, whose numbers are vulnerable.Producer: Katy Hickman

Where does March get its name? Which birds will be singing over this month? Here's Amelia with this month's almanac... Learn more about March nature on the RSPB website - Nature's Calendar March Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

David Maxwell finds out about storm proof trees at the National Botanic Gardens of Ireland, Kilmacurragh where head gardener, Seamus O'Brien also has tips on creating a wind break with holly, hazel and mix of other native species. At Ardgillan Castle on the coast of north county Dublin, Dominica McKevitt reveals a garden for all seasons where reliable shrubs like Euonymus fortunei ‘Emerald ‘n' Gold' shine out even on dull days. In studio, Colin Agnew explains what to do to get your Amaryllis bulb flowering again next year and with the increasing move away from peat products RSPB ambassador and Springwatch's Lucy Lapwing joins David in studio to talk about the importance of peatland habitats. Contact the programme - gardenerscorner@bbc.co.uk

Solar farms managed for nature can benefit birds more than intensively farmed arable land. Research by the RSPB and the University of Cambridge looked at two types of solar farms in the East Anglian Fens. Those with mixed habitats - with hedgerows, no grass cutting or grazing sheep had a greater number and diversity of flowering plants and birds than intensively farmed arable land, or solar farms which were intensively managed.As England consults on its new land use framework we find out how Scotland's land use strategy's been working. It was first published in 2011 and is updated every five years. We speak to a policy manager at NFU Scotland to find out how it's affected farmers and crofters on the ground.Regenerative agriculture or regen ag, is something that's discussed a lot, and it's a term creeping into the marketing jargon of food businesses - so what exactly is meant by it? Presenter = Charlotte Smith Producer = Rebecca Rooney

Well today's episode is a real treat as we welcome the amazing Ruby Free onto The Wildx Podcast. At such a young age, Ruby has achieved more than most and is a Conservation Biologist, Author, Activist and Farmer! Not only that, she has also lived on a remote island working for the RSPB and documented her adventures in the amazing book "Rathlin, A Wild Life."In this fantastic episode we talk all things conservation, following your dreams, community, rewilding a farm in Northern Ireland and Puffins!Listen in and enjoy the WildX Podcast!Buy Ruby's book "Rathlin, A Wild Life" here - https://shopping.rspb.org.uk/books-stationery/gift-books/rathlin-a-wild-life-by-ruby-free.htmlSponsored by:Chubby Mealworms - To find out more about their amazing bird and wildlife food visit www.chubbymealworms.co.uk&Cotton Carrier - To see their incredible range of Camera carrying equipment visit www.cottoncarrier.comGet involved with WildX at www.instagram.com/wildxphoto

Episode Notes Suzy reviews her birding experiences from January 2025, starting with the final week of an epic vacation to Australia! Back in the UK Suzy joined a local RSPB outing and went to the New Forest with the Ladybirder sub-group of the Hampshire Ornithlogical Society (HOS). While in the New Forest Suzy spoke with HOS Chair Keith Betton about his early birding experiences and the success of HOS initiatives to increase the engagement of young people and women birders in the group. Also: news about a new Casual Birder Community! Links Bird lists Take a look at the eBird checklists Suzy made from the locations mentioned: Bruny Island, Tasmania Chook Dam, Tasmania Mount Field National Park, Tasmania Eastrop Park, Basingstoke, Hampshire   Casual Birder Community Find out more about the new Casual Birder Community   Books mentioned in the interview with Keith Betton: Where to Watch Birds in Dorset, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight: 5th Edition Behind the Binoculars: Interviews with acclaimed birdwatchers Behind More Binoculars: Interviews with acclaimed birdwatchers   Podcast buddies mentioned: Hannah - Women Birders Happy Hour Kirsty - Weekend Birder Harry - Podcast Junkies Lance Anderson's GoFundMe   The Casual Birder Bird Club The Casual Birder Bird Club is an online bird club that meets every month.  If meeting up with a group of friendly people from around the world to talk about the birds you've seen sounds like something you'd like to do, you'd be very welcome to join us. Find out more here: The Casual Birder Bird Club   Your bird stories Tell me about your bird stories - contact me on the casualbirder.com website   Support the show If you would like to help support the show's production, by buying a virtual coffee here    Keep in the Loop Sign up here for email notifications of news, blogs and episodes   The Casual Birder Podcast   https://casualbirder.com/ Don't miss an episode - follow the show! My thanks to Randy Braun for designing the artwork for the show and to The Drones for the theme music Short Sleeved Shirt. Check out their website at www.dronesmusic.net  

Matt and Sarah have an extremely birdy time at RSPB Titchwell Marsh. It's a freezing cold day but that doesn't put the waders off! There's some incredibly helpful fellow birdwatchers and Matt embarrasses himself in front of a big group of birders...We also have some fantastic Birding Questions that have come though on the email address, so do keep them coming. It's info@rocknrollbirder.com to get involved!Thank you to this week's sponsors Green Feathers and Eco Bird Food. Hosted by Matt SpracklenProduced by Sarah SpracklenMusic by David JosephFor Wren Productions Ltd. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How did February get its name? What bird calls can you listen out for this month? Amelia is back with another Winter warmer to highlight some of the folklore and nature you can enjoy over February. Learn more about February nature on the RSPB website - Nature's calendar February Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

You don't have to have a garden to enjoy plants and this week David Maxwell explores the plant world that prefers the indoor life. Roisin Horgan set up her houseplant business in east Belfast after years working in offices which lacked greenery. She reveals the best plants for different indoor locations including, the trailing Pothos or Parlour Palm (Chamaedorea elegans) for a dull hallway, the Calathea for areas of high humidity or the tree like Norfolk Island Pine (Araucaria heterophylla) for bright locations. In his Templepatrick garden, Reg Maxwell is pruning gooseberries and apples and David visits Claire Barnett's new north Antrim garden where she'll be taking part on the RSPB's Big Garden Birdwatch this weekend. Cherry Townsend joins David in studio with tips on making gardening easier and the best beans to grow in 2025. Email the programme - gardenerscorner@bbc.co.uk

A 20-year-old from Sheppey who died following complications caused by diabetes has been described by his family as 'wonderful, kind, creative and loving'.Jake Chapman from Minster suffered a cardiac event which is thought to have been caused by a lack of insulin.Also in today's podcast, a Dartford shop owner's spoken of his devastation after a lorry containing all of his stock went up in flames.Crews were called to the blaze near the Orchards Shopping Centre last Saturday night.A weather warning for strong wind is in force across Kent as Storm Eowyn hits.Forecasters are predicting gusts of up to 70 miles per hour in coastal areas. Hear from the RNLI who are advising us to stay away from the coast.There are calls for a new youth centre to be built on derelict land near Dover.The site in Aylesham used to house a leisure facility but has been vacant since a fire there almost 10 years ago.We're being asked to count the number of birds we see in our gardens in Kent this weekend as part of the biggest survey of its kind.The Big Garden Birdwatch is organised by the RSPB so they can keep a track of populations.In sport, Gillingham will be looking to end a run of five games without a win this weekend.They're travelling to take on Tranmere Rovers in league two.

Join us as we celebrate garden birdlife ahead of the RSPB's Big Garden Birdwatch! The RSPB's Adrian Thomas gives us a crash course in birdwatching from the comfort of your own kitchen window, while scientist Arran Folly discusses the threats facing our feathered friends and what we as gardeners can do to help. Plus Nick Turrell from the RHS advisory team shares how front gardens can play a vital role in reducing flood risks in our communities. Host: Gareth Richards Contributors: Dr Arran Folly, Adrian Thomas, Nick Turrell Links: The Big Garden Bird Watch RHS guide to identifying garden birds The Vector-Borne RADAR project

If you're looking to support wild birds in your garden, the RSPB's upcoming Big Garden Birdwatch is an essential event for us all.Adam Nicolson and Emma Marsh, Executive Director of the RSPB, join Sarah in this week's bird-focused episode of ‘grow, cook, eat, arrange' to discuss how to get involved in this weekend's annual bird count, how it came to be, and the many ways that gardeners can actively support and encourage more wild birds in our gardens and green spaces.In this episode, discover:The role that gardens and gardeners play in restoring a bustling wild bird population.What we all can do to provide natural sustenance, shelter and safety for birds with our choice of planting.How the Big Garden Birdwatch came to be, and how you can get involved this coming weekend.Verbena bonariensishttps://www.sarahraven.com/products/verbena-bonariensisLupinus ‘Masterpiece' (Westcountry series)https://www.sarahraven.com/products/lupinus-masterpieceEnglish Yew (Taxus baccata)https://www.sarahraven.com/products/english-yewRosa ‘Rambling Rector'https://www.sarahraven.com/products/rose-rambling-rectorFollow Sarah: https://www.instagram.com/sarahravenperchhill/Join the RSPB Big Garden Birdwatch: https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/big-garden-birdwatchGet in touch: info@sarahraven.comShop on the Sarah Raven Website: http://bit.ly/3jvbaeuFollow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahravensgarden/Order Sarah's latest books: https://www.sarahraven.com/gifts/gardening-books?sort=newest

As the RSPB's Big Garden Birdwatch approaches (24-26 January 2025), the Plodcast team of Fergus, Hannah, Jack and Lewis explore what birds are visiting their own very different patches. Check in to hear their tales and local dramas. And get involved in the Big Garden Birdwatch by visiting www.rspb.org.uk The BBC Countryfile Magazine Plodcast is the Publishers Podcast Awards Special Interest Podcast of the Year 2024 and the PPA Podcast of the Year 2022. If you've enjoyed the plodcast, don't forget to leave likes and positive reviews. Contact the Plodcast team and send your sound recordings of the countryside to: theplodcast@countryfile.com. If your letter, email or message is read out on the show, you could WIN a Plodcast Postbag prize of a wildlife- or countryside-themed book chosen by the team. The Plodcast is produced by Jack Bateman and Lewis Dobbs. The theme tune was written and performed by Blair Dunlop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Dan chats with Indy from the RSPB about the upcoming Big Garden Birdwatch, the world’s largest garden wildlife survey. Discover how you can help track the UK’s bird population by spending just one hour counting birds in your garden or local green space! Meanwhile, Adam explores the charm of one of Britain’s most beloved birds—the robin. With its bright red chest and winter song, this iconic bird is full of surprises, as Rob from the British Trust for Ornithology reveals fascinating insights about their territorial behaviour and cheerful melodies. RSPB Big Garden Birdwatch British Trust for Ornithology Join Fun Kids Podcasts+: https://funkidslive.com/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

An outbreak of Foot and mouth disease in Germany brings import bans and calls for farmers to be vigilant. We speak to the Chief Vet for Wales.Signs of spring - have you spotted any yet? The Field Studies council would love to hear from you - details below.Ahead of the RSPB's Garden Birdwatch (Jan 24th-26th) for our bird of "conservation concern" in Wales we hear how the humble house sparrow is fairing and the project to kickstart live, community gigs coming to a rural village near you!

Explore the celebrations, folklore and natural changes of January in the winter warmer. Amelia discusses some tasty traditions, celebrating Scotland's most famous poet and listens out for bird calls. Learn more about January nature on the RSPB website - Nature's calendar January Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

Myra Anubi visits a major project in the north of England that's restoring a damaged landscape. Haweswater in the Lake District is an area of stunning natural beauty but over the years it's been degraded by humans and livestock. This has created flood risks and reduced biodiversity. But now work is underway to restore the site to benefit both people and the environment. Rivers have been ‘re-wiggled', peat bogs repaired, and new trees planted. Myra also visits an innovative scheme in the area that's using old Christmas trees to repair damaged river banks.People Fixing The World from the BBC is about brilliant solutions to the world's problems. We'd love you to let us know what you think and to hear about your own solutions. You can contact us on WhatsApp by messaging +44 8000 321721 or email peoplefixingtheworld@bbc.co.uk. And please leave us a review on your chosen podcast provider.Presenter: Myra Anubi Producer: Richard Kenny Editor: Jon Bithrey Sound mix: Gareth Jones(Image: Annabel Rushton and Glen Swainson of the RSPB with Myra Anubi, BBC)

What does it take to lead one of the world's largest conservation organisations through a time when 41% ofUK species are in decline?And how can today's conservation leaders inspire millions to fight for biodiversity? Today's guest, Beccy Speight, CEO of the RSPB, offers her insights into what it takes to manage over 1.2 million members and 200 reserves across the UK.In this episode, we discuss the RSPB's mission, the role of effective leadership, and Beccy's own career path from local government to conservation leadership.Beccy shares the biggest challenges she faces, her hopes for the RSPB over the next decade and what advice she'd give to anyone looking to enter the conservation sector.It's an inspiring, insightful, and mission-driven podcast.

Step into the heart of an ancient woodland as we explore Ashenbank Wood, a Site of Special Scientific Interest rich in history and teeming with wildlife. Woodland has stood here for centuries, but this haven is under threat. A proposed tunnel project, the Lower Thames Crossing, could harm the irreplaceable ecosystem and ancient trees here. Jack, leader of our woods under threat team, explains what's at stake and the challenges and strategies involved in trying to maintain a delicate balance between development and nature. A decision on whether the project goes ahead is due from Government in May 2025. We also meet estate manager Clive, who delves into Ashenbank Wood's history, tells us more about why ancient woodland is so important and shows us the unusual approach of strapping deadwood to trees. Don't forget to rate us and subscribe! Learn more about the Woodland Trust at woodlandtrust.org.uk Transcript You are listening to Woodland Walks, a podcast for the Woodland Trust presented by Adam Shaw. We protect and plant trees for people to enjoy, to fight climate change and to help wildlife thrive.  Adam: Today I am at a site of Special Scientific Interest in the Kent Downs Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, which is teeming with extraordinary wildlife, and I'm told you can stand in the shadows of gnarled veteran trees and even spot some shy dormice, rare bats, and woodland wildflowers if you're there at the right time of year. But it is also a site under threat. National Highways propose to build a new tunnel linking Essex and Kent under the River Thames, and many feel that that will create a threat to the trees and wildlife here. So I've come not just for a walk, but to chat to experts and the first is the man responsible for coordinating the Woodland Trust response to big infrastructure projects and to chat to him about how infrastructure and nature can live hand in hand.  Jack: So I'm Jack Taylor, I'm the programme lead for the woods under threat team at the Woodland Trust.  Adam: Brilliant. And we're at Ashenbank Woods?  Jack: We are indeed.  Adam: Good, OK, sorry, yeah *laughs* I know I should sound more sure, we are at Ashenbank Woods.  Jack: I think its full title might be Ashenbank Woods SSSI, site of special scientific interest.  Adam: Oh right yes, yes. And we're going to see a bit later a colleague of yours, Clive, who will tell us more about the details of this woodland. But the reason why I wanted to talk to you first as we walk through, what is a lovely, actually dappled, dappled bit of woodland here is about your role in protecting places like this from development because, so what, what is your job?  Jack: Yeah, it's beautiful. That's a good question *laughs* what is my job? I I suppose the the base of it, the basis of it, the foundation really is about trying to protect ancient woods and ancient and veteran trees from forms of development, but also from other threats outside of that as well. So non-development threats like air pollution, pests and diseases, deer overbrowsing. Most of my work does focus on working within the development sector and trying to protect against those development threats.  Adam: Right, and you're the project lead.   Jack: Yeah.  Adam: When I first saw that, I thought you meant you're the project lead for this woodland, but you are not. You are the project lead for all development threatening woodlands throughout the UK. This is an extraordinary, I mean that's quite a job.  Jack: Yeah, it's it's a lot. There are a lot of threats to have to deal with across the UK because we're always building always sort of growing as a nation. We always need sort of new forms of infrastructure and new sort of housing. We recognise that. But all of that does come with the added impact of having threats on our ancient woods and ancient and veteran trees, so we have a team of myself and my my wonderful team of four as well.  Adam: Alright. Yeah, it's not big.  Jack: No, it's not big, but they they are enthusiastic and they're great at what they do.  Adam: So this is quite a political area because we've got a new government which has promised to improve lots of things, get the country working, build lots of homes. I think, I think the Prime Minister only recently talked about, you know, we're going to get spades in the ground, we're going to be doing stuff. Well, is it your job to stop all of that, I mean, or how do you balance what needs to be done for the country and what needs to be done to protect woodlands?  Jack: Yeah. So it's so none of this is really about stopping development from from happening and we we have to be sort of quite clear that that's not what we're set out to do as an organisation. It's about trying to ensure that where development is happening. It's not going to impact on our most important and our most valuable woods and trees and that's why we do have a focus specifically on ancient woodland, but and then also on ancient and veteran trees as well, because we know that for the most part, there are lots of really valuable woods and wooded and wooded habitats and trees that are plenty sort of valuable and important. But we know that ancient words and ancient and veteran trees are likely to be our most important sites. We have to focus on protecting those. So we do have to object to some developments where we think the harm is gonna be too great, but we're never really looking to stop them from happening, unless the harm is too great.  Adam: OK. Which way?  Jack: Umm, I think right.   Adam: OK. So one of the things I've noticed before, I mean, when I was following the HS2 debate, was politicians were going ‘it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. We'll cut this down, we're going to replace them. I tell you what, we'll do you a deal, we'll plant two for every one we cut down.' On the face of it that sounds reasonable?  Jack: OK. Yeah, not to us.   Adam: Why not?   Jack: Well, I think if you're, if you're looking at ancient woodlands and ancient and veteran trees, you're looking at something that is an irreplaceable habitat. There is no sort of recreating that habitat in in one space again, once it's been lost and the reason for that is these things take centuries to evolve and develop to create those sort of vital links between animals, plants, fungi, the soils as well. So ancient woodlands are especially important for their soils. So you can't really just take those soils and put them elsewhere because once that happens you completely disturb the relationships that have built up over centuries within them. And ancient and veteran trees, so you're talking about trees that for the most part are going to be centuries years old. How do you how do you replace centuries of development creating these wonderful sort of niche habitats for different parts of our ecosystems?   Adam: And is it, you said quite clearly that it's not your job or the Trust's job just to stop development, just to sort of blanket go, ‘hey, stop building' so is it about going, ‘don't build here' or is it about saying, ‘if you're gonna build here, this is how to do it with the least amount of impact'? What's the sort of your approach?  Jack: Yeah. In some cases it is about saying not, not building here. It depends what we're dealing with, I suppose so it's different if you're dealing with, say, housing developments or leisure facilities as opposed to something like rail infrastructure or road infrastructure, which is quite linear in nature, so they can only really go in one place to deliver its purpose, whereas housing is not as locationally dependent.  Adam: I see. So you feel you've got a better argument if it's a housing project, cause you can go, ‘put it somewhere else', but the train journey from A to B has to sort of go through this area. You're you're on a loser there are you?  Jack: Well, sometimes, but there are there are ways of of getting around sort of kind of impact. I mean it doesn't have to go absolutely sort of A to B in one way. You can think very carefully about the design to try and minimise impact on ancient woods. You can also look at alternative solutions, engineering solutions like tunnelling for example, so HS2 is a good example of that. The Phase One section which is going ahead between London and Birmingham, they actually put in a tunnel under the Chilterns, which saved about 14 hectares of woodland saved these three really good prime areas of ancient wood. And of course the Chilterns Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty came into that in a way, and they were trying to protect that also. But that was one solution to stop wildlife and nature being harmed.  Adam: Right. So that's, was this, were you involved with that?   Jack: Yeah, yeah.   Adam: Amazing. So how difficult was that to get that that project through and try to avoid the destruction of all that woodland?  Jack: Well, a lot a lot of destruction still is happening from High Speed 2. So about 20 hectares of ancient woodland has been destroyed at this stage now. A lot of the sort of preparation works for the Phase One section, that London to Birmingham bit, are now complete. So it it was difficult, but it it the way in which we were involved is we really brought ancient woodland to the table and put it at the forefront of considerations and and gave it a voice I suppose. It's not that it wasn't being looked at at all, but not nearly to the degree that we thought it needed to be looked at. And so we sort of kind of introduced that idea of well look, there's ancient woodland here, you need to be thinking carefully about the design and, you know, you think you're talking about halving the impacts on ancient woodlands from from our sort of kind of involvement and involvement of other conservation organisations in there as well.  Adam: So a lot of it is trying to say, to make the argument, but also to raise the profile of that argument,   Jack: Sure.  Adam: To bring, population and say this is actually a loss. You know, cutting it down is is a loss. So how much harder or easier has it got for you to make that argument?   Jack: Well, do you know, interestingly, I I would probably say that projects like High Speed 2, where there is such a big argument around the ancient woodland has raised the profile of ancient woodland itself. That's one of the sort of silver linings of that project for us, it's put sort of ancient woodland on the map in terms of habitat that needs to and is worthy of protection. So I think a lot of people now understand ancient woodland a bit better and what it is. There's still lots of awareness to do, you know, people just think of ancient woodlands as bluebells, big large oaks and it's not quite there. I mean, they're all so kind of varied in their nature and geographically across the country, but it's got people thinking about them.  Adam: So that was something of a success, although I know more complicated than just ‘yes, we won that'.   Jack: Sure, yeah.   Adam: Any areas you feel you really lost that, you know, keep you up at night, you go, that was that was a failure and you know, we've lost that woodland?  Jack: Yeah. I mean, there've been, there've been some over the years. Back in 2012 a a large quarry was built on an area of woodland called Oaken Wood in Kent, probably taking about out about 30 to 35 hectares of ancient woodland which is massive, massive amounts, I mean, you're talking about in the region it's like 40 to 50 football fields and and and we're actually dealing with another threat to that woodland from an expansion of that same quarry. So yeah, you know that that one is one that gnaws gnaws at us, is that, you know, we don't want to see that happening anymore.  Adam: Are you getting more optimistic that you know the public are more on your side that this is at least something that plays in policymakers' decisions now?  Jack: I I actually think the public have always really been on our side. I think if you ask the the general public, they would probably say to you, we do not want to see ancient woodlands subject to any loss or deterioration, whatever the cause.  Adam: Yeah, I think you're right. But they also say, yeah, but we like cheaper housing and want better transport links so.  Jack: Yeah. Well, I mean the Lower Thames Crossing, which is going to be affecting this site that we're in now, Ashenbank Wood is sort of a prime example of that the the intention of that project is to relieve traffic congestion on the existing Dartford Crossing.  Adam: Which I think actually I can hear in my headphones this, although we are, I mean it looks beautiful, there's quite a lot of background traffic noise. So we can't be that far away actually from from transport, from big roads. So explain to me you say this this particular site, Ashenbank Woods which is a site of Special Scientific Interest, so it's not just any old woods, this is a really special place, is under threat. What is the threat here?   Jack: So the threat here is partially there will be some loss to the wider SSSI ancient woodland in the area when you're losing sort of kind of, Ashenbank Wood itself is not going to be subject to much loss, although there is a cycle route diversion going through the woods that might impact on some of its special features.  Adam: Oh one second just, we've we've just turned off the path, we're just, oops crawling under some trees. I don't quite know why we've come, we we seem to have chosen the most difficult route. Well, it is beautiful because we've come off the path right into a magic dell.   Jack: There we go.  Adam: Oh, look, there's obviously some, I think, probably some kids have built a sort of camp, tent out of fallen branches. OK, so sorry so I understand that this is under threat from development, the the development plan though is what? What are they trying to do here?  Jack: So so what they're doing is they're building a new crossing further to the east of Dartford Crossing, but that's going to involve connecting...  Adam: A river crossing, a tunnel?  Jack: Yes a river crossing.   Adam: But it's a tunnel.   Jack: Yeah, it's a tunnel.  Adam: Why would that? That's that's great, surely?  Jack: Well, the tunnel goes under the Thames. But in order to connect the A2/M2 to the to the sort of tunnel portal, they're going to be going through a lot of ancient woodlands as a result. So just down the way Clay Lane Wood is one that's going to be heavily impacted by by the proposals, you know several hectares of ancient woodland loss there, but in terms of our wood itself, you're you're gonna have impacts on some of the veteran trees from some of the works that are required in here. But you're also sort of increasing the traffic around the area on A2/M2. And as you can hear, there's already quite loud background noise from the traffic. If that becomes louder, it further reduces the suitability of this habitat for a lot of species.  Adam: Right. So what are your, what are you doing?  Jack: Well we're campaigning against it for one thing. So we've been campaigning against it since 2016, trying to bring those bring those sort of impacts down as far as possible. At this point in time, I would probably say that it's unfeasible, that it could go ahead without causing loss or damage to ancient woodland and veteran trees, and that's something that we have to oppose as an organisation. So we're working with other environmental NGOs, conservation orgs like RSPB, Buglife, Wildlife Trust, CPRE to to oppose this scheme.  Adam: So, and if people want to keep an eye on the sort of campaigns you're running, and the sort of live issues around the country, where can they get that information?  Jack: They can go along to woodlandtrust.org.uk/campaigns and they'll be able to find out about what we're doing in terms of campaigning for protection of ancient woods and veteran trees. We've got a really great campaign at the moment, all about protecting ancient and veteran trees and we're stood in in front of one of these at the moment, we call them Living Legends.   Adam: Right OK, what a lovely link, because I I was gonna say you've brought me to a stand. It looks like a sculpture this, so what, so let me just briefly describe this. I mean, it's a hollowed out tree. There's, it almost looks like there's 3 or 4 bits of different trees supporting each other, and you can go hide in the middle. I mean, there's, I'd, I couldn't spread my arms in the middle, but I mean almost, you know, there's probably, I don't know, 4 or 5 foot wide in the middle. It's most extraordinary. What is this? What's going on here?  Jack: So I would probably say this is an ancient ash tree. As trees sort of grow older, they they have to sort of kind of allow their heartwood to to rot away because that's what keeps them sort of stable and secure and in doing so that creates really important habitat for wildlife. And so this is what has happened to this ash tree effectively, its heartwood has sort of rotted away, it's still got this kind of all important surrounding ripewood to be able to support the rest of the tree.  Adam: That's extraordinary. So the the, the, the wood at the centre of the tree, the heartwood has gone?  Jack: Yes, yeah, yeah, cause it it's not it's not really useful for for trees at that sort of point. It's it's no longer the part of the wood that's carrying the sort of the water and nutrients up the tree. That's what the sort of outer ripewood does. So the heartwood decays away as they as they grow older.  Adam: And that's just ash trees is it?  Jack: No, that's that's pretty much all. Yeah.  Adam: How ignorant am I? OK, fine. OK. I didn't realise that that happens to all trees. And it looks like that would cause an instability problem, but this looks actually fairly fairly stable, it's fine.  Jack: It it's it's actually it's actually the other way they do it because it allows them to remain as stable as possible. And I I mean this one it doesn't, it doesn't look in the best sort of structural condition does it, but they need to do that for their sort of physiological condition because if they have if they're trying to support too much sort of heartwood then it affects the trees energy balances. And I mean that there's actual sort of scientific things here between the kinetic and the potential energy in a tree and why why they do this but all old trees do it and in turn it creates this amazing habitat, so you can see all these little holes in the in the sort of kind of inside wood and the decaying wood as well, where insects have sort of burrowed into it, where birds would be, woodpeckers, you know would be would be accessing that as well.   Adam: Yeah. Amazing   Jack: Amazing structures, aren't they?  Adam: And so I'm going to meet now, one of the people responsible for actually managing woods such as Ashenbank, and he's waiting for me a bit further into the woods.  Clive: OK, I'm Clive, Clive Steward, I'm one of the estate managers for the Woodland Trust working in the South East.  Adam: So what is important about this site? What makes this wood special?  Clive: What makes this site special is that it's ancient woodland or partly ancient woodland, but it's also managed as a wood pasture or has been managed as a wood pasture in the past, and because of that habitat it has lots and lots of old trees and old trees is very important in terms of what they support in terms of dead and decaying habitats.  Adam: Right, so well we're standing by this extraordinary ash tree, I mean, it's extraordinary that there's an ash tree at all, given ash dieback, but it's extraordinary for all sorts of other reasons. But is ash a big part of this woodland?  Clive: In terms of its name, Ashenbank, you you think it should be but but it's it is a component of the site but it's not, the majority species is not ash.   Adam: What is this site then?  Clive: So mostly sycamore and we're in the northern part of Ashenbank where we've got a lot of sycamore and we've got some really big old sweet chestnuts, but there are lovely old oak trees and hornbeam trees.  Adam: Right. And so when we talk about ancient woodland, it's always worth, I suppose, explaining a bit about what we mean because clearly will go, well, that's old. But old for trees can be a whole different sort of thing. So how, what, what, what do you mean when you're talking about ancient woodlands?  Clive: Well, when we say ancient woodland ancient woodland is defined as areas which have been permanently wooded since 1600AD. That's the sort of the the the date.  Adam: Oh right, I didn't realise it was that precise.  Clive: Well, it well, yes, it's roughly when big old estates used to produce maps, so they discovered paper and started drawing maps of what they owned but prior so before this this, the assumption is that if it's wooded then it would have been wooded ever since the Ice Age retreated but managed by mankind for for thousands of years.  Adam: So we're, we're assuming actually that ancient woodland is all it's probably been here since the Ice Age?  Clive: Yes. Yeah.  Adam: So that's why I mean that's it's worth I think pausing on that because it's why when we're talking about ‘oh, we'll have to destroy a bit of woodland for a tree, for a road' sorry, we're talking about taking away a bit of the landscape, which has been there since the Ice Age probably. So that's quite a big deal to have done that.  Clive: Yeah, yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. The the other part of Ashenbank, which is the bit we're in is a more recently wooded area, probably about 200 years old. I have a a map here which is not good for a podcast, but I can show you a map.  Adam: Go on go on, we can describe this. Hold on. I'll hold the microphone and you can describe what we're seeing. So go on, yes.  Clive: So we have a a map here of Ashenbank Wood dating from 1797, which shows the woodland it used to be. I have another map showing the wood as it is today. So here's a map from a couple of years ago, but we're we're actually up here, which in the 1797 map shows fields. And now, now, now it's woods. So so basically, what's happened this Ashenbank used to be owned by Cobham Hall, which is a big estate to the east of Halfpence Lane, so this used to be partly of Cobham Hall Estate and in 1790, as many of these big old estates houses used to do, they used used they they employed a landscape architect to make their their grounds nicer as it were. So it wasn't Capability Brown, but it was a chap called Humphrey Repton who worked on this site from 1790 to about 1880, when he died 1818 when he died. And he landscaped the estate and the view from the house over to here looking west to what is now Ashenbank Wood was obviously important to him. So they actually planted a lot of these big old chestnuts which we walked past, which date from 200 years ago.  Adam: Which is very nice and we often hear about cutting trees down and looking at old maps going ‘oh, we've lost all that wood', here's an example of the reverse to actually that's a good nature story.  Clive: Yeah, yeah, definitely it is. Yes. As you get older, as they get older, these trees there are microhabitats which develop rot pockets, branches fall off, they they rot, big holes develop and that that's these microhabitats which are home to what's called saproxylic species.   Adam: OK, that's a new word, saproxylic?  Clive: Saproxylic. So saproxylics are are basically insects and beetles and flies which only exist in dead and decaying wood. So if these big old trees weren't around, they've got nowhere to live.  Adam: Right, which is why it's useful to have deadwood on the ground. It's not so, it looks untidy, but actually that's often the richest place.  Clive: Indeed. Yeah, yes, but often, but often these insects and beetles are actually in the living tree, not in the in the horizontal, dead and dying stuff. And it's the living trees, which are are why this habitat is so important.  Adam: But I thought you said you said they're living in the living trees, but but saproxylic means they're living in the dead trees?  Clive: But within these big old trees, there are these rot holes and pockets and little microhabitats within the tree...  Adam: Yes, which are dead and that's where they live?   Clive: Where they live yeah that's right.  Adam: Right OK. Yeah, very interesting. OK, very interesting. Now, there's also, I knew I was told, but I'm completely confused by, an idea that I'm told that goes on here of strapping deadwood to live trees. Did I did I misunderstand that?  Clive: No, no, you you didn't misunderstand it. No.   Adam: OK and you're going to show me where this is ?  Clive: Yep. Shall we shall we go, we'll we'll walk there, have a look.  Adam: Alright. Brilliant. So you've taken me to this tree, a very substantial tree, but next to it, this is the a bit of, what, you better explain, because this is really odd and I don't really understand what I'm looking at.  Clive: Right. Well, going back to 1999 when High Speed One was being built, they took out three hectares of Ashenbank Wood along with lots of other woodland in the area. And fortunately, somebody had the idea of of suggesting that we could save some of those big trees they felled and reerecting them against living trees to help them degrade and and become part of the habitat.  Adam: So I mean to describe this, we've got a very big tree. What sort of tree is this?  Clive: So you've got a big, big oak tree.  Adam: That's a big oak, and next to it is 6, 12, I don't know, 30 foot, 40 foot high dead tree, bit of bark. But it's it's not like a small, it's a 40 foot bit of bark which you have propped onto the living tree. Why is it better to have done that than just to leave it on the ground?  Clive: Well, it's about these microhabitats. So I mean, it's not just propped up it's actually strapped to it, so it's actually quite secure.  Adam: It is secure, that's y your health and safety hat on.  Clive: We had to make sure it was strapped up, but vertical dead or decaying wood is equally as important as horizontal, dead and decaying wood.  Adam: OK. Is it different? What, does it do different things?  Clive: The wood doesn't but it attracts different insects and species so that that that's why so. But in most in most woodlands you'll see deadwood as being felled trees which are lying or windblown. You don't often see dead vertical trees.  Adam: I've never seen that.  Clive: Well, they're often well, they're often felled and taken out for firewood or something but they are important as as a sort of microhabitat for these saproxylics. That that's purely why.  Adam: So the saproxylics which are insects which live on deadwood prefer, some prefer the high rise living of the vertical tree rather than the low level bungalow type living. But what what sort of, do you do, don't worry if you don't know, but do you know which insects prefer living vertically?   Clive: I I don't know that.  Adam: You don't. Somebody will, somebody will.  Clive: Yeah somebody will. But if you look at that tree, you'll see that it's a there's a there's a U-shaped crook 2/3 way up and in that there's there's a there's a hole which has probably got water in it. So water gathers from rain and that's that that little microhabitat will be, something will live in it. And if that was horizontal, it wouldn't be there.  Adam: Right, yes, yes. Well that I think this must be, I mean, we've been doing this for a few years. I've never seen that. So that is amazing. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. So I know that the history of this site goes back quite a long way, not just the natural history, but the human history as well, and am I right in saying there's quite quite a lot of sort of Bronze Age heritage here?  Clive: Well, we've got a Scheduled Ancient Monument which has been dated to between 2000 and 1500 BC, which is a big burial mount and it is scheduled and it's, you know, English Heritage monitor it and we have to make sure it's free of trees and it's there to see.  Adam: Right. Wow. And it's interesting you talk about it's there to see because we came and parked in the Woodland Trust car park. Free parking, as is normal in Woodland Trust places, first time though a full car park. We are here midweek during the day. I was surprised to see it's full so talking about visitors, this is clearly a, I mean have I just come at a weird time, have they all come to see the Woodland Trust podcast being made, it's right, it's a popular site. That always feels like contention to me because I know you want to encourage people to come, on the other hand, coming in a sort of, destroys a bit of what we see. How much of a problem are the level of visitors?  Clive: Well, we basically have a path network through Ashenbank Wood which we maintain, we mow, we make sure it's open and safe. So most people walk on those those paths which steers people around the the wood, as it were, so and we we don't stop people from walking off the path but most people don't cause it's, you know, nettles or brambles or whatever. It's difficult to do.  Adam: Right, yes. And keeping dogs on the lead and everything. You've been with the Trust for a long time, haven't you, really. What sort of change have you seen in the the the debate around the natural world in your time here?  Clive: That's a big question.  Adam: Have you, I mean, sort of, it assumes you have seen a change, you might not have seen a change. I mean I the reason I ask it is because it feels to me it's gone up the political agenda, that it's not just, you know, people dismissively talking about crazy tree huggers and let them onto their own thing. It's become more mainstream. Do you think that that's it's become more optimistic, do you think it's become more pessimistic, do you think, you you know, it's become more informed, I suppose?  Clive: Well, I think there's a growing recognition that ancient woodland is a special habitat, but it hasn't quite gone far enough to get total protection. But I think there's a growing realisation that ancient woodland is special and we need to look after it. And I think the politicians probably do understand it, but maybe can't quite make that move to legislate against total protection.  Adam: Yeah. And I think that's part of the Living Legend campaign that the Woodland Trust is organising, isn't it?  Clive: Definitely is. Yeah. Yeah, very much so.  Adam: Well, there were two websites we talked about today. So if you want to get involved in a local campaign, search for ‘Woodland Trust campaigns' and you can find out more about the attempts to get better legal protection for ancient and veteran trees by searching for the Living Legends campaign and of course I hope you get a chance to visit Ashenbank Woods yourself. So until next time, happy wandering.  Thank you for listening to the Woodland Trust Woodland Walks. Join us next month when Adam will be taking another walk in the company of Woodland Trust staff, partners and volunteers. And don't forget to subscribe to the series on iTunes or wherever you are listening. And do give us a review and a rating. If you want to find out more about our woods and those that are close to you, check out the Woodland Trust website. Just head to the visiting woods pages. Thank you. 

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 13th November 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.cambridgesciencecentre.org/Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube| LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-porter-8a0b85121/Becca is a seasoned development and business strategist with over five years in the leadership team at Cambridge Science Centre (CSC). She has played a pivotal role in driving CSC's strategic growth, securing transformative results, including a 50% increase in income and establishing key partnerships that help sustain CSC's mission.Her expertise in fundraising, stakeholder engagement, and business development has been integral to CSC's evolution. Representing CSC at external events, Becca engages with stakeholders across academia, industry, and government, fostering impactful relationships that strengthen the organisation's community presence and reach.Before joining CSC, Becca held the position of Licensing Manager at the RSPB, where she led efforts to negotiate intellectual property rights for product-based partnerships. Her strategies resulted in an increase in profit, underscoring her strong commercial acumen and collaborative approach.With a professional background enhanced by six years of international experience with Carnival Corporation in Miami, Florida, Becca brings a global perspective to her work. Her ability to connect and communicate across diverse sectors reflects her adaptability and understanding of complex business landscapes.Becca's approach is marked by her commitment to expanding CSC's impact and access to science engagement, helping inspire the next generation of learners. Her ongoing efforts to cultivate partnerships and innovate within her field underscore her dedication to making science accessible and engaging for all. https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-g-farrer-ph-d-25a18976/Andrew Farrer is the Head of Programmes and Delivery at Cambridge Science Centre. A biological anthropologist by background, he started at the Centre as a Science Communicator travelling around communities and schools on the Roadshow programme. In his current position, he makes sure the team has what they need to deliver the very best in science communication. His PhD used ancient DNA to understand how the human microbiota (the bacterial community living on and in the human body – and keeping us alive!) changed in Britain over the last 1,000 years. Alongside this, he used his passion for science and interest in theatre to develop a science communication programme to bring together the interdisciplinary academics at the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA – an effort that resulted in new international collaborations. He has just got back from a cycling tour in the country of Georgia, where he evaded angry guard dogs, navigated roads that were active building sites, and managed to avoid falling off until the last day! The trip was amazing though! https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandy-curtis-688a33111/Mandy Curtis is the Head of Exhibitions at Cambridge Science Centre. She has been with the Cambridge Science Centre since its opening in 2013, beginning as a Science Communicator, then progressing through the Education team and into Product Development. In her current role as Head of Exhibitions, Mandy oversees everything that is in and delivered at the Centre. She is also responsible for the Centre's overall look, building maintenance, and alarm systems, as well as keeping the shop stocked with STEM-related items.Previously, Mandy worked in the pharmaceutical industry and as a school lab technician, where she also ran a STEM club. She was actively involved in Scouting in her village for over 15 years, remaining on the Executive Committee after her own children left and leading sessions for science-related badges, along with serving as the camp cook.Mandy enjoys walks along the beach in Norfolk with her very large dog, visiting as often as she can. She also loves having her children and their partners back home, especially since they return to their own homes afterward!  Transcription: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. In July this year, Cambridge Science Centre opened its new building, returning to the real world after having been a science centre without a building for several years. In today's episode, I'm joined by some of their team. Andrew Farrer, Head of Programmes and Delivery, Rebecca Porter, Head of Development, and Mandy Curtis, the Head of Exhibitions. And we'll talk about the trials and tribulations of opening a new building from scratch and the benefits now the site has opened. Paul Marden: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Skip the Queue. Becca, Andrew, Mandy, lovely to see you. Really good to talk to you about the experience that you've had recently at Cambridge Science Centre, returning to the real world and having your own physical building for the Science Centre. Paul Marden: For listeners, I've had a little part to play because Rubber Cheese worked with CSC on the journey building websites. So I know a little bit about what's going on, but there's a whole load of stuff. I'm sure there's loads of anecdotes and stories that you're going to be able to tell us all about the trials and tribulations of building a brand new science centre from scratch. Before we get to that, it would be really nice if we did our icebreaker question. So I'm going to do one for each of you. Okay. So it doesn't matter which order I go in because you're not going to get any benefit from knowing what the question was. All right, so I'm going to start with you, Becca, because you're first. First on my. On my list. Okay. Paul Marden: What one thing would you make a law that isn't one already? Rebecca Porter: Oh, that is very interesting. I'm not sure. the rest of those. Andrew Farrer: The rest of us are feeling a bit nervous at this stage. Yeah, Becca's law is Andrew is no longer allowed in any meeting. Rebecca Porter: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I'll go with that. Paul Marden: That's very specific. I think when I come to power, not if I come to power, I don't think I dive that spec. I might go more broad. It might be about abolishing foods that I cannot abide eating or something like that. Not particularly. Take one of my team out of a meeting. Seems a little bit wasteful. Andrew Farrer: You don't know what I'm like in meetings. Paul Marden: Andrew, what is the biggest mistake you've made in your life? Andrew Farrer: Working with Becca, obviously. No, no. I just digest. Biggest mistake I've made in my life. There's a lot of things in the moment are very stressful and you think, oh, my. What? Why am I here? Why did I do this? Why did I not think more or think less or whatever? But everything that was probably, this is a massive mistake in the moment just turned out to be a really good story in hindsight. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Andrew Farrer: No, I'm happy with all of them. Paul Marden: There's some things that you think, oh, gosh, I really wish I could have deleted that from my memory completely. I spent a year doing a PhD and then dropped out because I realised that I didn't like working in a box on my own. But I don't think I would actually go back and not spend that year doing what I was doing, because it took quite a lot to realise that I don't like sitting in a box on my own and I actually like having other people around me. Yeah. At the time, it didn't, sitting on the bench at Egham Station, deciding, what am I doing with my life? It didn't feel like that was such a great decision that I'd made. Andrew Farrer: No, but they're all part of the sort of fabric that makes up the next decision, aren't they? Paul Marden: So, yeah, the rich tapestry. Andrew Farrer: That's it. That's the rich tapestry of life. Paul Marden: And, Mandy, I'm going to go for one last one, actually. It's not too dissimilar to what were just talking about. What was your dream job when you were growing up? Mandy Curtis: Before I answer that, I just have to give you my answer to Becca's question, because it's something I discussed at a previous job. If I could make one law, it would be that there was only one type of black sock. Rebecca Porter: That's actually a brilliant answer. Paul Marden: Again, hyper specific. Mandy Curtis: No. Trying to pair up all those black socks and none of them are quite the same. That is so annoying. So, yeah, that would be my law. Paul Marden: I don't think I need. I think I could broaden it and just say, there is only one type of sock, because my daughter's sock drawer is not black. There's not a single black sock in there. Mandy Curtis: I couldn't do that to Andrew. Andrew Farrer: You leave my socks out of it. Mandy Curtis: My actual question, when I was small, I had, in my mind, I wanted to be a scientist. Throughout all the jobs I've ever had, that's pretty much what I've been. And the job I had before this, I worked as a school lab technician and my boss came to me one day and said, “I've just got an email from Cambridge Science Centre. Looking for science communicators. I think you'd be really good at it. Why don't you apply? And I did.” And that was when it was, yeah, this is what I should always have done. Paul Marden: So interesting, isn't it? That's not a natural leap, is it, from a lab technician in a school to being a science communicator. But there's so much about teaching which is just telling the story and engaging people and making them want to do stuff, isn't it? Mandy Curtis: Yeah. It's surprising that there are a lot of parallels. Yeah. The thinking on your feet being one of the biggest ones. Rebecca Porter: I actually used to want to be a marine biologist when I was younger, and then I realised growing up that I'm nowhere near the sea where I am now, so that was slightly problematic. And also I saw the movie Jaws for the first time as a child and it terrified me and I quickly changed my mind about that. Paul Marden: Okay, let's segue from Mandy in your science communicator role, because I think it's a good segue. Let's talk a little bit about the journey that you've been on at Cambridge Science Centre over the last few years. Andrew, I'm going to start talking to you, mate, because I remember vividly last year I was at the association of Science and Discovery Centres conference and you were on stage with the guys from We The Curious, and you were talking about what it was to be a science centre without a building. Yeah. And the work that you guys were doing in the community for the listeners that weren't at the conference. Let's just take a step back and talk about the background of Cambridge Science Centre. You had a physical building, didn't you? Paul Marden: And you moved out of there and you spent a period of time being remote, virtual. I don't know what the quite the right term is, but you spent a while on the road. What prompted that to leave the previous centre? Andrew Farrer: Yeah. So that question that was being asked in the conference that what is a science centre without the building? It's really something that's very much in the fabric, the DNA of Cambridge Science Centre. The organisation is 11 years old now and through that time being an organisation that has a science centre and also being an organisation that does the outreach, which is what we would call like going out into the community and into schools and being in the spaces of the people that you're most wanting to engage, both of those things have existed in parallel and that there are strengths to both having a physical centre and being able to do that kind of Outreach and Cambridge Science Centre from the very beginning that brought those two things together and maximised the benefits of both in service of the other, really. Andrew Farrer: So what if you had all of the assets of a full science centre, but you could take them out on the road? What if you have the flexibility of kits that could be taken out the road, that you could do them in a space that you control? So that has always been part of things. We've had, you know. The new Science Centre that has just opened is the third permanent location that the organisation has had in its lifetime. And the decision to leave the previous one was something that was taken by the whole team. We got everyone around the table. This was post COVID. We were still coming out of having been truly remote. We're all about being hands on with science, which is very difficult in the world where you're not allowed touch anything or stand close to anyone, you know. Andrew Farrer: So we had to do a lot of stuff to respond to that. And then we came out of that situation, world came out of that situation and were sort of reconsidering what we wanted to do and how we wanted to do it. And the Science Centre we had up until that point, until 2022, you know, had been a fabulous space. We've done some amazing stuff in it. We were very closed of what we've done there. But were just finding with the goals we had, with what we wanted to move on to, it was no longer a space that could fit that set of targets. So the question, what was Science Centre without a building? Wasn't that question stepping up because we decided to lose the building? Andrew Farrer: It was kind of, it became a bit more of a focus, but really about the fixed space. Taking a step back for a moment while we really thought about what we wanted. And then we got the amazing opportunity that I'm sure we'll be talking about in a sec with the Science park and Trinity College, which brought that having a fixed space back up on par with the Science Centre without a building. And those two are still. They've always been, they were and they are continuing to be in parallel. And we're just about ready to open up one of our new pop up sign centres. That would be a space out in New England which is going to run there for the future as well, which will run in parallel to this fixed space. Andrew Farrer: So it's not a new question for us, it will never be an old question for us. It is what Cambridge Science Homeset is brilliant. Paul Marden: And during that period where you were without a fixed home, what really worked well for you, what was effective about that outreach programme and that was a became the sole focus for a period of time?Andrew Farrer: I mean were building on what was what we've been learning and what had been working well for that point I guess the last nine years. Yeah. So we knew that our exhibits, our hands on exhibits where you can, you don't just see a phenomenon, you can experience that moment, you've been affected, they're all possible. And so we could take them out. And we'd done that before with setting up sort of science engagement zones in banks and leisure centres. The corner of ASDA one time I think and we evolved that during just after Covid into these pop up science into these fully fledged kind of spaces that were on sort of par with the fixed space. Andrew Farrer: And we really lent into that, created these full, effectively full science centres with those exhibits, with the shows, with the activities, with the science communicators who could have the conversations with people and engage with the kids and answer questions and have a bit of fun and have a laugh, all that kind of stuff. In spaces that were underused in the community. We could take over empty shop units. We were in balance of rural museums. We've been all over the place and we are in those communities. We become part of the communities in the spaces. They already know it. Yeah. And that sort of eases that sort of barrier. Oh, I've got to go to the science place. Because suddenly the place part of that is their place. Yeah. And we're all about making the science. Andrew Farrer: It's as open and fun as possible and building up with whatever level anyone walks in with. So that was, it really was really kind of having the opportunity to hone that ability to create the proper full science centre spaces. And in getting that honed that raised our level on well, what is the fixed science centre? If you can have a fixed thing, what can you do bigger and better there? Which in Eintrum Nadia will want to speak to later. Because some of the new exhibits are phenomenal and they come out of the learning we've had from being on the road and being able to engage people in their spaces and give them a reason now to come to this space. Paul Marden: I'm guessing that when you go out into their space rather than making them come to you get to meet and see very different people. You know, the barrier that exists in somebody having to come to your building means there's a lot of people, there's a lot of young people, there's A lot of families for whom a great day out is not automatically thought of, you know, when they're thinking about what they're going to do at the weekend, they might not necessarily think of a science centre because it's just not what they consider to be fun. But if you go out to them, into their spaces where they are familiar, in the corner of Asda, in the Rural Museum or whatever, you're. You're getting closer to the people that don't normally walk into a science centre. Andrew Farrer: Absolutely, yeah. It's all about. Every single person has some form of barrier that they have to deal with. And, you know, many people have many more barriers than others. No matter what we do, there are still barriers to overcome, but it's about dropping those as low as you can and thinking about getting people across them and supporting them and getting them across them. So, I mean, absolutely, if you say if you're in their space, you remove the whole suite of barriers that exist into travelling to a fixed science centre, which is something we're thinking about and trying to then reduce those. For the fixed science centre. There are other barriers that apply. Andrew Farrer: Even though you're in their space and you've still got to do a lot of thinking and a lot of work to make sure it's an inviting space that they feel they're able to come into, that they can then get comfortable in, and then they can start asking questions and playing with things and break that kind of, oh, it's not for me bubble. Because it definitely is for everyone. You want each other play. Paul Marden: Yeah. Even so, making it an inviting space and making them want to take that step over the threshold into wherever the space is that you are. I've watched kids I'm thinking of a year ago, I was at the London Transport Museum and they had a big exhibition all around sustainability in their exhibition space, which is, I don't know, ⅓ or 3/4 of the way around the museum. And you could just see these kids just stood at the edge watching because they didn't feel confident that they could step into the space and immerse themselves into what was happening in that space. And you've just got to. You've got to make it easy for them to take that step over the threshold, haven't you? Andrew Farrer: Absolutely, yeah. And it's the reason that we have so many different ways of engaging, that the exhibits are there with the activities are there, that the shows are there, that the communicators are there, because people will do that in different ways. What they're comfortable starting to approach, you know, is different from the depth you can give them later. And people will do it in very different ways. But one of the early pop up science centres we had a day where we had, we partnered with a group from the University of Cambridge called Chaos with a student science engagement team. Paul Marden: Right. Andrew Farrer: And their name is apt, but they're brilliant. They're brilliant. And they were all around the earth and all of these different activities and it was really interesting because we noted that, you know, almost to a Percy, everyone walked in, every kid, every adult and they went straight to our exhibits. Not because Chaos wasn't inviting, not because they didn't have cool things, not because they were pushing people away in any way. But it was exactly as you say it was that moment to be like, I don't know, this space, here's a thing that's non threatening, it's not going to ask me a question. But the Chaos were asking kind of questions that were going to, you know, they were going to get at someone for. But you don't know that when you're first walking. Andrew Farrer: No, you play with the exhibit, you start to, you know, that's the safe thing, you start to see what it's doing and then you receive. People build up the confidence, exactly as you say, and then they kind of wander over and suddenly they were just doing laps of the space were in. Just like repeat visiting every one of these activities. Brilliant. You know, and that's a mini version of the journey we want to take people on across their lives. Paul Marden: Yeah. Okay, so question for all three of you then. What was the motivation then really behind returning to a fixed building? Was it an aspiration that you always had, that you wanted to return to a fixed centre or what was the driver for that? Rebecca Porter: We've absolutely always had an aspiration to have a fixed venue in Cambridge. Obviously the clue is in the name Cambridge Science Centre. And we knew that we needed that nucleus, that hub that we could operate all of our other engagements from. And certainly from a supporting organisation perspective, it's very useful for us when we're having those conversations with external stakeholders about the opportunities to get involved with a physical space as well as our outreach programme. So certainly from that point of view, we had an objective to find one. Interestingly, we'd done a piece of work with a group, there's a network in the city called Cambridge Ahead and as part of Cambridge Ahead they have a young advisory committee and we'd done a scoping exercise with the young advisory committee Thinking about that positioning, where we wanted to be. Rebecca Porter: And the key takeaway from their research was that we needed a sort of peripheral location, so an edge of city location that was accessible, that could work for, work well for schools, but would also still allow us to have that public engagement. And for us as an organisation, we really wanted to deepen our relationship with some of the communities that were existing a bit on the margins of the city, particularly those in the north that do suffer from varying levels of deprivation. And Cambridge is a very interesting place because despite the fact that it's got this really illustrious heritage and it's seen as being very affluent, actually it's the most unequal city in the uk, or certainly in England. Paul Marden: Oh, is it really? Rebecca Porter: Yeah. And so we wanted to be able to have our physical space closer to those communities that need more access, need more support, more guidance, so that we could bridge a gap between them and between the Cambridge Science park, which is our new home, but not just the science park, the wider ecosystem and the other research and innovation parks. So, yes, absolutely. We always had an objective to get another physical space operating. Paul Marden: Lovely. So, Becca, I'm guessing this doesn't all come for free and that somebody's got to fund the work to get the centre together. And that's your job really, isn't it, to find people to help you do that, say, how'd you go about doing that? Rebecca Porter: So absolutely everything that we do is completely reliant on the support of like minded organisations and individuals. So we go about in lots of different ways. We have a wonderful board of trustees who are very engaged with the work that we do and they help to make introductions to us in their networks. But it really is a case of going out and doing a lot of footwork, understanding what organisations are operating in our space and what their objectives are in terms of community engagement and how do we align with that. So there's a lot of research that goes on in the background to figure out who we should be talking to. Rebecca Porter: It's wonderful being in a city like Cambridge because 9 times out of 10, most of the companies we talk to do have some objective to do something around STEM engagement in particular. And they're also very supportive of our own objective, which is to widen participation and increase diversity. So they understand that the work that we're doing with those children from the most underserved communities is absolutely vital. So that makes it quite an easy story, quite a compelling story to tell. But we are, we're hugely lucky to have the supporters that we do. And I think key supporters for us are obviously the Cambridge Science park team who enabled the transition into our new venue. Because it was, it all seemed to just line up perfectly really that our own internal discussions around where we wanted to position ourselves. Rebecca Porter: We knew we wanted to deepen our own relationships with these various communities. We knew we needed some kind of peripheral centre space. Unbeknownst to us at the time, but happening in parallel, the Science park team were also considering their relationship with their neighbouring communities and how they can enhance that and do more. Because the Science park is actually, it's a very porous space. So not all of the research and innovation parks are quite the same. But Cambridge Science park absolutely wants to be open to its local communities. It wants them to come in, spend time in the green spaces there and understanding a bit about the different companies that are working within the park. And the Science park as well as the main land owner, which is Trinity College University of Cambridge, again are very keen to support STEM engagement where they can. Rebecca Porter: So it felt like they, our objectives at the time as well as the Science Park's objectives just meshed together beautifully and that resulted in us having this transformational opportunity to be inside the heart of the Science park and alongside that in wider discussions with some of the stakeholders of the park. Specifically were introduced to some of the property development companies that are operating in there who again were very supportive of what we're trying to achieve, but also had the vision to understand that not only are we supporting the local communities, but we're offering a conduit for supporting their tenants. So how can we help them to realise their tenants ambitions? And so they've been very supportive as well. Rebecca Porter: And we're also incredibly lucky to have a suite of organisations that we refer to as our Executive Council, who are our corporate partners that are the lifeblood of our organisation. Their funding and their support underpins everything that we do. So I want to just recognise our Executive Council members in particular, but also the key stakeholders for us with the new centre are the Science Park, Trinity College, Brockton Everlast, an organisation called LifeArc and ARM the microprocessing chip company. So yes, they're all major stakeholders and we're very lucky to have them. Paul Marden: That's amazing. So the Executive Council, that's quite interesting. What do they have some influence over the work that you do and the direction that you take? It's more than just them handing over sponsorship money, it's actually an engagement in what you do. Rebecca Porter: Absolutely. Nothing that we do is transactional, so we don't ever take anyone's money and run. We always try to offer reciprocal programme opportunities, staff engagement opportunities, and with our executive council members, they really do help shape and influence the trajectory of the organisation. So we have regular meetings with them, we talk to them about what our plans are, where they think there may be opportunities that we aren't perhaps looking at, that we could be exploring or should be exploring. And they certainly do have that. That level of influence over the direction of the organisation in general. Paul Marden: And then I suppose the choice of the location is partly driven by those relationships that you built with Trinity College and the Science park. And I guess it was collaborative, the choice of the location itself. Yeah, you didn't go looking for a building with some shortlist. There was. You built a partnership with these people and together you found the space that worked for all of you. Rebecca Porter: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, the space that we're currently occupying is a pre existing building, so it's called the Trinity Centre and it actually was a conferencing space with a catering facility on site as well as the park barbers, interestingly. And so through the relationship with Trinity College and through the discussions with the team in the park, we recognise that actually the space could be working a bit harder, not just for the science park, but for the wider community. And so we essentially repurposed one half of the ground floor of that existing building and Mandy's done a fabulous job turning that space into what is now our new Science Centre. So, yes, I mean, personally, I think having been in that space a lot, if you didn't know it was a conference centre before we took it over, I don't think you'd ever guess that. Rebecca Porter: So, yeah, it's been really wonderful. Paul Marden: You just cued me up perfectly to turn to Mandy. How do you go about filling a space with all the amazing exhibits to make it from a conference venue into this exciting and inviting science centre? How did you even go about doing that? Did somebody give you a blank sheet of paper and tell you off you go, just do whatever you like? Mandy Curtis: Well, pretty much it was a blank slate to work with. But then of course, we've got all our experience from the years leading up to this. So we've got a suite of exhibits that we know work and we know which ones we wanted to take forward, which ones we wanted to build on and expand on. So although in some ways it was a blank slate, it was very much a guided blank slate. So it's still a. For a Science centre. It's still a relatively small space, so we made the decision early on that we wouldn't have themed areas. So we're not big enough to have a space corner and a biology corner. So we've gone for an experiential centre. So you come in for the experience, you come in for one of the most. The thing for me is intergenerational play and learning. Mandy Curtis: So families coming in together, there's something for everyone. So that led the thinking and the decision making with exhibits and I reached out to lots of different people, existing standing exhibit makers, and some people have never made anything like this before. So we've got a real mix here. But what was important was that it's not somewhere where you walk, where the kids walk in, press a button and walk away. It was about prolonged active engagement. So each exhibit has layers of interaction. So you can come in, do one thing, come back another time and do something different or within the same visit, you can build on what you're doing. So, yeah, it's very much about the experience. Paul Marden: So is there an aspiration for the kids and the families to revisit to you? Do you want to create this space where they want to return several times over the space of a year or even as they grow up? You're supporting them through different things that interest them? Mandy Curtis: Absolutely. That's. That's very much what it's about. We have a membership where you want to create the feeling of belonging, of being. This is a place to come with annual membership, you can come as many times as you like. Lots of the exhibits will be the same, but because of the way we've made them and we've prepared them, there's always something different to do with them. And also we have a programme of shows and lab activities that constantly change, so there's always something different and new to do in the space. Paul Marden: Have you got particular audiences in mind that you want to appeal, make the space appealing to? Mandy Curtis: Yeah, we have a very specific audience and I call that everybody. That everything here can be reached by anybody. That's. Yeah, I don't exclude or include anybody. That's why. That's part of the layering. So younger kids, less able kids, older people, there's something here for everyone. I mean, obviously we have an age range for children that is most suitable, but there are also things for younger kids. There's. I mean, quite often we get families coming in and the adults are saying, well, this is way too good for just kids. And that's exactly how I feel about it as well. It's. It's a family place, it's for pretty much any age group, any. Any abilities. Yeah. Paul Marden: So how do you make that. If you're appealing to everyone, how do you make it more inclusive to kids with challenges? Kids with send difficulties, for example? How do you provide something that can enrich everybody's understanding of science? Mandy Curtis: It's really about having some familiar things here in two different ways. So there's familiarity in that. We've got some of our classic exhibits on site, so if people have ever been to one of our previous sites, there'll be things that they recognise from there, but also bringing in things from the outside world, from their world at home. So one of the exhibits is a paper plane launcher. I mean, who hasn't made a paper plane? So it's stuff that they're familiar with, but come here and do it and it just brings out a whole new level. So we talk about ways you can build a better paper plane, ways you can adjust your paper plane, and then, of course, just putting it through the launcher is just incredible fun. So it's taking stuff that people know about and can relate to and that's really important. Mandy Curtis: So some of the, some concepts that we want to get across are potentially outside of people's experiences completely. But if we can present it in a way that starts at level that they're familiar with, they can relate to and engage with, then there's a progression through and we're able to get concepts across that you might, if you went straight in at the top level, you just, it just wouldn't engage them in the same way. Rebecca Porter: To add to that, I just wanted to say that our magic pixie dust, if you will, that brings everything to life, really are our team of science communicators. So that also, you know, that's what, you know, brings every experience in the Science Centre to life is our wonderful team. Paul Marden: Yeah, I mean, that's this, that. That's like every good attraction, isn't it? It's never about the physical space, it's about the feelings that you get and it's the people that are there that help you build that feeling, isn't it? That's why it's a magical place that makes people want to come back, isn't it? How do you also serve that very local community? Have you found that by locating yourselves on the science park, where you are close to those areas of multiple deprivation within the city? Have you found that just mere locality is enough to encourage people in or are you actively doing things to bring that local audience to you? Rebecca Porter: Absolutely both. So we're already doing a lot with one particular community. There's a part of the city called King's Hedges and we see a group of children there once a week for an after school club and have just started transitioning that club from their own space. We've been operating it in their community centre but now they are coming to us, which is fabulous. And one thing that I've really loved since we've opened the new venue is our proximity to those particular communities. An example of how much more accessible we are is that we did a soft launch before we did our major public opening in the summer with some local schools, one of which was King's Hedges Primary School, and the teachers were able to just walk the children to us and that's never been possible before. Rebecca Porter: And we've got much bigger plans to expand the community focused piece to other parts of the city because we would really love to have at least four days a week where we're running an after school club of some description for groups around the city that face additional barriers. So, yeah, we are all over that. Paul Marden: That's amazing. It sounds so exciting. I run a coding club for kids at my daughter's school. A lot of it is about the engagement that the kids have. They don't get that enrichment outside in those STEM technology. So for you guys to be reaching out to that local community and offering that after school provision for them to be engaged in science, then there's a group of kids that just must lap that up. They must love it. Rebecca Porter: Absolutely. And I think Andrew's always said that for us, we obviously there's lots of extracurricular clubs. You've got drama clubs and dance clubs and acting clubs, but very rarely do you come across anything science focused. And what we would love to see moving forward is that's normalised that actually you can go to an after school club, that it's all about science and it's just part of the everyday offering that's available to children, particularly those local to us. Paul Marden: And have you found, I mean, it's probably too early to tell, but have you found that it's beginning to blur the lines of the science park into the community? Because there's something about Cambridge, isn't there? And the whole he's a world leading hub of science and driving science forward and making science commercially valuable happens at that point where the university meets the rest of the community around it. Are you seeing that you bringing the kids into the space is beginning to open their eyes to what is possible for them on their own doorstep. In terms of science. Andrew Farrer: Yeah, I think we are seeing the first steps of that, you know, in your previous questions and what Mandy and Becca have said, I think they've, you know, referenced and alluded to the layers. We're talking about the new centre as if, you know, it's open and therefore it's done. It's not done, we're not done, you know, and yes, getting those exhibits in there and all of the work that Mandy put into making them so generalist enough in the sense that, you know, these age ranges, these ability ranges, these, you know, whatever range you want to talk about can access them. But then it is, what's the programming? We only really launched, the soft launch was end of June. The big launch was, you know, end of July. Really. Andrew Farrer: That only covers 2 of the audiences that we're on, which is the schools and the sort of public inverted commas. There's the everyone this half term we've started that work with the North Cambridge Community Partnership Club that has been moved in that Becca was talking about. But that is very much step one next year is all about filling those four afternoon slots with such a variety that work in such a different way. It's about bringing in the schools throughout the days, throughout the week. It's about flexing those weekends. As Mandy said, it's about finding what all of these different organises, local and more further afield want, need, what their questions are, things like that. Andrew Farrer: We're here to respond so we can create sessions that the generalist concept of the centre might support those in the send community, but we can create a session where it's okay. This will be the quieter session. This will be where we'll have timings on the exhibits that allow will change the lighting. And we're still sort of exploring and thinking about how we do that. Right. So that the experiences is just as good, just as strong, just as inspiring and isn't affected by the fact that something might have been slightly altered. And there's a flip side to that. There are people who are much better at engaging when there's a lot going on. It's almost like there's a hyper sensitivity. There's things to think about on that side as well. Andrew Farrer: So this is a project that 2025 will see a lot of work on, but really is a never ending process. As long as there are people and as long as there are individuals which can help deliverance, then we are there to make sure. That everyone gets the access and that means using all of the physical kit, we've got all of these physical spaces and our team to respond as, you know, as much as we can. So. Paul Marden: So is there much for you? Did your team of science communicators have to do much to get themselves ready to return to the physical space? Or did they walk in the door and it just felt like home straight away? And they were delivering what they've been delivering for 11 good years? Andrew Farrer: Yeah, there was an element of coming home and there's an element of this is what we do. Because as I said, the outreach and the permeable space are singing in harmony, as it were. But this new space does have. It's new and it's bigger and better and more accessible than anything we've been able to do for. And that has brought things that we haven't experienced before. So we, you know, we made ourselves as kind of theoretically ready as we could. There have been challenges both from a practical running an event venue to how do we. How do we do silent science communication when we are constantly learning? We've changed things already, you know, we're flexing and responding and they affect the things that we wanted to bring in the future that I was referencing before they change each plan. Andrew Farrer: And we have a lovely timeline, it's very exciting, very big map, lots of post its that shows where we want things to start happening, but each of those responds to that. So there's no one single ready. And again, even when you are as close to ready as might exist, just like the programmes that we offer, that readiness evolves as well. You keep learning. Paul Marden: Of course. So what were those challenges then? What can we share with listeners? What were some of the things that if you had another swing at it, you'd do differently through this process that you've gone through this transition? Andrew Farrer: That links back to your, what was your biggest mistake? We only knew we learned because we tried something that didn't in theory worked, you know. Yeah, I mean, there's just some sort of like general practical thinking. You implement a system and then only when it's actually put through its paces you realise, oh, hang on, there's this like scenario tangent that we haven't thought about. There's, you know, there's a few things on that front about practically running the. Running the space. As Becca said, that the science park is porous, but we are one of the big things that is now bringing the public in. So there's, you know, murmuring is in that as well because that porosity has been used in the way it hasn't been previously. And we've been thinking about when are people coming during the day, when are they. Andrew Farrer: Their repeat visits happening? Which means when do we cycle the lab activities in the show? Talking about, you know, we can do a different show every day but you know, that's probably overkill because people aren't going to come quite every day. But actually what cycle are they coming on so that we can make sure that we, you know, we're providing sort of an awe inspiring moment and a set of curiosity experiences on a wide variety of different topics so that we can find that thing that sparks everyone. Mandy Curtis: Just to add to what Andrew said, I think it would be hard to label anything we've done as a mistake because we wouldn't be where we are now if we hadn't gone through the process we did. So even stuff, very few things that didn't quite work out well, we've learned from and we've moved on and we've built on. So everything has, I feel everything we've done and has been a positive experience. It's all been, you know, it's all been good. Paul Marden: It's a very philosophical approach to it, isn't it? The idea that it's never done, the project isn't over, it just continually, you know, it needs continual tweaking and continual improvement. Andrew Farrer: It's a scientific approach, if anything.Mandy Curtis: Much as I promised I would be laying down in a dark room by now, I'm not and I won't be. And we're still, you know, there's, we're planning, we're moving forward and looking to next year at the programmes and what we can offer. So yeah, there's always something more to do. Paul Marden: Once again, you're queuing me up for my next question, which was really what do the goals look like for the future? You've done this massive project, returning to a physical space and getting it ready and opening it up and welcoming people in. Where do you go now? What are the aspirations for the next couple of years? Mandy Curtis: It's more of the same, better, more different, looking at different approaches at different audiences. We're going to be. I'm already planning and writing the STEM Tots programme for next year. So that's the younger kids, the preschoolers, so there's new audiences all the time to move into. There's school holidays, you know, kids have been over here over the summer for the next school holiday, they're going to want something different. So we're thinking about that, how we can encourage people to come back, what we can offer, what different things, different collaborations. However many companies on the science park. I don't know, Becca probably does. There's people we haven't even spoken to yet. So there's just opportunities everywhere still. Rebecca Porter: For us, I would say that we are, it's definitely a programmes expansion piece next year. So we need to really solidify what we've got now with our new venue and start building out those different audiences and what the different programmes for each audience will look like. And then it's also making sure that our Popup science centre in Wisbeach continues to go from strength to strength. And so certainly, although we've got this fabulous new venue, we don't lose focus on the outreach work that we're doing as well as building up, building momentum around our support. And Andrew's doing a really wonderful job putting some work into our logic model and our theory of change. And so again it's mapping that out and then how we can link that to, to our, to the work that we're doing. Rebecca Porter: The supporting organisations, what role can they play in pushing forward our logic model? In particular, we talk a lot about emotions, skills and actions as being what underpins our logic model and it's how can our different partners lean into those things? Are there organisations that want to support the emotions piece? Can we do a skills focused programme with another organisation? So there's still lots of mapping to be done, but hugely exciting stuff. Andrew Farrer: Opening the doors to the centre was really only the beginning. Now it's making the absolute amount, squeezing every bit of juice out of this amazing fruit that we've been lucky enough to be supported to build for ourselves. Paul Marden: Stretching your analogy just a little bit there, but it's a very good point. Andrew Farrer: What analogy if you can't stretch it to its unfathomable limits? Paul Marden: Andrew, one last question because I think a couple of you have mentioned the Popup Science Centre. Tell me a little bit about what is that and what's the plan for the future? Andrew Farrer: Yeah, so our Popup science centres are fully fledged science centres. They appear in community spaces. So the ones that I mentioned earlier and they feature our hands on exhibits, they feature our shows, they feature our activities and we are in November moving into a empty well, it's currently empty, but we're about to fill it chalk unit right in the heart of Wisbeach in the Fenland area. So the Fenland region which is on the north of Cambridge, one of these areas that if transport around the area is difficult, sort of deprivation in that area. But there are some great pieces of science, technology, engineering and maths, you know, organisations working in those areas as well. Andrew Farrer: But it's one of those places where for all of the efforts we put into breaking down the barriers to come into the fixed space, that's one of the areas that we're really struggling. So we're going to that there'll be a fully fledged science centre which will be open to schools and the public on those points through the year to go in, to explore, to have these workshops, to have these shows, to engage, to chat. We are kind of, this is coming off the back of, one of these 18 months long project where we've had these pop up science centres sort of around Fenland. This is kind of where we're settling in and really sort of digging our heels in a little bit. So sort of phase two will start to become much more co development with the community. Andrew Farrer: We've been able to spend 18 months getting to know the people of this area and then importantly getting to know us. It's now exactly back to what I was talking about earlier. It's been sort of equivalent of the kids walking in and seeing the exhibits and having a play. Now we're ready, both of us and them to have this conversation about well what should a time centre be for you specifically? And honestly we don't know what that will be. But next summer Cambridge Centre and Wis beach will become this whole new thing where there might be forensic escape rooms happening. There could be some giant chain reactions going on with balls and bean bags flying everywhere. People could be building cardboard cities. Andrew Farrer: I've got no idea because it's actually not down to us, it's down to the people who want to answer the questions that are part of their lives. Paul Marden: Wowzers. It's just amazing. I'm so excited for you. I'm so pleased because it's been a project that I've been watching from the sidelines growing. I'm so pleased that the project's not over and that there's an aspiration to really push this thing and squeeze it for all it's worth. Andrew Farrer: Just like my analogies. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Lastly, we always ask for a book recommendation and you're going to bankrupt me because I've invited three of you on here. So I'm going to get three book recommendations. So what are your recommendations, Becca? Rebecca Porter:  First, first for you, I would say I'm actually a huge fan of an author called Philippa Gregory. And so my favourite book would be The White Queen by Philippa, which is all about Elizabeth Woodville. And Shima was married to I believe Edward IV during the Plantagenet era. So I love a bit of historical fiction. So that's my one. Paul Marden: Aha. Okay. So my colleague and co host Oz, big into historical reenactment. I'm sure that would be a book that would appeal to him. Andrew, what about you mate? What's your recommendation? Andrew Farrer: I have a book this is about I've had for years. I mean it's a kid's book really. It's a book called Aquila by someone called Andrew Norris and it's one of these books that it's about a short book. I keep revisiting it every now and again. It's just a story I've always engaged with. But it's funny, looking at it now, it almost seems very relevant. So it's about two young high school lads who on a school field trip get passed away from the rest of their class and end up falling into a cave and discovering a Roman centurion skeleton and by him what turns out to be an alien spaceship. So the navy spaceship have been on earth for some 2,000 years. Andrew Farrer: And the rest of the book is they don't want to just tell everyone else that the spaceship is here and it's them figuring out okay, well we can't take it home now because we're on a feeder trip so we've got to figure out a way to come back and get it home without anyone seeing it. And then they've got to learn how it works. And it turns out that it's kind of got AI function I guess and it can talk but because it was previously used by Roman, it taught in Latin. So they have to learn Latin. It turns out it's run by water. They figure out how much water. And it's a really brilliant story about these kids solving all of these problems around having quite that fun Canadian spaceship. Andrew Farrer: But at the same time their teachers are aware that these two kids who've classically not engaged at school at all are suddenly asking all of these really weird non class related questions. And yeah, they figure out the whole spaceship thing but think it's story they've made up for themselves. And so I give them the actual support and engagement they need in school to learn better than they were. But everyone misses that the spaceship is totally real, that these kids are flying off like Mount Everest on the weekend. So I love that. Paul Marden: Excellent. That sounds really good. That sounds like one I need to read to my daughter. Mandy, last but not least, what's your recommendation? Mandy Curtis: Just to say Andrew's book was made into a kids' TV series that I remember watching. Yeah, I've just. The most recent book I've read was one from way back. Not fiction. It was Life on Earth, David Attenborough and I reread read it often. It was the series that really sent me on my way to where I am now when I. I was doing unusually a zoology A level and my teacher played us the videos of Life on Earth and yeah, I've never got, never moved away from it. So yeah, that's the book I've read most recently and would recommend. Paul Marden: What, what a recommendation as well. That's a lovely one. So, dear listeners, as you know, if you go over to X and retweet the show, tweet and say I want Becca or Andrew or Mandy's book and the first person that does that will get that book sent to them. And I think as we got through recommendations, three of you could choose any one of those and we'll make an exception and bankrupt the marketing budget. Guys, it has been absolutely lovely talking to you and finding out a little bit more about the story of the journey that you've been on recently. And I think we should get back together again soon and find out how the pop up is going and what's actually filling that vacant shop because I think that's a really exciting proposition. But thank you for joining me today. Paul Marden: It's been absolutely marvellous. Mandy Curtis: Thank you. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, SkiptheQueue.fm. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Help the entire sector:Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsFill in your data now (opens in new tab)

The RSPB says more than 1,300 protected birds of prey have been killed across the UK over the past 15 years. The Birdcrime report blames rogue gamekeepers who, it claims, are more concerned about protecting the gamebirds on their shooting estates. But the British Association for Shooting and Conservation says its members have "absolutely zero tolerance" of the illegal shooting of birds of prey.The Green Alliance says the number of ruminant livestock in the UK needs to be reduced to reach Net Zero targets, and that farmers should be supported to change their businesses.And the British Alpaca Society estimates there are around 45 thousand alpacas in the UK, kept for breeding and for their high quality fleece. Alpaca breeders use something called a spit-off or a spit-test to see if their females are pregnant with a cria, or baby alpaca. We go along to see the test in action!Presented by Anna Hill Produced by Heather Simons

We hear warnings from the Country Land and Business Association that changing tax rules for farms could close many down. The RSPB says any cuts to the farming budget would put nature and climate targets at risk. To start our week looking at greenhouse gas emissions from livestock, we speak to Professor Sir Charles Godfrey of the Oxford Martin School who says we should be producing less and better meat.Presented by Charlotte Smith and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

Mark and Rachel with the second part of their visit the island of Islay, the southernmost island of the Inner Hebrides.The RSPB has two reserves on the island, one at Loch Gruinart and one at The Oa, which is where Mark and Rachel met warden David Dinsley to try and spot one of the bird species Islay is known for, the chough.Artist Heather Dewar was born on Islay in the 1940s, and although she moved away as a child, she returned regularly until she retired there. We chat to her about what makes Islay such a special place and hear some of her childhood memories.Islay is in a strategically important place in terms of shipping and trade. And between 1914 and 1918 the waters around it were an important route for troopships. Two incidents brought the First World War to the doors of the islanders, and author Les Wilson tells us about one of them and the impact it had on Islay. We also hear about a rather remarkable American flag which was made on the island and has been returned there after spending quite some time in the USA.And we couldn't visit Islay, and island with ten, nearly 11 distilleries, and not talk about whisky. People come from all across the world to visit the distilleries and taste the drams with their unique Islay style. Rachel chats to Rachel MacNeill from the Islay Whisky Academy about how she gets people passionate about whisky. And we visit the Kilchoman Distillery to hear from Sharon McHarrie about how they are continuing some of the old traditions in their comparatively young distillery.

“An early morning wander through RSPB Lakenheath Fen, Suffolk, on a bright May morning. According to my bird identification app, throughout the recording, you'll hear sedge warblers, blackbirds, a pheasant, […]

Our lovely nature presenter and ranger Kate Martin is leaving to join our friends at the RSPB, helping to care for wildlife in Scotland. Here are some of Kate's best bits and few moments from behind the scenes. On behalf of everyone at the National Trust, from our listeners and from the podcast team, thank you and wishing you a great and adventure filled future.

Well, the summer's over, but for the last week in the southwest of England the sun's been shining while autumn's been gently easing itself into the air - and Newsweek is back with a full, ripe crop of six conversations. ffinlo Costain speaks to: Emma Toovey from the Environment Bank - 1'10'' Leona McDonald, the director of Golden Hooves - 9'12'' Andrew Barbour from Mains of Fincastle - 15'58'' Bishop Takalani Mufamadi from the Southern African Faith Communities' Environment Institute - 25'46'' Emma Bell from The Open University - 40'22'' Alice Groom from the RSPB - 53'24''

It's party conference season and Farming Today will be covering the three main conferences. This week, the Liberal Democrats meet in Brighton. Their relative success in the recent General Election has given them a boost, and many of their new constituencies gained this summer are in rural areas. The big question is budget. Before the election the Liberal Democrats promised £1 billion a year more, for the Environmental Land Management Scheme which replaces old EU payments in England. Different changes are being made in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Since the election, it's emerged the Conservative government underspent its DEFRA budget by £358m in the previous parliament. We speak to the environment food and rural affairs spokesperson for the Lib Dems, Tim Farron.All week we're taking stock of birdlife on farms. The RSPB says farmland bird numbers are still declining for some species, and more needs to be done to improve numbers through habitat creation, and changing farming methods. On the Lowther Estate, near Penrith, in Cumbria, recent changes in grazing, tree planting, even the introduction of beavers to help with wetland creation, are already having positive repercussions on both the range and number of birds choosing to nest and breed there.The UK has an estimated three million hectares of peatland, both upland and lowland, but it's believed about 80 percent of that is in poor condition. A new report from the International Union for the Convention of Nature shows progress has been made on restoring UK peatlands over the last thirty years but its Peatland Programme also reports that it's unlikely to meet the target to restore two million hectares by 2040.Presenter = Anna Hill Producer = Rebecca Rooney

Britain's declining wild bird populations will only recover if more farmland is set aside for conservation, says the RSPB.A legal challenge to a new forest on a vast moorland in the Scottish Borders has forced its owners to stop planting. As the Met Office predicts another autumn and winter of destructive floods, a number of flood defences in England damaged during last winter's storms are yet to be fixed. Presented by Caz Graham and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

Phil Sime visits an RSPB reserve on North Uist where local crofters work alongside the charity to improve the habitat for birds including corncrake and Golden Eagle.Rachel is in Milton near Invergordon hearing about a rather impressive beech tree that has an important place in local history. She hears about efforts of the community woodland to help preserve it for future generations.The Forth Bridge is a railway bridge and a UNESCO world heritage site, and it never fails to impress Mark when he's travelling down to Edinburgh. This week, he stopped to record and wonder at this engineering marvel.Botanist Dr Sally Gouldstone spent her career passionately caring about nature. An epiphany in a supermarket aisle one day led her to develop her own skincare products made entirely from ingredients she grows in her wildflower meadow just outside Edinburgh. Rachel went to visit her and hear more about Sally and how her business has grown along with the meadow.Last year, musician and sound artist Jenny Sturgeon completed the 864km Scottish National Trail from Kirk Yetholm in the Borders to Cape Wrath in the North West Highlands. She recorded the sounds of her journey over 37 days, and you can hear them in the latest Scotland Outdoors podcast. We hear an excerpt of a rather noisy section of her route.Mark is in Newburgh in Aberdeenshire, where a new section of boardwalk has recently opened improving the accessibility to the beach for all users.And we chat live to Ben Dolphin, a ranger with the National Trust at Mar Lodge, about this year's midge numbers - there seems to have been a lot of them! And the signs of the changing seasons on Deeside, including the first dusting of snow.

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the human fascination with bird feathers went a little too far. Women's hats and dresses featured extravagant feathers from birds both near and far. The trade in feathers drove several species, from the Little Egret to the Great Crested Grebe, to near-extinction. Fed up with the killing of wild birds for fashion, a group of British women met to put an end to this cruelty. The organization became the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, or RSPB, which continues to be a leader in bird conservation today.More info and transcript at BirdNote.org. Want more BirdNote? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Sign up for BirdNote+ to get ad-free listening and other perks. BirdNote is a nonprofit. Your tax-deductible gift makes these shows possible.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Oz Austwick.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 25th September 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.monkey-forest.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-torlop-261a10119/ Josh is a passionate marketer and PR professional currently working at Trentham Monkey Forest in Staffordshire. As the sole member of the Marketing & PR team, he manages, oversees, and delivers all communication strategies for one of the UK's most fascinating woodlands. This unique role requires him to wear many hats, as he strives to create best-in-class campaigns across multiple fronts.Trentham Monkey Forest is unlike any other place in the UK. It's a 60-acre woodland where 140 Barbary macaques live freely, mirroring their natural habitat. This distinct feature is the heart of the attraction, and Josh is driven to share this "sparkle" with as many people as possible, all while working within a modest budget. A visit to the forest, which Josh first experienced with his aunt in 2007 as a child, left a lasting impression on him. Now, he aims to ensure that visitors create similarly special and lasting memories at this remarkable destination, all for an affordable entry fee—an essential element of his marketing strategy.In 2024, Monkey Forest reached a record-breaking year for footfall, and as the year draws to a close, Josh has been collaborating with Oz on creating 'out of the box' campaigns that break the 'fourth wall' between the brand and the consumer. Reflecting on a PR stunt he strategized and executed in 2022, which went globally viral and reached hundreds of millions worldwide, Josh considers it a personal career highlight. His enthusiasm for being a one-man marketing team at such a unique destination continues to fuel his innovative and ambitious approach. Transcription:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. So welcome to Season 6. Oz Austwick: Yeah, welcome back. Paul Marden: How are we back already? Because it feels like only yesterday were recording the tail end of season five. So where's my summer break? It just seems to have gone. Oz Austwick: It does seem a little bit like we've not really had much time off. We must have. Must have had a bit of a break. Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. Because I've got a list. As long as you are, of all the places that I've been over the summer holidays, where have you been? Oz Austwick: Like you? Lots of places. Lots of castles, a few stately homes and one or two more unusual places. But I think if I had to pick one, I went to Highclere. Oz Austwick: Okay. I love it. I'm a massive Downton Abbey fan. I tried so hard not to like Downton Abbey and just utterly failed and got sucked into this wonderful world of 1920s stately home. The lives going on upstairs and down. And you know what? It's just such a good series and to go and experience the place and see all these wonderful familiar areas with my 15 year old daughter, who is even more of a fan than me, was just amazing. Paul Marden: Brilliant. Oz Austwick: We might just have been blaring theme music out of the car on the way down the drive. How about you? Paul Marden: So where have I been? We went to We The Curious back in Bristol, which has just reopened after two years of being closed. And that was just amazing. I took my daughter there with two of her friends and we had a whale of time wandering around there. We've been to the Roman Baths down in Bath. That was quite fun. That was a very hot day, but we had a lovely time just wandering around in the baths. We really enjoyed that. The one standout thing that I did that does not come around very often, where it comes around once every four years. We went to the Olympics, so went and experienced handball of all games. Never watched a handball game in my life, but it was amazing. It was just so much fun. Oz Austwick: I don't think I know anything about handball. Paul Marden: Well, I was expecting something a bit like basketball or netball. No, not at all. No. This was full on contact sport. It's like rugby, but inside and throwing people around. It was awesome. It was so fast paced. We saw it was France v Germany, so it was absolutely stacked in the stadium. But they captured the spirit of London 2012. It felt just like the part, the atmosphere that we felt when went to the main stadium, the athletic stadium during 2012 but with a french twist. Oz Austwick: Not your first Olympics, then? Paul Marden: No, not my first. But I didn't see Usain Bolt this time. I did see him 2012. He was only about a spec on the other side of the stadium at the time, but no, we had a great time and there was just so much about the way that they organised it. It's a feat of human engineering, isn't it, to put that on for two weeks stint. But they organised it so well and yeah, it was thoroughly enjoyable. Oz Austwick: So, speaking of events, we're going to one pretty soon, aren't we? I mean, it's not quite on the scale of the Olympics, but it's going to be glorious all the same. Paul Marden: Yes. So this will be my third National Theme Park Awards. I promise this year not to scream quite so loudly if I actually go one of the roller coasters whilst we're there. Oz Austwick: Well, I'm going with you, so I will record it. Paul Marden: I promise you. I screamed like a marine last year. Oz Austwick: Yeah. So we'll be there. We're there officially as Rubber Cheese, aren't we? So, yes, if you're there, come over and say hi, we've got a stall, I think a stand and we might have some freebies. We'll definitely have some chocolates because it's a good excuse to have some chocolates. So come and find us and have some chocolates with us. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, it's an in real life experience, so come over and talk to us, give us your ideas. What can we do this season and what would you like us to talk about? Can we come to see ewing at your theme park? Oz Austwick: Yeah, because we're doing a bit of that this season, aren't we? We've got a few lined up. Paul Marden: We do. We do. It was something that you said last at the end of Season 5 that you wanted to do differently, that we work in this attraction sector which is all about going and doing experiences and we spend the whole of the podcast sat in a square room with nothing much going on and without actually meeting people in real life. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could actually record in real life with people? Oz Austwick: It's crazy not to. We're talking to people at these amazing places and I just get to sit in my own dodgy little converted office. But not this time. No. So you met a chap a little while ago at a conference, didn't you? Paul Marden: Yeah, I met Josh from Trentham Monkey Forest, and he was presenting. I think if I'm right in saying this, it was the first time h. e's done a presentation at conference before, but I was blown away by him and his presentation, and he's a one man marketing machine for Trentham from his own slide. He tells this story about being the CMO and the social media executive and the website editor and all of these different hats that. That you have to wear when you're running marquee in a small business. That's Josh, and I just loved it. And I was really impressed with the way he was talking about the outcomes of what he had achieved as a result of the work that he was doing. It wasn't just about the activities that he was doing. Paul Marden: It was what difference that made to the organization as a result of him doing it, which I found really impressive. So I really wanted him on the podcast, and I jumped on a call with him and. And his first idea was, why don't you come and record it in the Monkey Forest? So here we are at the start of Season 6, and you've had a chance to go up there, haven't you? Oz Austwick: Yeah. I mean, it is a little ironic that my favorite podcast. Sorry, my second favourite podcast, because obviously this is my favourite. My second favourite podcast is the Infinite Monkey Cage. So to get to go and record in what is essentially a cage with monkeys in itheme seemed like way too good an opportunity to pass up on. It was an amazing day. I try not to say too much about it because we've got the whole interview to come. Paul Marden: Absolutely. But I'm assuming that everything went slickly and it was a well oiled machine and it's got the same production values as we would normally expect. Oz Austwick: No, not at all. I mean, I realised that there was potentially an issue when we. I got there and I found the place really easily. It was great. It was nicely signposted. I found the right place. The people in the car parks were hugely helpful. They sent me there. I parked up, a lovely lady took me to Josh. We got all the gear. We walked quite a long way into a forest full of monkeys, and then I realised I didn't have a camera with me. And of course, it's not an easy thing to go because we couldn't just leave all the gear with the monkeys and both walk back. But because I wasn't wearing official Trentham Monkey Forest clothing, they didn't want people to see me walking around in the woods off the path. So it became quite. Oz Austwick: So we figured it out, got the camera, got back, started setting everything up, and of course, because we're not sitting at desks I've got a lovely microphone that I wanted to put out in front of us, but you can't string a cable across a large open area where there are monkeys. Paul Marden: Health and safety issues with monkeys. Oz Austwick: Yeah, well, absolutely. The fact is, I mean, we could have done it, but the monkeys would have probably just taken the microphone away. So there is, if I'm being honest, a little bit of wind noise because the microphone's slightly further from us than I hoped it would be. I've got Josh miked up, so it's only me that you struggle to hear. But that being said, I mean, what an amazing experience if you haven't been to Trentham Monkey Forest, go. We've talked about this a little before, but there's this kind of period, 100, 120 years ago when all of the great historic homes, these are amazing estates, suddenly started having to find other ways of making money. And you can look around and some of them have survived and some of them haven't. Some of them have just gone completely. Oz Austwick: Some were turned into flats and one was turned into a monkey forest, which just feels a little bit random. But, yeah, I mean, Josh is a really smart guy, very switched on, very articulate and very knowledgeable, and he's got his own monkey army. So. Paul Marden: I've got nothing to say to that other than we desperately got to listen to the rest of this interview. It's going to be so interesting. Oz Austwick: Yeah, well, absolutely. But before we do, if you're listening and you have a thing going on and you'd like us to come and be part of it and record there, please do get in touch and let us know if you're doing something interesting in the visitor attraction sector. We'd love to talk to you. Or if there's just a pressing issue that you think isn't getting the exposure that it should be, then, yeah, let us know, because this isn't really about us, it's about the sector. And if we can help, then that would be amazing. Paul Marden: Yeah. So we've got lined up for this season. We're going to do some in real life at conferences. So we're going to go to ASDC conference and do some in real life interviews there. We've been invited to some attractions already. So, you know, if you've got a conference and you'd love us to come along and do something in real life for the podcast, let us know if you'd like us to come to your attraction because you're running an event for Halloween or Christmas or whatever it is then let us know. We will chuckle the gear in the back of a car. We promise we will better prepared if we meet monkeys again. Can't promise that we'll better prepared for other animals or small children or whatever, but, you know, we'll do our best. Oz Austwick: Yeah, I mean, I'd be hesitant and promising I'd be more prepared, to be honest with you, but, you know, we'll do our best and we'll come up. Oz Austwick: With something on at the end of it, I'm sure. Paul Marden: Yeah, exactly. So, without any further ado, shall we get on to listening to the interview that you did with. With Josh athlete at Trenton Monkey forest? Oz Austwick: So welcome, Josh. Thanks very much for joining us. Regular listeners will probably be aware of a bit of wind noise on this one because for the first time, we're recording on location in a monkey forest. Josh Torlop: Yeah, it's the first time for me to be honest, because I'm just looking across our forest here and we've got three or four monkeys surrounding us. Oz Austwick: Yeah, I must admit it's a little bit odd, if I'm being honest. I'm used to sitting in an office, at a desk, and today I'm leaning on a tree surrounded by monkeys. Josh Torlop: It's giving me a little bit of power here. I'm not the host and I'm making you feel uncomfortable with these monkeys around us, but no, yeah, we're perfectly fine. The monkeys have their natural weariness intact of humans, so they won't bother us too much. They will simply live their monkey life around us. Oz Austwick: If you're listening to this on Spotify or through iTunes or anything like that, then please check out the YouTube video and you'll be able to see some of the monkeys that are currently watching us. So, as always, we tend to start with a couple of icebreaker questions. And now we're in Season 6, that's not going to change anytime soon. So I've got a couple of kind off the wall questions for you. Josh Torlop: Oh, here we go. Oz Austwick: What's the biggest animal that you think you could carry up a flight of stairs? Josh Torlop: Oh, that's a good question. So, when I was younger, I had a Labrador called Tommy who had a bit of a gut. Oz Austwick: Okay. Josh Torlop: So I'd say I'd carry Tommy, and that might be a very boring answer, but he could eat anything. We had two labradors, one called Blake and one called Tommy. And Tommy used to finish his food and eat Blake's food, so I would say Tommy. Oz Austwick: Okay, cool. Yeah, I reckon. I think you could carry a labrador. The next one is what film should be remade by the Muppets. Josh Torlop: Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Oz Austwick: Yeah. Josh Torlop: The Wolf of Wall Street. I'd love to see Kim the frog take on Wall street. How good would that be? Oz Austwick: That would be amazing. Josh Torlop: Yeah, that would be perfect. Because Margot Robbie's blonde. Miss Piggy was blonde. Not to say that Margot Robbie looks at all like Miss Piggy, but that's. Yeah, that'd work. Oz Austwick: I doubt she's a listener, if I can. So one of the things I really want to talk to you about, other than that this venue, which is quite unique, at least in the UK, is the challenges of being a one man marketing team. Oz Austwick: Let's start off. Just tell me a little bit about the monkey forest and how it became a thing. Josh Torlop: Yeah, certainly. So, Trentham Monkey Forest is one of four parks protecting Barbary macaques. That is a highly endangered species of primate. So there's less than 8000 in the wild. So we have two parks in France, one in Germany and one here in Staffordshire. Stokend Trentham Monkey Forest. And it started all the way back in 1969 in Kinzheim in the Alsace region. Listeners might remember Beauty and the Beast. That's where the town was famously sort of depicted. Oh, yeah, there we go. Yeah. Back to the Muppets. Well, yeah. But in terms of our journey, if you will, it was two french chaps, one called Jack Trinau and one called Gilbert de turquine, that basically sought this mission to protect this incredible species, monkey called Barbary macaques. Josh Torlop: So they wanted to create this fantastic concept where around 100 monkeys, 100 to 150, could simply be themselves in a forest completely, no interference from humans, in a way where it would be able to preserve the natural behaviours in order to facilitate possible reintroduction. Oz Austwick: Okay. Josh Torlop: So it was an incredible forward thinking concept. And you fast forward 40 years, they had to basically have to open two parks, another one in France in Rocamadour, and then another one in Germany in the sort of Lake Constance area, basically, because they sort of made the mistakes before us, basically. So they realised that once you have a lot of monkeys in a forest living how they would. They'd mate and they'd make. You'd end up with more monkeys. So they had to open more parks came this incredible conservation project for this one species, which makes us incredibly different, because their passion was engaging people with this primate in particular, by letting visitors to the area marvel at the incredible behaviours right in front of them from 2 meters away. Josh Torlop: But also, the monkeys having this, you know, this separation between human and primate, so their natural behaviours weren't deteriorated. So it was an incredible concept that here we are, 2005, we'll say we opened in Trentham, Stoke, and here we are, 2024, 19 years later, thriving, surviving, and I'm doing the marketing for it, which is incredible. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. So how do you end up as the marketing and pr manager of a monkey forest? Josh Torlop: So what you do is the year was, what, 2021? And I was looking for a role in marketing and I was scrolling through LinkedIn and Indeed, as you do when you're searching for a job. And I saw an advertisement for a marketing and PR officer at Trentham Monkey Forest. And it brought me back to when I was seven years old, my auntie and my mum coming to visit Monkey Forest for the first time and being absolutely amazed at the fact that there was a primate right in front of me, acting as if I wasn't there and it was just being a monkey, I thought it was magnificent. And that visit always stuck with me. And for me, as a visitor attraction, I always talk about, now I'm marketing at a visitor attraction. Is the sparkle what excites your visitors to come to you? Josh Torlop: And that is it. That moment of thinking, wow, that's incredible, there's a monkey right there acting exactly how it would in the wild. That's always stuck with me. And that inspired me to apply for that role because I wanted to share that sort of memory maker with thousands of people to visit the park and have that same experience. And thankfully, we're doing that quite well. We're hitting all the right noises on TikTok. Oz Austwick: Absolutely, yeah, you're doing a great job. Does it ever get normal? Because I have to say, it's really weird to be stood here in a perfectly normal british bit of woodland. And, yeah, there are monkeys. Josh Torlop: Well, if you look to your left, you'll see a statue of a man in the distance. So that man is the Duke of Sutherland. He once owned this land, a bit like lion king, you know, everywhere the light touches, I own. Basically, in the victorian times, he owned the Trentham estate. So everywhere we're looking now, that was Duke Sutherland's land. And people of that time actually enjoyed this forest for leisure. So not much has really changed because people still enjoy it. It's just there's monkeys here, which I love to imagine if we just brought him back for just a day and I would be like, what do you think of this use for your land, mister Duke, Sir Duke? Oz Austwick: I think it's fascinating. And one of the things that we see a lot, because we talk to and work with a lot of old historic estates and the kind of, I guess maybe 100 years ago or so, there was a real issue where they had to suddenly start doing something to survive. They couldn't just have the land and keep it, they had to actually make some use of it or lose it. And it's really interesting how some places in their safari parks or golf courses or hotels and spas, and there we have a load of monkeys. Josh Torlop: Yeah, I mean, 60 acres, about the equivalent of 40 football pitches. For any football fans listening, that's a lot of space. And the visitors see a very small proportion of that, which is nice in a way. I'd love for visitors to see all our forest, but for the monkeys, they have such a huge, vast amount of forest space to live exactly how they would in the wild, to a point. That's incredible. So we invited last year, for example, a David Attenborough producer called Rosie Thomas to do a members evening. We obviously have members, and she had literally just been filming in the Algeria, Morocco, a region where these monkeys are native to. Josh Torlop: And she was absolutely bowled over by the fact that it was bringing her back to filming with David Attenborough, which was crazy to think, but so rewarding, in a sense, for us, as an organisation, to think we're doing the right things. And, yeah, that was probably a moment where I thought, wow. Well, I always think, wow. But that, for me, sums up Monkey Forest. To see that a David Attenborough producer could be amazed, and the environment. Oz Austwick: So, yeah, so how do you market it? Josh Torlop: How do I market it? Oz Austwick: It's not like there's a playbook that already. Josh Torlop: That's probably the beauty of it. But is there a playbook for marketing? I mean, TikTok, I feel like if you ever see the Royal Society Protection of Birds, RSPB, they're amazing. They are so hilarious with TikTok. But for us, I think we stick to our unique. Oh, gosh, USP Unique Selling Point of, you walk amongst the monkeys. We have a little bit of fun with it, but also, we know our audience quite well, in a sense, that we know which channels suit certain content types. Pr. We do a lot of story pushing, storytelling features, like a huge part of our marketing activity. We tend to go viral quite often with user generated content. Josh Torlop: So we try and, you know, push that to make sure that visitors want to take a TikTok here, get excited about that, because it could go viral, it could blow up. Anyone can make content nowadays, so we tap into that. But, yeah, I think the key in everything is knowing your audience, knowing what we are and what we do best, which is the walking amongst the monkeys and the conservation behind it. And also being organic. I think I'm being authentic. I think some brands tend to forget that their audiences are human and they don't want to be sold to. They want to see organic content, digest it, consume it, otherwise they're going to swipe up or they're going to swipe across. Josh Torlop: So for us, it's all about having that tongue in cheek element, hitting all noises, having those serious conservation messaging, whether it's a blog or whatever, but marrying that up with some funny content. I mean, do you remember the Aurora, the Northern Lights? One silly thing I did on social media was I superimposed a monkey, transparent monkey in the sky here, and we said, "Oh, the Aurora looked a bit different and still contract", and that got a bit of traction. But, yeah, things like that, you know, showing a bit of personality. I mean, Ryanair do it, a lot of brands are starting to do it now. Curries. I find them hilarious when they chuck a chicken into a air fryer, like from a viral meme video. I don't know if you've seen, Oz, but that's hilarious. Yeah, that's brilliant. Oz Austwick: I mean, there are some companies that are really smashing social media. I'm a huge fan of Gregg's social media. And there's one of the big London department stores that does a world famous Christmas display in their windows every year. And there's a Gregg's opposite the road, opposite them, on the other side of the road. And they literally, they reversed their sign so that every time somebody took a picture of the Christmas display, it said Gregg's. Josh Torlop: Oh, brilliant. Oz Austwick: What a fantastic thing. Josh Torlop: You're making me hungry for a cheese and onion pasta. I love it. Gregg's. There is a drive through one in Stoke by Trent Bale. Oz Austwick: I might check that out. Josh Torlop: For me, I think TikTok in particular, I think every marketer's worked out that each post you do on TikTok you're following is the lowest percentage of who will see that. So it's always a new audience for every post that you do on TikTok. So for us coming in three years ago, we didn't have a TikTok, which I found incredible. We should have TikTok was my answer in my job interview, and that's probably what landed me the job because, you know, three years on we've got 12.7 thousand followers, which is quite a good growth. Josh Torlop: I'm always my biggest critic, so I'd want more, but I think every marketer or PR would say that. But in terms of the TikTok content that we put out is just making sure that we're doing it on a consistent basis, because we know that organic nature of the organic post, reaching a new audience each time, that's probably not going to be there forever. So it's sort of using that now to our advantage because, say, if we do ten posts a week and yeah, all those ten posts didn't get a million views, but if each one of those got a thousand views, that's 10,000 people that wouldn't have seen our content. And also that our unique element will be embedded in that content, or it'll be me in a monkey costume dancing to It's Raining Men. That wasn't me, by the way. Josh Torlop: I've just, I'm just like, that slipper wasn't me. Lots of fun. Oz Austwick: I'll see if I can get a link for that and pop it in the show notes. I mean, I think it's really interesting that social media kind of gives us this really odd view when it comes to numbers. And you say you've got what, say, twelve and a half thousand followers. Josh Torlop: Yeah, I think it's 12.7 now. 12.7 thousand. Oz Austwick: And those people who are really into social media will look at that and think, oh, that's not very many. Josh Torlop: No. Oz Austwick: But put them all in a room. Josh Torlop: Well, that's quite an awful lot for a small organisation. But also zero pounds spent. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. Oz Austwick: If you got twelve and a half thousand people through the gates, that wouldn't come through the gates otherwise, then that's a massive step. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Well, absolutely. I think for us, we have a quite high awareness campaign yearly campaign. We just want to drive awareness to us. Because I live and die by you put this in front of eyes. Feet are going to certainly follow because of how incredible it is. So that's what molds our strategy. But that's obviously one small element is social media. I mean, we did a PR stunt in 2022 that went globally viral. It reached 900 million people. So we're talking about 12.7 thousand not being the biggest, but that's huge. Yeah. James Corden was talking about little old Trent and monkey forest a few years ago. Because you'll love this, we hired a Marvin Gaye impersonator to serenade our monkeys, saying, "Let's get it on." Oz Austwick: I saw. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Oz Austwick: And that was a Valentine's Day thing. Josh Torlop: It was a Valentine's Day PR stunt, yeah. And it went absolutely viral. I dine out on it every week now at dinner, because I don't think I'm ever going to live that down. Oz Austwick: So, I mean, did it work? Do you have baby monkeys now? Josh Torlop: We had twelve that year, I believe. I think twelve. So. Oz Austwick: So, from a conservation point of view, getting Marvin Gaye involved was a good move. Josh Torlop: Well, that's it, yeah. We aim between six and seven babies, so if we have twelve that year, then it's work. Oz Austwick: I'm impressed. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Oz Austwick: So what are some of the challenges? Because obviously it's just you that does all of this and I've worked in house as a marketer and you've got to do everything, which inevitably means that you've just got to decide which bits you're going to do and which bits you're not. Oz Austwick: How's that work in the visitor attraction industry? Josh Torlop: For me, I hate the saying jack of all trades. I prefer swiss army knife because each part of a swift army knife is very useful and that's each part of the communication strategy f For me, every bit of it is vital for the success of your marketing and pr strategy. And one of the challenges is, obviously, managing time. Not to be boring, but it is. For example, this morning I've had a BBC radio stoke interview come straight speak to you. But, yeah, it's a case of making sure that you don't bite off more than you can chew, not having a skatcon approach, having quite a strategic straight line, knowing what you wanted to achieve. or me. Every bit of it is vital for the success of your marketing and pr strategy. So, yeah, that feeds into our strategy, really. Josh Torlop: It's not biting off more than we can chew, but also being as impactful as we can with the resource given. So I take all the photography that many people probably don't know, and Monkey Forest, we don't outsource photography, I take it. So I feel like, yes, it can be taxing having just one person to do all these roles, but then ensures consistency, because if it's wrong, it's the wrong consistency. But I like to think I'm doing quite well here. So in terms of what we're doing and what we're putting out, it's all consistent, we're brand cohesive because we haven't got a lot of chefs in the room giving off opinions, which can be good, can be useful, but still, I think that's why we get stuff done quite quickly. Josh Torlop: Say, if I want bit of content, I take my camera in and get the content, whatever it needs to be. But I do say, "Oh, yeah, it's a marketing team of one", but I have a great support network around me. For example, the director, Mark, best boss you'll ever work for. He is such a good guy and he trusts me to execute the pr and marketing strategy well. And then we've got Lisa, the part manager, who helps me a lot as well with radio interviews. They're all superb in front of the camera. Not a lot of people would say that, but media training wise, everyone is fantastic here in front of media, which is great. So everyone was willing to muck in. Josh Torlop: The Marvin Gaye PR event, for example, that was a roaring success because the guides were on board, they knew what, even though it sounded ridiculous. And all of our guides have science based, of course, being Barbary macaque experts. And they thought, what the earth is Josh playing at here? They saw the impact of raising the profile of the endangered species and they were really with me on that. But that was because we did a team brief. We explained the strategy behind it, what we wanted to achieve. The reason I actually said, the reason why I like to do this high awareness campaign is because I go into the pub with my mates to celebrate getting this job and I'm from a little town called Norfolk in Cheshire, which is probably on the sort of cross county border of Staffordshire. Josh Torlop: And I said, "Oh, I've got a job at transome monkey forest." And they went, "Oh, part of my transom gardens." " No", that's not the case. So we didn't have that profile in place. That was only the people that knew about us, by the way. So half the table didn't even know what Transponkey forest was, which I found baffling 20 minutes up the road. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. So, yeah, so, I mean, you get quite a lot of user generated content, your social media, obviously full of monkeys, but most people's isn't. So when they come, it's quite special being to put that out. But you mentioned earlier when were chatting about the fact that your most recent success has been TripAdvisor. Josh Torlop: Yeah, it's quite the timing, to be fair. So we've gone viral again this week because someone did a review on Tripadvisor and this sums up our marketing strategy to a team because obviously we try and be as lighthearted as possible and resonate with our audiences. So someone did a review about Monkey Forest and they were upset that we had monkeys. So, yeah, primarily it was monkeys. So we responded. I respond to every review because I find the feedback so useful, because we have the luxury that a lot of businesses who are listening or people are from organisations going to be jealous of this. We're closed over winter, so November to February. We have a strategic analysis of the business for me as well, marketing activity. I do all my strategy over winter, implement it spring and summer. Josh Torlop: So anyway, we love our feedback, we love receiving the feedback. And this week, it's the first time in nearly four years where I've been stumped for words. I didn't know what to say to this person because we have got monkeys. So our response went viral. We said something along the lines of, "Yes, we're a monkey forest. So primarily there are monkeys. Sorry, don't know how to answer this." Oz Austwick: It just leaves me wondering how they found you. Josh Torlop: Yeah, because if you. Oz Austwick: Our SEO must be formed pictures of monkey and the website site is covered in pictures of monkeys and it's called monkey forest. Josh Torlop: Can't please everyone. Right. I'm not sure, to be fair, I'd love for him to reach out because, yeah, it has gone viral. I feel bad for the chap who's done the review because he must be a bit upset with all the attention he's got from a review because he's a paying visitor at the end of the day and he probably had a great time, but. Oz Austwick: You'd hope so, but not if you don't like monkeys, I guess. Josh Torlop: Yeah. So. But, yeah, it was in the mail, the Daily Mail, the Daily Mirror, all the national news pretty much this week. So it kept me on my toes and busy. And that's when it's hard as a team of one, is to manage things that go viral. Oz Austwick: I guess at that point you're getting a lot of people trying to contact you and get comments from you for their articles. So what they're putting out is a little bit different. Josh Torlop: Well, no, to be fair, everything's been consistent so far, but it is a lot of marketing, and PR is controlling narratives and making sure that the content or whatever's being put out is in line with what you're trying to achieve. And obviously PR has that challenge and I like to think that PR is sort of my bag. So I love to do PR. It's something that I've always been interested in. I did a journalism degree at university, so I love the PR element of the job and storytelling. So from that, I'm sure fellow PRs that are listening will understand. When something goes viral, it's a little dreaded demon in the back of your mind where you're like, "Oh, God, it's gone viral." Oz Austwick: It's probably good. Josh Torlop: Probably good. But I've got a lot of answers to come up with. But, yeah, it's great for the business and we're a lovely bunch here. So if anyone does something great, people do tell you, and it's really nice, and it's such a wonderful place to work. Even the head guides, they have a bit of bands with me. I like to call them Anton Deck, the two head guides. So it's Aliya, the Venice, and it's daydream. 20 years. Well, 19 years, but yeah. So Aliyah gave me a lot of banter. Scene. What has he done now? He's made it busy for bank holiday. We're gonna be knackered. But, yeah, it's all good fun. It's all good banter. Oz Austwick: So what's next? Where do we go at Trentham Monkey Forest? What's the future look like? Josh Torlop: I want to do another Valentine's Day PR stunts. I want to do Netflix and chill, so I want to set up play screen for the monkeys. May play a bit of Titanic or love, actually. But, yeah, I just want to carry on going, getting as much awareness of the park as possible, hitting the right noises, bringing a load of visitors in who have a great time and do more things like this, because this is brilliant and I've really appreciated you coming in, having a chat. Oz Austwick: It's a joy. It feels a little bit like it's not work. I'm feeling very lucky today, so thank you very much for having me. Josh Torlop: Thank you. I think I've bored the monkeys because they've all gone. They've all legged it. Oz Austwick: I am wondering where they've gone. Before we wrap it up, we try and finish every episode with a book recommendation. Josh Torlop: Brilliant. I think I need to be on brand here, even though there are monkeys here and they're not apes, but I'm gonna recommend the Chimp Paradox. Can't remember who it's by, but it's a great book. It's all about controlling your inner chimp as a human and controlling your emotions and making sure you don't react emotionally too much to things. Because I like to think I wear my heart on my sleeve and it's good to make sure that you're keeping control of your emotions and making sure that you know, if anything happens, you're doing a great job, everything's going well in life. Chill out. And not being too hard on yourself. Oz Austwick: Amazing. Well, if you'd like a copy, head over to X and retweet us and say that you would like Josh's book. Josh Torlop: I didn't write it. Josh's book. Josh's book. Oz Austwick: We call it Josh's book. Yeah. Thanks so much. I really appreciate having you on board.  And for letting me come and hang out with your monkeys. Josh Torlop: There you go. Thanks very much. Appreciate you coming down. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Help the entire sector:Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsFill in your data now (opens in new tab)

Businesses that import meat could have to pay up to six times more than they were expecting to get each lorry through border checks; that's according to the British Meat Processors Association. Since April businesses that import through Dover and the Eurotunnel through Folkestone have been paying what's called a Common User Charge.Bracken is a large and very prolific fern, and it can be a big problem for farmers, particularly in the uplands. It eats into grazing land, it harbours ticks and it's difficult to control, especially since last autumn when Asulox, the only herbicide used to kill it, became permanently withdrawn from the UK and Europe. The Innovative Farmers Network has just started trialling non-chemical approaches to bracken control, one of which involves using cattle to trample it. Curlew are an iconic and beautiful bird of moorland and wetland areas, but curlew numbers have diminished significantly over the last few decades, placing them firmly on the RSPB's red list. A project in Wales, funded by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust, is using drones to locate nests which can then be protected. All week on Farming Today we've been visiting rural communities all around the UK's coastline and finding out how they're meeting the challenges they face. Sarah Swadling has been to the Devon village of Beer to find out how they're keeping the community and tourism vibrant.60 years ago, the first ever BBC Radio 4's On Your Farm programme aired, as an early morning outside broadcast from a family farm in Rutland. To mark the programme's diamond anniversary, Vernon Harwood has visited that same farm to discover what's changed over the past six decades.Presented by Caz Graham and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

The Bugs Matter 2024 survey, led by Buglife and Kent Wildlife Trust, is calling on citizen scientists across the UK to participate in this crucial insect population study. Since the first reference survey in 2004 led by RSPB, analysis of records from nearly 26,500 journeys across the UK shows a continuing decrease in bug splats, with the number of splats sampled on vehicle number plates by citizen scientists decreasing by 78% nationwide between 2004 and 2023. Bugs Matter 2024 survey "We're at a critical juncture in the 2024 survey season," says Paul Hetherington, Buglife Director of Fundraising and Communications. "The summer holidays present an ideal opportunity for families to contribute to this important citizen science initiative while on their travels. Many people are noticing fewer insects this year so please collect more data over your summer break to help us understand the situation better." The 2024 survey began on 1 May, and since then 5,292 journeys have been logged, covering an impressive distance of 146,291 miles, showcasing the collective effort of citizen scientists across the UK to collect valuable scientific data. Each journey recorded represents a vital contribution to our understanding of insect abundance and the data will help to inform better conservation policy and practice to save our bugs. Dr Lawrence Ball, Kent Wildlife Ecological Data Analyst Lead shares: "Notably, participants in the South East have emerged as the front runners, having logged an impressive 1,279 journeys over the survey period so far. The East of England and Scotland are not far behind with 1,068 and 472 journeys, respectively, but there is still time for these regions and others to overtake before the end of September!" A noticeable lack of insects across the UK this summer has been the subject of much discussion across many social media platforms and discussion groups; with individuals and conservation groups expressing their fears about our future if we don't take action for insects now. A number of wildlife rescue and rehabilitation charities have recently come forward with anecdotal observations linking to possible declines in insects too. Bat conservation groups across Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Worcestershire, Essex and South Lancashire have said that they are seeing an increase in the number of "starving" or "underweight" bats, often juveniles, who need to be rescued and cared for by volunteers. In some places, they are seeing fewer bats than they usually do in the summer. Similarly, Oxfordshire Wildlife Rescue recently shared that "This year has been a true 'eye-opener' into the 'issues' regarding the lack of insect life and the weather patterns. The direct impact on insectivores/garden birds across various species has been all too clear: failed nestlings, abandoned nests/broods, and emaciation cases. As well as garden birds, we have taken on the care of 16 juvenile swifts, and many of these admissions have been emaciation cases." Conservationists are expressing that several factors may be contributing to the lack of insects, including habitat loss, pesticide use, light pollution, invasive non-native species and changing climate, and the knock-on effects on other species. Many experts are also advising that the unusual weather conditions of the last two years are an exacerbating factor. With a prolonged wet spring, and colder than usual summer conditions, many insect breeding cycles will have been impacted. Dr Lawrence Ball emphasises the need for more research: "While these theories are plausible and anecdotal observations are valuable, we need robust data to understand the full picture. That's why every contribution to the Bugs Matter survey is vital." The 2024 survey ends on 30 September 2024. Families, friends and individuals are encouraged to take part in the survey as part of their summer holiday activities. Further details on supporting Bugs Matter can be found at buglife.org.uk/get-involved/ surveys/bugs-matter/ Bug...

From interpreting pigs coughs to detect disease to analysing biodiversity data; all this week we're going to be talking about artificial intelligence and its use in agriculture. Today, how AI is being used to sift out inaccurate agricultural market research.A year ago the RSPB started turning land that was once arable fields, next to its site at Lakenheath Fen in Suffolk, into a wetland habitat. The hope being that they'd see many species of rare wildlife return, and it's working. It's giving the marsh harrier and wildlife more space to thrive.Indoor vertical farms claim to provide the solution to unpredictable weather, growing salads in controlled conditions under lights and stacked in layers. But it's an expensive way to grow, and involves high energy consumption. We visit the Jones Food Company vertical farm in Gloucestershire.Presented by Helen Mark and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

In this episode, Tricia and I visit the RSPB reserve at Pulborough in West Sussex. Visit their website here. Also, what were pubs like back in the 1960s? Were they just boozers? Or, were they an integral part of the community? Plus, remembering the old record shops, hiding money beneath the mattress... Please, join me this Sunday.

Rachel meets Peter Livingstone who has spent a decade campaigning to save the Aspen tree. Thanks to his hard work, numbers of Aspen in Renfrewshire have grown from single digits to thousands. He shows Rachel his nursery near Bishopton.Andrew O'Donnell is a natural history film maker and musician who records under the moniker of Beluga Lagoon. In this week's Scotland Outdoors podcast, Maud Start meets up with Andrew on a river bank. We hear an excerpt where they watch dippers and talk about the nature themes in his music.Last week on Out of Doors we heard about how busy the island of Skye is all year round with tourists. While Mark was visiting, he took time to seek out a quieter style of tour with Mark Purrett from Skye Geography Tours. He took Mark to a less popular location and told him about the geography of the island.It's osprey watching season and as always, there have been highs and lows at the various nesting sites around the country. Rachel visits the RSPB's Loch Garten where they have had no shortage of drama this year. Ranger Jess Tomes tells her more.You might remember a few months, ago Mark went for a walk with Dr Kat Jones, Director of Action to Protect Rural Scotland, who had undertaken a challenge to walk Glasgow's Greenbelt. Well she's just completed her walks, so Mark went back to catch up with her to find out how it had gone.Later this year the BBC Food and Farming Awards will be held in Scotland. And here on Out of Doors alongside our TV colleagues at Landward, we are launching The BBC Scotland Local Food Hero award. Joining us to tell us more is presenter of Radio 4's Food Programme, Sheila Dillon.Rachel is back at the Scottish Wildlife Trust's Rahoy Nature Reserve where ranger Steve Hardy lets her listen to some of the recordings he's made of the amazing wildlife that makes its home in Rahoy.We catch up with the incredible Ethan Walker, who just nine months after suffering horrific injuries when he was hit by a car, is cycling to Munich for Euro 2024. We chat to Ethan live to see how far he's managed to travel in a week.And as the country marks the 80th Anniversary of the D-Day landings, Mark is in Garlieston in Dumfries and Galloway where crucial parts of the invasion infrastructure were tested.

Farmer confidence is at an all time low: that's according to a new survey published this week by the National Farmers' Union. It says the wet weather has had an impact, but farmers also point to worries about the future of their businesses. The Government's announcement that the seasonal worker visa scheme is being extended for five years has been welcomed by farming organisations. It comes as part of Defra's response to an independent review into labour shortages in the Food Supply Chain which was published last summer. The Government had said it would respond to it last year. The RSPB says it is "vital" that a UK ban on fishing for sandeels in the North Sea remains in place. The ban, which stops sandeel trawlers fishing in English and Scottish sections of the North Sea, came into effect in April following a long campaign by conservationists concerned about declining seabird populations, particularly puffins and kittiwakes. Fishermen in Denmark are supporting a challenge by the European Union to the UK ban, claiming they have lost half of their fishing grounds because of the new restrictions. Cornish journalist and farmer, Stuart Oates, has been taking a European road trip in his fairly ancient land rover, peering over as many hedges as possible. From mangoes in spain to rice in Portugal, he started at the heart of the global wine industry in France. In the UK wine production has become a thriving business, but in Bordeaux things aren't looking so good.Presented by Charlotte Smith and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

The RSPB says it is "vital" that a UK ban on fishing for sandeels in the North Sea remains in place. The ban, which stops sandeel trawlers fishing in English and Scottish sections of the North Sea, came into effect in April following a long campaign by conservationists concerned about declining seabird populations, particularly puffins and kittiwakes. Fishermen in Denmark are supporting a challenge by the European Union to the UK ban, claiming they have lost half of their fishing grounds because of the new restrictions.Farmer confidence is at an all time low; that's according to a new survey published by the National Farmers' Union. It says the wet weather has had an impact, but farmers also point to worries about the future of their businesses. 65% of the 797 farmers surveyed at the end of last year say profits have fallen or that their businesses may not survive. 86% expect the phasing out of direct subsidy payments to have a negative impact on their farms, and 80% expect regulations and the price of inputs to hit their businesses.We visit the heart of the global wine industry in France. While in the UK wine production has become a thriving business, in Bordeaux things aren't looking so good.Presented by Charlotte Smith and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

Linda is in Pitlochry where a group of volunteers meet once a fortnight to help maintain the area's much loved and well used path network. She hears why the group were founded and about the different kinds of work they carry out.Mark is in Dunbar Harbour, marvelling at the kittiwakes and exploring a site that was once home to a fish hatchery.And not far along the coast in North Berwick, Rachel meets artist and campaigner Julie Barnes, who created what is believed to be the largest mural in the UK made entirely from marine plastic.Is spring finally here? After a very damp and dismal start to the season, Pennie Latin looks hopefully towards to the first glimpses of new life in Spring and thinks about they make us feel.The results of the RSPB's Big Garden Birdwatch 2024 are out! The house sparrow has topped the list once again but what do the rest of the results tell us? We find out live.Linda goes on a tour of Glasgow City Centre with Niall Murphy, director of the Glasgow City Heritage Trust. He shows her some of hidden architectural gems and tells her about how the city centre developed over the years.Plants with Purpose is a five year year initiative set up by Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh to research how we could use plants to combat extreme urban weather events. Mark finds out more as he visits the rain garden area of the RBGE in Edinburgh.The fashion industry is notoriously unsustainable, and designers are working on how to improve that. Maud meets one such person, Emily Raemakers who has been experimenting with natural materials including mushrooms, algae and apple leather.And Mugdock Country Park is a popular location just north of Glasgow with woods, trails and a 13th century castle. It not only attracts families and dog walkers but TV productions and Hollywood movies. Linda meets Pam Grieve, the park's Development Officer to hear about what's involved in hosting a blockbuster film crew.

At the launch of his latest video installation at the Tate St Ives, artist Andy Holden meets with David Oakes to discuss the creativity present within the bird world. But, whilst exploring avian aesthetics, Andy's artwork - "A Natural History of Nest Building" - also explores the roles of nature versus nurture at an additional level. This exhibition, one exploring how and why Birds learn to create nest structures, is created by a father and son team; the son an artist, and the father a famous ornithologist. Which begs question: was this film, one about creating homes, nurturing eggs, and fledging one's young, really just about birds? In this ornithological deep dive, Andy and Peter Holden discuss approaching a shared passion from opposite directions. You'll hear about the super-stimulus associated with the gaping beak of the infanticide-committing cuckoo, the individual spin that different birds of the same species place upon their own personal nests, and the complicated legacy of the mysterious egg-stealing Jordain Society. Andy Holden is a multi-faceted artist who has exhibited at the Tate Britain, has had music aired on BBC 6 Music, and has created everything from human-sized bower-bird bowers, to enormous knitted rocks based upon a piece of pyramid which he stole as a boy. His father, Peter Holden MBE, worked for the RSPB for almost 40 years to boost their youth engagement. He was most notably instrumental in developing their “Big Garden Birdwatch” - the UK's first 'citizen science' project, which has been running now for 45 years, and counted around 190 million birds. Why not become a "Subscription Squirrel" on our Patreon, and help support the production of this podcast? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark visits Aviemore Bikes to hear about a scheme encouraging locals to take up the use of an e-bike free of charge. He hears who has been using them and why.This week's Scotland's Outdoors podcast features cellist Jessica Kerr telling Helen Needham about her project ‘Stories of People and Trees'. She's been gathering stories relating to trees and has commissioned some new music inspired by them. We hear an excerpt where they admire the trees in Maxwell Park in Glasgow.Back in lockdown in 2020, a seawater pool in the East Neuk of Fife started to experience a bit of a revival. Rachel went for a visit to hear about the group that formed to look after the Cellardyke Pool and the important part it plays in the community. Plus she witnesses some of those brave enough to take a dip in January!The RSPB's Loch Leven reserve is home to lots of different bird life at different times of the year. Mark went along to see what he could spot as we head into spring.And with Spring on our minds, we chat about Imbolc. A Celtic tradition, Imbolc marks the halfway point between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. We hear about the traditions and rituals associated with it.Galloway is another area that is campaigning to become Scotland's Next National Park. Rachel speaks to some of those involved in the bid about what makes it so special and why it should be awarded National Park status.After hearing our item on willow coffins recently, the custodian of a natural burial ground in Speyside got in touch to ask if we'd like to visit. So Mark went along to find out what makes a natural burial ground different from a traditional cemetery.A special appeal is being made to trace the descendants of the crew involved in the Stonehaven lifeboat disaster of 1874. Rachel hears the tragic story of the disaster and why the RNLI are trying to find descendants.