Podcasts about drinks

What happens when a small experimental wine project turns into one of the most recognizable brands in the grocery store?In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with John Anthony Truchard, Founder and CEO of John Anthony Wine & Spirits, the company behind Butter Wines.What began as a 1,000-case experiment in 2009 has grown into a brand approaching 800,000 cases annually, with Butter itself scaling to more than $85 million in revenue. At one point, the brand controlled roughly 18% of the $15–$20 Chardonnay segment in the U.S. — an extraordinary share in a crowded category.Even more unusual: The brand achieved that scale without outside investment. Instead of venture capital, Truchard relied on bank financing, disciplined inventory management, and one “north star” signal — strong consumer pull.As he explains in this episode, aggressively scaling Butter wasn't the riskiest decision he made. It was the least risky because the wine kept selling out in the markets where it launched.We unpack how Butter found its market seam by delivering a rich, barrel-style Chardonnay at a price point between mass brands like Kendall-Jackson and premium players like Rombauer. Truchard also explains how the company engineered a premium flavor profile at scale, and how he started with small, scrappy distributors before transitioning to national distribution with Southern Glazer's and RNDC.Along the way, he shares candid lessons about growth — including the risks of locking in long-term grape contracts during boom years and how those decisions create difficult adjustments when the market softens.Finally, we discuss the company's structured approach to innovation. Instead of chasing trends, the team follows a disciplined process — evaluation, innovation, execution, iteration — and then decides whether to accelerate a product or retire it.That framework has already produced Butter Light, now one of the fastest-growing light Chardonnays, and Butter Zero, which launched with 18,000 points of distribution before its first release.For founders and operators, this episode is a masterclass in scaling a drinks brand with focus, discipline, and the confidence to double down when the market says yes.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks website (sign up for our newsletter!)Business of Drinks YouTubeBusiness of Drinks LinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry's most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.Erica Duecy LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.Scott Rosenbaum LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.Caroline Lamb LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today's conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you're listening, and don't forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

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Is there an alcohol that you will NEVER drink again? Slacker and Erica have several!

Full show - Tuesday | St. Patrick's Day shenanigans | News or Nope - St. Patrick's Day deals, Taylor Frankie Paul, and a CO funeral home | T. Hack made some friends | Veterinarian stories | What gifts should Erica give out at her bachelorette party? | Drinks you'll never have again | Should Slacker go on this reality TV show? | The 6:30pm Rule | Stupid stories www.instagram.com/theslackershow www.instagram.com/ericasheaaa www.instagram.com/thackiswack www.instagram.com/radioerin Yi!

They didn't grow up in the drinks industry. They didn't have investors lined up. They had £12,000, two corporate jobs, and a spicy margarita made on a balcony during lockdown.In this episode of Screw It Just DO It, I sit down with Alice Parmiter and Wynter Karo, co-founders of Pimentae, to unpack how they turned a tequila knowledge gap into one of the UK's fastest-growing tequila cocktail brands.From discovering real tequila culture in Mexico to spotting a gap in UK supermarkets, they bootstrapped their first 1,400 bottles, hand-delivered influencer hampers, and then put £20,000 down to run a festival bar with no safety net.That decision funded their business.Since then, they've raised £2 million, scaled into grocery, travel and festival spaces, navigated a product recall, and built a brand rooted in community and authenticity.This is not a “glam startup” story. It's about blind optimism, operational mistakes, difficult fundraising conversations, and staying aligned as co-founders.Key Takeaways• Why blind optimism is often required at the start• How bootstrapping builds stronger commercial discipline• The risks of taking the wrong investor too early• Why festivals became their most powerful customer acquisition tool• How authenticity protects your brand as you scale

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In this episode, Gary and Shannon dive into a mix of topics. They start by discussing the rise of infused drinks, specifically THC beverages, and how they're changing the way people socialize. The conversation then shifts to a true crime story about Ralph Coleman, a Vietnam War veteran who fought for PTSD treatment in prisons. The hosts also share some lighter moments in the 10 news nuggets, including a story about a man who stole a flamingo from a Las Vegas hotel. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We talk crazy food combos and build plus its Jeffy's Birthday!

+++music only+++music only+++music only+++ 11/26 Deep House by Maik Pahlsmeyer live @ Club Business Radio Show 13.03.2026 Mit Ausgabe 11/26 der Club Business Radio Show präsentiert Maik Pahlsmeyer ein besonders emotionales Deep-House-Set, das sofort Bilder im Kopf entstehen lässt. Der Sound dieser Stunde erinnert an warme Sommerabende mit Freunden, Open-Air-Partys, Füße im Sand, gute Drinks in der Hand und Musik, die einen einfach tanzen und den Moment genießen lässt. Genau diese Atmosphäre transportiert dieses Set. Die Tracks sind geprägt von tiefen Grooves, eleganten Melodien und Vocals mit echtem Gänsehaut-Faktor. Musik zum Eintauchen, Loslassen und Treibenlassen – perfekt für lange Nächte und besondere Momente auf dem Dancefloor. Im Mix zu hören sind unter anderem Tracks von Guy J, Elisa Elisa, Tim Green, Wordlife sowie weiteren Artists aus der internationalen Deep-House-Szene. Die Sendung wurde am Freitag ab 21 Uhr auf Radio Bielefeld und Radio Gütersloh ausgestrahlt und ist jetzt auf SoundCloud zum Nachhören verfügbar.

Claire Warner helped build Belvedere Vodka for 15 years.She created 13 expressions. She climbed the ranks inside LVMH. She understood how premium alcohol brands scale.Then she made a call most people would avoid.She decided the world did not need another vodka.In this Bite-Sized episode of Screw It Just DO It, Claire explains why she left a secure leadership position to build Æcorn Drinks, how a forgotten 16th century acorn wine recipe became the foundation of a modern aperitif, and why launching three complex products at once was a risk worth taking.We also unpack what it means to build your own identity as the sister brand to Seedlip, how Covid disrupted their first real summer, and why innovation in this space has to be flavour-led, not alcohol-led.This is not about sobriety. It is about redefining the ritual.Key Takeaways• Why experience in a category can become a reason to leave it• The strategic risk of launching multiple SKUs at once• How to build brand distinction when linked to a market pioneer• Why aperitif culture matters more than alcohol percentage

How We Seeez It! Episode 327,  Sinners “There are legends of people... born with the gift of making music so true, it can pierce the veil between life and death. Conjuring spirits from the past... and the future.”– Annie. Oscars are this Sunday. So, we are coving one more best Picture nominees. Ryan Coogler's written and directed period drama folk horror. Michael B. Jordon lead as always in a Coogler film. With Sixteen nominations in this year's Oscars, will it be the movie of the year? Join us for our discussion on it and don't forget about our cocktails for this episode. There should be some good ones.         As always, mix a drink, have a listen, and let us know what you think. Or if there is something you watched that we might enjoy or a can't miss series. Also please rate and review show on all your favorite podcast apps. Drinks for the episode. "Smoke Stack"   Shared base:     1½ oz bourbon     ½ oz lemon juice     ½ oz demerara syrup     2 dashes Angostura bitters     small pinch salt   Red Hat (Fire/Sin)     Add to base:     ¼ oz Ancho Reyes chili liqueur     1 barspoon amaro     Garnish with a cherry     and smoke with hickory   Blue Hat (Cool/Redemption)     Add to base:     ¼ oz blueberry liqueur     1 barspoon St-Germain elderflower     Garnish with a blueberry     and smoke with hickory “Juke Joint” 3 oz Southern Comfort  1 oz Nixta Corn Liqueur 1 oz Sloe Gin .5 oz Blood Orange bitters .5 oz lime infused simple syrup  Half of a fresh squeezed lemon Over ice    Smithwick's Irish Red Ale   Show links. https://hwsi.podbean.com/e/sinners-2025/  HWSI LinkTree HWSI Facebook Link  HWSI Instagram Link HWSI Youtube link !!  You can also email the Podcast at the.HWSI.podcast@gmail.com

Stefan made a little trip down to Barcelona to check out the beer scene. He found a lot of great places to try. Of course, he brought back beers to drink with Martin. GatBrewing is just getting started and they are off to a good start. Hopstronaut Nectaron aka. HOPSTRONAUT and the Wrath of Doctor NECTARON is a tropical NEIPA with nectaron and riwaka hops. DosKiwis has been around for a bit longer.  Big Think is also a NEIPA but made with citra cryo, riwaka, nelson sauvin and motueka hops. It's two juicy, tropic beers this episode and we couldn't be happier.  #beer #craftbeer #drinks #neipa

Yes, it's British Pie Week. And yes, we're not afraid to celebrate it with a whole episode dedicated to British Pies! We've got pork pies, apple pies and cream pies (not that kind) for your viewing or listening pleasure. I'd say there is one pie moment that does require the visual if you're up for it.Producers: Sam Martin and Connor HaylesMusic: Anne ChmelewskyArtwork: Lucy Moore

How do large hospitality groups decide which drinks brands make it onto their menus — and which ones don't?In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with Miranda Breedlove, Beverage Director for The Lifestyle Group at Hyatt, to unpack how beverage decisions actually get made inside one of the world's largest hospitality companies.Miranda oversees beverage strategy across 70+ lifestyle properties and roughly 75 venues spanning brands like Thompson Hotels, Andaz, Dream Hotels, and The Standard. Unlike many hotel groups, Hyatt's lifestyle division doesn't replicate bar concepts. Each property has its own identity and sense of place, which means beverage programs must balance national supplier partnerships with local creativity.For drinks founders, distributors, and operators, the conversation offers a rare look at how hospitality groups evaluate brands — and what it takes to scale inside those systems.• Distribution is the first gatekeeperBefore a brand can even be considered for multi-property hospitality programs, it must demonstrate reliable distribution, consistent pricing, and strong distributor coverage across markets.• Scaling usually starts with a pilotEven promising brands rarely roll out everywhere immediately. Miranda often tests new products in three to five properties across different markets before expanding further.• Local support drives successBrands gain traction when reps educate bar teams, build relationships, and actively support the account. Teams respond to people and stories — not just bottles.• National structure, local identityHyatt provides a national framework, but each property adapts its beverage program to reflect the local market and guest profile.• Experiential activations winGuest bartender takeovers, masterclasses, and other immersive experiences keep teams and guests engaged far more effectively than routine promotions.• Data is an underused advantageTools like menu matrix analysis and strong P&L literacy help operators identify which drinks truly drive profitability.If you want to understand how hospitality groups actually make beverage decisions, this episode offers a rare look behind the curtain.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks website (sign up for our newsletter!)Business of Drinks YouTubeBusiness of Drinks LinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry's most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.Erica Duecy LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.Scott Rosenbaum LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.Caroline Lamb LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today's conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you're listening, and don't forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

In todays episode Ryan attempts to squash the rumors after he is "caught" in one of our videos, We then break down Evans flight anxiety and WHY ken drinks on planes, Micahs insane hair growth, Shred Eighties Recovery from crashes, the Danger of being A filmer for CboysTV, Meeting Jonny Knoxville, Crazy Collabs, and Most importantly, putting an END to the Gavin hate Micah Sandman Bowl Cut at 1 Million subscribers! Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zz85607d #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement. Cash App Green, overdraft coverage, borrow, cash back offers and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. To watch the podcast on YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LifeWideOpenYT⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LifeWideOpenWithCboysTV⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you like the show, telling a friend about it would be amazing! You can text, email, or send this link to a friend: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/LifeWideOpenWithCboysTV⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ You can also check out our main YouTube channel CboysTV: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/CboysTV⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠    

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If you've struggled with how to navigate your sobriety journey when your partner still drinks, then this episode is for you. Relationship expert Dr. Alexandra Solomon joins me for a chat about how to navigate big transitions in your long term relationship. We'll discuss her three books Loving Bravely, Taking Sexy Back, and Love Every Day, and Alexandra will share her thoughts on couples therapy, navigating growth in mid-life, and how to set loving boundaries. Check out my episode on Dr. Alexandra's podcast with my husband, Russell! Community makes all the difference. Join The Sober Mom Life Cafe for 6+ Peer Support meetings each week and a private Facebook group to connect with sober and sober-curious women. Join us inside of Fresh 30! Get Your Copy of my book! The Sober Shift Follow on Instagram @thesobermomlifeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Board-certified family medicine physician Dr. Mikhail Varshavski shares tips on how to sleep better and wake up more refreshed. Also, Kathie Lee Gifford stops by to discuss her new book "Nero and Paul - How the Gospel of Grace Defeated the Ruler of Rome". Plus, sommelier Vanessa Price shares four "morning booster" drinks to replace coffee and provide energy.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week we welcome in resident bracketologist Drinks w/ Ron to break down sixteen of the 80s most memorable toys! That's right. Everything from He-Man & Thundercats to Cabbage Patch Kids & Teddy Ruxpin. What will these three nostalgics vote as the best toy of the 1980s??And if you enjoy what we are doing here at the Pit and would like to support us further, please check us out our patreon, where we have an entire exclusive podcast coming out soon! That's right, the extended episodes are leaving, but you'll still get content early as well as exclusive access to rewatches and bonus podcasts. Today on the final extended Patreon edition, we tease what the new podcast is, as well as the future of Rob's new podcast The Franchise Doctors, out streaming everywhere. All that, and a bag of chips.Make sure you sign up for our live watch-a-longs, happening Tuesdays throughout 2026. We got Twin Peaks alternating with nostalgic movies all year. Free to sign up! Links in bio.Alrighty then, lets get to it…Twin Peaks Tuesdays!Monthly Movie Watchalongs!EtsyLinktreeYoutubeAralessThe Franchise Doctors - OUT NOW!song at end of episode: Never Wanted to Know - AralessInstagram:@ruining_your.childhood@feral_williams@aralessbmn@blackmagicnoize206@strangeloopanimation

In this episode, Janina takes us deep into one of the most dramatic stories in wine history - the arrival of phylloxera in 19th century Europe - and explores how that crisis continues to shape the wines we drink today. She is joined by Jamie Goode -  wine writer, judge, lecturer and author with a PhD in plant biology - to unpack the science behind grafting, the myth and magic of old vines, forgotten grape varieties, and whether ungrafted vines truly produce better wines. From Japan's wax paper “hats” protecting grape bunches, to Barossa's centenarian vineyards, to modern disease-resistant varieties like Voltis and Floréal, this episode blends history, science and future-facing viticulture in one fascinating conversation. If you've ever wondered whether ungrafted vines are superior, what actually happens during grafting, or how climate change might reshape grape varieties - this is your episode. 02:59 – The most surprising wine region Jamie has visited so far is Japan's with it's unique vineyard practices. 04:45 – Koshu explained - is it Japan's most exciting grape variety, or are international grapes performing better? 06:38 – Behind the scenes of filming The Science of Wine (available to watch on WinemastersTV or Prime Video) - vineyards, Mosel landscapes and the unexpected challenges of production. 09:54 – Composing the soundtrack on the spot - Jamie's spontaneous vineyard music recordings. 10:41 – Ungrafted vines: are they genuinely better, or is the answer more nuanced? 15:24 – The phylloxera story step by step - how one 19th-century plant import reshaped global wine. 20:53 – Forgotten varieties and whether they could make a comeback in the face of climate change. 22:46 – Loïc Pasquet (Liber Pater) and the revival of pre-phylloxera Bordeaux varieties. 29:04 – Francs de Pied movement - preserving ungrafted vineyards and the debate around their relevance. 31:21 – EU regulations and why planting ungrafted vines is often restricted. 31:55 – Rootstock resistance failures in California and Australia - are we facing new phylloxera risks? 34:33 – Soil microbiome experiments - could beneficial microorganisms protect ungrafted vines? 36:20 – How do you graft a vine? Omega grafts, English grafts and T-bud grafting explained. 40:49 – Inside a vine nursery - what really happens behind the scenes. 42:23 – Old vines vs young vines - do older vines truly produce better wines? 46:05 – Why old vines often yield less fruit - aging, pruning and vine physiology. 47:25 – Recommended wines from ungrafted and old vines - Barossa, Chile, Argentina and beyond. 49:09 – At-home wine experiments - blending your own Bordeaux-style wine and even propagating vine cuttings. 51:28 – What's next for Jamie - new book releases and upcoming projects. 52:37 – Links to Jamie's books and further reading. 53:21 – Next week: Deep Dive Flashcards - The Rhône Valley. Have you tasted wines from ungrafted vines - a true pied franc? Did they feel purer, more transparent… or is that simply romance in the glass?

Nutrition Nugget! Bite-sized bonus episodes offer tips, tricks and approachable science. This week, Jenn is talking about Dunkin's Protein Drinks. Dunkin' has officially jumped on the protein bandwagon and is rolling out a new line of protein drinks that have everyone asking: Are these actually a good source of protein? Jenn went straight to the source, visiting multiple Dunkin' locations, digging into the nutrition facts PDF, and asking the questions most of us never think to ask. What she found might surprise you. On the one hand, Dunkin' uses a real, recognizable dairy-based milk with a clean ingredient list and no added sweeteners or emulsifiers. On the other hand, the protein count may not be quite what the marketing suggests. Jenn also addresses the ingredients that go into your cup beyond that protein milk so that you can decide for yourself if this is a smart, satisfying option or just another trend wrapped in clever branding. Like what you're hearing? Be sure to check out the full-length episodes of new releases every Wednesday. Have an idea for a nutrition nugget? Submit it here: https://asaladwithasideoffries.com/index.php/contact/ RESOURCES:Become a Happy Healthy Hub MemberJenn's Free Menu PlanA Salad With a Side of FriesA Salad With A Side Of Fries MerchA Salad With a Side of Fries InstagramNutrition Nugget: Flavor SyrupsNutrition Nugget: Fairlife Protein ShakeKEYWORDS: Jenn Trepeck, Nutrition Nugget, Salad With A Side Of Fries, Health Tips, Wellness Tips, Dunkin Protein Drink, Protein Drinks, Fast Food Nutrition, Dunkin Menu, Protein Milk, Lactose Free Milk, Lactaid Brand, Nutrition Facts, Coffee Drinks, Protein Content, Starbucks Protein Drinks, Sugar Free Syrup, Vanilla Syrup, Almond Syrup, Protein Latte, Protein Refresher, Nutrition Nugget, Weight Loss, Wellness Podcast, Health Coach, Healthy Coffee Options, Nutrition Labels, Filtered Skim Milk, Reduced Fat Milk, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Lactase Enzyme, Artificial Growth Hormone Free, Dairy Milk, Non Dairy Options, Coffee Additives, Food Marketing, Added Sugar, Saturated Fat, Nutrition Myths, Healthy Eating, Protein Powder, Fast Food Coffee, Megan Thee Stallion Dunkin, Protein Trend, Is Dunkin Protein Drink Actually Healthy, Dunkin Protein Drink Nutrition Facts Review, Protein Coffee

After celebrating a big dodgeball team win, Jeff thought sparks were flying with Caitlyn. Drinks were flowing, chemistry felt undeniable, and the night ended better than he expected. But after what seemed like a great time together, Caitlyn suddenly stopped replying to his texts.

After celebrating a big dodgeball team win, Jeff thought sparks were flying with Caitlyn. Drinks were flowing, chemistry felt undeniable, and the night ended better than he expected. But after what seemed like a great time together, Caitlyn suddenly stopped replying to his texts.

Shohei Ohtani on Cycle Watch at WBC and Best Drinks To End the Night full 822 Fri, 06 Mar 2026 12:16:08 +0000 sdE4IjRVUYp15dAGYr0EqldievRcv4gD mlb,kansas city royals,wbc,sports Fescoe & Dusty mlb,kansas city royals,wbc,sports Shohei Ohtani on Cycle Watch at WBC and Best Drinks To End the Night Fescoe in the Morning. One guy is a KU grad.   The other is on the KU football broadcast team,  but their loyalty doesn't stop there as these guys  are huge fans of Kansas City sports and the people  of Kansas City who make it the great city it is.   Start your morning with us at 5:58am!   2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc. Sports False https://player.amperwave

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Martin Coco, Cardinals Marketing Director is here, and policing drinks!- h2 full 2286 Thu, 05 Mar 2026 21:59:34 +0000 6IG90a7J9CNf28pY4cBFQS6Z8VGONTWx comedy,religion & spirituality,society & culture,news,government The Dave Glover Show comedy,religion & spirituality,society & culture,news,government Martin Coco, Cardinals Marketing Director is here, and policing drinks!- h2 The Dave Glover Show has been driving St. Louis home for over 20 years. Unafraid to discuss virtually any topic, you'll hear Dave and crew's unique perspective on current events, news and politics, and anything and everything in between. © 2025 Audacy, Inc. Comedy Religion & Spirituality Society & Culture News Government False https://player.am

In this data-driven conversation with Dr. Kevin Peterson, some of the topics we discuss include: How winding down Castalia and Sfumato after a decade of service provided the impetus for this new project, and why Kevin has set out to address a very different set of questions than in his last book, Cocktail Theory. Why matching a person with their ideal drink is very different (and much more difficult, it turns out) from trying to make the optimal Old Fashioned or Negroni or Daiquiri. This leads to a conversation about all the variables that go into cocktail preference: sweetness, acidity, bitterness, booziness, effervescence, egg white, spiciness, and so much more - how does one begin to build such a high-dimensional beverage algorithm in pursuit of aesthetic pleasure? We also discuss some of the algorithmic tests that good bar programs and bartenders can implement in order to zero in on guest preferences more quickly. These include good menu writing, the classic bartender's choice speed interview, and the possibility for creating a guest profile with likes and dislikes. Along the way, we explore why spicy drinks are a trap, the sea change I experienced the first time I tasted Green Chartreuse, the idea of perceptual thresholds in cocktails and in life, and much, much more.  

Allen and RD try Mike's Zero Sugar Hard Lemonade.Cheers!Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/strikeout-beer--2992189/support.

The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

Thursday March 5, 2026 Open: There is a progression of Jesus away from the crowd and toward the loneliness of the... for full notes: https://www.cgtruth.org/index.php?proc=msg&sf=vw&tid=3267

How We Seeez It! Episode 326,  F1: the Movie “Plan C for "chaos".”– Kate McKenna. As we get close to the Oscars, we have decided to look at a few of the best Picture nominees. Joseph Kosinski follows his 2023 Best Motion Picture nominee for Top Gun: Maverick. With another adrenaline driven, technology pushing, basic story with spectacular moving visuals. Headed by Brad Pitt in his highest pay day so far. Can this two a half hour F1 commercial bring in new fans and maybe a few awards. Join us for our discussion on it and don't forget about our cocktails for this episode. There should be some good ones.         As always, mix a drink, have a listen, and let us know what you think. Or if there is something you watched that we might enjoy or a can't miss series. Also please rate and review show on all your favorite podcast apps. Drinks for the episode. "The Dirty Air Martini" 2 oz Malfy Gin Originale ½ oz Cocchi Extra Dry Vermouth di Torino ¼ oz olive brine 2 drops saline solution 1 dash orange bitters 4 olives, freshly pitted Fill the cavity with minced lemon zest mixed with a drop of olive oil and a pinch of salt “Chaos cocktail” “2.5 oz Skatter Brain Dark Cherry Vanilla whisky 1 oz Raspberry Vodka 3 oz Pineapple Juice  .5 oz Blood Orange Bitters Shaken and poured over ice top with Ginger Beer   Show links. https://hwsi.podbean.com/e/f1-the-movie/  HWSI LinkTree HWSI Facebook Link HWSI Instagram Link HWSI Youtube link !! You can also email the Podcast at the.HWSI.podcast@gmail.com

Keith Fullenweider, chair of Vinson & Elkins, discusses the influence his father had on his career, how he built a PE practice, what he looks for in lateral hires and how he manages challenging conversations. 

Spring is almost here, and there's a lot happening in Kent. In this episode of KentNow, we talk about the unusual winter weather and why Washington's mountain snowpack still matters for our water supply and environment. We also get ready to spring forward for Daylight Saving Time, debate favorite Little Debbie snacks, and check in on some fun food news. On the city side, Mayor Dana Ralph's State of the City address is just weeks away, we recap recent City Council activity, and share opportunities for residents to get involved from Drinks in the Driveway neighborhood conversations to lodging tax grants, neighborhood matching grants, recycling events, and Green Kent volunteer opportunities. We also sit down with Stephanie King, Recruitment Manager for the City of Kent, to talk about careers in public service, what makes local government work unique, and how people can explore job opportunities with the city. Plus, a quick Did You Know? about Washington's mountain snowpack and why what happens in the Cascades during winter affects our water, environment, and economy all year long.

We finally made it to one of Malmö's oldest drinking establisments. Bullen was founded in 1897 and has continued to sling beer and simple dishes. Over the years it's evolved into a Malmö mainstay. We've been going for years. It never fails to provide a good time. They specialize in importing beers from Czech Monastery Zeliv. Based on their website, they are the only bar in the world where you can get these beers on tap. We start out with Poutovy Special Jirikovo Videni a 5% ABV Polish grodziskie. We never see these anywhere so of course we had to try it. Falco 14 is a 5.5% ABV dark larger. It's light, roasty and always a treat. #beer #craftbeer #drinks #grodziskie #darklager

Timon played paintball, Jake heard the worst National Anthem ever, and Brad has a dilemma with his contractor. Check out Cozy Earth and get 20% off site wide with this link: http://www.cozyearth.com/ghostrunners Check out Main Street Roasters and use code GRKC at check out for a 10% discount! https://mainstreetroasters.com Ghostrunners merch: https://bit.ly/399MXFu Become a Patron and get exclusive content from Jake & Brad: https://bit.ly/2XJ1h3y Follow us on Instagram: http://bit.ly/33WAq4P Leave us a voice memo and ask a question: https://anchor.fm/jake-triplett/message Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you have a family member/loved one struggling with addiction? Join Our FREE WEBCLASS! https://familyreconnectprogram.com/optin-page Is your husband's alcoholism affecting your family? You're not alone — and you're not overreacting. In this video I'm going to give you three things: clarity on what you're actually dealing with, a real strategy based on who your husband is, and permission to start taking care of yourself. We cover the difference between problem drinking and alcohol use disorder, the 11 clinical signs from the DSM-5 in plain language, what actually works when talking to your husband (and what makes things worse), and how to protect yourself and your kids regardless of what he decides to do.  Whether you just started noticing something is wrong or you've been living this for years — this video is for you.

In this episode of Novel Spirits, the team delves into the narrative-driven video game: Dispatch. Exploring its unique gameplay mechanics, narrative & character design, and the impact of player choices on the story. It's our first non-written medium review as Novel Spirits and a true recognition of the studio's mantra - books, comics, and games. It's a Mecha-sized adventure with a lot of twists and turns, and definitely an all-time favorite. Play along, or listen along. Either way - enjoy! Remember, if it can be read, it can be reviewed, and it can be done so with a fancy spirit at hand!   Dispatch: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2592160/Dispatch/ 0-0-8 Studios - https://0-0-8studios.com/ Spirits of the Month: https://www.wildturkeybourbon.com/en-us/?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1687936318&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7fbLBhDJARIsAOAqhsfYcFQ-29_VhFQM_0TBeawY0sScktl6GfgyKB31C5PDfVsY3xYe10oaAiMDEALw_wcB

In an era of low-and-no headlines, one contrarian wine brand leaned into flavor high ABV. It scaled to 2.5 million cases in just three years.In this episode of Business of Drinks, Erica sits down with Kaitlin Silva, Director of National Accounts at Tri-Vin Wines & Spirits, to unpack how XXL went from roughly 85,000 cases in its first year (2023) to 2.5 million cases in 2025, while much of wine was flat or declining.The story isn't just about virality; it's about execution.XXL didn't start by winning Walmart. It was built in independent markets first - including roughly 100,000 cases in Maryland and about 300,000 cases in New York in year two. Consumers were actively looking for the brand. That pull-through gave Tri-Vin leverage when approaching national chains. Kaitlin offers a rare inside look at how national accounts actually function, with two reset windows a year and six-to-eight-month feedback loops. It's a “hurry up and wait” cycle where you're pitching into fall's reset before knowing your spring results. We also discuss how data is the real language of chains. Kaitlin talks about living in SKU rankings, flavor segmentation, and state-by-state performance slicing. As she says, you may not be top 100 overall - but you might be top 5 within a specific subsegment in that region, and that's the conversation that opens doors.Perhaps most interesting for trade listeners: Velocity is currently winning over pure margin optimization. Many chains are focused on moving units and driving incremental shoppers in a value-conscious environment. XXL's ability to turn - and to bring new consumers into the wine aisle - has been central to its expansion.If you're building a beverage brand, pitching national accounts, or trying to understand where wine's real growth pockets are emerging, this episode offers perspective on how independents create momentum, how data earns scale, and why sometimes the biggest opportunity comes from zigging while everyone else zags.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks:YouTubeLinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry's most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today's conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you're listening, and don't forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

In this episode of Take-Away with Sam Oches, Sam talks with Jim Rehm, the founder of Pineapple Hospitality Group, alongside vice president of culinary Jessica Tomlinson. Pineapple owns five going on six restaurants in the Tampa area, and the restaurants flourish on homey atmosphere that Jim has been developing over the course of his nearly 50-year career in restaurants. In fact, Jim believes so much in restaurants treating guests like family that most of his actual family is involved in the business. Jessica, meanwhile, is a veteran of restaurant chains that was brought in last year to further fuel the culinary creativity across Pineapple's five concepts. Sam recently sat down with Jim and Jessica inside their restaurant Craft Street Kitchen & Drinks to talk more about their commitment to hospitality and creativity and how it's helped them through this challenging economy. In this conversation, you'll find out why:People remember how you made them feel more than what you said The first 90 seconds that a guest is in your restaurant are among the most importantGreat hospitality starts at the job interviewWhen launching a new concept, you're writing a new story to share with guestsA multi-concept portfolio will allow your team's creativity to flourish Have feedback or ideas for Take-Away? Email Sam at sam.oches@informa.com.

Join Andreas Steno and Mikkel Rosenvold for this month's Drinks With Real Vision. With drinks in hand, they'll break down the latest in stocks, commodities, and geopolitics, share a few personal updates, and unpack what's really driving markets right now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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In this episode, I talk with drinks writer Henry Jeffreys about how John le Carré used various alcoholic beverages in his work. We talk about Henry's interactions with le Carré while he working in publishing, le Carré's legacy and what goes into the drink called a White Lady. In addition, we explore different types of […]

Hello Bravo Bosses! Today's episode is audio only but you can watch the audio version on YouTube! Today we are diving into The Valley Persian Style (2:10), Southern Charm (22:06) and RHOBH (33:35)! Love you BBs! Join the Patreon for $5 a month to get 4 extra episodes a month! ad free episodes! early episodes! and bonus content! Join the fun at patreon.com/thebravoinvestigatorpodcast YouTube  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tik Tok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook NOTE: No claims have been verified and all information today is alleged, speculation, and is intended purely just for fun. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of the fire sprinkler podcast is my conversation poolside with Daniel Wake. We recorded this in Maui at the NFSA business and leadership conference in 2023, we talk about his history in the fire protection industry, how he got into the position he is in now, and how much the industry has changed over the past 20 years Enjoy!

Episode 155: Andy returns this week as we break down the Seahawks' second Super Bowl title and what it means for the franchise. We recap our Phoenix Open experience in Scottsdale, I officially join the big 5-0 Club, and we dive into new music news — from Van Halen searching for a new singer to upcoming releases from the Foo Fighters and the legendary William Shatner. 0:00 - Cold Open / Intro (Lee Michaels)1:24 - Andy Gator2:27 - The Phoenix Open8:35 - Birthday Milestone11:07 - Super Bowl Champions19:37 - Seahawks Up For Sale22:00 - The Halftime Shows24:25 - William Shatner / Pat Boone27:45 - New Van Halen Music32:03 - Foo Fighters / U2 / Sugar Ray38:29 - Reese's Recipe Debate42:46 - CWU Trivia / Cake45:38 - Outro / Close

Nutrition Nugget! Bite-sized bonus episodes offer tips, tricks and approachable science. This week, Jenn is talking about zero-calorie drinks and whether they are really the guilt-free option we have been led to believe. A well-known Copenhagen study compared four groups of people who drank a liter a day of regular soda, diet soda, milk, or water for six months, and the results were surprising enough to stop anyone mid-sip. Could a beverage with absolutely no calories still be working against your blood sugar, waistline and your metabolism? What do your gut, your pancreas, and even your taste buds have to do with it? Jenn digs into the science, questions the study's details, and shares what she has seen play out in real life with herself and her clients for years. But before you toss your diet soda or defend it to the end, you should hear what Jenn has to say about who this affects, why, and whether the calorie count on the label is telling you anywhere near the whole story. Like what you're hearing? Be sure to check out the full-length episodes of new releases every Wednesday. Have an idea for a nutrition nugget? Submit it here: https://asaladwithasideoffries.com/index.php/contact/ RESOURCES:Become a Happy Healthy Hub MemberJenn's Free Menu PlanA Salad With a Side of FriesA Salad With A Side Of Fries MerchA Salad With a Side of Fries InstagramNutrition Nugget: IQ MixCopenhagen StudyKEYWORDS: Jenn Trepeck, Nutrition Nugget, Salad With A Side Of Fries, Health Tips, Wellness Tips, Zero Calorie Drinks, Diet Soda, Artificial Sweeteners, Aspartame, Insulin Response, Blood Sugar, Weight Gain, Gut Microbiome, Metabolic Health, Calorie Counting, Sugar Cravings, Glucagon, Pancreas, Glucose, Fat Burning, Gut Bacteria, Sweet Taste Addiction, Copenhagen Study, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Diet Cola, Regular Soda, Sugar Soda, Milk, Water Intake, BMI, Non-Diabetic Subjects, Weight Loss, Caloric Beverages, Nutrition Research, Food Cravings, Hormones, Insulin Levels, Blood Pressure, Overweight, Obese, Beverage Choices, Wellness, Weight Management, Health Coaching, Microbiome, Nutrition Science, Zero Calorie Drinks And Weight Gain, Do Diet Sodas Cause Insulin Response

Thanks to Cozy Earth for sponsoring this video. Go to cozyearth.com/LOVERS for up to 20% off!—----------------------- In this episode of Lovers, I share something personal: the ways my own social media habit began affecting my presence, my focus, and ultimately my intimacy. Jared joins the conversation to reflect on the intervention he had with me when he realized my relationship with my phone wasn’t just a habit, it was beginning to shape our connection. Then we’re joined by psychiatrist and Dopamine Nation author Dr. Anna Lembke, who explains why addiction today looks different than it did even a generation ago. We live in a world where high-dopamine substances and behaviors, from alcohol and porn to social media, smut, gaming, and endless scrolling, are instantly accessible and socially normalized. Dr. Lembke breaks down how these habits rewire the brain’s reward system, dull pleasure, increase craving, and quietly erode intimacy. We talk about porn addiction, phone addiction, alcoholism, erotic content consumption, and the broader crisis of overconsumption that defines modern life. Most importantly, Dr. Lembke offers practical tools, many of which she teaches in her class on MasterClass and outlines in Dopamine Nation, to help us reset our dopamine systems and reclaim our relationships. This isn’t just an episode about addiction. It’s about presence, connection, and what it takes to love well in the most addictive era in human history. To Watch Dopamine on MasterClass go to http://masterclass.com/lovers (this link will get you 15% off an annual plan to watch over 200 classes there including mine)Follow Dr. Anna Lembke Dr. Anna Lembke is a Stanford psychiatrist and New York Times bestselling author specializing in addiction, dopamine science, and behavioral health. Official Website → https://www.annalembke.com Bestselling Book → Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/?ean=9781524746728 Stanford Profile → https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/Anna_Lembke Watch her class on MasterClass → http://masterclass.com/lovers Want more Lover?Receive the weekly Love Letter → http://loversbyshan.com/newsletterJoin the Lovers Community → https://www.loversbyshan.com/communityExplore quizzes and worksheets → http://loversbyshan.com/quizzes If you haven’t subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now’s the perfect time → lemonadapremium.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

https://www.patreon.com/jarmedia Timecodes: 00:00 Intro 06:01 Housekeeping 09:07 Robots in Cities 17:44 Insane British Show 'Fat Families' 24:14 Mid Break 26:15 Fav Low Cal SNACK 27:18 Sony Shut down Bluepoint 34:42 Xbox Gaming Weird AI Man 35:48 If you owned an island... 36:38 Last Time you Fell Over 37:51 The Pawnee People 39:12 Jim was MET 40:31 What ending did you get? 43:07 the WORST GAME 50:32 Xbox Lament 52:06 The Wolf Question #BroCastS7E7