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In this episode Will talks with John Tobias, founder of Red Cedar Transitions. John shares his journey from working at Boulder Outdoor Survival School to Aspen Achievement Academy and other wilderness therapy programs to establishing Red Cedar Transitions in Asheville, North Carolina. He discusses the evolution of his career, blending wilderness therapy, coaching, and psychotherapy, and highlights the flexibility and individualized approach of Red Cedar's community-based model. John emphasizes the importance of supporting young adults as they navigate transitions, providing them with tools for independence while staying connected to the real world. The conversation explores the changing landscape of wilderness therapy, including the decline of traditional programs and the rise of alternative models like Red Cedar that cater to modern young adults' needs. John also reflects on the power of nature-based therapy and its potential to adapt and thrive despite industry challenges. With a focus on action-oriented coaching and the integration of therapeutic principles, John shares his vision for the future, emphasizing flexibility and responsiveness to the rapidly evolving needs of young people.
In this episode Will engages in a profound conversation with Danny Frazer, co-founder of the former Open Sky Wilderness Therapy program and founder of Gain the Ridge Consulting. Danny shares his journey into the field of wilderness therapy, beginning as an intern at Galena Ridge and progressing to roles at Aspen Achievement Academy. He reflects on the audacious vision that led to the founding of Open Sky in 2006, highlighting how they integrated innovative practices like yoga, meditation, naturopathic medicine, and extensive family involvement—elements that were revolutionary at the time. Danny discusses his leadership roles, including serving as the chair of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Council, where he emphasized collaboration and ethical practices to advance the field. The conversation delves into the challenging decision to close Open Sky in early 2024 after 18 years of operation. Danny candidly examines the multifaceted reasons behind the closure, including negative media portrayals of wilderness therapy, societal shifts in parenting styles, increased competition from insurance-covered programs, and the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. He shares his personal process of grief and reflection, which led to the creation of Gain the Ridge Consulting. Through his new venture, Danny aims to support leaders and organizations in behavioral healthcare by offering coaching and consulting services that focus on leadership development, risk management, and program evolution. He expresses optimism for the future of wilderness therapy, emphasizing the enduring power of nature in healing and personal growth. To listen an episode about the closure of Open Sky check out episode 221-The Closure of Open Sky: Is this the "Winter" of Wilderness Therapy?
In this episode of The Observatory, Dr. Madolyn Liebing joins the show to discuss the wilderness as an active participant in recovery that naturally facilitates healing, balance, and health. Dr. Madolyn is a renowned Wilderness Psychologist, Therapist, and Outdoor Behavioral Health Eagle Award Recipient. She is also the clinical director at Juniper Canyon Treatment Center and Legacy Treatment Center. Hear what drew Dr. Madolyn to nature, how she got into wilderness therapy treatment, and the results of the initial wilderness therapy experiment. She also talks about how humanity has moved away from nature and the five areas in which wilderness therapy treatment develops. Timestamps[01:32] Dr. Madolyn Liebing's background information[07:00] How Dr. Madolyn got into thewilderness therapy treatment[11:30] The origin of the Aspen Achievement Academy [14:21] The results of the original experiment of wilderness therapy [16:30] What Dr. Madolyn did during her time out from the practice [21:07] The average length of the wilderness therapy treatment[22:39] The inspiration behind Dr. Maddy's passion for nature and its healing methods [26:28] What drew Dr. Maddy to nature[29:29] How humanity has moved away from nature [33:17] The initial signs that show the treatment is working [34:57] The different types of trauma and different ways to treat them [42:36] The Right Of Passage (ROP) experiment [43:08] The five areas that the wilderness therapy treatment develops[48:05] The importance of ceremonies and rituals in our lives[53:00] The Clan of the Hand[01:03:20] What the future holds for Dr. MaddyNotable quotes:“Nature is one of the most amazing healing containers to spend time in.” - LaRae Wright.“Nature is so healing. Finding yourself in those challenging places is where a lot of that healing takes place.” - Scott.“Ceremonies and rituals are important in our lives because they can create an opening, an envelope, or a closing depending on what you are doing.” - Dr. Madolyn Liebing.“No one should stop you from loving. You should love no matter what.” - Dr. Madolyn Liebing.Relevant links:Legacy Treatment Center: https://legacyoutdooradventures.com/Juniper Canyon Treatment Center: https://junipercanyonrecovery.com/Subscribe to the podcast: Apple Podcast
Dr. Madolyn ("Maddy") Liebing is the Clinical Director of Legacy Outdoor Adventures and Juniper Recovery Center for Women. Maddy is a historical figure in wilderness therapy and has worked in the field since the 1970s. She was the first licensed psychologist to work in a primitive skills-oriented wilderness therapy program and helped develop many accreditation standards. She shares several stories, including the co-founding Wilderness Academy (later known as Aspen Achievement Academy) in 1988 and the challenges she has faced as a professional and a woman in the field. Maddy shares how Legacy and Juniper Canyon have been working with insurance companies to get reimbursement for services and her thoughts on where the wilderness field is heading. Bio from Legacy Website: Dr. Madolyn (“Maddy”) spent her childhood traveling and moving throughout The West. Her family spent time in many of the western states before settling in Southern Utah. Dr. Maddy grew up appreciating the outdoors and spending as much time as possible outside. She grew up to become an educator, teaching both English and history at a high school in Utah. She loved getting to know her students and was inspired to become a school counselor. While working as a high school counselor, Dr. Maddy started leading short wilderness trips as a drop-out prevention program in 1978. She was struck by the powerful experience her students had in the wilderness and while earning her Ph.D. wrote her dissertation about these “survival trips,” noting the positive impact they had on adolescents. What she might not have realized at the time, was that she was developing and shaping what would become the field of Wilderness Therapy. In 1988, Dr. Maddy was part of the team that founded Aspen Achievement Academy. She was integral in establishing that program and went on to advise the State of Utah as they created systems and regulations for the emerging field of Wilderness Therapy. Over the course of the next several decades, Maddy continued her work in the field, only taking time off to raise her own family. Dr. Maddy still finds time to get outside herself, and enjoys being with her children and grandchildren.
We are thrilled to introduce Success is Subjective, a new podcast hosted by Joanna Lilley, brought to you currently by Lilley Consulting. Much like Lilley Consulting, Success is Subjective is dedicated to all things related to emerging adulthood stories and therapeutic resources for young adults. Music to your ears! This podcast is a work in progress. I will experiment with different formats, concepts, and interviewees until after working out the kinks we produce consistent high-quality interviews, advice, and entertainment that you have come to associate with Joanna Lilley. For this reason, your feedback is greatly appreciated. Please send your comments to joanna@lilleyconsulting.com. In this episode I interview Guy Dumas of Continuum Coaching and Origins Wilderness.Contact information: guy@guydumas.comor (435) 820-4500In this episode, topics discussed include:His dad went blind when he was 10. He watched his dad struggle and adjusted!His dad said, “if you’re going to join the military, at least get an education.” So, Guy decided to go the route of West Point! He is proud to say he’s a “fine product of North Carolina public education!” He was on the Dean’s List – the list of people that needed a kick in the pants!The whole plebe experience is meant to stress you out. He believes that he might have been a better academic student at another institution.He was (mis)diagnosed with narcolepsy and was then discharged from active duty. Did he cure himself? No idea.After that shock, he decided that he wanted to be of service, and was looking for a sense of purpose! On the back of a Backpacker magazine, he saw an ad that said “Come work for the best!” and he took a job at Aspen Achievement Academy, where the wilderness ended up helping with his own recovery. He’s done all sorts of fun stuff that boils down to experiencing a challenge (like biking across country, or driving a VW bus through 48 states, etc.). His days are spent coaching young men into as they launch into adulthood - drawing them out to put in effort in their life."Do something Ranger, even if it's wrong!"Follow us on Lilley Consulting on Instagram, Facebook, and www.lilleyconsulting.com. Sponsored by: www.ParentTrainers.com
David has worked (and continues to with some organizations) with many of the wilderness survival programs in the country, including Boulder Outdoor Survival School (BOSS), Rabbit Stick and Winter Count (bi-annual primitive skills training events), Reevis Mountain, California Survival School, Pollen Circles, and Preppercon. He teaches on Native paints, ground stone tools, water procurement, desert navigation, stone age options vs. modern, desert food collection and preparation, shelter-building, fire-making and so much more.David is famous for his delicate arrowheads, beautiful stone pendants and bears and more recently paintings. David lovingly and mindfully works his craft and you know that whatever you might possess that David has created is imbued with his deeply spiritual love and respect for nature.David has been guiding people into the wilderness for decades, teaching them how to live and even thrive in the only seemingly desolate land of the SouthWest. He has worked with many struggling teens and their families with the Anasazi Foundation, and Aspen Achievement Academy, led the foundational Passages To Recovery group (an adult wilderness recovery program), was a senior instructor with BOSS for many many years, and leads groups into Mexico's very rural Copper Canyon to experience the Tarahumara, a very reclusive culture.If you are around David for any length of time you find him drumming or playing the piano, guitar or his lap dulcimer, singing songs both beautiful and sometimes funny and instructional - he has a great rap song called "Brush Your Teeth." davidholladay.rocks *****Pledge your interest in the upcoming East Forest Ceremony Concert event happening this winter in Salt Lake City. More info and join us at eastforest.org/tour Join the newsletter and be part of the East Forest Council Community. Listen to East Forest guided meditations on Spotify & Apple. Check out the East Forest x Ram Dass album on (Spotify & Apple) + East Forest's Music For Mushrooms: A Soundtrack For The Psychedelic Practitioner 5hr album (Spotify & Apple). *****Please rate Ten Laws w/East Forest on iTunes. It helps us get the guests you want to hear. Stay in the East Forest flow:Mothership: http://eastforest.org/IG: https://www.instagram.com/eastforest/FB: https://www.facebook.com/EastForestMusic/TW: https://twitter.com/eastforestmusic
David has worked (and continues to with some organizations) with many of the wilderness survival programs in the country, including Boulder Outdoor Survival School (BOSS), Rabbit Stick and Winter Count (bi-annual primitive skills training events), Reevis Mountain, California Survival School, Pollen Circles, and Preppercon. He teaches on Native paints, ground stone tools, water procurement, desert navigation, stone age options vs. modern, desert food collection and preparation, shelter-building, fire-making and so much more.David is famous for his delicate arrowheads, beautiful stone pendants and bears and more recently paintings. David lovingly and mindfully works his craft and you know that whatever you might possess that David has created is imbued with his deeply spiritual love and respect for nature.David has been guiding people into the wilderness for decades, teaching them how to live and even thrive in the only seemingly desolate land of the SouthWest. He has worked with many struggling teens and their families with the Anasazi Foundation, and Aspen Achievement Academy, led the foundational Passages To Recovery group (an adult wilderness recovery program), was a senior instructor with BOSS for many many years, and leads groups into Mexico's very rural Copper Canyon to experience the Tarahumara, a very reclusive culture.If you are around David for any length of time you find him drumming or playing the piano, guitar or his lap dulcimer, singing songs both beautiful and sometimes funny and instructional - he has a great rap song called "Brush Your Teeth."Turns out someone made him a website! - davidholladay.rocks Join the newsletter and be part of the East Forest Council Community. Listen to East Forest guided meditations on Spotify & Apple. Check out the East Forest x Ram Dass album on (Spotify & Apple) + East Forest's Music For Mushrooms: A Soundtrack For The Psychedelic Practitioner 5hr album (Spotify & Apple). *****Please rate Ten Laws w/East Forest on iTunes. It helps us get the guests you want to hear. Stay in the East Forest flow:Mothership: http://eastforest.org/IG: https://www.instagram.com/eastforest/FB: https://www.facebook.com/EastForestMusic/TW: https://twitter.com/eastforestmusic
Kirsten Bolt is a clinical therapist at Open Sky. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and began her journey into the field in 2004 as a field guide at Aspen Achievement Academy (AAA). She shares her story of being a field guide to being a clinician in a wilderness program. Kirsten shares her heartbreaking experience of being a clinician at AAA as it closed. After AAA closed Kirsten immediately called Open Sky Wilderness and was hired. Kirsten shares her amazing work with adolescent girls. Bio from Open Sky Website: Kirsten is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. She graduated from Syracuse University in 1999, Summa Cum Laude, with a BS in Health and Exercise Science. Instead of following her projected course to study Biomechanics, she turned west, seeking something that felt missing. That trip landed her in Utah amid stunning red-rock canyons, wide sandy rivers, and abundant sunshine. Kirsten finds wilderness to be a uniquely powerful setting for young people to connect to themselves, to others, and to their means of contributing to the world. Her wilderness therapy career began as a field guide in 2004. In that role, she felt drawn to the deeply intimate, interpersonal work that occurred with families, and in 2007 she enrolled at the University of Oregon to complete a graduate degree in Couple and Family Therapy. Her other clinical experiences enable her to understand complex intra- and interpersonal dynamics. Her clinical background includes working at the Center for Family Therapy in Eugene, Oregon, with couples, families, and individuals of all ages experiencing a wide variety of struggles. She facilitated bereavement support groups for elementary-aged children, served high school girls in an impoverished community, led mother-daughter support groups, and provided individual and family therapy services at a center for girls aged 10-18. Kirsten is particularly passionate about family therapy, and she believes family growth is vital in working with young people individually. Following graduate school, she worked for two years as a wilderness therapist at Aspen Achievement Academy and then, in 2011, joined Open Sky to deepen her holistic approach to wellness. Since then she has worked with adolescent boys and girls, as well as young adult men and women. Kirsten’s expertise and passion manifest most in working with adolescent girls. She works with a wide range of adolescent girls, from clinically complex, treatment-resistant girls with complicated family systems and externalizing behaviors to over-functioning girls who internalize their emotions and hurt themselves as a result. As a family therapist, Kirsten is skilled in clarifying complicated systemic issues and helping formulate a concrete diagnostic assessment. She is supportive of parents who might need extra coaching due to anxiety, grief, and other personal struggles. With her firm and directive approach, Kirsten confronts presenting issues and holds students and families accountable to their therapeutic work, while circumventing the shame that can interfere with progress. Kirsten evokes peer confrontation and challenge as an additional means to elicit change. Common themes she emphasizes are emotional regulation, assertive communication, identity development, vulnerability, and healthy relationships. She incorporates humor and playfulness and quickly develops strong therapeutic relationships. She works collaboratively and uses the entire treatment team (the family system, Open Sky staff, previous home professionals, educational consultants, etc.) to help students stabilize, assess clinical issues and needs, and treat presenting issues while developing an appropriate longer-term treatment plan. Kirsten incorporates principles of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocesssing Therapy (EMDR) to support students with issues related to emotional dysregulation, trauma, and emerging personality disorders. Most of Kirsten’s childhood was spent in Maryland, but she also was privileged to spend five years overseas in England and Germany. Still living in Utah, Kirsten finds inspiration observing the landscape, running whitewater rivers, climbing sandstone cracks, mountain biking, trail running, skiing, playing guitar and piano, and spending quality time with her husband, children, dogs, and cats. Kirsten is humbled daily by her personal experiences as a mother, stepmother, and partner, and she believes her clinical work is significantly deeper as a result.
Norman Elizondo is the Family Wellness Counselor at Open Sky. Norman's journey into the wilderness field began when his dying mother encouraged him to leave his finance career and "do something that would really help people." Norman shares his extraordinary journey from being an immigrant from the Philippines to growing up in the Chicago area to working in finance to leaving that to be a field guide at Aspen Achievement Academy. He would leave Aspen and become part of the founding team of Open Sky in 2006. From the Open Sky Website: Norman earned his BS in Business Management from the University of Illinois at Chicago and began his professional career in investment analysis. Following the death of his mother, he considered her parting advice about doing work that really helps people and began his career in wilderness therapy as a field instructor at Aspen Achievement Academy. As an immigrant from the Philippines, becoming educated and assimilating into American society has driven Norman to work hard, adapt, and feel a tremendous sense of gratitude for being a U.S. citizen. As such he has enjoyed tremendous opportunity; one of the largest and most meaningful was to help found Open Sky. Norman served as the first field guide for Open Sky, receiving the first student in May of 2006. Demonstrating both a command of wilderness skills and an aptitude for therapeutic skills, he moved quickly to being a senior field instructor and then a trainer for field instructors. The focus on family systems and parallel process with parents has been an inspiration and driving force in Norman’s time with Open Sky. He helped create the programming for the Wellness Weekends and has facilitated these weekend intensives since the very first one in 2006. He takes a special pride and pleasure in helping parents understand their child’s work at Open Sky and developing the same basic skill sets of emotional regulation, assertive communication, and effective boundary holding that are so crucial in parenting. In addition to the Wellness Weekends, he facilitates the parent support calls, graduations, meditation instruction, and field guide training. Meditation has been a cornerstone of Norman’s life. His years of practice deeply influence his ability to work with people in crisis and to train others how to develop their confidence and emotional resilience to work with challenging populations. With prior study and practice in the Southeast Asian Theravada tradition beginning in 1995, Norman has been studying and training as meditation instructor in the Tibetan tradition since 2001. He is a certified meditation teacher with the Dharma Ocean Foundation. As part of his commitment and ongoing training in meditation, Norman spends 4-6 weeks each year in retreat along with his daily practice. With most of his vacation time spent in retreat, he finds it important to make time in his daily life for exercise, playing music—DJing, singing, and drumming—and getting into the outdoors just for fun.
In this episode of SKYlights, the Open Sky Wilderness Therapy podcast, Program Director Danny Frazer discusses Open Sky’s winter course area in Utah. He describes what the winter climate is like, explains how our base camp infrastructure enhances the student and family experience, and talks about the training our field staff receive prior to and throughout the winter season. Danny details the winter gear our students receive—including insulated boots, long underwear and down jackets—and how students’ diets are modified to account for colder weather. He also explains the physical, mental and psychological benefits inherent to a wilderness therapy experience during the winter. GUEST PROFILE: Director Danny Frazer, BBA Danny graduated cum laude from Texas A&M University with a BBA in Management and Human Resources. He took his first wilderness therapy job as an intern while in college in 1996, working for a small, family-run wilderness program. This experience inspired him to pursue work in the field of wilderness therapy after graduating. In 1998, he began working as field guide for Aspen Achievement Academy, eventually becoming Field Director. For six consecutive summers, while guiding at Aspen, he worked for the Montana program of the Voyageur Outward Bound School, where he served as an instructor, course director, trainer, and logistics manager. In that early 8-year period, he accumulated over 700 field days working directly with adolescents and young adults. Since Open Sky’s inception, Danny has served in multiple leadership roles, starting as the field and operations director and then as the first marketing and business development director. He eventually landed in admissions, where he served as the director. He brings a vast history of working in the field with special emphasis on risk management, safety, wilderness programming, and personnel development to Open Sky’s leadership team. In addition, he chairs the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Council, the field’s leading organization representing over 20 wilderness programs throughout North America. TOPICS COVERED: Wilderness Therapy, coping skills, emotional and spiritual growth, self-confidence, emotional support, healing, young adults, recovery support, empowerment, destructive relationships, substance use, personal trauma, family dynamics, oppositional defiance, adoption/attachment issues, treatment resistance, navigating non-traditional and complex family systems, substance abuse, substance addiction, depression, anxiety, winter wilderness backpacking, winter backpacking safety
Phil Bryan is a clinical assistant at Evoke Entrada. Phil shares his story of working as a field guide for almost 20 years in various programs, including Aspen Achievement Academy, Summit Achievement, Outward Bound Voyager, Elements Wilderness Therapy, and Outback. Phil shares his experiences of being on the "Brat Camp" television series and why he decided to get a dual master's degree at the University of New Hampshire in Social Work and Adventure Therapy after working in the field for over 20 years.
Guy Dumas is a coach of graduates of wilderness programs (guydumas.com). Guy joined the wilderness therapy field in 1996 direct from the Army where he was a graduate of West Point and the Army’s Ranger School. He began working at Aspen Achievement Academy and found a new mission. Over 1000 days in the field. Over 500 days carrying a survival pack. Over 10,000 hours of practice. He shares stories from his early days in wilderness and how being a field guide "helped train me to be a good parent."
Emily Fernandes is co-founder and executive director at Open Sky Wilderness Therapy. Emily grew up in Vermont and went to college in Maine. Emily started working in the field in 1995 at The Wilderness School in Connecticut and went onto work at Aspen Achievement Academy in Utah. She co-founded Open Sky Wilderness in 2005 with Aaron Fernandes who would later become her husband. She shares her stories of being a field guide, clinician, clinical director and co-founder of a wilderness therapy program. She shares her experiences of doing over 1000 field days as a field guide as well as being on the television show, "Brat Camp."
Robert Trout is the founder and director of The Experiential Healing Institute which is an organization that provides family support before, during and after treatment when a family member is in a wilderness therapy program. Robert was a student in a wilderness program as a teen and went onto work as a clinician in wilderness therapy programs in different programs. Robert's journey into the field began after a family tragedy occurred and he was sent to a wilderness therapy program to address the issues. He went to the program thinking it was a summer camp and upon returning home informed his mother, "it saved my life." He went onto work in the field for over a seventeen years. Robert has worked at over eight different wilderness therapy programs including Aspen Achievement Academy, Pacific Quest, New Visions Wilderness, and Open Sky Wilderness
Jesse Quam, educational consultant and clinical social worker, started working in the wilderness therapy field after landing a job at Aspen Achievement Academy as a field instructor in 1996. Jesse shares stories about his upbringing in which his father was a pastor and the family traveled all over the country providing services to those in need which influenced Jesse to start a life of service. Jesse describes how he worked at Aspen for seven years and eventually became a field director and would meet his future wife, Grace, who also worked as a field instructor. They would both leave Aspen to pursue graduate degrees and in 2005 Jesse would become a clinician for SUWs of the Carolina's and then clinical director. He would leave SUWs in 2015 to become an educational consultant with John Huie and Associates located in Black Mountain, North Carolina. Jesse talks about how having worked in a wilderness therapy program helps him to be a better educational consultant.
Will interviews Gil Hallows and Derek Daley who co-founded Legacy Outdoor Adventures after working many years in the wilderness therapy field. Gil had been executive director of Aspen Achievement Academy from 1996 until it closed in 2011. He tells his story of the day that he was told Aspen Achievement Academy was going to be closed by the company and how he responded by starting Legacy Outdoor Adventures. Derek shares his story on how he worked at numerous wilderness therapy programs in Utah and Colorado and ended up joining with Gil to start Legacy.
Will talks with Lynn Smith, Co-Founder and Director of Family Services of Elements Wilderness Program. Lynn shares his journey from growing up in California to joining Aspen Achievement Academy in 1994 to co-founding Elements Wilderness in 2008.
Will interviews Krissy Pozatek, author of the book “The Parallel Process," about her journey from growing up in New England to working as a field guide at Aspen Achievement Academy in Utah. Krissy recounts going back to school and getting her MSW and returning as a clinician at Second Nature. She would leave that position and return to the New England to write “The Parallel Process” a book that she was inspired to write after years in the field. “The Parallel Process” is used by many wilderness therapy programs to as a curriculum for parents.
Lynn Thomas, LCSW is Eagala’s founder and CEO. Under her leadership, Eagala advanced the first professionalized standards for equine-assisted psychotherapy, developing Eagala’s certification program into the industry’s global standard. Her efforts developing the Eagala Model, while spearheading operations both domestically and abroad, have augmented Eagala’s global presence. Lynn Thomas received her Master’s of Social Work from the University of Utah and has over 16 years’ experience working with adolescents, families, individuals, and groups in various settings including youth corrections, wilderness and ranch programs, private practice, and mental health agencies. Lynn served as Executive Director for the Aspen Achievement Academy, a wilderness therapy program.