A New and Ancient Story: The Podcast

Swaady Martin is the daughter of a militant Black Panther who fled to Africa. She grew up in the Ivory Coast and ended up pursuing an elite education and corporate career, yet remains at heart and in spirit a revolutionary. We covered many topics: her background, colonialism, the Covid narrative and attitudes about it in West and South Africa, and the spiritual crisis of the developed world. Bio: Swaady Martin is an internationally recognized African leader. Spirituality and African identity are at the heart of all Swaady's many and varied roles. Her academic background includes London School of Economics (LSE) and Harvard Divinity School. She is also an Archbishop Desmond Tutu Leadership Fellow. A former Corporate Executive at General Electric (GE), Swaady is the founder of Yswara African Tea, Tounché Global Consciousness Summit & Events and LovingKindness Boma (through which she publishes mindful, multicultural picture books for children). She sits on several boards, including the African Leadership Institute(Afli). More about Swaady Martin, please visit https://www.swaady.com/

Playwright, satirist, and political commentator CJ Hopkins, creator of the website Consent Factory, joins me for a conversation on totalitarianism, safety, and the ideology of control. We go a little beyond his political writings on these topics to talk about the inner life of a dissident. Another major topic is the phenomenon of the cult, as a lens through which to understand our historical moment. CJ Hopkins' writings can be found on Substack https://cjhopkins.substack.com/ and the Consent Factory https://consentfactory.org/.

Nathan Riley is a medical doctor trained in OB/GYN and palliative care. In this episode, birth and death, we talk about the role of medicine in society, what is has been and could be, its beauty and limitations, working in the system and outside the system. Be sure to listen to the last 15 minutes especially, where Nathan shares a story that brought tears to my eyes and is still working me from the inside. More about Nathan Riley and his work, please visit: https://www.belovedholistics.com/

People call Daniel Raphael a "wizard," for reasons that may become apparent in this interview. He weaves an inspiring life story with his work with the body, subtle energies, and spiritual teachings. We touch on topics of perception and reality, self-forgiveness, and the limitations of the modern view of the real. More about Daniel, please visit: www.danielraphael.org

Anna Breytenbach is one of the world's best known interspecies communicators, subject of the film The Animal Communicator ( https://youtu.be/gvwHHMEDdT0). In this conversation we touch on a couple of her stories before zooming out larger themes such as: the living planet and humanity's role on it, the relationship between humans and the rest of life, and how to access the kind of abilities Anna has developed. About Anna: Anna Breytenbach is a professional interspecies communicator practicing for 20 years on several continents and featured in the documentary "The Animal Communicator". Native to South Africa, she holds a degree in Psychology and studied telepathic animal communication with the Assisi Institute in California as well as tracking and mentoring at the Wilderness Awareness School in Seattle. As an experienced master facilitator she focuses on mentoring in a practical manner that reminds us humans of the ways of indigenous nature awareness. Her consultation work is exclusively with wildlife and peaceful interventions globally via remote work. This includes predator research, wilderness protection, anti-poaching assistance, biodynamic and reforestation initiatives, wildlife management and rehabilitation and numerous public appearances as an inspirational speaker. Anna's communication and conservation work guides people to deepen their connection with all species in an honouring manner. She's inspired by being a voice for wild beings and natural environments. www.animalspirit.org www.youtube.com/c/AnimalSpirit

Here I speak with a woman who, in her younger days, put 110% of her time and life energy into a cause, in this case, Palestinian rights (Devorah is Jewish). Her story will resonate with many current and former activists, as it has resonated with me. Today she is a regenerative urban homesteader. Does that mean she has given up on changing the world? Or is there a deep level of activism where being a healing presence is not always about struggle? The conversation also engages my own burnout and fatigue... it gets a bit personal. Charles Eisenstein --- About Devorah Brous: Dev Brous (she/her) is a regenerative consultant at the nexus of urban gardening and burnout recovery. An urban homesteader and a frontline community organizer -- she designs, writes, and gardens with individuals and institutions to design regenerative practices for soul care, community care, and earth care. Her website: www.fromsoil2soul.com

British bass guitarist Yolanda Charles carries some powerful stories about trust, luck, mentorship, motherhood, and music. She shares some of them in our far-reaching conversation on these and other topics. Why does luck sometimes happen in life? Are some people born lucky? Do we make our own luck? What choices and conditions invite it in? This conversation gave me insight into these questions, and I hope it will for you as well. About Yolanda Charles: Yolanda Charles is a touring musician and mother of three, who has played and toured with Squeeze, Hans Zimmer, Robbie Williams, Mick Jagger, and others. You can support her on Patreon and find her work on Youtube, Soundcloud, and her website. MUSIC: https://soundcloud.com/yoyobasscharles WEBSITE: https://g4dz.com/ YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/c/YoBassCharles/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/yolandacharlesmusic

Galina Angaraova is an indigenous rights activists and the Executive Director of the nonprofit Cultural Survival. Her stories from her native indigenous village in Siberia illuminate vividly and poignantly the topics we visit, such as gift culture in indigenous societies, the tragedy of "development," the power of ceremony, healing trauma, and the nature of true wealth. What she describes in Siberia -- the damage and the healing -- applies powerfully to our modern condition. Articles on philanthropy -https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/reimagining-philanthropy-towards-relationships-trust-abundance-and-radical-love and https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/indigenizing-philanthropy-rematriating-distribution-wealth Website: www.cs.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/culturalsurvival/ @culturalsurvival Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/culturalsurvival/ @culturalsurvival Twitter: https://twitter.com/CSORG @CSORG

Welcome to this moving conversation with prison activist and filmmaker Fritzi Horstman, in which we discuss her powerful short film Step Inside the Circle. Please watch it first. We talk about prisons, trauma, healing, and the bankruptcy of the punishment paradigm. The underlying theme of the conversation is compassion, which, as Fritzi's work makes obvious, is the animating principle of any truly radical action. Fritzi Horstman bio: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQ-wertyFyx2n4q2WZBtiRgO3FqhEMKe-G2RC5DNBh8S3YiT8s3jdhehmfEmdEO4JhYQqXb83qfzna7/pub Compassion Prison Project website: https://compassionprisonproject.org/ Donate to Compassion Prison Project: https://compassionprisonproject.org/donate-to-cpp/ Wesley Purkey Blog Post (man on death row who was executed on July 16, 2020): https://compassionprisonproject.org/portrait-of-a-human-wesley-purkey/

This was a delightful conversation. We hadn't intended to talk about race, but I'm glad we did, because Mellody shared some unique, unorthodox insights worthy of considering in our troubled times. The conversation ranged into the territory of psychedelic therapy, mysticism, and principles of personal and collective transformation. Her riff on spiritual bypass near the end is not to be missed! Mellody Hayes is a physician-writer, speaker, and spiritual teacher and the Executive Director of Ceremony Health, a faith-based psychedelic healing center. She is graduate of Harvard College and UCSF Medical School and Anesthesiology Residency, John Kenneth Galbraith Scholar, and a Voices of Our Nation Alum. Links: Mellody Hayes: https://www.mellodyhayes.com/ Refuge with Last Black Man in San Francisco: https://adelaidemagazine.org/nf_mellody_hayes33.html

Dr. Edith Ubuntu Chan has an unusual background -- studied mathematics at Harvard, became a Doctor of Oriental Medicine... Actually, nothing I could say about her can do justice to the stories she carries: about the soul's journey, the nature of life and death, illness and healing, and the vastness of human potential. I was on her podcast a couple months ago, and she has graciously returned the favor here. Also check out her new book, Super Wellness via http://www.superwellness.com/ Another podcast of Dr. Chan and Charles is available via http://www.dredithubuntu.com/thedreshow/our-great-initiation-into-the-more-beautiful-world-w-charles-eisenstein

Here I talk with Zach Bush, MD, a doctor with a background in endocrinology who "went holistic" and turned toward gut/brain health, the microbiome, and soil science. Our conversation covered a lot of ground: evolution, the importance of biological diversity for personal, social, and ecological health, the inventive fecundity of life, the role of viruses in sharing genetic information, and more. I expect this conversation will help expand people's horizons in trying to understand health and sickness in the Covid era. Del Bigtree podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXI0UEmCsEw About Zach: https://zachbushmd.com/video/the-highwire/

This rich dialog treats the evolution of activism beyond us-versus-them thinking, with special reference to current events around race, the indigenous, and the Amazon rainforest. Alnoor Ladha’s work focuses on the intersection of political organizing, systems thinking and narrative work. He was the co-founder and Executive Director of The Rules (TR), a global network of activists, organizers, designers, coders, researchers, writers and others focused on changing the rules that create inequality, poverty and climate change. Currently, he is active with Cura Da Terra (#CuraDaTerra), a campaign of and for the indigenous of the Amazon in their role as healers of the earth. Alnoor comes from a Sufi lineage and explores/writes about the intersection between politics and spirituality in times of crisis. The Rules: https://therules.org/

Vivian Dittmar is a teacher, speaker, and writer, author of the book The Power of Feelings. In this conversation we talk about the collective global field of uncertainty, the dynamics of birth and death, and the opportunity that Covid offers to befriend fear and follow its evolutionary power. Here is a guided meditation she offers on accessing the power of fear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eqOXGUgBWY She also shares with the audience a chapter on the power of fear from her book: https://viviandittmar.net/wp-content/uploads/The-Power-of-Fear.pdf Vivian's book, The Power of Feelings is here: https://viviandittmar.net/en/books/the-power-of-feelings/ Her upcoming book, The Inner GPS is here: https://viviandittmar.net/en/books/your-inner-gps/

Rishi Kumar(https://farmerrishi.com), a former software engineer, is a gardening evangelist who uses gardening for personal, social, and ecological healing. We talk a lot about regeneration: how it is not just a set of techniques, but an orientation, a way of seeing, and a way of relating to the earth. We humans don't have to be outsiders to nature; we too are an organ of Gaia and can join the gift circle of life. I hope our conversation gives whomever listens a little extra encouragement to begin or to deepen their gardening, and to look at the nonprofit Rishi works with, Kiss the Ground (https://kisstheground.com).

Sayer Ji is a prominent holistic health researcher and the founder of one of the largest alternative health websites, greenmedinfo.com. We talk first and foremost about the coronavirus and the multiple fear narratives surrounding it, then venture into some other controversial topics: body ecology and the "virome," vaccines, internet censorship, science and its limitations, biological transmutation of elements, water bubble cavitation, and my favorite topic of late, ideological polarization and peace. Link to his new book, Regenerate: Unlocking Your Body's Radical Resilience through the New Biology:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/599585/regenerate-by-sayer-ji/  Other resource site: https://regenerateproject.com/

Luz Gonçalves Brito is a Brazilian anthropologist who brings academics and spirituality together in an exquisite way. Our conversation was like a meditation, touching on the inseparability of the spiritual from the ecological and political. For example: ecology, like spirituality, is ultimately a search for connection. Luz's research is not only scholarly -- you may feel chills as I did upon hearing her sing the song given to her by a river.

Julie Esterly is active in the death care movement, part of the reclamation of death as a culturally recognized part of life. We speak of our culture's death rituals, the necessity of realizing death in order to fully realize life, and the connection between the denial of death and the denial of life, which takes specific form in collective ecocide. Is this a depressing topic? No. See if you come a little more alive through this conversation. More about Julie Esterly at esterly.com and her work at naturaldeathcareinitiative.org

Julie Esterly is active in the death care movement, part of the reclamation of death as a culturally recognized part of life. We speak of our culture's death rituals, the necessity of realizing death in order to fully realize life, and the connection between the denial of death and the denial of life, which takes specific form in collective ecocide. Is this a depressing topic? No. See if you come a little more alive through this conversation. More about Julie Esterly at esterly.com and her work at naturaldeathcareinitiative.org

Part Two of my conversation with Gigi Coyle explores the process of transforming pain and turmoil that is intensely reflecting back to us from the world (natural disasters, forest fires, potlics, etc..). How do we find the gifts hidden in these situations? How do we not go crazy trying not to go crazy? This is Part Two of a two-part conversation. You can find Part One at: https://charleseisenstein.org/podcasts/new-and-ancient-story-podcast/gigi-coyle-what-is-mine-to-do-e42/ More about Gigi's work: http://schooloflostborders.org/content/virginia-gigi-coyle

What is mine to do? This is the mantra of Gigi Coyle, a revered veteran of social, political, and spiritual movements going back to the 1970s. Gigi was instrumental in the founding of the Ojai Foundation, Youth Passageways, Beyond Boundaries, and other groups. She is a true elder, someone whose experiences, successes, and especially failures give birth to wisdom in the soil of her humility. I hope listeners benefit as much from this conversation as I did. This is Part One of a two-part conversation. You can find Part Two at: https://charleseisenstein.org/podcasts/new-and-ancient-story-podcast/gigi-coyle-what-is-mine-to-do-e42/ More about Gigi's work: http://schooloflostborders.org/content/virginia-gigi-coyle

This conversation with Zack Geist addresses the phenomenon of debt, both from a theoretical standpoint and in very practical terms (at least for US listeners). Zack operates a business that liberates people from student loans and other debt. We discuss the morality of debt, debt peonage, and the crushing realities of debt in America. This is a conversation between a philosopher (me) and someone who works with real people deep inside the system. To learn more about Zack Geist's work, please visit https://learn.studentloantutor.com/magic/

In this conversation, filmmaker Robin McKenna and I discuss her new film, GIFT, which is inspired by Lewis Hyde's classic book, The Gift. I consider Hyde to be an elder of an intellectual/spiritual lineage that has also informed a lot of my work, in particular the book Sacred Economics and the course, Living in the Gift. Here we travel through many dimensions of the gift universe as well as the process, content, and impact of this film, which opens in theaters on Oct. 11. From the film description, "GIFT is a tribute to something that can’t be measured or counted, bought or sold. Exploring the parallels between artists’ work and a gift economy, it’s a reflection on the creative process, the reasons we labour in service of our gifts." GIFT Trailer: https://vimeo.com/283716447 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GIFTdocumentary/ Information on upcoming screenings: http://www.giftitforwardproject.com/the-film/screenings/ Also, check out my book Sacred Economics http://charleseisenstein.org/books/sacred-economics/ and the course, Living in the Gift https://charleseisenstein.org/courses/living-in-the-gift/ to explore this subject in depth.

I describe Kelly Brogan as a “renegade psychiatrist” – someone who abandoned a prestigious career “in the system” to become a critic of pharmaceutical psychiatry and an advocate for holistic therapy. She is also a dear friend and ally whom I appreciate for her courage, creativity, and intellect. We covered a lot of ground in this conversation, medical, philosophical, and spiritual. Some of the main themes were: ending the war on pain, reclaiming personal sovereignty in physical and mental health, the power of “I don’t know,” and the passage to authentic personal and cultural adulthood. We also discuss her powerful new book, Own Your Self (https://amzn.to/32XjBpF).

This conversation with my good friend Cynthia Jurs was originally recorded for my online course, Living in the Gift. It was a meditative, engaging experience with synchronicities that showed up to support the flow of our stories and connection with one another. Truly, it was a lived experience of gift just to be in her presence and allow meaning to unfold, as I hope you will also sense in listening to this slow, deep, and joyful conversation on ideas that are central to synchronicity and sacrifice. Our conversation weaves together various themes explored in Living in the Gift. To learn more, go here: charleseisenstein.org/gift

Lynne Twist is the author of The Soul of Money and co-founder of the Pachamama Alliance. This conversation weaves together various themes explored in my online course, Living in the Gift: https://charleseisenstein.org/gift

Helena Norberg-Hodge is a revered elder in the movement seeking alternatives to the present course of economic globalism and cultural homogenization. Her film on Ladakh, Ancient Futures, was a major influence on my work. Here we talk about what is drawing so many people back to the local, back to the land, back to place, and back to a culture of belonging.

Brian Swimme is a mathematical cosmologist and philosopher. We went really deep in this conversation: the limits of human knowledge, cosmic evolution, science as a road to the sacred, and other speculations. I loved this fun, humorous, and mind-stretching conversation, and had the feeling that together we reached a place that neither could have reached alone.

Daniel Schmactenberger is a brilliant and innovative social philosopher and founding member of the Consilience Project. Here he outlines some of the foundations of his worldview as we discuss exponential tech, self-terminating social and technological processes, the future of humanity, the nature of the present crisis, and the necessity of a transition to non-rivalrous systems.

Brock Dolman is the founder of Occidental Arts & Ecology in Northern California, one of the first permaculture education centers in North America. In this conversation Brock displays a tiny fraction of his savant-level knowledge of ecology, water, soil, trees, and how to engage in a healing relationship to our environment. His unorthodox insights, especially relevant in a time of forest fires and extreme weather events, embed scientific reasoning within an ecospiritual aesthetic.

Philip Munyasia is the founder of Otepic, a permaculture/ ecovillage project in Kenya that brings youth from the slums to the land for social and ecological healing. You will Philip's courage, vision, and insight as they shine through in this conversation. He has been for me a key  informant to the question I carry: "What will it take to heal?" You can make donations to Otepic and send out a powerful ROI  (ripple of impact).

Orland Bishop is in my eyes a treasure on this earth. In this conversation we talk about the cosmological and geological dimensions of the current evolution of culture and consciousness, along with other topics. Please do avail yourself of the information carried by Orland's words and -- even more -- by his voice.

Judith Schwartz is the author of several books, most recently "Water in Plain Sight." She is a leading advocate of what is coming to be known as "rain for climate" -- a shift in emphasis toward water as the most important substance in understanding and addressing climate change. We talk about water, soil, and plants, trees and cows, dogmatism, veganism and meat, and other topics.

This conversation explores the contentious subject of the mental health system, through the story of patient advocate Laura Delano. Her journey into being institutionalized and recovering sovereignty over her mind and body has larger significance in our society. Her organization, Inner Compass Initiative, supports those who want to wean themselves off medication -- a formidable task not to be taken lightly.

Part 2 of Charles' conversation with Orland Bishop.

Charles Eisenstein in conversation with Orland Bishop

Eivind Skjellum is the creator of Reclaim your Inner Throne, a training program for men. In this conversation we talk about masculine and feminine archetypes, leadership, elderhood, and stories of transformation in this time when the old story of what a man is and how to be one are dissolving.

Severine von Tscharner Fleming is a kind of farming savant and a super-dynamic agent of the revolution in agriculture reuniting us with soil, water, and life. She is the founder of the Agrarian Trust, which connects young farmers with land they otherwise couldn't afford. We talked about the evolution of farming, its planetary healing potential, issues of ownership and the commons, and how to bridge our ideals and best practices to present-day economic realities.

This conversation with the amazing Gigi Coyle was recorded with a small live audience on a houseboat, where Gigi was recovering from knee surgery. Gigi is a source of valuable wisdom for activists and change agents today; a veteran of 1970's feminist and environmental movements, she has turned to deeper levels of activism. We connected on topics of ritual, surrender to a path, the importance of water, community, ambivalence and paradox, living our songlines, myth as a conveyor of truth, and more. I wish more people would have the chance to learn from Gigi, someone who is, in my eyes, a true elder.

In this episode, Charles talks with author, podcaster, and life-long seeker Joanna Harcourt-Smith.

This is a conversation with the political thinker and activist Helena Norberg-Hodge. She had a huge radicalizing influence on my political thinking through her film Ancient Futures. By "radical" I don't mean the usual leftist politics. Helena is a tireless advocate for re-localization, the reclaiming of the commons, and the importance of direct participation in community. She is deeply insightful in linking these to global issues. Having spent decades in Ladakh, she is also one of the first to integrate traditional and indigenous world-views into a coherent critique of techno-industrial society, finance, and politics. Her work has been a great source of nourishment to me in unfolding a vision of a more beautiful world. I hope you enjoy this conversation we recorded in the fall of 2016 in England.

Satish Kumar is, in the truest sense of the word, an elder in the peace and ecology movement. To me personally, he is one of those deep allies who confirms that the most radical ideas I work with are not in fact crazy. It was my honor to weave this tapestry of conversation with him. We spoke about gift culture and the natural order; value, values, and the standardization of everything; the perils of over-reliance on metrics; speaking to power and preaching to the converted; gratitude and contentment, and much more.

Martin Shaw is a mythologist and storyteller from the area of Devon, England. He and I share a deep appreciation for the way myth and story shape the world. Martin starts our conversation with a story about Fox Woman Dreaming that is still with me months later, working inside me. We go on to talk about exile, the nature of magic, stories and relationship, decolonizing the imagination, and lots more. It was a really heady and passionate conversation.

This podcast is a public conversation between me and Orland Bishop, recorded in Santos, Brazil. Even though the audio quality isn't perfect, I want to release this recording anyway in hopes of transmitting to you some of what Orland has transmitted to me. He draws from a deep pool of wisdom that is carried not only by his words, but by the voice beneath them. I don't use phrases like "deep pool of wisdom" very often, and in this case it is not a cliche. We talk about gift and relationship; the power of word, story, and intention; money and the financial system, and other topics. You might sometimes find Orland hard to understand. That's OK. Just let the words reverberate in you.

Kelly Brogan is a psychiatrist who made a radical break with pharma-centered orthodoxy to pursue holistic approaches to mental health, with extraordinary results. We recorded a conversation that started with psychiatric drugs and visited many perennial topics: working inside versus outside the system; the importance of community, the blunting of consciousness in our society and the power of grief to restore it; and the recovery of our power as agents of planetary change. I hope you enjoy this deep and playful conversation as much as I did. Note: Here is the link to Kelly's online program for anyone who is intrigued by what Kelly shares about it in this conversation. http://kellybroganmd.com/vitalmind/

This podcast is a recording of a second conversation between me and Rupert Sheldrake, one of my favorite renegade scientists and the number one target of the defenders of scientific orthodoxy. He hardly needs any introduction, but I'll say he is prolific author and researcher with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry from Cambridge University. I see him as an elder or a pioneer in the liberating of science from its metaphysical dogmas of reductionism and mechanistic materialism, and a true practitioner of the Scientific Method in its original humble spirit. I hope you'll enjoy the intellect and refinement of this man as much as I did.

St.JamesTalk by Charles Eisenstein

The Fertile Ground of Bewilderment was the title of a speech I gave at St. James Church in London. I'm sharing it with you all because it was such a high-energy event and I ventured into territory I haven't brought into public speaking before.

This interview with the filmmaker Marietta Schürholz is on ritual -- a topic about which I've thought a lot and written very little. We tend to think rituals are vestiges of an earlier, more superstitious time, or perhaps elements of indigenous cultures that we need to learn from. We think we live in a society bereft of meaningful rituals. But in fact, we are immersed in rituals that are invisible to us. Medicine, law, and even technology can be understood as a highly elaborated system of ritual, whose legitimacy and efficacy are based on an underlying mythology that tells us what is real and how the world works. As we transition into a new mythology, our old rituals become unsatisfying, and impotent to address the crises of our time. This podcast episode originated as an interview for Marietta's film, Reinventing Rituals. You can watch the trailer at www.reinventing-rituals.de. The depth of understanding embodied in her questions, and her wide open heart and vulnerable listening to my responses, makes me think this will be an extraordinary film. If you resonate with our conversation, you might consider donating to her crowdfunding campaign too.

This conversation I recorded with Rex Brangwyn was originally part of my online program "Masculinity: A New Story." The outpouring of gratitude, insight, and stories it provoked from participants has prompted me to share it more widely. You may not agree with everything he says, but he is a sincere explorer who radiates love, compassion, and honesty. If you'd like to access the entire Masculinity: A New Story series, you can do that here: https://newandancientstory.net/learning-journeys/masculinity-a-new-story/

This conversation with the Norwegian men's coach and teacher Eivind Skjellum is a deep and at times raw introduction to an extraordinary transformational map Eivind has created (or, more accurately, that he has discovered). Created for men, I think it has impact on anyone who encounters it. The places he describes carry a profound psychic resonance: the City of Slumber, the Point of No Return, the Meeting with the Mapmaker of the East, the Abyss, the Demon's Feast, the Beauty Path, the Encounter with the Black Knight, and many more. This conversation is part of my online learning journey, Masculinity: A New Story. If you'd like to access the entire series, you can do that here: https://newandancientstory.net/learning-journeys/masculinity-a-new-story/.