Podcast appearances and mentions of Amy M Gardner

Business attorney Katie Rinkus welcomes Amy M. Gardner to the mic to discuss common ways they see conflict show up in the workplace. Amy is a certified Career and Career Transitions Coach and Team Development and Leadership Consultant and the co-owner of Apochromatik, which offers team and leadership development programs to help organizations resolve conflict and reach their goals.   One of the primary causes of conflict in the workplace is a poor culture: there is a lack of vulnerability-based trust that leads people to feel undervalued and unable to speak up or to ask for help. Conflict is also commonly seen in the hiring and onboarding process. Sometimes decisions to hire are rushed, job duties are not what were originally promised, and communication is simply unclear.   Because culture issues, lack of communication, and conflict can, as Amy says, “cost money and happiness,” it's important for organizations to address these issues. Ongoing training—not just for management but for entire teams—can help things run more smoothly no matter the conflict flashpoint, especially when a team is trained on navigating difficult conversations.   Join Katie and Amy as they unpack conflict at work and how to best respond to it so that we all can make work better for each other.   Amy M. Gardner Amy M. Gardner works with law firms and corporations to reengage teams and help them thrive by utilizing Apochromatik's proprietary Team Driven Leadership approach to build leadership skills, improve relationships, strengthen emotional intelligence, have difficult conversations, and more. She also works with lawyers to advance or transition in their careers.   Her work with teams and lawyers draws on her unique experience as a former Big Law associate, partner at a mid-size Chicago firm, and dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School.  She received her MA in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University, JD from the University of Chicago, and BA from Luther College, as well as certifications in team and leadership coaching, 1:1 coaching, and various assessments. Her expertise has been featured in media including numerous podcasts, ABA publications, Corporette, Glassdoor, Health, Monster, NBC, and Women's Running magazine.  Connect with Amy at amy@apochromatik.com.     Stay Connected & Learn More:   Amy M. Gardner on LinkedIn   Katie Rinkus   Apochromatik   Team Driven Leadership   The Prinz Law Firm

Certain businesses tend to get overlooked when it comes to receiving any guidance, whether in the form of coaching, consulting, leadership training, etc. Amy M. Gardner created Apochromatik, her consulting brand, around eliminating distractions and focusing teams in the right direction. Joel Volk of Hot Dog Business Growth learns about her unique take on consulting and how it positively impacts a variety of teams. ----------------- GUEST: Amy M. Gardner | www.Apochromatik.com ----------------- We'd like to thank our sponsors: Hot Dog Business Growth, JorgensenHR and Fit4TheCause

In this episode of On Record PR, Gina Rubel goes on record with Amy M. Gardner, a Certified Career and Career Transitions Coach and Team Development and Leadership Consultant with Apochromatik, to discuss building and engaging teams. Learn More Amy M. Gardner works with law firms and other employers to reengage teams and help them thrive by improving relationships, strengthening emotional intelligence, building leadership skills, developing resilience, having difficult conversations, and more. Amy also works with lawyers one-on-one and in small group Future in Focus Attorney Masterminds to advance in their roles or transition to a new one. She regularly delivers trainings on subjects including time and stress management, managing conflict, building trust, goal achievement, emotional intelligence, and career topics. Amy is a former Big Law associate, partner at a mid-size Chicago firm, and dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School. She holds a master's degree from Northwestern University, JD from the University of Chicago, and BA from Luther College. She holds certifications in team and leadership coaching, 1:1 coaching, and assessment certifications including the EQi-2.0. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including numerous podcasts, ABA publications, Bustle, Corporette, Glassdoor, Health, Law360, Monster, NBC, and Women's Running magazine. Amy's service to the legal profession includes serving on the Illinois Committee on Character and Fitness and the Governance Committee for the Institute for Well-Being in Law.

Hear how when teams work together, everybody succeeds You may have not paid much attention to the cultures inside law firms. Law firms are really no different than other firms. Some have strong cultures that seem to work smoothly. Others need a hand. One hand they often reach for is Amy Gardner, our interviewee in today's podcast. Amy is charming. A smart woman who has worked in law firms and now with them to help them reimagine their organizations and create teams that work better together than alone. In our conversation, you will hear ideas that are as relevant to your company or non-profit as they are to Amy's clients. As we all try to navigate our new work culture, her story is well worth a listen.   Watch and listen to our conversation here It doesn't matter what type of company you have today—you need strong collaborative teams that are looking to help each other succeed No longer can we all be competing for position, power and promotions. Today, we have to find ways to talk to each other, build relationships, and know whom to trust and count on. That is what Amy does so well. Connect with her on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and her website Apochromatik, or email her at amy@apochromatik.com. Want to learn how to form better teams that work great together? Start here. Blog: How Storytelling Can Transform Your Culture And Energize Your Team Blog: How To Help Your Team Stop Mourning The Old And Love The New Podcast: Kathy D'Agostino—Can A Great Performance Coach Build Your Team And You? Additional resources for you My award-winning second book: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business My award-winning first book: On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Simon Associates Management Consultants    Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink with Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. And as you know, I'm your host and your guide. And my job is to get you off the brink. And I can't do that any better than by bringing wonderful people to you. Amy Gardner is one today who's going to tell you about some major things you should think about as we come out of a pandemic. But you know, this is not easy, and everybody's brains are fighting it. You don't quite know how to do it so you're making it up, not quite well. And I always believe in over-determining success. So if you can overthink what we're doing a little bit and begin to plan for it, and realize that not everyone's going to do it exactly the way you want. Then all of a sudden, you're going to find new ideas, turning into great new ways to work together. Amy comes out of Chicago with lots of offices there looking for people to come back into them. I don't know, it's lonely at home, but it's easier. I have a client with 70 employees, all of whom don't want to commute, all kinds of things going on. But let me tell you about Amy so she can help you see, feel and think in new ways. That's our job because if you can see something and you can feel it, you'll decide, I can do that too. So that's what we want to share today. Amy Gardner is a certified career development and career transitions coach. She'll tell you about that, and she's a team development and leadership consultant. The company she's with is Apochromatik. And she's going to say that better than I have. Her work draws on her unique experience as a Dean of Students at the University of Chicago Law School, which is pretty cool. And a successful career practicing law. At first, as a big law litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a midsize photographer, she received her BA from Luther College, her JD from the University of Chicago Law School and her MA in public policy from Northwestern University. Amy's got great credentials for you today. But the most interesting part is that she's working with people like you right now to help them see,  feel, and think in new ways. The times they are changing. Amy, thank you for joining me today.  Amy Gardner: Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to be here.   Andi Simon: It's such a pleasure to meet you. Please tell the audience who's Amy Gardner? What's your whole journey been like? And how does that bring us to where we are today?  Amy Gardner: Well, I grew up in Ames, Iowa and my first jobs were working in Wisconsin delis, where I learned a lot about leadership and team development by running, wait for it, Big Kahuna Café at Noah's Ark Waterpark. America's largest waterpark, land of the free and home of the wave. It was a fantastic experience, actually. So after I graduated from Luther, I worked in political campaigns in Iowa before going to law school. And as you said, I graduated from law school and went straight into a large law firm. I worked at Skadden's Chicago office for just about five and a half, not quite six years. And then from there, I went to a midsize firm. And when the opportunity arose to return to my law school as the Dean of Students, I really viewed it as an opportunity to better prepare students for the practice of law in ways that an excellent classroom education doesn't necessarily cover. And as part of doing that work, I kept talking to law firms that were saying, Wow, this is really great and nice things that you're doing. So I was talking to law firms to get them to subsidize the things I was doing. And the firm would say, We need this, we need this. And so finally I decided, okay, here's this opportunity. And so initially, our work was focused on legal employers, but now we work with lots of different industries. And my husband and I founded Apochromatik five years ago and we've been married for just over 20 years. And today, I get to work with smart people every day. I get to work with teams that want to be better. And I get to work with lawyers who want to love their careers more. So it's a pretty good gig.   Andi Simon: What a nice journey, what a nice balance. You know, learning comes from doing experientially as opposed from sitting in a classroom and hearing. And unless we've done it, we don't really know what it is. But these are very challenging times, I'm sure you're seeing. So tell us two things. One a little bit about what you do, how you do it, and a little bit about what you see going on in the markets today that can be helpful for others who are experiencing it. What do you do?  Amy Gardner: So about half my time is spent with our one-on-one and small group mastermind-to-attorney clients. And then the other half of my time is spent working with teams. It doesn't matter who I'm working with, the approach is always first to listen, to understand where people are coming from, and then to really collaborate with them to create solutions. And you know, when you're coaching an attorney on their career, you might be using a strictly coaching approach. But when it comes time to tell them what to do with their résumé, you're not coaching them, you're being very directive. And with a team, you're trying to understand the issues. The issues are often not what appears on the surface. And then you're working with the team members to improve the situation for everyone. And sometimes that involves one-on-one coaching with some leaders. Other times, it involves a series of group workshops, but it's fun, because you can see the results of your work. And because you never know. When Keith and I are doing a workshop together, I often comment that it's a lot like riding a bucking bronco, right? You know in your mind how it might go and you've seen it before, but it's always going to be a different experience. And at the end, the goal is really just for the team to achieve their goals.  Andi Simon: So as I'm listening, I'm thinking about my own leadership academy, I have several. And in the process, the word "team" comes up often. But folks, fascinatingly enough, they may have played on a soccer team, or lacrosse team or a football team, but they're all different teams. And I use the metaphor of sports because it resonates. But I have a hunch, you see the difficulties without a general manager or coach or a model for people to know what it is. What is the goal? Why are we doing this? And on the other hand, being an anthropologist, I tell them, You can't solo it, unless you have a group, call it a team, you can't get anywhere. Humans can't do it alone. Maybe a little but not really. How do you build the right kinds of teams?  Amy Gardner: Well, to start, I think one thing that occurred to me as you were talking is, I don't know if you know Michael Hyatt, but he's been really influential on our business and very helpful. And Michael often says, Vision leaks. What we often see is that we might talk with the leaders of a team and say, what are the team's goals? and they can recite them in their sleep. But the average team member may feel as though the only real goal is to bring in more revenue, cut costs, and bring in more money. And so you really have to start with, what is the vision, and some of that is, of course, going to be handed down. But other vision needs to come from the people on the team. And because you can do all the trust exercises and communication exercises in the world, but if people aren't working toward at least some common goals that are a little bit more motivating than helping someone else become wealthier, they're not really going to get anywhere.  Andi Simon: That's an interesting way to talk about purpose and mission.  Amy Gardner: I remember when I was practicing law, I had a client where I had to keep going to New York every three weeks for this particular case. And it was a great case. But I was sitting at LaGuardia all the time. And the client made a comment to me that maybe he should name a condo for me. And I said, What do you mean? And he said, Well, every time we get a disbursement from this fund, my wife and I buy another condo because we're sort of building a compound of properties down in Florida. And I was like, wait, I'm spending...of course I was being compensated well for this, right? but you're thinking, I spent how many hours on the tarmac at LaGuardia and you're telling me that that's what this is about? I mean, it just has to be more motivating than that, right? And different things are motivating to different people. But you have to understand the members of the team, why they get up in the morning and who they are and what they have to offer.  Andi Simon: Well, but I'm laughing because often we really aren't sure what our job is, or its purpose and meaning. There's a huge great resignation right now, a huge discussion about young people wanting purpose. They don't just want profits. And I'm not quite sure, we haven't figured out that the young people are just telling others what it is that people really want, which is to have a purpose in life beyond simply a job. And it isn't working for someone, it is working with them. And what does that actually mean? So you have a really big business here. Are there some illustrative cases where you can show like the before and after or some of the challenges that you're facing? Because, you know, people have to visualize, not envision it, but visualize it because that's how we decide with our eyes and your stories, very powerful stories to share.  Amy Gardner: So let's talk about a team that we worked with not too long ago where we were approached because the new leader had inherited a team that was doing great in many respects, but he discovered they'd never had any sort of team development, nothing formal, never had a retreat, nothing like that. And so initially, our charge was just to come in and do something so that the team understands it's a new day and the new leader really cares about this development. But everything's great. So as we start talking to people, we learn that in fact, there are a couple members of this, again, very high functioning team in a very well known company, who these two members hadn't spoken to in 10 years. And I mean, imagine if you are in a large company, and you are a senior leadership team and two members don't speak. It doesn't matter how great the numbers are, and how lovely the human beings are but, there's still that what is happening here. And there had been a recent situation where the communication was so siloed, that one person is sitting in a meeting, and overhears the engineering team talking about a new development and realizes or should have realized they better talk to the IP folks but doesn't connect them. Because it just doesn't occur. And none of these were disasters, right? It's kind of like, oh, yeah, they didn't let us know, now we got to scramble. Oh, yeah, those two don't talk. But whatever, it's their deal. But when you can get to the root causes, and when you can address those things that just brings in a new lightness. It just makes people happier logging out for those interminable zoom meetings, right? If it's people that you actually don't mind spending time with, and you understand where they're coming from, and it was great because at the end of the engagement, we were told it was a resounding success. And more than that, we also saw just how people were talking when we did an icebreaker.  The very first of four workshops, people had no engagement, like wondering, Why do we have to do this. And by the end, people are excited. On their own, people had come up with a schedule so everybody would have coffee with everybody else at least once a quarter to get to know each other better. All these sorts of things that we all know in our heads we should be doing, but you get so busy with all the meetings and all the things that you can check off your to-do list, that so often it's those personal relationships, and the developing the team and developing the leadership within the team that just gets set aside for the next quarter, right?   Andi Simon: Let's dig into this a little bit because we do a lot of cultural change work. Humans have only survived because of groups. It's a really interesting phenomenon, set people off on their own in the wilderness, and they don't quite know what to do. But you know, you put them in these cubicles, or these jobs, and they really don't know what to do either. They do what they do to keep their job and to feel they have some reason for being there. You went to LaGuardia and sat on the tarmac, you weren't quite sure the purpose or the meaning. But you did it, you made a nice income. And that seemed to be what the job was supposed to be. But now we're at a point where people are asking some profound questions, particularly as we're coming back from being remote. Particularly, Why are we together? And why is being remote so unhealthy for humans, because it is. The incidence of illness goes up, and that's not just COVID. People experience anger, loneliness that turns into all kinds of psychological and behavioral health issues. We're supposed to be critters, we're herd animals. We're supposed to hang out together, supposed to tell stories with each other. But the trend is now to begin to see this as valuable, not incidental. And now the question is, well, it's valuable, but I don't know how to do it. You don't know how to talk to each other. You don't know how to set up some time to have coffee together. It's like we're working with a bunch of children, as opposed to grownups. They need new habits to be formed. And habit building takes 30 days or plus or minus, you gotta keep doing it before it becomes ingrained. As you're watching the reemergence of people going back into the office, I've been dying to ask you, what do you see happening? Are some working well, some not? Where are there opportunities for others to benefit from what your insights are?  Amy Gardner: I think one of the things that you have to remember if you're asking people to come back to the office is that you can't ask them to come back to the office just to sit on zoom all day. And this is something that we're seeing again and again. Particularly for offices, where for good safety reasons, they only want a certain percentage of the people there on any given day, then the people who are in the office are often just in their office on zoom with people who aren't there. There has to be a reason to be back in the office. I mean, if you want me to get on the L or get on the subway or drive somewhere and pay for parking to go in there, there should be a reason, right? And especially as we've seen, so many people have moved farther away from their offices over the last two or three years to get out of inner city cores and move into suburbs and stuff where they have yards and things like that.  I have a client who she and her husband have a couple of little kids and they moved an hour and a half from downtown Chicago and now they both are expected to be coming back into downtown Chicago. And it's like, what does that do to your life? This is a choice they made but if all of a sudden they add a three hour commute, three hours of commuting each day, so there better be a reason to be in the office. And I think the employers who put out doughnuts or a box breakfast to welcome everybody back one day, and then think it's going to go back to the same way. This is a real opportunity to reset, and smart leaders are taking advantage of that opportunity to reconsider. Do we need to be here every day? Do we need to have more open work spaces? Do we need to have fewer open workspaces? Some people have learned that they can concentrate better without the chaos around them, right? Should we rethink what we were doing for backup childcare? If people's kids are suddenly out of school because of a COVID exposure, how do we want to support them? This is a real opportunity. I was talking to someone the other day, and we were both talking about what if employers think about it, and leaders think about it in terms of not going back, but how can we go forward from here. I think that reset, and that reframe can be really helpful and thinking through what kind of workplaces we want to have.  Andi Simon: Yes, well, I'll add to that, because I've been doing research on what does work mean and what is the workday. I coached a bunch of folks who during the COVID period early on were now at home, and they were trying to figure out what is work? They were really delighted to be able to take a morning meeting and get the wash done. Then take a noon collaboration with their colleagues or friends. Then they could work at eight or nine at night when the kids went to bed. And they were saying, what is work? When do we do work? There were profound questions about the transformation that was opening up opportunities, unfamiliar in the past, but really important ones about what is the meaning of work. Where do we do it? And then that wonderful little article that I saw of the gal who finished at one o'clock and said, Well, pay me to 5 o'clock because I have nothing else to do. And her question wasn't about her willingness to do more but what I had to do, I did it fast. Don't penalize me for being efficient. But how do you reward me? What does this mean, in terms of what I do? Now, this is different from being on a factory floor where the machines keep going. But so much of our societies are our knowledge workers. We're managing their minds and their time. Now, the question is, do we manage them? Are they managing us? Are they all gig economy folks? It's a real interesting time. What do you see? Amy Gardner: I think one of the complications of people working at different times throughout the day is the brain science tells us that you actually need more extended periods away from work for your brain to relax. And so if you decide, I'm going to work another segment from 6pm to 9pm, fine, but then your brain can only reset from 9pm until you start again. You don't have that extended time off. And particularly with weekends, we've seen that a lot, and it just leads to more burnout. But there's also the effect that if you are a leader who decides that works for you, great. But if you are then sending an email at eight o'clock at night, and not scheduling it to go out tomorrow morning, then you are sending messages to your team. And so what might work for you and be great for you, you have to think about how that's affecting other people. And we worked with a team where a number of changes had been made to accommodate parents who were trying to supervise homeschooling kids, which, thank goodness they did. Of course, they need to do that because you cannot have six-year-olds trying to school themselves at home without supervision, right? I think we can all agree that was a good thing. But what happened was that it didn't acknowledge that other people on the team might have other activities that they prioritized. And because things have been shifted to later in the day, we talked with one person who said, Look, you know, I don't have kids, I don't feel like I can say anything. But throughout the pandemic, the one thing that has kept her going has been this one workout that she was doing online, five or six o'clock every day. And because they shifted things back, she couldn't do that. And she didn't want to say, My workout isn't as important as supervising the next generation of our leaders, right? But it was really causing consternation and frustration for her. So some of it is creating an environment where everybody can say, Hey, I know this isn't the same, but I sure would like it if we could, you know, honor my activity and my priority right now. So I think that some of the flexibility has been great in a lot of ways. I worked remotely right after I got out of college when I was working for political campaigns. And let's just say that remote work in 1998 was a lot different than it is now. And then I worked remotely for a national legal nonprofit organization when I left the law school, and now with our business we've worked from all over the world. And I've seen some of these changes, I've made all the mistakes there are, I think, at different points. And we have to allow ourselves to experiment and understand. It doesn't have to stay the same way, but some of these things that can seem great in the moment, once you get going and do them for weeks and weeks and months and months, may not be a long term solution for everyone.  Andi Simon: That takes me to the point, Is going into the office necessary? You just raised a very important point. I want to have people think about the complexity of that person who's working with you, and give them the right or the option to work in ways that make sense to them. Because as you follow the logic, is going back into the office the solution? It is a very profound question about how we are going to invent the next stage. Because to your point, some worked, some didn't, so what have we done? It's going to happen all over again. And how do I measure working? Is it working or not? How will we know?  Amy Gardner: We've seen that there are some generational differences among some teams about being in the office. I just spoke with somebody, maybe a week ago, who had a lot of resentment and said, Look, they were fine with me working from home when they were either going to have no one work, or we were all going to work from home, right? And now they don't want people working from home. I mean, it is this thing of everybody pitched in and could work from home and readjust. If you think back to March 2020, nobody got to say that's correct. And so if you have team members who pulled it off and have done a good job, for you to turn around and say, Oh, we have a blanket policy. Of course, people are going to be frustrated, right? And especially right now where you can have other options. We were involved in a common mentoring program and one of the people I've been fortunate to work with in that program went to his boss and said, I'm really burned out. I've been working all these hours and I need something to give. And her response was to talk about how she works on weekends. And this is somebody who's in high demand, who sent out two résumés and got two interviews, right? I mean people have other options and they've always had other options. But it's much more stark now, I think. And so some of it is employers have to figure out what works for the workplace. But they've got to be reasonable about it. And everybody's definition of reasonable might be different based on where they're sitting.  Andi Simon: In the work that we do, and I suspect in yours too, we think about it backwards. That platinum rule, do unto others as they want to be done to. And that little illustration you had, you couldn't care less if you work weekends, a couple of weeks off without any penalty to go on a hiking tour or something that made sense. So let's flip this a little bit around and not get so angry that the employees are defining what it is that we will be doing. You can't do without them. I mean, I often talk about leaders needing followers because if you don't have anyone following you, you can't lead anywhere. And so don't diminish the power of that follower. They will either embrace you or they will abort you. And those are the two folks who didn't talk to each other. This is such fun. So we're about ready to wrap up. Please share two or three things that you'd like our listeners not to forget. Because we tend to remember the ending even better than that lovely beginning. What should they remember?  Amy Gardner: I think one thing to keep in mind is that just because you did it one way before doesn't mean you can't get a fresh start.  And so if you can seize this as an opportunity to reconsider how things are working, whether it's in your own career or whether it's with a team that you're leading, or a team where you are a member of the team. This is an opportunity for everyone to pitch in, and reset and consider what we want things to look like. And I think the second thing is to give yourself and the people around you some grace. None of us have ever come back from being home for two years before. None of us have been here before. And so it is very much giving each other grace and understanding that different people have had different things happen over the last two years. I've said many times, we're all in the same storm, but we're not in the same boat. And so the staff person who has not had backup childcare and may have lost a family member in the last two years is in a very different position than the person who may have moved to their vacation home and had lots of space, maybe been with a spouse and without small children running around. It's just a different experience. So give everybody including yourself some grace. And then the last thing is to get help. There are lots and lots of resources. You can start by sitting and listening to Andi's podcast for a day. How much could you get out of that. But there are so many things, so many resources out there that you can draw on. You do not have to go through this alone if you really want to seize this moment.  Andi Simon: I love Amy's point. You got to seize the moment. It is a really unusual gift to you to rethink, reboot, redesign, but figure out what matters to you. And I often use a little exercise. What do you want to do more of or less of? You make a list. And every time I do that with the folks I work with, they say, Oh yes. Nobody's stopping you from doing more of that, or doing less of this. You got to take control of what you're thinking. Your mind does exactly what it thinks it wants you to do and the habits take over. It's a time for you to rethink what you're doing and have a good time doing it. Why not? If people want to reach you, where can they do that?   Amy Gardner: You can always find me on LinkedIn if you search for Amy M Gardner. There are many other Amy Gardners out there. And you can also always email me: amy@Apochromatik.com.  Andi Simon: So for all of you who come to our web, to our website who come to our podcasts and are a part of our great audience, we are in the top 5% of global podcasts, whatever that might mean. I'm always honored. I love your emails. Send them to info@andisimon.com. Tell me what you want to hear more about. Amy was perfect for today because I can only tell you that a bunch of folks out there, clients of ours and others, are trying to figure out how to figure this out. And humans are clever creative creatures, but they also get stuck in the stories of yesterday and right now we need to craft new ones for tomorrow. It's a new chapter of your sitcom and it's fun. My books are there on Amazon. Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business has done really well. And On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights is still clicking away there. It has won an award and it's bringing us great clients who did change and that's what we're all about. So On the Brink with Andi Simon is here to help you see, feel and think in new ways. Amy, I'll let you say goodbye and then I'll say goodbye.   Amy Gardner: I just hope people will know that they can feel free to reach out always. I am glad to hop on the phone or hop on Zoom and chat through whatever issue you may be encountering. Always glad to hear from folks.  Andi SImon: And don't forget, there's no reason you have to do this alone. There is nothing better than picking each other's brains and having some time to laugh over a cup of coffee. It's a good time to do it. Although someone asked me if having wine every night with a friend is a good hobby. I said I'm not sure what your hobbies are. Bye everybody.

Amy M. Gardner brings years of experience as an attorney, as well as a unique experience as dean of students at a top 5 law school to Apochromatik, a coaching and consulting firm she co-founded with her husband, Keith.Together they help lawyers build careers they love, and leaders build and (re)engage great teams.She holds a B.A. in English and political science, a J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School, and an M.A. in Public Policy and Administration.Winning Business Radio is broadcast live Mondays at 4PM ET.Winning Business TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).Winning Business Radio Show is broadcast on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com)part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).Winning Business Radio Podcast is also available on Talk 4Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com),iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Chad Lingafelt chats with Amy M. Gardner, a certified career development and career transitions coach with Apochromatik. On this episode, Amy shares some actionable steps to build relationships within your organization. We discuss feedback loops, positive environments, and engaging in radical candor when navigating employee feedback. We also discuss the environment necessary to conduct open conversations and perspectives around anonymous feedback. Connect with Amy M. Gardner & Apochromatik Website: apochromatik.com Instagram: @the_apochromatk Twitter: https://twitter.com/apochromatik LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apochromatik https://www.linkedin.com/in/amygardner Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Apochromatik

In thinking about guests to invite to this podcast, I'm always on the lookout for attorneys who have taken alternative career paths. I also try to find both practicing attorneys and former practicing attorneys who have great advice to share with my audience.  Today's guest is in the latter category. Amy M. Gardner is a certified career and career transitions coach and team development and leadership consultant with Apochromatik. She works with employers to reengage teams and help them thrive. She also works with lawyers one-on-one and in small group masterminds to advance in their roles or transition to a new one. Amy is a former Big Law associate, partner at a mid-size Chicago firm, and dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including numerous podcasts, ABA publications, Glassdoor, Monster, and NBC to name a few. In this interview, Amy shares some great practical advice for associates who are trying to build their careers in private practice.

Amy M. Gardner, JD, CPC, ELI-MP Partner at Apochromatik Amy brings to Apochromatik a unique track record of working with law students as dean of students at a top 5 law school and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. In addition to countless hours completing stand-alone coaching trainings, she is a graduate of the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching. Until March, 2016, Amy was the Dean of Students at the University of Chicago Law School. Through her work as a dean of students, Amy developed an expertise in understanding the unique needs of law students and in tailoring professional education and development opportunities to their needs. Learn More: apochromatik.com

Amy M. Gardner, JD, CPC, ELI-MP Partner at Apochromatik Amy brings to Apochromatik a unique track record of working with law students as dean of students at a top 5 law school and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. In addition to countless hours completing stand-alone coaching trainings, she is a graduate of the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching. Until March, 2016, Amy was the Dean of Students at the University of Chicago Law School. Through her work as a dean of students, Amy developed an expertise in understanding the unique needs of law students and in tailoring professional education and development opportunities to their needs. Learn More: apochromatik.com

Amy M. Gardner, JD, CPC, ELI-MP Amy brings to Apochromatik a unique track record of working with law students as dean of students at a top 5 law school and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm.  In addition to countless hours completing stand-alone coaching trainings, she is a graduate of the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching. Until March, 2016, Amy was the Dean of Students at the University of Chicago Law School.  Through her work as a dean of students, Amy developed an expertise in understanding the unique needs of law students and in tailoring professional education and development opportunities to their needs.   Her work as a dean of students was described as “transformative” and “visionary.”  In addition to counseling and advising law students on a variety of issues, she drew on her legal experience to revolutionize the way the Law School prepared students for legal practice.  These efforts took the form of programs and initiatives to prepare students for the reality of the legal practice outside the classroom that are now being mimicked at other law schools.  In one such effort, Amy partnered with the Booth School of Business to create the Kapnick Leadership Development Initiative, the first program at a top law school to introduce systematic leadership development to all 1Ls.     While serving as dean of students, she received the Class Award from the Class of 2014 for outstanding contributions to improving the quality of student life and the spirit of community at the Law School.  In 2013, she was nominated to and completed the University of Chicago's Executive Program for Emerging Leaders.  She received her B.A. from Luther College in English and political science before spending two years working in Iowa politics. Amy received her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School in 2002, where she served as a Topic Access Editor for the Law Review, among other activities. She earned her M.A. in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University in 2017.  Amy spent five years as a litigation associate at Skadden in Chicago, where her extensive pro bono work was profiled by the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin and resulted in her receipt of the Chicago Volunteer Legal Services Foundation 2006 Distinguished Service Award. While an associate at Skadden, she also founded and led the Chicago Lawyer Chapter of the American Constitution Society from its first organizing meeting in 2003 to its being named the Lawyer Chapter of the Year for 2006-2007.  From Skadden, Amy was a commercial and intellectual property litigator at Ungaretti & Harris LLP in Chicago, first as an associate and later as a partner.  Amy’s extensive community service has included serving as president of the University of Chicago Alumni Club of Chicago from 2008-2010 and as a member of the University’s Alumni Board of Governors from 2010-2016.  Her service to the University was recognized by her receipt of the Young Alumni Service Citation in 2007.  In the spring of 2010, she traveled to five European cities as an American Marshall Memorial Fellow, meeting with policymakers and prominent members of the business, government, political, NGO, and media communities. In 2017, Amy was appointed to the Illinois Supreme Court Committee on Character & Fitness.  She is a member of the Illinois and U.S. Supreme Court bars.  

This week on Maximum Mom your host Elise Buie joins Amy M. Gardner, a certified Career and Career Transitions Coach and Team Development and Leadership Consultant with Apochromatik. Amy coaches lawyers and other professionals one-on-one, in small group masterminds, and delivers workshops for employers. Her work draws on her unique experience as dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. She received her B.A. from Luther College, her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School, and her M.A. in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including ABA publications, Bustle, Corporette, Glassdoor, Health, Monster, NBC, and Women's Running magazine. Watch the interview here.Subscribe to Maximum Mom on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode!

In this episode of “Tales from Around the Water Cooler,” Amy M. Gardner, certified Career and Career Transitions Coach, shares her advice for navigating work in the midst of everyday life during these uncertain times. She shares personal testimony of switching careers after a life-changing German Marshall Fellowship and offers guidance on how to transform one’s passion into a business. Amy and Kristen also discuss smart goal-setting, making each day enjoyable, and the importance of trust and communication when working on a team. Amy is a certified Career and Career Transitions Coach and Team Development and Leadership Consultant with Apochromatik (“App-o-chro-matic”). She coaches lawyers and other professionals one-on-one, in small group masterminds, and delivers workshops for employers. After graduating from the University of Chicago Law School, Amy was a Skadden litigation associate and then an associate and partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. Amy left practice to serve as the dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School for many years, where she developed her interest in developing leaders within the legal industry. She received her B.A. from Luther College, her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School, and her M.A. in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University. She has completed extensive training and earned certifications in both individual and in team and leadership coaching. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including ABA publications, Bustle, Corporette, Glassdoor, Health, Monster, NBC, and Women's Running magazine. Bio: Amy M. Gardner is a certified Career and Career Transitions Coach and Team Development and Leadership Consultant with Apochromatik. She coaches lawyers and other professionals one-on-one, in small group masterminds, and delivers workshops for employers. Her work draws on her unique experience as dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. She received her B.A. from Luther College, her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School, and her M.A. in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University. Her career and goal achievement advice has been featured in media including ABA publications, Bustle, Corporette, Glassdoor, Health, Monster, NBC, and Women's Running magazine. Stay Connected with Amy M. Gardner: Website:www.apochromatik.com Twitter:https://twitter.com/apochromatik Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/apochromatik LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apochromatik http://linkedin.com/in/amygardner Blog: https://www.apochromatik.com/blog Other: https://www.instagram.com/the_apochromatik/

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik. Here, she discusses business and political leaders she admires.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik. Here, she discusses her top priorities in 2021.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik, a career coaching and consulting company. Here, she discusses leaders she admires including Michelle Obama, the best career advice she has for others, and more.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik, a career coaching and consulting company.  Here, she discusses silver linings of this crisis, what she’s learned from this situation, and more.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik, a career coaching and consulting company.  Here, she discusses silver linings of this crisis, what she’s learned from this situation, and more.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik, a career coaching and consulting company.  Here, she discusses silver linings of this crisis, what she’s learned from this situation, and more.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner, Co-Owner of Apochromatik, a career coaching and consulting company.  Here, she discusses silver linings of this crisis, what she’s learned from this situation, and more.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner. She is a Principal at Apochromatik and a Certified Professional Coach that works with Attorneys and other professionals with career development, transitions, leadership, time management, and more. Here she discusses how she coaches professionals and her best leadership advice. She is an excellent thought leader.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner. She is a Principal at Apochromatik and a Certified Professional Coach that works with Attorneys and other professionals with career development, transitions, leadership, time management, and more. Here she discusses how she coaches professionals and her best leadership advice. She is an excellent thought leader.

This episode features Amy M. Gardner. She is a Principal at Apochromatik and a Certified Professional Coach that works with Attorneys and other professionals with career development, transitions, leadership, time management, and more. Here she discusses how she coaches professionals and her best leadership advice. She is an excellent thought leader.

In this episode of the Here We Glow Podcast, Amy M. Gardner offers practical advice for emerging professionals who strive to find the right mentors and build relationships during our early careers. She emphasizes that now is the perfect time to develop leadership skills that will be necessary to thrive during career elevation. Amy and Ashley also discuss non-cliché tips on building strong application materials such as resumes, cover letters, and references.  About Amy Amy M. Gardner is a Principal and Certified Professional Coach with Apochromatik.  She coaches attorneys and other professionals on career transitions and career challenges, including career development, leadership, time management, executive presence, and others.  She also offers group workshops and seminars (including for CLE) for law firms and other organizations. Amy is a former dean of students at a top 5 law school, former partner at a mid-size law firm, and former big law associate.  She holds a law degree from the University of Chicago Law School, a Master’s degree from Northwestern University, and a Bachelor’s degree from Luther College. Connect with Amy & Apochromatik! Email: amy@apochromatik.com Apochromatik: http://www.apochromatik.com Resume Redo: http://www.apochromatik.com/resumeredo   Connect with HWG Pod Website: hereweglowpod.com Email: ashley@hereweglowpod.com   Visit our Socials Twitter: @hereweglowpod Instagram: @hereweglowpod Facebook: @hereweglowpod

In this episode, I am excited to have Amy M. Gardner on. Amy M. Gardner is an attorney and certified professional coach who coaches attorneys on career, leadership, and professionalism issues as a principal at Apochromatik. She also provides group trainings and consulting services to law firms and other organizations. Amy has a unique track record of working with law students as dean of students at the University of Chicago Law School and a successful career practicing law, first as a Skadden litigation associate and later as an associate and then partner at a mid-size Chicago firm. Amy has been interviewed by news outlets and websites on topics including time management, leadership, professionalism, and developing and maintaining friendships as an adult. She received her B.A. from Luther College, her J.D. from the University of Chicago Law School and her M.A. in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University. She is a graduate of the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching. Topics Covered Amy starts out the episode by talking about her career path and how she kept focused on keeping her career in line with her true self. Different important aspects lawyers should be aware of when thinking about time management, as well as different tips and tricks to tracking your time. For attorneys with a significant other or spouse, what the most important hour of the week looks like in keeping the relationship strong. An amazing perspective on goal-writing to make sure you are staying motivated in reaching them, are realistic and attainable, and how to avoid beating yourself up with goals that seem too hard. For more information on Amy, find her at the following sites: www.apochromatik.com linkedin.com/in/amygardner Sources mentioned: http://amzn.to/2BUoXYZ   Questions? Comments? Email Jeena! hello@jeenacho.com. You can also connect with Jeena on Twitter: @Jeena_Cho For more information, visit: jeenacho.com Order The Anxious Lawyer book — Available in hardcover, Kindle and Audible Find Your Ease: Retreat for Lawyers I'm creating a retreat that will provide a perfect gift of relaxation and rejuvenation with an intimate group of lawyers. Interested? Please complete this form: https://jeena3.typeform.com/to/VXfIXq MINDFUL PAUSE: Bite-Sized Practices for Cultivating More Joy and Focus 31-day program. Spend just 6 minutes every day to practice mindfulness and meditation. Decrease stress/anxiety, increase focus and concentration. Interested? http://jeenacho.com/mindful-pause/ Check out this episode!   Transcript Amy Gardner: [00:00:08] Nor am I investing my time the way that I want to and the way that I need to in order to achieve my goals. Intro: [00:00:18] Welcome to The Resilient Lawyer podcast. In this podcast, we have meaningful, in-depth conversations with lawyers, entrepreneurs, and change agents. We offer tools and strategies for creating a more joyful and satisfying life. And now your host, Jeena Cho. Jeena Cho: [00:00:38] Hello my friends, thanks for being with us today. In this episode I'm so happy to have Amy Gardner. She is an attorney and certified professional coach who coaches attorneys on career leadership and professionalism as she is at Appochromatik. She also provides group training and consulting services to law firms and other organizations. Amy has a unique track record of working with law students as dean of students at University of Chicago Law School and a successful career practicing law or as a litigation associate and later as an associate partner at Miss Chicago firm. Before we get into the interview, if you haven't listened to the last bonus episode go back and check it out. I shared a 6 minute guided meditation practice to let go of stress and anxiety. It's a preview for my course Mindful Pause, which will relaunch in March. So often I hear lawyers say they know they should practice mindfulness but they don't have the time, and as I always tell every lawyer they can start with just six minutes or .1 hour. Of all the hours you dedicate to your clients, work, and others, you deserve to have at least one hour to yourself. Mindful Pause is designed for lawyers like you to fit into your hectic schedule. Also, check it out in the show notes or head on over to JeenaCho.com to learn more. And with that, here's Amy. Amy, welcome to The Resilient Lawyer podcast. Amy Gardner: [00:02:01] Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I really appreciate it. Jeena Cho: [00:02:04] So let's just get started by having you know give us a 30 second introduction of who you are and what you Dale. Amy Gardner: [00:02:10] Sure. So as you mentioned I previously practiced law first at Skåne Chicago and then at a mid-sized firm in Chicago. It is now part of Nixon Peabody and after making partner there realized. About a year later that it wasn't quite the right fit for me and quite what I expected it to be. So I went to the University of Chicago Law School as the dean of students there created a number of professionalism and leadership programs there and had the opportunity to do some coaching trainings and start using a Coaching Approach with students which I found really rewarding and enjoyable. And so when I decided to leave the University of Chicago Law School I wanted to hang on to some of the elements that I had really liked about the Dean of Students job and one of those was the coaching aspect. So I completed an intensive coaching certification program and now I coach attorneys and other professionals often as you said on career and leadership issues. So people who are not sure if they want to make partner or people who want to make partner but need to work on certain skills to be able to get there or people who just have been sliding through their careers and need help to start move into moving into a place where they're actually deciding what they want and then for people who want to make a change. I often do mock interviews resume review cover letter review and things like that. [00:03:33] And then as you mentioned we also do trainings often for law firms and other organizations on things like time management. How to receive feedback how to give feedback how to be a good mentor or good mentee. All sorts of topics like that just trying to help attorneys and other professionals to get rid of the distractions and distortions in their careers and really focus on what they want out of their careers and lives and then how to get there. Jeena Cho: [00:04:02] I think your career is just so interesting because I find that so often lawyers like really super identify with who they are with what they do. It's almost like the sum of their entire sum of who they are as just being a lawyer and just seems like such a huge jump to go from like being in a law firm to going back to a law school as as a dad and then now kind of going off on your own and doing coaching and you just talk a little bit about that journey. And like you know how did you know that it was time to shift. And did you have any like hesitations about letting go of your identity as a lawyer. Amy Gardner: [00:04:45] I think for me it was I loved practicing law. I had done two trials. I had second chaired a really big jury trial in Texas. I had taken a bunch of depositions I had done all the things that you're supposed to do. And I had enjoyed a lot about that. I enjoyed the intellectual challenge but several of my professors came to me and said hey you know the Dean of Students is leaving. You should think about doing this. And I was sort of like give me a break. I'm a law firm partner. Why would I want to go be responsible for 700 students. [00:05:20] And I had the opportunity to do a four week fellowship in Europe through the German Marshall Fund and I met all of these amazing lawyers in different cities in Europe who were doing things that felt more meaningful to me than the work that I was doing at that point and it got me thinking more broadly about what I could do with my skills and experience. And that didn't necessarily involve discovery disputes and things like that and I realized that OK maybe the Dean of Students thing is a good idea and as I talked to friends about it people person after person kept saying oh my gosh that's perfect for you. When I get my notice my old firm the partner I been working for started laughing and said Of course you are of course an expert. And so it was and I was working for a particular Dean makes schol who is now the president at the University of Oregon. And Mike really wanted as he put it. He liked the fact I downshifted from a law firm to higher ed and he really gave me a lot of runway and support to do a lot of things with community building and professionalism and leadership training that the university Chicago Law School hadn't done before. So he really enabled me to approach it from the standpoint of somebody who had been supervising junior associates and knew what they needed and the opportunity to see students learn and grow was really exciting and meaningful. And so I really liked that aspect in terms of when I decided to leave and deciding what I wanted to do next. It was a long process. [00:07:00] I won't bore you with but I had decided back in 2014 to leave and I stayed for two years after that. And so during that time I had met with a career coach had really I had the gift of being able to think about what I wanted to do and how I would do something that was aligned with my values. But that didn't have some of the drawbacks that I had seen as a dean of students because I had had offers to go to other schools and knew that that wasn't where I wanted to spend the next segment of my career. And I saw how valuable it was to work with a coach who didn't have her own agenda and who simply wanted me to figure out what I wanted and then helped me get there and as opposed to a mentor or even a significant other who often has their own slant or viewpoint on things. And I saw how valuable that was and realized how valuable that might have been. At other points in my career and especially as I started using coaching techniques students realized wait a minute. I really like this and this actually could be my career rather than just a segment of it. Jeena Cho: [00:08:11] Yeah. You know maybe we can spend a little bit time talking about you know working with a coach. I think it's not something that's necessarily familiar to lawyers. I I would go to college. I love working at a coach. You know how is working with a coach Lessie different than seeing a therapist like what's the role of a coach and why should a lawyer consider working with Coach Sure. Amy Gardner: [00:08:38] So it's different than working with a therapist in large part because coaching and agreements are set up to be short term. So for example you might sign on with a coach for 12 sessions and that isn't to say that you can do a second set or third set of sessions but it's generally focused on discrete issues so another difference is that with a therapist where and I say this not in any way as a dig against therapists and I have recommended therapy to many many former students and attorney friends over the years but in therapy often it can be more focused on looking at the past and looking backwards and understanding actions and issues and focused on more mental health issues like that that can be more pervasive versus in coaching. If somebody comes to me and says I need to learn how to have a better relationship with my boss we're going to look backwards a bit to understand how the relationship got to where it is but then we're going to be focused on the strategies going forward. [00:09:44] And it's going to be more focused on not looking at underlying issues I would never ask a client about what my relationship with your father teach you about this situation and things like that if there are deeper issues that I'm going to refer a client to a therapist because I have loads of counseling and coaching training but I'm not a therapist. And so there are times where I have clients who work with both a therapist and a coach. I have clients who have worked with a therapist who then has recommended that they work with the coach. So we're going to be more focused on how the client can move forward and address particular skills and the changes they want to make in life. So things like if you know you want to make partner figuring out what skills you need and then how you can get those skills versus getting into more mental health type issues it. Jeena Cho: [00:10:37] Can take a little bit about sort of the nitty gritty of how to be a better human. If he had a lawyer and I knew a thing that so many lawyers struggle with that is actually managing their time you know first time as one of our most important resources and most valuable resources and we only get fourteen hundred forty minutes a day and I think there's this expectation that if you just keep adding more things onto your to do less somehow it will magically get done and now that we're in this really all that mindful about what we put on that list is just more stuff gets piled on there and then we and then our entire goal is to just try to work through that to do less and we sort of measure how well we're doing by how many things we checked off our to do that. Now what are some things that lawyers can do to kind of stay on top of their time and manage their time better. Amy Gardner: [00:11:29] So it may sound counterintuitive but one thing that I found incredibly helpful is for lawyers to track their time and often lawyers say wait a minute I already have to record my time for my job. But what I found with my clients and in my own experience is that there are all these things you do during the day that aren't reflected in your time sheet. And those are things both at work and afterwork. And so what I recommend is tracking all of your time for a week and if you do that you'll figure out where those 4800 and 40 minutes a day are going and then you can use that information to evaluate am I investing my time the way that I want to and the way that I need to in order to achieve my goals and when I've done this for myself. I've often found that I am doing things that don't need to be done or I'm doing things that could be automated or delegated off of my To Do list. [00:12:25] And so you do lose that dogmeat head us crossing something off your to do list. But what you save is just a little bit of your energy for things that really matter rather than things that are getting you distracted. Jeena Cho: [00:12:38] Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You know when I was going through my career transition I was working with a coach and she kind of had me do something similar which was as I'm going through my day actually color. Could the calendars I use google calendar show you know when I look back if I the last hour that I spent if I really felt like at ease and if I really enjoy what I was doing I would be a different color. And then if I like really trended and hated what I was doing it be a different color. No it's really interesting to see after a week just seeing like you know where where these little pockets of time where I like really hated what I was doing and there I knew other pockets of time where I was really enjoying and feeling like I was you know experiencing that sense of flow and ease. [00:13:23] Now I was like OK like now I'm going to try to do more of coming of course like like can't be just all about you know the stuff that makes you happy and whatever the pleasure chasing. But it was a really interesting experiment to do and I think there's a lot of value in just seeing where your time goes and not sort of going through it mindlessly. Amy Gardner: [00:13:43] It's fascinating that there are all these studies that show that we overestimate in our minds how much we actually work during the week. And this can be really revealing to see OK maybe actually I'm not working as many hours as I think or maybe I'm not spending as many hours on housework and hoping that my significant other being an active part of the relationship as I thought maybe I'm not spending as much time with family members or friends as I thought. And for me sometimes as little things like when I've done this sometimes I've discovered that I waste a lot of time. If I start with e-mails in the morning and that's been really valuable to realize that I'm starting my day with other people's priorities and of course there are limits to how much you can ignore your email for the first hour of the day when you're a lawyer. But it can really lead to some useful insights about where your time is going and where you can find more of it. And like you said where you would like to be spending more time and what's making you happy. Jeena Cho: [00:14:41] Yeah. So do you not take your e-mails pacing in the morning. Amy Gardner: [00:14:45] So I try to not check my e-mail first thing in the morning but it's really hard. So my compromise is usually I just skim it to see if there's anything urgent and then I try to come back to it spend a couple hours getting concentrated work done and then come back to it a bit later because I've found that otherwise if I start off by replying to emails first thing in the morning my day goes down a path that may or may not be consistent with what I need to get done that day or want to go on holiday. [00:15:13] Often if you give things a few minutes rather than responding instantly a lot of things work themselves out. Jeena Cho: [00:15:19] Yeah that's true. Yeah that's one of the things that I struggle with all the time and I you know and especially when I teach mindfulness classes as one of the things that comes up really often lawyers as I tried to find a healthy relationship with your inbox and that there is anything like single or easy answers to that because I notice you know I also try not to check my e-mail friends in the morning but then I just have that anxiety around like what's that. And then when I do use the Internet you know usually there is like if there's nothing urgent then it's like okay great I can sort of go home at my day. [00:15:57] But if there is something that requires my attention that can end up derailing my day in a way that I wasn't anticipated in hindsight it's like that. Think how we could have waited until some other day to reach Antti but it's really hard not to kind of get sucked into the vortex of whatever it is. And bandsmen your inbox and I feel like as we kind of evolve and trying to figure out. Like what. Like what. No. And it really hasn't been that binds. So e-mail became such a crucial part of how we communicate and I think we're all sort of struggling to try to figure out like what does that balance look like. Amy Gardner: [00:16:40] And I think there's a big difference for me. So it's often a client emergency as a client just got an interview on very short notice and I need to help the client get ready for the interview. So it's not an emergency persay but it's you know it's something urgent. But obviously if you're practicing law there are times where I think they have an emergency that may or may not be an emergency. But then there are true emergencies. [00:17:04] But to the extent that you're just dealing with normal things that are you know the things that make up your day and you have something that is more critical. You have to figure out what works for you in the setting that you're in and with your clients and try to stick to it but it can be credibly difficult to do that. [00:17:25] You have a tool that you like to use for what your client's son BNA to track their time and see where you know they're spending how they're spending their time so we do. And if your listeners visit our Web site it's Apple chromatic dot com notably in the show notes. But if they go there and sign up for e-mail list and type in the word time to me I'm happy to send them a link so that they can download it for themselves. But it's just one page essentially where you log what you've done every day you do that and I recommend doing it on paper. We just found that there's something about the physical act of writing it down and if you use an app has made that on your phone then you can get sucked into the rabbit hole of all the other things going on on your phone. [00:18:12] So I recommend using paper and then once you log your time for the week and the second page of the download has an exercise you can do to tally up what categories of your life most of your time is going to and which I think that second step could be really instructive. I think the first step can help you see. Yikes. I actually spent half an hour today trying to figure out a perfect Spotify Running list and I only ran for 20 minutes anyway. And so that piece of it is really helpful for awareness but then that second step I think is really helpful to see whether you're spending your time in a way that's consistent with your priorities and your values. And of course every week is different. [00:18:53] All that but I really think it can be credibly valuable. Jeena Cho: [00:18:58] For the lawyers that are married and they have significant other you know people that they love and want to spend time. Like what's your suggestion for kind of carving out time for that person and really prioritizing it or you have like tools or shedded GS or actually cultivating those relationships that are meaningful and important to you. Amy Gardner: [00:19:24] Sure so I got married at the beginning of my 3L year in law school to my college boyfriend. So many many moons ago. We've had a lot of practice of this and one thing that has worked for us and that has worked for several of our clients is and bear with me because I know this is going to sound completely unromantic but it's a weekly calendar meeting and we really recommend that you set aside an hour where there are no distractions and you sit and talk with each other about your week ahead. And in the coming weeks. And the idea is that it gets you in touch with each other. It gets you in sync and it just helps minimize the chaos. Jeena Cho: [00:20:09] Yeah I really like that idea that anything there is all this expectation that your relationship should just work magically vanish. Amy Gardner: [00:20:19] If only if only that level of eight words. Jeena Cho: [00:20:22] Yeah. And sometimes you actually need a little bit of planning to be spontaneous rationing. Yeah. Amy Gardner: [00:20:31] We have a checklist that we go through to make sure that we had everything. And it really it makes a tremendous difference. Jeena Cho: [00:20:40] What is your checklist. Amy Gardner: [00:20:42] So we like to start with three things that we're grateful for from the previous week. And the idea is that that starts things off on a positive note and helps you share in those joys that you may not have had the chance to talk about yet. And then we focus on the week and weekend ahead. So who has what major commitments who will be home late one night of the week who will be swamped which days. Things like that. And then after we go through the week then we look over the next month to try to minimize big surprises. So who has a work trip coming up who has a big meeting to prepare for that's going to take a lot of her time. Any upcoming holidays or birthdays that you need to get a gift for. And then any upcoming trips or 3 day weekends that you might want to schedule something fun during and then we go on to meal planning for the upcoming week and make a grocery list and then go through duties. Who is going to get the drycleaning when it's ready on Wednesday. Who is cooking that week. And certainly for people who have children you'd want to go through and who's handling the soccer team snacks on Thursday. Things like that and what we found you know there's been a lot written lately about emotional labor and how that can end up divided in a relationship. [00:21:59] We found that having this meeting where we're both talking about all these issues has really helped make our marriage much more equal that I think it might be otherwise and it just helps you feel more like a teen because you're approaching the league with the United Front you with better communication and it just it increases the feeling of camaraderie when things don't go quite as planned. And for us it's really helped minimize the chaos. Jeena Cho: [00:22:25] Yeah yeah I can see how this would help to sort of reduce that cognitive overload that we can have a kind of like does running through all of these scenes that we have to keep in the back of my mind. It's like OK like I just have to keep running through that safe. Don't forget it. [00:22:40] But this actually kind of set its proper place in space so that you don't have to like constantly think about us and what the fear of forgetting is you know that I might do to pick up the dry cleaners or go pick up the milk or raid and I guess this kind of does heal nicely into and it's also like beginning of the year. It's a nice time to start to think about them and I don't even really like that word. New Year's resolution because I think it's just kind of has her baggage and kind of goes along with that. You know I think so I feel like we started off the beginning of the year with all the best intentions but you know eat or kale you get more exercise or whatever it is. Now of course by January were ready for gotten high resolution. [00:23:27] So suggestions or thoughts about how to sort of plan your goals so that you know you don't like immediately forget it or else it's just one of those things that kind of just add to that sense of burden and guilt. Amy Gardner: [00:23:44] Yeah. There's nothing actually magical about January 1st. And so I encourage people to give themselves Grace with January and think about goals you know year round because any day is an opportunity to start a new habit or to start working on a goal. One of my favorite resources for goal setting is this book by Michael Hiatt that came out in January of 2013 called best year ever. And so a lot of my thinking about goals has been really informed by my clients programs and books about goal setting. But one of the things that he recommends is we've all heard of SMART goals. He recommends the smarter goal framework which I really love and basically the idea is that your goal should be specific measurable and actionable. But instead of realistic like we normal talk normally talk about with smart goals he recommends that your goals be risky and the ideas that you give yourself the chance to rise to the challenge by setting goals that are going to stretch and challenge you. And so that's one piece that's a little different. And then he of course recommends a b time keyed then the the E.R. pert of smarter is E is for exciting and the idea is that it has to be something you feel inspired by because whether it's the thing itself or the thing that will result. So you may not be excited by the thought of paying off your student loans but the thought of the financial freedom you'll have afterwards might be the exciting piece for you. [00:25:13] And the idea is if you don't have something about the goal or the outcome that's exciting you're not going to follow through. And then he has a second R so that the smarter is relevant. And they're saying you know this goal has to align with my life my values and then my goals have to align with each other. So if you're a junior associate at a big firm you could have a goal to go from a couch potato to running a marathon in a year. And that might work for you but you're also trying to get home to new baby. Then you might just not have the hours that you'd need each week for the long runs to be able to run a marathon. So it might be that a goal of running a 5 K or a 10K might be more relevant to your life. And so the idea is that from the get go you're writing goals that are going to be achievable but also excite you and be relevant to your life. And so you're setting yourself up for more success just as you're writing your goals than another piece that so many people advise. And I've definitely seen in my own life and with my clients is the importance of writing your goals down and so you can have that frame of reference and so you don't just put them in the back of your mind. And also keeping your y front of mind. So it's when you reach the point that things are you're actually having to deliver on these goals and do the work to achieve them. Remembering your why is so vital to keep you going. I actually had a goal last year to finish my master's degree from Northwestern and public policy and administration. [00:26:54] And when I wrote out my Y in January it seemed so obvious why I wanted to finish my master's degree and the weekend that my final capstone paper was due. I actually went back to my wife to remember why am I doing this and and it and I was like okay I can get through three more days. [00:27:11] All right. It was really helpful for me. And then you know we also we often write down our goals and then set them aside and you know January 15th to remember what they were because we haven't kept them front of mind. But we also have a schedule time to work on them. So I encourage my clients to set aside some time whether it's every day or every weekend. When you're actually going to work on those goals. Yeah I didn't really know. Jeena Cho: [00:27:36] Yeah I think it's you know sometimes really counterintuitive but actually setting goals that I think there's this sense like if I you know set the goal to run a marathon then that's somehow better than you know running a 5 k. But I think sometimes it's actually more helpful to set like a fairly easily achievable goal because then you don't have that sense of discouragement. So by January or if you're not on track to run a marathon then you feel sure discouraging you start engaging in negative self taught. Like oh my guys are you again so going into it and then saying like you know what. I'm just going to you know walk or run specification potato. And that's like an easily achievable goal. And then you can sort of work your way up from there like I often talk to lawyers about you know meditation and then it's like I'm going to start meditating I'm going to do half an hour a day and I'm like No no no. [00:28:32] You know it's over like two minutes a day you know like honestly that it's just so many of these habits are really more about consistency rather than duration. Amy Gardner: [00:28:43] Absolutely. And I think that you know help letting yourself build momentum and get some easy wins can encourage you and keep you going. So you could do something if you your goal was to say run a 10k in November you could set a goal. I'm going to run a five K by April. And you know you give yourself that checkpoint so you can feel that sense of accomplishment and celebration and give yourself something that's more readily attainable as a stepping stone on your way to that bigger goal. Jeena Cho: [00:29:12] Yeah. Anything that feels like a nice place to pause in and if the list is out there that are interested in learning more about you or your services. Where should they go. Amy Gardner: [00:29:27] Sure so we'd love to have them visit epigrammatic dot com. It's a p o c h r and h t. K dot com. And again if you enter a time in the message on the sign up box to join our email list you'll automatically receive a download of a Time Tracker and that you can use to receive tracking your time helps you get more on top of it and find more time. Jeena Cho: [00:29:51] And we finally get to one more question. What does it mean to be a resilient lawyer to you? Amy Gardner: [00:30:00] So to me, being a resilient lawyer means hanging onto the reasons that you went to law school and keeping those in mind, even on the days when it can be very easy to forget. And then every day trying to be a little bit better than you'd been the day before. Jeena Cho: [00:30:17] Thank you so much for joining me today, I really appreciate it. Amy Gardner: [00:30:21] Thank you. Closing: [00:30:28] Thanks for joining us on The Resilient Lawyer podcast. If you've enjoyed the show, please tell a friend. It's really the best way to grow the show. To leave us a review on iTunes, search for The Resilient Lawyer and give us your honest feedback. It goes a long way to help with our visibility when you do that, so we really appreciate it. As always, we'd love to hear from you. E-mail us at smile@theanxiouslawyer.com. Thanks and look forward to seeing you next week.