Podcasts about angie you

The biotech industry offers unique opportunities for women to advance as executives and entrepreneurs. There are headwinds, however, including unequal access to venture capital. In this episode, we talk with three executives who are part of a wave of women-led companies in biotech. Our guests speak to why women's leadership matters and the barriers that remain to breaking the glass ceiling. They also tell us about a new networking initiative—the biotech sisterhood—to catalyze women's success in corporate leadership and mentor the next generation of women executives.  Follow us on LinkedIn, X, Facebook and Instagram. Visit us at https://www.bio.org/

Follow us on LinkedIn, X, Facebook and Instagram. Visit us at https://www.bio.org/The biotech industry offers unique opportunities for women to advance as executives and entrepreneurs. There are headwinds, however, including unequal access to venture capital. In this episode, we talk with three executives who are part of a wave of women-led companies in biotech. Our guests speak to why women's leadership matters and the barriers that remain to breaking the glass ceiling. They also tell us about a new networking initiative—the biotech sisterhood—to catalyze women's success in corporate leadership and mentor the next generation of women executives.     

About Angie Angie Jones is a Java Champion and Senior Director who specializes in test automation strategies and techniques. She shares her wealth of knowledge by speaking and teaching at software conferences all over the world, writing tutorials and technical articles on angiejones.tech, and leading the online learning platform, Test Automation University.As a Master Inventor, Angie is known for her innovative and out-of-the-box thinking style  which has resulted in more than 25 patented inventions in the US and China. In her spare time, Angie volunteers with Black Girls Code to teach coding workshops to young girls in an effort to attract more women and minorities to tech.Links: Applitools: https://applitools.com Black Girls Code: https://www.blackgirlscode.com Test Automation University: https://testautomationu.applitools.com Personal website: https://angiejones.tech Twitter: https://twitter.com/techgirl1908 TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by CircleCI. CircleCI is the leading platform for software innovation at scale. With intelligent automation and delivery tools, more than 25,000 engineering organizations worldwide—including most of the ones that you've heard of—are using CircleCI to radically reduce the time from idea to execution to—if you were Google—deprecating the entire product. Check out CircleCI and stop trying to build these things yourself from scratch, when people are solving this problem better than you are internally. I promise. To learn more, visit circleci.com.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Thinkst. This is going to take a minute to explain, so bear with me. I linked against an early version of their tool, canarytokens.org in the very early days of my newsletter, and what it does is relatively simple and straightforward. It winds up embedding credentials, files, that sort of thing in various parts of your environment, wherever you want to; it gives you fake AWS API credentials, for example. And the only thing that these things do is alert you whenever someone attempts to use those things. It's an awesome approach. I've used something similar for years. Check them out. But wait, there's more. They also have an enterprise option that you should be very much aware of canary.tools. You can take a look at this, but what it does is it provides an enterprise approach to drive these things throughout your entire environment. You can get a physical device that hangs out on your network and impersonates whatever you want to. When it gets Nmap scanned, or someone attempts to log into it, or access files on it, you get instant alerts. It's awesome. If you don't do something like this, you're likely to find out that you've gotten breached, the hard way. Take a look at this. It's one of those few things that I look at and say, “Wow, that is an amazing idea. I love it.” That's canarytokens.org and canary.tools. The first one is free. The second one is enterprise-y. Take a look. I'm a big fan of this. More from them in the coming weeks.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. If there's one thing that I have never gotten the hang of, its testing. Normally, I just whack the deploy button, throw it out into the general ecosystem, and my monitoring system is usually called ‘customers.' And if I don't want to hear from them, I just stopped answering calls from the support desk. Apparently, that is no longer state of the art because it's been about 15 years. Here to talk about testing from a more responsible direction is Angie Jones, a senior director and developer at Applitools. Thanks for joining me.Angie: Hey, Corey. [laugh]. I am cracking up at your confession there and I appreciate it because you're not unique in that story. I find that a lot of engineers [laugh] follow that same trend.Corey: There are things we talk about and there are the things that we really do instead. We see it all over the place. We talk about infrastructure as code, but everyone clicks around for a few things in the Cloud Console, for example. And so on, and so forth. We all know we should in theory be doing things, but expediency tends to win the day.And for better or worse, talking about testing, in many cases, makes some of us feel better about not actually doing testing. And one of these days, it's one of those, “I really should learn how TDD would work in an approach like this.” But my primary language has always been, well, always been a crappy version of whatever I'm using, but for the last few years, it's been Python. There are whole testing frameworks around all of these things, but I feel like it requires me to actually have good programming practices to begin with which, let's be very clear here, I most assuredly doubt.Angie: [laugh]. That's a fair assessment, but I would also argue, in cases like those, you need testing even more, right? You need something to cover your butt. So, what are you doing? You're just, kind of, living on the edge here?Corey: Sort of. In my case, it's always been that I'll bring in an actual developer who knows what they're doing to—Angie: Ah.Corey: —turn some of my early scripts into actual tools. And the first question is, “Okay, can you explain what this is doing for me?” “Great. So, we're going to throw it away and completely replace it with—so what are the inputs, what are the outputs, and do you want me to preserve the bugs or not?” At which point, it's great.It's more or less like I'm inviting someone to come in and just savage my code, which is apparently also a best practice. But for better or worse, I've never really thought of myself as an engineer, so it's one of those areas where it's it doesn't cut to the core of my identity in any particular way. I do know it would be nice that, oh yeah, when I wind up doing an iterative deployment of a Lambda function or something, if it takes five minutes to get updated, and then I forgot to put a comma in or something ridiculous like that. Yeah. Would have been nice to have something—you know, a pre-commit hook—that caught something like that.Angie: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. You said, “Well, maybe one of these days, I'll learn.” And that's the issue I find. No matter what route you took to learn how to become—whatever you are, software engineer, whatever—testing likely wasn't part of that curriculum.So, we focus—when teaching—very heavily on teaching you how to code and how to build something, but very little, if any, on how to ensure you built the right thing and that it stands the test of time.Corey: My approach has always been well, time to write some code, and it started off as just, as a grumpy systems administrator, it was always shell scripts, which, okay, great. Instead of doing this thing on 15 machines, run upon a for loop and just iterate through them. And in time, you start inheriting other people's crappy tooling, and well, I could rewrite the entire thing and a week-and-a-half, or I could figure out just enough Perl to change that one line in there, and that's how they get you. You sort of stumbled your way into it in that direction. Naive questions I always like to ask around testing that never really get answers for because I don't think to ask these when other people are in the room and it's not two o'clock in the morning and the power is gone out.You have a basic linter test of, do you have basic syntax errors in the code? Will it run? Seems to be a sort of baseline, easy acceptance test. But then you get into higher-level testing of unit tests, integration tests, and a bunch of others I'm sure I'm glossing over because—to be direct—I tend to conflate all these in my head. What is the hierarchy of testing if there is such a thing?Angie: Yeah, so Mike Cohn actually created a model that is very heavily used within the industry, and it's called the ‘Test Automation Pyramid.' And what this model suggests is that you have your unit tests; you have some kind of, like, integration-type tests in the middle, and then you have these end-to-end tests on top. So, think of a pyramid divided into three sections. But that's not divided equally; the largest part of that pyramid, which is the base, is the unit test. So, this suggests that the bulk of your test suite should comprise of unit tests.The idea here is that these are very small, they're very targeted, meaning they're easier to write, they take less time to run, and if you have an error, it kind of pinpoints exactly what's wrong in the system. So, these are great. The next level would be your integration. So, now how do two units integrate together? So, you can test this layer multiple different ways: it might be with APIs, it might be the business logic itself, you know, calling into functions or something like that.And this one is smaller than the unit test but not as large as the final part, which is the end-to-end test. And that one is your smallest piece, and it doesn't even have to be end-to-end. It could be UI, actually. That's how it's labeled by Mike Cohn in his book: UI tests. So, the UI tests, these are going to be your most fragile tests, these are going to take the most time to write as well as the most time to execute.If something goes wrong, you have to dig down to figure out what exactly broke to make this happen. So, this should be the smallest chunk of your overall testing strategy.Corey: People far smarter than I have said that in many cases—along with access—testing, and monitoring—or observability, which is apparently a term for hipster monitoring—are lying on the same axis. Where in the olden days of systems administration, you can ping the machine and it responds just fine, but the only thing that's left on that crashed machine is just enough of the network stack to return a ping, so everything except the thing that tells you it's fine is in fact broken. So, as you wind up building more and more sophisticated applications, the idea being that the testing and the ‘is everything all right' monitoring ping tends to, more or less, coalesce into the same thing. Is that accurate from your view of the world? Is that something that is an oversimplification of something much more nuanced? Or did I completely misunderstand what they were saying, which is perfectly possible?Angie: You kind of lost me somewhere in the middle. So, I'm just going to nod and say yes. [laugh].Corey: [laugh]. No, no, it—the hard part that I've always found is… I lie to myself, when I'm writing code: “Oh, I don't need to write a unit test for this,” because I'd gotten it working, I tested it with something that I know is good, it returns what I expect; I tested with something bad and well, some undefined behavior happens—because that's a normal thing to happen with code—and great, I don't need to have a test for that because I've already got it working. Problem solved.Angie: Right. Right.Corey: It's a great lie.Angie: Yeah.Corey: And then I make a change later on that, in fact, does break it. It's the, “But I'm writing this code once and why would I ever go back to this code and write it again? It's just a quick-and-dirty patch that only needs to exist for a couple of weeks.” Yeah, the todo: remove this later, and that code segment winds up being load-bearing decades into the future. I'm like, “Yeah, one of these days, someone's going to go back and clean up all of my code for me.” Like, the code fairies are going to come in the middle of the night with the elves, and tidy everything up. I would love to hire those mythical creatures, but can't find them.Angie: This mythical sprint, where it's, “Oh, let's only clean up this entire sprint.” You know, everybody's kind of holding out and waiting for that. But no, you hit the nail on the head with the reason why you need to automate your tests, essentially. So, I find a lot of newer folks to the space, they really don't understand, why on earth would I spend time writing code to represent this test? Just like you said, “I implemented the feature. I tried it out, it worked.” [laugh]. “And hey, I even tried a non-happy path. And when it broke, I had a nice little error message to tell the user what to do.”And they feel really good about that, so they can't understand, “Why would I invest the time—which I don't have—to write some tests?” The reason for that it's just as you said: this is for regression. Unless that's the end of this application and you're not going to touch it ever again for any reason, then you need to write some tests [laugh] because you're going to constantly change the application, whether that be refactoring, whether that be adding new features to it, it's going to change in some way and you cannot be sure that the tests of yesterday still work today because whenever you make the change, you're just going to poke around manually at that little area not realizing there could be some integration things that you totally screwed up here and you miss that until it goes out into prod.Corey: The worst developer I've ever met—hands down—was me, six months before I'm looking at whatever it is that I've written. And given that I do a lot of my stuff in a vacuum and I'm the only person to ever touch these repositories, I could run Git blame, but I already know exactly what it's going to tell me—Angie: “It's me.” [laugh].Corey: —so we're just going to skip that part. Like it's a test. And, “Yeah, we're just going to try and fix that and never speak about it again.” But I can't count the number of times I have looked at code that I've written—and I do mean written; not blindly copy-and-pasted out of Stack Overflow, but actually wrote, and at the time, I understood exactly what it did—and then I look at it, and it is, “What on earth was I thinking? What—what—it technically doesn't even return anything; it can't be doing anything. I can just remove that piece entirely.” And the whole thing breaks.I've out-clevered myself in many respects. And I love the idea, the vision, that testing would catch these things as I'm making those changes, but then I never do it. It's getting started down that path and developing a more nuanced, and dare I say it, formal understanding of the art and science of software development. Always feels like the sort of thing I'll get to one of these days, but never actually got around to. Nowadays, my testing strategy is to just actually deploy things into someone else's account and hope for the best.And, “Oh, good. Well, everyone has a test account; ideally, it's not their own production account.” And then we start to expand on beyond that. You have come to this from a very different direction in a number of different ways. You are—among other things—a Java Champion, which makes it sound like you fought the final boss at the end of the developer internet. And they sound really hard. What is a Java Champion?Angie: Yeah. So, a Java Champion is essentially an influencer in the Java ecosystem. You can't just call yourself this; like you say, you got to fight the guy at the end, you know? But seriously, in order to become one, a current Java Champion has to nominate you, and all of the other Java Champions has to review your package, basically looking at your work. What have you contributed to the developer community, in terms of Java?So, I've done a number of courses that I've taught; I've taught at the university level, as well; I am always talking about testing and using Java to show how to do that, as well as talks and all of this stuff. So apparently, I had enough [laugh] for folks to vote me in. So, it is an organization that's kind of ordained by Oracle, the Gods of Java. So, it's a great accomplishment for me. I'm extremely happy about it. And just so happens to be the first black woman to become a Java Champion. So, the news made a big deal about that. [laugh].Corey: Congratulations. Anytime you wind up getting that level of recognition in any given ecosystem, it's something to stop and take note of. But that's compounded by just the sheer scale and scope of the Java community as a whole. Every big tech company I know has inordinate amounts of Java scattered throughout their infrastructure, a lot of their core services are written in Java, which makes me feel increasingly strange for not really knowing anything about it, other than that, it's big and that there are—this entire ecosystem of IDs, and frameworks, and ways to approach these things that it feels like those of us playing around in crappy bash-scripting-land have the exact opposite experience of, “Oh, I'm just going to fire up an empty page and fill it with a bunch of weird commands and run it, and it fails, and run it again, and it fails. And it finally succeeds when I fixed all the syntax errors, and that's great.” It feels like there is a much more structured approach to writing Java compared to other languages, be they scripts or full-on languages.Angie: Yeah. That's been a gift and a curse of the language. So, as newer frameworks have come out, or even as JavaScript has made its way to the front of the line, people start looking at Java, it's kind of bloated, and all of these rules and structures were in place, but that feels like boilerplate stuff and cumbersome in today's development space. So, fortunately, the powers that be have been doing a lot of changes in Java. We went for quite a while where releases were about, mmm, every three years or so.And now they've committed to releases every six months. So, [laugh] most people are on Java 8 still, but we're actually at, like, Java 16, now. So, now it's kind of hard to keep up but that makes it fun as well. There's all of these newer features and new capabilities, and now you can even do functional programming in Java, so it's pretty nice.Corey: Question I have is, does testing lend itself more easily to Java versus other language? And I promise I'm not trying to start a language war here. I just know that, “Well, how do I effectively test my Python code?” Leads to a whole bunch of? “Well, it depends.”It's like asking an attorney any question on the planet; same story. Like, “Well, it really depends on a whole bunch of things.” Is it a clearer, more structured path in Java, or is it still the same murky there are 15 different ways to do it and whichever one you pick, there's a whole cacophony of folks telling you you've done it wrong?Angie: Yeah, that's a very interesting question. I haven't dug into that deep, but Java is by far the most popular programming language for UI test automation. And I wonder why that is because you don't use Java for building front end. You use Java scripts. I don't know how this ca—I—well, I do know how it came to be.Like, back in the day, when we first started doing test automation, JavaScript was a joke, right? People would laugh at you if you said that you were going to use JavaScript. It's, you know, “I'm going to learn JavaScript and try to enter the workforce.” So, you know, that was a big no-no, and kind of a joke back then. So, Java was what a lot of your developers were using even if they were only using it for the backend, maybe.You didn't really have a [unintelligible 00:16:32] language on the client-side, back then. You had your PHP on the back end, you just did some HTML and some CSS on the front end. So, there wasn't a whole lot of scripting going on back then. So, Java was the language that people chose to use. And so there's a whole community out there for Java and testing.Like, the libraries are very mature, there's open-source products and things like this. So, this is by far the most popular language that people use, no matter what their application is built in.This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle Cloud. Counting the pennies, but still dreaming of deploying apps instead of "Hello, World" demos? 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Visit https://snark.cloud/oci-free that's https://snark.cloud/oci-free.Corey: If I were looking to get a job in enterprise these days, it feels like Java is the direction to go in, with the counterpoint that, let's say that I go the path that I went through: I don't have a college degree; I don't have a high school diploma. If I were to start out trying to be a software engineering today, or advising someone to do the same, it feels like the lingua franca of everything today seems to be JavaScript in many different respects. It does front end; it does back end; people love to complain about it, so you know it's valid. To be clear, I find myself befuddled every time I pick it up. I'm not coming at this from a JavaScript fanboy perspective in any respect.The asynchronous execution flow always messes with my head and leaves me with more questions than answers. Is that assessment though—of starting languages—accurate? Are there cases where Java is absolutely the right answer, as far as what to learn first?Angie: Yeah. So, I first started with C++, and then I learned Java. Well, what I find is, Java because it's so strict—it's a statically typed language, and there's lots of rules, and you really need to understand paradigms and stuff like that with this language—it's harder to learn, but once you learn it, it's much easier to pick up other languages, even if they're dynamically typed, you know? So, that's been my experience with this. As far as jobs, so the last time I looked at this, someone did some research and wrote it up—this was 2019—and they looked at the job openings available at the time, and they divided it by language. And Java was at, like, 65,000 jobs open, Python was a close second was 62,000, and JavaScript was third place with 39,000.So, quite a big difference. But if you looked at tech Twitter, you'd think, like, JavaScript is all there is. Most of my followers and folks that I follow are JavaScript folks, front-end folks. So, it is a language I think you definitely need to learn; it's becoming more and more prevalent. If you're going to do any sort of web app, [laugh] you definitely want to know it.So, I'm definitely not saying, “Oh, just learn Java and that's it.” I think there's definitely a need for adding JavaScript to your repertoire. But Java, there does seem to be more jobs, especially the big enterprise-type jobs, in Java.Corey: The reason I ask so much about some of the early-stage stuff is that in your spare time—which it sounds like you have so much of these days—you volunteer with Black Girls Code to help teach coding workshops to young girls in an effort to attract more women and minorities to tech. Which is phenomenal. Few years ago, I was a volunteer instructor for Year Up before people really realized, “Oh, maybe having an instructor who teaches by counterexample isn't necessarily the best approach of teaching folks who are new to the space.”But the curriculum I was given for teaching people how Linux worked and how to build a web servers and the rest, started off with a three-day module on how to use VI, an arcane text editor that no one understands, and the only reason we use it is because we don't know how to quit it.Angie: [laugh].Corey: And that's great and all, but I'm looking at this and my immediate impression was, “We're scrapping that, replacing it with nano,” which is basically what you see is what you get, and something that everyone can understand and appreciate without three days of training. And it felt an awful lot like we're teaching people VI almost as a form of gatekeeping. I'm curious; when you presumably go down the path of teaching people who are brand-new to the space? How do you wind up presenting testing as something that they should start with? Because it feels like a thing you have to know first before you can start building anything at scale, but it resonates, on some level, with feeling like it's, ah, you must be able to learn this religion first; then you'll be able to go and proceed further. How do you square that circle?Angie: Yeah. So, I had the privilege of being an adjunct professor at a college, and I taught Java programming to freshmen. This was really interesting because there's so much to teach, and this is true of all the courses. So, when I say that they don't include it in the curriculum, that's not really that much of a slight on them. Like, it's just so much you have to cover.So I, me, the testing guru, I still couldn't find space to devote an entire sitting, a chapter, or whatever on testing. So, I kind of wove it into my teaching style. So, I would just teach the concept, let's say I'm teaching loops today, and I'll have a little exercise that you do in class. So, we do things together, and then I say, okay, now you try it by yourself. Here's a problem; call me over when you're done.And as they would call me over when they're done, I would break it; I would break their code, right? I'd do some input that they weren't expecting and all of a sudden is broken. And they started expecting me to do this, you know? “She's going to come and she's going to break my stuff.” So, they start thinking themselves, “Let me test it before I give it to my user,” who is Professor Angie, or whatever.So, that's how I taught them that. Same with homework assignments. So, they would submit it, I would treat it like a code review, go through line by line, I didn't have any automated systems to test their homework assignments. I did it like a code review, gave them feedback on how to improve their style, but also I would try to break it and give them, “Here's all the areas that you didn't think of.” So, that was my way of teaching them that quality matters in how to think about beyond the requirement.The requirement is going to say, “Someone needs to be able to log in.” It's not going to give you all of the things that should happen, you know if there's a wrong password, so these are things, as an engineer, you need to think beyond that one line requirement that you've got and realize that this is part of it as well.Corey: So, it's almost a matter of giving people context beyond just the writing of the code, which frankly, seems to be something that's been missing for many aspects of engineering culture for a while, the understanding the people involved, understanding that it is not just you, or your department, or even your company in some cases.Angie: Exactly. And I tried to stress that very heavily in each lecture: who is your end-user? And your end-user cannot see your code, they cannot see your comments in the code that's telling them, “Make sure you input it this way,” or whatever. None of that is seen so you have to be very explicit in your messages, and your intent, and behavior with the end-user.Corey: One last area I wanted to cover with you, when I was doing some research on you before the show, is that you are an IBM Master Inventor, which I had no idea what that was. Is that a term of art? Let me Google it. And it turns out that you have, according to LinkedIn at least, 27 patents in your name. And it's, “Oh.”Yeah, it's one of those areas where you look at something like, what gives someone the hubris to call themselves—or the grounds to call themselves that? And, “Oh, yeah. Oh, they're super accomplished, and they have a demonstrated track record of inventing things that are substantial and meaningful. I guess that would do it.” I'd never heard the term until now. What is that? And how are you that prolific, for lack of a better term?Angie: Yeah, so I used to work at IBM and they're really big on innovation. And I haven't kept track in a while, but for many, many years, they were the number one producer of patents [laugh] of this year or whatever. So, it was kind of in the culture to innovate. Now, I will say, like, a very small percentage of people—employees—there would take it as far as I did to actually go and patent something—[laugh]—Corey: Oh, it's the ‘don't offer if you're not serious,' model.Angie: Yeah. [laugh]. But I mean, it was there; it was a program there where, hey, you got an idea for a software patent? Write it up, we'll have our lawyers, our IP lawyers review it, and then they'll take your little one-page doc and turn it into a twenty-five-page legal document that we submit to the USPTO—United States Patent Trademark Office—who then reviews it and decides if this is novel enough and grants it, or dismisses it. And, “Hey, we'll pay you for these patents. We'll pay for the whole process.” And so I thought, “Heck, why not?”And I kind of got hooked. [laugh]. So, it just so happens that I got a lot of good ideas. And I would collaborate with people from other areas of the business, and it was an excellent way for me to learn about new technologies. If something new was coming out, I would jump on that to explore, play with it, and think about, are there any problems that this technology is not aimed to solve, but if I tweak it in some way, or if I integrate it with some other concept or some other technology, do I get something unique and novel here?And it got to the point where I just started walking through life and as I'm hit with problems—like, I'll give you an example. I'm in the grocery store, right, and this inevitably happens to everyone, what, you choose the wrong line in the grocery store. “This one looks like it's moving, I'm going to go here.” And then the whole time, you're looking to your right, and that line is moving. And you're, like, stuck.Corey: Every single time.Angie: Every time. So, it got—[laugh]—Corey: Toll booths are the same way.Angie: —it got to the point where I started recognizing when I'm frustrated, and say, “This is a problem. How can I use tech to solve this?” And so I, in that problem, I came up with this solution of how I could be able to tell which one of these is the right line to get into. And that consisted of lots of things like scanning the things in everyone's cart. On your cart, you have these smart carts that know what's inside of them, polling the customers' spending or their behavior; so are they going to come up here and send the clerk back to go get cigarettes, or alcohol, or are they going to pull out 50 coupons? Are they going to write a check, which takes longer?So, kind of factoring in all of these habitual behaviors and what's in your cart right now, and determining an overall processing time. And that way, if you display that over each queue, which one would be the fastest to get into. So, things like that is what I started doing and patenting.Corey: Well, my favorite part of that story is that it is clearly a deeply technical insight into this, but you've told the story in a way that someone who is not themselves deeply technical can wrap their heads around. And I just—making sure you're aware of exactly how rare and valuable that particular skill set is. So, often there are people who are so in love with a technology that they cannot explain to another living soul who is not equally in love with that technology. That alone is one of the biggest reasons I wanted to have you on this show was your repeated, demonstrated ability to explain complex things simply in a way that—I know this is anathema for the tech industry—that is not condescending. I come away feeling I understand what you were talking about, now.Angie: Thank you so much. That is one of the skills I pride myself on. When I give talks, I want everyone in that room to understand it, even if they're not technical. And lots of times I've had comments from anyone from, like, the janitor to the folks who are working A/V who, they don't work with computers or anything at all and they've come to me after these talks like, “Okay, I heard a lot of talks in here. Everybody is over my head. I understood everything you said. Thank you.” And yet it's still beneficial to those who are deeply technical as well. Thank you so much for that.Corey: No, it's a very valuable thing and it's what I look for the most. In fact, my last question for you is tying around that exact thing. You have convinced me. I want to learn more about test automation, and learn how this works and with an eye toward possibly one day applying it to some of my crappy nonsense that I'm writing. Other than going on Google and typing in a variety of search terms that will lead me to, probably, a Stack Overflow thread that has been closed as off-topic, but still left up to pollute Google search results, where should I go?Angie: Yeah. So, I've actually started an entire university devoted to testing, and it's called Test Automation Universityand I got my employer, Applitools, to sponsor this, so all of the courses are free.And they are taught by myself as well as other leading experts in the test automation space. So, you know that it's trusted; I vet all of the instructors, I'm very [laugh] involved in going through their material and making sure that it's correct and accurate so the courses are of top quality. We have about a little over 85,000 students at Test Automation University, so you definitely need to become one if you want to learn more about testing. And we cover all of the languages, so Java, JavaScript, Python, Ruby, we have all of the frameworks, we have things around mobile testing, UI testing, unit testing, API testing. So, whatever it is that you need, we got you covered.Corey: You also go further than that; you don't just break it down by language, you break it down by use case. If I—Angie: Yeah.Corey: —look at Python, for example, you've got a Web UI path, you've got an—Angie: Exactly.Corey: API path, you've got a mobile path. It aligns not just with the language but with the use case, in many respects.Angie: Mm-hm.Corey: I'm really glad I asked that question, and we will, of course, include a link to that in the [show notes 00:31:10]. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. If people want to learn more, other than going to Test Automation University, where can they find you?Angie: Mm-hm. So, my website is angiejones.tech—T-E-C-H—and I blog about test automation strategies and techniques there, so lots of good info there. I also keep my calendar of events there, so if you wanted to hear me speak or one of my talks, you can find that information there. And I live on Twitter, so definitely give me a follow. It's @techgirl1908.Corey: And we will, of course, include links to all of that. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and insight. I really appreciate it.Angie: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was fun.Corey: Angie Jones, Java Champion and senior director at Applitools. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a long, ranting, incoherent comment that fails to save because someone on that platform failed to write a test.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

This week’s episode may be considered risqué to some. Jill Devine’s hope is to use this platform to talk about the positive uses of medical marijuana and also provide education to those who would like to learn more about medical marijuana. Please understand this episode is intended to be an educational piece. Always seek the advice of a physician with any questions regarding a medical condition. Jill invited Dr. Jamila Owens-Todd’s on the podcast to discuss medical marijuana. Dr. Jamila Owens-Todd’s career path started with studying the sciences at the University of Missouri-Saint Louis. Jamila completed her university education by obtaining Bachelor degrees in both, Chemistry and French. As a Chemist, she has worked for private industry; government, at the Food and Drug Administration and within the pharmaceutical industry, at a top pharmaceutical company in the Research and Development Department. As a Chemist, she worked with many innovations in pharmaceuticals and understands the method-of-action of plant medicines. Jamila has had significant experience working with controlled substances and understands the care and compliance with dispensing such medicines. Jamila is currently a member of the Minority Cannabis Business Association. She has maintained a successful herbal dispensary in her practice, dispensing CBD and hemp related products. Jamila has recently started formulating her very own hemp/CBD tinctures, using high-quality, Colorado-grown hemp. As an educator, continuing education has been a consistent principle within her practice and provides for her continued knowledge, growth and healing capabilities. Further training has been pursued in many areas of herbal medicine and specifically with The Medical Cannabis Institute (TMCI), ECS Therapeutics and in extensive Integrative Cannabis Modules for Practitioners. She holds multiple cannabis education trainings. Jamila is also Certified and Trained to work in a Medical Cannabis Dispensary. She has joined the BeLeaf Medical team, which is the FIRST vertically integrated medical cannabis company with cultivation, manufacturing, and dispensing locations open and operating. Phytos, their manufacturing brand, passed an extensive series of required inspections from the Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services to commence on their first of two awarded manufacturing licenses granted earlier this year. Phytos is proud to have a female-led team of strong, diverse women managed by Chief Science Officer Dr. Stephanie Cernicek, a PhD Chemist, Research and Development Manager, Dr. Jamila Owens-Todd, ND and Partner Mitch Meyers. BeLeaf Medical is home to SWADE dispensaries, which is 100% focused on education and health: We firmly believe that education is what will transform America’s relationship with cannabis. That’s why we lead with education in everything we do. From the evidence-based science that informs our product development, to our informative approach to customer care at our dispensaries, our goal is to increase the public’s awareness of the ways cannabis can both serve and soothe us. Jill would like to acknowledge and recognize the hard work moms put in on the daily. It can be a thankless job at times, and Jill wants these moms to know their worth, so she created the Supermom Shoutout, brought to you by Addy’s Way. Each recipient will receive a custom designed Supermom t-shirt from Addy’s Way, in addition to the Shoutout. This week’s Supermom Shoutout goes to Angie of St. Louis, MO. Her husband, Josh, nominated her and said: Angie is a Supermom and a half! She grinds every day, especially when she was traveling. She has to take care of actual children (3 to be exact) and then is a wonderful care giver to a sometimes-needy husband. She’s a successful corporate gal and like I said, grinds every day. Angie - YOU are seen and YOU are supported! To nominate a Supermom (or you can nominate yourself) email hello@jilldevine.com. Submit the name of the Supermom, where they're from, and a brief description as to why Jill should shout out this particular Supermom. Two Kids and A Career Website: https://www.jilldevine.com/ Two Kids and A Career Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilldevine/?hl=en Two Kids and A Career Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JillDevineMedia/ Thank you to our sponsor: Blondin Professional Real Estate

Venrock partner Camille Samuels speaks with Angie You, CEO of Amunix, and Rich Heyman, Chairman of the Board, about the dynamics between a CEO and a Chairperson that foster a successful company. You and Heyman dive into the importance of mutual trust and respect between a CEO and the Board, and You shares her passion for people that makes her such a great talent hunter. You shares her experience as an Asian female CEO that has busted through multiple ceilings, and how her supportive friends and network help to make the CEO’s role less lonely. They also discuss how they’ve built an incredibly diverse management team at Amunix and why diversity of thought is so important.

Welcome to this week's mini pick me up episode! This weeks question ties into the AMAZING interview we had with Angie Sanchez about emotions and emotional intelligence. We highly recommend you listen to this interview, which is episode 16, because we're still reeling from it! This week, we're discussing the below quote from Angie: "You get to determine when it end." This in regards to depression, anxiety, or any mental turmoil you may be dealing with. Both of us really resonated with that quote because we BOTH had to make the choice in the past in order to get better. We'd love to hear your thoughts to this quote as well! As always, you can hit us up on the typical channels below! Make sure to subscribe and leave a review. We would really appreciate it! Resources:  Find more silliness & love at beyounothem.co Slide into our DMs on Insta @beyounotthempodcast Connect with us on Facebook

Is being a podcast guest part of your marketing strategy yet? If not, what’s holding you back? I’m gonna take a wild guess that: A) You like listening to podcasts; B) You have a business; and C) You need to get your business in front of potential customers. If any of that is true, then you are not going to want to miss the next couple of episodes I have for you, because they are all about adding podcast-guesting to your marketing strategy. My guest today is Angie Trueblood. She’s a podcast visibility expert, and I met Angie because she’s pitched me on behalf of some of the guests you’ve heard on this show, like Brandi Mowles in Episode 241 about fast-tracking your side hustle growth, Dr. Cortney Baker in Episode 251 about going from side-hustler to CEO and Danielle Hayden in Episode 280 about taking home a bigger paycheck from your side hustle. And now today Angie is on the show to talk about how you can use podcast guesting as a strategy to grow your audience and get customers. Angie and I talk about: Her journey from side-hustle to self-employed. The opportunity podcasts can create for your business. How Angie found clients. Why Angie hired a business coach and how she grew her business. How to stand out from all the other people who are pitching podcast hosts. The six parts of a great pitch. Her best advice for you if you’re struggling to get traction in your side hustle. The one belief Angie had to change about herself to get where she is today. My favorite quotes from Angie: “You don't have to be at some giant stage of business to be featured as a podcast guest and to provide value.” “I think when you do good work and you take good care of your people, it eventually starts to snowball.” “Business is not just marketing, it's managing all of these other behind the scenes things.” Resources mentioned in this episode: Go Pitch Yourself Pitching Roadmap Go Pitch Yourself Podcast Angie’s Bio: As a podcast visibility expert and host of the Go Pitch Yourself podcast, Angie Trueblood knows that the only 'perfect pitch' is the one that leads with value and focuses on building a genuine connection.  Whether she is teaching entrepreneurs how to pitch themselves or working behind the scenes to secure opportunities for others, Angie leverages her super-connector powers to grow businesses and build long-lasting relationships.  When she's not working with her clients or being active in her local community, she loves exploring Richmond, Virginia's parks and playgrounds with her two kiddos, checking out new restaurants with her hubs, and laughing about motherhood with friends. Connect with Angie: Angie Trueblood Website Instagram Facebook Build a website in just 5 days (even if you're not techie) at www.free5daywebsitechallenge.com Learn how to market yourself online without ads, algorithms or spending all your time on social media at www.howtomarketyourselfonline.com Learn how to get your first web design client at www.startafreelancewebdesignbiz.com Leave a Review!

Find out exactly WHY God brought you and your spouse together! https://marriageaftergod.com Quote From Marriage After God "Dreaming together is an exercise that is important for every marriage after God to participate in. Setting goals and casting a vision for the future strengthens the bond between a husband and wife, stirring up hope for what may come." "Casting a vision together for the future of your marriage is an intimate experience where hope for the future stimulates perseverance for today." Prayer Dear Lord, We pray we would be husbands and wives who dream together. We pray the dreams and the goals that we consider are ones that you put in our hearts. We desire to be used by you to fulfill your purposes. We want to build your kingdom and not our own. May we remember to submit our plans to you always. If there are things that we dream up that need to wait or need to be pushed aside, please help us to be humble. Help us to let go of any pride so that we don’t pursue what we want but instead only what you want. May we experience intimacy in marriage as we intentionally consider all that you have for us. We also pray we would have fun as we do this as a team for your glory! In Jesus’ name, amen! READ TRANSCRIPT [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God, [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're in part 13 of the Marriage After God series and we're gonna be talking with Isaac and Angie Tolpin about dreaming together. Welcome to the marriage After God Podcast where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary, one full of life. [Aaron] Love [Jennifer] And power [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we choose boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Jennifer] So, we just wanted to take a moment and just ask you guys to leave us a review. That's just one way that other people will be able to find the Marriage After God podcast and spread the good news. So, if you could just take a moment and leave us a review, you could leave a star rating review or comment review and the comments are great too because they always encourage us. So thank you guys, for those of you who have already done that. [Aaron] And the reason we're doing this series is to promote our new book, Marriage After God. And if you go pick up a copy today that would just make us feel so blessed, is the reason we're doing all these interviews, all these episodes. And it's also how you can support us. And I hope that this book blesses you guys and we wrote it for you. [Jennifer] So today we have our good friends Angie and Isaac Tolpin from the Courageous Parenting podcast. Thank you guys for joining us. [Isaac] So great to be here. [Angie] Yeah, we're really excited to support you guys. [Isaac] And we love the book. [Aaron] Wow. [Isaac] Yeah. [Angie] It's awesome. [Aaron] Thank you. [Jennifer] Well, we just wanted to take a minute right here and just have you introduce yourself to everyone listening. So maybe share how long you been married, how many kids you have, and what you guys do. [Isaac] I'll start off with 19 years. It's been an incredible journey. How many kids Angie? [Angie] We have eight. [Isaac] So and we're in ministry courageousparenting.com. [Angie] And courageousmom.com. [Aaron] Awesome, so you guys have been doing ministry for a long time but now you guys are more specifically doing it together online with this podcast with your website. How did we meet? How did you guys meet because we do fellowship with you guys. A lot of the people we've been interviewing, we actually go to church with. So people like why do they know all these people, well? They go to our church but we met before gone just together [Angie] Yes we did. I think it was when, it was just years ago when Jen and I met because of Redeeming Childbirth. And she was pregnant with Olive at the time. [Aaron] And Redeeming Childbirth is a book you wrote about childbirth and redeeming it with a biblical mindset. [Angie] It's kind of a discipleship tool for women because I cover topics that normal pregnancy books don't cover like pain, fear, marriage from a biblical perspective-- [Isaac] Yeah the spiritual side of it. [Angie] Yeah, how to walk through pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum and young motherhood. [Jennifer] Yeah, and we had just moved to Bend you guys had just moved to Bend and so we met up for coffee and that that was the beginning. [Isaac] It's been a great journey. [Angie] It really has. [Aaron] Yeah, it is, we know how small the world is and how close you can become with someone that you didn't know before, and now you're like, I knew I feel like I've known you forever. [Angie] Now, we are like family. [Jennifer] Okay, so after we share this next story, everyone's gonna wanna be you guys as friends. This is how awesome you are. So we just celebrated an anniversary, our 12th anniversary and we didn't have plans and we're gonna go to dinner and Aaron's like, well, let's invite another couple and you guys were right there. We wanted to spend time with you. And so we invited you to go to dinner and-- [Aaron] To our anniversary dinner. [Jennifer] Yeah and it was gonna be awesome but we didn't know you guys on the way over had prepared questions for us to think about in this year. [Aaron] You use to like what's that game the marriage show where you, the Newlyweds Game? You guys, it's kind of that, you guys asked us all these awesome questions. And it made our date night, it was not just a double date where we just chatted, it was like so much fun. [Angie] It was. [Isaac] That means way we answered those questions, [Jennifer] So is that like normal for you guys or a special? [Isaac] That was the first time plus, you know what, the--- [Angie] So, it was just a special. [Isaac] You're special and anniversaries are so special. [Jennifer] That's true and what a great way to celebrate. And we just love that, it's gonna be a standout one for me, I know that. But I had to share that because I think it was super thoughtful. And for those listening, if you're gonna double date on someone else's anniversary, you should do that. It's time we say, we've got a bunch of questions for you. [Jennifer] Okay, so this leads me into the icebreaker question for today. And it came from one of your guys as questions that you asked us. [Aaron] I think it was the first one you asked us. [Jennifer] So here's the question and it's for you guys to answer. If your spouse was a superhero, who would they be? So you're answering this about each other. [Isaac] Why do you kick it off honey? [Angie] I was thinking about this and I think I choose the whole popular Captain America because when I met when Isaac-- [Aaron] His fist pumping right now. You know, that's right. When Issac and I, 20 years ago, when I met him, he was a new believer and had become a new creation like how Steve Rogers turns into the new creation and then he's just this man of vision that wants to do what's right. And he's a leader that people follow. So there's just a lot of qualities, and he doesn't hide behind a mask. So that, there's the boom. [Jennifer] I love that. Real deal. Cool. Transparency. Yeah. [Isaac] Well, that's cool, I think you're Wonder Woman. Because you are pure. Interesting Yes. And your middle name is Crystal, which means what, honey? [Angie] It means brilliantly clear. Or pure. [Isaac] Angie, you're really good at getting the truth out of people. That's true. Right, she's right. [Jennifer] She is drastic, it's true [Isaac] Exactly, that's all truth, she cares about justice. [Angie] That's true. [Aaron] And she cares about truth. And you have an unbelievable ability to do many things at once which everybody says you're not supposed to be able to do. [Angie] You truly are a super mom. [Isaac] A super mom, that's right. [Aaron] Super mom, it's new superhero I don't know if that show would go very far today. Okay, so Jennifer. [Jennifer] Sorry guys. [Aaron] So Jennifer, what would your superhero be for me? [Jennifer] Okay, so just so everyone knows when we were sitting there that night, the whole time, I was thinking about my answer for you. I was sitting there thinking, please don't say I'm Hulk. Please don't say I'm Hulk. Because out of all the superheroes I was just thinking that's the one that's not like attractive, and he's big and he's angry and I don't wanna be Hulk. And what comes flying out of Aaron's mouth, I think Jen would be Hulk. [Aaron] I did say that. [Jennifer] So, anyways-- [Aaron] But for good reasons, not because you're big and green, and angry. Because you have strength that comes out of you when you need it. And you're smart, and you're intelligent. Now, those were the qualities I was trying to get out of Bruce Banner, okay? [Jennifer] Thank you And then, what did I say for you? Oh, I said, Dr. Strange because you have-- [Aaron] A strange and-- [Jennifer] Yeah, you have gifted discernment and you you know things like-- [Aaron] Yeah, weird things, yeah, weird. [Jennifer] Yeah, that's true. [Aaron] There we go, okay, [Jennifer] Fun little question to ask. You guys can ask each other those listening. It's just fun, I like it, I like ice breakers. [Aaron] So why don't we so as we get into the all the questions we're gonna ask the Tolpins, our good friends. Why don't you read the quote from chapter 13 of the Marriage After God and then we'll get into that. [Jennifer] Okay, it says, dreaming together is an exercise that is important for every marriage after God to participate in, setting goal and casting a vision for the future strengthens the bond between a husband and wife stirring up hope for what may come. [Aaron] Awesome, how does that, does that sound right? Because you guys are dreamers. You guys are excellent at planning. It's when we thought about this chapter, we're like, oh, we have to have the Tolpins [Jennifer] They are like professional goal setters. [Aaron] The ones we interview about this because you are planners and goal setters and dreamers. I don't think you know how to have small dreams. You only know like large, big, like-- [Angie] I'd say Isaac definitely is a bigger dreamer than I am and so a lot of times I find myself running as fast as possible to keep up. [Isaac] And sometimes that's good and sometimes it's not. That's right. Yeah. [Angie] So we've learned over the years to be able to tell where each other are at and be there to support each other, it's been-- [Isaac] But I think it's vital as a marriage to have vision, we are called to have vision and to look ahead, otherwise, we just get sucked into the circumstances of the day and stuck in the mundane. And it's important to have vision. [Angie] And there isn't a lot of growth when you're just sitting there without vision either. So it's one of the things that I think has made us really enjoy marriage and life is just always looking forward to how we can be growing ad what's next, and looking forward. Isaac always makes this joke when his birthday comes around that he doesn't like looking back. He likes getting older. He doesn't care that he getting older too. Oh, it's the best thing. I like getting older too Oh, Yeah He just loves it. [Aaron] People really don't wanna stay young. I wanna, I can't wait to be gray haired. [Isaac] Yeah, wisdom, you get to see your kids get older, more experiences, you've learned more. [Angie] But one of the things that he said about that that's always stuck with me and challenges me because I'm not naturally like that is that if you're focused so much on the past, then you're not gonna be growing. You're always wanting what you had. And so it's just a challenge to look forward and it's a good challenge. [Jennifer] That's awesome, so, have you guys always been dreamers and goal setters in your marriage like from the very beginning? Or is it something that kind of developed over time? [Isaac] I would say that it was from early on actually. And in business, I've always played a proactive role in helping people have goals and vision, and so forth is really important. And I think, you know, husbands need to apply that to their marriages into their family. And I think it's super important. So we have done it early on. Of course, it's evolved over time. [Angie] Yeah, for sure. And now we involve our kids in it too, which we'll talked about later but-- [Aaron] Yeah, we love that because you're teaching them how to be in the moment, and do what needs to be done but also look ahead and prepare. So you've always been dreamers, you've always been planners but have you said it's evolved. What are some of the ways that it's changed over time, the way you used to plan, dream? [Angie] Well, you know what, Isaac actually, I haven't said this him out loud but I think he's actually the one who really taught me how to set goals. Because I worked for him when we met, that's how we met. And I was an independent contractor and had to set sales goals and different things like that. And he would coach the team through how to do that. And we just kind of took that into our personal life because it was so productive. And we saw good results from it. So we started applying it to life and other areas. [Isaac] There's a principle called the napkin talk in leadership, and I just took that same principle to our date nights. Not every single one, sometimes we just hanging out. We do do that. [Angie] I don't see, but we really absolutely enjoy it. [Isaac] But we really love, so we almost have to force ourselves just to go hang out sometimes, but we-- [Angie] We actually had friends who were like, don't you guys just go and like sit? [Isaac] Yeah, we do, we like that, but the napkin talk, I mean which means you pull out a napkin, you have a pen, you write down some goals, and you write down some initiatives, and there's an incredible power when you actually put thoughts to paper. I don't know what happens but it activates action in your lives and in your marriage. And I think that's really important. [Jennifer] I feel like there's a really good practical tip for people listening if this is something that they really haven't done in their marriage, or maybe they've done it in the past, but haven't done it recently, getting out that napkin, getting out that piece of paper, even after listening to this episode and just go for it. It's the kind of place to start brain dump and just get it out of your mind, out of your heart, and onto the paper. [Isaac] And I think you just think of one or two really good questions, it can be that simple. [Aaron] So, I just wanna, I love those tips, the napkin, what was it called, napkin talk? Where you just write down on a napkin and that's awesome. We do something similar. We don't ever do a napkin but we bring a pad or we bring a pad or we do it on our phone, or send ourselves an email. [Jennifer] Actually I have used napkins before. [Aaron] Yeah, I think you have, that's it or worse we get some receipt paper please. [Isaac] Yeah, exactly, whatever. [Isaac] Yeah, whatever you can. But I just wanna real quick highlight why we've been talking about dreaming. And we're talking about this idea of planning together because in this part of the book, we're encouraging marriages to take all of the things we've talked about up to this point, and actually start getting it out of their hearts, and minds and onto paper. Because once we do that, once we have it out on paper. You said, the power of goal setting, there's every single productivity book or success book has some form of write it down, put a checklist, have a to do list. And there's a reason for that is because once it's written down, it's a real thing. It becomes a, oh, that's actually visible and now I'm not the only one who is thinking about it. [Isaac] So true. [Aaron] Other people can see it, my kids can see, my wife can see it and now I can pray about it. And so I just, I just wanna highlight, that's why we're having this conversation is not just to like, let's have big dreams and shoot for the moon. And, but there's a there's a mission involved in what we're doing. So, that we're proactively use that word proactive, we're proactively chasing after God's will for our life and sometimes and oftentimes it takes dumping all of the things that are in our hearts and minds as a couple onto paper into notes and be like, okay, what does this look like in our life? How are we gonna get to from A to B? What is B, so I just wanted to bring that up and then, so that we all know, everyone that's listening is like, oh, like, that's why we dream, like that's why we plan. [Isaac] I think we're wired for progress too. And so when you're able to look at the end of the year, how you've made progress together, and the things you've accomplished together, it's so rewarding. [Angie] And do you have dreams when you first get married. You dream about your life together. And you may think about specific goals, even then, from when we were just engaged to newlyweds. And it's exciting to keep that going. I think it helps you tonight and become stagnant, like you're saying or becoming a marriage is just surviving but instead, you're thriving. And I think that the first few years that we were married too, the napkin talks, a lot of times were Isaac asking specifically how I was doing in my relationship with God, how I was doing in my relationships with my kids, and that this would become an opportunity for us to communicate about what was going on in their hearts and what I was seeing during the day so that he would know how he could back me up when he was at home or what their needs were, so that we could be a better team when he was off work and on the weekends because he worked during the day, [Isaac] It's so crucial because as husbands, if we want our wives' support, then we better be proactively supporting our wives. What things in our career do we want support with? Well, you're not gonna get it unless you've been proactively all along the way, supporting your wife and the things that really matter. [Angie] And I remember there was a time too, someone asked us years ago because Isaac would shoot for huge goals business wise, and he would hit them. And one of the wives of another manager came up to me and just said, wow, you must have to work so hard at home. Is he working all the time? And I said, well, he does work hard, butt we work together and it's a team, we're a team. [Aaron] It's a good little insight. [Angie] Yeah and in, she just kind of looked at me like, oh, and and I remember like we would go out and if Isaac had a goal for work, like if I was gonna shoot for a different amount of sales, let's say you're in sales, he'd always run that by me first at one of our visionary date nights. And he would say, hey, this is what it might end up costing us like, this much extra time, are you in? Are we, do we wanna do it? So it wasn't just him doing it? [Isaac] And then you being pulled along. [Angie] Right and so even though he was running a business and I was a stay at home mom, I felt so cherished and involved in his business because he was involving me in the dreaming process, and just sharing with me even those goals. And then years went by of us doing that. And one night, he just out of nowhere said Do you have dreams that we're not pursuing together? And then that's where Redeeming Childbirth came in and like, oh, in him encouraging me to have a blog. And so it's important that you both are drawing that out of each other. [Aaron] Well, and I think I saw in a second one ask you about the visionary date night thing. We'll get into that but you said that he would invite you in, involve you. I feel like you probably felt that way but it's even more than that. It sounds like you were a linchpin in the process where it not just being involved in like, hey, what do you think about this idea. It's more of a this goal won't work unless we're on the same page. [Isaac] It's crucial, it's crucial, because if the plan doesn't go well, and you didn't from the beginning decide to do it together, guess who your detractors going to be later? The wife, you can't accomplish big things by yourself. And if you set out to do things then they don't go well, it could harm the marriage, if you didn't set out to do it together. [Aaron] Well, and we talked about this a lot in the book is like, it starts without unity anyway. Like, if you're only doing it for if you're chasing after something and she's chasing after something, what are you doing? You're pulling against each other, and you never gonna get anywhere. [Angie] You won't be effective. [Isaac] No, and so you coming to your wife and it's not a permission based thing, it's purely a, we're one. This will only work if we're on the same page so that you show me where it's not gonna work, and let's figure out how to make it work. And not just in business but like, I love that you guys talked about children. And it actually in this chapter, we talk about the different categories that we could be submitting to the Lord and dreaming in. So when it comes to like children and raising our children and discipleship like, hey, what are some of the visions that we have? And it could be as simple-- For our kids. [Angie] as what character qualities do we see already being cultivated in this child? What is God drawing out of them? And how can we encourage that more? What are some of the flaws that maybe we need to work on? And so there's also those kinds of visions and goals with each child to those were always at the forefront of our family, visionary, and time for sure. [Isaac] Well, we would even write down each child's name and go, what does each child need? [Angie] And there were times to where we would evaluate like do we need to have special one on one time with each child like on a regular basis, like for a period of time to deal with a specific topic? So there are so many ways you could go about this. [Jennifer] That's so cool, and when I think about this chapter of the book and the reason why we wanted to encourage couples to do this very thing of dreaming together and talking about these kinds of things is because it is a really intimate experience because you have to communicate, you have to share your hearts with one another. And that's what I'm hearing. [Aaron] You are really transparent. Jennifer] You have to be transparent, you have to have a insights, you have to know your children, you have to know each other. And I just see how unity is built. Trust is built, love is cultivated when a husband and wife intentionally pursue moments like this together. [Aaron] Absolutely, so there's a quote in the book, it says this. Casting a vision together for the future of your marriage is an intimate experience where hope for the future stimulates perseverance for today. How has this been true in your guys' life? [Angie] Oh, I feel like that quote totally suits for the season that we just been in. [Isaac] We've gone through ups and some really tough times too, ups and downs, for sure. And it has been so crucial to have vision and a godly perspective and putting God at the center of our marriage as we go through the challenging times. [Angie] And really that our goals are centered on Him too. I think that that's the thing that keeps you going. He's the hope and when you know that what you're pursuing is for Him and it's not for gain in anything else then it gives you the hope to keep going every day. And you don't focus so much on the circumstances that you might be in. [Isaac] And we're called to not be of this world, be in the world but not of the world. And that goes for marriage. And so our marriage is a witness to the world. And what a great testimony during the hard times when we just grow closer together. [Jennifer] Amen, love that. [Aaron] Yeah, so you were just mentioning about like, they're like for God and human being in the center and Christ being our hope. And that's everything we want people to recognize but when we say dreaming, often we think like, we have lots of dreams. You said when you were married, you had lots of dreams. There's lots of people thinking, I want a big house, or I want to live in this location, or like we have this many dreams. And I'm not saying any of them are bad. But I wanna know, how do we set biblical boundaries? On our dream in planning, because we definitely could like dream of anything, doesn't mean anything should be done? [Angie] I think that that's one of the benefits of having marriage too is that you can hold each other accountable because there will be times you'll both need it, right? [Jennifer] So good. [Angie] And I think that also when it comes to boundaries, I have specific boundaries that I have set for how I react when he shares his dreams because he's a big dreamer. [Aaron] When is really big enough? [Angie] Yeah, I kind of hold my breath for a minute. Three deep breaths. because I'm like, okay, that's really big. [Isaac] Because she thinks we're for sure doing it because I speak with authority, even though I am just sharing ideas that haven't even been fleshed out yet. [Angie] Yes, and so we've had to learn that about each other. And so he always is really, he's a gentle leader with me in that that he'll remind me ahead of time and say, so I don't wanna do this right now but I was thinking, X, Y, Z. [Isaac] That's only after learning for a few years, in our first two years of marriage. [Aaron] Well then ever went to listening husbands. This is a great tip. Hey, this isn't happening right now or even soon but I'm thinking about doing X, Y, Z. That's a great way to prep your wife for a big conversation. [Angie] It totally is. And then it kind of gives me some time to like let it settle, think about it. And then I don't overreact because we had done a lot of really big things together in business and in planning a vineyard. And we had, yeah, we had six of them in those 10 years. So we really had done a lot. And so, his track record led me to believe that every time you had a dream it had to happen. [Aaron] Because it's been that way. [Isaac] Yeah, and if you want your wife's support then you've got a pre-frame ahead of time like that because otherwise, when I was shared dream without pre-framing it, she would instantly sometimes look for the challenge where I'm too optimistic, she's more realistic. And that's why God put us together, because the differences are such a blessing when you embrace those differences and you respect each other. [Aaron] It's almost like God had a plan for your marriage. [Angie] Amazing, right? [Jennifer] And something that I'm hearing as you guys talk or is that this practice of dreaming together is also practicing communication and learning each other. And so another tip for those listening is learn each other, figure out how each other's going to receive things and adapt your relationship so that you guys can work together as a team and not always end up in arguments or disappointments. [Angie] One tip in that direction is that timing is everything which is one of the reasons why I think our date nights were so successful. It wasn't in the heat of the household. [Isaac] Chaos. [Angie] You know what I'm saying and so-- [Isaac] Handling are you making dinner for our children and me and I thought about this idea. [Angie] Exactly, and I thought you would. [Isaac] So husbands, it's super important to think about the timing of when to bring certain things up, challenges, good things, dreams. And sometimes you're gonna save a list for your date nights, it's super important. [Jennifer] Angie, could you just share to the wives timing for when you're sharing things with your husband, maybe what does it look like on a wife's end? [Angie] On a wife's end regarding the dreams since-- [Jennifer] Timing. [Angie] So right away, when they come home from work if they're someone who's working away from home not a good time to talk to them. Give them some time to so and and I think that night times are actually good after the kids have gone to bed. That's also a good time to talk about it, I wouldn't suggest that for the wives though as much because we just kind of are starting to relax and then it's brought up it can create some anxiety for some women. But the guys generally can handle that but you would have to judge your spouse. [Jennifer] Yeah, for sure. [Angie] But I think that they appreciate us being considerate to them in the same regard that we appreciate being considered. [Aaron] So I have this thought about, we talk about boundaries because like we can dream again of anything but what is God one, and building a, this is for me and for you guys, and everyone that's listening. Beginning to build a track record where we as individuals, as a husband and a wife, and as a marriage, submit everything to the Lord. Instead of like, hey, I have this idea. Let's sell the house and let's move over across country and start a this organization. And everyone's like, whoa, whoa, what? What are you talking about? But having a track record of like, hey, here's an idea. Let's start praying about this today and see what happens. And then learning how to follow through with things or learning how to say no to things after it's been evaluated, prayed through and sought out with counsel, so that when a husband brings up an idea, there's not this fear of like, well, is this going to end up like what happened last time where we're going to change that do something and then fall on our face, and then have to start over again, and then chase after something that follows. Does that make sense? [Isaac] It makes perfect sense. And just because something is good fruit doesn't mean it's fruit we're supposed to pick. So it's really important to have God at the center and be praying about it. It's like in the vineyard, if you have a whole bunch of fruit on a plant, you can't leave all that fruit there. Otherwise, it's gonna make bad wine. But if you cut half of it off, all the energy goes into the right fruit that we're supposed to pick, and it makes great wine. And that's the same thing for a marriage. [Jennifer] I love that. So when dreaming together, there's going to be times where there's gonna be awesome things that come that come up and get on the list that you probably can't pursue, or maybe the timings not there, and you guys have to navigate that together. [Angie] And I think sometimes too, depending on if you're a natural dreamer and you like to dream about a lot of things, sometimes it's not God's will for your life. And that's where you have to be willing to dream but be willing for God to say no. Or to say, no, not now. Because sometimes that's His answer too. And so and that's part of why I think that he's given us protection and having a spouse because we can kind of ground one another in the times when we need to. But we can also be one another's biggest cheerleader in those times when we know God's pushing us forward. [Isaac] And that's crucial 'cause husbands if you get off track, and you're not listening to God and you're in the flesh, and you just go and do something, it could be catastrophic for your family. And I have an experience where we went all in on a business venture, and it failed. And we lost everything financially for a period of time. And that was my responsibility. Now, my wife faithfully supported me, followed me through the challenges, and through the good times but that was directly a cost of me being confused and not paying attention to what God wanted. [Aaron] Oh, it's awesome that you can you can see that. And for those that are listening can learn from what you guys walked through. So that gift that God gave you, that that resource that he's given you that story is now a testimony that can warn other believers. [Angie] Yeah, we have lots of stories like that was a good story [Isaac] Oh, we do. Winning and losing. [Angie] That's right. [Jennifer] Speaking of winning, what are kingdom benefits of dreaming together and setting goals? [Isaac] Well, I think the first Kingdom benefit is your kids are watching everything you're doing. And if you're trusting God, and surrendering everything to God and working as a team together, you're modeling for them for their future marriages because what we're raising future adults, right? [Angie] That's right, yeah. And we also want them to see us pursuing God's dreams and His visions and being workers in His fields also. And so, right now with Courageous Parenting, this is a new thing that we're working together in ministry, I've been doing it for many years. And Isaac, of course, was always a missionary wherever he was, but now we're full in with Courageous Parenting. And it's a different feel around the house, everybody is involved, everybody helps out in some way from Austin helping to edit podcasts to Megan helping with the baby, and it's just, and they're behind it. That's the cool thing is that they see the vision because they wanna see other parents get impacted and they are constantly encouraging us too so. [Isaac] And I think if God is for something, it's gonna have some impact on the kingdom of God and so that's the fruit too. [Aaron] And so it's constantly saying, Okay, Lord, what do you want? Here's what we have and here's ideas that we have. How does this work into your plan? [Angie] It's really about stewardship. Actually, all of the goal setting and everything is all about stewarding. I love that. Our hearts, our lives, our children, Our resources. [Angie] All our resources. And so I remember when we had the vineyard before we planted and cultivated the vineyard in our other property, we would look out at this field and go, what should we plant there? And we would pray about it, we'd dream about it. And we thought, all different kinds of ideas. And we did have a vision for hosting weddings there one day and different things like that. But God moved us on to a different vision which I'm glad that we're here. It was definitely God's will for us to move, but yeah. [Aaron] So, I think of this, I can't remember the how the quote exactly goes but the answer is no to 100% of the questions you never asked, right. [Isaac] Yeah. [Aaron] Because like if you don't ask her you can't get a yes or no. So it's just a no. And I feel like that's how we should see this idea of dreaming as a couple as marriages for the kingdom of God and saying, okay, Lord, we have this amount of resources, we have these relationships, we have these talents and gifts that you've given us. Man, we could do this, we combine this, and just throw it all out, and then start praying over it which is what how we we direct the readers and what to do when they dream. And then start making actions. So what's a practical way that you guys dream and then plan, like okay, here's a dream and we've actually feel like this is where God's leading us [Angie] Always involves a whiteboard. [Aaron] Turn aways because they are-- [Isaac] Whiteboard or journal, I think you start on a whiteboard, afterwards ends up on a whiteboard. But yeah, I think it's so important to get things on paper, pray over it, of course, and then really vet it out and have some action steps towards it and understand each other's roles. There was some dreams where Angie's role was to praise and be supportive and take care of the family while I was doing something. There's other dreams we've done where we're both very, very active and immersed together in it. [Angie] And then there were times where Isaac would take care of the kids so that I could write and he was more active with the kids in the vineyard and taking that on, and then I would pull back away from that once that project was done. And I was all in and he would be able to slip away more towards work. And so it's kind of a dance. [Isaac] But it's so important. [Aaron] I love that idea of a dance. [Isaac] Dance, so important to have good communication, though, because things are constantly moving. [Aaron] I think a part of that good communication is having end zones. Small, like if it was just an indefinite like, hey, you're gonna watch the kids and I'm gonna write, and who knows when, that wouldn't be a healthy season. [Angie] No, you do have to have boundaries. [Aaron] So, you set boundaries and then it wouldn't be how easy is it of, if Isaac said, hey, I'm gonna be working 12 hour days for the next, who knows how long and let's see what happens. That wouldn't be a healthy. [Isaac] Here's a super important point to that which is husbands when you set a deadline for how long the sacrifice is gonna be, you better deliver. Because if you go past that deadline, your wife is gonna lose trust for you as you dream together-- [Aaron] Track record. [Isaac] There's a cost. [Aaron] You wanna have good track records within this process. [Jennifer] Any want your word to be as good as gold. [Angie] Yeah, that's awesome and what I'm thinking when you guys are sharing all this is details. So when you're writing this down when you're making an action plan or strategy put some details and dates and times, and very specific things that will help guide these boundaries. [Aaron] That's good baby. [Isaac] That's was really good. [Aaron] So, as we come to a close, I want to ask you, it's so easy to just say, We're gonna be big dreamers and big planners, and we're gonna get all these practical steps and... What is the foundational perspective biblically that we should have in all of this because the Bible talks about planning. [Angie] And He talks a lot about our marriage, I think it comes down to what our marriages really for, God. [Isaac] To glorify God. [Angie] It's not about us. And so when you realize that your marriage isn't about you, and that it's meant to be a light to the world, and that you are bearing God's image to them, your perspective changes and that's for all of us. It doesn't matter what you're doing for work or if you're in ministry, we are all part of the body of Christ. And we all-- We're all in ministry, this is our, yeah. Exactly. Everyone is a missionary wherever they are. They're all lights and ambassadors. [Isaac] Yeah, it's to fulfill the greatest, the Great Commission, and to glorify God in everything we do, and we've always believed that the things we're gonna do, it's gotta have some kind of positive impact on people. And that doesn't need because every-- [Aaron] When you say positive, do you mean like in a faith way and in a biblical way? [Isaac] In a biblical, faith focused way. And I'm not saying everybody, every goal has to be like that. But I've had goals that weren't, like investing in resources, and I lost deeply. And I did not get my wife's approval. [Aaron] That's for another podcast. [Isaac] It's for another but I just want to warn you that God is in control, and we should fear Him, and not the world. And really obey him by our actions. [Angie] I think too, we mentioned stewardship, and one of the verses that comes to mind is about our treasures and building treasures in heaven. And I think that as we're setting goals as a couple, and we're remembering these foundational truths about marriage that we keep in the back of our minds that we're building for Him, and we're building for the kingdom of God in heaven because we're partnering with Him and the Great Commission and-- [Isaac] So good. [Angie] And that we're gonna experience pushback because whenever you do something that God's calling you to do, you're gonna experience some pushback. We have enemies, we have our own flesh And God cares about our sanctity through the process of the journey of life as well and so hard dreams are good because they bring out those things that need to be sanctified in you. [Isaac] Yeah, I mean, often I have said if you're not salty, you might not even realize there's a battle. But if you are salty, you're fully aware because you feel it. And there is a spiritual battle at hand. And as you press in and set goals together and try, and do things for God's glory, there is an enemy that hates that. The good news is God is way more powerful. but you need to be aware, and you need to pray. [Aaron] So, do you guys, in all of these conversations we have there just can be an inkling of, well, that's good for you. And I understand that God's got this call because we use this idea of call. Is there anyone in the body of Christ that's exempt from the things you're talking about? [Isaac] Not at all, you could be doing any position, it be in any kind of circumstances, any kind of financial situation. And it's the same truth for every married couple. [Angie] And the reason why is because God wants people, He wants their hearts, He wants to be reconciled to everyone. And so He may place you in a place that's really hard. But I think that God would ask of you to think big, think and view them the way He views them, and would He want you to have a goal or a dream that's gonna impact that other co-worker that's in the cubicle next to you. [Isaac] I would also say there's nothing worse than when you go out to dinner and you see couples not talking to each other, or looking at their phones, ignoring each other. And that potentially, is because they're not making progress together and doing things for God as a team. [Aaron] And I feel like, Jen, you might be able to speak into this a little bit, that setting, you said heavenly treasure like treasures in heaven, treasures above. The Bible tells us to look above to think on things above and not on things that on earth, and setting goals and pursuing heavenly things and always looking up. When I think of those couples that are sitting and not looking each other, it's because they are only looking in one direction, which is down, because we're not up, we are of the Earth currently. And I feel like that pursuing as a marriage, do you feel like as we consistently look up, it keeps our focuses off of us? [Angie] Yeah, yeah, totally. [Aaron] And that's what we wanna encourage everyone listening is this isn't just because we want plan that million dollar orphanage in another country that might be absolutely someone's calling in, and we gotta ask for them. But it's just the fact that we have we a heavenly calling. All of us as believers, we were part of the body of Christ. And that body is doing something and it's it's led by the by the head Jesus. [Jennifer] We all have gifts and to know those gifts in one another and call them out and say, hey, have you ever thought of like, I would have never even started a blog if it wasn't for Isaac starting it for me and saying here, you should write. I mean that's really your gift. [Isaac] You use your gift, here you go. [Angie] He kind of did that. I mean, this was way back before we had cellphones. He was crazy about the internet just came out sponsor. [Aaron] Oh man. [Isaac] Man, I think what happened is I said, you should start a blog, and you're like, oh, no. Some of you should start a blog, oh, no. Okay, I'm starting a blog, and I started a blog. [Angie] You edited it. [Isaac] And I started a blog, and I'm writing, I'm writing and the only reason I started a blog was so that she was started blog. And that's how she started hers. [Jennifer] Did he buy a book? That is actually, no. [Jennifer] That's awesome, before we wrap up, I really want our listeners to benefit from your guys' wisdom on parenting. And so I just wanna ask the question, how have you guys incorporated dreaming together as a family with your children? [Isaac] I think it's so important to include your kids in the process. It's fun. It is really fun. And one of the interesting things is that everybody has New Year plans and so forth. We just started start those more toward November going into the new year. And what we do is we run a session with the kids and we go, how did this year go? We have them. [Aaron] Is there a whiteboard involved? There's a whiteboard. Yes. [Isaac] And we have them rate the different areas of life, spiritual. [Angie] How did they do in that category? [Isaac] Yeah and we talked about it. And then then we do another session where they set intentions for the new year. And we just still got the-- [Aaron] I like intensions, it's better than resolutions. [Isaac] Yeah, intentions is good. [Angie] It good intentions and Isaac always takes a picture after they have shared what they are, and takes a picture so that he can put it up on the screen the next year. And he also kind of texts us randomly throughout the year goes, how are you doing on your goals? [Jennifer] Wow, [Angie] It's really for-- [Jennifer] Seriously, that's awesome. [Angie] Yeah, our oldest daughter, Kelsey, is at college and she actually just texted me a picture of her goals that are on her wall next to her bed. That was a huge win. So even like, all the kids really enjoy it, even our three year olds had goals this year to stay potty trained and get candy. [Isaac] What's awesome for that is-- [Jennifer] I would like to get candy bars. [Isaac] When they rate different areas of their life. It's so neat to see all the kids in the family rallying for them, no, you're more like an A, you are not a C. You're not-- [Isaac] It's awesome. [Angie] It was really encouraging because they would all give feedback and and say, oh, well, have you thought about this goal? And they would like add on to it and so it was really fun. [Isaac] Self evaluation is an incredible gift. [Jennifer] And it sounds like it doesn't matter what age children? [Angie] No, I mean, Eli was with us and he's four months old That's awesome. He was adamant. Sometimes in our age. [Angie] Self training. [Aaron] Taking solid foods, stay cute. [Jennifer] Awesome, thank you guys so much for your insight there. I know that it just is blessing everyone, everyone's probably gonna wanna redo all their-- Resolutions. --new goals for 2019. Okay, so the last question we have for you is, in your own words, what is a marriage after God? [Angie] Well, I think that we kind of talked a little bit about it before, just that our marriage would reveal the image of God to everyone, to our children to the world around us. And that we'd be striving to one another. One of the images that comes to my mind is in life trials because we have definitely experienced those in 19 years of marriage. When you're both chasing after God or running after him in that hard time I think you're gonna meet there and you're gonna be stronger versus if you're-- [Isaac] Stronger together. [Angie] Versus like if a husband loses a job or a wife is ill, or you could name whatever trial you're walking through, if one person starts working harder to fix the problem versus running to God first, there's a difference in how your marriage is revealed to your kids and the strength of marriage. [Isaac] And then when we say our wedding vows, almost everybody has in their wedding vows or some part of the marriage ceremony is to become one flesh. And do you really believe that? Well, if you do, then you're going to treat your bride or your husband like they are yourself. Because we really do become one. And when you become one, like Angie said, you become way more powerful for the impact for the kingdom of God. And we've always held that as the most important vision. [Jennifer] Well that was incredible. I could just listen to you guys all night, and that's awesome. [Isaac] Well, if people want to, they can go find them at courageousparenting.com, or through their podcast, Courageous Parenting but you can get anywhere podcasts are. And they should definitely go check out their podcast because we don't talk nearly enough about parenting. And that's all they talk about, like this. They talked about the painting like-- [Jennifer] This is we glean all of our needed parenting. [Aaron] You guys have blessed us over the years by your gift of knowledge and parenting, your wisdom in parenting. And so we've been totally blessed by that. So not just the planning stuff that we've seen in your life, but all aspects of your life we've been blessed by, so thank you for honoring us and blessing us by coming on our show. [Isaac] We've been so blessed by your friendship and love what's happening with the ministry here. [Aaron] Yeah, thank you. [Jennifer] I also wanna mention you guys are really active on social media. So where can people find you if they wanna follow you daily? [Isaac] Courageous Parenting and-- [Angie] Courageous Mom. [Isaac] And Resolute Man. [Angie] Yeah, so on Instagram, that's where we're the most active for sure, I'm courageous.mom and he's resolute.man. And then on Facebook. [Aaron] Awesome, so, at the end of every episode, we end in prayer. So if you guys wanna join me in prayer? [Isaac] Yeah. [Aaron] Dear Lord, we pray would be husbands and wives who dream together. We pray the dreams and the goals that we consider are ones that you put in our hearts. We desire to be used by you to fulfill your purposes. We wanna build your kingdom and not our own. And we remember to submit our plans to you always. There are things that we dream up that need to wait or need to be pushed aside, please help us to be humble. Help us to let go of any pride so that we don't pursue what of we want but instead only what you want. May we experience intimacy in marriage as we intentionally consider all that you have for us. We also pray we would have fun as we do this as a team for your glory. In Jesus name. [All] Amen. [Aaron] So, we just wanna thank everyone for listening. This has been part 13 in this 16 part series. There's a couple more, there's a few more awesome interviews coming up. So, I hope have you guys next week. Thank you for joining us. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at Marriage After God calm and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary an marriage.

Angie Coleman joins us on the show to tell us how to put the self back in self-care! The tech aficionado is the founder of Reboot America and the Director of Community at Lesbians Who Tech. She joins us on the show to talk about reaching health goals, disconnecting once in a while, and relying on your team to pick up extra work while you’re away on vacation. Angie also unpacks how she approaches self-care, particularly by way of creating challenges for herself. She argues that our fast-paced culture makes us feel bad for taking care of ourselves. Self-care then becomes a competition, not just with ourselves, but with our peers on social media. Want to hear more from Angie? You can connect with her on Instagram and Twitter. If you want to keep up with more of her projects, be sure to check out her website and follow the Lesbians Who Tech on Twitter and Instagram. As always, you can find this episode and much more on our Twitter and Instagram at @SelfCareSundays and on Facebook at @SelfCareSundaysPodcast. This episode can also be found on Spotify, GooglePlay and RadioPublic. The transcription for this episode is available here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJCj0_DLPYI9qa5tW2F6PYq0R0Od9O1B29sk4K33rT8/edit?usp=sharing

Angie Delamore is a wife, mom, Registered Nurse and health advocate. She's participated in and finished four marathons and one Olympic Distance Triathlon. On today's show she shares about finding the treasure in each and every day which is something she's while parenting her son 13 year old son JC who's battled leukemia multiple times since he was 2 years old. Angie's heart's desire is to meet people where they're at and love them through their journey.  Testimony (2:28)  Angie shares how being raised both Southern Baptist and Catholic has given her a unique understanding about "church." God's Mercy & Grace (9:00)  Angie answers the question she hears often, "How do you do it?" Her answer is always, "God's mercy and grace in the moment." The wisdom she's learned in life is to focus on the now. When she focuses on the past she starts feeling depressed. When she focuses on the future she's filled with anxiety but when she focuses on the present she's able to open her heart to God's mercy and can find joy in the moment. JC's Story (13:13)  Angie opens up about JC's story of him first being diagnosed with leukemia at the age of two up until now at the age of 13. JC has had 6 relapses and 7 diagnoses.  Comfort In The Now  (21:08) Journaling and writing about JC's story is therapeutic for Angie. She knows God has something for her in the form of writing but she's waiting on him to show her what and when. Other Dynamics (26:41) Over the years the Lord's provision has kept them out of bankruptcy which is all too often the case with medical expenses of this magnitude. Angie talks about some of the ways bills have come in and within hours they'll receive a check or money that's nearly right down to the penny of a medical bill.  The Present (38:45) Angie addresses JC's present and most recent diagnosis and how others can come alongside them.  Unite In Prayer (43:20) Join Angie and I in prayer!  Get In Touch  Want to get in touch with Angie? You can connect with her on Facebook here or here. Also on Instagram. 

Angie and Trevor from Marathon Training Academy have really set the gold standard when it comes to running podcasts. I have listened to them for years, and have had the luxury of being on their podcast twice. They are so easy to chat to, and I always end up laughing my way through. This time was no exception, but through all the laughs, they give lots of great advice, especially for beginner runners hoping to race their first marathon. We talk about everything from what qualifies you as a real runner to what to tell yourself when you are in the starting area of a race to make sure nerves do not overtake you. We talk about how to make sure running does not become your whole identity, and why we need to stop trying to keep up with people we admire, and instead look into our own lives and what we can do to be our best runner. Oh, and in case you are wondering, Trevor does have a website, and does love the Tupelo marathon (you will see what I mean when you listen in!) This is for you if you love to travel and race marathons. Angie and Trevor give lots of suggestions for marathons to try if you are looking for something different, as well as advice for newer runners getting ready for their first marathon. Today's Guest Angie and Trevor from Marathon Training Academy The Marathon Training Academy podcast is one of the best known running podcasts out there. I interview the hosts and running celebrities to pick their brains about the best advice for runners they have learned through the seven years they have been hosting the podcast and racing marathons. What You Will Learn About Angie and Trevor's favorite, weirdest, best post race food, toughest marathon What makes you a real runner? What do you need to do to qualify as a runner? Why putting cues in your environment will help you stay committed How to stop running becoming your whole identity Why our egos get us in trouble How to handle pre race nerves   Inspirational Quotes You can gut your way through a 5k, especially if you are not trying to run the top speed, training for a half marathon is challenging but if you look at the marathon, less than 1% of the population will complete a marathon in their lifetime.- Angie It's a daunting challenge, it's an epic challenge, but it is one that is within reach to most people, that really makes it unique. - Trevor There is something to be said about respecting the distance of a marathon. no matter how many you have run, you could go out there one day and run a marathon and it just humbles you, so much could go wrong. -Trevor If you have run marathons, you have this superpower to the larger population around you. -Trevor If you do any amount of running and you identify yourself as a runner, you are a runner. There isn't any level you have to attain. -Angie You are a runner if you decide to be and you begin to form that identity, and then running becomes easier because if you identify as a runner, you are going to be more prone to get your shoes on, lace them up, and go out there, as you want to live in congruency with your identity.- Trevor Ego gets us in trouble when we take a good thing, like running, and make it into an ultimate thing, so that so much of our self-worth and feelings about ourself is based on that area. It can be crushing if you start to experience setbacks, in your pursuit to reaching that ultimate thing we set for ourselves. -Trevor Whatever happens during the race, it is still really amazing that you get to be there and so many people wish they could be in that position, gratitude is such a big part of it.- Angie Resources Mentioned Kentucky Derby Marathon Marathon Training Academy New Orleans Marathon Marine Corps Marathon Shadow of the Giants 50k Tupelo Marathon Missoula Marathon Indianapolis Monumental Marathon Wineglass Marathon Facebook live chat on eating before and after races  Krispy Kreme Challenge Leadville Trail Marathon Ego is the Enemy Thanks for Listening! I hope you enjoyed today's episode. To share your thoughts: Leave a note in the comment section below. Join the Running for Real Facebook Group and share your thoughts on the episode (or future guests you would like to hear from) Share this show on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or Pinterest. To help out the show: Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews will really help me climb up the iTunes rankings and I promise, I read every single one. Subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. Not sure how to leave a review or subscribe, you can find out here. Thank you to Trevor and Angie, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the show.