Podcasts about Screaming

Matty Stratton, Director of Developer Relations at Aiven, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud for a friendly debate on whether or not company employees can still be considered community members. Corey says no, but opens up his position to the slings and arrows of Matty in an entertaining change of pace. Matty explains why he feels company employees can still be considered community members, and also explores how that should be done in a way that is transparent and helpful to everyone in the community. Matty and Corey also explore the benefits and drawbacks of talented community members becoming employees.About MattyMatty Stratton is the Director of Developer Relations at Aiven, a well-known member of the DevOps community, founder and co-host of the popular Arrested DevOps podcast, and a global organizer of the DevOpsDays set of conferences.Matty has over 20 years of experience in IT operations and is a sought-after speaker internationally, presenting at Agile, DevOps, and cloud engineering focused events worldwide. Demonstrating his keen insight into the changing landscape of technology, he recently changed his license plate from DEVOPS to KUBECTL.He lives in Chicago and has three awesome kids, whom he loves just a little bit more than he loves Diet Coke. Links Referenced: Aiven: https://aiven.io/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattstratton Mastodon: hackyderm.io/@mattstratton LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattstratton/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is brought to us in part by our friends at Min.ioWith more than 1.1 billion docker pulls - Most of which were not due to an unfortunate loop mistake, like the kind I like to make - and more than 37 thousand github stars, (which are admittedly harder to get wrong), MinIO has become the industry standard alternative to S3. It runs everywhere  - public clouds, private clouds, Kubernetes distributions, baremetal, raspberry's pi, colocations - even in AWS Local Zones. The reason people like it comes down to its simplicity, scalability, enterprise features and best in class throughput. Software-defined and capable of running on almost any hardware you can imagine and some you probably can't, MinIO can handle everything you can throw at it - and AWS has imagined a lot of things - from datalakes to databases.Don't take their word for it though - check it out at www.min.io and see for yourself. That's www.min.io Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. I am joined today by returning guest, my friend and yours, Matty Stratton, Director of Developer Relations at Aiven. Matty, it's been a hot second. How are you?Matty: It has been a while, but been pretty good. We have to come back to something that just occurred to me when we think about the different things we've talked about. There was a point of contention about prior art of the Corey Quinn face and photos. I don't know if you saw that discourse; we may have to have a conversation. There may be some absent—Corey: I did not see—Matty: Okay.Corey: —discourse, but I also would accept freely that I am not the first person to ever come up with the idea of opening my mouth and looking ridiculous for a photograph either.Matty: That's fair, but the thing that I think was funny—and if you don't mind, I'll just go ahead and throw this out here—is that I didn't put this two and two together. So, I posted a picture on Twitter a week or so ago that was primarily to show off the fact—it was a picture of me in 1993, and the point was that my jeans were French-rolled and were pegged. But in the photo, I am doing kind of the Corey Quinn face and so people said, “Oh, is this prior art?” And I said—you know what? I actually just remembered and I've never thought about this before, but one of my friends in high school, for his senior year ID he took a picture—his picture looks like, you know, that kind of, you know, three-quarters turn with the mouth opening going, “Ah,” you know?And he loved that picture—number one, he loved that picture so much that this guy carried his senior year high school ID in his wallet until we were like 25 because it was his favorite picture of himself. But every photo—and I saw this from looking through my yearbook of my friend Jay when we are seniors, he's doing the Corey Quinn face. And he is anecdotally part of the DevOps community, now a little bit too, and I haven't pointed this out to him. But people were saying that, you know, mine was prior art on yours, I said, “Actually, I was emulating yet someone else.”Corey: I will tell you the actual story of how it started. It was at re:Invent, I want to say 2018 or so, and what happened was is someone, they were a big fan of the newsletter—sort of the start of re:Invent—they said, “Hey, can I get a selfie with you?” And I figured, sure, why not. And the problem I had is I've always looked bad in photographs. And okay, great, so if I'm going to have a photo taken of me, that's going to be ridiculous, why not as a lark, go ahead and do this for fun during the course of re:Invent this year?So, whenever I did that I just slapped—if someone asked for a selfie—I'd slap the big happy open mouth smile on my face. And people thought, “Oh, my God, this is amazing.” And I don't know that it was necessarily worth that level of enthusiasm, but okay. I'll take it. I'm not here to tell people they're wrong when they enjoy a joke that I'm putting out there.And it just sort of stuck. And I think the peak of it that I don't think I'm ever going to be able to beat is I actually managed to pull that expression on my driver's license.Matty: Wow.Corey: Yeah.Matty: That's—Corey: They don't have a sense of humor that they are aware of at the DMV.Matty: No, they really don't. And having been to the San Francisco DMV and knowing how long it takes to get in there, like, that was a bit of a risk on your part because if they decided to change their mind, you wouldn't be able to come back for another four months [laugh].Corey: It amused me to do it, so why not? What else was I going to do? I brought my iPad with me, it has cellular on it, so I just can work remotely from there. It was either that or working in my home office again, and frankly, at the height of the pandemic, I could use the break.Matty: Yes [laugh]. That's saying something when the break you can use is going to the DMV.Corey: Right.Matty: That's a little bit where we were, where we at. I think just real quick thinking about that because there's a lot to be said with that kind of idea of making a—whether it's silly or not, but having a common, especially if you do a lot of photos, do a lot of things, you don't have to think about, like, how do I look? I mean, you have to think about—you know, you can just say I just know what I do. Because if you think about it, it's about cultivating your smile, cultivating your look for your photos, and just sort of having a way so you don't—you just know what to do every time. I guess that's a, you know, maybe a model tip or something. I don't know. But you might be onto something.Corey: I joke that my entire family motto is never be the most uncomfortable person in the room. And there's something to be said for it where if you're going to present a certain way, make it your own. Find a way to at least stand out. If nothing else, it's a bit different. Most people don't do that.Remember, we've all got made fun of, generally women—for some reason—back about 15 years ago or so for duck face, where in all the pictures you're making duck face. And well, there are reasons why that is a flattering way to present your face. But if there's one thing we love as a society, it's telling women they're doing something wrong.Matty: Yeah.Corey: So yeah, there's a whole bunch of ways you're supposed to take selfies or whatnot. Honestly, I'm in no way shape or form pretty enough or young enough to care about any of them. At this point, it's what I do when someone busts out a camera and that's the end of it. Now, am I the only person to do this? Absolutely not. Do I take ownership of it? No. Someone else wants to do it, they need give no credit. The idea probably didn't come from me.Matty: And to be fair, if I'm little bit taking the mickey there or whatever about prior art, it was more than I thought it was funny because I had not even—it was this thing where it was like, this is a good friend of mine, probably some of that I've been friends with longer than anyone in my whole life, and it was a core part [laugh] of his personality when we were 18 and 19, and it just d—I just never direct—like, made that connection. And then it happened to me and went “Oh, my God. Jason and Corey did the same thing.” [laugh]. It was—Corey: No, it feels like parallel evolution.Matty: Yeah, yeah. It was more of me never having connected those dots. And again, you're making that face for your DMV photo amused you, me talking about this for the last three minutes on a podcast amused me. So.Corey: And let's also be realistic here. How many ways are there to hold your face during a selfie that is distinguishable and worthy of comment? Usually, it's like okay, well, he has this weird sardonic half-smile with an eyebrow ar—no. His mouth was wide open. We're gonna go with that.Matty: You know, there's a little—I want to kind of—because I think there's actually quite a bit to the lesson from any of this because I think about—follow me here; maybe I'll get to the right place—like me and karaoke. No one would ever accuse me of being a talented singer, right? I'm not going to sing well in a way where people are going to be moved by my talent. So instead, I have to go a different direction. I have to go funny.But what it boils down to is I can only do—I do karaoke well when it's a song where I can feel like I'm doing an impression of the singer. So, for example, the B-52s. I do a very good impression of Fred Schneider. So, I can sing a B-52 song all day long. I actually could do better with Pearl Jam than I should be able to with my terrible voice because I'm doing an Eddie Vedder impression.So, what I'm getting at is you're sort of taking this thing where you're saying, okay, to your point, you said, “Hey,”—and your words, not mine—[where 00:07:09] somebody say, “The picture is not going to be of me looking like blue steel runway model, so I might as well look goofy.” You know? And take it that way and be funny with it. And also, every time, it's the same way, so I think it's a matter of kind of owning the conversation, you know, and saying, how do you accentuate the thing that you can do. I don't know. There's something about DevOps, somehow in there.Corey: So, I am in that uncomfortable place right now between having finalized a blog post slash podcast that's going out in two days from this recording. So, it will go out before you and I have this discussion publicly, but it's also too late for me to change any of it,m so I figured I will open myself up to the slings and arrows of you, more or less. And you haven't read this thing yet, which is even better, so you're now going to be angry about an imperfect representation of what I said in writing. But the short version is this: if you work for a company as their employee, then you are no longer a part of that company's community, as it were. And yes, that's nuanced and it's an overbroad statement and there are a bunch of ways that you could poke holes in it, but I'm curious to get your take on the overall positioning of it.Matty: So, at face value, I would vehemently disagree with that statement. And by that is, that I have spent years of my life tilting at the opposite windmill, which is just because you work at this company, doesn't mean you do not participate in the community and should not consider yourself a part of the community, first and foremost. That will, again, like everything else, it depends. It depends on a lot of things and I hope we can kind of explore that a little bit because just as much as I would take umbrage if you will, or whatnot, with the statement that if you work at the company, you stop being part of the community, I would also have an issue with, you're just automatically part of the community, right? Because these things take effort.And I feel like I've been as a devreloper, or whatever, Corey—how do you say it?Corey: Yep. No, you're right on. Devreloper.Matty: As a—or I would say, as a DevRel, although people on Twitter are angry about using the word DevRel to discuss—like saying, “I'm a DevRel.” “DevRel is a department.” It's a DevOps engineer thing again, except actually—it's, like, actually wrong. But anyway, you kind of run into this, like for example—I'm going to not name names here—but, like, to say, you know, Twitter for Pets, the—what do you—by the way, Corey, what are you going to do now for your made-up company when what Twitter is not fun for this anymore? You can't have Twitter for Pets anymore.Corey: I know I'm going to have to come up with a new joke. I don't quite know what to do with myself.Matty: This is really hard. While we will pretend Twitter for Pets is still around a little bit, even though its API is getting shut down.Corey: Exactly.Matty: So okay, so we're over here at Twitter for Pets, Inc. And we've got our—Corey: Twitter for Bees, because you know it'll at least have an APIary.Matty: Yeah. Ha. We have our team of devrelopers and community managers and stuff and community engineers that work at Twitter for Pets, and we have all of our software engineers and different people. And a lot of times the assumption—and now we're going to have Twitter for Pets community something, right? We have our community, we have our area, our place that we interact, whether it's in person, it's virtual, whether it's an event, whether it's our Discord or Discourse or Slack or whatever [doodlee 00:10:33] thing we're doing these days, and a lot of times, all those engineers and people whose title does not have the word ‘community' on it are like, “Oh, good. Well, we have people that do that.”So, number one, no because now we have people whose priority is it; like, we have more intentionality. So, if I work on the community team, if I'm a dev advocate or something like that, my priority is communicating and advocating to and for that community. But it's like a little bit of the, you know, the office space, I take the requirements from the [unintelligible 00:11:07] to people, you I give them to the engineers. I've got people—so like, you shouldn't have to have a go-between, right? And there's actually quite a bit of place.So, I think, this sort of assumption that you're not part of it and you have no responsibility towards that community, first of all, you're missing a lot as a person because that's just how you end up with people building a thing they don't understand.Corey: Oh, I think you have tremendous responsibility to the community, but whether you're a part of it and having responsibility to it or not aligned in my mind.Matty: So… maybe let's take a second and what do you mean by being a part of it?Corey: Right. Where very often I'll see a certain, I don't know, very large cloud provider will have an open-source project. Great, so you go and look at the open-source project and the only people with commit access are people who work at that company. That is an easy-to-make-fun-of example of this. Another is when the people who are in a community and talking about how they perceive things and putting out content about how they've interacted with various aspects of it start to work there, you see areas where it starts to call its authenticity into question.AWS is another great example of this. As someone in the community, I can talk about how I would build something on top of AWS, but then move this thing on to Fastly instead of CloudFront because CloudFront is terrible. If you work there, you're not going to be able to say the same thing. So, even if you're not being effusive with praise, there are certain guardrails and constraints that keep you from saying what you might otherwise, just based upon the sheer self-interest that comes from the company whose product or service you're talking about is also signing your paycheck and choosing to continue to do so.Matty: And I think even less about it because that's where your paycheck is coming. It's also just a—there's a gravitational pull towards those solutions because that's just what you're spending your day with, right? You know—Corey: Yeah. And you also don't want to start and admit even to yourself, in some cases, that okay, this aspect of what our company does is terrible, so companies—people shouldn't use it. You want to sort of ignore that, on some level, psychologically because that dissonance becomes harmful.Matty: Yeah. And I think there's—so again, this is where things get nuanced and get to levels. Because if you have the right amount of psychological safety in your organization, the organization understands what it's about to that. Because even people whose job is to be a community person should be able to say, “Hey, this is my actual opinion on this. And it might be contrary to the go-to-market where that comes in.”But it's hard, especially when it gets filtered through multiple layers and now you've got a CEO who doesn't understand that nuance who goes, “Wait, why was Corey on some podcast saying that the Twitter for Pets API is not everything it could possibly be?” So, I do think—I will say this—I do think that organizations and leadership are understanding this more than they might have in the past, so we are maybe putting on ourselves this belief that we can't be as fully honest, but even if it's not about hiding the warts, even if it's just a matter of also, you're just like, hey, chances are—plus also to be quite frank, if I work at the company, I probably have access to way more shit than I would have to pay for or do whatever and I know the right way. But here's the trick, and I won't even say it's a dogfooding thing, but if you are not learning and thinking about things the way that your users do—and I will even say that that's where—it is the users, which are the community, that community or the people that use your product or are connected to it, they don't use it; they may be anecdotal—or not anecdotally, maybe tangentially connected. I will give an example. And there was a place I was working where it was very clear, like, we had a way to you know, do open-source contributions back of a type of a provider plug-in, whatever you want to call it and I worked at the company and I could barely figure out how to follow the instructions.Because it made a lot of sense to someone who built that software all day long and knew the build patterns, knew all that stuff. So, if you were an engineer at this company, “Well, yeah, of course. You just do this.” And anybody who puts the—connects the dots, this has gotten better—and this was understood relatively quickly as, “Oh, this is the problem. Let's fix it.” So, the thing is, the reason why I bring this up is because it's not something anybody does intentionally because you don't know what you don't know. And—Corey: Oh, I'm not accusing anyone of being a nefarious actor in any of this. I also wonder if part of this is comes from your background as being heavily involved in the Chef community as a Chef employee and as part of the community around that, which is inherently focused on an open-source product that a company has been built around, whereas my primary interaction with community these days is the AWS community, where it doesn't matter whether you're large or small, you are not getting much, if anything, for free from AWS; you're all their customers and you don't really have input into how something gets built, beyond begging nicely.Matty: That's definitely true. And I think we saw that and there was things, when we look at, like, how community, kind of, evolved or just sort of happened at Chef and why we can't recreate it the same way is there was a certain inflection point of the industry and the burgeoning DevOps movement, and there wasn't—you know, so a lot of that was there. But one of the big problems, too, is, as Corey said, everybody—I shouldn't say every, but I've from the A—all the way up to AWS to your smaller startups will have this problem of where you end up hiring in—whether you want to or not—all of your champions and advocates and your really strong community members, and then that ends up happening. So, number one, that's going to happen. So frankly, if you don't push towards this idea, you're actually going to have people not want to come work because you should be able to be still the member that you were before.And the other thing is that at certain size, like, at the size of a hyperscaler, or, you know, a Microsoft—well, anybody—well Microsofts not a hyperscaler, but you know what I'm saying. Like, very, very large organization, your community folks are not necessarily the ones doing that hiring away. And as much as they might—you know, and again, I may be the running the community champion program at Microsoft and see that you want—you know, but that Joe Schmo is getting hired over into engineering. Like, I'm not going to hire Joe because it hurts me, but I can't say you can't, you know? It's so this is a problem at the large size.And at the smaller size, when you're growing that community, it happens, too, because it's really exciting. When there's a place that you're part of that community, especially when there's a strong feel, like going to work for the mothership, so to speak is, like, awesome. So again, to give an example, I was a member of the Chef community, I was a user, a community person well, before, you know, I went and, you know, had a paycheck coming out of that Seattle office. And it was, like, the coolest thing in the world to get a job offer from Ch—like, I was like, “Oh, my God. I get to actually go work there now.” Right?And when I was at Pulumi, there quite a few people I could think of who I knew through the community who then get jobs at Pulumi and we're so excited, and I imagine still excited, you know? I mean, that was awesome to do. So, it's hard because when you get really excited about a technology, then being able to say, “Wait, I can work on this all the time?” That sounds awesome, right? So like, you're going to have that happen.So, I think what you have to do is rather than prevent it from happening because number one, like, you don't want to actually prevent that from happening because those people will actually be really great additions to your organization in lots of ways. Also, you're not going to stop it from happening, right? I mean, it's also just a silly way to do it. All you're going to do is piss people off, and say, like, “Hey, you're not allowed to work here because we need you in the community.” Then they're going to be like, “Great. Well, guess what I'm not a part of anymore now, jerk?” Right? You know [laugh] I mean so—Corey: Exactly.Matty: Your [unintelligible 00:18:50] stops me. So, that doesn't work. But I think to your point, you talked about, like, okay, if you have a, ostensibly this a community project, but all the maintainers are from one—are from your company, you know? Or so I'm going to point to an example of, we had—you know, this was at Pulumi, we had a Champions program called Puluminaries, and then there's something similar to like Vox Populi, but it was kind of the community that was not run by Pulumi Inc. In that case.Now, we helped fund it and helped get it started, but there was there were rules about the, you know, the membership of the leadership, steering committee or board or whatever it was called, there was a hard limit on the number of people that could be Pulumi employees who were on that board. And it actually, as I recall when I was leaving—I imagine this is not—[unintelligible 00:19:41] does sometimes have to adjust a couple of things because maybe those board members become employees and now you have to say, you can't do that anymore or we have to take someone down. But the goal was to actually, you know, basically have—you know, Pulumi Corp wanted to have a voice on that board because if for no other reason, they were funding it, but it was just one voice. It wasn't even a majority voice. And that's a hard sell in a lot of places too because you lose control over that.There's things I know with, uh—when I think about, like, running meetup communities, like, we might be—well I mean, this is not a big secret, I mean because it's been announced, but we're—you know, Aiven is helping bootstrap a bunch of data infrastructure meetups around the world. But they're not Aiven meetups. Now, we're starting them because they have to start, but pretty much our approach is, as soon as this is running and there's people, whether they work here, work with us or not, they can take it, right? Like, if that's go—you know? And being able to do that can be really hard because you have to relinquish the control of your community.And I think you don't have to relinquish a hundred percent of that control because you're helping facilitate it because if it doesn't already have its own thing—to make sure that things like code of conduct and funding of it, and there's things that come along with the okay, we as an organization, as a company that has dollars and euros is going to do stuff for this, but it's not ours. And that's the thing to remember is that your community does not belong to you, the company. You are there to facilitate it, you are there to empower it, you're there to force-multiply it, to help protect it. And yeah, you will probably slurp a whole bunch of value out of it, so this is not magnanimous, but if you want it to actually be a place it's going to work, it kind of has to be what it wants to be. But by the same token, you can't just sort of sit there and be like, “I'm going to wait for this community grow up around me without anything”—you know.So, that's why you do have to start one if there is quote-unquote—maybe if there's no shape to one. But yeah, I think that's… it is different when it's something that feels a little—I don't even want to say that it's about being open-source. It's a little bit about it less of it being a SaaS or a service, or if it's something that you—I don't know.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Honeycomb. I'm not going to dance around the problem. Your. Engineers. Are. Burned. Out. They're tired from pagers waking them up at 2 am for something that could have waited until after their morning coffee. Ring Ring, Who's There? It's Nagios, the original call of duty! They're fed up with relying on two or three different “monitoring tools” that still require them to manually trudge through logs to decipher what might be wrong. Simply put, there's a better way. Observability tools like Honeycomb (and very little else becau se they do admittedly set the bar) show you the patterns and outliers of how users experience your code in complex and unpredictable environments so you can spend less time firefighting and more time innovating. It's great for your business, great for your engineers, and, most importantly, great for your customers. Try FREE today at honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud. That's honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud.Corey: Yeah, I think you're onto something here. I think another aspect where I found it be annoying is when companies view their community as, let's hire them all. And I don't think it ever starts that way. I think that it starts as, well these are people who are super-passionate about this, and they have great ideas and they were great to work with. Could we hire them?And the answer is, “Oh, wait. You can give me money for this thing I've been doing basically for free? Yeah, sure, why not?” And that's great in the individual cases. The problem is, at some point, you start to see scenarios where it feels like, if not everyone, then a significant vocal majority of the community starts to work there.Matty: I think less often than you might think is it done strategically or on purpose. There have been exceptions to that. There's one really clear one where it feels like a certain company a few years ago, hired up all the usual suspects of the DevOps community. All of a sudden, you're like, oh, a dozen people all went to go work at this place all at once. And the fun thing is, I remember feeling a little bit—got my nose a little out of joint because I was not the hiring mana—like, I knew the people.I was like, “Well, why didn't you ask me?” And they said, “Actually, you are more important to us not working here.” Now, that might have just been a way to sell my dude-in-tech ego or not, but whether or not that was actually true for me or not, that is a thing where you say you know, your folks—but I do think that particular example of, like, okay, I'm this, that company, and I'm going to go hire up all the usual suspects, I think that's less. I think a lot of times when you see communities hire up those people, it's not done on purpose and in fact, it's probably not something they actually wanted to do in mass that way. But it happens because people who are passionate about your product, it's like I said before, it actually seems pretty cool to go work on it as your main thing.But I can think of places I've been where we had, you know—again, same thing, we had a Pulumi—we had someone who was probably our strongest, loudest, most vocal community member, and you know, I really wanted to get this person to come join us and that was sort of one of the conversations. Nobody ever said, “We won't offer this person a job if they're great.” Like, that's the thing. I think that's actually kind of would be shitty to be like, “You're a very qualified individual, but you're more important to me out in the community so I'm not going to make your job offer.” But it was like, Ooh, that's the, you know—it'd be super cool to have this person but also, not that that should be part of our calculus of decision, but then you just say, what do you do to mitigate that?Because what I'm concerned about is people hearing this the wrong way and saying, “There's this very qualified individual who wants to come work on my team at my company, but they're also really important to our community and it will hurt our community if they come work here, so sorry, person, we're not going to give you an opportunity to have an awesome job.” Like, that's also thinking about the people involved, too. But I know having talked to folks that lots of these different large organizations that have this problem, generally, those community folks, especially at those places, they don't want this [laugh] happening. They get frustrated by it. So, I mean, I'll tell you, it's you know, the—AWS is one of them, right?They're very excited about a lot of the programs and cool people coming from community builders and stuff and Heroes, you know. On one hand, it's incredibly awesome to have a Hero come work at AWS, but it hurts, right, because now they're not external anymore.Corey: And you stop being a Hero in that case, as well.Matty: Yeah. You do, yeah.Corey: Of course, they also lose the status if they go to one of their major competitors. So like, let me get this straight. You can't be a Hero if you work for AWS or one of its competitors. And okay, how are there any Heroes left at all at some point? And the answer is, they bound it via size and a relatively small list of companies. But okay.Matty: So, thinking back to your point about saying, okay, so if you work at the company, you lose some authenticity, some impartiality, some, you know… I think, rather than just saying, “Well, you're not part”—because that also, honestly, my concern is that your blog post is now going to be ammunition for all the people who don't want to act as members of the community for the company they work for now. They're going to say, well, Corey told me I don't have to. So, like I said, I've been spending the last few years tilting at the opposite windmill, which is getting people that are not on the community team to take part in community summits and discourse and things like that, like, you know, for that's—so I think the thing is, rather than saying, “Well, you can't,” or, “You aren't,” it's like, “Well, what do you do to mitigate those things?”Corey: Yeah, it's a weird thing because taking AWS as the example that I've been beating up on a lot, the vast majority of their employees don't know the community exists in any meaningful sense. Which, no fault to them. The company has so many different things, no one keeps up with at all. But it's kind of nuts to realize that there are huge communities of people out there using a thing you have built and you do not know that those users exist and talk to each other in a particular watering hole. And you of course, as a result, have no presence there. I think that's the wrong direction, too. But—Matty: Mm-hm.Corey: Observing the community and being part of the community, I think there's a difference. Are you a biologist or are you a gorilla?Matty: Okay, but [sigh] I guess that's sort of the difference, too which—and it's hard, it's very hard to not just observe. Because I think that actually even taking the mentality of, “I am here to be Jane Goodall, Dr. Jane Goodall, and observe you while I live amongst you, but I'm not going to actually”—although maybe I'm probably doing disservice—I'm remembering my Goodall is… she was actually more involved. May be a bad example.Corey: Yeah. So, that analogy does fall apart a little bit.Matty: It does fall apart a little bit—Corey: Yeah.Matty: But it's you kind of am I sitting there taking field notes or am I actually engaging with you? Because there is a difference. Even if your main reason for being there is just purely to—I mean, this is not the Prime Directive. It's not Star Trek, right? You're not going to like, hold—you don't need to hold—I mean, do you have to hold yourself aloof and say, “I don't participate in this conversation; I'm just here to take notes?”I think that's very non-genuine at that point. That's over-rotating the other way. But I think it's a matter of in those spaces—I think there's two things. I think you have to have a way to be identified as you are an employee because that's just disclosure.Corey: Oh, I'm not suggesting by any stretch of the imagination, people work somewhere but not admit that they work somewhere when talking about the company. That's called fraud.Matty: Right. No, no, and I don't think it's even—but I'm saying beyond just, if it's not, if you're a cop, you have to tell me, right?Corey: [laugh].Matty: It's like, it's not—if asked, I will tell you I work at AWS. It's like in that place, it should say, “I am an AWS em—” like, I should be badged that way, just so it's clear. I think that's actually helpful in two ways. It's also helpful because it says like, okay, maybe you have a connection you can get for me somehow. Like, you might actually have some different insight or a way to chase something that, you know, it's not necessarily just about disclosure; it's also helpful to know.But I think within those spaces, that disclosure—or not disclosure, but being an employee does not offer you any more authority. And part of that is just having to be very clear about how you're constructing that community, right? And that's sort of the way that I think about it is, like, when we did the Pulumi Community Summit about a year ago, right? It was an online, you know, thing we did, and the timing was such that we didn't have a whole lot of Pulumi engineers were able to join, but when we—and it's hard to say we're going to sit in an open space together and everybody is the same here because people also—here's the difference. You say you want this authority? People will want that authority from the people that work at the company and they will always go to them and say, like, “Well, you should have this answer. Can you tell me about this? Can you do this?”So, it's actually hard on both cases to have that two-way conversation unless you set the rules of that space such as, “Okay, I work at Aiven, but when I'm in this space, short of code of conduct or whatever, if I have to be doing that thing, I have no more authority on this than anyone else.” I'm in this space as the same way everyone else's. You can't let that be assumed.Corey: Oh, and big companies do. It's always someone else's… there's someone else's department. Like, at some level, it feels like when you work in one of those enormous orgs, it's your remit is six inches wide.Matty: Well, right. Right. So, I think it's like your authority exists only so far as it's helpful to somebody. If I'm in a space as an Aivener, I'm there just as Matty the person. But I will say I work at Aiven, so if you're like, “God, I wish that I knew who was the person to ask about this replication issue,” and then I can be like, “Aha, I actually have backchannel. Let me help you with that.” But if I can say, “You know what? This is what I think about Kafka and I think why this is whatever,” like, you can—my opinion carries just as much weight as anybody else's, so to speak. Or—Corey: Yeah. You know, it's also weird. Again, community is such a broad and diverse term, I find myself in scenarios where I will observe and talk to people inside AWS about things, but I never want to come across as gloating somehow, that oh, I know, internal people that talk to you about this and you don't. Like, that's never how I want to come across. And I also, I never see the full picture; it's impossible for me to, so I never make commitments on behalf of other people. That's a good way to get in trouble.Matty: It is. And I think in the case of, like, someone like you who's, you know, got the connections you have or whatever, it's less likely for that to be something that you would advertise for a couple of reasons. Like, nobody should be advertising to gloat, but also, part of my remit as a member of a community team is to actually help people. Like, you're doing it because you want to or because it serves you in a different way. Like, that is literally my job.So like, it shouldn't be, like—like, because same thing, if you offer up your connections, now you are taking on some work to do that. Someone who works at the company, like, yes, you should be taking on that work because this is what we do. We're already getting paid for it, you know, so to speak, so I think that's the—Corey: Yeah.Matty: —maybe a nuance, but—Corey: Every once in a while, I'll check my Twitter spam graveyard, [unintelligible 00:32:01] people asking me technical questions months ago about various things regarding AWS and whatnot. And that's all well and good; the problem I have with it is that I'm not a support vector. I don't represent for the company or work for them. Now, if I worked there, I'd feel obligated to make sure this gets handed to the right person. And that's important.The other part of it, though, is okay, now that that's been done and handed off, like do I shepherd it through the process? Eh. I don't want people to get used to asking people in DMs because again, I consider myself to be a nice guy, but if I'm some nefarious jerk, then I could lead them down a very dark path where I suddenly have access to their accounts. And oh, yeah, go ahead and sign up for this thing and I'll take over their computer or convince them to pay me in iTunes gift cards or something like that. No, no, no. Have those conversations in public or through official channels, just because I don't, I don't think you want to wind up in that scenario.Matty: So, my concern as well, with sort of taking the tack of you are just an observer of the community, not a part of it is, that actually can reinforce some pretty bad behavior from an organization towards how they treat the community. One of the things that bothers me—if we're going to go on a different rant about devrelopers like myself—is I like to say that, you know, we pride ourselves as DevRels as being very empathetic and all this stuff, but very happy to shit all over people that work in sales or marketing, based on their job title, right? And I'm like, “Wow, that's great,” right? We're painting with this broad brush. Whereas in reality, we're not separate from.And so, the thing is, when you treat your community as something separate from you, you are treating it as something separate from you. And then it becomes a lot easier also, to not treat them like people and treat them as just a bunch of numbers and treat them as something to have value extracted from rather than it—this is actually a bunch of humans, right? And if I'm part of that, then I'm in the same Dunbar number a little bit, right? I'm in the same monkey sphere as those people because me, I'm—whoever; I'm the CTO or whatever, but I'm part of this community, just like Joe Smith over there in Paducah, you know, who's just building things for the first time. We're all humans together, and it helps to not treat it as the sort of amorphous blob of value to be extracted.So, I think that's… I think all of the examples you've been giving and those are all valid concerns and things to watch out for, the broad brush if you're not part of the community if you work there, my concern is that that leads towards exacerbating already existing bad behavior. You don't have to convince most of the people that the community is separate from them. That's what I'm sort of getting at. I feel like in this work, we've been spending so much time to try to get people to realize they should be acting like part of their larger community—and also, Corey, I know you well enough to know that, you know, sensationalism to make a point [laugh] works to get somebody to join—Corey: I have my moments.Matty: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's I think… I'll put it this way. I'm very interested to see the reaction, the response that comes out in, well now, for us a couple of days, for you the listener, a while ago [laugh] when that hits because I think it is a, I don't want to say it's controversial, but I think it's something that has a lot of, um… put it this way, anything that's simple and black and white is not good for discussion.Corey: It's nuanced. And I know that whenever I wrote in 1200 words is not going to be as nuanced of the conversation we just had, either, so I'm sure people will have opinions on it. That'd be fun. It'd be a good excuse for me to listen.Matty: Exactly [laugh]. And then we'll have to remember to go back and find—I'll have to do a little Twitter search for the dates.Corey: We'll have to do another discussion on this, if anything interesting comes out of it.Matty: Actually, that would be funny. That would be—we could do a little recap.Corey: It would. I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time. Where can people find you if they want to learn more?Matty: Well, [sigh] for the moment, [sigh] who knows what will be the case when this comes out, but you can still find me on Twitter at @mattstratton. I'm also at hackie-derm dot io—sorry, hackyderm.io. I keep wanting to say hackie-derm, but hackyderm actually works better anyway and it's funnier. But [hackyderm.io/@mattstratton](https://hackyderm.io/@mattstratton) is my Mastodon. LinkedIn; I'm. Around there. I need to play more at that. You will—also again, I don't know when this is coming out, so you won't tell you—you don't find me out traveling as much as you might have before, but DevOpsDays Chicago is coming up August 9th and 10th in Chicago, so at the time of listening to this, I'm sure our program will have been posted. But please come and join us. It will be our ninth time of hosting a DevOpsDay Chicago. And I have decided I'm sticking around for ten, so next year will be my last DevOpsDay that I'm running. So, this is the penultimate. And we always know that the penultimate is the best.Corey: Absolutely. Thanks again for your time. It's appreciated. Matty Stratton, Director of Developer Relations at Aiven. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with an angry comment talking about how I completely missed the whole point of this community and failing to disclose that you are in fact one of the producers of the show.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

This week, we talk about baby deets, bank run, and sequel names. When choosing the right title for a game, you need to consider the fuzziness of discovery algorithms. If incorporating humor into a game's name can make it more memorable, but if it's also harder to search for, is it worth the laughs?00:36 Intro01:20 Thanks to our supporters! (https://moneygrab.bscotch.net)01:40 Happy Update25.18 Bank RunQuestions answered (abbreviated):43:42 JohnFlavin: What's your opinion on jokey pun sequel names, and would you ever use one in a game? To stay up to date with all of our buttery goodness subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts (apple.co/1LxNEnk) or wherever you get your audio goodness. If you want to get more involved in the Butterscotch community, hop into our DISCORD server at discord.gg/bscotch and say hello! Submit questions at https://www.bscotch.net/podcast, disclose all of your secrets to podcast@bscotch.net, and send letters, gifts, and tasty treats to https://bit.ly/bscotchmailbox. Finally, if you'd like to support the show and buy some coffee FOR Butterscotch, head over to https://moneygrab.bscotch.net. ★ Support this podcast ★

S3 Ep 11: Screaming for SZA and The Stars Recorded On: 3/13/23 Hosted By: Will, Brandon & Wasey Movie Of The Week: Scream VI (Spoiler/Discussion) Download Queue: Sea Of Stars Weekly Obsessions

Diya Wynn, Senior Practice Manager in Responsible AI for AWS Machine Learning Solutions Lab, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss her team's efforts to study and implement responsible practices when developing AI technology. Corey and Diya explore the ethical challenges of AI, and why it's so important to be looking ahead for potential issues before they arise. Diya explains why socially responsible AI is still a journey, and describes how her and her team at AWS are seeking to forge that path to help their customers implement the technology in a safe and ethical way. Diya also describes her approach to reducing human-caused bias in AI models. About DiyaDiya Wynn is the Senior Practice Manager in Responsible AI for AWS Machine Learning Solutions Lab. She leads the team that engages with customers globally to go from theory to practice - operationalizing standards for responsible Artificial Intelligence/Machine Learning and data. Diya leads discussions on taking intentional action to uncover potential unintended impacts, and mitigate risks related to the development, deployment and use of AI/ML systems. She leverages her more than 25 years of experience as a technologist scaling products for acquisition; driving inclusion, diversity & equity initiatives; leading operational transformation across industries and understanding of historical and systemic contexts to guide customers in establishing an AI/ML operating model that enables inclusive and responsible products. Additionally, she serves on non-profit boards including the AWS Health Equity Initiative Review Committee; mentors at Tulane University, Spelman College and GMI; was a mayoral appointee in Environment Affairs for 6 consecutive years and guest lectures regularly on responsible and inclusive technology. Diya studied Computer Science at Spelman College, the Management of Technology at New York University, and AI & Ethics at Harvard University Professional School and MIT Sloan School of Management.Links Referenced:Machine Learning is a Marvelously Executed Scam: https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/machine-learning-is-a-marvelously-executed-scam/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Tailscale SSH is a new, and arguably better way to SSH. Once you've enabled Tailscale SSH on your server and user devices, Tailscale takes care of the rest. So you don't need to manage, rotate, or distribute new SSH keys every time someone on your team leaves. Pretty cool, right? Tailscale gives each device in your network a node key to connect to your VPN, and uses that same key for SSH authorization and encryption. So basically you're SSHing the same way that you're already managing your network.So what's the benefit? Well, built-in key rotation, the ability to manage permissions as code, connectivity between any two devices, and reduced latency. You can even ask users to re-authenticate SSH connections for that extra bit of security to keep the compliance folks happy. Try Tailscale now - it's free forever for personal use.Corey: Kentik provides Cloud and NetOps teams with complete visibility into hybrid and multi-cloud networks. Ensure an amazing customer experience, reduce cloud and network costs, and optimize performance at scale — from internet to data center to container to cloud. Learn how you can get control of complex cloud networks at www.kentik.com, and see why companies like Zoom, Twitch, New Relic, Box, Ebay, Viasat, GoDaddy, booking.com, and many, many more choose Kentik as their network observability platform. Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud, I'm Corey Quinn. In a refreshing change of pace, I have decided to emerge from my home office cave studio thing and go to re:Invent and interview people in person. This is something of a challenge for me because it is way easier in person to punch me in the face, so we'll see how it winds up playing out. My guest today is Diya Wynn, Senior Practice Manager at AWS. Diya, what is a practice manager at AWS? What do you do?Diya: So, a practice manager, I guess you can think of it just like a manager of a team. I have a practice that's specifically focused on Responsible AI. And I mean, practices are just like you could have won in financial services or anything. It's a department, essentially. But more important than the practice in the title is actually what I get a chance to do, and that's working with our customers directly that are using and leveraging our AI/ML services to build products.And we have an opportunity to help them think about how are they using that technology in ways to have improvements or benefit individuals in society, but minimize the risk and the unintended impact or harm. And that's something that we get to do with customers over any industry as well as globally. And my team and I have been enjoying the opportunity to be able to help them along their Responsible AI journey.Corey: So, the idea of Responsible AI is… I'm going to sound old and date myself when I say this, but it feels like it's such a strange concept for me, someone who came up doing systems administration work in physical data centers. The responsible use of a server back when I was hands-on hardware was, “Well, you don't want to hit your coworker with a server no matter how obnoxious they are.” And it was fairly straightforward. It was clear: yes or no. And now it seems that whenever we talk about AI in society, in popular culture, from a technologist's point of view, the answer is always a deeply nuanced shade of gray. Help.Diya: Nuanced shade of gray. That's interesting. It is a little bit more challenging. I think that it is, you know, in one sense because of the notion of all of the data that we get to leverage, and our machine-learning models are reliant on data that has variations coming from, you know, historical sort of elements, things that are here baked with bias, all of that has to be considered. And I think when we think about some of the challenges and even the ways in which AI is being used, it means that we have to be much more mindful of its context, right?And these systems are being used in ways that we probably didn't think about servers being used in the past, but also are in the midst of some high-stakes decisions, right? Whether or not I might be identified or misidentified and inappropriately arrested or if I get the appropriate service that I was thinking about or whether or not there are associations related to my gender or my sexual preference. All of that matters, and so it does become much more of a nuanced conversation. Also because depending on the jurisdiction you're in, the region, what makes sense and what matters might differ slightly. So, it's a multidisciplinary problem or challenge that we need to think about what is the legality of this?And we have to think about social science sometimes and there's an element of ethics. And all of that plays into what becomes responsible, what is the right way in which we use the technology, what are the implications of technology? And so yes, it is a little bit more gray, but there are things that I think we have at our disposal to help us be able to respond to and put in place so that we really are doing the right things with technology.Corey: I've known Amazon across the board to be customer-obsessed, and they tell us that constantly—and I do believe it; I talk to an awful lot of Amazonians—and so much of what the company does comes directly from customer requests. I have to ask, what were customers asking that led to the creation of your group? Because it seems odd to me that you would have someone coming to you and saying, “Well, we built a ‘Hot Dog/Not A Hot Dog' image recognition app,” and, “Oopsie. It turns out our app is incredibly biased against Canadians. How do we fix this?” Like, that does not seem like a realistic conversation. What were the customer concerns? How are they articulated?Diya: No, that's really good. And you're right. They weren't asking the question in that way, but over the last five years or so, I would say, there has been an increase in interest and as well as concern about how AI is being used and the potential risks or the areas of unintended impact. And with this sort of heightened sensitivity or concern, both with our executives as well as members of common society, right—they're starting to talk about that more—they started to ask questions. They're using surfaces we want to be responsible in building.Now, some customers were saying that. And so, they would ask, “What are other customers doing? What should we be aware of? How do we or are there tools that we can use to make sure that we're minimizing bias in our systems? Are there things that we can think about in the way of privacy?”And oftentimes privacy and security are one of those areas that might come up first. And those were the kinds of questions. We actually did a survey asking a number of our customer-facing resources to find out what were customers asking so that we could begin to respond with a product or service that would actually meet that need. And I think we've done a great job in being able to respond to that in providing them assistance. And I think the other thing that we paid attention to was not just the customer requests but also what we're seeing in the marketplace. Part of our job is not only to respond to the customer need but also sometimes to see the need that they're going to have ahead of them because of the way in which the industry is moving. And I think we did a pretty good job of being able to see that and then start to provide service and respond to assist them.Corey: Yeah, it's almost like a rule that I believe it was Scott Hanselman that I stole it from where the third time that you're asked the same question, write a blog post, then that way you can do a full deep—Diya: Did he really say write a post? [laugh].Corey: Treatment of it. Yes, he did. And the idea is, write a blog post—because his blog is phenomenal—and that way, you have a really in-depth authoritative answer to that question and you don't have to ad-lib it off the cuff every time someone asks you in the future. And it feels like that's sort of an expression of what you did. You started off as a customer-facing team where they were asking you the same questions again and again and at some point it's, okay, we can either spend the rest of our lives scaling this team ad infinitum and winding up just answering the phone all day, or we can build a service that directly addresses and answers the question.Diya: Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's the way in which we scale, right, and then we have some consistency and structure in order to be able to respond and meet a need. What we were able to do was—and I think this is sort of the beauty of being at AWS and Amazon; we have this opportunity to create narratives and to see a need, and be able to identify and respond to that. And that's something that everybody can do, not just resigned to a VP or someone that's an executive, we all can do that. And that was an opportunity that I had: seeing the need, getting information and data, and being able to respond and say, “We need to come up with something.”And so, one of our first pieces of work was to actually define a framework. How would we engage? What would be that repeatable process or structure for us, framework that we can leverage with our customers every time to help them think through, look around corners, understand where there's risk, be better informed, and make better-informed decisions about how they were using the technology or what ways they could minimize bias? And so, that framework for us was important. And then we have now tools and services as well that were underway, you know, on our product side, if you will, that are complementing—or that, you know, complement the work.So, not only here's a process, here's a framework and structure, but also here are tools that in technology you can bring to bear to help you automate, to help you understand performance, or even you know, help you minimize the bias and risk.Corey: What's interesting to me, in a very different part of the world than AI, I live in AWS costing because I decided, I don't know, I should just go and try and be miserable for the rest of my life and look at bills all day. But whenever I talk to clients, they asked the same question: what are other customers doing, as you alluded to a few minutes ago? And that feels like it's a universal question. I feel like every customer, no matter in what discipline or what area they're in, is firmly convinced that somewhere out there is this utopian, platonic ideal of the perfect company that has figured all of this stuff out and we're all constantly searching for them. Like, there's got to be someone who has solved this problem the right way.And in several cases, I've had to tell clients that you are actually one of the best in the world and furthest advanced at this particular thing. That customer, the closest we've got to them is you, so we should be asking you these questions. And for whatever it's worth, no one ever likes hearing that because, “Like, oh, we're doing something wild.” It's like—Diya: [crosstalk 00:10:15] pioneers.Corey: —“Well, we got to solve this ourselves? That's terrible.”Diya: Well, it's interesting you say that because it is a common question. I think customers have an expectation that because we are AWS, we've seen a lot. And I think that's true. There are tens of thousands of customers that are using our services, we have conversations with companies all across the world, so we do have some perspective of what other customers are doing and that's certainly something that we can bring to the table. But the other part of this is that this is really a new area. This is a sort of new space, that we're focused on trustworthy and Responsible AI, and there aren't a ton of customers that are doing this—or companies at all—that have it entirely answered, that have—you know, we're all on a journey.So, these are, I would say, early stages. And we do have the benefit of being large, having a lot of customers, having some experience in building services as well as helping our customers build products, having a team that's focused on looking at standards and working with standards bodies globally, having teams that are working on our understanding what we're doing in regulation and public policy. And so, all of that we bring to bear when we start talking about, you know, this with our customers. But we don't have all the answers; we're on a journey like them. And I think that's something that we have to be comfortable with, to some degree, that this is an evolving area and we're learning. And we're investing even in research to help us continue to move forward. But there's a lot that we know, that there's a lot that we can bring to the table, and we can help our customers in that regard.Corey: Now, this might very well be old news and well understood and my understanding is laughably naive when this gets released, but as of this recording, a few hours beforehand, you released something called Service Cards. And I have to say, my initial glance at this was honestly one of disappointment when I saw what it was because what I was hoping for, with—when you ever see ‘service' and ‘cards' together, is these are going to be printable cardboard, little cards that I can slip into the Monopoly board game I have at home and game night at home is going to be so traumatic for my kids afterwards. Like, “What's a Fargate?” Says the five-year-old, and there we go. “It means that daddy is not going to passing go, going directly to jail with you. Have fun,” it's great. But I don't think that's what it is.Diya: No, not at all. Not at all. So, it is very similar to the context that people might be familiar with around model cards, being able to give definition and understanding of a model that's being used. For us, we sort of took that concept at one step beyond that in that, you know, just providing a model card isn't sufficient necessarily, especially when there are multiple services or multiple models being used for any one of our services. But what our Service Cards allow us to do is to provide a better understanding of the intended use of the service, you know, and the model that's underpinning that, give context for the performance of that service, give guidelines for our customers to be able to understand how was it best used and how does it best perform.And that's a degree of transparency that we're providing under the hood, for our customers to really help them as well be much more responsible and how they're building on top of those. And it gives them clarity because there is a growing interest in the marketplace for our customers to hold their vendors—or companies to hold their vendors responsible, right, making sure that they're doing the right things and covering off, are we building well? Do we have, like, the customer or enough of demographic covered? What the performance looks like. And this is a really big opportunity for us to be transparent with our customers about how our services are being built and give them a little bit more of that guardrail that we were talking about—guidelines—how to best use it as they look to build upon those.Corey: Not in any way, shape, or form to besmirch the importance of a lot of the areas that you're covering on this, but on some level, I'm just envious in that it would be so nice to have that for every AWS service, of this is how it is—Diya: Uh-oh [laugh].Corey: —actually intended to be used. Because to me, I look at it and all I see is database, database, really expensive database, probably a database, and, like, none of those are designed to be databases. Like, “You lack imagination,” is my approach. And no, it just turns out I'm terrible at computers, but I'm also enthusiastic and those are terrible combinations. But I would love to see breakdowns around things like that as far as intended use, potential pitfalls, and increasingly as we start seeing more and more services get machine learning mixed in, for lack of a better term, increasingly we're going to start to see areas where the ethical implications absolutely are going to be creeping in. Which is a wild thing to say about, I don't know, a service that recommends how to right-size instances having ethical concerns. But it's not that unreasonable.Diya: Well, I can't make any promises about us having those kinds of instructions or guidelines for some of our other services, but we are certainly committed to being able to provide this transparency across our AI/ML services. And again, that's something I will say that's a journey. We've released a few today; there are others that are going to come. We're going to continue to iterate and evolve so that we can get through our services. And there's a lot of work behind that, right?It's not just that we wrote up this document, but it is providing transparency. But it also means that our teams are doing a great bit in terms of the diligence to be able to provide that feedback, to be able to test their models, understand their datasets, you know, provide information about the datasets in public—you know, for the public datasets that are being tested against, and also have the structure for them to train their models appropriately. So, there's a lot going into the development of those that may not be immediately transparent, but really is core to our commitment to how we're building our services now.Corey: It's a new area in many respects because, like, to be very direct. If I wind up misusing or being surprised by a bad implementation of something in most cases in AWS context, the disaster area looks a lot closer to I get a big bill. Which—and this [unintelligible 00:16:35] is going to sound bizarre, but here we are, it's only money. Money can be fixed. I can cry and sob to support and get that fixed.With things like machine learning and AI, the stakes are significantly higher because given some of the use cases and given some of the rapid emerging technology areas in which these things are being tested and deployed, it hurts people if it gets wrong. And an AWS bill is painful, but not in a damaging to populations level. Yet. I'm sure at some point, it becomes so large it becomes its own micro-economy, I guess the way those credits are now, but it's a very different way.Diya: Right. Absolutely. So, I think that's why our work from a responsibility perspective is important. But I think it's also valuable for customers to understand, we're taking a step forward and being able to help them. Very much like what we do with well-architected, right? We have a framework, we have best practices and guidance that is being provided so that our customers who are using our cloud services really know what's the best.This is very much like those Service Cards, right? Here's the best conditions in order to be able to use and get the greatest value out of your cloud investment. The same thing is what we're doing with this approach in helping our customers in the Responsible AI way. Here's the best, sort of, best practices, guidance, guardrails, tools that are going to help you make the most out of your investment in AI and minimize where there's this unintended or potential areas of potential harm that you were describing. And you're right, there are high stakes use cases, right, that we want to make sure or want to be able to help and equip our customers to think more about intentionally and be prepared to be able to hopefully have a governance structure, people aligned, processes, technology to really be able to minimize that, right? We want to reduce the blast radius.[midroll 00:18:37]Corey: One thing I want to call out as well is that as much as we love in tech to pretend that we have invented all of these things ourselves—like, we see it all the time; like, “No one really knows how to hire, there's no real scientific study on this.” “Yes, there are. There are multi-decade longitudinal studies at places like GM and whatnot.” And, “No, no, no tech is different. There's no way to know this. La la la.”And that's great. We have to invent these things ourselves. But bias has been a thing in business decisions, even ones that are not directly caused by humans, for a long time. An easy example is in many cases, credit ratings and decisions whether to grant credit or not. Like, they were not using machine learning in the 90s to do this, but strangely, depending upon a wide variety of factors that are not actually things that are under your control as a person, you are deemed to be a good credit risk versus a bad credit risk.And as a result, I think one of the best terms I heard in the early days when machine learning started getting big, was just referring to it as bias laundering. Well, we've had versions of that for a long time. Now, at least it seems like this shines a light on it if nothing else, and gives us an opportunity to address it.Diya: Absolutely. Oh, I'd love that, right? The opportunity to address it. So, one of the things that I often share with folks is we all have bias, right? And so, like you said we've had bias in a number of cases. Now, you know, in some cases, bias is understandable. We all have it. It is the thing that often—we talk about the sort of like mental shortcuts, things that we do that help us to respond rapidly in the world in the vast array of information that we're taking in all the time. So—Corey: You're an Amazonian. You yourself bias for action.Diya: Exactly. Right? So, we have bias. Now, the intent is that we want to be able to disrupt that so that we don't make decisions, oftentimes, that could be harmful, right? So, we have proclivities, desires, interest, right, that kind of folds into our bias, but there are other things, our background, where we went to school, you know, experiences that we had, information that we've been taking that also helped to drive towards some of those biases.So, that's one element, right, understanding that. A human bias gets infiltrated into our systems. And there was a study in AI now—I think it was 2019—that talked about that, right, that our systems are often biased by—or the bias is introduced, you know, sometimes by individuals. And part of the necessity for us to be able to eliminate that is understanding that we have bias, do things to interrupt it, and then also bringing in diversity, right? Because some of our biases are just that we don't have enough of the right perspectives in the room; we don't have enough of the right people involved, right?And so, being able to sort of widen the net, making sure that we're involving the outliers, I think are important to us being able to eliminate bias as well. And then there are tools that we can use. But then you also bring up something interesting here in terms of the data, right? And there's a part that education plays a good role in helping us understand the things like what you described our institutional biases baked into our data that also can come out in decisions that are now being made. And the more that we use AI in these ways, the more there is risk for that, right?So, that's why this effort in Responsible AI, understanding how we mitigate bias, understanding how we invite the right people in, the inclusion of the right perspectives, thinking about the outliers, thinking about whether or not this is the right problem for us to solve with AI is important, right, so that we can minimize those areas where bias is just another thing that we continue to propagate.Corey: So, a year or two ago, I wrote a blog post titled Machine Learning is a Marvelously Executed Scam. And it was talking about selling digital pickaxes into a data gold rush.Diya: I [crosstalk 00:22:30] remember this one [laugh].Corey: And it was a lot of fun. In fact, the Head of Analyst Relations at AWS for Machine Learning responded by sending me a Minecraft pickaxe made out of foam, which is now in my home office hung behind my office and I get a comment at least three times a week on that. It was absolutely genius as far as rebuttal go. And I've got to find some way to wind up responding to her in kind one of these days.But it felt like it was a solution in search of a problem. And I no longer hold so closely to that particular opinion, in no small part due to the fact that, as you're discussing, this area is fraught, it's under an awful lot of scrutiny, large companies who use these things and then those tools get it wrong are going to basically wind up being castigated for it. And yet, they are clearly realizing enough value from machine learning that it is worth the risk. And these are companies whose entire business, start to finish, is managing and mitigating risk. There is something there or suddenly everyone has taken leave of their senses. I don't quite buy that second option, so I'm guessing it's the first.Diya: So, the question is, is it worth the risk? And I would say, I think some people might or some companies might have started to step into that area thinking that it is, but it's not. And that's what we're saying and that's what we're hearing in the industry [unintelligible 00:23:51], that it's not worth the risk. And you're hearing from customers, outcries from others, government officials, right, all of them are saying, like, “It's not worth the risk and we have to pay attention to that.”But I think that there's certainly value and we're seeing that, right? We're solving previously unattainable problems with AI. We want to be able to continue to do that, but give people the means to be able to sort of minimize where there is risk and recognize that this is not a risk that's worth us taking. So, the potential for reputational harm and the damage that will do is real, right? When a company is called out for the fact that they've discriminated and they're unfairly evaluating homes, for instance, for people of color in certain communities, right, that's not something that's going to be tolerated or accepted.And so, you have people really calling those things out so that we start to—organizations do the right things and not think that risk is worth the [unintelligible 00:24:52]. It is very well worth the risk to use AI, but we've got to do it responsibly. There's so much value in what we are able to accomplish. So, we're seeing, you know, even with Covid, being able to advance, like, the technology around vaccinations and how that was done and accelerated with machine learning, or being able to respond to some of the needs that small businesses and others had, you know, during Covid, being able to continuate their service because we didn't have people in businesses or in offices, a lot of that was advanced during that time as a result of AI. We want to be able to see advances like that and companies be able to continue to innovate, and so we want to be able to do that without the risk, without the sort of impact that we're talking about, the negative impact. And I think that's why the work is so important.Corey: Do you believe that societally we're closer to striking the right balance?Diya: We're on our way. I think this is certainly a journey. There is a lot of attention on this in the right ways. And my hope—and certainly, that's why I'm in a role like this—that we can actually invite the right voices into the room. One of the things—and one of my colleagues said this earlier today, and I think it was a really, really great point, right—as we are seeing—first of all, we never thought that we would have, like, ethicists roles and sort of Responsible AI folks, and chief ethics officers. That was not something that existed in the context of, sort of, machine learning, and that's something that it's evolved in the last, you know, few years.But the other thing that we're seeing is that the folks that are sitting in those roles are increasingly diverse and are helping to drive the focus on the inclusion that we need and the value of making sure that those voices are there so that we can build in inclusive and responsible ways. And that's one of the things that I think is helping us get there, right? We're not entirely there, but I think that we're on a path. And the more that we can have conversations like this, the more that companies are starting to pay attention and take intentional action, right, to build ethically and to have the trust in the technology and the products that they build, and to do that in responsible ways, we'll get there.Corey: I really want to thank you for taking so much time to talk through what you're up to with me.Diya: I am super excited and glad that you were able to have me on. I love talking about this, so it's great. And I think it's one of the ways that we get more people aware, and hopefully, it sparks the interest in companies to take their own Responsible AI journey.Corey: Thank you so much for your time.Diya: Thanks for having me.Corey: I appreciate it. Diya Wynn, Senior Practice Manager at AWS. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry insulting comment, presumably because you're Canadian.Diya: [laugh].Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

The Scream franchise returns to theaters this weekend. Since it first debuted in 1996, the racial dynamics of horror films have evolved. And for the first time in generations of scary movies, African American characters are surviving, killing the monsters, or even slaying as horror villains themselves. On today's episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by Mark Harris, the co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, to talk about the evolution of Black horror.  Guest: Mark Harris, writer and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First  Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola You can skip all the ads in A Word by joining Slate Plus. Sign up now at slate.com/awordplus for just $1 for your first month. Make an impact this Women's History Month by helping Macy's on their mission to fund girls in STEM. Go to macys.com/purpose to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I ve talked to a couple of people and they dont know what screamo is. So I decided to make a show about this because its my favorite style right now so duh I'm going to play only the best i can find!  The passion you can hear in the way they belt that chorus out is so euphoric in away. Enjoy on this episode of Rock Phoenix Live!!!!  By the way make sure you take care of yourself mentally, physically and health wise theres a lot of great veggies that can save and repair  bodies to a certain extent. But its better than the alterative. Rock ON music listeners. !!!!!  

The Scream franchise returns to theaters this weekend. Since it first debuted in 1996, the racial dynamics of horror films have evolved. And for the first time in generations of scary movies, African American characters are surviving, killing the monsters, or even slaying as horror villains themselves. On today's episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by Mark Harris, the co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, to talk about the evolution of Black horror.  Guest: Mark Harris, writer and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First  Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola You can skip all the ads in A Word by joining Slate Plus. Sign up now at slate.com/awordplus for just $1 for your first month. Make an impact this Women's History Month by helping Macy's on their mission to fund girls in STEM. Go to macys.com/purpose to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Scream franchise returns to theaters this weekend. Since it first debuted in 1996, the racial dynamics of horror films have evolved. And for the first time in generations of scary movies, African American characters are surviving, killing the monsters, or even slaying as horror villains themselves. On today's episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by Mark Harris, the co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, to talk about the evolution of Black horror.  Guest: Mark Harris, writer and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First  Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola You can skip all the ads in A Word by joining Slate Plus. Sign up now at slate.com/awordplus for just $1 for your first month. Make an impact this Women's History Month by helping Macy's on their mission to fund girls in STEM. Go to macys.com/purpose to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Doubling down on flowers

The Scream franchise returns to theaters this weekend. Since it first debuted in 1996, the racial dynamics of horror films have evolved. And for the first time in generations of scary movies, African American characters are surviving, killing the monsters, or even slaying as horror villains themselves. On today's episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by Mark Harris, the co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, to talk about the evolution of Black horror.  Guest: Mark Harris, writer and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First  Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola You can skip all the ads in A Word by joining Slate Plus. Sign up now at slate.com/awordplus for just $1 for your first month. Make an impact this Women's History Month by helping Macy's on their mission to fund girls in STEM. Go to macys.com/purpose to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Scream franchise returns to theaters this weekend. Since it first debuted in 1996, the racial dynamics of horror films have evolved. And for the first time in generations of scary movies, African American characters are surviving, killing the monsters, or even slaying as horror villains themselves. On today's episode of A Word, Jason Johnson is joined by Mark Harris, the co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, to talk about the evolution of Black horror.  Guest: Mark Harris, writer and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First  Podcast production by Kristie Taiwo-Makanjuola You can skip all the ads in A Word by joining Slate Plus. Sign up now at slate.com/awordplus for just $1 for your first month. Make an impact this Women's History Month by helping Macy's on their mission to fund girls in STEM. Go to macys.com/purpose to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The perfect mother on TikTok or Instagram is a far cry from the reality of motherhood off the screen. Jessica Grose is an opinion writer at The New York Times who writes the newsletter On Parenting, and she joins host Krys Boyd to discuss what successful parenting really looks like, from her own stories of pregnancy and child-rearing to the societal expectations we have for parents. Her book is called “Screaming on the Inside: The Unsustainability of American Motherhood.” This episode originally aired on January 11, 2023.

Dr. Dan and Jessica Grose (opinion writer at The New York Times, author, founding editor of Lena Dunham's Lenny Letter) discuss and examine the unrealistic expectations we place on mothers and her new book Screaming on the Inside: The Unsustainability of American Motherhood.Dr. Dan and Jessica (mother of two daughters) discuss her parenting experiences, mom burnout, self-care, motherhood myths, double-standards, and more. This provocative episode pulls apart our ideas of American motherhood to explore how we can make parenting more humane for ALL parents.For more information about Jessica Grose visit her website www.jessicagrose.com and follow her on Instagram.Email your parenting questions to Dr. Dan podcast@drdanpeters.com (we might answer on a future episode).Follow us @parentfootprintpodcast (Instagram, Facebook) and @drdanpeters (Twitter).Listen, follow, and leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Wondery, or wherever you like to listen!Don't forget, you can hear every episode one week early and ad-free by subscribing to Wondery+ in the @WonderyMedia App.For more information:www.exactlyrightmedia.com www.drdanpeters.comFor podcast merch:www.exactlyrightmedia.com/parent-footprint-shopSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jason McKay, Chief Technology Officer at Logicworks, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss how the cloud landscape has changed and what changes are picking up steam. Jason highlights the benefit of working in a consulting role, which provides a constant flow of interesting problems to solve. Corey and Jason also explore why cloud was positioned well for the current economic changes, and how Kubernetes is slowly but surely becoming more standardized. Jason also reveals some of his predictions for the future of cloud-based development. About JasonJason is responsible for leading Logicworks' technical strategy including its software and DevOps product roadmap. In this capacity, he works directly with Logicworks' senior engineers and developers, technology vendors and partners, and R&D team to ensure that Logicworks service offerings meet and exceed the performance, compliance, automation, and security requirements of our clients. Prior to joining Logicworks in 2005, Jason worked in technology in the Unix support trenches at Panix (Public Access Networks). Jason graduated Bard College with a Bachelor of Arts and holds several AWS and Azure Professional certifications.Links Referenced: Logicworks: https://www.logicworks.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonhmckay/

After hearing gunshots followed by a woman screaming for help, she found nothing. Then she came across an elaborate memorial that seemed to come out of nowhere. Then it disappeared. What happened? If you have a real ghost story or supernatural event to report, please write into our show or call 1-855-853-4802! If you like the show, please help keep us on the air and support the show by becoming an EPP (Extra Podcast Person). We'll give you a BONUS episode every week as a "Thank You" for your support. Become an EPP here: http://www.ghostpodcast.com/?page_id=118 or at or at http://www.patreon.com/realghoststories Watch more at: http://www.realghoststoriesonline.com/ Follow Tony: Instagram: HTTP://www.instagram.com/tonybrueski TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@tonybrueski Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tony.brueski 

As a parent of teens, you might be familiar with what I like to call the dreaded "screaming hair fit," caused by everything from finding the perfect outfit before an important event, a haircut gone wrong or even just a pimple on their face. Transition times with teens can be especially turbulent; and leave you feeling pulled you into their emotional "vortex" with no way to get yourself out of it. If this sounds familiar join me for today's discussion where I'll look closer at why this phenomenon occurs and explore strategies for navigating these emotionally charged situations with your teenager - plus learn what age range is more likely to experience improvement in such frustrating scenarios. Join me now as I dissect the teenage screaming hair fit.

Emily Gorcenski, Data & AI Service Line Lead at Thoughtworks, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss how big data is changing our lives - both for the better, and the challenges that come with it. Emily explains how data is only important if you know what to do with it and have a plan to work with it, and why it's crucial to understand the use-by date on your data. Corey and Emily also discuss how big data problems aren't universal problems for the rest of the data community, how to address the ethics around AI, and the barriers to entry when pursuing a career in data. About EmilyEmily Gorcenski is a principal data scientist and the Data & AI Service Line Lead of ThoughtWorks Germany. Her background in computational mathematics and control systems engineering has given her the opportunity to work on data analysis and signal processing problems from a variety of complex and data intensive industries. In addition, she is a renowned data activist and has contributed to award-winning journalism through her use of data to combat extremist violence and terrorism. The opinions expressed are solely her own.Links Referenced: ThoughtWorks: https://www.thoughtworks.com/ Personal website: https://emilygorcenski.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski Mastodon: https://mastodon.green/@emilygorcenski@indieweb.social TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. My guest today is Emily Gorcenski, who is the Data and AI Service Line Lead over at ThoughtWorks. Emily, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it.Emily: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.Corey: What is it you do, exactly? Take it away.Emily: Yeah, so I run the data side of our business at ThoughtWorks, Germany. That means data engineering work, data platform work, data science work. I'm a data scientist by training. And you know, we're a consulting company, so I'm working with clients and trying to help them through the, sort of, morphing landscape that data is these days. You know, should we be migrating to the cloud with our data? What can we migrate to the cloud with our data? Where should we be doing with our data scientists and how do we make our data analysts' lives easier? So, it's a lot of questions like that and trying to figure out the strategy and all of those things.Corey: You might be one of the most perfectly positioned people to ask this question to because one of the challenges that I've run into consistently and persistently—because I watch a lot of AWS keynotes—is that they always come up with the same talking point, that data is effectively the modern gold. And data is what unlocks value to your busin—“Every business agrees,” because someone who's dressed in what they think is a nice suit on stage is saying that it's, “Okay, you're trying to sell me something. What's the deal here?” Then I check my email and I discover that Amazon has sent me the same email about the same problem for every region I've deployed things to in AWS. And, “Oh, you deploy this to one of the Japanese regions. We're going to send that to you in Japanese as a result.”And it's like, okay, for a company that says data is important, they have no idea who any of their customers are at this point, is that is the takeaway here. How real is, “Data is important,” versus, “We charge by the gigabyte so you should save all of your data and then run expensive things on top of it.”Emily: I think data is very important, if you know what you're going to do with it and if you have a plan for how to work with it. I think if you look at the history of computing, of technology, if you go back 20 years to maybe the early days of the big data era, right? Everyone's like, “Oh, we've got big data. Data is going to be big.” And for some reason, we never questioned why, like, we were thinking that the ‘big' in ‘big data' meant big is in volume and not ‘big' as in ‘big pharma.'This sort of revolution never really happened for most companies. Sure, some companies got a lot of value from the, sort of, data mining and just gather everything and collect everything and if you hit it with a big computational hammer, insights will come out and somehow there's insights will make you money through magic. The reality is much more prosaic. If you want to make money with data, you have to have a plan for what you're going to do with data. You have to know what you're looking for and you have to know exactly what you're going to get when you look at your data and when you try to answer questions with it.And so, when we see somebody like Amazon not being able to correlate that the fact that you're the account owner for all of these different accounts and that the language should be English and all of these things, that's part of the operational problem because it's annoying, to try to do joins across multiple tables in multiple regions and all of those things, but it's also part—you know, nobody has figured out how this adds value for them to do that, right? There's a part of it where it's like, this is just professionalism, but there's a part of it, where it's also like… whatever. You've got Google Translate. Figure out yourself. We're just going to get through it.I think that… as time has evolved from the initial waves of the big data era into the data science era, and now we're in, you know, all sorts of different architectures and principles and all of these things, most companies still haven't figured out what to do with data, right? They're still investing a ton of money to answer the same analytics questions that they were answering 20 years ago. And for me, I think that's a disappointment in some regards because we do have better tools now. We can do so many more interesting things if you give people the opportunity.Corey: One of the things that always seemed a little odd was, back when I wielded root credentials in anger—anger,' of course, being my name for the production environment, as opposed to, “Theory,” which is what I call staging because it works in theory, but not in production. I digress—it always felt like I was getting constant pushback from folks of, “You can't delete that data. It's incredibly important because one day, we're going to find a way to unlock the magic of it.” And it's, “These are web server logs that are 15 years old, and 98% of them by volume are load balancer health checks because it turns out that back in those days, baby seals got more hits than our website did, so that's not really a thing that we wind up—that's going to add much value to it.” And then from my perspective, at least, given that I tend to live, eat, sleep, breathe cloud these days, AWS did something that was refreshingly customer-obsessed when they came out with Glacier Deep Archive.Because the economics of that are if you want to store a petabyte of data, with a 12-hour latency on request for things like archival logs and whatnot, it's $1,000 a month per petabyte, which is okay, you have now hit a price point where it is no longer worth my time to argue with you. We're just not going to delete anything ever again. Problem solved. Then came GDPR, which is neither here nor there and we actually want to get rid of those things for a variety of excellent legal reasons. And the dance continues.But my argument against getting rid of data because it's super expensive no longer holds water in the way that it wants did for anything remotely resembling a reasonable amount of data. Then again, that's getting reinvented all the time. I used to be very, I guess we'll call it, I guess, a data minimalist. I don't want to store a bunch of data, mostly because I'm not a data person. I am very bad thinking in that way.I consider SQL to be the chests of the programming world and I'm not particularly great at it. And I also unlucky and have an aura, so if I destroy a bunch of stateless web servers, okay, we can all laugh about that, but let's keep me the hell away from the data warehouse if we still want a company tomorrow morning. And that was sort of my experience. And I understand my bias in that direction. But I'm starting to see magic get unlocked.Emily: Yeah, I think, you know, you said earlier, there's, like, this mindset, like, data is the new gold or data is new oil or whatever. And I think it's actually more true that data is the new milk, right? It goes bad if you don't use it, you know, before a certain point in time. And at a certain point in time, it's not going to be very offensive if you just leave it locked in the jug, but as soon as you try to open it, you're going to have a lot of problems. Data is very, very cheap to store these days. It's very easy to hold data; it's very expensive to process data.And I think that's where the shift has gone, right? There's sort of this, like, Oracle DBA legacy of, like, “Don't let the software developers touch the prod database.” And they've kind of kept their, like, arcane witchcraft to themselves, and that mindset has persisted. But now it's sort of shifted into all of these other architectural patterns that are just abstractions on top of this, don't let the software engineers touch the data store, right? So, we have these, like, streaming-first architectures, which are great. They're great for software devs. They're great for software devs. And they're great for data engineers who like to play with big powerful technology.They're terrible if you want to answer a question, like, “How many customers that I have yesterday?” And these are the things that I think are some of the central challenges, right? A Kappa architecture—you know, streaming-first architecture—is amazing if you want to improve your application developer throughput. And it's amazing if you want to build real-time analytics or streaming analytics into your platform. But it's terrible if you want your data lake to be navigable. It's terrible if you want to find the right data that makes sense to do the more complex things. And it becomes very expensive to try to process it.Corey: One of the problems I think I have that is that if I take a look at the data volumes that I work with in my day-to-day job, I'm dealing with AWS billing data as spit out by the AWS billing system. And there isn't really a big data problem here. If you take a look at some of the larger clients, okay, maybe I'm trying to consume a CSV that's ten gigabytes. Yes, Excel is going to violently scream itself to death if I try to wind up loading it there, and then my computer smells like burning metal all afternoon. But if it fits in RAM, it doesn't really feel like it's a big data problem, on some level.And it just feels that when I look at the landscape of all the different tools you can use for things like this, they just feel like it's more or less, hmm, “I have a loose thread on my shirt. Could you pass me that chainsaw for a second?” It just seems like stupendous overkill for anything that I'm working with. Counterpoint; that the clients I'm working with have massive data farms and my default response when I meet someone who's very good at an area that I don't do a lot of work in is—counterintuitively to what a lot of people apparently do on Twitter—is not the default assumption of oh, “I don't know anything about that space. It must be worthless and they must be dumb.”No. That is not the default approach to take anything, from my perspective. So, it's clear there's something very much there that I just don't see slash understand. That is a very roundabout way of saying what could be uncharitably distilled down to, “So, is your entire career bullshit?” But no, it is clearly not.There is value being extracted from this and it's powerful. I just think that there's been an industry-wide, relatively poor job done of explaining that value in ways that don't come across as contrived or profoundly disturbing.Emily: Yeah, I think there's a ton of value in doing things right. It gets very complicated to try to explain the nuances of when and how data can actually be useful, right? Oftentimes, your historical data, you know, it really only tells you about what happened in the past. And you can throw some great mathematics at it and try to use it to predict the future in some sense, but it's not necessarily great at what happens when you hit really hard changes, right?For example, when the Coronavirus pandemic hit and purchaser and consumer behavior changed overnight. There was no data in the data set that explained that consumer behavior. And so, what you saw is a lot of these things like supply chain issues, which are very heavily data-driven on a normal circumstance, there was nothing in that data that allowed those algorithms to optimize for the reality that we were seeing at that scale, right? Even if you look at advanced logistics companies, they know what to do when there's a hurricane coming or when there's been an earthquake or things like that. They have disaster scenarios.But nobody has ever done anything like this at the global scale, right? And so, what we saw was this hard reset that we're still feeling the repercussions of today. Yes, there were people who couldn't work and we had lockdowns and all that stuff, but we also have an effect from the impact of the way that we built the systems to work with the data that we need to shuffle around. And so, I think that there is value in being able to process these really, really large datasets, but I think that actually, there's also a lot of value in being able to solve smaller, simpler problems, right? Not everything is a big data problem, not everything requires a ton of data to solve.It's more about the mindset that you use to look at the data, to explore the data, and what you're doing with it. And I think the challenge here is that, you know, everyone wants to believe that they have a big data problem because it feels like you have to have a big data problem if you—Corey: All the cool kids are having this kind of problem.Emily: You have to have big data to sit at the grownup's table. And so, what's happened is we've optimized a lot of tools around solving big data problems and oftentimes, these tools are really poor at solving normal data problems. And there's a lot of money being spent in a lot of overkill engineering in the data space.Corey: On some level, it feels like there has been a dramatic misrepresentation of this. I had an article that went out last year where I called machine-learning selling pickaxes into a digital gold rush. And someone I know at AWS responded to that and probably the best way possible—she works over on their machine-learning group—she sent me a foam Minecraft pickaxe that now is hanging on my office wall. And that gets more commentary than anything, including the customized oil painting I have of Billy the Platypus fighting an AWS Billing Dragon. No, people want to talk about the Minecraft pickaxe.It's amazing. It's first, where is this creativity in any of the marketing that this department is putting out? But two it's clearly not accurate. And what it took for me to see that was a couple of things that I built myself. I built a Twitter thread client that would create Twitter threads, back when Twitter was a place that wasn't overrun by some of the worst people in the world and turned into BirdChan.But that was great. It would automatically do OCR on images that I uploaded, it would describe the image to you using Azure's Cognitive Vision API. And that was magic. And now I see things like ChatGPT, and that's magic. But you take a look at the way that the cloud companies have been describing the power of machine learning in AI, they wind up getting someone with a doctorate whose first language is math getting on stage for 45 minutes and just yelling at you in Star Trek technobabble to the point where you have no idea what the hell they're saying.And occasionally other data scientists say, “Yeah, I think he's just shining everyone on at this point. But yeah, okay.” It still becomes unclear. It takes seeing the value of it for it to finally click. People make fun of it, but the Hot Dog, Not A Hot Dog app is the kind of valuable breakthrough that suddenly makes this intangible thing very real for people.Emily: I think there's a lot of impressive stuff and ChatGPT is fantastically impressive. I actually used ChatGPT to write a letter to some German government agency to deal with some bureaucracy. It was amazing. It did it, was grammatically correct, it got me what I needed, and it saved me a ton of time. I think that these tools are really, really powerful.Now, the thing is, not every company needs to build its own ChatGPT. Maybe they need to integrate it, maybe there's an application for it somewhere in their landscape of product, in their landscape of services, in the landscape of their interim internal tooling. And I would be thrilled actually to see some of that be brought into reality in the next couple of years. But you also have to remember that ChatGPT is not something that came because we have, like, a really great breakthrough in AI last year or something like that. It stacked upon 40 years of research.We've gone through three new waves of neural networking in that time to get to this point, and it solves one class of problem, which is honestly a fairly narrow class of problem. And so, what I see is a lot of companies that have much more mundane problems, but where data can actually still really help them. Like how do you process Cambodian driver's licenses with OCR, right? These are the types of things that if you had a training data set that was every Cambodian person's driver's license for the last ten years, you're still not going to get the data volumes that even a day worth of Amazon's marketplace generates, right? And so, you need to be able to solve these problems still with data without resorting to the cudgel that is a big data solution, right?So, there's still a niche, a valuable niche, for solving problems with data without having to necessarily resort to, we have to load the entire internet into our stream and throw GPUs at it all day long and spend hundreds of—tens of millions of dollars in training. I don't know, maybe hundreds of millions; however much ChatGPT just raised. There's an in-between that I think is vastly underserved by what people are talking about these days.Corey: There is so much attention being given to this and it feels almost like there has been a concerted and defined effort to almost talk in circles and remove people from the humanity and the human consequences of what it is that they're doing. When I was younger, in my more reckless years, I was never much of a fan of the idea of government regulation. But now it has become abundantly clear that our industry, regardless of how you want to define industry, how—describe a society—cannot self-regulate when it comes to data that has the potential to ruin people's lives. I mean, I spent a fair bit of my time in my career working in financial services in a bunch of different ways. And at least in those jobs, it was only money.The scariest thing I ever dealt with, from a data perspective is when I did a brief stint at Grindr because that was the sort of problem where if that data gets out, people will die. And I have not had to think about things like that have that level of import before or since, for which I'm eternally grateful. “It's only money,” which is a weird thing for a guy who fixes cloud bills for a living to say. And if I say that in a client call, it's not going to go very well. But it's the truth. Money is one of those things that can be fixed. It can be addressed in due course. There are always opportunities there. Someone just been outed to their friends, family, and they feel their life is now in shambles around them, you can't unring that particular bell.Emily: Yeah. And in some countries, it can lead to imprisonment, or—Corey: It can lead to death sentences, yes. It's absolutely not acceptable.Emily: There's a lot to say about the ethics of where we are. And I think that as a lot of these high profile, you know, AI tools have come out over the last year or so, so you know, Stable Diffusion and ChatGPT and all of this stuff, there's been a lot of conversation that is sort of trying to put some counterbalance on what we're seeing. And I don't know that it's going to be successful. I think that, you know, I've been speaking about ethics and technology for a long time and I think that we need to mature and get to the next level of actually addressing the ethical problems in technology. Because it's so far beyond things like, “Oh, you know, if there's a biased training data set and therefore the algorithm is biased,” right?Everyone knows that by now, right? And the people who don't know that, don't care. We need to get much beyond where, you know, these conversations about ethics and technology are going because it's a manifold problem. We have issues with the people labeling this data are paid, you know, pennies per hour to deal with some of the most horrific content you've ever seen. I mean, I'm somebody who has immersed myself in a lot of horrific content for some of the work that I have done, and this is, you know, so far beyond what I've had to deal with in my life that I can't even imagine it. You couldn't pay me enough money to do it and we're paying people in developing nations, you know, a buck-thirty-five an hour to do this. I think—Corey: But you must understand, Emily, that given the standard of living where they are, that that is perfectly normal and we wouldn't want to distort local market dynamics. So, if they make a buck-fifty a day, we are going to be generous gods and pay them a whopping dollar-seventy a day, and now we feel good about ourselves. And no, it's not about exploitation. It's about raising up an emerging market. And other happy horseshit that lies people tell themselves.Emily: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And we've built—you know, the industry has built its back on that. It's raised itself up on this type of labor. It's raised itself up on taking texts and images without permission of the creators. And, you know, there's—I'm not a lawyer and I'm not going to play one, but I do know that derivative use is something that at least under American law, is something that can be safely done. It would be a bad world if derivative use was not something that we had freely available, I think, and on the balance.But our laws, the thing is, our laws don't account for the scale. Our laws about things like fair use, derivative use, are for if you see a picture and you want to take your own interpretation, or if you see an image and you want to make a parody, right? It's a one-to-one thing. You can't make 5 million parody images based on somebody's art, yourself. These laws were never built for this scale.And so, I think that where AI is exploiting society is it's exploiting a set of ethics, a set of laws, and a set of morals that are built around a set of behavior that is designed around normal human interaction scales, you know, one person standing in front of a lecture hall or friends talking with each other or things like that. The world was not meant for a single person to be able to speak to hundreds of thousands of people or to manipulate hundreds of thousands of images per day. It's actually—I find it terrifying. Like, the fact that me, a normal person, has a Twitter following that, you know, if I wanted to, I can have 50 million impressions in a month. This is not a normal thing for a normal human being to have.And so, I think that as we build this technology, we have to also say, we're changing the landscape of human ethics by our ability to act at scale. And yes, you're right. Regulation is possibly one way that can help this, but I think that we also need to embed cultural values in how we're using the technology and how we're shaping our businesses to use the technology. It can be used responsibly. I mean, like I said, ChatGPT helped me with a visa issue, sending an email to the immigration office in Berlin. That's a fantastic thing. That's a net positive for me; hopefully, for humanity. I wasn't about to pay a lawyer to do it. But where's the balance, right? And it's a complex topic.Corey: It is. It absolutely is. There is one last topic that I would like to talk to you about that's a little less heavy. And I've got to be direct with you that I'm not trying to be unkind, but you've disappointed me. Because you mentioned to me at one point, when I asked how things were going in your AWS universe, you said, “Well, aside from the bank heist, reasonably well.”And I thought that you were blessed as with something I always look for, which is the gift of glorious metaphor. Unfortunately, as I said, you've disappointed me. It was not a metaphor; it was the literal truth. What the hell kind of bank heist could possibly affect an AWS account? This sounds like something out of a movie. Hit me with it.Emily: Yeah, you know, I think in the SRE world, we tell people to focus on the high probability, low impact things because that's where it's going to really hurt your business, and let the experts deal with the black swan events because they're pretty unlikely. You know, a normal business doesn't have to worry about terrorists breaking into the Google data center or a gang of thieves breaking into a bank vault. Apparently, that is something that I have to worry about because I have some data in my personal life that I needed to protect, like all other people. And I decided, like a reasonable and secure and smart human being who has a little bit of extra spending cash that I would do the safer thing and take my backup hard drive and my old phones and put them in a safety deposit box at an old private bank that has, you know, a vault that's behind the meter-and-a-half thick steel door and has two guards all the time, cameras everywhere. And I said, “What is the safest possible thing that you can do to store your backups?” Obviously, you put it in a secure storage location, right? And then, you know, I don't use my AWS account, my personal AWS account so much anymore. I have work accounts. I have test accounts—Corey: Oh, yeah. It's honestly the best way to have an AWS account is just having someone else having a payment instrument attached to it because otherwise oh God, you're on the hook for that yourself and nobody wants that.Emily: Absolutely. And you know, creating new email addresses for new trial accounts is really just a pain in the ass. So, you know, I have my phone, you know, from five years ago, sitting in this bank vault and I figured that was pretty secure. Until I got an email [laugh] from the Berlin Polizei saying, “There has been a break-in.” And I went and I looked at the news and apparently, a gang of thieves has pulled off the most epic heist in recent European history.This is barely in the news. Like, unless you speak German, you're probably not going to find any news about this. But a gang of thieves broke into this bank vault and broke open the safety deposit boxes. And it turns out that this vault was also the location where a luxury watch consigner had been storing his watches. So, they made off with some, like, tens of millions of dollars of luxury watches. And then also the phone that had my 2FA for my Amazon account. So, the total value, you know, potential theft of this was probably somewhere in the $500 million range if they set up a SageMaker instance on my account, perhaps.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Honeycomb. I'm not going to dance around the problem. Your. Engineers. Are. Burned. Out. They're tired from pagers waking them up at 2 am for something that could have waited until after their morning coffee. Ring Ring, Who's There? It's Nagios, the original call of duty! They're fed up with relying on two or three different “monitoring tools” that still require them to manually trudge through logs to decipher what might be wrong. Simply put, there's a better way. Observability tools like Honeycomb (and very little else becau se they do admittedly set the bar) show you the patterns and outliers of how users experience your code in complex and unpredictable environments so you can spend less time firefighting and more time innovating. It's great for your business, great for your engineers, and, most importantly, great for your customers. Try FREE today at honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud. That's honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud.Corey: The really annoying part that you are going to kick yourself on about this—and I'm not kidding—is, I've looked up the news articles on this event and it happened, something like two or three days after AWS put out the best release of last years, or any other re:Invent—past, present, future—which is finally allowing multiple MFA devices on root accounts. So finally, we can stop having safes with these things or you can have two devices or you can have multiple people in Covid times out of remote sides of different parts of the world and still get into the thing. But until then, nope. It's either no MFA or you have to store it somewhere ridiculous like that and access becomes a freaking problem in the event that the device is lost, or in this case stolen.Emily: [laugh]. I will just beg the thieves, if you're out there, if you're secretly actually a bunch of cloud engineers who needed to break into a luxury watch consignment storage vault so that you can pay your cloud bills, please have mercy on my poor AWS account. But also I'll tell you that the credit card attached to it is expired so you won't have any luck.Corey: Yeah. Really sad part. Despite having the unexpired credit card, it just means that the charge won't go through. They're still going to hold you responsible for it. It's the worst advice I see people—Emily: [laugh].Corey: Well, intentioned—giving each other on places like Reddit where the other children hang out. And it's, “Oh, just use a prepaid gift card so it can only charge you so much.” It's yeah, and then you get exploited like someone recently was and start accruing $60,000 a day in Lambda charges on an otherwise idle account and Amazon will come after you with a straight face after a week. And, like, “Yes, we'd like our $360,000, please.”Emily: Yes.Corey: “We tried to charge the credit card and wouldn't you know, it expired. Could you get on that please? We'd like our money faster if you wouldn't mind.” And then you wind up in absolute hell. Now, credit where due, they in every case I am aware of that is not looking like fraud's close cousin, they have made it right, on some level. But it takes three weeks of back and forth and interminable waiting.And you're sitting there freaking out, especially if you're someone who does not have a spare half-million dollars sitting around. Imagine who—“You sound poor. Have you tried not being that?” And I'm firmly convinced that it a matter of time until someone does something truly tragic because they don't understand that it takes forever, but it will go away. And from my perspective, there's no bigger problem that AWS needs to fix than surprise lifelong earnings bills to some poor freaking student who is just trying to stand up a website as part of a class.Emily: All of the clouds have these missing stairs in them. And it's really easy because they make it—one of the things that a lot of the cloud providers do is they make it really easy for you to spin up things to test them. And they make it really, really hard to find where it is to shut it all down. The data science is awful at this. As a data scientist, I work with a lot of data science tools, and every cloud has, like, the spin up your magical data science computing environment so that your data scientist can, like, bang on the data with you know, high-performance compute for a while.And you know, it's one click of a button and you type in a couple of na—you know, a couple of things name, your service or whatever, name your resource. You click a couple buttons and you spin it up, but behind the scenes, it's setting up a Kubernetes cluster and it's setting up some storage bucket and it's setting up some data pipelines and it's setting up some monitoring stuff and it's setting up a VM in order to run all of this stuff. And the next thing that you know, you're burning 100, 200 euro a day, just to, like, to figure out if you can load a CSV into pandas using a Jupyter Notebook. And you're like—when you try to shut it all down, you can't. It's you have to figure, oh, there is a networking thing set up. Well, nobody told me there's a networking thing set up. You know? How do I delete that?Corey: You didn't say please, so here you go. Without for me, it's not even the giant bill going from $4 a month in S3 charges to half a million bucks because that is pretty obvious from the outside just what the hell's been happening. It's the little stuff. I am still—since last summer—waiting for a refund on $260 of ‘because we said so' SageMaker credits because of a change of their billing system, for a 45-minute experiment I had done eight months before that.Emily: Yep.Corey: Wild stuff. Wild stuff. And I have no tolerance for people saying, “Oh, you should just read the pricing page and understand it better.” Yeah, listen, jackhole. I do this for a living. If I can fall victim to it, anyone can. I promise. It is not that I don't know how the billing system works and what to do to avoid unexpected charges.And I'm just luck—because if I hadn't caught it with my systems three days into the month, it would have been a $2,000 surprise. And yeah, I run a company. I can live with that. I wouldn't be happy, but whatever. It is immaterial compared to, you know, payroll.Emily: I think it's kind of a rite of passage, you know, to have the $150 surprise Redshift bill at the end of the month from your personal test account. And it's sad, you know? I think that there's so much better that they can do and that they should do. Sort of as a tangent, one of the challenges that I see in the data space is that it's so hard to break into data because the tooling is so complex and it requires so much extra knowledge, right? If you want to become a software developer, you can develop a microservice on your machine, you can build a web app on your machine, you can set up Ruby on Rails, or Flask, or you know, .NET, or whatever you want. And you can do all of that locally.And you can learn everything you need to know about React, or Terraform, or whatever, running locally. You can't do that with data stuff. You can't do that with BigQuery. You can't do that with Redshift. The only way that you can learn this stuff is if you have an account with that setup and you're paying the money to execute on it. And that makes it a really high barrier for entry for anyone to get into this space. It makes it really hard to learn. Because if you want to learn anything by doing, like many of us in the industry have done, it's going to cost you a ton of money just to [BLEEP] around and find out.Corey: Yes. And no one likes the find out part of those stories.Emily: Nobody likes to find out when it comes to your bill.Corey: And to tie it back to the data story of it, it is clearly some form of batch processing because it tries to be an eight-hour consistency model. Yeah, I assume for everything, it's 72. But what that means is that you are significantly far removed from doing a thing and finding out what that thing costs. And that's the direct charges. There's always the oh, I'm going to set things up and it isn't going to screw you over on the bill. You're just planting a beautiful landmine you're going to stumble blindly into in three months when you do something else and didn't realize what that means.And the worst part is it feels victim-blamey. I mean, this is my pro—I guess this is one of the reasons I guess I'm so down on data, even now. It's because I contextualize it in a sense of the AWS bill. No one's happy dealing with that. You ever met a happy accountant? You have not.Emily: Nope. Nope [laugh]. Especially when it comes to clouds stuff.Corey: Oh yeah.Emily: Especially these days, when we're all looking to save energy, save money in the cloud.Corey: Ideally, save the planet. Sustainability and saving money align on the axis of ‘turn that shit off.' It's great. We can hope for a brighter tomorrow.Emily: Yep.Corey: I really want to thank you for being so generous with your time. If people want to learn more, where can they find you? Apparently filing police reports after bank heists, which you know, it's a great place to meet people.Emily: Yeah. You know, the largest criminal act in Berlin is certainly a place you want to go to get your cloud advice. You can find me, I have a website. It's my name, emilygorcenski.com.You can find me on Twitter, but I don't really post there anymore. And I'm on Mastodon at some place because Mastodon is weird and kind of a mess. But if you search me, I'm really not that hard to find. My name is harder to spell, but you'll see it in the podcast description.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to all of this in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.Emily: Thank you for having me.Corey: Emily Gorcenski, Data and AI Service Line Lead at ThoughtWorks. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry, insipid, insulting comment, talking about why data doesn't actually matter at all. And then the comment will disappear into the ether because your podcast platform of choice feels the same way about your crappy comment.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

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Episode 142   Yeah baby (goats)... the Beasts are BACK in a big, horny way .  We cover the army wide rules then dive into the Path to Glory for the narrative players!  This is a great one, and very strong, like the book.  Also contains 100% more goat noises than previous episodes!     Contact us!   Our Discord - https://discord.gg/TCuEBrXNmd   Patreon Page for Rolling Bad Podcast - www.patreon.com/rollingbadpodcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/RollingBadPodcast/ Rolling Bad podcast Feed site - http://rollingbad.libsyn.com/ Twitter - @rolling_bad Our E-Mail - rollingbadpodcast@gmail.com Our Instagram Page:  therollingbadpodcast   The Hosts and their Social Media Links;   Bill Twitter: @billcastello IG: PhantomPhixer42 Facebook: Bill Castello   Josh IG: @hereticmodel Twitter: @anoyoe Facebook: Joshua Alt Discord: Guts#4698   Links that we like!   We are the NEON - wearetheneon.com Tabletop Campaign Repository - tcrepo.com   AoS Coach -   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQMNLM_JuDNLbvGG0ZUA8ow Cubic Shenanigans - https://cubicshenanigans.net/ Realm and Ruin Podcast - https://www.realmandruin.com/ Garagehammer - www.garagehammer.net Forge The Narrative - forgethenarrative.net Sonic Sledgehammer on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG0ZCl2VfG9PcCJyucWJR3w AoS Shorts - https://aosshorts.com/ Eric's Hobby Workshop - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa4VfDx98uJT5Tn6Vyc0U1A Miscast - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUtsRCYEE-hCPsftezm9wzA Midwinter Minis - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9XTzwex6rGLVUGS9cLKFLw AoS Reminders - https://aosreminders.com/ Bill's YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAK8mhid8bUUq2x_lc2l3xg   "Take a Chance" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Everything about this is wrong This week we discuss the digital transformation of paid TV, the struggle to modernize the IRS and DHH's MRSK project. Plus, Matt is Factorio famous… Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode 403 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ep_x-LOg4M) Runner-up Titles Forbidden Everything needs cables Got to be Grammarly I've got a lot of hills to die on A hatred for their customers They wanted to hate your corpse Except for The Wu-Tang Saga You've abandoned the ship No, no, we need to spy on you You are gaslighting what your selling I wouldn't touch this Full of chef kiss quotes Rundown What the NBA Can Learn From Formula 1 (https://stratechery.com/2023/what-the-nba-can-learn-from-formula-1/) IRS tech is so ‘archaic' the agency struggles to find people to work it (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/24/irs-technology-gao-report-archaic/) Screaming in the Cloud #357: Stepping Onto the AWS Commerce Platform with James Greenfield (https://www.lastweekinaws.com/podcast/screaming-in-the-cloud/stepping-onto-the-aws-commerce-platform-with-james-greenfield/) US Digital Service (https://www.usds.gov/) Individual Master File (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Master_File) Introducing MRSK (https://world.hey.com/dhh/introducing-mrsk-9330a267) mrsked/mrsk (https://github.com/mrsked/mrsk) Justin Garrison @rothgar's take (https://twitter.com/rothgar/status/1630634683313848320) Relevant to your Interests After Fraud Charges Against Slync's Ex-CEO, Goldman Sachs Doubles Down With $24 Million Investment (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjeans/2023/02/22/slync-goldman-sachs-chris-kirchner-funding/?sh=52642f354594) ChatGPT-style search represents a 10x cost increase for Google, Microsoft (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/02/chatgpt-style-search-represents-a-10x-cost-increase-for-google-microsoft/) Why everyone's talking about Section 230 - The Hustle (https://thehustle.co/02232023-Section-230/) Reveal Survey Report: Top Software Development Challenges For 2023 (https://www.revealbi.io/whitepapers/reveal-survey-report-top-software-development-challenges-for-2023) Microsoft previews cost-efficient Azure VMs (https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/22/microsoft_cheap_azure_vms/) DOJ Preps Antitrust Suit to Block Adobe's $20 Billion Figma Deal (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-23/doj-preparing-suit-to-block-adobe-s-20-billion-deal-for-figma) Oracle Cloud Made All The Right Moves In 2022 - Moor Insights & Strategy (https://moorinsightsstrategy.com/oracle-cloud-made-all-the-right-moves-in-2022/) DoJ to block Adobe purchase of Figma on competition concerns (https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/24/doj_to_block_adobe_purchase/) Your jailbroken ChatGPT might violate OpenAI's safety guidelines when role-playing as ‘DAN' (https://www.fastcompany.com/90845689/chatgpt-dan-jailbreak-violence-reddit-rules) Is WebAssembly Really the Future? (https://thenewstack.io/is-webassembly-really-the-future/) Elon Musk says remaining Twitter employees will receive ‘very significant' stock awards on March 24th (https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/27/23616933/elon-musk-twitter-employees-stock-awards-march-after-more-layoffs) Salesforce weighing up more job cuts to hit margin goal (https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/27/salesforce_job_losses_not_over/) Alphabet Needs to Replace Sundar Pichai (https://www.theinformation.com/articles/alphabet-needs-to-replace-sundar-pichai) LastPass Reveals Second Attack Resulting in Breach of Encrypted Password Vaults (https://thehackernews.com/2023/02/lastpass-reveals-second-attack.html) Stack Overflow Stats (https://twitter.com/sahnlam/status/1629713954225405952) Nonsense Twitter had 88,188 channel (https://twitter.com/zoeschiffer/status/1630346916335865857?s=46&t=DiH5HJagHYkpKEP13Yz6Cg%20%20Zoë%20SchifferZoë%20Schiffer%20@ZoeSchiffer) but they don't have THE THREAD. (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/archives/C5GPMBXQT/p1590186505165200) Sponsors The MacGeekGab.com Podcast (https://www.macgeekgab.com) provides tips, Cool Stuff Found, and answers to your questions about anything and everything Apple. Subscribe now! (https://www.macgeekgab.com/subscribe-to-podcast/) Conferences Southern California Linux Expo, (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/20x) Los Angeles, March 9-12, 2023 Matt (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/20x/presentations/kubernetes-cloud-cost-monitoring-opencost-optimization-strategies) & Cote (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/20x/presentations/lessons-learned-7-years-running-developer-platforms)! Use Discount Code: DEVOP Coté and Matt arranging a live recording. PyTexas 2023, Austin, TX April 1 - 2, 2023 (https://www.pytexas.org) KubeCon EU Amsterdam, April 18-21 (https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-europe/) - Matt & Cote will be there DevOpsDays Birmingham, AL 2023 (https://devopsdays.org/events/2023-birmingham-al/welcome/), April 20 - 21, 2023 DevOpsDays Austin 2023 (https://devopsdays.org/events/2023-austin/welcome/), May 4-5 SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Get a SDT Sticker! Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured). Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté's book, Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. Become a sponsor of Software Defined Talk (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads)! Recommendations Brandon: (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-5-Tier-Industrial-Duty-Steel-Freestanding-Garage-Storage-Shelving-Unit-in-Black-90-in-W-x-90-in-H-x-24-in-D-N2W902490W5B/319132842) Drive to Survive Season 5 (https://www.netflix.com/title/80204890) Matt Factorio Story Missions (https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Story-Missions) Recent podcast appearances Software Engineering Daily (https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2023/02/10/kubernetes-cost-management/) The Cloudcast (https://www.thecloudcast.net/2022/07/kubernetes-cost-management.html) Open Observability Talks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhqXQV2jsxo) Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/photos/kAJLRQwt5yY) CoverArt (https://unsplash.com/photos/U-Vu_r6qyyU)

Raj Bala, Founder of Perspect, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to chat about his experiences working in the world of cloud and why he made the shift from Gartner Analyst to Founder. Raj asks the question, “Is AWS truly customer-obsessed?” in the face of their business practices, and challenges the common notion that analysts don't need to have lived experience with a product to criticize it. Raj and Corey also explore the absurdity of Azure naming conventions, how cloud providers are creating roadblocks to multi-cloud, and the response of the greater public as cloud providers become more and more powerful. About RajRaj Bala, formerly a VP, Analyst at Gartner, led the Magic Quadrant for Cloud Infrastructure and Platform Services since its inception and led the Magic Quadrant for IaaS before that.  He is deeply in-tune with market dynamics both in the US and Europe, but also extending to China, Africa and Latin America.  Raj is also a software developer and is capable of building and deploying scalable services on the cloud providers to which he wrote about as a Gartner analyst.  As such, Raj is now building Perspect, which is a SaaS offering at the intersection of AI and E-commerce.Raj's favorite language is Python and he is obsessed with making pizza and ice cream. Links Referenced: Perspect: https://perspect.com former2.com: https://former2.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/raj

Hope and Jackie are back at it again, returning with some ear hole goodness. This time we discuss fashion icon, punk musician, and writer Poly Styrene. She wore a highlighter color scheme that interlaced with her sound, poetry, and art. Her fashion shouted out to the world how scrupulous her frenemy relationship to Dayglo could be. So we dove into the world of Dayglo and asked the important questions, like wtf is Dayglo anyway? Well we get into it and it isn't what you think it is. Tune in to find out!   Some resources for this episode: Punk Legend Poly Styrene's Untold Fashion Influence by Scarlett Newman Poly Styrene: I Am A Cliche Documentary Poly Styrene wikipedia https://rbkclibraries.wordpress.com/2013/11/20/fade-to-grey-fashion-and-music-from-the-1980s/ https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/82792/brief-history-day-glo https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-03/la-me-col1-day-glo-art-fading-lacma-saturn-yellow   We're socialists, so follow us on our socials! @fashismpod on Instagram and TikTok Email us at fashismpod@gmail.com

S2E18 - PRE-FLIGHT SCREAMING The time has come to uncloud Claire's memories, with the hope to learn more before they try and take on a Space launch by some of the most powerful corporations in Night City. The crew gather some things, cut straight to an upgrade and take off into the NC-SPACE location. Will Vivi get extra credit for this? Can Jeb resist a good hat? Does Ioanna really want to be Sally Fields? Only the dice will tell. If you'd like to support us, We now have a Patreon! Patreon.com/nolatency More info can be found here: linktr.ee/NoLatency More information and MERCH is on our website! www.nolatencypodcast.com Twitter: @nolatencypod Instagram: nolatency_podcast Find @SkullorJade, @Miss_Magitek and @Binary_Dragon on twitch, for live D&D and more. #cyberpunkred #actualplay #ttrpg #radioplay #scifi

We chat possible outcomes for Scream 6, top 13 characters we love and hate from the Scream franchise and we remember a Friday friend.

Wayne Duso, VP of Storage, Edge and Data Governance Services at AWS and Nancy Wang, GM of AWS Data Protection, both join Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss data protection and analysis at AWS. Wayne and Nancy describe how AWS Backup has scaled to protect over 90% of the data stored on AWS today. Nancy explains how her team specializes in helping AWS customers develop custom solutions for their specific data needs, and the way that AWS has built out new tools and services to accommodate that customization. Wayne also reveals how important data analysis is to the AWS team when it comes to improving services and developing ground-breaking new innovations. About WayneProfessionally, Wayne is a Vice President at Amazon Web Services (AWS) where he leads a set of businesses delivering cloud infrastructure services. In 2013, he founded and continues to lead the AWS Boston regional development center. Wayne is an always-curious entrepreneur who is passionate about building innovative teams and businesses that deliver highly disruptive value to customers. He loves engaging people who build and deliver customer-obsessed solutions, as well as customers wanting to realize value from those solutions. Wayne also holds over 40 patents in distributed and highly-available computer systems, digital video processing, and file systems. Personally, Wayne is a proud dad to great people, and loves to cook and grow things, it relaxes and grounds him, and he cherishes finding adventure in the ordinary as well as the extraordinary.About NancyNancy Wang is a global product and technical leader at Amazon Web Services, where she leads P&L, product, engineering, and design for its data protection and governance businesses. Prior to Amazon, she led SaaS product development at Rubrik, the fastest-growing enterprise software unicorn and built healthdata.gov for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Passionate about advancing more women into technical roles, Nancy is the founder & CEO of Advancing Women in Tech, a global 501(c)(3) nonprofit with 16,000+ members spanning three continents.Nancy is an angel investor in data security and compliance companies, and an LP with several seed- and growth-stage funds such as Operator Collective and IVP. She earned a degree in computer science from the University of Pennsylvania.Links Referenced:re:Invent talk with Nancy and Neha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELSm3WgR8RE

Suspense, originally broadcast March 1, 1955, The Screaming Woman. A couple of kids hear a screaming woman, who is buried alive! Also Part 4 of a 5 part Yours Truly Johnny Dollar story The Fathom Five Matter, originally broadcast March 1, 1956. A crazy kid in love, a right decision by a court, and the whole case smashes wide open.Visit my web page - http://www.classicradio.streamWe receive no revenue from YouTube. If you enjoy our shows, listen via the links on our web page or if you're so inclined, Buy me a coffee! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/wyattcoxelAHeard on almost 100 radio stations from coast to coast. Classic Radio Theater features great radio programs that warmed the hearts of millions for the better part of the 20th century. Host Wyatt Cox brings the best of radio classics back to life with both the passion of a long-time (as in more than half a century) fan and the heart of a forty-year newsman. But more than just “playing the hits”, Wyatt supplements the first hour of each day's show with historical information on the day and date in history including audio that takes you back to World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. FDR, Eisenhower, JFK, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ. It's a true slice of life from not just radio's past, but America's past.Wyatt produces 21 hours a week of freshly minted Classic Radio Theater presentations each week, and each day's broadcast is timely and entertaining!

This week, Liz and Evan are forced into a heated debate about tough choices as they tackle the Netflix horror film CIRCLE! Join them as they discuss their history with high school philosophy class debates, ponder the ethics of sacrifice, and get heated about whether or not this movie justified its own existence. If, you, too, love Twelve Angry Men, then be sure to check out nowscreaming.com, and come visit us on Twitter @nowscreaming. If they board, make sure you rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. We promise we won't kill you just for having an opinion.

Glenn Miller And Sustain The Wings-431218-First Song-Hear You Screaming http://oldtimeradiodvd.com  or Nostalgia USA PRIME Roku Channel

Have you noticed the ability to be objective and critically think through topics and issues is rapidly disappearing from society, especially in the U.S.?  Screaming heads on TV. All or nothing politics. The work being done to trigger emotion, segment people into all-or-nothing groups does not help leaders make better decisions and organizations to reach full potential. In this episode, Eric and Dale tackle the challenge and provide  game changing approaches to make critical thinking your most powerful psychological tool. Break through the cultural noise to seriously evaluate the present and prepare for the future. 

The housing market has entered into a new era never measured before. As of a recent update from Moody's Analytics, the rent-to-income ratio across the US has reached an average of 30%. And while this may not seem like a big deal to casual investors, it has wide-reaching implications that could cause the housing market to move in different directions. This is the first time a rent-to-income ratio has hit this high percentage point, which could spell bad news for landlords. Lu Chen and Thomas LaSalvia from Moody's Commercial Real Estate division are joining us to explain the entire story behind the data. They have been closely monitoring the steadily rising rent prices for decades. With pandemic-fueled migration, Lu and Thomas both believe that we're living in one of the most troubling times for renters. But how did this come to be? With massive housing development across the nation, what's causing rents to remain so high? The answer isn't what you might expect. Lu and Thomas have seen developers shift focus to certain housing types, leaving much of the middle class in a rent squeeze. This “missing middle” could explain why so many families are paying a solid portion of their income to rent every month. But with reasonably priced rentals becoming a hot commodity, what can landlords do to ease the burden and open up more housing for those who need it most? And where will rent head next after it's broken through this previously unshatterable ceiling? Tune in and find out! In This Episode We Cover Housing affordability and why America just crossed into “rent-burdened” territory  The “ecosystem effect” and how pricier developments hurt the middle class Housing demand and why work-from-home hotspots put strain on the system  Housing markets where rent is declining and the rent-to-income ratio is weakening  Where Americans are moving to and why some millennials are staying away from the suburbs   Real estate development and which housing types are getting built  Comparing today's rent crisis to 2008 and why a housing correction doesn't always equal a rent crash  And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Investor-Friendly Real Estate Agent BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Agent BiggerPockets Bootcamps Join BiggerPockets for FREE On The Market Join the Future of Real Estate Investing with Fundrise Connect with Other Investors in the “On The Market” Forums Subscribe to The “On The Market” YouTube Channel Dave's BiggerPockets Profile Dave's Instagram Moody's CRE Website Key Takeaways from 4th Quarter Connect with Lu and Thomas: Lu's Email Thomas' Email Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/on-the-market-81 Interested in learning more about today's sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our sponsor page!

A short but sweet one for you! Angela Bassett did the thing! Viola Davis is our Woman King! Ariana Debose - lean in! Reactivate your Twitter! Also Outer Banks is Back! Our ACOTAR book club continues! Finally, the Selena Gomez x Hailey Bieber beef will apparently never ever end.

In this episode, Elmer Maurits of the downtempo, deathcore band Distant talks about being a European band but living in different countries, the love of touring and traveling, the custom guitars and basses needed for playing downtuned music, the importance of melody and moods for extreme music, and what it means to have signed with the label Century Media. Plus, the importance of defined business roles within bands, getting on big festivals, and offering other types of media like books along with music. You can check out Distant at the following locations: https://distantofficial.com/ https://www.instagram.com/distantofficial/ https://www.facebook.com/DistantOfficial/about?ref=page_internal https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_ibbxHtF92pAQU-UIrjDQ Paul works a day job and puts out vinyl and puts on shows via Katzulhu Productions https://www.facebook.com/paul.neil.12 https://www.facebook.com/katzulhu https://www.facebook.com/Dont-Quit-Your-Day-Job-podcast-107924851339602

Fouad Matin, Co-founder & CEO of Indent, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss how to get data security right without creating unnecessary barriers for your development team. Fouad and Corey discuss how getting admin access as a developer can be time consuming and vague, when it should be efficient and come with an easily defined reason for granting access. Fouad also explains why he feels most breaches are due to not getting the basics right, and why he feels storing customer and sensitive data should be done with the same principles as dealing with hazardous waste.About FouadFouad Matin is the co-founder and CEO of Indent, a security company that enables teams to perform mission-critical operations faster and more securely. With Indent, organizations like HackerOne, Modern Treasury, Vercel, and PlanetScale are able to grant secure, time-bound user and admin permissions for cloud apps and infrastructure through Slack.Prior to Indent, Fouad worked as an engineer at Segment, a customer data platform helping companies secure their pipelines for handling customer data. He co-founded a non-partisan non-profit in 2016 to help people register and get out to vote through easy-to-use, privacy preserving tools. In 2018, while validating Indent's mission, partnered with Vote.org to build tools for users to find their polling place and preview their ballot using client-side encryption.Links Referenced: Indent: https://indent.com Nobody Should Have Production Access: https://indent.com/blog/production Fouad on Twitter: https://twitter.com/fouadmatin Indent on Twitter: https://twitter.com/indent Unplanned Maintenance: https://unplannedmaintenance.com Least Privilege in Practice Blog Post from Indent: https://indent.com/blog/least-privilege Additional Links Referenced: Email: mailto:fouad@indent.com Fouad LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/indentinc/ Indent LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fouadmatin/

You are driving in the car and your baby starts to scream in the back seat. You feel your body tense up, your stress hormone is rising and you are feeling super triggered. What do you do? In this episode you will learn:-5 practical in-the-moment strategies to remain calm and regulated when your baby is screaming-What to do when you are starting to experience mom rage toward your baby-Mindset shifts that will reduce frustrationFeeling frustrated, triggered and even stressed when you have a screaming baby is normal. You are not a bad mom for feeling those emotions. I will teach you ways to cope so you can remain calm in those tough moments. Share with a mama who has a little baby!Related episodes: Ep 34: Experiencing mom rage toward a colic baby // Lily BondarenkoEp 49: How do you actually handle frustrations of life? Tips to reduce explosions when feeling frustratedEp 50:  I feel like I'm failing at mom life. How do other moms have it all figured out? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Next Steps: Download Free Guide: 5 Powerful effective and simple ways to reduce overwhelm Get support: 45 min Coaching call Emotionally Healthy Mom Course 1:1 Coaching Program Discovery/Clarity call ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Website: emotionallyhealthylegacy.comContact: hello@emotionallyhealthylegacy.comSubmit a Question to be answered on the showLeave me a voice memo with a questionSupport this podcast for a small monthly donation

Jon can't defend Mayor Pete. David can't believe Biden didn't say “cars and trucks." Watch David's show DICKTOWN on Hulu http://bit.ly/dicktown Support us on Patreon at http://patreon.com/electionprofitmakers Send your election prediction questions to contact@electionprofitmakers.com

Inside this episode I'm answering this "Ask Jen" question: "my 4-month-old has suddenly started screaming as soon as she is put in her sleep sack in a dark room. Until now, she was an excellent sleeper and could settle herself in the bassinet with a bit of singing. It's like she fears sleep. What is causing this? What can I do?" This episode dives into the likely cause of why this is happening for this family, and where they can start to look at making changes. If you'd love the roadmap to confidently understanding and supporting your newborn's feeding, sleep, health and development in their first 4-months so you have all the skills you need to have a settled, sleeping and thriving babe, you can learn about Raising Newborns by clicking here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mai-Lan Tomsen Bukovec, Vice President of Foundational Data Services at AWS, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss her technique for spending time intentionally and prioritizing work-life balance called balcony-hopping. Mai-Lan explains how she created the concept of balcony-hopping and how it has helped her to be a better leader, mother, wife, and boxer. Corey and Mai-Lan discuss how in today's age, attention is a form of currency and why it's so important to be intentional with how and where you spend your attention. Mai-Lan also offers practical insights to anyone seeking to feel more productive, present, and balanced. About Mai-LanMai-Lan Tomsen Bukovec is Vice President, Foundational Data Services (FDS) at Amazon Web Services (AWS) and leads a number of high-scale AWS cloud services that provide storage and streaming of petabytes or exabytes of data and essential building blocks for modern application architecture like queuing and notifications, monitoring, alarming, logging and reliability validation. Mai-Lan's teams include some of AWS' first and largest-scale services like Amazon S3 and Simple Queue Service (SQS) to more recent and fast-growing services like managed open source streaming (Amazon Managed Streaming for Apache Kafka).Prior to joining Amazon, Mai-Lan spent almost 15 years in engineering and product leadership roles at technology companies including Microsoft and early stage startups. She began her technology career after serving in the U.S. Peace Corps in the Mopti region of Africa as a Forestry volunteer after earning her degree from University of California, San Diego.At Amazon, Mai-Lan is an advisor to Asians@Amazon, creator and sponsor of internal leadership development programs for Amazon employees, and is passionate about AWS initiatives and cloud services that maximize human potential everywhere.Mai-Lan has three children and lives in Seattle with her family. When she is not working on Amazon cloud services and spending time with her husband and kids, Mai-Lan trains primarily in boxing with additional practice in the martial art Savate.Links Referenced: LinkedIn post “Live Your Best Life Through Balcony Hopping”: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/live-your-best-life-through-balcony-hopping-mai-lan-tomsen-bukovec/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mailan/

A chapter deep dive on the scene that begs more questions then ever gives answers on a whole slew of topics. Come along as we talk everything from Gods, questionable parentages, the source of nosebleeds and general existential dread… so a normal Tuesday here.

Kate Davis talks with Jessica Grose, New York Times opinion writer, about her new book “Screaming on the inside: the Unsustainability of American Motherhood”

Ronnie, Jesse, Mark, and Pat sit down to talk about the impact Toy's R Us had on their lives. Toys R Us closed down because it had billions of dollars in debt and could no longer invest the money required to keep up with competition. This ultimately led to the company filing for bankruptcy and selling or closing its last remaining stores. Disclaimer: The following may contain offensive language, adult humor, and/or content that some viewers may find offensive – The views and opinions expressed by any one speaker does not explicitly or necessarily reflect or represent those of Mark Radulich or W2M Network.   Mark Radulich and his wacky podcast on all the things: https://linktr.ee/markkind76 also snapchat: markkind76 FB Messenger: Mark Radulich LCSW Tiktok: @markradulich twitter: @MarkRadulich

Our offseason checklist, We catch up with Vinny the Trophy guy from the parade and get his story on taking pic with Mahomes and his replica Lombardi, Newest Royals HOFer Ned Yost joins the show

Kannan Solaiappan, Head of Reliability and Data Engineering at Circles Life, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss building a team in a start-up environment and the complexities of balancing reliability and security with scale. Kannan describes the challenges of building a semi-platform multiple instances model and how products like Severalnines have helped identify and optimize potential problems before they affect customers. Kannan and Corey also discuss the impact that major outages had on the world at large when it came to fault-tolerance on entry points, and Kannan explains how guardrails can improve reliability without creating the same resistance from engineers that governance can. About KannanWith over 20 years of experience in the technology industry, Kannan Solaiappan is a highly motivated and passionate leader with a track record of driving results. With a background in software development, operations, architecture, security, and Agile transformation, Kannan has served as a Head of DevOps/Reliability/Data Engineering & Architecture, managing budgets of over 10 million dollars. Kannan has successfully led teams of up to 80 members and has a strong background in building and maintaining world-class organizational structures and cultures.Currently, Kannan is leading a team of SRE, DevOps, and Data Engineering professionals at Circles Life, Asia's first fully digital telco, where Kannan  is working towards building the world's best Telco SAAS platform with a focus on CiCD, observability, reliability, resilience, and security.Kannan has a diverse set of skills including IT Service Management, team management, IT strategy, vendor management, site reliability engineering, Architecture and leadership.Links Referenced: Severalnines: https://severalnines.com/ Circles.Life: https://circles.life Circles.Life Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/circleslifesg/ Circles.Life Twitter: https://twitter.com/circleslifesg Circles.Life Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CirclesLifeSG/

[mature language and violence] Roy Chambers, self-proclaimed "artist of junk" becomes suspicious about the intricate work of another sculptor. Written and Produced by Julie Hoverson Cast List Roy Chambers - J.D. Lloyd Gwynneth Robinson Molly Tollefson Vivienne - Rhys TM Robert - Mr. Synyster Arturo - Philemon Vanderbeck Solange - Angela Kirby Penelope Cartwright - Kris Keppeler Hank Norton - Powers Chamber 19 Nocturne Theme:  Kevin MacLeod (Incompetech.com) All other music by Professor Kliq (Creative Commons License) Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover Photo:   (courtesy of Stock Xchange.com) "What kind of a place is it?  Why it's an art gallery - can't you just smell the culture?" _________________________________________________________ FOR ART'S SAKE Cast: Announcer Cabbie Olivia Roy Chambers, artist of junk Gwynneth Robinson, gallery owner Robert [ro-BEAR], art critic Vivienne, art critic Arturo, sculptor Solange, a supermodel Hank Norton, grieving brother Penelope Cartwright, psychic Gordie, aspiring young critic OLIVIA      Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's an art gallery.  Can't you just smell the culture? SCENE 1 MUSIC - PRETENTIOUS GRUNGE/INDUSTRIAL, BUT LOW. AMBIANCE     LOW CROWD MUMBLE ROBERT and VIVIENNE sound bored and disinterested - very, very jaded intellectual.  They are sort of fencing with each other. ROBERT     It's so innovative, it's almost retro. VIVIENNE     Jejune, yet piquant. ROBERT     The raw power of the chain link simply draws the eye. VIVIENNE     The underlying metaphor behind the cracked concrete base is very telling. ROBERT     Trash cans have been overused this season. VIVIENNE     Which is precisely what this piece is trying to say.  It is a commentary on the current state of the art world. ROY     That it's all garbage? ROBERT     [snort of derision] Garbage?  Perhaps to the petty and feeble mind, incapable of looking beyond the component parts-- VIVIENNE     --this one would look at a forest and see trees. [ROBERT AND VIVIENNE chuckle.] ROY     Oh, I understand this piece just fine. ROBERT     Do you?  Do you really?  VIVIENNE     What, then, is this putty-like brown graffitti in its indecipherable scrawl? ROBERT     And that smell - it's almost visceral. ROY     It's crap. ROBERT     You'd best keep your voice down, dear fellow.  The artist is a good friend of dear Gwynneth, our host tonight, and I hear he's actually graced us with his presence. ROY     No- no.  It's actually feces.  The graffitti.  I'm Roy Chambers.  The artist? VIVIENNE     F-feces?  Excrement? ROY     Yup. VIVIENNE     B-but...  doesn't it ... lose pungency after a time? ROY     Of course.  I freshen it up every couple of days.  I hope you don't mind if I don't shake hands. A BEAT OF SHOCKED SILENCE, THEN ROBERT     Well, that does put a new [trailing off] face ...on ...it.  VIVIENNE     Oh, look, they've opened the champagne. SOUND     HURRIED FOOTSTEPS AWAY ROY     [chuckles] GWYNNETH     [sigh] Darling, you'll never sell anything if you keep telling people your work is shit. ROY     [laughs harder]  You know that's not the point.  I just love seeing the look in their eyes.  GWYNNETH     Well, you may have the luxury of not needing to make your way as an artist, but I still need-- ROY     I can always-- GWYNNETH     [indignant]  Write me a check?  Not on your life, handsome.  If I can't make it, I'll fail on my own two feet.  [softening]  But you can buy me dinner.  Again. ROY     [chuckling] I wasn't going to suggest charity - but since I seem to be the one losing you sales on my pieces, you could let me pay rent for the space-- GWYNNETH     I don't understand why you're so down on your art.  [serious] It's good Roy.  It's powerful.  I wouldn't have it in my gallery otherwise... [rowr] no matter how terrific you are in bed. ROY     It makes me uncomfortable, like I'm ... exposing myself. GWYNNETH     That's what makes it so strong-- SCENE 2 SOUND     A COMMOTION IN THE BACKGROUND - SOMEONE YELLING - GETS LOUDER AS GWYNNETH AND ROY APPROACH GWYNNETH     [muttering as she hustles] Oh, goodness, it's not the man enclosed in legos with his winkie hanging out again, is it? ROY     [right behind her] Maybe a critic's seeing eye dog got at the sculpture in baloney. GWYNNETH     Poor dog - that meat's been here a week. ROY     Either one. SOUND     COMMOTION HAS ENDED - JUST HEAVY BREATHING FROM A COUPLE OF GUYS GWYNNETH     [authoritative] What is going on? ARTURO     This ...person... was ...molesting... my statue. ROY     [muttered] Is it the baloney?  GWYNNETH     [muttered] No. ROY     [muttered] The winkie? GWYNNETH     [muttered] Shh.  ARTURO     I demand charges be filed. HANK     I was only-- ARTURO     No one cares what you were trying to do, you philistine! GWYNNETH     Arturo.  ARTURO     Luddite!  Peon! GWYNNETH     Arturo!  Please, calm down.  I promise I shall handle this personally.  ARTURO     [going off] Just make sure he keeps his filthy hands off my beautiful marbles. ROY     [muttered] Maybe his marbles should meet lego man's winkie. GWYNNETH     [trying not to laugh] Ahem.  Now, sir, I'm Miss Robinson - and this is my gallery.  And you are? HANK     [subdued, apologetic, aw shucks] Hank - Henry, that is - Norton. GWYNNETH     What were you doing, then? HANK     The statue - it looks like Lizzie - Elizabeth - my sister.  Just like her.  ROY     That not what she asked. HANK     Well, I was thinking it might be like that old movie where the guy kills people, puts them in plaster and gets famous for his art...  Lizzie's missing, ever since she wrote and said she had a job modeling for this guy.  So I wanted to... check and see... GWYNNETH     [gentle] I don't know the movie, Hank, but I'm pretty sure you can't put someone in marble the way you might with plaster.  It simply doesn't work that way. HANK     No? GWYNNETH     No. ROY     Hank, let's get us a glass of that champagne. GWYNNETH     [stage whisper] Thank you! SOUND     QUICK KISS SCENE 3 MUSIC      A LITTLE TIME PASSES SOUND     EXCITED COMMOTION, CAMERAS GWYNNETH     Oh, god, what is it this time? ROBERT     [in awe] It's Solange.  She's here! VIVIENNE     [going off] If I were only into women... ROBERT     [going off] Me too... GWYNNETH     [sigh, then clearly trying to convince herself] It's good.  Publicity.  I like supermodels. ROY     [coming on] Who--? GWYNNETH     Solange is the latest sensation.  So bloody skinny. ROY     Better keep her away from the baloney. GWYNNETH     [slightly venomous] It would do her good. ROY     I didn't mean her - just the dog. SOUND     FOOTSTEPS AND JINGLE OF DOG HARNESS APPROACH GWYNNETH     Solange, I am honored. SOLANGE     [strange accent] Ah?  Sorree, and you are? GWYNNETH     I'm Gwynneth Robinson.  This is my gallery.  We are truly-- SOLANGE     Where ees Arturo? GWYNNETH     Right over there.  SOLANGE     Take mee to heem, pleez.  SOUND     JINGLE OF DOG'S HARNESS, SCRABBLE OF CLAWS ON FLOOR. GWYNNETH     My pleasure.  My arm is just to your right.  Would you like something to drink?  [fading out]  Perhaps some water for your service animal? ROY     Is that the latest thing - blind models? VIVIENNE     'Differently abled' darling.  You could get sued -- ROBERT     Or at least censured. VIVIENNE     --for use of non-PC language. ROBERT     Besides, with a body like that, who cares if she can see?  And the dark glasses are her trademark - she's never seen without them. ROY     Hmm.  You two seem like just the type I need. VIVIENNE     I don't do threesomes. ROBERT     I do. ROY     No, no - not like that, but [buttering up] you really seem to be in the know... VIVIENNE     Of course. ROBERT     Pity. ROY     This Arturo guy - what can you tell me about him? VIVIENNE     Quid pro quo, dear friend - tell us about you first. ROY     Well...  It's brownie mix - the brown stuff. ROBERT     Re-e-e-eally...?  SCENE 4 MUSIC SOUND      CLUNK OF OVERHEAD LIGHTS GOING OFF GWYNNETH      [coming on, low and sultry]  So.  The lights are off.  The crowd is gone.  And the door is locked against the night.  You know what that means? ROY     Hmm? GWYNNETH      Come on, love.  I need some serious stress relief. ROY     In a moment. GWYNNETH      What is so fascinating about these things?  First that poor little man - now you? ROY     Have you really looked at them? GWYNNETH      Dearest, I don't really look at anything that goes in here, beyond deciding if I think it will sell.  That way lies sheer madness. ROY     How did legoman get in? GWYNNETH      Oh, that. [sigh] I'm still not certain about that one.  ROY     Anyway, these statues - I don't know anything about marble sculpting, but I would assume it's not the easiest thing in the world, even with modern technology. GWYNNETH      I suppose. ROY     Look at the detail here.  The clothes, hair  - rivets in the jeans, even.  Everything is exact.  Perfect. GWYNNETH      So he's anal.  Surely you're not thinking that Arturo whats-his-name has somehow immured people in marble. ROY     Nah.  But I can see Hank's point.  His sister's statue looks - almost alive.  And she's not happy about it. MUSIC SCENE 5 AMBIANCE      RESTAURANT GWYNNETH      Where were you?  I really could have used you at the gallery tonight. ROY     Why?  What happened? GWYNNETH      I asked you first. ROY     [sigh]  I-I was trying to find that artist - the one with the statues. GWYNNETH      And--? ROY     He's harder to track down than ... than me. GWYNNETH      [laughs] Perhaps he's another eccentric with more money than sense. ROY     Hey--!  I thought that was part of my charm. GWYNNETH      No.  I love you.  But I don't make any claim to understand you.  You don't even like your own art. ROY     [slightly uncomfortable] It just comes out that way.  SOUND     A MOMENT OF EATING GWYNNETH      [unpleasantly surprised]  Oh god! Don't look.  It's her.  Just act normal. ROY     What?  Who am I not looking at? GWYNNETH      The commotion.  I mean the woman who caused the- PENELOPE     [off]  Hello! ROY     I think she's seen you. GWYNNETH      Oh, god. ROY     Is there anything I should know before she gets here? GWYNNETH      I'm going to be a coward and duck out for the loo. ROY     About her, I mean.  [beat]  You've got a moment, the maitre d' has her in a headlock. GWYNNETH      [laugh] She claims to be a psychic and made a fuss over Arturo's marbles.  God, I'm seriously regretting ever taking them on. ROY     Why did you?  I mean, looking at his stuff, he could be showcased in the biggest gallery in town, and- [trails off uncertainly] GWYNNETH      Rather than a piddling little upstart like mine?  Oh, hell-  See you! SOUND     GETS UP FROM CHAIR, DASHES AWAY ROY     Chicken. PENELOPE     [slightly off] Miss Robinson! SOUND     CHAIR SCRAPES ROY     She'll be right back.  PENELOPE     [coming on] Oh.  I'm so sorry - I didn't mean to interrupt - are you - you're her beau, aren't you? ROY     I'm her boyfriend, yeah. SOUND     CHAIR SCRAPES, SHE SITS DOWN PENELOPE     I could tell the moment I really looked at you. ROY     [giving her nothing] Ah.  Well.  PENELOPE     Oh, I'm so sorry.  She probably mentioned me, I'm Penelope Cartwright. [confidential]  I'm a certified psychic. ROY     Oh.  Well. PENELOPE     Oh-ho!  I can tell you're a disbeliever, Mr. -? ROY     Don't you know?  You're the psychic. PENELOPE     [laughs]  It's not like that, handsome.  Well, sometimes it is.  Let me see, let me see.  Hmm.  I'm feeling the letter T.  Can I see your hands? ROY     [over-eager] T?  As in Thomas? PENELOPE     [pleased] Aha!  Your palm?  There.  You work with your hands, are you in construction? ROY     [noncommital] Mm. PENELOPE     But there's something else - your money line is a bit baffling.   Very strong - not what I usually see in someone doing manual work.  And something about cats... [Surprised as he snatches his hand away] What?? ROY     Look, Miss Cartwright. You've been right about one thing - and only one thing - I'm a skeptic.   PENELOPE     But, I-- ROY     But, nothing.  I think you'd better go before I feel like embarrassing you in front of Miss Robinson. PENELOPE     Please-- ROY     Go. PENELOPE     [beat]  Very well.  [intense]  But you need to hear this--  [before he can speak]  No!  I have to say it, and if you won't let me wait to tell her, then you have to hear it. ROY     Fine.  Whatever.  Quickly. PENELOPE     The statues - there's something very wrong with them - worse even than that painful installation near the front door with the brown stuff-  I just walked past, and they shouted to me - screamed for help - as if they were alive! ROY     Right. PENELOPE     You don't have to believe, but you must hear me.  I felt such evil in the presence of those poor dear things. ROY     [very sarcastic]  They're... evil statues? PENELOPE     Oh, no.  They're evil's victims. SCENE 6 MUSIC AMBIANCE     STREET GWYNNETH      I can't believe she would do that!  You're such a saint to put up with everything. ROY     Saint?  No.  Just amused by people.  Probably why I like the gallery scene - art folk are hilarious. GWYNNETH      Like Vivienne and Robert? ROY     Who? GWYNNETH      You were talking to them at the gallery last week - after that young man made the fuss over the statues. ROY     Oh.  Bert and Ernie. GWYNNETH      Vivienne IS a female.  I've known her for years. ROY     The way they dress, who could tell?  And who would care? GWYNNETH      Dare I ask what 'the statue whisperer' had to say? ROY     She said they were crying out for help, blah blah blah.  GWYNNETH      Oh, good, now we have two loonies who believe the statues are somehow alive. ROY     Oh, and she apparently hates my work too. GWYNNETH      [joking] Well.  Then she must be normal. MUSIC SCENE 7 SOUND     HEAVY DOOR OPENING ROY     [echoey] Hello? SOUND     ECHOEY FOOTSTEPS, SECOND HEAVY DOOR OPENING ROY     Hello?  I know you're in here. ARTURO     [distant sigh, then, off]  Come on, then - to the left. SOUND     HESITANT ECHOEY FOOTSTEPS, ANOTHER HEAVY DOOR ROY     Isn't it a bit dark in here for a studio? ARTURO     [still distant] You want light?  SOUND     LOUD RUSTLE OF CANVAS, as a heavy curtain swoops to the side. ROY     [reacts to sudden brightness] Jeez!  Good thing I'm not a vampire. ARTURO     [close] You come to steal my secrets? ROY     [jumps, then laughs]  Not my style.  I sculpt from garbage. ARTURO     [disdainful] Yes.  I have noticed.  So why? ROY     You interest me. ARTURO     I thought you were sleeping with our blonde gallery owner. ROY     Um, and you're seeing the supermodel. So? ARTURO     Not that kind of interest?  ROY     [reacts, then] Not very sociable, eh? ARTURO     Hmm.  Perhaps that is why my place here is unlisted and no one visits me.  You have explained a lot.  Feel free to leave. ROY     [beat]  I don't see any materials - working on anything? ARTURO     I am planning.  I don't sculpt here.  It is much too noisy. ROY     The sculpting? ARTURO     The city.  [beat]  And the work.  ROY     Your work is very detailed.  Do you model from life or photos? ARTURO     [a bit odd] From life.  ROY     How do you find your models? ARTURO     Anyone can be a model. [a bit threatening] Perhaps I should ... immortalize ... you? ROY     I'm not that cute. ARTURO     [uncomfortably close]  You don't see yourself clearly.  You're a perfect type - strong, but not silent.  Yet-- SOUND     CELLPHONE RINGS ROY     That's me.  Sorry.  SOUND     CELLPHONE ON ROY     'lo?  Yeah, I'm there now.  No, won't be long.  SOUND     CELLPHONE HANGS UP, TURNS OFF ROY     Sorry about that. ARTURO     [backed off]  Of course.  You are interested in my work - My next major project is a woman.  That is all you will know.  Now leave me. SCENE 8 MUSIC SOUND     DOOR OPENS, FOOTSTEPS APPROACH, COMPUTER NOISES ROY     I've been doing some googling-- GWYNNETH      [slightly off] You don't even look up.  I could be anyone.  A serial killer? ROY     Reflection in the screen.  GWYNNETH      [close up] Oh, well, then.  [hug and kiss noise] So what have you been googling? ROY     Turning people to stone. GWYNNETH      [sigh] Oh god, not Arturo again? ROY     He creeped me out.  I'm not sure if he was about to kiss me or stab me.  And when he said his next project was a woman - all I could think about was that poor blind girl. GWYNNETH     Yes. [mock sympathy] Poor little skinny bitch blind supermodel. ROY     Right.  So, disregarding the E-L-O song, there are myths all over the place about people being turned to stone.  Gorgons, Basilisks-- GWYNNETH      Medusa-- ROY     --yeah, gorgons-- GWYNNETH      What? ROY     Medusa's a gorgon. Like Dracula's a vampire. GWYNNETH     Fine, so I slept through my classical education.  What have you come up with, then? ROY     Disregarding the mythological crap, then, there are a number of fictional stories dealing with it. GWYNNETH     Why disregard the mythical crap?  ROY     Right.  Have you seen any women wandering around New York with snakes for hair?  Or a giant lizard?  GWYNNETH     Hmm.  [shrug] It is New York.  So you lean towards fiction as being more reliable? ROY     When you put it that way... GWYNNETH     What's the front runner, then? ROY     [very serious] Some sort of alchemical process or machine  that changes flesh to stone.  [laughs]  But it's still nuts.  SOUND     LAST COUPLE OF KEYS BEING HIT GWYNNETH     If you're so creeped out by him, perhaps I should send him on his way. ROY     Nah.  GWYNNETH     Good.  He sells.  [teasing] Unlike some... ROY     Most of your art crowd creeps me out.   A little. GWYNNETH     And me--? ROY     Definitely.  [chuckle] Not. SOUND     SMOOCHING SCENE 9 MUSIC GWYNNETH     [talking on phone]  --shipped out first thing.  Crating and handling will be fairly expensive-- [some talk] --very heavy, yes.  SOUND     TAP ON DOOR, DOOR OPENS QUIETLY GWYNNETH     [covers phone, whispers] just a second.  [back to phone]  I'll email you the invoice, and that should go out this afternoon. SOUND     PHONE HANGS UP GWYNNETH     Can I help you? VIVIENNE     I hate to bother you, but-- [deep breath] GWYNNETH     Nonsense.  Have a seat. SOUND     CHAIR SHIFTS VIVIENNE     Could you perhaps see your way to telling me how to find that sculptor?  The one who does the truly amazing marble statues? GWYNNETH     [muttered] Not another one. VIVIENNE     Huh?  You see, Robert--  that fellow asked him to model, and being the narcissist that he is, he was entirely unable to refuse-- GWYNNETH     Oh.  Um, I might be able to-- VIVIENNE     I don't want to make any trouble, but his partner, you know, blames me-- SCENE A1 MUSIC AMBIANCE     NEW AGE MUSIC PLAYS SOFTLY ROY     Hello? PENELOPE     [off, musical] Just a moment! SOUND     RATTLE OF BEAD CURTAIN, FOOTSTEPS PENELOPE     [over the top] Welcome to-- [tone change] oh, it's you.  Come to sneer? ROY     [soft laugh]  No.  I wanted to ask you a few questions. PENELOPE     You saw my sign - it's all entertainment. ROY     It also said this-- SOUND     SLAP OF MONEY ON TABLE ROY     --buys me an hour of your time. PENELOPE     [sigh] It's your dime.   SOUND     MONEY SNATCHED UP PENELOPE     One of many, if I recall your money line. ROY     I want to know what put you onto the statues.  Did a guy named Hank Norton hire you? PENELOPE     Hire?  You think I've been paid-- ROY     Were you? PENELOPE     [sigh]  Yeah, I really love making an ass of myself in public.  Tscha.  If I was that much of a masochist, I'd'a taken up mime.  You may not believe it, but I truly felt something in there.  ROY     Screaming? PENELOPE     It's not that specific.  I have to exaggerate - to translate - when I tell people about my "feelings."  They only want to believe things they can relate to.  I felt ... unease.  Fear.  [sigh]  A definite flavor of more than one mind.    ROY     You were in a crowded gallery. PENELOPE     More than one mind in distress.  Since then- [breaks off] ROY     Yes? PENELOPE     Can you do me a huge favor? ROY     Maybe. PENELOPE     Can you try to hold your laughter until you're back out on the street? ROY     I think so. PENELOPE     I've been having dreams. ROY     [snort] PENELOPE     [warning noise]  I couldn't move.  And I couldn't feel anything - but I could see. I could even hear.  And be afraid.  It was - fear was the biggest part of it.  [beat]  You seem to be with me so far-- ROY     Yes. PENELOPE     Well, here's where I'll lose you.  I don't usually feel things in words, but in flavors, and colors, and textures.  ROY     Like auras? PENELOPE     No.  It's - like with you, I taste brick and brown, and smell the tang of old wires. ROY     [uneasy] Whatever.  Get on with it. PENELOPE     The feeling in my dream - the flavor of it, if you will - was identical to what I felt at the gallery.  SCENE a2 MUSIC ROY     [off, calling]  Gwyn? VIVIENNE     [muffled] Eh? ROY     [coming on] Gwyn?  [muttered] Oh, it's Bert.  Or Ernie. VIVIENNE     Hmm?  She's out.  Asked me to run some numbers for her.  You didn't realize I have skills beyond those of mere mortal critics? ROY     [snarky] You'd have to. VIVIENNE     Look.  Maybe you can help me - Gwyn seems to put a lot of faith in you, despite your obvious attitude problems. ROY     [snort] VIVIENNE     Robert - you recall Robert?  Well, he's gone missing, ever since agreeing to model for Arturo, and I don't know what to-- ROY     He probably just went off with someone. VIVIENNE     He wouldn't-- ROY     And you're such a judge? VIVIENNE     I know Robert-- ROY     I thought he was into guys. VIVIENNE     [really mad]  That does not make him a slut who would run off without a word. ROY     [backing down a bit]  Ok, fine.  You know your friend.  But everyone has a dark side. VIVIENNE     True.  [quick, stabbing] Why do you hate yourself? ROY     What?  What are you, a shrink? VIVIENNE     There's a lot of psychology in art.  Your work says a great deal about you.  Self loathing fairly screams from every line. ROY     [still trying to brush her off, but with an edge] Maybe why it doesn't sell. VIVIENNE     I didn't say it wasn't brilliant - it is.  It's much too powerful for most people. They see what you show them, but don't know how to handle it. ROY     You should meet that psychic.  You'll get on like a house on fire. VIVIENNE     Marines? ROY     [sharp] What? VIVIENNE     Special forces?  You either saw action or spent a lot of time in prison.  You don't have the stance of an abused child. ROY     Look lady-- VIVIENNE     Or the tats of a career criminal-- ROY     Shut up! VIVIENNE     Those are the main ways to reach such a depth of hatred for yourself-- SOUND     A COUPLE OF QUICK FOOTSTEPS ROY     [close]  Is there a point to this? VIVIENNE     [not backing down]  I needed to show you I understand people.  You.  Gwynneth.  And Robert.  And he wouldn't go off and leave Gregoire without a word like that. ROY     Ok, I believe you.  Get the fuck out. VIVIENNE     First, tell me how to find Arturo.  If you don't care what happened to Robert, I do. ROY     What makes you think I know how to find him? [beat]  All right.  SOUND     SCRIBBLING, PAPER TEARS ROY     Here. SOUND     FOOTSTEPS RECEDE, THEN STOP VIVIENNE     [slightly off] She doesn't care, you know. ROY     [tries not to respond, then] What? VIVIENNE     Gwynneth.  She knows you, and for some reason she still loves you.  SCENE a3 MUSIC GWYNNETH     She really said--? ROY     [uncertain] She was full of it. GWYNNETH     Well, if that looney's psych-ee sense is right, and they are cursed, at least they're not my problem - all six of them have sold for huge amounts, and I've a list of commission requests as long as my arm to pass on to Arturo as soon as he gets back in contact. ROY     Have you checked out his so-called studio? GWYNNETH     He never told me where it is. ROY     I was there.  GWYNNETH     You beast! ROY     I guess I forgot to mention it.  Money does have some privileges.  SCENE a4 MUSIC SOUND     STEALTHY FEET. EVERYTHING ECHOES SLIGHTLY GWYNNETH     [whispered] This is madness. ROY     You're the one who spotted Vivienne's car.  GWYNNETH     Doesn't mean we needed to break in. ROY     It was unlocked.  No breaking.  SOUND     RUNNING FEET APPROACH, SLIGHTLY MUFFLED ROY      Stay back, someone's-- SOUND     FEET ARE CLEAR VIVIENNE     [panting, then gasps in muffled terror] SOUND      FEET COME TO AN ABRUPT STOP GWYNNETH     Viv? VIVIENNE     [gasping, trying to calm down]  We need to get out of here - call the police!  GWYNNETH     What?  Why? VIVIENNE     It's Robert!  A statue!  There's no way he could have carved so fast-- SOLANGE     [far off scream] VIVIENNE     [gasp] He's doing something terrible to her, too--! ROY     You get out of here - I'll see what I can do-- GWYNNETH     Yes, get going. SCENE a5 SOUND     FOOTSTEPS, DOOR ROY     [to Gwyn] You too. GWYNNETH     Nonsense.  You stop him, I'll help her-- SOUND     THEIR SNEAKING FOOTSTEPS ARTURO     [off, calling] You think you can get away?  Darling?  If you hide, it just makes me angry. GWYNNETH     We can at least see what's coming at us.  ROY     That's not always a good thing. SOUND     DISTANT DOOR IS FLUNG OPEN ARTURO     [off]  Here?  No? GWYNNETH     I plan to stare death in the face and spit in its-- SOLANGE     [off, whimper]  GWYNNETH     Shh!  Did you hear that? ROY     [moving off] Over here— SOUND     CUPBOARD DOOR OPENS SOLANGE     [gasp]  Who ees thees? GWYNNETH     It's all right.  We'll get you out.  Feel my hand? ROY     He's getting closer. GWYNNETH     I've got her.  Up you come. ROY     We need to move.  SOLANGE     Are wee neer zee door say ehkseet? GWYNNETH     Exit?  [looking around]  Oh, yes – there.   Come on. SOUND     CAREFUL FOOTSTEPS, DOOR QUIETLY OPENS, THEN  STARTS TO CLOSE BEHIND THEM GWYNNETH     Roy? ROY     Get her out of here.  I'm going to stop Arturo. GWYNNETH     Roy! SOUND     GRAB, RUSTLE, KISS ROY     Get clear. SOUND     DOOR SHUTS SCENE a6 SOUND      QUIET CAREFUL FOOTSTEPS ARTURO     [off, calling]  Come out, come out? SOUND     DOOR SLAMS OPEN, OFF SOUND     ROY'S FOOTSTEPS STOP ARTURO     [Getting closer]  There is no place to run to— SOUND     A's FOOTSTEPS APPROACH ARTURO     Don't make this any more difficult-- SOUND     SCUFFLE.  GRUNTS.  BODY FALLS ROY     [whispering, close, puffing a little]  Not difficult at all.  [chuckle] SOUND     HANDCUFFS RATCHET, SLAP SHUT ARTURO     [puffing, hard to breathe] And Solange? ROY     Out of your reach.  ARTURO     [wheezy evil chuckle]  In reach of your young lady, though. [laughs again] ROY     What?  ARTURO     Don't worry - you still can get away. ROY     [dawns on him] Shit!  SOUND     BODY DRAGS, DOOR OPENS ROY     [Grunt as he shoves Arturo into a closet] SCENE a7 SOUND     DOOR SLAMS, LOCKS, HURRIED FOOTSTEPS ROY     [edge of panic] Gwyn?  You here? GWYNNETH     [muffled gasp of pain, distant] SOUND      RUNNING FOOTSTEPS ROY     Where are you? SOLANGE     [off, too sweetly] Over heere.  SOUND     BANKS OF LIGHTS COME ON, ONE AT A TIME SOUND     FOOTSTEPS SLOW, CAUTIOUS ROY     You can't hide in the light— SOLANGE     [closer] I 'ave no weesh to.  I hwant you to see— GWYNNETH     [off] Roy!  Get out!  Get the police!  Don't— [breaks off with a long gasp] SOLANGE     [off] Are hyou zee hero?  Cohm and geet her.  Hyou might steel sehv her. SOUND     FOOTSTEPS STOP ROY      [very sotto]  Shit.  [up] I've got Arturo – let's make a trade. SOLANGE     Heez a tool.  I can find anozzer. ROY     What?  You--? SOLANGE     [disparaging] Zee great arteest.  A mere saylzman.  He is un‑eemportant.  Come out and aye weel no hert her more. GWYNNETH     [gasp]  Get out, Roy— [ends in a hiccup of pain] ROY     Gwyn, whatever you do, keep your eyes shut – can you do that? GWYNNETH     [fights to make an affirmative sound] SOLANGE     So you Zink you noh somezeeng?  Come clozer, man.  [kissing noise, like summoning a dog] I could reemov her eyeleedz, you know.  It is chust zo – barbareec. GWYNNETH     [High squeal] ROY     Why?  I mean, why do it?  What are you? SOLANGE     Stop moveeng!  Hwonce, we wayr feered and worshipp-ed.  GWYNNETH     [gaspy] So now you're a supermodel - what's the diff-- [gasp] SOLANGE     Hyou ask why I turn peepul to stone?  ROY     [muttered] Just a bit closer.  [up] Yeah, what's the deal? SOLANGE     Chust for the look on zayr face! [laughs merrily, then gasps] Ow! SOUND     SCUFFLE, THEN QUICK FEET SOLANGE     You Beech!  You BEET mee! GWYNNETH     Come on! SOUND      RUNNING FEET SOLANGE     [going off] You cannot geet away! SCENE a8 SOUND     FOOTSTEPS RUNNING MADLY, SLAM THROUGH SEVERAL SETS OF DOORS, FOOTSTEPS STOP BOTH     [breathing hard, Gwynneth gasping a bit in pain] ROY     Sorry.  GWYNNETH     Let's get out, then you can apologize all over me. ROY     [chuckle] SOUND     HIT BAR ON NEXT DOOR. IT WON'T MOVE. ROY     Shit! SOUND     POUNDING ON DOOR, TRYING TO MAKE IT OPEN SOUND     BEHIND THEM, A DISTANT SET OF DOORS SLAMS OPEN ROY     Shit!! GWYNNETH     What is it?  ROY     She's a gorgon – medusa.  That's why she always wears the shades-  Whatever you do, don't look in her eyes. SOUND     ANOTHER DISTANT SET OF DOORS SOUND     PUSHING ON THE NEAR DOOR. NO LUCK ROY     [almost giving up] shit. GWYNNETH     [strangely calm] We're trapped? ROY     She did it.  Just like this.  Hunted them down and caught them - no wonder they all look so damn scared. GWYNNETH     Well... [gasp] hold me?  At least that way, we end up a statue together. ROY     [chuckle dissolves into gasping sob] SOUND     LAST DOOR BUT ONE SLAMS OPEN.  FOOTSTEPS CAN BE HEARD COMING CLOSER ROY     [deep breath] Do you trust me? GWYNNETH      Of course.  I love you. ROY     I – I love you, too. GWYNNETH     I know.  I – SOUND     LAST DOOR SLAMS OPEN.  SLOW OMINOUS FOOTSTEPS, SLITHERY NOISES ACCOMPANY HER ARRIVAL GWYNNETH     [Scream of agony] SCENE a9 MUSIC AMBIANCE     GALLERY.  BUZZ.  MUSIC. GORDIE     Is that the owner?  Seems funny to run a gallery, being blind and all. VIVIENNE     [sounding older, wiser]  She trusts my judgment.  GORDIE     Was she born blind? VIVIENNE     Oh, no – there's a tragic story there. GORDIE     Do tell! VIVIENNE     Some years back, our dear hostess was madly in love – you've seen the statue in the corner near her office? GORDIE     That fabulous marble of the hunk?  Sylvester said it was the last piece Arturo ever sculpted. VIVIENNE     The – model – for that was the man she loved. GORDIE     [a little bitchy] Oh, how sweet, and she keeps it to remind her of him? VIVIENNE     He was the one who put her eyes out. END