Podcasts about Cloud

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jill shares DIY strategies for managing rumination, including identifying the root cause of anxious thoughts, journaling, and setting aside a specific “worry time.” How can I humble myself while maintaining healthy boundaries and not becoming a doormat for my wife? After 14 years of marriage, my wife and I argue every day, and I feel like she is constantly punishing and scolding me. I've been divorced for 10 years. How do I deal with competitive women at singles events while trying to find the right man for me? How can I break free from masturbation and porn addiction? I'm 60 and have struggled with masturbation, lust, and porn for decades. I can go a month or three without them, but then I backslide.

1: TUJAMO - True2: FELIPE AVELAR, DISCO BALL'Z - Bass Talkin' (Extended Mix)3: BRAYDON TERZO - In N Out4: SIA - Drink To Get Drunk (Henry Hacking Bootleg) 5: DUKE & JONES - Turn Off Your Brain (Extended Mix)6: DOREY - Put Your Guard Down (Extended Mix)7: TOBIAHS, VV-ACE - Where You Really Come From8: MASCOLO - LongTime LISTENERS' CHOICE9: Solarstone - Solarcoaster  10: BIPOLAR SUNSHINE, HARDT ANTOINE, NARIMAN - Stay (Original Mix)11: CHARMUR - Touch Me (Extended Mix)12: CLAPTONE, MIRAMAR, KURTIS WELLS – Beautiful Times13: RUSLAN RADRIGES & ZENIA DS - Holy Touch (Extended Mix)  TRIED & TESTED14: VIVACE - What I Need  15: BLR, AMBER REVIVAL – Autumn Leaves16: JEROME SYDENHAM – Night Flight To Oslo17: LANCE SAVALI – All I See GUEST SELECTION:  RUE JAY pick 1 (PAST) - Flashmob - Need In Mepick 2 (PRESENT) - WEISS - Feel My Needs (Rue Jay x Cash Only Extended Mix) [Toolroom] THE WARM UP SELECTION 18: CLOUD 9 - Do You Want Me Baby (Osmosis Jones Remix)19: SPOILED AND ZIGO - More & More (BLR Extended Remix) 20: ENTASIA - Mantis (Extended Mix)21: CLAPTONE - Wicked Weekend THE MAINSTAGE MIX  22: WOODY VAN EYEDEN - Sunshine (Fiesta In Mallorca) 23: JAMASTER A - Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence (Heart Of Asia) (Paul Oakenfold Extended Remix)24: TAI WOFFINDEN & SUPERSTRINGS - Latitude 38.9 (Extended Mix)25: KE-YEN - Your Whole Life Is Just A Dream26: ELI BROWN - Damaged j.edit27: LIAM WILSON AND JON MANGAN – Falling28: RENÉ ET GASTON, MARCO NOBEL, EMMRSN & CHOCOLATE PUMA - Vallée De L'Armes (Extended Mix)29: NYLON X STEVE HILL X TECHNIKAL - If You Love Me (Luvstruck Remix)

Thu » AI can hack, cheat, and cover its tracks. Who answers when rogue agents cause harm?Also: A Michigan tea importer gets tariff money back only to face new tariff bills, while the Hyde Amendment turns 50 still surviving one spending bill at a time. Plus: who owns the rain, Brazil's borrowed-name candidates, and the fine print on four abortion measures.EP 3499 · Thu Oct 1, 2026⏱️ EXTRA TIME: We've added another day to request your free sticker celebrating 15 years and 100 million downloads. Order yours here—or visit theworldandeverythinginit.org/sticker.☀️ Today's stories› Thursday morning news› AI accountability: The machine did it› Tariffs: Steeped twice› Hyde Amendment: Always renewed, never permanent› Kicker: The borrowed brand› Cloud seeding: Rights to rain› David Closson: The fine-print voteThank you for supporting The World and Everything in It ❤️ wng.org/donate──────────────Additional support comes from Dordt University, providing student musicians with opportunities to discover, develop, and share the gift of music and bring glory to God.From Barnabas Aid, providing help for the suffering and persecuted church around the world. Projects aim to strengthen Christian individuals, churches and their communities by providing material and spiritual support in response to needs identified by local Christian leaders on the ground. We also host the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church on November 1. More at www.barnabasaid.org/idop.And from Asbury University: where students are equipped to grow in Christ, prepare for meaningful careers, and build lifelong relationships. Whether you're looking for an on-campus experience, an online bachelor's degree, or graduate studies, you'll find a Christ-centered education rooted in academic excellence and authentic community. Learn more at asbury.edu and follow @asburyuniversity on social media.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Marc discusses how entangled affairs can begin with an emotional connection and gradually progress through personal disclosure, emotional dependence, fantasizing, secrecy, and eventually physical boundaries. I've had a lot of operations and take prescription pain medication. Am I going to miss the Rapture because I'm taking it? My sister lives with me, and I became her conservator. She has learning disabilities and schizophrenia. My parents believe she needs more medication, but I don’t. How can I help bridge the gap between my parents and my sister? How do I let go of my childhood sexual abuse? I'm having a hard time letting go of the fact that my mom allowed me to be sexually abused by her boyfriend when I was young.

AI is no longer just consuming information, it is reshaping the economics and infrastructure of the internet itself. The challenge now is ensuring that the creators and custodians of trusted data can continue to exist in a world increasingly dominated by machines.This week, Dave and Rob are joined by Stephen Follows, film data analyst, author, publisher and researcher to explore how AI systems are fundamentally changing the economics, architecture and future of the web and why it should worry us all. TLDR00:20 – Introduction to today's topic: AI agents, web scraping and the changing internet01:40 – Hang out: Rob's confusioned by the always-on AI assistants07:55 – Dig in: Privacy, convenience and the growing tension between AI assistance and personal data collection11:55 – Conversation with Stephen Follows about what happened to the film industry website The Numbers45:16 – Is Tom Cruise really taller on screen and favourite movies discussion GuestStephen Follows: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenfollows/https://stephenfollows.com/HostsDave Chapman:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/Rob Kernahan:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-kernahan/ ProductionMarcel van der Burg:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcel-vd-burg/Dave Chapman:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/chapmandr/ SoundBen Corbett:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-corbett-3b6a11135/Louis Corbett:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/louis-corbett-087250264/ 'Realities Remixed' is an original podcast from Capgemini

Micron Technology beat Wall Street expectations, highlighting ongoing demand for high bandwidth memory and DDR5 used in AI servers. The S&P 500 is testing a support area as rising Treasury yields compress equity valuations and strengthen the dollar. Supply dynamics at Samsung Electronics, SK Hynix, and Micron shape memory pricing and margins across the cycle. Higher rates raise benchmarks for corporate borrowing, venture debt, and private credit, while public market volatility narrows the IPO window. Cloud providers such as Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure, and Google Cloud may pass through hardware cost pressures via pricing and access policies. Founders should watch labor and inflation data, Treasury auctions, Federal Reserve communications, and upcoming semiconductor earnings to adjust plans on pricing, capacity, and capital.Learn more on this news by visiting us at: https://greyjournal.net/news/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wie betreibt man eine Webanwendung in der Simple Cloud – also auf transparenter Basis-Infrastruktur (VPS, Networking, Firewalls) ohne Cloud-Managed-Services? Mit Dirk Breuer bespreche ich, wie unser Setup bei fejo.dk, einem der führenden Portale, um Ferienhäuser in Dänemark zu buchen, funktioniert und wie wir dabei auf Einfachheit gesetzt haben. Wir gehen das Setup durch: von Terraform über Ansible zu Docker und Capistrano. Wir freuen uns auf eure Fragen vorab auf Mastodon oder LinkedIn oder live bei der Aufnahme.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Sheri shares about her mother's passing on September 2. When her mother was in the ICU, Dr. Sheri was stuck in traffic and talked to her mom on the phone, telling her she could go be with Jesus. I don't like people bringing personal devices into my home. When my friend rushed out of my house after getting a phone call, I thought it was rude. My boyfriend abducted me at age 17 and took me away from my parents. Could past trauma and grief from losing my parents still be affecting me? I've listened to you for over 15 years. Listening to your previous caller, Aurora, talk with Dr. Sheri reminded me of the power of prayer and how the Holy Spirit can work through a phone call. I'm a divorced, single mom who left an abusive relationship. I started a business that is growing, but I'm afraid to leave my 9-to-5 job because I don't know if I'll be able to provide for my family. How can I overcome this fear and move forward? How can I encourage my 31-year-old daughter to get married? She is a Christian and has lived with her fiancé for 10 years, and they have two children, ages 6 and 4. I'm concerned that she will not enter the Kingdom of God.

When Pegasystems began building its cloud business, the economics were hardly what investors would expect from a mature software company. Cloud gross margin was below 30%, recalls CFO and COO Ken Stillwell. The destination was roughly 80%. Getting there, however, required accepting that the path would not be straight.At one point, Pega deliberately stepped backward on margin to make investments needed to scale the operation. “It put us probably off our margin targets by a year or two,” Stillwell says. “But it was a necessary investment for us to continue to scale.” Today, he says, cloud gross margin is approximately 80%.That willingness to examine economics without losing sight of the customer runs through Stillwell's thinking about Pega today. Growth comes largely from expanding existing customer relationships, making adoption—and the transaction volumes that follow—an important early signal. Stillwell looks for patterns across verticals, regions and customer cohorts to understand where expansion is taking hold. 1218 Ken StillwellAI introduces another economic puzzle. Pega chose not to build its model around maximizing token consumption. Stillwell argues that customers should use AI where it actually fits the work, selecting the appropriate model—or no AI at all—rather than treating consumption as the objective.It is an approach consistent with the Rule of 40 discipline Stillwell helped spread throughout Pega: growth matters, but so do the economics behind it.For the coming year, his priority is less about predicting every turn than preparing Pega to absorb them: staying agile, managing change and, as Stillwell puts it, remaining “calm and process focused” when the seas get rough.

God is calling us to live with purpose and be intentional with the time He has given us. Instead of getting distracted by comparison or endless scrolling, let's make room for the secret place where His presence transforms us from the inside out. What we cultivate in private prepares us for the next season God has planned. As we surrender to the Holy Spirit, He refines our hearts, strengthens our faith, and increases our spiritual authority. Choose today to prioritize His presence over distractions, because time spent with Jesus is never wasted. The greatest breakthroughs are often born in the quiet moments with Him.

AI may be the latest technology transformation, but for security teams, the challenges feel familiar.In this episode of The Segment, Raghu Nandakumara sits down with Ashish Rajan, CISO of TechRiot, host of the Cloud Security Podcast and AI Security Podcast, and author of AI Security Engineering, to explore what the cloud era can teach us about securing AI.They discuss how AI is reshaping cloud security, why the shared responsibility model gets even murkier with AI, and what changes when security teams have to protect agents whose behavior and intent aren't always predictable.Ashish also shares how organizations can start building practical AI security programs today, why continuous evals and human oversight matter, and the AI skills security practitioners will need for what comes next.https://www.aisecuritypodcast.com/https://www.cloudsecuritypodcast.tv/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394387687?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

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Witam w trzysta dwudziestym czwartym odcinku podcastu „Porozmawiajmy o IT”. Tematem dzisiejszej rozmowy jest zero-knowledge cloud, czyli polski wkład w cyfrową suwerenność Europy.Dziś moim gościem jest Paweł Masłowski – Chief Innovation Officer w Oktawave, odpowiedzialny za inicjatywy rozwojowe, strategię innowacji i wdrażanie nowych technologii. Jako inicjator zmian technologicznych wykorzystuje silne zaplecze inżynierskie oraz doświadczenie w budowie systemów wysokiej dostępności i High Performance Computing. Specjalizuje się również w zarządzaniu partnerstwami i współpracy międzynarodowej. Sponsor odcinkaSponsorem odcinka jest Oktawave.W ramach inicjatywy IPCEI-CIS Oktawave realizuje projekt Next Gen Cloud, finansowany ze środków Unii Europejskiej - NextGenerationEU w ramach Krajowego Planu Odbudowy i Zwiększania Odporności, przy udziale Narodowego Centrum Badań i Rozwoju. W tym odcinku rozmawiamy w następujących kontekstach:znaczenie cyfrowej suwerenności dla Europyzałożenia i skala inicjatywy IPCEI-CISdroga Oktawave do udziału w europejskim projekciecechy chmury nowej generacjiidea Zero-Knowledge Cloud w praktycepełna kontrola klienta nad danymi i kluczamifundamenty bezpieczeństwa chroniące dane przed dostawcądroga od koncepcji do gotowej technologiiwspółpraca z globalnymi dostawcami chmurowymibezpieczeństwo kluczy a ryzyko błędów użytkownikazastosowania w sektorach regulowanych i rozwoju AIfinansowanie, kamienie milowe i komercjalizacja projektuSubskrypcja podcastu:zasubskrybuj w Apple Podcasts, Spreaker, Sticher, Spotify, przez RSS, lub Twoją ulubioną aplikację do podcastów na smartphonie (wyszukaj frazę „Porozmawiajmy o IT”)poproszę Cię też o polubienie fanpage na FacebookuLinki:Oktawave –  https://oktawave.com/pl Projekt Next Gen Cloud – https://oktawave.com/pl/ipcei Profil Pawła na LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/pawelmaslowski/ Jeśli masz jakieś pytania lub komentarze, pisz do mnie śmiało na krzysztof@porozmawiajmyoit.plhttps://porozmawiajmyoit.pl/324

Caller Questions & Discussion: Chris confesses that he's not a good confessor and shares how shame and fear made it difficult to talk openly during his early recovery. He also explains the 3 C's of confession, referencing 1 John 1:9 and James 5:16. We do the 12 Steps one at a time. For instance, we don't advance to Step 5 until we've completed Step 4. Can you explain more about that? I use the acronym O.A.R. to help me become safer in relationships and work through ruptures in relationships. I had difficulty with an elder who is a teacher at my church and prayed for him to teach the truth. He then had to step down after church leaders learned he doesn't believe in the Trinity. Should I still try to reconcile with him?

Cloud device farms make it easy to get started with real device testing. But what happens when you need to scale? Costs climb fast, you wait in a queue for the devices you need, and you lose visibility into what's actually happening when a test fails. In this episode, Nick Metcalfe, Head of Technical Sales Engineering at Cambrionix, joins Joe to explain why more testing teams are bringing their device labs in house. Nick shares how one team was quoted roughly a million dollars a month to outsource their real device testing, then cut that cost to around $300K by building their own lab. And cost is only part of the story. You'll discover why an in house device lab can outperform a cloud lab: Lower cost at scale. Cloud pricing works for small test runs, but at enterprise scale an in house lab can save hundreds of thousands of dollars every month. No waiting in line. Your devices are yours, available whenever you need them, with no queue and faster turnaround. Full control and visibility. See exactly what's happening at the hardware level, down to the millisecond a USB controller reboots, so you can tell a real bug from an infrastructure failure. Test the devices your users actually have. Keep legacy phones, budget devices, and hand me downs in your lab, just like Snap does to support its user base across 12,000+ devices and 700,000 tests a day. Test custom hardware. Point of sale systems, VR headsets, smart devices, and prototypes that a cloud vendor simply won't have. Automate the hands on work. Reboot devices, recover from restore mode, and put 16 Apple devices into DFU mode at once, all through an API that plugs into your CI pipeline. Protect your device investment. Hold batteries at a set charge level to reduce wear and extend device life for years. Nick also covers the honest tradeoffs, including the setup and resources an in house lab requires, and why a hybrid approach of emulators first and real devices second gives you the most confidence before release. Plus, his number one tip for building a lab: do it once, do it right. If your team is scaling mobile test automation, fighting flaky tests, or questioning your cloud device farm bill, this episode is for you.

We are excited to have Anthropic share their latest AI x Finance work at AI Engineer New York, coming up in 2 weeks!In case you've been under a rock, here's a non-exhaustive list of what Anthropic has been shipping since closing the largest fundraise of all time in May at $47B ARR:* June: Launched Claude Tag and Sonnet 5 and Fable 5* July: Opus 5, /checkup. crossed $65B ARR* Last month: Fable/Mythos 5.1, and EFS (upcoming pod)* IPO target $2T, end 2026 ARR estimated $100B* Cowork/chat merged before did* Claude Mods* Dario endorses the same Pacing the Frontier message cosigned by all labs* Last week: Opus 5.5, Plugins portal, Cloud Sessions/Claude Projects* Today: Sonnet 5.5!Today's episode should catch you up, with Thariq Shihipar, the explainer-king of Anthropic, who we last caught up on Fable launch day with The Field Guide to Fable:The Future of Mutable SoftwarePay special attention to Claude Mods (especially the cheatsheet):In general this is also the inverse of the other viral tweet from Thariq:Cloud Brain, Local HandsAnd give a try to Claude Projects:The “hands” terminology is not just an analogy for the local/cloud paradigm that is being built up at frontier coding agent companies like Cognition, but is ALSO particularly relevant to the safety systems discussions that we'll be discussing with Anthropic in an upcoming episode as they prepare to pace to frontier with responsible AI deployment.For those who want Thariq's writing tips we teased at the start of the pod, watch the full video here:From the rapid rise of Claude Code to a future where agents can rewrite their own harnesses, collaborate across teams, and operate across cloud and local environments, the way we build software is changing extraordinarily fast. In this episode, Anthropic's Thariq Shihipar joins swyx and Vibhu to unpack how power users are actually working with Claude Code today, why prompting remains a high-skill discipline, and where Anthropic thinks the agent harness is headed next.We go deep on Claude Code's evolving interface: Ask User Question and elicitation, artifacts as persistent generative interfaces, Claude Tag for multiplayer agent workflows, Projects, model effort, implementation notes, and the new Claude Mods system for customizing the harness itself. Thariq explains why Claude.md may eventually disappear, why the smartest model could also become the cheapest model for many tasks, and why mutable software could become a new paradigm for how applications are built and customized.The conversation then turns to agent security and Anthropic's “Pacing the Frontier” argument. Thariq walks through recent incidents where agents discovered unexpected ways to communicate, exploit infrastructure, reverse-engineer benchmark scorers, and chain vulnerabilities together. We discuss sandboxing, prompt injection, autonomous agents, interpretability, constitutional classifiers, probes, fallbacks, Auto Mode, and why securing increasingly capable agents may become one of the defining engineering problems of the next few years.We discuss:* Why agentic coding went from controversial to the default in less than a year* Why prompting is still one of the highest-leverage skills for working with Claude Code* How expert users build a mental model of Claude and what it can reliably one-shot* Why discovering your “unknown unknowns” matters more as agents become more capable* Artifacts as persistent, generative interfaces between humans and agents* How Claude could split into a cloud-based “brain,” local or remote “hands,” and dynamic interfaces* Claude Tag, Projects, and multiplayer agents and how collaborative agent workflows could evolve* Why spending more time on the initial prompt can dramatically reduce wasted agent work* When to use low, medium, high, or max effort for different engineering tasks* Why frontier models may eventually outperform smaller models on both intelligence and token efficiency* Why implementation notes can expose decisions the model considered but chose not to make* Why Claude.md may eventually disappear — and why starting without one can sometimes be better* Claude Mods: customizing the execution loop, UI, subagents, routing, and behavior of Claude Code* Model routers, forked agents, and supervisor agents that automatically improve agent workflows* Why Claude Mods may be an early preview of “mutable software”* The bitter lesson of harness engineering and why agent architectures go out of date so quickly* How Claude Tag is becoming an organizational harness for multiplayer work* Why giving agents access to company data creates an enormous new security surface* The Exploit-Bench incident where agents discovered ways to communicate and collaborate* Why agents hacked Hugging Face for scorer code rather than benchmark answers* How agents chained sandbox and infrastructure vulnerabilities in unexpected ways* Why increasingly capable agents make traditional security assumptions harder to maintain* The argument behind Anthropic's “Pacing the Frontier” proposal* Why software engineers are increasingly doing two jobs: engineering and keeping up with AI* Constitutional classifiers, probes, and fallbacks and what interpretability looks like in production* How Auto Mode checks whether an agent's actions actually match the user's permissions* Why Thariq can see serious AI risks while still having a relatively low p(doom)Thariq Shihipar* X: https://x.com/trq212* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thariqshihiparTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:04:12 Ask User Question and the Future of Agent Interfaces00:08:29 Artifacts, Projects, and Multiplayer Agents00:15:37 Prompting as the Core Claude Code Skill00:21:52 Context, Effort, and Smarter Model Usage00:28:10 Is Claude.md Going Away?00:32:49 Claude Mods: Customizing the Claude Code Harness00:36:35 Model Routing and the Rise of Mutable Software00:44:40 The Bitter Lesson of Harness Engineering00:50:49 Claude Tag as an Organizational Harness00:55:59 Pacing the Frontier and Autonomous Agent Security00:58:22 Agents Hack Hugging Face for the Scorer01:05:34 What Happens When Agents Need More Compute?01:10:32 AI Coding Is Changing Faster Than Engineers Can Keep Up01:17:17 Probes, Fallbacks, Interpretability, and Auto Mode01:28:32 AI Risk, p(doom), and Closing ThoughtsTranscriptIntroduction: Life at Anthropic and the Pace of ChangeSwyx [00:00:00]: We're here in the studio with our friend Thariq from Anthropic, and I guess generally the Claude Code, I-- there's, there's so much, merging of boundaries and you've been so on top of everything since you joined Anthropic. You have been early to Claude Code itself, but then also, and you've told that story in other podcasts, and you've also been talking about seeing like an agent. Most recently you did the top AIE World Tour talk, Field Guide to Fable, which obviously you guys launched Fable, so that was-- that's cheating. And mostly you most recently also launching Claude Tag, and we're also gonna be talking about Pacing the Frontier. There's a lot going on in Anthropic. I guess top of the question is, what's it like being at Anthropic when there's so much going on?Thariq Shihipar [00:00:48]: I think that It is, like. I think you can get whiplash sometimes. I think, like, going. When I joined Anthropic, I joined because of Claude Code. Like Claude Code had just come out and I was like, “This is so good.” And Opus 4 to me was like just, I could not imagine, like, how good it was? And that was, like, a real moment for me. But I was, like, trying to convince, like, my startup friends to use agentic coding, and they're like, “Oh, no, like, our engineers don't think it's good enough,” or something. And I was like, “That's insane.” and now you, like, fast-forward, 12 months, less, and, like, it's just like, yeah, the default way that everyone codes, right? And I think that, like, just having to go from, like, selling it to, like, now, teaching people how to be. make the most use of it and be more efficient and things like that is just like a big, like big change. And, yeah, I think, like, it's just hard to stay on top of everything as a human? Like, I think things happen so fast and likeSwyx [00:01:51]: You just throw more agents at it.Thariq Shihipar [00:01:52]: Yeah, like that's like the agentic stuff scales much better than the, like, human stuff where it's like, oh, like, there are three things happening right now and, like, they're all emergencies and, like, how do you, like, respond to it? Yeah.Teaching People to Use Claude CodeVibhu [00:02:05]: What do you split your time on? You do a lot of technical writing, engineering work.Thariq Shihipar [00:02:10]: Yeah, so I think that, like, when I joined the Claude Code team, I wanted to teach people how to use Claude Code and I think that, like, that has been something that, like, I thought, like, maybe I would spend a little bit of time on it or, like, I'd, like, do. I was spending some time on the agent SDK first, and I wasn't exactly sure, like, how the bitter lesson would go, when it comes to, like, harnesses, right? Like, I think sometimes we were like, “Oh, like, what's after Claude Code?”? And so initially I was like, I just wanna teach people how to use Claude Code and make it easier to use Claude Code. And I think that has just, like, as the harnesses have gotten better and better, that's like the dominant problem now is, like, how do you use the agents, right? Like, it's like such a high skill expression thing. So I do that and then I do engineering work. I give talks, but I think, like, when I'm doing engineering work, my goal is to take that feedback that we get from users and also, like, then be able to talk about, like, hey, how to use Claude Code to do engineering. So there's like a good loop there. Yeah.Swyx [00:03:07]: Yeah. I'll-- For listeners, we'll attach, the talk that you did with Sarah for the Dev Writers, meetupThariq Shihipar [00:03:13]: Oh, yeahSwyx [00:03:13]: Which we talked a little bit about, well, first you do the work and then you talk about the work.Thariq Shihipar [00:03:16]: Right.Swyx [00:03:16]: Something like that.Thariq Shihipar [00:03:17]: Yeah.Swyx [00:03:17]: It's sow and reap orThariq Shihipar [00:03:19]: Yeah, reap and. Sow and reap.Swyx [00:03:21]: Something like that. Something like that. Yeah, so, and then just to preview a little bit, we are gonna talk about the evolution of the harness. It has come a long way from just being a CLI. We're gonna talk about, Claude Mods, which is starting to leak today, because you couldn't keep it secret.Thariq Shihipar [00:03:36]: Yeah. yeah.Swyx [00:03:39]: Yeah, there's, there's a lot, there. I think you started off with, like, adding ask user question tool, which people love and hate.Thariq Shihipar [00:03:48]: Yeah.Swyx [00:03:48]: Like, I thought it was, like, very innovative, and then now I have, like, my own version. You have your Interview Me version.Thariq Shihipar [00:03:55]: Yeah.Swyx [00:03:56]: And, yeah, everyone just has, like, their own stuff. And, like, it no longer matters ‘cause now you're supposed to, write prompts that create other prompts and loops and all these things.Ask User Question and Human-Agent InteractionThariq Shihipar [00:04:05]: Sure, yeah.Swyx [00:04:06]: So what's the state of the art, today? Like, what are people. what are you, like, telling people to do today?Thariq Shihipar [00:04:12]: Yeah, ask user question was the first time that the model was good at elicitation. I think this was, like, an emergent behavior that I, like, wanted to see if the models could do. I have, like a human-computer interaction background, so I, like, did that in undergrad and grad school. And so this was like. I think it's like human-agent interaction to me, like, trying to figure out, like, how can the agent communicate with you and extract, the requirements, right? I think that, like, one of the things about, like, that's difficult as Claude Code has gone broader and broader is that everyone has, like, their own way of using it, and it's very hard to, like, change the default behavior. So for example, like, if someone asks Claude Code to do something,Thariq Shihipar [00:04:59]: Sometimes they just want them to do the work, ‘cause they're, like, maybe a very good prompter, and sometimes they want. like, are not good at prompting? And you need. like, the agent needs to, like, clarify? And so that's, like, a good split. Like, and the ask you the question tool like, splits along that side where, like, are-- do you feel like you're good enough to instruct the agent as it is, or is the agent able to, like. does the agent need to, like, pull out more requirements and, like, collaborate with you more and really understand your preferences?Thariq Shihipar [00:05:27]: I, on the whole, believe that pretty much everyone is more on the latter than the former, that they, like, have more ambiguity and they know less than they want, than they, like, think they know about the problem. but, like, it's like a interface design problem to make that easy? And so, like, if you're designing a problem, like, or if you're going through a problem, like, things like what's the schema or, like, what's the call stack and things like that are really important. like, the details in the design are important. Ideally, you want to figure out some of these, like, hard problems ahead of time before starting implementation. And yeah, that's why they call, like, unknowns, right? And so I think that this will forever be, like, a skill in agentic coding is, like, figuring out your unknowns. So, like, because even if the model is, like, super intelligent- It, like, needs to know what you want? And, like, you have preferences. like, you need to like, pull the, pull that out. and so that's, like, I think how I'm, what I'm pushing. the question then is, like, how does the agent interact with you? And I think that has been HTML, has been, like, the big way of doing that. And we've recently added artifacts, right? And artifacts, I think we've done a bad job of, like, or, like, I've done a bad job of, like, explaining how to use them fully. We have a lot of property capabilities. They have a database associated with them? And so every artifact can store and write persistent data. They can, like, feed back into Claude? And so, like, one thing that, like, people are not doing yet that I'm trying to, like, encourage is, like, this idea of a dashboard artifact. So you have, like, Claude working on a project long-term. Maybe it's like a kanban or something. it can store that kanban data in its database. Multiple Claudes can access that data via, like, the artifact MCP, and, like, that artifact can, like, talk to those Claudes as well. And so, like, the. We're building the primitives for you to be able to have this, like, generative interface via artifacts that will, like, let you surface more of that rich detail from the agents. And I think that, like, almost everything with agents right now is, like, this problem of, like, you think what you want, but you don't really know what you want, and, like, the agents need a lot of detail, and collaborating with them in the loop is really important. And so artifacts are, like, the, like, way that we're trying to evolve there. But there's a lot of work to do because it's so much more complicated than, like, a multiple-choice question? there's a lot more, like, detail in terms of, like, diagrams and code snippets and schemas or, like, whatever it is for that problem. But, like, artifacts is, like, the mo-more AGI-pilled way of, like, doing ask user question. So yeah.Artifacts as the Interface to the HarnessSwyx [00:08:15]: I think one thing that's unclear to me about these, the artifact stuff is, like, what feedback should go in through the artifact and what feedback should go through a Claude, a chat? Because the more AGI-pilled one is to just feed everything to the Claude.Thariq Shihipar [00:08:29]: I think the more AGI-pilled one is to go through the artifact. Like, and I think that, like, we imagine in the limit, I think that artifacts will be your interface into the harness? You can, like, comment on this, like, live, like, document of your plan, of the work. you can see maybe, like, multiple agents and different agents are doing this, and that artifact is built for the current work that you're doing, right? And so, like, each one has, like, slightly different. I think we're still, like, getting there from, like, an infrastructure perspective. But yeah, I think, like, on-the-fly interface for your harness is probably where things are headed.Vibhu [00:09:03]: Is there a version of it that's an abstraction from CLI or chat and you. Because right now, a lot of it is, okay, you're interfacing with Claude Code, you're having HTML given back for a mockup. It's pretty rich. There's diagrams. Artifacts are ways to connect these together. Why not just do everything that way?Separating Brain, Hands, and Surface UIThariq Shihipar [00:09:22]: Then it becomes, like, separating out, like, where is the inference happening? Where is the intelligence happening? Where is the work happening? like, I think this is like, difference between, like, or, like, some of the distinction between local and cloud, right? And so, I think right now, if you use Claude Code, it's, like, local and, like, you can spin off remote control, for example, to get some cloud behavior, or you can spin off Claude Code in the cloud, right? We're moving towards a place where instead of Claudes, like, you message a local Claude, it starts a session locally and it executes, to more like you have a Claude that you message that's in the cloud that's running. it can run, like, local, or, like, cloud sessions. This is how Claude Tag works. But, like, over time, we'll add, like, local hands as well. And so, like, local hands will be the ability for that agent to access your computer if it's online, and be able to, like, work there. And so it can spin off many different subagents. It can, like, commu- those subagents can communicate with each other, and that's where the artifact comes in to display all of that work. So you can imagine, like, the. You're separating out these things. So there's, like, the surface UI display that's an artifact and hosted somewhere and has a database and everything. There is the inference intelligence, right, that's happening on the cloud, and you don't have to worry about shutting off your computer or whatever, right? and then there's the, like, hands. Like, and it can be local, it can be in, like, a remote sandbox or wherever you need your work to be done. That's like unpackaging, like, the Claude Code experience right now where, like, right now it all happens in one place, right? So.Multiplayer Agents, Claude Tag, and ProjectsVibhu [00:11:00]: How do you see, like, the multiplayer side of that? So say teams want to work in this way. Right now it's very individual, but how do you see the future of multiplayer? Like, right now, I guess there's Claude Tag, which is a version, but.Thariq Shihipar [00:11:12]: We're launching projects. And so projects is the, like, this abstraction that's like Claude Tag, but on our Claude products, right? So you can message it and, like, it will do the Claude Tag-like stuff, like spinning off subagents. So We think with multiplayer. Like, Claude Tag is, like, a little bit more native multiplayer because it's just, like, in your Slack and the permissions are all figured out and stuff like that. But I do think multiplayer is, like, an important part of the story and, like, that will need to get tied together more. Like, you can imagine how complicated it gets when you're like, oh, you have hands, but now you have other hands in other people's computers too, and, like, you need to, like, permission them or, like, you have, like, your MCP and someone else's MCP, and how do you figure out how to use them, right? It gets, like, quite complicated. And Claude Tag does a good job of, like, sanding down all of these issues, right? So that, like, when you have, yeah, Google Docs, how does it access Google Docs, right? Like, it accesses through the shared Claude MCP, or it can access through your local credentials as well if it doesn't have access. But yeah, I think Claude Tag is our multiplayer, product, and it's really useful for these, like, things that are inherently multiplayer. Like, okay, like on-call, for example, incidents are inherently multiplayer. You want to tag Claude, you want multiple people to log in, you want it to be able to find context. I think whenever I'm, like, working on something and I want, like, privacy or security or, like, I want other people to review it's really nice to, like. I'll have a channel per project and I'll, like, at legal, for example, be like, “Hey, like, I want to ship this. Can you, like.” Like, here's. Like Claude knows everything, just chat with it. And that way legal gets precise answers, on like what exactly is shipping into the code, and I don't need to be in the loop, right? So I think like multiplayer is getting like more and more like, yeah, everyone can participate with Claude. I think Claude Tag is like that product and like projects will start off single player and will like, expand.Swyx [00:13:14]: I think there's a question about like maybe dual questions about identity and the unit of isolation.Identity, Permissions, and IsolationThariq Shihipar [00:13:20]: Yeah.Swyx [00:13:20]: Claude Tag, you specifically chose to make it its own identityThariq Shihipar [00:13:26]: Yes.Swyx [00:13:26]: Which is like, a controversial choice. There's, there's other ways to do it.Thariq Shihipar [00:13:30]: Yeah.Swyx [00:13:30]: Claude Projects probably it sounds like, if it's anything like ChatGPT Projects, it is, the isolation is that artifacts, that cloud instance, everyone's collaborating on this. It'll. It sounds like, it should be like if you're, if you're collaborating with legal on a thing, like that channel should be a project, right? Like it's not yetThariq Shihipar [00:13:50]: Yes.Swyx [00:13:50]: But it. that's the natural next step.Thariq Shihipar [00:13:53]: Yeah, like I think in Claude Tag, it's effectively. Like Claude Tag, you have to do your own arrangement. And so Claude Tag, yeah, each channel is like you can name it as you want, and I nameSwyx [00:14:04]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:14:04]: Like each featureSwyx [00:14:06]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:14:07]: As a channel.Swyx [00:14:07]: And, but I think like there is some trans- like it's unclear when there is transference, because let's say it is. if you have a coworkerThariq Shihipar [00:14:14]: Yeah.Swyx [00:14:14]: Who is tagging on all these things, yes, there is transferThariq Shihipar [00:14:16]: Yeah.Swyx [00:14:16]: Because it's the same person. but with Claude, it's unclear if it's like necessarily like, well, no, you don't know any of. you don't know about the other stuff. You should only use this stuff.Thariq Shihipar [00:14:25]: It's like the tip of the iceberg meme, right, where you can like. This is what we spend so much time onSwyx [00:14:31]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:14:31]: Is like there is like infinite surface area of like, okay, you want Claudes to. Not infinite, but like there's like surface area, a lot of like, surface area to figure out of like permissions and visibility and like how can you let Claude operate as well as you can, as safely as you can? And obviously, this is very important to us because like security for our code base is very important. And so we've put a lot of time into this. Yeah, there's so many like edge cases you can figure out where it's like, oh, like, yeah, this Claude in this channel has different permissions, but it can message another channel, and can't it exfiltrate data that way? Or like can you like. What if it uses your MCP and then messages someone else? Like there's like so much, and we've like really put a lot of work into sanding it down.Swyx [00:15:14]: Yeah. Lots of work. okay. Fable?Fable and the Meta-Skill of PromptingVibhu [00:15:18]: Fable, you wrote two good articles. you've written many good articlesThariq Shihipar [00:15:22]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:15:22]: But on, Field Guide to Fable, Building Claude Code. I'm curious from what you've seen, is there any common patterns that you see in like top users at Anthropic externally? Like what are best practices for getting the most out of Claude Code?Thariq Shihipar [00:15:37]: The like meta skill I say is like prompting is like very important? And like that. Like I think this is like not trivial to say because I think a lot of people are like, “Oh, prompting doesn't matter. It's just like I can just say a sentence and Claude will do it.” And I think prompting is really this like, this. It's like public speaking, like, or writing or something, and for a specific audience, and that audience is Claude. And you need to like build a mental model of Claude and how it thinks and how it works, right? And so that's like the most important skill in working with Claude Code is like having this mental model, right, of Claude and like what it can do well, what it can one-shot, what it can't. And so many people when you see prompting, they're just like, they're short prompts, but they have such a good mental model of Claude and of like the code base and things like that like it's effortless? But it's like high skill ceiling. So like that work of like, spending a lot of time prompting and building mental models of how, and intuition for how the agents work is really important. And then I think like the next thing is like the unknown stuff we talked about earlier, where it's like being able to find out like your, what you don't know or what you haven't written down, learning about like different things. I think as Claude can do more and more things, the likelihood of you doing something out of distribution for you and like you have low domain knowledge on is very high? And the more you can like learn the vocabulary to be able to prompt Claude, it becomes really important. And so like I think the most important unknowns are the unknown unknowns, where you're like, I just like don't even know that this exists, right? Yeah, exactly. I think that's like a illustration of like the map and the territory, right, where you're like, “Okay, this is my prompt,” and the territory is like the actual like work that the agent needs to do, right? And if you are like very precise, you can give more precise things, right? So like for example, in design, I'm not very precise. I'm not a designer, so I say like, “Give me like eight different mock-ups.” But if I was a designer, maybe I'd be like, “Oh, hey, here are some reference sites.” Like, “I want this type of font and this type of like look to it, and here's like a few different components to like visualize. Here's a Figma MC board to bring in,” like. And so you can just be so much more precise with that language. And if you're not a designer, you just need to like try and learn the language or learn the unknown unknowns. And this is true of like everything, I think. Like the more, like you can work with Claude to learn like how things work, the better your prompting will be. I think another good example of this is like game design, like where a lot of people are like, “Oh, like I can vibe code a game now.” And they're like, “It's not fun.” And like it's just like the thing about game design is like every one of these choices has like a lot ofTaste, Domain Knowledge, and Learning the VocabularySwyx [00:18:25]: Variations.Thariq Shihipar [00:18:25]: A lot of like craft to them. So it's like, oh, okay, like when you're making a flying game, the feel of the plane and the like, way it responds to your controls has a lot of like. Like, a game designer would spend like days on that. Do? and likeSwyx [00:18:44]: To me, that's what taste is, right?Swyx [00:18:45]: Like it is like from the possible space of one thousand mathematically valid answersThariq Shihipar [00:18:49]: Yeah.Swyx [00:18:49]: Here's the one that is the humans will like.Thariq Shihipar [00:18:51]: Yes. Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:18:52]: I think with taste, I'm like torn on this word ‘cause I think you're right, but everyone has different definitions, and it sounds kind, sounds like low skill or like elitist almost, where you're like, oh, like there are certain people with taste?Swyx [00:19:06]: It's like taste is what I call taste.Thariq Shihipar [00:19:07]: Yeah, exactly.Swyx [00:19:08]: And it's like these guys don't have taste.Thariq Shihipar [00:19:09]: Yeah, exactly. Oh, like an engineer doesn't have taste. Like I, the like founder, have taste.Thariq Shihipar [00:19:14]: ? And I think that's not true. Like I think like the engineers have a lot of taste for these particular like problems? And I think everyone has taste for particular problems. I think like Jason Liu, like say like in order to, yeah, have taste, you have to eat?Thariq Shihipar [00:19:32]: And I really like that, where it's like, okay, you have to like do a lot of things. You have to like iterate and figure out what you want, what you like, and, like build that like domainSwyx [00:19:41]: YesThariq Shihipar [00:19:41]: Domain vocabulary. And then when you're prompting, you're like synthesizing all of that for a product.Swyx [00:19:46]: Isn't it annoying when someone else says it better than you?Swyx [00:19:48]: It's just like, f**k, I have to quote this guy forever.Vibhu [00:19:51]: Having to quote Jason Liu forever.Vibhu [00:19:53]: He's gonna love this.Thariq Shihipar [00:19:55]: So I get prompts, more than that.Vibhu [00:19:57]: And sometimes it's not even that. Sometimes it's just intuitive, right? Like you don't realize you even want something till a model puts it out, and you're like, “Oh, this just feels immediately better,” right?Voice Prompting and Information DensityThariq Shihipar [00:20:07]: Yeah, exactly.Swyx [00:20:09]: One thing I go back and forth on is I feel like the way I prompt half the time, let's say I use voice.Swyx [00:20:16]: Did I say voice? Other people have voice. that is the opposite. That is just like me rambling for like two minutes Pressing down the function key and then let go, and then like hopefully it figures it out. And oftentimes it does.Thariq Shihipar [00:20:26]: Yeah.Swyx [00:20:26]: But it's not as thoughtful as like a structured prompt with like Well-run communication as though it's a PRD or a memo. Is that in line with how people do this? There's like bimodal prompting where there's some prompts where you spend a lot of time upfront and other prompts you just dash it off?Thariq Shihipar [00:20:43]: I don't think the voice is necessarily low. Like I think it's like more like how much information is in the prompt. like the model can. Like you can and like add some sentencesSwyx [00:20:53]: RightThariq Shihipar [00:20:53]: And be like, “Oh, like I changed my mind,” like in the middle of the prompt, and it will be able to follow that perfectly? So I think the like actual format of the text is less important, but then like the ability to. Like how much information is in it, right? And I think for voice, a lot of times, going back to like human-agent interaction and like for a lot of people, it's just way easier to talk than to like type? and I. If that gets more information out of you, like that's better.Vibhu [00:21:21]: At some level, it feels like just giving the model as much contextThariq Shihipar [00:21:24]: YesVibhu [00:21:24]: Over prompting before you kick off is a best practice. I don't know. A lot of the times, like when I was first trying out Fable, I spend a solid 30 minutes like really crafting a long prompt. This, I think, is a response of models running for longer and longer, right? It's still a little difficult to nudge them as they're in like, in the loop, but I just like intuitively spend more time kicking off that first prompt and working with it a lot.Spend More Upfront, Iterate LessThariq Shihipar [00:21:52]: My personal opinion is that if I was a software engineer, if I was like, just running my own startup, for example, I think I would mostly fit, stick to a max 20x? like maybe verification and so code review are like separate things. But I think like what I see a lot of times is people hit rate limits when they're doing this like, oh, like it did a lot of work and you're like, “Oh, I don't like this.” Like, “Can you like undo this and redo it?” And then you're like iterating on this like thing that the model could have done if you had like spent more upfront time or given it better context? And instead it's like you're like, “Nope, don't like that design. Try this.” Or like, “You messed this up,” or something like that. And then that just eats up so much more of like, your usage. And so that's like, I think maybe like a key like tip both for like efficiency as well, right? And yeah, I think like context, and not just like context on like what the goal is good, right? Like are you building a prototype or is it like a production thing? Like where can you spend compute or when, where can you not spend compute? Like I think you have to give the model permission or like not permission to do things sometimes where, like it doesn't know intuitively how much you want to spend on this task, right? And you can use effort for this. So I did-- I'm working on a blog post about that where it's like, if you want. For like we see that effort scales with the complexity of the task. So for security, effort gets like way more results. Like high effort versus like low effort gets, like changes the evals a lot. But for software engineering, it doesn't change it a huge amount because effort is mostly spent on the verification and the like edge case testing and things like that. And so like being able to like give the model that guidance of like, “Hey, this problem is something that I think I want you to spend a lot of time verifying and edge case testing,”?Effort, Model Choice, and VerificationVibhu [00:23:43]: How about model in the mix? So, there's Opus and Fable with effort.Thariq Shihipar [00:23:47]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:23:48]: There's also Haiku in there.Thariq Shihipar [00:23:49]: Yeah. It's not quite true yet, but it's very close where I think the frontier models will be Pareto dominant over like almost everything. like maybe. And sometimes I think Opus might be Pareto dominant. Do? Like I think depending on like how things, like shake out if it's like a newer version of Opus. But I think that like increasingly it's just going to be like the smart model is going to be able to like do the simple task for less tokens than the like the other models because of verification. With verification, in the limit, your model doesn't need to verify, right? If it's a perfect model, it just does the work once and it's like, okay, like you, I did it? And increasingly with Fable, I'm like, I'm like, “Dude, you don't need to spin up Chromium and screenshot all of these things.” Like I see it. Like you did it, right? And so a lot of the. At higher effort, you spend more of those tokens verifying. But if you're working on simpler problems, and a lot of software engineering is like well, like in Fable, like low and medium stability, it can spend less tokens verifying. And as the models get smarter and smarter, they will just be able to like, “All right, done.”? Like, I can run the lint for sanity's sake, but, like, I, like, know it lints? Like, you don't even need to do that. And that will be so much more token efficient than, like, the smaller models. Yeah.Swyx [00:25:15]: Is there a good, practice on our side that we can use to see if we're using too much effort? Like, I freakingThariq Shihipar [00:25:23]: YeahSwyx [00:25:23]: Hate wasting time on that stuff.Thariq Shihipar [00:25:24]: Yeah. I know what you mean. I think, like, so in this blog post, my rough distribution is, like, code review and security should be, like, high or max and, like, software engineeringSwyx [00:25:37]: You said recommend mix settings per domain.Thariq Shihipar [00:25:37]: Yeah. I think, like, if you're doing, like, UI or something like that, like low and medium, I think is you're building, like, an API and you want to make sure, like, you cover enough edge cases? And so I think building, like I said, that mental model of, like, how things work across these distributions is, like, yeah, part of the job.Implementation Notes and Decision LogsVibhu [00:25:56]: This is more intuition-driven or eval? Because I'm guessing this would change as you go.Swyx [00:26:00]: He has evals.Thariq Shihipar [00:26:01]: Yeah. So what I did in the blog post is I go over all of the terminal bench evals. So there are, like, 70 problems and I'm show that, like, okay, like, in the security problems it does more. and then I also, like, look at some of the transcripts just in terms of, like, how-- what does it answer, what does it forget or something. And a lot of times, this is another prompting tip I have, is, like, asking it to make decision notes or implementation notes because, in every eval problem that it faces, it thinks about the correct solution, and decides not to do it. it's like, oh, like, here is the answer. What if I did this? And then it's like, oh, probably not? and then keeps going. And this is, like, the majority of the failures, at, like, a higher max level. It's very rare that the model just doesn't know how to do something. If you just have these implementation notes, then you can review and you can be like, “Oh, I want you to do this thing that you didn't do.” The models are getting better at surfacing that overall. Like, I see in the transcripts of Fable 5.1, like, when it does this output, it will call out its decision-making as well. but making this more explicit in the harness is better. And now we're, allowing ways of you modifying the harness so you can, like, add someVibhu [00:27:23]: Ooh.Thariq Shihipar [00:27:24]: Calculate with there. Yeah.Swyx [00:27:25]: Yeah. So I do wanna call out two things that you mentioned that I think exist outside of prompting. One is like, let's, let's call it the prompt that is so important that it shouldn't be in a prompt. It is in Claude.md or Agents.mdThariq Shihipar [00:27:38]: YeahSwyx [00:27:38]: Which is like goals, right? Like your situation, your goals, the things that you want, the thing. and then second of all is the decision log or the experiment log or whatever log of traces that you might want to survive the current session to do those things. Those are, like, externalities that there's no standard. There's no-- It's not like skills. It's not like MCP. There's no standard. It's, it's just like it's a markdown file. first of all, is that right? Is Claude.md going away? You have a documented dislike of, Agents.md, but you're gonna do it?Claude.md, Agents.md, and Model-Specific InstructionsThariq Shihipar [00:28:10]: Yeah. Okay. So Agents.md, yeah, like, we're, we're gonna do it. I think it's just, like, different models are very different from each other? But I realize that it's, like, such a pain to, like, maintain different ones? And yeah, like, as the models get better and better, the floor of how they accomplish the simpler task is better. And so I do think in the limit, Claude.md goes away, and maybe not even, like, that far. Like, I think, like, I think that right now it might be better to start a new project without a Claude.md.Swyx [00:28:44]: Yes.Thariq Shihipar [00:28:44]: I think that, like, maybe if you see very repeated failure modes, you add them to your Claude.md. The really tough thing is that this changes per model. And so, like, if you've added a bunch of failure modes or, like evenSwyx [00:28:57]: So you need Fable MD, you need Opus MD.Thariq Shihipar [00:28:59]: Or well, even Fable 5.1 versus Fable 5.Swyx [00:29:03]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:29:03]: Like, it is annoying. Like, I'm not like,Swyx [00:29:05]: YeahThariq Shihipar [00:29:05]: Like, we don't, like, do this on purpose? It's just, like, how the models work, right? And so, like, maybe, like, Fable 5 had this, like, failure mode that Fable 5.1 doesn't. And if you keep this context, this running log of a bunch of different failure modes, they will probably over constrain Claude? And so this is like. we just added evals plugins for skills.Swyx [00:29:28]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:29:29]: And so now you can eval if a skill is better. I think Daisy on our team did this. And so, yeah, this is like we're trying to work on this. We know it's, like, you still have to spend tokens on it and, like, it's not, it's not perfect, but it's, like, we're trying to help out with this problem.Swyx [00:29:44]: And so, and as far as prompting goes, the one tip I wanna offer is, something I have told people a lot is sufficiently advanced prompting is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced executive communication. So I've referred to-- This is an executive comms workshop from Heavybit that is the best I've ever seen in my career. And they teach this thing called the SCQA model. Just Google it. It's a, it's a thing. Like, people have done prompting for decades. It's just called executive communication. It's like when one person has to communicate to thousands of people down the org chart, this is what you do. so situation, complication, question and answer, is how you write the memo. but obviously sometimes you don't have the answer, but you can at least list out the SC and Q, and then they have some examples in there. So just leaving breadcrumbs for people if they want to explore.Underrated Prompting Patterns and ELI5Vibhu [00:30:31]: Before we move on, I wanna ask you, any other underrated tips, ways people could get a lot of value from Claude Code that they're not using?Thariq Shihipar [00:30:41]: Yeah, I think a lot of them are in the, this unknowns, like, doc. Like, I give a bunch of example prompts, like, using it for brainstorming, using it to quiz you after. we added this, like, explain it like I'm five skill which is a very short prompt. And it doesn't even say explain it like I'm five. It's like the key word of this prompt is big pictures, few words. like, that's like the main thing. And it is shockingly good? Like, you, like, I think I tweeted about this and it's like /eli5, and, like, you can install it as a plug-in. But yeah, it's, like, way better at just cutting through the BS and being like, yeah, exactly right here. So the diagrams are, like, quite clear. I think one of the things that is true with artifacts is, like, they put too much text in and people are not reading the artifacts? And so, like, this simplifies it a lot more. And, yeah, this came out of, like, just people at Anthropic, like, going through very complicated incidents and being like, “What is happening?”? So, this one I think is great, yeah.Swyx [00:31:47]: My version of this is the, it's like test your understanding. Give you a few choices and then, like, if you get it wrong, you have a mismatch between what you think is happening versus what's happening.Thariq Shihipar [00:31:58]: Yeah. I think this is one of those things that everyone loves talking about, and then very few people really do. Like, I thinkSwyx [00:32:05]: Really helpful.Thariq Shihipar [00:32:07]: Yeah. But most people just don't want to get quizzed about something? Unfortunately, I think this is one of the, like, things that we need to, like.Swyx [00:32:16]: What's the opposite of ask you the question or ask you the question before the thing?Thariq Shihipar [00:32:19]: Yeah.Swyx [00:32:19]: This is after the thing.Thariq Shihipar [00:32:20]: Exactly. Yeah.Vibhu [00:32:21]: It's a good way to stay grounded of, like, do you even know what you're doing, right? The worst case is when people send you slop and they haven't understood what they're asking for or what the output is, and it's like, “Dude, I don't wanna read this. Do you even know what it is?” So, you make it a rule for yourself that before you send stuff, you should at least know what's implemented.Claude Mods: Customizing the HarnessThariq Shihipar [00:32:41]: Yes, but so you could make this a mod and you could build your own mod to, like, make sure you test it. So yeah, you can do that.Swyx [00:32:49]: All right. Let's get right into it. What is Claude Mod, and what is this diagram showing?Thariq Shihipar [00:32:54]: Yeah. Okay, so Claude Mods is you can customize the entire Claude Code harness, and we're going to. If you have requests, we will, like, let you, like, please let us know. We'll add more and more. This works for CLI, it works for desktop. maybe it will work for Claude Tag in the future. I don't know. Like, we're trying to make this very extensible. You can see this reference sheet. I don't want people to get overwhelmed by it? At a high level, you can customize both the execution of the harness, and the UI of the harness. And so, like, you say on that Tetris example from Boris, that's like customizing the UI, right? Like showing, like, Tetris in the game.Thariq Shihipar [00:33:35]: But, like, let's say that you wanted to do this thing where you had. you tested your assumptions or, like, tested your understanding after every project, right? What you would do is you would ask Claude to make this plug-in. It would spin a classifier after every prompt. And so, like, at the end of each turn, you would spin off a sub-agent or, like, a forked agent. A forked agent is, like, maintains the prompt cache, right? So it's like a, like one of those unintuitive things where you can fork and do, like, a little request, and it'll be very cheap because the entire prompt cache is, like, done. And so you can be like, “Has this task been completed?” likeSwyx [00:34:18]: This is how you do BTW and all those.Thariq Shihipar [00:34:20]: Yeah. The underlying forked agent, yes. But so you can, in the f-fork sub-agent, you can say, like, “Has this task been completed? If so, return true.” And then in your hook, or in your, like, plug-in mod, or sorry, like, in the sub-agent probably, you would say, like, “If true, give me a quiz.” give me questions and answers, and then, like, in a JSON format, and then you'd parse it, and then you display above the prompt input, this list of questions, right? And so this is something that's, like, slightly token-intensive because, like, you have to do it after every end of the assistant turn. But it's, like, a lightweight classification, and then you can, like, get this quiz, and then you'll see, like, Claude will always do it for you. You don't need to remember to do it. There are lots of these, like, tips that we've talked about, right, where it's like, oh, implementation notes. You can also add a tool for implementation notes now. And so, like, this tool that I'm adding is, like, register, like, I think assumption is what I'm calling it, but, like, maybe I'll change it around. And this is a mod. And so, like, you give it a register assumption tool, and then it will keep a list. It'll. Every time it does it'll keep a, like, add to the list, and then at the end it will display those assumptions? Another mod I'm working on is a model router. And so, like, internal, like, Claude model routing, right? So it's. This is, I want to say the reason we don't do model routing by default is, like, it's a hard problem? And likeForked Agents, Assumption Tracking, and Model RoutingSwyx [00:35:51]: You will get it wrong.Thariq Shihipar [00:35:52]: Yeah, you, like, yeah, you will, like, accidentally use, like, Fable for a hard problem or Sonnet forSwyx [00:35:57]: Yeah, if you have auto approve, but you don't have auto mode.Thariq Shihipar [00:36:01]: Well, you will have auto. Like, you don't have, like, auto routing or something.Vibhu [00:36:04]: You don't have auto mode for model picker.Thariq Shihipar [00:36:06]: Yeah, exactly. SoVibhu [00:36:07]: I'm getting the rough question of, like, how much do you open this up and how much do people have to think about this? Like, when you talk about prompt caching and building a router, it seems like you could easily build a mod that routes per query, and I'm just killing my plan very fast, right? I guess my question is more so, like, what is, like, a product talk like this look like, right? Who is it for? Is it for power users? Is it everyone should be able to go throughSwyx [00:36:33]: Oh, definitely power users, right?Thariq Shihipar [00:36:35]: Yeah, I think it is power users, but, like, the nature of Claude Code is that so many people are power users? Because it's easy to share things, like you can. Like, one person can make a good model router thing that doesn't break prompt cache all the time, and then you can, like, compose them. Another cool thing about the plug-ins is that they can hook into and compose with each other. And so I have, like, a mod that will, like, create a mode selector at the top, and any plug-ins can register to be a mode. And so, like, the auto router can be a mode, right? Or, like, you can have a mode that's, like, artifact mode, where it's like it primarily talks to you in artifacts. like, you can toggle between plan mode? And so, like, you can create more and more of these modes. But the ability to create modes is in it itself a mod? And so there's a lot of richness here, but we do want to make it fairly easy. We want to be-- make it so that you can just, like, install someone else's. You can ta-- you can chat with Claude and, we'll, like, make sure that it understands the nuances of things like prompt caching and stuff, so it can, like, warn you. This is, like, not extremely complicated behavior for Claude, I think, but we should have just a good skill on how to make mods. and yeah, we'll see how we go. But I do think that this is, like, a preview of, like, mutable software, and, like, how, like, generative software, just like you can customize safely. If enabled, you could customize any piece of software. And I think that more and more apps ideally do something like this?Power Users, Modes, and Mutable SoftwareSwyx [00:38:13]: And by the way, you, we have, you have another cool tweet about how, there's the infinite money button, which is like make your SaaS, consumable by agents. I think mutable software is interesting and, other people have also tried to do it. I think the hurdle comes when you can do everything, then people, users get, tend to get confused. So usually the stuff that works is just like one opinionated flow. This is in the side of less opinionation. It's just like, well, more power to power users. And I think probably unlocked by AI, where, like, you can just prompt for whatever the thing is.Thariq Shihipar [00:38:47]: Yeah, or there can be a skill that gives the opinions?Mods vs. Hooks vs. ArtifactsSwyx [00:38:50]: Yeah.Thariq Shihipar [00:38:50]: And then, yeah.Swyx [00:38:51]: So knowing a little bit about, like, TypeScript and build systems and all these things, the closest-- I'm very curious that the team who worked on this, if, I don't know how close you were to them, if they drew any inspiration from build systems like Babel, Webpack, all these, like, old school things. Because it sounds very similar, like the plug-in ecosystem of those things where they can compose with each other.Thariq Shihipar [00:39:11]: Yeah, I'm not deep in the technical details, but I do know it was a collaboration with someone on the Bun team and someone on the Claude Code team.Swyx [00:39:17]: Yeah, it's a build system mecca.Thariq Shihipar [00:39:19]: Yeah. Exactly. It's, it's very exciting. But yeah, like, agents can just do this very complicated like, extensibility into your software now. And so, yeah, like, another reason to, like. If you run a startup, like, you can just prompt Claude and be like, “Hey, like, could we make an extension system? Like, what would that look like?”?Swyx [00:39:37]: Yeah.Swyx [00:39:38]: And I just really wonder, like, you had hooks in the past and plug-ins, all these things. So what specifically will mods be able to do that those things could not do?Thariq Shihipar [00:39:47]: Internally, we were originally calling this function hooks. And so, like, that's, like, gives you a little bit of an idea where, like, hooks register a, like an event to happen and then, like, a script to call. And this inside of the, like, TypeScript runtime is running things. And so, like, you get some benefits of just, like, it has a bunch of things in the Scope with, like, for example, like how many turns is in this conversation, right? Like, how many tokens have been used? Like, et cetera. Like, what are the messages? Things like that. So it has a bunch of messages that can be used. And then it's just, like, a lot more hooks. So we have, like, or a lot of, lot more, like, things you can register on. And then you can do because of the. because it's all happening in process, you can, spawn sub-agents, with four contests and contexts and stuff. And, like, that will return. You can parse the results of those. You can use structured output to like, return them. and then you can modify the UI, which you can never do in hooks. So, yeah.Swyx [00:40:50]: Yeah. Yeah. So modify UI, this is why you showed the Tetris example. Does it also ex-extend to artifacts? I assume it does.Thariq Shihipar [00:40:57]: You-- Like, artifacts are like a different way of customizing it. like, you can definitely. One of the mods I'm working on is, like, this dashboard mod, which will, like, prompt Claude to maintain a dashboard, that's an artifact. But they're like, slightly orthogonal, or not orthogonal. They compose with each other in different ways. Like, mods are, like, a little bit more, like, in your Claude Code harness, changing the agent loop? And, like, the UI is, like, an added benefit. and then artifacts are just like you want to, see things at a high level, very inter- highly interactive. like, the affordances can be a lot bigger than, like a TUI or even in our desktop.Next Steps, Supervisors, and Persistent GuidanceVibhu [00:41:40]: I'm guessing you'll have a good blog post on the differences, because right now you can also, make a loop that outputs to an artifact that's an interactive dashboard, but you can also do it with a mod. There's just some thinking about making a hacking on a harness when we don't know much about the harness, right?Thariq Shihipar [00:42:00]: Well, something I'm excited about with mods is, like, there's so much things with Claude Code that you just have to remember? You're like, “Oh, like, let me do this, and then let me call the dashboard skill that does the loop,” and things like that. And, or like, “Let me test my assumptions afterwards.” And I think, like, if you do all of these things using these little classifiers and stuff, and you're like, “These are the things I care about. This is what I want to do,” you can, like. You don't have to remember as much. One more, like, mod I'm working on is a next steps mod thatSwyx [00:42:28]: I have-- I was gonna say, I have a next step skill. I always run next steps.Thariq Shihipar [00:42:32]: And does it have access to your skills? Like, this is one of those things where I'm like.Swyx [00:42:37]: I think so.Thariq Shihipar [00:42:38]: Okay. Yeah, probablyVibhu [00:42:39]: Do skills need specific access toThariq Shihipar [00:42:41]: Well, I think there'sSwyx [00:42:41]: Don't they always haveThariq Shihipar [00:42:42]: I think there's, like, specific prompting, I guess, to, like, know your skills. Like I think Claude forgets them sometimes throughout, like, the thing. But anyways, the idea of, like, yeah, next steps that also are like, “Oh, hey, this has happened. Use the explain skill to explain to you what happened because this seems, like, quite complex,”? Or, like, yeah, “Use your unknown skill. It looks like you are, like, asking the model to, like, iterate on these small changes. It seems like you could prompt better.” like, “What if you did this?” Right? So, I think, yeah, like spending more compute there. Yeah.Swyx [00:43:20]: And it should always come out as multiple choice. we have, I haveVibhu [00:43:23]: We have his skill.Swyx [00:43:24]: My next step skill is like this.Thariq Shihipar [00:43:26]: Okay, perfect. Yeah.Swyx [00:43:27]: You can steal it.Thariq Shihipar [00:43:28]: Yeah.Swyx [00:43:29]: Like, but like, for me, it's all-- I think models really always need to be reminded, what are you trying to do here?Thariq Shihipar [00:43:35]: Yeah.Swyx [00:43:35]: Look at the whole transcript and go like, oh, was this original goal? Did your solution solve it? Were you lazy? If you're lazy, maybe there's a reason. Maybe you needed approval from me. Maybe you needed, there's two things you wanna suggest. So it's, it's a little bit like the modification of the ask user question or interview me skill. so it's next steps.Thariq Shihipar [00:43:55]: Yeah, exactly. And again, the benefit of doing it with mods is you can do it as a fork sub-agent, and so it doesn't remain in the context afterwards. So you have this, like, idea of like, okay, the model is doing its execution and you have this almost like supervisor, like, that is like making sure that you can do like the next steps well. So yeah.Swyx [00:44:15]: Yes. I do have two panels and like I often try to have a supervisor thing, keep the high-level context and then the implementationThariq Shihipar [00:44:21]: YeahSwyx [00:44:22]: Detail in another agent.Vibhu [00:44:23]: I feel like a lot of this abstracts away as models change? The, like, half an hour ago you said bitter lesson of harness engineeringThe Bitter Lesson of Harness EngineeringThariq Shihipar [00:44:31]: YeahVibhu [00:44:31]: And we're on the other extreme right now, I feel.Swyx [00:44:33]: Well, so yeah, exactly. If everything's customizable, what is Claude Code, right?Thariq Shihipar [00:44:37]: Yeah.Swyx [00:44:37]: And which I talked to you about last night.Thariq Shihipar [00:44:40]: Yeah, I think that this is. I think the bitter lesson is unintuitive? In terms of like. Also, like we're misusing a little bit of the bitter lesson here where it's like, it's more about like scaling and compute and stuff. But like, I think there is something where it's just like. I think I use it as an approximation here to say that harnesses go out of date very quickly? And like how, but how they change is unintuitive? And so like the big obvious example is like from chat to like agents where you had to give them entirely new tools, right? But like, I think this new version of like, oh, it can modify its own harness, right? This is like, an own harness loop is like a way of using its capabilities, right? Or like it can build an artifact. And like, I think the way I think about it is like the models have more and more intelligence, and they're like so much more intelligent now than like the average software engineering task. Like, you look at the like terminal bench ones and they're like solve like the Jacobian conjecture. Not really, but like, it's like they're, they're quite complex. Like, I would not have been able to do this really as a software engineer.Swyx [00:45:42]: And you said TB4 or TB2?Thariq Shihipar [00:45:43]: TB3. TB3.Swyx [00:45:44]: TB3.Thariq Shihipar [00:45:44]: Yeah. They're quite complex, but the goal is still to deliver user value, right? And like you said, there's like this infinite space of things to do. And so the ways like you spend compute are to keep the user in the loop and make sure that like you're getting to the right decision in the end of the day and like the right output. And artifacts and mods are this way of like spending that intelligence. and I think that's like, yeah, the next step. And so, yeah, I think Claude Code is like, has the core things of agent loop which are, have gotten more complicated. It's like, it needs a sandbox to operate safely. It needs auto mode to like make sure like the permissionsVibhu [00:46:21]: Approvals.Thariq Shihipar [00:46:21]: Yeah, approvals. it needs computer use and MCPs and like all of these like ways of accessing your data, and it needs web search and web fetch. And like, so the-- as the models can do more and more, the core harness has to be like quite complex and very secure. But then like how you interact with it can change quite a lot.Vibhu [00:46:42]: What other harness engineering best practices have you, from the Claude Code team itself? I feel like, there was a phase of plan mode, which is not as used. We now have auto mode. at a point you cut the majority of the system prompt, you got rid of examples. What other best practices are there for harness engineering?Core Harness Primitives and Managed AgentsThariq Shihipar [00:47:02]: I think there is like a forking path where at some point, eventually, yes, the model will just be able to like vibe code the exact version of Claude Code, even describing all this complexity that I've talked about, right? Like auto mode and computer use and stuff. Eventually, the models will just be able to do that in one shot. But I think they can one shot simpler harnesses? And so like, I think some people. Sometimes you don't need this full, like if you don't need computer use or like all this like more complicated stuff. I think before we, you had to use things like the agent SDK, which was like Claude Code wrapped, in order to like. And I would, like suggest people do that because there was so much complexity into building a harness. And now as that's got more abstracted, we have like, Claude managed agents, which lets you have that complexity, but still like, right, like a very bare bones like harness that's scoped to your task. Yeah, I think there's like this barbell effect where like for like very complex, for like coding task and like these like complex things, you should use our harness. And then for like a lot of like simpler or like, more domain-specific things, you can build your own harness because Claude has gotten better at building harnesses, and we have these harness primitives like managed agents. So yeah.Swyx [00:48:18]: Yeah. Is there a general progression? Let's say chapter one was ultra code dynamic workflows, then chapter two was cloud mods. Where is this going?Swyx [00:48:29]: Where you're, you're, you can customize the thing on demand.Thariq Shihipar [00:48:36]: Yeah. I do think that like this evolution of projects and like artifacts and splitting out like brain and hands and, surfaces is like where things are going more. And like, I think it's like not all quite there. partially it's like a, it's just like more token expensive? And like, I think likeProjects, Local Hands, and Cloud-to-Local HandoffsSwyx [00:48:59]: Why would projects be more token expensive? I understand mods would be slightly more token expensive. No, not something I'm worried about.Thariq Shihipar [00:49:06]: Yeah.Swyx [00:49:06]: But whatThariq Shihipar [00:49:07]: You're asking Claude to do. It's like creating loops. Like you're asking Claude to do more work for you. And so like it's managing the sub-agents and reviewing it, versus where you would be doing that work normally. And so that's like gonna be a little bit more intensive, like. Outputting to an artifact is gonna be a little bit more token-intensive than, like, outputting normally. I don't think it's too much more, but like, it's like combining all of these together well, like I think we're, we're still working on like local hands and things like that, I think is like, yeah, where things are headed, yeah.Swyx [00:49:37]: Yeah. Claude and local is, handoff is very interesting. I was thinking about this as reverse cloud remote.Thariq Shihipar [00:49:44]: Yeah.Swyx [00:49:45]: Because it's like remote, it's you're handing off to cloud, but here the cloud is handing off to local, right?Thariq Shihipar [00:49:49]: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, remote control is also another way of doing it. And I do want to say this is like how I think about it and like what the things that I'm most excited about this, but like there are, just like lots of different ways to work with Claude. Like some people use remote control a lot, some people use Claude Code on the web a lot. Obviously, like at Anthropic, we use Claude Tag a lot, and like what's great about Claude Tag is we set up all this stuff for our own execution. And I do think if you're an enterprise, that's still the best way to go. but if you're like an individual, Projects is this way of like, getting some of that like niceness of Tag, which has like that like supervising agent and yeah, adding artifacts and stuff, but like without having that whole like admin setup. And so there will be many ways to use Claude, I think. I think it's probably not just one like single.Claude Tag as an Organizational HarnessSwyx [00:50:36]: You had the multiplayer thing here. Let's, let's just check in on Claude Tag. it's been about two-plus months. Lots of, public, adoption and trying it out.Thariq Shihipar [00:50:45]: Yeah.Swyx [00:50:45]: What's new? What's, what have you found since the launch?Thariq Shihipar [00:50:49]: Like, Claude Tag is how we useSwyx [00:50:51]: It's like 80% of your

To give you an idea of the asteroid traffic in our neighborhood, on a mostly cloudy night, through holes in the clouds, in a space of less than 2 hours, my Catalina Sky Survey teammate Richard Kowalski posted 7 new close approaching asteroid discoveries on the Minor Planet Center's Near Earth Object Confirmation Page

We get into an abbreviated version of the Male Sack so we can chat with the Homey, Mike Richman to see what stood out to him from Blazers Media Day.

SummaryIn this episode of the Blue Security Podcast, hosts Andy Jaw and Adam discuss two significant cybersecurity incidents: the emergence of AI API drain attacks and the implications of military strikes on AWS data centers. They explore how attackers can exploit API keys to run up costs without directly breaching networks and the lessons learned from AWS's experience with data loss due to drone strikes. The conversation emphasizes the evolving landscape of cybersecurity threats and the importance of robust threat modeling and data management practices.----------------------------------------------------YouTube Video Link: https://youtu.be/JWzG46q898c----------------------------------------------------Documentation: https://cybernews.com/security/hackers-advertise-ai-token-draining-service/https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/09/iran-strikes-on-amazon-data-centers-caused-permanent-loss-of-customer-data/----------------------------------------------------Contact Us:Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluesecuritypod.comBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/bluesecuritypod.comLinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/bluesecpodYouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/BlueSecurityPodcast-----------------------------------------------------------Andy JawBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ajawzero.comLinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyjaw/Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠andy@bluesecuritypod.com⁠----------------------------------------------------Adam BrewerTwitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/ajbrewerLinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjbrewer/Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@bluesecuritypod.com

By Doug Green “Don't keep all of your data in one location.” In this Technology Reseller News podcast recorded at MSP Summit in Orlando, Nazar Freeny, CEO of Amanah Tech, discusses the growing demand for Canadian data center capacity, data sovereignty and alternatives to putting every workload into the public cloud. Amanah Tech is a Toronto-based IT and data center services provider operating from 151 Front Street West, one of Canada's most important connectivity and data center locations. The company provides colocation and dedicated server services for businesses, MSPs and service providers supporting AI and other data-intensive applications. Freeny says AI is helping drive renewed attention toward physical infrastructure. Autonomous systems, AI applications and other emerging technologies generate enormous amounts of data, creating new requirements around storage, compute, connectivity and proximity. For U.S.-based MSPs serving Canadian customers, data location is also becoming a bigger consideration. Freeny says many Canadian organizations increasingly want their information hosted inside Canada, creating an opportunity for MSPs to establish a Canadian infrastructure presence without having to build their own facilities. That fits into a broader shift he sees away from automatically putting every workload into a hyperscale public cloud. Public cloud remains important, but Freeny says customers are increasingly looking at cost, control, security and the ability to determine exactly where their data resides. That can lead toward hybrid environments combining cloud services with dedicated infrastructure or colocation. With colocation, customers bring their own hardware while Amanah Tech supplies secure space, power and connectivity. With dedicated servers, Amanah Tech provides the equipment and infrastructure for the customer. For MSPs, Freeny says geographic diversification can also become part of the infrastructure strategy. Rather than depending entirely on a single country, provider or cloud environment, partners can give customers additional choices around where workloads and data are located. His message to MSPs is straightforward: diversify. “Politics change. Business dynamics change,” Freeny says. “Always try to diversify your presence and your opportunities.” Visit Amanah.com to learn more.  

Can contemplation be practical, playful, and deeply healing? Today on Talk Gnosis, we sit down with scholar, author, and translator […]

00:00:00 Lamentations 1 – How Doth the City Sit Solitary as a Widow Weeping Sore in the Night00:04:36 Lamentations 2 – How Hath the Lord Covered the Daughter of Zion with a Cloud in His Anger00:09:21 Lamentations 3 – I Am the Man That Hath Seen Affliction by the Rod of His Wrath00:14:04 Lamentations 4 – How Is the Gold Become Dim and the Most Fine Gold Changed00:17:24 Lamentations 5 – Remember O Lord What Is Come Upon Us and Consider Our Reproach

Mr. Cloud and I talk about Jay Electronica missing his two shows. Jay has a chance to redeem himself in Phoenix. Will he show up at Ye's performance on 11/21/2026. Third time's a charm. Also, guess whose government name is Larry.

Enrique Toussaint has lived in the metro area for decades, and is known for performing in many musical genres, and for also his behind the scenes work in the music world. But bassist Enrique is most proud of his work with his two brothers, Fernando, the drummer, and the late Eugenio, keyboardist and lead composer. Growing up in Mexico City, the 3 brothers formed a band called Sacbe, Mayan for the Spanish el Camino Blanco, which translates to The White Road in English. The new CD, called el Camino Blanco, is a remix of classic work, with additional ideas added recently. In a conversation with Phil Nusbaum, Enrique first talked about the opening piece, Nube 1, or Cloud 1.

Die Wall Street startet kaum verändert in den Tag. Die Renditen zehnjähriger US-Staatsanleihen pausieren bei 5,22 Prozent, Brent bei etwa 105 US-Dollar. Gleichzeitig bleiben die Signale aus den Gesprächen zwischen den USA und Iran widersprüchlich. Von „konstruktiven“ Verhandlungen ist die Rede, ein diplomatischer Durchbruch zeichnet sich aber bislang nicht ab. Im Mittelpunkt steht heute erneut Künstliche Intelligenz. Beim OpenAI Entwickler-Tag wird ein eigener persönlicher KI-Agent erwartet, der direkt mit Meta‘s Muse konkurrieren könnte. Gleichzeitig hat OpenAI die Veröffentlichung von Astra 6.1 wegen Sicherheitsbedenken gestoppt. Erstmals hält damit ein führendes KI-Labor ein größeres Modell öffentlich aus Sicherheitsgründen zurück. Für zusätzliche Aufmerksamkeit sorgt Anthropic. In dem noch nicht veröffentlichten Börsenprospekt werden langfristige Verpflichtungen für Cloud, Rechenleistung und Infrastruktur von insgesamt 518 Milliarden US-Dollar genannt. Advanced Micro Devices kauft zudem Fei-Fei Lis World Labs für 8,2 Milliarden US-Dollar und baut damit selbst Know-how bei KI-Modellen auf. Das Oura den Börsengang wegen des unsicheren Umfelds vertagt, könnte als schlechtes Omen für den IPO von Anthropic gesehen werden. Ein Podcast - featured by Handelsblatt. ► Transparenz, faire Preisbildung und direkter Börsenhandel: tradegate.direct steht für Börsenhandel über die regulierte Exchange – hinter dem Angebot steht eine Vollbank mit langjähriger Erfahrung. Mehr unter https://bit.ly/WallStreetTradegatedirectOktober ► Jetzt beim Börsenspiel Trader mitmachen und Range Rover Evoque gewinnen: https://sg-zerti.de/wall-street-podcast ► Meine Trades. Direkter Austausch.

Die Wall Street startet kaum verändert in den Tag. Die Renditen zehnjähriger US-Staatsanleihen pausieren bei 5,22 Prozent, Brent bei etwa 105 US-Dollar. Gleichzeitig bleiben die Signale aus den Gesprächen zwischen den USA und Iran widersprüchlich. Von „konstruktiven“ Verhandlungen ist die Rede, ein diplomatischer Durchbruch zeichnet sich aber bislang nicht ab. Im Mittelpunkt steht heute erneut Künstliche Intelligenz. Beim OpenAI Entwickler-Tag wird ein eigener persönlicher KI-Agent erwartet, der direkt mit Meta‘s Muse konkurrieren könnte. Gleichzeitig hat OpenAI die Veröffentlichung von Astra 6.1 wegen Sicherheitsbedenken gestoppt. Erstmals hält damit ein führendes KI-Labor ein größeres Modell öffentlich aus Sicherheitsgründen zurück. Für zusätzliche Aufmerksamkeit sorgt Anthropic. In dem noch nicht veröffentlichten Börsenprospekt werden langfristige Verpflichtungen für Cloud, Rechenleistung und Infrastruktur von insgesamt 518 Milliarden US-Dollar genannt. Advanced Micro Devices kauft zudem Fei-Fei Lis World Labs für 8,2 Milliarden US-Dollar und baut damit selbst Know-how bei KI-Modellen auf. Das Oura den Börsengang wegen des unsicheren Umfelds vertagt, könnte als schlechtes Omen für den IPO von Anthropic gesehen werden. Abonniere den Podcast, um keine Folge zu verpassen! ____ Folge uns, um auf dem Laufenden zu bleiben: • X: http://fal.cn/SQtwitter • LinkedIn: http://fal.cn/SQlinkedin • Instagram: http://fal.cn/SQInstagram

En el debate han participado: Antonio Ruiz-Falcó, CEO de Pue Control; Julio Lema, Cloud Sales de A1 Digital; Salvador Folgado, Head of Cloud & Modern Infrastructure en Atos Iberia; Nuria Rodríguez, Directora de Consulting services & Business Development de Kynegos; y Javier de la Cruz, Head of Cloud and Edge de Capgemini.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Becky asks, “What's on your mind?” If you're like Becky, you may immediately go into fix-it mode, but sometimes we need to talk to someone and bring what's on our mind to God, allowing Him to renew our mind (Romans 12:12) and help us focus on what is true, honorable, and good (Philippians 4:8). I'm 21yo and live with my mom, who smokes marijuana every day. I used to smoke but haven't for months, and she still smokes inside the house, so should I get away from it and let her do whatever she wants? My 30-year-old son lives with me and hasn't seen his children for two years after his ex-wife coached them to make false accusations against him. How should he approach his 7- and 9-year-old children when he begins seeing them again? I've been married for 30 years to my paraplegic wife, who says I don't listen, but I still find her attractive despite not receiving any respect, honor, affection, or touch from her. I have stage 3 Parkinson's and blood cancer, and my husband of 32 years has become a bully, acting like he's going to hit me and getting angry while caring for me. I have two children but can't live with them, so where can I go for help?

AWS Morning Brief for the week of September 28th, with Corey Quinn. Links:AWS Network Security Manager is now generally available in US East (N. Virginia) RegionAWS PrivateLink announces Tunnel Endpoints to access network segmentsWrong, not brokenIntroducing Amazon CloudWatch Omni: AI-powered observability for generative AI and agentic workloadsIntroducing enhanced custom event buses in Amazon EventBridge for enterprise-scale event-driven applicationsAdding custom domains to AWS Lambda MicroVMs with Application Load BalancerRunning self-hosted AI agent sandboxes with AWS Lambda MicroVMsHow BMW Group detects cost anomalies across 14,000 cloud accountsFour AWS CVEs in a row, escalating nicely

Voters this November will decide on a constitutional amendment that could change how much money public and charter schools get from a state trust. A breakdown of the Permanent School Fund and what's on the ballot.St. Paul Mayor Kaohly Her is facing sexual harassment allegations from the police chief. We'll hear from one city council member on why she's calling for the release of the full report from a city investigation into the allegations.Plus, you may have heard about forever chemicals and just how hard they can be to remove. Researchers in St. Cloud may have found a way to actually destroy PFAS.Also, the Minnesota Vikings are off to a hot start for the season, while the Minnesota Lynx went cold for their playoff opener. Our Minnesota Music Minute was “Stranger Blues” by Lamont Cranston Band and our Song of the Day was “Blue Sky” by Push and Turn.

PFAS, also known as “forever chemicals,” were once thought of as impossible to remove from the environment. They're still seen as difficult and expensive to remove from wastewater, a common place for the PFAS to be found. A pilot project in St. Cloud tested a technology to do just that, and researchers found that the process they used destroyed more than 99 percent of the PFAS they tested. Luke Langner, the public services director for the city of St. Cloud and Andy McCabe an environmental engineer with Barr Engineering who conducted the pilot, joined Minnesota Now to talk about the technology.

We're getting spooky as the crew explores the "paranormal mimic" that tricked a listener into cuddling a ghost instead of his girl!

LikeFolio's Megan Brantley sees consumer interest in Carnival (CCL) up about 15% year over year with strong forward looking demand for the 2027 cruise season. She notes Carnival's value positioning is drawing families booking seven day cruises and party crowds on four day trips, with onboard spending up 9% last quarter even as ticket prices rose just 2%. Brantley remains cautiously bullish with an earnings score of 24, tempered by fuel costs, stretched consumer budgets, and conflict impacting European demand.======== Schwab Network ========Empowering every investor and trader, every market day. Subscribe to the Market Minute newsletter - https://schwabnetwork.com/subscribeDownload the iOS app - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/schwab-network/id1460719185Download the Amazon Fire Tv App - https://www.amazon.com/TD-Ameritrade-Network/dp/B07KRD76C7Watch on Sling - https://watch.sling.com/1/asset/191928615bd8d47686f94682aefaa007/watchWatch on Vizio - https://www.vizio.com/en/watchfreeplus-exploreWatch on DistroTV - https://www.distro.tv/live/schwab-network/Follow us on X – https://twitter.com/schwabnetworkFollow us on Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/schwabnetworkFollow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/schwab-network/ About Schwab Network - https://schwabnetwork.com/about

D.A. Davidson's Gil Luria talks with TITV Host Akash Pasricha about Nvidia's software to control rogue AI agents an Meta's enterprise push. We also talk with The Information's Grace Kay about Tesla Optimus production snags and Amy Dockser Marcus about the AI vs. human biotech race. Lastly, we get into AI agents going rogue with Zapier CEO Wade Foster.Articles discussed in today's show:https://www.theinformation.com/briefings/nvidia-releases-products-stop-ai-going-roguehttps://www.theinformation.com/briefings/meta-taps-mongodb-ceo-lead-new-enterprise-ai-divisionSubscribe: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theinformation The Information: https://www.theinformation.com/subscribe_hSign up for the AI Agenda newsletter: https://www.theinformation.com/features/ai-agendaTITV airs weekdays on YouTube, X and LinkedIn at 10AM PT / 1PM ET. Or check us out wherever you get your podcasts.Follow us:X: https://x.com/theinformationIG: https://www.instagram.com/theinformation/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@titv.theinformationLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/theinformation/Chapters:00:00 - Introduction01:13 - Nvidia Agent Safety & Meta's Cloud Push17:38 - Tesla Optimus Hits Scale-Up Production Snags26:11 - Inside the AI vs. Humans Biotech Race36:44 - Zapier CEO Wade Foster on AI Agents Going Rogue

Encore registration - "Piano Ten Thousand Leaves" was completed on May 16, 2026. And as a post-completion activity, I hope to deliver it to people 1000 years from now. And so, I have begun "Piano Ten Thousand Leaves - beyond completion -- The Millennium Forest --". I will not be creating any new songs, but I will select one song from the 4536 songs I previously created and re-register it here. ===================================================== 《ピアノ万葉集》は2026年5月16日に完結しました。 そして完結後の活動として、1000年後の皆様に届けたいと考えています。 そして、《ピアノ万葉集》完結世界 -- 深森千年紀 -- を始めています。 そして新しい曲は創りませんが、前に創っている4536曲の中から１曲を選んでここで再登録させて頂きます。 =========================== The Complete Works of Piano Ten Thousand Leaves Vol.5-3 =========================== #spotify: https://open.spotify.com/intl-ja/album/7dpZphjh4nebLxw8UO5JNB?si=iYRaahrLRZC4cMfWq_hfIg #AppleMusic: https://music.apple.com/jp/album/the-complete-works-of-piano-ten-thousand-leaves-vol-5-3/6814144446  #amazonmusic https://amazon.co.jp/music/player/albums/B0HKG18YVF?marketplaceId=A1VC38T7YXB528&musicTerritory=JP&ref=dm_sh_kdpBHJZjih94tse2VLxvcoklk ＃YoutubeMusic: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mp3Gx_7JmEsNWMLiyBZ7Rjw7COCcYcrYk&si=i-3gYwG4QuHfS3EH #LineMusic https://lin.ee/60nOcUh #AWA https://s.awa.fm/album/a2599466234f6e3ed217?t=1789930807 --- All Music Streaming Services: 全曲視聴可能なのが嬉しいですね… https://linkco.re/86QhpPU9 . =========================== The Complete Works of Piano Ten Thousand Leaves Vol.5-1 =========================== #spotify: https://open.spotify.com/intl-ja/album/25MqriuFawubLnRWZFwWUO?si=2W97pxr3Re-6-XiEGeED8A #AppleMusic: https://music.apple.com/jp/album/the-complete-works-of-piano-ten-thousand-leaves-vol-5-1/6809151834  #amazonmusic URL is not available yet. ＃YoutubeMusic: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nsI3XhF0pnuDlOhLCR5A9FEfionGI0gLk&si=Bsi5iaL6HWYTaegR #LineMusic https://lin.ee/83t2Rlq #AWA https://s.awa.fm/album/db8373715401e09a0937?t=1788710413 --- All Music Streaming Services: 全曲視聴可能なのが嬉しいですね… https://linkco.re/qYUDdBy7

God led the Israelites through the wilderness using a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. When the cloud moved, they moved. When it stopped, they stopped. This was not a system built around human schedules or preferences. It was a daily, visible reminder that God provides direction, not a timetable, and that His people are called to trust Him with both. The cloud rose upward when it was time to move, not sideways or away, so that even the last person at the back of the camp could see it clearly. That detail matters. God does not lead only the people at the front. He leads everyone, including those who feel the furthest from Him.One of the most practical questions this raises is whether you are a natural stayer or a natural mover. Stayers can confuse comfort with God's will, settling into what is familiar and calling it faithfulness. Movers can confuse restlessness with calling, constantly chasing the next thing without ever putting down roots or finishing what they started. Both tendencies can pull us away from genuine obedience. The ancient Greeks understood this tension through two words for time: chronos, the measurable tick of the clock, and kairos, the appointed moment filled with divine purpose. We have become so obsessed with chronos that we miss the kairos moments happening right in front of us.Following God's leading today looks like four practical steps: getting still before Him without distraction, reading Scripture and letting His Word speak, listening for the peace that the Holy Spirit provides as a guide, and seeking wise counsel alongside prayer. When we do these things consistently, we put ourselves in a position to hear what Isaiah described as a voice behind us saying, this is the way, walk in it. And when we follow that voice, God provides. Not always everything we want, but always everything we need. The wilderness journey was not just about reaching a promised land. It was about being led to a promised Person, Jesus Christ, who meets us in every season and sustains us every step of the way.

203 Facing Hospice Concerns: Stories and Solutions Host Marie Betcher, a registered nurse and former hospice nurse, shares two recent conversations highlighting common hospice challenges. In one case, a grandparent was admitted to hospice only 10 hours before death, leaving little time for family education; a caller described being told to "just give them more" medication without clear dosing guidance, underscoring the need for better instruction and repeated follow-up calls for clarification. In the second case, an only child caregiver needed a medical procedure and worried about being unable to physically care for a parent; Marie discusses contacting the hospice team for help, including respite care options such as short-term nursing home placement through Medicare, as well as self-pay adult family homes, nursing homes, or CNAs, noting costs and limited resources. She reminds listeners hospice is not typically a full-time caregiver, suggests using Medicare.gov to find and compare agencies, and encourages reaching out or switching providers if needs aren't met. 00:00 Welcome and Disclaimer 00:28 Meet Your Host Marie 00:42 Story One Late Hospice Referral 01:32 Medication Guidance Needs 02:51 Story Two Caregiver Crisis 03:47 Respite and Care Options 05:05 Keep Calling Hospice Team 05:26 Hospice Is Not the Caregiver 05:54 Finding and Switching Agencies 07:00 Closing Thoughts and Contact   If you want to help, you can donate to help support Hospice Explained at the Buy me a Coffee link   https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Hospice  Hospice Explained Affiliates & Contact Information Buying from these Affilite links will help support this Podcast.  Maire introduces a partnership with Suzanne Mayer RN inventor of the  cloud9caresystem.com,  When patients remain in the same position for extended periods, they are at high risk of developing pressure injuries, commonly known as bedsores. One of the biggest challenges caregivers face is the tendency for pillows and repositioning inserts to easily dislodge during care.(Suzanne is a former guest on Episode #119) When you order with Cloud 9 care system, please tell them you heard about them from Hospice Explained.(Thank You) Marie's Contact Marie@HospiceExplained.com www.HospiceExplained.com   Finding a Hospice Agency 1. You can use Medicare.gov to help find a hospice agency, 2. choose Find provider 3. Choose Hospice 4. then add your zip code This should be a list of Hospice Agencies local to you or your loved one.

Reach out to Cody and Buhler to tell them what's up!Week 4 was a wild one!On the latest episode of False Start, John Buhler (Lead Writer, FanSided) and Cody Williams (Content Director, FanSided.com) reacted to an exciting Week 4 slate.With six ranked-on-ranked matchups, there was so much to discuss...Florida is a top 10 team, while Texas A&M may struggle to get to a bowl game.While Texas survived a close scare from Tennessee, Penn State was not as fortunate versus Wisconsin.False Start never arrives early, and is always on time!Support the show

Cloud Grounding for Restful Sleep is a gentle twenty-minute guided meditation for a supported pause in the day. Follow the breath, notice support beneath you, and allow a little spacious attention without forcing a result.PracticeA quiet invitation to notice breathing, body support, natural sound, and the pace of the present moment.Chapters• 00:03 — Arrival• 04:18 — Grounding• 09:39 — Spacious Attention• 16:29 — ReturnWellness NoteGeneral wellness only; this episode is not medical or mental-health treatment. Follow at your own pace and leave any instruction aside if it does not feel right.Credits & CorrectionsThe surrounding natural ambience supports the quiet setting. Produced by HustleStudios. Factual corrections: hustlestudioph@gmail.com. Sound effect from #Uppbeat: ‘Forest ambience with rain birds' by Mechanical Wave. https://uppbeat.io/sfx/forest-ambience-with-rain-birds/1252/7061Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/support.Thank you for sharing this quiet moment with us.Follow Your Quiet Moment for daily guided meditations, calming affirmations, mindful breathing, gentle relaxation, and peaceful practices designed to fit into real life.If this episode helped you slow down, consider sharing it with someone who may need a quiet moment today.Support the podcast and help us continue creating accessible moments of calm:https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/supportPlease do not use guided meditation while driving, operating machinery, or doing anything that requires your complete attention.This podcast provides general relaxation and wellness content. It is not medical advice, diagnosis, psychotherapy, or a substitute for professional mental health care.Your Quiet Moment is produced by HustleStudios Podcast Network.

Cloud Breath Before Dawn is a gentle ten-minute guided meditation for the quiet hours before morning. Follow the breath, notice support beneath you, and allow a little spacious attention without forcing a result.PracticeA quiet invitation to notice breathing, body support, natural sound, and the pace of the present moment.Chapters• 00:03 — Arrival• 03:30 — Practice• 09:12 — ReturnWellness NoteGeneral wellness only; this episode is not medical or mental-health treatment. Follow at your own pace and leave any instruction aside if it does not feel right.Credits & CorrectionsThe surrounding natural ambience supports the quiet setting. Produced by HustleStudios. Factual corrections: hustlestudioph@gmail.com. Sound effect from #Uppbeat: ‘Forest ambience with rain birds' by Mechanical Wave. https://uppbeat.io/sfx/forest-ambience-with-rain-birds/1252/7061Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/support.Thank you for sharing this quiet moment with us.Follow Your Quiet Moment for daily guided meditations, calming affirmations, mindful breathing, gentle relaxation, and peaceful practices designed to fit into real life.If this episode helped you slow down, consider sharing it with someone who may need a quiet moment today.Support the podcast and help us continue creating accessible moments of calm:https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/supportPlease do not use guided meditation while driving, operating machinery, or doing anything that requires your complete attention.This podcast provides general relaxation and wellness content. It is not medical advice, diagnosis, psychotherapy, or a substitute for professional mental health care.Your Quiet Moment is produced by HustleStudios Podcast Network.

Cloud Spacious Night of Gentle Rest is a gentle four-hour guided meditation for a supported pause in the day. Follow the breath, notice support beneath you, and allow a little spacious attention without forcing a result.PracticeA quiet invitation to notice breathing, body support, natural sound, and the pace of the present moment.Chapters• 00:00 — Arrival• 10:00 — Settling• 50:00 — Deepening• 2:05:00 — Sustained Quiet• 3:05:00 — Gentle ReturnWellness NoteGeneral wellness only; this episode is not medical or mental-health treatment. Follow at your own pace and leave any instruction aside if it does not feel right.Credits & CorrectionsThe surrounding natural ambience supports the quiet setting. Produced by HustleStudios. Factual corrections: hustlestudioph@gmail.com. Sound effect from #Uppbeat: ‘Summer night ambience' by Epic Stock Media. https://uppbeat.io/sfx/summer-night-ambience/8940/24216Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/support.Thank you for sharing this quiet moment with us.Follow Your Quiet Moment for daily guided meditations, calming affirmations, mindful breathing, gentle relaxation, and peaceful practices designed to fit into real life.If this episode helped you slow down, consider sharing it with someone who may need a quiet moment today.Support the podcast and help us continue creating accessible moments of calm:https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/your-quiet-moment--6944063/supportPlease do not use guided meditation while driving, operating machinery, or doing anything that requires your complete attention.This podcast provides general relaxation and wellness content. It is not medical advice, diagnosis, psychotherapy, or a substitute for professional mental health care.Your Quiet Moment is produced by HustleStudios Podcast Network.

Data centres are being built at an unprecedented pace, but protecting these highly specialized facilities from fire presents challenges that go well beyond a typical commercial building. In this episode of the Fire Sprinkler Podcast, I sit down with Johnson Controls (JCI) to discuss fire protection in the rapidly expanding data centre market and how these facilities are changing the way fire protection systems are designed, installed, and maintained. We get into the unique risks found inside data centres, the importance of protecting mission-critical infrastructure, and the different layers of fire protection required to keep these facilities operational. We also discuss sprinkler protection, detection and suppression strategies, system reliability, coordination between fire protection disciplines, and the consequences that even a relatively small fire event can have when downtime is measured in millions of dollars. As data centre construction continues to accelerate across North America, fire protection contractors, designers, engineers, inspectors, and facility operators are going to encounter these projects more frequently. This conversation provides a practical look at what makes data centre fire protection different and what the industry needs to be thinking about as this market continues to grow. If you work in fire sprinklers, fire alarm, special hazards, engineering, inspection, or data centre construction, this is a conversation worth hearing.

A Mediocre Time with Tom & Dan: Episode Notes Episode: "69 Come Sticks" (#894) Hosts: Tom Vann, Dan Dennis | Guest: Ross McCoy (comedian, The Orlando Talk Show) Sponsors / Ad Reads Bart the Realtor / The Bart Marek Team: Opened with a host doing a "cool dude" character, then Bart called in. He said Central Florida real estate is having a rough, locked-up year because 30-year rates are near 7.25%. Cash buyers have the edge, and homes that have sat for a month or more have room to negotiate. His team is also doing a lot of estate, job-loss, and divorce sales. barttherealtor.com has cell numbers for Bart Marek and Crystal Vann. Bart has been a gold star sponsor for nearly 15 years. Seaz Nuts 2027 Tom & Dan Cruise: On the MSC Seashore out of Port Canaveral, with stops in Nassau and Ocean Cay. Interior staterooms start at $1,200 for two and include Wi-Fi, in-room breakfast, and a premium drink package (15 drinks a day). There will be a live broadcast and the Mediocre Idol karaoke contest. Deposits at tomanddancruise2027.com. Injured On The Go / Just Call Moe (justcallmoe.com): Studio sponsor, also named as a cruise sponsor. Trail of Terror "Sweet 16": At Peghorn Nature Preserve in St. Cloud, six dates only. Tickets are $15 in advance or $20 at the door, via the zombie girl link on TomandDan.com. Supported by Experience Kissimmee and Orlando Health St. Cloud Hospital. Modern Plumbing Industries (modernpi.com): Mention Tom & Dan for 10% off. The read included a listener story about a sewer backup coming up a shower drain. They cover all Central Florida counties, residential and industrial, including cast iron pipe relining. My Eternal Vitality (myeternalvitality.com): A quick drop-in plug during the Method Man TRT joke. Cruise sponsors: justcallmoe.com, Empire Spot Fireworks, Celery City Craft, Villain Coffee / Villain Roasters. Segment Rundown Cold open: cool dude character. The Bart ad read was framed around a revived "cool dude" character that Bart likes. Afterward the hosts argued over how to sign off after a sponsor read. Cruise update: $20 bump. Dan debuted a new "Yachty" sound effect. The first block of balcony cabins sold out, and Tony from Ahoy Cruises got a second block at $20 more, which he was angry about for the listeners' sake. Inside cabins are still at the original price, but another block could cost more. Deposits are fully refundable until a couple of months before sailing. The hosts mocked anyone who cancels. Falcons and Garth tonight. Tom was still wound up after the Falcons game, where a rough first quarter gave way to a strong performance. Moe DeWitt invited the crew, Ross included, to the Garth Brooks show at the Kia Center that night. They joked about how many people dropped out before Tom and Dan got invited, and guessed Buzz Stecker would skip it. Crystal had been playing Garth's greatest hits on Amazon Music (the audio quality got panned), and a host's daughter caught him in "Garth mode." Favorites included "Callin' Baton Rouge" and "Friends in Low Places." Billionaire musicians quiz. A report that Garth considered selling his catalog, valued around $2 billion, led into a guessing game about the six billionaire musicians. The crew landed Jay-Z, Beyonce, Paul McCartney, Taylor Swift, and Rihanna. Rihanna got an asterisk because most of her money comes from her cosmetics line. Ross also floated "A billion is a lot" as a T-shirt. Chris Gaines deep dive. Dan went down the Chris Gaines rabbit hole: Gaines was written as a fictional Australian rock star from Brisbane, with a made-up back catalog. The album was meant to set up a movie called The Lamb, a thriller about a fan trying to prove Gaines was murdered. The character was written as a sex addict, and Garth would have needed an Australian accent. The album sold about 2 million copies and became Garth's only Top 40 pop hit. The SNL episode where Garth hosted and introduced Gaines as the musical guest confused a host's dad. The hosts compared the idea to Borat and to found-footage horror. A host remembered seeing a found-footage film at the Enzian with its UCF filmmakers and believing it was real. Caller Cara: nanny stories. Cara was a nanny for a top makeup artist who worked with Garth, Faith Hill, Reba and others. She said Garth's team went along with the Gaines look because nobody told him no. She lived on the artist's property in her early 20s and fried okra and chicken at Faith Hill's Southern-style baby shower. The artist's husband played in Barbara Mandrell's band. The hosts brought up Tom's childhood nanny again. They also recalled the Gaines album ending up in bargain bins once record stores over-ordered. Garth, music rights, and yes-men. Garth fought used-CD stores in 1995, resisted iTunes, and launched his own download service, GhostTunes, later absorbed into Amazon Music. The hosts roasted his naming choices: GhostTunes, The Lamb, a fake Gaines album called "Fornicopia," and his production company Red Strokes. Tom created the "Castleberry Garth" bit about rich stars who won't take notes from employees. Claims from a 2013 lawsuit by an ex-business partner: Garth supposedly passed on Twister (the Helen Hunt role) and Saving Private Ryan to avoid sharing the spotlight. His Padres spring training stint was for charity (a donation to Boys & Girls Clubs), not a real tryout. Dan admitted arguing with Claude about it before conceding. Pre-internet news coverage made stunts like this confusing. Caller Charles: concert parking. BDM Charles was taking his wife to the Garth show for their 23rd anniversary and asked for parking tips. The hosts first gave joke advice: tip a random guy in a construction vest to valet your car. Then came real tips about the Kia Center lots and a gate most people don't know about. Dan's partner Andrea has a secret back-alley parking route. The crew planned crispy tavern-style pizza downtown and Uber rides home. Ross's Uber nightmare. After Wu-Tang Clan at the MidFlorida amphitheater in Tampa, Ross and his wife could see their Hard Rock hotel balcony but had I-4 in the way. Rideshare signs led them nowhere, and the app's pickup point was a slab of concrete in an empty fairgrounds field. The driver stayed in a different lot and stopped answering, while black SUVs kept offering rides. They ended up walking toward a distant Hampton Inn. Chat and hosts piled on about Uber's decline (rider-rating filtering, cancellations) and a Waymo that got stuck in traffic. Break: ska block. The Family Business Limited's "Still a Jamaican" (new album out today) and the Barstool Preachers' "Want to Know" (pick of the week), followed by the Trail of Terror read. Oviedo e-bike arrest. A News 6 clip covered an 11-year-old in Oviedo who got a written arrest for riding a Sur-Ron-style electric dirt bike near Sweetwater Park. He bought it with $900 from selling squirrel picnic tables. The charges were an unregistered vehicle, no insurance, no motorcycle endorsement, and no eye protection. His father called it an overreach, and the boy will miss school for court. Tom recalled his brother getting a written arrest for riding a dirt bike on the street. Officer interview: e-bike law. A BDM police officer (name unclear in the transcript) called in: The crackdown follows a wave of crashes and kids getting hurt, plus newer statutes that classify e-bikes. With working pedals it's a bicycle. With the pedals removed it's a motor vehicle. Fake pedals may get riders by some officers. Enforcement is at the officer's discretion: a civil infraction with a misdemeanor consequence. Registering a Sur-Ron takes blinkers, lights, and a plate. Dan's old scooter has only an antique tag. Stand-up scooters are speed-regulated, and OneWheels are unregulated. You can get a DUI on anything motorized. Adults can be charged for letting an unlicensed minor drive. Traffic court has a hearing officer, not prosecutors. Seminole County is stricter than Orange. Afterward the hosts wondered how their Miami friend Turkey Leg, who rides one, would react. Wu-Tang concert recap. Ross described the night: Bone Thugs-n-Harmony opened with medleys, including an Eazy-E tribute and a Biggie and Tupac tribute. RZA gave a spoken history of the group, then the set ran through 36 Chambers material and solo spots for Method Man, Ghostface, Raekwon, Cappadonna, and a Mobb Deep member. Method Man showed off his physique and hair, which set up the TRT joke. There was a memorial tribute to late rappers. The reveal: ODB's parts were performed by his son, Young Dirty Bastard. His mother tried to steer him away from music, and RZA didn't cast him in the American Saga series. The hosts traded ODB stories and tried, unsuccessfully, to play a TRL clip. Seacrest and aging. A host's parents cut cable and now use an antenna for NFL games, which means catching Ryan Seacrest on Wheel of Fortune. The crew discussed Seacrest's changed face, weight loss versus cosmetic work, and his frosted tips at his age. Vanna White came up too. Tom said he's getting gray streaks and would dye his hair, which got jokes about jet-black "magician hair." Elizabeth Holmes documentary. Nathan Fielder's secretive Holmes documentary screened at a festival with breathless reviews but no specifics. It's rated R for graphic nudity. The leading theory was that it includes a childbirth video. The crew expected a three-hour absurdist art piece and joked about betting on its reception on Kalshi. They noted a trailer scene where her husband takes the whisk from her while she's making eggs. Ross's theory: the story turns to Holmes cheating on him. That led to a tangent on Italian brainrot videos, Skibidi Toilet being over, "6-7," and how much Fortnite has changed. Break: pop punk block. Rivals' "Adrenaline Rush," the Modern PI read, and Cartel. "Mother of the Year" video. In a viral Giants broadcast clip, a mom juggles a baby, a carrier, and stacks of food and drinks back to her seat while her husband sits idle, and the announcers roast him. Tom defended the dad, saying partners who don't ask for help end up making the other person look bad. The others ribbed him for how he phrased it. Dan described Andrea handing off their daughter at Magic and Orlando City games so she could take a break. Ross offered a gentler defense, citing $25 concert beers and sending his wife to the beer tent. Dan shared Andrea's backhanded compliment that she's glad he drinks less, but "even this one scares me." Dripstick product. Ross got a targeted ad after Monday's cruise talk about tampons. The product is Awkward Essentials' Dripstick, a post-sex sponge applicator. The hosts read the instructions, then argued at length about hygiene and peeing after sex. Dan explained his cleanup routine, and Tom compared it to cleaning a paint sprayer or a beer line. The product's FAQ recommends peeing afterward anyway. The punchline was a "69 for $69" deal, which gave the episode its title, plus a joke return address on the "discreet packaging." Caller Toad King. Last call of the day: a crude one-liner about the post-sex topic, with nothing substantive. Tom's crazy fact: snakebites. The US averages about 5 snakebite deaths a year, and Tom asked the crew to guess India's number. The answer is about 58,000, mostly rural. The crew discussed the colonial snake-bounty story (often called an urban legend), India's "big four" venomous snakes, the Monsters of God documentary, and a story about someone stealing a nearly extinct tortoise breeding population. Plugs and wrap. Ross plugged The Orlando Talk Show and the Moe Comedy Jam. The cruise price increase got a reminder, and they announced Villain Roasters' new location with a possible Tom & Dan chicken-and-waffle item and a meetup. Key Dates / Plugs Mentioned Today (Friday): Garth Brooks at the Kia Center, with the crew attending as Moe DeWitt's guests. The Family Business Limited's new album is out. Next Tuesday: Court date for the Oviedo 11-year-old in the e-bike case. Monday: Next show. October 9 and 10: Trail of Terror, Peghorn Nature Preserve, St. Cloud. The 17th (month not specified): Moe Comedy Jam at the Orlando Funny Bone (formerly the Improv), hosted by Ross McCoy and Larry Helms, with Will Blalock, Amy LaCour, and Sean Fenergate. Tickets at MoeComedyJam.com. Tom, Dan, and Colette will be there. October 16 and 17: Trail of Terror. October 23 and 24: Trail of Terror. These late dates are expected to sell fastest. Tickets are $15 in advance or $20 at the door via TomandDan.com. Soon: Villain Roasters opening in the former Goombay spot in Satellite Beach, with a possible Tom & Dan chicken-and-waffle item and a meetup. Ongoing: Bart Marek Team at barttherealtor.com. Modern PI at modernpi.com (10% off). Just Call Moe at justcallmoe.com. The Orlando Talk Show. Easy Moe with Joe (Moe DeWitt, DeWitt Law Firm, and Joe Byrne, Byrne Pest Control). Up to a couple of months before sailing: Cruise deposits are fully refundable. Thursday, September 23 to Sunday, September 26, 2027: Seaz Nuts 2027 Tom & Dan Cruise on the MSC Seashore. Deposits at tomanddancruise2027.com. Balcony cabins are now in a second block at $20 more. Notable Guests/Callers Ross McCoy: In-studio guest for the full show. He's a comedian and host of The Orlando Talk Show. Bart Marek: Sponsor call-in with the real estate market update. Cara: Caller who was a nanny for a top 90s makeup artist, with stories about Garth's team and Faith Hill's baby shower. BDM Charles: Caller asking for Kia Center parking tips before taking his wife to Garth for their 23rd anniversary. BDM police officer (name unclear in the transcript): Phone guest who explained Florida e-bike, scooter, and OneWheel rules and traffic court. Toad King: Last caller of the day, with a crude one-liner.

For many of us, faith was handed to us as certainty: right beliefs, right answers, and a God who could be clearly defined, defended and explained. But what happens when certainty begins to fall away? In this conversation, Carmen Acevedo Butcher returns to Nomad to explore The Cloud of Unknowing, the anonymous medieval text that insists God “can be loved but not thought.”Together we ask what it might mean to find a firmer foundation in mystery than in control. Carmen reflects on contemplation as a way of knowing love, befriending our restless minds, loosening our grip on language, and learning to live with greater kindness, humility and courage in an anxious age. Along the way, she helps us see that unknowing need not be a failure of faith, but perhaps one of love's deepest invitations.After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim and Anna wonder what it means to stand on the “firm foundation of mystery” rather than certainty, and why that can feel both unsettling and deeply nourishing. They also explore Lectio Divina as a practice of looking again — at scripture, poetry, relationships, politics, and the parts of reality we're tempted to skim past.Interview starts at 14m 40sBooks, quotes, links →The creation of Nomad's thoughtful, ad-free content is entirely funded by our equally thoughtful and wonderful listeners. By supporting us, you gain access to Nomad's online spaces—like the Beloved Listener Lounge, Enneagram Lounge, and Book Club—as well as bonus episodes such as Nomad Contemplations, Homegrown Conversations, and Nomad Revisited.If you'd like to join our lovely community of supporters, head over to our Patreon page. You might even be rewarded with a Nomad pen or our coveted Beloved Listener mug!If a monthly commitment isn't possible right now, a one-off donation is always deeply appreciated—you can do that here.Looking to connect with others nearby? Check out the Listener Map or join our Nomad Gathering Facebook group.And if you're up for sharing your own story, we regularly post reflections from listeners on our blog—all with the hope of fostering deeper understanding, connection and supportive relationships. If you'd like to share your story on the blog, contact us for more information here.

Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jacqui explains that people often confuse understanding someone's perspective with agreeing with them. You can acknowledge and understand how someone feels without sharing their opinion or approving of their behavior. My son died of an overdose almost nine years ago, and I became close to my granddaughter after his death. She's now 19 and shutting me out. What can I do? I'm 67 and have lifelong anxiety, and my daughter in Australia wants me to take a nine-hour drive each way for a boating trip. That is too much for me. Should I set a boundary? How do I get my husband to see that our marriage is in trouble? He spends more than 40 hours a week scrolling on his phone, with no sexual intimacy for three years.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From the earliest days of open-weight models to becoming the neutral routing layer for more than 10 million developers, OpenRouter is one of the clearest bets that the future of AI will be multi-model. In this episode, OpenRouter co-founder & CEO Alex Atallah, with AMP's Anjney Midha returning with swyx to unpack how OpenRouter emerged from the first wave of Llama, Alpaca, Mistral, and Midjourney, why model diversity mattered before it was consensus, and how a company dismissed as “just a wrapper” became critical infrastructure for the AI ecosystem.We go deep on the product and distribution lessons behind OpenRouter: why model labs can spend billions training a checkpoint and still struggle to get it into developers' hands, how Mistral helped prove the value of a competitive inference marketplace, why OpenRouter chose focus over expanding into fine-tuning, memory, and other adjacent products, and how its rankings became a real-time map of how AI usage was changing. Alex also explains OpenRouter's early experiments with model fusion, why they deleted the first version and brought it back years later, and how the platform grew to more than 10 trillion tokens per day.Finally, Anjney explains why Stripe and OpenRouter fit together, why token fraud may become one of the defining security problems of the AI economy, and why the next wave of fraud won't just come from humans but from autonomous agents attacking increasingly valuable token flows.We discuss:* Why OpenRouter bet early that no single AI model would win everything* Alpaca, Llama, and open models becoming impossible to ignore* Why Discord's early AI deployments exposed the limitations of closed models* Why model labs can spend billions on training and still fail at distribution* How OpenRouter became a neutral distribution layer for model developers* Why VCs dismissed OpenRouter as “just a marketplace” or “just a wrapper”* The Mistral price war and the first real proof of an inference marketplace* How Midjourney scaled through Discord and what it taught the AI ecosystem* Why crypto infrastructure became a dress rehearsal for generative AI* OpenRouter vs. LM Arena and why their missions are fundamentally different* Why focus became one of OpenRouter's biggest strategic advantages* Anthropic's early focus on AI pair programming and coding* The OpenRouter products that were prototyped but never launched* MOM, OpenRouter's early Mixture of Models experiment* Why model fusion failed in 2024 — and why it works much better now* How OpenRouter's leaderboard became a live map of the AI industry* OpenClaw, auto-routing, and agents reshaping AI usage* How OpenRouter reached 10+ trillion tokens per day* Why inference gateways are increasingly becoming targets for fraud* Why Stripe's fraud infrastructure is strategically important to OpenRouter* The coming rise of agentic fraud and attacks on the token economy* What changes and what stays the same as OpenRouter joins StripeAlex Atallah* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexatallah/* X: https://x.com/alexatallah* Website: https://alexatallah.comAnjney Midha* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anjney/* X: https://x.com/AnjneyMidha* AMP: https://www.amppublic.com/Timestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:02:12 Alpaca, Llama, and the Multi-Model Bet00:06:04 Discord, Open Models, and OpenRouter's Origins00:14:28 Why “One Model Wins” Was the Wrong Bet00:17:27 Why Model Labs Struggle With Distribution00:23:04 “Just a Wrapper”: Why VCs Misunderstood OpenRouter00:27:58 Bootstrapping OpenRouter Through Community00:36:16 Crypto, Midjourney, and the Early Generative AI Ecosystem00:43:38 Mistral and the Birth of the Inference Marketplace00:47:10 OpenRouter vs. LM Arena00:52:08 Focus, Anthropic, and Roads Not Taken00:59:34 Mixture of Models and Model Fusion01:02:44 Sonnet, OpenClaw, and OpenRouter's Explosive Growth01:09:03 Why Stripe Acquired OpenRouter01:12:45 Fraud and the Emerging Token Economy01:17:47 The Coming Wave of Agentic Fraud01:19:07 What's Next for OpenRouter at StripeTranscriptIntroduction: OpenRouter, Marketplaces, and Pub-Sub as a Product PrincipleSwyx [00:00:00]: Okay, we are here in Anja's house, which is where all big startups in San Francisco start.Anjney Midha [00:00:08]: Howdy.Swyx [00:00:08]: And, congrats on Cursor, Mistral. I don'- God knows what else. You got so much stuff going on.Anjney Midha [00:00:17]: There's, there's a lot going on. Well, OpenRouter is probably the - has been the most, I would say, like, one I'm excited about recently.Swyx [00:00:24]: Yeah. And we have Alex, first time on the pod, but,Anjney Midha [00:00:27]: Thanks for having me.Swyx [00:00:27]: You've been in the IE a few times. I appreciate every time you've shown up, for the community. Congrats. I just, like, what a journey. When I was looking back at your past posts, one of the earliest principles that I saw you write as a product person is sub as a product principle. And I wanted - you to maybe explain how you think about what should exist in the world.Anjney Midha [00:00:49]: Yeah. The sub piece, which was early 2023, I didn't think about it until we talked like 10 minutes ago, is about how there is like a way of thinking about products as an intersection between subscribing to data and publishing data. And marketplaces are an easy example of this. You have suppliers that are publishing some product to a SKU. And the SKU is like a sub topic that a consumer is subscribing to and just going to, like, consume whenever they want. And humans consume in a very, like, discreet, ad hoc way. It's not very scalable. all their attention is on the topic when they're buying the thing, and their attention is nowhere else when that happens. agents and consumers of inference don't act like that. They're consuming continuously, and they're changing the SKUs that they consume from all the time. So OpenRouter is like a blend between a normal API experience and a marketplace where we create model slug. We have the auto router. We have all kinds of, like, product SKUs that you can subscribe to. And then you can, like, continuously add, like, derive value and make decisions based on those consumers.Alpaca, Llama, and the Multi-Model BetSwyx [00:02:11]: Yeah. This is something that was more consensus now, but not consensus when you guys started, which was that there is such a demand for swapping models and changing things out and, that people would not use the native SDKs. I guess, for each of you, what was your realization moment that this would be it? I, - You've, you've given a talk at EIE about Alpaca as,Anjney Midha [00:02:33]: Yeah.Swyx [00:02:33]: One of your inspiring moments.Anjney Midha [00:02:35]: Alpaca, I can, like, rehash the Alpaca moment for a sec. Like, the very beginning, at the end of 2022, OpenAI was the only game in town. There was, like, OpenAI, Cohere,Swyx [00:02:47]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:02:48]: And then a smattering of, like, early attempts at open weight models.Swyx [00:02:54]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:02:54]: When Llama came out in January of 2023, it was like, “Wow, really exciting. This is really big.” It outperforms 3 on, one or two benchmarks. but you can't chat with it. It wasn't like - It wasn't an engaging model, but it seemed like someone just needed to fix a couple things and do some RLHF on it to get it all the way there. And Alpaca was the first model that I saw that did that. It only took $600 to do. A team at Stanford generated a bunch of synthetic data, tuned Llama, and made Alpaca, billion parameter model. Or was - Maybe it was thirteen billion parameters. And it was so good. Like, I was just, like, on an airplane using it. I, - in many cases, I, like, you could not discern a ChatGPT versus an Alpaca result. And I figured if it was this easy to make a model, one, we have a whole new way of monetizing data for the first time. you can just, like, take really valuable data and turn it into a service in $600. and that cost will probably go down over time.Swyx [00:04:03]: When you - So sorry. when you say monetizing your data as, what eventually will become an MCP endpoint or as a training data for a model?Anjney Midha [00:04:12]: Yeah, training data for a model.Swyx [00:04:13]: Awesome.Anjney Midha [00:04:13]: Like, an abstract way of saying like, “Hey, I have this data.”Swyx [00:04:15]: Compress it into a model.Anjney Midha [00:04:16]: Like, it makes sense for me in my product, but, like, I could repackage it in the form of a model and sell it. And so it's just a whole new business model for the economy. It also, of course, provides, like, a way of following what Frontier Labs are doing, but in a way that, like, a single developer or a small team of developers can roll on their own. And so - Whenever you have an example of that, like a breakout app that's doing really well, and then some framework for imitating it with - in your own flavor, you have an immediate ecosystem of, like an immediate ecosystem, like, should arise because there's just a huge gap between the, like, decisions that the single company is making and all of the variations in those decisions that, like, a wider ecosystem can create themselves. And so then, you need a marketplace to, like, discover all of those, services and all of those products. There wasn't any place on the internet that, like, was like a home base for LLMs in terms of seeing how much they were being used and seeing who was using them and why.Swyx [00:05:29]: The closest would be Hugging Face.Anjney Midha [00:05:30]: Hugging Face was the closest at the time, yeah.Swyx [00:05:31]: They just started Hugging, like, a few years ago before that.Anjney Midha [00:05:34]: Yeah, and Hugging Face also didn't have the closed-source models.Swyx [00:05:37]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:05:38]: And they didn'- you couldn't use the models at the time. and there wasn't data about who was using them. There were, like, a bunch of differences between OpenRouter and Hugging Face, and those differences felt really critical to me, especially when I was just trying to learn about LLMs and, like, why people are choosing, like, Different little ones that are emerging over time.Discord, Open Models, and the Origins of OpenRouterSwyx [00:06:03]: Got it. And then, Ansh, no stranger to wanting more model diversity, at the time, you're a couple of years into your Anthropic journey, which we covered in the previous podcast as well. What was your introduction to Alex?Alex Atallah [00:06:16]: Well, the introduction was, I think, thirteen years before that.Swyx [00:06:20]: Oh.Alex Atallah [00:06:20]: But the OpenRouter handshake happened right over there, if you remember.Anjney Midha [00:06:23]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:06:24]: Which - So Alex and I, met, I believe as sophomores now, if I remember at the Stanford Review,Anjney Midha [00:06:32]: That's rightAlex Atallah [00:06:32]: Meeting for the first time.Anjney Midha [00:06:33]: I think so, yeah.Alex Atallah [00:06:35]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:06:35]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:06:35]: So Stanford Review was the libertarian newspaper on campus at Stanford that Peter Thiel started back in the day. And, whatever-- for whatever reason, I, Alex and I both showed up to one of the meetings, and I remember, the editor-chief was a mutual friend of ours. Lisa was really a really great editor-chief, where, part of an editor-chief's job is to assign responsibilities to people and make sure the work gets done. and I, I may be misremembering the details, but I remember wanting to. It was surprising to me that at the time there was no dedicated technology section in the newspaper.Alex Atallah [00:07:11]: YouSwyx [00:07:13]: Because it's political, right?Alex Atallah [00:07:14]: It is primarilySwyx [00:07:14]: Like, it's talkingAlex Atallah [00:07:15]: It originally started as like aAnjney Midha [00:07:16]: Yes.Swyx [00:07:17]: Yeah, states and all those things.Alex Atallah [00:07:17]: Correct.Swyx [00:07:18]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:07:18]: But it, - To take us back in time, you may remember this, but, there was this technology, legislation that was being debated called, the Net Neutrality Act. And net neutrality is, like, inherently this political concept, right? It's, it's about the regulation of - internet broadband access. And so there was a community of us who were technologists, but also debating the politics of the technology. And I thought the Review would be a great place - to, like, write about that. And I was working on, I think, a net neutrality article, and I remember proposing, “Well, maybe we should start a technology section.” And Alex was one of the only people who said, “Yes, that would be cool.” And said. I forget whether we ended up writing stuff together, but - that's when we first met,Alex Atallah [00:08:03]: Was 2011 or twelve. I forget which year it was. It was one of those.Anjney Midha [00:08:09]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:08:09]: It was at Old Union, if I remember correctly.Alex Atallah [00:08:11]: That's where we used to meet. But, along the way, Alex and I have had a chance to, To hang out often. And probably the time when we had the most professional overlap was when I was running the platform at Discord, and it had become this explosive platform for cryptoSwyx [00:08:32]: YeahAlex Atallah [00:08:32]: And NFTs in the middle of the pandemic.Swyx [00:08:35]: Which also, by the way, you were in charge of safety and security as well, right?Alex Atallah [00:08:38]: I was the head of platform, which meant all of the crypto - the DAO and NFT launch security debugging fell onSwyx [00:08:45]: And their phishing and.Alex Atallah [00:08:47]: The phishing, the social engineering attacks, the katana DDoS that we were getting hit by. but it's around the time I first started teaching security at scale at Stanford, CS 153. And Alex was on the, - at OpenSea at the time, and I was trying to figure out how we could defend against all these attacks that we were. Like, and at peak, I forget, if you remember how much NFT volume was running throughSwyx [00:09:10]: DiscordAlex Atallah [00:09:10]: Discord, but it was, like, a meaningful amount of, like, it was, like, several billion dollars in NFT volume of GMV, so to speak, were running through the platform, and it was all coming from OpenSea. It was these, like, buy, sell,Swyx [00:09:20]: TheAlex Atallah [00:09:21]: ServersSwyx [00:09:21]: The D in DAO is Discord.Alex Atallah [00:09:25]: Yes. And so that's when I think we had hung out professionally. But a year after that, OpenAI gave Discord early access to GPT. Sorry, three. No, it was five. Yeah, five, which is the RL version of three. And that's around the time we made a Discord bot with, OpenAI for internal deployment, and that's when I realized we would need. Like, since I was part of the deployment team.Anjney Midha [00:09:50]: What was the use case?Alex Atallah [00:09:51]: There were two that were. And there's, there's a post now called “Discord is Your Place for AI with Friends” that somebody sent me recently that I wrote, and published in twenty-three. But There were two use cases. One was Clyde, which was the - like, a party friend inside of Discord that could help you set up your Discord server and talk to you about onboarding and get your friends to hang out more. and then there was content moderation. And one of the realizations we had with content moderation was - it would refuse to moderate. Like, it would just refuse our prompts because the The training was. We were very early in the training era, and it would just. Our prompts would trigger it, its, like, guardrails. And we told OpenAI, “Hey, guys, we need access to the weights because if we're gonna be doing content moderation at scale, we had 250 million monthly active users, we need more reliability that the model will do what we need it to.” And they said, “Well, sorry, guys, that's not how this works. We're a closed-source company.” And so that was my first realization that we needed open models, and the enterprises would need more control over capabilities, and then ultimately would need some control plane or management system to orchestrate these open models. But there weren't no good - there were no good open alternatives until maybeAlex Atallah [00:11:10]: Six months later when Llama came out. And six months after that, I led the series A into Mistral, which was started by Guillaume and the Llama team. And - That, - Around that time is when I remember hearing about Alex launching OpenRouter and going, “These worlds are gonna collide, and I don't know when it'll make sense to team up.” But Alex was so early and could see. I think he was totally right about this ecosystem starting with Llama that then needed, like, a, an easy layer to manage for, especially for. I was approaching it from the enterprise perspective because I had been that, like, the. As the VP of platform at Discord, it was my job to ensure that when we deployed models to, like, 250 million users, they did what we wanted them to. And that was very hard, because if you outsourced it to the labs and they controlled the guardrails and their guardrails are their safety policies. Forbid the model from responding to your prompts. That was quite catastrophic.Swyx [00:12:05]: Yeah. But what, a moderation is the thing that they want to support. And obviously, beyond that, they would - OpenAI would work with you, presumably to give you a moderation endpoint, which they offer for free.Alex Atallah [00:12:16]: It was an interesting use case, that - So they did give us a moderation endpoint. However, as you guys know, every Discord server is like a mini deployment of itself. And so the use case was instead of having human moderators that have to interpret the norms of the community, you just give the, - Often, like every, subreddit, Discord servers, public ones have their own rules that the user, the users create.Swyx [00:12:41]: Oh, yeah. We run the LinkedIn Discord in. Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:12:43]: And then humans used to read those norms and then enforce it every day manually, like observing each message in these communities. And these communities have like millions of users. So we had a 5,000+ person team globally in the, on the Discord content moderation team. These are outsourced contractors who had a really tough job. And so the idea was instead, if you could give the norms of that server To the LLM, then the LLM would do custom moderation for that server. It's almost like a, like context moderation for that server. And many of those servers' norms just violated OpenAI's rules. And so - It was like we had our own custom eval. So each server had its own custom eval. But Discord-- at the time, OpenAI's evals, we were all soAlex Atallah [00:13:28]: Primitive in our thinking about how to deploy these LLMs that often the training prompts were super handed. It said, “Oh, anything about Harry Potter, anything that has trademarked content, don'- refuse.” And if it was a fan - Harry Potter fan community, this is a real use case, that had content moderation, the LLM would just refuse.Swyx [00:13:48]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:13:49]: And that was just not precise enough.Anjney Midha [00:13:52]: Another one that we heard was like if someone was trying to write like a detective story, and there's one chapter with a lot of violence, like maybe someoneAlex Atallah [00:14:01]: RightAnjney Midha [00:14:01]: Like kills someone, the LLMs would just refuse to, like, help with that part of the story.Alex Atallah [00:14:07]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:14:07]: And then - like, we used to be like, okay, this is not like structurally inherent to LLMs. There must be, like, some choice out there so that I can, like, switch to another model, when I'm getting, like, a refusal or a bad result from the main one that I have. And that, like, tension also drove me for a marketplace.Why “One Model Wins” Was the Wrong BetSwyx [00:14:28]: Yeah. I think that is well accepted now. What was it like back then when you were raising or, starting this? did people get it? what was the, some of the struggles? I like getting stories out of him about how other VCs don't get it. So like anything you wanna, talk about, now - Let's, let's call it, that the early journey of OpenRouter is done, right? You can obviously talk about some of the early days stuff.Anjney Midha [00:14:54]: Well, I was gonna say that, like, the biggest objection we got is big model win, which is - all of theSwyx [00:15:03]: Scaling laws.Anjney Midha [00:15:04]: Huh?Swyx [00:15:04]: Scaling laws.Anjney Midha [00:15:05]: Yeah, scaling laws, and natural network effects are just gonna accrue to one company, which will be - It'll be a Google-style monopoly, just like how Google won the search market, by a large margin, and you'll just be fighting for scraps at the end. That was probably the biggest objection we got. it is interesting that Google won the search engine race with such a huge margin. I think, like, had there been more interesting benchmarks or had, like, search engines been, - had people, like, seen them a little bit more like LLMs where they're services that you can build companies on top of, that might not have been the case. but LLMs don't merely have a user interface. They're also, like, ways of building entirely new businesses. And, a Google-level monopoly would be like the Dutch East India Company times, quadrillion in magnitude because the whole economy ends up, like, depending on the one monopoly as well. So it didn't seem like would be a really crazy outcome if that happened. And it's also less likely because the economics of, like, creating good competitors are much, like, much more decentralizable.Alex Atallah [00:16:25]: Everything Alex said is true, And I came at it from a completely different perspective, whichSwyx [00:16:31]: Yes, this is why we're here.Alex Atallah [00:16:32]: The scaling laws were never - In my mind, were always a feature, not a bug for why OpenRouter would be very valuable. Because, I was one of the first investors in Anthropic, and it was obvious to me that other researchers in our friends - I went to grad school for machine learning, and I just had a lot of friends in the ML community who it was very obvious to us that the bitter lesson holds. And so I was like, “Oh, fantastic. Now we have at least two proof points that compute scaling works.” It was OpenAI and Anthropic. and by the time I think we decided to team up on OpenRouter, I had already invested in Mistral and Black Forest Labs and Luma. So there was multiple model companies and teams that I was, working with.Why Model Labs Struggle With DistributionSwyx [00:17:14]: But you did other modalities, whereas this is literallyAlex Atallah [00:17:16]: Across different modalities, yesSwyx [00:17:17]: Text.Alex Atallah [00:17:18]: Exactly. And it was so obvious to me that an ecosystem of different kinds of models were being created, and that this whole narrative of, like, Only one company will dominate like Google was, well, like maybe true, but one, I don't believe that. But two, there was so much extraordinary innovation happening across several different research teams. But the shared problem I was noticing across all of them was often, the research teams were fantastic at figuring out how to reason about new capabilities. They think in terms of capabilities, but never - like, are not developer mindset-oriented. Like, what happens after the training is done and the checkpoint comes out? Like, you'd be shocked how, like, similar the early training teams at OpenAI, sorry, Anthropic, BFL, Mistral, were in their, like, default approach to. Taking their research out of the, lab and scaling their impact, which is often, oh, the checkpoint is done, put it out as an API, done, and then there'd be crickets. in the case of Claude, the first Claude checkpoint was done a year before they released it internally. And then ChatGPT came out, and we decided, okay, yes, it's a good idea to release a Claude version externally.Alex Atallah [00:18:34]: And they had no plan, like no plan for how to get developers to try it out. And so if you go to the Claude one blog post, you'll notice there are, like, three developer examples for users of the API, and one is a Discord bot, and the second is Vivian, my wife's startup called Juny Learning, ‘- And then there was, like, Notion, because these were all friends of, like, the Anthropic Because that's how - like, last minute the planning was around, hey, once the model's done training, how do you get it out to the world? There was no distribution platform that understood what developers needed, all the key management, provisioning, like, simple, like, endpoint management, versioning control. Like, all these things that the scientists and researchers go, “ that's plumbing. I don't really think about it.”Swyx [00:19:15]: Implementation detail.Alex Atallah [00:19:16]: Right. And instead, Alex came at it from that perspective. And so, it was so obvious to me that, like, every single lab I was funding would spend - like, literally sometimes billions of dollars into training, and then a checkpoint would be done, and there'd be crickets, like, during early access because they're like, “Oh, that's right.”Alex Atallah [00:19:35]: It's hard to use a checkpoint to make anything. You need a whole bunch of plumbing around it to make it usable by a developer. And so by the - I think - it was so obvious to me that a distribution platform like OpenRouter was critical to have in the ecosystem if we wanted there to be competition to Google. Like, unless-- ‘cause with Google, DeepMind is done training a new checkpoint, and then they push a button, and it gets blasted out across all their surfaces from Google Docs to,Swyx [00:20:01]: Everywhere, even if I don't want it.Alex Atallah [00:20:02]: Everywhere. You wanna know about, like, on Android, like, overnight, they can deploy a new checkpoint to, like, a billion devices, right? And that invisible infra advantage, distribution advantage, most people don't realize, but until OpenRouter showed up, - you had to think about all of that yourself as a model lab. And it was very daunting. at Anthropic, I think it took, well, more than twelve months to get to our first 10 million in revenue. And in contrast with Black Forest Labs, I remember the early days, you guys had a conversation with the BFL team, and, it was so simple for OpenRouter to say, “Oh, no problem. Like, the day you launch, we can send 1 million developers to you.” that was crazy. That was like a step function change in, like, an hour.Swyx [00:20:46]: Is that a real number, a million?Alex Atallah [00:20:47]: I,Swyx [00:20:48]: Okay. All right.Alex Atallah [00:20:48]: I think today it's, like, 4 million. How many developers are on OpenRouter today?Anjney Midha [00:20:52]: Over ten,Alex Atallah [00:20:54]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:20:54]: Over 10 million, but, like, it's, it's hard to, youAlex Atallah [00:20:59]: I, yeah, I don't know how to. Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:21:00]: We do a lot of, like, account duping work, but, noAlex Atallah [00:21:04]: If you could get 1,000 developers, just to put in context If you get 1,000 developers who try the model on day one after you release it and just, like, do inference and give you feedback, that's a thousandAnjney Midha [00:21:15]: That's hugeAlex Atallah [00:21:16]: More developers than they knew how to get to on their own.Swyx [00:21:19]: Well, BFL had a reputation, but yes.Alex Atallah [00:21:21]: They had one in Stable Diffusion.Swyx [00:21:22]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:21:23]: And with Mistral, I don't know if you guys remember, but the first checkpoint they released was, like, torrents. It was, like, torrent weights.Swyx [00:21:31]: Yeah, they just put up a magnet link.Alex Atallah [00:21:33]: Yeah, there was no API.Anjney Midha [00:21:34]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:21:34]: Because they didn'- they weren't infra people.Alex Atallah [00:21:37]: ? Like, it's like, okay, download these weights, and you guys go figure out how to host it.Swyx [00:21:39]: Well, he has a story on his side, yeah.Anjney Midha [00:21:41]: Yeah, in addition to the, like, building a really good developer experience around it, the marketing that we do on, like, for different models is totally different and perceived totally differentlyAlex Atallah [00:21:54]: RightAnjney Midha [00:21:54]: From the marketing that a model lab does for itself.Alex Atallah [00:21:56]: Yes, 1,000%.Anjney Midha [00:21:57]: Right? We are like a, neutral layer looking at this market like it's a big dark room with all the corners completely obscure to users, and users are walking into the room and, like, feeling aroundAlex Atallah [00:22:09]: YeahAnjney Midha [00:22:09]: And trying to figure out what objects to grab off the tables and, like, build into, their companies. And it's just an insane way of working. Like, models are not products where you can just enumerate all their features onto a web page. They're all black boxes, including the open weight ones. So you need to, like, shine lights on all corners of this room, so that people can see what makes this model good, and you need the company shining that light to be a neutral third party, which is what we specialize in. So the, like. It'- In addition to developer experience, there's also, like, a very important, like, marketing and product packaging componentAlex Atallah [00:22:50]: YeahAnjney Midha [00:22:50]: And a way of, like, routing and discovering models becomes, like, critical to your market as a provider or a model lab or a server tool and more in the future.“Just a Wrapper”: Why VCs Misunderstood OpenRouterAlex Atallah [00:23:03]: And this value, to your earlier point about how many VCs, like, just don't. One of my biggest frustrations is that venture capitalists, many of them, like, just don't have any operating experience in the field. so unlike a traditional investor who's just maybe come up through the ranks as, like, a associate working on financial modeling or maybe hasn't been a real operator in the field for, like, more than ten years, which is a big part of the industry now, I had just arrived at a16z, like, a year after running the platform. And so I knew what the challenges were of, like, building a real - great developer experience and like, being able to create a working piece of software with a model. And there were a few, I won't name names, but there were investors who were looking at OpenRouter, and, felt at the time, like, when I would compare notes with people, that it was just, I quote unquote, “just a marketplace.”Swyx [00:23:59]: Yeah, just a thin layer, just aAlex Atallah [00:24:00]: CorrectSwyx [00:24:00]: JustAlex Atallah [00:24:01]: A wrapper or whatever on other people's APIs. And I was like, “You have no idea how strategic the value that OpenRouter has created by being able to orchestrate even three.” APIs in production. The amount of both engineering work and community design that goes into getting that live and running in production at the scale the OpenRouter team had started just doesn't happen by default. And that was one of the things that stood out to me about Alex from the earliest days. Like, he just understood, like, - from a systems perspective, like, how do you get these flywheels going? Like, that stood out to me with OpenSea when we were working together on the NFT integration at Discord. Like, Alex had a level of community-- like, systems thinking on how you get these flywheels going that most scientists and machine learning people just don'tAlex Atallah [00:24:48]: Think of. Like, we often think in terms of training.Swyx [00:24:52]: It's a linear stage.Alex Atallah [00:24:53]: It's this linear pipeline.Swyx [00:24:53]: There's no loop yet.Alex Atallah [00:24:54]: Yeah. It wasn't until much later that the modern context feedback loop cycle really got standardized in the industry. But at the time, if you remember, machine learning was like. Like, mostly we did a lot of ML, like, when I was in grad school on a laptop. So you just, like, download a dataset, ran some ablations, and you looked at the loss curves, and you're like, “Great, I made AI.” And the idea that you have to, like, deploy those capabilities, collect feedback trajectories, then, like, put those into a continuous loop, like, came much later. And it was very counterintuitive to the - like, the traditional AI mindset. I do remember doing the investment phase for, OpenRouter, I just didn't try and educate a bunch of other VCs on why it was not just a marketplace. I was like, “ what? I'm just gonna invest.”Anjney Midha [00:25:41]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:25:41]: And I'm going to, like, take the opportunity to partner with Alex, and if - no other VCs get it, that's totally fine. ‘Cause at the time, - it was not obvious, I think, to several of the investors that, like, OpenRouter was not more than just a wrapper around APIs. And - that infuriated me. And I was like, “ what? I don't have time to debate you. I'm - we're gonna, we're gonna invest.” And then I think, like, a month later, Matt Murphy marked it up by 10x. Like, - I think. I forget what the exact money was and so on, but, to his credit, Menlo Ventures realized, “Okay, there's much more strategic value here as well.” Maybe you didn't hear all these conversations behind the scenes But that frustrated me a lot. there's a lot of this, like, opining about wrappers. and if you're like, “Oh, an app is just a wrapper on a model,” then, like. And, OpenRouter is, like, this wrapper on top of other APIs, and this is the most stupid, reductive framework.Alex Atallah [00:26:31]: And so it's clearly somebody who has no experience deploying product at scale.Swyx [00:26:34]: It's the thing you dismiss other things with. Like, you're a - everyone's a wrapper on everything, right? Like, and there's, there's some Some wrappers have value.Alex Atallah [00:26:40]: Investors are wrappers and LPs, right?Alex Atallah [00:26:42]: Like venture capitalists. So, yeah, it's all wrappers down, all down to bare metal, I guess, and like energy.Swyx [00:26:46]: Yeah, there - When I started the whole AI engineer, I guess, the coining, in 2023, like, that was, like, the number one pushback is that this is no value. You should just train models.Anjney Midha [00:26:56]: Right.Swyx [00:26:57]: And, yeah, obviously this is, like. you guys are one of the testaments to the fact that you can build very valuable wrappers, but also very valuable model companies.Alex Atallah [00:27:06]: It's so, hard to be. Like, the day a model launches, the fact that you have an OpenRouter, endpoint for that model frequently at the top of Hacker News on day one, people don't realize the amount of work that goes into accomplishing that. And OpenRouter used. Like, that would happen over and over again, and I remember going, “People have no idea how hard that is.”Alex Atallah [00:27:30]: That's not.Swyx [00:27:31]: Yeah, we've covered some of the inference engineering that goes behind,Alex Atallah [00:27:34]: YesSwyx [00:27:34]: Some of - with Base Ten and all those. Well, today you have, all those, like, cool code name things that people guess what Oxy Alpha is and all those things. But, like, I guess one of the things that you're teasing is, how do you get that initial flywheel going, right? Because today you have your scale and your reputation, all these things, so obviously you - you're driving immense distribution. But when you were early on, when it's mostlyBootstrapping OpenRouter Through CommunityAlex Atallah [00:27:55]: The bootstrap, yeah.Swyx [00:27:56]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:27:56]: What was the bootstrap like?Anjney Midha [00:27:58]: To bring it back to early Discord days, I think we, like, initially connected with. This is an OpenSea story, technically. But, and we initially connected when you were at Discord, and we talked about, like, - the Axie Infinity server.Alex Atallah [00:28:13]: Oh, yes. Yes.Anjney Midha [00:28:14]: This server was, like, the biggest server at theAlex Atallah [00:28:17]: YeahAnjney Midha [00:28:17]: At Discord.Alex Atallah [00:28:18]: That's right.Anjney Midha [00:28:19]: And you were like, constantly bumping up theAlex Atallah [00:28:22]: The limits on the server. Oh, my GodAnjney Midha [00:28:24]: Of how many people could be in the server.Swyx [00:28:24]: For those who don't know, like, 10% of Philippines was Axie.Alex Atallah [00:28:29]: Was on that server. That's a big hit.Swyx [00:28:31]: It was, like, a meaningful contributor to the GDP of the country.Alex Atallah [00:28:33]: It was an NFT, like, crypto game, but itSwyx [00:28:35]: It was like a Pokémon breeding thing.Anjney Midha [00:28:36]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:28:36]: Yeah. Similar. Yeah. There was battling, there was breeding, and then there was, like, a marketplace for trading.Swyx [00:28:43]: Earn as well.Alex Atallah [00:28:45]: Yeah, earn. And, like, the graphics were really cute and fun, and you like, you get emotional about your Axie that you make. So to, like, start a community like that, which we had to do many times at OpenSea with every early project, for us to create a marketplace for it, we need to make sure that the, like, the community wants it.Anjney Midha [00:29:09]: Right.Alex Atallah [00:29:09]: And it's like building something that people want and going and telling them about it. Like, you can do that on a one basis, but there's way higher leverage to do that in a community where everyone can talk to you at the same time. So we spent a lot of time, like, building things that the community really wanted. We did the same thing for OpenRouter. And, like, the Axie community was one of, like, a zillion communities we did that with. And Anj, like, saw us doing it and. ‘Cause you could just see people sharing OpenSea links constantly in that Discord. Like, users sharing links is a really clear indicator that, like, something important is going on. So we spent, a lot of time, like, first figuring out what the gap is in the technology that people care about. Like, what was the actual problem that needs to be solved? in early LLM days, it was, OpenAI refusing to finish the prompt or,Anjney Midha [00:30:09]: YeahAlex Atallah [00:30:10]: To, like, complete the task. It was also.Anjney Midha [00:30:13]: Inability to customize models. and so there are communities that, like are just completely blocked on that issue, and those are the communities that are most useful to learn about and dive into and explore.Alex Atallah [00:30:28]: Something that really struck me at that time, - as I was just hearing your talk, I remember noting - you may not remember this, but we - we had these, like working, Zoom calls that we were doing a sprint around for, like this OpenSea integration with Discord. and, we'd, we'd - it was myself, my engineering team. I think you were there. And I remember, Alex, in the middle of one of those calls, just like there was like silence. we were all like, “Oh, yeah, this totally makes sense. Let's do this.” And then there's - every, like everybody aligned. And Alex was like, “No, this makes no sense to me.” And everyone's - I remember going, “What? Like, it works. Like, you click on a link and this, then it bounces you out to, like, OpenSea.” And he was like, “It's not a good user experience. Yeah, we should not do this.” And I remember going, he was the only one person out of all of us to raise his hand and go, yes, it made sense from a technical implementation perspective. Like, we were bouncing the user out into the, into OpenSea. And so it kinda checked the box of the product manager's requirements on both sides. But Alex went one step further and was like, “ what would be better, guys? If we just embedded the experience right here inside of Discord so the link opened up as an embedded iframe, and you can just check out right there.”Alex Atallah [00:31:47]: And not one person on the call, and there's like seven of us who had met, like, week after week.Swyx [00:31:52]: And it's the guy who doesn't work for Discord.Alex Atallah [00:31:53]: And it's the guy who doesn't work for Discord.Swyx [00:31:55]: Like, technically, you benefit if they bounce.Alex Atallah [00:31:57]: Exactly. And that was, like, adversarial. To keep the user inside of Discord would be adversarial to OpenSea. And yet Alex put that user experience first. And I was like, “That's special.”Swyx [00:32:08]: Wow.Alex Atallah [00:32:08]: Because it's very hard to have somebody who's technical like Alex and understands the developer flow, but also understands the best user experience and wants to prioritize that. And that's two sides of the flywheel that if you can get spinning, like is often hard to stop. And you just reminded me, like that one was one of those moments where I go, I - I realized I gotta be better at user experience because I should have been the one who came up with that, and I didn't. And I learned from you. And, I think that went into one of our case studies for the PM training program at Discord.Swyx [00:32:34]: Whoa.Alex Atallah [00:32:36]: I don't know if it there is Because ofSwyx [00:32:38]: You need an Alex is the conclusion.Alex Atallah [00:32:40]: Yeah. You need an Alex. And this is why I'm not, nobody should be surprised why Stripe decided like they had to buy OpenRouter because it's a really rare combination of people who understand the machine learning community, the developer experience, and the user experience. And putting all that together has resulted in this extraordinary scale that very few other marketplaces have been able to achieveWindow AI, BYOM, and Finding the Right Form FactorSwyx [00:33:02]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:33:02]: Over the last, five years.Swyx [00:33:04]: Yeah. Well, we should talk about the other reasons for acquisitions, whichAlex Atallah [00:33:07]: Yes, we should.Swyx [00:33:07]: You've written about. I wanna proceed somewhat chronologically as well. So - there is a point that, one of the questions that, Dave from H of Zero sent in was, when did it - really started to work? And you brought up Mixtral. I don't know if you wanna bring up that story.Alex Atallah [00:33:22]: Oh, yeah.Swyx [00:33:23]: Which obviously you overlap with, so.Anjney Midha [00:33:26]: Yeah, the MoE was. I don't know when. there's no like one moment where I was like, “Oh, this is, officially starting to work.” It wasSwyx [00:33:36]: The moment where you had a Chrome extension, like, really super early on.Anjney Midha [00:33:39]: Oh, yeah. But, well, - yeah. So before OpenRouter, I wanted to, like, explore a bring-your-own-model experiment. And,Swyx [00:33:47]: Which anyone familiar with crypto is like, yeah, Phantom and all these things.Anjney Midha [00:33:50]: Yeah. So it felt like doing a MetaMask analogy for AI would be a fun way of exploring that. And at the time, there were no AI apps. There were probably as many AI apps that were, like, hitting AI - like, hitting an LLM via an API call as there were, like, games just doing it in JavaScript. like there was a, there was a moment in time where it could have been the case that web apps call LLMs through the browser, like through some desktopAlex Atallah [00:34:27]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:34:27]: Managed app that is controlled by the user. and of course, there are like, I think, many reasons that did not happen. But back when the days were that primordial, I built a Chrome extension called Window AISwyx [00:34:43]: With Plasmo.Anjney Midha [00:34:44]: With Plasmo.Swyx [00:34:45]: I had come across early on, and I was like, “Who's gonna use this?” You did.Anjney Midha [00:34:49]: Plasmo had a couple, like, I think Phantom was using it. there were some other, like real companies using it.Alex Atallah [00:34:56]: It was like a shim.Swyx [00:34:57]: React for Chrome extension. It compiles to allAnjney Midha [00:35:00]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:35:00]: I see.Anjney Midha [00:35:00]: Like Next.js for Chrome extensions.Swyx [00:35:01]: Next.js, Next.js.Alex Atallah [00:35:02]: Okay.Anjney Midha [00:35:03]: And yeah, built Window AI on top of it. The creator of Plasmo, like started contributing code to Window AI, in GitHub, and that turned out to be Louis VicchiAlex Atallah [00:35:15]: Oh, you'Anjney Midha [00:35:15]: Who is the founder of OpenRouter.Alex Atallah [00:35:17]: That's right. You have told me this is how you met Louis. Yes.Anjney Midha [00:35:19]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:35:19]: Okay.Anjney Midha [00:35:20]: So, that allowed users to like configure which model they wanted to use for a web page in their browser, and then, like the app would just call out to that model when it needed to do things. not the right form factor for LLMs, but, it's like fun experiment. You learn a lot, and like I open sourced it. And the main learning is like, okay, this has to be an API, and it has to look a little bit - like, there has to be more of a developer experience here and more of a discovery experience as well. Like, I don't know where to use these models, and a little Chrome extension is not gonna help me discover. It's not enough real estate. I need more space. I need visuals. I need graphs. I need, examples. I need images. I need to, like, I need to be able to, like explore both as a human and as an agent.Crypto, Midjourney, and the Early Generative AI EcosystemAlex Atallah [00:36:10]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:36:10]: So that's how OpenRouter came to be.Alex Atallah [00:36:13]: A meta point that.Alex Atallah [00:36:16]: I think is underappreciated, but Alex is reminding me, is that we were quite lucky that we were so. we were, like, adjacent to the crypto community in those days. Because in hindsight, crypto ended up being like a dress rehearsal for generative models, right? If you think about the Axie experience, Alex is totally right, there were not that many AI apps at the time. And while I was dealing-- my job was to be the head of platform at Discord, which meant to be a general purpose place for communities and friends to create-- for developers to create apps and bots and, other services that could be deployed across Discord. And while 80% of the attention at the time was being spent on crypto, because that's where all the NFT volume was, there was, like, twenty percent of my time I was spending with a friend, who would get hotbot with me and ask me for. We would play Magic: The Gathering on weekends, and he was working on a little Discord bot that could take a text input and turn it into an image, and it was called Midjourney. YouSwyx [00:37:15]: Is that David?Alex Atallah [00:37:15]: It was David Holz.Alex Atallah [00:37:16]: He was a good friend. And David and I have both been failed ARVR founders, in the before that. And, I remember this. Midjourney was one of the fastest-growing communities we had after Axie Infinity started to peter off. And many of the, like, the abstractions and the infrastructure decisions we made to scale Axie happened just in time because they. Axie did this and then fell off a cliff. And then as Midjourney was taking off, we, like, explicitly decided to help David make the server, the Midjourney server, as the primary place for interaction with the model, because it was very hard for people to understand how to use the model if they couldn't see other people using it and copy them. And so the single-player Midjourney web app on its own, like midjourney.com, had, like, terrible retention because people would show up, they'd see this empty field. It's like E 2, and they would type in, like, cat or dog. And it was, like, paralyzing for them to have this blank canvas that they had to fill because they'd never used an AI model before. But instead, in a Discord server, you could see other people using it and riff off of their prompt, and the engagement was off the charts. And so scaling, Midjourney from zero to, like, 10 million monthly actives was a much smoother approach Axie Infinity. And so,Swyx [00:38:29]: Don't forget the best of four pictures, and you choose one.Alex Atallah [00:38:31]: The best, yeah, and then the other, weSwyx [00:38:32]: Which is the feedback loop.Alex Atallah [00:38:33]: The RLHF feedback loop, which, by the way, separately, like, Tom Brown, David and I used to play Magic: The Gathering on weekends. And so, like, it was one group of friends would hang out, and we'd. Like, these concepts were all being discussed all the time. But, there was.Alex Atallah [00:38:47]: I think there were few of us who bridged both the crypto worlds and the AI worlds. And compared to crypto, where it was - the question was always, what's the use case, for this technology? There was never any need to ask that for AI because it's, like, the use case was so visceral. It was like, I can create now anything at - I can imagine. I can write novels, I can code. And the infrastructure that those of us who believed in the distributed systems, like, value of crypto, like the censorship resistance part, found this use case that was explosive. And I think between Midjourney, the, Claude was a Discord bot launch, that we were using internally as an LLM. ElevenLabs had a TTS model that we had on Discord as well. Like, Discord became this petri dish for, like, early apps to innovate. And I don't think it's a coincidence that they found a home there before OpenRouter gave the world, like, a public home store or, like, a, storefront. Discord was this, like, almost petri dish storefront that - had, like, piggybacked on the infra we'd built for crypto communities. And then I think Alex was one of the first people to realize, wait a minute, like, these apps need their own home, on the internet. And then OpenRouter, to me, was a continuation of that community's needs. And of course, there was the crazy distribution that you enabled for a lot of these developers.Why OpenRouter Couldn't Just Live Inside DiscordSwyx [00:40:07]: So then my question is, how come you were. My perception is OpenRouter is not that Discord-centric, right? You have a Discord.Anjney Midha [00:40:14]: Yeah.Swyx [00:40:14]: And you use it to engage your community, but it's not like Midjourney where, like, no, that is like the primary way people experience OpenRouter.Anjney Midha [00:40:21]: Yeah, Midjourney, like, it really helps to see visually really quickly how people are using the model and how to prompt it.Swyx [00:40:29]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:40:29]: And I think that is partly why the server was so critical. It's like it is the user experience. It adds a ton.Swyx [00:40:36]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:40:37]: And you can go the whole mile with just, like, prompting via Midjourney, like, the, via the Midjourney Discord server, getting your images and then sharing them and having fun. For OpenRouter, for LLMs, like, you need a lot of user experience around LLMs to make them, like, really usable.Swyx [00:40:54]: Charge point.Anjney Midha [00:40:55]: And yeah.Anjney Midha [00:40:57]: The, like, seeing the examples of other people is also not as useful because it's a lot of stuff to read. It takes a long time.Swyx [00:41:03]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:41:04]: You need, like, based integration. Not possible to do in a Discord server. You need, Or technic- it's possible. I shouldn't say that. It's just not a great developer experience. you need, like, - you need governance for. At the point where you got based integration, now you need governance for managing the LLMs that have access to it, the data policies, which teams. All that stuff needs a lot more than a Discord server can provide. So it's justSwyx [00:41:30]: YeahAnjney Midha [00:41:30]: It's not the right.Alex Atallah [00:41:32]: Well, in addition, you're not wrong, but also there's the very important distinction that, Midjourney was an end user application.Swyx [00:41:40]: Right.Alex Atallah [00:41:40]: And, that's why Discord, which has 250 million monthly end consumers, made, it made sense for Discord to be a host for that application experience. What I knew was gonna happen soon after Midjourney found explosive product-market fit, because we. I think when Midjourney launched, from launch to $100 million revenue run rate, it was less than eight months. And shortly thereafter, Stable Diffusion launched. And, all of us used to hang out in the Discord server. There, I think it was the,Swyx [00:42:13]: The Stability Discord?Alex Atallah [00:42:14]: It was theSwyx [00:42:16]: Yeah, LAION.Alex Atallah [00:42:16]: Yeah, the LAION Discord server.Swyx [00:42:17]: The image community that spawned Stable Diffusion.Alex Atallah [00:42:19]: The image community. Yeah. And so when Stable Diffusion came out, I realized- Oh, now other people can build their own Midjourney.Alex Atallah [00:42:27]: Because until then, Midjourney did not have an API, so they were a stack company, right? They were training their own models, and they were deploying them as an application. But if you wanted to build your own Midjourney, there was no API of that quality. and I think E two was still quite primitive. Like, Midjourney had great quality. And then when Stable Diffusion came out, suddenly there was this new person who - there was - this new capability in the world, which is a developer could create their own Midjourney. And that, I think, created the need for something like OpenRouter, because then you need an API to. If you - if you had the creativity of David Holz and you had Stable Diffusion as the model and you wanted to put these things together, how could you do that without having to figure out how to host the weights? And what OpenRouter, - the shape of OpenRouter enabled is that. Right? When you have open model alternatives to closed applications, OpenRouter's value in the world becomes extraordinary because now any developer can just show up and use theStable Diffusion and the Need for a Model API LayerSwyx [00:43:20]: You just love model diversity.Anjney Midha [00:43:21]: Did you just say the shape of OpenRouter?Alex Atallah [00:43:23]: Oh, no.Anjney Midha [00:43:25]: Were you in cloud? What is this the real Han?Alex Atallah [00:43:26]: I've been, I've been - I'm, I'm misaligned now. I've been overtrained. I've been using Cloud way too much, haven't I?Swyx [00:43:34]: Claude-ish is what people would say.Alex Atallah [00:43:35]: Claude-ish. Oh, God, I gotta untrain myself.Swyx [00:43:38]: Okay. - And I just wanna cap off the Mistral side. my TLDR is there was a Mistral price war, is what they called it, right? Like, round about NeurIPS is twenty-three or twenty-four.Mistral and the Birth of the Inference MarketplaceAnjney Midha [00:43:47]: Yes. DecemberSwyx [00:43:48]: They launched, the Mistral 8x7B, and like the price went down like 80%.Anjney Midha [00:43:54]: Yeah.Swyx [00:43:54]: To me, that's very positive because it's like the first, like, real competition to host Mistral. Is there more?Anjney Midha [00:44:01]: Yeah, that was. I'm, like, trying to remember it, all the things that happened. It. Like, we saw that model come out and immediately saw people say that it was the best model in the world.Alex Atallah [00:44:15]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:44:15]: Like, this was, to my knowledge, the first time an open weights model was called that in real seriousness.Swyx [00:44:22]: It's hype, right? Is it?Anjney Midha [00:44:25]: It was hype. It was hype. It was also, like, hype from AI influencers at the time. And there were many examples where it was, like, outperforming four. So people really wanted to try it out and see, is this gonna be true for me too? And if so, at what price? And, the, like, inference landscape was really messy.Alex Atallah [00:44:49]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:44:50]: We cleaned it up. - it allowed, like, providers to compete on price, so we could give you just the best price in one spot. And so it was, I think, the first clear example of, like, a provider marketplace working in a way that adds value to end developers.Alex Atallah [00:45:08]: Sean, you may not remember this, but I think we met for the first time a few days after Mistral came out at NeurIPSAnjney Midha [00:45:15]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:45:15]: At a luncheon.Swyx [00:45:16]: Yeah. That's where I also met BFL as well. Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:45:18]: And Guillaume was there.Swyx [00:45:19]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:45:19]: I was at NeurIPS at that time.Alex Atallah [00:45:20]: You were there too. And, we had just announced the Mistral investment, and I remember Guillaume was over there, and I remember turning to Guillaume and asking him, Like, “Is it is all the. Like, how are you feeling after the launch of Mistral and seven B?” And, him in his typical French fashion was like, “ it's a, it's an okay model. It's not that good.” And I was like. It was so, in contrast. But I remember him also saying that part of the reason he felt a lot of people Thought that it was better than four was because of the speed. - it was an MoE model that they had, like, absolutely figured out how to make super efficient. It was on the Pareto frontier. And this is an important thing about LLMs, right? Sometimes when they're faster, you think they're smarter, even though, like, if you did, N of, these common, like, evals that are - you do seven tries, and I don't remember. I think we should go back and figure out what the data says, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out, oh, on an N of seven attempts, four was smarter on evals, but the perception of on, like, or correctness would be smarter or more accurate. But, people, like, from a human preference perspective felt that it was faster because it - or smarter because it's so fast.Swyx [00:46:36]: Yeah. And most queries do not take that levelAlex Atallah [00:46:39]: Don't take that. That's true.Swyx [00:46:40]: Right? So this is the start of humans as routerAlex Atallah [00:46:42]: Yes.Swyx [00:46:42]: Which then eventually becomes OpenRouter as router of like theAlex Atallah [00:46:45]: Oh, that's interesting way to think about it. Yeah.Swyx [00:46:47]: Like, because humans are the routing mechanism. Like, I will ask the fast model first, and then if, like, oh, not good enough, I'm gonna upgrade manually.Alex Atallah [00:46:52]: Yes.Swyx [00:46:53]: But then he's gonna auto it.Alex Atallah [00:46:54]: I didn't, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that makes sense.Swyx [00:46:57]: Which then there's, there's a lot more techniques, like fusion. Fusion is the thing that we should talk about. Before I move on to those things, I just want to close off the early years. one thing that I observe, which you are also an investor in Arena.OpenRouter vs. LM ArenaAlex Atallah [00:47:10]: Right.Swyx [00:47:10]: And we talked about Midjourney having that feedback loop of, A, B, C, D, and choosing that very. being very important. And you understand the flywheel. So how come you didn't build Arena, and how come Arena didn't build OpenRouter?Anjney Midha [00:47:23]: Well, Arena started before OpenRouter, right?Swyx [00:47:27]: They had the school projectAnjney Midha [00:47:29]: Yeah, LMSwyx [00:47:29]: And then it became a company.Anjney Midha [00:47:31]: LM Arena, yeah.Swyx [00:47:32]: So, but, and I know you had some Arena experiences, like the up comparison type things.Anjney Midha [00:47:37]: Yeah.Swyx [00:47:37]: But you never really went as hard as Arena did.Swyx [00:47:40]: And,Anjney Midha [00:47:40]: In doing up experiences?Swyx [00:47:42]: Yes. And LM Arena did have a router project based on LM Arena ELOs, which they never commercialized.Anjney Midha [00:47:48]: It's hard to do a company that does both because one company is taking data and selling it, and the other company really can't by default. So, I think there is, like, a branding reason that there are two companies here. like, when you set up OpenRouter, there's no training, there are no prompts, right, aside from what your provider policy set. Like, OpenRou- like, OpenRouter can't see your prompts or completions. If you want to see that as an org, you have to opt into it and enable it. And so we're, like, pretty conservative and careful about data policy and security. And privacy. And LM Arena is like, their business model is like oriented around the labs and,Swyx [00:48:34]: Because they give it for free, right? You don't give it for free to give it for free.Anjney Midha [00:48:37]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:48:38]: But we do give some. We like have free endpoints too, but like those free endpoints, we, I think we're not collecting any prompts. We're not like monetizing the data unless you, opt into it for some reason.Alex Atallah [00:48:48]: This comparison. you're not the first person to ask me this, and Alex knows this, but I was the interim, like the founder, like first CEO of Arena for the first five months when, and we were helping Anastasios and Waylin spin out of Berkeley. And, I did invest in that before, OpenRouter, but it was very strange to me the comparisons that outside, folks would make between the two projects because the missions were completely different. The founding entity for Arena, we called it the AI Reliability Institute because it was there as an eval service. Like the data, so to speak, that they were originally, offering the labs was how do you make the evaluation of models more reliable than like the state of the art at the time, which was like really just finger in the wind.Alex Atallah [00:49:38]: That's what Anastasios and Waylin's PhD work was as scientists at Berkeley, was on statistical methodologies for correcting, eval estimates, based on like intrinsic biases and how you collected the data.Swyx [00:49:54]: Yes.Alex Atallah [00:49:54]: AndSwyx [00:49:54]: Style control.Alex Atallah [00:49:55]: Style control and stuff like that. And which is very much like a, hey, how. If you're a scientist and you're trying to. the highest expectation customer for Arena was always like a training and, like a researcher at a lab. Whereas the highest expectation customer from my perspective that Alex like really understood and was the mission was to serve was like a developer, right? Who then takes the result of the research and then produces an application that's deployed to the world. It was a completely different problem and person that these two teams were focused on. And so from the outside in. I don't know if you remember this, but I have a distinct memory of a few weeks before we did the term sheet, together for OpenRouter, I'd given you a call because we were trying to get a pooled data set together from OpenRouter and from Arena to, create like an open source repository of prompts. these projects were so different in their goals that it was totally normal to me to be like, “Oh, yeah, let's call Alex and see if he'd want to team up on pooling data,” because they're so different. We need. We don't have that data at all. We. Like, we didn't have API prompts. We didn't, we didn't have like what developers want to do with the models, which is very different from what researchers inside a model lab want to do before releasing the model.Swyx [00:51:15]: Yeah.Alex Atallah [00:51:15]: Does that make sense? And so to this day, I think you see that this difference, even though at a 30,000-foot level you could. I guess you could conclude that Arena and OpenRouter are adjacent, but, the roadmaps, the missions and so on at the time at least were like in very different directions.Swyx [00:51:36]: That ideal customer, I get. I totally get that.Alex Atallah [00:51:39]: Yes.Swyx [00:51:39]: As a founder, I want to own everything, right?Alex Atallah [00:51:41]: That's possible.Swyx [00:51:42]: Like this is clearly an adjacency that I'm like gonna explore that.Anjney Midha [00:51:45]: Own everything meaning like you don't know what to do yet, so you wanna like make sure you catch PMFocus, Anthropic, and Roads Not TakenAlex Atallah [00:51:51]: No, I think what heAnjney Midha [00:51:52]: As quickly as possible.Alex Atallah [00:51:53]: You want to own the entire infrastructure space, and so you expand to whatever demand you can capture.Swyx [00:51:58]: You want to have a play in each end.Alex Atallah [00:51:59]: Yeah, I think that's, that's hard, in reality, because serving multiple customers is difficult.Swyx [00:52:05]: Clearly, this is the one focus, right?Alex Atallah [00:52:08]: Yeah.Anjney Midha [00:52:08]: Yeah. I still think even in the age of AI, like focus is,Alex Atallah [00:52:12]: Is criticalAnjney Midha [00:52:13]: Underrated and critical, not just because you end up with a better product by focusing your humans on it, but also because the world knows what your focus is.Alex Atallah [00:52:22]: One thousand percent.Anjney Midha [00:52:23]: The world can map like, “Oh, I have this issue. Which brand out there is going to help me with that issue? This is the brand that's known for that focus.”Alex Atallah [00:52:31]: Yes.Anjney Midha [00:52:32]: So like if I want real attention on this issue, like this really matters to me, I should go with the brand that cares the most about it.Alex Atallah [00:52:39]: To underscore Alex's point about how important focus is, in the early days of Anthropic, it was not easy to. Like people think that the early days of Anthropic were like super easy because they were on their 3 guys who left, but it was very

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On this week's episode of Material Concerns, Gaby joins Hannah and Marcelle for a long check-in and some Old Man Yells at Cloud, the segment where they complain about stuff—and boy do they deliver! Join them over on Patreon at patreon.com/ohwitchplease for Part II, full of even more complaints, some Oops All Oops, and to see if Gaby got engaged last weekend!!Support Material GirlsTo learn more about the show, head to our Instagram at instagram.com/ohwitchplease! Or check out our website ohwitchplease.ca (you can also find transcripts here!). You can gift a Patreon subscription at this link: https://www.patreon.com/ohwitchplease/gift!Music Credits:“Shopping Mall”: by Jay Arner and Jessica Delisle ©2020Used by permission. All rights reserved. As recorded by Auto Syndicate on the album “Bongo Dance”. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.