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We talk about the famous Wu Zetian, as well as Kings Munmu, Sinmun, and Hyoso in Silla.  These were the rulers at the same time that Uno no Sarara was overseeing things in Yamato.  Here we see a bit of tit for tat politics between Yamato and Silla.  We also get a tale of personal sacrifice from veterans of the Silla-Tang war against Baekje. For more notes and references, check out our blogpost page:  https://sengokudaimyo.com/podcast/episode-149 Rough Transcript Welcome to Sengoku Daimyo's Chronicles of Japan.  My name is Joshua and this is episode 149: Kings, Queen, and an Empress   Uno no Sarara and her son, Crown Prince Kusakabe, sat in court.  The trappings of the recent mourning period had been put aside with the recent burial of Uno's husband, Ohoama, and they were now preparing for Crown Prince Kusakabe's coronation.  However, the matter in front of them had nothing to do with that.  Instead, they listened to an official recounting of what had transpired on the peninsula.  The court had explicitly sent an envoy to Silla to inform them of Ohoama's death, but it took much longer than it should have for Norimaro and his party to return.  There had even been an envoy mission from Silla while they were away. As Uno no Sarara listened intently, she found it harder and harder to keep her emotions in check.  She listened as the story of the Yamato mission was told, and as she heard of how her messengers were treated—how they weren't even allowed to tell the Silla court their news all because someone in Silla had decided that they weren't appropriate ambassadors. Silla had finally come to learn of Ohoama's death, and the mission returned home, but this treatment was inexcusable.  These were not just Yamato's messengers, they were carrying the royal word of Queen Uno no Sarara, head of the state and de facto ruler as they mourned the loss of her husband and predecessor.  To have them kept waiting because of some invented protocol was an affront to the nation, but it was also an affront to her. This. Would. Not. Do...     Greetings, everyone!  Thank you once again for tuning in.  As you may recall, last episode we covered the ceremonies around the death and burial of Ohoama, aka Temmu Tennou, as well as the unceremonious death of Crown Prince Kusakabe, leading to the throne being taken by his mother, Queen Uno no Sarara, aka Jitou Tennou.  One aspect of everything that was going on was the relations with the continent.  This included missions from Yamato to the continent—especially those involved with communicating information about the changes in the Yamato court.  So this episode I thought we could look at some of the things we see in the record and go over where things sat with regards to the continent. First things first, let's brush up on where we left off.  Back in episode 140 we talked about how the Silla-Tang alliance had broken down.  With Baekje and Goguryeo both defeated, the Tang had set up commanderies to oversea captured territory in both kingdoms, and even though Emperor Tang Taizong had promised Silla suzerainty over Baekje, his successor, Gaozong, had not adhered to that agreement.  In response, and with the help of Goguryeo rebels, Kind Munmu of Silla had fought back against the Tang forces, eventually consolidating everything south of the Taedong river, approximating the extent of the modern country of South Korea. Meanwhile, Goguryeo rebels continued to trouble the Tang, and King Bojang set up by the Tang dynasty would eventually betray them, allying with the northern Malgal people.  They would continue to fight to restore their sovereignty.  With pressure from Silla and Goguryeo, the Tang commandery pulled back from Pyongyang to Liaoyang—effectively putting the mountainous regions at the head of the Korean peninsula between them and their enemies.  Silla control was de facto, but would not be recognized formally by the Tang dynasty until the early 8th century.  That didn't meant they were completely at odds, however.  Silla would resume diplomatic mission to the Tang, despite their territorial disagreements. Silla's King Munmu, who had pushed back against the Tang, was succeed by his son, known as King Sinmun.  Sinmun had been Crown Prince during the wars against Baekje and Goguryeo.  Much as Ohoama and Uno no Sarara had been doing on the archipelago, he was working to centralize royal authority in Silla. In 681, as Silla was still mourning the death of King Munmu, a rebellion broke out.  It was led by a high ranking Silla official, and father-in-law to Sinmun, Kim Humdol.  It was quickly put down, and Kim Humdol and other officials who were implicated were executed.  This was actually a golden opportunity for the new King Sinmun to help purge the court of any rivals or ministers with less than absolute dedication to his plan to centralize authority. I kind of get the feeling that, for all of the past conflicts between their nations, Sinmun, Ohoama, and Uno might have gotten along quite well.  However, that didn't stop the fact that they were rulers of rival nations, and while they may have had similar concepts of leadership, they also were focused on their own rule and authority. To that end, Sinmun also reached out to the Tang court with tribute missions, and in so doing was at least recognized by the Tang court, who enfeoffed him as King of Silla.  This appears to have been a bit of polite fiction, but that was how a lot of this operated, ultimately.  King Sinmun would have held power in Silla regardless of the Tang court's approval, but the fiction that the court had bestowed his authority no doubt provided some diplomatic benefits, and a context within which to operate on the international stage.  It also no doubt allowed for increased trade, bringing in exotic and high status items, which would have been useful for boosting approval ratings back home. King Sinmun ruled until his death in 691.  He was succeeded by his son, known as King Hyoso.  However, Hyoso was young—about 5 years old when he took the throne.  And so his mother, Queen Sinmok, acted as regent for much of his reign—right up until her death in 700.  Hyoso ended up reigning for a decade, until 702, meaning that he and his mother reigned throughout Uno no Sarara's period as sovereign in Yamato. Hyoso's reign saw continued progress towards centralization of authority, as well as improved relationships with the Tang court.  Silla maintained diplomatic ties and tribute missions, and the Tang court conferred recognition on Hyoso as the King of Silla, in return. Speaking of the Tang Court, Emperor Tang Gaozong passed away before Ohoama had, departing this world in 683.  However, for all that he was the emperor, he had not really been the one running things for some time.  Gaozong came to the throne at roughly 21 years of age, and throughout most of his reign he had to share power with others in the court.  Originally this meant high ranking minister, but there was also his wife, Wu Zhao, aka Wu Zetian.  Wu had been a consort under Tang Taizong, and then continued as a consort for Gaozong as well.  Then, in 655, she was officially made empress. In 660, Gaozong began to suffer from an unknown illness, characterized by headaches, dizziness, , and occasional seizures and loss of vision.  Some have suggested it was a stroke or some form of hypertension.  Either way, these symptoms would plague him for the rest of his reign, and so he began to delegate more and more authority to Wu Zhao, who would handle things on his behalf. Thus, Wu was effectively already running things by the time of Gaozong's death in 683.  At that point, she became the Empress Dowager, and her third son became emperor Zhongzong—at least in name.  Because Wu Zhao maintained all of the power and authority at court.  She was, in fact, the regent, and a mere six weeks after Zhongzong took the throne he was removed by his own mother.  It seems that Zhongzong, who came to the throne at the age of 28, was showing signs of being a little too much under the influence of his wife, Empress Wei.  In fact, he is said to have considered giving her the Empire.  And so Wu had him deposed and exiled.  She then had his younger brother made Emperor Ruizong, though still under Wu Zhao's term as regent. Ruizong was about 22 when he took the throne under his mother in 684.  He would continue to reign until 690, when he abdicated the throne in favor of his mother.  From that point on, Wu Zhao ruled as the sovereign for another 15 years, until the year 705, declaring it a return of the ancient Zhou dynasty.  In other words, for all of Uno no Sarara's reign in Yamato, another woman, Wu Zhao, sat atop the traditionally patriarchal seat of power in the Tang—and later Zhou—court. Wu Zhao is more commonly known to us, today, as Wu Zetian.  This comes from her final title as reigning monarch:  Zetian Dasheng Huangdi, or Heaven-following Great Holy Emperor.  She is often depicted as a ruthless and politically savvy ruler who usurped the throne through her feminine wiles and violence.  We see how she dethroned her own son to avoid him giving up the throne to his wife.  She is also said to have had another son killed because of her ambitions, and is even accused of killing her own daughter just to blame a rival at court.  She is also depicted performing plenty of other unflattering acts. Of course, it is worth noting that she was not the one to write her own history.  After her reign, her epitaph was inscribed by her own political rivals.   It is notable that she is the only Empress to be recognized as ruling in her own right in the entire history of China.  Certainly there were others who reigned as regents, and women with tremendous power and influence, but none of them really held the throne uncontested. Given the animosity of the authors who wrote about her reign, we have to take anything we hear about Wu Zhao with a bit of salt.  On the other hand, Tang dynasty imperial politics were ruthless, and you didn't get to the top because you had a charming demeanor.   While there is no doubt more than a little slander written into the history books, one only has to look at the men who ruled before and after her to wonder whether she really did anything that was so much better or worse than what they did.  Just keep that in mind as we go through some of what she was accused of. Now what we are told is that with her younger son, Emperor Ruizong, she was only nominally pretending to be regent.  She didn't bother to hide behind a screen with him out front and we are told she openly whispered answers and commands that Ruizong would immediately parrot.  Ruizong never moved into the imperial suites of the palace, which his mother maintained.  Ruizong didn't even attend imperial functions, and officials were not allowed to meet with him privately.  An uprising in Yang state was said to be in part because of her rule, and it was suggested that she should step aside and let her son truly rule to restore confidence, but she was having none of it and had those who suggested it arrested.  Later, she would institute post boxes around government buildings for people to snitch on those around them who might be disloyal, and she instituted secret police, who investigated various rumors and false accusations with torture, leading to numerous executions. In 685 she is said to have had an affair with a Buddhst monk, Huaiyi, who was then conferred with various honors.  Then, in 686, she offered to return the throne to Ruizong, but Ruizong, realizing that there was no way she would let go of power, saw it as a test of his obedience, and declined.  In 688 she summoned senior members of the Li Family, the family of the Tang emperors, under the pretense of making sacrifices to the spirit of the Luo river, which flowed through the Eastern Capital of Luoyang.  Several of the Princes of the Li house were worried that she was going to slaughter them all, Red Wedding style, if they showed up, in order to secure the throne to herself, and so they plotted to rebel, but coordination was not the greatest back then, and two princes rose up before the others were ready.  They were crushed, and many other members of the Li family were implicated, arrested, and forced to commit suicide.  In 690, she completely did away with any dissembling and declared a new dynasty—the Zhou dynasty—declaring herself Shengshen Huangdi, or Holy Divine Emperor of the Zhou dynasty.  And yes, this is the same Zhou as the ancient Zhou dynasty—she was apparently claiming descent from the ancient rulers of Zhou. Her son was thus deposed and she ruled uncontested from 690 until her death in705.  She would go by various names.  Three years in and she would add "Jinlun", or "Golden Wheel" to her title, referring to the Buddhist concept of a Chakravartin, or Golden Wheel Turning Monarch. This latter title came in part as she is said to have elevated the foreign religion of Buddhism over the native Taoist religion.  She is also said to have built numerous temples around the capital cities and elsewhere.  In 692, the rising power of the secret police appeared to have been halted.  One of the officials in charge, Lai Junchen, attempted to have a handful of officials executed for false accusastions.  He told them that if they confessed to the accusations, their lives would be spared, and so many of them confessed to the false accusations, but Junchen conspired to have them executed anyway.  One of the officials was none other than the famous Di Renjie.  Renjie wrote a petition on his blanket and then hid that with the laundry that he sent to his family when it was time to change from winter to summer robes.  His family found it and submitted the petition to Wu Zhao, who became suspicious of Junchen.  For his part, Junchen has submitted forged petitions from the prisoners, thanking Empress Wu for preparing to execute them. Other accusations against Junchen's methods came to light, and so Empress Wu interrogated the prisoners personally.  They all disavowed their confessions, and so Wu commuted their sentences from death to exile.  Junchen continued to operate until 697, but there seems to have been a notable decrease in the number of executions after that point.  He would eventually go too far, and planning to accuse the Li and Wu princes and princesses of treason, but they acted first and he ended up being executed.  Without Lai Junchen, the secret police seem to have largely fallen apart. As for Di Renjie, he eventually worked his way back into the good graces of Wu and the court, eventually being recalled to Luoyang to serve.  Di Renjie's own legend grew, and in the 18th or 19th century he was recast as a kind of Tang dynasty detective in the historical crime drama genre popular at the time.  The book, "Di Gong An", or "Celebrated Cases of Judge Dee", was found by a Dutch Ambassador to China, Robert van Gulik, in a used bookstore in Tokyo, of all places.  Van Gulik would go on to translate the stories and penned a number of others using the style and characters of the original.  Judge Dee was cast as the "Sherlock Holmes of China" and has since become popular in both China and the West.  The first novel in the series was actually set in the time of Empress Wu. Robert van Gulik also had several scholarly works, including a translation of the Tang Yin Pi Shih, a 13th century manual for magistrates with examples of cases spanning approximately 1400 years, from the Qin to Song dynasty.  This work really helps to illuminate how the ancient justice system worked back then.  Fictional detectives aside, Empress Wu would continue to reign over an impressive period in history.  There were plenty of deadly politics, various attacks by outside forces, and more. Overall, it was a fairly prosperous time for the empires. When Wu passed away in 705, her son, Emperor Zhongzong, resumed the throne, ending the Zhou dynasty and resuming the Tang dynasty of the Li family.  Still, Wu Zhao, aka Wu Zetian, would be well remembered.  She was buried in the Qianling Mausoleum, near Chang'an, alongside her late husband, Emperor Gaozong.  Various other members of the Royal Li family were also buried there, and many of their tombs have been opened.  The paintings, statues, and artwork and funerary goods provide a tremendously detailed look at Tang court culture and society at this time.  Statues outside indicate officials and ambassadors from across the Tang courts sphere of influence.  There are depictions of court dress and the elaborate hairstyles, fabrics, and more, as the tombs generally include court men and women.  The famous mural of the Ambassadors is shown with Korean, western, and possibly even a Japanese envoy.  The murals also show architectural elements of ancient Chang'an and more. The tombs of Gaozong and Zetian clearly known, but currently have not undergone excavation.  Much like with the tomb of Qin Shihuangdi, the government has put a moratorium on opening the tombs until they can be sure that everything can be properly protected as they do so.  There is a huge concern that the tombs could be robbed or that priceless works could be damaged if they are opened improperly or without sufficient techniques to adequately preserve them. As noted above, although Empress Wu is often demonized by historians, we have to ask if her reign was truly so much different from others.  She was certainly a woman taking power in a male-dominated system.  Where a man projecting power was seen as normal, Empress Wu was seen as perverting the natural order.  An emperor taking to bed numerous consorts and concubines was considered only natural.  However, Empress Wu taking to bed various men for her own enjoyment was seen as licentious and indecent.  The double-standard seems pretty clear. I even have to wonder about things like the secret police.  While it certainly is alarming to see a government sending people out to arrest and charge people on the barest of evidence, often with little or no accountability or transparency, one should consider what justice looked like at the time, more generally.  Tang dynasty justice was often harsh, and torture was considered a standard practice to elicit a confession.  Once someone was accused of a crime, their guilt was assumed, and it was on them to prove their innocence.  This was a tall order, as the thinking of the day was often that if you hadn't done anything wrong, why would anyone risk falsely accusing you?  So clearly you had done *something* to disrupt the social order, even if it wasn't what you were actually accused of. Furthermore, there is a fine line between rooting out disloyalty to the regime and rooting out corruption.  Anonymous tips can be used to call SWAT to someone's house, but it can also be a way for a whistleblower to alert those in authority that something untoward is going on.  And something begun with the best of intentions, can easily be corrupted, especially in the wrong hands. And so I think we can give Empress Wu at least the benefit of the doubt that she seems to have tried to do right by the people and her country.  The Tang court, by all accounts, was a nest of vipers, and I don't think she was a saint, but neither was she the devil incarnate. In fact, a lot of the accusations against Empress Wu would appear to be paralleled, years later, in the archipelago—possibly being parroted by men who were aware of the anti-Wu propaganda.  Kouken Tennou—who would also reign a second time as Shoutoku Tennou, was embroiled in conflict. Like Wu, she came to power in a court embroiled in familial politics.  She was known to be a supporter of Buddhism, and she was also said to have had an affair with a monk, Doukyou, upon whom she is said to have lavished power and authority.  She is also said to have modeled her nengo, the auspicious names for the year, off of Empress Wu.  After her death, her reign was used as a reason why there was not another regnant female sovereign on the throne until the Edo period, and she is often seen as the Last Female Sovereign, much as there was never another Empress regnant amongst the various Sinic dynasties. However, returning ourselves back to the 7th century, those histories had yet to be written.  Instead, one has to wonder how much communication there was between the continent and the archipelago.  Did Uno no Sarara realize that she was not the only woman taking charge at that time?  Was Empress Wu considered a model for her?  Or was she seen as more of a rival?  Or was it neither?  Did either one regard the other at all, embroiled as they were in their own, local and domestic pursuits? If they did, there isn't much, if anything, in the record. There is plenty to be said about relations with both Silla and the Tang dynasty in general, however.  Most of the focus was actually on Silla, to be honest—not surprising given Silla's place in the international arena in relation to Yamato. Last episode we mentioned that an embassy was sent to Silla to announce the death of Ohoama.  It was only several months after he had passed away, on the 19th day of 687.  The chief and assistant envoys were Tanaka no Ason no Norimaro and Mori no Kimi no Karita.  Norimaro is listed as Jikikwoshi rank—the lowest of the Jiki category, which was the 3rd of 6.  This put him about 24 ranks down in the 48 rank system.  Karita, on the other hand, was Tsuidaini, putting him at about 43 of 48 court ranks.  Normally, I don't pay too much attention to the ranks that are given in the Chronicles, mainly for two reasons.  First off is that you aren't always sure that the rank given in the Chronicle corresponds with the rank at the time of the event—sometimes we see ranks that are clearly anachronistic—typically later in their life.  Since people don't typically drop in rank, unless they are demoted, this usually gives you some information, but not always. The second reason I often don't pay attention is because it usually isn't germane to the story.  It is why I'll also drop the uji and the kabane, once we establish a particular person.  Otherwise it feels like word salad. Every once in a while I do like to look at the ranks, however, because they do give us information about things like the individual's general position in the court hierarchy.  In this case we see that, of the officials selected for this assignment, one was near the bottom of the upper half of the court, while the other was really in a much more junior position.  I believe this may also be important later on, because there was a certain expectation that the person representing a sovereign in diplomatic situations would have sufficient rank to indicate some amount of pull, back home. The mission of Norimaro and Karita to Silla may have been ordered in the first month of the year, but it seems it likely took time before it actually left—or something happened.  I say this because in the 9th month we see an embassy from Silla arrive, and they are apparently unaware of any changes in the archipelago.  The embassy was headed by the Prince Gim Sangnim.  We are also told that there were two other officials, Gim Salmo and Gim Insyul, both of Geupson rank.  Then there was So Yangsin of Daesa rank.  That was two of vice ministerial rank and one of lower official rank.  These ranks were connected both to their office and to their family, as Silla still used a fairly rigid system based on the rank of one's family, similar to the way that the old Kabane system worked before it was reformed under Ohoama in the previous reign. The embassy from Silla also included a student-priest, Chiryu.  Presumably Chiryu was from Yamato and had gone abroad to study, and was now making his way back home. It appears as though the embassy had no idea that Ohoama had passed away as we are told that they had to be informed by the Dazai—the Viceroy of Tsukushi.  Once they were informed, they all put on mourning clothing, turned towards the east—towards the capital of Yamato—and they bowed three times and then cried out lamentations three times. I would note that there is another record in the first month of the following year, which states that Gim Sangnim and his colleagues were informed of Ohoama's death and lamented three times.   That could just be a misplaced duplicate of the previous entry, about the embassy—possibly it got recorded multiple times and different ways and on different dates.  It isn't exactly clear.  Either way, it seems that this was not meant to be an official condolence envoy, but just a regular embassy bringing trade goods disguised as tribute.  In fact, in the 2nd month of 688 we are told that the Viceroy of Tsukushi presented the tribute from Silla to the capital.  It is said to have included gold and silver, thin silks, cloth, skins, copper, and iron.  There were also images of the Buddha, all kinds of coloured fine silks, birds, and horses.  Sangnim himself had presents of gold and silver, colored stuffs, and various rarieties—80 items all told.  Sangnim and his crew probably didn't travel to Asuka, because we are told that as of the 10th day of the 2nd month of 688 they were being entertained in the Tsukushi government house, where they were given various gifts by the court, and then they headed out on the 29th day of that month. A year after that, in the first month of 689, Norimaro and Karita returned from Silla, suggesting that the two embassies really had just passed each other—such were the issues with international travel back in the day. Now, normally, we don't hear much about what happened during these embassies.  The Nihon Shoki doesn't typically record anything, possibly because they just didn't have any records.  And the records in the Samguk Sagi often don't mention anything, either.  It is possible that it was just considered too routine to mention the ins and outs.  However, in this instance, we may have some insight, because it is mentioned later in the narrative. You see, four months behind Norimaro and Karita came the formal Silla condolence envoy.  It was headed by Gim Dona, of Geupson rank—so a vice minister instead of a prince heading up the embassy.  Silla also sent student-priests Meiso, Kwanchi, and others, along with a gold-copper image of Amida Buddha and a gold-copper image of Kannon and an image of Daiseishi Boddhisatva, along with colored silks and brocades. A month after they arrived, the condolence envoy received a message from none other than Queen Uno no Sarara herself, but this was not necessarily a good thing.  In fact, she appears to be dressing down the Silla envoys and the Silla court more generally, because of how things had gone with Norimaro and Karita—and this possibly also explains why it took so long for them to get to Silla and back. According to the Yamato court, Norimaro and Karita were sent to Silla to announce the death of Ohoama.  However, Silla protocol stated that persons charged to deliver a royal message had always had the rank of Sopan. This appears to be equivalent to the rank of Japchan, and indicates the third rank in Silla's system.  Because of this, Queen Uno's message goes on to state, Norimaro and Karita were not allowed to deliver their message about Ohoama's passing to the court.  However, back when Karu—Koutoku Tennou—had passed away in 654, Kose no Inamochi went to announce the funerals dates, and he was received by Gim Shunshun listened to the report.  So saying that it is someone of the third rank that is needed goes against precedent. Furthermore, when Naka no Oe passed away in 671, Silla sent Gim Salyu, who was of 7th rank, but now they send someone of 9th rank.  So if precedent was to be followed, wouldn't that also be a problem? This whole thing is really fascinating in that it demonstrates the kind of delicate balance and back and forth that was going on—and I suspect that it was growing even more specific as each country was adopting more rules and laws, and compiling them into codes.  It is notable that the Chronicles make sure to state the rank of each ambassador from Silla, at least in the last several reigns.  That suggests that the government was tracking such things, and that it was important. The rest of the screed by the Yamato court seems a little more about setting out Yamato's position on Silla-Yamato relations.  Here Yamato puts words into the mouths of former Silla officials, claiming that they always addressed Yamato's sovereign with deference.  Yamato claimed Silla had promised service to Yamato since the remote royal ancestors, promising that the oars of the ships bringing tribute to the archipelago would "never become dry", and yet this time, there was only one ship that came to offer condolences.  Furthermore, the Silla kings were to serve the sovereigns of Yamato faithfully, but they had now broken the faith. Therefore their tribute goods were sealed up and returned back. That said, they weren't completely breaking off communications.  This was a rebuke, certainly, but they were willing to keep channels open with hopes that relations might improve in the future. My read on all of this is that the Yamato envoys to Silla had been snubbed by that court for not being of appropriate station by Silla's rules.  Therefore, in a tit-for-tat move, Yamato was treating the condolence envoy similarly. That doesn't mean they didn't show them any hospitality, though.  Queen Uno no Sarara had the Viceroy, Awada no Mabito no Ason, give the student-priests Meiso and Kanchi, who had just come back with the condolence envoy, 140 kin of floss silk for their teachers back in Silla, in apparent gratitude.  And then a few days later they were entertaining the condolence envoys in Wogohori in Tsukushi, and giving them various presents for their trouble. This is likely the kind of "don't shoot the messenger".  Sure, they were returning the tribute and sending a message to Silla, but that wasn't the fault of Gim Dona and his colleagues.  And they were now taking a rather disappointing message back with them—I doubt anyone wanted to be in Gim Dona's shoes as he told the court what had transpired. Gim Dona and crew left shortly after that.  From there, we don't have a lot of information on what happened.  The Silla annals of the Samguk Sagi don't record Gim Dona's embassy, let alone what happened when they came back.  However, Silla  would send future envoys, and diplomatic relations between the two countries continued throughout the reign.  The Silla embassies from that point on are largely, for our purposes, unremarkable.  I may mention them if they relate to other items of note, but for the most part there is really only two other embassies of note, and they were in the year 693.  The first was from Silla, led by Gim Gangnam of Sasan rank, along with Gim Yangweon of Hannama rank—so 8th and 11th rank in the Silla hierarchy, apparently.  They had come to announce the death of King Sinmun, who had passed away the previous year.    And so, on the 16th day of the 3rd month, an embassy was prepared to depart for Silla.  It was headed up by Okinaga no Mabito no Oyu, of Jikikwoshi rank—much as Norimaro had been.  He and his proposed vice envoy, Ohotomo no Sukune no Kogimi, who was Gondaini rank—27th of 48—were both given gifts prior to their election as ambassadors, and were sent as condolence envoys, themselves. Meanwhile, let's take a look at Yamato's interactions with the Tang dynasty. First of all, we see a note in the 6th month of 689 that presents of rice were given to Xu Shouyen, Sa Hungko, and others from the land of the Great Tang.  So was this an embassy?  Not quite. Remember that little scuffle back in the 660s on the Korean Peninsula?  That special military operation by Silla and Tang forces against Baekje, where Yamato had tried to assist, only to have their navy bested by Tang forces? Well during the fighting , there had been numerous prisoners taken, on both sides.  Xu Shouyen and Sa Hungko were two such prisoners.  Except that "prison" in this case was largely being sent to live off the land.  They were probably forced to do labor, though if they had special skills, such as reading and writing, they may have been put to work in another way.  Indeed, we later see these two mentioned not as prisoners or even slaves, but as teachers of "pronunciation".  They were even given rice-land and stipends of their own.  Granted, this is decades after they first came to  Yamato, so this wasn't exactly a smooth ride. But it wasn't just Tang prisoners in Yamato.  Yamato soldiers had also been captured and taken prisoner by Tang forces.  And so, in the 9th month of 690, we see three priests who had gone to the land of Tang to study returned in the company of a Silla escort envoy, and they brought back with them a soldier, Ohotomobe no Hakama, from the Upper Yame district in Tsukushi. The three priests, Chishiu, Gitoku, and Jougwan all made their way to the capital, arriving several weeks after they first made landfall in Tsukushi.  At this point, Prince Kawachi was the Dazai in charge of affairs out there, and soon after the priests arrived at Naniwa and made their way to the capital, in Asuka, messengers going the other way made it out to Tsukushi with orders to give presents and gifts to the Gim Gohun, the escort envoy who had shuttled them all back from the continent. But even more impressive was the royal edict that was dated a week later for Ohotomobe no Hakama.  It lays out the circumstances of his capture and what happened to him that he stayed in the land of the Tang for so long.  You see, Hakama was one of many soldiers who was captured during the war to defend Baekje.  But three years after that conflict, the Tang dynasty was no longer trying to keep them prisoner.  This was a time when you didn't necessarily need to have buildings with walls to keep people prisoner—you just moved them to a new area where they could farm or otherwise set up a livelihood, or starve.  Travel was dangerous and expensive, especially if you didn't speak the language.  Nonetheless, if you did wish to return, there wasn't a lot stopping you, beyond just having the means to do so. And so this group of Wa soldiers got together and debated what to do.  We are told that it was four men—Hashi no Hoto, Kohori no Oyu, Tsukuhi no Satsuyama, and Yuge no Gen Jitsuni—the last one apparently having taken a local name on the continent.  Amongst themselves, they wanted to return to the archipelago not just to see their families and friends, but also to let people back home know about the changing conditions on the mainland.  As you may recall, around this time, Yamato was fiercely building up forces and defenses because they were convinced that there was going to be an attack by the Tang and Silla forces at any moment. The only problem that these four had in getting back was that they had, well, nothing.  They had neither the clothing nor provisions to make such a journey.  What would they eat and how would they pay for passage?  As such, they were unable to get back.  Hearing this, Ohotomobe no Hakama spoke up.  He declared that, as much as he also wished to return, he could at least help them out.  He offered to be sold into slavery so that his companions could obtain money with which to buy food and clothing. And so they did.  Hakama was sold, and he probably had no idea what happened to the four after that. It turns out, however, that they did make it back and were able to give the Yamato court some idea of what had happened.  Meanwhile, Hakama remained in a foreign land as a slave for some 30 years, until he was finally able to make it back to Yamato, apparently with the help of the three monks. This whole story was relayed to the court, and when the Queen heard it, she decided to act.  And thus the edict.  Not only did she recount his story and praise him for his loyalty, but he was granted certain honors.  First off, he was granted the rank of Mudaishi—the 39th rank in the court hierarchy, which gave him not a small amount of status, especially if he stayed in Tsukushi.  He was also granted5 pieses of coarse silk, 10 bundles of floss silk, 30 tan of cloth, and 1000 sheaves of rice.  On top of that, though, he received four chou of rice-land, which was given to him and his descendants, until at least his great-grandchildren.  Finally, his parents, siblings, and children, were also exempted from having to ever provide corvee labor. Now, nobody could give him back his 30 years, but this was quite the consolation prize, at the time.  To basically get rank and status, a stipend down four generations, and exemption from forced labor for him and his relatives, that was pretty incredible, if you think about it. Hakama wasn't the only one who had suffered in the country of the Great Tang and was rewarded for it.  Mononobe no Kusuri, from Iyo, and Mibu no Moroshi, in Higo, were also paid out handsomely in consolation for their sufferings,  though we aren't given details on their stories, or even when they came back. There are also other descriptions of Tang men, but it seems that these were individuals in a similar position to Xu Shouyen and Sa Hungko—they had been captured and were now living in Yamato.  That they were integrating into Yamato society seems clear from the fact that they were given rank and similarly treated like vassals of the throne. What we don't see, however, are any further diplomatic missions.  Those wouldn't start up for a while, and so even if Queen Uno no Sarara had wanted to confer with another female monarch, it would have to have been done through the auspices of Silla, who at t his point seem to have largely controlled the flow of goods, people, and thus information between the straits. And with that, I think we can close out this episode.  Moving forward, we have more details about a lot of different things, and yet others are still lacking.  It is my goal to try and be a little more selective about the passages we pull from the Chronicles.  We don't need to go over every natural disaster or prayer to the wind-gods.  We will take a look at things like the completion of the Fujiwara capital, as well as the 22 volumes of the Asuka-Kiyomihara law codes.  And then there are a few persons of note that we should probably mention as well, such as the appearance of Fujiwara no Fubito.  We should also talk about some of the other royal edicts that were made. All of that for later.  For now, if you like what we are doing, please tell your friends and feel free to rate us wherever you listen to podcasts.  If you feel the need to do more, and want to help us keep this going, we have information about how you can donate on Patreon or through our KoFi site, ko-fi.com/sengokudaimyo, or find the links over at our main website,  SengokuDaimyo.com/Podcast, where we will have some more discussion on topics from this episode. Also, feel free to reach out to our Sengoku Daimyo Facebook page.  You can also email us at the.sengoku.daimyo@gmail.com.  Thank you, also, to Ellen for their work editing the podcast. And that's all for now.  Thank you again, and I'll see you next episode on Sengoku Daimyo's Chronicles of Japan.

Lakshmi Kanchi is an emerging, prize-winning Indian Australian poet and storyteller on a mission—to make poetry accessible. She is the author of “Lakesong”, her debut poetry collection, published by Centre for Stories, and has been published in several journals and anthologies. Lakshmi shares how her life began again while sitting and writing by the stained glass windows of the beloved Heritage House in Swanbourne. ABOUT THE COLLECTION: Swanbourne Story Tracks is a collection sharing community stories of personal connections to the areas between Freshwater Bay, Lake Claremont, and the Indian Ocean. These stories were produced in partnership and made possible by generous funding from Town Team Movement and Project Mooro. Storytellers participated in a series of workshops where they worked with our specialist story trainer, Colin Archibald, to craft first-person narratives about their memorable experiences living in this neighbourhood or moments collected while passing through these streets in their lives. In this collection, you will hear live recordings from five unique voices sharing personal stories of connection to place and community. This story and corresponding images are owned by the storyteller and have been licensed to the Centre for Stories. For reproduction and distribution of this story/image please contact the Centre for Stories. To support Centre for Stories in helping more important truths to be told and share, please consider donating or partnering with us. You can find out more about Centre for Stories at www.centreforstories.com. This episode was narrated and produced by Vuma Phiri from Centre for Stories. Original music and sound engineering by Mason Vellios. Live recording by Mason Vellios

Many years ago people living in rural Nepal and some living in Nepali communities in India engaged in musical game where two singing groups engage in lyrical (couplet) interaction. We called them Juhari" (जुहारी) and "Dohori" (दोहोरी). Although "Dohori" is the more common term,it is also called "Juhari", particularly in the context of live performances or competitions. There is no specific date marking the origin of these folk songs, nor a single place it can trace back to. It has lived as an oral tradition. I have taken a bold decision to introduce it into my story. From what I have heard, my paternal grandparents used to sing Dohari and I still remember a few lines my late grandmother used to hummed. I hope my audience will embrace my creative choice and enjoy thìs narrative.Sound editing- Pankaj Shastri BGM Flute: Sujan Lama; BGM Sad Flute: Selim Reza

Kanchi Hai Kanchi- Part 1A young woman crosses invisible border to seek freedom and hope in a new sanatorium . Clinging on to her is her toddler son and a past she cannot escape. The tale of Muglan retold, through Dohari and Jhawre songs. This time I took the liberty to introduce a historical figure into my story.Sound mixing courtesy - Pankaj ShastriBGM- Fate BelieverPC- Das Studio, Darjeeling

Sannadhiyil sendru naan petra peyaradhu Saami arivaaradi, amma Kanchi Mahaswami arivaaradi.... Sh.S T Venkatraman --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

NIRAIVURAI --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Narayana Narayanannu thinam avanai ezhuda sollu.... Sh. Bhajan Ravi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

..... Pudukottai vakkeel Sh.T Srinivasa Iyer (Late) Smt.Vaalambal thambadiyarum --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Enakku Deepavali dressa ?.... Smt.Lalitha Sundaram --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Jagathguruvin paadham panivom.... Smt.V Lakshmi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Saamrajiya pattabhishega maminnu solluda.... Smt.Rajalakshmi Vittal --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Sri Kanchi mahangalum Pudukottai vakkeel Sh.T Srinivasa Iyer (Late) Smt.Vaalambal thambadiyarum --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Mahaperiyava saapida sonna Upmavum Paalum.... Smt.P Mangalam --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Acharyarum Ambalumey gathi endru... The Geneology of Vasishta Bharathi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Thozhiya vittutu vandhuttale..... Sh.V.Subramanian --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Naan oruvan thaan baaki irundhein.... Thiru P Venkatraman --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Thavam seidha thavam... Sh.Tiruchi Aiyappan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Ippa ennai nanna paaka mudiyardha ?..... Thiru Hosur Ananthan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Theeradha noyum theerndhadu.... Thiru Hosur Ananthan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

MahaPeriyava adaikka sonna kadan..... Hosur Ananthan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Periyava kudutha sholapur bedsheet.... Thiru R Anandan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

"Paatu paadu" Periyava itta kattalai ..... Thiru Mannai Pasandhi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Engal vaazhvin jyothi.... Smt.Radha Ganesan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Maha Periyava sootikonda Pancharatna Haram..... Smt.Lakshmi Raghavan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Brahma Vishnu Shivan yaaru theriyuma..... Sh.Vedapuri Shastrigal --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Puthira sogangalai kadandhu..... Thiru Vaanjeeswaran --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Mahaperiyava uttharavukku edho artham irukku..... Smt.Seethalakshmi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Enn vaazhkaiye avar nirnayam seithaduthaan..... Sh.V Sundaram, IAS Retd. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Naan inime Govindapurathilthaan irukka porein..... Smt.Ambal Kamakshi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Thedi varum Deivathiruvarul... Smt.Radha Ganesan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Mayilaiyil Shree Guru Paduka Mandapam.... Sh.Narasimhan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Periyava ketta pachchai kal thodum paalum pazhamum.... Smt.Seethalakshmi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Karunai theiyvama engakoodaiye irukka Periyava..... Sh.G.Ramarathinam --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Irumbeerkkum gaanthamai ennai eerkkum Maha Periva..... Hosur Ganesan engira Venkatraman Sharma --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Thaayarai akkaraiyum Thanthaiyai arivuraiyum..... Sh.N.S.Gopalakrishnan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Marakka mudiyadha andha naal ..... Sh.Aaroor R Subramanian --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Manidha theyrgal .... Smt.Geetha Subramanian --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Manam lesagum maayam purialai - Smt.Saroja Vanji --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Endraikkum nee enn kuzhandaithaan - Smt.Karpagam Venkatraman --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Andha puli vendamppa ... Smt.Pattu Ramanathan --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sowram/message

Sep 25,2023 Monday : Morning : Sandhya GurubhaktiYog - Kanchi Ngri Ke Shikshak Yadav Prakash Aur Ramanujam Part -1

Ever wondered if you could create talent communications 10x faster while ensuring they're bias-free? Join us as we chat with Keshavon, the co-founder and CEO of iShield, a cutting-edge generative AI platform that's revolutionizing HR teams and talent communication processes. Keshavon shares how iShield stands out from other large language models like GPT-3 and dives into the platform's unique features for detecting and eliminating biases in AI-generated content.We also explore iShield's incredible applications throughout the talent lifecycle, from employer branding to recruitment. Learn how companies are harnessing the power of this AI platform to craft job descriptions, career website copy, and candidate nurturing campaigns that are tailor-made for their brands. Plus, discover how iShield seamlessly integrates with popular applicant tracking systems and talent CRM platforms, ultimately creating a more inclusive hiring process. Don't miss this enlightening conversation on the future of AI in talent communications!Listen & Subscribe on your favorite platformApple | Spotify | Google | Amazon

In this episode, environment researchers Kanchi Kohli and Manju Menon discuss environmental impact assessments in India, and the impact of environmental degradation on local communities.‘In Perspective' is The Swaddle's podcast series where academics reveal little-known facts about Indian history, society and culture. Notes: 00:01:01:03- As we navigate through an economic crisis, how important is it to focus on environmental regulations for industries, and ensure that they remain strong?00:04:37:21- How do companies around the world view environmental concerns? What is this mindset that drives how those in business look at environmental justice and environmental concerns around them?00:08:49:19- What is an environmental safety net? Does an industry need to ensure a perimeter around where they operate so their environmental impact doesn't flow beyond that? Is it an issue in regulation, enforcement or compliance? 00:11:36:07- What is the history of the Environmental Impact Assessments (EIA) in the global South? What was the context within which the EIA emerged in India in 1994? Why has it been so hotly debated? 00:19:14:01- Within this framework of the EIA, what is the role of the public hearing process? Is there any compulsion on the government to weave the outcome of this public hearing process into the assessment report of the EIA, or is it just for show?00:25:07:20- Why have you written that India's coastline is a space that epitomizes policy contradictions?00:33:46:12- Does environmental policy being a state matter (as opposed to being centralized at the national level) help, because it is more targeted to the ecology of the area, or is it detrimental, since it can become scattered and arbitrary? 00:38:03:23- How did natural elements transform into these mobile, tradable commodities over time? How do we change this idea that nature is a limitless resource? How does the policy discourse around nature need to change? 00:48:00:11- How has land transformation been at the center of economic growth of post-colonial, Asian nation states? Has this land use transformation impacted resource dependent communities? Has the Indian state been able to address this effectively? 00:56:22:10- Is there any potentially successful legal protection for local communities impacted by land degradation? If they were to mount a challenge within the legal system, what is their chance of success? 

In the 2nd part of our Holi episode, we talk about the colours, issues, the images and the misconceptions with our guest Neha who is the founder of Shaktitva.org.General InformationSubscribers are requested to look for The Hindu Parenting notification emails for new podcasts/posts in their email promotions/spam tab and personally move these into the main inbox. Thereafter all posts will be delivered to their main inbox. Thank you!For questions that you'd like us to address, please use the form below:Hindu Parenting QuestionsFor comments and suggestions, please use the comments tab or write to us at contact@hinduparenting.orgPlease note that questions will not be answered on email.Do subscribe to our substack and follow us on our social media handlesTwitter: hinduparentingInstagram: hinduparentingTelegram: t.me/hinduparentingFacebook: facebook.com/groups/hinduparentingTranscriptRekha: Namaste! Welcome to the Hindu Parenting Podcast, Part 2 of the Holi Episode. Please join us as we continue the fascinating discussion about the Festival of Holi with some more stories from Neha ji, founder of Shaktitva and a Devi Upasaka.Neha: So, just to complete the story, eventually when all of these attempts to, you know, to kill Prahlad fail, and Hiranyakashipu decides to take the matters into his own hands and he finds this unarmed child. In a fit of rage, he tries to strike a sword with. So, he, you know, the child ducks and the sword hits a pillar. And from that pillar, Narsimha Avatar appears. And now Narsimha Avatar is the half-man, half-animal. So, it's not either, the boon was either animal or man. But this avatar is half-man, half-animal. And this is the most, you know, interesting element of the story.So, this Narsimha Avatar, Sri Vishnu takes him to the, at the, what we call dehleez , like the corner of the house. Yeah, the threshold of the house, exactly. He stands on the threshold of the house, takes this demon, puts him on his thigh, so that he's not on the ground or on the sky. He's on Sri Vishnu's thigh. And then he claws his heart out with his claws. So, it's not a known weapon. Yeah. And he does this at exactly a dusk when it is neither morning, day or night. Shalini: Sandhyakaal!Neha: Yeah, sandhyakaal, like the mixing when it's neither day nor night. So, he finds that exact combination that will defeat that very ingenious boon. And that's how, you know, Hiranyakashipu is defeated. Finally, Prahlad gets to witness his Ishta in the raw form, and he is blessed. And then Prahlad takes over the throne and continues the lineage of Sage Kashyap going forward. So, that Holika moment. Shalini: You said the story so beautifully.Neha: Awww! Thank you!Rekha: Nehaji, I love the part where the puzzle gets solved. I can see how kids can get absolutely fascinated by this, you know, if parents can just tell their kids, you give this puzzle; even if your kid doesn't know the story but tries to solve this puzzle.“Neither during the day nor night”. I mean, it's just too beautiful.Neha: It's ingenious. Yeah, absolutely. And see, the moral of the story is right, like you can, first of all, like I always wonder these people, they put hundreds of years of sadhana or many lifetimes of sadhana to get a boon from their Ishta, right? Like imagine, you're sitting in extreme penance, like Ravana's penance and then Hiranyakashipu's penance is not ordinary. This is like almost hundreds of years of extreme penance, even thousands of years by some accounts. They sit and you ask for such a stupid thing. I mean, your Ishta is standing in front of you deviate and you ask that you should not be killed. Why is that? I think that shows the nature of who we call demon is not by birth or lineage, you know, these are Kashyap rishi's sons, like these are the most exalted lineage you can find in all of Bharat Varsha. And that is evident because they have the capability to do this penance for eons. This is not ordinary feat in itself and the lineage is definitely blessed. So it's not by birth or by previous or whatever is the other ways of people understanding it. It's not about descent, it's not about race, it's not about caste, it's not about all of these things. It's about what you do with your abilities, right? What are your desires? Shalini:Yeah, absolutely. That is true.Neha: Yeah, as a Devi upasaka, when Ma comes to me and I ask something so stupid, I think like, you know, I should be banned from sadhana… do that if somebody does things like this. But you know, devatas are when they're happy, they're happy, they will give you what they want as long as it's within - as long as it doesn't defy the laws of nature. And so you can find several stories where Brahma is giving boons or Ma is giving boons or you know, Shiva is giving boons and these, depending on who is getting the boons, people do different things.Rekha: I'd like to bring up one point here. You live in the US. And I know that about three years ago, just pre-COVID, there was this thing in US universities about Holi against Hindutva, where Holika was painted as a Dalit woman. And you know, many people tried to spread this rumor in colleges that there's something very bad going on when Holika is burnt because she is an oppressed woman and she's a Dalit. And so I know that a lot of Indian children got swayed by this. I'd like you to weigh in on this because..Neha: yeah, absolutely. So actually, with the exact incident you're talking about, led me to write a two-part article on Holi on Shaktitva blog. The part where I explain what Holi is and the many colors of Holi is one article. And then there is a second article called “Let the Subaltern Speak”, in which I kind of explore exactly this point. So first of all, like logically speaking, you know, a lot of these claims are absurd to the point of ignorance. Like they, they rely on the fact that a lot of people don't know about these stories and the legends or all the meanings behind what we do as a culture. And that's part of colonialism, you know, just detaching us from our roots is definitely part of the colonial projects.So that now that, you know, the urban audience has already detached very few know the story of Holika or why we do this, you can twist the argument in your favor.So there are two main articles that led to this Equality Labs protest that were challenged by it. So basically this Equality Labs organization cited two main articles in their write up for Holi against Hindutva. One of them was from Pradnya Waghule, which said ‘Reading caste in Holi- the burning of Holika, a Bahujan woman'. And the second one is the Equality Labs, its own article, ‘why do we say no to Holi' In both of them, you know, I am not going to critique the whole blog, because it's ridiculous. But you can see a very clear indication that this is nothing but Hinduphobia. So Waghule herself says that she's only only ever lived in cities all her life. Right. So the what I'm trying the reason I'm trying to highlight that is because she has no in-first person knowledge of these traditions. Right. Whereas, you know, most of our families are just two generations ago, we were living in villages. So that's number one. Now this reading of Bahujan woman of Holika - Holika's existence comes from this story that I told you about. She is Hiranyakashipu's sister. Hiranya Kashyapu and Hiranyaksha are very clearly Kashyap Rishi's sons. So Kashyap Rishi is like, you know, one of the Saptarishis. So obviously he's the ultra ultra Brahmin, not even ordinary normal Shukla chukla or, you know, Pandya Brahmin is the ultra Brahmin, like he has an entire Gotra named after him.And he these are the first one, not first one, but he is like, yeah, these two are sons from Kashyap Rishi. So by caste, essentially, because it's a paternalistic tradition, it happens, they have become Brahmin. And so Holika is a sister. So that means she's a Brahmin woman, you know, by legend, which is where she's mentioned. Now, what the reality is, these people when they're mentioning these instances of Holika being worshipped in tribal areas, they are confusing Holika and Holi Mata. Now, Holi Mata is indeed worshipped in many parts of the country in many, many tribal traditions, including my hometown. Now, Holi Mata has nothing to do with Holika.What happens is many of us, many of our tribes are traditionally like the Kula Devi is a Devi, right? The Kula devatha is a Devi. And so usually anything auspicious, Devi has to be worshipped. So when you do that, and usually what the tradition goes that in specific instances, for example, if you're doing the Gauri Pooja, a specific form of Ma is being worshipped, that's why it's called Gauri Pooja. So in the same way, during Holi Mata, a specific form of Ma is being worshipped and a specific type of worship is being done, that ritual only happens around Holi. And that includes your offering, the same colors are offered, new clothes are offered, when the dahan is done, that bonfire is done, a part of that bonfire, ashes are brought to the Mata and so on. So like in the Prasad, this Naivedyam is first created. So that's why we make gujiya after the dahan, and then gujiya is first offered to the god. So if we were in the villages, we would offer it to the Kula Devi. And then eventually it will be distributed. So for that particular purpose, a Murti or a makeshift clay idol is created. And all of the village will gather around and offer the blessings over there, like they'll put the offerings in that on the clay idol.So that is that clay idol is called Holi Mata. So now confusing Holimata with Holika is silly because the same people also do the bonfire. So why would they do the bonfire if they were worshipping Holika later? Then why would you celebrate her death? Just two minutes before! They are not related. Now in other parts of India, you can actually see that Holimata, that makeshift idol, is also taken on a Yatra like Ganesh Chaturthi. So they also, the Visarjan happens and so on, like the same process, which is typical for us, like whenever we have a makeshift idol like in Ganesh Chaturthi or in Durga Puja, once the process is completed, it is done - Visarjan into some form of water body. So that also happens. So those processions will chant Holi Mata Ki Jai or something like that. And that's what these urbanites who actually want to speak for the subaltern without getting to know them, without getting to live their lives or understanding their tradition and faith systems, this is how they confuse people. So in this imagination, because she is the goddess of the tribal people, she becomes a tribal deity because they've already confused it and they're not familiar with these ideas of how Holi Mata is constructed, like on a makeshift thing and all of those nuances are not known. And so they will do this confusion and then they will suddenly Holika, the daughter of Kashyap rishi becomes the Dalit woman all of a sudden. And now nobody from the Bahujan parts of India is coming to read this English language article meant to be circulated in USA to correct it, right? Nobody's going to do that. And so and the rest of you are saying we hardly know anything about why things are happening. So we are not also correcting it. So that's how you get to circulate these, you know, false narratives. And it was actually very offensive, because targeting Holi like that. And here is the thing, you know, if you are, let's say, even if I were to imagine this concept of Brahminical Hinduism versus non-Brahminical, Brahminical tribal Hinduism, Holi is the least Brahminical of all, you know, celebrations of Hindus. Like, you know, if you see the typical hallmarks of what is what, how these people define Brahminism is - at least a Brahmin needs to be present, no? Usually all some festivals you require a priest to come and do some puja, but Holi requires the presence of no priest. Right. As I mentioned, in fact, it's a challenging of social norms and mores.Then the tradition inquires, like it requires no particular, like you usually offer it to your own gods, your own deities and a Kula Devi. But it does not require any elaborate temple visit or anything like that. Right. So how, why would, you know, if this were to be confused, check, if we were to put it in these two arbitrary criteria of Brahminical versus non-Brahminical, this is very fundamentally indigenous tribal and adivasi in origins. Right. So, so the entire basis of attacking an indigenous authentic tribal festival, which is like, in fact, one of the biggest festival for many tribes in India as a, you know, fascist thing and trying to disparage it this way and especially targeting American universities is insidious to say the least.Now, are we saying that Vedic traditions are not uninhibited? They are not, you know, connected to Mata or they are not connected to Kula Devi? No, it's a beautiful spectrum. Right.How, what happens now in a traditional, let's say, let's find a simple example in a traditional homa. Right. If you're doing Rudrabhishekam in your home and you are the Yajman and pundits have come and they're conducting it for you. What happens? Right. The starting is you'll do the cleaning of your hands. You'll remember Sri Vishnu for that. Right. Then you will start by remembering your Guru, your ancestors, your Kula Devi and Sri Ganesha. Right. Not, I messed up the order, but basically this is the, like, start with Sri Ganesha, then your Kula Devi, then your ancestors, your Guru. This is the beginning of every homa, every puja, everywhere.Right. Now, if you had, if you were in living in a place where you had access to your Kula Devi's murti, maybe you put it in your temple or maybe you are living in a place where your Kula Devi temple is nearby and that's where you're conducting it. When you are remembering them, it will involve an offering to them immediately. And this will be guided to you by the priest himself. Right. So he's not, there is no distinction between vedic gods and these gods, right.It's a beautiful spectrum. One cannot exist without the other. So the, now, whether you're reading it from the Shastras or the Puranas or you're telling folk stories, it does not matter. Right. That's just the ritual or how should I say levels of ritualism. If you were to do it at your home by yourself, you probably don't know all the Sanskrit verses. So you do it in your mind. Right. You remember the deity and you have, maybe you have a mantra or maybe you don't have a mantra. Maybe you have a Chalisa. For example, in North India, we have these avadhi verses, which serve as the mantras. So Chalisa is our collection of 40 verses or you have sometimes, you know, these, these arathis, for example, these songs that we have constructed for the singing the legends of our gods, Om Jai Jagdish hare being the most prominent one. So we have all of these different levels and ways of worship. Now, some people do it in a very elaborate way where sometimes you need a priest because it's actually too elaborate and it's not possible for some unless somebody is trained in that ritual for tens of years, which is what often priests do. It's hard for a normal householder to start doing it without training. And also it's not recommended to do it without training either. So depending on the level you're doing, for example, in Shivaratri that just passed, most people will do it in their homes. Right. If they have a lingam at home, they will do a simple Abhishekam at home. If they have, if they're going to a temple, then they'll, you know, put money for a Rudrabhishekam for the temple priests to conduct it. Or sometimes people will arrange for a priest to come and do a homa at their home. It's different levels of the same festival. All of them are valid. All of them are common.Rekha: So Neha Ji, you brought up this very, very important point of two traditions coexisting harmoniously. The universal story, the Pauranic story of Holika dahan, the Hiranyakashipu story, and also the Holi Mata Kuladevi local traditions, which are typically known as the Desi and the Margi traditions within Sanatana Dharma. So the interesting thing is that there is really no conflict. And this thing happens over and over again in our tradition, right, with the festivals, with customs, dance, music, and so many things. And I'd like to say here that I think this is not a bug, but a feature of Sanatana Dharma. Any thoughts on this?Neha: Thank you for that software engineering reference. And you're absolutely right. No, so exactly right. So I think, you know, sometimes I find myself browsing through an article that some colonial, you know, neo-colonial Indologist wrote, and they seem so confused, right? If you read the research papers that get published in Indology journals, they are just, you know, it's like it's impossible for them to parse the continuity of this tradition. So sometimes they will be looking at, you know, let's say they'll go to a rural Kuladevi Mandir, right? And they'll see, let's take for an extreme example, let's say they'll see a Bali ritual, right? And then a few, even in Tamil Nadu, let's just take the example of Tamil Nadu. If you go to the rural villages, there are still like some Kuladevi Kuladevata temples where Bali happens, you know, now with the colonial government banning it and then our modern government continuing colonial traditions, you know, officially it's banned, but still happens. Then you cross- Shalini: I think there is a temple in Kerala also, no? The Muthappan temple. Neha: Not just one, not just one temple. Shalini: Yeah, many, many temples.Neha: A lot of places where you have to secretly do this because, you know, our own government has turned against our traditions or, you know, some places where it's relatively open, but it happens. And then you cross a few kilometers and you come to the heart of, you know, say Chennai and you go to a Vaishnava temple or a Shaiva temple, like, you know, Iyengar temple or an Iyer temple and you're suddenly like, this is like very organized, you know, we have a lot of learned gurus who have given like volumes and volumes of very detailed documentary, like documented evidence of everything that they found. And, you know, somehow for these people who come from the West, it looks like these two traditions cannot coexist each other with each other. And the reason they think that is because they're bound with this Christian mentality, where paganism, which was a pre-Christian tradition of their lands, was considered or labeled as backward and, you know, not civilized by the Christians who came to dominate the space later on. So they see, you know, nature worship as uncouth, uncivilized or, you know, the thing that uneducated people do. And this has also been indoctrinated to us in our education, right? Because our education is also colonial. So every time like you have, I'm sure you have read somewhere that, you know, even in our own books that the people, ancient people worshiped Sun because they did not understand its power, right? And so the idea is that the only reason you worship something is because you don't understand it. And so it becomes a myth. And so therefore science becomes a way to dispelling that myth. And, you know, Christianity brought us to the light. And so the old gods lost the power. This is all very, very standard European Christian commentary. This is how they understand their own past. And their present, which is Christian and then eventually post-Christian. So now they use that same..Shalini: So they project that on our system.Neha: Exactly, exactly. So they project that on our system. Because for them, when they look at, say, Kanchi matham, right, it looks very organized. It looks a little bit centralized. The priests over there are learned. They talk in, you know, high philosophy. And so on, and they can, you know, hold themselves up to any debate. They are, you know, they're experts in science, math, whatever you want them to be. And so this is like, you know, high philosophy is revered, revered as, exalted culture, more civil. And so they see reflections of their Orthodox church in this. And then they look, few villages down, they look at the common villager, who is, you know, just showing pure Bhakti to the Devi. He is also following Tantra. Here is the thing, right, even these temples, the Kula Devi temples are also established as per Agama Tantra. So these, these are still very much rituals that have been told to us, passed down generations of generations through sadhakas, through practical, practical knowledge, right? But because in, in these, to these external observers, it does not appear connected, you know, because unless you are completely disconnected and you're doing some high-falutin philosophy, you're not like, you know, learned enough. So you have to talk in abstract. Suddenly, when you translate that to actual rituals, it becomes old and childish and, and, you know, superstitious and what not. So this dichotomy from their own society, they project on ours. And that's exactly what happens when they look at these traditions.So when they look at the grama traditions, and here is the thing, Dharma clearly says there are many, many acharams, right? There is Vedachar and there is Lokachar, right? And there is not, it is not like a hierarchy. It is not like Vedachar is better than Lokachar. Both are absolutely important. And it is the context that defines which, you know, acharam has to be used and in which circumstance. And so this is, you know, these, all of these interconnectedness is only understood, a lot of this, like even you and I, a lot of us understand this implicitly because we've grown up in this tradition. And, you know, one basic requirement of Indology is that if you've grown up in the tradition, then you're not qualified to speak on it. Because that's the, again, the colonial lens, right? Like, if you're a brown person, you can't possibly be objective in to look at your tradition correctly. Of course, white people can look at white, white culture correctly, but brown people, you know, we have some racial defect. And that's why we can never be objective about our culture unless we prove it to them by proving our atheism first.So all of this, you know, this is a very clever structure created so that their lens remains dominant. So even when a brown person enters these, you know, these academic institutions, you have to prove that your way of thinking has been whitened enough. And that is why they are completely unable to understand these traditions and the beauty of this, this continuity of this tradition, right? Like tantra, whether it's Agama Tantra or Dakshinacharya Tantra or whatever kind of Tantra is learned knowledge. It's practical learned knowledge, like some, you know, great upasaka did years and years and decades of sadhana, found like a point where equally in fact, it is said that there are many Tantric upasakas who have reached a stage where they can access their past lives upasana also. So all of the things that they learned in their past lives, they can collect, remember all of those memories, right? And then they have a bigger picture. And then they try to bring that bigger picture and they try to give you the rules of how to do that for yourself, right? Like they can't just disseminate the secret, you won't understand. So you have to kind of just, they can only show you a path that doing these things in this particular order through this method will lead you somewhere where you can see the truth for yourself.That's Tantra, right? So that's the marg, that's the path that has been given to you. Now it may or may not, Tantra basically distills all of this down to a process. Whereas the Vedanta and other Darshanas, they are more focused on the philosophical end goal. So there is a little bit more philosophy associated with these other paths and less with Tantra, but that does not make these local understanding that we have learned over and built up over generations and generations less valuable, right? And that is exactly how every Indigenous culture has it, right? There is a reason why North American Indigenous people and even Africans, they had so much importance to the elders, right? To the ancient ones, the wisdom of the elders.Why was it valued? It wasn't just a quality of age, that wisdom followed from generation to generation. It was imparted by the ancestors to their future generations when the people felt ready.Rekha: Now this dichotomy, maybe you can analyze the visuals of Holi using this dichotomy too, right? Because Holi being so colorful and so visually appealing, I do know that a lot of photographers converge on Vrindavan just to take photographs of this spectacle and then publish it across the world. But I think a lot of this dichotomy comes into play there also and it has been commercialized quite a bit is what I hear. Neha: Oh absolutely. So you know, the dominant image in the mind of the West is when you are civilized, when you are wise, you are not, you behave a certain way, right? Like, you know, how British were, you were all stuck up and then you know, you behave like you have to act proper and whatever. And so if you're not doing that, right? If you're literally just having fun, that's lack of civilization, right? Lack of civility. And we've learned that even in our minds, we have at some point integrated that.So if somebody is behaving like they're just very, you know, acting very demure and very, you know, quiet and not letting their emotions out, all of that is a mark of manners or civility. And every time you let your hair down and like if you're angry, you're yelling, if you're, you know, happy, you're laughing boldly, all of that is, is, you know, lack of, you know, decorum. So we've learned those behaviors. Rekha: Nehaji, we often see pictures from Mathura and Vrindavan for Holi. Yeah. So is this like the center where it all started and what kind of celebrations are usually done in these places? Neha: Oh, actually, I mean, I don't know if it started there, but it's definitely a very important focal point of the Holi traditions in North India. And the part of the reason is because all of when you, when you listen to Shri Krishna's Rasleela stories, Holi actually plays a very interesting part there. In fact, it comes, the reference comes from his Balakanda to the time he is doing the Rasleela. Yeah. So in fact, because Krishna's birthplace and place where he grew up, are so central to the areas around Mathura, so Mathura, Vrindavan and NandGaon and all of these, they are very, you know, they celebrate the Krishna connection also during those Holi celebrations. So, in fact, when Vrindavan Holi is so very, very famous, in fact, if you just Google it as a most, you know, the most of the Westerners are fascinated by this particular Holi celebration. And I even know of people who try to visit Mathura specifically just to witness the Holi. And so it's actually fairly elaborate. And one of the, this is actually worth mentioning, Vrindavan's Holi lasts for seven days. And just the color playing part. So like the playing part lasts seven days. Everywhere else, we have one day of Holika Dahan, which is the bonfire ritual, and the next day is the playing colors part. But Vrindavan, the thing goes on for a week. And the first Holi in that day is called Laatmaar Holi, right, and translates to being beaten by a stick Holi. And there is, there is actually a legend behind it. So what happened is, it's part of Rasleela stories of Sri Krishna. So Sri Krishna, who hailed it from Nandgaon, he was visiting Radha in Barsana, which is where she used to live. So he was visiting her. Radha and her friends in Barsana on Holi. And he teased Radha and the other gopis so much, right, that they got really annoyed and they started hitting him, him and his friends with a stick and they chased him out of the city. So it's part of the whole like the Rasleela, the play, and he used to be like a notorious prankster, right. So you would run away with the clothes and whatnot. So he was here teasing them and playing pranks on them a lot. And so they got very annoyed. And so they chased him out of the city. So in sync with that legend, now men from Nandgaon will visit Barsana every year, you know, being acting like their Krishna story. And then the Barsana women will basically beat them up with lathis.Shalini: It happens to this day? It happens to this day?Neha: Exactly. So in fact, now this tradition has spread outside Barsana also, in many places they do this. But that is the, that is the role play that's happening, right. So they are Krishna's friends, the men act like Krishna's friends visiting the gopis and the women act like the women of Barsana act like they are the gopis. And so they basically, you know, reenact that scene. And this especially happens outside the Radharani temple in Barsana, like that's the specific part. And this is one of the most famous temples dedicated to Radha Ma in India. And then obviously you sing and dance and you know, we are very happy people. We drink thandai and all sorts of sweets are eaten and nuts and all of that fun stuff happens. But then one of the other days is Phoolon wali Holi where you play with flowers. Then there is another day where the people play with mud. It's not pleasant but it happens. And then the actual colors Holi. And in fact, Shalini: That makes it for three more. Three, four, one is flowers, one is the mud. Neha: Yeah. And one is colors four and I think the three more. Yeah, I don't remember exactly.Shalini: But these are very interesting, very interesting. Rekha: But but at the same time, there is a lot of shock value or, you know, some kind of an intrinsic value in all these visuals, right? You do see international media using a lot of the Holi and then, you know, coming to something like the widows of Vrindavan. You see that every year the media puts these very nice colorful pictures which I believe are actually sold by the international media. INeha: In fact, it's big, it's big money. Like a right picture can the copyrights can be translated throughout the world and it can actually make like quite a decent sum. So photographers from around the world gather around and then the, you know, they will just take captionless photos. And then the caption is added by the whoever is looking at the picture. So actually, you brought the brought up widows of Vrindavan. I actually have a Twitter thread where I analyze this! Ever since I joined Twitter. This was 2009. I've been noticing these headlines, right? “Widows of Vrindavan break taboo, break tradition and celebrate Holi!”. Now I actually did an analysis. I just take this phrase “widows of Vrindavan play Holi” and I append a year to it, right? And you can see these stories coming back from all the way up to 2012. So it's been 10 years and every year apparently, those widows break tradition and celebrate Holi and, you know, they break taboo and celebrate Holi. Every year they will announce it as if it's a new thing. So that just makes you question, was that ever a taboo in the first place or is just a myth that media has created that they just like to break because it's a catchy headline? Well, so this is absolutely like it makes a lot of money and from you can find those articles from, you know, they get sent through those news agencies like ANI and then they republished internationally. It's big money. Some of those photos can actually fetch you a very pretty penny, especially like there's so many aerial shots of those of Vrindavan Holi too these days, a lot of them like so. In fact, if you go to during Holi time, if you go to Vrindavan, you'll see a flock of international photographers over there just trying to get those pictures. Rekha: No concerns of privacy? I mean, I'm just wondering for the western world is so big on privacy, but is there no compunction in you know, preying on somebody's personal space. Neha: I very much doubt that they get these contracts like the privacy waiver signed. Exactly.Rekha: You know, let's talk a little bit about the colors. So these colors, there are some typical colors that are used predominantly. I see most of the people using a kind of a magenta color. Neha: So yes, so that pink is very common. The most common probably is pink. And then yellow is very common. Then nowadays, so almost every color on the spectrum, you can find you can find like light blue, powder blues. And even these days, pastels have come into fad. Also organic colors are appearing nowadays. This is interesting.Rekha: This is an interesting variation. So initially, I think we didn't need an organic color because because obviously all color was organic. Flowers and herbs is what I hear. And that specific bright colors that were made from the powder of certain dried flowers. Is that right?Neha: Yes, exactly. So the yellow was actually a mix of turmeric and marigold. And I don't remember the pink came also from a flower. But these days, so they could become a much brighter pink, at least that's what my nani used to say. But yeah, the definitely some colors are more predominant. Although nowadays, again, most of it is made being manufactured in factories. So you get pretty much every color there is. Shalini: Yeah, there's so much of talk about these being chemical colors and not very good for the skin and all. How much truth is there in that?Neha: growing up, I did have at least some like at least for a couple of years, there definitely was some sort of adulterated color coming into the market that was harsh on the skin. But these days, people are like too aware and especially depending on, but here is the thing, you can't control what color gets put on you. You can buy good colors. But then if somebody else buys whatever colors, then you're at the mercy of that person. But again, I think like cheaper colors as usual, you'll find some adulteration there. But mostly nowadays, there are big companies, just like the fireworks for Diwali, there are big companies dedicated to doing this. So if you buy like those brands or if you make at home, sometimes I've seen people starting to make themselves by grinding flowers. So those options are also there. But you find like very easy to find safe colors, to be honest.Shalini: Okay, so now you play with these colors, what do you do to take them off?Neha: That is this mystery thing called Ubtan. Yeah, I'm glad that you asked about removing the colors. So that's a whole entire exercise in itself. So basically, we make this very gooey paste made of all organic elements found at home. So you take either besan, which is ground chickpea flour, or you take wheat flour, your regular aata, and you mix haldi in it. And you put like turmeric, and you put oil, and you put water. Now, it should be a little bit more on the watery side, because you want it to be sticky. But the oil is there so that it removes well also, like when it comes up, all of it should come off. But if you have less oil, then it won't stick long enough. So the point is that you stick, and it's also used during the wedding ceremonies, by the way, after Haldi. So when you do the Haldi ceremony, it's actually Haldi and oil ceremony. So one round is done with Haldi, one round is done with oil, and then Ubtan is applied. And so the Haldi is, etc., is taken off by the Ubtan. And the idea is that obviously, it's very good for your skin, because putting turmeric is very, very nourishing for the skin. But also that consistency of the Ubtan, it brings out all the impurities of the skin. So in this case, that being colors. So colors come off very nicely with Ubtan, for the most part, unless you're, I'm talking about those my naughty cousins who actually pour that nasty chemical thing on my head, those ones don't come out easily. But the powder ones come off very easily, like with Ubtan, you know, between Ubtan and shower are fully covered, like you won't even, people won't even realize that you played Holi. Shalini: Okay, so I was just going to ask about that, you know, does it go in one day or it takes a few days to get rid of these colors? Again, powder? I can work with remnants of the color, you know, at the next day, it's not all good. Rekha: I call it a post-Holi glow, you know, you can always pick that on people. Neha: 100% there is a post-Holi glow, because you're so tired and you're so happy and you're so well fed by the end of this all, that you know, there's a post-Holi glow. But, but jokes aside, honestly, if you're playing only with powder or even with like, you know, diluted colors mixed in water, all of it comes out in one day for the most part. Unless you've been pranked with the thing on your head, then it will take a while. But I actually remember one of my best friends in school, she had like, you know, normal brown hair, but it's a slightly lighter color than the complete black hair that we usually have. So her hair was slightly brownish. And one time she came back after playing Holi and I kid you not, when she stood in the sunlight, her hair looked pink. This when we were not allowed to color our hair, because we were young children back then. So I think you got like a free hair color when there's not a lot of costs involved. But just things like that happen. Again, it completely depends on like the kind of Holi you play and you know, the type of people that, you know, come to your place to play with you. But for the most part, like, powder color 100% comes off with Ubtan. And it's also very good for your skin. So any kind of this harsh chemical or whatever, right? Like if you do the Ubtan treatment afterwards, it also kind of takes care of that. Like, and as I said early on, you have to be careful and put oil before you go out. And that way it will stain on your skin less if you have oil on your skin. Yeah, so for the most part, it comes out. Rekha: This is insider information.Neha: Absolutely. Shalini: So what a rollicking time we've had, you know, but I think now, I think you should speak about your foundation, Nehaji. What prompted you to start the foundation? What do you do? What are your projects, please? Neha: Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's a Shaktitva Foundation is a labor of love. It started around 2018, had to slow it down a couple for the last couple of years because of COVID and, you know, bereavement and family. But essentially, the original idea behind it, it's a decolonial, indigenous, feminist organization. And what I mean by that and this decoloniality and indigeneity approach from a Hindu perspective. So what essentially that means is this actually started around the same time when Shalini Ji you and I met for the first time. This was like the aftermath of Sabarimala. And, you know, we, I'm sure like all three of us were part of it in some way or the other. But one thing that became very obvious in the aftermath or during the Sabarimala protest for all of us Hindu women was that somehow our voice was being erased, right? This entire war was being fought in our name, right? Suddenly it was a Hindus versus women, you know, and the Hindu women were the least heard of all people. If you remember, like we were not allowed on TV debate, we were not, our opinions were considered, you know, fringe by some exactly some miracle, like, you know, majority of women were suddenly fringe. Anybody who basically did not agree with the five feminists of Delhi was fringe, right? So that that erasure is what led to the frustration that eventually led to the inspiration from my calling this Shaktitva Foundation. So the idea was that, you know, our voices need to have a place and not just the voice of a Hindu woman in India, but also this, the immigrant Hindu woman in growing up in America, right, or living in America. And the same thing that you know, because what happens is if we don't speak up, somebody else takes the mic and starts speaking for us, right? Whether we are the subaltern and whether we are an unrepresented group, if people don't speak up for their own groups, their names are misused and, you know, activists kind of take up that mantle of speaking on behalf of us, even if that is not the majority opinion, or even they forget the majority opinion, even if it is not even a minority opinion, then this will happen. And so we wanted to kind of set up a space where we can bring forth the lived experiences of a Hindu woman from the point of view of what we just did, right? Like we were talking about Holi from the lived experience of a person who has participated in it. And not just that, it's not just isolated to my personal experience, but also I try to kind of dive into the, when we do the research. If you see, a lot of people actually write for us, the articles and the work that we do focuses on bringing forth the original, authentic, indigenous meaning behind the things. And the reason is India and by extension, the South Asian activism circles is full of people who almost are kind of like the people who have been left behind by the colonialists, right? It's almost that they wanted to be taken with them, you know, ‘why did you leave us behind' sort of frustration that you see in these activists. And so they look at every time they sort of create this, you know, unnecessary rift in the society, it's because they're looking at things from a colonial lens, whether it is they're getting angry at Sabarimala tradition or it's not a concern for women that led to the creation of that controversy, right? It was that, you know, it is a colonial view. We must so that the colonial white man saviourism has appointed these brown saviours. And so they're now going to save Hinduism from Hindus, essentially. That's what's happening. So they're taking up for that, that colonial mantle of reform, and they're imposing all of these ideas on us in order to get some name and fame and they become those these heroes of who saved the women from oppressive Hinduism and so on. So whether it's the Sabarimala question, whether it is the Jallikattu again, no concern for actual animals or anything like that, whether it's the elephant controversy or whether it's in North India, the Kavadia controversy. Now they'll say these are rowdy men. Kavadiya men in Kavadia is the same when they become rowdy. 10 minutes later when farm laws happened, the same men who were actually doing Kavadia minutes before these are the oppressed category of farmers.So there is no rhyme or reason to it. So exactly that the point was that, you know, we wanted to create a space where Hindu women could find their voice and essentially take up that narrative and clear it up from their side. So we do a whole host of things. There's one is very important aspect is research driven articles like this one on Holi. I've done another one on Rakshabandhan and there's many more that are coming, not just on festivals, we also do on general issues and so on. And there is the other aspect of on-the-ground activism where we sort of try to help groups. So for example, we did a workshop with Bhutanese Hindu refugees who are living in America, especially the kids. And we did a workshop there about Dharma and specifically with the girls, about menstruation because menstruation is - like the menstrual restrictions are very strictly followed in Nepali and Bhutanese communities. And that becomes a very important propaganda point for missionaries to try to convert these kids. So we wanted to present the honest truth of why these rituals exist, like why are these menstrual restrictions are at all present in the culture and what are the significance, not prescribing them or, you know, or denying them, just presenting the truth of it. After that, it's up to you. Like as is always the case in Dharma. And similarly, we also did a project for to focus on the domestic violence survivors, Indian origin domestic violence survivors in America.That so we're trying to sort of create a space where we can dispel the fake issues and focus on the real issues and essentially, you know, move forward with that mindset.Shalini: So is this an initiative only driven only by you or is are you a team of a few people?Neha: No, we are a team of we're a team of a few people. We have few directors and after that, there is an advisory board. So the details can be found that also volunteers that work at different levels. Some of them are, for example, interested in conducting those workshops that I spoke about in their areas for a specific group. So we sort of arm them with the content and we help them and train those volunteers for those spaces. There's also like several other projects that are in the works just COVID kind of, you know, through a wrench and all of them. But but we're trying to sort of bring it up again. Hopefully this year, you should see a lot more action.Shalini: Sure. This sounds very empowering and well, such a misused word, but for lack of a better word, empowering our own women, you know, Neha: So we'll actually, I'll actually end with the quote. somehow it dawned on me while I was sitting in Sadhana. You know, I said, Hindu women are embodiments of Shakti and you do not empower Shakti, you bow before it. So that's why the name is Shaktitva, which is the essence of being Shakti. Now, this is not to be construed with this modern new agey idea of, you know, I am princess, I am a goddess type, you know, the wrong notions. No, we are talking about like a very sacred channeling of the divine energy that can happen when you are you know, when you are really devoted to your gods and your faith and to your culture and the indigeneity of it all. Like it's not, these terms almost seem to have become like negative terms, honestly, in the western space. But for, you know, as an indigenous person, it's all the same. It's a spectrum. These words are not disconnected at all. Rekha: Nehaji, I'm looking at your website. And there is a scheme, there is something called the Gayatri grants. Is that still operational? Is that something that can be used to encourage young people to write for you?Neha: Oh, absolutely. Yes. So Gayatri grants are not just even for writing. Even if there was a proposal that like that somebody wants to take up like a more elaborate research project towards anything, you know, towards something that brings together that aligns with the mission of Shaktitva. We are more than happy to sort of sponsor that activity because research itself, you know, is expensive. And, you know, so we want to encourage through this grant system, we want to encourage people to apply for, you know, proposals and come up with ideas because, as I said, like it's very difficult for one person to or a few people to cover the breadth of this issue. So if there is even if there's something very simple as you notice that there is a tradition that is unexplored, and it aligns with our mission, and you want to research it, you know, please submit a grant to us, grant proposal to us, the template is provided on the website. So you just have to fill that template up and send us a proposal and we'll evaluate it. And hopefully, like we can come up with a collaboration.Rekha: Can you tell us the name of the website for all the listeners? We will also be providing links to the website on our transcript. But can you just mention the name please?Neha: Yeah, it's Shaktitva.org. S-H-A-K-T-I, Shakti. And then, Shaktitva.org.Shalini: Great. Yeah, so I think we've had a one hell of a ride with you, Nehaji. It's been absolutely exhilarating, I would say. And I think this episode will not stay at 35, 40 minutes, but that's okay. But I think even our listeners will find it extremely engaging and beautiful too. So I think I'm absolutely floored by your quote. I would like you to end once more with the quote that you just mentioned and then we'll call it wraps. Neha: Absolutely. So the way we mentioned it is that Hindu women are embodiments of Shakti. You do not empower Shakti, you bow before it.Shalini: And with that, I think we come to the end of this edition of our podcast, and we will connect with our listeners in a fortnight's time. Thank you. Thank you, Nehaji. Thank you very much for spending so much time with us and giving us one grand experience of Holi. Thank you so much and thank you, Rekha, and we will meet with our listeners soon. Namaste. 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Ever wonder if the history you learned in school was true? Ever wonder if Hellen Keller and Anne Frank were real people? This podcast is for you! The walking Home team does a deep dive on the real truths behind Hellen Keller and Anne Frank leading us to talk about the MK Ultra mind control experiments. Listen to it all right here on The Walking Home Podcast! LOVE EVERYONE!!

This weeks episode of Walking Home we discuss the impending doom of the AI bots and if we really have anything to fear. We also get to talk about the way Elon Musk will run twitter and if the impacts will prove to be beneficial or detrimental to social medias role in society. Lastly we hit on the importance of voting NOVEMBER 8TH!!! Please make yourself heard and count your vote this is what we pay taxes to do! I love all of you guys and appreciate every little drop of support you guys have it keeps the podcast alive! LOVE EVERYONE!

The legendary Suvin Kanchi returns to the walking home podcast! We have a great discussion about a black mirror episode and the problems facing the future of society. Thanks for listening share with a friend and as always LOVE EVERYONE!!

Emma Natalya Stein's book Constructing Kanchi: City of Infinite Temples (Amsterdam UP, 2021) traces the emergence of the South Indian city of Kanchi as a major royal capital and multireligious pilgrimage destination during the era of the Pallava and Chola dynasties (circa seventh through thirteenth centuries). It presents the first-ever comprehensive picture of historical Kanchi, locating the city and its more than 100 spectacular Hindu temples at the heart of commercial and artistic exchange that spanned India, Southeast Asia, and China. Raj Balkaran is a scholar, online educator, and life coach. For information see rajbalkaran.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Emma Natalya Stein's book Constructing Kanchi: City of Infinite Temples (Amsterdam UP, 2021) traces the emergence of the South Indian city of Kanchi as a major royal capital and multireligious pilgrimage destination during the era of the Pallava and Chola dynasties (circa seventh through thirteenth centuries). It presents the first-ever comprehensive picture of historical Kanchi, locating the city and its more than 100 spectacular Hindu temples at the heart of commercial and artistic exchange that spanned India, Southeast Asia, and China. Raj Balkaran is a scholar, online educator, and life coach. For information see rajbalkaran.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

My great friend and first time Walking Home guest Suvin! On this episode i ask Suvin great questions about his life in an effort to shine a light on his upbringing and overall personality. I hope you guys are enjoying the podcast and enjoy learning about my amazing friend Suvin! I love each and every one of you and highly encourage you to LOVE EVERYONE!