POPULARITY
Categories
227 episodes with gpt
532 episodes with gpt
186 episodes with gpt
76 episodes with gpt
93 episodes with gpt
43 episodes with gpt
52 episodes with gpt
32 episodes with gpt
58 episodes with gpt
48 episodes with gpt
41 episodes with gpt
46 episodes with gpt
52 episodes with gpt
42 episodes with gpt
32 episodes with gpt
32 episodes with gpt
32 episodes with gpt
39 episodes with gpt
28 episodes with gpt
24 episodes with gpt
29 episodes with gpt
42 episodes with gpt
85 episodes with gpt
19 episodes with gpt
23 episodes with gpt
79 episodes with gpt
15 episodes with gpt
39 episodes with gpt
25 episodes with gpt
102 episodes with gpt
35 episodes with gpt
27 episodes with gpt
33 episodes with gpt
23 episodes with gpt
22 episodes with gpt
20 episodes with gpt
17 episodes with gpt
26 episodes with gpt
28 episodes with gpt
17 episodes with gpt
13 episodes with gpt
27 episodes with gpt
18 episodes with gpt
17 episodes with gpt
18 episodes with gpt
12 episodes with gpt
50 episodes with gpt
37 episodes with gpt
11 episodes with gpt
18 episodes with gpt
21 episodes with gpt
17 episodes with gpt
16 episodes with gpt
19 episodes with gpt
he podcast dives into the explosive advances in agentic AI, where developers and even Fortune 100 companies are racing to use powerful tools like Gastown, despite their unfinished and sometimes dangerous edges. If you thought ChatGPT was a revolution, wait until you hear how developers are orchestrating armies of AIs with real-world impact. Anthropic's Move Into Legal Is Sinking Data Services Stocks Data centers in space makes no sense The hitchhiker's guide to Musk's SpaceX memo Two kinds of AI users are emerging. The gap between them is astonishing. Does AI already have human-level intelligence? The evidence is clear - Nature OpenAI will retire several models, including GPT-4o, from ChatGPT next month Jensen Huang says Nvidia would love to back an OpenAI IPO, and there's 'no drama' with Sam Altman Firefox will soon let you block all of its generative AI features Salesforce signs $5.6B deal to inject agentic AI into the US Army HHS Is Making an AI Tool to Create Hypotheses About Vaccine Injury Claims French office of Elon Musk's X raided by Paris prosecutor's cybercrime unit An AI Toy Exposed 50K Logs of Its Chats With Kids To Anyone With a Gmail Account Darren Aronofsky's AI Studio Used Artificial Intelligence Tools for Revolutionary War Animated Series — but Hired Human Actors to Voice Founding Fathers Forget Hinge or Bumble. This App Promises a Personal AI Matchmaker Scientists Launch AI DinoTracker App That Identifies Dinosaur Footprints Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worlds Anthropic Takes Aim at OpenAI's ChatGPT in Super Bowl Ad Debut Move to Ban Social Media for Kids Gains Traction in Europe The Matrix Resurrections Is a Messy, Imperfect Triumph The Thatcher Effect and other Optical Toys Fascinating Research: AIs are highly inconsistent [i.e., random] when recommending brands or products Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Steve Yegge Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free audio and video feeds, a members-only Discord, and exclusive content. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT monarch.com with code IM zscaler.com/security helixsleep.com/machines
In this week's episode of the Rich Habits Podcast, Robert Croak and Austin Hankwitz answer your questions!---
he podcast dives into the explosive advances in agentic AI, where developers and even Fortune 100 companies are racing to use powerful tools like Gastown, despite their unfinished and sometimes dangerous edges. If you thought ChatGPT was a revolution, wait until you hear how developers are orchestrating armies of AIs with real-world impact. Anthropic's Move Into Legal Is Sinking Data Services Stocks Data centers in space makes no sense The hitchhiker's guide to Musk's SpaceX memo Two kinds of AI users are emerging. The gap between them is astonishing. Does AI already have human-level intelligence? The evidence is clear - Nature OpenAI will retire several models, including GPT-4o, from ChatGPT next month Jensen Huang says Nvidia would love to back an OpenAI IPO, and there's 'no drama' with Sam Altman Firefox will soon let you block all of its generative AI features Salesforce signs $5.6B deal to inject agentic AI into the US Army HHS Is Making an AI Tool to Create Hypotheses About Vaccine Injury Claims French office of Elon Musk's X raided by Paris prosecutor's cybercrime unit An AI Toy Exposed 50K Logs of Its Chats With Kids To Anyone With a Gmail Account Darren Aronofsky's AI Studio Used Artificial Intelligence Tools for Revolutionary War Animated Series — but Hired Human Actors to Voice Founding Fathers Forget Hinge or Bumble. This App Promises a Personal AI Matchmaker Scientists Launch AI DinoTracker App That Identifies Dinosaur Footprints Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worlds Anthropic Takes Aim at OpenAI's ChatGPT in Super Bowl Ad Debut Move to Ban Social Media for Kids Gains Traction in Europe The Matrix Resurrections Is a Messy, Imperfect Triumph The Thatcher Effect and other Optical Toys Fascinating Research: AIs are highly inconsistent [i.e., random] when recommending brands or products Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Steve Yegge Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free audio and video feeds, a members-only Discord, and exclusive content. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT monarch.com with code IM zscaler.com/security helixsleep.com/machines
he podcast dives into the explosive advances in agentic AI, where developers and even Fortune 100 companies are racing to use powerful tools like Gastown, despite their unfinished and sometimes dangerous edges. If you thought ChatGPT was a revolution, wait until you hear how developers are orchestrating armies of AIs with real-world impact. Anthropic's Move Into Legal Is Sinking Data Services Stocks Data centers in space makes no sense The hitchhiker's guide to Musk's SpaceX memo Two kinds of AI users are emerging. The gap between them is astonishing. Does AI already have human-level intelligence? The evidence is clear - Nature OpenAI will retire several models, including GPT-4o, from ChatGPT next month Jensen Huang says Nvidia would love to back an OpenAI IPO, and there's 'no drama' with Sam Altman Firefox will soon let you block all of its generative AI features Salesforce signs $5.6B deal to inject agentic AI into the US Army HHS Is Making an AI Tool to Create Hypotheses About Vaccine Injury Claims French office of Elon Musk's X raided by Paris prosecutor's cybercrime unit An AI Toy Exposed 50K Logs of Its Chats With Kids To Anyone With a Gmail Account Darren Aronofsky's AI Studio Used Artificial Intelligence Tools for Revolutionary War Animated Series — but Hired Human Actors to Voice Founding Fathers Forget Hinge or Bumble. This App Promises a Personal AI Matchmaker Scientists Launch AI DinoTracker App That Identifies Dinosaur Footprints Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worlds Anthropic Takes Aim at OpenAI's ChatGPT in Super Bowl Ad Debut Move to Ban Social Media for Kids Gains Traction in Europe The Matrix Resurrections Is a Messy, Imperfect Triumph The Thatcher Effect and other Optical Toys Fascinating Research: AIs are highly inconsistent [i.e., random] when recommending brands or products Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Steve Yegge Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free audio and video feeds, a members-only Discord, and exclusive content. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT monarch.com with code IM zscaler.com/security helixsleep.com/machines
he podcast dives into the explosive advances in agentic AI, where developers and even Fortune 100 companies are racing to use powerful tools like Gastown, despite their unfinished and sometimes dangerous edges. If you thought ChatGPT was a revolution, wait until you hear how developers are orchestrating armies of AIs with real-world impact. Anthropic's Move Into Legal Is Sinking Data Services Stocks Data centers in space makes no sense The hitchhiker's guide to Musk's SpaceX memo Two kinds of AI users are emerging. The gap between them is astonishing. Does AI already have human-level intelligence? The evidence is clear - Nature OpenAI will retire several models, including GPT-4o, from ChatGPT next month Jensen Huang says Nvidia would love to back an OpenAI IPO, and there's 'no drama' with Sam Altman Firefox will soon let you block all of its generative AI features Salesforce signs $5.6B deal to inject agentic AI into the US Army HHS Is Making an AI Tool to Create Hypotheses About Vaccine Injury Claims French office of Elon Musk's X raided by Paris prosecutor's cybercrime unit An AI Toy Exposed 50K Logs of Its Chats With Kids To Anyone With a Gmail Account Darren Aronofsky's AI Studio Used Artificial Intelligence Tools for Revolutionary War Animated Series — but Hired Human Actors to Voice Founding Fathers Forget Hinge or Bumble. This App Promises a Personal AI Matchmaker Scientists Launch AI DinoTracker App That Identifies Dinosaur Footprints Project Genie: Experimenting with infinite, interactive worlds Anthropic Takes Aim at OpenAI's ChatGPT in Super Bowl Ad Debut Move to Ban Social Media for Kids Gains Traction in Europe The Matrix Resurrections Is a Messy, Imperfect Triumph The Thatcher Effect and other Optical Toys Fascinating Research: AIs are highly inconsistent [i.e., random] when recommending brands or products Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau Guest: Steve Yegge Download or subscribe to Intelligent Machines at https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines. Join Club TWiT for Ad-Free Podcasts! Support what you love and get ad-free audio and video feeds, a members-only Discord, and exclusive content. Join today: https://twit.tv/clubtwit Sponsors: joindeleteme.com/twit promo code TWIT monarch.com with code IM zscaler.com/security helixsleep.com/machines
Special Guest: Jeremy Yang Welcome back to another episode of the Podcast Profits Unleashed Podcast, the show that helps entrepreneurs grow their business through podcasting—whether you're hosting your own show or showing up as a guest on others. I'm your host, Karen Roberts, and in today's episode, I'm joined by Jeremy Yang, a paid ads expert who manages over $450,000 in monthly ad spend across Google and Meta. He helps businesses grow fast by running smart, high-performing campaigns—and today, he's here to answer a big question: Can you actually use paid ads to grow your podcast? And more importantly, should you?
This episode features a fascinating conversation with Ashley Budd, Senior Marketing Director at Cornell University and the author of Mailed It. She has spent over a decade leading digital innovation in advancement, helping organizations connect authentically with audiences and raise funds for meaningful causes. Ashley shares her career journey from enrollment services to fundraising and explains how her work in digital marketing, mainly email marketing, became a key part of her success. She also talks about her first book on email marketing and her experience consulting and speaking with nonprofits and universities. A significant focus of the discussion is how digital marketing supports modern fundraising. Ashley explains why email remains powerful despite crowded inboxes, and how understanding human behavior and proven patterns leads to better results. She introduces a custom GPT tool she co-created to teach people how to write effective emails, emphasizing learning skills rather than depending on AI forever. The conversation also explores the balance between using AI tools and maintaining a human touch. Ashley highlights the importance of authenticity, consistency, and trust, introducing her "trust triangle" model of authenticity, empathy, and logic. She also discusses handling ghosting, managing unengaged audiences, adapting campaigns to changing conditions, and communicating during crises. In this episode, you will be able to: Understand how email marketing drives modern fundraising success. Discover the evolving partnership between humans and AI in communication. Learn how to write effective emails using proven behavioral patterns. Recognize the limits of AI tools and the need for human judgment. Apply authenticity, empathy, and logic to build audience trust. Balance quality and quantity in email communication. Handle unresponsive audiences with clarity and respect. Adapt campaigns to changing digital behavior and expectations. Respond confidently to crises while maintaining community trust. Access practical tools and resources to improve email performance. Get all the resources from today's episode here. Support for this show is brought to you by Practivated. Practivated delivers AI-powered donor conversation simulations that let fundraisers practice in a private, judgment‑free space—building confidence, refining messaging, and improving outcomes before the real conversation even begins. Developed by fundraising experts with real‑time coaching at its core, it's the smart way to walk into every donor interaction calm, prepared, and ready to connect. Learn more at practivated.com. Connect with me: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_malloryerickson/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/whatthefundraising YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@malloryerickson7946 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/mallory-erickson-bressler/ Website: malloryerickson.com/podcast Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-the-fundraising/id1575421652 If you haven't already, please visit our new What the Fundraising community forum. Check it out and join the conversation at this link. If you're looking to raise more from the right funders, then you'll want to check out my Power Partners Formula, a step-by-step approach to identifying the optimal partners for your organization. This free masterclass offers a great starting point.
Reformed Brotherhood | Sound Doctrine, Systematic Theology, and Brotherly Love
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse continue their deep dive into the Parable of the Prodigal Son by examining the often-overlooked character of the elder brother. While the younger son's rebellion is obvious, the elder brother's self-righteous moralism represents a more subtle—and perhaps more dangerous—form of lostness. Through careful exegesis of Luke 15:25-32, the hosts explore how religious performance, resentment of grace, and merit-based thinking can keep us far from the Father's heart even while we remain close to the Father's house. This conversation challenges listeners to examine their own hearts for traces of elder brother theology and calls us to celebrate the scandalous grace that restores sinners to sonship. Key Takeaways Two ways to be lost: The parable presents both flagrant rebellion (the younger son) and respectable self-righteousness (the elder son) as forms of spiritual lostness that require God's grace. The elder brother's geographic and spiritual position: Though physically near the house and faithful in service, the elder brother was spiritually distant from the father's heart, unable to celebrate grace extended to others. Moralism as a subtle distance: Self-righteous religion can be more deceptive than open rebellion because it appears virtuous while actually rejecting the father's character and values. The father pursues both sons: God's gracious pursuit extends not only to the openly rebellious but also to the self-righteous, demonstrating that election and grace are sovereign gifts, not earned rewards. The unresolved ending: The parable intentionally leaves the elder brother's response unstated, creating narrative tension that challenges the original audience (Pharisees and scribes) and modern readers to examine their own response to grace. Adoption as the frame of obedience: True Christian obedience flows from sonship and inheritance ("all that I have is yours"), not from a wage-earning, transactional relationship with God. Resentment reveals our theology: When we find ourselves unable to celebrate the restoration of repentant sinners, we expose our own need for repentance—not from scandal, but from envy and pride. Key Concepts The Elder Brother's Subtle Lostness The genius of Jesus' parable is that it exposes a form of lostness that religious people rarely recognize in themselves. The elder brother never left home, never squandered his inheritance, and never violated explicit commands. Yet his response to his brother's restoration reveals a heart fundamentally opposed to the father's character. His complaint—"I have served you all these years and never disobeyed your command"—demonstrates that he viewed his relationship with the father transactionally, as an employer-employee arrangement rather than a father-son bond. This is the essence of legalism: performing religious duties while remaining distant from God's heart. The tragedy is that the elder brother stood within reach of everything the father had to offer yet experienced none of the joy, fellowship, or security of sonship. This form of lostness is particularly dangerous because it wears the mask of righteousness and often goes undetected until grace is extended to someone we deem less deserving. The Father's Gracious Pursuit of the Self-Righteous Just as the father ran to meet the returning younger son, he also went out to plead with the elder brother to come into the feast. This detail is theologically significant: God pursues both the openly rebellious and the self-righteous with the same gracious initiative. The father's response to the elder brother's complaint is not harsh correction but tender invitation: "Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours." This reveals that the problem was never scarcity or the father's favoritism—the elder brother had always possessed full access to the father's resources and affection. The barrier was entirely on the son's side: his inability to receive sonship as a gift rather than a wage. This mirrors the historical situation of the Pharisees and scribes who grumbled at Jesus for receiving sinners. They stood adjacent to the kingdom, surrounded by the promises and covenant blessings of God, yet remained outside because they could not accept grace as the principle of God's dealing with humanity. The invitation still stood, but it required them to abandon their merit-based system and enter the feast as recipients of unearned favor. The Unresolved Ending and Its Challenge to Us Luke deliberately leaves the parable unfinished—we never learn whether the elder brother eventually joined the celebration. This narrative technique places the reader in the position of the elder brother, forcing us to answer for ourselves: will we enter the feast or remain outside in bitter resentment? For the original audience of Pharisees and scribes, this unresolved ending was a direct challenge to their response to Jesus' ministry. Would they continue to grumble at God's grace toward tax collectors and sinners, or would they recognize their own need and join the celebration? For contemporary readers, the question remains equally pressing. When we hear of a notorious sinner coming to faith, do we genuinely rejoice, or do we scrutinize their repentance with suspicion? When churches extend membership to those with broken pasts, do we celebrate restoration or quietly question whether they deserve a place at the table? The parable's open ending is not a literary flaw but a pastoral strategy: it refuses to let us remain passive observers and demands that we examine whether we harbor elder brother theology in our own hearts. Memorable Quotes The father's household is a place where grace produces joy, not just merely relief. The elder brother hears the joy before he sees it. That's often how resentment works, isn't it? We're alerted to the happiness of others and somehow there's this visceral response of wanting to be resentful toward that joy, toward that unmerited favor. — Jesse Schwamb There is a way to be near the house, church adjacent, religiously active, yet to be really far from the father's heart. The elder brother is not portrayed as an atheist, but as a moralist. And moralism can be a more subtle distance than open rebellion. — Jesse Schwamb God doesn't keep sinners from repenting. The reprobate are not prohibited or prevented by God from coming to faith. They're being kept out by their own stubborn refusal to come in. That's where this punchline hits so hard. — Tony Arsenal Full Transcript [00:00:44] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 477 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:51] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. [00:00:55] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. [00:00:56] Parables and God's Word [00:00:56] Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of ears to hear, it struck me that this whole thing we've been doing all this parable talk is really after the manner of God's words. And one of the things I've really grown to appreciate is how God speaks to the condition of those whom he addresses. He considers our ability, our capacity as his hearers to process what he's saying, and that leads into these amazing parables that we've been talking about. He doesn't speak as he is able to speak. So to speak, but I didn't mean that to happen. But as we were able to hear, and that means he spoke in these lovely parables so that we might better understand him. And today we're gonna get into some of the drama of the best, like the crown jewel as we've been saying, of maybe all the parables. The Parable of the Lost Son. We spoke a little bit about it in the last episode. Definitely want to hit that up because it's setting you up for this one, which is the definitive episode. But now we're gonna talk about this first, this younger lost son. Get into some of all of these like juicy details about what takes place, and really, again, see if we can find the heart of God. Spoiler. We can and we'll, [00:02:04] Tony Arsenal: yeah, [00:02:04] Affirmations and Denials [00:02:04] Jesse Schwamb: but before we do both of those things, it's of course always time at this moment to do a little affirming with or denying against. Of course, if you haven't heard us before, that's where we take a moment to say, is there something that we think is undervalued that we wanna bring forward that we'd recommend or think is awesome? Or conversely, is there something that's overvalued that's just, we're over it. The vibe is done. We're gonna deny against that. So I say to you, as I often do, Tony, are you affirming with or deny against? [00:02:31] Tony's Nerdy Hobby: Dungeons and Dragons [00:02:31] Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming tonight. Um, I don't know how much the audience realizes of a giant ridiculous nerd I am, but we're about to go to entirely new giant nerd depths. [00:02:43] Jesse Schwamb: All right. I [00:02:43] Tony Arsenal: think, [00:02:44] Jesse Schwamb: let's hear it. [00:02:44] Tony Arsenal: So, um, I was a huge fan of Stranger Things. Some, there's some issues with the show, and I understand why some people might not, um, might not feel great about watching it. You know, I think it falls within Christian liberty. But one of the main themes of the show, this is not a spoiler, you learn about this in episode one, is the whole game. The whole show frames itself around Dungeons and Dragons, right? It's kind of like a storytelling device within the show that the kids play, Dungeons and Dragons, and everything that happens in the Dungeons and Dragons game that they're playing, sort of like, um, foreshadows what's actually gonna happen in the show. Which funny if, you know Dungeons and Dragons lore, you kind of learn the entire plot of the story like ahead of time. Um, but so I, stranger Things just finished up and I've kind of been like itching to get into Dungeons and Dragons. I used to play a little bit of tabletop when I was in high school, in early college and um, I just really like the idea of sort of this collaborative storytelling game. Um, whether it's Dungeon Dragons or one of the other systems, um, Dungeons and Dragons is the most popular. It's the most well published. It's the most well established and it's probably the easiest to find a group to play with. Although it is very hard to find a group to play with, especially, uh, kind of out in the middle of nowhere where I live. So this is where the ultra super nerdy part comes in. [00:04:02] Jesse Schwamb: Alright, here we [00:04:03] Tony Arsenal: go. I have been painstakingly over the last week teaching Google Gemini. To be a dungeon master for me. So I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons more or less by myself with, uh, with Google Gemini, and I'm just having a lot of fun with it. Um, you can get a free copy of the rules online if you, I think it's DND, the letter NDND beyond.com. They have a full suite of like tools to create your character. Access to a basic set of the core rules. Um, you can spend a lot of money on Dungeons and Dragons, uh, and if you want to like really get into it, the books are basically textbooks. Like you're buying $300 or 300 page, $300, 300 page textbooks, um, that are not all that differently costs than like college textbooks. You'll buy a 300 page Dungeon master guide that's like $50 if you want a paper copy. So, but you can get into it for free. You can get the free rolls online, you can use their dungeon, the d and d Beyond app and do all your dice rolls for free. Um, you, you can get a free dice roller online if you don't want to do their, their app. Um, but it's just a lot of fun. I've just been having a lot of fun and I found that the, I mean. When you play a couple sessions with it, you see that the, the um, the A IDM that I've created, like it follows the same story beats 'cause it's only got so much to work with in its language model. Um, but I'm finding ways to sort of like break it out of that model by forcing it to refer to certain websites that are like Dungeons and Dragons lore websites and things like build your, build your campaign from this repository of Dungeons and Dragons stuff. So. I think you could do this with just about any sort of narrative storytelling game like this, whether you're playing a different system or d and d Pathfinders. I mean, there's all sorts of different versions of it, but it's just been a lot of fun to see, see it going. I'm trying to get a group together. 'cause I think I would, I would probably rather play Dungeons and Dragons with people, um, and rather do it in person. But it's hard to do up here. It's hard to get a, get a group going. So that's my super nerdy affirmation. I'm not just affirming Dungeons and Dragons, which would already be super nerdy. I'm affirming playing it by myself on my phone, on the bus with Google Gemini, AI acting like I'm not. Just this weird antisocial lunatic. So I'm having a lot of fun with it. [00:06:20] Jesse Schwamb: So there are so many levels of inception there. Yeah. Like the inception and everything you just said. I love it. [00:06:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, what I'm learning is, um, you can give an, and, and this is something I didn't realize, what ai, I guess I probably should have, you know, it's not like an infinite thing. Um, you can give an AI instructions and if your chat gets long enough, it actually isn't referring back to the very beginning of the chat most of the time. Right. There's a, there's like a win context window of about 30 responses. So like if you tell the AI, don't roll the dice for me, like, let me roll dices that are related to my actions, eventually it will forget that. So part of what I've been doing is basically building, I'm using Google Gemini when the AI does something I don't want it to do, I say, you just did something I don't want it to do. Gimme a diagnostic report of why you did that. It will explain to me why it did what it did. Right. Why it didn't observe the rules. And then I'm feeding that into another. Prompt that is helping me generate better prompts that it refers back to. So it's kind of this weird iterative, um, yeah, I, I don't, I'm like, I maybe I'm gonna create the singularity. I'm not sure. Maybe this is gonna be possible. We should sit over the edge. It's gonna, it's gonna learn how to cast magic spells and it's gonna fire bolt us in the face or something like that. Right. But, uh, again, high risk. I, I, for one, welcome our AO AI dungeon masters. So check it out. You should try it. If you could do this with chat GPT, you could do it with any ai. Um, it, it, it is going to get a little, I have the benefit because I have a Google Workspace account. I have access to Google Pro or the Gemini Pro, which is a better model for this kind of thing. But you could do this with, with chat GPT or something like that. And it's gonna be more or less the same experience, I think. But I'm having a, I'm having a ton of fun with it. Um. Again, I, I, there's something about just this, Dungeons and Dragons at its core is a, it's like a, an exercise in joint storytelling, which is really fascinating and interesting to me. Um, and that's what most tabletop RPGs are like. I suppose you get into something like War Hammer and it's a little bit more like a board. It's a mixture of that plus a board game. But Dungeons and Dragons, the DM is creating the, I mean, not the entire world, but is creating the narrative. And then you as a player are an actor within that narrative. And then there's a certain element of chance that dice rolls play. But for the most part, um, you're driving the story along. You're telling the story together. So it's, it's pretty interesting. I've also been watching live recordings of Dungeons and Dragon Sessions on YouTube. Oh, [00:08:50] Jesse Schwamb: wow. [00:08:51] Tony Arsenal: Like, there's a, there's a channel called Critical Role. Like these sessions are like three and a half hours long. So, wow. I just kinda have 'em on in the background when I'm, when I'm, uh, working or if I'm, you know, doing something else. Um, but it's really interesting stuff. It's, it's pretty cool. I think it's fun. I'm a super nerd. I'm, I'm no shame in that. Um, I'm just really enjoying it. [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, nerdery is great. That's like part of the zeitgeist now. Listen to culture. It's cool to be a nerd. I don't know much about d and d. I've heard a lot about this idea of this community that forms around. Yeah. The story, correct me if I'm wrong, can't these things go on for like years, decades? [00:09:25] Tony Arsenal: Oh yeah, yeah. Like, you can do there. There, some of this has made its way into the official rule books, but basically you could do what's called a one shot, which is like a self-contained story. Usually a single session, you know, like you get a Dungeon master, game master, whichever you wanna call the person. Three to four, maybe five characters, player characters. And one session is usually about two hours long. So it's not like you sit down for 20 minutes, 30 minutes at a time and play this right. And you could do a one shot, which is a story that's designed to, to live all within that two hour session. Um, some people will do it where there isn't really any planned like, outcome of the story. The, the DM just kind of makes up things to do as they go. And then you can have campaigns, which is like, sometimes it's like a series of one shots, but more, it is more like a long term serialized period, you know, serialized campaign where you're doing many, um, many, many kinds of, uh, things all in one driving to like a big epic goal or battle at the end, right? Um, some groups stay together for a really long time and they might do multiple campaigns, so there's a lot to it. Game's been going on for like 50, 60, 70 years, something like that. I don't remember exactly when it started, but [00:10:41] Jesse Schwamb: yeah. [00:10:41] Tony Arsenal: Um, it's an old game. It's kinda like the doctor who of of poor games and it's like the original tabletop role playing game, I think. [00:10:47] Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Again, there's something really appealing to me about not just that cooperative storytelling, but cooperative gameplay. Everybody's kind of in it together for the most part. Yeah. Those conquest, as I understand them, are joint in nature. You build solidarity, but if you're meeting with people and having fun together and telling stories and interacting with one another, there's a lot of good that comes out of that stuff there. A lot of lovely common grace in those kind of building, those long-term interactions, relationships, entertainment built on being together and having good, clean, fun together. [00:11:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Well, and it's, you know, it's, um. It's an interesting exercise. It's it, in some ways it's very much like improv. Like you, you think of like an improv comedy like show I've been to somewhere. Like, you know, you go to the show and it's an improv troupe, but they're like calling people from the crowd up and asking them for like different scenarios they might do. It's kind of like that in that like the GM can plan a whole, can plan a whole thing. But if I as a player character, um. And I've done this to the virtual one just to see what it does, and it's done some interesting things. One of the campaigns I was playing, I had rescued a merchant from some giant spiders and I was helping, like, I was helping like navigate them through the woods to the next town. And we kept on getting attacked and just outta nowhere. I was like, what if I sort of act as though I'm suspicious of this merchant now because why are we getting attacked all the time? And so I, I typed in sort of like a little. A mini role play of me accusing this guy. And it was something like, Randall, we get, we're getting attacked a lot for a simple merchant, Randall merchant. What happens if I cast a tech magic? What am I gonna find? And he's like, I don't know what I'm gonna find. I know I don't know anything. And then I cast a tech magic and it shifted. I mean, I don't know where the campaign was gonna go before that, but it shifted the whole thing now where the person who gave him the package he was carrying had betrayed him. It was, so that happens in real life too in these games, real life in these games. That happens in real, in-person sessions too, where a player or a group of players may just decide instead of talking to the contact person that is supposed to give them the clue to find the dungeon they're supposed to go to, instead they ambush them and murder them in gold blood. And now the, the dungeon master has to figure out, how do I get them back to this dungeon when this is the only person that was supposed to know where it is? So it, it does end up really stretching your thinking skills and sort of your improvisational skills. There's an element of, um, you know, like chance with the dice, um, I guess like the dice falls in the lot, but the lot is in the handle. Or like, obviously that's all ordained as well too, but there is this element of chance where even the DM doesn't get to determine everything. Um, if, if I say I want to, I want to try to sneak into this room, but I'm a giant barbarian who has, you know, is wearing like chain mail, there's still a chance I could do it, but the dice roll determines that. It's not like the, the GM just says you can't do that. Um, so it's, it's a, I, I like it. I'm, I'm really looking forward to trying to, getting into it. It is hard to start a group and to get going and, um, there's a part of me that's a little bit. Gun shy of maybe like getting too invested with a group of non-Christians for something like this. 'cause it can get a little weird sometimes. But I think that, I think that'll work out. It'll be fun. I know there's actually some people in our telegram chat. Bing, bing, bing segue. There we go. There's some people in our telegram chat actually, that we're already planning to do a campaign. Um, so we might even do like a virtual reform brotherhood, Dungeons and Dragons group. So that might be a new sub channel in the telegram at some point. [00:14:13] Jesse Schwamb: There you go. You could jump right in. Go to t.me back slash reform brotherhood. [00:14:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse, what are you affirming since I just spent the last 15 minutes gushing about my nerdy hobby? [00:14:23] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, no, that was great. Can I, can I just say two things? One is, so you're basically saying it's a bit like, like a troll shows up and everybody's like, yes. And yeah. So I love that idea. Second thing, which is follow up question, very brief. What kind of merchant was Randall. [00:14:39] Tony Arsenal: Uh, he was a spice trader actually. [00:14:42] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I don't trust that. [00:14:43] Tony Arsenal: And, and silk, silk and spices. [00:14:45] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. That's double, that's too strict. [00:14:47] Tony Arsenal: He was actually good guy in the, in the story that developed out of this campaign. He actually became part of my family and like, like, like got adopted into the family because he lost everything on his own. Randy we're [00:15:00] Jesse Schwamb: talking about Randy. [00:15:01] Tony Arsenal: Randy Randall with one L. Yeah. The AI was very specific about that. [00:15:05] Jesse Schwamb: There's, there's nothing about this guy I trust. I, is this still ongoing? Because I think he's just trying to make his way deeper in, [00:15:11] Tony Arsenal: uh, no, no. It, I'll, I'll wait for next week to tell you how much, even more nerdy this thing gets. But there's a whole thing that ha there was a whole thing out of this That's a tease. Tease. There was a, there was a horse and the horse died and there was lots of tears and there was a wedding and a baby. It was, it's all sorts of stuff going on in this campaign. [00:15:27] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And I'm sure. Randy was somewhere near that horse when it happened. Right? [00:15:32] Tony Arsenal: It was his horse. [00:15:33] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, exactly. That's [00:15:35] Tony Arsenal: exactly, he didn't, he didn't kill the horse. He had no power to knock down the bridge The horse was standing on. [00:15:40] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, next week, I'm pretty sure that's what we're gonna learn is that it was all him. [00:15:45] Tony Arsenal: Alright, Jesse, save us from this. Save us from this, please. Uh, [00:15:49] Jesse Schwamb: no. What [00:15:50] Tony Arsenal: you affirming, this is [00:15:50] Jesse Schwamb: great. [00:15:50] Jesse's Affirmation: Church Community [00:15:50] Jesse Schwamb: It's possible that there is a crossover between yours and mine if we consider. That the church is like playing a d and d game in the dungeon Masters Christ, and the campaigns, the gospel. So I was thinking maybe is it possible, uh, maybe this is just the, the theology of the cross, but that sometimes, like you need the denial to get to the affirmation. Have we talked about that kind of truth? Yeah, [00:16:14] Tony Arsenal: yeah, [00:16:15] Jesse Schwamb: for sure. So here's a little bit of that. I'll be very, very brief and I'm using this not as like just one thing that happened today, but what I know is for sure happening all over the world. And I mean that very literally, not just figuratively when it comes to the body of Christ, the local church. So it snowed here overnight. This was, this is the Lord's Day. We're hanging out in the Lord's Day, which is always a beautiful day to talk about God. And overnight it snowed. The snow stopped relatively late in the morning around the time that everybody would be saying, Hey, it's time to go and worship the Lord. So for those in my area, I got up, we did the whole clearing off the Kai thing. I went to church and I was there a little bit early for a practice for music. And when I pulled in, there weren't many there yet, but the whole parking lot unplowed. So there's like three inches of snow, unplowed parking lot. So I guess the denial is like the plow people decided like, not this time I, I don't think so. They understood they were contracted with the church, but my understanding is that when one of the deacons called, they were like, Ooh, yeah, we're like 35 minutes away right now, so that's gonna be a problem. So when I pulled in, here's what I was. Like surprise to find, but in a totally unexpected way, even though I understand what a surprise is. And that is that, uh, that first the elders and the deacons, everybody was just decided we're going to shovel an entire parking lot. And at some point big, I was a little bit early there, but at some point then this massive text change just started with everybody, which was, Hey, when you come to church, bring your shovel. And I, I will tell you like when I got out of the car. I was so like somebody was immediately running to clear a path with me. One of those like snow pushers, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like one, those beastly kind of like blade things. [00:17:57] Tony Arsenal: Those things are, those things are the best. [00:17:59] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. You just run. And so you have never met a group of people that was more happy to shovel an entire large asphalt area, which normally shouldn't even be required. And. It just struck me, even in hindsight now thinking about it, it was this lovely confluence of people serving each other and serving God. It was as if they got up that morning and said, do you know what would be the best thing in the world for me to do is to shovel. And so everybody was coming out. Everybody was shoveling it. It was to protect everyone and to allow one into elaborate, one access. It was just incredible. And so I started this because the affirmation is, I know this happens in, in all of our churches, every God fearing God, loving God serving church, something like this is happening, I think on almost every Lord's day or maybe every day of the week in various capacities. And I just think this is God's people coming together because everybody, I think when we sat down for the message was exhausted, but. But there was so much joy in doing this. I think what you normally would find to be a mundane and annoying task, and the fact that it wasn't just, it was redeemed as if like we, we found a greater purpose in it. But that's, everyone saw this as a way to love each other and to love God, and it became unexpected worship in the parking lot. That's really what it was, and it was fantastic. I really almost hope that we just get rid of the plow company and just do it this way from now on. Yeah, so I'm affirming, recognize people, recognize brothers and sisters that your, your church is doing this stuff all the time and, and be a part of it. Jump in with the kinda stuff because I love how it brings forward the gospel. [00:19:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. It's a great, uh, a great example of the body of Christ being, what the body of Christ is and just pulling together to get it done. Um, which, you know, we do on a spiritual level, I think, more often than a physical level these days. Right, right. But, um, that's great. I'm sitting here going three inches of snow. I would've just pulled into the lot and then pulled out of the lot. But New Hampshire, it hits different in New Hampshire. Like we all d have snow tires and four wheel drive. [00:20:02] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's enough snow where it was like pretty wet and heavy that it, if, you know, you pack that stuff down, it gets slick. You can't see the people, like you can't have your elderly people just flying in, coming in hot and then trying to get outta the vehicle, like making their way into church. [00:20:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:20:15] Jesse Schwamb: So there was, there was a lot more of that. But I think again, you would, one of the options would've been like, Hey, why don't we shovel out some sp spaces for the, for those who need it, for, you know, those who need to have access in a way that's a little bit less encumbered. Oh, no, no. These people are like, I see your challenge and I am going to shovel the entire parking lots. [00:20:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It used to happen once in a while, uh, at the last church, uh, at, um, your dad's church. We would, where the plow would just not come on a Sunday morning or, or more often than not. Um, you know, what happens a lot of times is the plows don't want to come more than once. Right. If they don't have to. Or sometimes they won't come if they think it's gonna melt because they don't want to deal with, uh, with like customers who are mad that you plowed and that it all melts. But either way, once in a while. The plow wouldn't come or it wouldn't come in time. And what we would do is instead of trying to shovel an entire driveway thing, we would just went, the first couple people who would get there, the young guys in the church, there was only a couple of us, but the younger guys in the church would just, we would just be making trips, helping people into the, yeah. Helping people into the building. So, um, it was a pretty, you know, it was a small church, so it was like six trips and we'd have everybody in, but um, we just kind of, that was the way we pulled together. Um, yeah, that's a great, it's a great story. I love, I love stuff like that. Yeah, me too. Whether it's, whether it's, you know, plowing a, a parking lot with shovels instead of a plow, or it's just watching, um, watching the tables and the chairs from the fellowship, you know, all just like disappear because everybody's just, uh, picks up after themselves and cleans and stuff. That's, that's like the most concrete example of the body of Christ doing what the body of Christ does. Um, it's always nice, you know, we always hear jokes about like, who can carry the most, the most chairs, [00:22:04] Jesse Schwamb: most [00:22:04] Tony Arsenal: chairs. Uh, I think it's true. Like a lot of times I think like I could do like seven or eight sometimes. [00:22:10] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, you, that's, so, one more thing I wanna say. I, I wanted to tell you this privately, Tony, 'cause it just cracked me up 'cause I, you'll appreciate this. But now I'm realizing I think the brothers and sisters who listened to us talk for any length of time and in the context of this conversation, but the church will appreciate this too. On my way out, I, I happened because I was there early and the snow was crazy. I parked way further out, way on the edge of the lot to just allow for greater access because of all the shoveling that was happening. And by the way, I really hope there were a ton of visitors this morning because they were like, wow, this, this church is wild. They love to shovel their own lot and they're the happiest people doing it. Some sweaty person just ushered me in while they were casting snow. Like, [00:22:47] Tony Arsenal: is this some new version of snake handling? You shovel your own lot and your impervious to back injuries. [00:22:53] Jesse Schwamb: Uh. So I was walking out and as I walked past, uh, there was a, uh, two young gentlemen who were congregating by this very large lifted pickup truck, which I don't have much experience with, but it looked super cool and it was started, it was warming up, and they were just like casually, like in the way that only like people with large beards wearing flannel and Carhartt kind of do, like casually leaning against the truck, talking in a way that you're like, wow, these guys are rugged. And they sound, they're super cool, and they're probably like in their twenties. And all I hear as I pass by is one guy going, yeah, well, I mean that's, I was, I said to them too, but I said, listen, I'd rather go to a church with God-fearing women than anywhere else. [00:23:36] Tony Arsenal: Nice. [00:23:37] Jesse Schwamb: I was just like, yep. On the prowl and I love it. And they're not wrong. This is the place to be. [00:23:42] Tony Arsenal: It is. [00:23:43] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. This is the place to be. Yeah. So all kinds of, all kinds of good things I think going on in that in the house of the Lord and where wherever you're at, I would say be happy and be joyful and look for those things and participate in, like you said, whether it's physical or not, but as soon as you said like the, our young men, our youth somehow have this competition of when we need to like pack up the sanctuary. How many chairs can I take at one time? Yeah. It's like the classic and it just happens. Nobody says like, okay, everybody line up. We're about to embark on the competition now. Like the strong man usher competition. It's just like, it just happens and [00:24:17] Tony Arsenal: it's [00:24:17] Jesse Schwamb: incredible. [00:24:18] Tony Arsenal: I mean, peacocks fan out their tail feathers. Young Christian guys fan out. All of the table chairs, chairs they can carry. It's uh, it's a real phenomena. So I feel like if you watch after a men's gathering, everybody is like carrying one chair at a time because they don't wanna hurt their backs and their arms. Oh, that's [00:24:36] Jesse Schwamb: true. That's [00:24:37] Tony Arsenal: what I do. Yeah. But it's when the women are around, that's when you see guys carrying like 19 chairs. Yeah. Putting themselves in the hospital. [00:24:42] Jesse Schwamb: That's what I, listen, it comes for all of us. Like I, you know, I'm certainly not young anymore by almost any definition, but even when I'm in the mix, I'm like, oh, I see you guys. You wanna play this game? Mm-hmm. Let's do this. And then, you know, I'm stacking chairs until I hurt myself. So it's great. That's, that is what we do for each other. It's [00:25:01] Tony Arsenal: just, I hurt my neck getting outta bed the other day. So it happens. It's real. [00:25:05] Jesse Schwamb: The struggle. Yeah, the struggle is real. [00:25:07] The Parable of the Lost Son [00:25:07] Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of struggle, speaking of family issues, speaking of all kinds of drama, let's get into Luke 15 and let me read just, I would say the first part of this parable, which as we've agreed to talk about, if we can even get this far, it's just the younger son. [00:25:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:25:25] Jesse Schwamb: And again, don't worry, we're gonna get to all of it, but let me read beginning in, uh, verse 11 here. This is Luke chapter 15. Come follow along as you will accept if you're operating heavy machinery. And Jesus said, A man had two sons and the younger of them said to his father, father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me. So he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country. And there he squandered his estate living recklessly. Now, when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country and it began to be impoverished. So he went and hired himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. So he went and as he was desiring to be fed with the pods that the swine were eating because no one was giving anything to him. But when he came to himself, he said, how many of my father's men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger. I'll rise up and go to my father, and I'll say to him, father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men. So he rose up, came to his father, but while he was still a long way off. His father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced him. And the son said to him, father, I've sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to his slaves, quickly, bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet and bring the fat in calf and slaughter it and let us celebrate. For the son of mine was dead and has come to life again. He was lost and he has been found and they began to celebrate. [00:27:09] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. This is such a, um, such a, I don't know, like pivotal seminal parable in the Ministry of Christ. Um, it's one of those parables and we, we mentioned this briefly last week that even most. It, it hasn't passed out of the cultural zeitgeist yet. A lot of biblical teaching has, I mean, a lot, I think a lot of things that used to be common knowledge where, where you could make a reference to something in the Bible and people would just get it. Um, even if they weren't Christian or weren't believers, they would still know what you were talking about. There's a lot of things in the Bible that have passed out of that cultural memory. The, the parable of the prodigal son, lost son, however you wanna phrase it, um, that's not one of them. Right. So I think it's really important for us, um, and especially since it is such a beautiful picture of the gospel and it has so many different theological touch points, it's really incumbent on us to spend time thinking about this because I would be willing to bet that if you weave. Elements of this parable into your conversations with nonbelievers that you are praying for and, and, you know, witnessing to and sharing the gospel with, if you weave this in there, you're gonna help like plant some seeds that when it comes time to try to harvest, are gonna pay dividends. Right. So I think it's a really, it's a really great thing that we're gonna be able to spend, you know, a couple weeks really just digging into this. [00:28:40] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, and to define the beginning, maybe from the end, just slightly here, I like what you said about this cultural acknowledgement of this. I think one of the correctives we can provide, which is clear in the story, is in the general cultural sense. We speak of this prodigal as something that just returns comes back, was lost, but now is found. And often maybe there is this component of, in the familial relationship, it's as if they've been restored. Here we're gonna of course find that this coming to one senses is in fact the work of God. That there is, again, a little bit of denial that has to bring forward the affirmation here that is the return. And so again, from the beginning here, we're just talking about the younger son. We have more than youthful ambition. [00:29:19] The Essence of Idolatry and Sin [00:29:19] Jesse Schwamb: This heart of, give me the stuff now, like so many have said before, is really to say. Give me the gifts and not you, which is, I think, a common fault of all Christians. We think, for instance of heaven, and we think of all the blessings that come with it, but not necessarily of the joy of just being with our savior, being with Christ. And I think there's something here right from the beginning, there's a little bit of this betrayal in showing idolatry, the ugliness of treating God's gifts as if there's something owed. And then this idea that of course. He receives these things and imme more or less immediately sometime after he goes and takes these things and squanderers them. And sin and idolatry, I think tends to accelerate in this way. The distance from the father becomes distance from wisdom. We are pulled away from that, which is good. The father here being in his presence and being under his care and his wisdom and in his fear of influence and concern, desiring then to say, I don't want you just give me the gifts that you allegedly owe me. And then you see how quickly like sin does everything you, we always say like, sin always costs more than you want to pay. And it always takes you further than you want to go. And that's exactly what we see here. Like encapsulated in an actual story of relationship and distance. [00:30:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I think, um. It's interesting to me. [00:30:39] The Greek Words for Property [00:30:39] Tony Arsenal: You know, I, I, I'm a big fan of saying you don't need to study Greek to understand your Bible, but I'm also a big fan of saying understanding a little bit of Greek is really helpful. And one of the things that I think is really intriguing, and I haven't quite parsed out exactly what I think this means, but the word property in this parable, it actually is two different Greek words that is translated as property, at least in the ESV. And neither one of them really fit. What our normal understanding of property would be. And there are Greek words that refer to like all of your material possessions, but it says, father, give me the share of property. And he uses the word usia, which those of us who have heard anything about the trinity, which is all of us, um, know that that word means something about existence. It's the core essence of a person. So it says, father, give me the share of usia that is coming to me. And then it says, and he divided his bias, his, his life between them. Then it says, not many days later, the younger son gathered all that he had took a journey into the far country. There he squandered his usia again. So this, this parable, Christ is not using the ordinary words to refer to material, uh, material accumulation and property like. I think probably, you know, Christ isn't like randomly using these words. So there probably is an element that these were somehow figuratively used of one's life possessions. But the fact that he's using them in these particular ways, I think is significant. [00:32:10] The Prodigal Son's Misconception [00:32:10] Tony Arsenal: And so the, the, the younger son here, and I don't even like calling this the prodigal sun parable because the word prodigal doesn't like the equivalent word in Greek doesn't appear in this passage. And prodigal doesn't mean like the lost in returned, like prodigal is a word that means like the one who spends lavishly, right? So we call him the prodigal son because he went and he squandered all of his stuff and he spent all of his money. So it doesn't even really describe the main feature or the main point of why this, this parable is here. It's just sort of like a random adjective that gets attached to it. But all of that aside, um. This parable starts off not just about wasting our property, like wasting our things, but it's a parable that even within the very embedded language of the parable itself is talking about squandering our very life, our very essence, our very existence is squandered and wasted as we depart from the Father. Right? And this is so like, um, it's almost so on the head, on the on the nose that it's almost a little like, really Jesus. Like this is, this is so like, slap you in the face kind of stuff. This is right outta like Romans, uh, Romans one, like they did not give thanks to God. They did not show gratitude to God or acknowledge him as God. This is what's happening in this parable. The son doesn't go to his father and say, father, I love you. I'm so happy to stay with you. I'm so happy to be here. He, he basically says like. Give me your very life essence, and I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go spend it on prostitutes. I'm gonna go waste your life, father, I'm gonna waste your life, your existence, your bias. I'm gonna go take that and I'm gonna squander it on reckless living. And I guess we don't know for sure. He, it doesn't say he spends it on prostitutes. That's something his brother says later and assumes he did. So I, I don't know that we do that. But either way, I'm gonna take what's yours, your very life, your very essence. And also that my life, my essence, the gift you've given me as my father, you've given me my life. In addition now to your life or a portion of your life. And I'm gonna go squander that on reckless living, right? Like, how much of a picture of sin is that, that we, we take what we've been given by God, our very life, our very essence, we owe him everything, and we squander that on sinful, reckless living. That that's just a slap in the face in the best way right out of the gate here. [00:34:28] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, that, that's a great point because it's, it would be one thing to rebel over disobedience, another thing to use the very life essence that you've been given for destructive, self-destructive purposes. And then to use that very energy, which is not yours to begin with, but has been imbued in yours, external, all of these things. And then to use that very thing as the force of your rebellion. So it's double insult all the way around. I'm with you in the use of Greek there. Thank you. Locus Bio software. Not a sponsor of the podcast, but could be. And I think that's why sometimes in translations you get the word like a state because it's like the closest thing we can have to understanding that it's property earned through someone's life more or less. Yeah. And then is passed down, but as representative, not just of like, here's like 20 bucks of cash, but something that I spent all of me trying to earn and. And to your point, also emphasizing in the same way that this son felt it was owed him. So it's like really bad all around and I think we would really be doing ourselves a disservice if we didn't think that there's like a little bit of Paul washer saying in this, like I'm talking about you though. So like just be like, look at how disrespectful the sun is. Yeah. Haven't we all done this? To God and bringing up the idea of prodigal being, so that, that is like the amazing juxtaposition, isn't it? Like Prodigal is, is spent recklessly, parsimonious would be like to, to save recklessly, so to speak. And then you have the love the father demonstrates coming against all of that in the same way with like a totally different kind of force. So. [00:36:02] The Famine and Realization [00:36:02] Jesse Schwamb: What I find interesting, and I think this is like set up in exactly what you said, is that when you get to verse 14 and this famine comes, it's showing us, I think that like providence exposes what Sin conceals. [00:36:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:36:16] Jesse Schwamb: And want arrives. Not just because like the money ran out, but because again, like these idols, what he's replaced the father with, they don't satisfy. And repentance then often begins when God shows the emptiness of light apart life apart from him. That's like the affirmation being born out of the denial. And so I think that this also is evolving for us, this idea that God is going to use hardship, not as mere punishment, but as mercy that wakes us up and that the son here is being woken up, but not, of course, it's not as if he goes into the land, like you said, starts to spend, is like, whoa, hold on a second. This seems like a bad idea. It's not until all of that sin ever, like the worship of false things collapses under its own weight before it, which is like the precursor of the antecedent, I think, to this grand repentance or this waking up. [00:37:05] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I also think it's, um. [00:37:08] The Depths of Desperation [00:37:08] Tony Arsenal: A feature of this that I haven't reflected on too deeply, but is, is worth thinking about is the famine that's described here only occurs in this far country that he's in. [00:37:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. [00:37:17] Tony Arsenal: Right. So even that's right. And this is like a multitude of foolish decisions. This is compounding foolish decisions that don't, don't make any sense. Like they don't really actually make any sense. Um. There's not a logic to this, this lost son's decision making. He takes the property. Okay. I guess maybe like you could be anxious to get your inheritance, but then like he takes it to a far country. Like there's no reason for him to do that. If at any point through this sort of insane process he had stopped short, he would not have been in the situation he was in. Yes. And that, I love that phrase, that providence, you know, reveals, I don't know exactly how you said it, but like providence reveals what our sin can bring to us. Like he first see sins against his father by sort of like demanding, demanding his inheritance early. Then he takes it and he leaves his country for no reason. He goes to this far country, then he spends everything and then the famine arises. Right? And the famine arises in this other country. [00:38:13] Jesse Schwamb: Right. [00:38:13] Tony Arsenal: And that's, I think that is still again, like a picture of sin. Like we. We don't just, we don't just take what the father has and, and like spend it like that would be bad enough if we weren't grateful for what we have and what we've been given, and we just waste it. But on top of that, now we also have taken ourselves to a far country. Like we've gone away from the good, the good land of the Lord, as those who are not regenerate. We've gone away from the, the Lord into this far country. And it's not until we start to have this famine that we recognize what we've done. And again, this is, this is where I think we get a picture. There's so many theological, like points in this parable particular that it almost feels a little bit like a, like a. Parable that's intended to teach some systematic theology about for sure, the oral salus, which I think there's probably a lot of like biblical theology people that are ready to just crawl through the screen and strangle me for saying that. But this is such a glorious picture of, of regeneration too. [00:39:16] The Journey Back to the Father [00:39:16] Tony Arsenal: Like he comes to himself, there's nothing, there's nothing in the story that's like, oh, and the servant that he was, the other servant he was talking to mentioned that the famine, like there's nothing here that should prompt him to want to go back to his home, to think that his father could or would do anything about it, except that he comes to himself. He just comes to the realization that his father is a good man and is wise and has resources, and has takes care of his, of his servants on top of how he takes care of his sons. That is a picture of regeneration. There's no, yeah. Logical, like I'm thinking my way into it, he just one day realizes how much, how many of my father's servants have more than enough bread. Right. But I'm perishing here in this, this foolish other country with nothing. Right. I can't even, and the, the pods that the pigs ate, we can even, we can get into the pods a little bit here, but like. He wants to eat the pods. The pods that he's giving the pigs are not something that's even edible to humans. He's that destitute, that he's willing to eat these pods that are like, this is the leftover stuff that you throw to the pigs because no, no, nobody and nothing else can actually eat it. And that's the state he's in at the very bottom, in the very end of himself where he realizes my father is good and he loves me, and even if I can never be his son again, surely he'll take care of me. I mentioned it last week, like he wasn't going back thinking that this was gonna be a failing proposition. He went back because he knew or he, he was confident that his father was going to be able to take care of him and would accept him back. Right. Otherwise, what would be the point of going back? It wasn't like a, it wasn't like a, um, a mission he expected to fail at. He expected there to be a positive outcome or he wouldn't have done it. Like, it wouldn't make any sense to try that if there wasn't the hope of some sort of realistic option. [00:41:09] Jesse Schwamb: And I think his confidence in that option, as you were saying, is in this way where he's constructed a transaction. Yeah. That he's gonna go back and say, if you'll just take me out as a slave, I know you have slaves, I will work for you. Right. Therefore, I feel confident that you'll accept me under those terms because I'll humble myself. And why would you not want to remunerate? Me for the work that I put forward. So you're right, like it's, it's strange that he basically comes to this, I think, sense that slavery exists in his life and who would he rather be the slave of, [00:41:38] Tony Arsenal: right? [00:41:39] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And so he says, listen, I'm gonna come to the father and give him this offer. And I'm very confident that given that offer and his behavior, what I know about how he treats his other slaves, that he will hire me back because there's work to do. And therefore, as a result of the work I put forward, he will take care of me. How much of like contemporary theology is being preached in that very way right now? [00:41:58] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:41:59] Jesse Schwamb: And that's really like why the minimum wages of sin is all of this stuff. It's death. It's the consequences that we're speaking about here. By the way, the idea about famine is really interesting. I hadn't thought about that. It is interesting, again, that sin casts him out into this foreign place where the famine occurs. And that famine is the beginning of his realization of the true destruction, really how far he's devolved and degraded in his person and in his relationships and in his current states. And then of course, the Bible is replete with references and God moving through famine. And whereas in Genesis, we have a local famine, essentially casting Joseph brothers into a foreign land to be freed and to be saved. [00:42:39] Tony Arsenal: Right. [00:42:40] Jesse Schwamb: We have the exact opposite, which is really kind of interesting. Yeah. So we probably should talk about, you know, verse 15 and the, and the pig stuff. I mean, I think the obvious statement here is that. It would be scandalous, like a Jewish hero would certainly feel the shame of the pigs. They represent UNC cleanliness and social humiliation. I'm interested again, in, in this idea, like you've started us on that the freedom that this younger brother sought for becomes slavery. It's kind of bondage of the wills style. Yeah. Stuff. There's like an, an attentiveness in the story to the degrading reversal in his condition. And it is interesting that we get there finally, like the bottom of the pit maybe, or the barrel is like you said, the pods, which it's a bit like looking at Tide pods and being like, these are delicious. I wish I could just eat these. So I, I think your point isn't lost. Like it's not just that like he looked at something gross and was so his stomach was grumbling so much that he might find something in there that he would find palatable. It, it's more than that. It's like this is just total nonsense. It, this is Romans one. [00:43:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And these pods, like, these aren't, um, you know, I guess I, I don't know exactly what these are. I'm sure somebody has done all of the historical linguistic studies, but the Greek word is related to the, the word for keratin. So like the, the same, the same root word. And we have to be careful not to define a Greek word based on how we use it. That's a reverse etymology fallacy. Like dunamis doesn't mean dynamite, it's the other direction. But the Greek word is used in other places, in Greek literature to describe like the horns of rhinoc, like, [00:44:21] Jesse Schwamb: right, [00:44:21] Tony Arsenal: this, these aren't like. These aren't pea pods. I've heard this described like these are like little vegetable pods. No, this is like they're throwing pieces of bone to the pigs. [00:44:31] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. [00:44:31] Tony Arsenal: And the pigs, the pigs can manage it. And this is what this also like, reinforces how destitute and how deep the famine is. Like this isn't as though, like this is the normal food you give to pigs. Like usually you feed pigs, like you feed pigs, like the extra scraps from your table and like other kinds of like agricultural waste. These are, these are like chunks of bony keratin that are being fed to the pigs. So that's how terrible the famine is that not even the pigs are able to get food. [00:45:00] Jesse Schwamb: Right? [00:45:00] Tony Arsenal: They're given things that are basically inedible, but the pigs can manage it. And this, this kid is so hungry, he's so destitute that he says, man, I wish I could chew on those bony, those bony pods that I'm feeding them because that's how hungry and starved I am. You get the picture that this, um. This lost son is actually probably not just metaphorically on the brink of death, but he's in real risk of starvation, real risk of death that he, he can't even steal. He can't even steal from the pigs what they're eating, right? Like he can't even, he can't even glean off of what the pigs are eating just to stay alive. He, he's literally in a position where he has no hope of actually rescuing himself. The only thing that he can do, and this is the realization he has, the only thing he can do is throw himself back on the mercy of his father. [00:45:50] Jesse Schwamb: That's [00:45:50] Tony Arsenal: right. And, and hope, again, I think hope with confidence, but hope that his father will show mercy on him and his, his conception. I wanna be careful in this parable not to, I, I think there's something to what you're getting at or kinda what you're hinting at, that like his conception of mercy is. Not the full picture of the gospel. Yes. His conception of mercy is that he's going to be able to go and work and be rewarded for his laborers in a way that he can survive. And the gospel is so much broader and so much bigger than that. But at the same time, I think it's, it's actually also a confident hope, a faith-filled hope that his father's mercy is going to rescue him, is going to save him. So it is this picture of what we do. And, and I think, I think sometimes, um, I want to be careful how we say this 'cause I don't wanna, I don't want to get a bunch of angry emails and letters, but I think sometimes we, um, we make salvation too much of a theology test. And there's probably people that are like, Tony, did you really just say that? I think there are people who trust in the Lord Jesus thinking that that means something akin to what. This lost son thinks [00:47:03] Jesse Schwamb: Right. [00:47:03] Tony Arsenal: Exactly. They trust. They trust that Jesus is merciful and, and I'm not necessarily thinking of Roman Catholics. I'm not thinking of Roman Catholic theology for sure. I do think there are a fair number of Roman Catholic individuals that fall into this category where they trust Jesus to save them. Right. They just don't fully understand exactly what Jesus means, what that means for them to be saved. They think that Christ is a savior who will provide a way for them to be saved by His grace that requires them to contribute something to it. Arminians fall into that category. Right. I actually think, and I, I think there's gonna be if, if there's, if the one Lutheran who listens to our show hears this is gonna be mad, but I actually think Lutheran theology kind of falls into this in a sort of negative fashion in that you have to not resist grace in order to be saved. So I think. That is something we should grapple with is that there are people who fit into that category, but this is still a faith-filled, hope-filled confidence in the mercy of the father in this parable that he's even willing to make the journey back. Right? This isn't like right, he walks from his house down the street or from the other side of town. He's wandering back from a far country. He, he went into a far country. He has to come back from a far country. And yes, the father greets him from afar and sees him from afar. But we're not talking about like from a far country. Like he sees him coming down the road, it, he has to travel to him, and this is a picture of. The hope and the faith that we have to have to return to God, to throw ourselves on the mercy of Christ, trusting that he has our best interest in mind, that he has died for us, and that it is for us. Right? There's the, the knowledge of what Christ has done, and then there's the ascent to the truth of it. And then the final part of faith is the confidence or the, the faith in trust in the fact that, that is for me as well, right? This, this is a picture of that right here. I, I don't know why we thought we were gonna get through the whole thing in one week, Jesse. We're gonna spend at least two weeks on this lost son, or at least part of the second week here. But he, this is, this is also like a picture of faith. This is why I say this as like a systematic theology lesson on soteriology all packed into here. Because not only do we have, like what is repentance and or what does regeneration look like? It's coming to himself. What does repentance look like? Yes. Turning from your sins and coming back. What is, what is the orde solis? Well, there's a whole, there's a whole thing in here. What is the definition of faith? Well, he knows that his father is good. That he has more than enough food for his servants. He, uh, is willing to acknowledge the truth of that, and he's willing to trust in that, in that he's willing to walk back from a far country in order to lay claim to that or to try to lay claim to it. That's a picture of faith right there, just in all three parts. Right. It's, it's really quite amazing how, how in depth this parable goes on this stuff, [00:49:54] Jesse Schwamb: right? Yeah. It's wild to note that as he comes to himself, he's still working. Yeah, in that far off country. So this shows again that sin is this cruel master. He hits the bottom, he wants the animal food, but he's still unfed. And this is all the while again, he has some kind of arrangement where he is trying to work his way out of that and he sees the desperation. And so I'm with you, you know, before coming to Christ, A person really, I think must come to themselves and that really is like to say they need to have a sober self-knowledge under God, right? Yeah. Which is, as we said before, like all this talk about, well Jesus is the answer. We better be sure what the question is. And that question is who am I before God? And this is why, of course, you have to have the law and gospel, or you have to have the the bad news before you can have the good news. And really, there's all of this bad news that's delivered here and this repentance, like you've been saying, it's not just mere regret, we know this. It's a turning, it's a reorientation back to the father. He says, I will arise and go to my father. So yeah, also it demonstrates to me. When we do come to ourselves when there's a sober self-knowledge under God, there is a true working out of salvation that necessarily requires and results in some kind of action, right? And that is the mortification of sin that is moving toward God again, under his power and direction of the Holy Spirit. But still there is some kind of movement on our part. And so that I think is what leads then in verse 19, as you're saying, the son and I do love this 'cause I think this goes right back to like the true hope that he has, even though it might be slightly corrupted or slightly wa
Show Notes Tarek Matar, founder of Scalar AI, explains the tool's purpose. He describes Scalar AI as an AI engine designed for consultants to build McKinsey level, end-to-end slides and presentations. The tool is differentiated from general AI tools like ChatGPT and GPT-3 by focusing on consulting-grade presentations. The founders include a research scientist from Google Brain and two other experienced professionals. Features and Functionality of Scalar AI Scalar AI automates the entire research, analysis, structure, and visualization process for consultants. The tool can create single slides or entire decks based on user prompts.It offers various modes: AI generation, text to slide, and sketch to slide, allowing flexibility in input methods. The tool includes a custom brand identity feature, allowing users to upload and customize their firm's PowerPoint templates. A Scalar.AI Demonstration Tarek demonstrates the tool by creating a slide and a deck. Adding Prompts Adding custom brand identity Tarek creates a waterfall slide showing the top five countries by international tourist arrivals. Detailed data and insights The tool generates a visually appealing slide with detailed data and insights. Tarek explains the process of editing and refining the generated slides to meet specific needs. The Text to Slide Mode Tarek demonstrates the text to slide mode by pasting a long text about key success factors for post-merger integration in banking. Data generation The tool summarizes the text into a concise slide with bullet points and icons. They also show the sketch to slide mode by uploading a hand-drawn image, which the tool converts into a PowerPoint slide. The tool supports various image formats, including JPEG, PNG, and PDF. The Custom Brand Identity Feature Tarek explains the custom brand identity feature, which allows users to upload their firm's PowerPoint templates. The tool can save and apply custom colors, fonts, and slide masters. A prompting guide and video tutorials are available to help users effectively use the tool. Tarek mentions the importance of proper prompting to get the best results from the AI. Pricing and Subscription Details Tarek talks about the pricing and mentions discounts available for annual subscriptions and partnerships. The tool is designed for B2B clients, including consulting firms and independent consultants. Tarek discusses the possibility of working with freelancers and organizations like Umbrex to offer special pricing. The tool is integrated with PowerPoint, making it easy for users to access and use. Security and Data Privacy Tarek addresses concerns about data security and privacy when using Scalar AI. The tool uses enterprise LLMs and follows strict data retention policies, ensuring data is encrypted and anonymized. The tool generates slides on the user's device, not on Scalar AI's servers, maintaining data privacy. Tarek mentions that the tool is compliant with GDPR and can meet the security requirements of government entities. The Genesis Story of Scalar.AI Tarek shares the background of Scalar AI, including his experience as a consultant and his co-founders' technical expertise. The idea for the tool came from the need to automate workflows and create professional slides for consulting clients. The founders spent a significant amount of time in stealth mode, refining and testing the product. The tool is now entering the commercialization stage, with plans to expand its user base and features. Scalar.AI and the Consulting Industry Tarek discusses the potential impact of Scalar AI on the consulting industry. Tarek emphasizes the tool's ability to save time and improve productivity for consultants. They plan to continue refining the tool and exploring partnerships with organizations like Umbrex. Timestamps: 02:21: Features and Functionality of Scalar AI 02:37: Demonstration of Scalar AI's Capabilities 04:11: Text to Slide and Sketch to Slide Modes 22:15: Custom Brand Identity and Prompting Guide 22:36: Pricing and Subscription Details 31:08: Security and Data Privacy 36:14: Backstory and Development of Scalar AI Links: Website: getscalar.ai This episode on Umbrex: https://umbrex.com/wp-admin/post-new.php?post_type=unleashed#:~:text=https%3A//umbrex.com/unleashed/240677/ Unleashed is produced by Umbrex, which has a mission of connecting independent management consultants with one another, creating opportunities for members to meet, build relationships, and share lessons learned. Learn more at www.umbrex.com. *AI generated timestamps and show notes.
Join Simtheory: https://simtheory.aiRegister for the STILL RELEVANT tour: https://simulationtheory.ai/16c0d1db-a8d0-4ac9-bae3-d25074589a80---The hype train is 2026 knows only Moltbot (RIP Clawdbot). In this episode, we unpack the viral open-source AI assistant that's taken over the internet what it actually does, why everyone's losing their minds, and whether it's worth the $750/day token bills some users are racking up. We dive deep into why locally-run skills and CLI tools are beating computer-use clicking, how smaller models like GPT-5 Mini are crushing it in agentic workflows, and why the real magic is in targeted context - not massive swarms. Plus: Kimi K2.5 drops as a near-Sonnet-level model at 1/10th the price, we debate whether SaaS is dead, and yes – there are TWO Kimi K2.5 diss tracks. One made by Opus pretending to be Kimi. It might just slap?CHAPTERS:0:00 Intro - Still Relevant Tour Update0:48 What is Moltbot? The Viral AI Assistant Explained3:57 Token Bill Shock: $750/Day and Anthropic Bans5:00 The Dream of Digital Coworkers on Mac Minis6:52 Why CLI Tools & Skills Beat Computer-Use Clicking10:57 Why This Way of Working Is Genuinely Exciting14:47 Smaller Models Crushing It: GPT-5 Mini & Targeted Context17:30 Wild Agentic Behavior: Chrome Tab Hijacking & Auto-Retries20:10 Security Architecture: Locked-Down Machines & Enterprise Use24:01 AI Building Its Own Tools On-The-Fly27:08 The Fear & Overwhelm of Rapid Progress29:10 2026: The Year of Agent Workers31:43 The Challenge of Directing AI Work (Everyone's a Manager Now)37:24 Skills Will Take Over: Why MCPs & Atlassian Can't Stop Us40:38 Real-World Use Cases: Doctors, Lawyers & Accountants46:28 Cost Solutions: Build Workflows Around Cheaper Models52:58 Kimi K2.5: Sonnet-Level Performance at 1/10th the Price1:00:55 The "1,500 Tool Calls" Claim: Marketing vs Reality1:05:23 The Kimi K2.5 Diss Tracks (Opus vs Kimi)1:08:08 Demo: Black Hole Simulator & Self-Trolling CRM1:12:55 Is SaaS Dead?1:14:30 BONUS: Full Kimi K2.5 Diss TracksThanks for listening. Like & Sub. Links below for the Still Relevant Tour signup and Simtheory. The future is open source, apparently. xoxo
Send us a textInvest in pre-IPO stocks with AG Dillon & Co. Contact aaron.dillon@agdillon.com to learn more. Financial advisors only. www.agdillon.com00:00 - Intro00:07 - Decagon's $250M Round Triples Valuation to $4.5B01:17 - xAI Gets $2B From Tesla After $20B Series E02:06 - Synthesia Raises $200M at $4B as ARR Targets Hit $200M03:25 - SpaceX Eyes June 2026 IPO With $50B Raise at $1.5T03:52 - SpaceX Starship V3 Heads for Mid-March04:27 - SpaceX Starlink Lands Gulf Air Deal as Fleet Rollout Begins Mid-Year05:19 - Richard Socher's Recursive Talks $4B Valuation and Big Compute Spend06:12 - Ricursive Hits $4B Valuation Two Months After Launch With $300M Series A07:04 - Automation Anywhere in Talks to Buy C3.AI and Go Public by Merger08:02 - Harvey Buys Hexus as $8B Secondary Valuation Holds Flat08:54 - Anduril Plans 5,500-Job Long Beach Buildout as Valuation Jumps 157%09:49 - Anthropic Brings Slack and Figma Into Claude as Valuation Tops $370B10:54 - Anthropic Wins GOV.UK Pilot to Build AI Assistant for Job Seekers11:48 - Anthropic Forecasts $18B Sales This Year, $55B Next, But Pushes Profit to 202813:02 - Moonshot's Kimi K2.5 Upgrades to Omni as Valuation Target Moves Toward $5B13:53 - OpenAI Preps for Q4 2026 IPO14:32 - OpenAI's $100B Raise Takes Shape With Amazon at $50B and SoftBank at $30B15:17 - OpenAI Launches Prism on GPT-5.2 as Science Usage Hits 8.4M Messages a Week16:28 - Tether Launches USAT With Anchorage as US Stablecoin Rules Tighten17:47 - Redwood Upsizes Series E to $425M as Google Joins and Valuation Clears $6B18:56 - US DOE Cuts Nuclear Rulebook by a Third as Startups Raise $1B+19:51 - Perplexity Signs $750M Microsoft Cloud Deal While Keeping AWS Preferred
In this week's episode of the Rich Habits Podcast, Robert Croak and Austin Hankwitz answer your questions!---
Dr. Deb Muth 0:03There’s a quiet shift happening in healthcare right now, and most doctors aren’t talking about it yet. People aren’t chasing diagnoses anymore. They’re exhausted by them. I see it every single day in my clinic. People who come in with stacks of paperwork, portals full of results, and a list of diagnoses longer than their grocery receipt, yet they’re still not living their lives. And they’ll say to me, Dr. Deb, I don’t want another label. Dr. Deb Muth 0:32 I just want my life back. If you’ve ever been told this is just how your body is, if you’ve been diagnosed, rediagnosed, and then dismissed, if you’ve been handed labels but never handed a roadmap, today’s episode is for you. Because we are officially entering what I call the post diagnosis era and it’s changing everything about how healing actually happens. So grab your cup of coffee or tea and let’s settle in to let’s talk wellness. Now, before we dive in, we need to take a quick pause to thank today’s sponsor. And when we come back, we’re going to talk about why diagnoses are no longer the most important thing about you. Dr. Deb Muth 1:17Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? And infrared saunas don’t just relax you, they detox your body, balance hormones, and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my health tech sauna, and right now you can save $500 with my code at healthtechhealth.com Dr. Muth req 25 so here’s some truth for me. Dr. Deb Muth 0:47It was three years ago Christmas that I received my Ms. Diagnosis. And I remember it very clearly. It was the day before, two days before Christmas Eve, that I got the call and I heard the words, you have white matter brain disease. That’s consistent with Ms. And I immediately stopped in my tracks and thought, okay, well, this is just the way it is. We’re gonna fight this. We’re gonna figure this out. And it led me down a deeper path of healing and spirituality and emotional growth. And there were some really difficult days ahead for me because I remember thinking, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna practice what’s going to happen in my life? And every year at this time, I reflect back to that day that I got the call that really changed my life. And not for the worse, but for the better. It changed the way I was thinking about life. Dr. Deb Muth 3:01It changed the way I was complaining about things being ungrateful for all the amazing things that I have in my life. Not intentionally, but just living the American life. Right. Dr. Deb Muth 3:14And striving for more and wanting more and chasing more and doing more, and never really having the opportunity to just be present and just really think about life and enjoy what the Lord has given us and enjoy what’s around me, the people in my life, the family that I have, the amazing practice that I have, and the amazing people I get to work with and change lives with. And it really changed me for the better. And I’ve watched diagnoses like this change people for the worse and for them to sink deep into a depression and give up and. And live to their label instead of living to their potential. And that’s why I think this episode is so important for us, because we all have a choice in life. When we get dealt something kind of difficult, we can let it consume us and let it take every ounce of life from us, or we can allow it to become the fuel that makes us better, makes us contribute to life maybe differently, but in a better way. So, you know, I know that this idea of letting diagnoses lose their power can be really uncomfortable for some people, because there’s people that are waiting for that diagnosis. I’m in some. Some social media groups, and I’m listening and reading to people who are saying, I’m so angry I didn’t get the Ms. Diagnosis today. I’m so angry I didn’t get the Lyme diagnosis today. I’m so upset that they can’t find anything wrong with me. And I understand. Dr. Deb Muth 5:20I know the feeling of wanting to put a name to what you’re feeling so that you have validation and you have power around this diagnosis, and you can prove to people that what you’re feeling is not in your head. I get all of that. But for many people, the original diagnosis is meant to help guide treatment in the conventional sense. It’s a created, shared language that we have, and it brings clarity. But for many people, you give that label and that name so much power and so much control over your life and who you are and what you’re being. And that’s not what the label is meant for. Somewhere along the line, medicine started confusing naming with healing. And today, we have more diagnoses than ever. We have more testing than ever. We have so many thousands of specialists, and yet people are sicker. They’re more inflamed, they’re more exhausted, they’re more confused than ever. And that’s not just a coincidence. That is how the system is meant to work. It’s meant to confuse you. Dr. Deb Muth 6:44It’s meant to keep you dependent on it. It’s meant to. Meant to keep you on medical management for the rest of your life. And by doing that, we enrich the pharmaceutical companies to the point where their whole role is to continue to create drugs that you need to be on for the rest of your life. And the hard truth about all of this that I’ve seen in my practice is for many patients, the diagnosis really becomes their identity. They own it, they gravitate to it. It’s who they are. It also becomes their prison because they only live confined inside the diagnosis. I can’t do this because I can’t do that, because if I do this, this will happen, because I have. They’ve capped their ceiling of life based on a couple of words that somebody gave them at a point in their life when they were so low and potentially so desperate that they needed that name to identify themselves and what was going on. And instead of asking, why is this happening? Dr. Deb Muth 8:05Why are these symptoms happening? What’s causing these symptoms? They’re told, this is what you have, and this is what you’re going to have to live with. And instead of restoring function, these people become managed. Like I said, they’re managed with drugs. They’re managed inside the system. And instead of healing, they’re monitored with this blood test and that blood test and this MRI and that mri. Instead of providing hope, they’re handed a lifelong prescription with expectations that do nothing but decline. So you walk out of that room with this expectation that your life is never going to be the same, that your function is going to decline, your neurological disease is going to take over eventually, you’re going to be put in a home, you’re going to lose everything you have because you’re not going to be able to afford the care that you need. And that’s the expectations of our healthcare system today. When you’re labeled with a chronic illness diagnosis, and for a woman, especially women, this is magnified because their symptoms are told to them as. It’s stress, it’s hormones, it’s anxiety, it’s aging, it’s motherhood, and then, of course, it’s perimenopause. Like that is some major traumatic thing that should disrupt your entire life. Yet it shouldn’t, and it does, and it doesn’t have to. And of course, my favorite is always, but your labs are normal. We don’t know what’s wrong with you. It must just be in your head. Dr. Deb Muth 9:53And this is why women are done being dismissed, why this shift is happening now that we are empowering women to take back Their lives, take back who they are and take back how they’re being treated in the healthcare system. And it is one of the most important things that we can do right now is to give women their power back so that they can stand strong in who they are and in their intuition and fight and say, no, this is not happening to me right now. I am not accepting this label. I’m not accepting this diagnosis. I will fight, I will find answers, and I will do what I need to do to be the woman that I want to be. So why is this conversation exploding right now? Well, there’s actually three big reasons, and first and foremost, it’s over. Diagnosis, burnout. People are collecting diagnoses without solutions. Autoimmune labels, syndromes, vague neurological names, but no one’s connecting the dots. Dr. Deb Muth 11:02You see, when you start to stack these labels on top of each other, one after the next after the next, you know, it’s celiac disease, it’s Hashimoto’s, it’s fibromyalgia, it’s autoimmune. You know, rheumatoid arthritis. It’s. Whatever it is, it’s long haul Covid. These days, no one is putting these connections together to say, why are you developing so many diseases that are so similar in nature, ones that just kind of domino after each other? Nobody’s looking at your immune system. Nobody’s measuring it, Nobody’s telling you how well it’s working. No one’s supporting it. They’re just throwing these biological drugs at you. And if there’s an autoimmune disease and sending you on your way and saying, this is what you have to look forward to for the rest of your life. But don’t worry, these side effects are rare, including cancer. It does not make sense to me that we are not looking at the root cause for all of these crazy diagnoses that we are labeling people with today. And I am guilty of it myself, because within the system that we work, we have to label something in order for you to receive the care that you need, for your insurance, to pay for the treatment, for the tests, for the visits. There has to be a label. And that’s what we call an ICD10 code. And if we don’t have the appropriate label, none of what we’re recommending gets covered for you. And that’s the label game began. The second thing is long haul Covid. And post viral illnesses. Dr. Deb Muth 12:47Millions of people were told, we don’t know why, and then we sent them home to figure it out by themselves. We don’t know why your immune system is failing, we don’t know why you’re having these clotting issues that are happening. But don’t worry, these clotting issues really are not that severe. They’re mild in nature. You’ll never have to worry about it. And we’re not going to treat it even though it’s four times the level that’s normal, because we’re going to wait until it’s 10 times the level of normal to even worry about it at this point. Dr. Deb Muth 13:19And it will take us 25 to 30 years before we understand any of the risks and barriers that have happened from these post viral illnesses that have occurred in our environment and the ones that are in the future to come. Because it takes time for us to study things, it takes time for us to figure it out, takes time for us to train the practitioners, and it takes time for us to accept something different than we thought was reality. And that is the problem that we have today with these post viral illnesses that are long acting, that are retriggering new viruses, retriggering old illnesses like Lyme, reactivating things like Epstein Barr virus. It will take decades before this becomes mainstream. And right now it’s fringe medicine and it’s not realistic. And those of us that are speaking about it are chastised and gone after, but by our medical communities and we are told that we are the crazy ones. And that is how medicine has always been. Way in the beginning, and I forget the doctor’s name, who started just observing that when medical students worked on cadavers and then came into the labor and delivery ward and delivered babies, these women were getting sick with infections and they were dying. And he said, what if we just washed our hands between the cadaver and the delivery? Would we save lives? And he did a small study and he was right. And over time he was made fun of and he was put into insane asylums and he was locked away. And now today we would never think of entering a room and working on a patient without washing our hands beforehand. But that took 30 years for that one concept of washing hands to be adopted. And it destroyed one man’s life because he simply asked the question, what if it’s a crazy society that we live in, It’s a crazy outlook that we have on medicine and asking questions. And sometimes I wonder, is it truly science or is it politically driven? And I think the answer is it’s both. And the third thing that we have is technology. And technology is outpacing wisdom by far. Hands down, AI, advanced labs and imaging can identify everything. Now using AI, but without context, it creates a fear. Dr. Deb Muth 16:08And instead of clarity, without context, using AI to interpret labs makes absolutely no sense. Without context and understanding and us actually training this LLM model, the AI doesn’t really know what it, what it means. And someday it will, I’m sure, but right now it doesn’t. So as everyone is taking to AI to treat themselves and create a protocol and diagnose themselves and understand their labs and know that it is without context that you are doing this, and research is wonderful, but without having somebody truly understand you and the art of healing and the art of medicine, this is going to get lost and you will not have the information that you truly need simply by using chat GPT. Now I’ve created my own version called Venari and I hope that this will be much better because it will have context. It will have 15,000 protocols that I have used for the last 25 years. It will have lots of research. It has all of the research databases that we can connect to. It has training that I have given it using my brain and how I see a client every single day in practice. So when you’re using our Venari app, you will be able to have that context. You will be able to have that pushback and that voice. And not only that, you will have the option then to work alongside someone to help you identify that context that you’re looking for. Does this make sense? Dr. Deb Muth 17:53I’ve seen this a lot in the peptide world, where in these Facebook groups, people are talking about the peptide stacks that they’re using and they’re telling people that it’s okay to use any peptide you want because they’re just small chain branch amino acids. And that can’t be farther from the truth because there are some peptides you would not want to use because they can stimulate the growth of cells. And if you have cancer or if you have a history of this, there are some peptides that we need to avoid. And unfortunately, AI doesn’t understand that yet and doesn’t know that yet. And it’s just creating stacks. And people are creating stacks without understanding what they’re doing. And I watched my best friend do this as she was learning peptides and she had cancer and it created an aggressive sarcoma. And I believe the peptides had a lot to do with that because it stimulated the growth of the cells. And it wasn’t until after she had passed away that we found this journal of hers that she was studying peptides and recognized that this could have contributed to her advanced cancer. And if you don’t have that context and you’re using AI to create these stacks for you, you can put yourself in harm’s way. And so AI technology, I think, is going to be fantastic in a lot of ways. It’s going to have its downfalls. And you’re going to need an expert when you’re using AI. You’re not going to just be able to treat yourself with this. You know, understanding that more data doesn’t always equal healing, and more data can be helpful. But again, you have to understand how to put those pieces together, how to ask the right question questions. And for that, you need somebody who has seen thousands and thousands of cases to find the missing pieces for you. Because AI is not going to do that unless it’s been trained to do that. Vanari has been trained to do that. Dr. Deb Muth 20:01It’s been trained to push back and look at lime and mold and toxins and chemicals and metals and all of those things. But there is no other AI bot out there, LLM that has been trained to do that using clinical data that I use every single day in my practice. And people are finally realizing that, you know, they’re understanding that although this world of AI and technology is amazing, it has its limitations, just like practitioners have their limitations. We don’t know everything. We are not perfect. We are human. And humans make errors and we miss things. With or without technology, we miss things. And part of it is because we just don’t know what we don’t know yet. And sometimes it’s because we have our blinders on, and sometimes it’s just simply because we don’t have the information today that we’re going to have five years from now. And here’s what I teach instead. I teach the seenet last. And that’s what we built it on. Restore and root. Rise and restore. Sorry, that is my methodology. And it’s in the scene at last book. And it starts with healing. It starts with asking better questions. So instead of asking, what do you have? We want to ask, what has your body been exposed to? What symptoms are underperforming? What’s driving the inflammation for you? When you have joint pain and you have muscle pain and you have achiness, that is not normal. Dr. Deb Muth 21:38I don’t care if you’re 20 or you’re 80, it is not normal. And yes, I did say 80, because we are not supposed to have that kind of inflammation at 80. And why are we underperforming? Why is our Brain not working correctly? Why is our mood not working? Why can’t my body push up a hill? Why can’t I lift 10 pounds? What’s going on? Why can’t I recover from that activity? What’s interfering with my ability to repair and heal after I’ve done some things that I need to do? What’s keeping your nervous system stuck in this survival mode, in this fight or flight mode? Why can’t I get past that? Sometimes that answer is really simple and sometimes that answer, it is so hard and so complicated and it is so many things that are causing this body to be stuck. And sometimes it’s a six month fix, and sometimes it’s a six year fix and sometimes it’s decades long. And it is one of the most challenging things as a practitioner to get clients to understand and to be on the other side of the table and not get you that quick fix. It is extremely difficult for us as well when we are not seeing the results that we think we should see. We need to focus on function over diagnosis, root cause over labels. Dr. Deb Muth 23:09What is driving all this inflammation and certainly restoration over resignation. Do not resign to the fact that you have this life altering disease that is never going to change. Because if we find the root and we restore the body, you don’t have to live in that death sentence that you’ve been given of a diagnosis, whether it’s fibromyalgia, MS, Alzheimer’s disease, celiac disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, it does not matter what that diagnosis is. We can change it, we can make it better, we can reduce the symptoms, we can improve your life. Maybe not in ways that you are absolutely looking for, maybe not in a perfect world, but we can change the trajectory of where your life is going. And it’s because you’re not an ICD9 code or an ICD10 code. You’re not a code, you’re not an MRI result, you’re not a lab result, you’re a human body asking support, not a name. And I say that with a little hesitation because so many people are looking for the name. So many people are angry that someone didn’t find the name. I have clients that come to me that are so angry that the conventional medicine system did not identify their Lyme disease, that they’re looking for someone to sue and there is no one to sue because they didn’t find it, because sometimes they just don’t know. You’re asking for conventional medicine, practitioner and system to provide for you a label that is not within their wheelhouse to do. Because the way they treat Lyme disease and the way an eyelads practitioner looks at Lyme disease and has. Has the ability to test differently are two very different things. Dr. Deb Muth 25:27You’re asking for a system to perform in a way that they are not trained and guided to do. Then you’re looking and asking for somebody to place blame for an illness that you have, that you have yet taken ownership for. And I know that sounds harsh, and I know there’s going to be a lot of people that are angry at me for saying that. But I sit in front of you as someone who had Lyme disease, who had mold mycotoxin illness, who had high viral titers, who had post Covid peripheral neuropathy, who had the diagnosis of ms, who has white matter brain disease, who treated all of it not in the conventional world, who has halted the white matter disease and regrew her brain by 1.5 standard deviations, which is unheard of in 18 months. So I can say this to you. There is no one to blame for your lack of diagnosis or your diagnosis. It is life. It is what happens to us. And you have a choice at the crossroad to either take the path of hatred and anger and bitterness and blame and never getting better a result of that, or you have the ability to take the path of curiosity and openness and willingness to change and willingness to walk down a path that is different than what the conventional medicine is telling you to do. And those are your choices and you get to make those choices. But what you don’t get to do is blame some someone else and try to destroy them for something that they are not able to do. That is not what we get to do in this life. Dr. Deb Muth 27:29It is not right and it is not fair. If someone has truly injured you, that’s different. That’s different. But this looking to blame somebody because they didn’t give you a label, Ridiculous in my opinion. And if you’re listening and thinking right now, I’ve been diagnosed, but I’m not better, I want you to hear this clearly. You are not broken. You are not crazy, and you are not done. Sometimes the most healing moment isn’t getting that diagnosis. It’s realizing that the diagnosis was never the whole story. And that’s where the real healing begins. When we look at the entire story, we look at your entire life from the beginning to where you are now and what has happened to get you there. And once we get that, then we can put you back together. Not in the old way, in a new way in an amazing way, in a way that you would cherish your life for every moment that you have of it. Good, bad and ugly. A diagnosis should not be the doorway. It’s not a dead end. It is just the beginning. Remember, you don’t need another diagnosis. You need your life back. And that’s what’s important. Dr. Deb Muth 29:19We are living in a moment where medicine is being forced to evolve not because systems want to, but because patients are demanding better. This post diagnosis era isn’t about rejecting science, it’s about using it wisely. It’s about restoring function, dignity and hope. And I hope that if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who’s been labeled but not yet helped. Because sometimes the most powerful healing starts when someone finally feels seen. Thank you for being with me here today. If you haven’t already, make sure you subscribe and follow. Let’s talk Wellness now on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you’re listening and I’ll see you next time. Until then, keep asking better questions, trusting your body and remembering you are more than a diagnosis.The post Episode 254 – Beyond the Diagnosis: Healing in a Post-Diagnosis Era first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.
How to Use AI for B2B Storytelling Without Losing Your Brand So many B2B companies and marketing teams waste budget on generic content that fails to resonate or support core business goals. In an era where AI-generated is everywhere, smaller B2B brands often struggle to maintain a unique identity while competing against larger firms with massive content engines. The key to staying relevant lies in a B2B brand’s ability to be authentic, human-centric, and strategically consistent despite the pressure to automate everything. So how can B2B brands effectively integrate AI into their marketing workflows without losing their unique voice and brand integrity? That's why we're talking to Nick Usborne (Founder, Story Aligned), who shared his expertise on leveraging AI through the lens of strategic storytelling. During our conversation, Nick discussed the critical distinction between simple narrative and a brand’s unique story, highlighting a significant gap where only 7% of top AI prompt libraries actually focus on storytelling. He shared actionable advice on building a “story vault,” training staff to avoid “brand drift,” and enforcing consistent AI usage to maintain the trust of the audience. Nick also underscored the importance of keeping human elements at the forefront of content creation to prevent AI from feeling overly mechanical, and advocated for a balanced approach that ensures scalable growth without sacrificing a brand's authenticity. https://youtu.be/dtgvg2-XXoU Topics discussed in episode: [02:53] The “Why” Behind AI Adoption: Why companies must embrace AI not just for efficiency, but to avoid being left behind by competitors who are already scaling their reach. [04:10] The “Moat” of Storytelling: Why narrative and voice can be easily copied by AI, but your brand's unique “lived story” is the only defensible moat you have. [11:27] Pitfalls of Inconsistent AI Use: The dangers of “shadow AI” use by employees (e.g., Using personal accounts vs. company custom GPTs) and how it leads to brand drift. [16:46] The Human Element vs. AI: Nick explains why AI can describe the beach but can't “feel the sand between its toes,” and why human “messiness” is key to connection. [24:26] Building a Story Vault: Nick provides a practical framework for formalizing your brand's folklore—from founder stories to customer service wins—so they can be systematically used in AI content. [28:17] Actionable Steps for Marketers: Three immediate steps to take: build your story vault, interview key stakeholders (founders, early employees), and analyze customer service transcripts for sentiment. [30:11] The Problem with “Killer Prompt” Libraries: Why copying “top 20 prompt” lists is a strategic mistake that leads to generic, non-differentiated content. Companies and links mentioned: Nick Usborne on LinkedIn Story Aligned Transcript Nick Usborne, Christian Klepp Nick Usborne 00:00 AI can do a wonderful job in many ways, but it’s never walked down the beach and felt the sand between its toes. It’s read about it. It’s never eaten ice cream. It’s read about that, but it’s never felt it. So that’s what I mean by lived experience. I think that content and stories that truly resonate with people you use those kind of touch points the the deeply human side of being alive. And like, say, I think AI can get close when you prompt it really well, but also, there’s a messiness that makes us recognize one another, the little mistakes we make. That’s what makes us human. We are messy. AI, it’s not very good at being messy. You can ask it to be messy, and it’ll try to figure that out, but it’s really not the same. And like I say, I think people are very sensitive to this kind of nuance. Christian Klepp 00:51 When brands rely on the same AI tools and prompts, they start to sound like everyone else. That loss of voice can hurt trust and lead to something called Brand drift. So how can B2B Marketing teams scale content with AI while staying true to their story? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Nick Usborne, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder of Story Aligned, a training program for Marketing teams that want to scale content using AI while protecting the integrity of their brand story and voice. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Mr. Nick Usborne, welcome to the show, sir. Nick Usborne 01:32 Thank you very much. Thank you Christian. Thank you for having me. Christian Klepp 01:35 Pleasure to have you on the show. Nick, you know we had such a fantastic pre interview call. It was a bit of a you did drop a few hints and clues about what was to come, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I’m going to keep the audience in suspense a little while longer as I move us into the first question. So off we go. Nick Usborne 01:55 Okay. Christian Klepp 01:56 All right, so, Nick, you’re on a mission to equip Marketing teams to scale AI powered content while staying aligned with their organization, story and voice. So for this conversation, let’s focus on the topic of how to use AI for B2B content without losing trust. And it is at the time of the recording, the end of 2025 and of course, we’re going to talk about AI, but we’re going to zoom in on something specific as it pertains to B2B content and a little bit of branding in there as well. But I wanted to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So the first question is, why do you believe it’s so important for brands and their Marketing teams to embrace AI so that they can scale? And the second question is, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? I think that’s one thing that you mentioned in our previous conversation, the whole the whole piece about prompts and guardrails. Nick Usborne 02:53 Well, the first question, why do companies need to embrace AI? And the ridiculous answer to that. It’s not a good answer, but it’s true is that because everyone else is, because your competitors are, and they will create content at scale while you are not, and they will achieve reach that you can’t achieve without AI. And in fact, if they do it well, their content, their new content, will be very good, content deeply researched beyond perhaps what you can do. So it’s like everything within AI right now, like, like, Why? Why do all the companies like open AI and Google and Meta, why they all racing? Because if they don’t, someone else will get there first. And it’s, I’m not saying it’s a great reason, but I think it is the fundamental reason for companies to embrace AI, is that you will be left behind if you don’t. This is a transformational moment, and as much as we’d like to have choice, I think in this matter, we don’t have a lot of choice. So that’s my answer to that question. Repeat the second question for me. Christian Klepp 04:00 Absolutely, absolutely so based on, based on that, like, why does this approach require the right prompts and guardrails? Nick Usborne 04:10 As part of my business, I’m constantly researching this, and in particular, I’m researching the prompts people do so when say, could be writers coders, but in our world. Let’s say writers, principally, or marketers, are using AI. They’re using prompts, and they’re generally prompting about two things. One is narrative, like, what should we say? Or, you know, please write us a blog post about x. So that’s the that’s the topic, that’s the narrative. And then they’ll put in something say, oh, please do it in a voice that is authoritative and yet accessible. All right, so now that’s a voice. What they haven’t mentioned is what I think is the foundational layer, which is, which is story. And that’s important, because story is the only thing that is uniquely yours, if you have an narrative, if you, if you have voice, if you talk about something in a particular way, I can copy that with AI. I can copy it at scale. I can, I can look at the transcripts of Christian podcasts, and I can say, oh, I want to do one in exactly. Tell her the same topic. I can, you know, so when you focus on narrative, on what you write about in voice. I can copy it. There’s no moat. The only moat you have is with story, because every company’s story is unique. We can look at origin stories, foundation stories, we can look at customer stories through case studies, things like that. Those are always unique. No one else has Apple’s origin story. No one else has virgin Atlantic’s Founder’s story, etc. But we did some research recently. Actually, we did some research months ago, and I reconfirmed it earlier this week. I ran it. I ran it all again to look at the data. If you look at the top 20 prompt libraries that you know the big, trustworthy companies and organizations that put out prompt libraries for companies. If you look at the top 20 libraries and the 1000s and 1000s of prompts within there, 76% of those prompts are about the narrative. What to say? 17 are about voice. How do you sound? Only 7% relate to story. So this, to my mind, is where we have a problem. We have a disconnect. Everyone is going crazy, prompting for narrative and story, both of which have 0, zero mode, anyone can copy them at scale. And only 7% this very small percentage, are actually focusing on the one thing that is uniquely theirs and cannot be copied or challenged. So that when you say, when you, when you say I’m on a mission, that’s the mission for me to say, Hey guys, wake up. You’re You’re prompting the wrong things in the wrong way. Let’s like, go back and look at story Christian Klepp 07:12 Absolutely, absolutely. It almost sounds like an oxymoron to us to a certain degree, because you’re saying scaling B2B content using AI without losing trust. Because, you know, the narrative that I keep seeing on social media, particularly LinkedIn, is that if people are using AI, there is a bit of a trust factor there. But I think it’s to your point and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s being able to embrace AI and you leveraging it the right way, so it’s not, it’s not, it’s not to replace, it’s not to replace the writers, right, or to replace the Marketers, I hope not. Nick Usborne 07:50 It may replace some. But, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, you’re right, and the keyword you mentioned there is trust. I think, I think trust is going to be the most valuable commodity that a company can have in the months and years to come, because people don’t actually don’t if we’re talking about brand. So we’re trying to protect brand with story, right? And brand is something that a lot of companies have spent millions of dollars building and protecting over years or decades and well, one of the things let me come back to trust in a moment. But if I’m looking at brand, and I’m looking at all the stuff goes out there, it either builds brand or it burns brand. And if you burn brand, you lose trust. So if you’re going out with a whole bunch of content that sounds like everyone else is that it’s kind of meh. It’s ordinary. It’s in the middle, which is what AI is really good at. Without the right prompting, it will give you kind of in the middle, mediocre output. So you got to be much better at prompting than just like a, I don’t know, being careless about it, or taking a shortcut, shortcuts, or being lazy about it, because then you get brand drift, and all of a sudden the brand doesn’t sound quite right. And when that happens, you lose trust. And when you lose trust, you lose revenue. I mean, you really do. And people are getting very sensitive to brand of brand trust we saw recently. Was it tracker barrel tried to just change its logo. People freaked out. People freaked out. Christian Klepp 09:27 It was an awful rebrand, but, yes. Nick Usborne 09:30 Yeah, but it wasn’t. These weren’t. These weren’t. Saying is, I don’t think the design is up to snuff. It’s like, don’t mess with my tracker barrel. We actually feel very strongly about the brands. Talk to people who are absolute fans of Apple. Doesn’t matter that it costs twice as much, perhaps as not quite as good. It’s Apple. It’s my brand. Don’t mess with my brand. So we’re very sensitive to our loyalty to brands. And in fact, in some sense, it’s brand define us like a football team, a baseball team, in part, we can be defined by the brands that we support, local, Pepsi. You know, it’s like everywhere. So when a company uses AI carelessly at scale and all of a sudden that blog post, it kind of sounds like them, but something’s a tiny bit off. And then that LinkedIn update. Again, yeah, it’s them, but again, it’s, did I say is that the same as they were six months ago? You get the you get these little these little things that sound off, and now you get brand drift. And now you get people feeling uneasy, and the public are sometimes we think we can just make the public believe whatever we want them to believe, or companies to believe whatever we want them to believe, but actually, individuals, in their home lives and in their business lives are very, very sensitive to brand and they’re very, very sensitive to voice and what they hear, and if it’s off, they really don’t like it, and that does translate into loss of trust, and that does directly translate into loss of revenue. Christian Klepp 11:07 Absolutely. I’m going to move us on to the next set of questions, particularly that one pertaining to key pitfalls that Marketers need to avoid when they’re trying to scale their B2B content using AI without losing trust. So what are some of these key pitfalls they should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? Nick Usborne 11:27 What I’m hearing from inside a number of companies is that there is an inconsistency in how people are using AI and even when systems are in place, that not everyone follows the system. So it’s early days. It is. These are messy times for, you know, working with AI within companies. So I think it’s really important that companies do have some frameworks in place, that people within the organization are using the same tools in the same way, and that they are encouraged to be consistent in what they do. So I’ve heard stories of where companies are set up, you know, they’re using Copilot, or whatever they use, and then some of the manager will walk by someone’s desk, and they’re actually, actually, they’re using Claude on their phone. That person like phone, and it’s like, well, yeah, but no, this is now, you know, you have no control. You also have to get people to do what they ask. I was talking to a Founder the other day. She has a PR (Public Relations) company, plenty of clients, and she’s smart. She’s created custom GPTs for each client. So each custom GPT is trained on with with a kind of database of information on that client and the content, so that you know when you when you ask it to do something else, it’s already has the context and the voice instructions and everything, and you can and it’s great, you get this consistency. But she says, what’s happening is some of her employees come in in the morning, they start work on client X, and they’re using that custom GPT. Then they move on to client Y, but they keep using the original custom GPT and not switching out. So the management has put in the structure in place to be consistent and to output the best, you know, the best content, but the employees are not always playing game, you know, going along with that. So so I do think we’re in a messy period now where companies are not entirely sure how to apply this, how to structure it, what kind of frameworks and guidance to put in place. What guardrails to put in place? Like? Again, I’ve heard horror stories of people grabbing content that should not be shared and putting it into a large language model and then turning that into customer facing or public facing content. Christian Klepp 13:57 Oh, plagiarism. Nick Usborne 14:04 So yeah, it is messy. So what I would say is, before you even try to make the best of the use of AI that you do, need to put systems and frameworks in place and educate your staff. So if you want your staff to use AI effectively give them access to training. Don’t just throw them at a tool and say, go for it, because they won’t know what to do with it, or they’ll be able to create stuff, but they won’t be able to create good stuff. So invest in the systems, invest in the frameworks and instructions, and invest in training for the people who are going to be using the tools. Christian Klepp 14:46 Definitely some relevant points. I wanted to go back to something you said, though, because I think it’s really important. It’s certainly one thing to have the prompts and the guardrails in place and some kind of like, framework and structures. But to your earlier point, how do you enforce that? And I think you gave a really good example about like, if you have a custom GPT, and then they resort to like, using. Um Claude on their personal accounts, and then it’s a little bit like the wild west out there, isn’t it? Nick Usborne 15:06 It is, it is, and it’s and it’s, how do you enforce it? Well, that’s going to be a company by company decision. Like, like the Founder with the PR of the PR company, when she was telling me about how her employees just weren’t doing what they were asked. I was like, part of you is thinking about, why haven’t you kind of cracked down on this? But again, it depends on the company and what options you have when it comes to enforcing stuff like this. But I do think you need to, because then if we circle right back, if you have people who are untrained, and that’s the company’s responsibility to train their employees. If you have people who are untrained and they’re using these tools inconsistently, that is when you far more likely then to see errors for, you know, unforced errors like publishing stuff that you shouldn’t but you’re also going to see more brand drift, because you’re going to get this inconsistency between output and that is a disaster. Like I say, companies have sometimes spent, in a decade, several years in establishing and building a trustworthy brand. And people are very unforgiving. You can, you can lose all that goodwill very, very quickly. So, yeah, training frameworks make sure people are, you know, working within those boundaries, but as a company, it’s your responsibility to help make that happen. Christian Klepp 16:29 Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You kind of brought this up already, but you mentioned that AI can help to scale content, but it can’t replicate your lived story, so please explain what you meant by that, and provide an example. If you can, Nick Usborne 16:46 AI can do a wonderful job in many ways, but you know, it’s never walked down the beach and felt the sand between its toes. It’s read about it. It’s never eaten ice cream. It’s read about that, but it’s never felt it. So that’s what I mean by lived experience. So I think that content and stories that truly resonate with people, you use those kind of touch points, the deeply human side of being alive and like say, I think AI can get close when you prompt it really well, but also there’s a messiness that makes us recognize one another, the little mistakes we make, that’s what makes us human. We are messy, and it’s not very good at being messy. You can ask it to be messy, and it’ll try to figure that out, but it’s really not the same. And like I say, I think people are very sensitive to this kind of nuance and the lived story. It’s the it’s the weird stuff. I think that resonates. So I’ve spent quite a bit of my career doing copywriting for companies, and for a long period, I was doing some freelance, a lot of freelance copywriting. So this is just a little side note, a little side story for you. I used to live on a hobby farm. We had some sheep and pigs and chickens and all that good stuff, the good life. And also had freelance customers. And I went in, and I was and I went, you know, you go out, you feed the animals, you come in, I sit down to work, and my client said, this is just on the phone. This is even before the internet. Client said, Hey, you’re late. I was just out farming the pig and feeding the pigs. And the guy says, what? And this, I hadn’t realized. I never told him that I lived on a farm. He thought somewhere. So anyway, we talked a little bit about the pigs, then we get to work. So the project we’re working on worked out really well, and it won an award. So we fly off to your hometown, Toronto, for the awards ceremony, direct marketing awards ceremony, and he stands up and he says, Thank you very much. Blah, blah, blah. And special thanks to Nick Usborne, the pig farming copywriter. And I’m like, I’m like, in the audience, and I’m thinking, oh, please no. This guy is like, rebranding me constantly in front of all my peers, all my potential clients for next year. Big drama turns out so, so that that’s messy, all right? AI wouldn’t do that, you wouldn’t imagine that it wouldn’t do that. That’s a deeply human moment of my humiliation and him laughing, and everyone slapping me on the back and laughing and asking about my pigs. Turns out, over the next 12 months, I got a few phone calls out of the blue. And I say, Hello, Nick Usborne. I said, Oh, is that Nick Usborne? The cover of James Barber. And I say, why? Yes. And so I actually got work out of that, because it was such a distinct difference from every other copywriter out there. I was the only copywriter who had pigs. So that was just a fun story, but it also speaks to the difference between humans and AI, and it’s a live that’s a lived experience, and it’s a lived anecdote, and I tell the story, and it’s a true story that is really important, I think so, even when we use AI, even when we use it at its best, and it can be really good when you use it well, I think everyone should keep leave space for the human in the loop, as they say, keep that human element in there, big for those stories. So I so I encourage companies to create what I call like a story vault. So there’s the obvious stories, like the Founder story, the origin story, the six original success story, also put in the little quirky stories, like that one I just described, and and make that part of your process. And also go, you know, if you’re creating something with AI and it’s a big project, take the time to go and interview someone, talk to someone, get a human story, put it in just because you’re using AI, doesn’t mean to say that everything you create has to be 100% AI, you can, you can? I do this all the time. I look for it a draft with AI, then I’d go back in and I’ll rewrite the beginning with an anecdote, like the small s story, not a big dramatic story, just a little story. And what it does then is that then connects it with us, because as people, we recognize stories. Story is profound to all of us. I think in every country in the world, parents read their children bedtime stories. It’s something we share in common. It’s how we communicate, and it’s how we recognize our humanity in a sense of like, if you tell me a story, you connect with me, and vice versa. So that’s why I think stories are so important in this world of AI, because if you just go AI, it can get a little cold, and sometimes, as a reader, you don’t quite understand what’s happening and why, but you kind of feel it. There’s an absence. There’s something missing, and that what’s what you feeling is missing is that human touch, that human element, Christian Klepp 21:59 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, there’s like, there’s like, telltale signs, right? Like em dash being one of them, Nick Usborne 22:06 em dash Christian Klepp 22:07 Yes, or Yeah. Or it tends to, like, regurgitate the same type of war. It’s like, I find it loves using the word landscape or navigate, you know, things of that nature, right? Nick Usborne 22:20 Yeah. Christian Klepp 22:21 Or uses these funny like, you know, the colon or for, for, for titles of episodes, for examples. Nick Usborne 22:30 In titles, even when I give it clear instructions, do not use them. So sometimes, when I create content like that is, I’ll create it in with one model like say, GPT5, and I’ll take it over to flawed, and I’ll say, hey, please edit and clean this up for me, and remove any, you know, repetition or whatever. And sometimes it comes back say, hey, looks pretty clean, pretty good. Other times it’ll change stuff. And then, of course, always I will, you know, I will review. And that’s the other thing that the companies need to think about. Is that, at the moment, content generation at scale within companies, it is a bit like a conveyor belt in a factory of all these boxes flying off the end into the FedEx back of the FedEx van, and without, without any kind of quality control, which, which is actually what you do have with income within you know, if you’re manufacturing, and you do have quality control, and you pick out every 20th item or whatever to make sure that it’s good, a lot of that isn’t happening, that isn’t happening with a lot of people using AI is people don’t even see it. It’s fully automated, like, like a week’s worth of social media is automated, or a month’s work worth, and no one, no human, has read it or reviewed it. It’s just flying out automatically. And that is where at some point you’re inevitably going to have a problem. And it may not be a big problem, it may be lots and lots of small problems, lots of lots of things sounding not quite right, and then all of a sudden, when you’ve got enough little things not sounding right, then you start getting a medium sized problem. Christian Klepp 24:06 Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. Okay. Now, you talked about it a little bit in the beginning, but talk to us about some of these, these frameworks and these processes that B2B companies can use to help them, you know, organize themselves and reap those benefits of AI without losing trust. Like, what are some of these processes and frameworks? Nick Usborne 24:26 I do some training, and I have done a few rubrics where people can kind of use those to formalize the process. But I think if we talk about story, and I think I already mentioned the idea of each company having a story vault, so be formal and deliberate about it. Everyone can chat about their company’s stories, but if I say to you, hey, is there a folder? Can I can I get a Google folder and find a compilation of all of these stories? And have you graded those stories in terms of how strong and relevant? And they are, and how engaging they might be, or how evocative they might be, and the answer is almost always no, the story is around. But there’s no story vault, and there’s no rubric in place to grade those stories and decide which might be the most appropriate points at which to share those stories. So it’s that, it’s that formalizing the process, and I don’t like being 100% rules based, but I think in the AI world right now, where we are in that kind of messy middle period, I think it’s really important to have some systems in place so that we do have a consistent output, so that when you so that your brand doesn’t suffer from brand drift, and that you don’t make some significant missteps along the way. So somebody within the organization needs to be responsible for this. Maybe it’s the Chief AI Officer, if you have one, or otherwise, somebody in Marketing. So yeah, help people with training, but also help them by giving them some framework, some rubrics and some just a system like, you know, hey, picked up a story from customer service, put it in the story vault, categorize it. Customer service in the story vault says someone else can come back and find it. So it’s not just word of mouth. It’s not accidental. There’s a place where people can go to and then you’re going to do the same with narrative, the things we say. And you have another vault, as it were, and another rubric to to assess voice, how we say it. So it’s just this formalization of the process, and also trying to make sure that people use these systems as you put them in place. So somebody’s got to be walking along behind, behind and sort of, and again, it’s like, I guess, like early days of anything. Not every, not everyone will love the process. Not everyone loves using AI. But it’ll come. It’ll come. People will get in their heart better, not only using AI, but doing it well and following these processes. Christian Klepp 27:02 Okay, fantastic, fantastic. Let me just quickly recap, because I was writing this down. So obviously, having a story vault, grading them if you can, if possible, having systems and frameworks in place, training the team and getting them to familiarize themselves with the systems having a vault for narrative and voice, I think was the other piece. And finally, using, using the systems, once you have them, not letting them collect dust, as it were, right? Nick Usborne 27:32 Like and it is, I get it right now. I get it. It’s hard for a lot of companies, because I think using AI has been very kind of mixed. Some companies have dived straight in. Others are resistant, particularly companies that have compliance issues, financial, medical stuff like that. They’re being very careful, very cautious, and for very good reason. So the rate of adoption is very uneven at the moment, Christian Klepp 28:01 Absolutely, absolutely, all right. Nick you’ve given us plenty here, right? But if we’re going to talk about actionable tips, like something that somebody who’s listening to this conversation that they can take action on right after listening to this interview, what are like some of the top three things you would advise them to do? Nick Usborne 28:17 Well, I guess first is just we’ve talked quite a bit about the story, the story of collecting stories. Just do that because, like I say, I think story is your is your superpower, because it is the only place where you have a moat you don’t in what you say and how you say it. Anyone can copy you, and I can automate copying you through AI as well, but I cannot steal your story, because it’s just not true if, if it’s not my story. So I’d always start there and again, start, start that. Build the vault, select the story and formalize that process. Interview the Founders, if you can, interview early employees, even if they’re retired, interview the first three clients, if you can access them, interview customer service. So often overlooked, customer service in one way or another, so long as that’s not all automated, if there’s still humans in that loop, then have conversations with them. And you can, you can, you can, get transcripts, customer service transcripts, and feed them into AI and say, hey, please analyze and summarize this. What are, what are the most powerful messages we can get from our customer service? Sort of stream of content? Do? Do a sentiment analysis? What are people upset about? What are people happy about? So, yeah, story, I think, is like, I say, it will be your motive, it will be your savior. So first start to formalize that process of getting story and then making sure that it finds a place, somewhere in your automation of, you know, AI generated content, Christian Klepp 29:58 Fantastic, fantastic stuff. Okay, soapbox time. What is the status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with, and why? Nick Usborne 30:11 I guess again, I’m just going to overlapping. I don’t know what a status quo, but the thing that I passionately disagree with is is every time you see most or a social media title that says top 20 killer, unbeatable prompts. Christian Klepp 30:31 Oh, yeah. Nick Usborne 30:32 No, no, no, absolutely, just, just no for two reasons. One is that they’re going to be generic. They’re not going to apply to your company in particular, they’ll be generic, and just because they work for someone else does not mean they’re going to work for you. And like I say, we did, I’ve done research on those prompt libraries, and only 7% of them even touch on story. So if I’m writing stories, the most important thing almost all of those prompt libraries are missing out on that. They’re just focusing on narrative and voice and ignoring stories. So not good and and, yeah, so, so that is, I don’t know whether the status quo, but it’s something I keep seeing, and it irritates me when I get it. I understand why they’re doing it, but not helpful for your company. Christian Klepp 31:18 Yeah, you and me both. I mean, those are the those are the pulse they attempt to ignore immediately. I mean, I just skim through it and see the prompts, and I’m like, Nah, but I think it’s human nature too, isn’t it? Like everybody wants to chase the next hack. They want to find that the you know, the shortcut, like the quickest route to get something done. And I get that, but it sometimes does more harm than good. Nick Usborne 31:43 Easy button, but also to be fair and to be a little bit more generous. This is early days, and so people are looking for help. And if it says top 20, this is, oh my goodness, thank you. I’ll take that now. Over time, that’ll change, and people will become a little more sophisticated, I think, but like us, like you. You know, I get it. I understand why those those posts and titles are attractive, and that’s why people create them. But we can do better. We can do better Christian Klepp 32:12 Absolutely, absolutely we can, and we will, hopefully, all right, here comes the bonus question. I’ve been thinking about this one, but Nick Usborne 32:23 I feel strangely nervous. I feel nervous, but it’s a bonus question. Christian Klepp 32:30 Just breathe. Just breathe. I mean, clearly from this conversation, you know, writing is in your blood, right? It’s something that you are passionate about, but it’s also something you’ve done professionally for a long time, I suppose. The bonus question is, if you had an opportunity to meet your favorite writer or author, living or dead, who would it be, and what would you talk about? Nick Usborne 32:55 One of the people, I really admire, and I’ve already spoken to him, is David Abbott. So David Abbott is a copywriter from from England, and he had an agency called Abbot Mead Vickers, and he was an amazing writer. So I’ve already met him. Who I haven’t met I would like to re write to meet is Susie Henry. She was the copywriter behind a series of advertisements in the UK for an insurance company, and she is just a delightful writer, so I told you, well, no, I hadn’t told you. Maybe I will tell you I’m like, when I started out copywriting, it was at the tail end of the Mad Men period, and creatives were the Kings and Queens, and copywriting was such a craft, it was something to be absolutely proud of, like we’d go through so many drafts, and it was, I was, you know, I was, I was a craftsman, learning from other craftsmen. And David, ever I met, he was in a fantastic writer, just written Susie Henry so good, very, very conversational writer, which was very unusual for that time. So I’d like to meet and talk with her, and I still can’t remember the fiction writer. He’s science fiction writer. I completely lost blank on his name, and I’ve actually met him once briefly, but I’d like to get back to him and chat, but I can’t, because he’s he’s since passed. Christian Klepp 34:19 Oh, I see, I see, I see. All right, well, that’s quite the list of people, but, um, but yeah. No, fantastic. No. Nick, thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. And please quick introduction to yourself and how people can get in touch with you. Nick Usborne 34:37 All right. Hi. My name is Nick Usborne, so my business build Story Aligned. So storyaligned.com and what we do there is pretty much, what I’ve talked about today is we train teams within companies to look at story, narrative and voice with a lot of emphasis on story, because that’s where the note is, so if you get a Story Aligned, you’ll find we have a white paper you can download. We have a blog that you can read, the description of the training. So yeah, if this interests you, if you find this an interesting topic, there’s plenty to do when you get there. So Story Aligned, A, L, I, G, N, E, D, yeah. Story Aligned. Christian Klepp 35:21 Fantastic, fantastic. And we’ll be sure to pop that into the show notes so that it’ll be easy for everyone to access. But once again, Nick, thank you. Nick Usborne 35:28 Sorry, one last thing, if you want to please opening myself up, if you want to just talk to me directly, you can write to me at nick@storyaligned.com. Christian Klepp 35:38 Perfect, perfect. Nick, once again, thanks so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Nick Usborne 35:44 Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It’s been a pleasure. Christian Klepp 35:47 Thank you. Bye for now. You.
Main pointsOpenAI's Financial Instability: OpenAI is facing a catastrophic financial burn of approximately $15 million daily, with projected losses exceeding $14 billion in 2026. This is coupled with a mass exodus of key leadership (CTO, Chief Research Officer, and Chief Scientist) and a massive $134 billion lawsuit from Elon Musk.The Component Crisis & Market Saturation: OpenAI's hoarding of GPUs, RAM, and SSDs has caused consumer prices to skyrocket (e.g., DDR5 RAM jumping from $300 to over $1,000). Despite this, newer models like GPT-5 are reportedly disappointing users, while Google's Gemini has surged to 650 million monthly active users.The "Agent" Marketing Myth: An internal Google playbook reveals that 99% of "AI Agents" currently on the market are merely "marketing buzzword packaging" consisting of simple API calls. True autonomous agents require a rigorous "AgentOps" infrastructure—including four-layer evaluation frameworks and security protocols—that most startups currently lack.Unsustainable Infrastructure & Economics: Experts warn that the AI bubble mirrors the 2008 housing crash. The "fundamental math" is failing: energy and capital costs are quintupling while performance gains diminish, requiring OpenAI to generate $2 trillion in annual revenue (15x current growth) just to remain viable.The AI Layoff Wave: Significant job cuts are being attributed to AI restructuring and automation, with 245,000 tech jobs lost in 2025. Major 2026 layoffs include 48,000 at UPS due to automation and 30,000 corporate roles at Amazon, signaling a shift from human capital to AI integration.Referenced X Users @BoringBiz_@nitinthisside_ @anon_opin
In this episode I sit down with the evil genius, who built an entire custom app using AI. And we're giving you the prompt FOR FREE! You take our prompt, implement it in your context, and you have a fun, custom sniper game for your next summer camp, winter retrat or d-now! [FREE] AI SNIPER APP BUILDER https://www.patreon.com/posts/free-ai-sniper-147099707?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link SHOW NOTES Shownotes & Transcripts https://www.hybridministry.xyz/186 ❄️ WINTER SOCIAL MEDIA PACK https://www.patreon.com/posts/winter-seasonal-144943791?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link HYBRID HERO MEMBERS GET IT FREE! https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry
Discover how to create newsletters that people actually want to open by combining the efficiency of AI with the authentic voice of your internal experts. In this episode of Content Amplified, Ben sits down with Olivia Martinez to discuss how Mission uses specific GPTs to ghostwrite for their leadership while maintaining a personal touch. Olivia breaks down the exact strategies used to increase open rates by over 15% and click-through rates by 3%.Key takeaways from this episode include:How to train a GPT to mimic the specific tone and cadence of a Subject Matter Expert.Why human review is a non-negotiable step in the AI content workflow.The data-backed reason you should send newsletters from a specific person rather than a brand name.A proven "1-2-3" newsletter structure (1 Big Idea, 2 Things to Check Out, 3 Things I'm Loving) that boosts engagement.Strategies for building relationships with busy executives to get them involved in content creation.About Olivia MartinezOlivia Martinez is the Director of Partner Marketing and Communications at Mission, a CDW company and AWS premier tier partner. With a background starting in healthcare administration, Olivia now focuses on growing influence with AWS sellers and overseeing Mission's external storytelling through PR, social media, and newsletters.Connect with Olivia and MissionLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviamartinez431/Mission Website: https://www.missioncloud.com/Text us what you think about this episode!
Setting up an IC-DISC the right way can mean the difference between maximizing tax savings and having issues down the road. In this episode of The IC-DISC Show, I sit down with Brian Schwam, IC-DISC specialist and tax attorney, to walk through the complete IC-DISC setup and compliance process from start to finish. This conversation was inspired by a CPA request for a comprehensive guide covering every step of the IC-DISC journey. Brian breaks down the entire process chronologically, from the initial consultation to determine if a business qualifies, through the critical formation steps that can make or break your IC-DISC. We cover proper capitalization requirements, the infamous 90-day election window, why non-interest bearing bank accounts matter, and the draconian 60-day payment rule that catches many businesses off guard. He explains the difference between simple and transaction-by-transaction calculations, sharing an example where detailed analysis increased a client's commission from $4 million to $17 million on $100 million in export sales. Whether you're a CPA learning about IC-DISC for the first time or a business owner considering this strategy, Brian's systematic approach demonstrates why working with a true specialist matters when navigating these complex regulations. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS A detailed transaction-by-transaction calculation increased one client's IC-DISC commission from $4 million to $17 million on the same $100 million in export sales. Missing the 90-day election filing window requires a private letter ruling costing $35,000-$40,000 to fix, making it cheaper to just set up a new IC-DISC. The 60-day payment rule requires paying at least 50% of your estimated commission in cash or promissory note within 60 days of year-end to avoid disqualification. Setting up an IC-DISC with no par value stock is a fatal error that will cause the IRS to reject your election, regardless of everything else done correctly. A non-interest bearing bank account is essential because even $1.50 of interest income can disqualify your IC-DISC if no commission is paid that year. Export sales typically need to reach $3-5 million before an IC-DISC makes economic sense, though exceptions exist for businesses with exceptionally high profit margins. Contact Details LinkedIn - Brian Schwam LINKSShow Notes Be a Guest About IC-DISC Alliance Brian SchwamAbout Brian TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Good morning, Brian. Welcome to the podcast. Brian Hey, good morning David. Good to be here. Dave: So I, I now refer to you as the Bob Hope of the podcast because I believe that Bob Hope holds the record for the most appearances on the Johnny Carson Show. So that's why you're like the Bob Hope of the podcast. You have more appearances than anyone else with today's appearance. Brian That's good company to be in if you're of a certain, if you're of a certain age. Dave: Yeah. And I'm not even sure you and I are quite old enough to even be of that certain age. Brian I probably never saw him on Johnny Carson. Dave: Yeah, me too. So this is an episode that was requested by a CPA of one of our clients who was retiring and he had a new. Partner taken over and he said, Hey Dave, can you send over a link to the episode that just goes through all the details of the IC disc from start to finish? And I'm like, well, we don't have that episode, but it's a great idea. So that's what's behind this. So let's start at the very beginning. Somebody calls you up and says, Hey Brian, I need an IC disc, or I want an IC disc. What's the very first step? Brian Very first step for me is to say why. Dave: Okay, Brian tell me about your business. Dave: Okay. Brian You know, do you have qualified export receipts? Do you have qualified export property? That those are very complex areas. And some people might think they do when they don't, and others might think they don't when they do. Dave: Okay. Brian And more likely than not, they heard about IC disc from. Somebody they met at a, you know, business leader meeting or something and somebody said, oh, hey, I have an IC disc. You should have one. Dave: Okay. Brian And not everybody can utilize one, but there's many out there that can utilize 'em that do not. Dave: Okay. And do you charge anything for that consultation? Brian No, because to me it's just a fact finding. Dave: Okay. So step one, figure out if their fact pattern warrants having an IC disc. Brian Right? Right. Well, it's, it's actually, that's one step. If you deter, if we determine that yes, an IC disc makes sense because they do have qualified export property, they do have qualified export receipts, then we have to talk about volumes. Because, you know, if you have 500,000 of export sales, most like more likely than not. Disc isn't gonna make sense. Dave: Economic sense when Brian you factor Right. Economic, the Dave: costs Brian not right. There's not enough benefit to offset the cost at that, at that level, most likely. Of course. It [depends on what, what it is they're selling. Dave: Sure. Do you have a rule of thumb you typically use? Is it like three or 5 million where it typically makes sense or every case Brian For most, for most businesses, that's sort of the range that where it starts to make sense, but there are always exceptions to that. Dave: Sure. Brian So like I had a client that had, you know, 600,000 of export sales, but their bottom line profit was 80%. Dave: Okay. Brian So in that instance, hey, it made sense, but for most companies that have 600,000 of export sales, it, it probably doesn't make sense. Dave: Okay. So let's say they have 5 million of exports, good margins, looks like it makes economic sense. What's the next step then? Brian Well then we talk about what is the tax structure of that exporting company? Is it a flow through entity? Is it a C Corp? And how is it owned? Sometimes [00:04:00] it's owned by a foreign company that makes things way more complicated. Okay. It's owned by a combination of different shareholders, some of which are individuals, some of which are corporations. So that can be complicated. And sometimes it's just a, it's just a pass through entity that's owned by, you know, let's say it's an S corporation that's owned by a family owned. Dave: Sure. Brian You know, so you, you can have a lot of different fact patterns and that will dictate a lot of things with, with respect. Dave: Okay. Brian To how the disc is organized. Dave: Might that also be the time? You inquire as to whether multiple discs might make sense for their structure, or do you typically just focus on kind of getting the initial disc in place and then exploring that over time? Brian Probably the latter. Dave: Yeah. Brian Initially I, you know, the goal is, you know, do you have enough activity? Do you have the right kind of activity? What kind of benefit is it that you think you can, we can get for you? And then, okay, if the answer to all those are in the positive, then it's like, okay, how should this disc be owned based on what we're trying to achieve and where should it be set up? Because that also can have a lot of negative surprises if you set it up in the wrong place. Dave: Yeah. So let's say and I think there's some rules of thumb like if if the. Exporting company is a C corp, you typically don't want the C Corp to own the disc, is that correct? Brian That is, that is correct. And that's because a C corporation pays tax on a dividend. It receives from the IC dis, so effectively there's no benefit. Dave: Okay. So with a C corp, typically it would be the individuals, individual or [individuals that Brian are Oh, the, the shareholders typically, Dave: yeah. Brian You know, possibly a management group could be involved as well, but typically we're talking about the shareholders of the C corporation. Dave: Yeah. And the shareholders of the disc do not necessarily have to mirror the shareholders of the C corp. Right. Brian That is sort of up in the air. I, I prefer that to be the case, but it doesn't have to be the case. Dave: Yeah, like in a simple example, census C Corp owned by one person and when they set it up, they wanna add a couple key employees to it. Brian Yeah. That, that, that's probably fine. You know, there's some old revenue rulings out there from the early 1980s that have a bad fact pattern, which the IRS held that the structure created gift tax issues, but that was like a mom and a dad and a son and a daughter, and mom and dad set up a disc and then gave the stock to the son and the daughter. And, and so that, that's, I see that's a bad fact pattern. What you described is a completely different fact pattern. There's no donative intent in that fact Dave: pattern. Yeah. Okay. In Brian fact, that I have a client that started out where the disc and the C Corp was. It did have mirror ownership, but over time, that has changed dramatically. But still, there's no donor of intent because we have all these unrelated families that own shares in the company in this quote company. And when there have been redemption opportunities over the years, they have the choice redeemed, the disc shares redeemed. The, the C corp shares redeemed them both. So some of like kept their dis shares, but gotten rid of the C Corp shares and vice versa. But really without the donative intent, plus some court case you know, precedent, I, I'm not [00:08:00] so concerned about that issue. Dave: Okay. Now let's switch gears and let's say it's a flow through an S-Corp partnership et cetera. Do you typically want the individuals to own it in that situation? Say that the company has three shareholders, would you just make them the three owners of the disc? More often than not, no. Okay. And why is that? Brian Because it, you get the same benefit by making the disc a subsidiary of the S corporation without some of the extra complexity associated with having the disc be owned by the shareholders. Now that, that's, that's preferred, but there are also situations where that doesn't make sense. Dave: Okay. Brian So let's say the, the S corporation is in California and the shareholder lives in Texas, or Florida. Or Nevada. Dave: Okay. Brian So they might want that dividend income flowing directly to them so that there's [00:09:00] no state Oh. So that there's no state income tax on the dividend. Dave: Sure, sure. Brian Okay. Okay. Yeah. So again, it's just another fact you need to uncover in the process of trying to figure all this out. Dave: Okay, so you've met with the client, you've figured out a disc makes sense, you've dug further you figured out the ownership structure of the disc. That makes sense. So then I guess you have to figure out where to incorporate, huh? Brian Yeah. And that again, there are good states and bad states. Dave: Okay. Brian Some states will tax an IC dis as a regular C corporation, you wanna avoid those states. Some states don't have an income tax at all, and those are good states to deal with. Dave: Okay. Brian And the three, you know, I'd say there's three states that are predominantly viewed as positive, and that would be Delaware, Texas, and Nevada. Okay. They're all fairly similar. For filing. And, and none of them have a corporate income tax on the dis so that's, that's all good in terms of not adding additional costs to the, the structure. Dave: Okay. So I'm in Texas and thus you, it seems like most of my clients end up incorporating in Texas. Do you just so here we are January 8th. We're recording this of 2026. So do you just do you just get around to doing it anytime before the end of the year and then you could use the disc the whole year? Is that how it works? Brian It's not how it works. It's generally a prospective opportunity. So you wanna get that entity formed as quickly as possible. Dave: Okay. Yeah. I've had people, I've heard [00:11:00] people say that if you don't do it on January 1st, you just have to wait till the next year. Brian No. That, well, that's certainly not true. And from any date forward that you set it up, you can certainly get benefits or shipments. Okay. That they, but one other item that I forgot to mention earlier, they also like to ask if the, if the related supplier entity, which is the exporter, if they're an accrual based company or a cash basis, Dave: ah, Brian that's an, that's an incredibly important issue Dave: Sure. Brian Dealt with. That's why. Dave: Okay. Brian Because the disc is an accrual base taxpayer by default. Dave: Yeah. Okay, we'll get into that when we get further around the, Brian okay. Dave: I think about when I was a kid, there was a, there was a Saturday morning TV series I think called schoolhouse Rock. And one of the episodes was how, how a bill becomes a Law [00:12:00] And there's the whole steps, the Brian episode, everybody remembers. Dave: Yep. Yep. So everybody our age at least. Okay, so you've got the disc set up and say you do it in Texas and let's say they make the decision January 8th, takes a few days to, you know, just kind of get stuff, you know, information from the client set up. And let's say you get it set up January 15th, so then they're good to go, huh? They can just start using that disc and away we go. Anything else? Ha. That has to be done Or is it, is it that some Brian on the, on the surface, yes, that's true. Dave: Okay. Brian But beneath the surface, there's other things that have to take place. Dave: Okay. What's the next thing that has to happen after you've formed the disc? Brian Well, you have a, there's a 90 day window to file a disc collection with the IRS. That's probably the most critical thing that has to happen. You have to file an actual paper form with the IRS to elect disc status for the company, because the company, when you set it up, it's just a corporation. Without that election, it's not a disc. Dave: And that election, is this the famous form 48, 76 dash a, is that said election, Brian famous or infamous in some cases, Dave: yes. Yeah. Okay. So you have to, so you just well, you just go to the IRS website. Download the form, send it in, bing, bam. Boom. You're done. You're good to go. Brian Not exactly. Dave: Okay. That's the Brian first Dave: step. Brian Skip. That's the first step. But the I mean, first of all, when you're setting up the disc, you have to make sure you incorporate it properly. Dave: Okay. Brian I kind of glossed over that. Dave: And what are some of the elements of proper incorporation? Brian Well, for example, when you go to a, the Texas website or any other secretary of State website to organize the company, because it can be done all online, [00:14:00] like the default is always, you know, no par value stock, right. Brian If you just select the default, you are going to have a problem because Okay. Dis rules require, you know, par or stated value of $2,500 on the, issued an issued an outstanding stock of, of the disk. So I had a client that came to me years ago. They had set up a company in, well, they used Wyoming, which is also possible to use, and it's not a bad jurisdiction. And they had, he had his quote unquote friend that who was an attorney, set it up for him. And there were some issues with the DISC collection and it went back and forth and then ultimately took a look at the articles of incorporation and it had, you know, $1 power stock, 1000 shares. Dave: Ah, that's a problem. Brian That's, [00:15:00] yeah. So no matter what happened with the disc election and the back and forth with the IRS, the disc election was ultimately never approved because the entity didn't meet the requirement. Having enough outstanding capital stock. So you have to have one and it can only have one class of shares. So there are, you know, there are some hoops you have to jump through in terms of not doing things incorrectly or doing things correctly. So you have to make sure there's one class of stock, $2,500 par value. There can't be foreign sales corporation in the same patrol group, which years ago was a big deal, but now it's not really a big deal because those have been gone for many years and almost nobody has one left. Not, not really an issue there. And what, you know, those are the formation matters that, that mattered, that are important to make sure you, you meet when you form the entity. Okay? If it's formed wrong, right from the get go, you have a problem. If [00:16:00] it's formed correctly, then the next step is yes, file a disc election. Dave: And, but before you file the disc election, there's a step we're missing, right? Doesn't the DISC election require. To put the corresponding EIN for the distance. Oh yes. I mean, I just assumed we, yeah, you obviously you have to apply for an ID number for the new entity that does not come automatically with the incorporation. Brian 'cause that's done with the state as opposed with the IRS yes. Dave: Yeah. And that's become more challenging. It used to be pretty easy to get an EIN you could apply under a corporate name or Brian yeah. But there, there's a, you know, there is an online portal with the IRS to get an EIN for a domestic company. So it's not, it's not Dave: terrible. Yeah. Brian It's not terrible. Dave: Yeah. So you have the EIN that you need for the 48 76 ae. Brian Right. Dave: You have you have 90 days, Brian you have the proper capitalization. Dave: Yeah. Brian You figured out who's gonna own the disc because the, the disc collection is. Signed, you know, it's not just made by the disc entity. It's made by the disc entity, then consented to by the shareholder. So you have to make sure that all that takes place. I can't tell you the number of times where somebody filled out part one, the disc signed it, and then the shareholder forgot the consent to it. And if you don't do the 48 76 dash eight correctly, you get it filed timely. It's an extremely expensive fix to try and get that Dave: rectified. Brian Generally, you have to try to get a private letter ruling, which will grant an extension of time to file the late disc collection. Dave: Okay. Brian And that's that's an expensive process. It's a 25 to $30,000 exercise to [00:18:00] file the private letter, really. Plus you have to pay a user fee to the IRS of 10,000, 11,000. Dave: Wow. Yeah. It seems that seems inconvenient at, at best. Brian And for most companies, they're better off just setting up a second dose Dave: Sure. Brian As opposed Dave: to process, Brian because how much volume there is. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. And I understand the IRS itself refers to these as a, a paper entity. So I guess since it's a paper entity, that's it. No need to fuss around with a bank account or actually have to capitalize it with actual money is there. Brian It's, it's recommended, but you're right, it's not required. There's no requirement in the disk rules to set up a bank account. Dave: Okay. Brian So there it could simply have. A receivable receiv for the capital stock. And that can be, its working capital doesn't have to have a bank account, but that's sort of a misnomer that people think it must have a bank account. Okay. In the original regulations, that was a requirement, but when the regulations are finalized, the requirement was removed. Dave: Okay. But practically speaking, it you probably wanna have a bank account. Brian Yes. Practically speaking, it makes all the sense in the world to have a bank account, a non-interest bearing bank account. Dave: And why is the non-interest bearing important? Brian Well, it, it has to do with one of the annual requirements of a disc. That 95% of its receipts have to be qualified export assets. I'm sorry, receipts. And so let's say in a year the company decides. You can't always decide not to use the DIS even though you've got it in place. So let's say the company says, well we're not gonna use the, this year we had a loss. In our business there's no using. Dave: Okay. Brian We say, okay, and then the DIS bank account earned a dollar 50 of interest income. Dave: Okay, Brian well 100% of the receipts are now not qualified receipts. Okay. Income and no other revenue. If there was a non-interest bearing bank account, it would just have no receipts and then it would be fine. But the earning, the dollar 50 of interest would disqualify that. Dave: Okay. So non-interest bearing account and then I guess the dollar amount in the bank account, what you start with, $2,500 initially. Brian Yeah, pretty much keep it there forever. Dave: But, but it doesn't matter if you end up, oh, if you're a little lazy and you forget to distribute all the money and you end up with 50 grand at the end of the year, that, that's not a problem, is it? Brian It is. Dave: It is. Everything's a problem Brian with you, Brian, because everything, 'cause the, these rules are draconian and everything can become a problem. So a commission dis anyway, a comm, [00:21:00] you know, a paper entity commission dis doesn't need $50,000 of working capital. And the IRS would hold that, that that's not a qualified export out. Like having too much working capital in DIS will cause it to fail. The other test, which is the 95 qualified export asset test 2,500, you know, an amount of cash equal to the capital stock is fine. Dave: Sure. Brian Amounts above that start to, you know, raise questions as to whether. That's reasonable working capital or not? Given that the entity's a paper entity, it doesn't really have any expenses. Maybe some bank fees. That would be about it. In most cases, it really doesn't need cash sitting. Dave: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe 3000, 3,500 to account for some bank fees or, Brian yeah, at most, yeah, we start getting about 5,000. It really starts to [00:22:00] look questionable. Dave: Okay. Oh, I just realized, I think in the initial assessment there was a step we forgot and that's, do they want to make it a buy sell disc or a commission disc? What percentage of your clients are commission discs? Mine a hundred percent. That's Brian 99%. Dave: Yeah. So we're just stepping ahead assuming that it would be a commission disc, Brian right. I mean, the only time you would really have a buy sell disc. 'cause if you have a business where. They're buying inventory from unrelated parties. And all the inventory is manufactured in the US and all of it is export. Dave: Yeah. Brian Okay. That, that, that I do have, like I said, two clients that have adopted that structure. One was commissioned disc with an S-corp and they converted, they merged the S-corp into the disc and just became an operating disc. You know, and that's a little different than a buy sell disc. I mean, an operating disc. People think of buy, sell dis an operating disc for the same thing. They're really not. I mean, 'cause you could have a, the equivalent of a commission disc, but have it be by sell where it could buy product from its related exporter and then export it. Dave: Okay. Brian It's possible that, that, that tho that fact pattern, I don't have any clients in. Dave: Okay. Brian It's possible. Dave: Okay. So we've got the election filed and then at some point the IRS will send the taxpayer letter approving the election, right? Brian Correct. That is, that was true. Dave: And then so we've got the, the B and usually it makes more sense to have the disc bank account at the same bank as the operating company, right? Brian It typically does, Dave: yes. Yeah. And we'll get into that when we get further into the operation of the disc. Okay. So it's all set up. And elections filed, election approved. So now certainly we're done with incorporation and government governance matters, right? Brian No. No, Dave: not yet. Brian Not yet. Not yet. Okay. We still have to make sure there's a a call, a related supplier agreement or disc commission supplier agreement in place between the, the exporting entity or entities and the disc itself. This document is, it's not, again, it's not required in the regulations, but it is recommended. It gives the related supplier a lot of flexibility in how it uses the disc and if it uses the disc and it gives it unilateral powers to decide not to use the disc. It also lays out the, you know, sort of boil legal boilerplate language about an inter intercompany agreement between the two business. Dave: So you could just go to chat GPT and have them spool up a one page sales agent agreement. Is that right? Brian Maybe. I don't know. I haven't tried that 'cause I don't wanna teach chat GPT how to, how to do that, but because every time you ask it a question, you teach it, right? Dave: Sure. Brian General, no, it's a pretty specific agreement and it has very specific provisions in it. Provisions and so somebody that knows what they're doing really needs to draft them. Dave: Okay. Okay. So this is kind of pointing away from just having your general corporate attorney who's never heard of a disc, do all that quote paperwork. Brian Yeah. I never recommend. I always recommend that a specialist do it, namely myself take care of it. Dave: Okay. Yeah. 'cause you are, in addition to having an accounting background, you're also a tax attorney, correct? Brian Correct. Dave: Correct. Okay. Brian Yeah. And you know, some of the documents that need to be created, yeah. That can be done by a general corporate attorney like bylaws and those as well and or other organizational documents that aren't disc specific can only be done by any attorney. But but if, but really it doesn't make sense to split that work up amongst different attorneys. Dave: Okay. Sure. Brian It all sort of be done by the same party to make sure that it's, that everything gets taken here. Dave: Okay. Brian And timely because there's a 90 day window to get this, in my opinion, to get this all done. Dave: Yeah, to co to coincide with the election filing. Brian Right. Because typically I don't provide any of the documents, including the election, to the, to the client until all these things are done. Dave: Yeah. Oh, I see. Sure, sure. Because then there's, Brian you know, they have to sign the disc election and there's all these other documents they need to sign and put in a minute book. And so rather than piecemeal it, we just give it to them all at once. Dave: Okay. So they've got their binder with all their signed documents or a signed copy of the 48 76 A that was filed a copy of the approval from the IRS. So now finally, are we ready to get started using our disc? Is there. Brian Collection the I. Yeah. As you've probably seen in the news, things are changing at the postal service as far as postmarks and what they can be relied on as when something was considered filed. So they're not promising the postmark things that they, you drop them in the mail anymore. Dave: Oh, really? Okay. I hadn't heard that. Brian Yeah. So it's recommended to go, like, walk it to a counter and have it hands stamped with [00:28:00] a postmark. Yeah. But more importantly, and unfortunately not everybody listens to this, send the form certified mail return receipt requested. 'cause many times document is sent to Kansas City and they lose track. Oh, we never got your dis election. We can't process your dis return, whatever. And then there's proof that it was sent and then they have to, you know, find it basically. Dave: Okay. Or Brian at least accept it, maybe even if they never find. Dave: Yeah. Brian But there's one other thing about the disc and that we didn't talk about and, and I'm reminded of it because something you asked me in passing last week, which is something about the year end of the disc, the year end of the disc must coincide with its principal shareholder. So if I have a C corp that's a fiscal year, but the owners of the disc aren't gonna be [00:29:00] individuals, that disc will be a calendar year disc. Dave: Sure. Brian Not be a fiscal year company. And you know, if. It's owned by, let's say an S corp that has a fiscal year, then the disc will have a fiscal year. It, it must have the same year as its principalship. Dave: Okay. Yeah. Good. Thanks for the reminder of that. Brian And sometimes the disc collection gets filled out incorrectly. Somebody assumes one thing and, and then when a return is filed, the IRS, they're like, they, they dunno what to do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Now finally, do we have a little bouncing baby disc to be delivered to its proud parents? I think so. Dave: Okay. Okay. Okay. Brian And that's usually, it's usually about three to five months after it was formed. Dave: Okay. Brian Is when it started eating solids. Dave: Okay. Alright, so now we've got the disc set up and 9:45 AM I'm, I'm sorry, I keep touching my watch and it says the time, apparently it's time to just take off my watch. Okay. So now, so let's just say that they have not yet set up the bank account. They've done everything else, and now it's time to set up the bank account so they, you know, call their local banker. They get it set up at the same bank, so it can be on the same online banking platform. And then they fund it. And does it matter where the funding comes, comes from for that bank account? Can they just like say the company. I mean, can just anybody fund it? Say there's three shareholders, can just one shareholder write a check for $2,500 to fund it? Or how does that all look? Brian Well, I mean, there, there will be a subscription agreement that shows how much each shareholder owes for their shares, and each shareholder should pay for them. Okay. Can't just be one. Dave: Okay. So we have the bank account set up, we're ready to go. And so now we're at the end of the year, or approaching the end of the year. Let's say we're in November of 2026. Anything we need to do before the end of the year Brian for an accrual based taxpayer? No. Okay. There's nothing paid to do, but before the end of the year. Dave: And what about for a cash basis? Brian For a cash basis, taxpayer, if we want a deduction in 2026. We need to pay the DIS in 2026, so Dave: we Brian would need to gather information in order to estimate a DIS commission for 2026 before the end of the year. Dave: Okay. So cash basis, that's what we need to do by the end of the year. Accrual basis. Basis, no. Do I need to do [00:32:00] anything by the end of the year? Brian You don't need to. You have an option to, if you'd like to, if you wanna have an idea of what the disc commission might be, or you actually wanna pay it before the end of the year, but there's no requirement. Dave: Yeah. And if you don't, and if you don't pay it by the end of the year, you get a deferral benefit Brian possibly. Dave: Yeah so say, say you did a hundred million of exports and your commission was $20 million. You just get to defer that whole thing till the next year, right? Brian No, Dave: no. Brian, all you say is No. Every good idea have you just say No. Brian It could defer 10% of it to the next year because only the income related to 10 million of export sales can be deferred, and it'd be a little less than 10% because the disc wasn't there the whole year. So we'd have to prorate that 10 million for the number of days the disc existed. And then some sliver can be deferred, but the rest of it is gonna be taxed to the shareholders as a deemed dividend Dave: in the current year. In the Brian current. Dave: Okay. Brian Then not taxed when physically distributed in the following. Dave: Okay, so we have an accrual tax payer. We get into the to 2027, and let's say they're extending their corporate return and they're planning to file that in August of 27. So we're done. We don't have anything else to do before August. Right? Brian That's not true either. Dave: Brian, Brian you're Dave: killing me. Brian Yeah, well, it, I mean, it depends. If nothing was done before the end of the year, then something needs to be done within the first 60 days after the accrual base taxpayer. Or, you know, let's say the cash base taxpayer says, I don't [00:34:00] care if I get my deduction next year, so I'm not gonna pay anything this year. Something needs to be paid at this within 60 days of the end of the year. Dave: So is this one of those things like the sales agent agreement, that that's just recommended? Brian No, this is required. Dave: Required. Okay. Brian Yeah. This is required. This is, this is one of the hot buttons the IRS will try to use to disqualify your disc. Dave: Okay. Brian So the disc accrues a receivable at the end of the year, even though it doesn't know the amount at the end of the year for all, for, for disc purposes and books an an accrual for the income at the end of the year. That accrual or the receivable is only a qualified export asset if, if the payment rules around that receivable or satisfy. Dave: Okay. Okay. Brian One Dave: rule Rules. Rules. There's always rules. Brian Yeah. It's very draconian. You have a 60 day rule and a 90 day rule. 60 day rule says you must pay a reasonable estimate of the disc commission to the disc within 60 days of the end of the year in cash or. It could be cash, it could be a note. Dave: And reasonable is just any old amount. You just put your finger in the air and ah, I think a hundred dollars is reasonable. Brian Again, that's not the case. There is a safe harbor for what is reasonable, and that safe harbor is f at least 50% of the final commission amount that you Dave: determine. But how do you know that in February Brian you have, Dave: if you're not preparing the corporate, Brian you have to try to compute an estimate before the end of FE Dave: and you have to nail it exactly at 50%. So if you think the commission's gonna be $1,217,412, you need to pay exactly 50% of that, Brian at least. [00:36:00] Dave: Oh, at least. So you could pay more. At Brian least you could pay more. And we always recommend maybe paying 75 to 80%. Dave: Okay. Brian Because if you pay whatever you pay. That amount is gonna be your limit. So if you thought it was gonna be a million and you paid 500,000 and it turns out to be 1,000,500, too bad. So sad, you only paid 500,000, you're capped at a million. Dave: Okay? I mean, that's the safe harbor. I suppose there might be circumstances where, where one could argue that they maybe the first year of the disc, and you know, they, they, Brian you can argue it, you can try to argue it, but there's no guarantee that the IS will accept any of the arguments. And the private letter rulings that exist from the 1970s would imply that they, they're really not going to accept just about any rationale for being reasonable other than that 50% bright [00:37:00] line safe harbor. Dave: Okay so you make the payment, Brian make that payment, and. Dave: Can you just book a journal entry? Do you, do you actually have to really move the money? It sounds like a hassle. Brian I mean, in, in general you have to, you have to either create a note or move cash. Dave: Okay. Brian Okay. Dave: But that might be a lot of money though. Like what if, what if it's like $2 million and million? The company only has a million dollars in the bank. Brian They could use the same capital multiple times. Dave: Oh, okay. Brian And roundtrip the money as many times as they need to, or like I said, use the, use the promissory note. Dave: Okay. Brian Short term promissory note to satisfy that requirement because it does say cash or property. Dave: Okay. So we get through February, we've made our, our 60 day payment. We've, we've, you know, sh sh we've, we, instead of doing 50%, we did about 80% of what we thought it was gonna be to give us some cushion, and now we can go take a vacation till the till the corporate returns ready. Brian Yeah. I, I, I think so. Dave: Okay. Brian I think so. Dave: Okay. So it's time to now. So it's time. Now, if they extend that corporate return, I guess they're gonna have to extend the disc return as well. Brian Well, the disc return is due September 15th as a matter of course. Dave: Oh, Brian are handy. There are no extensions. So really as far as the disc and its compliance goes, once you make that 60 day payment, there's really not much you can or should do or are able to do until the related entities tax return. Prepared. [00:39:00] So a lot of times they'll say, well, that's not gonna be done till September 15th, and we have to have a discussion about how that doesn't work because the disc return has to be done by September 15th, but in order to do the disc return, you need to basically a completed within it supplier returns. So then we have to work backwards from September 15th to figure out like when's the latest they can have that, that other return done in order Dave: to Brian get the disc return done. Now that's relatively easy in the past through context because all those pass through returns are also due September 15th on extension. Dave: Sure. Brian Whereas a C corporation, it's not so easy because the extended due date for a C corporation, if it's a calendar year is October 15th. So it may be that you have to file a disc return with a made up number on time and then amend it after. Okay. After September 15th. I've done that a number of times. Dave: Okay. So that makes sense. Brian Because as is good as CPAs are, they're deadline driven. So if a return is due October 15th, they're unlikely to have it done by the end of August. Dave: Yeah. Okay. So it's time to file the disc return. I assume the CPA firm probably has that disc return and their standard tax software with all the other forms. So you just have the CPA go ahead and prepare the disc return. I've looked at it, it's a short return. It's like 10 pages long. So you just go ahead and have the CPA prepare the disc return, then bing, bam, boom, you're done. Brian Could do that. Dave: Okay. Is there a drawback to doing that? Brian Yeah, it would probably be wrong. Dave: Okay. Why do you say that? Now, remember [Brian, we have a lot of CPAs who we have very good relationships with that we share clients, you know, saying that they're probably gonna do it wrong. I mean, heck, I don't really wanna annoy all my great CPAs we work with Brian Well, okay, but it, well, it's just a fact. It'll probably okay Dave: be Brian wrong because they might see one or two or three a year. They, they think they know what all the different terms on the district return mean, but they're not as familiar with that as they are with a S Corp return or a partnership return, or 1120. So they do what they think is right, and it may be right, it may not be right. So again, I, in my opinion, you want a specialist preparing the district return. Dave: Okay. Brian Okay. Because we know exactly how it's supposed to be filled out. And then if, if the calculation is done on a transaction by transaction [00:42:00] basis, there's this schedule P that gets attached to the return. Well, if you don't do a T by T, there's one Schedule P. If you do a T by T, there could be thousands of them. So I don't think CPAs and their software are equipped to complete thousands of schedule Ps and attach Dave: Yeah. Brian To the district. Dave: No, good point. And you're, you're getting your your enthusiasm to get to T by t had me, you got a little ahead of me. 'cause I was gonna ask, so client says, Hey, we have a desk. Our accounting department's busy. What's just the bare minimum of information we need to send you? What's the bare minimum? Brian Bare minimum would be qualified export sales. Dave: They just need to send you a number. Brian Yes. Dave: Then you take that number and how hard can it be? Right. Just take the, Brian it's not, it's not necessarily that hard at that point. Dave: Yeah. But say the profit on those sales [00:43:00] is the average profit of the company and taxable profit. And you compute the disc commission, you go through the Schedule P and compute the disc commission and pick the higher of the two numbers that you, that you compute. So you would just be like the final draft, corporate return and that total export number, you know, dollar amount for the year. And, and that's really all you need to, to do. That's Brian the bare bone. That's the bare bones, yeah. Dave: Okay. And that's what some people would call the standard calculation or a simple calculation, Brian I'd call it simple. Yeah. Dave: Okay. And that's also known as the 4% 50% calculation in some circles. Right. How does that work? Brian Well, it's also known as the safe harbor calculation in certain circles as well. Back to that, Dave: back to that safe harbor again. Brian Yeah. But that's actually not a safe harbor, so that's why I bring that up. Dave: Okay, well Brian that's the safe harbor calculation. I'm like, no, it's not. It's just the [00:44:00] calculation. There's nothing safe harbor about Dave: it. Okay. Brian Okay. It's just the rules that are found in the code and regs for computing and disc commission, and they're the two predominant methods. 4% of sales and the 50% of net profit, Dave: you just cherry pick whichever one works better. Brian Yeah, but the 4% method has limitations. So Dave: more limitations probably. Why? Why can't this just be simple? You said it was the simple calculation and now you're already telling me there's inherent complexity. Brian Even if it's simple, it's not totally simple. Dave: Okay. Okay, Brian so the, and I've seen this done wrong. Millions, well, not millions, hundreds of times, and I can say it is hundreds of times. Client computes the 4% method just by choosing 4% of sales. They don't look at what their net income is on the, on the [00:45:00] activity. They just say, oh, I'm allowed to use 4% of sales. The limit there is you cannot create a loss. There's something called the no loss rules. You can't create a loss with a disc commission if one doesn't already exist. So if the profit on, say, on the sales are 2% of sales, you can't take 4% of sales. You're limited to 2% of sales. And if, for example, you have a loss of the company, you're limited to zero. But I've seen situations where that's completely ignored. Dave: Okay? Brian Properly computed this commission of 4% of sales, but it should have been something less or possibly zero. Dave: Okay? So more complexity, but the good news, that's the extent of the complexity. One, schedule P, 4%, 50%, you know, make sure you, you don't create a loss. Now we're, we're all done. Pop. You [00:46:00] know what, what? Dusted and dusted and delivered we're, we're good to go. They've maximized their dis commission, right? And we're all done. They have a nice 10 page return to send to the IRS. Which by the way, can they file that electronically, that return? Brian Fortunately, there are no provisions for electronic filing of the disc return. It must be, Dave: what is this, the 1970s or something? Brian Pretty much Dave: Okay Brian with, with regard to the disc? Yeah. And, and some other forms. Yeah. But the, the, the benefit of that, here, I'll give you a benefit. The benefit of the fact that you must file a paper return is they can have an electronic signature on it. Okay. It doesn't have to have a wet signature. Dave: Okay? Okay. Brian So you could theoretically, for example, send your client the return using DocuSign, have them sign it. You print it, you file it for, Dave: okay. Okay. But, but now we're finally done. It's signed, it's done. And they say, boy, thank you very much, Brian. You've done, your team did a great job, and boy, I really appreciate, you know, we had 10 million of exports. We have all kinds of variability in our profit margins. And, but thank you very much. You, you created the amazing $400,000 or you calculated the 400,000 disc commission. Thank you very much. I couldn't imagine you went above and beyond. I couldn't imagine you could have done anything more. And then what do you say? Do you graciously say, oh, you're welcome. It was our pleasure. Brian I would graciously say, you know, we, we've just computed your minimum disc commission. Dave: Okay, Brian not your maximum. Because you have Dave: vast, lemme guess. Lemme guess. There's more complexity coming. Brian More complexity, which relies on more data being. Pulled from the client's [00:48:00] records to, to allow for a calculation of the DISC commission at a more detailed level, ideally at a line item by invoice level, Dave: line item. That sounds like a lot of work. Brian It can be. Can be a Dave: lot. What if the client says, our accounting department's busy? Sounds like we're gonna have to spend weeks gathering all this data for you. Eh, it's just, we're too busy, it's not worth it. What do you say then? Brian I gu I almost can guarantee you it will be worth it. Okay. Because looking at the detail is likely to cause at Disconnect commission to be anywhere from 50 to three, 400% higher than what it otherwise would've been. Now, unfortunately, in that first year, since you've already filed with a certain number, you're limited to two times what you paid in that 60 day window. But going forward. You know, there's no limit. Dave: Okay. Brian Whatever we compute can be your disc commission. So different industries have different amount of variability and t and transaction by transaction calculations have different impacts depending upon the industry, the profitability of the business, how many products they have, who they sell to. But it can vary. But I'll give you an example of one that we worked on recently where company had a hundred million of export sales. They took 4% of sales, and they've been taking 4% of sales year after year, after year, after year, after year, Dave: okay. Brian They brought us in like three weeks before the district return. Dave: Okay. Brian And we went through the calculations and we actually calculated 17 million Dave: as opposed to 4 million. Brian As opposed to four. Dave: [00:50:00] Yikes. That's a big difference. Brian It's a huge difference. And fortunately they were, you know, well, I mean they were very pleased with the result. And so now on a going forward basis, we're not doing 4% of sales. Dave: Okay? But you still have this. But if they were able to get a $17 million commission, then that means their corporate taxable income must have been at least 17 million. 'cause didn't I hear you say the disc commission cannot cause a loss. Brian It cannot cause a loss at the level at which you're computing the commission. So there's no, you're killing me, Brian. Just more complexity. Yeah. Well, it's very complex area. There's, there's no overall no loss rule. Like if you, you can, as long as you're meeting the rules as they're written, you can cause your entity to go into a loss position. Now, this particular instance, it did not do that, but [00:51:00] you could do that. Dave: Okay. And then if you get into a loss position, there are other non disc complexities that come into play that impact whether you want to maximize the loss in that entity or you want to target a particular loss in that entity. And that's not something that we get involved with, but we're certainly sensitive to it. Sure. Sure. And so you're saying for this client, even though I've heard some people say you've got the simple calc and then the hard calc. And so you'd wonder why would anyone do the hard calc? Well, it's because their commission went from 4 million to 17 million, which saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars. You created hundreds or millions of dollars with additional tax savings. Brian Right, right. Dave: Okay. Brian And by the way, after the first conversation we had with them, they said, oh [00:52:00] yeah, this is not something we can do. The accounting department said, this is not something we can do. Then the owner said, this is something you're gonna, Dave: it's funny how that, how that works. Okay. And then I'm guessing this extra work. You, you're probably gonna have to create another schedule P or two. So now the disc return, it's gonna be 10 pages. It's what? 20 pages? Is that kind of a typical page count? Brian No, it could be Dave: no. Brian Thousands of pages. Dave: Thousands. I mean, Brian, a ream of paper is 500. So thousands would be reams of paper. Brian Yes. I've had some returns that have like 15 binders of paper. Dave: Yikes. Brian Yeah. Just goes in a big box and I'm sure the IRS types, all those schedule Ps into their, Dave: I'm sure they do. Okay. So the return gets filed, so the return's ready. You take that box, you just slap a you print off a postal label online, drop it off at the post office. And you're done, right? You just give it to carrier, Brian understand, Dave: carrier, carrier your house or whatever. Brian Well, you can send it via FedEx. You can send it via UPS. And actually, in some ways, I think that might be better these days than the postal service. Dave: And why do you have to do that? Can you just slap, I mean, if you have your 15 binders, couldn't you just put a hundred stamps, you know, on the, the box and ship it in because they'll get it, right? I mean, it's not like they're gonna lose it or anything. Brian They might, they could very well lose it. And you definitely want proof of delivery and you want proof of mailing. So again, it's a certified mail if you're using the postal service or if you're using a private carrier like FedEx, you know, you get all that documentation about when it was shipped and when it was delivered.[00:54:00] Dave: Okay, well now at least we're finally done. Right? You ship it off. The CPA pulls the numbers from the disc return, puts it on the corporate and shareholder returns. Now we're done. It's gone to the IRS. We never have to think about it again. Right. Brian I'm not sure if that's a trick question or not, but in some ways that could be true, Dave: right? Yeah. But it, but I guess you could get audited, right? Brian Could get audited by an agent who has no idea what they're doing, which is typically the case. Dave: So that's why you want your CPA defending you in that case. 'cause then it's like the blind leading the blind. Brian No, I think it's better if someone with site is involved. So again, the specialist who did the disc work should represent the taxpayer or be involved with the representation of taxpayer in the case of the audit. Dave: Okay. Brian And the should be involved. Because really what's under, what's really in question is the [00:55:00] deduction on that entity's tax return. The dis itself doesn't pay tax. So they rarely audit a dis quote. Dave: Okay? So if I break it down, you to do it really right? You need a specialist to guide you on the initial structure of the disc. You need another specialist to set up the, the disc. You need another specialist to do all the paperwork, make sure the document's correct another specialist to prepare the return, and then another specialist to defend you. So is that about right? So do you need like five different people to make sure everything's done right? Brian? Isn't there some way that you could just have one person that could just do it all for you and be done with it? Brian Well, of course. Dave: Okay. Finally, finally, I get a simple answer, Brian right? So if you, if you engage a disc specialist, that [specialist should be able to do all that. Dave: Okay? Brian Okay. Now, not every disc specialist is created equally. Dave: Sure. Brian You know, I brought up during our conversation that there are some non disc things that can also add complexity to the situation. Not every disc specialist will be sensitive to those things. Not every disc specialist will understand those things. So the benefits that like our organization brings is that. Least myself in particular, I didn't always just do IC disc work. I, I, I have a well-rounded knowledge of all of the, of the tax world. And so I am sensitive to non disc things. You know, for example, you know, another example, oh, a company has a lot of export sales. You would think it's a no brainer. They should have a dis, they should use the dis. They should, they, they should want to convert that ordinary income to qualified dividend [00:57:00] income. Well, what if the S-corp is owned by an ebit? What if there are passive shareholders? All of those things impact whether the disc commission actually helps or hurts their tax situation. And I would get, I would venture a guess that, you know, if you went out and Googled, you know, I see this specialist, you would find a handful. At most that understand all that stuff and how all it all interplays together as opposed to the multitude of those that won't understand any of it. Dave: Okay. Brian So I think a, a disc specialist that is sensitive to all the other tax rules is, is definitely something that is valuable. Dave: And you probably want someone with some experience who's done maybe, you know, what a dozen disc returns in their career, maybe 50 if they're really good. Like how many, how many have we done organization wide? Probably Brian probably 10,000. Dave: 10,000? Well, that's a lot more than 50. Brian Yes. Over the years it's probably close to that number. And we've probably claimed billions of dollars of just deductions and saved clients, hundreds of millions of dollars of tax. And, and I'm proud to say that every dollar we've ever claimed we've. Okay. Dave: So Brian I've never had an adjustment from the IRS. Dave: Well, that sounds like a, a good a good record. So bottom line, Brian that's, that's the best you can come up with a good record. I'd say it's Dave: well, I didn't wanna say a perfect record. I didn't want to jinxy. Brian No, but it's, it's, it's, it's pretty outstanding record. Dave: Yeah. It's a, it's an impressive record Brian because there are also just providers out there that say, well, you know, Dave: it's the Wild West. Brian The wild west, the IRS doesn't really understand it, so let's be as aggressive as possible. And, and that's not the way we approach it. Dave: Yeah. Wow. Well, this has been this has been a lot. So really it's that simple. So the person who wants to just do all this themselves, we've laid out the whole playbook for them. Brian Yeah. The only simple thing they have to do is call us. Dave: There you go. That is it. Yeah. And, and oh, the other thing, not only are you the Bob, hope you now have moved from number two to number one for the most experienced icy disc guy. I know now that Neil Block is retired. Brian Well, that's, I don't know if that's a plus or not. Whether I'll take it just means I've been doing it a long time myself. So Dave: yeah, Neil was, I think my second, first or second guess. And and I was just happy. 'cause his billing rate back then was like $1,500 an hour. I was just glad I didn't get a bill a month later for him being on the podcast. But he, [01:00:00] he did it for exactly 50 years at one firm, baker and McKinsey in Chicago. He had one office, one phone number, like the whole 50 years. Brian Yeah. That's, Dave: that is something you don't see much anymore. Brian Definitely not, no. It's, but it's very, that's. That's very cool. And Neil is a very, you know, is a very intelligent savvy guy. Dave: Yeah, that is for sure. Well, Brian, anything else that we didn't cover that you can think of? Brian I can't think of anything. I think we covered a, a great deal here. Dave: Okay. Brian Can't think. Dave: Well, I, I'll let Brian we omitted. Dave: Well, great. Well, hey, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. And I'll let you get back to your, your exploration of your yard there. Brian Yeah. I feel like, it's funny I shrunk the kids. Dave: I know. Well, hey, well, well again, thanks again, Brian. We all appreciate your time. Brian You're welcome. Have a good day. Dave: You too.
In this episode, I speak with Jessica Souza, broker and co-owner of Paradise Exclusive Real Estate in Southwest Florida, about how brokerages can use AI to support agents, improve productivity, and create real competitive advantages. Jessica shares practical examples including custom GPT knowledge bases, community-specific AI tools, agent training, and how AI acts as a workflow multiplier rather than a shortcut. The conversation also covers leadership, delegation, and building systems that help agents focus on serving clients. Guest: Jessica Souza Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/movingwithjess LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/movingwithjess Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/movingwithjess The Agent Playbook written by Jessica - https://a.co/d/d5MJ5ng Host: Rajeev Sajja Website: http://www.realestateaiflash.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rsajja Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/rajeev_sajja LinkedIn: http://www.linkedIn.com/in/rsajja Resources: Join our Instagram Real Estate AI Insiders Channel - https://ig.me/j/AbZCJG37DqBPPtxi/ Subscribe to our weekly AI Newsletter: https://realestateai-flash.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Doctronic became the first AI in the world legally licensed to practice medicine through Utah's AI Learning Lab regulatory sandbox in December 2025. In this episode of BUILDERS, I sat down with Matt Pavelle, Co-founder and Co-CEO of Doctronic, to learn how he and his co-founder (a physician) launched an AI-powered primary care chatbot in September 2023, validated demand through Facebook chronic condition groups and minimal Google Ads spend, and navigated uncharted regulatory territory to offer $4 prescription renewals for chronic conditions—targeting the medication non-adherence problem that causes 125,000 preventable deaths and costs $100B annually. Topics Discussed: Why friends with excellent health insurance still couldn't get medical answers quickly Building clinical accuracy into GPT-3.5 when context windows were small and hallucinations were rampant The tactical launch: Google Ads plus Facebook chronic condition groups in September 2023 Architecting safety: RAG with tens of thousands of physician-written clinical guidelines The study: 99.2% agreement rate between AI treatment plans and human doctor reviews across 500 patients Navigating Utah's AI Learning Lab: the only regulatory sandbox that mitigated medical licensing laws Securing AI malpractice insurance through Lloyd's Market—a first in the industry The three-phase oversight model: 100% human review, then 10%, then spot checks Expansion strategy: targeting other state regulatory sandboxes and international governments GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: Launch with the minimum feature set that proves your core hypothesis: Pavelle shipped Doctronic in September 2023 without user accounts—chats disappeared when closed unless users saved them manually. Within days, user requests for persistent chat history validated demand. The insight: your MVP should test one assumption, not solve every user need. If you're hesitating to launch because features are missing, ask whether those features are actually required to validate your hypothesis or just things you assume users want. Use specificity to unlock early adoption in skeptical markets: Rather than targeting "healthcare" broadly, Pavelle posted in Facebook groups for specific chronic conditions, offering a free AI backed by clinical guidelines. Half the groups banned them for commercial activity, but the other half engaged immediately. The lesson: in regulated or skeptical markets, narrow targeting with explicit safety mechanisms (clinical guidelines, physician co-founder credibility) converts better than broad positioning. Identify where your skeptics congregate and address their specific objections upfront. Design system architecture to prevent failure modes, not just tune models: Doctronic's safety architecture separates AI decision-making from prescription execution. The LLM asks questions and determines renewal safety, but deterministic code outside the AI verifies the prescription exists, checks dosage accuracy, and confirms the schedule. Even if adversarial prompting compromises the LLM, the deterministic layer prevents bad outcomes. Founders building high-stakes AI products should architect multiple independent verification layers rather than relying on prompt engineering or temperature tuning alone. Target regulatory pain points with quantified deaths and costs: Pavelle approached Utah with specific numbers: 125,000 preventable deaths annually from medication non-adherence, 30-40% caused by renewal friction, and a $100B economic burden. These statistics—combined with Utah's rural population and physician shortage—made the problem impossible to ignore. When approaching regulators, lead with mortality and cost data that make inaction untenable, not just efficiency gains or convenience improvements. Regulatory sandboxes require proof of safety methodology, not just technology demos: Utah's AI Learning Lab didn't just grant Doctronic permission—they required a three-phase oversight structure where human physicians review 100% of initial prescriptions in each medication class, then 10%, then ongoing spot checks. Pavelle also secured AI malpractice insurance through Lloyd's Market before launch. The insight: regulatory innovation offices want risk mitigation frameworks, not promises. Build and fund your oversight methodology before approaching regulators, and treat insurance underwriting as a third-party validation of your safety claims. Publish clinical validation studies before scaling—they become your regulatory and sales asset: The study showing 99.2% agreement between Doctronic's AI and human physicians across 500 patient encounters became the foundation for regulatory conversations and public trust. Founders in regulated spaces should budget for formal validation studies early—these aren't marketing expenses, they're the permission structure for everything that follows. Work backward from what regulators and enterprise buyers need to see, then design studies that generate that specific evidence. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM
I talk to leaders every week. Six figures. Multiple six figures. Big teams. Big titles.And almost all of them are asking for the same thing.Not motivation. Not content. Not another tactic.They're asking for clarity and structure. A way to actually develop leaders without babysitting everyone. A system that creates duplication instead of dependence.In this episode, I break down the one thing leaders are asking for most right now, why it's missing in this profession, and how the illusion of leadership keeps people busy but stuck.Most leaders look successful on paper. But behind the scenes, their teams aren't duplicating. New leaders aren't emerging. Momentum depends on personality instead of systems.That's not a motivation problem. That's a leadership development problem.I also walk through exactly what I built to solve this.A 17-page leadership development framework. A custom GPT trained on all of my books and over 50 trainings. Not for hype. Not for content creation. But for helping leaders scale, simplify, and develop other leaders consistently.This work became the foundation for ICON Mastermind.ICON is application-only and built specifically for six-figure and multiple six-figure earners who are done collecting ideas and ready to build real leadership depth, real systems, and real duplication.If you're serious about leading at a higher level, you'll hear yourself in this episode.Apply here: www.theiconmastermind.com
WBSRocks: Business Growth with ERP and Digital Transformation
Send us a textThis cluster of announcements illustrates how enterprise software vendors are converging on monetizable AI, composable ecosystems, and domain-specific depth rather than headline platform reinvention. Product expansions such as BillingPlatform's RevenueIQ suite, Epicor's outcomes-based ERP AI agent, and BlackLine's Verity for the CFO signal a shift toward AI that is tightly anchored to measurable financial and operational outcomes. At the same time, M&A and alliances—including IFS acquiring 7bridges, Salesforce's planned acquisition of Regrello, QAD partnering with Esker, and Versori partnering with Fluent Commerce—reinforce a strategy of filling execution gaps through targeted capabilities rather than broad-suite sprawl. Underpinning much of this activity, Oracle's deployment of GPT-5 across its database and SaaS portfolio underscores how foundational AI services are becoming embedded infrastructure, while workforce and go-to-market expansions from ActivTrak and Capacity's acquisition of KLaunch highlight continued investment in productivity, adoption, and execution at the edges of the enterprise stack.In today's episode, we invited a panel of industry analysts for a live discussion on LinkedIn to analyze current enterprise software stories. We covered many grounds, including the direction and roadmaps of each enterprise software vendor. Finally, we analyzed future trends and how they might shape the enterprise software industry.Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdCqxl1NXBIQuestions for Panelists?
This week's episode is a case study in what AI looks like when it's doing real work. Juan Garcia runs an insurance company in Spain. Industry average profit margin is 5%. He's at 15%, headed for 18%. The difference? Five AI agents in production doing real work. Not pilot projects. Not demos for the board. Actual agents handling claims, customer questions, marketing decisions, fraud detection, and underwriting. His claims adjusters went from 10 cases a day to 50 because the AI does everything except the stuff that actually needs a human. Here's the thing. Juan started this in mid-2023 with GPT-3.5. His team built 75 subagents to control quality on that first chatbot. That's the kind of smart engineering that makes AI work in production. He'll tell you exactly when to let the AI decide, when to kick it to a human, and why confidence thresholds matter more than anyone talks about. He'll also tell you where they won't use AI. Rejecting claims. Handling money. Anything that needs actual empathy. You can't fake that and you shouldn't try. Want to know what works in production? Juan's got the decisions and the profit margins to back it up. Also in this episode: Juan's Tuio presentation
Protecting your ideas can be the difference between building momentum and watching someone else run with your work. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with patent attorney and entrepreneur Devin Miller to explore what founders and business owners really need to know about patents, trademarks, and intellectual property. Devin shares how his background in engineering, startups, and law shaped his approach to innovation, and he breaks down the real differences between provisional and non-provisional patents in clear, practical terms. We talk about common mistakes entrepreneurs make, how legal protection supports growth instead of slowing it down, and why understanding intellectual property early can help you compete with confidence. I believe this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and a stronger foundation for protecting what you work so hard to create. Highlights: 00:01:18 – Hear how growing up in a small town shaped Devin's approach to problem-solving and business.00:12:53 – Learn why Devin combined engineering, business, and law instead of choosing a single career path.00:19:32 – Discover how a student competition turned into a real wearable technology startup.00:30:57 – Understand the clear difference between patents, trademarks, and copyrights.00:33:05 – Learn when a provisional patent makes sense and when it does not.00:53:52 – Discover what practical options exist when competitors copy or knock off your product. About the Guest: Devin Miller is the founder of Miller IP, a firm launched in 2018 that helps startups and small businesses protect their inventions and brands without breaking the bank. He's overseen over a thousand patent and trademark filings with a 95 percent success rate on patents and an 85 percent success rate on trademarks, making sure garage inventors and side hustlers get the same high-quality service as big tech. Before starting his firm, Devin spent years at large law firms working with clients like Intel and Amazon, but he found his true passion in helping scrappy entrepreneurs turn ideas into assets. He blends legal know how with an entrepreneur's mindset, offering flat fee packages, DIY legal tools, and hosting webinars and a podcast series to demystify IP. A lifelong runner who knocks out 10+ miles a day and 30-40 miles daily biking (except Sunday), Devin listens to audiobooks and podcasts while training for marathons. When he's not drafting office action responses or co-hosting Inventive Journey, you might catch him brainstorming the next Inventive Youth program or sipping coffee while sketching partnership agreements. Ways to connect with Devin**:** If you'd like to talk strategy or swap running playlist recs, feel free to schedule a chat at http://strategymeeting.com LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawwithmiller/ Firm website [https://www.lawwithmiller.com](https://www.lawwithmiller.com "https://www.lawwithmiller.com") About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello to all of you, wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to or watching or both unstoppable mindset and I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Devin Miller, who founded the company, Miller IP, and he'll tell us all about that and what that means and so on as we go through this. But I will tell you that he is a lawyer. He deals with patents and other things and a lot of stuff relating to startups. I think that's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. So without any further ado, as it were, Devin, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Well, we're glad. We're glad you're here. Can you hear me? Okay, now I hear you. Devin Miller 02:06 Well, we're sorry for the delay, but I said I'm excited to be here and looking forward to chatting. Michael Hingson 02:11 Well, perfect. Well, let's start. I love to always do this. Let's start kind of at the beginning. Why don't you tell us about the early Devon, growing up and all that? Devin Miller 02:21 You know, I I'm happy to do. I don't know there's anything that probably stands out. I was probably fairly typical. So I was raised in a religious family, so we're attended church regularly every week. And I had a couple sisters, an older and a younger one, and was went through, went through schooling and or studied, probably the typical course. So I don't know there's anything stands out. I was in a small town, so grew up as, probably not as small as I'd like it to be anymore, but a small farming town, and it was, it was kind of always enjoyed the small town fill, and actually am back to being in that same hometown where I live now with my family. But yeah, so I did that, and I did probably the at the time, the typical thing with the it's growing up with kids and sports and doing things, and went through high school and and after that, jumped or went off to college. But I don't know if there's anything in particular that stands out in my mind, other than probably, at least in my mind, a pretty typical childhood and upbringing, but enjoyed it nonetheless. But happy to provide any details or I can jump into a bit about college. Michael Hingson 03:38 Well, where did you go to college? Devin Miller 03:40 Yeah, so I went to Brigham, young university, just or BYU, just out here in Utah. So I went off to so, or I graduated high school and I went off to a year of college. So I went off to BYU, kind of intending to go into electrical engineering, which is what I or one of the degrees I ended up studying with, and then I did that for a year, and after which I went off and did a served a religious mission for my church, so Church of Jesus Christ, or Latter Day Saints, otherwise nicknamed Mormon. So I went off and went to Taiwan for about two years. So didn't have any idea, even at that point where Taiwan was and certainly didn't know the language, but when studied that, or they have a training center where you get an opportunity to study it for about three months. So I studied it and then went off to Taiwan and served that religious mission for my church for a couple years before coming back to the high school, or good, not the high school to college to continue my studies. Michael Hingson 04:43 I several, several comments. One, I know what you mean about small hometowns. We moved from Chicago, where I was born, to California when I was five, we moved to a town called Palmdale, and it was a very small rural town about 60. Five miles north of Los Angeles. I don't know what the population was when we first moved there, but it couldn't have been more than 1000 or 1500 people spread out over a little bit of a distance. For me, it was great, because without there being a lot of traffic, I was able to do things I might not have done nearly as well in Chicago things like riding a bike, learning to ride a bike and walking to school and and not ever fearing about walking to school for any reasons, including being blind. But oftentimes I once I learned how to do it, I rode my own bike to school and locked it in the bike rack and then rode home and all that. But then Palmdale started to grow and I'm not quite sure what the population is today, but I live in a town about 55 miles east of Palmdale called Victorville, and as I described Victorville growing up, it was not even a speck on a radar scope compared to the small town of Palmdale, but we we moved down to Southern California from the Bay Area my wife and I to be closer to family and so on. In 2014 we wanted to build a house for Karen, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. So we wanted to get a a house that would be accessible. And my gosh, the only place we could find any property was Victorville. And at that time, in 2014 it had 115,000 people in it. It has grown. Now it Devin Miller 06:31 has grown. And it tends to be that, you know, it feels like everybody's always kind of chasing the small town then, or people find out about it. Everybody moves in. It's no longer a small town, and then you're off to chasing the the next small town, wherever that might be. So it's kind of a perpetual cycle of of chasing that small or at least for the people to like it. Not everybody loves it, but I'm certainly a proponent of chasing that small town feel from from place to places, as you're trying to or trying to find or recreate what you probably grew up with. So it is a it is a cycle that everybody I think is chasing, Michael Hingson 07:09 yeah, well, for me now, my wife passed away in 2022 we were married 40 years. And so the thing about it is that there are probably advantages for me living alone, being in a place that has a few more people and a few more of the kind of amenities that at least somewhat larger towns have, like a Costco and some some restaurants. We actually live in a homeowner's development, a homeowner's association called Spring Valley Lake, and I live within walking distance of the Country Club, which has a nice restaurant, so I'm able to go to the to the restaurant whenever I choose, and that's kind of nice. So there's value for me and being here and people say, Well, do you ever want to move from Victorville now that your wife died? And why do I want to do that? Especially since I have a 3.95% mortgage? You know, I'm not going to do that, and I'm in a new house that. Well, relatively new. It was built in 2016 so it's pretty much built to code. And insulation is great. Solar is great on the house. Air conditioning works, so I can't complain. Devin Miller 08:20 No, sounds like a good setup, and it's kind of one where, why, if you enjoy where you're at, why would you move to go somewhere else that you wouldn't necessarily enjoy? So it just sounds like it works out. Michael Hingson 08:29 Well, it does, and I can always, as I need to being a keynote speaker and traveling, there's a shuttle that'll take me down to the nearest airports. So that works out. Well, that's awesome. So you went to, I'm a little bit familiar with the the whole LDS missionary program, Mission program, we we were not part of the church, but we lived, when my wife and I got married, we lived in Mission Viejo and we had neighbors right next door to us, who were members of the church, and they came over one day and they said, we have an issue. And I said, Okay. And my wife said, Okay, what's the issue? Well, we have a couple of missionaries coming in, and the only homes that are available to these two boys are homes that already have young female girls in them. So they really can't be in those homes. Would you be willing to rent your one of your rooms to missionaries? And so we said, and well, Karen said, because she was a member of the Methodist church, we said, as long as they don't try to mormonize us, we won't try to methodize them. And we would love to do it. And it worked out really well. We had a couple of missionaries for a while, and then they switched out. And eventually we had a gentleman from Tonga for a while, and we actually had a couple girls for for a while. So it worked out really well, and we we got to know them all, and it was a great relationship. And they did their work, and at Christmas time, they certainly were invited to our Christmas parties. We. Had every year a party. What we actually had was what we call a Christmas tree upping. We got the tree, we brought it into the house, and we invited all of our friends and neighbors to come and decorate the tree in the house. Because, needless to say, we weren't going to do that very well. Karen especially wasn't going to be able to stand up and decorate the tree. So we got them to do all the tree decorations and all that, and we fed them. So it worked out. Devin Miller 10:26 Well, it's awesome. Sounds like, great. And you hit on. I said, that's probably my, my favorite part of the Christmas is a Christmas tree. So growing up, we always had a real live tree, but it was always, you know, it was downstairs in the basement, and had lower ceilings. And so I was always kind of the opinion, hey, when I grow up, I want to have the a huge, you know, kind of like in the newbies at 20 plus or 20 or 20 plus foot tree, yeah. And lo and behold, we, or at least the couple houses that we build have always had, at least in the living space, have had the pretty high ceilings. And so that's always what we do. We'll go out and we'll cut down a live tree. So we'll go out to kind of in nature, to the forest, where they let you cut them down, and we'll, we'll cut down, usually it's around a 20 plus foot tree, and then have it strung up in the house. And I always tell my wife, I said, I'd rather that one could be my Christmas present. I'd be just as happy, because as long as I have my tree, it's a good Christmas for me. Michael Hingson 11:23 Yeah, oh, I hear you. Well, one of the boys who lived next door to us went off on a mission to, I think it was Argentina, and was gone for, I guess, two years. What was really funny is when he came back, it took him a while to re acclimatize his speaking English and getting back his American accent. He was he definitely had much more of a Spanish accent, and was much more used to speaking Spanish for a while. So the the three month exposure period certainly got him started at the at the center there in Utah. And then he went off and did his missionary work and then came home. But, you know, it's, it's got to be a wonderful and a very valuable experience. How do you think it affected you? Devin Miller 12:10 Yeah, I think I said, I think it would be, you said it probably well, is it like one where to say, Hey, this is the most fun time in your life, and you'll never have a more fun time. I don't know that. It's kind of like, you know, I liken it to I so I like to do a lot of running, so or in older years. I don't know that I was as much in younger years, but kind of discovered not that I love running, per se, but love to get out and decompress and otherwise, kind of have a time where I don't have a lot of intrusions or other things that are pressing in on life. And so with that, you know, I've done a number of marathons and marathons, you know, everybody again, says, Well, did you have fun? Or was it a good or was it good marathon? So I don't know that it's ever fun. I don't and do it, but it's a good accomplishment. You it's, you go out, you set your mind to something, and then otherwise, at the end of the day, you reach your goal. And, you know, kind of has the that sense of accomplishment and learning and become improving yourself. That's probably a lot of how I like in a mission is, you know, you have a lot of stresses of learning a new language, being in a different culture, doing something that you're unfamiliar with or not accustomed to, and at the end, you know, you learn a lot of things, you are gain a lot of skills. You hopefully impact a lot of people's lives for the better. And so it is definitely one of those where it's a great accomplishment, but it's not, you know, it's not one way to say, hey, this was a fun vacation where I got to go play for two years. So it it works out well, and I would absolutely do it again. Michael Hingson 13:31 Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot, and you probably learned a whole lot more in a lot of ways, than most of the people that you you visited with because you treated it as an adventure and an adventure to learn. So that's pretty cool, absolutely. So you came back from that and you went back to college, and did you continue in electrical engineering? Or what Devin Miller 13:56 did you do? Yes and no. So I did continue in electrical engineering. Or so I came back and, you know, the intent was, and what I continue to do is to study electrical engineering. I did add on a second degree, which I was a Mandarin Chinese and so I can't remember, I mentioned I I served in Taiwan for those couple years and had an opportunity to kind of, you know, learn and study the language. So as I was doing that, I kind of came back and said, Well, if I've already put in the effort to learn the language and to study it, I might as well, you know, utilize it, or add it to the degree. And so I I really started, or I added that as a second degree to the first degree. So I came out with both the degree in Chinese or man or Chinese, as well as electrical engineering. So yes, continue to study that. And then from that, you know, kind of just as a part of that story. So I was coming out, kind of getting, you know, the senior year, kind of getting towards the end of that degree, and looked at and said, you know, what do I want to do when I grow up? And I still know if I know the full answer, but I did look at it and say, Hey, I, you know, I don't know exactly what I want to do when I grow up, but I don't, I like engineering. Engineering, but I don't want to be an engineer in the sense that, you know, not that I didn't like engineering, but it was one where a typical electrical engineers, you come out of graduate school, you go work for a big company. You're a very small cog and a very big Will you work for. You know, 1015, years, you gain enough experience to have any say your direction and what projects you work on or really have any impact. Not saying that's not really what I want to do when I grow up, or when I start into the working world. And so kind of with that, I, you know, I had a couple interests I enjoyed, you know, kind of the startup, small business, kind of that type of world. And I also found it interesting to on the legal aspect of intellectual property, so patents, trademarks, and really more. At the idea of, hey, you're going to work with a lot of cooling or cool inventions, cool people are working on a lot of unique things, and you get a lot more variety. And you get, you know, kind of be more impactful. And so that was kind of the the Crossroads I found myself at saying which, you know, kind of which direction I want to go. And, you know, kind of, rather than take one or the other, I kind of, I split the road and decided I was going to do both. So I went off to graduate school and did both an MBA or a master's in business administration as well as a law degree, kind of focused more on intellectual property. So went off and studied both of those kind of with the intent of, you know, I don't want to just be fit into one box or do just one thing, but I'd like to keep a foot in the business world, startup world, and have an opportunity to pursue my own business as well as doing the law degree. So I did that in a Case Western Reserve out in Cleveland, Ohio, studying both of those degrees Michael Hingson 16:34 when you were getting your degree in manner, in Chinese. Was that all about speaking the language, or was it also involved in history and civilization and understanding more about China? What was it like? Devin Miller 16:47 It was really more, certainly, there was a or, I guess, are you saying within college or within the mission itself? 16:54 In college? Okay, yeah. I mean, it was, Devin Miller 16:57 it was still primarily focused on the language. You know, the nice thing is, you can test out of a number of the, you know, entry level or their beginning classes, as long as you can show a proficiency. So there may have been some of that, and you still got, you know, some of the classes, would you still study a little bit of poetry, or, you know, within the language context, they've used poetry as a way to kind of learn different aspects of the language. You'd get a little bit of history, but pretty, or vast majority of focus was kind of both speaking as well as the the written and, you know, those are really as opposed to, like English speaking, where it's phonetics and you can or sound out and kind of understand what a you know, what something means by sounding it out, you don't have to know the word in order To, you know, to pronounce it. Chinese is not that way. So you have characters that are just every character you have to memorize. There is no phonetics. There's no way that you can look at a character and sound it out. And so there's a large amount of just memorizing, memorizing, you know, 20,000 characters to read a newspaper type of a thing. And then on the flip side is you have to learn the language, which is, you know, which are already focused on that, more on the mission, but you have to do pronunciation, so you can say the same word with different tones and it has entirely different meaning. So really, there was enough there on the language side, they tended to primarily focus on that, just because there was quite a bit there to Michael Hingson 18:19 dive into. It's a complicated language. Devin Miller 18:23 It it is certainly or uniquely different from English. I would say probably English to Chinese speakers is the hardest language because it's the most different from their language. And vice versa for English speaking Chinese is at least one of the this or harder languages because it is entirely different. So it is one that has a lot of intricacies that you get to learn. Michael Hingson 18:45 I took German in high school for three years, and then in college, I did a lot of shortwave listening and encountered radio Japan a bunch. So I actually took a year of Japanese, and I think from a written language, it's a lot more complicated than spoken language. I think it's a lot more straightforward than Chinese and a lot of ways easier to learn. But even so, it is different than than Latin languages by any standard. Devin Miller 19:16 But it is. It's an animal in and of itself, but it makes it fun. Michael Hingson 19:21 Yeah, that's right, it does make it fun. Incident. And then, as I said, it was an adventure. And all of that was, was an adventure. My master's is in physics. That was an adventure. And until you spend a lot of time dealing with physics and hopefully getting beyond just doing the math, you learn how much of a philosophical bent and how much about society and the way things work really is wrapped up in physics. So again, it's it's kind of fun, and unlike a lot of physicists or engineers. I've never thought that one is better or worse than the other. I think they both have purposes. And so as a physics person, I never pick on engineers. Devin Miller 20:11 I am, I wouldn't pick up. I wouldn't pick on any physics or physicists or physics majors, either, because that's equally, if not more difficult. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on and involved with all of them. But they're all of them are fun areas to Michael Hingson 20:26 study with. They are. So once you you got your master's degrees, and you you got your law degree, what did you go off and do? Devin Miller 20:36 Yeah, so I mean, I would probably back it up just a little bit. So kind of during that period where I was getting the degrees, couple things happened. Had a couple kids. So started out first kid while I was doing the, I guess the second year where I was in under or doing the law and MBA degree, doing it as a joint degree. And so had the had a kid. And then during that same period, the next year, about a year about a year and a half later, had another kid. And so that puts me as a it's a four year program, if you combine both of them together. And so I was in the kind of the third year, the four year program. And while I was doing those studies, you know, I had a I was doing a couple things. One is, I was doing the both, or studying both majors, raising the family. I was working about 20 hours as a law clerk or for a law firm, and then during that, I can't remember or if it was a flyer, or if it was, you know, an email or whatnot, but came across a business competition, or it's kind of a, it was kind of a, a multi disciplinary competition wherever, you know, people of different degrees and different fields of study would get together, you form a group of four or five, and you work on developing an idea, and then you would enter it into the competition and see how it goes. And so we did that the first year, and we did something, an idea to make Gym Bags less smelly, and then enter that in and took second place. And during that period, next year comes along, we're all in our final year of our degree. And as we're doing that, we are studying the degree and or entering the competition again. And we decided to do something different. It was for wearables. You know, this is before Apple Watch, or, you know, the Fitbit, or anything else. It was well before I knew that, but we just said, Hey, when I was there, thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool I'd ran my or, I think, my second marathon that time. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could monitor your hydration level so that you can make sure you're staying well hydrated throughout and it helps with the air, not being a sore and being, you know, quicker recovery and performing better. And so out of that, took the genesis of that idea, entered it back into the business comp, or that is a new idea, into the business competition, and did that with the partners, and took second place again, still a little bitter, or bitter that about that, because the people that took first place has entered the same thing that they entered the previous year, but polished, or took the money they've earned previously and polished it made it look a little nicer, and won again because it looked the most polished. But that aside, was a great, or great competition. Enjoyed it. And from that, you know, said, Hey, I think this is a good idea. I think it can be a, you know, something that you could actually build a business around. And so said, Hey, or kind of told the the people that were in the the group with me, you know, we're all graduating. We're going different directions. Would be pretty hard to do a startup altogether. So why don't we do this? Or why don't you guys take all the money that I got, you know that we you're in some reward money, or, you know, prize money. If you take my portion, split it amongst yourselves, and I'll just take ownership of the idea, whatever it is, where, you know, wherever I take it, and simply own it outright, you know, basically buying them out. And so that's what I did. So coming out of, you know, getting the MBA in the law degree, that was kind of always the intent. So, or coming out of school, I went and joined a law firm here in Utah. Was a full time patent attorney, and then alongside, you know, had the side hustle, what I'd really say is kind of a second full time job to where I was, you know, pursuing that startup or small business alongside of doing the law firm. So that was kind of the the genesis for, as I graduated full time attorney working, you know, with a lot of our cool clients and other things, and then also incorporating the desire to do a startup or small business. And that's kind of been, really, the trajectory that I've taken throughout my career is really, you know, finding ways to combine or to pursue both interests together. Michael Hingson 24:26 What happened to the business? Devin Miller 24:28 Yeah, so it so it's still alive today. I've been, I exited. Now it's been a couple year and a half, two years somewhere in there. Have to think back. So it started out. So with the business I started out, it was actually one where, rewinding just a little bit when we when I got started, my dad was also an electrical engineer. He'd actually, you know, he's well or farther into his career, and he done a number of different things across their medical devices through his career. And so he kind of, or he joined on as kind of doing it with us. Hustle with me, and we took that, started to build it. We brought on some additional team members. We brought on an investor, and actually built out and grew the business. It also evolved. So we were starting to test or test out the technology have it with some colleges and some other, you know, athletes, which was a natural place to start it at and about that time, and we were getting kind of to that next hurdle where we either needed to get a further investment or cash infusion, you know, to kind of take it to a more of a marketable, you know, a except a Polish full or ready to go to market type of product. And at that time, as we're exploring that we had or came or got connected with somebody that was more in the diabetes monitoring, they were doing it more from a service base. But you know, the overlay as to kind of how the technologies are overlapped with what they're doing tended to work out pretty well. And so we ended up combining the business to be one, where it was redirected a lot of the technology we developed underlining to be more of a wearables for the diabetes monitor. So that was a number of years ago. I stayed on doing a lot of, some of the engineering and development, primarily more in the intellectual property realm, of doing a lot of patents and whatnot. And then about a year and a half, two years ago, got bought out, was exited from that company and and that continues on today. It's still alive and growing, and I kind of watch it from, you know, from a distance, so to speak, or kind of continue to maintain interest, but don't are not necessarily active within the business anymore. So that was kind of a long answer to a shorter question, but that's kind of where the business eventually evolved to. Michael Hingson 26:36 So now I'm sure that the company is doing things like developing or working with products like continuous glucose monitors and so on. Devin Miller 26:46 Yep, yeah, that's kind of the direction as to what they're headed you Michael Hingson 26:49 well, and what's what's been interesting about several of the CGM type devices is that for people who are blind, there's been a real push to try to get some of them to be accessible. And what finally occurred about a year ago, maybe two years ago, is that one of the devices that's out there was approved to actually incorporate an app on a smartphone, and when the app came out, then it was really easy, although it took an effort to convince people to pay attention to it and do it, but it became technically a lot easier to deal with access, because all you had to do was to make the app accessible. And so there now is a continuous glucose monitor that that is accessible, whereas you wherein you get all the information from the app through voiceover, for example, on the iPhone or through talkback on a android phone that you get when you're just looking at the screen, which is the way it really should be anyway, because If you're going to do it, you should be inclusive and make it work for everyone. Devin Miller 28:06 No, that's cool. Yeah, there's a number of I think, between, you know, being a prevalent, you know, issue that people are dealing with, to, you know, different trying to address things earlier on, and also to motivate people do healthier lifestyle. And kind of the direction I think, is headed where a lot of the the company that's continues on today, from our original technology, is on the non invasive side. So a lot of them have, you have to have a patch, or you have to have periodically prick, or put an arm, you know, arm, right? Something where has a needle in the arm. And this one is kind of trying hair working to take it to that next level, to where it's no longer having to be invasive, and it's really all without having air with sensors that don't require you to have any sort of pain or prick in order to be able to utilize it. So kind of fun to fun to see how the industry continues to evolve. Michael Hingson 28:55 Well, today, we're working on that, and tomorrow, of course, the tricorder. So you know, we'll, we'll get to Star Trek 29:03 absolutely one step at a time. Michael Hingson 29:05 Yeah, but I've kind of figured that people were certainly working on non invasive technology so that you didn't have to have the sensor stuck in your arm. And I'm not surprised that that that's coming, and we'll be around before too long, just because we're learning so much about other ways of making the measurements that it makes sense to be able to do that. Devin Miller 29:31 Yep, no, absolutely. You know, it is a hard nut to crack. The body is very complex. A lot of things going on, and to measure it, not invasively, is certainly a lot that goes into it, but I think there's a lot of good, good technologies coming out. A lot of progress is being made, and certainly fun to continue to see how the health devices continue to hit the market. So certainly a cool area. Michael Hingson 29:53 So why did you decide, or maybe it was a natural progression, but why did you decide to go into patent law? Yeah. Devin Miller 30:01 I mean, I think it was probably a natural progression, and in the sense that, you know, it is one where overall desire was, Hey, I like engineering from the sense I like to think or how things work and kind of break things down and to have a better understanding. So really, intellectual property law and patents and trademarks and others allowed me to work with a lot of startups and small businesses, see a lot of cool things that they're developing still play a hand in it, and yet, also not, you know, be mired down to a long project over multiple years where you, you know, you're a small cog in a big wheel. And so, yeah, that was kind of one where it fit well within kind of the overall business, you know, business desire and business aspect of what I wanted to accomplish, and also just overall, you know, enjoying it or enjoying it. So that's kind of where it might, you know, it married well with the the desire to do startups and small businesses, as well as to work with a lot of other startups and small businesses. Michael Hingson 30:55 That's a lot of fun, to be able to deal with startups and see a lot of new and innovative kinds of things. And being in patent law, you probably see more than a lot of people, which does get to be exciting in an adventure, especially when you see something that looks like it has so much potential. Yep. Devin Miller 31:14 No, it is. It is fun. I get to see everything from I've worked on everything from boat anchors to credit card thing or devices that help elderly people to remove them more easily, from their wallet to AI to drones to software other or software platforms to medical devices. So it gives a ability to have a pretty good wide exposure to a lot of cool, different, you know, very different types of innovations, and that makes her just, you know, a fun, fun time, and be able to work or work with the air businesses as they develop. Are all those different technologies? Michael Hingson 31:50 Well, on the the law side of things, what's the difference between a provisional patent and a non provisional filing? Devin Miller 31:57 Yeah, so, so I don't back it up, and I'll get to your question. But maybe I'd set the stages to when you're looking at what is the difference between a patent and trademark and copyright, because a lot of times when people look at that, that's probably a good question too. Provisional trademark, or I want a, you know, or a non provisional copyright, or whatever it might be, and kind of get the terminology mixed up. So if you're to take it one step back, a provisional patent app or a patent is something that goes towards protecting an invention. So something that has the functionality that does something, that accomplishes something, a trademark is going to be something that is protecting of a brand. So name of a company, name of a product, a cash, phrase, a logo, and those type of things all really fall under trademarks and copyrights are going to be something that's more creative in nature. So a painting, a sculpture, a picture, a book, you know, all those type of things are going to fall under copyrights. And so really, when you're looking at it, you know, kind of breaking it down initially, you look at it as you know, which one is it. And so now to your question, Michael Hingson 32:58 well, before you go there, before you go ahead, before you go there. So if I'm writing software, does that fall under patent or copyright? I would assume if the software is to do something, it would be a patent. Devin Miller 33:12 So software primarily is under a patent. So there's, technically, you can copyright software. Now there's, it's pretty limited in its scope of protection. So if you're to do or software and do it under a copyright, really, all it protects is the exact way that you wrote the code. So you know, got it using this exact coding language. If somebody come along, copy and paste my code, you'll be protected. But it doesn't protect the functionality of how this code works or what it does. It is purely just how you wrote the code. So most of the time, when you're looking at software, it's really going to be more under a patent, because you're not going to want to just simply protect the identical way that you wrote the code, but rather what it does and what it does, yeah. So yep. So yeah, you for if you're to do as as your example, software, primarily, you're going to it's going to fall under patents. Michael Hingson 34:01 Okay, so anyway, back to provisional and non provisional. Devin Miller 34:05 Yeah, so, and when you're looking at doing a patent, you can do there's a couple different types of patents. One is a design patent. It really just goes to something the esthetic nature, the look and feel of a of an invention. So if you're thinking of the iPhone, you know, used to have the curved edges. I had the circle or a button at the bottom. It had, you know, the speaker placement and all those things. And it was just that outward appearance, not the functionality, could go under a design patent, but what the primary patent, which is what most people pursue, is what's called the utility patent application. And the utility patent application is really going towards the functionality of how something works. So the utility, how it works, what it does, and then kind of the purpose of it. And so with that, when you're looking at pursuing a utility patent application, there are a couple different types of patents that you can or types of utility patent patent applications. So. As you mentioned, one is called a provisional patent application. The other one is called a non provisional patent application. So a provisional patent application is kind of set up primarily, a lot of times for startups or small businesses where they're going to have a some product or an innovation that they're working on. They're in earlier stages. They're wanting to kind of protect what they have while they continue to develop it, and kind of flush it out. So provisional patent application is set up to be a one year placeholder application. So it will get, you know, you file it, you'll get patent pending, you'll get a date of invention, and it'll give you a year to decide if you want to pursue a full patent application or not. So you can file that gives you that one year time frame as a placeholder. The non provisional patent application would be the full patent application. So that would be what has, all the functionality, all the features, all the air, formalities and air, and it will go through the examination process. We'll go look at it for patentability. So those are kind of the difference provisional, one year, placeholder, less expensive, get your patent pending, versus the non provisional, that's the full patent application and gives you kind of that, or we'll go through examination. Michael Hingson 36:12 Do most people go through the provisional process just because it not only is less expensive, but at least it puts a hold and gives you a place. Devin Miller 36:22 It really just depends on where people are at. So kind of, you know, a lot of times people ask, Hey, well, what would you recommend? And I'll usually say, hey, there are typically two reasons why I would do a provisional patent application. And if you don't fall into either of those camps, then I would probably do a non provisional patent. Got it. So generally, the two reasons I get one is certainly budgetary. Give you an example. So our flat fee, you know, we do our primarily everything, flat fee in my firm, and a provisional patent application to prepare and file it, our flat fee is 2500 versus a non provisional patent application is 6950 so one is, Hey, your startup, small business, to have a limited funds, you're wanting to get a level of protection in place while you continue to pursue or develop things, then you would oftentimes do that as a provisional patent application. And the other reason, a lot of times where I would recommend it is, if you're saying, Hey, we've got a initial innovation, we think it's going to be great. We're still figuring things out, so we'd like to get something in place while we continue to do that research and develop it and kind of further figure it out. So that would be kind of, if you fall into one of those camps where it's either budgetary overlay, or it's one where you're wanting to get something in place and then take the next year to further develop it, then a provisional patent application is oftentimes a good route. There are also a lot of clients say, Hey, I'm, you know, we are pretty well. Did the Research Development getting ready to release it in the marketplace. While we don't have unlimited funds, we still have the ability to just simply go or go straight to a non provisional so we can get the examination process started, and then they'll go that route. So both of them are viable route. It's not kind of necessarily. One is inherently better or worse than the other is kind of more where you're at along the process and what, what kind of fits your needs the best. Michael Hingson 38:09 But at least there is a process that gives you options, and that's always good. Absolutely, patent laws, I well, I won't say it's straightforward, but given you know, in in our country today, we've got so many different kinds of things going on in the courts and all that, and sometimes one can only shake one's head at some of the decisions that are made regarding politics and all that, but that just seems to be a whole lot more complicated and a lot less straightforward than what you do With patent law? Is that really true? Or are there lots of curves that people bend things to go all sorts of different ways that make life difficult for you? Devin Miller 38:50 Um, probably a little bit of both. I think that it so. The law, legal system in general, is a much more slower moving enemy, so it does have a bit more of a kind of a basis to anticipate where things are headed in general. Now, the exception is, there always is an exception to the rule. Is that anytime the Supreme Court gets involved with patent law cases, I'd say 95% of the time, they make it worse rather than better. So, you know, you get judges that none of them are really have an experience or background in patent law. They've never done it. They really don't have too much familiarity with it, and now they're getting posed questions that are fairly involved in intricate and most of the time when they make decisions, they make it worse. It's less clear. You know, it's not as great of understanding, and it otherwise complicates things more. And so when you get the Supreme Court involved, then they can kind of make it more difficult or kind of shake things up. But by and large, it is a not that there isn't a lot of or involved in going through the process to convince the patent and examiner the patent office of patentability and make sure it's well drafted and has the it's good of coverage and scope, but at least there is, to a degree, that ability to anticipate. Hate, you know what it what's going to be required, or what you may likely to be looking at. You know? The other exception is, is, you know, the, ironically, I think the patent office is the only budget or producing or budget positive entity within all of the government. So every other part of the government spends much more money than they ever make. The Patent Office is, I think the, I think the postal office at one point was the other one, and they have, now are always in the in the red, and never make any money. But, you know, they are the patent office. Now, the problem with that is, you think, great, well now they can reinvest. They can approve, they should have the best technology, they should be the most up to date. They should have, you know, all the resources because they're self funding, and yet, there's always a piggy bank that the government goes to raid and redirects all those funds to other pet projects. And so, or the patent office is always, perpetually underfunded, as ironic as that is, because they're getting, always getting the piggy bank rated, and so with that, you know, they are, if you're to go into a lot of the patent office, their interfaces, their websites or databases, their systems, it feels like you're the onset of the or late 90s, early 2000s as far as everything goes. And so that always is not necessarily your question, but it's always a bit aggravating that you know you can't, as an example, can't submit color drawings. People ask, can you submit videos? Nope, you can't submit any videos of your invention, you know, can you provide, you know, other types of information? Nope, it's really just a written document, and it is line drawings that are black and white, and you can't submit anything beyond that. So there's one where I think eventually it will sometime, maybe shift or change, but it's going to be not anytime soon. I don't think there's any time on the horizon, because they're kind of stuck it once they move, moved over to the lit or initially onto the computer system, that's about where that evolution stopped. Michael Hingson 41:51 Well, the other thing though, with with videos, especially when you get AI involved and so on, are you really seeing a video of the invention. Or are you seeing something that somebody created that looks great, but the invention may not really do it. So I can understand their arguments, but there have to be ways to deal with that stuff. Devin Miller 42:13 Yeah, and I think that even be prior to AI, even we just had, you know, videos been around for 20 or 30 years, even, you know, digital format or longer. That probably, and the problem is, I think it's more of the search ability. So if you have a drawing, you can more easily search drawings and compare them side by side, and they'll do it. If you have a video, you know what? What format is the video? And is it a, you know, dot movie, or dot MOV, or is it.mp for is it color? Is it black and white? How do you capture it? Is it zoomed in as a kind of show all the details? Or is it zoomed out? And I think that there's enough difficulty in comparing video side by side and having a rigid enough or standardized format, the patent office said, man, we're not going to worry about it. Yes, so we could probably figure something out, but that's more work than anybody, any administration or any of the directors of the patent office ever want to tackle so it's just always kind of kicked down the road. Michael Hingson 43:06 Do they ever actually want to see the invention itself? Devin Miller 43:12 Not really, I mean, you so the short answer is no. I mean, they want to see the invention as it's captured within the the patent application. So the problem Michael Hingson 43:21 is, the drawing, they don't want to see the actual device, or whatever it is, well, and a lot Devin Miller 43:24 of times, you know as a inventors, they you know as a patent applicants, as the inventors and the owners, you're saying, hey, but I want to show them the invention. Problem is, the invention doesn't always mirror exactly what's showing in the patent application. Because you're on generation three of your product patent application is still in generation one, yeah, and so it doesn't mirror, and so the examiners are supposed to, they don't always, or aren't always good, and sometimes pull things and they shouldn't, but they're supposed to just consider whatever is conveyed in the patent application. Yeah, it's a closed world. And so bringing those additional things in now you can, so technically, you can request a live in office interview with the examiner, where you sit down live. You can bring in your invention or other or details and information, and when you do it live, face to face with an interview, you can walk them through it. Most very few people attorneys ever do that because one clients aren't going to want to pay for you to one of the offices, put you up in a hotel, you know, sit there, spend a day or two to or with the examiner to walk them through it. It just adds a significant amount of expense. Examiners don't particularly like it, because they have to dedicate significantly more time to doing that. Yeah, they're allotted, so they lose they basically are doing a lot of free work, and then you're pulling in a lot of information that they really can't consider. So you technically can. But I would say that you know, the likelihood of the majority of attorneys, 99 point whatever, percent don't do that, including myself. I've never been to do a live or live one, just because it just doesn't, it doesn't have enough advantage to make it worthwhile. Michael Hingson 44:58 Well, in talking about. About the law and all the things that go on with it. One of the things that comes to mind is, let's say you have somebody in the United States who's patenting, or has made a patent. What happens when it all goes to it gets so popular, or whatever, that now it becomes an international type of thing. You've got, I'm sure, all sorts of laws regarding intellectual property and patents and so on internationally. And how do you get protection internationally for a product? Devin Miller 45:32 File it in each country separately. So, you know, there are people, and I understand the inclinations, hey, I want to get a worldwide or global patent that covers everything in every country. The short answer is, you can't. I mean, technically, you could, if you file a patent into every country separately, nobody, including when I used to work or do work for companies including Intel and Amazon and Red Hat and Ford. They don't have patents in every single country throughout the world because they just don't have enough marketplace. You know, you go to a very small, let's say, South African country that you know, where they just don't sell their product enough in it, it just doesn't make the sense, or the courts or the systems or the patent office isn't well enough to find, or it's not enforceable enough that it just doesn't capture that value. And so there isn't a ability to have a global, worldwide patent, and it really is one where you have to file into each country separately. They each have their own somewhat similar criteria, still a different, somewhat similar process, but they each have their own criteria in their process that has to go through examination. So when you're looking at you know when you want to go for whether it's in the US or any other country, when you're deciding where you want to file it, it's really a matter of what marketplaces you're going to be selling the product into. So if you look at it and you know, I have as an example, some clients that 95% of their marketplace is all in the US, that's where they anticipate, that's probably where they're going to sell it. Well, yes, you could go and find, if you have 2% of your marketplace in Japan, you could go file a patent and get it into Japan, but you have such a small amount of your marketplace that's probably there that it doesn't make sense. And vice versa will have as an example. And a lot of times in the medical devices, they'll a lot of times file both in the EU as well as in the US, because those are two of the predominant medical device and are places where a lot of innovation is going on, where there's a lot of focus on utilization, development, medical devices, and there's just a lot of that demand. And so you're really going to look at it is which, where's your marketplace. The other times are the people, a lot of times, they'll get tripped up on so they'll say, Well, I probably need to file into China, right? And I said, Well, maybe because the inclination is, well, everybody just goes to China. They'll knock off the product. And so I want to have a patent in China so that I can, you know, fight against the knockoffs. And that isn't while I again, understand why they would ask that question. It wouldn't be the right way to convey it. Because if you if all it is is they you have no real, you know, no desire, no plan, to go into China. You're not going to sell it. You're not going to build a business there. If they're knocking it off and just just doing it in China, so to speak, then they're not. There isn't going to be a need to file a patent in China, because you don't have any marketplace in there. There's nothing really to protect. And if somebody makes it in China as a just picking on China, making as an example, and imports it into the US, you can still enforce your patent or otherwise do or utilize it to stop people from importing knock off because it's in the US, because they're, yeah, exactly, they're selling it, importing it, or otherwise doing activities in the US. So it's really a matter of where your marketplace is, not where you think that somebody might knock it off. Or, Hey, I'm gonna get a try and get a global patent, even though my marketplace is really in one or two spots. Michael Hingson 48:38 What about products like, say, the iPhone, which are commonly used all over. Devin Miller 48:44 Yeah, they're going to do, they'll do a lot of countries. They still Michael Hingson 48:47 won't do. They'll still do kind of country by country. Devin Miller 48:50 Yeah, they'll now, they'll do a lot of countries. Don't get me wrong, a lot of right. Phones are sold throughout the world, but they'll still look at it as to where it is, and they still have, you know, issues with them. So one of the interesting tidbits as an example, so going back and rewinding your time, taking apple as an example. You know, they came out with, originally, the iPod, then they had iPhone, and then they had the iPad. Now the question is, when they originally came out with their watch, what did they call it? 49:17 Apple Watch? Apple Watch. Now, why Devin Miller 49:20 didn't they call the I wash, which is what it made sense. It goes right along with the iPhone, the iPad, the iPhone, you know, the all of those iPod on that. And it was because somebody had already got a trademark in China that was for a different company, unrelated to the apple that had it for the iWatch. And so when Apple tried to go into the country, they tried to negotiate. They tried to bully. They weren't able to successfully get the rights or to be able to use I wash within China. China was a big enough market, and so they had and rather than try and split it and call it the I wash everywhere but China and trying to have the Apple Watch in China, they opted to call it the Apple Watch. Now I think they might. Of eventually resolve that, and I think it's now can be referred to as the I watch, I'm not sure, but for, at least for a long period of time, they couldn't. They called it the Apple Watch when they released it, for that reason. So even if you have, you know, a big company and one of the biggest ones in the world, you still have to play by the same rules. And why, you can try and leverage your your size and your wealth and that to get your way, there's still those, there's still those hindrances. So that's kind of maybe a side, a side note, but it's kind of one that's interesting. Michael Hingson 50:30 So that's the trademark of how you name it. But how about the technology itself? When the Apple Watch was created, I'm assuming that they were able to patent that. Devin Miller 50:39 Yeah, they will have, I'm sure they probably have anywhere from 30 to 100 to 200 I mean, they'll have a significant amount of patents, even it's just within the Apple Watch, everything from the screen, the display, how it's waterproof, how it does communications, how does the battery management, how does the touch, how does the interface, all of those are going to be different aspects that they continue to, you know, did it originally in the original Apple Watch, and are always iterating and changing as they continue to improve the technology. So generally, you know that, I'm sure that you will start out with as a business of protecting you're getting a foundational patent where you kind of protect the initial invention, but if it's successful and you're building it out, you're going to continue to file a number of patents to capture those ongoing innovations, and then you're going to file it into all of the countries where you have a reasonable market size that makes it worthwhile to make the investment. Michael Hingson 51:32 So if you have a new company and they've got a name and all that, what should new businesses do in terms of looking and performing a comprehensive search for of trademarks and so on to make sure they are doing the right thing. Devin Miller 51:49 Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, it wanted, if you're it depends on the size of company, your budget, there's always the overlay of, you know, you can want to do everything in the world, and if you don't have the budget, then you have to figure out what goes in your budget. But if I'll take it from kind of a startup or a small business perspective, you know, you first thing you should do is just as stupid and as easy as it sounds, you should go do a Google search. Or, now that you have chat GPT, go do a chat BT search and a Google search. But, you know, because it's interesting as it sounds, or, you know, is you think that, oh, that's, you know, kind of give me or an automatic I'll have still even till today, people come into my office. They'll say, Hey, I've got this great idea, this great invention, and a Lacher getting a patent on it, and they'll start to walk me through it. I'm like, you know, I could have sworn I've seen that before. I've seen something very similar. We'll sit down at my desk, take two minutes, do a Google search, and say, so is this a product that you're thinking of? Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Well, you can't really get a patent on something that's already been invented and out there, and so, you know, do a little bit of research yourself. Now there is a double edged sword, because you can do research and sometimes you'll have one or two things happen. You'll not having the experience and background, not entirely knowing what you're doing. You'll do research, and you'll either one say, Hey, I've done a whole bunch of research. I can't really find anything that's similar. When, in fact, there's a lot of similar things out there. There's a patent, and people will say, yeah, it's the same, it's the same invention, but my purpose is a little bit different. Well, you can't if it's the exact same or invention. Whether or not you say your purpose is different, doesn't get around their patent and same thing on a trademark. Yeah, their brand's pretty much 53:20 identical, but they're Devin Miller 53:21 doing legal services and I'm doing legal tools, and so it's different, and it's, again, it's one where there's there they have a false sense of security because they rationalize in their head why it's different, or vice versa. You also get people that will say, Hey, this is even though it's significantly different, it's the same purpose. And so while, while they really could go do the product, while they could get a patent or a trademark, because they think that it's just overall kind of the same concept, then they talk themselves out of it when they don't need to. So I would say, start out doing some of that initial research. I would do it if I was in their shoes, but temper it with, you know, do it as an initial review. If there's something that's identical or the same that's out there, then it gives you an idea. Probably, you know, you're not going to be able to add a minimum, get or patent their intellectual property protection, and you may infringe on someone else's but if you you know, if there's, there's some differences, or have to do that initial research, that's probably the time, if you're serious about, you know, investing or getting business up and going, you've probably engaged an attorney to do a more formal search, where they have the experience in the background and ability to better give a better understanding or determination as to whether or not something presents an issue. Michael Hingson 54:32 Yeah, well, that's understandable. If I've developed something and I have a patent for it, then I suddenly discovered that people are selling knockoffs or other similar devices on places like Amazon and so on. What do you do about that? Because I'm sure there must be a bunch of that that that does go on today. Devin Miller 54:53 Yeah, yes, it does. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as probably as prevalent as some people think. In other words, not every single. Product, right, being knocked off. Not everything is copied. Sometimes it's because, you know, either I don't have the ability, I don't have the investment, I don't have the, you know, it's not as big enough marketplace, I don't have the manufacturing, I don't have the connections, or it is simply, am respectful, and I'm not going to go do a discord because I'm not going to try and rip off, you know, what I think is someone else's idea. So it doesn't happen that as frequently as I think sometimes people think it does, but it certainly does occur. You know, there's a competitive marketplace, there's a profit incentive, and if there's a good product that's out there that people think they can do something with, and there's a motivation to do it, either because people are unaware that it's an issue, or that they they're unaware that they can't copy it or is protected. And so if you get into that, you know, there's a few potentially different recourses. One is, you know, a lot of times you'll start out with the cease and desist.
OpenAI's GPT-5.2 model has started citing Grokipedia, Elon Musk's AI-generated encyclopedia, in its responses. The Guardian found ChatGPT referencing the platform nine times across tests, including queries about Iranian politics and a Holocaust denial expert whose own entry contained false information. With 5.6 million articles and no human editors, Grokipedia has been flagged for promoting extremist content and debunked claims. Now that content is flowing into the world's most popular chatbot.
Les prises de parole tech à Davos notamment sur l’intelligence artificielle (for sure), les affrontements des artistes à la Comic Con, l’acquisition de TikTok US par les états-uniens, et l’arrivée de l’IA dans les entreprises avec leurs effets (ou pas). Me soutenir sur Patreon Me retrouver sur YouTube On discute ensemble sur Discord Slippery Slop Pas comique Con : les artistes sur la brèche. Neurips et flop du slop. De la Propagande IA à la maison blanche ? Meme pas cap ! TikTok is American. Finally free from evil, right ? Right ??? Sam plait pas : Claude Code pour Microsoft. Raymond Davos Satya en mode VRP et Dario argenté haut, des IA pour rester entre blancs. Agent comptant : GPT ou un stagiaire de 4eme ? IA en entreprise, la matrice de la confusion. Netflix fait tapis pour la Warner. Machine Head Avoir des robots et des grosses usines, Shahed bien. Artemis II, le retour. Jeff veut un internet à deux vitesses… littéralement. Femme Siri à moitié dans ton lit. Le Chromebook est un happy meal comme les autres. RéinTegration : NVIDIA revient dans les PC. Bravia heart : Sony et TCL font la paix. Jeux vidéo Beyond good and civil : Ubisoft, une réorganisation qui passe mal. Des bagnoles, des cerisiers, des voix off et des potiers, c'était le Developer Direct ! Participants Une émission préparée par Guillaume Poggiaspalla Présenté par Guillaume Vendé
Keith challenges the usual "overpopulated vs. underpopulated" debate and shows why that's the wrong way to think about demographics—especially if you're a real estate investor. Listeners will hear about surprising global population comparisons that flip common assumptions. Why raw population numbers don't actually explain housing shortages or rent strength. How household formation, aging, and migration really drive demand for rentals. Which kinds of markets tend to see persistent housing pressure—and why the US has a long‑term demographic edge. You'll come away seeing population headlines very differently, and with a clearer lens for spotting where future housing demand is most likely to show up. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/590 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text 1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review" For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold 0:01 Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? Also is the United States over or underpopulated? These are not just rhetorical questions, because I'm going to answer them both. Just one of Africa's 54 nations has more births than all of Europe and Russia combined. One US state has seen their population decline for decades. This is all central to housing demand today. On get rich education Keith Weinhold 0:36 since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com Speaker 1 1:21 You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Keith Weinhold 1:31 Welcome to GRE from Norfolk Virginia to Norfolk, Nebraska and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside. Get rich education. I am the GRE founder, Best Selling Author, longtime real estate investor. You can see my written work in Forbes and the USA Today, but I'm best known as the host of this incomprehensibly slack John operation that you're listening to right now. My name is Keith Weinhold. You probably know that already, one reason that we're talking about underpopulated versus overpopulated today is that also one of my degrees is in geography and demography, essentially, is human geography, and that's why this topic is in my wheelhouse. It's just a humble bachelor's degree, by the way, if a population is not staying stable or growing, then demand for housing just must atrophy away. That's what people think, but that is not true. That's oversimplified. In some cases. It might even be totally false. You're going to see why. Now, Earth's population is at an all time high of about 8.2 billion people, and it keeps growing, and it's going to continue to keep growing, but the rate of growth is slowing now. Where could all of the people on earth fit? This is just a bit of a ridiculous abstraction in a sense, but I think it helps you visualize things. Just take this scenario, if all the humans were packed together tightly, but in a somewhat realistic way, in a standing room only way, if every person on earth stood shoulder to shoulder, that would allow about 2.7 square feet per person, they would sort of be packed like a subway car. Well, they could fit in a square, about 27 kilometers on one side, about 17 miles on each side of that square. Now, what does that mean in real places that is smaller than New York City, about half the size of Los Angeles County and roughly the footprint of Lake Tahoe? So yes, every human alive today could physically fit inside one midsize us metro area. This alone tells you something important. The world's problem is certainly not a lack of space. Rather, it's where people live and not how many there are. So that was all of Earth's inhabitants. Now, where could all Americans fit us residents using the same shoulder to shoulder assumption, and the US population by mid year this year is supposed to be about 350,000,00349 that's a square about five and a half kilometers, or 3.4 miles on each side. And some real world comparisons there are. That's about half of Manhattan, smaller than San Francisco and roughly the size of Disney World, so every American could fit into a single small city footprint. And if you're beginning to form an early clue that we are not overpopulated globally, yes, that's the sense that you Should be getting. Keith Weinhold 5:01 now, if you're in Bangladesh, it feels overpopulated there. They've got 175 million people, and that nation is only the size of Iowa. In area, Bangladesh is low lying and typhoon prone. They get a lot of flooding, which complicates their already bad sanitation problems and a dense population like that, and that creates waterborne diseases, and it's really more of an infrastructure problem in a place like Bangladesh than it is a population problem. Then Oppositely, you've got Australia as much land as the 48 contiguous states, yet just 27 million people in Australia, and only 1/400 as many people as Bangladesh in density. Now we talk about differential population. About 80% of Americans live in the eastern half of the US. But yet, the East is not overpopulated because we have sufficient infrastructure, and I've got some more mind blowing population stats for you later, both world and us. Now, as far as is the world overpopulated or underpopulated, which is our central question, depending on who you ask and where they live, you're going to hear completely different answers. Some people are convinced that the planet is bursting at the seams. Others warn that we're headed for a population collapse. But here's the problem, that question overpopulated or underpopulated, it's the wrong question. It's the wrong framing, especially if you're into real estate, because housing demand doesn't respond to total headcount or global averages or scary demographic headlines. Housing demand responds to where people live, how old they are, and how they form households. And once you understand this, a lot of things suddenly begin to make sense, like why housing shortages persist, why rents stay high, even when affordability feels stretched, why some states struggle while others boom, and why population headlines often mislead investors. Keith Weinhold 7:20 So today I want to reframe how you think about population and connect it directly to housing demand, both globally and right here in the United States. And let's start with the US, because that's probably where you invest. Keith Weinhold 7:33 Here's a simple fact that should confuse people, but usually doesn't, the United States has below replacement fertility. I'll talk about fertility rates a little later. They're similar to birth rates, meaning that Americans are not having enough children to replace the population naturally and without immigration, the US population would eventually shrink, and yet in the US, we have a housing shortage, rising rents, tight vacancy and a lot of metros and persistent demand for rental housing, which could all seem contradictory. Now, if population alone determine housing demand, well, then the US really shouldn't have any housing shortage at all, but it does so clearly, population alone is not the main driver, and really that contradiction is like your first clue that most demographic conversations are just missing the point. Aging does not reduce housing demand. The way that people think a misconception really is that an aging population automatically reduces housing demand. It does not, in fact, just the opposite. If a population is too young, well, that tends to kill housing demand, and that's because five year old kids and 10 year old kids do not form their own household. Instead, what an aging population often does is change the type of housing that's demanded, like seniors aging in place, some of them downsizing. Seniors living alone. Sometimes after a spouse passes away, others relocating closer to health care or to family. So aging can increase unit demand even if population growth slows. So already, we've broken two myths here. Slower population doesn't mean weaker housing demand, and aging doesn't mean fewer housing units are needed. Now let's explain why. Really, the core idea that unlocks everything is that people don't live inside, what are called Population units. They live in households. You are one person. That does not mean that your dwelling is then one population unit. That's not how that works. You are part of a household, whether that's a house a Household of one person or five or 11 people, housing demand is driven by the number of households, the type of households and where those households are forming, not by raw population totals. So the same population can have wildly different demand. Just think about how five people living together in one home, that's one housing unit, those same five people living separately, that is five housing units, same population, five times the housing demand. And this is why population statistics alone are almost useless for real estate investors, you need to know how people are living, not just how many there are. The biggest surge in housing demand happens when people leave their parents' homes or when they finish school or when they start working, or you got big surges in housing demand when people marry or when they separate or divorce. So in other words, adults create housing demand and children don't. And this is why a country with a youngish, working age population, oh, then they can have exploding housing demand. A country with high birth rates, but low household formation can have overcrowding without profitable housing growth. So it's not about babies, it's about independent adults, and what quietly boosts housing demand, then is housing fragmentation. Yeah, fragmentation. That's a trend that really doesn't get enough attention, and that is the trend, households are fragmenting, meaning more single adults later marriage, like I was talking about in a previous episode. Recently, higher divorce rates, more people living alone and older adults living independently, longer. Each one of those trends increases housing demand without adding any population whatsoever. When two people split up, they often need two housing units instead of one, and if you've got one adult living alone, that is full unit demand right there. So that's why housing demand can rise even when population growth slows or stalls for housing demand. What matters more than births is migration. And another key distinction is that, yes, births matter, but they're on somewhat of this 20 year delay and migration matters immediately, right now. So see, when a working age adult moves, they need housing right away. They typically rent first. They cluster near jobs, and they don't bring housing supply along with them. They've got to get it from someone else. Hopefully you in your rental unit. Keith Weinhold 12:57 This is why migration is such a powerful force in rental markets, and you see me talk about migration on the show, and you see me send you migration maps in our newsletter. It's also why housing pressure shows up unevenly. It gets concentrated around opportunity. If you want to know the future, look at renters. Renters are the leading indicator, not homeowners and not birth rates. See renters create housing demand faster than homeowners, because renters form households earlier. They can do it quickly because they don't need down payments. Renters move more frequently and immigration overwhelmingly starts in rentals, fresh immigrants rarely become homeowners, so even when mortgage rates rise or home purchases slow or affordability headlines get scary, rental demand can stay strong. It's not a mystery, it's demographics. So births surely matter, but only over the long term. It's like how I've shared with you in a previous episode that the US had a lot of births between 1990 and 2010 those two decades, a surge of births more than 4 million every single one of those years during those two decades, with that peak birth year at 2007 but see a bunch of babies being born in 2007 Well, that didn't make housing demand surge, since infants don't buy homes. But if you add, say, 20 years to 2007 when those people start renting, oh, well, that rental demand peaks in 2027 or maybe a little after that, and since the first time, homebuyer age is now 40. If that stays constant, well, then native born homebuyer demand won't peak until 2047 so when it comes to housing demand, the important thing to remember is migration has an immediate effect and births have a delayed effect. Keith Weinhold 15:02 and I'm going to talk more about other nations shortly, but the US has two major migration forces working simultaneously, domestic and international migration. I mean, Americans move a lot, although not as much as they used to, and people move for jobs, for taxes, for weather, for cost of living and for lifestyle. So this creates state level winners and losers, and Metro level housing pressure and rent growth in those destination markets and national population averages totally hide this. So that's domestic migration. And then on the international migration. The US has a long history, hundreds of years now on, just continually attracting working age adults from around the world. This matters immensely, because they arrive ready to work, and they form households quickly. They overwhelmingly rent first. They concentrate in metros, and this props up rental demand before it ever shows up in home prices. And this is why investors often feel the rent pressure first those rising rents. Keith Weinhold 16:17 I've got more straight ahead, including Nigeria versus Europe, and what about the overpopulation straining the environment? If you like, episodes that explain why housing behaves the way it does, rather than just reacting to the headlines. You'll want to be on my free weekly newsletter. I break down demographics, housing, demand, inflation, investor trends and real estate strategy in plain English, often complemented with maps. You can join free at greletter.com that's gre letter.com Keith Weinhold 16:53 mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com Keith Weinhold 17:54 you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989Yep. Text their freedom coach directly again. 1937795, 1-937-795-8989, Keith Weinhold 19:05 the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com Chris Martenson 19:37 this is peak prosperity. Is Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Keith Weinhold 19:53 Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is episode 590 yes, we're in my Geography wheelhouse today, as I'm talking human geography and demographics with how it relates to housing, while answering our central question today is the world and the US overpopulated or underpopulated? And now that we understand some mechanics here, let's go global. Here's one of the most mind bending stats in all of demographics. Are you ready for this? When you hear this, it's going to have you hitting up chat, GPT, looking it up. It's going to be so astonishing. So jaw dropping. Every year, Nigeria has more births than all of Europe plus all of Russia combined. Would you talk about Willis? Keith Weinhold 20:47 Yeah, yes, you heard that, right? Willis, that's what I'm talking about. Willis. The source of that data is, in fact, from the United Nations. Yes, Nigeria has seven and a half million births every year. Compare that to all of Europe plus Russia combined, they only have about 6.3 million births per year. So you're telling me that today, just one West African nation, and there are 54 nations in Africa. Just one West African nation produces more babies than the entire continent of Europe, with all of its nations plus all of Russia, the largest world nation by area. Yes, that is correct. One country in Africa produces more babies every year than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, all of Europe, including all the Eastern European nations, and all of Russia combined. This is a demographic reality, and now you probably already know that less developed nations, like Nigeria have higher birth rates than wealthier, more developed ones like France or Switzerland. I mean, that's almost common knowledge, but something that people think about less is that poorer nations also have a larger household size, which sort of makes sense when you think about it. In fact, Nigeria has five persons per household. Spain has two and a half, and the US also has that same level two and a half. That one difference alone explains why population growth and housing demand are completely different stories now, the US had 3.3 people per household in 1950 and it's down to that two and a half today. That means that even if the population stayed the same, the housing demand would rise. And this is evidence of what I talked about before the break, that households are fragmenting within the US. You can probably guess which state has the largest household size due to their Mormon population. It's Utah at 3.1 the smallest is Maine at 2.3 they have an older population. In fact, Maine has America's oldest population. And as you can infer with what you've learned now, the fact that they have just 2.3 people per household means that if their populations were the same. Maine would need more housing units than Utah. By the way, if you're listening closely at times, I have referred to the United States as simply America. Yes, I am American. You are going to run into some people out there that don't like it. When US residents call themselves Americans, they say something like, Hey, you need a geography lesson. America runs from Nunavut all the way down to Argentina. Here's what to tell them. No, look, there are about 200 world nations. There is only one that has the word America in it, that is the United States of America that usually makes them lighten up. That is why I am an American, not a Peruvian or Bolivian, and there's no xenophobic connotation whatsoever. There are more productive things to think about moving on. Why births matter is because births today become future workers, renters, consumers and even migrants. But not evenly. Young populations move toward a few things. They're attracted to capital. They move towards stability. They're attracted to opportunity, and young populations move toward infrastructure. That's not ideology, that's the gravity and the US remains one of the strongest gravity wells on Earth, a big magnet, a big attractant. Now it's sort of interesting. I know a few a People that believe that the world is indeed overpopulated, they often tend to be environmental enthusiasts, and the environment is a concern, for sure, but how big of a concern is it? That's the debatable part. And you know, it's funny, I've run into the same people that think that the world is overpopulated, they seem to lament at school closures. You see more school closures because just there weren't as many children that were born after the global financial crisis. And these people that are afraid we have an overpopulation problem call school closures a sad phenomenon. They think it's sad. Well, if you want a shrinking population, then you're going to see a lot more than just schools close so many with environmental concerns, though. The thing is, is that they seem to discount the fact that humans innovate. More than 200 years ago, Thomas Malthus, he famously failed. He wrote a book, thinking that the global population would exceed what he called his carrying capacity, meaning that we wouldn't be able to feed everybody. He posited that, look, this is a problem. Populations grow exponentially, but food production only grows linearly. But he was wrong, because, due to agricultural innovation, we have got too many calories in most places. Few people thought this many humans could live in the United States, Sonoran and Mojave deserts, that's Phoenix in Las Vegas, respectively. But our ability to recycle and purify water allows millions of people to live there. So my point about running out of resources is that history shows us that humans are a resource ourselves, and we keep finding ways to innovate, or keep finding ways to actually not need that rare earth element or whatever it is now, if the earth warms too much from human related activity, can we cool it off again? And how much of a problem is this? I am not sure, and that goes beyond the scope of our show. But the broader point here is that history shows us that humans keep figuring things out, and that is somewhat of an answer to those questions. The world is not overpopulated, it is unevenly populated. Some regions are young, others are growing, others are capital constrained, and then other regions are aging, shrinking and capital rich. And that very imbalance right there is what fuels migration and fuels labor flows and fuels housing demand in destination countries and the US benefits from this imbalance. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, it's a demographic magnet. Yes, you do have some smaller ones out there, like Dubai, for example. Keith Weinhold 28:04 But why? Why do we keep attracting immigrants? Well, we've got strong labor markets, capital availability, property rights, economic mobility, and US has existing housing stock. Countries today don't just compete for capital, they're competing for people. In the US keeps attracting working age adults, and that is exactly the demographic that creates housing demand, and this is why long term housing demand in the US is more resilient than a lot of people think. In fact, the US population of about 350 million. This year, it's projected to peak at about 370 million, near 2080 and of course, the big factor that makes that pivot is that level of immigration. So that's why the population projections vary now. The last presidential administration allowed for a lot of immigrants. The current one few immigrants, and the next one, nobody knows. You've got a group called the falconist party that calls for increased legal immigration into the US. Yeah, they want to allow more migrants into the country, but yet they want to enforce illegal immigration. That sounds just like it's spelled, F, A, L, C, O, N, i, s, t, the falconist Party, but the us's magnetic effect to keep driving population growth through immigration is key, because you might already know that 2.1 is the magic number you need a fertility rate of at least 2.1 to maintain a population fertility rate that is the average number of children that a woman is expected to have over her lifetime. And be sure you don't confuse these numbers with the earlier numbers of people per. Per household, like I discussed earlier, although higher fertility rates are usually going to lead to more people per household, India's fertility rate is already down to 2.0 Yes, it is the most populated nation in the world, but since women, on average, only have two children, India is already below replacement fertility. The US and Australia are each at 1.6 Japan is just 1.2 China's is down to 1.0 South Korea's is at an incredibly low seven tenths of one, so 0.7 in South Korea, and then Nigeria's is still more than four. So among all those that I mentioned, only Nigeria is above the replacement rate of 2.1 and most of the nations above that rate are in Africa. Israel is a big outlier at 2.9 you've got others in the Middle East and South Asia that are above replacement rate as well. And when I say things like it's still up there, that whole still thing refers to the fact that there is this tendency worldwide for society to urbanize and have fewer children. For those fertility rates to keep falling. And that's why the future population growth is about which nations attract immigrants, and that is the US. Is huge advantage. Now there's a great way to look at where future births are going to come from. A way to do this is consider your chance of being born on each continent in the year 2100 This is interesting. In the year 2100 a person has a 48% chance of being born in Africa, 38% in South Asia, in the Middle East, 5% South America, 5% in Europe or Russia, 4% in North America, and less than 1% in Australia. Those are the chances of you being born on each of those continents in the year 2100 and that sourced by the UN. Keith Weinhold 32:09 the world population is, as I said earlier, about 8.2 billion, and it's actually expected to peak around the same time that the US population is in the 2080s and that'll be near 10 point 3 billion. All right, so both the world and the US population should rise for another 50 to 60 years. Let's talk about population winners and losers inside the US. I mean, this is where population conversations really become useful for investors, because population doesn't matter nationally that much. It really matters locally, unevenly and sometimes it almost feels unfairly. So let me give you some perspective shifting stats. I think I shared with you when I discussed new New York City Mayor Zoran Manami here on the show a month or two ago, that the New York City Metro Area has over 20 million people, nearly double the combined population of Arizona and Nevada together, yes, just one metro area, the same as Two entire sparsely populated states. So when someone says people are leaving New York I mean that tells you almost nothing, unless you know where they're going. How many are still arriving in New York City to replace those leaving, and how many households are still forming inside that Metro? The household formation so scale matters, however, net, people are not leaving New York. New York City recently had more in migration than any other US Metro. Some states are practically empty. Alaska or take Wyoming. Wyoming has fewer than 600,000 people in the entire state. That's fewer people than a lot of single US cities. That's only about six people per square mile. In Wyoming, that's about the population of one midsize Metro suburb. Now, when someone says the US has plenty of land in a lot of cases, they're right. I mean, just look out the window when you fly over Wyoming or the Dakotas. But people don't really live where land is cheap. They actually don't want to. Most of the time. They live where jobs, incomes and their networks already exist. You know, the wealthy guy that retires to Wyoming and it has a 200 acre ranch is an outlier. There's a reason he can sprawl out and make it 200 acres. There's virtually nobody there. Let's understand too that population loss, that doesn't mean that demand is gone, but it does change the rules, especially when you think about a place like West Virginia. They have lost population in most decades since the 1950s and incredibly, their population is lower today than it was in 1930 we're talking about West Virginia statewide. They have an aging population. West Virginia has an outmigration of young adults. So this doesn't mean that no real estate works in West Virginia, but it means that appreciation stories are fragile. Income matters more than equity. Growth and demographics are a headwind, not a tailwind. That's a very different investment posture than where you usually want to be. It's important to understand that a handful of metros, just a handful, are absorbing massive national growth. And here's something that a lot of investors underestimate. About half of all US, population growth flows into fewer than 15 metro areas, and it's not just New York City, Houston, Miami, but smaller places like Jacksonville, Austin and Raleigh, and that really helps pump their real estate market. So that means demand concentrates, housing pressure intensifies, and rent growth becomes pretty sticky, unless you wildly overbuild for a short period of time like Austin did, and this is why some metros just feel perpetually tight over the long term, and others feel permanently sluggish. Population does not spread evenly. It piles up. In fact, Texas is a great case in point here. Understand that Texas is adding people faster than some entire nations do. Texas alone adds hundreds of 1000s of residents per year in strong cycles. Some years, they do add more people than entire small countries, more than several Midwest states combined. And of course, they don't spread evenly across Texas. They cluster in DFW, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, so pretty much the Texas triangle, and that clustering fact is everything for housing demand, yet at the same time, there are fully 75 Texas counties that are losing population, typically out in West Texas. Then there's Florida. Florida isn't just growing. It's replacing people. Florida's growth. It's not just net positive, it's replacement migration, and it's across all different types and ages. You've got retirees arriving, you've got young workers arriving, you've got young households forming, and you've got seniors aging in place. So this way, among a whole spectrum of ages, you've got demand for rentals, workforce housing, age specific, housing and multifamily all in Florida, and this is why Florida housing demand over the long term is not going to cool off the way that a few skeptics expect. Now, of course, some areas did temporarily overbuild in Florida in the years following the pandemic. Yes, that's led to some temporary Florida home price attrition, but that is going to be absorbed. California did not empty out. It reshuffled now. There were some recent years where California lost net population, but here's what that hides. Some metros lost residents. Others stayed flat. You had some income brackets that left California and others arrived. In fact, California has slight population growth today overall, so housing demand definitely did not vanish. It shifted within the state and then outward to nearby states, and that's how Arizona, Nevada and Texas benefited. But overall, California's population count, really, it's just pretty steady, not declining. Keith Weinhold 39:05 population density. It's that density that predicts rent pressure better than growth rates. Do something really important for real estate investors. Dense metros absorb shocks better. They have less elastic housing supply, and they see faster rent rebounds. Sparse areas have cheaper land and easier supply expansion and weaker rent resilience. So that's why rents snap back faster in dense metros, and oversupply hurts more in spread out to regions. Density matters more than raw growth does. Shrinking states can still have tight housing I mean, some states lose population overall, but yet they still have housing shortages in certain metros, and you'll have tight rental markets near job centers, and you've got strong demand In limited sub markets, even if the state is shrinking. And I think you know this is why the slower growing Northeast and Midwest, they've had the highest home price appreciation in the past two years. There's not enough building there. If your population falls 1% but the available housing falls 2% well, you can totally get into a housing shortage situation, and that bids up real estate prices. And when people look at population charts on the state level, a lot of times, they still get misled. When you buy an investment property, you don't buy a state, you buy a specific market within it, so the United States is not full it is lopsided. The US is not overpopulated. It is heavily clustered. It's unevenly dense, and it's really driven by migration. And perhaps a better way to say it is that the US population is really opportunity concentrated housing demand follows jobs, networks, wages and migration flows. It sure does not follow empty land. And really the investor takeaway is, is that when you hear population stats, don't put too much weight on the question, is the population rising or falling? Although that's something you certainly want to know. Some better questions to ask are, where are households forming? Where are adults moving? Where is supply constrained? And where does income support, rent like those are, what four big questions there, because population alone does not create housing demand. It's households under constraint that do so. Our big arching overall question is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? The answer is neither. The world is unevenly populated. It's unevenly aged, and it's unevenly governed. And for real estate investors, the lesson is simple. You don't invest in population counts, you invest in household formation, age structure, migration and supply constraints. Really, that's a big learning summary for you, that's why housing demand can stay strong even when population growth slows. And once you understand that demographic headlines that seem scary aren't as scary, and they start to be more useful. Why I've wanted to do this overpopulated versus underpopulated episode for you for years. I've really thought about it for years. I really hope that you got something useful out of it. Let's be mindful of the context too. When it comes to the classic Adam Smith economics of supply demand, I've only discussed one side today, largely just the demand side and not the supply side so much that would involve a discussion about building and some more things that supply side. Now that I've helped you ask a better question about population and the future of housing demand, you might wonder where you can get better answers. Well, like I mentioned earlier, I provide a lot of that and help you make sense of it, both right here on this show and with my newsletter, geography is something that's more conducive and meaningful to you visually, that's often done with a map, and that's why my letter at greletter.com will help you more if you enjoy learning through maps, just like we've done every year since 2014 I've got 52 great episodes coming to you this year. If you haven't consider subscribing to the show until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream. Speaker 2 43:57 Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you Keith Weinhold 44:25 The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com
En la Tertulia Zona Cero Mado Martínez, Juanjo Sánchez-Oro y Álvaro Anula comentan como los hongos podrían ser los nuevos conductores de electricidad en las computadoras del futuro; qué ocurriría si el espacio diera la posibilidad de viajar en el tiempo; qué han encontrado en la llamada ciudad de los Gigantes de Etiopía. Por qué la IA más inteligente, como el chat GPT-40 o GPT-41 está respondiendo de forma maliciosa. Cómo fue la aparición Mariana vista por dos niños en Ruanda. Y para terminar varias noticias curiosas protagonizadas por animales: vaca, ratas y abejas.
-OpenAI may have called GPT-5.2 its "most advanced frontier model for professional work," but tests conducted by the Guardian cast doubt on its credibility. According to the report, OpenAI's GPT-5.2 model cited Grokipedia, the online encyclopedia powered by xAI, when it came to specific, but controversial topics related to Iran or the Holocaust. -According to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, Apple wants to announce a new Siri in "the second half of February" that will show off the results of its recently announced partnership with Google and offer demonstrations of the Gemini-powered capabilities. -Before Electronic Arts goes private in a groundbreaking sale, some US lawmakers are pleading for some federal oversight. Democratic members of the US Congress, as part of the Congressional Labor Caucus, penned a letter asking the Federal Trade Commission to "thoroughly review" the $55 billion acquisition of EA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This week is the last of our Best of 2025 series and in this episode podcast, Rachel and Lynne discuss the impact of AI on freelance writing and marketing with guest Steven Lewis. Steven, a seasoned journalist and copywriter, offers a deep dive into using AI, specifically custom GPTs, to streamline marketing tasks for freelancers. He explains: • the practical steps to creating a custom GPT • how it can maintain consistent client communication • how it can give feedback on your copy to ensure it is on-brand • how it can help freelancers focus on high-value creative tasks • the ethical considerations of AI use and the importance of human connection in an increasingly automated world Connect with Steven on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlewissydney/ The link to the course he talks about is: https://aicmocourse.com And listeners can get a 10% discount using the coupon code CONTENTBYTE25 Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au Rachel's List www.rachelslist.com.au Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel's List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details. Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co
With the Ralph loop going mainstream, how are engineering organizations utilizing it at scale? Andrew and Ben sit down with Angie Jones, VP of Engineering AI Tools and Enablement at Block, to pick her brain on how they are using the Ralph Wiggum technique to automate updates across 25,000 repos and how she is strategically preparing for Gas Town. The team also breaks down the launch of OpenAI's new GPT-5.2 Codex model before closing out the week with a look at the weirdest tech from CES, from hypersonic knives to music-playing lollipops.LinearB: Measure the impact of GitHub Copilot and CursorFollow the show:Subscribe to our Substack Follow us on LinkedInSubscribe to our YouTube ChannelLeave us a ReviewFollow the hosts:Follow AndrewFollow BenFollow DanFollow today's stories:Angie Jones: angiejones.tech | LinkedIn | X (Twitter)Goose (Block's AI Agent): github.com/block/gooseSteve Yegge's "Welcome to Gas Town": Read on MediumGeoffrey Huntley's Ralph Loop: ghuntley.com/ralphRyan Dahl on the End of Coding: @rough__seaThe Weirdest Tech of CES: Read the ArticleOFFERS Start Free Trial: Get started with LinearB's AI productivity platform for free. Book a Demo: Learn how you can ship faster, improve DevEx, and lead with confidence in the AI era. LEARN ABOUT LINEARB AI Code Reviews: Automate reviews to catch bugs, security risks, and performance issues before they hit production. AI & Productivity Insights: Go beyond DORA with AI-powered recommendations and dashboards to measure and improve performance. AI-Powered Workflow Automations: Use AI-generated PR descriptions, smart routing, and other automations to reduce developer toil. MCP Server: Interact with your engineering data using natural language to build custom reports and get answers on the fly.
In this week's episode of the Rich Habits Podcast, Robert Croak and Austin Hankwitz answer your questions!---
In this episode of Reboot IT, host Dave Coriale sits down with Colleen Gallagher, President & CEO of Onward and Upward, to talk about how associations are using AI as more than just a tool—they're treating it like a thought partner. Colleen shares real-world examples of AI helping with PR strategy, repurposing research, and freeing up time for small-staff associations. They also dig into why authenticity matters, how to set guardrails, and what it takes to make AI work without losing your human touch.Themes and Topics:AI in PR, Communications, and ResearchA national IT and workforce association used a custom GPT trained on PR strategy to brainstorm ideas and create strategic plans.AI helped identify targeted journalists and outlets for a research report, saving days of manual research and landing coverage that previously seemed impossible.AI transformed 100-page technical reports into member-friendly summaries, increasing engagement without replacing original research.Small Associations Leveraging AIA small-staff association implemented an AI policy early, focusing on transparency and data protection.Weekly meetings encouraged staff to share AI use cases, leading to automation of job aids, survey analysis, and content repurposing.Efficiency vs. AuthenticityAI accelerates workflows, but human editing and fact-checking remain essential, especially in technical fields.Associations intentionally keep a “human roughness” in writing to avoid robotic tone and maintain authenticity.Disclosure and TransparencyBest practice: note when AI supports content creation (e.g., “This article was assisted by AI and edited by a human”).Transparency builds trust, even if disclosure norms evolve over time.Infrastructure and SecurityBefore implementing tools like Copilot, associations must secure their infrastructure and protect intellectual property.Data fencing and cybersecurity measures prevent unintended exposure of sensitive information.AI as Amplification, Not ReplacementAI should enhance human creativity and capacity, not erase it.The real win is amplification—doing more with the same resources while maintaining trust and authenticity.
Episode 144Happy New Year! This is one of my favorite episodes of the year — for the fourth time, Nathan Benaich and I did our yearly roundup of AI news and advancements, including selections from this year's State of AI Report.If you've stuck around and continue to listen, I'm really thankful you're here. I love hearing from you.You can find Nathan and Air Street Press here on Substack and on Twitter, LinkedIn, and his personal site. Check out his writing at press.airstreet.com.Find me on Twitter (or LinkedIn if you want…) for updates on new episodes, and reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions.Outline* (00:00) Intro* (00:44) Air Street Capital and Nathan world* Nathan's path from cancer research and bioinformatics to AI investing* The “evergreen thesis” of AI from niche to ubiquitous* Portfolio highlights: Eleven Labs, Synthesia, Crusoe* (03:44) Geographic flexibility: Europe vs. the US* Why SF isn't always the best place for original decisions* Industry diversity in New York vs. San Francisco* The Munich Security Conference and Europe's defense pivot* Playing macro games from a European vantage point* (07:55) VC investment styles and the “solo GP” approach* Taste as the determinant of investments* SF as a momentum game with small information asymmetry* Portfolio diversity: defense (Delian), embodied AI (Syriact), protein engineering* Finding entrepreneurs who “can't do anything else”* (10:44) State of AI progress in 2025* Momentous progress in writing, research, computer use, image, and video* We're in the “instruction manual” phase* The scale of investment: private markets, public markets, and nation states* (13:21) Range of outcomes and what “going bad” looks like* Today's systems are genuinely useful—worst case is a valuation problem* Financialization of AI buildouts and GPUs* (14:55) DeepSeek and China closing the capability gap* Seven-month lag analysis (Epoch AI)* Benchmark skepticism and consumer preferences (”Coca-Cola vs. Pepsi”)* Hedonic adaptation: humans reset expectations extremely quickly* Bifurcation of model companies toward specific product bets* (18:29) Export controls and the “evolutionary pressure” argument* Selective pressure breeds innovation* Chinese companies rushing to public markets (Minimax, ZAI)* (21:30) Reasoning models and test-time compute* Chain of thought faithfulness questions* Monitorability tax: does observability reduce quality?* User confusion about when models should “think”* AI for science: literature agents, hypothesis generation* (23:53) Chain of thought interpretability and safety* Anthropomorphization concerns* Alignment faking and self-preservation behaviors* Cybersecurity as a bigger risk than existential risk* Models as payloads injected into critical systems* (27:26) Commercial traction and AI adoption data* Ramp data: 44% of US businesses paying for AI (up from 5% in early 2023)* Average contract values up to $530K from $39K* State of AI survey: 92% report productivity gains* The “slow takeoff” consensus and human inertia* Use cases: meeting notes, content generation, brainstorming, coding, financial analysis* (32:53) The industrial era of AI* Stargate and XAI data centers* Energy infrastructure: gas turbines and grid investment* Labs need to own models, data, compute, and power* Poolside's approach to owning infrastructure* (35:40) Venture capital in the age of massive GPU capex* The GP lives in the present, the entrepreneur in the future, the LP in the past* Generality vs. specialism narratives* “Two or 20”: management fees vs. carried interest* Scaling funds to match entrepreneur ambitions* (40:10) NVIDIA challengers and returns analysis* Chinese challengers: 6x return vs. 26x on NVIDIA* US challengers: 2x return vs. 12x on NVIDIA* Grok acquired for $20B; Samba Nova markdown to $1.6B* “The tide is lifting all boats”—demand exceeds supply* (44:06) The hardware lottery and architecture convergence* Transformer dominance and custom ASICs making a comeback* NVIDIA still 90–95% of published AI research* (45:49) AI regulation: Trump agenda and the EU AI Act* Domain-specific regulators vs. blanket AI policy* State-level experimentation creates stochasticity* EU AI Act: “born before GPT-4, takes effect in a world shaped by GPT-7”* Only three EU member states compliant by late 2025* (50:14) Sovereign AI: what it really means* True sovereignty requires energy, compute, data, talent, chip design, and manufacturing* The US is sovereign; the UK by itself is not* Form alliances or become world-class at one level of the stack* ASML and the Netherlands as an example* (52:33) Open weight safety and containment* Three paths: model-based safeguards, scaffolding/ecosystem, procedural/governance* “Pandora's box is open”—containment on distribution, not weights* Leak risk: the most vulnerable link is often human* Developer–policymaker communication and regulator upskilling* (55:43) China's AI safety approach* Matt Sheehan's work on Chinese AI regulation* Safety summits and China's participation* New Chinese policies: minor modes, mental health intervention, data governance* UK's rebrand from “safety” to “security” institutes* (58:34) Prior predictions and patterns* Hits on regulatory/political areas; misses on semiconductor consolidation, AI video games* (59:43) 2026 Predictions* A Chinese lab overtaking US on frontier (likely ZAI or DeepSeek, on scientific reasoning)* Data center NIMBYism influencing midterm politics* (01:01:01) ClosingLinks and ResourcesNathan / Air Street Capital* Air Street Capital* State of AI Report 2025* Air Street Press — essays, analysis, and the Guide to AI newsletter* Nathan on Substack* Nathan on Twitter/X* Nathan on LinkedInFrom Air Street Press (mentioned in episode)* Is the EU AI Act Actually Useful? — by Max Cutler and Nathan Benaich* China Has No Place at the UK AI Safety Summit (2023) — by Alex Chalmers and Nathan BenaichResearch & Analysis* Epoch AI: Chinese AI Models Lag US by 7 Months — the analysis referenced on the US-China capability gap* Sara Hooker: The Hardware Lottery — the essay on how hardware determines which research ideas succeed* Matt Sheehan: China's AI Regulations and How They Get Made — Carnegie EndowmentCompanies Mentioned* Eleven Labs — AI voice synthesis (Air Street portfolio)* Synthesia — AI video generation (Air Street portfolio)* Crusoe — clean compute infrastructure (Air Street portfolio)* Poolside — AI for code (Air Street portfolio)* DeepSeek — Chinese AI lab* Minimax — Chinese AI company* ASML — semiconductor equipmentOther Resources* Search Engine Podcast: Data Centers (Part 1 & 2) — PJ Vogt's two-part series on XAI data centers and the AI financing boom* RAAIS Foundation — Nathan's AI research and education charity Get full access to The Gradient at thegradientpub.substack.com/subscribe
In the first hour Jeff talks about the Mayor using chat GPT and then chats with Barry Moore.
So the Mayor uses chat GPT for speeches... does anyone really care?
This episode is sponsored by Your360 AI. Get 10% off through January 2026 at Your360.ai with code: INSIDE. Join Jason Howell and Alfred Nutile as we break down Anthropic's Claude Cowork desktop agent, OpenAI's plan to monetize ChatGPT through ads, YouTube's evolving strategy to curb AI slop, Alfred's day-to-day building AI automations for clients, and rapid fire updates on AI water debates, Lego's AI learning kits, and Wikipedia's big training data partnerships. Note: Time codes subject to change depending on dynamic ad insertion by the distributor. 00:00:00 - Podcast begins 0:03:29 - Cowork: Claude Code for the rest of your work 0:07:36 - Anthropic's new Cowork tool offers Claude Code without the code 0:12:20 - Our approach to advertising and expanding access to ChatGPT 0:12:44 - ChatGPT Go now unlocks unlimited access to GPT-5.2 Instant for $8 0:13:03 - OpenAI Lines Up Advertisers, Reveals Key Details Ahead of Ads Launch 0:14:21 - Google's AI boss: No plans for ads in Gemini 0:19:12 - YouTube CEO Neal Mohan's Big Ideas for 2026: More Superstar Creators and Transparency, Less AI Slop 0:24:08 - YouTubers will be able to make Shorts with their own AI likenesses 0:26:21 - The rise of ‘micro' apps: non-developers are writing apps instead of buying them 00:28:27 - Opal by Google 0:56:59 - From Tokens to Burgers: A Water Footprint Face-Off 1:00:02 - OpenAI rolls out age prediction on ChatGPT 1:01:36 - Adobe unveils new AI-powered video editing tools for Premiere 1:04:11 - Lego's latest educational kit seeks to teach AI as part of computer science, not to build a chatbot 1:05:36 - Wikipedia signs major AI firms to new priority data access deals Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
The Wealth Formula Podcast is one of the longest-running personal finance podcasts still standing. For more than a decade, I've shown up every single week to talk about investing, markets, and the forces shaping the economy. What's interesting is how much my own thinking has evolved over that time. Early on, I was more rigid. I was—and still am—a real estate guy. But back then, I didn't give much thought to ideas outside that lane. I was dogmatic, and I didn't always challenge my own beliefs. Time has a way of doing that for you. I've now lived through multiple market cycles. I've watched the stock market melt up to valuations that felt absurd—and then keep going. I've seen gold go from flat for a decade to parabolic over a year. I've seen interest rates sit near zero for a decade and then snap higher at the fastest pace in modern history. And I've learned, sometimes the hard way, that diversification is about survival and that every asset class has its day. One lesson I learned that I am thinking a lot about these days is: ignore major technological shifts at your own peril. Back in 2014, I first started hearing people talk seriously about Bitcoin. At the time, I dismissed it. I listened to the critics, was convinced it was a scam, and didn't take the time to truly understand it. That was a mistake—not because everyone should have bought Bitcoin, but because I ignored a structural change happening right in front of me. Bitcoin went from a cypherpunk expression of freedom to the largest ETF owned by BlackRock. Today, the dominant story is artificial intelligence. And whether you love stocks, hate stocks, prefer real estate, or focus exclusively on cash flow, you cannot afford to ignore AI. This isn't a fad. It's a general-purpose technology—on the scale of electricity, the internet, or the industrial revolution itself. That doesn't mean it's easy to invest in. It's hard to look at headline names trading at massive valuations and feel good about buying them today. But investing in AI isn't about chasing a single company. It's about understanding second- and third-order effects: energy demand, data centers, productivity gains, labor displacement, capital flows, and how blockchain and decentralized systems intersect with all of it. What experience has taught me is this: you don't need to be first to invest—but you do need to be early in understanding. If you wait until something feels obvious, most of the opportunity is already gone. This week's episode of the Wealth Formula Podcast is focused squarely on AI and blockchain—what's real, what's noise, and where the long-term implications may lie. Listen to this episode. You'll come away smarter. And years from now, you may look back and realize this was one of those moments where paying attention really mattered. Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Wealth Formula Podcast. Coming to you from Montecito, California. Today we wanna start with a reminder. We are in a new year and we are already doing deals, uh, through the Wealth Formula Accredit Investor Club. You can go and sign up for that for free. Uh, wealth formula.com just hit investor club and you just get on there and, and you’ll get onboarded. And from there, all you gotta do is wait for deal flow and webinars coming to your inbox. And, um, you know, if nothing else, you learn something. So go check it out. Uh, go to. Wealth formula.com and sign up for Investor Club now onto today’s show. Uh, the, it is interesting. I don’t know if you are aware it’s a listener, but we are, wealth Formula is, uh, probably I would say one of the, certainly in the one of the top longest running personal finance podcasts still. Standing. Uh, I’ve been around, well, I think the first episode was on like 2014, so it was a long time, but in earnest, you know, at least for over a decade. And, you know, during that time, I’ve shown up every week, every single week. Don’t Ms. Weeks, but none, none. Isn’t that incredible? I’ve shown up, uh, talked about investing and talked about very way markets are working, forces, shaping the economy, all that kind of stuff. But you know, as you can imagine, as a. As a younger individual versus, um, my crusty self. Now, you know, a lot of my own thinking has evolved over that time, you know, back then. And I, you know, I think this appealed to some people, but, um, you know, I was really dogmatic. I’m a real estate guy, right? And I still am a real estate guy, but back then I wouldn’t give anything else the time of day to even think about, you know, and, and, uh, I, I, you know. I was dogmatic and didn’t always challenge my own belief systems. Um, I’m different now, right? I’ve softened And time is a way of, of changing all of that dogmatic stuff for you. You know, I’ve lived through multiple market cycles. I’ve watched, well, I’ve watched the stock market, which I, which I always maligned, you know, melt up to valuations. Uh, that felt absurd. And then keep going higher. I’ve seen gold, which was kind of ridiculous for the longest time. I watched it for like a decade, just pretty much flat, and then it goes parabolic. Over the last year, I’ve seen interest rates sit near zero for a decade and then snap higher. Uh, not even as time, just launch higher at the fastest space in modern history. And I’ve learned sometimes I guess, the hard way that diversification is about survival and that every class, every asset class has its day. Just like every dog has its day. And um, you know, one other lesson that I learned that I’m thinking a lot about these days is ignore major technological shifts at your own peril. So what am I talking about? Well. It’s kind of a, it is a technological shift, whether you think it about not, but Bitcoin. Okay. Back in 2014, I first started hearing people talk seriously about Bitcoin, and at that time I dismissed it. I was, uh, I was listening to critics beater Schiff that constantly called it a scam, said it was going to zero and so on. I didn’t, I didn’t take the time to truly understand it, to try to understand it the way I understand it now, that makes me a believer in Bitcoin. That, of course was a big mistake, not because, you know, everyone should have bought Bitcoin and, uh, back then, well, they, you know, would’ve been nice if they did, but because fundamentally I ignored something that was a structural change happening right in front of me. And since then, Bitcoin went from a cipher punk expression of freedom to the large CTF owned by BlackRock today. The dominant story is actually artificial intelligence. Now, whether you love stocks, hate stocks, prefer real estate focused exclusively on cab, whatever, you cannot afford to ignore ai. It’s not a fad. It’s a general purpose technology and a technology shift, and the scale of electricity. The internet bigger than the internet, bigger than the industrial revolution. Now, that doesn’t mean it’s easy to invest in. I mean, I’m gonna go invest in AI and make a bunch of money because I mean, what does that even mean? It’s hard to look at headline names, trading at massive valuations like Nvidia and all that right now, and saying, oh, I’m gonna go buy that. Who knows? That’s gonna work out. When I talk about investing in AI isn’t really just investing in stocks or any individual company or data centers or whatever. It’s about understanding. The second and third order effects, energy demand. You know, as I mentioned, data centers, productivity gains, labor displacement, capital flows, and how blockchain and decentralized systems intersect with all of that. It is very, very complicated. Um, but it’s really important to start to try to understand, you know, an experience that stop me is this. You don’t need to be the first to invest, but you do need to be early in understanding. If you wait until something feels obvious, usually the opportunity’s gone by then. And you know, the thing about AI is even if you think it’s obvious now. The reality is that most people haven’t really caught on. Maybe they played with chat GPT, but I don’t think they’re understanding what this whole, you know, this thing is gonna do to our world. Um, anyway, so that is what this week’s episode of Wealth Formula Podcast, uh, is about. It’s about AI and also, um, a little bit about, you know, bitcoin and blockchain and that kind of thing. Um, we’re gonna talk about what’s noise, uh, you know, where the long, what the long-term, uh, implications are all of this stuff. This is a show that, uh, I really enjoy doing really, really good stuff. Um, so make sure you listen in. We’ll have that interview for you right after these messages. Wealth Formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net. The strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying you compound interest. On that money, even though you’ve borrowed it, that result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit Wealth formula banking.com. Again, that’s wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today. My guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Jim Thorne, chief Market strategist at Wellington. L is private wealth with more than 25 years of experience in capital markets. He’s previously served as chief capital market strategist, senior portfolio manager, chief economist, and CIO. Uh, equities at major investment firms and has also taught economics and finance at the university level. Uh, Jim is known for translating complex economic, political, and market dynamics into clear actionable insights to help investors and advisors navigate long-term capital decisions. Uh, Jim, welcome with the program. Thanks for having me Buck. Well, um, Tim, I, I, I, uh, had been following a little bit of, uh, what you discuss on, uh, on X and, um, one of the things that caught my eye is, you know, your, your narrative on, on ai, a lot of people are tend to be still sort of skeptical of AI and what’s going on, uh, with the markets. Um, uh, but at the same time, uh, there’s this. Sense. I think that ignoring AI altogether as an investor is, is, is downright potentially dangerous. So, uh, at the highest level, why is AI something people simply can’t dismiss? Well, we live in an, uh, uh, you know, many other people have coined this term, but we live, we’re living in an exponential age of, of technological innovation. And, you know, AI and I’ll just add into their, uh, blockchain is just the normal evolutionary process that, you know, for me started when I left graduate school and came into the business in the nineties where everybody had this high degree of skepticism of the computer and the, the, the phone, the, the. And the internet. And so, you know, what we do is we go through these cycles and there are periods of time where the stars align. And we have a period of time where we have what I would call an intense period of innovation where I would suggest to you that. People are skeptical. Skeptical, and yet at the same point in time, they very early on in the, in the, in the trade, call it a bubble when it’s not. And so I think it comes from the position of ignorance. One, I think two, fear, and then three. If you think about if you are an active manager, I in a 40 ACT fund, um, you know, and you’re sitting there with, uh, you know, mi. Uh, Nvidia at, you know, eight or 9% of your index. And that’s a big chunk that you’ve gotta put into your fund, uh, just to be market neutral. So there’s a lot of people that hate this rally. There’s a lot of people that are can, going to continue to hate this rally. But the thing I anchor my hat on are a couple of things. Look at if this is no different than the railroad. Canals, any major technological innovation, will it become a bubble? Yes. Just not now. So, so let’s follow up on that, because a lot of people think, or are talking about the, do you know the.com bubble, uh, comparisons, and you’ve argued that that sort of misses the real story. So, so where are we getting it wrong right now? Are those people getting it wrong? In the nineties buck, you’d walk into a bar and there wouldn’t be ESPN on there’d be CNBC on people were getting their jobs to become day traders. Folks didn’t go to the go to university because they were basically getting their white papers financed. You had companies that were trading off of clicks. So I lived that. Anybody who is of a younger generation has no idea what a bubble is, and it’s specious and pedantic for them to use that term when they have no clue about what they’re talking about. But you did mention that it could become a bubble. How do we know when it does become a bubble? Oh, it’ll become a bubble. Well, when, when, when you know, the, what, what I am looking for is, you know, when we, when the good investment opportunities start to dry up, when liquidity starts to dry up. So what I, it’s not about valuation, to me it’s about liquidity. So in 2000, what, and I’m roughly speaking, what went down was you had all these companies that were trading at Strat catastrophic valuation, this stupid valuations, and you walked in one day and they didn’t get financing. And if you read the prospectus or you followed the company, you knew that they were not going to be free cash flow positive for another two or three rounds of financing. All of a sudden you walked in and everybody goes, oh my God, this thing, you know, trading at 250 times sales. And everybody went, yeah, of course. And so what it was is, was when does liquidity dry up? So I’ll give you a date, um, you know, with Trump’s big beautiful bill act. 100% tax deductibility of CapEx and that goes until Jan 1, 20 31. So to me, that’s a very motivating factor for people to, um, invest. The last thing I would say to you in more of a game theoretic context book is, look, if you are a big tech company and you don’t invest in ai. You are ensuring your death. Yahoo, Hela Packard. I can go through the list of companies that cease to invest, so they’re looking. If it was you and I when we were running this company, I would say, dude, we gotta invest because if we don’t have a poll position in this next platform, whatever it is, we’re done. We’re toast. And I think that’s why you’re seeing all these hyperscalers spending as much money as they are. ’cause they get this, they saw it. So, you know, you framed ai not necessarily as a a tech trade, but as a capital expenditure cycle. Can you explain that to people? Well, what we need to do is we need to build out the infrastructure of ai. Then, and that’s the phase that we’re in right now. So it’s more like we’re building out all of the railroads, the railway tracks and the railway stations across the United States back in the 18 hundreds. And then we’re gonna go through that building phase. And then as that building phase goes, some companies, some towns, are going to basically realize and recognize what’s happening and start to basically take ai. Bring it into their business model, into enhanced margins. Right. So right now we’re building it out. I mean, you know, we all focus on the hyperscalers, but the majority of companies, pardon me, governments. Individuals, they haven’t used AI and, and what is interesting about this is back in the nineties, they were talking about how the internet had to evolve to be much more. You know, uh, have critical thinking in, in, in it. And it was more explained when you went to these conferences, as you know, you know, think about this. You’re hearing this in 99, okay? Not today. You go in and you ask Google or dog pile at the same time, or excite, okay? You would say, I wanna go to Florida in the third week of March and I wanna stay here and I wanna spend this amount of money and I wanna rent a car. Plan it for me. And they would come back and they would tell you that it would come back and it would, it would, everything would be there. And you would have your over here and all you would have to do is drop your money and you had your thing planned. So none of this is as, it’s aspirational, but we’ve heard it before. And in technology, what happens is it’s not like it’s new. We’ve been talking to, I did machine learning in in graduate school. Ai, you know, I did neural networks and I’m a terrible Ian. This isn’t, you know, Claude Shannon wrote about this in 1937, right? But it’s about when does it hit, and so it was chat GBT. Can we argue, was that right? As an investor, it’s stop arguing, start investing. Then what you’ve gotta figure out, which is the question you ask, is when does the music stop? I think it goes until the end of the decade. You know, one of the things that, uh, is interesting about this, uh, AI investment, uh, it’s, it’s unfolding in a higher interest rate environment. Why is that detail so important? Understanding its significance? Well, it’s the cost of capital, right? And so this phase that we have right now. It’s funny you say that, right? ’cause our reference point is zero interest rates, right? Yeah, yeah. Right. That’s right. So, you know, you know, so, so think about this, what it happens right now. Now we’re in the phase where you’ve got these hyperscalers that instead of taking all their free cash flow and buying bonds and buying back stock, are increasing CapEx because there’s a great tax deduction on it. So you get a lot of, so we’re in this phase where, for where, where a lot of the money is, you know, was. Was, let me, let me be clear, was a hundred free cashflow. Now we’re getting these guys, these companies like Oracle and what have you, you know, starting to issue debt and look at debt isn’t bad as long as the rate of return on debt is higher than the interest rates. And so, you know, you know, I, I would say historically speaking, for a lot of these high quality names, the interest rates are not, uh, at levels that will stop them from investing. Right. Right. You know, you’ve written that, um, productivity is ultimately the real story behind ai. So why does productivity matter more than the technology headlines themselves? Well, let me just put it this way, right? So we’ve grown, I grew up, I, I joined, I’m up here in Toronto, right? So I’m gonna give it to you in Canadian dollars, right? So I joined, I joined here. You know, I grew up here, went to the states, came back home. Growing this company I joined when we’re about three and a half billion. We’re getting close to 50 billion, and we’re the fastest growing independent platform in the country. I’m a one man band, right? I use three ai. In the old days, I’d have four research assistants. Where’s the margin in that? And so I, that’s how I see it. And let me be clear, it’s, you know, this isn’t we’re, it’s not perfect. But if I wanted to say, instead of you, but hey, write me a 2000 word essay on the counterfactual of what happened with railroads up until 1894 when the, when the bubble popped, give me a f, you know, a a thousand word essay and, and just a general overview. I can get that in less than five minutes. Michael Sailor is writing product on ai, which, which, which you would take, which you would take. He’s in his presentation, say it would take a hundred lawyers. So it’s gonna be more about those. And it’s, it’s no different than Internet of things or, you know, it was, uh, Kasparov that talked about this. Gary Kasparov talking about the melding of, of technology in humans. He would ran, run this chess tournament called freestyle. You could use a computer, you could use, you know, grand Masters. You could use whatever you wanted to compete. And who won? Well, who won it Was that those teams that were generalists that had a little bit of that, the knowledge of the computer and the knowledge of the test. Uh, o of chess, right? That’s what’s gonna happen. So this isn’t we’re, as far as I’m concerned, we’re not, yes, there’s going to be some d some jobs that are going to be replaced, but that is always the case in technology. I’m not a Luddite, okay? I am not Luddite. But the same point in time. I, I would suggest to you that it, it is just a really, for me, it’s a, helps me. Do research no different than when I was an undergrad and they went from cue cards in the, the library at the university to actually having a dummy terminal and I could ask questions in queue. You know, it stalked me from having to go to the basement of the library and going to microfiche. Right. Have helping that way. Now can it, can, will it do other things? I’m sure it is, and I’ll lead that to Elon Musk and the crew. You know, that’s above my pay grade. But for me, I see it as a very helpful way of, you know, allowing me to process and delineate. Much more information a a and not have me waste so much time trying to figure out what got went on in the past or, you know, QMF. Right. You know, summarize me the talk five, you know, academic papers in this area, what are they saying? And then they gimme the papers. Right. It just speeds the process up. Yeah. You know, um, one of the things that I’ve been sort of talking about and thinking about. Is that it’s hard to not see AI as a very, very strong deflationary force. Um, how do you think about that? Yeah. Technology is deflationary, right? Doubt about it. And so I look at it this way, Ray. Um, so I work at the financial services industry, okay. You know, Mr. Diamond of JP Morgan is talking about how they are starting to embrace blockchain and ai. They are going to cut out the back end of that in the, the margins in that, in that company by the end of the cycle are going to be fantastic. People just do not get in. You know, the financial services industry is built on a platform. Of the 1960s, dude. I mean, they’re still running Fortran, cobalt. So you know what I, how I look at this is much more as a margin type story, and there’s going to be a lot of displacement. But at the same point in time, I look at Tesla and automation and ai. And you know, people look at Tesla as a car company. I look at Tesla as an advanced manufacturing company. Elon Musk could basically go into any industry and disrupt it if it wanted to. Right. So that’s how I look at it. And so, you know, the hard part is going to be, you know. Nothing. If we get back to where we were, it’s not going to be perfect, right? Because here’s, here’s where the counter is, here’s where the counter is. Right? If you, if, if you think about, and we’re, I’m gonna take Trump outta the equation and ent outta the equation right now, but if we just went back to the way things were before COVID, we would have strong deflationary forces. Okay. Just with demographics, just with excessive levels of debt. Just with, you know, pushing on a string in terms of, in terms we couldn’t get the growth up, you know, and, you know, and the overregulation of financial institutions. Trump and descent are basically applying what’s called supply side economics, and they’re deregulating. It’s says law, which is John Batiste, that says basically supply creates his own demand and it’s non-inflationary. But really what they’re going to try to do is they’re going to try to run the economy hot and they’re gonna try to pull this way out of the debt. And if you do that and you deregulate the banks. And allow the banks to get back to where they were before the financial crisis. Okay. You know, and, and the Fed takes its interest rates down to neutral, expands the balance sheet. Then I don’t think we’re gonna go back to the zero bound in deflation. I think this thing’s gonna run hot for a long time. And I think it, the real question is, is, is is 2 75 in the United States the neutral rate? I think it is. Uh, but as, as, as Scott be says, and, and, and, and, and let’s be clear, buck, the guy’s a superstar. Okay. Guy is a legend. Just you sit there, just shut up and listen to him. Okay. They keep up, right? Well, so they’re gonna run it hot, but where we are is, in his words, mine, not mine. We’re still in this detox period, you know what I mean? We still got the Biden era. We still got, you know, a over a decade of excessive ca of Central Bank intermediation. That needs to get, you know, go away. So what I say, and what I’ve been writing about is 26 is going to be the year that the baton is passed back to the private sector. Let’s get rates down to 2 75. That’s, I mean, I’m going off the New York Fed model. That says real fed funds, the real, the real neutral rate is 75 to 78 basis points. I think inflation’s at two. That that gets you 2 75. Get the rates there and then get the balance sheet of the Fed to the level so that overnight lending isn’t loose or tight. It’s just normal. And then step back, go away and let Wall Street and the private sector create credit. Create economic growth and let’s get back to the business cycle. And if we do that, we’re gonna have non-inflationary growth. It’s gonna be strong, but we’re not going back to the zero bound and we’re gonna grow our way out of this. And so that’s where I get really excited about. This is a very unique time in history. A very, very, very unique time in history where, and I don’t know how long it’s going to last because of the compression that we have now because of the, you know, we live in such a digital world, but let’s say it’s five years demographic says it’s to 33, 32 to 33. That’s, you know, that’s how long this run is. And, and to me, uh, AI is a massive play. I, I, to me, blockchain is a massive play and to me it’s to those countries and companies that get it is, whereas investors, we wanna think, start thinking about investing. Yeah. You mentioned, um, non non-inflationary growth. Can you drill down on that a little bit just so people understand a little bit where. Usually you think of an economy running super hot, you, you think automatically there’s an, you know, an inflationary growth. So I want you to think in your mind into your list as think in your mind. Go back to economics 1 0 1 with the demand curve. In the supply curve, okay? And there are an equilibrium. And at that equilibrium we have a price at an equilibrium, and we have an output as an equilibrium. Okay? Now what I want you to do is I want you to keep the demand curves stagnant or, or, or anchored. Then I want you to shift the supply curve out. Prices go down, output goes out. We can talk all this esoteric stuff, you know, you know Ronald Reagan and, and Robert Mandel and supply side economics. But it’s really your shift in the supply curve out, and that’s what, and that’s what BeIN’s doing. I mean, this is a w would just sit down and be quiet. He’s talking about, you know, what is deregulation? He’s pushing the supply provider. Oh, hold on. My phone. My, my thing. And what did, since the two thousands, what did, what was the policy? It was kingian, it was all focused on the demand curve. Everything was focused on demand. And so all we’re doing is we’re, we’re getting the keynesians out. I use 2000 ’cause that’s when Ben Bernanke really came in and was very influential. Let me just say he’s a very smart, I learned so much from reading. Smart, smart, smart, smart guy. But his whole thing was Kasan. He came from MIT, his thesis supervisor was Stanley Fisher, right? We’re going back to, you know, Mario Dragons thesis supervisors, Stanley Fisher, all these guys came from MIT, Larry, M-I-T-M-I-T, Yale, and Princeton. Whereas previously it was the University of Chicago. It was Milton Friedman. It was, it was supply side economics. We’re going back, they’re going back to supply side economics and right now we need it. We need balance. But my god, what did we end off with? We ended off with four years of mono modern monetary theory. Deficits matter. That’s insanity. You had mentioned a little bit, uh, you, you’ve talked about blockchain a few times here. Talk about the significance. I mean, it’s sort of, you know, blockchain was a thing that everybody was, everybody was talking about it, you know, three, four years ago, but now it’s all about ai. But you know, now you’ve got, um, but in, but in the background, blockchain has grown, uh, adoption has grown. Uh, tell us what’s going on there, and if you could tie it into the significance of, of where we’re at today. Yeah. Um, uh, Jeff Bezos gave a wonderful speech, I think in two thou, early two thousands, where he basically talked about the fact that, you know, once this innovation is led out of the genie’s, led out of the bottle, whether or not, you know, buck and Jim, like it as an investment, the innovation continues. And so after the internet bubble pop, right? Really smart guys like Jeff Bezos, uh, Zuckerberg, you, you, the whole cast of characters, right? Basically built it out. Okay. And it wasn’t perfect and everybody knew it wasn’t perfect. I mean, that was the whole thing that was so bizarre. But they knew it wasn’t perfect and they knew that they needed to solve some problems. Right. And you know, it was a double spend problem. I mean, the internet that we were dealing with right now was developed in the 1950s and so on and so forth. And so, you know, that always stuck with me. Right. A couple of things stuck with me because I’ve lived through a couple of these cycles. The first one is Buck. When the, when Wall Street coalesces around something just shut up and buy it, right? I mean, I, I spent too much of my life arguing about whether dog pile and Ask Gees was better than Google. Wall Street said Google was the best. Shut up. Invest, right? And so, so look, blockchain solved the double spend problem. Blockchain solved all the problems that the original iteration of the internet could solve, and everybody knew it was coming along okay. So it’s a decentral, it’s decentralized, right? Uh, does, does not need to be reconciled. So no. Not only do you have another iteration of the internet. You have basically introduced into society the biggest innovation in accounting or recordkeeping since double entry. Bookkeeping accounting was introduced in Florence, Italy centuries ago by the Medicis and, and buck. All this is out there like, so this is a profound, right? So think about you’re in an accounting department and you don’t have to reconcile, right? So look. The first use cakes was Bitcoin. And what was the, what was the beautiful thing about it? Well, first off, it grew up by itself. And secondly, it’s got perfect scarcity, right? And so let’s just full stop. And I mean, yes, gold and silver had the run that they should have had decades. So I had been waiting and listening to people, gold bugs, talking about this type of run since the nineties. Okay. Um, but look, you know, and the problem with fi money, right? I mean, this is, this goes back decades. It’s an old argument. The way you solve it is, is Bitcoin. That’s the solution. I mean, forget about it. I mean, if they’re gonna whip it around and do all this stuff, fine. But the other thing that people miss and Sailor hasn’t, and Sailor is brilliant, is look. Bitcoin is pristine collateral in 2008, in September. What caused the, the system to stop was the counter. We could not identify counterparty risk for near cash. It was a settlement problem. Anybody you talk to Buck that says it was, you know, the subprime this and it, yeah, that was crap. I get that. But when the system shut down is you had a $750 million near cash instrument with X, Y, Z, wall Street firm, and you did this for three extra beeps and it was no longer cash. Guess. And guess what? Your institutional money market fund broke the buck. That’s when the system blew sky high. When the money market broke the buck and it was a settlement problem, blockchain and Bitcoin solved that. Sailor knows that, look where Wall Street’s gonna go. They understand now that. Bitcoin is pristine, collateral and capital that is 100% transparent. Let’s lend against it, and that’s what Sadler’s doing. That’s why Wall Street hates the guy so much, right? Think about that. Think of where is he going after he’s going after all the stranded capital on Wall Street. And, and the whole point is he’s sitting there going, I’m too busy for this. And you’ve got all these other people that are gonna live off of other people’s ignorance. Meanwhile, Jing Diamond knows exactly what he’s talking about. We can identify, if I hear one more person on me in, in the meeting say, I don’t know. You know, you know, uh, micro strategies balance sheet is so complicated. Really. Compared to JP Morgans, I mean, you know what his capital is. It says Bitcoin, like, what are you guys talking about? But hey, fucking in this business, people make generational wealth on ignorance of people who think they know what they don’t know. So, you know, just going back to Jamie Diamond, you know, he spent, I don’t know how long. Throwing every insult, uh, he could towards Bitcoin. And now they’ve really kind of, they haven’t backtracked. I think he’s, he’s, you know, his, his, um, I think the way he phrases is the blockchain’s a real thing. He never seems to really say the word Bitcoin, uh, in this regard. Um, banks in general, where do you think they’re headed with this stuff? I mean, I, you know, right now, again, you can kind of see even. Um, I think, you know, some of the big advisory firms suddenly recommending one to, you know, one to 4% of people’s portfolios in Bitcoin. I mean, this is all, I mean, gosh, I, I’ve, you know, been talking about Bitcoin since 2017. This is in unbelievable transformation in less than a decade. Where do you see this going in the next five to 10 years? It’s called the, it’s called, what is it? It’s called, I’m gonna call it the Evolution of Jim. Me, you know, in my business and, and, and, and you know, the thing I have book is I’ve survived and I’ve gone through a lot of cycles. I’ve done a lot, you know, and you ask yourself, you scratch your head a lot and you’re, and you, but you’re continually doing objective research and you’re this, if you, this is why I love this game so much. Right? So let’s just go stop for a second. Let’s get some context. Right. My first summer job, one of my first summer jobs, I worked in the basement of a bank in the in, in downtown Toronto, right up the street from the Toronto Stock Exchange. And my job was to let guys in with beak, briefcases into the cage, into the big vault, to basically bring in certificates. Okay. And, and what? Stock certificates. And so remember, you know, and I remember my grandfather when we, when he died, look at, we couldn’t sell the house because he didn’t believe in the banks. And we were finding certificates all over the house in the walls. Okay? Right. So in the 1960s it was bare based. The whole industry was bare based. And there was the volume in Wall Street started to pick up to the point where they couldn’t handle the volume. There was a paper crisis where almost a third of the companies went down bankrupt because of the cage. The cage. Okay. So basically what happened was, to make a long story short, they came out with, they came, Hey, why don’t we get two computers At one point in time, they said, okay, crisis. Let’s solve it. Well, why don’t we get these two computers and we can solve, or we can sell trades among, amongst each other. Okay. And then we don’t need to have guys riding around Wall Street with bicycles and big briefcases. Okay. And then what we did was, what we did was we sat there and said, well, why don’t we have a centralized clearing, and we’re gonna call it DTC or CDS, depending on what country you’re in. And what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna offer paper, we’re gonna, we’re gonna issue paper rights to the underlying stock that was developed in the early 1970s. That’s the system that we’re on right now. There are a lot of faults with that. Let me give you, when you’ve talked about the GameStop a MC situation, when you have a company that’s basically have more shares outstanding short, sorry, more shares short than outstanding, that shows you that the old system doesn’t work. It’s called ation. The paper writes to the underlying assets, it, it doesn’t match up. There have been guys that make a career outta this and write books about this, right? Dole Pineapple. They had a corporate, a corporate event, right? Hostile takeover. 64,000 for 64 million shares, voted, I think, and there was only 3,200 on. We all know this, so this has to be solved. The way you solve it is you tokenize assets, and this was talked about a decade ago, and they know about it and true tofor, they, and if you’re thinking about it, it’s totally logical, right? But if we allow this innovation to go full stream ahead, we’re wiped out, right? So what did they do? They delayed. They delayed. And as you know, you could talk about, it’s called Operation choke 0.2 0.0. Right. You know, the Fed overreached their bounds, they de banked people. I mean, this is why, why Best it’s going after them. They, yet they stepped over their constitutional mandate. Right. The federal, the Fed Act is not, uh, does not supersede the US Constitution. Elizabeth warned the whole thing. They did it. Okay, so let’s not complain about it. So now Atkins is gonna, we’re gonna have the Clarity Act come out and they’re gonna basically deregulate New York Stock Exchange already there. They’re gonna put everything on the blockchain and when you put everything on the blockchain, trade a settlement. There’s no hypo. Immediate settlement. Immediate, which is a benefit if you can get your act together because it, you know, for Wall Street firms you need less capital, right? So it’s a natural evolutionary process. And then you sit there and go back in history, if you and I were writing it, we’d sit there and go, well, should we be surprised that the incumbents right, the status quo pushed back on innovation? No, there was a guy, there was a prophet, um. At, at Harvard, his name was Clay Christensen, and he wrote this wonderful book called The Innovator’s Dilemma. You know, why does, why don’t companies evolve, or why do they go bankrupt? It’s because they cease to evolve and the status quo doesn’t allow the evolution of the companies to take place. Right? Well, that’s what happened in RA. We’re gonna complain about it. No, it, it is what it is. It’s water under the bridge. And so what I think is happening is, you know, Mr. Diamond is basically saying. He’s pragmatic, he’s a realist. And now he’s saying, we gotta evolve. And hey, by the way, now I’ve gotten to the point where I think I can make a tunnel. Think about that. Yeah. Think about his own stable coins, right? So his own stable coins. And, uh, well think about this. If you trade like internal meetings, right? And I’m hyped this hypothetical, right? I go, fuck, don’t screw this up this time. And you’re gonna go, Jim, what are you talking about? I go. We want a nice bread between bid and ask in these financial price. We don’t wanna go down to pennies. Okay? Can we go back to the old days when we were, you know, trading in quarters and sixteenths and so we can make some skin in the game? I think you’ve got the deregulation of the banking industry where the banks are gonna, they’re fit. It’s gonna be baby steps. But what’s gonna happen is they’re gonna basically say, stop taking all that capital that’s sitting at the Fed, making four or fed funds rate overnights wherever it’s four half, 3 75 right now. And you can now trade it. Go back to prop trading, which is what they did. And they’re gonna start off, they will start off with, its only treasuries. Eventually they’ll be able to expand throughout our lifetime. So the old way you gotta look at it is, you know. We’re bringing the ba, you know, we’re putting the band back together, man. Right. And the banks are gonna deregulate, they’re gonna deregulate the banks, they’re going to innovate, they’re gonna be able to use the capital, their earnings profile going out into the end of the decade. It’s, it’s gonna be monstrous, it’s gonna be, you know, it, it’s, it’s, and, and that’s how I get, you know, when people say, where do you think the s and p goes? You know, I say, you know, 14,000, you know, double from here by the end of the decade. And he goes, well, what about ai? I go, well, they’re gonna, that’s important, but it’s the banks. I think the banks are gonna have a renaissance. Yeah. Yeah. Um, one thing just to get your thoughts on, so when you look at the banks, you talked about sort of the inevitability of tokenization. Um, the stock exchange, uh, we talked about stable coins. I mean, another great way for banks to make money. Uh, essentially where does that, how, how does that help or hurt Bitcoin adoption? Because Bitcoin is a sort of a separate, separate, you’re not, you’re not building on Bitcoin as much as you are, say, Ethereum, Mar Solana or, you know, some of the, some of the blockchain things. So, so is it just that. Is it just a, an adoption issue? Because you live in a, in a different world. You live in a world of blockchain and Bitcoin is, its currency. It’s weird, right? Because I, I’m writing this feed like, so Buck, where are you right now? Where, where, where are you located? I’m in Santa Barbara. You’re in California. So, yeah, so I’m in Toronto, right? Uh, you know, I lived in, worked in the States for, you know, a decade, a couple of decades, and I’m back home and it’s like, man, they don’t get it. Right, and, and, and, and what am I talking about? Well, well, this, this is the, the thing that you’ve gotta understand is this, right. Ethereum was invented by Vladi Butrin in this town, Joe Alozo, who’s the head of one of the largest Ethereum groups. Father is a dentist at Bathurst and Spadina. We’re up here and people are saying, oh, you know, president Trump don’t talk about being a 51st state. We act like a colony, duke. We are a, you know, we forget about calling us one. We are. So, look, it, look, there is no doubt in my mind that Ethereum is going to have a place and, and we’re going to use it. Seems like we’re going to use Ethereum and that’s the smart contract, you know? Um. And that’s fine. Um, you know, but going back in time. But, but remember, there’s not per, there’s not perfect scarcity there. So I like Ethereum, don’t get me wrong, but I look at Bitcoin and I look at the, I look at the scarcity, and I also look at the fact of, you know, what sa, what Sailor, if you sailor did a presentation in the middle of next year and all hell broke loose. What he did, and it’s, you know, and of course I’m hypothesizing. He basically went to New York and said, I am going to create fixed income products and I am going to give yields. On those products, and I’m coming after the stranded capital that sits on Wall Street that you guys have been ripping on for years. In the middle of last year, staler went public and declared war. Okay. Are we surprised that Jim Shane Oaks came out and everybody came out basically guns a blazing. Are we surprised? But what he, what Sailor did and put and slammed on the table is it’s pristine capital, it’s transparent capital. And what are you willing to pay for that? And now you GARP banks trading at. We have no idea what their capital structure really is. Honestly, we have an idea, but it’s very opaque, right? You know, the high quality names are trading at two, two to, you know, two times tangible book. You’ve got fintech’s companies trading at four to five times, right book, and you know, what’s Sailor doing right now? Diluting his stock so he can buy as much Bitcoin as he wants because he sees the next game. He says the hell with what you guys think the next game is going to be. Wall Street’s going to realize that Bitcoin is pristine capital and there’s only 21 million of it. What do you and, and what just happened today? What did Morgan Stanley just file a treasury company. So everything you and I are talking about, they know they’re smart guys, right? They’re real, they’re not. That’s, this is the whole point. They’re really, really, really smart. Okay. They see they’ve gone through the history. They know. Okay, so you’re sitting there, you get around the room, you say, so wait a minute. Wait. Whoa, sailor’s over here. And he’s basically saying he’s gonna give you a a pref that’s basically backed by Bitcoin charging 10%. And he’s going after our corporate clients. I mean, and what’s the pitch Buck? You’ve got a hundred million dollars. Okay, you got a hundred million dollars in the kitty. Okay, buck. What happens is you need $10 million a year for working capital, which is in cash, which means you’ve got $90 million sitting there idle. Hey, buck, I can give you 10% on that. You go to Jamie, he’s giving you two. What are you gonna do? Yeah. I think one of the issues right now is I the, the perceived risk profile of that. Right. Uh, you know. I tend to agree with you about the, uh, pristine nature of Bitcoin s collateral, but just in general, the perception. I don’t know that, that that’s. That’s the case. Well, you gotta go back to the fact that, do you think Bitcoin’s going to zero or not? No, of course not. Yeah. ‘ cause the Bitcoin doesn’t go to zero. There’s no, then, then that are, there’s Bitcoin could go to zero. There’s no, I mean, I don’t think, I mean, non-zero probability, of course, right? I don’t think it is. And if that has been, if it has been selected and now you have Wall Street coalescing it, I haven’t even mentioned the president of the United States or his family. Right. Uh, or the Commerce Secretary and his family, right? Or if you go to New York, wall Street, right, they’re all talking about it, right? So, I, I, you know, to me, I, I, the question about micro strategy, to me it’s not. That it’s a treasury company and it’s got a pile of Bitcoin. What does he do with it? Does he become a bank? Like why does it, this is me. I’m pitching him. Right. Hey, Mike, why don’t you just become a FinTech, say you’re like a FinTech company and you’ll get, and you, you’re gonna instantaneously trade it five to six times book. Why don’t you, why are you, you’re talking like you’re attacking them, but you’re still, you’re still a software company with a, with a big whack of Bitcoin that you are writing pres. Right? So, and, and so that’s, that’s how I look at it. I think the wave is too big. We are going to digitize. And the other thing that we didn’t really touch on with respect to AI and blockchain, and I’m gonna paraphrase the president. Right. Um, Mr. Trump is, look, um, it’s a matter of national security, duke, and when I hear that, I go back to the nineties in the eighties when I was in late eighties when I was an undergrad. Right. And it wasn’t China, it was Japan. And, and you know, what happened was, you know, it, it’s funny, Al Gore did deregulate so that. The internet could become for-profit. We all stood around and said, you know what the hell could, how do we make money on this? That’s, you know, what do we do? And then what did we do? We, we, we threw a ton of money at it and the United States controlled it. And what did we get out of it? We got out, we got, you know, all those companies. Right. The last thing I would say to you, and this is much more of a personal story, is I, when I was younger, I was in New York and it was 2000 and I was at the Grand Hyatt, and it was a tech, it was a tech conference and, uh, Larry Ellison Oracle was there and he gave a, he gave a, he gave a a, a fireside chat. Then, um, we go to a breakout room and, you know, in a break, I don’t know about if you’ve been to one, but you go to a breakout room, it’s a smaller room at the hotel, and you know, sometimes you got 25 people, sometimes you got 50 people, right. And, you know, I went to the, I went to the breakout with Mr. Allison ’cause of Oracle and I went in there and it was absolutely jammed and I was sweating and he just looked at us and he just ripped us. He AP Soly, just, I still have the scars today. I’m talking to you about it. Okay. He called it a bubble. He called it a bubble. He, he was early in calling it a bubble. I never forgot that. And then you sit there and see what he’s doing right now. Where he’s levering up the balance sheet. Now, to me, having survived in this game for such a long period of time, and I call it a game, it’s a game of strategy, whatever, you know, how does that not, you know, I would say to you, we were, your office was next to mine. Fuck. I remember New York, he’s loading the goose loaded in. He go in, he’s borrowing money from his grandmother. He’s, you know, what is going on. And he’s really stinking smart. You know, he’s, he, Larry Allenson just doesn’t do, and people, oh, he’s in, you know, he’s, no, he’s not, he’s, he’s like the mentor of all of these guys. You know what I mean? So there’s a, to me, there’s a discontinuity that these need to believe that we’re still early on because you know, what, if Larry’s, what do we take when Larry or Mr. Ellison is leveraging up to me, it’s profound because I’m anchoring off of my bias to the New York, the New York high at, at the Tech Co. I think it was, I think it was at Bear Stearn. I couldn’t remember Bear Stearns or Lehman. But you know, one of those I carry that experience on with the rest of my life. I do. It’s like, what is Larry thinking? Right? So he’s leveraging up buck. That’s all I know. He’s a priest or guy. Well, that’s probably a good place for us to stop, Jim, uh, chief, uh, market strategist at Wellington Elta Private Wealth. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much and be safe. You make a lot of money but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. Uh, and, uh, as I said before, do not ignore ai. This is something that you need to start using. Have your kids start using it. Uh, make sure that they, you know. They use it every day because this whole world is turning AI and it’s gonna happen. You know, it’s gonna happen in, in a blink of an, uh, blink of an eye. And the world is gonna change and there are gonna be real winners out there. And the winners are gonna be people who knew where there was, was going and kind of used it in their mind’s eye as they looked on navigating how. You know how to allocate their money. Anyway, that is it for me. This week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is Buck JJoffrey signing off. If you wanna learn more, you can now get free access to our in-depth personal finance course featuring industry leaders like Tom Wheel Wright and Ken McElroy. Visit wealth formula roadmap.com.
Gabriel Pereyra and Winston Weinberg started legal AI company Harvey in 2022 as roommates in a San Francisco apartment. Pereyra had been working on AI research at Meta and Google, while Weinberg was a first-year litigation associate at O'Melveny & Myers. Today, they still share that same apartment, but their company has grown into a global enterprise serving more than 1,000 law firms and corporate legal departments and valued at a whopping $8 billion. In this episode of LawNext, Pereyra and Weinberg take us back to Harvey's earliest days, when they were sending thousands of LinkedIn messages trying to get anyone to look at their product. They share the pivotal moment when early access to GPT-4 transformed what they could build, the breakthrough that came when Allen & Overy became their first major client, and how they have evolved from building an AI assistant for individual lawyers to constructing what they call "essential infrastructure" for legal work. With host Bob Ambrogi, they discuss Harvey's vision for becoming an AI operating system that integrates across the entire legal tech ecosystem, their focus on memory and agentic AI that can handle complex multi-step workflows, and the massive infrastructure challenges of deploying AI at scale across global law firms while maintaining ethical walls and data security. Pereyra and Weinberg also reflect candidly on how two founders with no management experience have learned to scale a company now employing hundreds of people — more than 20 percent of whom are lawyers — and what it is like to go from struggling startup to being featured in The New York Times as AI billionaires while still sleeping on a mattress on the floor. Thank You To Our Sponsors This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out. Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks. Briefpoint, eliminating routine discovery response and request drafting tasks so you can focus on drafting what matters (or just make it home for dinner). Eve, taking care of the tasks that slow you down so you can operate at your highest potential If you enjoy listening to LawNext, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Agencies are implementing AI in different ways, from developing internal tools to buying off-the-shelf solutions. At Space Force, Chief Data and Artificial Intelligence Officer Chandra Donelson and AI Innovation Lead Oliver Tannheiser told AI GovCast that they are using innovative strategies to bring AI to Guardians. Flywheel Award winner Tannheiser said that Space Force is using GPT systems to give Guardians access to 33 different large language models, allowing them access to different ways to solve problems using AI. Donelson added that Space Force is shifting its AI adoption mindset to identify specific problems faced by Guardians and working backward to find the right tool. Tannheiser also noted that the Space Force AI Challenge is bringing innovation to Guardians. One recent success is Polaris, an AI tool designed to help families navigate the stressors of Permanent Change of Station by finding childcare and base information.
What if your website is quietly turning people away without you ever knowing it? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson talks with Lori Osbourne, a branding strategist and web accessibility advocate whose personal health journey reshaped how she helps businesses show up online. Lori shares how unclear messaging, weak branding, and inaccessible websites block trust, visibility, and growth. Together, they unpack why accessibility is not just about compliance, but about inclusion, credibility, and better SEO, and how simple changes like clearer messaging, alt text, contrast, and video captions can transform both user experience and business results. Highlights: 00:01 – Understand why disability is often left out of diversity conversations and why that needs to change 13:56 – Learn how a life-altering health crisis forced a complete reset in career and priorities 27:10 – Discover why a website alone is not enough to establish authority or visibility 34:19 – Learn why unclear messaging is the biggest reason websites fail to convert 44:43 – Understand what website accessibility really means and who it impacts 59:42 – Learn the first step to take if your online presence feels overwhelming About the Guest: Lori Osborne, affectionately known as The Authority Amplifier, is a Brand Strategist, Website Consultant, and the founder of BizBolster Web Solutions. With over 25 years in technology and nearly a decade of experience helping coaches, consultants, authors, and speakers build a profitable online presence, Lori is the powerhouse behind The Authority Platform™, a complete done-for-you system designed to transform overwhelm into opportunity. Her signature branding process, The Authority Blueprint™, helps clients clarify their message, define their visual and verbal identity, and identify what truly sets them apart in their field. She then brings that strategy to life with an authority-building website - strategically crafted on the Duda platform to reflect credibility, connect authentically, and convert consistently - without the headaches of WordPress maintenance or tech confusion. Unlike agencies that offer cookie-cutter sites or developers who disappear after launch, Lori builds long-term relationships by delivering personalized, high-touch service. Through The Authority Platform™, she combines brand clarity, trust-building web design, lead generation funnels, SEO, accessibility, and sales systems into one cohesive, visibility-driving engine. Lori is known for her warmth, resilience, and insightfulness, and for making her clients feel fully seen and heard. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels with digital tools that don't deliver, and finally create a platform that amplifies your voice, authority, and impact, Lori is your strategic partner. Ways to connect with Lori**:** https://www.bizbolster.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/loriaosborne/ https://www.facebook.com/bizbolster https://www.instagram.com/bizbolsterlori Link to Freebie: https://www.bizbolster.com/vip-visibility-audit About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:17 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I am your host, Michael Hingson, or you can call me Mike, it's fine, and I gave the full title of the podcast for a very specific reason. Where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, typically, diversity people never want to include disabilities in what they discuss or what they do. And if you ask the typical diversity people, what's diversity? They'll talk about race, gender, sexual orientation, and they don't deal with disabilities. But the reality is, and they say that disability isn't a real mindset. Well, Balderdash, it is. Just asked the 25% of America's population, according to the CDC, that has a disability, and they'll tell you that disability is a minority. But the reason I bring it all up is today, we get to talk with Lori Osborne, and she is a person who's been very deeply involved in website development, in branding and coaching, and she is very concerned about and likes to try to help deal with the issue of accessibility on websites. So we're going to have a fun time talking about all of that, much less the platform she uses, as opposed to WordPress, and I'm really curious to hear more about that, because I've my website is a WordPress website, but, but, you know, I think there are so many different ways to deal with things today. We'll, we'll have a fun time. But Lori, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank you Lori Osbourne 02:56 so much for having me. Mike, I love being here. Cannot wait to talk. Michael Hingson 03:01 Well, let's do it. Why don't we start by you telling us kind about the early Laurie growing up and all that stuff, and kind of how you got started. Okay, start at the beginning. Lori Osbourne 03:14 At the beginning. All right. I was born in San Diego. More your neck of the woods. San Diego Naval Hospital, but only got to live in California for two years, which I've always been disappointed about. My my family had my grandfather built a home in La Jolla. So you know, I was I've always been jealous of how my mom got to grow up, but I only got to spend two years there and then I got moved to Norman, Oklahoma, home of the Sooners, never watched football, never went to one football game my entire life. Michael Hingson 03:51 I've never been to a professional or college football game. My wife had, but I never got to go to a football game. I think it'd be kind of fun to do once, as long as I could still pick it up on the radio and know what's going on. Lori Osbourne 04:03 There you go. Yeah, I had zero interest in football until I met my current husband in 2011 and he doesn't miss a professional football game, an NFL game. So I have, I have come to embrace it and enjoy the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Kansas City Chiefs. So there you go. Michael Hingson 04:24 So you're in Florida and you don't root for a Florida team, huh? Lori Osbourne 04:29 I don't, we won't hold it again, you know. Well, you know, I'm one of those. So I moved from Oklahoma to Colorado to Denver area. So I was a Broncos fan when I lived in Colorado, but that was the days of, oh my gosh. Now my mind is going to completely go blank. This is so embarrassing. The the Great, the greatest Broncos player who is now a general manager, John, oh my gosh. Can think of a it'll come to me. But anyway, he, you know, we. Were actually like, yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Elway. Yes, I was a guest. So we were actually, like, winning Super Bowls when I first moved there, so, you know, and then it went, kind of went. Then I became a Peyton Manning fan, and my husband's from Pennsylvania, and he's like, you can't just change your mind about who you support every time we move. And I'm like, but I can't, yeah, why not? So when we moved to Florida, I Michael Hingson 05:26 the Jaguars, jaguars, yeah, yeah, they Lori Osbourne 05:29 just haven't been a great team. And I I watched Mahoney, Mahoney play for Kansas City, and I just fell in love with how he plays and just his style and his leadership, and I just became a Kansas City fan, just because I love watching him. And last season was a little disappointing because he didn't throw as much, but, but, you know, he's, he's amazing, so that's that's my reasoning. Michael Hingson 06:03 So So you you didn't fall in love with Travis Kelsey and try to go steal him away from Taylor Swift before things got serious? Lori Osbourne 06:12 No, no, I was already in love with my current husband. Michael Hingson 06:15 So see, tell him that there are some things and some loves that do transcend location. Lori Osbourne 06:23 There you go. Yes, absolutely. Well, you know, he's so obsessed with football that we I actually included in our marriage vows that I would support him through his two fantasy football teams and a lifetime of football in my future, because I knew I was marrying football when I married him. Michael Hingson 06:46 One of the things that spoils me about sports out here, and it's not so much anymore, but it used to be the case is, I think that here in especially southern California, we had the best sports announcers in the business. We had Vin Scully doing baseball, and I think that it'll be a long, long time before anyone comes up to the caliber of Vince Scully. And there, there are things that they do now that that really messed that up. But Vinnie was a was was the best. We had Dick Enberg, who did football and and other people. And Chick Hearn did basketball. Chick hurr had talked so fast that I don't know how he was able to do it, but I learned how to listen fast because I grew up listening to Chick Hearn new basketball. I love it. So, so I got spoiled on sports, listening to those announcers. I keep up with football from a news standpoint, especially when it gets close to the Super Bowl, so I can decide who I'm going to if anybody for for in the Super Bowl when they have it. Yeah, I do kind of like the Rams, because I live out here and I've always kind of liked them, although I was mad at them when they moved to St Louis for a while, but, but still, they're the Rams. I mean, we'll see what they do this year. I think they've got a good coach, but I by no means am a football expert or anything like that. I keep up though. Lori Osbourne 08:08 Me neither. I, yeah, I kind of joke, you know, my husband will watch like, you know, eight games at once, the red zone or the whatever, and it's flipping around. And I just can't, so I just joke I'm a fourth quarter watcher. On Sunday nights, Monday nights, I'll watch the fourth quarter and because that's where you know if it's gonna happen, that's where it's gonna happen if it's gonna be worth watching. Michael Hingson 08:30 Yeah, well, I'll be interested to see what happens tomorrow, because the Chargers are playing the chiefs in Brazil. Lori Osbourne 08:41 Yes, and I don't, I don't even know if we're going to get to watch it, because, you know, the NFL spread out across all these different platforms now, and if you don't have the platform, you're out of luck. Michael Hingson 08:52 I think it's going to be on TV. It'll be watchable, but it starts at 530 Pacific Time, and I don't quite understand that. If they're doing it live, that would mean it's going to start at nine. Start at 930 in the evening in San Paulo. So I don't know how all that's going to work. We'll see. Lori Osbourne 09:07 Yeah, yeah, we shall see. Yeah, we're I don't know if we're watching tomorrow nights, but my husband's definitely watching tonight, for sure. Well, I Michael Hingson 09:15 don't think there are more games on tomorrow other than that one, so maybe he will. And maybe you actually get to focus and just see one game, Lori Osbourne 09:24 right, right? That's, that's, that's the nice part about the non Sunday games. Usually it's just, Michael Hingson 09:31 well, so you, so you grew up and you, you only lived in California for two years, and then where did you go? Lori Osbourne 09:40 I lived in Norman, that's right, until I was 29 I actually found my birth father when I was 23 and moved to Colorado to get to know him and his family. Michael Hingson 09:55 So you were a diamond. Lori Osbourne 10:00 Not really. I just, he was just never part of my life. Your mom married someone else, yeah, okay, yeah. I always had. My mom just didn't have my dad. And it's, you know, it's been an interesting experience, because, you know, being in my 20s when I met him, and my mom and I were opposite growing up, and I never understood my personality, because she was quiet and passive and wanted to work in the same job her entire life, and I was the opposite. I was vivacious and loud and aggressive and always wanted to be self employed. Then I met my dad and went, Oh, it explained it all, I'm just like him. It's crazy how the you know the genes work for sure, Michael Hingson 10:51 but you got to know him, and the relationship was a good one. Lori Osbourne 10:55 Yeah, yeah, right. We just, he's in Idaho now. We just got back a couple of weeks ago from visiting. I mean, it's been interesting, trying to enter a family, you know, in your 20s is is bizarre. I kind of, I kind of equate it to being an in law, like, I'm not quite all the way in, because I, you know, I didn't grow up with these people. They don't know me. But, yeah, it's been interesting. So where in Idaho, near Coeur d'Alene Sand Point near Michael Hingson 11:25 standpoint, I have a brother in law who lives in Ketchum, in Sun Valley, and who is an avid skier, and has been an avid skier basically his whole life. Now the real big question is, of course, where is your father when it comes to football, Lori Osbourne 11:46 my father does not sit still. Okay? That is, that is one way that we are different. He I joke that he'll probably outlive me. I mean, he lives on 14 acres. I think he just, they just sold 40 Acres. But he doesn't. He never sits still. He He's always going, going, going, working on, you know, he had, he had his business, which he sort of still does. But he works on fences or helps with the does something with the horses or the hay or the, you know, it's just it. He works his plan does not I don't think he the TV when we were there was on music the entire time. Yep. Michael Hingson 12:30 So hardly a person who tends to watch football. Well, that's okay. So you, you grew up in Norman? Did you go to college there or in the area? Lori Osbourne 12:43 I went for a year and then couldn't figure out how to keep paying for it. I honestly didn't even realize financial aid was a thing. So I started in the workforce and became a recruiter, technical recruiter, pretty early in my career. I did that for 12 years, and then started my own recruiting business and got my degree during that time. So I got a bachelor's degree in business administration, 4.0 average while working. Proud of that, but I was in my 30s, and then I got cancer right after that, had colon cancer at 36 which I blame an 18 year abusive, horrible marriage, I think really led to that, but it pushed me To get out of that horrible abuse of marriage. And then a few years later, I met my current husband, and I am the happiest I've ever been, Michael Hingson 13:51 but you also were able to, in one way or another, beat the cancer Lori Osbourne 13:58 I was, yes, it was actually stage one colon cancer. Only had surgery so that one, yeah, didn't even have to have chemo or radiation. And actually, what got me into my current business? I was a when I got divorced, I did this is kind of funny to me. I when I got divorced, I decided I no longer wanted to be straight commission, and because I had gotten a job after after the cancer, and now I'm self employed. And so why? I think I wouldn't want to be straight commission, but it's okay to be self employed, but it's a completely different mindset. You know yourself very much a different mindset. But I was in tech. I moved from recruiting into hands on technology. I did project management, software testing, I looked at websites and helped design websites from a business perspective, but I was never, never a coder, never, you know, did the visual design? Nine and in 2015 I we had just moved to the opposite side of Denver. We had just changed, I had just changed jobs, had a brand new home, and then found out I had a brain tumor. Michael Hingson 15:15 Oh, gosh, yeah, you're just an attention getting person. Lori Osbourne 15:19 That's all you. I know. That's it. I just walk around going, yep, that's it. So, yeah. So I, I ended up leaving the job because it was, it was very traumatic. I ended up having two surgeries. They couldn't remove the tumor. It's part of my carotid artery. It's a meningioma. It's benign, but it's part of my carotid artery, and it was causing my left eye to droop, so they went in to get it off the optical nerve and nicked the carotid and caused a brain bleed. And that brain bleed caused that drooping eye to become a half blind eye. So I ended up, for about a year and a half, I had double vision. I also had found out I had a stroke from it, I was having problems with words and forming, you know, the right words. And I had no tolerance for stress for a long time, so there was no way I was going back to project management in the IT world, right? This wasn't so I literally, I spent about a year recovering and just started messing around, going, Okay, well, what can I do with the talents that I have? And I started building a website on Squarespace, and it was called Health Net, like grandma. And it was just talking about my I lost my mother and my grandmother to cancer at 63 both at 63 and then I had gone through what I went through. And I just wanted to share the stories, you know, the what I've learned from a health perspective. And in doing that, went, wow. Why have I not been developing websites the last 20 years? This is what I should be doing. I love this, and I bet other business owners could really use some help doing this. And that's when my business was born. Michael Hingson 17:20 Wow. How did they discover the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne 17:26 It started with me falling asleep at my brand new job desk. Was I could not hold my eyes open. I actually thought it was an adrenal reaction to leaving a super high stress job to a very boring job, but it was not. They did all these tests. They put me on thyroid medication, which helped, and then my left eye started drooping, like literally within weeks together and and it was funny, because they they sent me to an eye doctor, and the eye doctor sent me to an eye surgeon, and they wanted to do surgery on it. And I'm like, don't you want to figure out why this is happening? Like, I don't want you to touch my eye until you know why my eye is drooping. And my doctor thought that was the craziest thing she'd ever heard. So she goes, Well, have we done an MRI yet? And I said, No, so they sent me for an MRI that day. And lo and behold, not only do you have a brain tumor, but you have had a stroke. Okay. Gosh, you know, she did not want to share that news, those news with me. She was very embarrassed. Probably, well, Michael Hingson 18:43 but you need to know, yeah, and clearly you already had demonstrated that you had an analytical mind, and it would be valuable for you to know, because it would help you in dealing with making decisions, or thinking about what decisions to make going forward, right? Yeah, so you did. So you went through the surgeries and all of that, and what, what happened to your your left eye, Lori Osbourne 19:10 it, it's still mostly blind. I have a sliver of vision that I can't control. So if I go to the eye doctor, they try to get me to look at the chart, and I can't focus it on the chart, and I get very frustrated. I blocked it for the first year. Now my eyes are so it's it's developed its own way of working, so I can't even block it anymore without causing worse headaches than I already have. Bad headaches kind of came out of all of this. So I really just live with it. I live with the headaches, and I ignore it as much as I possibly can and and hope it's improved slightly over. The last 10 years, they told me it would never improve. But, you know, our brains are amazing things, and it's it's trying, but it's still not. I just tell them make the left eye prescription the same as the right eye because it makes no difference. Yeah. Michael Hingson 20:17 Well, so with, with with all that you've you've dealt with, with, with this clearly, you figured out a way to go forward, and you've, now, I assume, used all that happened to you, and you've analyzed it in some way or another, that you have made some decisions about what you want to do with your life, which is namely the whole brand development and web development and dealing with accessibility, which is pretty cool. Lori Osbourne 20:51 Yeah, yeah, I am. Once I discovered that passion and the I honestly never realized I had the creative side of me. I knew I had the analytical I knew I had the project management and tech, but once I realized I actually have a very strong creative side, then websites were the way to go. And it's it's really I can be working on a website for four hours straight and feel no pain, and that that alone tells me I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I love it that much, and I feel like I'm that talented at it. Michael Hingson 21:30 I think you've made a very interesting observation, and one that I relate to very well, which is working commission is one thing, but working for yourself, which, in some senses, is the same, but it's totally different, and you have to have a different mindset to make it work. Lori Osbourne 21:48 Oh, absolutely, yes. I mean, I'm I'm not selling a product for someone else. I'm selling myself, and I am the product, and I have to live by my my values and my mission and my why, which is completely different than selling services for someone else, for straight commission. Michael Hingson 22:12 I have always told my the people who I hired as sales people to analyze and and think about what they do. And one of the things that I did with every person I ever hired was I would say, tell me what you're going to sell. And literally, all but one person said, Oh, we're going to sell the product. This is the product we're selling. This is what it does. But the best sales guy I ever hired, when I asked that question, Said, the only thing I have to sell is myself and my word, and I need you to back me up when I give my word about something, Michael Hingson 22:50 great answer. It was, it was the actual, it was the answer I was looking for. And I said, well, as long as we communicate, and I know what you're going to say, and that's all about trust, I'm going to back you up. And never had an issue. And in fact, he and I worked very well together, because we figured out how my talents in sales and management could augment and accentuate what he did, so that the two of us could work together. And I think that's that's so important, but you're right. The only thing any really good salesperson has to sell is themselves, and you have to be true to your own attitudes. Yes, yes, which is so Lori Osbourne 23:33 integrity is everything. I mean, if you especially as a small business owner, I mean, and I'm in a very small community, and I this. I only lived here since 2018 and it's kind of been shocking to me how how a small community works. But if you do it right, everybody knows your name. If you do it wrong, everybody knows your name. Yeah, it's you know when, every time I get a call because the chamber has referred me again. I just smile, and I'm like, Okay, I'm doing it right, you know? And it's, to me, it's all about integrity. If you, if you say you're going to do something, do it, and if you can't do it, say you can't do it, say you can't do right, or say I'm going to figure it out. Yeah, you know, I didn't. I charged very little my first few years, and I always my first few years, I told clients, I don't know what I'm doing yet, so I'm not charging you for the time that I'm learning. I'm going to charge you for the time that I'm actually accomplishing something. Michael Hingson 24:30 One of the things I always told every again, every salesperson I ever hired is for at least the first year. You're a student. No matter what you think you know and what you know about sales, when you're working with customers, you're a student, ask them questions, really learn from them, because they want you to be successful, even if you don't think they do. And the reality is that, in general, they do want you to be successful, and the more you encourage them to teach you, the better relationship you're going to develop. Lori Osbourne 24:59 Absolutely. And 100% yes. Michael Hingson 25:02 So how long ago did you end up having the brain tumor? Lori Osbourne 25:07 I was diagnosed in August of 2015 So wow, I'm, I'm at exactly 10 years. 10 years. Yeah, I didn't, oh my gosh. September 22 will be my my first surgery dates. There you go. Wow. Right at 10 years Michael Hingson 25:23 See, I'm glad we we help you remember, Lori Osbourne 25:27 I can't, I can't believe that was, like, not even on my mind. I mean, it was actually September 17. Was the first surgery, that's right, and it's the same day as my dog's birthday. And we were just talking about my dog's birthday yesterday, but I didn't even think about the tumor. So well, it's all good Michael Hingson 25:47 a week from next Wednesday. But you know, you you obviously are doing well, well, so how did your your business in the the way you do things and what you do? How did all that change after the surgery, or had you already started down the road of branding and being a branding coach and website development and accessibility? Lori Osbourne 26:10 No, all of this came as a result of all of it. So it literally just grew with me, as I, you know, transitioned into life again, and being able to function mentally and physically, I would just start, you know, working on a little bit of, you know, a couple of websites. The first website I built was from for a realtor that we worked with. We did three different deals with him in two years. He was this great Scottish guy, great personality, and his website was horrific. And I begged him to let me do it. It was a I think we ended up doing 39 pages total, and just read redid the whole thing. He loved it. A lot of it's still in place 10 years later. But I just, I just started building, and then we moved to the area we are now outside Jacksonville, and I found a local networking group and started meeting people and getting introduced to businesses and just slowly built and learned a little bit at a time, and learned a little bit more. And then it was not actually until last year I realized that I have branding skills and talent that I haven't been promoting. I was using the skills and I was building on brand websites, but I didn't say that, and I didn't recognize it as a separate talent from website development. I kind of thought everybody did that, until I realized that that's not true. So I've been doing it, and a lot of it is just, I the natural, just natural talent for color and almost like designing houses. Like I knew I was really good at designing houses, but I didn't recognize that that translated to websites. And so for last, like, year to 18 months, I've really kind of bought into the brand strategy piece of what I offer. Michael Hingson 28:19 Well, how did you develop this concept of authority platforms, and what is it? Lori Osbourne 28:27 So the authority platform is what I'm calling the full package. It kind of started when I got really frustrated with everybody telling me or everybody's an exaggeration, but so many people saying, Oh, you don't need a website. You just need landing pages. And I would try to educate people that landing pages are not enough, but I couldn't put it in the right words, and when I started really looking at it, going, well, landing pages are great, if you have the visibility to get people to the landing page, and if you've built a relationship in a different way, if it's through speaking or through a book or through other types of promotions, then yes, the landing page can help or maybe replace the website. But where that led me was a website alone is also not enough. We need full visibility. We need to be seen in a lot of different ways to establish our authority as experts. So with the authority platform, I'm looking at the brand and understanding the brand, the website, the lead magnet, the funnels, the search engine optimization, and then helping them also have a good CRM to manage all of this, hooking them up with with good speaking coaches or podcast. Opportunities and just looking at it from a full life cycle of being visible and showing that authority online. Michael Hingson 30:10 And how's that gone over? Lori Osbourne 30:14 It's, I'm still building it honestly, the website's absolutely I'm I'm really working on building the collaboration pieces for the rest of it to truly say, Yes, I have the authority platform, the branding packages that I'm offering and the branding pieces that I'm doing are making a significant difference in the quality of the websites I'm building, because I come out of it with a custom GPT that they can use, and I can use that really establishes that baseline for the brand and the bringing in their values, bringing in their communication style, and bringing in their ideal client and how to speak to that ideal client. So the GPT is built around all of that, which is perfect when we're building the content for the website. So I would say, you know, we're 75% of the way there to having my true authority platform. But I'm still building, you know, authority building websites every day. Michael Hingson 31:20 Well, I gather that you don't tend to like to use WordPress. You use Duda as a platform builder and so on. Tell me, I'm curious why and what, and I don't have any any disagreement or or really knowledge to talk intelligently about it. But tell me why you use Duda and what, what it brings. Lori Osbourne 31:44 So my my challenges with WordPress started with my first client in Florida. They there was a nonprofit. They had no idea what they were doing, and I'm like, I I'm techie. I can go in, I can figure it out, and I could not figure out WordPress, and I got very frustrated with it going, how in the world does anybody else do this? So I kind of stayed away from it for a little while, and I was building on Squarespace for a time, and then I discovered Duda. I consider Duda to be the best of Wix and Squarespace. It's very similar. But the things I don't like about Wix, I don't like about Squarespace, Duda has resolved. It's also very customer oriented and SEO oriented and accessibility oriented. So there's a lot of advantages to the platform. The reason I don't support WordPress is I've had too many, too many people come to me with broken websites. Too many WordPress people do not educate their clients that that you have to update the plugins, and they don't. They just leave them and don't offer to do that for them, and it's it's an unnecessary addition that I don't think most people need for their website. There's plenty of things that we can do and do to that we can do exactly like WordPress without the headaches of that extra tech and plugins breaking and security breaking because the plugins are breaking, and it's it just it's too unnecessary, in my opinion. I tried to support WordPress for about a year and a half, and I found that I was not helping my Duda clients because the WordPress was always so much high maintenance. And those were the websites that were going down, and those are the websites that were having issues where my due to clients, their websites were never down, they never had issues. Michael Hingson 33:51 But don't need, but don't you, from time to time need to provide any kind of updates to Duda doesn't. Aren't there as the as the whole website evolves, doesn't, don't you need to find ways to evolve what they are and what they do Lori Osbourne 34:05 on the front end, on the front end, absolutely I mean, but from the back end, from a platform perspective, Duda handles all of that. It's self contained. Got it? I don't have to worry about that. And they're also always adding new features, which is another thing I absolutely love about them there, and I have yet to find, let me rephrase that. I've probably found a couple of things that if I could not duplicate on Duda to match WordPress, it would require code, and I don't code, but I can still achieve the goal of what my clients are looking for. There's nothing that they've said I have to have this that I can't provide. And the offset of not having the worry around the tech is has always been worth it. Michael Hingson 34:55 So the creators of Duda in the background as. They make updates and changes, they go out to everybody who uses it to create their websites automatically. Is that? Is that what happens? Lori Osbourne 35:07 Okay, yeah, it's seamless. Yeah, you don't even, you have no idea that there's even updates being done. It's completely seamless. Michael Hingson 35:15 Yeah, okay, well, I understand that. That makes a lot of sense. What's the one mistake that you find that keeps business owners from really progressing and keeping their websites and them invisible? What's the biggest mistake you see? Lori Osbourne 35:36 Messaging unclear, messaging which, which really goes back to the brand. If you don't understand your brand, you don't understand your why, and you don't know how to express how you solve problems for your ideal client, let me, let me rephrase. If you don't even know your ideal client is and you're trying to speak to them, a lot of people think they sell to everyone, and when you try to sell to everyone, you sell to no one. And if you are trying to speak to the masses from your website, you're going to lose the people you really want to reach. So it comes down to that, that niching down factor and really understanding your ideal client, so that when they hit your website, they immediately know you understand my problem and you can fix it. And it really comes down to that versus I can fix, you know, I can build a website for anybody. Well, then that makes me no different than a website developer down the street. Then it comes down to a price comparison, and then we're just bidding against each other. So you've gotta, you've gotta what makes you special, and what and and your why is a big part of that. Your values are a big part of that. And speaking the right language and that messaging. Michael Hingson 37:03 Can you tell me a story of maybe one customer that you worked with where you can demonstrate exactly what you're talking about here and why it made a difference without mentioning customer names, but the story? Lori Osbourne 37:17 Oh, yeah, um, you know, it's been a while since I did that realtor, but that realtor is still just such a great example, because you the fact that he was from Scotland doesn't necessarily seem significant, but it really does, because, you Know that Scottish accent made him endearing. He was a very professional, good looking guy. And you go out to his website, and it was, I can still see it today. It was like green and this old, funky text, and it, it represented him in no way. And I remember the first thing he told me was, you know, I've got this video where I introduced myself and I went, why in the world is that not on your homepage, like what people need to hear you speak and see you and experience you. He was phenomenal. And we did three deals with him. He was phenomenal at what he did, and that what, you know, if we had just rebuilt his website and just did the video, it would have that alone would have made a huge difference in people knowing who they were working with and how he was different. And another example I can give more recently, I work with a mentor who mentors seven figure coaches on how to work harder, make more money and and do it in less, less investment of your time. And when I took over her WordPress website for for two years, I just kept repeating and rebuilding the same crap, basically. And finally, when I decided to leave WordPress, I said, you know, I really want to start all over. And I realized in that two years, you know, I had not taken the time to really get to know her brand. And when we sat down and really learned what made her special and different, and we were able to capture that in in the website, that the difference in the experience was night and day, you know, before it was just text, and, you know, a little bit of information. She never referred anybody to her website. And now it, you know, opens with a video. She's also a professional speaker. Opens with a video of her speaking. She is very she's a. Ballroom dancer on the side, she's very elite. So we, you know, pulling in things like gold and video, I have a lot of motion on the website with gold moving because it, it, it's that brand of that dancer that, you know, that eliteness of it and it, it's subtle, and it has nothing to do with the messaging side that I just mentioned, but it's still back to the brand and the representing of who you are, who she is, what we're selling, you know, we're selling ourselves. Michael Hingson 40:33 Yeah, well, websites and website developers put all sorts of things out there and that that's not necessarily a good thing. But what are some signs that a business's online presence don't necessarily match their real life expertise? Because I I believe that people see through people who just sort of talk, and I think that that all too often, you get this reaction, oh, they're just talking that isn't what they really believe or that isn't what they really know. So what are some signs that the online presence doesn't match what they really know and what they really are? Lori Osbourne 41:15 Part of it is that that genericness, if you if you can't even say who you are serving, then you're obviously the person you're looking at is obviously not clear about their ideal client. If it's not clear who they are serving, and if it's this just generic message of not in these words, but we're the best use us. You know, there's, there's no detail about what makes them different and how they specifically solve your problem. If the website is completely outdated or generic, that may or may not allude to anything but it, it definitely shows that they don't, are not using their website to show their expertise. The other huge thing, I would say, is testimonials. Every website should have reviews. I mean, what better way to sell ourselves than to have someone else say how we're different, how we operate and why we're the why we're the best. That is huge. If it's all about them, as in the person's website you're looking at, if it's not, if I'm, if I'm getting on a website and they're not even acknowledging what's in it for me and how they're going to solve my problems, then I'm not going to have any confidence that they have any idea how to solve my problems. They haven't even they haven't even talked about my problems. They haven't even mentioned my problems. They're just telling me that they're selling me something, and this is how much it costs, and this is what it's going to do. But I but do you get me? Do you know? Do you understand me? I think all those are it's really important that we are speaking to the ideal client in their language about their problem. Michael Hingson 43:10 I have heard so many times and totally agree with and work to do this myself. Michael Hingson 43:18 The whole concept of when I'm invited to speak, it's not about me. Yeah, I'm invited to speak, but my job is to enhance, to help to make life as easy as possible for the event organizer, to help the event organizer make this, the whole conference, even better than they thought it would be. And and I have to do that because it's not about me, and it should never be about me as such, right? Lori Osbourne 43:48 It's also about your audience and your audience, yeah, so that they know you want them to want to know more. Yeah, that's also the purpose of your website to make people want to know more. Michael Hingson 44:01 Yeah, very true, and it should be that way. And if you're doing it right, you'll also provide more for them to know. Right? Lori Osbourne 44:15 Absolutely. Well, that would be something else that I would say I I always encourage people to give away as much as possible on their website. It if people know that you really want to help me solve my problems, and you're willing to give me something for free that starts a relationship. And that's really, at the end of the day, that's the point of the website. It's not to sell, it's to start a relationship. It's like the first step of dating. We're not getting married yet. We're dating, and if you're if you're giving away a piece of yourself through a video or a download or even a free course. Course, that's it. That's going to endear the audience to to want to come back for more. And even blogs, great blogs will get people coming back for more. And people always go, Well, you know, if I give everything away, I'm not going to make any money. No, you give away what? What doesn't cost you time, but is giving some knowledge so that they want more, and they know that you you get them, and they can trust, you know, like and trust so they can build that, that base for a relationship. Michael Hingson 45:32 Yeah, and it, it makes perfect sense. It is all about building trust. And everything that we do is all about building trust, and the more trust you build, the more loyalty you'll create. Lori Osbourne 45:47 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson 45:49 So we've talked about website accessibility. What is website accessibility and why is it something that people really should focus on? Why is it important? Lori Osbourne 45:59 That feels weird coming from you, Mike, Michael Hingson 46:03 because I know you are an expert in this, but I preach it, but I preach it all the time, so I want to hear what somebody else has to say, and I want people who are watching and listening to this hear from somebody else other than me. Okay, that's the motivation behind it. Lori Osbourne 46:18 All right. All right. Well, website accessibility is at its core. It's making the website available and usable for everyone, including those with disabilities. So whether it's blindness or inability to use a mouse or you said it earlier, dyslexic, Michael Hingson 46:40 epilepsy, any number of things, right? Lori Osbourne 46:43 So anybody, just like accessibility for a ramp into a store, it's allowing me, from my home, as as a disabled person, to be able to function on your website. And as we know, I believe the stat is 20% of people have some kind of disability. It's also an inclusion. It is a piece of I consider a piece of your marketing, because if you are excluding 20% of the people with your website, why? Why are you doing that? It also builds strong Search Engine Optimization. Because if you look at all of the guidelines for accessibility, they're very similar to the guidelines you need to have in place for good search engine optimization. Google is looking for the exact same things. Yep. So it's it's really just making your website available to everyone Michael Hingson 47:42 well, and the reality is, well, let me ask this question, rather than me just saying it beyond legal compliance. Why should accessibility be a priority in website design? You've kind of alluded to it already. Lori Osbourne 47:56 Yeah, part of what I just said, it's including everyone. It's not excluding 20% of your market, and it's building trust, inclusivity and credibility. It's, it's, and it to me, it's showing that you care. It's, it's very bothersome to me when someone says, Well, I probably won't get sued, so I'm not going to worry about it. Okay? But why do you want to not do these basic things so that everyone can access your website? Well? Michael Hingson 48:33 And also, in reality, it does get back to if you're a website owner, that is, you're a company that has a website, and you recognize that the job of your website is to help people see why you have something they need. The fact of the matter is, do you really want to not make available to 20 or 25% of the population your website, or to put it another way, don't you want to make sure that you are making your information available to everyone? And that's what the real reason for website accessibility is truly all about. The fact of the matter is that it's good business to make your website accessible. Lori Osbourne 49:24 Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Michael Hingson 49:26 What are some high impact changes that you think that website owners can make, to make their websites or to have their websites be more accessible, maybe even just some simple things? Lori Osbourne 49:38 Oh, there are so many simple things. I mean, the easiest thing that so many people miss is adding alt text to images. I mean, it's, and it's one thing I love about Duda, by the way, it they do it with AI and do it for you, and you can edit it. It's so, so wonderful. But it's, it's a simple step. It also is. Great step to even help with SEO, because you can include some keywords there, but that that alt text tells someone that's using a tool that's blind exactly what that image is, and what is the point in putting that image on your website if it's not going to provide any value to those that can't see. I mean that, in my opinion, another thing is the contrast in colors. A lot of people don't understand that contrasting colors has a lot to do with readability, and if you are putting two colors together, I mean, think about it even from a scene person, if you're looking at it and you can't read it. It's not accessible, right? So, you know, have high contrast in the colors of text on anything over it. Don't try to put something over an image that can't be read that just just, don't do it. Skip that. I was just doing this on my website today. I was trying to put an image, and I went, you know what? That's just not going to work. I'm going back to a solid color. It doesn't it's it and it, you know, that's from a business perspective as well. Because even if you're not thinking about accessibility, if someone can't read the text or can't read the button, they're not going to click it. You're not going to read it. They're not going to buy it if they can't read it. So simple little things like that. Those would be the two biggest things I would say. And then just, you know, little additional things like making sure that your website is converting properly to mobile, if it's if it's not, if things are coming off the page, because you didn't bother to look at the mobile side, which is easy to miss on many platforms that can have a huge impact on the scene and those that need the tools or need accessibility pieces that's, you know, commonplace design and very easy thing to fix. Michael Hingson 52:11 It's been a while since I looked at this website, and I think it's not quite what it used to be, but for a while, my favorite website, absolutely. My favorite website for accessibility was the website of the National Security Agency, nsa.gov, Michael Hingson 52:31 of all the websites in the entire world. The reason I liked it is that not only did they have all text on images if you were using a screen reader and you moved your cursor over an image, you suddenly got a very detailed description of that image, like you. Michael Hingson 52:55 You moved your cursor where you used your screen reader to move over the American flag. It would say the American flag on a flagpole hanging in front of the opening to the building of the National Security Agency. Yada yada yada. I mean, it's just everything was there. It was the most amazing website. I don't know that it's that way anymore. I haven't looked at it in a little while, but I was very impressed with how much they did and relative and relevantly and appropriately so to make sure that everything on that website was totally usable. And a lot of people could say, Well, why do I have to do that? And the answer is, you have to do it for the same reason that you want to make your website accessible, if you will, for people who don't happen to have a disability. The reality is, all those things that you put on the website for people who can see them and so on, like pictures and so on, if you don't make those things accessible, you're doing a disservice to a significant amount of the population. Whereas, if you do it all, then while you can look at the picture, I can hear all about it, and that's the way it ought to Lori Osbourne 54:10 be well. And there's so much I mean to me that is an opportunity to to even go further with the folks that need the screen reader. Because, I mean, when I'm and I mentioned that dude, it does it with AI, but they, they do it too generically. When I go in, I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. I want to, I want to build the presence of the picture. This is who they're doing, who it is from the business, and this is what they're doing, and this is what you know, this offer is talking about that's an extra sales opportunity right there. For those that you know, need the alt text, why not use that? Michael Hingson 54:49 And also, I'm amazed at how many people may look at pictures and so on and look at words and not really pay attention to them very well, because they just kind of skip over it. So the more you can do to attract people's attention to the right things. Is relevant too. I'm amazed at how many people just gloss over so much. Lori Osbourne 55:09 Oh, absolutely. Well, you know, this kind of become our society, yeah, short attention span for sure. You know, I want to mention two videos. I really feel like people need videos on their website, especially of themselves, because it helps people get to know you. But you need to have that closed captioning and again, dialog. Michael Hingson 55:33 You need to have dialog so that a person who can't see the video will also know what the video shows. Lori Osbourne 55:41 Explain, explain what you mean by that a little bit more. Michael Hingson 55:44 So you go to a website, and there's a video, and you click it, and you start hearing music, and that's all you hear, even though, on the screen you see a person walking down the street, walking into somebody's store, finding a product they want and buying it. But if you don't have a way to make that information audibly accessible to people who can't see the images and who don't see the videos, then what good is it you haven't made it accessible? Yes, closed captioning works for deaf or hard of hearing people, but again, there's so much more that needs to be done. Wow. Lori Osbourne 56:25 Thank you for sharing that, Mike. You just gave me more to think about on videos. Michael Hingson 56:31 One of my favorite commercials to pick on today, and for the longest time, I had no idea at all what it was about. It starts out with music, and somebody says something like, so what do people over 60s show and bring out today? And they talk about love and they talk about something else, and suddenly the sound goes dead, and all you hear for the next 20 seconds or more is this high pitched whistle sound. Ooh, yeah. And I finally got somebody. I finally was in a room with somebody when I heard the beginning of this, and I said, What is it showing? And all it was showing, and what, apparently it is, is a promotion for people getting the RSV vaccination. Lori Osbourne 57:19 Oh, right. Oh, I do know what commercial you're talking about, yes, but text just goes on the screen. Michael Hingson 57:26 RSV, RSV, RSV. But there's nothing that says what that is at all, period, Lori Osbourne 57:33 because they're trying to make the point that you're that your life shuts down when this hits. But yeah, for someone like you, that's completely worthless. Michael Hingson 57:41 Not only does my life not shut down, my life gets very active, and I want to go off and find those commercial designers and show them what true accessibility really ought to be about. But that's another story. But yeah, Lori Osbourne 57:53 yeah, exactly, wow. I mean, I think about you every time I see that commercial, those rare times I see commercials, Michael Hingson 58:05 what's one of the what's one of the myths about branding and websites that you could erase, that you really wish you could race forever? Lori Osbourne 58:18 I probably told you to ask me that question, and now I'm stumped by how I want to answer it. I think, I think I know where I wanted to go with that. Yes, a lot of people think branding is just colors and fonts, and honestly, when I first started doing it, I thought it was just colors and fonts. And I kind of go, I went into Okay, colors and fonts, and then consistency, okay, we want to make sure we got we're consistent with our colors and fonts across everything that we do that's that's branding, that's visual branding. But real branding is Our Story. Is who we are, what we stand for and who we serve. It's the package of everything around what we're selling, back to selling ourselves and really understanding this package and making that consistent across everything. And consistency is huge, in my opinion, when it comes to branding, if you have a different header image or marketing image on every single thing you do and there's no consistency in the look, then you're not going to be memorable. You. I can't help you see this, Mike, but anyone that does go out to anything of mine, I have a very consistent image that was used to build my logo, and it's on everything that I do. I also wear very bright, colorful glasses. Everything I do is very bright and colorful, and it's memorable when people see me and they see my glasses, it can be three years later and they go. I don't remember your name, but boy, I remember those glasses. You know, it's, it's, and that's part of my branding. When people say, I love your your glasses, I go, thank you. It's part of my branding. Yeah. So it's a, it's an overall everything about you. When people describe me, they usually describe me as bright and colorful, like, that's, that's one of the first things that comes to their their mind, and then they it translates to energy, because they think bright, colorful energy. So it's, you know what branding really is, is, what do people say about you when you're not in the room? Michael Hingson 1:00:30 Yeah, that's, that's a good that's what it is. Well, if there is a business owner who is in our audience today who feels overwhelmed by their digital presence. What would you suggest is the first step they should take to change that? Lori Osbourne 1:00:47 Well, the the first thing I would love to see anyone do is sign up for a visibility review or audit with me, so that we can look at your presence and talk about it, and I can give you some very specific suggestions for how to improve your online visibility. If you're wanting to do something on your own and you're you're trying to figure out where to start, sit down and look at first, your your homepage, in your first line of every bit of your marketing and ask yourself, does it say who I serve and how I serve them, and the problems that I solve. Because every ounce of your marketing needs to say that immediately you have less than eight seconds when someone hits your website. And there's all kinds of some people say three, some people say 10s and 15. I just leave it at eight. Do eight or eight or less seconds on your website. So start there is my messaging clear? And then look at your website overall and does it represent me and the message I want people to see. We can go into a whole lot more about it being up to date and everything else, but that's where I would start, right there. Michael Hingson 1:01:58 So how do people reach out to you to get your help to deal with all of this. Lori Osbourne 1:02:02 Well, you can obviously go to my website, which is biz bolster.com, B, I, Z, B, O, L, S, T, E, r.com and I believe you will be sharing a link to that visibility audit. Just sign up for that or a free strategy session. But I encourage the visibility audit, because it literally takes about an hour of my time to check out everything about you and then share that with you. So this is an investment that I'm willing to give you to help you all understand how you show up online, and then what to do about Michael Hingson 1:02:45 it, biz, bolster.com, I hope people will do that, and they can reach out and contact you through that website. Lori Osbourne 1:02:53 Yes, click on, let's chat, and it gives you all the all the calls that you can sign up for in my calendar, and I would absolutely love to speak to anybody that has questions or wants some direction. Michael Hingson 1:03:07 Well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you being here today and spending so much time talking about all this, and I hope people will take it to heart. Wherever you are listening. Reach out, biz, bolster.com and get some insights and get some help to improve the website the web world, because only about 3% of all websites are really accessible today, which means there are a whole lot that are not, and there is no real excuse for that being the case. So reach out and Michael Hingson 1:03:41 you can get all the help that you need. I'd love to hear from you, to hear what you think about today's podcast. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We value your ratings and your reviews a lot, and I but I do want to hear from you. I want to hear what your thoughts are. Also, if you know of anyone who might make a good guest for unstoppable mindset, Lori, including you, would really appreciate you introducing us, because we're always looking for people who have great stories to tell, and today has certainly been one of my favorite podcast recordings in a long time, and that's because we really did have fun, and I think we accomplished a lot and we learned a lot. So I want to thank you, Lori, once again, for being here and for being a part of unstoppable mindset. Lori Osbourne 1:04:35 Thank you, Mike. It has definitely been a pleasure. I've enjoyed talking with you a lot. Michael Hingson 1:04:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
Welp. That was wild.
The Automotive Troublemaker w/ Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier
Shoot us a Text.Episode #1247: Canada slashes EV tariffs in a controversial China deal, OpenAI kicks off its ad-supported ChatGPT Go plan, and Recurrent CEO Scott Case calls out the real EV story: a booming used market dealers can't afford to miss.Show Notes with links: In a surprise move, Canada struck a deal with China to allow 49,000 Chinese-made EVs into the country annually at a dramatically lower tariff—down from 106% to just 6.1%—in exchange for agricultural trade concessions. The move has stirred both optimism and outrage across the automotive industry.The deal drew sharp criticism from Unifor and industry leaders, who say it rewards unfair labor practices.Critics say it could hurt Canadian auto jobs and complicate USMCA negotiations with the U.S.One of the qualifications is that the vehicles be priced around $30k CAD (25K USD)Don't call it a slow down says , Scott Case, CEO of Recurrent in is Automotive News Op Ed. Despite media headlines suggesting electric vehicle demand is cooling, Case says the narrative is missing the real story and it is that used EVs are booming as he urges dealers to ignore short-term noise and prepare for a long-term shift.Case argues that demand isn't falling, it's shifting to lower-cost used EVs as new prices soar.The used EV market is set to grow 5x, driven by a wave of off-lease EVs hitting the market in 2026.“Winning in the EV market means selling $30K vehicles with 300-mile range and Tesla charging access. In 2026, that means used EVs.” —Scott Case, Recurrent CEO OpenAI just opened the ad door inside ChatGPT as it launches its lowest-cost plan worldwide. That's right, ads are coming to the AI assistant for free and Go users in the U.S., marking a major monetization pivot ahead of a planned IPO.ChatGPT Go is now available globally at $8/month and includes GPT‑5.2 Instant access.Ads will appear as “Sponsored Recommendations” under responses for Go and free users. Sam Altman once called ads a “last resort,” but now says he's okay with them “if it doesn't violate user trust.”“Ads support our commitment to making AI accessible… by helping us keep ChatGPT available at free and affordable price points.” —OpenAI blogThis episode of the Automotive State of the Union is brought to you by Amazon Autos: Meet customers where they shop: reach high-intent buyers shopping for their next car on the #1 online retailer.Join Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier every morning for the Automotive State of the Union podcast as they connect the dots across car dealerships, retail trends, emerging tech like AI, and cultural shifts—bringing clarity, speed, and people-first insight to automotive leaders navigating a rapidly changing industry.Get the Daily Push Back email at https://www.asotu.com/ JOIN the conversation on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asotu/
Welcome to the The Achievers Podcast. I'm your host Amber Deibert, Performance Coach. I help enterprise sellers unlock their full potential by aligning their work with how they workout and cleaning up mindset trash, so they can sell more, stress less, and take back control of their time and success. If you've ever felt like your to-do list is never-ending, your brain is overloaded, or you're spinning your wheels without real progress, you're not alone. In this episode, I'm walking you through the exact planning system I use to stay focused, reduce overwhelm, and actually move the needle forward (yes, even with ADHD). Whether you struggle with day-to-day chaos or long-term goal clarity, this framework will give you a clear path out of the mess and into momentum.
Ready to transform your job interview experience and boost your confidence? This week on the Mums on Cloud Nine Podcast, Heather Black, Lyn Constantine, and Kelly-Jace Halls are joined by the inspiring Lani Bass to explore how AI can become your personal career coach. Heather Black introduces Lani Bass, a Supermum alumni who navigated a five-stage interview process with remarkable success, powered by AI tools like ChatGPT. Discover how Lani Bass harnessed technology to build her confidence, prepare for interviews, and even create a custom GPT that you can use yourself. Whether you're re-entering the job market, relaunching your career after a break, or simply want to ace your next interview, this episode is packed with empowering advice, practical tips, and personal stories that will leave you feeling inspired. Key Points You'll Discover in This Episode: How AI (like ChatGPT) can help you prepare for interviews, update your CV, and boost your confidence. The importance of rehearsal and refining your interview answers using AI tools. Building custom GPTs based on your own CV and job descriptions to deliver tailored interview questions and responses. Tips for making sure your CV gets through application tracking systems, without losing your personal voice. How to create presentations in branded colours to impress potential employers. The role of 'personal clones' in capturing your unique tone and communication style. Why having a human perspective alongside AI-generated content is vital. Explore the journey from self-doubt to self-assurance using practical and affordable AI tools, and find out how you can access Lani Bass's custom interview prep agent (details in the show notes). Useful Links: ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/ Gamma AI: https://gamma.com.ai/ Notion: https://www.notion.com/ Lani's GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-695fdf1c0a8c8191baeabb998e2d56f2-gpt-interview-prep Join the conversation, subscribe for weekly mindset tips, and empower yourself to carve out a career and life you love. Brought to you by the Supermums team, supporting women to relaunch their careers since 2016. https://supermums.org/ For links to Lani Bass's custom GPT interview prep tool and other resources mentioned in this episode, visit the show notes on our website. Ready to step onto your own stage with confidence? Listen now!
Apple just handed Siri over to Google Gemini. Meanwhile, Google's Personal Intelligence wants to crawl ALL your data. This is the AI lock-in war of 2026 and you're the prize. Plus, Claude Cowork dropped (and they built it in two weeks), Grok can no longer put bikinis on people, and the US military is apparently running on Grok 4.20. Cool cool cool. We've also got the world's biggest Twitch streamer being an AI anime girl, Google's Universal Commerce Protocol making AI shopping actually possible, and Gavin walks through building a personal website with Claude Code that doesn't suck. THIS IS THE LOCK-IN EPISODE. YOUR DATA IS THE HARNESS. Come to our Discord: https://discord.gg/muD2TYgC8f Join our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AIForHumansShow AI For Humans Newsletter: https://aiforhumans.beehiiv.com/ Follow us for more on X @AIForHumansShow Join our TikTok @aiforhumansshow To book us for speaking, please visit our website: https://www.aiforhumans.show/ LINKS: Apple Ch-ch-chooses YOU Gemini https://x.com/CNBC/status/2010735678468886969?s=20 Gemini's Personal Intelligence Turned On https://gemini.google/overview/personal-intelligence/ Claude Cowork: Agentic AI Comes For Normies https://claude.com/blog/cowork-research-preview OpenAI's 'Sweetpea' Jony Ive device is a weird bean behind your ear? https://x.com/zhihuipikachu/status/2010745618734759946?s=20 AgentCRAFT https://x.com/idosal1/status/2011124558976434469?s=20 Cursor Built a Browser In A Week Autonomously with GPT-5.2 https://x.com/mntruell/status/2011562190286045552?s=20 Grok Will Stop Undressing People And Putting Them In Bikinis https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8gz8g2qnlo Meanwhile… GROK RUN MILITARY?!? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/13/elon-musk-grok-hegseth-military-pentagon Flux2.klien: New AI Image Model From Black Forest Labs https://bfl.ai/blog/flux2-klein-towards-interactive-visual-intelligence TRY HERE: https://bfl.ai/models/flux-2-klein#try-demo The World's Most Popular Twitch Streamer is an AI https://x.com/ColinandSamir/status/2008330184244818411?s=20 Live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/vedal987 Extensive Wikipedia Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-sama Vitestra Blood Draw Automation https://x.com/Berci/status/2010975905632375053?s=20 Palette Moving Robots https://x.com/TansuYegen/status/2010954624782716981?s=20 Inflatable Breaking Bad https://x.com/ingi_erlingsson/status/2010796339878379536?s=20 QWEN INFLATE LORA https://huggingface.co/spaces/systms/INFL8 Skibot https://x.com/TripInChina/status/2010415159064576371?s=20 Gavin's Personal Website With Claude Code https://www.gavinpurcell.com/
Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson l Presented By Marigold
Ever stare at an AI tool and think, cool, but how do I make it write like a real marketer? Jay Schwedelson brings on Michael Stelzner to break down why Claude is the go-to for persuasive copy and how to set it up so it actually learns your style instead of forgetting everything five minutes later. If you have been fighting custom GPT amnesia, this one will feel like a reset.ㅤGet $100 off the already discounted AI Business World ticket here:https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/dothisAlso check out Michael's AI Explored podcast for weekly, practical AI tactics.ㅤBest Moments:(02:08) Why Claude is the best writer for persuasive marketing copy(04:05) The simplest explanation of Claude Projects and why they beat custom GPTs(05:30) The “artifact” trick that turns messy output into clean, usable docs(06:45) Uploading 1,000 testimonials and letting Claude pull the perfect snippets automatically(11:38) The ninja prompt move: generate 8 options, then force the AI to pick the best(16:57) The quick pitch for AI Business World and the $100 listener discountㅤCheck out Jay's YOUTUBE Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@schwedelsonCheck out Jay's TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@schwedelsonCheck Out Jay's INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/jayschwedelson/ㅤPre-order Jay Schwedelson's new book, Stupider People Have Done It (out April 21, 2026). All net proceeds are donated to The V Foundation for Cancer Research—let's kick cancer's butt: https://www.amazon.com/Stupider-People-Have-Done-Marketing/dp/1637635206
Kiera and Tiff are on the pod together to ask, What are you working toward? Your professional purpose can often get lost when you're too buried in work, and the two invite listeners to take a step back and ask themselves key questions in order to recenter. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and it is Spiffy Tiffy and Kiera back on the podcast. I messaged Tiff and just said, Hey, are you free? Because the topic today, I actually think Tiff and I can really rift on of such a solid conversation. I'm really excited about. So Tiff, welcome to the podcast. How are doing today? The Dental A Team (00:19) I'm good. I'm excited because we haven't even, I don't even know what this, what you're thinking. So we're all learning this together, you guys. The Dental A Team (00:25) you It's true. This is the magic of Kiera and Tiff. We can truly pull each other in at any moment of any presentation and we pretty much can just pick up. And I think that's a beautiful thing when you have somebody that, I don't know, Tiff, it's just like, I was gonna say a funny joke, but I'm not gonna say that joke. We want someone who is so connected to you that just knows what you're going to do. It's truly pure magic. And we've literally had that since we met. So for those of you new to the podcast, welcome. Tiff and I are. just two girls who love dentistry and wanted to change the world. And here we are. We really are passionate about life and business. We're passionate about dentists having their best lives, team members having their best lives. And that's really the core of what Dental A Team is about. So to get both of us, mean, literally I met Tiff when I was a rookie business owner. So the fact that we're still here together, we still love working together, I think is a pretty magical, incredible thing. And we would just always have said, we wanted to build a business that we are proud of, that we enjoy working in. There have been times we have not enjoyed working here. I remember last year about this time I called you and we're both like, why is it so hard? Like I just remember it. And so there are ups and downs of a business, but in that vein, okay, Tiff, here's the preface. You ready? I'm going to tell you. So I was at the gym the other day and I absolutely hate with a passion sled pushes. Like I hate them. They are freaking hard. And Laura, my trainer, she like, I hate it. Like I don't have strong. shoulders, my knees like hurt like that's why I go to the gym like I've got these like dumb problems and I was pushing the sled and like I'm shaking every ounce me wants to just give up it is so hard it's not that far but I really absolutely like loathe sled sled pushes and sled poles and Laura yelled at me she's like Kiera what are you working towards think about that while you push this and I was like I'm doing a podcast on this and Tiff I feel like you are the perfect person to podcast with me on because that has set with me. And as I was pushing, I literally had the thought of I'm pushing to my 90, 100, 110 year old self that Tiff knows the vision. Cotton candy pink hair here, cotton candy blue hair on Tiff. We're going to be these like fit ripped grannies that are just living our best life, having so much fun. But I thought about that physically for my body. But I thought we do sled pushes and sled pulls in our business every single day. And to really start to think and dig deep of like What are we working for? What is that purpose? And Tiff, know that this is right up your alley, which is why I didn't even have to prep you on it. Cause I'm like, let me just give a little preface and you're going to be all in. Cause one it's working out, which is your huge passion to its life. And three, we get to be on the podcast together. It's a triple win. You're welcome. So triple whammy. Here we go. So just thinking about that, I don't know. I want to just, have no agenda of where I want to take this podcast other than The Dental A Team (03:01) I do love it. Triple whammy. The Dental A Team (03:15) It just made me really, I've been thinking about this. We're probably like four weeks since she said it to me, like literally it was a yell. So just imagine me and Tiff are your gym trainers here yelling at you, like, what are you working towards? What are you pushing this for? Why are you doing it? And I think sometimes that can get lost in people. And I think until we get that like yell wake up when it's like truly just like hard, I think sometimes we are asleep and hopefully today's podcast might wake you up and bring you to being present, being focused and being intentional. So Tiff. It's okay, take it away. The Dental A Team (03:45) Totally, I love working out, so thank you. Thank you for thinking of me and that reference. I don't do sled pulls because I don't like them, and I don't have a trainer telling me to do them, so I'm very proud of you for doing them. This is wild, I hate mountain climbers and knee ups. Those are my two worst enemies. So I'm with you on hating some sort of exercise at least. I'll do, I don't know, I'll do a burpee all day long for you, but ask me to do a knee up or a mountain climber, I'm out. But actually, The Dental A Team (03:54) you me too. Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (04:14) This is, we're always like synchronistic. So it is fitting that this comes up. I actually like on a, think there's different scales that you could take this conversation. And I think there's the grand scale of like, why are we doing this? You and I come back to this constantly. And at about this time last year, we had really lost that vision and that drive. And so we did have to come back. I was actually thinking about that just the other day. was like, gosh, it was almost a year ago at this point, like by a couple of weeks, I think. Yeah. So yeah. The Dental A Team (04:37) too. Crazy. Like literally. The Dental A Team (04:42) Yeah, so I was thinking about it too, but this morning actually, I had a conversation with a client and it kind of, it's very pertinent to this subject and it kind of is interesting to me because we're thinking on a grand scale here and you're like, you're 80, 90, 100, 110 year old self is what you're envisioning and we go big a lot on like goals and visions and dreams and wishes for the, the. clients for their practices, but something that I chatted about this morning was like as simple as something you're implementing. And the conversation was set around bonuses and bonus structures. And I was like, okay, you can do anything you want with a bonus. I don't care. I truly don't care what you decide. You need to be profitable at the bottom line, the end of the day. That's all I care about. My job is to make sure you're profitable. I don't care what your decision is. I have input on everything. But the real question is, why are you doing a bonus? Because that will help answer the question of which style of bonus you want to do. And I think, Kiera, why are you exercising? Because that's going to help you decide what style of exercises are the best for that need. If you just woke up one day, people do this all the time. They're like, I'm gonna exercise today. I'm gonna start today. And they're like, okay, there's, this is like, I think one of the main reasons people don't exercise, because you wake up and you're like, today's the day I'm gonna do it. And you're like, okay, there's 15,000 gyms to choose from, all ranging prices. I could get a trainer, but that's X amount of money. And I don't know that I need one or want one. I could do a CrossFit gym. I could do power lifting. I could do, spin classes, I could do there's a million things. And so it's like, if you don't know the reason why you're doing the thing you're going to do, it's very difficult to pick what that looks like or to finalize or decide or clarify what that looks like down to the smallest decisions. And when people sit in indecision or I always say if something is really, really hard and I say this, I always preface this with that doesn't mean life isn't hard. Life is hard, but when something is so hard that you're like, why isn't this working? I think of the toddler with that little game, right? And it's got the circle and the triangle and the square and the X. And this toddler has the square and the circle and they just sit there banging and banging and banging and banging and screaming in frustration because they know it's supposed to go inside the box. It's supposed to get inside the box, but they can't figure out. The Dental A Team (07:10) Mm-hmm. Thank you. The Dental A Team (07:36) how it gets inside the box. And when we're sitting there like banging our heads against the wall, if you were doing all of these things in the gym, Kiera, felt this way about the sled and weren't seeing results, that's that space of like, I am doing everything I can possibly think of, why isn't this working? When you feel that way, I think my suspicion is that we've lost sight of why we're doing that thing. The Dental A Team (07:38) Right. Okay. The Dental A Team (08:05) Right? Or that thing isn't actually fitting the reason that we're here and we're doing the wrong thing. So we need to find that new path and that new thing circumventing what we're trying to do. We're trying to break through this wall, but sometimes it's like, no, actually that wall was supposed to be there. I was supposed to drive around. This is someone's yard. I can't just drive through their yard. Like this wall is supposed to be here. I'm actually supposed to drive around this wall, but my shortest path in my brain is through the wall. I hope that makes sense. The Dental A Team (08:23) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It does make sense and it actually made me think about Simon Sinek's why starts with the why, which is the purpose. And then you go into the how, which is the process. And then you go into the what, which is the result. And I think so many people, you said Tiff, they're starting with the result. It's like, I want to have a six pack. ⁓ Great. But like why? When you can go bigger and I can think of, like when I was pushing that said pole, I'm like, I'm so angry pushing this thing. And I'm like, yeah, but 90 year old, 110 year old Kiera, if I can be running, I can be walking, I can be lifting things and my bones aren't frail. That's the purpose. Like that's the big purpose. This is why we're even doing. What is the cause? What do you believe? Like I believe that I'm going to be 110 year old fit woman who can do all these things. Then the how is the process. I go to the gym three times a week and the result is I have strong muscles and I have the six pack. That's, that's the after effect. That's not the starting. And with your practice, like when Tiff and I, talked about it, we lost the why. That's why I think things were so hard. Like I feel like we were the toddler trying to shove the X into the circle and saying like, get in there. Like this needs to fit. Like it has to be this way. Like you said, we were running into someone's yard. Like there was a wall there and we couldn't see it. And when we scaled it back and it was like, this is the purpose of why we're doing what we do. Then the how is the process we do consulting this way. And then the result is your business grows. The profitability is there. You look at your numbers. And I think when I just, it really was just a highlight of I think people today listening, I would just implore you and encourage you to ask the question of why am I doing this? And not like you can have it to make money. That's a result, but there's got to be something deeper and bigger and more than that. That's going to sustain you through that. Like true sled pull push, because I don't know, like businesses are not, you are not profitable forever. Like that's not something that's just like you get to profit and you stay at profit. Just like you don't get to fit and you stay at fit. You don't get to. a certain result and you stay there. You have to maintain, have to be vigilant. You have to be on top of it. Just because like, I remember there was an epiphany one day, Tiff, Tiffanie epiphany. There you go. It's not quite efficiency, but I'm going to get there. ⁓ it was an epiphany where I literally was like, I get not half to work out. get to work out now, not to look good, but to be able to walk and not have pain. Like it was this moment. Cause I used to just work out. Like I need to like, look a little bit better in my swimsuit. So like, we'll just go to the gym for that. Then I was like, no, this is just a way of life. This is a process. And I think when you realize that that's business, like being profitable, looking at the numbers, being the CEO, getting the team on board, doing great dentistry, that's all part of this. It's not the, do this just because it's like, that's part of all that you're doing. But when you have a greater why, I mean, even just the last couple of nights, me and Gwendolyn, which is my chat GPT have been hanging out tip. And it was crazy because even though I'm exhausted, I'm lit up and fired up and excited because of what we're building and the purpose and all that. And that's what you want to get to. And to think Tiffanie, a year ago, you and I, remember I was on a walk. I remember exactly where I was. And I just remember hearing you and like, it was so like painful. You're like, why is this so hard? And I remember stopping, sitting on the ground, literally crying. And I was like, I don't know, Tiff, like, this is not what we built this for. This is not the life we want to be living. Like something radically has to change. And it was because I think our why was just grow a bigger business. wasn't, let's change people's lives. Let's impact people. Let's look at what we're doing and how we can shift it. So I know that was a bit of a rant on my side. I just hope people are waking up and remembering like, what are you working towards? All this pain, all this hardship is part of it. But when that why is so vigilant and so pressing and so driving it, you're able to get through the sled pole as much as you don't enjoy it and get to the other side because you know there's a bigger purpose you're working towards. The Dental A Team (12:21) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. And I think that we also have to remember that things shift and they change. The reasons that we do things change. So I have a couple of thoughts as you're speaking. First of all, you're having a difficult time ⁓ committing to a task or doing it all the time, or sometimes I forget, I'm like, shoot, I forgot. was gonna start going to the gym three times a week, like six weeks ago, and I haven't gone once, right? So if you forgot, it wasn't important, right? So my theory on that is either it's not the right thing. So you chose the wrong thing to get you to the result you're after or your result you're after, your why, isn't strong enough. It doesn't hit fully yet, if that makes sense. So like Kiera, you said your reason for working out, right? When Brody was four, I think three, four years old, I was exhausted and I was tired and being a parent of a freaking three, four year old, like it was rough. was a single mom and it was... The Dental A Team (13:04) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (13:20) I was just tired and I was like, you know what? Like, this is ridiculous. I do not want my kid to remember that mom couldn't hang. Like I couldn't play with him at the playground because I was tired easily or I couldn't, whatever it was, color with him because I'm like, no, like I just gotta rest, right? If I couldn't do the things with him because I wasn't taking care of myself, because I was pouring into him and tired, like that crazy cycle, that wasn't enough for me and that's when... realistically when ⁓ workouts and training and stuff took precedence in my life. So my, my Y was easy. It's Brody. My Y for everything is Brody, but that shifts and it changes. Brody is Brody is my entire life, but he's going to college soon. And so now like I'm in that stage of that we all get to personally and professionally of, what is my Y now? So I think something that we get stuck on is what we think, what we put into the universe, what we say has to be forever. And that it's like, no, this is why I started this business. Okay, but like, it's not the 90s anymore, right? Like I can't keep, I can't wear my clothes from high school, even though they're coming back around. If I wear those clothes from high school, which I don't have anymore, I would look ridiculous, right? So like stop trying to be the past version of yourself and understand and give value to the fact that you have grown and your business has grown. So who you are and who your company is today is outgrowing, kind of like the crabs, you know? Like they outgrow their shells and they get to gift that shell to a new crab. A new crab walks along who's at that stage and they're like, this is my space. Let me take this giant home. This bigger crab that left that shell behind, The Dental A Team (14:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (15:12) is now in a bigger shell. And if you're not willing to shed that shell, you're one, keeping other people from growing. You're still, that crab can't find that home if you haven't left it behind. And you're keeping yourself from growing. So to Kiera's point of like, you're not always gonna be profitable. There's gonna be, it's all cyclical. And if we're not open to the idea that our why has to change and it has to evolve to continue to be important to us, then I don't know why you created one in the beginning. The Dental A Team (15:44) I don't disagree with you. And on the profit thing, our goal at Dental A Team is to make sure our offices are always profitable. So we're just going to put that asterisk there. I think it can be. It's just not something where it's like a set it, forget it. You can just walk away from it. ⁓ And Div, I love that you said that because I think the permission right now to change, because me working out used to be to just look good. Like that was honestly what it was. It was like, I want to have this ripped body, like. but not like so ripped, like just toned. I didn't like truly didn't have to work super hard at it. So was like, I go to the gym like as a social thing. That was it. That was, that was my why at that point. Now it's a like, no, like 90 year old Kiera needs this 40 year old Kiera needs this today. Like just who I am today. And also my mental sanity needs it today. And so allowing yourself to morph, to evolve, to grow. And I think when you look at your business and it was wild. ⁓ We had outgrown our why a little bit and our why needed to change and we needed to come back home. I think there's still always threads of what it was, but like you said, Tiff, life changes, circumstances changes. I think I got to a spot where I realized all the goals I had set for myself and for our company, we had pretty much hit. Like, so was kind of just this like rogue, like, all right, we've done this. And as a grower and a creator and a builder, I don't want to just do the same thing day in day out. That's not who I am. That's not what I was built to do. That's not what our company was built to do. And so we had to, but like, couldn't keep doing that myself. I needed to get the team button. I needed the team to help build a bigger vision. We needed to collectively all decide where do want this to grow? And I needed to have something bigger than myself. ⁓ I think is where that shifted. And so really for you, no matter where you are in the phase of the journey, no matter if it's personal, professional, if you're a team member listening, if you're a doctor listening, whomever it is, if this is a team meeting, I think also for every team player to find out what our why is, what are we working towards? Like pretend we're your gym trainers and we're yelling at you right now. Like, what are you working for? What are you doing all this for? Is it the same as what it has been? For Tiff, it's always been Brody. And I'm actually really excited, Tiff, to watch you morph into another version of yourself where Brody goes to college. And Tiff, like for me, it was like, cool. We were trying to have children. We were trying to do all these different things. Like that didn't happen. And so I remember sitting there and I'm like, what the heck? I'm not doing any this anymore. Like I want to work this hard. I want to be this tired. I want to be this exhausted. There's nothing bigger that I'm working towards. And when we lose that, you lose the momentum. ⁓ or if it gets foggy or fuzzy or life changes or things don't happen the way you planned really just, think reassessing today, what are you working for? What is, and working personally, professionally team wise. And I also like for me, I get lit up now when I find out what team members are working. I love tip. love our one-on-ones. love hearing. what Tiffanie's personal goals are. love hearing Britt. And I used to say that now it's like even more fun because we can take the business and manipulate it to create people's dream lives for them and also change Dennis lives too at the same time. And to me, that's even like more of a fun why that's bigger and more engaging and more exciting. But like you said, Tiff, it's crabs, it's shells, it's evolving, it's evolution of soul. And I think allow yourself to evolve, allow your team to evolve, allow your business to evolve, but whatever you're doing, just make sure If you've lost that spunk and like inspire, find it again. Have it to be more like, again, a year ago I did not have this and then two nights, the last two nights, I'm so excited to run spreadsheets at numbers and figure it out. Like the puzzle, it's like scheming over here with me and I can't wait to come talk to Tip and I can't wait to do the projects that we're building. And I know Tip feels the same way. Like it's just fun and there's energy because we're, I think we're centered and focused on what we really want to do and committed to that and willing to allow ourselves to rewrite it. consistently to make sure that we're always being inspired, always being challenged, always growing and progressing. So that's like my, that's my, are you working for? Spielstift. Any last thoughts you've got to add to this and thank you for popping in unannounced. I knew you'd be the perfect person. I knew there'd be nuggets that we could both pull to this. And I didn't want to do this alone because I also think not intentionally, but as I just said it, I actually think building a why and a vision of what you're working towards is so much more fun when you have people and a community and a team of people that are bought in. that is so much more fulfilling. And I think for a long time, Tiff, you probably could have tested this. I think I tried to be a lone wolf trying to pull the team along and I had to shift and realize it's so much more fun to collectively have a group focus, a group process. Yes, I need to be, I need to have like at least some starting point to it, but it's so much more enjoyable when there's more people bought into it rather than just myself. So maybe that's also why I felt the want and need to have you on this today too. So any last thoughts, things you think of? as we wrap up today. The Dental A Team (20:22) Yeah, I think a couple things. One thing, what you just said is to like make that actionable for people is that you provide a template. Like we can create what we want this company to look like, right? But it's not our company. And so you provide a template for us so that we can work off of that. And then together we create the vision and the mission and all of those pieces. But they align with who you are because that's what this company is here for. It would be ridiculous for anyone else to be the one that creates that because it's not our company. ⁓ So I think you provide the template, which is, know, every time you ask me for something, I'm like, well, you're going tell me what you want it to look like. we all need that, the clarity. You provide the template and the clarity. The Dental A Team (20:57) Thank Can we, can we ask Rick on that real quick because you, so let's go back to when we met a year ago. I remember you saying, Kiera, we joined this company because of who you are and the vision you had. inspired us to join you. And that was something like, it's still like, gives me like tingles hits me to my core. I thought I was being selfish building a vision and a template. And when you said that you're like, you've lost yourself basically like in more polite words than that. But you were like, you need to get yourself centered and get us excited because you driving this dream, this vision is why we collectively have come together. And if you're this floating bubble off on no man's land, waiting for us to co-create it because you want us to take ownership, that's what's going to lose our team. And Tiff, I don't know if you remember saying that directly to me. I remember exactly where we were. We were looking across the room at each other when you said it. And I'm just grateful that you have the, I think, courage to say that to your boss, to your friend. I think a lot of team members don't realize that you can really help your leaders ⁓ get enlightened when there may be a little fuzzy. But Tiff, as soon as you said that to me, like, I'm not being selfish. This is what you guys need from me. This is why we're all here together. And if I can give that template, that guidance, everybody can rally around that. But that's got to be something that's core in me because I can't fake fire and the team will not come if there's not a spark. I like excitement that's got to be built within me. The Dental A Team (22:28) Absolutely, and that goes hand in hand with what I was going to say. And so it was like literally perfect timing. you provide the template and something, there's a lot in there, but something that I wanted to pull out that goes exactly with what just said. one, number one, before I even say that, I think there are words in our dictionary that have an imposed ⁓ emotion attached to them that's completely wrong. The Dental A Team (22:54) you The Dental A Team (22:54) Anything can be good, anything can be bad. And I think that everyone, every person, every human, every animal has to have some sort of selfishness within their personality order for us to survive. Like for you to not be selfish and be like, no, like you're just going to give away everything. Like that doesn't work. You had to be selfish and be like, no, why did I create my company? Like, yes, this is our company and we all share it with you. But at the end of the day, it's your company. Why did you do it? And without that, we can't share it. And so something I was going to say is, and what you said, Kiera, was that the words that I said made you realize that you, or it sounded like I was saying, which I was, that you had lost yourself, right? And I don't shy away from those statements because it's incredibly important to me. If you lose yourself, like what are we even here for? And the whole concept of this The Dental A Team (23:40) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (23:53) podcast today that why, right? If the why doesn't tie back to your personal life, why are you here? Like, what are you doing? It is not 1950s anymore where we are just like working to work and that's our lives. Like something shifted in the last, especially five years, but the last 10 years and we've really come to understand that work is to satisfy and project our personal lives so that we can be The Dental A Team (24:00) I agree. I agree. Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (24:20) the best we possibly can with the time that we have here on earth. So if your why cannot tie back to your business making your personal life incredible, or for me, I work so that I can have a fantastic personal life. I love you, Kiera, but I don't work. If you didn't pay me, I wouldn't be here. Right? Yes. The Dental A Team (24:39) don't blame you. I don't blame you. You're here for life. The Dental A Team (24:41) I would still be friends with you. I'll still podcast with you. But if I'm not able to support my family in the best ways that I know how by being a fantastic human by the time I get done with my work, by supporting us financially, and by providing my kid the vision of what work can be that I want him to have, what am I even doing? So if you can't, if your why isn't so important to you that it would break something inside of you personally, if you didn't hit that why, then you haven't nailed your way. The Dental A Team (25:12) I agree. And Tiff, I'm so glad you said that because I think there was a shift of working for the sake of working. And I, I like, this is a good, mean, I feel like I'm like unraveling like all of my layers right now. Like I'm all right. Okay. Let's like get really to the core of it. So thank you, Tiff, for pulling that out. Again, I knew I needed someone else on this, especially you. I knew I had to have the right person on this podcast to pull out what I really wanted to invoke in this podcast. I needed to one get more beyond myself. Like you said, it has to be something where this is fulfillment for your life. And I had this aha moment where I'm like, hold on, this business was built to serve my life, not my life serving the business. And I think that that was a clutch moment for me to realize one coming back home to why we're doing this to building a template, three, figuring out like the business is serving our life, not the other way around. And then doing that for the team. ⁓ I think that there was not, think I know. We're not going to sugarcoat. I was really tricky for a minute. If like it was, I remember you being like, I'm not working all the time. I was like, work already. And we realized we were going from this hourly checkmark to a results focus. And that was such a mindset shift. was a culture shift as a company. It did feel like we were taking off like an old costume and putting on the new current. Um, but that's, think what human beings were here. We are human beings. We're not human doers. The Dental A Team (26:19) Yeah. The Dental A Team (26:37) And I think, like you said, it's got to be serving that. And I think for me as a business owner, as a CEO, as a friend, as a human, to realize that the business can do both, it doesn't have to be one or the other, I think is like probably the magic space right now. So when I'm like, what am I working for? I'm working to like change Dennis lives, of course, to make this huge positive impact. I'm also working to make sure that team that works for me has these incredible lives as well. Tiff, also said to me, like, Kiera, we want your life. And I was like, wow. That's such like a comment that I'm so grateful for. And I was like, great, how can we create that? Like, how can we build? Like, what are the things that I have that you want that we can then build? Like those now are just conversations and creative playgrounds. And that's, think the magic of business is business is able to fulfill wise, fulfill magic, fulfill dreams and make them realities. And to me, that is the magic of being a business owner. So I think again, what is that? Why? And like you said, Tiff, like I hope people can even hear like I get giddy and excited. I'm like, all right, let's go make some dreams come true. Like for dentists, for team members, for myself, like for all of us, how can we do that? That's what lights me up. And your why will be your own. But like you said, Tiff, if you don't have that solid, that sled pole is going to hurt. That sled push is going to kill. And you're going to just give up because you don't have that fire inside that truly is meant to drive you forward. The Dental A Team (27:56) Yeah, I agree. I have to give kudos and a statement to a doctor that I, he is so near and dear to my heart. I worked for him for a really long time and I watched him, one, I watched him work himself to death. Like I watched him work himself to where I'm like, are you even here today? Like you are so, you're not here. You are so dead. right now, but I also watched him reinvent himself. I watched him reinvent us, reinvent our company. I watched him lose himself. I lost myself, but at the core of everything, I know, Kiera, you ask me often how I'm so forward in my communication or that I make you have these conversations and... I learned so much from him. He was willing to be vulnerable with me ⁓ and have those conversations with me. He treated me as if I was a human on his team that he wanted there for a really long time. And he would pull me in for those hard conversations when he had to have them with me. I'm gonna get emotional. And it changed my perspective of people, communication, and business. The Dental A Team (29:01) you The Dental A Team (29:11) And he's still going, he's still got his business and I'm sure he's still turbulent as ever. We'll use that word. But kudos to him for taking, I was 19 when I started working for him and he just, took this girl and he just poured into her so that I could get to where I am. And so I think my point of that is doctors, owners, business owners, Be open to that. Don't be so shut down and scared to be seen as vulnerable or small or weak that your team can't reach you. He was always reachable. Even when he was angry, he'd be like, give me a second. I'm gonna shut my door. I'd hear him yell sometimes and I'm like, bro, get it together. But he was that. The Dental A Team (29:56) you You The Dental A Team (30:05) vulnerable with us, that it allowed us to have the clarity and it allowed me then, Kiera, to be able to have those conversations with you, to not be afraid just because you're my boss and the company owner. Like if I see something that could potentially damage the company, damage you as a human or damage us or damage my goals, I'm going to speak up and say something because it's for the good of everyone and he taught me that. So massive kudos to him and The Dental A Team (30:26) Right. you The Dental A Team (30:33) It was a wild ride. will never, never not admit that, but I, there's a lot of good that came out of it. And I truly believe that my communication with business owners comes from him being vulnerable. So doctors just don't forget that. Like you're not weak. You're actually stronger by allowing your team to help support you. The Dental A Team (30:54) And I am grateful for your doctor too. ⁓ I'm grateful for the person that he helped you develop into. And I definitely believe that people are here on both sides. I think as business owners, we have to feel like we're here to provide all these things. But I think the flip is also true that if we allow ourselves to see that our team is also here to provide for us too. I think it's like parents with children and they say they learn so much from their children when it's feels oftentimes the reverse that you're here to support them, but they're here truly building and supporting you. So tip, I love that. And I really hope doctors heard that. And I also hope team members heard that of speak up. like you said, Tiff, our team helps me clear the fog. Like when they call me out, they tell me all the time, like, Hey, when you like shift your hair like that, we know you're stressed out when care, Tiff, even say, you're like, here's got those eyes up. She's got to move and she does not have time for this. Those are good pieces. They're like silly, but they helped me clear the fog. They helped me see more clearly. ⁓ and I think that there's very few people that are willing to have those conversations. So when you're willing to have, and you have team members like that, cherish them, love them, pour into them. And if you don't have people that are quite there yet, pour into them too, because you never know. Like, again, it's a, it's a give take relationship. And I think when we see it, when you stop being the hero of your business as a business owner and you allow the entire team to be the hero, you're a guide. it's a give take. It's a, it's we're equal ground. We're here to serve. We're here to be that I think is where magic is. And that to me, like just saying that that's a big part of the why of like what I'm freaking working for. ⁓ for myself and for our other people, it's free. It's here for life. So I hope, don't know, Tiff, that was just a beautiful podcast and this is going to be one I hope people listen to over and over again. And just remember like, you can get lost. You need team members. ⁓ but Like you said, Tiffanie kept pointing to our hearts. Like I think let's go back to our little like summit, like drawing our human beings over here. Like I think the why comes from your soul. I think it comes from your heart. I think it's there. It's innate within you. And sometimes you just need to come back home to you to find it again and to have people around you and to support you on that journey. I mean, my team saw me go through some hard times and it feels so like, I don't know. It's like. The Dental A Team (32:49) you The Dental A Team (33:09) I'm not even a mask and it feels like de-masculating and I'm not even a man. Like I feel like I just lost like everything that was like, like the almost like the armor, the, the false like safety net. I think it's also like failing and admitting that you don't know everything. You feel like a failure. I think those are all the things. ⁓ but like you said, Tiff, I think that there is actually so much strength because we don't make it worse than it is and we don't make it better than it is. We make it what it actually is. So we can actually build from there and create what's meant to be. The Dental A Team (33:37) Yep, I totally agree. The Dental A Team (33:39) Okay, with that, I hope you guys just take something from here. I don't think I've got a strong action item. think we usually hear for tactical. think it's more than anything. Like I guess the tactical is check your why, check to see why you're doing all this. What are you working for? What is that? Be open with your team, be vulnerable, set the vision, have the template, ⁓ do it with your team, get people around you that are bought into your vision that are with you, that are rowing with you. Team members don't forget the power that you play in this. And if we can help you, this is what I think. This to me is the core of Dental A Team. This conversation is what Tiff and I wanted this company to be. It's helping humans be humans. It's helping you realize that you don't have to be a robot. It's helping you have freedom to live life. ⁓ We say it's like life is our passion. Dentistry is our platform. And so I think it's pretty special to be able to share that with you in a space of dentistry that brings us all together. So Tiff, thanks for being in my life. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for the thoughts today. This one really was just ⁓ a super special podcast that I'm grateful we were able to do together. The Dental A Team (34:37) Me too, thanks for messaging and it was perfect timing. The Dental A Team (34:40) Of course and for all of you listening reach out if we can help you in any way Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and remember you're worth it your why is worth it your your purpose in this life has meaning and we need you you're super special exactly how you are and Do not lose that because people depend on you people need you to have that vision So reach out if we can help you and as always thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast
Jeremie Kubicek is a globally recognized speaker, author, and leadership expert who's helped shape some of the world's top organizational cultures. As co-founder of Giant Worldwide, he's dedicated to multiplying healthy influence, building trust-driven workplaces, and creating systems that combine peace and performance. Jeremie's the author or coauthor of several bestselling leadership books, including Making Your Leadership Come Alive, The 100X Leader, Five Voices, The Peace Index, and his latest release, The Voice Driven Leader. In this episode, Jeremie shares how he's built nine interconnected revenue streams—and why leaders should aim to multiply their impact across ventures by focusing on people, systems, and personality-driven leadership. On this episode we talk about: How Jeremie built nine businesses that complement each other under a single ecosystem. The difference between “diversified investments” and “diversified revenue.” Why some personalities thrive with multiple ventures while others need narrow focus. How he uses AI (and his own custom GPT) to evaluate market readiness before launching. The mindset and apprenticeship model he uses to train operators and step into the executive chair role. Top 3 Takeaways Think like a portfolio manager, not a hustler. You can grow wealth faster by building connected ventures with shared DNA, not random side hustles. Create people-first businesses. Knowing your team's personalities and leading them in their “language” accelerates both trust and productivity. Test before you invest. Use market-readiness testing—and a little AI help—to validate ideas before committing serious time or capital. Notable Quotes “I figured out how to diversify revenue, not just investments.” “I start businesses, but I don't run them. I build, apprentice, and multiply.” “If you speak the language of the people you lead, they'll fight for you.” Connect with Jeremie Kubicek: Website: jeremiekubicek.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️
I got a text the other night from my friend Erin letting me know that the year of the horse is in fact coming but it's ok to not be ready yet because we are still in the mysterious hang-time between the lessons of 2025 and the light of 2026.Whew.I'm ready not ready for the fire horse of 2026. Still have some stuff to get organized and work thru.I was talking to my GPT agent this weekend and we were having a conversation on how AI is going to change things for humans. Obviously, we should consider the source, but my GPT was pretty firm that the things that make humans, human is what's going to offer the greatest protection and antidote to everything AI:The ability to feel, the mess, the vices, the insistence on fixating on the past and the ability to imagine freely into the future. Being creative. Making the same mistakes more than once.This, in a nutshell is what makes work awesome (and terrible).In this episode we look back at 2025 at WORK. Launching Work Like A Girl, evolving to Substack, and a lot of conversations and ideas about failure, resilience, opportunity, creativity, perseverence, and a hope for new and better work - and a new and better you at work.If you've been listening along this year, this one closes the loop.This is Work. Get full access to WORK at erikaayersbadan.substack.com/subscribe
© 2020-2026 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
