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Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous! 1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now? 2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React. The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more! 4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what? 5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider. The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee. 6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but... 7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on. 7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app. I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess. 8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought. 10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much. 10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that. 11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite. 12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff. 13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database. 13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing. 14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition. 14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests. The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please? 16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns. 18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection. 19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it. 19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc. 20:09 – Panel. 20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package. 20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested? 21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach. 24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean? 24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time. 26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter? 28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools. 28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated. 28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the 29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide? 29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser. The guest continues with this topic. 30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them. 31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more. 31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers. 32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything. 33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about? 33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down? 36:06 – Guest. 38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production? 38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify! 39:14 – Chuck. 39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend... 40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend. I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too. 43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months? 43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this... 44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual. 45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing. The guest goes into further detail. 46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same. 48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the... 48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the tests. 50:28 – Guest: I am working mostly (right now) in backend. 50:40 – Chuck: Anything else? Picks! 50:57 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Node.js Puppeteer Cypress SeleniumHQ Article – Ideas.Ted.Com Book: Never Split the Difference Applitools Guest’s Blog Article about Cypress vs. Selenium Gil’s Twitter Gil’s Medium Gil’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee How Showing Vulnerability Helps Build a Stronger Team AJ Never Split the Difference Project - TeleBit Charles Monster Hunter International Metabase Gil Cat Zero The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous! 1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now? 2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React. The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more! 4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what? 5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider. The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee. 6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but... 7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on. 7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app. I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess. 8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought. 10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much. 10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that. 11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite. 12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff. 13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database. 13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing. 14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition. 14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests. The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please? 16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns. 18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection. 19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it. 19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc. 20:09 – Panel. 20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package. 20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested? 21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach. 24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean? 24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time. 26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter? 28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools. 28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated. 28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the 29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide? 29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser. The guest continues with this topic. 30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them. 31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more. 31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers. 32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything. 33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about? 33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down? 36:06 – Guest. 38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production? 38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify! 39:14 – Chuck. 39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend... 40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend. I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too. 43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months? 43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this... 44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual. 45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing. The guest goes into further detail. 46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same. 48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the... 48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the tests. 50:28 – Guest: I am working mostly (right now) in backend. 50:40 – Chuck: Anything else? Picks! 50:57 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Node.js Puppeteer Cypress SeleniumHQ Article – Ideas.Ted.Com Book: Never Split the Difference Applitools Guest’s Blog Article about Cypress vs. Selenium Gil’s Twitter Gil’s Medium Gil’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee How Showing Vulnerability Helps Build a Stronger Team AJ Never Split the Difference Project - TeleBit Charles Monster Hunter International Metabase Gil Cat Zero The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous! 1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now? 2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React. The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more! 4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what? 5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider. The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee. 6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but... 7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on. 7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app. I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess. 8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought. 10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much. 10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that. 11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite. 12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff. 13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database. 13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing. 14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition. 14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests. The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please? 16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns. 18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection. 19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it. 19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc. 20:09 – Panel. 20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package. 20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested? 21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach. 24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean? 24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time. 26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter? 28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools. 28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated. 28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the 29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide? 29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser. The guest continues with this topic. 30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them. 31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more. 31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers. 32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything. 33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about? 33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down? 36:06 – Guest. 38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production? 38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify! 39:14 – Chuck. 39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend... 40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend. I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too. 43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months? 43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this... 44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual. 45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing. The guest goes into further detail. 46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same. 48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the... 48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the tests. 50:28 – Guest: I am working mostly (right now) in backend. 50:40 – Chuck: Anything else? Picks! 50:57 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Node.js Puppeteer Cypress SeleniumHQ Article – Ideas.Ted.Com Book: Never Split the Difference Applitools Guest’s Blog Article about Cypress vs. Selenium Gil’s Twitter Gil’s Medium Gil’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee How Showing Vulnerability Helps Build a Stronger Team AJ Never Split the Difference Project - TeleBit Charles Monster Hunter International Metabase Gil Cat Zero The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind
Panel: Chris Fritz Eric Hatchet Divya Sasidharan Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Benjamin Hong In this episode, the panel talks with Benjamin Hong who is a Senior Fullstack Engineer at GitLab, Inc. who currently resides in the Washington D.C. metro area. Ben and the panel talk about Politico and the current projects that Ben is working on. The panelists talk about topics, such as Vue, Vuex, VuePress, Nuxt, among others. Check out today’s episode! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:32 – Panel: Hi! Welcome – our panel today is live at Park City, UT. 1:34 – Benjamin introduces himself. 1:41 – Panel: Politico is a well trafficked website and it’s well known. What are your thoughts about working on a well trafficked website? 2:22 – Guest. 2:44 – Panel: Why did you settle on Vue? 2:50 – Guest: ...I came onto the team and was passionate about helping. We built out the component types. I thought Vue was better suited for the team. 3:36 – Panel: That’s a large team – that’s a lot of people 3:45 – Guest: Yeah, at one time I was writing everything. A lot of people on the team right now didn’t know a lot of JavaScript – but having Vue helps everyone to move the project forward. 4:29 – Panel: They can write just HTML, etc. 4:38 – Guest: Yep, exactly. It helps with communication. 4:55 – Panel asks a question. 5:00 – Guest: I use an event bust. 5:20 – Chuck: Did you have to move from an event bust to Vuex and what was that like? 5:30 – Guest: We had to move into module-esque anyways. 5:42 – Panel: You probably have Vuex with modules and...? 5:54 – Guest: We are using your enterprise broiler plate! 6:05 – Panel: Yeah, every team uses their own patterns. What files would I see used within your team? 6:16 – Guest answers the question. 6:55 – Panel asks a question. 7:01 – Guest: We can keep with the recommended packages fairly well! 7:21 – Panel. 7:26 – Guest: Funny enough at London...we are starting to get a lot with our co-coverage. We have a hard time balancing with unit tests and...eventually we want to look at Cypress. 8:12 – Panel. 8:15 – Guest. 8:19 – Chuck. 8:38 – Panel: I always encourage people to test the unit tests. 9:00 – Chuck: As you adopted Vue what was it like to get buy-in from management. Usually they have a strong backend with Rails, and someone comes in and says let’s use X. How do you sell them on: we are going to use this new technology. 9:30 – Guest: We could really use the user-experience better, and also to offload things from the backend developers. Our desire was to control more things like animation and to specialize those things. That was my selling point. 10:32 – Chuck: I tend to do both on the apps that I’m working on. I told Chris that I was going to switch a lot of things to Vue – some of the things you said I am not interested in the backend b/c it’s too painful. 11:01 – Panel. 11:08 – Chuck: There are things that are really, really good on the backend, but... 11:18 – Panel. 11:24 – Panel: You get the benefits of rendering... 11:43 – Chuck: What are your challenges into Vue? 11:50 – Guest: It’s definitely the scale, because we were a team of 5 and now we are a team of 15. Also, the different time changes b/c we have some people who live in India. Getting that workflow and we are looking at STORYBOOK to help with that. 12:30 – Chuck: Every person you add doubles the complexity of the group. 12:40 – Panel: I think that is conservative! 12:49 – Chuck. 12:56 – Panel: I get to see Chuck in person so this is different! 13:09 – Panel: Challenge accepted! 13:18 – Panel: This is the roast! 13:25 – Panel: Are you working, Benjamin, on a component library? Are you working on that alongside your current project? How do you manage that/ 13:38 – Guest: Unfortunately, we have a lot of deadlines and everything is running in parallel! 14:00 – Panel: How do you implement expectations throughout your team? 14:13 – Panel. 14:16 – Guest: It’s for everyone to understand their own expectations and the team’s expectations. I have to be able to parse it out w/o giving them too much guidance. 15:20 – Panel. 15:25 – Guest: Yep! 15:30 – Panel: ...having to edit the same files and the same lines... 15:36 – Guest: We have been able to keep those in their own lanes! 15:44 – Panel: Yeah that’s no fun – I’ve been there! 15:53 – Chuck: You are working in the development branch – and then their thing breaks my thing, etc. 16:08 – Panel: You are doing dimensional travel! It’s almost like reorganizing a complete novel. 16:30 – Guest: You don’t want your work to drag on too long b/c you don’t want to poorly affect the other team members. 16:53 – Panel: Does that mean you use internal docs to help with the workflow? 17:03 – Guest: Yes, we use the common team board. 17:30 – Panel asks a question. 17:39 – Guest: Yes, that’s a challenge. I have setup an internal product called Politico Academy. 18:29 – Chuck: How do you fit into what Politico is doing? 18:45 – Guest: They are giving out cutting edge information regarding policies and that sort of thing. We have tools like compass to track your notes within the team and also bills. Politico Pro is like for lobbyists and those fees are very expensive. 19:23 – Panel: Do you have to create graphs and D3 and stuff like that? 19:35 – Guest: I am itching to do that and we haven’t really done that, yet. I would love to do that, though! 19:42 – Panel: Chris will be talking about that which will air on YouTube! 20:02 – Panel: Ben, you make decisions based on architecture – do the members of the team get to contribute to that or no? 20:27 – Guest: Yeah, I have a democratic approach. I want people to show their opinion, so that way they know that their voice is getting heard. I don’t make all the decisions, but I do give some guidelines. 21:11 – Chris: I like to time box it. I do the same thing, too. 21:49 – Chuck: Yeah someone would propose something to a new feature (or whatnot) and we would want to see if we want to explore it now or later. 21:55 – Panel goes back-and-forth. 23:26 – Panel: On that note- you want to make sure that each developer has submitted a pole request per day. What is universal in regards to coding practices, and code comments, and stuff like that and code style? 23:55 – Guest: We do PREMIER across the board right now. 24:55 – Panel asks a question. 25:08 – Guest: I like having more...if it can show WHY you did it a certain way. 25:33 – Panel: It’s good not to save the data. 25:40 – Chris: Sometimes a SQUASH can be helpful. 25:50 – Divya: I try to commit often and my work is a work in-progress. 26:08 – Chris. 26:13 – Chuck comments. 26:24 – Panel goes back-and-forth! 26:43 – Guest: They will write their code and then use Prettier and it will look terrifying b/c it’s like what did you just do. I want them to see the 2 lines they changed rather than the whole file. 27:13 – Panelist talks about Linting. 27:34 – Chuck. 27:39 – Chris: If it’s not the default then... 27:55 – Divya: When you manually setup your project you can run a prettier pre-commit. 28:00 – Chris: My pre-commits are much more thorough. 28:37 – Panel goes back-and-forth! 29:26 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 30:02 – Panel: Can you talk about VuePress, please? 30:06 – Guest: Yeah! The guest talks about VuePress in-detail! 31:21 – Chuck. 31:25 – Panel. 31:44 – Chuck: I am curious about this – what’s the difference between VuePress and Nuxt? 31:58 – Guest answers the question. 32:19 – Chris adds his comments into this topic (VuePress and Nuxt). 32:47 – Guest. 33:02 – Divya. 34:24 – Chuck: If they are fluent in English and native in another language and it’s easy to figure where to put everything. 34:41 – Chris: Yeah they have a clear path for to clear up any documentation potential problems. 35:04 – Chris: ...the core docs and the impending libraries and the smaller ones, too. 35:17 – Divya: When you are creating the docs and you are thinking about NTN it’s important to think about the English docs. They say that it’s best to think of the language if that doc was to be translated into another language. 35:50 – Chris: Definition: “A function that returns another function” = higher function. 36:19 – Chuck: We are running out of time, and let’s talk about user-scripts. You have co-organized a group in Washington D.C. I tell people to go to a group to help like Meetups. What do you recommend? 37:00 – Guest: A lot of it is to be that community leader and show-up. To figure out let’s go ahead and meet. I know a lot of people worry about the “venue,” but go to a public library or ask an office for space, that’s an option, too. 38:15 – Panel: We have these different Meetups and right now in my area we don’t have one for Vue. 38:37 – Guest: Yeah, I recommend just getting it going. 39:04 – Chris: Yeah, just forming a community. 39:16 – Chuck: D.C. is a large area, so I can see where the larger market it would be easier. But even for the smaller communities there can be 10 or so people but that’s a great start! 39:48 – Guest: Yeah, once it gets started it flows. 40:02 – Chuck: What are the topics then at these meetings? 40:05 – Guest: I like to help people to code, so that’s my inspiration. 40:50 – Divya: I help with the Chicago Meetup and tons of people sign-up but not a lot of people to show – that’s our challenge right now! How do you get people to actually GO! 41:44 – Guest: I tell people that it’s a free event and really the show up rate is about 30%. I let the people to know that there is a beginning section, too, that there is a safe place for them. I find that that is helpful. 42:44 – Chris: Yeah, even the language/vocabulary that you use can really deter people or make people feel accepted. 43:48 – Chuck: Let’s talk about the idea of ‘new developers.’ They would ask people for the topics that THEY wanted to talk about. 44:37 – Divya: From an organizer’s perspective... 46:10 – Chuck: If you want people to show-up to your Meetups just do this...a secret pattern! I did a talk about a block chain and we probably had 3x to 4x a better turnout. 46:55 – Panel. 47:00 – Divya: The one event that was really successful was having Evan and Chris come to Chicago. That event was eventually $25.00 and then when Evan couldn’t come the price dropped to $5.00. 48:00 – Panel goes back-and-forth. 48:22 – Chuck: Where can they find you? 48:30 – Guest: BenCodeZen! 48:40 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Graph QL VuePress Nuxt Meetup 1 Chicago Meetup for Fullstack JavaScript Ben’s LinkedIn Ben’s Website Ben’s Twitter DevChat TV Past Episode with Benjamin Hong (MJS 082) Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Divya Creator Summit Chris “Chuck” Take a break when traveling to conferences and such Vue.js in Action Eric Stackblitz Charles The One Thing Self Publishing School Ben Ted Talk by Elizabeth Gilbert Vue.js Meetups
Panel: Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Nate Hopkins Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Eric Oestrich In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Eric Oestrich who is a web developer who resides in Indianapolis, Indiana. He and the panel talk about ExVenture, Gossip, Cowboy, Raisin, Grapevine, and much more! Listen to today’s episode to hear all about it! Finally, check out Eric’s ElixirConf talk and his blog, too! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Charles introduces the panel. 1:14 – Nate talks about his background. 1:27 – Chuck: My first programming job I worked with Nate. Nate also works now with Eric Berry. We have a special guest and that is Eric Oestrich. Tell us who you are, please! 1:55 – Eric: I work for Smart Logic, LLC. We are a consultancy who has moved to Elixir for the last 2 years. 2:14 – Chuck: Tell us what ExVenture is? 2:46 – Eric: Late 80’s to mid-90’s it’s like a MUD tech space game. Eric goes into detail of what ExVenture is. 3:28 – Panel: Familiar with MUDS. 3:36 – Panel: Audience can’t tell that Eric isn’t an old guy. Eric – you aren’t an old gentleman – how did you get into it?! 4:02 – Eric: The concept has fascinated me. It’s pure game mechanics. In school I wrote things in Python and try to make it threaded. Never got it going. After that I wanted to do a MUD but not good enough in C and couldn’t get it working in Ruby neither. But one faithful day (a year ago) I got an echo and chat server and now we have a MUD. 5:02 – Panel: Why should you be interested? I will tell you why. ExVenture is an open source... I encourage everyone to dig into and play with it! It is a game (so that makes it more fun) but you are dealing with game mechanics. I am also curious where you wanted this to go? What made you say: I want to create this and make it open source? 6:37 – Eric: I like it and work has mostly played for it. It’s MIT because of that. Early in the project (between client work) it was a common thread and that’s why it’s open source. 7:27 – Panel: I ran into you at the conference and you were showing me... Talk about getting metrics out of your system, please? 8:20 – Eric answers the question. 9:09 – Panel: When people are trying to get metrics out of their system – what EVEN makes a good metric? 9:21- Eric: I am trying to figure that out myself, actually. I want to know how long it takes for someone to login? Is that someone trying to hack into my system? If you speak at a global channel or something else... Eric goes into more detail. Eric also mentions Prometheus. 10:31 – Panel: You mentioned: What would you want to see on a dashboard? 11:01 – Eric answers the question and mentions Prometheus EX. 12:19 – Panel: As you starting building this you were pulling libraries out of it and making them separate libraries. Are you pretty proud of GOSSIP? 12:37 – Eric: Yes! Gossip is based on web sockets and it’s a cowboy socket. Eric talks about Gossip. 13:10 – Panel: What other clients are you trying to support? 13:15 – Eric: There is a JavaScript client and Node-based game called... There is a bundle system for that. There is also a Python option. The one thing we haven’t done yet is a C client. That is important b/c most of the games that you could connect to are 25-30 years old. 14:26 – Panel asks a question. 14:34 – Eric: That is the C client we are waiting for. 14:43 – Panel: You talked at the conference (see the show notes) you talked about things you learned along the way. Can you talk about your process? What kind of bottlenecks and how did you resolve those issues? 15:10 – Eric answers the question. 16:44 – Panel: Did you run out of processes? 16:47 – Eric: The VM shut-off – it was just done. That was the first go-around. 19:27 – Eric: After the ElixirConf, I wanted to see how far I could push it. Eric continues. 19:51 – Panel: I want to identify some of these principles you just talked about. First, the major block was the gen server is a single process. 20:21 – Panel. 20:24 – Panel: I think that is a common mistake when people come to Elixir in the beginning stages. How did you solve it? 20:50 – Panelist answers the above question. 21:30 – Panel: That’s one of the big things. It’s an architectural issue. Second, you mentioned really LARGE messages. You were sending around really large messages. 22:20 – Eric: For every 100 players was a gigabyte of ram – it was a lot. And that was mostly b/c every copy...when a new character enters the room then that message gets sent out then it gets copied again, and... 23:08 – Panel. 23:24 – Panel: The third one you mentioned was around data base blocking or...? Can you talk about this one a little more, please? 23:33 – Eric answers the question. 24:02 – Panel. 24:30 – Eric: It was always saving...I tricked Echo into saving...There is a lot of things that could be better to save specifically faster. 24:52 – Panel: I think people would hit those 3 points eventually – there is a lot of value to that. 25:09 –Eric: Yes that was near the end of my ElixirConf talk and my blog. 25:23 – Panel. 25:33 – Eric: It came out in May and I figured out that I needed to learn how to cluster in Elixir. That’s what the ElixirConf was a bout from single node to multiple nodes. Eric continues. 28:38 – Panel: When you have a cluster – and I join – when I transfer from one room to another room, I could be passed off to another server or node? 29:01 – Eric: Whatever you mean by “being passed off.” Whatever server you land on that’s the one you will be on. The magic is that... 30:08 – Advertisement: Fresh Books! 31:15 – Panel: I am going through the code base now and I am excited. It’s going to help me get better at Elixir. 31:32 – Eric: That’s the point of ExVenture. 31:48 – Panel: You host a server so people can see what it’s about – and that’s Mid Mud, right? 32:09 – Eric: Yep, the first hour of you playing. There is a town crier, you request, and then combat monsters. Also, it is plugged into Gossip and you can talk to them. 32:44 – Eric: Yep, there you go: player logged-in! 32:55 – Panel: Maybe not b/c it will turn into a new podcast soon. 33:07 – Panel: What if I want to use Gossip, what is involved there? 33:16 – Eric: Gossip.Haus/docs – Go there! Set it up and start sending and receiving events. 34:40 – Panel: When I was trying to understand the Prometheus metrics it helped. And then in downloading it (as a tip), for me, it was easy to use the DOCKER instructions. 35:32 – Eric: Yep, that was done by a community member. 35:40 – Panel: Are you looking for people to contribute? 35:50 – Eric: Yep, I have a public Trello board. There are 2 tags. 36:12 – Panel: Sounds like you have people involved? 36:22 – Eric: Bunch of people came on after the ElixirConf. 36:33 – Panel: If people download it (another tip) in the SEEDS file you will find out the admin username and password. I guess that’s something you can add. Login: ADMIN and Password: PASSWORD. What I thought was fun (playing with it) in the admin screen I got a sense that it’s generic enough that I could create a space game. Like playing with sectors of space. Does that make sense? 37:42 – Eric: I don’t want it to be tied JUST to fantasy b/c that’s what MUD is. Everything should be good for historical/ fantasy/ etc. any genre that you want to do! 38:13 – Panel: I could see a HackFest and the company could create one for their business. You could have a lot of fun with it. 38:38 – Panel. 38:44 – Panel: Hidden things on their websites. 38:50 – Eric: Search TEXT ADVENTURE in Google Search. See show notes below. 39:24 – Panel: There is a whole subculture that people are interested in and I didn’t know that these people existed. I think that is interesting. 39:45 – Eric: There are tons of games out there that are 20+ years old! 39:55 – Panel: What is your favorite old school MUD game? 40:02 – Eric lists his favorite old school games! One of them is Achaea! 40:51 – Panel: I like the status bars are really cool. If you haven’t played it you have a health bar. Also you have these expiring times and it’s very cool – modern MUD. 41:22 – Eric. 42:00 – Panel: You came from a Ruby background – what was your transition to Elixir like for you? How did you come to Elixir? What was that like for you? 42:15 – Eric: Yeah some of my friends were into Elixir from a functional standpoint about 2 years ago. They were reading about Phoenix and such. They wanted to see how it was going to go. 43:06 – Panel: Try by fire. Coming from Ruby to Elixir – what some advice would you give the same person? 43:37 – Eric: It was less of a culture shock b/c Phoenix was still kind of “Railsy.” 44:35 – Panel: When I was first learning ERLANG, and telling them that it was a standard library. 44:59 – Eric: It’s using Cowboys Ranch. 45:19 – Eric: There are a number of people out there that they want people to run to SSH b/c it’s more secure. 45:46 – Eric: I guess if we are on this topic about secure... 46:40 – Chuck. 46:51 – Panel: I think there is a lot of value, Eric, and the lessons you’ve learned and the path you’ve gone down. If you are new to Elixir going to ExVenture is a great way to start. 47:20 – Eric. 47:35 – Panel: Just run the format and we can do it that way. I encourage people to download it and see what it’s like as a user, and play with it as an admin. We have a Meetup coming up this Thursday. Eric is coming in virtually into our Meetup group. 48:29 – Eric: Gossip is open source. Grapevine and Raisin – check these out, too, b/c they are open source, too. 48:58 – Panel: Where can people contact you? 49:05 – Eric: Twitter! GitHub! Mudcoders.com. 49:39 – Picks! 49:44 – Ad: Lootcrate.com Links: Ruby Elixir Elm Atom.io Flutter.io JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Erlang ExVenture Ex_Venture ExVenture’s Trello Board Prometheus Prometheus EX Gossip GitHub: Gossip 2018 – Conference Talk @ Elixir Conf with Eric Oestrich Eric’s Blog Libcluster Raft – GitHub.io – The Raft Consensus Algorithm pg2 MidMUD Gossip/Haus/Docs ExVenture: Docker Environment Google: Text Adventure Achaea Cowboy SSH Grapevine Raisin ASDF Plugins Eric’s GitHub Eric’s Twitter Brooklyn Nine-Nine Elm Packages MetaBase Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Eric MUD Coders Elixir LS Mark ASDF Library Josh Brooklyn Nine-Nine Elm UI Nate Mentoring and Paired Programming Metabase Charles Monster Hunters International
Panel: Chris Fritz Eric Hatchet Divya Sasidharan Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Benjamin Hong In this episode, the panel talks with Benjamin Hong who is a Senior Fullstack Engineer at GitLab, Inc. who currently resides in the Washington D.C. metro area. Ben and the panel talk about Politico and the current projects that Ben is working on. The panelists talk about topics, such as Vue, Vuex, VuePress, Nuxt, among others. Check out today’s episode! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:32 – Panel: Hi! Welcome – our panel today is live at Park City, UT. 1:34 – Benjamin introduces himself. 1:41 – Panel: Politico is a well trafficked website and it’s well known. What are your thoughts about working on a well trafficked website? 2:22 – Guest. 2:44 – Panel: Why did you settle on Vue? 2:50 – Guest: ...I came onto the team and was passionate about helping. We built out the component types. I thought Vue was better suited for the team. 3:36 – Panel: That’s a large team – that’s a lot of people 3:45 – Guest: Yeah, at one time I was writing everything. A lot of people on the team right now didn’t know a lot of JavaScript – but having Vue helps everyone to move the project forward. 4:29 – Panel: They can write just HTML, etc. 4:38 – Guest: Yep, exactly. It helps with communication. 4:55 – Panel asks a question. 5:00 – Guest: I use an event bust. 5:20 – Chuck: Did you have to move from an event bust to Vuex and what was that like? 5:30 – Guest: We had to move into module-esque anyways. 5:42 – Panel: You probably have Vuex with modules and...? 5:54 – Guest: We are using your enterprise broiler plate! 6:05 – Panel: Yeah, every team uses their own patterns. What files would I see used within your team? 6:16 – Guest answers the question. 6:55 – Panel asks a question. 7:01 – Guest: We can keep with the recommended packages fairly well! 7:21 – Panel. 7:26 – Guest: Funny enough at London...we are starting to get a lot with our co-coverage. We have a hard time balancing with unit tests and...eventually we want to look at Cypress. 8:12 – Panel. 8:15 – Guest. 8:19 – Chuck. 8:38 – Panel: I always encourage people to test the unit tests. 9:00 – Chuck: As you adopted Vue what was it like to get buy-in from management. Usually they have a strong backend with Rails, and someone comes in and says let’s use X. How do you sell them on: we are going to use this new technology. 9:30 – Guest: We could really use the user-experience better, and also to offload things from the backend developers. Our desire was to control more things like animation and to specialize those things. That was my selling point. 10:32 – Chuck: I tend to do both on the apps that I’m working on. I told Chris that I was going to switch a lot of things to Vue – some of the things you said I am not interested in the backend b/c it’s too painful. 11:01 – Panel. 11:08 – Chuck: There are things that are really, really good on the backend, but... 11:18 – Panel. 11:24 – Panel: You get the benefits of rendering... 11:43 – Chuck: What are your challenges into Vue? 11:50 – Guest: It’s definitely the scale, because we were a team of 5 and now we are a team of 15. Also, the different time changes b/c we have some people who live in India. Getting that workflow and we are looking at STORYBOOK to help with that. 12:30 – Chuck: Every person you add doubles the complexity of the group. 12:40 – Panel: I think that is conservative! 12:49 – Chuck. 12:56 – Panel: I get to see Chuck in person so this is different! 13:09 – Panel: Challenge accepted! 13:18 – Panel: This is the roast! 13:25 – Panel: Are you working, Benjamin, on a component library? Are you working on that alongside your current project? How do you manage that/ 13:38 – Guest: Unfortunately, we have a lot of deadlines and everything is running in parallel! 14:00 – Panel: How do you implement expectations throughout your team? 14:13 – Panel. 14:16 – Guest: It’s for everyone to understand their own expectations and the team’s expectations. I have to be able to parse it out w/o giving them too much guidance. 15:20 – Panel. 15:25 – Guest: Yep! 15:30 – Panel: ...having to edit the same files and the same lines... 15:36 – Guest: We have been able to keep those in their own lanes! 15:44 – Panel: Yeah that’s no fun – I’ve been there! 15:53 – Chuck: You are working in the development branch – and then their thing breaks my thing, etc. 16:08 – Panel: You are doing dimensional travel! It’s almost like reorganizing a complete novel. 16:30 – Guest: You don’t want your work to drag on too long b/c you don’t want to poorly affect the other team members. 16:53 – Panel: Does that mean you use internal docs to help with the workflow? 17:03 – Guest: Yes, we use the common team board. 17:30 – Panel asks a question. 17:39 – Guest: Yes, that’s a challenge. I have setup an internal product called Politico Academy. 18:29 – Chuck: How do you fit into what Politico is doing? 18:45 – Guest: They are giving out cutting edge information regarding policies and that sort of thing. We have tools like compass to track your notes within the team and also bills. Politico Pro is like for lobbyists and those fees are very expensive. 19:23 – Panel: Do you have to create graphs and D3 and stuff like that? 19:35 – Guest: I am itching to do that and we haven’t really done that, yet. I would love to do that, though! 19:42 – Panel: Chris will be talking about that which will air on YouTube! 20:02 – Panel: Ben, you make decisions based on architecture – do the members of the team get to contribute to that or no? 20:27 – Guest: Yeah, I have a democratic approach. I want people to show their opinion, so that way they know that their voice is getting heard. I don’t make all the decisions, but I do give some guidelines. 21:11 – Chris: I like to time box it. I do the same thing, too. 21:49 – Chuck: Yeah someone would propose something to a new feature (or whatnot) and we would want to see if we want to explore it now or later. 21:55 – Panel goes back-and-forth. 23:26 – Panel: On that note- you want to make sure that each developer has submitted a pole request per day. What is universal in regards to coding practices, and code comments, and stuff like that and code style? 23:55 – Guest: We do PREMIER across the board right now. 24:55 – Panel asks a question. 25:08 – Guest: I like having more...if it can show WHY you did it a certain way. 25:33 – Panel: It’s good not to save the data. 25:40 – Chris: Sometimes a SQUASH can be helpful. 25:50 – Divya: I try to commit often and my work is a work in-progress. 26:08 – Chris. 26:13 – Chuck comments. 26:24 – Panel goes back-and-forth! 26:43 – Guest: They will write their code and then use Prettier and it will look terrifying b/c it’s like what did you just do. I want them to see the 2 lines they changed rather than the whole file. 27:13 – Panelist talks about Linting. 27:34 – Chuck. 27:39 – Chris: If it’s not the default then... 27:55 – Divya: When you manually setup your project you can run a prettier pre-commit. 28:00 – Chris: My pre-commits are much more thorough. 28:37 – Panel goes back-and-forth! 29:26 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 30:02 – Panel: Can you talk about VuePress, please? 30:06 – Guest: Yeah! The guest talks about VuePress in-detail! 31:21 – Chuck. 31:25 – Panel. 31:44 – Chuck: I am curious about this – what’s the difference between VuePress and Nuxt? 31:58 – Guest answers the question. 32:19 – Chris adds his comments into this topic (VuePress and Nuxt). 32:47 – Guest. 33:02 – Divya. 34:24 – Chuck: If they are fluent in English and native in another language and it’s easy to figure where to put everything. 34:41 – Chris: Yeah they have a clear path for to clear up any documentation potential problems. 35:04 – Chris: ...the core docs and the impending libraries and the smaller ones, too. 35:17 – Divya: When you are creating the docs and you are thinking about NTN it’s important to think about the English docs. They say that it’s best to think of the language if that doc was to be translated into another language. 35:50 – Chris: Definition: “A function that returns another function” = higher function. 36:19 – Chuck: We are running out of time, and let’s talk about user-scripts. You have co-organized a group in Washington D.C. I tell people to go to a group to help like Meetups. What do you recommend? 37:00 – Guest: A lot of it is to be that community leader and show-up. To figure out let’s go ahead and meet. I know a lot of people worry about the “venue,” but go to a public library or ask an office for space, that’s an option, too. 38:15 – Panel: We have these different Meetups and right now in my area we don’t have one for Vue. 38:37 – Guest: Yeah, I recommend just getting it going. 39:04 – Chris: Yeah, just forming a community. 39:16 – Chuck: D.C. is a large area, so I can see where the larger market it would be easier. But even for the smaller communities there can be 10 or so people but that’s a great start! 39:48 – Guest: Yeah, once it gets started it flows. 40:02 – Chuck: What are the topics then at these meetings? 40:05 – Guest: I like to help people to code, so that’s my inspiration. 40:50 – Divya: I help with the Chicago Meetup and tons of people sign-up but not a lot of people to show – that’s our challenge right now! How do you get people to actually GO! 41:44 – Guest: I tell people that it’s a free event and really the show up rate is about 30%. I let the people to know that there is a beginning section, too, that there is a safe place for them. I find that that is helpful. 42:44 – Chris: Yeah, even the language/vocabulary that you use can really deter people or make people feel accepted. 43:48 – Chuck: Let’s talk about the idea of ‘new developers.’ They would ask people for the topics that THEY wanted to talk about. 44:37 – Divya: From an organizer’s perspective... 46:10 – Chuck: If you want people to show-up to your Meetups just do this...a secret pattern! I did a talk about a block chain and we probably had 3x to 4x a better turnout. 46:55 – Panel. 47:00 – Divya: The one event that was really successful was having Evan and Chris come to Chicago. That event was eventually $25.00 and then when Evan couldn’t come the price dropped to $5.00. 48:00 – Panel goes back-and-forth. 48:22 – Chuck: Where can they find you? 48:30 – Guest: BenCodeZen! 48:40 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Graph QL VuePress Nuxt Meetup 1 Chicago Meetup for Fullstack JavaScript Ben’s LinkedIn Ben’s Website Ben’s Twitter DevChat TV Past Episode with Benjamin Hong (MJS 082) Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Divya Creator Summit Chris “Chuck” Take a break when traveling to conferences and such Vue.js in Action Eric Stackblitz Charles The One Thing Self Publishing School Ben Ted Talk by Elizabeth Gilbert Vue.js Meetups
Panel: Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Nate Hopkins Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Eric Oestrich In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Eric Oestrich who is a web developer who resides in Indianapolis, Indiana. He and the panel talk about ExVenture, Gossip, Cowboy, Raisin, Grapevine, and much more! Listen to today’s episode to hear all about it! Finally, check out Eric’s ElixirConf talk and his blog, too! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Charles introduces the panel. 1:14 – Nate talks about his background. 1:27 – Chuck: My first programming job I worked with Nate. Nate also works now with Eric Berry. We have a special guest and that is Eric Oestrich. Tell us who you are, please! 1:55 – Eric: I work for Smart Logic, LLC. We are a consultancy who has moved to Elixir for the last 2 years. 2:14 – Chuck: Tell us what ExVenture is? 2:46 – Eric: Late 80’s to mid-90’s it’s like a MUD tech space game. Eric goes into detail of what ExVenture is. 3:28 – Panel: Familiar with MUDS. 3:36 – Panel: Audience can’t tell that Eric isn’t an old guy. Eric – you aren’t an old gentleman – how did you get into it?! 4:02 – Eric: The concept has fascinated me. It’s pure game mechanics. In school I wrote things in Python and try to make it threaded. Never got it going. After that I wanted to do a MUD but not good enough in C and couldn’t get it working in Ruby neither. But one faithful day (a year ago) I got an echo and chat server and now we have a MUD. 5:02 – Panel: Why should you be interested? I will tell you why. ExVenture is an open source... I encourage everyone to dig into and play with it! It is a game (so that makes it more fun) but you are dealing with game mechanics. I am also curious where you wanted this to go? What made you say: I want to create this and make it open source? 6:37 – Eric: I like it and work has mostly played for it. It’s MIT because of that. Early in the project (between client work) it was a common thread and that’s why it’s open source. 7:27 – Panel: I ran into you at the conference and you were showing me... Talk about getting metrics out of your system, please? 8:20 – Eric answers the question. 9:09 – Panel: When people are trying to get metrics out of their system – what EVEN makes a good metric? 9:21- Eric: I am trying to figure that out myself, actually. I want to know how long it takes for someone to login? Is that someone trying to hack into my system? If you speak at a global channel or something else... Eric goes into more detail. Eric also mentions Prometheus. 10:31 – Panel: You mentioned: What would you want to see on a dashboard? 11:01 – Eric answers the question and mentions Prometheus EX. 12:19 – Panel: As you starting building this you were pulling libraries out of it and making them separate libraries. Are you pretty proud of GOSSIP? 12:37 – Eric: Yes! Gossip is based on web sockets and it’s a cowboy socket. Eric talks about Gossip. 13:10 – Panel: What other clients are you trying to support? 13:15 – Eric: There is a JavaScript client and Node-based game called... There is a bundle system for that. There is also a Python option. The one thing we haven’t done yet is a C client. That is important b/c most of the games that you could connect to are 25-30 years old. 14:26 – Panel asks a question. 14:34 – Eric: That is the C client we are waiting for. 14:43 – Panel: You talked at the conference (see the show notes) you talked about things you learned along the way. Can you talk about your process? What kind of bottlenecks and how did you resolve those issues? 15:10 – Eric answers the question. 16:44 – Panel: Did you run out of processes? 16:47 – Eric: The VM shut-off – it was just done. That was the first go-around. 19:27 – Eric: After the ElixirConf, I wanted to see how far I could push it. Eric continues. 19:51 – Panel: I want to identify some of these principles you just talked about. First, the major block was the gen server is a single process. 20:21 – Panel. 20:24 – Panel: I think that is a common mistake when people come to Elixir in the beginning stages. How did you solve it? 20:50 – Panelist answers the above question. 21:30 – Panel: That’s one of the big things. It’s an architectural issue. Second, you mentioned really LARGE messages. You were sending around really large messages. 22:20 – Eric: For every 100 players was a gigabyte of ram – it was a lot. And that was mostly b/c every copy...when a new character enters the room then that message gets sent out then it gets copied again, and... 23:08 – Panel. 23:24 – Panel: The third one you mentioned was around data base blocking or...? Can you talk about this one a little more, please? 23:33 – Eric answers the question. 24:02 – Panel. 24:30 – Eric: It was always saving...I tricked Echo into saving...There is a lot of things that could be better to save specifically faster. 24:52 – Panel: I think people would hit those 3 points eventually – there is a lot of value to that. 25:09 –Eric: Yes that was near the end of my ElixirConf talk and my blog. 25:23 – Panel. 25:33 – Eric: It came out in May and I figured out that I needed to learn how to cluster in Elixir. That’s what the ElixirConf was a bout from single node to multiple nodes. Eric continues. 28:38 – Panel: When you have a cluster – and I join – when I transfer from one room to another room, I could be passed off to another server or node? 29:01 – Eric: Whatever you mean by “being passed off.” Whatever server you land on that’s the one you will be on. The magic is that... 30:08 – Advertisement: Fresh Books! 31:15 – Panel: I am going through the code base now and I am excited. It’s going to help me get better at Elixir. 31:32 – Eric: That’s the point of ExVenture. 31:48 – Panel: You host a server so people can see what it’s about – and that’s Mid Mud, right? 32:09 – Eric: Yep, the first hour of you playing. There is a town crier, you request, and then combat monsters. Also, it is plugged into Gossip and you can talk to them. 32:44 – Eric: Yep, there you go: player logged-in! 32:55 – Panel: Maybe not b/c it will turn into a new podcast soon. 33:07 – Panel: What if I want to use Gossip, what is involved there? 33:16 – Eric: Gossip.Haus/docs – Go there! Set it up and start sending and receiving events. 34:40 – Panel: When I was trying to understand the Prometheus metrics it helped. And then in downloading it (as a tip), for me, it was easy to use the DOCKER instructions. 35:32 – Eric: Yep, that was done by a community member. 35:40 – Panel: Are you looking for people to contribute? 35:50 – Eric: Yep, I have a public Trello board. There are 2 tags. 36:12 – Panel: Sounds like you have people involved? 36:22 – Eric: Bunch of people came on after the ElixirConf. 36:33 – Panel: If people download it (another tip) in the SEEDS file you will find out the admin username and password. I guess that’s something you can add. Login: ADMIN and Password: PASSWORD. What I thought was fun (playing with it) in the admin screen I got a sense that it’s generic enough that I could create a space game. Like playing with sectors of space. Does that make sense? 37:42 – Eric: I don’t want it to be tied JUST to fantasy b/c that’s what MUD is. Everything should be good for historical/ fantasy/ etc. any genre that you want to do! 38:13 – Panel: I could see a HackFest and the company could create one for their business. You could have a lot of fun with it. 38:38 – Panel. 38:44 – Panel: Hidden things on their websites. 38:50 – Eric: Search TEXT ADVENTURE in Google Search. See show notes below. 39:24 – Panel: There is a whole subculture that people are interested in and I didn’t know that these people existed. I think that is interesting. 39:45 – Eric: There are tons of games out there that are 20+ years old! 39:55 – Panel: What is your favorite old school MUD game? 40:02 – Eric lists his favorite old school games! One of them is Achaea! 40:51 – Panel: I like the status bars are really cool. If you haven’t played it you have a health bar. Also you have these expiring times and it’s very cool – modern MUD. 41:22 – Eric. 42:00 – Panel: You came from a Ruby background – what was your transition to Elixir like for you? How did you come to Elixir? What was that like for you? 42:15 – Eric: Yeah some of my friends were into Elixir from a functional standpoint about 2 years ago. They were reading about Phoenix and such. They wanted to see how it was going to go. 43:06 – Panel: Try by fire. Coming from Ruby to Elixir – what some advice would you give the same person? 43:37 – Eric: It was less of a culture shock b/c Phoenix was still kind of “Railsy.” 44:35 – Panel: When I was first learning ERLANG, and telling them that it was a standard library. 44:59 – Eric: It’s using Cowboys Ranch. 45:19 – Eric: There are a number of people out there that they want people to run to SSH b/c it’s more secure. 45:46 – Eric: I guess if we are on this topic about secure... 46:40 – Chuck. 46:51 – Panel: I think there is a lot of value, Eric, and the lessons you’ve learned and the path you’ve gone down. If you are new to Elixir going to ExVenture is a great way to start. 47:20 – Eric. 47:35 – Panel: Just run the format and we can do it that way. I encourage people to download it and see what it’s like as a user, and play with it as an admin. We have a Meetup coming up this Thursday. Eric is coming in virtually into our Meetup group. 48:29 – Eric: Gossip is open source. Grapevine and Raisin – check these out, too, b/c they are open source, too. 48:58 – Panel: Where can people contact you? 49:05 – Eric: Twitter! GitHub! Mudcoders.com. 49:39 – Picks! 49:44 – Ad: Lootcrate.com Links: Ruby Elixir Elm Atom.io Flutter.io JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Erlang ExVenture Ex_Venture ExVenture’s Trello Board Prometheus Prometheus EX Gossip GitHub: Gossip 2018 – Conference Talk @ Elixir Conf with Eric Oestrich Eric’s Blog Libcluster Raft – GitHub.io – The Raft Consensus Algorithm pg2 MidMUD Gossip/Haus/Docs ExVenture: Docker Environment Google: Text Adventure Achaea Cowboy SSH Grapevine Raisin ASDF Plugins Eric’s GitHub Eric’s Twitter Brooklyn Nine-Nine Elm Packages MetaBase Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Eric MUD Coders Elixir LS Mark ASDF Library Josh Brooklyn Nine-Nine Elm UI Nate Mentoring and Paired Programming Metabase Charles Monster Hunters International
Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Aaron Frost Christopher Ferdinandi Special Guests: Christopher Buecheler In this episode, the panel talks with Christopher Buecheler who is an author, blogger, web developer, and founder of CloseBrace. The panel and Christopher talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. With a technological world that is ever changing, it is important to always be learning within your field. Check out today’s episode to learn more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 1:08 – Aimee: Our guest is Christopher Buecheler – tell us about yourself and what you do. 1:22 – Guest: I run a site and help mid-career developers. I put out a weekly newsletter, too. 2:01 – Aimee: It says that you are a fan of “getting comfortable being uncomfortable”? 2:15 – Guest: I am a self-taught developer, so that means I am scrambling to learn new things all the time. You are often faced with learning new things. When I learned React I was dumped into it. The pain and the difficulty are necessary in order to improve. If you aren’t having that experience then you aren’t learning as much as you could be. 3:26 – Aimee: I borrow lessons that I learned from ice-skating to programming. 3:49 – Guest: I started running a few years ago for better health. It was exhausting and miserable at the start and wondered why I was doing it. Now I run 5 times a week, and there is always a level of being uncomfortable, but now it’s apart of the run. It’s an interesting comparison to coding. It’s this idea of pushing through. 5:01 – Aimee: If you are comfortable you probably aren’t growing that much. In our industry you always have to be learning because things change so much! 5:25 – Guest: Yes, exactly. If you are not careful you can miss opportunities. 6:33 – Panel: You have some ideas about frameworks and libraries – one thing that I am always anxious about is being able to make sense of “what are some new trends that I should pay attention to?” I remember interviewing with someone saying: this mobile thing is just a fad. I remember thinking that she is going to miss this opportunity. I am worried that I am going to be THAT guy. How do you figure out what sort of things you should / shouldn’t pay attention to? 7:47 – Guest: It is a super exhausting thing to keep up with – I agree. For me, a lot of what I pay attention to is the technology that has the backing of a multi-million dollar company then that shows that technology isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. The other thing I would look at is how ACTIVE is the community around it? 9:15 – Panel: Is there a strategic way to approach this? There is so many different directions that you can grow and push yourself within your career? Do you have any kinds of thoughts/tips on how you want your career to evolve? 10:00 – Guest: I am trying to always communicate better to my newsletter audience. Also, a good approach, too, is what are people hiring for? 11:06 – Aimee: Again, I would say: focus on learning. 11:30 – Panel: And I agree with Aimee – “learn it and learn it well!” 12:01 – Panel: I want to ask Chris – what is CloseBrace? 12:17 – Guest: I founded it in November 2016, and started work on it back in 2013. 14:20 – Panel: It was filled with a bunch of buzz worthy words/title. 14:32 – Guest continues his thoughts/comments on CloseBrace. 16:54 – Panel: How is the growth going? 17:00 – Guest: It is growing very well. I put out a massive, massive tutorial course – I wouldn’t necessarily advice that people do this b/c it can be overwhelming. However, growth this year I have focused on marketing. I haven’t shared numbers or anything but it’s increased 500%, and I am happy about it. 18:05 – Panel: Are you keeping in-house? 18:13 – Guest: I think it would be cool to expand, but now it is in-house. I don’t want to borrow Egg Head’s setup. I would love to cover MORE topics, though. 19:05 – Panel: You are only one person. 19:08 – Guest: If I can get the site creating more revenue than I can hire someone to do video editing, etc. 19:35 – Panel: I think you are overthinking it. 19:45 – Guest. 19:47 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:47 – Guest. 21:30 – Aimee: There are SO many resources out there right now. Where do you think you fit into this landscape? 21:44 – The landscape is cluttered, but I feel that I am different b/c of my thoroughness. I don’t always explain line by line, but I do say how and why things work. I think also is my VOICE. Not my radio voice, but the tone and the approach you take with it. 23:25 – Panel: I was trying to copy folks in the beginning of my career. And at some point I realized that I needed to find my own style. It always came down to the reasons WHY I am different rather than the similarities. Like, Chris, you have these quick hits on CloseBrace, but some people might feel like they don’t have the time to get through ALL of your content, because it’s a lot. For me, that’s what I love about your content. 24:46 – Christopher: Yeah, it was intentional. 25:36 – Panel: Good for you. 25:49 – Guest: I am super device agnostic: Android, Mac, PC, etc. I have a lot of people from India that are more Microsoft-base. 26:28 – Aimee: I think Egghead is pretty good about this...do you cover testing at all with these things that you are doing? It’s good to do a “Hello World” but most of these sites don’t get into MORE complex pieces. I think that’s where you can get into trouble. It’s nice to have some boiler point testing, too. 27:18 – Guest answers Aimee’s question. 28:43 – Aimee: We work with a consultancy and I asked them to write tests for the things that we work with. That’s the value of the testing. It’s the code that comes out. 29:10 – Panel: Can you explain this to me. Why do I need to write tests? It’s always working (my code) so why do I have to write a test? 29:39 – Guest: When working with AWS I was writing... 31:01 – Aimee: My biggest thing is that I have seen enough that the people don’t value testing are in a very bad place, and the people that value testing are in a good place. It even comes back to the customers, because the code gets so hard that you end up repeatedly releasing bugs. Customers will stop paying their bills if this happens too often for them. 33:00 – Panel: Aimee / Chris do you have a preferred tool? I have done testing before, but not as much as I should be doing. 33:25 – Aimee: I like JEST and PUPPETEER. 33:58 – Guest: I like JEST, too. 34:20 – Aimee: Let’s go to PICKS! 34:35 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue JEST Puppeteer Podflix Autojump Brutalist Web Design YouTube: Mac Miller Balloon Fiesta DocZ CloseBrace Christopher Buecheler’s Website Christopher Buecheler’s LinkedIn Christopher Buecheler’s GitHub Go Learn Things – Chris Ferdinandi Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Podflix Chris F. AutoJump Brutalist Web Design Mac Miller Tiny Desk Concert AJ Canada Dry with Lemonade Aaron ABQ Ballon Festival Joe Eames DND Recording Channel Christopher Docz South Reach Trilogy Jeff Vandermeer
Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Aaron Frost Christopher Ferdinandi Special Guests: Christopher Buecheler In this episode, the panel talks with Christopher Buecheler who is an author, blogger, web developer, and founder of CloseBrace. The panel and Christopher talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. With a technological world that is ever changing, it is important to always be learning within your field. Check out today’s episode to learn more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 1:08 – Aimee: Our guest is Christopher Buecheler – tell us about yourself and what you do. 1:22 – Guest: I run a site and help mid-career developers. I put out a weekly newsletter, too. 2:01 – Aimee: It says that you are a fan of “getting comfortable being uncomfortable”? 2:15 – Guest: I am a self-taught developer, so that means I am scrambling to learn new things all the time. You are often faced with learning new things. When I learned React I was dumped into it. The pain and the difficulty are necessary in order to improve. If you aren’t having that experience then you aren’t learning as much as you could be. 3:26 – Aimee: I borrow lessons that I learned from ice-skating to programming. 3:49 – Guest: I started running a few years ago for better health. It was exhausting and miserable at the start and wondered why I was doing it. Now I run 5 times a week, and there is always a level of being uncomfortable, but now it’s apart of the run. It’s an interesting comparison to coding. It’s this idea of pushing through. 5:01 – Aimee: If you are comfortable you probably aren’t growing that much. In our industry you always have to be learning because things change so much! 5:25 – Guest: Yes, exactly. If you are not careful you can miss opportunities. 6:33 – Panel: You have some ideas about frameworks and libraries – one thing that I am always anxious about is being able to make sense of “what are some new trends that I should pay attention to?” I remember interviewing with someone saying: this mobile thing is just a fad. I remember thinking that she is going to miss this opportunity. I am worried that I am going to be THAT guy. How do you figure out what sort of things you should / shouldn’t pay attention to? 7:47 – Guest: It is a super exhausting thing to keep up with – I agree. For me, a lot of what I pay attention to is the technology that has the backing of a multi-million dollar company then that shows that technology isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. The other thing I would look at is how ACTIVE is the community around it? 9:15 – Panel: Is there a strategic way to approach this? There is so many different directions that you can grow and push yourself within your career? Do you have any kinds of thoughts/tips on how you want your career to evolve? 10:00 – Guest: I am trying to always communicate better to my newsletter audience. Also, a good approach, too, is what are people hiring for? 11:06 – Aimee: Again, I would say: focus on learning. 11:30 – Panel: And I agree with Aimee – “learn it and learn it well!” 12:01 – Panel: I want to ask Chris – what is CloseBrace? 12:17 – Guest: I founded it in November 2016, and started work on it back in 2013. 14:20 – Panel: It was filled with a bunch of buzz worthy words/title. 14:32 – Guest continues his thoughts/comments on CloseBrace. 16:54 – Panel: How is the growth going? 17:00 – Guest: It is growing very well. I put out a massive, massive tutorial course – I wouldn’t necessarily advice that people do this b/c it can be overwhelming. However, growth this year I have focused on marketing. I haven’t shared numbers or anything but it’s increased 500%, and I am happy about it. 18:05 – Panel: Are you keeping in-house? 18:13 – Guest: I think it would be cool to expand, but now it is in-house. I don’t want to borrow Egg Head’s setup. I would love to cover MORE topics, though. 19:05 – Panel: You are only one person. 19:08 – Guest: If I can get the site creating more revenue than I can hire someone to do video editing, etc. 19:35 – Panel: I think you are overthinking it. 19:45 – Guest. 19:47 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:47 – Guest. 21:30 – Aimee: There are SO many resources out there right now. Where do you think you fit into this landscape? 21:44 – The landscape is cluttered, but I feel that I am different b/c of my thoroughness. I don’t always explain line by line, but I do say how and why things work. I think also is my VOICE. Not my radio voice, but the tone and the approach you take with it. 23:25 – Panel: I was trying to copy folks in the beginning of my career. And at some point I realized that I needed to find my own style. It always came down to the reasons WHY I am different rather than the similarities. Like, Chris, you have these quick hits on CloseBrace, but some people might feel like they don’t have the time to get through ALL of your content, because it’s a lot. For me, that’s what I love about your content. 24:46 – Christopher: Yeah, it was intentional. 25:36 – Panel: Good for you. 25:49 – Guest: I am super device agnostic: Android, Mac, PC, etc. I have a lot of people from India that are more Microsoft-base. 26:28 – Aimee: I think Egghead is pretty good about this...do you cover testing at all with these things that you are doing? It’s good to do a “Hello World” but most of these sites don’t get into MORE complex pieces. I think that’s where you can get into trouble. It’s nice to have some boiler point testing, too. 27:18 – Guest answers Aimee’s question. 28:43 – Aimee: We work with a consultancy and I asked them to write tests for the things that we work with. That’s the value of the testing. It’s the code that comes out. 29:10 – Panel: Can you explain this to me. Why do I need to write tests? It’s always working (my code) so why do I have to write a test? 29:39 – Guest: When working with AWS I was writing... 31:01 – Aimee: My biggest thing is that I have seen enough that the people don’t value testing are in a very bad place, and the people that value testing are in a good place. It even comes back to the customers, because the code gets so hard that you end up repeatedly releasing bugs. Customers will stop paying their bills if this happens too often for them. 33:00 – Panel: Aimee / Chris do you have a preferred tool? I have done testing before, but not as much as I should be doing. 33:25 – Aimee: I like JEST and PUPPETEER. 33:58 – Guest: I like JEST, too. 34:20 – Aimee: Let’s go to PICKS! 34:35 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue JEST Puppeteer Podflix Autojump Brutalist Web Design YouTube: Mac Miller Balloon Fiesta DocZ CloseBrace Christopher Buecheler’s Website Christopher Buecheler’s LinkedIn Christopher Buecheler’s GitHub Go Learn Things – Chris Ferdinandi Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Podflix Chris F. AutoJump Brutalist Web Design Mac Miller Tiny Desk Concert AJ Canada Dry with Lemonade Aaron ABQ Ballon Festival Joe Eames DND Recording Channel Christopher Docz South Reach Trilogy Jeff Vandermeer
Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Aaron Frost Christopher Ferdinandi Special Guests: Christopher Buecheler In this episode, the panel talks with Christopher Buecheler who is an author, blogger, web developer, and founder of CloseBrace. The panel and Christopher talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. With a technological world that is ever changing, it is important to always be learning within your field. Check out today’s episode to learn more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 1:08 – Aimee: Our guest is Christopher Buecheler – tell us about yourself and what you do. 1:22 – Guest: I run a site and help mid-career developers. I put out a weekly newsletter, too. 2:01 – Aimee: It says that you are a fan of “getting comfortable being uncomfortable”? 2:15 – Guest: I am a self-taught developer, so that means I am scrambling to learn new things all the time. You are often faced with learning new things. When I learned React I was dumped into it. The pain and the difficulty are necessary in order to improve. If you aren’t having that experience then you aren’t learning as much as you could be. 3:26 – Aimee: I borrow lessons that I learned from ice-skating to programming. 3:49 – Guest: I started running a few years ago for better health. It was exhausting and miserable at the start and wondered why I was doing it. Now I run 5 times a week, and there is always a level of being uncomfortable, but now it’s apart of the run. It’s an interesting comparison to coding. It’s this idea of pushing through. 5:01 – Aimee: If you are comfortable you probably aren’t growing that much. In our industry you always have to be learning because things change so much! 5:25 – Guest: Yes, exactly. If you are not careful you can miss opportunities. 6:33 – Panel: You have some ideas about frameworks and libraries – one thing that I am always anxious about is being able to make sense of “what are some new trends that I should pay attention to?” I remember interviewing with someone saying: this mobile thing is just a fad. I remember thinking that she is going to miss this opportunity. I am worried that I am going to be THAT guy. How do you figure out what sort of things you should / shouldn’t pay attention to? 7:47 – Guest: It is a super exhausting thing to keep up with – I agree. For me, a lot of what I pay attention to is the technology that has the backing of a multi-million dollar company then that shows that technology isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. The other thing I would look at is how ACTIVE is the community around it? 9:15 – Panel: Is there a strategic way to approach this? There is so many different directions that you can grow and push yourself within your career? Do you have any kinds of thoughts/tips on how you want your career to evolve? 10:00 – Guest: I am trying to always communicate better to my newsletter audience. Also, a good approach, too, is what are people hiring for? 11:06 – Aimee: Again, I would say: focus on learning. 11:30 – Panel: And I agree with Aimee – “learn it and learn it well!” 12:01 – Panel: I want to ask Chris – what is CloseBrace? 12:17 – Guest: I founded it in November 2016, and started work on it back in 2013. 14:20 – Panel: It was filled with a bunch of buzz worthy words/title. 14:32 – Guest continues his thoughts/comments on CloseBrace. 16:54 – Panel: How is the growth going? 17:00 – Guest: It is growing very well. I put out a massive, massive tutorial course – I wouldn’t necessarily advice that people do this b/c it can be overwhelming. However, growth this year I have focused on marketing. I haven’t shared numbers or anything but it’s increased 500%, and I am happy about it. 18:05 – Panel: Are you keeping in-house? 18:13 – Guest: I think it would be cool to expand, but now it is in-house. I don’t want to borrow Egg Head’s setup. I would love to cover MORE topics, though. 19:05 – Panel: You are only one person. 19:08 – Guest: If I can get the site creating more revenue than I can hire someone to do video editing, etc. 19:35 – Panel: I think you are overthinking it. 19:45 – Guest. 19:47 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:47 – Guest. 21:30 – Aimee: There are SO many resources out there right now. Where do you think you fit into this landscape? 21:44 – The landscape is cluttered, but I feel that I am different b/c of my thoroughness. I don’t always explain line by line, but I do say how and why things work. I think also is my VOICE. Not my radio voice, but the tone and the approach you take with it. 23:25 – Panel: I was trying to copy folks in the beginning of my career. And at some point I realized that I needed to find my own style. It always came down to the reasons WHY I am different rather than the similarities. Like, Chris, you have these quick hits on CloseBrace, but some people might feel like they don’t have the time to get through ALL of your content, because it’s a lot. For me, that’s what I love about your content. 24:46 – Christopher: Yeah, it was intentional. 25:36 – Panel: Good for you. 25:49 – Guest: I am super device agnostic: Android, Mac, PC, etc. I have a lot of people from India that are more Microsoft-base. 26:28 – Aimee: I think Egghead is pretty good about this...do you cover testing at all with these things that you are doing? It’s good to do a “Hello World” but most of these sites don’t get into MORE complex pieces. I think that’s where you can get into trouble. It’s nice to have some boiler point testing, too. 27:18 – Guest answers Aimee’s question. 28:43 – Aimee: We work with a consultancy and I asked them to write tests for the things that we work with. That’s the value of the testing. It’s the code that comes out. 29:10 – Panel: Can you explain this to me. Why do I need to write tests? It’s always working (my code) so why do I have to write a test? 29:39 – Guest: When working with AWS I was writing... 31:01 – Aimee: My biggest thing is that I have seen enough that the people don’t value testing are in a very bad place, and the people that value testing are in a good place. It even comes back to the customers, because the code gets so hard that you end up repeatedly releasing bugs. Customers will stop paying their bills if this happens too often for them. 33:00 – Panel: Aimee / Chris do you have a preferred tool? I have done testing before, but not as much as I should be doing. 33:25 – Aimee: I like JEST and PUPPETEER. 33:58 – Guest: I like JEST, too. 34:20 – Aimee: Let’s go to PICKS! 34:35 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue JEST Puppeteer Podflix Autojump Brutalist Web Design YouTube: Mac Miller Balloon Fiesta DocZ CloseBrace Christopher Buecheler’s Website Christopher Buecheler’s LinkedIn Christopher Buecheler’s GitHub Go Learn Things – Chris Ferdinandi Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Podflix Chris F. AutoJump Brutalist Web Design Mac Miller Tiny Desk Concert AJ Canada Dry with Lemonade Aaron ABQ Ballon Festival Joe Eames DND Recording Channel Christopher Docz South Reach Trilogy Jeff Vandermeer
Panel: Joe Eames John Papa Eric Dietrich Special Guest: Peter Mbanugo In this episode, the panel talks with Peter Mbanugo who is a software developer, tech writer, and maker of Hamoni Sync. He currently works with Field Intelligence, where he helps build logistic and supply chain apps. He also gets involved in design research and customer support for these products. He's also a contributor to Hoodie and a member of the Offline-First community. You can follow him on Twitter. Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 1:12 – Eric: You, Peter, write a really interesting article. How did you come to write that blog? Tell me about yourself. 1:29 – (Peter talks about his blog and his current projects.) 2:18 – Eric: Tell us about the blog! 2:25 – Peter: I talk about real-time synchronization and why you need it for data. You can use the websocket API and other applications. 3:29 – Panel: Let’s take a step back. It could be helpful to know: what problem were you trying to solve with real-time data? 4:14 – Panel: So multiple client browsers? You are editing in one browser and the data is showing up in the other? You mentioned websockets and others – could you talk about WHY you didn’t go with the other ones? 4:45 – (Peter answers the question.) 6:08 – Panel: So you created Hamoni Sync, and when did you start it? 6:20 – Peter: Yes, and I wrote it in March. I used real-time systems. 6:52 – Panel: What does it mean? 6:55 – (Peter answers.) 7:07 – Panel: Looks like it’s reasonably priced, too. 7:33 – Panel: Let me ask you this. How easy is it to get up and running using this on a Vue project? 7:45 – Peter. 8:34 – Panel: You have to install through your dashboard, then... 8:46 – Peter. 8:53 – Panel: You mentioned earlier that you shouldn’t websocket API right now? 9:04 – Peter: Not all users would have a browser that would support that. 9:39 – Panel: Hamoni handles all of that for you, which is nice. So it has a simple API to use. You started in March – is this your fulltime job...or? 10:08 – Peter: I started a new job 2 months ago, so now it’s part-time. 10:20 – Panel: You can use with any JavaScript library? 10:24 – Peter. 10:31 – Panel: Why did you do a tutorial in Vue and not in Angular or React? 10:37 – Peter: I do have one in React, and then... 10:54 – Panel: How do you like Vue so far? 10:55 – Peter. 11:15- Panel: The simplicity of Vue and you can take an older app and you can switch it over and not worry about jQuery and just go from there. Angular one days and instead of Angular 2+ or 6 now – Vue is an easy upgrade transition for sure. 11:47 – Peter. 11:51 – Panel: Walk us through how an app would work with this? 12:09 – Peter: When you connect you... 12:40 – Panel: What server is the data going to? 12:46 – Peter. 12:51 – Peter: I have a cloud service. 13:00 – Panel: How do they still get performance if there are a lot of people on at the same time? 13:06 – Peter. 13:17 – Panel: It handles all of the scaling? 13:23 – (Panelist walks through the process.) 13:44 – Peter: No scaling issues, yet. 14:05 – Peter: I haven’t launched, yet, through Product Hunt. 14:20 – Peter: The plan is to do that next month or middle of next month? 14:33 – Panel: Maybe once this podcast launches – that’s cool. What other apps can use real-time? Like a chat room is obvious when they are learning with socket IO. Is this beyond Vue? 15:07 – Peter: Yeah, in general it could be used for real-time chat applications and... 15:21 – Panel: Stock market updates? 15:28 – Peter: Yes. No, not animals. Maybe games for multi-player games. For chat room application. 18:45 – Panel: Demopuppy.com 19:11 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 20:00 – Peter: Related to the blog we have covered it well. Why you would use real-time and the different ways you can do it with websocket. 20:23 – Panel: You are in Nigeria? 20:24 – Peter: Yes. 20:27 – Panel: How is Vue.js in Nigeria – do you have Meetups? 20:44 – Peter: I think the tech scene is doing quite well. Mainly Angular and others use other frameworks. 22:08 – Panel: Conference and asking for people to contribute? (Yes.) That sounds great for an active community. Getting hard jobs in tech is hard but maybe hard in specific places. 22:39 – Peter: It is great the great one for React b/c of the popularity in React. React or Angular; one of the two. 23:12 – Panel: If you know your stuff you are good to go? 23:19 – Peter: Yes. Microsoft’s .NET is quite stable. 23:37 – Panel: You are starting a startup is that common in Nigeria? 23:49 – Peter: The startup is small actually. 24:37 – Panel: Are you in the capitol? (Yes.) There is a misconception there that people think you have to be in the California or bay area, and you can see that it’s not true. You can create cool things no matter where you are! 25:08 – Peter: It’s great to see the diversity. 25:14 – Panel: I think it’s cool what you are doing. I am glad you wrote an article. What is HospitalRun? 25:42 – Peter: It’s a hospital management system to work offline first. To use them in remote areas where there is no connectivity. 27:08 – Panel: It’s an opensource project – Hospital.io. You are more the maintainer of the frontend right? 28:05 – Peter: Yes. 28:11 – Panel: A lot of hospitals are using this and need contributors and if you want to have a real difference check it out. What do you do as the maintainer are you reviewing code requests? 28:40 – Peter. 28:56 – Panel: Ember.js? 29:00 – Peter: No, I am being dumped into Ember into the deep-end. 29:20 – Panel: I think we are going to go to our picks now? How can 29:30 – Peter: Twitter and email. Check out the show notes! 29:50 – Panel: Picks! 29:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Can I Use Websocket? Demopuppy.com HospitalRun.io What are the best tools for automating social media growth? Peter Mbanugo’s Twitter Peter Mbanugo’s Email: p.mbanugo@yahoo.com Peter’s blogs Vue Mastery Hoodie Meetups Hamoni Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Joe Dungeon and Dragons recordings coming soon on YouTube Blog - Good Bye Redux John Talk like a pirate day I Can Use Product Hunt Vue Mastery Peter Hoodie Vue Dev Tools Ego is the Enemy Eric Halt and Catch fire Vue.JS in Action
Panel: Joe Eames John Papa Eric Dietrich Special Guest: Peter Mbanugo In this episode, the panel talks with Peter Mbanugo who is a software developer, tech writer, and maker of Hamoni Sync. He currently works with Field Intelligence, where he helps build logistic and supply chain apps. He also gets involved in design research and customer support for these products. He's also a contributor to Hoodie and a member of the Offline-First community. You can follow him on Twitter. Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 1:12 – Eric: You, Peter, write a really interesting article. How did you come to write that blog? Tell me about yourself. 1:29 – (Peter talks about his blog and his current projects.) 2:18 – Eric: Tell us about the blog! 2:25 – Peter: I talk about real-time synchronization and why you need it for data. You can use the websocket API and other applications. 3:29 – Panel: Let’s take a step back. It could be helpful to know: what problem were you trying to solve with real-time data? 4:14 – Panel: So multiple client browsers? You are editing in one browser and the data is showing up in the other? You mentioned websockets and others – could you talk about WHY you didn’t go with the other ones? 4:45 – (Peter answers the question.) 6:08 – Panel: So you created Hamoni Sync, and when did you start it? 6:20 – Peter: Yes, and I wrote it in March. I used real-time systems. 6:52 – Panel: What does it mean? 6:55 – (Peter answers.) 7:07 – Panel: Looks like it’s reasonably priced, too. 7:33 – Panel: Let me ask you this. How easy is it to get up and running using this on a Vue project? 7:45 – Peter. 8:34 – Panel: You have to install through your dashboard, then... 8:46 – Peter. 8:53 – Panel: You mentioned earlier that you shouldn’t websocket API right now? 9:04 – Peter: Not all users would have a browser that would support that. 9:39 – Panel: Hamoni handles all of that for you, which is nice. So it has a simple API to use. You started in March – is this your fulltime job...or? 10:08 – Peter: I started a new job 2 months ago, so now it’s part-time. 10:20 – Panel: You can use with any JavaScript library? 10:24 – Peter. 10:31 – Panel: Why did you do a tutorial in Vue and not in Angular or React? 10:37 – Peter: I do have one in React, and then... 10:54 – Panel: How do you like Vue so far? 10:55 – Peter. 11:15- Panel: The simplicity of Vue and you can take an older app and you can switch it over and not worry about jQuery and just go from there. Angular one days and instead of Angular 2+ or 6 now – Vue is an easy upgrade transition for sure. 11:47 – Peter. 11:51 – Panel: Walk us through how an app would work with this? 12:09 – Peter: When you connect you... 12:40 – Panel: What server is the data going to? 12:46 – Peter. 12:51 – Peter: I have a cloud service. 13:00 – Panel: How do they still get performance if there are a lot of people on at the same time? 13:06 – Peter. 13:17 – Panel: It handles all of the scaling? 13:23 – (Panelist walks through the process.) 13:44 – Peter: No scaling issues, yet. 14:05 – Peter: I haven’t launched, yet, through Product Hunt. 14:20 – Peter: The plan is to do that next month or middle of next month? 14:33 – Panel: Maybe once this podcast launches – that’s cool. What other apps can use real-time? Like a chat room is obvious when they are learning with socket IO. Is this beyond Vue? 15:07 – Peter: Yeah, in general it could be used for real-time chat applications and... 15:21 – Panel: Stock market updates? 15:28 – Peter: Yes. No, not animals. Maybe games for multi-player games. For chat room application. 18:45 – Panel: Demopuppy.com 19:11 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 20:00 – Peter: Related to the blog we have covered it well. Why you would use real-time and the different ways you can do it with websocket. 20:23 – Panel: You are in Nigeria? 20:24 – Peter: Yes. 20:27 – Panel: How is Vue.js in Nigeria – do you have Meetups? 20:44 – Peter: I think the tech scene is doing quite well. Mainly Angular and others use other frameworks. 22:08 – Panel: Conference and asking for people to contribute? (Yes.) That sounds great for an active community. Getting hard jobs in tech is hard but maybe hard in specific places. 22:39 – Peter: It is great the great one for React b/c of the popularity in React. React or Angular; one of the two. 23:12 – Panel: If you know your stuff you are good to go? 23:19 – Peter: Yes. Microsoft’s .NET is quite stable. 23:37 – Panel: You are starting a startup is that common in Nigeria? 23:49 – Peter: The startup is small actually. 24:37 – Panel: Are you in the capitol? (Yes.) There is a misconception there that people think you have to be in the California or bay area, and you can see that it’s not true. You can create cool things no matter where you are! 25:08 – Peter: It’s great to see the diversity. 25:14 – Panel: I think it’s cool what you are doing. I am glad you wrote an article. What is HospitalRun? 25:42 – Peter: It’s a hospital management system to work offline first. To use them in remote areas where there is no connectivity. 27:08 – Panel: It’s an opensource project – Hospital.io. You are more the maintainer of the frontend right? 28:05 – Peter: Yes. 28:11 – Panel: A lot of hospitals are using this and need contributors and if you want to have a real difference check it out. What do you do as the maintainer are you reviewing code requests? 28:40 – Peter. 28:56 – Panel: Ember.js? 29:00 – Peter: No, I am being dumped into Ember into the deep-end. 29:20 – Panel: I think we are going to go to our picks now? How can 29:30 – Peter: Twitter and email. Check out the show notes! 29:50 – Panel: Picks! 29:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Can I Use Websocket? Demopuppy.com HospitalRun.io What are the best tools for automating social media growth? Peter Mbanugo’s Twitter Peter Mbanugo’s Email: p.mbanugo@yahoo.com Peter’s blogs Vue Mastery Hoodie Meetups Hamoni Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Joe Dungeon and Dragons recordings coming soon on YouTube Blog - Good Bye Redux John Talk like a pirate day I Can Use Product Hunt Vue Mastery Peter Hoodie Vue Dev Tools Ego is the Enemy Eric Halt and Catch fire Vue.JS in Action
Panel: Charles Max Wood Chris Fritz Divya Sasidharan Joe Eames John Papa Special Guest: Mike Hartington and Michael Tintiuc In this episode, the panel talks with Mike and Michael who are developers of Ionic. The panel and the guests talk about the ins-and-outs of the framework and talk about the pros and cons, too. Listen to today’s episode to hear how they discuss how Ionic is compatible with Vue and Angular. Finally, they talk about various topics, such as Cordova and Capacitor. Show Topics: 1:19 – Mike H. gives his background. He uses JavaScript every day. 1:30 – Michael T. gives his background. 1:53 – Chuck: Yes, today we are talking about Ionic. Why are we talking about that on a Vue Podcast? 2:08 – Let’s talk about what Ionic is first? 2:16 – Guest gives us the definition / background of what IONIC is. 2:32 – Guest: We have been tied to Angular (back in the day), which were Ember and jQuery bindings. We have come a far way. (He talks about web components.) Guest: We spent a year diving into web components and interweaving that with Angular. Now we are exploring other framework options. Now we are looking at Ionic with Vue. 3:34 – Chuck: I have played with Ionic, and it’s fairly to use. It’s exciting to see it come this way. I’m curious what does that look like b/c Angular and Vue aren’t the same. 4:10 – Guest explains and answers Chuck’s question. 4:50 – Chuck: Is it like using...under the hood? 4:58 – Guest: No. (He goes into detail.) 5:08 – I didn’t know that Stencil was built by that team. 5:19 – Guest: We built a 2nd project. 5:28 – Guest: There are 24 hours in a day. 5:39 – Panel: How is Ionic different than other options? 5:59 – Guest: It’s comparable to Frameworks 7. The components that you generate are all web0based. The component that you put in is the same for the web or Android. You can have 100% code reuse. 6:35 – Panel: It’s actual CSS? 6:41 – Guest: It’s full-blown CSS. If you wanted to do CSS animations then whatever the browser can support. 6:56 – Panel: Advantages or disadvantages? 7:04 – Guest: It’s easier to maintain. If you are making the next Photo Shop...(super heavy graphics) maybe web and web APIs aren’t the right way to go. 8:23 – You have access to less intense stuff? 8:34 – Guest: Yes. 8:39 – Question. 8:46 – Guest: 2 different approaches to this. 1 approach is CORDOVA and the other is CAPACITOR. 9:42 – Anything that has been built with Ionic? 9:47 – Guest: App called Untapped? Or the fitness app, SWORKIT! MarketWatch is another one. We have a whole showcase page that you can check out. 10:57 – Few apps out there that use Ionic for everything. 11:06 – Panel: I have done work with Ionic in the past. I found a sweet spot for business apps. There are things behind enterprise walls that customers can use but necessarily others. We have decided to go native and found that Ionic wasn’t a good fit. How do you feel? 11:51 – Guest: We do hear that a lot. People want to make a quick app and then... 12:20 – Panel: We chose Ionic in this project b/c we had to get it out in less than 6 weeks and the team knew JavaScript. Nobody knew Ionic besides me. After that, nothing broke and that’s a huge praise. 12:55 – Guest: I will take that good praise. 13:01 – Panel: How is it used with Vue? 13:07 – Guest: The Vue work that we’ve been doing...here are the core components. Recently we have been working with Michael and integration. They have been working on opensource. 13:45 – Michael: It was one of the first apps in Beta and Vue. It all started out as a passionate project for the opensource initiative. We wanted to build something new and use the emerging Vue.js. At the time I had no idea. It sounded cool, though, and at the time I wrote a small CUI program. I decided to make an app out of that. I wanted to meet the clients’ needs and the new tech. I went online and I saw some tutorials and I thought they had figured it out. I thought we were screwed but I guess not. Most of the things are out of the box. But the problem is that the routing was sketchy and it wouldn’t update the URL and it had to be delegated to the framework. The app is called BEEP. I cannot disclose what it means. Joking. I added to the state that everything... I tore through the screen to figure out how it works. Then it clicked. You have to extend the Vue’s official router...and then you’re done. You do a MPM install and then you call a couple of APIs and then you are done. Not even a single line of code. You have Ionic’s out of the box animations, and in our app we have a dancing... You spend a week and you’re done so I won’t use anything else. 17:35 – Panel: That’s an impressive turnaround! 17:42 – Panel: It just goes to show you that the code in Vue is so approachable to anyone. If you know a little bit of JavaScript then you know what is kind of going on. It’s pretty clean. Especially the Vue Router. 18:11 – Panel: Vue Core – some parts that can be hairy. 18:43 – We are component authors. We just need to know here is a component and here are some methods that it needs to know. 19:04 – Oh yeah, totally – I was talking more about... 19:14 – That’s what I thought for those 2 weeks cause I was looking at... 19:24 – Chuck: How do you get the Vue stuff in that and not the Angular? 19:41 – Guest answers the question. 20:20 – Panel: What was the hardest part to integrate? 20:28 – Michael: I wrote my own router. It was too much for me to write. I thought it was going to take me ages. So it took the longest to come to the idea to extending Vue’s router. I thought writing less code is the best. It took me 2 weeks to come to that conclusion. It was related to how... 22:21 – Question. 22:28 – Michael: You can use Vue router like if you used a different package. 22:40 – Panel: It is using the other router history or if you are using Hash API; since it’s all web technology? 23:03 – Guest: People don’t see the URL. 23:10 – We can teach them to pass... 23:25 – Panel: I have been interested in Ionic...when you sprinkle in some native stuff. Local databases. Getting that wasn’t too bad to work. The trick was testing that. 24:04 – Guest: A lot of manual work, unfortunately. It’s a lot of set-up work. You can do test functions but actually have that end-to-end test...can I make sure that is working correctly? A lot of manual testing. There are some cloud base platforms but I haven’t checked them out for an easier way. 25:06 – It was an Ionic issue it was... I think some of the Cloud services to better nowadays. 25:25 – Guest: It was painful to get it setup. Why do I need Clouds? 25:42 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 26:19 – Let’s talk about native features. How does one do that in Vue? 26:29 – Guest talks about Vue, Capacitor, and Cordova. 27:27 – Guest: Let’s talk back to the Beep app. Lots of this stuff is really easy, as Mike was saying. That’s what I like to do – being a both a developer and a library writer. 28:00 – Panel: Imagine Slash from Guns and Roses. 28:14 – Chuck: They get this idea that it’s Java so I can share. Chuck asks a question. 28:30 – Guest: All of it. You might want to change some of the UIs. If it looks good on mobile then you can adapt that as the main app and swap that out for the traditional designs and something else. 29:03 – Panel: I can’t just drop in the same dibs for my styles on my desktop and magically look like a mobile app. 29:23 – Guest: That’s where you are wrong. Ionic does this really well. We have painstakingly made this be a thing. The guest talks about screen width, layouts, and other topics. 30:10 – Guest: It’s the same code. 30:18 – Panelist gives a hypothetical situation for the guests. 30:36 – Guest answers the question. Guest: You will have to refactor from desktop to mobile. 31:54 – Chuck. 32:10 – Michael: It’s about continuity. 32:39 – Panel: Building a Vue app we can use the Ionic Vue project to reuse that work that you did to get that back button working. 32:59 – Michael: That’s the whole point. So you guys don’t even have to think about it. So you don’t have to fiddle around with bugs. 33:17 – Panelist. 33:22 – Michael. 33:33 – Mike: Eventually we want to do a full fledge Vue project they just install Ionic Vue and it will integrate the package. 33:55 – Michael: You use the UPI and that’s it. 34:03 – Panel: Beyond the hardcore 3D sky room games are there any other reasons why I wouldn’t want to use Ionic? 34:30 – Mike: I can’t think of anything. More important question is what is your team’s experience? I wouldn’t go to a bunch of C+ devs and say: Here ya go! I wouldn’t do that. You have to figure out the team that knows Java and they don’t know native, so they will be able to reuse those skills. 35:25 – Panel: I am wondering if there is anything technically impossible because of the way Ionic works? 36:00 – Guest: If there are, I haven’t seen it, yet. There are 20,000,000 downloads so far, so I don’t think so. 36:28 – Panel: When people report an issue what do they complain about? 36:39 – Guest: Being a couple pixels off (CSS), API signatures, etc. We are seeing fewer issues on the... People are looking at functionality issues. Whenever there are issues we take care of it right away. 37:26 – Panelist asks a question. 37:32 – It’s really done well. 37:46 – Panel: Are people able to drop that into an Ionic app? 38:09 – Guest: I haven’t tried that, yet. 38:20 – Panel: I have another question: How big are Ionic apps compared to other native apps. When you are using C+ or writing in Java or Swift. 39:09 – Guest: Twitter native was a couple 100 MB app. But the apps built with Ionic are 50 MB category. They can be small or full native apps with plugins. 40:00 – Panel: Does that mean that in some cases users will have to be connected to the Internet to use the app? 40:29 – Guest answers. 41:02 – Guest: I have some good news for you all. (Guest goes into detail.) 41:39 – Chuck. 41:44 – Guest: Another comparison is my app I use for my Home Goods store is 80 MB and it’s not doing a whole lot. 42:21 – Chuck: Let’s talk data for a minute. You can get large that way if you are DL files through the app – how do you manage memory? 42:42 – Guest: That is run by the browser run-time. Sometimes too good of a job. When you are doing production cases your... 43:27 – Panel: Do you have access to Sequel Light or do you have to use in-browser storage? 43:27 – Guest: Either one. 44:16 – Sequel Light. 44:20 – Guest. 44:24 – Within Ionic you can use Sequel Light there is a plugin. 44:55 – Panelist comments. 45:23 – Michael: I want to add some clarification. You can write your own propriety files... 45:23 – I like that it sounds like it’s different than other frameworks. Instead of there being a framework way to do it there is a lot of different pieces you can plugin to different parts that is agnostic to Ionic. 46:10 – Guest talks about batteries included. 46:42 – Panel: I really like that b/c it’s the Vue approach, too. 47:21 – The guest talks about transitions. 48:07 – Chuck: If I get stuck what is the community around it? 48:25 – Guest: It’s still early right now. If you went to the code base you wouldn’t see much. We are working on the code getting into the package. The good thing is that the way it’s structure, once their APIs are set then it’s the same through Angular and Vue. Once you have that API set it’s the same thing between those 3 things. 49:13 – Guest: Let me blow your minds guys... There are 7 controllers and 99% you would go to the Ionic site. The rest is identical and that’s the cool part. If you are coming from Angular you can reuse a lot of that knowledge. 50:00 – Panel: If they wanted to build an app right now what would you recommend as their first step? 50:16 – Guest: Ionic and Vue – check out the docs and the components overviews to see what the vanilla components are like. 50:52 – Panel: Is there an example repo? 50:59 – Guest: That would be the BEEP app. 51:08 – Panel: Vue specific docs? 51:18 – Guest: Files that you can drop into your browser. 51:27 – Panel: How soon is soon? 51:31 – Guest: Most likely within the next few months. Final touches that we want to complete. 52:11 – Chuck: What about testing? 52:17 – Guest: Same way you would test a Vue app there is nothing specific for Ionic (at least for the unit tests). If you are doing integration tests that would work the same way in typical Vue setup the only quirks are... 52:56 – Question: Does Ionic offer a collection of mocks for APIs? 53:11 – Guest: Yes, but just for Angular. It’s the only framework to support. This is a good call for community members to contribute. 53:35 – Panel: Would that be a new repo for Vue? 53:44 – Guest: Contribute to the Ionic Teams’ Main Repository and open an issue – and Ping me. 54:02 – Twitter names are given. 54:13 – Panel: How do they reach you? 54:19 – Michael: My whole name slurred together. 54:39 – Panel: Anything else they should know? 54:46 – Guest: Ping us and we will get you working with Ionic. 54:54 – Guest: The cookbook examples are a good starting part. We work very hard with Ionic. 56:01 – Panel: If they have questions where should they post them – chat, or form? 56:20 – Guest: Yes, ask away – any questions. 56:41 – Panel: How do you make money? 57:00 – Guest: If you want to build the Android portion, but you don’t want to take the time, we have a hosted platform that will handle that for you. Help you create your build so you don’t have to create all of the native stuff. 57:29 – Picks! 57:35 – Chuck: I have more stuff to play with – dang it! I am happy to outsource to you, Chris! 58:00 – Sarcasm. 58:26 – Chuck: Thank you for sharing your stories, Michael and Mike! 58:38 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Ionic – Vue Ionic Star Track Onsen UI Beep Have I been Pawned? Michael T.’s LinkedIn Mike H.’s Twitter Michael T.’s Twitter Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Picks: John NMP Library – DoteNV The 12 Factor App Divya Post by Sara S. Headspace – daily meditation Chris Library called CUID Library – MapBox Netflix – The Originals Chuck Friends of Scouting – good cause to give money Michael AIRBNB Lottie Steam Support Mike Blog Post – GitHub Integration Infinity War Joe Movie Peppermint Burn After Reading Goodbye Redux
Panel: Charles Max Wood Chris Fritz Divya Sasidharan Joe Eames John Papa Special Guest: Mike Hartington and Michael Tintiuc In this episode, the panel talks with Mike and Michael who are developers of Ionic. The panel and the guests talk about the ins-and-outs of the framework and talk about the pros and cons, too. Listen to today’s episode to hear how they discuss how Ionic is compatible with Vue and Angular. Finally, they talk about various topics, such as Cordova and Capacitor. Show Topics: 1:19 – Mike H. gives his background. He uses JavaScript every day. 1:30 – Michael T. gives his background. 1:53 – Chuck: Yes, today we are talking about Ionic. Why are we talking about that on a Vue Podcast? 2:08 – Let’s talk about what Ionic is first? 2:16 – Guest gives us the definition / background of what IONIC is. 2:32 – Guest: We have been tied to Angular (back in the day), which were Ember and jQuery bindings. We have come a far way. (He talks about web components.) Guest: We spent a year diving into web components and interweaving that with Angular. Now we are exploring other framework options. Now we are looking at Ionic with Vue. 3:34 – Chuck: I have played with Ionic, and it’s fairly to use. It’s exciting to see it come this way. I’m curious what does that look like b/c Angular and Vue aren’t the same. 4:10 – Guest explains and answers Chuck’s question. 4:50 – Chuck: Is it like using...under the hood? 4:58 – Guest: No. (He goes into detail.) 5:08 – I didn’t know that Stencil was built by that team. 5:19 – Guest: We built a 2nd project. 5:28 – Guest: There are 24 hours in a day. 5:39 – Panel: How is Ionic different than other options? 5:59 – Guest: It’s comparable to Frameworks 7. The components that you generate are all web0based. The component that you put in is the same for the web or Android. You can have 100% code reuse. 6:35 – Panel: It’s actual CSS? 6:41 – Guest: It’s full-blown CSS. If you wanted to do CSS animations then whatever the browser can support. 6:56 – Panel: Advantages or disadvantages? 7:04 – Guest: It’s easier to maintain. If you are making the next Photo Shop...(super heavy graphics) maybe web and web APIs aren’t the right way to go. 8:23 – You have access to less intense stuff? 8:34 – Guest: Yes. 8:39 – Question. 8:46 – Guest: 2 different approaches to this. 1 approach is CORDOVA and the other is CAPACITOR. 9:42 – Anything that has been built with Ionic? 9:47 – Guest: App called Untapped? Or the fitness app, SWORKIT! MarketWatch is another one. We have a whole showcase page that you can check out. 10:57 – Few apps out there that use Ionic for everything. 11:06 – Panel: I have done work with Ionic in the past. I found a sweet spot for business apps. There are things behind enterprise walls that customers can use but necessarily others. We have decided to go native and found that Ionic wasn’t a good fit. How do you feel? 11:51 – Guest: We do hear that a lot. People want to make a quick app and then... 12:20 – Panel: We chose Ionic in this project b/c we had to get it out in less than 6 weeks and the team knew JavaScript. Nobody knew Ionic besides me. After that, nothing broke and that’s a huge praise. 12:55 – Guest: I will take that good praise. 13:01 – Panel: How is it used with Vue? 13:07 – Guest: The Vue work that we’ve been doing...here are the core components. Recently we have been working with Michael and integration. They have been working on opensource. 13:45 – Michael: It was one of the first apps in Beta and Vue. It all started out as a passionate project for the opensource initiative. We wanted to build something new and use the emerging Vue.js. At the time I had no idea. It sounded cool, though, and at the time I wrote a small CUI program. I decided to make an app out of that. I wanted to meet the clients’ needs and the new tech. I went online and I saw some tutorials and I thought they had figured it out. I thought we were screwed but I guess not. Most of the things are out of the box. But the problem is that the routing was sketchy and it wouldn’t update the URL and it had to be delegated to the framework. The app is called BEEP. I cannot disclose what it means. Joking. I added to the state that everything... I tore through the screen to figure out how it works. Then it clicked. You have to extend the Vue’s official router...and then you’re done. You do a MPM install and then you call a couple of APIs and then you are done. Not even a single line of code. You have Ionic’s out of the box animations, and in our app we have a dancing... You spend a week and you’re done so I won’t use anything else. 17:35 – Panel: That’s an impressive turnaround! 17:42 – Panel: It just goes to show you that the code in Vue is so approachable to anyone. If you know a little bit of JavaScript then you know what is kind of going on. It’s pretty clean. Especially the Vue Router. 18:11 – Panel: Vue Core – some parts that can be hairy. 18:43 – We are component authors. We just need to know here is a component and here are some methods that it needs to know. 19:04 – Oh yeah, totally – I was talking more about... 19:14 – That’s what I thought for those 2 weeks cause I was looking at... 19:24 – Chuck: How do you get the Vue stuff in that and not the Angular? 19:41 – Guest answers the question. 20:20 – Panel: What was the hardest part to integrate? 20:28 – Michael: I wrote my own router. It was too much for me to write. I thought it was going to take me ages. So it took the longest to come to the idea to extending Vue’s router. I thought writing less code is the best. It took me 2 weeks to come to that conclusion. It was related to how... 22:21 – Question. 22:28 – Michael: You can use Vue router like if you used a different package. 22:40 – Panel: It is using the other router history or if you are using Hash API; since it’s all web technology? 23:03 – Guest: People don’t see the URL. 23:10 – We can teach them to pass... 23:25 – Panel: I have been interested in Ionic...when you sprinkle in some native stuff. Local databases. Getting that wasn’t too bad to work. The trick was testing that. 24:04 – Guest: A lot of manual work, unfortunately. It’s a lot of set-up work. You can do test functions but actually have that end-to-end test...can I make sure that is working correctly? A lot of manual testing. There are some cloud base platforms but I haven’t checked them out for an easier way. 25:06 – It was an Ionic issue it was... I think some of the Cloud services to better nowadays. 25:25 – Guest: It was painful to get it setup. Why do I need Clouds? 25:42 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! 26:19 – Let’s talk about native features. How does one do that in Vue? 26:29 – Guest talks about Vue, Capacitor, and Cordova. 27:27 – Guest: Let’s talk back to the Beep app. Lots of this stuff is really easy, as Mike was saying. That’s what I like to do – being a both a developer and a library writer. 28:00 – Panel: Imagine Slash from Guns and Roses. 28:14 – Chuck: They get this idea that it’s Java so I can share. Chuck asks a question. 28:30 – Guest: All of it. You might want to change some of the UIs. If it looks good on mobile then you can adapt that as the main app and swap that out for the traditional designs and something else. 29:03 – Panel: I can’t just drop in the same dibs for my styles on my desktop and magically look like a mobile app. 29:23 – Guest: That’s where you are wrong. Ionic does this really well. We have painstakingly made this be a thing. The guest talks about screen width, layouts, and other topics. 30:10 – Guest: It’s the same code. 30:18 – Panelist gives a hypothetical situation for the guests. 30:36 – Guest answers the question. Guest: You will have to refactor from desktop to mobile. 31:54 – Chuck. 32:10 – Michael: It’s about continuity. 32:39 – Panel: Building a Vue app we can use the Ionic Vue project to reuse that work that you did to get that back button working. 32:59 – Michael: That’s the whole point. So you guys don’t even have to think about it. So you don’t have to fiddle around with bugs. 33:17 – Panelist. 33:22 – Michael. 33:33 – Mike: Eventually we want to do a full fledge Vue project they just install Ionic Vue and it will integrate the package. 33:55 – Michael: You use the UPI and that’s it. 34:03 – Panel: Beyond the hardcore 3D sky room games are there any other reasons why I wouldn’t want to use Ionic? 34:30 – Mike: I can’t think of anything. More important question is what is your team’s experience? I wouldn’t go to a bunch of C+ devs and say: Here ya go! I wouldn’t do that. You have to figure out the team that knows Java and they don’t know native, so they will be able to reuse those skills. 35:25 – Panel: I am wondering if there is anything technically impossible because of the way Ionic works? 36:00 – Guest: If there are, I haven’t seen it, yet. There are 20,000,000 downloads so far, so I don’t think so. 36:28 – Panel: When people report an issue what do they complain about? 36:39 – Guest: Being a couple pixels off (CSS), API signatures, etc. We are seeing fewer issues on the... People are looking at functionality issues. Whenever there are issues we take care of it right away. 37:26 – Panelist asks a question. 37:32 – It’s really done well. 37:46 – Panel: Are people able to drop that into an Ionic app? 38:09 – Guest: I haven’t tried that, yet. 38:20 – Panel: I have another question: How big are Ionic apps compared to other native apps. When you are using C+ or writing in Java or Swift. 39:09 – Guest: Twitter native was a couple 100 MB app. But the apps built with Ionic are 50 MB category. They can be small or full native apps with plugins. 40:00 – Panel: Does that mean that in some cases users will have to be connected to the Internet to use the app? 40:29 – Guest answers. 41:02 – Guest: I have some good news for you all. (Guest goes into detail.) 41:39 – Chuck. 41:44 – Guest: Another comparison is my app I use for my Home Goods store is 80 MB and it’s not doing a whole lot. 42:21 – Chuck: Let’s talk data for a minute. You can get large that way if you are DL files through the app – how do you manage memory? 42:42 – Guest: That is run by the browser run-time. Sometimes too good of a job. When you are doing production cases your... 43:27 – Panel: Do you have access to Sequel Light or do you have to use in-browser storage? 43:27 – Guest: Either one. 44:16 – Sequel Light. 44:20 – Guest. 44:24 – Within Ionic you can use Sequel Light there is a plugin. 44:55 – Panelist comments. 45:23 – Michael: I want to add some clarification. You can write your own propriety files... 45:23 – I like that it sounds like it’s different than other frameworks. Instead of there being a framework way to do it there is a lot of different pieces you can plugin to different parts that is agnostic to Ionic. 46:10 – Guest talks about batteries included. 46:42 – Panel: I really like that b/c it’s the Vue approach, too. 47:21 – The guest talks about transitions. 48:07 – Chuck: If I get stuck what is the community around it? 48:25 – Guest: It’s still early right now. If you went to the code base you wouldn’t see much. We are working on the code getting into the package. The good thing is that the way it’s structure, once their APIs are set then it’s the same through Angular and Vue. Once you have that API set it’s the same thing between those 3 things. 49:13 – Guest: Let me blow your minds guys... There are 7 controllers and 99% you would go to the Ionic site. The rest is identical and that’s the cool part. If you are coming from Angular you can reuse a lot of that knowledge. 50:00 – Panel: If they wanted to build an app right now what would you recommend as their first step? 50:16 – Guest: Ionic and Vue – check out the docs and the components overviews to see what the vanilla components are like. 50:52 – Panel: Is there an example repo? 50:59 – Guest: That would be the BEEP app. 51:08 – Panel: Vue specific docs? 51:18 – Guest: Files that you can drop into your browser. 51:27 – Panel: How soon is soon? 51:31 – Guest: Most likely within the next few months. Final touches that we want to complete. 52:11 – Chuck: What about testing? 52:17 – Guest: Same way you would test a Vue app there is nothing specific for Ionic (at least for the unit tests). If you are doing integration tests that would work the same way in typical Vue setup the only quirks are... 52:56 – Question: Does Ionic offer a collection of mocks for APIs? 53:11 – Guest: Yes, but just for Angular. It’s the only framework to support. This is a good call for community members to contribute. 53:35 – Panel: Would that be a new repo for Vue? 53:44 – Guest: Contribute to the Ionic Teams’ Main Repository and open an issue – and Ping me. 54:02 – Twitter names are given. 54:13 – Panel: How do they reach you? 54:19 – Michael: My whole name slurred together. 54:39 – Panel: Anything else they should know? 54:46 – Guest: Ping us and we will get you working with Ionic. 54:54 – Guest: The cookbook examples are a good starting part. We work very hard with Ionic. 56:01 – Panel: If they have questions where should they post them – chat, or form? 56:20 – Guest: Yes, ask away – any questions. 56:41 – Panel: How do you make money? 57:00 – Guest: If you want to build the Android portion, but you don’t want to take the time, we have a hosted platform that will handle that for you. Help you create your build so you don’t have to create all of the native stuff. 57:29 – Picks! 57:35 – Chuck: I have more stuff to play with – dang it! I am happy to outsource to you, Chris! 58:00 – Sarcasm. 58:26 – Chuck: Thank you for sharing your stories, Michael and Mike! 58:38 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React Angular JavaScript DevChat TV Ionic – Vue Ionic Star Track Onsen UI Beep Have I been Pawned? Michael T.’s LinkedIn Mike H.’s Twitter Michael T.’s Twitter Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Picks: John NMP Library – DoteNV The 12 Factor App Divya Post by Sara S. Headspace – daily meditation Chris Library called CUID Library – MapBox Netflix – The Originals Chuck Friends of Scouting – good cause to give money Michael AIRBNB Lottie Steam Support Mike Blog Post – GitHub Integration Infinity War Joe Movie Peppermint Burn After Reading Goodbye Redux
Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Eriksen Eric Berry Special Guest: Andrew Summers In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Andrew Summers who lives in Chicago, currently. Working on Elixir development, and here to talk about how he wrote the dialyzer pretty printer. He is a software engineer for Albert.io, makes cool stuff every day, loves punk music, and Philadelphia sports. The panel talks about the Dialyzer pretty printing, Elixir, code writing, and more! Show Topics: 1:07 – Why are you famous? 1:11 – Andrew: Answers the question. 1:34 – Chuck: Nice. Is the dialyzer printer complete pretty printing or is it more than that? 1:45 – Andrew talks. He mentions the background information on this specific printer, which was written a decade ago. 4:13 – Panel: One thing that is helpful is that it is a static code analysis. In the Elixir we are writing these spec statements. For nothing else than this type is coming out. Then this looks at the code, and your spec says you are returning this, but I can tell that you are also returning X, Y, or Z. So it is helping us see what we are declaring a code to do, and that’s really what the code is doing. 5:28 – Guest: Yes, exactly. To continue that topic here is what else it’s saying... 6:08 – Panel: Our panelist is not here, but he has had to fix code before with that problem. With Dialect Dialyzer – how do we say this library is out-of-date? The code is out-of-date. How do I get my stuff to pass – to clean up my site? 6:54 – Guest: Containing that warning. Guest goes into further detail how to problem-solve this issue. 8:02 – Panel: So you are saying that I can funnel. 8:20 – Panel & Guest go back-and-forth talking about this topic. 9:49 – Panel: I am still diving into the system. Haven’t really used the printer, yet. Panelist asks Guest a question. 10:04 – Guest: At the forefront there are some configurations to help with that. 11:16 – Panel: Why would someone not want to use this? What are the cons? 11:23 – Guest: It would have to do more with CI than anything (one con). 13:06 – Panel: Lots of people are coming to Elixir New. Great. What is the selling point? Why should someone invest his or her time in this project? 13:33 – Guest: I find looking for a type spec is one more piece of information that could help the reader that would tell them what the code should be doing. Any information from the original author to be passed down is great. Having the machine to check that, whenever you push code, it’s an imperfect check (as we were saying). If it can tell you that you did something wrong, then why not? It gives you that extra red flag. There are huge benefits to that. Same reason we write unit tests. 15:20 – Panel: You are learning Elixir right, Chuck? Panelist talks about tech specs, code writing, and learning projects. 16:25 – Panel: Here is a tip to learning. One thing that I did I came to an existing project and writing a sub-system ( as series of modules) Writing the tech specs. As they are interacting with each other, then writing Dial Elixir, and grab the output to the file path to where my code is. Within my own code find where I am inconsistent. Andrew – you could get pages of output, right? Any tips for users? 17:37 – Guest: Isolate portions of your code base. 19:27 – Chuck: I do like the idea of the umbrella. Phoenix app out into an umbrella. A sub apps and they are more centered, smaller sized. Then, yeah. Start with Dialyzer on just that project. Isolate it, and this app in the umbrella. The output is much smaller, and good success with that. Now, one of the new features you added was the language / the code that it reports is an ERLANG term. That is not familiar to most Elixir developers. Especially if you are new to it. If you are turning this into a friendly Elixir thing, then you had to learn other programs. How did you get into this path? 21:00 – Andrew: Whenever there was complicated “something” at work – I was the person to go to. As I started to do it more and more I saw patterns in the output. Things were kind of predictable, and how to format things. It synchronizes weird. What would I do to write this task? Researched. There are 2 tools = LEEX and YECC. If you have 2 files in your source directory... 22:56 – Advertisement – Digital Ocean 23:39 – Panel: It’s cool. 23:58 – Guest: It brought me back to some courses from school. I thought that was funny. They are pretty contained tools. 24:36 – Panel: Part of your motivation was from Jose. 24:49 – Guest: Yes, definitely. 25:39 – Did you have any questions for Jose? 26:35 – Panel: You added the feature of... CREDO is pretty well-known. 27:28 – Guest: Sure, I guess I did skip some of that. Andrew talked about different libraries, ERLANG modules, and so on. 28:38 – Panel: What else are you doing? 28:45 – Getting error messages fixed for version 1.0. Trying to close-up the residual things. 30:18 – Guest keeps talking about support and other bugs. Andrew: If you see something, say something. 31:00 - Panel: There are languages that run on the beam. Something to create something more standard so different languages can depend on. Is there anything like that? To help you with your tooling? 31:40 – Andrew: Good question! Some of the things that happen at the Dialyzer level, stuff just gets dropped. 33:47 – Guest: How this works all together... 35:15 – Chuck: How to contribute to Dialyxir? 35:30 – Guest: Around error messages – is the best place to look. If you have a good editor hand, good place for that. If you are further into the compiler land – might want to play with that. 36:29 – Guest: ERLEX 36:43 – Chuck: What did you learn about building these libraries? 36:55 – Guest: I learned a lot about the construction of Elixir. Guest dives into this more. 38:25 – Chuck: The principle that you cannot bind... 38:51 – Guest: ...this area of my code-base... it would be nice to turn off those features. When I really do need it – I need it, but not so if I don’t need it. 39:39 – Panel: I want to point someone to a resource: TypeSpecs. 39:54 – Guest: I used that so much! Wonderful resource, I learned so much stuff! I stole all the output from that. I didn’t know that language had that?! 40:20 – Panel chimes in about this resource some more. 41:02 – Guest: We really do have a simple language. There are some weird things, but not a lot of constructs under the hood. Only a few data structures. It could have been more complicated. I was worried about that – but that never happened, because... 41:41 – Panel: Thanks for adding that. Very true. 42:51 – Guest talks about other things that are very simple, too. 44:35 – Panel: Are you doing fulltime with Elixir for programming? 44:35 – Guest: Yes, we are using other Elixir and JS App. In another life I used... They all can teach you something. Sometimes the journey of going there and realizing WHY you don’t want to be there is sometimes worth the journey! 45:20 – Panel asks guest a question. 45:25 – Guest answers question. Andrew: We have enjoyed our time in Elixir. It’s nice. 46:27 – Panel: Anything else? 46:33 – Panel: Where can people find you online? 46:40 – Guest: Elixir Slack, Twitter, GitHub. 47:01 – Picks! 47:05 – Advertisement – Code Badges Links: Andrew Summers’ Twitter Credo Erlang Dialyxir LEEX YECC Credo ERLEX TypeSpecs Curated Dev News for Busy Developers EX_JSON_SCHEMA React – Jsonschema – form Announcing Distillery 2.0 Distillery’s documentation! MKDocs EX_Json_Schema Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Eric Chrome Extension for News Mark Announcing Distillery 2.0 MKdocs https://hexdocs.pm/distillery/home.html. Charles Launch by Jeff Walker Downcast Andrew Ex json Schema React json schema from
Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Eriksen Eric Berry Special Guest: Andrew Summers In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Andrew Summers who lives in Chicago, currently. Working on Elixir development, and here to talk about how he wrote the dialyzer pretty printer. He is a software engineer for Albert.io, makes cool stuff every day, loves punk music, and Philadelphia sports. The panel talks about the Dialyzer pretty printing, Elixir, code writing, and more! Show Topics: 1:07 – Why are you famous? 1:11 – Andrew: Answers the question. 1:34 – Chuck: Nice. Is the dialyzer printer complete pretty printing or is it more than that? 1:45 – Andrew talks. He mentions the background information on this specific printer, which was written a decade ago. 4:13 – Panel: One thing that is helpful is that it is a static code analysis. In the Elixir we are writing these spec statements. For nothing else than this type is coming out. Then this looks at the code, and your spec says you are returning this, but I can tell that you are also returning X, Y, or Z. So it is helping us see what we are declaring a code to do, and that’s really what the code is doing. 5:28 – Guest: Yes, exactly. To continue that topic here is what else it’s saying... 6:08 – Panel: Our panelist is not here, but he has had to fix code before with that problem. With Dialect Dialyzer – how do we say this library is out-of-date? The code is out-of-date. How do I get my stuff to pass – to clean up my site? 6:54 – Guest: Containing that warning. Guest goes into further detail how to problem-solve this issue. 8:02 – Panel: So you are saying that I can funnel. 8:20 – Panel & Guest go back-and-forth talking about this topic. 9:49 – Panel: I am still diving into the system. Haven’t really used the printer, yet. Panelist asks Guest a question. 10:04 – Guest: At the forefront there are some configurations to help with that. 11:16 – Panel: Why would someone not want to use this? What are the cons? 11:23 – Guest: It would have to do more with CI than anything (one con). 13:06 – Panel: Lots of people are coming to Elixir New. Great. What is the selling point? Why should someone invest his or her time in this project? 13:33 – Guest: I find looking for a type spec is one more piece of information that could help the reader that would tell them what the code should be doing. Any information from the original author to be passed down is great. Having the machine to check that, whenever you push code, it’s an imperfect check (as we were saying). If it can tell you that you did something wrong, then why not? It gives you that extra red flag. There are huge benefits to that. Same reason we write unit tests. 15:20 – Panel: You are learning Elixir right, Chuck? Panelist talks about tech specs, code writing, and learning projects. 16:25 – Panel: Here is a tip to learning. One thing that I did I came to an existing project and writing a sub-system ( as series of modules) Writing the tech specs. As they are interacting with each other, then writing Dial Elixir, and grab the output to the file path to where my code is. Within my own code find where I am inconsistent. Andrew – you could get pages of output, right? Any tips for users? 17:37 – Guest: Isolate portions of your code base. 19:27 – Chuck: I do like the idea of the umbrella. Phoenix app out into an umbrella. A sub apps and they are more centered, smaller sized. Then, yeah. Start with Dialyzer on just that project. Isolate it, and this app in the umbrella. The output is much smaller, and good success with that. Now, one of the new features you added was the language / the code that it reports is an ERLANG term. That is not familiar to most Elixir developers. Especially if you are new to it. If you are turning this into a friendly Elixir thing, then you had to learn other programs. How did you get into this path? 21:00 – Andrew: Whenever there was complicated “something” at work – I was the person to go to. As I started to do it more and more I saw patterns in the output. Things were kind of predictable, and how to format things. It synchronizes weird. What would I do to write this task? Researched. There are 2 tools = LEEX and YECC. If you have 2 files in your source directory... 22:56 – Advertisement – Digital Ocean 23:39 – Panel: It’s cool. 23:58 – Guest: It brought me back to some courses from school. I thought that was funny. They are pretty contained tools. 24:36 – Panel: Part of your motivation was from Jose. 24:49 – Guest: Yes, definitely. 25:39 – Did you have any questions for Jose? 26:35 – Panel: You added the feature of... CREDO is pretty well-known. 27:28 – Guest: Sure, I guess I did skip some of that. Andrew talked about different libraries, ERLANG modules, and so on. 28:38 – Panel: What else are you doing? 28:45 – Getting error messages fixed for version 1.0. Trying to close-up the residual things. 30:18 – Guest keeps talking about support and other bugs. Andrew: If you see something, say something. 31:00 - Panel: There are languages that run on the beam. Something to create something more standard so different languages can depend on. Is there anything like that? To help you with your tooling? 31:40 – Andrew: Good question! Some of the things that happen at the Dialyzer level, stuff just gets dropped. 33:47 – Guest: How this works all together... 35:15 – Chuck: How to contribute to Dialyxir? 35:30 – Guest: Around error messages – is the best place to look. If you have a good editor hand, good place for that. If you are further into the compiler land – might want to play with that. 36:29 – Guest: ERLEX 36:43 – Chuck: What did you learn about building these libraries? 36:55 – Guest: I learned a lot about the construction of Elixir. Guest dives into this more. 38:25 – Chuck: The principle that you cannot bind... 38:51 – Guest: ...this area of my code-base... it would be nice to turn off those features. When I really do need it – I need it, but not so if I don’t need it. 39:39 – Panel: I want to point someone to a resource: TypeSpecs. 39:54 – Guest: I used that so much! Wonderful resource, I learned so much stuff! I stole all the output from that. I didn’t know that language had that?! 40:20 – Panel chimes in about this resource some more. 41:02 – Guest: We really do have a simple language. There are some weird things, but not a lot of constructs under the hood. Only a few data structures. It could have been more complicated. I was worried about that – but that never happened, because... 41:41 – Panel: Thanks for adding that. Very true. 42:51 – Guest talks about other things that are very simple, too. 44:35 – Panel: Are you doing fulltime with Elixir for programming? 44:35 – Guest: Yes, we are using other Elixir and JS App. In another life I used... They all can teach you something. Sometimes the journey of going there and realizing WHY you don’t want to be there is sometimes worth the journey! 45:20 – Panel asks guest a question. 45:25 – Guest answers question. Andrew: We have enjoyed our time in Elixir. It’s nice. 46:27 – Panel: Anything else? 46:33 – Panel: Where can people find you online? 46:40 – Guest: Elixir Slack, Twitter, GitHub. 47:01 – Picks! 47:05 – Advertisement – Code Badges Links: Andrew Summers’ Twitter Credo Erlang Dialyxir LEEX YECC Credo ERLEX TypeSpecs Curated Dev News for Busy Developers EX_JSON_SCHEMA React – Jsonschema – form Announcing Distillery 2.0 Distillery’s documentation! MKDocs EX_Json_Schema Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Eric Chrome Extension for News Mark Announcing Distillery 2.0 MKdocs https://hexdocs.pm/distillery/home.html. Charles Launch by Jeff Walker Downcast Andrew Ex json Schema React json schema from
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