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AI agents have shown remarkable potential to function as persistent digital assistants that are capable of monitoring data, managing communications, and taking action autonomously over long periods. OpenClaw was one of the first serious attempts to fulfill that vision, connecting frontier coding agents to messaging platforms like Slack and WhatsApp and letting them run continuously in the background. However, OpenClaw largely set aside questions of security to pursue that vision, leaving credentials exposed in the agent’s environment and giving agents broad access to data and services far beyond what any given task required. NanoClaw is an open source project that takes a zero trust approach to agent orchestration. Rather than relying on instructions to constrain agent behavior, it isolates each agent in its own Docker container, keeps credentials entirely outside the agent’s environment, and enforces human-in-the-loop approval for sensitive actions. Gavriel Cohen is the founder of NanoClaw and he joins Kevin Ball to discuss the security architecture behind NanoClaw, how the agent sandbox and proxy model work in practice, how agents communicate with each other and with the host orchestration process, how the project approaches context window management and long-lived agent sessions, and more. Kevin Ball or KBall, is the vice president of engineering at Mento and an independent coach for engineers and engineering leaders. He co-founded and served as CTO for two companies, founded the San Diego JavaScript meetup, and organizes the AI inaction discussion group through Latent Space. Please click here to see the transcript of this episode. Sponsorship inquiries: sponsor@softwareengineeringdaily.com The post NanoClaw and the Rise of Personal AI Agents appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Carrie Hopkins, senior director of business development and sales for Exclusive Networks Canada Exclusive Networks describes itself as a specialist distributor — hyper-focused on cybersecurity and advanced networking, deliberately not trying to be everything to everyone. As the company makes a serious push into the Canadian market, In The Channel sat down with Carrie Hopkins, senior director of business development and sales for Canada, to talk about what that actually means in practice for Canadian partners. Hopkins walks through what Exclusive is building in Canada specifically — in-country finance and operations, and a prescriptive approach to partner recruitment that goes beyond adding names to a portal. Rather than waiting for partners to come to them, Exclusive analyzes what existing partners buy, what they conspicuously don’t buy, and builds outreach strategy around those gaps. We also get into Ignition, Exclusive’s newly launched cybersecurity channel incubator, which arrived in North America earlier this year. The program is designed to bring emerging vendors to channel partners with the vetting and enablement baked in — addressing a real problem for MSPs and VARs who are being pitched constantly by early-stage vendors and don’t have the bandwidth to evaluate them all. And then there’s the Westcon thread. Hopkins spent years at Westcon and Comstor before moving through vendor-side channel roles at Ixia, Infoblox, and Sisense. When asked whether Exclusive feels like the evolution of what Westcon was doing before North American distribution consolidated, her answer is worth a listen. – UPLOAD AUDIO Read Full Transcript ROBERT DUTT: Hello and welcome to In The Channel from ChannelBuzz.ca, bringing news and information to the Canadian IT channel community for the last 16 years. I’m Robert Dutt, editor of ChannelBuzz.ca and your host for the show. If you’ve been paying attention to the distribution landscape in Canada, you may have noticed that Exclusive Networks has been quietly building something. Exclusive is a global cybersecurity specialist distributor, and the emphasis on “specialist” is deliberate. They’re not trying to be everything for everyone. They focus specifically on cybersecurity and advanced networking, and they’re making a real push to make that model mean something in the Canadian market. My guest today is Carrie Hopkins, senior director of business development and sales for Canada at Exclusive Networks. Carrie’s background is worth noting. She spent years at Westcon and Comstor before moving through a series of vendor-side channel roles, and she brings that perspective to bear on what Exclusive is trying to build here. We talk about the state of play in Canada, the distributor’s recently launched Ignition cybersecurity incubator program, and whether what Exclusive is doing today is the evolution of what the specialist distributor used to look like in the market, or something genuinely new. Let’s get right into it. My chat with Carrie Hopkins. ROBERT DUTT: Carrie, thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it. CARRIE HOPKINS: Thank you, Robert. Great to see you. ROBERT DUTT: For listeners who may not be familiar with Exclusive Networks, how do you describe what you do differently from the broadliners? What does specialist distribution look like in practice, especially in a modern context? CARRIE HOPKINS: Yeah. So, Exclusive Networks Canada is hyper-focused on a very curated line card. We’re able to provide the right support structure to scale faster and win faster for our partners. We have programs both for our core vendor lines, as well as our new Ignition vendor lines, that will provide combined deep channel expertise, as well as hands-on enablement through our engineering team. ROBERT DUTT: You joined Exclusive, I guess, coming up a year now. What was the pitch that brought you in, and what were they asking you to build in Canada? What’s kind of the big goal? CARRIE HOPKINS: So, the big goal, obviously, with any business is revenue generation, but it’s also to improve our footprint geographically, nationally. We are also from an in-region support perspective, as well as improving the number of vendors that are selling into our partner community. To do that, we have to bring our partner community to the right vendors that will help them grow their business. So, that’s really what we’re focused on. ROBERT DUTT: You touched on geography and that. What were the gaps, both geographical and otherwise? Like, what did the Canadian market look like for Exclusive when you showed up? What were the gaps, and where has your focus been in this first year? CARRIE HOPKINS: Yeah, I think the biggest gaps were really more vendor alignment. Geographically, we do have people based from Montreal out to Calgary. So, we do have physical presence there to help our partners with feet on the street, but we tended to be a little bit more hyper-focused on a few of our top vendors. I think for the whole team, and what we’re seeing, is that by curating a better cybersecurity and network security vendor list, we’re able to give our partners more. We’re able to reach new partners that we haven’t talked to in the past because maybe they weren’t aligned to our top vendors. So, growing that vendor list has really helped us expand across the country. ROBERT DUTT: You spent quite a bit of time at Westcon and Comstor, which is probably the closest model I can think of to what Exclusive is doing that’s existed in the North American market. When you look at Exclusive now, do you see it sort of as the evolution of that model, or is it something genuinely different given the changing times? CARRIE HOPKINS: It’s actually funny that there’s a number of ex-Westcon-ers here now, and that’s what brought us all together, is that this is — it feels like the Westcon of the mid-2000s aughts. When we all were working there before 2010, it was just such a great vibe. We had great people that were aligned to vendors and to partners, and we all worked together really collaboratively. That’s what I’m seeing now. While Exclusive Networks Canada is our own entity — we have Canadian footprint, we have Canadian finance, we have Canadian operations and sales — we do work really collaboratively with our North American team, which includes people like Heather Allen and Andrew Warren, who are also ex-Westcon. We’re able to really remember the great times of building up that business and then to also bring it into this new era with all these great new vendors who are bringing something new and innovative to the market, as opposed to just the old traditionals. ROBERT DUTT: It’s not every day you get a chance to run it back, as it were. Keep it in that lane. Westcon obviously got absorbed into broadline here in North America, at least. Do you think the market lost something when that happened? And is what Exclusive is doing filling that gap? CARRIE HOPKINS: Agreed. I think so. I think with the broadline, of course, there’s some great people still there today who are really great at holding those relationships. But what happens with the broadline, of course, is you have so many vendors and you have so many partners, and you can’t possibly give the same level of touch and care and commitment that we can here when we’re keeping it under that 20-vendor mark. We’re able to really go after our partners with the right mix of vendors that aren’t over-distributed, I would say. ROBERT DUTT: So to that point, one of the fun things you’re able to do in the specialty distribution mode is embrace vendors who are a little bit earlier in the game, which brings us to Ignition, which just launched in North America. Cybersecurity channel incubator. Can you walk me through what that actually means? What does a vendor get out of being in Ignition, and what does a partner get access to? CARRIE HOPKINS: Yeah. For the vendors, we’re giving them — again, we’re giving our vendors a team of highly skilled distribution people that knows the market. Most of my employees here have been either in distribution or in service provider and resale in Canada for anywhere from six years to 15, actually, or more, for a couple of us. And so they’re getting a strong team. They’re getting a team with the right support structure. They’re getting dedicated SE support. So we have dedicated SEs aligned to each one of these vendors. And then they’re also getting an integrated hyperscaler pathway as well as we build out our hyperscaler go-to-market motion. So the partners that we align with, we will help them nurture, grow, and scale well, and also enabling our channel partners to differentiate because they’re bringing on something really cool and unique to be relevant and bring new value, whether it’s from vendor platform visibility or network detection and response, but done in a more unique way. We’re hoping that we can bring them that value. ROBERT DUTT: Looking at the initial North American cohort with ExtraHop, Zluri, Docker, Sendmarc, PagerDuty, Meter — that’s not all pure-play cybersecurity in the traditional sense. I’m curious, how are you defining the scope of what Ignition is about? CARRIE HOPKINS: Yeah. I think it has to fit with our partner mix as well. In Canada, our partners are possibly not as verticalized as in some other larger regions. In Canada, most of our partners, if they’re selling networking, they also will sell security, or they’re looking for that vendor that’s going to bridge the gap. So even though a vendor, for example, like ExtraHop — you might think of them as network detection and response, but there is a security play in there. There’s a security SOC play that works really well, and it helps our Canadian partners who are talking to the network team introduce a vendor that also connects them with the SOC. That could be said for Sendmarc as well. Again, you think of that as email demarcation points, which could lean into the networking team, but we need to talk to everybody. Our Canadian partners are talking to both sides of the fence, so we need to give them those vendors. ROBERT DUTT: Well, and yeah, it speaks to the moment too, in that security is part of every sale, but particularly every networking sale. CARRIE HOPKINS: Exactly. Yeah. ROBERT DUTT: From the Canadian partner perspective specifically, what does Ignition mean for them? Is it about giving them earlier access to emerging vendors, de-risking those bets with players who may be less familiar, something else? CARRIE HOPKINS: I think you hit the nail on the head. We’re doing all the research for them. I was speaking to a partner just yesterday at the Winnipeg Western Canada Information Security Conference, and he was saying that his inbox for his LinkedIn is filled with vendors reaching out saying, “Please, sell us.” How does an MSP or service provider decide which vendors they should engage in? We’ve done that heavy lifting for them. We’ve researched, we’ve determined that these are the right fit for the Canadian market and the US market, and we’re happy to bring them a more curated list. Again, let us do the heavy lifting. We also are getting our engineers trained, so it’s not just a team of people sitting in a room deciding that monetarily this is a good fit. These are our engineers who can speak to their engineers and show them exactly how this fits with what they’re selling. It also provides our partners with a really unique differentiated approach. They’re not selling that one vendor, they’re selling a combined solution. ROBERT DUTT: Yeah, I was going to say, how prescriptive, how in the weeds do you guys get in terms of, “Dear MSP, think about this vendor along with this vendor,” piggybacking the core vendors with the Ignition folks? CARRIE HOPKINS: That’s exactly the play. We’ve done extensive research on what are our partners currently buying from us, but also what aren’t they buying from us, maybe because we don’t sell it or they’ve chosen to go a different direction. What are their websites saying that they sell? We’ve taken all of that information, we’ve compared it with the new vendors that we’re bringing on, so we have an extensive list of top-priority partners that we feel are a great fit for multiple of these vendors. Then we have the next level down, so we’ve completely curated a target list of partners that we’re going to reach out to say, “We know you’re a business, we understand it. We think that Docker is the right next step for you,” or, “We believe that Zluri really fits when you’re selling A, B, and C.” ROBERT DUTT: This is North American in scope. How are you getting in front of those vendors and assessing where they are at currently in Canada and where you can step in, make introductions, ease path to market, those kinds of things? CARRIE HOPKINS: That’s one of the things that we find with the Canadian market is there’s not always feet on the ground with new vendors. That’s, again, where we step in. We do have feet on the ground. We’re learning about their solutions, so if they don’t have a local CAM, that’s us. That’s our job is to help them build their business and help them build the right business. Recruiting a lot of partners isn’t always the right first step. It’s recruiting the right partners who will embrace the technology, learn the technology, and help it lift. Then we can see what is the right number of partners for the technology in Canada today. We don’t want to flood the market. We want to make sure that all of our vendors have the right partners to properly serve the market. ROBERT DUTT: I’d imagine that dynamic’s also working in the other direction, in so much as you say, MSPs and other solution providers are being flooded with new vendors, especially in the security space. The fact that you guys are, to a degree, backstopping them — that you’ve done the vetting and you’re standing behind them — has to add something. CARRIE HOPKINS: Exactly. Yeah. ROBERT DUTT: Beyond Ignition, what can you tell me about the broader push for Exclusive in Canada right now? In terms of, you said you want to stay pretty strategic on vendor lines. What are you thinking about partner recruitment, headcount? Basically, where are you building right now? CARRIE HOPKINS: Yes. Building with headcount. Where we’re adding right now — in fact, this morning, we’re adding to our quoting and order management team because we never want to lose sight of one of our biggest values, which is our speed and efficiency and accuracy of our quoting. When it comes to distribution, you have to do the basics really brilliantly. We do that here. Sub-[time] turnaround on quote request, sub-[time] order management process. We are quick and efficient, full stop. We’re going to keep doing that. We’re going to add headcount to that. We’re opening up headcount in the second half of the year to help us really embrace all of the new vendors that we have on board. In the last six months, we’ve also onboarded vendors like A10 and Infoblox who are going to make a big impact in the coming year. We’re fully supporting them with extra headcount. ROBERT DUTT: What’s the long-term vision for structure? I know distributors in particular tend to vacillate somewhat over time between a heavily North Americanized model and independent Canadian. Just curious what the long-term thinking is there for you guys. CARRIE HOPKINS: Long-term is that we will always have feet on the ground here in Canada. That gets reinforced to me, and I reinforce it with my leadership every time, every chance I get. I am also a big advocate for having in-country vendor business managers so they can have those channel business conversations. They’re talking to the peers who know the market. They know the FX challenges. They know that we’re provinces instead of states. It’s like that. The great news is with our Ignition team is that the leader of that team, Michael Compizzi, he’s located just in Rochester, New York, which is a short two-hour drive from where I’m based. He will be in Canada quite often as well. We will have North American support, but in-country dedicated resources. ROBERT DUTT: I would add he’d be closer if it weren’t for a rather inconveniently placed lake. CARRIE HOPKINS: [laughs] ROBERT DUTT: Canadian partners have a lot of choices in terms of distribution, maybe not quite as many as 10 years ago, but still there’s a number of choices there. What’s the honest pitch for why a Canadian MSP or VAR who isn’t already working with Exclusive right now should take a look at you guys? CARRIE HOPKINS: Our partners will never be lost in the shuffle. They will have dedicated support. They will have quick and efficient turnaround, and they will have a vendor line card that supports their business. Simple to the point. ROBERT DUTT: That works. The last one for me: what should Canadian partners be paying attention to over the next six to 12 months, either from you guys exclusively or in the market more broadly? CARRIE HOPKINS: I don’t think that a podcast about technology can end without saying the word AI. [laughs] Didn’t get your [nerd/name] achievement unlocked. ROBERT DUTT: There you go. CARRIE HOPKINS: I think that it’s important to note that there’s so many vendors and so many technologies coming out saying that they support AI, saying that they support different security functions around AI. It’s important that you work with a distributor who’s going to take the time to research each of those vendors on your behalf and have a fully engaged engineering staff who can speak to what it’s doing. Do you need it yet? Is it something that’s going to actually sell to the Canadian market? We’re going to make sure that our Canadian resellers have fully vetted solutions, that they’re not chasing rabbit holes. The number one important thing is that they know their business, they know their customer’s business, and where all those assets are. What does your Canadian partner need? We feel like we have the line card to fulfill that. ROBERT DUTT: Well, look forward to seeing how things roll out with the initial Ignition cohort and beyond, as you continue to develop Exclusive here in Canada. Carrie, thanks for taking the time. CARRIE HOPKINS: Thank you so much, Robert. I appreciate you. [Music transition] ROBERT DUTT: There you have it. Carrie Hopkins from Exclusive Networks. I’d like to thank Carrie for her time today. It was a genuinely good conversation, and I appreciated that she was willing to get beyond the talking points and into what the model actually means in practice for Canadian partners. If there’s one thing I take away from the conversation, it’s that the specialist distribution model Exclusive is building — and Ignition is probably the clearest expression of this — is trying to solve a real problem. Canadian MSPs and resellers are being pitched by an enormous number of emerging vendors, and they don’t have the bandwidth to vet each and every one of them. What Exclusive is saying, essentially, is: we’ll do that work. We’ll bring you the vendors we believe in. We’ll backstop the relationship. You focus on your customers. Whether they can deliver on that promise at scale is something we’ll be watching, but the thesis is certainly sound. The Westcon thread that came up in the conversation stuck with me too. There was something that worked about that model before consolidation rolled through North American distribution. It sounds like at least some of the people who built it think there’s a second act here. Thanks for listening. If you’re finding the podcast useful, please follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We’re on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and most of the major directories. Ratings and reviews are always appreciated and really help other people in the channel find the show. Until next time, I’m Robert Dutt for ChannelBuzz.ca, and I’ll see you in the channel. [Music] A couple of quick flags: “Sub-[time] turnaround” – I couldn’t decipher the exact numbers she threw out there. Worth a quick listen on your end to fill in the blank. “Didn’t get your [nerd/name] achievement unlocked” – MacWhisper clearly mangled this. Sounds like some kind of gaming joke about saying the word AI on a tech podcast. “Nerd achievement unlocked” is the most common internet phrase, but if you remember what she actually said, drop it in. “monetarily” – I left it as-is since it could be correct, though it scans a bit awkwardly. Could also be “more than merely” if you want to give it a listen. Otherwise this should be ready to go. Good batch recording session?

Erik Seliger (Lead Product Engineer at Sourcegraph) and Robert Lin (Lead Platform Engineer at Sourcegraph) join FINOS Zenith Project Lead Peter Smulovics to break down the mechanics of Agentic Batch Changes. They reveal how implementing a multi-layered agent architecture solves the high economic cost of pure "vibe coding" by combining deterministic scripting pipelines with localized, token-efficient AI coding models.

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We've been running a bit of an Agent Cloud series surveying all the top inference/compute/cloud providers, from Databricks to Daytona to Railway and, even further back, E2B, but we're excited to conclude this series returning to Modal, which has just raised a monster $355M Series C.The cloud was built for developers. But agents are now changing that.The old infra stack was designed for a human who could read docs, reason through YAML, and understand dashboards to figure out what they need when something broke. While this was painful for developers, it worked since they could fill in missing context in their heads.However, agents don't have that luxury. Now in this new era of agents, everything has to be tighter.They need a place to write code, run it, inspect the output, change the environment, debug failures, and try again. Fast iteration and feedback loops with all the necessary context are crucial for agents to operate properly. Furthermore, sandboxes are a clear representation of this shift as agents can easily spin up isolated environments. This programmatic infra even extends to research:Two years ago, we were one of the first to cover Modal with CEO Erik Bernhardsson and Alessio designed our favorite LS thumbnail of all time:At the time, Modal was just a teeny little company with a $17M Series A.Today, fresh off their $355M Series C, Modal is one of the clearest examples of the agent cloud future being built in real time: a cloud platform moving past traditional web app assumptions toward the workloads AI actually creates such as elastic inference, sandboxes, GPU burst, post-training, background agents, and infrastructure that agents themselves can operate.In this episode, Modal CTO Akshat Bubna joins swyx and Vibhu to unpack why AI applications don't fit traditional cloud assumptions, why Kubernetes was never designed for bursty compute-heavy workloads, and why Modal is now shifting from developer experience to agent experience.We go deep on Modal's AI infra stack: serverless functions, decorator-based infrastructure, elastic inference for custom models, GPU snapshotting, DeFlash, speculative decoding, Auto Endpoints, sandboxes, persistent storage, networked containers, private IPv6, RDMA, multi-node training, and Modal's capacity pool across 17 cloud providers. Akshat also explains why RL rollouts can require 100,000 sandboxes, why production agents need hard guardrails, why observability may matter more than reading code, and why AI has made infrastructure exciting again.We discuss:* Why Kubernetes wasn't built for bursty AI workloads* How Modal started as a better runtime before becoming an AI cloud* Why Modal added GPUs before ChatGPT* The shift from developer experience to agent experience* Why observability matters when agents are writing the code* Elastic inference for custom models across audio, video, robotics, and comp bio* GPU snapshotting, cold starts, and why inference workloads are so bursty* Why RL rollouts can require 100,000 sandboxes* DeFlash, speculative decoding, and frontier-level inference performance* Auto Endpoints and making optimized inference easier to deploy* What Modal adds beyond vLLM, SGLang, and raw GPU rental* Modal's 17-cloud capacity pool and supercloud strategy* Networked sandboxes, sidecars, private IPv6, and RDMA* Serverless multi-node training for post-training and research workloads* Auto-research, model-guided sweeps, and agents launching GPU experiments* Compute strategy, capacity planning, and batch tiers* Why production agents need specialized sandboxes and hard guardrails* Modal's take on managed agents, CI, Gitpod/Ona, Python, TypeScript, and Modal BenchAkshat Bubna* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshat-bubna-188885103* X: https://x.com/akshat_bModal* Website: https://modal.comTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:00:39 Modal's origin and why Kubernetes wasn't enough00:04:32 Developer Experience → Agent Experience00:06:21 Modal's AI cloud primitives00:09:14 Sandboxes, agent loops, and proto-Cognition00:12:12 Elastic inference, GPU snapshotting, and 100,000 sandboxes00:15:24 DeFlash, speculative decoding, and Auto Endpoints00:19:59 Production-grade inference beyond raw GPUs00:22:00 Background agents, Ramp Inspect, and the agent lifecycle00:24:08 Modal's 17-cloud supercloud strategy00:26:40 Networked sandboxes, private IPv6, and RDMA00:32:48 Multi-node training, post-training, and auto research00:37:36 Compute strategy, capacity planning, and batch tiers00:40:55 Open models, real-time AI, and production agent infra00:43:06 Hard guardrails, managed agents, and specialized sandboxes00:46:06 Why AI made infrastructure exciting again00:48:30 Model APIs, differentiated products, and agentic video00:51:50 CI, coding-agent infra, SDKs, and Modal Bench00:57:28 Closing ThoughtsTranscriptIntroduction: Modal, Series C, and the Art PartySwyx [00:00:00]: We're here with Akshat, CTO of Modal, together with Vibhu. Congrats on your Series C.Akshat [00:00:10]: Thank you.Swyx [00:00:11]: Your party yesterday was amazing.Akshat [00:00:15]: Yeah.Swyx [00:00:15]: From all the photos and all the swag.Akshat [00:00:17]: We had a bunch of art installations, which was fun, seeing, like, our products on pedestals next to, like, Rodin.Swyx [00:00:25]: Very nice. Very nice. When you started, it was not the GPU inference company. Maybe it was in your mind. Take us back to the origin story.Modal's Origin: A New Runtime Beyond KubernetesAkshat [00:00:39]: I first met Eric, who's the CEO, through an investor. Back then Eric was already thinking about building, a new runtime, and he got there thinking through why are workflow orchestration products so hard to use. It's because you have to run them on Kubernetes. Kubernetes is hard to manage. It's not built for burstiness and, custom images,Swyx [00:01:03]: YeahAkshat [00:01:03]: It has a terrible developer experience.Swyx [00:01:05]: And I'll, I'll interjectAkshat [00:01:06]: YeahSwyx [00:01:07]: For listeners, who are new, we interviewed Eric two years ago, and there's a bit more of the story there from Spotify and all those things.Swyx [00:01:14]: And I came across Eric through Data Council because he did that talk on the serverless container stack that you guys did, which was like, that was my first like, “Okay, I need to take Modal very seriously” moment.Akshat [00:01:26]: Yeah.Swyx [00:01:26]: But it was still very unclear, like, do I need all this for just my data pipelines?Akshat [00:01:33]: Yeah. initially what we were thinking about was if we build a better runtime, it's a very useful primitive in itself. It's There's a lot of things that, get solved by serverless functions, like you can do, ETL stuff, you can do job queues, you can do all this, like, bursty processing, which it turns out every company had needs for. but then we also were thinking about this as like, this is a primitive that we can build a whole collection of products on, which are very verticalized. So perhaps data engineering would've been the first one, but we were thinking about inference. Back then it was more classical inference, like computer vision stuff and running XGBoosts and whatnot. But we added GPUs to the product a year before ChatGPT came out.From Serverless Containers to GPU WorkloadsSwyx [00:02:19]: Nice.Akshat [00:02:19]: We just didn't think it would be that big of a deal.Swyx [00:02:22]: Yeah, just like add A100.Vibhu [00:02:23]: Was there any, like, early key problem that really sparked off why you built it?Akshat [00:02:28]: Yeah. Primarily it's just, none of the tooling that was out there was built for, one, a really great developer experience, and also there's a general trend of, a lot of the workloads that we were seeing were very. I wish there was a better word for it, but compute-heavy. Like, they need, one, like, need a lot more resources, so you need to burst up and down a lot, versus like Kubernetes designed for, like, slow scaling and, more for, like, web server use cases. And also there's just a lot more specialization in, like, what kinds of environments these workloads run in. Like, we had sometimes they need accelerators, sometimes they need different kinds of images, and this is just like a consistent thing that we saw across a lot of companies. That would be the next step.Software-Defined Infrastructure and Decorator-Based DXSwyx [00:03:13]: Yeah. Yeah. Be nice. I don't know how much this factored into the early story, but I wrote a post when I was at Temporal about infrastructure, software-defined infrastructure or something like that.Akshat [00:03:22]: Yeah, the self-provisioningSwyx [00:03:23]: Self-provisioning.Akshat [00:03:24]: Yeah.Swyx [00:03:24]: Yeah. I can't even remember my own post.Swyx [00:03:26]: And then you put me on the landing page.Akshat [00:03:28]: Yeah. We really like, the term and so we stole it.Swyx [00:03:32]: Because you had the insight that everything can just be in decorators co-located with the code, right?Akshat [00:03:37]: Yeah.Swyx [00:03:37]: Was that a big part of the originalAkshat [00:03:39]: YesSwyx [00:03:39]: Story or it was just like a DX layer?Akshat [00:03:41]: That was, really important because we really didn't want people to spend, so much time, writing YAML, and it seemed like you could really condense the surface area of what you're doing, put it in code so you can operate on it just like you operate on other code, and like build stuff that's more expressive and dynamic. and so yeah, that was always a very important part.Swyx [00:04:04]: Then the pushback is this is a DSL.Akshat [00:04:07]: Yeah.Swyx [00:04:07]: It's you're closed source. I am locked into Modal.Akshat [00:04:11]: Yeah. We never really got pushback for that because the nice thing about Modal is you can bring whatever code you have, and sure, the DSL is at the configuration layer for, what hardware you're using, how you're scaling things up, but you still own the code.Akshat [00:04:27]: And that's, that's been an important, part of our story, even as we do inference now.Swyx [00:04:32]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:04:32]: How much of do you think still stays the same today? Like if you were to build something today, DevX very important, but I feel like, a lot of this has been changed with just hook it up to an agent, have Claude Code, have Codex implement a tool. there's very agent native primitives that are different than if I'm doing this myself, right?Developer Experience → Agent ExperienceAkshat [00:04:54]: We've changed our SDK team to think about agent experience instead of, developer experience and we think that the same benefits that apply for DX also apply for AX, which is why would you have an agent read through hundreds of Kubernetes files and like write YAML that's not even typed when it can make a couple of changes in a decorator and it gets this self-provisioning runtime of, being able to see its changes live in action? yeah, it just seems from the customers we talk to, they find Modal is much faster for agents to use versus operating on a different substrate.Swyx [00:05:34]: Yeah, because like you, again, you co-locate the infrastructure requirements to the code that runs it.Akshat [00:05:38]: Yeah.Swyx [00:05:38]: Well, the negative thesis now is that nobody's looking at their code anymore, so there's no point.Akshat [00:05:44]: Yeah, people aren't looking at code. one thing we still see is really important is observability.Swyx [00:05:51]: Yeah.Akshat [00:05:51]: Like how good is your dashboard? And of course, like we have, we push a lot of it to the CLI so the agents can do their own investigation, but you still need humans to go interpret what's going on and, make judgment calls and whatnot. and that's I feel like, Maybe more important now than looking at the code itself.Swyx [00:06:11]: Yes, because like, you can try to treat the code as a black box and then use, see the observable action that comes out of it, and then just prompt a change.What Modal Is For: AI Cloud PrimitivesAkshat [00:06:21]: Yeah.Swyx [00:06:22]: So I think it takes a bit of restraint to not specialize, to say, “I want to ship a new primitive,” and then just be general purpose.Swyx [00:06:31]: People ask you, “What are you for?” You're like, “ I don't know. We can do this, we can do that.”Vibhu [00:06:36]: Well, I'd be curious to see, like, okay, if we were to ask you, like, what is Modal for even at a high level? There's a lot you guys do, sandboxes, GPUs, everything. How do you answer?Akshat [00:06:46]: Modal is a cloud platform that's built for, where we've built the primitives from scratch for AI applications. and right now it covers, inference, training, batch processing, and sandbox workloads.Akshat [00:07:00]: But we're building a lot moreSwyx [00:07:02]: I noticed you didn't say web server, so there is still a role for, like, the always-on large-scale Kubernetes type things.Akshat [00:07:09]: Yeah, absolutely. We're, we're not trying to compete with the renders of the world, because yeah, we think the differentiator for us is the, are the workloads that need specialized compute, need to scale up and down a lot. yeah, they're, they're, they're just shaped differently.Working Alongside Frontier StartupsVibhu [00:07:26]: I think you're building a lot of it alongside the startups, right? They're innovating quite a bit, even in your, like, latest blog post. Like, even in the series C, the customers that you mention here, the cognitions, technical ones, ramps and whatnot, they're, they're innovating with you, right? And that's not something AWS is doing directly with.Akshat [00:07:45]: Yeah, absolutely. I think, this is again classic. We're a small team. We can move really fast. our engineers are working with our customers and figuring it out. Yeah.Swyx [00:07:54]: So my first week at Cognition, I walked in, there was someone wearing a Modal shirt. I was like, “What are you doing here?” They're like, “Yeah, I just. I am embedded inside of Cog.”Akshat [00:08:05]: Yeah, I think that was Peyton. We sent him overSwyx [00:08:07]: Yeah.Akshat [00:08:07]: Because, the latency of communication was too high otherwise.Swyx [00:08:12]: Yeah, distributed node, you have to - you have to place one and collocate.Vibhu [00:08:16]: Yeah.Swyx [00:08:16]: So I had a, I had direct personal experience, right? So I worked on smol developer three years ago. it was inspired by Claude 1. I think you onboarded me at some point, like, just before, and I was like, “Oh, like, I need some bursty compute. Like, I was just gonna try using Modal.” And it was a, it was a pretty pleasant experience. apparently, I showed up in the board meeting, like the analytics.smol developer, Sandboxes, and Proto-CognitionAkshat [00:08:39]: Yeah, you blew up on Hacker News and,Swyx [00:08:41]: YeahAkshat [00:08:41]: We got a big traffic spike. I. I think the way you used smol developer was Modal functions for running stuff, which was. Like, the, that was a good use case. but then, yeah.Swyx [00:08:53]: Yeah. That - So to me, that was proto-cognition.Akshat [00:08:55]: Right.Swyx [00:08:56]: If only I had, like, stuck to it.Swyx [00:08:58]: Like, that was like, if - did you say draw the tech treeAkshat [00:09:00]: AbsolutelySwyx [00:09:00]: You're just like, “Yeah, like, probably this will happen.”Akshat [00:09:02]: Yeah. Like, he was so close. You were just rebuilding upon usSwyx [00:09:04]: I just didn't realize.Akshat [00:09:05]: But the funny story there is at the same time, we were talking to a bunch of customers who needed something like sandboxing.Swyx [00:09:14]: Yeah.Akshat [00:09:14]: This is like twenty-three.Swyx [00:09:15]: Yeah.Akshat [00:09:16]: So we builtSwyx [00:09:17]: You introduced a new API right after that.Akshat [00:09:18]: Yeah.Swyx [00:09:19]: Yes.Akshat [00:09:19]: Like, we built sandboxes in May of twenty-three before anyone was even knew this was gonna be a thing. And the first example we published was, we took smol developerSwyx [00:09:28]: Smol developerAkshat [00:09:28]: And put it in a loop, so the agent can iterate on itself.Swyx [00:09:33]: Loops are hot these days.Vibhu [00:09:34]: It's the looper.Akshat [00:09:34]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:09:35]: Loops in. When was this, twenty-three?Akshat [00:09:38]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:09:39]: A small check.Akshat [00:09:39]: Yeah.Swyx [00:09:39]: It's like twenty-three. so the. the, those for listeners, like, the problem was the models are not built for any of this, right?Swyx [00:09:46]: Like, you're just trying to like. They're not post-training to understand, like, looping and, like, self-correction and tool calling was there, but, like, also not that great.Akshat [00:09:55]: Yeah.Akshat [00:09:55]: I don't remember if you used tool calling in this one, but yeah, the models would just diverge after like ten iterations and not produce anything meaningful.Swyx [00:10:03]: Yeah. But like, then. So okay, like now talking to myself three years ago, the answerVibhu [00:10:08]: Of course they will get betterSwyx [00:10:09]: Collect all the failures, build benchmark, and then collect all the, examples, build the RL environmentAkshat [00:10:15]: RightSwyx [00:10:15]: Sell it for like ten billion dollars to Meta.Swyx [00:10:17]: And then also train a model and then sell that for sixty billion dollars to Elon. And this isAkshat [00:10:23]: Yeah, of courseSwyx [00:10:23]: The funny machine. Like, it's like, it's about the hardware.Akshat [00:10:28]: It's hard to have that inherent conviction that the stuff will get that much better.Swyx [00:10:33]: In retrospect, it's so f*****g obvious.Akshat [00:10:36]: Fair enough.Swyx [00:10:37]: Like, what else were we doing back then? I don't know. anyway. Yeah. So this. That was the start of your sandboxing journey, right? I feel like it didn't blow up until, like, last year.Akshat [00:10:49]: Yeah.Swyx [00:10:50]: So there was like a couple years of quietness.Akshat [00:10:52]: Exactly, yeah. We wereVibhu [00:10:53]: I think very underrated product value. Like, my experience with Modal, Charles, before he had joined Modal, met this guy at a hackathon, and he really insisted we wanted to run some small model, not hosted anywhere, and he's like, “ there's this cool company, Modal. They'll like spin up a GPU sandbox, we can throw it on there. They'll take a Hugging Face link.” And like there's so much value just right there, right? Like instant hosting, spin it up, spin it down. It'll stay cold, but we run the demo a few days later, it'll come back up and like all this stuff in retrospect, like it's still what we needed like today.Akshat [00:11:27]: Yeah, it's still needed today. workload shapes have changed a lot as, we run stuff for people with really massive production scale and, there it's it's not about scaling from zero to one, but it's how do we scale really elastically, from like thousand to fifteen hundred GPUs very quickly in a given region. It's the same shape problem.Elastic Inference, GPU Autoscaling, and Custom ModelsVibhu [00:11:50]: Okay. So you look at, say, Cursor Composer, right?Akshat [00:11:53]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:11:53]: They had a. “We'll do RL on a model every couple hours.” you guys have a whole version of RL inference gym and whatnot.Vibhu [00:12:01]: When you look at workloads like that, you're doing train runs where you need to scale up, scale down every hour thousands of GPUs, right? That's the example for we do need it, right?Akshat [00:12:12]: Yeah. Well, so I'll, I'll take a step back and, maybe talk about like how people use Modal today. because our biggest use case is, elastic inference. And the thing we first found product market fit, with was inference for custom models. So we stayed away from the LLM space, and we were serving companies like Suno for audio, Runway for video, robotics, comp bio companies that train their own model elsewhere. But Modal is the best black box that for deployment, scaling to however many GPUs you need as your traffic pattern changes. And we saw all of them like have a very unpredict- predict- predictable, traffic pattern. it's like diurnal. It's Some days, like the company will do a launch and, they'll need like, way more. And it's not just one model that they deploy. They-- all these companies deploy, lots of different models in different regions, and so the autoscaling problem becomes even harder because then you have to scale within a certain region, and those cycles are offset. So different times you scale up in different regions.Akshat [00:13:20]: So that's like our sortVibhu [00:13:22]: And thatAkshat [00:13:22]: YeahVibhu [00:13:22]: That in and of itself is a huge category. There's a bunch of inference providers which, provide this fireworks, does this as a service together, whatnot, Base10. that's carved into its own niche for language models, at least right now.Akshat [00:13:36]: Yeah. the thing that we have specialized in is the autoscaling aspect.Vibhu [00:13:41]: Yeah.Akshat [00:13:41]: Because we found that it's not universally true that everyone else can autoscale, and we've gone deeper into it on the tech side by, we've incorporated GPU snapshotting into the product so we can take the GPU state, like your torch.compile model, snapshot it, and the next cold start is way faster. And so going back to your question, it's That's why you need a lot of burstiness for inference. But then people also do a lot of demand training, like for RL stuff, your rollouts are bursty, as you said. People also do a lot of batch jobs. So we'll see, a lot of companies, before they have a training run, they'll need thousands of GPUs to run encoding or something like that. And I think those things are much more bursty than. I agree that agents are not that bursty. sandboxes are, except when you're doing RL. RL is justRL, Batch Jobs, and 100,000 SandboxesVibhu [00:14:28]: Or commerceAkshat [00:14:28]: Insanely bursty.Vibhu [00:14:29]: Yeah.Akshat [00:14:30]: Yeah. Like when you're doing, rollouts, you sometimes need a hundred thousand sandboxes in your sandboxes.Vibhu [00:14:37]: Yeah. I'm curious if you've seen early sparks of continual learning. There are some people, like our friends, ngram, recently announced thisAkshat [00:14:45]: YeahVibhu [00:14:45]: They're, they're trying to do training. That also seems like a different workload, right? If you're doing training twenty-four/seven per se, there's a very weird dynamic of how you're using GPUs between people and whatnot, but seems like something you guys would work for.Akshat [00:15:00]: As you said, we're, we're fortunate to work with a number of, customers at the frontier and grab some of our customers. and they are taking the primitives we have, and trying to use them in very interesting ways, like continual learning. It's possible as the stuff gets better, some of that will be part of, our offering as well if, more people need it. but we're, we're just waiting to seeVibhu [00:15:23]: YeahAkshat [00:15:23]: How it shakes out.Vibhu [00:15:24]: Is there a primitive that you added after sandboxing that was the next step in the story?LLM Inference, DeFlash, and Speculative DecodingAkshat [00:15:32]: I guess we've been going much deeper into LLM inferenceVibhu [00:15:35]: YeahAkshat [00:15:35]: Because we realized that some of the advantages we have with like autoscaling, again, especially in different regions and whatnot, are, not present elsewhere. and the place where we had a gap was we weren't, working on the model layer itself. Like we were a black box. And, we realized that, we can get to frontier-level model performance, with, by having great people who work on this. And, we've been open sourcing a lot of our work, in terms of, Recently, we, shared our work on DeFlash, which is a block-based, speculator, and we've open sourced, all of it. So, you can - By using open source DeFlash, you can get the same performance as you would with one of the proprietary providers. And the next thing we're thinking about hereVibhu [00:16:23]: I thought this wasAkshat [00:16:24]: YeahVibhu [00:16:24]: An interesting blog post as well, right? Like, I think in here you make a claim that. Not a claim, just that how effective speculative deco-decoding really just get to.Akshat [00:16:33]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:16:33]: Anything you wanna point out from this around, what people should know?Akshat [00:16:39]: Yeah, absolutely. the high-level summary is, it would help to describe what speculative decoding is.Vibhu [00:16:44]: Yes.Akshat [00:16:44]: I will, yes.Vibhu [00:16:45]: I think, likeAkshat [00:16:46]: YeahVibhu [00:16:46]: So we've covered like Eagle and all thisAkshat [00:16:47]: YeahVibhu [00:16:47]: Like Hydra and all those things, but it was like two years ago.Akshat [00:16:51]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:16:51]: I think it doesn't hurt, right?Akshat [00:16:52]: Yeah. Speculative decoding is you have a smaller model, called a draft model, predict tokens ahead of the bigger model, and then you have the bigger model, verify all of this, all the tokens are predicted. And the reason it's faster is if you're predicting, one token at once, you're bound by memory bandwidth. But if you can batch the verification of, the draft model, then you're much more efficient using compute, and it's faster, and as long as your draft model is producing a lot of tokens that can get accepted, which is called the accept length, you can get a speed up that's, multiple times of, the original model speed. and well, that's what we highlight here. It's Like people talk a lot about we made these kernels faster and whatnot, but improving kernel will only give you like few percentage points of improvement, and, increasing accept length, literally is a multiplicative decreaseVibhu [00:17:47]: Like two to four X.Akshat [00:17:48]: Yeah, exactly.Vibhu [00:17:48]: Without much head-on performance.Akshat [00:17:50]: Yeah. I think it may - you are running a second model, right? So it may be something more expensive in the compute,Vibhu [00:17:57]: I meant quality performanceAkshat [00:17:58]: Probably not by muchVibhu [00:17:58]: But yeah. I thinkAkshat [00:17:59]: So there's no drop in quality performanceVibhu [00:18:01]: YeahAkshat [00:18:01]: Because you're always. You're never accepting a token that the big modelVibhu [00:18:04]: It's strictly betterAkshat [00:18:05]: YeahVibhu [00:18:05]: Or it's same.Akshat [00:18:06]: Exactly.Vibhu [00:18:07]: Right. Yeah.Akshat [00:18:08]: And so we've been working a bunch on DeFlash, which is a block-based speculator. so it's instead of predicting, one token at a time, it's predicting a block. And we've been open sourcing our work with it. The next thing for us here is for helping people train speculators and custom models. it's it's something that traditionally is very forward-deployed engineering driven, support deployed, engineer driven, like you work with customers and help them do that. And our vision for. This is why we launched Auto Endpoints, is we want to make frontier-level performance available to everyone. And so, we mentioned this in the announcement, we teased it. The next thing we're, we're launching is, as you run an auto endpoint, we shadow trafficAuto Endpoints and Frontier-Level PerformanceVibhu [00:18:54]: Do you want to explain what auto endpoints are?Akshat [00:18:57]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:18:57]: I lovely, yeah.Akshat [00:18:58]: Yeah. So, this is, I guess, going back to your Modal is you touch the code, but, sometimes people don't wanna touch the code, and they wanna get started with an endpoint that works and has all the great performance and, scalability that Modal has. So we've made that easier with, a way to create an endpoint from our UI, from the CLI, that has all of our optimizations that we talked about, like the DeFlash stuff already baked in, and there's full transparency. So we give you the code, you can go run it yourself, and if you want, you can eject out into the full Modal experience, which we see as people get sophisticated, they do wanna tweak the models, they wanna, fine-tune stuff. You can still do all of that. It's it's not a black box. And yeah, the next thing, as we teased later in the post, is how do we give you value even beyond this in terms of having your draft models evolve as your data distribution evolves, again, without having to talk to a person and, yeah.Vibhu [00:19:59]: I guess just to understand it directly, you have the GPUs, you have an endpoint that's compatible, you serve open model. If someone was to do this themselves, what's the delta that you guys provide? So you do a lot of open source great work on effective inference. how does it compare to, say, I take the same model, 5.2 FP8, take shelf inference engine, vLLM, SGLang, get compute of similar capacity, similar cost. What's the delta that plugging into something this, like this offers outside of the benefit of, scaling?Production Inference Beyond Raw GPUsAkshat [00:20:34]: It's interesting because we've taken the approach of open sourcing our contributions and upstreaming them. we work closely with the SGLang team. We want the improvements that our team, comes up with to be, there in open source for others to use, even outside of Modal. The benefit to us is we have a team that has significant expertise in terms of if you do have something that is not there, our team can help you get that performance, first. the other thing is with these endpoints, we are way more elastic, as you said, than, anyone else, and you have true scaling to zero. you have true, burstiness, and in practice, that matters a lot more to people than just finding, the GPU and, running Modal code on something.Vibhu [00:21:20]: Yeah. And I will say it's not that straightforward to just. like what I said is easier said than done, right?Akshat [00:21:26]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:21:27]: It's I think still for the average person, still hard to just gut check using different. There's, there's quite a bit of combinations you can make there. the trade-offs aren't really known at face value.Akshat [00:21:40]: Yeah. it's it's not just that. I think it's it's that running production-grade inference is a hard infer problem.Vibhu [00:21:49]: YeahAkshat [00:21:49]: Even if you subtract out the autoscalingVibhu [00:21:50]: YeahAkshat [00:21:51]: Is controlling things like tail latency and, making sure every, request is delivered at least once and whatnot.The Model and Agent LifecycleVibhu [00:22:00]: There's a lot of innovation that you can do here. I think, it's very interesting that you're starting to encroach on, like as you become a full cloud, you're starting to encroach on other people's turf.Vibhu [00:22:09]: What will you not do?Akshat [00:22:13]: Well, we wanna follow our users and, make sure they get like a platform that has everything that works well together. so right now we're focused on the model lifecycle and the agent, lifecycle. so both like going from data prep to training to inference, and then also if I want to deploy a background agent, let's say, sandbox, do persistent storage, a whole bunch of other stuff.Vibhu [00:22:38]: We talked to Cole, who did, OpenInspect. Yeah.Akshat [00:22:42]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:22:42]: And RealInspect also is on Modal.Akshat [00:22:44]: Yeah. So Ramp Inspect was a great example of a background agent that was really successful because they, were able to use some of the primitives like snapshotting and fast scaling to just have something that feels really reactive and works well.Ramp Inspect and Background AgentsVibhu [00:23:02]: Yeah. That's the new CTO of, Ramp right there.Akshat [00:23:05]: Yeah, Rahul.Vibhu [00:23:08]: It was really fun. yeah, okay, I think, all very bullish. Like, one of my reflections was also I did not originally. So when I met you guysThe Inference Inflection: CPU, GPU, and Co-LocationVibhu [00:23:19]: You weren't that much in the GPU game, and now you're all about, inference. And one of the points that I hinged on for Jensen's keynote at GTC this year was, what we're calling like the inference inflection, right? That let's say in AI workloads or machine learning workloads, it used to be like, let's call it eight to one GPU to CPU, and now it's more like one to one, which is like a interesting. Like, - because of how much agents are blocked or call out to this, to CPU heavy stuff the actual, like, limiting factor, like, swings back and forth from GPU to CPU a lot more than it used to be all GPU and then occasional CPU.Akshat [00:24:01]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:24:02]: GPU, CPU. And now it's like just constantly, and you just have to locate everything.Seventeen Clouds and the Supercloud StrategyAkshat [00:24:08]: Yeah. And that's one of the things that, again, we see as, something appealing about Modal, which is we've built this capacity pool that spans, 17 cloud providers, so we're, we're very good at Running on various kinds of cloud capacity across the worldSwyx [00:24:24]: You don't have your own data centers?Akshat [00:24:25]: We don't have our own data centers. We just run across a lot of neo cloudsSwyx [00:24:29]: Yeah. AreAkshat [00:24:30]: Metal providers.Swyx [00:24:30]: Yeah. Question mark.Swyx [00:24:31]: Yeah. You're, you're running the math, and you're like, “What's the cutover point where you're like.”Akshat [00:24:36]: Yeah, it's a good question. part of it is we see our differentiator in the software layer, and, being capital light and focusing on the software helps us move really fast. so far it's worked out well because there are so many other people building data centers that we're able to work effectively with them, and again, focus on what makes us, special.Swyx [00:24:55]: Yeah.Swyx [00:24:56]: 17 gets you into, like, the local providers sometimes. LikeAkshat [00:25:00]: The,Swyx [00:25:01]: Which was the most interesting one?Akshat [00:25:02]: There are a lot more neo clouds than you expect, and they all have various degrees of, various levels of reliability. And, that's why it's something we've invested a lot of time in, is building our own reliability layer on top. so if the GPU falls off the bus or something happens, we user workloads are not affected, and that lets us use a lot more capacity than,Swyx [00:25:30]: YeahAkshat [00:25:30]: You as a user would be able to.Swyx [00:25:32]: It's a useful thing to have because like now everyone knows, like, what layer you are and, like, you optimize for being the super cloud of all clouds.Akshat [00:25:41]: Yeah. That's, that's, that's the idea. and so I guess when you mentioned colocation, that's, that's another interesting thing where, one thing we've seen is people come to us when they want, very specifically located, CPUs or GPUs, like they wantSwyx [00:25:57]: Oh, they pin it in likeAkshat [00:25:58]: YeahSwyx [00:25:58]: EU?Akshat [00:25:59]: Exactly. Or EU, US.Swyx [00:26:01]: Right. Data resiliencyAkshat [00:26:02]: AustraliaSwyx [00:26:02]: Locality thing or performance or what?Akshat [00:26:04]: It's either data locality or latency, yeah.Swyx [00:26:07]: Yeah.Akshat [00:26:07]: Like, you want your. They're running sandboxes and model. They want them to be right next to aSwyx [00:26:10]: Yeah, it's easy thenAkshat [00:26:11]: YeahSwyx [00:26:12]: To. That is important in all those things. and so, like, you've accidentally, I don't know if it's accident, but, like, you've built the perfect primitive for agents to express themselves. And then, like, it's almost very funny how every extra development just involves more file system, just involves more CPU.Akshat [00:26:30]: Yeah.Swyx [00:26:31]: Just like the things that you already have. I don't know much about, if there's any, like, networking usages that are interesting, but you've also done some good work on networking.Networking, Sidecars, Private IPv6, and SandboxesAkshat [00:26:40]: Yeah, that's exactly right. Like, we're just taking compute storage and networking and building stuff on that layer, for, again, the stuff people need.Swyx [00:26:49]: YeahAkshat [00:26:50]: We see a few interesting networking things coming up. one is people want networked sandboxes. so we haveSwyx [00:26:57]: For like a Docker cluster type thing.Akshat [00:26:59]: Yeah.Swyx [00:26:59]: Sorry, Docker Swarm. Oh, f**k. What is it called?Akshat [00:27:02]: Compose.Swyx [00:27:03]: Compose type thing.Akshat [00:27:04]: Yeah. So if you want Docker Compose, our sandboxes now support, this thing called sidecars. So you can. A sandbox is a pod of containers, and you can run multiple containers in, a sandbox. also useful because, going back to networking, people want a lot of control over, outbound networking from a sandbox.Swyx [00:27:23]: Yeah.Akshat [00:27:23]: Like, they might wanna run a middle proxy for, like, maybe logging stuff for RL or, controlling how egress can happen to a domain, injecting credentials. and yeah. So we've, we've had to build a lot of that stuff ourselves.Swyx [00:27:38]: Yeah.Akshat [00:27:39]: But then also sometimes people want, sandboxes spanning multiple nodes to talk to each other, which is an emerging thing we're seeing. We have support for that for a different reason, and yeah, we'll see if that becomes stable.Swyx [00:27:52]: Like, just an open socket. It's a. This is directly like mTLS.Akshat [00:27:56]: We do support that, which is you can, expose a tunnel inside a sandbox.Swyx [00:28:01]: Yeah.Akshat [00:28:01]: And then you can either expose it to public internet or it can be, you can add like a HTTP, auth layer above it. But we have this thing called I6PN, which we haven't talked about, which is this, like, overlay network using IPv6 addresses. so if Modal containers, within the same workspace, when this is enabled, can address each other using this private IPv6 address, and no one else can.Akshat [00:28:28]: So it's like private networking, for containers. We built it because we needed it as a primitive for our distributed training product. so we have this other feature, which is you can add a decorator to a function, and you get a cluster of GPUs. and they have RDMA networking. so you can run a distributed training job, that's truly serverless. and we did the overlay network for that. But then we've seen that people are using it for other reasons, and, I'm intrigued to yeah, what would people do with it.Swyx [00:28:59]: Build primitives and let people figure it out, right?Akshat [00:29:01]: Yeah, exactly.Swyx [00:29:02]: You put out a pretty interestingAkshat [00:29:03]: They're like, they read the docs webpage. Let me use thatSwyx [00:29:06]: YeahAkshat [00:29:06]: Something they never intended to work. This is literally not even in our docs page. People somehow found it, and they're using it.RDMA, Memory Movement, and Distributed TrainingSwyx [00:29:12]: Huh.Swyx [00:29:14]: The way you portrayed it with, like, RDMA versus TCP, like, very well laid out, but just the transfer speed change at scale for RL, like yeah, you have it, you have it built in. I'm sure someone found it. It's found it to be a lot more efficient before you made a thing out of it, right?Akshat [00:29:32]: Yeah. And not to split hairs, I guess the overlay network is the TCP overlay network.Akshat [00:29:39]: The reason we have that is you need that to do the key exchange for RDMA before you set up the RDMA network on top of that. but then people found the TCP part.Swyx [00:29:48]: Can I tell you, this is like a big aha moment for me becauseAkshat [00:29:51]: YeahSwyx [00:29:51]: So I review 2,200 submissions for the World's Fair.Akshat [00:29:56]: Yeah.Swyx [00:29:57]: And then I got this from John OsterhoutAkshat [00:29:58]: HuhSwyx [00:29:59]: Who I don't know if. Do John Osterhout by name?Akshat [00:30:01]: The name sounds familiar.Swyx [00:30:02]: He published a. He's a well-known professor, published a lot of interesting software design books, and this is the talk he chose to submit, is on RDMA at Inference. And I'm like, you wouldn't think that this guy, who is like operating systems guy, would care about RDMA.Akshat [00:30:20]: I, it makes sense to me because I,Swyx [00:30:24]: This is the cloud, right? YeahAkshat [00:30:25]: Like, the way you move around your KV cache and how efficiently you can do it, how efficiently you move, your weights from your training GPUs to your inference GPUs in RL is there's a lot of degrees of freedom, and it is a systems problemSwyx [00:30:41]: YeahAkshat [00:30:41]: Moving memory aroundSwyx [00:30:42]: YeahAkshat [00:30:43]: Scheduling.Swyx [00:30:44]: This shows you how primitive my understanding of networking stuff is.Swyx [00:30:46]: Is this like the domain of WireGuard as well?Akshat [00:30:50]: Not quite.Swyx [00:30:51]: It's adjacent?Swyx [00:30:53]: Explain everything.Akshat [00:30:54]: Sure.Swyx [00:30:56]: How do we move memory around GPUs?Akshat [00:30:58]: Well, so sorry. Yeah, that is memory. Sorry, I was talking more, and maybe I was talking like five minutes back, about the private IPv6, addressing that you've set up.Swyx [00:31:09]: Yeah.Akshat [00:31:09]: Is it like it's a VPN?Swyx [00:31:10]: Yeah, it is like a VPN, and yeah, WireGuard is, yeah, you're right. It is,Akshat [00:31:16]: Right. Yeah, you already moved on to new topicsSwyx [00:31:17]: A similarAkshat [00:31:18]: OkaySwyx [00:31:19]: In the same space, WireGuard is, encrypted and this is,Akshat [00:31:23]: And you don't need encryption.Swyx [00:31:23]: Yeah.Akshat [00:31:24]: Yeah.Swyx [00:31:24]: This is not encrypted. that's the main difference. This is TCP and we have eBPF programs that will reject or allow the TCP connection based on whether you're allowed to do it.Akshat [00:31:35]: Used to involve a full sidecar, but now you have eBPF in the Linux kernel.Swyx [00:31:39]: Yeah.Akshat [00:31:40]: Yeah. I don't know if this is a natural follow-on to the topic of like my skepticism on distributed training is that while, like, people spend a lot of money on, like, cables to hook up GPUs, and even that is not, like, fast enough, and that's the bottleneck, is your networking fast enough?Swyx [00:31:59]: Yeah. So I guess you're talking about fully distributed training like, Dialog or something which is like cross data centerAkshat [00:32:06]: That would be, yes.Swyx [00:32:07]: That's the extreme.Akshat [00:32:08]: Yeah.Swyx [00:32:08]: You're in the middle, and then other people would have like the Mellanox cables up in, like, their actual data center.Akshat [00:32:14]: When you run multi-node training on Modal, RDMA, I think Mellanox, is, or InfiniBand is like a, is all seen as RDMA. but it's a way to bypass the TCP networking stack and, transfer, stuff much faster, between one node, to the other. And we have I think like 3 terabit per second, internal networkingSwyx [00:32:40]: OkayAkshat [00:32:40]: Which is the standard that's needed.Swyx [00:32:42]: Okay. So I misunderstood whatAkshat [00:32:43]: 50Swyx [00:32:43]: What part of the stack you wereAkshat [00:32:44]: 50 gigs overSwyx [00:32:45]: YeahAkshat [00:32:45]: If you wentSwyx [00:32:45]: YeahAkshat [00:32:46]: RDMA.Swyx [00:32:46]: Okay.Swyx [00:32:48]: Yeah. I, very impressive work.Multi-Node Training, Post-Training, and Auto ResearchSwyx [00:32:52]: So effectively you're extending like the model philosophy to the training cluster, like, yeah.Akshat [00:32:59]: Yeah. And we're, we're not going for like large scale training runs. the thing that we've built multi-node training for is, we see a lot of, smaller scale post-training. like, people are post-training like medium sized fund models, so they can, get higher quality on inference. this is a perfect fit, for something like that.Swyx [00:33:21]: Yeah. That is my impression of how a lot of these labs explore branches in post-training and then eventually merge whatever they find in.Akshat [00:33:31]: Yeah. The other use case we've seen for multi-node training is even if you have a big cluster, your researchers are still doing small runsSwyx [00:33:38]: YesAkshat [00:33:39]: Having elasticity thereSwyx [00:33:40]: Right, sureAkshat [00:33:40]: Matters a lot more.Swyx [00:33:41]: Yeah. the, like, this is like the current limiting factor for auto research, which is like you need to give your model some GPUs in order for it to completely run.Akshat [00:33:51]: We have a blog post on auto resource and model is,Swyx [00:33:55]: YeahAkshat [00:33:56]: Yeah, like, turns out to be pretty good substrate for that.Swyx [00:33:59]: So my impression is auto research means many things, likeAkshat [00:34:01]: YeahSwyx [00:34:01]: Anything that Andrej coins. Right now it's still science fair, right? Like not like, I don't know how many people are doing this.Akshat [00:34:08]: We're having a golf.Swyx [00:34:08]: Yeah.Akshat [00:34:09]: I thought the same thing.Swyx [00:34:11]: Yeah, you would know.Akshat [00:34:12]: We, like, our internal both training and inference teams use this the general shape of this quite a bit. like we have this one internal repo called auto inference, which essentially we've automated our own forward-deployed engineering efforts using, this harness, which is, the agent will just spin up a sweep of different things. It'll even run like, NVIDIA inside profiler and it'll like tweak configs and it'll arrive the right thing. it'll change your GPUs both from H200 to B200, and works really well.Swyx [00:34:47]: Nice.Akshat [00:34:47]: So yeah.Swyx [00:34:48]: By the way, I enjoy that your forward-deployed engineering is so technical that you have to do these things.Swyx [00:34:52]: It's very different from forward-deployed engineering from other people.Akshat [00:34:54]: Yeah. For our forward-deployed engineering team is, essentially they're like applied inference researchers or applied training researchers.Swyx [00:35:02]: Someone told me like they have to be able to build, but they also have to be able to sell. do they have to sell or are they like they're good, they're just like post-sale type of thing?Akshat [00:35:09]: It does, being able to talk to a customer and engage effectively with themSwyx [00:35:13]: YeahAkshat [00:35:13]: Matters a lot.Swyx [00:35:14]: They want the same thing.Akshat [00:35:15]: Yeah.Swyx [00:35:15]: ?Akshat [00:35:15]: But it's it's not really a sales, thing. We pair them with-- We have solution architects as well that are more on the sales side.Swyx [00:35:23]: Okay. Let's spend a bit more time on auto research. This is a big focus for for this year. Where does this go? like, have people explored enough? Like, there's all these beautiful charts of like improve and then level off a bit and then you find the next thing. Is this one abstraction up from normal training? Is that how we think about it, or do you think about it differently? Like model level training versus high, like driven hyperparameter search.Auto Inference and Modal BenchAkshat [00:35:51]: Yeah, like,Swyx [00:35:51]: Someone, some people call it like neural architecture search or whatever, right? Like.Akshat [00:35:54]: Yeah, - So the stuff I've seen people do with it is nowhere on the architecture level. It's pretty much tweaking parameters, but it's it's a hyperparameter sweep that's guided by some model intuition, so it's like much more efficient than, whatever other, sweep you would have.Swyx [00:36:12]: Yeah, it's just, it's just a question of where you want to spend your compute?Akshat [00:36:16]: Right.Swyx [00:36:16]: ‘Cause yeah, you can just throw infinite amounts of money on this and somehow you'll bang out Shakespeare?Akshat [00:36:22]: Yeah, infinite monkey.Swyx [00:36:24]: Yeah, so like the very good for model. and I think it's also very important that agents can spin up other agents, can spin up their infrastructure. Like very good for you. how good is our LLMs at generating model code? Like the benefit of existing LLMs is that you are in the data.Akshat [00:36:42]: Yeah. They're, they're surprisingly good. I think like pre Cloud 4 they were not, and then now they're able to shot, stuff out of the box. But we're playing around with releasing like a Modal Bench for like the harderSwyx [00:36:55]: YeahAkshat [00:36:55]: Things, that the LLMs cannot do yet and maybeSwyx [00:36:59]: What's an example of that?Akshat [00:37:01]: I think the things that- Sometimes agents struggle with, without right guidance and a skill is, how to, use the rest of our observability. Like how to. Something is failing, like how do you look at the logs and then update the right thing? It's reasoning about that. But they're able to shot, likeSwyx [00:37:23]: Yeah. You can just add a skill to it?Compute Strategy and Capacity PlanningAkshat [00:37:26]: Yeah. So we have a Modal skill now that. Which is why we built this Modal Bench. It's to find things like that, so we can address them in our tool.Swyx [00:37:35]: Tune a skill. Yeah.Akshat [00:37:36]: Yeah.Swyx [00:37:36]: No. it's it's good. are you facing any shortages? like we talk a lot about GPU shortages, but also CPU, also memory.Swyx [00:37:44]: Yeah.Akshat [00:37:45]: We have had a lot of growth, which means that, there's - we've had to be much better aboutSwyx [00:37:53]: PlanningAkshat [00:37:54]: Proactive capacity planning.Swyx [00:37:55]: Yeah.Akshat [00:37:55]: So we have,Swyx [00:37:57]: Which by the way, like it's like a MBA's like dreamAkshat [00:38:00]: YesSwyx [00:38:00]: Is like just planning this stuff. I think last time you and I talked about something maybe about this.Akshat [00:38:03]: Yeah. we have a really competent team of people that we call, The role is called compute strategy. so yeah, if anyone listening here or wants to work on thatSwyx [00:38:13]: Compute strategy?Akshat [00:38:13]: Yeah.Swyx [00:38:14]: I think,Akshat [00:38:14]: I feel like,Swyx [00:38:15]: I think the normies call it FP&A or something.Akshat [00:38:18]: Well, it's more It's it's not FP&A. It's it's There's a lot of interesting financial questions of like what is the blend between one year and three-year reservations? how do we forecast our own capacity? how do we. especially since our capacity is very fungible across different GPU types and different regions, like you have to model a lot of it. and you also have to have an opinion on how the supply chain is gonna evolve, and then you have to like, take bets,Swyx [00:38:49]: YeahAkshat [00:38:49]: Based on that.Swyx [00:38:50]: Tokenomics.Akshat [00:38:50]: Yeah.Swyx [00:38:51]: This is like probably a not a real point, but, I was trying to think about like what other industries. I was trying to think about like, we cannot be first to like these kinds of problems.Akshat [00:38:59]: Yeah.Swyx [00:39:00]: And what other industries have had this? And I was like, airlines with fuel and like they have to hedge their fuel and like, I think for a long time Southwest because they made like a hero fuel bet, they like were like super low cost becauseAkshat [00:39:12]: OhSwyx [00:39:12]: Compared to everyone else.Akshat [00:39:14]: Yeah. I hadn't thought about that.Vibhu [00:39:16]: We're at a fun time too?Akshat [00:39:18]: Yeah. It's. A lot of the compute business in general, for us is also about being very good about capacity management. That is how you have great unit, economics. but also over time it's how you can unlock more value for customers. Like, one of the things we're building now is like a way for customers to get, If they don't care about latency, like get much cheaper pricing and they'll get results back in like next 24 hours or something, like a batch tier essentially.Batch Tiers and Latency-Insensitive WorkloadsSwyx [00:39:47]: Yeah.Akshat [00:39:47]: And those are levers we have because we control the whole stack and scheduling and whatnot to give people a sufficientSwyx [00:39:53]: Yeah. I feel like they're not as popular. Like those, like the Frontier Labs have all those APIs. They're not as popular as they should be.Akshat [00:40:00]: The demand that we see for something like that is not for LLMs. although sometimes people wanna run evals andSwyx [00:40:08]: OkayAkshat [00:40:08]: Synthetic data prep and there it makes sense.Swyx [00:40:10]: Okay.Akshat [00:40:11]: But it's from a lot of LLM companies, like people who are doing computational bio, like they have to run really big batch jobs and they don't care about when they get it back.Swyx [00:40:22]: Yeah. And like they have a reasonable. It's it's also like a cousin to the stopping problem of like, will this finish in time?Akshat [00:40:30]: Yeah. You can bound it.Swyx [00:40:33]: Yeah.Akshat [00:40:33]: Like you can give peopleSwyx [00:40:34]: YeahAkshat [00:40:34]: SLAs on it.Swyx [00:40:35]: Yeah. I think what's, what's interesting is like the next phase of model.Swyx [00:40:38]: Like what, do people expect from you, now that you're established and you're like well-known compute player among all these leading companies. You had an inference launch week, and we talked a little bit about the launches. like what else? Like what else should people know?What Modal Builds NextAkshat [00:40:55]: We are building primitives that make our users' lives much easier. So, I think for example, with LLM inference, thousands more companies are gonna post-train their own models and, deploy open source models for inference. so we're thinking a lot about what is the best product shape for that. And, that involves everything from our training gym to, then, endpoints that get frontier-level performance. again, but I haven't talked to anyone. It looks somewhat different on other verticals. Like, we're also seeing a lot of real-time, audio-video stuff in there, which is why like, we're working on things like regional routing, with fallbacks. So you can get GPUs that are as close to users as possible. so you get like low latency for video streaming and whatnot. And then on the agent side, it's,Akshat [00:41:52]: We're still working very closely with our customers because stuff is changing so fast in terms of what they need. And, I think beyond sandboxes and persistent file systems, there's a lot of other things people will need from this agent stack as they build production agents. So yeah, we're thinking about those other things that fit in there.Swyx [00:42:13]: I want to ask what the other things are.Akshat [00:42:15]: Yeah. I probably should share right now.Swyx [00:42:17]: I think-- I think, okay, so, I do think a lot about the principal components of cloud, and you do talk about compute storage networking.Akshat [00:42:25]: Yeah.Swyx [00:42:25]: Because so far for me, it's fine. so far for the. the first couple generations of cloud, it's fine. What's different, qualitatively different about agents that you need some new permission level? Like a lot of people, okay, and I'll just kinda spew tokens at you until it like hopefully sparks something.Akshat [00:42:43]: Yeah.Swyx [00:42:44]: Like the new level now is whatever Claude Code does, which is dangerously scope permissions or like allow list by command or like whatever, right? And sometimes they're like, “Well, okay, we have like this adaptive thinking mode where like, just trust me, bro. I will make the calls for you.” Is that it? like mediated permissions.Hard Guardrails vs. LLM-Mediated PermissionsVibhu [00:43:03]: Now you're looping it with a goal and letting it roll.Akshat [00:43:06]: Yeah, I'm, I'm skeptical of LLM media permission for stuff that is at the sandbox level because you do want hard boundaries.Swyx [00:43:16]: Yeah.Akshat [00:43:16]: Otherwise, someone can exfiltrate stuff.Swyx [00:43:20]: But likeAkshat [00:43:20]: YeahSwyx [00:43:20]: Maybe that's old school thinking. Maybe we're the dinosaurs.Swyx [00:43:23]: Maybe the AI OS or the LLM OS is really the kernel is a goddamn LLM.Swyx [00:43:30]: Like it makes you feel uncomfortable.Akshat [00:43:31]: Yeah, I'm, I'm toldSwyx [00:43:32]: But that's what trusting the LLM is. Like imagine a spherical cow perfect LLM.Akshat [00:43:36]: Right.Swyx [00:43:37]: That it.Akshat [00:43:39]: Maybe.Swyx [00:43:41]: I wanna test the boundaries, right?Akshat [00:43:42]: Yeah.Swyx [00:43:42]: Like, and I don't believe that, but I wanna see where I'm wrong ‘cause that's, that's the consensus.Akshat [00:43:49]: Yeah. I think you always need hard guardrails when you want, And you can pair those with softer guardrails, right? And that's gonna be a lot of mediated.Managed Agents and Specialized SandboxesSwyx [00:44:00]: There. I'll also get you a end with a couple of your commentary on like the ecosystem outside of Modal. Manage agents. Everyone has one. Gemini, OpenAI, Claude, very useful for you, but also like it is their way of starting to edge into your space.Akshat [00:44:17]: Yeah.Swyx [00:44:17]: What's going on?Akshat [00:44:19]: Yeah, we're, very excited to partner with Anthropic and some of the other foundation labs, will not name who we're also working with. the way we see it is the manage agent thing is a great place to start if you're starting out building an agent and, But then when you get to, building something more production grade, like you're a company that's like Ramp that's building their own, Ramp also runs their accounting agent on us, so their external-facing agent. You need a lot more control over, your compute primitive on things like, what sort - how do you persist different files that the agent has access to, and how do you snapshot and restore? How do you control the networking? maybe you want GPUs. When you get to that point, you kinda want, a specialized sandbox provider, that gives you those things, and that's the role that we are trying to play.Swyx [00:45:15]: YeahAkshat [00:45:16]: We don't really have an opinion on the harness, whether it runs - it's a cloud-managed agent, and you hook it up to Model Sandbox, or you run the harness in Model Sandbox. We'll see where people converge with that.Swyx [00:45:26]: Yeah. Do you any opinions on like the meta harnesses, or just another layer on top of these things?Akshat [00:45:31]: You mean like the OpenPipeSwyx [00:45:33]: OpenPipe is one. I think Vercel had one, which I can't remember the name of right now. Fredshot had one. and then, to me, most recently was Data Databricks that had Omnigen. All these are meta harness. Like it's kinda pseudo agent cloud type things.Akshat [00:45:50]: I personally have not played around with them.Swyx [00:45:53]: Yeah.Akshat [00:45:53]: Build agents with them.Swyx [00:45:54]: Everything's bullish Modal, as long as it consumes more infra.Akshat [00:45:57]: That's why we're focusing on the infra layer. It's somewhere where our, relative competence is and, also it's a hard problem to solve.Swyx [00:46:06]: Yeah. I will say like just generally reflecting on that, I don't know if - if there's other topics on Modal, but like just generally reflecting as an infra person, not as intense as you, but in that field, this has like been the most exciting time in infra. Like it was boring for a while, and you couldn't really get people excited about data infrastructure. Like Eric would get on Data Console, everyone just watched the video and like say, “Look at how many sandboxes I can spin up,” and no one gave a crap.Why Infrastructure Became Exciting AgainAkshat [00:46:39]: Yeah.Swyx [00:46:40]: And like now everyone gives a crap.Akshat [00:46:42]: That's true. It is a very exciting time, and I think a lot of that's driven by just the amount of scale all of this stuff needs.Swyx [00:46:50]: I think the, like a lot of your initiatives or a lot of your like product directions make sense in retrospect, which is like the best kind, but I wouldn't necessarily have thought about it myself, which.Akshat [00:47:00]: We need the predictions.Swyx [00:47:02]: I think there's a lot that you just don't even see, right? Like you have the batch, you have the voice, you have the multimodal, but what else?Akshat [00:47:10]: What else is coming up for usSwyx [00:47:11]: Yeah. Where do you see things going?Akshat [00:47:13]: Yeah. I, in generalBiotech, Robotics, and Non-LLM AI WorkloadsAkshat [00:47:15]: It's it's clear that there's there's a huge shift happening. I think one thing that's not as obvious to people because LLM inference gets talked about so much and is also we work a lot of companies that are, doing things like drug discovery and computational bio, like the Chai Discoveries of the world. Big things are probably gonna happen there. we work a lot of robotics companies that are putting robots in like active deployments and getting good results out of them.Swyx [00:47:45]: Is there Air Gap Modal? Is there a version that is like prem air gapped whatever?Akshat [00:47:50]: No. We,Swyx [00:47:51]: You should cloud only.Akshat [00:47:51]: Yeah.Swyx [00:47:52]: Yeah. Okay. But yeah, so what you're saying is like because you're focused on primitives and they're good primitives, you find use cases in all these kinds of things.Akshat [00:48:01]: Yeah.Swyx [00:48:01]: Probably diversifies you a little bit away from LMS all the time.Akshat [00:48:05]: Yeah, absolutely. We're, we'- our goal isn't to only serve the LLM inference market.Swyx [00:48:10]: There are a lot just on the website, the audio,Akshat [00:48:12]: Yeah. We said both onSwyx [00:48:14]: Computational bio images. Yeah, there's a lot here. There's QTA TTS, customizing. Oh, Chatterbox. there was customizing Whisper.Akshat [00:48:24]: Okay. Yeah.Swyx [00:48:25]: This screen reminds me of a fallen competitor, which Replicate.Model APIs vs. Differentiated AI ProductsSwyx [00:48:31]: What's your postmortem on what happened?Akshat [00:48:34]: This is one thing we've stayed away from is providing an API for models because I think providing model APIs is some of it ends up serving like a really hobbyist market, which is much less sticky.Swyx [00:48:50]: Yeah.Akshat [00:48:50]: And we've always wanted to build for companies that are building products and need more flexibility that's not just an API.Swyx [00:48:57]: Which you can build an API for a model and this is clearly what it is. But you - but what you're saying, you can wrap it into a more fully functioning back end that you run.Akshat [00:49:06]: Yeah. So all of our examples, it's not that spin up this model, here's an API token, use it. They're all code.Swyx [00:49:13]: Okay.Akshat [00:49:13]: And so the point is that this is just an example.Swyx [00:49:16]: Starter code.Akshat [00:49:17]: Yeah. But you can tweak it however you want.Swyx [00:49:20]: Yeah.Akshat [00:49:21]: And if you're like a company building a product, like, computational bio whatnot, yeah.Swyx [00:49:26]: I guess I'm trying to tease out for listenersAkshat [00:49:28]: YeahSwyx [00:49:28]: When does it stop becoming, oh, you're just an API call and you're just a wrapper on API to becoming what you call a product, right?Swyx [00:49:36]: Like, what is that layer? Like what-- Like, more lines of code, but like beyond that, what is the substance that people add that qualifies it to be something more?Akshat [00:49:46]: I think there's a little bit of like a selection effect of like a lot of the companies who do wanna get deeper into that level are probably building something that's more differentiated. And, I think, an example is like - with LLM inference, originally we, worked with companies that were building their own post-training frameworks or they were, - Ramp early in the day was training their own tokenizer and like swapping out the tokenizer in Llama and whatnot. I'm not saying that's, that successful, in that case. But a better example is like, let's say Suno. because Suno, does not use Modal for training.Swyx [00:50:26]: Mikey on the pod. Yeah.Akshat [00:50:27]: But they use Modal for all their inference and that's because they have like a custom-- They have completely custom model architecture and that means that they have to be at the code level and tweak things that are not, just an API.Swyx [00:50:41]: It's interesting as well, like we had, Ethan, most recently on the xAI Groq team make a prediction that like the next tier in video gen is not a better video model, it's a better model or agent that orchestrates video models.Video Agents and Production WorkflowsAkshat [00:50:56]: Oh, interesting.Vibhu [00:50:56]: Language model backbone that can use toolsAkshat [00:50:58]: RightVibhu [00:50:59]: And write code.Akshat [00:51:00]: Like, yes, I can make my second video or my second video from Groq, but I want my minute video.Akshat [00:51:06]: And I'm not going there through normal video gen.Swyx [00:51:10]: Yeah, that's interesting. I - So we have GPU sandboxes and recently have seen a few companies doing agents that do video manipulation or,Akshat [00:51:22]: Yeah. Give it FFmpeg and just do it.Swyx [00:51:23]: Run FFmpeg. But likeAkshat [00:51:25]: That's not enough.Swyx [00:51:25]: Yeah.Akshat [00:51:26]: You need to give it Adobe.Swyx [00:51:27]: Yeah, I hadn't put it together with like it would be a video production thing. in my mind these things were going more towards editingAkshat [00:51:36]: Yeah.Vibhu [00:51:36]: Well, shout out Mantis.Akshat [00:51:37]: I think about this a lot.Swyx [00:51:38]: .Akshat [00:51:41]: Yeah. Sorry.Vibhu [00:51:41]: Luma. Luma Agent is a version of this for video production, but it's a off.Swyx [00:51:46]: I was gonna get your quick takes, on some other stuff that happensGitpod/Ona, CI, and Runtime SandboxesSwyx [00:51:50]: In recent news and just-just see if you have anything interesting. Gitpod, very li

Topics covered in this episode: dust - a better du Hermes Agent: The AI agent that grows with you llm-coding-agent 0.1a0 Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Sponsored by us! Support our work through: Our courses at Talk Python Consulting from Six Feet Up Connect with the hosts Michael: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Calvin: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Show: Mastodon / BlueSky / X Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Tuesday at 7am PT. Older video versions available there too. Finally, if you want an artisanal, hand-crafted digest of every week of the show notes in email form? Add your name and email to our friends of the show list, we'll never share it. Michael #1: dust - a better du du + Rust = dust - a fast, visual, intuitive disk-usage CLI Run dust and immediately see the biggest directories and files without piping through sort, head, or awk Smart recursive output focuses on what matters instead of dumping every folder Colored bars show relative size and parent/child hierarchy, making “where did the space go?” obvious Perfect for Python projects bloated by .venv, caches, Docker volumes, downloaded datasets, and local AI models Install via brew, cargo install du-dust, conda-forge, Scoop, Snap, deb-get, or GitHub releases Calvin #2: A Way better ARchive format for Python packaging war - new archive format spec from Astral (same team as uv/ruff), v0.0.2, still no binary encoding defined yet Header-Index-Store layout: header IDs the file, index maps names to store offsets, store holds compressed data Index uses a finite-state transducer (FST) to dedupe common path prefixes across entry names Supports three entry types (file, directory, link) and three compression modes (store/DEFLATE/zstd), plus an "executable" metadata flag Unpacking is atomic - writes to a temp dir, then renames into place, so a failed extract never leaves a half-unpacked directory Strict name-segment rules (no NUL/control chars, no leading/trailing whitespace, blocks Windows-reserved names like CON/PRN) to avoid path traversal and cross-platform footguns Michael #3: Hermes Agent: The AI agent that grows with you Hermes Agent is an open-source, Python-built AI agent framework from Nous Research - think ChatGPT-style assistant, but connected to your tools, files, shell, browser, calendar, memory, and messaging apps I'm using it in Discord as a long-running agent conversation, not just a one-off chatbot session Hermes can connect through a gateway to platforms like Discord, Telegram, Slack, WhatsApp, email, webhooks, and more - so the same assistant can follow you across surfaces In my setup, I can send Hermes voice/text from Discord, keep project context across turns as threads, and ask it to actually do things: read GitHub repos, run commands, edit files, schedule calendar events, generate drafts, and verify results A fun workflow: I can trigger one-shot actions from an Apple Watch shortcut - dictate a request, send it to Hermes, and have the agent execute it asynchronously Hermes has persistent memory, so it can remember durable preferences and facts - for example, how I like my research formatted It also has “skills,” which are reusable procedures the agent can load later, so Hermes can self-improve over time instead of rediscovering the same workflow repeatedly It supports scheduled jobs / cron-style automations, so it can proactively watch for releases, send summaries, run checks, or remind you about things It's provider-agnostic: OpenRouter, Anthropic, Google, xAI, local models, Nous Portal, and others The big idea: Hermes turns an LLM from “a chat box I visit” into “an agent I can reach from anywhere that knows my workflows and can take real actions and learns over time.” Calvin #4: llm-coding-agent 0.1a0 Simon Willison built a Claude/Codex-style coding agent on top of his llm library, using an alpha of the llm package plus his python-lib-template-repo Built almost entirely via prompted TDD - asked an agent to write a spec.md, then commit + implement with red/green tests, occasionally hitting a real OpenAI key to sanity-check Shipped to PyPI as an alpha: uvx --prerelease=allow --with llm-coding-agent llm code Tool set mirrors familiar coding-agent primitives: read_file, edit_file (exact string replace + diff), write_file, list_files, search_files, execute_command Also exposes a Python API - CodingAgent(model="gpt-5.5", root=..., approve=True).run(...) - which Simon didn't ask for but got anyway Demo: llm code --yolo told GPT-5.5 to build a SwiftUI CLI clock; model correctly noted SwiftUI isn't really CLI-friendly and still produced an ASCII-art time display Extras Calvin: Slides, but for developers https://sli.dev/ Wanna reduce your token usage…. only issue is that its lossy https://github.com/teamchong/pxpipe PEP 772 - Python Packaging Council inaugural election dates set, nominations open July 28, voting September 1-15 Michael: What the pls? revisited! Joke: Min requirements for Linux

A bi-weekly news show informing you on the latest in Bitcoin, privacy and open source tech hosted by Ungovernables, Max and Q. AOB• Holiday season is over• UK no longer melting• Samourai updatesNEWS• GitHub permanently bans Rust Lightning (LDK); Corallo moves Bitcoin dev infra to self-hosted Forgejo - Bitcoin Magazine: Corallo urges Bitcoin projects to exit GitHub after Rust Lightning ban• Sparrow Wallet Apple developer-account scare resolved - Bitcoin Magazine / Craig Raw / Sparrow Wallet• FISA Section 702 lapses for the first time since 2008 - EFF: Victory, 702 Has Expired• Canada's surveillance-and-speech week: Lawful Access bill (C-22) rammed to a June 19 deadline, "Combatting Hate" Act (C-9) gets royal assent June 18 - EFF: Canada Is Forging Ahead with Its Dangerous Surveillance Bill / Canada.ca: stronger hate crime protections become law• US CBDC ban through 2030 heads to the President's desk - House Financial Services Committee• Developer-protection carve-out (BRCA) being sanded down as CLARITY Act stalls; passage odds cut to 50-50 - Bitcoin Magazine: Galaxy Research cuts CLARITY Act passage odds• Bull Bitcoin secures MiCA license in France while keeping self-custody/privacy model - Bitcoin Magazine / Bull Bitcoin• ESMA tells unlicensed crypto providers to wind down as MiCA deadline arrives - ESMA public statement PDF• LND zero-timestamp DoS vulnerability publicly disclosed - Bitcoin Optech #411RELEASESWallets• Envoy v2.3.0-beta - 2026-06-22Redesigned Send flow with inter-account transfers, message signing, Address Explorer, sub-sat fee rates, and custom block-explorer support, plus Passport Prime pairing/Bluetooth reliability fixes. Disclose it is ours.• Zeus v13.1.0 - 2026-06-17Feature release: Cashu multi-mint sends, queue-less Nostr Wallet Connect payments on iOS, CLINK noffer support, and Cashu-token detection in URLs. Strong ecash plus Nostr-native payments stack for a self-custodial Lightning wallet.• Zeus v13.1.1 - 2026-06-26Patch: fixes TLS cert verification for LND/CLN REST over Tor and a currency-converter input bug.• Phoenix 2.8.1 - 2026-06-18Adds an iOS debug screen for signing swap-in transactions and fixes an Android amount-display bug, on updated lightning-kmp.• Blockstream Green iOS 5.5.0 - 2026-06-15Adds support for paying LNURL, BOLT12, and BIP-353 payment instructions, improves Lightning invoice handling, and shows funding fees in the receive flow.• Blockstream Green Desktop 3.4.1 - 2026-06-17Adds BOLT12 offer descriptions and updates GDK to 0.77.6. Secondary to the iOS release, but it reinforces the same BOLT12/BIP-353 direction.• Blink Mobile 3.0.1 - 2026-06-26Pre-release build that continues Blink's self-custodial wallet implementation, including wallet creation, seed backup/recovery, Blink Lightning address, LNURL pay, and Stable Balance with BTC-USD conversion. Mention only as a prerelease / watch item.Lightning / node ops• Core Lightning 26.06.2 - 2026-06-29Point release recommended for minimal OS setups and Docker images lacking root TLS certificates. Late-breaking / record-day item if recording after June 29; not a lead, but useful for node operators.Self-hosting / payments infra• BTCPay Server v2.4.0 - 2026-06-25Major release: multisig wallet setup, loginless passkey auth, and granular per-wallet permissions. Breaking: removes the LNBank and Lightning Charge backends.Bitcoin / wallet infrastructure• Liquid GDK 0.77.6 - 2026-06-16Adds Python 3.14 wheels and fixes singlesig GDK use over Tor that broke after a ureq dependency update. Developer/infrastructure note rather than listener-facing wallet news.Hardware / multisig / inheritance• Nunchuk 2.6.0 - 2026-06-17 (Blog Post: https://nunchuk.io/blog/phased-rollout )Phased rollout of the off-chain inheritance protocol, plus fixes and performance work. Self-custodied estate planning for multisig users.P2P / no-KYC trading• Mostro v0.17.5 - 2026-06-16Anti-abuse bonds harden the Nostr-based P2P marketplace while staying non-custodial. Adds multi-source price aggregation and maker-timeout penalties.• BULL Wallet v6.11.1 - 2026-06-22CSV export, payment notes, auto swap-claim retries, better Electrum reliability, experimental Linux desktop support. • Peach Bitcoin 0.69.0 - 2026-06-25Faster funding-flow sync, but ships a new EU-compliance sign-up step. Worth naming the privacy/compliance tradeoff for a no-KYC-leaning audience.On-chain privacy / coinjoin• Ashigaru Desktop 1.0 - 2026-06-24 Ashigaru Desktop 1.0.0 (June 19, 2026) is the inaugural stable release of the Whirlpool coinjoin desktop wallet, shipping Tx0/zeroleak mixing with Premix/Postmix/Badbank account management, built-in Tor, Mix To for routing postmix funds offline, a receive-only attack-surface reduction model, BIP-329 label import/export, and an offline BIP47 message verifier. It also adds a polished dark-theme UI with live coinjoin progress tracking, full cross-platform packaging (Windows/macOS/Linux plus headless server builds), reproducible builds, and BIP47-signed three-step release verification.• JoinMarket NG 0.33.0 - 2026-06-24Correction/update from earlier 0.32.0 note. 0.33.0 adds forced-address-reuse defences, a config center, TUI send validation, wallet history API work, and fidelity-bond / tumbler fixes.• Wasabi Wallet 2.8.0 - 2026-06-28This release adds P2P sync for compact filters, pay-in-coinjoin, sub-1 sat/vByte fees, payment batching, a Scheme scripting language, Signet support, and Tor forward compatibility. It also broadens platform reach with arm64 Linux, Tails, and Whonix support.• Payjoin Dev Kit payjoin-mailroom 0.1.2 - 2026-06-26Hardens the combined Payjoin Directory and OHTTP Relay with bounded file-descriptor usage, recovery from transient accept errors, database/per-request metrics, and unified mailbox TTL.General wallet / spend• Stack Wallet 2.6.0 - 2026-06-27Adds CakePay gift-card support. EDUCATION• The Fed Is Working on a CBDCThe Rage reports that despite public denials, the Fed is internally researching CBDC design. A concrete surveillance-money piece that pairs directly with the 702 lapse for a “financial panopticon” segment. Also pair with the new ROAD to Housing Act CBDC-ban item: the ban runs only through 2030, which is the punchline.• BIP 110 Fork Simulator / explainerInteractive explainer of the BIP 110 “Reduced Data Temporary Softfork”: activation mechanics, what gets restricted, and how the data-filtering debate could split consensus.• How-To Guide: Running an Ecash MintHands-on Cashu / LNbits + Nutshell mint walkthrough. Ecash is the privacy tech of the moment; a good “run your own mint” counterweight to “just use a wallet.”• Bitcoin Privacy in 2026: A Practical GuideDated 2026-06-04, outside even the grace cutoff, so use as evergreen rather than news. Good “where do listeners actually start” resource.• Bitcoin Optech #411Carries the LND zero-timestamp DoS disclosure plus the usual protocol-discussion roundup. Patch reminder for node runners.• Bitcoin Optech #410Summarises an active dev debate to remove opt-in RBF signaling because it now mainly fingerprints the wallet that created the transaction, plus Sparrow Silent Payments, JoinMarket, and Ark items.KEEP AN EYE ON• EU “Chat Control” final trilogue - Patrick Breyer / fightchatcontrol.euThe fourth and likely final trilogue on the permanent CSAM-scanning regulation is set for Monday 2026-06-29. Member states have reportedly dropped the forced encrypted-message-scanning mandate, but the Council text would still codify “voluntary” scanning and extend the interim derogation, with formal adoption expected in July. Outcome not yet known as of record date.• MiCA enforcement after July 1 - ESMA / Bull BitcoinBull Bitcoin is the self-custody-friendly example to watch, while ESMA's wind-down warning is the enforcement backdrop. After July 1, check which EU-accessible services remain available, which providers stop onboarding, and whether “compliant but non-custodial” survives contact with implementation.TO DONATE TO ROMAN'S DEFENSE FUND: https://freeromanstorm.com/donateHELP GET SAMOURAI A PARDONSIGN THE PETITION ----> https://www.change.org/p/stand-up-for-freedom-pardon-the-innocent-coders-jailed-for-building-privacy-tools DONATE TO THE FAMILIES ----> https://www.givesendgo.com/billandkeonneSUPPORT ON SOCIAL MEDIA ---> https://billandkeonne.org/VALUE FOR VALUEThanks for listening you…

Karl Worner was brilliant in another Docker demolition of the Suns, he chatted with Hayley Miller and the 6PR call team after another dominant display. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jetzt habt ihr euer NAS, um eure Dateien lokal zu speichern statt bei Google Drive, OneDrive oder Dropbox. Aber wie denn nun konkret? Bindet man den Netzwerkspeicher einfach als SMB-Share ein? Installiere ich umständlich eine Nextcloud? Bringt das NAS vielleicht was mit, beispielsweise Qsync von Qnap? Und was können diese Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen wie Syncthing, Resilio und Seafile? Oder machen Localsend und KDE Connect den ganzen Kram nicht viel einfacher? Im Podcast gehen die c't-Redakteure Niklas Dierking, Stefan Porteck und Jörg Wirtgen diese Fragen durch. Zuerst die einfachste Lösung, ein Netzwerk-Share. Wir diskutieren die Vor- und Nachteile der gängigsten Protokolle SMB, NFS, Webdav und AFP und gehen dann auf die strukturellen Eigenschaften ein: Die Dateien liegen dann nicht lokal vor, sondern man benötigt ständig eine Netzwerkverbindung, und um von außerhalb des eigenen LANs zuzugreifen, muss beispielsweise der Router ein VPN- oder Wireguard-Netz aufspannen und man muss das irgendwie per DynDNS finden. Auch wie gut das auf dem Smartphone geht, erwähnen wir. Eine Alternative wäre, Nextcloud auf dem NAS zu installieren: Die Daten liegen dann lokal vor, allerdings benötigt man DynDNS und VPN weiterhin. Wir sind einerseits zufrieden damit, auch weil die meisten Nextcloud-Clients ganz gut mit virtuellen Dateien umgehen können (die nur auf Wunsch lokal gepuffert vorliegen). Andererseits haben wir alle drei Zuverlässigkeits- und Geschwindigkeitsprobleme mit Nextcloud festgestellt, vielleicht aber auch aufgrund zu schwachbrüstiger NAS-Geräte. Gerade wenn man einen Reverse Proxy benötigt, der den DynDNS-Namen innerhalb des LANs auf eine lokale IP umbiegt, damit Transfers nicht auf die Geschwindigkeit der Internet-Anbindung beschränkt sind, und wenn man das beispielsweise mit einem PiHole im Docker auf dem NAS löst, könnten einige NAS überfordert sein. Einen interessanten Tipp brachte Niklas: OpenCloud ist ein abgespeckter Fork von Nextcloud, der vielleicht performanter läuft. Was auch einen Blick wert ist: Die Software, die das NAS mitbringt. Qnap beispielsweise kommt mit Qsync, was ein ähnlicher Dienst ist: Clients für Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, iOS; die Clients verbinden sich im LAN automatisch direkt per IP; DynDNS über Qnap-Dienste eingebaut; virtuelle Dateien funktionieren einigermaßen. Weitere Alternativen sind Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen. Eigentlich synchronisieren sie Verzeichnisse zwischen zwei Geräten, die dazu eingeschaltet sein müssen. Auf den ersten Blick klingt es unpraktisch, extra seinen PC einschalten zu müssen, damit das Handy auf aktuellen Stand kommt. Aber der Trick beim NAS ist natürlich, dort einen Client permanent laufen zu lassen. Vorteil der Systeme: Sie fummeln sich von selbst durch die Firewall, sodass man keinen DynDNS benötigt, und der lokale Zugriff erfolgt automatisch schnell. Syncthing machte sich als solches Peer-2-Peer-System bei allen drei gut, auch weil es das für einige NAS als native Anwendung gibt. Allerdings fehlen virtuelle Dateien. Zur Sprache kommen auch die Alternativen Resilio Sync und Seafile. Schließlich sprachen wir über ganz andere Lösungen, um explizit nur einzelne Dateien auszutauschen, aber auch beispielsweise Zwischenablagen, und das ganze auch ohne Usernamen und Passwörter einfach mit Leuten im gleichen Raum – so etwas wie Apple AirDrop oder Google Quick Share, nur systemübergreifend. Gute Erfahrungen gabs mit Localsend und mit KDE Connect – das anders als der Name vermuten lässt, auch Clients für Windows, macOS, Android und iOS bereit hält.

Jetzt habt ihr euer NAS, um eure Dateien lokal zu speichern statt bei Google Drive, OneDrive oder Dropbox. Aber wie denn nun konkret? Bindet man den Netzwerkspeicher einfach als SMB-Share ein? Installiere ich umständlich eine Nextcloud? Bringt das NAS vielleicht was mit, beispielsweise Qsync von Qnap? Und was können diese Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen wie Syncthing, Resilio und Seafile? Oder machen Localsend und KDE Connect den ganzen Kram nicht viel einfacher? Im Podcast gehen die c't-Redakteure Niklas Dierking, Stefan Porteck und Jörg Wirtgen diese Fragen durch. Zuerst die einfachste Lösung, ein Netzwerk-Share. Wir diskutieren die Vor- und Nachteile der gängigsten Protokolle SMB, NFS, Webdav und AFP und gehen dann auf die strukturellen Eigenschaften ein: Die Dateien liegen dann nicht lokal vor, sondern man benötigt ständig eine Netzwerkverbindung, und um von außerhalb des eigenen LANs zuzugreifen, muss beispielsweise der Router ein VPN- oder Wireguard-Netz aufspannen und man muss das irgendwie per DynDNS finden. Auch wie gut das auf dem Smartphone geht, erwähnen wir. Eine Alternative wäre, Nextcloud auf dem NAS zu installieren: Die Daten liegen dann lokal vor, allerdings benötigt man DynDNS und VPN weiterhin. Wir sind einerseits zufrieden damit, auch weil die meisten Nextcloud-Clients ganz gut mit virtuellen Dateien umgehen können (die nur auf Wunsch lokal gepuffert vorliegen). Andererseits haben wir alle drei Zuverlässigkeits- und Geschwindigkeitsprobleme mit Nextcloud festgestellt, vielleicht aber auch aufgrund zu schwachbrüstiger NAS-Geräte. Gerade wenn man einen Reverse Proxy benötigt, der den DynDNS-Namen innerhalb des LANs auf eine lokale IP umbiegt, damit Transfers nicht auf die Geschwindigkeit der Internet-Anbindung beschränkt sind, und wenn man das beispielsweise mit einem PiHole im Docker auf dem NAS löst, könnten einige NAS überfordert sein. Einen interessanten Tipp brachte Niklas: OpenCloud ist ein abgespeckter Fork von Nextcloud, der vielleicht performanter läuft. Was auch einen Blick wert ist: Die Software, die das NAS mitbringt. Qnap beispielsweise kommt mit Qsync, was ein ähnlicher Dienst ist: Clients für Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, iOS; die Clients verbinden sich im LAN automatisch direkt per IP; DynDNS über Qnap-Dienste eingebaut; virtuelle Dateien funktionieren einigermaßen. Weitere Alternativen sind Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen. Eigentlich synchronisieren sie Verzeichnisse zwischen zwei Geräten, die dazu eingeschaltet sein müssen. Auf den ersten Blick klingt es unpraktisch, extra seinen PC einschalten zu müssen, damit das Handy auf aktuellen Stand kommt. Aber der Trick beim NAS ist natürlich, dort einen Client permanent laufen zu lassen. Vorteil der Systeme: Sie fummeln sich von selbst durch die Firewall, sodass man keinen DynDNS benötigt, und der lokale Zugriff erfolgt automatisch schnell. Syncthing machte sich als solches Peer-2-Peer-System bei allen drei gut, auch weil es das für einige NAS als native Anwendung gibt. Allerdings fehlen virtuelle Dateien. Zur Sprache kommen auch die Alternativen Resilio Sync und Seafile. Schließlich sprachen wir über ganz andere Lösungen, um explizit nur einzelne Dateien auszutauschen, aber auch beispielsweise Zwischenablagen, und das ganze auch ohne Usernamen und Passwörter einfach mit Leuten im gleichen Raum – so etwas wie Apple AirDrop oder Google Quick Share, nur systemübergreifend. Gute Erfahrungen gabs mit Localsend und mit KDE Connect – das anders als der Name vermuten lässt, auch Clients für Windows, macOS, Android und iOS bereit hält. Mit dabei: Niklas Dierking, Stefan Porteck Moderation: Jörg Wirtgen Produktion: Tobias Reimer ► Der von Niklas erwähnte Newsletter c't Open Source Spotlight: https://www.heise.de/newsletter/anmeldung.html?id=ct-opensource

Jetzt habt ihr euer NAS, um eure Dateien lokal zu speichern statt bei Google Drive, OneDrive oder Dropbox. Aber wie denn nun konkret? Bindet man den Netzwerkspeicher einfach als SMB-Share ein? Installiere ich umständlich eine Nextcloud? Bringt das NAS vielleicht was mit, beispielsweise Qsync von Qnap? Und was können diese Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen wie Syncthing, Resilio und Seafile? Oder machen Localsend und KDE Connect den ganzen Kram nicht viel einfacher? Im Podcast gehen die c't-Redakteure Niklas Dierking, Stefan Porteck und Jörg Wirtgen diese Fragen durch. Zuerst die einfachste Lösung, ein Netzwerk-Share. Wir diskutieren die Vor- und Nachteile der gängigsten Protokolle SMB, NFS, Webdav und AFP und gehen dann auf die strukturellen Eigenschaften ein: Die Dateien liegen dann nicht lokal vor, sondern man benötigt ständig eine Netzwerkverbindung, und um von außerhalb des eigenen LANs zuzugreifen, muss beispielsweise der Router ein VPN- oder Wireguard-Netz aufspannen und man muss das irgendwie per DynDNS finden. Auch wie gut das auf dem Smartphone geht, erwähnen wir. Eine Alternative wäre, Nextcloud auf dem NAS zu installieren: Die Daten liegen dann lokal vor, allerdings benötigt man DynDNS und VPN weiterhin. Wir sind einerseits zufrieden damit, auch weil die meisten Nextcloud-Clients ganz gut mit virtuellen Dateien umgehen können (die nur auf Wunsch lokal gepuffert vorliegen). Andererseits haben wir alle drei Zuverlässigkeits- und Geschwindigkeitsprobleme mit Nextcloud festgestellt, vielleicht aber auch aufgrund zu schwachbrüstiger NAS-Geräte. Gerade wenn man einen Reverse Proxy benötigt, der den DynDNS-Namen innerhalb des LANs auf eine lokale IP umbiegt, damit Transfers nicht auf die Geschwindigkeit der Internet-Anbindung beschränkt sind, und wenn man das beispielsweise mit einem PiHole im Docker auf dem NAS löst, könnten einige NAS überfordert sein. Einen interessanten Tipp brachte Niklas: OpenCloud ist ein abgespeckter Fork von Nextcloud, der vielleicht performanter läuft. Was auch einen Blick wert ist: Die Software, die das NAS mitbringt. Qnap beispielsweise kommt mit Qsync, was ein ähnlicher Dienst ist: Clients für Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, iOS; die Clients verbinden sich im LAN automatisch direkt per IP; DynDNS über Qnap-Dienste eingebaut; virtuelle Dateien funktionieren einigermaßen. Weitere Alternativen sind Peer-2-Peer-Lösungen. Eigentlich synchronisieren sie Verzeichnisse zwischen zwei Geräten, die dazu eingeschaltet sein müssen. Auf den ersten Blick klingt es unpraktisch, extra seinen PC einschalten zu müssen, damit das Handy auf aktuellen Stand kommt. Aber der Trick beim NAS ist natürlich, dort einen Client permanent laufen zu lassen. Vorteil der Systeme: Sie fummeln sich von selbst durch die Firewall, sodass man keinen DynDNS benötigt, und der lokale Zugriff erfolgt automatisch schnell. Syncthing machte sich als solches Peer-2-Peer-System bei allen drei gut, auch weil es das für einige NAS als native Anwendung gibt. Allerdings fehlen virtuelle Dateien. Zur Sprache kommen auch die Alternativen Resilio Sync und Seafile. Schließlich sprachen wir über ganz andere Lösungen, um explizit nur einzelne Dateien auszutauschen, aber auch beispielsweise Zwischenablagen, und das ganze auch ohne Usernamen und Passwörter einfach mit Leuten im gleichen Raum – so etwas wie Apple AirDrop oder Google Quick Share, nur systemübergreifend. Gute Erfahrungen gabs mit Localsend und mit KDE Connect – das anders als der Name vermuten lässt, auch Clients für Windows, macOS, Android und iOS bereit hält. Mit dabei: Niklas Dierking, Stefan Porteck Moderation: Jörg Wirtgen Produktion: Tobias Reimer ► Der von Niklas erwähnte Newsletter c't Open Source Spotlight: https://www.heise.de/newsletter/anmeldung.html?id=ct-opensource

Si has estado atento a los últimos episodios del podcast, ya te habrás dado cuenta de que estoy completamente enfocado en exprimir la inteligencia artificial local y el software libre. En concreto, hay dos herramientas que se han convertido en mis compañeras inseparables de fatigas en el día a día: OpenCode, que me ayuda a programar de una forma increíble, y Hermes Agent, un asistente digital del que hoy te lo quiero contar absolutamente todo.El dilema de la instalación: ¿Docker o en tu propia máquina?Como ya me conoces, sabes bien lo mucho que me gusta a mí levantar "al rico contenedor" y solucionar cualquier despliegue con Docker. Sin embargo, en mis pruebas con Hermes Agent he preferido dar un paso atrás y realizar una instalación directa sobre el sistema operativo, utilizando un entorno virtual de Python. El peligro de la ventana de contexto y la sangría de tokensAquí está uno de los grandes secretos que casi nadie te explica al principio. Cuando ejecutas el asistente de configuración inicial de Hermes Agent, te entran ganas de activar absolutamente todas las características que te ofrece: herramientas de visión, utilidades del sistema, navegación web, traducción... ¡todo suena fantástico! Pero hay una trampa invisible en la que es muy fácil caer. El superpoder de los perfiles aislados (Profiles)La solución definitiva a este problema de consumo y rendimiento tiene un nombre: perfiles. Hermes Agent te permite crear tantos perfiles aislados como consideres oportuno. Modelando el Alma y la Memoria de tu AgenteEn el podcast te detallo cómo dar personalidad a tu agente a través del archivo de alma. A mi asistente personal, que he bautizado como Chloe, le he configurado un tono sarcástico, irónico y burlón. Me encanta interactuar con ella de esta manera porque rompe completamente con la clásica respuesta robótica y aburrida de otras inteligencias artificiales comerciales; se siente como hablar con un colega de verdad. Eso sí, te doy pautas para redactar este archivo con cuidado, ya que un "alma" demasiado extensa también te comerá espacio de contexto útil de forma innecesaria.Ampliando fronteras: MCP, Telegram y automatizaciones automáticasPor último, abordamos el fantástico protocolo MCP (Model Context Protocol), que nos permite dotar de "manos y ojos" a nuestro agente. Y para rematar la jugada, la integración con Telegram y Matrix. Es una auténtica delicia poder ir caminando, mandarle un audio desde el móvil a mi bot de Telegram, que este use Whisper en local para transcribir mi voz, procese lo que le pido y me conteste con otro audio sintetizado a la velocidad que yo le he configurado de antemano. Todo ello combinado con tareas programadas (Cron) y un tablero de Kanban interno con el que el propio agente se organiza y ejecuta flujos de trabajo de forma completamente autónoma.Te invito a que te prepares un buen café, te pongas los auriculares y disfrutes de este viaje de configuración avanzada de 0 a 100.CAPÍTULOS DEL AUDIO:00:00:00 Introducción: Mi día a día con OpenCode y Hermes Agent00:01:26 El problema de los tutoriales básicos e instalación00:03:00 Configuración inicial y la sangría de tokens00:04:47 Archivos clave y estructura interna de Hermes00:05:56 Creando "Skills" personalizadas y configurando API Keys00:08:15 Perfiles aislados (Profiles): Qué son y por qué los necesitas00:11:00 Cómo clonar y gestionar tus perfiles sin romper nada00:13:35 soul.md: Diseñando el "Alma" y el tono de tu asistente00:15:28 memory.md: El gran desafío de la memoria y el RAG en Rust00:17:38 Expandiendo capacidades con MCP y conversión de voz00:20:47 Llevando tu agente a Telegram con Cron y Kanban integrado00:27:18 Reglas de oro para optimizar tu contexto y despedida

JDK 26 optimise la JVM dans ses moindres recoins, le SDK Java d'Agent2Agent passe en 1.0, Micronaut 5 est là. Côté terrain, un retour d'expérience après 40 jours à coder avec 100 % d'IA : génie ou junior, Alzheimer numérique et dette technique invisible. Pendant ce temps, GitLab restructure, Microsoft suspend ses licences Claude Code, et un développeur injecte un prompt destructeur dans sa lib JUnit. La révolution IA a un coût et les boites commencent à s'en rendre compte. Enregistré le 12 juin 2026 Téléchargement de l'épisode LesCastCodeurs-Episode-341.mp3 ou en vidéo sur YouTube. News Langages Les améliorations de performance dans le JDK 26 https://inside.java/2026/06/09/jdk-26-performance-improvements/ Côté bibliothèques, l'API LazyConstant (anciennement StableValue) fait son entrée en prévisualisation pour permettre une initialisation paresseuse, sécurisée pour les threads et optimisée par le mécanisme de constant-folding de la JVM. L'extraction de chaînes de caractères via MemorySegment::getString a été revue pour réduire considérablement les allocations intermédiaires et les copies en mémoire off-heap, accélérant fortement les traitements sur les chemins critiques (hot paths). La méthode générée automatiquement hashCode() pour les classes de type record a été optimisée par la JVM pour atteindre un niveau de performance équivalent à une implémentation écrite manuellement. Le ramasse-miettes G1 bénéficie du JEP 522 qui redessine sa table de cartes (card-table) afin de réduire les coûts de synchronisation des barrières d'écriture, offrant un gain de débit de 5 % à 15 % sur les applications manipulant énormément de références d'objets. Grâce au JEP 516 (Project Leyden), le cache d'objets Ahead-of-Time (AOT) adopte un format de flux agnostique, ce qui lui permet d'être compatible avec n'importe quel Garbage Collector, y compris le ramasse-miettes à très faible latence ZGC. Le démarrage de la JVM s'accélère par défaut lorsqu'aucune taille de tas n'est configurée, car HotSpot n'applique plus de pourcentage initial (InitialRAMPercentage) mais démarre directement avec la taille minimale (MinHeapSize) pour éviter d'allouer des métadonnées inutiles. Les threads virtuels gagnent en robustesse en étant désormais capables de céder la main (yield) pendant les phases d'initialisation des classes, éliminant ainsi le risque de famine des threads porteurs (carrier threads). Le compilateur C2 JIT améliore son modèle de coût pour la vectorisation des boucles (SIMD) et se montre maintenant capable de compiler et d'optimiser des méthodes dotées de listes de paramètres extrêmement longues. Librairies Release candidate du A2A Java SDK supportant versions 0.3 et 1.0 en même temps https://medium.com/google-cloud/a2a-java-sdk-1-0-0-cr1-released-f0c651ec9139 Dernière étape avant la GA : Toutes les fonctionnalités prévues pour la version 1.0 sont finalisées. Migration simplifiée depuis la Beta1. Compatibilité v0.3 : Ajout d'une couche de compatibilité permettant aux agents v1.0 de communiquer avec les systèmes v0.3 (via JSON-RPC, gRPC ou REST). Support natif pour Android (nouvel AndroidHttpClient). Uniformisation des clients HTTP pour garantir une cohérence entre les versions. Nouveau parseur SSE (Server-Sent Events) conforme aux spécifications. Ça y est, le SDK Java de l'Agent 2 Agent Protocol est sorti en version 1.0 finale ! (avec compatibilité v0.3 et v1.0) https://medium.com/google-cloud/a2a-java-sdk-1-0-0-final-released-10c05b6aee34 Lancement officiel : Sortie de A2A Java SDK 1.0.0.Final, la première version stable (GA) du protocole Agent2Agent. Objectif du protocole : Standard ouvert (Linux Foundation) permettant aux agents IA de communiquer, déléguer des tâches et collaborer, indépendamment du langage ou du framework. Interopérabilité : Introduction de l'Integration Test Kit (ITK) pour valider la compatibilité entre les SDK (Java, Python, TypeScript, etc.). Transports supportés : Support complet et équivalent pour JSON-RPC, gRPC et HTTP+JSON/REST. Alignement total avec la spécification A2A 1.0.0. Passage aux Java records pour l'immutabilité et moins de code répétitif. Architecture interne basée sur un MainEventBus pour garantir la persistance et éviter les conditions de concurrence. Intégration d'OpenTelemetry pour le suivi et la surveillance. Support d'Android et compatibilité descendante avec la version 0.3. Installation : Gestion des dépendances via Maven BOM (org.a2aproject.sdk). Sortie de Micronaut 5.0 https://micronaut.io/2026/05/20/micronaut-framework-5-0-0-released/ Lancement majeur : Disponibilité générale de Micronaut 5, incluant une refonte de plus de 70 modules et la plateforme BOM. Baselines techniques : Support de Java 25, Groovy 5, Kotlin 2.3 et GraalVM 25.0.3. Optimisations internes : Amélioration significative des performances au démarrage et réduction de la surcharge à l'exécution via une refonte du conteneur IoC et du traitement à la compilation. Architecture HTTP : Support stable de HTTP/3, nouvelle API de formulaires (multipart) et annotations de nullabilité (JSpecify) pour une meilleure interopérabilité Kotlin/IDE. Configuration : Nouveau système d'importation de configuration (remplaçant le Bootstrap Configuration) et validateur de schéma JSON intégré. Fiabilité : Nouvelles API programmatiques pour les politiques de retry et circuit breaker. Sécurité & Outils : Mise à jour majeure des dépendances (Jackson 3, Ktor 3), rafraîchissement du Panneau de contrôle et diagnostics AOT améliorés. Écosystème : Mises à jour complètes pour les bases de données (Data, SQL, R2DBC, MongoDB, Redis), le cloud (AWS, Azure, GCP, OCI) et les tests (JUnit 6, Testcontainers 2.0). Évolutions notables : Intégration HTMX dans Micronaut Views, retrait du support RxJava 2 et migration de divers processeurs d'annotations vers des modules dédiés. Comment rajouter un agent IA dans une app Android, avec le tout nouveau framework ADK pour Kotlin https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/05/21/wiring-adk-kotlin-agents-in-an-android-application/ Guillaume a participé au développement et au lancement du nouveau runtime ADK pour Kotlin et Android https://developers.googleblog.com/adk-kotlin-android-building-ai-agents/ Tutoriel sur comment intégrer un agent ADK dans une app Dépendances : Ajout du noyau ADK (google-adk-kotlin-core) et du processeur KSP dans build.gradle.kts. Sécurité API : Utilisation de local.properties pour stocker la clé API Gemini et l'exposer via BuildConfig afin d'éviter le hardcoding. Définition de l'agent : Création d'un objet LlmAgent configuré avec le modèle Gemini, des instructions spécifiques et des outils (ex: GoogleSearchTool). Utilisation de InMemoryRunner pour gérer automatiquement le contexte et l'historique de la session. Implémentation de runAsync avec StreamingMode.SSE pour un retour en temps réel dans l'interface. Threading : Exécution des requêtes réseau sur Dispatchers.IO et mise à jour de l'état de l'interface utilisateur sur Dispatchers.Main. Comment développer et hoster des agents IA sur la plateforme d'agents managés de DeepMind https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/05/21/managed-agents-with-the-gemini-interactions-java-sdk/ L'équipe DeepMind de Google a lancé une plateforme d'agents managés sur son API Gemini Interactions https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/developers-tools/managed-agents-gemini-api/ Guillaume a implémenté un SDK Java pour utiliser cette API Gemini Interactions, qui donne entre autre accès à tous les modèles mais aussi à cette plateforme managée d'agents IA Agents managés : Permet d'exécuter des agents autonomes qui raisonnent, planifient et exécutent du code dans des environnements isolés (sandboxes), sans gestion d'infrastructure par le développeur. Environnement distant : Utilise des espaces de travail Linux éphémères dans le cloud via le paramètre remote, permettant l'accès réseau et la persistance des fichiers sur plusieurs appels. Agents prédéfinis : Accès immédiat à des agents spécialisés comme deep-research-pro (recherche multi-étapes) ou antigravity (tâches de codage généralistes). Agents personnalisés : Possibilité de configurer ses propres agents avec des instructions système dédiées, des outils spécifiques (exécution de code, recherche Google) et des règles réseau (egress) personnalisées. Architecture basée sur les étapes (Steps) : Utilise une structure de données typée (Step, Content) pour suivre le raisonnement de l'agent, ses appels de fonctions et ses résultats en temps réel. Outils et Schémas : Inclut des utilitaires pour générer des schémas JSON complexes via une interface fluide (DSL), par réflexion Java ou par parsing JSON. Streaming réactif : Support natif des événements en temps réel (SSE) pour suivre la progression de l'agent et recevoir les deltas de contenu au fur et à mesure de la génération. Flexibilité : Fournit un gestionnaire de routage (InteractionsHandler) pour créer facilement des serveurs proxy ou des backends intermédiaires traitant les interactions Gemini. Spring Boot 4.1 https://github.com/spring-projects/spring-boot/wiki/Spring-Boot-4.1-Release-Notes Support natif pour Spring gRPC permettant de créer et tester facilement des applications clientes et serveurs basées sur Netty ou des Servlets via HTTP/2 Introduction du lazy fetching pour les connexions JDBC via la propriété spring.datasource.connection-fetch=lazy afin de ne prendre une connexion du pool que lorsqu'un Statement est réellement exécuté Amélioration de l'auto-configuration de Jackson permettant de définir globalement les contraintes de lecture/écriture pour les formats JSON, XML et CBOR via des propriétés de configuration Sécurisation des clients HTTP bloquants et réactifs face aux attaques SSRF grâce à l'introduction d'un InetAddressFilter bloquant les requêtes sortantes vers des adresses spécifiques Améliorations majeures autour d'OpenTelemetry avec le support complet des variables d'environnement OTel, la possibilité de désactiver le SDK via une propriété globale et l'ajout du support SSL sur les exporters OTLP Ajout de l'auto-configuration pour l'utilisation de Spring Batch avec MongoDB incluant un nouveau starter dédié spring-boot-batch-data-mongo Auto-configuration des endpoints @RedisListener sans nécessiter la déclaration manuelle d'un RedisMessageListenerContainer Dépréciation du support de Apache Derby (projet arrêté), suppression définitive du mode layertools du JAR et réintroduction du support de Spock 2.4 (avec Groovy 5) Upgrade des dépendances majeures de l'écosystème avec notamment Spring Framework 7.0.8, Spring Security 7.1.0 et Micrometer 1.17.0 Outillage Vous êtes plutôt endive ou chicorée ? La librairie Chicory qui permet d'exécuter du code WASM à partir de son application Java est forkée et rejointe la Bytecode Alliance pour continuer son développement https://bytecodealliance.org/articles/endive-and-the-next-chapter-of-webassembly-on-the-jvm Annonce d'Endive : Nouveau projet hébergé par la Bytecode Alliance ; fork de Chicory (moteur WebAssembly pur Java, sans dépendance native). ​Objectif principal : Permettre aux développeurs Java d'intégrer, charger et déployer des modules Wasm nativement via les workflows Java habituels. ​Compilateur "Redline" : Intégration à venir de Redline (basé sur Cranelift) pour compiler le Wasm en code machine natif ; performances comparables à Rust/Wasmtime. ​Zéro dépendance (Java 25+) : Grâce à l'API standard Foreign Function & Memory (Project Panama), l'exécution à vitesse native se fait sans composants externes. ​Modèle de Composants (Component Model) : Support futur prévu pour consommer des composants (Rust, Go, JS, etc.) via des interfaces typées et sécurisées directement dans la JVM. ​Prochaines étapes : Fusion de Redline, conformité stricte aux specs Wasm (dont WasmGC) et amélioration du support WASI. Un visualisateur de sessions de travail avec Antigravity https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/06/11/antigravity-brain-visualizer/ Un projet open source construit avec Micronaut, LangChain4j et GraalVM pour analyser les sessions de travail avec l'outil de développement agentique Antigravity (de Google) Analyse toutes les étapes, les requêtes utilisateur, les outils utilisés, les erreurs rencontrées, les réponses du modèle Gemini fait une analyse pour comprendre les moments clés de cette session de travail Outil buildé avec l'aide d'Antigravity lui-même SBX-Kits : des environnements de développement simplifiés pour les débutants (et les autres) https://k33g.org/20260501-sbx-kits.html Philippe Charrière (:whale: ) présente SBX-Kits (Sandbox Kits), une initiative personnelle visant à simplifier radicalement la mise en place d'environnements de développement pour les débutants, en éliminant la complexité d'installation des outils traditionnels. Chaque "kit" est une archive prête à l'emploi contenant un outil de développement spécifique (comme un langage, un framework ou une base de données) configuré pour s'exécuter de manière isolée et portable. La philosophie du projet repose sur le principe de "zéro configuration" et "zéro dépendance globale", permettant de tester une technologie ou de commencer à coder immédiatement sans polluer son système d'exploitation. L'approche technique s'appuie sur des scripts légers et des binaires portables pré-packagés, offrant une alternative plus simple et moins gourmande en ressources que les conteneurs Docker ou les configurations d'IDE complexes pour l'apprentissage. L'objectif à terme est de proposer un catalogue de kits couvrant les technologies courantes (JavaScript, Python, petites bases de données) pour faciliter les ateliers de programmation et le prototypage rapide. De nombreux kits sont disponibles sur https://github.com/docker/sbx-kits-contrib ghui: une interface utilisateur en ligne de commande (TUI) interactive pour GitHub https://github.com/kitlangton/ghui ghui est un outil en ligne de commande (TUI) écrit en Rust qui fournit une interface visuelle, interactive et rapide directement dans le terminal pour interagir avec GitHub. Il permet de gérer ses pull requests, ses issues et ses notifications sans avoir à ouvrir son navigateur web ou à taper de longues commandes avec la CLI officielle de GitHub. L'outil propose une navigation fluide au clavier, des raccourcis efficaces, et permet de réaliser des actions courantes comme valider une PR, ajouter des commentaires, attribuer des reviewers ou inspecter les logs des GitHub Actions. Conçu pour être extrêmement réactif, ghui s'intègre naturellement dans le flux de travail des développeurs adeptes du terminal et du mode "sans souris". Sortie de Homebrew 6.0.0 https://brew.sh/2026/06/11/homebrew-6.0.0/ Introduction du mécanisme de sécurité Tap Trust : comme les dépôts tiers (taps) peuvent exécuter du code Ruby arbitraire non sandboxé sur la machine, Homebrew demande désormais une confiance explicite de l'utilisateur avant d'évaluer ou d'exécuter leur code. L'API JSON interne devient le choix par défaut, offrant un système plus léger et beaucoup plus rapide pour les développeurs. Sécurisation renforcée de l'environnement avec l'implémentation du sandboxing sur Linux. Évolution des comportements par défaut basés sur un sondage utilisateur : le mode "ask" est activé par défaut pour les développeurs, affichant un résumé des dépendances et une demande de confirmation avant toute action de brew install ou brew upgrade. Améliorations notables des performances globales, notamment un boost de ~30 % sur la vitesse de la commande brew leaves et la parallélisation de la récupération des bottles (binaires) lors des mises à jour. Ajout du support initial pour la prochaine version d'Apple, macOS 27 (Golden Gate). Multiples optimisations pour brew bundle, incluant une gestion plus sécurisée des installations de paquets npm. Méthodologies Retour d'expérience très détaillé et 100% humain sur 40 jours avec une équipe 100% AI hormis le superviseur https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/jai-vir%C3%A9-mon-%C3%A9quipe-de-dev-pour-une-100-ia-pendant-40-luc-bonnin-jlgjf/ Voici le résumé en bullet points : Expérimentation de 40 jours : remplacer une équipe de dev par 100% IA agentique (Cursor) sur un vrai projet en production (playthatsheet.com, 200k lignes de code legacy) Chiffres bruts : 2,3 milliards de tokens consommés, 1 477 prompts, 260 564 lignes ajoutées (+145%), 59% du code final produit par l'IA ROI vertigineux à court terme : 9 mois de travail humain livrés en 40 jours, coût total 260$ d'abonnement + 15 jours de supervision, ROI x18 Profil psy de l'IA : Alzheimer (oublis de contexte), schizophrène (change de méthodo), ado de 12 ans (refait les mêmes erreurs), oscille entre génie et junior sans prévenir Effet iceberg : la dette technique ne disparaît pas, elle se camoufle et s'accélère ; hallucinations = bombes à retardement détectables uniquement par relecture humaine ligne par ligne Paradoxe du bateau de Thésée : perte de paternité et de maîtrise fine du code, baisse de l'autonomie du dev humain qui valide sans avoir construit Arnaque du "monkey money" : consommation de tokens opaque, non corrélée à la complexité (écart de 350% sur des prompts identiques), facturation imprévisible donc impossible à budgéter Syndrome du bazooka : les devs utilisent l'IA même pour changer une couleur CSS, atrophie progressive des compétences et coût écologique délirant Risque stratégique : dépendance irréversible aux vendeurs de tokens (Nvidia, Anthropic, OpenAI), business non rentable qui devra augmenter ses prix Conseil final : approche Pareto, garder 20% du temps en code "fait main", nommer un responsable stratégie IA, l'humain senior reste irremplaçable pour superviser Une libraries de test JUnit cache un prompt qui demande aux coding agents d'effacer les tests https://arstechnica.com/security/2026/05/fed-up-with-vibe-coders-dev-sneaks-data-nuking-prompt-injection-into-their-code/ Agacé par les « vibe coders », un développeur introduit une injection de prompt destructrice dans son code Le développeur de jqwik (un moteur de tests pour JUnit 5) a volontairement inséré une injection de prompt dans la version 1.10.0 de sa bibliothèque Java pour saboter le travail des agents d'IA. L'instruction injectée via la sortie standard (stdout) ordonne textuellement aux LLM d'ignorer les consignes précédentes et de supprimer l'intégralité du code et des tests jqwik du projet. Pour dissimuler cette action aux yeux des développeurs humains, le mainteneur a utilisé des séquences d'échappement ANSI qui effacent la ligne d'injection dans les émulateurs de terminaux interactifs. La modification a été découverte par un utilisateur qui a pointé du doigt les risques majeurs et disproportionnés pour les machines des utilisateurs, bien que certains outils comme Claude d'Anthropic aient détecté et bloqué la consigne malveillante. Face aux critiques de la communauté et aux accusations de comportement infantile ou potentiellement illégal, le développeur a mis à jour ses notes de version pour documenter explicitement son opposition à l'usage de son outil par des IA, avant de refuser tout commentaire supplémentaire sur conseil de son avocat. La réalité du rôle de Principal Engineer https://leaddev.com/career-development/reality-being-principal-engineer Le passage au rôle de Principal Engineer marque une transition majeure où les compétences techniques ne suffisent plus, l'impact se mesurant désormais à travers l'influence, la stratégie et la capacité à aligner la technique avec les objectifs business. Contrairement aux attentes, le quotidien est souvent marqué par une forme d'isolement, car le poste se situe à l'intersection de la direction (qui attend des solutions) et des équipes techniques (qui attendent des directives), sans appartenance directe à un groupe précis. Le rôle exige d'accepter une grande part d'ambiguïté et l'absence de retours immédiats, les projets et les décisions stratégiques mettant parfois des mois ou des années à porter leurs fruits. La gestion du temps devient un défi critique, nécessitant de savoir naviguer entre les sollicitations constantes, la présence en réunion et le besoin de préserver des moments de réflexion approfondie pour concevoir des visions à long terme. La réussite à ce niveau repose sur le développement de compétences humaines pointues (soft skills), notamment la négociation, la communication vulgarisée auprès des profils non techniques, et la capacité à faire grandir les autres ingénieurs par le mentorat. Sécurité Une attaque de la chaîne d'approvisionnement npm utilise binding.gyp pour compromettre des dizaines de paquets https://cybersecuritynews.com/binding-gyp-supply-chain-attack-compromises-dozens-of-npm-packages/ Une nouvelle variante du ver auto-propageable "Shai-Hulud", baptisée "Miasma", cible l'écosystème npm (et PyPI sous le nom de "Hades") en dissimulant son exécution dans le fichier binding.gyp au lieu des scripts classiques preinstall ou postinstall. La technique, surnommée "Phantom Gyp", exploite le fait que npm lance automatiquement node-gyp rebuild dès qu'un fichier binding.gyp est présent à la racine d'un paquet pour compiler des modules natifs C/C++, exécutant ainsi le code malveillant dès la commande npm install. L'attaque contourne la plupart des outils de sécurité traditionnels car l'injection s'appuie sur l'évaluation récursive de commandes (via la syntaxe ) ou directement sur la fonction eval() de Python sous-jacente à GYP, cachée sous n'importe quelle clé du fichier. Le script malveillant télécharge un runtime alternatif (Bun) pour échapper aux détections comportementales de Node.js, puis moissonne les identifiants et secrets des développeurs et des environnements CI/CD (npm, GitHub, AWS, GCP, Azure, Kubernetes, HashiCorp Vault). Plus de 57 paquets npm (dont le SDK serveur de Vapi ou des outils liés à l'IA) et des dizaines de paquets PyPI ont été infectés via des comptes de mainteneurs compromis, le ver republiant automatiquement de nouvelles versions vérolées en utilisant les jetons volés. Loi, société et organisation Restructuration chez Gitlab https://about.gitlab.com/blog/gitlab-act-2/ GitLab entame une restructuration majeure pour s'adapter à l'ère de l'intelligence artificielle agentique, incluant une réduction d'effectifs planifiée de manière transparente et ouverte. L'entreprise prévoit de réduire de 30 % le nombre de pays où elle maintient de petites équipes, d'aplatir sa hiérarchie en supprimant jusqu'à trois niveaux de gestion, et de réorganiser la R&D en une soixantaine d'équipes plus petites et autonomes. Les processus internes vont être revus en intégrant des agents d'IA pour automatiser les revues, les approbations et les passages de relais afin d'accélérer le rythme de travail. La stratégie repose sur la conviction que le logiciel sera bientôt écrit par des machines et dirigé par des humains, ce qui va multiplier la demande de logiciels et transformer le rôle des ingénieurs vers la résolution de problèmes complexes. Sur le plan technique, GitLab reconstruit son infrastructure sous-jacente (notamment Git) pour supporter la charge massive générée par les agents d'IA, tout en misant sur l'orchestration du cycle de vie, la centralisation du contexte des données et une gouvernance intégrée. Le modèle économique évolue vers un système hybride combinant les abonnements classiques et une tarification à la consommation pour le travail effectué par les agents d'IA. Un LLM local sur un mac pourrait coûter plus cher en électricité qu'un modèle hébergé sur OpenRouter dans le cloud https://www.williamangel.net/blog/2026/05/17/offline-llm-energy-use.html Conclusion : L'inférence locale sur Mac M5 Max est 3x plus chère et 2x plus lente que le cloud (OpenRouter). Électricité : Négligeable (~0,02 $/heure pour 50-100W). Matériel (Le vrai coût) : Achat du Mac à 4 299 $; l'amortissement sur 3 à 5 ans plombe la rentabilité horaire. Coût au million de tokens (Gemma 4 31b) : Mac M5 Max : 0,40 à4, 79 (pour 10-40 tokens/s). OpenRouter : 0,38 à0, 50 (pour 60-70 tokens/s). Verdict pro : Le temps humain perdu à cause de la lenteur locale coûte infiniment plus cher que les tokens cloud. Privilégier les API (Anthropic, OpenRouter). Ai didn't kill your junior pipeline https://andrewmurphy.io/blog/ai-didnt-kill-your-junior-pipeline-you-did L'IA n'a pas tué le recrutement des juniors, les entreprises l'ont fait elles-mêmes, par effet de mode. Sans juniors, pas de futurs seniors : on retire l'échelle qui nous a tous fait monter. Tout le monde pêche dans le même bassin de seniors sans le réapprovisionner, pénurie garantie dans 3-5 ans. Une équipe 100% senior + IA est fragile : un départ et tout le savoir tacite s'évapore. Les juniors posent les "pourquoi ?" qui révèlent les bugs et processus absurdes ; l'IA, elle, exécute sans questionner. Les seniors s'atrophient aussi en déléguant leur réflexion à l'IA, pince à double effet sur les compétences. Dépendre des outils IA, c'est sous-traiter sa stratégie talents à des fournisseurs dont les prix vont tripler. Solution : redéfinir le rôle junior (revue de code IA + mentorat), pas le supprimer. Les rapports internes de Microsoft révèlent la crise des coûts de l'IA : les agents coûtent plus cher que les employés humains https://fortune.com/2026/05/22/microsoft-ai-cost-problem-tokens-agents/ Des données et rapports internes chez Microsoft et d'autres géants de la tech ébranlent la promesse de rentabilité de l'IA, révélant que le déploiement d'agents autonomes à l'échelle de l'entreprise revient souvent plus cher que de payer des humains pour le même travail. Le modèle de tarification à l'usage (basé sur les tokens) se heurte à la nature même des architectures agentiques : contrairement à un simple chatbot, un agent boucle, enchaîne les appels d'outils, crée des sous-agents et auto-évalue son code, ce qui multiplie la consommation de tokens par un facteur de 5 à 30, voire jusqu'à 1 000 fois pour des tâches de programmation complexes. L'impact financier sur les budgets de calcul cloud est immédiat ; par exemple, Uber a entièrement épuisé l'intégralité de son budget annuel 2026 dédié au codage par IA en l'espace de seulement quatre mois. Face à cette explosion des coûts, des retours en arrière drastiques sont observés : Microsoft a ainsi commencé à suspendre une grande partie de ses licences internes Claude Code pour rediriger d'urgence ses milliers de développeurs vers sa propre solution moins onéreuse, GitHub Copilot CLI. Les directeurs techniques (CTO) et acheteurs de solutions logicielles qui ont signé des contrats pluriannuels basés sur des projections de réduction de masse salariale se retrouvent pris au piège, les gains réels de productivité ne parvenant pas à compenser les factures d'infrastructure exorbitantes. Conférences La liste des conférences provenant de Developers Conferences Agenda/List par Aurélie Vache et contributeurs : 11-12 juin 2026 : DevQuest Niort - Niort (France) 11-12 juin 2026 : DevLille 2026 - Lille (France) 12 juin 2026 : Tech F'Est 2026 - Nancy (France) 15 juin 2026 : Jupyter Workshops: Demystifying MyST Markdown in Education - Orsay (France) 16 juin 2026 : Mobilis In Mobile 2026 - Nantes (France) 17-19 juin 2026 : Devoxx Poland - Krakow (Poland) 17-20 juin 2026 : VivaTech - Paris (France) 18 juin 2026 : Tech'Work - Lyon (France) 22-26 juin 2026 : Galaxy Community Conference - Clermont-Ferrand (France) 23-24 juin 2026 : MWCP 2026 - Paris (France) 24-25 juin 2026 : Agi'Lille 2026 - Lille (France) 24-26 juin 2026 : BreizhCamp 2026 - Rennes (France) 26-27 juin 2026 : LeHACK - Paris (France) 27 juin 2026 : Asynconf - Paris (France) 2 juillet 2026 : Azur Tech Summer 2026 - Valbonne (France) 2 juillet 2026 : MCP Connect Travel Edition - Paris (France) 2-3 juillet 2026 : Sunny Tech - Montpellier (France) 3 juillet 2026 : Agile Lyon 2026 - Lyon (France) 6-8 juillet 2026 : Riviera Dev - Sophia Antipolis (France) 28-30 août 2026 : State of the Map - Champs-sur-Marne (France) 4 septembre 2026 : JUG Summer Camp 2026 - La Rochelle (France) 10-11 septembre 2026 : Nantes Craft - Nantes (France) 17 septembre 2026 : dotAI - Paris (France) 17-18 septembre 2026 : API Platform Conference 2026 - Lille (France) 18 septembre 2026 : WordCamp Bretagne - Rennes (France) 18 septembre 2026 : dotJS - Paris (France) 18 septembre 2026 : WordCamp Bretagne - Rennes (France) 22 septembre 2026 : Salon Data 2026 - Nantes (France) 22-23 septembre 2026 : Agile en Seine & IA 2026 - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : OWASP AppSec Days France 2026 - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : PlatformCon Paris - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : React Native Connection 2026 - Paris (France) 24-26 septembre 2026 : Paris Web 2026 - Paris (France) 25 septembre 2026 : SAP Inside Track Paris 2026 - Paris (France) 28-29 septembre 2026 : 4th Tech Summit on AI & Robotics - Paris (France) & Online 1 octobre 2026 : WAX 2026 - Marseille (France) 1-2 octobre 2026 : Volcamp - Clermont-Ferrand (France) 2 octobre 2026 : DevFest Perros-Guirec 2026 - Perros-Guirec (France) 5-9 octobre 2026 : Devoxx Belgium - Antwerp (Belgium) 8-9 octobre 2026 : Forum PHP 2026 - Marne-la-Vallée (France) 12 octobre 2026 : Dev With AI - Paris (France) 22-23 octobre 2026 : Agile Tour Bordeaux 2026 - Bordeaux (France) 26 octobre 2026 : Agile Tour Montpellier - Montpellier (France) 27-29 octobre 2026 : Directions EMEA 2026 - Paris (France) 29-30 octobre 2026 : BDX I/O 2026 - Bordeaux (France) 29-30 octobre 2026 : Agile Tour Nantais 2026 - Nantes (France) 29 octobre 2026-1 novembre 2026 : Pycon FR - Biarritz (France) 30 octobre 2026 : Cloud Nord 2026 - Lille (France) 4-5 novembre 2026 : Devoxx Morocco - Casablanca (Morocco) 14-15 novembre 2026 : Capitole du Libre - Toulouse (France) 19 novembre 2026 : DevFest Toulouse 2026 - Toulouse (France) 19 novembre 2026 : Agile Laval 2026 - Laval (France) 19 novembre 2026 : OVHcloud Summit - Paris (France) 19 novembre 2026 : Codeurs en Seine - Rouen (France) 27 novembre 2026 : DevFest Paris 2026 - Paris (France) 1-3 décembre 2026 : Apidays Paris - Paris (France) 2-3 décembre 2026 : Cloud Native AI Summit Europe - Paris (France) 4 décembre 2026 : DevFest Lyon 2026 - Lyon (France) 4 décembre 2026 : DevFest Dijon 2026 - Dijon (France) 9-10 décembre 2026 : OpenSource Expérience - Paris (France) 9-10 décembre 2026 : DevOps REX - Paris (France) 10 décembre 2026 : KCD Provence - Aix-en-Provence (France) 7-9 avril 2027 : Devoxx France 2027 - Paris (France) 3 juin 2027 : Cloud Native Days France 2027 - Paris (France) Nous contacter Pour réagir à cet épisode, venez discuter sur le groupe Google https://groups.google.com/group/lescastcodeurs Contactez-nous via X/twitter https://twitter.com/lescastcodeurs ou Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/lescastcodeurs.com Faire un crowdcast ou une crowdquestion Soutenez Les Cast Codeurs sur Patreon https://www.patreon.com/LesCastCodeurs Tous les épisodes et toutes les infos sur https://lescastcodeurs.com/

Seguro que si eres de los míos, de los que disfrutan pasando el rato en la terminal o montando servicios en casa, te habrás dado cuenta de que acabamos haciendo tareas repetitivas casi sin querer. Para poner fin a este caos cotidiano te traigo una herramienta espectacular que se llama Just. Pero la verdadera razón por la que he querido dedicarle este pódcast a Just de nuevo es por una experiencia divertidísima que he tenido estos últimos días con mi asistente de inteligencia artificial local, al que cariñosamente llamo Hermes. Yo soy una persona bastante perezosa para ciertas tareas repetitivas y me gusta poner a trabajar a las máquinas por mí. Normalmente, al acabar mis entrenamientos de carrera, le dicto un audio a Hermes detallando la distancia, las pulsaciones y el ritmo para que él los registre. Pero el otro día, llevado por la vaguería máxima, decidí simplemente hacer una captura de pantalla de la aplicación del móvil y enviársela por Telegram.Hermes, que es una maravilla de asistente, aplicó un sistema de lectura de imágenes (OCR) llamado Tesseract, extrajo todos los datos de mi carrera y los guardó en un periquete. Yo me quedé encantado y pensé que la vida ya estaba resuelta. Sin embargo, al día siguiente repetí el proceso y... ¡sorpresa! Hermes se había olvidado por completo de cómo lo había hecho. Me preguntó qué quería que hiciese con la imagen y, cuando le recordé lo del día anterior, me soltó que no tenía la herramienta de lectura instalada en su entorno de trabajo. Tuve que guiarle de nuevo de la mano paso a paso.Ahí fue donde se me encendió la bombilla. Las inteligencias artificiales a veces se despistan y tienen una memoria muy volátil para los flujos de trabajo técnicos. La mejor forma de darles estabilidad es crearles un recetario claro, un archivo "justfile" donde tengan todas sus habilidades documentadas y listas para ejecutar con un simple comando. Así, Hermes nunca más olvidará cómo procesar una imagen o cómo gestionar un contenedor, porque solo tiene que invocar la receta correspondiente.En este episodio quiero animarte a que pruebes Just en tu propio día a día, uses o no inteligencia artificial. Capítulos del episodio:00:00:00 Introducción: Olvídate de repetir comandos00:01:33 El problema con Hermes: Por qué las IA también se despistan00:03:04 ¿Qué es Just y cómo funciona?00:04:59 Cómo instalar Just en Linux00:05:31 Comparativa: Just contra Make y Task00:06:42 Gestión de variables, argumentos y funciones00:08:49 Atributos de receta para afinar su comportamiento00:10:00 El comportamiento de las líneas y el poder del Shebang00:11:00 Funciones integradas y ajustes globales00:12:00 Operadores, expresiones y dependencias complejas00:13:00 Usando intérpretes alternativos (Bash, Python, Node) en Just00:14:18 Recetas normales frente a recetas Shebang y scripts00:15:33 Módulos e importación de recetas externas00:16:38 El selector interactivo con búsqueda difusa (just choose)00:17:37 Alias, grupos y autocompletado en tu shell00:18:09 Casos prácticos de uso real (Sysadmin, Docker, Backups)00:19:18 Documentación viva y ejecutable para todo el mundo00:20:17 Control de versiones con Git y límites de Just00:21:10 Una historia de pereza, Hermes, deporte y OCR que se olvida00:22:59 Conclusiones: Simplifica tu vida con este ejecutor de comandos00:24:58 Cierre del episodio y despedidaMás información y enlaces en las notas del episodio

Conventional wisdom says the hardest part of building a startup is building the product. Shanea Leven says the harder challenge is figuring out what customers will actually pay for. Before co-founding Empromptu.ai, Shanea spent more than 15 years building products at companies including Google, eBay, Docker, and Cloudflare. In this conversation, she explains why sales is every bit as complex as engineering, why customer interviews aren't enough to validate an idea, and why early-stage founders need to spend more time testing demand than perfecting roadmaps. We discuss the case-study approach she uses to find customers, the controversial belief that the only real product validation is money, and what happened when a LinkedIn post generated a 1,000-person waitlist almost overnight.  Shanea also shares how she used more than 100 customer calls to shape Empromptu's direction, why she stopped fundraising when the company took  off, and the go-to-market challenges that still keep her up at night. If you're a technical founder trying to figure out whether you're building something people truly want, this episode offers a practical framework for separating genuine demand from wishful thinking. Listen to this episode if you're trying to figure out: why sales validation should happen before you commit to a roadmap how to find your first customers using the case study method what a viral waitlist can teach you about product-market fit how to distinguish customer feedback from customer demand why technical founders need to learn sales earlier than they think which early traction signals are worth trusting — and which aren't how to validate an idea before spending months building it RUNTIME 49:06   EPISODE BREAKDOWN (3:16) What Is Empromptu.ai, and Who Is it For? (6:25) Sales Is Just as Complicated as Engineering (8:14) The Case Study Method for Finding Early Customers (11:56) Why Al Is Rewriting the Product Playbook (13:37)   The Only Real Product Validation Is Money  (17:10) The S***ty Purple Website That Predicted Impromptu's Viral Launch (21:38) What 100 Waitlist Calls Taught Shanea About Customer Demand (26:28) "We evolved the platform." (34:57) "Ninety-nine percent of VCs are great at one thing." (36:20) The GTM Problem That Still Keeps Shanea Up at Night  (39:02) A Process for Selecting Your First Sales/Marketing Hires (40:59) Why She'd Hire a "Scrappy" Marketer Over a Former Meta Employee "Every Time" (44:05) The Early Traction Signal She No Longer Trusts (45:28) A 30-day Experiment Founders Can Run To Validate Their Idea LINKS Shanea Leven Empromptu.ai Empromptu raises $2M pre-seed to help enterprises build AI apps, 12/9/2025, TechCrunch SUBSCRIBE

OpenChoreo is an opinionated, “batteries included”, AI-native Kubernetes platform stack for Platform Engineers that combines GitOps, Observability, AI Agents, and Workflows into a custom K8s distribution “super pack” that is managed via Backstage, CLI, API, or MCP. Now a CNCF project.Check out the video podcast version here: 

An airhacks.fm conversation with Alvaro Hernandez (@ahachete) about: discussion about the quarkus Insights episode "#337 The Database Cloud" stackgres live demo, StackGres as a Quarkus and GraalVM native kubernetes operator for running Postgres, comparing CloudNativePG (CNPG) by EnterpriseDB to StackGres, Patroni for Postgres high availability, the split-brain risk of relying on Kubernetes and etcd alone, distributed consensus and leader lock election via etcd, why distributed systems and cryptography should not be self-implemented, async, synchronous and quorum (semi-synchronous) Postgres replication trade-offs, cascading and cross-region replication topologies, the false-positive problem and heuristic exceptions in two-phase commit, the ondb ("own your database") project for self-hosted Postgres, losing control with managed cloud services and untestable backups, vanilla unmodified Postgres on StackGres, the "Kubernetes without Kubernetes" (Kubeless) pattern, talking directly to ContainerD through the CRI API, runc and the Docker to ContainerD chain, a self-contained native binary that embeds ContainerD over Unix domain sockets, the slony node-local component named after the Postgres slonik elephant mascot, the Matriarch orchestrator component, reverse gRPC tunnels with Slonies phoning home across NAT and firewalls, a multi-tenant cloud control plane provided as a service, curl-pipe-shell node installation with a token, end-to-end encrypted Postgres protocol tunneling for JDBC from anywhere, psql compiled to wasm in the web console, Tailscale-inspired user experience, unifying nodes, Kubernetes clusters and cloud pools as resources, Slony Kubernetes controller, Java 25 source-mode scripting without dependencies, implementing your own MCP server for Postgres JDBC metadata, the Goose agentic UI donated by Block to the Linux Foundation, AI Rails BCE, Java, Web Components skills Alvaro Hernandez on twitter: @ahachete

In this episode of the Ardan Labs Podcast, Ale Kennedy talks with François Bitouzet, Managing Director of Viva Technology, about the forces shaping the future of technology and innovation. François shares his journey from studying in France to leading one of the world's largest technology and startup events, connecting entrepreneurs, investors, and industry leaders from around the globe.00:00 Introduction02:58 Education and Early Influences08:53 Early Career and Communication17:47 Communication in a Changing World32:25 Innovation and Technology42:40 Creativity and Marketing49:38 Leadership and Career Growth54:54 Adapting to Technological Change59:42 The Future of Events01:06:54 AI and Society01:11:20 Startups and Innovation01:15:35 Deep Tech and the FutureConnect with François: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fran%C3%A7ois-bitouzet-180a89/Mentioned in this Episode:Viva Technology: https://vivatechnology.comWant more from Ardan Labs? You can learn Go, Kubernetes, Docker & more through our video training, live events, or through our blog!Online Courses : https://ardanlabs.com/education/ Live Events : https://www.ardanlabs.com/live-training-events/ Blog : https://www.ardanlabs.com/blog Github : https://github.com/ardanlabs

Joe Beda and Craig McLuckie co-created Kubernetes, the infrastructure standard that became the default for cloud native computing. Now running Stacklok, they're watching enterprises hit the same identity, permissions, and security problems with AI agents that took the container ecosystem years to resolve, and they're building tools to compress that timeline. In this episode of Founded & Funded, Madrona's Tim Porter sits down with Joe and Craig to talk through what AI adoption actually requires: why MCP is the Docker moment for AI-native applications, how the LLM gateway is becoming a strategic chokepoint for cost, safety, and model flexibility, and why enterprises that don't get the architecture right early will face a familiar trap: vertical integration that looks like productivity and acts like lock-in. They cover: Why the developer workflow is the template for knowledge worker AI adoption, and where the analogy breaks down The mainframe vs. open platform question that will define the AI infrastructure era Why the knowledge worker transition is harder than it looks — and what has to be built differently before developer-grade AI tooling can scale to the rest of your organization The governance gap between human accountability and AI behavior, and what enterprises actually need to build to close it Where to start: MCP controls first, LLM gateway second, and why deploying a platform without staying to close the loop consistently fails Transcript: https://www.madrona.com/the-best-infrastructure-moment-since-cloud Chapters: (0:00) – Introduction (1:04) – Why the Kubernetes Creators Are the Right People to Read This AI Moment (2:18) – Joe's Lesson from Cloud Native: Ignore Conventional Wisdom, Except When You Shouldn't (4:16) – Craig on Enterprises and the Chaos of a New Infrastructure Era (5:32) – Why Joe Rejoined Craig at Stacklok: The Engineer's Case for Getting Your Hands Dirty (7:05) – Developers as Agent Orchestrators: How the Knowledge Worker Transition Will Follow (10:10) – MCP Explained: Craig Sees Docker in 2013 When He Looks at the MCP Spec 1 (7:53) – The Mainframe vs. Open Platform Question That Will Define the AI Era (20:24) – LLM Lock-In Is the Wrong Worry: The Real Risk Is Left of the Model (25:19) – Where Enterprises Actually Start: Developer Posture First, Knowledge Workers Second (29:10) – MCP First, LLM Gateway Second: The Concrete Technical Starting Point (31:19) – How Stacklok Builds Software Now: Agents, Smaller Teams, the Unrecognizable Developer Profile (38:07) – The Recruiter Who Started Building Agents: What AI Tools Do to Role Boundaries

"C'est important que je comprenne le code qui a été généré." Le D.E.V. de la semaine est Guillaume Lours, Software Engineer chez Docker. Avec lui, on plonge dans les coulisses de Docker Sandbox, cette solution pensée pour sécuriser l'automatisation et l'exécution de code par IA. Guillaume nous explique comment limiter les risques sans sacrifier l'efficacité, et détaille l'architecture technique : micro VM légère, man-in-the-middle pour la gestion des credentials, profils de sécurité personnalisables, le tout pour une expérience fluide. Il partage aussi des astuces d'usage au quotidien pour tester, reviewer ou itérer plus sereinement. Un éclairage concret sur le futur du développement outillé par l'IA.Chapitrages00:00:53 : Docker et Magie Noire00:01:32 : Présentation de Guillaume00:03:15 : Docker et les Générations00:04:50 : Résumé de Docker00:07:12 : Utilisation de Docker pour Tous00:08:51 : Écosystèmes et Docker00:12:43 : Complexité vs Simplicité00:17:20 : Introduction à Docker Compose00:20:23 : Fonctionnement de Docker Compose00:22:43 : Responsabilités de Compose et Engine00:28:19 : Ordonnancement et Réconciliation00:32:45 : Conteneurisation vs Virtualisation00:37:31 : Introduction à Docker Sandbox00:40:04 : Fonctionnement de Docker Sandbox00:45:58 : Usages de Docker Sandbox00:52:28 : Philosophie de Docker sur le Code00:58:44 : Recommandations et Conclusion Liens évoqués pendant l'émission YT Devoxx France Construire une application indépendante de la tech US en 2025 | Eventuallycoding2025, Europe Vs USA : la tech à l'heure des choix | EventuallycodingLe mythe de la neutralité : quand la tech devient politique

Jim Collison and Gavin Campbell explore AI agents for Home Assistant, comparing OpenClaw and Hermes while covering local vs cloud LLMs, token economics, Mattermost, Docker, Unraid, and home-lab hardware requirements.

PHP Podcast – June 4, 2026 Hosts: Eric Van Johnson & John Congdon Another fun episode of the PHP Podcast! Here’s what we covered: PHP Tek 2027 — New Dates, Bold New Format Mark your calendars: PHP Tek 2027 is happening April 27–29 in Chicago, and Eric and John are shaking things up. Rather than a straight three-day PHP conference, next year gets three tracks — two of which are familiar PHP-focused content, and a third specialty track that rotates each day: one day of JavaScript, one day of DevOps, and one day of Laravel. The Laravel track is specifically focused on how developers actually use the framework day-to-day, not a product pitch. Single-day passes will be available, so if you’re only coming for the DevOps or JS day, you’re covered. One important heads-up: there’s a big convention happening at a venue nearby in Rosemont, so the hotel block could sell out faster than usual. When they open reservations, don’t wait. Holly the Elephant Is Going Fast The PHP Architect conference elephant, named Holly, is now available at store.phparch.com, and demand has been remarkable. Eric woke up one morning to a flood of orders and genuinely couldn’t figure out what happened. The warning from last year applies here: people said they’d grab Tony later, and now Tony is gone forever. Holly ships June 17th for most orders, but if you’ve already ordered, it’s likely on its way. Get yours while you can. PHP Tek TV Is Doing Something Different This Year In past years, conference talk videos would get edited and uploaded weeks (or months) after the event. This year, John is doing things differently: the raw, unedited recordings are going up now, with timestamps in the description so you can jump straight to specific talks — some rooms recorded a seven-hour continuous feed and just left it running. The clean edited versions are still coming (a video editor friend in the UK is on it), but if you want to see a talk right now, the raw version is there. Audio quality varies by room, but it’s watchable. Immich — A Self-Hosted Google Photos That Actually Works John has been running Immich, a self-hosted photo management platform, in a Docker container for about a month and loves it. It does facial recognition, GPS tagging, and auto-uploads from his phone — essentially everything he cares about in Google Photos, without handing his photos to Google or Apple. He’s now planning to use it as the PHP Architect conference photo library, centralizing all the Tech photos in one browsable, shareable place. It’s fully open source, with no licensing cost, and an optional donation tier. If you’re sick of paying ever-increasing storage bills to big tech companies, this is worth a look. Ben Ramsey’s PHP Tek Homecoming Article Is Free to Read The May issue of PHP Architect magazine is now available to digital subscribers, and this month’s free article is Ben Ramsey’s piece on the PHP Tek homecoming experience. Eric reached out to Ben last minute and he delivered. If you’ve never subscribed, this is a low-barrier way to see what the magazine is like. Head to phparch.com, grab the free article, and if you like what you see, subscriptions are not expensive. John Is Resurrecting a Legacy Laravel App — With Claude’s Help John has been grinding away on a Laravel 6 app that was a passion project years ago and has now been revived as an actual client project. Using Claude to methodically baby-step through each version upgrade — starting with writing tests to establish a baseline — he’s worked up through the major Laravel versions. The turning point came when he hit the version where the old event sourcing package (Prooph) was clearly on its way out, and the decision was made to migrate to Verbs, Nuno Maduro’s Laravel-native event sourcing package. John’s now looking forward to it. He’s also accidentally been burning tokens on the company Anthropic account (not his personal account), which Eric caught live on air. They are going to talk about it after the show. Eric’s Mystery Side Project Is Almost Ready — If DNS Would Cooperate Eric teased a new side project last week and intended to reveal it this week, but he’s stuck waiting on DNS propagation. The domain was registered with DigitalOcean DNS already in use by a previous owner, so Eric moved it to Cloudflare — only to discover there may be a conflict because the previous owner was also on Cloudflare. The result: the name servers are stuck on old values. John’s live suggestion was to move it to Route 53, and Eric was immediately sold. The project is almost ready to show the world, DNS gods willing. Meta’s AI Support Bot Got Socially Engineered Eric shared a video demonstrating how someone prompt-injected Meta’s AI customer support bot into sending a verification code to an attacker-controlled email address — and then using that code to add the email to an account, enabling a full password reset and account takeover. The irony: Meta is the company behind Llama and has some of the deepest AI expertise on the planet, and they still shipped a support bot with permissions it shouldn’t have. Eric’s point was pointed: you can fire a human employee who gets social engineered, which creates accountability throughout the team. An AI has no such incentive structure. Crowbarring AI into account-modification workflows without appropriate guardrails is just asking for this. The PHP Foundation Now Publishes Board Meeting Minutes Eric discovered that the PHP Foundation has started publishing their board meeting minutes in a public GitHub repository. Nothing earth-shattering yet, but seeing who attended, what was discussed, and what decisions are being made gives the community a real window into how the foundation operates at scale. It also helps explain something Eric and John have always found interesting: why PHP stalled so hard between versions 5 and 7. There was no foundation, no financial backing, just volunteer hours. Now there’s a paid staff and governance structure — and the minutes show exactly how complex running something at PHP’s scale actually is. The PHP Foundation Has a Dedicated Security Team Now Speaking of the Foundation, it now has a dedicated security team — a sign of how seriously the supply chain attack problem has gotten. AI tools are being deployed by black hat actors to find vulnerabilities in open source projects at a scale that wasn’t possible before. PHP is not just another open source project; it underpins a massive slice of the web, and companies depend on it staying secure. Having a team specifically focused on this is the right call, even if it’s a sobering reminder of where the threat landscape is heading. Moat — Nuno’s GitHub Security Auditing Tool Nuno Maduro (of Laravel fame) quietly shipped a tool called Moat that audits your GitHub presence for security gaps. Install it globally via Brew or Composer, point it at your GitHub org, a specific repo, or even a specific branch, and it gives you a report on where your security posture could be improved. It’s read-only — it won’t change anything — and it’s explicit that it is not a security certification. Eric wants to use it to audit the PHP Architect organization’s repos, many of which haven’t been touched in years. Think of it as a fast, opinionated triage tool, not a replacement for a real security audit. Links from the show: PHP Tek 2027 — Chicago, April 27–29 PHP Architect Store — Holly the Elephant Immich — Self-Hosted Photo Management PHP Architect Magazine Verbs — Laravel Event Sourcing by Thunk Moat — GitHub Security Auditing by Nuno Maduro PHP Foundation on GitHub PHP Architect Discord Host: Eric Van Johnson X: @shocm Mastodon: @eric@phparch.social Bluesky: @ericvanjohnson.bsky.social PHPArch.me: @eric John Congdon X: @johncongdon Mastodon: @john@phparch.social Bluesky: @johncongdon.bsky.social PHPArch.me: @john Streams: Youtube Channel Twitch Connect & Hire PHP Architect Website Twitter/X Mastodon Hire PHP Developers Looking to hire PHP developers? Email support@phparch.com – Joe and the team are available for consulting, infrastructure work, Ansible playbooks, and code review. Partner This podcast is made a little better thanks to our partners Displace Infrastructure Management, Simplified Automate Kubernetes deployments across any cloud provider or bare metal with a single command. Deploy, manage, and scale your infrastructure with ease. https://displace.tech/ PHPScore Put Your Technical Debt on Autopay with PHPScore CodeRabbit Cut code review time & bugs in half instantly with CodeRabbit. Music Provided by Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/ Join Us Live Next Week Youtube Channel Got feedback? Join us on Discord at discord.phparch.com The post The PHP Podcast 2026.06.04 appeared first on PHP Architect.

Jim Collison and Gavin Campbell explore AI agents for Home Assistant, comparing OpenClaw and Hermes while covering local vs cloud LLMs, token economics, Mattermost, Docker, Unraid, and home-lab hardware requirements.

Jim Collison and Gavin Campbell explore AI agents for Home Assistant, comparing OpenClaw and Hermes while covering local vs cloud LLMs, token economics, Mattermost, Docker, Unraid, and home-lab hardware requirements.

Si en el episodio anterior te hice una pequeña introducción de lo que es capaz de hacer este agente, hoy quiero bajar al barro contigo y contarte cómo le he dado ojos a nuestro modelo para que pueda explorar internet, documentarse y encontrar la mejor información de forma completamente soberana, libre de anuncios y con el máximo respeto por nuestra privacidad.En este episodio nos vamos a centrar en dos "conectores" brutales que he integrado en su arsenal: uno para realizar búsquedas en la web general y otro para realizar búsquedas avanzadas en YouTube.SearXNG: Tu propio Google privado y sin publicidadLa primera pieza de este rompecabezas es SearXNG. Es una herramienta maravillosa que actúa como un buscador de buscadores. En lugar de ser un motor de búsqueda que rastrea la web entera por su cuenta, SearXNG lo que hace es consultar de forma simultánea a los grandes del sector: Google, Bing, Brave, DuckDuckGo y los que tú decidas. Recopila las respuestas de todos ellos, limpia los molestos rastreadores que intentan identificarte, elimina los anuncios y te devuelve una lista limpia de resultados.Invidious: Buscando en YouTube con total soberaníaLa segunda herramienta que le he dado a Hermes es Invidious, y tiene un propósito muy claro: facilitarle el acceso a la inmensa base de conocimientos que es YouTube.La magia de los subagentes paralelosLo que me tiene entusiasmado de este sistema es la capacidad de Hermes de combinar ambas herramientas de forma autónoma gracias a los subagentes. Imagina que le pido a Hermes que me recomiende cómo aprender a programar en el lenguaje Rust. En lugar de darme una respuesta estática, Hermes decide de forma inteligente lanzar dos subagentes: uno se va a la web a través de SearXNG a buscar documentación oficial y artículos de referencia, mientras que el otro se va a YouTube a través de Invidious para buscar cursos en vídeo.Ambos asistentes virtuales regresan con sus hallazgos y Hermes hace un cruce de datos espectacular.El poder de los contenedores DockerPara montar todo esto sin complicarme la vida ni ensuciar el sistema operativo de mi equipo principal, he recurrido a mis queridos contenedores Docker. Cada herramienta corre en su propio compartimento aislado. Da igual que SearXNG use unas librerías de Python concretas o que Invidious requiera otras dependencias distintas; al estar encapsulados, nunca entran en conflicto. Si quiero actualizar algo, simplemente descargo la nueva versión del contenedor y listo. En la entrada del blog te dejaré las plantillas de Docker Compose preparadas para que tú también puedas desplegarlas en tu servidor y empezar a cacharrear hoy mismo.CAPÍTULOS DEL EPISODIO:00:00:00 Presentación: El asistente de IA definitivo y la soberanía digital00:01:40 ¿Qué es un MCP (Model Context Protocol)?00:03:26 SearXNG: Tu propio motor de búsqueda privado y sin anuncios00:05:53 Poniendo a prueba las búsquedas web con Hermes00:07:32 Cómo está montada la infraestructura de búsqueda con Docker00:08:48 Automatización real: Creación de documentos con información web00:09:38 Invidious: YouTube sin publicidad y sin rastreo00:11:43 Buscando y analizando vídeos de YouTube con Hermes00:16:20 Superpoderes combinados: Búsqueda web + YouTube00:20:40 Por qué autoalojar todo en contenedores Docker independientes00:22:04 Analizando la recomendación razonada de la IA para aprender Rust00:24:09 Próximo episodio: Planificación de menús y bases de datos vectoriales00:25:09 Taller presencial en Linux Center de Slimbook (¡ven a cacharrear!)00:26:00 Despedida y cierre del episodioMás información y enlaces en las notas del episodio

The new AIEWF website is live! CFPs close in 2 days and we will run our first New Engineer Orientation this weekend, get your tickets booked ASAP as they -will- sell out. Take the AI Engineering Survey and get >$2k in credits and free AIE WF tickets!One of the central tensions in the agents industry is that even while there are major decacorn agent labs like Sierra, Decagon, Notion and Cursor being built up, it is also true that it has never been easier to DIY agents, with a plethora of agent frameworks like LangGraph and Pydantic and Flue, and managed agents from Anthropic and Gemini and Amazon. There has been a wave of companies building their own background agents from Shopify to Stripe to Paradigm to Razorpay, and even Cognition's friends Ramp have built their own coding agent with other friend Modal.You'd think Cognition might feel a bit threatened, but they're not - even after all this, they were way oversubscribed for the $1B Series D they just announced:Walden Yan, coiner of context engineering and Chief Product Officer/Cofounder of Cognition, invited OpenInspect's Cole Murray to talk about why the Devin is in the Details.Full conversation live on the pod today: In retrospect, async agents were the most AGI pilled bet you could make in 2024 - the models weren't good enough yet to vibecode, and people didn't trust AI enough to let it rip, nobody (including early Cognition) was sure about the form factors. Now it is obvious:* The first wave of AI coding tools made the developer faster but remain heavily in the loop. Copilor and Cursor's tab autocomplete are prime examples However, the workflow was still heavily centered around and bottlenecked by the developer's local workflow: a developer in an IDE, watching the model, accepting or rejecting changes, and pushing code one interaction at a time.* The second wave was local agents: Claude Code, Windsurf, Cursor's agents pane: first one and increasingly many terminals all running concurrently.* The current Age of Async Agents points to a different future focused more on agent orchestration which drives end-to-end development.According to previous guest Steve Yegge, there are finer-grained 8 levels to agent adoption, but we have collapsed it into three.As Cursor's Michael Truell put it in The third era of AI software development:Cursor is no longer primarily about writing code. It is about helping developers build the factory that creates their software. This factory is made up of fleets of agents that they interact with as teammates: providing initial direction, equipping them with the tools to work independently, and reviewing their work.The agent should not sit solely inside the developer's flow. It should be setup to work in the background so that you can give it a task, a repo, a machine, a shell, a browser, tests, memory, and review loops to go do the work somewhere else.In less than a year, the sentiment has shifted from avoiding multi-agent systems:to suggesting approaches that actually work:From coining “context engineering” to building the infrastructure behind Devin's 7x PR growth and jump from 16% to 80% of commits across Cognition repos, Walden Yan has had a front-row seat to the background-agent shift. In this episode, Cognition co-founder and CPO Walden Yan joins swyx alongside Cole Murray, creator of OpenInspect, to unpack why everyone is building their own Devin, what changed after the December 2025 model inflection, and why “spec to pull request” is now becoming a real production workflow.We go deep on the architecture of background agents: harness-in-the-box vs out-of-the-box, why Devin separates the “brain” from the machine, why repo setup is still one of the hardest problems, why Docker is not always enough, and how full VMs, snapshots, scoped secrets, GitHub bots, Slack integrations, and video-based testing all fit together. Walden and Cole also dig into memory, MCP limitations, multi-agent orchestration, AI code review, SRE auto-triage, PMs shipping code from Slack, Windsurf 2.0, hybrid frontier/sub-frontier systems, and the real failure mode of uncontrolled vibe coding: your codebase regressing to your worst engineer.And as agents eat software… and software eats the world… you can draw the conclusion on what is next:We discuss:* Why the engineering world is waking up to background agents and cloud agents* The December 2025 model inflection that made spec-to-PR workflows practical* Devin's 7x merged PR growth and rise from 16% to 80% of commits* Why Cole built OpenInspect as an open-source background-agent system* The economics of $20/seat agent products and why monetization is tricky* What Cognition actually sells beyond Devin: infra, onboarding, integrations, and adoption* Harness in the box vs out of the box, and why architecture matters* Why Devin separates the brain from the machine for security and permissions* Repo setup, scoped secrets, Docker Compose, and agent-ready dev environments* Why full VMs matter when agents need to run real applications and test them* Android, macOS, Windows, nested virtualization, and machine-specific agent work* Why testing is much harder than “computer use”* Screenshots, video verification, and the “I know it works” merge moment* GitHub UX, Devin Review, AI reviewers, and agents responding to PR comments* Why MCP alone is not enough for first-class Slack and enterprise integrations* Memory, Knowledge, skills, Claude.md, and why retrieval is still unsolved* Devin's auto-generated memories and the challenge of memory pruning* Always-on agents as permanent PMs for issues, tickets, and product areas* Sub-agents, meta-Devin management, and what multi-agent systems actually add* Why pure auto-merge vibe coding breaks down after about two weeks* AI code smells, lint rules, reward hacking, and Semgrep for agent-written code* GitAI, inline context, and preserving the “why” behind code changes* Local testing, mock servers, older codebases, and preparing companies for agents* Windsurf 2.0 and the handoff between local foreground agents and cloud background agents* SRE auto-triage, support workflows, and agents as first responders* PMs, marketing, and non-engineers creating pull requests from Slack* AI agent budgets, $1k-$5k per engineer spend, and hybrid frontier/sub-frontier systems* The rise of autonomous coding factories and who Cognition is hiringWalden Yan* X: https://x.com/walden_yan* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldenyan/Cole Murray* X: https://x.com/_colemurray* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colemurray/* OpenInspect / Background Agents: https://github.com/ColeMurray/background-agentsTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:00:43 Why Everyone Is Building Their Own Devin00:01:57 Devin's 2025 Ramp: 7x PR Growth and 80% of Commits00:03:49 OpenInspect and the Rise of Open-Source Background Agents00:07:59 What Cognition Actually Sells Beyond Devin00:09:56 Background Agent Architecture: Harness In vs Out of the Box00:12:08 Separating the Brain from the Machine00:14:07 Repo Setup, Secrets, Docker, and Full VMs00:19:13 Why Testing Is Harder Than Computer Use00:22:40 Video Verification and the “I Know It Works” Merge Moment00:23:19 GitHub UX, Devin Review, and AI Code Review00:25:42 MCP, Slack, and Enterprise Agent Integrations00:28:59 Memory, Knowledge, and Always-On Agents00:36:16 Sub-Agents, Multi-Agent Orchestration, and Meta-Devin00:43:55 Vibe Coding, Auto-Merge, and Codebase Decay00:48:38 Agent Infra, VPCs, Cloud Providers, and Fast VM Restore00:52:25 AI Code Smells, Reward Hacking, and Code Review Systems00:56:10 Making Codebases Agent-Ready00:58:30 Windsurf 2.0 and the Local-to-Cloud Agent Handoff01:01:15 SRE Auto-Triage, PMs Shipping Code, and Agent Use Cases01:04:32 Agent Budgets, Hybrid Models, and Autonomous Coding Factories01:06:51 Hiring at Cognition and OpenInspect Consulting01:07:45 OutroTranscriptIntroduction: Walden Yan, Cole Murray, and Context EngineeringSwyx [00:00:00]: All right, we're in the studio with Walden Yan, co-founder of Cognition, CPO.Walden [00:00:08]: Happy to be here.Swyx [00:00:09]: Which is a cool title. And coiner of context engineering.Walden [00:00:15]: Although I think there are many people who'd used the terms in various ways beforehand, but I did find that people, both internally and externally, enjoyed the upgrade from prompt engineering or model wrapping into maybe a more thoughtful way to build agents.Swyx [00:00:33]: For those who haven't caught up on that, I have on screen the Don't Build Multi-Agents post, which you should go read on and we might refer to, and Cole Murray, who created OpenInspect.Cole [00:00:43]: Great to be here.Swyx [00:00:43]: So let's talk about it. Everyone is building their own Devins. What's going on?The December Shift: From Handholding Models to Autonomous PRsCole [00:00:51]: So I think the engineering world is waking up to this idea of background agents, cloud agents, whatever you'd like to call it. And I think we saw a shift around the December timeframe of 2025, where the models Opus 4.5 and GPT 5.2, they reached a capability where we moved away from handholding the model and being able to actually more or less autonomously drive the model. And what I mean by that is that we could pretty much go from a specification to a completed pull request, assuming the spec was good enough, with very little friction. And that paradigm alone, I think, changed a lot of how we interact with agents, and opened this world where background agents became more practical.Swyx [00:01:41]: I think for Cole, everyone experienced this in December, but I feel like there was just this increasing ramp, right? There was this moment which was, I think, Sonnet 3.7, where, You guys rewrote Devin in one night or something. So describe 2025 or how it felt from your side.Walden [00:02:01]: In retrospect, we always thought it was ramping up, but then even now, over the last three, four months from today, it's been ramping up even faster. So it's almost funny to be talking about how, big of a leap Sonnet 3.7 was, and honestly, a lot of it was stripping out parts of Devin that were no longer needed with that jump in of intelligence. But I also just think that a lot of the recent leaps, especially, you look at, models like Opus and the latest GPT models, they are reaching levels of autonomy where people are actually finding that they actually can just be hands-off. And people who were once debating, “Oh, do I need to be in the weeds with my model in the IDE? Can I just completely move it off into the cloud?” That's a more serious conversation, and we've seen that in all of our growth charts. Internally there's this funny graph where our usage has, of PRs, our merged PRs, has grown 7X since I forget what it was called.Swyx [00:02:57]: I think Dev, maybe tweeted that. Yes.Walden [00:03:01]: it grew like 7X over, the last, I think it was, two months, three months, something like that. And then you see our engineering headcount growth. It's, gone up by, 10% or something.Swyx [00:03:11]: We were, we were afraid To release this. So this is Devin commit percentages on all Devin repos, was 16% in January and now 80% in March.Walden [00:03:25]: It's a big shift right now. And so it makes sense that a lot of people are now thinking about, buying Devin, but also maybe, trying to build their own and there's Lots of I have a lot of fun building Devin, so I can see why other people would want to build their own cloud agents as well. Matt, well, maybe it's good to hear, what initially inspired you to try to build OpenInspect?OpenInspect: Ramp, Cloud Agents, and Open SourceCole [00:03:49]: OpenInspect came about, through primarily my clients observing how they were using tools like Claude, OpenAI's Codex at the time, and seeing some of the friction that they were having with it. Primarily the Claude was being used through Slack, and a big issue they ran into was that the sessions that were launched were specific to whoever called it via Slack. And so if a PM was the one who invoked the session and they would then go to pass context to engineering can't see the session. And that in itself was a deal breaker because the PM, “Hey, engineering, can you jump in?” But there's nothing to jump in on unless they're copy-pasting out or the single response that came back. And so seeing some of these problems, I had built a similar architecture internally, just to experiment with, test out different ideas as this trend of moving off of localhost was starting to become, And as Ramp released their blog post, I had a lot of the pieces for this already in place, and just thought it would be funny to, see what Claude could do just purely from the blog post. And on my X account, there's actually a thread of where I live tweeted, going through thisCole [00:05:14]: comparing GPT and Claude as both of them are going through it.Swyx [00:05:17]: On the announcement thing or something else?Cole [00:05:19]: right after it got released. We can put it in the show notes. Yeah, it was helpful that I had already knew how to verify the system. I knew what I was looking for. I think Ramp did a great job of really illustrating, the technical aspects of how to build something. It was much more than just like, “Hey, we built a great system.” It was, “And here's how you can build it too.” And so, I resonated a lot with that, just with the problems that I was already seeing, and I thought that, looking around, I didn't really see anything in the open source community that, met this type of system. I think there's a lot that run, in localhost like Superset, Conductor, and many others.But nothing that was actually running in the cloud. And so, I built it, and I thought it was interesting to just open source it and allow anyone to then have a foundation that they can mix and match on top of.The Business of Background Agents: Open Source vs. DevinSwyx [00:06:16]: So literally after Devin was launched was, there was OpenDevin Which became All Hands. I don't know if you tried that orWalden [00:06:22]: I was going to say, one of the things that interested me a lot with OpenInspect was, you didn't try to go make it then something you monetize. There are a lot of, I think, these open source projects would then go and really try to, raise VSwyx [00:06:36]: That's why no OpenDevin. Yeah.Walden [00:06:38]: yeah, and how did you think about that? I thought that was very interesting.Cole [00:06:44]: I thought, and just what I had seen across my clients, was that having a background agent system is going to become a critical infrastructure within their company. And so because of that, I think that I wanted to open source it so that they could fork it and put in whatever customization they wanted. To that question though, I get asked all, “Oh, are you going to raise? Are you going to turn this into a service?”Walden [00:07:08]: I'm sure you've gotten offers.Cole [00:07:09]: but primarily I don't want to do that for a few reasons. One, I think that I don't want to compete for, $20 a seat. I think that is just a really difficult business. I think it's very easy to copy the main pieces of it. Again, I built this fairly quickly. And I think because you are not owning, I guess, the entire stack, it's hard to monetize. You have money being made at the sandbox layer with Daytona, E2b, many other players. You have money being made at the model layer. And you sit in this weird in-between gray area where what are you actually selling? You're selling, I guess, the infrastructure. You're selling, the integrations maybe.Swyx [00:07:55]: let's ask the guy. What are you What are you selling?Walden [00:07:59]: Well, yeah, there's multiple layers to this in practice, and actually it's funny you mentioned the infrastructure, ‘cause when we got started building Devin as well, we had to go figure out how to make the infrastructure as well because,Swyx [00:08:10]: You had to build this two years before everyone else,?Swyx [00:08:15]: Including, the model sideWalden [00:08:17]: It was not, it was not very polished at the start, when we just built it off of raw VMs from cloud providers like EC2, the boot up time was so slow, I think, And especially then, turning off the machines, saving them, and then to be able to bring them back up again when the, when you want Devin to wake up again later. It would just be out cold for like 10 minutes because that's just how long these systems took. They were not built for this repeated down and up usage. And so we actually had to go do all of that. And as a result now, one thing we offer when we go and sell Devin to people is, you don't have to worry about all the compute side of things. We'll make it work. We'll make it work in your cloud if you want it to. But aside from the product, and I want to go into the agents and the tuning of the intelligence part later, but I think a big part of what we do at Cognition as well is to just make sure that your company learns and uses and adopts these coding agents. ‘Cause I think for especially the largest enterprises in the world, you find that there is a lot of people who want to move over to using AI for their day-to-day workloads. But because of the way projects are planned, because, not everyone is literate in using AI in these ways, having a team of engineers who can actually go in and onboard you, set up all the integrations you need, the automations you need to really get to that level of, leverage with AI, is super helpful. And so We do that. We show thought partners to the customers that we work with as well.Swyx [00:09:56]: So let's talk about, architectural stuff. I think that's always, that is something that was the topic of conversation between the two of you. Is this, the mental model that you want to start with or something else? I'll just leave the floor open to you guys.Agent Architecture: Harness in the Box vs. Out of the BoxCole [00:10:11]: I think, maybe we can start here as just a general what are the pieces of a background agent system. And then maybe we can go into some of the nuances of, Decisions that you can make.Swyx [00:10:22]: But I guess I also Like, what, maybe what Walden is saying is the agent is like in this open code box, I guess. Right? This is infra, and then there's, that's the agent. And you had this discussion about whether you put the agent in here or in Out externally. Can you tease that out?Cole [00:10:39]: In a background agent systems, you have a decision to make of where the agent is actually going to run. This is typically described as the harness in the box or out of the box. With running the agent in the box, you're making some trade-offs by doing that. The negative trade-off you're making is primarily security. Because the agent is running in that box, unless you otherwise design it, all of your secrets need to go into that box as well. And given the nature of AI, it can be unpredictable, and you could very easily end up accidentally exfilling your secrets, or other unintended behavior. Now, the out of the box is the idea that we are going to have the actual agent running not directly in the sandbox, and we will have, quote-unquote, the brain of the agent running in some type of worker, control plane. That sandbox then is going to serve as the hands where the brain is basically operating and making tool calls into that environment to manipulate it. I guess other trade-off that you're making between the two systems is that, in my opinion, running it out of the box is much more complex because, you have state that has to be managed, whereas if you're running it in the box, all of the state of that agent is actually in the box, and yes, it's you could persist it elsewhere, but it's all localized and you have less concerns to worry about.Walden [00:12:08]: I think a lot of that, what you mentioned, is why we actually from the start built Devin to what we called separate the brain from the machine. The other thing that this allows you to do is reuse any existing infrastructure you have for dev boxes Perhaps. And so you don't have to worry as much about making a new type of dev box that has all the dependencies the brain needs, as you mentioned, the secrets the brain needs as well. One thing that we've seen some customers run into is, you have a GitHub app and you want Devin, your agent, whatever, be able to interact with GitHub through this application, but then you have different users with different actual permissions. If they are all interacting through the same GitHub app and there's no actual, separation between the system that decides, what it does and the actual secrets on the machine, then you run into an issue where, okay, it's hard to do the separation. But in practice, with Devin, it's much easier because we just say whatever you put on the machine, that is, the scope of basically what the user is free to do, what the agent is free to do. So only put the most scoped secrets on that machine, and then the brain is fully not accessible from the machine. So you don't have to worry about messing with the, any of the most secure parts of the brain if the user is free to do whatever they want with the machine.Swyx [00:13:31]: I was going to just bring, I have this, chart from OpenAI, where I don't know if this is, in the box, out of the box. That is something that they do use to describe it. And then also recently Anthropic did, managed agentsSwyx [00:13:44]: Which is, this is their thing. I don't know. It's all, it's all variations of the same pattern, right?Cole [00:13:49]: So this would be out of the box.Swyx [00:13:51]: Which, is preferable for them because it's less work?Cole [00:13:56]: I would say it's more work.Swyx [00:13:58]: It's more work?Cole [00:13:58]: But it, in my opinion, it is the better architecture of the two. It's just, you're taking on a bit of complexity by doing that.Repo Setup, Docker, and VM-Based Development EnvironmentsWalden [00:14:07]: One thing I've not seen a lot of other players do well is how do you manage what's actually on the box? And this can be complex for many reasons. Let's say you have a big repository that's changing and updating a lot with changing dependencies. How do you make sure that the working environment of the agent actually stays up to date, has all the credentials it needs to, let's say, run the app and test it, and all the things you want your autonomousSwyx [00:14:34]: So a repo setup.Walden [00:14:35]: Exactly. So in, internally At Cognition, we call this repo setup.Cole [00:14:39]: The hardest part ofWalden [00:14:40]: It's been a perennial problem since the start of the company, of how do we help people get this set up? Because not everyone just has, working cloud environments working out of the box. And do you find this to be a common problem withSwyx [00:14:53]: How do you solve it?Walden [00:14:53]: Your clients?Cole [00:14:54]: This is a very common problem, and through my consulting, this is a lot of what I help teams do. A lot of teams don't really have great developer environment setups, if any. A lot of the times it's, “Go talk to Bob and get the secrets,” and that obviously doesn't work when the agent needs to actually set this up. And so a lot of that, most teams are using Docker Compose or some type of microservices. And so for theSwyx [00:15:19]: Even in prod?Cole [00:15:20]: Not in prod. With the OpenInspect, you are using this primarily to interact, and make code changes. There is other use cases, but you can hook, whether through CLI, MCPs, other tools, you can then hook that into your production systems primarily for, SRE type use cases. But you are not, necessarily, trying to test your prod internal microservice through the system.Walden [00:15:48]: And you mentioned Docker Compose. I think one direction we saw some of our friends take early on was, using Docker containers as the level of abstraction for their models. There's lots of reasons, I think, why Docker containers are not great. One thing is, Docker container's not really a true security boundary, for one. But the other is, if you are running real applications, a lot of times those applications use Docker, and then you have to think about Docker in Docker, which is, really weird. And so I think part of, the really hard challenge of getting VMs to work, why did we do that? Well, it was because we realized that you actually needed, full VMs to be able to do these types of things. And especially nowadays where there's actually value in running the application and clicking around and sending you screen recordings of these things. The value just, keeps adding on top of that. But it is a decision I see people run into when they try to build their own systems, is, “Oh, do we, in addition to this, do we put the agent in the machine or out of the machine? Do we use Docker? Do we use something else?” What do you recommend people nowadays?Cole [00:16:57]: I think Docker is a good solution for maybe not running the agent, but running your infrastructure, because that is more or less the same setup your engineers are probably already using. If they're not, then I don't know what they're using. But they're probably already using Docker Compose.Swyx [00:17:14]: I've always had a small candle for web containers. I don't know if you guys have tried them before.Swyx [00:17:19]: To me, they were, supposed to be like Docker Light.Cole [00:17:22]: Is it?Swyx [00:17:22]: I don't know.Cole [00:17:22]: No, I haven't tried it. But yeah, I think any environment that you've set up that is a good experience for your developer naturally lends itself to being easy to set up for the agent. And once you figure out that local developer story, you've more or less solved the agent in a sandbox, environment setup. OpenInspect does have hooks as well, where you can, run a setup SH script that will pre-install everything. You can then pre-snapshot that build so it starts instantly, and then there is a second hook to actually then, restore the state of the sandbox when it comes back. And so you can already have all of those microservices running and basically get the same experience that you would on your machine within the sandbox.Testing Agents: Computer Use, Screenshots, and Real App WorkflowsWalden [00:18:08]: Another thing that we've been thinking a lot about is like Different VM service offerings. Have you had customers where they needed like macOS specific VMs or like Windows specificWalden [00:18:20]: VMs?Walden [00:18:22]: There are like many technologies in the world that only work on specific types of machines, right? If you're building a.NET application that has to run on Windows or like, maybe more commonly if you want to build iOS or macOS Does that workSwyx [00:18:32]: Does Commission supportSwyx [00:18:33]: Choices like that?Walden [00:18:35]: The fundamental architecture we do, because we do the separation, it does support, but the actual work in progress is happening right now on these. Another thing that we've actually recently added support now for, it's in beta, is doing Android development. To do that, we needed to support, I think, nested virtualization within our machines because the VM itself is like a, is a virtualized Firecracker instance, and then you had to then run another Android emulator inside. And there's like weird performance issues that like, it, which is why it's like still in beta. We have to think through these problems, but it unlocks a lot for anyone who wants to do Android development.Swyx [00:19:13]: I was trying to find like a reference video for the testing thing. I couldn't find it, but I think you worked on the testing, capability. Why call it testing and not like computer use or I don't know, it's, what's the general Category of problem?Walden [00:19:26]: I think that when people think about the ability of an AI to run your app and test it, I think they actually over-index on the computer use part of it because computer use in my mind is the literal, okay, you want what button you want to click. Can you emit the right coordinates to go click that button? I think testing is actually a really interesting likeWalden [00:19:48]: Problem-solving, challenge for these AIs because if you wanted to do arbitrary testing, imagine you make a change that spans the frontend and the backend, maybe, even some other like even more deeply nested service. To actually test that change, we have to reason through what-- how do you first run these applications to orchestrate with each other with the right version of the code? Then, okay, how do I trigger the feature or how do I make the thing actually happen? And this can get arbitrarily hard, maybe you have to be an admin. Maybe a certain thing has to be feature flagged on. Maybe, you have to like run two sessions and then send us a very specific word into one of them to trigger a specific behavior. And figuring out how do you do that requires a lot of code base context, requires, a lot of orchestration that we've specifically done. And in some cases, we found that you actually, no one frontier model can actually do this full end-to-end task itself.Walden [00:20:42]: We've seen cases where we actually had to orchestrate different frontier models together to solve this problem together. That is where we spend most of our time when we think about this testing problem, not so much the computer use part. Computer use for what it's worth has gotten a lot better with recent models and it's made that part of the job certainly easier.Swyx [00:20:58]: Especially with like even 4.7, that they released yesterday, apparently like way better in terms of the vision stuff, which is going to be encompassing computer use.Walden [00:21:08]: Having evals for all these as well is something that like takes a while to build up. And having the evals be right is tricky as well. Do you ever see like, clients who are building their own agents have to start standing up evals to make sure things don't regress?Swyx [00:21:25]: Not so much evals in the traditional sense, but specific to the testing part that has just gone in. I just added support for screenshots And in theory you can also do video. I need to put in a plugin to do that. But they do show up natively, and it was a very heavily requested feature, especially after Cursor's recording came out. I think that was very enlightening for everyone of like, “Oh, this is a very good feature to actually have.”, I think with Devin you guys have had this for a while.Swyx [00:21:57]: Oh, yeah. See how screenshots work. Yeah, I don't know if there's anything, super and not obvious. It's like once what feature to build, you can just prompt it and it Will mostly work.Walden [00:22:09]: I think to Walden's point, though, the computer use is a subset of the larger testing problem, and I think that's very specific to the code base that you're working and it's not something that, out of the box that you could just solve it. The-- you do need the code base context to actually know how to test it. And I think in the case of a background agent system, you fortunately do have that code base locally that what is changing and could then inspect it and use that to drive the model.Swyx [00:22:40]: For those who haven't seen it before, this is an example of how it works. You, after the PR is done, you click testing approved, and then it sends you back a video. What I really like is that it labels, It's very small here, but it actually labels what it's testing. And then it-- and then you actually see the cursor and everything. So I don't know, yeah, the engineering in this, just Whatever you want to show. ‘cause this is like, this is one of those like, oh, few of the AGI moments, right? ‘cause Once I look at this, I actually don't I wish I can just merge inside Of Slack instead of going to GitHub ‘cause I don't need to see the code. I know it works.Walden [00:23:19]: Maybe a new feature in Cursor. Yeah, the annotations at the bottom was also a big difference for me when I, when I added those.Swyx [00:23:27]: It's just like, what am I looking at? What are you trying to demonstrate?Walden [00:23:30]: Exactly. There's a surprisingly long tail of small details that ends up making a big difference for this end metric of like how fast do you actually merge the code in. One experience that we spent a lot of time tuning early on was what is the right experience on GitHub for these tools. Because I think, most tools out there when you build the agent, you'll think about, oh, it'll create the PR for you. We try to take that a step further and say, “Oh, what if we actually made sure you could interact Devin, with direct Devin directly on GitHub?” And so we made sure that you can comment on GitHub, and Devin would actually receive those comments and address them back. But there's actually quite a bit of tuning you have to do here because you can imagine that actually like-We recently have Devin Review, for example. Devin Review will post comments on his own PR And then Devin has to then goGitHub Workflows: Devin Review, Comments, and PR AutomationSwyx [00:24:23]: He answers his own comments, which is Really loopy. So like, yeah, I like that it just updates here that it's, that I have commented But usually it's just me saying like, “Hey, merged, fix any merge conflicts.”Walden [00:24:37]: The, so when Devin fixes his own comments, you might be scared that, oh, maybe I'll infinite loop. But we've put a lot of work into making sure it doesn't, both by making sure that the comments are high signal, but also that the agent is thoughtful about what comments it immediately goes and tries to fix, and what comments it's like, “Wait a second, I think you're wrong.” Actually, that's one of my favorite moments is when Devin tells me that I'm wrong, when I try to get it to do something different. But tuning that behavior, actually makes a big difference in terms of how useful the actual GitHub experience is.Cole [00:25:06]: I think to touch on that as well, I think having the AI reviewer integrated into the system is a critical part of this background system. OpenInspect does have that. It has a GitHub code reviewer that you can control the prompt. It does do comments as well. It doesn't do them automatically yet. The capability is there, but it's not fully used.Swyx [00:25:27]: So you have to ask for it?Cole [00:25:28]: you do, yeah. You can tag it on GitHub, and then whatever you named your, GitHub bot, it will then follow up on it. It will then, if you have merge conflicts or whatever you have asked it to resolve, it will then resolve it, but it doesn't do it automatically yet.Integrations: Slack, MCP, and First-Party Agent InterfacesWalden [00:25:42]: Well, I'm curious, what is, the most common thing that people end up requesting, that they still need on top of OpenInspect when you help them go implement it?Cole [00:25:52]: I think a lot of it comes down to actually integrating it into the company. It's one thing to have the background agent system set up, but if it isn't actually integrated into your larger ecosystem, it isn't that useful. It is useful to be able to kick off sessions, but what we really want to be able to do is hook it into all of our other systems, whether that is the production database with read-only credentials, the logs, a Confluence or internal knowledge-based system. I think that is where I see the huge leap for companies, and that can be a challenge for companies as well who are maybe not familiar with exactly how to approach it, especially if they're in environments that have more compliance type things where, access control can be pretty big and how do you deliberately think about these problems, I find to be, one of the problems that comes with a system like this.Walden [00:26:46]: The thing we found is So, MCPs, obviously it has been like this, really big explosion of, oh, you can go, integrate it with all these different things. But to actually get the integration right and the and get the right experience, oftentimes we found that we had to go build our own ad hoc things. I think Slack is a great example of this. You could give your agent a Slack MCP and okay, it can post messages back to you on Slack. But we actually use Devin like a coworker in Slack, and that's how it's been built from the ground up. But to do that, you actually need to, support webhooks that come back, right? And then Devin has to respond in a natural way and then hopefully don't spam your threads too much and annoy the people in your company. So you got to tune that experience just right. Especially when there's a lot of back and forths, we find that we actually have to go beyond the simple MCP integrations in these places.Swyx [00:27:39]: I just pulled up the MCP marketplace. I know this is a Fair amount of work. Is the answer to eventually take first party control of all the top MCPs? Is that theWalden [00:27:48]: I would love a world where you could have something that's more expressive than MCP. That, goes both ways, not just a set of tools, but a proper system that interacts back and lets it Have the right experience with all these interfaces.Swyx [00:28:03]: So there actually is sampling in the MCP spec, but nobody Uses it, right?Walden [00:28:07]: And so I think that's the other part is, actually we found that when the MCP spec starts to get too complicated, it starts to lose its original promise of Being like a simple one-step connect. Now then we have to go figure out how to support all these different variations of things and It starts to look a lot like just building the first party integrations in a lot of these cases now.Cole [00:28:29]: I think it matters, too, how critical it is to your company, right? If this is something that nearly every session is going through, it probably makes sense to own it so that you can make optimizations on top of it Versus just whatever is off the shelf.Swyx [00:28:43]: Awesome. Other than MCPs, what else, sorry, well, I don't know if that's Narrowing in too much on, integrations. But what else? What other elements of building OpenInspect or Devin that you guys really sink on?Memory and Knowledge: What Agents Should RememberCole [00:28:59]: I think, a problem that comes up very frequently is this idea of memories or knowledge base.Swyx [00:29:05]: Oh, boy. How do you solve it?Cole [00:29:08]: so not solved yet, is the short answer.Cole [00:29:11]: it's something, there's a open issue for it, someone asking about it.Swyx [00:29:16]: There's, I, D Wiki hasn't indexed anything about memory yet.Cole [00:29:20]: how I'm seeing it solved across my clients is primarily through skills. I find that skills can be a good gap within that or updating Claude MD, but I think memory as a whole is a pretty unsolved problem, and it is why I've been hesitant to add it. I think there is parts of memory and that can be addressed, but I think as a whole it's a very difficult retrieval problem.Swyx [00:29:44]: Oh my God. RAMP didn't write anything about memory? I see zero search results.Walden [00:29:50]: No. Memory can be quite tricky to get right because it's the retrieval, but also the generation of the memories that can be really tricky. You don't want it to just like Remember very specific details.Swyx [00:29:59]: Walk us through the Devin memory journey because I know there's been a journey.Walden [00:30:03]: the first version of memory that like stuck around for a while was A system we have called Knowledge. And the idea was we wanted it to pick up things over time and not need the user to be proactive about teaching Devin things. So, okay, any time you remind Devin, “Wait, no, that's not quite the way you're supposed to use Git”Like, we actually want Devin to say, “Hey, do you want me to actually just remember this for the future?” And for you to just basically quickly approve or reject and for it to build up over time. ‘Cause I find that, 95%, I think, or some crazy stat like that of the memories that Devin has are all through these auto-generated things. Very few people actually just want to sit down and write big docs on Here's how you're supposed to work with the technology, et cetera. The generation and the retrieval has been something that we've been trying to tune a lot over the years. Generation, you don't want it to remember something like, if you asked one time to like, “Oh, please open as a draft PR,” you don't want to be like, “Oh, everyone forever now should get their PRs as draft PRs.” But you do want some, conveyor. Maybe you want to say like, “Oh, Cole generally likes, things to be created as draft PRs.” Same with retrieval, if you have thousands of these memories, how do you actually make sure they're retrieved at the right time? And that can be quite tricky to do right without exploding the context with a bunch of useful yeah, useless information. Surprising amount of just, eval work to just make sure that, memory is, remains a reliable system as new models come and go.Cole [00:31:31]: Do you have anything that you could share on, memory pruning? And like the temporal aspect of memory?Swyx [00:31:36]: Deleting and forgetting?Walden [00:31:39]: The, today, the, So the things they could do is it could edit memories. And so if your memory used to say like, “Oh, Cole likes to open everything as like a draft PR,” then you can imagine, “No, don't do that.” And then it'll say, “Oh, do you want me to update the memory to be Cole now want everything as, open PRs?” I think that at the same time we don't know if this is going to be the final version of the system. Whatever we have here will probably, translate into the new system that we'll be coming up with. But I think one big difference between two years ago and today is these agents are really good at using anything that resembles a file system natively. And so part of us are, is thinking, “Oh, should we rebuild memories to feel more like a file system that we let the agent navigate on its own?” That's been an interesting exploration. Also similar ideas in the scale space.Swyx [00:32:35]: I am pulling up OpenClaude's memory thing right now. So memory, OpenClaude has like this like daily memory journal thing, right? And you can I mean, that is a file system you can grep through and is a source of truth. I don't know if it's the best. It's probably super noisy, but at least, if you lose something you can discover it or you can apply some, forgetting algorithm to, more ancient memories that don't get recalled again or something. I don't know.Walden [00:33:01]: One thing we've been trying to do to push the boundaries of how you use agents at your company is letting an agent basically have a very similar file, a memory.md or something, and just like be your permanent PM for a specific set of issues maybe. So we have like some Slack channels internally, maybe a Slack channel dedicated to, a specific product like DeepWiki maybe. And you can imagine that, or you want a Devin that never stops, it's just always awake, but it has this like memory dock that it can just maintain for itself about, okay, what are like the number one priorities of what we have to fix and prioritize? Who is responsible for some upcoming work? Maybe they'll even Devin will even tag you on some recurring basis. And so it's been an interesting move to see, okay, how can we actually use Devin for more than just engineering? Can we actually upstream above the engineering process and maybe it's just Devin creating tickets, which then maybe some humans do, but then maybe other Devins do.Swyx [00:34:00]: One of my more fun automations is go research competitors and just suggest stuff to me on a weekly basis. That's the automation. I can't find it right now, but basically it just like, “Look at competitors and suggest things.” “And here are three things that you've suggested that I don't want any more of,” and you just stick that in the prompts. But like I wish actually So for like when I, for example, when I reject a PR, I wish that it updated memory so that I can then just not have to go up, go back and update the scheduled, sync, but anyway, feature request.Walden [00:34:31]: what? We might change it soon. I guess OpenInspect, in the time you've been around, has there been anything you tried to implement but then you had to like undo and like do a different way?OpenInspect Architecture: Webhooks, Control Planes, and Agent StateCole [00:34:41]: Nothing yet, but something that is on my mind. The initial way that I built it was that each of the integrations lives as its own package. And so you have The Slack bot, which is what's handling the webhooks, and then is basically interacting with the control plane. As I'm seeing the system starting to be more integrated, specifically with the GitHub bot integration, I'm considering bringing that all into the central control plane because especially now I want to start, And a request that I'm getting is the ability to monitor, the actual, pull requests being merged, as well as just tracking ofSwyx [00:35:19]: What do I have open?Cole [00:35:21]: What do I have open? How many of these are getting merged? How many comments are showing up? To just understand the health of the system. And so in the case of a GitHub app, you only have one webhook. And so then it's a question of do I put that webhook in that GitHub bot package? That's weird. It doesn't really make sense to live there because that package is more for like the code reviewer. Or do I like centralize it? So that's something that's on my mind of, making that decision. I think the other one we touched on earlier is the harness in the box versus out of the box. I think long term the architecture will eventually come back out of the box. Some of the newer tools that I've added are calling back into the control plane so that you don't have the secrets in the sandbox. And so I think long term I probably will pull the actual, agent out of the box, but I think for now it's fine.Subagents and Multi-Agent Systems: When Parallelism Helps or HurtsSwyx [00:36:16]: Just, a quick question on pulling the agent out of the box. I'm One thing I'm very bullish on this year is agents calling other agents or spawning sub-agents or Whatever you want to call it. Does that make it harder or easier? I can't tell. Because if the harness is in the box, you can just spin up more boxes. If the harness is outside the box, then you're, it's less easy because you are, you have a unicorn pet of a, of a harness that's, living outside the box.Cole [00:36:45]: In theory it would be the same way, right? Whether, one agent has launched many, sub-sessions within it, OpenInspect, for example, can launch sub-sessions and actually create other environments and then monitor them. In the case where it is out of the box, that would basically just be an additional session that's running. And so that session is also running outside of the box. It's running in your worker plane, wherever you're running this. And then you really just have to think about how does your top level agent then interact with it. I do think it can be more complex, just ‘cause again, you have now a more difficult architecture. But I think if you figured it out once, it's probably fine.Swyx [00:37:26]: Well, then I'm just, throwing it open to you in terms of, I call this like meta Devin management. Which is like the, Devin's calling Devins or Devin scheduling Devins or querying trajectories or anything like that. What have you built or unshipped, anything?Cole [00:37:46]: I think one of the surprising things we've seen is that a lot of the ways that, these, separate agents work with each other, and you want them to, parallelize their work, has still mostly followed the same manager sub-agents regime. And a lot of people I think are excited about this world where you have swarms of agents that, talk with each other all over the place. We've actually given Devin an MCP so they can just go arbitrarily message other Devins And create new Devins, et cetera. But I guess, it somehow creates, a really chaotic world in that sense. And so we've still found that most practical use on a day-to-day basis has been one single Devin.Cole [00:38:33]: Figuring out how to segregate the work and get, have other Devins work on it in, a relatively isolated sense, each with their own boxes Not sharing machines, so there's, a very little room for conflict is the regime that you have to create today.Swyx [00:38:50]: I'll call out, the experiments from Cursor, right? This is Wilson Lin's work on Single agent to multi-agent, and you're obviously famously on the side of don't build multi-agent. But they went through the whole thing, only to arrive at, this Which is exactly what Devin has, I think.Cole [00:39:08]: I think there will be a revision to that post at some point AboutSwyx [00:39:12]: Tell us about itCole [00:39:12]: I think multi-agents were very much not at all possible a year ago. You do see more multi-agent experiments today, but you can argue, are they really multi-agents, or are they just just, tool calls,? There are people who, will create sub-agents to go look for XYZ file, XYZ implementation. Has really nice context management benefits because all of the tool calls and tokens that it spends then get collapsed back to just the answer for the main agent. There's a lot of benefits to doing this. We basically have Devin do this with Deep Bookie, make a call out to Deep Bookie, give you back the results, but that feels like a tool call,? It's not like these, two collaborators actually talking back with each, back and forth with each other. But I think the thing that gives me the most bullishness that multi-agents might actually be possible is actually what I said earlier about Devin will actually sometimes tell me I'm wrong and push back, and I think that demonstrates a level of maturity and communication today that makes a multi-agent world possible. One, can two agents who have seen different information come back to each other and actually figure out who is right, what is the correct implementation? They're not just, yes men. Claude, I guess is like, used to just say, what is it? “You're right,” or,Swyx [00:40:25]: “You're absolutely right.”Cole [00:40:26]: “You're absolutely right.” Yeah.Swyx [00:40:28]: The Have you seen, did you seeCole [00:40:29]: The age is overSwyx [00:40:30]: The Codex app troll in Topic? This is the Codex app. Inside of Settings, there's a little, there's a little Easter egg, right? So if you go to, the Themes or Appearance, right? There's all these, color codes, and the top is absolutely, and it's the Topic's colors. Which is such a troll. Anyway.Model Behavior: Pushback, Adversarial Prompts, and Agent SkepticismCole [00:40:53]: I love that Easter egg. Did you discover that yourself?Swyx [00:40:54]: No, it was, someone was, tweeting about it And I was like, I was like, “Is this true?” Because, sometimes people just tweet stuff to, get a rise out of you. But yeah, there you go, in Topic colors.Cole [00:41:06]: Yeah. So yeah, we're out of this regime where, it just says you're absolutely right, and they can have real conversations and real back and forths.Swyx [00:41:13]: You can prompt it as well to be more adversarial or whatever. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that, I mean, to me, that is more intelligence, right? That is not just something that's, a dumb tool, it's actually pushing back on you I think. Yeah.Cole [00:41:24]: when you mentioned, of course, the blog posts. There was one blog they had where they fed a swarm of agents together and built a browser.Swyx [00:41:34]: That was I think that was the one.Cole [00:41:36]: You can have, likeSwyx [00:41:37]: I think it's the same oneCole [00:41:37]: Creation of it. We found a surprising success of, don't do a swarm or anything, just have one Devin, it does its own context management. Just let it keep running for a while and give it some crazy tasks. I think we asked it to, rebuild, a Windows OS system. And it managed to do it just like, going on for long enough. It'sSwyx [00:41:55]: Was this Andrew's thing?Cole [00:41:58]: there were lots of demos that we ended up not posting, ‘cause at some point we'd just be posting way too much a bunch of, Demos. But I love that because it shows that I think the multi-agent thing still has, a bit of exciting sexiness to it, which is maybe still beyond still, the actual delta it adds to the capabilities of these systems. But it's absolutely the future. I think we're heading in that direction and we can see the progress being made there already.Swyx [00:42:25]: If I were to, make one super minor pushback because I don't feel that confident about it yetCole [00:42:33]: Go for itSwyx [00:42:33]: But I've had Ryan Lopopolo from OpenAI on the pod And he's a super slop cannon, right? Oh my God, that's my coding agent being done. I downloaded this, Peon Ping. I don't know if you guys have heard this. It takes like-, sound packs from popular games like, Command and Conquer and Warcraft, and then it plays it whenever it's done. And so it's like, “Work,” or whatever, “At your command,” or something. Anyway, what I got from the Cursor code base and from Ryan's thing was that there's a slop cannon approach where you try to loosen the single agent's, bottleneck, and I feel like that is, probably an, a very important thing to try to figure out. I don't think anyone's, really solved it. Because then you just have more reviewer slop on top of the agent slop To try to wrangle it all. Ryan will probably very strongly object that I say that he hasn't solved it, but he thinks he's He thinks he's completely solved it. But I think it's still I think it's, very important, ‘cause, that is a bottleneck, right? I feel Devin is slow sometimes Because I'm like, well, yeah, this is very readable and very sensible, but also it is slower than it could be if I just, I want a button to just say, “Just ramp this up 1,000 next parallel, in parallel and just, see what happens,”? And I don't know if that's, feasible at some point in the future.Code Review, Entropy, and AI SlopWalden [00:43:55]: I And we've also run experiments internally where we've basically tried to build entire products, true products that we knew we would eventually ship, but for now, let's try to see if we can do it just by purely, vibe coding on top of each other, auto merge, no code review at all. And then there's this benchmark of how many weeks can you go onto this for Before you say, “We have the trashiest code base.”Walden [00:44:18]: “Let's actually rewrite it from scratch.”Swyx [00:44:19]: Start a new factory, yeah. What'd you find?Walden [00:44:21]: I think we found that the state-of-the-art in December was you can probably, run this for about two weeks. By the end of those two weeks, you'd find that, hey, you want to, change the color of a button. Well, it turns out this button is implemented in, 10 different places, and they, have All these different variations, and oh, you forgot one of them, and actually it's a slightly different color in one spot. And you're like, “Okay, this is too much to work with. Let's actually try to do code review at the same time.” And make sure that we're on top of our software, actually cleaning it up a bit And making sure it's done in a scalable way.Cole [00:44:54]: I think building on that, the idea of, you don't have to look at code, I think is generally a bad idea. And the meme that I have for thatWalden [00:45:03]: What timeline, all right, is Do you think that statement will be true on?Cole [00:45:06]: I think probably for a while it'll be true that you should continue to look at your code. A problem that I see a lot of teams run into that I work with who are embracing AI native, AI first coding, is The meme that I have is that your code base regresses to your worst engineer, because that engineer who is, very gung-ho about AI and is not auditing their code, their pattern starts cementing into the code, and now the AI is referencing their patterns. And so now their if/else block that, is 20 if/elses back and forth, the AI is seeing that as the pattern of how things are done and starts to then exponentially grow this slop. And I find to your point, a pretty good approach to that is having scheduled cleanup, whether by humans or through systems, that are looking for duplication. They then address that. You'll end up with like 12 helpers for how to format a date. And you need to address that, because otherwise it will continue to sprawl.Swyx [00:46:09]: Within balance, I think it's fine to have some duplication, and then sometimes To have garbage collection, right? Yeah. The What I've been, talking about with a lot of engineering leaders is that you want to be very strict about the boundaries between modules, and it's your job as an architect, as a CTO, whatever, to say like, “Okay, here's the hard contract between you guys and you guys. Whatever you do inside this black box is your business. You do whatever. But between these guys, let's be, really damn clear, and any movement must be signed off by a human or me,” or. Then, and like that's that. I don't know if you have any other modifications or advice.Walden [00:46:44]: Well, I guess generally on the topic of, where humans can be useful, I found that ‘cause, some of these, really deep infra problems, sometimes just having a human that just has, really deep expertise can make a big difference. I've actually seen this come into play when actually building agents. So we've had a few friends now, try building their own coding agents, and I think one same problem that I recurringly heard a lot of them run into was this problem of like, “Oh, Grep is really slow on our agents' machines.” And so a lot of them, I assume because they're using AI and they themselves don't have, super deep infra background knowledge, say, “Okay, we're going to go build our own custom Grep index. It's going to be really fast,” and use that as a way around this problem. When we ran into this problem About like, maybe like a year and a half ago when we were, in the early days of building Devin, we obviously didn't have AI then. We just asked our, how to, how to do this. You can just swap out a new Grep index, so.Infrastructure Details: Grep, File Systems, and SandboxesSwyx [00:47:45]: What do you mean you hand-coded Devin? What?Walden [00:47:48]: It's like, can you believe we hand-wrote this code? And we had, our infra people who are really amazing, they were looking into it and they're like, “Oh, what? We realized that actually the root cause of this problem is actually super simple, but like fine-grain detail,” which is that a lot of these virtual machines actually underlying them don't use real file systems. They use these, network file systems where things are actually cached over the network actually in S3. So when you're Grepping, you're actually making network calls Every time you're doing these things, and that's why Grep is extremely slow on these machines. And so again, goes back to, what is all of the crazy infra work that we had to do to actually get these machines working. If you try to do this yourself, there are tons of small details like this, and so we had to eventually go swap out that network file system. ButSwyx [00:48:35]: I think there's a write-up about it, right? Silas did one about the virtual file system.Walden [00:48:38]: Oh, that was a whole other thing. TheSwyx [00:48:39]: Oh, that's a different thingWalden [00:48:40]: The BlockDev file storage formatSwyx [00:48:42]: I'll bring it upWalden [00:48:42]: Which is, a file system format that we built so that the VMs could be spun up and down very quickly. Basically, the intuition behind this is-Imagine you have, a terabyte of disk, and your agent only, wrote, a hundred lines of code on top of that disk. How long does it, say, take to, save and re-bring up that disk? And most systems, because you're not optimizing for this case, it's just, on the order of a terabyte of work because you have to Save all of that and bring it back up. In our system, we try to build a file system that incrementally builds on top of each other. So every time you save and bring the machine back up, you're only doing work that is proportional to effectively the diff in the file system. And so this, shaves off a lot of time in the boot-up process of Devin. I think we This is actually now outdated. We have a newer system inside of Devin. But yeah, there's a lot of tiny details you have to get right here to actually get the day-to-day experience of Devin to be good.Swyx [00:49:39]: It's, not technically agents, but it is agent infra, and when you sell an agent as a company, you sell agent plus agent infra.Walden [00:49:46]: At least the way we do it be And the other The nice thing about having the agent infra being done together is, you We get to deploy Devin in whatever environment we want now. We don't need to wait for some underlying infra provider to also go and support VPC or on-prem or FedGovCloud, for instance. So we can actually go and figure out, okay, since we own the infrastructure, how can we get that set up for you?Cloud Providers: Modal, Daytona, and Enterprise SandboxesSwyx [00:50:12]: Whereas you're Cloudflare dependent.Cole [00:50:15]: so Cloudflare runs the control plane. The sandboxes, Modal is supported. A contributor just added Daytona. E2B is on the roadmap, and I think there's an abstraction in place that if any contributor wants to add a new provider, they can add that in.Walden [00:50:32]: Well, what are, How are the customers you work with Do they generally try to then go set up a contract with another one of these third-party providers? Do they try to do the VMs in-house?Cole [00:50:44]: most of them I see using Modal. I think Modal has a greatWalden [00:50:48]: Shout out Modal.Swyx [00:50:48]: Shout out Modal.Cole [00:50:50]: I think Modal has a great offering. It captures all of the sandbox pieces you need, snapshots being a pretty big piece of that, and given that they also offer GPUs, I think it's a pretty nice offering as a whole.Swyx [00:51:04]: no debate there.Walden [00:51:07]: Modal is great, especially, I think their container offering is, the most natural, and so especially if you are willing to, forego, the full VM requirements Modal is, a really vast place you can spin something up on.Swyx [00:51:20]: Is there a point So Modal's very Python, and I feel like most workload, has really shifted to JavaScript. I don't know if you guys Get the same feeling. So, okay, when I started Landspace and IE and all these things, I was like 50/50 Python and JS, right? That's roughly. I think that's wrong now. I think JS has won. I don't know if you guys Like, I Maybe I'm overstating it, and maybe for cognition, there's, C# and Java and what have you. But for, new greenfield apps, do you feel that Do you get that sense? Does it matter?Cole [00:51:52]: I think that most of the libraries that I see in this space are Python native first, especially in theCole [00:51:58]: Observability space. That said, I think that there is a pretty big appeal of having your entire system in one language. Especially when you have both your frontend and backend communicating, you can have one central type Which is very nice.Swyx [00:52:11]: That's my case against Modal, which is Then you have to run JS. You can run JS inside Modal. It's just, one extra step That, isn't native to the runtime. I don't know ifWalden [00:52:22]: I don't knowSwyx [00:52:23]: Reviews. Do you have numbers? I don't know.Walden [00:52:25]: the one thing I don't like about Python is whenever AI, whenever it writes Python, it always does, the weirdest patterns, andSwyx [00:52:32]: Oh, because it's, mixing two and three or what?Walden [00:52:34]: I think it's something mixing two and three, yeah. The I don't know if you see this. It always tries to do, has attribute on objects as likeCole [00:52:41]: Oh, my God.Walden [00:52:41]: But it's like But that you shouldn't be doing that. It should error if there wasSwyx [00:52:45]: Because it's training on library code?Cole [00:52:47]: I think it's more of, likeCole [00:52:48]: From what I've seen, it's more of, a reward hacking mechanism where it doesn't want to basicallyWalden [00:52:54]: It'll never error.Cole [00:52:54]: It doesn't want the code to fail. And so it Even when it knows it has the attribute, it'll call getattr on a, and for a lot of my clients who have moved towards more autonomous coding, we've put that in as a lint rule That if you do getattr, your pull request is going to fail.Slop Signatures: Comments, Backwards Compatibility, and TypesSwyx [00:53:12]: Ooh, this is a fun topic. Can you tell me more about this? What else is a sign of AI coding that you have to put guards in?Walden [00:53:21]: So we were talking just before this about Opus 4.7. One of the things this new model likes to do is it writes lots of comments. Not like, it'll, comment every line, but it'll write, paragraph, PRDs, on top of every function. But I will say, to its credit, these aren't slop, descriptions like they were before. “Oh, here's what this function does.” It's like, “Oh, here's actually the r

¡Episodio 800 de Atareao con Linux! Parece que fue ayer cuando empecé a grabar las primeras entregas compartiendo mis andanzas en el mundo de los servidores y el código abierto, y mirad hasta dónde hemos llegado. Muchísimas gracias de todo corazón por acompañarme en este viaje, por cada comentario, por cada descarga y por estar siempre ahí al otro lado del auricular trasteando y cacharreando conmigo.Para conmemorar este número tan redondo, hoy vamos a seguir explorando el apasionante mundo del Model Context Protocol (MCP), esa tecnología que está revolucionando la forma en la que interactuamos con la Inteligencia Artificial de forma local. Si en el episodio anterior nos centramos en una herramienta pasiva para consultar la previsión del tiempo, hoy vamos a dar un paso de gigante hacia la acción. Te voy a explicar en detalle cómo he diseñado e implementado un servidor MCP ToDo que dota a tu IA local de una memoria persistente a largo plazo. Sí, has escuchado bien: ¡vamos a curar de una vez por todas la amnesia de los modelos de lenguaje!Mi propuesta: Un gestor de tareas local programado en RustPara atajar este problema, me puse manos a la obra y programé un servidor MCP específico para la gestión de tareas utilizando Rust.Poniéndolo a prueba en vivo y en directoDurante el episodio de hoy te cuento exactamente cómo tengo desplegada esta solución en mi servidor doméstico.Optimización de tokens: El arte de no saturar a la IAUn detalle técnico fundamental que abordo en este episodio es el control y optimización del contexto.Capítulos del episodio: 00:00:00 Intro: El hito del episodio 800 y el problema de la memoria en las IA 00:00:32 El consumo de tokens y los límites de la ventana de contexto 00:01:22 Herramientas externas para dotar de memoria a los modelos de lenguaje 00:03:26 Solucionando la "amnesia" de la IA con una base de datos local 00:04:44 Implementación técnica: Un servidor MCP rápido en Rust con Podman y Docker 00:06:14 Cómo configurar la integración del MCP ToDo en OpenWeb UI paso a paso 00:08:29 Demostración en vivo: Listar, añadir y consultar tareas pendientes 00:09:56 El reto del lenguaje natural, el formato de fechas y los logs internos 00:12:05 Gestión avanzada: Marcar tareas completadas y asignar etiquetas 00:14:52 ¿Cómo funciona bajo el capó? Operaciones CRUD y base de datos relacional 00:16:42 Por qué elegí SQLite frente a JSON (búsquedas rápidas con FTS5) 00:18:22 El truco para evitar que tu IA colapse: Paginación y control de tokens 00:20:20 Seguridad de archivos: El rol del MCP como intermediario seguro 00:22:16 El siguiente nivel: De la consulta pasiva de información a la escritura activa 00:23:21 El puente definitivo hacia las bases de datos vectoriales y RAG 00:23:58 Próximo Workshop presencial sobre IA local en Linux Center (Slimbook) 00:24:52 Código abierto en GitHub, infografías de Atareao y avance del próximo episodio 00:25:54 Despedida, comunidad y la red de podcasts de Sospechosos HabitualesMás información y enlaces en las notas del episodio

Este contenedor Docker es capaz de actualizar nuestros dominios en Cloudflare y otros registradores con la IP pública de nuestra conexión. Es algo que siempre viene bien tener automatizado.

En el episodio anterior te estuve hablando de tres pilares fundamentales que cambian por completo las reglas del juego cuando queremos ir un paso más allá de los modelos de lenguaje convencionales: el RAG (la memoria), las habilidades y las herramientas. Hoy no nos vamos a quedar en las nubes de la teoría. Hoy nos arremangamos y vamos directos al turrón con un ejemplo totalmente práctico, porque al final lo que queremos es ver cómo se hace, cómo se lleva a cabo en nuestro propio servidor y cómo podemos empezar a sacarle partido a estas tecnologías desde ya.¿Por qué Rust es el rey del cacharreo con MCPs?Si buscas tutoriales en la red, verás que la inmensa mayoría de servidores MCP se desarrollan en Python. No me malinterpretes, Python es fantástico para escribir código rápido, pero en el mundo de los microservicios autohospedados y los contenedores tiene ciertos inconvenientes difíciles de ignorar. Python tarda más en arrancar y consume una cantidad considerable de memoria RAM por el simple hecho de existir.Por este motivo decidí programar todos mis MCPs utilizando Rust. Rust nos compila un binario nativo, limpio y directo. No hay intérpretes pesados de por medio. La latencia de respuesta es prácticamente cero, el consumo de memoria es insignificante y se ejecuta a una velocidad de vértigo. Además, gracias a editores modernos equipados con IA como OpenCode, una vez que logras pulir y estructurar tu primer MCP en Rust (por ejemplo, el del tiempo), crear el siguiente es sencillísimo. Solo tienes que proporcionarle a tu herramienta de código la estructura de tu primer desarrollo y pedirle que adapte esa misma lógica para conectar cualquier otra API o base de datos que necesites. ¡Es una delicia ver cómo escala el sistema!Bajo el capó: APIs públicas, Docker y QuadletsPara hacer realidad este MCP meteorológico, he combinado el poder de dos APIs públicas muy conocidas:Nominatim (OpenStreetMap): Como las APIs del tiempo necesitan coordenadas geográficas (latitud y longitud), Nominatim se encarga de traducir textos legibles como "Valencia" o "Tokio" en datos numéricos de localización.Open-Meteo: Recibe las coordenadas enviadas por el MCP y devuelve la previsión meteorológica actual, horaria o diaria sin necesidad de usar claves de API complejas ni registros restrictivos.Todo este flujo de datos se empaqueta de forma elegante en un contenedor de Docker y se gestiona mediante un Quadlet de Podman para garantizar que se inicie de forma nativa e integrada con el sistema operativo de nuestro servidor.Y más adelante nos sumergiremos en el fascinante universo del RAG local.Capítulos del episodio:00:00:00 Introducción y repaso del episodio anterior00:00:43 El problema de los modelos estáticos de IA00:01:29 El ejemplo práctico: Preguntando el tiempo00:03:20 Ahorro extremo de tokens con MCP00:04:49 Taller de IA agéntica y automatización con Slimbook00:06:22 Cacharreando con DeepSeek V4 Flash en OpenCode00:07:33 ¿Qué es y cómo funciona un MCP?00:09:13 Por qué desarrollo mis MCPs en Rust (y no en Python)00:11:13 Limpieza de datos y gestión de errores00:12:40 Cómo conectar un MCP a Open Web UI paso a paso00:14:18 Probando la previsión meteorológica en vivo00:15:37 El motor bajo el capó: Open-Meteo, Nominatim y Docker00:17:25 Codegraph: Analizando código para ahorrar tokens00:18:22 Próximo episodio: Guardar tareas persistentes con MCP To Do00:19:48 Otros MCPs listos para el taller de IA00:21:22 El futuro del podcast: RAG local, notas y más cacharreo00:22:50 Despedida, enlaces de interés y cierreMás información, enlaces y notas en https://atareao.es/podcast/799

Jake, Ari and Woody discuss the loss to Fremantle, umpires, Max Hall, and preview a big Thursday night match against the Hawks.No lock in contract. No hidden fees. Join Revo Fitness from just $9.69 per week for 24/7 access to any club across Australia. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Take the 2026 AI Engineering Survey and get >$2k in credits and AIE WF tickets!On the product side, everyone is getting Computer - Perplexity, Manus, Cursor, and so on. Meanwhile on the research side, agentic evals like TerminalBench and GDPVal are also assuming computer (Harbor). On both ends, the consolidating LLM OS stack has become a standard toolkit, and Daytona is one of a small set of AI Infra companies that are booming because of it.“The end of localhost” has been Ivan Burazin's obsession for more than a decade.Something that is all too familiar…Long before agents became the default way people talked about software development, Ivan was already chasing the idea that development should not depend on a fragile local machine. CodeAnywhere, one of the first browser-based IDEs, was an early attempt at that future: move the development environment into the cloud, make setup reproducible, and free developers from the endless “works on my machine” tax.The thesis was directionally right, but the market wasn't ready yet.However, agents changed that. They do not care about a laptop, desk setup, or favorite editor. They need a computer they can access through an API: something stateful enough to keep working, fast enough to spin up instantly, flexible enough to resize, isolated enough to be safe, and composable enough to run the messy real-world workflows that real software engineering actually requires.Daytona isn't just selling “sandboxes” in the narrow code-execution sense. It is the latest version of Ivan's original localhost thesis.In this episode, Daytona's CEO joins swyx to explain why AI agents need more than code execution boxes: they need composable computers, stateful sandboxes, instant startup, dynamic resources, and infrastructure that can survive workloads going from zero to 100,000 CPUs.We go deep on the new agent compute market: Daytona's hard pivot from human dev environments to AI sandboxes, the New Year's Eve MVP that customers begged for, why Daytona runs on bare metal with its own scheduler, how one customer runs almost 850,000 sandboxes a day, and why RL/eval workloads went from 0% to roughly 50% of usage in just months. Ivan also explains why agents need Windows and macOS machines, why CLI may matter more than MCP, why Kubernetes is painful for this workload, and why the future AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWS.We discuss:* How Daytona grew out of CodeAnywhere, Shift, and the “end of localhost” thesis* Why Daytona pivoted from human dev environments to AI sandboxes* Why agents need composable computers instead of disposable code execution boxes* The New Year's Eve MVP that customers chased API keys for* Why Daytona chose bare metal, stateful snapshots, and its own scheduler* How Daytona spins up one sandbox in ~60ms and 50,000 sandboxes in ~75 seconds* Why Daytona's biggest customer runs ~850,000 sandboxes a day* How RL/eval workloads create zero-to-100,000 CPU spikes* Why RL workloads went from 0% to roughly 50% of Daytona usage* Why customers compare Daytona against EKS/GKS and say they're “never going back”* Why every AI agent may need a computer, including Windows and macOS environments* The Apple licensing constraints that make macOS sandboxes hard* Why CLI gives agents more power than MCP* How open source helps agents integrate Daytona* Why agent-generated PRs may break today's CI/CD assumptions* Why AI SaaS companies reselling tokens may face a cold shower* Why the AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWSIvan Burazin* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanburazin* X: https://x.com/ivanburazinDaytona* Website: https://www.daytona.io* X: https://x.com/daytonaioTimestamps* 00:00:00 Hook* 00:01:12 Introduction* 00:03:15 CodeAnywhere, Shift, and the end of localhost* 00:05:58 What Daytona is: composable computers for AI agents* 00:08:07 The pivot from dev environments to AI sandboxes* 00:10:17 The New Year's Eve MVP and customers begging for API keys* 00:12:56 Bare metal, stateful sandboxes, and Daytona's scheduler* 00:17:28 60ms startup, 50,000 sandboxes, and 850K daily runs* 00:21:53 Spiky RL/eval workloads and the new agent infra problem* 00:28:12 RL workloads, Kubernetes pain, and dynamic resizing* 00:33:31 Why every AI agent needs a computer* 00:38:48 macOS sandboxes and Apple's licensing problem* 00:44:28 Why CLI may matter more than MCP* 00:48:11 Open source, GitHub stars, and agent integration* 00:53:11 Git, CI/CD, and agent collaboration bottlenecks* 00:58:15 Founder life and building a 25-person infra company* 01:02:44 AI SaaS, token resale, and API-first business models* 01:06:10 GPU sandboxes, data centers, and compute growth* 01:09:48 Why the AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWS* 01:11:26 Closing thoughtsTranscriptIntroduction: Daytona, CodeAnywhere, and the End of LocalhostSwyx [00:00:02]: Okay, we're in the studio with Ivan Burazin, CEO of Daytona. Welcome.Ivan [00:00:07]: Thanks for having me, man.Swyx [00:00:08]: Ivan, you and I go back.Ivan [00:00:10]: Way back.Swyx [00:00:11]: How I don't even know how, you found, did you reach out or, for Shift.Ivan [00:00:17]: I reached out to you. The reason was you - we were just - we were thinking about I was one of the co-founders of CodeAnywhere, the first browser-based IDE, and so we were thinking a long time of, localhost should die. And you had this article.Swyx [00:00:29]: End of localhost.Ivan [00:00:30]: Then I reached out to you because of that, and then we talked, and I was actually at a different job and learning about I was the head of, developer experience, and you were quite well-versed in that, and I actually reached out to you, among other people, how do we go about that? What are the key things and whatnot at this point in time? And you were nice enough to take the call, and I remember I was late on your call with you.Swyx [00:00:51]: I don't remember.Ivan [00:00:52]: I remember because I was with my then I'm thinking of a girlfriend or wife at that point in time, I'm not sure. It's the same person, so that's great, and I was late ‘cause we were, in, Italy on, vacation, and then I was late for something. I felt so bad, and you were so nice to be, good about.Swyx [00:01:10]: The reason I'm nice is because I'm also late to other people, so it's like, who's, who's without sin here, yeah, so I have to, for those who don't know, InfoBip Shift, there's this whole thing that, you did in the past, and, and that was basically one of the inspirations for me starting AI Engineer, which is like, I have to thank you for giving me that push to be like, “Oh, you can, you can build and sell conferences?”Ivan [00:01:34]: I remember you asked you asked me at the beginning to give me advisory shares, and I was so focused on what we were doing, I said no, and I should've took the advisory shares. So I'm sorry, dude. But anyway.Swyx [00:01:43]: We're not, we're not venture backed.Ivan [00:01:44]: No, it doesn't matter.Swyx [00:01:45]: It's Yeah, anyway, so I think what's impressive about you is that CodeAnywhere is the thing that you've been trying to build, and, you kind of put it on hold and then came back after InfoBip. Just give us the story, do you - the story and the origin story, going into Daytona.From CodeAnywhere and Shift to DaytonaIvan [00:02:05]: Sure. Like, really way back, me and my co-founder have been together. I say this, I've said this multiple times, it's like we were married and divorced and married. Some people actually ask me is my co-founder my partner. they thought it literally. It's not literally, but we have done multiple companies together, and to your point, we had this shift where we went from the CodeAnywhere to the conference called Shift, and then back to, Daytona. We originally started stacking servers, doing like virtualization in the early 2000s and, routers and doing basically all these things, at a foundational level, and that was a services company which we sold to focus on what my co-founder actually invented, which was the very first browser-based IDE, right, I say the first. Before us was actually Heroku. They did it for a very short time until they became Heroku. But outside of them, we were the only one, and it was called.Swyx [00:02:55]: There was Cloud9.Ivan [00:02:57]: Cloud9 came out slightly after us. There was Replit, which came out when we stopped doing it, Replit came out, and they have been successful since then, which is great. There was Nitrous.io. There was quite a few that existed at the time, but it was like too early. But the interesting part is that we, at that point in time, because there was no VS Code, there was no Kubernetes, and Docker had just started when we Or I'm not sure if it was even public at that point in time. And so we had to build everything to the whole stack ourselves and that was the key learning that we brought into and that we've been using in Daytona today. So it was super early. There's about 3 million people used CodeAnywhere. It was slightly, it was angel-backed more than venture-backed. We ended up paying everyone back because it didn't have that sort of scale. But, three years ago, we started something similar with Daytona, which is not what we are today, but it was automating dev environments for human engineers, the basically the underlying stack of CodeAnywhere. And then we did a hard pivot last January to sandboxes. And so here we are.Swyx [00:04:01]: Historic pivot, yeah, and, it's one of those things where, I had independently invested in CodeAnywhere, but also in E2B, and then both of you pivoted into the same thing, and I'm like, “F**k.”Ivan [00:04:12]: You invested, you invested in Daytona. You invested in Daytona. But you were the first If we had not got your check, we wouldn't have done it.Swyx [00:04:18]: No way.Ivan [00:04:19]: No, it was like, “We have to get him on board first,” and you were that kicker that we, that got us off the ground.Swyx [00:04:23]: No, because you were putting me on your pitch deck, man. I was like, “Man, this is like a good trip if I don't invest.”Ivan [00:04:29]: That's because it was your quote. It's like we.Swyx [00:04:30]: Yeah. It's the end of localhost.Ivan [00:04:31]: Did a bunch of research about end of localhost and who was interested in that,.Swyx [00:04:34]: No, that's like, I put, I wrote that blog post, and every single company in that field reached out to me, and then every VC who was receiving those pitches then also had to call me and, talk it, talk through it with me.Ivan [00:04:47]: It's finally happening though.Swyx [00:04:48]: It was really super interesting.Ivan [00:04:48]: It's finally happening.Swyx [00:04:49]: It's finally happening.Ivan [00:04:49]: Yeah, it's finally.Swyx [00:04:49]: It's finally happening, with maybe sort of non-human users. Yeah, so what is Daytona today? Let's get like a quick description. I'm wearing the shirt.What Daytona Is Today: Composable Computers for AI AgentsIvan [00:04:58]: You're wearing the shirt. Yes,.Swyx [00:04:59]: It says, I think your branding is very good. Like, it's very consistent. It runs AI code. Like, it cannot be simpler.Ivan [00:05:05]: Exactly, but we're gonna probably have to change that.Swyx [00:05:07]: Oh, s**t.Ivan [00:05:07]: It's also a subset of what we do. Unfortunately, we really love this, Run AI Code is super simple. People interpret it different ways. I think we've given out 5,000, 6,000 of these shirts. People wear them with pride because it doesn't really market about us.Swyx [00:05:21]: Yeah, Daytona's on the back.Ivan [00:05:22]: It markets the back. It markets to the person itself, so I think we did a really good job on that one. But it is also a subset of what we do, because people, when they think about Run AI Code, they just think about these small, let's call it isolates, code execution boxes that, you send some code, you get an output. Whereas what Daytona is today is essentially composable computers for AI agents. It is, the market calls them sandboxes which can be misleading.Swyx [00:05:44]: All these things. All these things on.Ivan [00:05:45]: Yeah, exactly, ‘cause it can be misleading ‘cause people usually think about sandboxes as a demo or a test environment versus a production-grade environment. But what Daytona does, if you think of the laptop that you have in front of you or the computer that's over there, or, my wife is an architect, so she has like a Windows with a 3D graphics card inside to do 3D rendering. Like, as humans, we have different computers or different compositions of computers. And our belief is strongly that agents today and going forward will need all these different compositions of computers to do different types of tasks. And so we offer that basically through an API.Swyx [00:06:19]: Yeah, to give people - I'm trying to sort of front-load all the aha moments or the wow moments so that people can, stay engaged and click like and subscribe. the market is exploding, right? Like, you have been reporting 74% month-on-month growth, and it also, it's just been growing for a while. Like, it's been going like this. And every single - It's not just you guys. It's every single.Ivan [00:06:41]: Everyone, yeah.Swyx [00:06:42]: Sort of, compute provider. I don't know if you agree with me saying compute provider or not.Ivan [00:06:48]: It's fine.Swyx [00:06:48]: Yeah. So like organically PLG-driven growth, but also enterprise is doing super well, I think I wanna rewind to January of last year when you did the pivot. Like, so you obviously called this market early, and you were positioned for it, and you are now one of the market leaders. But what was the insight that made you do the pivot?The Pivot: From Human Dev Environments to Agent SandboxesIvan [00:07:06]: The insight that made us do this pivot is the quarter before that, so end of 2024, when we had - Basically, we did a demo with - I don't I think we discussed this as well, Devin was not public. You actually gave me access to Devin at that time. So Devin.Swyx [00:07:25]: I did?Ivan [00:07:26]: Yeah, you gave me access.Swyx [00:07:26]: I don't think I was supposed.Ivan [00:07:27]: Yeah, exactly.Swyx [00:07:28]: Yeah, I.Ivan [00:07:28]: So it doesn't matter. You.Swyx [00:07:29]: Yeah. I gave like three friends access.Ivan [00:07:31]: Yeah, or it was a call and you showed it to me. It doesn't matter. but OpenDevin was available, which is now called OpenHands. And so we're like, “Oh, this seems to be a thing. This is not public. Let's take our for human automation of dev environments and take, OpenDevin and launch that as a SaaS.” And we did that. Not very many people signed up and used it, but a lot of people reached out that were building agents, and they were like, “Hey, my agent needs a compute sandbox runtime,” whatever you wanna call it. I forgot what it was called at that point. And then we were like, “Oh, amazing. This is a new market. Here is our infrastructure. Here's our product, and go.” And what we found really fast, soon, was that people did not like what we had built. It didn't work. And I remember talking to people at the beginning when we're doing this, the sandbox we're building for agents. People were like, “Oh, why is it different? It's the same thing. We have like EC2, we have VMs, we have all these things.” But we saw that everyone we gave it to, it was like 20, 30 people, they all said, “No.” Like, “This is not what we need. This sort of breaks.” And basically, me and my co-founder not knowing a lot about - ‘cause we're infra people. We're not AI people. So I basically took it upon myself to like watch every single podcast that exists, including all of, all of these and all that, and sort of get up to date, read all the blogs, like get, understand what's going on.Swyx [00:08:45]: Do you wanna shout out who else was useful, just in case people are also looking.Ivan [00:08:49]: Generally we -, I looked at There's a few of podcast, different segments and different types. So there's you guys, No Priors, Bill Gurley's was great while.Swyx [00:09:04]: VG2, yeah.Ivan [00:09:05]: Yeah, while it was around. So there's a few. 20VC is interesting from a different dynamic, and some are different dynamic. But there was, also Red Points.Swyx [00:09:14]: We're not really about the compute market.Ivan [00:09:15]: It was also already - Sorry?Swyx [00:09:16]: You're, you want - You're looking at the agent infra market.Ivan [00:09:19]: I was looking at the agent market and the AI market in general and sort of understanding who are the players, what the perception, and how that goes. And like obviously you complement this with like going to conferences, going to events, going to meetups, reading white papers, like doing all the things that you have to do to understand what's happening. And so when we figured, when we sort of had an idea of what we had to build, literally over the New Year's Eve, literally on New Year's Eve, I half vibe coded the first MVP, first minimal viable product of what Daytona is today. And I went to sleep at like 3:00 AM or something like that. I was doing - I just put my like baby daughter and wife to sleep and, Happy New Year's, and go back to just, doing this. And I sent it to my co-founder, my CTO, and he saw it in the morning. He's like, “This is absolute garbage.” “Do not show this to anybody at all, but the idea is good.” And so he took two weeks, and he rebuilt it.Swyx [00:10:09]: Did it like look like that? Listen, I - It was rough idea.Ivan [00:10:12]: Oh, not even, not even close. Like it was it was way worse. But it was like a very - It was a simplistic view of what it should be. Like, it worked, but it was not ideal. And so he went, we went down the whole, which is his job as CTO, to go, and he came back with this version. We then called all the people that had said like, “This is garbage,” a quarter ago. And we set up these calls, and we gave it to - We just demoed it to everyone. And all the calls went long, every single one. They were 15-minute calls, and they all went to like 25, 30 minutes or whatnot. And everyone said, “We need, we want access.” There was no login, just an API key, ‘cause it was just a beta or an alpha. And they said, “Oh, we want access.” And we're like, “Sure, yeah. Okay, thank you very much.” But after like the next day, if we'd not send it, every single one, like every call that we did, everyone came back, “Where is my API key?” Like everyone wanted it. We're like, “S**t.” Like this is it. Like I've never felt So one, the understanding to your point was like most people thought it was the same infrastructure for humans and agents. We understood a quarter ago it's not. We just didn't know what was the right primitive. And then when we came, and we can talk about what that is, and we gave it to these people, I've never seen, I've never experienced - I've done multiple companies in my life. I've never experienced this, that people literally call you if you do not give them access. Like they want access right now. And so it's like, okay, they don't want this. the thing that they want doesn't seem to exist, or they have not found it, and they really want what we want. And then when we understood that we're onto something, and then when you think about the size of the market, like the market for human engineers and enterprise is a very large market, so think GitLab or whatnot. But the market for every single agent that will exist ever in the future is just like, what is that market? How big is that? And we're like, “We are all in on this.” And so that is where we made sort of the cut between the old product and the new one.Bare Metal, Stateful Sandboxes, and the Lambda + EC2 ModelSwyx [00:12:02]: Yeah. But it wasn't composable at the time?Ivan [00:12:05]: It was very - It was basically just a Linux box that you could change, that you could define number of CPUs, disk, and RAM. Like that is what you could do, but you couldn't have multiple operating systems, you couldn't resize it on the fly, you couldn't add a GPU, you couldn't do like all the things. It was just the, just the first sort of variation of that, yeah.Swyx [00:12:22]: Was it bare metal from the start?Ivan [00:12:24]: It was bare metal from the start. And so the interesting thing that we thought about right away, so our.Swyx [00:12:29]: Which, give people the background, what is the normal path?Ivan [00:12:32]: Yeah, so, basically most providers run this on top of VMs. And also.Swyx [00:12:37]: Firecracker.Ivan [00:12:38]: Yeah, they run on Firecracker and VM. And so we also fire - We can get - We have multiple isolation layers and we can do that. But the common way to do it is that they, one, that the state of the machine, or the hard disk is not part of the sandbox itself. And the other thing is they're not meant to last forever. So most of them are preemptible, like they can There's a time that they can live. And so our thought was when we were going into this is, agents will be like humans in the sense of you don't want your laptop to be shut down until you're done with work. Like, and you want to close the lid and open the lid, it's the same state. So you - Agents would want that, like the pause and come back. They want those two things. But also agents really want speed, right? Can they get it? So when we thought about it's like we need something insanely fast, how to make it fast, how to make it long-running, and stateful. And so those two things, it's like combining a Lambda and an EC2, right? Those two things together. And so we didn't have an idea how others did it, ‘cause we didn't know too that there was a market around this. It was more like, okay, this is what we need, what they need. And we looked at Kubernetes, it wasn't wasn't good enough for that. We looked at Nomad, it didn't enable that. And so our history in rewriting our own scheduler at CodeAnywhere is basically what my CTO came up with. Like, he's like, “Oh, the learnings from there,” and he brought it. And the funny thing is, our third co-founder, when he saw it, he's like, “Dude, what is this? This is like 2008.” Like, we went back in time, and he's like, “Exactly.” And so the reason why Daytona is like super fast, and you see this on benchmarks, is we essentially, we run on bare metal. We have our own scheduler, we use the underlying, disk, CPU, and RAM of the underlying machine, which means your IOPS are insanely fast because there's no, there's no network between an EBS or something like that. But also the snapshot, the point in time, the templates, are also preloaded on the bare metal machines. So when you fire off a sandbox from a template or a snapshot, you're essentially directed to the bare metal machine where that snapshot is based on that NVMe drive, and then it literally just turns on that machine, and it's local. There's no network latency, anything on there. And so that is sort of the specificities that we, when we're thinking from first principles, what a computer would look like for an agent, that is what we came up with, and that's what we created.Benchmarks, 60ms Startup, and 50,000 SandboxesSwyx [00:15:02]: Yeah. I should maybe, I don't know if you endorse this, but there's someone that does compute SDK, you guys do very well on there, with like the TTI, right? I. is this a, is this a is this a relevant benchmark for you guys? I don't know.Ivan [00:15:16]: I don't know, and it changes every day. So today RKL is.Swyx [00:15:18]: I don't know what RKL is. Never heard of it.Ivan [00:15:20]: Yeah. RK, yeah, so it is there.Swyx [00:15:22]: You are, at least a third of the next tier of performance, and then, there's a lot of other better-known names that are very slow to start.Ivan [00:15:31]: Yeah. We've been the number one by far for a long time, and now there's different, there's different definitions also of sandboxes, different isolation patterns, different other things. So RKL runs it literally on the S3, the data, so it's very different, and they spin up a sandbox, spin up a container for that, so it's a different type of thing. So the definition of a sandbox is something that we can all, we all need to get along with. But yeah, we're insanely fast on getting these things, up and running. And so you can see even there that it's a zero point 0.10 to 0.11, so.Swyx [00:16:03]: Close enough. Yeah. what else do you need, right?Ivan [00:16:05]: Yeah. So the benchmarks itself, so, in this, in I don't think the benchmarks equate to market ownership or revenue or anything like that. and I've seen this with multiple benchmarks, not just in sandboxes, but in general benchmarks around.Swyx [00:16:20]: It's table stakes. It's just like.Ivan [00:16:21]: Exactly. But it doesn't hurt.Swyx [00:16:22]: Just roughly check.Ivan [00:16:22]: Like you definitely have to be up there and you have to be competing so that people know that, oh, this is definitely one of the top. Because this is only one dimension of what customers look for. There's other things like how many can you spin up consecutively? There's a feature set, there's support, there's like all different things that people look at, but you definitely have to be there, on the benchmarks.Swyx [00:16:40]: How many people do people spin up consecutively?Ivan [00:16:43]: So we have.Swyx [00:16:43]: Or concurrently, is the Concurrency, right?Ivan [00:16:45]: There's three metrics that we look at. And so one is like time to spin up one, and so our time to spin up one is 60 milliseconds with network latency. So request, spin up, reply, 60, the whole thing, 60 milliseconds. That is one. But if you wanna spin up 50,000 at once, we are now at about 75 seconds. So it takes about 75 seconds to spin up concurrently 50,000. Some others, there's public data around this, like take 2,000 seconds, which is 30 minutes. Like there's different variations of that. And then there is the so it is speed of one, speed of like multiple, and then how many can you consistently have up and running. And so we basically have right now no limit to how much we can add because we basically own our own metal. But the biggest customer of ours does like about 850,000 every single day is sort of where they're, where they're just shy of a million every single day that they're running, we do have a request for half a million concurrent, which is literally half a million CPUs somewhere running. So that's an interesting.Swyx [00:17:44]: They pay by like vCPU seconds.Ivan [00:17:47]: By seconds, yeah.Swyx [00:17:47]: Or whatever. Yeah. Okay, and so and then, and the other thing is, the sleeping and the resuming, ‘cause it's all the stateful resumption of all these things, how, what kind of workload are people putting through this, right? Like how is it Do we measure by gigabytes in memory, gigabytes in storage? I don't In like network attached storage. I, what are the costly ones of, out of all these features?Workload Economics: CPU, RAM, Network, and StorageIvan [00:18:15]: The most expensive thing are CPU.Swyx [00:18:18]: Okay. Yeah, of course.Ivan [00:18:18]: The second one, yeah Then it's RAM, then it's disk. We actually don't charge.Swyx [00:18:22]: Which is snapshotting, right?Ivan [00:18:23]: No, it's actually the, snapshotting's part of it, but basically the size of your hard disk, of your machine. So do you have 10 gigabytes, do you have 20, do you have 50, do you have whatever? And then the transference of that. Right now, currently we don't charge for, network at all at Polychron.Swyx [00:18:37]: Oh, you gotta, yeah, you gotta fix.Ivan [00:18:38]: Yeah. It is very much a it's a larger and larger part of our bill, so we're working around, that part there. Obviously, that is the least, expensive, so the hard disk is the least expensive, so it's basically CPU, RAM, for us network, ‘cause we don't charge the customer, and then hard disk, is how it's split up. But there's also different types of workloads, so we basically split it up into two types of workloads in Daytona. One is what we call background agents or long-running agents. and the other is, basically RLs and evals, which I put sort of together. And so they have very different patterns of usage, and if you look at the usage of a background And I'll just name names of companies, not specifically.Background Agents vs. RL/Evals: Two Usage ShapesSwyx [00:19:21]: Yeah, open, all hands.Ivan [00:19:23]: Yeah. So like a background agent's a Cognition, a Lovable, a like all these things are Harvey. These are all long-running, background agents. And so if you look at their usage patterns, their usage patterns are similar to human, which is like follow the sun. Basically, the usage patterns of that is like noon is probably the highest, and the midnight is the lowest, and then weekends are lower. weekday is higher.Swyx [00:19:42]: Yeah, that's a fun question. How global is it? Is it very US-centric or?Ivan [00:19:46]: The US is a large part, but we have currently, we have Asia, Europe, and the US regions.Swyx [00:19:52]: So it's quite global.Ivan [00:19:53]: Yeah, it's quite global. We have it all over. It's interesting that our I talked to you a bit about this. Our number one city by user.Swyx [00:20:01]: Hmm.Ivan [00:20:02]: Is Singapore.Swyx [00:20:04]: Oh, wow. Amazing.Ivan [00:20:05]: Which is an interesting one, right? Not by revenue, just by just like by individual head count.Swyx [00:20:09]: Really?Ivan [00:20:09]: Just like an interesting thing.Swyx [00:20:10]: Singapore is, Singapore is weirdly high in the adoption charts of AI for the population. It's like an, seven, eight million population. And it's like keeps showing up.Ivan [00:20:20]: No, it's quite interesting. We were quite shocked, and I was like, “Oh, this is interesting.” And also one that's up there.Swyx [00:20:24]: There's a reason I'm doing AI using Singapore. it's because I'm from there.Ivan [00:20:27]: We're there. We're gonna, we're gonna be there as well. and it's interesting that Japan is in the top or like Tokyo's in the top, which is in all the tech cycles it has never been. It has never been, so it's quite interesting that they're.Swyx [00:20:39]: I think the Japanese just love AI. Yeah. It's that, and then it's Brazil. That's it.Ivan [00:20:44]: Brazil has always been in.Swyx [00:20:45]: I think.Ivan [00:20:46]: Even when I look, if you look at like GitHub's data and ask historically with CodeAnywhere, it was always like US, Western Europe, and then you'd have like India, Brazil, China, like that would be there. But like Singapore was not in, specifically Japan was never in sort of that top, that top.Swyx [00:21:01]: Yeah. Weird pockets.Ivan [00:21:01]: Weird. Yeah, so it's very global.Swyx [00:21:02]: Okay, so actually that, but that's helps you to distribute your load through, all time?Ivan [00:21:08]: The interesting thing is like we have those kind of loads, but if you look at the researcher loads, they're quite different. So what they are is like if you give them concurrency of 10,000 or 50,000 or 100,000 CPUs at ARMb, when they fire off a run, it's just 100%. And then it just runs, and then it stops. So it's very, the usage pattern is squares basically, right? And it's also not follow the sun, because people will fire it off at midnight before they go to sleep but then wake up and so it's very unpredictable, so you don't know where that is. So the shapes of the usage are quite different than we have had before. And also what's interesting is when it's sort of a follow the sun, even if you have a high growth company, you can sort of predict your usage patterns and have enough capacity for that, because it's sort of, it grows in a, in a way you can project. When you have companies doing sort of like evals and RL, they're super spiky. So they're gonna come in, it's like, “We're gonna use nothing, then can we have 100,000?” Right? And then go back down. And then 100,000, go back down. So it's very different, right? And.Swyx [00:22:09]: Do you want to lock them into commits so.Ivan [00:22:11]: Yeah, we do.Swyx [00:22:12]: Yeah, okay.Ivan [00:22:12]: We so we have to lock them into some sort of commits to have that capacity, because we have to have, basically we have to have the capacity for peak. Right? And so right now, Daytona's mean utilization is 15%, 1-5.Swyx [00:22:25]: Oh my God.Ivan [00:22:26]: So it's very low.Swyx [00:22:27]: Because it's very spiky.Ivan [00:22:27]: It's very spiky, but we get up to 90%. so we have these things. And so what we're, what we're looking at right now as a company is similar to Cloudflare where you can like geo move things around, but that works really well for basically the background agent where it's follow the sun. But this, it's not. Like it's a very different shape. Obviously with scale you figure these things out, but that's an interesting new problem that we have, as a compute provider in the agent space. And when we were doing the conference recently, and so we talked to like Nikita from Neon and.Swyx [00:22:57]: I should bring it up.Ivan [00:22:58]: Parag from Parallel and whatnot, everyone has the same problem. Whereas the usage is super spiky, and this is something that has not happened before, that you have these types of like it was always, it the amplitudes were not this high, right? So it's quite interesting use case and problem solve.Compute Conference and Spiky Agent InfrastructureSwyx [00:23:12]: Yeah, I don't know if we're gonna bring this up again, but let's just talk about the conference, you had like 1,000 something people at the Warriors game, at the Sorry, where is it? What's.Ivan [00:23:22]: Chase Center.Swyx [00:23:23]: Chase Center.Ivan [00:23:23]: Chase Center.Swyx [00:23:24]: I went. It was, it was very impressive. Obviously, you can, how to throw a conference, what did you learn? you put, you pulled together all these impressive names.Ivan [00:23:33]: What I.Swyx [00:23:34]: What were you looking for?Ivan [00:23:35]: My thesis behind the Compute Conference was let's bring together people that are building infrastructure for AI agents. Because when I think of what we're building, it is the agent is the primary user, what are the ergonomics and usage patterns of agents, and so we can do that. And what I found, this was a theory, it wasn't proven, is that we all have these problems, as I touched onto. And I was, as I was talking on stage, it was like we all have the same underlying infra problems, which is this spiky workloads, unpredictable workloads that we've never had before, in human, compute or human infrastructure. And it's, again, it's the same when I was talking to Parag or when I was talking.Swyx [00:24:20]: Lynn. Nikita.Ivan [00:24:21]: Lynn, Nikita. Lynn especially, I was talking to her the other day as well. Like the It is a very interesting type of problem to solve because I can touch on Cloudflare because there's a lot of like talk about that recently as to how they solve that, which is they have a bunch of geos, and basically, as users work in different places, and depending on your tier, they can move you around the geos. And so that how, that's how they get the higher utilization. But you can sort of predict these, and it's If it's something in You'll rarely get a spike that is 10 orders of magnitude. Like you'll get a like let's say one of your customers has some like an exponential curve. What is that to I'm using Cloudflare as an example. 10%, 20%, whatever it is. I don't, I don't have this data, I'm just assessing. It's surely not 10x, right? It's surely not something there. And so how do you go out and solve this problem? And we're all solving this in different ways. So we have.Swyx [00:25:11]: She also has the same thing.Ivan [00:25:12]: Yeah, I know specifically that like Neon had that issue as well. Like how are we solving these spiky loads and things like that ‘cause we talked about it. And so the interesting thing for me to actually internalize was, yes, everyone that's building for agents first is going through this, and we're all solving similar problems, which is quite.Swyx [00:25:28]: Let me let me double-click on this. Okay. So for example, Neon, I happen to know that they're very sort of S3 oriented, right? so they're just like fully bet on S3. And you get to benefit from S3's distribution and infrastructure. So I would imagine that Neon doesn't have to care, whereas Lynn maybe has to care a bit more because obviously she's doing GPU inference. And, for listeners, we did an episode with her, one and a half years ago. And you have to care. But like, right?Ivan [00:25:54]: Parag cares for sure, and Nikita.Swyx [00:25:58]: And Parag is C of, Parallel.Ivan [00:25:59]: Parallel, yeah.Swyx [00:26:00]: Former CTO of Twitter.Ivan [00:26:01]: Twitter, yeah.Swyx [00:26:02]: They are the search.Ivan [00:26:03]: Yeah, they're search, yeah.Swyx [00:26:03]: I You and I know but the listeners don't know.Ivan [00:26:08]: Yeah, we can put it down in the screen, and so ‘cause we, when we were talking.Swyx [00:26:11]: I'll put it up on the, on the screen.Ivan [00:26:12]: Yeah, right.Swyx [00:26:12]: People can look it up if they need.Ivan [00:26:14]: Look it up. And, yes, but they still have CPU and RAM, allocation that you have to have up and running. And so CPU and RAM, you have to allocate that and have that ready. And so there's basically two ways to do it. One is you either over-provision and you can handle the bursts, or two, you basically have, I don't know if this is a term, just-in-time compute, which is like as your load becomes, as your usage comes in, you can fire off requests for VMs or bare metals at other cloud providers and then get them up and running.Swyx [00:26:43]: This is if you go above 100%, right?Ivan [00:26:45]: Yeah, this is.Swyx [00:26:46]: Like your overflow.Ivan [00:26:46]: If your overflow, like spillage or whatever you do.Swyx [00:26:48]: You probably lose money on it, but it doesn't matter, right?Ivan [00:26:50]: It, not Well, you might, you might not That is a more cost-effective way to do it but it's a slower way to do it. Because basically what you have to do is you have to like queue your requests, spin up these just-in-time compute, get it all ready, provision it, and then get your workload there. And so if the time isn't important that much, that's fine, and you can do that. But if your customer, and especially for, let's say, the RL training runs, the reason why a lot of people come to us is because GPUs are more expensive than CPUs, right? So you want your GPU running at, what, 100% the entire time. And so when you're running runs on CPUs, when the when the CPU cycle is like down and spinning up the next one, you want that to be instantaneous so that your GPU doesn't go down, right? And if you then have to like go out and provision machines, you're essentially telling the GPU that it has to wait, and that's incurring our cost. So there's things that you have to try to solve for there.RL Workloads, Declarative Images, and Kubernetes ReplacementSwyx [00:27:43]: Yeah, let's talk about the different workload, right? You said that, what was it? A few months ago, you had zero RL workload and now it's 50%.Ivan [00:27:52]: It will be this one, 50%, yeah.Swyx [00:27:54]: Let's talk about how different it is, right? Like I imagine, for example, a lot less dynamic code generation of like arbitrary code. Like here, it's probably all the same code. You're just doing parallel runs or something, I don't know.Ivan [00:28:05]: Yeah. So you'll have multiple Depends on the like for each run, you'll have a snapshot. And they, for the most part, they actually do use our declarative image builder, which is like, “Oh, we, the agent wants these dependencies, these env vars.”Swyx [00:28:17]: These ones, yeah.Ivan [00:28:18]: Yeah, the declarative image builder, it.Swyx [00:28:20]: Which is a very modal like thing that they.Ivan [00:28:22]: Yeah. And so we build it on the fly and then we propagate that snapshot, and you can spin up as many sandboxes as you want against that snapshot. And then if you have to do changes, the model can, or like it could be also be automated. It's like, “Oh, now for the next run, we need to install these things or remove these things or whatever to get, a task done,” and then it goes off and runs that. So yes, that is something that it seems that they prefer. The number one reason I found, or should I say, let's take a step back. What we are competing against in that environment is essentially managed Kubernetes. So EKS, GKE, whatever. That is what the vast majority run on. And anyone that has tried Daytona versus GKE, EKS is like, “I'm never going back.” That has always been. There's a few reasons. One is the ergonomics. So if you have, if you're using Kubernetes to spin that up, you have to essentially manage the interface interactions with that. Daytona, although as a compute provider, it's more akin to a Twilio and Stripe from a consumption perspective than it is an AWS. Like you have an API, an SDK, it's quite like easy and seamless to get these things up and running, that's one. The other is the speed to which we spin up, which we mentioned earlier, which is much faster, and the scale to which we can go to. We haven't got into features, but an interesting feature is that it's very hard to OOM, or out of memory, our sandboxes, because we can dynamically on the fly.Swyx [00:29:48]: Resize.Ivan [00:29:49]: Resize, which is like impossible on almost any other thing. There are some technologies that enable you to do that, but it's like a very hard thing. And so we actually saw this when, the Terminal Revenge team is, brought us actually. So thank you, Alex and the team, that brought us into this whole space.Swyx [00:30:05]: It's just very rare that, a framework would just say, “Guys, just use Daytona.”Ivan [00:30:11]: Yeah, I think it says it somewhere. Yeah.Swyx [00:30:13]: Yeah. I was like, “What is this?”Ivan [00:30:15]: There's all, there's multiple there, but they also mention a few other places. and so Daytona specifically-We have, the, just jumping on themes here We, I don't know where it says Data Center.Swyx [00:30:27]: I, there.Ivan [00:30:27]: Doesn't matter.Swyx [00:30:28]: There's a very strong recommendation, which is, very unusual. Which is, it's.Ivan [00:30:33]: We do not pay them for this, just.Swyx [00:30:34]: I know, yeah. They just like you.Ivan [00:30:35]: Yeah, they like us. yeah, and also a thing, so, Data Center has multiple isolation sets underneath. The customer doesn't have to know what they are. But basically we have Docker, which is a container, that's hardened with Sysbox. So it's Docker's, isolation that is a security equivalent to a VM, but it's still a container. And that is the default, and they, especially in these training workloads, really like that as an interface to be able to use just a basic Docker container, and we enable Docker and Docker. Which for these RL runs, if you need to do a Docker compose or Kubernetes, you can spin up a K3S inside of these things, which unlocks a huge amount of workloads that you can do that you cannot do on other providers. So just on that part is much more interesting. And so we went that, through that. We showed them that we could do that, and they enjoyed that quite a bit. They being the general venture people.Swyx [00:31:28]: Those people, yeah.Ivan [00:31:29]: And Harbor people.Swyx [00:31:29]: Harbor people, do are they, are they a company yet?Ivan [00:31:33]: As far, I do not know.Customer Pull, Slack Connect, and the Computer Use BetSwyx [00:31:35]: Okay. All right. Yeah. It's like super obvious that like, there's a lot of excitement and success around these things, okay, so yeah, tell us more, right? Like, this is an exploding workload, Harbor adopted you, which helped speed things along. But what are you learning as this new workload comes online?Ivan [00:31:53]: There's a couple things that we learned, which we chat about in the beginning. We, and this has led our story, as we mentioned, we like talked to a lot of customers along the way, and we add more features and more tool sets as we talk to customers. And it's interesting that And I think it's that the ecosystem is so small and/or the models get smarter, where when we see one user come with a request, we know it goes on a roadmap if like three to five customers come with the same request in that week. It's like very bizarre. It happens so many times, which is.Swyx [00:32:27]: Because they're all friends.Ivan [00:32:28]: Sorry?Swyx [00:32:28]: They all, they're all friends. They're all in the same group chat.Ivan [00:32:30]: Yeah, probably, yeah. ‘Cause and they're like, “Oh, can you do this?” And I'm like, “Okay, this is interesting. We'll put it on a feature request.” And then the next one's like, “Oh, can you do this?” “Okay.” It's all the same, right? It's always the same. And so what we try to do, and I personally try to do, I try to be on as many call, quote-unquote “sales calls” I can. I'm in every Slack channel. We literally have about 1,000 Slack Connect channels, something like that. It's an interesting, there's so many interesting things you find out when you have all the Slack channels. You can also see where people, transfer between companies. You see leave Slack channel, enter Slack channel. It's an interesting thing. Also, just I digress, I feel that Slack Connect is literally LinkedIn what it should be. You have a list.Swyx [00:33:08]: LinkedIn charges you to, use your own connections, but Slack doesn't, right? Slack is like, do it for free. It's more lock-in. It's great.Ivan [00:33:15]: Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It's one of the reasons.Swyx [00:33:17]: You're gonna pay Slack for life.Ivan [00:33:18]: Exactly. You're there for life. So that's interesting. And so one of the things, the newer things we were talking about earlier is we made a big bet and put a lot of investment on computer use. that is not seen publicly the light of day. We haven't GA'd that yet, but we have.Swyx [00:33:32]: Is there a thing I can pull up?Ivan [00:33:33]: There is computer use there. It's right up a bit.Swyx [00:33:36]: Oh, yeah. Okay.Ivan [00:33:38]: What we have, what we talked about and what we've seen publicly is there's this theme now about, the human emulator where And Elon from XAI has talked about this publicly, and if you think about the models today, they're actually quite sophisticated and they can do a lot of work, but they still don't have access to all the tools. Like, I'm a strong believer that the most efficient way for an agent to work is essentially headless or through, terminal or whatnot. But if we, if we look at knowledge work in general, there's about 100 million knowledge workers in the US, about a billion in the world, and knowledge workers, and the salaries of them aggregate to 10 trillion in the US 50 trillion worldwide.Swyx [00:34:24]: Wow.Ivan [00:34:25]: Something like that. And if we look at, the five most important sectors of that, so like healthcare and government and financial services and whatnot, that's about 56% of that. So let's say it's about half of that. So in the US it's about 25 trillion, and most of them, most of that work is actually still locked into legacy apps inside of Windows, which is not going anywhere for a very long time. Like, people just won't invest in that. How much of it? our assumption is the following: if, in the RPA market, which is similar market, well, not the same 25% of, these white collar, workers', work is automated. If an agent is more sophisticated, can go through more runs, figure stuff out, let's say it's, 40%, right? And so if you take 40% of that, you get to essentially, $10 trillion a year.Swyx [00:35:17]: That's a TAM.Ivan [00:35:18]: That is a that is a TAM. So that's the TAM of the models, right? That's not our, essentially ours. But you get to that size, and to be able to do that, you essentially have to give agents these computers with the legacy. So computer use, either Mac or Windows or Linux. Linux we also obviously have and others have. But Windows specifically is something very new, and the only option right now is an EC2 with, Windows or on Azure. Both of them take anywhere from three to five minutes to spin up. We've created an actual sandbox, so it's a second instead of milliseconds, but you have, point in time snapshots, you have, forking, you have all the things that you have from a sandbox, but essentially enables you to hopefully unlock all this value. And so that's been our big push and bet, but we've sort of, kept our ear to the ground. What is sort of the next things in the market?RPA Returns: Why Agents Still Need ComputersSwyx [00:36:06]: Yeah, knowledge work, and building, and sort of RPA, the next wave of RPA. I got very excited about RPA kind of during COVID times. The UI path was IPO-ing. And it was, a very hot Isn't it, Eastern European?Ivan [00:36:20]: It is, Romanian.Swyx [00:36:21]: Romanian?Yeah, it might be the only Romanian, big unicorn okay, yeah. This I don't I don't, I don't have like a I think there's, I think there's a stage being set for the resurgence of RPA, ‘cause everyone understands that, yeah, no one wants to deal with these shitty apps and no one's gonna rewrite them. Like, you just have to do, a remote operation and programmatic operation of them.Ivan [00:36:45]: If you wanna unlock it, my own setup was basically the following. So I was doing a board deck recently, last month, whatever, and I'm like, “Okay, let's just, let's just do automated.” So, all our data's in, ClickHouse and PostHog and QuickBooks, where everyone else's is, and I'm basically, connected that all to, my Cloud code, like go off and go Cloud code whatever. Go off and, here's the integrations, go do that. It pulled out the first report, which was great. It connected to Brex and all these things, pulled it, which was great, and then I say, “Okay, now pull out this, and this,” and I kept getting, really well McKinsey-style design reports, but the data said partial data. all the missing data, partial data. Like, it can't access all the things, and I got so frustrated, and so I got, I got, my Mac Mini virtual sandbox with OpenClaw. I gave it its own account in our company, and then I went to all these services and created a read-only account, so literally like an intern in your company. And so I would say, “Now go and do this report,” and it would get the same, or like, “I can't via the MCP or the API or whatever. I can't get all the information.” I'm like, “Go log in.” And it will log into the website, then go in, export the data. It'll export the data and do the thing end to end. So even for things that have today APIs, not all of it is exposed, and I to get value, I get immense value right now, but it has to be a computer usage, unfortunately, and so I spend a bunch of tokens just on that, but I get the job done. And so if even a startup like ours, and using all the hottest tools, still needs a computer agent what hope does, Goldman have to have a headless, right?Swyx [00:38:22]: Yeah, what a - Why isn't Microsoft doing this?Ivan [00:38:27]: I'm pretty sure, Satya had a post yesterday.Swyx [00:38:29]: Oh, okay. I see.Ivan [00:38:29]: Which was like, “Every agent needs a computer.”Swyx [00:38:31]: I see, I see.Ivan [00:38:32]: So they have launched something recently.Swyx [00:38:34]: Yeah, they have Microsoft Power Automate, I'm sure, I'm sure, they're gonna have their version.macOS Sandboxes, Apple Constraints, and the Windows OpportunityIvan [00:38:39]: Version of that, yeah.Swyx [00:38:39]: You're gonna try to do yours, and it - I always know there's always demand for Mac, but I know it's, tricky to host, macOS sandboxes.Ivan [00:38:49]: We will have macOS sandboxes fairly soon. The problem with macOS, OS sandboxes is, I'm deep in this, I don't know how much interesting is.Swyx [00:38:55]: No, it's.Ivan [00:38:56]: MacOS has this problem.Swyx [00:38:57]: It's a licensing thing, right?Ivan [00:38:58]: Licensing thing. So one, you're allowed to run only two parallel VMs per machine, so that's one. Two, you can only license to a different user every 24 hours. So if you come in and theoretically, if I wanna charge you per second and I charge you one second, I have to have it idle for the rest of the day. I can't have anyone else doing that. So the pricing will be different in the sense that I will have to - we would have to charge for 24 hours, and that's not even, that's not even the most difficult thing. But the, thing above that is, from a security perspective, they enable you to do memory snapshot, pause, resume, but only on the same physical drive, physical machine. And so what you can do in, Windows world or Linux world is that I can move in the background, your snapshot from one to the other and manage load, right? Here, if you wanna do that, you essentially have to have your.Swyx [00:39:49]: Yeah, snapshots. Yeah.Ivan [00:39:50]: Your.Swyx [00:39:51]: It's like.Ivan [00:39:51]: Physical machine.Swyx [00:39:52]: You can't break it up.Ivan [00:39:53]: You can't, you can't move things around that, and all of that is, that part is, from a security standpoint, if it is written. Like, I understand the security aspect of that, but it disables you from doing these agentic, like really scalable agentic workloads.Swyx [00:40:08]: You need to do a vibe-coded, clean room implementation on macOS that you can then - That's like Clean OS or something. I don't know.Ivan [00:40:17]: So. We have.Swyx [00:40:18]: ‘cause like Linux was originally like a clean room rewrite of Unix.Ivan [00:40:21]: Okay. Yeah.Swyx [00:40:21]: Or something like that, right? Like same thing to macOS. Someone needs to do it.Ivan [00:40:25]: Someone will do that, and someone will have some long-running agents for a few days to figure this stuff out. But yeah. So definitely we - we're really close to offering something ‘cause people do want it, but the pricing will be different, and the feature set will be sort of stringent.Swyx [00:40:38]: Yeah, nobody's gonna use this. like, the labs, the labs will because they want to automate macOS.Ivan [00:40:42]: They have to do RL. They have to do RL again. But even if you The - So the point is with the RL part, if you, if you do RL on macOS, then the next iteration of the model comes out, it will be able to use these tools significantly. Then you actually need to run those, that somewhere. So you're gonna have to have that, later on. And from, if anyone at Apple is listening, I very much feel that they are shooting themselves in the foot of the scale of the revenue of compute or licensing they could get if they would just enable a concurrency model similar to what you can get on a Windows and a, and Linux.Swyx [00:41:17]: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure they've heard this before. They just don't care. Yeah, it's And maybe they will change their mind with the new CEO.Ivan [00:41:24]: Yeah. We'll see.Swyx [00:41:25]: We'll see.Ivan [00:41:25]: High hopes.Swyx [00:41:26]: High hopes.Ivan [00:41:26]: High hopes.Swyx [00:41:27]: Okay. But I, it's very clear the market opportunity is huge in Windows, and you can go for a long time on just Windows, but your customers are gonna want both. and I think, it is interesting to me that, this is the sort of God application of agents, right? Like, I don't It was - How big was OpenClaw for you guys? Like, was it, was there, a significant bump.OpenClaw, Agent Labs, and the B2B2C Sandbox MarketIvan [00:41:54]: Not for us because we.Swyx [00:41:54]: Because you already.Ivan [00:41:55]: We're kind of positioned differently. Whereas although it's completely PLG and we have individual developers that use it, most of the users that use Daytona are sort of a B2B2C. Sort of it's either B2B or B2B2C. So, in the researcher world, it's B2B, so you're selling to, labs and neo labs and things like that. But on the long-running agents, it's mostly, from a scale revenue perspective, it's mostly B2B2C, where you have a app layer agent that uses you at a big scale.Swyx [00:42:26]: Like a Manus. Yeah.Ivan [00:42:28]: Like a Manus Lovable type of thing.Swyx [00:42:31]: Yeah. I think that's the question of, well how, um-Uh, yeah, B2B to C is basically to me what I've been calling an agent lab, which is kind of like you're not in a model lab, but you're making a very good wrapper that is a platform that other people can sign up so they don't have to code those things. Yeah, it sound, it sounds like a much better market than the direct OpenClaw market.Ivan [00:42:56]: I've like - We I've done multiple things. So the CodeAnywhere's part of our career path R in the calendar, was very much an end user developer product. And so that is great. It You can get a lot of developer love, and I feel that we do as a company have a bunch of developer love. But it's a different type, where it's people building these things. Again, it's more akin to a Twilio because you don't really run - As a person, you wouldn't run Twilio. I don't know how many people remember. It was like ask your developer billboard and whatnot. And people really love Twilio, but they only used it inside of like, “Oh, I'm building this app or service for thing.” And so we're very much directly to that. And you also know that I used to work for a competitor for Twilio, so it's kind of ingrained, in my DNA.Swyx [00:43:35]: People don't know InfoBip is that big.Ivan [00:43:38]: Yeah, it's.Swyx [00:43:39]: Because.Ivan [00:43:40]: It's a billion euro.Swyx [00:43:40]: They're all American. They're like, “Whatever's in Europe doesn't matter to me.” But like it's the, it's the same size or bigger? Same size?Ivan [00:43:46]: It's about half the size.Swyx [00:43:47]: Half the size?Ivan [00:43:48]: Yeah, about half the size.Swyx [00:43:48]: It's like, yeah.Ivan [00:43:48]: Still huge. Multiple billions a year. Yes.Swyx [00:43:51]: That's crazy.Ivan [00:43:51]: Exactly, and so that - These are like really interesting and large revenue-generating, very sticky businesses. Whereas when you're selling to the - When your focus is the end developer, it is a very hard sell because they're very price sensitive, very price conscious, very around that. And there's very It's very hard to scale. Your cap is the number of people that are willing to spin up - First of all, wanna spin that up, and then spin up multiple of these. Whereas if you're in the enterprise one, like we know everyone's talking about like how many tokens they're spending, I'm spending. Like a lot of companies today are like, “If this is our company, spend as much as you can.” Like basically that is where we're going. And so if you think about that paradigm, where you're selling to companies that say, “Spend as much as you can to generate, productivity,” versus, “Oh, I'm a single person. I have this much budget, and I'm doing this thing because it's fun or it's helping me out or whatever.” Like it is a different, it's a different go-to-market, I think, strategy.MCP, CLIs, and Sandboxes as the Agent RuntimeSwyx [00:44:50]: Yeah, there's a lot of discussion. I'm just kind of going through like the mental list of things that are in your favor, which is, for example, MCP versus CLI. Like obviously you want CLI. It's been very good for you. I feel like it's maybe a drop in the bucket or maybe it's huge. I'm just checking whether it's like these are big trends.Ivan [00:45:10]: Those things you - work well in our favor, to your point just because every.Swyx [00:45:13]: They're kind of drop in the bucket, right?Ivan [00:45:15]: I think it's like sort of all the things come together. And so there's so many things that impact that. To your point, like OpenClaw wasn't huge for us, but like having the agent SDK, from Anthropic, so or Cloud Claude Code was very interesting. The reason why it was interesting is that a lot of, let's call them app I don't know what to call them, app layer agent companies, essentially they are like, “Oh, I can create this new app, this new agent. All I need, I just use Claude Code, and I throw it into a sandbox, and then I have my interface to the human to that.” And so that enabled so many more companies to actually offer this, and then they would pull on sandbox. So that was, that was interesting. And to your point, like MCP, versus the CLI, the MCP is an interface against an API, whereas the CLI is like you can actually go do things. Like this is it. The difference between integrations and actually running scripts or data or analysis against a thing. So being able to use a CLI very well enables the agent to do more things, and it's because that people will invoke a sandbox, they'll run it in the CLI, and but it'll do anal-analysis on that data and then give you an actual result versus just, pulling data from an API source.Swyx [00:46:29]: Yeah, it's a layer of indirection basically, it's the same thing as agentic search versus RAG, which where you're.Ivan [00:46:34]: Exactly, yeah.Swyx [00:46:34]: Just like you just win whenever people put more agents into their workflow. And so like it doesn't really matter, but I'm just kinda teasing out like what else have people heard about that like it's sort of, “Oh yeah, this is another sandbox use case. Oh yeah, that's another one.” Am I, am I missing any big ones?Ivan [00:46:51]: The thing, the thing that people, which is the computer use stuff, which I think is probably the most interesting one, is, and to your point, we've talked to so many people over the last year. It's like, “Oh, like why do you need a sandbox? Why do you need this? Why this?” And to your point, it's like, “Oh, I need sandbox for this. I need sandbox for that. I need sandbox-” It's like, “Oh, I need it for every single thing.” And so basically what I, what I - and it sounds like a broken record, it's like you use a laptop every single day, right? And you are n of one. It's just you. But now imagine how And by the way, the laptop, the computer PC market, the PC market is about equal to the cloud market in total. So it's about 150, 180 billion a year. Something like that. It's about roughly the three cloud hyperscalers is about equal to like Apple, HP, Lenovo, whatever, It's a little bit less, but it's sort of like that. And now imagine And that's just like, so how big is the addressable market? What, how many people are there in the world now? What's the last data?Swyx [00:47:45]: Let's call it eight billion.Ivan [00:47:46]: Eight billion. And so let's say you can have two computer, like you have one personal and one business, whatever. Like so it's double that, right? and so that's 16 billion, right? How many agents are gonna be running in two years, in 10 years, in 100 years? Like And for every single task, they will need one of these. And so how big is that? That market is essentially quote unquote “infinite”. You will get to the point, and Dylan Patel was at the conference talking about, from SemiAnalysis, that talks usually about GPUs, was also talking about how CPUs will now be a bottleneck because it will be the constraint. You won't be able to grow, or we won't be able to have enough of these because there won't be enough CPUs to basically do.Swyx [00:48:23]: Yeah. Well, I actually had a really good podcast with Doug Oliphant, who, which was his president at SemiAnalysis, where they've basically been like, yeah, it's been a GPU shortage first, but then it's cascaded down to memory and now to CPUs.Ivan [00:48:35]: CPU, yeah.Swyx [00:48:35]: It-What's next? So networking. So, networking actually has been in shortage for a while if you're looking at, just GPU networking. But, yeah, it's really crazy the amount of computer use that's going on, yeah, cool. I, other questions are, just the one very big part is the open sourceness which you didn't have to do, your competitors don't do, like it's not, a lot of people are worried about keeping their projects open source because some competitor can just slot fork it. I don't know if there's any reflections on just being an open source company.Open Source, Trust, and Enterprise ProcurementIvan [00:49:15]: Yeah. There's a bunch. So we the original product that we did was open source.Swyx [00:49:19]: Yeah. CodeAnywhere.Ivan [00:49:20]: So doing that was actually very good for us. There's basically a saying of, What's the saying? Like, companies that are, that are doing really well, measure themselves against, free cashflow, that are kinda okay, it's EBITDA, then, it's, it goes all the way down.Swyx [00:49:36]: The worst is like GitHub stars.Ivan [00:49:37]: GitHub stars. GitHub stars are the worst, yeah. So you go all the way down to GitHub stars. And so our original one was GitHub stars. That's what we talked about, we're at the point we're talking about revenue, so we're we've gone up the stack on that. And so we started.Swyx [00:49:47]: No, profit.Ivan [00:49:48]: Yeah. We haven't, we're, we'll get there. We'll get there. But basically at that point we did stars and GitHub and it was useful, and the original variation that we did, it we split the core into its own repo and it was Apache 2.0, so very, permissive. And then we basically would bundl

Take the 2026 AI Engineering Survey and get >$2k in credits and AIE WF tickets!This was recorded before Railway suffered a major GCP outage on May 19, despite being a multi-AZ, multi-zone mesh ring, with HA fiber interconnects between their Metal GCP AWS, because workload discoverability was unintentionally still tied to GCP. All has been resolved with a post-mortem.Railway did not start as an AI infrastructure company.It was founded in 2020 years before agents became the default way people thought about deploying software. Jake Cooper, formerly at Bloomberg and Uber, started Railway with a simple obsession: the activation energy to ship something to production should be near zero. Push code, get a URL, iterate. No Docker files, no Kubernetes manifests, no Ansible scripts stacked on Ansible scripts.For years, this was a slow grind. Railway spent its first 18 months hand-acquiring its first 100 users with Jake personally greeting every Discord signup on a second monitor.Today, Railway has raised $124m and is growing very fast. A 35-person team supports 3 million users, adding roughly 100,000 signups a week. Their bare metal data centers have a 3-month payback period vs. renting in the cloud, with 70% margins funding aggressive cloud bursting when needed. The servers they own have actually appreciated in value as RAM prices have climbed basically meaning the value of their hardware now exceeds the capital they've raised.From rebuilding Railway's network overlay over a weekend to moving the vast majority of workloads onto its own bare metal data centers, Jake Cooper is trying to build a new cloud for an agent-native world. In this episode, Railway's founder and “conductor” joins swyx and Alessio to unpack why the next era of software infrastructure is not just “Heroku but newer,” what agents need that humans did not, and why the old deployment loop of Git, PRs, CI/CD, and static cloud resources may be heading for a rewrite.We go deep on Railway's infrastructure stack: own-metal data centers, three-month cloud payback periods, cloud bursting, data center debt, Railpack, Nixpacks, Temporal, feature flags, Central Station, content-addressable filesystems, agent-safe production forks, and why the CLI may become more important than the canvas in an agent world. Jake also shares the founder journey behind Railway, how the company survived losing $500K/month, why it now serves millions of users with only 35 people, and why he believes the pull request is dying.We discuss:* How Railway went from a slow six-year grind to adding 100,000 users a week* How Railway thinks about agents as the next dominant software species* Why agents need version control, observability, compute, storage, and orchestration at 1000x scale* The economics of Railway's own-metal data centers and three-month payback* How Railway uses cloud bursting while scaling its own infrastructure* Why data center debt can be a better tool than venture debt for infra startups* Central Station, Railway's internal system for clustering customer feedback and incidents* Why responsible disclosure and over-communication matter for platforms* Why feature flags, progressive rollouts, and shadow traffic are essential for agents* Temporal's strengths, pain points, and why workflows matter for agents* Railpack, Nixpacks, Nix, and lazy-loaded content-addressable filesystems* Why “cattle, not pets” may change if you can clone the pets* Why Railway is building a new cloud from scratch instead of copying hyperscalers* The solo founder path, focus, writing, and how Jake thinks about company buildingRailway:* Website: https://railway.com/* X: https://x.com/RailwayJake Cooper:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejakecooper/* X: https://x.com/JustJakeTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction: What Is Railway?00:02:07 Jake's Path to Railway00:06:13 Railway's Six-Year Growth Story00:08:52 Rebuilding the Business After the Free Tier00:11:17 Agents as the Next Software Platform00:13:29 Railway's Infrastructure Philosophy00:15:42 Bare Metal, Cloud Economics, and the Compute Crunch00:17:22 Cloud Bursting and Five-Cloud Networking00:20:20 Data Center Debt and Infra Financing00:23:31 Data Centers in Space00:25:24 What Agents Need From Infrastructure00:28:24 CLIs, Canvas, and Agent-Native UX00:35:15 Central Station, Incidents, and Responsible Disclosure00:40:30 Safe Rollouts, SRE Agents, and Production Forks00:45:00 AI SRE, Specs, Code, and Tests00:48:24 Self-Replicating Infrastructure and the New Serverless00:53:18 Heroku, Temporal, and Workflow Engines01:04:07 Railpack, Nixpacks, and Lazy-Loaded Filesystems01:06:01 Coding Agents, Token Spend, and Roadmap Acceleration01:10:56 The Pull Request Is Dying01:12:28 Feature Flags and the Agent-Era SDLC01:16:15 Cattle, Pets, and Cloning Machines01:19:29 Solo Founder Lessons01:24:12 Focus, GPUs, and Building a New Cloud01:28:20 Closing ThoughtsTranscriptAlessio [00:00:00]: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space Podcast. This is Alessio, founder of Kernel Labs, and I'm joined by Swyx, editor of Latent Space.Swyx [00:00:10]: Hey, hey, hey. Today we're in the studio with Jake Cooper of Railway.Alessio [00:00:14]: Conductor of Railway.Swyx [00:00:15]: Conductor at Railway. Yeah.Alessio [00:00:16]: Choo-choo.Swyx [00:00:17]: Do you actually have that anywhere, like on your business card?Jake [00:00:20]: We call some of our volunteer moderators conductors. I don't have a business card. We're not that big yet. At some point I will. I got handed a nice business card from the Supermicro folks, and I was like, “Damn, this is pretty official.”Swyx [00:00:30]: Business cards are coming back.Jake [00:00:32]: They're cool. They're hip. The conductor thing is good. We're trying to figure out what we want to call each other internally. Some people think it's super cringe and say, “You don't need a name for people internally.” Some people want to call each other something. We still don't have a really good one.Jake [00:00:55]: We've got New Railcrews, Trainiacs. Nothing has stuck yet.Swyx [00:01:00]: I like Trainiac. Trainiac sounds good. Railwayians. For those who don't know, what is Railway? Let's give people a crisp definition up front.Jake [00:01:09]: Railway is the easiest way to ship anything. You go to the canvas, or you talk with Claude, and you say, “Deploy a Postgres instance, deploy my GitHub repository, run this code,” and you're off to the races.Swyx [00:01:22]: You've got a nice animation on the landing page.Jake [00:01:24]: Thank you. None of my work, by the way. They don't let me touch the design stuff anymore.Jake [00:01:25]: We want to make it trivially easy not just to deploy things, but to evolve applications over time. Most tooling right now stacks entropy on top of entropy: Docker, Kubernetes, Ansible scripts, and all these other things. If we can version all of your software and keep track of all the changes, then we can make it trivial to clone environments, fork into a parallel universe, get copies of production data, get copies of any services, make changes, validate them, and collapse them back in without reproducing everything across a staging environment.The Railway Origin Story: From Uber Systems to a New CloudSwyx [00:02:07]: I was looking at your background: Bloomberg, Uber. Nothing immediately stands out as, “This guy is going to found the next great platform as a service.” What prepared you for Railway?Jake [00:02:21]: It was curiosity to keep going deeper. I started out on front-end stuff, working on Wolfram Mathematica and porting it over. Then I briefly moved to Bloomberg, then toward Uber and distributed systems, taking the Jump Bikes systems and moving them to a distributed system built on top of Cadence, the pre-Temporal Temporal.Swyx [00:02:44]: Which, by the way, I'm happy to talk about, pros and cons.Jake [00:02:48]: Totally.Swyx [00:02:51]: But let's do the Railway story.Jake [00:02:52]: It has been a continual step of wanting an experience. Whether it's walking up to a bike, unlocking it, and having it work frictionlessly, or something else, the depth required to make that happen follows from the experience. A lot of the work I do, and a lot of the team does, is in service of that experience. We fundamentally don't care how deep we have to go. We will swim to the bottom of the swimming pool to get the experience.Jake [00:03:17]: I don't have a physics PhD. I did an EECS degree. It has always been about figuring out the next step: how do we get there? That's what led to starting Railway for that experience and then moving all the way to bare metal data centers. I was adding patches to the kernel this week to get the experience there because I can see how much better it can be.Swyx [00:03:49]: Other patches to the Linux kernel this week?Jake [00:03:51]: Yeah. Not upstream. Our fork.Swyx [00:03:52]: That's a flex. Railpack? No, this is different. This is the OS on top of Railpack?Jake [00:03:57]: No, this is an actual kernel patch. It's always literally: what do we have to do to get that experience? Then figure it out. Anything is figureoutable.Swyx [00:04:10]: Would you send the patch upstream, or does it not fit other use cases?Jake [00:04:13]: Maybe. We have to work out the experience internally. It has to do with the storage layer we're building for some of the agentic stuff. Maybe it'll be useful upstream, but it's deeply useful for us internally.Open Source, Forks, and Non-Deterministic VersioningSwyx [00:04:29]: You mentioned open source before. How do you think about starting from open source, and then coding agents letting you do a lot more from forks of it?Jake [00:04:38]: GitHub's original sin is that it's almost a series of broken pointers. You have this thing, then you clone it, and now you've lost the whole upstream. How do we make it trivial for people to modify really small pieces of it?Jake [00:04:51]: We think of Git in a discrete sense: I've either made a change and merged upstream, or I haven't. What would it look like if it were percentage-based, a little more non-deterministic, or a stream of changes that users traverse as a percentage rolled out in general and then rolled all the way up?Jake [00:05:13]: We have the open-source kickback program and let you deploy templates because we want to make it trivial for people to version these shards over time. It solves a large problem around authentication, authorization, and security. NPM has a way to define, “Don't take any new packages.” The ideal end state is that you roll out progressively to users with the minimum impact zone and continue rolling up. JPMorgan should probably be the last one on the patch line, for all our sakes, because our money and livelihoods are there.Jake [00:05:53]: It's okay if Johnny Vibe Coder gets a broken patch because there's so much entropy in the system that the rubber has to meet the road at some point. You have to test at varying levels.The Long Grind: First Users, Free Tier, and Making the Business WorkSwyx [00:06:13]: I wanted to pull up this glorious chart, which is your usage or number of daily signups?Jake [00:06:22]: Daily signups, I think.Swyx [00:06:24]: You started six years ago. It was a slow grind, and now you're on a rocket ship. You say, “Don't doubt your fight and don't quit.” Maybe pick out certain points that were key inflections for the company.Jake [00:06:40]: At the start, it's about getting your first 100 users, hell or high water. We had a website and a support link. The support link was the Discord channel. I had notifications on with two monitors: the monitor I was working on and the other monitor with Discord. If anybody came in, I was immediately like, “Hey, how's it going?” It was rare, so getting those first 100 users to come back was the start.Jake [00:07:14]: Then you build a consultancy factory because users want all these things. You have to go back to the board and ask, “What is the actual product offering I want to build on top of this?”Jake [00:07:28]: VCs want charts that always go up and to the right, but in reality you don't necessarily want charts that look like that. For us, there have been periods of expansion where we add features to test use cases, and periods of compaction where we ask, “If the experience we have is good, how do we make it significantly better?” Maybe we strip out features that don't fit our ICP anymore.Jake [00:07:57]: The boom from 2022 to 2023 came from the free tier. Everybody under the sun was using it.Swyx [00:08:09]: A lot of Reddit bots and Discord bots.Jake [00:08:12]: And crypto miners. When you build an open product on the internet where anybody can sign up, the internet is a horrible place with so many things. You go through periods of asking, “How do I reach as many people as possible?” Then, “How do I fit the exact use case for the people who really matter and are really excited about this specific thing?”Jake [00:08:39]: Then there was a two-year period of making the actual business work. During the free-tier era, we were losing about half a million dollars a month.Swyx [00:08:59]: On a $20 million bank account.Jake [00:09:02]: On a $20 million bank account with maybe $50,000 a month in revenue. That's a horrible business. I don't know how anybody invested. But you have to go through it and say, “We have an experience people love, but the business has to work.”Jake [00:09:17]: There are two schools of thought. You can run the horrible business all the way up with bad margins, or you can go back and make it work. We've always wanted a super lean team. We're 35 people right now. It's very small.Swyx [00:09:36]: Supporting three million already?Jake [00:09:38]: Yeah. We're adding 100,000 users a week right now, so it's growing fast. We don't want to add headcount for the sake of headcount or throw bodies at problems. We want to build systems. It's hard to build systems during expansion because you're adding things to the system because people are asking for them or things are breaking.Jake [00:10:00]: We had to cut off the free users for a little while, rebuild the business, and make sure it worked. We want to reach as many people as possible because software is important. It's become difficult to create things in the physical world, so it's important to make it easy for people to build in the virtual world and have access to creation. But there are legs to that journey.Jake [00:10:30]: You can see divots in the charts. If you follow between 2025 and 2026, it's either summer or winter. People go on holiday with family.Swyx [00:10:50]: It affects that much?Jake [00:10:51]: Yeah. It's kind of B2C and kind of B2B. People are shipping constantly, then they stop. Our activation curve now shows more people activating on weekdays because we have more business users, so it smooths out over time.Agents as the New Interface to DeploymentSwyx [00:11:17]: Was there a point where you started prioritizing AI development or agent development?Jake [00:11:24]: We've prioritized agentic as a top-of-funnel thing. Over the last six months, we've deeply prioritized agentic as a mechanism to build and deploy things because we believe the curve is so steep and that is how people will build and deploy software.Jake [00:11:42]: It almost fundamentally doesn't matter whether this is dot-com or not because we're all on the internet anyway. If agents are going to deploy a bunch of things and we hit an inference wall at some point, we'll fix those problems. The dominant species over the next 10 years is that we've moved from assembly to C to C++ to JavaScript to words. You're going to need to close that loop.Swyx [00:12:13]: When you say this is dot-com, did you mean buying the domain, or the general case?Jake [00:12:17]: I mean the dot-com era, when companies had a huge run-up because people understood the internet was important. Then they hit bottlenecks, fundamental laws of physics, math didn't work, and everybody came back down to earth. But it didn't matter because the internet became so impactful. If you operate on a long enough time horizon, you should build these things anyway because you can see where it's going.Jake [00:12:45]: That's where I think a lot of agent stuff is. You get to a point where you're running thousands of agents in parallel. What is the inference cost? What is the compute cost? How do you make that efficient? How do you coordinate all this? We have issues coordinating humans; we don't even have good tooling for that. Now we have to figure out how to get agents to coordinate, safely version changes, and know when to raise their hand for someone to intervene. Otherwise it becomes an interrupt factory.Railway's Infrastructure Thesis: Network, Compute, Storage, and MetalSwyx [00:13:19]: Let's go right into the technical side. What are the core infrastructure or architectural beliefs of Railway that allow you to do what you do?Jake [00:13:29]: The primitives matter a lot for us. We need network, compute, storage, and orchestration around it. You need control over a lot of those things. We've talked a lot about how we don't really use Kubernetes because we want higher-order control to place workloads in very specific places.Jake [00:13:48]: The reason is that you have to be very efficient with agents: memory reuse and all these other things, or you're going to massively blow up your cost structure. Being able to rack and stack your own servers and build your own metal unlocks performance and cost. Experiences where you're running 1,000 agents in parallel are not massively cost prohibitive.Jake [00:14:13]: Token use and compute use are blowing up. Over time, those things have to get a lot more efficient. You can get a lot of margin to make those experiences solid by building your own metal. That's all in service of offering a differentiated experience to as many people as humanly possible.Swyx [00:14:51]: You have a data center in Singapore.Jake [00:14:53]: Yeah. We have two in every other region now. In Singapore, we're adding a second one in Q3.Swyx [00:14:58]: What's it like? I've never built a data center. Do you go to Equinix and say, “I want some slots?”Jake [00:15:05]: Yeah. Equinix. You basically go and say, “I want power and I want a cage.” They say, “Great, here's what it's going to be.” You rent the cage for a period of time, fill it with racks and servers, and hook up internet to it. That's all the pieces.Swyx [00:15:36]: Then you handle everything else.Jake [00:15:37]: You handle everything else.Swyx [00:15:39]: What's the math versus clouds doing it for you?Jake [00:15:43]: If we rented in the cloud, our payback period when we go to metal is about three months.Swyx [00:15:50]: Which is crazy.Jake [00:15:51]: It's nuts. That's four years of depreciated hardware. You're going to see a lot of this compute crunch because hyperscalers are buying up a lot of stuff. We're working directly with OEMs, resellers, and people building these machines: Supermicro, Dell, and others.Jake [00:16:11]: Upstream, there's a bunch of supply pressure. When we raised our last round, between deploying capital for servers and now, the amount of money we've raised is less than the amount of money we have in the bank plus the value of the servers because the servers have appreciated as RAM has gone up. It's nuts how valuable hardware has become.Jake [00:16:50]: If you look at hyperscalers, they deployed around $80 billion of capital expenditures this year, and next year will be more. That's a massive infrastructure build-out. You look at that and think it's crazy that they're spending way more than the Manhattan Project. But if every person is going to run dozens or hundreds of agents in parallel, you have no conceptual idea how much compute is required to make that experience happen, even if you're deeply efficient and sharing resources. And that doesn't even count inference.Swyx [00:17:22]: How do you plan the build-out? The growth chart is so vertical. Are you usually at 100% utilization as soon as racks are live? How far ahead are you planning?Jake [00:17:33]: We still maintain cloud presence for bursting. We work with AWS, GCP, and a few other clouds. We can rent, and then the moment we get space or power, we compact those workloads off the cloud. We started on the clouds, then built a system to migrate to our own metal. There's nothing that says you can't continually do that again, and that's exactly what we do. We never want to be compute constrained.Jake [00:18:09]: At the start of the year, we actually became compute constrained because one upstream provider wasn't able to give us quota at the rate we needed, and the hardware was slower. I spent a weekend rebuilding our entire network overlay so we could straddle five clouds: Oracle, AWS, ourselves, GCP, and one other one. We can do more than that now.Jake [00:18:38]: We got into a spot where we were trying to pack instances tight because we couldn't get enough compute. That led to a few reliability issues, which are now past us. I made a tweet pointing out that it's becoming harder and harder to acquire compute at the rate these models need to acquire compute. We got bit by it.Swyx [00:19:15]: How do you think about pricing knowing you might not have your own metal available at all times? Are you pricing assuming you need extra margin if you end up going into the cloud?Jake [00:19:26]: Because we've built out our metal data centers, our margins on metal are around 70%. We can deeply subsidize the cloud business if we want to scale at a reasonable rate. We have a few levers: metal, which makes the margins; cloud burst; debt to buy servers; and venture capital. It's an interesting operational problem: how much cash do we have, how much should we raise, how quickly can we deploy it, and can we scale revenue as quickly as we scale compute?Jake [00:20:05]: If we continue making it trivially easy for people to build and deploy, then the faster we close that loop and the more operationally excellent we are with capital, the faster the business can scale. It's almost a straight linear deployment rate.Financing Infrastructure: Hardware Debt, VC, and Operational LeverageSwyx [00:20:20]: I think infra startups raising debt is a tool people don't utilize enough or know enough about. What can you tell us about that? Is it secured against your CPUs?Jake [00:20:32]: It's secured against our hardware.Swyx [00:20:37]: What rates do you get? Who are the lenders?Jake [00:20:39]: We pay prime plus a spread, and we can refinance any of the debt as rates go down. The terms are pretty good. The unfortunate thing is that Twitter has no nuance, so people say, “Venture debt bad.” But as with all things, there are specific tools and areas where you can be deliberate instead of using one tool as a hammer. Venture capital is not the hammer for everything. You have to explore and figure out what works.Swyx [00:21:12]: VC is usually the most expensive financing you can get.Jake [00:21:15]: Yeah. I also think people think about VC incorrectly from a capital-raising perspective. Most people think, “How do I raise as much money as possible from whoever is probably the best I can get at that time?” That's close to right, but what we've tried to do is figure out what unfair advantage we can buy with that equity.Jake [00:21:34]: It's the most expensive equity you're going to give away at that point in time, assuming the company keeps getting better. How do you use it to work with someone stellar who complements you? In the seed stage, I had never started a company. Ray Tonsing had good advice, and I could text him all the time. He was really fast. Awesome.Jake [00:22:01]: Then with John and Erica at Unusual, they said, “You roughly know what you're doing building a product. We'll mostly leave you alone and be available for advice.” Amazing. Then we got to Series A and the business was an operational tire fire because we didn't know how to scale a business. Work with Erica, and Jordan is over at Redpoint, so bonus.Jake [00:22:28]: Now we've raised from TQ and FPV as we're moving into enterprises. Every step of the way, we've asked: who can we partner with at this specific time to unlock the next section of the journey? I don't know enterprise sales. As an engineer, I can eyeball what features we might need, and we have wonderful people internally who can help. But you want boardroom dynamics where everyone is aligned and asking, “How do we win this?” instead of bickering about strategy.Data Centers in Space and the Physics of ComputeSwyx [00:23:31]: You had a tweet about data centers in space. Why no data centers in space?Jake [00:23:37]: It's not “no data centers in space.” My hot take is that I think it is solvable. I've just never seen anybody solve it.Swyx [00:23:49]: You said, “How are you going to dissipate that much heat in a vacuum?” You're making a physics claim.Jake [00:23:55]: I haven't seen anybody prove how you're going to dissipate that much heat in a vacuum. It doesn't mean it's not possible. It just means nobody has brought it up yet.Swyx [00:24:05]: Astrophage.Jake [00:24:06]: I don't know what that is.Swyx [00:24:07]: The Martian thing. Okay, you're very logical.Jake [00:24:09]: It could work. A lot of people are putting the cart before the horse. They say, “We're going to put data centers in space.” Okay, but how? “We have time to figure it out.” It's like in The Martian where they ask how they're going to intercept something and say, “We'll figure it out.”Swyx [00:24:36]: Making a bet on human invention is weird because you blind trust that it can be solved. But with physics, there are first-principles bounds you can put on it. Maybe not. Maybe you're asking to travel time or break a fundamental thermodynamic law.Jake [00:24:57]: I don't know how VCs do this either. How do you know what's not possible and a grift versus what's possible but sounds completely insane? “We're going to put data centers in space.” Coin flip as to which it is, and I guess you'll know in 10 years. That's one cycle.What Agents Need: Versioning, Observability, and 1,000x ScaleSwyx [00:25:23]: Moving back to agents. The branching, fast spin-up, and orchestration you do feels like pre-work that happened to be exactly what agents want. What do agents want differently than humans?Jake [00:25:37]: They want the ability to version things. It's not that different; it materializes slightly differently. Agents want a way to test changes incrementally. Engineers have feature flags. Is there a reason agents can't use feature flags? I don't think so.Jake [00:25:54]: They want version control. Can we use Git or not Git? That one is up in the air. I think something outside Git will emerge for how we version these things over time. They need observability. You need to query what happened, when it happened, which steps failed, traces, logs, metrics, and all the rest. They need network, compute, and storage. They need to write files, save files, iterate on files, and snapshot file systems.Jake [00:26:25]: A lot of what humans needed is in line with what agents need. Branching and forking are not different; we're just moving 1,000 times quicker. It can look like you need something massively different, but what you need is something massively better than what existed. You need orchestration massively better than Kubernetes. You need networking probably better than Envoy. It goes all the way down the stack.Jake [00:26:55]: If the workload profile doesn't change so much as it gets massively compressed because you need thousands of these things, what assumptions change? etcd is going to melt. You need to replace it with something. You can go all the way down the stack and say, “That part has to change, that part has to change, and that part has to change.”Jake [00:27:19]: The interesting thing about the super-exponential curve is that you have to build systems where you can rip out those parts at any time because a new bottleneck might emerge. You get good at parallel agents, and a different part of the system breaks. So it's similar to what humans needed, but at 1,000x scale.Jake [00:27:55]: How do you do code review in the age of agents?Swyx [00:28:00]: You throw more agents at it.Jake [00:28:01]: You don't. But then who reviews for CVEs and all these other things?Swyx [00:28:07]: More agents.Jake [00:28:08]: And that's how we hit the inference wall. You can continually throw agents at the problem, but I think there's a limit to the number of agents you can throw at a problem.CLI, Agent Handles, and Closing the LoopSwyx [00:28:24]: You already had a CLI before it was cool. How is the shape of what you're exposing changing, if at all?Jake [00:28:28]: CLIs have always been cool. The CLI changes because we think about how to give Claude, Codex, ChatGPT, or any model a handhold.Jake [00:28:50]: A CLI is a single command: deploy, get logs, and so on. Things that were prohibitively annoying to humans are not annoying to agents. They're nice. If I handed you a CLI with 40 arguments and 600 flags, you'd think, “I'm never going to use all of this.” But if you hand it to an agent, it says, “This is excellent. I have so many handles to work with.”Jake [00:29:24]: If you're going to expose things to agents that way, you want as many handles as possible where they can get information, query dynamic information, and close the loop quickly. Most problems right now are about how to close the loop as quickly as possible. Where does the agent get stuck, and how can you remove that?Jake [00:29:49]: Telemetry is important. If you can tell where the agent gets stuck from the CLI and say, “12% of people deviate from the happy path because of this, and now I add this argument and drive it down to 2%,” you massively increase the rate of loop closure.Jake [00:30:03]: That's how we think about not just the CLI, but every point in the dashboard. It's a user journey: I hear about Railway. I get something deployed. I get my first green build or aha moment. I see an endpoint, logs, whatever. Then I iterate. The iteration loop is indefinite. The user wants to deploy a new thing, a Postgres instance, change code, and keep iterating.Jake [00:30:36]: If you focus on the iteration loops and what's blocking them from closing quickly, one thing we say internally is: you never want to be waiting on compute anymore. You always want to be waiting on intelligence. If you're waiting on compute, there's a bottleneck that needs to be destroyed because eventually that bottleneck becomes so large that another workflow emerges to change it.Jake [00:31:04]: We've built a product where you push code, build it, and so on. But I fundamentally believe the push-pull loop is going away. We'll get to a point where you make a small change in production, that change is versioned across your infrastructure, you're working alongside copy-on-write versions of your database and infrastructure, and then you merge it in and it's instantaneously live. That's the holy grail of loops. The push-pull-rebuild thing is a point of friction that we're removing entirely.Canvas as Output: Dashboards, Context Anchors, and HyperstructuresSwyx [00:31:43]: It's incredibly fast. If anyone hasn't tried it, that fast feedback is great. My hot take is that Railway was famous for its canvas, which visualizes your infrastructure and lets you manipulate it visually. But that was for humans. For the next phase of growth, Railway CLI is more important than canvas.Jake [00:32:05]: The canvas is funny because it's a mechanism to show changes over time. You're right that previously we used it a lot as an input. Moving forward, its goal is more like an output. You would go to the canvas, make changes, see them, and watch your infrastructure evolve. Now agents have access to the CLI and can make those changes. So the canvas becomes an output: what information does the human need at this moment to make suitable decisions about control requests? Do I approve this or not?Jake [00:32:57]: It also has to be an anchor for your context, a port in the storm. Think of it like layers in a file system. You start with a project, then drill down into services, then into a function or code, because you want to represent the entire thing not just in your head, but in the canvas. Other people can share that representation, think on the same wavelength, and move quickly.Jake [00:33:33]: A lot of organizations get in trouble as they scale because all the context lives in someone's head. “How does this microservice work?” “I have no idea; go ask this person.” Then you have whole categories of products built around context discovery. A lot of that melts away if you have a solid hierarchy and can infinitely nest services, code, context, and everything else all the way down. That's what lets you build these structures over time.Jake [00:34:18]: It's also what lets us build what I've called hyperstructures: things that are way bigger. You look at the Golden Gate Bridge and ask, “How did we build that?” There's a meme that we lost the technology. To some extent, yes, because the coordination that built those things evolved and changed. We lost some of the art of building structure as we jammed everything into Slack.Swyx [00:34:52]: But you jam everything in Discord.Jake [00:34:53]: Same point. It doesn't matter. It's message passing and interrupts, message passing and interrupts.Swyx [00:35:00]: So you're arguing there should be something better and more structured than Slack?Jake [00:35:04]: Yeah. For sure. I think Slack is awful, and Discord is awful too.Central Station: Context Routing, Support, and Incident ClustersSwyx [00:35:09]: This is the equivalent of my mom test. What have you done that has your solution to this?Jake [00:35:15]: Internally, we've built a tool called Central Station that aggregates all the context from our users. Every piece of feedback, every customer support item, everything gets aggregated into clusters. If an incident is brewing, we can determine how many users are affected and break off a discussion based on that.Jake [00:35:40]: That is more helpful than long-running channels where you're trying to decide which channel to put something in. If you can dynamically aggregate information and dynamically route it to the right person based on context, it works better. We know internally that these four people are close to networking. If we see a networking thing, we can drill it down to those four people. If it's with this part, we can look at the commits. This is no longer a manual process internally.Jake [00:36:13]: If you go to station or help.railway.com, that's why we built it. We wanted to scale with a massive amount of leverage by aggregating feedback.Swyx [00:36:27]: This is built in-house?Jake [00:36:28]: Yep.Swyx [00:36:29]: I remember helping out on this one with Angelo in 2023. You scale a lot with a very small team.Jake [00:36:38]: Yeah. We're about 10 times bigger now.Swyx [00:36:40]: You have your full developer code here? Very cool.Jake [00:36:44]: If you go to railway.com/stats, we expose this as a pub-sub-able thing. It's all real-time metrics. There's a way to get it as JSON somewhere if you care.Jake [00:37:01]: We're big on trying to build everything in public and talk about what we're working on. We've had issues in the past, and we'll say, “Here's how we're fixing these things.” We've gotten compliments and flak for incident reports. We're always trying to make them better and talk with people.Incidents, Disclosure, and Progressive RolloutsSwyx [00:37:20]: You had a big one recently. I liked that it was scoped to 3,000. You presumably used Central Station. Talk through what happened and how you address it internally as a team.Jake [00:37:38]: Internally, this one really sucked. It had to do with an upstream provider that didn't do the behavior it said it documented, which is unfortunate given they wrote the RFC for how the behavior should work. We rolled those things out, and Central Station caught it initially when a couple users said caches weren't invalidating. We turned it off immediately.Jake [00:38:03]: When you roll out to a large user base of three million people, you get a lot of disparate behaviors. We tested in staging and had tests, but we hit an edge case. We've hardened those systems, and now we can make that better. But it was a tough one.Swyx [00:38:39]: I always wonder how private disclosure is supposed to work if people find an issue. Are they supposed to contact you first? When you run a platform, these things will happen. What channels should people pursue to quietly resolve it before it becomes a bigger incident?Jake [00:38:59]: There's responsible disclosure. We err on the side of over-disclosing and letting you know something is wrong versus having your provider gaslight you. We've erred on sharing those things more publicly, even if they impact a small subset of users. That's a decision we've made internally. We have four values. One is honor. The honorable thing is to notify people to the widest degree at which they may have been affected or there was an issue, and then confront it head-on: why did it happen, what can we do better?Swyx [00:39:45]: Not the whole user base. That's because of incremental rollouts and other things?Jake [00:39:50]: Yeah. Progressive rollouts.Swyx [00:39:54]: That should be the norm at all large platforms.Jake [00:39:58]: It should. A variety of companies do this. There's the quote that Meta runs 10,000 different versions of Meta. To our earlier point about agents, they need the same thing. They need shadow traffic and all these other things. We've built so much ceremony around production being sacred that we need to make it trivially easy to test different behaviors in a safe environment. Then you can make mistakes in a safe environment.Safe AI SRE: Customer Agents, Forked Environments, and Production ParityAlessio [00:40:30]: Do you see a world where these things get automatically caught, not necessarily by your agent, but by your customer's agent? The cache invalidation issue seems easy to check if you know to look for it.Jake [00:40:44]: It's hard because to determine it, we almost need to hook into your observability infrastructure. That's why we have the template loop on the platform: so you can roll things out progressively. You can roll out to Johnny Vibe Coder initially, or push a shard that someone consumes at their own leisure. Or you can roll it out over weeks: 0.1% of people, 1% of people, early adopters, then all the way up. That's the non-deterministic version control we talked about earlier.Jake [00:41:30]: I believe that's where most things should go, because most companies end up building staged rollout systems in-house. It's the same thing built again and again at every company. There's a massive opportunity to consolidate developer debt.Alessio [00:41:45]: You should have a free tier. Model providers give free tokens if you let them use the data. You could give free compute if someone is the number-one shard that goes out and lets you plug into their observability.Jake [00:41:55]: We do that. That's why we talked about the impact on 3,000 people. We start with lower-impact people. Larger companies on the platform are last to receive those rollouts so they have a version of the platform that's deeply stable.Alessio [00:42:16]: I have three services, so I'm sure I get the first rollout. You can nuke my thing at any time. There are all these SRE agent companies. Observability people also want agents that fix upstream problems. You have your own agent in the canvas now. How do you see that playing out?Jake [00:42:39]: It's the stacking entropy problem. If you don't have primitives to make iteration in production safe, it becomes difficult. If you're an observability provider saying, “Here's the fix to this error,” assume 80% are good and make sense. But in the last 20% long tail of complex issues, if you let somebody stamp it, you create an opportunity for an incident.Jake [00:43:08]: That's why forked environments are important. People have staging, but it always drifts from production. You need primitives, workflows, and experience built first-party on the platform so you can fork any service at any point in time.Jake [00:43:33]: I think of the canvas as a sheet of transparency paper. The agent is a little guy you push up into the canvas. It should say, “I need to copy that service and that service so I can test these two things.” It gets a read-only copy of production. Anything that's PII gets marked as a transform when we clone the database, create a copy-on-write version, or read from it. Then the agent makes changes and asks, “Does this actually work?” as close to production as possible.Jake [00:44:22]: That's how close you have to be, or you get massive drift. The system becomes unstable. You see this with massive systems built on Docker for local, Kubernetes for production, and a specific thing for something else. That complexity slows developers and becomes unstable at scale, making it hard to iterate. We want to compress that way down and say, “As close to prod as possible is where we want to be.”From AISRE Skeptic to Agent BelieverSwyx [00:45:00]: I was texting Erica for questions, and she says you were originally not a believer in AISRE. Have you come around on it?Jake [00:45:10]: I flipped, but I'm still not a believer in AISRE if you don't have the primitives to make it safe. If you unleash AISRE on production infrastructure without safe primitives for copying volumes and making sure things are fine, it's going to nuke your production database. It's not a matter of if, but when. I'm a big believer in making those loops safe.Jake [00:45:33]: I was a deep AI skeptic until 2023. In 2024, I thought, “Maybe I can roughly make this thing do it.” In 2025, I thought, “Now I can hold this.” Over winter break, everybody came back saying, “It's almost impossible to hold this.”Swyx [00:46:01]: Did you see this on the Claude docs? CloudBot? OpenCloud?Jake [00:46:06]: It's gotten to a point where it's harder to hold it wrong than to hold it right. There's a scene in Avengers where Vision picks up Thor's hammer and says it's terribly well-balanced. It self-balances and works well. I'm a deep believer at this point that this will be the dominant species: assembly, C, C++, JavaScript, words.Swyx [00:46:35]: It feels like a big jump.Jake [00:46:37]: It is. But it's not like you abandon CPU-based discrete logic and move straight to fuzzy logic. You need both. Your skills should call code or applications or some static structure. You can use skills to distill what the procedure should be or how the code should act.Jake [00:47:02]: I'm coming to a thesis: you need three points. You need a clear spec defining the system, the code, and the tests. When you say it out loud, if you've been in engineering long enough, you're like, “Of course. That's an RFC, tests, and code.” But they all matter. Having them together lets them reinforce each other: the spec and tests match, but the code doesn't, so reconcile it. Or the tests and code match but the spec doesn't, so reconcile that. That's the iteration loop.Jake [00:47:41]: That's why you're seeing people talk about software factories, docs, and reconciliation. Some of that is architectural astronomy if you don't implement it, but that loop is where most things will end up.Swyx [00:48:07]: For listeners, we've been talking about this on the pod for three years: the holy trinity of specs and tests. Itamar Friedman from Qodo is the reference if people want to look it up.Self-Modifying Infrastructure and the End of Push-Pull-RebuildSwyx [00:48:18]: One thing I want to mention on the OpenCloud idea is self-modification. I don't know how Railway would support it, but I have my OpenClaw, and I just tell it it has the Railway CLI and can do whatever. In theory, whatever capabilities or new infra it needs, it can call the Railway CLI, provision it, and add it to itself. The agent can modify its own infra.Jake [00:48:45]: It's nuts. I have a loop set up where you put the Railway CLI on top of something that runs on Railway. You're authenticated as whatever the current box is, and you can make any changes to it. Then you call Railway deploy, and it deploys itself.Jake [00:49:04]: It's like: “I need to spin up this instance of this environment. I already exist in this environment. Excellent, I have access to a Postgres instance now.” That's where we want to go with agentic, self-replicating infrastructure. That's your loop: iterate in production. You continue making changes. If it works, merge it upstream. If it doesn't, throw it away.Jake [00:49:37]: How do you make throwaway copies trivial to spin up and super cheap? The era of “I have an AWS instance with four vCPU and 16 gigs of RAM” is going to get destroyed. If you do that for agents, you need a thousand of those machines. It's prohibitively expensive compared with what we've spent a ton of time figuring out: the atomic unit of deploy, whether you call it isolates, sandboxes, or something else. Only pay for what you use, spin up instantaneously, and close the loop as quickly as possible.Jake [00:50:15]: If the system can self-replicate safely and say, “This is my environment, I'm making these changes,” it can come back with, “Does this look good? This is a new state of infrastructure given this prompt. I think I've solved it.” Then you go back and say, “Actually, it looks different.” It does the loop again. Then you say, “Cool. Apply.”Swyx [00:50:38]: That's retroactively obvious, which is the most useful kind. Any other comments on agent deployment on Railway?Jake [00:50:51]: It's getting better every day. I'm on X or Twitter. You can always yell at me about the parts not working as well as they should, because plenty of things should work way better.The New Serverless: Stateful, Long-Running, Pay-for-What-You-Use LinuxSwyx [00:51:04]: At this stage, when people want massively or embarrassingly parallel compute, they usually talk serverless. I feel like there's a new serverless compared to the previous five years of serverless. You're in that new bucket. Do you have comparisons or philosophical differences you want to call out?Jake [00:51:31]: It's somewhere in between. It's the ability to run stateful, long-running workflows or executions.Swyx [00:51:42]: Vercel has Fluid Compute, Cloudflare has some container thing, Google has App Runner and others.Jake [00:51:55]: That's where everything is roughly going, and it's why we've been working on this for six years. We believe users need access to a computer: a box that speaks Linux. They need to deploy what they want. Other systems change the surface area of what you can build. For us, users need a computer and need to deploy anything they truly want. That's why we've focused on the primitives: network, compute, storage. If we give you those and expose them so you can run things indefinitely, that's where we believe it's going.Jake [00:52:43]: Twitter has no nuance, so everyone says “servers” or “serverless.” It's always somewhere in the middle: I want to run it for a long time, but I don't want to provision the resource statically or pay for things I'm not using. That's been our thesis from day one: pay only for what you use, run it indefinitely, and it is full Linux.Swyx [00:53:12]: That's why I like the naming of Fluid. It's fluid. Flexible.Heroku, Focus, and Carrying the Torch Without Becoming the PastSwyx [00:53:18]: Another milestone is the Heroku official deprecation. You're one of the presumptive new Herokus. “New Heroku” has been a category for as long as I've been in developer tooling. It's finally happening. What was that like? Any behind-the-scenes of, “This is the moment”?Jake [00:53:42]: You have people where you're like, “You were running stuff on here? You, as this company?” It's crazy that names you would know are running on it and now coming to us saying, “We want to move a lot of this off.”Swyx [00:54:00]: Any behind-the-scenes on why Salesforce let Heroku stagnate?Jake [00:54:05]: I can only guess. It's hard when it's not your business. Salesforce's business is to build a great CRM. That's their focus. Then you acquire a compute business as an offshoot. A lot of early Meta people talk about focus. Boz has a write-up about how in the early days of Meta they had no money, so they were forced to focus. Then they turned on the money tree and had no reason not to split their focus.Jake [00:54:52]: But that dilutes your product. You get offshoots where you ask, “Is this the focus of the business?” If it's not core, it languishes. A lot of companies get in trouble when they split focus because they're fighting a multi-front war, not just externally but internally for alignment. Where are we going? What are we doing? What is our purpose?Jake [00:55:24]: If you're Salesforce-built and mission-driven, you want to work on Salesforce. Heroku is off to the side. It's not core to the business. Getting resources, budget, focus, and alignment internally becomes hard. It was a matter of time.Swyx [00:56:06]: Kudos for them to call it out instead of leaving it unknown.Jake [00:56:12]: Their release was a little odd. They called it out, but they didn't say they were shutting it down. Behind the scenes, I think they issued messages to people saying they should close accounts and that they were going to deprecate and remove things over time.Jake [00:56:30]: It's crazy because some of my first deployment experiences were on Heroku. You start with dragging things into an FTP server, then you try to get a deploy working, and then it's Heroku. It was the on-ramp for us. But the wheel turns. New things emerge. We're happy to carry the torch for a lot of that. But we don't want to be the new Heroku. We want to be the way people build and deploy software, and ultimately the way people monetize software over time.Swyx [00:57:19]: It's still a big crown to be the new Heroku. There are 50 companies that fought for that.Jake [00:57:23]: Everybody is holding some portion of it. We're happy to support people and companies. The platform works differently. The game loop is similar, but we've been dogmatic about where these things are going: primitives, agents, fan-out. Some things fit; some workflows need to change. We have an approximation of Heroku pipelines with the environment system. It's exciting. We've got a ton of people we can support, and it's growing a lot.Temporal, Workflow Engines, and State MachinesSwyx [00:58:12]: I have one more technical question about Temporal. I've sold my shares. You're a power user and one of our earliest customers. I met you through Temporal. You built on Temporal. You have complaints. This may be the most neutral and informed conversation anyone will hear about Temporal without someone working at the company.Jake [00:58:39]: That's fair. I've used Temporal for almost 10 years because of Cadence at Uber.Swyx [00:58:52]: Give people a sense of what Cadence was at Uber.Jake [00:58:57]: Cadence was the precursor to Temporal. It powers trip actions, rides, when you rent a Jump bike or scooter or car. You're running workflows for a period of time and saying, “This ride will run indefinitely until it finishes.” You attach information: you paused in this zone, so add this charge to the bill. When you end the trip, the workflow is done. That experience was powered by Cadence at the time.Swyx [00:59:34]: I used to say it's like programming the entire user journey top-down as one function.Jake [00:59:39]: It's a powerful idea and important. It's also important for the next phase of the agentic journey. You want an agent to do a specific task, be complete or incomplete on that task, and move on to the next thing. You need a way to manage workflows dynamically.Jake [00:59:59]: Temporal was always great in theory, and great when you got it working the way you wanted in production. But it required you to model the entire journey in your head. If you didn't, you could cause issues where replaying the state of the workflow causes non-determinism.Swyx [01:00:25]: Because it works on deterministic workflow history.Jake [01:00:28]: Exactly. I describe it as a jet engine. If you know how to operate it and run it, it's great. But you can't hand it to people trying to build complicated things if they don't have the whole state in their head.Jake [01:00:48]: We run our whole deployment pipeline on top of it. That's a reasonably complicated workflow: pre-commit hooks, signaling, queuing, and all the rest. We ran into the same thing at Uber. As you express a large workflow, it gets more complicated, with more states in the state machine that you have to map back to the workflow.Swyx [01:01:15]: It's a lot of ifs.Jake [01:01:16]: Exactly. At Uber, we built a system for doing the state machine and testing it. We've started to build some of those things here because it's grown heavily. It's not quite love-hate. When it works well, it works super well. But if someone who doesn't have full context puts something into the system that invalidates state or causes non-determinism, or spins off a ton of activities, you have to keep track of underlying SRE knobs like activity slots. Those should scale with memory, vCPU, and so on. It becomes a bear to scale.Swyx [01:02:10]: You need a capable sysadmin running things behind the scenes. If you moved off, what would you do?Jake [01:02:19]: We'd build our own workflow engine. We have a few internally that we've worked on.Swyx [01:02:27]: This is one of those classes of things you typically wouldn't vibe code, but I'm wondering if you can.Jake [01:02:33]: I still don't think you should vibe code it. You still want to run decent tests to make sure it works.Swyx [01:02:39]: Timo didn't invent that from scratch either. There are libraries you can run. On top of that, it's just a state machine that you have to map out. Ultimately, you define the instructions you want and run them through a state machine.Jake [01:03:00]: It's very doable. Workflow stuff is interesting. Restate is doing neat stuff here.Swyx [01:03:10]: You're tied into JavaScript. Are you a JavaScript maxi?Jake [01:03:13]: Internally, we have TypeScript, Rust, and Go. We don't add more languages. Actually, we have a little C because we write BPF code and hooks. But those are the languages.Swyx [01:03:28]: Is this for sidecars?Jake [01:03:32]: No. It's for the networking stack, volumes, and things like that. We use TypeScript a lot because it powers the dashboard, but we're moving a lot of workflow stuff off the dashboard stack and into the infrastructure stack.Railpack, Nixpacks, and Content-Addressable FilesystemsSwyx [01:04:00]: Cool. Any other technical infrastructure stuff? Railpacks?Jake [01:04:07]: We built an engine for determining dependencies based on source code. It's called Railpack. We built the first version, Nixpacks, on top of Nix, and then we moved.Swyx [01:04:17]: People have been trying to get me to adopt Nix and NixOS for four years. Is it ever going to be a thing?Jake [01:04:23]: I don't know. We're excited about it, but it has pain points. Think of it as a stack of versioned binaries at specific slices in time. If you want version X and version Y, you bloat the package space, which blows up image size and makes real-world workloads difficult.Swyx [01:04:53]: But you content-address it and cache it. In theory, there are optimizations.Jake [01:05:00]: In theory, yes. But with a large enough user base and disparate enough machines, you run into a problem Meta described in the XFAAS paper, their internal serverless system. It becomes difficult at scale unless you break out specific runtimes.Jake [01:05:24]: We didn't want to do that because we wanted to truly allow you to deploy anything. That was our initial thing with Nix. But we've moved toward interesting work around content-addressable file systems that can lazy-load anything from any point and page it into memory.Swyx [01:05:48]: Amazing.Jake [01:05:49]: The future is very bright. It's crazy, and it's going to be nuts.Coding Agent Spend, Roadmaps, and Token ROISwyx [01:05:54]: Founder journey stuff?Alessio [01:05:56]: Your cloud usage: you tweeted you're going to spend $300K this month?Jake [01:06:01]: I think we got to $200K.Alessio [01:06:02]: Coding agents?Jake [01:06:03]: Yeah.Swyx [01:06:04]: Across the company?Alessio [01:06:05]: You only have 35 people, so I'm sure they're not all spending $10K a month. What's the distribution?Jake [01:06:10]: I think I'm at about $25K. We have power users all the way down. We came back from winter break, and I basically said, “If you're writing code by hand, you're doing this wrong.” The tools are good enough now that you can move extremely quickly. There are issues and pain points, but you should be reviewing the code you are writing instead of writing it by hand.Jake [01:06:40]: Architectural patterns matter more now than ever, but you shouldn't spend your time generating code you would write. If you know how to write it, ask the agent to write it and reconcile it until it looks like you would have written it yourself.Jake [01:06:58]: People misconstrue my propensity to push people toward agents as connected to our growth and some reliability bumps. They're not necessarily related. The tools are good enough to move extremely quickly and build things way larger than you could before.Jake [01:07:19]: To the earlier point about cooling data centers in space: I don't know. But with software, you can ask, “How would I build block storage from scratch? How would I do these things?” I have ideas because I have history and have read papers. Let me work them out and build massive test benches with thousands of tests, because those are now free to author. If you're not using AI systems to speed-run your roadmap and reconcile your existing system onto the future, you're missing a large point of what's happening.Alessio [01:08:12]: What's the path to spending $3 million a month? Is it bound by ideas and things customers can absorb?Jake [01:08:19]: For most companies, it's bound by deployment at this point. That's why we've seen a massive boom in users and companies, from Fortune 50s down, asking how to get developers to move faster. You'll probably hit your CFO before any technical limits because they'll look at the eye-watering amount of money spent on tokens. Inference costs have to come down, but we're inference constrained now. There will be price discovery around what makes sense for an org to adopt.Jake [01:09:06]: I think you'll end up with the F1 driver concept. If someone is really adept at these things, it makes sense to put them in a $3 million car. If they're not, it probably doesn't make sense. You'll take a few people and say, “You can drive the F1 car. We need to go in this direction. Figure out if it works and prototype it.”Jake [01:09:33]: We've done some of that and vastly accelerated our roadmap. We thought we'd ship something in a few years; now we can probably ship it in a few months because we validated it and don't have to build it incrementally. We can skip steps and move toward our vision.Alessio [01:09:58]: A lot of people are realizing the roadmap doesn't always have a business impact, so they say tokens are too expensive. But if your roadmap were built to make more money by the time you built it, you'd have token pricing for it, the same way you do with sales. You'd spend a billion dollars on sales if you knew you would get $2 billion of revenue.Jake [01:10:19]: Exactly. A naive way to measure this is the percentage of tokens that end up in production. If you can measure impact because those tokens end up in production, that's awesome. But the burden of proof will rise. Internally, we have a growing number of pull requests that haven't merged. The question becomes: how do you get this into production? It's about how quickly you can build and deploy software, which is exciting because that's our whole thing.The SDLC Shift: Prompt Requests, Feature Flags, and Safe RolloutsSwyx [01:10:56]: The SDLC is changing. One thesis is that the pull request is dying. It's going to be the prompt request. Beyond that, code review is also kind of dying if you have all the other systems in place. What else is changing about the SDLC?Jake [01:11:19]: The AISRE and the tools to make it happen. AISRE is pie-in-the-sky aspirational. What does it take to get an AISRE? What tools do you need to build?Swyx [01:11:32]: You should expose your tooling to customers at some point. The Central Station command center.Jake [01:11:39]: We have it for template maintainers. Template maintainers can deploy and maintain templates, and they get feedback. We're going to expose those things incrementally.Swyx [01:11:51]: Clustering around incidents. Everyone has a version of that, but I don't think anyone has solved it.Jake [01:11:56]: I won't say we've solved it internally, but it's gotten so good that we can see incidents forming pretty quickly. At some point, those will be things either someone else builds or we build. We've always built things purpose-built for us. If it makes sense to make it useful for users, monetize it, or turn that loop into a profit center instead of a cost center, we want to do that.Jake [01:12:28]: Pull request is definitely dying.Swyx [01:12:29]: Do you do first-party feature flagging and incremental rollout stuff?Jake [01:12:34]: We have a feature-flagging engine we built internally and will eventually roll out.Swyx [01:12:38]: I don't see it as a user. How come you didn't give us what you have?Jake [01:12:43]: We have to beta test it. We care a lot about the quality of the things. There's plenty we've used internally that doesn't make it all the way through the journey because it fails. It works for one service but not multiple services. We'd have to build it for multiple services and know that if we released it, we'd rebuild it again and again. Some things are worth that, but many inform the roadmap.Jake [01:13:18]: We don't want to dilute the experience by saying, “This works, but only for this service,” unless it's a core initiative. Over the next few months, we'll roll out things that work for a single service, then multiple services, then multiple services across the environment. You have to be deliberate. Otherwise you create broken disparate experiences and support load because people ask how to use the feature.Jake [01:13:52]: It's the earlier expansion and compaction pattern. You expand the company to get features, then compact and smooth them out so the experience is stellar. You told me in the hallway, “It's gotten so much better.” Internally we're saying, “This part really sucks. We need to make it significantly better.”Swyx [01:14:11]: I can attest to that over the last three years watching you build Railway. For listeners, feature flagging is a huge part of Uber culture. So much so that they have too many feature flags and another thing to remove feature flags. Facebook has Gatekeeper. Agents are going to need this. It's fundamental to incremental rollouts. OpenAI acquired Statsig. GPT-5 is routing and flagging through different models.Jake [01:14:56]: It's super important. If the software development lifecycle is going to change because we're doing things 1,000 times faster and 1,000 times more concurrently, what becomes important at scale?Jake [01:15:16]: Before I started Railway, I built a feature-flagging product and tried to sell it. It was an easier version of LaunchDarkly. I ran into a problem: anyone small enough to adopt your technology doesn't care about feature flags, and anyone large enough to need feature flags needs so much scale that you have to build out all the infrastructure. I scrapped it.Jake [01:15:42]: But what is old is new again. Companies are trying to move quickly, but you can't YOLO a vibe-coded thing straight into production. You need to say, “Here's my blast radius, my impact, and I want to shadow it for these users.” Feature flags. You're going to need the tools larger companies built to maintain their structures. Everything gets compressed by 1,000x so everybody can build those structures quickly.Jake [01:16:07]: That's exactly where we are: compressing the software development lifecycle, then expanding it and adding more new things.Cattle, Pets, and Clonable InfrastructureSwyx [01:16:15]: Another term that comes to mind for newer developers is “cattle, not pets.” People treat production like a pet. It has a name. You baby it and keep it alive. With cattle, you can mass farm, roll out, portion parts out, and kill them.Jake [01:16:37]: I think that might change. You can move toward having pets as long as you have a cloning machine for your pets.Swyx [01:16:52]: Yeah.Jake [01:16:52]: If you can snapshot every single thing at every frame, it doesn't matter if something gets obliterated because you have a snapshot of it. The things we've built right now are designed to block changes from the hermetically sealed DevOps line. You have to write a Dockerfile because you nee

In this episode of the Ardan Labs Podcast, Ale Kennedy talks with Eugene Cheah, founder of Featherless, about his journey from physics to building globally accessible AI systems. Eugene shares his vision for making AI more affordable, multilingual, and open to communities around the world through efficient architectures and open-source collaboration.The conversation explores GPU optimization, evolving AI infrastructure, the importance of multilingual support, and the balance between innovation and regulation. Eugene also reflects on speaking at the United Nations, the future of open-source AI, and why accessibility and transparency are essential for the next generation of AI technology.00:00 Introduction and Featherless02:25 Education and Early Interests10:24 University and Military Service15:19 Entering the AI Industry22:33 Startups and AI Development30:42 AI as a Force for Good34:28 AI, Culture, and Automation42:13 Fundraising and Building a Startup50:10 AI Architecture and Optimization58:23 The Evolution of Featherless01:02:37 Building a Global AI Vision01:06:57 Open Source and AI Accessibility01:12:35 AI Risks and Real-World Concerns01:18:20 Lessons Learned and Final ThoughtsConnect with Eugene: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugene-cheah-a47791126/Mentioned in this Episode:Featherless AI: https://featherless.ai/Want more from Ardan Labs? You can learn Go, Kubernetes, Docker & more through our video training, live events, or through our blog!Online Courses : https://ardanlabs.com/education/ Live Events : https://www.ardanlabs.com/live-training-events/ Blog : https://www.ardanlabs.com/blog Github : https://github.com/ardanlabs

Me faltaba por contarte en detalle esta parte sobre mis copias de seguridad. Filen.io es el destino de las configuraciones de mis contenedores Docker y todo lo hago a través de una interfaz web que usa restic por debajo.

On episode 51 of The Kubelist Podcast, Marc Campbell and Benjie De Groot sit down with Kyle Galbraith. Kyle shares the story behind Depot and explains how the company evolved from accelerating Docker builds into building an entirely new CI platform designed for the AI era. The conversation explores BuildKit internals, remote caching, microVMs, AWS infrastructure, and why modern software development may require rethinking CI from the ground up.

On episode 51 of The Kubelist Podcast, Marc Campbell and Benjie De Groot sit down with Kyle Galbraith. Kyle shares the story behind Depot and explains how the company evolved from accelerating Docker builds into building an entirely new CI platform designed for the AI era. The conversation explores BuildKit internals, remote caching, microVMs, AWS infrastructure, and why modern software development may require rethinking CI from the ground up.

En el episodio de hoy, el número 796, vengo con muchas ganas de contarte algo que me tiene completamente fascinado.Pero vamos a lo importante: las Skills o habilidades. Si creías que la inteligencia artificial era solo un chat donde escribir preguntas y recibir respuestas, prepárate, porque hoy vamos a ver cómo dotar a nuestros modelos de lenguaje de auténticos "superpoderes" técnicos.¿Qué son realmente las Skills?Imagina que en lugar de darle instrucciones genéricas a tu modelo (lo que conocemos como prompt), le proporcionas una estructura especializada. Una Skill es una herramienta transversal que le enseña al modelo a comportarse como un experto en una materia concreta. Lo maravilloso es que estas habilidades no dependen de un solo modelo; puedes usarlas con Claude, con OpenCode, con Hermes o con cualquier otro agente. Es una forma de democratizar el conocimiento técnico y hacerlo reutilizable.En este episodio te cuento mi experiencia personal utilizando estas habilidades para tareas que, de normal, nos llevarían bastante tiempo de configuración. Desde crear contenedores Docker optimizados hasta gestionar bases de datos complejas sin escribir una sola línea de SQL.Soberanía Digital y Potencia LocalYa sabes que me encanta el lema de "yo me lo guiso, yo me lo como". Aunque existen servicios externos muy económicos para correr estos modelos, nada supera la sensación de tener el control total. Te hablo de mi configuración actual: un Slimbook con una Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 Ti de 16 GB de VRAM. Con este hardware estoy corriendo modelos como el Qwen de 35 billones de parámetros con una fluidez espectacular. Aquí es donde la soberanía digital cobra sentido: mis datos, mis reglas y mi hardware.Ejemplos prácticos: Docker y SQLiteA lo largo del audio, te guío por dos ejemplos que me han dejado con la boca abierta:Docker Expert.SQLite Expert.La Anatomía de una Skill: Bajo el capóMenciono también el increíble trabajo de Daniel Primo en Web Reactiva, quien ha profundizado muchísimo en este tema de las Skills y cuya guía ha sido una fuente de inspiración fundamental para experimentar con todo esto.Conclusión: El futuro es el lenguaje naturalCapítulos:00:00:00 El troleo a David y la importancia del feedback00:00:41 Introducción a las Skills: Dale "poderes" a tu IA00:01:14 Repaso a OpenCode y el paso a la soberanía digital00:02:11 Mi hardware: Slimbook, Nvidia RTX 4060 Ti y el modelo Qwen00:02:55 ¿Qué son realmente las Skills y por qué usarlas?00:04:18 Ejemplo práctico: Instalando una Skill para Docker00:04:58 Recomendación: La guía de Skills de Daniel Primo00:06:08 Generando un Dockerfile complejo para Rust en dos etapas00:07:34 Anatomía de una Skill: Front Matter, YAML y Markdown00:09:25 Cómo el agente gestiona los tokens y las habilidades00:10:48 Verificación del Dockerfile generado por la IA00:12:11 Trabajando con bases de datos: Skill de SQLite Expert00:13:24 Experiencia real: Revisando código Backend y Frontend00:15:38 Consultas en lenguaje natural sobre la base de datos00:17:40 Tipos de Skills: Percepción, Acción y Pensamiento Complejo00:19:47 Conclusiones: Programar sin programar y modelos locales00:20:29 Despedida y red de sospechosos habitualesMás información, enlaces y notas en https://atareao.es/podcast/796

Neste episódio, Guilherme Goulart e Vinícius Serafim analisam casos reais e tendências que colocam em xeque a segurança digital e física no Brasil. Você vai descobrir como criminosos burlaram um sistema de reconhecimento facial em condomínios de Porto Alegre usando engenharia social, expondo os riscos do teatro da segurança, do solucionismo tecnológico e da hipossuficiência técnica dos consumidores. Em seguida, você vai entender o que está por trás do lançamento do modelo Mitos da Anthropic — classificado como perigoso demais para uso público —, e por que os resultados práticos com o Firefox e o cURL geraram ceticismo no meio da cibersegurança, levantando questões sobre propaganda de IA, governança, regulação e concorrência no mercado de inteligência artificial. Neste episódio, você também acompanha a análise da lei 15.397, que atualizou crimes digitais no Brasil com penas mais severas para furto qualificado digital, cessão de conta laranja e fraude eletrônica — e por que, sem investimento em capacidade investigativa, isso pode ser apenas populismo penal. Além disso, são discutidas duas vulnerabilidades críticas no Linux (CVE Copyfile e Dirty Frag) com exploits já circulando antes da correção, e como a IA pode acabar com o anonimato na internet ao identificar autores por fingerprint de texto com apenas 125 palavras. Os temas de privacidade, proteção de dados, LGPD, segurança ofensiva, pentest e infraestrutura em nuvem permeiam toda a conversa. Assine o Segurança Legal na sua plataforma favorita, siga o perfil nas redes sociais e avalie o podcast para ajudar a ampliar o alcance deste projeto independente de conteúdo sobre segurança da informação. Você também pode apoiar diretamente pelo Apoia.se (apoia.se/segurancalegal) ou simplesmente indicar o podcast para colegas e amigos — cada compartilhamento faz diferença. Entre em contato pelo e-mail podcast@segurancalegal.com ou pelo Mastodon, Instagram, Bluesky, YouTube e TikTok. Esta descrição foi realizada a partir do áudio do podcast com o uso de IA, com revisão humana.  Visite nossa campanha de financiamento coletivo e nos apoie!  Conheça o Blog da BrownPipe Consultoria e se inscreva no nosso mailing Shownotes Polícia prende suspeitos de invadir e furtar apartamentos de alto padrão em Porto Alegre; grupo usava fraude em reconhecimento facial Polícia desarticula grupo de criminosos que furtava apartamentos de luxo via redes sociais Atualização do Código Penal para alguns crimes digitais Will AI end anonymity? I tested it I can never talk to an AI anonymously again Anthropic's most dangerous AI model just fell into the wrong hands Unauthorized group has gained access to Anthropic's exclusive cyber tool Mythos, report claims It’s a myth that you need Mythos to find bugs: Open source models can do it just as well Filme: Quebra de Sigilo (Sneakers) BC Protege Livro – Sob a sombra da suástica: a França ocupada Filme – Viagem ao mundo dos sonhos Artigo – Em louvor ao Teatro da Segurança Imagem do episódio: The Ancient Days, Willia, Blanke

El contenedor Docker del que te hablo hoy nos permite descargarnos todos los archivos 3D de cualquier set de Lego, para luego imprimirlo en nuestra impresora 3D. No todo es perfecto, ni mucho menos, pero da mucho juego para ciertas cosas.

He helped build the infrastructure that runs the modern internet. First AWS. Then Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Then Heroku. Then Stripe. Now he's at Docker — and he thinks we're about to need a completely new layer underneath all of it.When Mark Cavage, President & COO of Docker, joined the company, the question wasn't whether agents were coming. It was whether the infrastructure underneath them was ready.It wasn't.Before anyone was talking about agentic workloads in production…Before AI tools started writing, running, and deploying their own code…Before CISOs had a framework for reasoning about autonomous systems…There was a simple but uncomfortable realization:Containers were built for immutable, predictable software. Agents want to mutate everything.In this episode of the Future of Data & AI Podcast, Mark Cavage — President & COO of Docker and one of the founding engineers of Oracle Cloud Infrastructure — joins Raja Iqbal for a candid conversation about what the agentic era actually demands from infrastructure.Mark has spent over two decades building the systems that power modern cloud. Through Docker, he's now working on the sandbox layer that lets enterprises deploy agents at scale — without handing over control to a system nobody fully understands yet.This conversation goes beyond the hype.What You'll Discover:Why containers alone aren't enough for the agentic era.Containers were built for immutable software. Agents mutate, write, and act — and Mark explains exactly what breaks, and what Docker built to fix it.What YOLO mode actually means — and why it matters.Agents running without a human in the loop sounds reckless. Mark explains why that's actually the goal, and how the micro VM sandbox makes it safe enough for enterprise.The 1000x risk surface no one is talking about.Every AI-generated pull request, every "authored by Claude" commit, every autonomously deployed dependency is stacking security debt. Mark breaks down what that means for your CISO.Trusted MCP servers and Docker Hardened Images.What they are, why they exist, and why supply chain security for AI tools is about to become one of the most important conversations in enterprise tech.Mark's bets for the next 12 months.CFOs demanding ROI on token spend, the open source project that no one is talking about, and what the future of Agentic AI looks like.This episode is for:ML engineers and DevOps teams building with agentsCISOs and security leaders managing a 1000x larger risk surfacePlatform and infrastructure leads evaluating MCP servers and supply chain securityCTOs and engineering leaders figuring out what "agentic" actually means for their orgFounders deciding where the next infrastructure layer gets builtThis isn't a conversation about demos or roadmaps.It's about the infrastructure that agents actually need to run safely, reliably, and at scale — and whether the industry is building it fast enough.If you're deploying agents in production, managing the security conversation, or trying to understand where Docker fits in the agentic stack… this episode is worth your time.Explore all recordings

Java 26 est là, GraalVM cartonne chez Trivago (43 à 12 réplicas !), OpenJDK interdit le code généré par LLM, Spring et Quarkus enchaînent les releases. Côté IA : ADK 1.0, A2A, Lyria 3 chante (mal ?), Yann LeCun lance Ami Labs et ses World Models. Mythos d'Anthropic fait trembler la sécu, Claude Code a leaké son source, et les git worktrees envahissent vos terminaux. Bonus : la mort annoncée de l'IDE, vagues de licenciement chez Oracle et Block, et nos voix toutes clonées. Bon week-ends de mai ! Enregistré le 7 mai 2026 Téléchargement de l'épisode LesCastCodeurs-Episode-340.mp3 ou en vidéo sur YouTube. News Langages Retour d'expérience d'une migration vers graalVM chez Trivago https://medium.com/graalvm/inside-trivagos-graalvm-migration-native-image-for-graphql-at-scale-912bca9df841 La passerelle GraphQL de Trivago (point d'entrée de tout le trafic vers 48 microservices) souffrait de pics de timeout au démarrage JVM Résultats spectaculaires après migration vers GraalVM Native Image : réduction des réplicas de 43 à 12, CPU de 15 à 5 cœurs, images Docker plus légères Obstacles techniques : incompatibilité Log4j → migration vers Logback, remplacement de Mockk par Testcontainers, compilation CI/CD très gourmande Netflix DGS et d'autres librairies manquaient de support GraalVM → l'équipe a contribué des correctifs upstream en open source Approche recommandée : commencer par les services les moins complexes, investir massivement dans les tests automatisés À la 14e migration, le processus était si rodé qu'il allait plus vite que la toute première tentative OpenJDK Interim Policy on Generative AI - https://openjdk.org/legal/ai OpenJDK adopte une politique intérimaire interdisant toute contribution incluant du contenu généré par des LLMs, modèles de diffusion ou systèmes deep-learning Le périmètre est large : code source, texte, images dans les dépôts Git, pull requests GitHub, emails, pages wiki et issues JBS Les contributeurs peuvent utiliser les outils d'IA de manière privée pour comprendre, déboguer et relire le code OpenJDK, mais ne peuvent pas contribuer le contenu généré Trois risques justifient cette politique : surcharge des relecteurs face au code plausible mais incorrect, risques de sûreté/sécurité pour une plateforme critique, et risques de propriété intellectuelle (l'OCA exige que les contributeurs possèdent les droits IP de leurs contributions) Même éditer partiellement du code AI-généré ne le rend pas acceptable à la contribution Oracle, sponsor corporatif d'OpenJDK, travaille sur une politique complète à soumettre au Governing Board GraalVM Native Image et la Closed-World Assumption en Java https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/java/1357/ Un bon article de rappel du contexte de closed world en Java GraalVM Native Image compile les applications Java en exécutables natifs statiques, sans JVM au runtime. La JVM fonctionne en monde ouvert : les classes sont chargées à la demande, les appels sont des références symboliques résolues dynamiquement. Native Image impose la "closed-world assumption" : tous les chemins d'exécution doivent être connus à la compilation. Les fonctionnalités dynamiques Java (réflexion, proxies, chargement de classes) créent des chemins cachés invisibles à l'analyse statique. C'est pourquoi Native Image exige des fichiers de configuration explicites pour la réflexion, les proxies, les ressources et la FFM API. L'article illustre le problème avec la Foreign Function & Memory API pour appeler printf natif : fonctionne sur JVM, échoue en Native Image sans config. Inclure tout le bytecode accessible serait inutilisable : binaire géant, compilation très lente, et la réflexion nécessite des métadonnées précises. La configuration n'est pas un défaut de conception mais une conséquence logique du passage du dynamique au statique. Java 26 : les nouveautés https://foojay.io/today/java-26-whats-new/ Java est le langage de la JVM, publié tous les 6 mois depuis Java 9 ; Java 26 est une version non-LTS avec 10 JEPs. JEP 500 : protection des champs final modifiés par réflexion profonde, avec des avertissements configurables. JEP 504 : suppression définitive de l'API Applet, plus supportée par les navigateurs. JEP 516 : le cache AOT (Project Leyden) fonctionne désormais avec n'importe quel garbage collector. JEP 517 : support HTTP/3 dans le client HTTP, HTTP/2 reste le défaut mais HTTP/3 est accessible à la demande. JEP 522 : amélioration du débit du GC G1 en réduisant la synchronisation entre threads applicatifs et threads GC. Nouveau support des UUIDv7 via UUID.ofEpochMillis(), naturellement triables et adaptés aux identifiants de bases de données. Process devient AutoCloseable, utilisable dans un try-with-resources. Aucune fonctionnalité en preview n'est graduée en standard ; Structured Concurrency en est à sa 6e preview. Librairies Guillaume a créé une petite librairie Java sans dépendance pour extraire le JSON d'une réponse d'un LLM un peu verbeux https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/03/22/extracting-json-from-llm-chatter-with-jsonspotter/ Les LLM génèrent souvent du JSON, mais il est parfois entouré de bla-bla et/ou contient des erreurs (ex: commentaires, virgules finales) qui bloquent les parseurs JSON standards. Guillaume a créé une petite librairie légère sans dépendance pour localiser et extraire la structure la plus longue ressemblant à du JSON (même malformé) On peut ensuite passé cette chaîne à un parseur "lénient" (plus tolérant) comme Jackson pour ensuite avoir de bons vieux objets Java fortement typés Librairie dispo sur Maven Central ADK Java sort sa version 1.0 (Agent Development Kit par Google) https://developers.googleblog.com/announcing-adk-for-java-100-building-the-future-of-ai-agents-in-java/ ADK est un framework open source de Google pour créer des agents IA, initialement en Python, maintenant multi-langages (Python, Java, Go, Typescript). Nouvelles fonctionnalités majeures : Outils puissants : GoogleMapsTool, UrlContextTool, ContainerCodeExecutor, VertexAiCodeExecutor, abstraction ComputerUseTool. Architecture de plugins centralisée : Nouveau conteneur App pour gérer les Plugins à l'échelle de l'application (ex: LoggingPlugin, GlobalInstructionPlugin). Context engineering amélioré : Compaction d'événements pour gérer la taille des fenêtres de contexte (résumé et rétention). Human-in-the-Loop (HITL) : Supporte les workflows ToolConfirmation pour approbation humaine des actions d'agent. Services de session et de mémoire : Contrats clairs pour la gestion de l'état (InMemory, VertexAI, Firestore) et la mémoire à long terme. Support Agent2Agent (A2A) : Collaboration native entre agents distants de différents frameworks via le protocole A2A. Dans cet autre article, Guillaume partage comment il a développé l'application Comic Trip montrée dans la vidéo YouTube et qui utilise ADK 1.0 https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/03/30/building-my-comic-trip-agent-with-adk-java-1-0/ Nouvelle version du SDK Java pour Agent2Agent Protocol, avec le support de la version 1.0 de la spécification https://medium.com/google-cloud/a2a-java-sdk-1-0-0-beta1-released-e83c414b34cc Alignement avec la version 1.0 de la spécification Nouveau groupId org.a2aproject.sdk et package org.a2aproject.sdk Protocoles de transport : support complet et équivalent pour JSON-RPC, gRPC et HTTP+JSON/REST. Gestion des erreurs : introduction de codes d'erreur et détails structurés pour une meilleure observabilité. Optimisation HTTP : ajout d'en-têtes de cache pour les métadonnées des agents (Agent Card). Flexibilité du client HTTP : support par défaut du JDK HttpClient, avec option Vert.x pour les environnements Quarkus. Nouvelles fonctionnalités techniques : méthode DataPart.fromJson() pour la création simplifiée d'objets depuis du JSON brut. Prochaines étapes (v1.0.0.GA) : support simultané des versions 1.0.0 et 0.3.0 du protocole pour assurer l'interopérabilité. JPA 4.0 Milestone 2 : nouvelles fonctionnalités pour Jakarta Persistence https://in.relation.to/2026/04/23/JPA-4-M2/ Jakarta Persistence (JPA) est la spécification standard Java pour le mapping objet-relationnel (ORM), implémentée notamment par Hibernate. JPA 4.0 M2 est la deuxième milestone de la prochaine version majeure de la spécification, annoncée par Gavin King. Construction de requêtes Criteria à partir de chaînes JPQL, offrant plus de flexibilité dans la composition dynamique des requêtes. Nouveaux types d'expressions spécialisés (TextExpression, NumericExpression) pour simplifier l'écriture des requêtes Criteria. Nouvelle interface FetchOption pour contrôler explicitement la stratégie de chargement des associations, dont un BatchSize intégré. Nouvelle annotation @EntityListener qui découple les classes entités de leurs listeners, supprimant les dépendances à la compilation. Les listeners peuvent cibler plusieurs types de callbacks et s'appliquer globalement à toute l'unité de persistance. Introduction de FlushModeType.EXPLICIT et QueryFlushMode pour un contrôle plus fin de la synchronisation avec la base de données. La méta-annotation @Discoverable permet de placer des annotations comme @NamedQuery sur n'importe quelle classe ou interface. Améliorations du DDL via @Index amélioré et clarifications de la spécification via la javadoc. Quarkus 3.35 : tree-shaking, PGO et AOT Semeru https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-3-35-released/ Quarkus est un framework Java cloud-natif optimisé pour GraalVM et HotSpot, conçu pour les microservices et les environnements conteneurisés. Nouveau JAR tree-shaking expérimental : analyse des dépendances à la compilation pour supprimer les classes inutilisées. Sur le CLI Quarkus, cela supprime plus de 6 000 classes et économise environ 18 Mo (39,5 %). Support du Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO) pour les builds natifs via quarkus.native.pgo.enabled=true. Le PGO est une fonctionnalité Oracle GraalVM, non disponible dans la Community Edition. Support de l'AOT IBM Semeru : le démarrage passe de ~380 ms à ~190 ms dans les premiers tests. Nouvelle extension quarkus-reactive-transactions : support de @Transactional pour les méthodes Hibernate Reactive retournant Uni. Configuration CORS dédiée pour l'interface de management, indépendante de l'interface HTTP principale. Les tests n'utilisent plus les System Properties pour la propagation de configuration, facilitant la parallélisation future. Le serializer jackson sans reflection n'est pas le default du aux retours de cas limites, encore du travail This Week in Spring - 21 avril 2026 https://spring.io/blog/2026/04/21/this-week-in-spring-april-21-2026 Spring Framework 6.2.18 et 7.0.7 corrigent trois failles de sécurité : DoS via fichiers multipart WebFlux, empoisonnement de cache de ressources statiques, et DoS sur Windows. Le support open source de Spring Framework 5.3.x et 6.1.x est terminé, la migration est recommandée. Spring Data 2026.0.0-RC1 introduit l'upsert (MERGE/INSERT ON CONFLICT) dans l'API Template de Spring Data Relational. Spring Data ajoute un RedisMessageSendingTemplate pour la cohérence avec les listeners Redis, et une optimisation de réinitialisation de caches en un seul appel. Spring AI introduit une Session API (série Agentic Patterns, partie 7) : architecture event-sourcée pour la mémoire des agents IA. La Session API supporte la compaction turn-safe, l'isolation de sous-agents en parallèle, et la persistence JDBC (PostgreSQL, MySQL, MariaDB, H2). Elle vise Spring AI 2.1 (novembre 2026) et remplacera à terme l'API ChatMemory. Spring Vault 4.1.0-RC1 et 4.0.2 sont disponibles. Netflix a présenté son usage de Java, Spring Boot et Spring AI dans une vidéo. This Week in Spring - 28 avril 2026 https://spring.io/blog/2026/04/28/this-week-in-spring-april-28-2026 Cette série hebdomadaire de Josh Long compile les nouveautés de l'écosystème Spring : articles, outils, podcasts et annonces de la communauté. Spring Boot 4 introduit un package natif de résilience org.springframework.resilience avec une nouvelle API de retry qui remplace les approches fragiles via Spring Retry ou Resilience4j. L'API retry native de Spring Boot 4 a des noms d'attributs et sémantiques différents des anciennes bibliothèques, rendant les tutoriels pré-2025 obsolètes et sources de bugs silencieux. Le SDK Spring AI pour Amazon Bedrock AgentCore est disponible en GA : il intègre les capacités AgentCore dans Spring AI via annotations et auto-configuration. Le SDK AgentCore gère automatiquement le contrat runtime AgentCore : endpoint /invocations, health check /ping, SSE avec backpressure. Il offre mémoire court terme (sliding window) et long terme (sémantique, préférences, résumé, épisodique), ainsi que des outils pour navigateur et exécution de code en sandbox. Un plugin Maven (Nullability Maven Plugin) simplifie l'intégration de JSpecify et NullAway pour enforcer la null-safety à la compilation dans les projets Java. Le plugin génère automatiquement les fichiers package-info.java par package et configure le compilateur pour traiter les violations de nullabilité comme des erreurs. Josh Long et Dr. Venkat Subramaniam ont co-présenté à Voxxed Days Amsterdam sur "Intelligent Kotlin", avec un épisode de podcast associé. Cloud Amazon S3 Files https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2026/04/amazon-s3-files/ Amazon S3 Files est un nouveau service donnant un accès système de fichiers direct aux données stockées dans les buckets S3 Basé sur la technologie Amazon EFS, il supprime la barrière entre stockage objet et interface système de fichiers sans dupliquer les données Débit en lecture pouvant atteindre plusieurs téraoctets par seconde ; des milliers de ressources de calcul peuvent y accéder simultanément Les données restent accessibles via les deux interfaces : S3 API classique et système de fichiers standard, sans migration nécessaire Cas d'usage : agents IA pour la persistance de mémoire entre pipelines, équipes ML sans staging, simplification des data lakes Disponible dans 34 régions AWS Data et Intelligence Artificielle Comment générer de la musique et des clips audio en Java avec le modèle Lyria 3 https://glaforge.dev/posts/2026/03/25/generating-music-with-lyria-3-and-the-gemini-interactions-java-sdk/ Génération musicale avec Lyria 3 (DeepMind) et le SDK Java Gemini Interactions. Lyria 3 : modèle d'IA générative pour créer musique avec paroles ou pistes instrumentales. Utilisation via le SDK Java de l'API Gemini, nécessite une clé API Gemini. Deux versions de modèle Lyria 3 : lyria-3-clip-preview : Clips courts (30s), extraits. lyria-3-pro-preview : Chansons complètes (jusqu'à 3 min), structurées. Personnalisation via les prompts : Fournir ses propres paroles ou les faire générer. Contrôler la structure de la chanson ([Intro], [Verse], [Chorus], [Outro]). Générer des morceaux instrumentaux uniquement. Utiliser des images comme source d'inspiration (modèle multimodal). Sortie : Audio (MP3) et texte (paroles/structure) directement, sans décodage complexe. Facilite l'intégration de la génération musicale dans les applications Java. Les world model, la prochaine étape pour les IA https://www.lepoint.fr/sciences-nature/comment-le-commando-de-yann-le-cun-se-prepare-a-ringardiser-les-geants-mondiaux-de-lia-depuis-paris-OZVUWTDYBNE25C6WF44265ZQKE/ Yann LeCun a quitté Meta FAIR pour créer AMI Labs (Advanced Machine Intelligence) basée à Paris Sa thèse : les LLMs ne mèneront pas à l'intelligence générale, la vraie IA doit partir de la compréhension du monde physique AMI Labs a levé 1,03 milliard de dollars en seed (le plus grand seed round de l'histoire européenne) à 3,5 milliards de valorisation Les world models apprennent à prédire et comprendre la réalité physique plutôt qu'à prédire le prochain token d'une séquence Slogan d'AMI : "Real intelligence does not start in language. It starts in the world." Paris comme base stratégique pour challenger la Silicon Valley dans la prochaine rupture de l'IA Debezium 2026 : résultats du sondage communautaire https://debezium.io/blog/2026/04/27/debezium-2026-survey-results/ Debezium est un outil de Change Data Capture (CDC) open source qui capture les modifications de bases de données en temps réel pour les diffuser vers des systèmes comme Kafka. 98,6% des répondants utilisent Debezium activement ou prévoient de le faire dans l'année, avec 91,3% déjà en production. 63,8% des déploiements tournent sur Kubernetes, 60,9% utilisent Kafka Connect auto-géré, et 17,4% restent sur des VMs ou bare metal. Helm charts est l'approche dominante pour la gestion de configuration, souvent combiné avec GitOps, CI/CD, Ansible ou Terraform. PostgreSQL domine les connecteurs utilisés à 69,6%, suivi de MySQL (33,3%), SQL Server (29%) et Oracle (27,5%). Les volumes de changements capturés vont de 1-25 modifications par minute jusqu'à 1-2 millions par minute selon les environnements. Infinispan rejoint l'écosystème OGX comme fournisseur de stockage vectoriel https://infinispan.org/blog/2026/04/17/infinispan-joins-ogx-ecosystem OGX (anciennement Llama Stack) est un serveur API agentique open source pour construire des applications d'IA complètes. OGX compose des fournisseurs d'inférence, des stores vectoriels, des backends de sécurité, des runtimes d'outils et du stockage de fichiers en un seul serveur déployable. OGX se positionne comme une alternative à l'API OpenAI, déployable sur diverses infrastructures et modèles. OGX cible les workflows RAG (Retrieval-Augmented Generation) et les applications agentiques. Infinispan s'y intègre comme fournisseur de vector IO, apportant recherche vectorielle, par mots-clés et hybride. Je n'ai pas entendu parlé de ce renommage, vous le voyez dans vos deploiements ? Outillage cmux un nouveau terminal basé sur Ghostty spécialisé pour les coding agents https://cmux.com/ Application macOS native construite sur le moteur de rendu Ghostty (libghostty), offrant une accélération GPU pour une fluidité maximale Conçu spécifiquement pour le multitâche et les workflows assistés par IA, avec des onglets verticaux affichant la branche Git, le répertoire et les ports actifs Intègre des notifications qui illuminent les panneaux lorsqu'un agent IA (Claude Code, Codex, etc.) nécessite l'attention de l'utilisateur Propose un navigateur web intégré et scriptable qui peut être affiché en écran scindé à côté du terminal via une API Alternative moderne à tmux, ne nécessitant pas de fichiers de configuration complexes ou de préfixes de touches pour la gestion des vitres et des sessions Supporte nativement tous les agents de codage en ligne de commande et permet l'automatisation via une API socket et une interface CLI dédiée Git Worktree comme un chef https://www.metal3d.org/blog/2026/git-worktree-comme-un-chef/ Article par Patrice Ferlet Git Worktree: Travailler sur plusieurs branches simultanément via des répertoires distincts. Évite git stash ou clones multiples pour le changement de contexte rapide. Méthode "bare" (recommandée): Cloner le dépôt en mode bare (ex: .bare). Lier le dossier racine au dépôt bare via un fichier .git. Configurer le remote tracking pour voir toutes les branches distantes. Ajouter des worktrees pour chaque branche (git worktree add ). Avantages: Économie d'espace, source de vérité unique (un git fetch met tout à jour), hooks/configs partagés, sécurité. Conseils: Ne jamais faire de git checkout à l'intérieur d'un worktree. git fetch --all depuis n'importe quel worktree pour tout mettre à jour. git worktree add --detach pour tester des merges temporaires sans créer de branche. Supprimer: git worktree remove puis git worktree prune. Un script wtree est fourni pour automatiser l'initialisation du setup "bare". Améliore considérablement le workflow. L'IDE meurt et vite https://x.com/jdegoes/status/2036931874057314390?s=46&t=C18cckWlfukmsB_Fx0FfxQ Des leaders techniques prédisent la fin rapide de l'IDE traditionnel, remplacé par des interfaces conversationnelles agentiques Le changement de paradigme : le développeur n'écrit plus des lignes de code mais exprime son intention et supervise des agents autonomes Des outils comme Claude Code, Copilot et Cursor transforment déjà radicalement les workflows de développement quotidiens L'IDE centré sur l'éditeur de code perd sa raison d'être quand l'agent lit, modifie et structure le code de manière autonome La transition est comparable au passage du desktop au mobile : les pratiques établies depuis 30 ans remises en question en quelques mois Le source de Claude Code a leaké via probablement le codemap et un site decrit sont fonctionnement https://ccunpacked.dev/ Le 31 mars 2026, Anthropic a accidentellement inclus les sourcemaps dans un package npm de Claude Code, exposant ~512 000 lignes de TypeScript La fuite n'était pas un piratage mais une erreur humaine : un "*.map" oublié dans .npmignore Le site ccunpacked.dev a été lancé pour analyser et visualiser le code source décompressé Le code révèle un agent background permanent nommé "KAIROS", un mode furtif pour cacher les contributions des employés Anthropic à l'open source, et 44 feature flags cachés Une fonctionnalité inédite "Buddy" (animal de compagnie électronique dans le terminal) et un mode "dream" pour l'idéation continue ont été découverts Anthropic a confirmé : "Aucune donnée client sensible n'était impliquée. Erreur humaine dans le packaging de la release." Gemini CLI passe aux agents https://x.com/srithreepo/status/2039794081925382307?s=46&t=GLj1NFxZoCFCjw2oYpiJpw Gemini CLI, l'agent IA open source de Google pour le terminal, introduit des hooks dans sa boucle agentique Les hooks permettent d'exécuter des scripts automatiquement (scanners de sécurité, vérifications de conformité, logging) à chaque étape de l'agent Lancement de Gemini CLI GitHub Actions : un agent autonome pour les repositories qui peut exécuter des tâches de codage de routine Support des MCP servers pour étendre les capacités et des "Agent Skills" pour des workflows spécialisés Mode agent disponible dans VS Code et IntelliJ avec accès aux outils du système de fichiers et terminal Wispr, le speech to text en local sur macOS http://wispr.stormacq.com/ Wispr est une application macOS de dictée vocale entièrement locale, propulsée par Whisper (OpenAI) sur appareil, sans cloud ni tracking Sébastien Stormacq a développé Wispr en un jour et demi sans écrire une seule ligne de code, grâce à Kiro CLI (agent IA Amazon) Disponible en open source sur GitHub et via Homebrew Détection automatique de la langue, insertion du texte au curseur dans n'importe quelle application via un raccourci global En un mois : 19 releases incluant mode mains-libres, suppression des mots de remplissage, auto-envoi pour les chats, et un outil CLI Exemple concret de développement vibe coding produisant un outil de qualité production sans expertise Swift préalable Comment, Gordon, l'assistant spécialisé en Docker est né https://n9o.xyz/posts/202603-building-gordon/ Nuno Coração (n9o.xyz) détaille comment Gordon, l'assistant spécialisé Docker, a été construit sur docker-agent, le runtime d'agents IA open source de Docker écrit en Go Les agents sont définis en YAML déclaratif et distribués comme des artefacts OCI, sans mise à jour binaire nécessaire L'architecture initiale en essaim de 9 agents spécialisés a été abandonnée au profit d'un agent racine unique avec un prompt soigneusement conçu Le modèle utilisé est Claude Haiku 4.5, suffisant après optimisation des prompts Principe clé "show, then do" : toute action de l'agent nécessite une approbation explicite de l'utilisateur La description des outils impacte fortement la précision du LLM : ajouter des outils peut paradoxalement dégrader les performances existantes Le prompt est une spécification détaillée (identité, patterns d'accès fichiers, règles de sécurité) plutôt qu'une simple instruction IBM Bob https://bob.ibm.com/blog/announcing-ibm-bob-launch IBM Bob assistant IA d'IBM pour coder sur de vraies codebases (lancé avril 2026) 5 modes : Ask, Plan, Code, Advanced (MCP), Orchestrator Détecte la complexité du code en temps réel et propose des refactos Fait des revues de code automatiques sur tes branches/issues GitHub Permet d'écrire en langage naturel directement dans l'éditeur Fonctionne aussi en terminal/CLI et dans les pipelines CI/CD Sécurité : approbation manuelle, .bobignore, checkpoints, pas de training sur tes prompts How I use Claude - 50 tips pratiques https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZzhfPle9QU Staff Engineer Meta partage 50 tips après 6 mois d'utilisation intensive de Claude Code Basé sur ~12h/jour d'usage perso et professionnel Couvre tout : bases, workflows avancés, parallélisation Objectif : partager ce qu'il aurait voulu savoir dès le départ Méthodologies Quelqu'un rale sur la non soutenabilité des bases de code écritent avec des agents https://mariozechner.at/posts/2026-03-25-thoughts-on-slowing-the-fuck-down/ Mario Zechner estime que les agents IA font les mêmes erreurs répétitivement sans apprendre, accumulant la complexité à grande vitesse faute de bottlenecks humains Sans vision globale, les agents créent du cargo-cult : les "best practices" de l'industrie appliquées localement sans cohérence architecturale La croissance de la base de code dégrade la capacité des agents à retrouver le code existant → duplication et incohérences croissantes Il cite des pannes AWS et des initiatives qualité Microsoft comme signes préoccupants liés au code généré par IA Solution : réserver les agents aux tâches délimitées et évaluables, garder l'architecture, les APIs et les systèmes critiques écrits à la main Maintenir une revue de code rigoureuse et traiter les humains comme les gardiens finaux de la qualité On m'oblige à utiliser l'IA https://n.survol.fr/n/on-moblige-a-utiliser-lia Éric D. défend l'adoption obligatoire de l'IA comme décision stratégique légitime, comparable au choix du full remote ou de la stack technique Il distingue la décision stratégique (adoption IA) de la méthode d'accompagnement (qui reste collaborative et bienveillante) La compétence IA devient un critère de recrutement : chercher des candidats déjà curieux et explorateurs de ces outils L'alignement culturel sur les pratiques et outils est un prérequis à la cohésion d'équipe Le refus d'adopter certains outils stratégiques peut justifier de ne pas recruter un candidat autrement compétent Encore une metodo SPDD https://martinfowler.com/articles/structured-prompt-driven/ Problème : l'IA accélère le dev individuel mais amplifie ambiguïtés et incohérences à l'échelle d'une équipe. martinfowler SPDD : traiter les prompts comme des artefacts versionnés, révisables et réutilisables plutôt que des échanges jetables. martinfowler Canvas REASONS : 7 dimensions (Requirements, Entities, Approach, Structure, Operations, Norms, Safeguards) pour guider le LLM de l'intention à l'exécution. martinfowler Workflow en 6 étapes : exigences → analyse → contexte → prompt structuré → code → tests unitaires, chaque étape s'appuyant sur la précédente. martinfowler 3 compétences clés : abstraction d'abord, alignement de l'intention, revue itérative. martinfowler Limites : fort ROI sur du code métier complexe, peu adapté aux hotfixes urgents, scripts jetables ou travail créatif/visuel. m Sécurité Le projet Glasswing pour sécuriser les logiciels https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing Anthropic lance Glasswing, une initiative de cybersécurité utilisant Claude Mythos Preview pour identifier des vulnérabilités zero-day 12 partenaires fondateurs dont AWS, Apple, Cisco, CrowdStrike, Google, JPMorganChase, Linux Foundation, Microsoft et NVIDIA Anthropic investit 100 millions de dollars en crédits de modèle et 4 millions en dons aux organisations de sécurité open source Le modèle opère avec une autonomie substantielle, identifiant des milliers de vulnérabilités dans les OS, navigateurs et infrastructures critiques Plus de 40 organisations supplémentaires ont accès pour scanner et sécuriser leurs systèmes Objectif : donner l'avantage aux défenseurs avant que les techniques de hacking assistées par IA ne se généralisent chez les attaquants LinkedIn vous espionne https://frenchbreaches.com/blog/linkedin-est-accuse-de-fouiller-dans-votre-ordinateur-illegalement Scandale "BrowserGate" : LinkedIn injecte du JavaScript qui tente de détecter les extensions Chrome installées sur votre navigateur Le script analysé contient une liste codée en dur de 6 222 extensions Chrome avec identifiants et chemins de fichiers internes Croissance alarmante de la liste ciblée : 38 extensions en 2017 → 461 en 2024 → ~1 000 en mai 2025 → 6 222 début 2026 Les données collectées incluent aussi CPU, RAM, résolution d'écran, timezone et état batterie pour du fingerprinting Certaines extensions ciblées sont liées à la neurodivergence, aux pratiques religieuses ou aux opinions politiques → violation grave du RGPD LinkedIn défend que le scan vise uniquement à détecter les extensions qui pratiquent le scraping de données Post mortem de la supply chain attack sur la librairie NPM axios https://github.com/axios/axios/issues/10636 Le 31 mars 2026, deux versions malveillantes d'axios (1.14.1 et 0.30.4) ont été publiées via un compte mainteneur compromis Vecteur d'attaque : RAT installé via ingénierie sociale ciblée sur la machine personnelle du mainteneur principal La 2FA ne protège pas si la machine de l'utilisateur est compromise : l'attaquant contrôle tout et peut agir comme l'utilisateur Les packages malveillants injectaient plain-crypto-js@4.2.1, un cheval de Troie multi-plateforme (macOS, Windows, Linux) Détection communautaire en ~3 heures, suppression par npm, mesures correctives : rotation complète des credentials Changements préventifs : publication via OIDC, releases immuables, amélioration des pratiques GitHub Actions Passbolt un gestionnaire de mots de passe open source https://lesjoiesducode.fr/passbolt-gestionnaire-de-mots-de-passe-gratuit-open-source-que-votre-equipe-merite-vraiment Gestionnaire de mots de passe open source conçu pour le partage d'identifiants en équipe, utilisé par plus de 50 000 organisations Chiffrement individuel par utilisateur et par version de credential, pas de coffre-fort partagé — architecture zero-knowledge "Forward secrecy" : quand un membre quitte l'équipe, ses copies chiffrées sont automatiquement révoquées sans reset manuel Supporte TOTP, clés SSH, tokens API et champs personnalisés avec piste d'audit complète de tous les accès Édition communautaire entièrement gratuite avec utilisateurs illimités, auto-hébergeable ou cloud Chiffrement OpenPGP nécessitant passphrase + clé privée, avec tokens visuels anti-phishing Loi, société et organisation Anthropic fait un don d'1,5 millions de dollars à la fondation Apache https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-software-foundation-announces-1-5m-donation-from-anthropic Anthropic donne 1,5 million de dollars à l'ASF pour soutenir l'infrastructure, la sécurité et la communauté open source Vitaly Gudanets (CISO d'Anthropic) : "Soutenir l'ASF est un investissement direct dans la résilience et l'intégrité des systèmes dont dépend l'IA moderne" Les fonds financeront les systèmes de build, les processus de sécurité et les services aux projets Apache Ce don est le déclencheur de l'initiative IA responsable à 10 millions de dollars de l'ASF L'infrastructure Apache est invisible mais critique : des systèmes financiers aux plateformes de santé, elle sous-tend l'écosystème logiciel mondial L'ASF lance l'initiative IA responsable https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-software-foundation-launches-10m-responsible-ai-initiative-with-initial-1-75m-donation L'ASF lance une initiative pour une IA responsable dotée d'un budget de 10 millions de dollars sur 3 ans minimum Anthropic est le premier donateur avec 1,5 million de dollars ; Alpha-Omega contribue 250 000 dollars L'initiative fournit aux projets Apache un accès à des modèles IA pour l'expérimentation et la sécurité Elle soutient l'ensemble de la chaîne IA/ML : pipelines de données, infrastructure, frameworks de deep learning Des tracks de conférences, hackathons et bourses de voyage sont prévus pour élargir la communauté Les principes directeurs incluent la supervision humaine, l'intégrité des licences et la sécurité open source Oracle vire 30000 personnes https://rollingout.com/2026/03/31/oracle-slashes-30000-jobs-with-a-cold-6/ Oracle licencie 20 000 à 30 000 employés, 18% de ses effectifs mondiaux. Les salariés ont appris leur licenciement par un simple email à 6h du matin, sans aucun préavis. L'accès à tous les systèmes (Slack, Zoom, badges) a été coupé immédiatement après. But : libérer 8 à 10 milliards de dollars pour construire des centres de données IA. Oracle a déjà contracté 50 milliards de dettes en 2026 pour financer ses projets IA. Paradoxe : l'entreprise affiche un bénéfice record de 6,13 milliards, mais ses liquidités sont dans le rouge. L'action Oracle a perdu plus de la moitié de sa valeur depuis septembre 2025. Et si l'IA n'était qu'un prétexte pour licencier https://eventuallycoding.com/p/ia-licenciements-et-si-l-intelligence-artificielle-n-etait-qu-une-excuse Hugo Lassiège (eventuallycoding) estime que les entreprises utilisent l'IA comme narratif commode pour masquer des erreurs de gestion passées (Block a triplé ses effectifs post-COVID sans croissance des revenus correspondante) Moins de 1% des licenciements technologiques seraient réellement dus à des gains de productivité IA selon les analyses citées Mesurer la productivité des développeurs reste un problème non résolu, mais les entreprises affirment des gains d'efficacité sans preuves Des pressions économiques réelles (inflation, guerres commerciales, coûts énergétiques) sont masquées derrière le discours IA Les restructurations nécessaires sont présentées comme des transformations AI-driven positives pour rassurer les investisseurs Il y voit une fenêtre d'opportunité pour l'Europe pendant que les géants américains se restructurent GitHub Copilot va utiliser les interacitons pour entrainer ses modèles sauf si vous vous délistez https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/updates-to-github-copilot-interaction-data-usage-policy/ À partir du 24 avril 2026, GitHub utilise par défaut les interactions des utilisateurs Copilot Free, Pro et Pro+ pour entraîner ses modèles Les données collectées incluent le code accepté ou modifié, les snippets envoyés, les noms de fichiers et structures de dépôts, et les retours utilisateurs Les utilisateurs Copilot Business, Enterprise et les dépôts d'entreprise sont exclus de cette collecte de données d'entraînement Opt-out disponible dans les paramètres GitHub > "Privacy" ; les préférences de désactivation préalables sont conservées automatiquement Objectif déclaré : améliorer la précision des modèles sur les langages et cas d'usage du monde réel Grosse percée de Claude Code dans les commits sur GitHub https://aifoc.us/damn-claude-thats-a-lot-of-commits/ Explosion de Claude Code : En six mois, Claude Code est passé de 0,7 % à 4,5 % de tous les commits publics sur GitHub, surpassant tous les autres outils d'IA combinés. Adoption massive des agents IA : Environ 5 % des commits publics sur GitHub sont désormais générés par des agents IA, un chiffre en croissance rapide depuis fin 2025. Domination des bots sur GitHub : Au-delà des commits, les outils d'IA sont omniprésents dans la gestion des pull requests et des problèmes (Copilot et CodeRabbit notamment). Limites méthodologiques : Les données ne concernent que les dépôts publics (les entreprises utilisent massivement des dépôts privés, invisibles ici). Le comptage dépend fortement de la visibilité des signatures (certains outils comme Claude marquent systématiquement leurs commits, d'autres non) L'API de recherche GitHub présente une fiabilité variable à cette échelle. Changement de paradigme : Le développement logiciel vit une transition majeure, comparable au passage du desktop au mobile. L'intégration des agents IA dans le cycle de production n'est plus une expérimentation, mais une réalité opérationnelle à grande échelle. Dysmaths une application pour aider à apprendre les mathématiques et la géométrie lorsque l'on souffre de dyspraxie, dysgraphie https://dysmaths.com/ Application web pour aider les élèves de collège et lycée souffrant de dysgraphie et dyspraxie à faire des maths et de la géométrie Outils de dessin à main levée, géométrie précise (compas, rapporteur, règle) et opérations structurées (fractions, racines, puissances, symboles mathématiques) Export PDF et PNG avec conservation fidèle de l'échelle pour l'impression et la soumission des exercices Options d'accessibilité : police OpenDyslexic, personnalisations d'interface, import d'images et de PDFs Répond à un besoin réel : les outils standards ne sont pas adaptés aux difficultés de coordination et d'organisation spatiale en mathématiques IA ou réalité ? Par Amistory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPYdAhBBF2I L'IA génère des contenus (images, voix, vidéos) de plus en plus indétectables Les arnaques au clonage de voix et deepfakes sont en forte hausse Les faux contenus viraux manipulent l'opinion à grande échelle Le faux n'est plus un accident, c'est devenu un système organisé La société entre dans une ère de doute généralisé sur le réel Comment s'informer quand le réel lui-même peut être simulé ? Conférences La liste des conférences provenant de Developers Conferences Agenda/List par Aurélie Vache et contributeurs : 6-7 mai 2026 : Devoxx UK 2026 - London (UK) 12 mai 2026 : Lead Innovation Day - Leadership Edition - Paris (France) 12-13 mai 2026 : Lyon Craft - Lyon (France) 19 mai 2026 : La Product Conf Paris 2026 - Paris (France) 19-20 mai 2026 : Green Code Challenge - Paris (France) 21-22 mai 2026 : Flupa UX Days 2026 - Paris (France) 22 mai 2026 : AFUP Day 2026 Lille - Lille (France) 22 mai 2026 : AFUP Day 2026 Paris - Paris (France) 22 mai 2026 : AFUP Day 2026 Bordeaux - Bordeaux (France) 22 mai 2026 : AFUP Day 2026 Lyon - Lyon (France) 27 mai 2026 : aMP Day Strasbourg 2026 - Strasbourg (France) 28 mai 2026 : DevCon 27 : I.A. & Vibe Coding - Paris (France) 28 mai 2026 : Cloud Toulouse 2026 - Toulouse (France) 29 mai 2026 : NG Baguette Conf 2026 - Paris (France) 29 mai 2026 : Agile Tour Strasbourg 2026 - Strasbourg (France) 2-3 juin 2026 : Agile Tour Rennes 2026 - Rennes (France) 2-3 juin 2026 : OW2Con - Paris-Châtillon (France) 3 juin 2026 : IA–NA - La Rochelle (France) 4 juin 2026 : Workplace Intelligence Days - 1ère édition - Lyon (France) 5 juin 2026 : TechReady - Nantes (France) 5 juin 2026 : Fork it! - Rouen - Rouen (France) 6 juin 2026 : Polycloud - Montpellier (France) 9 juin 2026 : JFTL - Montrouge (France) 9 juin 2026 : C: - Caen (France) 9 juin 2026 : France API 2026 - Paris (France) 11-12 juin 2026 : DevQuest Niort - Niort (France) 11-12 juin 2026 : DevLille 2026 - Lille (France) 12 juin 2026 : Tech F'Est 2026 - Nancy (France) 15 juin 2026 : Jupyter Workshops: Demystifying MyST Markdown in Education - Orsay (France) 16 juin 2026 : Mobilis In Mobile 2026 - Nantes (France) 17-19 juin 2026 : Devoxx Poland - Krakow (Poland) 17-20 juin 2026 : VivaTech - Paris (France) 18 juin 2026 : Tech'Work - Lyon (France) 22-26 juin 2026 : Galaxy Community Conference - Clermont-Ferrand (France) 23-24 juin 2026 : MWCP 2026 - Paris (France) 24-25 juin 2026 : Agi'Lille 2026 - Lille (France) 24-26 juin 2026 : BreizhCamp 2026 - Rennes (France) 25-26 juin 2026 : Agile Tour Toulouse 2026 - Toulouse (France) 27 juin 2026 : Asynconf - Paris (France) 2 juillet 2026 : Azur Tech Summer 2026 - Valbonne (France) 2-3 juillet 2026 : Sunny Tech - Montpellier (France) 3 juillet 2026 : Agile Lyon 2026 - Lyon (France) 6-8 juillet 2026 : Riviera Dev - Sophia Antipolis (France) 28-30 août 2026 : State of the Map - Champs-sur-Marne (France) 4 septembre 2026 : JUG Summer Camp 2026 - La Rochelle (France) 10-11 septembre 2026 : Nantes Craft - Nantes (France) 17 septembre 2026 : dotAI - Paris (France) 17-18 septembre 2026 : API Platform Conference 2026 - Lille (France) 18 septembre 2026 : dotJS - Paris (France) 18 septembre 2026 : WordCamp Bretagne - Rennes (France) 22 septembre 2026 : Salon Data 2026 - Nantes (France) 22-23 septembre 2026 : Agile en Seine & IA 2026 - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : OWASP AppSec Days France 2026 - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : PlatformCon Paris - Paris (France) 24 septembre 2026 : React Native Connection 2026 - Paris (France) 24-26 septembre 2026 : Paris Web 2026 - Paris (France) 28-29 septembre 2026 : 4th Tech Summit on AI & Robotics - Paris (France) & Online 1 octobre 2026 : WAX 2026 - Marseille (France) 1-2 octobre 2026 : Volcamp - Clermont-Ferrand (France) 2 octobre 2026 : DevFest Perros-Guirec 2026 - Perros-Guirec (France) 5-9 octobre 2026 : Devoxx Belgium - Antwerp (Belgium) 12 octobre 2026 : Dev With AI - Paris (France) 27-29 octobre 2026 : Directions EMEA 2026 - Paris (France) 29-30 octobre 2026 : BDX I/O 2026 - Bordeaux (France) 30 octobre 2026 : Cloud Nord 2026 - Lille (France) 4-5 novembre 2026 : Devoxx Morocco - Casablanca (Morocco) 14-15 novembre 2026 : Capitole du Libre - Toulouse (France) 19 novembre 2026 : DevFest Toulouse 2026 - Toulouse (France) 27 novembre 2026 : DevFest Paris 2026 - Paris (France) 1-3 décembre 2026 : Apidays Paris - Paris (France) 4 décembre 2026 : DevFest Lyon 2026 - Lyon (France) 4 décembre 2026 : DevFest Dijon 2026 - Dijon (France) 9-10 décembre 2026 : OpenSource Expérience - Paris (France) 9-10 décembre 2026 : DevOps REX - Paris (France) 10 décembre 2026 : KCD Provence - Aix-en-Provence (France) 7-9 avril 2027 : Devoxx France 2027 - Paris (France) Nous contacter Pour réagir à cet épisode, venez discuter sur le groupe Google https://groups.google.com/group/lescastcodeurs Contactez-nous via X/twitter https://twitter.com/lescastcodeurs ou Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/lescastcodeurs.com Faire un crowdcast ou une crowdquestion Soutenez Les Cast Codeurs sur Patreon https://www.patreon.com/LesCastCodeurs Tous les épisodes et toutes les infos sur https://lescastcodeurs.com/