Class Disrupted

In this end-of-season episode, Michael and Diane come together in person to reflect on the arc of their AI-focused sixth season. They discuss key themes and takeaways, including the enduring importance of foundational knowledge, skepticism around the speed and impact of AI-driven change within traditional schools, and how transformative innovation is more likely to emergeContinue reading "Artificial Intelligence in Human Learning: Risks, Opportunities, and What's Next"

Diane and Michael talk through what they’ve learned from their recent miniseries on AI in education. They discuss how AI offers unprecedented access to expertise, but also highlight concerns about its effectiveness for young learners. Throughout, Diane and Michael grapple with skepticism, optimism, and the practical challenges of embedding AI in educational systems, all whileContinue reading "Processing AI in Education Out Loud"

In this episode of Class Disrupted, hosts Michael Horn and Diane Tavenner chat with Rebecca Winthrop, a senior fellow and director at the Brookings Institution, about the impact of AI on education. The conversation kicks off by highlighting Rebecca’s idea of a premortem approach, which involves anticipating the negative impacts of AI before they occurContinue reading "The Premortem on AI in Education with Rebecca Winthrop"

In this episode, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn delve into the role of AI in writing education with Jane Rosenzweig, director of the Harvard College Writing Center. Jane underscores the importance of writing as a process of thinking and warns against the “deskilling” of students because of an overreliance on AI. The conversation explores howContinue reading "The Challenges AI Poses for Learning How to Write"

On this episode, Diane and Michael welcome guest Julia Freeland Fisher, a distinguished researcher from the Clayton Christensen Institute, whose work delves into the intersection of AI and education. The conversation explores the potential and challenges AI presents in the educational landscape. Julia shares her insights on the importance of using AI to enhance personalizedContinue reading "Needed: Real Experiences, Real People"

In this episode of Class Disrupted, Michael and Diane chat with Siya Raj Purohit, who works on education initiatives at OpenAI, about the transformative potential of AI in education. Siya shares her career journey and how it led her to focus on bridging the gap between education and workforce development. Highlighting the immense value ofContinue reading "How AI Could Lead to a Massive Productivity Boost in Education"

Techno-optimists have high hopes for how AI will improve learning. But what's the merit of the “bull case”, and what are the technology's risks? To think through those questions, Michael and Diane sit down with Ben Riley of Cognitive Resonance, a “think and do” tank dedicated to improving decisions using cognitive science. They evaluate theContinue reading "Why AI Doesn't Think Like Us"

On this episode, John Bailey, who advises on AI and innovation at a number of organizations, including the American Enterprise Institute, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and more, joins Michael and Diane. They discuss AI's potential to democratize access to expertise, weigh the costs and benefits of its efficiency-boosting applications, and consider how it will change skillsContinue reading "Democratizing Access to Expertise: AI in Education"

At the outset of an AI-themed season, our hosts take stock of their prior assumptions, hopes, and concerns about the technology's applications in education. They dive into where they see it being used to make adjustments to the current educational model and envision how it could be applied to revolutionize learning. Episode transcript:

As Diane and Michael launch a sixth season of Class Disrupted, they talk through Michael’s newest book, the bestseller Job Moves: 9 Steps for Making Progress in Your Career, and map its implications back to K12 schools and students through Diane’s startup, Futre.me. Episode transcript:

On their first ever summer episode, Michael and Diane are joined by David Yeager, psychology professor at University of Texas Austin and author of 10 to 25, a new book on youth development. They discuss lessons on healthy youth development tackled in his book, including the science of mentorship, importance of transparency, and strategies forContinue reading "What the Science Shows a Mentorship Mindset Can Do for Student Motivation"

Michael and Diane welcome Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., back to the show to discuss the world of education philanthropy. Stacey draws from her previous experience at New Schools Venture Fund and the Gates Foundation to analyze troubling trends in the sector. The three discuss what funders and operators can doContinue reading "Concerning Trends in Philanthropy for Education Reform"

Michael and Diane welcome back Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., for the second episode of a two-part series on the challenges facing K-12 education and promising strategies for addressing them. In this episode, each of them makes the case for one high-impact reform to address the challenges laid out in theContinue reading "Tackling All That K12 Schools Try to Do: The Solutions (Part 2)"

Michael and Diane welcome back Stacey Childress, Senior Education Advisor at McKinsey & Co., for the first of a two-part series on the challenges facing K-12 education and promising strategies for addressing them. In this episode, they outline the nine roles of K–12 education systems in the U.S. and the problems they face in playingContinue reading "Tackling All That K12 Schools Try to Do: The Challenges (Part 1)In Conversation on College: Weighing in on Two Investors’ Diagnoses and Proposals for Higher Ed Part II "

Stacey Childress, Senior Advisor on Education at McKinsey, joins Michael and Diane for the second episode of a two-part series weighing in on Marc Andreseen and Ben Horowitz's recent analysis of higher education. In this second episode, they react to the venture capitalists' proposed solutions for higher education. They evaluate the investors’ recommendations and addedContinue reading "In Conversation on College: Weighing in on Two Investors’ Diagnoses and Proposals for Higher Ed Part II "

Michael and Diane welcome Stacey Childress, Senior Advisor on Education at McKinsey, to the podcast for a two-part series weighing in on Marc Andreseen and Ben Horowitz's recent analysis of higher education. In this first episode, they react to the venture capitalists' diagnosis of the problems with higher education. They give their vote of whereContinue reading "In Conversation on College: Weighing in on Two Investors’ Diagnoses and Proposals for Higher Ed Part I"

Michael and Diane discuss why America's approach to math class isn't adding up. They analyze the outcomes produced under the status quo, consider the current system's alignment with workforce needs, and propose a personalized approach to teaching each student the math that is meaningful for their path. Episode transcript:

Michael and Diane sit down with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, a cognitive scientist, researcher, professor, and author focused on intelligence, creativity, and human potential. They discuss the importance of placing all students – not just those that are in gifted or special education programs – at the center of their learning. They also apply nuanceContinue reading "Providing a Human-Centered, Self-Actualizing Education to Every Student "

Diane discusses Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) with Antonio Saunders, co-founder of Kriseles, a DEI and Business Innovation services provider. The two consider the growing opposition to DEI in American politics and media, Antonio's innovative and unapologetically hopeful model for DEI, and their collaboration to leverage that model to drive change at Summit Schools. EpisodeContinue reading "The Future of DEI: A Humanity-, Freedom-, and Dreams-Based Approach"

Diane and Michael are joined by Ryan Craig, author of Apprentice Nation to discuss the earn-and-learn alternative to the traditional tuition-based higher education pathway. They address the current state of apprenticeship in the US, its role in an increasingly automated world, and how to incentivize the development and use of apprenticeship programs so they canContinue reading "Beyond ‘College or Bust': Apprenticeship as a Postsecondary Path to Opportunity"

Diane and Michael look back on the past three episodes of Class Disrupted's fifth season through the lens of disruption. They discuss the future of AI education tools; consider the opportunities and challenges as the Carnegie Foundation embarks on creating innovative new assessments with ETS; and highlight how Americans' ideas of a success are changingContinue reading "2023 in Review: AI, New Assessments, “The American Dream,” and More"

Timothy Knowles, President of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, joins Diane and Michael to discuss how this historic foundation looks to drive the future of American education. On K–12, they discuss why Carnegie has partnered with ETS and why they are seeking to assess a broader array of skills—not just focus onContinue reading "How America's Oldest Nonprofit Aims to Drive the Future of Education"

AI expert and Minerva University senior Irhum Shafkat joins Michael and Diane to discuss where AI has been, where it's going, and the rate at which it's moving. We also discuss the many forms the technology takes, its implications for humanity, and, of course, its applications in education – as told by a student. EpisodeContinue reading "A Student's View on the Challenges and Possibilities of AI in Education"

Todd Rose returns to share compelling findings about what Americans do and don’t want from their schools, institutions and lives. Spoiler alert! They are rejecting fame, fortune and higher ed as markers of success, and instead want community and financial security. Michael and Diane explore what this might mean for schools. Episode transcript:

Back for Season 5, Michael and Diane catch up on their summers and book reading, Diane's new entrepreneurial venture, PointB, the season ahead—and then offer some hot takes on the reading wars and Lucy Caulkins, four-year college-for-all, and education jargon. Episode transcript:

In their last episode of the season, Diane and Michael delve into the role fear and anxiety may be playing behind the community outbursts that have bedeviled so many school leaders. And they suggest a path forward that doesn’t seek to show why one side is wrong, but instead starts with deep listening and empathy.Continue reading "Season 4, Episode 18: Anxiety, Fear, and the Importance of Listening"

Michael and Diane grapple with a concept that pushes their understandings of the test-and-learn approach in education innovation and see the beauty of embracing a child-like approach to learning and exploring boundaries to understand where new ideas work—and maybe more importantly, where they break. Episode transcript:

Michael and Diane talk about one of the biggest things to come out of the pandemic: the groundswell movement from parents and others to finally teach children how to read in line with the best evidence from the science of reading. And they express misgivings of whether a legislative approach that bans certain teaching approachesContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 16: Is Legislation the Best Way to Finish the ‘Reading Wars’?"

In the aftermath of horrific school shootings across the country, schools have instituted a range of security measures. Diane and Michael argue that these steps likely have a cost in eroding mental health, which may further contribute to violence in schools and society. The point isn’t that schools shouldn’t “harden” per se, but that theseContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 15: How Hardening Schools Could Harm Students"

With declining enrollment becoming a staple in American higher education and more students and families souring on the expense of a college education, Diane points out that this can an opportunity—and then puts Michael to the entrepreneurial test in designing what a college alternative might look like. Episode transcript:

As Diane Tavenner prepares to step down from 20 years of founding and leading Summit Public Schools, she shares some of her lessons from which educators, policymakers, and parents can all learn. Hint: It’s all about the students. Episode transcript:

All too often money is a taboo subject in schools—or at least any discussion that doesn’t talk about how schools need more of it. In this episode, Diane and Michael think through how that limits innovation on behalf of students and what could change the culture and actions of schools around this subject. Episode transcript:

Diane updates Michael on the latest progress on one of Summit’s pilots from this year and the two then delve into a discussion of how to bring the new innovation that’s working and scale it up inside the organization—and what to do about the old processes that are no longer needed. Episode transcript:

Back from their trips abroad, Michael and Diane reflect on what they saw in the countries and what that means for shaping educational opportunities for each and every child worldwide. Episode transcript:

Michael and Diane dig deep in analyzing the big acquisition of NWEA in the assessment market by Houghton-Mifflin Harcourt, one of the largest curriculum players in the United States. They conclude that we should be skeptical that the acquisition will improve teaching and learning for students or that it will pay off as much asContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 9: Shake Up in the Assessment Market"

In this episode, Diane reflects around why failure in life and schools is hard—and she and Michael dissect why it’s nevertheless important. Diane shares how, after a set of tests don’t work as planned, her schools then chart a pivot to a new direction. Episode transcript:

Diane and Michael break down the latest frenzy around artificial intelligence and education. They explore if and how ChatGPT could be an innovation in education, what would make it innovative (hint: it’s not the technology!), and how it could be a useful tool in creating better learning experiences. Episode transcript:

Arguably the scarcest resource in schools is people. And people are imperative for doing a pilot and innovating well. In this episode of Class Disrupted, Diane Tavenner and Michael Horn delve into how to best use people when innovating and what are the key roles that you must fill to do a pilot well. EpisodeContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 6: How Do You Staff Innovation?"

Diane Tavenner shares with Michael Horn her excitement about a school visit she did recently in South Carolina to the Anderson Institute of Technology—which raises the question of why aren’t there more schools like what Diane saw? Episode transcript:

Schools typically have long laundry lists of all the pilots and innovations they want to do—if only they had the time and resources. Or they have laundry lists of improvement projects that are in the works—but then the execution suffers on all of them. How should a school choose which innovations and improvements to invest inContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 4: Which Pilots Should My School Try?"

Whether there’s a teacher shortage depends on who you ask and the definition of “shortage” it seems. In this episode, Diane and Michael welcome reporter Kevin Mahnken from The74 to provide up to date information on the data and storylines in the media. Then Diane details what her reality is on the ground in herContinue reading "Season 4, Episode 3: Is There a Teacher Shortage? It Depends"

Diane and Michael reflect about how all too often educators tell them that they’re piloting something, but when they dig in, what they’re doing doesn’t actually sound like a pilot. To make this crystal clear, they put one of Summit’s current pilots under the microscope to start to break down just what is a pilot and … Continue reading Season 4, Episode 2: What Does a Real Pilot Look Like in a School?

Although classrooms are not disrupted as they were over the last three school years, Diane and Michael are back with the goal of finding a way to disrupt them. In their opening episode of Season 4, the two catch up on headlines from their summers and share a preview for how they plan to help … Continue reading Season 4, Episode 1: The Disruptive Journey Ahead

In the final episode of season 3, Diane notes that many of the solutions to help make schools safer all focus around banning things: banning CRT, books, speakers, and more. Michael and Diane discuss what these ideas from both sides of the political spectrum share in common—and whether this instinct is actually the way to … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 20: Does banning things actually keep children safe in schools?

In this episode, Michael brings Diane a puzzle. A reader recently pushed back on an assertion in his upcoming book, From Reopen to Reinvent, that “fixed grouping of children by perceived ability… narrows opportunities,” by suggesting that older students are in fact relatively fixed in their abilities. In turn, Diane unpacks what’s behind the statement and … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 19: Are older students fixed in their abilities?

As charter schools face challenges in the Beltway, Diane and Michael go back to first principles around the purpose of charter schools by revisiting the original 1992 California Act that created charter schools in the state and assess how they’ve done. They then do a deep dive into innovation theory to revisit the promise and … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 18: Revisiting the promise and potential of charter schools 30 years later

Having returned from Germany, Diane shares what she learned about how Germany remembers the Holocaust and what it teaches its children about it so that it does not repeat its past. Michael and Diane reflect how the way Germany approaches the conversation could offer a new starting point to help America move past its polarizing … Continue reading Season 3, Episode 17: Never Forget: Lessons America’s education debates can learn from Germany

In their final episode exploring the themes of meritocracy and education, Diane and Michael describe the rethinking that has gone on in education around the college-for-all movement and suggest a path forward that learns from the past.

Diane and Michael work to dispel the myths around selective college admissions, dissect whether they are in fact meritocratic, and architect what they see as a better path forward.

Diane and Michael dive into the fierce debate around selective exam schools as a case study to not only identify the problems in implementation that meritocracy-based ideas have created, but also to suggest solutions that retain and amplify the benefits of meritocracy.

In this episode, Diane details the discussion of the history, pluses, and minuses with meritocracy through the prism of three recent books on the topic. Michael and Diane then discuss how this intersects with our K–12 education system—and set up two episodes to come about exam schools and selective college admissions.