Undressing Underground Podcast

And we're back with part two of our talk with the Questlove of Deerhoof, Greg Saunier. Like a Grateful Dead show, the second set is a little looser but also more to the point. We further discuss Deerhoof's accessibility, The Roots, Justin Theroux's 2007 directorial debut, Dedication, and some of Greg's other collaborations.Music this time starts off with Treiglo Meddal - Na'i ddim talu!, a limited edition cassette that I was able to find on Joyful Noise's youtube after I realized all of my tape decks are broken. We close with Flower from Deerhoof's live album with avant garde jazz trumpeter Wadada Leo Smith, To Be Surrounded By Beautiful, Curious, Breathing, Laughing Flesh Is Enough. I'm trying to keep Spotify from taking these down with copyright requests, so gotta go slightly obscure.Do you have someone for us to talk to? Do you want to talk to us? Are you Justin Theroux and want to talk about your weird, butchered by Weinstein, but still enjoyable 2007 romantic comedy Dedication? Or do you want to record yourself reading Edgar Allen Poe stories with weird music for our 2025 Edgar Allen Poecast? Email me at rob@undressingunderground.com or on instagram or bluesky.In the meantime, for more of Jennifer's discussions on polyamory, communism, and Christianity, check out ⁠The Dirtbag Christian⁠. For more from me, the feature from my video zine with the POTUS of Noise, Bucko Crooks, is on ⁠his YouTube⁠. And eventually Brandon's YA graphic novel on the history of skateboarding with AJ Dungo will be out on ⁠Flying Eye Books⁠. 

We're extremely excited to present part one of our talk with the Phil Lesh of Deerhoof, Greg Saunier. Deerhoof has been a favorite band of Brandon and me (Rob, the guy Greg keeps making fun of for saying dumb shit) for roughly 20 years. Although Deerhoof was an integral element of us becoming extremely cool dudes into challenging media that's far too intellectual for most people, I think we all agree with Greg's assessment of Deerhoof as a pop band. Of 90s/00s rock bands, it feels disingenuous to consider their noisiness more alienating than Sonic Youth, their lyrics more abstract than Pavement, or their overall vibe weirder than Bjork. Seeing Deerhoof in concert is nearly as accessible as seeing their greatest stylistic influence, the Rolling Stones.That said, the show opens with an attempt to recreate the original edit of their first 7”, The Return of the Wood M'Lady. But we close out with one of Ty Segall's daughter's favorite songs, Panda Panda Panda.Find more on Greg at Deerhoof's website or follow his political rants on Instagram.For more of Jennifer's discussions on polyamory, communism, and Christianity, check out The Dirtbag Christian. For more from me, the feature from my video zine with the POTUS of Noise, Bucko Crooks, is on his YouTube. And eventually Brandon's YA graphic novel on the history of skateboarding with AJ Dungo will be out on Flying Eye Books. Also, we're putting out a cassette for the 10th anniversary of the Edgar Allen Poecast and we're doing a new one this year. For more info on participating in that or other guest suggestions, email me at rob@undressingunderground.comPart two's up next week. Although we talked for two hours, we still didn't get a chance to ask about other members of Deerhoof, their new album, Greg's other projects, or how to pronounce Saunier.

It's Laura Squirrel's birthday and we're celebrating the only way we know how--doing whatever she asks us with this podcast feed. Today we're presenting the first ever public release of Laura's fan fiction about the obscure 80s cartoon the Get Along Gang, which was on CBS for one season and was based on a line of greeting cards featuring anthropomorphic child animals that hung around a clubhouse built inside of an abandoned train or something. She explains the context in the intro. I'm tired. I don't feel like rewriting what she said.Music is by Laura's harsh noise wall project, Ghosts of Dead Tables.

Short one today, punctuated by some longer music clips, including the last(???) track to be released by The Smudge. He kept it going for 25 years and, as he noted in one of our last episodes, he just wants to shut the fuck up and pump gas for a while. Though I did see he's got some other gigs coming up as Cop Corpse or something. I dunno, keep up with his goings on at his Instagram @wjmartmke, unless he's currently threatening to delete it as you read this, in which case wait a few days and he'll be back.The majority of this episode is dedicated to his thesis art exhibit in Milwaukee, opening tomorrow, Friday 3/28/2025. If you're in the area, go check it out. It genuinely sounds like a great and thoughtful experience. More on that at the Peck School of the Arts website. He's listed as, William Justice “Bucko Crooks” Mueller II.He also notes that he'll be playing a bunch of footage we shot in Milwaukee and Fargo last summer. More on that and our corresponding zine, The Arbitrary Art, at my gumroad, which is what this long hyperlink you're currently still reading goes to. Or you can check the trailer first here.We love Bucko, don't we folks? Go check out thesmudge.bandcamp.com for more. Hopefully his retirement is brief and he has hundreds of more albums for us before 2026.And, of course, thank you, New Zealand.

I meant to upload this last week but I was in Australia losing my mind crossing the outback like the narrator of What's Rangoon to You Is Grafton To Me (which no one out there seems to know, let alone have any interest in ABC radio, TISM, Wake in Fright, Ozploitation cinema, that guy that walked around talking to people on the street on TV, or even the morning show I turned on upon arrival at my airbnb that was referring to orange and ham pizza as "Christmas Pizza" before segueing into cockroach milk). So anyway, here it is now.President Crooks continues to go Bucko wild, necessitating at least one well meaning bleep from me and making Jennifer uncomfortable. He talks a bit about the history of noise, the types of noisers, Milwaukee's wild rap scene, and some other bits (Australians and their oppressively close sun got me calling everything "bits" now). Pulled a couple of really old Smudge tracks from Bucko's Bandcamp, at least one dating back to the Galactic Intolerance Records days on archive.org. Check out the rest of what remains of his discography over at http://thesmudge.bandcamp.comAlso, check out the zine/documentary-ish thing we made about his Milwaukee Noise Fest and our trip to Fargo, the Arbitrary Art. Be the first to download or buy a copy at my gumroad http://thearbitraryart.gumroad.com or glance at the unlisted video Bucko put up that I generally pretend does not exist. Or if you're in Philly look for an unmarked DVD in a yellow sleeve that I occasionally drop in Little Free Blockbusters.

Today we have part one of our talk with Milwaukee's iconoclastic POTUS of Noise, Bucko Crooks aka the Smudge aka Billy War Haul and member of too many recording and performing projects to fit within the 4,000 character limit here.Bucko comes out roaring, but he softens up a bit as we go along and Tells Us About His Work™ and how much he loves/hates academia and the liberal establishment. I actually forget what's in this episode vs. the second one, so you'll have to see for yourself. I don't even know what the purpose would be of describing it here.But you can hear more of Bucko's music at his bandcamp. Also, we touch on it very lightly here, but we made a movie together last year. It's part of a larger zine, but you can see the "documentary" on his Milwaukee Noisefest and our trip up to Fargo Noise Fest at my gumroad page. The feature is free/pay what you wish, the whole DVD will cost you a few bucks and will probably take a couple weeks to get to you because I'll be in Australia for the week following me posting this. Also I'm out of copies and need to build more of the whole fry container thing.

We've got one last roughly 30-40 minute episode with the flying Frenchman himself, Liam O'Donnell. This time we talk more about God, but Liam also gives his thoughts on SEX, and PORN, and MOVIE PUNS. If you enjoy listening to Liam pontificate on the frivolities of cinema, well, you're in luck cause he's got like 10 hours/week about this shit over on the Cinepunx Podcast Network, enough to spend at least one of your soulless working days thinking about something other than Elon Musk and whether you should eat your lunch at 10am.Also be sure to dig back in our archives for our previous talks with his cohosts Josh Alvarez, who I ran into at a movie a couple months ago and mistakenly referred to as diabetic, and Doug Tilley. We'd also welcome them all back if they ask because we're terrible about soliciting guests. If you're still reading and do your own things, feel free to reach out to us about coming on too. We have no idea what's next.

We've got more of Liam. A lot more. Mostly him. Jesus, mewithoutyou, Philly. It's all here. Also he leaves to pee at one point.Check out more of Liam at Cinepunx and Cinema Smorgasbord.Want more about mewithoutyou and lefty christianity? Check out Jennifer's companion blog,mewithoutYou might be the reason I'm still a Christian.Want something completely different from someone who lives in Philly but spent a few days in Milwaukee and Fargo? I put up my video zine I made with Bucko Crooks/The Smudge on gumroad,the Arbitrary Art. Available as a DVD, a full asinine little fry container thing with some additional ephemera, or a pay what you wish digital download.One more episode with Liam next week whenever I have time again. I don't remember what we talked about, so it'll be new to both of us.

We finally wrangled Liam back to talk to Jennifer about God, mewithoutyou, and other stuff she's interested in, instead of being stuck listening to people name a bunch of noise musicians she's never heard of. Liam, temporarily unburdened of his faustian bargain to have friends in his 40s but only be allowed to discuss movies, has a lot to say. Most of this episode is revolves around theology, but it does dip a bit into mewithoutyou and other bands out of Philly that I should know but don't because I've always been completely unmoored from this city I continue to gravitate to. You can read and hear more from Liam on various podcasts on his and (former guest) Joshua Alvarez's Cinepunx blog and podcast network. You can also of course hear Liam on the various podcasts contained within he and recent guest Doug Tilley's Cinema Smorgasbord podcast feed. They're all fun and none of them are 4 hours long. Also, we wanted to express again our deep sadness about the loss of Darryl W. Bullock and encourage anyone listening to at least check out our last talk about his books on the queer history of pop music, if not go an episode further back to hear him discuss some of the worst Christmas music ever recorded. We nervously joke a little about the circumstances, but it was a real shock and we still regret the fact we'll never be able to bring him back.

We were all deeply saddened by the news of Darryl's passing in the weeks after we first spoke to him. We all had a great time talking to him and were in reverence of the deep well of his knowledge and dedication to exploring the deepest corners of pop culture. After we had finished recording, we had all discussed speaking again in 2025, after he had finished his latest book, which he believed he would be finished later this year. Our sympathies go out to his friends, family, and his husband, who he repeatedly referenced and clearly adored. We would also like to thank the person who reached out to us in the comments of our last episode to inform us of the tragic news. In this episode we spoke at length about about the history of queerness in popular music, Darryl's books, and some of his other interests. His passion was palpable and we are so grateful to have had this conversation with him. For more information on Darryl and his work, you can follow the links provided in WFMU's obituary, pasted in full below: WFMU sadly lost one of its own this past December 23rd. From 2018 until early 2024, Darryl W. Bullock hosted 250 episodes of The World's Worst Records Show on the Sheena's Jungle Room stream. In addition to having a taste for Mrs. Miller records, Darryl was also a music writer who explored the relationship between pop music and LGBT issues in books like David Bowie Made Me Gay: 100 Years of LGBT Music, The Velvet Mafia: The Gay Men Who Ran the Swinging Sixties, and Pop, Pride and Politics: Music Theatre and LGBT Activism, 1970–2021. You can hear Darryl's shows here, and you can leave a remembrance here. Rest in peace, Darryl, and thanks for sharing your music with us.

It's that time of year again. Jill and Josh have been doing this relatively consistently for 9 years now, save a couple early on and despite this feed being otherwise dormant for about 5 years in the middle. I don't know how they still come up with as much weird, funny, and singular tracks as they do after all this time, but they continue to put me to shame. I don't have much else to say about it, just that this is one of the few traditions with others that I have left and I remain grateful for it. I think we're going to start a new tradition at the beginning with an old track Jill played because it remains evergreen as nearly every time we do this I'm within 2 months of another breakup leaving me bitter and resentful, only to be temporarily relieved by this annual meetup. Quick note: I confused Ted Nugent with Todd Rungren. I have no idea what god forsaken place spawned Nugent. Also a quick bit of self-promotion, the Smudge and I finished our DVD Zine, The Arbitrary Art. You can pick up the full zine, just the DVD, or just the feature we built it around at the link below. The download is pay what you wish, if you want to watch it for free. If you want a copy of the DVD ISO, just let me know. If you enjoy it, let me know. I've only heard from two people so far out of the evidently couple hundred that have seen it. https://thearbitraryart.gumroad.com Merry Christmas

Today we spoke to WFMU DJ and one of the last great music blogspot writers, Darryl W. Bullock, about some of the awful Christmas music he's presented on his radio program and blog over the years. We play a few clips of some grating little nepo babies slurring their way through asinine lyrics about the moon, saccharine nonsense about Vietnam, and some just plain weird and funny little numbers. We'll be back after the holidays with our second part, in which we dive a little deeper into Darryl's record collecting but also his latest career as a historian of LGBT/Queer music history. Brandon didn't tell us about that, so we were just listening to his radio show, but were excited to learn about his books David Bowie Made Me Gay and Queer Blues: The Hidden Figures of Early Blues Music

Last chance to hear Brandon's original theme song about Doug! But also, all of us speaking emphatically about bad movies, good movies, and about talking about movies. We touch a little more on Eric Roberts and Doug's other podcasting ventures and and and... I forget. Many things. We had fun. Hope you do too. Now we just gotta rope Liam on here. And now all the other stuff I wrote the first time: But, Doug Tilley's back! One of the first guests on this feed something like 9-10 years ago, he actually turned on this camera this time and told us all about Canada, Eric Roberts, 80s local news anchors in Detroit, and the other usual Doug Tilley things. This'll probably be three parts because we're not Blank Check and we respect you enough to not put up 3 hour episodes. Check out Doug's main podcasting project at ⁠⁠Cinema Smorgasbord ⁠⁠with his buddy, Cinepunx cofounder (and former guest here) Liam O'Donnell. A spinoff or evolution or whatever of their original podcast, Eric Roberts is the Fucking Man, Cinema Smorgasbord covers a whole host of other actors and filmmakers that will make you tepidly exclaim, "Oh yeah, that guy(/lady)!" Or, if the last 30 years of Eric Roberts vehicles is too high budget for you, dig deep into the stone ages of podcasting with his 13-year-old(!) podcast ⁠⁠No Budget Nightmares⁠⁠ with his old friend Moe Porne. Can you believe that shit is still active? I suppose I can since these are the only movie podcasts I ever listen to. Speaking of movies that look like shit, did I mention I made a thing with ⁠⁠The Smudge⁠⁠ (sort of) about midwest noise festivals? Well, you can look at the trailer for that ⁠⁠here⁠⁠ and eventually we'll have a DVD you can purchase.

This week we talk to Doug about Eric Roberts (natch), his early internet communities, making a short feature film on video in the early 2000s, and Newfoundland accents! And now all the other stuff I wrote last time: But, Doug Tilley's back! One of the first guests on this feed something like 9-10 years ago, he actually turned on this camera this time and told us all about Canada, Eric Roberts, 80s local news anchors in Detroit, and the other usual Doug Tilley things. This'll probably be three parts because we're not Blank Check and we respect you enough to not put up 3 hour episodes. Check out Doug's main podcasting project at ⁠Cinema Smorgasbord ⁠with his buddy, Cinepunx cofounder (and former guest here) Liam O'Donnell. A spinoff or evolution or whatever of their original podcast, Eric Roberts is the Fucking Man, Cinema Smorgasbord covers a whole host of other actors and filmmakers that will make you tepidly exclaim, "Oh yeah, that guy(/lady)!" Or, if the last 30 years of Eric Roberts vehicles is too high budget for you, dig deep into the stone ages of podcasting with his 13-year-old(!) podcast ⁠No Budget Nightmares⁠ with his old friend Moe Porne. Can you believe that shit is still active? I suppose I can since these are the only movie podcasts I ever listen to. Speaking of movies that look like shit, did I mention I made a thing with ⁠The Smudge⁠ (sort of) about midwest noise festivals? Well, you can look at the trailer for that ⁠here⁠ and eventually we'll have a DVD you can purchase.

I forgot while writing this that Doug said Eric Roberts is the Fucking Man got pulled from iTunes because of the name, so, there's your title. But, Doug Tilley's back! One of the first guests on this feed something like 9-10 years ago, he actually turned on this camera this time and told us all about Canada, Eric Roberts, 80s local news anchors in Detroit, and the other usual Doug Tilley things. This'll probably be three parts because we're not Blank Check and we respect you enough to not put up 3 hour episodes. Check out Doug's main podcasting project at Cinema Smorgasbord with his buddy, Cinepunx cofounder (and former guest here) Liam O'Donnell. A spinoff or evolution or whatever of their original podcast, Eric Roberts is the Fucking Man, Cinema Smorgasbord covers a whole host of other actors and filmmakers that will make you tepidly exclaim, "Oh yeah, that guy(/lady)!" Or, if the last 30 years of Eric Roberts vehicles is too high budget for you, dig deep into the stone ages of podcasting with his 13-year-old(!) podcast No Budget Nightmares with his old friend Moe Porne. Can you believe that shit is still active? I suppose I can since these are the only movie podcasts I ever listen to. Speaking of movies that look like shit, did I mention I made a thing with The Smudge (sort of) about midwest noise festivals? Well, you can look at the trailer for that here and eventually we'll have a DVD you can purchase.

Hello, I'm very tired, so I'm sorry to be reusing the same description again. Our old friend Sara Century is back to talk about her ⁠⁠massive SCREAM zine, over 60 pages dissecting the themes of all six Scream films⁠⁠. It rocks. Everything Sara does rocks. I'm not really sure what else to say about it except it's worth your $14 for the physical copy with the cool, unique, handmade cover. If you can't afford that + shipping, then at the very least it's worth your $7 for the PDF version. This is the first third of our talk. We like talking movies, particularly with smart people with smart things to say about them, so we're going even longer than usual. The conversation is wide ranging, as always, but Sara still packs in a ton of fun factoids and analysis on the series to whet your appetite for her zine. ⁠⁠Go buy it⁠⁠. I also did finally watch When a Stranger Calls Back and it's great. You can read ⁠Sara's piece on it here.⁠ This was it for now. We have a couple of guests slated for the next couple months and we'll of course be back with the whateverth annual-ish Cease & Desistmas. Also, I put up a trailer for my little movie thing with the Smudge about Milwaukee and Fargo Noisefests. You can see that here. More details soon.

Hello, Our old friend Sara Century is back to talk about her ⁠massive SCREAM zine, over 60 pages dissecting the themes of all six Scream films⁠. It rocks. Everything Sara does rocks. I'm not really sure what else to say about it except it's worth your $14 for the physical copy with the cool, unique, handmade cover. If you can't afford that + shipping, then at the very least it's worth your $7 for the PDF version. This is the first third of our talk. We like talking movies, particularly with smart people with smart things to say about them, so we're going even longer than usual. The conversation is wide ranging, as always, but Sara still packs in a ton of fun factoids and analysis on the series to whet your appetite for her zine. ⁠Go buy it⁠. I also did finally watch When a Stranger Calls Back and it's great. You can read Sara's piece on it here. Back next week with the final third.

Hello, Our old friend Sara Century is back to talk about her massive SCREAM zine, over 60 pages dissecting the themes of all six Scream films. It rocks. Everything Sara does rocks. I'm not really sure what else to say about it except it's worth your $14 for the physical copy with the cool, unique, handmade cover. If you can't afford that + shipping, then at the very least it's worth your $7 for the PDF version. This is the first third of our talk. We like talking movies, particularly with smart people with smart things to say about them, so we're going even longer than usual. The conversation is wide ranging, as always, but Sara still packs in a ton of fun factoids and analysis on the series to whet your appetite for her zine. Go buy it. Back next week with the next third.

10 years ago I filmed a "documentary" about a noise festival being held in the community center of a 4H fairgrounds in the middle of nowhere, I Indiana and attended by no one. The organizer of that event, Laura Squirrel, wanted to come back on to mark the 10th anniversary of that show no one witnessed but the artists, me, my girlfriend at the time, and another friend of mine from grad school. Changed up the opening track to feature a track off one of Laura's more recent releases on her bandcmap. Check out more of Laura's work below: https://highschoolradiosubversionnetwork.bandcamp.com

10 years ago I filmed a "documentary" about a noise festival being held in the community center of a 4H fairgrounds in the middle of nowhere, I Indiana and attended by no one. The organizer of that event, Laura Squirrel, wanted to come back on to mark the 10th anniversary of that show no one witnessed but the artists, me, my girlfriend at the time, and another friend of mine from grad school. Opening track has probably been used on the various iterations of this podcast a dozen times, but it's still funny to me. It's the first song of Laura's opening set at Indiana Noisefest 2014 and more or less the opener of the movie. Check out more of Laura's work on her bandcamp: https://highschoolradiosubversionnetwork.bandcamp.com

Good Hello, Today we present part two of our talk with musician, radio playwright, zine maker, postcard sender, plunderphonicser, former centrist, and the host of WFMU's Mid-Valley Mutations, Dimestore Radio Theater, and occasional other programs, Austin Rich! We talked a little about his work at the beginning, but then the majority of this is just us talking about noise and other stuff we all like. I mean, mostly just us listening to him talk about stuff he likes that we occasionally recognize. He's just a fun dude to listen to. Gotta say, I wanna steal the limited decibel show idea he talked about and host those in my apartment. The opening track is from ⁠Postal Psounds III of Austin's, "Human Dinosaur - Dawn." If you wanna hear more, check out the archive of his regular programs, ⁠Mid-Valley Mutations⁠ and ⁠Dimestore Radio Theater⁠. For more... just go to his ⁠website⁠ or ⁠patreon⁠, it's all linked there. It'd take another 10,000 words just to write out all the projects.

Good Hello, Today we talked to musician, radio playwright, zine maker, postcard sender, plunderphonicser, former centrist, and the host of WFMU's Mid-Valley Mutations, Dimestore Radio Theater, and occasional other programs, Austin Rich! How he even has time to talk to us for a couple hours, I forgot to ask. We talk about all these things, his influences, more. I'm not even sure what to write about specifically. I'm not even sure why anyone would read this instead of listening. The opening track is from this Mini Mutation of Austin's, Open Season on the Rich. If you wanna hear more, check out the archive of his regular programs, Mid-Valley Mutations and Dimestore Radio Theater. For more... just go to his website or patreon, it's all linked there. It'd take another 10,000 words just to write out all the projects.

We recorded this a month ago but then I had to go to a bunch of midwestern noise shows and meet Jennifer in New Mexico to go to the Lightning Field. But now I'm back and I've edited part two in Jennifer's living room. Today we have part two of our talk with Jennifer's friend from her days at Uproxx, Christian. Today we mostly move away from his writing and begin with the conclusion of his story sort of meeting Neil Young, talk about his miniatures and their growing fanbase on instagram, and his incredibly improbable ex, Alex Jone's current wife. You can read some of Christian's old writing at ⁠Uproxx on their website⁠, or you can check out his main post-pandemic passion, Star Wars miniatures, on his ⁠instagram⁠. Also, as usual, the intro and outro music is still provided by ⁠Tripp Nasty⁠.

We recorded this a month ago but then I had to go to a bunch of midwestern noise shows and meet Jennifer in New Mexico to go to the Lightning Field. But now I'm back and this is edited and... it's online as soon as I hit the purple or mauve button on the right side of my screen. Today we talked to Jennifer's friend from her days at Uproxx, Christian . He's mostly out of the game, favoring work with a local animal shelter over buying in-air wifi to urgently file a story for $30, but he's been left with a number of exhausting and hilarious stories about half-assed press tours, stealing food, editing local news, getting big timed by Jake Busey, and a story about a curmudgeonly Neil Young we're saving for next week. We also ramble on as usual, this time about horror movie hosts, streaming services, and weirdo hipster eugenicists. You can read some of Christian's old writing at Uproxx on their website, or you can check out his main post-pandemic passion, Star Wars miniatures, on his instagram. Also, as usual, the intro and outro music is still provided by Tripp Nasty.

Part two of our conversation with Jazmin, this time more focused on her own story and artwork. We learn about the origins of some of her recurring characters, her highly personal work with her father, and what it's like teaching art to elementary school kids these days. Be sure to check out Jazmin's work on her Instagram, but also please do stop by her fundraiser for Palestine if you're around LA on 4/27/2024. More info below, but you can also check out the official flyer on her instagram. A Fundraiser for Palestine: An Art Show and Call for Action

We talk to artist Jazmin about her Fundraiser for Palestine set to take place at the Matilija Lending Library in El Monte, CA (near LA) on Saturday 4/27. We focus almost entirely on the fundraiser in this episode. Next week we'll have more about Jazmin's background as an artist and the usual bullshit about reality shows, Jennifer's weird life, etc. For more info on the fundraiser, check out this flyer on Jazmin's's Instagram. For more info on Jazzzyyy, just click back to the rest of her Insta. If you have trouble with Instagram, here's the info for the flyer. Be sure to reach out if you have any food or anything else you can offer for the event. Today is Land back day, a significant day when Palestinians hold protests, vigils, and show resistance towards the Israeli force for the years they have occupied Palestinian land and taken innocent lives since 1976 which has tragically still continued till today. If you want to show more support or get more involved to call an immediate ceasefire, please read the following caption:Mark your calendars for April 27th!!A Fundraiser for Palestine: An Art Show and Call for Action

Part two of our conversation with Anthony Thomas Lombardi in which we delve more into how he got into poetry, rap music, God, and his involvement with different facets of the Free Palestine movement. For more on the latter, check out the Google Doc he references in the episode. For more on his poetry and Anthony in general, check out his Instagram. For more on us, subscribe or listen to old episodes. I'm walking out the door and don't feel like looking up links.

Today is the first part of our talk with an old friend of mine, the poet Anthony Lombardi. We've known each other for about 16 or 17 years (he takes poetic license to claim 20) but have lost touch several times, only for him to reemerge in a completely different stage of his life. Now he's a poet, sober, and thriving (if you ask me, not him). He regularly performs around New York, teaches several courses on poetry and film, published all over, has another book coming out in 2025, and he's getting divorced again. We talk more about his poetry in the second half, but this time we do touch on it but mostly discuss Amy Winehouse, his connection to Big Star, addiction, and the loss of friends and loved ones. Beneath all the neck tattoos he's a big softie. You can mostly learn more about Anthony via his Instagram, where he regularly posts his poetry and includes links to the causes he's involved with.

The second half of our conversation with esteemed noise musician Leslie Keffer. In this part we talk about noise music (of course), touring, stained glass, and spend a good chunk talking about AI. Nothing anti-AI this time. Sorry. Same opening and closing tracks as last time since I've got a lot going on and didn't have time. But still be sure to check out Leslie's Bandcamp page, No Part Of It's Bandcamp, and, I dunno, google around about her. She's been around a while and done a ton of interesting stuff. One of which is this Gutter: Girls of Noise doc I still need to watch. ALSO! Are you doing cool shit like Leslie? Do you know Leslie or Arvo or one of our other guests? We want to talk to you! There's always more room in our platonic polycule, but we also have lives and jobs and stuff and can't spend as much time as we'd like looking for new guests. If you're interested, find us on social media or shoot me an email at rob@undressingunderground.com Oh, and don't forget to subscribe to Jennifer's mailing list, the Dirtbag Christian.

We finally had just enough of a break from all the horrible, complicated, and annoying things in our lives to sit down and talk to esteemed noise musician, and mutual friend of Arvo Zylo, Leslie Keffer. We talk about how she got into noise music, touring, and some about her process, but the Zoom's AI that Jennifer discovered probably gives a good of a synopsis of the overall conversation as I can: Based on the meeting transcript, the conversation seems to be casual and meandering, covering various topics such as podcasting, music scenes, secret societies, and polyamory. The participants discuss their experiences and share anecdotes about living in Nashville, attending shows, and encountering different subcultures. There is also mention of Freemasons, Mormonism, and the TV show "Big Love." Overall, the meeting appears to be a friendly and informal discussion without any specific agenda or action items. We'll be in a week or two with part two of our discussion. In the meantime, you can hear more from the split EP tape of Leslie playing (respectively) with Kim Gordon and Thurston Moore on YouTube and here more of her solo work either on her bandcamp or the No Part Of It label's bandcamp. You can also find Leslie on Twitter. Also, if you're interested in more projects of people fucking around with radios, there's the short film Brandon and I shot in Joshua Tree last year, Extinction Weekend. And Jennifer can always be found on her Substack, the Dirtbag Christian.

Not really sure how to title this because we don't want to give his name considering the stuff we discuss. But this is one of my oldest friends, someone I used to travel around with to festivals and to see the Dead, but who has lived a much more interesting life than me. He notes that he's seen the Disco Biscuits live more times than there are days in a year. Following bands is a bizarre and hilarious subculture that I have enjoyed in small doses and have always loved hearing about. If you're curious what the Disco Biscuits sound like, you can check out this random live video I found on YouTube. It's 50 minutes long and features 3 songs. If you've been following us, I apologize for the break in episodes. 2023 saw a lot of turbulence, between Brandon getting a job and working on his book, Jennifer getting laid off and buying a house, and then everything going on in mine. The big thing was still the lingering effects of a sudden and unexpected breakup from someone I was in the early stage of buying a house with, but also a deluge of other comically absurd mental, physical, and especially financial crises. But we're working on getting back to talking to more strange podcasters, noise musicians, and general weirdos in 2024.

After this year, I'm done tempting fate. We're calling this the Xmas Exchange now. I also don't remember how many we've done, so I'm done trying to figure that out. Anyway, we're back with Josh and Jill for our annual exchange of the best, worst, weirdest, funniest, and most interesting Christmas music and clips we could compile. This year Josh and Jill really leaned into the worst, but they've got a handful of nice bits I'll be including in future Christmas mixtapes I force upon my friends and family in lieu of gifts, despite no one owning a CD player anymore. As always, Jill's share includes an eclectic collection of foreign Christmas songs and Josh's includes some of the dumbest shit you'll ever hear. I edited together my choices again, this time focusing on a smattering of high and low brow Christmas movies, specials, and one local news interview. To my surprise, Josh and Jill were really into my editing, so if you want to see that and you're not located in one of the 70+ countries it's banned from, you can see that here, though I should note I had to film my screen for a lot of it (the sound was recorded direct and sounds fine): https://youtu.be/ZpeMWMEG18Q As for the music, hope you have Shazam downloaded because we forgot to announce pretty much everything again. At the end we're joined by Jennifer C. Martin, who reads a family favorite, 'Twas the Night Before Redneck Christmas. Platonic Polyamory will be back in the new year. Everything in my life began falling apart in February just got exponentially worse as the year went on, leaving me mentally and physically incapable of following through on anything, let alone this podcast. But we've got one interview already recorded and a couple lined up for the first few months of 2024. Happy holidays/New Years/whatever you do.

Just like evolution will inevitably lead to crabs, our conversations will inevitably lead to breast milk and cannibalism. We discussed cell steaks, again, but also veggie burgers, idiosyncratic small towns across America, the Pacific Northwest, and Brandon and I both got incredibly excited by the mention of the old Hentai theater in Portland. If you enjoy hearing from Kelly and find yourself curious about non-right wing debate culture, please do check out her podcast Indubitably over at Podbean or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, subscribe to Jennifer's newsletter, The Dirtbag Christian, at her Substack. She has a paid option now, which gets you additional content, an exclusive Discord chat (that I will join eventually), and other exclusive content. It's worth it. She's worth it. Just do it. Want to come on the podcast? Or know another good guest? Shoot me an email at rob@undressingunderground.com or reach out to any of us in whatever way you know how. We're ethical platonic sluts and are interested in talking about anything with just about anyone.

Hello, we're back. I moved and my cat got cancer, Brandon got a job, and Jennifer quit hers, so... here we are. Now. Instead of earlier. This week we had Kelly from the podcast Indubitably talk to us about debating and how she does it without crying. And who wins if someone does cry. Honestly, I think we were all sort of surprised how interesting we found debate. It's become an easy topic to dismiss due to the rise of the disingenuous right wing debate culture, but Kelly makes a formidable case for its usefulness and its just being a fun thing to do (for anyone but me). Jennifer was a guest on Indubitably last year, so please do check out her discussing polyamory, dating apps, and cancel culture with Josh and Kelly here. You can also find more episodes and where else you can here them at their PodBean page. And if you're still reading, please also check out Jennifer's blog, The Dirtbag Christian. She just added a paid tier and is going to be posting regular updates going forward. And hey, I just heard from Tripp Nasty recently, our former guest and composer of the songs I stole for most of our episodes. If you're reading this on 8/4, that means it's Bandcamp Friday, so why not go peruse his offerings and throw him a few bucks too? https://trippnasty.bandcamp.com/ k, bye now

Part two of our talk with Brandon Noel about his working class background, poetry, and Olney Magazine. Plus a little more about religion, but not much. We also talk about how reality TV is made. Olney recently released their fifth issue, which you can pick up on their website as a $5 PDF or the print version for $17.99. It's worth picking up just for our very own Jennifer C Martin's cover story on her alma mater, "Lee University and the on campus treatment of its LGTBQ+ student." You can learn more about Olney and submit your own work through their website, though they're also on Twitter and Instagram. They're also on Facebook, but you're not really still on Facebook, are you?

We brought Brandon Noel on to talk about his working class background, poetry, and Olney Magazine, but our Brandon and I can't stop fucking talking about religion. So, in this part Brandon Noel speaks primarily about how he founded his own church in his early 20s, his amusingly pedantic theory on the "existence" of God, and then we talk a little about Hoarders before I have to cut it off to prevent this episode from going on two hours. Next week Jennifer forces us to talk about Brandon Noel's work in a steel mill, the origins of Olney Magazine in the backroom of a cigar bar, and how he's been able to carve out a more fulfilling career in the media thanks to his work in Olney and his former blue collar job. He also explains the origin of the name Olney, which evidently has nothing to do with the Olney area of North Philadelphia. Olney recently released their fifth issue, which you can pick up on their website as a $5 PDF or the print version for $17.99. It's worth picking up just for our very own Jennifer C Martin's cover story on her alma mater, "Lee University and the on campus treatment of its LGTBQ+ student." You can learn more about Olney and submit your own work through their website, though they're also on Twitter and Instagram. They're also on Facebook, but you're not really still on Facebook, are you?

Hi, hello, sorry, yes, we're late again. I hope this edit makes sense because I'm still too busy to start from scratch. But this edit cuts out most of Ileana and leaves Melissa's answers intact for any bilingual listeners. I'm sure our reactions aren't going to really make sense. Sorry. If you skipped the last episode, here's a recap of the description, lightly edited because Tripp Nasty had to cancel his tour. Good hello again and sorry again for the delay. Life is hard, but it goes on, whether I want it to or not.  Today on the show we talk to a mutual friend of former guests Ileana and Ernesto Bautista, Melissa Guevara. Her and Ernesto's work have a lot of overlaps (death, experimental video, large conceptual pieces, focus on El Salvadoran history and issues like immigration), but also we tried to focus a little more on her own unique perspectives and approaches. We discuss all of the above, but we also touch on her religious upbringing, her current feelings about religion, and her pottery work. Also of note, Melissa's answers in this episode are translated by our mutual friend and former guest, Ileana. I've done my best to edit this in an engaging manner for English speakers, leaving Melissa's answers largely in place but diverting focus to Ileana's translations layered above them, but we will also have a bilingual version in the coming weeks that will feature all of our questions in English and Melissa's answers in Spanish. If there's any questions or concerns about my editing, please let me know by emailing me at rob@undressingunderground.com. If this works out, we'd also love to hear from other non-English speaking artists and people. If you know anyone and would like to help us out with this, please feel free to contact me at the email above and let's see what we can do. We had a lovely time talking to Melissa and are incredibly grateful to Ileana for her services. We would love to learn more about what's going on outside of the anglosphere. If you want to learn more about Melissa or take a look at some of the work described in the episode, you can check out her website and her VIMEO, which are primarily in Spanish. Music today is a couple of old tracks by our buddy Tripp Nasty.

Good hello again and sorry again for the delay. Life is hard, but it goes on, whether I want it to or not. Today on the show we talk to a mutual friend of former guests Ileana and Ernesto Bautista, Melissa Guevara. Her and Ernesto's work have a lot of overlaps (death, experimental video, large conceptual pieces, focus on El Salvadoran history and issues like immigration), but also we tried to focus a little more on her own unique perspectives and approaches. We discuss all of the above, but we also touch on her religious upbringing, her current feelings about religion, and her pottery work. Also of note, Melissa's answers in this episode are translated by our mutual friend and former guest, Ileana. I've done my best to edit this in an engaging manner for English speakers, leaving Melissa's answers largely in place but diverting focus to Ileana's translations layered above them, but we will also have a bilingual version in the coming weeks that will feature all of our questions in English and Melissa's answers in Spanish. If there's any questions or concerns about my editing, please let me know by emailing me at rob@undressingunderground.com. If this works out, we'd also love to hear from other non-English speaking artists and people. If you know anyone and would like to help us out with this, please feel free to contact me at the email above and let's see what we can do. We had a lovely time talking to Melissa and are incredibly grateful to Ileana for her services. We would love to learn more about what's going on outside of the anglosphere. If you want to learn more about Melissa or take a look at some of the work described in the episode, you can check out her website and her VIMEO, which are primarily in Spanish. Music today is a couple of old tracks by our buddy Tripp Nasty. He's touring soon, so sniff around his social media for more info on that.

We talked to Christian about a month ago about this book, The Carpenter's Son: A Proletarian Reconstruction of the Jesus of Nazareth. Afterward we talked for another 45 minutes about a bunch of bullshit, as we generally do. So, we've started recording that, cause, why not. The episode starts off where the last left off, with Jennifer and Christian's thoughts on the future of leftism in Christianity, but then we just start talking about pizza and cheese steaks and buying cigarettes in Indiana. We had fun. I hope you have fun. Was your day ok? My life is falling apart, which is why these take so long to come out. But I had fun thinking up more secular songs about Jesus to throw on the beginning and end. Ok thanks, ttyl. If you or anyone you know would make a good guest, reach out to me (@thedeathsiren) or Jennifer (@notreallyjcm) and let us know.

Happy Good Friday, if that's something I'm supposed to say. For our Easter special we've got Jennifer's friend, author Christian Chiakulas talking to us about the Jesus guy everyone's talking about right now. I'd offer a synopsis of his book, but the title The Carpenter's Son: A Proletarian Reconstruction of Jesus of Nazareth, seems to cover the basics. Needless to say, Brandon was very excited and had a ton of questions involving dialectics, materialism, and other terms I only barely comprehend. That said, it's a fairly easy read, largely focusing on existing research about the man, Jesus Christ, and attempting to place biblical events and writings in a historical context that doesn't line up great with the American christian right. I had no trouble following it and I'm a fucking idiot. Just gotta skip over some of the big words. You'll get it. Next week we'll toss up the last half hour of our conversation in which we mostly talk about food. Apparently there's a type of Chicago-style pizza other than deep dish. I've never had either of them, but they all swear by all of them. Opening track came up when I searched for Neutral Milk Hotel's "I love you Jesus Christ" song in Google. It barely has any listens and it's only a minute long, but it made me laugh. Good SEO skills, deadcowboy. Happy to double your 29 listens with this episode.

Part 2 of our chat with El Salvadoran director, poet, musician, multimedia artist, etc. etc. etc., Ernesto Bautista. In this part he discusses his work with his old collective, organizing a soccer match between survivors of both sides in the El Salvadoran Civil War. He also digs a little deeper into the flourishing metal scene in El Salvador, including the effects of the president's current crackdown on "gang members" that has resulted in the profiling and arrest of many in the scene. The opening and closing tracks can be found on Ernesto's metal album, Karma Theatre, on his bandcamp. Though it's also available on Spotify, Apple Music, and whatever other streaming service afterthoughts billionaires have out there. Also be sure to check out Ernesto's linktree to take a deeper dive into his various endeavors. While you're clicking around, why not check out Jennifer C. Martin's latest on her substack, The Dirtbag Christian?

Today on the show we talk to filmmaker, poet, and multimedia artist Ernesto Bautista, who I almost certainly mispronounce the name of in my introduction despite Ileana sending me a WhatsApp message with the correct pronunciation. I still can't say her name either, though. As I mention in the intro and we discuss a little later on in the episode, Ernesto was introduced to us by a mutual friend and our former guest, Ileana. You can hear more about her in our previous episode, Au Pair Nightmares w/ ileana. But enough about Ileana. Today's guest is Ernesto. I'm not even entirely sure what to say except that we spend most of the episode silent as he offered thoughtful descriptions of his work, poetry, the history of his country. His work spans countless mediums and has been featured in museums around the world, including the main exhibit of the Reina Sofía Museum in Madrid, Spain. He's made several experimental films, had his words plastered on the sides of trucks and the pavement of busy intersections, and created shocking works utilizing human blood and skeletal remains. All of this meant to investigate, inspire, and deconstruct our understanding of life, memory, perception, violence, death, and I guess some other things I'm not smart enough wrap my mind around. As mentioned in the introduction, this episode will be broken into two parts. In this first episode we touch on his approach to art and poetry, his use of human remains, and his feelings about what it means to be alive. In part two we dig a little deeper into the El Salvadoran Civil War, his work with its survivors, and a brief introduction the flourishing heavy metal scene in El Salvador. In the meantime, please check out Ernesto's website to experience more of his work firsthand. He can be found at https://www.ernestobautista.com. Though, just as his work explores life, death, and memory, so does his web presence as half of the links about him I click on are dead. You can also watch a brief, subtitled introduction to Ernesto and his work on FLORA ars+natura's YouTube, see excerpts of his own film work (about half of which is subtitled) on his VIMEO, and check out his Bandcamp to hear more of his metal band Karma Theatre, featured in this episode. Karma Theatre can also be found on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Music.

Another year, another collection of strange, terrible, funny, and sometimes lovely Christmas songs from all over the world and throughout the last 100 years of recorded sound. I (Rob) am joined as every other year by my buddies Jill and Josh. We had to record this at midnight because Jill is back in Tokyo, Josh has added somewhere between 3 and 10 children to his house since last year, and I was at a double feature of terrible Christmas horror films. We didn't have the time to troubleshoot why Josh's mic was blowing out, so apologies for that, but I cut out most of the stuff that was truly indiscernible. If you want help tracking down any of the songs we play clips from, reach out to me at rob@undressingunderground.com and I'll do my best to figure out whatever the hell Jill is playing. Also, don't forget to check out the PPA talk with Christmas Underground from a couple weeks back. His 2022 mix is also now up at his website. If you or someone you know wants to talk Christmas music with any of us next year, let us know. Brandon, Jennifer, and I are already figuring out who we could manage. I don't care if we do 10 Christmas episodes next year.

We were very excited to talk to the guy (forgot to ask his name) behind the blog christmasunderground.com, which is currently on its 10th year. People that know Brandon and I know we love Christmas music, though we tend toward Culturcide, The Frogs, and a guy impersonating Randy Newman performing "All I Want For Christmas Is You" on YouTube that got DMCA'd a few years back and now is impossible to find (outside of my hard drive). Jennifer likes the Sufjan Stevens albums and I'm actually not sure what all else. But she's a real Christian, so, there's that. But today we got to talk about the unfathomable depths of original Christmas music available on Bandcamp, Soundcloud, MySpace, and countless CD compilations and albums from the last 20+ years. We're not even touching on the history of R&B and novelty 7"s, the original run of classic records, the local music from nearly every industrialized nation, and so on. There is so much fucking Christmas music out there. If you want to know more about that, check out the documentary our guest mentions, Jingle Bell Rocks! The link will take you to JustWatch, which lists everywhere it's available to rent or stream (I signed up for a free trial of Fandor to see it). Christmas Underground focuses more on the sincere, indie side of things. There's a new mix posted a few days before Christmas each year and 50+ posts about his assorted finds leading up to that. He even touches on some new standards brewing in the underground that even I wasn't familiar with (most notably, So Much Wine by Handsome Family). Listen to the episode and when you're done check out the following links to Christmas Underground to hear and learn more about his favorites. Phoebe Bridgers - So Much Wine Traveller - Christmas Eve at Kroger Annie Booth - Christmas Time (Keep It Together) Charlie Hand Movement - Baubles Have Yourself a Merry Indie Christmas (compilation) Sorry about everything I was wrong about again this episode. See everyone a few more times this month for more of the annual Christmas music nonsense.

First off, I had some internet issues, so the episode gets cut off at the end (like when we talked to Colin). Sorry! Second, I included some music cues to add context to a few points AJ and Brandon make (like when we talked to Laura and Tripp). Third, we talked to AJ. He's Brandon's friend going back to middle school when AJ'd tap on Brandon's window to ask him to skateboard. They've supported each other through their cultural journey through skateboarding, punk, and noise music and are now exhibiting the fruits of that journey with their upcoming graphic novel history on the history of skateboarding. We don't get much into his illustrating, but you can check out AJ's work on his website: https://www.ajdungo.com You can also hear more from his former band, Bear Flag Republic, on their bandcamp, which features a free download of their sole album. The episode opens and closes with them. There's also a little clip in the middle to exhibit just how p r e t t y they are. I think we'll be back with another episode before my annual Christmas music podcast with my buddies Jill and Josh. J&J Christmas, as they're generally referred to. Bye bye

Today we talked to Julia Wright, one of those practical effect weirdos that bloodies and bruises the actors in horror films and creates dead defecating dogs out of weaves and PVC pipe for short films. She's also Jennifer C Martin's sister. Brandon and Rob probe about why practical effects are better and seek out horror recommendations (she's got a couple good ones, one of which from Japan in 2005 that we'd never heard of) while her and Jennifer reminisce about disturbing shit from their childhood. Check out Julia and her husband's work on their website, Rabbit Trail Studio, and their instagram. And check out the lettuce suit she built for the Appetite's music video for Static Friends. We couldn't find the short film she referenced. You guys gotta give your stuff more original names. Also, don't forget to sign up for Jennifer's newsletter, the Dirtbag Christian, if you haven't already. She does still update it occasionally.

Sara Century's back on this podcast feed for the umpteenth time. This time we talked to her about the inherent queerness of horror, the lack of queerness of some modern LGBT horror, getting drunk in movie theaters, queerness and emotion in punk, and a bunch of other stuff. Sara knows everything, so there's a lot to talk about. Except comic books, cause we don't really care about super heroes. I guess we touch on it some. If you do want to hear Sara talk about comic books, check out her podcast Bitches on Comic. Also be sure to check out the website for her publishing company, Queer Spec, for more info on her various projects. Or her personal website, saracentury.com, which has a mailing list I'm sure she'll send the first blast out for any day now. Or just search "Sara Century" on your favorite podcast app and I'm sure you'll find months worth of audio discussing whatever you could possibly want her talk about.

Jennifer's gone viral again for her hot takes on polyamory and Christianity. This time her wealthy grandmother caught wind of it and cut her out of the will and the rest of her life. So, we talk about that. Partly because I fucked up scheduling again and Sara Century thought we were recording the following week, partly because Jennifer's life is endlessly interesting.

Mickey Reece made it this week! As a bunch of scum sucking freaks, we all felt a kindred spirit in the DIY, and even the more recent sellout arthouse horror films of Mickey Reece. If you're unfamiliar with Mickey Reece, just know that he is probably 30-something years old, but his IMDB features 37 film and only 9 of them are available publicly. Because of this, his predilection for casual experimentation, and his remote origins in bumfuck, Oklahoma, the press has lavished him with all sorts of cute nicknames like, "Flyover Fassbinder." A title I wish I had acquired while making films in Indiana, but I refuse professional or amateur envy. We talked to Mickey Reece's Mickey Reece about what drives his story and production choices, his "real" job, and how beautiful life would be if he could sell out. You can watch Climate of the Hunter on Shudder, Agnes on Hulu, and a handful of his older films (as in, more than 2 years old) on Alamo OnDemand. The last link includes the destined to be cult classic, Mickey Reece's Alien, a film about Elvis, Priscilla, and Elvis's illegitimate extra(?) terrestrial baby. Keep an eye on your local film festivals for Mickey Reece's latest, Country Gold, which depicts the time Garth Brooks met George Jones shortly before the latter was cryogenically frozen. If you prefer to multitask, you can also watch his one minute Instagram Reels for George's Liquor in Oklahoma City @stopbygeorgesokc And as long as you're clicking around, why not see what Jennifer C. Martin's up to? Brandon and I don't have links. Except for this one.

I was listening to Desert Cruising recently and noticed he stopped using episode numbers and it occurred to me that if there's anything less pointless than naming these episodes, it's assigning them numbers. So, no more of that. This is a non-episode in which I fucked up scheduling our guest and he didn't show, so we talked about Tim Tebow and movies with weird thoughts on trans people. I also posted the zoom link on twitter out of curiosity and we got zoom bombed by some people who's only hobby is apparently saying the 'n' word. We were already having a problematic conversation guys, we don't care. We'll have on Mickey Mouse, the star of Fantasia and Steamboat Willie next week. Thanks to everyone that listened to our episode with Ileana.

We talk to my old friend Ileana about her experience as a Mexican citizen working as an au pair in the United States for two years. It may shock you to learn that being a Mexican woman living in an American family's home while employed as a domestic worker is not great! Ileana discusses the long hours, low pay, the deceptive agencies that facilitate these matchups, and the bizarrely manipulative and boundary pushing actions of these American host families. It sucks. Great talk. Also, Brandon inquires about incest in polyamory and then I had to cut almost all of Jennifer's response. Someone please let her know that I am in fact editing these to make her look better. Most of the time. It probably does make her look worse sometimes. I'm not the greatest judge of character. Warm Regards, Rob Oh, and here's links Ileana wanted us to share. This is the activist group she works with, including speaking to members of congress recently (who basically asked her, "Why do you think you deserve to live with dignity?") https://www.domesticworkers.org/ And a couple of their fact sheets on au pairs: https://www.domesticworkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Au-Pair-Myths-2021-—-New-Jersey-1.pdf https://www.domesticworkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Au-Pair-Fact-Sheet-2021-—-New-Jersey.pdf She also asked that we share the following articles for further reading. https://jacobin.com/2020/01/abolish-au-pair-program-domestic-workers-labor-massachusetts https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/au-pair-program-abuse-state-department-214956/ https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/the-au-pair-system-is-broken-we-dont-need-to-expand-it.html