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Let's talk about summer camp! Specifically non-diabetes sleepaway camp. We have a great roundtable to tackle a subject that can seem pretty scary but Stacey thinks is one of the best things she's ever done for her son. Joining Stacey are  Shelby Hughes who live with type 1 and has sent her daughter with T1D to diabetes camp and regular camp, and April Blackwell, an adult with type 1. April went to Space Camp as a kid - no surprise if you remember our previous episode with her. April works in Mission Control at NASA. Previous episode on camp here This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Check out Stacey's book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription (beta) Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dario health. Manage your blood glucose levels increase your possibilities by Gvoke Hypopen the first premixed auto injector for very low blood sugar, and by Dexcom help make knowledge your superpower with the Dexcom G6 CGM system.   Announcer  0:23 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:29 This week, let's talk about summer camp specifically non diabetes. sleepaway camp, we have a great round table to tackle a subject that can seem pretty scary, but it's honestly one of the best things I've ever done for my son. And my guests who went themselves agree.   April Blackwell  0:46 It sort of put that independence on me to you know, take care and manage my diabetes on my own. And I think that was a big step for me personally, just because I wanted to be like everyone else and have sleep overs and go to camp and stuff. So it was a big motivator for me.   Stacey Simms  1:02 That is April Blackwell, an adult who lives with type one talking about her summer camp experience. You'll also hear from Shelby Hughes. She lives with type one and sent her daughter with T1D to diabetes camp and regular camp. Plus, you'll hear from me, I've sent Benny to month long, regular sleepaway camp for many years. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of the show. I am so glad to have you along. I am always excited to have you here. But I this is one of my favorite topics. I love talking about camp. I think camp is so important for kids and for parents. If you're a longtime listener, you know that if you're new, Hi, I'm your host, Stacey Simms, and we aim to educate and inspire about diabetes with a focus on people who use insulin. So what's the big deal about camp, I really feel that going away from your parents, even if it's just for a couple of nights. And usually it's for at least a week, that's what we're going to focus on here is week long or longer camp programs, gives kids a gift, a gift of independence of confidence, a little bit of responsibility, diabetes or not. You learn who you are, when you're not with your home friends, your school friends and your family. You can try different things you can you know, invent different personalities, you can give yourself a nickname, I went to camp with a kid who had a completely different name at camp. And it's a huge tradition in my family, I went to the same summer camp for a little while as my dad, if that gives you any indication, my kids didn't go there. Because we we moved that was a northeast thing. And my kids are both gone to camp, of course in the southeast where we live. But I'm such a proponent of camp. And the flip side of that is, it's so great for the parents, because you have to know who you are when your kids aren't around. I know that seems weird, especially for diabetes moms and some dads. But we get so caught up in our kids, that when you are able to turn the Dexcom share off for a week or longer. It's liberating in a way that I think is incredibly valuable. Is it scary? Oh yeah, I worry every day, especially when he's not at diabetes camp. So we'll get to it. I do want to bring up a couple of quick points. Before we get started. I'm going to try to get a blog post out about this this week. Sometime. I'm a little behind on things. But I'm hoping to put that out because we cover a lot of issues in this Roundtable. But one thing we didn't really mention is the question of when is my kid ready to go to regular camp. This varies kid to kid various camp to camp. I think that if your child is able to check his or her own blood sugar, you know, with a meter not just looking at a CGM, because cgms can fail. And they do need to know how to check their blood sugar. If your child can administer insulin with his or her pump, if your child can change a pump, inset, and do all these things with supervision, I don't expect you know, eight 9, 10 year olds, 11 12, 13 year olds even depending on the kid to be able to do all these things perfectly. If they can do all that with some supervision, then I think you're at a good starting point. And the other question is of the camp itself. Are they willing to learn? Do you feel comfortable with the staff their medical or not, and their knowledge? You know, if you're sending a 14 year old to scout camp, you might feel comfortable that the scout leader knows how to administer glucagon and could call 911. If you're sending an eight year old, you may want to have a camp with more medical knowledge so they can recognize highs and lows and help with giving shots if needed. You know, that kind of thing. It all depends on many, many different factors. But these are important questions to ask yourself. We're going to go through with a round table I'm going to come back after with a couple of things that I think we missed that I want to make sure to mention. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Gvoke Hypopen and you know that low blood sugar feels horrible. You can get shaky and sweaty or even feel like you're going to pass out. There are a lot of symptoms and they can be different for everyone. I'm so glad we have a different option to treat very low blood sugar Gvoke Hypopen is the first auto injector to treat very low blood sugar. Gvoke Hypopen  is pre mixed and ready to go with no visible needle. Before Gvoke people needed to go through a lot of steps to get glucagon treatments ready to be used. This made emergency situations even more challenging and stressful. This is so much better. I'm grateful we have it on hand. Find out more go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Gvoke logo. g evoke shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma visit Gvoke glucagon dot com slash risk.   My guests this week love camp just as much as I do. Shelby Hughes lives with type one herself. Her daughter Caroline was diagnosed at age seven. She is now 11. She's the youngest of Shelby's three children. And Caroline went to diabetes camp and a regular camp and you will hear all about that. April Blackwell joins me as well. She lives with type 1 diabetes. She was diagnosed as a kid and she went to space camp and was then a counselor at Space Camp. Now you probably recognize April's name. We've talked to her before. And, gosh, I'm always all starstruck talking to her. She works at NASA. She has her dream job she says of flying the International Space Station for mission control. So she was kind enough, right that she was kind enough to come on and talk to me about camp this week, which was just absolutely amazing. So April, thank you so much for that. But I think her perspective is really valuable. And I hope you enjoy this whole conversation. So I am really pleased to welcome Shelby Hughes and April plaque. Well, we are going to talk about camp. Ladies, thank you so much for being here.   Shelby Huges  6:51 Thank you for having us.   Stacey Simms  6:53 I think we are all in agreement here that camp is cool camp is, great campus really good for kids. And for parents. So she'll be telling me about your, you know, when you decided to send your child to camp, how old she was, what kind of Camp it was, how long.   Shelby Hughes  7:08 So the first year that Caroline went to camp was before she was diagnosed diabetes. And I know it seems early, but the camp where my older two children had gone was you know, not a lengthy stay camp is about five nights, six days, and it was a church camp. But it was within, you know, reasonable driving distance from our house. And they offered a starter camp, the year that Caroline finished first grade. And it was a maybe a four night five day situation. So we sent her to that. And she had such a great experience. And so that just was on our radar like she was I just feel like camp is super important for all kids. So you know, we wanted to get her started as early as possible.   Stacey Simms  8:02 When she was then diagnosed with type one, did you hesitate sending her back.   Shelby Hughes  8:06 Now, um, I think she she was diagnosed in the middle of her second grade year. And the only hesitation was I was worried that the camp wouldn't accommodate her and would say no, she can't come we can't deal with that. So that was our only issue. And when we got in touch with the camp director, and she said no problem. You know, we'll we'll work it out. We were We were all ready to go.   Stacey Simms  8:33 Wow, that's great. All right, and we'll get into the details of what we had to we all have to do for those accommodations. And for us as parents to be able to just be able to sleep through the night ourselves when our kids are at camp. April. Tell me a little bit about your camp experience. How old were you when you went to camp? And did you have type one at the time already?   April Blackwell  8:54 Yeah, so I I have always with my nerdy persona, but I did go one summer I did a back to back space camp in California when that was still open. And the next week I went to diabetes, to very like different, you know, scenarios for a person with diabetes. And this was only about a year or so after my diagnosis. So I was still doing injections. I didn't have any basically no technology at all back in the dark ages. So I think in some ways that helps maybe because my parents weren't used to getting, you know, share data all day long. And so it sort of put that independence on me to you know, take care and manage my diabetes on my own. And I think that was a big step for me personally, just because I wanted to be like everyone else and have sleep overs and go to camp and stuff. So it was a big motivator for me to take my diabetes. He's on myself.   Stacey Simms  10:01 And I'm sorry, did you say how old you were when you went to that camp?   April Blackwell  10:04 I think I was like around 12 or 13.   Stacey Simms  10:07 Okay. Did you go back to diabetes camp? Did you go back to regular camp?   April Blackwell  10:13 I, I never went back to those two camps. Actually, I did some other like church camps and stuff. But my summers just seem to get really busy. So it was hard to fit in those other camps.   Stacey Simms  10:25 Yeah, that's the tough age. When she gets to be about 14. I think there's so much going on. Right? It's hard. And our camp experience, which I've shared before is that my daughter, like you, Shelby, my daughter went to this camp, my older child is three years older than Benny, and had a great time and would come home every summer and say, I can't wait for you to go. And I'd be like, there's no way he's going. And we were very fortunate, in my opinion, because it helped me, I don't know about Benny, but he was going to diabetes camp. And he was able to go when he was seven. So he went for a week to diabetes camp. And then the next summer, he went to diabetes camp for a week, and then his regular camp for two weeks. And I say we were lucky because it got me used to the idea of him being away understanding what needed to be done, even. And we'll get into this later, even adjusting basil rates for activity and things like that. But he went for two weeks when he was eight. We did not have share yet because it wasn't even around. And he just had his deck. No Did you have a Dexcom that first year he did not have a Dexcom that first year it was fingerstick only. And then the next year he had share he had Dexcom no share. And that next year at age nine, he went for a month and he has gone for a month every year since except for COVID. And this year, the camp is going to Israel for a month. That's the age group where they go to Israel. So we are dealing with a totally different in my opinion environment. To him, it's the same thing. But that's a different episode. So that's our summer camp experience. And it has been it has not been perfect Far from it. But it has been I think one of the seminal experiences of his childhood, and is certainly influenced him in a great way and given him a lot of confidence and independence. given me a lot of sleepless nights. Alright, Shelby, let me start with you, when your daughter was was going back to camp she was they were familiar with her, they knew what were some things that you talked to them about, to kind of get things, you know, set her up for success. Was there anything that you did at the time or learned since that made it a little easier for her and for the staff.   Shelby Hughes  12:28 So um, one of the things, they did have a full time nurse, which was great. And the nurse was very willing to be trained on all things pump related and CGM related. And she at the time had the Medtronic 670 g, which automatically adjusts her basil rate, as long as she's an auto mode. So I figured that would make things a little easier than people wouldn't have to be fooling with our pump, adjusting rates and whatnot. And also, I got, the director got me in touch with the cafeteria staff with the head of the dining hall. And she was fantastic. She sent me a list of everything that they were going to be serving every meal for the entire time. So that gave me the opportunity to, you know, give them some carb counts. So they were very willing to work with me in terms of, you know, figuring out what she was going to eat and and what the carb counts were.   Stacey Simms  13:34 April, I know, it was kind of a different time, as you said, you went you say no technology, but you had shots and you had your meter, which is tech. Did anybody help you? I mean, at 12, you probably were okay. But I would always assume that there might be a little supervision or kind of over the shoulder. Are you doing all right? Do you remember how it was handled? What you did?   Right back to April answering that question. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dario. And over the years, I find we manage diabetes better when we're thinking less about all the stuff of diabetes tasks. And that's why I love partnering with people who take the load off on things like ordering supplies, so I can really focus on Benny, the Daario diabetes success plan is all about you. All the strips and lancets you need delivered to your door, one on one coaching so you can meet your milestones, weekly insights into your trends with suggestions for you on how to succeed, get the diabetes management plan that works with you and for you. Dario is published Studies demonstrate high impact clinical results, find out more go to my dario.com forward slash Diabetes Connections. Now back to April answering my question of what her camp did to kind of help keep her on track.   April Blackwell  14:49 Yes, so this is actually something I think is really great about space camp. To the point that it inspired me to become a counselor while I was in college, but they're just You know, a very, they have everything planned out and under control as you would maybe expect space camp to have. So we had if you're familiar with Star Trek, we had a sick bay. That was it was just part of the camp experience. And even though Space Camp isn't necessarily geared towards kids with health conditions, it became just a seamless part of the whole camp experience. So, you know, every before every meal, the whole group would just swing by sickbay. And anyone who needed to take meds or like me check my blood sugar, take a shot, we just go into like they Well, everyone else was playing kickball or something, you know, for a few minutes. And it, it was awesome, because it didn't make you feel singled out at all. And it was just part of the whole camp experience. So I think that's a really great feeling as a kid. And it allows you to have that moment with the nurse or doctor to have sort of a one on one conversation about any sort of dosing Delta's that you should incorporate for upcoming activities.   Stacey Simms  16:11 She'll be did your kiddo have a similar experience like that? Did they do anything?   Shelby Hughes  16:16 That was kind of the same thing. There were other kids that took meds before meals, and they would kind of divert to the nurse's clinic. And she would, I think, I don't think she would take her insulin before meals that I think that the nurse would check her blood sugar, make sure her you know, everything was good with their pump. And then after, after dinner, I think she would, she would head by there and the nurse would would help her figure out how much to put in her pump.   Stacey Simms  16:48 It was really reassuring to me, I remember starting to kind of plan this in January of the year he when when he went in, you know, July or August or whenever it was, and calling the medical people and saying how are we going to do this, you know, at eight years old, I need eyes on him to make sure that he's changing his pump site to make sure that his insulin cartridge is full, you know, trust but verify you're very independent, good kid, but still eight years old, you know, you're not gonna let him walk around camp by himself all the time doing everything. So she laughed and said, Oh, that whole cabin goes gets medication. That age, you know, and you forget that there are other kids with issues go into camp. And what we we didn't have to work it out at all. Because that cabin and not everybody, but you know, a bunch of the kids in that cabin would get in a golf cart. This is a very large camp, get on a golf cart, and go up to the infirmary, which I'm going to suggest which should be Star Trek themed as sick. But they would go to the infirmary every night. And so when he was eight, that very first year, what we decided was, he'd go up with them every night, and they would physically look at the pump, and make sure that it was an animist pump. So had a battery, no charge, but they would check the battery, they would check that it had insulin, at least for the night, that his pump site, you know, they kind of kept track was changed every three days or whatever. And it just made me feel better that they had eyes on him. And it made them feel better, as well, something we added in the next couple of years, as I realized that, frankly, they weren't on top of the site changes as much as I thought they would be because they trusted Benny, who's a very wonderful kid, but isn't going to change his instead of three days, unless somebody is reminding him, let's face it. So what we did was at meals at most camps, they have meds in the dining hall, because a lot of kids have to take medications with food, at least at our camp to have a table. So I said, Why don't you just bring the inset every three days and pretend it's like an antibiotic or an ADHD medication, like write it down. And then every three days here, let's watch you change it. And he loved it because he truly had did not have to think about it at all. And that really helped once we started incorporating it more as a regular kind of medication thing. It made a lot more sense for everybody. And it took us I don't want to say three years before we thought about one of the things that I always like to think about is I want to make it easy on the camp. And I'm curious April, if your parents I know it's kind of a different time or whatever. It wasn't that long ago. Did your parents talk to them ahead of time or try to figure out ways to make it easier on them or do any education of the staff?   April Blackwell  19:18 Yeah, definitely. I know they were in contact with the the nurses group at their at Space Camp, before we even signed up to go to camp to make sure it was something feasible because you need to get your hopes up about going into camp and then you know have to do a detour. So that was really important and also our our endocrinologists, our pediatric and it was so good with this stuff. So they had you know, these resource papers to be able to give to the nurses topics to talk about while you're there checking in how to like set up all your supplies and have backup supplies and So I, I know my parents use those resources and share those resources with the nurses. They're at Space Camp.   Stacey Simms  20:08 You know, I meant to ask, one of the things that I get asked a lot is how does your child carry supplies around camp? I'd be curious to know, April and again, I'll start with you. How did you do it? obviously different technology. Did you carry stuff everywhere you went? Did you have a central location.   April Blackwell  20:25 So the space camp in California was pretty small. So we, we had everything centrally located at the nurse's station. When I was a counselor at Space Camp in Huntsville, Alabama. It was a bigger facility. And the part that I was actually a counselor at was a little ways away from where the nurse's station was. So if we had any kids with issues that would potentially need immediate attention, we just carried like a little backpack with us and had their supplies with us all the time. Sometimes we'd be out in the woods or swimming or you know, doing some other activities. So we just like every counselor carried a little backpack and we had our own stuff, but also our our camper stuff in there, too.   Stacey Simms  21:12 Yeah, that's great. How about you Shelby? Did your daughter carry stuff?   Shelby Hughes  21:15 She did. She had a little like a little sling back, you know, backpack where she just kept water and glucose tablets. She didn't carry major things like sight changes or insulin. That was all in the nurse's station. But yeah, just just emergency things.   Stacey Simms  21:37 We sent Benny with a Camelback, you know, the kind of backpack that you have water in. And that worked out well, for a couple years. Then he was like, yeah, forget it, just taking the sling bag. He liked to have inserts. Because the pool for a while was notorious. We did find some stuff that worked. Everybody's skin is different. And this is not an endorsement and it's not a paid endorsement. But I will endorse a state put medical patches has been the only thing that works for him. And like I said, everybody's skin is different. But for a long time he carried in sets just because the pool was such a pain for him. But also, you have to have reasonable expectations. I know you all are wonderful and your children are super responsible. But Benny got Viggo. He's gonna like best camper or over silly awards, at the end in their cabin. And he got like most likely to leave your bag everywhere. And they were always bringing him his bag. You know, it's just ridiculous. But as he got older, he got better at that. And you know, you do have to have your stuff with you. And now I don't know, it seems like everybody, all these teenagers carry bags, diabetes or not. They always have stuff with them, even the guy so it's not a big deal anymore. As much as I'm interested in your experience, too, as a counselor, what kind of things do you think set a camper up for success? And listen, when I'm talking about success, I don't mean that their blood sugar is 95 the whole time they're a camp, right? You're gonna go up, you're gonna go down, you're gonna have wonky numbers. But I mean, like they're able to have a good time with minimal interruptions. They're able to leave with confidence. Is there anything that kind of goes through your mind, as I say those things? Yeah, I   April Blackwell  23:09 think preparation is key. And not just logistically the supplies and the directions for the nurse. But actually practicing being away from your parents or whoever helps you manage your diabetes for some shorter period of time. And probably very dependent on the kid too. But just maybe spending the night at grandma's house or friend's house for a night or two, and seeing how everything works and how it goes. And it's also, I think, a little preparation for the parents. Because in my experience as a counselor, you know, even though I had diabetes, and I did have a couple campers that had diabetes, as well, you know, their parents would stay in a hotel that was close to site, even though most campers flew there to go to space camp, but their parents would stay in a hotel, they would check on him every night or at some time during the day. You know, they may even give them injections or boluses. They had one who sort of like pre loaded their kid before bed with a bunch of pudding. Because they always went low overnight, which to me sounds like maybe we should change some other settings. But that's not my call to make so right. You know, as counselors, we we need to just respect the wishes of the parents I think is really important. And so, I don't know if you know, having that practice beforehand, for both both sides of it, the camper and the parents, I think is a good idea beforehand.   Stacey Simms  24:47 Yeah, man, it's gonna be hard to do nothing and then go to a week or two weeks away if your kids never been out of the house or you shouldn't say it like that if your kids never spent an overnight somewhere. That's a great bit of advice. Shelby Any thoughts? I mean, is a bunch of questions there. But, you know, kind of to set up for success. Was there anything that you've learned over those years that your daughter was at this camp?   Shelby Hughes  25:09 Um, you know, I didn't think about it. But yeah, I think having them spend the night out before you, you know, shut them off for a week or more is good. Unfortunately, we had had some opportunities for Caroline to have sleep overs preceding the camp experience, so that that was good. And they weren't perfect. But you know, I think the goal is just to stay alive. And we're good.   Stacey Simms  25:39 We have a similar sense of humor to Shelby and I. So I know, I know, you have a sense of humor to April. It's just right. I mean, you know, we hate to be blunt, but you know that that's what everybody's scared of. Right? When you're sending your child off, and they they are fine, they are fine. They are   Shelby Hughes  25:57 now looking looking at CGM data after she came back from Camp, and I was horrified to see that she was, you know, running high throughout the night, we figured out later it was they were giving her like those Lara bars, Richard 25 carbs, you know, before bed, so, of course, she was running high all night, but you know, it was fine. She she had a good time, and she was alive. And that was what that was what mattered.   Stacey Simms  26:31 And I think this is a really good time to talk about expectations. Right? And, and what what are your goals for your child with diabetes going to a regular camp, and I'll kind of take an opportunity to speak on that, you know, if your goal is going to be that your child stay in a very tight range, you're going to set yourself up for disappointment most of the time. Now, some kids are rock stars, and for whatever reason, you know, they're they're able to do this, some camps are going to help you with that. But I always tell parents, you know, camp is not the time to worry about that. Incredible a one see that you're going to run and post on social media, but you shouldn't be doing anyway. Campus, the time for your child to learn about themselves, to stretch the limits, to push to make mistakes, to to figure out who they are when they're not at home. And the flip side of that is for you to figure out who the heck you are without your kids around. It is a gift and a full month. And I'm not an endocrinologist. So ask your doctor a full month at a slightly higher time in range right or slightly, excuse me slightly lower time and range a slightly higher blood sugar average, balanced with the incredible life experience that your kid is going to get is worth it. It's not you know, we're not talking about kids running at 300 for a month, if that's happening, you need to adjust things you need to I'll talk about checking in and things like that. But I know I'm in a bit of a soapbox here. But I really believe that giving Benny the opportunity to make mistakes and to learn at camp. And you know, I'll be I'll be very open because I know people tiptoe around this. You know, his agencies throughout his whole life have been fine. Sometimes they've been great. They've been amazing. Sometimes they've been minor. But a camp has average blood sugar was usually and this is over seven or eight years, anywhere between like 150 and 200. Sometimes I think one year is he came home and it was like 220. And that's when we realized we also need to make some changes, the hormones were insane. And we need to pour like gallons of insulin on him. Some of you heard that and are calling Child Protective Services. Right? You think I'm the worst? I am the world's worst diabetes. Mom. Some of you heard that and say, Oh my God, that's doable. I can I can live with that. You've got to figure this out. Because if you think you're going to send you if you think you're going to send your child to diabetes camp, and they're going to be 83 the whole time. They're there. You are in for disappointment. All right. I'll get off the soapbox. April. I saw you nodding. I'm not a terrible parent. Right?   April Blackwell  29:07 Absolutely. And my kids aren't quite old enough to send to camp yet there are only two and five. Oh, gosh, I'm not quite to the center camp age yet. But you know, they have spent nights away at grandma and grandpa's house before so even even though they don't have diabetes, you know, the worry still creeps in and, you know, making sure there's instructions or you know, times was really important to me for my first hit. And now with a second I'm like, whatever, you know, just have fun. Like, hopefully they get a nap in there at some point. Yes. So I imagine with diabetes, it's still very, you know, maybe amped up a little bit just because there are, you know, real consequences eventually for for numbers. But, you know, I think that's important to realize and kind of pull back that You know, when you're looking at how much a kid can gain from a camp experience, you just you can't put a number, even a blood sugar number on that. So as long as they're safe and healthy, I think it's an absolutely necessary experience.   Unknown Speaker  30:17 Wow. How about you, Shelby?   Shelby Hughes  30:21 Well, I was going to talk to the fact that at diabetes camp, which she also went to that same summer, that first year she went to non diabetes camp, she probably her her blood sugar was probably a lot higher at diabetes camp, because they're, they're more, I guess, more cautious about them being too low. So she told me, they would check her blood sugar and say, Oh, you're 150 here have a snack.   Unknown Speaker  30:51 Same thing.   Shelby Hughes  30:53 And we really we joke about that now, like, she'll say, Oh, I'm at 150. I should have a snack. But I can't remember the question. What am   Stacey Simms  31:02 Oh, that's okay. Um, and I think that's a good just quickly, I think this is really good to talk about context. Right? Because 150 at diabetes camp, have a snack. Makes sense. There are dozens of kids there. They are doing lots of activities. They are trying to keep everybody safe. They probably you know, at the time, I know every campus kind of trying to keep up here. Nobody's monitoring everybody's CGM. Right, so it's totally different setup. But when you're at home, 150 have a snack is funny. Because you know, she doesn't need it. Right. The question was the balance of running a little higher and being okay with that at camp?   Shelby Hughes  31:40 Oh, absolutely. You know, I think camp is, I guess, because I went to summer camp for a month, every year when I was a kid from the time I was nine till I was 15. And it shaped who I am today, I would not be the same person. If I had not had overnight camp experience. And I see my kids friends that don't go away to camp. And now they're 18. And they're state date. Some of them struggle with going away to college. And I feel like if they've gone to summer camp, they might be doing a little bit better. So I guess that's, I'm a, I'm a huge fan of sleepaway camp, you know, no matter what. So I agree, running a little bit higher to have that life experience is definitely worth it.   Stacey Simms  32:34 One thing I want to make sure to mention, I talked about this towards the beginning of our little roundtable here, and I wanted to circle back to it was adjusting basal rates, because when your diabetes camp, you know, they'll send you home with the form of we adjusted everything. Usually they knock the kid down 10 to 15% less basil, because it's so active. But by the time diabetes camp was over, Benny usually was getting 25% less insulin because they were so active. And it's really hilly, and they do lots of swimming, and there's hiking all this stuff. So what we would do is use that as a baseline for, you know, regular camp, I loved it, because it was like a great test for that week. And then he'd go for the month, we found regular this regular camp to be even more intense than diabetes camp. So we were always adjusting. And one of the things we did we put in place in the second year and going forward was, I would check in three days after he was there. They would call me if there was anything to deal with before that, they would call me three days in. And then every Sunday, we would have a check in. And usually the check in was like I need deodorant or stamp serve is ridiculous. It was never It was almost never about diabetes. But it was a good way for me to check in and say Do we need to adjust basil? Is everything going? Okay, how our supplies looking? That kind of stuff. So I know that she'll be your daughter was at Camp a little bit less time. But did you talk to them about when to call you or checking in on anything like that?   Shelby Hughes  33:58 The first year she went, we didn't have any scheduled check ins. It was such a short period of time, but the nurse was really, really great and would text me and just say, you know, everything's looking good. She changed her site today. And, you know, just just a brief, you know, let let mom know that things are things are okay. We didn't, you know, we didn't really have the need to do any formal. Any. And there were no times that we really needed to make adjustments because the the time there was so short.   Stacey Simms  34:29 April, I want to ask you about that kind of as a counselor on the other end, because you would be the one getting the phone call. I'm not gonna ask you as you said, You've got to listen to what the parents want. So I'm not asking to make a judgment call here. But what was helpful that the parents that some parents did that you would recommend, was there anything that they did that you'd say yes, that's a good one.   April Blackwell  34:51 I think preparing beforehand and being ready to talk to the counselor. I know every camp is a little different and how we did it at base camp was each team would have two counselors. So like a morning and afternoon, evening, and having a face to face with the person who's going to be next to your kid for eight or nine hours a day or more, I think is really important. And you know, it also kind of calibrates the counselor with how serious this could be, things to watch out for, because they may not be that familiar with it. You know, when when to call the nurse, because even that may be a little bit foreign. If you're not familiar, maybe specific signs your child has for going low or going high or times to check on them. I think that face to face time is really important if you're if you're able to do it. So I know my parents did that with my counselor. When I went to space camp, I remember them sitting down and talking to her face to face. And I did it with several of my campers as well. So I think it's really important.   Stacey Simms  35:59 That is that's really good. One of the things that I also like to talk about is there are very few non negotiables for me, when I send Benny to camp or my daughter for that matter, but I do have one. And this is the kind of thing where I tell the camp upfront look, you know, things are gonna happen. diabetes can be wonky. Usually Benny can troubleshoot you don't have to call me. And like most camps, they're gonna call you for kids running a fever, or you know, anything happens. anything out of the ordinary. But my non negotiable has always been if he throws up more than once in 24 hours, they must call me because more than Lowe's overnight, which I know most people are terrified. I'm not that worried about Lowe's overnight. You know, it's it's rare that those are actually emergencies. And Benny always sleeps at camp with a, you know, a drink by his side or glucose tabs by his side, which I should have mentioned up front. This is I'm getting off topic here. But one of the best things we did for both my kids was we found these next two bunk shelves. They're like fabric shelves or you know, bunk bed shelves. There's all sorts of different kinds of just, you bring them to camping and shove them into the bed. And then they had a little shelf next to them. So when Benny goes on sleep overs, I don't even think he does anymore. He's 16. And it's a different world for him. But when he was younger, he always had a Gatorade next time it's sleep over. So if you woke up and felt weird, our rule is drink the Gatorade, then check your blood sugar. And that's not how we do it at home. It's like the 150 have a snack. I would never say drink 25 carbs before he checked your blood sugar. But at a sleepaway camp, just do it and check and we can figure it out later. And he does the same thing at camp. But I'm worried about highs, I worried about dehydration, I worried about them not really knowing if he was high, because nobody was following him on Dexcom. They looked at his blood sugar when he was younger. So I was terrified of decay and things like that. Never happened never got close. But that was my one non negotiable. And that'll be my non negotiable for this summer, too. Do you all have anything like that? April, I'll start with you. You know,   April Blackwell  38:02 I don't know that my parents ever did just because I didn't physically have any symptoms like that outside the camp. And I think that really dictated what they discussed with the nurse and the counselors there. So I know that I did carry glucose tablets, those like really gross square ones that are in like, packaging. I don't even know if they have those anymore. But I remember sticking those in my I even got special shorts for when I went to space camp that were like cargo shorts. So they had extra pockets for the Yeah, but I don't remember them saying any specific symptoms like that. To the staff there.   Stacey Simms  38:43 Did and I should have asked you this earlier. Did anybody have to supervise you? I mean, at 12? You were probably independent enough, but I'm just curious, do you remember if anybody like watched you do injections or your meter over your shoulder or anything like that?   April Blackwell  38:57 I just checked my blood sugar at the nurse's station. So the nurse or sickbay? The nurse always did. You know, look at the number I assume she you know, processed that and and thought about the injection I was giving if it made sense. But no, I don't remember anyone supervising me really close? Yeah,   Stacey Simms  39:20 I think that's just kid age, you know, appropriate different stuff. You know, I don't think anybody really watches Benny anymore. But when he was eight, the I know, they looked over his shoulder. They didn't know what they were looking for. You know, I tried to give as much education as I could. But yeah, that's   April Blackwell  39:35 a good distinction, actually. Because, you know, at Space Camp when I was a counselor, we had kids from age seven all the way to 18. And you've definitely treated each age group differently and looked for different things. And it was even a different sort of mindset for the counselors. You know, if you were a counselor for the younger age group, you usually just work with the younger age group. And it was different set of counselors that worked with older age groups. So yeah, you kind of just get you trained yourself on what seven and eight year olds need from a counselor, which is more like a mothering thing than what 17 and 18 year olds?   Stacey Simms  40:14 I mean, at that age, you're still like, are you using soap in the shower? Like, you know, there's all sorts of different things that poor counselors have to do shall be saved, you have to have a non negotiable or anything like that. Um,   Shelby Hughes  40:26 you know, it's funny, because I got, I think, kind of a set of directions from you before I sent Caroline to camp that you had, you gave me like a draft of what you had given to Ben? Oh, yeah. And so I can't remember if there was anything in there that was you know, about vomiting. Okay, so I must have had that in there. But I don't remember, particularly going over that with the nurse or with the counselor. Just because it's, it's honestly, it's not ever we've not ever had an issue. vomiting is never caused any kind of a of a problem for us. So, and back then I was still new. So I really probably wasn't even on my radar. Yeah, let now there there were no non negotiables. But now thinking back maybe there should have been fun. You know,   Stacey Simms  41:22 I think it's all a question too, of trusting the medical staff and you had already had kids go through that. So like I said, they're going to call they called me, you know, for my daughter hit her head on the side of the pool. They call you for the he's got a rash they call generally, they're going to call you for those things. And we've where I got a knock wood or something Benny's never had even large ketones maybe once or twice in 14 years, he's never had vomiting associated with dehydration or things like that. Knock on wood. We've never had that problem. But for some reason that stuck in my mind is something like, Uh huh. This is going to be the thing that happens at camp. And you know, I am I'm kind of Cavalier and I make jokes, and I worry a lot. Right? You, you can't help it, you still send them. But and I think that's just a mom thing. I mean, April, your kids are too little for camp, and they don't have diabetes. But you've got to worry a little when you send people to grandma's house. That's just mom stuff.   April Blackwell  42:21 Exactly. Yep. Absolutely.   Stacey Simms  42:23 Yeah. And mentioning the the forums, Shelby, I forgot that I did that, you know, I have these like, they're nothing. It's nothing that you can download. It's nothing formal. Shelby and I have known each other a long time. So I just sent her my stuff. But one thing that was very helpful if your endo is on board with this, we typed up kind of an action plan. And I'll look at it and make a note at the end of this episode, or in the show notes. It wasn't super detailed. It was kind of more if this, then that, like Benny will do this. And we hope you'll support with that or like really insets to the med table or go into sick beta, check your blood sugar, those kinds of things are written out. And then we had our endo sign it. Now, my endo, God love him will pretty much sign anything I give him at this point, right? I mean, it's been 14 years, he knows we're okay. I'm not going to give him anything crazy. He would tell me if he thought it was off base. But this was fantastic. Because the magic words are always my doctor says. And if the camp sees that the endo has signed off on this plan. Not only are they going to probably follow it more closely, they're going to be much more reassured. Because a medical professional has looked at it. So I found that to be I forgot all about that Shelby, thanks for bringing that up. I found that to be really good. And I did that my kids went to day camp to and Benny went to you know, regular day camp. And that was super helpful for them. And we're actually doing to get in for Israel. You know, and my endo will Cyrus endo will sign off on it. So that's pretty good.   April Blackwell  43:50 I was just gonna say I think using your endo as a resource can be really helpful because if it's a local camp, they may have other kids in the in the practice that are going or have gone and have tips for interacting with the staff there. You know, the internet is also a great place to look up some Reddit forums on certain camps and see what's going on. And, you know, there's other diabetes specific forums to ask questions about specific camps and if you are able to talk to a parent that is sent a kid to a specific camp i think that's that's worth a lot, actually. Because Yeah, inside scoop, so   Stacey Simms  44:30 definitely. And it's funny with our camp we had there were two kids who are already at that camp during the current time with type one and one of them did not want anyone else to know. He, I think that's a very tough way to go. We respected it. My daughter knew she was her age at the older group, and we respected it and nobody, you know, did anything. But I think that to me, I would be extremely uncomfortable sending my child to camp with him wanting to keep his diabetes a secret from as many people as possible, because you never know who is going to need to help. And another one of my, I would call it a non negotiable but I think a kid who's going to sleepaway camp who's got type one should know how to check his or her own blood sugar using a meter. Because things happen, even if you're Dexcom, you know, all over 24 seven, gotta know how to do your meter, got to know how to use your pump, gotta know how to change your own insets even if there's help there. And and I think you have to be a kid who's gonna raise your hand and ask for help. And that's something that you can teach. But you've also got to know your kid will do. And I see everybody nodding Shelby, was that something that you either you knew your kid would do? Or you had you thought about that?   Shelby Hughes  45:44 Well, Caroline's pretty responsible. I mean, I'm not gonna say 100% compliant, you know, she still forgets to bolus and she's, you know, she's 11 now, and she's independent at school. And still, she'll forget to balls for lunch, and, you know, whatever. But I felt like she was responsible enough to do those things. She, she, she knew how to check her blood sugar. I taught her how to change her sights. She doesn't probably her biggest issue is asking for help, because she does not want to seem different. And she doesn't want to call attention to herself. She just choose a shy kid. She does not like calling attention to herself about anything, including diabetes. But I think that if she really needed help, she would speak up.   April Blackwell  46:38 You know, I don't have a kid with diabetes myself. So it's a little bit hard for me to say, but I think it would be something great to tell the counselor when you meet with them, and just say, hey, like, they're not gonna tell you when they need help. I know, I actually experienced that myself. I remember actually, the moment we pulled up to diabetes camp and got off the bus and there was like a, everyone check their blood sugar moment, and my blood sugar was in the 40s. Just because I was like, so overwhelmed about going to camp with all these diabetics that I had never been around that many people a day. And she was like, do you feel low? And I was like, Yeah. Like, it was just, it was like, almost out of body experience. So camp itself can kind of maybe mask those, you know, symptoms or times when someone would feel comfortable speaking up, just being overwhelmed at being at camp and being excited about it could change a little bit. So it's it's something good to bring up with the counselor. I think   Stacey Simms  47:41 I do, too. We also had the counselors kind of check on him every night. And it wasn't Benny is your diabetes. Okay, what's going on? like we talked about it so that he would just say, Benny, are you okay? Like, Benny? Are you set? And what that meant was? Is your pump charged? Does your pump have insulin in it? Is your blood sugar? Like, are you feeling okay? Do you need me for anything? And so it didn't become this big conversation every night. But I still felt and I you know, again, I see you guys know, I say all the time about Benny, he's a great kid, and he's doing really well. But you know, he forgets he's staying down. He will wake up at two in the morning. Oh, my pumps, no charge, you know, things like that. So to set him up for success, we really felt like having the counselors involved, but not overly, you know, in his face about diabetes was very helpful. I don't know what really went on. This is my fantasy of what I think happened to camp I'm not sure because they tell me these things happen. But you know, Ben, he's gonna turn 25 and write his own book and it's gonna be like, nothing happened the way you thought I shouldn't say that. Like, that's terrible to put in people's   Unknown Speaker  48:42 but I do have you know, I   Stacey Simms  48:43 have my doubts that my perfect systems are executed perfectly.   Shelby Hughes  48:49 Alright, before I let you all go, is there anything you want to say any good stuff about camp anything we missed? You know, nothing, nothing earth shattering but after two years of regular camp, and two years of diabetes camp, and then of course last year, there were no pants. She was we before COVID she had made the decision that she only wanted to go to diabetes camp. I think and I and I we respected that. You know, she and I asked her why and she said I just don't like being the only one there with diabetes. So of course this summer now you know, everything's up in the air. The the one camp that we are looking at is now going to a modified sleepaway. Maybe I don't even know so I think we're just gonna skip camps all together this year, too, which is so unfortunate because she's getting to be the age where she won't want to get a camp when she's older anyway, but that's it. She just she she prefers diabetes camp now because she's not singled out. Cool.   Stacey Simms  49:57 April, any last words?   April Blackwell  50:00 I would just say one thing to watch out for is even if a camp generically allows or supports people at type 1 diabetes to come, there may be certain activities that are still restricted. I know at Space Camp, for instance, the older kids were allowed to go scuba diving in our underwater astronaut trainer. But that was not allowed if you had type 1 diabetes. So I guess, you know, think about kind of the activities that are going to happen at camp. And that's going to somehow negatively affect your your T one DS sort of mental state on that, because I think it would have for me, you know, being that singled out, not just check your blood sugar, but you can't do this activity. So be sure to think about that. And then the other thing is just, probably your kid's gonna be fine. And if they run into any problems, it's probably not even diabetes related. It's like, you know, they have a problem with this friend, or, you know, they're homesick or they're missing their dog or something. So keep that in mind that there's a lot more to kids than diabetes.   Stacey Simms  51:08 Wow. And you know, that's such a great point about the scuba, because there usually is an alternative. For big time adventure stuff. There isn't always so it's good to check. But I'll give another example. Two years ago, gosh, I can't believe how much time has gone by the big activity for Benny's age group at this camp included like this cave thing. And I don't know why it was cave swimming. I don't remember. But it was tiny spaces. And the way they described it like I wanted to, I wanted to throw up just because forget diabetes. I was so claustrophobic thinking about it. But my daughter had done it. Because she went to this camp. And we talked about it. And I was super uncomfortable. Like I let him do anything. But like holy cow, if you get stuck in a cave, like Oh, just type one. You know, they were they didn't say anything to me. I we didn't get that forward. I even asked them I asked Benny. And he was like mom, no way. I just sounds like a hassle for everybody. And he just didn't like the idea of it. So we really dodged that bullet. But there was an alternative program for any kid who didn't want to do it. Because it's it really was kind of scary sounding. And so that was great. But if you were you know, and the alternative program wasn't playing cards in the, you know, inside, it was doing another outside fun activity. But that's a great idea to check because there are there are going to sometimes be limitations, especially at camps that do not cater to people with type one who don't have all the facilities and all the knowledge. And we have to learn sometimes that there's there's going to have to be an alternative. There's going to have to be an adjustment that we in our children have to make. Does it stink? Yeah. But sometimes I think it's the price you pay for an overall wonderful life lesson and experience. Later, ladies, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate your time to share your experiences. It was so great. And I shall be I hope camp. Hope diabetes camp happens. or different things, you know, go this summer, but but keep us posted.   Shelby Hughes  52:59 All right. Thanks for having me.   Unknown Speaker  53:01 Oh my gosh, thank you all. Alright, thanks, Stacy.   Stacey Simms  53:10 Lots more to share. I'm going to talk about food, carb counting glucagon training, and share and follow at sleepaway camp. In just a moment. I want to add a couple of things to the end of this episode. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And one of the most common questions I get is about helping children become more independent. These transitional times are tricky elementary to middle middle to high school. I mean, you know what I mean? Using the Dexcom really makes a big difference. For us. It is not all about sharing follow, although that is very helpful. Think about how much easier it is for a middle schooler to just look at their Dexcom rather than do four to five finger sticks at school, or for a second grader to just show their care team the number before Jim. At one point Benny was up to 10 finger sticks a day and not having to do that makes his management a lot easier for him. It's a lot easier to spot the trends and use the technology to give your kids more independence. Find out more at Diabetes connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   Little bit more about camp and some tips and tricks that we learned along the way. Shelby mentioned the menu. I did this as well, I got the menu from Camp. And most camps know what they're serving every single day or they have you know, very even if they don't have a strict menu, they know the foods that they will be serving. So go ahead and ask for that. I broke it all down. I made a calendar is like a stamp that I laminated it, but let me close enough. I think they use it for the first year or two. But Benny found it was much easier to just guesstimate on carbs. I mean, he's that kind of kid. They were comfortable with him doing it. And one of the things that we started doing because honestly most camps serve very high carb foods. Think about what camp foods are going to be for kids, right you're you're serving them. food to sometimes hundreds of kids, some of these camps are very big. So it's gonna be quick and cheaper and full of carbs. So what I had him start doing was as soon as you walk into the dining hall, give yourself 25 carbs, you know, you're getting 25 carbs, and then do the rest after. And that really helped him at least get started. So he wasn't going that much higher than he would have, you know, after a big breakfast or things like that. That was very helpful. It is never going to be an exact science at these camps. Some places will have a helper. I know some parents have been very lucky. And they have a counselor who will sit or you know, a staff member who will swing by Ben, he hated that the first year, he had to show them what he was eating. And I didn't think about how difficult that would be, especially for a kid who likes to eat, and is on the bigger side. He got some blowback. And that was actually not a great decision that we made. I'm not sure I would do that again. You know, if you wanted second helpings, a lot of times he got an eyebrow raised at him. Luckily, he's a pretty confident cool kid. We talked about it, he shook it off, and he ate what he wanted to, but, but we had some blowback on that, that I had to discuss with them at at the end of the summer. We learned they learned it was it was a good experience all around. But just a heads up that those kind of things can happen. glucagon training. This is another non negotiable. I didn't mention it. But I think this is really important. The newer glucagons, Baqsimi, Gvoke Hypopen that I talked about, make this much easier. But I did the red box training, you know, those of you who were diagnosed, gosh, it's really only a year or two that those products have been out. So those of you diagnosed two, three years ago, know what I mean, you take the red box out, and you have to teach everybody how to swirl don't shake, you know how to inject that needle. It's much easier now. But I think it's important to talk to the camp about who would who would administer that. And we decided it would not be his counselor. The counselors in the cabin are all connected to the infirmary. And somebody is on call 24 seven, so they would walkie talkie. And what we decided was if they felt felt they needed it, they would call the infirmary to come down. And they could be there in less than five minutes. I mean, it was really something that we felt good about. I think with vaccine me now and hypo Penn, whichever you choose, I would be fine with a counselor doing it. I just figured with the red box stuff. Everybody messes that up. I mean, so many studies show that most people even more trained, don't do it correctly. So I kind of stopped training people on it, which is why I legitimately Yes, it's a commercial. But I'm so glad to have alternatives. Because it's not safe not to train people on that and never had to use it. But that's another non negotiable. And let's just talk for a minute about share and follow. Sometimes the decision is made for you on this because there's no Wi Fi or cell signal at camp. Benny's camp is in the middle, we call it the middle of the middle of nowhere. Wi Fi service is terrible cell service is pretty much non existent. Another carrier has a better luck there. You know Verizon is okay. But we have at&t that sort of thing. The first year he went to camp, he didn't even have Dexcom. As I mentioned, the next year he didn't have share. So by the time he was going back to camp for the third year, I was like, I'm not gonna use shared camp, it wasn't even a concern. It wasn't even a thought. And I get a lot of parents who look at me like I'm absolutely bananas for not sharing. So here's what I have to say about that. I actually think it's better overall, if you can let your child go to camp without the share and follow. Now, you've got to talk to the counselors about the beeping, you know, Benny had his receiver, always next to him in bed. And what that means if he's beeping overnight, right, if he's low, and it's urgent, low goes off, they've got to make sure he's okay. But they're in a cabin together. They don't need to remote monitor him. They're in the same room with him. So they're gonna hear that beeping. So I always felt okay about that. And then we use the T slim pump. So the CGM is right on the pump. So you don't need the receiver anymore. But I did a talk about camp earlier this year. And I had a mom and I didn't I don't think about this, because we don't use Omnipod. She said, I have to use the phone. We don't have a receiver. Our camp has a policy, no screens, no screens, even a phone is a screen. So I immediately was thinking how is she going to do this. And I think I would rather have my child who is used to using Dexcom. Use the technology, you don't have to take the Dexcom away, right. So use the phone as the receiver because the Bluetooth will still work, haven't put it on airplane mode or whatever. But the Bluetooth will still work in the phone, the alarms will still go off, talk to the camp about, hey, she's not playing games, they're not taking photos, make sure your kid is following the rules. If you don't have a receiver, and the phone is all you've got, I think that that is better and more realistic than expecting a child who's used a Dexcom either since day one, or for a couple of years to go back to finger sticks. You're just not going to get the results that you want. I mean, let's be real. As I said in that commercial, I just said you know you're not going to do the middle schoolers not going to do the finger sticks if they've got the Dexcom Why would they do So those kind of accommodations can really help. But in terms of the parents following along, here's the question, if the camp lets you do this, and you think it's vitally important, you guys have to set up a plan with camp. If it's 2am, and the low alarm goes off, Who are you calling? What are you doing? Right? Who are you alerting, they already know, they're already on it. And if you want to double check, pay, that's your prerogative as a parent, if the camp agrees to it. You just have to have a plan. I would not know who to call, I guess I would call the infirmary. And I couldn't call the cabin, you have to kind of figure out those things. And I know we're getting really long. But just one more quick thing. I have seen this happen at our local diabetes camp. If your child uses non FDA approved technology, you nightscout folks know what I'm talking about you openaps people, I see you out there, you have to have a conversation with the diabetes camp, about whether they will be allowed to use it. Now, this is years old of this conversation. So most diabetes camps have settled it. I talked to a mom who loops with Omni pod, which is not FDA approved right now about what to disclose to her regular summer camp. Isn't that an interesting question? It's not FDA approved. But she's sending them there with the loop. Because it's better, she gets better control, then the Omnipod by itself. So, you know, my advice was to kind of explain it to them, you'd have to go into all the details about you know, big red flashing light, this is FDA, this is not FDA approved, blah, blah, blah. But I thought that was a really interesting question. Maybe we'll put that in our survey this week. Or I'll ask in the Facebook group, you know, how much do you disclose to people who don't really understand and don't need to really understand, you know, she she needs to know that if the Reilly link craps out or gets wet, you know, that kind of thing at camp, she has to have a plan B. And I think that's fine. But man, you know, the Do It Yourself crowd is fantastic. You know, I love you. But when you've got people who have liability issues because they're taking care of your kids, I'd be interested in hearing some of those stories and how you've done it and maneuvered and made everybody comfortable. Okay, well, thanks for sticking around. thank you as always to my editor John Bukenas from  audio editing solutions. Thank you for listening. We've got a classic episode coming up in just a couple of days. Advice for taking diabetes, to Disney to Disney World and Disneyland because those vacations are unlike many others, and they're very expensive. So how do you do it? We'll talk about it. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here in just a couple of days. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Announcer 1:02:42 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media.   Benny  1:02:46 All Rights Reserved all wrongs avenged.  

In this episode, Howard Wilkinson joins the discussion as another special guest. Howard and I will explore the myths surrounding our holiday: why does Cincinnati have the privilege of hosting the season opener? (It’s not because of the 1869 Red Stockings.) Are we always the first game of the season? (No, and that is not a recent phenomenon.) Have the Reds always been scheduled to open at home? (No) Did anyone ever issue an edict (No) or are some of these traditions more a result of geography (yes) or pressure applied by the Reds? (Yes)   Your host, Randy Freking, is the author of “Cincinnati's 150-Year Opening Day History: The Hoopla Started with a Parade” and co-author of “@Titanicstruggle: The Best of MARTY BRENNAMAN” Get your copies at openingdaybook.com and BestofMarty.com

Beautiful little boys grow into great, big, monosyllabic, forgetful teens.  Holly and Andrew chat to Australian author Maggie Dent about how to support our boys through what can be a very challenging time for both them and us. Why don’t they want to talk to you any more? Why do they forget absolutely everything? Will they ever be your lovely little man again? Maggie has all the no-nonsense wisdom you need. Plus, Andrew can’t decide if he had a nail or fail this week. Maybe you can be the judge... His daughter’s ‘in-laws’ came over for the first time and Daddo burnt dinner! Did he apologise for it? No… Did everyone gobble it up… also no. Nail or fail? LINK ‘From Boys To Men’ by Maggie Dent https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/qJ14j    CREDITS Hosts:Holly Wainwright & Andrew Daddo Producer: Pariya Taherzadeh & Lize Ratliff CONTACT US Send us an email at tgm@mamamia.com.au Looking for a community of like-minded parents? Join our Mamamia Parents Facebook Page... https://www.facebook.com/groups/1047713658714395/   Want a weekly parenting newsletter from Holly Wainwright?  Sign up here... https://www.mamamia.com.au/newsletter/ Looking for other podcasts to listen to?  You'll find all our Mamamia shows at https://mamamia.com.au/podcasts/ This episode is brought to you by Mamamia. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Howard Wilkinson joins the discussion as another special guest. Howard and I will explore the myths surrounding our holiday: why does Cincinnati have the privilege of hosting the season opener? (It’s not because of the 1869 Red Stockings.) Are we always the first game of the season? (No, and that is not a recent phenomenon.) Have the Reds always been scheduled to open at home? (No) Did anyone ever issue an edict, (No) or are some of these traditions more a result of geography (yes) or pressure applied by the Reds?(Yes)   Your host, Randy Freking, is the author of Cincinnati's 150-Year Opening Day History: The Hoopla Started with a Parade.  Get your copy at openingdaybook.com.

This is the final roundtable for 2019 as we head into the new year. And this one packs a few punches. First, we dive into Instagram news where the number of likes are now hidden from your view. How will it impact bourbon Instagram stars? Then we roll into the meat of the podcast talking about Pappy and Sazerac vs The Secondary Market. Lastly, we share what we are thankful for in 2019. I also want to take this opportunity to say thank you to you, the dedicated listeners and viewers of Bourbon Pursuit. We really appreciate the hours you spend with us every week to hear us talk about bourbon. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits works with distilleries from all over the world to source and blend the best ingredients into America’s most curious cask strength whiskies. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Warehouse X: http://www.experimentalwarehouse.com/ Marianne Eaves at TEDxBroadway: https://www.tedxbroadway.com/talks/2019/11/19/making-the-impossible-and-doing-the-unthinkable-marianne-eaves This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about vintage whiskey collections. Instagram removes likes. Does this impact bourbon influencers? Do Instagram posts drive people to your content? Will the lack of likes deter people from using influencers? Should Instagram hide the number of followers? Do you think Sazerac is behind the secondary take down? Why make the Van Winkles the face of the blame? Should they raise the SRP of Pappy? Do you think other distilleries are happy they took action on the secondary market? What are you thankful for with bourbon in 2019? Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Nick from BreakingBourbon.com , and Brian from sippncorn.com for joining. 0:00 me think about it if you're like a craft distiller you work your ass off like making it all anyone ever asked like, was it? Did you distill it? Yeah, yeah, we produced it. No Did you distill it? 0:13 Right there the label 0:15 and then and then they then you taste it like oh, that sucks. I'd rather have MGP 0:32 Happy Thanksgiving everybody. It is Episode 229 of bourbon pursuit and I hope you're out there, drinking a little bit of Turkey today and just taking it nice and easy. Now Buffalo Trace just wrapped up its second experiment utilizing its custom made experimental warehouse x. Now this experiment began in 2016 and focus on how temperature affects the aging process. The first experiment ended in 2016. And that one focus on natural like keeping barrels various stages of light for two years. And the second experiment, which just ended a few weeks ago at the end of October, determined how barrel activity correlates with temperature changes, keeping to the four warehouse chambers constant and vary the other two chambers. And throughout the experiment, they track temperature fluctuations from five degrees to 109 degrees Fahrenheit, and monitored the barrel pressures ranging from about negative 2.7 psi to a positive 3.2 psi, in total 9.1 million data points were collected during the second experiment. And now the next experiment will expand on the distilleries temperature experiment by focusing on how temperature and these swings affect whiskey activity in the barrel. And there's gonna be a two year experiment and that's going to begin in late November. Buffalo Trace estimates that it's going to collect more than 70 million data points by the end of this 20 year project. For more information about warehouse texts, you can visit the experimental warehouse.com good friend of the show Marion Eve got it. chance to tell her story on nothing else. But the TED stage. TED talks are a personal favorite of mine. And I feel that she did an absolute amazing job on this. Not only do you get to hear her story of getting into bourbon, working your way up the ranks at Brown Forman, delete for castle and key and her eventual departure from castling key but she really shines a spotlight on bourbon as a whole. It's a 10 minute TED talk that was from TEDx Broadway. And you can watch it with the link in our show notes. This is the final round table for 2019. As we head into the new year, and this one, it packs a few punches, we first dive into the Instagram news where the number of likes are now hidden from your view. And if that's going to impact our bourbon Instagram stars that are out there. Then we roll into the real meat of the podcast talking about Pappy and saceur act versus the secondary market. There's lots of good ideas and theories behind this one. Lastly, we share what we're thankful for in 2019. And I also want to take this opportunity Say thank you to you. We really do appreciate the hours that you spend with us every single week to hear us talk about bourbon. And I hope each and every one of you have a happy Thanksgiving. Now it's time for Joe to tell us a little bit more about barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 3:18 It's Joe from barrell bourbon. We work with distilleries from all over the world to source and blend the best ingredients into America's most curious cask strength whiskies. Find out more at barrell bourbon com. 3:32 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. This week's idea comes from Ian, that bourbon guy on Twitter. Ans what are the top 10 vintage Bourbons everyone must chase on their whiskey journey. That's a great question and it's one I've actually thought a lot about because I like to collect vintage whiskies. For me it all starts with the distilleries you want to have like a whiskey from every distillery that matters to you or every state. For me, I can't speak for everyone else. But I had to have some Mexican bourbon and some Canadian bourbon in my collection. So when I started my hunts, I captured some of those that so these are historic Bourbons that would have been made in these markets before the 1964 declaration of bourbon being a unique product the United States so those are two right off the bat. And the Mexican bourbon was not so good. The Canadian bourbon actually pretty pretty good. And then I have to always have something from national distillers national distillers was really good parent company that used to operate old Taylor and Old Crow they sold to beam in 1987 and Old Crow turned a shit in thankfully says rack acquired old Taylor from beam which was slowly To shit as well. So I always have to have something from national distillers. And then I like to go for my favorite distillers of all time. And that would be someone like Edwin Fudd, or book or know or Lincoln Henderson or Parker beam, you know something that these great legendary iconic distillers would have touched. So that's not really a brand per se, but you got to do your homework to find out where they worked and what they did and what brands they touched on that and so that is that is one tool that I have always used as well, and you got to get something from the 1800s. I mean, it's kind of a it's a difficult acquisition. But if you can find the old bottle from the 1800s you feel pretty special about it. It's a pretty pretty cool feeling when you hold in your hand something that was created during President Benjamin Harrison's time I also like to always have a bottle from stetzer Weller Wild Turkey, old brown Forman products like old old forester from the 1960s the President's choice, and something I'm very fond of as getting those private labels that they used to make. Back in the day places like Macy's and grocery stores, they would all have private labels a bourbon. You're starting to see a little bit of a comeback of this, but it was really popular back in the day. One thing I like to stay away from though are the decanters, especially the Jim Beam decanters because you really never know how much is left in there. You know, some of them might be like too much lead in there, whatever. But there's a lot of decanters that I will not touch of course, that completely contradicts what I'm about to tell you. And that is the Old Crow chespin piece from the 1960s. It was absolutely it's absolutely the greatest bourbon I have ever tasted. And if you've never had the opportunity to taste it, you can go check out a bottle at the Bardstown bourbon company, the library there I curated. So those are really some of my key points when I'm when I'm looking for vintage whiskeys and they're all very personal you got to remember whiskey is is about your own journey as well as the hunt. So find out what it is you like and what stories means something to you and what people meant something to you and go chase them. So that's this week's above the char thanks a lot T and for that great idea and if you have an idea for above the char make sure you hit me up on Twitter, Instagram, or even YouTube now. Just search my name Fred MiniK. Until next week, cheers 7:39 Welcome everybody. It is the bourbon Community Roundtable number 39 and this is bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. This is one of the most favorite times of the podcast especially for us because we get to bring on all our good friends with inside of the community here the best bloggers around some of the best lawyers around that know about bourbon as well. And to be held in accountants. I mean, we got two accounts. Yeah. Got it, we're gonna we're going to start creating our own trade business at the end of this. And not only that is you know, we have people from all around the nation that are joining and watching us live and being a part of this conversation as well. Right now we're sitting around 63 concurrent viewers, hopefully gets 100 by the end of this. But with that, let's go ahead because we've got a whole lot of information to talk about, and I want to kind of get into this. So, Ryan, Fred, here we are again, man. You guys look looking forward tonight. 8:31 Yeah, I think this is a very important discussion to have tonight, and maybe it's one we've all wanted to have. 8:39 What are we discussing? 8:42 What happens what happens when you don't do the homework? Yeah. 8:45 I'm super excited to discuss that too. 8:48 Nice. Nice. Alright, so let's go ahead and round in our first one. So Blake from bourbon or how are you? I'm 8:53 doing well doing well. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, into my introduction. Yeah, I guess it's just our usual thing is usual Alright, I'm Blake from bourbon or if you're watching this you probably already know this is the, you know, longest standing tradition of making the roundtables, like call me the kin, Kendrick. Ken Griffey, also Cal Ripken of the round table but that's a follow me on all the social medias. Bo you are Bo and r.com as well as seal box calm, only have URLs where you have to spell it out and people are caught on What was that again? So seal boxes. Es el ba ch s. 9:36 And you got a new one right Southern barnburner I have that 9:39 one. I don't know. Is that is that you 9:43 know, is there a southern bourbon or out there? Yeah. 9:47 Yeah. Someone's copying you. 9:49 Talk boy hop on those URLs. Blake. Oh, yeah. 9:53 Go ahead and put that cease and desist out. 9:55 I'll get it together tonight. 9:57 You know, speaking of that, the kind of fakes and stuff that Come out there. Remember Ted Finnick? Remember those articles? Yeah, that 10:04 was whatever happened he had like a solid two month run and then all the sudden 10:08 it happens every now and then someone will come out and try to, you know, impersonate me or do some kind of, you know, fun satirical deal. And that's great. I love it. But what they don't realize is if you're going to try to impersonate me You better try to keep up because I go fast and 10:25 they realize like oh man this this is work now like 10:32 I'll just go back to making fun of him and in a Facebook forum you know and that's good 10:38 all right, Brian, you're up next buddy. 10:40 Yeah, thanks guys for having me again is Brian with sip and corn you can find me on the all the socials as sip and corn and you can also find me at bourbon justice calm. Look forward to a good show tonight. Guest 10:51 fantastic and Nick. 10:53 And I'm Nick with breaking bourbon calm. April 1. Breaking vodka calm that's been known to happen. But only that one day. And I can find us on all this socials at breaking bourbon. And thanks again for me on guys. 11:08 Absolutely. It's always great to have all of you on especially everybody else that's here in the chat. So let's go ahead and kind of start with our first question. If people in the chat they have something that they'd like to say with us as well speak now, we're going to be like to be able to put it out there for you. So the first we're going to talk about is the new change that happened with Instagram. Now, this is something that kind of, you know, maybe impacts the bourbon world a little bit, but more or less, just like the influencer market that's out there. So one of the recent changes that happened was they removed the ability to see the amount of likes that an individual has on a specific kind of post. And this can be for a few different reasons. You know, there's a lot of things that you know, you can buy likes out there, that's, that's not unheard of. You can buy followers as well, but one things you really can't buy or, you know, good comments or engagement and stuff like that. So I guess the one thing I'll kind of hand it over to what sir, who has the The most followers I'm it's either between bourbon or breaking who's got the most followers or aging? Probably. 12:05 Yeah, I'd have to check. I think we're just under 70,000 12:08 Yeah, okay. 12:12 I got 7070 12:16 Yeah, there's there's no thousand after it, 12:18 you'll get it. I mean, you know, I'll say this you know, our, it's all 100% organic we we've never gotten into, you know, anything where you sign up to get followers in some way, we pretty much just post What we want to talk about what we're drinking. We try to keep it light on there as much as possible, of course, will will post new content and that kind of thing. But we've really made that clear with you know, anybody who wants to, you know, be sponsored in some way that you know, really it's about what we want to do so sure, if you want to send us a sample of something, or a bottle That's fantastic, you know, we'll maybe review it maybe do a TNT you know, maybe it'll show up and Instagram but really, we still, you know, maintain and control that you know, from the like personal active, you know, we certainly use it as a gauge as to what, you know what people want to see, you know, what, you know, what times a week or times a day, you know, maybe that the times when more people are going to see those posts, you know, generally speaking, you know, number of likes, you know, you'll you'll gauge that it's kind of the, the, the, you know, that metric outside of kind of next next met metric, which is the interaction. So the number of comments on the post, which is, you know, some posts, we see a huge volume of comments and others, you know, not really much I think, sometimes when we direct people off to the site, we actually lose comments on the Instagram post itself, and people are getting pulled right off to the site to read the review. But that's the intent. You know, the idea is to kind of share that message, let people know there's something new up on this site. You know, what I think is interesting about this whole thing is it's being proposed as, and maybe there's some truth and validity to it, that, you know, it's to help with people's mental well being that kind of thing. But that being said, I think there's a part of That believes at some point, you know, these companies that want this data on, you know, unlikes are going to be able to buy it on the back end, they're going to be able to see that data, you know, through some kind of payment to Instagram, they're going to be able to figure out, you know, who the best engaging influencers are, if that's what you want to call them. And they're going to use that as a metric. Because right now, if you think of these, you know, these companies, if they're looking at, you know, number of followers, and they're looking at number of likes, those are really kind of just surface that just touches the surface of what's going on, you know, as far as the interaction goes, and they really want the interactions, they want people that are interacting with the community and in depth and really, you know, connected with the communities that they're talking to. And those couple of metrics, I'm not really sure, you know, fully, you know, fully show that so I think what we're going to see is I think we're going to see Instagram, really starting to take a bite out of this pie of, you know, these influencers who are making money on this journey, they want their piece and I think that's what's eventually going to come is you know, ways for those companies to kind of engage that data? 15:02 Nick, that's a fantastic answer, by the way. 15:04 next subject. Here we go. 15:07 Do you ever gauge your post between you and Jordan and just to see who has the most likes? 15:12 I think Jordan does that he's keeping track five state. Not really. We have I mean, we have fun with it. We're running scoreboard. 15:22 We do get excited. I will say when there's actually when there's comments is when we really get excited, I think I posted actually was the three of us together, we went to a local store, and he kind of let us in the back or he's got way too much. That's not like generally for sale. But he kind of said, you know, take what you want, you know, what do you want and, you know, we weren't we didn't go over Barba which got three bottles and stuff you just don't see. And you know, we kind of put them arrange them in group. So this is what each of us got, you know, my group, George's group, Eric's group when you just said which, which one would you pick? One, two or three. And we were amazed by how many comments we got. Matt, you know, because it's really interesting to see, you know, that dynamic of what people gravitated towards, you know, with the bundle or the one particular bottle they felt like was the strongest, you know, that kind of thing. So, we get more excited about I think interactions than just just plain old likes at this point. 16:16 Yeah, I kind of the question for you know, between you and Blake, you know, when you look at this, you know, the ultimate goal is that none of us are like making money off Instagram, right? None of us are. I guess the question is, is that what we want to do is want to figure out how do we convert these people that are looking at our stuff on Instagram to actually listening to a podcast or reading one of your articles, like, do you see Instagram as a medium to actually make that happen? Or just are people just excited to just be like, Oh, cool. Nick has a bottle of Pappy 20 all like that. For me. 16:45 I think it's just, you know, it's all part of the big big flywheel. So you know, there's, there's people who come to just see the Instagram and may see a blog post or something like that, and, you know, so it's kind of connecting it all. But I think Instagram is a good discovery tool. 17:02 So 17:04 somebody may not be you just Google searching and find you, but they may see you on Instagram. They're like, Oh, they have a blog they posted a review now I'll look at that. So I think it's it's really good for that just for discovering new new blogs, new new websites, all that kind of stuff. So it's not as big of on the likes, like I didn't think that was that big of a deal, at least in the whiskey industry. You know, I think Mikey putting the comments about, you can still see the inside. So companies want to see your analytics of how many likes and comments you get per post, they could still see all that it's more of like that forward facing just that vanity number of Oh, this post got 1000 likes it is crazy. I think they just took took away that and I mean, that's fine to me. I don't think it really affects anything that us do. Because, you know, like Kenny said, No, no one's really making money off of Instagram. At least I haven't figured out a way yet. So, you know, it kind of removes that removes a little bit of the vanity. 18:09 And so I think it's pretty good thing overall, 18:11 I think this is very important for the consumer. What this does is it kind of, it kind of deflates a trend that we've seen in, in whiskey in that there's been a shit ton of people who bought a bottle of bourbon five weeks ago, and suddenly they're an expert. And so, you know, Instagram seem to be a breeding ground for people coming into the game. And I, as you all know, I will help anybody trying to get into this business at you know, to create interesting content or ideas or videos, whatever. I am all about furthering the education and the conversation. And even if you are a new bourbon consumer, and you're bringing people into that journey, And you're just posting a bottle. There's nothing wrong with that. The the problem that has surfaced from these, you know, some of the what we would call influencers is that they were like, overnight experts, and they would they would post themselves as that I mean, and someone like, you know, Brian and myself has been doing this for more than a decade. You know, he just kind of kind of look at that and scratch your head. But at the same time, I have seen the impact of what the influencer community can do for for events and getting people to show up or even watch something. And I think it's really powerful. There's a guy scotch and time I thought I that what he has done has been really remarkable in that he kind of vetted a lot of influencers that would touch scotch whether they were a cigars or They were car people. And like with it, you know, with a flick of a finger or a reach out through Instagram, he would have all those people talking about an event. And before you know it, you know he touches a million people. And those are real people. And so I think there's an incredible amount of value to it. But we just have to be careful that we don't get ourselves in a situation where we're not providing real information or a real story that matters to somebody 20:32 kind of just the back of what Fred says, I think I love Instagram and I waste countless hours of it. That's why I've mostly delete social media during the week not to waste time on it but with Instagram, it's like you have shallow short and like you know what contents going to grab you at that instant and it's like, everything has to be epic and it makes it like so like dramatic and it's sad that we have to like remove likes because people put So much self worth, like in those that we're trying to fix, you know, people's mental health because they don't realize this is a highlight reel of someone's life or their life like when Blake's, you know, dropping a brisket and it wobbles, and he has to put, you know, juvenile 400 degrees on it. It's not because he's living this epic life. It has kids screaming in the 21:22 room in the background, like everybody's going crazy. That's why I have to put music over every single. 21:32 Like, those celebrities are like, look at me, I'm so epic, because I'm with my boys and we got like 10 bottles and we put like 40 filters on it to make it look like the craziest photo ever. But, you know, that's just my thought on it. 21:45 I will say that when I got when Instagram verified my account, and I got that little blue checkmark. I mean, there's there are a few things that I have celebrated. More than that, that was like in a weird way, it was like, you know for 22:03 let me interrupt few things you've celebrated more than that. 22:07 Well, in terms of like social media, I was about to go down, go down that road, like, I hate social media. But when I first started, like trying to, you know, sell books to publishers, they were like, you need Instagram followers, you need Twitter followers, you need this and now it's fucking YouTube. So you know, you have to have all of these things to be encompassing and so that's why you know, I've worked on that is because it's what the people who you know, put on events and you know, buy books at the publishing level or films or whatever, that's what they want. And at bourbon and beyond, you know, we assess bands based on you know, like a new up and coming band, we can assess a band based on the metrics from YouTube or Instagram, that's real life data. So when I got that like blue checkmark because I know how important that is for like, event planners And that's basically how I make a good chunk of my living is doing events around the world. And when I got that blue checkmark, I was like, I've made it. 23:10 I had no idea I was That's crazy. I mean, I was late to the game didn't get on to my daughter got me on. And it's it's eye opening to 23:18 actually just put a green check after my name. I think it's something similar to that. Blue check. I think it 23:24 will. The green check emoji. Yeah. 23:28 Yeah, it's pretty close. I think it'll pass in some places. So yeah, I mean, like I said, I think that was a really good kind of way to touch on it a little bit. And I guess the last thing that will kind of look in here is, you know, as if you're a company and you're still looking for that engagement, that influencer following I mean, it is this can be a deterrent for you not being able to see that or is it going to be like okay, now we have to get more data out of this person, try to figure out if they're actually a true influencer or not. I think 23:53 it's going to cause the companies to dig deeper 23:56 sites that give you those analytics. I mean, there's sites like You know, don't on it down 24:02 follower by user. 24:03 Yeah, by account. And I think it's I think Instagrams going to use that data, you know, I think they're going to collect more data, I would think that they, at some point are going to try to be in between, because if you think right now, if there's transactions happening between companies in between influencers she got in, it's happening outside of Instagram, but then the post and the activity, the thing that they want is happening inside of Instagram, I gotta believe that, if I'm Instagram, why wouldn't I want a portion of that? Why would I want to be the one to connect those two entities? And if anything, we may see a lot more of that because right now, it's really pretty ad hoc, you know, especially if you're not somebody that's, you know, a huge Instagram personality that's got it figured out, you know, or a big company that's got it figured out you know, you've got smaller companies seeing it seeing like seeing followers thinking, Okay, there's a big audience here. Maybe they don't understand that but they might want to throw some money. They may not know how to connect with quality, the influencers I think we may see a lot more connectivity there, you know, between between these two parties with Instagram actually in the middle taking a portion of it, which to me that's even a little bit more scary you know, because as of right now you got to be cautious about what you're seeing and reading because what's really what's really behind it, you know, and there's certainly some markets out there where just about all the information that's out there is got somebody money behind it is very difficult to find real information, you know, that somebody has put together on their own without the influence from somebody money. 25:33 Okay, last question as we kind of tail off on this. Should Instagram also hide the amount of followers that you have, 25:40 I think that would start to deter even more from people reaching out to you know, influencers and all that kind of stuff. So I think that would hurt their, you know, they can kind of get away with hiding the likes and you know, gets a nice PR push, but if they started hiding followers and all of that. I mean, you know, the whole mental health thing I get, but it's like, if somebody is drawing value in their own life, because of how many Instagram followers, they have Instagrams not gonna be able to solve that problem in their life, you know, it's going to take something more. And, you know, it's a sad thing to say, but it is true. Like, if that's where you're deriving value from with your life, like, you need to take a step back in general. And that's just a small byproduct of I'm sure some deep seated issues. 26:34 So 26:35 kind of a, on a serious note to bring it back. 26:39 No, like, what's the point that I mean, you know, we're all on there to build a bigger following and reach bigger audience. So take it for what it is. It's a tool to talk to more people about whiskey. It's not something that you should be waking up in the middle of the night thinking why don't I have 100,000 26:56 followers every time my posts don't get as much likes his kidneys. I'm liking that. You're in a funk. You know, 27:07 I who cares what they do? I mean, I just all I mean every, every day, they're all changing their algorithms and you know, one day it's all going to go away or be changed and highly regulated. Just, it's not worth worrying about or even thinking about. It's all stupid. 27:24 Yeah, like speaking of stupid, let's go ahead and move on to another stupid topic. So some fun. 27:28 Yes. Alright. 27:30 Cool. So, last week, Blake broke a lot of hearts out there across the nation, as he got rid of you know, he always has to be tech map, but he said this year, and never again, will there ever be another Pappy release map. And so that kind of led into a good blog posts that kind of talked about really the problems that he sees with it. You know, even if you do find a bottle, Pappy. odds are you're not going to be paying retail because I think he said there's about it. Maybe a two to 5% chance that there's that's all the retailers that are left across the nation that are actually selling theirs at suggested retail price. And so this kind of leads into the sort of the next question and it also kind of tails off on a lot of things that we had discussed or kind of took the the brunt end of it. A few weeks ago when we had a counterfeiter on the podcast, and people were talking about, okay, well, you need to go talk to Sandra, you need to pull you need to put them online, they should be responsible for this. Like they need to answer the questions that people we reached out to saceur and PR, and we asked for somebody to come on the show to try it and provide some transparency. And we knew this was going to be a sensitive subject. And we're willing to give all the questions up front just in case they wanted to prepare their answers. However, resizer at the respectfully declined our offer, and they do not wish to answer any of our questions. So we're going to do what we do best and make all sorts of frivolous claims and conspiracy theories. 28:53 Thank you. lations. 28:54 Yes, so everything you hear from this point forward and me button right now. 29:00 Go ahead and throw that Brian's 29:02 way. 29:04 So anything that you hear from here on out is our own opinions. Nothing that is factual or true or anything. This is just something that we're all just kind of talking about as just kind of friends and kind of just putting our ideas out there. So, the first thing we kind of look at here is, of course, we all know that the van winkles were kind of the face of the secondary market take down we talked about it, you know, we recorded it bourbon and beyond. We put it out there the whole world got to hear. However, I kind of want to put it out there for you all. Do you believe that there, you know, there are bigger wheels in motion behind this. And it's actually Sazerac as a whole. And it's really the Van Winkle is just kind of had to be the puppet in this. 29:42 We're not going to fall on the sword with you, Kenny. Let's you're on your own. 29:47 When you look at it, it's kind of like the perfect storm. So the Van Winkle is have the face where everyone knows Pappy and everybody wants to get Pappy and that's you know, that's I'll step out and say that's the majority of what was being sold and traded and everything on the secondary market. It helps when you have a billion dollar company that also hates the secondary behind you and that's that's where azurite came in. So you know where I think Preston said where he fail which was you know, he hated the secondary market and all this stuff but more Julian and everyone else falls I don't know. But you know, to me and I just think it's really misguided Is this the best way I don't want to say it's dumb or stupid because I think they have their reasons but I think they missed out on they're actually targeting their their biggest you know, cheerleaders and their biggest promoters by going after the secondary market in you know, to go after the secondary market and not just put some, you know, anti counterfeiting measures on their bottle. I think that's the biggest thing. And I have a, you know, my prop is in the background of how much I feel like they actually do care about the consumer. And you know, you look at the 2017, Pappy 15 year, they put the wrong foil cap, they put the red cap on the bottle instead of the black cap and just let it go out to market. I mean, I can't think of any other product where they put the wrong cap on it just like who cares? Send it no big deal. And that's to me that was like a bigger slap in the face that actually going after the secondary the fact that you know, these things are how crazy people go. And it wasn't like there was a press announcement meant before it was just like they started popping up and for like, hey, the 15 years got a red cap on it this year. Like oh, bottling mistake, it's good. So, it took us 20,000 31:55 bottles before we realized screw let it go. 31:58 Like I just You know, we send one sticker out wrong and you're going to get a reply automatically you send it out, Hey, sorry, we sit around sticker, whatever. So that to me was just kind of like, what are we really going after here and ultimately, Cedric says or ex defense of the three tier system, which they are strongly embedded in, they believe in the three tier system, they think three tier system should be there no matter what. And they see the secondary market as, you know, a deterrent to the three tier system or you know, impeding the three tier system. And ultimately, it's not about taking down the secondary, it's about making sure that that three tier system is in place, and ongoing forever. 32:44 They were even against like the da Vinci spirits. 32:48 Lucky. So, you know, for me, like that's what the secondary market was was to go and enjoy looking at those beautiful old bottles. That would occasionally pop up from the 50s and 60s, I gave two shits about Pappy. And, you know, but that's what led the conversation in it really, it comes down to it comes down to every single year for that company. They have the hottest Bourbons that everybody wants in every major city in the country and the small ones in every country in the world. How do they get there? How do they get it there? And then in between those these things that happen, they're staffed within their own company. You know, there's small little counterfeiters here and there you got ridiculous hype, you know, driving around it, like from like the from the fortune story about billionaires can't even get a bottle to help us talking about it. I mean, for God's sake, I mean, I've my whole Pappy versus the field thing on YouTube. Was was an experiment for me just at halftime. I'm fine with it, but, but it was like, you know, I'm part of the problem. So I guess, you know, before we kind of jump into some other questions here, does anybody else kind of think that? You know, was it really like why make the van winkles the face of this? 34:18 With the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. 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Like, is anybody else have a kind of theory about behind that? 36:24 Well, I mean, do you think that says rack is making the Van Winkle face? Or do you think the van winkles are recognizing that of their own volition and in you know, driving and as well themselves? 36:36 This is all theory, man. So if you think that, you know, they had the wheels in motion behind this, and they're just like, hey, Preston, we're going to go ahead and let you be the punching bag. This today like what what do you really think that was it or you really think that maybe the vein winkles actually do legitimately care about the secondary market? 36:52 I think they were the face no matter what I mean, if four roses came out and tried to do the same thing, it's like well You know, you the small batch limited edition gets flipped a little bit but and nobody's going to step up from a bottle from 1950 you know, some old still Weller nobody's going to step up and like try to shut it down on their behalf so I think they were just kind of already the face. 37:19 But I don't think anyone else really, I guess could be the face in a sense of, you know, if you think about it is a very family business in a way you know, if you look at if you look at says rack and that company, you know, that that teaming up with the van winkles and partnership was a fantastic move, you know, for their product line. You know, that whatever caused Van Winkle and Pappy Van Winkle, you know, all the things that, you know, you look at the dominoes that fell years ago that just caused the popularity to skyrocket. You know, there's no question that that's overflowed into you know, a lot of says RX product And now we've got this, you know, we've got this this kind of like beast that's feeding itself in a way, because we've got us as, as bourbon enthusiasts, as drinkers who talk about this stuff all the time, who buy this stuff and want this stuff. I mean, I look in my, in my, in my collection here, and I've definitely got like a high percentage of Sazerac type products that I've kind of like stocked up on just based on that, geez, I don't think I'm going to see it again for a while. I better buy a few of them, as opposed to Yeah, I see it all the time. I'll just get one. What do I need three, four, you know, and so then we've got the distributors using it to hold over the retailers as a product to buy more products and is not just sanitary products, but it's stuff they want to move as well, because they're in it to make money. You know, you know, so you've and then you've got the retailers who don't put this stuff on the shelves. So no matter how much they're making, it appears to be a ghost, whatever it might be, even though there might be a lot of it because of a retailer's holding it back and taking you by You know, by the by the shoulder and saying by the arm and saying, Hey, I got something special, you're, you're a good guy like you, you want to, you're suddenly saying, I am special? I do want that. Absolutely. And then it's not even a question about it, you know, so get everybody really believing that all these products are insanely hard to get that's causing people to hoard them, stockpile them, and buy more of them, and then that's what's causing the price to go up. So the secondary in a way, has kind of helped their cause in a sense, you know, at the same time, you know, it's, they're, they're a company, you know, you got to look at say, what are you doing to stop, you know, counterfeit bottles to stop these things from going on to prevent illegal activity? You know, so how much of it is them really wanting to stop it versus just okay, I suppose we really should, you know, apply and make it look like we're doing something over here, 39:46 Nick, I think it's more than just that that helped them. I mean, it's the horse they wrote, it's the it's the reason that those brands are as popular as they are today. And now there's at least 15 turn their back on that secondary market but that's that's what made them and maybe once you make it that big you can turn your back on it and you can try to take this holier than thou attitude toward it, but it got them there and I mean maybe it'll push them back down if they if they push back against, you know Corky Taylor from peerless when I asked him about this you know at bourbon and beyond he he said that he's like this is like it's a mistake, that this whole thing was like punishing the the hardcore consumers that really has brought, you know, bourbon to where it's at right now. But I'm telling you all the van winkles in the 90s every single day they were near closure, you know that that's a company where 40:51 everybody wants to hate on them, but it was they had a long road. Long Road to get here and You know, and they, they get probably far more hate mail hate mail than all of us combined on on a yearly basis, because people can't get bottles and they get all these stories that are connected to them. And so I think a lot of what we caught on that stage in September was frustration, and I don't think saceur i don't think i don't think sads rag put then we close up to this, I think they wanted to do it. And I think Preston on that stage that day wanted to get it off his chest and you know, they, they're angry about it. They're angry about the fact that someone can sell a bottle that that's who's not a licensed retailer, they're also angry about the people who are jacking up prices and liquor stores. And here's the thing as they say they can't do anything about that, that that's true. So the liquor stores who are price gouging, you know, are protected by federal laws that prevent, prevent alcohol companies. From dictating pricing, so, like Mac and these like ambos, they they like fixed their prices and prices and retailers can't, can't do they can't jack the prices up alcohol cannot do that. And that all goes back to the 40s and 50s. And ironically, the Pappy Van Winkle testified in Congress talking about all the price fixing that was going on in the industry. So they are in a hard spot. And I, you know, it, it's, it's a know when to know when if they jack up their prices to kind of like, you know, meet the demand, they're in trouble. You know, they get yelled at, you know, and if they don't do anything, they get yelled at, but, but what it came down to is they made a business decision. And, and they, I think, I don't think they made the best business decision, but they made what they thought was best for their company. 42:53 Fred to piggyback on that, you know, I think that they do internalize what they went through and I think there's got to be a part of them that says, if we raise our prices today, this, you know, we've kind of gotten lucky in a way. I mean, if I were them, I would certainly feel like, man, we really got lucky over the years with how popular our product has become, what if we push it too hard, and we lose what we've gained. And we're back to where we were? Yeah, so I gotta believe it for them. That's got to be going on. I mean, that's a human thing to feel. I would think if any of us in that position would probably be, you know, thinking the same thing. 43:28 You know, and this is this is all kind of coming back around because, you know, Christopher Hart and a few other people with inside the chat, you know, they were saying like, Oh, it's all the vein, winkles. It's not SAS rack. And I'm kind of saying, I'm kind of the opposite. And I'll kind of give you my, my theory on this. Because, you know, when I look at this, I look at, you know, the vein winkles is the face of this and they come out saying that the main argument is behind counterfeiting, and that's a pretty weak excuse, like, actually, it's a shitty excuse my opinion, like because they're not doing anything to prevent it. They're not doing anything to invest in it to make anything happen me Blake made a pretty good example about that even quality control at Sazerac was poor enough to even see that happen. And what was the real point of just going after the secondary market? So if I think about this, and I think a few steps back, and I think a little bit higher up the ladder, I'm like, Okay, well, I want to put these people to faces because the most popular brand out there, and it's something that people are going to recognize. And if it's coming from them, all these bourbon nerds, you know, crazy, they're going to talk about it. And people are talking already on on here that saying, you know, we're doing it like we're giving them the more press that they're already going to get right. So we're giving free marketing. And this is another theory that I kind of heard from somebody else as well, is that sazzle is expanding. I mean, they've got more warehouses coming out, they've got more distilleries coming online. And the goal behind this is to not have so much focus, being on just a few select brands. Instead, what they want to be able to do is they want to be able to try to spread the pie even further. Get these hands and get these bottles in the hands of more people, not the allocated products, but the stuff that's coming online. And you got to be able to get it in such a way that people aren't just talking about the same five bottles all the time. Now, I also kind of look at this in another way is that this is a, this is a very bad thing for bourbon. Because we know Fred talked about a little bit earlier. And, and I think we've all had that same feeling that when we're able to sit there, and we're able to scroll, and we're able to see these cool bottles from the 50s and old Miller antiques from the 70s. And like all these like, you know, old Willett wax tops, and people are just going you know, they're going crazy for it. And they just want to rip it away for why for counterfeiting. Like, that's bullshit. Like it's bullshit, right? There's got to be something that's a little bit little bit higher here to make this a real a real claim and a real excuse and it can't be counterfeiting. So I'm just saying that there's there's some dots in my head that aren't connecting. To make it say that counterfeits are really the real angle 45:56 here when the Attorney General's 46:00 For the country all the states basically issued a joint letter saying that they're going to be cracking down on secondary market that's that the bad week goes guys 46:10 I'm sure Julian has 46:11 some connections but for to get 47 out of the 50 Attorney General's 46:17 and let me tell you, they're all playing on that date the Dominican Republic, minibar stuff and the whole seller world boy they seize that opportunity better than you know it. Yeah, anything since prohibition I mean, my 46:35 god, 46:36 they're like all see, look what happens here when we allow shipping. You can die. You know, you could die from alcohol poisoning and vultures will be eating your guts on the beach. It's just ridiculous. how far they took that? 46:52 I don't think says right really gives a shit as whiskey geeks we think would they care these whiskey brands care about what we think and like These really high end bottles matter that the reality is, those things are like 5% of their business. It's like low on the totem pole. It's more of a pain they asked for them. They're thinking more grander bigger. I just don't think that counterfeiting or the Van Winkle. I mean, yes, they wanted but I just don't think they would put all these resources in it into that when they're just there as on how much fireball how much Buffalo Trace, can we push out there and do it globally? Not that that's what they're focused on, I think. 47:31 Yeah, I think if anything, it's a reaction. I can agree with that to Ryan and the van winkles. It may be more internal, you know, they're invested in it. 47:39 But I think I think the van winkles it's like Fred said, they've got so much sweat equity and all this and, you know, it's their family history and they're just for lack of better term butthurt about it. You know, that people can flip it on the market for 10 x what they you know, because a $300 bottle, they're probably making you know, 9200 bucks on it you know and then and then it's selling for 1518 $2,000 i mean you know that's probably more of it for me but 48:07 but okay here's the thing like they can control that why don't they do it? 48:10 Well they could I guess but for they can just why don't they sell it for two grand but the same amount of hate from the other side saying well you sold out you 48:21 know what Booker's do when they raise the $20 they're like hell fuck the head 48:26 I kind of nonsense 48:28 yeah their perspective you know they I can't imagine the amount you know as Fred said they probably get the amount of hate mail all of us combined on a daily basis you know, it's probably pretty frustrating to get like they think they're doing the right thing by just keeping the prices lower and I'm sure every random you know guys email them saying oh, I used to buy your bottles for $50 a bottle and loved it now I can't get it. And you got a you know, I'm sure it's millennial thrown in there somewhere who's ruining it or like You know a guy in skinny jeans and a flannel shirts probably the reason why they can't live happy anymore. But you know they're probably frustrated with that like I would be too I don't you know i don't blame them but I just think they're taking the wrong approach 49:16 doesn't keeping that bottle at $90 encourage secondary flipping 49:22 you know, but indirectly if they crease it so so say they came out next year and happy 15 was just $500 I guarantee you they'd get even more hate because of that. I think but I could be wrong. I mean, ultimately I you know, I think it like Ryan said this is not a big I think all these limited releases is something they want to get behind them. You know that we Jordan an eye toward heaven Hill, and it was crazy the amount of spirits that were flowing through there and bourbon was, I mean, we saw way more watermelon vodka and flavored rums and all this stuff that we had never seen just, you know, hundreds of thousands of cases moving through their Eliza correct 23rd year was not even on the radar of what was what was important and what was, you know, kind of moving the profit loss statement. So I think it is kind of that necessary evil they want, they want to have it they want that, you know, the history and the heritage and everything else. But at the end of the day, that's not what makes these places profitable for raising prices really, 50:35 I mean, well, it isn't, it's still, you know, flips for double for you know, instantly it 50:40 will, it will it has a little bit because will it that that affects the bottom line and a little bit more, you know, if you double the price of something that is affecting your bottom line by like, point 05 percent, 50:52 you know, it's only one to 2% of their total business like that. They cut almost All their gift shop sales of it because it became such a pain in the ass. They were getting ABC letters from people saying like, or not from people that from the ABC, that people were turning them in, you know, saying like, well, they're just selling to certain people and you know, then they're like, well, the hell with it, we're not even gonna deal with anymore because it's just do this for the, you know, the whiskey and this is turned into a more headache than than it needs to be. 51:23 So I want to bring something up that Kenny said at the very top, and that's like, I want everyone to know, like how hard we work to get a representative from Sazerac to come on and talk about this. And we thought we had someone across the finish line, but we did not say Hey, come on this show. You know, we respected that person's position and his future with with that respective company. And I just want to tell you that anytime we have we've all given a lot we've sung a lot of things haven't hills way. Anytime I have ever written anything. Negative about heaven Hill, they reach out to me and they explain anytime I've ever written anything about Jim Beam, they reach out to me and explain and you know, sometimes they won't talk to me for six months, but they will they will still have a conversation with me. What we're looking at here we are looking at a very, a very closed in organization. Arguably it's the best whiskey that's out there and hungry consumers who want to know more. And if anyone from saceur acts listening, I'm just telling you that the playing it like playing the game of like not talking about this is only hurting you is only hurting you and and you got to come on you got to talk about this because people people are fascinated about it from a business perspective as well. I mean, in addition to Kenny's like, right vein popping up over here when he's got a blood draw tomorrow, you know, I'm getting concerned about him. People are absolutely fascinated with the business. A bourbon. So let's talk about one of the most key issues in our industry. And that is allocation. How do you decide to do allocation? I would love to have that conversation. 53:13 And so there's one other thing I kind of want to also bring up as we were talking about raising prices in this just kind of like just jogged my memory a little bit, you know, when Blake came out with his article, you know, saying that maybe there's like 5% of retailers nationwide that are actually still selling at us, Rp. And let's, let's be, let's be generous. We'll give it the 8020 rule say 20% of retailers nationwide are still selling it SRP 53:34 even if they generally are state run, you've got state run to start with, right. Okay. So then there's all them and then you've got the other ones with a lot of big retailers are doing lotteries 53:44 across the board. Even if they said rk Well, guess what the new SRP for Pappy 15 500 bucks. There's still 80% of the country that's still going to charge more than 500 bucks that's fine. Right in the 20%. That's there. Yeah, sure. little bitch, but whatever. Like, I think most people get over it. And, and not only that is most people, if they have the offer to buy a $500 bottle, most people are going to do it anyway, because that's the only time they're ever gonna get their hands on it. So I don't really see a whole lot of blowback, even if they were to raise the price in the back end. However, I've always been one to always say, you know, kudos to Sazerac and the entire portfolio of actually kind of sticking to their guns and really not raising prices across the board on any any allocated bourbon, you know, so it's, it's one thing that is cool to be the bourbon consumer and just say, like, hey, it's always a good deal. If you can find it a retailer, right? If I could find the owner to leave for $45. Cool, great deal. If it's 150. Maybe it's a pass. So that's just one of the things that, you know, over the over the years, I'm just really surprised that we stuck with him. And kind of like the last question I want to throw as regards to this. You all think other distilleries are happy with sizer x actions here or Van Winkle, his actions whoever it is to actually take down This, this singular, or should I say the big secondary market groups? 55:04 I think that's an even more interesting question, because so far nobody has jumped on board to publicly say, yeah, we're with them. We should, you know, be doing something to combat that. And maybe it is because, you know, if we look at it says rack are the leading products in the majority of that, you know, it's it's dusty bottles, and it's 55:26 sad, it says right products. 55:29 But I do think it's interesting that nobody has really kind of jump in to fight the battle with them. And you know, whether that's because they disagree or whether that's because they want to see how it you know, the consumer is going to react, I don't know, but 55:46 the longer other distilleries stay out of that fight, I think it's better for the consumer. 55:53 Well, I think here in the United States, you know, I think the market is just very, very small, relatively speaking. You know, maybe there's counterfeiting going on and other countries where it's more of a massive problem that we're just not in tune with that we don't know, you know, you see videos pop up on YouTube have these like mass production type situations where people are bottling, you know, something in in a counterfeit nature that it definitely appears to be in a different country, you know, where it's going to be, you know, sold in some black market. But here in the United States, you know, I think it's really resolved mostly to the enthusiast crowd, you know, to the crowd is trying to be istock bars and restaurants and high end places like that, you know, as a percentage of sales. I it's got to be really small. What I would really like to see and I know, you know, I know producers distilleries Listen to this. I would like to see a movement from producers and distilleries, you know, from somewhere to kind of create this market. How do we, you know, people are going to buy and sell, they're going to if this stuff is going to change hands, it's going to happen. You know, the market is going to find a way because somebody has it, somebody else will it plain and simple, that's just how it's going to work. Right? So if it's not this thing, it's going to be the next thing. So I would like to see a movement to get behind that, you know, in a way that doesn't encroach on the new production, the new businesses, stuff that does go through the three tier system, the normal way, there's plenty that doesn't, you know, there's plenty of stuff like Fred mentioned, you know, the older stuff, the stuff people find in their grandparents basements, that somebody else wants, that is of no value to the person who found it, but have tremendous value to maybe somebody else. And in some cases, maybe a lot of other people. You know, as we've seen with these charity auctions, and things of that nature, where these bottles can raise a tremendous amount of money, there's certainly a market for it. And I really believe, you know, the producers, especially the big producers should get behind that kind of, you know, they're behind the culture, if they're, you know, touting the history and those kinds of things. put your money where your mouth is, and make it so that we can have them market that everybody wants and is going to have anyway. 57:56 You know, what's funny is there was a secondary market called classified ads forever. Like, in through my research, I found so many bottles for sale and like small newspapers and people would just, you know, go and buy him but I'll say this like, Christopher Hart brought this up, Ryan and I were on his show. It'll be I think it airs this week as well. But I brought up the fact that I do think that second you know, he brought up two factors like the secondary market is will always survive in these forums in some way, shape or form. And not I do not believe that I am seeing an uptake of federal authorities getting involved with this. I mean, this is a very serious issue. The same people who were involved and taking down Big Tobacco in the 1990s you're starting to see them focus on alcohol while at the same time you have a incredible large movement within the health community try and ban advertising. So the second the all this alcohol stuff falls under kind of like two battles one you have one trying, you know, one side trying to block the lead Sales and you have another side, you know, for whatever reason they're trying to block illegal sales on the other side, you have people who are trying to ban alcohol and social media. So you've got, I mean, right now it's coming at to France. And in some ways, that's why it's kind of mark Browns head has always been a very he's always been very conservative about this. And so if like if you were to put yourself in his shoes of like you're trying to protect what you do protect your company in the best way you think is possible. You know, you may pursue something like this to prevent it. But the fact is, is what no one ever seems to grasp. Is that us, the bourbon fan, the consumer, you know, I just feel like all of these, if anything is, is going to change. It has to come from us. You know, there was a few years ago, New York tried to ban fantasy, fantasy gaming, you know, within five hours every Saturday In New York, I had heard from people in their area that never even considered politics, and they changed it just like that. Now we can all play fantasy football and make money off of it. So if if we are going to save any, you know, semblance of what the secondary market is or what a meant to us, it's got to come from us. And we have to start like, pushing it. We have to, like, you know, write our congressmen and our state senators and say, like, you know, this is an issue that's important to us. And, believe it or not, you know, if Wade Woodard and people like that multiply, I mean, who can handle 20 letters from Wade water today? 1:00:43 And Fred, I go bigger than that. I mean, the three tier system is antiquated. It's rooted in Prohibition era, sentiments and law. I mean, that whole the whole system's got to go and if part of that is a more even more robust vintage Law then we already have that really resembles what the secondary market looks like. So be it, it'll be a safer market. If folks like Sazerac and the other producers, take anti counterfeiting measures, it'll be a safer market. We've got to go to more. I mean, I'm always an open market guy. But here I really am for partly out of self interest, but that's where we've got to go. We've got to go to less regulation and more openness on it. 1:01:26 Yeah. Let's say let's stage a DC protest. Hey, hey, three teams gotta go. I don't know how 1:01:34 to go to DC and drink bourbon. 1:01:37 Next to the 30 other picketers 1:01:40 actually, what would happen is everybody would just end up with jack rose, and no one would go do anything. We pretty much 1:01:47 like that idea. 1:01:48 We need some members of Congress while we're there, though. 1:01:51 Yeah. 1:01:52 What guy with a retail license in DC so we can maybe set something up, I think, Oh, yeah. Let's do it. 1:02:00 Trying to get the RV let's go 1:02:01 gas it up 1:02:02 alright so let's go ahead we'll kind of wrap this up on a little bit higher now because this is this is the Thanksgiving episode so happy Thanksgiving everybody Hope you're if you're driving you're maybe you're just starting to try to fall asleep to some trip the fan little slip or something like that but let's go ahead and kind of go around a little bit and kind of talk about you know what we're thankful for and bourbon in 2019 if there's something that was awesome that happened to you whether it was growing or do anything like that or just laying a cool bottle 1:02:32 we're like in height 1:02:36 Sure, why not in with 1:02:39 I'll jump in. 1:02:41 So, 1:02:42 first I'm going to plug an article that's coming this week. And some bourbon are always do an article about, you

Intalksicated Reviews is back with its yearly Spooktacular Halloween episode which this year is actually a movie from the Halloween franchise being Resurrection. Corey and Bryant dive into the world of Michael Myers and answer questions like Did both Bryant and Corey watch this movie? (spoilers: NO) Did one of them watch Halloween H2O twice by accident? (spoilers: Yep) And do you Rats taste better with fresh Fennel?

The boys are back, and back home, here to give you the news. Starting with TwitchCon, they'll be there. Check out the Warp World booth, and Poo's meet and greet on Friday morning. The Link's Awakening remake is out. It's fantastic, and there's a bunch of other great games out, and coming soon on the switch, including Untitled Goose Game. Sega dropped the Genesis Mini this week. It didn't seem to make much of a splash. This isn't the first time they've released a collection of games like this before though. Are people just over Sega? France's courts ruled that Steam must allow for digital game resale on their platform. They are appealing, but what happens if they lose? This could have a rippling effect on video games as we know it. We have a Hot Take about DJNintendo. He claims to have "unofficially" gotten multiple world records in four different Mario games, but has no proof. Why say it if it's not true? More importantly, why say it even if it is true? Anyone can say they've done anything, but on the internet you must subscribe to the old adage, "No Vid, No Did" WE NOW HAVE A PATREON! Check it out at https://www.patreon.com/WarpWorld Check out https://coins.warp.world for a salty treat! You can submit any questions you have to podcast@warp.world for the Ask the Broadcasters segment!

Mini-sode 04.1 Sacral Sounds. In this episode I take on the task of making a bunch of silly noises. Sacral sounds! I talk about how many of us naturally make these sounds every day and probably don’t even notice them! Sounds I cover: · Aah!- “Help” · Aha- “I understand” · Ahem- “Attention please” · Ahh- “Okay I see” · Ahh- “So relaxing” · Argh- “Damn” · Aww- “How sweet” · Aww- “Too bad” · Aw- “Come on!” · Bah- “Whatever” · Boo- “That’s bad” · Boo!- “Scared you!” · Boo-hoo- “I’m Crying” · Brr- “It’s cold” · D’oh- “That was stupid” · Duh- “That’s dumb” · Eek!- “Help” · Eep- “Oh no!” · Eh?- “What?” “Is that right?” · Eww- “Disgusting” · Gah- “This is hopeless” · Gee- “Really?” · Grr- “I’m angry” · Hmm- “I wonder” · Humph- “I don’t like this” · Ha / Haha- “Funny” · Huh?- “Really?” · Hurrah- “Let’s celebrate!” · Ick- “Disgusting” · Meh- “I don’t know” · Mhm- “Yes” · Mm- “Lovely” · Muahaha- “I’m so evil” · Muah- “Kiss” · Nah- “No” · Nuh-uh- “No / Did not!” · Oh- “I see” · Ooh-la-la- “Fancy” · Ooh- “Wonderful” · Oomph- “I’m exerting myself” · Oops- “I didn’t mean to do that” · Ouch /Oww- “That hurts!” · Oy- “Hey you” / “Oh no” · Pew- “It stinks” · Pff- “That’s nothing” · Phew- “That was close” · Psst- “Hey you” · Sheesh- “I can’t believe this” · Shh- “Be quiet” · Shoo- “Go away” · Tsk-tsk- “Disappointing” · Uh-huh- “Yes” · Uh-oh- “Oh no!” · “Uh-uh- “No” · Uhh- “Wait I’m thinking” · Waah- “I’m crying” · Wee- “This is fun” · Woah- “Hold on” · Wow- “Amazing” · Yahoo- “Let’s celebrate” · Yeah- “Yes” · Yee-haw- “I’m excited” · Yikes!- “That’s a bad surprise” · Yoo-hoo- “Hey you” · Yuh-uh- “Yes it is!” · Yuck!- “Disgusting” · Zing- “Well said” Source: www.vidarholen.net/contents/interjections/ If you liked this episode please leave a comment, like, subscribe, and share it with a friend who would be interested in human design! Website: www.intuitionxdesign.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/intuitionxdesign Instagram: www.instagram.com/intuitionxdesign Email: intuitionxdesign@gmail.com MUSIC: Lights by Sappheiros https://soundcloud.com/sappheirosmusic Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/b... Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/-lbbHQbZNKg

Did you know that bats have weak and puny legs but exceptionally strong punching arms? No? Did you know that bats could probably out-dunk you in ANY game of ball according to two separate legends? Of course you dont--because you haven't checked out this brand new podcast where we tell you all the important things you need to know about animals! Dummy!