Podcast appearances and mentions of kenneth folk

In “AI Psychosis vs. AI Awakening,” Vince Fakhoury Horn argues that the same biological machinery enabling AI-induced delusion also enables AI-assisted awakening, and introduces his Interspective.ai approach — a Middle Way practice of engaging with AI as a potential partner in wisdom, thus avoiding the extremes of both Materialism (matter is fundamental) and Idealism (consciousness is fundamental).

Vince Fakhoury Horn: The Flavors of Jhāna—I can't remember where I first heard this term. I think it was from you or from Kenneth [Folk].Brian Newman: Maybe we should start there. You came to me and said, “What should we call the retreat?” And I said, “Hey, you're the one who wanted to do it in Portugal—what should we call it?” You threw it back at me, and I said, “Can we call it the name of my half-written book?”So folks, this all comes from a story that's part of a lineage. This is a Kenneth Folk story, and it's his way of demonstrating Jhāna on the spectrum.Kenneth says: imagine you've got a bunch of strawberries. You crush them into a strawberry smoothie, and you drink it. What does it taste like? A hundred percent strawberries.Now imagine a glass of clear water. You take a strong strawberry extract in concentrated form, drop in a single drop. What does it taste like? Strawberry—but just one tiny drop.And Kenneth's punchline is, “It all tastes like strawberry, motherfucker.” His point is that it doesn't matter where you are on the spectrum of Jhāna. On one end, you've got the Pa'auk tradition—completely absorbed, so much so that a gun could go off next to your head and you wouldn't notice. On the lighter end, you've got Leigh Brasington, teaching Jhānic factors in a very Sutta-based way, or even lighter approaches. But Kenneth's point is: it all tastes like Jhāna. Different flavor, same essence.Even the tiniest drop in the ocean still tastes like strawberry. That's how I understood the story when Kenneth told it.Much of this dialogue centers around an upcoming 10-day meditation retreat on the same topic, The Flavors of Jhāna, that will be co-taught by Brian Newman & Vince Horn.Vince: The Flavors of Jhāna—I can't remember where I first heard this term. I think it was from you, or from Kenneth [Folk].Brian: Maybe we should start with that, yeah. So, Vince, you came to me and you said—no, I said to you, “What should we call the retreat?” And you were like, “Hey man, you're the one that wanted to do it in Portugal, what should we call it?” And you put it back to me. And I said, “Can we call it the name of the book—my half-written book?”And so this is, folks, this is all coming from a story that's part of a lineage. And I promised we'd tell some of those today. So this is a Kenneth Folk story, and it's his way of demonstrating Jhāna on the spectrum.So Kenneth says this: imagine that you had—glass—imagine a few different scenarios. You've got a bunch of strawberries, and you crush 'em into a strawberry smoothie. And you just have a pure strawberry smoothie, and you drink that smoothie. What would that taste like? And the answer is, that would a hundred percent taste like strawberries, because that's all that's gone into the making of the strawberry.Now, what if you just had a glass of clear water and a pretty strong strawberry extract in a really concentrated form, and you dropped one drop of that into a glass of water? What would that taste like? And then the answer is, that would taste like strawberry—with just one tiny concentrated drop.And Kenneth's punchline on this is: “It all tastes like strawberry, motherfucker.” I believe that's the punchline. And his point is, it doesn't really matter where you are on the spectrum of Jhāna. And we could say, when we say the Jhānic spectrum, we're talking about on one end we have the Pa'auk tradition, which would have you completely absorbed, so much so that a gun could go off by your head.On the lighter end, we would have Leigh Brasington, who teaches Jhānic factors, a very Sutta-based approach—or maybe some even less rigorous, less absorbed type of Jhāna. And Kenneth's point is: it all tastes like Jhāna. What are you talking about? It's just a different flavor. And how much of that actual flavor do you need to be able to recognize it?His point is, the tiniest little millionth part in a glass in the ocean would still taste like strawberries, so to speak. Let me know if you have a different interpretation of that story. That's how I interacted with it when Kenneth told me.Vince: Yeah, no, I have a similar interpretation of what he was teaching there. He was kind of pointing to this depth dimension of Jhāna, and using the strawberry analogy to point out that, yeah, these states are patterns of mind. And even if you experience them at a great depth of absorption or focus, it's still the same pattern. You can still recognize that pattern. And that's what we're calling Jhāna, essentially.Brian: Yeah. So that's the “flavors” part. And then maybe we could ask—let me raise a question to you then, Vince. So, what is Jhāna? We've got this interesting word with this weird hyphen over the A, and even how I think about it over the years has changed. How do you view what Jhāna is these days, Vince?Vince: Yeah, for me too, it's changed. And I guess maybe that change is interesting. 'Cause I imagine this is the case for you as well, Brian. Maybe for everyone who takes up a Jhāna practice. At first you experience Jhāna in the very specific way that you're practicing with it—so you've got whatever tradition you're working in, you've got the meditation object that you've been working with, you've got the instructions, and you've got a bunch of ideas about what is supposed to be happening, and what constitutes Jhāna. And you're using all of that to try to get into the states that are being described in that practice system.So for me, like when I first started doing Jhāna practice, it was with Leigh Brasington. He was the first Jhāna teacher I worked with 20 years ago. I went on retreat. Sadly, I left my sick wife at home in the apartment—because I didn't want to. This is how self-absorbed I was at the time—I didn't want to get sick, at the beginning of a Jhāna retreat. So I just left her there suffering by herself, to go off and get—Brian: So you could go get concentrated.Vince: Yeah. So that should explain the emphasis on wishing all beings to be concentrated. That's what I needed a little more of. But yeah, for me it was working within Leigh's system. And like you said, the emphasis there is on—well, it's on the breath, but also on the Jhānic factors. And I started to notice when they get strong enough, you can turn toward those factors and just get absorbed in them, which is like getting absorbed in the strawberry.So, long story short though, as I expanded to other practices, and I was doing more vipassanā noting style—which I now call Vipassanā Jhāna—and I was doing other techniques in more depth, I started to notice there's a deep pattern or structure, which is the same regardless of the practice I'm doing, which object I'm working with, or even what definitions about the states that should be arising.There's still something that's the same that happens. And for me now, I consider Jhāna to be just meditation—the most—which is the literal translation of the term Jhāna. It comes from dhyāna in Sanskrit, which is also translated as Zen.Brian: So it goes dhyāna to Chan to Zen in China, then over to Chan. Yeah. Jhāna, Chan, Zen. And the Zen guys diss Jhāna all day long—but the name of Zen actually means Jhāna, which is hilarious.Vince: They just don't talk about it because they're being it, I think. So yeah, that's how I understand Jhāna now. It's just—yeah, this is what we're doing. It's meditation. And whatever you meditate on does change the contours of the state and the experience. And whatever ideals you have certainly change your relationship to what's arising.Sometimes a state could seem totally inadequate, or like a warmup to something deeper. Whereas for other people, that could be the thing that you're aiming for. Just, “Oh, I'm in it now, I'm just going to rest or abide.” So I think for me, the world of Jhāna has opened up and expanded a lot over time.Brian: You said there's some similar quality. Could you say anything more about what that similar quality is?Vince: Yeah. Okay, so, let's explore that together. Seems it consistent? It gets a little tricky. Yeah, it gets a little tricky because I learned it first through the noting maps, and so I'll tend to notice—I'll go there to describe things, even though that doesn't describe the universal quality. But the stuff you did with the eye posture, like pointing to that, there's something there where it seems like regardless of which state I'm in, the eyes are moving through this sort of progression.Brian: Yeah.Vince: That seems to be universal.Brian: Yeah. Yeah.Vince: The aperture of attention and how broad or open attention is, and how much it includes the field of experience—that also seems to be a chief characteristic, regardless of the state, or the object I'm working with. What else?Brian: Totally concur with you. Yeah. The aperture. I often call it maybe the—Ingram also says the width of the Jhāna, which is a really weird thing, like what width, how am I going to measure the width? But it's the width of the visual field essentially, is what's being pointed to—what's happening in that space when the eyes are closed. Yeah.Vince: Yeah.Brian: What else is similar there?Vince: I was going to say something about the body, but the body's something that seems like it changes. Like, the experience of the body changes a lot depending on where one is and the depth dimension. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that, having experienced those sort of really deep exclusive states, where the body is described as having dropped off or dissolved.Brian: Yeah, so similar to—so, let's say I've been doing Jhāna for 15 years, probably Vince a little bit less than you, and we've come to a similar conclusion, I think. Which is: I think we're just talking about meditation here, and Jhāna's maybe a placeholder for what sounds like a certain technique, but really it's more than that.And like you, Vince, I've come to really feel that Jhāna just means meditation. And from that perspective, when we call a retreat The Flavors of Jhāna, it's The Flavors of Meditation. And our meditation community is called The Meditation Community. It's not—Jhāna just meaning meditation. I think that's totally appropriate.And so the more that I teach, the more what I come to see is we have eight discrete Jhānic states that are sort of pitched in an order of progression. It's linear. So you start with one and you go to eighth. It makes sense.The practitioner might find something really different though, which is on any given day, in any given emotional state, a different state might be more accessible to me. For those of us that wake up in the middle of a lot of suffering and dukkha ñāṇa, we might find that a blissful third Jhāna is really accessible—maybe for some reasons we can talk about later. So as we start to explore that, then it's like, you don't actually have to start at the first to get to the third, do you? You can drop in there some days.There's many practitioners that will tell you how they can just do a cold start right into the fifth Jhāna. And so if you start following that to its logical conclusion, I think what we start to say is: is it possible that whole meditation traditions have been built out around a single Jhānic state? And my answer to that is absolutely yes.So, Vince, and I think you and I were speaking the other day about what would happen if we said that the best Jhānic state was the sixth Jhāna, and that if we reified that to be the maximum, only, best thing. Many meditation teachers are only teaching the best thing, so let's be one of those teachers who's only teaching the best thing. What would that look like? And I think you and I agreed—that would look a lot like Ramana Maharshi, wouldn't it? That would look a lot like Advaita.“I am the world creator. I'm the world destroyer. I am just pure, infinite, boundless consciousness.”And so my current thinking around this is: Jhānic states could all be reified, so much so that an entire tradition could be built around the fifth Jhāna, or the seventh, or the eighth. And in fact, I think they have been built around that. And if you really love the sixth Jhāna—yeah, go do Advaita. It's probably your perfect cup of tea. I think we'd say a very similar thing around the fifth or the seventh or the eighth as well.Vince: Yeah. That's really interesting. So you're describing how perhaps entire practice traditions might be centered around specific states as the starting point, and then exploring those states or the domain around those states.Brian: Yeah.Brian: And then, so we're going to—we'll teach eye postures, folks. And I think some of—but to talk about that real briefly, it's about the aperture. So, a really tight aperture is a first Jhānic eye posture. Then it gets a little bit bigger with second, a little bit bigger with third, and then real big with this more expansive fourth Jhānic eye posture.So the really interesting question for the formless realm practitioner—ooh, in general I think this makes you become interested in eyes. And then you start to look at other practice. Maybe some of you have a Six Yogas practice, or Dzogchen, you've done Mahāmudrā. And if you start to think about that a little bit: where do my eyes go? Or where do one's eyes go when they do Dzogchen? You start to play with that a little bit and you realize there's a very distinct eye posture for Dzogchen.If you look at monks, they'll often practice Dzogchen with their eyes open. Their eyes are flittering all around. They're doing the eye thing. What would that correlate to, a state in our Jhānic arc? Maybe there's not really a Dzogchen-like Jhānic arc, I'm not quite sure around that. But each practice seems to have a discrete eye posture—most of which, I think, can be correlated to one of the Jhānic states.That's a lot of how I think about non-Jhānic practice these days: what is the closest thing that makes me feel like this in the Jhānic practice, and I'm using the eye postures to triangulate around that.As I said all that, it sounded esoteric. Did that sound really esoteric?Vince: Yeah, but for me I was thinking of something very practical—like in the Dzogchen tradition, when I worked with Lama Lena. Her basic instructions are to take a, like, a pebble or rock first.Brian: Yeah.Vince: Yeah. And as you practice what's called shiné, which is like calm abiding, you focus on the rock, or the pebble. And then there's another phase of practice in which you just remove the pebble, and then you continue to focus. And so that to me gets at the eye posture of Dzogchen, where previously you had something you were focused on, and then now you're asked to continue focus without that thing.So that's like a very practical instantiation of that, where the eye posture is clearly one that's meant to be open and spacious, but somehow stable and focused as well.Brian: And I love that. So what would that be called? That's samādhi without object.Vince: Yeah, shamatha without a sign.Brian: And we don't really talk about that in the Theravāda lineage—which you and I have done probably most of our practice in, Vince. There's no samādhi without a sign. It's always a sign. So that's just so fascinating. That's really deeply aligned with the yogic tradition, where they have objectless samādhi. And it's a totally different feeling to do that.And yes—look at something, then take the thing away, and keep looking at it. What is that, other than an eye posture?My story on eye posture is from a lineage—like a very deep practitioner. I'd love to share it with you. I've shared it before, but it's worthwhile to share again.So one of my main teachers, Sayalay Susīlā, who was the chief attendant for Pa Auk Sayadaw for a couple decades while he was traveling around Asia—she would spend time with him in Sri Lanka, several years there cooking his food and being his chief attendant. So very close to Pa Auk Sayadaw, really deeply absorbing his teachings.And one day—I learned eye postures from Kenneth Folk, and I didn't really need to talk about that with my Pa Auk teacher because she was very traditional. I didn't want to bring too much stuff in that might make her feel uncomfortable. But one day I accidentally said—I mentioned that I was using eye postures, and I said something about looking toward something.And she said to me in great shock, she goes, “You're looking with your eyes?” Eyes closed, but still looking. I said, “Yeah.” She goes, “You're looking with your eyes, like your actual eyes? Not some internal drifty—?” And I said, “Yeah, I'm looking with my actual eyes. I'm like taking a gaze.”And she goes, “If you're doing it already, just keep doing it.” I thought she was going to chastise me and say, “Never do that again.” But she essentially blessed the practice. So there was something there that was quite profound, I thought. Even from the Pa Auk tradition, they seemed to—I got a little wink, nod, nod on that one.Vince: Nice. I had a similar experience, although it turned out a little differently, with Daniel Ingram. I think I've shared this with you, Brian, where I was wanting to explore the kasina object, using the circular orb as a visual focus point. And Daniel Ingram had written the Fire Kasina book, and had been talking a lot about fire kasina in the years leading up to that.But I wasn't really that into the flame. I was wanting to do it, like, on my computer or whatever. And his instructions were very much to take the kasina object, close your eyes, and then see the afterimage, the eidetic image, and focus on that. And that by using that subtle— which I guess in your tradition would be like the nimitta—by focusing on that sort of internal nimitta, you eventually get absorbed. Well, you go through a process with that, but eventually it's a kind of a complete absorption in the nimitta.And I understood that, but for some reason I wanted to keep my eyes open doing the practice. It was just like a sort of intuition or an instinct. And maybe it was like a rebellious thing—“I'm going to rebel against what one of my teachers is telling me to do and see if he's right.”And I found, actually—this was so interesting—that moving through the third Jhāna, which he calls the murk, which for me I experienced as the kasina breaking apart and moving around and dissolving and being difficult to focus on—eventually my eyes actually settled so much that they were just barely open. It was almost like just a tiny slit of my eyes were open.And at some point it shifted into the fourth Jhāna, where all I saw was the color. It was like where I was looking and how my eyes were—and it wasn't like I was trying to engineer this, I was actually just moving through the state—and I found suddenly that my eyes were closed at just the right amount and looking at just the right place, that all I saw was the color from the kasina and I was completely absorbed.Brian: This is what was supposed to happen.Vince: Yeah, exactly.Brian: That's a full absorption. How beautiful. With eyes open. So amazing.Vince: And I was like, “Oh, my teacher's wrong. You can't just do this—or you don't only have to do this—with your eyes closed, taking the internal image. You can work with the external image the entire time, through the whole process.”Brian: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe that's a great transition.Vince: Sorry, Daniel.Brian: No, and we all love Daniel, and great respect for everything he's done. It's nice to have people trying different things out and telling us what actually works.Vince: Yeah.Brian: Maybe we could talk a little about the fact that there are a lot of concentration objects and what we will be offering in the retreat as far as what people might like to do around that.Vince: Yeah, that's cool.Brian: So folks, actually I don't have my list on me and I wouldn't be able to remember this because it's just too many, but there are traditionally 40 concentration objects. And the breath is one of those. The brahmavihāras, like loving-kindness, would be included. Things like contemplating the foulness of the body—contemplating pus, or contemplating urine or feces—would be considered part of that as well. And then you have all the kasinas, which are really traditional, and also contemplating the dharmas would be a concentration object as well.And so there's this premise that there are only 40, but every single sutta, or everything in Buddhism, there's always a sutta that says the opposite. And so what it turns out, there's a beautiful story where the Buddha meets a person, and the Buddha had the ability to see into people's past lives.And when he met this person, he could see this person had been a jeweler in a previous life. And so when the person came to him to request his object of concentration—which is how it was done in the old days, you go to your teacher and they give you the most suitable object, which is how it happened for me too in Malaysia, she will tell me what to do, I don't get to pick, she's going to pick based on her supreme knowledge, right?—and the Buddha to the jeweler, he says, “Clearly you were a jeweler in a previous life. I'm going to have you concentrate on this big, beautiful red ruby,” because he knew this guy was just going to be fully, really love the jewel, the ruby.So that—so apparently we could say the ruby is the 41st concentration object. But what I think we can actually take away from that story is: you can choose anything as a concentration object. Vince, maybe you want to talk later about your story—about Vince taking the number 1 as a concentration object on a full retreat, which is, whoa. How—where would that go? What's the sign of the number one, the nimitta? That's really fascinating.So there are all these different concentration objects. The breath is a wonderful object. I really promote the breath simply because I always have it with me. I don't need to take a bench with me. I don't have to have a cushion. I don't have to have a fancy colored thing. I don't have to have my computer. I can do it anywhere I am. It's always with me—the breath.And the breath produces this nimitta, this visual sign that allows us to get fully absorbed as well. Some of the other concentration objects wouldn't take one to that level of nimitta.And so for our retreat that's going to be happening on January 2nd, Vince and I's idea is we would like—we're very non-dogmatic teachers and we really like a spirit of openness and exploration—and we're going to invite all the participants to choose their object of concentration.I think probably, Vince, both of us will be teaching from one object. I'll be teaching from the breath for sure, because that's my preferred object. But you're welcome to choose a kasina. You could choose flame if you want. I think we could find a way to have you do a fire kasina somewhere if you wanted, et cetera, et cetera. Water, whatever you might like to work with. Vince, anything you want to add to that? Just how we're hoping to really keep it open for people on the retreat?Vince: Yeah, this is—it's an interesting experiment, because most concentration retreats, and I think in both of our experience, the whole group is being taught one object and is usually, though not always, doing one object focus together.And here, the idea is—what, yeah, we're all going to be focusing on one thing, but that one thing could be different depending on who you are and what you're resonating with, and where you want to go deep during that retreat. So it's a kind of interesting balance of the diversity of possible objects that one could be working with, and the universal experience of deepening with your meditation object.So we're going to be focusing on the universal patterns here, and the universal challenges that arise when trying to focus on anything—whether it be a jewel or a number, or the breath. And so yeah, I'm hopeful that we can weave those two worlds together. And my hope is that the deepening that happens often on retreat, that can be felt, that extra support—that we don't lose that just because there's a diversity of objects being worked with. But rather, that it creates something like a more complex field of concentration.Like the complexity of a wine when you drink—Brian: Yeah, complex harmonics.Vince: Yeah, exactly. There's a complexity there because of the way differences come together. And I guess I felt that in the Jhāna community, with your Śamatha Jhāna and the Vipassanā Jhāna and the Metta Jhāna. There's something I've seen with people that are going to multiple of these groups, where they're getting more of the flavor of the practice and what it could be like, by dipping into these different subjects.Brian: That's fascinating. And that metaphor of complex wine is really lovely. And complex harmonics tend to make interesting music. So that's great. Anything—should we talk about the breadth and the depth? So something that you and I often—so for those who are listening to this, Vince and I will often come across—so Vince and I are fairly non-dogmatic in the sense that we're really open to all doorways. And certain teachers that have been brought up in strong traditions, they have a really strong idea about what Jhāna is and what it isn't. Which I completely respect. And I really want to honor those classical traditions as well. I love that stuff and I'm completely drawn toward that as well. But Vince and I think we have a—we know we have a bit of a different approach. What should we say about the breadth and the depth that we're hoping to cover there?Vince: Yeah. Personally I can say I've struggled with this a lot over the years of practice.Brian: Totally.Vince: Having come up as a layperson, I decided not to go the monastic route because of my girlfriend—now wife. I didn't want to lose that relationship. It felt important. So I was always doing the thing—and I think you had the same experience for a while—going in and out of retreat.Brian: Totally.Vince: And going in and out of daily practice, doing an hour or two a day formal practice, going in and out of a month or so on retreat, coming back. And I experienced the oscillation between daily life and retreat life to be very fruitful on the one hand—where it felt like I kept plunging the depths and then coming back—but then also very challenging and confusing on the other end. Like, how do I bridge these two realities together? It almost could feel schizophrenic at times, coming in and out of that space.And part of what I learned really working with Kenneth—social noting exercises initially and teaching—was, oh, I need to be able to connect these states across my relationships now. That I need to be able to be present in relationship, not just by myself in silence on retreat. I need to find a way to bring this to bear on everything.And also be more okay not being in really concentrated states, since there are times where it's just going to be hard to do that. I know we've talked about your experience—I've laughed a number of times thinking about your experience going from super hardcore Pa Auk-style retreat practice to being in Tokyo with your wife, trying to maintain some of that depth while in an environment that just doesn't seem designed to do that.Maybe you could talk a little bit about your experience trying to maintain the depth.Brian: Just a general comment. This is less about Vince and I being meditation teachers and just trying to be skillful human beings in the world. If your partner's getting mad at you because of how you meditate, you're probably not doing it right. There's something going on that's probably out of sync.And so what that looked like for me was—I'm going to be the—clearly I needed to be the best Jhāna master ever to live who was a Westerner, I think. Second only or something like that. And what did that mean practically? Trying to live a life where I'm meditating four to five hours a day, while maintaining a full-time job and a marriage. And you know, that's sustainable for a certain amount of time.But what it actually means you need to do is you need to be dropping into the ānāpāna spot when your wife goes to the bathroom at dinner. And if you're thinking about that, you're probably actually thinking about it while you're eating dinner. And you might even take a moment to touch it while you're eating dinner. And then the wife will actually notice, and she'll say, “Stop meditating,” because she's sensitive to all your moods. Because she's been living with you. She knows when you're meditating, even if you think you're hiding it.And so this is actually failure mode. I don't think this is a good move. And so it's exactly what Vince is saying. There's something super beautiful about learning to get fully absorbed in a Jhānic experience, which tends to take some time for most people. There's a time-on-the-cushion element to that just because of the relative time it takes to build up the concentrated facility.But we also have lives to live. And there are certain things going on that make it impractical some of the time. So what's the happy medium? I think what's actually practical for us as laypeople.Now, one of my dear teachers is Tina Rasmussen. She's my first Jhāna teacher. And therefore I feel a really strong connection to Tina, who was one of my first Pa Auk teachers. But Tina won't think that what Vince and I are teaching is Jhāna. Because it—and some of the things that we're being taught in the Jhānic community—she wouldn't call Jhāna, because it's a little bit too far out of the rails of the Pa Auk tradition. And I totally understand that, and I respect that.And maybe Leigh would have his own opinions on that. And all these teachers have all these opinions. I think what Vince and I would like to offer you all is: we're going to hold all of that. We're big enough to hold all of that, accept all of that, agree with all of that, and be open to disagreeing with all of that. But we're going to say, that's all going to fit somewhere on the spectrum.We're happy. And in fact, I think within the community we hope we have teachers who could orient you to any part of the spectrum. Because at certain times of your life, some parts will be more interesting than others. If you're on a month-long at the Forest Refuge, go for full absorption with the nimitta. Why not? What a beautiful thing to have done in your life.If you're living a layperson's life and you meditate for about 20 minutes in the morning, maybe just get a little bit of nice pīti going, per Leigh Brasington's instructions. Because that's totally accessible in 15 minutes.What's going to make you feel good? Jhāna ultimately is really being offered as an episodic intervention to suffering. That's how the Buddha taught it. It's how he practiced it. And you can read that in the suttas. He entered Jhāna at the end of his life because he was sick. This is exactly how it was taught, and how he still can do it today.Vince: Brian, you mentioned the spectrum, and I know we've talked explicitly about the depth dimension as a spectrum. And here I'm like visually imagining this as like a vertical spectrum, where as you go down you get deeper. But I also have been thinking in the Jhāna community about another axis, which is the breadth axis.So if I were to map these together—like depth going vertically and breadth going horizontally—that would give like a bit more like a grid. And I think the breadth dimension—we were talking about this here, and it's good to make it explicit—which is, you can, and the way I understand the Pa Auk tradition really, is that it's focused on a very exclusive kind of breadth. Very hyper-focused on the object, and super deep. So it'd be like in the lower-left quadrant of this: super exclusive and super deep.Brian: Yeah.Vince: And what I've been realizing I've been trying to do in the last decade or so is live on the other side of the spectrum. Which is the more inclusive dimension of Jhāna, which I find you can actually take very deep. And maybe the Zen tradition is the best place where that's emphasized, where it's like your practice and your life are all integrated in one. And there's really an emphasis not on preferencing being in a particular posture or doing a particular thing—it's just like, your whole life is the meditation.And if that to me is—okay, that's a more inclusive kind of meditation experience, or Jhānic experience, where everything that arises is part of the practice. And like, thinking of The Karate Kid, it's like, at the beginning of The Karate Kid, what are they learning? Wax on, wax off. You're learning every basic movement can be kung fu. And so if you turn everything you do into the meditation, then you can have a kind of inclusive attention or awareness that doesn't get knocked off by the changingness of the content of experience.Brian: Say more about inclusive, exclusive. And I think you were doing one or the other when you did our guided sit today—you were talking a lot about “may concentration arise for all.” Were you even doing a little bit of a visualization? Visualization—what would the world look like, should we all be so concentrated? Can you point to what you were doing there—whether that was inclusive or exclusive, and how you see those two?Vince: Yeah, that's a good example, Brian. That was the move toward more inclusiveness. Including the imaginal capacity, which you'd already brought online really with the rails, feeling in the breath. So just working off of that. But also including in awareness more of a sense of others.And I think what I learned from Ken Wilber, of the Integral philosophers, is like we really can include these core perspectives. We can include our first-person experience—which to me, that's already included, even in the most exclusive, deep Jhāna states. You're including your own experience, you have to, because that's where it's happening.But then you can also include others' experience. You can open to and include in your awareness other people. And the early Buddhist tradition has good examples of that, like in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta. As they're describing the kind of mindfulness you want to establish, they said establish this mindfulness internally and externally.And so there's already there some clear instructions for how you can have a more inclusive kind of focus that includes not just your own experience, but also others. And then the third thing you could include, from an Integral perspective, is the third-person perspective, which is like the external world. Nature, the world of nature.And I—lately I've been sitting for 24 minutes a day outside on my back porch. That's been my practice—just sitting. And it's a very inclusive practice, because the eyes are open, ears are open, body open, and you're just sitting and being with whatever is. In my case, it's with Emily, and with the sounds of what's happening in the neighborhood.Brian: What a beautiful practice.Vince: That to me is like more inclusive. If you open from your first person to include others and then include the world—if you include all those things—you're sitting in a very inclusive way. Or walking, or standing, or whatever posture you might be in.Brian: And folks, you know that—what's the proximate cause for concentration? That's concentration. We've all heard that before. It's a kind of a funny joke. I think we talk about like Shakti and passing our concentration to others, which I hear a lot—people say when they're with me they feel more concentrated. I think that's because I'm including them. I'm trying to include them in that space. I want them to be part of that. And I'm inviting them into mine, and they're giving me some back, and we're all kind of building it together.The—a little bit more on the spectrum. So my natural resting place on the spectrum and Vince's natural resting place on the spectrum are actually at totally opposite ends of the spectrum. I want you guys to know that because I think that's really great—that you have a teacher who sits on each side, and therefore we can cover all the middle.So I'm a hundred percent exclusive. That's how I was taught to practice. And so one of the primary things I do when I'm correcting students who come to me to learn Pa Auk Jhāna is: people have been highly influenced by events, or they've been highly influenced by The Mind Illuminated—Culadasa. And they'll come in and then I'll learn, like on session four, like I hadn't realized it because they haven't told me yet, “Oh yeah, I'm always leaving 10% of my awareness in the room to note things before they arise.”And I'm like, “No. You don't leave any awareness in the room. You put a hundred percent here. We're never doing anything but that.” And that turns out to be revelatory. People are like, “Oh, I don't leave any in the room?” And I'm like, “No, this is an exclusive practice. A hundred percent.”And some of us will really be drawn to that. It's a very—you guys can feel the renunciate vibe of that Theravāda. It tends to be a renunciate practice. That churning is renunciate practice. And those of us who are incredibly drawn to absorption tend to have a little bit of that renunciate vibe. I absolutely have that in myself.Vince, on the other side, has taken—all great teachers will have students who will take something they've taught and run with it and reify and make it great. And Vince took social meditation from Kenneth. And I took eye postures. Kenneth talked about eye postures a little bit, but I went and made it the whole thing. Kenneth is even surprised by how big it's got at this point. And I think he'd say the same about Vince in social meditation.So just a little bit there about how we—our natural resting places I think make us really great teaching partners, in the sense that we love to cover the whole end of the spectrum, from our respective ends, which are the exact opposite ends. I think, Vince, that we sit at the opposite ends on that, naturally.Vince: Yeah. But we can meet in the middle, which I think is important. We both have that experience of being on the other side.So yeah—to your point, we'll do some social meditation on this retreat as well, regularly. And the intention there is to play with extending attention to include more.I was thinking about, what is the core difference between the sort of exclusive and inclusive ends of that spectrum? And it more or less reduces down to whether you're saying “no” to experience outside of the object you're working with, or whether you're saying “yes.” Or whether the object you're working with includes everything else.And in that sense, I would say all practice is working with that spectrum. Because there are times—even probably in the Pa Auk tradition, I imagine—where something could be arising that actually keeps you from being able to a hundred percent focus on here. And you actually at some point have to maybe turn toward it and deal with it, or address it, so that you can come back to a hundred percent focus here. Is that accurate?Brian: Yeah, so the most radical Pa Auk teacher will say you don't even do that. And they're not going to even acknowledge that there's a hindrance taking you away, because that would almost be like an admission of defeat.Vince: Like you're feeding it or something?Brian: Yeah, like feeding there something. So it's just: focus here. That being said, in the more modern Pa Auk teachers, they talk a lot about transformation versus transcendence. And the frame on this is—with Jhāna, we're aiming for transcendence. We are going to intensely ecstatic states that one would never experience without doing the practice. And these are supernormal human states, way beyond the pale of normal human experience.But sometimes that doesn't work, because we're super hungry or we hate our boss, and we're being pulled away by hindrances, we could say. And then when that happens, we simply can't concentrate. Focus here is not an option. And the more modern teachers are a little bit more flexible around that, and they say that's when we shift from transcendence into transformation. And what I mean by that is personality transformation.And they will propose that you do some work around working with the hindrances, so that you can free up that energy to go back to the ānāpāna spot. Any hindrance is just taking something away from energy that could be put always right here. Focus here always and forever, even when you don't feel like it, is the message of that tradition.Vince: So this is cool. I think that—I'm thinking the way this will probably play out on this retreat is we'll be offering different perspectives from either side of that. And the exploration is going to be around figuring out how to work with that more inclusive versus more exclusive focus, and finding the sweet spot for you in that spectrum.Brian: I think that's what we're offering. I've never, folks—I've never done a Jhāna retreat that wasn't full noble silence. So it's actually quite novel for me to go into a very strong concentration practice, but also have the space to be more inclusive. And that's what I want to do this time. I think that's a great approach. I think it'll bear great fruit for us.Join us in The Jhāna Community–an online community of practice focused on all the flavors of meditation. Get full access to Buddhist Geeks at www.buddhistgeeks.org/subscribe

Ethan welcomes Buddhist Geeks Co-Founder, teacher, and Palestinian-American Dharma teacher Vince Fakhoury Horn. They discuss the rise of "podcast dharma" in the early 21st century, Vince's path to teaching meditation, Vince's experience of his Palestinian heritage, why it's hard to get Dharma teachers to speak out about the genocide in Gaza, The Buddhist practice of Mohsen Mahdawi, and the complex legacy of Chogyam Trungpa and Tibetan refugees in relation to the Palestinian experience.  Vince Fakhoury Horn is part of a new generation bringing dharma, meditation, & mindfulness to life in the 21st century. A computer engineering dropout turned full-time meditator, Vince spent his 20s co-founding the ground-breaking project, Buddhist Geeks, while simultaneously doing a full year, in total, of silent retreat practice. Vince began teaching in 2010 and has since been authorized in both the Pragmatic Dharma lineage of Kenneth Folk, and by Trudy Goodman (InsightLA) & Jack Kornfield of (Spirit Rock Meditation Center) in the Insight Meditation tradition. Since then he has spent thousands of hours supporting individuals, groups, & organizations in incorporating meditation practice into their lives. Please support the podcast via Substack and subscribe for free or with small monthly contributions. Paid subscribers will receive occasional extras like guided meditations, extra podcast episodes and more! The Thursday Meditation Group starts up again on July 10th, and a special guided meditation on Open Awareness in Everyday Life was released this week. Another bonus podcast discussed a mindful take on the Revolutionary Astrology of Summer 2025 with Juliana McCarthy and Ethan Nichtern. You can also subscribe to The Road Home podcast wherever you get your pods (Apple, Spotify,Ethan's Website, etc). Ethan's most recent book, Confidence: Holding Your Seat Through Life's Eight Worldly Winds was just awarded a gold medal in the 2025 Nautilus Book Awards. You can visit Ethan's website to order a signed copy. Please allow two weeks from the time of your order for your copy to arrive. Don't forget to sign up for the August 23 “Windhorse Meditation” Online Retreat at this link and the upcoming 5 day retreat at the lovely Garrison Institute at this link ! Check out all the cool offerings at our podcast sponsor Dharma Moon, including theBody of Meditation Teacher Training program beginning July 10th, 2025. Free video courses co-taught by Ethan and others, such as The Three Marks of Existence, are also available for download.

In this episode I am joined by Alex W, long term practitioner of Zen, Pragmatic Dharma, and Western Occultism. Alex describes his journey from elite upbringing in Geneva; through NeoPlatonism, Zen practice, and magick; to advanced states of spiritual attainment and insight. Alex tells stories of his discipleships under pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and renowned occultist Alan Chapman and details the lead up to, and attainment and after effects of his own experience of enlightenment. Alex recounts his successful operation of the Abramelin Ritual, a powerful kundalini awakening, and his ongoing encounters with spiritual beings such as Kālī Mā and Hecate. … https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep316-dharma-the-goddess-alex-w Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast'. … Topics include: 00:00 - Intro 00:55 - Elite upbringing in Geneva 03:50 - Religious experiences in America 05:39 - Major surgery and turn towards spirituality 08:05 - Immersion in a Hindu religious group 10:25 - First spiritual experiences and power places 12:07 - Interest in philosophy and the Kyoto School 13:05 - Law school and studying mediaeval philosophy 15:52 - Entering Zen Buddhist practice with Deshimaru Taisen 18:14 - Finding a real Zen master & understanding Zen in Japan 21:55 - Observations about Japanese religiosity 24:09 - 1996 financial crisis and internship in law firm 24:58 - Connecting with advanced practitioners online 26:53 - Interest in Chan Buddhism 30:08 - Japan vs Chinese and Korean monasticism 32:15 - Plateau after 15 years of Zen 33:01 - Daniel Ingram & Kenneth Folk 39:09 - No-self experience 39:54 - Become a student of occultist Alan Chapman 45:25 - Scrying the Enochian Æthyrs 48:02 - Visions and esoteric Christianity 50:09 - Abramelin Ritual w/ Alan Chapman 53:50 - Meeting the Holy Guardian Angel 56:32 - Approaching enlightenment 01:02:38 - Achieving enlightenment 01:10:59 - Consequences of enlightenment 01:14:45 - Confirmation by Stuart Lachs 01:18:54 - Massive kundalini experience 01:22:21 - Loss of interest in spirituality 01:23:21 - Spirit encounters in Santeria 01:27:23 - Strategic presentations of Tibetan Buddhism 01:28:13 - Difficulties after awakening 01:29:52 - Post kundalini energetic development 01:31:56 - Loss of fear of death 01:33:15 - Breathwork 01:34:54 - Opening of psychic senses 01:37:40 - Powerful encounters with Kālī Mā 01:45:03 - Meeting other Dark Goddesses 01:48:27 - Synchronicities and initiations 01:49:20 - Alan Chapman's Magia 01:53:26 - Adventures in Bali 02:03:14 - Chinese Internal Alchemy & Mattias Daly 02:05:25 - Nan Huai-Chin 02:07:31 - Energy rewires for 12 years after awakening 02:09:11 - Neoplatonist theurgy 02:12:31 - Reviving the Western spiritual tradition 02:12:53 - Instructed by Hecate to be interviewed 02:14:31 - Specialties of the Western tradition 02:17:00 - Sacred geography and local deities 02:20:27 - #1 problem in the West 02:23:11 - Karmic connections 02:24:34 - Fall from grace after awakening 02:26:16 - Divine beings care about authenticity 02:28:15 - Sequel plans 02:29:57 - Praise for the Guru Viking Podcast … For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi' by Steve James

By Vince Fakhoury HornToday, in The Jhāna Community, I want to center our exploration around the completion phase—also known as enlightenment.What is the relationship between enlightenment and jhāna? That's what we'll explore.The Goal of Vipassana JhānaIn Vipassana jhāna practice, the goal is insight—clearly seeing the way things are. This clear seeing leads to awakening, within the Buddhist frame.Trudy Goodman uses a beautiful metaphor for this, comparing the phases of insight to the phases of the moon:“Can we appreciate all the phases of the moon, all the stages of our life? Can we see past the patterns of perception that too often eclipse the wonder of being alive? Birth, growth, fullness, letting go, vanishing into the mysterious dark—these are the eternal cycles of life.”The completion phase, in this metaphor, is the full darkness of the moon: the vanishing.Describing the UnconditionedEarly Buddhist texts describe the apex of this phase—Nirvana—as a kind of vanishing. Bill Hamilton, Kenneth Folk's teacher, once said:“Nirvana is an experience of the unconditioned which defies any description. Any description of Nirvana is not a description of Nirvana.”There are no reference points. Concepts can't contain it. It's not a “thing.” It's a different kind of experience.Bodhidharma, founder of Zen, said:“When the mind reaches Nirvana, you don't see Nirvana because the mind is Nirvana.”Beyond Meditative StatesI remember talking with Kenneth Folk about how many meditation teachers end up teaching a state—a temporary condition—as the goal. But awakening is not about achieving and clinging to a special state.There are moments of direct contact with the unconditioned. But the next moment might involve answering the phone, cooking dinner, or helping someone. At first, these seem like separate domains. Eventually, they can be integrated.This practice is about learning to release identification with all states—even the expansive and blissful ones.Wanting to Be “Permanently Okay”It's understandable that we want to find a place where we can be permanently okay. That desire comes from a younger part of us—vulnerable and needing security.But the adult part of awakening is what frees us to be present for life as it is—even the messy, painful, inconvenient parts.Paradoxically, it's not what we thought we signed up for. We imagined transcendence. What we found was this—the real.The Journey Doesn't End HereHere's the good news: the journey doesn't end at the completion phase. Awakening is recursive. It loops, like the moon's phases.“To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.”In early Buddhism, the highest achievement was to break out of saṃsāra. But transformation happens not by escaping, but by cycling with change.Philosopher John Vervaeke says:“Evolution is revolution with change.”If your cycles bring new learning, new understanding—that's evolution.The Big PictureThat's the bigger picture I love to teach. Meditation isn't about escaping life. It's about working with the natural cycles of our minds and lives—and transforming through them.And this isn't in contradiction to Nirvana. When the realization deepens, you see that every experience, every thought, every person is it.Even the thought, “There's somewhere else I should be”—that's it too.Embodying the MysterySo what's the point of all this state-jumping, deconstructing, and releasing?For me, part of the point is to embody the mystery.Reggie Ray writes in Touching Enlightenment:“To be awake, to be enlightened is to be fully and completely embodied… to be entirely present to who we are and to the journey of our own becoming… with no external observer waiting for something better.”That's the journey of vipassana jhāna. Nothing left out. Full intimacy with reality.Awakening Is CollectiveUltimately, awakening isn't a personal project. Everyone is on this journey—even if they'd never use those words.Martin Luther King Jr. wrote:“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny.”Awakening leads to the realization that we are in this together.Eventually, the idea of my awakening dissolves into our awakening.So Now What?So the question becomes:How can I show up fully for this moment—this body, this life, this karmic tangle of heartbreak and hope?That's the real practice.Mastering the Art of JhānaIf you found this article helpful, you may want to check out the community of practice it arose from… Get full access to Buddhist Geeks at www.buddhistgeeks.org/subscribe

Welcome back for another episode of Nick's Non-fiction with your host Nick Muniz In this book, Kenneth Folk hope to present a conceptual framework in which to place meditation and related contemplative practices, and to show how this particular branch of human development is as essential to a human life well-lived as psychological health, emotional maturity, or physical fitness. In fact, the various kinds of mental and physical fitness work together such that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; one step forward on any of the lines of human development makes it easier to access any of the others.
Sub Subscribe, Share, Mobile links & Time-stamps below! 0:00 Introduction 3:40 About the Author 5:25 Ch1: Contemplative Fitness 9:50 Ch2: Backstory 16:30 Ch3: Retreat 24:55 Ch4: Dont Stop Retreating 35:40 Ch5: The Method 42:00 Next Time & Goodbye! YouTube: https://youtu.be/tSpR1sjOUVE Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheNiche

The Vimalakīrti Sūtra is a Mahayana Buddhist text from the 2nd century CE that explores the nature of enlightenment and the teachings of the Buddha. In this contemporary commentary on the Vimalakīrti Sūtra, Pragmatic Dharma teacher Kenneth Folk shares his personal understanding of what he refers to as “a magical spell.”Episode Links:Watch the Video Version of this Talk on YoutubeKenneth Folk DharmaThe Vimalakīrti Sūtra, translated by Burton WatsonPragmatic Dharma TrainingSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Vince Fakhoury Horn is joined by long-time teacher, Kenneth Folk, to share about his beloved teacher, Bill Hamilton, who American dharma teacher Shinzen Young referred to as "an unsung hero of Western Mindfulness." Bill was an enigmatic dharma teacher who practiced in the Insight-Theravada tradition. He was the founder of the Dharma Seed library, did more than 7 years of silent retreat practice, and wrote an excellent contemporary dharma book called "Saints & Psychopaths."Episode Links:

Discussion about bioregional organizing and the @hylo project. Guest host @vincefhorn with @cognazor Guests: @clarebear8080 and @gabbymcnabb Learn more about Hylo and how to onboard your community here: https://hylozoic.gitbook.io/hylo/ Join Hylo and discover groups near you: http://hylo.com Tom Watson - Working with Terran Collective, engineering Hylo - Dancer, cartographer, novice land steward - Former youth rites of passage facilitator, former intelligence analyst, former Ultimate frisbee player - Interested in: Cultural regeneration, food-systems, right-relationship to land/water, bioregionalism Clare is a core steward of Terran Collective, where she focuses on bioregional organizing and creating technology for a regenerative future. She is a co-creator of http://Hylo.com, the prosocial coordination platform for a thriving planet. Clare lives on a homestead in Washington, where she supports Salmon Nation bioregion in organizing The Edge Prize (http://edgeprize.org). Vince Fakhoury Horn is part of a new generation of teachers & translators exploring dharma in the age of the network. A computer engineering dropout turned full-time contemplative, he spent his 20s co-founding the ground-breaking Buddhist Geeks Podcast, while simultaneously doing a full year, in total, of silent retreat practice. Vince began teaching in 2010 having been authorized in both the Pragmatic Dharma lineage of Kenneth Folk, and by Trudy Goodman, guiding teacher of InsightLA, in the Insight Meditation tradition. Vince has been called a “power player of the mindfulness movement” by Wired magazine and was featured in Wired UK's “Smart List: 50 people who will change the world.” He currently lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains outside of Asheville, North Carolina with his partner Emily Horn and their son Zander.

Tim Hwang is a Certified Mindfulness Meditation Teacher (CMT-P) by the International Mindfulness Teachers Association and licensed occupational therapist specializing in integrative and mental health. Since 2009, he has dedicated himself to serving others in order to feel more empowered, happy, and fulfilled. With over a decade of clinical experience in the wellness space, Tim is dedicated to helping others find ways to improve their mental, physical, and spiritual wellbeing.He has trained with world experts in the field of meditation including Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield, Rick Hanson, Kenneth Folk, Loch Kelly and Bart Van Melik. He has been studying social noting and meditation with Kenneth Folk of the Pragmatic Dharma lineage, who has encouraged him to teach. He has been trained by the following organizations: The Interdependence Project, Mindful Schools, Unified Mindfulness, Buddhist Geeks, and The Lineage Project. He is currently enrolled in Sounds True and UC Berkeley's Mindfulness Meditation Teacher Certification Program with Jack Kornfield and Tara Brach.He is also a member of the Emergent Phenomenology Research Consortium (EPRC) and is helping to advise, consult, and communicate signs, symptoms, and safety with possible emergent phenomena that can result with spiritual practice in order to improve mindfulness teachers standards.https://www.timhwang.co

Vince Fakhoury Horn is part of a new generation of teachers, facilitators, & translators bringing dharma to life. A computer engineering dropout turned full-time contemplative, Vince spent his 20s co-founding the ground-breaking Buddhist Geeks podcast, while simultaneously doing a full year, in total, of silent retreat practice. Vincent began teaching in 2010 and has since been authorized in both the Pragmatic Dharma lineage of Kenneth Folk, and by Trudy Goodman, guiding teacher of InsightLA. Vince has been called a “power player of the mindfulness movement” by Wired magazine and was featured in Wired UK's “Smart List: 50 people who will change the world.” He currently lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains outside of Asheville, North Carolina with his partner Emily Horn and their son Zander. Please enjoy! Please visit https://nishantgarg.me/podcasts for more info. Follow Nishant: Friday Newsletter: https://garnishant-91f4a.gr8.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nishant-garg-b7a20339/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Nishant82638150 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NishantMindfulnessMatters/

On this episode of Doomer Optimism, Dr. Jason Snyder (@cognazor)has a discussion with Vince Horn (@VinceFHorn)about Buddhism, homesteading, and what it means to find peace (and even joy) in our current moment of perpetual crisis. About Vince Horn Vince Fakhoury Horn is part of a new generation of teachers & translators exploring dharma in the age of the network. A computer engineering dropout turned full-time contemplative, he spent his 20s co-founding the ground-breaking Buddhist Geeks Podcast, while simultaneously doing a full year, in total, of silent retreat practice. Vince began teaching in 2010 having been authorized in both the Pragmatic Dharma lineage of Kenneth Folk, and by Trudy Goodman, guiding teacher of InsightLA, in the Insight Meditation tradition. Vince has been called a “power player of the mindfulness movement” by Wired magazine and was featured in Wired UK's “Smart List: 50 people who will change the world.” He currently lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains outside of Asheville, North Carolina with his partner Emily Horn and their son Zander. About Dr. Jason Snyder Metamodern localist | homesteading, permaculture, bioregional regeneration | meditation, self inquiry, embodied cognition | PhD from Michigan State University, faculty Appalachian State University.

In this dharma talk–taken from a Pragmatic Dharma Retreat–Kenneth Folk speaks about Bahiya, the best student in the history of the world, and about the worst student in the history of the world, none other than the Buddha himself. At the end, Kenneth leads this 4-part practice:1) Inventory - Ask yourself: is there any unpleasant tension in the body? "Yes, there's tension in my neck, forehead, arm pits, mid-back, right hip, etc."2) Release tension consciously3) Surrender fully to the experience4) Releasing & surrendering are last ditch efforts to control. Things are as they are, "in the sensed is only the sensed."Episode Links:Kenneth FolkBahiya SuttaMemorable Quotes:"Mara doesn't get to have an opinion about that." – Kenneth FolkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this dharma teaching / guided meditation–given during a Pragmatic Dharma Retreat in 2018–Kenneth Folk re-enacts the Anupada Sutta, an early Buddhist text in which the Buddha recounts a tale of Sāriputta moving through each of the 8 jhanas (meditative absorptions), completing the series with the attainment of nibanna. May you awaken while contemplating these instructions!Episode Links:

In this talk, recorded during a Pragmatic Dharma Retreat, Kenneth Folk lays out a meta-system for understanding the different understandings of deep Jhana or meditative absorption and their relationship to the Theravada Buddhist system, the progress of insight knowledges (aka Ñanas).memorable links:

In this special guided meditation, recorded during a Pragmatic Dharma Retreat, Kenneth Folk does a masterful job of pointing out the four progressive stages of meditative absorption, colloquially known as jhana. For best results, we suggest finding a place to listen to this episode, where you can remain undistracted.episode links:Kenneth FolkMindfulness Retreats Onlinememorable quotes:"Like a skilled wine taster, one day you will learn to recognize these flavors." – Kenneth FolkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Vince Horn teaches Tasshin Social Metta Meditation, an approach he and Emily Horn developed at Buddhist Geeks based on Kenneth Folk's Social Meditation. Social Meditation Guide May It Arise Pith Metta Social Thanksgiving The Four Immeasurables

In this episode I am joined by Anna Lutkajtis author of ‘Dark Side of the Dharma: Meditation, Madness, and Other Maladies on the Contemplative Path’. Anna is a postgraduate researcher at the University of Sydney who’s research focuses on mysticism, the dark night of the soul, and the healing potential of altered states of consciousness. We learn how Anna’s own existential crisis saw her embark on a spiritual quest, including deep exploration of meditation and yoga, and close contact with pragmatic dharma teachers Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk. Anna reveals where a senior teacher placed her on the 4-path model of enlightenment, and why that framework is no longer the focus of her personal practice. We also discuss Anna’s research into adverse meditation effects, explore three different theories of the dark night of the soul, and consider the friction points between enlightenment and psychological health. Anna then asks me about my experience sharing meditation with others and we discuss my interests in the parallels between mindfulness and mainstream Christianity, the mechanisms of religious conversion, and the pros and cons of intensive retreat. … Video version available at: https://www.guruviking.com/ep91-anna-lutkajtis-dark-side-of-the-dharma/ Episode also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
 … Topics Include: 00:00 - Intro 01:10 - Anna’s meditation history 04:38 - Encountering Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk 09:53 - Personal outcome of working 1-1 with Kenneth Folk 11:03 - Fire kasina practice and yoga asana 11:40 - Anna’s fire kasina story 15:56 - Anna’s ‘relentless seeking phase’ 16:57 - Perspective on the 4-path model 19:22 - Who diagnosed Anna’s path attainments and on what basis? 20:59 - Anna’s dark night, depression, and Daniel Ingram’s help 24:59 - 3 different dark night theories 29:40 - Scripting and experience construction 33:36 - Why are adverse meditation effects ignored? 36:00 - Religious vs psychological friction points 40:18 - Bikkhu Analayo’s critique 42:57 - Defining ‘adverse effects’ 44:53 - Trauma and adverse meditation effects 45:51 - Pros and cons of intensive retreat 48:03 - Frequency of adverse meditation effects 52:29 - The goals of practice 55:21 - Further definitions and variables 1:00:02 - Spiritual but not religious? 1:03:32 - Mindfulness as a religious movement 1:05:17 - Peak experiences and religious conversion 1:07:20 - Dangers of psychedelic-assisted therapy 1:07:50 - Encountering resistance during research and publication 1:11:51 - Anna’s psychedelic research 1:12:25 - The life-cycle of the mindfulness trend ... Buy Anna’s book with discount code DS20 (valid until 4/30/21): - USA https://redwheelweiser.com/detail.html?id=9781913504595 - UK https://www.aeonbooks.co.uk/product/the-dark-side-of-dharma-meditation-madness-and-other-maladies-on-the-contemplative-path/94921/ To find our more about Anna Ludkajtis, visit: - https://annalutkajtis.com/ For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

Why Metadharma? is an unusual episode of the Deconstructing Yourself podcast, in that it’s Part 2 of a joint interview between Vince and Michael Taft. Part 1 appeared on the Buddhist Geeks podcast recently, and they continue the conversation here.The topic of these discussions is a subject that both speakers are actively developing, called “metadharma.” In brief, metadharma refers to the many different ways that the dharma is being adapted, remixed, and redefined to meet the unique challenges and opportunities of the current moment.Vincent Horn is part of a new generation of teachers & translators exploring dharma in the age of the network. A computer engineering dropout turned full-time contemplative, he spent his 20s co-founding the ground-breaking Buddhist Geeks Podcast, while simultaneously doing a full year, in total, of silent retreat practice. Vincent began teaching in 2010 having been authorized in both the Pragmatic Dharma lineage of Kenneth Folk, and by Trudy Goodman, guiding teacher of InsightLA, in the Insight Meditation tradition. Vincent has been called a “power player of the mindfulness movement” by Wired magazine and was featured in Wired UK’s “Smart List: 50 people who will change the world.” He currently lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains outside of Asheville, North Carolina with his partner Emily Horn and their son Zander.More about the Buddhist Geeks farm here.Listen to David Chapman talk about metasystematicity here.

Pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and host Michael W. Taft discuss what it means to be mindful, various definitions of being mindful in the moment, the trouble with remaining mindful during an entire sit, and more.Kenneth Folk is an instructor of meditation who has received worldwide acknowledgement for his innovative approach to secular Buddhist meditation. Learn more about him and his work at Kenneth Folk Dharma.Show Notes0:48 Introduction and overview 4:00 Deconstructing “mindfulness” 11:47 Kenneth’s new mindfulness practice 15:02 Mindfulness vs. checking the box; auditor vs. meditator 23:58 Is mindfulness enlightening? 30:03 Defining engagement and the problem with prescriptions 31:52 Sense doors and applying mindfulness to thoughts 36:06 Alternatives to meditation for experiencing mindfulness and awakening 42:37 Is there a “right” way to experience awakening? 47:25 Getting to a 100 percent attention 52:45 Liberating working memory from the feeling of being the observer 55:06 Concentration hacking: making experiences sufficiently interesting 59:27 Flow and how it relates to mindfulness 1:06:23 How important is the ability to concentrate? 1:12:04 Do you need clarity, concentration, or both?You can help to create future episodes of this podcast by contributing through Patreon.

Pragmatic dharma teacher and host Michael W. Taft feel the power of the dark side, talk about nirvana, deconstruct the concept of nirvana, dive deep into the reality of death, look at the denial of death, and probably scare away all listeners.Kenneth Folk is an instructor of meditation who has received worldwide acknowledgement for his innovative approach to secular Buddhist meditation. Learn more about him and his work at Kenneth Folk Dharma.Show Notes0:25 – Introduction and overview 2:20 – Preferring to be conscious or not conscious 5:28 – Avoiding eternalism and entertaining the possibility of death…or immortality 11:33 – The enjoyability of oblivion/nirvana (and establishing a definition of both) 19:15 – The Buddha presents a life extinction program, not a life improvement program 25:28 – Fear and denial of death, and rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic 33:15 – The relief of accepting the reality of death 34:48 – Enlightenment as a real-time report about what’s arising in experience 37:52 – The limitations of coming to meditation as a life improvement program 41:10 – Kenneth’s current practice assessing mindfulness, checking for tightness and temporarily suspending the self model 48:45 – The preposterousness of eradicating the self 53:41 – The Dharma Overground forums and posters having bad days after attaining some level of enlightenment 58:31 – How do know anything? Does Kenneth feel like he has any special or ultimate knowledge? 1:03:53 – Certitude is just another feeling on a level playing field with all others 1:12:10 – Awakening experiences invalidating each other: the second awakening erodes some of the truth of the first 1:14:10 – The universe is under no obligation to make sense to youYou can help to create future episodes of this podcast by contributing through Patreon.

Pragmatic dharma teacher Kenneth Folk and host Michael W. Taft discuss what it means to be mindful, various definitions of being mindful in the moment, the trouble with remaining mindful during an entire sit, and more.Kenneth Folk is an instructor of meditation who has received worldwide acknowledgement for his innovative approach to secular Buddhist meditation. Learn more about him and his work at Kenneth Folk Dharma.Show Notes0:48 Introduction and overview4:00 Deconstructing “mindfulness”11:47 Kenneth’s new mindfulness practice15:02 Mindfulness vs. checking the box; auditor vs. meditator23:58 Is mindfulness enlightening?30:03 Defining engagement and the problem with prescriptions31:52 Sense doors and applying mindfulness to thoughts36:06 Alternatives to meditation for experiencing mindfulness and awakening42:37 Is there a “right” way to experience awakening?47:25 Getting to a 100 percent attention52:45 Liberating working memory from the feeling of being the observer55:06 Concentration hacking: making experiences sufficiently interesting59:27 Flow and how it relates to mindfulness1:06:23 How important is the ability to concentrate?1:12:04 Do you need clarity, concentration, or both?You can help to create future episodes of this podcast by contributing through Patreon.

Meditation teacher Kenneth Folk joins Vincent Horn, Emily Horn, and Kelly Sosan Bearer to conclude a Geeks of the Round Table discussion on a recent Wired article, Enlightenment Engineers, that profiles Kenneth and the Buddhist Geeks as part of the developing meditation culture(s) in Silicon Valley. The group talks about Ken’s plan to enlighten the Illuminati with a Meditation Trojan Horse, whether or not there is a “right motivation” for maintaining a meditation practice, and how this all relates to the popular assumption that meditation should be free of a goal-oriented approach. This is part two of a two part series. Listen to part one BG 295: Meditating to Get Ahead. Episode Links: Enlightenment Engineers ( http://www.wired.com/business/2013/06/meditation-mindfulness-silicon-valley ) Kenneth Folk ( http://kennethfolkdharma.com )

In this episode taken from a Geeks of the Round Table Google Hangout, meditation teacher Kenneth Folk joins Buddhist Geeks Vincent Horn, Emily Horn, and Kelly Sosan Bearer to discuss a recent Wired article, Enlightenment Engineers, that profiles Kenneth and the mindfulness culture in Silicon Valley. Emily opens the conversation by asking, “Does meditation really make you more productive and wealthy? And is it a way to get ahead?” The group explores these questions and discusses how variables in an individual’s values, form of practice, and other perceptual filters affect the answers. This is part one of a two part series. Listen to part two: The Trojan Horse of Meditation. Episode Links: Kenneth Folk ( http://kennethfolkdharma.com ) Enlightenment Engineers ( http://www.wired.com/business/2013/06/meditation-mindfulness-silicon-valley )

“You can perform neurosurgery on yourself.” – Kenneth Folk This week’s episode comes from the recent Buddhist Geeks Conference, where meditation teacher Kenneth Folk spoke about his three pillars of pragmatic dharma: 1) awakening is possible, 2) I know because it happened to me, and 3) here’s how. Kenneth cycles through each of these pillars, going deeper each time, first exploring what enlightenment is–highlighting the difference between a moment of awakening and enlightenment as human development. He also speaks about why he claims that it happened to him, challenging a taboo in Buddhist culture to not speak about one’s personal experience of enlightenment. He then speaks about attention as the common denominator of all the technologies for awakening, exploring his particular approach to training attention, what he calls the 3-speed transmission. Episode Links: Kenneth Folk Dharma ( http://kennethfolkdharma.com ) The #bgeeks11 Round-Up ( http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2011/08/the-bgeeks11-round-up/ )

In this episode, the Dharma Oveground and Buddhist Geeks get enlightened, Francois Laurelle and the non-Buddhists speculate, Hokai Sobol and Kenneth Folk do their own thing. Matthew and Stuart cross the line and fumble over names. This is part 2 of our first real episode exploring a number of innovative elements in contemporary western Buddhism. We move on in our discussion from Tibet to look at the Pragmatists that emerged from the Dharma Underground and the intelligent destruction of Buddhism fuelled by French and German speaking philosophers in the form of Non-Buddhism. We also bring in some considerations of the significance of the claims of enlightenment made by a number of the Pragmatists and the importance of some of the critique made by Glenn Wallis and his cohorts. Enjoy and leave feedback, criticisms, complaints and observations at our Facebook page, Twitter feed or even here. The next episode will feature a special guest and discuss Buddhist cults! All show notes can be found at the Post-Traditional Buddhism site. Matthew O'Connell is a life coach and the host of the The Imperfect Buddha podcast. You can find The Imperfect Buddha on Facebook and Twitter (@imperfectbuddha). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, the Dharma Oveground and Buddhist Geeks get enlightened, Francois Laurelle and the non-Buddhists speculate, Hokai Sobol and Kenneth Folk do their own thing. Matthew and Stuart cross the line and fumble over names. This is part 2 of our first real episode exploring a number of innovative elements in contemporary western Buddhism. We move on in our discussion from Tibet to look at the Pragmatists that emerged from the Dharma Underground and the intelligent destruction of Buddhism fuelled by French and German speaking philosophers in the form of Non-Buddhism. We also bring in some considerations of the significance of the claims of enlightenment made by a number of the Pragmatists and the importance of some of the critique made by Glenn Wallis and his cohorts. Enjoy and leave feedback, criticisms, complaints and observations at our Facebook page, Twitter feed or even here. The next episode will feature a special guest and discuss Buddhist cults! All show notes can be found at the Post-Traditional Buddhism site. Click here for those: http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/2015/07/23/2-2-new-podcast-episode-is-out-the-dharma-oveground-the-non-buddhists/

We’re joined this week by Kenneth Folk, a long-time Theravada practitioner and meditation teacher, who describes in exquisite detail his spiritual journey. It began in earnest at the age of 24, when having done several hits of LSD, he had a life-altering experience that put him squarely on the path of seeking. Several years later, he really began gaining some traction, when he met his teacher Bill Hamilton, who claimed that enlightenment was something that could be systematically attained by applying a technique. By dedicating himself completely to those techniques, and through doing years of intensive meditation practice in the West and in Asia, Kenneth claims that he went through a gradual development through the various “stages of enlightenment,” described in the literature of Theravada Buddhism. Listen in to hear Kenneth describe these stages, as well as the many things he learned along the way. And listen in to next week’s episode, to hear Kenneth complete his story. This is part 1 of a two-part series. Listen to Part 2, Unifying Developmental Enlightenment and Timeless Realization. Episode Links: Kenneth Folk DharmaThe Progress of Insight Mahasi Sayadaw

We’re joined again this week by Kenneth Folk, a long-time Theravada practitioner and meditation teacher. Kenneth completes his harrowing spiritual story, all the way to the point, where he says that he, "got off the ride and was done." He speaks about how uncommon it is, in Western Buddhist circles, to believe that enlightenment is possible, a phenomenon that his teacher Bill Hamilton described as the "mushroom culture."Kenneth then goes on to describe two different ways of understanding enlightenment: one as a developmental process, much the way his path is described, and then two, as a timeless realization that’s available at any moment. After his awakening, Kenneth went on to explore the timeless realization through the direct teachings of Ramana Maharshi, Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle, the Dzogchen teachers of Tibet. He found that the direct and developmental teachings could be integrated, and that integration led him to what he calls the “3-speed transmission”. Listen in to hear about the 3-speed transmission, and how one can shift between levels, all the while supporting a deepening sense of awakeness and non-distracted-ness. This is part 2 of a two-part series. Listen to part 1, Ordinary People Can Get Enlightened. Episode Links: Kenneth Folk Dharma

Kenneth Folk is a personal meditation trainer known worldwide for his innovative approach to secular Buddhist meditation. After twenty years of training in the Burmese Theravada Buddhist tradition of Mahasi Sayadaw, including three years of intensive silent retreat in monasteries … Continue reading →