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Why would any leader choose to take on a transformation that requires rethinking how they lead, how their organization functions, and how they learn? In this episode, we dive deeper with Cliff Norman and David Williams, co-authors of Quality as an Organizational Strategy, exploring Chapter 11: “Getting Started.” They share powerful stories, practical steps, and the deep-rooted challenges leaders face when shifting from conventional methods to building true learning organizations grounded in Dr. Deming's philosophy. This conversation highlights why improvement cannot be delegated, why leadership transformation is essential, and how to begin the journey—with clarity, commitment, and courage. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.1 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we dive deeper into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today we are going to continue our conversation with Dave Williams and Cliff Norman about their book Quality as an Organizational Strategy. I found this book fascinating because I think it's addressing something where there's been a bit of a hole and that is how do we think about the strategy of our business? And so we already had our conversation in a prior episode about the overview of the book, but today we're going to be talking about specifically, now this is kind of funny because we're going to be talking about the back of the book and that is chapter 11, getting started. Dave, why don't you take it away?   0:00:53.3 Dave Williams: Well, thanks, Andrew. Thanks for having us back on the Deming podcast. So, as you mentioned, part of the way that the book is laid out is that it describes kind of the foundations that are behind quality as an organizational strategy and begins sort of with an introduction that explains a good bit about how Dr. Deming had this provocation of a need for leaders to transform the way that they approach leading organizations. And part of that was to move not just from process based improvement projects, but to start to think about major systems in the organization and to pursue quality as the overall strategy and create a continuous improvement organization or learning organization. And so the book lays some of the foundation behind the science of improvement or behind profound knowledge that underpin the thinking, walks through quality as an organizational strategy, as a method of five interdependent activities. Then at the end it comes back full circle to say, well, this is great, now you've learned about these theories and methods. But a natural question for any leader would be, how do I get started? And one of the first things that we talk about in that section actually is about why leaders would want to do this transformation.   0:02:30.9 Dave Williams: And this actually came from a conversation that Lloyd and Cliff and I had in 2020 where we were talking about getting on this journey of building the book. And we all kind of recognized that this was really, really hard work. And we were curious or we, we didn't have a good answer of what was our theory about why somebody would deviate from the way in which they work today and embark on a transformational change of the way that they approach leadership, the way that they approach organizations. And actually I ended up going on a journey of interviewing a whole host of leaders who had been influenced by Deming, who had been involved in improvement in healthcare, folks like Dr. Berwick and Paul Batalden and Brent James. I interviewed some folks in the UK and other places, like John Seddon, and asked them, oh and I should Blaine Godfrey, who had been the lead of the Durand Institute, and I posed the question, what causes somebody to want to embark on this change? And many people actually had a hard time articulating it. But the answer that emerged, or actually Blaine Godfrey was the one that kind of framed it the best, I think, for us, was a number of things.   0:03:57.7 Dave Williams: Sometimes it's something like a book like this comes out and people read it and it's interesting and new. Sometimes it's an event happens, a patient safety event or a major accident or something of which causes people to have to change or do something different. Sometimes it's a discouragement with a desire that you know you could do better, but you don't have methods or know how to. So there were a host of things that we listed, and those are some of a sample of them that might invite somebody to say, the way that we're working today is not getting us to the level that we want to. And now we want to embark on something different. And we might look to something like quality as an organizational strategy as a method for us to transform the way that we're working and build on the shoulders of Deming's philosophy and the science of improvement and do it differently.   0:04:56.0 Andrew Stotz: And when I look at the book, you guys are bringing together a lot of different stuff. It's not just a Deming book. It's Deming is a part of this, and that's fascinating. One of the questions I have is when we look at, let's say, a business owner, a business leader is looking for answers, as you said, maybe it's an event, maybe it's a discouragement, maybe it's a feeling like we can do better. Maybe it's just being beaten by competitors. They come to a point where they start looking for answers and they find some fantastic books, authors, ideas, consultants, all this and I think about whether that's Peter Drucker or whether that's the Lean movement or whether that's, let's say Taguchi or something like that is the teachings that you guys are talking about - and I'm going to specifically ask about the teachings of Dr. Deming. Is it more or is it more difficult or less difficult to implement than other books or styles or methods that someone's going to come across?   0:06:08.7 Cliff Norman: I have to quote one of my colleagues here who probably knew about more about Deming than anybody in API or all of us combined, that's Ron Moen, who did, I think it was 88 seminars, four-day seminars with Dr. Deming. Dr. Deming once told him, he said, Ron, I believe you've been to more of these and I've been to. And it's kind of a joke. He had a great sense of humor. But you know, Ron told me the problem with Deming is he's asking us to change. And there's all sorts of things out there that require the management and the leadership, they really don't have to do anything different. And there are several things out there. In fact, Philip Crosby, one of the three gurus during when they launched, he was more the evangelical and had a way of talking to management so that they understood it, which that was his contribution to all that. But when Six Sigma came up and black belts and all that, and Crosby looked at him and says, that's not going to change the system. He said, all you're doing is killing a bear for management, killing a bear for management, and then you'll get a black belt.   0:07:19.9 Cliff Norman: You know, And I thought, wow that's pretty profound. Because the management at that point doesn't have to do anything, just have the black belt ceremony. There's absolutely no change on their part. Where Deming, as Ron says, he's kind of a pain. You've got to learn about variation, you got to learn about Shewhart charts. You've got to be able to put together a family of measures for your organization. You've got to understand your organization's system. You need to understand psychology, you need to understand theory of knowledge and how people learn how they change. And nothing else out there puts that on leaders. And so that was a question that Dave was lending back to. Why would somebody do this to themselves? You know, why would they take on this whole extra thing to learn and all the rest of it. And for the people that I know that have made that, that bridge, the pure joy that they get and the rewards they get from people who are learning and that they're leading and that they're changing and they're able to go to other organizations and repeat this and call them up and say, thank you so much for helping me learn how to be a real leader.   0:08:35.8 Cliff Norman: I mean, that's the reward in it. But it requires a real change on the part of the leader. And I don't know of anything else, Andrew, that actually requires that kind of in depth change. And there was one of our leaders, Joe Balthazar, he had Jane and I do four years in a row with his leadership team, teach them the science of improvement. The same curriculum, same leaders, four years in a row. And the second year I was doing it, I said, don't we need... No, no, Cliff, I want you to do exactly what you did last year. He said, it takes years for people to understand this. And I thought, wow, this is unbelievable. But on the fourth year, the VP of sales walked up to me and he says, I think I figured it out. And I thought, wow. And it does it literally... Because you've got to depart from where you've been and start thinking about how you're going to change and let go of what's made you successful up to this point. And that's hard, that's hard for anybody to do.   0:09:47.2 Cliff Norman: And anybody's been through that four day seminar knows when they crossed that path that all of a sudden they had to say, you know what I've been doing, I can see where I've been, the problem and not the solution. And that's tough for us. That really is tough. And Deming says you have to give up that guilt trip. And once you understand the theory of variation, once you understand systems, once you understand psychology and theory of knowledge, it's time then for you to move on and let go of the guilt. I hope that makes sense. But that's the difficulty in this.   0:10:17.6 Andrew Stotz: It reminds me of two, it made me think about two things. I mean, I was just a 24 year old guy when I attended the seminars that I did, and they weren't even four day. I think they were two-day ones at Quality Enhancement Seminars in, what was it, George Washington, I think. But the point that I remember, as just a young guy who I was, I pretty much admired all these business leaders. And then to see Dr. Deming really nail em to the wall and say it's about you changing. And whether he was saying that directly or whether that he was implying that through the Red Bead experiment or other things, it's about you shaping the system. That really blew me away because I had already read some books and I was pretty excited. And then it also made me think about, let's say there's a really good book, I would say Good to Great by Jim Collins that highlights some things that you can do to succeed and make your business better. And you can just buy that book and hand it to your management team and go, hey, implement what you learned from this book.   0:11:20.8 Andrew Stotz: Whereas with the Deming book, it's like there's just so much more to it. So I guess the answer to this is it is more takes time. There's more thinking going on. And I think that's part of the whole point of what your book does, is to help us map it out. So why don't we go through and think about this and kind of maybe step by step through what is the starting point and how do we go?   0:11:45.4 Cliff Norman: Andrew, I just got to add to what you just said there and go back to Joe Balthazar at Hallmark Building Supplies. He shared with me that, and he's the one that said I want you to do these four year seminars dedicated Deming's idea of Profound knowledge. And he said, Cliff, the day I made it, I knew I'd made it. Is my son Joey spilled his milk. He's about three years old. And he said, I started to do my normal leap across the table and he said I was about mid air. And I thought, oh my, this is what they do. This is part of their system. This is common. And I'm treating this like it's special. And that was so profound for him. And when, when you move beyond the Shewhart chart and you see events in your life around you relative to the theory of variation, common and special cause variation at a deep way like that, that's the kind of transformation you want to see in a leader. And Joe will tell you he's forever grateful for Deming and everything he's learned, and I think that's the reward. But people need to be willing to go on that journey, as Dave was saying.   0:12:53.0 Andrew Stotz: So Dave, why don't you walk us through a little bit of what you guys are teaching in that chapter.   0:13:00.3 Dave Williams: Sure. Well, one of the next steps obviously is if somebody, if a leadership team thinks that they want to go on this journey, there's some considerations they got to think about. As we've already sort of alluded to or touched on, this is a leadership responsibility and a leadership change. And so there's got to be will amongst the leadership team in order to say we want to work together and work hard to do this work. That this is not something that, similar to Cliff's example of say, having black belts, that we can just hand it off, somebody else will do it, and we can just keep going about our business and hope. It's important that leaders spend time recognizing and thinking about the fact that this is going to involve them doing work, doing effort, changing the way that they think, changing the way that they practice. And I like to say it's good hard work. I mean it's going to be something that's deeply rewarding. But it does require them to have that will. And with will then it's going to come time and energy, right? They've got to make the space, they've got to create regular routines and opportunities for them to learn just in terms of content, learn in terms of practice or application and learn in the process of doing the improvement work and doing the change to the way that they work in the organization.   0:14:38.0 Dave Williams: So there's going to be a need to build in that ability. And then a third thing is to ask whether you think this is something that you can do on your own or whether it might be useful to have help. And help may be an internal, a consultant, but likely not to promote consulting it but, but there's a good chance that you're going to need somebody that has both experience in improvement and helping people do results-driven improvement as well as somebody who has experience doing system wide change through a lens like QOS. And, and the advantage of that often is it it gives you as a leadership team to focus in on your job of thinking and looking and learning and allow somebody else to be an external intervener, somebody who comes in and creates some of the support, some of the context, some of the ways that can make it easier for you to step back and look at your organization in a different way. And so many times those are some of the things that should be considered as teams working through it. Cliff, what would you add or improve upon.   0:16:07.3 Cliff Norman: The idea of external help. Deming was pretty black and white about that. I was kind of surprised. I went back and read one of his quotes. He said, "I should mention also the costly fallacy held by many people in management that a consultant must know all about a process in order to work on it. All evidence is exactly the contrary. Competent men in every position, from top management to the humblest worker know all there is to know about their work except how to improve it. Help towards improvement can come only from outside knowledge." And I was reflecting on that today with Jane who's been involved in this for 40 plus years also. I said Jane, when he said that, I think it was accurate because at that time she and I were going to Duran seminars. There's only two books out there with methods. One was Ishikawa's book on Guide to Quality Control. And the other was Feigenbaum's book. And then of course you had Duran's book on The Quality Handbook, which was a nice doorstop. But there wasn't that much knowledge about improvement. And the worst part where Deming was really getting to was there's very few people you'd run into that actually under the Shewhart methods and charts and understand the difference between special and common cause variation.   0:17:27.0 Cliff Norman: And so you had to bring that kind of knowledge in from the outside. And frankly, we've had people go off the rails here. You know, Dr. Deming in the teaching of statistics has identified analytic studies which is focused on looking at data over time and trying to understand that and simple methods and approaches and then what he calls enumerative statistics, which is use of T tests, F tests and all the rest of it, which assumes that under the IDD principle that data is independent and identically distributed. Well, if you have any special causes in the data set, it blows up both of those assumptions and the use of those methods doesn't offer any help in prediction. And as Dr. Deming often said, prediction is the problem. And then go back to Shewhart. And Shewhart said, things in nature are inherently stable, but man-made processes are inherently unstable. So when Dave and I first do a Shewhart chart for a client, we don't expect for it to be stable. We expect for to have special causes. And as Dr. Deming said and also Dr. Juran, that when you get a stable system, that in and of itself is an achievement, that means nobody's messing around with the system anymore.   0:18:43.0 Cliff Norman: And you see this in the simplest things, like in an office, somebody will walk in and they think that their body is the standard for what the internal temperature should be for that room. So then they walk up and they start tampering with the thermostat. And by the end of the day everybody's irritated because we've had so many bodies up there with their standard. Moving the funnel on us here, and just leaving it alone would probably all be better off. But you have to learn that. And I think that's what Dr. Deming was saying, is that that kind of knowledge is going to come from the outside. Now the good news is is that since he wrote that in 1986, we've got a lot of people out there and some of them are in organizations that do understand the Shewhart methods and can understand the difference between common and special cause variation. They do understand the difference between a new and analytic studies and statistics and they can be of help. So the Deming Institute has a room full of these people show up, but they're at their gatherings annually. So we're a lot further along than we were in 1986.   0:19:45.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. So let's go through that for just a second. Some considerations you've talked about. You know that it's a leadership change. Right. And you gotta ask yourself, are we ready to work on this? And you know, this is not a hands-off thing. The second thing you talked about is time and energy. Are we ready to make the space for this? We have to have regular meetings. You know, we've gotta really... There's some work involved here. And then the third part you've talked about is outside help. And you mentioned about this story of Joe Balthazar and how he asked you to do the same topic over and over for four years. And imagine if he was telling his team, let's meet and try to implement some of this stuff on our own. Everybody dig into a book and then let's try. It would be very difficult to make that kind of progress compared to bringing an outside person. Which also brings me to the last thing that you said, Cliff, which was the idea that Dr. Deming had mentioned, that you need an outside person to truly change something. Everybody's got the expertise on the inside.   0:20:44.5 Cliff Norman: I appreciate you summarizing that because my job and working with Joe and leadership team, I was meeting with him every month. But what the four years that Jane and I spent were the next levels of his leadership. You know, it wasn't the leadership team. And I'm glad you brought that up because it was the very next level that he wanted exposed to this and the VP of sales that came in, he was new, so he had to be part of this group because he wasn't there originally. And so there was that ongoing... He wanted that next generation that was going to take over for him and the others to really understand this. So I'm glad you summarized that for me to help.   0:21:30.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I think one of the starting points too, I mean, the body of work, not just this book, but the other books that you guys have been involved in and produced provide a lot of the starting points for this. So there's a lot there. Dave, where do we go after these considerations? And the people say, okay, yeah, leadership says, we want to make this change. We're ready to make some time for it. We're willing to get outside support and help. Where do we go next.   0:21:57.7 Dave Williams: Right. Well, one thing that we typically invite a leadership team to do is to take kind of a self assessment of where they sort of see their baseline in relation to the methods and activities of QOS. So in chapter one of the book, there's actually a table that is 10 different categories. And then each leader takes it independently and they rate their level of agreement with different definitions from 0 to 10. 0 being this really isn't present, and 10 is, I'm very, very far along on this journey that in the book that's out now, there's a summarized table, it's on a page. But actually in the QOS field guide that we're working on publishing this year, there's a much more detailed version that we use in practice that has deeper definitions, but basically it works its way through purpose and leadership and systems thinking and measurement and all the things that are tied into QOS and what... And as I mentioned, we have each individual member of the leadership team take it independently and then we bring those scores together to learn together.   0:23:32.5 Dave Williams: And there's different ways in which you can display it. In the book, we show an example of a leadership team's scatter plot where it shows the rating and then it also shows the standard deviation amongst that exists between the leadership team. It's very, very common for leaders to not be in agreement in terms of their score in each of the different areas. You know what I said, It's a 0 to 10 scale. Typically, in my experience using the tool, people tend to be between a 2 and a 6 and hovering around a 2 or a 4. But it sort of looks like a buckshot or shotgun blast where there's a very... If you were to put dots where everybody scores, where there's variation that exists. And that's good because it's useful for the team to pause and think about why they assess the organization the way that they did. Looking at it through this new lens, where are the places that there's agreement and also where are the places that there's variation? And that helps them to be able to think about the fact that through this process, they're likely to both improve their assessment of the organization, but also increase their agreement about where they are and what they need to do to move forward and what they need to do to improve.   0:25:05.2 Dave Williams: And so that's a useful starting point, gets everybody kind of on the same page, and it's something that we can use at intervals as one of the ways to continually come back and evaluate progress towards the destination of pursuing quality as an organizational strategy.   0:25:23.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I mean, I imagine that self assessment, it helps you too when you work with companies to be able to really understand, okay, here are starting point with this company is really, they just really don't know much about all of this stuff, whereas you'll have some other clients that basically, wow, okay, there's a lot of knowledge here about it, but how's the implementation and all that? So are we ready to change? Are we prepared to devote the time and energy? Are we going to get outside help? And where are we now? What's our starting point that's great to help us understand exactly how you step through it. What comes next?   0:26:03.5 Cliff Norman: Well, in that very first milestone, in that table, is it table three, Dave? Anyway, the very first milestone is to establish formal improvement efforts. And the reason for that is that unless people experience what it takes to develop, test and implement changes in the organizations, they really can't appreciate the structure that comes with quality as an organizational strategy. Because it's very difficult for many organizations to launch three or four improvement efforts and then bring them to fruition. And there's all sorts of stuff that happens. And then you find out very quickly whether you have managers or leaders, and organizations they've brought me in, they say, let's do some leadership training. I said, no, let's just do some improvement and then we'll find out if we have leaders or not. And one group, I won't mention who it was, but they had five people on their leadership team and they had to replace two of them because they found out they couldn't actually manage an improvement effort. And then the CEO was wondering how they actually manage their organization, which they weren't either. And so it's a rather, it's an important test in the front.   0:27:22.2 Cliff Norman: But as Dr. Juran says, it's real important to develop the habit of improvement. And if you don't know what that is, if you've never experienced it, then it's hard to say to people, gee, I need a purpose that aligns my improvement efforts. I need to understand my system so I know where those improvements are going on. I need to build an information system, get information from customers outside, people inside. I need to put together a strategic plan that actually makes improvements on purpose. That's a lot of work. And once you understand how complicated it can get in terms of just doing three or four improvement efforts and then all of a sudden you got a portfolio of 30 to do your strategic plan. Now that needs some structure, that needs some guidance and all the rest of it. But I'll just go back one step further. My own journey. I was sent by Halliburton at Otis Engineering to go see Dr. Deming 1982 in February. And coming back, I had an audience with the president of our organization, Purvis Thrash. And I went on and on about Dr. Deming. He said, Cliff, you know what I'd like to have? I said, what's up, Mr. Thrash?   0:28:27.5 Cliff Norman: He says, if you'll take this 50 million dollar raw material problem and solve this for me, I'll be a happy man and I'll give you all the quality you want. But go take care of that problem for me first and then come back to me and talk about Deming and Juran and anything else you want to talk about. So I put together four or five people and over about three months we solved his 50 million dollar raw material problem. And then he had a meeting of all executives and I was sitting with the managers in the back row and he called me to the front and he says, Cliff, will you sign this card right here? And I says, well Mr. Thrash, what is this? He says, well, I'm giving you authority to sign $50,000 anytime you need it to get all the quality we can stand here at Otis Engineering. One of the vice presidents said, well, I don't have that authority. He said, you didn't save me $50 million. You know, but once that happens, Andrew, once you do that, then you've got people that are willing to help you. And then once that takes place, I can't tell you how important, it allowed me then to bring in Lloyd Provost to help me.   0:29:36.2 Cliff Norman: And they weren't about to pay out money. They didn't like consultants, in fact, they were anti-consultant. But you saved us $50 million. I gave you $50,000. And Lloyd doesn't make that much. So get him in here, do whatever you need to go do. And I just think it's so critical that we have that demonstration project that people understand at the leadership level what we're talking about when we talk about design and redesign of the system.   0:30:00.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. I mean, I appreciate in the book you're talking about this concept. I'm not going to call it quick wins, but the idea is we need to get results. You know, this isn't just about talking about stuff so that's one thing that as you just illustrated, that's one point. The second thing you mentioned, is this person a leader or a manager? You know, and I think for the listeners or viewers out there, they're probably... When they heard you say that, they're probably thinking. Okay, wait a minute. Are my team managers or leaders? How do I know? What would you say? What differentiates the two?   0:30:37.2 Cliff Norman: I was fortunate to hang around Dr. Maccabee, as Deming did, and I asked Dr. Maccabee that question. He said, Cliff it's actually pretty easy. He said leaders have followers, and if you have followers, you can be anywhere in the organization, be a leader, but if you don't have followers, you're not a leader. You might be a manager with authority. You're not a leader.   0:31:02.7 Andrew Stotz: Can I ask a little bit more on that? So I'm thinking about my own business, which is a coffee factory, and I have people that are running the business, but I also have people that are running departments like the roasting department. And that area when they're overseeing this and they're doing a very good job and they're keeping things up and all that. How do I understand in a sense you could say, are they followers? Well, not really. They're people working for them and they have a good time and so do I view that person as not necessarily a leader, but more of a manager, or how do I look at it in my own company?   0:31:35.5 Cliff Norman: It could be a manager, which is essential to the organization. And that's another big difference. You see, the leader can't delegate their relationship with the people who are followers. You can't do that any more than a teacher can dedicate her class to a substitute teacher. Anybody that's ever watched that knows that chaos is getting ready to break out here because that teacher has a relationship with those students. She knows them all in a big way. And when the substitute comes in is game time in most classrooms and so forth, the managers have skills and things that they're applying and they can actually delegate those. Like when I was a foreman, I could have somebody come in and take over my department and I say assign all my people tomorrow. And they could do that. Now, in terms of the people that I was leading that saw me as a leader in that department, they didn't have that relationship.   0:32:30.2 Cliff Norman: But management or skills and necessary things to make the organization run like you're talking about, the coffee is not going to get out the door unless I have people with subject matter knowledge and competent managers to make sure that the T's are getting crossed, the I's dotted and the rest of it. But the leadership of the organization that has followers, that's a whole different person. And I think it's important. That could be anywhere in the organization. Like I had at Halliburton, I had a VP of engineering. Everybody went to him, everybody. He had 110 patents. You know, he built that system. He built the whole organization. So the CEO did not have the followers that the VP of engineering had. And it was well earned. It's always earned, too.   0:33:16.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Okay, that's great. Leaders have followers. Leaders cannot delegate their authority. They have a different relationship.   0:33:24.0 Cliff Norman: They can't delegate the relationship.   0:33:25.8 Andrew Stotz: The relationship. Okay.   0:33:27.4 Cliff Norman: Yeah. Very important.   0:33:34.3 Andrew Stotz: So now let's go back to what, where we were. So we were saying some of the considerations. Are we ready to change? Are we prepared to devote the time and energy? Are we ready to get outside help and where are we now? And that self assessment that you talked about helps us to understand what's our starting point. I always tell a joke with my students about this when I talk about. I'd say, imagine you go to London and you're going to go visit your friend and you call your friend up, you say, I've arrived and I'm calling from a phone booth and just tell me how to get there. And the friend says, well, where are you? And you say, I'm not really sure. Well, do you see anything around you? Yeah, well, there's lots of buildings, but I don't really, you know. Well, do you see any names of any streets? No, I don't really see anything. But just tell me how to get there. There's something missing. If we don't know where we are, it's very difficult to get to where we're going. So now we understand where we are. We got that scatter plot that you guys have that you've talked about. Dave, where do we go next?   0:34:26.6 Dave Williams: Well, so Cliff already mentioned one of the fundamentals. And sometimes I think this is something that people struggle with because they want to jump into something new. But one of the best starting points is to focus in on improvement. And there's a number of different reasons for that. So one is that I don't know about you all, but in my experience, if I ask people, like, hey, I want to create some improvement projects and get started on improvement, I always tell people, like, if you remember the old Stephen Covey exercise where he put the rocks and the stones and the sand into a jar and poured water. And like you would do it in different orders. And I'm fascinated that people will stare at the big rocks or the things that are right in front of them, or the things that are on their agenda, or the things that are part of their strategy. And then they'll look to the side and grab some rare event or some extra thing that isn't related to that, but they've always wanted to work on. And where we try to focus people's attention is one, what are you already working on? Can you look through your and ask around, what are the things that are currently in play, projects that exist? And sometimes we won't ask, what improvement projects do you have? Because if you do that, you get a short list.   0:35:51.4 Dave Williams: Those are the things that people defined as an improvement effort, or maybe use some kind of framing to decide it was an improvement project. It may be better to in the beginning of the book, in the first chapter, we talk about different ways that you improve. And there's designing and redesigning a process. There's designing and redesigning a service or a product. There's changing a whole system. And so it can be useful to say, well, what are we doing in these areas? And that may actually create a bigger list of the various things where people are working on something that's about change to the system that may lend itself to be better activated through firing it up as an improvement project. And then, of course, there's a good chance that any organization, especially if they've done some kind of strategic planning, have some strategic objectives or some strategic priorities which they've committed to or already said, these are the things we're going to work on. So kind of crowdsourcing or bringing those together helps us to potentially find the early portfolio of projects without having to look much further, without having to say, what else do you want to work on.   0:37:07.0 Dave Williams: And then if we've got that, if we've got that list, a second thing that we can do is invite people to use the three questions of the model for improvement and reflect on can you answer these three questions? Do you know what you're trying to accomplish? Do you know how a change will result in improvement? Do you know what changes you'll make? What's your theory about how you'll get to improvement? And so having a list of the things that are already present or existing may be one first step. Another second step in the firing up a portfolio of improvement projects is asking the three questions for the model for improvement. And then a third one, if it's an active project is we have a project progress scale that you might use that can help you gauge. So I've got a project where is it on its journey towards achieving its aim or getting results? Those three can help us to sort of get a sense of the work that is at hand and that has already been sort of started in some fashion that is already in progress and maybe to get a sense of the level of definition and the progress that exists.   0:38:22.3 Dave Williams: They may not be the right projects, but that's a good place to start before trying to create new ones. And I'll hand it to you, Andrew.   0:38:30.4 Andrew Stotz: I find that interesting. Both the story that you told Cliff about fix my raw material problem and then, Dave, what you're talking about is as you talk in the book, focus first on improvement. What are we already working on? What's an improvement project we've got? What's a problem we've got? Because a lot of times, let's say in the teachings of Dr. Deming, it's like, no, get your mind right, read this stuff, read this, figure this out, think about this, go to a seminar, talk to other people before you do anything. I feel like that is oftentimes where people get caught is they get caught up in, I need a year to think about this. And can you explain a little bit more about why once we've done our self assessment and we're ready to go, that you focus on improvement rather than the thinking process?   0:39:21.7 Dave Williams: Well, because we want to... Well, one, we know that in order to get results or to get a different result than what we want, we got to change the system that we got. Right. So in order to do that, we've got to do improvement. The other thing is that there's already energy that's being expended here.   0:39:41.4 Andrew Stotz: That's a good point.   0:39:42.7 Dave Williams: The risk that often I find people run into is that they then add other projects that are not strategic into that bucket and take up more energy. I'll tell you an example. I was working with the health system here in the States and we crowdsource just the things that they were calling improvement projects. The health system had 25 active teams that were just the ones that were called out as improvement projects. When we looked at those 25 teams, the vast majority of them were not actually... They had been meeting for months and doing things for quite some time, but they actually weren't doing any changes and, or they've been testing changes for quite some time. So, now just this exercise alone by only asking, what improvement projects do you have? You realize you've got 25 teams that have been resourced or are spending energy or going to meetings or focused on something. They may not be the strategic thing that matters, but that's irrelevant right now. We just know that we already have invested some interest here. The second thing is these folks have been on this journey for quite some time and are not making progress.   0:41:01.7 Dave Williams: So that tells me something about maybe the way that they framed it. Did they charter it well? Did they have the right people in the room or the right team? Did they have the right tools and methods to be able to break down the problem and then figure out what to test and learn? So there may be some difficulty...   0:41:19.4 Andrew Stotz: Or did they even just dissipate their efforts across 25 projects too? Right in their resources, yeah.   0:41:26.1 Dave Williams: Yeah. Or there are overlaps? So there's a number of different factors. There's actually a paper that was published by a health system in the United Kingdom, and it was really interesting. They spent a lot of attention on generating will through training and getting people in the classroom and teaching them about improvement methods. And they fired up all this energy. They had a massive explosion of the number of projects that were started or where somebody went into their software. They had a software platform. Anybody could go and start a project. Well, something like 50% of those projects never actually got to PDSA testing where they changed anything. And then there were a slew of them that were stuck in PDSA testing but never saw any movement in their process measures or their outcome measures. And only a small number actually progressed in achieving their aim. And I asked the Chief Quality Officer about this, and and he admittedly said that it was very exciting that we we're generating will and getting things going, but that alone was only getting them to maybe some early design and some thinking, but they weren't getting them to results.                                                                         0:42:34.8 Dave Williams: And I said, well, what about the ones that were getting results? And he said, well, those are actually ones where we've got an improvement advisor who's got some skills and ability and improvement. There are things that are resourced, there are things that were prioritized. And man, when we did all those things, they moved from planning and organizing and thinking to testing changes and moving in a direction of goodness and getting at least results in their process measures, if not their outcome measures. And so in my mind, I was like, I appreciate you're trying to build this sort of culture, but it felt like a lot of burnt energy at the front end with all these teams getting into training and firing up their software and more energy might have been strategic in copying what was getting to results. And I think that's part of what we're trying to get to, is helping people learn. You've got if you don't have a method to figure out strategic projects, let's look at the ones you got. How are they going? Where are people at? And how effective is the capability that you have within your system right now? And the leaders want to be part of that, and they can learn within that to go, oh, wow, this is our current state.   0:43:47.2 Dave Williams: And so maybe we're going to agree to continue on with these projects. Maybe we're going to sunset some of them, but we're going to learn together about how do we get better at getting better, and how do we learn how to move projects forward and not to have them take two years. Let's try to get them down to four or six months, whether that's through scope or execution. But let's get better at getting better. And then as we're building... Developing the early activities of QOS, we'll eventually get to a point where we'll also be able to identify more strategic projects that are going to move us towards our aim or towards our purpose better. And this will help us as we're trying to build the capability to get there.   0:44:32.7 Cliff Norman: You know, Andrew, early on, when Dave went down this path, he said that we got to make sure that somebody's working on improvement. They're actually making changes. And Jane and I were working with a group, and the CEO said they've been meeting a long time. Could you down there and see what they're doing? Because nothing's happening. And we started looking through their agendas and they had everything well documented, and it was all about getting ready to get ready. And then they'd assign the dessert. Who's going to bring the dessert to the next meeting. And Jane looked at him and says this reminds me of something, Cliff. I said, what's that? Can I share my screen?   0:45:10.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Yep, go ahead.   0:45:13.7 Cliff Norman: I may send this to. You may know about it, but this is Dr. Deming's Diary of a Cat. And everyday...   0:45:20.6 Andrew Stotz: It hasn't come up yet. Hold on one second. Hopefully you've got permission now.   0:45:28.6 Cliff Norman: Let me go back and check here.   0:45:33.9 Andrew Stotz: Okay. It looks like it's coming up. One second.   0:45:38.4 Cliff Norman: It said every day is today. There's no theory days of the week. But today I got up some food in a bowl, it was great. Slept some too. Play with yarn, got some food in a bowl, had a good nap, slept, food, yarn, fun. Play with a shoelace. There's a big change right there. Went from yarn to a shoelace. Some people call that a job shop. And ate, slept, had a good day, slept, ate some food, yarn, so forth. So, and the team meeting looked just like that. But there's really no changes going on relative to improvement. So Dr. Deming would often share this into four days seminar to make sure that we weren't involved in the Diary of the Cat, but we were actually doing something useful in terms of making changes in the organization.   0:46:24.4 Andrew Stotz: That's a great one. And it helps us to understand that we could be busy all day long and not improve anything.   0:46:31.8 Cliff Norman: You know, or actually confuse that with improvement. In fact, we have an operational API that my team, we were embarrassed in our first, wait a second, our first improvement guide we wrote. And Dr. Adamir Pente, who's a professor at the university in Brazil, he sent us a note and he said, I know you guys and he said you're real big on operational definitions, but you've written this book on improvement and nowhere have you, you've defined what you mean by improvement. And then he put together a three part definition that there's a design and redesign system, there's system measures and the change is sustainable and lasting and so we put that definition in the second edition. But I was confronted at a university, I won't mention which one it was, but they had 30 Keystone projects for a advanced degree program for nursing and they were convinced they were doing improvement. And when I had them apply that definition, they came up out of the thirty. They only could find two projects out of the 30 where they were actually designing and redesigning the system, which, that's the first thing Dave said are we designing and redesigning and making real changes? And people think just showing up and going through motions and all the rest of it is improvement. No, it means...   0:48:07.8 Dave Williams: Looks like we've lost...   0:48:11.9 Andrew Stotz: We lost you at the last, the last statement you just made. People are going through all this stuff and thinking that they're improving, but they're...   0:48:22.8 Cliff Norman: Yeah, it's showing up and going through motions and you know, having the meetings and making sure we assign who's bringing dessert. But we're not really designing and changing the system. We're not getting measurable changes of improvement. In other words, we haven't tracked the data over time and we can't say that the changes that we've made are going to in fact be sustainable because we haven't known what we've done to the system to deserve a sustainable change.   0:48:51.4 Andrew Stotz: By the way, what a buzzword these days, sustainability, sustainable and all that. And you just think do people really think about how we're building something that's really lasting and sustainable?   0:49:04.8 Cliff Norman: Well, we have a checklist and actually Jane designed it for the first edition and it literally lays out what changes did you make, which processes did you change, what's going to change in the documentation, whose role statements have been changed in the organization because of this change. And once all that's answered on that checklist, which is in the book, then we can... But we're pretty certain that we've created the structure to make it easy for people to do the right thing and hard to do the wrong thing. But unless that structure's changed, probably not much going to happen.   0:49:40.8 Andrew Stotz: Just for the sake of time, because I think we want to wrap up in just a bit. But there's so many stuff, so much stuff that we've been through. But I know there's even more in this chapter, but how would you start to bring this together for the person who is a leader, himself or herself, and they're listening to this and they're thinking, okay, I'm ready to make a change and I'm prepared to devote the time and energy because I see the outcome and I'm open to help, whether that's through the book and other books, whether that's through a consultant, whatever that is. And I can even do a self assessment to some extent and know where our level is, which is very low. We don't know much about this type of stuff and that type of thing. We talked about the first focus on improvement. How do they pull this all together and start moving on it?   0:50:35.0 Dave Williams: There's three things that follow the self assessment. The first one is this focus on doing improvement work and setting up a portfolio of projects. And we just kind of talked about many of the different methods that go into that. And like I said, sometimes that when you say that out loud, leaders don't initially get excited by it because they think they have it. But actually it's a powerful opportunity for you to learn about what's currently going on in the organization and about where this opportunity is to reduce a lot of the noise and a lot of the friction that's getting in the way from you getting to results. The second thing that often happens in parallel is that the leaders need to build a learning system where they're going to be able to learn together both about these projects and what these projects are telling them about their organization, about their culture, about their people, and about their capacity to get results, but also that they can start to be learning about the science of improvement and profound knowledge and the activities of QOS that are going to be part of what they're going to work on developing over the course of the first year or two.   0:51:50.6 Dave Williams: And so that typically is, that's making that space and energy. It's a blend of book learning and application and practical. Trying and looking at things within the organization. It's a very applied approach, but it's an ongoing piece of their discovery. And I often argue that this is a real opportunity for leadership because they're going to be able to see their organization in a way that they haven't seen it before. And when we talk about profound knowledge, they're going to gain this profound understanding and expertise about what they're charged with and what they own and what they want to change in a way that they haven't been able to have it before. And so it's a hard work, but rewarding work. And then third is that typically where the, where we invite people to start is to focus in on the first activity, which is to develop or establish or develop their purpose. When this work was initially framed, not everybody was as... Not everybody had a mission, vision and value statement or a purpose statement that wasn't as common, but today people do. But the difference here, and you'll see this in the chapter on purpose, is that organizations that are pursuing quality as an organizational strategy are organizations that are systems that are built to constantly be trying to match a need that exists out in the world.   0:53:34.7 Dave Williams: And so often a learning for people is to step back and have to reflect on, well, what is the need in which we are creating these products and services to match? And if we're creating these things to match the need, how do we understand what's important, what are the quality characteristics that matter? And then how do we define what our mission is in that context? And being able to say, here's why we exist and the need that we're trying to serve, and in what way? And how do we set a vision for where we want to get into the future and what are the tenants or the practical values that exist in our organization, that we want to define how we work together in terms of building in that way. And so purpose is a big focus. It's that clarity of the need, the clarity of the quality characteristics that it takes to match that need. Understanding what are the products and services that we have. I know that sounds a little trivial, but you'd be stunned how hard it is, especially in service organizations, for people to actually describe what it is that they do, what are the actual services.   0:54:54.3 Dave Williams: They might have the name of the service or the class or the whatever, but to actually say this is what we deliver, and then really think about how do I use this as our organization's sort of North Star, our aim, so that everything else that follows is going to be about building a system that produces the results that we want and produces the services that match that need. So going forward, that's going to be very, very important in instructing the direction and instructing the way in which we're going to work as a community of professional people together.   0:55:30.8 Andrew Stotz: So after self assessment, we're talking about focusing on improvement. We're talking about building a learning system, and we're talking about revisiting or establishing or developing our purpose?   0:55:43.3 Cliff Norman: Yeah, I'll just add to what you just said there, Andrew. There's three basic things that have to happen when we start working. Number one is create the habit of improvement. Start improvement right away. Second thing, Dave just went through some detail on building a system of improvement. And Dave called that a learning system, which I thought was interesting because that's what Dr. Maccabee called it when he saw the five activities. Said, these are really methods for building a learning organization. And he said, I've never really seen them before, but this is what will come out of this, which is the essence of what you want. You want people continually learning, as Dr. Deming said, so they can continually improve. But the third thing that has to happen is we have to develop internal capability for them to carry this on, because we're not going to be around with them. We've never advertised. We don't advertise for clients, and we only get word of mouth. And we're only in there to do those three things, get them started on the habit of improvement, start building the system improvement so they can take it over.   0:56:43.4 Cliff Norman: And the third thing, start developing internal capability so they can continue it on into the future. So those three things basically take off on day one. And depending on the organization, I think this is critical. Dave, you asked this question the other day, if the context is such they've got things in front of them are so bad and so challenging that they just need to work on improvement. That's where we're going to be focused. But now if they can chew gum and walk at the same time, we're going to start building the system of improvement. And the first people I want on those initial teams, I want people on there who are going to be future improvement advisors. And more importantly, they perceive them as future leaders in the organization. I don't want a cadre of a whole bunch of improvement advisors. I want leaders in the future who actually understand the science of improvement, understand these methods, so when they go to the next department, the next organization, they can carry this on. So those three things start improving, start building a system of improvement. And the third thing, start developing internal capability. Those have got to take off almost simultaneously, depending on the situation, of course.   0:57:49.8 Andrew Stotz: Well, on that note, that's quite a discussion. I'm so happy that we can have this to go in a little bit deeper into the work that you guys have done. Again, the book is Quality As an Organizational Strategy. I got mine on Amazon and it sent it to me. But I wonder if you have any last words that you'd like to share about what we've talked about today in relation to getting started.   0:58:18.3 Cliff Norman: So, Dave, why don't you talk a little bit about. Because I think this is critical. We've just finished Andrew, the book that's going to be for the people who actually have to build this system. So Dave, just say a few things about that if you would, because you.   0:58:32.0 Dave Williams: About the field guide?   0:58:33.8 Cliff Norman: Yeah.   0:58:35.5 Dave Williams: Yeah. Well, so when this body of work was first created, there was the content of which you see in this book. And then there were also a lot of exercises and methods and applications and examples that existed as well. And it was a pretty thick binder. We have created two volumes. One, the book that you have, which is the description of the theory and the method and gives you some of the tools. And we're now in the process of pulling together what we call the QOS Field Guide, which is a guide that is supporting people that are going down this journey. It follows the same structure as the book, with the exception of the, the Getting started chapter that we had at the end is now at the beginning. And it walks through in great detail various ways in which you leaders and practitioners can approach getting started and building the capacity and then working through each of the activities. And it's equal in size, I mean, it's about the same thickness. But what we tried to do is to give people really pragmatic things to do.   1:00:01.1 Dave Williams: So there are exercises where people are simulating an idea or a concept or a particular piece. There are what we call QOS applications, which are where you're actually taking the theory or the method and applying it to your own organization. There are case studies and things that have been built that might allow you to practice. There's wonderful examples of just about everything from all, from people that we have worked with over the years across multiple different fields, from my background in emergency services and healthcare to education to manufacturing to elevator companies, all kinds of great stuff. And so that will be helpful as people are trying to think about pursuing this journey and working through that first phase of developing QOS and moving into using it. And we're in the stages of having it done to be available later this year.   1:01:08.6 Andrew Stotz: Exciting.   1:01:09.2 Cliff Norman: We've tried to make it useful, Andrew, that the people have to stay overnight with the management and actually get something done and build it without being run off. That everything is there for them to make sure that they make it successfully. That's the thing we kept in mind as we kept writing this second volume.   1:01:25.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I mean, I would say my experience with your guys's writing is that it's applicable.   1:01:34.1 Dave Williams: Well, Andrew, one thing I was going to add on you mentioned a lot of different examples. There are a lot of books in which people tell you a theory, but they don't tell you how to do it. Or they tell you about their own experience, but they don't actually convey the theory. The Quality as an Organizational Strategy book is laying out the theory and the methods of this approach built on the foundations of the science of improvement and profound knowledge and the Deming philosophy. The QOS Field Guide adds to that by giving you the methods and the tools and the things. It doesn't mean that that by itself you can't just go through like it's some kind of self guided tour and all of a sudden magic happens. There's a lot of work and learning and things that have to go into going through that process. But between these two volumes, a leadership team has the tools and methods that put them in position to be able to make this journey.   1:02:41.4 Andrew Stotz: Right. Well, let's wrap it up there. On behalf of everyone, I appreciate Dave and Cliff. All that you're doing and you're sharing with us and taking the time to do that. So from everyone at the Deming Institute, I want to thank you again for joining this and bringing your discussion on these topics. And for listeners, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. And you can find this book, Quality as an Organizational Strategy at Amazon and other booksellers. Are there even booksellers these days? I don't even know. They're mainly online these days. So this is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'm going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, which is "people are entitled to joy in work."  

...unless you're a "Big" club obviously.   The rules aren't 'different', just malleable apparently.Brent James and Bill Ireland drop into the ASFB studios all the way from Boone, North Carolina to talk Arsenal and Burnley.   I really cannot believe how nice all the Brentford people I meet are.  Honestly.  And I'm also amazed at the passion this little West London club inspires.   From meetups each week in the local pubs in so many cities, to backyard parties in towns like Boone, North Carolina.Along with Greville Waterman we have a really interesting discussion of the opportunities that our season-long injury crisis has provided.  Who has make a case for themselves, who might be moving on?  

From - Brent James Ain't nobody got time to read this shit but here we go anyway. Started playing music in front of people in high school. Sophomore year to be exact. Had a few beers and let it fly. Felt like magic. Got addicted to hands clapping and whistles. Been screwed with the songwriter bug ever since. Played in a couple bands after high school. Moved to NYC from my hometown of Frankenmuth Michigan when I was 23. Sang in a band. Toured many years in a van and trailer up and down the east coast. Got into another band. Did a record that Eddie Kramer mixed. It rocked. We broke up. Started doing a solo songwriter/rock and roll thing. Signed a publishing deal with Primary Wave/BMG/Skiddco. Did the record in Nashville with Skidd Mills and the Contraband boys. Had a single. Called it “Moment of Silence”. Went to #51 on Billboard. Kept playing shows the whole way. Toured/played shows with Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Daughtry, Cadillac Three, Candlebox, Uncle Kracker, Eric Church, Dierks Bentley, Huey Lewis and countless others. Moved to Cincinnati. met the Vintage Youth boys. Put out a few EP's and a full length. Finishing another now. Out soon in 2020. Never stopped playing shows. Thanks for getting this far. Until next time folks!   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From - Brent James Ain't nobody got time to read this shit but here we go anyway. Started playing music in front of people in high school. Sophomore year to be exact. Had a few beers and let it fly. Felt like magic. Got addicted to hands clapping and whistles. Been screwed with the songwriter bug ever since. Played in a couple bands after high school. Moved to NYC from my hometown of Frankenmuth Michigan when I was 23. Sang in a band. Toured many years in a van and trailer up and down the east coast. Got into another band. Did a record that Eddie Kramer mixed. It rocked. We broke up. Started doing a solo songwriter/rock and roll thing. Signed a publishing deal with Primary Wave/BMG/Skiddco. Did the record in Nashville with Skidd Mills and the Contraband boys. Had a single. Called it “Moment of Silence”. Went to #51 on Billboard. Kept playing shows the whole way. Toured/played shows with Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Daughtry, Cadillac Three, Candlebox, Uncle Kracker, Eric Church, Dierks Bentley, Huey Lewis and countless others. Moved to Cincinnati. met the Vintage Youth boys. Put out a few EP's and a full length. Finishing another now. Out soon in 2020. Never stopped playing shows. Thanks for getting this far. Until next time folks!   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The exciting conclusion to last week's epic sesh with talented director (and professional hunk) BRENT JAMES. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/goodsodpod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/goodsodpod/support

You may know Brent James as a director (or from his super sexy twitter presence), but did you know he once had a LINE of guys waiting to bl*w him?!? Follow Brent on IG or Twitter: @IloveBJames --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/goodsodpod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/goodsodpod/support

Listen to a special edition of Saturday Night Live with Brent James, for Saturday March 25.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Two roads diverged in a wood and Brent James took the one where he ends up as the Senior Product Manager at Tracksmith. Meaning, he was behind the design of the Eliot Runner, Tracksmith's first foray into footwear. He walks us through the development process of the shoe, how the production process works, and how he ended up at Tracksmith.  Check out the Tracksmith Eliot Runner: https://bit.ly/SHOP-TRACKSMITH-ELIOT

Listen to the full edition of Saturday Night Live with Brent James, for Saturday January 28. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the special New Years Eve edition of Saturday Night Live with Brent James, for Saturday December 31. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday December 17. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday December 10. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Groves is the Chief Medical officer of Banner Aetna, an independently licensed insurance company with a 50/50 ownership split between Banner and Aetna. "We have taken two elite athletes, put them together and said 'who is best at what, and let's leverage their respective strengths going forward.'"Banner Aetna has  tried to be strategic about what services that are currently handled by the care delivery system or insurer should reside with the other.  By pushing care management (among other things) to the delivery system, they have been able to eliminate confusion for patients and duplication of efforts.We also spoke about prior authorization. In the eyes of Dr. Groves, prior authorization is a way to check, "Is this really necessary based on medical literature?" now that the speed at which medical information doubles has gone from 50 years in the 1950's to weeks or months today. At Banner Aetna, half of all prior authorizations are now being done by Banner, which means that Banner doctors are speaking to their peers within the health system when discussing authorizations, and that those peers have access to the patient's record in real time, and can check for missing information. When it comes to attribution, Dr. Groves rejects the concept of "owning patients", and notes that Banner Aetna patients are often treated by physicians in the Banner Network that are aligned but not owned by Banner. Dr. Groves sees Banner Aetna's role as financing the services that a trusted physician feels his or her patients need, and helping to support the trusted relationship between a doctor and patient wherever it is occurring.As we moved to a conversation about innovation in healthcare, Dr. Groves noted that technology should always be in service of the relationship between a clinician and patient. Trust, he noted, is what has suffered as technology has created a wall between patients and physicians. Dr. Groves is interested in technology that can streamline back office functions, make it easier for patients to find the right doctor, and assist patients in following through on commitments they have made to their physician to improve their health. We also touched on physician incentives. It has been Dr. Groves' experience over 30 years of managing physicians that whenever you attach reward and punishment to a metric, it immediately starts being distorted. "Intrinsic motivation is dampened by external rewards." Dr. Groves cited research by Brent James, which indicates that the ease of accomplishing a task is what drives most physician behavior. Physicians are inherently competitive, and thus sharing data with physicians so they can see where they stand in relation to their colleagues is also important.  Financial reward is a distant number 3 on the list of what influences physicians. Putting excessive weight on specific metrics results in an overemphasis on a limited set of metrics instead of the relationship and an evaluation of the whole patient. We concluded by discussing the concept of healthcare versus "rescue medicine." While Dr. Groves concedes that if he was in a car accident there is no place he would rather be treated than the U.S., we have a long way to go to improve the wholistic health of Americans. Whether it's subsidies for high fructose corn syrup, political influence within  the FDA approval process, regulation around PBM's, or pharmaceutical advertising, there are many places where Dr. Groves feels national policy contributes to the problem.Dr. Groves can be found on Twitter and Linkedin.Please make sure to check out the Society for HealthCare Innovation's (SHCI) website.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday December 3. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday November 26. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bevo talks to the legendary Brent James of 4KQ music fame who now resides at 4BC Brisbane.

Ready for a radio-centered trip down memory lane? Join us as we share some air time with the legendary Brent James, music director at 4BC. Brent's love affair with radio started in the 60s, tuning into 4IP and 4BC. He takes us back to 1977, his first year on air at 4IP, a time he remembers as the pinnacle of the radio station and a time marked by significant technological shifts in the industry. Brent spins the tale of his journey from Wave FM to 4KQ, recounting his experience working on music compilations with Sony Music and the thrill of the chase as he tracked down rights holders for niche tracks. He also gives us a glimpse into the 50th Anniversary of 4KQ triple CD set, a compilation that sings the song of Brisbane's music scene. Hear about Brent's time at KQ and the talent that has found new broadcasting homes post-KQ. So, tune in for Brent's heart-warming story of a life dedicated to the radio waves.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday October 22. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Brent James joined Kevin Kissner and Brailey Jones LIVE from the Wild West Songwriter Festival in Deadwood, South Dakota. Brent talked about how he got into music and some of the artists he's performed with over the years. Brent also tells a story you won't hear anywhere else. Brent also talked about his band, "The Vintage Youth."

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday October 15. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday October 1st. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today we welcome Dr. Brent James back to the podcast for a spirited conversation about the values and failings of statistics in healthcare today. Brent James is a regular on the show, and I highly recommend checking out episode 3 and episode 30 to hear our previous conversations about healthcare and risk respectively. As always, Dr. James brings a very unique and storied pragmatism to the podcast. He has experience designing and implementing metrics that have been shown to actually improve patient outcomes and reduce costs. For those of you familiar with the topic, you’ll know that the vast majority of programs like this are either ineffective or actively counterproductive. Brent breaks these flaws and solutions down for us in an easily digestible and fascinating look into the internal workings of healthcare. It was a delight to hear his insights into healthcare’s continuing development, and his optimism is a breath of fresh air. Are you ready to connect?

Listen to the full Saturday Night Live show with Brent James, for Saturday October 1st. To hear all the best bits and greatest hits, tune in to Saturday Night Live on network stations across Queensland and New South Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, hosts Brent & James talk about why they created this podcast, and what you can expect. _________________________________ Over 1.5 million people live in strata housing in the Province of British Columbia. Let's face it, you'd rather watch reruns of the nightly news than read the Strata Property Act (And we can't blame you) Still, most people are at a loss when it comes to understanding such an important framework for how many of us live our lives in proximity with one another. Stratagize with Brent Anderson & James Milne features conversations with industry leaders and experts who share their knowledge to demystify an industry that impacts the lives of more than 1 out of 3 British Columbians. Whether you are a council member, owner, investor, or renter, if you're looking for content that will bring value to your strata and help you get to the next level… THIS is it! Listen to our latest episode, subscribe and rate us on iTunes.

Today I have the pleasure of welcoming Dr.Brent James back to the podcast. If you missed our first conversation, it’s our first episode ever, titled “Covid Conversations” on whichever podcasting service you prefer. It’s a fascinating journey into the life and perspectives of one of healthcares wisest leaders today. Since Brent was our first ever guest on The Groves Connection, it’s rather fitting that he’s our first guest featured on video on our YouTube channel. As before, Brent brings an inspired and unique perspective to an array of topics ranging from COVID-19 policy to the nature of the economic engine of healthcare. This is a great follow up to our first conversation, because it’s a satisfying deep-dive into many of the fascinating perspectives we touched on a few months back. There is a calm and informed clarity that Dr.James brings to all of his endeavors, allowing him to make thoughtful decisions and create remarkable models. It’s always a joy to hear him speak. If you haven’t already, subscribe to our YouTube channel to get the full experience: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9MaCSGtYhfW6ToPM7vfOdQ?sub_confirmation=1 Are you ready to connect?

Today I have the pleasure of welcoming Dr.Brent James back to the podcast. If you missed our first conversation, it’s our first episode ever, titled “Covid Conversations” on whichever podcasting service you prefer. It’s a fascinating journey into the life and perspectives of one of healthcares wisest leaders today. Since Brent was our first ever guest on The Groves Connection, it’s rather fitting that he’s our first guest featured on video on our YouTube channel. As before, Brent brings an inspired and unique perspective to an array of topics ranging from COVID-19 policy to the nature of the economic engine of healthcare. This is a great follow up to our first conversation, because it’s a satisfying deep-dive into many of the fascinating perspectives we touched on a few months back. There is a calm and informed clarity that Dr.James brings to all of his endeavors, allowing him to make thoughtful decisions and create remarkable models. It’s always a joy to hear him speak. If you haven’t already, subscribe to our YouTube channel to get the full experience: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9MaCSGtYhfW6ToPM7vfOdQ?sub_confirmation=1 Are you ready to connect?

Simon and Gavin pay tribute to a gone but not forgotten radio station in 3TT/TTFM. In a packed hour special guests, in order, were Geoff Cox, Ian Toull, Mike Hammond, Brent James, Jane Holmes, Darren James. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Simon Owens show s3e10 ep54  : Not Talking Football guest - Don Scott : Showbiz with Sandy Kaye  : Music hour with Gavin Wood (special 3TT / TTFM tribute show with guests Geoff Cox, Ian Toull, Mike Hammond, Brent James, Jane Holmes, Darren James, and Brad Haughton   : Troy Zantuck's TV Triva Hour (special guests Grant Hansen, host of the Marngrook Footy Show, and Simon Smith from the National Film and Sound Archive) Justin Coombes-Pearce's Top Five of Everything - Movies that define the 1980s : Compilation Conversations : Shane McInnes : Jamie Duncan's Glory Days : The Southern Cross Hotel. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we change it up a bit and interview a brand spanking new comedian. So new that he hasn't done a show yet. Brent James Driscoll is an extremely talented film maker who happens to be working with Andrew on his upcoming album "For the Wrong Reasons" (releasing Oct. 19th). Brent is also pretty dang hilarious and is taking Cory's virtual comedy class. So, this ep. is just one big commercial for our careers. Andrew: @andrewjrivers | Cory: @corymichaeliscomedy | Brent: @brentjamesdriscoll https://www.comedydynamics.com/catalog/phillip-kopczynski-live-at-spokane-comedy-club/ Cory's Other Podcast: Stripper Whisperer --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/cory-michaelis/support

Here we are. Welcome to my conversation with Dr. Brent James. Dr. James served Intermountain Healthcare Executive Director of the Institute for Healthcare Delivery Research for more than two decades. He is a member of the faculty at Stanford, and invited lecturer at Harvard and is internationally recognized for clinical quality improvement, patient safety and true culture change. He has trained thousands of clinical leaders in his methods and dozens of these graduates have developed like programs around the world. He has testified extensively before congress and when he speaks, leaders listen. We have a broad ranging conversation that includes novel insights on the Covid-19 pandemic that you don't want to miss. As a statistician he is a rigorous thinker, as a trained surgeon he is deeply knowledgeable about clinical research and care delivery, and as leader, he is an engaging speaker and storyteller. Listen in on The Groves Connection. Disclaimer: The Groves Connection is not liable for opinions of guests. Dr Groves is employed, and his full time employer is not liable for personal opinions and information shared by guests or Dr. Groves.

BRASS OWL - Hook, Line, And Sinker; Even Tiles - Ley Lines; Four Track All Stars - Maintain; Freak Mythology - Haunting Me; Fam Band - Weehee; Coastal Club - Shake You; BANGS - No Matter How Bad; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - Sorry; The American Scheme - Nachos; Danger Monkey - Y.F.U.E.; The Electric Indigo - Just Trying To Find A Way; Codachrome - Ember Friends; Camper Clark - Far From Over;

Even Tiles - Ley Lines; Cool Life - Waves; The Darkhearts - Bad Voltage Blues; In the Pines - So Cool; Lemon Sky - Near Here; Anonymous The Author - For Lack Of Better Terms; Abiyah - Crylike; BRASS OWL - Deuce Face; Danger Monkey - Y.F.U.E.; The Electric Indigo - Just Trying To Find A Way; Josh Ferreira - Road Song; Kevin McCoy Band - Blue Collar; The Midwestern Swing - Bedridden; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - Sorry;

In this episode we interview Dr. Brent James. Dr. James has been a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Healthcare Improvement. He is also a Senior Advisor at the Leavitt Group and a Senior Advisor at Health Catalyst, in Salt Lake City, Utah. He holds faculty appointments at the Stanford University School of Medicine and at several other universities. He was formerly the Vice President and Chief Quality Officer at Intermountain Healthcare.He has been honored with many awards for quality in health care delivery, including the John M. Eisenberg Patient Safety & Quality Award, The Joint Commission and the National Quality Forum, The C. Jackson Grayson Medal for Distinguished Quality Pioneer, The Joint Commission Earnest A. Codman Award, The National Committee for Quality Assurance Quality Award, and the American College of Medical Quality Founders' Award.For 8 out of its first 9 years, Dr. James was named among Modern Physician's "50 Most Influential Physician Executives in Healthcare." In Modern Healthcare, he was named among the "100 Most Powerful People in Healthcare" and "25 Top Clinical Informaticists." In this episode, we discuss his leadership background, value based medicine, as well as his outlook on the future of medicine. We hope you enjoy this episode of Leading the Rounds. If you want to learn more about us or our work, visit www.leadingtherounds.com

by Heart of the City See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

500 Miles to Memphis - "Hold On Tight"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Feral Friends - "Doctor, Doctor"; Green Light Morning - "Let's Get Happy"; Even Tiles - "Ley Lines"; Codachrome - "Ember Friends"; Acarya - "Happy Turtle"; FOUNDING FATHERS - "Vhs"; Hello Lady - "Bombshell"; Catlea - "Breathe Away"; Coastal Club - "Shake You"; Modern Aquatic - "Laurel Leaves"; Moonbeau - "Are We In Love Yet"; Hynterlands - "Survive"

Brent James is the frontman behind "Brent James and the Vintage Youth." His unique style of rock and roll provides listeners with heart and soul with each song. Some of the BeDFRNT favorites include "Maybe", "Waiting So Long", "Brother", and "Come on Baby." In this interview, Brad and Brent talk through his early years as a musician and bring it to present day. For more Brent James and information on upcoming shows visit www.brentjamesmusic.com

We're excited to release the first of four parts to The Steel City Stories II. Alex Hoffer hosts this event that was held at Elder Brewing Company's first anniversary party in November of 2018. It was a great night of some of Joliet's favorite songwriters taking turns playing they're own tunes. They did four rounds just as they did in the first Steel City Stories. There was a mix of musicians that had done the first one along with new comers to the event. They were Brian Motyll, John Condron, Allison Flood, Chris Flood, Jrossgreen, Pete Jive, Alex Hoffer, and Eric Totherow in that order. Brent James of the Righteous Hillbillies made an appearance, too towards the end of the night. He'd been hangin out in the crowd when somebody had asked him to jump on up. We'll fill ya in on it when we release that round. We love listening to these folks play. It's cool to hear them play without bands, or to hear songs evolve over time. We hope you'll feel the same. Your Hosts, David Francis & Tom Maslowski https://www.facebook.com/whatsgoindownindowntownjtown/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/318800782036303/ https://www.facebook.com/thirdcitysound/ https://www.facebook.com/audiophilsrecords/ https://www.facebook.com/RialtoSquareTheatre/ https://www.facebook.com/Chicago-Street-Pub-Music-Food-Beer-205506299468892/ https://www.facebook.com/elderbrewingco/ https://www.facebook.com/theforgelive/ https://www.facebook.com/JolietMuseum/ https://www.facebook.com/blbicentennialpark/ https://www.facebook.com/drunkendonut/?ref=br_rs https://www.facebook.com/riverhorsemusic/ https://www.facebook.com/johncondronandtheogo/ https://www.facebook.com/Flood-Management-Group-168960716448208/ https://www.facebook.com/alexhoffermusic https://www.facebook.com/eric.totherow.9 https://www.facebook.com/petejivemusic/ https://chadpayne13.bandcamp.com/releases

Jess Lamb - "Feel It"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Frontier Folk Nebraska - "Ghost On The Tap"; St. Mary, St. Michael - "Blue 52"; See You In The Funnies - "All Grown Up"; Dead Man String Band - "Joe's Not Here"; Chris From Space - "I'm Fading Away"; The Grove - "Fall Back"; Rosewood Coast - "Junebug"; FOUNDING FATHERS - "Vhs"; Freak Mythology - "House Arrest"; Lauren Eylise - "Middle Of Nowhere"; Roosevelt - "Roads Home"; hy ridge hay - "Hollywood Conformity"

Trauma Illinois - "Buried"; Ma Crow & Co. - "Workin' Man"; Calumet - "Waited A Long Time"; Lauren Eylise - "Middle Of Nowhere"; In the Pines - "So Cool"; Frontier Folk Nebraska - "Ghost On The Tap"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Zapruder Point - "Stars + Specks"; Coastal Club - "Shake You"; Even Tiles - "Ley Lines"; Green Light Morning - "Let's Get Happy"; Softstone Hearts - "Cabin In The Woods"; Charlie Millikin - "Forever And Always"; Matt Waters - "Wild"; Walk The Moon - "Kamikazi"

Zebras in Public - "John Doe"; Ohio Knife - "Bleed You"; Scarlet Street - "Patron Saint Of Bad Ideas"; Rosewood Coast - "Junebug"; Infinity Spree - "Hard To Stay"; Freak Mythology - "Surge"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; National Barks - "Beneath You"; Come Here Watson - "I Don't Get It"; Motel Faces - "Forecast"; Wussy - "Beautiful"; FOUNDING FATHERS - "Welcome Home"; PASSEPORT - "Blood"

Daniel In Stereo - "Lipstain"; Tonefarmer - "Tonight's Bounty"; Smoke Parade - "Solid Ground"; Night Owl - "Reincarnation"; Arlo Mckinley & The Lonesome Sound - "Waiting For Wild Horses"; See You In The Funnies - "Buck Fifty"; Into the Skies - "For Closure"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; In the Pines - "So Cool"; Motel Faces - "Better Off"; The Tigerlilies - "Lovers Du"; Zebras in Public - "Sugarcane"; Current Events - "By Design"; Freak Mythology - "Haunting Me"; Come Here Watson - "I Don't Get It"; The Vims - "Ms7"

Buffalo Killers - "Need A Changin'"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Calumet - "Waited A Long Time"; ROOM FOR ZERO - "Death Of Cold"; Dead Man String Band - "Joe's Not Here"; The Last Troubadour - "Rain On My Parade"; Freak Mythology - "Haunting Me"; Jess Lamb - "Feel It"; Coastal Club - "Shake You"; Eric Nally - "Ruby"; Charlie Millikin - "Forever And Always"; Trauma Illinois - "Buried"; The Borderline Something - "Black Dress Sabotage"; Even Tiles - "Ley Lines"

Lauren Eylise - "Middle Of Nowhere"; Calumet - "Barn Burner"; ROOM FOR ZERO - "My Heart's A Drum"; Freak Mythology - "House Arrest"; 500 Miles to Memphis - "Broken, Busted, Bloody"; The Smoke Parade - "Safety First"; See You In The Funnies - "All Grown Up"; The Borderline Something - "Black Dress Sabotage"; Current Events - "At The Well"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Ma Crow & Co. - "Workin' Man"; MXK - "Confession"; Armour Glamour - "Sugies Dreamin"; Coastal Club - "Shake You"

BRENT JAMES DRISCOLL engages The Pop Oracle in this session with TOBIAS THE OWL at Clatter & Din in Seattle, Washington on March 11. 2018. Host: ANDRAS JONES Musical Guest: TOBIAS THE OWL Guest: BRENT JAMES DRISCOLL R8B Theme performed by TOBIAS THE OWL Engineered by Brian Richard-Sloss at Clatter and Din in Seattle Mixed by Tony Householder Digital Media - Carlo Velasquez Produced and Edited by Andras Jones LINKS: RADIO8BLOG - http://www.radio8ball.com/2018/03/28/brent-james-driscoll-tobias-the-owl/ TOBIAS THE OWL - https://www.tobiastheowl.com/ BRENT JAMES DRISCOLL - https://www.instagram.com/brentyjames/ FREMONT ABBEY - http://www.fremontabbey.org/ R8B APP - http://www.radio8ball.com/the-r8b-app/ R8B Website - http://www.radio8ball.com/ RADIO8BALL PATREON - https://www.patreon.com/radio8ball RADIO8BALL FACEBOOK - https://www.facebook.com/radio8ball/ RADIO8BALL TWITTER - @radio8ball RADIO8BALL INSTAGRAM - @theradio8ballshow R8B APP - http://www.radio8ball.com/the-r8b-app/ Support the show. Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/radio8ball See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Afghan Whigs - "66"; Room For Zero - "My Heart's A Drum"; Buffalo Killers - "Need A Changin'"; Break Up Lines - "Nobody's Home"; Current Events - "By Design"; Tooth Lures A Fang - "Experts"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; 500 Miles To Memphis - "Broken, Busted, Bloody"; Red Hot Rebellion - "Battle Royale With Cheese"; Actual Villains - "Cave In"; The Tigerlilies - "Lovers Du"; Night Owl - "Wander"; Kyla Mainous - "Here, Here And Here"; The Yugos - "I Want U 2 Love U"

Telehope - "Remedy"; Passeport - "Blood"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; New Moons - "Morning Light"; Season Ten - "The Sun"; Mad Anthony - "Wookie Slows It Down"; Calumet - "Waited A Long Time"; 500 Miles To Memphis - "Broken, Busted, Bloody"; Young Heirlooms - "Bury Me"; Room For Zero - "My Heart's A Drum"; The Tigerlilies - "Lovers Du"; New Sincerity Works - "Just Like Vapor"; See You In The Funnies - "All Grown Up"; Leggy - "Kick The Habit"

  Do not be fooled. This is episode 13: Brent James. It is a Righteous number of Righteous men. And he after all is in The Righteous Hillbillies who will be the main act at the first installment of Local Music Mondays at the Rialto Sqaure Theater this coming Monday May 8th. There's info all over our Fcaebook page, and the pages of The Hillbillies and Chicago Street Pub. Episode 12: Pat Lyons will still be released on time next week. This is as close as any of us will get to time traveling so enjoy it....    Our Show is recorded at Third City Sound on the third floor above Chicago Street Pub. One of the oldest and best hubs for original music. Those of us regulars of The Chi'er go there in search of all things genuine made for people who care about building things that last. Making thing to inspire the change we all really need.   In this episode, Brent gives us the story od his early days leading up to his roll in making this scene start to take shape over twn years ago. He threw down two great performances, and talkes our ears off, even through our technical difficulties. go ahead laugh it up...... Your Hosts,  David Francis and Tom Maslowski https://www.facebook.com/Chicago-Street-Pub-Music-Food-Beer-205506299468892/ https://www.facebook.com/thirdcitysound/ https://www.facebook.com/RighteousHillbillies/ https://www.facebook.com/events/844215025725930/    

Vaudeville Freud - "Wave Your Hands"; Wussy - "Teenage Wasteland"; Pop Empire - "Calamity Jane"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Strangetunge - "Betty Beat The Devil"; Tooth Lures A Fang - "Experts"; Nuge - "Here Comes The Rain"; Blue Amber Iris - "Head In The Clouds"; Royal Holland - "Demimonde"; Suck The Honey - "Different Person"; The Yugos - "Dream Away"; Vacation - "Candy Waves"; Room For Zero - "My Heart's A Drum"; J. Dorsey Band - "Wicked Soul"

Interview with Lara Goitein, MD, MDT and Brent James, MD, authors of Standardized Best Practices and Individual Craft-Based Medicine: A Conversation About Quality

Over The Rhine - "Trouble"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Honeyspiders - "New Blooms"; Wussy - "Chicken"; Royal Holland - "Polaroid Blues"; See You In The Funnies - "Floozie"; Sundae Drives - "Very Bad People"; Sweet Ray Laurel - "Beckon me"; Kumasi - "Serious Ghosts"; The Magic Lightnin' Boys - "Couples Skate"; Here Come Here - "Lionhead"; Motherfolk - "I Know"; Mint Leopard - "Progress In The Evenin'"; Mr Brown's Mysterious Sounds - "Devil's Lapdance"

Motherfolk - "I Know"; Founding Fathers - "Stop Drop and Roll"; The Night Divided - "You Spreader of Civilization"; New Strange - "Fractures"; Kevin and the Octaves - "We're Gonna Make It"; Buffalo Killers - "Grow your own"; Ohio Knife - "Wish I Knew"; Pop Goes The Evil - "Kisses"; Modern Aquatic - "Laurel Leaves"; Brent James & The Vintage Youth - "Sorry"; Coconut Milk - "North Dakota"; Pop Empire - "Hail Holy Light"; Whiskey Shambles - "In my Soul under my skin"; 500 Miles To Memphis - "Bethel, OH"

Download Podcast | Subscribe First up this week is an interview with Brent James from Trucoin. The company is rolling out services that will allow people to quickly buy Bitcoins with a credit or debit card. Mr. James will explain how it all works and why it's extremely beneficial to the community. Then later in ...The post YMB Podcast E44: Trucoin, Trading Bots, and Art appeared first on You, Me, and BTC. Keep up on Twitter and Facebook!

Download Podcast | Subscribe First up this week is an interview with Brent James from Trucoin. The company is rolling out services that will allow people to quickly buy Bitcoins with a credit or debit card. Mr. James will explain how it all works and why it’s extremely beneficial to the community. Then later in ...The post YMB Podcast E44: Trucoin, Trading Bots, and Art appeared first on You, Me, and BTC. Keep up on Twitter and Facebook!

Rik talks with Brent James and The Contraband.

Join new host Bob Wilcox who talks with Brent James about his film on the history and culture of the "Intentional Community."

Join new host Bob Wilcox who talks with Brent James about his film on the history and culture of the "Intentional Community."