Podcast appearances and mentions of jon wan

Welcome to our Feed Swap Friday. Today we're excited to share an episode from our friends at I'm Feeling Queer Today! In this episode, Alex and Lily unpack the roles that labels play within queer identities and how they serve (or don't serve) queer young people as they explore who they are, who they love, and who they hope to become. Listen to I'm Feeling Queer Today wherever you get your podcasts!   Contents & Content Warnings…   00:00 - Introduction from Eric Eubank/What's your hope for this podcast? 1:35 - Episode intro with Lily & Alex, All About Labels 3:21 - Labels with Eric Eubank & Wallace 10:15-10:21 - Mentions of homophobia and transphobia  11:20 - Benny  13:55 - Coming out between generations/commentary  14:52 - Queer Crushes with Zorian 15:40-15:56 - Instances of homophobia (invalidation) 18:08 - My Queer Identity Journey: Frankie 21:55 - Coming up next  22:12 - Show notes & resources 22:52 - Credits  FPP Information… To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and bandcamp @thefutureperfectproject   For more information on Future Perfect Records, one of The Future Perfect Project's programs, check out our website or bandcamp, Stream Not What You Pictured or Divinity on your favorite music streaming platform, or find them @futureperfectrecords on Instagram. Crisis Resources…  If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386. Mentions…  Interested in Mady G. and Jules Zuckerberg's A Quick & Easy Guide to Queer & Trans Identities? Head to your favorite bookseller or local library, or support its creators on Instagram @madygcomics and @juleszuckerberg Credits… I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.   Episode two of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Alex Masse, Lily Mueller, Frankie Gunn, and Wallace, and features Benny, Eric Eubank, & Zorian Edwards. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil.    The I'm Feeling Queer Today theme was composed and performed by Alex Masse & produced by Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Additional music was composed by Alex Masse, Frankie Gunn, and Epidemic Sound.  Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky. For more information and episode transcript, visit the show page at http://www.thefutureperfectproject.org/podcast.   TikTok/Insta: @thefutureperfectproject  

Hosts Frankie and Zorian share about their trans experience, exploring the spectrum of feelings from shame and resistance to beauty and liberation all in the effort to be their full, true selves.Contents & Content Warnings…Please expect to hear “queer” used as an identity term throughout this episode & series. 00:00 - Introduction from Zorian - What makes you feel most like yourself?1:16 - Meet Zorian & Frankie 2:02 - Let's talk HRT - Hormone Replacement Therapy7:10 - Ari & Sam In this segment, please expect to hear mentions & discussions of…Shame & internalized biasDesire, sex & sexuality TransphobiaWhite supremacy & racism17:15 - Zorian's Transition Journey 21:05- 22:20 - Instances of homophobic/transphobic rhetoric 23:30 - What is Gender Dysphoria? What about Gender Euphoria?26:10 - Frankie's Transition Journey 28:23 - Masculinities & Toxic MasculinityBeginning at 30:40, please expect to hear mentions & discussions of…Death & griefHomelessness & being forced out of one's homeParental estrangement Homophobia & Transphobia38:52 - Queer Youth Animated: Kiwi40:25 - 40:30 - Instances of hate speech40:30 - 40:47 - Mention of familial conflict, being forced out of one's home43:28 - Outro 43:26 - Coming up next44:07 - Show notes & resources44:54 - CreditsFPP Information…To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and bandcamp @thefutureperfectprojectCrisis Resources… If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386.Mentions… “The role of the artist is to make the revolution irresistible.” - Toni Cade BambaraThis quotation is most commonly attributed to a compilation of conversations with Toni Cade Bambara, appropriately titled “Conversations with Toni Cade Bambara,” edited by Thabiti Lewis. Find more information on this author, documentarian, activist, teacher, and speaker is available online and through libraries & other places of education throughout the world. Keep an eye (and ear) out for season two of I'm Feeling Queer Today, coming September 2024, and look forward to some bonus content in the interim!View Kiwi's animatied story at https://www.youtube.com/@TheFuturePerfectProjectCredits…I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.Episode six of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Frankie Gunn, Zorian Edwards, and Ari, and features Sam and Kiwi. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil. Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky.Visit the show website at thefutureperfectproject.org/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosts Eric and Lily explore the lack of representation of queer characters in mainstream media, and how the LGBTQ+ community has had to rely on creating our own media to accurately tell our diverse array of stories.Contents & Content Warnings…Please expect to hear “queer” used as an identity term throughout this episode & series. 00:00 - Frankie & Ari: What Was Your Favorite Queer-Coded TV Character? 2:20 - Introduction with Eric & Lily: What do we mean when we say “Queer-Coded?”4:13 - Zines! With Alex & Claire17:18 - 1-Minute Trivia: Queer Love Edition, with Trudy, Sonyamia & Sam30:15 - Hesperus30:30-30:55 - Discussions of homophobia 35:16 - Outro 35:35 - Coming up next35:49 - Show notes & resources36:27 - CreditsFPP Information…To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and bandcamp @thefutureperfectprojectCrisis Resources… If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386.Mentions… The Watermelon Woman, a Cheryl Dunye film, is available to stream through multiple platforms, and may be free to watch through universities or your local library. Looking for more queer zine content? Visit the Queer Zine Archive Project at gittings.qzap.org, the Digital Transgender Archive at digitaltransgenderarchive.net or Instagram @digitaltransarc, and the Queer Zine Library at queerzinelibrary.com or on Instagram @queerzinelibrary - also consider checking out your local library, local queer bookstores, community & LGBTQ+ centers, and even museums & physical archives.Interested in the movie & musical that inspired Hesperus? You can stream the movie adaptation of The Prom on Netflix, and find the musical & movie soundtracks on your favorite movie streaming platforms. Also available is a book of the same name, written by Saundra Mitchell with Bob Martin, Chad Beguelin, and Matthew Skylar. More information on poet Andrea Gibson & their poem, First Love, is available on their website, andreagibson.org or on Instagram @andreagibson - you can also find them performing many of their poems on YouTube, or keep up with their day to day writings at andreagibson.substack.comCredits…I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.Episode four of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Eric Eubank, Lily Mueller, Trudy Poux, and Alex Masse, and features Claire Florence, Sonyamia Blanco, Samuel Smalls Jr., and Hesperus. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil. The I'm Feeling Queer Today theme was composed and performed by Alex Masse & produced by Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Additional music was composed by Alex Masse, Frankie Gunn, and Epidemic Sound. Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, 18-year-old Sam and 16-year-old Wallace explore the topic of intersectionality within the spectrum of the LGBTQ+ community, and their own perspectives as Black and mixed-race teenagers, respectively.Contents & Content Warnings…Please expect to hear “queer” used as an identity term throughout this episode & series. 00:00 - Introduction from Samuel Smalls Jr./What's your hope for this podcast?1:36 - Episode intro with Wallace & Samuel Smalls Jr. 2:57 - Samuel Smalls Jr. & Z Cosby -Please expect to hear discussions of trans misogynoir throughout this segment. 10:15-11:00 - Mentions of grooming (stereotype,) book bans & school district restrictions which limit teachings on slavery & other topics. 16:13 - Journaling with Trudy Poux & Samuel Smalls Jr. 21:46 - AdamPlease expect to hear discussions of religion (Christianity) and related homophobia throughout this segment. 22:15-22:22 - Mention of abuse 25:05 - Coming up next 25:17 - Show notes & resources26:09 - Credits FPP Information…To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and bandcamp @thefutureperfectprojectFor more information on Future Perfect Records, one of The Future Perfect Project's programs, check out our website or bandcamp, Stream Not What You Pictured or Divinity on your favorite music streaming platform, or find them @futureperfectrecords on Instagram.Crisis Resources… If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386.Mentions… Interested in following Z or their band, Gooseflesh? Check Z out on Instagram @zjcosby and look for their band @gooseflesh1312Credits…I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.Episode three of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Samuel Smalls Jr. and Wallace, and features Z Cosby, Trudy Poux, and Adam. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil. The I'm Feeling Queer Today theme was composed and performed by Alex Masse & produced by Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Additional music was composed by Alex Masse, Frankie Gunn, and Epidemic Sound. Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Alex and Lily unpack the roles that labels play within queer identities and how they serve (or don't serve) queer young people as they explore who they are, who they love, and who they hope to become.Contents & Content Warnings…00:00 - Introduction from Eric Eubank/What's your hope for this podcast?1:35 - Episode intro with Lily & Alex, All About Labels3:21 - Labels with Eric Eubank & Wallace10:15-10:21 - Mentions of homophobia and transphobia 11:20 - Benny 13:55 - Coming out between generations/commentary 14:52 - Queer Crushes with Zorian15:40-15:56 - Instances of homophobia (invalidation)18:08 - My Queer Identity Journey: Frankie21:55 - Coming up next 22:12 - Show notes & resources22:52 - Credits FPP Information…To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and bandcamp @thefutureperfectprojectFor more information on Future Perfect Records, one of The Future Perfect Project's programs, check out our website or bandcamp, Stream Not What You Pictured or Divinity on your favorite music streaming platform, or find them @futureperfectrecords on Instagram.Crisis Resources… If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386.Mentions… Interested in Mady G. and Jules Zuckerberg's A Quick & Easy Guide to Queer & Trans Identities? Head to your favorite bookseller or local library, or support its creators on Instagram @madygcomics and @juleszuckerbergCredits…I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.Episode two of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Alex Masse, Lily Mueller, Frankie Gunn, and Wallace, and features Benny, Eric Eubank, & Zorian Edwards. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil. The I'm Feeling Queer Today theme was composed and performed by Alex Masse & produced by Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Additional music was composed by Alex Masse, Frankie Gunn, and Epidemic Sound. Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky.For more information and episode transcript, visit the show page at http://www.thefutureperfectproject.org/podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, Alex discovers the labels that work best in describing who they are. Frankie tells the story of their first queer crush, Claire interviews queer elders at New York City Pride 2023, and members of the podcast production team tell us what pride means to them.Contents & Content Warnings…Please expect to hear “queer” used as an identity term throughout this episode & series. 00:00 - Introduction from Frankie/What's your hope for this podcast?1:07 - Meet Alex Masse & Lily Mueller; Episode Intro; what do we mean when we say “Queer?”2:03 - Mention of the history of the word “queer” as a slur2:57-3:23 - Mentions of attacks on LGBTQIA+ rights4:10 - My Queer Identity Journey: Alex5:00-5:14 - Mention of homophobic “predator” trope 6:40-6:55 Use of the word “d*ke” as an identity term.7:45 - Let's talk about the word D*ke7:58- 9:50 - discussions of lesbophobic language, including the word “d*ke,” and usage of the word “d*ke” as a reclaimed identity term. 10:37 - Queer Crushes: Frankie12:25-12:50 Mention of homophobic “predator” trope 14:06 - My First Pride/NYC Pride 2023: Claire 16:10-16:25 - Discussions on the history of “queer” and other historically pejorative terms16:50-17:05 - Brief overview of the Stonewall Riots 17:35-18:20 - Overview of the AIDS crisis20:45-20:50 - Use of the word “d*ke” as an identity term 21:53-22:00 - Mention of Catholicism 22:30 - What Pride Means to Me25:00 - Outro 25:30 - Coming up next25:48 - Show notes & resources26:30 - CreditsFPP Information…To learn more about The Future Perfect Project and all of our free arts programming for LGBTQIA+ youth, visit thefutureperfectproject.org or find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and Bandcamp @thefutureperfectprojectCrisis Resources… If you or a young person you know between the ages of 13-24 is currently in crisis, check out thetrevorproject.org for LGBTQIA+-specific support through text and chat, or call 1-866-488-7386.Mentions… Alison Bechdel's Dykes to Watch Out For? Head to dykestowatchoutfor.comCredits…I'm Feeling Queer Today is produced by The Future Perfect Project with support from Radio Kingston, WKNY AM1490, FM1079, Kingston, NY.Episode one of I'm Feeling Queer Today was produced by Claire Florence, Frankie Gunn, Alex Masse, Lily Mueller, and Wallace, and features Sonyamia Blanco, Ariella Brodie-Weisberg, Jax Gervasio, Ovo Oshobe, and Trudy Poux. Special thanks to executive producers and mentors, Julie Novak and Celeste Lecesne, as well as Future Perfect Project team members Ryan Amador, Jon Wan, and Aliya Jamil. The I'm Feeling Queer Today theme was composed and performed by Alex Masse & produced by Emma Jayne Seslowsky. Additional music was composed by Alex Masse, Frankie Gunn, and Epidemic Sound. Mixing & mastering for I'm Feeling Queer Today by Julie Novak, with assistance from Emma Jayne Seslowsky.Special thanks to Lindsay Feldherr, who co-wrote the segment about New York City Pride 2023.For more information and transcripts, visit the show page at http://www.thefutureperfectproject.org/podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

All-star guest Kiko Soirée (@kikosoiree) joins David to talk about the great satirist of the 21st century, Paris Hilton! The two break down Hilton's Aquarian elements through the lens of The Simple Life, I am Paris, Cooking with Paris and more. A great episode for understanding the August 22 double full moon in Aquarius and the dualities of astrology. David also talks American Crime Story: Impeachment, the Funny Girl revival, Grace Jones, The White Lotus, The Suicide Squad and beyond. You can follow David on Instagram @david_odyssey and @adavidodyssey on Twitter. To book a tarot/astrology reading, visit davidodyssey.com or email adavidodyssey@gmail.com. The Luminaries is made with love in New York City: music by Henry Koperski, and creative director Greg Kozatek. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

SEASON FINALE. Beloved previous guests Mo Fry Pasic, Jes Tom, Pat Reilly and Tommy O'Malley share their reflections on this transformative moment in time. How does our work change? Our bodies? Our culture? Be sure to catch up on Part I, which featured Derek Smith, Spike Einbinder, Jay Jurden and Jon Wan (a.k.a. Kiko Soiree). The Luminaries will soon return, bigger and better than ever. Thank you for listening. You can follow David @goldberghawn and at davidgoldberg.online. See you on the other side! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the special two-part season finale, David welcomes eight previous podcast guests to reflect on this transformative moment in time. Who do you want to be when the world begins again? What do you want to leave behind? What has to change? For part I, former Luminaries Jon Wan (Kiko Soirée), Spike Einbinder, Jay Jurden and Derek Smith share their thoughts. And be sure to return for the 50th episode finale, featuring Mo Fry Pasic, Tommy O'Malley, Pat Reilly and Jes Tom. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

SEASON 2: EPISODE 8 Film critic Melissa Anderson talks about the correlation between smoldering internal rage and a lighthearted use of exclamation marks. ABOUT THE GUEST Melissa Anderson is the film editor of 4Columns and a regular contributor to Artforum and Bookforum. ABOUT THE HOST Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as “tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny.” His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he’s a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil’s first video project. “One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate’s cat and found myself saying the words ‘She’s a talker.’ I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying ‘She’s a talker.’” A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund.  Producer: Devon Guinn  Creative Consultants: Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue  Mixer: Andrew Litton  Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver  Theme Song: Jeff Hiller  Website: Itai Almor Media: Justine Lee Interns: Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho, Rachel Wang Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Nick Rymer, Sue Simon, Maddy Sinnock, Jonathan Taylor TRANSCRIPTION NEIL GOLDBERG.: Hello, I'm Neil Goldberg, and this is SHE'S A TALKER, coming to you today from the Lower East Side. Today's guest is film critic Melissa Anderson, but first I'm going to find someone here on the street to talk to.  We're doing a podcast, and we just need people to know... Oh, okay. Sorry to bother you. Would you have a minute for a podcast, just to read this card into a microphone?  REMY: Why not? NEIL: Thank you. I love the "why not?" REMY: What podcast? NEIL: It's called SHE'S A TALKER. It's built off a collection of thousands of these index cards doing interviews with people. Uh, but now we're playing around with having people on the street read them. Would you mind?  REMY: Okay. When people sing out loud to themselves with headphones, wanting to be heard.  NEIL: It's often a cutesy thing. You know, someone's on the subway. They got their headphones in. They're singing. They're pretending like they don't know they can be heard, but they can be heard. Do you know what I'm talking about there?  REMY: I have absolutely done that. It was another version of me years ago, if that helps.  NEIL: Tell me about that version of you.  REMY: A version that was, really wanted to be heard, man. I mean, everyone really wants to be heard, but especially like I had just moved to New York. Like when you find those little secret ways where you don't even admit to yourself that you are reaching out. It's, it's a little bit of a lifeline.  NEIL: Can I ask what your name is?  REMY: Remy.  NEIL: Remy. Would you do one more card or no? This, okay, great. Hang on. I'm going to find another one.  REMY: I feel a type of violence when someone marks a file as final.  NEIL: Do you know that experience? Like do you ever work with electronic files and like?  REMY: Yes. Completely. Yeah.  NEIL: Are you someone who is, uh, who marks things as final?  REMY: I try not to because then you end up with another final and final two and final seven, and yeah, it is a lot. Um, so I try and keep it organized, but never final. Nothing's final. NEIL: I'm so happy to have as my guest, film critic Melissa Anderson. Melissa is the Film Editor for the unique art criticism site 4Columns, and frequently contributes to Book Forum and Art Forum, and before that was the Senior Film Critic for The Village Voice of blessed memory. Non-professionally, Melissa has a longstanding practice of emailing me abuses she encounters of the word 'journey', which she describes as the COVID-19 of nouns. We spoke just after the new year at a recording studio at The New School near Union Square in New York City.   NEIL: Melissa Anderson.  MELISSA ANDERSON: Yes. Neil Goldberg. NEIL: Welcome to SHE'S A TALKER. I'm so happy to have you here. This is your first podcast.  MELISSA: Yeah.  NEIL: Wow. How does it feel?  MELISSA: I feel that I'm in the best of hands. I'm with a creative conversationalist of the highest order. And I'm, I'm ready to talk.  NEIL: Um, what is the elevator pitch for what you do?  MELISSA: Oh, it's very simple. I'm, I'm a film critic. I'm the world's preeminent lesbian film critic. There's my elevator pitch. Elevator to the stars.  NEIL: I love the lack of ambiguity about that.  MELISSA: I mean, of course. I'm a film critic. That would be my elevator pitch. I don't, I don't want to get too grandiose so early on in our conversation. NEIL: Well, hopefully there'll be time later. You know, I'm, I'm thinking of criticism as its own literary form. So I would say, Melissa Anderson is truly a critic of film whose criticism rises and surpasses the attributes that we apply to the other literary arts. Or it rises to the level of literature. Would you agree with that? Is that an intention?  MELISSA: You are putting a woman in a very precarious position. I mean, if I agree with you, "Oh yes. All those wonderful things you said, oh of course, I am the best." But I also don't want to go into some display of false modesty.  I will just say that, yes, I practice the dark art of film criticism. I've done it for several years now. I always feel that my writing could be so much better. That's always the goal: to not just coast, to really play with language, have some ideas, say outrageous things. Yes. And, and not just rely on plot synopsis, because that is, is really the, the dullest form of cultural criticism, especially film criticism. I think it's inevitable. You have to give the reader just some sense of what happens in terms of, you know, action or just the, the, the barest plot synopsis. And from there you can branch out and talk about the really interesting things, like Brad Pitt's face or what French actress I may have a very big crush on. You know?  NEIL: Do you get a lot of followup? Like what kind of followup does one get? MELISSA: Yes. I do get the follow up question quite a lot, which is what kinds of films do you write about? In fact, this came up just the other day. I was meeting somebody for the first time, and I said, you know, I really try to cover anything. And then the person I was talking to said, Oh, would you review the new Star Wars movie? And that's when I realized, actually, I do not cover the waterfront because I have not seen a Star Wars movie since 1983. And I almost never write about anything in the Marvel Comics Universe or DC Comics, simply because, I mean, I have, I, I have made a very concerted effort to see these films to keep up. But, and I'm not exaggerating, I found them so depleting. I remember watching Guardians of the Galaxy. And while I was watching it, I thought, this is like watching a toaster being assembled. It, it just, it simply seemed like nothing but a product where Tab A goes with Tab B, or this part slots into this part, and I thought this, this cinema is just simply not for me.  NEIL: Yes. Well, you use the word depleted, which is interesting, which I think of depleted as being like, something is taken from you. So what is taken?  MELISSA: Uh, well in those instances, my love of going to the movies. I mean it still really seems like an adventure to me. Anytime I go to a screening room, you know, anytime I'm, I'm, I'm there to review something, I'm there with my, with my uni-ball pen and my MUJI line notebook and I enter the screening room really as an act of good faith. And so these movies I'm describing, like Guardians of the Galaxy, or Thor, or whatever, those I saw as a civilian because I also think it's very important that as a film critic you, you see more than the movies that you are assigned to write about. And so I went to see these superhero movies, comic book movies, intellectual property movies on my own, you know, just to keep up. And with these films, that sense of adventurousness - that ended. Then it just, it felt like a chore just to remain in my seat until the film's completion.  NEIL: Out of family obligation, I will be seeing a lot of the franchise movies or whatever they're called. I just saw Star Wars over the holidays. And, uh, it, it does feel a little bit like a tour. But you know, my approach to the movies and this sounds so snobby, but, uh, I really do feel like sleeping during a movie is a form of interactivity. You know what I mean?  MELISSA: Andy Warhol certainly thought that, and have your fact checking department vet this, but the great Amos Vogel, who was a crucial person in New York City film culture, one of the founders of the New York Film Festival, I believe, he also said that sleeping during a film is an absolutely legitimate response to, to what you're seeing on screen.  NEIL: Absolutely. You know, you're doing a little re-edit, you know, by, by sleeping and - MELISSA: De tournage, you're detourning the moving image.  NEIL: Exactly. What is, what is a recurring thought you have? What's a thought you keep returning to?  MELISSA: Can I turn the oven off? No. Well, that is sadly... Uh. Well. It's a recurring concern, and I mentioned it earlier, which is, how am I going to make my writing better? Just yesterday, in fact, I looked at something that I wrote last year that when I completed it and filed it and went through the editing process, I thought, Oh, this piece is all right. Yesterday, while revisiting this year-old piece, I thought, how was I not run out of town? This is a colossal embarrassment.  Yeah. I don't know if, how you approach your previous works. Do you revisit older stuff that you have done or do you just, do you operate under the assumption that no, never, never look back? Just keep moving ahead.  NEIL: Revisit it to, to revise it or just to look at it?  MELISSA: Just to look at it.  NEIL: It's something, it's - one of the things I truly dislike the most is, as part of the whole artist shtick, one has to do artist talks and show past work, and I, I don't like doing it at all, primarily because it just feels so dead. Like, and I do feel like a work for me is not finished until the point that I have stopped really having feeling for it. You know what I mean? One becomes detached to it, and maybe there's a value to becoming detached from it in that, um, it allows one more flexibility, fewer feelings of darlings that are being killed and stuff. But I'd love never to look at it. For sure. But you, it sounds like you do kind of consciously revisit your past work. MELISSA: Well, sometimes, you know, invariably, I will be writing about an actor, a performer who I may have written about in another film five years ago, and I'm curious to see what I wrote then, just so that I don't repeat myself. I'm revisiting stuff just to make sure I'm not saying the same thing over again, or I'm curious to gauge my different responses if indeed there is a difference.  NEIL: Let's go to the cards, shall we?  MELISSA: I'd love to.  NEIL: Excellent. Okay, so the first card is the correlation between smoldering internal rage, and the lighthearted use of exclamation marks. MELISSA: I, when I see an abuse of exclamation marks, particularly in email correspondence, I feel nothing but a red-hot smoldering rage. Not even smoldering, just full-on Mount Vesuvius-level Krakatoa explosion. I have been told this is generational, that those younger than this elderess, and that is now billions of people, prefer the exclamation mark. And the period, which I think is a very fine mark of punctuation, is considered by millennials and younger to be somewhat passive-aggressive.  NEIL: Oh, that's interesting. I feel like exclamation marks aren't necessarily passive-aggressive, but they're meant to.  MELISSA: No, no, no. The period is passive-aggressive. NEIL: Right. No, I get that. But I feel like there's a similar kind of belying or something happening with the exclamation mark, but it's about rage. Like, um. Well, I guess passive-aggressive typically means, uh, that you have aggressive feelings that you're masking. I think of it as a more diffuse, the, the exclamation mark, as more - it's not trying to communicate anger at someone, but a free-floating anger that is perfumed by way of the exclamation mark. MELISSA: Right. Because the exclamation mark perfumes it with a cheerfulness or an excitement. It just exhausts me.  NEIL: Oh, absolutely. It asks so much of you. You always have to ask, what does it mean?  MELISSA: Yes.  NEIL: And when was the last time you used one?  MELISSA: Just yesterday, in fact, wishing someone a happy 2020.  NEIL: Oh yeah. You got to do that. A period there is, is slightly hostile. MELISSA: That seems very dour and grim.  NEIL: Next card: that bring-down moment, after you've watched a transcendent performance, when you first go to look at your phone. And perhaps this applies to movies.  MELISSA: Well, after I've seen something really terrific, whether it be a live performance or a motion picture - to maintain that feeling, I will defer looking at the phone for quite some time. I just like to replay it in my mind.  NEIL: Yeah. How do you feel right after a show if you're with someone and they're, like, wanting to analyze it?  MELISSA: This drives me crazy. Of the many billions of things that I appreciate about my fantastic lady, one of them is that, in the many years that we've been together, in the many thousands of movies that we've seen together, we will leave the theater, and neither one of us feels this compulsion to say, so what did you think? What did you think? Which really sends me into murderous rage. And, uh, there was a time when I was going to film festivals fairly regularly. And for seven years I went to Le Festival de Cannes, where, talk about depleting. Press screenings at the Cannes Film Festival begin at eight-thirty in the morning. NEIL: Wow.  MELISSA: So one is rushing to see, you know, the latest Lars von Trier or whatever. You come stumbling out into the bright Mediterranean sun, and you are just surrounded by all of these film critics who are just assaulting, assaulting you with a quote. What did you think? What did you think? And I. This really, so many times, really put me over the edge. You just need time to simply let the images or the live performance, whatever you've just seen, let it wash over you. Sink in. So I find the question an assault.  NEIL: Next card, Melissa. Looking in my apartment's compost container is sort of like gossip. I find I enjoy looking in the compost.  MELISSA: You know, I also enjoy it somewhat, and I will also say that I feel that now one-fourth to one-third of my waking hours are spent taking the compost down to the compost bins. Yeah, it is, it is something of a time investment. But when I look at it, forgive me, I must say it - I'm overcome with a sense of virtue because my lady and I, we like to do a lot of cooking at home, and I make, uh, at least one, sometimes two cups, very strong French-pressed coffee. So all of my coffee grounds around there. And so, yes, in fact, before leaving the house, I took the compost out, and I thought, Oh look. Greens and coffee grounds and brown eggs. We're doing great.  NEIL: This is your own compost you're talking about.  MELISSA: My co- the compost of the soul.  NEIL: I hear that. It is deeply virtuous. I feel very embraced by compost. Like I like that compost, within its parameters will accept everything, and you don't have to tell food scraps how to become compost. I know that there's some work involved. It just feels embracing. It takes. Compost takes.  MELISSA: You know, one feels really in tune with the spirit of the first Earth Day in 1970. NEIL: That feeling when the plane lands and they dramatically reverse the engines to slow it down.  MELISSA: Well, if it, particularly if I'm coming back to New York, I'm, I'm spirally thinking, will I be able to make it to the air train in time? Will I be able to make it to the LIRR to pull into the Atlantic Terminal, which is a convenient 10-minute walk from my house. One would hope that the slow brain would kick in. The slow brain being, Oh, how great. One has landed safely, although now that I mentioned that, should one be feeling grateful that one has landed, or should one be filled with what my Shero Greta Thunberg has us thinking about, which is Flygskam, or shame of flying. Yeah. So I think the next time I fly, and I'm not sure when that will be, yeah. I, when the plane lands, maybe I'll just be feeling filled with shame.  NEIL: Yeah. I feel a variation on that because when it goes in reverse, you feel how much force is required to, to stop the plane, you know, which suggests how much, how much energy is going into propelling the plane forward, and you're burning fuel to send it in reverse. So it is a moment of - MELISSA: And killing Mother Earth. You think, how big is my carbon footprint?  NEIL: Oh God.  MELISSA: Sorry, Greta.  NEIL: Yeah. I just watched Greta's um, speech, finally, um, over, yeah, over the vacation, because, I don't know how I hadn't seen it before, but - MELISSA: I still haven't seen it.  NEIL: It's prophetic. A lot of it is like, You, meaning people of - I'm 56, like my generation. "How dare you" is the refrain, which, I think, I would have reworked that. Um. MELISSA: You're going to copy edit Greta.  NEIL: Yes, exactly.  MELISSA: Take a red pen to Greta.  NEIL: But a lot of it... I can imagine 20 years, something down the line, I do feel like there's going to be a generational justified wrath, um, hitting us, hitting people of my age, you know. And she speaks that.  MELISSA: I find her incredibly inspiring. I mean, yes, in all seriousness, I really am. I'm not someone who flies a tremendous amount. I'd say I'd average two to three flights a year. But this whole concept of the Flygskam, it has really made me think, thanks to this 16-year-old prophetess that, yeah, this is really, um, a great harm that I am perpetuating by flying so I can have a vacation in Paris or go visit friends in Los Angeles. So I have tremendous respect for this fiery, oracular, young person.  NEIL: Melissa, when you put your arm around a friend or hold their hand, but then the discomfort of when to disconnect emerges.  MELISSA: Um, I think of myself as a pretty physically-affectionate person with friends. I'm really not a hand-holder.  NEIL: Uh huh.  MELISSA: Even with my lover, and we've had some discussions about this. Because she, when we first began our love journey so many years ago, she would often like to take my hand out in public. And I thought, this kind of bugs me. But, and I, you know, I wanted to check in with myself. Why? Is it internalized homophobia? And then I realized, I, I, I landed upon what bothered me about it. There was something about my hand being held. It made me feel infantilized. Her arm around my shoulder, or even better, her arm around my waist - that I was into. Cause that felt more like a PG-13 type of public display of affection. NEIL: Right.  MELISSA: And also with the hand-holding, you know, I try to be very conscientious about taking up public space. And when you're walking around a couple holding hands, it's an impasse.  NEIL: It is like a blockade.  MELISSA: If there's a way that one could have a public display of affection while walking single file, that is, that's the challenge of 2020. Lovers, lovers of New York City. Think of how this can be done. The piggy-back ride. Will that be the way to show somebody you're really sweet on them in 2020?  NEIL: You do see the occasional piggy-back ride, but it doesn't make me feel good.  MELISSA: Not so sexy, right? You know, we're surrounded by an army of lovers. NEIL: That's true. Taking up space. Um, you know, I feel the same thing about holding hands in public. It's not about the physical infantilizing thing, but it is a type of intern - I don't know if it's internalized homophobia. It's like, yikes. Are we gonna get a bottle thrown at us?  MELISSA: Hmm.  NEIL: I'm sure there's internalized homophobia in there too. MELISSA: But again, I don't, it's, it's not that, it's just... Okay, well actually now I'm thinking about this more. I'm fact-checking myself, holding hands in the movies is okay. Because you're - one's parents, or certainly my parents, wouldn't hold my hand during the movie.  NEIL: True.  MELISSA: But holding, holding one's hand in public. That is something your parents did to you as a child.  NEIL: We've nailed it. You've nailed it. That's it. Yeah. MELISSA: I'd like to thank all of the years of psychotherapy I've had on the couch of, well, should I name my psychotherapist?  NEIL: If you want to give a shout-out.  MELISSA: Well, she's a... She knows who she is. NEIL: Yes, exactly. That. Let's hope. Let's hope one's therapist knows who they are. I've never name-checked my, my therapist either. Um, and yet all my years in therapy, I never came to the conclusion about the hand-holding. NEIL: What's a bad ex you'd take over a good Y? MELISSA: Me, who considers herself to be really one a gift of the gab - I'm stumped. I would take, I would take a bad movie that's not in the Marvel Comics Universe or a Star Wars movie - I would take a bad movie any day over a good television show.  There's no romance to watching television.  NEIL: Is it context?  MELISSA: There's no sense of adventure in staying home and watching television. When you commit to seeing a movie, you have to leave the house. And it seems that, increasingly, even in New York City, this great, dynamic, incredible place, the messages we keep receiving are: stay at home, stay at home, cocoon. You never have to leave the house. Everything will come to you. You'll have your content delivered to you. You'll have your food delivered to you. Stay home, stay home.  No, leave the house, people. It's very exciting to go to the movies, even if it's a stinker. There's so much that could happen, so much that's beyond your control. It's terrifying, but it's exciting. Leave the house. Leave it. Leave your house.  NEIL: On that note, Melissa Anderson, thank you for being on - that didn't sound genuine. I have to do it again.  MELISSA: Yeah. Talk about passive-aggressive. Speaking nothing but periods.  NEIL: On that note, Melissa, thank you so much for being on SHE'S A TALKER.  MELISSA: It was a great honor, Neil Goldberg. I thank you.  NEIL: Bye. That was my conversation with Melissa Anderson. Thank you for listening.  Before we get to the credits, there's a listener response I'd love to share with you. In my conversation with Jon Wan, in response to learning that they studied jazz saxophone in high school, I said, "I'm going to make a controversial generalization: I don't think jazz is gay." Jon and I then talked about the way jazz offered a model of cool and casualness that didn't feel available to us as awkward, closeted high-schoolers. Steven Winter emailed saying, "Jazz is self-expression within yourself being rendered into outer sensation. There are so many ways to cut the cake of the music called jazz, but three key essentials are: one, freedom; two, swing; and three, improvisation. Can these elements not also be used to describe the fundamental pillars of LGBTQ survival in the 20th century up till now? Jazz is about describing and finding yourself as an individual. That's why you can hear a dozen jazz versions of the same tune, and each will hit you in a different way. Can the same thing be said of the gay movement? Yes, it can." Thank you, Steven.  If you have something you'd like to share about a card or anything else you've heard on the podcast, email us or send us a voice memo at shesatalker@gmail.com or message us on Instagram at shesatalker. And also, as always, we'd love it if you'd rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or share this episode with a friend. This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Devon Guinn produced this episode. Andrew Litton mixed it. Molly Donahue and Aaron Dalton are our consulting producers. Justine Lee handle social media. Our interns are Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, and Jesse Kimotho. Our card-flip beats come from Josh Graver, and my husband, Jeff Hiller, sings the theme song you are about to hear. Thanks to all of them, and to my guest, Melissa Anderson, and to you for listening.  JEFF HILLER: She's a talker with Neil Goldberg. She's a talker with fabulous guests. She's a talker, it's better than it sounds, yeah!

SEASON 2: EPISODE 6 Performer Jon Wan argues that kids are campy. ABOUT THE GUEST  Slipping in and out of drag skin Kiko Soirée, animagus Jon Wan serves an alluring feast of emotion - sensual, sincere, stupid. Kiko (@kikosoiree) is a queer comedian, host and drag queen, performing at venues like Club Cumming, Joe's Pub, The Bell House, Ars Nova, Caroline's, Union Hall, MoCA, Caveat, and UCB. They've been named by Time Out Magazine as one of the rising LGBT POC comedians to watch. Monthly, Kiko hosts 'A+, The Pan-Asian Drag and Burlesque Revue', in the Lower East Side, and seasonally, produces the original musical advice show, 'Dear Kiko'. Their Spanish is better than their Cantonese which hasn't made their mother proud but tracks for the American Born Chinese narrative. ABOUT THE HOST Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as “tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny.” His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he’s a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil’s first video project. “One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate’s cat and found myself saying the words ‘She’s a talker.’ I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying ‘She’s a talker.’” A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund.  Producer: Devon Guinn  Creative Consultants: Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue  Mixer: Andrew Litton  Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver  Theme Song: Jeff Hiller  Website: Itai Almor Media: Justine Lee Interns: Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho, Rachel Wang Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Nick Rymer, Sue Simon, Maddy Sinnock TRANSCRIPTION JON WAN: I just took saxophone cause my friend was also gonna play saxophone, and I just played it through middle school. Then I just continued in high school, and then after freshman year I was like, I don't actually like this instrument. And I'm definitely not a jazz person. Cause I was having saxophone lessons with this person who was a very cool cat. And I was like, I am not understanding fundamentally why I'm here. This isn't clicking with me.  NEIL GOLDBERG: I'm going to really make a controversial generalization here. I don't think jazz is gay.  JON: Oh, no, I don't think so either. You have to be like kind of loose and like -  NEIL: Exactly, a type of casualness. JON: Yeah, and like comfortable with your body and expression, and I was not - like I was learning classical piano from an oppressive Russian teacher, growing up as a Chinese American, closeted, in a primarily white town. I did not know how to express myself in a healthy way.  NEIL: Right. JON: Right. NEIL: Hello. I'm Neil Goldberg, and this is SHE'S A TALKER. I'm a visual artist, and I have a collection of thousands of index cards on which I've been jotting down thoughts and observations for about two decades. In SHE'S A TALKER, I explore the cards through conversations with guests and responses from listeners. These days, the cards often start as voice memos I record throughout the day. Here are some recent ones: When a parent says to a kid, "Look at me," I'm suspicious and think the parent is probably a narcissist. Thick Sharpies are to thin Sharpies as water bugs are to roaches. Art project: drawing all the missing arms in selfies. Today, my guest is Jon Wan. Jon, who often appears on stage as their drag persona, Kiko Soiree, describes themself as a Swiss Army knife performer whose work weaves together musical comedy, storytelling, standup, and beyond. Jon's performed at Club Cumming, Joe's Pub, the Bell House, Ars Nova, Caroline's Mocha, and has been named by Timeout Magazine as one of the rising LGBT people of color comedians to watch out for. We spoke in February at a recording studio at The New School near Union Square in New York City. I'm so happy to have with me Jon Wan.  JON: Hello.  NEIL: Hi Jon. Thank you for being on SHE'S A TALKER.  JON: I'm enchanted to be here. Simply.  NEIL: Simply. What are the alternatives, in terms of enchantment, besides simple enchantment? JON: Oh, very complex. Yeah. Like arcane magic, you know? Not for pedestrian folk.  NEIL: Yes. Complex enchantment. What is your elevator pitch for what you do? JON: I am a drag queen, performer, comedian bopping around New York City. You might know me as my drag persona, Ms. Kiko Soiree, performing and doing shows here in this beautiful garbage city and really always aspiring to one day live within walking distance of a Trader Joe's. NEIL: I see it for you. I really see it for you. You know, a Trader Joe's just opened opposite where Jeff and I live.  JON: No, which one?  NEIL: Uh, it's on Grand Street. Grand and Clinton.  JON: Oh, wow.  NEIL: It's the biggest Trader Joe's on the Eastern Seaboard, I'm told.  JON: That's crazy. So you live near not only a Trader Joe's, but a historic one. NEIL: Yes, exactly. Uh, what does your mom, when she's talking to her friends, what does she say you do?  JON: Oh, (In his mother's accent) oh, Jon um, oh, Jon lives in New York City. (back to normal voice) And then she kinda just like shoos the conversation. I think, she knows I'm a drag queen. I don't think she publicly has the language to talk about it the way she might alternatively say, "My daughter works for a pharmaceutical company." Do you know what I mean?  NEIL: Right. Do you have a sister that works...?  JON: She does. Don't worry. It's a good pharmaceutical company.  NEIL: Oh yeah. Uh, what does your dad say?  JON: My dad, uh, is actually very vocally supportive of my creative life. He usually says, "He's a performer and a comedian, and..."  NEIL: What kind of performances does he do? JON: "Oh, (In his father's accent) Jonathan does his funny stand up in New York City." And just stuff like that and yeah, I don't think they're, they're like ashamed of anything I do, but my dad came here for college. My mom came here when she was 13. They're kind of this transition generation, you know, they, they were really straddling both cultures and had to deal with the more brutish parts of assimilation. They came from traditional Chinese parents, but they're, you know, they're open-minded. They both grew up. They were like hippies. You look at old photos of them. My mom had like hair down to her waist. But, you know, you know, I'm the first drag queen of my family.  NEIL: That you know of.  JON: Hopefully not the last. NEIL: Yes. What is something you find yourself thinking about today?  JON: Um. Today, I was thinking about how everyone is a walking advertisement. I was a sucker for the AirPods, the first ones that came out. They're just, I know when I put them in my ear, I'm going to feel very sexy, and I had this thought today as I was putting them in my ear. It's like everyone is a walking advertisement.  NEIL: So when you're wearing AirPods, you're an advertisement for...  JON: Yeah, for Apple. My AirPods now suck because I lost the original case and I bought a knock off one on Amazon for like 30 bucks and they do try to pair with everyone on the train.  NEIL: Oh really?  JON: I just kind of, but you can't do it successfully. NEIL: It's like your dog humping strangers' legs or something. JON: Truly. I can see on people's phones like something comes up and says, Not your AirPods. It goes all the time and I just keep my head down and I just. I didn't want to pay another $70 for the case. NEIL: I've curated some cards just for you. Um, first card, Jon.  JON: Okay.  NEIL: All kids' names are campy.  JON: Absolutely. Cause kids are camp.  NEIL: How so?  JON: I used to teach, um, preschool in undergraduate. so I worked with three, four, and five-year-olds. And when you talk to a kid, it's very serious. It, it's of the utmost importance. And it's also insane.  NEIL: Which is the essence of camp!  JON: Which is the essence of camp. Um, but you know, when they're just playing, they're just talking very seriously about something. Or they're telling you an opinion, something they saw today, like.  (imitates kid's voice) "Like, Mr. Jon? Today, I, I saw a dog and... Dog had a really long tongue."  (back to normal voice) And they like will drop whatever they're playing with me to let me know about this thing, which neurologically like they're doing that thing where like, they have seen a new category that they don't yet understand and they're trying to integrate it into what they do, right? So I have to be there and say, "Daphne, tell me about the dog." You know, like I want to know more. Well, what color was the dog? You know what I'm saying? "It was, it was brown." I'm like, okay. All right. It was brown. I love that. So, but then it's also insane cause you're like, this is so crazy.  NEIL: To me, it makes perfect intuitive sense how that connects to camp. But could you, could you... JON: I think it connects to, I mean, camp, I mean, treats itself seriously, but knows it's also ridiculous. You know. I mean, campy drag queens like divine, completely over-the-top makeup and personality, but acting and performing with a lot of conviction.   NEIL: The difference, though, may be being, and maybe it's a technical difference, do you think kids know that they are ridiculous? JON: No. Absolutely not. Did you - NEIL: Okay. So they're inadvertently campy?  JON: Unless they were like early stars and then they're like, Oh, okay, people are enjoying what I'm doing.  NEIL: Right, right, right, right.  (flip card) I love the smell of a drag queen.  JON: Absolutely not. If you really smelled, uh, maybe the perfume that we put on at the very end, but if you smelled any of our undergarments or any of our clothing, that's, some of that, I mean, the vintage pieces maybe haven't ever been washed. Maybe just sprayed down with some alcohol and water.  To get rid of the bacteria and the smell. Um. And I'm not washing pantyhose every single week. Are you thinking of the metaphorical smell?  NEIL: I have no idea what that is. And I'm all in.  JON: Every drag queen has a different energy and that can be very intoxicating. That's like half the fun, that someone's showing you something on the other side of the looking glass. NEIL: Aha. But the literal smell for me is always about just powdery perfume. But you're saying beneath that is just... filth.  JON: I've, I guess I've, I've done it so many times. I'm no longer piqued by just the smell of powder and, and lipsticks and things like that. Just, that's kind of smells like the entrance of a, of a Macy's, you know? You know what I'm talking about, right? You walk into a Macy's and it's always like the perfume entrance, right? NEIL: Yeah, yeah. That somehow seems like a euphemism. Smells like the entrance of Macy's.  JON: God, she smelled like the entrance of a Macy's. I'm not going back there, Charlotte.  NEIL: Um, I guess I have thought about like with padding and tucking, uh...  JON: Mhm. Machinery going on. NEIL: Yeah. Which does involve compressing the body, or, or depriving the body of air circulation, which I guess could generate smells, right?  JON: Yeah. It's tight. I mean, if you're, I mean, if you're just, even if you're putting on hips, right? Let's say you're padding, some people, some queens are wearing four or five layers of tights, right? Just to make a smooth silhouette. Um, you know, and you're hot, you're moving around, your head is hot cause you're wearing a wig. My hair lines are glued down, so everything's sleek. So when I go, you know, getting out of drag is the best feeling.  NEIL: I can imagine. Do you get out of drag at the venue or at home? JON: I am an at home queen. And I'm also a get ready at home queen, too. I just ride the train down.  NEIL: Really?  JON: Yes. I mean, I'm in drag, but have like a winter coat on, and a scarf, and I have sweatpants over my dress, so I look like just like a, a gymnast going to a meet or something.  NEIL: To a Wheaties commercial.  JON: I look like a suburban mom going to Costco. NEIL: That thing of posing people in nude photos, so their genitals are hidden by a raised knee or what have you.  JON: That's very Black Mirror to me.  NEIL: Oh really?  JON: Oh, just like it's on the cusp of this is, this is very sexy, and also, what are we doing, right? What the hell are we doing? This is insane. I think of Instagram immediately. NEIL: Oh yeah, sure.  JON: People just like, a sexy photo of themselves. It's like, "You're naked." You hid, you moved your body a little bit. We're one centimeter away from seeing whatever it is, you know? But it's like, if you cover a little bit, Instagram's like, Oh, you're not nude.  NEIL: Isn't that deep?  JON: It's crazy. It's true. It's true. It's truly wild.  NEIL: I wonder if there is a fetish around obscured - like if there are people who get off on the actual obscuring.  JON: Oh, 100% yeah. 100% think that's a fetish. I mean, in the same way that just wearing a leather chest strap, that's totally nonfunctional.  NEIL: Right, exactly.  JON: Like there's not even a function to it. NEIL: Yeah.  JON: But I'm just imagining you in a different way. I mean, you know, cause you're an artist. Marina Abramovic's, um, performance where she stood naked, right? And she had a table of instruments.  NEIL: Yeah.  JON: That was, I think like the exploration of like is, is this actually like. Well, it was exploring a lot of things. Like one of the questions I had was like, is this sexual? Like, she had a feather. She had a knife. She had a gun, right?  NEIL: Uh, may have had a gun, uh, I thought she had scissors too. Or maybe I'm confusing that with Yoko Ono's "Cut" piece. Um, yeah, there were things that could do violence for sure.  JON: I think there was a gun. NEIL: Yeah, that sounds right.  JON: Um, that sounds very Marina probably.  NEIL: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.  JON: But, um, I think the reason why I thought Black Mirror at first, cause it's like we are so... We are surfing the simulacra of society.  NEIL: Oh my God.  JON: Who, Baudrillard? Is that the philosopher?  NEIL: Mhm. Society of spectacle. JON: I am really smart right now in this hour... NEIL: Oh my God. Um, it's funny you mention Marina Abramovic, cause one of the cards I have, or this is just an idea for an art project I would love to do, which is, you know, the artist is present where, you know, you would sit with and look into her eyes. But I'd like to do that with, butt warmth. You'd sit on chairs and then you would just switch. Like I could feel your butt warmth on the chair, and you could feel mine.  JON: And I'm going to, I'm going to build on this. The seats, to kind of give it some sort of like, um, sexy factor. The seats are thermo-visually dynamic. So when you sit, you can see the warmth, um, like a print? That the last person -  NEIL: The heat, the heat map.  JON: Mhm. The heat map of the last person.  NEIL: If that's what it's called. Our first collaboration.  JON: That's going to sell tickets at the MoMA. NEIL: This is a card I found tucked under my, uh, the, the sofa in my studio, and all it says is: Anus. JON: You know, synchronicity. Because we recently got a bidet. Um, which has quickly made my Top 2020 List of things to improve your life.  NEIL: Oh my God. Yeah.  JON: Um, bidet.  NEIL: Yeah.  JON: Pretty, uh very affordable. There are certain models that are just like, even under 50 bucks.  NEIL: Oh, wow. Okay.  JON: Will change your life.  NEIL: Huh? I, um, I would be, cause I feel like I've seen some like bidets that border on like the geriatric medical in terms of their appearance, you know, where they look like an add-on to the toilet seat. And, I feel like I would embrace a bidet deeply, but I need for the aesthetics to be on point.  JON: I hear you. I'm also someone who is an obsessed aesthete. And also I'm very practical and functional. And I really saw no point of a bidet cause I had a, was doing perfectly fine for God knows how many years, right? But we won it in a Santa Swap, like a, you know, the white elephant thing. Um, so we brought it home. I took it through the airport. My bag was fully paused cause they thought I was carrying home a bomb. Like what the fuck is in your bag, right? There's like piping and tubing, and this big shape of plastic and a knob. So, um, so this one's pretty sleek. And a bidet is, it's like a shower just for your ass. And. And that's it. It's, it's like, it's like taking a shower, but just for your anus. I, there's no other way to feel it. And I thought, and then I, I'm, and now I've, I've talked about it in my office because if I'm excited about something, I must to talk about it.  NEIL: Oh, yeah.  JON: And I'm going to put it out there - bidets are very sexual, and every straight man who's out there is understanding the queer experience. I, or like, this is like, you understand. It's like, Oh that's right, butt play isn't just like a gay thing. It's like a universal thing. And uh, you know, the anus is a sexual region, so you let it go for as long as you want. Some people have heated bidets, and that's nice cause then it's warm water. Mine is not, we have a cheap kind. So in the winter time it's frigid. But I like it because it makes me feel like I'm alive, and it's a test of character, which I get off on. And then you're done. And then it's, and then it's like you took a shower. NEIL: Ah. But you know, you should have front loaded the part that it's not heated. That might be a deal breaker for me. Although I also, like you, I'm energized by like, as a depressive. I love winter because it really brings out, um, a feeling of like, the will to live in me.  JON: And it's good for your skin.  NEIL: Cheers. But I don't want. I don't think I want, I don't know. I've never had that experience. I don't think I want a cold-water anal shower.   JON: Uh huh. Well, you know, and neither did I, I thought it would, it would never be on my radar. And that's why it's made my Top 2020 List.  NEIL: Wow.  JON: And I know we're just wrapping up the first month, but I think it's going to be on there. NEIL: Oh, I'm so confident in that, I'm so confident in that. I think if they called it a cold-water anal shower, it wouldn't sell as many units as a bidet.  JON: It would only sell in niche markets for sure.  NEIL: Uh, next card. The way you can tell certain people won't age well.  JON: Yeah. Um, you can just tell. Uh, for me it's just like an impression.  NEIL: Yes. It's not based on facts, for me.  JON: Truly not based on facts. A lot of it really just has to do with their energy.  NEIL: Exactly.  JON: Absolutely. Like their energy, the way they carry themselves, the way they think about themselves. Did you read that Roald Dahl book, The Twits?  NEIL: No. JON: The Twits. I can't recap the entire plot in entirety, but there's this one part of like, they think ugly thoughts and then they became ugly. And it was, you know, he is an amazing writer. But yeah, that never left me as a kid. And I think that continues to apply today. Even there are people who are old, but they just. They look and appear and they feel so young. And they're aging like, “Oh my gosh, you're aging beautifully.” NEIL: Right. I love that.  JON: Right?  NEIL: Yeah.  JON: It's not about having wrinkles or things like that. There really is a disposition, the way you carry yourself.  NEIL: Yeah. I find also, I think that card for me came from like, it, it can be a strategy or it used to be a strategy for managing, like desire. Like I would see someone who was hot to me, but then I would mentally age them and be like, No, as a way to... Yeah, manage my desire.  JON: Yeah. I mean, I'm not petty, but I recently went to a high school reunion and I said, I loved that I did not peak.  NEIL: Oh my God.  JON: I'm still ascending.  NEIL: Oh, you so are. You totally are.  JON: Oh, thank you. And you are too.  NEIL: Um, I think I, I don't know where I am.  JON: You're aging gracefully.  NEIL: Thank you. I'm trying.  JON: That's, and that's the goal. Yeah. No. Cause it's like some people that were like super hot in like, in high school and you're just like, Oh wow. I think we, I think our people had a different kind of strategy. We had a different strategy.  NEIL: Yeah. It's like, um. I just read this book called The Overstory, which is all about trees. I don't know if you heard of it. It's so good. I recommend it, but, uh, it talks about the different things different trees' seeds need to become activated. Like some seeds need extreme cold. Some need to be set on fire. Um, so I think the gay seed... That sounds bad. JON: No, no, no. Perfect.  NEIL: Um, benefits from not having peaked in high school. JON: Yes, absolutely.  NEIL: Can I ask how old you are?  JON: 29. 29, my numerological golden year.  NEIL: Oh, what does that mean?  JON: Everyone has a life path number.  Okay, so mine breaks down to 29 slash 11 slash 2. If you're a, ever all my die-hard numerologists out there. Um, and so 29 is the first reduction. And so I'm 29.  NEIL: I love it. Um 29 and 11 are both prime numbers, aren't they?   JON: Mm, I studied visual arts in undergraduate, so I'm going to pass on this one. But you know, you calculate your number by just adding your birthdate across like... So mine is zero plus eight plus zero plus two plus one plus nine plus nine zero equals 29. Two plus nine is 11. One plus one is two. NEIL: I love it.  JON: And then they all have meanings. You know, there's a whole book. You can Google it.  NEIL: Yeah, I can imagine. Wait, so you were born in August? Was that what I heard? Leo? JON: I'm a Leo. Are you a Leo?  NEIL: No, I'm a Virgo.  JON: Oh! I have a lot of Virgo friends.  NEIL: I have a lot of Leo friends. Well, Virgo teaches Leo. You're taught by the sign that follows you. So Virgo is taught by Libra. Leo is taught by Virgo.  JON: Yes, yes. And. The sign before you teaches a person after to remember that they didn't have to give up the qualities that they left behind. NEIL:  Cheers.  JON: Virgos are famously the perfectionists, right? Natural at managing their immediate environments and, you know, being very meticulous and they could run the whole system, but then they forget that they're also, you know, they can allow themselves to shine. They don't have to be so critical of themselves.  NEIL: That is such a beautiful, um, flipping of the teaching thing. I love it.  JON: You know who is a prime example of a Leo-Virgo cusp?  NEIL: Who? JON: Beyoncé. So you can tell she has the Virgo energy of like, everything must be perfect.  NEIL: Absolutely.  JON: Um, and I'll think of my idea and then I'll present it to you. But then she's also, you know, still carrying her Leo energy of like, I am a star.  NEIL: Right, exactly. That's deep. You have forever changed how I think about, um, the Zodiac.  JON: And that's my time today.  NEIL: Yes. (flips card) What's a bad X you'd take over a good Y?  JON: What's a bad X you'd take over a good Y? Oh gosh. I would take a bad massage over a good meal.  NEIL: I'm with you, totally with you.  JON: I had to really think.  NEIL: Yeah, you look a little spent right now.  JON: No, I mean that, that took the, the, the final juice of my brain. Yeah. We have, we have gone to the trenches of my brain and pulled everything out. That was it. I mean, like, that's it. That's my, that's my ethos.  NEIL: Have you had a bad massage?  JON: Absolutely. And would I take it over a good meal? 100%. I'm a little, I'm a little surprised that I haven't vocalized this earlier in my life, but that's how you know this is the genuine response. Bad massages? Oh, I don't care. Someone's touching me, oh, I melt. I like, I think I'm like in a constant state of low-grade ecstasy when someone's touching me. Right?  NEIL: Yeah.  JON: It could be terrible. And I have had my share of terrible massages. You know, Chinatown massages have a spectrum.  NEIL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  JON: No frills. You can't complain.  NEIL: Yeah.  JON: Good meal? Okay. But I know I'm gonna be hungry again. You know, like... Meal goodness to me is controllable cause you could let yourself go to the brink of like, I can't see, I'm so hungry and anything will taste good. Yes. Sometimes I do that. Sometimes I let myself get so hungry if I'm, if there's a meal I'm not thrilled to eat. I'd be like, Oh, I'm more vegetarian now, but when I would, when I was less, I would hang out with some of my friends, I'm like, Oh, I'm going to go to their place. I'm going to let myself get famished cause then it won't matter what I eat.  NEIL: Cause they're not good cooks, potentially? JON: Cause like, Oh, I really wanted meat. But like who knows what the vegetarian meal will be. A crap-shoot. But I'll be so hungry. It's going to taste like milk and honey from the Bible.  NEIL: You found a way to turn - you've made it predictable. You've managed it.  JON: I mean the gamble is, you do become more irritable and you have to kind of like have a lot of self-control. NEIL: Right, right, right.  JON: People want to small talk with you. You'd be like, okay, when's dinner?  NEIL: When's the shitty dinner that I'm starving for?  JON: A shout out to all my vegetarian friends. I love coming over to your house and don't stop making food from me.  NEIL: On that note, Jon Wan, thank you so much for being on SHE'S A TALKER. JON: Oh, thank you for having me, Neil. NEIL: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of SHE'S A TALKER. Before we get to the credits, there were some listener responses to cards that I'd love to share. In my conversation with Buddhist teacher Kate Johnson, we talked about the card:  I can imagine thinking as I'm dying, "Here we go again."  In response to that card, David Coleman wrote, "The one time that I ever really thought I was about to die, all I could think was, 'Wow, so this is it. Nothing more than this.' It was a feeling of peaceful surprise. This story is from 9/ 11. My building was so close to the World Trade Center that when the first tower started to collapse, it appeared as though it was going to fall to the East, which would've completely flattened my building, and I felt so sure I was about to die. Actually, for the next several months, I had this little secret thought I'd never shared that maybe I really was dead. But then again, my neurologist also said I was the only person he'd ever heard of who enjoyed having a stroke. So don't go by me." Thank you, David. If anyone out there listening has something that you'd like to share about a card on the podcast, email us or send us a voice memo at shesatalker@gmail.com or message us on Instagram at shesatalker. And also, as always, we'd love it if you'd rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or share this episode with a friend. This series is made possible with generous support from Still Point Fund. Devon Guinn produced this episode. Molly Donahue and Aaron Dalton are our consulting producers. Justine Lee handles social media. Our interns are Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho, and Rachel Wang. Our card flip beats come from Josh Graver, and my husband, Jeff Hiller, sings the theme song you're about to hear. Thanks to all of them, and to my guest, Jon Wan, and to you for listening. JEFF HILLER: She's a talker with Neil Goldberg. She's a talker with fabulous guests. She's a talker, it's better than it sounds, yeah!

When it comes to downtown drag, nobody presents a more impeccable snatch than Kiko Soirée. But Kiko—brought to life by the comedian Jon Wan—is dedicated to serving humor, honesty and love along with their looks. Wan sits down with David to talk about the emotional labors he's faced to develop Kiko and become a true star. You can follow Kiko @kikosoiree. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share/rate/review on ITunes. You can follow David @goldberghawn, and get updates from his site, davidgoldberg.online. Be sure to subscribe, so we can deliver you chic interviews every single Tuesday. MWAH! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Mike uncovers the reason for the strange supernatural occurrences he's been experiencing after meeting with Janet, a psychic from Cleveland, alongside fellow spiritual goddess Jon Wan.Want to book a session with Janet?E-mail her today! Tarotbyjanet@gmail.comPLEASE SUBSCRIBE/RATE US on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.BEYOND is a Forever Dog Podcast:http://foreverdogproductions.com/fdpn/podcasts/beyond/Music and Theme Song by Henry KoperskiTheme Song Vocal performed by Katherine Thomas

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Recorded live in Brooklyn, 50 of New York's best comedians take one minute each to go off on culture. Part One featuring: Sasheer Zamata, Jo Firestone, Aparna Nanchera, Cole Escola, Sudi Green, Anna Drezen, Matteo Lane, Alex Song, Aaron Jackson, Sam Taggart, Blair Socci, Christi Chiello, Catherine Cohen, Becky Chicoine, Alex English, Nicole Conlan, Jon Wan, Rachel Joravsky, Kelley Quinn, Peter Smith, Chris Burns, Amy Jo Jackson, Ryan Leach, Brian Faas, and Carly Ann Filbin. The Las Culturistas Icon Award Recipient: Pat Regan. Recorded 3/21/17 at Littlefield in Brooklyn, NY. LAS CULTURISTAS HAS A PATREON! For $5/month, you get exclusive access to WEEKLY Patreon-ONLY Las Culturistas content!! https://www.patreon.com/lasculturistas CONNECT W/ LAS CULTURISTAS ON FACEBOOK & TWITTER for the best in "I Don't Think So, Honey" action, updates on live shows, conversations with the Las Culturistas community, and behind-the scenes photos/videos: www.facebook.com/lasculturistas twitter.com/lasculturistas LAS CULTURISTAS IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST http://foreverdogproductions.com/fdpn/podcasts/las-culturistas/ Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers