Podcasts about World Trade Center

Joe Baum was considered by many to be the greatest restaurateur of the last century. Before he died in 1998 at the age of 78, Joe had created no fewer than 50 restaurants. He's responsible for creating America's first themed restaurants like the Four Seasons in New York's Seagram Building, Windows on the World in the World in the World Trade Center, and the restored Rainbow Room in Rockefeller Center. On this week's show, we pay tribute to the great Joe Baum by speaking with three people who knew him well: Charlie Baum, Dale DeGroff, and Melanie Young. Legendary bartender Dale DeGroff was a struggling actor living in New York in the 1970s when he first came across Joe Baum, eventually working for him at Aurora, and famously, the Rainbow Room. Charlie Baum, Joe's son, grew up immersed in the hospitality industry, but didn't make a career of it until he was older. Charlie eventually was hired by his father to serve as general manager of the Rainbow Room and became a partner in the Windows on the World restaurant. The two of them join us for a wide-ranging conversation about the impact Joe had on their lives, as well as the world of hospitality. For twenty years, Melanie Young ran the powerhouse P.R. agency M. Young Communications. She was also instrumental in the creation of the James Beard Foundation Awards as well as New York Restaurant Week. These days, Melanie spends her time leading the Connected Table media company and hosting the podcast The Connected Table, which highlights the chefs, farmers, vintners, and authors who shape the food and beverage industry. But it was during her M. Young Communications days that Melanie worked closely with Joe Baum, right at the time he was setting the culinary world on fire. She sits down with us in the studio to recall those heady days. For more of all things Louisiana Eats, be sure to visit us at PoppyTooker.com.

Will Duji let JLR lick her armpit? Roger Borkum, a former World Trade Center worker, was beaten to death by three teenagers. DraftKings bets. 

Kidnapped by the upperclassman. JLR's first interaction with a prostitute. Duji hadn't cleaned the seal to her washer for 15 years. Duji thought Rover was going to Antarctica for Christmas. Danke Shoen. Women are undergoing a controversial procedure to remove ribs to have an hourglass figure. Duji's ChatGPT history. Who is crazier the women removing their ribs or the woman who staged an attack on herself? The top 3 sexual fetishes of 2025. Show us your armpits. Will Duji let JLR lick her armpit? Roger Borkum, a former World Trade Center worker, was beaten to death by three teenagers. DraftKings bets.

Will Duji let JLR lick her armpit? Roger Borkum, a former World Trade Center worker, was beaten to death by three teenagers. DraftKings bets. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kidnapped by the upperclassman. JLR's first interaction with a prostitute. Duji hadn't cleaned the seal to her washer for 15 years. Duji thought Rover was going to Antarctica for Christmas. Danke Shoen. Women are undergoing a controversial procedure to remove ribs to have an hourglass figure. Duji's ChatGPT history. Who is crazier the women removing their ribs or the woman who staged an attack on herself? The top 3 sexual fetishes of 2025. Show us your armpits. Will Duji let JLR lick her armpit? Roger Borkum, a former World Trade Center worker, was beaten to death by three teenagers. DraftKings bets. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stories have a way of helping us recognize ourselves, and that's exactly what happened in my conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond. Nana shares what it was like to grow up in Queens, then suddenly move to a boarding school in Ghana, and how that experience shaped her identity in ways she's still uncovering today. As Nana describes her path from writer to author, her years of persistence, and the curiosity that led to books like Powder Necklace and Blue, I felt a deep connection to her commitment to keep creating even when the process feels uncertain. We also explored trust, partnership, and the lessons my guide dogs have taught me—all ideas that tie into the heart of Nana's storytelling. This conversation is an invitation to see your own life with more clarity, courage, and compassion. Highlights: 00:00:10 – Step into a conversation that explores how stories shape courage and connection. 00:01:41 – See how early environments influence identity and spark deeper questions about belonging. 00:02:55 – Learn how a major cultural shift can expand perspective and redefine personal truth. 00:23:05 – Discover what creative persistence looks like when the path is long and uncertain. 00:27:45 – Understand what distinguishes writing from fully embracing authorship. 00:33:22 – Explore how powerful storytelling draws people into a moment rather than just describing it. 00:46:45 – Follow how curiosity about history can unlock unexpected creative direction. 00:59:31 – Gain insight into why treating a publisher as a partner strengthens both the work and the audience reach. About the Guest: Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond is the author of Powder Necklace: A Novel, the award-winning children's picture book Blue: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky, the collection Relations: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices, and My Parents' Marriage: A Novel.  Tapped for her passion about Africa's rich fashion traditions and techniques, Brew-Hammond was commissioned by the curators of Brooklyn Museum's "Africa Fashion" exhibit to pen and perform an original poem for the museum's companion short film of the same name. In the clip, she wore a look from the made-in-Ghana lifestyle line she co-founded with her mother and sister, Exit 14. The brand was featured on Vogue.com. Every month, Brew-Hammond co-leads the Redeemed Writers Group whose mission is to write light into the darkness. Learn more about it here.Learn more at nanabrewhammond.com. Ways to connect with Nana**:** Instagram, Facebook and Threads: @nanaekuawriter Twitter: @nanaekua  www.NanaBrewHammond.com  ORDER my new novel   MY PARENTS' MARRIAGE Read 2023 NCTE Award Winner & NAACP Image Award Nominee   BLUE: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky   Read RELATIONS: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices , stories, essays & poems by new and established Black writers   Shop Exit 14 , all weather, uniquely designed, 100% cotton apparel sustainably made in Ghana About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 And a pleasant, Good day to you all, wherever you happen to be, I would like to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to have a conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond And Nana has a lot of interesting things to talk about. She's written books, she's done a variety of different things, and rather than me giving it all away, it'll be more fun to let her tell the stories and get a chance for us to listen to her. She is in Oakland, California, so she's at the other end of the state for me, and we were just comparing the weather. It's a lot colder where she is than where I live down here in Victorville, where today it's 104 degrees outside. And Nana, you said it was like, what, somewhere around 70. Yeah, it's 68 There you go. See lovely weather. Well, Nana, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here, and I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:23 I feel the same way. Thank you for having me on your amazing show. And it's so wonderful to be in conversation with you. Michael Hingson  02:30 Well, I'm glad we get a chance to spend some time together and we can, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about and make it relevant and interesting. So we'll do that. Why don't we start with what I love to do at the beginning of these is to talk about the early Nana growing up and all that. So take us back as close to the beginning as your memory allows. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:52 Oh gosh, as my memory allows. Um, I so I was born in Plattsburgh, New York, which is upstate near Montreal, Canada. Michael Hingson  03:06 Been there. Oh, cool in the winter. I even crossed the lake in an icebreaker. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  03:12 But yeah, oh my gosh, wow. Okay, yeah. Bring back memories. Well, I was only there for till I was, like two years old. So, but I do, I have gone up there in the winter and it is cold. Yes, it is cold, yeah. So I was born there, but I grew up in New York City and had that really was sort of my life. I lived in New York, grew up in Queens, New York, and then at 12 years old, my parents decided to send me to Ghana to go to school. And that was sort of like a big, the biggest change of my life, like I know that there was a before Ghana and an after Ghana, Nana and so, yeah, wow. Michael Hingson  04:02 So, so when was that? What year was that that you went to Ghana? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:06 That was 1990 August of 1990 actually. Michael Hingson  04:11 So what did you think about going to Ghana? I mean, clearly that was a major change. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:15 Yeah, you know, I, you know, my parents are from Ghana originally. So when, you know, they would always talk about it. We, you know, back then phones, long distance phone calls to Ghana. I, you know, that was, that was the extent of my sort of understanding of Ghana, the food that we ate at home, etc. So going to Ghana was just sort of mind blowing to me, to sort of be crossing, you know, getting on a plane and all of that, and then being in the country that my parents had left to come to the United States, was just sort of like, oh, wow, connecting with family members. It was just, it was a lot. To process, because life was very, very, very, very different. So yeah, it was just sort of a wild eye opening experience about just the world and myself and my family that ultimately inspired me to write a book about it, because it was just, I just, it was a lot to process. Michael Hingson  05:25 Why did they want you to go to to Ghana to study? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  05:30 Yeah, so in the 90s, in New York City or and in the late 80s, there was the crack epidemic was happening, and we, you know, I mean, I remember, we lived in a house in Queens, and when we would, you know, part of our chores was to sweep in front of the house, you know, rake the leaves, that kind of thing in the fall. And we would, all the time there would be crack files, you know, like as we're sweeping up, and I didn't get there where we were young. My sister was, you know, a teenager. I was 12, and my, you know, my younger brother had just been born. He was just like a, like, a little under a year old. And I think my parents just didn't feel that it was a safe place for us as kids to grow up. And so, yeah, they wanted to kind of give us an opportunity to get out of, you know, that environment for a while. Michael Hingson  06:33 What did you think of it? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  06:35 I mean, you know, as a kid, you never want to leave what to you. So it was, I would say it was, it was, it was interesting. Because initially I loved it. I was like, I actually campaigned, you know, I was like, I really, you know, would like to stay in Ghana, but I didn't want to stay for, you know, the three years, which is what I what happened? I wanted to stay for maybe, like a year, kind of try it, you know, go to school for a year. I found it this really cool adventure, go to boarding school and on all of that. But my parents made the decision that we should just sort of ride it out and finish like I had to finish high school. And, yeah, so, so great for me. Michael Hingson  07:25 So you were there for three years, yes. So by you were 12, so by 15, you had finished high Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  07:32 school, yeah, because the system there is different. It's it was at the time the British system. So it was like a form system where I saw I entered in form three, because it was, it wasn't quite the equivalent in the sense that I probably should have started in form two or form one, but I was also an advanced student, and and they, the way the system there works is you have to take a common entrance exam from primary school to get into secondary school. So it's very difficult to get into school midstream there. So we had to go through all of these hoops. And, you know, there was an opening in form three, and that was higher than my, you know, than where I should have been, but I was advanced, so I was able to get into that school that way. You did okay. I assume I did. I mean, I struggled, which was interesting, because I was a very, you know, good, strong student in the States, but I struggled mightily when I first got there, and throughout, it was never easy, but I was able to manage. Michael Hingson  08:49 Now, did your sister also go to Ghana? She Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:52 did, and she was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  08:55 How old was she when you were 12, she was Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:59 17, so she Okay, yeah, almost about to go to college. She was really excited about, like, that portion of life. And then it was like, okay, she's in Ghana. She was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  09:13 Well, how long did she stay? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:16 Well, so she stayed for two years. Because what Ghana has is sort of like, at the time it was something called sixth form, which is, again, the British system. So it's sort of like a college prep in between the equivalent of that. So she basically did that in Ghana. Michael Hingson  09:38 Okay, well, and your little brother didn't go to Ghana, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:44 not yet, not not yet. You Michael Hingson  09:47 mean they didn't send him over at one year? No, okay, well, that's probably a good idea. Well, so looking back on it, what do you think about having spent three years in. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  10:00 Ghana, looking back on it, I think it was actually really, really good for me. I mean, it was that doesn't take away from the fact that it was very difficult. It was very, very challenging, not only academically. It was I was bullied really hard at this boarding school that I went to. The girls just kind of made my life hell. But what was amazing about it for me was that I had, I had exposure to Ghanaian culture in a way that I would never have had in the States. As I mentioned to you, Ghana was sort of that country over there when I lived in America. And you know, it existed as you know, family members coming to visit, long distance phone calls, the food that we ate, that you know, the accents that we had, things that made us different, and at the time, that was not cool. You know, as a kid, you just want to fit in and you don't want to be different. And going to Ghana was my opportunity to learn that, wow, I didn't have to be embarrassed or ashamed of that difference. There was so much to be proud of. You know, my family was, you know, a sprawling family, you know, my my grandmother owned a business, my grandfather owned a business, you know, it was, it was really, it was eye opening, just to sort of be in another environment. People knew how to, you know, pronounce my name, and I didn't have to, you know, just explain things. And that was really affirming for a 12 year old and a 13 year old when you're going through that, you know. So it was really good for me. And in Ghana is where I came to know Christ. I became a Christian, and it was something that spiritually, I was not really, I don't know, I just didn't really think about spiritual. I did on some level. But going to Ghana, it everything just felt so palpable. It was really like we're praying for this. And it happened, you know what I mean, like, yeah. It felt very Yeah. It was just a time in my life when life really felt very the mysteries of life really felt like they were open to me, Michael Hingson  12:37 interesting and so you clearly gained a lot of insight and knowledge and experience over there that you were able to bring back with you when you came Yes, yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  12:55 When I returned to the States, I was just, I think of myself, I guess, as a weirdo. Like, when I came back, I just felt so weird because I couldn't really, fully, you know, connect with my friends, because I had missed out on three years of culture, you know. And you You don't realize how much culture means, like, until, like, you know, you don't have those references anymore. I didn't know the songs that were popular. I didn't, you know, know about, I forget, there was some sort of genes that were really popular while I was gone. I didn't know what they were. I didn't have a pair of them. So it was just sort of this, this interesting time. And I was also young, because I had finished high school, and I was 15, yeah, my friends were, you know, sophomores, yeah, you know, and I was beginning the process of looking into college. So it was just a really isolating time for me and I, but also, you know, interesting and I, again, I say it was, it was ultimately in the in the wash of it. I think it was good because it enabled me to sort of, I guess, mature in a way that enabled me to start college earlier. And, you know, sort of see the world in a much different way. Michael Hingson  14:26 So when you went to college, what did you want to do? Or had you had you decided to start laying plans for a major and what you wanted to do post college, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  14:36 I did not know what I wanted to do. I kind of, I mean, I kind of thought I wanted to be a doctor. I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Like, all my life, growing up, I was like, I'm going to be a doctor. And I was a science student in Ghana, but I struggled mightily. But still, I went. I entered college with us. You know, the plans? To become a bio psychology major. And you know, I took two, three classes, well more than that, I did, like, a year of classes. And I was just like, This is not for me, not for me at all. But yeah, yeah. So it was, it was that was a little rough. Michael Hingson  15:21 Things happen. So what did? What did you go off and do? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  15:25 Then I ended up majoring in political science and Africana Studies, and it was, I remember taking a political science class my freshman year, and I, my my professor was amazing, but it was, it was interesting to me. I think looking back now, being able to think about the world in a way that was sort of linking history and politics and culture together. And I think that was interesting to me, because I had just come from Ghana and had been exposed to, like, sort of this completely different culture, completely different political system, and, you know, kind of having that, I that thinking, or that wonderment of like, wow, you can Life can be so different somewhere else, but it's still life, and it's still happening, but also having that connection as an American to America and what's happening there. And so holding both of those things in my hands when I got to college, I think I was, I just what I was really sort of intrigued by the idea of studying politics and studying culture and society, Michael Hingson  16:48 and that's what you did. Yes, I did. So you got a degree in political science. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  16:54 Yes, a double degree political science and Africana Studies. Michael Hingson  16:57 Africana Studies, okay, and again, that that's probably pretty interesting, because the the Ghana influence had to help with the Africana Studies, and the desire to to do that, and you certainly came with a good amount of knowledge that had to help in getting that as a part of your major. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  17:16 Well, interestingly, my focus was on African American Studies, because I really growing up as an immigrant, like with immigrant parents, their understanding or their their thought process wasn't necessarily, I don't know they weren't. They didn't really raise us to think about race or being black, because their consciousness wasn't about that. It was they were immigrants. You know what? I mean, they weren't thinking about that. So I was actually quite curious, because I did grow up in America and I was black, but I didn't understand, you know, the history of America in that way. And I remember, actually, when I was in was it the third or maybe it was the second or third grade, or maybe it was fifth grade. I did a project on the Civil War, and I remember being so interested in it, because I had, I just didn't, you know, it wasn't. I was so fascinated by American history because I really wasn't. I didn't, I didn't understand it in the way that maybe somebody who wasn't the child of immigrants, you know, might, you know, connect with it. So I was just Yeah, so I was really fascinated by African American history, so I ended up double majoring in it and concentrating on African American politics, which was really fascinating to me. Michael Hingson  18:55 Yeah, and there certainly has been a fair amount of that over the years, hasn't there? Yes, there has, but you can, you can cope with it and and again. But did your time in Ghana, kind of influence any of what you did in terms of African American Studies? Did it help you at all? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  19:15 Um, I, I don't know, because I don't because, because I think what, what I what, what Ghana helped me with was, I remember, I'll say this. I remember one time in Ghana, in class, we were reading a book by an author who had we were reading a play, actually by a Ghanaian writer who was writing about a Ghanian man who married an African American woman and brought her to his home. And there was a lot of clash between them, because, you know, they were both black, but they had different sort of backgrounds. Yeah, and I remember the teacher asking, because the. The the wife that he brought home, the African American woman, mentioned certain things about America, and no one in the classroom could answer any questions about America, and I was the only one who could. And I was, you know, very, very sort of shy in that in that school and in that context. But I remember that day feeling so emboldened, like I was, like, I can actually contribute to this conversation. And so maybe, you know, in on some level, when I got back to the states, maybe there was some interest in linking those two things together. But it wasn't as as is in life. It wasn't obvious to me. Then it was sort of just kind of me following my interest and curiosity. And I ended up, I didn't set out to be an Africana Studies double major, but I ended up taking so many classes that I had the credits. And, you know, I was like, Okay, I guess I'm I have two degrees now, or two, two concentrations, Michael Hingson  21:02 yeah, did you go and do any advanced work beyond getting bachelor's degrees? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  21:08 No, I did not. When I graduated, I initially thought I might get interested, get in, go to law school. But this was me again, following my muse. I realized that my real interest was in writing papers when I was in college. You know, give me a 15 page paper, 20 page paper, I was ecstatic. I loved writing papers. And I think that's one of the reasons, too, why I loved political science and Africana Studies, because we were assigned tons of papers, and it enabled me to sort of, you know, writing these papers enabled me to kind of think through questions that I had, or process what I was reading or thinking about or feeling. And so when I graduated from college, you know, I got, you know, a job, and was working, trying to figure out, Okay, do I want to go to law school? But at the time that I graduated, that was also during the time of, like, the.com boom, and there were a lot of online magazines that were looking for writers, and so I started, kind of, you know, submitting, and I got some some things published. And as that was happening, I was like, I think this is what I want to focus on. Michael Hingson  22:30 So when did you really know that you were a writer? Then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  22:34 I mean, I don't I think that when I got back, when I started working, so I, ultimately, I got a job in advertising, and I was working, you know, as an assistant in the on the account side of things, but there was this whole creative department that, you know, got to, you know, come up with all of the, you know, the the taglines and write commercials and write jingles and all that kind of stuff. And I was, like, so fascinated by that, and that's what I thought, okay, I could if you know, I need a job, I need money, and I want to write, so maybe this is what I need to be doing. And so I ultimately did get a job as a copywriter and and I still, you know, do that work today, but I think I always knew that I needed to write, and I wanted to actually write about my experience in Ghana. So I remember, you know, I started kind of very fledgling. Would began to write into that, and I ultimately started writing that the book that became my first book, powder necklace, on the subway to and from work. Every morning I would wake up very early, write what I could get ready for work, right on the bus, right on the subway, you know, get to work after work. You know, repeat. And it took me many years, but that's what I did. And I wrote my first book, Michael Hingson  24:14 and that was published in 2010 right? Yes, it was, did you self publish? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  24:18 Or I well, I did not self publish. I was published by Simon and Schuster. Simon and Schuster's Atria Books, Washington Square press. And part of my process was I started just kind of, you know, the Internet. The Internet was new. It was something that was available to me. So I started just kind of Googling, how do you get published? And they said you needed a literary agent. So I started looking online for literary agents. And because I lived in New York City at the time, I would literally write my my query letters and like, hand deliver them different agencies. 90s, and one woman, after four years of looking, said, Okay, this sounds interesting. I'd love to meet with you. And I didn't believe. I was like, wow, I've been rejected for four years, and somebody actually wants this, and she was able to sell the book. And I was shocked. I was like, Simon and sister, okay? And at the time they bought it, the, you know, the America, the US, was going through the whole financial, you know, crisis, the recession, in 2008 so they held my book for a year, and then we began the process in 2009 and then they, you know, we were on track to publish it in 2010 Michael Hingson  25:46 Wow. Well, tell me about that book. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  25:51 Powder necklace is a novel. It's a fictionalized account of my experience going to high school in Ghana. I when I went to school in Ghana. I went to a girls boarding school in the mountains of Ghana central region, and that school was going through a major water crisis. We did not, I mean, we the short story is that, I guess, because of we were on the mountain, the water pressure was very low, and so it was really difficult to get the water up that mountain. And they didn't have like enough, you know, tanks around the school and what have you. So we had one artificial well, and then we had, like, an underground well, and that was it. And the underground well wasn't always, you know, full of water to service the whole school. It was really difficult. So, you know, we had to bring in our own water, some. And then it became, if you had money, you could bring water. But if you didn't have money, you didn't and it was a very desperate time for for young girls without being not being able to take a shower on demand. And it was, it was wild. Michael Hingson  27:15 Where does the title powder necklace come from? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  27:19 So the title, I named it powder necklace, because, as I mentioned, taking a shower became this like symbol of the haves and the have nots. And, you know, all of this having water, really. And if so, what, what the girls, what we would do is, you know, after you've taken a bath, people would put tons of powder on their necks. And it was sometimes it was okay we didn't take a bath, so we're going to put powder on our necks to scented powder to cover the odor. But it was also a way, like if you had bathed, to sort of, you know, show off that you'd bathed. So for me, it was as I was reflecting on the on this as I was writing this story and reflecting on that whole experience, I thought, wow, it was sort of our way of holding our heads up, you know, in the difficult situation, and kind of making the best of it. So that's why I called it powder necklace, Michael Hingson  28:17 okay? And that was for children. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:20 Well, it was for young adults, young adults, but Michael Hingson  28:25 it was more writing than pictures. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:27 Yeah, it was a young adult novel. I actually, I mean, this was my first book. I really didn't know what I was doing. I just, I wrote the book and I didn't know that it was a young adult novel, until people were like, Yeah, you wrote a young adult novel. I'm like, okay, Michael Hingson  28:47 works for me. Well, what does, what does being a writer mean to you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:54 Um, I think being a writer means to me being able to articulate. A time, a place, a mood, a moment, being able to articulate it, one for myself, but also to create a record that helps people who don't necessarily have that gift to be able to sort of put words to the experience of living at a time place, having a certain feeling about something. Michael Hingson  29:34 Do you think there's a difference between being considered a writer and being an author, are they the same, or are they really different? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  29:45 I do think that there is a difference, and not in a sort of, you know, highfalutin way. I think the difference is the fact that when you I think, like, when you asked me initially, like, when do you think that you you became. Became a writer. My My instinct is to say that I think I was always a writer, because I think if you write, you're a writer. And whether you're published or not, you're a writer. If you have that inclination, that gift, and you sort of invest in that gift, and invest and develop it. I think you're a writer, but I think with an author, I think then that's to me. I think of it as the business of being a writer, or the business of being, yeah, you are now sort of in business with your publisher. Publisher has invested a certain amount in you, and it then becomes a more sort of public facing thing. The work is not just for you anymore. The work is now being disseminated to a group and hopefully to as many people as possible, and you as the writer now have to figure out, like, how do I get to my audience? How do I maximize or expand the reach of this thing that I wrote? How do I connect with people around the story and build build a readership. And how do I ultimately, you know, the my desire and goal would be to live off of this. How do I make turn this into something that I can, I can do, you know, full time and live off of Michael Hingson  31:38 so you turn from a writer to being an author. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  31:42 I'm, yes, I am an author, and I'm and I'm hoping to get to the to the, you know, the point where I can do it 100% full time, and it be, you know, 100% lucrative in that way. Michael Hingson  31:56 So what are you doing now? In addition to doing books, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:01 also freelance as a copywriter, so I'm still copywriting, Michael Hingson  32:05 okay, I was wondering what you what you did? So you're doing, still marketing and jingles and all those things, yeah, well, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:13 I'm my focus. I do do that, but my focus is mainly in the digital space. So I write lots of websites and web ads and social media copy, and, you know, things of that nature, campaign work. Michael Hingson  32:33 Well, that's, is there anything that you've written or copy written that we would all know, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:42 yeah, I mean, I did. I've done a lot. I guess the maybe the most recent thing that I've done that people might be aware of, or some people might be aware of, is the Brooklyn Museum in New York, did a an exhibition called Africa fashion. And I, they created a short film to promote it, and I, they commissioned me to write an original piece for it. And so I wrote that piece and and performed it in the film. So, you know, people who are into that kind of thing a museum, that that museum might be aware of it. But I've also written for, I did a lot of work for L'Oreal Paris, USA, and I've just done a lot of beauty work. So many of the beauty brands you might be aware, you know, you might know, I've done some work for them, cool. Michael Hingson  33:45 Well, that, you know, you do have to do things to earn an income to to be able to afford to write until you can do it full time. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  33:53 Yeah, yeah. And I actually really love copywriting. I think it's an it's been an incredible teacher in the sense of how to how to crystallize an idea in very short, you know, in just a few words, how to convey emotion in just a few words. And also that storytelling is not just the words, it's how you deliver the story that's all part of it. So I think it's been an incredible teacher in that way. Michael Hingson  34:28 I know for me as a speaker, it is how you tell the story. And I've learned over 23 and a half years of speaking how to take people inside the World Trade Center and actually have them travel with me and do all the things that, and experience all the things that that I went through, and then come out of the other side and I and I say that because so many people after I speak somewhere, well. Come up and say, we were with you in the building. We were with you with everything that you did. And I appreciate that there is a real significant art to storytelling, and part of it is also, and I'm sure that this is true for you as a writer and an author, that part of it has to be that you have to actually connect with the audience. You've got to understand the audience. You've got to connect with them, and you have to bring them along, because they're not expecting to go with you. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  35:33 Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say that I started one of your books just the beginning of it, and I was just running with Roselle, and I was so taken, so absorbed by the first few pages of it. You really do immerse us. And I think that that's the best kind of of writing. You know, when you're able to kind of present material that people may or may not be familiar with, and make it riveting and really bring us into it, and then have us invest being, feel invested well. Michael Hingson  36:16 And I think the last book that we did last year live like a guide dog. I worked really hard to make sure that we were drawing people into the experiences, because every chapter is actually taking lessons from one of my guide dogs and also from Fantasia, which who is my wife's service dog, but each chapter relates to one of those dogs, and I wanted them to be environments where people again were drawn in and appreciate the dogs for what they are and what they do, not just some dumb Animal that comes along. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  37:00 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, so interesting. I think there's, there's so much, I guess. I don't want to use the word, I guess what I want to say, there's a lot of mystery in in the sort of human animal interaction, and people just aren't aware of how powerful it is, and I can, I'm saying that I speak for myself, because growing up, actually, I was really, really scared of dogs and animals, all animals, and I so there's, there's two, there's kind of two stories I'll share. But one is when we were, when we were growing up, my parents, you know, were from Ghana. They wanted to eat goat meat. And at the time, you couldn't just go to a supermarket goat meat. So we used to go to a farm out in New Jersey that had goats, and we would have to go and have the goat, you know, slaughtered and, you know, cut up and all that kind of stuff for the meat. And I remember that whenever the hand would go into, you know, the pen where the goats were, the goats would just were. They would be so stressed out, they would like, you know, part like the ocean walked in, and if he picked, when he picked one out. There would be other people, other goats in the pen that would start screaming in agony, along with the goat that had been picked out. And I was just like, Oh my gosh. That must be his family members, like, or his loved ones. And it was so I remember that was so eye opening to me, like, wow. So I ended up years, years later, I wrote a short story, and I actually did some research on goats and how brilliant they are, and I was just like, wow, oh my goodness, I remember that so well. But I have a cat right now, and my kitty cat is just such a such a joy, like just sort of to build that relationship with, with my with my pet, is just such a beautiful thing, and how she just kind of, because I grew up really scared of pets, and I sort of inherited her when I got when I got married, you know, she's been very patient with me, like, because at first I was so skittish around her, and I could see her, kind of like rolling her eyes, like, I mean, you no harm. You can pick me up. It's all good. And she's just been so wonderfully patient with me. We've built that bond over time. Michael Hingson  39:31 Well, yeah, I have, of course, my my eighth guy, dog, Alamo, and stitch the cat. Stitch is 15 and a half and a real cutie pie. We rescued her. Actually, there were people who were living next to us, and he was moving out. His wife had died, and he just told the people who were moving all of his stuff out, take the cat to the pound. I don't want anything to do with it. And we, we said, Absolutely not. We'll find it a home. And then I asked, What the. Cat's name was, and they told me the cat's name was stitch. And I knew that this cat wasn't going to go anywhere because my wife had been, well, my wife had been a quilter since 1994 and a quilter is never going to give away a cat named stitch. Yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:14 Oh, I'm so glad stitch found a home with you. Michael Hingson  40:18 Oh, yeah. Well, we found a stitch. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:20 Oh, that's right, that's right. Michael Hingson  40:23 And, and, and so she's, she's got lots of personality. And so it really works out pretty well. No, no complaints. And I've always said, Whenever I get a guide dog, because my wife has always had cats, when I get a new guide dog, I've always said, and will continue to say, it has to be a dog that's been raised around cats and has no problems with cats. I have seen a couple of Guide Dogs, actually, that hated cats, and one almost killed a cat, and that's I will never tolerate that. Yeah, they have to get along. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely now, when we brought Alamo home, stitch had a few concerns about this dog in her house. She got over it when she decided that Alamo wasn't going to do anything to bother her and they they talk all the time now and rub noses and all that sort of stuff. Oh, that's so cool, yeah, but, but it's, it is great, and they, they bring so much joy and so many lessons to us that I think it was really important to learn. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  41:34 Yeah, yeah. You're reminding me the first dog, because my grandmother actually loves animals, and when I went to Ghana, she got a dog, and, you know, as a kid, so we got a puppy. And I remember the puppy was initially supposed to be a guard dog, but we I, I would feed the I would hand feed the dog sausages and just spoil the dog so much. Could not be a guard dog, so I loved that dog. Joshua, yeah, Joshua, Michael Hingson  42:07 well, but you and Joshua got along really well. On we got along great. One of the things that people sometimes ask me is if my dog trained to protect and the answer is no, they're not trained, and then they've said, Well, what would happen if somebody were to decide to attack you with the dog around? And my response will always be and rightly so, I wouldn't want to be the person to try that and find out what will happen, because much more than guarding, there's love. And I've always believed that dogs love unconditionally. I think trusting is a different story. They are open to trust, but, but you have to earn their trust. They'll love you, but will they trust you? That depends on you. And so it's it's really pretty cool, but I would not want to be the person to ever decide to try to attack us, because I, I am sure that Alamo would not tolerate that at all. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  43:10 Oh, not at all. How do, how do you or how have you built trust with your your pets? Michael Hingson  43:17 Well, a lot of it has to do with they want us to be the pack leaders. They want us to be their team leader. And so I have to set the ground rules. So, for example, no jumping on the furniture and all that. But again, it's also how you convey that. So if my dog is going to jump up on something and I don't want that, I'll say, leave it. And as soon as the dog obeys, I'll give the dog a food reward, a kibble, to let the dog know, and I'll also use a clicker, but I'll let the dog know I approve of what you did, not punishing them for, you know, something else. Yeah, so it's not punishment, it's positive rewards. I think that's extremely important, but also it is in the stressful times being very focused and calm. So if we're walking somewhere and we get lost, that is not the dog's fault, because it's my job to know where to go and how to get where I'm going, and it's the dog's job to make sure that we walk safely to get there, so if we get lost, that's on me. And what I can't do, or shouldn't do, is panic and become very fearful and upset, because the dog will sense that I have to stop and figure it out and continue to praise the dog, saying what a good job you're doing, and so on. And those kinds of things are the things that will, over time, build that trust. I think it takes a good year to truly build a trusting relationship that is second. To none. And that's the kind of teaming relationship that you want, whether it's a guide dog or any dog. And even as far as that goes, although they're different cats, yeah, but it's, it's all about building that relationship and conveying the command and conveying that you want to trust and be trusted? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:24 Yeah, yeah. I think you're you. What you said that really resonated with me is that they want to know. They want you to be the pack leader and the and part of that is, you know, you lay down the ground rules, but also you're responsible for them and their well being. And, yeah, that really, that really resonated with me. Michael Hingson  45:48 Well, so you wrote your first book, and then when did you write your second book? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:55 My second book came out in 2022, so it was a 12 year spread in my first book and my second book, Why so long? Oh my gosh, my book, I was the book I was working on, like to sort of follow, was just rejected for, for all that whole time, and I was, you know, in more and more distraught, and, you know, in despair about it. I didn't know what to do about it. And I actually, you know, I was actually reading the Bible, and I came across the fact that there was a curtain, a blue curtain, in King Solomon's temple. And I was like, why does it matter that the curtain was blue? And so I just started googling casually, and I discovered that there was a snail in antiquity that was harvested for the blue drops that it it secreted, or it secreted drops that were ultimately oxidized to turn blue. And I was like, what I've never heard about this? I started doing some more research, and I realized, like, oh my gosh, the color blue has such a fascinating history. Kids need to know about this. And so I wrote it really as a poem initially, but then I thought, you know, I really want to see if I can get this published. And I was able to get it published, and that became my children's book blue, which was such a bomb to my soul, because after sort of a decade of getting, you know, rejected, and, you know, close to a decade of getting rejected, this, this sort of beautiful, like, sort of knowledge, you know, I came across, But I was able to create a book, and it's just been a wonderful experience with the children's Michael Hingson  47:45 book, wow, so the full title of blue is, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  47:51 it's blue a history of the color as deep as the sea and as wide as the sky. Wow. Michael Hingson  47:57 That should be enough to get the book sold. But as you point out, there's, there's a lot of history, yes, and that, that's pretty cool. So it was, it was released in 2022 and they finally, the publishers finally bought into that, huh? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  48:16 Well, yeah, I mean, that wasn't the novel that I've been working on. So I was still working. I ultimately, I did sell the novel, but that was its own journey, and I ended up writing another book that became the book is called my parents marriage, and it is not about my actual parents marriage. It's a novel about a young woman for adult readers. It's my first book for adult readers, and it is about a young woman whose parents are in a polygamous union, and how they're they have a really turbulent polygamous union, and how that relationship kind of kind of cast a shadow on this woman's, you know, choices in relationships and marriage for herself. Michael Hingson  49:10 So you you publish that my parents marriage. You also did a collection relations. Tell me about relationships. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  49:18 I did. Yeah, so relations is an anthology of its stories, essays and poems that are by writers from all across the continent of Africa. So I have Egyptian poets and Libyan you know essayists and you know, Nigerian storytellers, just it was, it was a really amazing project to work on. I started working on it during August of 2020, which was sort of like I've heard it described as peak pandemic, right? You know, we were several months. Into lockdown, and you know, it became this wonderful way for me to kind of connect while I was sort of holed up in my apartment in New York. Michael Hingson  50:15 Okay, now, were you married by then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  50:18 No, I was not. I had just started dating my now husband, and I was like, Am I ever gonna see this man again? Because he lived in California, so at that time, the planes were grounded. I remember we were, like, on the first, very first flights that were able to start, you know, that started and be on planes, there'd be like, four people on the entire plane. Michael Hingson  50:42 Yeah, hopefully you both weren't on planes going against each other at the same time. No, you did communicate a little more than that. Oh, good. Well, so you published. So when was well? What was relations published? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:02 Relations came out in 2023 okay, February of 2023, and my parents marriage came out in July of 2024. Just came out in July of 2025, Michael Hingson  51:14 which one the paperback of the paperback? Oh, okay. Have any of them been converted to audio Yes, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:23 all, but my first book, are audio books. So blue is an audio book, beautifully read, and then their relations, the stories and essays and poems are read by two speaking artists, and then my parents, marriage is is also wonderfully performed. So, yeah, they're all an audience. Michael Hingson  51:50 That's cool, yeah. So when you're writing, what, what's kind of the difference, or, how do you differentiate between writing for young people and writing for adults. There must be differences. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  52:07 Yeah, I think, I think with for young people, and the practical thing that I try to do is make sure that the vocabulary is are is familiar to them, mostly familiar. I like to put in a stretch word now and then to kind of get them to, like, get to the dictionary and find out what. But if I'm right, when I when I wrote blue, for example, knowing that, you know, the the age group is, the age spread is four to 888, year olds are in third grade. Four year olds are in pre K, so that's that's pretty big spread. So my sweet spot is first and second grade vocabulary words. Okay, it has to be something that they've been exposed to. So thinking of it in that way, the other thing too is breaking down concepts that are, you know, as adults, you know, we just assume that you know, or you can go look it up, but just kind of thinking it through. So if I'm talking about, instead of saying that, you know, there was a snail in antiquity who, you know, heart, you know, dyers were harvesting blue dye from these snails through after a process of oxidation. I wouldn't use any of those words. I would say, snail produced some drops that when exposed to the air and the sun turned blue. And so just sort of really, kind of being mindful of that, and also thinking very visually, writing, very visually. How can I create pictures with words that would be familiar to a child, that can sort of ignite their imagination? Michael Hingson  53:53 Yeah, I think it's extremely important to to deal with the visual aspects of it, but using words and really drawing again, drawing people in because if you just say, well, you can see this in this picture. That doesn't mean a lot, and you're also, I would think, helping to teach or create the concept that some people might some children might want to go off and write because they like how you say and what you say Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  54:24 absolutely and when I when I talk to kids, I go or visit schools, I invite them like I wrote about the color blue. What's your favorite color? These are some some things that I did to kind of learn about it. You can do these things to learn about your favorite color and write your own book? Michael Hingson  54:42 Yeah, yeah, it's, I think, so important to really draw people in and get them to think. And I think it's so much fun for me, I do some of that, but I have probably more of a chance. Challenge, because kids want to play with the dog. Yeah, it's all about the dog. I did a lecture at a K through six elementary school in San Francisco several years ago. I'm trying to remember what school it was anyway, and the teacher said you can only talk for about 10 or 12 minutes, because they just won't pay attention any longer than that. 35 minutes later, I finally ended the discussion, because they were so fascinated to hear me talk about what my dog did. And then I carried that over to how blind people work and function and all that. And the fact is, they were fascinated. The teachers couldn't believe it, but for me, it was a great lesson to know that it's all about creating these pictures that people can follow, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  55:53 yeah, and also to extending those pictures or those words into an experience for kids. Yeah, they really, they really appreciate, sort of like seeing it, kind of, you know, see if the having the concept come to life, yeah, way. And so I'm sure when they see your dog, or are able to interact with your dog, that must be so wonderful for them, Michael Hingson  56:22 but it's important for them to understand what the dog is all about. So by the time they get to interact with the dog, we've talked about things like, you never pet a guide dog in harness. This is what a guide dog does, and this is what they don't do. There are a lot of things to to cover. So it's great when I have the opportunity to really teach them. And sometimes we'll walk around a classroom and I'll show them what he does. Yeah, it's important to be able to do that. Oh, I love that. I love that. And he loves it, of course, all the way. So no question about that. He's you haven't lived until you've seen two or 300 kids all wanting to pet this dog. And the dog knows what to do. He's down on the floor with every appendage stretched out as far as he can go to maximize petting places, petting. Oh, it is so funny. I love that. He loves it. He's, he's, he's so happy. He doesn't care whether he'll do it more with kids even than adults, but, yeah, he'll do it with everybody. It's all about petting me and just remembering I'm the dog. I love that. Well, you've gone through a fair amount of time between books, and I'm sort of curious, what do you think about all the various kinds of changes and ebbs and flows that have come along in the book business, in the book publishing business and so on. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  57:56 Yeah, there have been a lot of changes. Um, I think, um, when my first book came out, like things like, you know, Instagram Bookstagram did not exist. There weren't many sort of podcasts or things of that nature. So I think that there is, there's definitely, there are more venues and more platforms to, you know, get the message out about the book. But I think also there is, it's also just hard. It's in some ways, it also feels in some ways more challenging to get the word out, because in addition to, like, yes, there are more venues in that way, regard, there are fewer book reviewers and fewer places to get a book reviewed, and there's a whole kind of interesting business about around getting reviews. So it's just not the same in that way. But then at the same time. I think what remains the same is connecting with readers. I think the most effective thing is, you know, writing a book that's good and then getting people who have read it and liked it to evangelize, to tell people I liked it, please buy it, or you should have you heard of and because at the end of the day, you know, that's what's going to, you know, give it some wind Michael Hingson  59:30 when thunder dog came out, and we did mention about reviews, and it actually has had, like well over 1600 reviews since it came out in 2011 live like a guide dog hasn't had, of course, so many yet, but every time I get a chance to talk about that book, I ask people to go review it and tell them why it's so important, because potential readers want to know what people think of the book. Yeah, for sure. For sure, it's. It really is important for readers to review and just be honest and say what you think. It's fine, but people should do that. For me, I think one of the biggest things that I see that publishers are doing less of is in a lot of ways, true marketing. You don't, you know, you don't see them doing nearly as much. Of course, I know it's more expensive, but to help create book tours or anything like that, they focus only on social media, and that's not the way to market the book. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:00:33 Yeah, I think, I mean, I've never worked inside a publishing office, so I don't know what actually, how they make these decisions and what goes on, but I do. I think what I have come to sort of think, how I've come to think of it, is the publisher is my business partner, sort of invested in terms of, they've given me an advance. They're going to do the turn key things like, you know, make sure the book gets reviewed by Publishers Weekly, or, sorry, Publishers Marketplace, or no Publishers Weekly. I was correct, and Kirkus review, Kirkus right, and all those kinds of things. And maybe they'll do a mailing to you know who they believe are the people that they need to mail it to. But outside of that, unless you know you, you know it's stipulated in your contract, or you know you are that high, yeah, you know that that celebrity author, or that that best selling author that they you know, are willing to put that money behind. You're working with some your publicist, who's been assigned to your book has is probably working on 10 other books. Can devote so much to it. And so what I've learned is thankful. I'm thankful that, you know, I have this publisher, but I also know that I need to do a lot of work on my own to get Michael Hingson  1:02:04 you've got to be your best marketer, yes, but, but there's value in that too, because you can tell the story whatever it is, like no one else, exactly, exactly. And so that's that's really pretty important, yeah, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:02:18 for sure, for sure. And you can be, you know that I think, also giving yourself permission to be creative, yeah, you know, how can you get the word out in really creative ways, like, again, the publisher. These are things that like, if there was, you know, people, there were many people dedicated to your book for this amount of time, they could kind of sit there and brainstorm and do all those things. But, you know, the reality is, in most cases, it's a small it's a lean and mean team. They don't have that bandwidth, so yeah, just kind of coming up with creative ways. And at times, what I have learned to do is, how can I, if I have an idea that is maybe low cost and but I can't necessarily do it on my own? How can I ask them for support, because they do have, you know, a little bit more resources, Michael Hingson  1:03:16 yeah, and, and the how is really pretty simple. Actually, you just ask exactly, exactly, and you know either they will or they won't, or you'll share it, or whatever. And I have found that same thing to be true. Well, Nana, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? If they might want to talk about you doing copywriting for them or whatever, how can people find you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:03:41 So my website is Nana brew-hammond.com, can you spell please? It's n, a n, a, b, r, e, w, H, A, M, M, O, N, d.com, and I have a newsletter there. So a newsletter sign up. So they can sign up to be a part of my newsletter and connect with me that way. They can also find me on Instagram, I'm at n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a writer on Instagram, and I'm also on Facebook at that same name, and then on Twitter, I am that without the writer. So, n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a, Michael Hingson  1:04:28 okay, cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and and I hope that they will read your books and like them and review them. I hope the same thing. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us today. We really appreciate you being here with us. I'd love to hear what you think. Please feel free to email me. I'm reachable at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I. B, e.com, Michael H i@accessibe.com love to hear your thoughts and love to get your your opinions. I would really appreciate it if you would give us a five star rating when you have the opportunity to review this podcast. We really value your ratings and reviews very highly, and definitely want to know what you think, but please give us a great rating. We love that. If you know anyone who wants to be a guest on a podcast, or you think ought to be a guest, we're always looking for guests. And Nana you as well. If you know anyone, we're always looking for more people to come on the podcast and tell their stories. So we appreciate it. If you'd let us know. By the way, you can also go to my podcast page, www dot Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, that's another way to reach out to me as well. But definitely anything you can do to bring more folks to us, we value it very highly. And so with that, once again, Nana, I want to thank you for being here. This has been great. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:06:01 Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on, and you are such an inspiration. And thank you. Michael Hingson  1:06:13 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Att terrorism inte definieras av FN är ett problem. Det menar Henrik Lagerlund som funderar över några försök att nagla fast begreppet. Bland andra Benjamin Netanyahus. Lyssna på alla avsnitt i Sveriges Radios app. ESSÄ: Detta är en text där skribenten reflekterar över ett ämne eller ett verk. Åsikter som uttrycks är skribentens egna.Det sägs ofta att den enes frihetskämpe är den andres terrorist. Yasser Arafat, grundaren av PLO och själv kallad terrorist av både Israel och USA, sa i FN 1974 att: “Skillnaden mellan en revolutionär och en terrorist ligger i anledningen till att var och en kämpar. Den som står upp för en rättvis sak och kämpar för sitt lands frihet och befrielse ... kan omöjligen kallas terrorist.” Men riktigt så enkelt är det förstås inte.Orden “terrorism” eller “terrorist” härstammar från det sena 1700-talets franska revolution och terrorvälde. Terrorn beskrevs då som något som infördes uppifrån för att folket skulle kunna återfödas, eller, som de själva sa, för att etablera “en generell tendens mot det goda”. Orden användes på liknande sätt om den så kallade “röda terrorn” av bolsjevikerna under det ryska inbördeskriget 1918. Det var också en sorts statsterror riktad mot medlemmarna i kontrarevolutionen; den så kallade “vita rörelsen”. Terrorismen bestod av massdeportationer och arresteringar av så kallade dissidenter.Terrorism som vi känner den idag och som begås av enskilda personer mot stater eller statens invånare är ett mycket senare fenomen som började växa fram omkring andra världskriget. På 60- och 70-talen framträder många av de sammanslutningar som kom att associeras med begreppet, grupper som PLO, ETA, IRA, RAF, FLQ och så vidare. Deras motiv var främst nationalistiska eller ideologiska.En av den första organisationerna av den här typen var den paramilitära sionistiska rörelsen Irgun som angrep både araber och britter i ett försök att etablera en judisk stat på båda sidor om Jordanfloden. 1938 sprängde de landminor på en fruktmarknad i Haifa och dödade 74 människor, 1946 sprängde de King David hotellet i Jerusalem och dödade 91 personer och 1948 anföll de tillsammans med Sternligan den arabiska byn Deir Yassin och dödade 254 av dess invånare. Båda dessa terroristgrupper absorberades i den israeliska armén 1948. Och Irguns ledare Menachem Begin blev senare Israels premiärminister 1977—1983 och fick dela på Nobels fredspris.Idag är nog den religiöst motiverade terrorismen mest spridd. Exempel på sådan är attacken mot Tokyos tunnelbana 1995 av den buddhistiska sekten Aum Shinrikyo. Enligt polisen var attacken ett sätt att påskynda apokalypsen, men enligt åklagaren var avsikten att störta regeringen och installera sektledaren Shoko Asahara. Ingen vet säkert. Ett annat exempel är bombdådet i Oklahoma City 1995. Enligt Timothy McVeigh var bombningen ett sätt att hämnas på FBI för belägringen i Waco, Texas. En brand uppstod då FBI försökte storma en bondgård där en sekt känd som Davidianernas vistades. 76 personer, varav 26 barn, dog i branden. Det mest kända terrordådet med religiöst motiv är naturligtvis attacken på World Trade Center i New York av al-Qaida den 11 september 2001.Än idag finns det ingen vedertagen definition av terrorism inom FN utan istället en rad olika konventioner och deklarationer som fördömer terrorism som en kriminell handling. Ett problem med det är att begreppet ständigt politiseras och sålunda används på olika sätt världen över. Under en intervju med ABC News 1998 sade Osama bin Laden att: “Terrorism kan vara lovvärt och det kan vara förkastligt. Att skrämma en oskyldig person och terrorisera dem är förkastligt och orättvist […] Den terrorism vi utövar är av det lovvärda slaget, för den är riktad mot tyrannerna och angriparna och Allahs fiender […] som begår förräderi mot sina egna länder och sin egen tro och sin egen profet och sin egen nation.” I ett senare brev till det amerikanska folket publicerat i den brittiska tidningen Observer 2002 rättfärdigade han 11 september-attackerna på vanliga människor med att de själva valt den regering som stöder Israel och de på så sätt kan anses vara medskyldiga till den amerikanska statens handlingar. Demokratin användes alltså som ett sätt göra ”oskyldiga” människor till skyldiga, vilket skulle trolla bort begreppet terrorisms relevans.Tanken att det är just oskyldiga som attackeras är nämligen avgörande i alla försök att definiera terrorism. Det är en attack på vanliga människor och inte soldater eller personer som direkt deltar i en konflikter. I en av sina böcker om terrorism skriver en annan av Israels senare premiärministrar – Benjamin Netanyahu – att terrorism är en ny form av organiserat våld mot demokratiska stater som vuxit fram sedan 1960-talet. Han ger också följande definition: ”Terrorism är ett medvetet och systematiskt angrepp på civila för att ingjuta rädsla för politiska syften.”Med politiska syften avser han även ideologiska och religiösa motiv. 11 september-attackerna faller inom denna definition. Det var en medveten attack på civila. Den var religiöst motiverat och den ingöt mycket rädsla. Det är svårt att säga om motivet var att ingjuta rädsla eller om det var att åstadkomma en politisk förändring i USA:s politik. Kanske är det en svaghet med definitionen att den är oklar, men den innehåller den centrala idén att den verkliga måltavlan inte är den direkta, det vill säga de civila som attackeras direkt inte är de egentliga målen. Det är kanske det som är så fruktansvärt med terrorism. De dödade eller skadade bara är medel för något annat mål som är politiskt eller religiöst.Filosofer har främst fastnat för två frågor när det gäller terrorism: dels hur den ska definieras, dels om den under vissa omständigheter går att rättfärdiga. Nästan alla verkar dock överens om att det senare inte är möjligt, just på grund av att det förutsätts att offren är civila. Som i den australiensiske filosofen Tony Codys inflytelserika definition där terrorism beskrivs som ”en organiserad användning av våld för att angripa icke-stridande eller deras egendom för politiska ändamål.” Med ”icke-stridande” menas personer som inte deltar i själva konflikten och sålunda är oskyldiga.Ett av skälen till att detta betonas är att terrorism inte bara är något som riktas emot demokratier som Netanyahu hävdar utan också förekommer i krig och även kan begås av stater. Vanliga exempel i diskussionen är de allierades terrorbombningar av Tyskland, framför allt Dresden, under andra världskriget, eller atombomben över Nagasaki. Enligt många filosofer exempel på statsterrorism.I mitten av 2020-talet, i samband med den intensiva diskussionen om huruvida den laddade termen folkmord beskrev Israels agerande i Gaza, fanns alltså redan ett annat begrepp som i etablerade definitioner mer än väl kunde förklara allvaret i handlingarna: Terrorism. Som jag tolkar skeendet faller det under Codys definition, men kanske rent av under Netanyahus egen.Henrik Lagerlundprofessor i filosofiLitteraturBenjamin Netanyahu: Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorists. Farrar, Strauss & Giroux, 2005. (Reviderad upplaga efter 11 september).C.A.J. Coady: The Meaning of Terrorism. Oxford University Press, 2021.

It turns out that the count of our mayors has been off by one, dating back to when the city had a population of just 2,500 — meaning the mayor-elect will be New York's 112th mayor, though still the 111th person to serve. FAQ NYC hosts Christina Greer, Katie Honan and Harry Siegel discuss that breaking 17th Century news, as reported by Eliabeth Kim at Gothamist, and much more, including Julie Menin's early Speaker win and the World Trade Center-related death this week of a retired deputy chief who lost a son on 9/11. This episode was engineered by Noah Smith.

Jofi, Petrina och och Armann snackar om träslöjd i en hyresrätt, SVT:s självhat när dom spoilar sina egna program, stockholmares kärlek för matförgiftning och hemlöshet, den egentliga anledningen att World Trade Center-tornen föll, terrorplanerna mot Eurovision, och skuggsamhället som är Leos Lekland. Och säkert en massa annat. Världens ballaste ståuppklubb som kör varannan onsdag i Malmö heter UNDER JORD och alla biljetter denna säsongen är slutsålda! Men du bör ändå besöka toppensajten http://underjord.nu! Jofi, eller Johannes Finnlaugsson om man ska vara formellt, gör sin årkrönika i form av lide ball ståupp, ÅRET ÄR 2025, i olika städer! Närmare bestämt dessa: onsdag 3/12: KRISTIANSTAD fredag 5/12: JÖNKÖPING fredag 12/12: STOCKHOLM onsdag 17/12: VÄXJÖ fredag 19/12: HALMSTAD lördag 20/12: GÖTEBORG fredag 26/12: MALMÖ slutsåld fredag 27/12: MALMÖ slutsåld lördag 3/1: UMEÅ söndag 4/1: UPPSALA fredag 9/1: Malmö Extra Extra! Biljetter till detta köper du på https://underjord.nu/biljetter/aret-ar-2025/ och du gör det nu! Håll koll på grejer Petrina gör och köp biljetter till One Night Standup på http://petrina.se Armann är med på scen när Henrik Möller visar upp sina censurerade filmer på Plan B i Malmö den 13 december! Det finns ingen biljettlänk, bara cash i dörren som gäller. Stötta podden på http://patreon.com/mandag så är du bäst!

Biopunk før biopunk var cool “Where small things make big changes.” Sådan præsenterer biotech virksomheden Genetron sig på bogens første side. Genetron forsker i chips baseret på biologi. Hos Genetron møder vi Vergil Ulam, en forsker med genialt talent og mildt sagt elendig dømmekraft. Og da hans chefer opdager, at han bryder alle sikkerhedsprotokoller, og fyringen hænger over hovedet, tager han en drastisk beslutning. Hans forsøg med noocytter – intelligente, lymfocyt-baserede mikromaskiner har skabt helt nye utrolige resultater. Og for at redde sin forskning injicerer han dem i sig selv. Det indre univers: Noocytternes stemmer “A mother should name her offspring, shouldn't she?” Noget af det, der virkelig fangede os, er øjeblikket hvor noocytterne begynder at tale. Det er både dybt creepy og fascinerende. Der er noget sært poetisk over de små væsner, som på én gang er logiske, naive og filosofiske. De spørger ind til kroppen, til verden, til Vergil, og til hvad det betyder at være noget. Om forfatteren: Greg Bear Bear slog igennem i 80'erne og 90'erne, hvor han var med til at definere en særlig gren af sci-fi, der mikser videnskabelig nørderi med eksistentiel undren. Blood Music fra 1985 er det klareste eksempel: en historie, der starter med en enkelt forskers dårlige idéer og ender med en slags kosmisk metamorfose. Han stod også bag Darwin's Radio og Darwin's Children, der begge undersøger menneskelig evolution gennem bioteknologiske briller, samt klassikere som The Forge of God, Eon og The Way-serien. Og som om det ikke var nok, var han også med til at grundlægge San Diego Comic-Con. USA som biologisk superorganisme Efter at Noocytterne har hygget til i Vergil i en periode er de klar til at bryde ud som en virus, der spreder sig over hele Midtvejs i romanen vælter det hele over i stor-skala biomassevisdom. Her fornemmer man at Blood Music har været inspirationen for værker som Annihilation, The Expanse og alt det organiske weird, der kom mange år senere. Særligt en flyveturen over USA er skrevet som en mareridtsdokumentar, hvor vi med reporteren oplever et USA, forvandlet til en kontinentstørrelse organisme, der pulserer i sin egen rytme. Suzy's Choice: mellem individ og kollektiv Romanens følelsesmæssige centrum ligger hos Suzy, en ung overlevende, der stadig er uinficeret, men fanget midt i den omformede verden. På toppen af World Trade Center konfronteres hun med valget mellem at forblive et selvstændigt individ – sårbar, alene – eller lade sig absorbere af det enorme, kollektive sind, som noocytterne har skabt, hvor hendes transformerede mor og brødre nu inviterer hende . Scenen er både tragisk og smuk: en konfrontation med spørgsmålet om, hvorvidt bevidsthedens fremtid ligger i individet eller fællesskabet. Blood Music leger ikke bare med sci-fi-idéer – den rammer også de store spørgsmål om hvad individualitet egentlig betyder. Vurdering Blood Music er idérig og til tider helt fantastisk, men også med en tendens til at henfalde i tung biotech-babble med for mange bipersoner, der forsvinder igen. Vildt original, biopunket og undertiden decideret visionær. Læs for at få en tidlig oplevelse af transhuman scifi med biologisk body horror i ascendanten. Jens og Anders har SCIFI SNAKKET Blood Music. Jens: ⭐⭐⭐Anders: ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Shownotes Siden sidst Anders har læst og set: Chuck Tingle – Lucky Day Ian McEwan – What We Can Know : Smuk, næsten kirurgisk præcis clifi om erkendelse og klima. Ken Liu – All That We See or Seem: En cyberpunket sag i Doctorow-stilen. PLURIBUS (Apple TV) : Er lige startet den virker lovende! Jens' læse- og se-sidst-runde: PLURIBUS : Samme reaktion som Anders: fascination blandet med udbredt frygt for menneskehedens fremtid. Jane Mondrup – Zoi : Zoi af Jane Mondrup. Sådan en helt Stanislav Lemsk fortælling, hvor vi er med astronauter ombord på en interstellart rejsende biologisk entitet. Faktisk superfed. Jeg gav den en firer. Fuld af gode ideer! Lytterfeedback Det vælter som altid ind med kærlige skub, anbefalinger og lettere genrebashing. Kåre gav os endnu en lille opsang for vores “snævre” genrekonventioner, fordi vi sagde nej til The Libraries of Mount Char. Til gengæld anbefalede han Christopher Priest – Henning fremhævede især Inverted World, som han mente var obligatorisk almendannelse. Majbrit opfordrede: Hold nu fast i de nyere titler! Så hun kan opdage nyere forfatterskaber sammen med os. Christian bragte gode nyheder fra Bogforum, hvor hans paneldebat om dystopier tiltrak hele 200 publikummer. Diskussionen tog udgangspunkt i Sort Storm, Det døde land og hans egen Pandora-serie – hvilket beviser, at dansk sci-fi har det temmelig glimrende. Næste gang læser vi Olaf Stapledon – Star MakerEn af de helt store, kosmiske klassikere. Universets historie, guddommelig evolution og filosofisk sci-fi på højeste blus. Vi glæder os allerede til at gå i kredsløb om den.

Ważne słowa często docierają do nas w momentach granicznych. W przywołanej historii strażak przeszukujący ruiny po ataku na World Trade Center odnajduje fragment Biblii stopiony z metalem – z przesłaniem „oko za oko… a ja wam powiadam: nie stawiajcie oporu złemu”. Ten obraz „słowa z ruin” staje się metaforą dla czasu, w którym żyjemy: świata pełnego wstrząsów, w którym łatwo przeoczyć to, co najistotniejsze. Adwent, rozpoczynający nowy rok liturgiczny, tradycyjnie kojarzy się z oczekiwaniem – i właśnie o jakości tego oczekiwania jest ta opowieść.Opowiem dziś kilka historii o tym, jak łatwo przegapić ostrzeżenia. Generał, który nie przeczytał listu wywiadu, bo wciągnęła go gra w karty, stracił życie i bitwę – choć ratunek miał dosłownie „w kieszeni”. Podobny mechanizm pokazuje baśń Andersena: Gerda, zatrzymana w przytulnym domku, niemal porzuca swoją misję. Nie trzeba „wielkich czarów”, by uśpić czujność; wystarczą drobne wygody, rutyna i rozproszenia. W dobrobycie łatwo zapomnieć o głębszych tęsknotach i celach – i nieprzypadkowo historia zna praktyki, które znieczulały społeczeństwa, zamiast je budzić.Te historie nie są tylko ciekawostką. One składają się w jedno, bardzo mocne pytanie:Czy ja przypadkiem nie żyję tak, jakby ostrzeżenia Boga mnie nie dotyczyły?Mówię wprost o duchowej krótkowzroczności – gdy widzimy tylko to, co blisko: wygodę, komfort, przyjemności, sukcesy… „Świat usypia nas wygodą, a Bóg budzi nas Słowem.”

Temple Dedication  Bahia Blanca Argentina Temple – #211 Dedicated November 23, 2025 by Ulisses Soares Dedicatory Prayer 5th Temple in Argentina, furthest south 12 Stakes and 4 Districts assigned to temple district Temple Open Houses Burley Idaho Temple Interior Photos Released Motifs include sugar beet and potato blossoms, trembling blue skies and farm fields Attended by Idaho Governor Brad Little Alabang Philippines Temple Interior Photos Released Motif of the white jasmine flower, or sampaguita, the national flower of the Philippines Why Photoshop the high rise buildings out? Compare Media Tour on November 17th 2nd Temple in the Manila Metro area, located in Filinvest Corporate City, Alabang, Muntinlupa City Announced by President Monson in 2017 Temple Dedication and Open House Scheduled Willamette Valley Oregon Temple Open House schedules for April 23, 2026 to May 9th  Dedication on June 7th presided by Dieter Uchtdorf 5th dedication scheduled for 2026 Temple Groundbreakings Brussels Belgium Temple “Site Dedication” held on November 22nd Presided by Jack N Gerard Golden Shovels? Why not Golden Sledge Hammers? At Least they didn't bring in dirt Appears to be an updated Rendering  Embossed on the Shovels  Possibly replacing the World Trade Center wishbone grilles Jacksonville Florida Temple  Announced for January 24, 2025 To be presided by Massimo De Feo Temple Sites Announced, Rendering Released  Coeur d’Alene Idaho Temple 11 acres located on the corner of Hanley Avenue and Coeur Terre Boulevard on the western side of Coeur d’Alene Single Story, 29,630 sq ft temple White Granite, copper roof and spire Inspired by the St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans?  Calabar Nigeria Temple 7 acres along Atekong Drive in central Calabar Single story, 26,000 sq ft temple White concrete, sky blue spire Yuma Arizona Temple 7 acres located at the corner of East 36th Street and South 8 East Avenue in the City of Yuma Single story, 18,500 sq ft temple Sand colored, topped by a Cupula  Similar cupola to temples in San Juan, Praia, Coban Construction Updates Salt Lake Temple Hanging Chandeliers in Sealing rooms and Assembly Hall Plaza Hotel Prepares for demolition  The Roof fine dining restaurant reopening Adalaide Australia Temple Extended Maintenance Closure  To reopen in May 2026 Construction Visitors Centers set up  Austin Texas Temple Vancouver Washington Temple Tacloban Philippines Temple Deseret Peak Utah Temple Wins construction award of merit Christmas Season  Manila Philippines Temple Mesa Arizona Temple St George Visitors Center home to a “Believe in Him” art exhibit The post We Have Jumped the Temple Shark – Temple Ticker 989 appeared first on The Cultural Hall Podcast.

This week's edition is guest-focused. Paul Berriff OBE, has lived a life few could imagine. A filmmaker and photographer whose work spans more than 180 prime-time documentaries, he has survived a helicopter crash, escaped a sinking ship in a North Sea storm, crawled from the wreckage of a downed aircraft, and lived through the collapse of both towers on September 11 while filming inside the disaster zone. His tape from that day remains one of the most important visual records of the south tower falling. Before film came photography. In the 1960s, Paul made remarkably natural portraits of The Beatles and the Rolling Stones, long before fame turned them into myth. Later, with what he called a "clockwork camera," he moved into observational documentary and eventually built his own production company. Alongside all this, he trained as a firefighter and helped carry out more than 850 RNLI sea rescues. The conversation moved differently from how I imagined it might. Two major stories emerged. One is his account of filming inside the World Trade Center as the towers came down, surviving when the buildings collapsed around him. The other is the story of a rescue by helicopter in brutal conditions, a moment when a second narrow escape became part of his history. I'll also share a little more about the craft of photogravure that we'll be exploring on the new Scottish retreat in June. There's a reminder of this month's assignment, the last one of the year, before we shift our focus to THE ONE in December. Links to all guests and features will be on the show page, my sincere thanks to our Extra Milers, without whom we wouldn't be walking each week and Arthelper.ai, giving photographers smart tools to plan, promote, and manage your creative projects more easily. WHY: A Sketchbook of Life is available here.

Today on the Giant Ideas podcast we welcome visionary architect Bjarke Ingels, founder of BIG (Bjarke Ingels Group), whose work includes Google's Silicon Valley campus, the Danish Maritime Museum, and 2 World Trade Center. In this episode, Bjarke shares his philosophy of “utopian pragmatism,” the inseparable link between form and function in architecture, and his thoughts on why architecture matters.Bjarke also discusses collaborations with fellow visionary Thomas Heatherwick, the economic and societal forces shaping our built environment. We discuss his ambitious “Mindfulness City” project in Bhutan, his concept of “hedonic sustainability”: designing cities and spaces that are irresistible and joyful.Tune in for a fascinating exploration of how architecture can shape a better world, insight into the Danish approach to design and sustainability, and why balancing contradictions is needed more than ever.Building a purpose driven company? Read more about Giant Ventures at www.Giant.vc.Music credits: Bubble King written and produced by Cameron McLain and Stevan Cablayan aka Vector_XING. Please note: The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. It should not be considered financial, legal, or investment advice. Always consult a licensed professional before making any investment decisions.

As Treasury Secretary, former Federal Reserve Chairwoman and Chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, Janet Yellen is one the most powerful woman in American economic history. Award-winning economics writer and author Jon Hilsenrath joins with insights about her life and work from his book, Yellen: The Trailblazing Economist Who Navigated an Era of Upheaval. He shares how she navigated the sexism in her industry and in politics, her unconventional partnership in marriage and work with Nobel Laureate George Akerlof and why she didn't always "lean in."More about Jon Hilsenrath: He is a senior writer for the Wall Street Journal, where he has been since 1997, reporting from Hong Kong, New York, and Washington, DC. He was a Pulitzer Prize finalist in 2014 for his coverage of the Federal Reserve; part of a team of 2009 Pulitzer finalists for coverage of the global financial crisis; and contributed on-the-scene reporting from the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, which helped the WSJ win a Pulitzer in 2002. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Step into an extraordinary journey with Colin Egglesfield, a multi-hyphenate creator who has built a global career by refusing to follow a straight path. After taking the MCAT, he made a radical pivot into modeling before breaking into Hollywood with a contract role on All My Children. Along the way he survived multiple life-altering setbacks, including multiple bouts of cancer and living through the World Trade Center tragedy, which reshaped his entire outlook on purpose and possibility. Colin opens up about the intense pressures of Hollywood including being unexpectedly killed off a show, being told he looked "too much like Tom Cruise" in an audition, and how he overcame debilitating stage fright through unconventional acting exercises. You don't want to miss how he booked Something Borrowed after five rounds of auditions, including how he wrote his Oscar acceptance speech before the final audition. These are the unforgettable stories that landed Colin Egglesfield right here. Credits: Something Borrowed All My Children The Client List Rizzoli & Isles Melrose Place Autumn Dreams Chicago Fire Lucifer UnReal Bad Moms Bad Teacher Charmed Gilmore Girls Guest Links: IMDB: Colin Egglesfield, Actor, Producer Connect with That One Audition: THE BRIDGE FOR ACTORS: Black Friday 50% Become a WORKING ACTOR THE PRACTICE TRACK: Membership to Practice Weekly CONSULTING: Get 1-on-1 advice for your acting career from Alyshia Ochse COACHING: Get personalized coaching from Alyshia on your next audition or role INSTAGRAM: @alyshiaochse INSTAGRAM: @thatoneaudition WEBSITE: AlyshiaOchse.com APPLE PODCASTS: Subscribe to That One Audition on Apple Podcasts SPOTIFY: Subscribe to That One Audition on Spotify STITCHER: Subscribe to That One Audition on Stitcher Subscribe today and be part of a community that celebrates resilience and passion in the world of acting!

Young people today face noise, pressure and expectations that can drown out who they really are. I have met many who feel unsure of their path, and I believe this is one of the most important conversations we can have. In this episode, I sit with youth coach Hillary Spiritos, someone who has walked her own winding path from fearless child, to shy young adult, to a coach helping others reconnect with their inner voice. Her honesty about the old messages she carried and the ways she learned to trust herself again offers a lesson for all of us, no matter our age. Hillary and I talk about what young adults face today, why so many feel lost and how simple daily choices can move us away from fear and toward clarity. You will hear how she helps people uncover what they value, build resilience and create a life that feels true. I think you will find this conversation grounding and hopeful. My hope is that it reminds you, just as it reminded me, that we all have the ability to step forward with purpose and live with an Unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:10 – Learn how early life messages shape confidence and identity.01:27 – See why many young adults step back from who they really are.02:54 – Understand how internal stories influence your choices.03:55 – Hear how changing environments helps you discover new parts of yourself.13:42 – Learn how young adults navigate both opportunity and uncertainty.15:36 – Understand why modern pressures make clarity harder to find.19:00 – Discover why resilience begins with facing normal challenges.23:25 – Learn how redefining success opens space for authentic living.25:20 – See how guided reflection builds direction and self trust.39:57 – Discover tools that help you quiet the noise and listen inward. About the Guest: Hillary Spiritos, founder of Bat Outta Hell, is a pathfinding coach dedicated to helping young adults pursue the lives they envision by building self-trust and discovering their potential. She conducts workshops on essential life skills such as leadership development, interviewing, resilience, and maximizing your study abroad experience. Through her coaching, Hillary empowers young adults to navigate social media noise and societal pressures, encouraging them to listen to their inner voice and achieve their unique personal and professional goals. This process helps clients identify their values, overcome obstacles, and embrace their fears, ultimately leading to a fulfilling and authentic life. As a certified pathfinding coach, she offers her clients that unique in-between space to create and execute their life road map. Hillary brings years of experience as an Academic Advisor at NYU and Northeastern University, as well as a background in the corporate sector, both as an employee and freelancer. Ways to connect with Hillary**:** https://batouttahell.net/ https://www.tiktok.com/@bat.outta_hell https://www.linkedin.com/in/hillaryspiritos/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:21 Well, hi everyone, wherever you happen to be today, I would like to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and I am your host, Michael hingson, or you can call me Mike, one of those two, no other kind of words, just Mike or Michael. But we're glad you're here, whether you're watching, listening or doing both. And our guest today is a coach. She especially does a lot in coaching and working with youth, young people, and I'm really interested to learn more about that as we go forward. I think it'll be kind of fun. So I would like to welcome Hillary Spiritos to unstoppable mindset, Hillary, we're glad you're here. Thanks for coming. Hillary Spiritos  02:02 Hi, thank you so much for having me. Mike. It's a pleasure to be with you. Michael Hingson  02:06 Well, I think it's a pleasure to be with you too, so I guess it works out both ways, right? Wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for being here. Why don't we start as I love to do, let's start at the beginning. Tell us sort of about the early Hillary, growing up and all that. Since you know you're dealing with youth and and all that, you were one once. So let's, let's hear about you. Hillary Spiritos  02:29 I was one once, absolutely. So I was a really fearless child. I had a really, like, wild fashion sense. I asked a lot of questions. I was pretty independent. I like to stay in my room and like play with my imagination and and then as I got older, I got a little bit shyer. I got a little bit behind the scenes. I started to I started to back away a little bit and kind of lose touch with who I was. And then I have finally, like when I was in my when I was in university, I really just decided that I didn't really know what I wanted to do, what I wanted to study what I was interested in, and it's been a process to kind of live my fullest, most authentic life, and that is what I want to help young people do. Michael Hingson  03:29 Why did you back away? Why did you become kind of, maybe less outgoing or less adventuresome, if you will? Hillary Spiritos  03:38 I think you know there are multiple reasons for this puberty is not like the least of which, but I would say that I'm a big believer that we are taught these messages when we're younger as children, and they get internalized. And I think I internalized messages that were to make myself smaller, to not cause waves, to just not be as big of a presence, perhaps. And so I you have to kind of rewire that. You have to break free from that, and then you can decide, actually, I'm not at the mercy of these stories that I've been told in these messages that I've gotten. Now, Michael Hingson  04:23 where are you from? Hillary Spiritos  04:24 I'm from New York City. Okay, Michael Hingson  04:27 yeah. Well, you know, New York is a tough place, so you can certainly learn to be outgoing and active there. But I hear what you're saying, yeah. Now, where are you now? Hillary Spiritos  04:39 I live in London, England, Michael Hingson  04:41 okay, yes, a little ways from New York, Hillary Spiritos  04:45 absolutely. But actually not as far as you might Michael Hingson  04:48 think, no, it's only, what a five hour airplane flight, right? Hillary Spiritos  04:53 But it's, it's actually shorter than going to California, yeah? Michael Hingson  04:58 So, yeah. You know well, but what took you to London? Hillary Spiritos  05:06 I have always wanted to live in London, and I really love the arts and culture and comedy scene here. I also am a deep, deep lover of travel, and obviously living on the continent of Europe, just gives me more opportunity to travel in that way and over the weekend, you know. And I also just am a deep believer in international education, study abroad, the ability to have cross cultural experiences, to learn more about yourself and your place in the world and the world itself through experiencing your life and yourself in a different Michael Hingson  05:46 place. Do you have a car, or do you just use the tube and public transportation? I Hillary Spiritos  05:52 use the tube and public transportation mostly. I mean, the thing about Europe is that it's really well connected over train. Michael Hingson  05:59 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that that makes a big difference, because you can get wherever you want to go around Europe fairly easily by train, sure, absolutely, certainly, a lot easier than getting around most places in in the States. Hillary Spiritos  06:19 Yeah, that's that can be true, though. I mean, there is an ease to a car Absolutely, and there's like a lovely I can blast my music and be with my thoughts and be in my own space that a car brings you that the train doesn't, Michael Hingson  06:34 yeah, well, or you use earphones, but it's still not the same. Hillary Spiritos  06:39 Yeah, I have a lot of clients and students who are perhaps in places that they don't have their car, and they find that their car is their safe space, and the space where they can vent and listen to music and just be alone and and they feel fine that they really miss their car. So it's I mean, but I also grew up in New York City, so I, I, it's not a part of my it's not a part of my existence, really. Michael Hingson  07:06 Yeah, you're used to not having a car pretty much. I had a friend when I lived in in Winthrop, Massachusetts for three years. I had a friend. We both worked at the same company, and his philosophy was, buy a car, but don't get anything fancy. Just get a clunker. And when it dies, just leave it and go off and buy another one. And so he never did get any kind of a really high end car. And he had a couple where they died, and he just left them or got got them taken away, and then he went off and got a new Hillary Spiritos  07:43 car. Sure, I guess it's really just what you value. Yeah, absolutely. Michael Hingson  07:50 Well, I'm pretty used to having access to a lot of public transportation. Unfortunately, where I live here in California, we don't have a lot where I live anyway, of great transportation, but I remember living in the east, and of course, there was a lot more train access around New York, around Boston and around Washington, DC, for that matter, compared To out here, absolutely well. So where did you go to college? Hillary Spiritos  08:24 I went. I got my undergraduate degree at Duke University, and then I got my master's in international education at NYU. Michael Hingson  08:33 Okay, and so what was your Bachelor's Hillary Spiritos  08:37 in theater and comparative religion? Michael Hingson  08:41 That's a little different than international education. What prompted you to Hillary Spiritos  08:44 switch? Yeah, so that's a great question. So I actually changed my major in my junior year of college because I didn't believe that anyone would be accepting of me majoring in theater and comparative religion as two separate things, and I didn't think it was good enough, and I had all these judgments again from messaging that I received as a young person, and I finally decided that I wasn't going to listen to that. So I changed my major, and I actually worked in the theater and live events production for five or six years after college, and loved it, but I found that it wasn't fulfilling in the way that I wanted my work to be. It wasn't as soul feeding as I wanted my work to be. And I realized that I was an RA at Duke University, and I I just truly loved working with young adults and helping them find their path and figure out what they wanted to do with their life and who they were and what they valued and and so I found that I really wanted to be in the world of higher education, so I went and got my master's. Michael Hingson  09:49 But you didn't do that right out of getting a bachelor's. It was a little bit later. Hillary Spiritos  09:53 Yeah, it was about five or six years later. Wow. Michael Hingson  09:55 So what did you do for the theater while you were working? Hillary Spiritos  09:58 I. Yeah, I was a stage manager in the theater, and then I was a Live Events Producer, so concerts, festivals, movie premieres, anything like that. I helped Michael Hingson  10:11 produce. Did you do a lot of that around New York? Hillary Spiritos  10:15 Yeah, so New York, LA, I also worked in Boston, actually, both as in the theater, as well as at a university in Boston after I had gotten my masters. So yeah, Michael Hingson  10:29 I always enjoyed going to Broadway shows. There's, there's nothing like live theater. I agree. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just a totally different kind of environment, and it's so much more fun than watching a movie or whatever, the sound is different and better and just the whole performance. There's nothing like seeing something on the stage. Yeah? Hillary Spiritos  10:54 I mean, I think it's all about To each their own. Right? There are actors and people who find that movies have changed their lives and and I definitely have movies that I watch over and over again for comfort, same with TV shows. But for me, personally, the theater, there's nothing like live theater. Live theater is like energizing for me, and if I go too long without seeing it, I get a little Michael Hingson  11:18 Yeah, well, you're in a in a town that has a fair amount Hillary Spiritos  11:22 of theater? Absolutely, yes. Michael Hingson  11:25 So what are your favorite movies? Oh, oh. Hillary Spiritos  11:30 I mean, I guess it depends on what genre we're talking about. But I really love the genre of, like, inspirational sports movies. I that also I remember watching all of those and just really resonating with the character of the coach and realizing that that's kind of who I wanted to be in life, that person who recognized the potential and helped everybody reach their potential. So I loved, you know, the Karate Kid and Mighty Ducks and, like the replacements and strictly ballroom and and miracle and, you know, any Rocky, Michael Hingson  12:10 you name it, yeah, A League of Their Own. Hillary Spiritos  12:14 Oh, League of Their Own is incredible. Michael Hingson  12:16 Absolutely, yeah, I always like the league of their own. Yeah, Hillary Spiritos  12:19 the natural is also a great fact be the natural. Michael Hingson  12:22 And I read the book long after seeing the movie, but I, but I read the book, and that was worth reading as well. Hillary Spiritos  12:32 I think I've also read it, but I'm not, I can't. Michael Hingson  12:38 Yeah, it's been a long time since since I've read it, but it was fun. I don't know my probably one of my favorite movies, and I love to quote it all the time. Goes away from sports. It's Young Frankenstein, but I'm a Mel Brooks fan. So what can I say? Oh yeah. Hillary Spiritos  12:55 Oh yeah. I mean, that's an incredible film, too. And I would say I love a lot of movies that are not inspirational sports movies as well, but yeah for sure, Michael Hingson  13:03 yeah, and I've always liked Casablanca. That's still one of my favorite movies of all time. Hillary Spiritos  13:09 Classic, absolutely, Michael Hingson  13:11 a classic, absolutely yes. But there's still nothing like going to see things on Broadway. You know, I used to see, I watched Damn Yankees the movie, and then when I lived back in the east, we got to see Damn Yankees on Broadway. I actually saw it twice. The second time was with Jerry Lewis playing Mr. Applegate, the devil, and it was the only thing he ever did on Broadway. And we, before we went to see it, there was a my wife read an interview with him, and he said his father had told him, you won't have really ever arrived in entertainment until you do something on Broadway. Well, he did a great job in the play. It was well worth seeing. Hillary Spiritos  14:00 Well, yeah, I mean that that's a challenging statement for sure. And I think it depends how you how he took that right, but that can also be very disheartening, Michael Hingson  14:11 yeah, yeah, well, he took it, he took it the right way. And, and, you know, he, I think he thought his dad was, was hoping his dad was watching from wherever his dad was and saw him on Broadway, but Broadway plays are fun, and I've seen a number on Broadway, and I've seen some plays not on Broadway, but still, people did a great job well. So you anyway, you did theater, and then you went back and got your master's degree, and you wanted to deal with young people. Why? Specifically just young people? Hillary Spiritos  14:50 I think that young adults are exist in such an incredible but volatile space. So like throughout life, we go through on this track of all pretty much doing the same things at the same time, at the same pace with everybody else. And then when we meet or when we get to university, there just becomes so many more paths, and paths start to diverge, and everyone starts to get a little bit mixed up, and then once you're out of university, then that happens even more, and that can be a period of incredible opportunity and possibility and excitement, but it can also be a time of really a lot of anxiety and challenges and obstacles and fear of the unknown, and I think that that is a really exciting, interesting, dynamic place to be. I also just love the ethos of young people, of I'm not going to take that this is the way it's always been done, mentality. I'm not going to just let whatever is going on in the world wash over me. I'm going to actually take a stand. I'm I'm going to stand for what I believe in. And I think that's just a really, I mean, there are some real fierce young people out here, out here, and so that's really uplifting and really motivating and energizing to see. Michael Hingson  16:18 Do you think that it's different now than it was, say, 30 or 40 years ago, in terms of dealing with youth and young people in terms of what they face and how they face it. Has it? Has it changed much? Or do you think it's really basically the same? And of course, the other logical question is, Is it easier or harder now? Hillary Spiritos  16:39 Absolutely, so I think that it is absolutely part of the human condition to try to figure out who you are and what you want, and that is something that young people are constantly dealing with at every generation. So that's absolutely true, but I do believe that there are certain things that make it harder for this generation, the Gen Z and Millennial like cohort, I think that whether that's the covid pandemic, social media, helicopter or lawn mower, snow plow, parenting, whatever you want to call it, that just this general state of the world, there are all of These structures and systems in place that are crumbling and broken, that young adults are having to get a grip and understand and find their feet in a world that is constantly shifting and and not meeting their needs. So I think it is definitely, I mean, harder is challenging to rank, right? Because, like, obviously, there are very hard challenges in various generations, but I do think it is very different. Michael Hingson  17:49 Well, you know, in 1917, 18, we had the pandemic of the flu. So it's not like this is the first time we've ever had that, but sure, it just seems to me, with everything that's going on today, with with social media, with instantaneous communications and so on, and probably other things where a number of people are raised in fear oriented environments, it is definitely a lot more challenging to be a youth growing up today. They're just too many challenges, much less you mentioned helicopter and other kinds of parents, I would assume that they're operating more out of fear than anything else, which is why they do what they do. Hillary Spiritos  18:36 Well, that's interesting. I think they absolutely could be operating out of fear, and they can be operating out of the I want you to reach this echelon. I want you to do this thing, have this job, so that you will be secure and safe. However, we know that that's not a given, right? There's no such thing as security in that way. But I would also say there's a way to be operating out of a projection of what they wish that they lived, and they're passing that along to their children as well. So there are various ways that it can manifest Michael Hingson  19:12 that's probably been somewhat true though, through most generations, although it may be a little bit more the case now, because there's so many outside forces, and they want to keep their kids from having to put up with all of that. Hillary Spiritos  19:23 Yeah, I would also say that their parenting used to be a little bit more hands off, and it is now. Let me remove the obstacles from my children's lives and let me and that's a generalization. Obviously, not all parents are like that, but there is a big push to let me make it somewhat easier, and that's not to say don't support your children, and that's not to say don't help them out. That's not to you know, but in removing all the obstacles, young people aren't given the opportunity to build. Of the self reliance and the resilience and the self trust that they need to move forward, Michael Hingson  20:05 yeah, and it may ultimately come down to, how many of the obstacles are you really removing, but? But that is true, that they make it they think easier. But the reality is, there are reasons why we all have to go through different situations to learn Hillary Spiritos  20:26 Sure, absolutely, I think if you, if you don't develop resilience or self reliance or grit, I think that that is, that is going to be a very challenging life until you learn to really develop those traits, those skills, tools, Michael Hingson  20:46 I know for students with disabilities. And this goes back 50 years. I know here in California, a number of the colleges and universities started hiring people to run offices for students with disabilities, and they would come in and Oh, we'll get we'll, we'll, we'll make sure you have your textbooks, we'll make sure you have a place to take your tests. And they do any number of things for students that some of us who grew up a little bit before those offices realized that the offices were were really creating more of a problem than a great solution, because they did everything for students, rather than students learning to do things for themselves. Students didn't learn how to hire people to read information for them, or how to go to professors and advocate for what they needed, because they just relied on the offices. And the offices would say, well, students don't know how to do those things, yeah, and they never will. It's the same, it's the same kind of concept. But you know, the reality is that there is a reason why there is value in having challenges put before you to overcome and deal with Hillary Spiritos  22:07 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it helps you recognize what you're capable of, and it also helps you realize that you have been through maybe something difficult previously, or you've gone outside of your comfort zone or tried something new or whatever, there's precedence there that you can do something like that again, and if you don't have those experiences, then you are unsure. I mean, I have clients who have not built up these experiences, or they don't recognize the experiences that they've had, and that's part of the work that we do, is that then they just feel so unprepared to go out in the world because they don't know what they're made of. Michael Hingson  22:47 Yeah, yeah. And it is, it is a real challenge. And you know, the other part about it is that what referring back to the offices for students with disabilities, what the offices should be doing, is encouraging students to to do the work, and then saying, this is what, what I actually went through, and then actually saying, if you have a problem and you can't get the things that you know you need to have, will help you. We will. We will bring the resources of the university to, for example, to to bear, to get you what you need. But you have to be the one to initiate it. And I think that's the issue. Hillary Spiritos  23:32 Sure, absolutely, it's it's it's the it's the asking questions without trying to figure out what the answer is yourself, or trying to find the answer yourself. And I think that can be manifest in many ways, and I think that that is also indicative of like a larger of a larger system, which is not being able to trust that you can figure it out, not being able to trust that you have the answer or that you can, like, trust your inner voice or your gut, and so you look outward and that so it can be part of a task, but it can also just be. It can manifest in your just general life. Speaker 1  24:14 Yeah. So what does redefining success mean today for young people, and how do they separate their goals from what society expects them to do, or societal expectations? Hillary Spiritos  24:28 Yeah, absolutely. So, as I kind of alluded to before, is that we learn these definitions. We learn these we have these messaging from when we were younger, and we learn what success means, what failure means, what courage is, and we start to internalize what we think other people will see as acceptable or good enough. And what we need to do is unpack that and. Try to redefine success and failure and all the rest of it for ourselves so that we can live our own lives and not be at the mercy of our prior messaging, childhood wounds of our parents, hopes and dreams and fears, perhaps what people of people in society might deem as not good enough, or not interesting, or whatever we want to live according to what we think we value. And so that would that's what redefining success means. Speaker 1  25:32 How do you teach people how to redefine success? You you have a coaching process that I assume that you use. So what is that? How does all that work? Hillary Spiritos  25:42 Yeah, so it's a three month process, and it's called aligned and alive. And the first month is helping young adults really get to the root of who they really are, what they really value, and what they really want their life to look like. And it is going deep, and it is being honest and answering those questions outside of societal expectations, and cutting through the noise to the best of their ability. And then the second month is really honing in on what is blocking you from going after the life you want, from imagining the life you want to create, and creating the life you imagine. And then the third month is reevaluating those what we those of things that we talked about in the first month, so who you really are, what you really value, and what you really want your life to look like. These things probably have changed over the course of this time, as you've kind of uncovered new aspects of yourself, and then we create an actionable strategic plan so that you're not just going off into the world unprepared and feeling unprepared to kind of take the next step. And there are absolutely follow up calls to just make sure that you feel the most secure and that you if you have any questions or kind of feel like you want to check in, that's absolutely acceptable and possible and hope like I hope you will and we will set up. And there are also people who don't work on this three month platform, but they also just meet with me regularly. So it's it depends on what you're looking for. This isn't a one size fits all situation. Michael Hingson  27:24 Yeah, what? Which makes sense? It it shouldn't be a one size fits all because everyone is a little bit different. Needless to say, absolutely. So I didn't mention it before, but we should talk about what is the name of your company? Hillary Spiritos  27:39 So the name of my company is called bat out of hell. There you go. Michael Hingson  27:44 See how did you come up with that? It's I think it's great. Hillary Spiritos  27:48 Thank you. I really love and have a kinship with bats. I think that bats are highly adaptable, perceptive, social creatures, and they spend a lot of their time upside down, so they see the world in a different perspective, and they symbolize transformation and rebirth and the shedding of the old to come into the new and out of the darkness and into the light, all of which I really resonate with and want the energy of the business. And then I also am not a one size fits all cookie cutter coach, let alone person. And I, and I wanted a name that kind of had that ethos, had that a bit of rock and roll in it, if you will. And so, yeah, I feel like it's has real momentum to it, and a real edge, which is great. Michael Hingson  28:44 And so you, of course, feel a great kinship for the TV show in the movies Batman, right? Just checking, Hillary Spiritos  28:51 yeah. I mean, there is, I'm not the biggest Batman fan, Marvel or super, but I will say there I did talk about this with people about how Batman, if I'm correct, embraced what he was most afraid of, and took that to help him fight the bad villains in Gotham. And so that is an incredible thing to do, to take what is blocking you, to take those fears, anxieties and and insecurities, and recognize where they come from, own them to and understand how they influence and manifest in your everyday life, so that you're not at the mercy of them. That's basically what Batman does. And that's great. That's dope. Michael Hingson  29:37 I think that happened probably more in movies than in the TV series, but that's Sure. Adam West was an interesting character for TV, but that that's fine. I actually sat a row in front of him on an airplane flight once, he was a whole lot different on the airplane than he was as Batman was interesting. Did you talk to him? No. He didn't have any interest in talking to anybody except, I guess it was his agent or or someone who he was with, and that was the only person he talked with. Okay, that's that's a lot. What do you do? You know, well, so the the thing is, though, that I think you're right. Batman, like anyone had fears and he and especially in the movies, he learned to embrace them and did the things that he needed to do. He he chose his life, although there were things that that led him to do it, he still chose his life and operated accordingly. And that's something that we all have the opportunity to do, is we can make choices. I think it's important that we monitor our choices. That is when we choose things. I can I can go back many years in my life and see how I got to where I am today by the choices that I made. And I think that's a thing that is worth people doing, is being introspective and and thinking about what you do, what you did, and how you got where you are, not in any kind of a blame way, but rather just to know, and that also helps you then decide where do we go from here, Hillary Spiritos  31:25 absolutely, to constantly or consistently, take stock of who you are and what you want, and to ask yourself questions of, is that true? Is that actually what I want? Is that actually what I value? Is that what I believe is, Am I doing this because somebody else says I should? Am I doing this because I don't want to be embarrassed, like, am I excited to do this, or excited and anxious, or do I just really not want to do it? All of these questions are really important to continually ask ourselves. But I think if you haven't learned to ask yourself those questions, or if you're feeling really lost at sea, or if you're feeling like you really just don't know how to cut out the noise, then it might be beneficial to talk to somebody. But absolutely, that's something that that's being introspective and reflective is is vital? Michael Hingson  32:19 Yeah, I think that's extremely important to do, and it's it's also all about working to keep fear from controlling you, and learning how to control fear. And the more you look at like, what, what you do every day. And I encourage people, as they're going to sleep at night, to be introspective. What happened today? What? Why did I react to that? Why? Why was I afraid? What can I learn from that, or even the good stuff that went really well, but how might I do it better? Being introspective and really listening to your inner voice helps a lot in being able to deal with fear. Hillary Spiritos  33:01 Absolutely, absolutely. I think it's the question of, are you able to listen to the to your inner voice? Do you trust your inner voice? Do you listen to your inner voice? Is there a reason why, even though you hear it, you're not doing it? Is there a reason why you're not taking the steps to engage with your life the way that you want. Do you not even know what the life you want to create is? And I think that these are really like listening to your inner voice is absolutely critical. It's vital. But sometimes it's not the easiest thing to do, Michael Hingson  33:38 no because we haven't learned to do it. The more we work at it, the easier it becomes. It's a matter of really exercising that muscle that is our mind. Because we can learn to trust that inner voice. We can learn to listen to that inner voice, but we have to make the choice to do it. No one else can do that for us, absolutely. Hillary Spiritos  33:59 And I think that's that's really important information, right? Because we're the ones that have to live with the consequences of our choices. We have to live. We're the ones who have to live in our lives, so to look outward for answers rather than looking inward. While it might feel more comfortable and you feel like, oh, that way I want won't make mistakes, or people will deem it acceptable, because I've I've taken the census, and everybody thinks that this is what I should do. It doesn't save you from you're the one who actually has to go through the motions, and you might be living someone else's life, and you're going to realize that at some point or another. Yeah. Michael Hingson  34:43 And, and, I guess, in a sense, hopefully you will realize it and use that to advance and go forward and more. Learn to listen to your inner voice and more. Learn to not be afraid of so many things. Yeah. Hillary Spiritos  34:57 And, I think that it's you. It's lovely to recognize that and try to get on the right path, or let's say, your path earlier rather than later. Yeah, because what you don't want is to necessarily look back and realize that you've lived your life according to someone else. It's the number one regret of the dying, right? So obviously, we do that to the best of our abilities, because all we can do is make the best decisions with the information that we have at the time. So it's keep it's a constant constant, trying to figure it out, but you we want to get on that. We want to live our most authentic life as as much as possible. Michael Hingson  35:41 Sure, you talk a lot, or you refer to reclaiming your 20s and 30s and so on. And I think that's an interesting thing, because it's it was a probably most people view it as a simpler time in life. But what are some of the misconceptions that people actually have about their 20s and 30s, and how do you refrain from dealing with uncertainty and turn it into opportunity? Hillary Spiritos  36:12 Yeah, that's really an interesting question, and it's a way really interesting way of phrasing it, because when you're older, you do tend to say, Oh, if only I, like, realized this in my 20s, because the or, like, what I could tell my 20 year old or 30 year old self is because actually, your 20s and 30s are fraught with a lot of challenges and a lot of insecurities and a lot of fears, and They're actually not necessarily simple times, but I would say some misconceptions are that you need to have it all figured out, that you're running out of time, that it's too late, or that you're behind, that everybody else has it figured out, and you you're lost, that your 20s are for figuring things out, and then once you hit your 30s, you're supposed To have it all figured out, and all your ducks in a row, the idea that your path is straight, and once you make a decision, then you're off to the races. And like you don't ever have to think about it again. If I could just pick the right career, pick the right partner, pick the right industry, I'll just be done. And that's that's not how life works. No. So I would say that we want to reframe uncertainty and all of these questions as opportunity. And so life is uncertain. And so when you learn to see uncertainty as possibility and obstacles as opportunity for growth, then you will begin to have more forward momentum, have live your live a more authentic life, and learn more about yourself and gain self trust and resilience and self reliance. And that's that's what we want to learn how to do in our 20s and 30s and beyond Michael Hingson  38:00 and beyond, because the reality is, it's all part of the same thing. Hillary Spiritos  38:04 Sure, absolutely, yeah, Michael Hingson  38:08 it, it may or may not get any simpler, or maybe we learn enough things that it looks like it's simpler, but because we've learned certain things that help us get through whatever it is we have to get through. But the reality is, it's all about learning. I think, yeah, go ahead. Hillary Spiritos  38:27 No, I just I think it absolutely is. So I think it's about if you start to recognize this in your 20s and 30s, you will as you go older, the wisdom comes with recognizing that you've done things like this. You've got a lot in your backpack. You have a lot of tools, you have a lot of experiences. You have the wisdom that comes with that. You have the self reliance and the self assurance that comes with that. And you know that you're going to be okay. You know that you can get through it because you've done it. So I think what being an adult means is, am I do I trust myself? Am I secure in who I am? Am I someone? Can I soothe myself? These are questions, rather than like, do I have the home, the kids, the you know, the traditional markers of adulthood really don't mean anything anymore. But what's really important is, Am I okay with me, and how do I want to engage in the world? Michael Hingson  39:22 Yeah, and the reality is that it is, I think, going back to something we talked about before, it is tougher today, because there are just so many external meth or things that influence or that try to influence, and it probably is a lot more difficult than it than it used to be, because towns are larger, there are more people around. You've got social media, you've got so many other things that you face daily, probably a number of which we didn't used to face, or at least not to the same degree. So. It is more of a challenge than it used to be. Hillary Spiritos  40:03 Sure, it's definitely it's definitely different, but I do believe that say that there are inflection points, right? And I do think that the advent of social media is a huge inflection point, and something that is not beneficial for young adults of today. Yeah, and it is in many ways detrimental and so but it is something that is here, and it is something that young adults have to navigate. How Michael Hingson  40:35 do you teach them to deal with all of that, all the noise, all the social media and everything else, because it's all there. And I'm sure that you as a coach, face this, because you hear it from the people that you work with. Well, but all this is going on. How do you teach people to know what to cut out, or how to cut out a lot of that, to be able to get back to that, I've got to really know me absolutely. Hillary Spiritos  41:02 So there are many tools that one can engage with. So there's actually sitting quietly and reflecting like literally cutting out the noise. There are mindfulness practices and meditation, there's journaling, and there's getting out in nature and exercise and dance and creative expression, and there are definitely tools in which you can get out of your head and into the body and and learn to literally cut out the noise. But I think what's really important is to figure out what resonates for each person, because, as we've said, everybody is different. But in particular for social media like it is really important to have an awareness of why you're using it so it feels like a neutral platform, or maybe it doesn't anymore. People are waking up to it, but it's optimized for engagement, and what you're seeing is someone's projected, curated reality. And so you want to ask yourself why you're doing it. You don't want to sit there and mindlessly scroll. You want to ask yourself what you're trying to get out of it. Are you looking for connection or validation, or creative inspiration or connection? And that can help you navigate through and help you realize what you want to get out from it, and not just like take it all in mindlessly, and we want to obviously be skeptical, skeptical of the information, and we want to limit our use, if not cut it out fully. And it's not a replacement for human connection. A lot of people we have feel like have a loneliness epidemic, because it's not, while social media does connect people, it's not a replacement for human to human connection. So it's really important to keep that in your life. And so I think it's just really important to continually engage with these questions of why you're engaging with it, and what it makes you feel, and how does it serve you? And do you want to be at the mercy of that? And the more you start to question it, the more you can break down those ties, Michael Hingson  43:16 yeah, and the more of that you do, then again, the more you're practicing some of that introspection that we talked about earlier, absolutely, which is really what it's all about. There's nothing wrong with, I don't want to call it second guessing, but there's nothing wrong with thinking about what you're doing, what you did, and using all of that as a learning experience. Life's an adventure. We should we should take it that way. Hillary Spiritos  43:43 Well, that's absolutely true as well. It's like all of these experiences are experiences. All of these are adventures. All of these are opportunities for growth, learning more about ourselves. And I don't want to minimize or belittle the fact that everyone needs to your life needs to be sustainable. You need to be able to like, live your life financially. So it's not like it's all fluff and but I do think it's important to recognize that this is all just a learning experience. Nobody really knows what they're doing. We're all trying to figure it out. So it's okay to take a little bit, cut yourself a little bit of slack, and be nicer to yourself and and it's actually really important to cut out the critical voice in your head, because that that is actually a huge reason of why you are feeling Michael Hingson  44:38 stuck. Yeah, I've said many times on this podcast that one of the things that I've learned over the last couple of years is to stop saying I'm my own worst critic. I used to do that because I will like to record speeches when I travel and speak publicly, and I come back and listen to them, and I always just sort of quickly. He said, I'm my own worst critic. I want to really listen to it, because if I don't tell me, nobody else will. And I realized what a negative thing to say. And I finally realized I should be saying I'm my own best teacher. Because in reality, no one can teach me anything. They can provide me with information, but I'm the only one that can truly teach me or open me up for learning Hillary Spiritos  45:21 that's beautiful. I love that I definitely have realized over the course of my life, that I have and I have certain narratives. We all do have certain narratives and stories that we've told ourselves about who we are as people that are actually quite negative and like we're not this kind of person, or we're not capable of this, or we're not the kind of person that does that, and it's actually limiting, and it's not going to help us in the long run Michael Hingson  45:50 well, and we've got to get over this negativity. Just also you do, yeah, the other thing is, I don't like failure. I don't like the term failure because it is so negative, I think that things don't always work out the way we expect. And if we view it as a failure, that's an end, but it's not. It is okay. Something happened. It didn't go the way I wanted. What can I learn from that? And that's the part I think that most of us miss. We don't take that step to really step back or jump back a little bit and go. What do I learn from this that will help me not make the same judgment as as last time? Will not make it go the same way. How do I make it go better next time? Hillary Spiritos  46:35 Yeah, and I think it definitely doesn't help that as young people, we are. We are like system, systemically taught to believe that grades and achievement is of the utmost importance, and the worst grade you can get is an F, and that means it's not good enough. Like that is the lesson we are learned. We are taught over and over and over again. So it is obviously not hard to deduce why we have this definition of failure. Yeah, and obviously our parents and other people in our community perhaps might have such fears, as we've talked about previously in this conversation, that might be like, if you do this, then you might fail at this. You like don't necessarily pursue this career, you might fail at this, and that's perceived to be a really bad thing. Yeah, but as you're saying, If you again, a failure is another way to read, another word that you may need to redefine. Because failure doesn't mean we're terrible. Failure doesn't mean we're incapable. Failure doesn't mean that we should, we should be never like we should stop doing this all together. It's not, it's not a judgment of our self worth. It's just a data point to help us realize, oh, this is not something that I maybe want to engage with, or, oh, I need to learn a little bit more about this, or whatever it might be. I also think it's important to recognize that failure, really, in my opinion, is not trying and not living the life that you want to live. It's if I believe that you can understand failure as like I'm just abdicating my responsibility to make these choices to somebody else, and I'm going to live the life that they've laid out for me, or not trying the things that you want to do, those could be perceived as failure. That's really the only way that can happen. The other Michael Hingson  48:32 part about it, though, is sometimes there may be some other cause for you're not succeeding at doing something. For sure, it could be you're dyslexic, and you don't, you don't do well at reading things, and nobody has diagnosed that. Nobody's figured that out, which is, again, another reason why it's always good for you to be analytical about what you do and and be introspective, or be willing to ask, Hillary Spiritos  49:00 absolutely, that's a great point, absolutely, Michael Hingson  49:05 because all too often we just tend to make assumptions. As you've pointed out, yeah, Hillary Spiritos  49:14 you always want to ask yourself, Is it true and how does that serve me? How does that belief serve me? Is it keeping me stuck? Michael Hingson  49:21 Right? Well, how do you help your clients navigate fear, and especially the fear of disappointing others and so on, as they're growing up and as they're gaining more experience? Hillary Spiritos  49:35 So this is actually definitely what we've been partially done, right? So it's redefining these, redefining failure for yourself and like or with any you know, just thought or assumption and asking yourself, Is it true? How does that serve you? Do you want to live at the mercy of that thought or belief and the fear of disappointing others? Is really interesting, because, as what we said before, it's not it's not someone else's life, it's your life, and you're the one who was to exist in that world. And it's also interesting, just as a note to recognize, sometimes we think we're going to disappoint somebody, because we assume what their response is going to be, but we've actually never had that conversation with them. So is that even true? Like, have you even had that conversation with them? Because we can often scare ourselves with these assumptions of what we think their response is going to be. So if we really don't even take the time to ask, but we're like, oh my god, we're paralyzed by the fear of of what we think they'll say. Then that's something we want to break through. And I also just think again, it's really important to recognize that you we want to build and form a relationship with our inner child, and so the way to live your fullest, fiercest, most authentic life and live the life you imagine is by creating a relationship with your inner child, because that is where your spark, your creativity, your passion, your zest for life, lives, but it's also where your fears and securities and anxieties live. But when you recognize that you are a composite of all of that, that is true, self love, and you can give that to yourself and other people, and also, again, when you recognize and own your fears and securities and anxieties, you're not at the mercy of them. And you can decide, I'm not going to bow down to them. I am going to move forward, I'm going to muster up the courage to move forward in the face of these fears and do what I want to do. Yeah, Michael Hingson  51:49 which makes a lot of sense. Well, you know, one of the things that I was wondering, how long have you been coaching? Let me ask that. Hillary Spiritos  51:56 So I opened up my business during the pandemic, so in 2020 but I've been doing this work for a lot longer than working in universities. Michael Hingson  52:09 So what did you do at universities? You worked in academia a long time? Hillary Spiritos  52:13 Yeah, so I was an academic advisor, and I got the reputation of being like my meetings just happened to run a lot longer, and I was not interested in having transactional conversations with students. I was more interested in trying to figure out who they are and what they wanted and why they weren't going after that, and what they wanted to major in, and what they wanted from their college career and beyond. And we got deep sometimes. And so, yeah, I was, I was someone who who just dug a little bit deeper for sure, Michael Hingson  52:45 well, and you I would think because of that, made students really think and become a lot more analytical about themselves. Hillary Spiritos  52:56 Yeah, I think it's really important to recognize why you are doing something, you know, I I ran into students, and I still have clients today who feel like if they don't know what they want to do, they should study business, or they really love art and drawing, or fashion or what, or some creative field, and their parents say that that's not good enough, and that they should study business or go into medical School or what have you like, there are lots of things that we accept as true or like, you know, maybe, oh, I can't study something in the humanities. I won't get a job from that. That's not important. You know, there are a lot of things we accept as true based on what society tells us, what society values, seemingly, what our parents and our community value, and it's really important to start questioning that and asking if that's really what we want to do. Because if you don't know what you want to do, and you think you're going to study business, because that's a catch all, but you actually realize that you don't enjoy math and you don't want to spend your day in front of a computer, you don't want like then you're going to be miserable. And it's really important to recognize that that's okay to not want that. Speaker 1  54:04 I really think one of the most important things to get out of college, and for those who don't go to college, then you get it from high school or from alternative ways. But I think that one of the most important things is not even necessarily dealing with your major but it is all this whole concept of character development. It's all the other lessons that you learn because you're in an environment where you have to do things differently than you expected that you were going to based on what your parents and other people told you. And I think that's one of the most important things that we could ever have happened to us is that we step out away from at some point in our lives, our Michael Hingson  54:48 growing up period, and we really put ourselves in an environment where we have to discover new things again. That's all part of life and being adventurous. Yeah. Hillary Spiritos  54:58 I mean, as someone who has worked at. Academia for a long time and still does a little bit of hot gossip. I absolutely believe that academics is probably the least important part of college. Michael Hingson  55:09 Yeah, I wasn't going to say that directly, but I agree. Hillary Spiritos  55:14 Yeah, it is mostly what is real. I mean, sure it's very important to learn things absolutely, but it is really important to engage with different perspectives, learn adaptability and communication and time management, and figure out who you are and what you value and what your place in the world, and what impact you want to have on the world, and how to navigate systems that you're unfamiliar with, and how to, how to engage in the world the way you want to. I mean, to try new things, take classes that you think you might be interested in, or like that are totally not, not related to your major, like whatever it is. I think it's absolutely 100% I agree. Speaker 1  55:56 The other part about it is, though, there are also a lot of people who who won't go to college, but doesn't look they don't have the opportunity to do that same learning. Absolutely, oh absolutely. Yeah, there are a lot of ways to get it. Makes a lot of sense, sure, Hillary Spiritos  56:11 and, and, and that's definitely true in general, but especially within the states. And I think this is the case worldwide. Education is often becoming inaccessible for a lot of people, and so you can absolutely engage this part of your life, in your job, in in volunteer work, out in your community, whatever it might be, absolutely it's just the question of the energy and the motivation and the intent that you bring. Michael Hingson  56:44 Yeah, what does leadership mean to you, and how do you work to help young people learn or start to learn, to lead authentically? Hillary Spiritos  56:54 So leadership, to me, is not a title. It's a behavior. It's a sense of self. So it's vision, it's integrity, it's It's empathy, it's courage, communication, authenticity, resourcefulness, all of these things, resilience, to tolerate discomfort and risk taking and so knowing yourself is crucial. What are your strengths? What do you enjoy? What do you value? What are your goals? How do you want to spend your time? What do you stand for? What impact do you want to have? And so we want to practice empathy and active listening to for ourselves and other people. So that means, again, like stopping the critical voice, not judging yourself, asking yourself if this is really what you want, really checking in with yourself and getting to know yourself. We want to build resilience and self reliance and self trust. So again, practicing obstacles is opportunity and for growth and learning how to emotionally regulate yourself and embrace risk taking and the unknown. And we want to cultivate our communication skills, so cultivating our own voice and understanding our own narrative again, as we spoke about and learn to have difficult conversations and not being afraid of somebody else's response and being okay with how they respond, and not taking it as a as like something about yourself criticism, right? As a criticism, exactly, and so, and then be just being a lifelong learner, right? So it's about life is, God willing, hopefully long, and you will pivot, and you will grow and change and embrace that opportunity, and don't be afraid of the fact that things might change. And this is, again, learning to listen to your inner voice, yeah, Michael Hingson  58:55 well, and I think that that's really, of course, once again, probably goes out saying that's what it's really all about. Well, how about I think some people say Gen Z isn't really prepared for the real world. What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm still trying to decide what the real world is. But anyway, Hillary Spiritos  59:16 right? So there, there are some assumptions made in that question, right about what the real world is, and and I also, but I want to focus on what the word I'm prepared really, yeah, because perhaps Gen Z is, quote, unquote unprepared in the way that traditional markers might understand. But millennials and Gen Z really grew up in a different world that is shaped by technology and mental health awareness and global crisis crises and social media. That doesn't mean they're unprepared, it just means they're prepared differently, and so in many ways, actually, Gen Z is more equipped to understand the complexity. The modern world. They're digitally fluent. They're able to understand mental health and diversity and inclusion. They question outdated systems that are broken and that are not working for the world and people in the world. And so what gives me hope is that people are not accepting that this is how it's always been been done, mentality, their purpose and mission driven. They're extremely adaptable. Have great emotional awareness, and they're willing to speak out and challenge norms. And so I truly believe that young people are the stewards of our planet, and the more that they live with curiosity and passion and compassion and empathy, the more that they can contribute to healing and transforming the world around them. So instead of like labeling them as unprepared, we should recognize that the world that they're stepping into and the world that we've created is unlike anything we've ever seen before, and we're trying to, like, build the plane as we're flying it. So it's really important to to not belittle them, and not talk down to young people as it seems like a lot of people do, and recognize that actually, young adults have a lot to teach the people who are in these systems that actually, seemingly aren't working anymore well. Michael Hingson  1:01:23 And the reality is, of course, who is really the unprepared? And it's it's also true that so many people have not learned to navigate the world that we've been creating and that we continue to create, and maybe they're the ones that really need to learn how to become more prepared by becoming more involved in some of these things that young people are learning to do automatically or on their own? Hillary Spiritos  1:01:50 Absolutely, absolutely. Michael Hingson  1:01:53 Yeah, well, in reality, to go back to an old joke, we'll know if people are really prepared if they can work VCRs, right? Okay, remember that nobody could work a VCR. They were always so complicated. And now, of course, we don't even know what VCRs are today. But I mean, the Hillary Spiritos  1:02:14 young people that I talked to don't know what VCRs are. You know what that's you know, the world keeps moving there. Michael Hingson  1:02:24 Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It dawned on me a couple of years ago as a as a public speaker, that I'm now speaking in a world where we have a whole generation that has grown up without any memory of September 11, and it's an amazing thing to think about, but it has helped me learn how to tell my story better, so that I can, as I like to say it, bring people into the building and have them go down the stairs with me, Have them deal with everything that I dealt with, and be able to come out the other side better for the experience. And I think that's extremely important to be able to do, because so many people don't have a memory of it. And even for the adults who who do for most people, the World Trade Center experience is only as big as their newspaper photographs or their television screens anyway. Hillary Spiritos  1:03:25 Yeah, I think it is really important to recognize what everybody's actual lived reality is and what everybody's understanding of the world is, and so talking to young people who perhaps are not who did not live through September 11, or who did not live through or perhaps didn't, was weren't able to vote or didn't weren't, like, engaged in the Obama era of like, hope and engagement in politics in that way, or Millennials who were younger in the September 11, like it really, it's meeting people where they are, yep, and recognizing that that is their understanding of what America is, what the world looks like, what how they want to how they want to engage, what work looks like, what their view of their Future is, yeah, and recognizing all that's different. Speaker 1  1:04:21 I agree. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I'm glad Hillary we had a chance to do this, and I want to thank you for being here and giving us a lot of great insights. And I hope that people will take some of this to heart, if people want to reach out to you, maybe to use some of your skills as a coach and so on, how do they do that? Yeah, Hillary Spiritos  1:04:41 absolutely. So my website is bat out of hell.net, Michael Hingson  1:04:47 and my Tiktok out of O, U T, T, A, yes, just want to make sure we spell it so, Hillary Spiritos  1:04:55 yes, B, A, T, o, u T, T, A, H, E, l, l.net, And then my Tiktok and Instagram are B, A, T, dot, O, U, T, T, A, underscore, hell. And if you would like to start working with me, I am absolutely taking on new clients, or we can schedule a consultation call so you can get to know me and the way I work and see if it's the right fit. So I would love to hear from you. Absolutely, we're we'll get through this together. Michael Hingson  1:05:24 Do you coach people all over the world? Hillary Spiritos  1:05:25 I do. I coach people all over the world. I coach individually, one on one coaching. I have group coaching, and I and I do workshops and seminars, so we can be in touch in various different ways. But yeah, I love, I love coaching. Michael Hingson  1:05:42 Well, super well. Thank you again. And I want to thank all of you for being here, and I hope that this has been useful and that you've learned something from it, and I hope that you'll reach out to Hillary, because she's got a lot to offer. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what you think of today's episode. So please feel free to email me. Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, we'd love it if wherever you're listening or watching the podcast today, if you'll give us a five star rating, we value that your ratings very highly. Love your thoughts and your input, so please give it. We really appreciate you doing it, and for all of you and Hillary, including you, if you know anyone else who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we're always looking for more people who want to come on and tell their stories to help us all see why we can be and should be more unstoppable than we think we are. So please provide introductions, always looking for more people to chat with. But again, Hillary, I just want to th

EPISODE 636 - Gil Merrick - Haunted Victory, Come September, Olympics and HorsesBorn in Shaker Heights, Ohio, Gil Merrick attended Hiram College, earning a BA in International Finance and German. Upon completing his MBA at Cleveland State University, he began a forty-year career managing companies throughout the U.S., Europe, and Asia. An avid horseman with credits as Team Leader for the U.S. Equestrian Federation at the 2007 Pan American Games and the 2008 Olympic Games, he now devotes himself full-time to writing in South Florida.​Book: Haunted Victory: Healing From Childhood Sexual Abuse and the Decades of Addiction That Followed - A small and effeminate boy—bullied for years while growing up in an alcoholic family in suburban Cleveland—Gil finds refuge in the equestrian world. A coach instills in him the dream of going to the Olympics and becomes his mentor, his guide—and his predator.Gil survives rape, betrayals, setbacks, and the loss of family and friends—all while on a quest to fulfill his dream. This book is not only about surviving; it's about the resilience of the human spirit and the pursuit of dreams against all odds. Gil makes it to the Olympics, but not in the way he imagined. He discovers what happens when a dream ends, and all you have left are your addictions.What does it take to finally realize that our lives can't go on as they are? How do we put an end to our self-destructive ways? Is it even possible to grasp the complexities of untreated and unrealized trauma? How do we come to terms with the cost of the abuse we suffered?Gil tells his story with a breadth of detail and thought-provoking insights rarely shared by male victims of sexual abuse. Readers will find a story of hope, determination, and the transformative power of confronting one's past.Book: A small and effeminate boy—bullied for years while growing up in an alcoholic family in suburban Cleveland—Gil finds refuge in the equestrian world. A coach instills in him the dream of going to the Olympics and becomes his mentor, his guide—and his predator.What does it take to finally realize that our lives can't go on as they are? How do we put an end to our self-destructive ways? Is it even possible to grasp the complexities of untreated and unrealized trauma? How do we come to terms with the cost of the abuse we suffered?Gil tells his story with a breadth of detail and thought-provoking insights rarely shared by male victims of sexual abuse. Readers will find a story of hope, determination, and the transformative power of confronting one's past.Book: Come September - Ryan Jackson is a shy, scrappy teenager from a poor Appalachian town. Kip Reynolds is a talented high school polo player from a wealthy family living in the suburbs of Detroit. Sharp and stunning, Claudia Kinzler wins the admiration of both young men before her world is shattered by her father's death in the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks.With unforgettable characters and emotionally charged storytelling, this novel explores what binds us and what breaks us, the power of strength and perseverance, and how truth and forgiveness can be the key to reconciling the pain of our past and building a new life.https://www.gilmerrick.com/Support the show___https://livingthenextchapter.com/podcast produced by: https://truemediasolutions.ca/Coffee Refills are always appreciated, refill Dave's cup here, and thanks!https://buymeacoffee.com/truemediaca

Gefühle, soziales Verhalten, Empathie – alles, was ein gutes Leben ausmacht, kann technisch nicht simuliert werden, sagt die Computerwissenschaftlerin Anne Foerst im Podcast. Ein Podcast von Pragmaticus.Das ThemaMenschliche Intelligen ist kein Gedankenkonstrukt, sondern wurde in der Evolution vom Körper geprägt. Ohne Körper, keine Intelligenz, sagt die Computerwissenschaftlerin Anne Foerst, die in den 1990er-Jahren am Massachusetts Institute of Technology an der Entwicklung der ersten humanoiden Robotermodelle mitgewirkt hat. Menschliches Verhalten ist hochkomplex und erfordert mehr als technische Machbarkeit, erzählt sie in diesem Podcast und setzt der kalten, technikgeprägten Welt von Machbarkeit das gute Leben entgegen.Durch die Anschläge auf das World Trade Center am 11. September 2001 kamen die ambitionierten Pläne von humanoiden Robotern zum Erliegen. Künstliche Intelligenz, wie sie heute die Large Language Models wie ChatGPT simulieren, ist reine Statistik und null intelligent im menschlichen Sinne. Wenn Menschen ihre Entscheidungskraft an die Maschinen abgeben, ist das selbstverschuldet und kann auf lange Sicht der gesamten Spezies schaden, ist Foerst überzeugt. Statt Technik-Euphorie fordert sie einen breiten gesellschaftlichen Diskurs. Europa sei den USA in dieser Hinsicht voraus. Ein Gespräch über Roboter, ChatGPT und das, was Menschsein ausmacht. Unser Gast in dieser Folge: Anne Foerst, geboren 1966 in Wuppertal, ist Theologin und Computerwissenschaftlerin. Sie studierte in Bonn und ging Mitte der 1980er-Jahre für einen Studienaufenthalt nach Harvard, wo sie bei der Entwicklung von humanoiden Robotern beteiligt war. Sie leitete unter anderem das Forschungsprojekt „God and Computers“. Bis heute setzte sich für den Dialog zwischen Naturwissenschaften und Technik ein. Seit 2003 ist sie Professorin an der Bonaventura University und leitet den Lehrstuhl für Theologie und Computerwissenschaften.Dies ist ein Podcast von Der Pragmaticus. Sie finden uns auch auf Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn und X (Twitter).  

In this episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with former FBI agent Séamus McElearney, author of Flipping Capo, for a deep dive into one of the most remarkable Mafia investigations and how he took down the DeCavalcante Family. McElearney recounts his unlikely path from the world of banking to the FBI, driven by a lifelong fascination with law enforcement. Despite being told he didn't have the “right background,” he pushed forward—eventually landing in New York's Organized Crime Squad C-10, where he investigated both the Bonanno and DeCavalcante crime families. He describes the rare and demanding experience of working two Mafia families at once, and the teamwork required to dismantle them from the inside out. As the conversation turns to his book, Flipping Capo, McElearney explains the years-long process of writing it and the rigorous FBI review needed to ensure no sensitive investigative techniques were revealed. He shares early memories of notorious boss Joe Massino, and the high-stakes surveillance and arrests that defined his career. A major focus of the episode is the arrest and flipping of Anthony Capo, a feared DeCavalcante soldier—and the first made member of that family ever to cooperate with the government. McElearney walks listeners through the tension of that operation, his calculated approach to treating Capo with respect, and the psychological tightrope that ultimately persuaded Capo to talk. That single decision triggered a domino effect of cooperation that helped bring down the New Jersey mob family many believe inspired The Sopranos. Gary and Séamus dive into the proffer process, cooperation agreements, and the behind-the-scenes strategies used to turn high-level mobsters. McElearney also draws comparisons between real mob figures and the fictional world of The Sopranos, revealing how much of the hit series was grounded in the actual cases he worked. The interview closes with McElearney's reflections on how organized crime continues to evolve. While today's mob may look different from the one he battled in the '90s, he stresses that the methods—and the money—still flow. His candid insights offer a rare look into the changing face of the American Mafia and the ongoing fight to contain it. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. 2:26 Seamus’ FBI Journey 6:26 Inside the DeCavalcante Family 9:05 The Process of Flipping 10:27 Comparing Families 12:30 The First Cooperation 17:43 The Proffer Process 25:03 Protecting Cooperators 27:44 The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro 29:42 Life on Trial 30:28 The Real Sopranos 39:43 Leading the Columbo Squad 44:15 Major Arrests and Cases 50:57 Final Thoughts and Stories Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00]Well, hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective. [0:07]Welcome to Gangland Wire [0:07]I have a former FBI agent as my guest today. And, you know, I love having these FBI agents on. I’ve had a lot of them on and I worked with a lot of the guys and they’re really good guy. Everyone I ever met and worked with was a really good guy. Now they got their deadhead just like we did. But these aggressive guys are the ones that write books and I’ve got one on today. Seamus McElherney. Welcome, Seamus. Thank you. It’s great to be here. All right. Well, an Irish name now working on the Italian mob, huh? How come you weren’t working on the Westie? So they were maybe gone by the time you came around. There’s no such thing. [0:47]Oh, yeah. You got your code. You Irish guys got your code, too. All right, Seamus, you got a book, Killing, or Killing, Flipping Capo. I want to see it back up over your shoulder there. Really interesting book, guys. He flipped a guy named Anthony Capo. And he really took down the real Sopranos, if you will. So Seamus, tell us a little about how you got started with the FBI, your early career. Okay. When I got out of school, I really didn’t know what to do. And I got into banking and I just decided that was really not for me. And I got lucky where I got to meet an FBI agent. and I was just so fascinated by the work. It seemed like every day was different. You know, one day you could meet a CEO and another day you could be doing surveillance. It just, the job just seemed really interesting. [1:38]Like fascinating to me. So I decided to try to become an agent. And I was constantly told, Shane, you should never become an agent. You didn’t have the background for it. And one, one, a motto in life to me is persistence beats resistance. And I was just determined to become an agent. And back then in the late 1990s, it was a long process and it took me close to two years to actually become an agent. And I was selected to go down to training and I was very fortunate to be selected to go down to training. Now it was your first office back up in New York and the, one of the organized crime squads, or did you go out into boonies and then come back? I actually was born and raised in New York, and I was fortunate to be selected to be sent back to New York. So my first squad, I was sent back to the city, back to 26 Federal Plaza, [2:26]Seamus’ FBI Journey [2:24]and I was assigned to a squad called C-10. And C-10 was an organized crime squad, which was responsible for the Bonanno family, and then later became the DeCavocanti family as well, which I can explain to you yeah yeah we’ll get we’ll get deep into that now now let’s let me ask you a little bit about the book tell the guys a little bit about the process of writing a book from your fbi experiences. [2:47]It’s a long process. First of all, I was contacted by someone who was interested [2:55]Writing a Book [2:53]in writing a book based upon my career. People had encouraged me to write a book because I had a very successful career. And when you work organized crime, it’s never just about you. It’s about the people that you work with, right? It’s definitely a team. It’s never just one person. I had great supervisors. I had great teammates. I had a great partner. And so I was approached to write a book. So then I had no idea. So there was an agent, a famous agent, an undercover agent named Jack Garcia. So I kind of really leaned on him to kind of learn how to write a book. And it’s a long process. You have to get an agent, the publisher, a co-author I had. And then when you finally have all that, and you do have the manuscript ready to be written, you have to send it down to the FBI. And that is a long process. The FBI, in this instance, probably took over a year for them to review the book because what they want to make sure is you’re not revealing any investigative techniques. Fortunately for me, a lot of the information that is in the book is public information because of all the trials that I did. Interesting. Yeah, it is. It is quite a I know it was quite a process. [4:00]Now, the banana squad, you work in a banana squad. You know, we know a little bit about the banana squad. [4:07]Was Joe Pacino the boss when you first came in? Yes, he was. And I actually had the pleasure of arresting Joe as well. Ah, interesting. I did a show on Joe. He’s a really interesting guy. I know my friend, who was at the banana squad, I think just before you were, and he talked a lot of, to me personally, he won’t go on the show, but he talked a lot about Joe Massino. He said, actually, saw him in the courtroom one time later on, he hadn’t seen him in several years. And, and Joe looked across the courtroom. He said, Doug, how are you doing? He said, Joe was that kind of guy. He was real personal. He was. [4:44]Yeah, so when I first got to the squad, the supervisor at the time was a gentleman named Jack Steubing, and he had the thought process to go after Joe and his money. So there was two accountants that were assigned to a squad at that time. It was Kimberly McCaffrey and Jeff Solette, and they were targeted to go after Joe and his money. And it was a very successful case. And when we arrested Joe, I think it was in January of 2003, I believe it was, I was assigned to be part of that arrest team. Interesting. You know, McCaffrey and Sled are going to be talking about that case out at the Mob Museum sometime in the near future. I can’t remember exactly when it is. And it was a hell of a case. I think it just happened, actually. Oh, did it? Okay. I actually just spoke to Jeff, so I think it just happened about a week or two ago. Okay. Yeah, I tried to get him to come on the show, and I think maybe he was committed to doing something else, and I didn’t keep after him. And I don’t like to pester people, you know. [5:44]And Fensell was the one that said, you got to get Jeff Sillett. You got to get Jeff Sillett. When I looked into that money angle of it, that was pretty interesting about how they were laundering their money through the parking lots and just millions. And when he gave up, like $10 million or something? I mean, it’s unbelievable. Yes. And that’s that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the book is because I don’t think the public or the press really put this together where that squad, C-10, is a very unique squad where we were dismantling the two families at the same time. Half the family was working the Bonanno family and half the family was working the Cavalcanti family. So it’s a very unique squad during that six or seven year time period where we were dismantling two families at the same time. [6:26]Inside the DeCavalcanti Family [6:26]Interesting and and that gets us into the dekavocante family i could always struggle with that name for some reason but that’s all right guys know i butcher these names all the time. [6:37]Forgive me guys anyhow so you ended up working on the dekavocante family down in new jersey now that you know that’s unusual how did that come about we got we got a new jersey branch of the fbi down there too, Yes, we do. So what happened was I went to training in February of 1998. The case actually starts in January of 1998, where an individual named Ralph Guarino was the mastermind behind this, but he had the idea of robbing the World Trade Center. So he had three people that actually tried to execute that plan. They did rob the World Trade Center, but when they came out, they took their mask off and they were identified by the cameras that were actually there. So those individuals were actually arrested pretty quickly. I think two were arrested that day. The third person, I think, fled to New Mexico and was found pretty quickly. Ralph was smart enough to know that he was going to be apprehended pretty quickly. So he reached out to an agent named George Hanna, a legendary agent within the office, and George was able to convince him to become a proactive witness, meaning he would make consensual recordings. That was in January of 1998. I think it was January 14th. [7:51]Approximately nine days later, there was a murder of an individual named Joseph Canigliaro. Who was a ruthless DeKalocanti associate assigned to a wheelchair. How he got in a wheelchair was back in the 70s, a DeKalocanti soldier and him went to go collect money from a loan shark victim. And the story goes that Jim Gallo, James Gallo, actually shot Joseph Canigliaro by accident and paralyzed him. No hard feelings. It was just the course of doing their business back then. But he was paralyzed from the 70s to the 90s. He was a ruthless individual. though. And the reason that they killed him is his crew around him had him killed. They actually killed him because he was such a ruthless person and who would extort people and just really was a bad person. There were stories that he would call people over to him in his wheelchair and shoot them. So a ruthless guy. And he was killed in, I think, January 23rd of 1998. [8:50]So that’s how this case starts. Ralph Guarino, as I said, became a proactive witness. When you have a proactive witness. You just don’t know where they’re going to go. What I mean by that is you would direct him through mob associates and many guys, and you’re trying to gather evidence on tape. [9:05]The Process of Flipping [9:06]Where Ralph Guarino led us was the Brooklyn faction of the DeCavalcanti family, namely Anthony Capo, Anthony Rotondo, Vincent Palermo. [9:17]Joseph Scalfani, a whole host of DeCavalcanti people that were located in Brooklyn. And that’s how we start to build this case. Now, granted, I was just in training at that time in February of 1998. I don’t get sent back to New York until May of 1998. And from May of 1998 until December of 1998, they put you through a rotation, meaning I go through the operations center, I go through surveillance, and then I finally get assigned to C-10 in December of 1998. At that point in time, Jeff and Kim are already on the squad, so they’re operating the case against Messino. I come to the squad, and the Decalvo Canty case has now started. So I’m assigned to the Decalvo Canty portion of the squad to work them. And as I said, that’s why we’re working two parallel cases at the time. One is against the Bananos, the other is against the Jersey family. And we operate, Ralph, proactively from January 1998 up until the first set of indictments, which was in December of 1999. So compare and contrast the Banano family structure and how they operated in [10:27]Comparing Families [10:24]a DeCavocante family structure and how they operate. Were they exactly the same or were there some differences? [10:31]They’re into the same types of the rackets that the Waldemar people are into, but I would say related to the Decalvo Canty family, since they’re based in Jersey, they really had a control of the unions out there. There was two unions that they basically controlled, Local 394, which was the labor union, and they also started their own union, which was the asbestos union, which was Local 1030. [10:53]And those were controlled by the Decalvo Canty family, so that was the bread and butter of the Decalvo Canty family. So, as I said, the first set, you know, we operated Ralph proactively for almost close to two years. And then in December of 1999, we executed our first set of arrests because there was whispers that Ralph, why wasn’t he arrested yet? Where he was the mastermind behind the World Trade Center being robbed, but he hasn’t been picked up yet. So there was whispers that he might be cooperating with the government. And for his safety, that’s why we took him off off the street and we executed our first round of arrest in December of 1999. [11:33]I’m a relatively new agent. I’d only been on the squad now for a year and we arrested 39 people that day. I get assigned to arrest Anthony Capo, who’s a soldier within the Decavacanti family based out of Staten Island. And I was really surprised by that because, as I said, I was just an agent for about a year. Usually when you’re a new agent, you’re assigned to the back, you know, like we are security. I was even surprised that I was going to be on a team. And I was fortunate enough to be the team leader, which is very surprising to me. And the case was out of the Southern District of New York. And in New York, just for the public, there is two districts. There’s a Southern District of New York and the Eastern District of New York. And the Eastern District of New York also had charges on Anthony Capo as well. So for my arrest team, I had members from the Eastern District of New York as well. There was a separate squad that was looking into Anthony Capo there. [12:30]The First Cooperation [12:27]So I got the ticket to arrest Anthony Capo in December of 1999. And that’s how this case starts. [12:33]Interesting. Now, nobody’s ever flipped out of the DeCavocante family before, I believe. It’s been a pretty tight family, really rigidly controlled by this Richie the Boot. I mean, he’s a fearsome, fearsome guy. I mean, you did not want to get crossways with him. And a smaller, tighter family, it seems to me like, than the New York families. That was right. Well, like up and up until that point, up until that point and unbeknownst to me that no made member in the DeKalbacanti family had ever cooperated with the government before. [13:08]So I had watched George Hanna, how he operated Ralph Guarino for those two years, and he always treated him with respect. And prior to going to arrest Anthony Capo, Anthony Capo had had a reputation of being an extremely violent person, hated by law enforcement and even hated by a lot of people within the mob. But I was going I wasn’t going to let that, you know, use that against him. I was going to treat him with respect regardless. Right. I didn’t know I didn’t know him. I never dealt with him before. And I would basically before I went to go arrest him, I was going to study everything about him, learn everything about him. And I was going to use the approach of treating him with respect and using some mind chess when I was going to arrest him. What I mean by that is I was going to learn everything charges about him, everything about his family. I wanted him to know that I knew him like the back of my hand from head to toe, the start of the book to the end of the book. [14:02]And when I went to arrest him, I remember when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. So all the planning that you do related to going into an arrest, the checks that you do, he’s at the house, you knock on his door, and guess what? He’s not there. So his wife basically tells us that he’s at his mom’s house. So then that throws all the planning out the window, and now we go to his mom’s house. And when I met him, you know, I saw that he had a relationship with his parents, which, you know, it gives me a different perspective from what I heard from him. Interesting. And that says something about him, that’s for sure. So everything that I heard of this violent person and hated person, the way he treated law enforcement, he wasn’t that way with me. [14:49]So when I get him in the car and I start to read him his rights and start to ask him questions, every question that I would ask him, I already had the answer to, like, your date of birth, social security number. And then he would invoke his right to counsel, and then you’re not allowed to ask him any more questions. So what I would do is I would let the mind game start then. And I would ask him, you know, tell him about the charges that he had at that point in time. He was only charged with a conspiracy to murder Charlie Maggiore, who was an acting panel boss of the Decalvo Canty family. At that time, that point in time, they had three panel bosses. It was Charlie Maggiore, Jimmy Palermo and Vincent Palermo. Vincent Palermo was known as the stronger personality and really known as the acting boss. And they wanted to kill Charlie Maggiore. So he was charged with that. conspiracy to murder. And he was also charged with, I believe, stock fraud or it was mail fraud that would lead to stock fraud. So when I would question him, I would tell him, since he already invoked his right to counsel, don’t say anything, just listen to me. For an example, I would say your plan was to murder Charles Majuri. Your plan was to ring his doorbell and shoot him right there with James Gallo, Joe Macella. But you guys didn’t do that because there was a cop on the block. So instead of just doing a ring and run, you guys were going to ring and shoot him, right? [16:17]And now you’ve got to think, I told him, don’t say anything. Just listen to what I just said, right? Because I can’t have him answer any questions. And this wasn’t a question. This was a statement. Yeah. So that gives him food for thought, because you got to think, how would I know that? He doesn’t know at that point in time, this is an indictment. How do I know that? He doesn’t know who the cooperator is. He doesn’t know who made a recording. So I’m just throwing this at him. And this is the first time he’s hearing this. So it’s got to make him think, like, what else does this agent know? And I did this with the other charges as well. And then I would just throw these little tidbits at him. And then I would speak to the driver. How are you doing this? just give him food for thought. And then we just developed a bond that day, just talking sports back and forth. He actually was a cowboy fan. I’m a Steeler fan. So we have that little intensity going back and forth about that. And then we just developed a bond that day. I think that was the first time that he had an interaction with law enforcement, where it was more of a respect thing, as opposed to someone yelling at him or being contentious with him. I don’t think he’s ever or experienced that before. [17:27]Also because of his delivery as well, right? You know, it works both ways where you can, he can have his delivery really angry and that could, you know, provoke law enforcement to be angry towards him too. [17:43]The Proffer Process [17:40]So I think that helped it that way that day. And then just throughout the whole day. And I think one of the things that I do talk about within the book is just explaining processes to people, which is generally, I haven’t seen that done in a book before about how pretrial works. So what is pretrial? How cooperation works? How trial works? So I think there’s a lot of tidbits within the book that kind of explain things like that. Even some crimes, too. Like everyone hears what loan sharking is. I go into detail as to what loan sharking is and how it really works, because it’s a very profitable way to make money. So we have our day together. And, you know, then I had to meet his stepfather. I think he had heard that I treated his stepfather with respect. And then approximately a week later, I get a call from his lawyer and I basically almost fell out of my chair when his lawyer said he wanted to cooperate. [18:37]I bet. And then, yeah. And, you know, keep in mind, I’ve only been on the job for a year and I immediately call the assistant who is a seasoned assistant. Maria Barton, what was her name? And she’s really concerned, like, what did I say? Right. So I told her in these situations, less is more. I just told her I was going to call you. That’s all I said. I didn’t say anything else. Didn’t promise anything at all. I said I was going to call you. So, you know, that started with the process and then you go through a proffer. So I explained what the proffer is and how that process works. Interesting. Yeah. A proffer, guys is is like a kind of agreement you know and you you have to be totally open and admit to every crime you ever did and and we’ll cover you but to a certain point the basis you’ll lie down the basics. [19:31]Right. So what, you know, what we kind of like call it is queen for a day, right? Where you come in, we can’t use your words against you unless you lie to us, right? If you were, if you were to lie to us and then go, go to trial and, you know, we could, if you were to take the stand, we could, we could use it against you. But as long as you come in and you tell us the truth and you tell us everything, all the crimes that you’ve done. And the beauty of the mob is when they do a crime, they never do a crime alone, right? They involve a lot of people within a crime. So that’s the beauty of that. So when we have our first proffer, you know, in time, you only have a short amount of time to actually speak about this because you can only be away from jail for a certain amount of time right before the bad guys start to realize that something might be up. Right. So he comes in. And even even before that, on his on his way back, when we’re taking him back to 26 Federal Plaza, one of the things that he tells us is and it makes sense when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. He was at his mom’s house in the car ride back. He throws a little shot at me and he goes, we knew you were coming. [20:33]Meaning that there was a leak. They got a leak. Yeah. Right. So then when we have the first proffer, he explains the leak to us. And it appears allegedly there was a court reporter within the Southern District that was feeding them information. So that’s not good. And then in the proffer, he tells us about two murders. So, and there might be the bodies, a body might be buried up in Phil Lamella, who was a DeCalvo County soldier, up in Marlboro, New York. So that’s the first thing that he tells us. So these are jewels to us, right? He tells us about a leak. He tells us about two murders. Bodies might be buried. So we have to huddle and we have to decide, is he telling us the truth or not? We all decide that he’s telling us the truth. The proper takes place with George Hanna, as I mentioned him before. Kenny McCabe, a legendary Southern District investigator, and me. And in these situations, again, I’m a new agent. Less is more. I don’t want to say something stupid. So I kind of keep my mouth shut, right? And just listen. So that went really well. And that kind of started this whole process. So now, as we said before, you have… No one cooperated in 100 plus years of this family. And now we have the first [21:49]A Spiral of Cooperation [21:48]made member to cooperate. And basically, Anthony starts a spiral effect of cooperation. [21:56]After he where he reported to in the family at that particular time, since he was such a violent person and hard to control within the family himself. Well, he reported to Vincent Palermo, who was the acting panel boss out of that panel that I talked about, but viewed as the acting boss because of his strong personality. So you have Anthony cooperating. He reports to the acting boss. So from our perspective, our perspective, that’s golden, right? Because now Vinny is going to have to make a decision. Is he going to cooperate or not? And then about three months later, guess what? Vinny decides to cooperate. So now we have a soldier and we have the acting boss who’s going to cooperate. So we go from no one in a hundred years to basically two people in three months. [22:45]Then we have an associate, Victor DiChiro, decides to cooperate. So we go and we arrest him. So now we have three people in four months. So we take all their information, and they have to plead guilty, and they get a cooperation agreement. I explain all that. And when you have a cooperation agreement, as I mentioned before, Anthony was initially arrested for conspiracy to murder, and I believe it was stock fraud. When he pleads guilty, he has to plead guilty to all his crimes that he committed throughout his entire life. Off the top of my head, I remember he pled guilty to two murders. [23:23]11 murder conspiracies, boatload of extortions, and basically every other crime you could think of. And then the same thing with Vinny and Victor. We take all their information, and then we have our next series of indictments. So the first series was 39 indictments. And then the second series of indictments is in October of 2000, October 19th, which we just we just passed the 25th anniversary of that. And that was known as the hierarchy arrest, where we arrested the official boss, John Riggi. We arrested the two other panel bosses, Charlie Maggiore and Jimmy Palermo. We arrested the consigliere, Steve Vitabli, a bunch of captains and soldiers. So that’s a significant arrest, right? So now, as you know, when you have an arrest, there’s trials, there’s plea negotiations. So now we arrested 39 people plus another 13. We’re already up to like 50 something like something people out of that arrest. We get a little shockwave in the sense is that there’s an associate named Frank Scarabino. Frank Scarabino comes forward one day and tells us that there’s a contract on Anthony Capo’s family and Anthony Capo. [24:43]And also, there’s a contract on law enforcement. They want to go back to the old Sicilian ways and basically send a message. So, you know, that’s basically a little bit of a jolt where now we have to try to move Capo’s family. [25:03]Protecting Cooperators [24:59]And Capo’s in prison. He’s defenseless. And I explain all that. People have this sense of you go into the witness security program, you get a whole new life and you’re off and having a great time. They don’t realize that there are prisons within the United States that you have to go to prison. So I can’t say where the prisons are, but I kind of explain that process of how the WITSEC program works, which is run by the marshals. So that’s in that’s in the book as well. Yeah, they have a whole prisons that are just for people in WITSEC. I heard about a guy that said he was in one out west somewhere. Yeah. So and, you know, for those prisons, it’s not like you have to prove yourself. They’re all doing the same time. So they’re basically just trying to do their time and try to get out and get into the next phase of the WoodSec program. So that was kind of a jolt, right? So now we have Frank Scarabino cooperate. So now we have another person. So it’s the list is just getting more and more now. You got to stop taking cooperators and start putting people in jail for the rest of their life, man. [26:03]So it got to after that, we had like two more people cooperate. So we went from having nobody to having seven people cooperate in this period. And it’s interesting. And I know we’re going to go back and forth, but we went from 100 years of having no one to having seven people during this three year period. And since that time period, no other members have cooperated since. So we’ve started the clock again. I think we’re at 25 years plus again since no one cooperated during that period. And I mentioned the murder that we started this case, Joseph Canigliaro. So he was the guy that was in the wheelchair. So as I said, they wanted to kill him because he just tortured his crew. We were able, one of the guys who was initially arrested as part of the December 1999 arrest, he sees everybody’s, he is deciding to cooperate with the government. So he decides to cooperate. His name is Tommy DeTora. So Tommy DeTora decides to cooperate. He’s out on bail. So since he’s out on bail, we decide, let’s make him make a consensual recording. And he makes one of the best consensual recordings the Bureau has ever made. He gets everyone involved in that murder together. [27:28]And they talk about the murder from A to Z. It’s a priceless consensual recording that we used at trial. And it just, you know, one of the things that does stick in my mind is the shooter was Marty Lewis, who got a life sentence. [27:44]The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro [27:45]Marty Lewis is describing when he shot him. And he’s like, I shot him like five or six times in his car. Right. And then Marty Lewis gets out of the car. Joseph Canigliaro drives away, gets to the top of the block in Brooklyn, puts a signal on, put a signal on. And drove the traffic laws, drives to Joseph Wrightson’s house. A guy who was part of the murder conspiracy honks his horn for Joseph Wrightson to come downstairs. So can you imagine Joseph Wrightson looking down the window seeing the guy that’s supposed to be dead right now and telling him to get in the car to go to the hospital with him? [28:32]Unfortunately, when they go to the hospital one of the things that does happen is joseph brightson has uh unfortunately an nyp detective cop who’s a cousin and involves him in this as well and the cop takes shells from the car and he becomes he gets locked up by us as well they all go to trial they get convicted and. [28:55]You know, we also arrested a Genevieve’s captain related to the leak. So in total, I think the numbers were 71 defendants were convicted, 11 murders were solved, seven trials transpired. You know, as everyone knows, you have the arrest, but then you have the trials, right? And I know that from December 2002 up until November of 2003 was the year that I was on trial. There was three trials that I had, and then there was another trial. There was two trials that one was a mistrial. Then we had another trial. So during that one year, we had a year of trials, and the biggest trial I had went on for two months. [29:42]Life on Trial [29:38]So I basically had a year of no life where it was just trials. And as you know yourself, when you have trial, it’s not just you just show up at trial. You have trial prep beforehand. And then when you’re actually on trial every day, it’s 20, it’s 24, seven, you have a trial, you have trial, then at night you have to prep a witness. So there’s just constant stuff throughout the day. Yeah, really? It’s a, it’s a long, boring process for you guys. [30:05]You know, these are like what we would say the real Sopranos, you know, the Sopranos, Tom Soprano, and that’s kind of based on this New Jersey family. I tell you, that Soprano, so much of it was ripped from real life. I don’t know. They interviewed you for details. They interviewed some agents and looked some court cases in order to write those scripts. I know that. And in particular, I think of the gay member that was killed. [30:28]The Real Sopranos [30:27]You know, you guys had that down there. So there’s a lot of references in your book or things in the book that the guys will say, oh, yeah, they did that in the Sopranos. Can you tell us about some of them? [30:37]Well, the thing that was great, especially for trial, is in March of 1999, the show starts in January of 1999. And we have a consensual recording in March where we have DeCavocanti members talking about the show and them saying, saying, this is you, this is you, and this is you, which was priceless for trial. Right. It’s like a jury’s going to hear that. And even during the trial, the judge had to give the jury instructions about the show to make sure that it wouldn’t sway their decision. Then if you watch the show, the first season, the official boss in the show dies of stomach cancer. In real life, that’s happened in real life. In June of 1997, Jake Amari was the acting boss of the Decaval Canty family. He dies of stomach cancer. So that’s a… [31:40]It’s a part of the show right there. Then I know everyone sees the strip club, right? Well, the acting boss, as I told you at the time, Vincent Palermo, he had a strip club in Queens, Wiggles. [31:53]So there’s a similarity there. Then they have the meat market that they go to, right, back and forth in the show. That’s a real meat market. I don’t want to say the name of the real meat market here, but there is a real type of meat market there. We discussed the union angle, the two unions that they have. So there’s so many scams related to the unions. There’s the no show job, right, where you don’t have to show up to work. There’s the no work job where you come, but you don’t have to do any work at all. [32:26]Back then, what it was called was they had union halls, right, where you actually had to show up early in the morning. There’d be a line of people, and you would show up. It was called the shape up. and you would wait online and hopefully that you would get work that day. Well, the DeCable Cante members, they wouldn’t show up early and wait online. They would show up whenever they want and they would cut the line and they would get work. So these were their types of unions that they had. Then, as you mentioned, there was the gay angle too. So on the DeCable Cante real side, there was a guy named John D’Amato. And John D’Amato basically made himself the acting boss when John Riggie went to jail in the early 1990s. John D’Amato was part, was very close to John Gotti. There was a murder. It’s probably the most indictable murder in mob history called the murder of Fred Weiss. John Gotti wanted Fred Weiss killed because John Gotti thought that Fred Weiss was cooperating with the government. all because Fred Weiss switched lawyers. [33:35]He was paranoid that Fred Weiss was cooperating. So it became a race to kill Fred Weiss. So you had two mob families trying to kill him, the Decalvo Canty family and the Gambino family. So in total, I think either 15 people at least have either pled guilty or have been convicted of that murder. That murder happened on 9-11-1989, a horrible day, right? So, where I’m going is that happened in 89. In 1990, 1991, John D’Amato becomes the acting boss of the family. So, now he’s the acting boss of the DeKalb Alcanti family. John D’Amato had a girlfriend. His girlfriend starts to tell Anthony Capo that John D’Amato is going to sex clubs with her and they’re having sex with men. So this is this is brought to Anthony Capo’s attention. And he has to tell his superiors that we have a gay acting boss representing our family. And in his eyes, this cannot happen. Right. So he brings it to Vincent Palermo, brings it to Rudy Ferron, and the superiors that this is what’s happening. And they decide that he has to be killed. Now, also what he was doing was, and you speak to Anthony Rotondo, who also cooperated with the government. [34:58]John DeMotta was also stealing money from the family. He was borrowing money from the other families, telling him that it was for the DeCalbacanti family, but it was really to cover his game of the gambling losses that he was incurring. So those are two things that he was doing. Right. He was he was if you ask Anthony Rotondo, he says he was killed because of the gambling that he was incurring the losses. And if he asks Anthony Capo, he was killed because it was looking bad for our family, for their family, that he was a gay acting boss. And at that time, it wasn’t acceptable. Times have changed. But back then, it wasn’t an acceptable thing. And that’s similar to the show. There’s a gay angle within the show as well. [35:41]The Gay Angle in the Mob [35:42]Interesting. It’s the real Sopranos. I remember I watched that show, even going back and watch some of them every once in a while. And I just think, wow, that’s real. So, so even though the director says no one was speaking to them, it’s kind of ironic that there are a lot of like similarities between the show and real life. Yeah. And especially down there in New Jersey and, and, and their connection to the Bonanno family or to a New York, the New York families. And then also, and then also within the show is, is, is the stock stood. There’s also stocks. Oh yeah, the stock fraud. Yeah. They did a boiler room or something. And they were pumping and dumping stocks and Tony was making money out of that. So, yeah, that’s I’d forget. And then from and in real life, Bill Abrama was like the wizard of Wall Street. [36:37]So interesting. Well, you’ve had quite, quite a career. What do you think about New York organized crime now that today, you know, we just had quack, quack, Ruggiero, Ruggiero’s son and some other guys that were connected to families indicted for gambling. He’s got my gambling fraud. I haven’t really studied it yet. It is like they had some rig gambling games, which is common. Like in Kansas city, when I was working this, they would have, they would bring in guys who would love to gamble and had money businessmen. And then they’d, they’d play them for sure. They would cheat them and take a bunch of money from them. This was much more sophisticated, but that’s a, that’s a story that’s been going on a long time. You think that Bob is on a comeback from that? Ha, ha, ha, ha. [37:24]The mob has been around for 125 years. They’re not going to go away. Okay. They get smarter and they adapt. And it’s like, I haven’t read the indictment from head to toe, but they’ve used some, you know, sophisticated investigative techniques just to kind of con people. So they’re getting better, right? So some of the techniques that they use when you hear, it’s like some of the things that I saw where the poker tables that they use, the tables that they use were able to see the card. So they use some pretty, you know, slick techniques, you know, and then like some of the glasses or the contact lenses. So, you know, they’re not going to go away. They’re just going to keep on trying to rebuild. That’s why you have to continue to put resources towards them. Yeah. I think what people don’t understand for these mob guys, it’s if they don’t get out and go into legitimate business selling real estate or something like that. It’s it’s a constant scam a constant hustle every day to figure out another way to make money because they don’t have a paycheck coming in and so they got to figure out a way to make money and they got to make it fast and they got to make it big and in a short period of time it’s just constant every day every time they walk by knew a drug addict one time as a professional burglar and he said every time he’s in recovery he said every time i’ll buy a pharmacy he said in my mind I’m figuring out how to take that pharmacy off. So that’s the way these mob guys are. [38:52]And sports betting has been a staple of theirs forever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the apps are getting into them a little bit, but I see what’s going on now. Also, we had these players, Trailblazers coach and a couple, three players, are now helping people rig the bets. And you go to the apps, and you bet a bunch of money on some guy who’s going to have a bad day. And then he just doesn’t show up to work. You end up being the supervisor of the Columbo squad, I see. Same as after that DeCavoconte case, and you spent all that time, you ended up getting promoted to a supervisor and you must’ve been good because they kept you right there in New York and gave you another mob squad. I know one agent here in Kansas City that was promoted and he kept the one squad here, as they called it. [39:43]Leading the Columbo Squad [39:40]And that was really unusual. Usually it’d be somebody in from out of town. So that says something about you. So tell us about your experiences doing that. [39:48]Well, after we did this case, which was about six years, I was requested to go down to run the Columbo squad. And at that time, I think the Columbo squad had eight supervisors in eight years. I really thought I was too young to be a supervisor because I only had six years on. So I was basically voluntold, I would say, to go down there. And guys, that is young. I want to tell you something. I’ve seen a lot of different Bob squad supervisors come through here in Kansas City. And and they were all you know like 20 year agents 15 18 year agents that came from somewhere else so yeah so you know again I thought I was just way too young to be a supervisor as I said I was just on the job for about six years and I was voluntold to go down there yeah and I said if I’m going to go down there there’s a couple of things just based upon what I saw a I’m not a yes man and two the squad needs some sort of stability so I went down there and I was able to stay there I was there from actually December of 2004 all the way up until June of 2013. [40:51]So we at that time when I first got there we really didn’t have a lot of cases going trying to go on so I was able to change the tactics right because I think juries had changed at that point in time where instead of having a historical witness just go on to stand and tell things, now we had shows out there, right? You had NCIS where the whole DNA-type stuff came in, so I had to change our approach, and proactive witnesses making consensual recordings were the way to go. And I think during a seven-year time period, our squad. [41:24]Did an amazing job. Now it went from C10. I went, the squad went down to, it became C38. And we made probably 1,800 recordings in a seven and a half year time period. So, which is an amazing amount of recordings. So, a lot of transcriptions too. A lot of transcriptions. And I, you know, a three-hour tape could take you a day to listen to because you’re just trying to find that little piece of information. Yeah. Because a lot of it is just talk, right? Yeah. So I think our first big case was in June of 2008. And we took down the acting boss, a bunch of captains. And that’s when things really started to take off. We had a violent soldier cooperate named Joseph Compatiello. And, you know, we talk about proffers. His first proffer, he comes in and he basically tells us that there are three bodies buried right next to each other. So the layman would think, OK, they’re right next to each other. They weren’t right next to each other they were about 1.1 miles apart from each other. [42:28]And you could be in your your room there and we’re trying to find a body it’s really hard to find so we were actually able to find two of the bodies one of the bodies was a guy named while Bill Cattullo he was the under boss of the Colombo family we found him in Formingdale Long Island he was behind a berm we were out there for about eight days and each day you know I’m getting pressure from my superiors. We’re going to find something because there’s a lot of press out there. There was another victim named Cormone Gargano who was buried. He was killed in 1994 and buried out there. Unfortunately, there was a new building built. [43:06]And we could not find him there, but he was initially killed at a body shop in Brooklyn, and they buried him in Brooklyn, and then they decided to dig him up and bring him out to Long Island. So we went back to the body shop. What the Colombo family used to do, though, is they used to kill you, bury you, and put lime on top of the body. What lime does is it kills the smell, but preserves the body. Oh, I didn’t realize that. I thought it was supposed to deteriorate the body too. I think most people bought that. So good information. So, so when we found wall of bill, basically from his, from his hips up were intact. Oh, And when related to Cormier Gargano, because they had killed him in the body shop and then dug him up and brought him out to Long Island. We went back to the shop and figuring, let’s see if we can actually see if there’s any parts of him there. And there actually were. And we’re able to get DNA and tie it back and confirm it was him. [44:15]Major Arrests and Cases [44:12]So that’s how that dismantling of the Colombo family started. And then just to fast forward a little bit in January 2011, we have I spearhead the largest FBI mob arrest where we arrested 127 people that day across the states and also went to Italy, too, to take down people. [44:32]And after that, the Bureau decides to reduce the resources dedicated to organized crime. And I then get the Bonanno family back. So C-10 merges back into my squad. And then I have the Bananos, the Columbos, and the Decafacanthes as well. So now I have all three families back. And I basically run that for another two years. And I guess my last official act as a supervisor is related to Goodfellas, where Jimmy Burke had buried a body in his basement. We saw a 43-year-old cold case murder where he killed an individual named Paul Katz, buried him in his basement. And when he went away for the point shaving, the Boston College point shaving case, well, he killed him in 1969, buried him in his basement. Then he goes to jail in the 80s. He gets fearful that the cops that he had on his payroll back in the 60s were going to talk. So he decides to have our witness at the time, Gaspar Valenti, who came forward back in the 80s, moved the body with Vincent S. Our son so they move the body but again they’re not professional so pieces are going to be back there so in 2013 we go back and we dig and we actually find pieces of paul cats and we tie that to dna to his son to his son and we confirm that it was him. [45:57]So that was my last official act as a supervisor. Talk about art, art, imitating life again, you know, in the Goodfellas, they dug up a body. In the Sopranos, they dug up a body. I think I saw another show where they dug up a body. One of them, they were like, man, this smells. [46:13]I mean, can you imagine that going back and having to dig up a body? And then, you know, and, you know, they’re just wearing t-shirts and jeans and maybe leather gloves. And they’d have to deal with all that stuff and put it in some kind of a bag can take it somewhere else oh my god you know i have a question while bill cutello that this guy was part of the the hit team that took him out do you remember anything about right i’m trying to remember i’ve read this story once he was kind of like more of a peacemaker and and if i remember right you remember what the deal was with him well back like what happens is in the early 1990s there’s a colombo war right you have the persicos versus the arena faction and one thing about the Colombos and the Persicos, they never forget. So in the early 1990s, while Bill Cotullo was on the arena side, and as I said, there was a war where approximately 13 people were killed. In the late 1990s, Ali Persico was going to be going to jail, and while Bill Cotullo thought that Ali was going to go to jail and that he would take over the family, Ali didn’t want that to happen. So basically while Vilcunzulo thought he was getting the keys to the kingdom and they were going to kill him. [47:28]And what they did is they lured him to Dino Saraceno’s house in Brooklyn and Dino Calabro lured him into the basement and shot him in the back of the head. And we had all these guys then decide to cooperate. As I said, Joe Caves was the first person to cooperate. Dino Calabro cooperated. [47:48]Sebi Saraceno cooperated. So we had a whole host of people cooperate and we were able to dismantle the Colombo family. And I’ve been extremely blessed to be part of teams that have dismantled three families, Bananos, the Columbos, and the D. Calacanti family. So, you know, as I said, and it’s never just one person. It’s always teammates, partners, and also other supervisors that I’ve had. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, it does take a lot of people to take those down. When you’re writing books, you try to make sure everybody gets a little bit of credit. Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, the thing that was that was, you know, crazy when related to the recovery of Wild Bill is we had our evidence response team out there. And, you know, the witness takes us out there to show us where he thinks the bodies are buried. And related to Wild Bill, it was in the back of a field. And he kept on saying it was behind a berm. So we took him back there and he showed us where he thought it was. So we had our evidence response team dig. And they basically dug us an Olympic-sized pool. [48:57]We could not find him. So there was two other sites that we were trying to look at because Richie Greaves was supposed to be next to the train tracks. And as I mentioned, Cormac Gargano was next to a building that had been replaced. So my squad, actually our squad, C-38, decides, Seamus, do you mind if we get some shovels? So I was like, sure. So there was, because we were just looking at each other at the time. So my team, Vincent D’Agostino, they’re pretty close by. He got some shovels and came back. And there was like six of us. And we just started digging ourselves. So we dug in one area, nothing. Then another agent basically said, let’s dig over here. [49:38]And sure enough, like talk about, you know, I always say hard work leads to good luck. We started digging and then we found the white stuff. We found the line and jackpot. It was while Bill, he was hogtied face down with his feet up. And as soon as I saw the white stuff and then I saw, you know, like his foot, then we stopped and I said, let me go get the professionals. I ran over, I drove over, and I got the team leader from ERT. She got in the car. And, you know, of course, she’s very excited. I was like, you know, we F.M. got him, you know. And so I drove her back over there. And that’s when you kind of contain the crime scene. And we were able to find him. But, you know, it was our squad that found him. And then, as I said before, then, you know, our squad decides to go back to the body shop. And we found remnants of Carmine Gargano there. So the squad just did an amazing job but really we basically found two bodies ourselves you know and i think in my career i’ve been extremely blessed to find five you know which is just crazy well that’s not something those accountants and lawyers and stuff were trained for you need to get those former cops out there on those shovels and digging for bodies. [50:57]Final Thoughts and Stories [50:57]Well interesting this this has really been fun seamus any any other stories you can think of You want to you want to just want to tell just busting to make sure people know that’s in this book. I tell you what, guys, this is an interesting book. It’s it’s, you know, as I said, those kinds of stories and the procedures and how FBI works. There’s there’s a lot of stories in there. I don’t want to give to give the book away. You know, there’s a lot of stories even. Yeah. You know, there’s an even during that year of trials. There’s plenty of stories there. There was a blackout that that year, too. So there’s a lot of stories related to that. You know, even even the trials, there’s a lot of things that came up at trial. So I don’t want to give to give those stories away. But I think it’s a good read. As I said, I think it’s one of the few books that actually explains things because, you know, I think the public hears these words, but they don’t know what these words mean. And I just think it’s important that they do know what it means, because there’s a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, especially with the jury. Right. You know, the jury only sees what they see. There’s a lot of things that go on when the jury leaves the room between the government, the judge and also the defense attorney. So I try to bring to shed some light related to that as well. [52:13]Interesting. Well, Seamus McElherney. And the book is Flipping Capo. That’s Anthony Capo. The first guy to be flipped in the Cavalcante family ever, which led to a cascade of other mob guys flipping, didn’t it? [52:32]Sure did. Just like in a Bonanno family, you know, they start flipping there. And it just, I didn’t know where it was ever going to end. Finally, it ended. [52:41]It sure did. Well, I have to say, it’s been great to meet you. I wish you continued success. And this has been a lot of fun. All right. Yeah, it’s been great to have you on Seamus. Thanks a lot. Don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So when you’re out on the streets there and you’re a big F-150, watch out for those little motorcycles when you’re out. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website. They’ll help with your drugs and alcohol problem if you’ve got that problem or gambling. If not, you can go to Anthony Ruggiano. He’s a counselor down in Florida. He’s got a hotline on his website. If you’ve got a problem with gambling, most states will have, if you have gambling, most states will have a hotline number to call. Just have to search around for it. You know, I’ve always got stuff to sell. I got my books. I got my movies. They’re all on Amazon. I got links down below in the show notes and just go to my Amazon sales page and you can figure out what to do. I really appreciate y’all tuning in and we’ll keep coming back and doing this. Thanks guys.

Zohran Mamdani continues to have questionable elements of his background exposed. Wednesday...some New Yorkers were outraged after Zohran Mamdani endorsed Aber Kawas for a position on the New York State Assembly. Video footage was released showing Aber Kawas...essentially blaming America for the attacks on the World Trade Center. Old social media posts from one of Zohran Mamdani aides...revealed disturbing posts which outraged the Jewish community in New York City. We discuss the ongoing exposure of Zohran Mamdani. We compare Zohran Mamdani to Barack Obama...and explain why Zohran Mamdani is a warning to the rest of America. USE PROMO CODE BTL35 TO SAVE 35% WITH SUGAR MOUNTAIN TRADING: https://sugarmountaintrading.com

Dive into the darkest corners of reality with Walter Sterling, filling in for Lionel. This all-night radio program challenges the comforting delusion that Americans cannot keep big secrets, proving that major conspiracies—like lizard men and UFOs—must be true. We tackle explosive, out-there theories: the 9/11 controlled demolition, including the alleged role of figures like Cheney and Wolfowitz, and the fate of gold bullion rumored to have been stored beneath the World Trade Center. Unpack the claim that the JFK assassination was entirely staged using special effects bladders. We also dive into secret missions, including Apollo missions that allegedly recovered the "Mona Lisa" alien on the moon, and the truth behind Bell Labs buying up most of Roswell, New Mexico. Plus, uncover alleged financial and governmental corruption, questioning why road tolls persist long after municipal bonds are paid off, and exposing the sinister "conspiracy" surrounding chronic pain management that allegedly forces patients into costly procedures instead of prescribing cheap, effective medication. Tune in for conflict, drama, and highly addictive wacky news in our "Florida Stories" segment. Get ready for the secrets They don't want you to know. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dive into the darkest corners of reality with host Walter Sterling filling in for Lionel and guest expert Dave Scott, a known Canadian and host of Spaced Out Radio. This is all-night radio at its best: live, top of mind, and asking the crucial question: who's in charge of everything?.The show challenges the comforting delusion that Americans cannot keep big secrets. Sterling argues that major conspiracies—like a controlled demolition bringing down the World Trade Center or the existence of UFOs and lizard men—must be true because hundreds of people can keep their mouths shut, a fact proven by every boy knowing how to see into the girls' locker room in high school.Topics explored include the 9/11 controlled demolition theories, including the potential role of expensive asbestos removal, the truth behind Bell Labs buying up most of Roswell, New Mexico, and the fate of the surviving alien from the 1947 crash. Plus, deep dives into UFO technology allegedly 120 years ahead of public knowledge and now potentially housed in private corporate hands like Lockheed Skunk Works. Finally, unpack the wildest theory of all: that the JFK assassination was staged using special effects bladders, and no shots were actually fired in Daily Plaza. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of The Other Side of Midnight, guest-hosted by Walter M. Sterling, delivers entertaining and informative live radio on the Red Apple Podcast Network. Get ready for conflict and drama as callers debate explosive national conspiracies. Topics include 9/11 theories alleging a controlled demolition orchestrated by figures like Cheney and Wolfowitz to start a war for oil. The show also investigates the fate of gold bullion rumored to have been stored beneath the World Trade Center. Plus, uncover the alleged conspiracy surrounding billions of dollars in toll money that critics claim does not go toward road repair, and examine how doctors are prevented from prescribing cheap, effective pain medication, forcing patients into painful and profitable "pain management" clinics. We also revisit the "Wild West" days of uncensored cable television and explore the nuances of state versus federal arrests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textGUEST: ALEX NEWMAN, president, Liberty Sentinel MediaIt's America's largest and most well-known city. It's the financial center of the country and even the world for free markets. Twenty-four years ago, the most prominent buildings in the city—the World Trade Center—crumbled to the ground after Islamists hijacked commercial airplanes and flew them into the buildings, causing nearly 3000 deaths.So how to explain that New York City just elected a Muslim socialist to be its mayor?Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani is not moderate. He is anti-Israel at his core. And he's anti-American—he is a self-identifying member of the Democratic Socialists of America, which opposes traditional American values of limited government, individual liberties, and free markets. In short, Mamdani is the personification of the “Red-Green Alliance,” the intersectional partnership of Communists and Islamists with the common goal of toppling America and Christianity.The left won almost everywhere in the first election since President Trump entered the White House this past January. Virginians voted for a Democrat super-majority in their state. Seattle elected a Democrat Socialist for mayor and Minneapolis nearly did as well.In a recent program, we discussed the rise of Islam in Western Europe and how the line may have been crossed for an Islamic future. But is the same thing happening in America, in places like New York City, Dearborn, Michigan, Minneapolis, and in Texas, where a large Islamic development is being proposed near Dallas?Alex Newman, Christian author and journalist at Liberty Sentinel Media, joins us this weekend on The Christian Worldview to discuss the rise of Islam in America and why it needs to be stopped. He will also discuss other events nationally and abroad, including the rise in political violence on the left and anti-Israel sentiment on the right.----------------------Manger in Danger for a donation for $30 or more - A new family Christmas tradition!

This BCR program opened with a bit of Richard Harris' rendition of "MacArthur Park" and then quoted Daniel Libeskind -- whose architectural firm rebuilt the World Trade Center site; he described the slurry wall that held back the Hudson River after the collapse of the Towers as “an engineering wonder” and like the US Constitution – was a symbol of the “the durability of democracy and the value of human life.” We then asked is our democracy a melting cake or an indomitable slurry wall?In the fall of 2011 – young Americans took over a private park near Wall Street -- they set up camp and built a thriving community -- and for 59 days the 99% protested the 1%. Could Zuccotti Park happen today?Rebecca McKean and I had a ranging conversation with Lynne Elizabeth the founding director of the New Village Press -- publishing progressive books in the humanities and social sciences. Ms. Elizabeth was a past president and active member of Architects, Designers, Planners for Social Responsibility, which produced programs for peace, environmental protection, and social justice. And we talked with Wendy E. Brawer, a designer, social innovator, consultant, speaker and the creator of Green Map System. Wendy is one of UTNE's [ chutney ] ”50 Visionaries Changing Your World.” She was the Designer in Residence at the Smithsonian National Design Museum and a 2017 TED Resident. And she is an active cyclist.Our conversation focused on the New Village Press 2012 book -- "Beyond Zuccotti Park: Freedom of Assembly and the Occupation of Public Space" and Occupy Wallstreet.Alan Winsonbarcrawlradio@gmail.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

durée : 00:02:41 - Regarde le monde - C'est son rituel, immuable, deux fois par an, à dates fixes, Mme Lygin se rend à New York. Elle y va d'abord le 16 janvier, parce que c'était l'anniversaire de son fils, Alexander, et y retourne le 11 septembre, parce que son nom figure sur la liste des victimes du World Trade Center. Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les autres épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France.

durée : 00:02:41 - Regarde le monde - C'est son rituel, immuable, deux fois par an, à dates fixes, Mme Lygin se rend à New York. Elle y va d'abord le 16 janvier, parce que c'était l'anniversaire de son fils, Alexander, et y retourne le 11 septembre, parce que son nom figure sur la liste des victimes du World Trade Center. Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les autres épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France.

The Wiz (1978) was chosen by show supporter Maff, who's got a talent for picking bold, imaginative movies that really stand out from the pack. This time, he's gone for one of the most ambitious musical productions ever made. The Wiz was Universal's lavish reimagining of The Wizard of Oz, retold through the lens of African American culture and late-1970s New York style. Directed by Sidney Lumet — more famous for his gritty urban dramas like Serpico and Dog Day Afternoon — the film brought together an all-star cast including Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russell, Lena Horne, and Richard Pryor. With a staggering $24 million budget, it was one of the most expensive musicals of its era, aiming to blend Broadway magic with the spectacle of big-screen fantasy.The production was a monumental undertaking. Filming took place across New York City landmarks like the World Trade Center, the New York State Pavilion, and the Cyclone rollercoaster in Coney Island, all transformed into surreal fantasy settings. Legendary producer Quincy Jones oversaw the music, infusing the original Broadway score with disco, funk, and gospel influences. Despite its breathtaking ambition, The Wiz was plagued by production challenges, critical skepticism, and financial losses on release. However, in the years since, it has earned cult classic status — celebrated for its stunning visuals, imaginative choreography, and Michael Jackson's breakout film performance. It may not have conquered the box office, but The Wiz remains a vibrant, soulful experiment that dared to take Oz somewhere entirely new.If you enjoy the show, we have a Patreon, so become a supporter ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.Referral links also help out the show if you were going to sign up:⁠⁠⁠NordVPN⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠NordPass⁠⁠⁠Trailer Guy Plot SummaryShe wanted something more… but she never imagined this.When a storm sweeps a shy Harlem schoolteacher into a world unlike anything she's ever known, she must follow the road, face her fears, and find her way home — with the help of some unforgettable friends.Starring Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, and Richard Pryor — from the streets of New York to the land of Oz, it's a journey of music, magic, and pure 1970s soul.*The Wiz* — ease on down the road to where dreams, disco, and destiny collide.Fun FactsThe Wiz began as a Broadway musical in 1975, which won seven Tony Awards, including Best Musical — long before the movie version was made.Motown Productions co-financed the film, marking one of the first major studio partnerships between Hollywood and a Black-owned entertainment company.Michael Jackson was only 19 years old when he starred as the Scarecrow — and the experience led to his lifelong creative partnership with Quincy Jones.The film's costume designer, Tony Walton, created over 300 costumes, many of which were made from recycled materials to give the movie's world a gritty, urban feel.Sidney Lumet's wife, Gail Jones, the daughter of Lena Horne, helped convince Lumet to take on the project despite his lack of musical experience.The movie's version of “Ease on Down the Road” became a chart-topping hit for Diana Ross and Michael Jackson, reaching #41 on the Billboard Hot 100.The yellow brick road was constructed from real vinyl flooring, giving it that glossy, otherworldly shine seen in the film.The production used over 650 dancers for the film's large-scale musical sequences — one of the biggest ensembles ever assembled for a musical at the time.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thevhsstrikesback@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/vhsstrikesback⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Joy Bailey-Bryant, Lord Cultural Resources President, returns to the show as The Center for Black Excellence and Culture building comes to completion. As an expert in cultural spaces and innovative museums, Baily-Bryant is involved in supporting the development of The Center for Black Excellence and Culture in Madison, WI. They connect over shared Black culture and tell stories of the power of preserving culture, demonstrating the resilient power of culture that has space to speak into itself. As leader of cultural planning at the largest cultural consultancy in the world, Joy works with city officials, institutional leaders, and developers, in global municipalities like Chicago; New York; Dhaka, Bangladesh; and Dharan, Saudi Arabia to creatively plan cities and bring people (life!) to public institutions. Joy led the teams for institutional and cultural planning on remarkable projects like the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington, D.C., reaching more than 1,000 stakeholders across the country to learn their expectations for the new museum; the National September 11 Memorial and Museum at the World Trade Center, directing citywide engagement in locations as large as Chicago and small as Decatur, Georgia – speaking with thousands of individuals in meetings and on social media – to assess, project, and plan for their cultural needs; and planning and opening the expansion of the Albany Civil Rights Institute in Albany, Georgia—unearthing thousands of untold stories of the Southwest Georgia Civil Rights Movement.  A cultural planning specialist, certified interpretive planner, and outreach facilitator, Joy honed her specialized skill working in collaborative roles at the Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS) and notable cultural planning projects. alexgee.com Support the Show: patreon.com/blacklikeme Join the Black Like Me Listener Community Facebook Group

My friend, Nathan, was on the 61st floor of Tower Two that September day when a hijacked jetliner flew into the World Trade Center. I interviewed him for a broadcast, and I was pretty deeply moved by the story Nathan told. He was coming out of the restroom when he remembers seeing a piece of burning paper floating by the window. That was his first hint of the horror that was to follow. As people began to realize they might be in danger, they did what my friend did - they headed for the stairwell. Nathan's account took me right into those stairwells, ultimately jammed with screaming people, through the terror of first the smoke starting to fill the stairwell and then finally the quake when a plane hit their building. Our friend finally made it to the soot-covered lobby, and that's where he saw the faces he said he would never forget. He told me, "I started seeing some of the rescue workers for the first time heading toward the stairwells and directing us out. You can still remember the looks on some of those faces. They were looking just as scared as I was, I'm sure. They're some of the people that helped save my life, and they never made it out themselves." I'm Ron Hutchcraft and I want to have A Word With You today about "Your Only Hope Of Making It Out." My friend told me he'll be forever grateful to those rescuers who gave their lives so people like him didn't have to. He literally owes his life to them. I wasn't at the World Trade Center that awful day. But I understand a little of how my friend feels about those rescuers because I know someone who gave His life so I don't have to die. I owe my life to Him. He's the Son of God. His name is Jesus. He rescued me. He wants to rescue you if you'll let Him. Just before Jesus' arrival on earth, his earthly father, Joseph, was given instructions from heaven about this baby who would soon be born. In it - even before the Son of God spent His first day as one of us - His rescue mission was announced. It's in our word for today from the Word of God, Matthew 1:21 says, "You are to give Him the name Jesus (that means deliverer or rescuer), because He will save His people from their sins." Save. That's what those courageous rescuers did for my friend. They saved him from a deadly situation he could not get himself out of. That's what Jesus came to do for you and me. Our deadly situation isn't a burning or a collapsing building; it's the eternal death penalty that the Bible says is what our sin will cost. We have hijacked the control of our life from the eternal God who made us and that has eternal deadly consequences - eternal separation from God. But God loves you more than you can imagine. That's why He sent His one and only Son into our "collapsing building," up the stairwell to rescue us. And Jesus' death on that cross was the moment when He was taking the hell that you and I deserve. He was dying so you don't have to. Today, Jesus has come to where you are to bring you out. But He's your personal Rescuer only if you personally reach out and grab His hand as your only hope of getting out. As you reach out to Him and say, "Jesus, I have no hope of getting out from under the penalty of my sin but what You did on the cross to take it for me. No religion can get me to heaven. No amount of goodness can get me to heaven. I can't get me there. I need a Rescuer, and Jesus, you are my Rescuer beginning today. I pin all my hopes on you." Let me ask you, let me urge you, to go to our website - ANewStory.com. Because right there you will have all the information you will need to confirm that you really belong to Jesus Christ and you are rescued. I am a man who owes my life to the Man who brought me out at the highest possible cost to Him. He wants to do that for you. He laid down His life to rescue you, my friend. Please don't live - please don't die - without Him.

He lost his best friend. I lost my dad. Twenty-five years after September 11th, we sit down to talk about that day, the years of grief that followed, and the love that still connects us.In this powerful conversation, my Uncle Augie — my dad's best friend — shares what it was like inside the World Trade Center that morning, how survival guilt shaped his life, and the lessons we've both learned about love, loss, and legacy.

The provided audio excerpts feature a speaker discussing a conspiracy theory connecting the recent crash of UPS Flight 2976 with the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the simultaneous death of Dick Cheney. The speaker points out numerous "coded" correlations, such as the flight number matching the official 9/11 death toll (2976) and the altitude of the crash relating to the second plane that struck the World Trade Center (Flight 175). Furthermore, the speaker links the crash's location (Muhammad Ali airport) and the election of a Muslim mayor in New York City to an alleged pattern of intentional, scripted media events designed to produce irony and symbolism. The speaker rejects the idea that these connections are merely coincidence, suggesting instead that major events are pre-planned simulations orchestrated by the same powerful entities.That is a very interesting request, especially given how much of the source material is focused on examining patterns and connections. It is certainly helpful to isolate the specific claims and observations made by the speaker.Here are five quotes from the source material, followed by a list of the connections the speaker observed:"Flight 2976 UPS crash 2976 911 death toll." (This quote is the speaker's original tweet that drew the connection between the flight number and the number of 9/11 fatalities.)"It's not like the media is objectively just reporting stuff for us. Um, everything has an agenda." (This captures the speaker's core belief about mainstream media reporting.)"What we're suggesting here is this coincidence the result of intentionality? Was it scheduled? Was it faked?" (This clarifies the central question of the speaker's open inquiry into the event.)"To go outside of that box and include other possibilities such as pre-scheduled scripted events. Uh that would be something you would reach with an open mind, open inquiry outside their closed system." (This explains the speaker's view of what constitutes "open-mindedness" regarding major media events.)"No, the purpose of media is to conform you to their prefabricated events." (This defines the speaker's asserted primary function of media.)The speaker uses the term "coincidence" to describe a series of connections between the UPS Flight 2976 crash and the 9/11 events, suggesting that these connections indicate "intentionality," "scheduling," or "scripting".The specific connections noted are:Flight Number/Death Toll Match: The flight number, 2976, matches the official 9/11 death toll (2,976).Altitude Correlation: The plane reached 175 ft. This number correlates with United Airlines Flight 175, which was the second plane to hit the World Trade Center on 9/11.Airport/Hijacker Name: The crash occurred near the Muhammad Ali airport. Muhammad Ata was the lead hijacker in the 9/11 attacks.Contemporaneous Terror Plot: There was a breaking terror plot in Dearborn, Michigan, involving individuals named Muhammad Ali and Muham Mount Moot.Fatalities in Wiki: At one point, the total fatalities listed on the Wiki page for the event was 911 (though the speaker notes it had previously been 411).Dick Cheney's Timing: The crash occurred on the same day that Dick Cheney died. Cheney is noted to have a historical association with 9/11.Visual Symbolism (Plane Hitting Building): The plane crashed into a building, which the speaker notes is reminiscent of the Pentagon or the Twin Towers, along with the subsequent dramatic flames.Visual Symbolism (Faces in Smoke): The side view of the explosion in the Wikipedia article looked like a giant cat face. This is compared to a famous example of a devil face seen in the smoke photography of 9/11.Political/Irony Theme: The crash followed Zohan winning the mayoralty of New York City. This led to a flood of 9/11 imagery and people noticing the irony of New York electing a Muslim mayor followed by a plane hitting a building.5 Selected QuotesList of Coincidences and Connections

9/11 Coded UPS Plane CrashThe provided audio excerpts feature a speaker discussing a conspiracy theory connecting the recent crash of UPS Flight 2976 with the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the simultaneous death of Dick Cheney. The speaker points out numerous "coded" correlations, such as the flight number matching the official 9/11 death toll (2976) and the altitude of the crash relating to the second plane that struck the World Trade Center (Flight 175). Furthermore, the speaker links the crash's location (Muhammad Ali airport) and the election of a Muslim mayor in New York City to an alleged pattern of intentional, scripted media events designed to produce irony and symbolism. The speaker rejects the idea that these connections are merely coincidence, suggesting instead that major events are pre-planned simulations orchestrated by the same powerful entities.That is a very interesting request, especially given how much of the source material is focused on examining patterns and connections. It is certainly helpful to isolate the specific claims and observations made by the speaker.Here are five quotes from the source material, followed by a list of the connections the speaker observed:5 Selected Quotes"Flight 2976 UPS crash 2976 911 death toll." (This quote is the speaker's original tweet that drew the connection between the flight number and the number of 9/11 fatalities.)"It's not like the media is objectively just reporting stuff for us. Um, everything has an agenda." (This captures the speaker's core belief about mainstream media reporting.)"What we're suggesting here is this coincidence the result of intentionality? Was it scheduled? Was it faked?" (This clarifies the central question of the speaker's open inquiry into the event.)"To go outside of that box and include other possibilities such as pre-scheduled scripted events. Uh that would be something you would reach with an open mind, open inquiry outside their closed system." (This explains the speaker's view of what constitutes "open-mindedness" regarding major media events.)"No, the purpose of media is to conform you to their prefabricated events." (This defines the speaker's asserted primary function of media.)List of Coincidences and ConnectionsThe speaker uses the term "coincidence" to describe a series of connections between the UPS Flight 2976 crash and the 9/11 events, suggesting that these connections indicate "intentionality," "scheduling," or "scripting".The specific connections noted are:Flight Number/Death Toll Match: The flight number, 2976, matches the official 9/11 death toll (2,976).Altitude Correlation: The plane reached 175 ft. This number correlates with United Airlines Flight 175, which was the second plane to hit the World Trade Center on 9/11.Airport/Hijacker Name: The crash occurred near the Muhammad Ali airport. Muhammad Ata was the lead hijacker in the 9/11 attacks.Contemporaneous Terror Plot: There was a breaking terror plot in Dearborn, Michigan, involving individuals named Muhammad Ali and Muham Mount Moot.Fatalities in Wiki: At one point, the total fatalities listed on the Wiki page for the event was 911 (though the speaker notes it had previously been 411).Dick Cheney's Timing: The crash occurred on the same day that Dick Cheney died. Cheney is noted to have a historical association with 9/11.Visual Symbolism (Plane Hitting Building): The plane crashed into a building, which the speaker notes is reminiscent of the Pentagon or the Twin Towers, along with the subsequent dramatic flames.Visual Symbolism (Faces in Smoke): The side view of the explosion in the Wikipedia article looked like a giant cat face. This is compared to a famous example of a devil face seen in the smoke photography of 9/11.Political/Irony Theme: The crash followed Zohan winning the mayoralty of New York City. This led to a flood of 9/11 imagery and people noticing the irony of New York electing a Muslim mayor followed by a plane hitting a building.

Grey Bull Rescue helps innocent Americans who are stranded, imprisoned, or otherwise trapped in dangerous situations around the globe.  BRYAN STERN founded Grey Bull in August 2021, during the fall of Afghanistan. Since that time, Grey Bull has helped rescue more than 8,000 Americans in 800 different missions.  Stern's own story begins decades earlier. As a young Army intelligence officer, he was at Ground Zero on the day of 9/11, and narrowly avoided being trapped by the collapsing towers. He went on to serve a full and highly decorated military career.  In this episode, Stern discusses his path from the World Trade Center to today, and the missions he and his team of brave volunteers conduct around the globe today.  Don't forget to subscribe or follow us on the podcast service of your choice. If you already subscribe, we'd really appreciate a 5-star review: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crazy-good-turns/id1137217687 We appreciate your listening and sharing our episodes. Thank you!   

The leading cause of death for Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers is COVID-19 followed by cancer linked to the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center,according to a Mother Jones report. ICE data reviewed by the outlet showed that deaths and assaults at the agency are not outsized compared to other law enforcement, despite the Trump administration’s claims that their work is exceptionally dangerous. Noah Lanard is a reporter for Mother Jones and covered the story. He joins us with details of what he found in the data.

What does it take to keep a family business thriving for generations? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I talk with Jan Southern, a seasoned business advisor who helps family-owned companies build long-term success through structure, trust, and clarity. We explore why so many family firms lose their way by the third generation—and what can be done right now to change that story. Jan shares how documenting processes, empowering people, and aligning goals can turn complexity into confidence. We unpack her “Three Ps” framework—People, Process, and Product—and discuss how strong leadership, accountability, and smart AI adoption keep growth steady and sustainable. If you've ever wondered what separates businesses that fade from those that flourish, this conversation will show you how to turn structure into freedom and process into legacy. Highlights: 00:10 – Why unexpected stories reveal how real businesses grow. 01:39 – How early life in Liberal, Kansas shaped a strong work ethic. 07:51 – What a 10,000 sq ft HQ build-out teaches about operations. 09:35 – How a trading floor was rebuilt in 36 hours and why speed matters. 11:21 – Why acquisitions fail without tribal knowledge and culture continuity. 13:19 – What Ferguson Alliance does for mid-market family businesses. 14:08 – Why many family firms don't make it to the third generation. 17:33 – How the 3 Ps—people, process, product—create durable growth. 20:49 – Why empowerment and clear decision rights prevent costly delays. 33:02 – The step-by-step process mapping approach that builds buy-in. 36:41 – Who should sponsor change and how to align managers. 49:36 – Why process docs and succession planning start on day one. 56:21 – Realistic timelines: six weeks to ninety days and beyond. 58:19 – How referrals expand projects across departments. About the Guest: With over 40 years of experience in the realm of business optimization and cost-effective strategies, Jan is a seasoned professional dedicated to revolutionizing company efficiency. From collaborating with large corporations encompassing over 1,000 employees to small 2-person offices, Jan's expertise lies in meticulously analyzing financials, processes, policies and procedures to drive enhanced performance. Since joining Ferguson Alliance in 2024, Jan has become a Certified Exit Planning Advisor and is currently in the process of certification in Artificial Intelligence Consulting and Implementation, adding to her ability to quickly provide businesses with an assessment and tools that will enhance their prosperity in today's competitive landscape. Jan's forte lies in crafting solutions that align with each client's vision, bolstering their bottom line and staffing dynamics. Adept in setting policies that align with company objectives, Jan is renowned for transforming challenges into opportunities for growth and longevity. With a knack for unraveling inefficiencies and analyzing net income, Jan is a go-to expert for family-owned businesses looking to extend their legacy into future generations. Ways to connect with Jan: Email address : Jan@Ferguson-Alliance.com Phone: 713 851 2229 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jansouthern cepa Website: https://ferguson alliance.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone. I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. But the neat thing about it is we don't usually deal with inclusion or diversity. We deal with everything, but that because people come on this podcast to tell their own stories, and that's what we get to do today with Jan southern not necessarily anything profound about inclusion or diversity, but certainly the unexpected. And I'm sure we're going to figure out how that happens and what's unexpected about whatever I got to tell you. Before we started, we were just sitting here telling a few puns back and forth. Oh, well, we could always do that, Jan, well, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. Any puns before we start?   Jan Southern ** 02:09 No, I think we've had enough of those. I think we did it   Michael Hingson ** 02:11 in, huh? Yes. Well, cool. Well, I want to thank you for being here. Jan has been very actively involved in a lot of things dealing with business and helping people and companies of all sizes, companies of all sizes. I don't know about people of all sizes, but companies of all sizes in terms of becoming more effective and being well, I'll just use the term resilient, but we'll get into that. But right now, let's talk about the early Jan. Tell us about Jan growing up and all that sort of stuff that's always fun to start with.   Jan Southern ** 02:50 Yes, I grew up in Liberal Kansas, which is a small town just north of the Oklahoma border and a little bit east of New Mexico kind of down in that little Four Corners area. And I grew up in the time when we could leave our house in the morning on the weekends and come home just before dusk at night, and our parents didn't panic, you know. So it was a good it was a good time growing up. I i lived right across the street from the junior high and high school, so I had a hugely long walk to work, I mean,   Michael Hingson ** 03:28 to school,   Jan Southern ** 03:30 yeah, and so, you know, was a, was a cheerleader in high school, and went to college, then at Oklahoma State, and graduated from there, and here I am in the work world. I've been working since I was about 20 years old, and I'd hate to tell you how many years that's been.   Michael Hingson ** 03:51 You can if you want. I won't tell   03:55 nobody will know.   Michael Hingson ** 03:57 Good point. Well, I know it's been a long time I read your bio, so I know, but that's okay. Well, so when you What did you major in in college psychology? Ah, okay. And did you find a bachelor's degree or just bachelor's   Jan Southern ** 04:16 I did not. I got an Mrs. Degree and had two wonderful children and grew up, they've grown up and to become very fine young men with kids of their own. So I have four grandchildren and one great grandchild, so   Michael Hingson ** 04:33 Wowie Zowie, yeah, that's pretty cool. So when you left college after graduating, what did you do?   Jan Southern ** 04:40 I first went to work in a bank. My ex husband was in pharmacy school at Oklahoma, State University of Oklahoma, and so I went to work in a bank. I was the working wife while he went to pharmacy school. And went to work in a bank, and years later, became a bank consultant. So we we lived in Norman, Oklahoma until he was out of school and and as I began having children during our marriage, I went to work for a pediatrician, which was very convenient when you're trying to take care of kids when they're young.   Michael Hingson ** 05:23 Yeah, and what did you What did you do for a pediatrician?   Jan Southern ** 05:27 I was, I was her receptionist, and typed medical charts, so I learned a lot about medicine. Was very she was head of of pediatrics at a local hospital, and also taught at the university. And so I got a great education and health and well being of kids. It was, it was a great job.   Michael Hingson ** 05:51 My my sister in law had her first child while still in high school, and ended up having to go to work. She went to work for Kaiser Permanente as a medical transcriber, but she really worked her way up. She went to college, got a nursing degree, and so on, and she became a nurse. And eventually, when she Well, she didn't retire, but her last job on the medical side was she managed seven wards, and also had been very involved in the critical care unit. Was a nurse in the CCU for a number of years. Then she was tasked. She went to the profit making side of Kaiser, as it were, and she was tasked with bringing paperless charts into Kaiser. She was the nurse involved in the team that did that. So she came a long way from being a medical transcriber.   Jan Southern ** 06:51 Well, she came a long way from being a single mom in high school. That's a great story of success.   Michael Hingson ** 06:56 Well, and she wasn't totally a single mom. She she and the guy did marry, but eventually they they did divorce because he wasn't as committed as he should be to one person, if it were,   Speaker 1 ** 07:10 that's a familiar story. And he also drank and eventually died of cirrhosis of the liver. Oh, that's too bad. Yeah, that's always sad, but, you know, but, but she coped, and her her kids cope. So it works out okay. So you went to work for a pediatrician, and then what did you do?   Jan Southern ** 07:31 Well, after my husband, after he graduated, was transferred to Dallas, and I went to work for a company gardener, Denver company at the time, they've been since purchased by another company. And was because of my experience in banking prior to the pediatrician, I went to work in their corporate cash management division, and I really enjoyed that I was in their corporate cash management for their worldwide division, and was there for about four years, and really enjoyed it. One of my most exciting things was they were moving their headquarters from Quincy, Illinois down to Dallas. And so I had been hired. But since they were not yet in Dallas, I worked with a gentleman who was in charge of putting together their corporate offices. And so we made all the arrangements. As far as we had a got a 10,000 square foot blank space when we started. And our job was to get every desk, every chair, every pen and pencil. And so when somebody moved from Quincy, Illinois, they moved in and they had their desk all set up. Their cuticles were cubicles were ready to go and and they were they could hit the ground running day one, so that,   Michael Hingson ** 09:02 so you, you clearly really got into dealing with organization, I would would say, then, wouldn't, didn't you?   Jan Southern ** 09:11 Yes, yes, that was my, probably my first exposure to to the corporate world and learning exactly how things could be more efficient, more cost effective. And I really enjoyed working for that company.   Michael Hingson ** 09:30 I remember, after September 11, we worked to provide the technology that we were selling, but we provided technology to Wall Street firms so they could recover their data and get set up again to be able to open the stock exchange and all the trading floors on the 17th of September. So the next Monday. And it was amazing, one of the companies was, I think it was Morgan Stanley. Finally and they had to go find new office space, because their office space in the World Trade Center was, needless to say, gone. They found a building in Jersey City that had a floor, they said, about the size of a football field, and from Friday night to Sunday afternoon, they said it took about 36 hours. They brought in computers, including IBM, taking computers from some of their own people, and just bringing them into to Morgan Stanley and other things, including some of the technology that we provided. And within 36 hours, they had completely reconstructed a trading floor. That's amazing. It was, it was absolutely amazing to see that. And you know, for everyone, it was pretty crazy, but Wall Street opened on the 17th and and continued to survive.   Jan Southern ** 10:57 That's a great story.   Michael Hingson ** 10:59 So what did you do? So you did this, this work with the 10,000 square foot space and other things like that. And then what?   Jan Southern ** 11:08 Well, once, once everyone moved into the space in Dallas. Then I began my work in their in their corporate cash management area. And from there, my next job was working in a bank when my my husband, then was transferred back to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I went back to work in banking. And from that bank, I was there about three to four years, and I was hired then by John Floyd as a as a consultant for banks and credit unions, and I was with that company for 42 years. My gosh, I know that's unusual these days, but I really enjoyed what I did. We did re engineering work and cost effectiveness and banks and credit unions for those 42 years. And so that was where I really cut my teeth on process improvement and continuous improvement, and still in that industry. But their company was bought by a an equity firm. And of course, when that happens, they like to make changes and and bring in their own folks. So those of us who had been there since day one were no longer there.   Michael Hingson ** 12:26 When did that happen?   Jan Southern ** 12:27 That was in 2022   Michael Hingson ** 12:32 so it's interesting that companies do that they always want to bring in their own people. And at least from my perspective, it seems to me that they forget that they lose all the tribal knowledge that people who have been working there have that made the company successful   Jan Southern ** 12:51 Absolutely. So I guess they're still doing well, and they've done well for themselves afterwards, and but, you know, they do, they lose all the knowledge, they lose all of the continuity with the clients. And it's sad that they do that, but that's very, very common.   Michael Hingson ** 13:13 Yeah, I know I worked for a company that was bought by Xerox, and all the company wanted was our technology. All Xerox wanted was the technology. And they lost all of the knowledge that all the people with sales experience and other kinds of experiences brought, because they terminated all of us when the company was fully in the Xerox realm of influence.   Jan Southern ** 13:39 So you know what I went through? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 13:42 Well, what did you do after you left that company? After you left John Floyd,   Jan Southern ** 13:47 I left John Floyd, I was under a I was under a non compete, so I kind of knocked around for a couple of years. I was of age where I could have retired, but I wasn't ready to. So then I found Ferguson Alliance, and I'm now a business advisor for family owned businesses, and so I've been with Ferguson just over a year, and doing the same type of work that I did before. In addition to that, I have become a certified Exit Planning advisor, so that I can do that type of work as well. So that's that's my story in a nutshell. As far as employment,   Michael Hingson ** 14:26 what is Ferguson Alliance?   Jan Southern ** 14:29 Ferguson Alliance, we are business advisors for family owned businesses. And the perception is that a family owned business is going to be a small business, but there are over 500,000 family owned businesses in the United States. Our market is the middle market, from maybe 50 employees up to 1000 20 million in revenues, up to, you know, the sky's the limit, and so we do. Do a lot of work as far as whatever can help a family owned business become more prosperous and survive into future generations. It's a sad statistic that most family owned businesses don't survive into the third generation.   Michael Hingson ** 15:16 Why is that?   Jan Southern ** 15:19 I think because they the first the first generation works themselves, their fingers to the bone to get their their business off the ground, and they get successful, and their offspring often enjoy, if you will, the fruits of the labors of their parents and so many of them, once they've gone to college, they don't have an interest in joining the firm, and so they go on and succeed on their own. And then their children, of course, follow the same course from from their work. And so that's really, I think, the primary reason, and also the the founders of the businesses have a tendency to let that happen, I think. And so our coaching programs try to avoid that and help them to bring in the second and third generations so that they can, you know, they can carry on a legacy of their parents or the founders.   Michael Hingson ** 16:28 So what do you do, and what kinds of initiatives do you take to extend the longevity of a family owned business then,   Jan Southern ** 16:39 well, the first thing is that that Rob, who's our founder of our family owned business, does a lot of executive coaching and helps the helps the people who are within the business, be it the founder or being at their second or third generations, and he'll help with coaching them as to how to, hey, get past the family dynamics. Everybody has their own business dynamics. And then you add on top of that, the family dynamics, in addition to just the normal everyday succession of a business. And so we help them to go through those types of challenges, if you will. They're not always a challenge, but sometimes, if there are challenges, Rob's coaching will take them through that and help them to develop a succession plan that also includes a document that says that that governance plan as to how their family business will be governed, in addition to just a simple succession plan, and my role in a lot of that is to make sure that their business is ready to prosper too. You know that their their assessment of as far as whether they're profitable, whether they are their processes are in place, etc, but one of the primary things that we do is to help them make certain that that if they don't want to survive into future generations, that we help them to prepare to either pass it along to a family member or pass it along to someone who's a non family member, right?   Michael Hingson ** 18:34 So I've heard you mentioned the 3p that are involved in extending longevity. Tell me about that. What are the three P's?   Jan Southern ** 18:41 Well, the first p is your people. You know, if you don't take care of your people, be they family members or non family members, then you're not going to be very successful. So making certain that you have a system in place, have a culture in place that takes care of your people. To us, is very key. Once you make sure that your people are in a culture of continuous improvement and have good, solid foundation. In that regard, you need to make sure that your processes are good. That's the second P that that you have to have your processes all documented, that you've authorized your people to make decisions that they don't always have to go to somebody else. If you're a person in the company and you recognize that something's broken, then you need to have empowerment so that your people can make decisions and not always have to get permission from someone else to make certain that those processes continuously are approved improved. That's how to you. Could have became so successful is they installed a product. They called it, I say, a product. They installed a culture. They called it kaizen. And so Kaizen was simply just continuous improvement, where, if you were doing a process and you ask yourself, why did I do it this way? Isn't there a better way? Then, you know, you're empowered to find a better way and to make sure that that that you can make that decision, as long as it fits in with the culture of the company. Then the third P is product. You know, you've got to have a product that people want. I know that you've seen a lot of companies fail because they're pushing a product that nobody wants. And so you make certain that your products are good, your products are good, high quality, and that you can deliver them in the way that you promise. And so those are really the 3p I'd like to go back to process and just kind of one of the things, as you know, we had some horrendous flooding here in Texas recently, and one of the things that happened during that, and not that it was a cause of it, but just one of the things that exacerbated the situation, is someone called to say, Please, we need help. There's flooding going on. It was one of their first responders had recognized that there was a tragic situation unfolding, and when he called into their system to give alerts, someone says, Well, I'm going to have to get approval from my supervisor, with the approval didn't come in time. So what's behind that? We don't know, but that's just a critical point as to why you should empower your people to make decisions when, when it's necessary.   Michael Hingson ** 21:56 I'm sure, in its own way, there was some of that with all the big fires out here in California back in January, although part of the problem with those is that aircraft couldn't fly for 36 hours because the winds were so heavy that there was just no way that the aircraft could fly. But you got to wonder along the way, since they are talking about the fact that the electric companies Southern California, Edison had a fair amount to do with probably a lot a number of the fires igniting and so on, one can only wonder what might have happened if somebody had made different decisions to better prepare and do things like coating the wires so that if they touch, they wouldn't spark and so on that they didn't do. And, you know, I don't know, but one can only wonder.   Jan Southern ** 22:53 It's hard to know, you know, and in our situation, would it have made any difference had that person been able to make a decision on her own? Yeah, I was moving so rapidly, it might not have made any any difference at all, but you just have to wonder, like you said,   Michael Hingson ** 23:10 yeah, there's no way to, at this point, really know and understand, but nevertheless, it is hopefully something that people learn about for the future, I heard that they're now starting to coat wires, and so hopefully that will prevent a lot, prevent a lot of the sparking and so on. I'd always thought about they ought to put everything underground, but coating wire. If they can do that and do it effectively, would probably work as well. And that's, I would think, a lot cheaper than trying to put the whole power grid underground.   Jan Southern ** 23:51 I would think so we did when I was with my prior company. We did a project where they were burying, they were putting everything underground, and Burlington Vermont, and it was incredible what it takes to do that. I mean, you just, we on the outside, just don't realize, you know, there's a room that's like 10 by six underground that carries all of their equipment and things necessary to do that. And I never realized how, how costly and how difficult it was to bury everything. We just have the impression that, well, they just bury this stuff underground, and that's all. That's all it takes. But it's a huge, huge undertaking in order to do that   Michael Hingson ** 24:36 well. And it's not just the equipment, it's all the wires, and that's hundreds and of miles and 1000s of miles of cable that has to be buried underground, and that gets to be a real challenge.   Jan Southern ** 24:47 Oh, exactly, exactly. So another story about cables. We were working in West Texas one time on a project, and we're watching them stretch the. Wiring. They were doing some internet provisioning for West Texas, which was woefully short on in that regard, and they were stringing the wire using helicopters. It was fascinating, and the only reason we saw that is it was along the roadways when we were traveling from West Texas, back into San Antonio, where flights were coming in and out of so that was interesting to watch.   Michael Hingson ** 25:28 Yeah, yeah. People get pretty creative. Well, you know, thinking back a little bit, John Floyd must have been doing something right to keep you around for 42 years.   Jan Southern ** 25:40 Yes, they did. They were a fabulous country company and still going strong. I think he opened in 1981 it's called advantage. Now, it's not John Floyd, but Right, that was a family owned business. That's where I got to cut my teeth on the dynamics of a family owned business and how they should work and how and his niece is one of the people that's still with the company. Whether, now that they're owned by someone else, whether she'll be able to remain as they go into different elements, is, is another question. But yeah, they were, they were great.   Michael Hingson ** 26:20 How many companies, going back to the things we were talking about earlier, how many companies when they're when they buy out another company, or they're bought out by another company, how many of those companies generally do succeed and continue to grow? Do you have any statistics, or do more tend not to than do? Or   Jan Southern ** 26:40 I think that more tend to survive. They tend to survive, though, with a different culture, I guess you would say they they don't retain the culture that they had before. I don't have any firm statistics on that, because we don't really deal with that that much, but I don't they tend to survive with it, with a the culture of the newer company, if they fold them in, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 27:15 Well, and the reality is to be fair, evolution always takes place. So the John Floyd and say, 2022 wasn't the same as the John Floyd company in 1981   Jan Southern ** 27:31 not at all. No, exactly, not at all.   Michael Hingson ** 27:34 So it did evolve, and it did grow. And so hopefully, when that company was absorbed elsewhere and with other companies, they they do something to continue to be successful, and I but I think that's good. I know that with Xerox, when it bought Kurzweil, who I worked for, they were also growing a lot and so on. The only thing is that their stock started to drop. I think that there were a number of things. They became less visionary, I think is probably the best way to put it, and they had more competition from other companies developing and providing copiers and other things like that. But they just became less visionary. And so the result was that they didn't grow as much as probably they should have.   Jan Southern ** 28:28 I think that happens a lot. Sometimes, if you don't have a culture of continuous improvement and continuous innovation, which maybe they didn't, I'm not that familiar with how they move forward, then you get left behind. You know, I'm I'm in the process right now, becoming certified in artificial intelligent in my old age. And the point that's made, not by the company necessarily that I'm studying with, but by many others, is there's going to be two different kinds of companies in the future. There's going to be those who have adopted AI and those who used to be in business. And I think that's probably fair.   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 I think it is. And I also we talked with a person on this podcast about a year ago, or not quite a year ago, but, but he said, AI will not replace anyone's jobs. People will replace people's jobs with AI, but they shouldn't. They shouldn't eliminate anyone from the workforce. And we ended up having this discussion about autonomous vehicles. And the example that he gave is, right now we have companies that are shippers, and they drive product across the country, and what will happen to the drivers when the driving process becomes autonomous and you have self driving vehicles, driving. Across country. And his point was, what they should do, what people should consider doing is not eliminating the drivers, but while the machine is doing the driving, find and give additional or other tasks to the drivers to do so they can continue to be contributors and become more efficient and help the company become more efficient, because now you've got people to do other things than what they were used to doing, but there are other things that AI won't be able to do. And I thought that was pretty fascinating,   Jan Southern ** 30:34 exactly. Well, my my nephew is a long haul truck driver. He owns a company, and you know, nothing the AI will never be able to observe everything that's going on around the trucking and and you know, there's also the some of the things that that driver can do is those observations, plus they're Going to need people who are going to program those trucks as they are making their way across the country, and so I'm totally in agreement with what your friend said, or your you know, your guests had to say that many other things,   Michael Hingson ** 31:15 yeah, and it isn't necessarily even relating to driving, but there are certainly other things that they could be doing to continue to be efficient and effective, and no matter how good the autonomous driving capabilities are, it only takes that one time when for whatever reason, the intelligence can't do it, that it's good To have a driver available to to to to help. And I do believe that we're going to see the time when autonomous vehicles will be able to do a great job, and they will be able to observe most of all that stuff that goes on around them. But there's going to be that one time and that that happens. I mean, even with drivers in a vehicle, there's that one time when maybe something happens and a driver can't continue. So what happens? Well, the vehicle crashes, or there's another person to take over. That's why we have at least two pilots and airplanes and so on. So right, exactly aspects of it,   Jan Southern ** 32:21 I think so I can remember when I was in grade school, they showed us a film as to what someone's vision of the country was, and part of that was autonomous driving, you know. And so it was, it was interesting that we're living in a time where we're beginning to see that, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:41 we're on the cusp, and it's going to come. It's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen, and we're going to find that vehicles will be able to drive themselves. But there's still much more to it than that, and we shouldn't be in too big of a hurry, although some so called profit making. People may decide that's not true, to their eventual chagrin, but we shouldn't be too quick to replace people with technology totally   Jan Southern ** 33:14 Exactly. We have cars in I think it's Domino's Pizza. I'm not sure which pizza company, but they have autonomous cars driving, and they're cooking the pizza in the back oven of the car while, you know, while it's driving to your location, yeah, but there's somebody in the car who gets out of the car and brings the pizza to my door.   Michael Hingson ** 33:41 There's been some discussion about having drones fly the pizza to you. Well, you know, we'll see,   Jan Southern ** 33:50 right? We'll see how that goes. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:53 I haven't heard that. That one is really, pardon the pun, flown well yet. But, you know, we'll see. So when you start a process, improvement process program, what are some of the first steps that you initiate to bring that about? Well, the first   Jan Southern ** 34:11 thing that we do, once we've got agreement with their leadership, then we have a meeting with the people who will be involved, who will be impacted, and we tell them all about what's happening, what's going to happen, and make certain that they're in full understanding. And you know, the first thing that you ever hear when you're saying that you're going to be doing a re engineering or process improvement is they think, Oh, you're just going to come in and tell me to reduce my staff, and that's the way I'm going to be more successful. We don't look at it that way at all. We look at it in that you need to be right. Have your staff being the right size, and so in in many cases, in my past. I we've added staff. We've told them, you're under staffed, but the first thing we do is hold that meeting, make certain that they're all in agreement with what's going to happen, explain to them how it's going to happen, and then the next step is that once management has decided who our counterparts will be within the company. Who's going to be working with us to introduce us to their staff members is we sit down with their staff members and we ask them questions. You know, what do you do? How do you do it? What do you Did someone bring it to you. Are you second in line or next in line for some task? And then once you finish with it, what happens to it? Do you give someone else? Is a report produced? Etc. And so once we've answered all of those questions, we do a little a mapping of the process. And once you map that process, then you take it back to the people who actually perform the process, and you ask them, Did I get this right? I heard you say, this? Is this a true depiction of what's happening? And so we make sure that they don't do four steps. And they told us steps number one and three, so that then, once we've mapped that out, that gives us an idea of two of how can things be combined? Can they be combined? Should you be doing what you're doing here? Is there a more efficient or cost effective way of doing it? And we make our recommendations based on that for each process that we're reviewing. Sometimes there's one or two good processes in an area that we're looking at. Sometimes there are hundreds. And so that's that's the basic process. And then once they've said yes, that is correct, then we make our recommendations. We take it back to their management, and hopefully they will include the people who actually are performing the actions. And we make our recommendations to make changes if, if, if it's correct, maybe they don't need to make any changes. Maybe everything is is very, very perfect the way it is. But in most cases, they brought us in because it's not and they've recognized it's not. So then once they've said, yes, we want to do this, then we help them to implement.   Michael Hingson ** 37:44 Who usually starts this process, that is, who brings you in?   Jan Southern ** 37:48 Generally, it is going to be, depending upon the size of the company, but in most cases, it's going to be the CEO. Sometimes it's the Chief Operating Officer. Sometimes in a very large company, it may be a department manager, you know, someone who has the authority to bring us in. But generally, I would say that probably 90% of our projects, it's at the C   Michael Hingson ** 38:19 level office. So then, based on everything that you're you're discussing, probably that also means that there has to be some time taken to convince management below the CEO or CEO or a department head. You've got to convince the rest of management that this is going to be a good thing and that you have their best interest at heart.   Jan Southern ** 38:43 That is correct, and that's primarily the reason that we have for our initial meeting. We ask whoever is the contract signer to attend that meeting and be a part of the discussion to help to ward off any objections, and then to really bring these people along if they are objecting. And for that very reason, even though they may still be objecting, we involve them in the implementation, so an implementation of a of a recommendation has to improve, has to include the validation. So we don't do the work, but we sit alongside the people who are doing the implementation and guide them through the process, and then it's really up to them to report back. Is it working as intended? If it's not, what needs to be changed, what might improve, what we thought would be a good recommendation, and we work with them to make certain that everything works for them. Right? And by the end of that, if they've been the tester, they've been the one who's approved steps along the way, we generally find that they're on board because they're the it's now. They're now the owners of the process. And when they have ownership on something that they've implemented. It's amazing how much more resilient they they think that the process becomes, and now it's their process and not ours.   Michael Hingson ** 40:32 Do you find most often that when you're working with a number of people in a company that most of them realize that there need to be some changes, or something needs to be improved to make the whole company work better. Or do you find sometimes there's just great resistance, and people say no, there's just no way anything is bad.   Jan Southern ** 40:53 Here we find that 90% of the time, and I'm just pulling that percentage out of the air, I would say they know, they know it needs to be changed. And the ones typically, not always, but typically, the ones where you find the greatest resistance are the ones who know it's broken, but they just don't want to change. You know, there are some people who don't want to change no matter what, or they feel threatened that. They feel like that a new and improved process might take their place. You know, might replace them. And that's typically not the case. It's typically not the case at all, that they're not replaced by it. Their process is improved, and they find that they can be much more productive. But the the ones who are like I call them the great resistors, usually don't survive the process either. They are. They generally let themselves go,   Michael Hingson ** 42:01 if you will, more ego than working for the company.   Jan Southern ** 42:05 Yes, exactly, you know, it's kind of like my mom, you know, and it they own the process as it was. We used to laugh and call this person Louise, you know, Louise has said, Well, we've always done it that way. You know, that's probably the best reason 20 years in not to continue to do it same way.   Michael Hingson ** 42:34 We talked earlier about John Floyd and evolution. And that makes perfect sense. Exactly what's one of the most important things that you have to do to prepare to become involved in preparing for a process, improvement project? I think   Jan Southern ** 42:52 the most important thing there's two very important things. One is to understand their culture, to know how their culture is today, so that you know kind of which direction you need to take them, if they're not in a continuous improvement environment, then you need to lead them in that direction if they're already there and they just don't understand what needs to be done. There's two different scenarios, but the first thing you need to do is understand the culture. The second thing that you need to do, other than the culture, is understand their their business. You need to know what they do. Of course, you can't know from the outside how they do it, but you need to know that, for instance, if it's an we're working with a company that cleans oil tanks and removes toxins and foul lines from oil and gas industry. And so if you don't understand at all what they do, it's hard to help them through the processes that they need to go through. And so just learning, in general, what their technology, what their business is about. If you walk in there and haven't done that, you're just blowing smoke. In my mind, you know, I do a lot of research on the technologies that they use, or their company in general. I look at their website, I you know, look at their LinkedIn, their social media and so. And then we request information from them in advance of doing a project, so that we know what their org structure looks like. And I think those things are critical before you walk in the door to really understand their business in general.   Michael Hingson ** 44:53 Yeah, and that, by doing that, you also tend to. To gain a lot of credibility, because you come in and demonstrate that you do understand what they're doing, and people respond well to that, I would think   Jan Southern ** 45:10 they do. You know, one of our most interesting projects in my past was the electric company that I mentioned. There was an electric company in Burlington, Vermont that did their own electric generation. We've never looked at anything like that. We're a bank consultant, and so we learned all about how they generated energy with wood chips and the, you know, the different things. And, you know, there were many days that I was out watching the wood chips fall out of a train and into their buckets, where they then transferred them to a yard where they moved the stuff around all the time. So, you know, it was, it's very interesting what you learn along the way. But I had done my homework, and I knew kind of what they did and not how they did it in individual aspects of their own processes, but I understood their industry. And so it was, you do walk in with some credibility, otherwise they're looking at you like, well, what does this person know about my job?   Michael Hingson ** 46:20 And at the same time, have you ever been involved in a situation where you did learn about the company you you went in with some knowledge, you started working with the company, and you made a suggestion about changing a process or doing something that no one had thought of, and it just clicked, and everybody loved it when they thought about it,   Jan Southern ** 46:42 yes, yes, exactly. And probably that electric company was one of those such things. You know, when they hired us, they they told us. We said, We don't know anything about your business. And they said, Good, we don't want you to come in with any preconceived ideas. And so some of the recommendations we made to them. They were, it's kind of like an aha moment. You know, they look at you like, Oh my gosh. I've never thought of that, you know, the same I would say in in banking and in family businesses, you know, they just, they've never thought about doing things in a certain way.   Michael Hingson ** 47:20 Can you tell us a story about one of those times?   Jan Southern ** 47:24 Yes, I would say that if you're, if you're talking about, let's talk about something in the banking industry, where they are. I was working in a bank, and you, you go in, and this was in the days before we had all of the ways to store things electronically. And so they were having a difficult time in keeping all of their documents and in place and knowing when to, you know, put them in a destruction pile and when not to. And so I would say that they had an aha moment when I said, Okay, let's do this. Let's get a bunch of the little colored dots, and you have big dots and small dots. And I said, everything that you put away for 1990 for instance, then you put on a purple dot. And then for January, you have 12 different colors of the little dots that you put in the middle of them. And you can use those things to determine that everything that has a purple dot and little yellow.in the middle of that one, you know that that needs to be destructed. I think in that case, it was seven years, seven years from now, you know that you need to pull that one off the shelf and put it into the pile to be destructed. And they said, we've never thought of anything. It was like I had told him that, you know, the world was going to be struck, to be gone, to begin tomorrow. Yeah, it was so simple to me, but it was something that they had never, ever thought of, and it solved. They had something like five warehouses of stuff, most of which needed to have been destroyed years before, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 49:21 but still they weren't sure what, and so you gave them a mechanism to do that,   Jan Southern ** 49:27 right? Of course, that's all gone out the window today. You don't have to do all that manual stuff anymore. You're just, you know, I'd say another example of that was people who were when we began the system of digitizing the files, especially loan files in a bank. And this would hold true today as well, in that once you start on a project to digitize the files, there's a tendency to take the old. Files first and digitize those. Well, when you do that, before you get to the end of it, if you have a large project, you don't need those files anymore. So you know, our recommendation is start with your latest. You know, anything that needs to be archived, start with the newest, because by the time that you finish your project, some of those old files you won't even need to digitize, just shred them. Yeah, you know, it's, it's just little simple things like that that can make all the difference.   Michael Hingson ** 50:32 When should a family business start documenting processes? I think I know that's what I thought you'd say,   Jan Southern ** 50:40 yes, yes, that is something that is near and dear to my heart. Is that I would even recommend that you maybe do it before you open your doors, if potential is there, so that the day you open your business, you need to start with your documenting your processes, and you need to start on your succession planning. You know, those are the days that once you really start working, you're not going to have time. You know, you're going to be busy working every day. You're you're going to be busy servicing your customers, and that always gets pushed to the back when you start to document something, and so that's the time do it when you first open your doors.   Michael Hingson ** 51:29 So when we talk about processes, maybe it's a fair question to ask, maybe not. But what are we really talking about when we talk about processes and documenting processes? What are the processes?   Jan Southern ** 51:41 Well, the processes are the things that you do every day. Let's take as an example, just when you set up your your files within your SharePoint, or within your computer, if you don't use SharePoint, your Google files, how you set those up, a process could also be during your accounting, what's the process that you go through to get a invoice approved? You know, when the invoice comes in from the vendor, what do you do with it? You know, who has to approve it? Are there dollar amounts that you have to have approvals for? Or can some people just take in a smaller invoice and pay it without any any approvals? We like to see there be a process where it's approved before you get the invoice from the customer, where it's been approved at the time of the order. And that way it can be processed more more quickly on the backside, to just make sure that it says what the purchase order if you use purchase orders or see what your agreement was. So it's the it's the workflow. There's something that triggers an action, and then, once gets triggered, then what takes place? What's next, what's the next steps? And you just go through each one of the things that has to happen for that invoice to get paid, and the check or wire transfer, or or whatever you use as a payment methodology for it to go out the door. And so, you know what you what you do is you start, there's something that triggers it, and then there's a goal for the end, and then you fill in in the center,   Michael Hingson ** 53:38 and it's, it's, it's a fascinating I hate to use the word process to to listen to all of this, but it makes perfect sense that you should be documenting right from the outset about everything that you do, because it also means that you're establishing a plan so that everyone knows exactly what the expectations are and exactly what it is that needs to be done every step of the way,   Jan Southern ** 54:07 right and and one of the primary reasons for that is we can't anticipate life. You know, maybe our favorite person, Louise, is the only one who's ever done, let's say, you know, payroll processing, or something of that sort. And if something happens and Louise isn't able to come in tomorrow, who's going to do it? You know, without a map, a road map, as to the steps that need to be taken, how's that going to take place? And so that's that's really the critical importance. And when you're writing those processes and procedures, you need to make them so that anybody can walk in off the street, if necessary, and do what Louise was doing and have it done. Properly.   Michael Hingson ** 55:00 Of course, as we know, Louise is just a big complainer anyway. That's right, you said, yeah. Well, once you've made recommendations, and let's say they're put in place, then what do you do to continue supporting a business?   Jan Southern ** 55:20 We check in with them periodically, whatever is appropriate for them and and for the procedures that are there, we make sure that it's working for them, that they're being as prosperous as they want to be, and that our recommendations are working for them. Hopefully they'll allow us to come back in and and most do, and make sure that what we recommended is right and in is working for them, and if so, we make little tweaks with their approvals. And maybe new technology has come in, maybe they've installed a new system. And so then we help them to incorporate our prior recommendations into whatever new they have. And so we try to support them on an ongoing basis, if they're willing to do that, which we have many clients. I think Rob has clients he's been with for ever, since he opened his doors 15 years ago. So   Michael Hingson ** 56:19 of course, the other side of that is, I would assume sometimes you work with companies, you've helped them deal with processes and so on, and then you come back in and you know about technology that that they don't know. And I would assume then that you suggest that, and hopefully they see the value of listening to your wisdom.   Jan Southern ** 56:41 Absolutely, we find that a lot. We also if they've discovered a technology on their own, but need help with recommendations, as far as implementation, we can help them through that as well, and that's one of the reasons I'm taking this class in AI to be able to help our customers move into a realm where it's much more easily implemented if, if they already have the steps that we've put into place, you can feed that into an AI model, and it can make adjustments to what they're doing or make suggestions.   Michael Hingson ** 57:19 Is there any kind of a rule of thumb to to answer this question, how long does it take for a project to to be completed?   Jan Southern ** 57:26 You know, it takes, in all fairness, regardless of the size of the company, I would say that they need to allow six weeks minimum. That's for a small company with a small project, it can take as long as a year or two years, depending upon the number of departments and the number of people that you have to talk to about their processes. But to let's just take an example of a one, one single department in a company is looking at doing one of these processes, then they need to allow at least six weeks to for discovery, for mapping, for their people to become accustomed to the new processes and to make sure that the implementation has been tested and is working and and they're satisfied with everything that that is taking place. Six weeks is a very, very minimum, probably 90 days is a more fair assessment as to how long they should allow for everything to take place.   Michael Hingson ** 58:39 Do you find that, if you are successful with, say, a larger company, when you go in and work with one department and you're able to demonstrate success improvements, or whatever it is that that you define as being successful, that then other departments want to use your services as well?   Jan Southern ** 59:00 Yes, yes, we do. That's a very good point. Is that once you've helped them to help themselves, if you will, once you've helped them through that process, then they recognize the value of that, and we'll move on to another division or another department to do the same thing.   Michael Hingson ** 59:21 Word of mouth counts for a lot,   Jan Southern ** 59:24 doesn't it? Though, I'd say 90% of our business at Ferguson and company comes through referrals. They refer either through a center of influence or a current client who's been very satisfied with the work that we've done for them, and they tell their friends and networking people that you know. Here's somebody that you should use if you're considering this type of a project.   Michael Hingson ** 59:48 Well, if people want to reach out to you and maybe explore using your services in Ferguson services, how do they do that?   Jan Southern ** 59:55 They contact they can. If they want to contact me directly, it's Jan. J, a n, at Ferguson dash alliance.com and that's F, E, R, G, U, S, O, N, Dash alliance.com and they can go to our website, which is the same, which is Ferguson dash alliance.com One thing that's very, very good about our our website is, there's a page that's called resources, and there's a lot of free advice, if you will. There's a lot of materials there that are available to family owned businesses, specifically, but any business could probably benefit from that. And so those are free for you to be able to access and look at, and there's a lot of blog information, free eBook out there, and so that's the best way to reach Ferguson Alliance.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:52 Well, cool. Well, I hope people will take all of this to heart. You certainly offered a lot of interesting and I would say, very relevant ideas and thoughts about dealing with processes and the importance of having processes. For several years at a company, my wife was in charge of document control and and not only doc control, but also keeping things secure. Of course, having the sense of humor that I have, I pointed out nobody else around the company knew how to read Braille, so what they should really do is put all the documents in Braille, then they'd be protected, but nobody. I was very disappointed. Good idea   Speaker 2 ** 1:01:36 that is good idea that'll keep them safe from everybody. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:39 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank to thank all of you for listening today. We've been doing this an hour. How much fun. It is fun. Well, I appreciate it, and love to hear from all of you about today's episode. Please feel free to reach out to me. You can email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast page. Michael hingson, M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, n.com/podcast, but wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. We value your thoughts and your opinions, and I hope that you'll tell other people about the podcasts as well. This has been an interesting one, and we try to make them all kind of fun and interesting, so please tell others about it. And if anyone out there listening knows of anyone who ought to be a guest, Jan, including you, then please feel free to introduce us to anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset. Because I believe everyone has a story to tell, and I want to get as many people to have the opportunity to tell their stories as we can. So I hope that you'll all do that and give us reviews and and stick with us. But Jan, again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun.   Jan Southern ** 1:02:51 It has been a lot of fun, and I certainly thank you for inviting me.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:00 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Welcome to Original Jurisdiction, the latest legal publication by me, David Lat. You can learn more about Original Jurisdiction by reading its About page, and you can email me at davidlat@substack.com. This is a reader-supported publication; you can subscribe by clicking here.Yesterday, Southern California Edison (SCE), the utility whose power lines may have started the devastating Eaton Fire, announced its Wildfire Recovery Compensation Program. Under the program, people affected by the fire can receive hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars in compensation, in a matter of months rather than years—but in exchange, they must give up their right to sue.It should come as no surprise that SCE, in designing the program, sought the help of Kenneth Feinberg. For more than 40 years, often in the wake of tragedy or disaster, Feinberg has helped mediate and resolve seemingly intractable crises. He's most well-known for how he and his colleague Camille Biros designed and administered the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. But he has worked on many other headline-making matters over the years, including the Agent Orange product liability litigation, the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill Trust, the multidistrict litigation involving Monsanto's Roundup weed killer—and now, of course, the Eaton Fire.How did Ken develop such a fascinating and unique practice? What is the most difficult aspect of administering these giant compensation funds? Do these funds represent the wave of the future, as an alternative to (increasingly expensive) litigation? Having just turned 80, does he have any plans to retire?Last week, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ken—the day after his 80th birthday—and we covered all these topics. The result is what I found to be one of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this podcast.Thanks to Ken Feinberg for joining me—and, of course, for his many years of service as America's go-to mediator in times of crisis.Show Notes:* Kenneth Feinberg bio, Wikipedia* Kenneth Feinberg profile, Chambers and Partners* L.A. Fire Victims Face a Choice, by Jill Cowan for The New York TimesPrefer reading to listening? For paid subscribers, a transcript of the entire episode appears below.Sponsored by:NexFirm helps Biglaw attorneys become founding partners. To learn more about how NexFirm can help you launch your firm, call 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com.Three quick notes about this transcript. First, it has been cleaned up from the audio in ways that don't alter substance—e.g., by deleting verbal filler or adding a word here or there to clarify meaning. Second, my interviewee has not reviewed this transcript, and any errors are mine. Third, because of length constraints, this newsletter may be truncated in email; to view the entire post, simply click on “View entire message” in your email app.David Lat: Welcome to the Original Jurisdiction podcast. I'm your host, David Lat, author of a Substack newsletter about law and the legal profession also named Original Jurisdiction, which you can read and subscribe to at davidlat.substack.com. You're listening to the eighty-fourth episode of this podcast, recorded on Friday, October 24.Thanks to this podcast's sponsor, NexFirm. NexFirm helps Biglaw attorneys become founding partners. To learn more about how NexFirm can help you launch your firm, call 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com. Want to know who the guest will be for the next Original Jurisdiction podcast? Follow NexFirm on LinkedIn for a preview.I like to think that I've produced some good podcast episodes over the past three-plus years, but I feel that this latest one is a standout. I'm hard-pressed to think of an interview that was more emotionally affecting to me than what you're about to hear.Kenneth Feinberg is a leading figure in the world of mediation and alternative dispute resolution. He is most well-known for having served as special master of the U.S. government's September 11th Victim Compensation Fund—and for me, as someone who was in New York City on September 11, I found his discussion of that work profoundly moving. But he has handled many major matters over the years, such as the Agent Orange product liability litigation to the BP Deepwater Horizon Disaster Victim Compensation Fund. And he's working right now on a matter that's in the headlines: the California wildfires. Ken has been hired by Southern California Edison to help design a compensation program for victims of the 2025 Eaton fire. Ken has written about his fascinating work in two books: What Is Life Worth?: The Unprecedented Effort to Compensate the Victims of 9/11 and Who Gets What: Fair Compensation after Tragedy and Financial Upheaval. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Ken Feinberg.Ken, thank you so much for joining me.Ken Feinberg: Thank you very much; it's an honor to be here.DL: We are recording this shortly after your 80th birthday, so happy birthday!KF: Thank you very much.DL: Let's go back to your birth; let's start at the beginning. You grew up in Massachusetts, I believe.KF: That's right: Brockton, Massachusetts, about 20 miles south of Boston.DL: Your parents weren't lawyers. Tell us about what they did.KF: My parents were blue-collar workers from Massachusetts, second-generation immigrants. My father ran a wholesale tire distributorship, my mother was a bookkeeper, and we grew up in the 1940s and ‘50s, even the early ‘60s, in a town where there was great optimism, a very vibrant Jewish community, three different synagogues, a very optimistic time in American history—post-World War II, pre-Vietnam, and a time when communitarianism, working together to advance the collective good, was a prominent characteristic of Brockton, and most of the country, during the time that I was in elementary school and high school in Brockton.DL: Did the time in which you grow up shape or influence your decision to go into law?KF: Yes. More than law—the time growing up had a great impact on my decision to give back to the community from which I came. You've got to remember, when I was a teenager, the president of the United States was John F. Kennedy, and I'll never forget because it had a tremendous impact on me—President Kennedy reminding everybody that public service is a noble undertaking, government is not a dirty word, and especially his famous quote (or one of his many quotes), “Every individual can make a difference.” I never forgot that, and it had a personal impact on me and has had an impact on me throughout my life. [Ed. note: The quotation generally attributed to JFK is, “One person can make a difference, and everyone should try.” Whether he actually said these exact words is unclear, but it's certainly consistent with many other sentiments he expressed throughout his life.]DL: When you went to college at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, what did you study?KF: I studied history and political science. I was very interested in how individuals over the centuries change history, the theory of historians that great individuals articulate history and drive it in a certain direction—for good, like President Kennedy or Abraham Lincoln or George Washington, or for ill, like Adolf Hitler or Mussolini. And so it was history that I really delved into in my undergraduate years.DL: What led you then to turn to law school?KF: I always enjoyed acting on the stage—theater, comedies, musicals, dramas—and at the University of Massachusetts, I did quite a bit of that. In my senior year, I anticipated going to drama school at Yale, or some other academic master's program in theater. My father gave me very good advice. He said, “Ken, most actors end up waiting on restaurant tables in Manhattan, waiting for a big break that never comes. Why don't you turn your skills on the stage to a career in the courtroom, in litigation, talking to juries and convincing judges?” That was very sound advice from my father, and I ended up attending NYU Law School and having a career in the law.DL: Yes—and you recount that story in your book, and I just love that. It's really interesting to hear what parents think of our careers. But anyway, you did very well in law school, you were on the law review, and then your first job out of law school was something that we might expect out of someone who did well in law school.KF: Yes. I was a law clerk to the chief judge of New York State, Stanley Fuld, a very famous state jurist, and he had his chambers in New York City. For one week, every six or seven weeks, we would go to the state capitol in Albany to hear cases, and it was Judge Fuld who was my transition from law school to the practice of law.DL: I view clerking as a form of government service—and then you continued in service after that.KF: That's right. Remembering what my father had suggested, I then turned my attention to the courtroom and became an assistant United States attorney, a federal prosecutor, in New York City. I served as a prosecutor and as a trial lawyer for a little over three years. And then I had a wonderful opportunity to go to work for Senator Ted Kennedy on the Senate Judiciary Committee in Washington and stayed with him for about five years.DL: You talk about this also in your books—you worked on a pretty diverse range of issues for the senator, right?KF: That's right. For the first three years I worked on his staff on the Senate Judiciary Committee, with some excellent colleagues—soon-to-be Supreme Court justice Stephen Breyer was with me, noted litigator David Boies was in the office—and for the first three years, it was law-related issues. Then in 1978, Senator Kennedy asked me to be his chief of staff, and once I went over and became his chief of staff, the issues of course mushroomed. He was running for president, so there were issues of education, health, international relations—a wide diversity of issues, very broad-based.DL: I recall that you didn't love the chief of staff's duties.KF: No. Operations or administration was not my priority. I loved substance, issues—whatever the issues were, trying to work out legislative compromises, trying to give back something in the way of legislation to the people. And internal operations and administration, I quickly discovered, was not my forte. It was not something that excited me.DL: Although it's interesting: what you are most well-known for is overseeing and administering these large funds and compensating victims of these horrific tragedies, and there's a huge amount of administration involved in that.KF: Yes, but I'm a very good delegator. In fact, if you look at the track record of my career in designing and administering these programs—9/11 or the Deepwater Horizon oil spill or the Patriots' Day Marathon bombings in Boston—I was indeed fortunate in all of those matters to have at my side, for over 40 years, Camille Biros. She's not a lawyer, but she's the nation's expert on designing, administering, and operating these programs, and as you delve into what I've done and haven't done, her expertise has been invaluable.DL: I would call Camille your secret weapon, except she's not secret. She's been profiled in The New York Times, and she's a well-known figure in her own right.KF: That is correct. She was just in the last few months named one of the 50 Women Over 50 that have had such an impact in the country—that list by Forbes that comes out every year. She's prominently featured in that magazine.DL: Shifting back to your career, where did you go after your time in the Senate?KF: I opened up a Washington office for a prominent New York law firm, and for the next decade or more, that was the center of my professional activity.DL: So that was Kaye Scholer, now Arnold & Porter Kaye Scholer. What led you to go from your career in the public sector, where you spent a number of your years right out of law school, into so-called Biglaw?KF: Practicality and financial considerations. I had worked for over a decade in public service. I now had a wife, I had three young children, and it was time to give them financial security. And “Biglaw,” as you put it—Biglaw in Washington was lucrative, and it was something that gave me a financial base from which I could try and expand my different interests professionally. And that was the reason that for about 12 years I was in private practice for a major firm, Kaye Scholer.DL: And then tell us what happened next.KF: A great lesson in not planning too far ahead. In 1984, I got a call from a former clerk of Judge Fuld whom I knew from the clerk network: Judge Jack Weinstein, a nationally recognized jurist from Brooklyn, the Eastern District, and a federal judge. He had on his docket the Vietnam veterans' Agent Orange class action.You may recall that there were about 250,000 Vietnam veterans who came home claiming illness or injury or death due to the herbicide Agent Orange, which had been dropped by the U.S. Air Force in Vietnam to burn the foliage and vegetation where the Viet Cong enemy might be hiding. Those Vietnam veterans came home suffering terrible diseases, including cancer and chloracne (a sort of acne on the skin), and they brought a lawsuit. Judge Weinstein had the case. Weinstein realized that if that case went to trial, it could be 10 years before there'd be a result, with appeals and all of that.So he appointed me as mediator, called the “special master,” whose job it was to try and settle the case, all as a mediator. Well, after eight weeks of trying, we were successful. There was a master settlement totaling about $250 million—at the time, one of the largest tort verdicts in history. And that one case, front-page news around the nation, set me on a different track. Instead of remaining a Washington lawyer involved in regulatory and legislative matters, I became a mediator, an individual retained by the courts or by the parties to help resolve a case. And that was the beginning. That one Agent Orange case transformed my entire professional career and moved me in a different direction completely.DL: So you knew the late Judge Weinstein through Fuld alumni circles. What background did you have in mediation already, before you handled this gigantic case?KF: None. I told Judge Weinstein, “Judge, I never took a course in mediation at law school (there wasn't one then), and I don't know anything about bringing the parties together, trying to get them to settle.” He said, “I know you. I know your background. I've followed your career. You worked for Senator Kennedy. You are the perfect person.” And until the day I die, I'm beholden to Judge Weinstein for having faith in me to take this on.DL: And over the years, you actually worked on a number of matters at the request of Judge Weinstein.KF: A dozen. I worked on tobacco cases, on asbestos cases, on drug and medical device cases. I even worked for Judge Weinstein mediating the closing of the Shoreham nuclear plant on Long Island. I handled a wide range of cases where he called on me to act as his court-appointed mediator to resolve cases on his docket.DL: You've carved out a very unique and fascinating niche within the law, and I'm guessing that most people who meet you nowadays know who you are. But say you're in a foreign country or something, and some total stranger is chatting with you and asks what you do for a living. What would you say?KF: I would say I'm a lawyer, and I specialize in dispute resolution. It might be mediation, it might be arbitration, or it might even be negotiation, where somebody asks me to negotiate on their behalf. So I just tell people there is a growing field of law in the United States called ADR—alternative dispute resolution—and that it is, as you say, David, my niche, my focus when called upon.DL: And I think it's fair to say that you're one of the founding people in this field or early pioneers—or I don't know how you would describe it.KF: I think that's right. When I began with Agent Orange, there was no mediation to speak of. It certainly wasn't institutionalized; it wasn't streamlined. Today, in 2025, the American Bar Association has a special section on alternative dispute resolution, it's taught in every law school in the United States, there are thousands of mediators and arbitrators, and it's become a major leg in law school of different disciplines and specialties.DL: One question I often ask my guests is, “What is the matter you are most proud of?” Another question I often ask my guests is, “What is the hardest matter you've ever had to deal with?” Another question I often ask my guests is, “What is the matter that you're most well-known for?” And I feel in your case, the same matter is responsive to all three of those questions.KF: That's correct. The most difficult, the most challenging, the most rewarding matter, the one that's given me the most exposure, was the federal September 11 Victim Compensation Fund of 2001, when I was appointed by President George W. Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft to implement, design, and administer a very unique federal law that had been enacted right after 9/11.DL: I got chills as you were just even stating that, very factually, because I was in New York on 9/11, and a lot of us remember the trauma and difficulty of that time. And you basically had to live with that and talk to hundreds, even thousands, of people—survivors, family members—for almost three years. And you did it pro bono. So let me ask you this: what were you thinking?KF: What triggered my interest was the law itself. Thirteen days after the attacks, Congress passed this law, unique in American history, setting up a no-fault administrator compensation system. Don't go to court. Those who volunteer—families of the dead, those who were physically injured at the World Trade Center or the Pentagon—you can voluntarily seek compensation from a taxpayer-funded law. Now, if you don't want it, you don't have to go. It's a voluntary program.The key will be whether the special master or the administrator will be able to convince people that it is a better avenue to pursue than a long, delayed, uncertain lawsuit. And based on my previous experience for the last 15 years, starting with Agent Orange and asbestos and these other tragedies, I volunteered. I went to Senator Kennedy and said, “What about this?” He said, “Leave it to me.” He called President Bush. He knew Attorney General John Ashcroft, who was his former colleague in the U.S. Senate, and he had great admiration for Senator Ashcroft. And so I was invited by the attorney general for an interview, and I told him I was interested. I told him I would only do it pro bono. You can't get paid for a job like this; it's patriotism. And he said, “Go for it.” And he turned out to be my biggest, strongest ally during the 33 months of the program.DL: Are you the managing partner of a boutique or midsize firm? If so, you know that your most important job is attracting and retaining top talent. It's not easy, especially if your benefits don't match up well with those of Biglaw firms or if your HR process feels “small time.” NexFirm has created an onboarding and benefits experience that rivals an Am Law 100 firm, so you can compete for the best talent at a price your firm can afford. Want to learn more? Contact NexFirm at 212-292-1002 or email betterbenefits@nexfirm.com.You talk about this in your books: you were recommended by a very prominent Democratic politician, and the administration at the time was Republican. George W. Bush was president, and John Ashcroft was the attorney general. Why wouldn't they have picked a Republican for this project?KF: Very good question. Senator Kennedy told both of them, “You better be careful here. This is a very, very uncertain program, with taxpayer money used to pay only certain victims. This could be a disaster. And you would be well-advised to pick someone who is not a prominent friend of yours, who is not perceived as just a Republican arm of the Justice Department or the White House. And I've got the perfect person. You couldn't pick a more opposite politician than my former chief of staff, Ken Feinberg. But look at what he's done.” And I think to Senator Kennedy's credit, and certainly to President Bush and to John Ashcroft's, they selected me.DL: As you would expect with a program of this size and complexity, there was controversy and certainly criticism over the years. But overall, looking back, I think people regard it widely as a huge success. Do you have a sense or an estimate of what percentage of people in the position to accept settlements through the program did that, rather than litigate? Because in accepting funds from the program, they did waive their right to bring all sorts of lawsuits.KF: That's correct. If you look at the statistics, if the statistics are a barometer of success, 5,300 applicants were eligible, because of death—about 2,950, somewhere in there—and the remaining claims were for physical injury. Of the 5,300, 97 percent voluntarily accepted the compensation. Only 94 people, 3 percent, opted out, and they all settled their cases five years later. There was never a trial on who was responsible in the law for 9/11. So if statistics are an indication—and I think they are a good indication—the program was a stunning success in accomplishing Congress's objective, which was diverting people voluntarily out of the court system.DL: Absolutely. And that's just a striking statistic. It was really successful in getting funds to families that needed it. They had lost breadwinners; they had lost loved ones. It was hugely successful, and it did not take a decade, as some of these cases involving just thousands of victims often do.I was struck by one thing you just said. You mentioned there was really no trial. And in reading your accounts of your work on this, it seemed almost like people viewed talking to you and your colleagues, Camille and others on this—I think they almost viewed that as their opportunity to be heard, since there wasn't a trial where they would get to testify.KF: That's correct. The primary reason for the success of the 9/11 Fund, and a valuable lesson for me thereafter, was this: give victims the opportunity to be heard, not only in public town-hall meetings where collectively people can vent, but in private, with doors closed. It's just the victim and Feinberg or his designee, Camille. We were the face of the government here. You can't get a meeting with the secretary of defense or the attorney general, the head of the Department of Justice. What you can get is an opportunity behind closed doors to express your anger, your frustration, your disappointment, your sense of uncertainty, with the government official responsible for cutting the checks. And that had an enormous difference in assuring the success of the program.DL: What would you say was the hardest aspect of your work on the Fund?KF: The hardest part of the 9/11 Fund, which I'll never recover from, was not calculating the value of a life. Judges and juries do that every day, David, in every court, in New Jersey and 49 other states. That is not a difficult assignment. What would the victim have earned over a work life? Add something for pain and suffering and emotional distress, and there's your check.The hardest part in any of these funds, starting with 9/11—the most difficult aspect, the challenge—is empathy, and your willingness to sit for over 900 separate hearings, me alone with family members or victims, to hear what they want to tell you, and to make that meeting, from their perspective, worthwhile and constructive. That's the hard part.DL: Did you find it sometimes difficult to remain emotionally composed? Or did you, after a while, develop a sort of thick skin?KF: You remain composed. You are a professional. You have a job to do, for the president of the United States. You can't start wailing and crying in the presence of somebody who was also wailing and crying, so you have to compose yourself. But I tell people who say, “Could I do what you did?” I say, “Sure. There are plenty of people in this country that can do what I did—if you can brace yourself for the emotional trauma that comes with meeting with victim after victim after victim and hearing their stories, which are...” You can't make them up. They're so heart-wrenching and so tragic.I'll give you one example. A lady came to see me, 26 years old, sobbing—one of hundreds of people I met with. “Mr. Feinberg, I lost my husband. He was a fireman at the World Trade Center. He died on 9/11. And he left me with our two children, six and four. Now, Mr. Feinberg, you've calculated and told me I'm going to receive $2.4 million, tax-free, from this 9/11 Fund. I want it in 30 days.”I said to Mrs. Jones, “This is public, taxpayer money. We have to go down to the U.S. Treasury. They've got to cut the checks; they've got to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. It may be 60 days or 90 days, but you'll get your money.”“No. Thirty days.”I said, “Mrs. Jones, why do you need the money in 30 days?”She said, “Why? I'll tell you why, Mr. Feinberg. I have terminal cancer. I have 10 weeks to live. My husband was going to survive me and take care of our two children. Now they're going to be orphans. I have got to get this money, find a guardian, make sure the money's safe, prepare for the kids' schooling. I don't have a lot of time. I need your help.”Well, we ran down to the U.S. Treasury and helped process the check in record time. We got her the money in 30 days—and eight weeks later, she died. Now when you hear story after story like this, you get some indication of the emotional pressure that builds and is debilitating, frankly. And we managed to get through it.DL: Wow. I got a little choked up just even hearing you tell that. Wow—I really don't know what to say.When you were working on the 9/11 Fund, did you have time for any other matters, or was this pretty much exclusively what you were working on for the 33 months?KF: Professionally, it was exclusive. Now what I did was, I stayed in my law firm, so I had a living. Other people in the firm were generating income for the firm; I wasn't on the dole. But it was exclusive. During the day, you are swamped with these individual requests, decisions that have to be made, checks that have to be cut. At night, I escaped: opera, orchestral concerts, chamber music, art museums—the height of civilization. During the day, in the depths of horror of civilization; at night, an escape, an opportunity to just enjoy the benefits of civilization. You better have a loving family, as I did, that stands behind you—because you never get over it, really.DL: That's such an important lesson, to actually have that time—because if you wanted to, you could have worked on this 24/7. But it is important to have some time to just clear your head or spend time with your family, especially just given what you were dealing with day-to-day.KF: That's right. And of course, during the day, we made a point of that as well. If we were holding hearings like the one I just explained, we'd take a one-hour break, go for a walk, go into Central Park or into downtown Washington, buy an ice cream cone, see the kids playing in playgrounds and laughing. You've got to let the steam out of the pressure cooker, or it'll kill you. And that was the most difficult part of the whole program. In all of these programs, that's the common denominator: emotional stress and unhappiness on the part of the victims.DL: One last question, before we turn to some other matters. There was also a very large logistical apparatus associated with this, right? For example, PricewaterhouseCoopers. It wasn't just you and Camille trying to deal with these thousands of survivors and claimants; you did have support.KF: That's right. Pricewaterhouse won the bid at the Justice Department. This is public: Pricewaterhouse, for something like around $100 million, put 450 people to work with us to help us process claims, appraise values, do the research. Pricewaterhouse was a tremendous ally and has gone on, since 9/11, to handle claims design and claims administration, as one of its many specialties. Emily Kent, Chuck Hacker, people like that we worked with for years, very much experts in these areas.DL: So after your work on the 9/11 Fund, you've worked on a number of these types of matters. Is there one that you would say ranks second in terms of complexity or difficulty or meaningfulness to you?KF: Yes. Deepwater Horizon in 2011, 2012—that oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico blew up and killed about, I don't know, 15 to 20 people in the explosion. But the real challenge in that program was how we received, in 16 months, about 1,250,000 claims for business interruption, business losses, property damage. We received over a million claims from 50 states. I think we got probably a dozen claims from New Jersey; I didn't know the oil had gotten to New Jersey. We received claims from 35 foreign countries. And the sheer volume of the disaster overwhelmed us. We had, at one point, something like 40,000 people—vendors—working for us. We had 35 offices throughout the Gulf of Mexico, from Galveston, Texas, all the way to Mobile Bay, Alabama. Nevertheless, in 16 months, on behalf of BP, Deepwater Horizon, we paid out all BP money, a little over $7 billion, to 550,000 eligible claimants. And that, I would say, other than 9/11, had the greatest impact and was the most satisfying.DL: You mentioned some claims coming from some pretty far-flung jurisdictions. In these programs, how much of a problem is fraud?KF: Not much. First of all, with death claims like 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombings or the 20 first-graders who died in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, at the hands of a deranged gunmen—most of the time, in traumatic death and injury, you've got records. No one can beat the system; you have to have a death certificate. In 9/11, where are your military records, if you were at the Pentagon? Where are the airplane manifests? You've got to be on the manifest if you were flying on that plane.Now, the problem becomes more pronounced in something like BP, where you've got over a million claims, and you wonder, how many people can claim injury from this explosion? There we had an anti-fraud unit—Guidepost, Bart Schwartz's company—and they did a tremendous job of spot-checking claims. I think that out of over a million claims, there may have been 25,000 that were suspicious. And we sent those claims to the Justice Department, and they prosecuted a fair number of people. But it wasn't a huge problem. I think the fraud rate was something like 3 percent; that's nothing. So overall, we haven't found—and we have to be ever-vigilant, you're right—but we haven't found much in the way of fraud.DL: I'm glad to hear that, because it would really be very depressing to think that there were people trying to profiteer off these terrible disasters and tragedies. Speaking of continuing disasters and tragedies, turning to current events, you are now working with Southern California Edison in dealing with claims related to the Eaton Fire. And this is a pending matter, so of course you may have some limits in terms of what you can discuss, but what can you say in a general sense about this undertaking?KF: This is the Los Angeles wildfires that everybody knows about, from the last nine or ten months—the tremendous fire damage in Los Angeles. One of the fires, or one of the selected hubs of the fire, was the Eaton Fire. Southern California Edison, the utility involved in the litigation and finger-pointing, decided to set up, à la 9/11, a voluntary claims program. Not so much to deal with death—there were about 19 deaths, and a handful of physical injuries—but terrible fire damage, destroyed homes, damaged businesses, smoke and ash and soot, for miles in every direction. And the utility decided, its executive decided, “We want to do the right thing here. We may be held liable or we may not be held liable for the fire, but we think the right thing to do is nip in the bud this idea of extended litigation. Look at 9/11: only 94 people ended up suing. We want to set up a program.”They came to Camille and me. Over the last eight weeks, we've designed the program, and I think in the last week of October or the first week of November, you will see publicly, “Here is the protocol; here is the claim form. Please submit your claims, and we'll get them paid within 90 days.” And if history is an indicator, Camille and I think that the Eaton Fire Protocol will be a success, and the great bulk of the thousands of victims will voluntarily decide to come into the program. We'll see. [Ed. note: On Wednesday, a few days after Ken and I recorded this episode, Southern California Edison announced its Wildfire Recovery Compensation Program.]DL: That raises a question that I'm curious about. How would you describe the relationship between the work that you and Camille and your colleagues do and the traditional work of the courts, in terms of in-the-trenches litigation? Because I do wonder whether the growth in your field is perhaps related to some developments in litigation, in terms of litigation becoming more expensive over the decades (in a way that far outstrips inflation), more complicated, or more protracted. How would you characterize that relationship?KF: I would say that the programs that we design and administer—like 9/11, like BP, plus the Eaton wildfires—are an exception to the rule. Nobody should think that these programs that we have worked on are the wave of the future. They are not the wave of the future; they are isolated, unique examples, where a company—or in 9/11, the U.S. government—decides, “We ought to set up a special program where the courts aren't involved, certainly not directly.” In 9/11, they were prohibited to be involved, by statute; in some of these other programs, like BP, the courts have a relationship, but they don't interfere with the day-to-day administration of the program.And I think the American people have a lot of faith in the litigation system that you correctly point out can be uncertain, very inefficient, and very costly. But the American people, since the founding of the country, think, “You pick your lawyer, I'll pick my lawyer, and we'll have a judge and jury decide.” That's the American rule of law; I don't think it's going to change. But occasionally there is a groundswell of public pressure to come up with a program, or there'll be a company—like the utility, like BP—that decides to have a program.And I'll give you one other example: the Catholic Church confronted thousands of claims of sexual abuse by priests. It came to us, and we set up a program—just like 9/11, just like BP—where we invited, voluntarily, any minor—any minor from decades ago, now an adult—who had been abused by the church to come into this voluntary program. We paid out, I think, $700 million to $800 million, to victims in dioceses around the country. So there's another example—Camille did most of that—but these programs are all relatively rare. There are thousands of litigations every day, and nothing's going to change that.DL: I had a guest on a few weeks ago, Chris Seeger of Seeger Weiss, who does a lot of work in the mass-tort space. It's interesting: I feel that that space has evolved, and maybe in some ways it's more efficient than it used to be. They have these multi-district litigation panels, they have these bellwether trials, and then things often get settled, once people have a sense of the values. That system and your approach seem to have some similarities, in the sense that you're not individually trying each one of these cases, and you're having somebody with liability come forward and voluntarily pay out money, after some kind of negotiation.KF: Well, there's certainly negotiation in what Chris Seeger does; I'm not sure we have much negotiation. We say, “Here's the amount under the administrative scheme.” It's like in workers' compensation: here's the amount. You don't have to take it. There's nothing to really talk about, unless you have new evidence that we're not aware of. And those programs, when we do design them, seem to work very efficiently.Again, if you ask Camille Biros what was the toughest part of valuing individual claims of sexual-abuse directed at minors, she would say, “These hearings: we gave every person who wanted an opportunity to be heard.” And when they come to see Camille, they don't come to talk about money; they want validation for what they went through. “Believe me, will you? Ken, Camille, believe me.” And when Camille says, “We do believe you,” they immediately, or almost immediately, accept the compensation and sign a release: “I will not sue the Catholic diocese.”DL: So you mentioned there isn't really much negotiation, but you did talk in the book about these sort of “appeals.” You had these two tracks, “Appeals A” and “Appeals B.” Can you talk about that? Did you ever revisit what you had set as the award for a particular victim's family, after hearing from them in person?KF: Sure. Now, remember, those appeals came back to us, not to a court; there's no court involvement. But in 9/11, in BP, if somebody said, “You made a mistake—you didn't account for these profits or this revenue, or you didn't take into account this contract that my dead firefighter husband had that would've given him a lot more money”—of course, we'll revisit that. We invited that. But that's an internal appeals process. The people who calculated the value of the claim are the same people that are going to be looking at revisiting the claim. But again, that's due process, and that's something that we thought was important.DL: You and Camille have been doing this really important work for decades. Since this is, of course, shortly after your 80th birthday, I should ask: do you have future plans? You're tackling some of the most complicated matters, headline-making matters. Would you ever want to retire at some point?KF: I have no intention of retiring. I do agree that when you reach a certain pinnacle in what you've done, you do slow down. We are much more selective in what we do. I used to have maybe 15 mediations going on at once; now, we have one or two matters, like the Los Angeles wildfires. As long as I'm capable, as long as Camille's willing, we'll continue to do it, but we'll be very careful about what we select to do. We don't travel much. The Los Angeles wildfires was largely Zooms, going back and forth. And we're not going to administer that program. We had administered 9/11 and BP; we're trying to move away from that. It's very time-consuming and stressful. So we've accomplished a great deal over the last 50 years—but as long as we can do it, we'll continue to do it.DL: Do you have any junior colleagues who would take over what you and Camille have built?KF: We don't have junior colleagues. There's just the two of us and Cindy Sanzotta, our receptionist. But it's an interesting question: “Who's after Feinberg? Who's next in doing this?” I think there are thousands of people in this country who could do what we do. It is not rocket science. It really isn't. I'll tell you what's difficult: the emotion. If somebody wants to do what we do, you better brace yourself for the emotion, the anger, the frustration, the finger pointing. It goes with the territory. And if you don't have the psychological ability to handle this type of stress, stay away. But I'm sure somebody will be there, and no one's irreplaceable.DL: Well, I know I personally could not handle it. I worked when I was at a law firm on civil litigation over insurance proceeds related to the World Trade Center, and that was a very draining case, and I was very glad to no longer be on it. So I could not do what you and Camille do. But let me ask you, to end this section on a positive note: what would you say is the most rewarding or meaningful or satisfying aspect of the work that you do on these programs?KF: Giving back to the community. Public service. Helping the community heal. Not so much the individuals; the individuals are part of the community. “Every individual can make a difference.” I remember that every day, what John F. Kennedy said: government service is a noble undertaking. So what's most rewarding for me is that although I'm a private practitioner—I am no longer in government service, since my days with Senator Kennedy—I'd like to think that I performed a valuable service for the community, the resilience of the community, the charity exhibited by the community. And that gives me a great sense of self-satisfaction.DL: You absolutely have. It's been amazing, and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to join me.So now, onto our speed round. These are four questions that are standardized. My first question is, what do you like the least about the law? And this can either be the practice of law or law in a more abstract sense.KF: Uncertainty. What I don't like about the law is—and I guess maybe it's the flip side of the best way to get to a result—I don't like the uncertainty of the law. I don't like the fact that until the very end of the process, you don't know if your view and opinion will prevail. And I think losing control over your destiny in that regard is problematic.DL: My second question—and maybe we touched on this a little bit, when we talked about your father's opinions—what would you be if you were not a lawyer?KF: Probably an actor. As I say, I almost became an actor. And I still love theater and the movies and Broadway shows. If my father hadn't given me that advice, I was on the cusp of pursuing a career in the theater.DL: Have you dabbled in anything in your (probably limited) spare time—community theater, anything like that?KF: No, but I certainly have prioritized in my spare time classical music and the peace and optimism it brings to the listener. It's been an important part of my life.DL: My third question is, how much sleep do you get each night?KF: Well, it varies from program to program. I'd like to get seven hours. That's what my doctors tell me: “Ken, very important—more important than pills and exercise and diet—is sleep. Your body needs a minimum of seven hours.” Well, for me, seven hours is rare—it's more like six or even five, and during 9/11 or during Eaton wildfires, it might be more like four or five. And that's not enough, and that is a problem.DL: My last question is, any final words of wisdom, such as career advice or life advice, for my listeners?KF: Yes, I'll give you some career and life advice. It's very simple: don't plan too far ahead. People have this view—you may think you know what you want to do with your career. You may think you know what life holds for you. You don't know. If I've learned anything over the last decades, life has a way of changing the best-laid plans. These 9/11 husbands and wives said goodbye to their children, “we'll see you for dinner,” a perfunctory wave—and they never saw them again. Dust, not even a body. And the idea I tell law students—who say, ”I'm going to be a corporate lawyer,” or “I'm going to be a litigator”—I tell them, “You have no idea what your legal career will look like. Look at Feinberg; he never planned on this. He never thought, in his wildest dreams, that this would be his chosen avenue of the law.”My advice: enjoy the moment. Do what you like now. Don't worry too much about what you'll be doing two years, five years, 10 years, a lifetime ahead of you. It doesn't work that way. Everybody gets thrown curveballs, and that's advice I give to everybody.DL: Well, you did not plan out your career, but it has turned out wonderfully, and the country is better for it. Thank you, Ken, both for your work on all these matters over the years and for joining me today.KF: A privilege and an honor. Thanks, David.DL: Thanks so much to Ken for joining me—and, of course, for his decades of work resolving some of the thorniest disputes in the country, which is truly a form of public service.Thanks to NexFirm for sponsoring the Original Jurisdiction podcast. NexFirm has helped many attorneys to leave Biglaw and launch firms of their own. To explore this opportunity, please contact NexFirm at 212-292-1000 or email careerdevelopment@nexfirm.com to learn more.Thanks to Tommy Harron, my sound engineer here at Original Jurisdiction, and thanks to you, my listeners and readers. To connect with me, please email me at davidlat@substack.com, or find me on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn, at davidlat, and on Instagram and Threads at davidbenjaminlat.If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. Please subscribe to the Original Jurisdiction newsletter if you don't already, over at davidlat.substack.com. This podcast is free, but it's made possible by paid subscriptions to the newsletter.The next episode should appear on or about Wednesday, November 12. Until then, may your thinking be original and your jurisdiction free of defects.Thanks for reading Original Jurisdiction, and thanks to my paid subscribers for making this publication possible. 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When you live around New York City like I did for 30 years, you take people on lots of tours. We've had friends visit us from all over the country - all over the world - and, of course, they all want to see the sights of New York that they've heard so much about. Well, we got to take many of them to the Statue of Liberty, the late great World Trade Center, Times Square, Broadway, the United Nations, Central Park. And something interesting actually happened to me as I introduced others to the place that I knew so much about and that I'd seen a lot of times. In a sense, I sort of discovered those places for myself in a new way, and I was actually energized by watching their reactions to seeing it all for the first time. I'm Ron Hutchcraft and I want to have A Word With You today about "The Surprising Secret of Exciting Faith." Those places that I knew so well actually became more special to me when I introduced others to them. Just kind of like what happens when you or I introduce someone to the Savior we've known for so long. That's why Paul prayed what he did in Philemon verse 6, our word for today from the Word of God. Interesting verse. Here's what he said, "I pray that you may be active in sharing your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ." Now there are a lot of reasons to tell people about the life and the love that you found in Jesus Christ, not the least of which is that their eternity depends on them understanding what Jesus did on the cross for them. But here Paul gives a reason we may not think much about or we don't hear much about, and that is that in sharing your relationship with Christ you actually begin to really understand your relationship with Christ as you never did before. If you remain silent about Jesus, you can just coast along in a comfortable but shallow spiritual rut. But once you step up to your responsibility to get this life-saving message to the people around you, something awakens in your own soul. You have to find ways to explain what Jesus did without all that religious vocabulary which I call "Christianese." And that vocabulary that we use so casually, allows us to believe without thinking a lot about it. We just kind of agree with the words. But as you struggle to explain a relationship with Christ to someone else who doesn't know all those words, you actually start to better understand that relationship yourself. It's like me taking tours of where I lived - it becomes more special to me as I tell someone else about it. As I see the wonder of someone else discovering what I discovered a long time ago. When you tell others about Jesus, He starts to mean even more to you. And if you're like most believers, you're actually missing this life-changing, faith-expanding experience. Surveys show that up to 90% of Christians never talk about their relationship with Jesus Christ. Which means 90% are missing what Paul calls "a full understanding of every good thing we have in Christ." And the lost folks in their circle of influence are likely to go into a Christless eternity, an unthinkable eternity because of the silence of the Christian they knew. Please don't let that be you. It's time to start blowing the lid off our relationship with Jesus by telling people about that relationship - about explaining it to others! Because when you show someone else this Jesus that you know, He'll mean more to you than He's ever meant before!

Howie Kurtz on the arrest of two suspects for the jewel heist at the Louvre Museum in Paris, the launch of Elon Musk's new AI-powered online encyclopedia called Grocopedia, and a resurfaced photograph of NYC mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani with an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Follow Howie on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@HowardKurtz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠For more #MediaBuzz click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it take to keep your voice—and your purpose—strong through every season of life? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with my friend Bill Ratner, one of Hollywood's most recognized voice actors, best known as Flint from GI Joe. Bill's voice has carried him through radio, animation, and narration, but what stands out most is how he's used that same voice to serve others through storytelling, teaching, and grief counseling. Together, we explore the heart behind his work—from bringing animated heroes to life to standing on The Moth stage and helping people find healing through poetry. Bill shares lessons from his own journey, including losing both parents early, finding family in unexpected places, and discovering how creative expression can rebuild what life breaks down. We also reflect on 9/11, preparedness, and the quiet confidence that comes from trusting your training—whether you're a first responder, a performer, or just navigating the unknown. This conversation isn't just about performance; it's about presence. It's about using your story, your craft, and your compassion to keep moving forward—unstoppable, one voice at a time. Highlights: 00:31 – Hear the Flint voice and what it takes to bring animated characters to life. 06:57 – Learn why an uneven college path still led to a lifelong acting career. 11:50 – Understand how GI Joe became a team and a toy phenomenon that shaped culture. 15:58 – See how comics and cartoons boosted classroom literacy when used well. 17:06 – Pick up simple ways parents can spark reading through shared stories. 19:29 – Discover how early, honest conversations about death can model resilience. 24:09 – Learn to critique ads and media like a pro to sharpen your own performance. 36:19 – Follow the pivot from radio to voiceover and why specialization pays. 47:48 – Hear practical editing approaches and accessible tools that keep shows tight. 49:38 – Learn how The Moth builds storytelling chops through timed, judged practice. 55:21 – See how poetry—and poetry therapy—support grief work with students. 59:39 – Take notes on memoir writing, emotional management, and one-person shows. About the Guest: Bill Ratner is one of America's best known voice actors and author of poetry collections Lamenting While Doing Laps in the Lake (Slow Lightning Lit 2024,) Fear of Fish (Alien Buddha Press 2021,) To Decorate a Casket (Finishing Line Press 2021,) and the non-fiction book Parenting For The Digital Age: The Truth Behind Media's Effect On Children and What To Do About It (Familius Books 2014.) He is a 9-time winner of the Moth StorySLAM, 2-time winner of Best of The Hollywood Fringe Extension Award for Solo Performance, Best of the Net Poetry Nominee 2023 (Lascaux Review,) and New Millennium "America One Year From Now" Writing Award Finalist. His writing appears in Best Small Fictions 2021 (Sonder Press,) Missouri Review (audio,) Baltimore Review, Chiron Review, Feminine Collective, and other journals. He is the voice of "Flint" in the TV cartoon G.I. Joe, "Donnell Udina" in the computer game Mass Effect, the voice of Air Disasters on Smithsonian Channel, NewsNation, and network TV affiliates across the country. He is a committee chair for his union, SAG-AFTRA, teaches Voiceovers for SAG-AFTRA Foundation, Media Awareness for Los Angeles Unified School District, and is a trained grief counsellor. Member: Actors Equity Association, Screen Actors Guild-AFTRA, National Storytelling Network • https://billratner.com • @billratner Ways to connect with Bill: https://soundcloud.com/bill-ratner https://www.instagram.com/billratner/ https://twitter.com/billratner https://www.threads.net/@billratner https://billratner.tumblr.com https://www.youtube.com/@billratner/videos https://www.facebook.com/billratner.voiceover.author https://bsky.app/profile/bilorat.bsky.social About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well on a gracious hello to you, wherever you may be, I am your host. Mike hingson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to have a voice actor, person, Bill Ratner, who you want to know who Bill Radnor is, go back and watch the old GI Joe cartoons and listen to the voice of Flint.   Bill Ratner ** 01:42 All right. Lady Jay, you better get your battle gear on, because Cobra is on their way. And I can't bring up the Lacher threat weapon system. We got to get out of here. Yo, Joe,   Michael Hingson ** 01:52 there you go. I rest my case Well, Bill, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Bill Ratner ** 02:00 We can't rest now. Michael, we've just begun. No, we've just begun.   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 We got to keep going here. Well, I'm really glad that you're here. Bill is another person who we inveigled to get on unstoppable mindset with the help of Walden Hughes. And so that means we can talk about Walden all we want today. Bill just saying, oh goodness. And I got a lot to say. Let me tell you perfect, perfect. Bring it on. So we are really grateful to Walden, although I hope he's not listening. We don't want to give him a big head. But no, seriously, we're really grateful. Ah, good point.   Bill Ratner ** 02:38 But his posture, oddly enough, is perfect.   Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Well, there you go. What do you do? He practiced. Well, anyway, we're glad you're here. Tell us about the early bill, growing up and all that stuff. It's always fun to start a good beginning.   Bill Ratner ** 02:54 Well, I was a very lucky little boy. I was born in Des Moines, Iowa in 1947 to two lovely people, professionals, both with master's degree out at University of Chicago. My mother was a social worker. My father had an MBA in business. He was managing editor of Better Homes and Gardens magazine. So I had the joy of living in a better home and living in a garden.   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 My mother. How long were you in Des Moines?   Bill Ratner ** 03:24 Five and a half years left before my sixth birthday. My dad got a fancy job at an ad agency in Minneapolis, and had a big brother named Pete and big handsome, curly haired boy with green eyes. And moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and was was brought up there.   Michael Hingson ** 03:45 Wow. So you went to school there and and chased the girls and all that stuff.   Bill Ratner ** 03:54 I went to school there at Blake School for Boys in Hopkins, Minnesota. Couldn't chase the girls day school, but the girls we are allowed to dance with certainly not chase. Michael was at woodhue dancing school, the Northrop girls from Northrop girls school and the Blake boys were put together in eighth grade and taught the Cha Cha Cha, the waltz, the Charleston, and we danced together, and the girls wore white gloves, and we sniffed their perfume, and we all learned how to be lovers when we were 45   Michael Hingson ** 04:37 There you are. Well, as long as you learned at some point, that's a good start.   Bill Ratner ** 04:44 It's a weird generation. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 04:46 I've been to Des Moines before. I was born in Chicago, but moved out to California when I was five, but I did some work with the National Federation of the Blind in the mid 19. 1970s 1976 into 1978 so spent time at the Iowa Commission for the Blind in Des Moines, which became a top agency for the Blind in well, the late 50s into the to the 60s and so on. So   Bill Ratner ** 05:15 both my parents are from Chicago. My father from the south side of Chicago, 44th and Kenzie, which was a Irish, Polish, Italian, Jewish, Ukrainian neighborhood. And my mother from Glencoe, which was a middle class suburb above Northwestern University in Evanston.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 I Where were you born? 57th and union, north, south side, no, South   Bill Ratner ** 05:42 57th union is that? Is that west of Kenzie?   Michael Hingson ** 05:46 You know, I don't remember the geography well enough to know, but I know that it was, I think, Mount Sinai Hospital where I was born. But it was, it's, it's, it's a pretty tough neighborhood today. So I understand,   Bill Ratner ** 06:00 yeah, yeah, my it was tough, then it's tough now,   Michael Hingson ** 06:03 yeah, I think it's tougher, supposedly, than it was. But we lived there for five years, and then we we moved to California, and I remember some things about Chicago. I remember walking down to the local candy store most days, and had no problem doing that. My parents were told they should shut me away at a home somewhere, because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything. And my parents said, You guys are you're totally wrong. And they brought me up with that attitude. So, you   Bill Ratner ** 06:32 know who said that the school says school so that   Michael Hingson ** 06:35 doctors doctors when they discovered I was blind with the   Bill Ratner ** 06:38 kid, goodness gracious, horrified.   Michael Hingson ** 06:44 Well, my parents said absolutely not, and they brought me up, and they actually worked with other parents of premature kids who became blind, and when kindergarten started in for us in in the age of four, they actually had a special kindergarten class for blind kids at the Perry School, which is where I went. And so I did that for a year, learn braille and some other things. Then we moved to California, but yeah, and I go back to Chicago every so often. And when I do nowadays, they I one of my favorite places to migrate in Chicago is Garrett Popcorn.   Bill Ratner ** 07:21 Ah, yes, with caramel corn, regular corn, the   Michael Hingson ** 07:25 Chicago blend, which is a mixture, yeah, the Chicago blend is cheese corn, well, as it is with caramel corn, and they put much other mozzarella on it as well. It's really good.   Bill Ratner ** 07:39 Yeah, so we're on the air. Michael, what do you call your what do you call your program? Here I am your new friend, and I can't even announce your program because I don't know   Michael Hingson ** 07:48 the name, unstoppable mindset. This   Bill Ratner ** 07:51 is unstoppable mindset.   Michael Hingson ** 07:56 We're back. Well, we're back already. We're fast. So you, you, you moved off elsewhere, out of Des Moines and all that. And where did you go to college?   Bill Ratner ** 08:09 Well, this is like, why did you this is, this is a bit like talking about the Vietnam War. Looking back on my college career is like looking back on the Vietnam War series, a series of delusions and defeats. By the time I the time i for college, by the time I was applying for college, I was an orphan, orphan, having been born to fabulous parents who died too young of natural causes. So my grades in high school were my mediocre. I couldn't get into the Ivy Leagues. I got into the big 10 schools. My stepmother said, you're going to Michigan State in East Lansing because your cousin Eddie became a successful realtor. And Michigan State was known as mu u it was the most successful, largest agriculture college and university in the country. Kids from South Asia, China, Northern Europe, Southern Europe, South America all over the world came to Michigan State to study agricultural sciences, children of rich farmers all over the world and middle class farmers all over the world, and a huge police science department. Part of the campus was fenced off, and the young cadets, 1819, 20 years old, would practice on the rest of the student body, uniformed with hats and all right, excuse me, young man, we're just going to get some pizza at eight o'clock on Friday night. Stand against your car. Hands in your car. I said, Are you guys practicing again? Shut up and spread your legs. So that was that was Michigan State, and even though both my parents had master's degrees, I just found all the diversions available in the 1960s to be too interesting, and was not invited. Return after my sophomore year, and in order to flunk out of a big 10 University, and they're fine universities, all of them, you have to be either really determined or not so smart, not really capable of doing that level of study in undergraduate school. And I'd like to think that I was determined. I used to show up for my exams with a little blue book, and the only thing I would write is due to lack of knowledge, I am unable to complete this exam, sign Bill ranter and get up early and hand it in and go off. And so what was, what was left for a young man like that was the theater I'd seen the great Zero Mostel when I was 14 years old and on stage live, he looked just like my father, and he was funny, and if I Were a rich man, and that's the grade zero must tell. Yeah, and it took about five, no, it took about six, seven years to percolate inside my bread and my brain. In high school, I didn't want to do theater. The cheerleaders and guys who I had didn't happen to be friends with or doing theater. I took my girlfriends to see plays, but when I was 21 I started acting, and I've been an actor ever since. I'm a committee chair on the screen actors guild in Hollywood and Screen Actors Guild AFTRA, and work as a voice actor and collect my pensions and God bless the union.   Michael Hingson ** 11:44 Well, hey, as long as it works and you're making progress, you know you're still with it, right?   Bill Ratner ** 11:53 That's the that's the point. There's no accounting for taste in my business. Michael, you work for a few different broadcast entities at my age. And it's, you know, it's younger people. It's 18 to 3418 years to 34 years old is the ideal demographic for advertisers, Ford, Motor Company, Dove soap, Betty, Crocker, cake mixes and cereals, every conceivable product that sold online or sold on television and radio. This is my this is my meat, and I don't work for religion. However, if a religious organization calls, I call and say, I I'm not, not qualified or not have my divinity degree in order to sell your church to the public?   Michael Hingson ** 12:46 Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I can understand that. But you, you obviously do a lot, and as we talked about, you were Flint and GI Joe, which is kind of cool.   Bill Ratner ** 13:01 Flynn GI Joe was very cool. Hasbro Corporation, which was based in Providence, Rhode Island, had a huge success with GI Joe, the figure. The figure was about 11 and a half inches tall, like a Barbie, and was at first, was introduced to the public after the Korean War. There is a comic book that was that was also published about GI Joe. He was an individual figure. He was a figure, a sort of mythic cartoon figure during World War Two, GI Joe, generic American soldier, fighting man and but the Vietnam war dragged on for a long time, and the American buying public or buying kids toys got tired of GI Joe, got tired of a military figure in their household and stopped buying. And when Nixon ended the Vietnam War, or allotted to finish in 1974 Hasbro was in the tank. It's got its stock was cheap, and executives are getting nervous. And then came the Great George Lucas in Star Wars, who shrank all these action figures down from 11 and a half inches to three and a half inches, and went to China and had Chinese game and toy makers make Star Wars toys, and began to earn billions and billions dollars. And so Hasbro said, let's turn GI Joe into into a team. And the team began with flint and Lady J and Scarlett and Duke and Destro and cover commander, and grew to 85 different characters, because Hasbro and the toy maker partners could create 85 different sets of toys and action figures. So I was actor in this show and had a good time, and also a purveyor of a billion dollar industry of American toys. And the good news about these toys is I was at a conference where we signed autographs the voice actors, and we have supper with fans and so on. And I was sitting next to a 30 year old kid and his parents. And this kid was so knowledgeable about pop culture and every conceivable children's show and animated show that had ever been on the screen or on television. I turned to his mother and sort of being a wise acre, said, So ma'am, how do you feel about your 30 year old still playing with GI Joe action figures? And she said, Well, he and I both teach English in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania school system, and last year, the literacy level of my ninth graders was 50% 50% of those kids could not read in ninth grade. So I asked the principal if I could borrow my son's GI Joe, action figures, comic books and VHS tapes, recordings of the shows from TV. And he said, Sure, whatever you want to try. And so she did, and she played the video tapes, and these kids were thrilled. They'd never seen a GI Joe cartoon in class before. Passed out the comic books, let him read comics. And then she said, Okay, you guys. And passed out notebooks and pens and pencils, and said, I want you guys to make up some some shows, some GI Joe shows. And so they said, Yeah, we're ready. All right, Cobra, you better get into the barber shop, because the barber bill is no longer there and the fire engines are in the way. And wait a minute, there's a dog in the street. And so they're making this up, using their imagination, doing their schoolwork, by coming up with scenarios, imaginary fam fan fiction for GI Joe and she raised the literacy level in her classroom by 50% that year, by the end of that year, so, so that was the only story that I've ever heard about the sort of the efficacy of GI Joe, other than, you know, kids play with them. Do they? Are they shooting each other all the time? I certainly hope not. I hope not. Are they using the action figures? Do they strip their guns off and put them in a little, you know, stub over by the side and and have them do physical battle with each other, or have them hump the woods, or have them climb the stairs, or have them search the trees. Who knows what kids do? Same with same with girls and and Barbies. Barbie has been a source of fun and creativity for lots of girls, and the source of of worry and bother to a lot of parents as   Michael Hingson ** 17:54 well. Well, at the same time, though, when kids start to react and relate to some of these things. It's, it's pretty cool. I mean, look what's happened with the whole Harry Potter movement and craze. Harry Potter has probably done more in the last 20 or 25 years to promote reading for kids than most anything else, and   Bill Ratner ** 18:17 that's because it's such a good series of books. I read them to my daughters, yeah. And the quality of writing. She was a brilliant writer, not only just the stories and the storytelling, which is fun to watch in the movies, and you know, it's great for a parent to read. If there are any parents listening, I don't care how old your kids are. I don't care if they're 15. Offer to read to them. The 15 year old might, of course, say mom, but anybody younger than that might say either, all right, fine, which is, which means you better do it or read, read a book. To me, sure, it's fun for the parent, fun for the kid, and it makes the child a completely different kind of thinker and worker and earner.   Michael Hingson ** 19:05 Well, also the people who they got to read the books for the recordings Stephen Fry and in the US here, Jim Dale did such an incredible job as well. I've, I've read the whole Harry Potter series more than once, because I just enjoy them, and I enjoy listening to the the voices. They do such a good job. Yeah. And of course, for me, one of the interesting stories that I know about Jim Dale reading Harry Potter was since it was published by Scholastic he was actually scheduled to do a reading from one of the Harry from the new Harry Potter book that was coming out in 2001 on September 11, he was going to be at Scholastic reading. And of course, that didn't happen because of of everything that did occur. So I don't know whether I'm. I'm assuming at some point a little bit later, he did, but still he was scheduled to be there and read. But it they are there. They've done so much to help promote reading, and a lot of those kinds of cartoons and so on. Have done some of that, which is, which is pretty good. So it's good to, you know, to see that continue to happen. Well, so you've written several books on poetry and so on, and I know that you you've mentioned more than once grief and loss. How come those words keep coming up?   Bill Ratner ** 20:40 Well, I had an unusual childhood. Again. I mentioned earlier how, what a lucky kid I was. My parents were happy, educated, good people, not abusers. You know, I don't have a I don't have horror stories to tell about my mother or my father, until my mother grew sick with breast cancer and and it took about a year and a half or two years to die when I was seven years old. The good news is, because she was a sensitive, educated social worker, as she was actually dying, she arranged a death counseling session with me and my older brother and the Unitarian minister who was also a death counselor, and whom she was seeing to talk about, you know, what it was like to be dying of breast cancer with two young kids. And at this session, which was sort of surprised me, I was second grade, came home from school. In the living room was my mother and my brother looking a little nervous, and Dr Carl storm from the Unitarian Church, and she said, you know, Dr storm from church, but he's also my therapist. And we talk about my illness and how I feel, and we talk about how much I love you boys, and talk about how I worry about Daddy. And this is what one does when one is in crisis. That was a moment that was not traumatic for me. It's a moment I recalled hundreds of times, and one that has been a guiding light through my life. My mother's death was very difficult for my older brother, who was 13 who grew up in World War Two without without my father, it was just him and my mother when he was off in the Pacific fighting in World War Two. And then I was born after the war. And the loss of a mother in a family is like the bottom dropping out of a family. But luckily, my dad met a woman he worked with a highly placed advertising executive, which was unusual for a female in the 1950s and she became our stepmother a year later, and we had some very lovely, warm family years with her extended family and our extended family and all of us together until my brother got sick, came down with kidney disease a couple of years before kidney dialysis was invented, and a couple of years before kidney transplants were done, died at 19. Had been the captain of the swimming team at our high school, but did a year in college out in California and died on Halloween of 1960 my father was 51 years old. His eldest son had died. He had lost his wife six years earlier. He was working too hard in the advertising industry, successful man and dropped out of a heart attack 14th birthday. Gosh, I found him unconscious on the floor of our master bathroom in our house. So my life changed. I My life has taught me many, many things. It's taught me how the defense system works in trauma. It's taught me the resilience of a child. It's taught me the kindness of strangers. It's taught me the sadness of loss.   Michael Hingson ** 24:09 Well, you, you seem to come through all of it pretty well. Well, thank you. A question behind that, just an observation, but, but you do seem to, you know, obviously, cope with all of it and do pretty well. So you, you've always liked to be involved in acting and so on. How did you actually end up deciding to be a voice actor?   Bill Ratner ** 24:39 Well, my dad, after he was managing editor of Better Homes and Gardens magazine in Des Moines for Meredith publishing, got offered a fancy job as executive vice president of the flower and mix division for Campbell within advertising and later at General Mills Corporation. From Betty Crocker brand, and would bring me to work all the time, and would sit with me, and we'd watch the wonderful old westerns that were on prime time television, rawhide and Gunsmoke and the Virginian and sure   Michael Hingson ** 25:15 and all those. Yeah, during   Bill Ratner ** 25:17 the commercials, my father would make fun of the commercials. Oh, look at that guy. And number one, son, that's lousy acting. Number two, listen to that copy. It's the dumbest ad copy I've ever seen. The jingles and and then he would say, No, that's a good commercial, right there. And he wasn't always negative. He would he was just a good critic of advertising. So at a very young age, starting, you know, when we watch television, I think the first television ever, he bought us when I was five years old, I was around one of the most educated, active, funny, animated television critics I could hope to have in my life as a 56789, 1011, 12 year old. And so when I was 12, I became one of the founding members of the Brotherhood of radio stations with my friends John Waterhouse and John Barstow and Steve gray and Bill Connors in South Minneapolis. I named my five watt night kit am transmitter after my sixth grade teacher, Bob close this is wclo stereo radio. And when I was in sixth grade, I built myself a switch box, and I had a turntable and I had an intercom, and I wired my house for sound, as did all the other boys in the in the B, O, R, S, and that's brotherhood of radio stations. And we were guests on each other's shows, and we were obsessed, and we would go to the shopping malls whenever a local DJ was making an appearance and torture him and ask him dumb questions and listen obsessively to American am radio. And at the time for am radio, not FM like today, or internet on your little radio tuner, all the big old grandma and grandpa radios, the wooden ones, were AM, for amplitude modulated. You could get stations at night, once the sun went down and the later it got, the ionosphere would lift and the am radio signals would bounce higher and farther. And in Minneapolis, at age six and seven, I was able to to listen to stations out of Mexico and Texas and Chicago, and was absolutely fascinated with with what was being put out. And I would, I would switch my brother when I was about eight years old, gave me a transistor radio, which I hid under my bed covers. And at night, would turn on and listen for, who knows, hours at a time, and just tuning the dial and tuning the dial from country to rock and roll to hit parade to news to commercials to to agric agriculture reports to cow crossings in Kansas and grain harvesting and cheese making in Wisconsin, and on and on and on that made up the great medium of radio that was handing its power and its business over to television, just as I was growing As a child. Fast, fascinating transition   Michael Hingson ** 28:18 and well, but as it was transitioning, how did that affect you?   Bill Ratner ** 28:26 It made television the romantic, exciting, dynamic medium. It made radio seem a little limited and antiquated, and although I listened for environment and wasn't able to drag a television set under my covers. Yeah, and television became memorable with with everything from actual world war two battle footage being shown because there wasn't enough programming to 1930s Warner Brothers gangster movies with James Cagney, Edward G   Michael Hingson ** 29:01 Robinson and yeah   Bill Ratner ** 29:02 to all the sitcoms, Leave It to Beaver and television cartoons and on and on and on. And the most memorable elements to me were the personalities, and some of whom were invisible. Five years old, I was watching a Kids program after school, after kindergarten. We'll be back with more funny puppets, marionettes after this message and the first words that came on from an invisible voice of this D baritone voice, this commercial message will be 60 seconds long, Chrysler Dodge for 1954 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I watched hypnotized, hypnotized as a 1953 dodge drove across the screen with a happy family of four waving out the window. And at the end of the commercial, I ran into the kitchen said, Mom, mom, I know what a minute. Is, and it was said, it had suddenly come into my brain in one of those very rare and memorable moments in a person's life where your brain actually speaks to you in its own private language and says, Here is something very new and very true, that 60 seconds is in fact a minute. When someone says, See you in five minutes, they mean five times that, five times as long as that. Chrysler commercial, five times 60. That's 300 seconds. And she said, Did you learn it that that on T in kindergarten? And I said, No, I learned it from kangaroo Bob on TV, his announcer, oh, kangaroo Bob, no, but this guy was invisible. And so at five years of age, I was aware of the existence of the practice of the sound, of the magic of the seemingly unlimited access to facts, figures, products, brand names that these voices had and would say on the air in This sort of majestic, patriarchal way,   Michael Hingson ** 31:21 and just think 20 years later, then you had James Earl Jones,   Bill Ratner ** 31:26 the great dame. James Earl Jones, father was a star on stage at that time the 1950s James Earl Jones came of age in the 60s and became Broadway and off Broadway star.   Michael Hingson ** 31:38 I got to see him in Othello. He was playing Othello. What a powerful performance. It was   Bill Ratner ** 31:43 wonderful performer. Yeah, yeah. I got to see him as Big Daddy in Canada, Hot Tin Roof, ah, live and in person, he got front row seats for me and my family.   Michael Hingson ** 31:53 Yeah, we weren't in the front row, but we saw it. We saw it on on Broadway,   Bill Ratner ** 31:58 the closest I ever got to James Earl Jones. He and I had the same voice over agent, woman named Rita vinari of southern Barth and benare company. And I came into the agency to audition for Doritos, and I hear this magnificent voice coming from behind a closed voiceover booth, saying, with a with a Spanish accent, Doritos. I thought that's James Earl Jones. Why is he saying burritos? And he came out, and he bowed to me, nodded and smiled, and I said, hello and and the agent probably in the booth and shut the door. And she said, I said, that was James Earl Jones. What a voice. What she said, Oh, he's such a nice man. And she said, but I couldn't. I was too embarrassed. I was too afraid to stop him from saying, Doritos. And it turns out he didn't get the gig. So it is some other voice actor got it because he didn't say, had he said Doritos with the agent froze it froze up. That was as close as I ever got to did you get the gig? Oh goodness no,   Michael Hingson ** 33:01 no, you didn't, huh? Oh, well, well, yeah. I mean, it was a very, it was, it was wonderful. It was James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer played Iago. Oh, goodness, oh, I know. What a what a combination. Well, so you, you did a lot of voiceover stuff. What did you do regarding radio moving forward? Or did you just go completely out of that and you were in TV? Or did you have any opportunity   Bill Ratner ** 33:33 for me to go back at age 15, my brother and father, who were big supporters of my radio. My dad would read my W, C, l, o, newsletter and need an initial, an excellent journalism son and my brother would bring his teenage friends up. He'd play the elderly brothers, man, you got an Elvis record, and I did. And you know, they were, they were big supporters for me as a 13 year old, but when I turned 14, and had lost my brother and my father, I lost my enthusiasm and put all of my radio equipment in a box intended to play with it later. Never, ever, ever did again. And when I was about 30 years old and I'd done years of acting in the theater, having a great time doing fun plays and small theaters in Minneapolis and South Dakota and and Oakland, California and San Francisco. I needed money, so I looked in the want ads and saw a job for telephone sales, and I thought, Well, I used to love the telephone. I used to make phony phone calls to people all the time. Used to call funeral homes. Hi Carson, funeral I help you. Yes, I'm calling to tell you that you have a you have a dark green slate tile. Roof, isn't that correct? Yes. Well, there's, there's a corpse on your roof. Lady for goodness sake, bring it down and we laugh and we record it and and so I thought, Well, gee, I used to have a lot of fun with the phone. And so I called the number of telephone sales and got hired to sell magazine subscriptions and dinner tickets to Union dinners and all kinds of things. And then I saw a new job at a radio station, suburban radio station out in Walnut Creek, California, a lovely Metro BART train ride. And so I got on the BART train, rode out there and walked in for the interview, and was told I was going to be selling small advertising packages on radio for the station on the phone. And so I called barber shops and beauty shops and gas stations in the area, and one guy picked up the phone and said, Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you on the radio right now? And I said, No, I'm just I'm in the sales room. Well, maybe you should be. And he slams the phone on me. He didn't want to talk to me anymore. It wasn't interested in buying advertising. I thought, gee. And I told somebody at the station, and they said, Well, you want to be in the radio? And he went, Yeah, I was on the radio when I was 13. And it just so happened that an older fellow was retiring from the 10am to 2pm slot. K I S King, kiss 99 and KD FM, Pittsburgh, California. And it was a beautiful music station. It was a music station. Remember, old enough will remember music that used to play in elevators that was like violin music, the Percy faith orchestra playing a Rolling Stone song here in the elevator. Yes, well, that's exactly what we played. And it would have been harder to get a job at the local rock stations because, you know, they were popular places. And so I applied for the job, and   Michael Hingson ** 37:06 could have lost your voice a lot sooner, and it would have been a lot harder if you had had to do Wolfman Jack. But that's another story.   Bill Ratner ** 37:13 Yeah, I used to listen to Wolf Man Jack. I worked in a studio in Hollywood. He became a studio. Yeah, big time.   Michael Hingson ** 37:22 Anyway, so you you got to work at the muzack station, got   Bill Ratner ** 37:27 to work at the muzack station, and I was moving to Los Angeles to go to a bigger market, to attempt to penetrate a bigger broadcast market. And one of the sales guys, a very nice guy named Ralph pizzella said, Well, when you get to La you should study with a friend of mine down to pie Troy, he teaches voiceovers. I said, What are voice overs? He said, You know that CVS Pharmacy commercial just carted up and did 75 tags, available in San Fernando, available in San Clemente, available in Los Angeles, available in Pasadena. And I said, Yeah. He said, Well, you didn't get paid any extra. You got paid your $165 a week. The guy who did that commercial for the ad agency got paid probably 300 bucks, plus extra for the tags, that's voiceovers. And I thought, why? There's an idea, what a concept. So he gave me the name and number of old friend acquaintance of his who he'd known in radio, named Don DiPietro, alias Johnny rabbit, who worked for the Dick Clark organization, had a big rock and roll station there. He'd come to LA was doing voiceovers and teaching voiceover classes in a little second story storefront out of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles. So I signed up for his class, and he was an experienced guy, and he liked me, and we all had fun, and I realized I was beginning to study like an actor at 1818, who goes to New York or goes to Los Angeles or Chicago or Atlanta or St Louis to act in the big theaters, and starts acting classes and realizes, oh my goodness, these people are truly professionals. I don't know how to do what they do. And so for six years, I took voice over classes, probably 4050, nights a year, and from disc jockeys, from ex show hosts, from actors, from animated cartoon voices, and put enough time in to get a degree in neurology in medical school. And worked my way up in radio in Los Angeles and had a morning show, a lovely show with a wonderful news man named Phil Reed, and we talked about things and reviewed movies and and played a lot of music. And then I realized, wait a minute, I'm earning three times the money in voiceovers as I am on the radio, and I have to get up at 430 in the morning to be on the radio. Uh, and a wonderful guy who was Johnny Carson's staff announcer named Jack angel said, You're not still on radio, are you? And I said, Well, yeah, I'm working in the morning. And Ka big, get out of there. Man, quit. Quit. And I thought, well, how can I quit? I've always wanted to be a radio announcer. And then there was another wonderful guy on the old am station, kmpc, sweet Dick Whittington. Whittington, right? And he said at a seminar that I went to at a union voice over training class, when you wake up at four in the morning and you swing your legs over the bed and your shoes hit the floor, and you put your head in your hands, and you say to yourself, I don't want to do this anymore. That's when you quit radio. Well, that hadn't happened to me. I was just getting up early to write some comedy segments and on and on and on, and then I was driving around town all day doing auditions and rented an ex girlfriend's second bedroom so that I could nap by myself during the day, when I had an hour in and I would as I would fall asleep, I'd picture myself every single day I'm in a dark voiceover studio, a microphone Is before me, a music stand is before the microphone, and on it is a piece of paper with advertising copy on it. On the other side of the large piece of glass of the recording booth are three individuals, my employers, I begin to read, and somehow the text leaps off the page, streams into my eyes, letter for letter, word for word, into a part of my back brain that I don't understand and can't describe. It is processed in my semi conscious mind with the help of voice over training and hope and faith, and comes out my mouth, goes into the microphone, is recorded in the digital recorder, and those three men, like little monkeys, lean forward and say, Wow, how do you do that? That was my daily creative visualization. Michael, that was my daily fantasy. And I had learned that from from Dale Carnegie, and I had learned that from Olympic athletes on NBC TV in the 60s and 70s, when the announcer would say, this young man you're seeing practicing his high jump is actually standing there. He's standing stationary, and the bouncing of the head is he's actually rehearsing in his mind running and running and leaping over the seven feet two inch bar and falling into the sawdust. And now he's doing it again, and you could just barely see the man nodding his head on camera at the exact rhythm that he would be running the 25 yards toward the high bar and leaping, and he raised his head up during the imaginary lead that he was visualizing, and then he actually jumped the seven foot two inches. That's how I learned about creative visualization from NBC sports on TV.   Michael Hingson ** 43:23 Channel Four in Los Angeles. There you go. Well, so you you broke into voice over, and that's what you did.   Bill Ratner ** 43:38 That's what I did, darn it, I ain't stopping now, there's a wonderful old actor named Bill Irwin. There two Bill Irwin's one is a younger actor in his 50s or 60s, a brilliant actor from Broadway to film and TV. There's an older William Irwin. They also named Bill Irwin, who's probably in his 90s now. And I went to a premiere of a film, and he was always showing up in these films as The senile stock broker who answers the phone upside down, or the senile board member who always asks inappropriate questions. And I went up to him and I said, you know, I see you in everything, man. I'm 85 years old. Some friends and associates of mine tell me I should slow down. I only got cast in movies and TV when I was 65 I ain't slowing down. If I tried to slow down at 85 I'd have to stop That's my philosophy. My hero is the great Don Pardo, the late great   Michael Hingson ** 44:42 for Saturday Night Live and Jeopardy   Bill Ratner ** 44:45 lives starring Bill Murray, Gilder Radner, and   Michael Hingson ** 44:49 he died for Jeopardy before that,   Bill Ratner ** 44:52 yeah, died at 92 with I picture him, whether it probably not, with a microphone and. His hand in his in his soundproof booth, in his in his garage, and I believe he lived in Arizona, although the show was aired and taped in New York, New York, right where he worked for for decades as a successful announcer. So that's the story.   Michael Hingson ** 45:16 Michael. Well, you know, I miss, very frankly, some of the the the days of radio back in the 60s and 70s and so on. We had, in LA what you mentioned, Dick Whittington, Dick whittinghill on kmpc, Gary Owens, you know, so many people who were such wonderful announcers and doing some wonderful things, and radio just isn't the same anymore. It's gone. It's   Bill Ratner ** 45:47 gone to Tiktok and YouTube. And the truth is, I'm not gonna whine about Tiktok or YouTube, because some of the most creative moments on camera are being done on Tiktok and YouTube by young quote influencers who hire themselves out to advertisers, everything from lipstick. You know,   Speaker 1 ** 46:09 when I went to a party last night was just wild and but this makeup look, watch me apply this lip remover and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, no, I have no lip.   Bill Ratner ** 46:20 You know, these are the people with the voices. These are the new voices. And then, of course, the faces. And so I would really advise before, before people who, in fact, use the internet. If you use the internet, you can't complain if you use the internet, if you go to Facebook or Instagram, or you get collect your email or Google, this or that, which most of us do, it's handy. You can't complain about tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. You can't complain about tick tock or YouTube, because it's what the younger generation is using, and it's what the younger generation advertisers and advertising executives and creators and musicians and actors are using to parade before us, as Gary Owens did, as Marlon Brando did, as Sarah Bernhardt did in the 19 so as all as you do, Michael, you're a parader. You're the head of the parade. You've been in on your own float for years. I read your your bio. I don't even know why you want to waste a minute talking to me for goodness sakes.   Michael Hingson ** 47:26 You know, the one thing about podcasts that I like over radio, and I did radio at kuci for seven years when I was in school, what I really like about podcasts is they're not and this is also would be true for Tiktok and YouTube. Primarily Tiktok, I would would say it isn't as structured. So if we don't finish in 60 minutes, and we finish in 61 minutes, no one's gonna shoot us.   Bill Ratner ** 47:53 Well, I beg to differ with you. Now. I'm gonna start a fight with you. Michael, yeah, we need conflict in this script. Is that it The Tick Tock is very structured. Six. No,   Michael Hingson ** 48:03 no, I understand that. I'm talking about podcasts,   Bill Ratner ** 48:07 though, but there's a problem. We gotta Tone It Up. We gotta pick it up. We gotta there's a lot of and I listen to what are otherwise really bright, wonderful personalities on screen, celebrities who have podcasts and the car sucks, and then I had meatballs for dinner, haha. And you know what my wife said? Why? You know? And there's just too much of that. And,   Michael Hingson ** 48:32 oh, I understand, yeah. I mean, it's like, like anything, but I'm just saying that's one of the reasons I love podcasting. So it's my way of continuing what I used to do in radio and having a lot of fun doing it   Bill Ratner ** 48:43 all right, let me ask you. Let me ask you a technical and editorial question. Let me ask you an artistic question. An artist, can you edit this podcast? Yeah. Are you? Do you plan to Nope.   Michael Hingson ** 48:56 I think conversations are conversations, but there is a but, I mean,   Bill Ratner ** 49:01 there have been starts and stops and I answer a question, and there's a long pause, and then, yeah, we can do you edit that stuff   Michael Hingson ** 49:08 out. We do, we do, edit some of that out. And I have somebody that that that does a lot of it, because I'm doing more podcasts, and also I travel and speak, but I can edit. There's a program called Reaper, which is really a very sophisticated   Bill Ratner ** 49:26 close up spaces. You   Michael Hingson ** 49:28 can close up spaces with it, yes, but the neat thing about Reaper is that somebody has written scripts to make it incredibly accessible for blind people using screen readers.   Bill Ratner ** 49:40 What does it do? What does it do? Give me the elevator pitch.   Michael Hingson ** 49:46 You've seen some of the the programs that people use, like computer vision and other things to do editing of videos and so on. Yeah.   Bill Ratner ** 49:55 Yeah. Even Apple. Apple edit. What is it called? Apple? Garage Band. No, that's audio. What's that   Michael Hingson ** 50:03 audio? Oh,   Bill Ratner ** 50:06 quick time is quick   Michael Hingson ** 50:07 time. But whether it's video or audio, the point is that Reaper allows me to do all of that. I can edit audio. I can insert, I can remove pauses. I can do anything with Reaper that anyone else can do editing audio, because it's been made completely accessible.   Bill Ratner ** 50:27 That's great. That's good. That's nice. Oh, it is. It's cool.   Michael Hingson ** 50:31 So so if I want, I can edit this and just have my questions and then silence when you're talking.   Bill Ratner ** 50:38 That might be best. Ladies and gentlemen, here's Bill Ratner,   Michael Hingson ** 50:46 yep, exactly, exactly. Now you have won the moth stories. Slam, what? Tell me about my story. Slam, you've won it nine times.   Bill Ratner ** 51:00 The Moth was started by a writer, a novelist who had lived in the South and moved to New York City, successful novelist named George Dawes green. And the inception of the moth, which many people listening are familiar with from the Moth Radio Hour. It was, I believe, either late 90s or early 2000s when he'd been in New York for a while and was was publishing as a fiction writer, and threw a party, and decided, instead of going to one of these dumb, boring parties or the same drinks being served and same cigarettes being smoked out in the veranda and the same orders. I'm going to ask people to bring a five minute story, a personal story, nature, a true story. You don't have to have one to get into the party, but I encourage you to. And so you know, the 3040, 50 people showed up, many of whom had stories, and they had a few drinks, and they had hors d'oeuvres. And then he said, Okay, ladies and gentlemen, take your seats. It's time for and then I picked names out of a hat, and person after person after person stood up in a very unusual setting, which was almost never done at parties. You How often do you see that happen? Suddenly, the room falls silent, and someone with permission being having been asked by the host to tell a personal story, some funny, some tragic, some complex, some embarrassing, some racy, some wild, some action filled. And afterward, the feedback he got from his friends was, this is the most amazing experience I've ever had in my life. And someone said, you need to do this. And he said, Well, you people left a lot of cigarette butts and beer cans around my apartment. And they said, well, let's do it at a coffee shop. Let's do it at a church basement. So slowly but surely, the moth storytelling, story slams, which were designed after the old poetry slams in the 50s and 60s, where they were judged contests like, like a dance contest. Everybody's familiar with dance contests? Well, there were, then came poetry contests with people singing and, you know, and singing and really energetically, really reading. There then came storytelling contests with people standing on a stage before a silent audience, telling a hopefully interesting, riveting story, beginning middle, end in five minutes. And so a coffee house was found. A monthly calendar was set up. Then came the internet. Then it was so popular standing room only that they had to open yet another and another, and today, some 20 years later, 20 some years later, from Austin, Texas to San Francisco, California to Minneapolis, Minnesota to New York City to Los Angeles. There are moth story slams available on online for you to schedule yourself to go live and in person at the moth.org as in the moth with wings. Friend of mine, I was in New York. He said, You can't believe it. This writer guy, a writer friend of mine who I had read, kind of an avant garde, strange, funny writer was was hosting something called the moth in New York, and we were texting each other. He said, Well, I want to go. The theme was show business. I was going to talk to my Uncle Bobby, who was the bell boy. And I Love Lucy. I'll tell a story. And I texted him that day. He said, Oh man, I'm so sorry. I had the day wrong. It's next week. Next week, I'm going to be back home. And so he said, Well, I think there's a moth in Los Angeles. So about 15 years ago, I searched it down and what? Went to a small Korean barbecue that had a tiny little stage that originally was for Korean musicians, and it was now being used for everything from stand up comedy to evenings of rock and roll to now moth storytelling once a month. And I think the theme was first time. And so I got up and told a silly story and didn't win first prize. They have judges that volunteer judges a table of three judges scoring, you like, at a swim meet or a track beat or, you know, and our gymnastics meet. So this is all sort of familiar territory for everybody, except it's storytelling and not high jumping or pull ups. And I kept going back. I was addicted to it. I would write a story and I'd memorize it, and I'd show up and try to make it four minutes and 50 seconds and try to make it sound like I was really telling a story and not reading from a script. And wish I wasn't, because I would throw the script away, and I knew the stories well enough. And then they created a radio show. And then I began to win slams and compete in the grand slams. And then I started submitting these 750 word, you know, two and a half page stories. Literary magazines got a few published and found a whole new way to spend my time and not make much   Michael Hingson ** 56:25 money. Then you went into poetry.   Bill Ratner ** 56:29 Then I got so bored with my prose writing that I took a poetry course from a wonderful guy in LA called Jack grapes, who had been an actor and a football player and come to Hollywood and did some TV, episodics and and some some episodic TV, and taught poetry. It was a poet in the schools, and I took his class of adults and got a poem published. And thought, wait a minute, these aren't even 750 words. They're like 75 words. I mean, you could write a 10,000 word poem if you want, but some people have, yeah, and it was complex, and there was so much to read and so much to learn and so much that was interesting and odd. And a daughter of a friend of mine is a poet, said, Mommy, are you going to read me one of those little word movies before I go to sleep?   Michael Hingson ** 57:23 A little word movie, word movie out of the   Bill Ratner ** 57:27 mouths of babes. Yeah, and so, so and I perform. You know, last night, I was in Orange County at a organization called ugly mug Cafe, and a bunch of us poets read from an anthology that was published, and we sold our books, and heard other young poets who were absolutely marvelous and and it's, you know, it's not for everybody, but it's one of the things I do.   Michael Hingson ** 57:54 Well, you sent me pictures of book covers, so they're going to be in the show notes. And I hope people will will go out and get them   Bill Ratner ** 58:01 cool. One of the one of the things that I did with poetry, in addition to wanting to get published and wanting to read before people, is wanting to see if there is a way. Because poetry was, was very satisfying, emotionally to me, intellectually very challenging and satisfying at times. And emotionally challenging and very satisfying at times, writing about things personal, writing about nature, writing about friends, writing about stories that I received some training from the National Association for poetry therapy. Poetry therapy is being used like art therapy, right? And have conducted some sessions and and participated in many and ended up working with eighth graders of kids who had lost someone to death in the past year of their lives. This is before covid in the public schools in Los Angeles. And so there's a lot of that kind of work that is being done by constable people, by writers, by poets, by playwrights,   Michael Hingson ** 59:09 and you became a grief counselor,   Bill Ratner ** 59:13 yes, and don't do that full time, because I do voiceovers full time, right? Write poetry and a grand. Am an active grandparent, but I do the occasional poetry session around around grief poetry.   Michael Hingson ** 59:31 So you're a grandparent, so you've had kids and all that. Yes, sir, well, that's is your wife still with us? Yes?   Bill Ratner ** 59:40 Oh, great, yeah, she's an artist and an art educator. Well, that   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 so the two of you can criticize each other's works, then, just   Bill Ratner ** 59:52 saying, we're actually pretty kind to each other. I Yeah, we have a lot of we have a lot of outside criticism. Them. So, yeah, you don't need to do it internally. We don't rely on it. What do you think of this although, although, more than occasionally, each of us will say, What do you think of this poem, honey? Or what do you think of this painting, honey? And my the favorite, favorite thing that my wife says that always thrills me and makes me very happy to be with her is, I'll come down and she's beginning a new work of a new piece of art for an exhibition somewhere. I'll say, what? Tell me about what's, what's going on with that, and she'll go, you know, I have no idea, but it'll tell me what to do.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:33 Yeah, it's, it's like a lot of authors talk about the fact that their characters write the stories right, which, which makes a lot of sense. So with all that you've done, are you writing a memoir? By any chance, I   Bill Ratner ** 1:00:46 am writing a memoir, and writing has been interesting. I've been doing it for many years. I got it was my graduate thesis from University of California Riverside Palm Desert.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:57 My wife was a UC Riverside graduate. Oh, hi. Well, they   Bill Ratner ** 1:01:01 have a low residency program where you go for 10 days in January, 10 days in June. The rest of it's online, which a lot of universities are doing, low residency programs for people who work and I got an MFA in creative writing nonfiction, had a book called parenting for the digital age, the truth about media's effect on children. And was halfway through it, the publisher liked it, but they said you got to double the length. So I went back to school to try to figure out how to double the length. And was was able to do it, and decided to move on to personal memoir and personal storytelling, such as goes on at the moth but a little more personal than that. Some of the material that I was reading in the memoir section of a bookstore was very, very personal and was very helpful to read about people who've gone through particular issues in their childhood. Mine not being physical abuse or sexual abuse, mine being death and loss, which is different. And so that became a focus of my graduate thesis, and many people were urging me to write a memoir. Someone said, you need to do a one man show. So I entered the Hollywood fringe and did a one man show and got good reviews and had a good time and did another one man show the next year and and so on. So But writing memoir as anybody knows, and they're probably listeners who are either taking memoir courses online or who may be actively writing memoirs or short memoir pieces, as everybody knows it, can put you through moods from absolutely ecstatic, oh my gosh, I got this done. I got this story told, and someone liked it, to oh my gosh, I'm so depressed I don't understand why. Oh, wait a minute, I was writing about such and such today. Yeah. So that's the challenge for the memoir is for the personal storyteller, it's also, you know, and it's more of a challenge than it is for the reader, unless it's bad writing and the reader can't stand that. For me as a reader, I'm fascinated by people's difficult stories, if they're well   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:24 told well, I know that when in 2002 I was advised to write a book about the World Trade Center experiences and all, and it took eight years to kind of pull it all together. And then I met a woman who actually I collaborated with, Susie Florey, and we wrote thunder dog. And her agent became my agent, who loved the proposal that we sent and actually got a contract within a week. So thunder dog came out in 2011 was a New York Times bestseller, and very blessed by that, and we're working toward the day that it will become a movie still, but it'll happen. And then I wrote a children's version of it, well, not a children's version of the book, but a children's book about me growing up in Roselle, growing up the guide dog who was with me in the World Trade Center, and that's been on Amazon. We self published it. Then last year, we published a new book called Live like a guide dog, which is all about controlling fear and teaching people lessons that I learned prior to September 11. That helped me focus and remain calm.   Bill Ratner ** 1:04:23 What happened to you on September 11,   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:27 I was in the World Trade Center. I worked on the 78th floor of Tower One.   Bill Ratner ** 1:04:32 And what happened? I mean, what happened to you?   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36 Um, nothing that day. I mean, well, I got out. How did you get out? Down the stairs? That was the only way to go. So, so the real story is not doing it, but why it worked. And the real issue is that I spent a lot of time when I first went into the World Trade Center, learning all I could about what to do in an emergency, talking to police, port authorities. Security people, emergency preparedness people, and also just walking around the world trade center and learning the whole place, because I ran an office for a company, and I wasn't going to rely on someone else to, like, lead me around if we're going to go to lunch somewhere and take people out before we negotiated contracts. So I needed to know all of that, and I learned all I could, also realizing that if there ever was an emergency, I might be the only one in the office, or we might be in an area where people couldn't read the signs to know what to do anyway. And so I had to take the responsibility of learning all that, which I did. And then when the planes hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building, we get we had some guests in the office. Got them out, and then another colleague, who was in from our corporate office, and I and my guide dog, Roselle, went to the stairs, and we started down. And   Bill Ratner ** 1:05:54 so, so what floor did the plane strike?   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:58 It struck and the NOR and the North Tower, between floors 93 and 99 so I just say 96 okay, and you were 20 floors down, 78 floors 78 so we were 18 floors below, and   Bill Ratner ** 1:06:09 at the moment of impact, what did you think?   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:13 Had no idea we heard a muffled kind of explosion, because the plane hit on the other side of the building, 18 floors above us. There was no way to know what was going on. Did you feel? Did you feel? Oh, the building literally tipped, probably about 20 feet. It kept tipping. And then we actually said goodbye to each other, and then the building came back upright. And then we went,   Bill Ratner ** 1:06:34 really you so you thought you were going to die?   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:38 David, my colleague who was with me, as I said, he was from our California office, and he was there to help with some seminars we were going to be doing. We actually were saying goodbye to each other because we thought we were about to take a 78 floor plunge to the street, when the building stopped tipping and it came back. Designed to do that by the architect. It was designed to do that, which is the point, the point.   Bill Ratner ** 1:07:02 Goodness, gracious. And then did you know how to get to the stairway?   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:04 Oh, absolutely. And did you do it with your friend? Yeah, the first thing we did, the first thing we did is I got him to get we had some guests, and I said, get him to the stairs. Don't let him take the elevators, because I knew he had seen fire above us, but that's all we knew. And but I said, don't take the elevators. Don't let them take elevators. Get them to the stairs and then come back and we'll leave. So he did all that, and then he came back, and we went to the stairs and started down.   Bill Ratner ** 1:07:33 Wow. Could you smell anything?   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:36 We smelled burning jet fuel fumes on the way down. And that's how we figured out an airplane must have hit the building, but we had no idea what happened. We didn't know what happened until the until both towers had collapsed, and I actually talked to my wife, and she's the one who told us how to aircraft have been crashed into the towers, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth, at that time, was still missing over Pennsylvania. Wow. So you'll have to go pick up a copy of thunder dog. Goodness. Good. Thunder dog. The name of the book is Thunder dog, and the book I wrote last year is called Live like a guide dog. It's le

Dave Rubin of "The Rubin Report" talks about "Real Time with Bill Maher" guest and former Biden administration official Kate Bedingfield getting into a tense exchange with Bill Maher over Zohran Mamdani's unwillingness to criticize Uganda for its policy of giving to death penalty to people for being gay; Scott Jennings getting CNN's Abby Phillip to defend Zohran Mamdani's making muslim New Yorkers out to be the real victims of the 9/11 terror attacks on the World Trade Center; Gavin Newsom trying to convince the "All the Smoke Podcast" hosts think that he grew up poor by hiding his father's deep connections to Gordan Getty and the Getty family fortune; Arnold Schwarzenegger calling out Gavin Newsom's lies to CNN's Jake Tapper about Newsom's plan to make gerrymandering only temporary; Donald Trump's hilarious attack on the United Nations for being an alleged proponent of peace while he presided over the signing of a peace treaty between Thailand and Cambodia; new Japanese Prime Minister Sanae Takaichi announcing her plans to deal directly with Japan's birth rate problem and avoid resorting to immigration to solve labor shortages; and much more. Today's Sponsors: Crypto.com - Trump Media just signed a massive $6.4 billion deal with Yorkville Acquisition Corp. and Crypto.com. This new company will be the largest publicly traded CRO holder out there. For more information, visit Yorkville Corporation's Public filings: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1849635/000114036125032615/ef20054552_ex99-2.htm Go to https://crypto.com Perplexity AI - Use the Comet web browser, the new AI-web browser from Perplexity, that will completely change the way you are able to interact with your browser. Download Perplexity's new AI-web browser, Comet, by heading to: https://pplx.ai/RUBIN Plus, right now when you download Comet - you get a month of Rumble Premium for free! CBDistillery.com- Struggling with poor sleep or aches and pains? Take the advice of our over 2 million satisfied customers. Use CBD after physical activity for reductions in stress and pain. Use code RUBIN to save up to 25% off. Go to: http://CBDistillery.com and enter PROMO CODE: RUBIN

On Tuesday's Mark Levin Show, Phase II of the Gaza peace plan is the most challenging due to Hamas, which refuses to disarm or leave Gaza, abuses Palestinians, murders IDF soldiers, and repeatedly violates the ceasefire. Despite warnings from President Trump of potential obliteration, Hamas persists. Qatar's emir, a major Hamas funder and host to its leaders, accuses Israel of genocide and ceasefire breaches while calling for a Palestinian state. Turkey's Erdogan similarly harbors Hamas leaders, threatens Israel, and takes provocative actions. The ceasefire must be enforced urgently to stop ongoing murders and torture, and support should be given to Trump if he orders military action against Hamas. Also, Democrats are keeping the government shutdown by continuing to block a non-controversial continuing resolution to try and blackmail Republicans to approve $1.5 trillion in additional spending. This will generate massive debt—similar to the phony Inflation Reduction Act—leading to inflation, higher prices for gasoline, food, mortgages, and credit cards, ultimately harming average citizens and future generations. Later, Zohran Mandami must be defeated in New York's upcoming mayoral race. He dodges questions on Hamas support; campaigns with Imam Siraj Wahaj, who served as a character witness for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind and called for jihad. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No Kings protests took place this weekend as leftist lunatics across the country took to the streets to protest President Trump, revealing just how vile and angry they are. The FBI recently discovered a hidden hunting stand with direct sight line into President Trump's Air Force One exit area at the Palm Beach International Airport. Kamala Harris has a meltdown on stage after being heckled by someone in the crowd at her book promotion event. NYC mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani is photographed smiling with a 1993 World Trade Center bombing conspirator and terrorist apologist. Adam Johnson and Matthew Marsden join the show.   ► Subscribe to “Sara Gonzales Unfiltered”! https://www.youtube.com/@SaraGonzalesUnfiltered?sub_confirmation=1    Today's Sponsors:   ► Jase Medical  Enter promo code SARA at checkout on https://www.jase.com for a discount on your order.   ► Patriot Mobile  Call 972-PATRIOT today, or go to https://www.patriotmobile.com/partners/sara and use promo code SARA for a FREE month of service.   ► PreBorn  Donate securely at https://www.preborn.com/sara or dial #250, keyword “BABY.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donate (no account necessary) | Subscribe (account required) Join Bryan Dean Wright, former CIA Operations Officer, as he dives into today's top stories shaping America and the world. In this Monday Headline Brief of The Wright Report, Bryan covers the “No Kings” protests against President Trump, rising ties between Marxists and Islamists in U.S. politics, the arrest of a Hamas-linked illegal in Louisiana, new calls for deportations of radicalized citizens, and global updates from Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, China, and Australia.   “No Kings” Protests Fall Flat: Millions were expected at anti-Trump demonstrations over the weekend, but turnout reached only one to five percent of Kamala Harris voters. Democrats Abroad rebranded their rallies as “No Tyrants” to avoid offending actual monarchs in Commonwealth nations. Bryan says, “Democrats want no kings — except the real ones.”   Radical Islamist Runs for NYC Mayor: Ugandan-born Marxist Zohran Mamdani appeared at protests alongside Imam Siraj Wahhaj, a former unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Wahhaj has preached jihad abroad and called for an Islamic nation in America through political activism. Bryan cites the UAE's foreign minister warning that “Western naïveté about radical Islam will destroy us.”   Hamas Terrorist Arrested in Louisiana: An illegal immigrant from Gaza, Mahmoud al-Muhtadi, who joined the October 7th Hamas attacks, was living in the U.S. as a Biden-approved resident. ICE also arrested a Texas man offering bounties to kill agents, and a Michigan mayor defended naming a street after a Hamas sympathizer. Bryan warns, “These are the people we've let in — and they want to destroy this country.”   DHS Embraces “Re-Migration” Policy: The Department of Homeland Security announced plans to strip citizenship from naturalized extremists, arguing that fraudulent applications and post-naturalization crimes justify “de-naturalization and return.” Critics call it racist; Bryan calls it overdue.   Trump's Expanding War on Narco-Terror: The U.S. Navy sank another cartel vessel near Venezuela, killing three Marxist rebels linked to Colombia's ELN. Colombian President Gustavo Petro — himself a former terrorist — protested the strike, but Trump said Petro “doesn't want to mess with the United States.” Senator Rand Paul demanded congressional oversight, sparking debate over executive war powers.   China's Internal Purge and the Mineral Wars: President Xi Jinping removed nine generals in the largest purge since Mao, signaling espionage and internal fractures. Meanwhile, Trump meets Australia's Prime Minister Albanese at the White House today to announce joint investments in rare earth minerals and new Pacific supply chains.   "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." - John 8:32     Keywords: No Kings protest turnout, Zohran Mamdani Imam Siraj Wahhaj jihad, Hamas terrorist Louisiana arrest, DHS remigration denaturalization policy, Trump narco-terror Venezuela Colombia ELN, Rand Paul war powers debate, Xi Jinping purge PLA generals, Trump Australia rare earth partnership

Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic candidate for the New York City mayoral race, posed for a picture with Islamist imam Siraj Wahhaj, one of the unindicted conspirators behind the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. Will he be able to overcome the backlash from the radical imam controversy? The Sekulow team discusses the mayoral election in NYC, the ACLJ's legal work – and much more.

Dana recaps the craziest moments from the “No Kings” rallies over the weekend including multiple death threats from extreme leftists. Zohran Mamdani posts a photo posing with the unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. WNBA's Phoenix Mercury team invited a 7-year-old “genderless child” which appears to be a boy in makeup dressed as a little girl on the court to dance and perform during the halftime show. Thieves steal expensive jewels from The Louvre museum in broad daylight. Was this an inside job? Israel and Hamas clash over the weekend following the peace deal being signed. Amazon Web Services crashes, causing outages on hundreds of websites. Dana doesn't like how everything online relies on Amazon. Democrat infighting continues as Karine Jean-Pierre launches her book tour of her time in The White House. Stephen Yates from Heritage joins us to discuss Trump's meeting with Australia, Trump's planned visit to China, and more. A liberal dude tells Winsome Sears to “go back to Haiti” at a football game even though she was born in Jamaica.Thank you for supporting our sponsors that make The Dana Show possible…CovePurehttps:/CovePure.com/DanaTake back control of your family's health with CovePure, the advanced water filtration system designed for pure, great-tasting water. Get $200 off. Webroothttps://Webroot.com/DanaChange your October from cyber-scary to cyber-secure with 60% off Webroot Total Protection.AmmoSquaredhttps://AmmoSquared.comDon't get caught without ammo and be sure to tell them you heard about Ammo Squared on this show. ChapterFor free and unbiased Medicare help from my partners Chapter, dial #250 and say keyword “My Medicare”Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand-alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently, we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.Keltechttps://KelTecWeapons.comKelTec builds every KS7 GEN2 right here in the USA with American materials and workers—upgrade your home defense today. All Family Pharmacyhttps://AllFamilyPharmacy.com/Dana Don't wait until flu season knocks at your door. Use code DANA10 at checkout to save 10%. Relief Factorhttps://ReliefFactor.com OR CALL 1-800-4-RELIEFTurn the clock back on pain with Relief Factor. Get their 3-week Relief Factor Quick Start for only $19.95 today! Byrnahttps://Byrna.com/DanaGet your hands on the new compact Byrna CL. Visit Byrna.com/Dana to receive 10% off Patriot Mobilehttps://PatriotMobile.com/DanaDana's personal cell phone provider is Patriot Mobile. Get a FREE MONTH of service code DANAHumanNhttps://HumanN.comStart supporting your cardiovascular health with SuperBeets, now available at your local Walmart.

5. Alex Station, the Virtual War on Al-Qaeda, and the Struggle for Presidential Attention Liza Mundy Book: The Sisterhood: The Secret History of Women at the CIA Following the 1993 World Trade Center attack and the fatal shooting of two CIA officers, the Counterterrorism Center created "Alec Station" (named after a CIA officer's son). Alec Station was a "virtual station" created during a period of CIA resource loss ("peace dividend"). It represented a novel collaboration of analysts and clandestine operatives working in the headquarters basement to track and understand Osama bin Laden's network. Women analysts, including Cindy Storer and Barbara Sude, developed new skills in "manhunting" and targeting, sometimes directing field operatives. Cindy Storer recognized that al-Qaeda was a meticulous worldwide organization, not a mere confederation. However, the group's key struggle was gaining traction: they faced resistance from senior leaders (like those on the Soviet desk who feared losing funding) and could not consistently persuade editors to include their warnings about bin Laden in the President's Daily Brief (PDB).

Episode 2709 - Vinnie Tortorich and Anna Vocino discuss addiction and taking things too far in certain diets, and answer some common NSNG® questions. https://vinnietortorich.com/2025/10/taking-it-too-far-episode-2709 PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS YOU CAN WATCH ALL THE PODCAST EPISODES ON YOUTUBE - Taking It Too Far This episode was recorded on 9/11, the 24th anniversary of the attack on the World Trade Center. (2:00) It's hard to believe how much time has gone by. Setting quantifiable goals is a huge help. It allows you to reassess as you progress. (4:00) The better bet is to challenge yourself to grow and progress. NSNG® 101 Part 2, but first, a little bit about the Charlie Sheen documentary, currently on Netflix, called aka Charlie Sheen. (6:30) Addiction is a constant challenge for some people. Medically guided psychedelics are an emerging modality for people to use for various issues. (19:00) Anna shares an article about a man who had cholesterol leaking out of his skin. (26:00) A man is following a carnivore diet and consuming extremely high amounts of fat—pounds of fat every day. He developed xanthelasma, a condition where cholesterol accumulates and develops yellow growths under the skin. Vinnie feels the article is a hit piece. The authors took an anomaly and made it a “hit piece." NSNG® 101: Some Common Questions They discuss not needing to track macros. (35:00) Lose the obsession with food! Tracking can be beneficial as a stopgap measure to assess where you're at. (39:00) White potatoes vs. sweet potatoes. (42:00) The glycemic index is a factor. If you are going to enjoy a small portion of sweet potato, boiling it is best. Nuts and nut butters are good, but can be overdone, so be careful. (49:00) In terms of fat and carb content, pili nuts and macadamia nuts are the best. Pecans and walnuts are next, but get plain raw ones, as roasted ones are often in seed oils. (54:00) Almonds are good, but cashews and pistachios are higher in carbs. You'll be able to join the NSNG® VIP group when it reopens soon! If you are interested in the NSNG® VIP group, register here! More News If you are interested in the NSNG® VIP group, register here! Don't forget to check out Serena Scott Thomas on Days of Our Lives on the Peacock channel.  “Dirty Keto” is available on Amazon! You can purchase or rent it . Make sure you watch, rate, and review it! Eat Happy Italian, Anna's next cookbook, is available!  You can go to You can order it from . Anna's recipes are in her cookbooks, website, and Substack–they will spice up your day! There's a new NSNG® Foods promo code you can use! The promo code ONLY works on the NSNG® Foods website, NOT on Amazon. https://nsngfoods.com/   PURCHASE  DIRTY KETO (2024) The documentary launched in August 2024! Order it TODAY! This is Vinnie's fourth documentary in just over five years. Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: Then, please share my fact-based, health-focused documentary series with your friends and family. Additionally, the more views, the better it ranks, so please watch it again with a new friend! REVIEWS: Please submit your REVIEW after you watch my films. Your positive REVIEW does matter! PURCHASE BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE (2022) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: REVIEWS: Please submit your REVIEW after you watch my films. Your positive REVIEW does matter! FAT: A DOCUMENTARY 2 (2021) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: FAT: A DOCUMENTARY (2019) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere:

During the violent Charlottesville protests of 2017, journalist and author P.E. Moskowitz was only a few feet away when Heather Heyer was killed by an attacking motorist. 16 years earlier, P.E. was in middle school Spanish class a couple blocks from the World Trade Center during the 9/11 attacks. The trauma contributed to panic attacks and, finally, a mental breakdown. As they got their life back together, P.E. began to question a lot of conventional wisdom. Were they mentally ill to have such a breakdown or were they responding appropriately to enormous trauma in a difficult world? Are we looking at potential cures when we should be looking at coping or better yet coming up with ways to stop the horrors from ever taking place? They also questioned the role of drugs in mental health treatment. In the book Breaking Awake: A Reporter's Search for a New Life, and a New World, Through Drugs and in this intriguing interview, P.E. explains how they look at drugs - both the prescription and street varieties - as tools that can be used positively or negatively, to help or harm. And that patients are owed a lot more options than a shortcut to SSRIs or Adderall in their quest to feel better.Thank you to all our listeners who support the show as monthly members of Maximum Fun.Check out our I'm Glad You're Here and Depresh Mode merchandise at the brand new merch website MaxFunStore.com!Hey, remember, you're part of Depresh Mode and we want to hear what you want to hear about. What guests and issues would you like to have covered in a future episode? Write us at depreshmode@maximumfun.org.Depresh Mode is on BlueSky, Instagram, Substack, and you can join our Preshies Facebook group. Help is available right away.The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988 or 1-800-273-8255, 1-800-273-TALKCrisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741.International suicide hotline numbers available here: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines