Podcasts about Chinatown

On today's episode of Eat. Talk. Repeat.

Residents of San Francisco's Chinatown are grappling with competing concerns. Then, a Marriage and family therapist helps us get ahead of Valentine's Day with some relationship advice. And, the magic of a classic love song with an Uncuffed My Mix Tape. Plus, a (love) poem. 

Zhe Wu is a reporter with the San Francisco Public Press, who covers Chinatown. Here, Zhe explains what's pressing most on the minds of SF Chinatown residents as they get ready for one of their biggest holidays.

In this episode, Parker Mah from the Jia Foundation joins us to unpack the often untold stories behind Montreal's historic Chinatown. Moving beyond what we see on the surface, Parker shares the multigenerational histories that have shaped the neighbourhood – stories of migration, resilience, community-building, and cultural continuity. We explore the ongoing fight to preserve Chinatown in the face of development pressures, and why protecting this neighbourhood is about far more than architecture. It's about memory, belonging, and safeguarding a living history.*This month, we will be publishing an episode in English.

Edmonton's McCauley neighbourhood has a PR problem. The inner city community is home to Commonwealth Stadium, the Italian Centre and Chinatown. But it also has a disproportionate number of resources for the homeless community. But residents believe in their neighbourhood. Perhaps none more than Teresa Spinelli. Host Clare Bonnyman joins Spinelli for a talk about the work the community is doing, to make McCauley better and the lessons the rest of the city can learn from them.

Dimestore Radio Theater #155 WFMU Playlist & Interactive Live Chat (The Digital Salon) A simple effort to test his sikills, and renew his Private Eye License, causes Richard Diamond get involved in a murder case that happens at the police station, DURING a test.  Meanwhile, we spend a fair amount of time in Cairo’s Chinatown, … Continue reading Dimestore Radio Theater #155

As we head into spring, Trapped History takes a brisk wintery walk through the streets of London's Docklands to seek out the Limehouse Chinatown of the 1880s.Jack the Ripper is striking fear into the heart of the East End, the Bryant & May matchgirls are on strike and the magnificent Ching Hook is knocking them dead at the Sebright Music Hall. And Pearl Fitzgerald, a young woman with a Chinese mother and an Irish father, is trying to secure her inheritance.But Pearl isn't real. She is a fiction, the main character in novelist Fiona Keating's bodice-ripping Smoke & Silk. Everything else, though, is true – and so Fiona is taking us and you on a journey through Pearl's world to re-discover London's first Chinatown. Here you will find laundries and opium, poverty and anger – but above all else a small Chinese community, hanging on by its fingernails in the onslaught of the tabloid ‘yellow peril' scare.It's bracing, it's exciting and it might help change your mind about Sherlock Holmes.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Do you have a favorite Super Bowl commercial? Andy loves “whazzuuup!” plus any Budweiser commercial. Is every man you know a low-T soy boy? There may be a reason for that — it’s all thanks to the testosterone influencer. Andy discusses bias in the media, particularly with outlets like the LA Times. Andy took part in a KTLA Super Bowl-themed relay race earlier today, and it did not go well for our resident soy boy. Here are some of the 101 best movies set in LA according to the list: 101. Babylon 50. To Live and Die in LA 34. A Star is Born 35. La La Land 32. Training Day 16. The Player 12. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 52. Rebel Without a Cause 38. Licorice Pizza 33. Drive. Heat is at No. 14, while Once Upon a Time in Hollywood nearly cracks the top 10. Double Indemnity is No. 9 Singing in the Rain at No. 8. Boogie Nights is in the top 10 as well! No. 3 is Sunset Boulevard, and No. 2 is Mulholland Drive. So, what’s No. 1? From 1974, it’s Chinatown.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On today's episode of Eat. Talk. Repeat.

The final film in director Roger Corman's Edgar Allan Poe cycle, The Tomb of Ligeia marked the second collaboration for Corman and screenwriter Robert Towne.  Towne would go on to be one of the hardest working and respected writers and script doctors in Hollywood (The Last Detail, Shampoo, Mission: Impossible, The Firm, Personal Best and Tequila Sunrise) and collect an Academy Award for writing Chinatown.  Towne is quoted, however, as saying that his adaptation for The Tomb of Ligeia was the hardest he'd ever worked on.   Dan and Vicky discuss the horror film along with plenty of recently seen like films Marty Supreme, Rosemead, Dead Man's Wife, The Lost Bus, Griffin in Summer, Twinless, Is This Thing On?, and TV series Heated Rivalry and Kaos. Our socials:  hotdatepod.com FB:  Hot Date Podcast X: @HotDate726 Insta:  hotdatepod

We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about! FBI offers reward for information about gunman charged in slayings of five men in Chinatown in 1991Guest: Emily Sweeney – Boston Globe Cold Case Files Reporter The Price is Right Live™, an interactive stage show coming to the Chevalier Theatre in Medford on May 8th. “Come on Down” and be a part of this family-friendly stage show!Guest: Todd Newton – Game Show Host, Author & Entertainment Reporter The Patriots playing in the Super Bowl this weekend against the Seattle Seahawks. Chad Finn live from San Francisco will discuss!Guest: Chad Finn – Boston Globe Sports Reporter Zoo New England is giving New Englanders a reason to brave the cold with the return of Orchid Adventure at Franklin Park Zoo – a warm, tropical experience that feels like a mini vacation without ever leaving Boston!Guest: Josh Meyer - Zoo New England Curator of Horticulture & Sustainability See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Send us a textJustin Warfield stops by the show to discuss, Deathrock Devotionals Vol II, inner peace, change in perspective and more. *****After a year of steady build-up, bold reinvention, and dancefloor resurrection, WARFIELD - the darkwave/deathrock project helmed by She Wants Revenge lyricist and frontman Justin Warfield - arrives at a pivotal moment. Today marks the release of Deathrock Devotionals Vol. II (out via Black Heathers/Cleopatra Records), the latest installment in Justin's ongoing love letter to the early Los Angeles deathrock and post-punk scenes that shaped him. Just two weeks later, on November 28, the saga culminates with the release of the full-length album Deathrock Devotionals - an all-encompassing statement piece that merges narrative depth, goth energy, and propulsive hooks into one darkly luminous body of work.“Like its predecessor, Vol. II is a continuation, and remembrance of, the early years of goth and deathrock in Los Angeles,” Justin explains. “I'm taking inspiration from 45 Grave, Super Heroines, Rozz Williams, Patrick Mata - all those people who pioneered this thing that not only lives on, but is thriving so many years later it. I'm just continuing that spirit and making something new, fun, full of energy, and from my point of view.” He continues, “In many ways this project, this band, and this record specifically is really the child of a time in the early '80s in LA when there was a confluence of art-rock punks, East LA punks, Queer culture, late-night diners and after hours, basement shows, dueling live music venues in Chinatown as the epicenter of the scene, and suburban backyard parties. When Hollywood was dangerous and full of possibility, and before the jocks and bros crashed the punk party.”******If you would like to contact the show about being a guest, please email us at Dauna@bettertopodcast.comFollow us on Social MediaInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/author_d.m.needom/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bettertopodcastwithdmneedomIntro and Outro music compliments of Fast Suzi©2025 Better To...Podcast with D. M. NeedomSupport the show

Nueva York siempre ha presumido de ser la ciudad que nunca duerme, pero últimamente pide silencio a gritos. Por eso cada vez hay más espacios donde lo más valiosos es la falta de ruido. Se las conoce como cafeterías silenciosas y se han convertido en auténticos refugios urbanos para reconectar con uno mismo. En el café Biblioteque, ubicado en pleno barrio del Soho, Silvia Haeminens busca precisamente eso: un buen ambiente de trabajo en el que pueda concentrarse “Siento que hay buena vibra, me encanta la música, está muy bien… Aprecio el silencio, sobre todo tengo que acabar un trabajo”, explica.    La pandemia disparó el teletrabajo y con apartamentos cada vez más pequeños, muchos neoyorquinos han buscado despachos improvisados fuera de casa. Es el caso de Marian Redford, sentada a pocos metros de Silvia, disfruta de una infusión mientras se pone al día con sus emails. “Sí, he venido buscando un lugar donde me sienta cómoda, que sea silencioso para que pueda trabajar, y no hay muchos lugares en esta ciudad como este, así que cuando encuentro un lugar como este trato de seguir viniendo”, cuenta Marian bajando la voz casi sin darse cuenta. Aquí no hay lugar para gritos, ni para el estruendo de los autos que se escucha fuera. En la calle el sonido te recuerda que Nueva York es una de las ciudades más ruidosas de Estados Unidos. Y cada vez más personas entienden que el bullicio acaba pasando factura, la OMS (Organización Mundial de la Salud) lleva años alertando de su impacto en el estrés y el sueño. Y los expertos subrayan que el silencio ayuda a recuperar la concentración. De ahí que el silencio se esté convirtiendo en un pequeño lujo cotidiano que los neoyorquinos buscan constantemente. En el Silentcafe de Chinatown la calma y tranquilidad es casi una norma. Sus paredes completamente blancas evitan cualquier tipo de distracción, el olor a incienso llena la sala y unos enormes altavoces se encargan de que la música esté siempre al volumen justo. Para el propietario AJ Jacono, el hilo musical era fundamental cuando abrió su negocio. “Si la música estuviera muy alta, la gente no lo disfrutaría, sería difícil escucharse, concentrarse. Cuando abrí el negocio buscaba un lugar donde la gente pudiera hablar sin preocuparse de que nada les moleste”, dice Jacono. Ahora en Nueva York el ruido ya no está de moda, se busca un respiro que ayude a bajar revoluciones.

San Francisco's Chinatown is the oldest Chinatown in North America and one of the largest Chinese enclaves outside Asia. Spanning 30 city blocks and home to tens of thousands of monolingual Chinese residents, its endurance is remarkable—especially given how close it came to erasure. In Chinatown: San Francisco's 1906 Earthquake and the Paradox of American Immigration Policy (JHU Press, 2026), Dr. Dafeng Xu uncovers the contested history of this vibrant community, focusing on the transformative period surrounding the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed 80 percent of the city, including Chinatown. White San Franciscans saw the disaster as an opportunity to permanently displace the neighborhood. Instead, Chinatown was rebuilt—but not without conflict or consequence. Using detailed census data and other historical documents, Dr. Xu examines how this rebuilt Chinatown differed socially and physically from its earlier form—and the many ways it stayed the same. He explores whether the earthquake shifted patterns of segregation, if and how Chinese immigrants navigated pressure to assimilate—including adopting English, changing their names, and leaving ethnic neighborhoods—and whether they gained economic ground in the city's new landscape. Dr. Xu's study reveals a striking contradiction: while Chinese Americans were often criticized for not assimilating, systemic barriers made that very process nearly impossible. The post-disaster Chinatown became a symbol of cultural resilience, shaped by both community agency and persistent exclusion. Rich in insight and original research, Chinatown offers a powerful look at how disaster, racism, and resistance shaped one of America's most storied immigrant neighborhoods. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

San Francisco's Chinatown is the oldest Chinatown in North America and one of the largest Chinese enclaves outside Asia. Spanning 30 city blocks and home to tens of thousands of monolingual Chinese residents, its endurance is remarkable—especially given how close it came to erasure. In Chinatown: San Francisco's 1906 Earthquake and the Paradox of American Immigration Policy (JHU Press, 2026), Dr. Dafeng Xu uncovers the contested history of this vibrant community, focusing on the transformative period surrounding the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed 80 percent of the city, including Chinatown. White San Franciscans saw the disaster as an opportunity to permanently displace the neighborhood. Instead, Chinatown was rebuilt—but not without conflict or consequence. Using detailed census data and other historical documents, Dr. Xu examines how this rebuilt Chinatown differed socially and physically from its earlier form—and the many ways it stayed the same. He explores whether the earthquake shifted patterns of segregation, if and how Chinese immigrants navigated pressure to assimilate—including adopting English, changing their names, and leaving ethnic neighborhoods—and whether they gained economic ground in the city's new landscape. Dr. Xu's study reveals a striking contradiction: while Chinese Americans were often criticized for not assimilating, systemic barriers made that very process nearly impossible. The post-disaster Chinatown became a symbol of cultural resilience, shaped by both community agency and persistent exclusion. Rich in insight and original research, Chinatown offers a powerful look at how disaster, racism, and resistance shaped one of America's most storied immigrant neighborhoods. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/asian-american-studies

San Francisco's Chinatown is the oldest Chinatown in North America and one of the largest Chinese enclaves outside Asia. Spanning 30 city blocks and home to tens of thousands of monolingual Chinese residents, its endurance is remarkable—especially given how close it came to erasure. In Chinatown: San Francisco's 1906 Earthquake and the Paradox of American Immigration Policy (JHU Press, 2026), Dr. Dafeng Xu uncovers the contested history of this vibrant community, focusing on the transformative period surrounding the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed 80 percent of the city, including Chinatown. White San Franciscans saw the disaster as an opportunity to permanently displace the neighborhood. Instead, Chinatown was rebuilt—but not without conflict or consequence. Using detailed census data and other historical documents, Dr. Xu examines how this rebuilt Chinatown differed socially and physically from its earlier form—and the many ways it stayed the same. He explores whether the earthquake shifted patterns of segregation, if and how Chinese immigrants navigated pressure to assimilate—including adopting English, changing their names, and leaving ethnic neighborhoods—and whether they gained economic ground in the city's new landscape. Dr. Xu's study reveals a striking contradiction: while Chinese Americans were often criticized for not assimilating, systemic barriers made that very process nearly impossible. The post-disaster Chinatown became a symbol of cultural resilience, shaped by both community agency and persistent exclusion. Rich in insight and original research, Chinatown offers a powerful look at how disaster, racism, and resistance shaped one of America's most storied immigrant neighborhoods. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

San Francisco's Chinatown is the oldest Chinatown in North America and one of the largest Chinese enclaves outside Asia. Spanning 30 city blocks and home to tens of thousands of monolingual Chinese residents, its endurance is remarkable—especially given how close it came to erasure. In Chinatown: San Francisco's 1906 Earthquake and the Paradox of American Immigration Policy (JHU Press, 2026), Dr. Dafeng Xu uncovers the contested history of this vibrant community, focusing on the transformative period surrounding the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed 80 percent of the city, including Chinatown. White San Franciscans saw the disaster as an opportunity to permanently displace the neighborhood. Instead, Chinatown was rebuilt—but not without conflict or consequence. Using detailed census data and other historical documents, Dr. Xu examines how this rebuilt Chinatown differed socially and physically from its earlier form—and the many ways it stayed the same. He explores whether the earthquake shifted patterns of segregation, if and how Chinese immigrants navigated pressure to assimilate—including adopting English, changing their names, and leaving ethnic neighborhoods—and whether they gained economic ground in the city's new landscape. Dr. Xu's study reveals a striking contradiction: while Chinese Americans were often criticized for not assimilating, systemic barriers made that very process nearly impossible. The post-disaster Chinatown became a symbol of cultural resilience, shaped by both community agency and persistent exclusion. Rich in insight and original research, Chinatown offers a powerful look at how disaster, racism, and resistance shaped one of America's most storied immigrant neighborhoods. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/public-policy

San Francisco's Chinatown is the oldest Chinatown in North America and one of the largest Chinese enclaves outside Asia. Spanning 30 city blocks and home to tens of thousands of monolingual Chinese residents, its endurance is remarkable—especially given how close it came to erasure. In Chinatown: San Francisco's 1906 Earthquake and the Paradox of American Immigration Policy (JHU Press, 2026), Dr. Dafeng Xu uncovers the contested history of this vibrant community, focusing on the transformative period surrounding the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed 80 percent of the city, including Chinatown. White San Franciscans saw the disaster as an opportunity to permanently displace the neighborhood. Instead, Chinatown was rebuilt—but not without conflict or consequence. Using detailed census data and other historical documents, Dr. Xu examines how this rebuilt Chinatown differed socially and physically from its earlier form—and the many ways it stayed the same. He explores whether the earthquake shifted patterns of segregation, if and how Chinese immigrants navigated pressure to assimilate—including adopting English, changing their names, and leaving ethnic neighborhoods—and whether they gained economic ground in the city's new landscape. Dr. Xu's study reveals a striking contradiction: while Chinese Americans were often criticized for not assimilating, systemic barriers made that very process nearly impossible. The post-disaster Chinatown became a symbol of cultural resilience, shaped by both community agency and persistent exclusion. Rich in insight and original research, Chinatown offers a powerful look at how disaster, racism, and resistance shaped one of America's most storied immigrant neighborhoods. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

San Francisco has a women's sports bar! In this episode, meet Danielle Thoe and Sara Yergovich. Together, they own and operate Rikki's, a women's sports bar on Market in the Castro. We'll hear from Danielle and Sara about their early lives and how they made their way to San Francisco and became friends. We'll also hear the story of why and how they opened The City's first women's sports bar, as well as the incredible woman they named it for. Most importantly, both Sara and Danielle (and me, Jeff) are Libras

Fidel Caballero is the chef-owner of Corima in New York City, a progressive Mexican restaurant located in Chinatown with one Michelin star. Fidel is also behind the hit burrito shop and bakery Vato, which has become the talk of brownstone Brooklyn and well beyond. In this episode, Fidel shares his journey from Mexico and El Paso to China, the Basque region, and finally New York City. Fidel is a rising star, 20 years in the making, and it was great to hear his story.  And before that Matt recaps recent visits to Santi, Cove, and Samwoojong, all in New York City. Subscribe to This Is TASTE: ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A national championship ring on one hand, a turntable on the other. That's the unexpected arc of DJ Nasty Nate, who traded Auburn football practices for late nights in Honolulu's Chinatown and found a craft worth building from the ground up.We dive into the real playbook for breaking into Hawaiʻi's DJ scene—no clout chasing, no gimmicks. Nate walked us through how showing up to clubs and venues, listening before asking, and introducing himself with aloha opened doors faster than any pitch. He breaks down the differences between Birmingham's trap-heavy nights and Oʻahu's genre-blending crowds, why Latin sets became his biggest learning curve, and how he balances new heat with the familiar records people forgot they love. From reggae to R&B to hip hop to reggaeton, he treats each night like a puzzle: peak, reset, send folks to the bar, and bring them back without burning the room out.We also get into the craft. Nate still practices on turntables to keep his ear honest, avoids repeating the previous DJ's set, and builds crates as a foundation before freestyling where the crowd leads. He shares candid thoughts on timeless R&B versus TikTok-fast trends, why some songs will outlive the news cycle.  The community piece matters too: Hawaiʻi's collaborative culture, Scratcher Hawaiʻi, and Bay Area ties that prove sharing shine doesn't dim your own.Offstage, Nate coaches at UFC Gym Kailua with a functional fitness focus—helping clients move better, feel stronger, and build sustainable habits. The mindset that earned him a scholarship at Auburn now powers long nights, consistent practice, and a growing party brand with DJ Marknado. He's building Much Loved into a traveling R&B experience while keeping Hawaiʻi as home base, investing in social content, and wearing all seven hats modern DJs need.If you care about crowd reading, set building, vinyl respect, or how to enter a tight-knit market the right way, this conversation is packed with examples and honest advice. Hit play, subscribe for more Above the Bridge stories, and drop a comment with the one song that never fails in your city.

A one-room museum located in the basement of a church-turned-community arts center is crammed with mementos from a pretty spectacular period in history. We hang with some retired dancers who recall the time when Chinatown in San Francisco was filled with late night cabarets famed for their showgirls.READ MORE IN THE ATLAS: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/showgirl-magic-museum-san-francisco-california Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're talking about plowmaggedon, the city up in arms about icy streets and blocked-off alleys. We're talking about the looming cuts at the Washington Post and what they mean for hometown DC. And we're talking about an appalling apartment building in Chinatown — and what it says about DC's ability to enforce its own rules. Plus, in a member's only fourth segment, the comeback campaigns of two very longtime local politicians.  Want some more DC news? Then make sure to sign up for our morning newsletter Hey DC. You can text us or leave a voicemail at: ‪(202) 642-2654‬. You can also become a member, with ad-free listening, for as little as $10 a month. Learn more about the sponsors of this January 30th episode: Library of CongressInterested in advertising with City Cast? Find more info HERE

Welcome to our exciting new series, A Script By...Before it was a film, it was a script. Brad Koszo dives deep into some of Hollywood's most celebrated screenplays to analyze their structure, themes, and page-to-film journey. Get ready for a look at the writers behind the words as he explore their process, what influenced them, and how they inspired some of the iconic cinema we enjoy today. Chuck Bryan from The Cinematic Flashback Podcast joins Brad on the very first episode of this monthly series, as they turn the page on Robert Towne's Chinatown!Check out our NEW YouTube Channel and subscribe now! If you're one of the first 100 subscribers, you'll be entered to win a weekend pass for one of several comic cons happening in 2026!Head over to our Patreon and get started with a FREE 7-day trial. We've got plenty of exclusive content and episodes that you'll only find there! You can also sign up as a free member! www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.Find us on Instagram, X, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

Hundreds of protesters marched in Philadelphia earlier this week and held a demonstration outside the Immigration and Customs Enforcement field office in the city's Chinatown neighborhood. Governor Josh Shapiro campaigned on getting justice for sexual abuse survivors during his first gubernatorial run. Now, some say he hasn’t done enough to fulfill those promises as governor. Governor Josh Shapiro is calling for an end to the federal government's immigration crackdown in Minneapolis. Speaking Tuesday night on CNN, Shapiro said federal officials have “eviscerated the trust that should exist between law enforcement and the community.” U.S. Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania is among those calling for the firing of Kristi Noem, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. And now a deep dive: President Donald Trump’s Department of Homeland Security is claiming a newfound authority to enter some immigrants' homes without a warrant signed by a judge. Pennsylvania legal experts are calling the move unconstitutional. In uncertain times, our community counts on facts, not noise. Support the journalism and programming that keep you informed. Donate now at www.witf.org/givenow. And thank you. Support WITF: https://www.witf.org/support/give-now/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

300 hundred restaurants in 22 countries might not sound like a billion dollar empire, but you would be wrong. Dave Young: Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom-and-pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector, and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is… Well, it’s us, but we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients, so here’s one of those. [OG Law Ad] Dave Young: Welcome back to the Empire Builders Podcast. I’m Dave Young. Stephen Semple is here, and we’re going to talk about the building of another empire. And I’ve got to admit, I don’t know a whole lot about this one. I’ve maybe… Stephen Semple: Oh, wow. That’s exciting. Dave Young: We’re going to talk about P.F. Chang’s. I’ve maybe eaten at one of them, I would say less than half a dozen times in my life. Stephen Semple: Okay. Dave Young: And I think it’s just more of a convenience and proximity issue. I’m never really near any of them. Stephen Semple: So while they’re big, they’re not massive. They’re 300 restaurants in 22 countries, so they’re not like many of the other things we’ve talked about where there’s thousands of them. Dave Young: Right. Stephen Semple: So no, they’re not as prevalent. But look, 300 restaurants is still pretty successful. Dave Young: Yeah, that’s a lot. How did they get started? I’m not going to guess. I’m going to let you tell me. Stephen Semple: Okay. The business was founded by Philip Chiang and Paul Fleming. And Paul Fleming, you might recognize because he’s of Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse fame. Dave Young: Oh, okay. Stephen Semple: They got together, and they founded P.F. Chang in Scottsdale, Arizona- Dave Young: That makes a lot of sense. Stephen Semple: … in 1993. Now, Philip spells his last name C-H-I-A-N-G. So at a certain point, he changed his spelling just to make it easier. Drop the I and make it easier. Dave Young: Drop the I and made it just… Spell it the way it sounds. Stephen Semple: … Spell it the way it sounds, make it easier for the U.S. market. And the company has been bought and sold a few times over the years, but the first acquisition from the founders, from Philip and Paul, happened in 2012 by Centerbridge Partners in a deal worth a little bit over a billion dollars. Dave Young: Wow. Stephen Semple: They did okay. They walk away with some cash. Dave Young: Now, was it before or after they started putting it in supermarkets? Stephen Semple: I do not know the answer to that question. Dave Young: Probably predates. Stephen Semple: I’m going to suspect after. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: But the story starts with Philip’s mother, Cecilia Chiang. Cecilia was born in Beijing in 1920 to a really wealthy family. She grew up in a palace in China, ate high-end food, full staff, chefs, the whole nine yards, part of the aristocracy. And during the Chinese Civil War and the Japanese occupation, her family fled China and relocated in Japan, and there, the family opened a restaurant. Now in the 1960s, she travels to the U.S. Cecilia travels to U.S. to help her sister who came to America because of the economic challenges in Japan, and her sister had opened a restaurant in San Francisco and needed help- Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: … and Cecilia came over to help her. But that venture failed, but Cecilia still remained in the U.S. And look, Chinese food in America at that time was not good. If you look at just about every food that has come to United States, the first people who brought it, whether it was Italian, whether it was Mexican, whether it was Chinese, the first immigrants were the people who were poor. Dave Young: Yeah. What years are we talking about here? Stephen Semple: 1960. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: So the first immigrants who came were the people who were poor, so therefore, typically the food is not the great food, it’s not made with the great ingredients. And so here she is, she’s looking around and she’s saying, “Look, there’s this poor Chinese food, all basically from the Canton region.” And most of it has been also turned into an American version, because basically, again, people were making it with whatever was available, so it really became very Americanized. Dave Young: Right. Stephen Semple: And Cecilia saw that, and what she wanted to do was introduce America to a more refined Chinese food, what she had experienced growing up as a wealthy person in China. So in 1961, she opens a sit-down restaurant with food from Northern China called The Mandarin. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: And it opens not in Chinatown, because here’s the thing that she recognized, context is everything. If she opened it in Chinatown, people’s expectation would be it would be the same as all the Chinese restaurants in Chinatown. Dave Young: All of them. Right, right. Stephen Semple: So what she did, she opened it on Polk Street, not far from Pacific Heights in San Francisco. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: Bit of a bold move, but she wanted to be seen as different, and that was how you did it. Dave Young: Makes sense. Stephen Semple: Now, the menu had some things that were unfamiliar, like pigeon, and it did not have some things that were expected like chow mein. And she struggled initially, because America was not really ready to try new things. Now, after two years of struggle came her breakout moment. The restaurant was visited by a guy by the name of Herb Kane, who was the most influential columnist in San Francisco history. He was a writer for the San Francisco Chronicle. But here’s the interesting thing, not a food critic. And he comes in the restaurant, falls in love with it, and gives it a great review. And overnight, the place becomes famous. You couldn’t get into it. It was visited by the likes of Julia Child, James Beard. It was totally on the radar. And I actually think the review may have even been more powerful because he was not a food critic. Dave Young: Sure. Yeah. Stephen Semple: But it also goes to show you… We talk about influencers, influence and all these other things, most restaurants be like, “We’ve got to get the food critics in here.” This guy was just a columnist who came in to try out their food- Dave Young: Right. Stephen Semple: … and it made them famous. And one of the things he loved was Peking duck, and so today Peking duck is pretty normal, it was really new back then. And suddenly, authentic Chinese food started to pop up. This really started it. In the late 1960s, Chinese restaurants in the United States doubled to about 10,000 of them. 1966, the first sushi restaurant opens. She opens the second restaurant, and Philip… And we’re talking about Philip Chiang? Dave Young: Right, right. Stephen Semple: Philip, her son, joins the business, and opens The Mandarin Cafe in LA, where he starts modernizing Chinese dishes for American diners, so starts doing a bit more of a fusion, right? Dave Young: Mm-hmm. Stephen Semple: Now, it’s here that Philip meets Paul Fleming, from Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse. Dave Young: Right. Stephen Semple: And Philip starts to build a bit of a friendship with Paul, and wants to work with Paul, wants to leverage his knowledge. Because after all, Ruth Chris is an upscale restaurant, and there’s this rise of casual chains, but Paul is not super excited, because none of them are Chinese, nor is Cecilia. She’s like, “I don’t really want to do this.” Philip is determined, he stays in touch with Paul. So 1979, things really start to change, because the restaurant called China Coach is opened by Wolfgang Puck, and it grows very quickly to 50 restaurants. And it’s the early ’90s, and Cecilia is ready to sell the restaurants. Dave Young: Stay tuned, we’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this. [Using Stories To Sell Ad] Let’s pick up our story where we left off, and trust me, you haven’t missed a thing. Stephen Semple: And it’s the early ’90s, and Cecilia is ready to sell the restaurants, which basically frees Philip to make the changes he wants to do. He cycles back to Paul. Paul’s now looking at it going, “Well, there is this place for this growth and all of this.” So they decide to start something new. And Philip wants to bring other Asian cuisines, he wants to take it beyond Chinese. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: So he wants to add other Asian foods to it. So he spends three years developing the menu, and they changed the spelling of his last name to make it easier. And in 1993, here’s the other thing I found really, really interesting, they chose to open in Scottsdale in 1993. And here’s where Philip learned something from Cecelia, she did not open in Chinatown, she opened somewhere where there was not Chinese restaurants. At the time in Scottsdale, it’s described as a Chinese food desert at the time. Virtually no Chinese restaurants in 1993. Now, many people would go, “Well, you want to open up somewhere…” Nope, open it in Scottsdale. Opening weekend, they had 1,000 people, some waited for hours. Dave Young: Wow. Stephen Semple: Lined up around the block. Now, what really made them successful is Paul brought his ability to be able to scale a business, upscale dining, and really grow the business. And this is what allowed them to quickly… They quickly drove to 200 locations in a few years. And in 2012, 19 years later, they sold it for $1.1 billion. Dave Young: A billion bucks. Stephen Semple: Yeah. And there was also a point in there where they went public, gave them a bump, and then they were sold, and business was taken private, and it’s changed hands a few times. Dave Young: Well, one thing I’ve always known is that they’re not like every Chinese restaurant you’ve ever been in. Even every small town in America has a Chinese restaurant that they always seem to almost even share the same menus. Stephen Semple: Same thing here. Dave Young: Right. And- Stephen Semple: No matter how tiny the community is, there’s a Chinese restaurant. Dave Young: And- Stephen Semple: But it would have those things like chow mein, and- Dave Young: [inaudible 00:11:43], and Kung Pao chicken, and… Stephen Semple: Yeah. Dave Young: Sure. Stephen Semple: She took those things that were very common and very familiar and left them off of her menu, which was a bold move as well. Dave Young: Yeah, because otherwise we’d all be going in there ordering the Kung Pao chicken. Stephen Semple: We wouldn’t be having the Peking duck. Right. We wouldn’t be having the Peking duck. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: So it was really interesting what she did, she leaned in to the difference in terms of opening it, because her mission was to bring this food, didn’t open in Chinatown, and left some popular things out, added some interesting things. But let’s face it, she struggled, and then there was the breakout moment. But here’s the part about all of this, now sometimes the trick is you have to be able to survive. If you’re able to survive, and you’re doing something truly remarkable, that breakout moment often happens. Now, advertising and promotion can accelerate that breakout moment, because it exposes people to this new idea, and entices them to come in. But if you do something… But it really and truly has to be remarkable. If you do something remarkable, and you do it really well, and if you can survive through the slow times, you get those breakout moments. Dave Young: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a really cool story. And the place has always felt… Yes, it’s Chinese, but no, it’s different. Stephen Semple: Yeah. Well- Dave Young: You can see the Ruth’s Chris DNA in the place, right? The- Stephen Semple: It’s funny, I had no… And I’ve been in a couple of P.F. Chang’s, and I had no idea the relationship with it. And as soon as I read that, I was like, “Oh, that makes…” It was sort of one of those. As soon as it’s presented that he was involved, it was like, “Oh, that makes so much sense, and I can see it.” It’s sort of funny how you didn’t see it, a lot of these things, hidden, and then it’s revealed, and suddenly it’s obvious, right? Dave Young: Yeah. In the last episode we talked about… I think it was one of the last episodes, we talked quite extensively about brand extension. Stephen Semple: Yes. Dave Young: And this is another good example of what we know would not have worked, and that would’ve been a Chinese restaurant by Ruth Chris. Stephen Semple: Correct. Correct. That’s a great observation. Yes. It would not have worked. Dave Young: Ruth’s Chris Chinese would not have worked. Stephen Semple: Right. Dave Young: You couldn’t leverage the good name of a steakhouse into a Chinese restaurant. Stephen Semple: No. Dave Young: Because that would not work. But you can take the DNA from the steakhouse, the high-end ritzy steakhouse, and apply it in measured ways to a high-end Chinese restaurant. And that’s exactly what they did, they took the luxury part of it, and made a luxury Chinese restaurant. Stephen Semple: Yeah. How the food is presented, how the place is decorated, although it would be decorated regionally different, and how the staff are trained, and all of those… And how the kitchen is run. I bet you if you walk into the two kitchens, you’d go, “Oh, I totally see…” I bet you the methodology in terms of how the kitchen is managed and all those other things is probably exactly the same. Yeah, so you’re right. You’re taking the DNA, and then basically modifying the presentation of that DNA to fit that thing, and giving it its own identity. And the problem that people make is they’ll look at it, go, “Well, the DNA is the same, so why can’t you just name it same?” And it’s, again, it’s like you talked about before, those hidden barriers. We think about the places of steakhouse, what’s the expectation? The expectation is steak, fine wines, potatoes, shrimp, lobster. Yes, there’ll be also vegetables, and grilled things, and all this other stuff, right? Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: You could even put in an appetizer of Peking duck and it would be fine, but you can’t make it a Chinese restaurant. Dave Young: Yeah, I think- Stephen Semple: Just like you couldn’t go the other way. Dave Young: You and I should buy Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse. Stephen Semple: Why should we do that? Dave Young: Just so we could change the name to Dave’s Steve’s Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse. Stephen Semple: Yeah, I’m going to pass. As awesome in ideas that sounds, as amazing as we would be at running- Dave Young: Another brand violation. I can see it now. Stephen Semple: Is this like a restaurant? Dave Young: All right. Well, thank you for sharing the P.F. Chang story. Now I’ve got to find one near me, and… I don’t want the bag of frozen stuff from the restaurant, I want to go in. Stephen Semple: God, no. You want to go and do the restaurant. Dave Young: Yeah, I want the experience. Stephen Semple: And they are good. They are fine. Dave Young: Yeah, yeah, every time I’ve been, but I just haven’t been very many times. Stephen Semple: Right. Dave Young: All right. Thank you. Stephen Semple: All right. Awesome. Thanks, David. Dave Young: Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app, and leave us a big, fat, juicy five-star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. And if you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute empire-building session, you can do it at empirebuildingprogram.com.

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/gender-studies

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/economics

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A feminist romp through pop culture that illuminates how women influence and shape the economy. Taylor Swift isn't just a pop megastar. She is a working woman whose astounding accomplishments defy patriarchal norms. And while not all women can be Beyoncé or Dolly Parton or Reese Witherspoon, the successes of these trailblazing stars help us understand the central role of women in today's economy. Swiftynomics: How Women Mastermind and Redefine Our Economy (U California Press, 2026) assesses the complex economic lives of everyday American women through the stories of groundbreakers like Taylor Swift, Misty L. Heggeness digs into the data, revealing women's hidden contributions and aspirations—the unexamined value they create by pursuing their own ambitions. She highlights the abundance of productive activity in their daily lives and acknowledges the barriers they still face. Exploring critical reforms regarding caregiving and gendered labor, this book offers advice for women to thrive in an economy that was not built for them. More about the author: Misty L. Heggeness is co-director of the Kansas Population Center, Associate Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the University of Kansas, and former Principal Economist and Senior Advisor at the US Census Bureau. She is also creator of The Care Board, a dashboard of economic statistics built by and for caregivers that brings their economic contributions into the fold. Learn more about Swifynomics: here Learn more about Misty: here More about the host: Kailey Tse-Harlow is a Chinese-Irish writer born and raised in Boston's Chinatown. She earned her BA in Film and Television Production from Emerson College and her MFA in Creative Writing from Lesley University. Her nonfiction writing has appeared in MIT News, and she is currently at work on her debut novel with support from Tin House. Based in Cambridge, MA, Kailey lives with her partner and two cats. Alongside her writing, she works as a freelance publicist part-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/popular-culture

Wine isn't often the drink of choice in Chinese restaurants, yet the country's immigrants played a key role in planting Northern California vineyards and building wineries after the Gold Rush. Now, a Chinese American winemaker is bringing a taste of that history — along with her Sonoma and Napa wines — to Chinatown restaurants in the Bay Area and beyond. Reporter: Tina Caputo California State University has reached a legal settlement with its faculty union over the sharing of faculty information with federal authorities. Reporter: Juan Carlos Lara, KQED After over a decade of planning, and years of construction, Butte County finally has a new jail. Reporter: Claudia Brancart, North State Public Radio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The LA Times released a list of the best 101 films set in Los Angeles. The number one spot went to the 1974 film Chinatown, directed by Roman Polanski, starring Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway, with the backdrop of a 1930’s Los Angeles. Second place went to David Lynch’s Mulholland Drive (2001), and some other notable picks include Blade Runner (1982), Her (2013), Tangerine (2015) and Boyz n the Hood (1991). Joining Larry Mantle on FilmWeek to discuss some of the more surprising films included and their personal favorites are LAist film critics Manuel Betancourt, assistant editor of Documentary Magazine, and one of the contributors to the LA Times’ Best LA Movies list, and Wade Major, film critic for CineGods.com and author of the “Hollywood Heretic” Substack. You can read the LA Times’ 101 Best LA Movies list here.

Welcome back to Not A Bomb! —the podcast where we resurrect cinema's most infamous box office disasters and ask the burning question: was it really that bad? We're celebrating five years of cinematic redemption.For the month of January, Not A Bomb asks a very important cinematic question: what happens when actors decide that being in front of the camera just isn't enough and take a shot at directing themselves? In the latest episode of Not A Bomb, Troy and Brad crack open one of Hollywood's strangest sequels — The Two Jakes. Arriving sixteen years after Chinatown, this long‑delayed follow‑up limped into theaters weighed down by production troubles, an unfinished script, and the impossible shadow of one of the greatest neo‑noirs ever made.Jack Nicholson pulls double duty this time, stepping behind the camera while reprising his role as private eye J.J. “Jake” Gittes. But despite the star power and the legacy attached, the film barely made a dent upon release, leaving audiences and critics wondering whether this sequel ever had a fighting chance.Does The Two Jakes earn its place as a continuation of a classic, or is it proof that some stories are better left alone? Troy and Brad dig into the mystery.The Two Jakes is directed by Jack Nicholson and stars Jack Nicolson, Harvey Keitel, Madeleine Stowe, Eli Wallach, Ruben Blades, Frederic Forrest, David Keith, and Richard FarnsworthWant to help support the show? Head over to the Not A Bomb Tee Public store and check our merchandise. Special thanks to Ted Blair for the amazing designs!We're committed to hearing your feedback and suggestions. If there's a cinematic flop you'd like us to delve into, please reach out to us at NotABombPod@gmail.com or through our contact page. Your reviews and feedback are what drive us. If you enjoy our content, consider leaving a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.Cast: Brad, Troy

APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On this episode, host Miata Tan speaks with three guests from the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice (CCSJ), a leading community-based resource providing direct victim services for Asian Americans in San Francisco. They unpack CCSJ's approach to policy change, community advocacy, and public education, and reveal how their Collective Knowledge Base Catalog captures lessons from their work. Important Links: Community Safety and Justice (CCSJ) CCSJ Collective Knowledge Base Catalog CCSJ‘s four founding partners are the Chinatown Community Development Center, Chinese for Affirmative Action, Chinese Progressive Association, and Community Youth Center. Transcript: [00:00:00]  Miata Tan: Hello and welcome. You are tuning into APEX Express, a weekly radio show, uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are focusing on community safety. The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ, is the leading community-based resource in providing direct victim [00:01:00] services for Asian Americans in San Francisco. The four founding partners of the Coalition are Chinatown Community Development Center, Chinese for Affirmative Action, Chinese Progressive Association, and the Community Youth Center. You might have heard of some of these orgs. Today we are joined by three incredibly hardworking individuals who are shaping this work. First up is Janice Li, the Coalition Director. Here she is unpacking the history of the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, and the social moment in which it was formed in response to. Janice Li: Yeah, so we formed in 2019 and it was at a time where we were seeing a lot of high profile incidents impacting and harming our Asian American communities, particularly Chinese seniors. We were seeing it across the country due to rhetoric of the Trump administration at that time that was just throwing, oil onto fire and fanning the flames. [00:02:00] And we were seeing those high profile incidents right here in San Francisco. And the story I've been told, because I, I joined CCSJ as its Coalition Director in 2022, so it says a few years before I joined. But the story I've been told is that the Executive Directors, the staff at each of these four organizations, they kept seeing each other. At vigils and protests and rallies, and it was a lot of outpouring of community emotions and feelings after these high profile incidents. And the eds were like. It's good that we're seeing each other and coming together at these things, but like, what are we doing? How are we changing the material conditions of our communities? How are we using our history and our experience and the communities that we've been a part of for literally decades and making our communities safe and doing something that is more resilient than just. The immediate reactive responses that we often know happen [00:03:00] when there are incidents like this. Miata Tan:  And when you say incidents could you speak to that a little bit more?  Janice Li: Yeah. So there were, uh, some of the high profile incidents included a Chinese senior woman who was waiting for a bus at a MUNI stop who was just randomly attacked. And, there were scenes of her. Fighting back. And then I think that had become a real symbol of Asians rejecting that hate. And the violence that they were seeing. You know, at the same time we were seeing the spa shootings in Atlanta where there were, a number of Southeast Asian women. Killed in just completely senseless, uh, violence. And then, uh, we are seeing other, similar sort of high profile random incidents where Chinese seniors often where the victims whether harmed, or even killed in those incident. And we are all just trying to make sense of. What is happening? [00:04:00] And how do we help our communities heal first and foremost? It is hard to make sense of violence and also figure out how we stop it from happening, but how we do it in a way that is expansive and focused on making all of our communities better. Because the ways that we stop harm cannot be punitive for other individuals or other communities. And so I think that's always been what's really important for CCSJ is to have what we call a holistic view of community safety. Miata Tan: Now you might be wondering, what does a holistic view and approach to community safety look like in practice? From active policy campaigns to direct victim service support, the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice offers a range of different programs. Janice Li, the Coalition Director, categorizes this work into three different [00:05:00] buckets.  Janice Li: It is responding to harm when it occurs, and that's, you know, really centering victims and survivors and the harm that they faced and the healing that it takes to help those, folks. The second piece is really figuring out how do we change our systems so that they're responsive to the needs of our communities. And what that looks like is a lot of policy change and a lot of policy implementation. It's a lot of holding government accountable to what they should be doing. And the third piece is recognizing that our communities don't exist in vacuums and all of our work needs to be underpinned by cross-racial healing and solidarity. To acknowledge that there are historic tensions and cultural tensions between different communities of color in particular, and to name it, we know that there are historic tensions here in San Francisco between the Black and Chinese communities. We have to name it. We have to see it, and we have to bring community [00:06:00] leaders together, along with our community members to find spaces where we can understand each other. And most importantly for me is to be able to share joy so that when conflict does occur, that we are there to be able to build bridges and communities as part of the healing that we, that has to happen. Miata Tan: Let's zoom in on the direct victim services work that CCSJ offers. What does this look like exactly and how is the Coalition engaging the community? How do people learn about their programs? Janice Li: We receive referrals from everyone, but initially, and to this day, we still receive a number of referrals from the police department as well as the District Attorney's Victim Services division, where, you know, the role that the police and the DA's office play is really for the criminal justice proceedings. It is to go through. What that form of criminal justice accountability. Could look like, but it's [00:07:00] not in that way, victim centered. So they reach out to community based organizations like Community Youth Center, CYC, which runs CCSJ, direct Victim Services Program to provide additional community. Based services for those victims. And CYC takes a case management approach. CYC has been around for decades and their history has been working, particularly with youth, particularly at risk youth. And they have a long history of taking a case management approach for supporting youth in all the ways that they need support. And so they use this approach now for people of all ages, but many of the victims that we serve are adults, and many of them are senior, and almost all of them are limited English proficient. So they need not only culturally competent support, but also in language support. And so the case management approach is we figure out what it is that person needs. And sometimes it's mental health [00:08:00] services and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's trying to figure out in home social services, sometimes it's not. Sometimes for youth it might be figure out how to work with, SF Unified school district, our public school system you know, does that student need a transfer? It could be the world of things. I think the case management approach is to say, we have all of these possible tools, all of these forms of healing at our disposal, and we will bring all of those resources to the person who has been harmed to help their healing process. Miata Tan: I'm curious. I know we can't speak to specific cases, but. how did this work evolve? what did it look like then and what does it look like today? Janice Li: What I would say is that every single case is so complex and what the needs of the victims are and for their families who might be trying to process, you know, the death of one of their loved ones. What that [00:09:00] healing looks like and what those needs are. There's not one path, one route, one set of services that exist, but I think what is so important is to really center what those needs are. I think that the public discourse so much of the energy and intention ends up being put on the alleged perpetrator. Which I know there's a sense of, well, if that person is punished, that's accountability. But that doesn't take into account. Putting back together the pieces of the lives that have been just shattered due to these awful, terrible, tragic incidents.  And so what we've learned through the direct victim services that we provide in meeting harm when it occurs is sometimes it's victims wake you up in the hospital and wondering, how am I going to take care of my kids? Oh my gosh, what if I lose my job? How am I gonna pay for this? I don't speak English. I don't understand what my doctors and nurses are telling me [00:10:00] right now. Has anyone contacted my family? What is going on? What I've seen from so many of these cases is that there aren't people there. in the community to support those folks in that sort of like intimate way because the, the public discourse, the newspaper articles the TV news, it's all about, that person who committed this crime, are they being punished harsh enough? While when you really think about healing is always going to have to be victim and survivor centered.   Miata Tan: Janice Li describes this victim and survivor centered approach as a central pillar of the Coalition for Community Safety and Justices work. I asked her about how she sees people responding to the Coalition's programming and who the communities they serve are. Janice Li: So the Direct Victim Services program is just one of the many, many programs that CCSJ runs. Um, we do a wide range of policy advocacy. Right now, we've been focused a lot [00:11:00] on transit safety, particularly muni safety. We do a lot of different kinds of community-based education. What we are seeing in our communities, and we do work across San Francisco. Is that people are just really grateful that there are folks that they trust in the community that are centering safety and what community safety looks like to us. Because our organizations have all been around for a really long time, we already are doing work in our communities. So like for example, CCDC, Chinatown Community Development Center, they're one of the largest affordable housing nonprofits in the city. They have a very robust resident services program amongst the dozens of like apartment buildings and, large housing complexes that they have in their portfolio. And so, some of the folks that participate in programs might be CCDC residents. some of the folks participating in our programs are, folks that are part of CPA's existing youth program called Youth MOJO. They might [00:12:00] be folks that CAA have engaged through their, immigrant parent voting Coalition, who are interested in learning more about youth safety in the schools. So we're really pulling from our existing bases and existing communities and growing that of course. I think something that I've seen is that when there are really serious incidents of violence harming our community, one example Paul give, um, was a few years ago, there was a stabbing that occurred at a bakery called a Bakery in Chinatown, right there on Stockton Street. And it was a horrific incident.  The person who was stabbed survived. And because that was in the heart of Chinatown in a very, very popular, well-known bakery. in the middle of the day there were so many folks in the Chinatown community who were  they just wanted to know what was happening, and they were just so scared, like, could this happen to me? I go to that bakery, can I leave my apartment? Like I don't know what's going on. [00:13:00] So a lot of the times, one of the things that CCSJ does as part of our rapid response, beyond just serving and supporting the victim or victims and survivors themselves, is to ensure that we are either creating healing spaces for our communities, or at least disseminating accurate real-time information. I think that's the ways that we can Be there for our communities because we know that the harm and the fears that exist expand much more beyond just the individuals who were directly impacted by, you know, whatever those incidents of harm are. Miata Tan: And of course, today we've been speaking a lot about the communities that you directly serve, which are more Asian American folks in San Francisco. But how do you think that connects to, I guess, the broader, myriad of demographics that, uh, that live here.  Janice Li: Yeah. So, CCSJ being founded in 2019. We were founded at a time where because of these really [00:14:00] awful, tragic high profile incidents and community-based organizations like CA, a really stepping up to respond, it brought in really historic investments into specifically addressing Asian American and Pacific Islander hate, and violence and. What we knew that in that moment that this investment wasn't going to be indefinite. We knew that. And so something that was really, really important was to be able to archive our learnings and be able to export this, share our. Finding, share, learning, share how we did what we did, why we did what we did, what worked, what didn't work with the broader, committees here in San Francisco State beyond. I will say that one of the first things that we had done when I had started was create actual rapid response protocol. And I remember how so many places across California folks were reaching out to us, being like, oh, I heard that you do community safety [00:15:00] work in the Asian American community. What do you do when something happens because we've just heard from this client, or there was this incident that happened in our community. We just don't know what to do. Just to be able to share our protocol, share what we've learned, why we did this, and say like, Hey, you translate and interpret this for how it works. In whatever community you're in and you know, whatever community you serve. But so much of it is just like documenting your learning is documenting what you do. Um, and so I'm really proud that we've been able to do that through the CCSJ Knowledge Base.   Miata Tan: That was Janice Li, the Coalition Director at the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ. As Janice mentioned, the Coalition is documenting the community safety resources in an online Knowledge Base. More on that later. Our next guest, Tei Huỳnh, will dive deeper into some of the educational workshops and trainings that CCSJ offers. You are tuned into APEX [00:16:00] Express on 94.1 KPFA​ [00:17:00] Welcome back to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are talking about community safety. Tei Huỳnh is a Senior Program Coordinator at Chinese Progressive Association, one of the four organizations that comprise the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice. Here's Tei discussing where their work sits within the Coalition. [00:18:00]  Tei Huỳnh: CPA's kind of piece of the pie with CCS J's work has been to really offer political education to offer membership exchanges with, um, other organizations workshops and trainings for our working class membership base. And so we offer RJ trainings for young people as well as, in language, Cantonese restorative justice training. Miata Tan: For listeners who might not be familiar, could you help to define restorative justice? Tei Huỳnh: Restorative justice is this idea that when harm is done rather than like implementing retributive ways. To bring about justice. There are ways to restore relationships, to center relationships, and to focus efforts of making right relations. Restorative justice often includes like talking circles where like a harm doer or someone who caused harm, right? Someone who is the recipient of harm sit in circle and share stories and really vulnerably, like hear each other out. And so the [00:19:00] first step of restorative justice, 80% of it in communities is, is relationship building, community building. Miata Tan: These sorts of workshops and programs. What do they look like? Tei Huỳnh: In our restorative justice trainings we work with, we actually work with CYC, to have their youth join our young people. And most recently we've worked with another organization called, which works with Latina youth, we bring our youth together and we have, uh, a four-part training and we are doing things like talking about how to give an apology, right? We're like roleplaying, conflict and slowing down and so there's a bit of that, right? That it feels a little bit like counseling or just making space, learning how to like hold emotion. How do we like just sit with these feelings and develop the skill and the capacity to do that within ourselves. And to have difficult conversations beyond us too. And then there's a part of it that is about political education. So trying to make that connection that as we learn to [00:20:00] be more accepting how does that actually look like in politics or like in our day-to-day life today? And does it, does it align? More often than not, right? Like they talk about in their classrooms that it is retributive justice that they're learning about. Oh, you messed up, you're sent out. Or like, oh, you get pink slip, whatever. Or if that's not their personal experience, they can observe that their classmates who look differently than them might get that experience more often than not   And so building beginning to build that empathy as well. Yeah. And then our adults also have, trainings and those are in Cantonese, which is so important. And the things that come up in those trainings are actually really about family dynamics. Our members really wanna know how do we good parents? When we heal our relationship, like learning to have those feelings, learning to locate and articulate our feelings.  To get a Chinese mama to be like, I feel X, Y, Z. Elders to be more in touch with their emotions and then to want to apply that to their family life is amazing, to like know how to like talk through conversations, be a better [00:21:00] parent partner, whatever it may be. Miata Tan: Something to note about the workshops and tools that Tei is describing for us. Yes, it is in response to terrible acts of hate and violence, but there are other applications as well. Tei Huỳnh: And you know, we've seen a lot of leadership in our young people as well, so we started with a restorative justice cohort and young people were literally like, we wanna come back. Can we like help out? You know, and so we like had this track where young people got to be leaders to run their own restorative justice circle. It might sound like really basic, but some of the things we learn about is like how we like practice a script around moving through conflicts too. and that, and we also learn that conflict. It's not bad. Shameful thing. This is actually what we hear a lot from our young people, is that these tools help them. With their friends, with their partners, with their mom. One kid was telling us how he was like going to [00:22:00] get mad about mom asking him to do the dishes he was able to slow down and talk about like how he feels. Sometimes I'm like, oh, are we like releasing little like parent counselors? You know what I mean? Uh, 'cause another young person told us about, yeah. When, when she would, she could feel tension between her and her father. She would slow down and start asking her, her what we call ears questions. and they would be able to slow down enough to have conversations as opposed to like an argument . It makes me think like how as a young person we are really not taught to communicate. We're taught all of these things from what? Dominant media or we just like learn from the style of communication we receive in our home , and exposing young people to different options and to allow them to choose what best fits for them, what feels best for them. I think it's a really, yeah, I wish I was exposed to that . Miata Tan: From younger people to adults, you have programs and workshops for lots of different folks. What are the community needs that this [00:23:00] healing work really helps to address? Tei Huỳnh: What a great question because our youth recently did a survey Within, um, MOJO and then they also did a survey of other young people in the city. And the biggest problem that they're seeing right now is housing affordability because they're getting like, pushed out they think about like, oh yeah, my really good friend now lives in El Sobrante. I can't see my like, best friend we have youth coming from like Richmond, from the East Bay because they want to stay in relationship. And so the ways that, like the lack of affordability in the city for families, working class families has also impacted, our young peoples. Sense of health. And, this is actually a really beautiful extension of, growth, right? In what people are seeing termed as safety, From like a really tangible kind of safety previously safety was like not getting punched, interpersonal violence to now understanding safety from systemic violence as well, which includes, like housing and affordability or [00:24:00] gentrification.   Miata Tan: Through the workshops that Tei runs through the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice Communities are also exposed to others with different lived experiences, including speakers from partner organizations to help make sense of things. Tei Huỳnh: It was a huge moment of like humanization. And restorative justice is really about seeing each other, I remember too, like after our guest speaker from A PSC, our young people were just so moved, and our young people saying like this was the first time that they've shared a room with someone who was formerly incarcerated. they were so moved with like, how funny he was, how smart he was, how all the things you know, and, and that there are all these stories to shed. We really bring in people to share about their lived experiences with our Asian American youth. And then people wanted to like follow up and also Mac from A PSC was so generous and wanted to help them with their college essays and people were like, [00:25:00] yes, they wanna keep talking to you. You know? Um, and that was really sweet. In our. Recent restorative justice work, and our most recent training with POed which works with Latina youth while we saw that it was harder for our young people to just, connect like that, that they were able, that there were like other ways that they were building relationships with  Miata Tan: What were you seeing that went beyond language? Tei Huỳnh: I think it was really sweet to just see like people just trying, right? Like, I think as like young people, it's like, it's also really scary to like, go outside of your, your little bubble, I think as a young person, right? One year we were able to organize for our adult session and our youth session, our final session that happened on the same day. and so we had we had circles together, intergenerational, we brought in a bunch of translators and youth after that were so moved, I think one young person was [00:26:00] talking about how they only like. Chinese adults, they talk to other parents and to like hear these Chinese adults really trying, being really encouraging. There's like something very healing. Restorative justice is not an easy topic for young people. I think at the first level it is about relationships in community to hold those harder feelings. I was really moved by this, a really shy young girl, like choosing to like walk and talk with another young person that they didn't have like that much of a shared language, but Wiley was, they were just really trying to connect. There are moments like when the, youth, like during our break, would wanna put on music and would try to teach the other youth, how they dance to their music. You know, like it's just, it was just like a cultural exchange of sorts too which is really sweet and really fun  ​[00:27:00] [00:28:00]  Miata Tan: You are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I'm your host Miata Tan, and today we are [00:29:00] talking about community safety. Since 2019, the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ, has been leading the charge in helping Asian Americans in San Francisco to heal from instances of harm. From Direct Victim Services to Policy Work. The Coalition has a range of programs. Our next guest is Helen Ho, research and Evaluation manager at Chinese for affirmative action in San Francisco. Her research helps us to better understand the impact of these programs. Here's Helen describing her role and the importance of CCS J's evaluation  Helen Ho: My role is to serve as a container for reflection and evaluation so that we can learn from what we're doing, in the moment, we're always so busy, too busy to kind of stop and, assess. And so my role is to have that [00:30:00] time set aside to assess and celebrate and reflect back to people what we're doing. I was initially brought on through an idea that we wanted to build different metrics of community safety because right now the dominant measures of community safety, when you think about like, how do we measure safety, it's crime rates. And that is a very one dimensional, singular, narrow definition of safety that then narrows our focus into what solutions are effective and available to us. And, and we also know that people's sense of safety goes beyond what are the crime rates published by police departments and only relying on those statistics won't capture the benefits of the work that community organizations and other entities that do more of this holistic long-term work. Miata Tan: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, has been around since 2019. So was this [00:31:00] process, uh, over these five years, or how did you come into this? Helen Ho: Yeah. The Coalition started in 2019, but I came on in. 2023, you know, in 2019 when they started, their main focus was rapid response because there were a lot of high profile incidents that really needed a coordinated community response. And over time they. Wanted to move beyond rapid response to more long-term prevention and, uh, restorative programming. And that's when they were able to get more resources to build out those programs. So that's why I came on, um, a bit later in the Coalition process when a lot of programs were already started or just about to launch. So what I get to do is to interview people that we've served and talk to them about. Their experiences of our programs, how they might have been transformed, how their perspectives might have changed and, and all of that. Then I get to do mini reports or memos and reflect that back to the people who run the programs. And it's just so [00:32:00] rewarding to share with them the impact that they've had that they might not have heard of. 'cause they don't have the time to talk to everyone . And also. Be an outside thought partner to share with them, okay, well this thing might not have worked and maybe you could think about doing something else. Miata Tan: Certainly sounds like really rewarding work. You're at a stage where you're able to really reflect back a lot of the learnings and, and, and work that's being developed within these programs.  Helen Ho: The first phase of this project was actually to more concretely conceptualize what safety is beyond just crime rates because there are many, Flaws with crime statistics. We know that they are under-reported. We know that they embed racial bias. But we also know that they don't capture all the harm that our communities experience, like non-criminal hate acts or other kinds of harm, like being evicted that cause insecurity, instability, feelings [00:33:00] of not being safe, but would not be counted as a crime. So, Um, this involved talking to our Coalition members, learning about our programs, and really getting to the heart of what they. Conceptualized as safety and why they created the programs that they did. And then based on that developed, a set of pilot evaluations for different programs that we did based on those, ideas of what our, you know, ideal outcomes are. We want students to feel safe at school, not only physically, but emotionally and psychologically. We want them to feel like they have a trusted adult to go to when something is wrong, whether. They're being bullied or maybe they're having a hard time at home or, um, you know, their family, uh, someone lost their job and they need extra support. And that all, none of that would be captured in crime rates, but are very important for our sense of safety. So then I did a whole bunch of evaluations where I interviewed folks, tried to collect [00:34:00] quantitative data as well. And that process. Was incredibly rewarding for me because I really admire people who, uh, develop and implement programs. They're doing the real work, you know, I'm not doing the real work. They're doing the real work of actually, supporting our community members. But what I get to do is reflect back their work to them. 'cause in the moment they're just so busy then, and, and many people when they're doing this work, they're like: Am I even doing, making an impact? Am I doing this well? And all they can think about is how can I, you know, what did I do wrong and how can I do better? And, and they don't necessarily think about all the good that they're doing 'cause they don't give themselves the time to appreciate their own work because they're always trying to do better for our communities. Miata Tan: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice is cataloging their learnings online in what they call a Collective Knowledge Base. Janice describes the [00:35:00] Knowledge Base as the endpoint of a long process to better understand the Coalition's work. Helen Ho: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice was doing something, was building something new in San Francisco, and the idea was that there may be other communities across the country who are trying to build something similar and contexts across country, across communities. They're all different, but there is something maybe we could share and learn from each other. And so with this Knowledge Base Catalog, the impetus was to recognize that we're not experts. we're just trying things, building things, and we, we make a lot of mistakes and we're just doing the best that we can, but we've learned something and we'll, we'll share it. and this. Kind of approach really reminded me of a recipe book where you develop a recipe after many, many, many times of testing and tweaking and [00:36:00] building, and there's a recipe that really works for you. And then you can share it. And if you explain, you know, the different steps and some of the. You know, ingredients that are helpful, the techniques and why you chose to do certain things. Someone else can look at that recipe and tweak it how they want. And make it suitable for your own community and context. and once I got onto that analogy it blossomed to something else because. Also the act of creating food, like cooking and feeding our communities is something so important , and yet sometimes it can be seen as not serious. And that's really similar to community Safety is a very serious issue. But then. There's some worries that when we talk about like restoration and healing that's not a serious enough reaction response to safety issues, but when in fact it is crucial and essential, you know, healing and [00:37:00] restoration are crucial for our communities as much as cooking and feeding our communities and both are serious, even if some people think that they're not serious.  Miata Tan: I hear you. I love that metaphor with cooking and the recipe book as well. For our listeners, could you explain where the Knowledge Base Catalog lives online and how people can access it? Helen Ho: Sure. You can go to our website@CCSjsf.org and there's a little tab that says Knowledge Base. And you can either access it through the PDF version where you can get all of the catalog entries in one file, or you can search our database and you can filter or search by different things that you're interested in. So there a lot of programs have, cross functions or cross, aspects to them that might be of interest to you. So for example, if you. We're interested in programs to cultivate trusted community figures so you can look at the different programs that we've done that in different contexts in housing, at schools, or in business [00:38:00] corridors, because when you cultivate those trusted figures, when something bad happens, people then know who to go to, and it's much easier to access resources. You can also, if you're interested in, in language programs, you know, how did we think about doing programming for immigrant communities in their native languages? You can look at our tags and look at all of the programs that are in language. So our Chinese language, restorative justice, or our Chinese language victim services. You can look at all the different ways that we've, done our programming in language and not just in terms of translating something that wasn't English into Chinese, but creating something from the Chinese cultural perspective that would be more resonant with our community members. Miata Tan: How are you reflecting back this work through your research and the Knowledge Base Catalog?  Helen Ho: Before each evaluation, I interviewed the implementers to understand, you know… what's your vision of success? If your [00:39:00] program was successful beyond as wildest dreams what do you think you would see? What do you think people would say about it? And based on those answers, I was able to create some questions and, and measures to then understand. What you know, what assessment would look like in terms of these interviews with, um, program participants or collaborators. And so then I was able to reflect back in these memos about, insights that program participants learned or feelings that they, that they had or for. Program collaborators, what they've seen in their partnerships with us and what they appreciate about our approach and our programming. And also avenues that we could improve our programs. Because we know that harm and violence, although we often talk about them in terms of singular incidents, it's actually a systemic issue. And systemic is a word that people throw around and we don't even know. Like it's so thrown around so much out. I, I don't even remember what it means anymore, but. But we know that there are [00:40:00] big societal issues that cause harm. There's poverty, there's unaddressed mental health and behavioral health issues. There is just a lot of stress that is around that makes us. More tense and flare up and also, or have tensions flare up into conflict which makes us feel unsafe. And so there are policies that we can put in place to create a more. Complete instead of a patchwork system of support and resources so that people can feel more secure economically physically, uh, health wise. And all of that contributes to a, strong lasting and holistic sense of safety.  Miata Tan: As Janice and Helen have both mentioned The Coalition was able to grow in part due to funding that was made during 2019 and 2020 when we were seeing more acts of hate and [00:41:00] violence against Asian Americans. California's Stop the Hate program was one of those investments. Helen explains more about how the work has continued to expand.   Helen Ho: Another reason why the Coalition has been able to evolve is the, government investment in these programs and holistic safety programming. So. The city of San Francisco has been really great through their grants in looking in funding, holistic programming for different racial and ethnic communities and the state. Also, through their Stop the Hate grant has been able to fund programming and also the research and evaluation work that allows us to learn and evolve. Improve and also. Take these learnings beyond when grant programs might end and programs might end, and so that we can hopefully hold onto this, these learnings and not have to start from scratch the next [00:42:00] time Miata Tan: Thank you for laying all that out, Helen. So it sounds like there's a lot of different stakeholders that are really helping to aid this work and move it forward. What have you seen, like what are folks saying have had an impact on their community in a, in a positive way?  Helen Ho: Yeah. There's so much that. The Coalition has done and, and many different impacts. But one program that I evaluated, it was community Youth Center, CYC's, School Outreach Program in which they have teams of adults regularly attending lunch periods or school release periods at several schools in the city. And the idea here is that. At lunchtime or at score release period, kids are free. They're like, we're done with class, we're just gonna be out there wild. And they're figuring how to navigating social relationships, how to be in the world, who they are. , That can come with a lot of conflict, [00:43:00] insecurity a lot of difficulties that then end up, if they escalate enough, could turn into harm. For example, it's middle school kids are playing basketball and so when someone loses a game, they might start a argument and what the school outreach team would do is they're there. They've already built relationships with the students. They can step in and say, Hey, what's going on? Let's talk about this. And they can prevent. Conflicts from escalating into physical harm and also create a teaching moment for students to learn how to resolve their conflicts, how to deal with their difficult emotions of losing and equipping them with tools in the future to then also navigate conflict and, and prevent harm. And so I was able to interview the school collaborators uh, administrators or deans to understand, you know, why did they call on CYC, why did they want to establish this partnership and let adults outside the school come into the [00:44:00] school? And they were just so appreciative of the expertise and experience of the team that they knew. That they could trust the team to develop warm, strong relationships with students of all races and, and identities. That there was not going to be a bias that these adults, the team would be approachable. And so this team brought in both the trust, not only social emotional skills and conflict navigation, but also the organization and responsibility of keeping students physically safe. Another program which is the development of in-language Chinese restorative justice programming and also restorative justice program for Asian American youth. And in interviewing the folks who went through these training programs, I myself learned, truly learned what restorative [00:45:00] justice is. Essentially restorative justice takes the approach that we should, not look to punishment for punishment's sake, but to look at accountability and to restore what has been harmed or lost through, you know, an act of harm in order to do that, we actually have to build community you know, restoring after harm has been done requires relationships and trust for it to be most effective. And so what was really transformative for me was listening to. Youth, high schoolers learn about restorative justice, a completely new idea because so much of their life has been punitive at the home. They do something wrong, they're punished at school, they do something wrong, they're punished. And it's just a default way of reacting to quote unquote wrong. But these youth learned. All of these different [00:46:00] skills for navigating conflict that truly transform the way that they relate to everyone in their life. youth were talking to me about, resolving conflicts with their parents. To believe that their parents could change too. So, you know, what does that have to do with criminal justice? Well, when we think about people who have harmed, a lot of times we're hesitant to go through a restorative route where we just want them to take accountability rather than being punished for punishment's sake for them to change their behavior. But one criticism or barrier to that is we think, oh, they can't change. But you know, if your middle-aged immigrant parent who you thought could never change, could change the sky's the limit in terms of who can change their behavior and be in a better relationship with you. Miata Tan: These workshops are so important in helping to really bring people together and also insight that change. Helen Ho: We also wanna look ahead to [00:47:00] deeper and longer term healing. And so what can we do to restore a sense of safety, a sense of community and especially, um, with a lot of heightened, uh, racial tensions, especially between Asian and black communities that you know, the media and other actors take advantage of our goal of the Coalition is to be able to deescalate those tensions and find ways for communities to see each other and work together and then realize that we can do more to help each other and prevent harm within and across our communities if we work together. For example, we're doing a transit safety audit with our community members, where we've invited our community members who are in for our organization, mainly Chinese, immigrants who don't speak English very well to come with us and ride. The bus lines that are most important to our community coming in and out of Chinatown [00:48:00] to assess what on this bus or this ride makes you feel safe or unsafe, and how can we change something to make you feel safe on the bus? it's so important because public transportation is a lifeline for our community, And so we completed those bus ride alongs and folks are writing in their notebooks and they shared so many. Amazing observations and recommendations that we're now compiling and writing a report to then recommend to, um, S-F-M-T-A, our transit agency the bus. Is one of the few places where a bunch of strangers are in close quarters, a bunch of strangers from many different walks of life. Many different communities are in close quarters, and we just have to learn how to exist with each other. And it could be a really great way for us to practice that skill if we could just do some public education on, how to ride the bus.    Miata Tan: I asked [00:49:00] Helen about how she hopes people will access and build on the learnings in CCS J's Collective Knowledge Base. Helen Ho: Each community will have its own needs and community dynamics And community resources. And so it's hard to say that there's a one size fits all approach, which is also why the recipe book approach is more fitting because everyone just needs to kind of take things, uh, and tweak it to their own contexts. I would just say that for taking it either statewide or nationwide, it's just that something needs to be done in a coordinated fashion that understands the. Importance of long-term solutions for safety and holistic solutions for safety. The understands that harm is done when people's needs are not met, and so we must refocus once we have responded to the crises in the moment of harm, that we [00:50:00] also look to long-term and long lasting community safety solutions. Miata Tan: So with this Knowledge Base, anyone can access it online. Who do you hope will take a peek inside? Helen Ho: Who do I hope would take a peek at the Knowledge Base? I would really love for other people who are at a crossroads just like we were in the early. Days who are scrambling, are building something new and are just in go, go, go mode to come look at some of what we've done so that they just don't have to reinvent the wheel. They could just take something, take one of our templates or. Take some of our topics workshop topics. Something where it just saves them a bunch of time that they don't have to figure it out and then they can move on to the next step of evolving their programs even more. Um, I think that's my greatest hope. I think another this might be too cynical, but I also feel like with [00:51:00] the political. Interest waning in Asian American community safety, that there's going to be a loss of resources. You know, hopefully we can get more resources to sustain these programs, but in reality, a lot of programs will not continue. And it is a tragedy because the people who have developed these programs and worked on them for years Have built so much knowledge and experience and when we just cut programs short, we lose it. We lose the people who have built not only the experience of running this program, but the relationships that they've built in our community that are so hard to replicate and build up again. So my hope is that in however many years when we get another influx of resources from when people care about Asian American community safety, again, that somewhere some will dust off this Knowledge Base. And again, not have [00:52:00] to start from scratch, but, start at a further point so that we can, again, evolve our approach and, and do better for our communities. Miata Tan: That's really beautiful. Hoping that people for the future can access it.  Helen Ho: Another thing about, people either from the future and also in this current moment when they're also asking what's being done. Because I think a part of feeling not safe is that no one's coming to help me and the cynicism of no one's doing anything about this. And and also.  a withdrawal from our community saying, oh, our Asian, the Asian American community, they're approaching it in the wrong way or not doing the right what, whatever it is that your criticism is. But my hope is that folks in our community, folks in the future, folks outside of our, you know, Asian American community, can come to this Knowledge Base and see what we're doing. [00:53:00] Realize that there are, there is a lot of work being put into creating long-term, equitable, holistic safety solutions that can heal individuals in our community, heal our communities at a as a whole, and heal our relationships between communities. And there's so much good being done and that. If more folks join in our collaborations or in our efforts to get more resources to sustain these programs, we can really continue doing great things.  Miata Tan: With this Knowledge Base catalog, is there a way you hope it will continue to evolve to help better inform, I guess someone who might be on the other side of the country or in a totally different place? Miles away from San Francisco. Helen Ho: I would love to be able to do more evaluations and documenting of our work. I mean, we're continually doing more and new stuff. , Even [00:54:00] in a period where we don't have as many resources, we're still doing a lot of work. For example. We are continuing our work to get SFPD to implement a language access policy that works for our communities. And we're doing more and more work on that. And to be able to document that and share that new work would be really exciting. Um, and any other of our new initiatives I will say, going back to the recipe book analogy or metaphor, I don't know if this is just me, but when I have a cookbook, it's great. It's like so long. There's so many recipes. I only use three of them and I use those three all of the time. so that's what I was also thinking about for the Knowledge Base where there's a lot of stuff in here. Hopefully you can find a few things that resonate with you that you can really carry with you into your practice. Miata Tan: Thank you so much for speaking with me today, Helen.  Helen Ho: Thank you for having me. ​[00:55:00]  Miata Tan: The music we played throughout today's [00:56:00] episode was by the incredible Mark Izu check out stick song from his 1992 album Circle of Fire. Such a beautiful track, Now, a big thank you to Janice Tay and Helen for joining me on today's show. You can learn more about the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice via their website. That's ccsjsf.org  Make sure to check out their fantastic Knowledge Base Catalog that Helen spoke to us about from examples of victim centered support programs to rapid response resources during instances of community harm. There's some really important information on there. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. For show notes, check out our website. That's kpfa.org/program/APEX-express. APEX Express is a collective of activists that include [00:57:00] Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam.  Tonight's show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y'all .  ​  The post APEX Express – 1.22.26 – What Is Community Safety? appeared first on KPFA.

Scooping legacy media, Tom and Scott vividly describe a birthday dinner for 10 in Chinatown's best restaurant that was completely ignored by the press. The event, managed ably by Tom's fiancee Sandy, is likened to a festive scene in a Bob Hope-Bing Crosby road picture. But that reference raises a dark question: what if, as in those old films from Hollywood's "golden age", we were actually being fattened to be eaten by cannibals? The truth is wonderfully reassuring.

Kathy Fang was born in the Chinese Hospital in Chinatown in San Francisco. In this episode, meet and get to know Kathy. These days, she's the co-owner (with her dad) and chef at Fang restaurant in South of Market. She's also joined her parents in running their restaurant, the legendary House of Nanking. But her story starts with Lily and Peter (her mom and dad). We'll get to Lily and Peter's story, of course. But Kathy begins by talking about her unique position being born just up the hill from her parents' restaurant, and essentially growing up at House of Nanking. She sees herself as perfectly positioned not only to continue their story but also to share it widely. This podcast serves exactly that purpose. Prior to emigrating from China, neither Lily nor Peter had any professional kitchen experience. They came to the United States having been educated and were looking for good jobs and a better life. But they landed and reality hit. They needed money. Besides a lack of funds, there was the language barrier. Getting jobs in Chinatown restaurants proved the path of least resistence. Time spent behind the scenes in restaurants helped them learn English. Kathy describes her mom as the "risk-taker" of the pair. Lily started noticing that the folks who owned the places they worked in and ate at owned homes, had cars, sent their kids to private schools … that sort of thing. Opening a restuarant was her idea. After convincing her husband to pivot away from his plan to become a realtor, Lily's dad (Kathy's grandfather) found the location on Kearny Street, almost at Columbus, that became House of Nanking. With no experience running a business, let alone a restaurant, the Fangs opened in 1988. When they first welcomed diners, Peter was cooking traditional Shanghainese food, something fairly new to San Francisco at the time. Peter saw right away that they needed to make food for more than the 10 or so folks who knew their cuisine. He saw how incredible the locally grown and raised food in Northern California was, and soon sought to incorporate those ingredients into his dishes. One example was replacing the pork in a bun (bao) with fresh zucchinis and peas, to be accompanied by a side of peanut sauce. It was an instant hit. If Lily is the risk-taker of the couple, Peter is the creative force. From a young age, in a family with four kids total, he was always interested in food. He read cookbooks and watched his mom closely while she made food. She was always one to put her own spin on things, and that carried through to her son many years later. Though he obviously never fully pursued it, Peter did dabble in real estate. But between that and opening his restaurant, he had little time for administrative work. His young daughter, Kathy, started answering his calls when she was six. She repeated his requested message verbatim, doing her best to sound like an answering machine (remember those?). Kathy is pretty sure he never sold a single house. Success for House of Nanking wasn't immediate. After some time, Peter realized he needed to pivot away from Shanghainese food. But they needed some luck, too. And they got it when Peter Kaufman, the son of moviemaker Phillip Kaufman, showed up outside the restaurant with the daughter of famed Chinese actress Bai Yang, who lived in Shanghai. The daughter insisted that they try the restaurant because it smelled "like home." Peter Kaufman loved the food Peter Fang had made him so much that he told his dad, who soon came back with food critic Patty Unterman. Unterman's review of House of Nanking appeared in the Sunday paper—the Bible for folks in the days before the internet. That review appeared next to a column about a little place called French Laundry. Both restaurants got three stars—but their affordability dollar signs were dramatically different. The next day of service at House of Nanking saw the first of its now trademark long lines to get in. We turn at this point in the conversation to talk about Kathy and her life. From her earliest memories, she recalls just being in her parents' restaurant all the time. It was an exciting time in San Francisco—the late Eighties/early Nineties. Broadway and its liveliness were basically next door. Life was colorful for young Kathy. She knew her life was atypical. "Sometimes I wish I could (be like the other kids and) go to sleep at a decent time," she says looking back. She sometimes slept in the restaurant. But she also go to eat at North Beach restaurants with her parents after they closed up their own eatery for the night. I ask Kathy to name drop names of places they went—New City (the best Alfredo) and Basta Pasta (veal piccata) stand out. Kathy didn't do quote-unquote normal kid things until middle school. Up to that point, it was all restaurant, all the time. One notable exception was seeing Chinese movies at the Great Star Theater, another thing kids didn't normally do. At my prompting, Kathy rattles off the San Francisco schools she went to. It starts with Jefferson Elementary. Then she went to Convent of the Sacred Heart for middle school and high school. Around the time she started middle school, as noted earlier, her life changed. She spent less and less time at the restaurant and more time doing homework. She saw her parents much less in this era, too. But she did get to see her dad when he'd pick her up from school. They'd almost always go eat in Chinatown after that. Those meals formed the foundation of a strong father-daughter relationship for Kathy and Peter. We end Part 1 with Kathy sharing all the sports she played throughout her school days. In varsity volleyball, playing back row, she had a "killer serve that no one could return." Check back Thursday for Part 2 with Kathy Fang. We recorded this episode at House of Nanking in Chinatown in December 2025. Photography by Dan Hernandez

Welcome to Art is Awesome, the show where we talk with an artist or art worker with a connection to the San Francisco Bay Area. Today, Emily chats with Christine Wong Yap, a visual artist working in printmaking, social practice, and community-based art.Christine discusses her latest project "Bay Windows/Ventanas," a trilingual public art installation featuring lanterns created with Chinese-speaking women in Chinatown and Spanish-speaking women in the Mission District. The lanterns, displayed at five locations through March 11th, explore themes of mental health, belonging, and immigrant experiences through traditional paper-cutting techniques.About Artist Christine Wong Yap:Christine Wong Yap is a visual artist and social practitioner who works in community engagement, drawing, printmaking, publishing, textiles, and public art. Through her hyperlocal participatory research projects, she gathers and amplifies grassroots perspectives on belonging, resilience, and mental well being. Last year, she received a a Creative Power Award from the Walter & Elise Haas Foundation and Creative Capital Award. She has served as Neighborhood Visiting Artist at Stanford University (Stanford, CA) and Creative Citizenship Fellow at the California College of the Arts (San Francisco, CA). She has developed projects with the Chinese Culture Center of San Francisco, For Freedoms, the Library Foundation of Los Angeles, the Othering and Belonging Institute at UC Berkeley, Times Square Arts, and the Wellcome Trust, among others. She holds a BFA and MFA in printmaking from the California College of the Arts. She was born and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area, where she has lived since spending a decade in New York City from 2010 to 2021.Visit Christine's Website:  ChristineWongYap.comFollow Christine on Instagram:  @ChristineWongYapFor more about Christine's Bay Windows project and upcoming scavenger hunt CLICK HERETo learn about The Creative Capital Award CLICK HERE--About Podcast Host Emily Wilson:Emily a writer in San Francisco, with work in outlets including Hyperallergic, Artforum, 48 Hills, the Daily Beast, California Magazine, Latino USA, and Women's Media Center. She often writes about the arts. For years, she taught adults getting their high school diplomas at City College of San Francisco.Follow Emily on Instagram: @PureEWilFollow Art Is Awesome on Instagram: @ArtIsAwesome_Podcast--CREDITS:Art Is Awesome is Hosted, Created & Executive Produced by Emily Wilson. Theme Music "Loopster" Courtesy of Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 LicenseThe Podcast is Co-Produced, Developed & Edited by Charlene Goto of @GoToProductions. For more info, visit Go-ToProductions.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Send us a texthttps://www.bookclues.comCare about wildlife conservation, China-Africa politics, religious freedom, and character-driven storytelling with real stakes, this conversation is for you. An interview with author David Pinault on his real world fiction bookEarth Dragon RunA Spiritual EntertainmentIgnatius PressA quiet librarian gets pushed out, grabs a stuffed monkey, and walks straight into the underbelly of our global moment. We dive into Earth Dragon Run, a propulsive novel that uses one endangered creature—the pangolin—to map the hidden circuitry of animal trafficking, cyber scams, and state-backed extraction across Africa and Asia. What starts as a quirky quest becomes a moral investigation: How do you keep your soul when markets price everything and protect nothing?We follow Danny Quirk, a 70-year-old with more books than friends, and Minnie Meixing, a Hong Kong student-turned-refugee who channels her courage into wildlife rescue near the China border and later in South Africa. Their paths illuminate hard truths: demand for pangolin scales in traditional medicine, snares that silently kill in the bush, and mines where “cost optimization” erases worker safety and scars the land. Along the way we unpack Cardinal Zen's witness, the Vatican's uneasy deal with Beijing, and why younger Chinese volunteers abroad quietly defy cruelty even as the Party tightens its grip.The conversation moves from San Francisco's Chinatown to Hong Kong marches, from snare sweeps near Kruger to casino-linked cyber scam hubs in Cambodia. We meet characters inspired by real encounters—Afrikaner farmers, Zimbabwean migrants, mixed patrol teams—whose cooperation in the bush cuts through propaganda. We also set Catholic tradition beside Jain nonviolence to ask what genuine compassion demands now: not slogans, but practices that shield the vulnerable. And yes, we talk Latin, old prayers, and the armor of God—because spiritual formation isn't nostalgia; it's training for a world that fights back.Find out more about Professor Pinault other books  https://ignatius.com/authors/david-pinault/

Moon Knight's path to self-acceptance has never been clean... or quiet. In this “WAY? Here!” chapter, Marc Spector confronts his Dissociative Identity Disorder head-on, burns vampires off rooftops, cuts dangerous deals in Chinatown, and suffers the devastating loss of Hunter's Moon. And if that ain't bad enough: a brutal two-on-one against Nemean and Grand Mal.   Bonus Episodes can be found at Patreon.com/HSPP Sign up now!

Momofuku Ando is the father of Instant Ramen. Feeding Japan after the war. But how do you get Americans to eat it? Dave Young: Welcome to The Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom-and-pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today’s episode, a word from our sponsor, which is … well, it’s us, but we’re highlighting ads we’ve written and produced for our clients. So here’s one of those. [AirVantage Heating & Cooling Ad] Dave Young: Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast. I’m Dave Young. Stephen Semple’s right there standing by, and he just told me what we’re going to be talking about and, man, it took me back to college days. In fact, I was looking at photos over the weekend. I have some photos of when I was in college, and this is way back 20 years before the turn of the century, to tell you how long ago this is. Stephen Semple: I hate how you put it that way. Dave Young: This is 20 years before the turn of the century. That’s a lifetime ago. But there were days in college where it’s like, “Well, gosh, Mom and Dad haven’t sent me any money and I haven’t gotten the job that I told myself I’d get,” so you go to the store, and what do you find? It’s either ramen or, if you want an upgrade, Cup O’ Noodles. And the Cup O’ Noodles, as everyone that’s ever been poor knows, is a noodle soup in a cup, and you take the lid off, put some water in it, throw it in the microwave, voila. Am I right? Is that what we’re talking about, or is this some new form? Stephen Semple: No, no, that’s what we’re talking about. That’s what we’re talking about, not some new Tesla called Cup O’ Noodles. No, no, you’re right, but I want you to hold onto that thought of it as being an upgrade from ramen, because we’re going to revisit that. Dave Young: Not an upgrade? Stephen Semple: We’re going to revisit that whole idea, because that’s brilliant. It was started in the 1950s and it was a new idea then, but today there’s over a hundred billion servings of instant noodles eaten every year. And it’s estimated that Cup O’ Noodles sells between 18 and 25 billion servings a year. It’s inside of a larger organization, so it’s hard to know exactly, but that’s the estimates I’ve come across. Dave Young: Dude, that’s like feeding the planet three times in one day. Stephen Semple: Right? Isn’t that crazy? Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: So, empire? Yeah. Dave Young: Yeah. There’s some guy sitting on top of that noodle money somewhere, and I guess we’re going to hear the story. Stephen Semple: So in the 1950s in the United States, food is boring. Eating out was like literally going to diners, and international food really only existed in big cities that had Chinatowns. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: And, following World War II, there was actually a strong anti-Asian feeling in the United States. Meanwhile, back in Osaka, Japan, there’s a food crisis after the war because basically Japan has been decimated, and bread is being distributed by the U.S. and it’s really plentiful, but people wanted more traditional meals. Dave Young: They’re not used to bread. Stephen Semple: Right. It’s not part of what they normally eat. So Momofuku Ando is a 48-year-old businessperson. He’s lost his company. He went to jail for tax evasion. All sorts of bad things went on, but he’s out of jail and he’s looking to start his new business, and he sees people lined up for ramen, so there is a ramen tie in here. Dave Young: There you go, yeah. Just to be fair, I wasn’t talking about ramen from a store or from a vendor. I’m talking about those little bricks of Top Ramen. Stephen Semple: Yeah, yeah. Hold onto that. Hold onto that thought. We are going to come back to that, yes. So, ramen was created when noodles basically came over from China, and 1910 is the earliest record we could find of a ramen shop in Japan, so it looked like it was around 1910. Dave Young: Yep. The Japanese didn’t have noodles till 1910? Stephen Semple: They didn’t have the type of noodles in ramen, yes. Dave Young: Okay. See, I mean, we could go a whole nother direction on this if you wanted to, in the Japanese industrialization of them going around the world and bringing all kinds of new technology back to Japan in the early 1900s. Stephen Semple: Yes. Dave Young: Turns out, including noodle technology. Stephen Semple: Including noodle technology, and we forget how closed Japan was. Dave Young: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Stephen Semple: Basically, the only thing that was imported was silk. Right? That was about it. Very, very closed economy, and then yes, lots of … And when things changed in Japan, boy, they changed in a hurry. It went from basically medieval to industrial in like, that. It was crazy. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: Yeah. Dave Young: I mean, you and I are both whiskey fans, and we know that the story of Japanese whiskey is the same story. The Japanese guy goes to Scotland, falls in love with Scotch whiskey, figures out how to make it, comes back to Japan and builds the Japanese whiskey industry. Stephen Semple: Yeah. Dave Young: Let’s go back to noodles. I’m sorry. I will distract us all day long. Stephen Semple: No, but it is an interesting thing. Now, the main drawback to ramen is it’s hard to make at home. The noodles need to be fresh. They’re hand-cut. They’ve got to come from shops. And so what Momofuku decides is he wants to make a ramen product that is tasty, non-perishable, easy to make, affordable, and ready in five minutes with hot water. Dave Young: Wow. Stephen Semple: That’s his goal. Dave Young: That’s a goal. Stephen Semple: On top of that, he has no culinary training. So he invests every last penny into this, because he needs something he can put into a grocery store as well on the non-perishable, because there’s few refrigerators or ovens in Japan at this time. Dave Young: Okay, yeah. Stephen Semple: And the key is the broth, and it can take days to make the broth. So here was his question. If everyone loves ramen, why is it so hard to make? And so he tries drying the noodles, then he gets the broth dried into the noodles, and he spends several years working on this and nothing seems to work. And one day, he notices his wife tempura-frying food and the batter dehydrates immediately the moment it hits the oil, because what does oil do? Removes water. So now what he does is he drops the noodle into this high-heat oil, and it creates a shell. He then takes fresh noodles, cooks them in the broth until it’s saturated, drops it into the oil, and the water is cooked out. It works. Dave Young: Wow. Stephen Semple: It works. He’s now got this dried noodle. Now he needs to get it in the store. So he starts with chicken ramen, and that’s more expensive. It’s about six times the price of regular ramen, but what he finds is people are willing to pay for the convenience. So in 1961, it hits stores in Osaka and it sells like crazy, and it’s called Magic Ramen by customers. Dave Young: Magic Ramen. I like that. Stephen Semple: Yeah, and he gets to the point where he borrows a million yen to open a factory. In the first year they’re doing 13 million packages, and the second year, 50 million packages a year. Now, to put that in perspective, 50 million packages a year, the TV dinners at that time is one half the number of sales of the amount of ramen that they’re selling in Japan, of this instant ramen. Dave Young: Wow. Okay. Stephen Semple: It’s 1962, and this idea is getting very copied. There’s now 70 companies in the space in Japan in a few short years. And some are also cheaper and the economy in Japan is still recovering, so Momofuku decides he’s going to spend a couple of million bucks and he’s going to bring this product to the United States. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: Now, the timing is really bad. In 1968, there’s a hoax letter written to the New England Journal of Medicine by Dr. Kwok that MSG is unsafe and The New York Times reports on it, and this becomes a placebo effect on all Chinese food. Dave Young: What year was this? Stephen Semple: ’68. Dave Young: ’68, okay. Stephen Semple: The letter was written on a bet by Dr. Howard Steele, who was a pediatric who was having a hard time getting published, and there was this bet that, “Oh, I bet you if you wrote something this way, it would get published,” so he creates this hoax and it gets published. Dave Young: And people still believe it? Stephen Semple: Yeah. He created this fake research facility with a made-up name, and it’s amazing. Sounds kinda familiar for the world we’re in today, and MSG is declared unsafe for years later. Dave Young: Well, my wife thinks MSG doesn’t agree with her. Stephen Semple: Well, some people, it may not. Dave Young: Maybe it doesn’t, but I don’t know. Stephen Semple: But again, that could be just a food intolerance, right? Dave Young: You don’t know, yeah. Stephen Semple: Yeah. So Momofuku travels to the United States. Here’s one of the things he figures out. He runs into a bit of a challenge with the U.S. market. He realizes he needs to do sampling, because it became successful in Japan because it was a familiar food that became convenient, right? So it was only one step away, a familiar food that became convenient. It was not a familiar food in the United States, so he decided he needed to do sampling, so he goes over to the U.S., sets up sampling in grocery stores. This anti-Asia movement is so strong, people won’t even try it. It’s too new. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: Won’t even try it. Dave Young: And don’t know what ramen is. Stephen Semple: Right. So when he’s done, he’s got all this product left over and he decides, “I’m not going to take this product back to Japan,” so he leaves it for the staff, but what he notices is the staff are eating it, but very differently. Dave Young: Stay tuned. We’re going to wrap up this story and tell you how to apply this lesson to your business right after this. [Using Stories to Sell Ad] Dave Young: Let’s pick up our story where we left off, and trust me, you haven’t missed a thing. Stephen Semple: So when he’s done, he’s got all this product left over and he decides, “I’m not going to take this product back to Japan,” so he leaves it for the staff, but what he notices is the staff are eating it, but very differently. What he discovers is the staff break up the noodles, and put it in a coffee cup and pour in the hot water, and eat it in the break room. The recipe called for these large noodles to be put in a pot and then you transferred the pot to a bowl. Dave Young: Oh. Okay, yeah. Stephen Semple: So your Cup O’ Noodles, you know when you’re talking about the bricks of ramen? All it is is a brick of ramen, broken up into little bits. Dave Young: Sure. Well, I used to make it. I didn’t like the long noodles, so I would do the same thing just instinctively, because I’m an American from the Midwest. Stephen Semple: Yeah. What he also observed in all of this was that people called it noodles. Yeah. So they took the ramen, broke it up in little bits, put it in a coffee cup, poured in hot water and called it noodles. Dave Young: Noodles. I mean, that’s what Mom made for us when we weren’t feeling so good, right? It was some chicken noodle soup. Stephen Semple: Right. So now we have the familiar, remember? Dave Young: Yes. Stephen Semple: Successful in Japan because it was the familiar made convenient. Now we had the familiar. How do you make it convenient? He goes back to Japan, and he comes up with the idea of a styrofoam cup that you put it in. He added some vegetables, which made it a complete meal. Now, the Asian food scare was still there, but it’s not Asian food any longer, it’s a cup of noodles. Dave Young: Yeah. Brilliant. Stephen Semple: And he stopped calling it ramen. He called it a cup of noodles. And actually, originally it was called Cup Noodle and in 1973 they added the O’, so now it was Cup O’ Noodles. Dave Young: So, I mean, you could start riots in the U.S. There could be millions of idiots, that they’re going to be upset now that they were fooled into eating ramen instead of noodles. Stephen Semple: Well, I’m safely here in Canada. This is your problem to deal with. Dave Young: Yeah? I think you should put some kind of warning label on this episode. Stephen Semple: “Warning, may cause riots.” I like it. We may do that. We may do that. Dave Young: Yeah. “We’re just a victim of Big Ramen.” Stephen Semple: Yeah. Yeah. It’s one more unwanted foreign influence in the United States. Dave Young: Uh-huh. Stephen Semple: Today, the estimate is Cup O’ Noodles is like an $8 billion business, but what I found that was so interesting about this was his innovation all came from observation. Dave Young: Yes. Stephen Semple: He observed that people in Japan were eating ramen but couldn’t eat it at home for a bunch of reasons, so he wanted to make this community thing for home. He observed his wife with the tempura batter, which made for the breakthrough, had this huge success in Japan. But when he came to the United States, it was the whole thing of noticing the people eating it were doing it differently. They’re breaking it up, putting it in a cup, adding hot water. Now, there’s a business innovation lesson here but there’s a marketing lesson as well, because our greatest asset as marketers is observation of people. Dave Young: Exactly. Stephen Semple: It’s observing how people think, observing how people feel, observing how they act, observing how they react to things, and great marketing comes from observation. So does great innovation. Great innovation is seeing something on the right and pulling it over to the left. What I loved was this moment where he suddenly realized, “Wait a minute, ramen was successful in Japan because we took the familiar and made it convenient.” And then once people were looking at it like a soup, he was like, “Ooh, we make this more like a soup. We’re now taking the familiar and making it convenient, rather than making it a new food,” and I thought that was an unbelievably amazing observation. Dave Young: It is. And I think sometimes we get our heads into the books or the business or dealing with the oh, my God, the million little problems that just pop up in front of us every day, and we don’t step back to see the big picture. We don’t step back to observe. Stephen Semple: Well, we lose sight of what’s the customer actually thinking, and really that’s all that matters is what’s the customer thinking, right? What’s in their head? What’s going on in their world? How are they going to react to these things? And the more you understand that, the more you understand the human being on the other side of the … All ideas look great when you’re sitting in a boardroom with four white walls, a dropped ceiling and a spreadsheet. You can make anything work. The real thing is, how about the human being on the other side of that equation? That’s what matters. That’s what matters. Dave Young: I don’t want this to sound … Oh, I don’t care. I don’t care how this sounds. Stephen Semple: We’re already starting a riot, Dave. Go for it. Dave Young: Sometimes I get … I don’t use ChatGPT to write very much, but I will hand it something I’ve written and say, “Dumb it down.” Stephen Semple: Yes. Dave Young: “Make the sentences shorter, make this understandable to a sixth grader,” and it does a pretty decent job of helping me figure that out. Stephen Semple: For sure. Dave Young: It’s not that I’m assuming that people are stupid, but there are some people. Think about this. This is touching on MAGA territory here, but if you think about how smart the average person is, realize that half of the people are less smart than that. When you have a cup of ramen and a word that nobody’s heard, ramen, nobody knew what ramen was in the United States in the 1960s or ’70s. Stephen Semple: No, they didn’t. Dave Young: But they all knew what a noodle is. Stephen Semple: Noodle was. Yes. Dave Young: Grandma’s made us noodles forever. We like noodles. We like them in casseroles. We like them in stroganoff. That’s just beef and noodles, and noodle soup. And so if you change the word ramen, you get over yourself, you get over the fact that, “Well, people need to understand that ramen is not quite the same,” no, no, no, no, no. These are noodles. Stephen Semple: Just call it a noodle. Dave Young: Just call it a noodle. Stephen Semple: And that’s what was brilliant in the name, Cup O’ Noodles. Dave Young: Yeah. I think there are business owners and marketers that feel like the answer is to educate people. Stephen Semple: It never is. Dave Young: Never is. That hardly ever works. You need to associate your product with something they already know and understand. Stephen Semple: Attach the unfamiliar to the familiar, and we’ve talked about that a number of times in this podcast. But one of my favorite business books is Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath, and one of the things that they talk about is there’s six things that make a message sticky, and one of them is simple. Simple, I have a different take. I hate the term, dumbing things down. I like instead, let’s simplify it, because when a message is simple, it’s easier for everyone to absorb. It actually takes less brainpower to figure it out, and let’s face it. I’m in a world today where I’m competing with 5,000 messages a day. If it’s complicated and it takes time, it’s not that a person’s lazy, it’s not that they’re dumb. It’s, look, there’s just too much coming at them. The brain is like, “I don’t have time for that, because I got too much stuff coming at me.” So the more you can simplify it down, connect it, make it concrete, attach the unfamiliar to the familiar, the easier the brain just goes, “I get that. I understand it.” We need to make it easy because we’re competing with so much. Dave Young: No, I agree. Stephen Semple: As soon as you go down this path of I got to educate the consumer, give me a break, because I’m supposed to be educated on the food I eat, the air I breathe, the water I drink, the education, how I teach my kids, my health, my finances, my car, my air conditioning. Dude, I don’t have enough time to get educated, all that stuff. I have a busy life, and what I want to do is watch the hockey game at night. Dave Young: I agree. I agree 100% with you. And I’ll add this. There are still people that are stupid that eat three times a day. Stephen Semple: Yes, there are. There are. Dave Young: And they eat three times a day and want a Cup O’ Noodles. Stephen Semple: Absolutely. Absolutely. Dave Young: The simplification works in both directions, right? Stephen Semple: That’s the key. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: That’s the key. Dave Young: That’s why it works so well. Stephen Semple: Right, because it wins you actually both ends of the spectrum. What it does is wins you everyone. Dave Young: Yeah. Stephen Semple: Everyone. It wins you everyone. That’s the point I want to make. Dave Young: If the sixth grader can understand it, so can the PhD. Stephen Semple: Correct. Well, and not only that. You’ll attract the attention of the PhD because they too only have so much time. Dave Young: Yeah. Simplify, simplify. Cool. Stephen Semple: This was fun. So here’s the interesting thing, Dave, is going back to your early statement of, “Oh, I didn’t eat ramen, I ate a Cup O’ Noodles.” Dude, you eat ramen. Dave Young: Now you know. You know, I never thought that the ramen had enough carbs in it, so I always crumbled a package of crackers in as well, to make it kind of a paste. Sometimes there’s just not enough carbs in it, so you just add some potato flakes. It thickens right up. Yeah, I was a master at that. Stephen Semple: You there were a connoisseur. Dave Young: You can use it as grout. Thank you for bringing us the story of Cup O’ Noodles, Stephen. Stephen Semple: We’re going to start a riot. Thanks, David. Dave Young: Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app, and leave us a big, fat, juicy five-star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. And if you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute empire-building session, you can do it at empirebuildingprogram.com.

THE SECRET AGENT director Kleber Mendonça Filho joins hosts Josh Olson and Joe Dante to break down the movies that made him! Kleber is fresh off winning this year's Golden Globe for Best Foreign Language Film for THE SECRET AGENT this weekend. His film's star, Wagner Moura, also took home a Globe for Best Actor in a Motion Picture – Drama. Show Notes: Movies Referenced In This Episode Small Change (1976) The Secret Agent (2025) Bacurau (2019) *Walkabout (1973) *Wake in Fright (1971) The Right Stuff (1983) Don't Look Now (1973) Performance (1970) The Witches (1990) Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) Superman (1978) Star Wars (1977) Piranha (1978) *Fitzcarraldo (1982) Burden of Dreams (1982) Apocalypse Now (1979) The Blues Brothers (1980) Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans (2009) Paris, Texas (1984) *The Beguiled (1971) The Beguiled (2017) Escape From Alcatraz (1979) *The Long Goodbye (1973) *Punch-Drunk Love (2002) McCabe and Mrs. Miller (1971) MASH (1970) Chinatown (1974) Boogie Nights (1997) Magnolia (1999) The Wedding Singer (1998) Happy Gilmore (1995) Assault on Precinct 13 (1975) Escape to Witch Mountain (1975) LA Plays Itself (2003) Pictures of Ghosts (2023) *Twenty Years Later (1984) The Big Shave (1967) The Longest Day (1962) Cleopatra (1963) Halloween (1978) La Jetée (1962) Green Vinyl (2004) *Gremlins (1984) *The Host (2006) E.T. The Extra-terrestrial (1982) Poltergeist (1982) The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974) Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) *The Fly (1986) *Do The Right Thing (1989) Jungle Fever (1991) Other Notable Items Our Patreon! The Hollywood Food Coalition Francois Truffaut Wagner Moura Udo Kier The Lord of the Rings franchise Pedro Pascal Enzo Nunes Nicholas Roeg Ted Kotcheff Philip Kaufman The Criterion Collection TFH Guru Roger Corman Klaus Kinski Werner Herzog Nicolas Cage The Cologne Film Festival The French new wave Don Siegel Sofia Coppola Clint Eastwood Geraldine Page Paul Thomas Anderson Robert Altman Elliott Gould Jack Davis Mad Magazine Mark Rydell Roman Polanski Adam Sandler The Cannes Film Festival Columbia Pictures Philip Seymour Hoffman Robert Elswitt Emily Watson John Carpenter Kim Richards Scream franchise Eduardo Coutinho  João Pedro Teixeira Martin Scorsese The Vietnam War Bong Joon Ho Jerry Goldsmith Steven Spielberg Tobe Hooper Dick Miller Polly Holliday Phoebe Cates David Cronenberg Spike LeeThis list is also available on Movies Unlimited. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episode 401: At the start of the twentieth century, Vancouver, B.C., was a fast-growing Pacific port. Most residents were white settlers of British or European descent, but Chinese and Japanese communities were already well established and growing. They lived, worked, and built businesses in neighbourhoods like Chinatown and Powell Street, playing a central role in the city's economy while being denied political rights and social acceptance. By 1907, economic anxiety and racial resentment had hardened into open hostility. Asian workers were blamed for falling wages and job insecurity, a message repeated by newspapers, politicians, and organized exclusionary groups. The riots that followed on September 7 were not sudden outbursts, but the result of years of public rhetoric that treated entire communities as threats. This episode examines how those ideas gave rise to violence on Vancouver's streets. Sources:The 1907 Racist Riots – Union Zindabad!The Asiatic Exclusion League Riot, 1907 — Published by BC Labour Heritage CentreThe Vancouver Anti-Asian RiotsCauses of the 1907 anti-Asian riots :The Lessons of the Anti-Asiatic Riot"Images" and "Issues" : the portrayal of Asians in the Vancouver Daily Province and the Vancouver Daily World, 1907 to 1908Anti-Asian Riots of 1907 - British Columbia - An Untold HistoryMayor Ken SimDavid LamChinese Immigration ActChinese Head Tax in Canada1907 Vancouver anti-Asian riotsAsian Labour History in British ColumbiaA White Man's Province by Patricia Roy | Internet ArchiveW.L. Mackenzie King's 1907 Report on Japanese Losses in Vancouver RiotsW.L. Mackenzie King's 1907 Report on Chinese Losses in Vancouver RiotsThe History of Canada Series: Trouble on Main Street: Mackenzie King Reason Race And The 1907 Vancouver Riots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Julia and Steve welcome guest host Sam Adams to deconstruct the aggravating, yet strangely charming, table tennis phenom on the make that is Marty Supreme. Played with “BDE off-the-charts” (Steve's words) by Timothée Chalamet, the unceasingly shameless hustler may just be an avatar for our age. Speaking of avatars, we can't avoid discussing Avatar: Fire and Ash, the latest installment of James Cameron's immersive mega-franchise. Once again, the big blue folks peopling Pandora drew boku bucks at the box office… but do the Avatar films have any “cultural impact”? And what does “cultural impact” even mean? New Yorker staff writer Michael Schulman steps into the cultural cage match to debate this long-simmering internet argument. On this week's bonus episode for Slate Plus subscribers, the hosts take up a listener question about “cultural bran muffins,” the bits of culture you know would be good for you if only you could get them down. The hosts confess their bran secrets. Endorsements Steve: The essay "Two Pins and a Lollipop" about Judy Garland by Bee Wilson in the London Review of Books. Sam: The album Penthouse by the band Luna, particularly the song  "Chinatown." Julia: Slate's beloved annual tradition Movie Club which for its 2025 edition gathers film critics Bilge Ebiri, Alison Wilmore, Justin Chang, and our very own Dana Stevens for a rollicking exchange about the year in film. --- Email us your thoughts at culturefest@slate.com.  Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch. Production assistance by Daniel Hirsch. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Spike and the guys discuss everything from holiday travel adventures, dream cars, and automotive news. Highlights include Zuckerman's Mexico BMW trip, Spike and Lieberman's passionate Bentley Bentayga review, and a fascinating deep dive into the Lamborghini Diablo's controversial design history. ______________________________________________

This week, Julia and Steve welcome guest host Sam Adams to deconstruct the aggravating, yet strangely charming, table tennis phenom on the make that is Marty Supreme. Played with “BDE off-the-charts” (Steve's words) by Timothée Chalamet, the unceasingly shameless hustler may just be an avatar for our age. Speaking of avatars, we can't avoid discussing Avatar: Fire and Ash, the latest installment of James Cameron's immersive mega-franchise. Once again, the big blue folks peopling Pandora drew boku bucks at the box office… but do the Avatar films have any “cultural impact”? And what does “cultural impact” even mean? New Yorker staff writer Michael Schulman steps into the cultural cage match to debate this long-simmering internet argument. On this week's bonus episode for Slate Plus subscribers, the hosts take up a listener question about “cultural bran muffins,” the bits of culture you know would be good for you if only you could get them down. The hosts confess their bran secrets. Endorsements Steve: The essay "Two Pins and a Lollipop" about Judy Garland by Bee Wilson in the London Review of Books. Sam: The album Penthouse by the band Luna, particularly the song  "Chinatown." Julia: Slate's beloved annual tradition Movie Club which for its 2025 edition gathers film critics Bilge Ebiri, Alison Wilmore, Justin Chang, and our very own Dana Stevens for a rollicking exchange about the year in film. --- Email us your thoughts at culturefest@slate.com.  Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch. Production assistance by Daniel Hirsch. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sam Lawrence is the chef-owner of Bridges, an ambitious and stylish restaurant on the edge of Manhattan's Chinatown. Formerly the culinary director of Ignacio Mattos's restaurant group, he opened Bridges in 2025. It won a Michelin star in its first year. Today on the show, Sam shares about bringing Bridges to life, Michelin recognition, and his plans for year two of the restaurant.  Before that, Matt has a great conversation with Fatima Popal. Fatima is the chief operating and financial officer of the Popal Group, a family-owned hospitality business based in Washington, DC, that is behind beloved restaurants like Lapis, Pascual, Lutèce, and Maison Bar à Vins. For this Resy Generations interview, we talk about what it's like running a family restaurant business, and what it's like to sit down for dinner with your family (and coworkers).   The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers – not of Resy—and do not constitute professional advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we delve into the intricate world of the Chicago Outfit’s informants, featuring insights from my late friend, Cam Robinson, and Paul Whitcomb, a well-respected expert on the mob. This special compilation draws from past interviews and shorts that once highlighted various informants who operated during the notorious 1980s era of organized crime in Chicago. Through a series of concise segments, we explore the lives of key players who chose to turn against the Outfit, revealing the complex motivations and consequences of their decisions. We kick things off by revisiting the tale of Paul “Peanuts” Pansko, an influential figure leading the Polish faction of the Outfit. Pansko's criminal activities, including a racetrack heist, not only placed him in dangerous territory but also set into motion a chain of events that would later link to the infamous Family Secrets trial. It's during this journey that we outline how interconnected the informants’ narratives are, showcasing how Pansko’s actions inadvertently unraveled parts of the organization.   The discussion shifts to more dramatic stories, including Mario Rainone. Rainone's infamous decision to cooperate with the authorities opened the door to significant revelations about Lenny Patrick, one of the highest-ranking Outfit members to switch sides. Rainone's tapes ultimately led to the dismantling of major sections of the Outfit’s operations, including political connections that had long shielded them from legal repercussions.   We also explore the tale of Ken “Tokyo Joe” Eto, a Japanese mobster who thrived within the Outfit’s ranks. His attempts at self-preservation after surviving an assassination effort highlighted the stark realities faced by those who navigated the perilous landscape of organized crime. As he eventually became a witness for the prosecution, Eto’s insights illuminated the internal workings of one of Chicago’s most feared organizations. The episode further examines dramatic betrayals and deadly encounters that shaped the Outfit’s legacy. From the chilling events surrounding the murders of the Spilotro brothers, orchestrated by their own associates for reasons steeped in loyalty and betrayal, to the grim fate that met informants like Al Toco and the impact of domestic discord on organized crime, each tale is a window into the bleak realities faced by both mobsters and informants alike. As we round out the episode, we reflect on the cultural dynamics surrounding informants, particularly how personal relationships and family ties heavily influenced their decisions to cooperate. It becomes clear through the interviews that while fear of retribution often compels loyalty, the specter of betrayal looms large within the mob. This multifaceted examination blends personal stories with historical context, providing a deeper understanding of the Chicago Outfit’s complexity and its operatives. Join us in this retrospective journey through the shadows of organized crime as we pay homage to those who bravely shared their stories, revealing the inner workings of a criminal empire that continues to fascinate and terrify in equal measure. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00] Well, hey, guys, after listening to Bob Cooley, one of the more damaging sources and witness and informant to the Chicago Outfit outside of the Calabrese family, [0:13] Nick and his nephew, Frank Jr., I got the rest of the Chicago Outfit informants on tap here. No, not really. They’re not coming in. But I did do a story. I did a series of shorts a few years, or I don’t know, two or three years ago, maybe. [0:32] I interviewed my late friend, Cam Robinson, rest in peace, Cam. So you get to hear from him again. And Paul Whitcomb, who is a Chicago outfit expert, he’s been on this. They used to have some kind of a round table show up there. I don’t know if they still have it or not with the Seiferts. But anyhow, I got these guys to sit down with me and talk about all the different informants in Chicago during the, it was during the 80s. So this is just kind of a series of shorts that I put up before. They’re six or eight minutes long, I think, each one of them, that they talk about different informants. This kind of threw it together as another little bonus episode we’ve done. And I went to Chicago, if you notice, after Johnny Russo, which I apologize for in a way, I don’t know. I mean, the guy’s got some crazy-ass stories, doesn’t he? Who am I to say that he didn’t do it? But most people know that he didn’t do most of that stuff. Anyhow, so I threw up another Chicago right away about the guy that had the race wire that they killed, James Reagan. [1:38] Then i had this interview that i’d been doing during those last couple weeks with bob cooley who’s appeared uh out of nowhere and he’ll maybe see him on some other shows now he’s he’s wanting to do shows he tells me so after hearing bob cooley talk i thought well i’m doing do one more i want to just throw it up as an extra uh from some of my old chicago outfit stuff and that’ll finish me off on the Chicago outfit for a while. I hadn’t, I hadn’t been in Chicago, uh, doing shows about Chicago for quite a while. And, and I didn’t want to, uh, neglect you guys. You know, I get a lot of books written about New York and I’ve got all these authors that are wanting to do these books about New York. Uh, not so much about Chicago. So if you got anybody that, you know, wants to, got a book and wants to come on the show, uh, talking about the outfit, why steer them to me. So anyhow, just sit back and relax and enjoy. [2:37] My late, great friend, Cam Robinson. One more look at Cam, for those of you who remember him, and Paul Whitcomb. And we’re going to talk about famous snitches from Chicago. Thanks, guys. Well, let’s move along now to, this is kind of interesting, Paul Peanuts Panczko, who was the leader of the Polish branch of the outfield. Is that what you would call Peanuts Panczko, the leader of the Polish branch? If the Polish branch is the Panczko family, which you could easily say there were three brothers, then yeah, that wouldn’t be right. We haven’t really done a show on them. I don’t know a whole lot about them other than they were released at all. So we said non-Italian, Peckerwood, as we call them at Kansas City, professional criminals who did a lot of business with different outfit people. And he did a robbery of a racetrack. I think it’s the Balmoral Racetrack. It’s the name of it. James Duke Basile and then Panczko was in trouble for that and he convinced Basile to come in and they did some talking remember anything about that situation, you know in a lot of ways you. [3:50] Panczko could be considered one of the first dominoes that eventually led to the Family Secrets trial. Panczko, as you said, led to Dookie Bazile, who they had done robberies together. Bazile led them to Scarpelli, who was a much higher guy. I mean, there’s debate, but he was, because there was a making ceremony at this time, but Scarpelli was pretty highly ranked. I mean, he was a known killer, and he was up there. He was in the wild bunch. But Scarpelli then did tell them about a lot of the things that Frank Calabrese had done. [4:28] He wasn’t known as well as Scarpelli had brought him up to be. And a lot of those things dominoed into what would eventually lead to family secrets years later. [4:42] Scarpelli, I think, did not know so much about Nick, but he did know about Frank. And so a lot of that information sort of filled in the gaps. And even though Frank Calabrese Jr. Led them led them to Nick They A lot of seeds were planted And can be traced back to Pianus Pansico Um. [5:01] So it is kind of an interesting line. Basile, he wore a wire on Scarpelli and not even talking about a lot of these things. It’s not the FBI knew about that. They were in a car together. Right. If I remember right, he even talked about a mob graveyard. They went up there and they found two or three bodies. One of them was connected. It wasn’t anybody really important, but one of them was connected to Harry Aleman. So it was a pretty important wearing of a wire on Scarpelli, who then came at himself for a while. And that’s what led to the family secrets. He talked about Frank Calabrese. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, that’s right. And some of those bodies in that graveyard were 10 years apart, which was interesting. I’ve got, it’s on the map that I created, but some of those bodies, there was years in between them. So it was something they were going back to and they believed that there were a lot of things there they did not find. Yeah, because they built a health care facility or something. They built some big building over where there would have been bodies. Right. Right. And the fascinating thing about this is Scarpelli, like, just like Cam said, this guy was a serious killer. He was a muscle builder. He was a terrifying guy. I mean, he had almost inhuman physical strength. Yeah. And when he flipped, he was completely debriefed by the FBI and the DOJ and then decided to try and change his mind. [6:27] But before he could do that He hung himself in the bathroom Of the Metropolitan Correctional Center With his hands behind his back And a bag over his head, Who was he in prison with? Who was he in MCC with, Paul? Was it anybody? He did happen to be in the MCC with the German at the time. He bound his hands behind his back and put a bag over his own head. He did. He did. And so the outfit continues to somehow persuade people to take their own lives rather than testify against them. [7:07] It’s a hell of a way to die by suicide it is by suicide at least they didn’t have arrows in his back, not as far as we know yeah it was terrible he cut his own head off I saw a cartoon once that the homicide guy liked to go ahead and maybe real suckle of suicide because then you could just walk away from it so there’s a dead body laying there with a bunch of arrows at his back and a homicide detective standing over him with a hand and pencil and says, hmm, suicide, huh? [7:44] Got the inside joke. It worked homicide. You see how those guys sometimes will try to make something into a suicide that probably is a homicide. On the other hand, we had one, we had a mob guy, he wasn’t really a mob associate, who had gone to Vegas. He lost a lot of money and they found his body in his car at the airport parking lot after coming back from Vegas and they found out later lost a lot of money and the car was parked up against the fence and he was shot in the head and there was no gun in the car you know found so just assume that somebody shot him in his head the car kept going and rolling up against the fence. [8:25] But this one detective, I remember Bob Pence is his name. He was dumb. And he started, he went back over and he dusted that car for prints again. And he got some more evidence out of it. And then he went back to the airport and he looked and started asking questions. And he found out later that somebody who had a pickup truck parked there had a week later, three or four days later, come back and got his truck. When he got home he found a pistol inside the bed of his truck and he called the airport or he called somebody turned it in Pinson found that pistol that was a pistol that that shot the guy so Pinson's theory was he was rolling along in his car he shot himself in the head and then he flipped that pistol out is with a reaction he flipped it out and went in the bed in that pickup and then it rolled on up against the fence and they ruled it a suicide wow damn that’s not that different than Scarpelli I mean the fbi to this day insists it was suicide yeah well, Oh, well, right. All right. Let’s move along to Mario. John, the arm. Rainone. [9:41] Is that correct, Cam? That yeah, that’s Rainone. Yeah. So tell us about that. I know we talked about this, you know, a little bit about this one. [9:50] This is kind of a funny one. He was he was sent to kill a building inspector. Raynaud was with the Grand Avenue crew and so he’s en route to kill this guy and this is one of those mob blunders and he sees a couple guys following him and it’s Rudy Fredo and Willie Messino and he recognizes him when he’s driving over there and it’s important to point out who these guys are, Cam, not to interrupt you Willie Messino, was the right hand man and bodyguard for Tony Accardo for 30 years I mean, he was serious, serious business. Rudy Frayto, you know, the chin, but Massino was serious news. If you saw Willie Massino, you knew he were in for trouble. Yeah, he wasn’t there as backup to do anything except clean up after Rainone, including Rainone. So Rainone saw the writing on the wall. He pulls up and he goes straight to the FBI. [10:54] And he informs, he talks to them and gives them his information. And later on, he sort of regrets doing so, denies that he ever did. Uh, there were, there were, uh, articles written about him. There’s a, there’s a Chicago Tribune writer, John Cass, and Ray Nolan had a back and forth with him writing letters. This is how these mob guys in Chicago operate, talking about, I’m, I ain’t no beefer. And, uh. Once he was out of prison in 2009, he was busted several more times. If you can believe it, he stayed in the criminal life. He was robbing a liquor store with another guy. And the guy he was robbing with, this is why I jump ahead a little bit, was a guy named Vincent Forliano. He claimed that he didn’t even know Fratto or Messino. These were guys he didn’t know, so he never would have informed against them. The guy he was robbing the liquor store with and he was committing other robberies with, Vincent Forliano, was Fredo’s son-in-law. [11:56] So he was committing robberies with a guy related to the guy, but he didn’t know who they were. And to say that somebody didn’t know, as Paul said, Willie Messino, is just ludicrous. Anybody in the criminal atmosphere, period, knew who Willie Messino was because you were probably paying money to it. to exist. And this is extremely important because Rainone, at the time this happened, Rainone cooperated long enough to record conversations with Lenny Patrick. That’s right. That’s right. And that set dominoes in place that would lead to the fall of the outfit. Even though he tried to take back his cooperation, to say he never cooperated, I’ve heard those tapes that were played in trials that I participated in, so I I know better. Uh, and that’s why they call him Mario flip flop Rainone because he, uh, would cooperate and uncooperate and then cooperate. But he is the one who got Lenny Patrick on the hook. Yeah. [13:00] Interesting, interesting. Let’s just continue on with this Lenny Patrick because we weren’t going to talk about him. That’s a good lead hand to talk about another, really one of the most important informants that year who testified. [13:13] Can you talk about the domino that led to the end? Rainone really, really flipped the domino that kicked over. Go ahead, Paul. Well, Lenny Patrick was the highest, and even to this day, remains the highest ranking member of the outfit to ever turn state’s evidence. The guy was a capo in all but name. He had been in charge of Rogers Park, the gambling. He was essentially the head of the Jewish arm of the mafia, kind of the Meyer Lansky figure of Chicago. And when the Lawndale neighborhood moved north to Rogers Park, he moved with them, and he had his own crew. He reported directly to Gus Alex, who was, of course, at the very top, and Sam Carlisi. And he was dealing with Marcello and Carlesi in a number of different outfit ventures, loan sharking. He personally had been staked by Carlesi with a quarter million in cash to put out on the street. And he was involved in extortions Bombings of theaters All these things directly at the command of Sam Carlisi Who was then the boss of bosses of the Chicago outfit So when Rainone got him on tape They set up what was the beginning of the end for the outfit And I think people need to understand who Gus Alex is also For people outside of Chicago Gus Alex was. [14:40] Basically, I guess you could call him the equivalent of maybe the consigliere in Chicago. When you look at Chicago, the triumvirate in the 70s, once a guy like Paul Ricca died and several major outfit leaders died in the early 70s. [14:58] Tony Accardo decided that the outfit would be led by himself, by Joy Iupa, and the political wing and all of the non-Italians and all of the grift and a lot of aspects would be led by Gus Alex. So he was essentially on the same level as Joey Iupa, and he was responsible for much more for things of greater import than Joey Iupa. I mean, controlling the political arm and all the payoffs and all of that is much, much more than the streets and the murders. So all the politics and all the anything that had to do was definitely fell under gus alex and he was part of a ruling triumvirate he was a non-italian part of a ruling triumvirate with iupa and uh acardo so he was the the leader top of the outfit and he had been for years going back to going back to the 30s and the 40s 40 he had come up under, the Murray the Camel Humphreys and had made those connections he was the most connected guy in the Chicago outfit, so for a guy like Lenny Patrick to be. [16:15] Rollover against is essentially the political leader, national political leader and political leader of Chicago. This was absolutely crippling to the outfit. That was he wiped out the entire political arm of the Chicago outfit. After Lenny Patrick brought down Gus Alex, this became a basically a street crime organization. It was that those political contacts. I mean, I think that’s a fair statement, right, Paul? Those political contacts and judges, I mean, that was all but eliminated with Gus Alex going away. You’re absolutely right, Cam. And he not only took out Gus Alex, but he took out the boss of the Italians, too. That’s right, yeah. Both of them at the same time. He wiped out the outfit, and you put it beautifully by saying it became a street crime organization. You think about the division of labor and it started with IUP and IUP and. [17:19] La Pietra, Jackie Cerone, they had all the gambling, a lot of the sports gambling, but they also had the skim from Las Vegas, and they ran all that stuff, while Gus Alex, along with Lenny Patrick, ran all that politics, and you can’t have a mob organization if you don’t have cover politically. That’s why even in Kansas City, we’re pretty clean here, but we still never had any real mob prosecutions. [17:47] And it certainly had very few, if any, little, if any mob prosecutions at Cook County. And you couldn’t even get convicted of a real crime, murder, assault, or something. It’s just a straight-out crime. You weren’t even trying to do a RICO, I think, on anybody. So it was, you know, they just operated with impunity. Well, you took out that whole gambling side. That was all the money coming in. And then shortly thereafter, you take out the political side, who then turns back and gets the new boss on the gambling side and loan sharking and all that. [18:23] I’ll tell you, by 1990, the outfit’s gone. It really is. It still exists to a degree, but Sam Carlisi was the last traditional old line boss of the outfit. you, that, in my opinion, that ever ruled. After that, it was never the same. Yeah, I think a guy like Gus Alex, you know, like you said, Gary, you had Aiuppa who was dealing with gambling, but I think that’s a lot of, there’s a lot of optics to that, you know, and you’ve got all these cities who have got characters who are not Italian, Gus Alex in Chicago, and, you know, as Paul said, Meyer Lansky, who was New York, and you had Mashie Rockman in Cleveland, and these characters not italians so they know when to step back and let and let the italians talk but that doesn’t mean that they’re not running things it’s just for the optics of city to city where the italians have to see that they’re dealing with italians they don’t walk in the room it doesn’t mean that behind the scenes they’re not pulling the levers they just because of of the uh uh criminal um. [19:34] The the criminal view of of non-italians in that world sort of sort of their own prejudices these guys don’t always walk in the room when they’re dealing with other cities gus alex is is sitting down with anybody in chicago but you go to kansas city you go to new york, you know meyer lansky would leave the room when they were when they were talking you know italian to Italian. And the same thing with Gus Alex or Mace Rockman or any of those other guys who are not Italian. It was just an optics city to city. It doesn’t mean that they weren’t pulling the levers. Is it Yehuda or Jehuda, Cam? Jehuda. I’ve always heard of Jehuda. Yeah, Jehuda. So he kind of dealed with the IRS that year. [20:23] He must have had some. The IRS was really strong working the mob in Chicago. I’ve noticed several references to IRS investigations. We did not have that in Kansas City, and the IRS did a little bit, but they were not as strong as they were up in Chicago. [20:38] Yeah, he met with an agent, Tom Moriarty, who’s been around and worked Chicago for a long time. He was a pretty well-known guy up here. But Bill Jehota worked under Ernest Rocco Infelice, who was a real powerhouse going back a long time. And out in Cicero, and his crew, a lot of these crews had their own little names, and they called the good shit Lollipop. He was a huge gambling enterprise, you know. And they bought a house up in Lake County, which is north of the city. It’s funny, this house they bought was actually the family that had lived in it. The son had murdered the family. It was a murder house before the outfit bought it. and uh they bought it used it as a as a gambling den and and after that moved out they used it for prostitution and they would park cars at a nearby motel that they ran and then then have a uh a, valet service that drove him to this this gambling house and there was also quite a few uh murders that uhJahoda witnessed i’m sure he took no part in it he just happened to be standing outside of the house when they when they these murders were committed there was a uh was it hal smith and um. [21:57] Oh i can’t remember the they killed somebody else in this home and they burnt these were guys who didn’t want to pay his tree tags, and they were gamblers who refused to give in. And he brought down this entire crew. I mean, Rocco and Felice was… There’s a famous picture of the day after the Spolatros were killed. And it was really the upper echelon of the up that you’ve got. You’ve got little Jimmy Marcello. You’ve got the boss, Sam Wings-Carlesi. You’ve got the street boss, Joe Ferriola. And you’ve got Rocco and Felice, who’s right there. These are the four top guys, basically, in the outfit as far as at this time, the Cicero crew had risen to the top. That was the powerhouse crew. And so he was involved in those discussions because he was such a powerhouse out there with Ferriola being the street boss. So he was, it really can’t be thatJahodatestimony that eventually brought down this crew was really, it really crippled that crew for a long time. Well, those people that went down in that trial have only in the last five years come out of prison. Yeah, we’ve actually had been talking to somebody. We’ve had the… [23:13] Opportunity to meet he brought down uh uh robert um to go beat um bellavia and another guy who doesn’t like to be mentioned who runs a pretty successful pizza pizza chain up in lake county and uh these guys went down for a long time the beat was down for 25 years and he just came out. [23:39] So and billJahoda have if you read his testimony it is kind of kind of odd that he was standing outside of the building and just looked in the window and they were committing a murder and he just he he places himself outside of the house witnessing a murder through the window which is convenient when you’re the one testifying against murderers it certainly is yeah. [24:03] So so that was he was involved in the gambling so that makes sense then the irs got him and millions of dollars millions of dollars a month they were bringing and he met uh, i don’t remember paul and you did he he contacted moriarty right or did moriarty reach out to him because he was under investigation i i thought Jahoda was was worried about himself so he reached out to them i can’t remember the details i think you’re right yeah i i think he was worried about his own his own safety gary and he reached out to moriarty and they met up at a hotel just outside the city on the uh up in the northwest and uh they talked about things i actually found the location and on the little map you can find where where they met each other but he they met each other in disgust and they would meet different locations and and jahuda wore a wire and some of those some of those wiretaps are they really make for that. [25:05] That those conversations come right out of the movie just i love what we’re doing out here and i love my job and and you actually where i’m going to make you trunk music i mean you really hear these things that that you see it right in the movies i mean you you can’t write the dialogue that these guys are actually using it’s it’s it’s you know it it comes straight out of a book i mean You’ve got, you’ve got, uh, this is the toughest dialogue you’ll ever hear. Interesting. How’d you buy it? Where’d you find that at? Is that, uh, it’s probably not the audio in probably anywhere. No book or something. Yeah. You can, if you look up, if you look up different, different, you know, you go on newspapers.com or you go in different, uh, I believe, uh, I’ve got, um, uh, mob textbook by, um, Howard Abedinsky. I’ve got a couple of copies of his, of his textbook, organized crime. And he’s got some clips of it. This guy who owns a pizza shop up north is talking about how he loves his job. He loves what he does. And it’s funny to hear he talk about smashing somebody and loving what you do. Really? I’ve heard a few conversations like that back at the station house. [26:25] I don’t care. It’s on both sides. Is that what you’re saying? When you live in that world. Those guys can go either direction. [26:37] Well, let’s talk about ex-Chicago cops. Speaking of cops, let’s talk about, Vince Rizza, his daughter actually appeared on that Chicago Mob Housewives, or they tried to do a show. And Frank Schweiss’ daughter was on it. And Pia Rizza, who has gotten some notoriety as a model or something, I can’t remember. And she really, she was tight. She would not talk about her dad at all. I read an interview of her. She would just talk about her dad at all. But he came in and he testified against Harry Aleman, of all people, and linked him to the murder of this bookie, Anthony Ritlinger. Remember that one? [27:22] Go ahead, Paul. No, that one I’m not very up on, Cam. I’m sorry. So, Ritlinger, I believe he didn’t want to pay his street tax, if I’m right, Gary. Yeah, you’re right. He had been warned. Rattlinger had been warned that he needs to pay, he needs to pay, and he was making a good deal of money. And Ratlinger was he was brought in just the normal course of action with the wild bunch because he was a wild bunch murder I’m a little rusty but here it comes so he was a wild bunch killing, he was brought in he was warned it was the typical Harry Ailerman and if I’m remembering correctly and people correct me if I’m not it was Butch Petruccelli they sat him down. [28:11] Usually it would be Butch and, um, uh, Borsellino who would do the talking, uh, Tony Borsellino, and they would do the talking. And then afterwards, Butch Petruccelli would just sit down and glare. So he was a pretty scary guy. And he had that, uh, uh, Malocchio, the, the evil eye, and he would just glare at people. And that would send the message and Rattlinger didn’t, didn’t listen. He was making too much money, he’s not going to pay any damn Degos, that kind of line. And so he, of course, fell victim to these guys. And I believe he may have been trunk music. I think I remember this one, Matt, but I can’t remember. Yeah, I got this one. He went to a restaurant. That’s right. That’s right. And he had already, his daughter lived with him. I’m not sure about the wife, but he had warned his family to take all kinds of extra cautious. He knew something was coming. And it was, you know, after reading that thing, it’s, It’s kind of like, well, we talked about Spilotro taking off their jewelry. Ken Eto did this similar kind of a thing and told his wife he may not be coming back. [29:22] I tell you, another guy that did the same thing was Sonny Black. That’s right. It came out about Joe Pistone, the Donnie Brasco story. He did the same thing. He went to a sit-down or a meeting, and he took off his jewelry, I believe left his billfold, when he went to the meeting. this. Ken Eto was the same way. Ken Eto, I think, thought he could talk his way out. I think all of them thought they could talk their way out of it. So Rettlinger went out by himself and sat in a prominent place in this local restaurant that was really well known up there in the north side. It’s north of downtown Chicago, and I can’t remember the name of it. [30:02] And he just sat there and pretty soon a car pulls up and two guys run in kind of like a Richard Cain kind of a deal and just start popping. And that was a Harry Aleman deal. That’s right. He did, I believe. There’s an old guy who married the girlfriend of Felix Adlericio, I believe. He and this woman are sitting out in front of their brownstone, and Aleman and some other dude pull out and get out when guys walk up to him and shoot him and kill him. [30:31] And so that was – Yeah, that was Petrocelli and Aleman walked up, And he had been, he had been dating, uh, uh, Aldericio’s, Alderico’s girlfriend. Now that’s the famous hit from beyond the grave. Because we’re going to go on the old Samuel’s just sitting in the lawn chair thinking he’d got it made. That’s right. You know, Gary, you and I did the show on the outfit, uh, a long time ago. No, I’m sorry. On the wild bunch, a long time ago. So a lot of those, and they did so much work back in the day. A lot of those run together, but yeah, you’re now, uh, now that you’re right, writing her was he was eating in a restaurant. I’m, Uh, I can’t remember the name. It may have been, been Luna’s, but he was, went out in public. He thought he’d be safe. And like you said, a lot of these guys have a six cents because they come up on the street and they know these things. And, uh, like a guy like Sammy and Reno knew it was coming. He was dodging them for a long time, but they, they know that their time is coming. Eventually they just, they stay ahead of it for a while and figure they can fight their way out or talk their way out. And yeah, they, he was blown away right in public. Like it was similar to the, I remember it being similar to the, to the Richard Cain murder. And this was in, it was right around the same time. It was, it was in the mid seventies, 75, 74, 75, 76. It might’ve been 75 that writing or happened right, right in the middle of the restaurant. [31:58] I’ve been a lot cheaper to pay the street tax, I reckon. You know, and it wasn’t, I don’t recall that they’re asking for so much, but once these murder started happening yeah i think it was it wasn’t like it was half or 75 i think they just wanted it was you know it might have been a quarter it might have just been a flat fee across the board but once that street tax was was instituted i mean we’ve talked about this before gary that was when the wild bunch was out there that was that was they really didn’t play around When Ferriola told these guys, get everybody in line, [32:31] they really cracked down and they weren’t playing at all. You pay or you die. And guys like Alem and Patrick Shelley, whether it was right in public or whatever, in the outfit in the 70s, Paul, you know this from Richard Cain and several others. They just write in public would just blow you away. and writing her was just was almost textbook just like the Richard Cain it was it was right in the right in the restaurant yeah I’ll tell you I’ll tell. [33:05] I was conflating him with Hal Smith. Okay. I’ll tell you something about those mob hits. When they kill somebody in public like that in a public way, more than likely it’s because whoever the victim is has been alerted, and they can’t get anybody to get close to them. They will already try to send somebody around to get them isolated, and when they can’t get them isolated, then they want them bad enough. They’ll just lay, as Frank Calabrese, I heard him say once, well, lay on them. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. Well, lay on them. I read that somewhere else. They use that term when you’re following somebody and you’re trying to set them up, or yet they lay on them. Calabrese even said, you know, you’re like, get an empty refrigerator box and hide inside of it. I mean, it’s just like the kind of stuff we used to do at the intelligence unit to run surveillances on people. And so they’ll lay on them for a while until they can get you somewhat isolated. And if they can’t, then they’ll just take you out in public. It might be to send a message, but I don’t think so because it’s so risky to get somebody in public. You can have a young, all-fitty cop in there that you didn’t even notice, and he comes out blazing. And, you know, it’s just not worth it. Even if you take him out, he’s probably got to get you. [34:21] So it’s kind of a last resort. A desperation. Yeah, it’s desperation because they can’t get you isolated. [34:28] You look at some of these public murderers, guys like Richard Cain or Ridinger, like you said, who was on the watch. Sam Annarino, who was right on Cicero. [34:39] A guy like Chris Carty, who was years later. I mean, these are guys who would have been smart enough and street smart enough to be on the watch, to watch their step, to know what was going on. With the exception of a guy like Michael Cagnoni, who just happened to be difficult to get, and he probably might have had an idea that something was happening, but I think just he was a family guy, and so it was hard to isolate. They blew him up on the interstate, but I think that in general, that’s a good point, Gary. These guys, if they just run up and blow away, it’s just a last resort. That’s an excellent point. I have always been in that camp of, oh, that must be sending a message. But you, with your experience, I think you’re exactly right. One thing, guys, I think we’re mixing up Sambo Cesario with Sam Annarino. I was thinking when they – yeah, you’re right, Paul. I was thinking, though, when they blew away Sam Annarino in the parking lot with his family, though, they had been trying to get him for several months. And they finally just went after him in the parking lot, called in a robbery, and blew him away in the furniture store parking lot. That was what I meant. Yeah, Gary was referring to Sambo earlier. I just meant they had been trying to get Sam Annarino for a long time, and when they couldn’t, they just got him in the parking lot. [36:08] Well, interesting. You know, no matter how much terror these guys strike in the heart of their underlings, in the end, they still will turn once in a while. And I think people don’t really not turn because they’re afraid of getting killed so much if they don’t turn because they don’t want to have their family suffering the disgrace of them being a rat or a snitch. I think that’s more important to be a man and go out like a man in this subculture and believe me I’ve lived in a subculture where being a man and being a tough guy is more important than anything else, I think that’s the most important thing that keeps people from coming in you’re like a wimp you’re a puss, you can’t take it, can’t handle it you know what I mean you can’t handle five years I could do five years standing on my head or a tray like the dude told me so uh you know but even even with all that and still there’s a certain percentage that will end up coming in sure and usually there are people that either don’t care about their family like lenny patrick yeah or that don’t have close family so that they don’t have it so much of that pressure that you’re talking about gary because you make a really valid point that that that cultural value is so strong yeah yeah it’s it’s. [37:36] In a lot of these small towns, you see in Detroit where they’re all family tied in and everything, you don’t see informants. I think they’ve had one. Kansas City, as you said, Gary, you don’t see. But then you look at a place like Rochester where they’re all just lower tier mob guys. Everybody was informing on everybody because they really weren’t as upper echelon sort of mob guys. So I think that, like you said, once you get that culture seeped in, you’ve got those families and all, there’s a lot of factors. But if it’s a deep-rooted mob town, you really don’t see a lot of real informants. [38:11] So, guys, now we’ve got one that I did a show on. I did a couple of shows on him. I talked to the FBI agent who brought him in and dealt with him for quite a while. Ken Tokiojo Eto. He survived a murder attempt. When that didn’t happen for him with the outfit, what happened after that? [38:32] I believe his attempted assassins got killed themselves. So tell me a little bit about Tokyo Joe Eto. There’s a photograph I have from the late 50s, early 60s And it shows Joe Ferriola And a couple of other heavyweights Hanging around with a young Ken Eto, And a lot of people didn’t know who Ken Eto was But he ran the Japanese game, Gambling, Bolita And lots of money Poured into the outfit through Tokyo Joe As they called him And there was a rumor that perhaps Tokyo Joe was going to turn under a little bit of pressure. And so Jasper Campisi put three slugs in the back of his head. [39:22] Miraculously, he survived three slugs at point blank range. And if he wasn’t going to turn state’s evidence before, he certainly had a powerful incentive to do so now. He seems to insist As I’ve heard that he was not His intention was not It’s hard to say at this point But he says he had no intention Of flipping and that he’s not sure What the evidence was against him But he was not going to flip until, It was Yeah. [39:55] I’m drawing a blank, Paul. Who was it that sent? It wasn’t the saint. It was Vincent Solano. He was kind of Vincent Solano, who was a union guy and a made guy up there. He kind of had which one. [40:11] He was a capo. And which crew was it? Do you remember? He was on the north side. North side crew. North side crew. And actually, Ken went to Vince Solano and had a talk with him. Said you know what i can do this he was looking at a tray i had a dude tell me what’s that pressure and tried to get him to talk and he said uh he said what am i gonna get out of this a tray he said man i can do a tray standing on my head and i threw him right then that’s right gotta talk to me so uh and that’s all he had to do but solano for some reason uh who knows what was in his head because uh ken Eto had made him a lot of money a lot of money and he was a tough little dude he had he had survived he had been put in the uh concentration camps if you will during the internment camps yeah internment camps and then came as a young man up chicago and been around for a long time by the time this all came down he’d been with him for a long time and made him a lot of money and all kinds of different gambling operations but particularly the bolita. [41:13] So uh it just didn’t make sense i heard one thing that these guys in chicago got the idea Yeah, to keep the noise down, they were loading their own rounds with lighter loads of powder. I don’t know. They had like a hit car up there. The guys in Chicago were pretty sophisticated or tried to be. And so they used these lighter loads. And when it went into his head, it just didn’t penetrate his skull. I remember I was at the hospital once, and there was a young guy who had gotten shot in the head. And they said that the bullet was not a good bullet because it went in under his skin and then went under his scalp, along his skull, and then lodged up on his forehead. [41:56] Wow. And so Eto was kind of the same way. Those bullets were probably lodged up underneath his scalp. He pulled himself to a neighboring, I believe it was a pharmacy that was right there, a corner store. And then that guy went to help him. I think he had to dial a call of 911 or whatever. 911 was in place then. He had to call for help for himself from a phone booth. You know, he saved his own life by being smart and playing dead. Yeah, that’s right. And you look at Chicago, it’s a city of neighborhoods, and you’ve got the Mexican town, and you’ve got the different towns, and you’ve got Chinatown where there’s so much money and so much gambling. And while Haneda was Japanese and there’s obviously division between Japanese and Chinese, it would be much easier for him to go in and then some of these outfit guys and because of different things going on back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. But he could go into neighborhoods and represent the outfit in ways in different communities that the outfit wouldn’t go into or a lot of these made guys. [43:12] And that gave him entry into a lot of communities. In the Asian community, there’s a lot of gambling that he was able to tap into. He was smart enough to see that as a route that maybe the Italian guys didn’t, just like Lenny Patrick, who we’ve talked about in other episodes, had that access into the Jewish communities and other Jewish gangsters. There’s a lot of gambling there. If you can get somebody who has an in to different communities, that’s really a way to go and that’s part of why he made so much money. A game like BolEto wouldn’t normally be and that’s huge in the Hispanic communities and huge with Asians also. You know in kansas city that’s interesting that you should point that out camp we had a um large vietnamese community moved in after the the boat peoples when it started and they moved in through the same church uh. [44:09] Sacred Heart Church and Don Bosco Center that the Italians moved in, the Sicilians moved into back in the turn of the century, the same neighborhoods. And Italians are getting successful and they’re moving out the suburbs and the Vietnamese are moving in and creating the Vietnamese restaurants and Vietnamese shops. And they brought, they have a love for gambling. Like you said, they have huge love for gambling. They don’t drink so much or do so many drugs, but they do love to gamble, it seemed to me like. [44:36] And so they had their own book. he was called the king a guy a friend of mine told me a story uh there’s a mob book he got on the periphery that neighborhood’s got a joint and he he was running a sports book and he had a lot of action going in and out of his joint so this one vietnamese guy had a big debt owed to the king so he goes down and talks to this guy’s name was Larry Strada, he ends up getting killed by some other uh mobsters in a deal they thought he was going to testify but i just needed to hear are there, this young, middle-aged Vietnamese guy goes down to the Caddyshack, Larry Strada’s bar. And he starts telling him about the king. He said, man, he said, the king, you take all your business. He said, he got all business down here. He take all your business. He said, you know, you need to do something about the king. He said, you know, we’re close to the river here. And then he made a motion across his throat like he was cutting his throat. So he was trying to get out of his gambling debt to convince this Italian, La Cosa Nostra bookie to go back and kill me yeah king piano. [45:42] You know i’ve heard a lot of stories and some of them are true some are not that one had to ring a truth to it it had a definite ring of truth that that got to do that playing them against each other yeah you bet and you know another thing about tokyo joe and you know he could testify But Ben Solano had Campizé and Gattuso killed right away. Found them in the trunk of their car, I think. Maybe at the airport, even. [46:09] Chicago trunk music, but they have some saying like that. And so Solano knew that they could testify against him, and they didn’t want to go down for attempted murder, more than likely, and he just didn’t take a chance. So he had them killed, and I can’t remember if he went down behind this or not. But another thing Tokyo Joe was able to do, I mean, he certainly could expose all the inner workings of what he knew about to the FBI, which gives you a lot of tips on where to go, who to work on, and maybe where to throw up microphones or some wiretaps. But he also traveled around he came to Kansas City during the skimming trial because they’re working on the Chicago hierarchy. So they just fly him into town. They show him that picture, the last separate picture where everybody’s in the picture. And they say, now, who’s that? Oh, that’s Aiuppa. Okay, then who’s that? Oh, that’s Vince Solano. Yeah, he reports to Aiuppa. You know, and who’s that guy? I can’t remember the other people at all. So the nation said that Joe is up hard. Oh, yeah, he reports to this guy. So to show the organization of the mob in Chicago and that it is an organization that gives orders to have other people carry it to make the RICO case, that he was a storyteller for that. And he didn’t know anything about the skim at all. But he was a storyteller on getting the mob name and the organization in front of a jury. That’s huge, as you know, Paul. [47:35] Absolutely. We had a similar arrangement during the Carlesi trial about how [47:40] the Carlesi crew operated and who was who, and to tell the story. Yeah. You have to make it a story. Let’s take a look at Betty Toco, which, uh, this is pretty interesting. There was a, um, I’m not sure. Albert Toco was your husband. Remind me what his position was at the outfit at that time. So Al Toco was, there’s sort of a division on who was the leadership of, who was the central leader of Chicago Heights. There’s Dominic Tuts Palermo and Al Toco, who was really a powerhouse in Chicago Heights. And Tuts Palermo was definitely highly connected and across the pond too, also in Italy. But uh Toco was involved in the in the chop shop wars really really heavily involved and he had a lot of connections in chicago too he was involved with lombardo and a lot of these chop shops throughout chicago he had a lot of partnerships and so this was a 30 million dollar a year racket stolen cars chop shops international car rings uh car rings throughout stolen car rings throughout the country. Toco was responsible for burying the Spolatro brothers. It was very sectioned off. Each crew had a part in their murder. And then Chicago Heights was responsible for the burial. [49:02] And they were down in Enos, Indiana. They got kind of turned around a little bit. They were down a farm road. They were burying them in a freshly tilled field. And the road where they’re on, there’s a little side road that you would drive down. There’s very little down there. I’ve, I’ve seen it, but a car happened to come down middle of night and they were in a, there’s a, there were a couple of feet off of a wooded area and they see this car coming down and they sort of all panicked and before they had a chance to cover the area or really do anything, it just looked like a freshly dug, it really just looked like freshly dug mound. And so they all fled and three of Toco’s guys went one way and he went the other. They had the car in both radios. [49:46] He’s wandering around barefoot, and he calls his wife finally. She shows up, and he’s screaming and yelling. And he runs to Florida, and he’s waiting for permission to come back from Joe Ferriola. He’s worried he’s going to get killed because they find the Spallachos immediately because the farmer sees his field all messed up, freshly tilled ground, and it looks really suspicious, like somebody had been poaching deer and burying the carcass. Uh but Toco was a tyrant to his wife he was he was horrible to her he was he was when you think of what a mob guy was that was Toco you know tipping the guy who mows his lawn the kid who mows his lawn hundred bucks and wandered around town everybody knows him but he’d come home and unlike a lot of these guys he was he was a real you know a real. [50:36] Real bastard to his wife you know and for years she put up with this sort of abuse and finally after this this happened and it was in the news and all he finally pushed her too far and she began informing on him and and he was arrested later on he was in his jail cell talking about all the murders he had committed and and this and that about his wife and uh his his uh uh A cellmate repeated everything that he said to try and lessen his sentence. So really, Toco got buried by his big mouth and his terrible behavior. He initially fled to Greece before he was arrested, and they extradited him back from Greece. So this is, I mean, Toco is like deep in mob behavior. [51:22] I mean, fleeing the country and all. I mean, it doesn’t get much more mafia than Al Toco. I hesitate to use that word with Chicago, but that was, Al Toco was running deep. and that Betty Tocco’s testimony eventually led to the trial of Al Tocco. And that was really a blow to the Chicago Heights crew that nowadays, I mean, they continued on and had a few rackets, but after the eventual trial that stemmed from that, it really wasn’t, there’s not much activity now. I’m in that area and there’s just, there’s really nothing here. [51:59] Interesting. Now, so Tony and Michael Spilotro had been lured to somebody’s house on the promise that Michael was going to be made. It’s my understanding. I believe that’s what Frank Collada had reported. And some other people, not part of the Chicago Heights crew, killed him. How did that go down? And how did they pass off the body? You guys, is there anything out there about that? Wasn’t that the family secrets trial, maybe? It was. And, of course, it’s been popularly portrayed in the movie Casino. And it’s surprisingly accurate Except for the fact That where they were beaten But what happened was Little Jimmy Marcello called them. [52:41] And said Sam, meaning Sam Carlisi, the boss, wanted to see them. And they knew that that was ominous because of what was going on beyond the scope of this show. But they took off the jewelry. They left. They told their wives, if we’re not back by 930, it’s not good. They really did not suspect that it was to make Michael. That’s what Collada said. You’re absolutely right about that, Gary. But I don’t think that’s correct at all. They knew that it was bad. And they went. He took a pistol, which was against the rules. They hit him a pistol. Tony hit a pistol on his brother, which you do not do when you go to see the boss. And they were picked up by, by Marcello and taken to a house. I, uh, was it Bensonville? Yeah. Up in Bensonville. Uh, in, in the basement, they walked down the stairs and all of a sudden they looked into the eyes of Carlici and, uh, DeFranzo and everybody, the whole, all the couples were there to spread the, the, uh, liability around and they were beaten to death with, with fists and feet, uh, in, in that basement and then transported to that burial ground, which coincidentally was just maybe a couple hundred yards away from Joey Aupa’s farm. [54:00] Right. So I guess that they must have had, uh, Toco standing by, because I don’t believe he was in that basement. I like that. He must have had him standing by to go grab the bodies and take them out. Really interesting. He should have had the old Doug before he got there. You know, that’s what they always say. First you dig the hole then you go do the murder right and i don’t think he had it done before he got there yeah i don’t i really that’s a good that’s a good point gary i really don’t know and nobody’s ever come forward to say what the status of the hole was beforehand uh you know it was a deep it was a deep it was it was a pretty deep hole uh but they may have had a dug ahead of Tom, but, but, uh, cause they knew the location and it’s pretty obscure location. So they had clearly been there before. And, and, you know, everybody knew that that was, I, I hope was, I got it right. Farm. And, uh, So they may have had it dug, and they just did a shoddy job covering it up. [55:05] But I also haven’t heard the specific details about how they handed it off to Toco. I don’t recall seeing that in Calabrese’s testimony. Yeah, it was Nick Calabrese that testified about that. It brought up the light. He named the killer. So he may not have gone that far, probably having Toco and having his wife testify that he did do this. that she picked him up out there. It was just a piece of the entire prosecution on the spot, which it really never was a trial or anything on that. I don’t believe. Another odd thing is he, I believe he ranted and raved the entire car ride back. And from where he was, you would run up with, It’s now turns into Indianapolis. So it’s a good car ride from where they were to Chicago Heights. I believe he ranted and raved about the guys and his crew and the burial and everything, the entire car ride, which was not something most guys would do in front of their wives. But I really, especially when he treated like that. Right. And complained about how long it took her to get there and everything. So she was able to verify a lot of what Calabrese was saying from the final end of it. Interesting. A friend of mine was in the penitentiary, and he said, there’s a guy in there who called himself a verifier. He said, what do you mean? He said, I’m a professional verifier. What he was, he was an informant. That’s what he was, but he called himself a verifier. [56:33] A girl would come to him and say, well, I heard this, this, and this. Is that true or not? He’d say, well, that’s true. That’s not true. [56:40] I guess that’s a more preferable term. Yeah, she was a verifier. Well, that was great. I really appreciate having that on there and Paul. And I really, I still miss Cam. Every time I get ready to do a Chicago show, I think, oh, I want to get Cam or Rochester. [56:58] We did one about Rochester. We did one about Utica. I did several other shows about other families. And he was a good guy and a real great researcher and a real expert on the outfit and other mafia families. So rest in peace, Cam and Paul. I hope to talk to you again one of these days. Guys, don’t forget, I got stuff to sell out there. Just go to my website or just search on my name for Amazon. I can rent my movies about the skim in Las Vegas, about the big mob war between the Savella brothers and the Spiro brothers in Kansas City. Then one about the great 1946 ballot theft in which the mob… Rigged election, helped Harry Truman rig an election. It’s a little harder to find than mine. You need to put ballot theft and Gary Jenkins. I think you’ll find it then. The other two, Gangland Wire and Brothers Against Brothers, Sabella Spiro, were a little bit easier to find. Had to put it up a different way because Amazon changed the rules, but I got them up there. So thanks a lot, guys.

It's the wedding of the century! LuAnn and Tom finally get married on this week's episode of "Real Housewives of New York," and to sweeten the deal, LuAnn even released a new single! We have the world premiere on our show.Also, talk of Chinatown, oysters, tissue paper, and all the usual crazy stuff on this show. *This episode originally aired June 2017