Managing Up

In this episode of the Managing Up Show, Brandon, Travis, and Nick talk about meetings. How did they get a bad reputation? How can they be better? And no, the answer is not to abolish meetings, but rather to put the effort into making them actually good.They share disaster stories of meetings gone wrong and what makes one actually work. They cover:Setting a clear purpose for meetingsIdentifying the roles of participants, andSetting up discussions that unstick our work and sharpen our focusYep, there is such a thing as an effective, engaging meeting, and once you've had them, you'll never go back.Mentioned this episode:https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/standup-meetings-are-dead/https://www.amazon.com/Death-Meeting-Leadership-Solving-Business/dp/0787968056

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk "hero culture" and how that affects teams. What are the drawbacks of encouraging hero culture? How do you draw the distinction between necessary heroism and chronic hero culture? What's the difference between heroism and professionalism? They also discuss common pitfalls of trying to overcome hero culture, and what it means to set a sustainable example.Show Notes:Do Hard Things by Steve Magnesshttps://www.amazon.com/Hard-Things-Resilience-Surprising-Toughness/dp/006309861X/Navy Seals "Hell Week"https://navyseals.com/nsw/hell-week-0/Radar Chartshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_chartKevin Goldsmith's Lead Dev talk on combining ingredients for the perfect engineering teamhttps://leaddev.com/team/finding-right-ingredients-perfect-engineering-team

OK, fine, y'all win. We finally did the episode of "Managing Up" about managing up. In it, Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about techniques for managing up, how they're similar to managing your own team members, and how it is sometimes very different. They share books and resources that helped them and talk about how communication, being crisp, and (gasp) _feelings_ play into managing your upward relationships.Show Notes:Managing Up article by Stephen Gossett from Built Inhttps://builtin.com/people-management/managing-upConnect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues by Dr. David Bradford, Ph.D & Dr. Carole Robin, Ph.D https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues/dp/0593237099Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life by Susan Davidhttps://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Agility-Unstuck-Embrace-Change/dp/1592409490Ted Lasso: Darts scene ("Be curious, not judgmental")https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S16b-x5mRA

The Managing Up Crew is joined by Estella Gonzalez Madison (@chicagoing) to discuss how they've changed the way they manage since the start of the pandemic 2+ years ago. They discuss tactical changes and how they've changed philosophically during this time, and how they square their own humanity and that of their teams during the last 2 years, as well as how this affects how they plan to manage in the future.Show Notes:Estella Gonzalez Madisonhttps://twitter.com/chicagoingTalking to your past self (humor)https://mymodernmet.com/julie-nolke-funny-viral-video/Rethinking Remote Standupshttps://www.honeycomb.io/blog/standup-meetings-are-dead/Lara Hogan's Manager Voltronhttps://larahogan.me/blog/manager-voltron/

Nick, pondering the Texas electric grid and the 2021 power crisis posits the question to Travis and Brandon: What role does pain play in leading teams? What is the role of a manager in managing and reacting to pain on our teams? What are the dangers of hiding or deflecting this pain? This leads to a discussion of processing feedback, helping teams learn from pain, and yes, launching trains at meteors. What roles do curiosity and fear play in managing organizational pain? What role do retrospectives play in this? How do you pronounce "gigawatt"?Show notes:2021 Texas Power Crisishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisisThe lottery factor (AKA bus factor)https://towardsdatascience.com/maintaining-a-good-lottery-factor-1eeb2b2f52a6Ted Lasso: "The shower pressure is rubbish: make a note of that"https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/cff607e3-f79e-4a84-a38c-ab6124c596c6

Travis, Nick, and Brandon discuss the word "accountability". What does it mean? Why has it developed a negative connotation? What's the connection between "trust" and "accountability"? They discuss the sometimes uncomfortable conversations that must take in place before a conversation about accountability can bring real results. They also talk about how remote culture changes the shape of this conversation by removing shortcuts some leaders have leaned on in offices. Show Notes:The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencionihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Dysfunctions_of_a_TeamStart with Why by Simon Sinekhttps://simonsinek.com/product/start-with-why/Radical Focus by Christina Wodtkehttps://www.amazon.com/Radical-Focus-SECOND-Achieving-Objectives-ebook/dp/B091ZL2SRLRemote by Jason Fried and DHHhttps://basecamp.com/books/remote

Nick, Travis, and Brandon revisit the one-on-ones topic from several years ago and go beyond "1:1s 101". The hosts dive past the scripts and formulas to discuss challenges with regular one-on-one meetings with your team. How do you discern "gripe sessions" from a genuine request to intervene? When do you share context vs. listen? How do you get people to shift past surface-level concerns to the most important topics? What are some 1:1 antipatterns? Also: The group restrains themselves to only one Ted Lasso reference.Show Notes:Episode 5: "One on Ones: The Basics" (Oct. 2018)https://www.managingup.show/episodes/54705bedTed Lassohttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt10986410/https://twitter.com/TedLasso

Nick, Brandon, and Travis discuss the term "Marketing" and the myth that doing good work will speak for itself. How can you advocate for your team's work authentically without feeling like you're bragging? They talk about using tracking documents to track and showcase team accomplishments, and why it's important to demonstrate your team's impact, and not just their efforts. Episode links:Get your work recognized: write a brag documenthttps://jvns.ca/blog/brag-documents/

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about how they increase psychological safety on teams to create space for a variety of voices, starting by debating the value of "strong opinions, weakly held". They explore the questions: How do you bootstrap trust and safety when joining a team? How can you make space for less vocal team members? What are things managers do that reduce trust within their teams? How can you encourage and receive important and valuable feedback?Episode links:Strong Opinions Loosely Held Might be the Worst Idea in Techhttps://blog.glowforge.com/strong-opinions-loosely-held-might-be-the-worst-idea-in-tech/How to Get Your Team to Challenge Your Ideashttps://medium.dave-bailey.com/how-to-get-your-team-to-speak-up-4d403bfc10c9

In this episode, Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about the word "resources", thinking of humans versus abstract notions of people, and balancing company needs with individual needs. What changes as your role moves further from managing individual contributors?Show NotesGE's "Up or out" environmenthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curveEpisode 1: OKRshttps://managingup.simplecast.com/episodes/podcast-episode-1-measure-what-mattersThe Passionate Programmer by Chad Fowlerhttps://pragprog.com/titles/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer-2nd-edition/ 

In the last episode we recorded in the "before times", Nick and Brandon discuss the connection between blameless culture, systems thinking, and just culture. Nick explains how blame robs learning, and how to foster an environment that allows the system to learn and improve. They talk about how accountability fits into a blameless culture, and Nick introduces Sidney Decker's idea of Forward Accountability and shifting behavior rather than assigning blame.Show notes:Just culturehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_cultureNick's talk on Three Mile Islandhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMk6rF4TzsgField guide to understanding human errorhttps://www.amazon.com/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error/dp/0754648257Sidney Decker: Forward accountabilityhttps://sidneydekker.com/just-culture/

In another episode recorded in the "before times", Travis talks about finding the balance between not enough and too much process. Is Scrum too much process? How do you tell when process is designed to help versus be a remote control for a team? What if the process is being blamed for other problems? They discuss the signals that tell you when a process isn't working for you and when to modify existing processes versus throw them out.Notes:Extreme Programming Explained by Kent Beckhttps://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Programming-Explained-Embrace-Change/dp/0321278658Scrum Guide ™ ™ ™ ® ® ®https://www.scrumguides.org/index.htmlTaylorism (Scientific Management)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_management

In an episode recorded in "the before times" that we feel is still relevant, Nick suggested we talk about what to do when you can't do it all. Nick, Brandon, and Travis discuss how the game of "Calendar Jenga" is symptomatic. What happens when your calendar is so full of "valuable" things that you have to choose between lunch or more meetings? Nick talks about using WIP limits to keep your calendar clean, and Travis talks about how designing your schedule is like designing teams.Notes:@catehstn tweet:https://twitter.com/catehstn/status/1231685231909974018Your calendar is a trash firehttps://speakerdeck.com/tehviking/the-new-managers-toolkit?slide=62Time blockinghttps://blog.rescuetime.com/time-blocking-101/Time Management Matrixhttps://facilethings.com/blog/en/time-management-matrix

Travis, Nick, and Brandon ask: what do you do when you have a sense that things are about to change? What about when your work evaporates due to a startup pivot or major organizational change? They talk about how to help maintain a team's composure and capability during times of uncertainty or lack of clear direction, including leaning on your own manager.

Burnout is a very real problem right now, and is often aggravated in our jobs as managers, ironically in our work to help others avoid burning themselves out. Nick, Travis, and Brandon ask: how do you stop the cycle of overwork that led you to success in the first place? How do you take a break? Once you do, how do you come back to work? They discuss learning to set boundaries and say no, even to things we want. Travis compares burnout to technical debt. Nick explains how systemic thinking can alleviate the "trapped" feeling that can exacerbate burnout.Show notes:6 Causes of Burnouthttps://hbr.org/2019/07/6-causes-of-burnout-and-how-to-avoid-them

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about the chaotic and downright scary state of the world and our own prior adjustments to remote work. They discuss ways to lead authentically in these times, and how remote work has helped them learn how integrate life and work (and also, paradoxically, how to keep them separate).Show notes:Bringing your whole self to work https://mike-robbins.com/work/CNN/BBC guy gets interrupted by childhttps://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/03/10/interview-interrupted-children-newday.cnn Career timeline exercisehttp://lanipeterson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Career-Timeline-Exercise-01.2015.pdfBasecamp: Shape Uphttps://basecamp.com/shapeup Miro (formerly RealtimeBoard)https://miro.com/

Travis and Brandon talk about the tendency of software developers to fall into an "overly strategic" or "overly tactical" style of thinking. How do you encourage individuals and teams to consider both near and long term impact in their day to day work? How does team design factor in? What can you do if external factors are causing or aggravating these challenges? Is there a way to achieve balance?Show notes:A Philosophy of Software Designhttps://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Software-Design-John-Ousterhout/dp/1732102201/Pragmatic Programmerhttps://www.amazon.com/Pragmatic-Programmer-journey-mastery-Anniversary/dp/0135957052/ E myth revisitedhttps://www.amazon.com/Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280/

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about the seasonality of work and how that affects individuals and teams. They talk about how they work with low points in the cycle and how to capitalize on the high points, rather than fighting these cycles. How can you change the rhythm when things are flagging too much? What do you do when you can't move dates or deadlines around? When is it OK to ask the team for an "above and beyond push"?Notes:Shop Class as Soulcrafthttps://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value/dp/0143117467The Productivity Cyclehttps://alexsexton.com/blog/2014/1/the-productivity-cycle/

Brandon asks Nick about a piece of advice he doesn't even remember giving about teaching teams to manage themselves. Nick, Travis, and Brandon explore tough questions around self-managing teams: How do you know when to let go and when to step in? What is the job of a manager on a self-managing team? How do you deal with micromanagement from above? How do you dig out if your team can't live without you?

Travis and Brandon talk about how teams can support early-career developers and career changers. What environments are they a good fit for? How do you set expectations for newer folks? How can you help them get and stay productive? Is the cost of doing so worth it?They also talk about the surprising lack of definition around the space between "Entry-Level" and "Senior" engineers to define the main role that the rest are supposedly based on. They talk about the Dreyfus model of skill acquisition, how folks get stuck in "Advanced Beginner" stage, and how to help them move to "Competent" and toward real, holistic expertise.Notes:Zone of Proximal Developmenthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_developmentCharity Majors tweethttps://twitter.com/mipsytipsy/status/1191622396207190016Bryan Liles tweethttps://twitter.com/bryanl/status/1192408098457174016?s=21 Dreyfus model of skill acquisitionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition

Travis, Nick, and Brandon discuss a tough-but-frequent listener question: "How do I coach senior developers and tech leads to work better with each other when they have opposing personality types or passions?" They explore the personality types of "ship it" vs. "perfect it". Brandon talks about what happens in the 1 out of 5 times when the conflict is ego- and control-driven rather than just slightly different values (hint: it's not great news). They discuss techniques to draw out the benefits of these personality differences to lower drama, build trust, and balance a team's ability to focus on outcomes with technical and product excellence.Notes:Your high bar is wrecking your teamhttp://brandonhays.com/blog/2018/06/19/your-high-bar-is-wrecking-your-team/

Nick pays homage to one of his heroes, Captain Al Haynes, who saved hundreds of lives by managing a crisis during a famous airplane crash. Captain Haynes demonstrated one of the canonical examples of Crew Resource Management and "just culture". They ask why we still adhere to the "unquestionable captain" myth and point out some of the (very public) disasters that created. Nick talks to the group about how he pivots into "questions/curiosity" mode from "assumptions/making a point" mode. They discuss the impact and legacy of Captain Haynes and how that's impacted the way we choose to lead and live.Notes:Capt Al Hayneshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_HaynesCrew Resource Mgmthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_managementUnited 232https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232United 173https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_173Tenerife airport disaster (worst air disaster)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disasterTurn the Ship Around!https://www.amazon.com/Turn-Ship-Around-Turning-Followers/dp/1591846404

Travis, Nick, and Brandon talk about vacations after a summer full of them. When is it OK for managers to take vacations? How do you set things up to actually let yourself relax? What if something breaks while you're gone? Nick talks about the power of asking "When's the last time you took time off?" and how to clearly set the cultural expectations in "unlimited PTO" policies. The group discusses vacations as part of an overall self-care strategy. Notes: Nick's "self care" Twitter thread https://twitter.com/nmeans/status/1161331494406840320

There is a healthy and active debate in the management community around Manager READMEs. Are they self-indulgent excuses for asking people to "deal with" your shortcomings? Or an essential tool to guide future conversations? Nick and Brandon explore the nuance in there and how their views about Manager READMEs have evolved (and continue to evolve) as they're exposed to more examples of them in practice. Notes: Jay Desai's Indespensable Guide for the Modern Manager https://firstround.com/review/the-indispensable-document-for-the-modern-manager/ Calmille Fournier's I Hate Manager READMEs https://medium.com/@skamille/i-hate-manager-readmes-20a0dd9a70d0

A thread on the "orange website" got Nick thinking: What are signs a manager is succeeding? What are red flags that they're on the wrong track? They ask the big question: How do you know when you are doing a good job? Are there any actual, useful measures you can use to know a manager is effective? And once you have an idea of what success looks like, how can we help scale that across an organization? Notes: The original HN thread about "What are the signs that you have a great manager?": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230133 Brandon's reply https://twitter.com/tehviking/status/1142480785733234689

Nick, Travis, and Brandon explore trust as a pillar of successful teams. What does a high trust environment look like? How do you build trust? How do managers accidentally lower trust on their teams? How do you build (or rebuild) trust between a team and the rest of the organization? They relay the "marble jar" metaphor and explore what that means for teams. Show notes: John Cutler's trust flowchart https://twitter.com/johncutlefish/status/1144292646120120320 Turn the ship around https://www.amazon.com/Turn-Ship-Around-Turning-Followers-ebook/dp/B00AFPVP0Y No Hard Feelings https://www.amazon.com/No-Hard-Feelings-Embracing-Emotions/dp/0525533834 The Power of Vulnerability (Seminar) https://www.amazon.com/Power-Vulnerability-Teachings-Authenticity-Connection/dp/B00D1Z9RFU

This week, Nick, Travis, and Brandon respond to a listener's question about when and how to successfully use performance reviews. Nick shares the idea of using "pattern matching" as a basis for evaluating performance. They discuss whether to tie performance to raises, and how to gather and provide feedback outside the performance review process. Notes: Listener question: I just had a fairly junior engineer ask in our 1:1 for something like a performance review. This is not something I - or my company - have done before. How do I provide good feedback for eager juniors and jaded seniors? How do I set clear expectations and give small feedback regularly in 1:1s so there are no surprises? How do I keep my experience/perspective from having too much influence? Is it a bad idea to tie raises to just one evaluation? Is there a way to give periodic bigger-picture evaluation and advice to those who want it without doing formal reviews? Thanks!

Nick, Travis, and Brandon explore how they've tried to improve at assessing the technical abilities of potential hires during the interview process. They talk take-home tests, pair programming exercises, and Nick shares a technique that has worked better for his teams than either of those. Notes: Yahtzee problem http://codingdojo.org/kata/Yahtzee/ Trek Glowacki: "Tired: Engineering Interviews; Hired: Engineering Auditions" https://medium.com/@trek/tired-engineering-interviews-hired-engineering-auditions-5f9f00147a57 Kevin Goldsmith: The right ingredients for your perfect team https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnCYxM9z1dEp Kevin Goldsmith: Let's build a product development organization (workshop) https://www.slideshare.net/kevingoldsmith/lets-build-a-product-development-organization

Travis, Nick, and Brandon talk about Rule #1 in running software teams: The Software Must Ship. How much of that is on you, the manager? They explore that question and talk about their experiences managing work backlogs, delivery cadences, and giving teams slack to help them go faster. Ron Jeffries's tweet: https://twitter.com/RonJeffries/status/1120486947569446914 Accelerate by Nicole Forsgren, et al. https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about the vast array of "priorities" that can overwhelm a manager. The group talk through strategies they use to wrangle the "manager's calendar" and reclaim control over your time. Nick talks about how useful procrastination can be as a signal, and the group talks about using focus to make an impact in the face of "busy-ness". Notes: Effective DevOps https://www.amazon.com/Effective-DevOps-Building-Collaboration-Affinity/dp/1491926309 Managing Oneself by Peter Drucker https://www.amazon.com/Managing-Oneself-Peter-Ferdinand-Drucker-dp-1633694836/dp/1633694836 Possible Minds by John Brockman https://www.amazon.com/Possible-Minds-Twenty-Five-Ways-Looking/dp/0525557997 Deep Work by Cal Newport https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Work-Focused-Success-Distracted/dp/1455586692 Inside the Mind of a Master Procrastinator https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_master_procrastinator

Nick, Travis, and Brandon talk about their successes and failures working alongside product teams. They discuss what keeps engineering teams from feeling empowered and how to avoid becoming an "onshore offshore" team. They talk about how to achieve collaborative, healthy tension between product, marketing, and design, and how this work is at the heart of good engineering management. Show notes: Lara Hogan's venn diagrams https://twitter.com/lara_hogan/status/966837809603600386?lang=en https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE27GQKB3p0 https://larahogan.me/blog/team-leader-venn-diagram/ What would you say it is ya do here? https://jonathancshan.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/what-would-you-say-you-do-here.jpg Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/384067-if-you-want-to-build-a-ship-don-t-drum-up

Travis, Nick, and Brandon respond to a thought-provoking question about jumping in to manage a team that's already established. They also talk about what to do when the team needs culture or performance improvements. Amy Unger's question: "Walking into a new to you but established team, whether you were hired into a job or you got a team as part of a re-org, how do you approach coming into an established dynamic as a person of formal authority, but little knowledge or informal influence?" The coaching habit https://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Habit-Less-Change-Forever/dp/0978440749/ Atomic habits https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299/ Learned Helplessness: https://www.amazon.com/Learned-Helplessness-Theory-Personal-Control/dp/0195044673

Now that you're a leader, you may be surprised to find that your words sometimes carry weight that you didn't intend, feeling like the proverbial "Bull in a china shop". Nick, Brandon, and Travis share stories about this, and discuss power dynamics and how to shift power to the people who can actually do the work. Show Notes: Transforming the Difficult Child https://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Nurtured-Approach-ebook/dp/B079DT5TXT/ The Power of Moments https://www.amazon.com/Power-Moments-Certain-Experiences-Extraordinary/dp/1501147765

Estimation is the bane of many software developers' existence. Nick, Travis, and Brandon discuss (and argue) about why estimation can be valuable, whether it's too expensive, and what you can do to help your team deliver consistent value whether or not you're expected to estimate software. We estimated this episode should last about 30 minutes, so naturally it's just over 50. John Cutler on twitter: Hybrid Kanban board https://twitter.com/johncutlefish/status/1080740227092639744 Scrum Guide (It's actually good and a quick read) https://www.scrumguides.org/docs/scrumguide/v2017/2017-Scrum-Guide-US.pdf Dave Thomas: Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility) https://pragdave.me/blog/2014/03/04/time-to-kill-agile.html Martin Fowler: The State of Agile in 2018 https://martinfowler.com/articles/agile-aus-2018.html Welcome to Scrum, where everything is made up and the points don't matter https://memegenerator.net/instance/46928911/welcome-to-whose-line-welcome-to-scrum-where-everything-is-made-up-and-the-points-dont-matter Nickolas Means: The Original Skunk Works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL3Yzjk5R4M Soft Skills Engineering podcast https://softskills.audio/

With Travis out this week, Nick and Brandon discuss a strongly-worded Twitter thread calling out bad leaders, what they've done that has and hasn't worked, and how listening and vulnerability play into more effective leadership (and parenting). Simon Wardley's Twitter thread calling out bad leadership https://twitter.com/swardley/status/1083124264142815233 Accelerate by Nicole Forsgren, PhD, Jez Humble, and Gene Kim https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339 Leadership and Self Deception by the Arbinger Institute https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/1523097809 The Power of Vulnerability by Dr. Brené Brown https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23500254-the-power-of-vulnerability

Blithe Rocher, Engineering Manager at Fastly joins Nick, Brandon, and Travis to discuss how and when to transition to management, what to expect, and what advice she'd give her past self as she started managing her peers. Blithe Rocher https://twitter.com/blithe If I Understood You, Would I Have This Look On My Face? https://www.amazon.com/Understood-Would-Have-This-Look/dp/1524781924 Harrison Metal: General Management Course https://www.harrisonmetal.com/classes/foundations-general-management

Travis and Brandon talk with Nick about his recent Lead Developer talk about Gustav Eiffel, the story of his iconic tower, and how that led to learning to fearlessly and authentically engage in "politics" to accomplish great things in your career. Eiffel's Tower by Nick Means https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RslVT-L2A40 You Can Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen https://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Negotiate-Anything-Negotiator/dp/0553281097 Controversial tweet by Jason Fried https://twitter.com/jasonfried/status/1058816651284623361 Daring Greatly by Brené Brown https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Transforms-ebook/dp/B007P7HRS4/

Engineering leaders Sean Massa and Trek Glowacki join Travis, Nick, and Brandon to discuss what they've learned from their research on engineering ladders and growth tracks across dozens of companies. Hosts: Nick Means https://twitter.com/nmeans Travis Swicegood https://twitter.com/tswicegood Brandon Hays https://twitter.com/tehviking Guests: Sean Massa https://twitter.com/endangeredmassa Trek Glowacki https://twitter.com/trek Show notes: Rent the Runway engineering ladder http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder Medium's skill point based engineering growth framework https://medium.com/s/engineering-growth-framework

Travis, Nick, and Brandon discuss the technical requirements of being a manager, the cultural impact of a manager's technical skills, and why hiring engineering managers is so difficult. Notes: DevOps Transformation/ DevOps Handbook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M9ASFQ3/ The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01F1WZGNC/

Nick, Travis, and Brandon discuss the purpose of one on ones, how to help get the most from them, avoiding common pitfalls, and share resources on improving them for you and your team. Show notes: Radical Candor by Kim Scott https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kim-Scott/dp/B01KTIEFEE/ Questions for your first 1:1 https://larahogan.me/blog/first-one-on-one-questions/ 87 Questions great managers ask https://getlighthouse.com/blog/one-on-one-meeting-questions-great-managers-ask/

Travis and Brandon welcome new co-host Nickolas Means, Engineering Manager at GitHub, to talk about the tracks in engineering management, and the differing roles and responsibilities of the CTO and VP of Engineering. Show Notes: Eric Brooke: Software Engineering Leadership https://ericbrooke.wordpress.com/2018/09/16/software-engineering-leadership/ Camille Fournier: The Manager's Path https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 Lara Hogan: Engineering Ladders at Meetup https://medium.com/making-meetup/engineering-ladders-at-meetup-caacbea4916e Camille Fournier: Rent the Runway's Engineering Ladder http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder

Travis and Brandon discuss how central coaching is to quality management, the 2-way nature of coaching, and the critical role listening plays in becoming a better coach. HBR: The 9 Skills of Great Coaches https://hbr.org/2018/08/managers-think-theyre-good-at-coaching-theyre-not listening questioning giving feedback assisting with goal setting showing empathy letting the coachee arrive at their own solution recognizing and pointing out strengths providing structure encouraging a solution-focused approach Mindset by Carol Dweck https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322 f I Understood You, Would I Have This Look on My Face?: My Adventures in the Art and Science of Relating and Communicating by Alan Alda https://www.amazon.com/Understood-Would-Have-This-Look/dp/1524781924 Hill Climbing algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_climbing

In this super-sized episode, Travis and Brandon discuss what makes a great manager, using 10 skills and traits developed by Google's Project Oxygen and updated over the last 10 years. What is the job of a manager? We discuss the role of a manager with this Google-developed evaluation framework as a guide: https://www.themuse.com/advice/10-behaviors-make-great-google-manager https://rework.withgoogle.com/guides/managers-identify-what-makes-a-great-manager/steps/learn-about-googles-manager-research/ Carol Dweck, fixed vs growth mindset https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/29/carol-dweck-mindset/ Travis’s magic question: “How would you like me to help with this?” Brandon’s Notes-Trello Listening-action framework Private Confluence space for 1:1 agendas with action items Conjoined triangles post https://frontside.io/blog/2016/07/07/the-conjoined-triangles-of-senior-level-development.html Simon Sinek: “Start with why” https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7108725-start-with-why HBR study about why people want people who could do their job https://hbr.org/2016/12/if-your-boss-could-do-your-job-youre-more-likely-to-be-happy-at-work Muse article: 1. “Is a Good Coach” Employees need and appreciate a manager who takes time to coach and challenge them, and not just when they’re behind. As Muse contributor Avery Augustine put it, “When it comes to clients, the squeaky wheel usually gets the grease.” The same is true, she said, of employees you manage. But “I realized that every employee needs to be managed—star performer or not,” she wrote. “And simply leaving some employees to do their jobs without any type of feedback or guidance was detrimental to their career development.” 2. “Empowers Team and Does Not Micromanage” Micromanaging’s a common mistake managers make without even realizing it, one that discourages and frustrates employees. But Google’s research found that its best managers don’t, instead offering the right balance of freedom and advice, showing they trust their direct reports, and advocating for the team, according to a sample breakdown from an internal presentation included in a 2013 Harvard Business Review article. 3. “Creates an Inclusive Team Environment, Showing Concern for Success and Well-Being” In the first iteration of the list, this was described as “expresses interest in and concern for team members’ success and personal well-being.” Several years later, the company’s updated this entry to reflect research on psychological safety that allows for risk-taking—which Google identified as an important characteristic of effective teams—and unbiasing, or the process of becoming aware of and combatting unconscious biases. It’s not enough just to have a diverse team, good leaders and managers strive to create an inclusive environment every day. 4. “Is Productive and Results-Oriented” Employees don’t want to work for a lazy boss. They'd rather be part of a team that’s productive and successful, and that’s hard to do if the leader doesn’t set the tone. Former Muse editor Adrian Granzella Larssen explained that becoming a boss means you have to be on model behavior. “As a manager, you'll be looked to as a role model,” she wrote. “You can’t expect people to give their best at work if they don’t see you doing it, so be sure you’re always on your A game.” That means putting in the effort and getting results. 5. “Is a Good Communicator—Listens and Shares Information” Communicating effectively is one of the basics of being a good manager (or a good employee for that matter). But it’s also important to remember that great managers prioritize listening. “Focused, curious listening conveys an emotional and personal investment in those who work for us,” according to Muse contributor Kristi Hedges. “When you listen to people, they feel personally valued. It signals commitment.” 6. “Supports Career Development and Discusses Performance” Google recently added the “discusses performance” component to this behavior. The company pointed to research from Gallup that found only half of employees know what expectations they should be fulfilling at work. “To free employees to take initiative and inspire high performance,” Gallup concluded, “managers need to set clear expectations, hold employees accountable for meeting them and respond quickly when employees need support.” In other words, managers should not only help their team develop skills and advance their careers, but also be clear about expectations and give honest feedback about performance. 7. “Has a Clear Vision/Strategy for the Team” Stephanie Davis, who won one of Google’s Great Manager Awards, told HBR that feedback reports helped her realize how important it was to communicate team vision in addition to company vision. “They wanted me to interpret the higher-level vision for them,” she said. “So I started listening to the company’s earnings call with a different ear. I didn’t just come back to my team with what was said; I also shared what it meant for them.” A clear and shared vision can also help members of your team work well together. 8. “Has Key Technical Skills to Help Advise the Team” When Google first released its list of behaviors, the findings were somewhat anti-climactic. “My first reaction was, that’s it?” Laszlo Bock, then the Vice President of People Operations, told The New York Times in 2011. The entries on the list may’ve been obvious, but their relative importance wasn’t, as Bock’s team found out when it ranked the behaviors. “In the Google context, we’d always believed that to be a manager, particularly on the engineering side, you need to be as deep or deeper a technical expert than the people who work for you,” he said. “It turns out that that’s absolutely the least important thing. It’s important, but pales in comparison.” So all hope isn’t lost if you find yourself managing people who know more than you. 9. “Collaborates Across the Organization” Google recently extended its list by two when its employee survey found that effective cross-organization collaboration and stronger decision-making were important to Googlers. Whether you’re at a large corporation, an early-stage startup, or a nonprofit, managing your team and leading it to success can depend at least in part on how well you can work with other teams. Muse contributor Rebecca Andruszka gave some tips for improving communication with other departments for “the collective betterment of the company” (and, as she wrote, to avoid feeling like you work in Congress). 10. “Is a Strong Decision Maker” Google’s last addition is a reminder that while it’s important for a manager to listen and share information, employees also appreciate one who can make decisions. Muse Founder and President Alex Cavoulacos urged managers to go one step further and tell their teams not only what decision they’ve made, but also why they’ve made it. The small extra effort helps the team understand context and priorities, improve their own future decision-making, and stay engaged as well as informed. One of the reasons this research was so effective was that it used internal data to prove what makes managers great at Google (and the company’s re:Work website provides some first steps for others who want to try to replicate its approach). But that doesn’t mean the list isn’t helpful for people who don’t work there. After all, Google did go from being a made-up word to a household name in just a few years. People and companies now look to it as an example, not only in innovation, but also in its approach to management.

Travis and Brandon introduce the podcast, discuss the book Measure what Matters by John Doerr, and talk about the value that OKRs can bring to a team. Notes: Measure What Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Measure-What-Matters-Google-Foundation-ebook/dp/B078FZ9SYB/ The Hard Thing About Hard Things: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205 Radical Focus: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Focus-Achieving-Important-Objectives-ebook/dp/B01BFKJA0Y ATX Web Show http://atxwebshow.com/ Mark Rickmeier (CEO of TableXI) https://twitter.com/markrickmeier?lang=en