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Bernie Maloney: The Triangulation Technique—Coaching Agile Teams Through Challenges Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Bernie identifies critical patterns that cause teams to self-destruct, with lack of clarity about intention being the most common culprit. When teams are treated as mere "task workers" without clear vision, strategy, or goals, they become depressed and directionless. Some teams seek forgiveness after failed experiments, while others get stuck seeking permission without taking enough self-leadership. Bernie emphasizes that waiting for direction is fundamentally self-destructive behavior, and Scrum Masters must create safety for teams to reach high performance. He introduces the coaching technique of triangulation, where problems become a third point that coach and coachee examine together, side by side, rather than facing each other in opposition. In this segment, we talk about “What the Duck”, a Lego Serious Play workshop. Featured Book of the Week: Start with Why by Simon Sinek Bernie champions "Start with Why" by Simon Sinek as essential reading for Scrum Masters working to transform team culture. He explains that compelling stories are how leaders truly influence others, following the sequence of Attention-Emotion-Reason. This book helps Scrum Masters understand that their job fundamentally involves changing culture, and leaders must demonstrate the change they want to see. Bernie connects this to the broader leadership challenge of developing coaching and mentoring skills within organizational structures. During this segment, we also refer to the following books: Drive, By Dan Pink Change the Culture, Change the Game, by Connors et al. The Secret Language of Leadership, by Denning Too Many Bosses, Too Few Leaders, by Peshawaria The Geek Way, by McAfee Right Kind of Wrong, by Edmondson Self-reflection Question: What patterns of self-destructive behavior might your teams be exhibiting, and how could you help them move from seeking permission to taking ownership? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Bernie Maloney: The Power of Psychological Safety in Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Bernie shares a powerful story about learning what psychological safety truly means through both success and failure. Working in a high-pressure division with tight timelines and margins, Bernie discovered the transformative power of the mantra "always make a new mistake." When he made a significant error and was met with understanding rather than punishment, he experienced firsthand how psychological safety enables teams to thrive. Later, facing a different challenge where mistrust existed between management and teams, Bernie had to navigate the delicate balance of maintaining psychological safety while addressing management's desire for transparency. His solution was innovative: conduct retrospectives with the team first, then invite managers in at the end with anonymized contributions. Bernie's approach of framing changes as experiments helped people embrace newness, knowing it would be time-bound and reversible. In this episode we refer to Neuro-linguistic Programming (NLP). Self-reflection Question: How might your current approach to mistakes and experimentation be either fostering or undermining psychological safety within your team? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Brad Frazer is a Boise-based attorney and partner at Hawley Troxell, Idaho's largest law firm, where he leads the Intellectual Property & Internet practice group with a specific focus in IP Strategy, AI, Data Security, and IT. A graduate of BYU, UC Hastings, and the University of Utah, Brad has decades of experience in cybersecurity, internet law, and IP, including roles as Deputy General Counsel at major tech firms. He's also a published novelist and a recognized expert in emerging technologies like blockchain, NFTs, and Web3. Richard Hundhausen helps software organizations and teams deliver better products by understanding and leveraging Azure DevOps and Scrum. He is a Professional Scrum Trainer and author of Professional Scrum with Azure DevOps (MS Press). As a software developer and consultant with over 30 years of experience, he understands that software is built and delivered by people and not by processes or tools. Topics of Discussion: [2:24] Richard and Brad share their enthusiasm for AI, and they discuss the legal implications of using AI-generated code. [4:00] Brad explains that ownership of AI-generated code is academic until legal issues arise, such as lawsuits or investment rounds. [5:29] Richard explains the process of using AI tools to create code, emphasizing the iterative nature of the process. [8:02] The nuances of copyright law, including the need for human authorship to establish ownership. [10:57] How one gets a registered copyright. [14:19] The different things that AI-driven development can mean. [19:44] Risk avoidance practices as a coder. [23:46] Brad advises software developers to be aware of the legal environment and the potential risks of using AI tools. [24:59] What is an AI output, and what is just the computer being helpful? [32:35] Brad shares a real-world example of a $20 million deal where the seller did not own the code, highlighting the potential risks. [38:38] Brad mentions the Anthropic case, where the company was sued for training its LLM on copyrighted material. [41:22] Richard and Brad discuss the importance of raising awareness and providing resources to help developers understand the legal implications of using AI tools. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Brad Frazer LinkedIn Richard Hundhausen LinkedIn Thaler vs. Perlmutter Bartz v. Anthropic Who Owns the Code? Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.
The Daily Scrum is the shortest Scrum event and the most misunderstood. Too many teams turn it into a draggy 30-minute status update instead of the energizing 15-minute sync it's meant to be.In this episode, Kate & Ryan break down how to facilitate Daily Scrums that actually work. They cover:Why the Daily Scrum is the team's meeting (not a status check for the Scrum Master or Product Owner!)Alternatives to the “three questions” and how to keep things outcome-focusedTricks like the “popcorn” method, music openers, and 15th-minute parking lots to keep energy highHow to handle long-winded updates, lurking managers, and multitasking teammatesWhy this sacred 15 minutes might be your team's most important event of the dayIf you're tired of Daily Scrums that drag on and suck energy out of the room, tune in. Let's reclaim the Daily Scrum as a dynamic, focused, and fun event that drives the sprint forward.
I denne episode af Scrum med mere diskuterer vi, hvordan man undgår og håndterer frustrationer i udviklingsteams og mellem udviklere og brugere. Vi fremhæver tre centrale strategier: Pointen er, at frustrationer er uundgåelige, men at respekt, empati og strukturerede processer kan minimere deres negative indvirkning. Målet er ikke at undgå konflikter, men at håndtere dem […] Source
Mariano Gontchar: The Micromanagement Trap—When PO's Good Intentions Harm Agile Team Performance Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Visionary Leader During an agile transformation project modernizing a build system with multiple stakeholders, Mariano worked with an exceptional Product Owner who demonstrated the power of clear vision and well-defined roadmaps. This visionary Product Owner successfully navigated complex stakeholder relationships by maintaining focus on the product vision while providing clear direction through structured roadmap planning, enabling the team to deliver meaningful results in a challenging environment. The Bad Product Owner: The Task-Manager Micromanager Mariano encountered a well-intentioned Product Owner who fell into the task-manager anti-pattern, becoming overly detail-oriented and controlling. This Product Owner provided extremely detailed story descriptions and even specified who should do what tasks instead of explaining why work was needed. This approach turned the team into mere task-handlers with no space to contribute their expertise, ultimately reducing both engagement and effectiveness despite the Product Owner's good intentions. Self-reflection Question: Are you empowering your team to contribute their expertise, or are you inadvertently turning them into task-handlers through over-specification? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Mariano Gontchar: Fear-Free Teams—Creating Psychological Safety for High Performance Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Mariano's definition of Scrum Master success has evolved dramatically from his early days of focusing on "deliver on time and budget" to a more sophisticated understanding centered on team independence and psychological safety. Today, he measures success by whether teams can self-manage, communicate effectively with stakeholders, and operate without fear of criticism. This shift represents a fundamental change from output-focused metrics to outcome-focused team health indicators that create sustainable high performance. Self-reflection Question: How has your definition of success evolved in your current role, and what would change if you focused on team independence rather than traditional delivery metrics? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Frustration-Based Retrospective Mariano's retrospective approach focuses on asking team members about their biggest frustrations from the last sprint. This format helps team members realize their frustrations aren't unique and creates psychological safety for sharing challenges. The key is always asking the team to propose solutions themselves rather than imposing fixes, making retrospectives about genuine continuous improvement rather than just complaining sessions. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Nigel Thurlow previously served as the first-ever Chief of Agile at Toyota, where he created the World Agility Forum award-winning “Scrum the Toyota Way” and co-created The Flow System™, a holistic FLOW-based approach to delivering customer-first value built on a foundation of The Toyota Production System.Throughout his career, Thurlow has gained an enviable recognition as a leading expert in Lean and Agile methods, tools, techniques, and approaches. He specializes in developing effective organizational designs and operating models for organizations to embrace both Lean and Agile concepts. By leveraging knowledge from various sources, Thurlow helps optimize organizations to enact successful, long-lasting transformational strategies in applying Lean thinking, Agile techniques, and Scrum – while combining complexity thinking, distributive leadership, and team science, represented by a triple helix structure known as the DNA of Organizations™.As of 2024, he has trained over 8,500 people worldwide in Scrum, Agile, Lean, Flow, Complexity, and organizational design. Thurlow is a Professional Scrum Trainer (PST).An instinctive problem solver, Nigel Thurlow takes a method-agnostic, cross-industry approach in helping organizations find the right tools, methods, and approaches to overcome challenges within their contextual situation. He advocates for the fact that there is not a one-size-fits-all prescriptive approach to agility; all tools have utility, but they also have contextual limitations. From this vantage point, Thurlow equips an organization's people to become an army of problem solvers, expanding their perception of what they do so they can better understand and prepare for potential challenges along the way.Thurlow is currently the Chief Executive Officer at The Flow Consortium, a collection of highly regarded companies in the Lean and Agile world — as well as the scientific and academic communities at large. The Flow Consortium strives to expand the boundaries of current Lean and Agile thinking through the understanding of complexity thinking, distributed leadership, and team science by tapping into the minds of top thought leaders from these concentrations.While at Toyota, Thurlow worked to frame Scrum as more than just a standardized behavioral process by applying and advancing fundamental methodologies to spur innovative, forward-thinking solutions to Toyota's most complex challenges. He also founded the Toyota Agile Academy in 2018. These efforts signaled a transformative phase for Toyota, leading the company towards organizational agility and helping its team members better understand this concept in an automotive production context.Additionally, Thurlow has been a board presence at the University of North Texas since 2019, serving as an advisor to the Department of Information Science Board and a member of the College of Information Leadership Board. He has also served as the President of CDQ LLC since 2012. Prior to that, Thurlow held executive coaching and training roles for companies including Vodafone, Lumen Technologies, Scrum, Inc., GE Power & Water, 3M Healthcare Information Systems, Bose Corporation, The TJX Companies, Inc. – as well as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has also taught Scrum at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).As an author, Thurlow was named a Forbes top 10 author for co-authoring the book “The Flow System™” in 2020. He has recently co-authored “The Flow System Playbook” published in 2023 which presents a practical study guide and reference book to all the concepts covered in the first book.His other notable publications include “Introducing the Flow System (2019)” and “TPS and the Age of Destruction (2019).” He is also the co-author of The Flow Guide and The Flow System Principles and Key Attributes Guidebook. Recently, Thurlow co-authored “The...
Bereits zum 40. Mal bringt euch „Safe!“ die Bandbreite und Vielfalt der LVM Versicherung ein Stück näher. Eine, die schon 40 Mal dabei war, ist unsere Moderatorin Josi, die in der neuen Episode auf Verena Ostendorff aus der IT-Koordination und Dirk Jürgens, Teamleiter Anwendungsentwicklung, trifft. Gemeinsam werfen die drei in unserer kleinen Jubiläums-Episode einen exklusiven Blick hinter die Kulissen des LVM Anwendungssystems (LAS) – dem digitalen Herzstück für unseren Außendienst. Verena und Dirk erzählen, wie agiles Arbeiten nach Scrum, eine klare Product-Owner-Rolle und echte Teamarbeit dafür sorgen, dass die LVM Agenturen jeden Tag optimal unterstützt werden. Dabei erfährt Josi auch, wie das LAS Prozesse vereinfacht, Abläufe beschleunigt und mit innovativen Funktionen die Beratung noch effizienter macht – und warum kontinuierliche technische Weiterentwicklung seit über 20 Jahren Teil der LVM-DNA ist.
Mariano Gontchar: From Evangelist to Facilitator—How To Lead A Successful Company Merger Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. During a complex merger between two telecom companies, Mariano faced the challenge of uniting team members with different cultures, practices, and tools. His initial approach of selling Agile theory instead of focusing on benefits failed because he forgot about the "why" of change. The breakthrough came when he shifted from being an Agile evangelist to becoming a facilitator who listened to managers' real challenges. By connecting people and letting the team present their own solutions to leadership, Mariano successfully created unity between the formerly divided groups. Self-reflection Question: Are you trying to sell your methodology or solve real problems, and what would happen if you focused on understanding challenges before proposing solutions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Shared services teams often wonder: Does product ownership still apply here—or are we the exception to the rule? In this episode, Brian and Kert Peterson explore how Scrum principles hold up when value isn’t always customer-facing and demand never stops.
Mariano Gontchar: Breaking Down The Clan Mentality In Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Mariano encountered a competent team that was sabotaging itself through internal divisions and lack of trust. The team had formed clans that didn't trust each other, creating blind spots even during retrospectives. Rather than simply telling the team what was wrong, Mariano created an anonymous fear-based retrospective that revealed the root cause: a Product Owner who behaved like a boss and evaluated team members, creating a culture of fear. His approach demonstrates the power of empowering teams to discover and solve their own problems rather than imposing solutions from above. Self-reflection Question: What fears might be hiding beneath the surface of your team's dynamics, and how could you create a safe space for them to emerge? Featured Book of the Week: Turn the Ship Around! by David Marquet Mariano recommends "Turn the Ship Around!" by David Marquet (we have an episode with David Marquet talking about this book, check it here). Mariano highlights the fascinating story and introduction to the leader-leader model, which differs significantly from the traditional leader-follower approach. This book resonates with Mariano's journey from directive leadership to facilitative leadership, showing how empowering others rather than commanding them creates more effective and engaged teams. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
The Birth of the Agile Delivery Manager = No More ScrumMastersIn 2025, we formally changed the title of Scrum Master to Agile Delivery Manager (ADM) in our technology division. This renaming wasn't a rebrand for the sake of optics. It reflected a deeper evolution already happening, rooted in the expanding scope of delivery leadership, the adoption of Flow Metrics and Value Stream Management, and our real-world shift from strict Scrum toward a more customized Kanban-based model.It was this year that the name finally clicked. After assigning Value Stream Architect responsibilities to our Scrum Masters and giving them ownership of delivery metrics, team-level delivery health, and collaboration across roles within their Agile team, I realized the title “Scrum Master” no longer fit their role. I even considered Agile Value Stream Manager, but it felt too narrow and platform-specific.That's when Agile Delivery Manager stood out, not only as a better label but also as a more accurate reflection of the mindset and mission.How to connect with AgileDad:- [website] https://www.agiledad.com/- [instagram] https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/- [facebook] https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/- [Linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/
Mariano Gontchar: From Boss to Facilitator—The Critical Role of Empathy in Scrum Mastery Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Mariano shares his transformation from viewing himself as a boss in his project manager role to embracing the facilitator mindset essential for Scrum Masters. His journey reveals a crucial insight: you cannot implement Scrum with a "big bang" approach. Instead, success comes through empathy and understanding your team's needs. Mariano emphasizes that working with Agile requires constant practice and learning, but the key lesson that changed everything for him was learning to empathize with his team members rather than directing them from above. Self-reflection Question: How might your current leadership style be limiting your team's potential, and what would change if you shifted from directing to facilitating? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Technovation with Peter High (CIO, CTO, CDO, CXO Interviews)
1007: Can AI transform a 200-year-old commercial real estate company? In this episode, Peter High speaks with Yao Morin, Chief Technology Officer of JLL, a $24B global commercial real estate leader. Yao shares how she is leading JLL's AI and data transformation which is reshaping how buildings are operated, how software is developed, and how employees work. Yao details how JLL is building customer-facing AI products like the JLL Property Assistant, driving cultural change through AI literacy programs, and launching internal tools like JLL GPT that already see 17,000 daily users. She also explains why she believes Scrum teams will shrink, engineers will code less, and AI adoption will soon be table stakes across industries. Key topics include: AI strategy across internal and external JLL platforms The APEX program for AI-driven software engineering Metrics for measuring AI impact beyond efficiency gains Ethical AI design, data privacy, and client trust
Scrum often gets blamed for a lot of things it was never meant to do. Misused? Absolutely. Misunderstood? All the time. But the framework itself? Not the villain here.It is tiresome to see so many people complaining without truly understanding the purpose and intention of the frameworks.How to connect with AgileDad:- [website] https://www.agiledad.com/- [instagram] https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/- [facebook] https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/- [Linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/
In this episode, I share a fresh perspective on why rest is essential for productivity—through the lens of agriculture. Just as farmers rotate crops and allow fields to rest to maintain soil health, we too need scheduled breaks to protect our focus, creativity, and long-term output.I talk about:The silent crisis of soil depletion and what it teaches us about sustainability.Why rotating crops and letting fields rest is the perfect metaphor for how we should structure our own work.The importance of proactively scheduling breaks (like cool-off weeks) before life forces us to rest through burnout, sickness, or accidents.What a cool-off week actually looks like in practice: serving clients, answering emails, maintaining—but not pushing for new projects.How to embrace being a “B minus” worker for a week and why your B minus is probably still a solid B.This episode is about reframing rest not as laziness, but as a vital strategy for longevity, health, and sustainable productivity.00:00 Introduction to the Cool Off Week00:34 Understanding Soil Health and Agriculture02:18 The Importance of Resting Fields03:16 Government Initiatives and Soil Health04:03 Applying Agricultural Principles to Productivity05:24 Practical Tips for a Cool Off Week07:04 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsJoin the Focus Room: https://monthlymethod.com/focus-room/ ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
The Sunday Triple M NRL Catch Up - Paul Kent, Gorden Tallis, Ryan Girdler, Anthony Maroon
Tony Squires is joined by Wade Graham, Nathan Hindmarsh and Brent Read who dissected the Roosters big win over the Storm, the Warriors loss against the Eels and what happens at the Newcastle Knights next year? Plus, Bulldogs coach Cameron Ciraldo joined us after the win against the Panthers. Ready's Mail, Tony's Quiz, Believe It Or Not along with plenty more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Tony Squires is joined by Wade Graham, Nathan Hindmarsh and Brent Read who dissected the Roosters big win over the Storm, the Warriors loss against the Eels and what happens at the Newcastle Knights next year? Plus, Bulldogs coach Cameron Ciraldo joined us after the win against the Panthers. Ready's Mail, Tony's Quiz, Believe It Or Not along with plenty more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Salum Abdul-Rahman: Learning to Communicate Value in Public and Non-Profit Sectors' Product Development Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Systematic Value Communicator Salum describes working with a Product Owner who had a PhD in data science on a public sector visualization project. This exceptional PO was extremely systematic in working with stakeholders and possessed a unique ability to bridge abstract concepts with concrete implementations. In the public sector, where monetary feedback is absent, this PO excelled at thinking about value achievement and communicating it effectively to the team. They had the magical capability to involve stakeholders while demystifying complex requirements, helping the team understand not just engagement metrics but how their work would change society and the world. The Bad Product Owner: The Absentee Specialist The most common anti-pattern Salum encounters is the absentee Product Owner - typically a specialist assigned to the PO role while maintaining their full-time job as a domain expert. With only 10-20% time allocation, these POs lack the capacity to fulfill their responsibilities effectively. They often don't have the time or knowledge to develop essential PO skills, requiring extensive hand-holding to understand even basic concepts like user stories. Salum's approach involves booking time directly in their calendar for backlog refinement sessions and providing comprehensive guidance to help them understand the role, though this intensive support is necessary due to their limited availability for skill development. In this segment, we refer to the concept of ‘enshitification' by Cory Doctorow, and refer to Tom Gilb's bonus episode on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast. Self-reflection Question: How do you ensure your Product Owner has both the time allocation and skill development needed to truly serve the team and stakeholders effectively? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Salum Abdul-Rahman: The SECI Model of Knowledge Management Applied to Team Retrospectives Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Salum explains how the key role for Scrum Masters is to help teams develop themselves to the point where they can learn and grow without constant guidance. Success means building team resilience and operational capability while knowing when to step back. He emphasizes the importance of recalibration workshops to maintain shared understanding and the balance between supporting teams and challenging them to become self-sufficient. When teams reach this level of maturity, Scrum Masters can focus their efforts elsewhere, knowing the team has developed the capability to continue evolving independently. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The 5-Stage Retro Format From the book "Agile Retrospectives," this format captures the complete learning process and aligns beautifully with knowledge management principles. Salum connects the three central phases of this format to the SECI model of knowledge management, particularly referencing Nonaka and Takeuchi's work in "The Knowledge Creating Company." This retrospective structure helps teams create new knowledge and behavioral change by following a systematic approach that transforms individual insights into collective team learning and action. In this segment, we also refer to the seminal article by Takeuchi and Nonaka: “The New New Product Development Game”, which originated the work on Scrum as a framework. Self-reflection Question: How do you recognize when your team has developed enough self-sufficiency that your role as facilitator can evolve or step back? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Nigel Thurlow previously served as the first-ever Chief of Agile at Toyota, where he created the World Agility Forum award-winning “Scrum the Toyota Way” and co-created The Flow System™, a holistic FLOW-based approach to delivering customer-first value built on a foundation of The Toyota Production System.Throughout his career, Thurlow has gained an enviable recognition as a leading expert in Lean and Agile methods, tools, techniques, and approaches. He specializes in developing effective organizational designs and operating models for organizations to embrace both Lean and Agile concepts. By leveraging knowledge from various sources, Thurlow helps optimize organizations to enact successful, long-lasting transformational strategies in applying Lean thinking, Agile techniques, and Scrum – while combining complexity thinking, distributive leadership, and team science, represented by a triple helix structure known as the DNA of Organizations™.As of 2024, he has trained over 8,500 people worldwide in Scrum, Agile, Lean, Flow, Complexity, and organizational design. Thurlow is a Professional Scrum Trainer (PST).An instinctive problem solver, Nigel Thurlow takes a method-agnostic, cross-industry approach in helping organizations find the right tools, methods, and approaches to overcome challenges within their contextual situation. He advocates for the fact that there is not a one-size-fits-all prescriptive approach to agility; all tools have utility, but they also have contextual limitations. From this vantage point, Thurlow equips an organization's people to become an army of problem solvers, expanding their perception of what they do so they can better understand and prepare for potential challenges along the way.Thurlow is currently the Chief Executive Officer at The Flow Consortium, a collection of highly regarded companies in the Lean and Agile world — as well as the scientific and academic communities at large. The Flow Consortium strives to expand the boundaries of current Lean and Agile thinking through the understanding of complexity thinking, distributed leadership, and team science by tapping into the minds of top thought leaders from these concentrations.While at Toyota, Thurlow worked to frame Scrum as more than just a standardized behavioral process by applying and advancing fundamental methodologies to spur innovative, forward-thinking solutions to Toyota's most complex challenges. He also founded the Toyota Agile Academy in 2018. These efforts signaled a transformative phase for Toyota, leading the company towards organizational agility and helping its team members better understand this concept in an automotive production context.Additionally, Thurlow has been a board presence at the University of North Texas since 2019, serving as an advisor to the Department of Information Science Board and a member of the College of Information Leadership Board. He has also served as the President of CDQ LLC since 2012. Prior to that, Thurlow held executive coaching and training roles for companies including Vodafone, Lumen Technologies, Scrum, Inc., GE Power & Water, 3M Healthcare Information Systems, Bose Corporation, The TJX Companies, Inc. – as well as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has also taught Scrum at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).As an author, Thurlow was named a Forbes top 10 author for co-authoring the book “The Flow System™” in 2020. He has recently co-authored “The Flow System Playbook” published in 2023 which presents a practical study guide and reference book to all the concepts covered in the first book.His other notable publications include “Introducing the Flow System (2019)” and “TPS and the Age of Destruction (2019).” He is also the co-author of The Flow Guide and The Flow System Principles and Key Attributes Guidebook. Recently, Thurlow co-authored “The...
The Sunday Triple M NRL Catch Up - Paul Kent, Gorden Tallis, Ryan Girdler, Anthony Maroon
Wade Graham, James Graham & Emma Lawrence are in to look ahead to a massive weekend of footy! We talk the coach sackings at the Knights & Titans, look at the Roosters involvement in the Cheese saga & a devastating blow for Adam Reynolds heading into finals. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Wade Graham, James Graham & Emma Lawrence are in to look ahead to a massive weekend of footy! We talk the coach sackings at the Knights & Titans, look at the Roosters involvement in the Cheese saga & a devastating blow for Adam Reynolds heading into finals. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Salum Abdul-Rahman: From Lunch Conversations to Company-Wide Change—The Power of Creating Communities of Practice Within Organizations Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Salum shares how he organically built an Agile community within his company by recognizing a shared need for discussion and learning. Starting as a software developer who took on Scrum Master tasks, he felt isolated in his Agile journey. Rather than waiting for formal training or external events, he sent out a simple invite on the company Slack for a lunch discussion during a work day. People showed up, and what began as informal conversations about different approaches to Scrum and Kanban evolved into monthly gatherings. Over time, this grassroots community grew to organize company-wide events and even found new leadership when Salum moved on, demonstrating the power of identifying shared needs and taking initiative to address them. Self-reflection Question: What shared learning needs exist in your organization that you could address by simply reaching out and organizing informal discussions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Chris Ghanbarzadeh, Senior Director of Engineering at Game Changer, joins the show to unpack the shifting landscape of mobile development. From balancing quality with speed to navigating the rise of AI-assisted engineering, Chris shares how teams can adapt to new tools, methodologies, and user expectations. If you're building mobile products—or leading teams that do—this conversation will sharpen how you think about stability, velocity, and the future of software development.Key Takeaways• Why stability is the true driver of long-term speed in mobile development• How shifts away from native development are reshaping efficiency and delivery• The role of AI toolchains in accelerating experimentation and engineering workflows• Why leaders should avoid top-down mandates when introducing AI and instead create space for experimentation• How AI may reshape software methodologies, from Scrum to requirements gathering and beyondTimestamped Highlights01:45 – The eternal challenge of balancing quality with velocity in mobile engineering06:42 – Why “stability is speed” and how tech debt slows teams down09:15 – The move away from native development and how it impacts engineering teams13:27 – Experimenting with AI toolchains and finding the right balance of autonomy and structure18:05 – Standardization vs freedom: the future of AI tools in the enterprise22:23 – Will AI change the very way we build and support software?A standout moment“Stability is speed. If you're constantly chasing velocity without shoring up quality, you end up slower in the long run.”Resources Mentioned• Game Changer app – scorekeeping and live streaming for youth sportsPro TipsGive your teams space to experiment with AI tools. Celebrate learning—even when experiments fail—so engineers build confidence and marketable skills for the future.Call to ActionEnjoyed this conversation? Follow the show for more insights from engineering and tech leaders, and share this episode with a colleague who's navigating mobile development or exploring AI in their workflows.
Even the most capable professionals can struggle in interviews. In this episode, Brian and job interview coach Tali Shlafer break down why, and what to do instead. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian welcomes interview coach Tali Shlafer for a practical, clear-eyed conversation about how to approach job interviews as a skill, not a personality trait. Tali shares why being great at your job doesn’t automatically translate to interview success, especially in collaborative fields like product development, Agile coaching, and project management. She outlines a straightforward way to prepare for interviews by identifying the real challenges behind a role and building stories that speak directly to them, without sounding rehearsed or robotic. From reframing “bragging” as problem-solving to handling tough questions with clarity and self-awareness, this episode is full of grounded advice for professionals navigating their next move. References and resources mentioned in the show: Tali Shlafer Free Job Interview Tip Vault Tali's LinkedIn Tali's Instagram #93: The Rise of Human Skills and Agile Acumen with Evan Leybourn #111: Adapting to the Future of Work with Heather McGowan Blog: Entry-Level Scrum Masters: Seven Tips on How to Get Your First Scrum Master Job by Mike Cohn AI Prompt Pack for Product Owners & Scrum Masters Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is a Certified Scrum Trainer®, Certified Scrum Professional®, Certified ScrumMaster®, and Certified Scrum Product Owner®, and host of the Agile Mentors Podcast training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Tali Shlafer is a certified interview coach who helps high performers turn nerves into clarity and confidence so they can land roles they’re truly excited about. Her practical frameworks—rooted in psychology, communication, and performance—ditch the gimmicks and empower candidates to show up as their best, most authentic selves. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian Milner (00:00) Welcome in everyone. We're back for another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I'm with you as always, Brian Milner. And today I have Miss Tali Schläufer with us. Welcome in Tali. Tali Shlafer (00:11) Thanks, Brian. I'm excited to be here. Brian Milner (00:13) Very excited to have Tali with us. She is a job interview coach so you can kind of See the direction we're going in here one of her tagline is that she she helps you know professionals get offers they're really excited about and She's got some really interesting insights here because I know in today's world in today's environment There is a lot of shifting going on. There's a lot of transitioning between different places of work. And that interview is always kind of the forgotten portion of it, right? You get past all the other stuff, you get to the point where you're in the interview. So Tali, from your perspective, I know you see and help a lot of people with that portion of it. What are some of the biggest mistakes that people make that you see routinely as you help people prepare for their interviews? Tali Shlafer (01:01) Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that you just mentioned where, you know, people really struggling with the interview piece, you do all this work in your job search to update your resume, update your LinkedIn network, all this stuff, and then you get to the interview and it's like, okay, we're close. It's actually the interview is actually a completely different stage than anything else. And one mistake that I often see people making is just the mindset around interviews. A lot of people think, if I'm great at my job, I'll just interview really well. Like I'm a top performer. I'm good to go. But interviewing is actually a skill that's completely separate from anything else we do in the workplace. It requires you to be able to articulate what you've done in the workplace and the results and the impact that you brought in a way that most of us don't have to do in our day-to-day jobs. And you have to do it better than everybody else. So just because you are a top performer doesn't necessarily mean that that translates into your ability. to talk about yourself and talk about your career, especially in a way that resonates with the specific job culture and the specific job that you're applying for. So I think that's kind of the top mistake that I would just from a mindset level, is seeing interviews as something that you're naturally good at rather than as a skill that you can really develop and build in order to set yourself up for success. Brian Milner (02:12) Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point because, know, just because, as you said, just because I'm a top performer in something that I do, have a huge skill set or knowledge area that I'm really good at, doesn't mean that I'm necessarily good at an interview process because it is kind of a whole set of other communication skills that you have to have in that kind of environment. I know when I've talked to people about it sometimes, they feel sort of this, I don't know, dichotomy a little bit back and forth about... I know I'm supposed to plug myself here. I know I'm supposed to kind of brag a little bit, but I also don't want to sound cocky. I don't want to sound, you know, I don't know, just brash or anything. How do you help people or what do you advise people about in that area? Tali Shlafer (03:06) Yeah, and I think this is really common for people who are top performers and people who are very team oriented and collaboration oriented. It's really difficult for those folks to go, hey, I did all this stuff by myself and to kind of put themselves in that spotlight. So it's a very common challenge. It's also very common for folks who are really good at their job and have been doing this for a long time to actually be able to articulate. what that secret sauce is, like why they're actually good at their job, which is part of the challenge. Remind me the question that you just asked. Brian Milner (03:38) No, I'm just, in talking about kind of like how people prepare for these kind of things, the way they communicate this stuff, sometimes it's kind of more this worry about am I being a little too overbearing or brash in how I'm bragging about myself? Will I come off seeming cocky? or overconfident, how do they walk that fine line? Tali Shlafer (04:03) Yeah, I think this is a really big mindset piece where a lot of people who are those top performers and are very collaborative in nature are afraid to talk about themselves and be in the spotlight and kind of take credit where, especially in something like in the agile world or project management, product management, it's a very collaborative space. people are afraid to like, people are afraid to say, here's what I did. And Part of the mindset shift that I really encourage clients and job seekers to have is rather than to see it as, hey, the interview is all about you and the spotlight's on you and you're a used car salesman trying to promo yourself and it feels really icky so we don't want to do it. We end up not doing it at all. Think of it rather as you're trying to help this employer solve a problem. You're on the same side of the table with them. You're essentially a consultant for them. Their problem is... Hey, I've got this role. I have this challenge in my company. I have this opportunity. I have this thing that I need help with and I need to find who's going to be able to help me do that. And so you're essentially being an advisor for them and sharing here's how my previous experiences and what I've done in the past might be able to help you with your challenges. So it's really, it's really a partnership type of conversation where you're exploring, well, what are you struggling with? and how, let me share ways that I think I might be able to help. I think having that mindset is a lot more helpful for people who are more collaborative in nature. I think there's also a part of it that is getting really clear on how your work has actually delivered results. Being really confident, a lot of folks who are more collaborative in nature, which is a lot of people that I work with. tend to really get stuck in the we. So they say, we deliver this, we manage this, we strategize in this way. And then the interviewer ends up losing the thread of, well, what did this person sitting across from me do? What did they lead? What did they manage versus what did they do collaboratively? so getting really clear and even getting some language around how to talk about your contributions with respect to the team. So saying, I led this strategy session or I facilitated the collaboration of this, or I made the suggestion to people who then made a decision. Those kind of nuanced pieces of communication can help us feel more comfortable with actually owning our story in a way that doesn't feel gross. Brian Milner (06:39) Yeah, I think you make a great point there about the partnership aspect of it because having been on both sides of the table there, I know when I was hiring people as a software manager of some kind, the thought is always when the person comes in, you want to hire them. When they've reached that stage, when you finally bring them in, you're excited about the people that you decided to bring in and you're pulling for them. You want them to actually be successful. So I think it's important to keep that in mind too, that they want you to be successful. They want that role filled or they wouldn't have put out the job wreck and all the other things. If you, so let's just kind of talk through on a practical level. If you, you've done the work, you've put out the resume, you've got the call, maybe you've even gone through, well, I guess we should talk about that as well. Kind of the difference between a virtual or phone interview and an in-person interview. Is there a difference in level of prep or in how you, you know. tricks to being more successful if it's virtual versus in person. Tali Shlafer (07:50) I think the preparation itself should be the same. At the end of the day, your preparation should be about what are the challenges that this company, that this organization is facing and how does this role help solve those challenges? What are the skills? What are the top five skills that I need to demonstrate? Hard and soft skills. And in order to show them that I can be the top performer for this role and what are stories that I can share for each one of those skills. to prove that, I have what it takes, I can actually walk the walk as well. I've gotten results in this area before. So the prep work itself in the days leading up to the interview should be more or less the same. I would say the difference between a virtual interview versus an in-person interview is just people's comfort level. I think a lot of people are really comfortable in in-person interviews because it feels like you're actually talking to a human, right? You have a full-size person sitting across from the table from you. So it's a lot more comfortable. And I think even though through COVID, we had a lot more virtual conversations, there's still a very performative feeling element to it when it comes to virtual interviews. So one of my top tips for virtual interviews is please turn off your self view. So if you're in the Zoom call and if you're in a meeting, because it makes people so nervous and self-conscious. So when you get on that Zoom call, that Teams call, whatever platform you're using, make sure you're in the frame, right? Make sure that your lighting is good, all that stuff, and then turn off that camera so that you're not just watching yourself and being super self-conscious the entire time. Because think about it, in what other context in your life, when you're having a conversation with someone, do you have a mirror that you're looking at? Brian Milner (09:36) Right, right, I mean, if you're in their interview room, unless there's a mirror all the way around, you're not really getting that view. And even if you did, you probably wouldn't watch yourself in the mirror the entire time. So yeah, that's a great tip. And I think you're absolutely right. It can lead to being very, very self-conscious then. I think it's, I want to go back a little bit to the prep because I think your tip there is a really important thing is to try to understand the challenges, understand what it is they're looking for. And it just struck me as you were saying that it seems very similar to, in my kind of line of work, I do a lot of consulting work with people. And when I have a client that's a prospective client, it's almost the same thing. where you have to research a little bit about the company ahead of time. If you're doing kind of a sales call prior to the engagement, it's very similar. And I just thought about that. There is an overlap there between that and job interviews because you are selling yourself. You are selling your services to that company. Tali Shlafer (10:36) And a lot of people, here's another mistake that a lot of people, a lot of well-meaning people make is as part of their prep work, going online and finding a bunch of questions that they can then prepare for. So it's a very, I kind of call it whack-a-mole where, hey, let me try to figure out all the possible questions I might get asked and write out answers for those. Brian Milner (10:51) Ha ha. Tali Shlafer (10:59) That might get some people results. And if it's getting you results, that's great. But what I really encourage people to do is really reverse engineer your talking points from the job description, from what you know, even, you know, once you've had the conversation with the recruiter, you know, a little bit more about the position than maybe is even listed on the job description. So compile everything that you know about this opportunity and figure out, okay, what are the most important things for me to be able to articulate rather than just guessing at. random questions that the internet says you might get asked. Brian Milner (11:32) Yeah, that's a great point. I know we all want to get past that and get to the job, but I think there's also an element there of, let's say you do memorize these questions and they just happen to ask you the exact questions you had prepared for. If you don't really have that knowledge, then you're not going to really do well in that job even if you get it. So it's almost a blessing to not get that job, you know, if you didn't know that information, because they're going to be counting on you to do that. And you're not going to be a you're not going to do your job well then. Yeah. Tali Shlafer (12:06) Yeah, and the memorizing piece that you just mentioned is really, really easy for people to fall into the trap of trying to memorize their answers, especially with chat GPT and AI. Everybody's thinking, well, let's use these AI tools to help us come up with interview answers. so we plug in, job seekers will plug in, here's a bunch of questions that I might get. Look at my resume, tell me how can I answer these questions? And it feels safe. It feels like, this very smart robot or technology is gonna say this in a better way than I can. Brian Milner (12:36) you Tali Shlafer (12:40) But it really sets people up for failure most of the time because number one, most people aren't good at memorizing things, right? Most of us don't have to do that as our job. So most of us are really bad at memorizing. Number two, it makes you sound like a robot. It doesn't sound human. You lose the attention of the person who you're talking with. And number three, doesn't when you just memorize answers rather than thinking about it as what are talking points that I can riff off, riff on and kind of reuse and recycle and tell stories with. When you memorize, it puts you in the position of, well, yeah, it's great if they ask you that exact question. And some questions you will get asked, like tell me about yourself, you're going to get 99 % of the time. But for the most part, if you memorize a set of 10 questions and one of those questions gets a slight variation, or they ask a question that's not on there, you end up panicking. You don't know how to think on your feet because you're reliant on your tool. You've used AI or you've used your script as a strategy rather than a tool. Brian Milner (13:42) Yeah, that's a great point. I'm kind of wanting to get your take on this because this is a big thing that I know often comes up in these kinds of interviews is those questions that we all hate to get that you just know, no one ever knows how to answer these things. So I'm just curious how you advise people, you know, the awful question like, you know, give me some of your weaknesses or give me some of the things that you're not good at. How do you advise people to handle those kind of questions when they get asked in interviews? Tali Shlafer (14:14) Yeah, so there are definitely some questions that we tend to hear more often than others, especially when it comes to those recruiter interviews. The tell me about yourself, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Tell me about a time you had to deal with a conflict. Tell me about a time you had to deal with a mistake. Those are pretty common, I would say, in that initial recruiter conversation. It's always an interview in my book. The weakness question I know is one of the that and the tell me about yourself is what really stresses people out. Brian Milner (14:40) Ha Tali Shlafer (14:43) My general advice for the weakness is actually something that I heard Adam Grant, who's an organizational psychology at Wharton share, which is pick something that is real but not disqualifying. So if you're an Agilist, your weakness should probably not be scrum or not be, you know, understanding business requirements. But it could be something like public speaking. Brian Milner (15:00) Ha Tali Shlafer (15:08) Or it could be something like delegating, where, you know, it's something real and it's not... It's something authentic. Authenticity is really, really important, especially nowadays in interviews. But it doesn't stop you from being able to perform well. So what I typically advise is pick a weakness, like Adam Grant says, that's real but not disqualifying. And this is important, and where a lot of people miss out, share what are you doing to actually address it? Because what we want to do, the point of that question isn't tell us what's wrong with you so we can judge you and disqualify you from the job. It's the subcontext of it is do you have self-awareness? Are you somebody who is aware enough and humble enough to know your shortcomings? And are you someone who's proactive about fixing them? and about becoming a better person. So the second part of that answer should be, well, what have you done to try to improve? What are specific steps that you've taken in order to improve? Brian Milner (16:09) Yeah, that's a great response. I know I've heard the traditional, you try to say one of your strengths as, I guess my weakness is I work too hard, like that kind of thing. Which I agree, it's not sincere. If I'm hearing that and I'm interviewing someone, that could disqualify him in my book, because I could think, this person is not going be honest with me. ⁓ Tali Shlafer (16:20) Yeah. or the I'm a perfectionist piece? The most common answer to that question. Brian Milner (16:33) Alright, I'm a perfectionist, right? Yeah, exactly. Well, you hit on the other big one too, the tell me about yourself. How do you advise people to handle that? Do you have a script in mind? you kind of detail out a couple of things? What's important to hit when someone asks you to just tell me about yourself? Tali Shlafer (16:54) Yeah, I'm a big fan of formulas over scripts. So I'll share my formula, but let me share a couple things that derail people. Let's kind of establish what's not helpful. And then we can kind of talk about this formula, which by the way, lots of different career coaches have different formulas. There's not necessarily one that works. It's just pick something and learn to do it really well. A lot of people will go in and start well. I graduated from the University of Washington in 1995, and they give kind of their entire history. And we lose the interviewer right away when we do that. So rather than giving them a chronological history of everything that's happened in your career and asking them, when we do that, we are essentially asking them, hey, here's all this information and data. You make sense of it. You figure out how it's relevant to you. I think it's actually really kind to use a formula to help them understand. Here's everything you need to know about me as it pertains to this role. So taking everything, taking your history and your career through the filter of what is important to demonstrate for this role. So the formula that I teach is sharing a super quick background. Hey, I'm Tali, I've been a project manager for the last 10 years. That's not true, that's not, let me reset that. So I think starting with a very brief. Brian Milner (18:12) You Tali Shlafer (18:16) sentence about yourself, your relevant role, how long you've had experience. Hey, I'm John. I've been project manager for the last 10 years, sharing the three key skills that you need to have in order to succeed at this job. And for each of those three skills, can you list an accomplishment or a metric or a success story? And we're not telling a whole story. We're just giving them here's the highlight reel, here's the headline, and then you'll click into all of those stories later. So quick little background about yourself, three main skills that you've developed that are relevant for this role, and super high level accomplishment to demonstrate those skills. So that's a little bit, that kind of is the first half, and that talks more about your previous experiences. And then in the second half of this answer, we want to pivot it to the future. So the first half is really about the past, it's about yourself. And then in the second half, we want to pivot to the future. what are you looking for in your next role? And hopefully that thing is also in that, that whatever you're looking for in your next role should dovetail really nicely into what they're offering as a company and as, as a, as an organization. What are you looking for specifically in your next role? And why are you so excited about interviewing with this company? And we want to share something really specific that We want to share something specific that feels personal. Where a lot of people go wrong is they'll share something like, I really want growth in my next role. And I'm excited about this team because I know you guys really value innovation. That doesn't really tell us anything. So we want one level of detail lower. So I'm really excited. What I really want in my next role is more leadership opportunities, so opportunities to mentor. And I'm really excited about this particular opportunities because I looked on your website, I looked at your blog posts, I looked at your, you know, CEO's posts that they share on LinkedIn. And I can tell that this is a really important part of your culture is being able to mentor people up into higher positions, right? Getting that specific, and there's not a right answer. I remember when I was interviewing for... out of college, I was interviewing for T-Mobile for an internship. And my answer was, I've talked to a lot of people, I've networked with a lot of people at T-Mobile. And one thing that really strikes me is the fact that a lot of people will leave for local companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and then they come back. There's a lot of people who spend a lot of time here. really does. There's a lot of loyalty and the culture, like I shared things that are specific to the culture and there's not a right answer here. It just needs to be. specific and it needs to be something that when you talk about it you kind of start getting butterflies because that's contagious. Brian Milner (21:07) That's awesome. Well, I want to ask about kind of the other half of the interview or the other portion of the interview as well. They, you know, I often hear people say, you know, you should walk into the interview understanding that it's a two way interview. They're interviewing you, but you're interviewing them as well because you want to know, is this the right place for me? So I can make the right decision about where I'm going to end up. What kind of things do you advise people to ask about or to focus on? What are some things that might expose some hidden things about the organization, warning signs or anything like that that might pop up in an interview to ask about? Tali Shlafer (21:45) That's a really good question. think one thing, it really depends on the opportunity and what you're looking for. So I don't think that there's one magic question that if you ask it, oh, the person's gonna be super impressed. Let me back up. What I really like about what you just said, is the framing of the questions that you ask at the end as a two-way conversation and as a way for you to understand more about the company so you can see if it's a good fit. I think a lot of people, especially in tough job markets, tend to kind of close their eyes and hope they get something and they almost blind themselves to the fact that they need to also do the work to make sure that it's a good fit. Or I see a lot of people who go, well, what can I ask that's impressive? What questions can I ask that's going to really wow them at the end, rather than seeing it as an opportunity to really understand what they offer more? So I would sit down and prioritize what is really important for you in a culture. if getting feedback, if growth is important for you, making sure to ask about, can you tell me about recently on your team, somebody who was promoted or how you helped somebody grow in the company? The best way that we can learn about something is through examples. The best proof that somebody values something is through the examples that they share. So we want to ask, kind of like you hear behavioral questions, you get asked, like, tell me about a time when. You can also use that, figure out what's important for you, and then create. Ask questions specifically about those things. One question that I think can be really helpful to get you to get a sense of what kind of person succeeds on this team and what the team really values is kind of the inverse of that. can you tell me about, can you tell me about what type of person doesn't do well here? Because then if they say, you know, The type of person who doesn't do well here isn't committed to working 60 hours a week. They expect to take their vacations and not be able to unplug. That kind of being able to hear who isn't successful gives you some context around some of their values as well. Brian Milner (24:01) Yeah, that's an excellent question because I agree. Presumably, this is someone you're going to be working with if you get the job. That immediate relationship, think, is going to really be impactful on the expectations, that sort of thing. Yeah, if I'm interviewing and I ask that kind of question, and they do come back and say, yeah, the person who doesn't work 60 hours or anything. Yeah, that's a good sign that maybe this is, I don't know, unless I enjoy working 60 hours a week, that maybe this is not the right cultural fit for me. So that's an excellent question, because I think that would expose some of that behind the scenes stuff, cultural things. ⁓ Tali Shlafer (24:42) And you really want to ask about questions about your dynamic with the manager. So what kind of people succeed under them? Because that's the number one people. I believe I'd have to fact check this, but you always hear that the number one people reason people don't like their jobs or people leave their jobs is because of their boss. So you want to understand you're essentially going on a date with them and you want to understand what is it like to hang out with you for 40 hours a week? Brian Milner (25:05) you Tali Shlafer (25:09) So asking specific questions to really understand what's their working style, what are their expectations, what are their positive experiences, what does feedback look like? Is it a once a year thing? Is it a every time we touch base during our one-on-ones you get feedback? That is really important. The other thing that's important to think about is do you understand the role itself? Like what questions do you have? What gaps in your understanding do you have about the role? Really clarifying to make sure that you know what you're signing up for. Brian Milner (25:40) Yeah, that's a great response as well. I know I remember from back in the day getting told that it's a good kind of question to ask what would success look like? If you really got someone to nail this and you were really happy with the hire and it was perfect, what would be the biggest thing that would contribute to that? And I've always liked that approach as well because it kind of gives you the expectation from the start to know here's what's most important in that manager's mind of what they're looking for. Yeah, just in my memory of interviewing people, would say I've never, I don't think I've ever not hired someone because of a question that they asked at the end, but... I have felt sometimes like when they don't ask questions that they're a little unprepared. Tali Shlafer (26:30) Yeah, and I think it, I think part of the not asking questions, one is being not prepared, not thinking thoroughly about the job. But it's also a little bit of a sense of desperation, like, I've been applying for four months, I don't care, I'm willing to take anything. So I don't have questions, because let me just take any first job that comes available. There's kind of that mindset. And I think it manifests as, I don't have any questions. And I think Brian Milner (26:48) You Tali Shlafer (26:58) People can kind of feel that when you're not critical, when you're not trying to figure out, am I really going to be able to succeed here? People kind of pick up on that and it either looks like desperation or it looks like disengagement and disinterest. We want people not, we don't want to hire the first person off the street who can do the job. We want to hire somebody who's excited to be there and who we know isn't going to leave six months later when they find something better. Brian Milner (27:23) Yeah, that's really good. Well, this has been really enlightening. I think there's a lot of gems in here that I think people can apply. we all find ourselves in that position from time to time of having to interview for things. As I said, even as a consultant, it's an interview when you talk to a potential new client. So I think these are all really great tips for that. We're going to make sure that there's contact information for Tali at the show notes of this so you can get a hold of her. Anything you want to shout out about, any places you want to point people to to get in contact with you? Tali Shlafer (27:56) So for the last few years, I've been posting usually about two short form videos a day to LinkedIn, all the social medias. Over the last couple of years, I've posted over 700 short form videos on social media. I've actually had over a hundred million views on LinkedIn, which is really crazy. Somebody recognized me at the dog park the other day, which was wild. But I created an interview tip-ball that took the best... The most helpful videos the ones that have gone viral received the best feedback gotten people the biggest results in their interviews And I compiled them all in one Interview tip bolt so that's my little thing that I like to share with people You'll see everything in there from how to tell me about yourself To answering why do people ramble and what other mistakes are people making? and also special tips for senior leaders and executives. So that's my little freebie that I like to share out for folks who are interested in the stuff that I'm talking about. Brian Milner (28:56) Awesome, awesome. we will definitely make that available to people in the show notes and links to your socials as well so people can follow you and stay on top of your tips as they come out. So thank you so much for coming on, Tali, and I appreciate you spending some time with us and sharing your knowledge with us. Tali Shlafer (29:13) Thanks so much, Brian. It was a pleasure.
Feeling overwhelmed by the constant change in software engineering? After 25 years in the industry, CTO Joris Kuipers shares a pragmatic roadmap to not just survive, but achieve true mastery in your craft, whether you're a junior developer or a seasoned architect.In this episode, we cover:How to focus your learning when new technologies emerge dailyThe ideal environments for junior and senior engineers to thriveWhy rapid, frequent deployment is SAFER than slow, careful releasesThe critical feedback loops you must have to accelerate your careerHow to move beyond rigid processes like Scrum to deliver real valueThis is for any software engineer who wants to stop just "doing the work" and start building a deeply fulfilling and successful career by mastering their craft.Connect with Joris:https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkuipersFull episode on YouTube ▶️https://youtu.be/pNtkOZuWetgBeyond Coding Podcast with
Salum Abdul-Rahman: From Isolation to Integration—Rebuilding Agile Team Connection For Remote Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Salum describes working with a grocery ecommerce team during COVID that fell into the trap of prioritizing individual convenience over team collaboration. Remote work led team members to design their work around personal preferences, with the lead developer becoming increasingly isolated and unresponsive to team communication. This anti-pattern of "what works for me" over "what works for the whole team" created significant dysfunction. Despite management intervention, the situation required creative solutions like organizing face-to-face sessions and shared working sessions with digital whiteboards to rebuild team cohesion. Featured Book of the Week: Agile Retrospectives One of the most important roles of Scrum Masters is to help teams develop themselves. Salum emphasizes that you can't tell the team what to do - you have to help them discover it themselves. "Agile Retrospectives" provides the foundation for running meaningful retrospectives that become the key tool for team self-development. The book's emphasis on variation and building retrospectives to match your team's needs and maturity level makes it essential for empowering teams to grow and evolve continuously. Self-reflection Question: How might your team's current work arrangements prioritize individual convenience over collective effectiveness, and what steps could you take to shift this balance? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Salum Abdul-Rahman: The Expert Who Couldn't Connect: An Agile Team Integration Challenge Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Salum shares a challenging situation where a software architect with deep expertise struggled to integrate with the team. Despite the architect's technical knowledge, his expert-based communication style and inability to justify reasoning created friction with other developers. The conflict escalated when the architect disengaged from teamwork and ultimately left the company. This experience highlights the importance of understanding organizational dynamics in large corporations and recognizing when separation might be the best solution for everyone involved. In this episode, we refer to Nonviolent Communication, a topic we've discussed often here on the podcast. Self-reflection Question: How do you balance respecting expertise while ensuring all team members communicate in ways that foster collaboration rather than create hierarchies? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
The Sunday Triple M NRL Catch Up - Paul Kent, Gorden Tallis, Ryan Girdler, Anthony Maroon
It’s Tony Squires, Nathan Hindmarsh, Wade Graham and Michael Chammas discussing the last 7 days of rugby league. Michael Chammas talks us through his Grand Final result last night. We chat about the Raiders unforgettable finish in Mudgee, a strong defensive effort by the Storm, and how the young guns fired for Souths. Storm halfback Jonah Pezet and Raiders captain Joe Tapine stop by for a chat, and we also get on the blower to Brent Read halfway through his son’s football Grand Final. Plus we discuss the NRL rejecting Tallis as Kangaroos cultural advisor, the ringworm and boil epidemic in Brisbane, and what happens next to Sea Eagles coach Anthony Seibold. Tony’s Quiz, Ask Hindy and Believe It Or Not? all brings together this weeks show.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Irene Castagnotto: Building Bridges—How Great Product Owners Create Team Alignment Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Building Trust Through Transparency and Purpose Irene emphasizes that exceptional Product Owners excel at building trust with their teams by consistently sharing the "why" behind decisions and features. They trust their teams completely and ensure that team members understand the purpose and reasoning behind every request. This transparency creates a foundation of mutual trust where teams feel confident in the Product Owner's direction. Great Product Owners use moments when features don't work as expected as opportunities to explore and reinforce the underlying purpose, turning potential setbacks into learning experiences that strengthen team understanding and alignment. The Bad Product Owner: When Stories Replace Truth Irene witnessed a Product Owner who, when facing difficult client conversations without positive information to share, chose to "make up stories" rather than being transparent about challenges. This lack of honesty led to delivering something the client couldn't accept, resulting in an angry client during the demo. This anti-pattern of using "good words" instead of honest communication ultimately damages client relationships and team credibility. The lesson learned: Product Owners must be transparent with clients about what is and isn't possible, even when the news is difficult to deliver. Self-reflection Question: How do you balance protecting your team from client frustration while maintaining the transparency necessary for successful product development? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Irene Castagnotto: The Risk-Aware Scrum Master: Preventing Problems Before They Happen Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene defines success for Scrum Masters as helping teams anticipate and manage risks before they become unexpected problems. She focuses on ensuring teams don't face surprise risks during sprints and don't start work with missing requirements. Her approach includes using user story mapping with Product Owners to visualize potential risks and maintaining team happiness as a key success indicator. For Irene, creating a positive team environment is a crucial deliverable that Scrum Masters must actively work on. She emphasizes the importance of listening to team feedback and regularly assessing whether the team feels supported and engaged. In this segment, we refer to W. Edwards Deming, and his famous quote “a bad system will beat a good person, every time!” Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The Good/Bad/Risk Retrospective This retrospective format works particularly well with younger teams and uses humor to help teams discuss emotionally challenging topics. The format focuses on three key areas: what went well (Good), what didn't work (Bad), and what potential risks the team sees ahead (Risk). Irene recommends this approach because it helps teams surface risks that aren't visible to anyone else, creating opportunities to address potential problems proactively. By incorporating the language of risk into everyday conversations, teams become more aware of potential challenges and can plan accordingly. The humor element helps reduce the emotional intensity that often accompanies difficult discussions about team performance and challenges. In this segment, we refer to the book “How to Make Good Things Happen: Know Your Brain, Enhance Your Life” by Marian Rojas Estape. Self-reflection Question: How comfortable is your team with discussing risks openly, and what techniques could you use to make these conversations more approachable? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Nigel Thurlow previously served as the first-ever Chief of Agile at Toyota, where he created the World Agility Forum award-winning “Scrum the Toyota Way” and co-created The Flow System™, a holistic FLOW-based approach to delivering customer-first value built on a foundation of The Toyota Production System.Throughout his career, Thurlow has gained an enviable recognition as a leading expert in Lean and Agile methods, tools, techniques, and approaches. He specializes in developing effective organizational designs and operating models for organizations to embrace both Lean and Agile concepts. By leveraging knowledge from various sources, Thurlow helps optimize organizations to enact successful, long-lasting transformational strategies in applying Lean thinking, Agile techniques, and Scrum – while combining complexity thinking, distributive leadership, and team science, represented by a triple helix structure known as the DNA of Organizations™.As of 2024, he has trained over 8,500 people worldwide in Scrum, Agile, Lean, Flow, Complexity, and organizational design. Thurlow is a Professional Scrum Trainer (PST).An instinctive problem solver, Nigel Thurlow takes a method-agnostic, cross-industry approach in helping organizations find the right tools, methods, and approaches to overcome challenges within their contextual situation. He advocates for the fact that there is not a one-size-fits-all prescriptive approach to agility; all tools have utility, but they also have contextual limitations. From this vantage point, Thurlow equips an organization's people to become an army of problem solvers, expanding their perception of what they do so they can better understand and prepare for potential challenges along the way.Thurlow is currently the Chief Executive Officer at The Flow Consortium, a collection of highly regarded companies in the Lean and Agile world — as well as the scientific and academic communities at large. The Flow Consortium strives to expand the boundaries of current Lean and Agile thinking through the understanding of complexity thinking, distributed leadership, and team science by tapping into the minds of top thought leaders from these concentrations.While at Toyota, Thurlow worked to frame Scrum as more than just a standardized behavioral process by applying and advancing fundamental methodologies to spur innovative, forward-thinking solutions to Toyota's most complex challenges. He also founded the Toyota Agile Academy in 2018. These efforts signaled a transformative phase for Toyota, leading the company towards organizational agility and helping its team members better understand this concept in an automotive production context.Additionally, Thurlow has been a board presence at the University of North Texas since 2019, serving as an advisor to the Department of Information Science Board and a member of the College of Information Leadership Board. He has also served as the President of CDQ LLC since 2012. Prior to that, Thurlow held executive coaching and training roles for companies including Vodafone, Lumen Technologies, Scrum, Inc., GE Power & Water, 3M Healthcare Information Systems, Bose Corporation, The TJX Companies, Inc. – as well as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has also taught Scrum at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).As an author, Thurlow was named a Forbes top 10 author for co-authoring the book “The Flow System™” in 2020. He has recently co-authored “The Flow System Playbook” published in 2023 which presents a practical study guide and reference book to all the concepts covered in the first book.His other notable publications include “Introducing the Flow System (2019)” and “TPS and the Age of Destruction (2019).” He is also the co-author of The Flow Guide and The Flow System Principles and Key Attributes Guidebook. Recently, Thurlow co-authored “The Substrate Independence Theory,” a peer-reviewed scientific article
Irene Castagnotto: Timing Is Everything - Learning When Agile Teams Are Ready for Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene shares a powerful story about discovering team dependencies and proposing solutions that management initially rejected. When her team identified that Epics weren't organized to avoid dependencies between teams, they proposed using a single unified backlog to manage these challenges. Despite the logical solution, management wasn't ready to accept it. A month later, the same management team returned with the identical proposal. This experience taught Irene that timing is crucial in change management—you don't decide when the right time is; the people involved determine their own readiness. She emphasizes the importance of socializing changes early and often, collecting feedback before proposing major transformations, especially when those changes affect management structures. Self-reflection Question: How do you balance persistence with patience when you know a change is needed but the organization isn't ready to embrace it? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Lauren Jenkins is joined by Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies and Ashton Hewitt for their reaction to the Welsh Rugby Union's plans for the future of Welsh rugby. The Union say cutting the number of professional clubs from four to two is the "radical step" needed to save the game in Wales.
Join Brian and Barnaby Golden as they dig into a surprisingly common roadblock in Agile teams, the underpowered product owner, and how it quietly derails decision-making, flow, and team momentum. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian welcomes Agile coach and community contributor Barnaby Golden to explore the risks and ripple effects of placing a product owner in the role without the authority to own it. They discuss the stark difference between empowered and underpowered product owners, why availability without authority is a setup for frustration, and how misalignment at the leadership level creates more theater than agility. From trust gaps to political decision-making, Barnaby and Brian unpack the hidden reasons teams get stuck and what it takes to create real, empowered ownership that delivers actual value. References and resources mentioned in the show: Barnaby Golden #104: Mastering Product Ownership with Mike Cohn #3: What Makes a Great Product Owner? With Lance Dacy How to Engage and Help Busy Product Owners by Mike Cohn What Happens When For Product Owners Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Barnaby Golden is an experienced Scrum Master and Agile Coach with a knack for helping teams truly live Agile, not just adopt it. Lately, he’s been diving into the real-world use of AI—helping organizations, including nonprofits, turn tech hype into practical, high-impact tools with smart governance Auto-generated Transcript: Brian Milner (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors, we're back. This is another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I'm here with you as always, Brian Milner, and we have a very special guest with us today. We have Mr. Barnaby Golden with us. Barnaby, welcome in. Barnaby Golden (00:14) Thank you, it's good to be here. Brian Milner (00:16) Very excited to have Barnaby here. Barnaby is an Agile coach, also a Scrum Master. He is known to us because he is part of our Agile Mentors community. And he is an active member there and has weighed in on several issues and helped people and mentored people through things there. So we wanted to share some of the wisdom of the crowd that we have there at Agile Mentors. Just a few select people that have really contributed. and giving us some really good advice there with the podcast audience as well. So you guys can kind of hear what kind of stuff is there on the Agile Mentors discussion forums. But we were talking about topics here with Barnaby about what we were going to talk about and he proposed one that I really found intriguing. It was focusing around the underpowered product owner, the underpowered PO. And I think that's probably a good place for us to start then, Barnaby. Why don't you kind of just explain to everyone what that idea is, what you mean by the underpowered PO. Barnaby Golden (01:12) Sure, of course. So in fact, what I'll do is I'll explain it by giving you the opposite, which is what does a good, effective, powerful product owner look like? And I was working for an organization a few years back, it was a publishing organization. And we had the head of the editorial team was the product owner for a particular Scrum team. Brian Milner (01:16) Okay. Barnaby Golden (01:38) And this head of editorial had a lot of power and influence in the organization. They were pretty much a decision maker in terms of the products that the team was building. And I remember a particular conversation where the team was talking to this product owner and the team said, look, we know you want to get this, this release out this week, but we've got some technical debt. really need to fix it. And I remember the, this guy saying, look, okay. I'm going to let me think about this for a second. Okay. I can make the decision on this, which is, yep, you can have your time. I'll communicate with others within the organization. The release will be delayed. And that was such a powerful moment because in that second, the decision was made. The product owner trusted the team, the team completely trusted the product owner. And it felt slick and efficient and worked really well. Conversely, I've worked in organizations where in some way, surprisingly enough, product owner is seen as quite a junior role. So I've seen the situation where you have a whole hierarchy of product people and the most junior role in the product organization is the product owner. And what happens in that scenario is the product owner is powerless to make a lot of decisions. So they have to push them up the tree. And in that situation, the conversation between the team and the product owner is the team says, yeah, we need to do this thing. And the product owner says, okay, give me some time. Might be a day and I'll get back to you. Hopefully I can get in contact with other people within my hierarchy and the flows broken. What's the team going to do now? They're going to maybe find something alternative to work on. It's very frustrating. And you sometimes get the situation as well where the the underpowered product owner will sympathize with something the team is saying, but will not be able to make a change because they haven't got the authority to do the change. So they'll say, yeah, I agree with you. I know what you're saying. This is a really bad idea what's being suggested, but I have no choice. We have a roadmap. We've got to meet the roadmap. Brian Milner (03:45) Yeah, that's a clear picture. I agree with you that those are two stark contrasts. And what I like about the explanation is you kind of highlight the effectiveness of one versus the ineffectiveness of the other, right? It's just, it's such a dramatic difference when that person is able to make the decisions on the spot. go forward, and the team is just free to move as quickly as possible. Whereas the other one, it's just holdups. It's just delays and obstacles, roadblocks in the team's way. So yeah, a really clear picture there. Just as you were talking about this, I was thinking to myself, well, maybe one of the worthy paths for us to go down here and talking about this. is trying to understand a little bit about the why behind it. ⁓ Because I think there's, just in thinking about it, I think there's maybe several causes for this or several things that might lead to having an underpowered PO. What's been your experience? What kind of things have you seen that might contribute to an underpowered PO? Barnaby Golden (04:36) Hmm. I think the main reason, the biggest driving factor behind it is the feeling that the people with the authority to make decisions do not have time to spend with the team. So you've got your head of product or the real decision makers in the organization. They are saying, I can't spend two, three hours a week with a team. I can't go to a planning meeting. got, you know, I'm a busy person. I've got things on my schedule. So they see the product owner role as a stand-in for themselves with the team. And this stand-in has lots of time to spend with the team, which is good. And that's a powerful thing. But at the same time, if they've not got the authority to make decisions, then maybe that time is not effectively spent. Brian Milner (05:41) Yeah, it's almost as if they just want a warm body there. It's a placeholder. You're here as a placeholder for me because I can't be two places at once. I've heard a couple of things that people will frequently point to that a product owner needs to be successful. And there's sort of this dichotomy of these two things that are part of that. And that's the kind of empowered Barnaby Golden (05:44) Yeah. Brian Milner (06:05) product owner that is empowered to make decisions versus having the availability to actually be present with the team. it's always, it seems like that's a fracture point that sometimes causes this because you have the leaders who, hey, I need to make all the decisions, but I don't have the availability. and the people that they know have the availability, they don't want to empower to make the decisions. So they're kind of setting up their product owners to fail. Barnaby Golden (06:35) I think it's a classic example as well with when you want to be an agile organization, you can't just have pockets of agility. You can't just have a scrum team and say, well, that's where we'll be agile in this scrum team. The entire organization as a whole has to think in the agile mindset. And if you want to be able to adapt to change, then one of the ways you're to have to do that is you're going to have to have the decision makers close to the teams that are implementing the decisions. and so you can't have your, your cake and not eat it. If you see what I mean in terms of, you, you can't pick and choose the aspects of agile that you want. need to, as an organization, adopt the whole thing. Brian Milner (07:17) Yeah, that's always one thing I try to tell people as well is when you're selecting a product owner, when you're trying to decide who's the right person to be the product owner for this team, those are two of the things you have to really consider strongly is does this person have the availability to be here with the team and is this person empowered to make decisions? I've run up against leaders before that don't want to empower someone and Kind of the counterpoint I give them a lot of times is, I don't know, I think maybe in their head they're thinking this is giving someone free reign to make really long-term decisions on their own when that's not really the case. The product owner can be fully empowered, but the decisions that they're making on the spot are just a couple of week decisions. It's not a six month decision. there's gonna be sprint reviews, we're gonna display stuff and get feedback and we can course correct and all those things. So once you can kind of put it in that frame that it's really just a couple of weeks that you're empowering them to make decisions, I've had more success framing it that way. I don't know, what about you? Barnaby Golden (08:23) Yeah, I think that makes a huge amount of sense. The fear is loss of control. So the fear is that by empowering the product owner, they might do something which they would regard as a mistake. And they will often see themselves, because they're in a senior position, they see themselves as being responsible. So if they're responsible and the product owner makes a decision they don't like, perhaps that will reflect poorly on them. So there's a trust issue here. A good product owner is going to be consulting their stakeholders anyway. And I would think the, the senior product leadership team is part of their stakeholders. So you would hope that they were keeping them very, very up to date on their thinking that there would be no great surprises that they wouldn't do something, you know, suddenly switch from one product to a completely different product. They would always be keeping their stakeholders in the loop. And in which case. they would be building up the trust of the people around them and then you would hope that over time that they would become more empowered. Brian Milner (09:23) Yeah. Yeah. I just, I kind of wonder if that's maybe part of it, that the, they have a misunderstanding of kind of how the role works. You know, cause maybe they, maybe they see it as completely independent. This person is just making decisions on their own without consulting anyone. Maybe that's because that's how they do their job. Barnaby Golden (09:35) Yeah. Yeah. Brian Milner (09:49) So they may look at that as, know, this is how I would do it, so why wouldn't this person do it the same way? Well, that's not how it's designed. It's designed to be done in concert. Barnaby Golden (09:59) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a misunderstanding of the product owner role. And it's also a misunderstanding of why the product owner role came about, which is the reason it was there was to solve the problem of too many chefs, of too many people trying to make decisions. So there's huge value in the role. But the value in the role only comes about if that person can actually take ownership of the product. I mean, the clue's in the name, isn't it? They are the owner of the product, so therefore they can make the critical on the ground decisions, but all the time talking to their stakeholders. So, I mean, as with many things in Scrum, it's about a misunderstanding, a general misunderstanding of what the roles are within the Scrum team. Brian Milner (10:41) Yeah, I think they also have the fear of the wrong decision that somehow that's going to lock them in or this person's not equipped to make the right decisions that they are the knowledge expert for the product. so they should be the one making all the decisions. They have the authority. I have had a couple of cases where I've had to have difficult conversations with leaders to say, well, let's examine the decision. because you're looking at them as making the wrong decision, but is it the wrong decision? You're disconnected from the day-to-day of the team. This person is fully connected to the day-to-day, and they're more likely to have more current knowledge. And it's not always the case that just because you assume it's the wrong decision that it actually is, they may actually be right and you could be wrong. Barnaby Golden (11:30) And funny enough, this brings on to another topic I'm greatly interested in, which is the definition of value. And that is if there is no clear understanding within the organization of value, then decisions become arbitrary. You know, we decide to do X rather than Y in the product. Well, why did you decide to do that? Well, because it was my decision to do that. Yeah, but is there a rationale behind it? Do you have a definition of the value of X and the value of Y? and why you chose one over the other. And I think that's part of the problem as well. The kinds of organizations that don't have empowered product owners also typically don't have a definition of value. Brian Milner (12:08) Yeah, I completely agree. I know I've had conversations in classes where I've talked to people about how when you're prioritizing, when you're looking at things in your backlog, and we always say you prioritize according to value. Well, what's the value? What's the value of doing that thing? And so many times, I think there are organizations that can't really identify what it is. Why are we doing this thing? because it sounded cool, because it seemed like the right thing to do, it just felt right? No, we're doing it so that it does something, it creates some outcome for us. And if you can't even really define what that outcome is that you're hoping it achieves, well, isn't that the start of the problem? Barnaby Golden (12:55) And I think part of the root cause of that as well is the tendency for these types of organizations to do long-term planning. So what they'll often do is they'll have a roadmap for the year and they'll say in this roadmap for the year, we will achieve all these things. And then it becomes less about delivering value and more about delivering the roadmap. And I've had conversations with product owners where I've said to them, you do realize what we're doing doesn't make sense. And they say, yeah, of course they do, but I'm not being measured. on sense or the delivery of value, I'm being measured on whether or not I meet the roadmap. And that was what's important to me. You can see how all these elements are tied together within the organization. Brian Milner (13:28) Right. Right? Yeah. No, that's an excellent point. And you're absolutely right. So much of our metrics and some of the things that we judge teams on or performance by is basically just a volume kind of metric. And it's how much stuff is being produced. that's not value. Volume does not equal value. Value can be achieved with much less a lot of the times. And if we're This is why sometimes I'll advise product owners in classes to say, look, start up your sprint review. Maybe go back and look at some things that you've done recently and show the metric that you're using for that thing to see if it's successful. Because if the team's done something in the past three or four sprints and it's actually moved the value needle some way, it's increased customer satisfaction. added new members to our site, whatever the thing is, right? If you can show that kind of business value to it, my experience is that people stop focusing as much on volume, because that's volumes of means to the end, which is the value. Barnaby Golden (14:40) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing I've noticed as well in these types of organizations is that the value they're focused on is the incremental, is not the incremental delivery. It's usually a new feature or something like that competing. And what you often find is that the teams are not end value creators. They're often parts of... the creation of value. rather than the whole creation of value, there may be a component of it. And because of that, people will say, well, there's no direct link between you and value creation in the organization. And I find that is very problematic. And it really flies against the rationale of Scrum, which is that you want within each sprint, you want to deliver some incremental value. And if you can't measure it, if you can't... clearly define what that value is. And as you were saying, if the product owner can't stand in the sprint review and say, well, this is the value we've delivered. How does the team keep motivated? How do they keep passionate about what they're doing? Brian Milner (15:50) Yeah. Yeah. I think part of that is just trying to put yourselves in the shoes of your customers and try to look about what they would find as being really valuable. I don't know about you. know, well, I'm sure this applies to you as well. But we all are consumers of different software products, whether that's a business software product or even games or other things that we would use. And when they come out with new releases of those things, they come out with release notes. Now, when they come out with the release notes, are you looking at the release notes and going, wow, I'm satisfied. There's a ton of things that's in this release. Or are you looking through the individual items and going, well, I don't care about that. I don't care about that. I don't care about this. That thing, oh yeah, that's important to me. Right? That's what we do. And that's a clear picture of value over volume. Barnaby Golden (16:49) Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that gets in the way here is a lot of it is the pride of the management team. So they often have strong self belief. They believe they make, they believe by definition, the decisions they're making are powerful decisions. So, I, it's also, think one of the reasons why a lot of organizations don't aren't data driven. You would hope they would. produce a feature and then measure whether or not that feature was a success. But that's not as common as it should be. There's very rarely business metrics tracked against deliveries. I mean, I'm generalizing here. There are many organizations do this very well. But I found there's quite a few organizations that don't really do that. And it leads to a disconnect with the customers. I mean, I can think of an example that we're... an organization I was working at where they worked on a feature delivery for six months that was on the roadmap and they got it done and they shipped it. And I think the expected users were tens of thousands and they got 16 users for this feature. And at that point there wasn't even a post-mortem. They didn't even look back and say, well, what are the lessons learned here? It was like, that's shame. Let's move on to the next item on the roadmap and hope that works instead. And it's very frustrating, especially because the feel of a good Scrum team is the connection with the customers and the feeling that you can see the passion in the engineers and in the team's eyes because they're delivering things that people want and they feel connected to it. And it means they work better and they work more effectively. Brian Milner (18:22) Yeah, there's no worse feeling than building something no one uses. I used to joke with the team, it's kind of like that old joke about if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around us, makes, if we build software that nobody uses, did we build it? It's not going to be used for anything. So it didn't serve any purpose. Barnaby Golden (18:31) You Yeah. Yeah, the way I like to think of it is that an organization should not view people's time spent in the job as important. What they should view is the value that that person has delivered as important. So sometimes people will say, know, yeah, okay, we delivered a feature that nobody really used, but you you did your job, you came in for eight hours a day during that time. And that's hard for people, I think, because they feel like this is my life. I'm investing time and energy into this. Yeah, the money is important, of course. I'm doing it as a career. But at the same time, I also want to feel reward. I want to feel like I'm achieving something. And I think with that element, you get so much better performance from the team if they feel that. Brian Milner (19:26) I agree. There's another thing I was thinking of here too, when we were talking about underpowered POs. Another cause I think that maybe you've encountered or seen as well, but screwy things that people do with kind of personnel. Like for example, having multiple product owners for a team, that leads to underpowered product owner or the opposite even putting a product owner on too many teams. That's going lead to underpowered POs as well. What's been your experience with that? Have you seen that? Okay. Barnaby Golden (19:54) I have one extreme example where there was an engineering team and the organization was an international organization. And politically within the organization, it was unacceptable to have one backlog. They had to have a backlog for the UK, a backlog for the US, a backlog for Australia, backlog for other areas of the world. And the team then had to... prioritize them kind of in this wild order. So they would say, right, we'll take number one from UK, number one from US. And so there was no coherence to what they were building at all. It was really just about satisfying people within the organization. And it kind of brings you back to that key point about why do we have product owners? Because product owners, they narrow down all the ambiguity, they narrow down all the possibilities to the thing that's most effective for the team to do next. Brian Milner (20:47) Yeah, I like your example because it highlights kind of what I think about those scenarios a lot of times is that they're theater. They're an act. They're not really serving the purpose, but they're making someone or helping someone to feel a sense of security about something that really they shouldn't feel. It's not there, but it has the appearance of it. It has the stage set. Barnaby Golden (20:55) Hmm. Yeah. Brian Milner (21:11) of something that looks secure, you know? Barnaby Golden (21:13) Yeah. mean, whenever somebody mentioned that to me, the first thing I always think about is the length of the backlog. I've worked in organizations where they could not achieve the backlog in 10 years if the team kept at it. And yet people within the organization say, yeah, I'm not worried. My feature request is on the backlog. And I'm thinking, yeah, but we're adding 10 new items a week and we're only completing eight. So in fact, you're moving further down the backlog. You're not actually getting closer to. being done. And it's, it's, it's a disconnect to gain. And this is what it's all about. Good agility, good scrum is when there's a strong connection. And if you start having that, that just doing things for appearances sake, then you lose that connection. Brian Milner (21:55) Yeah, and it really is kind of that fundamental flaw that we try to address throughout Scrum of transparency. When you do those kind of theater-ish things to give the appearance of something, it's the opposite of being transparent. You're trying to make it more difficult to see the reality. Yeah, it's on the backlog, so you have this false sense of security. It's on the backlog. It's never gonna get done, but... that's not transparent that it's never going to get done because it's on the backlog. Yeah, mean, part of that I put on the product owner a little bit, but that could also be that the organization demands it. Like your example with it having different backlogs across different geographies, does it serve a purpose? Well, maybe the purpose is to make someone feel better. That, hey, my thing's number one on our list, but... Barnaby Golden (22:39) Yeah. Brian Milner (22:43) That doesn't mean it's number one, that's the next thing that's going get done. It's theater. Barnaby Golden (22:47) And it was done exactly for that reason. I mean, it was done because they didn't want to alienate the heads of the individual countries. So they wanted to make them feel like they were going to get something even though they weren't going to get it. Which is really frustrating. Brian Milner (22:59) I've seen that as well with the multiple product owners. When there's a team that has multiple product owners, a lot of times that's a theater kind of thing as well, because there's a, I don't know if there's a fear that someone's gonna feel undervalued if they're not called the product owner. But it just seems like, yeah, we want all these voices to be involved with it, which again, maybe it's a misunderstanding of the product owner role. That's okay, you can have multiple voices involved, but you gotta define who's the decision maker. And if a team doesn't know that, that's gonna cause a whole host of problems. Barnaby Golden (23:34) Absolutely. I mean, I've been in scenarios where you would have multiple product owners. The team has been instructed by a product owner to go in a direction and then midway through a sprint, the other product owner will come along and say, yeah, that's not really what I had in mind for this sprint. Can you please switch onto this other thing? And as a, you know, I was a scrum master at the time and what I ended up doing in my sprint report was I would say, and the team lost 20 to 30 % of their capacity in switching. between what one product owner wanted and what the other product owner wanted. And that at least got a reaction because people said, well, OK, maybe that's not a good thing if we're losing output from the team. But it's a failure of the organization to make value judgments and make genuine decisions. Instead, it becomes political decisions. Brian Milner (24:19) Yeah. Well, I'll give you my trick for when I've encountered it as a consultant a couple of times, I usually just ask one question and it'll clear it up. I'll just go to them and whoever the leader is that's insisting that there's multiple product owners on the team, I'll just go and say, all right, what happens when, let's say it's two, what happens when those two people disagree? And usually the immediate thing I hear back is, oh, no, no, no, they get along. They usually understand. Barnaby Golden (24:45) You Brian Milner (24:47) And I always just counteract it really quickly and say, yeah, but what happens when they don't? What happens when the day comes when one of the product owners wants something that's number one and the other one wants an entirely different thing as the number one priority, who makes the call? And usually they'll point to one of them and say, push comes to shove that one. right. I mean, at that point, I just say, well, you just told me that's your product owner, right? Barnaby Golden (25:08) got a little bit more authority so they make the decision here. Brian Milner (25:15) That's the product on the other person's a stakeholder, which is fine. There's nothing devaluing about someone who's a stakeholder. They can work all day every day with that product owner. Barnaby Golden (25:24) Yeah, absolutely. I think that people feel if they're not in the product owner role, then they will just be another stakeholder and maybe they won't have as loud a voice. But what's so frustrating about the situation is when you see it done well, when you see it done effectively with a really good empowered product owner, a very motivated team, it's such a powerful thing. And I mean, it's why I stayed in Agile for so long is because I know how good it can be and It's very frustrating and I guess I have sympathy for organizations because maybe if they've never seen it done well, it's difficult for them to understand how just how effective it is. Brian Milner (26:00) Yeah, I agree. Well, this has been a great discussion. I really like this topic. It's great to focus on product owners a little bit. And hopefully, maybe there is a leader out there or somebody listening who heard some of these things and thought, you know what? Maybe it is time to give our product owner a little more power. We talk about testing things all the time, inspecting and adapting as we go. Well, leaders, try that. Barnaby Golden (26:25) Yeah, maybe just try it as an experiment. You know, if you're concerned, give it a go. Brian Milner (26:27) Yeah. Yeah. Give it a shot and see what happens. You may like it, and you may decide this is the best way to go. So yeah, I think that's a great suggestion. Well, Barnaby, this has been great. I really appreciate you making time for this. thanks for not only being on the show, but for the contributions you made in the Agile Mentors community as well. Barnaby Golden (26:47) Well thanks a lot Brian, I really enjoyed that, it was a great conversation.
Irene Castagnotto: Three Toxic Conditions That Destroy Agile Team Effectiveness Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene encountered a team where everything appeared perfect on the surface, but underneath lay a complete lack of transparency. The team displayed negativity while their manager prevented them from taking responsibility, asking them to complete tasks without explaining the reasoning. These three toxic conditions—negativity, lack of transparency, and micromanagement—combined to destroy the team's effectiveness. Initially hesitant to speak up, Irene ultimately chose to leave. Reflecting on this experience, she emphasizes the importance of addressing problems directly with leadership rather than simply escaping the situation. In this segment, we refer to the 5 monkeys experiment, as comment on conditioning that happens in groups. Featured Book of the Week: Switch by the Heath Brothers Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard by the Heath Brothers focuses on understanding change and why it's challenging for people. According to Irene, change isn't difficult because people resist it, but because it creates internal conflict within us. The Heath Brothers explain the three essential elements needed for successful change: the rational rider (logical thinking), the emotional elephant (feelings and motivation), and the path (the environment and systems). The book provides practical guidance on how to facilitate change and help people navigate transitions effectively, emphasizing the importance of celebrating achievements throughout the change process. Self-reflection Question: What internal conflicts might be preventing positive changes in your team, and how can you address both the rational and emotional aspects of resistance? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Irene Castagnotto: When Proactive Help Backfires - A Gen Z Scrum Master's Learning Journey Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene shares a valuable lesson about the pitfalls of being overly proactive without proper communication. As a new Scrum Master, she observed Product Owners struggling with role changes and took initiative to help them understand and implement changes. However, she discovered that her well-intentioned proposals weren't aligned with what the POs actually wanted. The key insight: when people don't speak up during your proposals, it often means they're not on board but are avoiding conflict. Irene learned that asking questions and letting others express what changes they're ready for is far more effective than assuming what help is needed. Self-reflection Question: How can you better gauge whether your team is genuinely on board with your suggestions, especially when they remain silent during discussions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
The Future of Scrum: What Will Agile Look Like in 2030?Agile methodologies, particularly Scrum, have dominated the software development and product management landscape for decades. However, as technology advances and workplace dynamics shift, Agile is evolving rapidly. By 2030, Scrum will be unrecognizable from its early iterations. Here's how it will transform...How to connect with AgileDad:- [website] https://www.agiledad.com/- [instagram] https://www.instagram.com/agile_coach/- [facebook] https://www.facebook.com/RealAgileDad/- [Linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/in/leehenson/
Somya Mehra: When Technical Expertise Becomes Product Owner Micro-Management Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Clear Communicator and Dependency Master Somya worked with an exceptional Product Owner on a project with multiple team dependencies. This PO excelled at clear, direct communication with both stakeholders and the team. They were proactive in stakeholder communication and maintained strong focus on what was needed and why. Their backlog management was exemplary, creating proper epics with comprehensive information including dependencies, enabling the team to easily know who to contact. This approach led to a much more motivated team. The Bad Product Owner: The Technical Micro-Manager Somya encountered a technically strong Product Owner whose knowledge became a liability. While technical strength can be beneficial, this PO used their expertise to control the team, telling developers exactly what solutions to implement. Initially, developers accepted this direction, but it escalated to every feature and task. The developers became uncomfortable voicing their perspectives, creating an unhealthy dynamic where the PO's technical knowledge stifled team autonomy and creativity. Self-reflection Question: How do you help Product Owners leverage their technical knowledge without falling into micro-management patterns? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
Somya Mehra: Why Collaboration Should Be Your Team's Primary Goal Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Unlike technical roles where success is tangible, Scrum Master success can be harder to measure, especially for those transitioning from tech roles. Somya defines successful Scrum Master performance through team behaviors: when teams trust and respect each other, and when collaboration becomes their goal. She emphasizes the importance of observing behaviors and discussing them with team members early enough to foster the right behaviors within the team. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The 2 Pillars Retrospective Somya recommends the 2 Pillars retrospective format, which she intentionally varies to keep teams engaged and curious. Her core structure focuses on two essential questions: "What went well?" and "How can we improve?" She notices that using the same retrospective format repeatedly leads to team boredom, so she adds variety while maintaining these fundamental pillars. In specific cases, she includes a gratitude section to ensure team members feel appreciated. Self-reflection Question: How do you measure your success as a Scrum Master when the results aren't as tangible as in technical roles? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
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