Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast

LLM.txt files offer no actual SEO value for content creators. Duane Forrester, former Bing executive and founder of UnboundAnswers.com, explains why these files are "total trash" since all AI crawlers already follow standard robots.txt protocols. He details how Creative Commons bot handles most AI training data collection, making additional file formats unnecessary, and provides guidance on proper robots.txt syntax to avoid blocking beneficial AI crawlers from accessing content.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Retrieval-based search is transforming how SEO professionals approach keyword strategy. Duane Forrester, former Bing Senior Product Manager and founder of UnboundAnswers.com, argues that traditional keyword research must evolve beyond single-term optimization to remain effective in AI-driven search environments. The discussion covers query fan-out methodology for topic expansion, conversation-based keyword research techniques that mirror natural language patterns, and strategic frameworks for adapting keyword research processes to accommodate LLM search behaviors and retrieval-based ranking systems.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Google's AI overviews now appear in over 50% of search results. Duane Forrester, founder and CEO of UnboundAnswers.com and former Microsoft search engine insider, shares how his unique perspective from inside search engines informs adaptation strategies for the current AI transformation. The discussion covers machine trust fundamentals through structured data implementation, content chunking strategies for LLM consumption, and the critical shift from traditional keyword targeting to goal-oriented content creation that serves both human readers and AI systems.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Customer data integration challenges cost enterprises millions in missed revenue opportunities annually. Eddie Patzsch, marketing strategist at Optimove, shares proven frameworks for securing technical leadership buy-in for customer data infrastructure investments. The discussion covers quantifying business impact through cost-of-inaction modeling, positioning data integration as an efficiency multiplier that reduces ad hoc technical requests, and leveraging AI readiness initiatives to align marketing data needs with existing technical priorities.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Customer data and marketing campaigns form an inseparable "power couple" driving modern growth strategies. Eddie Patzsch from Optimove reveals how leading brands are shifting budget allocation from traditional channel-based spending to customer data-driven investment strategies that build sustainable competitive advantages. The discussion covers zero-party data deployment frameworks, customer enrichment methodologies, and the operational infrastructure required to move beyond batch-and-blast approaches toward precision-targeted campaign execution.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Marketing teams waste 73% of their budget on misdirected campaigns. Eddie Patzsch, marketing strategist at Optimove, explains why data integration outperforms content personalization when resources are limited and shares insights from working with enterprise CMOs who prioritize technical foundations over creative campaigns. The discussion covers frameworks for shifting from perception-based to data-driven marketing decisions and strategies for building technical marketing leadership that drives measurable ROI through accurate audience targeting.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Product and marketing teams will merge performance ownership within five years. Eddie Patzsch from Optimove predicts this transformation as AI reduces organizational silos and product-led growth demands tighter integration between customer acquisition and product experience. The discussion covers how zero-party data collection requires cross-functional collaboration between marketing and product teams for effective implementation. Patzsch outlines the strategic shift from historically strained product-marketing relationships toward unified performance accountability in enterprise B2B organizations.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Zero-party customer data collection remains critically underutilized across enterprise marketing teams. Eddie Patzsch, marketing strategist at Optimove, demonstrates how gamification platforms can capture customer preferences and behavioral insights that drive measurable engagement improvements. The discussion covers implementing self-serve gamification tools for email and website zero-party data collection, executive buy-in strategies for data collection initiatives, and scaling beyond traditional first-party data limitations through intentional customer preference gathering frameworks.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

93% of marketers believe first-party data is more critical than ever for organizations. Eddie Patzsch, VP of Revenue at Optimove, has transformed relationship data into revenue-driving campaigns for enterprise brands like Sephora and FanDuel, delivering measurable incremental revenue through AI-powered personalization at scale. The discussion covers zero-party data collection through gamification strategies, deterministic versus probabilistic customer matching frameworks, and AI-powered self-optimizing journey orchestration that prioritizes communications across millions of customer touchpoints.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

84% of search queries now trigger AI-powered results, fundamentally reshaping optimization strategies. Aimee Jurenka from seo SUSTAINABLE shares her proven framework for managing enterprise clients transitioning from traditional SEO to multi-channel search optimization. She outlines her systematic approach for categorizing traditional SEO tactics into "continue," "modify," and "replace" buckets while introducing AEO-specific strategies. Jurenka details her client communication template that maps on-page, off-page, technical SEO, and local SEO changes alongside new AI optimization requirements, emphasizing the shift from generalized to highly customized search strategies for each client vertical.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SEO professionals face unprecedented change as AI transforms search discovery. Aimee Jurenka from SEO Sustainable brings enterprise-level expertise in navigating algorithmic shifts while maintaining sustainable growth strategies. The discussion covers embracing industry transformation as competitive advantage and leveraging SEO's foundational adaptability principles to thrive during periods of rapid technological evolution.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Voice search adoption accelerates among blue-collar demographics who prefer speaking over typing. Aimee Jurenka from seo SUSTAINABLE shares insights on resource allocation between voice and visual search optimization based on user behavior patterns across different demographic segments. The discussion covers conversational query optimization strategies and the strategic implications of Google's marketing emphasis on voice interactions over visual search features.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

AI search adoption is accelerating faster than traditional SEO adaptation rates. Aimee Jurenka from SEO Sustainable has been tracking AI search evolution since discovering Bing Copilot and monitoring user behavior shifts across general populations. The discussion covers the "adapt or die" framework for traditional SEOs transitioning from 10 blue links optimization, strategic positioning for the inevitable traffic migration to AI-powered search, and implementation approaches for professionals navigating the convergence of AEO and traditional SEO methodologies.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Google's AI mode is positioned to replace traditional search entirely. Aimee Jurenka from SEO Sustainable brings enterprise SEO expertise and direct insights into Google's strategic direction based on official company statements and market positioning. The discussion covers Google's integration timeline for AI mode into core search functionality and the commercial investment signals indicating inevitable market dominance over traditional search interfaces.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Zero-click searches now dominate 65% of Google queries globally. Aimee Jurenka, SEO strategist at SEO Sustainable, has developed specialized tracking systems across multiple LLMs that help enterprise clients allocate budgets based on conversion data from ChatGPT, Gemini, and traditional search channels. The discussion covers chunkability optimization frameworks for AI-readable content, semantic triplet implementation strategies for brand visibility in generative outputs, and data-driven resource allocation models that balance traditional SEO with answer engine optimization investments.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a world of AI search experiences, will impressions rise while clicks remain flat? Shaun Hinklein from Apollo.io challenges this assumption, arguing that Google's constant SERP experimentation suggests we'll see significant changes ahead. He predicts publishers will remain essential to search ecosystems, with Google likely developing new features that better integrate site content into AI overviews and potentially creating more click opportunities through innovative SERP elements.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Balancing AI content with E-E-A-T signals requires strategic planning. Shaun Hinklein from Apollo.io shares his hybrid approach that prioritizes expertise and trustworthiness above automation efficiency. His methodology includes mandatory subject matter expert reviews before publication, transparent author attribution to maintain accountability, and a focus on content quality that professionals would proudly attach their names to.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In the AI era, SEOs face a critical resource allocation question. Shaun Hinklein of Apollo.io makes a compelling case for prioritizing traditional search optimization over non-search channels. He explains how LLMs fundamentally rely on high-quality search results as their "ingredients," emphasizing that visibility without substance creates poor AI-generated content.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, Shaun Hinklein of Apollo.io examines the evolving relationship between SEO and B2B marketing. He predicts that as AI adoption reaches near-universal levels in the B2B space, the focus will shift from whether content is AI-generated to how effectively AI is being leveraged to deliver value. Shaun emphasizes that successful B2B companies will differentiate themselves through innovative AI applications rather than simply using the technology, with value delivery becoming the primary metric for content effectiveness.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will AI content become indistinguishable from human content in search results? Shaun Hinklein from Apollo.io delivers a definitive "sell" on this controversial prediction. He argues that such indistinguishability would mean the death of journalism, highlighting the irreplaceable value of human creativity and authentic reporting in content creation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SEO and CRO strategies require AI integration for maximum impact. Shaun Hinklein, Head of SEO at Apollo.io, shares how data-driven content can create superior user experiences while balancing automation with human authenticity. He demonstrates practical methods for analyzing competitive SERPs with AI tools, explains how impression metrics now outweigh traffic volume, and reveals techniques for leveraging proprietary data to deliver unique value that generic AI content cannot match.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Kevin Indig is an independent advisor to some of the fastest-growing companies in the world, helping them accelerate growth through SEO and product strategy. His client portfolio spans top marketplaces like Reddit, Snap, and Upwork; leading SaaS platforms such as Ramp and Dropbox; and e-commerce brands including Hims and Fast Growing Trees. He also advises innovative companies on product strategy, including AirOps and Newfold.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SEO professionals are feeling stuck in the age of LLMs. Kevin Indig, growth advisor and author of the Growth Memo newsletter, examines the industry's paralysis between treating AI search as repackaged SEO tactics or something entirely new. He challenges practitioners to move beyond terminology debates and adapt to evolving search landscapes, arguing that experience in traditional SEO can actually make adaptation more difficult.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SEO metrics face a critical shift with AI search features. Kevin Indig, growth advisor and former Shopify SEO Director, explains why measuring AI overviews and AI mode performance now outweighs traditional rankings. He recommends tracking position one visibility as a key signal for AI overview inclusion, while using keyword rankings as directional indicators rather than primary KPIs.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How will SEO's relationship with content evolve in the near future? Kevin Indig, growth advisor and former SEO leader at multiple companies, examines the shifting content landscape. He discusses the necessity of incorporating AI into content creation workflows while maintaining human oversight, and explores how SEOs must balance declining per-article traffic value against increased content production capabilities.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

AI Overviews are poised to replace featured snippets. Kevin Indig, growth advisor and former Director of SEO at Shopify, weighs in on this significant search evolution expected by late 2025. He explains why AI Overviews make more logical sense for users and search engines, predicting the eventual phasing out of traditional featured snippets as AI-generated content summaries become the new standard.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Google's AI mode is transforming search visibility overnight. Kevin Indig, independent advisor, shares strategic approaches for adapting to AI-generated search results. He explains how to measure influence rather than rankings, conduct direct user research instead of relying on keyword tools, and optimize for multimodal experiences across platforms like YouTube and Reddit to maintain visibility in AI overviews.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Balancing journalistic quality with search performance is a critical SEO challenge. Dina Rickman from GoFundMe shares her expertise on creating content that satisfies both editorial standards and search algorithms. She recommends hiring former journalists to create high-quality content that naturally performs well in search, emphasizing that exceptional content published in traditional media will also succeed in SEO. Rickman argues that today's best SEO content often exceeds traditional journalism standards, creating lasting value rather than short-term ranking gains.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Search visibility versus reader engagement presents a false dichotomy. Dina Rickman, from GoFundMe, explains why reader engagement ultimately drives sustainable search visibility in the long term. She explores why brands should prioritize answering user questions effectively rather than simply appearing everywhere, and demonstrates how negative brand associations from poor content can undermine visibility gains.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Journalistic integrity and SEO success share a symbiotic relationship. Dina Rickman from GoFundMe explains how quality content must deliver on the promise of its headline and target keywords to truly rank well. She emphasizes that effective SEO content requires honesty, specificity for the intended audience, and the ability to fulfill user expectations—principles that mirror fundamental journalistic standards.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is clickbait truly harmful or just misunderstood? Dina Rickman from GoFundMe reframes the clickbait debate by distinguishing between compelling headlines and content that fails to deliver on its promise. She argues that creating interest-driving headlines is fundamental to publishing success, while emphasizing that the real problem occurs when content doesn't fulfill what the headline promised.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this lightning round episode, Dina Rickman of GoFundMe demonstrates how journalism principles directly apply to SEO strategy. She highlights the critical "who, what, where, why, when, how" framework as fundamental to both disciplines, emphasizing that users need immediate context regardless of their entry point. Rickman explains that effective SEO content must quickly establish relevance, deliver key information, and create engagement hooks to prevent single-page visits and bounces.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In today's content-saturated landscape, SEO needs journalistic principles. Dina Rickman, Senior Director at GoFundMe, shares how her background in journalism transformed her approach to search strategy. She explains how firsthand experience and original reporting create content that genuinely engages users, why traditional keyword-focused tactics are losing effectiveness, and how editorial intuition can be developed through data analysis and experimentation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Clicks dropping while impressions remain stable? SEO Director Donna Donahue from Antylia Scientific shares her current approach to this exact challenge. She emphasizes the importance of frequent site crawling, establishing benchmarks before making changes, and proper URL mapping during transitions. Donahue also recommends implementing monitoring systems to track the impact of pivots and analyzing competitor content that appears in AI-generated search results.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Google's AI search results threaten organic traffic. Donna Donahue, SEO leader at Antylia Scientific, forecasts the evolution of zero-click environments over the next year. She emphasizes the critical importance of structured data accuracy despite Google's claims it's not a ranking signal, and explains how brands can leverage AI overviews for increased brand recognition while developing strategies to counter declining click-through rates.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

E-E-A-T signals in AI search have become increasingly messy and unclear. Donna Donahue from Antylia Scientific shares how her quasi-YMYL company navigates Google's shifting expertise requirements. She explains why scientific oversight of all content is essential for maintaining authority in pharmaceutical and lab research industries, while noting the pendulum swing from E-E-A-T obsession toward a renewed focus on relevancy and topic uniqueness.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

AI overviews are reshaping SEO strategy. Donna Donahue from Antylia Scientific examines the trend of optimizing content specifically for AI-generated search results. She discusses how snippets have become the new "zero-click playground," the recent addition of links within AI overviews, and strategies for creating content that both satisfies information needs while encouraging click-throughs to websites.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will page speed matter in AI search? Donna Donahue from Antylia Scientific examines the evolving relationship between page speed and AI-driven search results. She argues that while technical performance remains important for crawlers, content quality will continue to be the dominant ranking factor. Donahue also highlights the irony that Google's own tracking tools often contribute to page speed issues while simultaneously penalizing sites for slow performance.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Demonstrating SEO ROI remains a persistent challenge for search professionals. Donna Donahue, SEO Manager at Antylia Scientific, shares her approach to cross-functional collaboration through effective listening and stakeholder education. She reveals how developing comprehensive content briefs creates pathways to success, transforming reluctant stakeholders into willing participants while explaining how incorporating direct customer feedback from sales and trade show teams strengthens content strategy beyond traditional keyword research.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Google's helpful content updates require a strategic response. Zak Ali, from Finder, shares his approach to realigning organizations around search priorities. He advocates for starting fresh by understanding how real users interact with search, putting customer needs at the center of strategy, and balancing technical SEO fundamentals with human-centered content development that reflects authentic user behavior.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Long-form guides or interactive calculators? Zak Ali from Finder weighs in on resource allocation for personal finance sites. Interactive calculators emerge as the clear winner, offering users immediate value through manipulable interfaces rather than passive reading experiences. Ali emphasizes that calculators better match user intent, allow for personalization, and can still incorporate supporting content while avoiding the pitfalls of creating extensive guides that users typically scan rather than read thoroughly.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

AI search is transforming the personal finance vertical. Zak Ali from Finder explains how the landscape will shift in the next 18 months, with major finance apps achieving product parity while smaller publishers specialize in niche areas. He predicts AI search will become the default experience within 12-18 months once Google solves ad monetization, creating significant challenges for unprepared publishers.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will financial literacy content outperform comparison pages in 2025? Zak Ali from Finder weighs in on the future of content strategy for financial services websites. He predicts LLMs will handle most text-based financial education while comparison pages will maintain their value, and shares tactics for optimizing title tags and thumbnails to improve impression-to-click rates when competing with AI-generated answers.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Financial SEO requires specialized knowledge in a highly competitive space. Zak Ali, US General Manager at Finder, shares how smaller publishers can compete against dominant players in the financial sector. He explains how AI search creates opportunities for content diversification beyond Google, why focusing on user-centric experiences drives higher quality leads, and how SEO professionals should evolve into growth managers who build brand entities across multiple channels.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will AI diminish the value of localized content? Sebastien Edgar of SEOSeb & Previsible examines why localization remains crucial despite AI advancements. He explains how properly localized content demonstrates market understanding, creates uniqueness, and can increase purchase likelihood by up to 40%. Edgar also highlights the significant opportunity gap between English-dominated web content and the small percentage of native English speakers worldwide.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will search engines eventually eliminate hreflang tags? Sebastien Edgar of SEOSeb & Previsible examines the future of international SEO signals. Despite advancements in machine learning, Edgar argues that hreflang tags provide essential efficiency for search engines identifying equivalent content across markets. The discussion compares hreflang implementation to schema markup, noting how both structured data formats continue to be valuable despite AI improvements.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sebastein discusses Game plan for launching in five new international markets with limited resourcesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Global SEO is increasingly fragmented across platforms and user behaviors. Sebastien Edgar, founder of SEOSeb and Previsible, explains how search diversification is forcing SEOs beyond their traditional comfort zones. He advocates for an omnichannel approach that leverages content across multiple platforms, urges SEOs to take ownership of the full conversion funnel, and emphasizes the growing importance of CRO alongside traditional search strategy.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Multilingual content generation with AI requires human oversight. Sebastien Edgar, SEO expert from SEOSeb & Previsible, examines the limitations of fully automated translation systems. He discusses the narrowing gap between AI and human translation quality, the persistent problem of hallucinations in AI-generated content, and why manual review remains essential despite rapid technological advancement.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Global SEO requires unique market-specific approaches. Sebastien Edgar, SEO consultant at SEOSeb and expert at Previsible, shares his international expansion strategies. Edgar demonstrates how to balance global consistency with local market nuances, leverage hreflang tags to transfer authority between markets, and adapt imagery and content to reflect cultural preferences while avoiding stereotypes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The SEO industry is undergoing a seismic shift — from rising M&A activity to the growing dominance of AI in search. In this episode, Jordan Koene, SEO strategist and advisor at Previsible, is joined by Jim Boykin, founder of Internet Marketing Ninjas, to unpack their recent merger and what it means for the future of search.Jim shares insights from over two decades at the forefront of SEO, including how link building has evolved, what makes a “trusted” link today, and why AI isn't replacing SEO, it's redefining it. Discover how LLMs like ChatGPT and Google's AI Overviews are reshaping visibility, why brand mentions matter more than ever, and how SEOs must adapt to stay competitive.Whether you're an in-house marketer, agency pro, or SEO enthusiast, this episode offers a roadmap for thriving in a rapidly transforming search landscape.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.