make joy normal: cozy homeschooling

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You get to ask the questions. In the context of promoting joy, fun and an environment of love, your hosts, Bonnie and Elizabeth welcome you! Bonnie is a homeschool mom of seven kids, 29 years in (with a few more to go), writer, speaker and cheerleader. Elizabeth, mom of four, in the thick of glorious family life, brings her questions and yours to the table. Join us for some honest discussion about how to make home education cozy. Just like you imagined.

Bonnie Landry


    • Jun 30, 2026 LATEST EPISODE
    • weekdays NEW EPISODES
    • 28m AVG DURATION
    • 430 EPISODES

    4.9 from 69 ratings Listeners of make joy normal: cozy homeschooling that love the show mention: homeschooling, family, helpful, thank, advice, love, always.


    Ivy Insights

    The Make Joy Normal: Cozy Homeschooling Podcast is an incredible resource for parents, homeschoolers, homemakers, and Christians alike. I have been listening to this podcast for some time now and have found immense value in every episode. The heart and dedication that Bonnie and Elizabeth put into each episode is evident, and it truly feels like they are speaking directly to me. They tackle difficult topics with grace and honesty, providing encouragement and insight that is applicable to all aspects of life. I am grateful for the wisdom I have gained from this podcast.

    One of the best aspects of this podcast is the variety of topics covered. From homeschooling tips to parenting guidance, from homemaking advice to Christian inspiration, there is something for everyone. No matter what stage of life you are in, you will find valuable nuggets of wisdom in each episode. Bonnie's beautiful wisdom and insight shine through in her conversations with Elizabeth, creating a warm and inviting atmosphere that feels like sitting down with friends. As a new homeschooler, I have learned so much from their discussions about the homeschooling journey.

    There really aren't any major downsides to this podcast. However, if I had to nitpick, I would say that occasionally the episodes tend to be on the longer side. While the content is always valuable and engaging, it can sometimes be challenging to find enough time in my day to listen to a full episode in one sitting. However, this is a minor issue considering the wealth of information provided.

    In conclusion, The Make Joy Normal: Cozy Homeschooling Podcast has been a game-changer for me personally and has had a positive impact on my family as well. It has helped me navigate the world of homeschooling with confidence and has given me practical tools for everyday situations. The wisdom shared by Bonnie and Elizabeth is invaluable, and their dedication to spreading joy shines through each episode. I am grateful for this podcast and highly recommend it to anyone seeking guidance, inspiration, and a sense of community.



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    Latest episodes from make joy normal: cozy homeschooling

    Conception, pregnancy and birth: Catholic moms share their stories

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2026 71:57


    send us a text via Fan Mail!I've been re-releasing all my Martha Martha episodes in great bundles over the last few weeks. This is the last one, and it's a long form, most of them have been really short . A lovely group of moms discuss their experience of conception pregnancy and birth. As the first in a series of attachment at different ages and stages, I've sought out the reflection of Catholic mothers about their journey.  In the context of seeking relationship with our children, we discuss the awakening of developing secure relationships  for both mother and child.  Covering the desire for connection, the challenges in pursuing it and the benefits, these moms share their stories, resources, concerns and blessings.  We begin by defining attachment:“Attachment” refers to a relationship that we seek as parents.  On our end, attachment requires us to be attuned to our children through physical and emotional closeness.  We seek to provide an environment where they feel safe and cared for, heard and seen.  The hunger for connection its the most fundamental need for a human being.  Our awareness and understanding of that need are the foundation for a securely attached child.  A securely attached child rests in the knowledge that her emotional and physical needs will be acknowledged and met; that love and respect are inherent and these things do not need to be earned.  A child will be comfortable expressing their needs and emotions. This ability to rest in our love creates an environment that allows their natural maturity to flourish.  https://www.spinningbabies.comhttps://www.mamanatural.com/pregnancy-week-by-week/https://us.hypnobirthing.com/about/marie-mongan-method/Made for Thishttps://www.amazon.com/Made-This-Catholic-Guide-Birth/dp/1681921715The Birth PartnerThe Womanly ArtIna May's Guide to ChildbirthApps: Gentle BirthChristian HypnobirthingChristina's novena for labour and birth: https://www.theevangelista.com/newlywed-life/2017/10/21/a-novena-for-labor-and-birth?rq=novenaContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    talking to young children about human sexuality

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 4:58


    send us a text via Fan Mail!not a live panel now, but an introduction to a talk about to be re-published. birds and bees (blog post)positively pipping (blog post)ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    guard, reveal, communicate, witness

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:16


    send us a text via Fan Mail!the greatest of theseContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    sphere of influence

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:39


    send us a text via Fan Mail!you have one, use itContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    something I learned during Lent

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 6:16


    send us a text via Fan Mail!letting my guard down after LentContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    Pope John Paul II and all his awesomeness

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:04


    send us a text via Fan Mail!an intro to Familiaris ConsortioContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    motherhood

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 3:57


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Words from Pope John Paul II and my dad. ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    Justice

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:58


    send us a text via Fan Mail!What does justice mean in family life?ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    practicing Catholics

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:09


    send us a text via Fan Mail!more on responding vs. reacting - it takes practiceBishop Barron's seven deadly sins videoBlog post on resilienceContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    gratitude

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 6:33


    send us a text via Fan Mail!it's a habita good article: especially the benefits of gratitudeContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    managing depleting activities

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 8:11


    send us a text via Fan Mail!I use a three part processassess (or identify)decide (what things in your life you want to change)do (choose if you act on it or accept what is)ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    taking care of ourselves

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:21


    send us a text via Fan Mail!another essential key to building resilience - what nourishes or depletes us?ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    setting goals

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2026 5:35


    send us a text via Fan Mail!some practical thoughts that have worked for meContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    why did God make me

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 6:44


    send us a text via Fan Mail!pivotal moment: my life is not my ownContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    babies and the village

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 4:57


    send us a text via Fan Mail!building your village ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    the role of love in education

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 5:11


    send us a text via Fan Mail!excerpt from Familiaris Consortio on love and learningContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    talking about mercy

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 3:19


    send us a text via Fan Mail!with Father Mike Schmitz - have a listen to his Divine Mercy homilyAs we accept God's mercy, we become more mercifulhttps://soundcloud.com/bulldogcatholic/041121-scar-storiesContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    the spiritual riches of a new human life

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 4:31


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Pope John Paul II pondering our modern society and openness to lifeContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    fasting, prayer and almsgiving in our own households

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 3:00


    send us a text via Fan Mail!what can we do at the point in Lent?ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    family, become what you are

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 3:43


    send us a text via Fan Mail!and what is that, exactly?ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    maintaining stability

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 3:51


    send us a text via Fan Mail!protecting the building block of society, the familyContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    why not how

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 5:40


    send us a text via Fan Mail!What are we, families?Intimate communities of life and love. ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    What is a family and why is it so hard?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 9:39


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Chapter two bullet points....Revolution of Mercy.  ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    remembering is the hard part

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 26, 2026 4:01


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Patient endurance is the perfection of charity.  St. AmbroseContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    date night with the Landrys

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2026 4:26


    send us a text via Fan Mail!what worked for us, spoiler: inexpensive, easy and yummyContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    snacks at our house

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2026 6:47


    send us a text via Fan Mail!managing hunger and food prepContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    the theology of the body and dignity in relationships

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2026 8:00


    send us a text via Fan Mail!How does theology of the body relate to our relationships with our children?  ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    receptivity

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2026 6:05


    send us a text via Fan Mail!What is receptivity, why do we want it?Hold Onto Your KidsRevolution of MercyContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    some scrambly thoughts

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2026 4:28


    send us a text via Fan Mail!I try to put the meaning of life into four minutes.  ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    our tanks need filling, too

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 14:11


    send us a text via Fan Mail!We must find ways to fill our own tanks if we are going to be able to fill our children's tanks...ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    filling our children's tanks

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 9:01


    send us a text via Fan Mail!It's actually chapter five.  Filling tanks and restraining reaction.  ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    more on the four temperaments

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 5:26


    send us a text via Fan Mail!self knowledge and our relationship with GodBishop Barron's video on prayerContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    self awareness and resilience

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 6:23


    send us a text via Fan Mail!tools for resilience - today: The Temperament God Gave YouContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    three habits to build resilience in one commitment

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 6:43


    send us a text via Fan Mail!I've talked about setting goals, taking care of ourselves and developing gratitude as the three easiest first steps toward resilience.  Here's a way we can practice all three at once!ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    some qualities of resilience

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 7:02


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Resilience matter because God is a God of peace.  And we want to be like Him.  He's the BEST.ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    what is resilience?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 9, 2026 4:14


    send us a text via Fan Mail!resilience is one key to living a life of peace with ourselvesContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    when your child is in the middle of a crisis

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2026 6:47


    send us a text via Fan Mail!where earthquakes and emotions collidea couple of blips at the end of the recording....ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    we all want happiness

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2026 4:31


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Says St. Thomas Aquinashttps://www.amazon.ca/One-Minute-Aquinas-Doctors-Fundamental-Questions-ebook/dp/B00I655UJM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+one+minute+aquinas&qid=1613570967&sr=8-1ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    The kindness you do

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2026 5:26


    send us a text via Fan Mail!What is the impact of our life in the big picture? The LighthouseHearts in AtlantisContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    good ways to learn

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2026 4:34


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Thoughts on learning ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    Interview with Father Harrison: the parent's role in educating their children

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2026 69:40


    send us a text via Fan Mail!A fabulous interview with my dear friend Father Harrison, who podcasts over at https://www.clericallyspeaking.com/!  We delve into the Catechism of the Catholic Church...what is it, where did it come from and how it can teach us to be better parents...what is our role as Christians parents in educating our children.  Father brings so much depth into the words of the Catechism, I'm so grateful for him helping me to unpack and understand my role better. Familiaris Consortiohttp://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio.htmlGravissium Educationishttp://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_gravissimum-educationis_en.htmlIgnatius on indifference:https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-indifference/Find Fr. Harrison here on twitterhttps://twitter.com/FrHarrison?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5EauthorContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    more thoughts on streamlining meals

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2026 4:47


    send us a text via Fan Mail!it was such a steep learning curve for meContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    streamlining meal time

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2026 6:08


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Meal making for those short on time (that would be all of us...) and for those who don't find cooking a creative outlet.  ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    How are we supposed to be perfect?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2026 5:43


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Seriously, why are we being asked to be perfect.  I recorded this, and then, in one of those great God moments, I was led to read this quote from St. Augustine, who, as concise as possible, sums up life on earth:"Our meditation in this present life should be in the praise of God; for the eternal exultation of our life hereafter will be the praise of God, and none can become fit for the future life, who hath not practiced himself for it now.  The daily prayers of the faithful make satisfaction for those daily, tiny, light faults from which this life cannot be free. "St. AugustineContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    responding vs. reacting

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 5, 2026 4:05


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Sound is a bit glitchy on this episode...working on it!ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    the gift of empathy

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 5:18


    send us a text via Fan Mail!a moment in time when I felt heard and honouredContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    it's that simple, it's that difficult

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 5:23


    send us a text via Fan Mail!what is our mission as family?ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    walking with you

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 3:34


    send us a text via Fan Mail!when our Lenten resolve starts to wane, we can walk togetherContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    can you evangelize others before you're a model Christian?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 5:47


    send us a text via Fan Mail!thoughts on family life and getting better at itContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    what does pray always even mean?

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 4:44


    send us a text via Fan Mail!thoughts on how the heck we can pray alwaysContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

    agitation, discord and grace

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2026 8:44


    send us a text via Fan Mail!Living in the gap between ideals and reality.  It's uncomfortable. ContactOn Instagram at @make.joy.normal By email at makejoynormal@gmail.comSearch podcast episodes by topic www.bonnielandry.caShop my recommended resourcesThanks for listening to Make Joy Normal Podcast! 

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