Podcasts about LPM

Better late than never, right? It's so long ago we can't remember what we discussed, but there was a lengthy sidebar about socks. Unmissable, really. Everything you want to know and very little you need to know, as promised.Oh and May 31, we will be hosting "An Evening with SideDish" together with Longmont Public Media to kick off their member drive week. Come see at LPM at 7 pm - music, comedy and other great entertainment. Thanks to Andy Eppler and David Cutter Music for our intro and outro music.

The U.S. Department of Justice has moved to dismiss Louisville's proposed consent decree with LMPD. What does that mean for oversight, accountability, and the future of policing in our city? We sit down with LPM's Assistant News Director Amina Elahi and KyCIR's Managing Editor Jake Ryan to hash it out, in this special edition.

Gedurende die Nasionale Raad se sitting was begrotingsstem 29 op die agenda. Dit val onder inligting en tegnologie, en Starlink het ter sprake gekom. Tydens die debat oor die stem het die LPM se Willem Labuschagne die kwessie bespreek. Hy vra wetgewers om hom by te staan sodat Starlink in Namibië toegelaat word.

07 05 2025 LPM - Óscar Orué, Dir. Nac. Ingresos Tributarios by ABC Color

Duminga Ndala, leier van die LPM-jeugbevel, het die onrusbarende toename in geweldsmisdade teen kinders veroordeel en dit 'n nasionale noodtoestand genoem wat dringend en gefokusde optrede vereis. Sy het politieke partye gekritiseer vir hul stilswye oor die onlangse wrede moorde in Okahandja, en spoor hulle aan om hul stilte te verbreek en standpunt in te neem. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gepraat met Ndala, wat uitbrei.

Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gesels met Lifalaza Simataa, die LPM se woordvoerder, wat twyfel of die wankelrige stelsel dit sal kan hanteer.

Namibië se eerste amptelike volksmoord herdenkingsdag is op 28 Mei, wat ook tot 'n openbare vakansiedag verklaar is. Die Nama Tradisionele Leiersvereniging herdenk die volksmoord egter op 22 Mei, terwyl die Ovaherero 12 April en 2 Oktober verkies. Albei groepe is gekant teen die datum wat die regering vasgestel het, asook reparasie-onderhandelinge met die Duitse regering, waarvan hulle uitgesluit was. Die Nama-gemeenskap eis nuwe, deursigtige onderhandelinge, met die LPM wat hul oproep ondersteun. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gepraat met Maboss Ortmann, 'n lid van die Nama Tradisionele Leiersvereniging se tegniese komitee, wat nie doekies omdraai nie.

22 04 2025 LPM - Óscar Tuma, abogado by ABC Color

Episode 307: Louis Vuitton, Ladies in Space, and the Great Straw Debate (And Other Festival Season Observations)Welcome to another wild round of Happy Hour With Jay — where we mix overpriced cologne, desert chaos, gym nonsense, and life wisdom into one delicious cocktail.

In this edition of LPM's Inside Scoop Podcast, Stefanie chats with Scott Pethuyne and Caleb Popow from Zebra about their EBR solution that is truly taking it to the next level. Is it possible to make case building easier to help ensure successful case resolution? Hear about how Zebra has been developing Workcloud Actionable Intelligence, and has released a new feature, Canvas, for complex investigations. Based on years of feedback from retailers, they are tapping into the superpowers of AI to make LP lives easier. Zebra will be at the RILA AP conference in DC April 27-30. Check out their booth #411 and see other new developments and tools.

14 04 2025 LPM - Óscar Tuma, abogado by ABC Color

01 04 2025 LPM - Óscar Orué, Dir. Nac. de Ingresos Tributarios by ABC Color

LPM-leier Bernadus Swartbooi en 11 tradisionele owerhede het geëis dat die gesamentlike verklaring oor Nama- en Ovaherero-volksmoordvergoeding, wat reeds deur die Kabinet op 12 Desember 2024 goedgekeur is, nietig verklaar word. In 'n brief van hulle regsverteenwoordigers voer hulle aan die ooreenkoms weerspreek 'n parlementêre resolusie en skend die Namibiese Grondwet deur 'n onwettige herstelmeganisme te skep. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het met die party se menseregteleier Joyce Muzengua gepraat.

Die agste Nasionale Vergadering met die nuut aangestelde parlements- en kabinetslede het vandag begin. LPM-president Bernadus Swartbooi het die nuwe werke-minister, Veikko Nekundi, gevra vir 'n opdatering rakende padinfrastruktuur. Nekundi het gepraat oor die Okahandja-brug naby Osona-dorpie sowel as die B1-brug tussen Windhoek en Rehoboth.

Die regering moes voorsiening gemaak het vir die moontlikheid dat die reën Vrydag Namibië se 35ste onafhanklikheidsvieringe by die Onafhanklikheidstadion in Windhoek kon ontwrig het, sê die LPM. Talle tenders was reeds uitgesit vir meubels, kos vir die publiek, tente en meer... maar, die verrigtinge moes inderhaas na Staatshuis verskuif word. LPM-woordvoerder Lifalaza Simaata sê die regering moes na weerwaarskuwings geluister het, beter beplan het en nie belastinggeld verkwis het nie.

Met die nuwe Swapo -administrasie wat die naweek aan bewind kom, het die IPC en LPM se regsuitdaging van aspekte van die verkiesings weer na vore gekom. 'n Volbank regters van die Hooggeregshof het beslis dat president Nangolo Mbumba nie in stryd met die Grondwet opgetree het toe hy stemmery in sekere distrikte verleng het nie. Ander kwessies soos te min stembriewe en kieslokale wat laat oopgemaak en vroeg toegemaak het, was nie deel van die hofsaak nie. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gepraat met die regskonsultant Dianne Hubbard wat die saak opgesom het, en gesê het die Verkiesingswet behoort hersien te word voor die volgende verkiesings.

Arrancamos una nueva temporada hablado sin parar de la SagA de BlackwateBASTA IAN, LPM.Los Gusians están de regreso, hundidos hasta el cuello recorriendo este clásico de Darwyn Cooke.Diario de Guerra, Macartismo, contexto histórico, Spaceboys y DINOSAURIOS!Próxima lectura: DC: The New Frontier de Darwyn Cooke #2 ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐Ian Gutierrez - Gus Casals#IanleeCrisis

Die Instituut vir Openbare Beleidsnavorsing het 'n vergadering oor landelike beleid aangebied in vennootskap met Deutsche Welle en die New Narratives, New Voices in Public Policy Discourse-program. Die leier van die LPM se jeugvleuel, Duminga Ndala, het by die vergadering gesê dat beleid dikwels opgestel word sonder om die werklikhede wat landelike jeugdiges in die gesig staar, aan te spreek. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het met Ndala gesels, wat uitbrei op haar stelling.

Namibia Fact Check wil weet waar is die bewyse van verkiesingsingmenging deur Zanu-PF in Namibië se November stemmery. Dit het begin met besoeke van Swapo se sekretaris-generaal Sophia Shangingwa en later arbeidsminister Utoni Nujoma in aanloop tot die November verkiesing. Vyf partye, die IPC, die Affirmative Repositioning-beweging, die LPM, PDM en All People's Party het eise gemaak dat daar geknoei is deur die Zimbabwiese party... soos Job Amupanda gesê het...

Grondhervorming-minister Calle Schlettwein het 'n wetsontwerp oor gemeenskaplike grond ter tafel gelê net vier dae voor die sewende parlement se termyn verstryk. As gevolg hiervan het parlementslede voorgestel dat die wetsontwerp onttrek word, maar Schlettwein het geweier. Die wetsontwerp het ten doel om gemeenskaplike grondrade te skep om grond te help bestuur. Dit bevat ook reëls vir grondverspreiding en verhoed dat buitelanders kommersiële landbougrond besit. Die bespreking van die wetsontwerp is uitgestel na 19 Maart. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gesels met die LPM-wetgewer Utaara Mootu, wat haar siening gee.

Die parlementêre lys vir die agtste parlement is in die Staatskoerant gepubliseer. Die nuwe parlementêre span en lede word op 20 Maart ingesweer. Swapo het 51 parlementslede en die IPC het 20. Die AR-beweging het ses lede, terwyl die PDM en LPM vyf lede elk in die parlement het. Die IPC se president, Panduleni Itula, sal nie in die parlement diens doen nie. Hy het op die party se kongres verlede jaar verduidelik hoekom nie.

Die Landless People's Movement se jeugliga het jongmense genooi om môreaand om 18:00 ‘n openbare lesing by te woon ter viering van dié beweging se sesde bestaansjaar. Die lesing sal fokus op die rol van grond in ekonomiese ontwikkeling, welvaartskepping en sosiale geregtigheid. Politieke sleutelfigure, ekonomiese denkers en voorstanders van grondregte sal insigte deel. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het met Duminga Ndala, jeugleier van die LPM, gesels.

There's never a shortage of things to do in Louisville, if you're paying attention. And if you're not paying attention, don't worry! LPM's Arts & Culture reporter Breya Jones has you covered. On this episode, we check in with Breya about the latest news in Louisville's arts scene.

Die IPC en LPM se aansoek teen die uitslag van die presidensiële verkiesing in die hooggeregshof is van die hand gewys. ‘n Volbank regters, Peter Shivute, Petrus Damaseb, Sylvester Mainga, Hosea Angula en Dave Smuts, het die aansoek, wat aangevoer het dat die verlenging van die verkiesing onwettig was, omdat die proklamasie oor die verlenging wat deur president Nangolo Mbumba uitgereik is, onwettig was, aangehoor. Regter Peter Shivute het die uitspraak gelewer.

Die Swapo-regsman Sisa Namandje het met die media gepraat na die IPC en LPM se aansoek teen die uitslag van die presidensiële verkiesing in die hooggeregshof van die hand gewys is. Die aansoek het aangevoer dat die verlenging van die verkiesing onwettig was, omdat die proklamasie oor die verlenging wat deur president Nangolo Mbumba uitgereik is, onwettig was. Namandje sê verloorders moet nie die hof vir politieke gewin gebruik nie.

Die parlementêre staande komitee vir natuurlike hulpbronne het 'n verslag oor onwettige litiummynbou in Uis in die Erongo-streek vrygestel, na 'n mosie deur die voormalige parlementslid Henny Seibeb in April 2024. Die verslag beklemtoon wydverspreide ongemagtigde mynbou as gevolg van swak regulering en buitelandse betrokkenheid. Baie mynwerkers werk sonder lisensies of omgewingsklarings, wat lei tot 'n inkomsteverlies vir die regering, onbillike mededinging vir wettige ondernemings en die uitbuiting van plaaslike werkers sonder veiligheidsvoorwaardes. Daar is ernstige omgewingsbeskadiging, insluitend gronddegradasie, ontbossing en waterbesoedeling. Die verslag vra vir strenger afdwinging van wette, gemeenskapsbetrokkenheid en volhoubare mynbeleide om die toenemende kwessies aan te spreek. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het met die voormalige LPM-parlementslid Henny Seibeb gepraat, wat sê die verslag is onvolledig.

Die hooggeregshof sal op 28 Februarie uitspraak lewer oor die uitdaging oor die presidensiële verkiesing terwyl die hoërhof, wat ook ‘n aansoek aanhoor oor die parlementêre verkiesing en die verlenging van stemmery, daarvoor wag voor hy sy verhoor hervat. Die partye wat die uitdagings gebring het is die IPC en die LPM. By ‘n perskonferensie in die hoofstad vanoggend het LPM-leier Bernadus Swartbooi die kern van hulle saak so uiteengesit.

Transportation issues with Jefferson County Public Schools have resulted in cuts, lawsuits and hardships for families trying to get students back and forth to school. On this episode, we talk about JCPS and transportation. How do other cities handle it? And how does our own system compare? Our guests are Jess Clark, who covers education for LPM, and Sebastian Martinez Hickey, an analyst and researcher with the Economic Policy Institute.

Vyf regters van die hooggeregshof hoor vandag en môre die aansoek aan deur IPC-leier Panduleni Ithula, wat aspekte van die presidensiële verkiesing betwis. Die LPM steun die IPC in die aansoek. Tydens die LPM se hoofde van argument wat deur Suid-Afrikaanse advokaat Kameel Premhid voorgelees is, het die amptelike resultate verklaring-vorms, vorms 26, wat nie deur die Verkiesingskommissie as bewyse ingehandig is nie, ter sprake gekom.

Die Verkiesingskommissie van Namibië se verkiesingskommissaris, Pius Iikwambi, berig dat die tussenverkiesing in die Guinas-kiesafdeling vlot verloop. Die tussenverkiesing is genoodsaak deur die dood van oudraadslid Elias Martinus op 21 Oktober verlede jaar. Twee kandidate uit dieselfde familie ding mee, Swapo se Moses Khumub en die LPM se Fransiscus Khumub. Stemlokale sluit om 7-uur en Iikwambi gee meer inligting.

Die herrie rondom die aanstelling van ‘n nuwe raad by die Nasionale Jeugraad deur die lynminister Agnes Tjongarero weier om te bedaar. Lede van die jeugraad self maak amok, na ‘n hofbevel bekom is teen Julia Nekwaya van die PDM-jeugliga en William Minnie van die LPM. Maar, ‘n lid van die jeugraad wat verkies was en eensydig ter syde gestel is deur die minister se eie raad, sê hulle eise duur voort. Claudina Shimanda sê hulle het die kantoor van die eerste minister genader en sal dit nie daar los nie.

'n Hofbevel is uitgereik wat Julia Nekwaya van die PDM se jeugliga en William Minnie van die LPM verbied om die bedrywighede van die Nasionale Jeugraad te belemmer. Dit kom na protesaksie oor die tussentydse raad wat deur die lynminister aangestel is na ‘n raad reeds verkies was. Ten spyte hiervan gaan die res van die groep jongmense voort en het 'n protes vir vandag gereël by die Jeugraad se hoofkwartier. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gepraat met Vakamuine Kamutueza van die PDM, wat hulle eise uiteensit.

Protesaksie oor die tussentydse Nasionale Jeugraad wat deur die lynminister aangestel is na ‘n raad reeds verkies was, duur voort. Twee van die verkose raad se leiers, Julia Nekwaya van die PDM se jeugliga en William Minnie van die LPM, is deur 'n hofbevel verbied om die tussentydse raad se bedrywighede te belemmer. Ondersteuners van die verkose raad het vandag in die hoofstad saamgetrek en het die kantoor van die eerste minister met hulle klagtes genader. Claudina Shimanda, 'n lid van die verkose jeugraad, sê as die kantoor van die eerste minister nie reageer nie, sal hulle die president nader.

Die IPC en LPM se uitdaging in die verkiesingshof duur voort. ‘n Kostebewaringsbevel is deur die respondente aangevra en is uitgereik met 450 000 Namibiese dollar in totaal wat voorsien moet word. Intussen het die IPC en LPM gevra dat die saak eers moet oorstaan tot die hooggeregshof sy beslissing in Februarie lewer. Advokaat Raymond Heathcote, vir die president, sê dit is onaanvaarbaar dat ‘n dringende aansoek gebring word en dat daar dan gevra word dat die saak moet oorstaan. Hy sê die IPC se sekretaris-generaal Christine !Aochamus het groot gepraat oor hulle saak, maar die respondente kry geweldige ondersteuning.

AI is much more than ChatGPT! In this episode of LPM's Inside Scoop Podcast, we hear more about applications to help LP (and other retail teams) become more efficient and solve problems quickly. Caleb Popow and Scott Pethuyne chatted with Stefanie about what Zebra is working on in the AI space.  How might KPIs and risk modeling be improved? What are the challenges of businesses adopting AI in day-to-day practice? In this episode, we hear about solutions that are moving at the speed of light, including the state of the artZebra Workcloud Actionable Intelligence platform. Learn more in this podcast!

Julia Nekwaya van die PDM se jeugliga het met Kosmos 94.1 Nuus gepraat na waarnemende regter Anne-Doris Hans Kaumbi 'n hofbevel uitgereik wat haar en William Minnie van die LPM verbied om sy bedrywighede te belemmer. Dit kom na protesaksie oor die tussentydse raad wat deur die lynminister aangestel is na ‘n raad reeds verkies was. Nekwaya waarsku dat jeug-betogings soos die wat in Kenia voorgekom het ook plaaslik kop kan uitsteek.

Die Regbank het die paneel van regters bevestig wat die uitdaging van die verkiesingsuitslae wat deur die IPC en die LPM gebring is, in die Verkiesingshof sal aanhoor. Die paneel van drie regters sal bestaan uit regters Hannelie Prinsloo, Orben Sibeya en Esi Schimming-Chase. Die saak sal môre aangehoor word. Vroeër vandag het verskeie opposisie-partye by die parlement vergader om hul steun vir die LPM en IPC se saak te toon. Michael Amushelelo, wat die Namibië Ekonomiese Vryheidsvegters verteenwoordig, was daar en sê Namibiërs moet nie die uitslag van die verkiesing aanvaar nie.

'n Herhaling van verlede jaar se algemene verkiesing kan moontlik die vertroue van die kiesers wat opgedaag het om te stem erodeer, volgens politieke kommentators. Hulle waarsku ook dat die finansiële koste van so 'n oefening astronomies kan wees. Dit kom in die lig van die aansoek van die IPC en LPM wat die uitslag van die verkiesing in die Hooggeregshof uitdaag, en aanvoer dat die verkiesing herhaal moet word. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het met die voormalige ombudsman advokaat John Walters gesels, wat sê hy twyfel of die onreëlmatighede so swaar sal weeg.

In this episode of LPM's Inside Scoop Podcast, Stefanie Hoover chats with Jamie Kress from Sensormatic about their recent meeting at Auburn University. In the third year of this event, retailers gathered to learn more about RFID, Smart Exits, pilots, rollouts, how to sell the program internally, partnering with and educating law enforcement on RFID, and many other topics. They went hands-on in the RFID lab at Auburn as well! Check out this podcast to learn what you missed at this event.

Die twee-dag inspeksie van verkiesingsmateriaal is Donderdagmiddag voltooi maar, die LPM, wat een van die hofaansoekers was, sê daar was nie genoeg tyd nie. Die party se woordvoerder Lifalaza Simataa sê amptenare van die Verkiesingskommissie was nie altyd hulpvaardig nie en, ongerymdhede is gevind.

Vandag is die eerste dag van twee dae waarop verteenwoordigers van politieke partye verkiesingsmateriaal kan nagaan. Dit volg op die dringende hofaansoeke van die IPC en LPM wat saamgevoeg is en verlede week Vrydag aangehoor is. Kommissaris Pius Iikwambi van die Verkiesingskommissie van Namibië, ECN, het aan die begin van die proses by hulle hoofkwartier in Windhoek gesê die kommissie is toegewy aan deursigtigheid. Hy sê ingevolge die hofbevel mag stembusse nie oopgemaak word nie.

Die IPC en die LPM se dringende aansoek in die Verkiesingshof oor aspekte van die Nasionale Vergadering-verkiesings kom nege-uur voor regters Nate Ndauendapo, Beatrix de Jager en Orben Sibeya voor. Die partye dagvaar die Namibië Verkiesingskommissie, die kommissie se uitvoerende hoof Elsie Nghikembua, en president Nongolo Mbumba in afsonderlike sake wat saam aangehoor word. Hulle daag nie die uitslae uit nie maar die wettigheid van die proses. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gesels met Henk Mudge van die Republikeinse Party, wat die saak ondersteun.

Regters Nate Ndauendapo, Beatrix de Jager en Orben Sibeya het die IPC en LPM se aansoeke, , wat saamgevoeg is, as dringend aanvaar en die Verkiesingskommissie opdrag gegee om verskeie inligting aan die partye te verskaf. Ndauendapo het die hof se bevel gegee.

Die Verkiesingskommissie is in die Verkiesingshof opdrag gegee om inligting aan die IPC en LPM te verskaf, soos aangevra in hul dringende aansoeke. Die partye het afsonderlike aansoeke ingedien oor aspekte van die Nasionale Vergadering-verkiesings, wat toe saamgevoeg is. Hulle kan op 18 en 19 Desember toegang kry tot verkiesingsmateriaal, en die polisie moet teenwoordig wees. Kosmos 94.1 Nuus het gesels met die sekretaris-generaal van die Republikeinse Party, Elvire Theron, wat sê dit is net die begin.

In this episode of CLOC Talk, guest host Jeremiah Kincannon, advisor on CLOC's Voice and Brand Council chats with CJ Nicastro, Program Manager, Global Affairs & Legal Strategy Operations at Google and Scott Rosenberg, Managing Director & Corporate Counsel at Unbiased Consulting, LLC, both co-chairs of the CLOC Legal Project Management Committee. They discuss the relevance and application of Legal Project Management, otherwise known as LPM in the legal industry. CJ and Scott highlight misconceptions about LPM and the importance of integrating project management principles into legal workflows. They emphasize the need for lawyers to embrace project management skills and the value of matter lifecycle management for improving efficiency and process alignment. Tune in as this episode covers strategies for gaining leadership buy-in for LPM initiatives and offers guidance for legal professionals looking to enhance their project management capabilities.

Today's Topics:1. Sound Signature Review 6.170 – Liberty Precision Machine Anthem-S2 QD on .308 bolt-action. The new iteration of the Anthem series from LPM. Technical discussion of last week's publication. (00:08:36)2. Sound Signature Review 6.171 – Liberty Precision Machine Anthem-S2 QD again – this time with subsonic 300 BLK. You saw its titanium big brother, the Mach-L, last month. Do you lose much going shorter? Technical discussion of last week's second publication. (00:32:08)3. I was on the Open Source Defense podcast! If you haven't heard of that organization, they have a cool publication and newsletter you can check out! (00:55:42)Sponsored by - Silencer Shop, Top Gun Range Houston, Legion Athletics, Capitol Armory, and the PEW Science Laboratory!Legion Athletics: use code pewscience for 20% off your first order and double points!Magpul: Use code PSTEN to receive $10 off your order of $100 or more at Magpul

Today's Topics:1. Sound Signature Review 6.170 – Liberty Precision Machine Anthem-S2 QD on .308 bolt-action. The new iteration of the Anthem / Mach series from LPM. Any improvements to note? Introductory discussion for today's publication. (00:05:36)2. Sound Signature Review 6.171 – Liberty Precision Machine Anthem-S2 QD again – this time with subsonic 300 BLK. You saw its titanium big brother, the Mach-L, last month. Do you lose much going shorter? You may be surprised! Introductory discussion for today's second publication! (00:19:42)Sponsored by - Silencer Shop, Top Gun Range Houston, Legion Athletics, Capitol Armory, and the PEW Science Laboratory!Legion Athletics: use code pewscience for 20% off your first order and double points!Magpul: Use code PSTEN to receive $10 off your order of $100 or more at Magpul

Quer saber como fazer investimentos imobiliários inteligentes e lucrativos? Descubra com Cézar Haik os segredos do mercado de luxo e a fórmula LPM que garante sucesso! Entre em contato com o Cézar Haik: WHATSAPP DO CÉZAR

Happy National Midwifery Week!We are so thankful for and in awe of all midwives do. Great midwives can literally make all the difference. Statistical evidence shows that they can help you have both better birth experiences and outcomes.Meagan and Julie break down the different types of midwives including CNMs, CPM, DEMs, and LPM as well as the settings in which you can find them. They talk about the pros and cons of choosing midwifery care within a hospital or outside of a hospital either at home or in a birth center. We encourage you to interview all types of providers in all types of settings. You may be surprised where your intuition leads you and where you feel is the safest place for you to rock your birth!Midwifery-led Care in Low- and Middle-Income CountriesEvidence-Based Birth Article: The Evidence on MidwivesArticle: Planning a VBAC with Midwifery Care in AustraliaThe VBAC Link Supportive Provider ListNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hey, hey, hey. You guys, we're talking about midwives today, and when I say we, I mean me and Julie. I have Julie on with us today. Hello, my darling. Julie: Hello! You know, sometimes you've just got to unmute yourself. Meagan: Her headphones were muted, you guys. Julie: Yeah. That's amazing. Meagan: I'm like, “I can't hear you.” You guys, guess what? This is our first month at The VBAC Link where I'm bringing a special subject. Every month we are going to have a week and it's usually going to be the second week of the month where we are going to have a specific topic for those episodes of the week and this is the very first one. It is National Midwives' Week so I thought it would be really fun this week to talk about midwives. We love midwives. We love them. We love them and we are so grateful for them. We want to talk more about the impact that they leave when it comes to our overall experience. Julie: Yes. Meagan: The overall outcomes and honestly, just how flipping amazing they are. We want to talk more and then we'll share of course a story with a midwifery birth. Okay, Julie. You have a review. I'm sticking it to her today to read the review because sometimes I feel like it's nice to switch it up. Julie: Yeah. Let's switch it up. All right, this review– I'm assuming “VBAC Encouragement” is the title of the review.” Meagan: Yes. Julie: “VBAC Encouragement”. It says, “My first birth ended in an emergency Cesarean at 29 weeks and I knew as I was being rolled into the OR that I would go for a VBAC with my next baby. Not long after, The VBAC Link started and I was instantly obsessed.” I love to hear that. “I love the wide range of VBAC and CBAC stories. Listening to the women share honestly and openly was motivating and encouraging. As a doula, this podcast is something that I recommend to my VBAC clients. I'm so thankful for the brave women sharing the good, bad, and ugly of their stories and I'm thankful for Meagan and Julie for holding space for us all.” Aww, I love that. Meagan: I do too. I love the title, “VBAC Encouragement.” That is what this podcast is here for– to encourage you along the way no matter what you choose but to bring that encouragement, that empowerment, and the information from women all over the world literally. All over the world because you guys, we are not alone. I know that sometimes we can feel alone. I feel like sometimes VBAC journeys can feel isolating and it sucks. We don't want you to feel that way so that's why we started the podcast. That's why I'm here. That's why Julie comes on because she misses you and loves you all so much too and we want you to feel that encouragement. Meagan: Okay, you guys. We are talking about midwives. If you have never been cared for by a midwife, I think this is a really great episode to learn more about that and see if midwifery care is something that may apply to you or be something that is desired by you. I know that when I was going along with my VBAC journey, I didn't interview a midwife actually at first. I interviewed OB after OB after OB. Julie did interview a midwife and it didn't go over very well. Julie: No, it was fine. It just didn't feel right at that time. Meagan: What she said didn't make it feel right. What I want to talk about too and the reason why I point that out is because go check out the midwives in your area. Check them out. Go check them out. Really, interview them. Meet with them but guess what? It's okay if it doesn't feel right. It's okay if everyone is like, “Go, go, go. You have to have a midwife. OB no. OB no.” That's not how we are in this podcast. We are like, “Find the right provider for you.” But I do think that midwives are amazing and I do think they bring a different feel and different experience to a birth but even then sometimes you can go and interview a midwife and they're not the right fit. We're going to talk about the types of midwives. This isn't really a type. We're going to be talking about CPM, DEM, and LPM. Julie: In-hospital and out-of-hospital midwives, yeah. Meagan: Yeah, but I also want to talk about the word “medwives”. We have said this in the past where we say, “Oh, that midwife is a ‘medwife'” and what we mean by that is just that they may be more medically-minded. Every midwife is different and every view is different. Like Julie was saying, in-hospital, out-of-hospital, you may have more of a ‘medwife' out of the hospital, but guess what? I've also seen some out-of-hospital midwives who act more like, ‘medwives', really truly. Again, it goes back to finding the right person for you. But can we talk about that? The CPM or DEM? CPM is a certified professional midwife or direct entry midwife, right? Am I correct?Julie: Right. It's really interesting because all over the world, the requirements for midwifery are different. You're going to find different requirements in each country than in the United States, every state has its different requirements and laws surrounding midwifery care. In some states, out-of-hospital midwives cannot attend VBAC at all or they can as long as it's in a birth center. Or sometimes CNM– is a certified nurse midwife which is the credential that you have to have if you are going to work in a hospital but there are some CNMs who do out-of-hospital births as well. There is CPM which is a certified professional midwife which a lot of the midwives are out-of-hospital. That means they have taken the NARM exam which is the national association of registered midwives so they are registered with a national association.Meagan: Northern American Registry of Midwives. Julie: Oh yes. They have completed hundreds of births, lots and lots of hours, gone through the entire certification process and that's a certified midwife. Now, a licensed midwife which is a LDEM, a licensed direct-entry midwife just simply means that they hold licensure with the state. Licencsed midwife and certified midwife is different. Certified means they are certified with the board. Licensed means they are licensed with the state and usually licensed midwives can carry things like Pitocin, Methergine, antibiotics for GBS and things like that which is what the difference is. Licensed means they can have access to these different drugs for care. Meagan: Like Pitocin, and certain things through the IV, medications for hemorrhage, antibiotics, yes. Julie: Right, then CPMs who are certified, yeah. There are arguments for both. And DEM, direct entry midwife means that they are not certified or licensed. That doesn't mean that they are less than, it just means that they are not bound by the rules of NARM or the state. Now, there are again arguments for and against all of these different types. I mean, there are pros and cons to holding certification, holding licensure, and not holding certification and not holding licensure. Each midwife has to decide which route is best for them. Certified nurse-midwife obviously has access to all of the drugs and all of the things. They are certified and licensed. You could call it that but they have to have hospital privileges if they want to deliver in the hospital. You can't just be a CNM and show up to any hospital to deliver with them. They have to have privileges at that hospital. They have to work and be associated with a hospital just like an OB. An OB has to have privileges at any hospital. They can't just walk into any old hospital and deliver a baby. Meagan: Right. I think it's important to know the differences between the providers who you are looking at. Like she was saying, with a CNM, you are more likely to have that type of midwife in a hospital setting than you would be outside of the hospital but sometimes there are still CNMs who have privileges and choose to do birth outside of the hospital. I think it's an important thing to one, know the different types of midwives and two, know what's important to you. There are a lot of people who are like, “I will not birth with anyone else but a CNM.” That's okay. That's okay but you have to find what works best for you. Julie: Sorry, can I add in? Meagan: You're fine. Yeah. Julie: It's also important that you are familiar with the laws in your state if you are going out of the hospital. I don't want this episode to turn into a home birth episode. It should be about all of the midwives in all of the locations, but also, know what the laws are in your state and in your specific area about midwives. In Utah, we are really lucky because we have access to all the types of midwives in all the different locations, but not everywhere is like that. Yeah. Just a little plug-in for that. Meagan: Yes. I agree. I agree. I did mention that I didn't really go for midwifery care when I was looking for my VBAC– Lyla, my second. I don't even know why other than in my mind, this is going to sound so bad but in my mind, I was told that midwives are undereducated. Julie: Less qualified? Meagan: Less qualified to support VBAC. I was told this by many people out in the world and I just believed it. Again, I have grown a lot over the years. It's been so great and I'm glad that I have. That's just where I was.Julie: A lot of people think that though. People don't know. They just don't know. Meagan: No, they don't know so I wanted to boom. Did you hear it? I'm smashing it. Julie: Snipping it. Meagan: That is a myth that is going to be smashed. Midwives are fully capable of supporting you during your VBAC journey. We are going to start going over some stats and things about how midwives really actually do impact VBAC in a positive way but you may even run into and at least I know there are some places here in Utah where providers kind of oversee the midwifery groups in these hospitals and a lot of them will say that midwives are unable to support VBAC. That's another thing that you need to make sure you are asking if you are going in the hospital when you are birthing with midwives because a lot of times you are being seen with your midwife, you're treated by your midwife and everything is great. You've got this relationship with these midwives and then you go into labor and all of a sudden you have an OB overseeing your care because that midwife can oversee your pregnancy but not your birth. Know that that is a thing so make sure that if you are birthing in a hospital with a midwife that you ask, “Will I be birthing with the midwives or am I going to be seen by an OB?” But also know, like I said, you can be seen in a hospital by a midwife. Okay, let's talk about some evidence and what midwives bring to the table and maybe some differences that midwives bring to the table because I do think that in a lot of ways, it is scary to think, Okay. If I have to have a C-section, if I do not have this VBAC and I have to go to a C-section and I have to be treated by an OB– because midwives do not perform Cesareans. They do assist. Let me just say, a lot of midwives come in and they assist a Cesarean, but they do not perform the main Cesarean, that can be intimidating because you want your same provider but I don't know if that's necessarily needed all of the time. Maybe to someone that is. But just know that yes, they cannot perform a Cesarean but they often can assist. That's another good question to ask your midwife, especially in the hospital. If I go to a Cesarean, who will perform it and will you be there no matter what?Okay, let's talk about it. Let's talk about the evidence. Let's talk about experiences and how they can differ. Julie: Do you know what is so funny? I want to go back and touch on the beginning where you said you didn't know and you thought that midwives were less qualified and honestly especially in-hospital, in-hospital midwives– I want everyone to turn their ears on right now– have the exact same training and skills to deliver a baby vaginally as an OB does. The difference between a midwife and an OB in a hospital is a midwife cannot do surgery. I just want to say that very concisely. They are just as qualified. They can even do forceps deliveries. They can do an episiotomy if an episiotomy is necessary. They can do vacuum assist. Well, some hospitals have policies where they will or will not allow a midwife to do forceps or a vacuum but they can administer all different types of medications. They can literally do everything. They can do everything except for the surgery in the hospital.Out of the hospital, I would argue that they still have similar training depending on if they are licensed or not. They may or may not be carrying medications like Pitocin, Methergine, antibiotics, IV fluids, and things like that. But out-of-hospital midwives, many of them, at least the licensed ones, carry those things and can provide the same level of care. The only difference between– not the only difference, a big difference between out-of-hospital midwives and in-hospital midwives is they don't have immediate access to the OR and an OB. But guess what? In states like Utah and many, many states operate similarly, there are very strict and efficient transfer protocols in place so that when a midwife decides you need to transfer, say you are birthing at home, first of all, a midwife is going to be with you a big chunk of the time. They are going to be with you. They're going to be noticing things. They're going to be seeing things. They're not going to be there for just the last 10 minutes of deliveries like these OBs are. They are going to be in your house. I feel like out-of-hospital midwives are more present with you than in-hospital midwives even. They're going to notice things. They're going to see things. They're going to notice trends a lot of the time before a situation becomes emergent if you need to be transferred. There are those random last-second emergencies and there are protocols for how to handle those too, but the majority of the time when there is a transfer needed, you are going to be received at the hospital. The hospital is already going to have your records. They're already going to know what you're coming in for and they're going to be able to seamlessly take over your care, no matter what that looks like there. Now there are rare emergencies when you might need care within seconds. However, those are incredibly rare and that is one of the risks. Those are some of the risks that you need to consider when you think about out-of-hospital versus in-hospital care. But often, I have seen many instances where things have safely gotten transferred to a hospital before they reach the level of needing that severe emergent care. I think that is the biggest thing people don't understand. I don't know how many people I've talked to as a doula and as a birth photographer where they don't want to birth at home because they don't understand the level of care that is provided by out-of-hospital midwives. I'm thinking of a birth I just went to last summer and she was thinking about home birth but the husband was like– this was 36 weeks so they weren't comfortable transferring or anything like that, but I was like, “These home birth midwives are trained in emergencies. They know how to handle all of the same obstetric emergencies in the exact same ways that they do in the hospital. They know how to handle them and address them. If a transfer is necessary, they are going to transfer you. They carry medication. They have stethoscopes and fetal monitors and everything that they do in the hospital to care for you.” The dad was like, “Oh, I didn't know that.” It's not your mom coming to help you deliver your baby. It's a trained, qualified medical professional. I don't know. I saw this quote. Never mind. I'm not circling back. I'm going in a completely different direction. I saw this quote or a little meme thing on Facebook the other day. I was going to send it to you but I didn't. It said something like, “Once your provider and birth location is chosen and locked in place, choice is mostly an illusion.” Meagan: Wow. Mostly an illusion. Julie: Yes. Like the fact that you have a choice in your care is mostly an illusion. I was thinking about that and I was like, Is it really? I've seen some clients really advocate hard, and stuff like that. But I have also seen the majority of clients where providers, nurses, and birth locations have a heavy sway and you can be convinced that things are absolutely necessary and needed by the way that you are approached and if you are approached a different way, then you might make a different choice, right? The power of the provider and the birth location is so big and massive that choice, the fact that you have a choice involved, is mostly an illusion. I was sitting with that because I see it. I've said it before and I'll say it a million more times before I die probably that birth photographers and doulas have the most well-rounded view of birth. Period. Because we see birth in home, in birth centers, in hospitals, in all of the hospitals, in all of the homes, in all the birth centers, with all of the different providers. We can tell you what hospital– I mean, there are nurses at one hospital that will swear up, down, and sideways that this is the way to do things and the next hospital 3 miles down the road is going to do things completely different and their nurses are going to swear by a different way to do things because of the environment that they are in. Meagan: Yeah. 100%.Julie: So if you want to know in your area what hospitals are the best for the type of birth that you want, talk to a birth photographer. Talk to a doula because they are going to be the ones with the most well-rounded view. Period. Meagan: Yeah. We definitely see a lot, you guys. We really do. Remember, if you are looking for a doula, check out thevbaclink.com/findadoula. Search for a doula in your area. You guys, these doulas are amazing and they are VBAC-certified. Julie: What were we going to circle back to? You were saying something. Meagan: Well, there's an article titled, “Effectiveness of Midwifery-led Care on Pregnancy Outcomes in Low and Middle-Income Countries” which is interesting because a lot of the time, when we are in low and middle-income countries, the support is not good. Anyway, they went through and it said that “10 studies were eligible for inclusion in the systemic review of which 5 studies were eligible for inclusion in the meta-analysis. Women receiving–”Julie: I love meta-analyses. They are my favorite. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. Go on. Meagan: I know you do. It says, “Women receiving midwifery-led care had a significantly lower rate of postpartum hemorrhage and reduced rate of birth–” How do you say this, Julie? It's like asphyxia? Julie: Asphyxia? Meagan: Uh-huh. I've just never known how to say that. It says, “The meta-analysis further showed a significantly reduced risk in emergency Cesarean section. Within the conclusion, it did show that midwifery-led care had a significantly positive impact on improving various maternal and neonatal outcomes in low and middle-income countries. We therefore advise widespread implementation of midwifery-led care in low and middle-income countries.” Let's beef this up in low and middle-income countries. But what does it mean if you are not in a low and middle-income country? Julie: Well, I see the same and similar studies showing that in the United States and all of these other bigger countries that are larger and more educated. It's interesting because– sorry. I have a thought. I'm just trying to put it together. Meagan: That is okay. Julie: Midwifery-led care is probably more accessible and maybe accessible isn't the right word. It's more common probably in lower-income countries. I'm thinking third-world countries and second-world countries because it's expensive to go to a hospital. It's expensive to have an OB. In some countries like Brazil, the C-section rate is very, very high and it's a sign of wealth and status because you can go to this private hospital with these luxury birth suites and stay like a VIP, get your C-section, save your vagina– I use air quotes– “save your vagina” by going to this affluent hospital. Right? Meagan: Yes. Julie: I think in lower-income countries, it's going to be not only an easier thing to do but kind of the only thing to do, maybe the only choice. And here, it's funny because here, out-of-hospital births– first of all, insurance is stupid. In the United States, insurances are so stupid. It's a huge money-making organization, the medical system is. Insurance does cover a big chunk of hospital births and they don't cover out-of-hospital births so a lot of the time, an out-of-hospital birth is kind of the opposite. You have to have a little bit of money in order to pay for an out-of-hospital midwife because your insurance isn't likely going to cover it. More insurances are coming on board with that but it will be a little bit of time before we see that shift. But there are similar outcomes in the United States and in wealthier countries that midwifery-led care, not just out of the hospital, but in-hospital midwifery-led care has lower rates of Cesarean, lower rates of complication, lower rates of induction, lower rates of mortality and morbidity than obstetric-led care. You are going to a surgeon. You are going to a trained surgeon to have a natural, non-complicated delivery. Meagan: It's interesting because going back to the low income, in our minds, we think that the care is not that great. But then we look at it and it's like, the care is doing pretty good over there in these lower-income, third-world countries. Yeah. This is actually in Evidence-Based Birth. It says, “In the United States, there are typically 4 million births each year.” 4 million. You guys, that's a lot. The majority of these births are attended by physicians which are only 9% attended by certified nurse midwives and less than 1% are attended by CPMs, so certified professional midwives or traditional midwives. You guys, that is insane. That is so low. She says in this podcast of hers which we are going to make sure to link because I think it's a really great one, “If you only look at vaginal births, midwives do attend a higher portion of vaginal births in the United States, but still it's only about 14%.”Julie: Yeah. If you have a normal– I use normal very loosely– uncomplicated pregnancy, there is absolutely no reason that you cannot see a midwife either out of the hospital or in the hospital. Now, I would encourage you to go and interview some midwives in your local hospitals. I would encourage you to look into the local birth community and see what people recommend because even if you are going in a hospital and have a midwife, you have the same access to the OR and an OB that can take care of you in case of an emergency. A lot of people are like, “Well, I'd just rather see an OB just in case of an emergency so that way I know who is doing my C-section,” I promise you that the OB doing your C-section, you are only going to see for an hour. They probably are not going to talk to you. It doesn't matter how personable they are or what their bedside manner is or if you know anything because I promise you, when you are on the operating room table, you're not going to be worried about who's doing your surgery. You're just not. I'm sorry. That's maybe a harsh thing to say, but it's going to be the farthest thing from your mind. Plus, in the hospital, your midwife is more than likely going to be assisting with the surgery too so you are going to have a familiar face in the operating room if that happens. I also think everybody knows by now that I am not on board with doing something just in case when it comes to medical care. Just in case things can cause a lot more problems that they are trying to prevent. So yeah. Anyway, that's my two cents. Meagan: Yeah. You know, I really think that when it comes to midwives, there is even more than just reducing things like interventions and Cesareans and inductions which of course, lead to interventions and things like that. I feel like overall, people leave their birth experience having that better view on the birth because of things like that where midwives are with you more and they seem to be allowed more time even with insurance. You guys, insurance, like she said, sucks. It just sucks. It limits our providers. I want to just point that out that a lot of these OBs, I think that they would spend more time with us. I think they want to spend more time with us in a lot of ways, but they can't because insurance pulls them down and makes it so they can't. But these midwives are able to spend so much more time with us in many ways. Okay. Let's see. What else do we want to talk about here? We talked about interventions. Midwives will typically allow parents to go past that 40-week mark. We talked about the ARRIVE trial here in the past where they started inducing first-time moms at 39 weeks and unfortunately, it's stuck in a lot of ways so providers are inducing at 39 weeks and that means we are starting to do things like stripping membranes at 37 and 38 weeks. It seems like providers really, really– and when I say providers, like OB/GYNs, they are really wanting babies to be born for sure by 40 weeks but by 40 weeks, they are really pushing it. Midwives to tend to allow the parents to go past that 40-week mark. That's just something else I've noticed with clients who choose VBAC and then end up choosing midwives. They'll often end up choosing midwives because of that reason and they will feel so much better when they reach that point in pregnancy because they don't feel that crazy pressure to strip their membranes and go into labor or they are going to be facing a Cesarean and things like that. I feel like that's another really big way to change the feeling of your care with midwives is understanding when it comes down to the end of things, they are going to be a little bit more lenient and understanding and not press as hard. Like we said in the beginning, there are a lot of people who do press it– those “medwives” where they are like, “No, you need to have a baby.” We just recorded a story where the midwife was like, “Well, you need to see the OB and you need to do a membrane sweep,” and they were suggesting these things. But really, typically with midwives, you are going to see less pressure in the end of pregnancy. Midwives spend more time in prenatal visits. We were just talking about that. Insurance can limit OBs, but a lot of the time, they will really spend more time with you. They are going to spend 20+ minutes and if you are out of the hospital, sometimes they will spend a whole hour with you going over things. Where are you mentally? Where are you physically? What are you wanting? Going over desires and the plan for the birth. Past experiences may be creeping in because we know that past experiences can creep in along the way. So yeah. Okay, Julie is in her car, you guys. She's rocking it with her cute sunglasses. She is on her way. She is so nice to have the last half hour of her free time spent with us. So Julie, do you have any insight or any extra words on what I was just saying? Julie: You know, I do. Hopefully, you can hear me okay. I'm going to hit a dead spot in two seconds. Meagan: I can hear you great. Julie: Okay, perfect. I have this little– there's a spot on my road where I always cut out so stop me if I need to repeat what I said. I wanted to go back to the beginning and just talk for half a second because we know my first ended in a C-section. For my first birth, I actually started out by looking at birth centers because I wanted an out-of-hospital birth. I knew that from the beginning. I interviewed a couple of midwives and there was one group that I was going to go with at a birth center and I was ready to go but something didn't quite feel right. It wasn't anything the midwives did. It wasn't anything that the birth center was. It wasn't that I didn't feel safe there. It was just that something didn't feel right. So I just stayed with my OB/GYN. I had to get on Clomid to get pregnant. I just stayed with that guy who is the same guy that Meagan had and the same guy who did my C-section because something didn't feel right. I mean, we know now and I can look back in hindsight. This was, gosh, 11.5 years ago. I know that I ended up having preeclampsia and I ended up having to get induced because of it. Had I started out-of-hospital, I would have had to transfer. There was nothing– I would have had to transfer care before I even got to 37 weeks. I had a 36-week induction. That's the thing though. Out-of-hospital midwives have protocols. Each state has different guidelines, but there are requirements for when they have to transfer care– if your blood pressure is high, if you have preeclampsia signs, if you deliver before a certain due date, or after a certain gestational age. You're going to be safe. If you have complications in pregnancy, you're going to be safe. You're going to be transferred. You're going to be cared for. But also, I just want to put emphasis on this which is what I'm tying into the last thing I want to say which is going to be forever long, is that you can trust your intuition. My intuition was telling me that the birth center was not the right place for me even though it checked all of the boxes. Your intuition is not going to tell the future every time, but what I wanted to lead into is that– oh and do you know what is so funny also? I had three out-of-hospital births after that, but with my fourth birth, I started out with the same midwife I had for the other two home births, and for some reason, I felt like I needed to transfer care back to the hospital so I went back to the hospital for two months and all of a sudden, my insurance change and the biggest network of hospitals in my state wasn't covered by my insurance anymore so it felt right to go back to out-of-hospital birth. I don't know why I had to do that whole loop-dee-loop of transferring to a hospital just to transfer back to the same out-of-hospital midwife that I had in the first place but I believe there was a purpose to that. I believe there was a purpose to that. I want to tell you guys that if seeking midwifery care whether in the hospital or out of the hospital feels uncomfortable to you or feels like, I don't know. These midwives still sound like chicken-dancing hippies to me, I would encourage you to go talk to some local midwives whether in a hospital or out of the hospital. Just sit down and talk to them and say, “Hey.” It's easier to talk to an out-of-hospital midwife. Out-of-hospital midwives do free consultations for you. In-hospital midwives, you might have to make an appointment and it might be harder but you should still try and see and get a vibe or just transfer care to them and go to a few appointments and see. You can always switch care back to a different provider or an OB because your intuition is smart but it does not know, it cannot guide you about things that you do not know anything about. I would encourage you to go and chat with these different providers, even different OBs if you want because your provider choice is so, so, so important. It is one of the most important decisions you're going to make in your care for your birth. It should be a good one. Your intuition can't tell you to go see x, y, z provider if you don't even know who x, y, z provider is. Gather as much information as you can. Talk to as many providers as you can. Go see the midwife. Interview the doula. Check out the birth photographer's website. See what I did there? See how it feels because even as a birth photographer, whenever I'm doing interviews with people, I'm not a fly-on-the-wall birth photographer. A lot of birth photographers brag about being a fly on the wall. You won't even know I'm there. No. I don't buy that because who is in your birth space is important. I am a member of your birth team just like every other person in that space, just like your nurses, your OB, your midwife, your doula– everybody there is a member of your birth team. I am a member of your birth team too and I will hold space for you. I will support you and I will love you. I am not a fly on the wall. Now, your provider is a member of your birth team. They probably arguably are one of the biggest influencers about how your birth is going to go and you deserve to be well-informed about who they are. You deserve to have multiple options that you know about and have thoroughly vetted and you deserve to stick up for yourself and do the provider who is more in line with the type of birth you want. How do you do that? You do that by finding out more about the providers who are available to you in all of the different birth locations and settings. Meagan: Yes. So I want to talk more about that too because there are studies and papers out there showing that the attitude or the view on VBAC in that area, in that hospital, in that birth center, both midwives and OBs, but we are talking about midwives here, really impacts the way that a birth can go. So if you don't interview and you don't research and you don't find those connections and even try, you will not know and in the end, it may not be the way you want. Even then, even if we find those perfect midwives, even if Julie went to the hospital midwife, she probably would have had a great experience, but who knows?Julie: Also, arguable too though, you could be seeing the most highly recommended VBAC provider in your area in the most VBAC-supportive hospital in your area that everybody goes to and everybody raves about, and if you don't feel comfortable there for whatever reason, you don't have to see the best, most VBAC-supportive provider if it doesn't feel right and if it doesn't sit right with you. Meagan: Yes. Julie: It goes both ways. Meagan: Yes. Julie: Sorry, I'm really passionate about this clearly. Meagan: No, because it does. It goes both ways. I mean, that's what this podcast is about is conversation and story sharing and finding what's best for you because even with VBAC, VBAC might not be the right option for you, but you don't know unless you learn. You don't know unless you learn more about midwives. Really though, people usually come out of midwifery care having a better experience and a more positive experience. I think that goes along with the lines of they do give a little bit more care. They do seem to be able to dive deeper to them as an individual and what they are wanting and their desires. They are a little less medically minded and a little bit more open-minded. You are less likely to have interventions. You are less likely to have those things that cause trauma and that causes the cascade that leads to the Cesarean. I'm going to have all of the links but I'm just going to read this highlighted. It's a study from Europe actually. It says, “A recent qualitative study in Europe explored the maternity culture in high and low VBAC countries and found that–” I'm talking a lot about high and low countries. Sorry guys, I'm realizing I'm talking a lot about it but a lot of these studies differ. It says, “Clinicians in the high VBAC countries had a positive and pro-VBAC attitude which encouraged women to choose VBAC whereas the countries with low VBAC rate, clinicians held both pro and anti-VBAC views which negatively affected women who were seeking VBAC. Both of these studies have shown that having midwifery care can have a positive influence on VBAC rates with an increase in maternal and neonatal morbidity.”Right there, not only doing the research on your provider, but doing the research within your location, what their thoughts are, what their views are, what their high-VBAC attitude or low-VBAC attitude is. If they are coming at you, even these midwives you guys, and they have all of these stipulations, it might be a red flag. It might not be the right midwifery group for you. Julie: Absolutely. That's where the intuition comes in. I like what you said about the VBAC culture. You can tell at different hospitals. We have been to many, many hospitals in our area. Sorry, can you hear my blinkers? It's distracting. Let's see. I absolutely guarantee you that every hospital has a culture around VBAC. Some of them are positive and supportive and uplifting and some of them are fearful and fear-based and operate on a fact where they are going to be more likely to pull you toward a repeat C-section or other interventions. I encourage you to look into the culture of your hospital but not only hospitals too. I realize it's not just hospital-specific. It's also out-of-hospital midwives. They all have their culture around VBAC. Your out-of-hospital midwives and your in-hospital midwives, all of the midwives, your group whether you see a solo practice or a group OB practice or you see a group midwifery practice or whatever, there is a culture surrounding VBAC. You need to do yourself a favor and figure out what that culture is. I got to my appointment and I need to head in so I'm going to say goodbye really fast. I'm going to leave Meagan alone to wrap up the episode, but yes. My parting words are honoring your intuition, talk as much to your VBAC provider as you can and find out what the culture is surrounding that no matter who you choose to go with and also, do not automatically write off midwives. You are doing yourself a huge disservice if you are not considering a midwife for your care. It doesn't mean you have to go with one, but I feel like everybody should at least look into them. I love you guys! Bye!Meagan: Okay. And wrapping up you guys, I am just going to echo her. I think that completely discrediting midwives without even interviewing them at all is something that is a disservice to ourselves. I'm going to tell you that I did that. I did that. I didn't even consider it. I interviewed 12 providers, 12 providers which is crazy and I didn't interview one midwife. Not one. I was interviewing OBs and MFMs and I realize I don't remember interviewing a single midwife. The only thing I can think of is that I let the outside world lead me to believe that midwives were less qualified. Yale has an article and they say, “First-time mothers giving birth at medical centers where midwives were on their care team were 75% less likely to have their labor induced.” 74% less likely to have their labor induced, 74% less likely to receive Pitocin augmentation, and 12% less likely to deliver by Cesarean which is a big deal. I know most of us listening here are not first-time moms. We've had a Cesarean. Maybe we've had one, two, three, or maybe four, but the stats on midwives are there. It is there and it's something to not ignore so if you have not yet checked out midwives in your area, I highly encourage you to do so. Like Julie said, you don't even have to go with anybody, but at least interviewing them to know and feel the difference of care that you may be able to have is a big deal. I highly encourage you. I love you all. I'm so grateful for midwives. I'm so grateful for my midwife. My VBAC baby was with a midwife and I did have an OB. I was one of those who had an OB backup who could care for me and see me if I needed to. That for me made me feel more comfortable but it's also something that can get confusing. I think we've talked about where sometimes you will do dual care and you will have one person telling you one thing and the other provider telling you the other thing. That can get stressful and confusing so maybe stick with your provider. But do what's best for you. Again, another message. Don't just completely wipe out the idea of a midwife if you have midwives in your area as an option. It may be something that will just blow your mind. Thank you all so much for listening and hey, if you have a midwife who you suggest or you've gone through a VBAC with, we have our VBAC-supportive provider list and we would love for you to add to it. Go check out in the show notes or you can go over to our Instagram and click in our Linktree and we have got our provider list there for you. Or if you are looking for that midwife to interview, go check them out. We definitely love adding to this list and love referring it for everybody looking for a VBAC-supportive provider. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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