Podcast appearances and mentions of joel glanzberg

Human activity does not have to be destructive. It can be a harmonizing source of health & renewal. Regenerative Development asks us to imagine cities, towns, and villages that possess greater natural beauty, ecological health, and productive capacity. To align our built environment and human systems with natural systems. In this episode, we speak with Pamela Mang and Joel Glanzberg, two of the founding members of Regenesis. Together we explore the inner and outer work of Regenerative Development — a radically different way to think and act with the potential to transform the way humans inhabit the Earth. 

Sometimes I find myself inside a dialogue that deeply meets me where I am and lifts me up to a place with more clarity, more vitality, and more possibility. This episode with Pamela Mang was one of these. Pamela is long-term friend and colleague of past guests Carol Sanford, Joel Glanzberg, Ben Haggard, and Bill Reed. She has been working in the space of regenerative design, resourcing and development for many decades. Co-founder of Regenesis Group, she is co-author (with Ben) of the 2016 book Regenerative Design and Development. She is also part of the faculty that runs The Regenerative Practitioner (TRP) programme. In this dialogue Pamela helps me grok the tetrad of regenerative development that Regenesis works from in relation to my own work on Living Design Process. From this paper which in turn sourced it from Regenesis group. https://youtu.be/UJdnMghawTY Upcoming TRPs in NZ and AU Enrolments for the next Australian programme for TRP are open July 15th - August 19, 2022 and the programme commences on September 7th, 2022. Contact me if you'd like to be connected to Drika, Alana or Lara who are the AU co-hosts. Enrolments for the next New Zealand programme are open July 15th - August 13th and the programme commences on September 2nd, 2022. I am considering enrolling myself so I may see you on the course. Contact me if you'd like to be connected to Lucy-Mary who is the NZ liaison. Quotable Quotes Now for a few things Pamela said that I was moved to write down here: Design should be a vitalising process. It creates new vitality, new energies that can source different orders of health, different orders of understanding and so onPamela Mang Pamela Mang The secret about these frameworks is that they don't replace intuition. They hone itPamela Mang Living Design Process Find out more about the Living Design Process Pamela was resourcing me to look at through the tetrad framework here – the next online course of Living Design Process kicks off August 6th 2022 (why not complete before your TRP and make this a year of next-level learning!). Support the Making Permaculture Stronger Book Project This episode also marks the launch of a crowdfunding campaign to fund the creation of the Making Permaculture Stronger book – here's the video and here's a link to the campaign page. Support us and feel the good vibes that follow :-). https://youtu.be/1O8KY_Rb-2U

Episode 8- Sense of BelongingConversations with Joel Glanzberg who has vast experience as an applied naturalist to land and community development projects throughout the world. Through assessing, understanding, and communicating the inherent patterns present in natural systems, Joel helps clients identify principles and guidelines for appropriate and healthy development. Joel is skilled in cross-cultural communication and teaching specially in the fields of permaculture and ecological design. His research has focused on the application of traditional land use practices to the design of modern infra-structure.Enjoy current episodes while we prepare Season 2 with lots of storytelling!  Find @credko on Twitter.  See  alivepodcast.netThank you,Cristina Redko, PhDKey Sources:Regenesis Group - transforming the way humans inhabit the earth. Please see https://regenesisgroup.comRegenesis Institute for Regenerative Practice. Please see https://regenerat.esPattern Mind by Joel Glanzberg. Please see http://patternmind.orgThe Law of 3 was first introduced by  G.I. Gurdjieff, the Russian philosopher and founder of the philosophical school “The Fourth Way”.Archival birdsongs comes from the Macaulay Library at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. ML 140250 Black Hawk Gerrit VynML93737501 Blue Jay Jay McGowanSome sound effects were  obtained from Freesound.orgCrows  CC by InchadneySweet melodical guitar tune CC by 3, Valentin SosnitskivTruth in the Stones by Kevin MacLeod - (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 The Sky of our Ancestors by Kevin MacLeod - (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Theme music created by Tim Moor. Source: https://soundcloud.com/tymur-khakimovpod inboxSupport the show

Intermezzo 16 -  Weaving LifeIntermezzo is a short, light, entre'acte in between the Alive episodes. Joel Glanzberg also participated of Episode 8, Sense of Belonging. He has vast experience as an applied naturalist to land and community development projects throughout the world. Through assessing, understanding, and communicating the inherent patterns present in natural systems, Joel helps clients identify principles and guidelines for appropriate and healthy development.Enjoy current episodes while we prepare Season 2 with lots of storytelling!  Find @credko on Twitter.  See  alivepodcast.netThank you,Cristina Redko, PhDKey Sources:Regenesis Group - transforming the way humans inhabit the earth. Please see https://regenesisgroup.comRegenesis Institute for Regenerative Practice. Please see https://regenerat.esPattern Mind by Joel Glanzberg. Please see http://patternmind.orgThe Forest and the Trees by Kevin MacLeod - (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Old wooden loom CC by 3, by YleArkisto, sound effect from Freesound.orgTheme music created by Tim Moor. Source: https://soundcloud.com/tymur-khakimovSupport the show

Conversations with Joel Glanzberg who has vast experience as an applied naturalist to land and community development projects throughout the world.Through assessing, understanding, and communicating the inherent patterns present in natural systems, Joel helps clients identify principles and guidelines for appropriate and healthy development. Joel is skilled in cross-cultural communication and teaching specially in the fields of permaculture and ecological design. His research has focused on the application of traditional land use practices to the design of modern infra-structure.Enjoy current episodes while we prepare Season 2 with lots of storytelling!  Find @credko on Twitter.  See  alivepodcast.netThank you,Cristina Redko, PhDKey Sources:Regenesis Group - transforming the way humans inhabit the earth. Please see https://regenesisgroup.comRegenesis Institute for Regenerative Practice. Please see https://regenerat.esPattern Mind by Joel Glanzberg. Please see http://patternmind.orgThe Law of 3  was first introduced by  G.I. Gurdjieff, the Russian philosopher and founder of the philosophical school “The Fourth Way”.Archival birdsongs comes from the Macaulay Library at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology.ML 140250 Black Hawk Gerrit VynML93737501 Blue Jay Jay McGowanSome sound effects were  obtained from freesound.orgCrows  CC by InchadneySweet melodical guitar tune CC by 3, Valentin SosnitskivTruth in the Stones by Kevin MacLeod - (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 The Sky of our Ancestors by Kevin MacLeod - (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 Theme music created by Tim Moor. Source: https://soundcloud.com/tymur-khakimovpod inboxSupport the show

It is my delight to share this conversation with Joel Glanzberg today on Sense-making in a Changing World.Joel, based in New Mexico is a tracker, a regenerative design practitioner and permaculture teacher/builder/farmer/designer/thinker. He has been immersed in permaculture for over 30 years and loves what permaculture offers- particularly the way of seeing and being in the world from a pattern perspective, of bringing vitality and regeneration, and to cultivate a capacity to see the beauty of the world we are a part of - the beauty of life.Joel first took a permaculture design course in 1986 and studied with Bill Mollison too. Through many decades of deep connection with permaculture in many contexts - with First Nations communities, with education and design - Joel shares how his understanding and perception of permaculture has changed over the years and where he sees permaculture people offering their highest potential in the context of the world today.Joel is a founding partner of the Regenesis Group - a collective of regenerative design practitioners rethinking development - exploring regenerative development - transforming the way humans inhabit the earth. You can watch an introduction to their work here.Regenesis founded the Regenesis Institute and offer in-depth training around the world in regenerative thinking and practice through their The Regenerative Practitoner Series Joel was one of the founders and designers of Flowering Tree Permaculture in the high altitude desert of New Mexico and demonstrates here how it is possible to green the desert, transform arid landscapes into food forests. You can watch a short film here about it - a 30 year old example of how to reverse desertification, create conducive human habitats.You can find Joel at Pattern Mind and as he invites during this podcast, he is open to being contacted and to offer mentoring over zoom wherever you are in the world.LEARN PERMACULTUREThe world could really do with more regenerative permaculture practitioners, thinkers, [pr]activists, educators. youth mentors ... I invite you to join the Permaculture Educators Program with others from 6 continents - an interactive and comprehensive online course aimed to support people to weave this work into their life and livelihood. The program includes a full Permaculture Design Certificate, the only online Permaculture Teacher Certificate, eco-business modules + design studios, film club, meet-ups, mentoring, and an active online community.Please also consider supporting free permaculture education for young people in refugee camps - donate to Ethos Foundation - our registered charity. We pass on 100% of your donation.We also invite young people everywhere to join the Global Permayouth Festivals each month and weekly meet-ups - for young people aged 11-18 (ish).Warm regards,Morag GambleI acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the land on which I live, play and work - the Gubbi Gubbi people - and pay my respects to their elders past present and emerging.Thank you to Rhiannon Gamble for sound editing and Kim Kirkman for the music.

Joel Glanzberg speaks with Joanna about: the origin of Regenesis, regenerative planning and development; becoming conscious together of the place where we live; giving back the love and freedom of a childhood in the woods; a life-changing reading of a spiritual vision; belonging to a living and sacred landscape; “Pattern Mind”, a forthcoming book about living in alignment with the patterns of Nature; living in a world of invisible layers; overcoming our shame and remembering our original instructions; the care that unites us; the ancestral use of disruption to develop more complex ecosystems; how do we learn from a virus…?. The post Pattern Mind appeared first on Future Primitive Podcasts.

I'm sure you'll enjoy this rich, deep yet lively second conversation with Jason Gerhardt (first chat was here). Jason directs the USA's Permaculture Institute and Real Earth Design. As it turns out we continue exploring the ordering framework I introduced in Episode 24. Here's the framework diagram, slightly updated thanks to a suggestion from Bill Reed. Or download as pdf here. Oh yeah I also mention this recent recreate of Making Permaculture Stronger's purpose that Joel Glanzberg helped me with and that uses the pattern I explored with Bill Reed here: MPS inspires creative exploration and dialogue around permaculture design in a way that develops our ability to think and act creatively as and with community to effect the large scale systemic change we need. Oh yeah Jason mention this amazing white paper on the four levels of Regenerative Agriculture by Ethan Roland Soloviev & Gregory Landua. I can't believe I haven't read this yet. Do check it out if you've not seen it and leave a comment telling me what you make of it. I also mentioned the Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow.

I'm excited to share here the beginnings of a (Carol Sanford inspired) framework in my second conversation with perma-powerhouse Meg McGowan (the first was here). It is a framework I feel is going to inform much of Making Permaculture Stronger's evolution moving forward. Here is a preliminary sketch laying it out as a starting point to crash test and improve together (or download as pdf file here). Huge thanks to Meg for taking the time to help me share and start developing it. Oh yes in this episode I also share my brand new project Designing for Life that will be developing in conversation with Making Permaculture Stronger moving forward. Exciting times my friends, exciting times! Visit Meg's blog here, the interview on the other podcast she mentioned here (episode three), her pyramid of wisdom here (note: compare with this). You can also go listen to the mentioned chats with Carol Sanford and Joel Glanzberg and Bill Reed by clicking on their names (where you'll find further links to their sites and work). Finally, if you would consider supporting Making Permaculture Stronger financially, then visit our support page and mega-thanks in advance for what you are making possible in terms of supporting and fast-tracking the evolution of permaculture's wildly exciting potential in the world.

Hey all. In this episode I share my second conversation with Bill Reed from Regenesis Group and the Regenerative Practitioner Seminar (our first chat is here). It is a conversation I highly recommend in which we look in detail at several aspects of how the rubber hits the road in the regenerative development or living systems approach Bill works with. I also get a bunch of things off my chest at the start around bumping this whole conversation up a notch and inviting your input into where and how Making Permaculture Stronger evolves from here. Hope to hear from you (whether via a few bucks via our patreon page and/or your reflections and suggestions in the comments below or through the contact page). I have to say all this focus on the likes of Bill and Joel Glanzberg and Carol Sanford is starting to rub off on me. I have noticed that the language I use is on the move, the thoughts I think are on the move, and even my entire understanding of what the heck Making Permaculture Stronger is and could be about are on the move! Heed this warning my friends: these people are dangerous radicals who consciously mess with minds. As Bill says, they see what they do as a mental technology that is intended to frustrate and destabilise you out of your automatic patterns. Bill mentions this article by Jonah Lehrer in the New Yorker, I mention possibility management, and you can find out more about Regenesis Group here and Carol Sanford here. Example Purpose Statements including Function, Being, and Will As promised, here are the function, being, and will based purpose statements Bill shared: The Yestermorrow design / build school's purpose is to learn together through shared inquiry and hand-on experience the ways of making human habitat... (function)...in a way that expands our understanding of who we are and how to live in beneficial interrelationship with the earth and each other... (being)...so that we all can thrive in a world with limited resources and unlimited potential (will) and I’m going to take raw ingredients and transform them into a meal for my family… (function)…in a way that we sit down with our children and share our love for each other, or at least our daily events around the table… (being)…so that our children have the psychological wellbeing and nourishment to grow into responsible adults (will) As a recap the function aspect is about what are we doing and transforming? The being aspect is how do we want to be and what do we need to become to do this? Or as Joel Glanzberg has put it to me, what are the capacities to Be you are aiming to develop during this task? The will aspect is what is the larger field we wish to shift or positively impact? As Bill put it this is like asking what is the purpose of the purpose? Keep in mind also, if you can handle it at this stage (I barely can!) that Bill talked about paying attention to the so called three lines of work at function, then again at being, then again at will. The three lines of work are the immediate whole you are working with (might be you, or your school garden), the proximate whole (might be your team, or the school community) and the greater whole that you envisage being able to positively impact through your work (might be the farm, or the community the school is nested within). Here's a preliminary attempt I made at an upgraded purpose statement for Making Permaculture Stronger:55 Making Permaculture Stronger exists to hold a unique space for intelligent, collegial, and rigorous inquiry and dialogue into the subject of permaculture design process... (function)...in a way that respectfully honors permaculture’s incredible depth and value and openly explores ways its potential might be more fully and rapidly developed... (being)...so that it continues to thrive, grow and evolve in its ability to contribute positively to humanity and the earth (will) After some reflections on this from Joel Glanzberg (thanks Joel!),

Jascha Rohr, Oldenberg, Germany, July 19, 2019 In this episode (recorded July 19) Jascha Rohr returns to catch us up on his recent, current and upcoming adventures in taking healthy generative process and applying it to cocreating new modes of global governance! Check out the Cocreation Foundation here, our last chat here, and Jascha and Sonia's amazing article on their field process model here. You can sign up to the Cocreation Foundation's e-newsletter here and check out their youtube channel here. In this clip Jascha fleshes out something we discussed during our chat: https://youtu.be/lAzsc3S7Am8 Jascha also shared a white paper for the Cocreation Foundation's Global Resonance Project you can download as a pdf and read here or by clicking the image below. Here is a link to the book by Hanzi Freinacht's book The Listening Society that Jasha mentioned. Oh yes, I make mention in the chat of a few complementary approaches that have been rocking my world lately, namely the work of Carol Sanford (who I interviewed here), Regenesis group (which includes Joel Glanzberg and Bill Reed) along with Possibility Management (created by Clinton Callahan who I interviewed here). Enjoy and catch up with you in episode 22.

Photo by Peter Casamento On June 28th, 2019, I recorded this chat with my friend Bill Reed from Regenesis Group. A close colleague of my last two guests Carol Sanford and Joel Glanzberg, Bill is an internationally recognised practitioner, lecturer, and leading authority in sustainability and regenerative planning, design and implementation. You can see a short bio for Bill here (or listen to me read it out in the intro). Thanks to Bill for passing on the below resources and I will record a second chat with him soon to continue tracking down the intriguing and, well, kinda deep body of work he, Carol and Joel all represent. Articles Click to download as pdf these articles either by or about Bill's work: Regenerative Development and Design – Working with the Whole Designing from Place - A Regenerative Framework and MethodologySustainability to RegenerationThe Nature of PositiveThree Case StudiesUSGBCMagazine_03-2018 Videos Knock yourself out! https://vimeo.com/album/4650028 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFzEI1rZG_U https://vimeo.com/224956617 https://vimeo.com/120837455 https://soundcloud.com/akasa-daka/bill-and-joel-on-the-birth-of-the-regenesis-group/s-sQ3R0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFoKbM9ikY Education Find out more about The Regenerative Practitioner training here.

Joel Glanzberg - the sequel I was fully stoked to have this second chat with Joel Glanzberg where we continue exploring his journey with living systems thinking and working within a regenerative paradigm (after first talking in episode twelve). Same topic yet very different energy as the previous episode with Joel's long-term colleague Carol Sanford. As we discuss Joel is heading to Melbourne in July 2019, where in addition to running some Regenerative Practitioner training he'll be giving a free talk July 17 and a one-day workshop on Regenerating Place July 27 - both in Brunswick, Melbourne. He'll also be tagging along with me to some of my current projects so I look forward to reporting back on those adventures and conversations in due course :-). Check out Regenisis Group here, the Regenerative Practitioner training here, and Joel's personal site Pattern Mind here. Here is the full text from Joel's open letter to the permaculture movement (please share any thoughts you have about this or the episode in a comment - I always so appreciate hearing how this stuff is landing out there): First of all, I want to thank you, not only for your good efforts, time, and energy but for your caring…your caring not only for this living earth but for the people and the beauty of life. Thank you.Many of you may know of my work from the example of Flowering Tree in Toby Hemenway’s excellent book Gaia’s Garden and the video 30 Years of Greening the Desert, others from my regenerative community development work with Regenesis. In any case I know that you share my concerns for the degrading condition of the ecological and human communities of our biosphere and I am writing to you to ask for your help.We are at a crisis point, a crossroads and if we are to turn the corner we need to use everything at our disposal to its greatest effect. My concern is that we are not using the very powerful perspective of permaculture to its greatest potential and that we need to up our game. We know that the living world is calling for this from us.I often feel that permaculture design is like a fine Japanese chisel that is mostly used like a garden trowel, for transplanting seedlings. It can of course be used for this purpose, but is certainly not its highest use.Permaculture Design has often been compared to a martial art such as Aikido because at its heart it is about observing the forces at play to find the “least change for the greatest effect”; a small move that changes entire systems. This is how nature works and is precisely the sort of shortcut we desperately need.The lowest level of any martial art is learning to take a hit well. Yet this is where so much of our energy seems to be directed: setting ourselves and our communities up to be resilient in the face of the impacts of climate change and the breakdown of current food, water, energy, and financial systems.The next level is to avoid the blow, either through dodging, blocking or redirecting it. Much of the carbon farming and other efforts directed toward pulling carbon out of the atmosphere and developing non-carbon sources of energy fall into this category.At their highest expression practitioners track patterns to their source, shifting them before they take form, redirecting them in regenerative directions. This is what is behind principles like “obtain a yield” or “the problem is the solution” and the reason for protracted and thoughtful observation. We learn to read energies and to find the acupuncture-like inoculation or disturbance that changes the manifestation by changing the underlying pattern. Problems are turned into solutions and provide us with yields if we can stop trying to stop or block them. This is the pattern of Regeneration.Every permaculture technique is a small disturbance that shifts the underlying pattern and hence the system. Water-harvesting structures, rotational grazing, chicken tractors, mulching, spreading seed-balls,

The creation of this episode was an incredible experience. Carol is shockingly sharp, disruptive beyond belief, and an absolute thrill to be in a conversation with. This episode is dripping with rich insights into regenerative and living systems thinking and I know you're going to love it. Here is Carol's personal website. Here is an article Carol wrote about potential that has informed the future direction of Making Permaculture Stronger. Here is a link to a page with info about Carol's books. Her latest book is called The Regenerative Human and will be released March 2020. She asked me to mention that she is still looking for people to be involved in the action-learning project she discussed in our chat. See the details of being involved in this here. Here's is Carol's podcast Business Second Opinion. This episode goes through Seven Principles of Regeneration and is is well worth a listen. Here are the Deep Pacific online workshops. Carol asked me to "Let your listeners know they are welcome. All recorded. No beginning or end. You begin when you Step on the Mat, like I learned in Aikido, and practice with all levels of experience." I (Dan) am signing up so maybe I'll see you there. Here is Regenesis Group that was mentioned. For the interest of folk in the vicinity of Victoria, Australia, Regenesis member Joel Glanzberg will be running a one-day workshop on Regenerative Design in Melbourne July 2019. Finally, here's the conversation as a video: https://youtu.be/ENzPrjNrZV8

In this episode I speak with permaculture elder Joel Glanzberg from Pattern Mind, Regenesis Group and the Tracking Project. Early in the conversation, Joel refers to his 30 Years Greening the Desert project which you can learn about in this clip:  We also refer to Joel's Open Letter and Plea to the Permaculture Movement. Here is a more recent article in which Joel writes beautifully about the necessary transformation toward life at a world-view level. Here's a poignant excerpt: Holding my baby son one night as he slept, I thought about how I would make his body. Having built things all my life, this seemed simple. I would begin by framing him up, joining his bones together using his muscles, tendons and ligaments. Then I’d run his arteries and veins, his nervous system, install all of his organs, sheath him in skin, fill him with blood, a bit of food and water and start him up, maybe with a spark from jumper cables. Of course he was made nothing like this, but this Frankensteinian thought experiment revealed my own mind’s mechanicalness and the difference between how we think about and make things and how the living world creates. Everything we make is conceived and constructed before it begins to carry out the processes for which it was designed. Our cars, homes, businesses, schools, programs are all structured before they run. Like my son’s body—all of our bodies for that matter—all living structures are built by doing what they have been created to do. His body was made by metabolizing nutrients, water and oxygen and moving around, just as it is today. The river was not dug and then filled with water. The river running made the river. The branching scaffold of the tree was not built before it carried water and nutrients up into the sky and sugars back down into the roots. The tree built its body by adding layer after layer of carbon taken from the sky through photosynthesizing, from the moment it put out leaves into the air and roots into the earth. Finally, and with particular relevance to some of the places Making Permaculture Stronger will soon be heading as a project, I recommend watching this too, where Joel speaks alongside several of his colleagues at Regenesis Group: 

In this episode I speak with permaculture elder Joel Glanzberg from Pattern Mind, Regenesis Group and the Tracking Project. Early in the conversation, Joel refers to his 30 Years Greening the Desert project which you can learn about in this clip:  We also refer to Joel's Open Letter and Plea to the Permaculture Movement. Here is a more recent article in which Joel writes beautifully about the necessary transformation toward life at a world-view level. Here's a poignant excerpt: Holding my baby son one night as he slept, I thought about how I would make his body. Having built things all my life, this seemed simple. I would begin by framing him up, joining his bones together using his muscles, tendons and ligaments. Then I'd run his arteries and veins, his nervous system, install all of his organs, sheath him in skin, fill him with blood, a bit of food and water and start him up, maybe with a spark from jumper cables. Of course he was made nothing like this, but this Frankensteinian thought experiment revealed my own mind's mechanicalness and the difference between how we think about and make things and how the living world creates. Everything we make is conceived and constructed before it begins to carry out the processes for which it was designed. Our cars, homes, businesses, schools, programs are all structured before they run. Like my son's body—all of our bodies for that matter—all living structures are built by doing what they have been created to do. His body was made by metabolizing nutrients, water and oxygen and moving around, just as it is today. The river was not dug and then filled with water. The river running made the river. The branching scaffold of the tree was not built before it carried water and nutrients up into the sky and sugars back down into the roots. The tree built its body by adding layer after layer of carbon taken from the sky through photosynthesizing, from the moment it put out leaves into the air and roots into the earth. Finally, and with particular relevance to some of the places Making Permaculture Stronger will soon be heading as a project, I recommend watching this too, where Joel speaks alongside several of his colleagues at Regenesis Group: 

Donate to The Permaculture Podcast Online: via PayPal Venmo: @permaculturepodcast This episode is Joel Glanzberg's opening remarks recorded live at the Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence. He shares with us his observations from 30 years practicing permaculutre, rooted in the earliest days when Bill Mollison still taught in United States. Along the way Joel shares with us his personal successes and failures, while keeping a focus on how we can use the teachings of permaculture to view the world through a lens that focuses on the patterns that lead to ever greater, intentional, design with biological systems in mind. You learn more about him and his work by visiting PatternMind.org or .com. While you are there you can also view his video 30 Years of Greening the Desert. In the notes below you'll find a transcript of Joel's talk. This is something I'd like to include in every episode of the show and to help that along have updated the Patreon page for the show to reflect that. We're over halfway to the goal of transcripts for every future episode so sign up today and help us reach that milestone! What I like about this conversation with Joel is how he continued to return to the power of biological forces in our systems. From Schrodinger's quote about neg-entropy to how he might build his son, to repairing cracks in a system, life begets life. The more we spend time designing with life in mind the more regenerative our systems become. The more they allow us to design ourselves out of the work. Even with what I'm doing here with the podcast, right now technology is how the stories are told, but over time and with the creation of new traditions, we can train new storytellers who collect and share the tales of others, to spread words and voices from mouth to ear in a perpetual way that isn't replaced with something, but by someone. Oh what a beautiful world it will be. How do patterns impact your work? Did you learn something new from what Joel shared? I'd love to hear from you. Email: Write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast From here, the next episode is a permabyte about my experiences with Venom Immunotherapy, and after that is a follow up conversation with Joshua Cubista recorded by David Bilbrey. Until then, spend each day looking for the patterns that lead to the world you want to live in while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other. Resources PatternMind.org - Joel's website Gregory Bateson (Wiki) Transcript Joel Glanzberg: Good morning. It's really wonderful for me to see all of you. As Scott was intimating I've been doing this for about thirty years, and thirty years ago there were no college programs, there were like three books, there were like sixty of us throughout the country. So to see all of your faces and all the work you guys are doing, it just makes me very grateful and so I want to thank you not only for being here, but for caring and all the work that you do. There's been a lot of discussion in the permaculture community about trying to certify people, create all of these various structures and ways of insuring that we don't lose all the things that were brought to permaculture from the beginning and throughout the years. Cause as you all know if you've ever played whisper down the lane, where if I were to whisper something in your ear and then you were to whisper it in her ear and it went all the way around by the time it came out to Scott it would be something completely different. So this model we have of teaching and then teachers teaching and teachers teaching, there are a lot of things that get added and there's also sometimes things that gets lost and missed. I had the opportunity to go and teach in Africa before the International Convergence there a number of years ago and all the social, economic, legal stuff, what we call the Invisible Structures had largely been dropped, right, partly because feeding people is so important and also simply because people run out of time. So one of the things I've really been interested in all along is the pattern aspect of things, and why patterns are important. If you help me out here for a minute, just close your eyes for a second, and watch your breath for a moment. Take two, three deep breaths. Watch yourself inhale and exhale. And maybe you can even feel your heart beating at the same time. So that is actually you living. As your diaphragm goes down and the atmosphere rushes into your lungs spreads out through the branching bronchi of your lungs so there's that large surface to volume and then that air goes into those little blood cells and those tiny little one cell-wide capillaries and goes branching through your whole circulatory system to every cell in your body, to every other little capillary so that it can drop off its oxygen and pick up carbon dioxide and go back to your lungs and go back out into the atmosphere. That is life. So because permaculture, we talk about as permaculture design and we think mostly about designing structures. Right? But, these structures aren't living, right? So, life is exchange. The moment you stop exchanging the atmosphere, you stop exchanging with the water and the food that jumps up out of the earth and into your mouth, you will stop living. Everything that is alive, these trees are here to exchange between the atmosphere and the earth. Taking sunlight turning into sugar, taking that down into the ground, building their bodies out of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, taking the water and mineral and nutrients out of the soil and putting it up into the air to seed the clouds to create the rain. Everything that's alive is creating exchange. You all know the general model, right, that pattern of exchange that we talk about in permaculture? That's important because life is exchange and that's the pattern of every exchange. So, I have three beautiful little children, and when my son, who is now 5, was a little boy, I was holding him while he slept. And he taught me a lot about life and design. And while I was holding him, I thought about how I would build his beautiful body. I've built stuff my whole life. Of course what I would do is build his structure first. I'd put all of his bones together with muscles and tendons and ligaments and then I would run his circulatory system and his nervous system and I'd install all his organs, hook em up, sheath him in skin, fill him with blood, water and food and start him up. And this is how we design and build everything that we make. We design it, we put it together, and it operated, whether it's a building, an organization, a curriculum, or a car. But nothing living is created in that way. His body was built by his body metabolising. The river was made by the water flowing. The tree was made by taking in sunlight and carbon dioxide and moving nutrients and water. So how do we as permaculture designers who are more interested in biology than in physics, that's the shift that permaculture makes. It's saying, sure, all the laws of physics hold true, and harnessing them we can be incredibly powerful. We can change landscapes, but this is a living reality that we are blessed with. If we understand how biology works, and as living beings imitate how biology works we'll come out with very different worlds. Very different effects. So how do we design processes instead of structures. Because life is processes of exchange. An example that I love from Haiti. After the earthquake they built a teaching hospital. And one of the things that was striking to me is that it was a pretty cool design, it was passive solar and they catch the water and all those good things. But they designed the process differently. So they hired Haitian workers to build it and they got to all these technical things they didn't have the skills to do: the electrical and the gas and the computer stuff and finishes and all the rest. They brought in union workers from the States, but every union worker had two apprentices so by the time the hospital was built they had people trained to build the next hospital as well as to maintain that one. We all know that one of the problems with so much of the aid that's given to the third world, right, is that it pretty soon it breaks down and people don't have the knowledge or spare parts to fix it and how to use it. So, the structural design of the building was the same. You wouldn't see anything different on the blueprints, but by redesigning the process for creating it you created all kinds of various things in the community. So this was really brought home to me a few years ago. I should probably have said this, not only have I been doing this for thirty years, my demonstration site Flowering Tree is one of the main examples in Gaia's Garden, Toby's first book, and I did a video of it a couple years that you can see at Pattern Mind. It's called Thirty Years Greening the Desert. When I was making that video I zoomed in on Google Earth. You can see the dry Southwest, dry Southwest, and here's this beautiful three-quarters of an acre food forest that's thirty years old. Full covered canopy, five stories, and I was really impressed with myself. And then in the middle of the night I woke up and I realized that it was a green island was a measure of my failure, because I was not aiming to create a demonstration site I was aiming to change how people lived in the place and if I had been successful it would have disappeared in a sea of food forest like the first tree in a forest. Or the first blade of grass in a meadow. But I hadn't designed the process to enable it, or to insure that it changed the larger system. And it made me realize I would rather just stay home with my family and play with my plants and make things, but we all know that we're in pretty dire circumstances on the planet as a culture, as a race, as a species and that what we learn in the garden, what we learn in the forest is how living systems function and the true power of permaculture is that everything on the planet is a living system whether it is an organism or an organization, an ecosystem or an economic system, all living systems follow the same pattern. And so our learnings in our gardens, our nice little sandboxes where we get to play with living systems and learn from them we can take those learnings and use them to shift all these other living systems that are in such dire need of shifting. Whether it is education or business or governance or large water systems. Whatever it is. And part of what I realized is why I tell that story about my son, is I am so focused on the stuff of the world, when the world is relationships and exchanges. At least the living world is the exchanges between us. It's the processes. And every structure is entropic. As soon as the structure was built it begins to fall apart. As soon as you drive your car off the lot it is worth less money because it falls apart. You gotta fix it, you gotta fix it, you gotta fix it. But my son's body, just like all of our bodies and all of these other living things bodies, get better and better, and better. They develop. There's a wonderful little book called What is Life by the physicist Shroedinger. You might of heard of his cat. And he said that life is neg-entropy. It is a counter entropic force. Systems become more developed and more complex. The trees grow up. The deer graze in the lowlands and they go up to the highlands to fertilize so it can all wash down again. The salmon spawn up in the uplands, go out to the sea, used to get as big as hogs, swim back up so they could take all those nutrients from the ocean and put them back at the highest point in the watershed to be spread out to fertilize the forest by people, and eagles and bears and wolves and all the rest. One of the problems with how we've been working as human beings is because we are so focused on structures including legal structures, economic structures, governance structures that are brittle and will fall apart. That is what is killing the world. That's because we are focused on dead things instead of focusing on patterns of processes to regenerate things. You guys all know the old Bill Mollison Permaculture Principles of the problem is the solution and the least change for the greatest effect. You guys all know those principles? And so, the way I came into permacutlure initially was I read The One-Straw Revolution by Fukuoka and his main things are, you know he had a near death experience, he had this sort of enlightenment experience after he had kind of collapsed in his life, and it changed how he thought and saw the world. And he said the most important thing was he asked different questions. Do you know what those questions were. Audience Member: “What don't I have to do?” JG: He said instead of asking, "What can I do?" I began to ask, "What can I stop doing? What can I not do," so he stopped weeding, he stopped fertilizing, and he stopped mostly watering, and he stopped doing all the things pretty much that we think that you need to do in agriculture. He called it Not Doing Farming. In chinese the phrase is Wu Wei, Not Doing. And that's the basis of permaculture. It's why we talk about Work is Pollution. Any needs that are not provided for any element of the system by the system is work we need to do and the unused resources is pollution. So we're trying to get away from working. So what is Fukuoka most known for? Seed balls and mulch. So even the man who developed Not Doing Farming is known for the little bits of doing he did. And it's one of the things that I think is the most important bit of permaculture. We're so focused on all the permaculture ways of doing. Mulching and sheet mulching and making swales and hugelkultur and aquaculture and, you know all this doing, when the whole point is to find that least change for the greatest effect. What is the appropriate acupuncture point where we can do a little thing that shifts the whole system. Do you all know who Terry Dobson was? Terry Dobson was a martial artist. He was the first American student of Ueshiba who started Aikido in Japan and he tells this story. Ueshiba was about this big, little guy, and Terry Dobson was this like 6' 4" 250lb American guy and he had been studying with Ueshiba for like three years, 22 years old, and Ueshiba kept saying you will not fight. You see tough guys on the street, go to the other side of the street. Someone tries to start a fight with you, don't fight with him. Terry Dobson was wanting to show his stuff and he was on the train going home one day and a drunk guy got on the train covered in vomit and shoved a pregnant lady down in the seat and is pushing people around and Terry is like, "This is it. Ueshiba can't say nothing. This is righteous." And he gets up and the guy sees him and yells at him and comes running, “YAAAAA!” and they hear this little voice say, "Hey" and there's this nicely dressed elderly Japanese man. He says, "Hey, do you like to drink?" The drunk man, "What's it to you?" "Well, you know, my wife and I have this lovely plum tree out back and we like to sit underneath it and drink sake and i thought you might have a lovely home and a lovely wife." "Oooohhhhh. My wife died and I lost my job. I lost my house. I'm poor and everything is terrible." Pretty soon it's Terry Dobson's stop and he gets off and the drunk guy is sitting with his head in the lap of the elderly man whose petting his head and speaking to him. Terry Dobson realized he'd learned the forms of Aikido and he had missed the patterns behind them. And so this elderly man had not been fooled by the surface presentation, the symptom of the drunk man being violent. He had seen behind to the pattern and had seen it to its source. And by a few words he got that to come out. What would have happened if Terry beat him up? Would it have made anything better? Probably would have made it worse. By seeing to that source and breaking that surface structure that man began the regeneration, hopefully, of that drunk human being whose one of our, part of our, community. And so that to me is what permaculture is all about. It's what tracking about. How do we see the patterns behind things to see the little changes that changes the pattern that creates a different presentation. Instead of trying to solve symptoms without solving the patterns behind them that are presenting as those symptoms, we're going to spend our lives putting out fires. And so to me that's the great value, the great blessing of having worked with plants and living communities so much is that we learn how living systems really work instead of our ideas of them. And so the main thing that I would like to ask of all of you is please always be asking yourself, "Am I working on a symptom? Am I trying to put out fires or put a bandaid on a problem?" When the problem is the solution. In structures, cracks are a problem. It's why we fix our oil pan, it's why we fix the leaks in our roof. We fix all these cracks. In living systems cracks are the opening to the next level. When a chick is in the egg and it runs out of food and room it doesn't go shopping and add an addition. It breaks the shell. And it enters a new world. And for a while its parents feed it until she and her siblings outgrow the nest and their parents ability to feed them, then they fledge and enter a new level of reality. So, reality is layered. Even here. Talk about it in the food forest. There are the plants under the ground the rooted ones, there's the ones on the surface, there's the trees and the understory and the shrubs and the vines. Here in the landscape there is the river and the semi-aquatic and the lowlands and the slopes and the uplands. Reality is layered and you all know this Einstein quote, Problems cannot be solved with the same level of thinking that created them. That's how nature solves her problems is by using them as opportunities and openings to evolve. We were talking last night about the wonderful work of Kat Anderson and all the people who have been looking at the chestnut / oak forest of this region. So you probably know when Europeans came here twenty percent of the forest were chestnuts. Another majority was oak and pecan and hickory and black walnuts and all these nut trees and fruit trees and shrubs. Let me backup a second, do you all know what ecological succession is? So it's a primary pattern in all living systems. You have bare soil. First thing that comes in is annual weeds or before that maybe lichens and mosses. Then after the weeds you start to get the grasses and then you start to get shrubs and pioneer trees and sub-climax and eventually you get to a climax hardwood forest system. You can even see succession occurring here. We're starting to get the grasses here and the shrubs underneath and eventually up to the trees. For a very long time we had this very hierarchical idea that climax was where everything was headed. It's the king. But what we found is that actually sub-climax is much more diverse and productive and it turns out that climax here is something like beech / maple, which are very thin barked. They don't produce so much and they don't feed so many other animals as all the nut trees. One of the things the native people saw was, oh, if I burn a beech / maple forest that is very thin barked I'm going to kill them off. I'm going to buffer the PH of the soil and I'm going to encourage all the nut trees that are going to feed the deer and the bears and the turkeys. Oh, and it's also going to buffer the PH of the water which are going to enable all the oysters to make the shells better. In the Chesapeake there were enough oysters to filter the bay in a day or two. One of the things the native peoples discovered was by doing cool burns, not canopy burns that take everything out, but cool burns, they are going to take out the sticks and the underbrush so you can stalk and hunt better. You can see people coming if you have to worry about that. You're going to create the trees that are going to feed you and feed the animals you're going to eat from. You are going to buffer the soils. You are going to buffer the PH of the waters. You are going to encourage the shellfish that you go and harvest and eat every summer. Oh, and guess what? Take out the ticks. And the fleas. And also all the weevils that are going to eat your nuts. The least change for the greatest effect. One of the problems with human beings is that most everything we do creates ecological disturbance. Put that driveway in we tore up a bunch of plants. To plow a field and grow our food we do a lot of disturbance. The problem is that we're not designing the disturbance. Throughout the world human beings being very intelligent figured out how they could use small disturbances to shift ecological succession to the most productive levels. That's what happened to Terry Dobson on that train. His structured idea of reality got disturbed by this experience. That's what happened to Fukuoka when he almost died. So our minds are ecological systems. They are living systems. Our communities are ecological systems. Our economic systems are ecological living systems and they follow the same stages of succession. You have a poor neighborhood and there's maybe a lot of crime and there's people from all over the world there and that's where people maybe are using drugs or whatever. That's where the artists move in because they can afford it. It's really cool and interesting and a little on the edge and creative things happen and then it becomes a little bit more established and it becomes where you have the yuppie wine bars and coffee shops and galleries. And then pretty soon it becomes gentrified and the art is really boring and everybody has to move out and you move to a climax ecosystem. And something has to come in, in to disturb it so it can become more creative and interesting again. It doesn't matter what the system is, it follows this pattern of succession. Every living thing, because life is so unstable, tries to move towards stability. But if we go for the stability of concrete there cannot be the exchanges that are necessary for living. To my mind what I would like to invite you all into is to learn to see behind what you see. See the patterns behind it. And you're not aware of this, but every time you read something, what are you seeing? You are seeing the movements of someone's mind. There are tracks on the page, but you are seeing behind that to patterns of processes. Patterns of thoughts. Patterns of ideas. You might even be seeing people doing things. It's just like a tracker. It's not to say deer, deer, deer. It's to see that animal moving to the clearing and pausing and turning its head and looking and going on. So lets see everything as a track so we can see the patterns of processes so we can find that acupuncture point. That little pebble we can drop into the pond to create those waves of change that we know we need because we don't have a lot of time. We don't have a lot of energy. There's not that many of us. We have to make sure that what we do is effective. This talk is meant to be a pebble dropped into a pond. This event is meant to be a small event that can have all these rippling effects. When we have a conversation, we're selling people plants, how do we use that as an opportunity to shift how people are thinking about things. When we write things. When we're implementing something how do we make that an educational experience for the community. How do we make that create jobs and businesses in the community? I was talking to Dale and he mentioned this Gregory Bateson story about the New College in Oxford. And the New College was started about the 1600s and there's a great big dining hall. 50-60 feet long and there were great big oak beams in it. And the maintenance man was up there because he saw some sawdust and he dug around in the beam with a knife and found it was riddle with beetles. He went to the next one and the next one and the next one and he was like, "Where are we going to find oak trees to replace these two foot square beams 60 foot long. They looked and looked and eventually the board called in the forester because they had forest land. The forester said, “Oh, I was wondering when you were going to ask about them oaks.” “What are you talking about?” “Oh, everybody knows oak beams get beetly in 500 years so when they built this college they planted the oaks and every forester told the next forester, don't you cut those oaks. Those are for the dining hall.” Gregory Bateson says that's the way you design a society. So what if before we designed the building we design the forest to provide the wood. And we design how we're going to produce the concrete. And we design how we're going to get the metal or recycle the metal so we're looking at the whole process instead of just this little blip in it. And every time we're doing something is an opportunity to begin to work on that. Please, if you are interested check out PatternMind.com or .org I think there's some interesting stuff on there. If you would please, hold up your fist. So, I've had the opportunity for fifteen years now to help co-teach a native american permaculture course in New Mexico where we've had people from all over the continent come. And we were in the Jicarilla pueblo and this old man had us all do this. And he said, "Hold up your fist. Look at the ridge of your knuckles. It goes up and down, up and down. Just like the mountain. Just like the river goes back and forth. Look at the edge of your fist. It spirals. Just like the water behind a rock where the trout stays. No square people here. We're all round." And his point was, if we keep telling ourselves the story that human beings are the problem, the bad part that needs to be repaired, replaced, or eliminated, which is how you fix structures, we can't help but destroy things. If you tell a little kid, "You're bad" they are going to be bad. If we tell one another we belong here, the creator placed us here for a reason to play a particular role and we have gotten confused about what our role is to use this incredible consciousness and awareness we were given. So if we could use this consciousness to track patterns. To find the least change for the greatest effect. To be designers of disturbance so we're actually focusing on designing the disturbance instead of designing the structure then we can be a blessing for the world We can actually be essential portions of all these living systems that we love so dearly. To hear the crickets and see the green leaves and the light through the leaves. All this beauty. Eat the food that comes from these plants. To feel alive is such a blessing. We only want to give back. For me, that's what permaculture is all about. It's not all the techniques, but how can I learn from those techniques to repattern and to find those least changes for the greatest effect.

Donate to The Permaculture Podcast Online: via PayPal Venmo: @permaculturepodcast (About the picture: The grainery at Salamander Springs Farm is the first structure one encounters on arriving up the steep, mountain lane. This building, still new when the first round table was recorded in August 2015, stands ready for the opening of another season on the farm.) Today's interview is a round table recorded in Clear Creek in Mid-April, 2016. The participants in the conversation include Jereme Zimmerman, author of Make Mead Like a Viking, “Ziggy” Liloia of The Year of Mud, Eric Puro and Michael Beck of The POOSH, and Susana Lein of Salamander Springs Farm. This is the first of two pieces from that evening. Today's ends as Susana and I had to leave, her to a birthday party and for me to carry on a tradition of reading bedtime stories to my children each night, even when I'm on the road. In the next episode, you'll hear Eric Puro behind the microphone as the guest host leading the conversation. I haven't listened to it yet, so have no idea what's in there. What I do know, is that in the panel discussion today, we talk about mead and mead making, natural building, permaculture farming. Throughout you'll hear about the importance of having community and people to share your work, knowledge, and experiences with. Together, we create more than we do alone. If after listening to this interview there is any way I can help you on your journey, to do what it is that inspires you, whether to take the first step forward or to arrive at a destination, get in touch. The phone number is and the email address is . If digital means are not your preferred way to reach me, you can also drop something in the mail. That address is: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast From here, coming up is the Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence outside of Charles Town, West Virginia, at The Riverside Project. The keynote speaker for this day is Michael Judd, talking about his experiences as a permaculture practitioner, with opening remarks by Joel Glanzberg. Classes and workshops are scheduled on Living in the Gift, Animals in Permaculture, Broadacre permaculture, whole systems learning, plant walks, and tree ID sessions. If you do plan on attending, please consider carpooling. If you haven't picked up your tickets yet, get them today at midatlanticpermacultureconvergence.eventbrite.com. Sponsors Inside Edge Design, in Helena, Montana, a permaculture design, consulting, and education firm, offers designs that focus on creating sustainable and ecological cultures that support people and the landscape. In cooperation with Broken Ground Permaculture and Penny-Livingston Stark, they are offering a Permaculture Design Course from July 15-27, 2016 specifically created to accommodate families and couples, including offering onsite childcare, and couples discounts. Sign up today! PermieKids, created by permaculture practitioner and educator Jen Mendez, is a resource to inspire and nurture those teachers, parents, and families interested in incorporating permaculture education into the lives of children in the community or at home. Though the site Jen offers a free ongoing podcast where you can learn about transitioning to a rich, ecologically sound life that includes children and learning at every step of the way. If you want to dive deeper you may be interested in her Community Experiential Education by Design program, or Edge Alliances. Find out more about these and more at PermieKids.com. Your Garden Solution Good Seed Co. Want to sponsor or advertise on the show? Contact Kendra Hoffman. Resources Make Mead Like a Viking The Year of Mud The POOSH Salamander Springs Farm Inside Edge Design Permaculture Design Course Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence (Information and Tickets)  Connect with the Podcast Support the Podcast (PayPal.Me) On Patreon On Instagram On Facebook On Twitter  

Donate to The Permaculture Podcast Online: via PayPal Venmo: @permaculturepodcast My guests for this episode are Nate Kleinman of Experimental Farm Network, Paul Glover the founder of Philadelphia Orchard Project, Robyn Mello of Philadelphia Orchard Project, and Kirtrina Baxter of Public Interest Law Center, recorded earlier this year at Repair the World. Today's interview is the second Philadelphia Roundtable recording and is a question and answer session with the audience. The questions result in answers that touch on the reality of how monies are allocated for projects, the impact of genetically modified foods and plant breeding on our loss of seed diversity, the importance of seed saving, poultry disobedience, and so much more. As a result of the density of this conversation, you'll find a long list of additional resources in the show notes which includes how to contact each of the panelists if you would like to follow up with any of them. All of us have gifts, talents, and abilities that can change the world. Maybe right now they aren't getting used because, as Robyn mentions, we're afraid. Or as Paul says, we have to act with civil disobedience to get there. I can't say how much you can take on or how far you can push the lines before they push back, but am here to help you discover your passion, to jump even though it seems frightening, and get your work done. If after listening to this interview there is any way I can help you on your journey, to do what it is that inspires you, whether to take the first step forward or to arrive at your destination, get in touch. The phone number is and the email address is . If digital means are not your preferred way to reach me, you can also drop something in the mail. That address is: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast From here, coming up is the Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence outside of Charles Town, West Virginia, at The Riverside Project. The keynote speaker for this day is Michael Judd, talking about his experiences as a permaculture practitioner, with opening remarks by Joel Glanzberg. Classes and workshops are scheduled on Living in the Gift, Animals in Permaculture, Broadacre permaculture, whole systems learning, plant walks, and tree ID sessions. If you do plan on attending, please consider carpooling. If you haven't picked up your tickets yet, get them today at midatlanticpermacultureconvergence.eventbrite.com. Seppi's Place is offering a Permaculture Design Course in The Gift. Seppi Garrett, Alexis Campbell, and myself are offering this course as a gift of our time and knowledge. We share this without expectation of further return or compensation. Outside of our time and knowledge there are baseline operational expenses for the course. These costs include: use of the space, books, and educational materials (which each student will receive). Also, we plan to host several guest instructors who will need to be compensated for time and travel. We ask that students cover these baseline expenses for the course in the following manner: $225 for all three units (students will receive a Permaculture Design Certificate) $175 for Unit 1 & Unit 2 (without certificate) $100 for any one unit (without certificate) Unit1: Permaculture Philosophy and Practice: July 7 - 10, 2016. Unit2: Permaculture Immersion: August 11 - 14, 2016. Unit3: Permaculture Design Practicum: September 15 -18, 2016. If you are near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, register today and we'll see you soon. Until the next time, take care of Earth, yourself, and each other. Sponsors Good Seed Company, a business with over 40 years of experience delivering open pollinated, non-GMO seeds, believes we have an inalienable right to these seeds for common use. These are the seeds saved by our ancestors for thousands of years that can sustain us today, and contribute to a bountiful future for the generations yet to come. Find out more about the rich history of this company and the importance of seed saving at goodseedco.net, or shop the catalog of ecologically grown organic seeds online. Store.goodseedco.net. Inside Edge Design, in Helena, Montana, a permaculture design, consulting, and education firm, offers designs that focus on creating sustainable and ecological cultures that support people and the landscape. In cooperation with Broken Ground Permaculture and Penny-Livingston Stark, they are offering a Permaculture Design Course (link) from July 15-27, 2016 specifically created to accommodate families and couples. Find out more at Inside Edge Design or via the link in the show notes. PermieKids Your Garden Solution Resources Nate Kleinman nathankleinman@gmail.com 215-264-0446 The Experimental Farm Network Experimental Farm Network (Facebook) Experimental Farm Network (Instagram) Paul Glover PaulGlover.org Citizen Planners Los Angeles a History of the Future Patch Adams Robyn Mello robyn@phillyorchards.org 215-571-9506 Philadelphia Orchard Project Beardfest.net Kirtrina Baxter kbaxter@pilcop.org Public Interest Law Center Garden Justice Legal Initiative Grounded In Philly Black Permaculture Network Black Permaculture Network (Facebook) Other Permies United (Facebook) Occupy Vacant Lots Soil Generation Bartram's Garden Nanticoke Indian Squash (Experimental Farm Network) Hudson Valley Library Black Shackamaxon Bean (Bites of Food History) Seed Savers Exchange Native Seeds William Woys Weaver Inside Edge Design Permaculture Design Course Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence (Information and Tickets) Seppi's Place Permaculture Design Course in The Gift Connect with the Podcast Donate to the show (PayPal.Me) On Patreon On Instagram On Facebook On Twitter

Donate to The Permaculture Podcast Online: via PayPal Venmo: @permaculturepodcast Today's interview is with Jesse Peterson and Penny Livingston-Stark about how to make permaculture education more accessible and provides different ways to do so for families and couples, as well as for those whom the more traditional two week intensive is burdensome. We also discuss different class formats beyond the design course, and what age is appropriate for a student to receive a certificate. Penny also delves into what it means to being a certified permaculture designer. You can find out more about Jesse and her work at insideedgedesign.com, and Penny is at regenerativedesign.org. The upcoming permaculture design course they are co-teaching together is in Bozeman, Montana, from July 15 - 27, 2016, and integrates many of the ideas we discussed here. [caption id="attachment_3417" align="aligncenter" width="300"] Jesse and her daughter[/caption] Permaculture accessibility is of ongoing importance to me, as well as those of us who call Seppi's Place home. Though my work on the podcast continues to push the edges of social, economic, and community permaculture, the core corpus of knowledge that comes with designing a series of permacultures rests in the Permaculture Design Course, which requires steeping one's self in the language of the land, food, and gardens; water, clothing, work, and shelter. Through that one gains a core understanding of the language and lexicon of practicing permaculture. It isn't the destination of the journey, but the starting point, a place too often one cannot start down because of barriers of time, cost, or burden to family. That is changing, however, as more permaculture teachers, such as Penny and Jesse, see this problem and try different solutions. In their case, they provide child care and couples discounts. In others, the format is broken up and spread out over a series of weekends. Some are even being offered in the gift-economy. As time and needs change, so does our approach to permaculture. I remember a time speaking of permaculture beyond the landscape seemed completely foreign and antithetical to the work, but more books and articles emerge on social and economic permaculture each day. The more teachers and students who take up the mantle to teach and learn this material, the more options we have in sharing it with others, and in continue to make it more accessible and affordable. Whether you are a student looking for an alternative to the traditional design course intensive, or are a teacher who is offering something different, I'd like to hear from you. My phone number is and the email address is . If digital means are not your preferred way to reach me, you can also drop something in the mail. That address is: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast From here, coming up is the Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence outside of Charles Town, West Virginia, at The Riverside Project. The keynote speaker for this day is Michael Judd, talking about his experiences as a permaculture practitioner, with opening remarks by Joel Glanzberg. Classes and workshops are scheduled on Living in the Gift, Animals in Permaculture, Broadacre permaculture, whole systems learning, plant walks, and tree ID sessions. If you do plan on attending, please consider carpooling. If you haven't picked up your tickets yet, get them today at midatlanticpermacultureconvergence.eventbrite.com. Until the next time, take care of Earth, yourself, and each other. Sponsors This interview is possible because of listeners like you who sign up as ongoing members at Patreon.com, by those who make one time contributions via the PayPal link on the side bar of the podcast website at thepermaculturepodcast.com, and by the show sponsors. Today's sponsors are Your Garden Solution and Good Seed Company. Your Garden Solution is a Pennsylvania company run by a permaculture practitioner and their business partner that helps people to garden using the techniques developed by Mel Bartholomew and popularized in his book Square Foot Gardening. In addition to garden installation and education, they also have an excellent soil mix and compost ready for your raised beds. Find out more at yourgardensolution.org. Good Seed Company has been in business for over 40 years and believes we have an inalienable right to open pollinated, non-GMO seeds for common use. These are the seeds saved by our ancestors for thousands of years that can sustain us today, and contribute to a bountiful future for the generations yet to come. Find out more about the rich history of this company and the importance of seed saving at goodseedco.net, or shop the catalog of ecologically grown organic seeds online. Store.goodseedco.net. Your Garden Solution Good Seed Co. Inside Edge Design PermieKids Resources Permaculture Design Course with Broken Ground Inside Edge Design Regenerative Design Institute Institute of Permaculture Education for Children Jen Mendez of PermieKids Sarah Wolbert David Sobel David's Books Connect with the Podcast Support the Podcast (PayPal.Me) On Patreon On Instagram On Facebook On Twitter  

Donate to The Permaculture Podcast Online: via PayPal Venmo: @permaculturepodcast This is the first of two in-person conversation recorded early in 2016, and is a follow-up to the interview recorded last year with Erik and Victoria. Today the focus on Victoria and The Forager's Apprentice program. During this course she provides a foundation to her students in botany, wild foods, and herbal medicine. The class starts the conversation, but where we wind up is deeper into the personal change that comes from a connection with nature; to know that nature is us and we are it; that we create our lives and the resulting yields from the system; and that each of us can choose to take action out of fear or out of love. Just as we hold that choice, Victoria shares how her studies of healing lead to an understanding that trusting ourselves, one another, and the mystery of life leads to abundance and true, lasting security. We become free. Find out more about Victoria and The Forager's Apprentice program at charmcityfarms.org, and via the links in the resource section below.There is a parable, sometimes called “The Wolves Within” and attributed to the Cherokee, that came to mind when Victoria spoke about fear and love. A grandfather is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside of me,” he says to the boy. “This terrible fight is between two wolves. One is evil, full of anger, envy, sorrow, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good, full of joy peace, love, hope, serenity, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going inside of you, and everyone else.” The grandson thought about this and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?” The old man replied, “The one you feed.” I've read or heard a version of that lesson dozens of times. For years, though a person of faith, I trusted the results that came largely from the security of a full-time job, often working more than 60 hours a week. It was the only way I knew to live. Even now there are times when it is incomprehensible, but a mystery arises by feeding your personal abundance, that wolf of joy, that brings more abundance into the world and sets you free, opening unimaginable doors. Whichever wolf you currently find yourself feeding, if I can help you tend it, get in touch. My phone number is and email is . If digital means are not your preferred way to reach me, you can also drop something in the mail. That address is: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast From here, coming up is the Mid-Atlantic Permaculture Convergence outside of Charles Town, West Virginia, at The Riverside Project. The keynote speaker for this day is Michael Judd, talking about his experiences as a permaculture practitioner, with opening remarks by Joel Glanzberg. Classes and workshops are scheduled on Living in the Gift, Animals in Permaculture, Broadacre permaculture, whole systems learning, plant walks, and tree ID sessions. If you do plan on attending, please consider carpooling. If you haven't picked up your tickets yet, get them today at midatlanticpermacultureconvergence.eventbrite.com. Until the next time, embrace the mystery of life and take care of Earth, yourself, and each other. Sponsors PermieKids, created by permaculture practitioner and educator Jen Mendez, is a resource to inspire and nurture those teachers, parents, and families interested in incorporating permaculture education into the lives of children in the community or at home. Through the site Jen offers a free ongoing podcast where you can learn about transitioning to a rich, ecologically sound life that includes children and learning at every step of the way. If you want to dive deeper you may be interested in her Community Experiential Education by Design program, or Edge Alliances. Find out more at PermieKids.com. Your Garden Solution is a Pennsylvania company run by a permaculture practitioner and their business partner that helps people to garden using the techniques developed by Mel Bartholomew and popularized in his book Square Foot Gardening. In addition to garden installation and education, they also have an excellent soil mix and compost ready for your raised beds. Find out more at yourgardensolution.org. Inside Edge Design Good Seed Co. Resources The Forager's Apprentice Charm City Farms Urban Permaculture in Baltimore (The first interview with Eric and Victoria) Aldo Leopold Barbara Brennan Henry David Thoreau Gary Strauss Jack Kornfield Connect with the Podcast Support the Podcast (PayPal.Me) On Patreon On Instagram On Facebook On Twitter  

Joel Glanzberg has been a builder, farmer, teacher, writer, storyteller, naturalist, and permaculturalist for over 30 years. His early work establishing the site and research behind Flowering Tree Permaculture is featured in the book Gaia’s Garden, among others. He is … Continue reading → The post Joel Glanzberg appeared first on Bluebird Hill Homestead.

For centuries, the Taos Pueblo people in New Mexico lived entirely off their land. Sustainable agriculture was a way of life, but U.S. federal policies helped put an end to that. Food wasn't grown at the pueblos; it was trucked in. Traditional farming gave way to government subsidies and obesity rates soared. But recently, a surprising agricultural renaissance has taken root across the pueblos. On this edition, Making Contact's Rita Daniels takes us to the Taos Pueblo in New Mexico to share a story of rebirth and renewal. This program was partially funded by the Ben and Jerry's Foundation, the Mitchell Kapor Foundation, and the Seed Fund at the Rudolf Steiner Foundation. Featuring: Leonard Archuleta, Taos Pueblo Farmer and Red Willow Co-operative Member; Shirley Trujillo, Red Willow Farmers Market Manager; Joel Glanzberg, Native American Permaculture Teacher; Deryl Lujan, Taos Pueblo Rancher; Shawn Duran, Red Willow Education Center Director; Ezra Bales, Pueblo Day School Wellness Coordinator; Hillary Duran, University of New Mexico at Taos Student and Red Willow Education Center Intern. For More Information: Added Value & Herban Solutions http://www.added-value.org/ California Institute for Rural Studies “Hunger in the Fields – Food Access Issues Among Farmworkers in Fresno County” http://www.cirsinc.org/Documents/Hunger_in_the_Fields.pdf Grassroots International – Funding Global Movement for Social Change “Food for Thought and Action: A Food Sovereignty Curriculum” http://bit.ly/4xiPhp Heritage Radio Network Internet-based radio station about food featuring leading farmers, food mavericks, filmmakers, artists and tastemakers. www.heritageradionetwork.com Indigenous Permaculture Program A fiscal-sponsorship project of ‘The Ecology Center' to gain food security and access to healthy and nutritious foods for local communities http://www.indigenous-permaculture.com/ “Native Recipe for Health” by Gabriel Thompson Yes! Magazine  (September 13, 2009) The Tohono O'odham Nation tackles diabetes with a return to desert foods. http://bit.ly/3yWUd1 Yes Magazine Food Issue (February 13, 2009) Theme Guide:  Food for Everyone http://bit.ly/3ajd8e The post Making Contact – Native Harvest for a Modern World (ENCORE) appeared first on KPFA.

For centuries, the Taos Pueblo people in New Mexico lived entirely off their land.  Sustainable agriculture was a way of life, but U.S. federal policies helped put an end to that.  Food wasn't grown at the pueblos; it was trucked in. Traditional farming gave way to government subsidies and obesity rates soared.  But recently, a surprising agricultural renaissance has taken root across the pueblos.  On this edition, Making Contact's Rita Daniels takes us to the Taos Pueblo in New Mexico to share a story of rebirth and renewal.  This program was partially funded by the Ben and Jerry's Foundation, the Mitchell Kapor Foundation, and the Seed Fund at the Rudolf Steiner Foundation. Featuring:  Leonard Archuleta, Taos Pueblo Farmer and Red Willow Co-operative Member; Shirley Trujillo, Red Willow Farmers Market Manager; Joel Glanzberg, Native American Permaculture Teacher; Deryl Lujan, Taos Pueblo Rancher; Shawn Duran, Red Willow Education Center Director; Ezra Bales, Pueblo Day School Wellness Coordinator; Hillary Duran, University of New Mexico at Taos Student and Red Willow Education Center Intern.   The post Making Contact – Native Harvest for a Modern World appeared first on KPFA.