Podcast appearances and mentions of reuben clark

In This Episode:This week the guys sit down with Mitch Bahr. In 1984, Mitch was 11 when he hears a live performance of "Rhapsody in Blue" as part of the 1984 Olympic Opening Ceremonies. In that moment, he felt like music needed to be a part of his life. Now, almost 40 years later, music is an integral part of Mitch's incredibly rich life. In his time with Mike and Tyler, Mitch shares his journey and the lessons that life has taught him along the way. The result is an incredible episode with an incredible guy who would be nothing without his incredible wife, Carmen. You think you have a great "How you met your spouse" story? Wait until you hear Mitch's. And let's get one thing straight... Mitch teaches more than just music. He invests in people and great music happens as a by-product. Class is in session here as he gives a master class about being centered on what's important, being content, what it means to be truly successful, the importance of empathy, that "faith is not a fortune cookie", and so much more. Mitch Bahr, thanks for showing up the way you did. Thank you for living life the way that you do and for showing us all how to do it right. Keep going!Show NotesWho Said It..."All the voices from above sweetly whisper God is love." -Hymn "God is Love"“I believe that in his justice and mercy, [Jesus Christ] will give us the maximum reward for our acts, give us all that he can give, and in the reverse, I believe that he will impose upon us the minimum penalty which it is possible for him to impose.” – J. Reuben Clark, Jr."Comparison is the thief of joy." -Theodore RooseveltReferences...RMIT Episode #43: Troy Blanchard-"Choose Your Own Adventure"1984 Olympics Opening Ceremonies "Rhapsody in Blue"Biola UniversityMervyn'sMitch's music program at Foothill High SchoolLA GearReebokLa La LandLittle Country Church in Redding, CA.Valley Christian Fellowship in Anderson, CA.KVIP RadioRMIT Episode #11: Steven Mitchell-"Time Slowed Sweet"WhiplashRomans 1Mitch Bahr-2016 California Teacher of the Year"Lingus" by Snarky PuppyVulfpeckPsst...Check out our website or visit us on our Facebook and Instagram platforms.Mike and Tyler are both members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  If you would like to learn more about the Church or their beliefs, we invite you to check it out by clicking here.

Angela Hallstrom, a writer and former member of the Saints project who is also a General Editor of volume 3, talks to us about Emmy Cziep and her escape from Czechoslovakia as World War 2 began. Angela shares insights into the researching and writing of Saints as we also discuss President J. Reuben Clark and his efforts to improve religious education in the Church.

Hour 1 * a teacher propped open a door minutes before the shooter entered – Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety. * Guest: Chris Carlson – Without God, we can never win, With God, we can never lose, The Battle for Freedom is the Lord's, but we need to be engaged in the fight! – Discussion of All Things Liberty. * Book Review: This Nation Shall Endure, Ezra Taft Benson. * “Religious freedom cannot prosper where political freedom does not exist.” – “For man to exercise fully the agency God has granted to him, his God-given natural rights must be recognized and protected.” * Today we live in a land choice above all other lands. There is Both a Blessing and a Curse Upon this Land. * Where Are Our Founding Fathers Today? * We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power. … But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. * “Unless we as citizens of this nation forsake our sins, political and otherwise, and return to the fundamental principles of Christianity and of constitutional government, we will lose our political liberties, our free institutions, and will stand in jeopardy before God of losing our exaltation.” * “I say to you that the price of liberty is, and always has been, blood, human blood, and if our liberties are lost, we shall never regain them except at the price of blood. They must not be lost!” – J. Reuben Clark. * How Serious is our Duty to Uphold the Constitution? – “A citizen of this republic cannot do his duty and be an idle spectator.” – Benson. * “I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval on the Constitution.” – Benson. * The Enemy Within the Gate! Hour 2 * Book Review: This Nation Shall Endure, Ezra Taft Benson – Presents a fervent plea in defense of man's God-given rights, and a challenge to all Americans to overcome their complacency about America's continued prosperity and their own role in her destiny. * The Parables of the Workers in the Field and of the Talents. * “Our problems today are essentially problems of the spirit – The solution is personal and national reformation. In short, it is to bring our national character ahead of our technological and material advances. Repentance is the sovereign remedy to our problems.” * The Supreme Court denied a petition from 10 Republican-led states Thursday requesting it to block a key Biden administration climate policy. The decision ensures that President Joe Biden's so-called “social cost” of carbon policy — which assigns an estimated dollar value or cost to every ton of carbon emissions, according to the Government Accountability Office — can remain in place and be used for future federal permitting processes. * The high court rejected states' April 27 petition without giving a reason or listing which justices opposed it, according to a one-page filing published on the Supreme Court docket. * Sam: Nullification is the “Rightful Remedy” – Nullify Now! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/loving-liberty/support

* a teacher propped open a door minutes before the shooter entered - Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety. * Guest: Chris Carlson - Without God, we can never win, With God, we can never lose, The Battle for Freedom is the Lord's, but we need to be engaged in the fight! - Discussion of All Things Liberty. * Book Review: This Nation Shall Endure, Ezra Taft Benson. * “Religious freedom cannot prosper where political freedom does not exist.” - “For man to exercise fully the agency God has granted to him, his God-given natural rights must be recognized and protected.” * Today we live in a land choice above all other lands. There is Both a Blessing and a Curse Upon this Land. * Where Are Our Founding Fathers Today? * We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power. … But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. * “Unless we as citizens of this nation forsake our sins, political and otherwise, and return to the fundamental principles of Christianity and of constitutional government, we will lose our political liberties, our free institutions, and will stand in jeopardy before God of losing our exaltation.” * “I say to you that the price of liberty is, and always has been, blood, human blood, and if our liberties are lost, we shall never regain them except at the price of blood. They must not be lost!” - J. Reuben Clark. * How Serious is our Duty to Uphold the Constitution? - "A citizen of this republic cannot do his duty and be an idle spectator." - Benson. * “I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval on the Constitution.” - Benson. * The Enemy Within the Gate!

J. Reuben Clark shares his deep and abiding testimony that Jesus Christ is our Creator and Redeemer—a testimony we all need to seek. Support the show: https://ldsp-pay.ldschurch.org/donations/byu/byu-speeches.html See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joseph Smith described perfection as a "fullness of light and knowledge," not a state of punctilious obedience, piety, or holiness. We would do well to decriminalize doubt in the church in order to make space for noble doubts that beget inquiry, rationality, and healthy skepticism. The right kind of doubting lends itself well to further acquisition of light and knowledge. We have no need to fear the sort of doubt that foments faith. As J. Reuben Clark once explained, "investigation can't harm truth. If we have the truth, comparisons will do no harm to us. Only those who do not have the truth can have their beliefs shaken by investigation.”

Joseph Smith described perfection as a "fullness of light and knowledge," not a state of punctilious obedience, piety, or holiness. We would do well to decriminalize doubt in the church in order to make space for noble doubts that beget inquiry, rationality, and healthy skepticism. The right kind of doubting lends itself well to further acquisition of light and knowledge. We have no need to fear the sort of doubt that foments faith. As J. Reuben Clark once explained, "investigation can't harm truth. If we have the truth, comparisons will do no harm to us. Only those who do not have the truth can have their beliefs shaken by investigation.”

Justin Collins of the J. Reuben Clark Jr Law School shares his address, "A Certain Idea of BYU." Finding Center is a daily hour of spiritual focus and re-centering. Religious leaders, university faculty, and other thoughtful people share insight and experiences on topics most meaningful to them. On Tuesdays, we'll bring you live devotionals and forum addresses from the BYU campus. M-F 1 Eastern/10 Pacific

Cecilia and Reuben Clark were a power couple. Her: chief surgeon at the Galbraith hospital. Him: head chef at the Galbraith hospital. Together, serial killers at the Galbraith hospital. Learn more about them, renal failure, and the singular bird hole in this episode of Murder She Joked. Today's episode features Max Kemp from Cherry Bomb and Gnu Tales. This is the final episode of our third season! We'll be taking a few months off and will be back with more episodes later this winter. Cast (in order of appearance:) Katy Hennen, Max Kemp, Dana Daniele, Libby Genz. Editing by Drew Harrison. Production by Dana Daniele. Theme Song by Meghan Rose. Artwork by Dave Daniele. Sound effects from PacDV, FreeSound.org, Sound Effects Plus, and Free Music Archive.

Matthias Cicotte, better known to his friends as J. Reuben Clark, is a lawyer, homeschooler, & poster of good tweets. He is developing a series of history books for children based on classical sources (Plutarch's Lives, Caesar's Conquest of Gaul, etc). We discuss: why literally any homeschool arrangement is better than public school carving out room for boys in feminized education the wastefulness of pushing kids (& adults) beyond their cognitive maturity navigating the decline & fall of the empire, the future of BYU the sportsbro, and what can be done about him

This episode continues the story of Latter-day Saints in the Great War, 1914-1918.  Whether Americans, Germans, Canadians or British, Latter-day Saints either volunteered or were conscripted into their nation's Armed Forces.  Then began the long, grueling process of hammering the one-time citizens into Soldiers.This episode explores, from the first-hand accounts of US, UK, Canadian and German Latter-day Saints what it was like to train for war.   Key Words: J. Reuben Clark, Archibald Bennett, Hugh B. Brown, Ivan A. Farnsworth, Lester Hubbard,  Elmer Baddley, William Barth, Arthur Guy Empey.  To learn more about the information in this episode, please check out the following (excellent!) sources: Robert Freeman & Andrew Skinner, Saints at War: World War I (2018).James Perry, British Latter-day Saints in the Great War, 1914-1918, 44 J. of Mormon Hist. 70 (July 2018).James L. Mangum, The Influence of the First World War on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, BYU Thesus (23 Jan. 2007), https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1839&context=etd.  G.J. Meyer, A World Undone: The Story of the Great War 1914-1918 (2006).Jeffrey L. Anderson, Mormons and Germany, 1914-1933: A History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Germany and its Relationship Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Germany and its Relationship With the German Governments from World War I to the Rise of With the German Governments from World War I to the Rise of Hitler, BYU Thesis and Dissertation (1991), https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5475&context=etd. 

My older brother Matt has been teaching seminary and institute for 20 plus years. He talks about choosing to have a career in S & I, how the curriculum has changed over the years and they focus. Matt loves his students and recalls different youth and young adults who have influenced his life as a teacher. You don't want to miss this touching podcast interview. "We may not give the fanciest lesson, we may not be just terrifically skillful with audio visual aids…but we can share with every student the fire of our faith, and we can warm our hands by it. I've been painfully disappointed over the years…that wonderful lessons given by loyal gifted teachers who somehow at the end of a class will say, “Well, there's the bell. Brother Jones, will you give the prayer?” And it's over. No closing the books, no looking in the eye for just a minute. No settling down to just say, in effect, where have we been, where are we going, and what is the Lord trying to do?….In some cases not a single reference to what this was supposed to mean to the student or to the teacher that I am left to walk away saying, “I wonder how he felt about that? I wonder how he thought about it? Or what it was supposed to mean to him or to me?” So much effort to get some doctrine, some principle, some map, some video clip across to the students, but not a hint of personal testimony about what that doctrine or that principle meant to the teacher the one who was suppose to lead us and guide us and walk besides us. As President J. Reuben Clark once said, “never let your faith be difficult to detect.” Maybe I'll repeat that. “Never let your faith be difficult to detect.” Never sow seeds of doubt. Avoid self-serving performance and vanity. Don't try to dazzle everyone with how brilliant you are–dazzle them with how brilliant the gospel is. Don't worry about the location of the lost tribes or the three nephites; worry a little more about the location of your student–what's going on in his heart, what's going on in her soul–the hunger. Sometimes the near desperate spiritual needs of our people. Teach them and above all testify to them, love them, bear your witness from the depths of your soul. It will be the most important thing you say to them in the entire hour, and it may save someone's spiritual life. -Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, 2007 World Wide Leadership Training IG: bethnewellcoaching Email: bethnewellcoaching@gmail.com

My older brother Matt has been teaching seminary and institute for 20 plus years. He talks about choosing to have a career in S & I, how the curriculum has changed over the years and they focus. Matt loves his students and recalls different youth and young adults who have influenced his life as a teacher. You don't want to miss this touching podcast interview. "We may not give the fanciest lesson, we may not be just terrifically skillful with audio visual aids…but we can share with every student the fire of our faith, and we can warm our hands by it. I've been painfully disappointed over the years…that wonderful lessons given by loyal gifted teachers who somehow at the end of a class will say, “Well, there's the bell. Brother Jones, will you give the prayer?” And it's over. No closing the books, no looking in the eye for just a minute. No settling down to just say, in effect, where have we been, where are we going, and what is the Lord trying to do?….In some cases not a single reference to what this was supposed to mean to the student or to the teacher that I am left to walk away saying, “I wonder how he felt about that? I wonder how he thought about it? Or what it was supposed to mean to him or to me?” So much effort to get some doctrine, some principle, some map, some video clip across to the students, but not a hint of personal testimony about what that doctrine or that principle meant to the teacher the one who was suppose to lead us and guide us and walk besides us. As President J. Reuben Clark once said, “never let your faith be difficult to detect.” Maybe I'll repeat that. “Never let your faith be difficult to detect.” Never sow seeds of doubt. Avoid self-serving performance and vanity. Don't try to dazzle everyone with how brilliant you are–dazzle them with how brilliant the gospel is. Don't worry about the location of the lost tribes or the three nephites; worry a little more about the location of your student–what's going on in his heart, what's going on in her soul–the hunger. Sometimes the near desperate spiritual needs of our people. Teach them and above all testify to them, love them, bear your witness from the depths of your soul. It will be the most important thing you say to them in the entire hour, and it may save someone's spiritual life. -Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, 2007 World Wide Leadership Training IG: bethnewellcoaching Email: bethnewellcoaching@gmail.com

Included in Bruce R. McConkie's “Seven Deadly Heresies” list was the notion that there could be progression between kingdoms of glory. He said people “neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within its sphere.” This supposition, however, comes in direct conflict with a host of other church leaders who have voiced support for the idea of progress from kingdom to kingdom. Joseph and Hyrum, James E. Talmage, B.H. Roberts, and J. Reuben Clark among others believed in eternal increase from one kingdom to the next.

Included in Bruce R. McConkie's “Seven Deadly Heresies” list was the notion that there could be progression between kingdoms of glory. He said people “neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within its sphere.” This supposition, however, comes in direct conflict with a host of other church leaders who have voiced support for the idea of progress from kingdom to kingdom. Joseph and Hyrum, James E. Talmage, B.H. Roberts, and J. Reuben Clark among others believed in eternal increase from one kingdom to the next.

For some, the greatest stresses and worries in life come from external temptations; for many others, the internal temptations to doubt, disparage, and discourage can be the most damaging. In this episode we study Jesus' wrestle with these kinds of temptations in search for how we, like Him, can stand strong.    Show Notes   J. Reuben Clark, "The Charted Course of the Church in Education." Richard G. Scott, "First Things First," General Conference, April 2001. Howard W. Hunter, "The Temptations of Christ," General Conference, October 1976.   Music: Blue Dot Sessions, "Weathervane," Creative Commons.

We're continuing our conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Chadwick, New Testament scholar at BYU.  We'll talk about why Book of Mormon helps date birth of Christ.  We'll also talk about critics who complain that it says Jesus was born at Jerusalem.  How does Dr. Chadwick respond to that charge? https://youtu.be/ij9HYUHRXbk Jeff:  Bethlehem is just five miles south of ancient Jerusalem in terms of a town in a town. Today. Bethlehem is to Jerusalem the lead the way Orem is to Provo. If there weren't a political barrier there, because Israeli territory separates from Palestinian territory, you wouldn't know you were crossing from Jerusalem to Bethlehem today. They're literally that close. But they were five miles separate anciently. But Bethlehem was easily described in ancient texts as being in the district or county of Jerusalem or what Nephi himself calls, the Land of Jerusalem. In Alma 7:10, it does say Jesus was born at Jerusalem, the land of our forefathers. So, it is referring to Jerusalem as a land instead of a city. In other words, someone is born in Salt Lake County. Whether he's in Salt Lake City or whether he's in... GT: Sandy or Herriman... Jeff:   ...somewhere else there. Well, if you're born in the land of Jerusalem, you're in the vicinity there. There are some ancient texts that do refer to, we think, to Bethlehem as being in the land of Jerusalem, including some Egyptian texts. So, there's nothing wrong with that. GT:  So Egyptian texts say he was born in Jerusalem? Jeff: No, not that. They say that Bethlehem is a town in the district or Land of Jerusalem. One of the el Amarna texts, which actually dates long before 600 BC, notes, Bethlehem, a town in the Land of Jerusalem. So, it was not unusual in ancient times to refer to Bethlehem, if you had any reason to refer to it, as a town in the Land of Jerusalem. Alma 7:10 has never been one of those things that I've lost any sleep over. There are plenty of things you have to work to describe in scripture, but that one is not a problem. We'll also answer other questions, like this: Didn't Joseph Smith say Jesus was born on April 6th? Jeff: Joseph Smith made no statement on the timing of the birth of Christ. What Joseph Smith did was dictate the language of Doctrine and Covenants, section 20. But Doctrine and Covenants, section 20, verse one, which says that the church was established on the sixth day of April 1830 years after the coming of the Lord in the flesh. [This] was to note within the calendaring system, accepted at that time and still in ours, the date of the founding of the Latter-Day Saint Church, not the date of Jesus' birth, in saying, and by the way, this is J. Reuben Clark in his book, 'Our Lord of the Gospels,' which was another Latter-Day Saint commentary on the life of Christ, which appeared 50 years after Brother Talmage's. Brother Clark took the position that Doctrine and Covenants section 20 verse one is not giving the imprimatur of accuracy to our current calendar. That what Doctrine Covenant Section 20 verse one is simply doing is saying the church was established on April 6 in the year we generally refer to as 1830, the year of our Lord. That's all, not more or less. In elder Bruce R. McConkie's series called 'The Mortal Messiah,' he actually asks kind of in an end note to one of his chapters, what was the year of Jesus' birth. Then after saying this is a question about which the learned delight to debate, he goes ahead and debates it. What he does is he states what Elder Talmage's position was in Jesus the Christ where he used Doctrine and Covenant section 20, verse one to suggest that Jesus was born on April 6th, 1830 years before the church was founded, but then he also points out what President J. Reuben Clark said, which was that gospel scholarship in general throughout Christianity, based on historical documents available, particularly about the life of Herod the Great and about Roman dating,

The United States were grappling with the Civil Rights Movement during the tumultuous 1960s.  In our next conversation with Matt Harris, we will talk about key events in the 1960s that affect the LDS Church's teaching about race and how the Civil Rights Movement impacted the Mormon Church.  We will even learn that Elder Brown predicted to end ban in 1962 General Conference! https://youtu.be/023tWoriAqA Matt: Hugh B. Brown was front and center in church leadership trying to get the brethren to overturn the ban.  He is working behind the scenes.  He is doing the best that he can, but it is very, very challenging for him.  In 1962 he will have a private meeting with Lowell Bennion, whom we have already talked about who didn't support the ban and told President McKay in private. So, it was no secret that President McKay knew where Brother Bennion stood.  Anyway, in March of 1962, Hugh B. Brown tells Lowell Bennion, “We're going to lift the ban here next month.  Make sure you come to [General] Conference.”[1] GT:  '62?! Matt:  This is March of '62. GT:  Wow. Matt: “Come to Conference next month.  We're going to lift the ban.” The prediction of course is in April of '62, we're going to have this big announcement at General Conference.  “We have been studying this issue, and there is nothing more difficult for the church,” Brown tells Bennion, “than this issue, and we're going to fix it.” So, I can only imagine Bennion showing up and nothing happens! We will also talk about the motivation behind the 1949 First Presidency statement, and apostle Hugh B. Brown's attempts to rescind the ban. Matt:  Recognizing that Lowry Nelson had spent time in Cuba as part of his profession, his field research, he decided to reach out to Nelson and ask him about Cuba and the racial population there because Nelson had lived there for a while.  Lowry Nelson wrote back and just said, “I don't think you can determine who has got negroid blood, and you shouldn't even try!  That's just immoral!” Nelson said something that is probably less than candid.  He said, “That was the first time I knew that the church felt this way about this.” Come on Lowry.  You grew up in the church.  So, Lowry Nelson writes the First Presidency after he exchanged correspondence with his good friend Heber Meeks.  He said, “Is it true that you are trying to establish a mission in Cuba, and just focus on the white population there and not the colored, the brown population?  Is that true?” The First Presidency wrote him back a series of letters.  They said, “Yes that is true, and we don't understand why God wants this ban, but this is the way it is.  Who are you to determine what God should do?” Nelson was really upset with the response, thinking that it was just a policy that could be changed.  But the brethren dug their heels in and sort of exacerbated the problem.  When they wrote back to Lowry Nelson, it was the first time where the First Presidency goes on record, and they sign the letter.  It is interesting.  They all sign these letters back and forth, all three of them:  George Albert Smith, J. Reuben Clark, and David O. McKay.  Clearly, they are trying to make a statement about the church's racial teachings, at least by the mid-20th century. What is interesting is he shares these letters on the underground with people.  He sends them to Juanita Brooks.[2]  He sends them to George Boyd who is the Institute person.  He sends them to all of these Institute people that he felt like he had a liberal kinship with, and they write him back.  ”Oh my goodness.  I didn't know the brethren felt this way, that they felt this strongly about it.” We'll also talk about Michigan and Mormon Governor George Romney's run for the U.S. presidency. You might recognize his famous son Mitt Romney did the same just a few years ago.  George Romney's cousin was also an LDS Apostle, and the 1960s had a lot of factions for and against the ban on blacks from temple...

We're continuing our conversation with Dr. Matt Harris.  In our next episode, we'll talk about the temple and priesthood ban in the 1950s.  Did you know that McKay considered lifting the ban as early as 1955? https://youtu.be/56oINIiTw5s Matt:  It's not surprising that when McKay came back from South Africa and convenes this committee with Elders [Adam] Bennion and Kimball, I'm not sure who else is on the committee, but I know it's those two.  They ask Lowell Bennion to do some research for them, and he produces a position paper, and he says there is no scriptural justification for any of this stuff.  So, Elder Bennion writes his report to President McKay and tells him that there is no scriptural justification for the priesthood ban.  This is 1954 I should say. So, President McKay contemplates lifting the ban, but he recognizes that it will cause hardship among the saints in the South.  Keep in mind this is still segregated America.  So, if he lifts this ban, it is going to create hardships among Latter-day Saints in the South.  Also, there are some folks in the Quorum of Twelve who wouldn't support the lifting of the ban:  Joseph Fielding Smith would be one of them. We will talk about a pretty significant change from a doctrine in 1949 to a policy in 1955. This is interesting because President McKay, as a counselor to George Albert Smith had signed that 1949 First Presidency statement that you referenced a minute ago…. GT:  Right. Matt:  …as a counselor. GT:  Now let's talk about that '49 statement. Matt:  Yes, we can.  So, as the church president, he signed that statement, and we can go into detail in a minute, but that statement makes it pretty clear that this is the doctrine of the church. GT:  And it uses the word “doctrine.” Matt:  It uses the word doctrine. GT:  That is an important word. Matt:  Right.  J. Reuben Clark writes the statement, and President McKay signs off on it. George Albert Smith is feeble by this point, and he is going to die a couple of years later, but anyway, President McKay, even though he signs that '49 statement, now he is the church president and he feels the weight of this policy on his own. President McKay considered lifting the ban in 1955 but was worried about reaction in the South. [paypal-donation]   Check out our conversation…..  Don't forget to check out parts 1 (about Brazil & South Africa) and 2 (the one-drop rule) of this conversation!

I'd like to introduce Dr. Matt Harris in our next conversation.  He has done a lot of Mormon history work and he's not very well-known, but I think he will be, especially after he finishes his upcoming books.  We will talk about some of these books that he has published, as well as his future books.  We're also going to talk about the history of the ban.  With the 40th anniversary of the removal of the ban coming up here in just a few weeks, this will be a very timely interview.  Dr. Matt Harris has some really interesting insights and it is going to reveal some really cool, historical information.  It's one of my favorite interviews yet.  Now, let's ask a little bit about how he is going to talk about Brazil.  What did the church do with missionaries there? https://youtu.be/DeOlEgo4vDI Matt:  In Brazil, they were kind of trendsetters, if you will.  They did what are called lineage lessons.  The mission president instructed the missionaries, and the mission president I should say got approval from Salt Lake to do this lineage lesson.  But it really was just mostly practiced in Brazil, rather than other places with African populations.  But anyway, these lineage lessons stipulated that if missionaries were out proselytizing and they came across somebody who had African ancestry, who had a parent that they felt would be a prime candidate for the restriction.  They were supposed to come to the door, knock on the door, recognize that they were under the ban and they would just say, “Can you tell us we're in the neighborhood; we are trying to find this general store or other church. Can you tell us where it is?” If they weren't sure if this couple had African ancestry, then they would come in and ask questions about their genealogy, trying to determine through discussion if they had African roots.  Sometimes they would even ask to look at their photo album.  They were discrete about it.  They weren't going to tell people this is what we are looking for, but this shows you how difficult the burden was in determining the bloodline.  J. Reuben Clark recognized this as early as 1938 and expressed skepticism that the church could confer the priesthood on Brazilians without violating this policy. There were similar issues in South Africa.  What happened there? Dr. Matt Harris talks about how LDS Church dealt with racial issues in Brazil & South Africa before the 1978 revelation. Please support Gospel Tangents by purchasing a transcript of previous conversations here on our store: Biography of Jane Manning James Dr. Paul Reeve:  The Complete Interview on the Ban Dr. Newell Bringhurst  Blacks, Brodie, and Brides Elijah Ables:  Faithful Black Mormon Pioneer If you would like a copy of this transcript as soon as it is available, please purchase a subscription for just $10/month to get this and future transcripts. Check out our conversation…..

We're winding down our Black History Month conversations with Dr. Newell Bringhurst.  In our next conversation, we'll talk about Walker Lewis, a black elder in Boston, Massachusetts.  In fact Wilford Woodruff once described this faithful black elder as “an example to our more whiter brethren.” https://youtu.be/cGFBJy9GbSk Newell:  He was based in Lowell, Massachusetts and he was a barber.  He also belonged to a black Masonic lodge.  There was kind of an interesting Masonic connection there with him.  Connell O'Donovan has done a lot more research on him than I have and shown that he had interaction with a number of apostles that were coming through, so he was well known amongst the apostles that were coming through.  It was William Smith, the younger brother of Joseph Smith that ordained him an elder. It's William Appleby who expresses shock when he comes upon him and he finds out Walker Lewis is an elder in the church and this is after the death of Joseph Smith, and [Appleby] writes back, “Is it right that this man should hold the priesthood?  If it is so I have yet to learn it.” So that's caused some people to say the ban maybe was in place even earlier but there isn't other evidence to support that.  Maybe it was just because whatever was going through Walker Lewis's mind.  There just weren't that many blacks in the church.  Maybe this was kind of an unusual situation for him. Ultimately as I say he becomes kind of a well-known figure.  They don't seem to question his priesthood.  That kind of supports the argument and is one more indication that there was no ban on black ordination.  Even in later church leaders, all the way down into the 20th century when Bennion is doing his study in [19]54, church leaders acknowledged that Walker Lewis had been ordained.  That was acknowledged by even J. Reuben Clark.  I discuss this in an article that is going to be forthcoming, the '54 recollections and the church struggling with whether blacks could be ordained and what could be the historical justifications were. But getting back to Walker Lewis himself, he eventually makes his way out to Utah thinking that maybe he can get his endowments but they deny him so he makes his way back to Boston or to Lowell and resumes his barber practice.  There are suggestions that later on, Jane James wants to be sealed to Walker Lewis because she is aware of who Walker Lewis was and that he was indeed a priesthood holder.  To bolster the legitimacy of her request for endowments, she says “Can I be sealed to Walker Lewis?”  Of course that is denied.  That is a poignant story in and of itself. Had you heard of Walker Lewis before?

[paypal-donation] Many of you are probably familiar with the story of Helmuth Hübener.  He was the young German teenager that was executed by Adolf Hitler for treason.  It's a wonderful story and BYU actually turned it into a play in the 1970s.  However, Church leaders were upset by the play and decided to suppress it.  Why was that?  Dr. David Conley Nelson details, as Paul Harvey would say, “the rest of the story.”  This is the story about Hübener you probably haven't heard. Elder Monson arrives and he takes in the play and he just doesn't seem to be as happy according to other witnesses as the rest of them.  Word comes down two days later through Dallin Oaks, there will be no more productions of “Huebener Against the Reich.”  In fact, Thomas Rogers is prohibited from releasing—it's his intellectual property, but he is prohibited from giving permission for anybody else to use that play. GT: Wow. David:  Furthermore, Alan Keele and Douglas Tobler are “asked” to put a hold on their research and not publish anything.  A couple of things have happened.  First off the German-American community got to Thomas Monson.  They don't like it, they don't like it at all because Hübener should not be considered a hero, he should be considered in some of their eyes an example of how not to behave. What does Dr. Nelson believe? The fact is, and this is my professional opinion, that Thomas Monson got it wrong because he didn't know enough about German culture.  He was a real great knowledgeable guy about German-American Mormons, but he did not realize that it was in the church's best interest.  If he thought it was the church's best interest to suppress Hübener, he was just diametrically wrong.  It would have been in the church's best interest to promote Hübener. Find out what else Nelson said, and don't forget to listen to our episodes on Jewish Genealogy and J. Reuben Clark!  Check out our conversation! https://youtu.be/Yod6VoT4arg [paypal-donation] Since it's the end of the year I wanted to ask a special favor.  We're going to do a year-end review of all the fun interviews we've done here at Gospel Tangents, and I'd like to hear what was your most favorite interview, as well as what were the most surprising things you learned over this past year on Gospel Tangents?  You can email me at Gospel Tangents at gmail dot com or you can also check out this link https://kwiksurveys.com/s/zK1fouUh that I've got for a special survey.  I would like to include any comments you have in our year-end special.  It will be coming next week.  Please include that as soon as you can either by email or you can fill out the survey!  Thanks a lot.  I'd really appreciate it. Take part in our online Survey on the Best of 2017 at Gospel Tangents

The Mormon Church is very well known for having a very well-organized institution. It wasn't always the case though. It turns out that J. Reuben Clark and David O. McKay called a mission president to Berlin, while President Grant who was in Europe at the time called a different man to be mission president. Both mission presidents arrived in Berlin. What happens next? Dr. David Nelson tells a very interesting story about rival mission presidents in the Berlin, Germany mission. David:  Heber J. Grant was in Germany.  What he was doing is he was celebrating 100 years of Mormonism in Europe, so he is on a 3 month tour of Germany, the prophet, seer, and revelator, Heber J. Grant.  He comes to Bern, Switzerland where the mission home is for what was known as then, the Swiss-German mission, later on became the West German mission.  He stays with Swiss-German mission, Philemon Kelly, who was a kindly man, a doctor from Idaho, a physician, medical doctor.  Sometime during stay, Pres Grant goes to Pres. Kelly and says, “How you like to be the mission president in Berlin?” That's a plum assignment.  Philemon Kelly [said], “I'll take it.”  He packed up and he's gone. At same time while President Grant is gone from Salt Lake City, David O. McKay and J. Reuben Clark are calling Albert C. Rees to be the mission president in Berlin, the same city.  The newspapers in Salt Lake City give goodbye editorials to Alfred C. Rees because he's one of them.  He's part of the newspaper industry there.  There's no doubt he is going to Berlin, but when he gets to Berlin he finds Philemon Kelly and his wife already installed in the mission home in the Tiergarten and Kelly won't give it up. In my book I write for a month or a month and a half, these two guys are competing.  No way Rees could turn around and take the consolation prize in Frankfurt, so he goes and rents a home, which the mission has to pay for, down the street and we have rival mission presidents in Berlin for this period of time. Who won?  You'll have to listen to find out!  Dr. Nelson also discusses some LDS interactions with Adolph Hitler. David:  You had a situation that happened there where some 900 German adolescent girls, not Mormons, but 900 adolescent girls came home from rally pregnant, unmarried girls ages 14-17.  There was an investigation.  In 400 cases they could not determine who father was because girl had multiple sexual partners.  This caused a stir and quite a bit of controversy in a police state.  You don't raise a lot of heck in Nazi Germany.  You don't go around screaming to people to supervise these kids better because you don't scream at anybody in that type of a situation. ... Elizabeth Welker writes letter to Gertrud Schultz-Klink and expresses some worries about that.  A couple of Klink's assistants get in touch with her and agree to let her tour some youth camps, so she can see for herself the level of discipline enforced, and level of supervision at youth camps.  One of these trips, Shultz-Klink is in the limousine with Adolph Hitler because Adolph Hitler is going out to see the camps himself.  Shultz-Klink gets picked up, and she is in the same car with Hitler.  They go out there and they inspect this camp.  There were a couple of other times under Schultz-Klink's underlings came out at took her to other took to other youth meetings.  In the end Elizabeth Welker is just absolutely bamboozled, and believes German adolescent girls are the best teenage girls in world, and they are being led better than anybody else, certainly a lot better than our permissive situation in the United States. Welker writes an article on the moral status of German girls in the Improvement Era!  Check out our conversation….. https://youtu.be/i_YYBZQ0FM0 [paypal-donation]

[paypal-donation] As Hitler came to power in Germany, how did the LDS Church respond?  In our next conversation, we'll talk to Dr. David Nelson and we'll talk specifically about how J Reuben Clark of the First Presidency dealt with Jews in Hitler's Germany.  It wasn't a pretty picture.  Nelson describes the political environment Clark grew up around. David:  Yes, well J. Reuben Clark, you're right.  He was pretty much against war to start off with because the Republicans in his period of time were isolationist.  They were very much against the League of Nations[1] after World War I and J. Reuben Clark was an old-style Republican.  But yes J. Reuben Clark was a xenophobe, a nativist, and an anti-Semite. He had a long government career during Republican administrations and then he was in private practice as a lawyer when Woodrow Wilson served eight years as a Democrat as president after [Teddy] Roosevelt up until his [Roosevelt's] death in 1921.  J. Reuben Clark was primarily a nativist and xenophobe, and he became, because of his experiences in the eastern United States, he became an anti-Semite.  When J. Reuben Clark gave the valedictory address at the University of Utah in 1898, the whole thing was filled with anti-immigrant sentiment. Now this was not just J. Reuben Clark.  One of the bad things about American progressivism at the time, and don't think of progressivism back then as progressive is used as the word today.  There were good things in progressivism, but there was a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment in progressivism.  Immigrants are coming over, they're taking our jobs away from us and all that. Find out what Clark said!  We'll also talk about how he responded to both Jewish and non-Jewish immigration requests to the United States.  Check out our conversation….. https://youtu.be/K3IyHa7ZAKw [paypal-donation] [1] This was a forerunner of the United Nations and was proposed by U.S. President Woodrow Wilson as a reaction to World War I.