Podcasts about immigrants

Bret Baier is the host of 'Special Report' on Fox News ChannelBret Baier talks:-Snow in DC-The 'shock and awe" when President Trump takes office-What happens on DAY ONE-The executive orders -Will he cover the President differently this time around-Is Senator John Fetterman moving to the middle-How does President Trump unify the United States   To subscribe to The Pete McMurray Show Podcast just click here

Canadian journalist Nora Loreto reads the latest headlines for Thursday, January 9, 2025.TRNN has partnered with Loreto to syndicate and share her daily news digest with our audience. Tune in every morning to the TRNN podcast feed to hear the latest important news stories from Canada and worldwide.Find more headlines from Nora at Sandy & Nora Talk Politics podcast feed.Help us continue producing radically independent news and in-depth analysis by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer.Sign up for our newsletterLike us on FacebookFollow us on TwitterDonate to support this podcast

Diverse Voices Book Review contributor Amanda Moore interviewed Rafael A. Martinez, author of Illegalized: Undocumented Youth Movements in the United States. Martinez, an assistant professor at Arizona State University, writes a thought-provoking narrative about the obstacles that illegal immigrants face in the United States. By examining various case studies about sanctuary locations, detention centers, and the plight of immigrant families, readers are able to discover how the undocumented youth attempt to fight for immigrant rights through the use of social media, television, and other forms of media publicity. You can read more about this book at rafaelamartinez.com. Diverse Voices Book Review Social Media: Facebook - @diversevoicesbookreview Instagram - @diverse_voices_book_review Twitter - @diversebookshay Email: hbh@diversevoicesbookreview.com 

Cindy Romero brought the national spotlight to Aurora after Venzuelean gang members of Tren de Aragua forced her and her husband from their apartment. She joins Dan to express her support for the city of Aurora suing the city of Denver over the mass infiltration of illegals across city limits without notifying the mayor or city manager of Aurora.Kevin from Boulder had opened Dan's eyes to the eye-opening lyrics of 'Brown Sugar' by the Rolling Stones, but adamantly refuses credit for the favor.

Bill Allen - Thursday, January 9, 2025

The boys swim against the tide and once again stand as the only people who support immigrants. Also, they cover recent acts of terror on US soil, talk about Congress news, and run through some notable anti-trans laws in Ohio. If you enjoy the show make sure to check out the Patreon for early access to episodes, and don't forget to follow us on our other social media and leave a 5-star review on Apple! Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/headintheofficepod HITO MERCH: https://headintheoffice.com/  Get 15% off Ground News: https://check.ground.news/headintheoffice  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4iJ-UcnRxYnaYsX_SNjFJQ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headintheoffice?lang=en Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/headintheoffice/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/headintheoffice Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/headintheoffice.bsky.social  Discord: https://discord.gg/hito  Collab inquiries: headintheofficepod@gmail.com Seen on this episode: Presidential Citizen's Medal / Medal of Freedom Recipients - https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/02/president-biden-announces-recipients-of-the-presidential-citizens-medal/  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/04/president-biden-announces-recipients-of-the-presidential-medal-of-freedom-3/  H1B visas research - https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/h1b-visa-program-fact-sheet  H1B visa discourse - https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/12/30/the-heated-debate-over-h-1b-visas-understanding-both-sides/  https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-we-need-major-reforms-in-the-h-1b-program/  New Orleans attack - https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/01/us/shamsud-din-jabbar-suspect-new-orleans-attack/index.html  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-orleans-attack-transmitter-explosive-devices-fire-airbnb-fbi-rcna186223  Las Vegas Cybertruck explosion -  https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/02/us/matthew-alan-livelsberger-vegas-cybertruck-explosion/index.html  Ohio anti trans legislation - https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/01/24/ohio-senate-overrides-dewine-vetoes-on-trans-youth-gender-affirming-care-and-local-tobacco-bans/ Gerry Connolly -  https://newrepublic.com/post/189757/74-year-old-democrat-connolly-defense-race-aoc  Elon Musk endorses the far right in Germany - https://www.dw.com/en/german-election-why-elon-musk-is-promoting-the-far-right-afd/a-71186763 Johnson wins speakership -  https://apnews.com/article/mike-johnson-speaker-vote-house-freedom-caucus-be61b59070a468862119799e847ae8d8 Schumer backs Wikler -  https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/02/schumer-wikler-dnc-chair-00196199 https://www.commondreams.org/news/candidates-for-dnc Credit for the intro music goes to CHRISADAMGAMING on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyvwacFNPxc

The Bay Area is home to thousands of people with Temporary Protected Status, or TPS. Immigrants with TPS are provided a temporary shield from deportation and a work permit as a result of upheaval in their home countries. But as Donald Trump prepares to enter his second term, many fear deportation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the first hour of "Connections with Evan Dawson" on 1/8/25, Syrian immigrants discuss what's next for their home country after the collapse of the Assad regime.

This empowering book blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded techniques to equip readers with the tools needed to promote self-reflection, personal growth, and diasporic healing. Asian Americans represent the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States, yet few books capture how historical events, immigration experiences, cultural values, and unhelpful generational patterns contribute to this group's thoughts, attitudes, and actions in ways that impact relationships, well-being, and psychological health. In Patterns That Remain: A Guide to Healing for Asian Children of Immigrants (Oxford University Press, 2025), Dr. Stacey Diane Arañez Litam empowers readers to heal from diasporic wounds and become people, partners, and parents who embody abundance mentalities grounded in joy, balance, and gratitude. This unique book combines complex and nuanced facets of Asian American history, research, and therapeutic modalities in ways that validate Asian American worldviews and promote a deep sense of universality and community. Each chapter addresses culturally relevant topics among Asian Americans and children of Asian immigrants and is informed by academic research in addition to author-conducted interviews with diverse Asian American community members and thought leaders. The book effortlessly blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded perspectives to provide an inspirational, validating, and practical framework toward healing. Informed by Litam's lived experiences as a Filipina and Chinese immigrant as well as by her professional identities as a professor, researcher, and mental health clinician, Patterns That Remain provides the foundation for timely conversations and centers the importance of healing, personal growth, and unlocking the power behind our stories. Dr. Stacey Diane Leetam is an Associate Professor of Counselor Education, a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor, as well as a diplomate and clinical sexologist with the American Board of Sexology. Dr. Litam is a member of the Forbes Health Advisory Board, an Advisory Council Chair for the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) Minority Fellowship Program, and was named one of Crain's Cleveland 40 Under 40 in 2023. Dr. Litam has published over 50 academic peer-reviewed papers and book chapters and facilitated hundreds of workshops and trainings. Her work has resulted in a total of 15 national and 12 regional/state awards. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work on the impact of COVID-19 related discrimination on the mental health and wellbeing of disaggregated AAPI communities and communities of color with 17 publications archived in the World Health Organization's Global Database on COVID-19 literature. Dr. Litam is a keynote speaker, racial equity strategist, and content expert on topics related to mental health, sexual wellbeing, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB), as well as Asian American and Pacific Islander concerns. She regularly serves as a content expert on platforms such as Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), and media outlets. Additionally, she has been featured in the White House, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), Discovery Magazine, Dutch BBC, Psychology Today, National Institutes of Health, Mental Health Academy, The Daily Mail, The Filipino Channel, as well as in podcasts, documentaries, and news outlets. Her past partners include Fortune 500 Companies, professional sports teams, and federal level politicians. Dr. Litam is an immigrant and identifies as a Chinese and Filipina American woman. Visit Dr. Litam's website here and find information on her upcoming book tour here Follow her on Instagram @drstaceyalitam Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is Assistant Editor at the New Books Network Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

This empowering book blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded techniques to equip readers with the tools needed to promote self-reflection, personal growth, and diasporic healing. Asian Americans represent the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States, yet few books capture how historical events, immigration experiences, cultural values, and unhelpful generational patterns contribute to this group's thoughts, attitudes, and actions in ways that impact relationships, well-being, and psychological health. In Patterns That Remain: A Guide to Healing for Asian Children of Immigrants (Oxford University Press, 2025), Dr. Stacey Diane Arañez Litam empowers readers to heal from diasporic wounds and become people, partners, and parents who embody abundance mentalities grounded in joy, balance, and gratitude. This unique book combines complex and nuanced facets of Asian American history, research, and therapeutic modalities in ways that validate Asian American worldviews and promote a deep sense of universality and community. Each chapter addresses culturally relevant topics among Asian Americans and children of Asian immigrants and is informed by academic research in addition to author-conducted interviews with diverse Asian American community members and thought leaders. The book effortlessly blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded perspectives to provide an inspirational, validating, and practical framework toward healing. Informed by Litam's lived experiences as a Filipina and Chinese immigrant as well as by her professional identities as a professor, researcher, and mental health clinician, Patterns That Remain provides the foundation for timely conversations and centers the importance of healing, personal growth, and unlocking the power behind our stories. Dr. Stacey Diane Leetam is an Associate Professor of Counselor Education, a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor, as well as a diplomate and clinical sexologist with the American Board of Sexology. Dr. Litam is a member of the Forbes Health Advisory Board, an Advisory Council Chair for the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) Minority Fellowship Program, and was named one of Crain's Cleveland 40 Under 40 in 2023. Dr. Litam has published over 50 academic peer-reviewed papers and book chapters and facilitated hundreds of workshops and trainings. Her work has resulted in a total of 15 national and 12 regional/state awards. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work on the impact of COVID-19 related discrimination on the mental health and wellbeing of disaggregated AAPI communities and communities of color with 17 publications archived in the World Health Organization's Global Database on COVID-19 literature. Dr. Litam is a keynote speaker, racial equity strategist, and content expert on topics related to mental health, sexual wellbeing, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB), as well as Asian American and Pacific Islander concerns. She regularly serves as a content expert on platforms such as Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), and media outlets. Additionally, she has been featured in the White House, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), Discovery Magazine, Dutch BBC, Psychology Today, National Institutes of Health, Mental Health Academy, The Daily Mail, The Filipino Channel, as well as in podcasts, documentaries, and news outlets. Her past partners include Fortune 500 Companies, professional sports teams, and federal level politicians. Dr. Litam is an immigrant and identifies as a Chinese and Filipina American woman. Visit Dr. Litam's website here and find information on her upcoming book tour here Follow her on Instagram @drstaceyalitam Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is Assistant Editor at the New Books Network Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/asian-american-studies

This empowering book blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded techniques to equip readers with the tools needed to promote self-reflection, personal growth, and diasporic healing. Asian Americans represent the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States, yet few books capture how historical events, immigration experiences, cultural values, and unhelpful generational patterns contribute to this group's thoughts, attitudes, and actions in ways that impact relationships, well-being, and psychological health. In Patterns That Remain: A Guide to Healing for Asian Children of Immigrants (Oxford University Press, 2025), Dr. Stacey Diane Arañez Litam empowers readers to heal from diasporic wounds and become people, partners, and parents who embody abundance mentalities grounded in joy, balance, and gratitude. This unique book combines complex and nuanced facets of Asian American history, research, and therapeutic modalities in ways that validate Asian American worldviews and promote a deep sense of universality and community. Each chapter addresses culturally relevant topics among Asian Americans and children of Asian immigrants and is informed by academic research in addition to author-conducted interviews with diverse Asian American community members and thought leaders. The book effortlessly blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded perspectives to provide an inspirational, validating, and practical framework toward healing. Informed by Litam's lived experiences as a Filipina and Chinese immigrant as well as by her professional identities as a professor, researcher, and mental health clinician, Patterns That Remain provides the foundation for timely conversations and centers the importance of healing, personal growth, and unlocking the power behind our stories. Dr. Stacey Diane Leetam is an Associate Professor of Counselor Education, a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor, as well as a diplomate and clinical sexologist with the American Board of Sexology. Dr. Litam is a member of the Forbes Health Advisory Board, an Advisory Council Chair for the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) Minority Fellowship Program, and was named one of Crain's Cleveland 40 Under 40 in 2023. Dr. Litam has published over 50 academic peer-reviewed papers and book chapters and facilitated hundreds of workshops and trainings. Her work has resulted in a total of 15 national and 12 regional/state awards. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work on the impact of COVID-19 related discrimination on the mental health and wellbeing of disaggregated AAPI communities and communities of color with 17 publications archived in the World Health Organization's Global Database on COVID-19 literature. Dr. Litam is a keynote speaker, racial equity strategist, and content expert on topics related to mental health, sexual wellbeing, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB), as well as Asian American and Pacific Islander concerns. She regularly serves as a content expert on platforms such as Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), and media outlets. Additionally, she has been featured in the White House, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), Discovery Magazine, Dutch BBC, Psychology Today, National Institutes of Health, Mental Health Academy, The Daily Mail, The Filipino Channel, as well as in podcasts, documentaries, and news outlets. Her past partners include Fortune 500 Companies, professional sports teams, and federal level politicians. Dr. Litam is an immigrant and identifies as a Chinese and Filipina American woman. Visit Dr. Litam's website here and find information on her upcoming book tour here Follow her on Instagram @drstaceyalitam Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is Assistant Editor at the New Books Network Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

This empowering book blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded techniques to equip readers with the tools needed to promote self-reflection, personal growth, and diasporic healing. Asian Americans represent the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States, yet few books capture how historical events, immigration experiences, cultural values, and unhelpful generational patterns contribute to this group's thoughts, attitudes, and actions in ways that impact relationships, well-being, and psychological health. In Patterns That Remain: A Guide to Healing for Asian Children of Immigrants (Oxford University Press, 2025), Dr. Stacey Diane Arañez Litam empowers readers to heal from diasporic wounds and become people, partners, and parents who embody abundance mentalities grounded in joy, balance, and gratitude. This unique book combines complex and nuanced facets of Asian American history, research, and therapeutic modalities in ways that validate Asian American worldviews and promote a deep sense of universality and community. Each chapter addresses culturally relevant topics among Asian Americans and children of Asian immigrants and is informed by academic research in addition to author-conducted interviews with diverse Asian American community members and thought leaders. The book effortlessly blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded perspectives to provide an inspirational, validating, and practical framework toward healing. Informed by Litam's lived experiences as a Filipina and Chinese immigrant as well as by her professional identities as a professor, researcher, and mental health clinician, Patterns That Remain provides the foundation for timely conversations and centers the importance of healing, personal growth, and unlocking the power behind our stories. Dr. Stacey Diane Leetam is an Associate Professor of Counselor Education, a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor, as well as a diplomate and clinical sexologist with the American Board of Sexology. Dr. Litam is a member of the Forbes Health Advisory Board, an Advisory Council Chair for the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) Minority Fellowship Program, and was named one of Crain's Cleveland 40 Under 40 in 2023. Dr. Litam has published over 50 academic peer-reviewed papers and book chapters and facilitated hundreds of workshops and trainings. Her work has resulted in a total of 15 national and 12 regional/state awards. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work on the impact of COVID-19 related discrimination on the mental health and wellbeing of disaggregated AAPI communities and communities of color with 17 publications archived in the World Health Organization's Global Database on COVID-19 literature. Dr. Litam is a keynote speaker, racial equity strategist, and content expert on topics related to mental health, sexual wellbeing, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB), as well as Asian American and Pacific Islander concerns. She regularly serves as a content expert on platforms such as Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), and media outlets. Additionally, she has been featured in the White House, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), Discovery Magazine, Dutch BBC, Psychology Today, National Institutes of Health, Mental Health Academy, The Daily Mail, The Filipino Channel, as well as in podcasts, documentaries, and news outlets. Her past partners include Fortune 500 Companies, professional sports teams, and federal level politicians. Dr. Litam is an immigrant and identifies as a Chinese and Filipina American woman. Visit Dr. Litam's website here and find information on her upcoming book tour here Follow her on Instagram @drstaceyalitam Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is Assistant Editor at the New Books Network Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

This empowering book blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded techniques to equip readers with the tools needed to promote self-reflection, personal growth, and diasporic healing. Asian Americans represent the fastest growing ethnic group in the United States, yet few books capture how historical events, immigration experiences, cultural values, and unhelpful generational patterns contribute to this group's thoughts, attitudes, and actions in ways that impact relationships, well-being, and psychological health. In Patterns That Remain: A Guide to Healing for Asian Children of Immigrants (Oxford University Press, 2025), Dr. Stacey Diane Arañez Litam empowers readers to heal from diasporic wounds and become people, partners, and parents who embody abundance mentalities grounded in joy, balance, and gratitude. This unique book combines complex and nuanced facets of Asian American history, research, and therapeutic modalities in ways that validate Asian American worldviews and promote a deep sense of universality and community. Each chapter addresses culturally relevant topics among Asian Americans and children of Asian immigrants and is informed by academic research in addition to author-conducted interviews with diverse Asian American community members and thought leaders. The book effortlessly blends history, storytelling, and culturally grounded perspectives to provide an inspirational, validating, and practical framework toward healing. Informed by Litam's lived experiences as a Filipina and Chinese immigrant as well as by her professional identities as a professor, researcher, and mental health clinician, Patterns That Remain provides the foundation for timely conversations and centers the importance of healing, personal growth, and unlocking the power behind our stories. Dr. Stacey Diane Leetam is an Associate Professor of Counselor Education, a licensed professional clinical counselor and supervisor, as well as a diplomate and clinical sexologist with the American Board of Sexology. Dr. Litam is a member of the Forbes Health Advisory Board, an Advisory Council Chair for the National Board for Certified Counselors (NBCC) Minority Fellowship Program, and was named one of Crain's Cleveland 40 Under 40 in 2023. Dr. Litam has published over 50 academic peer-reviewed papers and book chapters and facilitated hundreds of workshops and trainings. Her work has resulted in a total of 15 national and 12 regional/state awards. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work on the impact of COVID-19 related discrimination on the mental health and wellbeing of disaggregated AAPI communities and communities of color with 17 publications archived in the World Health Organization's Global Database on COVID-19 literature. Dr. Litam is a keynote speaker, racial equity strategist, and content expert on topics related to mental health, sexual wellbeing, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB), as well as Asian American and Pacific Islander concerns. She regularly serves as a content expert on platforms such as Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), and media outlets. Additionally, she has been featured in the White House, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), Forbes Health, National Public Radio (NPR), Discovery Magazine, Dutch BBC, Psychology Today, National Institutes of Health, Mental Health Academy, The Daily Mail, The Filipino Channel, as well as in podcasts, documentaries, and news outlets. Her past partners include Fortune 500 Companies, professional sports teams, and federal level politicians. Dr. Litam is an immigrant and identifies as a Chinese and Filipina American woman. Visit Dr. Litam's website here and find information on her upcoming book tour here Follow her on Instagram @drstaceyalitam Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is Assistant Editor at the New Books Network

Fox News promoted a false narrative about the terrorist attack in New Orleans on New Year's Day. Even after the network issued a retraction hosts and guests alike kept insinuating that immigration played a role in the attack. The decades suspect was an American citizens and Army veteran not a foreign born extremist. I break everything down in a detailed timeline to show exactly how Fox wouldn't let truth get in the way of its agenda. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit decodingfoxnews.substack.com/subscribe

The Giving Grove, a Kansas City nonprofit that works with residents of under-resourced communities to grow orchards, will translate their educational gardening materials into 12 different languages. Plus: Midwest scientists and enthusiasts are working to preserve and popularize heirloom varieties of collard greens.

My daughter made a statement that surprised all the immigrants at Christmas dinner in our home. Here is my answer to her statement that immigrants are too hopeful about America. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://politicsdoneright.com/newsletter Purchase our Books: As I See It: https://amzn.to/3XpvW5o How To Make America Utopia: https://amzn.to/3VKVFnG It's Worth It: https://amzn.to/3VFByXP Lose Weight And Be Fit Now: https://amzn.to/3xiQK3K Tribulations of an Afro-Latino Caribbean man: https://amzn.to/4c09rbE

Despite its reputation among many on the political left, the United States has welcomed more immigrants than any other nation in history. Today, the U.S. is home to more immigrants than any other country in the world. Even amid a heated political battle over the future of immigration, it's undeniable that a core part of America's national identity is its image as “a nation of immigrants.” Many Americans proudly trace their ancestry to those who migrated to the U.S. in pursuit of the American Dream. Most take pride in knowing that people around the world dream of building a life in the USA. But immigration in the U.S. has always been complicated. Today, the country is also home to the largest population of unlawful migrants on Earth. In recent years, the U.S. southern border with Mexico has been cited as one of the most porous and chaotic in the world. Additionally, the U.S. has the most backlogged immigration courts globally. Our episode today examines how the U.S. immigration system became so stubbornly, frustratingly, and dangerously chaotic—from legal loopholes exploited by cartels to the failed legislation of the 1990s aimed at curbing illegal migration, and from the enduring challenges of enforcement to the growing calls for building a wall and mass deportations. Our guests are David Leonhardt, Senior Writer for The New York Times and author of Ours Was a Shining Future, and John Sandweg, former head of ICE under President Barack Obama. As always, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at hello@reflector.show. Thank you to our sponsor Ground News. You can visit them here to learn more: GROUND.NEWS

On today's show we speak with Marisa Almor with East Bay Sanctuary Covenant about what their organization is doing to support immigrants as we move into another US Trump presidency, anticipating anti-immigrant legislation and deportation regime. Marisa Almor speaks about two upcoming events at La Peña Cultural Center – the first on January 12, arming allies with reliable information about how to protect sanctuary communities from federal targeting. Then, on January 15th, East Bay Sanctuary Covenant will be leading a discussion and a few days later on January 19th, a workshop, aimed at immigrant community members who need assistance in clarifying their immigration status (there will be legal consultation available in different languages). Learn more about East Bay Sanctuary Covenant: https://eastbaysanctuary.org/ — Subscribe to this podcast: https://plinkhq.com/i/1637968343?to=page Get in touch: lawanddisorder@kpfa.org Follow us on socials @LawAndDis: https://twitter.com/LawAndDis; https://www.instagram.com/lawanddis/   The post Supporting Immigrants in Berkeley as Trump Takes Power w/ East Bay Sanctuary Covenant appeared first on KPFA.

If you're an eldest daughter of immigrants – it's not the lack of hard work, drive, or ambition that's going to cap your next level of success. You know what will? Martyrdom.   In this episode, I share why martyrdom gave you early success, but it won't be the thing that sustains it.    Listen in as I talk about: ✔️How your childhood shaped you to be the good, strong, responsible person you are ✔️And also how it's starting to hold you back ✔️Fear of being too successful because you might “leave them behind” ✔️Why tapping into DESIRE is the first step in melting the martyr persona  ✔️How mastering this ONE SKILL is the key to expanding into that next level   For the ambitious Healers, Leaders, and Trailblazers desiring the next level of success without the self-sacrifice…   This is for YOU!   Learn how to transcend the Martyr persona, and ascend into your next season of guilt-free success!   Re-Wilding: The Mastermind is now enrolling for Feb 2025 start: https://soulflow.co/rewilding _________________________     Ways to work with me: Enroll now for Re-wilding The Mastermind! New cohort starts February 2025: https://soulflow.co/rewilding HABITAT: Grow a wildly sustainable business that feels like home: https://soulflow.co/habitat Other ways to work with me: http://soulflow.co/offerings Connect with me Instagram @soulflowco Visit my website: https://soulflow.co  Free but EPIC Resources Kickstart your business. What's your Soul Biz Magic? Take my quiz and find out!: https://soulflow.co/magic-quiz2 Play Bigger. Watch my Free Masterclass: How I Created my $70k Launch: https://soulflowco.myflodesk.com/70kmasterclass Scale Your Business. Watch my Free Masterclass: How to Structure Your Healing or Coaching Business for Sustainable $10k Months: http://soulflow.co/10k-masterclass-sign-up Unleash Your Wild Woman. Watch my Free Masterclass: Breaking Chains: https://royal-night-984.myflodesk.com/  

Can California keep ICE away from schools? Lawmakers want to try as crackdown looms. Airlines are going premium... will cheap tickets be harder to find?  Do They Have a Case' with Wayne Resnick.

On this episode of Charlotte Talks, a look at what the promise of the largest deportation in American history may mean for those singled out by the incoming Trump administration.

My daughter's Xmas dinner comment: Why do immigrants at this table have the most faith in America? Why Trump/MAGA/Republican policies win voters you least expect. GOP to destroy working class. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://politicsdoneright.com/newsletter Purchase our Books: As I See It: https://amzn.to/3XpvW5o How To Make America Utopia: https://amzn.to/3VKVFnG It's Worth It: https://amzn.to/3VFByXP Lose Weight And Be Fit Now: https://amzn.to/3xiQK3K Tribulations of an Afro-Latino Caribbean man: https://amzn.to/4c09rbE

Join me for my next live video in the app* David Campt & Karin Tamerius on how to speak to the other side: Join David Campt and Karin Tamerius as they share insights on fostering compassionate, effective dialogues across political divides, particularly on race, to create a more unified and understanding society. [More]* William Bronston, Universal Healthcare Activist, Author of Public Hostage Public Ransom: Dr. William Bronston founded the Student Health Organization in 1964, a nationwide graduate health science student movement dedicated to promoting universal health care as a human right, overcoming racism, sexism, war, poverty, and physician elitism in the health system as the greatest challenges facing society. He is the author of the book, “Public Hostage Public Ransom: Ending Institutional America.” [More]* Taking on Musk, Sanders Says Corporate Abuse of H-1B Visa Program Must End: “We need an economy that works for all, not just the few. And one important way forward in that direction is to bring about major reforms in the H-1B program.” [More] To hear more, visit egberto.substack.com

Bill Allen - Saturday, January 4, 2025

The complete story of American imperialism is missing from our history books. On this week's On the Media, how the United States worked to capture territory and expand power, while preaching democracy and freedom. [01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with historian Daniel Immerwahr, on the hidden history of the United States empire. For Americans, empire often means economic and military power abroad, or CIA coups in Central America–not British-style imperialism. But the American empire was — and in some ways continues to be — a lot closer than most people realize. Immerwahr explains the role of guano — bird poop — in launching America's overseas empire, and the legal, political and social clashes that ensued.[17:57] Host Brooke Gladstone continues her conversation with historian Daniel Immerwahr, exploring why, at the dawn of the last century, the arguments over imperialism didn't end with poets like Rudyard Kipling and writers like Mark Twain. How should the adolescent U.S., big-headed about its democratic values, grapple with capturing territory? Immerwahr explains how this vital debate blazed across America's consciousness like a comet, then vanished just as quickly.[34:47] Host Brooke Gladstone and historian Daniel Immerwahr conclude their conversation, discussing how, after World War II, global anti-colonial sentiment (combined with less dependence on natural resources) led to a shrinking of America's physical empire. But the American empire didn't disappear — it merely changed form. This originally aired in our April 5, 2019 program, “Empire State of Mind.”Further reading/listening/watching:How To Hide An Empire: A History of the Greater United States, by Daniel Immerwahr On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

-- On the Show: -- Despite continued evidence to the contrary, Republican elected officials continue to blame 'the border' for the New Orleans New Year's Eve attack carried out by an American citizen -- CNN host Jim Acosta calls out his guest for defending Trump blaming foreign criminals for the New Orleans attack, but his guest simply keeps lying -- It turns out that the Las Vegas Cybertruck bomber was a "big" supporter of Donald Trump's -- Elon Musk threatens to sue media outlets for their reporting of the Cybertruck bombing at Donald Trump's hotel in Las Vegas -- Donald Trump explodes in a post-frenzy in the middle of the night -- MAGA civil war grows as Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert is now attacking Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy -- David is criticized because his left hand was in his pocket in his Oval Office picture with President Joe Biden -- The first Friday Feedback of 2025 -- On the Bonus Show: Patrick Bet-David community noted over MLM scheme, and much more...

After the horrible attacks in New Orleans and Las Vegas, Donald Trump and his MAGA base used the events to further their anti-immigrant agenda. Steve Schmidt looks at the reaction on the right and explains why their immigrant narrative doesn't work for these attacks. Subscribe for more and follow me here: Substack: https://steveschmidt.substack.com/subscribe Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/thewarningses.bsky.social Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SteveSchmidtSES/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thewarningses Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewarningses/ X: https://x.com/SteveSchmidtSES

There is a surge of right-wing populism across the world and, of course, in India. Much of it has to do with fear – of change, of immigrants, of the shrinking number of jobs, of being surpassed by groups that were historically lower on the socioeconomic order, of once mighty economies slowing, of your powerful nation now being challenged by those growing richer… Fear provides the underlying context of the political narrative. It is the human condition that the nationalism offered by the populist right provides a false but compelling answer to. The more fearful a people of an uncertain, uncharted future, the better it is for right-wing populist parties. All Indians Matter attempts to analyse this over a three-episode series. In Episode 1, we look at Europe and the changing political conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Lincoln-based group is asking immigrants and refugees what their experiences are like coming to the state. Here's how those survey results will be used.

Your Nightly Prayer

January 1, 1892. 17-year-old Annie Malone becomes the first immigrant to enter the United States through a new immigration station on Ellis Island. This episode originally aired in 2024.Support the show! Join Into History for ad-free listening and more.History Daily is a co-production of Airship and Noiser.Go to HistoryDaily.com for more history, daily.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this TALKS Episode, Tim engages with scholars Dr. Sergio Gonzalez and Dr. Lloyd Barba to discuss the Sanctuary Movement and its historical and contemporary significance in the context of immigration. They explore the Christian obligation to welcome immigrants, the political dynamics surrounding immigration policy, and the importance of recognizing the humanity of immigrants amidst prevalent anti-immigrant narratives. The conversation highlights the ongoing relevance of the Sanctuary Movement and the need for a compassionate response to those seeking refuge. Chapters 02:22 Meet the Scholars: Sergio Gonzalez and Lloyd Barba 08:28 Understanding the Sanctuary Movement 15:33 The Ongoing Relevance of the Sanctuary Movement 27:24 Human Dignity and the Immigrant Experience 35:21 The Role of Propaganda in Immigration Narratives 40:22 The Vicious Cycle of Undocumented Labor 46:35 Sanctuary Movement: Protecting Immigrants 52:12 Speculations on Future Immigration Policies Lloyd & Sergio's Podcast | Sanctuary: On the Border Between Church and State _______________________________ If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you've been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We've built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Ford News, Johnathan, and Brian start the show by talking about MAGA infighting about foreign workers in the United States using the H1B Visa program to work in the States.  The Tech Bros, like Elon, love this rule, but MAGA will MAGA and be appalled that foreigners may be better at a job than Americans. The Saga continues....In segment two, the guys talk about Donald Trump having delusional thoughts about buying Greenland (again), making Canada the 51st state, and possibly conducting a light invasion of Mexico. And....Donald Trump is pushing for the United States to regain control of the Panama Canal. The Ford Fact Check is all about illegal immigration. Johnathan has all of the facts and data! LINKS Trump, Panama, Greenland, Canada https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/29/trump-greenland-panama-china-threatshttps://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen-cardin-trumps-tough-talk-panama-canal-push/story?id=117170338Panama's founding and historyhttps://1997-2001.state.gov/regions/wha/panama/991206_faqs.htmlMusk and Ramaswamy H-B1 Visa https://www.cbsnews.com/news/musk-vivek-ramaswamy-h1b-visa-maga-immigration-what-to-know/Trump backs H-1B visas, aligning with Musk on immigrationhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/12/28/trump-h1b-musk-immigration-debate/https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyv7gxp02yoFord Fact check. US Bureau of Labor statistics 7.7 million open jobs. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.nr0.htmCurrent US birth rate https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/20240525.htmhttps://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/birth-rate#:~:text=The%20birth%20rate%20for%20U.S.,a%200.09%25%20increase%20from%202020.https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/

In this week's Texas Border Watch, Jordan Elder looks into how many miles of border wall have been completed in the last few years and the hurdles Texas faces in completing the project. We'll also show you the new billboards Gov. Greg Abbott is rolling out in other countries to deter illegal immigration. Meanwhile, Canada is investing $1.3 billion to bolster border security amid tariff threats.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Over the Christmas holiday, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy clashed with MAGA purists over America's H-1B visas program. Musk and company say the program is necessary to fill voids created by America's slacker culture. Critics say companies abuse it to get cheap labor and avoid hiring qualified American workers. Senior editor for The New American ... The post How Immigrants Abuse the H-1B Visa Program appeared first on The New American.

It turns out MAGA doesn't want to deport all immigrants. Or build a wall to keep all immigrants out. Oh, no, it turns out that President Musk and his sidekick Donny like “smart” immigrants. Cause they think Americans—especially the ones who voted for them—are too dumb to be workers in the Tech Bro universe. You were duped again, MAGA voters. Rummana Hussain tries to make sense of it all. Rummana is an editorial writer and columnist for the Sun-Times. Her views are her own.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Original publish date March 2, 2021 This week we talk with Jeff Richardson about the 3R Fund for Immigrants emergency relief campaign and the Esperanza Center. https://www.gofundme.com/f/3r-fund-for-immigrants-emergency-relief-campaign https://www.esperanzanky.org/  Hosted by Roberto Henriquez and Amy Ferguson

Michael Monks joins Wayne Resnick who is filling in for Bill all week for Handel on the News. Holiday travelers are facing flight cancellations as severe storms roll into the South. Report: California Gov. Newsom's team considering ways to help illegal immigrants ahead of second Trump admin. South Korea impeaches acting President Han Duck-soo. Lean-looking Elon Musk reveals he's taking Mounjaro for weight loss in festive ‘Ozempic Santa' post.

With President-elect Donald Trump returning to the White House next month, some are worried their protected status could soon end. Trump has vowed a massive deportation campaign and sharp immigration restrictions, including slashing the TPS program, as he tried to do during his first term at the White House. Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Former Alderman Michael Murphy retirement, deportation impact on dairy farming, students react to DEI cuts, the future of MPM's A Tribute to Survival exhibit.

Terrell County is a remote area 120 miles west of Del Rio where Sheriff Thaddeus Cleveland and his small team work tirelessly to secure over 2,400 square miles of rugged terrain. As the “Smuggler's Moon” brings increased border activity, we witness firsthand the challenges law enforcement faces, from tracking migrants left by coyotes to combating limited resources. Locals, like café owner Jake Harper, share how border security impacts their lives. Sheriff Cleveland reflects on decades of struggle and his hopes for change as President-elect Trump prepares to take office.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Le Canada accueille plus de 400 000 personnes chaque année, dont la majorité fait l'objet d'une longue sélection. Une étude du Conference Board, un organisme qui s'intéresse aux politiques publiques, montre qu'une proportion importante de ces immigrants repartent au bout de quelques années. Une réalité particulièrement prononcée chez les francophones, dont jusqu'à un tiers quitteraient le pays. Avec notre correspondante au QuébecInstallés dans la ville de Québec depuis 4 ans, Aurélie et son conjoint rentrent en France avant la fin de l'année avec leur bébé pour se rapprocher de leur famille. Parmi les raisons du retour, la jeune femme, rencontrée dans un café, évoque aussi l'augmentation du coût de la vie, dans sa patrie d'adoption. « Je note le montant de nos achats d'épicerie. Ca a vraiment beaucoup augmenté depuis qu'on est là. Tout coute très cher. Le loyer aussi a augmenté et est cher, à moins de se retrouver en sous-sol ou en demi sous-sol. Quand on vient de la France, on se dit qu'on aura un meilleur salaire donc un meilleur niveau de vie. En l'occurrence, comme le cout de la vie est plus élevé, on n'a pas le même niveau de vie. C'est un système très capitaliste ici. J'ai l'impression de toujours mettre la main à la carte », estime-t-elle.À lire aussiCanada: l'immigration, au cœur des tensions avec le Québec Sur les réseaux sociaux, plusieurs discutent également de la tendance du Québec et du Canada à se vanter un peu trop du caractère accueillant du pays. Autour d'un thé, Alexandra parle des difficiles liens d'amitié avec les Québécois. La Française songe à repartir avec sa famille, faute de se sentir intégrée au bout de 8 ans. « Ils sont très gentils.. Ça ne va pas aller plus loin. On ne nous fait pas sentir qu'on est chez nous comme québécois. On sera toujours des Français, on se sent seul parfois. On a du mal à s'insérer, s'intégrer dans la culture québécoise et faire toujours des efforts, à la longue ça fatigue », témoigne-t-elle.Les efforts dont parle la mère de famille concerne aussi ceux déployés pour se conformer aux exigences des employeurs. Dans son bureau au 5è étage de l'Université Laval, la géographe Adèle Garnier énumère les obstacles professionnels qu'affrontent les immigrants, même après plusieurs années au Canada. « Une des barrières, c'est la reconnaissance des compétences. Imaginons que vous êtes psychologue, avocate ou ingénieure, ça demande beaucoup d'efforts au Canada de rester. Les démarches à faire pour être medecin par exemple c'est difficile. Les gens vont aller chercher ailleurs », analyse l'experte.À lire aussiLe Canada procède à un tour de vis sur ses règles en matière d'immigrationLes statistiques montrent que les personnes davantage qualifiées ont tendance à quitter le Canada. Un signal d'alarme selon la chercheuse qui invite les autorités à déployer plus de moyens pour les retenir et leur faire une place.

Gospel of the Kingdom; God-ordained government; Learning from our mistakes; Dominion; World governments; Limiting government power; Business practices; Bias; Corruption; Ignorance of governance; Righteousness of God; Hate; Rewiring your brain; Story-telling; Civilization evolution theory; Fervent charity; Power of choice; Government dependency; Apathy; Alexander Tytler; The Church; "Israel"; Immigrants; Communism; Federal Reserve Bank; "Patriotism"; "Reparations"; Forgiveness; Wrath of God; "We the People"; "Golem"; Respecters of persons; Selfishness; Republics; Electoral college; Overseers; Collective identity; Charity; Mobilizing resources; Explaining kingdom; Minister servants; Student loans; Aggrandizing the state; Pure Religion; Oregon corruption; Democracy; Abundance to selfishness; Giving up your responsibilities; Burnt offering; Forcing contributions; Body analogy; Moving in the kingdom; Strengthening your spiritual hands; Sacrificing; Calling out corruption; Fighting crime dangers; Militia; People's courts; Cities of refuge; Honest juries; Draining the swamp; Perfect law of liberty; Emotion vs Spirit; Meditation; Tree of Knowledge; Spiritual pursuit of kingdom; "Sponsorship"; Societal degeneration; Charity vs government; Public schools; Knowing what God wants you to do; Waiting upon the Lord; Seeing your mistakes; God's plan; Gregory and the military; Humility; Repetitively; Don't fear the process.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.ktfpress.comIn this month's bonus episode, we talk all about why and how to have difficult conversations about important political subjects with people who disagree with you. We get into:- What are goals are in these kinds of conversations- Strategies for regulating our emotions and achieving those goals- The power dynamics to keep in mind when having these conversations- And afterward, our segment Which Tab Is Still Open?, diving into a fascinating conversation with Rev. William Barber about what Democrats could gain if they paid attention to poor votersYou can find the video of the portion of this episode that we recorded live at ktfpress.com.Mentioned in the episode- Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell- The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas- Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero- When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert- Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Shila Heen- Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, and Ron McMillan- John Blake's interview with Rev. William BarberCredits- Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads- Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.- Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.- Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.- Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.- Editing by Sy Hoekstra- Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.- Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscriptIntroduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: Hey everyone, it's Sy. Quick note before we start. Stay tuned after this recording of our conversation, which we did on Substack Live because we recorded our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, separately due to some time constraints we had. Thanks so much for listening, and the episode officially starts now.Jonathan Walton: If your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place, because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking… [long pause] Jesus, confronting injustice. I am Jonathan Walton [laughter], and we're live on Substack.Sy Hoekstra: Jonathan starts the live by forgetting our tagline [laughter].Jonathan Walton: It's true. It's true. So welcome to Shake the Dust. My name is Jonathan. We are seeking justice, confronting injustice. See, this is live. Live is hard. Go for it, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you for being here, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, sure. I'm Sy Hoekstra, that's Jonathan Walton.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live, if you couldn't tell. This is a live recording of our podcast. We are gonna ease into it, and then we'll be good. Don't worry.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live as a recording, and then we will be releasing the audio and the video later to our paid subscribers. So if you're listening, welcome. Alright, we are gonna be talking today about a subject that comes to us from a listener that came in as a question on our finale episode, but it came in a couple hours too late, and I missed it before we started recording. But it was such an interesting question that we decided to make a whole episode out of it. So thank you to Ashley, our listener, who sent this in. We will be talking about basically, how to regulate yourself and actually strategies you can employ when having difficult conversations with people you disagree with on important subjects, the power dynamics and everything all around it, and literally just how to do it, which is actually kind of something that a lot of people have been asking us.Ashley comes at it from a really good angle that we'll be talking about too. So we'll get to all that in a moment. We will also be talking, as we usually do in our episodes, doing our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, diving a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. And this week, we will be talking about a really great interview with William Barber, the Reverend William Barber, and basically how poor people can but often don't affect elections because of the ways that the Republican and Democratic parties approach poor people. So we will get into all that in a second. I will apologize for my voice still sounding like I have a cold. It sounds like I have a cold because I have a cold, and [laughter] I have the eternal fall-winter, father of a two year old in daycare cold [laughs]. So bear with me, and I appreciate your patience. Before we get into all this, Jonathan Walton, go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, if you are listening live, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for tuning in, and I just wanna encourage you to become a paid subscriber of our Substack. If you do that, you get access to video and audio of this conversation afterwards, you also get bonus episodes and our entire archive of bonus episodes as well. Plus, when you become a monthly paid subscriber, you also get access to our monthly Zoom chats, and you'll be able to comment on our posts, communicate with us on a regular basis. And so that would be great. Plus, you'll be supporting everything that we can do to help Christians confront injustice and follow Jesus. And so that's particularly in the areas of political discipleship and education, as we try to leave behind the idols of the American church. And for everybody, if you do listen to this, please go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you might listen, and give us a five-star rating. If you wanna give less than that, you can also but you can keep that to yourself.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you so much for your support and encouragement. We really appreciate it.Sy Hoekstra: Four stars and below, give us those ratings inside your head [laughter]. Also, if you have any questions and you are listening live, feel free to put them in the chat. We can answer those as we go. And alright, Jonathan, let's jump right into it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: We got this question from Ashley. She comes at it from an interesting angle. I wanted to talk about the things that she doesn't wanna do, and then get into her questions. So she said, when she's talking about people that she disagrees with on important political or religious subjects, there's a couple of things that she did growing up. One of which was the only reason that you're engaging in these conversations as a conservative Evangelical, is to change people into you [laughs]. Is to win people over to your point of view and make them the same as you. That's your goal. Then she said she kind of grew up a little bit, went to college, became what she called it, an ungrounded liberal arts major [laughs] and started getting into what she described as the sort of millennial slash Gen Z cusp age that she is.Just it being cool to shut people down and just defeat them, destroy them in an argument. So she's just like, “I don't wanna be there just to make people into me. I don't wanna be there just to destroy people.” But she said now she finds herself in a position where most of the people around her largely agree with her on important subjects, and she just doesn't spend a lot of time around people who don't. So just kind of wants to know how to get into that, because she thinks it is important. She was saying some political organizers really convinced her that it is important to be doing that. And she just wants to know how you regulate yourself, how you go about it, and all that.What's the Goal When You're Having Difficult Disagreements on Important Subjects?Sy Hoekstra: And although that question was really interesting, and we're gonna jump into the actual strategies, I think Jonathan, the place to start is when you're having these conversations with someone, if you're not trying to cut them off, if you're not trying to turn them into you, and you're not trying to shut them down, what are you trying to do? What's the actual goal of what these conversations are? And for those of you who might be listening live or listening to us for the first time, this is Jonathan's wheelhouse [laughter]. This is right in what Jonathan does all the time. So Jonathan, go ahead, tell us what is the actual goal of these conversations?Jonathan Walton: Yes. So I wanna start off by saying that none of this is easy.Sy Hoekstra: For sure.Jonathan Walton: I'm giving you a cookie cutter, boxed up wonderful version of a cake that you don't… Like all the ingredients are in there, all you need to do is add water. And life is not like that.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.The Goal Should Be Connection, not Cutting off or ColonizingJonathan Walton: But if you're not trying to colonize someone or make them into you, and you're not trying to cut someone off just because they disagree with you, or you're not trying to cancel them, shut them down, hold them accountable in a way that leaves them feeling like a puddle of ignorance in front of you, then what you're actually trying to do is connect with them. And so I think that God made us to be in relationship with other people, and being in relationship with other people means that we're able to sit before them, to see and be seen, without trying to consume or control the other person. It's impossible to connect with someone that you're trying to control. It's impossible to connect with someone, to love someone that you're trying to consume, like to be enmeshed with and turn into yourself.And so I think one of the ways that we, what we're actually trying to do, instead of colonizing someone, instead of consuming someone, instead of controlling someone, is to connect with them. And so the foundational question that we need to ask ourselves when we're in conversations with someone who we disagree with is, “What do we want from the relationship?” So, yeah, we want to connect. And then we ask ourselves the deeper questions, hey, Ashley, [laughter] a deeper question of, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?” So for example, I know a couple. They voted differently in the election.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Than each other, or than you?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Than each other.Sy Hoekstra: Okay.Jonathan Walton: I don't know if how I voted will even come up, because that wasn't the premise of the conversation.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: But this couple, their actual argument is not about like you voted for Trump and you wanted him not to vote for him. The actual thing is, how do we love each other amidst a disagreement? Because they don't know how to hold the reality that I believe something different from you and we can still remain connected. The only option they have is to consume the other person or calling them out, “You need to think like me.” Or be consumed, “I need to think like you.” Or, “Do we need to get a divorce?” Like, no. It is possible to remain connected to someone while being in disagreement, even vehement disagreement. I think what we actually need to agree on is, how do we wanna be connected? I think that's the foundational question.Connection Versus ConversionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I like that a lot. It's funny, when we were talking about this, this did not… I don't do emotional health and relationship discipleship and all that kind of thing that Jonathan does all the time. And your answer did not immediately occur to me [laughs]. I was thinking about Ashley's question, and I was like, “Wait a minute, what is the goal? I don't even know.” Anyways, I think the framework of connection is super, super helpful, and I appreciate you laying it out for us. And it's helpful for a couple of reasons. One is, it roots us in actual relationships, meaning your real life circumstances are what's guiding you. Your goals in your relationships is what is guiding you in how you approach the question of how you have these conversations.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then it's something that is sort of an antidote to that evangelical tendency to try to convert everyone, like you were talking about.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Meaning, it's like, if you have a separate goal, then you can leave those other goals behind. But those other goals, if you don't have a new goal, those goals always stick. How you were raised is not going to change or move or be as prominent in your mind if you're not replacing it with something else.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: It's something that you can focus on, that you can actually do. Meaning you can make as much of an effort as you can to connect with someone, and they might not work, but you know that you did everything that you could, as opposed to trying to change someone. If your goal is changing people or defeating people, that never works. It very rarely works. And this is a weird thing that a lot of, I've realized growing up in evangelical churches, you couldn't face this directly, the fact that the overwhelming attempts that you made to evangelize someone didn't work [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right.Sy Hoekstra: That was just a reality that you had to ignore. The vast majority of the people that you tried, they ignored you and walked on their way. And you couldn't just stop and go like, “Maybe the thing that I'm offering them is actually not all that attractive [laughs]. Maybe the church or the community or whatever, is getting in the way of…” That stuff you couldn't face. You had to believe that you had the best way, and you had to change people, or you had to shut them down. You had to shut down your opponents if you were talking about, atheists or whatever. And that stuff, it leads to constant anxiety, because you don't control the outcome, but you want to.You feel like you have to control the outcome, but you do not control the outcome. And when it comes to connection, again, you don't control the outcome, but the goal is that you attempt, you do everything that's in your power to attempt to reach your goal of connection with this person.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And then it also filters out the people that you don't need to have a connection with [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You don't have to respond to trolls. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to convert everyone. Because you're not trying to do all those things, it takes a lot of pressure off you. But I'm sorry, you were trying to say something. Go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, no, I think just to give some other resources, I'm pulling from Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell. I'm pulling from Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas. I'm pulling from Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero. I'm pulling from Difficult Conversations. There's like, Crucial Conversations and Difficult Conversations and I get them mixed up.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And also I'm pulling from When Helping Hurts. Because, oftentimes too, When Helping Hurts, I think it's really good, because we can start out with really good intentions, with trying to do something, quote- unquote, good for someone, when I think in reality what Sy was saying is true. We can only control what we desire, how we communicate that desire, and then pursuit of that desire.There is Vulnerability in Pursuing Connection as a GoalJonathan Walton: And then the other person actually gets to respond to that. And what's difficult about being vulnerable in connecting is that if you're trying to convert someone or control someone or colonize someone, they are rejecting a message or an idea. Or is it whereas if you are trying to connect with someone, you could feel rejected.And I think it's easier to try and persuade someone, or convince someone of an idea, rather than it is to connect with you as a person. I've been rejected by people, not just romantically [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: That too, though.Jonathan Walton: And it hurts. That as well. It's true. Tears.Sy Hoekstra: Sorry [laughter].Jonathan Walton: But one of the things is… No, it's cool. It's alright. Things worked out, praise God. But I think there's a vulnerability in, let's say I'm having a conversation with someone and they say, “Hey, Jonathan, I don't actually believe that police reform should happen. I think it's a few bad apples.” I have a few ways to go in that conversation. I could say, “Hey. Have you seen these statistics from this magazine and these FBI reports?” And go down deep into why Memphis is rejecting federal oversight. I could do that. Or I could say, “Oh, I feel afraid when you say that, because the results of that are, I'm afraid to walk outside my house because there aren't people actively pushing for reforms in the police department that occupies my neighborhood.”And that is vulnerability, because they could then invalidate my fears with their response, or whatever the thing is, but I think that that's the costly work of following Jesus in those moments.You Don't Need to Have Conversations with People Whose Goals Are Not ConnectionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. And just one more note on the goal, because we're starting to get into how these conversations actually work. But I did just wanna say one more thing about the overall goal of connection first before we move into that, just because I think this one is important. Especially for people who do ministry work of some kind, or talk about the kind of things that we talk about publicly, is if your goal is connection and the other person's goal is not connection, that's another reason that you don't have to talk to them [laughs]. Meaning, here's what I'm talking about here. I've seen you, Jonathan, in situations with people who do the kind of classic Christian thing when they disagree with something you're saying in public. They come to you and they say, “Hey, I've heard you talking about, let's say, police brutality. And I have some thoughts, I was wondering if we could just talk about it. Could we set up some time to have a Zoom?”And I've seen you go like, say to this person in not so many words basically, “I don't actually think that your goal is to have a conversation right now. I think you're upset with what I'm saying and you want to try and change me. Is that correct?”Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: You just said that to them, and not rudely. You put it in kind words, but you're just like, “Am I right in thinking that that's really what you want here?” And if they can't say no, then you will say, “Okay, I'm sorry. I don't really think I have time for this,” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And move on. Which is something that I don't think a lot of ministers feel the need to do. But if someone is cutting off the possibility of connection from the jump, and all they're saying is, “I want to change you,” or they're refusing to not say that all they want is to change you, [laughs] you don't have to talk to them. You have no responsibility to talk to that person because you don't have a responsibility to get into an argument with anyone. Even as a pastor. Your responsibility is to shepherd people and to lead people, and if our conversation is just going to be an argument, you don't have to talk to them. You may still want to, everything I say is subject to your personal relationships with people and your individual circumstances, but that's an option, and I want more people to know that [laughs], because I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to just win arguments when they don't need to be having them.Winning Arguments Is Not What Leads to RepentanceJonathan Walton: Yeah. And also too, I think we've misidentified what the fruit of a won argument is.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: So for example, if I preach a sermon, or I have a conversation with a small group of people and I give a call to faith, and someone decides to follow Jesus, I did not win an argument. They're not saying I have the best ideas, or I presented things in a really compelling way, none of that is happening. What's happening is the Holy Spirit is working within them for them to respond in some way. It's the kindness of God that leads to repentance. The Gospel is the power and transformation. I can't say, “You know what? What I drew on that napkin, or what I put in that card, when the PowerPoint slide opened and everybody went, ooh,” like, no. That was not the power. It is the power of God that draws people nigh into himself.Sy Hoekstra: Nigh unto himself [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. KJV baby. KJV [laughter].How Do We Achieve Connection in Difficult Conversations?Sy Hoekstra: So let's get into then the actual strategies and kind of the meat of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: That's it. Let's get into, how do you regulate yourself and what do you actually do to achieve the goal of connection?We Have to Know Ourselves to Connect with OthersJonathan Walton: Yeah, so I think the first thing is that we can't know other people unless we know ourselves. So for example, if… let's say I was having a conversation over the weekend with someone, and they said to me, “Well, I can't believe they would think that way.” And then I said, “Well, if I were in your situation, I would be pretty angry at that response. Are you upset? Do you feel angry?” I have to know, and be willing to name that I would be angry. I have to know, and be willing to imagine, like how to empathize. Like I'm listening to them, then I wanna empathize with how they're feeling, and then ask them, “Does that resonate with you?” To build some sort of emotional connection so that we stay grounded in them as an individual and not stepping up to the argument. Like “Oh, yeah. Absolutely, what they did was wrong.”I don't wanna participate in condemning other people either. I wanna connect with this person. We could commiserate around what happened, but I think we should prioritize what is happening for the person right in front of me, not just rehashing what happened to them. You know what I mean? Like figure out what's going on. So I think we have to know ourselves to be able to know other people, which includes that emotional awareness and intelligence. And then I think after that, we should affirm what's true about that person. And then, if we've done that, then be able to ask some questions or share our own perspective.Sy Hoekstra: Or what's true about what they're saying.Jonathan Walton: Yes, what's true about what they're saying, yeah. And then be able to lean in there. And if there is an opportunity and the person desires to hear what you think about it, then that's great, but I guarantee you, they will not wanna hear about what you're saying if you don't connect with them first. And so creating or building a foundation of trust that you're not trying to just convert them or consume them or colonize them, but you are trying to connect requires that first part. So slowing down, then knowing how we feel, and then being able to connect around that level is a great place to start.Connect with Whatever Is True in What the Other Person Is SayingSy Hoekstra: Can you tell us what finding what's true and what someone is saying and then affirming that value, what does that actually sound like?Jonathan Walton: Yes, absolutely. So let's go to a different script. There was a woman that had a conversation with me and was very upset that Black people could vote for Trump. This was a racially assigned White woman saying these things. And she was, I mean, raising her voice very loud, and so I said my goal… I did actually speak over her. I said, “So my goal in this conversation is for us as a group to remain connected and aware of each other and ourselves. What is your goal in what you're saying?” And I think that kind of threw cold water in her face because she didn't know what to do with that. And so she slowed down, then she said, “Well, I don't know. I haven't processed anything,” that was kind of what she blurted out.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I knew that, actually [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I said, “It's great that like you need… this is a space to process.” I said, “What I would love for you to do is to slow down and tell us what you want, because I don't think you want me to be angry, and that's actually how I'm feeling right now. Was that your goal, was for me to feel angry and disconnected from you?” And she goes, “Well, you shouldn't be mad at me.” I said, “I can own my feelings. I didn't say you made me angry. I said my feeling in what you're saying is anger. Is that your intention? Is that what you're trying to foster? Because I would actually like to have my emotional response match your intent.” And it was not an easy conversation, but she did say after about 15 minutes of this kind of back and forth, she said, “I wanted to just close my computer,” is what she said, “But I didn't.” And then I said, “I'm so glad you chose to stay.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: “I'm so glad you chose to remain in our group. And to affirm again, you are valuable here, we desire your contribution and things like that.”Sy Hoekstra: And you were specifically in like a cohort that you were leading.Jonathan Walton: And I think it is hard to move towards someone who… Yeah, I was leading. I was leading. And everybody else was silent. They were not saying anything, but I had follow up conversations with one person after that, who said they were very grateful that I did that, because they were like, “I didn't know that you could be patient like that with someone so animated.” They were like, “I don't understand how you were calm in that situation.” I said, “Well, I was calm because I knew who I was. I was facilitating the conversation. I was leading the dialogue.” And I said, “When I'm with my mom,” not my mom, my mom passed away. “But if I was with my dad or my brothers in that conversation, I would have to do the same thing, but it will require more work because of the emotional history that's there. This history of my family and stuff under the bridge.”So each relationship is gonna bring with it its own porcupine quills, if you will, but that doesn't mean our steps change. I think our goal is to love our neighbor as ourselves. And if we don't know ourselves, we can't love our neighbors. So in the way that we would want patience and want grace and want respect, I think we need to extend that as best as we possibly can by trying to build a connection.Sy Hoekstra: And if you're talking about, I think that's really good for a discipleship situation. Anybody who disciples people, I hope you just learned something from that story [laughs]. But if you're having, by the way, Jonathan, I've noticed as we're talking, there's a very long delay. So I apologize.Jonathan Walton: No worries.Sy Hoekstra: I just interrupted you with something that was related to something you said like three sentences later, I'm sorry [laughs].Jonathan Walton: You're all good [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So I think when it comes to a political issue, if you're talking to someone who's saying something that you find very hurtful or very upsetting or whatever, which is where I think a lot of these questions come up for people. For a lot of people it's, “How do I talk to a Trump supporter?” That's kind of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then, like Jonathan said, it's going to be very hard. It's going to depend on your relationship with that person. And this work can be hard. It's very hard to get people to talk about their emotions, but that's what we need to do when somebody's talking… if they're being very anti-immigrant. You need to find a way into how they're communicating and what they're saying as angry as they are, whatever. An underlying thing might be, “I feel insecure about the economy of our country, I feel insecure about my job. I feel like I'm not gonna be able to provide because somebody's gonna undercut me in wages or whatever.” All that stuff. And the way to connect with that person is to say, “That makes sense, that feeling. And if I felt that that was happening to me, I would also be insecure.”Maybe it is also happening to you, you know what I mean? You have to just find a way into that feeling, and then say, “But the way that I feel secure is X, Y and Z, about…” If you want to talk about solidarity and lifting everyone up actually makes all of us more secure. You can get into the nitty gritty of immigration and economics, if you know that stuff, and say [laughs], “Actually, in general, immigrants really help us economically. And so I actually feel more secure. I know that immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens. And I trust the numbers that say that, and that comes from police departments. We can go look at your police department stats. So immigrants coming in actually lowers crime. I know that's a shock, but. So I feel more secure.” All that kind of like, you try and find a way to connect on the emotion and speak in a… What I'm doing right now is summarizing and being slightly glib, but [laughs] I think that's the best you can do.People You Connect with May Not Change, or Take a Long Time to ChangeSy Hoekstra: And I know to some people, if you have a really obstinate person that feels hopeless and impossible, and I think what we're saying is you give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And there's nothing you can do about it not working. And it might also be something, by the way, where you talk to them now and that's the beginning of a 10-year process of them changing.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: You don't know. This is why I said that stuff's out of your hands, is what I mean. So that's where we need to find our own internal piece about it. And then, I don't know, there's a number of other thoughts I have about what you have to do to prepare for all that, like the prep work that goes into it. But do you have other thoughts about that, Jonathan?Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, I think just all of what you said is true, and I just wanna lean into what you said about, you cannot rush the process of that relationship. Because if your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place. Because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day. We've got to be able to have conversations with people that are deeper and contain the multitudes that a person holds, as opposed to the latest tweet or share that they had.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: We're talking with people, we're not talking with a minimally viable product that's before us like, “Do I want this or not in my life?” And so I think even in the, let's take the example, like Caleb Campbell did a great example of this immigration. If someone actually believed that they were going to be invaded, I'm making quotes with my fingers, but invaded and they're gonna lose their job and they're gonna lose their emotional and spiritual and social security, not Social Security like the actual entitlement program, but social security like their feeling of social safety, that is objectively terrifying. If that is the narrative, then we can actually connect with people around why they're afraid.And if we connect with them why they're afraid, not convince them why they shouldn't be scared, then you actually have the opportunity to share with them why they may not need to be afraid. Because, as Sy said, immigrants crime actually goes down. Immigrants actually pay billions of dollars in taxes. Immigrants actually start businesses at a higher rate than our native population. All those things, but we can't get there unless we're connected. We cannot correct people without connecting with them. So, yeah.Getting Good at Connection Takes PracticeSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I think this takes a ton of practice.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You will be bad at it at first, and that's [laughter]… So I think another part of it is you have to know why it's important to you. That's another thing, and that's a personal thing. But you have to understand why connection with someone whose political beliefs or whatever you find kind of abhorrent [laughs] is something that is important to you, that work has to be done on your own and ahead of time.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You also have to take into account… sorry. You'll just get better at it over time. So meaning it, I'd say it's only like in the last few years that I've really been able to participate in extremely difficult conversations about politics or whatever, and just be okay [laughter], no matter what the consequence of it is. And sometimes that's still not true, depending on the relationship I have with the person, but I don't know. You've got to remember that people… actually, at the beginning I remember I told you she talked about, as a young person or as millennials and Gen Z wanting to shut people down. And I actually don't think that's a generational thing. I think that's just a young people thing.I think when I was 22 I thought it was awesome to shut people down [laughs]. And I think all the most recent, this is something I know from justice advocacy work, but all the recent neurology science basically tells us you don't have an adult brain until you're like 25 [laughter]. You don't have your impulse control, you know what I mean? It's just hard.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And it just takes time to retrain yourself to do something, It can take years. So fear not, is what I'm saying, if you think you're bad at this.Being Aware of How Much You Know about a SubjectSy Hoekstra: And then I think something that's kind of deceptively emotional is the things that don't seem emotional, like knowing your facts and being able to bow out of conversations when you don't know your facts [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Like if you have a feeling that something's wrong, but somebody's saying something wrong, or bigoted, or whatever, but you don't have the information, A, it's gonna make you much more comfortable if you do have the information, if you've read up on it, if you know the subjects. Because you find as you dig deeper into different political issues and hot button topics, there really are only so many opinions that people have, and they're usually based on relatively shallow understandings of information. So you can know a lot of the arguments ahead of time. You can know a lot of the important facts ahead of time. You've just kind of got to pay attention and that's something that happens over time.And then if you don't know that stuff, and you try and engage anyway just based on instinct, you're gonna have a lot of times where you say stuff that you regret later [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You're gonna have a lot of times where you maybe even make up something just because you wanna be right and you wanna win.Jonathan Walton: Yes, you wanna win.Sy Hoekstra: And then bowing out and letting someone believe their terrible thing without you fighting against it, sometimes that can be really hard, but that's an emotional issue, that's something about you being…Jonathan Walton: Right. That's a feeling. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. It's always gonna be feelings, and that's why you got to have your goals clear, and whenever you can, know your stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Adam just said something, really quick. He said, “I've literally had notification of high heart rate from my Apple watch during such conversations.”Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Yes.Jonathan Walton: And being able to have conversations without a high heart rate notification is becoming more normal.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. Good.Jonathan Walton: Yes, that has happened to me so many times. And it's true. It's fewer, it's less than what it was before that.Sy Hoekstra: That's so funny. I don't have a smart watch, so that's never happened to me, but that's so funny. And I'm glad that it's improving for both of you [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And it's a way to track if your spiritual formation's actually forming you [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: True.Engaging in Hard Conversations with Connection as a Goal is ExhaustingSy Hoekstra: So one more thing though is, this is exhausting.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: One of the reasons it's exhausting is not just because the whole thing is hard, but the issue is no one's ever gonna come to you, again, I guess, unless you're a pastor, and say, “Hey, next Wednesday at 4:00 pm I wanna talk to you about immigration.”Jonathan Walton: Right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: They're going to come to you, you're gonna be having a dinner, and there's gonna be a completely random out of nowhere comment that you do not expect coming and your instinct may be in that moment to get angry or to just let it pass because you don't wanna deal with right now or whatever. And all that you have to take that into account. Again, over time it'll get easier to respond to random acts of racist bigotry, whatever. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: But it is something that's hard to do for anyone, and so you need to take the exhaustion of constantly being on alert into account when you think about, how do I wanna connect with this person? Because if it's someone where you have to be on alert the whole time and ready to go at any moment [laughs], that's difficult. And that's somebody that you might need to hang out with less or whatever.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You have to make those decisions for yourself. And so I'm just saying, be willing to take that into account. Be alert to that way that you can become exhausted. Because, again, if you're really tired and you just have a snap reaction, you can say stuff you regret later.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Alright, Jonathan. Do you have… Yeah, you have thoughts. Go ahead and then we'll get to...Jonathan Walton: No, I was gonna say, off all of that, I think is mitigated by asking myself, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And all of us have relationships that are not as healthy as we'd like them to be. And if my goal is not to convert someone or I don't feel this like abnormal, huge weight of this person's salvation, because that's not my responsibility, then I can say, “You know what? I just can't be with that person right now. I just can't do that.” And be able to enter into that in a healthier way, and it'll be a more loving thing.The Power Dynamics of Difficult ConversationsSy Hoekstra: Yeah, absolutely. Let's just get into, I think that's a lot of the meat of it, but let's talk about just some of the power dynamics and other things that are going on during these conversations. Jonathan, I'm happy to start if you want, but you can go ahead if you have some things you wanna flag for people.Jonathan Walton: Well, I think if we're not thinking about power dynamics then we're missing what's actually happening. So when men to women, able-bodied to disable-bodied, rich to poor, educated to uneducated. All of these things are playing all the time. So somebody's like, “Oh, you're playing the race card, or you're being ageist,” that's just the table. It's not a card. That's just the society we live in. We live in a segregated, stratified society. And so to be able to be aware of that, I think respects whether you are in the ecosystem or whether you've been lifted up by the ecosystem because of the hierarchies that we live in. I think that's just something we have to take into account of where we are and where the person that we are engaging with is or is perceived to be, then that can be a gift, just in the conversation. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: So that's sort of like keeping in mind whether you're talking to someone who's basically [laughs] above or below you on different hierarchies, which is gonna be important. Like, if you're talking, if I as a White person am talking to a Black person about race, I have to understand the dynamics. For me, at least, what I'm thinking about is I have to be personally familiar with the stuff that Black people hear all the time [laughs], and how it is often heard, and that sort of thing. Not because I need to apply a monolithic understanding of race conversations to any individual, but just to know that that individual is probably going to hear something I say this way, or feel this way about something.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: I'm sorry about the sirens in my background. I live in Manhattan [laughter]. So I think that's one thing. But then the other way is I as a disabled person, if I'm trying to talk to an able-bodied person about disability stuff, I just need to take into account how much more tiring that's going to be, and the work that I may have to do after the conversation to process whatever terribly insulting thing was said to me [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I do that all the time. That's something I have to do when I get home from dropping my daughter off at daycare. It just depends on what happened on the way there, or whatever. Another thing is that the, a person you're talking to can always walk away [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Nobody needs to be in this conversation, and that you need to be able to accept that. You need to be able to let people go the way that Jesus did when they rejected his teachings. Because if you don't do that and [laughs] you try and force them into conversations with you, again, that's what we're trying to avoid doing, is panicking about the results and trying to make somebody like you because you think the world needs to be the way that you are. That's the colonialist mindset [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: And then I think one other thing for me is how the person… this is back on the hierarchy thing. How what somebody else is saying is affecting other people around you, or the other person that that person has to interact with. Meaning the person that you're trying to connect with might be someone, like not the person you're talking to. It might be somebody who's sitting next to you, it might be somebody who's not there.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: So that's just the other thing to keep in mind, because you might be trying to show somebody else that they have support, that's a huge thing. That's the person who you have a conversation with after your cohort call that you were talking about earlier. And it might be just like, if I'm talking to another White person and I know, actually doesn't matter if I know them or not, but if I'm talking about connection, if I know people of color who have to talk to this person and they're saying something that I think I can head off or correct in some way, then I should do that. And I should keep in mind my connection with that White person, but I've also top of mind it's gonna be the connection that I have with people of color who interact with that person too.Okay, those are my thoughts on that big question. Jonathan, do we have anything else to say about these conversations before we move to Which Tab Is Still Open?Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Well, I don't have anything more to say about that conversation. I do have two problems that our live audience will get to engage with.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: One is that I need to get… it's one o'clock.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so I have a time stop.Sy Hoekstra: Right now?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And my phone is also telling me, yeah, because I was thinking, I didn't know we're gonna talk past one o'clock, but…Sy Hoekstra: [laughter] Well, we started like 12:15 so.Jonathan Walton: We did. We did, we did. And then my phone as we entered into this conversation is on the red.Sy Hoekstra: Is about to die. Alright, cool. So then I think what we'll do, Jonathan, is we'll record the Which Tab Is Still Open separately, and just add that to the bonus episode.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: So again, everybody, if you wanna hear the recordings of this afterwards, and now I guess the extended version of this episode, become a paid subscriber at KTFPress.com, or just on, you're on Substack right now if you're listening to us. Become a paid subscriber, that would be amazing. If you wanna get our newsletter that's actually free, you can follow us on the free list and get us that way. Thank you so much for joining us today, we really appreciate it. Give us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify and we will see you next month. We do these once a month now that we're in the off season. And our theme song is “Citizens”, by Jon Guerra. Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess. Joyce Ambale does the transcripts. I'm doing the editing right now and the production of this show, along with our paid subscribers. Thank you all so much for joining us, and we will hopefully see you next month or on the paid list.Jonathan Walton: Yep, bye.Sy: Bye.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Which Tab Is Still Open?: Rev. William Barber and Poor VotersSy Hoekstra: And now this is the separate recording of Which Tab Is Still Open. We're gonna dive a little bit deeper into one of the articles from the newsletter that Jonathan brought up recently. Jonathan, why don't you tell us about the article, and we'll get into a little discussion about it.Jonathan Walton: Yes. So our good friend, John Blake, award winning journalists and former guest on this podcast interviewed Reverend Dr William Barber on his thoughts after the election. It was one of the most interesting things I read post-election, because Dr Barber has a perspective most politicians and pundits just don't. He takes a perspective of poor people seriously, like Jesus [laughter]. And so one of the things he argues was that about 30 million poor people who are eligible voters usually don't vote because neither party is addressing the issues that are important to them, like minimum wage, affordable health care, strengthening unions, etc.There was talk about strengthening unions, but not in the ways that communicate about the needs and priorities of low wage and poor workers. Republicans mostly blame poor people for their poverty, that is a consistent thing over the last 60 years. And Democrats ignore them altogether because they see them not as a viable voting block to mobilize, we should get middle class voters, which is not the same as the working poor. Barber has a history of successfully organizing multiracial coalitions of poor working class people in North Carolina to make real difference in elections. So it's not just a theoretical thing, like you can actually win elections by doing what MLK did, which Barber is in the tradition of you can have a multicultural coalition of impoverished or economically impoverished, marginalized people in the United States and actually have and hold power in the country.So even as Kamala Harris lost in November in North Carolina, voters elected a Democratic Governor and Attorney General and got rid of the veto-proof majority in the state legislature, even with all of the nonsensical gerrymandering that exist there. So Sy, what are your thoughts on all this?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I'm very happy that somebody in the mainstream news is actually talking about this [laughs]. That's one thing. I just haven't heard... This is one of those things where if somebody, if the Democrats got this right, they could win a lot more. I don't know how much more, Reverend Barber is very optimistic about it. I haven't dug into the numbers the way that he has as a political organizer, but he basically says if you swing like 10 percent of the poor vote in any direction in many states, and you could change a whole lot of stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I mean, you can read the article for his exact arguments. But it is definitely true that we don't address poor voters any real way, like we get stuck on, I've talked about this before, the bias toward, quote- unquote, real America, which sort of amounts to working and middle class White people and really does not address actually impoverished people. And the average, Reverend Barber is very sensitive to this, which I think is why he's effective, is the average welfare recipient in the United States today is still White. That hasn't changed. Welfare recipients are disproportionately Black and Brown. But the demographics of this country are such that you can be disproportionately high as a racial minority, but White people are still gonna be the majority of the welfare recipien