Podcast appearances and mentions of karl vaters

Rachel Bren is a survivor of sexually related trauma, and now she serves with SRTServices.org, which helps people recover from their trauma, and can help you and your church. She's also the co-host of the Grace & Grenades podcast.Karl Vaters interviews Rachel about what sexual related trauma is, how the church can help those dealing with it, some mistakes to avoid, and more.Links:SRTServices.orgGrace & GrenadesOur church introduction videoBrene Brown video on sympathy vs. empathyThe Allender Center PodcastThe Place We Find Ourselves PodcastGrace & Grenades PodcastYou can reach Rachel by email at rachel@srtservices.org and the website www.srtservices.orgBonus videoHow Your Church Can Help People Recover from Sexually Related Trauma, with Rachel BrenKarl Vaters talks with Rachel Bren about how SRTServices.org can come alongside your church to give you the tools to help people who are dealing with sexually related trauma.Links:SRTServices.orgGrace & GrenadesTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Rachel Bren is a survivor of sexually related trauma, and now she serves with SRTServices.org, which helps people recover from their trauma, and can help you and your church. She's also the co-host of the Grace & Grenades podcast.Karl Vaters interviews Rachel about what sexual related trauma is, how the church can help those dealing with it, some mistakes to avoid, and more.Links:SRTServices.orgGrace & GrenadesOur church introduction videoBrene Brown video on sympathy vs. empathyThe Allender Center PodcastThe Place We Find Ourselves PodcastGrace & Grenades PodcastYou can reach Rachel by email at rachel@srtservices.org and the website www.srtservices.orgBonus videoHow Your Church Can Help People Recover from Sexually Related Trauma, with Rachel BrenKarl Vaters talks with Rachel Bren about how SRTServices.org can come alongside your church to give you the tools to help people who are dealing with sexually related trauma.Links:SRTServices.orgGrace & GrenadesTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Rev. Dr. J.R. Briggs joins John and Matt to talk about failure. Rev. Dr. Briggs believes that failure is not the end but rather can be a beautiful new beginning. Resources Fail by J.R. Briggs (book) Kairos Partnerships (organization) How Your Congregation Learns by Tim Shapiro (book) "There is Hope and Help for Pastors Who Feel 'Stalled'" from ChurchLeaders.com (24 min video) "Focusing On Health, Not Size" from Center for Congregations (podcast) "How Do You Define A Healthy Church Aside from The Numbers" by Karl Vaters (article)

Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?If you're serving a small church that's considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Navigating the Post-Pandemic Landscape of Worship.Links:SmallChurchCoaching.comLinkTreeYou can follow Sam on Facebook and X Bonus videoThe Limitations of the Institutional Church in Reaching the CommunityKarl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about some of the limitations that are now coming to light about the institutional church model (building, salary, etc.) that we've both spent our lives in. The challenges we talk about include:1. Physical and Financial Constraints: Many churches invest most of their resources into maintaining buildings and programs rather than directly engaging the lost. This is especially difficult for smaller congregations.2. Passive Churchgoers Instead of Active Disciple-Makers: Institutional churches can unintentionally foster a consumer mindset, where members attend services but are not equipped to lead or disciple others.3. Limited Reach Beyond Church Walls: Most churches expect people to come to them rather than embedding the Gospel in everyday life and relationships.4. Slow Adaptation to Cultural Shifts: In an age of rapid change, large churches with complex structures often struggle to pivot quickly to meet new challenges and opportunities.5. Overemphasis on Sunday Gatherings: The primary focus in many churches is the Sunday experience, but disciple-making happens most effectively in smaller, relational environments.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?If you're serving a small church that's considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Navigating the Post-Pandemic Landscape of Worship.Links:SmallChurchCoaching.comLinkTreeYou can follow Sam on Facebook and X Bonus videoThe Limitations of the Institutional Church in Reaching the CommunityKarl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about some of the limitations that are now coming to light about the institutional church model (building, salary, etc.) that we've both spent our lives in. The challenges we talk about include:1. Physical and Financial Constraints: Many churches invest most of their resources into maintaining buildings and programs rather than directly engaging the lost. This is especially difficult for smaller congregations.2. Passive Churchgoers Instead of Active Disciple-Makers: Institutional churches can unintentionally foster a consumer mindset, where members attend services but are not equipped to lead or disciple others.3. Limited Reach Beyond Church Walls: Most churches expect people to come to them rather than embedding the Gospel in everyday life and relationships.4. Slow Adaptation to Cultural Shifts: In an age of rapid change, large churches with complex structures often struggle to pivot quickly to meet new challenges and opportunities.5. Overemphasis on Sunday Gatherings: The primary focus in many churches is the Sunday experience, but disciple-making happens most effectively in smaller, relational environments.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters writes: How good is your church doing at greeting and keeping guests? If you're like a lot of churches, you know you could do better.I talked with Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests. Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.Desmond and I talked about:How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pewWhy sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guestsWhy so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be doneWhy “we just need to attract young families” is never the answerThe good news that new Christians are not looking for programs, they're wanting to live on missionKarl's Books mentioned in the podcasts:De-sizing the Church Small Church Essentials

Karl Vaters interviews Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests.Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.Karl and Desmond talk about:How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pewWhy sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guestsWhy so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be doneWhy “we just need to attract young families” is never the answerThe good news that new Christians are not looking for programs, they're wanting to live on missionLinks:Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase AttendanceRevitalizing the Declining Church with Dr. Desmond Barrett (podcast)Desmond's Amazon Author PageLibby App Bonus video5 Options When a Church Property is Too Big for the Congregation, with Desmond BarrettKarl Vaters talks with Desmond Barrett, the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, about a subject that is a challenge for a growing number of congregations. What can you do when a church facility that was built to hold hundreds of people has just a handful or worshipers left?The five options they discuss are:Do NothingShare the PropertyRent the PropertySell the PropertyRecreate the PropertyLinks: Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase AttendanceTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests.Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.Karl and Desmond talk about:How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pewWhy sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guestsWhy so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be doneWhy “we just need to attract young families” is never the answerThe good news that new Christians are not looking for programs, they're wanting to live on missionLinks:Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase AttendanceRevitalizing the Declining Church with Dr. Desmond Barrett (podcast)Desmond's Amazon Author PageLibby App Bonus video5 Options When a Church Property is Too Big for the Congregation, with Desmond BarrettKarl Vaters talks with Desmond Barrett, the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, about a subject that is a challenge for a growing number of congregations. What can you do when a church facility that was built to hold hundreds of people has just a handful or worshipers left?The five options they discuss are:Do NothingShare the PropertyRent the PropertySell the PropertyRecreate the PropertyLinks: Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase AttendanceTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Join host Joe Epley as he takes some of the principles of church health found in the works of pastor and author Karl Vaters and shares how they have applied in his life. Join him as he speaks of the struggles of measuring success apart from numbers. You can check out Karl Vaters works at www.karlvaters.com As always, if you would like to reach out to the show for encouragement, or with ideas and feedback, please contact our host Joe Epley at joseph.g.epley@gmail.com

Join us as we have a discussion with Pastor and Author Karl Vaters. In the second part of this episode, we will discuss how to measure success in the church apart from numbers, how to create healthy churches, and how we as leaders can focus on discipleship in the midst of doing church. Pastor Karl’s books, articles, and other resources can be accessed at his website here. As always, if you would like to reach out to the podcast for encouragement, or to give ideas and feedback, you can contact the host Joe Epley at joseph.g.epley@gmail.com

Karl Vaters interviews Brad Hill about some of the latest findings concerning the church and technology.Brad is the Chief Solutions Officer at Gloo, an organization that came out of nowhere a few years ago, and now seems to be everywhere.After clarifying Karl's curiosity about who/what Gloo actually is, they talk about some of the important findings from a recent study Gloo conducted with Barna.If you're not an early adopter of technology, this can help you navigate the fast-changing landscape without getting bogged down in details.The five findings Karl and Brad discuss are:Christians see huge potential for churches to use digital tools effectively.Churchgoers want pastors to address AI use thoughtfully and wisely.Gen Z may live online, but they still crave in-person relationships over digital connections.Practicing Gen Z Christians feel uncertain about whether AI is a faithful tool.Pastors are intentional about using tech but still prioritize relationships and collaboration as the foundation of ministry. Links:GlooState of the Church researchDigital Tools articleBarnaTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Karl Vaters interviews Brad Hill about some of the latest findings concerning the church and technology.Brad is the Chief Solutions Officer at Gloo, an organization that came out of nowhere a few years ago, and now seems to be everywhere.After clarifying Karl's curiosity about who/what Gloo actually is, they talk about some of the important findings from a recent study Gloo conducted with Barna.If you're not an early adopter of technology, this can help you navigate the fast-changing landscape without getting bogged down in details.The five findings Karl and Brad discuss are:Christians see huge potential for churches to use digital tools effectively.Churchgoers want pastors to address AI use thoughtfully and wisely.Gen Z may live online, but they still crave in-person relationships over digital connections.Practicing Gen Z Christians feel uncertain about whether AI is a faithful tool.Pastors are intentional about using tech but still prioritize relationships and collaboration as the foundation of ministry. Links:GlooState of the Church researchDigital Tools articleBarnaTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Join us as we have a discussion with Pastor and Author Karl Vaters. Over the next two weeks, we will discuss how to measure success in the church apart from numbers, how to create healthy churches, and how we as leaders can focus on discipleship in the midst of doing church. Pastor Karl’s books, articles, and other resources can be accessed at his website here. As always, if you would like to reach out to the podcast for encouragement, or to give ideas and feedback, you can contact the host Joe Epley at joseph.g.epley@gmail.com

Send us a textToday we welcome Karl Vaters to the podcast. Karl has served in a small church ministry for 40 years, with a handful of pastoral experiences. He is the author of numerous books and hosts a bi-weekly podcast - The Church Lobby: Conversations on Faith & Ministry.  He is the author of De-Sizing the Church: How the Church Growth Movement Became Science, then an obsession, and what's next.  

Eric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.Eric's new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.This conversation covers the subjects of:The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this roadThe value pastors bring to the marketplaceFinding your marketable skills through using the Heart- Head-Hands-Feet methodHow to get through the clutter of thousands of job applicantsHow to present yourself and your skillsAnd so much more Links from this episode:Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money StressIHelpPastorsGetJobs.comDaily Examen App: "Reimagining the Examen" for iphone and androidBonus ContentHow to Build a LinkedIn Profile that Will Get Job Leads, with Eric HokeLinkedIn remains a primary online site for those seeking employment, and it's especially helpful for pastors seeking covocational employment.In this very practical conversation, Eric Hoke talks with Karl Vaters about some common mistakes to avoid and opportunities to take advantage of that will get you noticed—and get the side hustle job that suits your skills and needs.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Eric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.Eric's new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.This conversation covers the subjects of:The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this roadThe value pastors bring to the marketplaceFinding your marketable skills through using the Heart- Head-Hands-Feet methodHow to get through the clutter of thousands of job applicantsHow to present yourself and your skillsAnd so much more Links from this episode:Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money StressIHelpPastorsGetJobs.comDaily Examen App: "Reimagining the Examen" for iphone and androidBonus ContentHow to Build a LinkedIn Profile that Will Get Job Leads, with Eric HokeLinkedIn remains a primary online site for those seeking employment, and it's especially helpful for pastors seeking covocational employment.In this very practical conversation, Eric Hoke talks with Karl Vaters about some common mistakes to avoid and opportunities to take advantage of that will get you noticed—and get the side hustle job that suits your skills and needs.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor's relationship with God's Word, the Bible.In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher's kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor's home.In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor's homeHow to give the Bible a central place in our homesThe importance of living what you're preachingHow to approach the Bible correctly as a pastor and a parentAnd moreLinks:John Lennox: God Does ExistJohn Lennox: The Bible and age of the earth?John Lennox: Why I am a Christian and a scientist

For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor's relationship with God's Word, the Bible.In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher's kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor's home.In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor's homeHow to give the Bible a central place in our homesThe importance of living what you're preachingHow to approach the Bible correctly as a pastor and a parentAnd moreLinks:John Lennox: God Does ExistJohn Lennox: The Bible and age of the earth?John Lennox: Why I am a Christian and a scientist

Karl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.This interview is raw. It's real, and it's very emotional.In addition to talking through his testimony at length, Karl and Russ also take a song-by-song walk through his newest album, which is a journey through his story of pain, trauma, lament, and redemption.Links:Cover Story (The album)RussTaff.comBecome a Financial PartnerSubscribe to Karl's free weekly newsletter

Karl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.This interview is raw. It's real, and it's very emotional.In addition to talking through his testimony at length, Karl and Russ also take a song-by-song walk through his newest album, which is a journey through his story of pain, trauma, lament, and redemption.Links:Cover Story (The album)RussTaff.comBecome a Financial PartnerSubscribe to Karl's free weekly newsletter

In today's episode John and Jim welcome Karl Vaters back to the mic to continue our conversation around his compelling book, De-Sizing the Church. Today Karl reveals what he is most optimistic about and most concerned about regarding pastors and the local churches they serve.

In today's episode John and Jim welcome Karl Vaters to the mic to discuss his bestselling book, De-Sizing the Church. We dig into Karl's research on the church growth movement and explore how discipleship and integrity are the answers to every problem a church encounters.

Join us as our host Joe Epley walks through highlights from the book Small Church Essentials by Karl Vaters. This book is a great resource for practical tips on leading small town ministry. This book highlights good strategies for church health, and proper metrics to measure success that don’t revolve around the numbers. You can purchase Small Church Essentials or Karl Vaters’ other books at the links below: Small Church Essentials The Grasshopper Myth De-Sizing the Church As always if you would like to reach out the show for encouragement, or with feedback and ideas, you can connect with our host Joe Epley at joseph.g.epley@gmail.com

Comments? Questions? Send us a message!This is a podcast done by Karl Vaters (author, Small Church Essentials) and Sean Nemecek, a pastor who ministers to pastors to help keep them vitalized and fruitful.The name of the podcast is The Church Lobby, Conversations on Faith and Ministry. We asked permission to play this episode in its entirety. I think you'll find it to be extremely helpful and practical, dealing with the subject of pastoral sabbaticals. The Why, When, and How. Such a need in today's pastoral and church climate, where pastors are commonly becoming burned out and unhealthy, largely due to the demand upon them in this impossible calling (impossible apart from God's enabling help). For Poimen Ministries, its staff, ministries, and focus, go to poimenministries.com. To contact Poimen Ministries, email us at strongerpastors@gmail.com. May the Lord revive His work in the midst of these years!

Alberto Bello is a church planter in Bakersfield CA, and he's written one of those books everyone says they could write, Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership.Karl Vaters talks with Alberto about that book, the experiences that led to it, and the lessons to be learned from it.Including:Knowing who you are in JesusThe Comparison TrapHow failure is necessary for successHow not to be people-pleasing leaderAnd more Links:Ten Things They Didn't Tell Me About Leadership

Mike Rubino is a pastor in the unique ministry environment of Long Island NY. He's also the founder and director of Church Revitalize, which helps churches that need to revitalize their ministry, through cohorts, coaching, and more.Karl Vaters talks with Mike about church revitalization, with a focus on Mike's new workbook, The Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater Health.Subjects include:The difference between church growth and church revitalizationThe importance of pastoral health and renewalHow to understand and fix your church's blind spotsIdentifying your church's God-given Geographic ResponsibilityAnd more Links:Church RevitalizeThe Revitalize Roadmap: Getting Your Church on the Road to Greater HealthBeTheChurch.orgBook - Crucial Conversations

Every church should be open to everyone who wants to attend. So, we need to be more purposeful about making sure we're not unintentionally denying access without realizing it.Barbara Stanley oversees Wonderful Works Ministry, which equips churches to serve families affected by disability. They have a large and growing set of resources to help churches of all types.Karl Vaters talks with Barb about a variety of subjects, including:Why disability inclusion mattersHow to come alongside families who are affected by disabilityHow every church can take some simple first steps toward disability inclusionHow to deal with some of the changing language around disability Links:Wonderful Works MinistryPodcast: Wonderful Works TalksThere is no bonus material for this episode.

On this episode of the AVAIL Podcast, we sit down with Karl Vaters, a veteran pastor and author of Desizing the Church, to tackle one of the ministry's most pressing topics: the cultural obsession with church size. Karl shares his journey of shifting from a numbers-driven focus to understanding the profound value of building healthy church communities. Together, they unpack myths surrounding church growth, discuss the challenges of pastoral burnout, and explore the essential role of small churches in the global kingdom. Whether you lead a large congregation or a small church, this conversation will challenge your perspective and inspire you to redefine success in ministry.

A clergy sabbatical is not a luxury for the few, it's an essential element in recalibrating your ministry and reestablishing healthy habits for ministry longevity.Sabbaticals are having a moment right now. With the accelerated pace of life and ministry, we're recognizing their value in a fresh, new way.Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of a sabbatical. And now they've put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,, a practical guide that will help pastors, their congregations, and their families.Karl Vaters talkes with Sean talk about the aspects of an effective sabbatical, including:What is a sabbatical?Why is a sabbatical important for pastors?What's the ideal sabbatical length?Dealing with common objections to taking a sabbaticalFinancial considerationsAnd moreLinks:Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,Pastor In Residence MinistriesBonus ContentAnger, Depression, and Temptation: Dealing with the Unexpected on Your Sabbatical, with Sean NemecekStuff happens when you step away from the hectic pace of everyday ministry life to take a multi-month sabbatical. Most of it is good, some of it is surprising, and if you're not ready for it, some of it can cause damage.Thankfully, Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of their sabbaticals. And now they've put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit.In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Sean about some of the unexpected things that happen on sabbatical, so you can be prepared to get the most out of your time of refreshing and renewal.

Have you ever noticed that people don't pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There's a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.Some of what they talk about includes: GamificationThe Open Loop MethodThe Anapastic MeterLinks:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Proven Strategies to Gamify Your StorytellingOpen Loop Method: Hook Your Reader And Keep Their AttentionThe Secret To Unforgettable Stories (The Anapastic Meter)ChurchFuel.comYou can follow Payton on LinkedIn and X.Bonus video (Supporters and Subscribers only)3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing and Speaking, with Payton MinzenmayerStorytelling is the most powerful form of communication. But most of us could use help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer, of ChristianStoryLab.com, about the three habits Payton uses every day to strengthen his storytelling muscles. They're simple, repeatable, and so helpful.Links:ChristianStoryLab.com3 Simple Habits to Elevate Your Writing In 30 Days Or Less

Are you praying for a healthier church in 2025? How does the church get there? In this conversation, Seth and Deb visit with Pastor and author Karl Vaters who has developed a process toward health that he shares in 100 Days to a Healthier Church. If you long to be part of creating a healthier church, Karl points us to foundational truths and a guide to moving your church forward. Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshow/wdlmSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

According to John's vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.That's the premise of Karl Vaters' conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.Jamaal and Timothy focus on what we can do to create a more kingdom-minded approach to ethnic diversity, while acknowledging that ethnic diversity is not the point of the church, but a byproduct of the gospel message.Links:In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture Bonus video3 Steps to Move Your Church Toward Multiethnic Generosity, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul JonesOne of the habits (liturgies) that Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones suggest in their book, In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, is to help your church move toward multiethnic generosity.Karl Vaters talks with them as they suggest a simple plan to visit a faithful, gospel-driven church outside your own ethnicity or culture once every three months. Embrace this habit as an opportunity to learn from sisters and brothers in other cultures. And when you do, walk through these three steps:Consider your own preferencesVisit the other churchBe grateful for your preferences—and be willing to lay them down

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldviewWhy this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians alikeWhy it's important to regain this understandingWhat the values of the world looked like before the cross upended everythingHow a clear understanding of the first three chapters of Genesis is the foundation for all of itPodcast Links:Speak LifeBook: The Air We Breathe: How We All Came to Believe in Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and EqualityBook: 3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and YouBonus SummaryHow Good Theology Became the Basis for Good Science, with Glen ScrivenerGood theology and good science are good friends. In this short conversation with Glen Scrivener, Karl Vaters asks him about the three legs upon which this reality sits.These three principles become clear when we have a better understanding of the first three chapters of the Bible:The freedom of GodThat humans can understand God's waysTaking human fallibility into account

95Network ministry partner Karl Vaters joins Dale for another podcast to discuss his latest book, "De-Sizing The Church." This is a great conversation that reveals so much about how the church in America operates today. It also dives into the historical turning points that led us to where we are currently.You'll really enjoy Karl and Dale's transparent conversation on today's podcast.Show Notes: https://www.95network.org/the-best-of-2024-de-sizing-the-church-w-karl-vaters-episode-264/Support the show

Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.This conversation is based on the content of Scot's new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough statistics, that people who use a term like “deconstruction” are probably not leaving Jesus, but are usually trying to find a simpler, more genuine representation of him than what they've seen in many of our churches. Deconstructors are asking important questions and shining a light on issues we need to pay attention to. Links from this Episode:Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for ChristThe New Testament In ColorNick Crawley - Bible For LifeBonus Content Summary The Three Stages of DeconstructionFrom chapter 6 of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, Scot McKnight shares the three distinct steps most deconstructors go through (Liminality, Elimination, and Liberation), and what they mean.Knowing these phases can be very helpful for us, as church leaders, to be involved in the conversation with them. When we step into this space instead of running from it, we have the chance to learn, and to guide them as they seek to draw closer to Jesus.

In this episode of Next Step Leadership, Tracy and Chris continue their conversation with Karl Vaters. Karl is a minister and author who is getting much attention these days. He speaks up for small churches—the often forgotten culture. He offers wisdom and encouragement to pastors who struggle to get churches to follow every new trend and quickly become larger congregations. He wrote about the key points in his latest book De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. Pastors, lay leaders, ministry students, and all followers of Christ can gain a better grasp of Pastor Karl's teachings during this week's podcast. His words need to be heard. His wisdom needs to be applied. His humility needs to be followed. Listen and learn. Take the right next steps suggested from a leader like Karl Vaters. https://karlvaters.com/

Karl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.Karl and Matt talk about:What is The Power of Four?Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?The importance of reading and hearing the Bible in churchHelpful ways to gauge spiritual maturityHow to use Power of Four to help a congregation become more matureLinks:Bible Engagement: A Key to Spiritual GrowthCenter for Bible EngagementA Non Anxious Presence by Mark SayersBonus Content SummaryA Congregational Survey to Help Track Your Congregation's Spiritual Maturity, with Matt LucasHow do you know if your congregation is maturing? Tracking church attendance is not enough.Matt Lucas and the team at Our Daily Bread are creating a powerful new tool to help pastors and their congregations.In this Bonus Material, Karl Vaters talks with Matt as he shows us this new tool, explaining what it will do, how easy it will be, and how you'll be able to use it to lead your congregation well.

Pastor and author Karl Vaters is a key voice for today's spiritual leaders. In a culture highlighting big churches and impressive stats, many ministers feel like failures. But what about tiny churches in small towns? What about the average size church which chooses to send ministers out instead of holding more people inside and hiring a huge staff? Too many great pastors are leaving ministry because of the pressure toward cultural success. Pastor Vaters brings deep knowledge from years of studying and pastoring. He learned how to define success in ministry without numbers attached to it. Through Karl's speaking and writing, he offers better views toward church health. Defining church success with numbers is relatively new in church history. American church development has historically moved from stages of revival to management to activism. During the present activism season, Karl states the things which matter most. His book—De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next—provides a healthy perspective for why the church is truly created. His conversation with Chris and Tracy is just what is needed during these days. https://karlvaters.com/

In an era where the average church in America has an attendance of about 50 people, Karl Vaters talks about desizing the church. Karl also discusses the drug of size, the good and bad of the church growth movement, and what large and small churches get right.

Retirement isn't what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who's currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, includingThe value of long-term experience in today's ministry environmentHow to pace yourself for the long-termHow not to block the way for younger ministersHow to mentor younger ministers Links from this Episode:Elizabeth Fulgaro's Eagles NestBook: The Fantasy Fallacy by Shannon EthridgeBook: Unwanted by Jay StringerBook: The Awakened Brain by Dr. Lisa MillerBonus ContentNavigating the Challenges of Being a Woman In Ministry, with Lisa NorthwayWhat roles does the Bible allow women to serve in the church? This is a hot-button topic, for sure. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain Lisa Northway about the challenges she faces as a woman in ministry, and how to address those issues among the troops she serves.

On this episode of the AVAIL Podcast, we sit down with Karl Vaters, a veteran pastor and author of Desizing the Church, to tackle one of the ministry's most pressing topics: the cultural obsession with church size. Karl shares his journey of shifting from a numbers-driven focus to understanding the profound value of building healthy church communities. Together, they unpack myths surrounding church growth, discuss the challenges of pastoral burnout, and explore the essential role of small churches in the global kingdom. Whether you lead a large congregation or a small church, this conversation will challenge your perspective and inspire you to redefine success in ministry.

Small churches aren't a problem to fix, they're a unique part of the body of Christ that has gifts we need to embrace.Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of embracing what's right about small churches, not in spite of being small, but because they're small, in a conversation based on the content of Allen's book, The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church's Vocation.Some of the subjects they cover include:A new take on the “all growth is good growth” assumption, based on the fact that we live in a culture that is so economically drivenWhy small churches should be more nimble, but often are notThe differences between a hierarchical leadership model and the Solar System ModelThe importance of the “Parking Lot meeting”The differences between regular and episodic volunteersLinks:The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church's VocationReclaiming Rural: Building Thriving Rural Congregations211Counts.orgUniversity of the OzarksBonus ContentFour Practices to Help Your Small Church Stay Nimble, with Allen T. StantonKarl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of:Acknowledging the places where small-membership churches are already good at change and where they already practice being adaptive and flexible.Remembering that not everything needs to change all the time.The looseness of small-church relational networks, rather than strict hierarchies and complicated bureaucracies.Understanding and appropriately managing the roles of individuals in the organization.

Working a side hustle is no longer the exception for pastors, it's the norm. Embracing it might answer a lot of your (and your church's) needs.Karl Vaters talks with Jon Sanders about the rise in covocational pastoring and why it's something more pastors, especially small-church pastors, should take seriously. Jon is the co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and the co-founder of EntrePastors.com (with Les Hughes).The culture around us is shifting. The idea that someone entering the workplace will get a single full-time job to pay the bills is a rarity. And the church is no exception. But, unlike the secular marketplace, we shouldn't be playing catch-up with this. We can lead.Jon and Karl talk about several important aspects of bivo/covo ministry, including:Why this is a growing needHow to make the shift without neglecting the churchThe difference between bivocational and covocationalHow to prepare your congregation for a covocational pastorateAnd more.Jon also serves as the Director of Coaching for the 95Network, a ministry that specializes in serving small to midsize churches.Podcast Links:Rural Church Rescue, with Jon Sanders (ep 024)EntrePastorsHow The Side Hustle Is Changing The Face Of Pastoring Bonus MaterialFinding a Covocational Job That Fits a Pastor's Skills and Schedule, with Jon SandersWhat marketplace jobs work well for covocational pastors?The skills you have honed as a pastor are highly desirable in the secular marketplace. But how can they be turned into a paying job that won't interfere with your pastoral calling?In the bonus conversation I talk to Jon Sanders of EntrePastors.com about how to make that transition, including several real-life examples of pastors who have made that transition well.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

95Network ministry partner Karl Vaters joins Dale for another podcast to discuss his latest book entitled, "De-Sizing The Church." This is a great conversation revealing so much of how the church in America operates today. It also dives into the historical turning points of what led us to where we find ourselves currently.You're going to really enjoy the transparent conversation between Karl and Dale on today's podcast. Show Notes: https://www.95network.org/de-sizing-the-church-w-karl-vaters-episode-253/Support the show

Why would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:Their church's Hub for Movement strategyTheir decision to do ministry in the poorest part of townMinistry in a deeply post-Christian contextHonoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church buildingTheir plan to plant a microchurch on every block of Wilkes-BarreLinks from this episode:Future Church, by Will Mancini and Cory HartmanFrom Megachurch to Multiplication, by Chris GalanosCory Hartman Podcast Interview (Ep 29)Frank Wooden Podcast Interview (Ep 81)GotQuestions.orgRestored ChurchTim@restoredchurch.orgBonus ContentHow To Foster Pastoral Collaboration In Your Town, with Tim WalkerKarl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about how he and other pastors in his town have created a network of ministry collaboration that blesses all churches and reaches the community more effectively.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.

Summary In this episode of the Stoked Up Podcast, hosts Alan Stoddard and Kenneth Priest engage with Karl Vaters, a seasoned pastor and advocate for small churches. The conversation explores the unique challenges and opportunities faced by small church pastors, including misconceptions about growth, the importance of discipleship, and the need for cultural understanding within congregations. Vaters emphasizes that small churches can have a significant impact despite their size and encourages pastors to focus on relationships and community engagement. He also discusses the importance of redefining success in ministry and the value of connecting with other pastors for support and encouragement. Find Karl online at www.karlvaters.com

Karl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.Subjects include:How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired resultsThe importance of discipleshipHow the absence of close relationships makes us more offendableHow church leaders can help those who struggle with being offendedAnd moreChase Replogle is also the author of The 5 Masculine Instincts: A Guide to Becoming a Better Man, and is the host of the Pastor Writer Podcast. He pastors the Bent Oak Church in Springfield, Missouri.Links from this episode:Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer Bonus Content SummaryThe Danger Of The Cult Of Self-affirmationKarl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about the dangers of using self-affirmation as a guide to life and truth. Recent surveys have shown that self-affirmation, and specifically “how I feel at the moment” have widely replaced universal truths in many people's lives.It's also made its way into the church. While 91% of U.S. adults agree that “the best way to find yourself is by looking within yourself,” 76% of practicing Christians agreed with that statement.As Chase wrote in A Sharp Compassion, “Religion has not disappeared from America, as so many feared; instead, it has, like everything from our entertainment to our diets, become personalized. It has shifted from the risk of offense to the affirmation of the self.”

In September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here's how to be one of the churches they find.Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and he has created a free 23-page guide called Trunk-orTreat Planning for Churches: A Step-by-step Guide.Karl and Darrell talk about:The benefits of having a church Trunk-or-TreatPicking a themeWho it's designed to reachWhen to start planningRecruiting volunteersHow to gather info from attendersHow to follow upPodcast Links:Free 23-page Planning Guide with Trunk-or-Treat Ideas for ChurchesThe Gospel Trunk-or-Treat Planning SystemPrevious Darrell Stetler Interview (Ep 38)Also from Darrell Stetler:NewStart Discipleship CurriculumFree New Believer Bible Reading Plan (1 Page PDF)Free audiobook on Discipling Your ChildrenFree NewStart Discipleship Journal: A 54-page Discipleship Bible Study for new Christians.Free one-hour Discipleship Training workshopSocial media:facebook.com/darrellstetler2facebook.com/newstartdiscipleshipyoutube.com/@newstartdiscipleshiptwitter.com/newstartdiscBonus SummaryYes, Your Church Can Do Trunk-or-Treat without Compromising Your Christian Values, with Darrell StetlerIf you have problems with Halloween, I'm right there with you. Not a fan. In this short video, Darrell Stetler and Karl Vaters talk about:Why our churches do a trunk-or-treatThe three attitudes Christians can have toward HalloweenThe misunderstood non-pagan origins of HalloweenWhy it's okay for churches to offer a safe, Bible-based alternative Bonus Content Links:Halloween: A Distinctively Christian HolidayFree 23 Page Planning Guide with

Listen in as the top leading experts in small church ministry, Laurie Acker & Karl Vaters, discuss the church growth movement, post-Covid impact, and the future of smaller congregations.Connect with Karl Vaters: www.karlvaters.comJoin our free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!"