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In this conversation, host Daniel Johnson welcomes Angie Ward to explore the themes of church and parachurch dynamics, the evolution of ecclesiology, and the impact of technology on community. Angie shares her journey of writing her book, Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension, and discusses the historical context of church structures. They delve into the definition of church in today's landscape, emphasizing the importance of embodied community and the role of technology. Angie proposes a new understanding of parachurch as 'missional extensions,' highlighting the interconnectedness of all believers in a global ecosystem. In this conversation, Angie Ward discusses the principles of effective collaboration between churches and parachurch organizations, emphasizing the importance of open-handedness and a kingdom-minded approach. She explores the need for a collaborative ecosystem where different ministries recognize their roles and work together for a greater impact. The discussion also touches on the skepticism some church leaders have towards parachurch ministries and the necessity for these organizations to connect with local churches. Angie reflects on the current changes in the church landscape, likening it to a 'rummage sale' where old structures are being questioned and new opportunities for collaboration are emerging. Finally, she expresses hope for the next generation of leaders who are willing to learn from past mistakes and innovate for the future.Angie Ward (PhD, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She is the author of Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty and I Am a Leader: When Women Discover the Joy of Their Calling. Angie has over thirty-five years of leadership experience in church, nonprofit, and higher education ministry. A sportswriter in a previous life, Angie loves running, basketball, humor, and movies. She and her pastor-husband live in Denver. They have two grown sons and one very spoiled beagle.
It's not your job, but it's also not what the church does. Christians are free to participate in any number of interchurch activities. We are better together than alone. But there must be a clear movement of the ministry toward the centrality of the church for every believer. Why is the priority of the church so important and how can we maintain that?
A Christian's job can also be thought of as a parachurch ministry. It's important to make a distinction between what the church does and what a Christian does, and a distinction between what the gospel is and what the implications of the gospel are. Thus Christians live out their faith in the workplace and around the world while maintaining the primary importance of the work of the church and church planting missionaries.
Churches have two kinds of ministries they operate: essential and support ministries. In this episode, we talk about how to make a distinction between the two and why that is important, along with some potential dangers and some helpful implications. Did you ever consider that your church operates parachurch ministries from within? Perhaps what your church has considered really important should be viewed as a non-essential parachurch support ministry. May all of God's churches be healthy in how we spend our ministry efforts.
Once we understand what the essentials of the church are, then we are able to define a parachurch ministry. The definition proposed in this episode will help us to keep the priority of ministry on the local church. It will help us understand why missions is important for churches as we compare and contrast all churches everywhere. And hopefully, you will be motivated in your own ministry to not exceed its mandate and see how it rightfully sits in submission to the local church.
Getting the church right sets the foundation for understanding all Christian ministry. The church is God's institution for his purpose of global glory. The church is essential and when we see how important the church is, then everything else we do as Christians will fall into place. What is essential for a church?
Christians do a lot of things, most of it on their own as an act of faith that God has given them a ministry. Yet, Jesus warns us that many will claim having done many things in Jesus' name, but Jesus will reject them because he never knew them. How can we sort through what is a Christian ministry and what is not? Before we can answer that question, we must first understand what ministry the church does. Getting the church right will begin to help us sort through the confusion.
Part 3 - The rise of the ‘parachurch' and the role this places in the global Church going forward a chat about discipleship and the big questions about the future of church and what we can learn from our persecuted brothers and sisters. Thanks so much to Adam Holland for joining us for 3 big conversations about the persecuted church.
This lecture centers on the theme of "missio dei," or the mission of God, which emphasizes the church's calling to engage actively in the world as representatives of Christ. Sam, a pastoral staff member, reflects on the current sermon series titled "Vocatio," exploring concepts such as "creatio dei" (creation of God) and "capax dei" (the capacity for God) in relation to the divine mission entrusted to believers. He opens with contextual prayer, appealing for the Holy Spirit to guide the assembly as they delve into this critical topic.The foundation for today's exploration is the Great Commission from Matthew 28:18-20, where Jesus commands His disciples to make disciples of all nations. Sam emphasizes how traditional interpretations often associate this commission with missionary work in distant lands, but he seeks to broaden this understanding. He asserts that every follower of Jesus is also called to be a "sent one," commissioned to live out their faith in various contexts—at home, in the workplace, and within their neighborhoods.Sam references Leslie Newbigin, a prominent British bishop and advocate for the missional church movement, which encourages believers to understand their lives as part of God's redemptive work. He underlines the importance of being adaptable and open to God's calling, echoing the sentiment that the purpose of the church is inherently missional. Drawing on quotes from various theologians, he reinforces the message that followers of Jesus are invited to engage with God's mission by addressing the needs of the community and participating in acts of service.To illustrate practical applications of this mission, Sam shares insights from Dan Wilkinson, the executive director of World Relief Baltimore. Dan discusses the significant role of the church in supporting immigrants and refugees, emphasizing the biblical command to love one's neighbor. His work highlights the tangible impact of the church through initiatives that help settle new arrivals in the community, showcasing how these collaborative efforts embody the Great Commission in action.The dialogue continues with contributions from Megan Bailey, a Young Life leader in Baltimore County. She details her mission of connecting college students with Jesus through relationship-building and outreach efforts. Megan elaborates on creative ways to foster connections with young people and engage them in meaningful discussions about faith, illustrating a vital aspect of Christ's church: the call to shepherd the next generation.Sam continues to unfold the manifold ways in which St. Moses is actively partnering with local organizations, such as Barclay Elementary and various community outreach programs. He encourages congregants to participate in these initiatives, fostering an environment where church members can collectively meet the needs of their community and discover their unique contributions to the mission.Throughout the talk, a recurring theme emerges: the importance of collective action within the church. Sam urges participants to see themselves not merely as individual agents of change but as a cohesive body unified in purpose, leveraging God's resources to meet the myriad needs present in their communities. He concludes with an invitation for all congregants to reflect on their personal calling within the mission of Christ's church, encouraging them to open their hearts to God's guidance as they embark on this journey of faith together.Sam closes with a prayer, again invoking the Holy Spirit's guidance, and reiterates the hopeful message of renewal and reconciliation that defines the church's mission. He underscores the call to be involved actively, inviting attendees to consider how they might respond to the Great Commission in their everyday lives, thus highlighting the vibrancy and accessibility of this divine calling.
A new MP3 sermon from Household of Faith in Christ is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Parachurch Organizations Subtitle: The Faith Debate Speaker: Troy Skinner Broadcaster: Household of Faith in Christ Event: Radio Broadcast Date: 4/18/2010 Length: 26 min.
▶ Splash Page: https://i.mtr.bio/biblebashed ▶ Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/BibleBashed ▶ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMxYyDEvMCq5MzDN36shY3g ▶ Main Episode's playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtY_5efowCOk74PtUhCCkvuHlif5K09v9 ▶ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BibleBashed ▶ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BibleBashed ▶ Twitter: https://twitter.com/BibleBashed In this episode of Bible Bashed, hosts Harrison Kahrig and Pastor Tim Mullet, along with Pastor Conley Owens, delve into the controversial pricing of Ali Beth Stuckey's conference, particularly the $5,000 ticket for backstage access. They explore biblical principles regarding money in ministry, the implications of partiality, and the historical context of charging for church services. The conversation raises critical questions about the ethics of pricing in Christian contexts and the nature of spiritual teaching. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the themes of partiality in scripture, the role of parachurch ministries, and the implications of women teaching in Christian conferences. They discuss the broader applications of biblical teachings, the hypocrisy of charging for spiritual guidance, and the distinction between co-laboring and reciprocity in ministry. The conversation culminates in reflections on the current landscape of Christian conferences and the ethical considerations surrounding them. Takeaways The pricing of Ali Beth Stuckey's conference raises ethical concerns. Biblical principles warn against showing partiality based on wealth. Charging exorbitant fees for spiritual access contradicts Christian teachings. Historical practices like seat rents in churches have been criticized. The nature of what is being sold at conferences is crucial to the discussion. Partiality can manifest in various forms, not just financial. The concept of freely giving what has been freely received is central to Christian teaching. Celebrity culture in Christianity complicates the issue of pricing. Responses to high ticket prices often miss the underlying ethical issues. The conversation highlights the need for transparency in ministry finances. People often misapply scripture to fit their narratives. Scripture is meant for the edification of all, not just select parts. Jesus applied scripture broadly, challenging narrow interpretations. Partiality in church settings can manifest in various ways. Parachurch ministries may enable violations of scriptural principles. Women teaching in conferences raises questions about authority. Charging for spiritual teaching can be seen as hypocritical. Co-laboring in ministry should be prioritized over reciprocity. Conferences should be funded through voluntary donations, not ticket sales. The integrity of Christian teaching must be upheld in all settings. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/biblebashed/support
We sit and talk about ParaChurch ministries and the Pros and cons of them. For more info visit our website. https://4freedompodcast.com For Merch visit this site. https://www.teepublic.com/user/freedom-ministries?utm_source=designer&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Gq_E0abDp_8
In this episode of The Urban Mystic, we explore the often-complicated dynamics of 'church' and 'parachurch'. Engage with us in an insightful discourse as we shift focus from mere institutionalized church functions to the essence of its existence – the people. Discover how terms like 'church' and 'parachurch' have evolved over time, resulting in a complex tapestry of power dynamics and politics. We grapple with the conception of the church being purely a physical institution and highlight the importance of understanding its various functions and activities that fall under the term 'parachurch'. Immerse in spirited discussions around accountability, diversity, and identity within the church and join us as we reimagine a structure that roots its primary accountability in people. Participate in our exploration of societal and cultural evolutions, and their implications. Learn more about bureaucracy's stifling nature and how it appears not only in worldwide governments but also within church institutions. Delve into the concept of 'parachurch' and discover how it can effectively foster divine connections, particularly when traditional frameworks fail to evolve or adapt. Dare to question your perspectives regarding the current structures of church and engage in the possibility of your discomfort providing an avenue for introspection and thus, transformation. Unearth the potential to disrupt unwholesome dynamics, transform relationships, and instigate meaningful change by understanding the true nature of these structures as merely facilitative to a higher purpose. We invite you to explore how shifting focus onto tangible encounters with the divine and a deeper connection with God can foster genuine intimacy and dismantle unhealthy dynamics within institutionalized concepts of faith. Embark on a transformative journey with us and redefine your understanding of the dynamics of church and parachurch, fostering transformative engagement with God and each other. Support Urban Mystic Website | FaceBook| YouTube | PayPal
Parachurch ministries, political causes, and entrepreneurial enterprises seduce good men away from giving their lives to the Church and her pastoral work. How do we attract young men to the work of the Church during the formative years of their lives? College professors successfully shape their students, often in perverse ways. Why do pastors lack a similar zeal? What must pastors do to identify and draw men into working with Christ's sheep? As mentioned in the show, please check out the Psalm setting by My Soul Among Lions. Out of Our Minds Podcast: Pastors Who Say What They Think. For the love of Christ and His Church.Out of Our Minds is a production of New Geneva Academy. Are you interested in preparing for ordained ministry with pastors? Have a desire to grow in your knowledge and fear of God? Apply at www.newgenevaacademy.com.Master of DivinityBachelor of DivinityCertificate in Bible & TheologyGroundwork: The Victory of Christ & The Great ConversationIntro and outro music is Psalm of the King, Psalm 21 by My Soul Among Lions.Out of Our Minds audio, artwork, episode descriptions, and notes are property of New Geneva Academy and Warhorn Media, published with permission by Transistor, Inc. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
The parachurch was an innovation of entrepreneurially-minded Christians during the twentieth century. They considered the Church to be old and in the way. Efficiency was the gospel need of the day, so cumbersome mechanisms like denominations, ordination, and church discipline were bypassed. Pastor Bayly and Andrew Henry discuss the rise of the parachurch, the glory of the Church, and how reforming the Church—with all its ugly but necessary division and doctrinal distinctions—is the genuine need of the day.Read Bayly's The Church ReformedOut of Our Minds Podcast: Pastors who say what they think. For the love of Christ and His Church.Out of Our Minds is a production of New Geneva Academy. Are you interested in preparing for ordained ministry with pastors? Have a desire to grow in your knowledge and fear of God? Apply at www.newgenevaacademy.com.Master of DivinityBachelor of DivinityCertificate in Bible & TheologyGroundwork: The Victory of Christ & The Great ConversationIntro and outro music is Psalm of the King, Psalm 21 by My Soul Among Lions.Out of Our Minds audio, artwork, episode descriptions, and notes are property of New Geneva Academy and Warhorn Media, published with permission by Transistor, Inc. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
There is usually a tipping point where the ministry (and usually it's a corporation) gets big and the woman who founded it needs to re-evaluate her goals and realistically decide what to do next. It has been my contention that the above named women, and others, made the wrong choice. They invested themselves in their growing ministry, which inevitably took them away from their Godly role at home and church, and they became celebrities, with all that entails, which is usually negative.Read on to find out one woman who gave it up at its tipping point, in favor of her submission to elders, home, and her sphere. Links: Brooke Bartz' announcement about her online conference THE END TIME- The Issue with Parachurch organizations, especially ones founded by womenThe problem with parachurch organizationsI'm suspicious of parachurch organizations. Here's whyMany Christian Celebrity Moms are Distorting Biblical Motherhood; Part 1Are there too many conferences? Music attribution Track New York Music by https://www.fiftysounds.com Track London Music by https://www.fiftysounds.com
Glen Scrivener interviews Mikey Lynch about his new book 'The Vine Movement: Supporting gospel growth beyond your church'.See 321: http://321course.com/Subscribe to the Speak Life YouTube channel for videos which see all of life with Jesus at the centre:youtube.com/SpeakLifeMediaSubscribe to the Reformed Mythologist YouTube channel to explore how the stories we love point to the greatest story of all:youtube.com/@ReformedMythologistDiscord is an online platform where you can interact with the Speak Life team and other Speak Life supporters. There's bonus content, creative/theological discussion and lots of fun. Join our Discord here:speaklife.org.uk/giveContact the show: info@speaklife.org.ukSpeak Life is a UK based charity that resources the church to reach the world.Learn more about us here:speaklife.org.ukSupport the show
[00:00:00] John Sommerville: I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people. And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is people who really love us and care for us and will do both. They will tell us and give us positive affirmation when we need it, and they will tell us the truth when we need to hear it, even if it's uncomfortable. +++++++++++++++++ [00:00:27] Tommy Thomas: Today, we're continuing the conversation we began last week with John Somerville. John is the Vice President for Finance and Operations and the Chief Financial Officer at The University of Northwestern St. Paul. John has served as the Board Chair at InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and currently serves on the Board of Trustees of Christianity Today. Some things you probably won't learn about John from the internet include he's an avid reader, reading on average 50 plus books a year. He's an avid runner. He's completed six marathons, including the 2019 Boston Marathon, and more than 20 half marathons. And he's the author of Making Room for Christmas, a Collection of 10 Original Christmas stories. John has served in senior leadership with four different organizations and has done a lot of hiring. On the flip side, he has had to release people along the way. I'm always curious about any magic bullets that leaders might have around successful hiring and necessary firing. Let's pick up the conversation there. [00:01:39] Tommy Thomas: Have you got a favorite or a go-to interview question? [00:01:43] John Sommerville: I don't have a question. I have a category of questions. I like to ask behavioral questions. In other words, what did you do? I like to hear what people have done. Now, I don't actually ask many questions like, tell me about yourself, what do you like or what are your qualities. Because I think people can develop answers to those that are not grounded in what they actually are. They're aspirational. They may say, I'm innovative or I'm a strong leader. I like to ask questions about things they've done and hear through that what I think they may do again in the future. [00:02:20] Tommy Thomas: You know I found in my business, it's easier said than done to get a hiring committee to do that. One of my favorite ways of going at that is I tell them to circle the action verbs on somebody's resume and then peel back the layers of the onion. What did that look like? But I never cease to be amazed that people don't want to do that. It's interesting that you develop that early in your career. [00:02:47] John Sommerville: Tommy, one of the things that I've appreciated about you and your organization is these motivated abilities, the kinds of surveys that you do. I think that's really wise because measuring qualities, whether it's introversion and extroversion, whether it's, whatever the test you have, if it just measures things that qualities about a person, you're still not getting at what are they going to do if I give them a job? [00:03:14] Tommy Thomas: So, you've given somebody a job, and for some reason, it didn't work out. What goes into your decision to terminate somebody and maybe what have you found to be the best way to do it? Hire slow, Fire fast! [00:03:26] John Sommerville: I think you hire slow, fire fast. I have to confess that I have found performance improvement plans virtually worthless. In other words, we do them because sometimes maybe we believe we need to do them legally, or in some other way we need to be fair. Maybe we've delayed too long in giving feedback we should have given earlier. I think if I've made any mistake in leadership and managing people over time, it's sometimes I'm too patient. I sometimes assume that this person's going to catch hold, but once we determine as leaders that someone is the wrong fit or doesn't have the abilities I think we need to call it quits. The other thing that I try to discern is their willingness and ability. What is it that is getting in the way? And if it's ability or skills, I'm more willing to be patient and let the person try to give the person the coaching they need. I once worked with someone who was struggling with our boss. And he and I were runners, and we were on a run together and he was complaining to me about our mutual boss and why he didn't get along. And halfway through the run, I said to him, you know what? I said the issue here isn't your ability to do what he wants you to do. It's your willingness. You don't want to do this. You don't like the direction he wants to take your role in the organization. And by the end of the run, he said, you're right. And he began to make a transition out of the organization. Discerning those things is really important. [00:05:00] Tommy Thomas: Let's go back to hiring for a minute. In this litigious world that we live in, what credence or stock do you place in reference checking? [00:05:10] John Sommerville: Some, but people choose who they give you. I try to ask questions that I think can get beyond the surface. In other words, I try actually not to ask as many open-ended questions as you might imagine. And I try to ask questions that get at, have they had conflict with someone? How did they resolve it? Have you watched them fail? And what did you learn from them in that instance? I try to ask questions that are as behavioral as possible and I may ask what are their greatest accomplishments, but also what things didn't they get done for you or what do you think they need to improve on? And sometimes they can't answer because they don't really know. The other thing that I do is if I know anybody who's in any way connected to them. If it's not on the resume, it's not a ref on their reference. I may call them anyway. I may say hey I'm talking to so and I think you know them. I noticed on LinkedIn you're connected to them. Can you tell me anything about them? I'll go beyond the list of references to find out what I can about people. [00:06:18] Tommy Thomas: Where were you in your career when you felt like you were comfortable in your leadership skin, when you were comfortable that you were a leader? [00:06:28] John Sommerville: I think that I would say that in some ways, I don't know that we should ever get too comfortable. I think I have learned over the years things that I do well and things that I don't do well, and that's become clear over time. And so I would say that I got more comfortable maybe particularly early in the years that I was leading the church that we planted. And I would say during my time at General Mills, I was around a lot of great leaders, and I was young. And so, I probably felt more unsettled, or I was still learning and feeling and learning what I do well. But I've always found that every year I have a new insight, a different way of understanding what it is I do best. Try to do those things as much as I can and things I don't do as well. Try to either work to remediate or try to find somebody else who can complement me in that area. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:07:22] Tommy Thomas: I'd like to get you to respond to a few quotes and then I want to go over into board work because board work is at the crux of the nonprofit sector. So, here's a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King. The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of convenience, but where they stand in moments of challenge, moments of great crisis and controversy. I think that it is easy to lead when things are going well and much more difficult when things are not going well, and I think that we need to learn to be able to lead when we have less than full information, when things are murky. [00:07:47] John Sommerville: I think that it is easy to lead when things are going well and much more difficult when things are not going well, and I think that we need to learn to be able to lead when we have less than full information, when things are murky and sometimes that means pausing and waiting, not making a decision impulsively, and sometimes it means, like I mentioned with the elevator and our president, our division president, you just need to do something. So sometimes leaders have to give direction. You mentioned authenticity earlier. There are times when being too authentic can be unsettling for people. I felt like that at the beginning of COVID. And yet I knew I needed to lead with clarity and direction on what we were going to do as a church. And I'm sure many leaders felt unsettled. The future was not certain. So sometimes it's beginning to move in a direction and then improvise as you go. [00:08:44] Tommy Thomas: Here's one from C. S. Lewis. Pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains. It's his megaphone to rouse a deaf world. [00:09:02] John Sommerville: One of the things that I've become more grateful for, and this will sound like an oxymoron, but I've become grateful for times of hurt and pain in the sense that they lead us toward growth. And also times when I feel inadequate. One of the things I told my wife a couple of years ago was that I'd gone through a season where I felt I had to live in daily dependence just because of what was going on around me. And I left that season and moved into a time where things felt a lot better. And I told her the one thing I did miss from that difficult time was that sense of dependence, daily dependence I had upon God. And I think that pain focuses us on things that we might need to change. Difficulty drives us to depend upon God. And I think whenever we begin to feel like we're adequate we're putting ourselves in a dangerous place because we're beginning to reassert our own control on living outside of the dependence that we need to have upon God. [00:10:09] Tommy Thomas: Here's one from Rob Hoskins. He's the CEO of One Hope. Surround yourself with people who know you better than you know yourself and will tell you the truth out of love. This is how we grow. I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people. And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is, and some of it has to do with people who really love us and care for us and will do both. [00:10:24] John Sommerville: I was talking to somebody recently who was saying that you should never surround yourself with people who are just yes people. And I said to him, you don't want to surround yourself with people who are no people either. What we need is, and some of it has to do with people who really love us and care for us and will do both. They will tell us and give us positive affirmation when we need it, and they will tell us the truth when we need to hear it, even if it's uncomfortable. And we all need people who have permission, and we give permission to speak that way into our lives. We will not grow. We will not have the perspective we need to have if we don't have people like that in our lives. And sometimes our spouses play that role, sometimes another leader, sometimes a friend. And I've had that and try to maintain that in my life all the time. Somebody just that I work with, a peer here, about three weeks ago said, by the way, John, and he then listed something he had observed, and he said, I think you need to do less of that. Absolutely right. And really helpful. [00:11:28] Tommy Thomas: Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they'll surprise you with their ingenuity. General George Patton. [00:11:38] John Sommerville: It's interesting that would come from Patton. My perception of him was he was a pretty directive leader. But I do think that what we need to tell people is what's the outcome we're looking for. There are a lot of different ways to accomplish things. And most of the time if we prescribe it, we may find that we're either thwarting an innovation that we might not have thought of, or we're asking somebody to do something and be a clone. So be very clear about the deliverable, and the outcome that you're looking for, and then let the process unfold. Now, the exception to that is somebody who's brand new. Sometimes what you need to do is do it with them. Watch them do it and then release them to do it. And that may take a little time. [00:12:19] Tommy Thomas: Sticking with our military theme and preparing for battle, I've always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. President Dwight David Eisenhower. [00:12:31] John Sommerville: Once I had heard someone say that what we ought to develop is not plans, but fuzzy plans. And I think that the principle is what Eisenhower is getting at. And that is that what a plan provides is a general direction, but if you prescribe it as a step one, two, three, like a YouTube video telling you how to replace a lock or something what you'll find is that if you run into a challenge, something's broken or something's not right, then you're stuck. What we need to do is provide general guidance but let that plan unfold and improvise as we go. The best leaders do that in a way where they can lead even in the midst of uncertainty. [00:13:13] Tommy Thomas: When you're sitting around the table with your leadership team, you never want to be the smartest person at the table. [00:13:19] John Sommerville: You know the genius with a thousand helpers, or five helpers eventually will find the limits of their abilities. They'll find the limits of their wisdom but if you create a culture where there is collaboration, even if the leader is the smartest person in the room they are never going to be smart enough to see everything. So there always needs to be an openness to ideas. If you continually squash the ideas of others, you'll not be as effective. I think collaboration, developing diverse teams, and listening before acting is extremely important. [00:13:58] Tommy Thomas: Peter Drucker, the most important thing in communication is to hear what isn't being said. [00:14:06] John Sommerville: I think that's true. I think that this is one of the problems in this soundbite era. When we develop talking points, as we listen to what leaders, organizations and others say they're trying to shape a message. It's important to listen for what's not being said, and this is one of the problems we have, I think, with the lack of sustained reflection that this digital age has led us to, where you can summarize everything in a couple hundred characters, we miss a lot of nuances. It's important to ask questions that maybe go beyond what's being said. [00:14:41] Tommy Thomas: Problems cannot be solved at the same level of thinking at which they were created. Albert Einstein. [00:14:49] John Sommerville: I've not heard that one before. I don't know what Einstein meant, but I can think of two ways that is true. One is that sometimes the problem is created at a level where there needs to be more detail and more understanding of what really is going on. A quote that I've used a lot and I found to be true is that there is simplicity on the near side of complexity that is overly simplistic. And then there's simplicity on the far side of complexity that takes in account all the complexity and finds a way to work beyond it. It may be that what Einstein's talking about is the idea that sometimes you need to dive deep into the details. And other times you need to lift yourself above the details to be able to see the big picture. And both need to be incorporated into good decision-making. But it's easy to get lost in the trees. And it's sometimes easy also at the same time to maybe lift yourself too high so you don't see. Some of the nuance and the details that are there. +++++++++++++++++ [00:15:49] Tommy Thomas: Let's switch over to board governance and board service. I know you've served on, I won't say countless, but certainly many boards. And I would imagine you've probably chaired two or three of them. When you think of a Board of Directors or Board of Trustees, what's their purpose? The purpose of the Board is to nurture and shepherd the mission of the institution. [00:16:02] John Sommerville: Their purpose is to nurture and shepherd the mission of the institution. And the people who are running the organization need to be managing and leading and all of that. But the board needs to do what it can to make certain that the mission is continuing. There's not mission drift that the organization continues to fulfill its purposes. When they see either a leader leading the organization away from its mission or being ineffective at accomplishing its mission they need to intervene. But they need to be leading at a governance level, making certain that the systems and structures are in place. So, the organization is equipped to accomplish what it needs to accomplish. [00:16:46] Tommy Thomas: When you think of the best board chair you've ever observed or served under, give me some words and phrases that describe that person. [00:16:53] John Sommerville: The people I've seen lead well are very clear about the difference between management and governance. They're very clear about keeping the conversation at the level of mission, vision, and values. They are very good at keeping the organization accountable. Particularly the senior executive. That's the linking pin between the board and the administration. And they are I think relentless about making certain that the board functions really well and doesn't start inserting itself. I've been on a couple of occasions around a board that was really a group of friends who liked hanging out together and they were they weren't paying attention, and then I've been in other boards, and this is probably more common, where they were trying to reach down into management and meddle, and that's ineffective and inappropriate. [00:17:52] Tommy Thomas: Maybe this goes back to your earlier comment you may know Dr. Rebecca Basinger she says, Governing Boards are charged with safeguarding an institution's ability to fulfill its mission with economic vitality. To this I add, responsibility for tending to the soul of the institution. [00:18:12] John Sommerville: I think that I would put it slightly differently. I think that there needs to be a heart in all that we do. This is not original with me, but the idea of orthodoxy. Ortho in Greek is the word for straight, and so orthodoxy is straight doctrine or, right doctrine. And then you often hear people talk about orthopraxy, that there also needs to be these actions that are consistent with your doctrinal position. But the third, which is a neologism, is orthopathy. Path, pathos is the word for passions or even the heart. All three need to be there in an organization. So there needs to be right, if you think about a Christian, we need right doctrine, we need right behavior. And we also need the right heart. And I have been around boards or been around, say, a church board or so, where people had all the right doctrine, they were focused on the right kinds of behavior, but they didn't really have a passion for the church or the ministry that they're leading. All three need to be there and the best boards that I've been around really believe in the mission of the organization, they're clear about the kinds of behaviors they want to see, and they also love it. They just love that organization or that church. And they want to see it achieve what it's meant to achieve. [00:19:37] Tommy Thomas: The Chair and the CEO must learn to dance together, and neither can stray very far from each other's gaze or proceed independently. The Chair and the CEO need to be able to find a balance between the accountability that the chair provides and the nurture and support and really encouragement and having that CEO or that board the organization's president's back. [00:19:49] John Sommerville: I have seen CEOs and Board Chairs have a relationship that is just incredible. And I think that the Chair and the CEO need to be able to find a balance between the accountability that the chair provides and the nurture and support and really encouragement and having that CEO or that board the organization's president's back. Leadership can be lonely, and a board chair can make a significant difference. Now, if the CEO gets out of line, the board chair is going to need to bring that kind of discipline and structure to it, but too many chairs either go to the extreme of not holding the organization leader accountable, but more often what they do is they forget that they need to be that cheerleader, encourager and support to help protect that leader. And I've seen board chairs do that in really effective ways. [00:20:48] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to board size. This guy, Ernest Happel, said the fewer board members, the better. If it's 18, I'm just not interested. [00:20:56] John Sommerville: I think it depends on the organization, but I do think that there is a critical mass. You can get too small. Four or five, or six is probably too small for most boards in part, because if it has any geographic scope, if it's a national board, you're going to have a few that don't show up each time. But once you get beyond eight or ten, what happens is you think you're increasing participation, but you're actually decreasing participation. Because some people are either quiet or feel ill at ease speaking up when there are twelve or fifteen on a board. So your participation will go down. If you can, eight to 10 is I think the ideal size. Beyond that, I think it's a problem, but there are boards that do that are larger, if the philanthropic needs of the organization if you have people who are significantly investing financially in the organization and want to be active in a positive way. I think boards that are larger, particularly educational institutions tend to have larger boards for that reason. So I would say generally that's true, but not always. +++++++++++++++ [00:22:04] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to succession planning. That's something in my experience that not enough organizations do enough of in a timely way. I recently heard a nonprofit CEO say, “When they want you to stay is the best time to leave”. [00:22:20] John Sommerville: I think that there needs to be constant conversation with the CEO about the future. And sometimes they couch it as if you're hit by a bus, who would you recommend? That's the rudimentary way to approach that. That's really a transitional leader that you identify. But I think once a leader has been in an organization for four or five years there needs to be a beginning conversation about how's your energy. How are you feeling about this? The leader owes the organization enough time and it depends on the size and the mission of the institution, but sometimes that's a year or two years to say, I'm starting to sense from the Spirit that it's time for me to move on. And I'm not sure exactly when that will be. And then you have a conversation that begins to lead toward a transition. An orderly transition is invaluable in an organization when someone abruptly quits and there isn't that time and it's the responsibility of both the chief executive and the board itself to initiate that conversation. It can be hard because sometimes a leader is offended believing that question is coming because the board wants them to move on so it needs to be very carefully broached or vice versa the board believes that this person has lost interest in the job, and there needs to be some dialogue, but that transparency and honesty is both owed to each other. [00:23:50] Tommy Thomas: Once the decision's been made, from your observation, how much time should go between the announcement and the new person being hired or promoted? [00:24:00] John Sommerville: I think it's different in different organizations. Churches sometimes need a gap, an intentional gap between the previous leader, especially if that person's been there for a long time, whether it's a founding pastor or a long-time successful pastor, there may need to be a gap and an intentional interim can be helpful. That's not always the way it is in para-church organizations and nonprofit organizations. There will need to be a time when you actually start the search. If the leader can stay through a transition, that can be really helpful. But generally, I think it takes about a year to do that process from the time that it's being announced. How long it takes to develop a new position profile and understand what the organization needs of its next leader may be a little different than the current leader. To be able to generate that, to be able to sort through possible candidates and make that it's generally, I would think, a year that's been my observation. [00:24:57] Tommy Thomas: Let's talk about the pros and cons of grooming and promoting from within versus hiring from the outside. See if you can debate both sides of that coin. [00:25:09] John Sommerville: I think the fork in the road has to do with what does the organization need? I do believe that many of the best transitions are internal candidates. They know the organization. If they are ready to take the step of moving up into that senior leader role, they already have trust. They already have experience. They understand things. And that can be, I would often lean in that direction. I think that's often the best way to go. But you can't compromise on what you need out of that next leader. And if that person doesn't exist in the organization, then an external candidate can be important. I think the other thing is if things are going well we definitely would lean toward an internal candidate, but if things have somehow gone off the rails for one reason or another, there's a significant challenge, then sometimes an external leader can be necessary. I will say that my observation is that insiders have a tendency to be slightly more successful than outsiders. There's just something about knowing the organization, both for the leader and for the organization. There's something about that knowledge of who you are and who the organization is that can be more. [00:26:28] Tommy Thomas: What about this idea that the CEO stays around as an emeritus or in some role? [00:26:34] John Sommerville: I'm not a fan of that. I think that that can feel like a cloud over a leader. I have seen cases emeritus. And what they do. I've heard of organizations where the Parachurch organization once I heard about where the previous president came to board meetings and expressed his opinion and the new leader took several years to be able to really assert his leadership. That was not healthy. Generally, I think in a church it's good for a pastor who's leaving to separate and allow the new leader to begin to take the organization in a direction that might be a new direction. And parachurch organizations, I think the same thing. I'm not a fan of that. [00:27:23] Tommy Thomas: Before COVID, I spoke several times to non-profits about succession planning, and one of the areas we talked about was the departing leader. One of my observations is that there's probably a lot more of the departing leader's identity tied up CEO than he or she might realize. Your observations. [00:27:42] John Sommerville: I think that is often true. I think that's a discipleship issue where I think all leaders need to be aware of how much their identity can get wrapped up in what they do, what they achieve, and what they accomplish. And our identity needs to be in Christ. I heard a leader one time say after leaving the organization that he was responsible for, he said, I no longer feel relevant. And I was disappointed to hear that. Now, I'm not judging him. I'm sure that's a process that I'll go through as I move into the next chapter of my life. But I think we need to teach people that they are more than what they do. And I think it's unfortunate if that happens, but I can see as a human we do get identified with what we do. But it's not healthy most likely. [00:28:37] Tommy Thomas: So, if you get a call this week from somebody in the Twin Cities and they've been encouraged to join a board of a XYZ nonprofit they're coming to you for counsel. What questions are you asking them or what questions do you want to make sure they get answered? [00:28:55] John Sommerville: I would ask them first, is this an organization that you're passionate about? Do you support them financially already? Is this an organization where you respect the leadership? Do you feel like you have something to offer? Is this an organization that you're willing to give a few years to, because sometimes people say, I might do it for a year, just a year, just to figure out the basics of the organization. I once was asked to join a board and the person who was assigned to be my mentor, I asked him, I said what's required on this board? He said it's really an easy board. He said I get on an airplane, and I read the board book on the way to the meeting. And then you go sit in committee meetings. It's really easy. It's the board I have to invest the least in. And I thought I'm not interested in this. And I found out when I got there that he was an ineffective board member and the best board members were really investing time. Don't go on a board unless you're willing to do some work, unless you're willing to spend the time to give it what it needs. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:30:04] Tommy Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. If you are a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. You can find links to all the episodes at our website. www.JobfitMatters.com/podcast. If there are topics that you'd like for me to explore my email address is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com. Word of mouth has been identified as the most valuable form of marketing. Surveys tell us that consumers believe recommendations from friends and family over all other forms of advertising. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on, please share it with others. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. I'll be back next week with a new episode. Until then stay the course on our journey to help make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable. Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn
An age-old tension within many churches is the extent to which they can or should join in with the reams of "para-church" organizations, mission agencies, charities, and evangelistic enterprises that do not fall under the governance of the Church but often seem to be far more fruitful in mission. Whilst the answer may seem obvious, it brings up far more questions and connects to numerous related issues. What is a church? Is it any group of faithful believers who happen to be on mission together within a given context? Do we even have a Biblical precedent for para-church? If we give our best energies to organizations beyond the Church, does this not undermine the local church's missional purpose? How can para-church enthusiasts retain a genuine love for and commitment to the local church whilst pioneering new ventures beyond it? Can local churches do more to support para-churches too? How might church leaders be challenged to be less territorial, recovering the apostolic heart for mission both within and beyond their local context? All this and more on this packed episode of Pod of the Gaps! RESOURCES: - Terry Virgo, Restoration in the Church (Kingsway, 1985) - Rhys Laverty, "Pastors all the Way Down" The New Albion Pastors All the Way Down? - by Rhys Laverty (substack.com) - Jon Bloom, "What is a Parachurch Ministry?" https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-a-parachurch-ministry - https://www.solas-cpc.org/about/ - https://www.spuc.org.uk/About-Us/What-We-Do
Whether we are the senior pastor, theological college lecturer, missionary, student worker, Christian publisher, or denominational leader - we all work within an evangelical ecosystem.And it's possible for us to make it harder or easier for our ministry peers to play their part in glorifying God. Mikey Lynch's new book The Vine Movement, published by Matthias Media (https://bit.ly/vinemovement), explores how churches, missionary organisations, evangelical student ministries, chaplains and denominations can all work together best.Mikey Lynch is a director of Reach Australia, leads the AFES staff team at the University in Hobart and is the editorial director for Gospel Coalition Australia. Support the show--To make a one off contribution to support The Pastor's Heart's ministry go to this link, or to become a regular Patreon supporter click here.
How should we view parachurch ministries through the context of the local church? What are some issues these types of ministries have? What is a better solution? Have a listen and hear our thoughts.JOIN THE PODLUCK: https://www.patreon.com/reformatorypodVisit us here: https://www.reformatorypod.comMukwano Coffee: https://www.mukwanocoffee.com (Use promo code "reformatory" for 20% off your order).Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reformatorypodTwitter: https://twitter.com/reformatorypod
A new MP3 sermon from Household of Faith in Christ is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Pitfalls for Christ of Parachurch Groups Subtitle: The Faith Debate Speaker: Troy Skinner Broadcaster: Household of Faith in Christ Event: Radio Broadcast Date: 6/3/2012 Length: 26 min.
In this episode with Conley Owens, we discuss his book on the Dorean Principle. The Dorean Principle, which is based on biblical concepts related to generosity and giving, takes aim at the commercialization of Christianity in the church today. We discuss the disruptive nature of such a principle as it pertains to conferences, seminaries, weddings, and para-church ministries. Owens even goes so far as to criticize the host's Patreon tiers based on the Dorean Principle! Enjoy!Conley Owens is a Pastor at Silicon Valley Reformed Baptist Church - https://svrbc.org/Get a copy of The Dorean Principle: A Biblical Response to the Commercialization of Christianity here - https://thedoreanprinciple.org/Conley Owen's bio from website - “Conley Owens is a software engineer by day, but hopes one day to do the work of a pastor full-time. He is the husband of one wife and the father of eight children. He enjoys cooperative games, couch surfing, casual skateboarding, and other peculiar activities. He has been a member of SVRBC since 2010, and a pastor since 2019.Conley was saved at an early age when he learned that blaming others for his sins didn't actually fix anything. Instead, he trusted in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ and found true forgiveness. He discovered Reformed theology in college after accidentally getting involved with a cult and realizing he needed a better grasp on what the Bible teaches to keep such things from happening again.”Support the showSign up for the Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/chasedavisFollow Full Proof Theology on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/fullprooftheology/Follow Full Proof Theology on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fullprooftheology/
Can a woman lead a parachurch ministry?
Can a woman lead a parachurch ministry--
Increasingly, parachurch ministries are allowing women to occupy positions of spiritual authority once reserved for men. Do they have biblical warrant to do so?
Increasingly, parachurch ministries are allowing women to occupy positions of spiritual authority once reserved for men. Do they have biblical warrant to do so?This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/3279340/advertisement
Increasingly, parachurch ministries are allowing women to occupy positions of spiritual authority once reserved for men. Do they have biblical warrant to do so?This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/3279343/advertisement
Increasingly, parachurch ministries are allowing women to occupy positions of spiritual authority once reserved for men. Do they have biblical warrant to do so?
Increasingly, parachurch ministries are allowing women to occupy positions of spiritual authority once reserved for men. Do they have biblical warrant to do so?This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4064350/advertisement
In this episode Oren Martin, Caitlin Van Wagoner, and guest Blake Holmes bring it back to the basics of the Church: the Church's purpose, structure, and history. Scripture: Acts 20:28, Hebrews, Acts 2, Matthew 16:15-23, Revelation 20, Ephesians 6:12, Leviticus 10 References and Helpful Links: Martin Luther's 7 Characteristics of the Church What is the Parachurch? A Christian faith-based organization which carries out its mission usually independent of church oversight Regulative Principle The Institutes of the Christian Religion Book 4 by John Calvin Oren's 100 Word Definition of the Church: 100 word definition of the church: The church is the new covenant people of God, brought about by the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, consists of local gatherings of baptized believers, and is indwelt and gifted by the Holy Spirit to know, serve and glorify her Triune God. Her ministries include proclaiming the whole gospel of God, administering the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's Supper, and exercising church discipline. Her purpose is worship, discipleship, and missions as she makes the gospel visible and proclaims the gospel to the nations. Her biblical offices are elders/pastors (biblically qualified men) and deacons (biblically qualified men and women). Learn more about Watermark Community Church at watermark.org
Interested in further study of the Bible? Join us at Logos Bible Software. Are you interested in a rigorous and Reformed seminary education? Call Westminster Seminary California at 888-480-8474 or visit www.wscal.edu! Please help support the show on our Patreon Page! BEST OF SEASON 4 (4) Join the Guilt Grace Gratitude Podcast as we revisit your favorite episodes from Season 4, continuing with a discussion about parachurch ministries! Irwyn Ince (DMin., Covenant Theological Seminary) is Coordinator of the PCA MNAand Adjunct Professor of Pastoral Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary. Have Feedback or Questions? Email us at: guiltgracepod@gmail.com Find us on Instagram: @guiltgracepod Follow us on Twitter: @guiltgracepod Find us on YouTube: Guilt Grace Gratitude Podcast Please rate and subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you use! Looking for a Reformed Church? North American Presbyterian & Reformed Churches --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/gggpodcast/support
In this episode mentor and good friend Chase Wagner joins Nick to discuss his decades of experience with parachurch ministries, and to ask the question, are parachurch ministries effective? Do they push forward the kingdom of God? Or are they getting in the way of the church? Chase served with Youth for Christ for over a decade and currently serves as the Executive Director of Greater Fort Wayne campus Ministries. Please welcome Chase Wagner to The Outlet! If you enjoyed the episode go ahead and leave a rating/review! Follow us on Instagram! @the_outletpodcast
The Man & The Mission Panel 4 - Manley, Robertson, Kirkland, Logsdon, Parks
[00:00:00] Doug Nuenke: We did a Grati-tour. That's what we called it, a Grati-tour. We took five months, and we traveled around the country. We didn't get to see everybody, but we stopped in major cities and big places where we had groupings of navigators, and we let them decide what they wanted it to look like. In some cases, a small group of people around a dinner table. In other cases, they pulled a big group of people together and had me speak. But the number one job for me, or what God had put on our heart was just to go around and say thank you. [00:00:31] Tommy Thomas: When you became the president and CEO of the Navigators what was the biggest surprise about the job? I think the biggest surprise was that everything I really needed to know I learned in kindergarten [00:00:38] Doug Nuenke: It was not my experience as a leader leading in the navigators and other ministries before that, or, the skills I had developed. The gifting that God had given me, it was the simple things that I learned as a young believer to depend on God, to trust holy in Him, to clinging to him, to abide in Jesus and to be rooted in the scriptures and what God teaches us there. And then to serve. To love people to do things like, will you forgive me? I screwed up, or, thank you. Wow. Your contribution. That was such an amazing contribution. The things that we learned to kindergarten, learn, treating one another, the way we wanna be treated, those kind of things. Things that we learn as a baby believer were the most important things. That's what I needed to do when I first started, but all through my tenure is what God calls us to, and sometimes we can forget those things. , [00:01:53] Tommy Thomas: What was the hardest decision you ever had to make as the leader of The Navigators? I think the hardest decisions were always people decisions and personnel decisions. To have to do what Henry Cloud calls, bring about necessary endings [00:01:57] Doug Nuenke: where someone had to move out of a contribution that they had held for a while and that they weren't ready to move out of that contribution. It's painful. It was, and it's difficult because who of us signs up for leadership because we wanna bring pain or hardship to someone. We don't want to do that, but at the same time it's what God calls us as leaders to be involved with is have to make some of those hard decisions painful. [00:02:43] Tommy Thomas: Let's talk about risk? What's the biggest risk that you and the navigators took under your leadership and how did it turn out? [00:02:51] Doug Nuenke: That's a great question. I think probably the greatest risk during my tenure. Would've been fanning the flame of diversity and different ways of seeing The Navigator ministry, and at the same time trying to bring unity around a new strategic plan. I mean it's, we had to do it, no question, but it was risky because it could have really been easy to just let everyone do their part. The thing that they love doing. I think a lot of Parachurch Ministries are very decentralized and people have a lot of freedom to do ministry in the way that they like to do ministry. And I think, one of the riskiest things that other ministries as well, but I think for us as Navigators is say, that's great. We're gonna have a lot of creativity and entrepreneurial energy that's out there, but we're gonna all together head. This direction. And we're gonna measure our success not just on what we do in all these different creative ways out here, that we do things a little differently, but we're gonna actually measure our success around this one thing that we do that makes us. And it's risky because Parachurch Ministries is Max Dupree. I love his little book. Leading Without Power. Parachurch Ministries are, he would call volunteer organizations to one degree or another. People come as volunteers and anytime you decide to as leaders to really lead and say, that's great, but no, we're gonna do this now. Anytime you do that's because you've got, you have to win and woo people together into a certain direction. Yeah. Learned a lot over the years. Moving into that, [00:04:59] Tommy Thomas: You mentioned strategic planning a minute ago. What did that look like under your administration? [00:05:05] Doug Nuenke: In the spirit of all humility, I would say that in my early years it was really margin. I learned a lot. I think we had, there were, I could, we could do a, we could do a session about strategic planning and all the lessons I learned by making mistake sometime, Tommy. But I think we grew in it and we grew to the place where the current strategic plan the navigators have, has everyone on the same page with a grand vision, a God size goal hat we all are pulling for. And I think that's the goal, that's the goal of a good strategic plan, is it energizes the whole. . . And I would say that in early in my tenure, we had some great goals that we were giving ourselves to that, to, that were helpful, that were really helpful and moved forward, but they moved pieces forward rather than moving the hole forward. And we learned a lot over the years on that. I'm glad to see. [00:06:06] Tommy Thomas: If we could go back a couple of years and you were to have invited me to one of your staff meetings and I got a chance to talk to your staff, and then maybe we excused you and I got a chance to ask them what they thought would've been the most challenging thing about working for Doug. What do you think I would've heard? [00:06:25] Doug Nuenke: In one case it probably would depend on who you talked with. Probably different team members would've a different perspective on that, and I'm sure they all would've had a perspective because I, I have strengths and I have weaknesses. But I probably all together, probably what they would say was, would be, there's always something new, new mountains to. New ideas to try. or a new change to bring improvement. So I think early on probably it would've been like, oh man, we can't keep, we can't keep bringing a new change every month. I would say that would be one of the things that if you got 'em alone, they would've said and they would've been right. [00:07:07] Tommy Thomas: Where does that new come from? In your spirit, what makes you seek the new? [00:07:13] Doug Nuenke: On the positive side of it, I would say is God's a God of new things. He's always creating. He hasn't quit creating behold, and Isaiah 43, verse 19, but behold, I'm gonna do a new thing. And so I think it's a passion for the new things that God is doing - there's a whole other dark side. Anytime there's such a light side our leadership, there's always a dark side. We don't need to get into that right now, but I'm sure there's things that keep me fidgety to want to do the new things rather than to continue to build the things that are going on. [00:07:49] Tommy Thomas: If I would've asked him what would be the most rewarding thing about working for you? What answers would [00:07:54] Doug Nuenke: I hear? I think the answers would be team, the fact that they felt they were part of a group of people that were on mission together and loved one another and had memories together. For instance, our team, our executive team and spouses every year would do a retreat together where we would go and make memories together. Whether it was you. Train rides, four wheeling together eating great meals together, being developed together. I think that's one of 'em. The team always enjoyed that I had a high value for entrusting and investing in them and develop, and seeing our team developed and sees developed as individuals and as a group. [00:08:42] Tommy Thomas: We've talked a lot about work. That's what I generally talk about when I'm talking to leaders, but maybe take me into work life balance. What does that look like? [00:08:52] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. I think we could both, and those that are listening could site examples where leaders in the body of Christ and churches and Parachurch ministries haven't always modeled good balance and good rhythms and when I stepped into my role as the US President, I was speaking with the international president at the time, and we were talking about how important it was for the next generation of leaders to see. I wanted to lead with a spring in my step and a smile on my face The senior roles in the navigators as not death sentences - that the next generation of leaders would see and aspire to having, taking on more responsibility when they saw that those jobs could be lived out in a healthy way. So we coined the term, or I coined the term at that time that I wanted to lead with a spring in my step and a smile on my face. And so that was a tagline for me all through my tenure. Okay, Doug, you need to lead with a spring in your step and a smile on your face. Now how is that gonna happen authentically? And it was the rhythm, the rhythms that I began to put in place then and carried through my tenure. It didn't make the job part-time. It didn't make it less than a major challenging full-time job, which any CEO role is, but it put rhythms in that kept me connected to Christ and helped me to rest well. And so the rhythms I had were one is to as best as I could, and I wasn't a hundred percent on this, but as best as I could to have a Sabbath every. And as best as I could, I would set aside three days a month to get away for study and prayer and prep for messages. And I didn't always get all three days, but I al they were always in my calendar because at times we all know that in senior leader roles, something happens, you just gotta drop everything and move this direction. But I always had those three days in place, so I always got one or two and sometimes three days to do that. So that was once a month. And then once a year, having time of vacation with Pam or family. and making memories that way, keeping the family healthy and connected together through times together. And then every year I would have a final time alone with God at the end of the year looking back over my journals and say, okay, Lord what are the words that you have for me going into this next year? So those are just a few of them that, that I lived out during. Time, which I think helped me to live healthily even in some very challenging times. [00:11:54] Tommy Thomas: Think about the leaders that you know, that you've been around, that you work with. Maybe give me three of them and tell me what you admire about them. [00:12:05] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. Now you want me to say their names? If you're comfortable. I'm fine. Yeah. I didn't know how specific you want to be. I can, I, the names that I would bring are names that are probably not known to most of the people that will hear this podcast, and I think that's important. Because I think that most of the work of the gospel gets done by people who are everyday people in every walk of life. And that's the power of the movement of the gospel and important for us to keep that in mind, that. That's the way it works. God intends us all to be involved, so I think one would be a guy named Craig McLean, who was a year older than me. He was many years a pastor in Kansas City and then led a number of different Parachurch ministries and he took me under his wing as I was a freshman at TCU and had just come to Christ. He took me under his wing and discipled me and gave me a vision for. So that would be one. Another gentleman, guy named Richard Beach. Richard has been with the Lord for quite some time now. He did my wife and my wedding. He did my mom's memorial service. He spoke at my ordination service, but he was. A constant mentor from the day I came to faith until he left to be with the Lord and he had a passion for evangelism. He's the kind of big personality. He'd step into a room. It didn't matter whether you're in a restaurant, wherever you were, he would step into a room. And whoever was close to him, didn't matter who they were, would go, man I would love to get to know this guy. This guy seems like an awful lot of fun. And Richard was always quick to have the name of Jesus on his tongue in a very natural, easy way. And I learned a lot about him in that regard, and I learned a lot about him in terms of keeping it light. The number of times in a executive team meeting we're talking about something, who's the last person in the world that you would think that would keep it late light or make some side comment kind of a joke, some kind of humor. Throw some humor in it. The CEO, right? No. I couldn't help myself over those years. One of the things I loved was to try to keep it light, even when things were getting tense to, to keep it light. Cause as we all know, it's usually not aca. I learned that from Richard. I think those are two guys that that I really appreciate. Another one would be Steve Hayner, former President of InterVarsity became a good friend before he went to be with the Lord. And over my tenure, he was a great mentor and just brought wisdom and he did that with so many people. Yeah, and he just was a great, I. As far as just walking in wisdom and perseverance. Another guy that I would say is Tim McKibben. A. A business guy that loves Christ and has been a great mentor and friend, was on The Navigator Board for a number of years, and he's been an amazing friend, continues to be an amazing friend, and I learned so much from him. Because I came into the role as President of The Navigators, not because I had training in how to be a C E O. I had never been a CEO. I had been a field staff person and he was a great influence and coach and mentor to me on how to lead an organization, and he brought a great help. [00:15:38] Tommy Thomas: You've been out of office now for I guess almost a year now. What have you been doing lately? [00:15:43] Doug Nuenke: It's really fun, Tommy. I look back over this last year the first thing Pam and I did, and it was such a blessing to leave my role and leave well, so to speak. We had a good succession plan Sometime, we can talk about that. But left. The Lord had really used us, used, my wife and I, used me as a leader and we were leaving behind some good things. And so because of that, we were able to we did a Grati-tour. That's what we called it, a Grati-tour. We took five months and we traveled around the country. We didn't get to see everybody, but we stopped in major cities and big places where we had groupings of Navigators, and we let them decide what they wanted it to look like. The first job of a leader is to define reality. And the last job is to say thank you. We took that seriously. In some cases, a small group of people around a dinner table. In other cases, they pulled a big group of people together and had me speak. But the number one job for me, or what God had put on our heart was just to go around and say thank you. I can't remember who it was. You may know some leader -writer person that writes about leadership talk about the first job of a leader is to define reality. And the last job is to say thank you. We took that seriously. For five months we did that. Then we went on sabbatical, and we traveled some and we moved from Colorado Springs up here to Denver area. And a good bit of reflection and seeking God for what's. So that's what we've been, that's what we've been up to. [00:17:12] Tommy Thomas: What questions you been, have you been asking yourself likely? [00:17:15] Doug Nuenke: As I've been in the sabbatical God's, as he is prone to do, when we slow down, right Tommy, when we slow down, we can hear his voice. And he has been. He's been speaking some great lessons in the depth of my heart, challenging me in how I've operated here. I'm 64 years old and I look back and go, oh, stink. I wish I had learned some of these lessons when I was 44 years old, or 34 years old, I didn't, and I'm still learning. And so there's some challenging things that he is brought to me. And I think the major question I'm asking, is if I can have courage and faith to heed God's call on my life to continue to do that, and particularly in some new ways that he's opening up and asking me to live. Yeah. [00:18:13] Tommy Thomas: What do you understand about leadership today that maybe you didn't understand a year ago? [00:18:19] Doug Nuenke: I think it's just been driven more home to me - the importance of leading as a we, it's the way I like to say it. A we as opposed to being isolated. And some of the things I've been reading over the sabbatical just the importance of bringing, trusted God to bring good people around us. And and that would be one thing. And then the other one would be just the incredible privilege that we have as leaders. To leave behind a next generation that can flourish and can honor him and give him glory and can see more and more people come to faith. I think it's just, that's been re-emphasized in my life that the Lord's been saying about that we as leaders have an amazing - Privilege and Opportunity. When we're, when we have a role of leadership, God has placed us there for influence. And the greatest influence we can have is that next generation coming up. [00:19:23] Tommy Thomas: Let's go back to the pandemic for a minute. You led during the latter part of your administration. You dealt with that and a lot of us learned to do things differently and to do different things. Was there anything you learned in the pandemic that may have been a paradigm shift that you can take into the future or that you would tell other leaders that might, we might do different? [00:19:46] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. I think one, a passage that was important to me, I Peter 5 – the first couple verses says to the elders, among you, I appeal as a fellow elder. This is Peter talking to that group of churches, a witness of Christ's suffering, and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed. And here's what he says to him. Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care. And I think the big lesson that I took away from the pandemic. The importance of, and this is coming from a guy that likes to move forward, I like to keep moving forward. And it doesn't matter whether it's a pandemic or what's going on, I want to keep moving forward. I'm a knucklehead that way, and I think what the Lord really taught me was there's times where the people that we serve the flock under our care are stuck and they're struggling, and while, yes, it may be helpful for them to continue to move forward in some little ways that might even actually be healthy and cathartic for 'em, more importantly, is they need to experience leaders who have empathy and are willing to listen and who are willing to acknowledge the human condition that all of us are facing and the weight of. To not ignore. I can remember sitting at in my home on a Zoom call looking outside with the snow falling, and it had been cloudy in Colorado Springs. It doesn't get cloudy that often. It had been cloudy for three days straight, which never happens. And I was feeling a little depressed. It felt like I had this blanket that was just hanging over me. And it just, it was at that moment the Lord said. Yeah. How many people around the country that you lead, do you think are feeling under. Under the weight of this. And so I think that was a big lesson that I, that the Lord really gave me to have empathy, to listen, take, acknowledge the pain that people are, that we all were in. I need to acknowledge that for myself too. . . [00:22:01] Tommy Thomas: What does the future look like? You've had some time to think about it – to reflect. At 64, you are a young man. [00:22:06] Doug Nuenke: I am, I'm excited for the future. I think the god that God has reemphasized to me the importance of, as I've shared, ever since I was a 15-year-old with my two brothers I think reemphasizes a lot of my life's contribution to the kingdom of God is developing leaders. And so whether it's inside The Navigators or outside, I think the Lord's given me a new vision and a new energy to really steward at the experiences that I've had as a senior leader. And to be able to come alongside and be a mentor and a coach to leaders in the body of Christ, in Parachurch Ministries, Churches to come alongside. We all need someone. I think some of my success or flourishing as a leader was because of mentors that God brought around me and I'm seeing that I have the opportunity and I think even a sense of calling to be that for others going forward. Tommy Thomas: I hope you've enjoyed these conversations with Doug non-key. I'm thankful to Doug for taking the time from his sabbatical to be with us. If you're a first-time listener, I hope you will subscribe and become a regular. If there are topics or areas you'd like for me to explore, please let me know. My email is tthomas@jobfitmatters.com You may have noticed that instead of show notes, I've started including a full transcript of the podcast. And you can also find my email address there. If you're listening on an app that lets you leave a review, please do so. The higher number of positive reviews we get. The more often the podcast is recommended to others by the social media algorithms. A lot of our listeners come to us on the recommendation of a friend or a colleague. If you've heard something today that's worth passing on. Please share the show with others. If you like receiving your content in written form, follow me on LinkedIn. We're often a post excerpts from each podcast. Thank you so much for listening up to this point. And for the words of encouragement, I hear from many of you. You're already helping me make something special for the next generation of nonprofit leaders. Join us next week as our guests will be Bill Hendricks and Bev Godby from The Giftedness Center in Dallas. Until then, I stay the course on our journey to make the nonprofit sector more effective and sustainable. Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Navigators Leading Without Power – Finding Hope in Serving Community by Max De Pree Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Tommy's Twitter Profile
Doug Nuenke: I loved sports as a young man. I participated in pretty much every opportunity I had. But when we moved from Chicago down to Texas, I was 4'11”and weighed a hundred pounds. I was a freshman in high school – 4'11” – 100 pounds - and I had the audacity and stupidity of going out for football in Texas [00:00:23] Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Doug Nuke, the retired President & CEO of The Navigators. I first met Doug several years ago when The Navigators retained Job Fit Matters, the company that I work for to conduct a search for their Chief Development Officer. I remember being somewhat nervous about that shirt because at least they told us that this was only going to be the second time that the navigators were going to bring in a non-lifelong Navigator to the president's cabinet. And that was that was a bit daunting. The thing I remember about that search was the way Doug managed it. As a search consultant, you always want to have access to the CEO. You don't always get it. In this case, Doug certainly gave us ample access, but I think as important, he had pointed Bill Tell, who had been a lifelong Navigator to be our liaison and Bill's presence and assistance, coupled with our access to Doug, I thought made for a good search. Doug's a graduate of Texas Christian University, Dan, and enjoyed a great football season this year pulling for the Horned Frogs. Doug, welcome to Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership [00:01:36] Doug Nuenke: Tommy, it's great to be with you this morning, man. What a blessing to get caught up after all these years. [00:01:43] Tommy Thomas: It is. That was a great search. We still talk about that. It was things just went right. God blessed us with a good pool of people. [00:01:50] Tommy Thomas: He blessed you with a. Gosh, a guy, I guess it served 10 or 12 years. And so that was that's always exciting for us. [00:01:57] Doug Nuenke: It was a great experience. And you led that process so well, Tommy, and it was dicey. It was a dicey situation, but the Lord was very gracious to bring us to a very good result. [00:02:10] Tommy Thomas: Before we get too deep into your professional career, I always wanna start back at an earlier time in people's childhood and maybe tell me or tell us what's the happiest memories memory of your childhood. [00:02:20] Doug Nuenke: Yeah, that's an easy one. We moved around a lot when I was a kid, and my dad would take me fishing wherever we lived. And it was all over the country. Wherever we lived, he would take time to take me fishing and we got out into the outdoors. It was the beginning of my great love for the outdoors and my dad invested that time and we had great adventures. All over, whether it's rivers, lakes we would find someplace where there was some kind of body of water and we would catch anything that was in there. We were not snobbish fly fisherman. I'm a fly fisherman today, so maybe I've gotten more snobby, but whatever we would catch catfish. Eels in the Potomac River we would get out and about. So those are, that's my fondest memory. [00:03:10] Tommy Thomas: Moving on, I guess a little bit from that to experiences that you think shaped you as a man. [00:03:14] Doug Nuenke: Some of the experiences I remember that have shaped me, one, without a doubt was being an older brother. I am the oldest of three sons and each of us are three years apart. So I'm the oldest and then cascading down and I would my, I was put in charge of my brothers for often, during my life and my parents. My love for the outdoors and adventures. It wasn't uncommon for my parents to drop the three of us off someplace on the side of the road to go hiking, fishing. on an adventure out in the, outdoors someplace. And even as a 15-year-old, which would've put down to 12 and nine, my youngest brother would've been nine. I was stewarded with being able to take care of him and not just take care of him, but to actually go out and make memories. And I think that formed me as a man and it formed me as a leader. Because to this day, I still do the same thing with whoever God has entrusted me with. One of my fondest joys in leadership is pulling a team together. Pulling people together and making memories. So that's one without a doubt. That started when I was really young and then it probably played itself out in some different ways. I was the tennis captain for a high school tennis team, and I brought that same joy of bringing people together in that situation. Another memory experience that formed me was we moved around a lot and we were just, one year we'd moved from Chicago down to Texas. Now Texas and Chicago are different. Tommy, they're different places. Texas is its own country. And I moved as a Yankee down there to Texas. And was just one year in to live there, a year and a half into living there. And I, the opportunity opened for me to run for a student council post, and I had to get up in front of the whole student body and give a speech. [00:05:36] Doug Nuenke: And here was this guy that did not speak Texan. Up in front of the whole student body, give a speech and woo myself into getting elected, which I did. Amazingly, I look back and go, how my campaign slogan was “Don't be a monkey, Vote for Nuenke”. Pretty catchy. Huh? relaxed. That's right. [00:06:01] Tommy Thomas: Just think you could, what you could have done with a TikTok campaign. . [00:06:04] Doug Nuenke: Oh my. . . [00:06:07] Tommy Thomas: What do you think is about the great outdoors that that makes for a good team building environment? [00:06:12] Doug Nuenke: The Lord made it, so that's gotta be part of it, right? . And I think for a lot of us as leaders, we can get in a rut of meeting with people at an office over desks or even, even at restaurants or at coffee shops. But there's something that opens our eyes up to God's goodness. It's creation, recreation, recreating together. Think of that word recreating. Recreating together with the people that God entrusts to us. I think that must be part of it as I think about it. That's a great question. [00:06:51] Tommy Thomas: You mentioned team sports and playing tennis. what did you bring away from team sports that, that helped form you as a leader? [00:06:59] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. I moving down to Texas from Chicago. I loved sports as a young man. I participated in pretty much every opportunity I had. But when we moved from Chicago down to Texas, I was four 11 and weighed a hundred pounds. I was a freshman in high school, four 11, a hundred pounds, and I had the audacity and stupidity of going out for football in Texas. [00:07:26] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. I hadn't heard about Friday night Lights. But I went out and even in that, I think there's something about being together with others in a team environment and the camaraderie that has formed. Even for me, I didn't play one play for my whole year. I think they were afraid to put me out on the field, what, how I might have gotten hurt. And that's when I shifted to tennis, but it was the camaraderie, it was the memories, it was the building of people together, that was beyond. Just even the score on the page at the end of the match, there were friendships that were built. I don't know if you're probably familiar with this book, Boys in the Boat. [00:08:08] Tommy Thomas: Oh, yes. I love that book. [00:08:10] Doug Nuenke: And that book speaks of the camaraderie. When people are brought together, people from different backgrounds it levels the playing field. You're joining together in a common cause, and it does something you never forget it and it forms us as people, I think, because we form one another. It's how God designed us to be in community. Proverbs 27:17 “as iron sharpens the iron, so one man sharpens another”. And I can think of very few places that happens as profoundly as in team sports. . . [00:08:48] Tommy Thomas: When you got to TCU, how did you decide on your major [00:08:54] Doug Nuenke: That's a great question. I went to TCU thinking I was gonna be a doctor, and two things happened. One, as I found a fraternity my freshman year and my grades slipped. And then the next thing that happened was I found the Lord and I had a great group of believers that were around me that poured into my life helped me see a different kind of life that I could live. And nothing against pre-med. I, still at times go, oh man, I wish I had become a doctor, but I think more so the Lord was leading me in a different way. And I ended up choosing social work because I just saw social. As an opportunity to grow in people skills and in being able to serve others. I didn't know much at that time, but I was beginning to get a hint that the Jesus life was about serving others, so I ended up choosing social work. Tommy Thomas: What are what are people always surprised to find out about you? [00:10:02] Doug Nuenke: One of 'em, which I've alluded to already is that I moved nine times before I was 18 do the math. That's, just every other year pretty much. . So that was, that's something people are surprised because I don't think that's an experience that most people have. Another one that is fun, it wasn't fun at the time was being on an erupting volcano. We were on a mission trip in Indonesia with a group of friends, and we were on a volcano that hadn't erupted in 16 years, and it chose to erupt on the day that we were climbing on the top. We were on the very top. Wow. We could take a whole podcast and I could tell you that story, but we don't have time today for that. But that's one that surprises people. And it certainly surprised me that day [00:11:00] Tommy Thomas: Anytime I've talked to somebody that's spent their adult life with an organization like The Navigators, Cru, InterVarsity or Young Life, I like to ask the question “when you joined the organization, did you think it would be a career”? [00:11:06] Doug Nuenke: Now? It's a good question. I'm really not sure. My wife Pam and I have been on staff of the navigators for over 30 years now. But before that we had another life. we had eight years on a church staff in Denver. And I was with another Parachurch ministry for about five years, which we loved that time. Still are friends with the people that we serve with there. Still connect with them and serve in different ways. So I'm not sure that I saw it as a career, but I know that regardless of the job that I have, how I earn my income in the years ahead in this Pam and I will always be navigators in that spirit of who the navigators are. We love the mission of the navigators. We love the mission, the commitment to be advancing the gospel, the commitment to be raising up disciples and disciple makers. And because we believe it so strongly, we believe it's God's call and every believer to live that way, right? And so no matter what we do, In the future, whatever we do from a job standpoint, we'll always, so to speak, be navigators, I think it's Christ call on all of us, but we love that the navigators focus on that. [00:12:27] Tommy Thomas: What do you remember about the first time you actually led a staff team? [00:12:38] Doug Nuenke: This is a really a profound memory for me. I was a senior in college at TCU and we were involved with a campus ministry that was student led, completely student led. It was called the Wednesday Night Bible Study. Can you guess which night it met on Tommy? I see where this is. I see where this is going. Yeah. Pretty creative name, huh? The Wednesday Night Bible Study, but it was happening ministry there and it, we had hundreds of students involved, but as it came about my senior year, I was asked to lead that campus ministry as a student. And I can remember, like it was yesterday, sitting in my dorm, in my room, the house actually, I was living with a group of guys in the house off campus, sitting in my room realizing that I was gonna be leading the leadership team that night. The team, and these were people who had influenced me to come to faith three years. God had used them to win me to himself. I could go around the room, I can envision the picture the faces of them right now. I can and think of the personalities they have, the gifts they had and how they had influenced me. And here I was my senior year being asked to lead them. That was humbling in itself. But I can remember sitting in my. Beginning to try to put some thoughts together. How in the world am I gonna do this? I have no idea. I've never done this before. And the lord one, one thing the Lord does was I'm gonna turn here real quickly. First Timothy chapter four. God spoke to me outta the scriptures as I was calling out to him that, that afternoon he, he spoke, he encouraged me and these are the words that he gave me. The beginning of some words he gave me. He says, don't let anyone look down on you because you're young, but set an example for the believers in Speech and Life, in Love in and in purity until I come. Devote yourself to the public reading of scripture, to preaching and to teaching. Do not neglect your gift, which has given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you. Be diligent in these matters. Give yourself holy to them so that everyone may see your progress.Watch your. and you're doctrine closely. And I read those words and the Lord encouraged me. And then all of a sudden, the Lord just started giving me things outta the scripture reminded me of scripture that I had read over the years and things that I could pass on. He gave me my first team meeting notes, There I was, I can see where I was sitting. I was in my room. I was on my knees. and really crying out because I was scared. It's what in the world have I gotten myself into? And I think that not only helped me that day, and it really was profound because it gave me that group, it gave me their hearts for that year of ministry that we were moving into together. But it also started a pattern. For the way that I would live and the way that I would lead for the rest of my life to this, up to this time was dependence on God for the words to say and being devoted to the scriptures and knowing the scriptures and having, to the best that I'm able to be a conduit to others of God's message and the truth and the encourage from the scriptures. [00:16:39] Tommy Thomas: So fast forward a little bit. What kind of leader training program does The Navigators have today? Doug Nuenke: I'll just briefly just say we and actually I would say during my tenure for the 13 years that I was the US President for the navigators, along with some other truly devoted leaders that served right there with me in it, we saw God really develop not only leadership programs, but a culture of leadership. [00:17:15] Doug Nuenke: And we prayed about that early on. This is 13 or so years ago. We prayed, Lord, won't you give us a culture in The Navigators of leader development so that all leaders, all staff see the importance of being developed themselves and take it seriously to be developing those that follow them. And so at another time, we could talk about some of the ways that we've set up some programs, but it's had a profound influence. In fact, I would probably say, and I think others would say that during my tenure, the one most important thing that I was able to lead behind was a strong development bias. A bias for developing people and a culture of leader development, but also, Hundreds of staff who have been developed and who are on a path towards increased development over their careers with the navigators. It's exciting. Tommy Thomas: When you think back on those 13 years, what skills or competencies did you use most often? [00:18:19] Doug Nuenke: One of them has gotta be, My, my Greatest Heart, which is already coming out all the way from starting out with my two brothers, going on Adventures to Tennis team to different aspects of leader development. Psalm 7:17-18 is a short passage that almost brings me to tears because it's so important to me in my heart of hearts. Psalm 71, verse 17 says, since my youth, oh God, you have taught me. And to this day, I declare your marvelous deeds. Verse 18, even when I'm old and gray, do not forsake me, oh God, till I declare your power to the next generation. Your might to all who are to come. So without a doubt, one of the skills or competencies I brought was this whole area of developing the next generation of leaders, developing the bench. [00:19:25] Doug Nuenke: Every organization is one generation from extinction and organizations that do not major in leader development will have to depend on outside resources to be able to fuel what God has started in the first place. And that's not a bad thing. God does that. God brings people from the north, south and the east and the west to accomplish his purposes. So, it's not a negative thing. But as far as it depends on us. I think our job is develop those behind us to so and so to speak, work our way out of a job. So that's one of, without a doubt. If I only did one thing, no matter what job I've had my whole life, I've done that. And then the second one is coalition building. Bringing people together. Philippians 1:27 talks about. Paul's joy in seeing the Philippians striving as one for the sake of their calling. It's striving as one, bringing unity and we all know that Satan's number one job is to divide us, is to try to get us, polarized and not able to work together. [00:20:41] Doug Nuenke: And organizations like the Navigators and other parachurch and churches are not immune to having disparate, different opinions and not just different opinions, but even division sometimes between groups. And I would say that what I just love trusting God to build coalitions because the navigators have been blessed by God to become more diverse over the years. And by diverse, different gifts, politically diverse. As far as ethnicity diverse. And with that comes different opinions and which is really the beauty of all that God's created, right? It's beautiful to have pe different kinds of people together, but I think coalition building was one of the ones that, that I had to use and that I enjoyed using, was bringing people with different opinions, different methodologies, different ways of viewing different topics together, and finding a way forward. [00:21:42] Tommy Thomas: Staying with that, The coalition building and collaboration. I understand that the presidents of many of the parachurch ministries of the United States get together periodically, and I've heard people at Cru and InterVarsity talk about that. Can you tell us about that? What that was like for you? You've got many women to sit around the table and collaborate and be in the, be all in the kingdom. Work together. [00:22:03] Doug Nuenke: Yeah. We met the couples. It was the presidents of Cru, Young Life, Youth for Christ, The Navigators, InterVarsity and FCA. We would meet together with our spouses two times a year for two and a half days had meals together and do life together. It was powerful that we became deep friends because we went through challenges together. In some cases we were challenges that were in the body of Christ, in our culture that we were all dealing with. And in other cases, it was personal things that we were going through. And the Lord really knit our hearts together. and it was powerful too for the learning that took place. What an amazing group of people to learn from. I came away with journals full of notes and humble, often humbled . I go my, oh my, they have their act together. So much more than we have. I could take this back and really learn and help my team learn from some of these aspects and vice versa. There were things that The Navigators were doing that other benefited from. We miss those times not being in that seat anymore. Tommy Thomas: In the past couple years two of your colleagues have gone on to be with the Lord Denny Rydberg of Young Life, and most recently Steve Douglas of Cru, What do you remember about these two men and their leadership contribution to the nonprofit sector and to the kingdom of God? [00:23:38] Doug Nuenke: What two Godly, passionate, fun men that are now with Jesus. I think for both Steve and Denny, their passion to see more and more people come to Christ would have to be one of them without a doubt. And it didn't matter who, but particularly because of the focus of those two missions. It was students, college students, and high school, junior high kids. And they just had such a passion for that. And it exuded out of them. And the, it gave energy to the missions that they led. I think when I think. Steve Douglas, I think in his heart for partnerships, he was always working to try to bring groups together to do more together than they could separately. And he, without a doubt left a, a lot of those partnerships are continuing on to this day that he helped put in place because of that passion. [00:24:41] Doug Nuenke: And so more kingdom stuff is getting done these days because of that. Passion that Steve had in bringing people together and those partnerships going on and with Denny without a doubt, his creativity and growing young life, I the mission of Young Life grew so much over the years under his leadership and continues to grow under Newt Crenshaw's leadership. [00:25:05] Doug Nuenke: But Denny's creativity that he brought to take young life from where it was when he started and really invest the time was fun to watch and be someone to be able to see that and then to be able to learn from him over the years while he was in that role and before he went to be with the Lord. I hope you're enjoying this conversation as much as I am for me, the time has flown by. I probably should have expected as much when I read Doug's email to me confirming the details. He said, I'm looking forward to hanging with you brother. We're going to have a lot of fun. Join us next week as we continue this conversation. Doug will take us deeper into his leadership journey with The Navigators. Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Navigators Boys in the Boat - Nine Americans and Their Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Tommy's Twitter Profile
While many parachurch ministries do well for the name of Christ, many of them do not. Sadly, many of these which are founded by women are simply steam valves for rebellious women to usurp, feed their flesh, and introduce false doctrine. I review one of them called The Transforming Center. Final part of a 3-part series on parachurch organizations. Here is GotQuestions with more information on Spiritual formation a la Richard Foster's Renovare. And more info on spiritual formation itself: What is the spiritual formation movement? Remember, Founder Barton earned her degree from a Jesuit Catholic University. Are Roman Catholics Christian? Is ecumenism good or bad? Answer: Together Against Ecumenism Gender Roles: What about Parachurch Ministries? Nine Marks of a Healthy Parachurch Ministry This episode is also available as a blog post: http://the-end-time.org/2023/01/28/the-issue-with-parachurch-organizations-especially-ones-founded-by-women-part-3/
The issue with Parachurch organizations – especially ones Founded by women part 2: Yada Factor It's easy to think that a parachurch ministry is doing a good thing when they tell you they will help you become closer to God through their teachings and methods, but many of them are focused on the woman rather than God. Watch out for parachurch ministries founded and led by women that are emotionally driven and focusing on our hurts, and end up just using God as a vehicle for navel gazing. This episode is also available as a blog post: http://the-end-time.org/2023/01/27/the-issue-with-parachurch-organizations-especially-ones-founded-by-women-part-2-yada-factor/
What ARE parachurch organizations? What do they do? Why are the ones founded by women so rife with false doctrine? Tune in for these answers and more! This episode is also available as a blog post: http://the-end-time.org/2023/01/26/the-issue-with-parachurch-organizations-especially-ones-founded-by-women/
Today, my friend Mark Fields and I have a very important and vulnerable conversation about pain, something we all experience in life. We talk about the understanding, resilience, freedom, and peace on the other side of pain if we choose to do the hard and intentional work of becoming aware of it, accepting it, and healing from it. We discuss the choice we have to heal from our childhood and adulthood pain, and to transform it into self-acceptance and love instead of transmitting it and hurting those we love.We also dive into how to break the cycle of toxic masculinity in our family and how Mark intentionally chooses to be a parent through the lens of unconditional love. Mark's life mission is to remind the world that we are really family and God is much bigger than we've been told in most American Churches. He has been a part of Christian Community Development Association organizations, Latino church-plants, Black megachurches, White megachurches, Parachurch ministries as well as foreign and domestic missions organizations. He realized that there are many harmful understandings of God being communicated in the world. Many of the places people are going to encounter the peace and acceptance of God have become hallmarks of rejection, discrimination, and exile. Mark started The Kinship Collective to be a part of reminding the world that God is good, we are good and anything that doesn't feel or point to that image-of-God-goodness is simply missing the point. He believes when we are oriented by these truths, we can experience the world as family in ways we've always wanted and needed.Mark also enjoys speaking, success coaching, and DEI consulting. He has journeyed with his partner Caryn for 15 years, and they have 3 incredible daughters. Resources:Oprah's podcast Super Soul: Glennon Doyle: First the Pain, Then the RisingYung Pueblo's book Clarity & ConnectionConnect with Mark on Instagram on @mark_fields and at thekinshipcollective.org.Connect with me @lucca_petrucci on Instagram or TikTok.This episode was produced by Lucca Petrucci and mixed and mastered by Joel Yoshonis.
Parachurch ministries, blogs, and podcasts are great, but when do they cross the line and usurp the church? Support us on Anchor! Subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, and Overcast. Buy your guitar effects at westminstereffects.com. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/westminsterdoxology/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/westminsterdoxology/support
Everybody's got a story. Listen now as Jeff Bucknam talks with John Nichols who serves as the Campus Pastor of the Crystal Lake Campus at Harvest. “Conversations with Jeff Bucknam” is a production of Harvest Bible Chapel. Executive Producer: Wesley Cassford Host: Jeff Bucknam Co-host: Tommy Creutz Guest: John Nichols Video: Louis Go Sound design, mixing, and editing: Wesley Cassford Graphic Design: Wesley Cassford Social Media: Lindsay Olford Producer: Sherri Smith
Looking for a Reformed Church in Orange County? Check out Santa Ana Reformed (a United Reformed Church plant) meeting Sundays at 2 PM at Davis Elementary School! Please help support the show on our Patreon Page! Check out the ESBT Series & NSBT Series from IVP Academic! Get a copy of the Family Worship Bible Study, The Works of William Perkins, & the RHB Store! SEASON 4 EPISODE 23 Join Nick & Peter of the Guilt Grace Gratitude Podcast as they continue Season 4, The Reformed Church, with Episode 23, "Parachurch Ministries." Irwyn Ince (DMin., Covenant Theological Seminary) is Coordinator of the PCA MNA and Adjunct Professor of Pastoral Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary. Resources for this season: Recovering the Reformed Confession: R. Scott Clark Covenant, Justification, & Pastoral Ministry: Edited by R. Scott Clark How Jesus Runs the Church: Guy Prentiss Waters Welcome to a Reformed Church: Daniel R. Hyde The Creedal Imperative: Carl Trueman A Better Way: Michael Horton Theology for Ministry: Edited by Chad Van Dixhoorn, John C.A. Ferguson, & William R. Edwards Reformation Theology: Edited by Matthew Barrett Have Feedback or Questions? Email us at: guiltgracepod@gmail.com Find us on Instagram: @guiltgracepod Follow us on Twitter: @guiltgracepod Find us on YouTube: Guilt Grace Gratitude Podcast Please rate and subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you use! Looking for a Reformed Church? North American Presbyterian & Reformed Churches --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/gggpodcast/support
Sending missionaries is the local church's job—so why start a new parachurch missions sending organization? Nathan Sloan, pastor and executive director of the Upstream Sending explains in this exclusive interview recorded at the final Together for the Gospel conference. Nathan has a Doctor of Missiology from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Previously, Nathan and his wife Sarah served as missionaries in Kathmandu, Nepal, training national pastors and working with an unreached people group. You can watch the video version of this episode on the Missions Podcast Facebook page. Hear our previous interview with Nathan here. Subscribe now to never miss an episode when it drops. Support this podcast and impact God's mission. Want to ask a question or suggest a topic? Email us.
In this very special episode, Carla reveals her real identity. Ken and Carla share how they met, the projects that brought them together, and how they began this 18-month weekly conversation they call "Beach Talks." Rather than spell out the details here, you'll need to listen to the podcast. Sharing the early days, pre-podcast, they talk about their new friendship working together on a published book. Carla relays some of the detail of her college and then the beginnings of the career that shaped her political and spiritual perspectives. If you are drawn, as Ken is, to Carla's intelligence, quick wit, political commentary, and infectious, soulful faith, you'll appreciate these fresh, new disclosures. It's a delightful and personal account. This week, Secretary Pete Buttigieg appears at the University of Chicago. Macron wins!Follow Carla on TwitterBecome a Patron: www.patreon.com/beachedwhitemaleEpisodes since the launch: 190Support the show (http://thebeachedwhitemale.com)
It's time for another Glad You Asked episode! This is the second of a two-part episode and we’re digging into Scripture to answer questions from our listeners.
We're revisiting our previous discussion parachurch ministries in an effort to clarify.
Episode 927 | Adriel Sanchez and Bill Maier answer caller questions. Show Notes CoreChristianity.com Questions in this Episode 1. Is all sin equal in God's eyes? For example, is a white lie the same as a murder? 2. I am trying to decide which church I should start tithing to. We don't really have an established Christian church here. Things have not gone back to in person here yet it is still virtual. Then I thought of Core Christianity. I love the show. But I am not sure if it is a church. Do you consider Core Christianity to be a church? Would it be acceptable to tithe to the Inner Core? 3. How should we understand 1 Corinthians 15:54 mean? 4. Why are Christians so worked up about the war in Ukraine rather than abortion? Today's Offer Inner Core Request our latest special offers here or call 1-833-THE-CORE (833-843-2673) to request them by phone. Want to partner with us in our work here at Core Christianity? Consider becoming a member of the Inner Core. Resources Core Question – How Do I Choose a Church?
Joe and Jimmy answer a listener's email regarding the value of parachurch organizations and their connection to the local church.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/doctrine-and-devotion/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
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