Podcasts about kat bonner

I sat down with Kat Bonner who has made a business of "helping women find relief from grief." We talked about how her decision to get sober and "stop wallowing in pity" ultimately led her to a career in grief work.* *Kat Bonner is not certified by any governing body to be a grief coach/therapist.* --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/howtogrieve/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/howtogrieve/support

Kat's Facebook Group Kat on Instagram @katgriefcoach How is a woman's life after losing her mom? Is it always going to be a struggle? Will it ever be joyful again? Kat Bonner, Grief Coach shares her experiences and the stories of other Motherless Daughters to describe a "Life After Losing Mom." Need someone to talk to about your grief journey? Schedule a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com

Kat's Facebook Group Kat on Instagram @katgriefcoach How is a woman's life after losing her mom? Is it always going to be a struggle? Will it ever be joyful again? Kat Bonner, Grief Coach shares her experiences and the stories of other Motherless Daughters to describe a "Life After Losing Mom." Need someone to talk to about your grief journey? Schedule a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Sharnelle Gervais. She lost her mom in a tragic accident when she was only 15 years old. What To Listen For How Sharnelle wishes she could’ve said goodbye to her mom for closure because it still doesn’t seem real. How Sharnelle had to immediately step into a caretaker role for her siblings when her mom passed. Kat’s observations on how age affects the way you process grief. Sharnelle’s struggle watching her father move on and begin a new relationship. Kat’s tips for “feeling what you’re feeling” in order to process grief. How PTSD can affect memory. What to do when you realize all the ways your mom won’t be apart of your life in the future. The role of anger in the grief process and how to deal with it. How Sharnelle began to experience other teenagers taking their parents for granted. Sharnelle’s experience of living in a small town and it’s effect on her social life. How losing your mom makes it hard to let any other mother figures into your life. Sharnelle’s realization that she was going to have to figure out how to take care of herself because no one else would. That comparing yourself to others can steal joy from your life. Setting up constructive boundaries in relationships. How to confide in a significant other. Sharnelle is not alone in losing her mom at such an early age, but her raw honesty about losing her mom helps give other women going through the same thing comfort and hope. Without sugar-coating her feelings, Sharnelle opens up about the hard reality of processing grief while supporting others and learning to let new people into her life. Resources From This Episode: Sharnelle on Facebook Sharnelle on Instagram Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript Voiceover: 00:00 In 2013 Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found Katbonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call Katbonner.com Kat: 00:48 so before we get started with the episode, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure you've heard multiple times that grief is an individual process. Well, the people you heard this from aren't wrong because it very much so is you're probably wondering how can someone help me when they grieve differently than I do? That's why I'm so passionate about one on one coaching that is totally customized to you and your pain points. I let you guide me two ways. I can help you. I can only take on three clients at a time. So the spots are limited. I'd love for you to tell me how I can help you in your grief journey. Speaker 2: 01:34 [inaudible] Sharnelle: 01:36 I was 15 when my mom passed away. She was in aquatic accident. So we lived in our little small village, about a half an hour away from, uh, a larger city. And uh, our or her parents lived on an acreage just outside of that village. And we'd always just ride our quads up to the acreage and then ride them home while we were all at school one day. And my mom was going about her regular day and she, um, was riding her quad home from my grandparents house and she lost control of the quad and ran into a power pole. And then by the time emergency services arrived, she was in stable condition, but, um, she ended up going into cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital. Um, so she didn't end up making it. They couldn't revive her. So I remember it like it was yesterday. I was in school in the town half an hour away and I got a text from my uncle saying that he was going to pick me up and I thought it was really weird, um, because I always just would ride the bus home. Sharnelle: 02:45 So I was like, okay. So he picked me up and my brother was there and I think my sister was there too. I can't really remember. But, uh, he said that my mom was in an accident and that we had to go to the hospital. So I was like, oh no, like this isn't good. Is She okay? And he didn't really answer. So my dad was actually about three hours or so late working at the time, so he ended up having a police escort to the town to meet us at the hospital. So we were waiting at the hospital was my grandma and my uncle. And, um, my dad arrived and then they told us that she didn't make it, that she had gotten to quoting accident and that she had died. Um, so at this point I was 15, my brother was 10, I think, and my sister was 19, I believe, 19 or 20. Sharnelle: 03:44 And um, we were asked if we wanted to see her and say goodbye. And at the time I was 15 so I was like, no, I don't want to see my dead mom. So I opted out, which now looking back on it being almost 11 years this year, I really should have said yes because I feel like that would have provided a little bit more closure cause it's still just kinda doesn't seem like it's real. Like it's like she is just going to, you know, walk in and be like, Hey, sorry, I missed the past 10 years, but it really doesn't. And it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever gone through. Um, especially for being 15. I remember waking up the next morning because my mom wasn't there and I made everybody breakfast. And from then on I just kinda had to take care of them, my brothers specially. And I, cause my sister was so old, she wasn't even at home. So it was my dad and it was me and my little brother. And it was, I, I don't, I don't even know how to explain it. It was so unexpected and I, I don't, I honestly never really grieved I guess. Cause now like 10 coming on 11 years later, I still know that I just suppressed it. I didn't do anything about it. Kat: 05:17 Yeah, it's, I noticed that a lot. Sorry, this is just my first thought. So this is just coming to my head and then I'll get back to your story a little bit, but I feel like just people who lose their mom when they're younger, I mean, I guess to some people, 15 might be old. Um, but I consider that younger, so, and they're really like pivotal years that they like really repressed their grief and bottle it up. And then they really started to grieve years and years later. And that might not even be intentional, which is crazy because you're like, oh my God, how did I actually put this off for so long? And then there's another thing, degree of on top of actually grieving the loss and you're like, yeah, go like this makes no sense. So how, for starters, I want to say I'm so sorry for your loss. Kat: 06:14 I know that everybody literally probably always tells you that, but sometimes I just feel like I'm compelled to say it. Yeah. And sorry. Thanks. Interesting to me though that you kind of took over the motherly role when, I mean, I can understand like for your brother, but your dad was there. So can you tell me a little bit more about the dynamic? Like were y'all not close, you know, was he really like struggling in his grief? Like what made you feel like, or did you, you know, feel like you had to be more of a caretaker even though he was there? Sharnelle: 06:50 Um, yeah. So my, it was only for a little while because, and I, I have to be careful what I say just because I don't want to hurt my father's feelings cause I know he's going to want to listen to this. But he, yeah. Um, I, he definitely, it was really hard. He lost his wife and the mother of his children, so he was definitely going through a really hard time. He ended up losing his job because of it. And He, um, I just felt like I should help with some of this stuff because he never really was alone. He was with my mother's since he was like 19. And, um, it's just, it was, I don't know, I guess I'll just felt like I should help my brother and my dad deal with that. Um, it wasn't for very long. It was only about a month or two. Sharnelle: 07:45 And then his, my dad rekindled a relationship with his ex who he had a kid with just before he got together with my mom and she ended up moving in with her son because of their personal issues with her ex husband. Um, and that really kind of affected me. I just kind of from there just shut down I guess and kind of close everybody out and just kind of started moving on with my own life. Um, because it was so sudden like, and I know that he needed to move on and whatever, and I don't blame him, but I know that it was really hard for us as kids to have our mom passed away and then just a few months later have some other woman move in and try to take care of us, I guess. Kat: 08:52 Oh, bless your heart. Yeah. I, there's always so many feelings that, you know, come along with grief and I think that one of the hardest things to process, it's like how can you feel so many things at one time? And it really just goes to show that like you just have to like literally allow yourself to feel how you're feeling because that's the only way that you're going to get through those feelings and the only way that you're going to be able to process them. But I am curious, do you, maybe, and I hear this a lot from women just because I think it's because they're a woman, but do you think that you maybe took on the motherly role because like you're a female? Speaker 5: 09:46 Um, Sharnelle: 09:46 I guess it's mostly just because I am such an empath myself. Speaker 5: 09:52 I, um, Sharnelle: 09:55 just knew how they felt and I wanted to try to make them feel better, I guess. And I guess that could be because I'm a woman. I'm, Kat: 10:04 you probably never really thought about it. No, that's so funny. Yeah. Well sometimes it just depends on people's personality, which is definitely a great asset to have. Bless your heart. I hope it didn't make things harder on yourself. Um, so I guess growing up, like were you and your mom, I mean, obviously you have a different relationship with your mom than you have with your dad, but were you more of like a mama's girl or a daddy's girl? Sharnelle: 10:36 No, I was definitely more of a daddy's girl. Um, and I still kind of am to this day. Um, my mom had really, really, really bad depression, so she oftentimes didn't get out of bed. And, um, we had to make our own lunches for school because my dad was away working and, um, we didn't like super have a close relationship, I guess. It's honestly like I have a really hard time remembering anything from my childhood and I think it's just like PTSD from the accident and kind of how I just dealt with everything. I just pushed it all the way. And for some reason I just can't remember a lot of it. Speaker 5: 11:27 Um, I know that I Sharnelle: 11:31 thinks that I pretty much was just a daddy's girl and my brother was like a mama's boy and my sister is kinda like a mama's girl too. Um, Speaker 5: 11:42 but I [inaudible] Sharnelle: 11:45 honestly, like, I just don't remember much about my childhood. Kat: 11:49 Yeah. It's though that's the kind of thing I feel like ask your parents and then you don't have your parents and you're like, oh, well, there goes that. Um, yeah. And it's so interesting because you know, even if you're a daddy's girl or a mama's girl or whatever, I mean just like there's something special about a father daughter relationship. Like there's just some things that you can't go to your dad too. And I think that's why like it's so different and it's so hard being a woman, losing your mom because it's like you literally lost the person who raised you, but she is like your same like sex, like she like literally has like your same composition and you don't like, you know, maybe you have to feel like you explain yourself, you know, where that sort of thing that women might feel like with a woman. Man, I don't know at this point I'm probably like rambling, but when I guess after, Sharnelle: 12:49 yes, Kat: 12:49 your mom's passing, did you realize that like, hey, this is Herman. It like, you know, I don't have my mom here to share like my life with anymore. Like was it immediate? Speaker 6: 13:03 Um, Sharnelle: 13:04 yeah, I guess it really was. And I just cried and cried and cried forever because like the things that I do remember, um, with my mom, it just, it was just like these flashes where it's like, well now your mom's not gonna be at your graduation and your mom's not gonna be at your wedding and your mom's not gonna be there when you have your own kids to even ask questions to like, in order to be like, mom, my baby has a fever, what do I do? Things like that. Like I never, as soon as she passed away, it's like all those things came into my head. Like, you know, you, you will, you don't have anybody to ask. Kat: 13:50 Yeah, exactly. You don't realize that until they're not there. And you're like, well shit, they're good is that, and yeah, exactly. I mean, no matter what, you cannot prepare yourself for this loss. But I think when the loss is unexpected, it's literally a ginormous slap in the face. And you're like white. I, and I, you know, I can't attest to like having any side to loss because my mom's passing was also unexpected, but just based on like my knowledge, it's like, okay, like this was so unexpected and like, especially being so young, I mean you can't really, I like prepare like, oh, like if I knew my mom was sick, me personally, like I would've thought about who am I going to go to when I'm going to need my mom? For things just almost preparing in advance for that. Like, no, you can't prepare your emotions, but do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Sharnelle: 14:46 To mentally prepare yourself and to be able to also just let your parent know that you know you love them before it happens. Like when my mom passed away, we weren't really affectionate. Like, yeah, we'd hug and stuff like that. But we never really told each other that we loved them. So I don't even remember what the last thing I said to my mom was. Whereas if I were to, if my dad were to pass away, I'd know. Or like even my siblings, I'd know that the last thing I said to them was, I love you because every time we talk now, we always end our conversation saying that we love each other. Kat: 15:23 Exactly. And I mean, you've just kind of realized that because you've been through this loss, which is unfortunate, but I mean there's just, you know, kind of how it works. And it's so interesting. Like sometimes I've talked to some people and they're like, oh, I didn't reach out to any other woman for anything. You know, when my mom died, like they didn't reach out to their mom's friend or their aunt or anything like that. So did you find yourself, you know, doing that or longing for another mother figure? I'm sure Sharnelle: 15:57 the only really person I kind of reached out to was my dad's mom. My grandma, she was like, so growing up, essentially each kid had their own set of grandparents that they would hang out with, I guess in the summer. So my sister went to my mom's parents and I went to my dad's mom's and my brother went to my dad's debt. So since my mom had passed away, I always would call my grandma. She was a a nurse anyways, a registered nurse. And so I would usually just call her if I had any like medical questions even just to like hang out. And I ended up living with her for a little while too when I moved out of my, uh, dad's house. And, um, she was kind of like, I guess the mother figure purse say in my life because I was so mad at my dad. I didn't even want to have a relationship with his girlfriend and I had like a civil relationship, but it's just like I took it so personally that she was around. And even to this day, like I just [inaudible] I dunno, I guess it's because I felt like it was forced on me and I didn't want it at all. I didn't want it to be forced on me, so I just didn't really give it a chance. Kat: 17:24 Yeah. It's really interesting when you realize that like, wow, I don't really get angry. And then like your mom dies and you're like, Holy Shit, I've, I'm like hairier than I've ever been in my entire life. And it's a really, really strange phenomenon. Especially, I mean, people cry, but I feel like anger, especially as one of those emotions that in women especially, it's so frowned upon and you're like, oh, like this is, it's just, I mean, it's fascinating, but it's very different process. Um, I am curious, do you think that your like relationship and your interactions with your grandma on your dad's side made the void worse from your mom or from not having your mom? Sharnelle: 18:20 Um, I don't, I don't know. I guess there were, there was quite a few years there where I just didn't really reach out to anybody, I guess. Um, but when I, cause I went through like extreme depression myself. I tried to kill myself. I ended up in the hospital for awhile to get like my antidepressants regulated and all this stuff. So I think like during that time between like 16 and 18, I was just, I just kind of shut everybody out. And I was like just a typical teenager that just missed my mom. And I just kinda thought that not having anybody was better than trying to fill the void. Kat: 19:12 Yeah, that's interesting that you say that because I'm sure that thought has gone through many of folks heads. I don't know if I said that right, but many people's heads, there we go. Um, at some point. And it's definitely a lot to think about because it's like, you know, when you reflect on your decisions as this choice making my grief worse or, you know, is it making my grief better? But do you think that like it was almost part of you coping, like with not having your mom to share your life with, like, was that a way that you cope with it by, you know, spending time with your grandma? Sharnelle: 19:56 Uh, yeah, it was, it was really nice too. Cause we would like talk about my mom and she would share stories of things that I might've forgotten and um, and it was like, I always had like a really nice relationship with her. Um, so it was good to have like some sort of stability I guess when that all went down. Um, cause she was able to be like a constant that wasn't changing I guess. Kat: 20:37 Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. It's like, okay, well at least you don't expect it to change. Like you're not sick, you know, like as far as I know. Yeah. Obviously unexpected can happen, but you had the thought in your head like, you know, okay, this is this and this is not going to change hopefully for x amount of time. And I at least, and let me know if you do too, you know, found it comforting to really have people who knew my mom to help me. And I mean family is nice, but that's not like direct family, you know, it's an in-laws. So there might be certain things that she didn't like that she knew about your mom. The other people did. So like, did she like tell you, I mean, well you said that she told you stories, but were they like stories that you expected or, yeah, I just tell me a little, Sharnelle: 21:36 know more about that. Um, I think like she didn't necessarily have a lot of friends per se because we did live in such a small village and she didn't drive. So a lot of the times she kind of relied on other people to like her mother in law and my grandma to kind of do things with her in a sense. Um, so the stories that she would tell would just be like mostly about like family gatherings or things like that. Usually things that I was around, but I didn't necessarily like realize cause it was in the background or something like that. So it wasn't anything that I really wasn't aware of. Um, but she, yeah, I don't know. It was mostly just things, I guess that I was around for. Nothing too surprising. Kat: 22:41 No. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, what would you say, like once you really started to cope with, you know, not having your mom as a part of your life, did you notice any like, you know, obvious changes when it comes to, you know, your actions or your traditions or just kind of things like that? Sharnelle: 23:04 Um, I think I kind of started to happen right away. Just being more aware of other people's personal circumstances. For example, like before that, you know, we'd be typical teenagers, we'd be like, oh my mom is so annoying, she's making me come home or I'm grounded because I did this. And it's like after that happened I'm like, you know, I honestly give to have my mom ground me because I talked back. You know, you kinda realize that other people take their parents for granted when they don't realize it until it's gone. Like I didn't realize it until it was gone. And you just kind of, for me, I just take into consideration people's like things that they're going through. It makes me definitely more aware that not everything that you see is what it seems to be. That there could be another story behind it. Kat: 23:59 Yeah, that's a really good point that you bring up. And I think especially when it comes to things like death and grief and things that aren't really the norm in society to talk about, people have a tendency to like, especially on social media, to only talk about like the good things. I'm like, yeah, the good things are great, but like, let's be honest and let's be real about what is actually going on here. Um, so did you notice like, I dunno, like you becoming maybe more introverted or extroverted. I mean obviously, okay, let me rephrase that. I don't think that made sense. So you like, you know, would cope with not having your mom by, you know, spending more time with your grandma. But when I guess when it comes time to like traditions or just everyday life, like, did you notice kind of that dynamic of the relationship just being more, you know, like friendly or did you see any relationships in your life become more mother bought or like, Sharnelle: 25:10 um, I guess it was just more mother daughter. Like with my grandma, I myself, I guess. Yeah, became more extroverted. I became loud and boisterous. I dress crazy because I wanted attention. I guess. I, Speaker 5: 25:28 um, Sharnelle: 25:29 acted just like, like I was super happy and that I was loving life and whatever. Speaker 5: 25:38 But I, Sharnelle: 25:42 I definitely turned to my grandma a lot more as like a mother figure. Kat: 25:47 That's so funny. Yeah, no, it definitely makes sense. It's, and I feel like just with family, that's where obviously it's, you're close to your family. I'm not going to say all family, but if you have like a decently close relationship to a female in your family, those relationships are probably more likely to become, you know, more mother daughter relationships. Um, so how did you like as you started to really coping grieve with, you know, that realization of like not having your mom to spend life with. Did you notice the dynamics of any other relationships in your life? Change? It's, Sharnelle: 26:35 I guess it's just kind of like a broad question. I noticed that my dad was an like, I don't know, I guess like my dad probably was nervous to kind of show me how he really felt and show us kids in general. Like, and I can understand being a parent, you don't want your children to see you go through pain and be sad cause then it makes them sad. So I think that he definitely pushed down his actual feelings for sure. And in turn it just kind of distanced us a little bit as I got older and more into the teenage years. Um, so we didn't do things together. I spent a lot of time in my room as like, I guess I'm not sure if that's for every teenager, but for me, I was always in my bedroom. I didn't want to hang out with my family. I just would text with my friends and listen to music. That's really all I did all the time. So I guess like between that and my brother, I just was like [inaudible]. Yeah, no, I definitely can relate to that. Kat: 27:59 Um, so tell me a bit more, you said that you've lived in like a small, like village. I'm very curious how this, kind of a side note, how did that like affects your grief? Sharnelle: 28:11 Um, it, it definitely kind of stuck. They spent a lot of time alone. Um, and usually every weekend I would go and stay with my friends in the neighboring town, which was about a half an hour away. Um, and that was really the only time besides school. I got to see any of my other friends because of the small town. The only other friend I really had was, she lived across the street from me, but she was five years younger than me, so she was just a kid too, as I was going through all of this. So for the most part, I'd hang out by myself at the hockey ring and just sit at the park and not really kind of do much. Boy, I'm sorry. That sounds so rough. Yeah. So, and then on the weekends, I'd honestly just hang out with my friends in the neighboring town and I'm honestly like surprised that my father let me do that and he trusted me enough to let me go away for the weekends. And then I'd usually come home and do stuff at home. But it was, that was really the only time I got to kind of hang out with anybody besides my family. Kat: 29:31 Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I mean, thankfully the debree town, I mean 30 minutes is pretty far, but at least it wasn't like three hours away. I'd be like, oh, Yay. This is really in the middle of BFE if the neighboring town is this far away. Um, yeah. You were saying with your neighbor, she was just, yeah, it was because she was 10 when your mom passed. So definitely pretty young. Uh, yeah, definitely. Probably could not relate to you on that level regardless of her age, but I'm sure that age, yeah, no, definitely, um, made a difference. So, uh, do you still, I guess kind of going back to, you know, your relationship with your grandma, do you, I mean, if you know she's alive or even if she's deceased, do you have the relationship with somebody else? Like, I basically, I guess, do you continue to cope with, you know, not having your mom to share life with in the same way that you did? Sharnelle: 30:34 Um, I definitely used to, um, until two years ago, my grandma did pass away actually on the same day that my mother had passed away. Oh God. Um, blushing and that was like, it just brought all of these feelings back and it was just so evil because like, uh, we can, some few days before that, her dad had passed away, she passed away in her sleep and it was just like a lot at once. And ever since then I really honestly don't have a lot of, Speaker 6: 31:13 um, Sharnelle: 31:14 people to go to. Like I have my mother in law, which she is definitely great to go to if I want to, but it's almost like it's the whole, Speaker 6: 31:25 um, Sharnelle: 31:26 the whole process all over again from when I was 15 where, you know, I don't, I don't want anybody to ever replace my mom. And then it just like brings back all of these anger feelings where it's like, no, like I don't, I don't want this. But then at the same time I have to tell myself, you know, ought to be angry that somebody is trying to have a relationship with you. And it just so happens that she's a mother and you kind of just can't be mad at her for wanting to help you through these things because you don't have your mom. So it's like all of these angsty feelings coming back and then I have to be like, you know, cool. Your jets are not the end of the world that you have a mother-in-law that wants to have a good relationship with you. So it's almost like I try to self sabotage any potential mothering figure because I didn't choose it, you know? Kat: 32:33 No, uh, yeah, that makes perfect sense. It's especially too, okay, you'll lose one mother figure at your mom and then, okay, I'm choosing to have a nother mother figure with somebody and they die and you're like, well shit. Like there goes to mother figures and you know, x amount of time. And yeah, I mean, people try and it's so, so hard when people are like doing things out of the kindness of their heart, but they're doing things that you don't want them to do. And the only mean, well, it's like, I don't know how to tell you. Kat: 33:13 And bless your heart. I feel like, you know, if your mom had like, well I'm not saying shit and have a best friend cause that's going to sound really, really bad. But if there's somebody who maybe grew up with your mom and I really value that just like in my own personal life because those people like sometimes know you better than your family does. Um, so is there like, do you find yourself, I take that back. Why do you think that you found yourself wanting a mother figure when your mom passed but not after your grandma passed? Sharnelle: 33:56 I Dunno, I guess because I essentially am tired of putting my trust in people and just to lose them I guess in a sense. Like I just feel like anybody that I love that just leaves me. Kat: 34:09 Yeah, no, I definitely makes sense. And it's sad too, but it's also kind of, I don't even know what the right word is. Um, like riveting, encouraging that like at the end it really just goes to show that at the end of the day you have yourself and yeah, it sucks. Like yourself is enough. Like when you just keep getting eventually, like it's sad if you're used to losing people. I mean that's really, really, really unfortunate. But it's like, okay, like I really cannot rely on somebody else to help me get through this, so I'm gonna either have to figure it out myself or get help from somebody who might not like be close to me, who might just be like a random person or you know, whatever, and then figure out how to handle it myself. So eventually, like I just rely on myself. Does that make sense or am I rambling Sharnelle: 35:10 that, that makes sense. Cause that's one thing I learned too when I was in the hospital, um, that you can really only rely on yourself. Truly. You can't change anybody but yourself. You can't control what anybody else does, but the only person that you can control is yourself. So it's just unfortunately a harsh reality. You just can only rely on yourself. So Kat: 35:38 yeah, I mean that's all there really is to it. But once you realize that like, you can get through this on your own, you're like, Dang, I'm a bad ass. Like, yeah. Okay. It's like life is pretty great, you know, that kind of thing. But yeah, in the moment it's really sucky and it's hard cause it's like, especially when you see other people, they're like, oh well they have their moms to help them, or Oh God. It's like a literally comparison is the actual theft of all joy. Sharnelle: 36:09 Yeah. Kat: 36:09 But Oh, that's just, I mean it's hard not to get discouraged, but eventually it just becomes an easier part of life and grief because that's just how grief works. Yeah. Like how was it telling that person? Um, I believe you said it was your mother-in-law, Sharnelle: 36:28 right? Kat: 36:30 Um, how like did you tell her that like, you know, you didn't want a mother figure? I'm curious about how bad, Sharnelle: 36:37 no, I, I, um, didn't tell her and I know that she herself treads really tend to, I think just because she doesn't want to upset me and I appreciate her, but I do kind of just like have pretty strict boundaries I guess when it comes to stuff like that. But I haven't really like told her. It's just, I guess something that I don't really talk about besides to, I guess my significant other. I just explained to him that, you know, I have a hard time trusting other women who potentially could be like, I guess a good influence or a good, a good person to be there for me. I just have a really hard time doing it. So I think that she just understands that and just kind of is pretty good about giving me my space and not trying to, you know, overstep boundaries, which I know that some mother-in-law's definitely do. Kat: 38:02 Oh yeah. If I need you liked out there? Yeah. Oh Gosh. Yeah. I could go into a whole other episode about boundaries. Oh those are hard. They're hard just in life in general. And then you put grief on top of it and you're like, Oh God, this isn't going to be a really good or really, really bad. Yeah. Um, okay. That's, that makes me feel better cause I can totally attest to that though. Like not really trusting other women because I'll look back on it now and I'm like, you know, Sharnelle: 38:34 okay. Kat: 38:34 I don't have any Speaker 6: 38:36 women in my life that are like a role model. I mean I have my mom's best friend, but they've been best friends since she was 21 so like that just kind of expected. But especially in my family, like in my immediate family, no, you know, it's interesting. I'd have to like really think about like why that is the case for so many women that have lost a mom. I mean I'm sure it's different for everybody, but when you really like look in, not look into it, when you, I guess when you're really like dissected, it's like it all kind of comes from the same thing, like a k losing your mom. So yeah, it's just interesting. But I'm glad that you at least were able to have that, you know, relationship with your grandma. But do you find yourself like, you know, since you at least don't really have that woman in your life that sounds really bad, but since you don't have like, you know, a motherly figure in your life, do you find yourself like kind of keeping in your grief or do you just tell other people that aren't woman? Um, Sharnelle: 39:51 yeah, I guess I mostly just kind of rely on my significant other a lot more now. Um, I just try to communicate like a lot with him about how I'm feeling and Speaker 6: 40:08 um, Sharnelle: 40:08 it really just kind of, I don't know, it's almost like when my grandma passed away that I was mourning the loss of a mother again because like, even to this day, like my heart just aches because I miss her and I know exactly how my dad feels and it aches because I feel for my dad and my uncle because they had to lose their mom and I just feel like all of this stuff coming up again because of this loss and I just am trying to not let it take over. But it's like if I suppress it, then it comes out in other ways like anxiety when for example, like just talking about my family here on this, I'm all of a sudden in my mind I'm thinking like, oh my God, are they going to get mad at me when they listen to this? Like are they, maybe they didn't know that this is how I felt or, um, I just am like anxious thinking that everybody's going to take it personally and I just always have to tell myself that I'm allowed to feel this way and it'll all be okay. Sharnelle: 41:32 But at the same time, it feels like the only person that I can really confide in is my significant other. Like I have a best friend, but you know, she has her own life now. She has boyfriend and she, we don't, we're not exactly the best at communicating. I guess. We don't really hang out. And I feel like again, I trusted her and she isn't necessarily there when I would like her to be, you know? Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. Sorry, I'll let you finish. I guess maybe I put too much pressure on her because of not having a mother figure. Maybe I was projecting it on her, like I'm, I'm not really sure. And I guess now I'm just kind of realizing that that's maybe why I had such high expectations out of our relationship. Kat: 42:33 Oh yeah. And it's literally like most of the time I noticed it's so unintentional. You're like, oh, like I didn't mean to like put you on a pedestal or you know, I didn't mean to expect this much out of you, but it's just kind of second nature, you know? It's kind of part of life. But Wow, I'm so glad that you have like a good relationship obviously from what you tell me with your significant other because that is so important. And like when you were saying communicating that I'm literally helping somebody. Like right now one of my clients, she's like, I need help communicating my feelings to my significant other. And I mean communication is key, but especially when you're grieving and it's so hard because you don't know how to communicate your feelings cause you're like, how the heck am I feeling? But it's like, okay, you need to communicate that. Kat: 43:19 You don't know how you're feeling because people don't get that. It's hard. But that's so funny and I think it really just goes to show too, like the importance of creating space for people where they can talk about their grief and you are absolutely 100% allowed to, I think you said like I'm allowed to feel this way or I'm allowed to think about myself. Is that what you said? Yeah, I just said that I'm allowed to feel like my feelings. Yes, you are 100% allowed to feel your feelings. Like that's honest to God. The only way that you weren't going to grieve and the only way that you are going to like get through this nonsense. Um, 100% without a doubt. So that's like where space comes into play. It's like you have the space for people where they are allowed to grieve because if they don't, if they bottle it up like you might not like you might think it's okay, but eventually it'll literally come back to bite you in the ass and you are going to hit your breaking point. And it's so sad. But that's why it's so like, yeah. I'm just, I'm glad that you realized that at least from what you know, what you're telling me. Um, yeah. Is there anything else that you want to leave with the listeners about? I guess coping with, you know, not having your mom. Oh, I take that back. Wow, this is going to be fun editing. Um, what advice would you have to someone who is really struggling with the concept of not having their mom to share life with? Sharnelle: 45:00 I guess it's okay to feel the way you feel and to reach out to others. Like I guess for me, I just projected it more on my friends and my grandma as, and then at times myself too. But it didn't end well for me just suppressing it. Like I ended up wanting to end my life and things like this. But in reality if you just can find somebody, even if it's your significant other or somebody just to listen for you to be able to kind of work things out and just communicate with, talk to it does get easier and as long as you have boundaries, you can have relationships with other people too. Like your mother in laws or your father and odds or even your dad. Like I have a pretty open relationship with my dad and I had to have a pretty open relationship with him since I was 15 and you know, going through my um, body changing phase that I had to Oh yeah, my dad four. So if you are, I don't know, just find somebody that you can talk to and don't keep it to yourself cause it just bites you in the Kat: 46:31 Yup. Okay. I was so glad. I believe that's not hammered into somebody's head after this episode. They'll just keep listening to it, keep listening to it because it literally just cannot say it enough. It's so, so, so important. Well. Thank you so much for being on the show. This was so much fun. Sharnelle: 46:48 Yeah. Great. Thanks for having me. Voiceover: 46:51 Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have four favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Third, had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Finally had to cap on our.com to schedule complimentary connection call with me. I'd love to know more about your grief journey. Always remember that despite losing our mothers, we have a flourishing futures Speaker 7: 47:43 [inaudible]. Voiceover: 47:43 This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Kat Bonner lost both her mother and her grandmother in a short amount of time. After embracing her own grieving process, she was inspired to help other women who have also lost their mothers. She is now a grief coach with her own podcast, "Life After Losing Mom." CONNECT WITH KAT https://katbonner.com/ Podcast - https://katbonner.com/podcast CONNECT WITH DAVINA IG @davinafaust Coffee Over Cardio discount - 10DAVINAF --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/turning-pain-into-power-podcast/support

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Bella Norton. Bella lost her mom to what she thought was an accidental drug overdose when she was 16 years old, but it wasn’t until six months later when she came to grips with the fact that it was actually a suicide, that her grieving process truly began. Bella opens up about her struggle to find value after her mom passed away and how she’s learned to manage those feelings and find ways to move forward in her life. What To Listen For Bella’s experience with coming to grips with the fact that her mom meant to overdose. How Bella struggled with anger towards her mom for taking her own life. Bella’s realization that even though it’s been nine years since her mother passed away, she still needs help managing her grief. How Bella is overcoming the feeling of not thinking she’s strong enough. How grief can make it hard to connect with other women and what to do about it. Bella’s experience of finding a best friend that has similar experiences as her. How having a best friend can increase the value you place on yourself. Dealing with having a real depressive episode after the loss of your mom. Bella’s realization that therapy is a powerful tool for coping with loss and that it shouldn’t be put off. How Bella has learned to put herself first and value herself. Bella and Kat’s thoughts on mental illness and it’s role in their mother’s deaths. The importance of joining support groups of like-minded women. How other’s actions impact our lives. How to deal with feeling ashamed of other’s addictions. How friends can let you down in your time of really needing support. Bella shares her story that everyone deserves to feel valued and loved and that grieving doesn’t need to equate to feeling less than. She’s found that connecting with real friends and support groups is key to managing her grief. Bella’s belief is that you are worth everything in this world. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself as a burden. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself like you're unworthy because you are. She brought you into this world and she loved you. Resources From This Episode: This is where you put the list of the guest links and links to any other resources (books, websites, etc.) mentioned on the show. They need to be in this exact formatting *note that there is no space between the ] and the ( Follow Bella Here Facebook Instagram Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript In 2013 Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found KatBonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of like-minded women head to Facebook and search for the Life After Losing Mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com. So before we get started with the episode, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure you've heard multiple times that grief is an individual process. Well, the people you heard this from aren't wrong because it very much so is you're probably wondering how can someone help me when they grieve differently than I do? That's why I'm so passionate about one on one coaching that is totally customized to you and your pain points. I let you guide me two ways. I can help you. I can, I'll, I take on three clients at a time. So the spots are limited. I'd love for you to tell me how I can help you in your grief journey. [inaudible] welcome to the show, Bella. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Um, so I just like to start off every episode with each woman sharing what they want to about the loss of their mom. Okay. Um, so, um, well I'll start a little bit before the loss of my mom because it kind of all builds up, uh, to losing her. Um, so I basically knew that a, a pretty young age that, you know, my mom had issues, um, you know, some, some mental illnesses and um, she also struggled with an alcohol addiction off and on and opiate addiction off and on. Um, so from the age of probably, you know, five or six, I, I was kind of treated as an adult. Um, and knowing everything that was going on with her. Um, I remember going to, you know, the hospital multiple times, a young age, seeing her on holidays, you know, and she had attempted suicide at that point. Um, so, you know, all of my life I was, you know, Kinda treated as a parent of my own parents. Um, so leading up to it, you know, I, uh, she could be completely normal at times. She could be, you know, my best friend at times we'd have fun together. We sang, we danced, we did a lot of things together. Um, she really in me, um, and, and basically, you know, gave me my sense of self worth. Um, so even knowing all the issues she had, I still believed her. You know, when she told me like, you're, you're worth it. You know, you're smart, you're talented, you're pretty. Um, but you know, when I was 16 years old, things kind of started really going downhill with her. Um, I would come home from school some days and she would just be locked in her bedroom. Other days I'd come home and, you know, she'd be outside grilling hotdogs on the grill, wanting to hang out and have fun. Um, but it was about a week after spring break. Um, I came home, uh, I was getting ready to go hang out with my boyfriend at the time. Um, and I was getting ready, not care in the world. You know, I was 16 years old. I was, I was going to go have some fun. Um, and my younger brother, who is 13, about to be 14, um, at the time, uh, came to me while I was getting ready and said, I think something's wrong with mom. Um, so I went in and I checked on her, um, and she was laying on her bed, completely incapacitated. Um, and at this point I was like, well, she took too many pills. She'll be fine. I, you know, I'd seen it happen before and I didn't really think anything of it. Um, so I, I told my brother, it would be fine, just, just give a little bit of time. So maybe 15, 20 minutes later he comes back in, he's super upset. Um, and he says to me, there's something really wrong. Um, so I went back to her brain and at this point, um, it was, it was pretty evident that something was very wrong. Um, you know, so I called nine one one, they got on the phone, they were like, can anybody do CPR? And at the time I was, I was freaking out. Um, and so my brother did it. Um, it, it, it did not work. Um, they, they got her out, they got a pulse back in the ambulance. Um, and, uh, the next morning I didn't get to the hospital because I, you know, I, I, I really didn't want to see you that way. Um, then I stayed with some relatives in a hotel that night that it came out from my dad's side of the family. Um, and in the morning I called my Nana. That was my mom's mom. Um, and I asked what was going on and they said they had taken her off life support at about one 30 that morning, um, and thought it wouldn't be long. So, uh, I asked my Nana if she could put the phone up to my mom so I could tell her goodbye. Um, and I said, I love you mom. And then about 10 seconds later I heard it flat line. Um, so part of me was like, you know, she waited for me to say goodbye and the other part of me was just completely destroyed. Um, and so for about six months, everyone told me that it was an accidental overdose. Um, we'll come to find out. One day I was with my Nana and she said, you know, do you think your mom meant to do that? And I was like, in my heart, I know she did. Um, and she said, well, you're right and you have a letter. Um, say, you know, I got my letter from my Stepdad at the time. And, um, it, it was like starting the grieving process all over again because I had convinced myself she didn't mean to do it. Um, but she did. Um, and in her letter she made that very clear. Um, so that's, you know, a little bit about, you know, what happened and how it happened. Uh, yeah. It's, uh, it's been tough. Bless your heart. Well, thank you for sharing. Um, yeah, it's so funny that you mentioned not like funny, but like ha ha, ironic, funny. Yeah. Ah, yeah. You're actually the first guest that I've had on the show whose mom died of like an overdose. Like it's been like, you know, just natural causes or like cancer, something that, which those still suck. Um, yeah, but it's interesting cause I think society in general just does not take addiction seriously and they don't think that it is a disease. And it very much so is, uh, my mom was an alcoholic, so I mean, essentially addiction led to, you know, our mom's demise. Um, but it's so interesting too, and it's hard. At least it was for me in my ad. I'm assuming, you know, it would be for you too. It's like, you know, you can't blame them for getting addicted, but it's like their actions and their decisions led to their addiction. So it's like, okay, you're caught between a rock and a hard place. Am I just speaking out loud or different the same way? Oh, I definitely feel the same way in too. You know, my mom's dad committed suicide when she was seven years old. So for me it was like, you knew how this would affect me or might affect me and my brother and you know, you still took those steps to do the same thing. Um, which has been very hard for me to get over because it's, you know, it's something that I'd like to say now, you know, I don't have kids, but if I did that, I would never do that to them. And there's been a lot of anger, you know, but I at the same time, it's like I understand as I get older and her struggles, her addiction, you know, her mental illness, she, she cannot help that. So No. Yeah, that definitely, yeah. I definitely can understand where you're coming from. I guess the way that I'm like thinking of it is like, okay, you know, my mom didn't think that in me and my brother were worthy enough to like basically be a parent too. So she decided to enter role as basically being a parent once again. Am I crazy or that thought ever run through your mind? Oh, it runs through my mind all the time. Um, you know, because we, we depended on her, you know, we had, we had that mother daughter relationship, but at the same time it was so much more than that. You know, I, I, I felt like, you know, why couldn't you talk to me? Why couldn't you tell me this is how you were feeling? And then I look back and you know, she did just without the words and I was so young that it's, you know, as I've grown up and grown older, I realized I can't lie myself. And at the same time, you know, as much as I, I don't want to blame her, that was hard decision and you know, that was her decisions that led her there. Um, and so, you know, at first and you know, it's been a little over nine years now and it's taken me this long to figure out, you know, I need help coping with this. Um, you know, it really did make me feel like I was not worthy of love from anybody. You know, if your own mother can make a decision to leave your life permanently, then why, why am I deserving of any type of love? Yeah. It's, yeah, that's definitely a big thing I noticed that comes with grief. The first word that's going through my mind right now is blame. And I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I feel like, like when you know, you experienced a loss, this tragic and just grieving in general, the first thing you want to do is blame somebody. And it's like, okay, like you either blame the person that you've lost or you blame yourself and then, and I'll actuality, it's like, okay, like playing the blame game does what I'm once, he probably does nothing, but it's like almost second nature. At least for me, it was in the beginning stages and then it's like, okay, like I'm a firm believer in like actions speak louder than words. So yeah. Like, you know, your mom loved you, but her action by taking her own life, like basically it's like, you know, you're not my mom anymore. Like you're not here to physically be my mom. So that actions spoke louder than any word that exactly. You know. And I think people don't really realize how their actions are going to affect other people and it sucks. Yup. I, so in, in her letter to me, you know, she, she read it the day before. She actually, um, you know, made the decision. I mean, she had made the decision there, but she read it the day before she actually committed suicide, um, on Anna, she said, don't let this destroy you. And it's like, what else is supposed to do? You know, like this isn't something that's, that's, this isn't a good thing. This isn't anything that's beneficial to me. Um, I needed you and no matter what state of mind you're, I needed you. Um, so it, it was, it was very confusing for me for a very long time and still is honestly, because, you know, as a parent, that is your job is to be there for your children. And um, you know, she wasn't and she's not. Um, so yeah, that's been very difficult for me, you know, overcoming that feeling of like, okay, you think I'm strong enough for something like this to not destroy me. It's like I'm strong, but that's not the point. It's not if you loved me enough, this one happened. So why, you know, and it sucks too. Cause it's like, you know, once again we're quick to say that we weren't in her shoes, but at the end of the day that's not like, and I'm not just, I don't have experience of suicide so I can't say that. But like I'm a firm believer in suicide's not the answer. Like, and I know how addiction works. I know that like they don't think they have a problem. But addiction in itself is almost like, and this is, forgive me if this is like wrong, but like say for instance for like, you know, my mom was an alcoholic, she was drinking and driving, which led to her dying in a car accident. But like, and I'm not saying it's suicidal because she wasn't consciously like making the decision to wreck the car, but in a way I think that addiction almost manipulates your brain to think that way. Like, eventually addiction is going to take your own life. Oh yeah. No matter if you mean to or not. You know, addiction is an, and there's such a stigma with it, that and suicide that it is not talked about in a very, in a very beneficial way to anybody. Um, just people are ashamed of that and then those left behind, you're ashamed of, of that as well. So it's just one of those things that you, you're never really going to get a handle on it if there is such a bad stigma with it, you know, it's the only way to get rid of the stigma unfortunately. They'll talk about it. Yeah. And then a lot of times those people don't want to do that. Yeah. Which I mean, that's fine I guess to each their own. But yeah. I how did you, like, did you feel like, you know, your value was effected a lot more in like your relationships, like your friends, like other women because your mom was a woman or was it just in general? I'm kind of curious about that. So, you know, growing up I was a super happy go lucky kid. I have a lots of friends. Um, but once that happened and I wrote my, my best friend at the time, we, um, she was the one that I call my auntie. Um, and, and we ended up having a falling out and that really, really hurt me. And I don't know if it was me or if it was her, but it was best of. But since then I found it extremely hard to connect to other women, especially, um, you know, and I, I didn't really feel like anybody who likes me because I felt like I had this, this stamp on my forehead that said I'm damaged, you know, God precheck girl. Yeah. And it was just really hard to make friends or to open up to people. And then two in my relationships, you know, with men, um, at first after app, and I was, ah, that was where I wanted to find my value. And looking back now, it definitely was not the answer. Uh, but that was why I place my value was like, you know, if these men want me, then that makes me lovable. Um, and it definitely wasn't healthy at the time, you know, at all. For me tried to cope with that, but it was, it was the only thing I needed. Oh yeah. I mean the American dream, right? Everybody's like, okay, like let me just turn to a significant other or somebody that I'm attracted to and try to use them to fill that void. Um, and it's like, even to like, even if you're the first one of your friend group that has like lost a mom, I feel like once you find, you know, other women that have lost a mom, you find other, other women pretty quickly, like you learn pretty quickly after, you know, the first one, hey, like I'm not alone, but like, yeah. And this is why I say I can't help men because I'm a firm believer that I literally can't, um, in the sense that like obviously obviously their brains are completely hard wired different than theirs are. But I noticed like, cause I was 18 so we were very similar ages when we lost her. Mom's like, you know, the teenage, I guess adolescent years don't even know what they were described as. Um, but yeah, like going up and like growing through college and like, oh, like you don't want to date a girl who's lost her mom. Like, I'm going, I guess that's a whole other like topic. But yeah, like we're hell at, first of all, we're hell are worthy of being valued. So anybody who doesn't value you can fuck off because they're idiots and agreed 100%. It's like, okay, yeah, you know that now. But like, you know, you wish you would've known that x amount of years later and it would've made, you know, the last nine years, not hellish. Yeah. But yeah. You know, that's how grief works. It's like, but the time when you reach that like pivotal moment, you're like, well, I guess better late than never. Yeah. Can't turn back time. You know, it's, uh, it's definitely been a journey for me. Um, and, and you know, like you said, about finding other women and, you know, once you find one that, you know, has lost their mom, and for me, you know, I went without having what some would call a best friend. I always said I had acquaintances, I didn't have friends. Um, I met my best friend, her name's Chloe. She's awesome. Um, she lost her mom at 16 as well, um, to an opiate overdose. Um, so once I met her and we establish that connection, there was no going back, you know, and just having her there for me has made a huge difference in how I value myself and you know, my self worth because I, you know, you know that you're not alone and then other people have felt what you're feeling. Yeah. I was literally about to ask like, how you kind of got over that Hump and like realized, you know, I am worthy and I was like, as I talk to more people, I feel like some like things in grief are very much so, like you have an epiphany and you're like, oh my God, this is how I'm going to heal from this specific struggle. And then other times it's a lot more gradual over time. And then you realize years later that you made, appealed like a long time ago. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. You know, um, for me it was for so long, I just, I thought there was something wrong with me and so I just ignored all of the feelings that are so I just pushed him aside and was like, you just gotta get through your day. Just go to work, you know, go to sleep, do it all again tomorrow. There's, you know, you just gotta do what you gotta do. Um, and until I actually was probably when I met her, you know, about two and a half years ago now that it, things really started looking up for me cause I did not feel so alone. You know, I felt like this person has been through something so similar as me and she's lovable, you know, she's worthy. The why, why would I feel like I'm not? Yeah, it's so interesting. Obviously the whole like process of grief honestly fascinates me. But it's so like weird how your like just feeling comforted, not like by somebody actually comforting you, but like literally having a woman in her life that has lost her mom. I'm like, not just like via like social media. Like, that's great, but like, actually physically having that person in your life, you're like, Holy Shit. Like, you know, like, yeah, you get through this together. And it just is literally like, yeah. And sometimes people get that I think too late. And it's also important to define somebody who's open about it because other people like, you know, I know women who've lost a mom and they don't ever talk about it. And that wasn't really helpful for me. Like I know it's going to sound really selfish, but I mean, if it takes two people to tango, you know, like, yeah. Is your friend like that? Like, can you attest to that or? Oh, definitely. I mean, you know, for, I've always been a very open person in general. I'm super and yeah, I let myself feel the things now that I'm feeling in the moment. Um, but for awhile it was something that I just ignored, you know, I, it, and I'm really didn't meet anybody who had been through what I'd been through, um, for a very long time. So I really did feel like, you know, you just don't talk about it. It makes people uncomfortable, but at the same time, you know, who cares if you make people uncomfortable because we're the only one that are living in our, our reality in our life. And you know, you've gotta do what you need to do for yourself to heal. So lol. I literally love you. I have some, I have some were the only ones, I think I was in high school still. I lost my mom. So like two months for a graduate of high school. Um, so most of the people like basically, you know, acts like they're there for you and then they're not. And I remember this one girl, we were really best friend throughout high school and then we like stopped talking and she told me one day she was like, you know, be around you when you get really sad or really emotional. Makes me uncomfortable. And I'm like, you gotta be my bro. Oh my God. Like I literally don't have anything to say to that. And I think now she probably realize, hey, I kinda fucked up. Well yeah, no shit you fucked up. But like, I just, and I know like, but you were just bringing that up and you were like making people uncomfortable that like, you've been through a lot. And I'm like, you know what, think about how uncomfortable I am. Exactly. Like you think this is hard for you. You think it's hard for you? Oh Huh. Let's back up. Yeah, I could go on a tangent. All hold it. That's so funny. Um, so were there like, you know, once you got to the realization, hey, like I am valued like by myself and by other people. Were there any huge changes that like you saw in your life or anything that was like more positive and different? So, yes. Um, for awhile, you know, I, I was an athlete. I was, I love to write poetry, I love to sing. And then, you know, once, once mom passed, it was just like, all of those things just slowly, I just stopped. I stopped. Um, and because I felt like I wasn't good at it, I felt like no one wanted to hear me saying no one wanted to read my poetry, you know, blah, blah, blah. But it took, honestly, I want to be real up front and honest here. I had a mental, like a complete mental breakdown, depressive episode type of thing a few months ago. Um, and it really took that to get me to realize, you know, you got to help yourself. Um, and, and the best thing for me has been therapy. Um, it's something that I put off for far too long. You know, I did it here and there after mom passed that I was just, I wasn't, I wasn't ready I guess at that point. Um, I wasn't ready to be unapologetically honest with myself and especially with anybody else. Um, until that happened to me. And my boyfriend actually was like, Bella, I love you. I want to be with you, but I'm worried about you and you have got to do something. Um, so that, that point, you know, the next day I started calling people, I started calling psychologists. I started, you know, really digging deep into myself and saying things have got change. Um, and so now, you know, I've started, I've started working out, which is something I did not do for years upon years upon years. Um, and it feels right, like just getting, getting myself going, getting myself moving again. It's, it's such a sense of accomplishment, you know, after I run my mile and after I, you know, drop my mile time and have, it's, it's awesome. Um, I'm still working on, you know, the writing part, um, just little post on Facebook here and there, just getting things off of my chest and you know, out of my mind and it feels great to just be open. Um, and one of the things I've always wanted to do is I've always been a person who goes out of my way for people who probably don't deserve it. And I think a lot of that comes from what I went through with my mom. You know, I, I want to help people and sometimes people that don't deserve it, but you know, so for me, being able to tell my story and be open to be honest about it has been one of the best healing, you know, processes for me. Um, and it may not be like that for everybody, but, um, I'm no longer ashamed of what I went through. I'm no longer ashamed of the choices that I made, you know, a few years ago and even up until recently that weren't necessarily good. But it's, it's to be talked about, it's gotta be, it's gotta be out there because someone needs to hear it. So yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I definitely think that everybody needs to talk about it. Everybody needs to share their story. It might not, it might take some people longer to realize that than others. But honest to God, the only way that you are going to heal is like sharing your story. And this sounds really crazy, but you know, I posted and like some of the Facebook groups like, hey, if anyone wants to share their story on a podcast, let me know. And I literally had, um, it was uh, another group that I'm in, I like posted the same thing and somebody commented back, they were like, why would we want to talk about all the shit that we've been through? And it just broke my heart to realize that like there are women out there who think that sharing their story will help other people, but they're so wrong because it will. Yeah. And I think that's why like creating space is so important. Like, I mean, yeah, people can share their stories on the Facebook groups, which is great. Like I'm not discouraging that at all. But there's something about like saying it like even if you say it out loud to the wall, even if you tell your fricking cat like whatever, there's literally something, and I can't describe it, but like actually like physically sharing your story out loud rather than typing it on paper. It's like, and then you find that one person and they're like, wow, you telling me your story changed my life? Like when you get that, like it makes all the shit that you've been through worth it because yeah, you know, it's like, you know, you can make a difference in one person's life. Like they literally might not ever have. And that's what I said, like to the reply, I was like, you know, like I provide this like space where people can share their story and help other people. Like think about it, this group has 400 members, which is like a great amount, but think about how many people or how many women there are out there in this world who could be listening to this podcast or who could be literally looking for something specific that might not be in that Facebook group. You know? Exactly like you sharing your story in the Facebook group, it's not a problem. But like when you have a platform that can reach millions and millions of people, it's like, oh, Mike, I, and I didn't know. Like, I knew I was not alone, but when I started this, everyone's like, oh, like your niche is too specific, like Lumen, you've lost a mom. Like I did not realize because I was debating between women who've just lost a mom and women that have lost a parent because that's still, I do think, you know that I can also help women that have lost a parent. But I was like, that's just where my heart is. It's just women losing a mom because I can 100% attest to that. But I was like, Holy Shit, there's a lot of people out there that have lost a mom. Like so many people. It's crazy. It's literally crazy. Like I don't know how to wrap my mind about it. And when you hear so many like stories from other people, like I hear your story and I'm like, oh my God. Like I'm automatically like, I love you. Like I just want to hug you. Like you're my sister. You know? And I know that sounds super cheesy and Cliche, but like do you, once again, I'm asking you, Hey, do you feel that way? But yeah, like what are your thoughts? I do feel that way. I mean, like I said before, when you're going through something and you feel so alone, you're really just looking for someone to understand you. And it's really hard when you feel like nobody does. Nobody can. And, and so, you know, I'm in a lot of support groups on Facebook, whether it be mother was daughters, whether it be, you know, survivors, suicide loss, you know, and in a lot of those groups, and I read these people's stories and they feel the same way that we do. You know, they just want to, to have someone understand them, they want companionship. They just, they want to know that they're not alone. And the only way that people are going to know that they're not alone, as if people talk about those things. If, if people reach out, if you know, it's, it's a hard thing to talk about. Of course. You don't just want to be like, hey, I lost my mom. You know, let's talk about it. But when you, when you feel like you're in a sisterhood of women that have gone through the same thing, because losing a mother, especially at a younger age and at a pivotal age, you know, like, like we were, that you just feel so lost. You feel, you feel like, you know, no one's gonna understand you because you have all these complex feelings. Um, and you can't just let that sit in your brain. You can't just let it eat you up alive or outs. You know, you're, you're not going to be the person that you're supposed to be. Yeah, I know. You're very right. I mean, if you think about that, like average person, like I know people who are my age who has every set of grandparents still alive, and I'm like, holy bowls, like holy shit, that like literally completely blows my mind. So, and it's, I mean, I'm not saying I love to talk about death, but like death is a part of life. And I think too, like when you realize that, um, you know, you find these group of people, like I never really understood, I guess the importance of like the support groups because I realized very quickly like I found those people in my life that I could relate to. Um, so I was like, oh, like why don't these people just, you know, go talk to someone they can relate to. But I guess it's like, it's always, once you think about it, it's always nice to have different opinions, which is why you have all these people. Like I noticed a lot of times when I needed something, I would go to the same person and that wasn't bad. But now looking back on it, it's like, wow, I wish I had gone to like other women that also lost their mom. So I could have talked to them about how they handled this rather than, I mean, any guidance is better than none, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But it's always good to have, you know, you want to see other people's stories because people deal with things so differently. You know, like my brother for instance, you know, he was super close to my mom and he's, I look up to him even though he's my younger brother, you know, I didn't go to college. My mom pushed college on me and after she passed I was like, I can't go to college, you know? But my brother, he is college to college. He's gonna graduate in December. He's so and so just resilient, you know? But he will not open up to anybody and it breaks my heart, you know, it breaks my heart because I wonder, what is this poor kid going through? What is he feeling? You know, I just, okay, we're total opposites. You know, it's a man. Yeah. He is a man. He is different from the others. It was the same way. Like I found out from my mom's sister, she was like, oh yeah, like, did you know your brother went to therapy? I guess he went to therapy like once. But I think men get very, very angry or they just suppress their grief. And here I am, you know, making assumptions. But just from what I know about men, I'm like, okay, I can't, I mean, I can help people who, you know, suppress grief, but I think women are also just a little bit more like realistic and like rational sometimes. And men are just like, no, I'm not talking about it at all. And I'm like, all right dude, if you're not going to talk about it, like I throw my hands up like, yeah. Like there's nothing more I can do. Like, do you let me know when you're ready? Stop. Sorry, my dogs pissed me off. Um, yeah, no, that's exactly why. Like, and I'm not saying Oh, men are like that, but yeah, that's a whole new, I think that's why I struggled so much with like finding like men in my life who could date someone without a mom because they're like, what the heck? And that's, you know, a whole topic for another day. But it's just like the world needs to break the stigma. Like the world needs to talk about death and it needs to talk about grief because how is it ever going to get better? Like literally people like this sounds bad, but people die from losing people. Like because they don't ask about it and they're like, oh my God, this person died. My life is over. And I'm like, well hopes because you acted like death didn't exist. Like it's just, it's honestly really crazy. It blows my mind and I think about it too. Like, I dunno, I just, and I try not to make assumptions, but I noticed a lot of times on the, I don't know, maybe there's just so many things that you know you need to find in yourself. Because at the end of the day, you are your biggest ally. You only have yourself like you. So like when you realize, hey, I am worth it. Like I am worth this. And then like, you're like, you know, I need to get my shit together. I need to put myself first, I need to focus on myself. And it pissed me off. And people were like, oh, you're being selfish. I'm like, first of all, you can go out whatever you want, but all you have is yourself, so fucking take care of yourself for God's sakes. That's not bad. It's, yeah, it took me a long to realize that, you know, from, you know, all the issues my mom had it. I had to think about her. You know, I wasn't thinking about myself. I was, I was thinking everything I did was to please her. Everything I did was to get her approval. Everything I did was to take care of her. So it was a struggle for me to feel like, Hey, I deserve to be taken care of. You know, I deserve, I deserve to be happy. I deserve to look out for myself. I deserve to do the things that I want to do. Because like you said, like this is my, and I deserve to be a little selfish sometimes because when it comes down to it, as you said, all you've got is yourself. You know, you can have relationships with people, but that's, that's not guaranteed. You know, they can leave you at any moment, but you're always, you're always going to be when yourself passing the care of yourself. You're never going to leave yourself. And I think like once like it takes a really long time to reach that point and like not just in grief but in life in general. And then your third grief on top of it and you're like, oh well there's a double whammy. But yeah, once you reach that point in your grief, like literally that is the game changer. Like I deserve to be happy. And I always say in life everything is a decision. So it's like, okay like you are worthy. So you choose to make decisions that make you feel worthy. Like you know, like you, if you want to be happy then you need to choose to make decisions that will lead to your happiness. And then eventually it just becomes part of your lifestyle. And you don't have to like choose anymore. Don't get me wrong, you know, you'll have your days. But I think that's where like self reflection and just like consciousness comes in, you know? And it's not easy. People don't want to think about it. But did like, did that happen for you? You know, um, like I said, it, it took like a literal mental breakdown after just holding everything in for me to say, you know what? Like, I have to stop being ashamed of these feelings, that spiel. I've stopped being ashamed of decisions I've made. I have to stop being ashamed of how I feel about myself. You know, I used to, I used to love myself and when mom left me, it just puts, it made me question everything. Um, um, and so, you know, I, um, I was recently diagnosed bipolar and this came after, you know, my mental breakdown. Um, and I was super ashamed of that because my mom was bipolar and the last thing I wanted in my life, it was to hear, hey, so are you. Um, but I'm so, so, so proud of myself for finally putting my needs first and saying, you know what? I do have these issues and I do need to take care of it if I want to live reply that you know, I deserve and everyone deserves happiness. And it's hard when you go through something like we've been through to, to value yourself when you know, you feel like your own mom didn't even value you to a degree. Um, so yeah, it's definitely, it's, yeah, it's a very tricky thing to manage and to understand. Then there's some things, you know, you just won't understand, but like, especially after this conversation, if there's one thing I realize like don't be ashamed of anything like it. Like you're enough, like you are more than enough. Like there's no, you know, and I think it's just because society is so quick to give grief negative stigmas. But like one of my friends told me a quote once a grief is the price that we pay for love. And when I think about it, it is so true. It's like, you know, like yeah, like you would rather have your mom, but like you loved your mom so much for cardless of any decision anybody makes. And I think too, like literally any decision, I say any decision that I made like four years of being in college at losing my mom just completely ignore them because they were probably the worst decisions I've ever made in my life. Girl, yes, I feel you on that. But yeah, people are just so, some people don't care, you know that which you know is fine. But yeah, like you know, you loved your mom so much that you are grieving her and not very many people in the world get to say that. And that's something, that's something to be proud of. Like fuck yeah, me and my mom had this good a relationship. Like it hurts so much when she's gone, but it's like I have the best mom ever. You know, like yeah. Even with all her issues, I felt that way, you know, it was like, you know her dark side. Yeah. I mean this literally like I'm going to love you through it, like through thick and thin no matter what. Because actions and decisions don't make people, the people that they are, you need to look like you know their heart. And that's what's important. Um, so I think that's a really great place to close. Um, Lynn and on a happy note, right? I always try to do that. Um, is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners about your stories just about grief or mother loss in general? Um, you know, it feels like a downward spiral. It feels like you're just, I use this analogy a lot and I've used it a lot of times when I just steal, completely lost his, I feel alive. I am, I'm drowning and I'm in the ocean and there are boats going by and people are just looking at me wondering what is she doing? And no one will throw me a lifesaver. But at the end of the day, you're the only one that you can depend on to save yourself. You are literally the only one and you are worth it. You are worth everything in this world. Um, and it may feel like you're not after, you know, losing someone so special to you, like your mother, but your mom would not, you know, anybody listening this Austin mom in any type of way. Um, you know, your mom would not want you to look at yourself like a burden. Your mom would not want you to look at yourself like you're unworthy because you are. She brought you into this world and she loved you. So remember that, you know, remember that. Oh my God, I love that. Yep. Okay. I'm just going to let that sit and resonate already for a little bit. Um, yeah. Well, oh my God, I am so thankful for you in new your vulnerability. I know it's not easy to come up here and show your story, but it resonated with me and I know it's going to resonate with so many people. So I think you, yeah, think me. It was awesome. I felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders even more. Yes. That's what I love. People sharing their story and like, yes, you get to help people and you get to help yourself. Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have four favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Third, had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Finally had to cap on or.com to schedule a complimentary connection call with me. I'd love to know more about your grief journey. Always remember that despite losing our mothers, we have a flourishing futures [inaudible]. This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by blogger Laura Duck. Laura lost her mom to a battle with cancer when she as 17 years old, but it wasn’t until four years later that her grief truly kicked in. Laura opens up about her struggle with guilt after her mom passed away and how she’s learned to manage those feelings and find ways to move forward in her life. What To Listen For Laura’s experience with delayed grieving that hit her four years after her mom passed away How Laura struggled with grief for years without being aware of it Laura’s belief that you can only be strong for so long and how things changed for her when her grief kicked in The things that Laura feels guilty about and what she regrets most about not doing with her mom when she was alive Her role today in holding her family members together and how her relationship with her dad has impacted her healing process How therapy brought her feelings of guilt to the surface and how she learned to move past them How grieving as an adult is different from grieving as a teenager Laura’s guilt triggers and what she does to work through them Laura’s realization that her grief process is a testament to how her mom raised her How her mom is still present, but in a different way, and how Laura has learned to find those moments How Laura processes feelings of guilt on good days vs. bad days The importance of telling others what you need to help with grieving Laura’s views on grief as a choice and how she makes a conscious choice to move forward How Laura’s obsession with positivity has impacted her experience with loss Why blogging makes an ideal outlet for Laura’s grief and guilt Laura shares her belief that everyone deserves to be happy and that grieving doesn’t need to equate to feeling guilty. She believes that everyone’s feelings are valid and explores this theme through connecting with other people, whether it’s her family or people she meets online through blogging and social media. For Laura, grief doesn’t rule every moment of her life, and she shares her experience in how she arrived at this positive place despite losing her mom and struggling with guilt. Resources From This Episode: Instagram Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript Laura Duck: 00:00 I'm like, well, you kind of like fake it until you make it. Like you kind of just keep like thinking right yet. No, it's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. And then one day you wake up and it is fine. Voiceover: 00:10 In 2013, Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found at KatBonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the Life After Losing Mom Community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com. Laura Duck: 00:58 So I guess I'll be eight years in October. Um, so come up quite a while now. Um, to be fast. I feel like a lot of the people I meet through that, the kind of community on Instagram is all very new and role. Um, and it's hard to kind of find the middle ground, but yes. So it's nearly eight years ago. Um, and she died from a brain tumor on, it was the second time around. Um, so I think a kind of battle with cons, a lost and maybe like four years in total. Um, so quite a long time. Um, with, like I said, she got the Oakland. Um, and then I think it was unlike Hassad, um, scan off to that. We'd seen that it came back. So yeah, that's um, that's kind of the basics of it. Kat: 01:53 Gotcha. Well, yeah, thank you. Laura Duck: 01:56 Straight in with it. Kat: 01:58 Exactly. Thank you for sharing. Um, how would you say, so let me see. So it was a brain tumor and he said her battle with cancer was about four years. Um, was she in remission or was it just like a straight for your battle? Laura Duck: 02:14 No, it's about, yeah, exactly that. So what actually happened was she was diagnosed with epilepsy to begin with. Um, so she was treated with after that skull for epilepsy for maybe the first year and a bit. Um, and then we're actually just going on a family holiday in the UK so that it wasn't a broad, we're going on holiday and we got to the destination, which is about, I'd say three hours from home and she received a phone call from, uh, the hospital basically saying human error, misplaced her scan results. Um, and yeah, she needed to come in for a gym, um, operation on her brain basically. Um, yeah, so that was the first time. So it was removed the fast time and just had loads, chemotherapy and radio therapy went into remission and then, yeah, it was on the, for a checkup after. So I think she had gotten every three months, I want to say. Laura Duck: 03:09 Um, and then, yeah, I'm on the side one day, found that it returned, but the position of it where in the brain, uh, meant that they couldn't operate. Um, so she had kind of the rest of her dose of radiotherapy, um, and she couldn't have any more. So then she tried to chemo, um, in the march of 2011. Um, yes, she was told that there's nothing more they could do and she could kind of decide whether to keep having chemo and, and see what happens, but the chances are I wasn't going to help. Um, and she decided to stop taking medicine. Kat: 03:44 Interesting. I love how you mentioned Laura Duck: 03:48 yeah. Kat: 03:49 That she was diagnosed with epilepsy first because I feel like those cases are just becoming more and more common, I guess has medicine progress's almost, which is kind of funny to me because I'm like, yeah, okay, it's human error. But in my mind, you know, if medicine is, you know, only getting better, why are these that, you know, misdiagnoses happening. So how, I'm curious, what were your feelings about that? Laura Duck: 04:19 I must've been, so I'm 17 when she died, so I must have been like 14, 13, 14 at the time. Um, so everybody remember feeling anything and it was all kept quite harsh, harsh at the start. So when she received the call and we are on holiday, the rest of our family just stayed on holiday with us and she went home. It was like, it's really bizarre and it's all kind of blurry. I don't remember at the time worrying, I just thought, well, I'll go sort of thing. Kat: 04:53 Interesting. Yeah. I feel like, you know, 17 is an age where you can process the loss. Mm. Um, but Laura Duck: 05:06 yeah, Kat: 05:07 you know, 13 how old you are, you know, when your mom got sick. I feel like that's a very difficult age. The process, you know, the diagnoses. So can you walk me through like, you know, what you thought, I guess when you know your mom was diagnosed, like what, what's going on in your 13 year old brain? Laura Duck: 05:25 Yeah, I guess 13 year old me just kept low. Just like most people think their parents are invincible. You don't really realize the extent of it all. Um, even like four years and I'd say even the month before she died and she's in badge most of the time. It never ever crossed my mind that she's going to die because she got better the first time. So she's going to just get better again and it's just shit at the moment. But it's going to get better and it will be fine. I never, I never remember sitting right Speaker 4: 05:57 thinking Laura Duck: 05:59 she's going to die. Yep. Kat: 06:02 Yeah. I just so late maybe as to it. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. Every, even if like, you know, we know our mom is sick or whatever. Like what person I guess in their right mind thinks that their parents are going to die. I mean that's why I always say it doesn't matter. You know if the loss is expected or unexpected because it doesn't matter if you know the truth. Like it's just, I mean I'm miracles happen and then like tragedy strikes and that sort of thing. Like literally anything can happen. So yeah. That's interesting. So, okay. Where did you notice, like Laura Duck: 06:40 your Kat: 06:42 like real struggle, I guess dealing with, you know, the loss? Was it immediate or did it take a little while maybe as you know, we're out of high school. Laura Duck: 06:52 Yes. So I, I'd say I probably struggled from the star but I wasn't aware of it. Um, I say that my grief and started four years later. So when I, from basically the day that she dies on them before, but the day that she died I was very still, I'm like okay with it. I don't know, it was, it's really weird to say because I think my dad died. I'd be beside myself, but I've been through it with my mum and that wasn't the case. But yeah, I was just very much like next like I think it was the next day pretty much. Um, and that wasn't the next day and a week later. Sorry, cause it was hard to time. So we had a break from school and when I was going back to school, I had um, work experience. I have two weeks' work experience. And I remember going in on the Monday meeting where the stocks and everything meeting the lady who was like my manager at the time for the two weeks. Laura Duck: 07:51 And I was like, oh, by the way, um, my mom died last week. So like if I'm upset or I need to go home or if I'm just feeling a bit weird, like why? And she's like, oh, okay, um, you shouldn't be here. And I was like, yeah, yeah, no, it's great. It's fine. Loving it. And she's like, okay. So everyone didn't know how to take me because I was just so like, yeah, my mom died, you know, shit happens. Like it's just one of those things. So literally for years I was like that. Um, and then it hit like a ton of bricks. Kat: 08:24 Yeah. That's so funny. I was about to say, so if I do the math right, you're 25, Laura Duck: 08:30 25. Yes. I see. Yeah. 25 out one. Yes. When I was about 21 ish. All starts doing it. Yeah. Kat: 08:37 Okay. I was like, yeah, that wasn't too long ago. Seeing interesting that you say that because I was 18 when I lost my mom. So like those four years, like I really, you know, didn't grieve I guess as being in college. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people can attest to like a distraction and that sort of thing. Like when like my focus was just like surviving and not flunking out of school, but sometimes, you know, those distractions, I mean like they're ha they're helping you, but like you don't realize how much you're not grieving until you start to grieve and you're like, oh God. Like, you know, so when did, I guess you realize, so yeah, you're about like 21 or so when you're great fit. Um, how, like for you living close to your dad or, you know, did you kind of like figure things out on your own? How did that process go? Trying to figure everything out. Yes. So, Laura Duck: 09:36 um, when, um, I was in second, yeah, I would have said, um, we call it college, I don't know what you call it. Yeah. The same thing. Same thing. Um, so I just, I was living away at the time. Um, and I only came home as a couple of weekends, so I was used to being away from your family home. Um, so I had one more year with that. Um, just living away. So kind of just, I was away from it. I wasn't having to face every day. And then when I came home I was living with my middle sister and my Stepdad, um, who, when actual, I feel bad cause I have love for him, but we don't see Iti. Um, we're not the closest. And I say hi if I see him, it's one of those I don't really check in on him. Laura Duck: 10:28 Um, so when I came home from college and I was in heaven, I then moved in with my dad and my stepmom and my dad is my best friend, Mike. We're so, so close. Um, and yeah, so I was with him for three months and just because my mum and dad spelled when I was maybe like one, one and a half, so, so young. So my whole life, my mum and my dad had been separate and I've never lived with my dad. So things were tricky living with him and adjusting as an adult as well, and having never lived with him. Dynamics, we'll just straightened, not necessarily between me and my dad, but just in the whole kind of atmosphere of the house. Um, yeah. And then so I went to live with my auntie. Um, so it was all very like focusing on like the next thing. Laura Duck: 11:20 And other than that I think as well, one main thing is my family always thought that I was going to lose it. I'm sorry I wasn't a bad teenager, but I was, I don't know, rebels of Cringila to say, but I wasn't always by the book. And I think my Auntie in particular, so I was probably gonna go down some wrong roads, but, and I think that in the back one mind meant the, I focused even more on not doing that. I wanted to prove everybody wrong. Um, and so I think by being upset, negativity, grieving or negatively on a being, I don't want people to say, oh his, she goes, so I just kind of kept going, kept going, kept going. And you can only do it for so long. Kat: 12:07 Yeah, you're exactly right. Um, it's interesting that you point out that, you know, your parents were separated your whole life or most of your life and then you live with your mom. And I'm like, okay. Like she 100% like was not just your mom, obviously I'm just, you know, assuming based on what you're telling me. But I feel like that, that's how I was too. So it makes things like, it's like, okay, a double slap in the face. But you mentioned, you know, like you're not really being close with your Stepdad. Um, were they married when your mom passed by chance? Laura Duck: 12:43 Um, so they were together for a long time. Did they get together? Maybe when I was like to really, um, oh yeah, they never married. They want the typical like couple that's in love. I never felt love vibes from them. Um, but just to paint a picture, and I can say this, cause I know he's never going to listen to this. Um, a month or so before she died, we all knew that it was going to go that way. He decided he wanted to marry her and it was very, um, money related, should I say. Um, so it thought up tricky situations, especially within my, obviously my mom's family and him, um, me and my sisters and him, me and my little sister because my little sister is my Stepdad's child. Um, so it's been hard to kind of navigate that as well, taking into consideration of the, see how feelings. Um, so yeah, there are an altar call pool. I don't know, I felt like they had love for each other, but you know, when you look at a couple of things, it never was that I don't think, Kat: 13:56 sorry, I, as soon as I asked about like being married and then you started talking, I was like, okay, I probably should of rephrase that and I should have asked like, no, Yay. When were they together? No, I'm, Laura Duck: 14:08 I'm cool with that. It's fine. It's, it's cause it's one of those topics that like I, it's there. Um, but it's tricky to talk about because like I said with my little sister and stuff, it's one of those topical conversations that has been just brushed onto the carpet. It's the assumption that's there. Um, and it's tricky to actually address it. So it's all the politics of like brings up so much family politics. Like it's ridiculous. Kat: 14:34 Oh my God, you are so right. It's just my blind. I'm like, okay, this literally goes to show, I used to think the old adage, oh, blood makes family and then my mom died. I'm like, this is so not true. Laura Duck: 14:48 Definitely Kat: 14:49 just be kind of how people have acted. I'm Ah, yeah. Laura Duck: 14:52 And it's not even just like money, but it's just like those that say they're there for you on and it just goes down to the simplest of things. And I think when, because maybe some actually you, while I was living with my mom and then she passed away, I didn't only do this, my mom, I lost my family home. I lost sight of everything else. That kind of comes with that dynamic. Kat: 15:15 Okay. Literally lost everything. I mean, that's grew up as unit, like that's growing up, you know, that's what you knew. And then so do you feel, I mean, I guess it's different because yeah, your Dad's, your dad, your Stepdad, snatch your dad, but your stepdad was with your mom. So do you ever feel like any sense of guilt, you know, not being close to your Stepdad and being close to your dad or anything like that? Laura Duck: 15:46 Um, I guess I'm, I, I'm the bridge that holds everybody together to be honest. So I have my thoughts and my views on my Stepdad, but I'll never let that affect anything. Um, in tons of, like I said, my relationship with my notes and little sister, um, I have love for him because he's been that father, not father. Think of my dad's been amazing, but he's been like the man of the house, say my whole childhood. So I talked to him. He was a great step done, but it was just the last is of my mom's life. And then living there with him. I just saw the sides to him that just, I was like, I don't know if I agree with this. Um, so yeah, I'd say I have enough full him for the role that he paid the full. Um, but right now I, like I said, art, possum industry, I'd say hi, but I wouldn't necessarily stop. Kat: 16:45 Oh my God, that's such a good answer. You have nothing to feel bad about if you, even if you do, just based on what you're telling me, because I'm not close to certain people in my family. I'm not gonna say who didn't, who knows? They might be listening to this and, but people were like, oh, like you're not close with them. Like, why not? I'm like, first of all, it's none of your business. Second of all, like we were never close to begin with. And then, like you said, death changes people. So yeah. Um, do you by chance did, were you like your mom's caretaker Kinda, sorta? Laura Duck: 17:20 Um, well, she, I say we all were. Um, I wasn't solely, no. And because I was living away a lot, I didn't see a lot. Um, but she was canceled at home right up until she died, so she died at home as well. Um, and we were just lucky enough and I'm really grateful for it that we had the space in the house, um, to kind of facilitate like a hospital room, basic base. So like downstairs we have a low, well not downstairs, we have a local hospital, we have a local hospice. You're downstairs, um, co like a hospital beds. And we had carers that would come during the night and start. And then if mom ever needed some respite, she'd go over to the hospice and it says beautiful, kind of like Manna House, um, with beautiful gardens where people would like, um, take her around in the wheelchair she needed to or wanted to. Um, so yeah, I, um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't take the credit. No, I wouldn't say that I was, we were very much a part or I was a part of it. Um, but I've got to give that credit to kind of my sister's probably in the carers that came, um, during the day and night. Kat: 18:28 Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I hear a lot about like does caregiver, um, p t s d staff, which means, you know, my mom wasn't sick and I wasn't here. Caregivers. I don't know about that. But did you experience like any, you know, negative feelings toward that, you know, after your mom passed? Yeah, Laura Duck: 18:51 it was a really big mixture of an I can, I've learned to accept that this is how I style, um, is a really big mixture of relief and thank that it was over. Um, and then the other half was like, well, what now? Like we're always kind of like, I'm waiting on different like milestones or different, um, results or vessel that we're always waiting on different things. And then it almost got to the point then when we were waiting for her to die, which is horrible. Um, Speaker 5: 19:24 but Laura Duck: 19:25 it was, yeah. Oh, 50, 50 old, thank God for that. And then what do I do? What do we do now? So, no, I wouldn't say it was intense, um, necessarily, but there was factors of, yeah, I guess kind of w yeah. What you do now, what's your, what's the parkers now? Like, what, what role do I play now? Kat: 19:47 Yeah. And why that you mentioned that because I mean regardless, nobody wants to see their parent die. I mean that's just fucking awful. But it's interesting that you mentioned like the relief and then you're like, eh, like, okay, I'm kind of lost and confused because you got so used to something for, you know, four years or however many years and then it's not just like your mom not being there, it's a whole like change in what you're used to regardless of like, I know your mom being sick or anything like that. Um, I am curious though, is there anything that like you wish you would've done or said to your mom or anything like you regret? It's like just in the back of your mind, you know, while she was still alive. Like why she was sick and fighting. Laura Duck: 20:38 Yeah. So I used to, this was like the main thing. So like, yes, I'm in afternoons and her, when I kind of, everything, the main thing that used to haunt me was because at 21 I've got a job, I'm earning money. I can look after myself. I'm no longer living at home. I'm on live in, I've moved away to a different city, so on, on the lot more independent. So what used to hold me, it was like wish I could've just taken her out for coffee or I wish I when she wanted to go for a walk, I would have gone with her or I wish I could've taken out to dinner or we could have gone to the cinema and all of these things. And it wasn't until actually I started getting counseling therapy, um, that she brought to my attention, my counsel brought to my attention that like all of these things that I'm feeling guilty for and on regretting one things that were possible at the time. Laura Duck: 21:35 So like from the age of 17 to 21 although it's only four years, but in terms of maturing and your life changing, that's a massive period of time. Um, so yeah, everything that I was failing was things I could do at 21 but not necessarily. I could have done at 17 and like things like say going for a walk when she wanted to or when she was able to, I was 17 I want us to be out with my friends. Like, like I said to you before, I didn't think she was going to die, so why am I gonna waste half an hour walking down to the bottom of the road and back up again? Whereas like now I see the importance of that and it's just those, those things. I just think, oh, it's only you noodle aura that that would make her so happy or it's half an hour of your time. Just go do that and then you can go see your friends asked. But I was just selfish and a typical teenager. Um, yeah, I'd say that's like the main things, but I do feel guilty for them, but I kind of don't really allow myself, I don't allow it to like swallow me up anymore because it's just a different perspective is different. I'm grieving as a 21 year old instead of 17. Kat: 22:51 Yeah, that's a very good point. And I mean, there's always things that, you know, after someone passes, you realize like you should have done differently or you know, things like that. But it's nice that you mention that, you know, you were just being a teenager, you know, I mean you, it's obviously that is a sign that like you're healing and you've healed from that because I mean you didn't mean any harm by it like you were just being 17 whatever. Um, but yeah, sometimes it just takes us a while to realize those things because there is a v like a difference in maturity like in a 17 year old versus a 21 year old or regardless of you losing your mom at 17 that doesn't mean you just grow up and figure things out right away. And I feel like a lot of people just assume that like, oh, like you, your mom when you were young, like you must've grown up really fast. And I'm like, yes. And No. Like once I grew up, I grew up, but was a matter of like growing up, it doesn't matter getting there because I was like, I was not mature for like a good two years. So can you attest to that or am I just crazy? Laura Duck: 24:04 No, I, I agree. I think I've always like, like to think I was mature, but like when you look back, you to say you had no idea. Um, so yeah, I didn't, I don't think I grew up quick at all. Um, if anything, you kind of pause in that moment and you're a bit like, Oh God, like what do I do? What happens now? So if anything now you're kind of one hope for a little while rather than kind of catalin intimate shorty. I don't know. Kat: 24:32 Oh God, yeah. I was like a baby. I had like a pit. I was like a pity parties left and right. But I mean, whatever, you have to do what you had to do to get through the day. I exact, so that was my philosophy. Um, how long would you say the struggle of like feeling guilty? Um, you know, lasted. Laura Duck: 24:54 Mm. Um, I think it like, it morphs, it changes. I feel guilty even now, but for like different reasons. So I'd say the guilt of not being or not doing what I wish I could have done, um, publicly maybe two years. Um, but having that conversation with the fire and my therapist have not, um, it did how changed my perspective, but then obviously you've got to then take time to accept that and kind of take control of that, but kind of ownership of that. Um, so let's say like two years, but I still feel guilty now, but yeah, let's, like I said, just different reasons. Um, now it's more that days will go by and [inaudible] thought about her, maybe like subconsciously, but some days will go by and I won't think about how once and not like breaks my heart to say that because it's horrible to admit that because you think, am I forgetting about horrible? Laura Duck: 25:59 Oh, I don't know. Yeah. It's hard to put into words, but I spoke to this lady, um, on my Instagram page actually, and I was having this really on his conversation with her bouts and I love that cause you just get so many different perspectives on people that have gone through similar things. And she was like, Dora, like you call, where do you think like that? Like, yeah, okay. Each day goes by, you might be kind of, um, thinking about how less there's only because she's just becoming more of what you do. So like a day might go by that I haven't thought about how, by the way, I carried myself in. The things I've done in words I've sat are a testament to how she brought me up. It's like how she's affecting, um, yeah, how I grow up and things like that. So it's not that I'm forgetting about her, it's just that she's present in a different way, if that makes sense. Kat: 26:49 No, it makes perfect sense. And as soon as I asked that question, I was like, okay, once again, my verbiage is probably terrible. I should have probably asked like, hey, how many years would you say your guilt was consuming you? Because obviously you're going to be, yeah, it's going to be times you know when you're feeling guilty because that just grief and grief has never ending. Um, but oh my God, you are my soul freaking sister. I, I'm in the exact same place. Like people, I feel awful. Like you were saying, there are days where I don't really think about my mom or at least I don't make an effort to intentionally think about her. And I honestly think that that has to do with the fact that like you are like healing and you were in a good place in your grief and that's okay. Kat: 27:41 Like, yeah, if there's like a sunset, I'm like, oh hey mom. But I mean sometimes we get, I mean it's just like, I feel like there were days, it's almost like talking to your mom every day, you know? And I look back on it and I'm like, did I actually talk to my mom everyday? I'm like, probably not. There are probably some days where I was just like, Hey, love you. Hey night, I love you. Like that sort of thing. So there were honestly probably days for me, my mom didn't talk just because that's life. That's the way that I have to picture it in my head. Laura Duck: 28:16 Yeah. Like even now, like that's so true because like say they were alive now all we like you say, are we going to be thinking about them or talking to them every single day? Like probably not like life happens and it like, I'll try and speak to my dad on the phone like every couple of days, but sometimes a week will go by and dad will be like, oh, like just checking in and I'm like, Oh God, I'm so sorry. Like I was managed to ring you on Wednesday. And then life happened. And I haven't even thought about in those days in between like, oh, I really should call my dad. It's not until he reaches out and I think, oh yeah, I did say that. Sorry. Um, so it's just the reality of it. But I think their absence makes certain failings bill that. Kat: 29:00 Yeah, and that's why we feel bad. That's why we feel guilty about it because they're not here and it's like this sounds bad, but I don't feel guilty about not talking to my dad for a week because my dad's still here and if my dad wasn't here and I didn't consciously think about him, I would be like, oh, okay, whatever. And then it's just feel like too, I feel like you feel really bad whenever you have like a bad day or a hard day or like shit hits the fan and you're like, oh God. Like I haven't thought about my mom and light amount of days and I'm just like, okay, this is really awkward. What now? Laura Duck: 29:36 Yeah, definitely. And I think like you say, it's when like normal stuff will happen that's maybe like a bad day. But then somehow, I don't know if you got the same, I'll be having a bad day just in general and mom could be alive and she could be dead, but this day is going to happen. And then at the end of it using jabber mom was here and it's so much different. Everything so much better. Cool down. I could have spoke to her about it, but I can't, she's not here and it just, yeah, it makes the day so watch us and it's just stupid cause it's just the normal bad day. Kat: 30:08 Yeah, it is. Do you, I'm curious, do you feel guiltier I guess not thinking about your mom when you're having a good day or when you're having a bad day? Speaker 6: 30:19 Yeah, Laura Duck: 30:20 that's a good question. Kat: 30:22 For me it's a bad day, but Laura Duck: 30:24 yeah, cause I feel like, yeah, if I'm having a bad time or something's upset me. I think just kind of instinct thing. Like you instinctively, um, the pastoral work or um, you feel to like, yeah, go to your, your mum. Like that's just like a thing that you would naturally think. So yeah, maybe if you're having a bad, if I'm having a bad day and I don't think about her, that'd be very unusual and I'll show guilty. But to be fair, if I have a bad day, I think about how so I've never really thought about it, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. That's probably throw me that question because I never even really thought about. Speaker 6: 31:06 Yeah. Kat: 31:07 Yeah. It's interesting. Like I mean you are right instinctively like when you have a bad day you want your mom obviously. So that's when I feel really guilty about like, oh my God, like I can't believe I'm just now thinking about her because I'm struggling but like, and maybe it's just me being in the kind of person that I am. I mean, yeah, when I have a good day, like I want to tell my mom, but I was never that kind of person that like when I had a good day, she was never the first person that I told like it's it can happen. Like I have other people in my life. Then I would tell them to, I will tell my brother, I would tell like my best friend or that sort of thing. And that's still true to this day. But I think that's why the guilt hits me so hard is because there is nobody that can make any bad day better other than your mom. But there are people who can make a good day better that aren't your mom Laura Duck: 32:01 100%. Do you know what? That's so good to hear because I've never like, I've never thought about it that way, but it's so true. Speaker 6: 32:10 Yeah. Laura Duck: 32:10 Gotcha. Kat: 32:11 Well good. Uh, yeah. So how did you, like obviously I think you know, your therapy helped you with your guilt, but now and like, you know, your day to day life, like what helps you if you have one of those days where you're just really feeling guilty, like how you cope with that? Laura Duck: 32:29 Um, I just, I have a really good group of like people around me. Um, I've moved again. I've actually moved nine times. I can't say to the other day nine times since my mom passed away. Kat: 32:41 Holy Cow. A lot of time. Laura Duck: 32:44 Um, yeah. So I now live in and I'll just say, well, another town, um, which is about two hours away from home. Um, so yeah. Um, it's a long story, but I will, when I was traveling on that, I'm a girl who's now my best friend and she was here when I was missing hard stuff, just hanging out. Um, one of her childhood friends is now my boyfriend and my whole life has just kind of like walked around this area now. Um, but yeah. What was the question again? Kat: 33:17 Oh yeah, sorry. Um, how do you cope with like when you have those moments for feeling guilty? Oh, sorry. Laura Duck: 33:23 Cool. So, um, yeah, so I've now built like a license for me in a whole new place with amazing people and it's actually very few people in my little network that would, that at the time mum passed away. Um, so not the people I know now. I never actually met my mum, never knew my mom, um, which is bizarre. But yeah, the amazing group of people. So one of the unsealing guilty and it's kind of taken a toll. Um, I'm always surrounded by love and that really, really helps. Um, I'd say probably the main thing is my dad. Um, he, the relationship I have with him was always good. I've always been gotten to Oco. Um, so we've always been quite close, whereas now I can just speak to like a best friend. I can call them up and do like, Hey dad, be appreciate. Laura Duck: 34:19 This is how I still, and he's very good at like I'm seeing it from all sides or sharing his perspective or kind of sharing different ideas, not necessarily telling me how to fill or saying how I'm feeling is wrong. Um, but almost just bringing like another light to how I'm feeling and because of him being my dad when he says certain things I know want him. And my mom went together whilst I was growing up, but they worked together a long time before I was born. Um, they were like childhood sweethearts and kind of um, grew up together and stuff. So I show like, he knows my mom's a when he tells me things and he was like, no, what mom would think or mum would say, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you know what, God, you're right. Like you're so right. Um, so yeah, I just say the people around me who have definitely helped, aside from like the counseling and kind of focusing head on, on the problems, I think just constantly having like soundboards around me when I need to vent or when I need to kind of just voice things. It's sung. It's really, really helped. Kat: 35:28 Oh yeah. Having a support system is crazy. It's the one that like you mentioned that like these people you know, weren't really, didn't know you when your mom passed. And I look on my, I look back on my life and I'm like, wow, this is sad. Um, literally friends with one person that was friends with before my mom passed, other than like my mom's best friend's daughter because we have to like each other. Um, but like my actual like friends, I'm like, okay, this is crazy. But it's nice to have like those people and then people who really just, I mean I've found it not saying that, you know, one group of people have been more helpful than the other, but it's really, really comforting to know that a, there are people who have stuck with you through this entire process. And then there are also people who, you know, you met after this loss happened who still love you for you despite this loss. Because I notice a lot in my life, especially when it comes to dudes, they're like, oh my God, your mom died. Like I'm scared shitless. And I'm like, yeah, like, like you're a dick, like go away. But yeah, when you find that you're like, oh my life is like so good. Definitely. And I think, Laura Duck: 36:52 cause I would say that my boyfriend who doesn't necessarily know what to say to me when I'm having a really bad like grieving day, he doesn't know what to say. I think the fact that he knows maybe not to NSA say anything like they're all in their woods, so he doesn't try to kind of sugar coat it or anything like that. He knows I just need my space. I just need a little bit of a cuddle and a kiss on my head. That's all I need. Unless good enough. Like you don't need people to kind of fill that hole, fill that silence. Like yeah, you don't, you don't need that. They, you just, they need to know. Yeah. Kat: 37:27 And it's important to tell people what you need. I know sometimes what you need, but once you know, it's like, okay, I need x, Y, and z from, you're like, this is not hard. Like if you have to put my mom's anniversary in your phone, if you have to have mother's Day in your phone, if you have to put my mom's freaking birthday on your phone, then okay, so be it. I expect you to just send me a text message and be like, Hey, I'm thinking about you today. That's the period. Like it's not rocket science. People don't seem to get that. But whatever. That's the conversation for another day. Um, but it's, yeah, and that's what mean so much as they literally know what you need. And they do that without you having to consistently tell them. And that's when, you know, you're like, oh my God, like this person is like a lucky charm. Like, Laura Duck: 38:14 okay. Kat: 38:15 And I don't know if that's just my mindset because of like the lost that, you know, you've been through. But do you agree with that? Or maybe I'm just crazy once again. No, Laura Duck: 38:24 no, I agree. I totally agree. And I think when you have such a great loss at a young age, you just value people and value small things 10 times more. Like it's like I'm saying like, I wish I could have gone on a walk with my mom when she wanted to. Now, like if it's the smaller things, if my best friend wants to do something and I'm like, really, I'll do it cause she wants to do that and then that moment it's not what she wants to do. That's what we're gonna do. Um, so I feel like there's just a new found like appreciation for like other people and their happiness and what sites are selling them and then kind of internal nut then circles you. Kat: 39:03 Yeah, that's a really good answer. Um, I guess Kinda like this is in my head now. Switching gears, how, I guess often would you say that like you, like they're like, you have those days, sorry, where your guilt is just like consuming you. I mean, I know it's hard to say it, but I guess if you think about it, do you think those days are expected Laura Duck: 39:26 or, okay. No, I think they can now send me anyway out of the blue. I, I have more good days than bad now and I think that's just because of time. Um, timeline hills, all it does. And like at the time when people say that to me, it's like, Oh yes, like, um, but yeah, no, I, they come out completely out of the blue. Um, I show like I deal with like birthdays, anniversaries, Christmases, things like that. Um, a lot better now. I kind of see them called [inaudible]. Why? Okay. Yeah. Come in, I'm going to fail. When I kind of prepare myself, I still feel that way. It just doesn't come as a shock. Um, but I think the guilt hits you harder. One is out of the blue, um, and it kind of just, yeah, knocks you off your feet and then, or you can do really is like be consumed by it. Um, but I'd say it's few and far between, like the last few weeks from the, I've been quite low in stuff, but last time, which has been really hard to do with actually burst last time is that it's not actually grief related. So I don't have an answer to one stating the wound fading right now and I could somehow relate it back. But really I'm just like clutching at stores. Like, really? That's not really why I'm feeling this or I'm just feeling slaves because I'm having a shit time. Um, Kat: 40:55 yeah, I mean that's just life. So don't be [inaudible] percent. Laura Duck: 40:59 That's, that's what I mean. Like I've always kind of been like, now I feel this way because mom died and then this happened and I've always had like justification for it. Um, yeah, so it's been weird, but that's not really guilt I want say it's guilt weighted right now. Kat: 41:15 It's funny that you mentioned that though because you're definitely the only one, like who would justify your mom's death for acting a certain way and there are mannerisms and like ways that we act that manifested from that loss that you know that are never going to change. But like I had a bad day because I had a bad day. I didn't have a bad day because my fucking mom died. Like I had a bad day and now that makes me miss my mom more. But it's like you feel like for most people their grief is worse when you've had a long day or stressful or whatever. But just like grief being unpredictable, who the heck is going to predict they're going to have a bad day? I mean it's the whole sort of thing. So it's funny that you mentioned that, oh my God, now that you were saying like, oh, it used to piss me off when people say, Oh like time heals all and oh my God, you are so right. Kat: 42:10 But, and I think it's because the way some people mean it, they might have meant it empty and not have and not as a very positive connotation. And I'm like, okay, like time heals all. But we can say that because like you and I have experienced that firsthand. They're just saying that proof. Exactly. I'm like, I feel like you're just saying that shit a spike. That's why it pisses me off. Yeah. But like for people who actually mean well, I'm like, thank you, I appreciate that. And it's also too like for some people it can be time, meaning 20 years for other people it can be time meaning like five years. And I think that's why people get so frustrated if it's been years and years after their loss and their not like better. And people say that then they're like, oh, like I don't believe you because it's been like 10 years. And I'm like, but that's this really terrible. I mean the world has a terrible perspective of time on slate. 100% Laura Duck: 43:11 so maybe an unpopular opinion. Please tell me if you disagree. But I also think there comes a time where not grief becomes a choice. That's not, that's the complete wrong words. But you get to a point where you have all of the knowledge that you need, you understand your grief to a higher extent. So now you have all the tools. It's kind of up to you now. Like you can either sit and feel sorry for yourself for the rest of your life or you can kind of accept that it's happened. Not the whole shit happens like I was when I was 17 but like just accept that like these things do happen. It's not gonna Change. It's gonna always be this way and you can just kind of flip it and try and make it or not a positive thing, but like you can try and carry on with your life. Like you, you do have that choice. Um, like I said, unpopular opinion. Some people think it happened in I'm going to feel shit for the rest of my life. Okay, that's fine. Um, but I do think, yeah, once you spent time, um, what's the word? Like spent time like looking into your grief and dealing with different things. You, yeah. You build up enough resources to kind of make a informed choice, I guess. Kat: 44:30 No, I hundred percent agree. Laura Duck: 44:32 And that's when I tell all these people, I'm like, everything in life is a choice. Like you, at the end of the day, you can choose to be happy and you can choose to wallow in your grief and let it affect you for the rest of your life. Yes. For a certain amount of time. It's completely, I hate the word normal. Um, but it's completely expected for you to not want for you to make the choice to not heal. But eventually you need to do it for yourself and you need to do it for your mom and the people in. Then you've lost. It's like they are happy and like hell do it for yourself. You fucking deserve to be happy like you and through hell and high water. And it's just like people have that tear Porsche effective. But if I could literally be anything into anybody's head, it is that it is a choice and like you healing as 100% a choice, you have to make a choice. Laura Duck: 45:25 Either I need to make the choice to get help because I can't do this on my own or I can do this on my own or I can, I think I can and I can try. And then that's honestly like what made me heal so much through my grief is like one day you just had an epiphany and I was like, okay. And like there's, there's one quote that really helped me, it's like everyday might not be good, but there's something good in every day. And I know it sounds Cliche, but like if you really try to find the good in every day, you realized that like grief is a journey and the outcome is so much better. Like it's worth any type of like pain. I mean that's just my view. And then eventually the more you keep choosing to be happy, it becomes less of a choice and you're just more, it can be to that because people were like, how are you like in a good place? And I'm like, Oh, I just tried and now I just am like a way of life. Yeah. I always say that people ask me similar questions. I'm like, where you kind of like fake it until you make it like you kind of Kat: 46:36 yes, yes. No, it's gotta be to be Laura Duck: 46:39 fun. It's going to be fine. And then one day wake up and it's fine. And you think, yeah, like you kind of positive mental attitude to get yourself in that zone where you just get, yeah, get to a point that you say where it just, it's good. Need to try to make it good or consciously make it good. It just, it, it's fine. Well, I think, um, I went through a stage actually last year, may be able to fall. No, last year, um, I got so like literally obsessed with being positive, being happy, being with Julius Person. Like I was so obsessed with it. I'm not in like a fake way. Like I just genuinely was really everything I did had to be fully like passion and purpose and constantly like so much energy. Um, and if I ever had like a bad day, I'd force myself through it. And as good as that was an is you also do have to allow yourself to have a day where you're just like, do you know what? I feel a bit shit say and that's okay. Um, I'm going to lay in bed all day because that's what I want to do. But tomorrow is a new day. And on the smash, it's modern. So it's like finding that balance between, not constantly, like brainwashing yourself into being or feeling a way that you've done, um, and allowing yourself to stay if you didn't have a bit of a cry or a bad day because you're just exhausted. Kat: 48:07 Oh my God. That's so funny. You hit the nail on the head. I literally, I have that. I also say, um, oh, on the random side note, how did you get in Laura Duck: 48:17 to blogging? I've always written like, even before mum died, before mom was l I just always kind of wrote, had a diary. Um, and then, um, before, must have been before I just used to write about probably like boys. Typical. Yeah. It's typical girly stuff. And then my mom died. I started writing, um, anonymous on, um, what is it? It's not, oh, that's a really old, like social media from like my space. I think it was my space. Oh God. Holding. Yeah. Um, like anonymously, just writing these different like, um, entries. Um, and I just was obsessed with also doing like the different, like decoding or might make you my patients in different. Um, and then, um, and then I went on to just like, yeah, other kind of writing platforms like wordpress and things, um, just as an outlet. Um, and I enjoy writing any way, like I enjoy, um, I've always been quite good with words I guess. Well, so much speaking right. And when I put times but it down on paper as much. Um, but yeah, so I just started writing and then I found that the expectation of say weekly entries or like, um, putting my URL out there or something, it meant that while I was writing was really forced. Um, and I didn't show like a week went by and I didn't show to write. I felt like I wasn't doing what I said to the world I was going to do, if that makes sense in a way. Kat: 50:03 Uh, no. Yeah. And it makes perfect sense. Laura Duck: 50:05 Yeah. And then I started my Instagram page, um, because it's just like in little snippets, little captions like you can like more or less or the pitcher can tell it all. Um, and again, that was anonymous. I didn't have any of my friends and family on that page on the until recently, um, to, cause I felt that way I could be a lot more honest. Um, with what I was saying. Um, cause I know when I used to write like Facebook state, since for example, I've got like my uncle and my Auntie and my dad and my granddad or saying, well I'm saying a lot of the time, my words type towel or a lot more honest than my words out loud. Um, so my wads typed out would sound ready dark. Um, and then they'd call me back. All right. And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. Thanks. You right. You having a good day? Not all. Like that doesn't add out. Like you're niche, you're pouring your heart out, typing but with your words or, okay. Oh, so it kind of hurt them a little bit to see the true side of me, I guess. Um, but yeah, so it's just an outlet. And, um, Instagram allows you to kind of do it in different ways and as and when there's no kind of expectations and it's just kind of bash for people to relate to to. Um, so yeah. Kat: 51:31 Oh my God, it's so funny that you say that. It's very, very important to find her outlet. And I feel like finding your outlet as almost an accident because you know what you like like in life and then you've like randomly right one day or talk one day about your grief and your like, holy hell this is like super comforting and then you should make it a thing and then boom, there you go. You have a blog. Laura Duck: 51:56 Hmm. It's funny though cause I'm just thinking now as you were speaking like it's almost just with the times because if I was me 20 years ago, how would I, or maybe longer ago how would I have chosen to express how I was feeling because it wouldn't be some social media cause that wasn't a thing. So yeah, Kat: 52:19 that's very true. I mean yeah, probably could have written but I might not have been able to write online. Laura Duck: 52:25 This is it. I'm like, that is some sort of, um, what is the word? Like smell satisfaction sounds really wrong. But in terms of like putting my words out there and then someone else, they're not, I'm just so glad you said that. That's 100% like I get you or I'm so glad you said that has made me feel so much better. That's fun. So I say satisfaction. I know it doesn't sound like there's a lot of cognitive, the right word, but there's something in that that kind of makes it more purposeful. Makes it, um, I guess Kat: 53:00 exactly. As long as I'm doing something them right in the world. Laura Duck: 53:02 Yes. 100% where it's like when you write on paper and no one else reads it, it's almost like it's there and that's all it is. It doesn't say, Kat: 53:10 yeah, I mean it serves you, but when you can ask yourself and other people, then why not 100%? Yeah, no, that's so true. So where people, where can people find your blog? And I used to try an Instagram. Laura Duck: 53:25 Yeah. So, um, that's mainly where it all is now. Um, so my Instagram is just my full name, uh, which is Laura and it's such a cool name. Um, so yeah, and it's just like, it started off as like more of like I said by when I was obsessed with positively for if you would go right down to the bottom, it's all very much like, yeah, it looks great, everything's fine. But saying like the last six months, um, maybe a little bit before Christmas and maybe lost like eight months, um, it's become a lot more of like an honest outlet. I say when I'm having a bad day, I say when I'm having a good day, I'll say when I'm having a day that has nothing to do with my mom. Like it doesn't necessarily have to be grief related, which I've learned. Um, and yeah, it's, um, Kat: 54:14 it's all be grief related, even if you don't mean for it to be. Laura Duck: 54:19 Exactly. Yeah. And people read it differently. And I've met like, there are people that I have in my dad's like, just messaging me. I had one girl messaged me the other day and she was so sweet. She's met. She's a psych. Thank you so much. Feel vulnerability for sharing. Like please never stop. And I just thought for me, I'm just posting a picture and throwing a true like a few words and it really like helps people in like this. So encouraging. Yeah. So Nice. Kat: 54:48 It's just like, okay, I feel so much better now. Thank you. I'm glad. I'm really glad I can help people. Um, is there anything else that you want to leave with the listeners? Laura Duck: 54:59 Um, I guess, um, depending on, I'd say like I was saying was time, like how long it's been, I fell and I want anyone who is like two you had done line 10 years down the line. 20 is downline. I want everybody to feel that their feelings are valid and even if like for example, me being a his own, I sometimes feel like, well I'm feeling question be fit in this way anymore. Like I should be over it. But that's not lie. And I just, yeah, whether no matter how long it's been grief is continuous, it's always going to be that whether you feel positively or negatively towards it is always going to be that. And it's just a case of kind of like London to live with it. Um, nodding about yourself, like self-awareness and you'll traits and like everything like that. But yeah, just I want everybody who's listening today to feel valid in what that feeling and I will guys. Kat: 56:00 Wow. Well thank you. Okay. I'm just going to let that nation, but he can think on it and yeah, pretty much go from there. Well thank you so much for being on the show. It was about Laura Duck: 56:11 last name Kat: 56:12 and I love learning about your story. Laura Duck: 56:15 Yeah, no, I feel like conflict in that way being recorded. Like I feel like I'm just chatting to, it's been great. Kat: 56:22 Oh, I'm glad. Kat: 56:24 Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have three favors to ask you. First I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the Life After Losing Mom Community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Finally head to KatBonner.com/podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. [inaudible] Voiceover: 57:11 [inaudible]. This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by writer Kimmy Meyer. Kimmy lost her mom only 15 months after her brother passed away. Losing two loved ones in such a short period understandably sent Kimmy into a state of darkness and despair. Here, she shares her journey of dealing with that feeling of hopelessness and how she learned to find laughter and joy again. What To Listen For Kimmy’s story of losing her brother in a tragic accident followed by her mom passing away in her sleep just over a year later How drinking became Kimmy’s outlet for numbing her pain after losing her mom Her dad’s response to her endless heartbreak and grief Kimmy’s darkest moments when she couldn’t handle living in a world without her mom Her impossible wish to bring her mom back that left her isolated and alone The inspiration her mom’s legacy gave her to stop drinking, turn her life around, and learn to rebuild her life How Kimmy learned the difference between hopelessness and helplessness The importance of connection in Kimmy’s healing process Her views on the dangers of social media for someone who is grieving How Kimmy reacts to other people complaining about their parents or siblings Her most effective forms of therapy and what worked for her in learning to move on How getting out of her comfort zone impacted Kimmy’s healing process Wanting to connect to other people through books and writing her own story with the hope of someone else benefitting from her experience The strategies that led her to learn to laugh, smile, and live again The importance of finding your tribe in working through the grieving process For Kimmy, healing was all about connection, whether to people in a support group, through the written word, or even in finding ways to stay close to her mom and honor her memory after she was gone. Kimmy’s double loss of her brother and mom made living seem impossible but finding the types of therapy that resonated with her brought her back from hopelessness and wanting to join them in death. While alcohol temporarily numbed the pain, today Kimmy has healthy outlets for processing grief that have allowed her to find joy, love, and happiness again. Resources From This Episode: Instagram Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript Kimmy: 00:00 You feel so isolated alone and it's like, oh no, no. You don't have to be like where, where here? Unfortunately as like the club that nobody wants to join, but we're here to hold your hand and we're here to support you. Voiceover: 00:11 In 2013, Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found at KatBonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call at KatBonner.com Kimmy: 00:59 well, I would say ever since I learned about death when I was a very, I want to say it was about six or seven years old when I first understood death. Has a concept. Um, and I remember, I don't remember, I think it might've been around the context of losing my grandfather. Um, and, you know, kind of really trying to understand that and wrapped my brain around what that meant for him to be dead. And then making that leap immediately to being like, oh, that means Sunday mom's gonna die. And I remembered just being very, like, anxious about that for a large part of my childhood. And I'm trying not to focus on it too much because like, you know, there wasn't really gonna do too good, but, um, monopoly remembering, like, not idea, like, and it was always, it was my, my sole thing was on my mom. I mean, I love my brother, I love my father. Um, but it never occurred to me that, well, first of all, it never occurred to me that I lose my brother. And as you know, I, I lost him first. Um, um, and it never really occurred to me that I lose my dad. And I mean, for me it was always focused on my mom because I was such a mommy's girl from the start. Kat: 02:23 Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. Um, awesome. Yeah, it's hard when you know, you're confronted with this and you know what it is, but that still doesn't, you know, make anything easier because no matter what, you still can't prepare yourself for like the death of your mom, even though, you know, eventually like, hey, this is probably going to happen while I'm alive and Kimmy: 02:50 right. Kat: 02:52 Yeah. So that's just interesting. Um, so let's say you were a mama's girl. Um, where was your brother? Sorry. Um, close to your mom as well, or just tell me a little bit more about the dynamic of your relationship with her. Kimmy: 03:10 Sure. Um, well, a little bit of a back story or, because I'm adopted, so was my brother, um, as far as we know, we were never like, you know, related, but we're both adopted from Bogota, Columbia, um, and my parents, um, my mom really always wanted to be a mother. Like ever since she was a young girl, she's like, I want to be a mother someday. Um, and she and my dad, um, we're trying to get pregnant for a while. Um, had to go through fertility treatments and all that. Um, they finally did get pregnant. And then, um, my mom went into premature labor and lost, uh, lost the baby. He lives for day. I'm at six months. He was shooting only pregnant for six months. Um, excuse me. And he was, and then he was born and lived for a day and died. And then the doctors had told them at the time that it really wouldn't be a good idea for my mom's body or the baby that she was going to try to carry to do, to get pregnant again. Kimmy: 04:17 Um, so at that point the doctor was like, you know, if you really want to be parents Sunday, you should probably look into another method like adoption. So my parents, my mom was like, well, that's it. Well, if we're, I need to be a mother, so we, this is how we're going to do, this is how we're going to become parents. Um, so my brother was adopted first. Um, and then, um, and I think secretly other than it was never outright said, but I think secretly my mom really wanted to have a daughter, which I understand. Um, Kat: 04:50 so Kimmy: 04:51 she, um, she did after she, after my brother was about three and a half years old, they adopted me and it was all over at that point. Like again, it was never stated like, Oh, you know, Kimmy are my favorite, like, but I think especially standing, uh, as an adult and sent him like at from a different perspective and looking back on my childhood, I can kind of see like out of that, I was my favorite from my mom. Um, although she loved my brother and, but they had a very, um, clashing dynamic because they were both very stubborn and both very hot headed, um, and wouldn't back down from each other. So they were constantly clashing and I always wanted to be the people pleaser, especially wanting to be like the people, the people pleaser for my mom. Um, especially as I saw her like getting into these types of my brother and everything. Kimmy: 05:50 So I wanted it to be like, oh, okay. Like being mad at him, but there'll be mad at me. I'll follow the roles and the directions and yeah, like being quote unquote perfect daughter for her. Um, because I never wanted her to be mad with me and I always wanted her approval with everything I did. And so, and because of that, I think we became very close because mmm. Cause I was always more last time we saw her in her directions and doing what she told me to do with within reason. Um, so, uh, so we were really close. I mean, she, we bonded over, um, the love of reading and, um, and theater and traveling places. Even at a young age, she would bring me places and he just always had, um, I really, really close connection. Um, more so than I think, you know, I think my brother and her dad achieved some sort of connection, um, after he got through his teenage years. But it was never, I don't think as close as my mom and I, Kat: 06:53 oh my gosh, that is so funny. Um, yeah, I love hearing about that dynamic. Just like your mom's relationship. You're actually, well, sorry, you're in your mom's relationship. I'm sure you're the first person that I've had on this show that's adopted, so like, wow, like they're quite, yeah, I'm like, they're closer to their mom and um, and I'm like, shoot, like, I mean everybody that like I've had on the show, it was like decently close to their mom. I'm sorry. But I was just like, okay. Like, wow, this is great. You have a great relationship. Um, but I mean it just goes to show that obviously blood doesn't make family. That's my purse, your Damian. But obviously no one really asked me about that. Um, so, uh, when I guess, did you realize like, because I know that your son was born after your mom passed, um, and you know, when you lost your brother before your mom, but do you think like the struggle and like your lack of Ho came from like losing your brother first and then your mom? Or was it just like you lost your mom and your, it was like, oh my God, my world is like tumbling down. Does that make sense? Kimmy: 08:15 Yeah. Well, Liz, he, my brother was fighting expected and um, he was, um, riding home on his bicycle and Brooklyn, um, tried to go over a curb and miss judged it, hit his head on the curb, um, not knocked him unconscious. Um, and then he unfortunately was ran over by a, by a truck or are they never caught the person that ultimately tells him. Um, and that was completely blindsided. All of us. I mean, cause it wasn't just, it wasn't something that we ever expected to happen. And you know, when I thought about death all the way leading up into that moment, um, November 18th, 2013, it was always mom is going to die first. Um, because my mom was really sick and, um, she had rheumatoid arthritis. Um, we knew that she was going to have to go for a aortic heart valve replacement. In fact, when my dad, so my dad, my mom and my dad separated, um, late, they were married for 42 years and then, uh, you know, just decided, yeah, we're done. Um, so, uh, Kat: 09:37 fair enough. Kimmy: 09:39 Yeah, like really big, empty nest in terms of both my brother and I were out of the house by that point. Um, so when my dad actually called me at work to give me the news about my brother, um, I was 29 years old at the time. And my brother, um, my dad, I'd rather, I, I never had ever heard him cry, um, ever because he's one of the Stoic, like people that, you know, not really, he's emotional, but he doesn't really show emotional. He's a great guy. I love my dad, but you know, he's, he's just a man. Um, so when I picked up the phone, like the secretary kind of came into the room, my classroom, and I only had a couple of students at the time, um, that was like a before school program. Um, and she came in and she was like, um, can you need to go into the main office? Kimmy: 10:36 Your Dad's on the phone? And I was like, that's so weird. Okay. Like it's eight 30 in the morning. And I asked my dad calling me. Okay. So I like went into the main office in them from main office cleared, which should have been my first indication. And I picked up the phone, right. And I hear my dad, but he's crying, which was like, Whoa, like what is happening? Like this is, I've never heard this before. Um, and my immediate reaction was I knew someone died, but I was like, okay, mom died and it's like bracing myself. And I was like, and the back of my head I was like, wow, I'm surprised that subset. Like they got divorced and my dad was remarried and, but you know, okay, they've been married for 42 years. There's history there, but I'm still surprised that he was crying over the death of my mom because he was really struggling, of course, with delivering the news. Kimmy: 11:24 So I had all this time to like, think about this, build this story in my head that like, okay, mom said, and then he handed it and then he finally was able to get out the words that it was Christopher, my brother who died. And, um, so that was just like what? Um, and I, I screamed like, cause there was, I had two friends that at the time that we're working as, because they had texted me and they were like, are you okay? We just heard you scream. I don't even remember screaming. Like I don't remember any of that. Um, especially just because it was just so unexpected. So then once I brother died, I was trying to rebuild my life and kind of figure out what this was, creases and everything. And I was trying, it's starting to get a little of a foothold on everything. Kimmy: 12:20 Um, and then, uh, 15 months later I got that, I got another phone call that woke me up in the morning. This time it was from my mom's assisted care living place that she was living at, um, to tell me that she had died in her sleep. And I just, after I would say, because I was in the second year of losing my brother and, and then I felt like reset button on everything and then plunged into first year three of losing my mom. It was just, I just lost all hope at that point. And I just, I honestly would just get drunk every single night because I could not handle living in this world without two of my favorite people in the world. My two biggest cheerleaders, like it just was like, okay, like this is, this is absolutely ridiculous. And if I'm not, if I'm, if I'm sitting here sober, I'm like, this is, I just sit there and cry, cry, cry. Um, so then I would just turn to drinking because it was like an easy outlet of like, I need to escape from the factual reality of losing these two people. Yeah. Kat: 13:35 Bless your heart. Yeah. And when I think about, you know, I guess losses before, um, our mom, it's like, okay, if we have our mom to go through this, then it's okay. And then when you have a loss and you have your mom and then you lose your mom and you're like, oh my God, like I don't have this person that I lost before my mom and now I don't have my mom. And like, I mean, yeah, you and your dad can be closed, but there's just so many things that, Kimmy: 14:08 yeah, Kat: 14:10 there's so many things that like, okay, like this is all I got from my mom. What the heck? Kimmy: 14:16 Oh yeah. Kat: 14:18 Yeah. Kimmy: 14:19 Well him by, he, um, I would say this is probably about three weeks after I lost my mom and I, you know, was just obviously sitting in there crying all the time and like not being able to breathe and all, everything. And he sat me down. He was like, are you going to stop crying? No, no. Not Anytime soon. Like you do realize I lost my brother and now my mom, like of not trying, it's not an option. Right. Yeah. Kat: 14:52 That was your dad? Yeah. Oh, bless him. I would've been like, you lost your kid. Like, oh, what are you going to stop crying? Kimmy: 15:02 Well that's the thing. I mean men and women obviously as you do with a lot of things in life. And I know obviously it was so hard that he lost my brother, but after the initial first few months I haven't seen him crisis. So he was like, cause he kind of like, okay, like processes, however he processes that. He has an amazing new wife. I love my step mom and I think she helped him deal with a lot of his grace. But for me like, and like when he was saying that like, you know, you gotta, you know, you've got to pull it together and, and, and stop crying. Like three weeks after my mom died, I was like, ah, if mom was here, she would like you, like, are you serious? And I think my, my step mom I think overheard or whatever, and she came in, she was like, rob, no, like a letter or cry. Like Kat: 15:59 it was a rock reason around here. Um, did your step mom, wow. He never mentioned that. So was she, I'm just curious, was she married to your dad before your mom passed? Kimmy: 16:12 Yes. Um, she actually, they haven't really adorable story. Um, my step mom and my dad, um, dated in there like early twenties, um, then broke up. They both play. They don't remember why they broke up. They broke up Kat: 16:30 and Kimmy: 16:31 had families, had lives, had children. And then like 45 years later, um, stabbing each other through Facebook, reconnected, connected. And, uh, my parents were in the process of getting separated when they reconnected. Um, and then they kind of just picked up where they left off, um, 45 years earlier. And, um, and she's a gem. She's, um, she is absolutely amazing and it has helped like the whole family kind of stay together through the loss and she's actually even integrated. Um, my mother's my mother's side of the family and to our families. So we have holidays together and um, and by my aunt who lives up here, cause my mom's youngest sister eating, um, she's always over there at my dad and mom's house for Thanksgiving, Christmas, birthdays, like all of that. And once like I and I owe that a lot too. My stepmother and just being so open, ears open and loving and um, such a strong woman can be like, you know what, you might be my husband's ex wife family, but we're all family and here are my open arms trio. So she's, she's amazing. Good. Kat: 17:50 That makes me so happy. It's always good to have another woman you know in your life or oh yeah. Plus of them whose life it is. Um, Kimmy: 18:02 sorry. Kat: 18:03 Yeah, that's important. So, okay, cool. So I'm trying to process, so she was married, your dad when your mom passed. Um, did you live in like the same city that your mom did or Kimmy: 18:18 no, I live in New York City area in Queens. Um, yeah, I was living there when she passed, so it feels like such a, such a long time ago. Um, and she was living out on long island. Um, so she, and moved, um, from her big house that she had shared with my dad. Um, they, uh, Shane moved out of the house and into an assisted living unit, um, about four months before her death because, um, she had like a house of like four bedrooms, three bathrooms, like she didn't need all of all of that. Um, and it's hard to upkeep and everything. So as a family, we're all like, you know, why don't you live when you move a little bit closer to Queens, so you're not so far away from me and I can get you a little bit easier because where she was living at with about a two hour drive for me. Um, and then when she moved it was about, uh, probably about 45 minutes. Um, so, and it was nice. I mean, I wish she had longer. She had, you know, spend longer time there for many reasons. Um, [inaudible] she was still alive. It'd be great. It's, uh, it's not bad that bad of a drive. So, um, that, you know, Kat: 19:43 thanks pat. Have a dry, Kimmy: 19:46 yeah, Kat: 19:47 New York City. That sounds super daunting, but Kimmy: 19:53 I love New York City. They're at play. Like I moved that from Ireland for about two years there when I had my son and I was like, nope, we have to go back. I hate it here. So now we're back here in the store. Yeah. Kat: 20:07 Well I mean there's plenty of things to do for sure. Um, so how long would you say, cause it was you lost your brother about two years before you lost your mom. So, um, how old were you when your mom passed? Perchance Kimmy: 20:22 I was 30. Kat: 20:23 30. Okay. So old enough, I guess to under stand, you know, what was happening. It's so sucked. Right. Um, Kimmy: 20:33 understanding what's happening. But yes. Kat: 20:35 Were you already pregnant by chance? Kimmy: 20:37 No. Kat: 20:38 Okay. You were not cool. Kimmy: 20:41 Yeah. So I was, uh, but my mom like, cause so when my mom passed, I had a serious boyfriend at the time. Um, to the point where I should like, okay, so what are you guys getting engaged and getting married and having him? I may be a grandma. Like, it was like, this is when my brother passed. She was like, I want to be a grandma. I want to be grandma wanted me, grandma, you and your boyfriend's seem like you're, you're serious about each other. My boyfriend and I were living together, so she was like, Hey, like tick, tick, tick, tick, tock, tick tock like, hello, when are you giving me my grandkids? Um, and then after my brother passed, she was even more like, okay, like, you know what would be really helpful around here, a baby. Um, but unfortunately it just wasn't meant to be with my boyfriend at the time and everything. And we wound up breaking up. I'm only five months before my mom passed. Um, and uh, so yeah. And how, and then my mom met that on me and grandma by about two years. Kat: 21:47 Okay. That's fair. But I mean, at least she knew that like the thought was like in your head. Um, so she and I had a possibility to look forward to, uh, how long after your mom passed, would you say that like your struggles really started? Like, was it immediate? Did it take you out a process? Like what had happened? Kimmy: 22:09 Yeah, it was immediate because it was just like, so actually January of 2015 I was on vacation seeing my favorite band and Mexico where they were playing on the beach and I was feeling at peace. Um, I was like, you know, like they, they have a song called with you and your dreams, um, the bandhas Hanson and um, I have this song all about like, well, they wrote it for their grandma after the grandmother had passed. Um, and it's about loving the ones that passed and how they're still with you in your heart and your dreams. And it's a beautiful calm. Um, and they had played that on the beach, um, during their concert. And I remember just feeling really at peace and you're like, okay, like my brother passed, been a year and two months at this point, but I'm going to be okay and I will be able to make it through everything. Kimmy: 23:13 And then like literally a month later from that time, my mom died and I was like, oh, that like I'm done. And just kind of was like, that's when I started. I would say that my mom died on February eight. Me Buried her on February 14, which was Valentine's Day was my mom always made so special for us. Like we were always her Valentine's and she, oh, he is like just being really cute about holidays and everything. Um, so burying her on that day, just ridiculous. Um, and then I came back to the city, I would say the day after and then after that I was just pretty much drunk for like a month straight. Kat: 23:56 I Kimmy: 23:57 continue that is like, I was also in Grad school and to become a librarian. But like, luckily all those, like all my professors are really understanding because like, they knew my story that I lost my brother and like actually losing your brothers, but uh, pushed me into this round of Grad school to become a librarian. And then I looked like I just lost my mother. Like I can't produce anything, any kind of work. Like I don't even know what's happening right now. I don't mind the day it is. I don't know who I am. Like, I will catch up on my work or I'll go on like leave or whatever. I just know that I can't do any of this work right now. Um, and they were so understanding and let me catch up in my own time. Um, so then that whole month, like it was just drinking, drinking, drinking, drinking, and, um, then I was in therapy though. Kimmy: 24:50 I mean, I was in grief therapy for when I lost my brother and I just love my therapist. She's amazing. So I continued with that and I'm like, and then when my mom died, obviously I stayed in therapy and she was seeing me on the few hours that I would be sober day and she would be like, hey, like, you know, you can't just, Oh, you can every day. Um, and then I would say like about a month into a, after I lost my mom, I was like, okay, like, right, this is permanent. I WRAL for a few weeks there, I would've loved to join my brother and my mom. I also knew that I didn't want to do that to my dad more than anything because I'd like he doesn't need to lose. Cause at that point that would have been three kids and two, he also lost his, uh, Baby Clinton, um, and uh, from when he was younger. Kimmy: 25:47 Uh, and then losing your brother and he's lost me too. I was just like, he can't do that to him. So I don't, I was actually away cause I feel like traveling for me is huge for my grief. That's something that has really helped me with hope. You have you any hope and everything. So that month anniversary of, um, losing my mom on March a, I was away visiting your friend and Massachusetts and something clicked in my mind of like, okay, when I come back to the city, like I have to stop drinking every single night and checking myself to oblivion and start trying to rebuild the, because I did it with what, after Christopher Path. And I know I need to do this again with, for, for my mom's memory and I know that, you know, my mom would want me to continue my life and, and to be a mom, like that's something they always wanted. Um, and you know, although she's here, like I still want her to be able to have that grandmother status. Um, so I kind of started rebuilding from, from that point after that first month of just seems like blackout drunk. Kat: 26:56 Yeah, that makes total sense. Trust me, you know, only one who's done that. So I am glad that you learned because that's definitely not the answer. Um, but yeah, I think after a while, like after you lose so many people, you're just like, fuck this. Like, I mean, not saying like, what do I have to live for? Because that's like a pretty negative thought, but it's like, all right, like it's pretty easy to lose hope when you keep losing people. All right. What hope do I have that nobody else is going like that? I'm, what hope do I have left that I'm not going to lose somebody else? You know, you just become kind of immune to it. And I think that, I mean, you're definitely not the only person that has struggled with that. Um, like after you lost your mom, that's when you realize you were like, all right. Like was it more of like hopelessness or helplessness or maybe both. Kimmy: 27:59 Yeah, a little bit more hopelessness. Yeah. How? Cause I feel like my mom, like my mom and I talked every day to help you out with all the little problems and the big problem. So it's like anyone, a little things came up, I don't know, just like, oh, I need to like, oh, how long do I put the salmon in the oven for? Kat: 28:28 I didn't, Kimmy: 28:29 can you call her? And I'm like, oh my God. Like, you know, like, stuff like that. And then like, and then the bigger things too, like just everything. Like I just wanted to call her about everything and it's just so hard to not have that person to, to be there for me. Um, and, um, but then, then, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like, well, I started doing a lot of yoga. Um, around that time, um, and a lot of my friends and family obviously knew that I took that I was just completely knocked off my feet with both of those deaths within 15 months of each other. Um, so a lot of, there's a lot of people there that were just there for me, encouraging me. Um, listening to me, listening to my stories, listen to me to just cry, like as like, I feel like it was a lot of, um, in, in when like if a friend loses somebody, like, you know, as a friend, you're like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, I don't, you know, I don't, I, I'm here for you, but I don't know what to say. And it's like, you don't need to say anything. Kat: 29:40 Yes. They're all preach it. Kimmy: 29:42 Yeah. Yeah. I can just sit with me and let me cry. Like I your, cause there's nothing that you can say that will bring my brother or my mother back. Like there's literally nothing and that's all I want. That's the, besides that, just sit with me and like, don't be scared of me being upset. Um, and luckily a lot. I had a lot of amazing friends that were able to do that for me. Um, and, and family and, and my therapist. I love my service. And I also, um, so for the sibling, um, lots of the sibling, there is a group called compassionate friends and um, they have chapters all over the world for parents who've lost their children, but they also have chapters of siblings who lost their siblings as this whole big grief support group. Um, and since I was already doing that for about a a year and some change, um, I met a lot of wonderful people there that unfortunately I've also lost their siblings. Kimmy: 30:42 Um, so then when I then got the reset button and lost my mom, they were huge, huge, huge, like components and giving me hope because they were just there and they're like, hey, you know, we might not have lost their parents, but we've lost, we've lost somebody. So we're here for you. And there were some people that had multiple losses in that. We're like, we get it. Like this multiple last thing is complete shit. Like, but we're here for you. And with that group is especially being able to find laughter. Um, and just the fact that nest of the whole situation, um, really, really helped, um, kind of helped me rebuild the life that I just was like, I don't know how to rebuild this, but at least I have you guys. Kat: 31:29 Exactly. Laughter. Oh my God, it's when people say laughter's the best medicine. I'm like, Oh yeah, I can 100% agree with that. Um, and I loved that you did yoga. Like literally yoga was, I swear to God that's the only way that I was able to heal at that point. Oh really? That's amazing. Well, I'm also like super type a in the sense that like, okay, like I'm a very wound up kind of person anyways, so that was never really able to control my emotions then. That was very much so like stepping out of your comfort zone because that's scary for a lot of people. They don't realize like, oh my God, like I have to be like calm. Like how can I focus? And you're like, okay. Like being able to literally clear your mind and not think about anything. It's like, oh my God. Kat: 32:15 MMM. But yeah, I love how you were like saying the difference between helplessness and hope. Hopeless, helpless and hopelessness. Sorry. Yeah, verbage. Um, because that's definitely, there's a huge difference. Obviously that's important to point out. Um, and it's like, I definitely like wouldn't, you were helpless and she were, you know, already getting help. You already kind of knew your coping strategies, but sure. It was just like another thing to cope and grieve and that's where, you know, the hopelessness came in and the struggle with hope because I mean the girls, your mom, a mom is a girl's best friend and you know, you lose your brother, you have your mom and then you lose your mom. And it's like, all right, like, ah, what am I going to do now? Kids. Right. But yeah, I love that you mentioned too, like about that support group. Kat: 33:15 It's, it's always better I think, at least to meet face to face, you know, if you can, because, well, I feel like too, like maybe when like people first lose a sibling or a parent or have a significant loss, they feel so alone. And then when you talk to people, you're like, oh my God. Like when I first started this podcast and that sort of thing, I was like, oh, like there's not gonna be, you know, that many people that have lost a mom who can relate to this. And my mind is blown. Like, I mean, there's already a ton of people in the world, but like, sure. I guess just not really having a huge friend group. Um, you know, that nothing, I don't have support system, but like if you don't know a ton of people that I've gone through this like a similar loss, then I mean, you just don't realize how many people out there like have been through what you've been through or something very similar. Kat: 34:13 Like you're like, okay, like those are the people that I find myself, you know, turning to when I'm really, really struggling because yeah, like you have friends, but like, you know, like you said, they don't know what to say or do. And especially if I want advice, like if I just want somebody to listen, that's a great, like my friends can listen. But like if you want advice, um, your grief or anything or help, then I feel like that's when you would turn to, you know, that support system. Um, um, have you noticed yourself like doing that too? Or is that just me? Kimmy: 34:51 Yeah. Oh No, I absolutely agree. 100%. I mean, I feel like I had slightly Karen to this support group that I have found. Um, I, so there's also like, um, so within compassionate friends there's also an online Facebook group as well. Um, and I just feel like, cause it's just, it is, like you said, like you said, it was just, it's so reassuring to know that you're not alone. So even if it's not like I necessarily need advisor or help or anything on a situation. But just to be like, you know, like on, um, I don't know, like, oh, Kat: 35:38 this one true. Well, cause I found that the sibling groups have just been a little bit more helpful and I just don't know if it's just because that's how it came in my life was like I lost my, my brother that I lost my mother. And I'm sure there's wonderful support groups online for her that as well. But since I had like kind of found my group of grief people, um, I do tend to go to the siblings, the sibling group, but, um, during national siblings day, um, which is like, I think April 9th, uh, every year I was like, is that a real thing? Yeah. Oh. Kimmy: 36:13 Um, and is actually like, the history of it is, it was started by a bereaved sibling as a way to honor her sibling. But if you look, if you log on to Facebook on that day, everybody is posting their pictures of their siblings and how much they love their siblings and look like everything like of just seemed like, oh, like simply invite. Yay. And for those that are have lost their sibling, that day is such a huge trigger. Um, so it's like just to go on to the sibling group and be able to vent and be like, oh my God, like I can't look at everybody's posts today without like crying because my sibling lane isn't here. Or when friends like not meaning to you and they shouldn't have to restrict themselves, like complain about their sibling or their mother actually. Kat: 37:03 Oh God. Kimmy: 37:04 And then they complained to you and I have some friends that are aware of that. Look, I'm so sorry I shouldn't be complaining to you about my, my brother or my mom because you've lost as, and I'm like, no, it's fine. Like you, I don't want to restrict you and not have you like complain about that. They're humans. Like I get it. Like, you know, you're not always going to get along with your mom and it's fine. Like I want you to be able to be with me but, and be open with me. But it's also nice to have, I grew up to fall back on and be like, oh man. Like, I wish those are my complaints. I wish I could complain about my mom right now for x, y, or z reason. But Kat: 37:39 yeah, social media is, um, um, interesting. I don't really have any words for it. It's great if it's used correctly, but for some people I'm just like, oh my God, like social media is a little bit early going to in this world. I swear to God I will, but I still people, I'm like, if it's mother's Day and you've lost your mom bothers and you've lost her to head siblings, ain't lost a sibling, do not get on social media. Kimmy: 38:05 Sure. Like, you know, it's gonna be hard for you and you can't like deal with it. Kat: 38:09 Obviously you're going to ways, pictures, like that's life. So remove yourself from the situation like that. I mean, I think that's personally common sense, but once again, whatever. But no one asked me. Um, but yeah, and that's why I try to like, and I mean people are going to post pictures about their mom, whatever. That's fine. But like, especially I noticed after I lost my, like I don't post things about like, I'm like, oh, I have the best brother. Like I had the best dad. Like I don't post those kinds of things because I know how it affects other people. Kimmy: 38:46 Okay. Self awareness of, Kat: 38:48 yeah. And I've talked here at we're about like, and I don't really even like post about Madec my mom's passing and my grandma's passing like that much. But like when I feel compelled to, I do because it's more important to talk about [inaudible] death, excuse me, than it is to talk about life. I mean that's just my personal opinion. Like I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy, but like those are things that people don't talk about. So why not talk about it? I mean, uh, Kimmy: 39:12 100% great cause I feel like as a society we just don't talk enough about it. And then, and everybody loses somebody. And then when you do lose somebody that's like one of your core people that you feel so isolated and alone and it's like, oh no, no, you don't have to be like where we are here unfortunately as like the club that nobody wants to join, but we're here to hold your hand and support you and get through all this shit. Like I've just suck. Kat: 39:42 Yeah. Kimmy: 39:43 But not have, you know, your mom to support you, but Kat: 39:48 especially close to. But I mean it's life. So what that I was like, especially if you and your mom are close, it really sucks. Um, yes. I mean it's life. And like when people realize like people be like don't talk about death or aren't really confronted with death the first time they lose somebody to like, what the fuck? Like what am I going to do? And then they talked to other people and they're like, wow, there's people in this world that have lost their mom or that I've lost or siblings that have lost a child. And I'm like, ah, yeah, what do you live in? Or a rock, like, I mean, yeah, but sad, like that's just the way that society is. Yeah. I mean, I could go on and on about that. But would you say like the thing that helped you the most with feeling hopeless was the support group or like what was the catalyst that you know, helped you? Speaker 4: 40:41 MMM, Kimmy: 40:42 yeah. You know, I do think it's like the human connection and connect with others that that had been through, that have walked there to then I like, I remember early in my grief, um, with my brother in particular, looking at people who are like farther along in their grade and being like, okay, they need it. They made it through the first anniversary. They made it through their, their loved one's first birthday without them the first Christmas, the first, you know, all those firsts. Kat: 41:15 [inaudible] now the first hand [inaudible] you make it through that and you're golden. Kimmy: 41:22 Yes. Yeah. And, and just, I remember looking at that and being like, they did it. I can too. And kind of almost using them as like, um, grief role model of some form. Um, and that was able to kind of like pushed me up and they're like, okay. And I feel like now, you know, I'm five and a half years from losing my brother and four years, um, from losing my mom and I feel like, you know, I'm old lot for their log in my grief and I was obviously like the first few weeks of losing both of them. And, um, and I would hope that someone could, you know, benefit from hearing my story and, and feeling like kind of that same gut feeling that I felt in my early three, like, okay, wait, she did it too. She picked herself up in this eagle from those tasks, all this, all this shit and everything. Kimmy: 42:16 And now, you know, is obviously always missing my mom and my brother, but I'm enabled to put together a happy life and I'm able to smile and laugh and, and enjoy life despite that. Um, which is I, I always, I think we touched upon this a little bit, but, um, which is what I'm working on my memoir partly because like I want to have, cause for me books I need, even before I had lost people, books have been my number one love. And um, I, whenever I have like hard things that happen to me, um, I usually run two books and try to find books that can help me get through stuff. So when my parents got divorced, I like one on Amazon and bought all the books for adults too are dealing with their preferential divorce pf, there's not a lot of out there. Kimmy: 43:21 There's some books out there and using when I'm always dealing with adoption stuff like same thing like I read probably like every book out there, there is about being adopted. And then when I went to the reunion, same thing like, cause I've been United with my birth family. Um, I read a lot of books on um, adoptees who have been reunited with their birth families and always felt like, wow, this is still helpful. So I did that. Obviously with the loss of my brother and found all the books developed, feeling the sibling loss, loss of my mother, then all the books and read them. And that journey. A lot of hope too, cause like in this book, there's just so much content of other people that have gone through the same thing and, and everything. Um, and uh, so I feel like I'm like, I kind of want to add my voice to do that for other readers out there that are devour books and, and use books as a former therapy. Um, and as a form of healing. Kat: 44:20 Yeah. That's so funny. I love how books become very comforting. Um, and that sort of regard. Um, it's just kind of like an escape. Like you can like just sit there and read. At least that's how, you know, I looked at it. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. Well I love that you were able to. Hopelessness is definitely, um, I mean a fee grief in general is, but that is like a very strange feeling. You're like, okay, I've literally never felt this way in tone now. So now what, um, what would you say are actually I take that back. What would you like, what advice would you give to someone you know who is struggling with this? Kimmy: 45:13 MMM, Speaker 4: 45:15 yeah. Kimmy: 45:16 Well, honestly, like to not give up hope even when you want to. Um, Speaker 4: 45:24 that sucks. Kimmy: 45:29 Absolutely. Like it's a hot, there's no way to deny that losing somebody that you love is in your mother. Like even if, I mean, honestly, even if you didn't have a close relationship with your mom, it's still like that stuff at a different level because then it's just like, you know, there's regret. Um, and wondering what could have been if there was more of a, you guys did have a relationship or time to reconcile or, or whatever the case may be. Um, so, and there's no way around the fact that it's like, it just totally sucks. Um, but Speaker 4: 46:05 that there's hope Kimmy: 46:10 you can, you can smile again. You can laugh again. You can, you can live again and, um, and just lean on other people. Like, we are a society of, um, you know, he likes to make connections like this walk and we'd like to share stories and everybody has a story like we're sharing. Um, and just kind of find your, your grief, um, decrease tribe of some sort of, of other other women or men who have four in the same boat as you. Um, and that ambitious makes a huge, humongous, humongous difference. And I feel like, you know, I love that you're doing this podcast because I feel like they can't necessarily connect with somebody in person, in their community, um, that there's, you know, podcasts like this. Uh, they can read people from lesson two and, um, and just not feel so alone because you're not like, that's it. That's a huge part of their life is I said, I feel like I heard early on is you're not alone and you know, really aren't, um, you know, you have a lot of people that are here for you. Okay. Kat: 47:23 Yeah. It's important to know too, like, especially somebody who lives in like a rural town or something like that. And like, books are great. Like if they're not for them, because you have to be very in tune, like when you're reading a book and you have to like focus on it and sometimes obviously focusing on the content that is, you know, related to your loss isn't always the easiest thing. So thank you for the encouragement. I appreciate that. And I know a lot of times like, you know, they're those support groups and stuff like that on face book, but sometimes those things, I'm not saying they aren't monitored, but sometimes it can be filled with a lot of like a negative self talk with you know, the members and that might not be very encouraging for other people. So I made it a point like, you know, like there's not going to be any negative self talk on here, like us all going to be inspiring that kind of Juke cope with the struggle, that sort of thing. So it's like, it's literally only giving people hope. Um, at least that's the goal. But yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. Is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners? I know that we kind of like touch on that briefly about, you know, any advice that you would give them. Kimmy: 48:33 But yeah, Kat: 48:37 just know you're not alone. Kimmy: 48:39 Yeah. You're not alone. And that was a humongous filled me with hope as well. Kat: 48:49 Even being outside like nature too. Does that help you? I love that. Like going on a nature walk quick. If you can't travel, like go see the world. I mean, Kimmy: 48:58 yeah, I mean, well yeah, you can go walking in the woods. Is part of that different parts of the world. Kat: 49:04 Was your mom cremated by chance or, because what'd your mom cremated by chance because I noticed that um, like my mom was, and I guess that's why I feel so close to her, like in nature, but maybe I'm just crazy. Oh no, that's right. You said you buried her. Kimmy: 49:20 Yeah, no, he to be varied. Kat: 49:23 Let me, maybe it's just the world. It's like, okay. Like, oh, like there's a sunset, a sunset on a bad day. Like Hey, Kimmy: 49:31 absolutely. Yeah. I feel like, well, my mom loves nature as well, but that also kind of helps me feel connected to her because of her love for nature. But yeah, I think like, yeah, like you said, even like going for a walker, you know, if you can't travel necessarily, like getting out of your head, it's just like, it's like I go places, um, on the, on the hard anniversaries when I can, um, I try to go do something and um, and you suddenly out of the norm because it's just, it just helps, you know, like he said, get out of your hat and everything. Kat: 50:14 Yeah. Especially if you're alone too. That's what I've noticed. That's actually, I literally decided this year, like on mother's Day or my mom's anniversary, like if I try, like, if I can just go somewhere I've never been and I go by, I'll take my dog. Um, but oh my God, I did not realize how helpful it was, especially if there's no other, like, I know it sounds stupid, but you can't control the weather, so. Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so glad to have you. Um, tell me the listener, um, where can the listeners find like more of your writing? Kimmy: 50:54 Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so right now, um, I am working on my first shop of my memoir, so super, super early stages. Um, so, and I am documenting that on Instagram and my Instagram handle is writing Wednesdays. Um, so Kat: 51:12 that's why Wednesdays, Kimmy: 51:15 um, well two reasons. One I love alliteration is one of my favorite things. Kat: 51:21 Fair enough. Kimmy: 51:23 The second reason really is, um, so I am, I'm a single mom and I have been able to for the past, I would say formal three or four months. Um, I, I've gotten a babysitter on Wednesdays and I get, and that, that is my dedicated time to work on my memoir that I wound up doing a lot of my writing on Wednesdays. Kat: 51:48 Oh, that's so cute. Kimmy: 51:49 Oh yeah. That's it. That's where it comes from right now. Kat: 51:52 It wasn't super money. Oh yeah. It was so great to have you on. I hope you enjoyed it. Kimmy: 51:58 Yes, I did. Thank you so much for having me. I so enjoyed it. Kat: 52:01 You're listening to Life After Losing Mom with me, Kat Bonner. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discovered the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode of life after losing mom. Subscribe today. More information can be found at KatBonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Speaker 6: 52:34 [inaudible] Voiceover: 52:54 this has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. We’re joined by Intuitive Grief Guide and fellow podcast host, Shelby Forsythia, who shares her story of losing her mom to cancer while they were going through a rough patch in their relationship. With things left unresolved, grief has not been an easy process for Shelby, but she’s here to share her journey with us. What To Listen For The argument that changed Shelby’s life forever What Shelby calls her “four years of hell” The story of Shelby’s mom’s battle with breast cancer and how it went into remission, only to tragically return Shelby’s self-identification as gender non-conforming nonbinary and how it affected her relationship with her mom Shelby’s bitterness over how her own grieving process differed from the rest of her family How she deals with the big conversations that she’ll never get to have with her mom How Shelby receives her mom’s energy through dreams and communicates with her through life’s experiences, and how she learned to put the work in to be able to recognize these moments What her grief triggers are and how she copes with them What Shelby calls “lightning bolt moments” and how they’ve changed her life Her analogy of grief being like an angry wolf caged in a dark basement and how she works with it How to manifest love for yourself when you lose someone who used to provide love for you How a phone call with God allowed her to surrender to her grief How her family members honor her mom’s memory on a regular basis Shelby’s realization that death doesn’t stop the relationship How her podcast and Grief Growers Garden Facebook group has given her a voice on a bigger platform where she can communicate with others to gain insight into loss. Shelby’s story is unique in how the events unfolded around her mom’s death and their argument before she died. No matter the circumstances, she’s learned that losing your mom is heartbreaking for everyone, but with things left unsaid and issues left unresolved, it can get even messier. Her work as a grief coach and podcast host gives her the ability to connect with others on a broader level and to honor her mom’s memories in ways she had never anticipated when she was first blindsided by her loss. As Shelby says, “because even through grief we are growing,” and her personal story shows us how to realize our own growth in the face of our own loss. Resources From This Episode: This is where you put the list of the guest links and links to any other resources (books, websites, etc.) mentioned on the show. They need to be in this exact formatting: Follow Shelby: ShelbyForsythia.com Grief Growers Garden Facebook Group Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript Shelby: 00:00:00 I wish someone would've told me while I was grieving is like, hey, even if you don't recognize it, you're growing Kat: 00:00:08 Welcome to life after losing mom with me, Kat Bonner on this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their mom and discovered the exact coping strategies that you need to get through the day and being the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode of life after losing mom. Subscribe today. More information can be found at katbonner.com/podcast. And if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. I just want to apologize in advance for the choppiness of this episode. I have had my fair share of technical difficulties, so yeah, I apologize. And thankfully my podcast manager is the best and hopefully thrown episode together and it sound somewhat decent. Ladies, we have a very special yes on the show today. A fellow at Greif-caster, and she is also from North Carolina. I would like to welcome a Shelby Forsythia, Shelby: 00:01:17 Dah, Dah, Dah. I'm like, do my own intro music. Yes. Uh, born and raised in North Carolina. Everyone appear in Chicago asks me why I don't have an accent. And I always throw in some joke about how coming from the south and now living in the Midwest, they kind of just even each other out. So I don't have an accent only when I'm on the phone. Every now and then we'll I dip into, hi, this is Shelby and you can really tell like where I'm from. Um, which is amazing. I'm so excited to have you here, especially because, uh, I've had you cat over on my show coming back, conversations on life after loss and I just love spreading out in the podcast sphere and seeing more people talking about grief in the form of podcasts because there's so much more approachable to grieving people, I think, than books because books you have to like sit down and focus and concentrate on. Whereas a podcast can just be on in the background and if you tune in, great, you might hear somebody's story, you might hear a tool or something that resonates with you, um, or a a book. Where's the book? You kind of have to be paying attention or you miss the content. Uh, so I'm excited to be here and on this format with you today. Kat: 00:02:29 Shelby, if you don't mind starting the show off with a little bit about the story of how you lost your mom. Shelby: 00:02:38 Yeah, that's perfect. Um, my last story kind of begins pre actual loss. Um, I always like to tell people I had this really idyllic childhood. I didn't have a lot of exposure to death or dying. My, you know, childhood was not dramatic. My parents were not divorced, like no major upheaval really happened. It was kind of, um, like a typical white suburban piano lessons, you know, buy the uniforms for marching band kind of household. Like that's just the format. A family of four, like how, how I was raised and then church on the weekends. Um, and then when, when crap hits the fan, it like really hit the fan. So the last story that I tell is about what I have affectionately referred to as the four years of hell. And this is when I went off to college. And what kind of kickstarted this instability or season of lost in my life was, uh, first my dad lost his job of 19 years and this is, um, in 2010 when a lot of layoffs and things were still happening from the great recession. Shelby: 00:03:55 And so it was kind of a bit of a shock to our family, but an upheaval and stability, something I had never seen before. So all of a sudden kind of we stopped eating out, we talked about money more, there was more stress in the household, there are a lot more, um, kind of like whispered conversations or things behind closed doors and there's kind of this sense that we were generally unstable. Um, and then pretty shortly after that, my sister and I witnessed my dad having like a low grade seizure. I'm not sure if this is the medical term for it. Um, but we had finished watching a movie in the living room and like making popcorn and stuff and we were all getting ready to go to bed and he was looking into one of those like, um, plastic tumblers that you can put like ice strengths are like iced tea or something and, and carry it in your car. Shelby: 00:04:40 And he was talking about seeing my great grandfather, his grandfather, and like some relatives that he had farmed cotton with in Tennessee is a boy. And my sister and I were looking at him, we thought he was joking at first, but he was really insistent in looking into this plastic cup. He's like, why don't you see them? They're standing right there. And so that was this hallucinatory s like low grade seizures, some kind of like brain slippage activity that was happening. And it scared us. And I was, uh, I believe I was 18 or 19 at the time and my sister's about two years younger and we both went upstairs and I walked over to her bedroom and I was like, that was kind of weird, wasn't it? And she said, yeah. And so we went back downstairs and we told my mom what had happened in my dad was like, oh, I'm just tired. Shelby: 00:05:26 I've been having headaches for awhile. Um, kind of these other excuses came up. Uh, but then a few months later while I was in school and he experienced, I believe he experienced a full blown seizure. Something else happened that got him admitted to the hospital. And I just remember getting a phone call at the women's center where I volunteered in college go app state, um, where I got a phone call and they said, we scanned your dad's head. And he has two brain aneurysms and they're symmetrical one on either side of his brain. And when they put them through the machine, I don't know if it was a CT scanner and Mri, something, an imaging test. Um, they were like some of the biggest recorded aneurysms. They're like, we don't know why you're alive right now. Duke University, it was like, we don't know why you're alive and do, is a pretty reputable hospital in the south. Shelby: 00:06:17 And, and that was absolutely terrifying. So not only was this like instability of job loss happening, it was like your dad might be dying and there was this suspense kind of all of a sudden hanging in the air of this could happen at any moment because of an aneurysm ruptures, like more or less, it's game over. And so I was living with this perpetual anxiety while I was in school. While I was doing my first semester while I was taking classes and every single time the phone rang and it was a member of my family, I was like, oh my God, he's dead. And this was my very first exposure from my shelter, childhood to living with anxiety and like mortality awareness swirling around. And within the next two years or so, he had surgeries for both of his aneurysms. They did one and then waited for it to heal and then flipped him over to the other side and did the other one, waited for that to heal. Shelby: 00:07:05 And I watched my father become a different person. It, um, he became, so, I mean, they're digging around in your brain, so how could you not be? But he became somebody who could no longer drive, who couldn't remember who members of his family were, who became angry, who was really tired, like, and traditions that we have. Things like thanksgiving, things like Christmas, things like holidays all became very drastically different. And then of course there's that community support that comes with grief to have meal trains and casseroles and Carpool and all this other stuff where the community rallies around you. But at the same time you're like, I really love you guys, but I just wish everything would come back to normal. Um, and that was our reality for probably about the first two years of the four years of hell. Uh, and then in 2012 we thought we were out of the woods. Shelby: 00:07:51 My Dad had gotten an all clear from his doctors with, you know, sustain medications for the rest of his life. Please don't work up on roofs or anything on high buildings or Tom Machinery or anything like that. Again. Um, but you've been cleared. You're healed, you're ready to go. The meal train stopped. The car pools stopped. The prayer circles stopped for, you know, for good reason. Um, and then in the summer of 2012, my mom called a family meeting, which in our family was never a good thing and she got test results back from a mammogram that detected that she had breast cancer. And so immediately, like all over again, we were flung into this world of hospitals and medical testing and you know, all this equipment and stuff being in the house and carpools and meal trains and prayer circles and all of this stuff just happening again and again. Shelby: 00:08:40 And I was like, am I living in the twilight zone? It was the craziest thing. And we thought we were out of the woods, like we thought we were done and then we weren't, we were just getting started. And so she went on this journey of receiving chemo and, and, um, radiation and losing her hair and getting neuropathy in her fingers and toes. And, and she also became a different person. So within the course of these four years, I watched both of my parents who for all intents and purposes, we're very stable people throughout the course of my childhood become two totally different people as a result of what they had gone through. And um, about a year later in 2013, she went into remission and was declared cancer free. And the actual loss story that I experienced happened in November of 2013 when what doctors thought was advanced pneumonia or allergies or just low immunity ended up being my mom's breast cancer returned, uh, metastasized into her lungs in her chest and this was something after one surgery and they're like, we could do preventative stuff but nothing anymore. Shelby: 00:09:39 We'll cure or fix or fend off this inevitable reality that she's going to die from this cancer. And it absolutely like getting that knowledge and continuing to go to college throughout the course of this and coming home for winter finals and my mom being like, I've decided not to have any more surgeries. I've decided to die to participate in this dying process and call hospice in and, and do that whole thing. Like, I cannot convey into words still almost six years later, like how far open this blew my world. And she kind of made this declaration to us on December 19th and we were like, okay. And hospice came in and started setting things up and we had spoken to her doctors and kind of gotten word and we thought like all of us thought everyone thought we were going to have weeks to months, maybe if we were lucky. Shelby: 00:10:33 And she died in a week. She died the day after Christmas 2013. And like it, when I say the entire bottom fell out from my world, like there was just no way to explain how life shattering. And Megan Devine, she's an author who wrote, it's okay that you're not okay. She used this, uses this word, uh, universe rearranging like literally my mother's death and rearranged everything I knew to be true about life in a split second. And that remains true, uh, to this day. And that loss at the age of 21 is really, I mean, it's the worst thing that has ever happened to me and has also been the catalyst for my life in the aftermath. Kat: 00:11:25 How was it like mentally preparing yourself for the reality that your mom was going to die, but she seemed to just get sick really fast and you thought you had more time? Like how did you handle that? I mean, whether you're your mom's death is expected or unexpected. Like one person cannot train their mind to think like, hey, my mom's gonna die. Like, was there one thing that helped you with this realization knowing that this cancer is going to take your mom's life because I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, at 21 years old, I'm like, how, Shelby: 00:12:12 how in the world am I supposed to prepare for the death of my mother at 21? Um, and, uh, the only thing that really kind of helped, and I'll give Kudos to hospice for this, if anyone's considering hospice care, get it sooner rather than later because they were really communicative about what death would look like. They're like, usually the order of things is, you know, they, they stopped being mobile and so they stay in their bed and her eyes will close and so she will no longer be able to see, like she won't go blind, but she won't be able to open her eyes anymore. The last thing to go was her hearing. So keep talking to her, keep singing to her, keep sharing memories and things like that because up until the moment she dies, she'll be able to hear you. And it was really neat too to kind of hear from them, these are the ways in which it will happen. Shelby: 00:13:00 So at least we knew what to look for, um, in her dying process. But that, that did not make it an easier, um, and also to some kind of weird twist of fate that happened as well. When she decided she made this decision, she's like, I'm not going to have any more surgeries to try and hold this off because it's not. The doctor said that there's nothing more they can do. Um, she knew exactly the type of pain that she was going to be leaving my sister and I and because her mom died when she was 22. And so for her to know like with eyes wide open exactly what she was about to do to her children, the life that she had lift, not having a mother when she became a mother and, and into her, you know, midlife and things like that, she's like, I know exactly where I'm about to put you. And it absolutely took her to pieces and like how do you prepare your kids for that other than saying, I'm sorry that I'm about to do this to you with my deaf. Um, yeah, it, it was, it was wild to walk up to that and still fascinates me that that's something that she would think of even as she, as the dying person was who all the focus was on was that her focus was still kind of on, um, on her babies, on her kids. Kat: 00:14:17 Wow. I'm just going to say, first of all that your mom is a great mom to think about you and your sister and how this is going to affect you and to like literally think about her baby as while she is dying. I don't know if I can ever do that, but yeah, that just blows my mind. Like how does it make you feel knowing that your mom thought about you and your sister in the midst of this and you know, y'all were in the middle of a fight before she passed. How does that make you feel? Shelby: 00:14:52 You know, what do you think about all of that? Um, I think part of it because of my age, but just the fact that there were so many things left unresolved. Like we, I had a guest on, on coming back, uh, I think a couple of months ago. Her name was rabbi and Brenner and she studies Jewish texts and uh, makes them relevant to today's audiences. And she has a book called morning and Mitzvah and she has this phrase that she says that another great podcast or reminded me of and sent to me. And it's that everyone dies in the middle of a conversation. And I don't think anybody exists in the world who feels like they have it all wrapped up. When somebody dies, there's always something that's left unsaid, whether it's I'm sorry or I forgive you, or thank you, or I wish you would have, or I hope you could see, or I want you to be here for x, y, z. Shelby: 00:15:45 There's some kind of like communication that's not said because you just can't, um, you can't get everything said and done before somebody dies. It's impossible. And the biggest pain point for me still is that I came out to my family in 2010 as a woman who did not discriminate based on sex, genitals, gender, anything like that on who I loved. So I have dated Trans People. I have dated men, I have dated women. I've Jadah, gender nonconforming nonbinary, I mean across the spectrum of, of human gender and sexuality. And that's not something that sat well with my family. I was raised not very strict Christian per se, but like nondenominational Christian in a Christian household. Um, with that kind of box rigidity around it. And I think my mom died believing genuinely, like very, very truly. And I've come to see this in her that I was going to hell and I would not spend eternity with the rest of my family. Shelby: 00:16:52 And she saw my sexuality as a phase or a decision or a choice, um, where I did not. And, and she and I were in the middle of fight when she died, essentially. We still have not made peace with that. And actually about a month or two before she died, we had our last big fight in a mall and it was about who I was going to marry because I was dating a woman at the time. Uh, and we had talked about getting married after college and I was looking kind of offhandedly, like with no commitment at all, but I was looking at wedding dresses and she just, she just kind of flatly said, you know, if you do marry the girl you're dating right now, your father and I won't be there. And in one sentence she just took me down to such a low level. Shelby: 00:17:34 And, and I engaged. And so I was hurling Bible verses at her, like, why don't you believe in the mix threads in the shell fish thing, but you do believe in the gay thing. And that's not even really a gay thing. It was about not assaulting angels who were visiting the village and like all this other, like I was coming at it with logic and anger and she was coming at it with religion and fear. And we had not learned how to see eye to eye with each other before she died. And I don't doubt now that she loved me, but I think when she died I was like, she never really saw all of who I was. So how could she possibly love me? And that was the biggest, yeah, the biggest pain point that remained after her death. And I felt really bitter because I feel like a lot of my family just got to be sad when she died, like angry at her death, but then sad that she died and I was angry that she died. Shelby: 00:18:29 But I was also angry that we were fighting when she died. Um, and it's still the hardest thing because it's a conversation that she and I will never get to have in person. We've gotten to have it a little bit kind of, and this is a great area through dreams and through me just feeling like I feel her energy through the six years that she's been gone and through conversations with her sisters and my dad and my sister and you know, all people who support me and the people that I date. But um, but it's still really hard and things like as we're entering into June and like pride month is coming up, but that's really hard for me, um, to, to celebrate something that still wasn't fully seen by somebody I really, really love. And even dating is like tricky now cause I look at my, my partners that I date as I date them and I'm like, when my mom, if liked you and I can't just ask her, I can't pick up the phone and ask her. Shelby: 00:19:19 And I wouldn't know even now if she would have come around or would want to meet them. And so it's just always this gray area. And then often the distance, like way far somewhere are things like marriage and moving in with a partner and you know, growing old with somebody, I'm like, man, like I'm almost like, damn, I wish my mom could see this, uh, or, or kind of would offer me some reassurance that I've chosen well or that she's still here, that she cares or has been a part of this or, um, just like recognizes the way in which I love and express love. So yeah, that's been the hardest part by far. And what really helps is helps as much as it can, cause I won't say it helps entirely but helps as much as it can, is hearing stories from other people in the LGBT like party who are struggling with this. Shelby: 00:20:11 So people who came out to their parents and then one of them died or, um, came out to a family member and they fought about it and then they're estranged from each other or um, came out to a partner even in a divorce happened. And that's still unresolved in some way. So hearing that there are other stories like this that exist in the world is really comforting. But then also just hearing stories of what it's like to be queer in general because it is, you know, we have a lot of luxuries in the United States that for the most part as somebody who is queer and white and straight presenting, I'm not killed for my sexuality or gender presentation. Um, and we, I have that kind of good in America. Um, other countries I would've been dead already for who I love. Um, but it's still just so powerful to hear stories of people who are struggling with this no matter where they are. Kat: 00:21:06 Wow. You are brave. I would at first off like to say, but how did you like cope with knowing that your sister and your dad got to just be angry that she died and you were angry that your mom passed and that y'all were still in a fight? I mean, I can't even imagine that like was there, you know, one certain thing that really helped you cope with that realization knowing that this is how things were left off? Like, how did you, you know, get through that? Because it's definitely, I'm sure it's definitely not easy knowing that like this is the last thing that I said to you. Like I don't even remember, you know, if I said I love you to my mom before she passed. So did you maybe try to resolve things, I guess with her before she passed? I don't know if that was on your mind. Kat: 00:22:09 Sorry, I feel like I'm rambling at this point. But yeah. Like was that on your mind knowing that she was gonna pass and that there were still so many things unresolved? Like did you maybe try to resolve them as much as you could? Like was that even on your radar? Um, yeah. I would love to hear your opinion on that. Like, was that ever in the back of your mind that, that your mom didn't love you before she died? Like did you question that because she didn't believe what you believe and she wasn't accepting of who you loved. It's like, okay, I know my mom loves me, but did she do anything to try to show you that despite your differences in beliefs? Shelby: 00:23:05 Yeah. Um, I can't, I think it goes back to this, everybody dies in the middle of the conversation thing, but in a perfect world we would know how much we're loved and how much others love us before their deaths. And there would be some magical cosmic way to like continue that reassurance even after their bodies are no longer alive on the planet because what, what happened when her physical body was gone as I like, my brain made this weird connection of now like, oh all the love must be gone now too. Like if her physical body is not around anymore, her love must not be around either. And that connection was severed for a while despite I, despite weird freaky deaky things like I did a whole episode on the show about the [inaudible] intuitive in the supernatural, in the unexplainable things that happen after loss. Shelby: 00:23:53 So, like after my mom died, our electric tea kettle in the kitchen would turn itself on and she was the only person in the house that would use it. And so that was really funny to us are like lights would go on and off and I broke a ton of light bulbs after she died. Like they blew once I put them in the lamp and I put in another one and that would blow too. I was like, what the hell is going on here? Um, and so like I believed in my own ways and my family believed too that she was showing up, but it's hard to, to like manifest love for ourselves when we been receiving it from another human for so long who is now dead. And so to believe that their love still exists for us, even though they're no longer physically on the planet and to like conjure that up when previously all we had to do is receive it. Shelby: 00:24:40 Dude, man, that's really hard. And especially if it's something related to, to like my struggle, like with something difficult where I didn't really feel all that loved when she died. I'm like, not only do I have to remember that I was loved and her death, I have to, to feel that love, edit an intensity as if she didn't die in the middle of a fight. And so it's like I have to figure out how to, I don't know, produced like this electrical current that I can actually feel in real life. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but, um, but it's like all of a sudden the responsibility to remind us that we're loved, it's on us. It shifts to us after someone we love dies because they're no longer here to say it or do it or, or hug us or, um, say it to our faces. Shelby: 00:25:24 Yeah, you're exactly right. And I think it's important to point out, like with grief comes love because there's like this thing, it's like a verbiage just says, you know, grief is the price that we pay for love. So how did you like, I guess, cope with, you know, you and your mom being in a fight in the midst of her leaving this earth? Like, you know, it I'm sure made you question her love for you to a certain extent. Like, was there one Aha moment where you just kind of realize that, okay, this is it. This is how I'm gonna deal with me and my mom being in a fight in the midst of her passing? Um, I like that, that comparison because I did have kind of an oh my God moment. Uh, it's, it's a combination. So there's like, there's like a soup that was made of like this ingredient and that ingredient. Shelby: 00:26:29 And then there's like a base and then you put in the meats and stuff. So like, it's, it's been a coming back as a process. It's not, um, not a lightning bolt, but I think there are these lightning bolt moments that happened that like up level you really quickly. Um, in the course of, I don't know if I'd call it recovery, I'll just keep calling it coming back. Um, one of the very first things I remember was a conversation with my aunt and my aunt is a, she has her master's in spirituality and as a medium or an intuitive and she doesn't necessarily like have conversations with a debt, like not like a Tlc, the TV show. Um, but she's really good at like holding space and bringing in energy and like asking these types of questions that really make you think about your belief systems essentially. Shelby: 00:27:20 She's really good at being like a spiritual editor for your story. And if anyone wants to reach out to her, email me, Shelby Shelby for cynthia.com and I'll connect you because she's over in California and she loves working with people in person, but she was my mom's sister and she and I would have conversations on the phone probably like once or twice or three times or four times a month after my mom died because I could not wrap my head around her loss. I just couldn't do it. And I, I remember too that if my mom lost her mom when she was 22, my aunt, uh, probably would have been like 18, 17 or 18 when that happened. And so that kind of storyline lives in her too. And so she knew my mom and could express her and channel her and sessions in ways that I could not, and it was really fascinating, but one day when we were having a conversation, she's like, Shelby, I think this goes beyond your mom. Shelby: 00:28:08 I think you need to have a conversation with God. And I was like, Oh shit. Like I was not looking forward to this. I was mad at God. I couldn't stand him. I was like, how dare you? And like what was happening in my grief was that because of the way everything played out, I was more than happy to see myself as a victim of circumstances. I was more than happy to wallow in self pity and be pissed and lash out. And I have this analogy that I use for my grave called the wolf in the basement. And it's kind of like this visual of I have captured a wild wolf who is very hungry, who was wounded, who is snarling and mad and disconnected from their pack. And I've put it in a cage and I put it in the basement of my house, a very dark basement, uh, with the doors are closed and the cage is tiny and there's no lights on and I'm giving it no food at all. Shelby: 00:29:02 And this is what a lot of people do with their grief. I think as they make it something that they put on the lower levels of the house and they try not to engage with it and they're kind of afraid of it at some level. I was very afraid of my grief. Like I would, uh, allegorically walk up to the basement door and like, here are the cage shaking and be like, oh no, I'm not touching that today. But then what would happen is I would hear these snarls in these house of pain from the basement. I'm like, oh, that's my grief. Like that's my grief. And then when my grief would come out, it would be explosive. It would be huge. Like I was practically biting my own arm off and my grief, and so I was mad. I was not ready to talk to God. Shelby: 00:29:38 And so my aunt's like, I'm just going to bring God into the space and you say you need to say to him, and this is not me, that you're speaking to this as God and you just have your conversation. I was like, all right, we're just going to play this game and see how this goes. Um, and I let him have it. I ranted at God probably for like five minutes, 10 minutes. I don't know how long I went on, but I was sobbing. I was like, my aunt was in California, I was in Chicago. We were connected by a phone line, but I was like pounding the bed. I had a trunk at the foot of it. I was hitting all over that. I was really angry. I was screaming, I was crying. And then my aunt came back into the space. When I was done, I was like heaving. I was like sobbing and heaving and at the end of it she's like, I want to pretend right now that your God, what would you say to you? And the only phrase that came to my brain, I shit, you know it was, oh baby, I wish you'd just let me hold to you. Shelby: 00:30:30 And it was this moment of collapse. Like I literally felt my shoulders go down in my whole body, go limp and I'm like, Oh my God, here I am so pissed and so angry and trying to like hit at anything that seems solid when all God, my mother, the universe, whatever forced that is larger than me, literally just wants to hold me and support me in whatever I'm going through. Like nothing in the world is trying to make me a victim. Nothing about my life has ever had the intention of making me a victim. It's a story. It's a story that I was telling myself about my loss in my grief and in that moment it broke and like that was probably the very first lightning bolt that happened in relation to the loss of my mom. My relationship with my sexuality kind of a little bit. Shelby: 00:31:28 Also my relationship with faith in God, although that's still being worked on, that's still under construction for lack of better phrasing, but that was like one of those very first moments. And then to your point of you know, looking for this love in, in my dad and my sister and other relatives and things like that. Yeah, they have come around in their own ways and they have been able to support me in the loss of my mom and I've been able to support them in the ways that I've been able to and my sister and my dad and I actually have like weekly phone dates. That's something that I cultivated probably about two or three years after my mom died. And so now we talk at the same time every single week and whether or not we really have anything to say. It's just like a life update and ways we still stay in touch and especially around holidays, which have historically been hard for our families at the times when crabs going on, whether it's my dad's brain surgeries happened around Thanksgiving and new years and my mom died around Christmas. Shelby: 00:32:20 Like we just get to be present for each other and interested in each other's lives and the ways that my mom would have been. And so in those ways, even though we've all moved forward with grief in tow, um, we still get to kind of honor her memory and honor her wish for consistent family checkins and just to know how we're all doing all the time that way too. Um, and then to get into like a larger picture like soup ingredients of coming back. So, so much of what learned about grief and loss and about myself as a grieving person, again, came from the stories of other people. And this goes far beyond the LGBT spectrum. This goes into books, into memoirs, into, mmm. Even like other podcasts especially, I know I said at the beginning, podcasts are great and really accessible for grievers because you just listen, you don't have to like read anything with your eyeballs and your brain hurts a lot when you're grieving. Shelby: 00:33:18 And so to just get to absorb through audio instead of focus on something, it was really helpful. Um, yeah, so I, it's really been a combination of a great deal of things, but that first lightning bolt moment on the phone with my aunt slash God was really what tipped me from this place. I said this on another podcast, uh, interview I believe the podcast is called. Yeah, thank you. Heartbreak. Um, another interview I did over there, I tipped from this point of helplessness in just surrender and it's a very, very fine line between helplessness and surrender. I'm just going to let those words thinking of for a minute and let them resonate with me. Um, yeah. First of all, I think it's really cool that your aunt is a medium. I've never been to one, but shoot, I guess I should try it. Kat: 00:34:17 Now. Going back to the conversation that you had with your aunt on the phone, um, and that phrase that came to your mind like, honey, let me just hold you, or something like that. Do you think that that was God saying that to you or that that was like your mom saying that to you through God? Um, I would definitely be interesting to see what you think about that because it's like, oh, if my mom said this, then I know that like, she really loved me no matter what, Shelby: 00:34:54 what, and no matter how we left, you know, her life and no matter how we left things off before she left this world, like Abbott, that was a really nice realization. If it was, um, I don't know. I don't think you're wrong at all. I think, um, I think it's hard to distinguish. It's hard to draw the line between where does my mom start and God begin because for as much as, um, for as much as I don't necessarily adhere to like a Christian faith anymore, I believe this is my personal belief. Anybody who's listening, you have the right to your story. And your experience as well. Um, what our loved ones died. They join the realm of the spiritual. And so, um, I don't, I don't really know. I believe that the voice that was speaking to me in that moment was God, like the, the Almighty universe, the life force that keeps everything going, the thing that wants to support and hold me and everything that is alive in the world and like keep it safe and close and, and creative and loved and wonderful. Shelby: 00:36:05 Um, but I do believe also that the message was universal. Like, Oh yeah, that could totally be applied to my mom. Um, and she came through and other and other readings and other experiences with my aunt as well, um, with her own messages and she's, she's found her own way of communicating with me over the years as well. So I know it's her when she shows up, I'm like, we've developed, we've had to relearn how to communicate with each other, which is like the weirdest thing. But kind of similar to how we have to learn to supply our own love. When somebody we love dies. It's like we have to relearn how to communicate with loved ones after they die because death doesn't stop our relationship. It just like changes the language that you have to speak in with the person who dies. And so my mom, when she shows up, she was lefthanded and she was the only person in my family who was, she shows up now on the left side of my body, like in my shoulder and my arm. Shelby: 00:36:55 I'm like, oh, there you are. Um, or my sister and I will find money a lot pennies. And my mom was a person who would always pick up pennies off the sidewalks. Some people are like, oh no, that's trash or garbage or whatever it is. And she always valued like these little lucky penny moments. Um, and so we see her a lot through those. I see her a lot in birds and music. And then sometimes just the way that other people will tell a joke or we'll get a kick out of their own sense of humor, I'm like, oh my mom would like that. Or she would really like you. And seeing her and those spaces too. And then I actually just wrote an article a bit ago about how my biggest trigger for my own grief is my own face because the older I get, the more I start to look like my mom and like my sister and I are her spitting image and it's wild. Shelby: 00:37:39 But every single time I pass by a mirror I think it's my mom and um, it's incredible just like the way is that she continues to show up and I think this is, this is for two reasons. I'm not lucky. I don't get these magical symbols because I'm special or because I am a great worker or whatever. I think I'm, I've put in the work to look for them. I think you have as much of a relationship with your person who died as you choose to have a, and I've chosen to really go full bore to the point of like straining my eyeballs to look for pennies on the streets, sometimes to continue a relationship with her. I wake up every morning, I'm like, okay, where are you? How are you showing up for me today? And I don't necessarily ask those questions outright, but there's this low level hum in the background all the time of like, okay, where's my mom? I'm going to show up and where is she? She like has never far from my consciousness. Yeah. I love Kat: 00:38:35 how you were like saying trying to learn how to talk to your mom because there are still ways that you're going to communicate with her even if she is deceased. I mean that's just like how it's going to be, but obviously you can't talk to her. So you know, you have to figure out how am I going to see her in my life today? You know, some days it can be a matter of trying and some days she just shows up. But that's still learning how to communicate with someone who is no longer alive. So I love that you mentioned that facet of it. Going back to the whole like surrendering thing, do you think that you know your conversations with your mom and how you converse with them and how that changes? Do you think that that's like you surrendering in your grief and was it like, okay, like I am, can't grieve by myself. Kat: 00:39:43 Like I need help grieving, like I surrender and then you started finding all those paintings like without trying, that's kind of how I'm thinking about the situation. I'm not really sure if that's, you know, accurate, but yeah, I gosh, surrendering to grave. I love that you said that because that's so important. Sorry. I know you said that and you know, previous statement, but it's so important to surrender in your grief because we cannot like grieve without help or support or anything like as much as it is an individual process, I mean it's literally impossible to try to grieve on your own. At least that's what I think. I mean it would be 20,000 times harder, so I'm definitely gonna work on surrendering and my grief. That's, yeah, that's going to be interesting. Shelby: 00:40:44 I should probably correct myself a little bit here because I feel like I'm constantly surrendering. It's not like there was one moment of surrender and it's like, okay, now I've surrendered and I'm done with that. It's like every single, not necessarily every single day, but probably weekly. I need to surrender. I need to just have these moments where like I am not as in control as I think I am. This is not going how I want it to go. There's a picture of something happening here that is not what I want it to be and I start churning these like victim gears again and telling the story and sometimes, and this is just now coming to me, I have never used this visual before in my life, but I think I have this visual in my brain literally right now of the kind older gentleman who's standing to my left and he's a little balding and he's got some glasses on and acute like little wrinkly face, but he's got these pants on like old school church pants with suspenders on them in the pockets are huge and his offers like here, let me take that and just stick it in here for a while for safekeeping and he has no intentions to do anything with it. Shelby: 00:41:44 He has no power to transmute or alchemize whatever the pain is. He just wants to carry it for a while. And sometimes I, I can picture myself just getting to this point where I'm like, oh, I'm so sick of carrying this, can someone else please just take this? And I'm like, okay, here you have this. And so even if it remains to be a warrior, an issue in my life, I'm like, okay, I'm not carrying that. Um, which is really neat. And Yeah, I aligned with this idea of having these moments of surrender. And they also come to, I mean, again and hearing the stories of other people and you say, grief is something that is an individual process. And I say, yeah, grief is unique and individual and we can't do it alone. So it's like, yes. And, um, so yeah, again, looking to these stories of other people, whether it's through podcasts, like having you on, coming back, um, or books that I read or bloggers or Instagram, people that I follow, I'm like anyone who can give me any shred of insight about what it's like to surrender in grief over and over and over again. Shelby: 00:42:50 Even if grief looks like depression or eating disorders or divorce or breakups or the loss of a parent or the loss of a baby or whatever the loss is, it doesn't necessarily have to be death, death of a parent, death of a mother. It doesn't have to be that specific, but anyone who can be, uh, a model of that for me on a regular basis. I want you on my team. Like I want you in my club. I want you in my feed. I want you showing up in my email inbox. I want you anywhere I can find you. Because if I keep telling myself these messages of, look, other people are out here surrendering, you can do it too. You're not alone. Um, it also reminds me that I have some kind of power. I'm like, I have the power and decision to surrender as well. Shelby: 00:43:33 So render is not a passive process for as much as people think, like in war analogies and stuff. Especially like, oh, they've surrendered. They've given up, they've, you know, no longer have any hope, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, no. You have to make an active choice to hand over something that's really bugging you, are pissing you off or weighing on you to something larger. Whether it's the analogy of the Nice old man who just has really deep pockets and wants to carry things around for you. Um, or if it's something as large as like telling God how pissed I am at him and then for him to be, can I just hold you for a second? Like can we just hang on to you for a while? Um, it comes in small and large scales, but surrender is something that's incredibly, incredibly conscious and powerful that is extremely important to point out. It's 100% not an active, I mean not a passive process. It is very active and you have to like continually work at Kat: 00:44:32 it just like you have to continually work at your grief. But it is definitely helpful not being alone in your grief and finding someone who can relate to your loss and, or you know, someone that you get comfort from. For me it was, you know, finding other women that I've lost a mom. But for you it could be, you know, just somebody who's grieving in general. Um, yeah, I mean they can't do it alone. So sometimes you just have to admit that you can't do it alone and that you need support and you need help and that's okay. That doesn't mean anything. Like that doesn't mean that you're weak or crazy or anything like that. But yeah, you bring up a very good point. Like that's just how grief works. And when you talk to other people and you see that like you're not alone, which is crazy how much comfort that brains and like how much you realize like yeah, this sucks, but it sucks a lot less knowing that somebody else is going through something. Just a Sucky, I'm sorry, I just said sucks a lot or multiple versions of it, but yeah. How do you feel about that? Like what are your thoughts? Like were you actively looking for the support in your grief or did it just kind of happen? Like, was it just a sign that like, hey, my mom is here and she is and she is telling me that it's okay to surrender and to essentially get help. It almost seems like she was showing up when you receive like, like Shelby: 00:46:27 your support. Um, I kind of received a sign, which is a weird thing. Again, this has to do with me always being on the hunt for signs, uh, from my mom and one of the very first books that changed my outlook on grief and loss or made me recognize how much power I have within loss as not a victim. I have at least 1% responsibility in what happens for the rest of my life as a book called the grief recovery method. And it was written in the 1980s by these two guys, one who had gone through a pretty catastrophic divorce and the other one who had experienced a death. And it takes you through this framework of laying out your entire relationship first with grief, then your relationship with loss over the course of your life and then your relationship with one person. So it gets gradually more specific and eventually at the end of the course, you, you right, uh, you essentially complete what was left in complete by the loss, whether it was death, divorce, any of a list of like 40 something odd losses you can experience within your life. And these statements are really simple. Like, I'm sorry for this, I forgive you for that. Thank you so much for teaching me this. But these statements or things that you didn't get to say before your loved one died. And um, they're really powerful ways to kind of, Shelby: 00:47:50 to close the circle. But then a reminder too that as life continues, things like milestones of graduation or getting married or having kids or whatever, you're going to need to have like ps conversations with your person, like the conversation doesn't actually ever end. Um, but it was really, really helpful and powerful tool for me. And I was just on their website one day and I was kind of poking around, uh, looking for more of their history in the book. And I found out that I could be trained to lead this course for other people. And I'm like, oh, interesting. I could connect with other grievers in that way. Um, I could lead workshops in the city of Chicago, whether or not people would actually want them, but like I could do like a scholarly level grief study. And I joke on my podcast coming back that, uh, my loss has made me a student of grief. So I feel like I'm always learning about what it means to be in this experience. And I looked for the closest training program to Chicago and literally the day that I was on the website, uh, I clicked over to the training page. I found the closest training to the city of Chicago. I was going to have to take a train out beyond the suburbs to get to it. Speaker 3: 00:48:55 MMM. Shelby: 00:48:57 But it was the last day to register at early bird pricing and the city where the course was taking place was the city where my parents got married. And I was like, if this is not a sign that I should at least pursue this for my own selfish interest and to connect with other grievers, I'm going to do it. And so I dropped the cash to do it and it was a four day weekend with a bunch of other grievers from around the Midwest actually. And we were all trained in this modality together. So now I am trained to lead courses in the grief recovery method. And um, beyond that, it was an opportunity for me to tell my story again because for all intents and purposes, the grief recovery methods should happen over the course of like seven to 12 weeks or so. And this was expedited where you experienced what you're going to be teaching clients within the course of three days. And to release my mom again in that kind of relationship structure format in the presence of other human beings who could witness for me, Oh my God, I literally had a breakdown in the middle of this room as we were sharing our, our letters at the end of this course. And I was held and witnessed in a way and my partner was a woman who had lost a child and so it was so incredible. But to just be sitting across from her and having this experience with her specifically. Speaker 3: 00:50:14 MMM. Shelby: 00:50:16 Oh my God. It was so incredible to be trained in that process. And that kind of kickstarted this thing of Oh my God, I could be doing something more with this. And that slowly morphed into me continuing read books about grief and memoirs and things. And I started sharing them on Facebook, like all these little quotes and snippets I would find cause I was interested in them. I thought other people might be too. And some, and people started approaching me saying, hey, you should do something with this. And so I started a Facebook page just called Shelby for Cynthia. My name is Shelby Forsyth, but I added a, the I and a onto the end because I like flowers a lot for Cynthia is like a plant that blooms yellow in the spring. Um, and I was like, if I ever publish a book, I want it to be close to by name, but not quite my name. Shelby: 00:50:57 And I didn't even think I was going to publish a book at that time. But I'm like, if there's anything about me publicly, this is what I want it to sound like. For some reason I was just very attached to this. And so I started releasing, this was probably back in 2016 so three years out from the loss from my mom, I would do Facebook lives every single Wednesday. And this intuitive coach came up to me during a business coaching session and she had heard me speak during the session and she was like, I don't know why, but I just got this message for you. You need to use your voice. And I was like, holy crap, that's the kick in the butt. I need it. And the next day I went live on Facebook. And so I started doing Facebook lives every Wednesday and I was sharing this dream with people and talking about, um, kind of these things about grief that fascinated me. Shelby: 00:51:37 And everyone came back to me like, why don't you start a podcast? And that was another kick in the butt that I needed. And I heard it from enough people that I was like, okay, I should start doing this now. And create that bigger platform. And it was amazing. It kind of crossed my mind before and I leaned on podcast in my own grief. But the process of doing it, it's like, I don't know what you think about that. And so I literally self-taught through youtube courses and research and, and joining a bunch of Facebook groups and asking experts there. I'm like, what Mike should I use? How do I edit this? What server platform do I use? I don't know. The first thing about it, I self taught the whole thing. I put up my very first like rickety little episode in May of 2017. Shelby: 00:52:16 Uh, and then just this past year, I celebrated two whole years of coming back being on the air and kind of when I say grief work, the work that I do is, it's threefold. So I offer tools like these practical things like the grief recovery method, um, things like the wolf in the basement, like these visual analogies that help people latch onto, oh, this is what grief looks like for me. Or even tools like calling in your inner child or making anxiety, a person that we can talk to and have a conversation with in the midst of loss. So tools come in. Uh, the second thing that I do is space massive space holder for people, whether it's witnessing somebody loss one on one through coaching, which I also do, or through the grief recovery method or through Reiki, which I also got trained in the spiritual energy modality. Shelby: 00:53:04 Um, and just providing space for people to share their stories and having that space be non-analytical nonjudgmental noncritical. Like I'm not out to diagnose or fix anybody, that's not my job. Just put your story here and I, I use this analogy of the dining room table. Like just dump all your shit out on the dining room table and we'll sort through it together. Like that's the kind of space you can expect with me. Um, and then support, and this involves a community level. And so with the podcast, I started a private Facebook group called the Grief Growers Garden where people can come in and share their stories and photos and really hard days are questions about estates or feeling helpless or talking about death with kids. Just like any topic, you can come in and share. And we're constantly sharing things with each other, which is really cool. Shelby: 00:53:48 Um, so beyond getting support from me, they can get support from other people who've been listening to the show and tuned into these tools and tuned into this idea of what it's like to hold space. And so now they know how to do these things for each other. And so I can kind of step back and be like, you guys know how to do this, you know, file a little birdies, fly little grief birds. Um, and, uh, and it's never where I'm totally hands off, but I can, I can step back with this knowledge and faith that okay, now that they have heard the stories from me and from the guests that I bring onto the show and from the work that I do, um, they can kind of take their grief into their own hands and have their own coming back experiences and journeys with it, which is really cool. And so that tools space and support framework in the aftermath of loss, I mean it's what helps me. It's what I found. I found my own tools. I found my own space where I was welcome and I found my support where I needed it. But to be able to offer it all inclusive in this one space, through a podcast, through coaching, through just like exposure to the stories of other people is really incredible. And, and to just Kat: 00:54:50 okay Shelby: 00:54:51 be the host of that platform or to be the liaison between somebody else's story and a grieving heart is like wicked. Cool. Kat: 00:55:00 Yeah. I was about to ask how you got into podcasting. Um, it seems to be kind of by accident. I mean, isn't that how we all get into it at this point? But yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. Um, but yeah, it's so important for a griever to find, um, you know, their space in their group and community is so, so, so important and a lot of times they don't know how to like create it. So the fact that, you know, like you're able to create that for your type of griever and like we're able to create this like, I mean you, it goes to show like you're not alone. Like I never thought that I would meet so many women who've lost a mom until I started talking to other people and I realized like, wow, like we automatically had this connection because we've both been through basically the same thing and we both experienced the same loss. And that right there just makes a community and there's just something so comforting and reassuring about that. Um, yeah, that's all I really have to say to that. But is there anything else that you would just love to leave with the listeners, you regarding how to cope with this loss, knowing that your mom left the world in the midst of Y'all being in a fight because a note, you're not the only one who has gone through that. Shelby: 00:56:41 Um, well, the tagline of my podcast is because even through grief we are growing, and this is something that I wish someone would've told me while I was grieving is like, hey, even if you don't recognize it, you're growing because you're, everything is literally a new experience for you right now. So you're literally learning how to life again after loss has happened. And then as, as time goes on and as you continue to pull in tools that are useful to you in space and support that is useful to you, you start to look back and you're like, oh yeah. Even when I thought I was stuck, I was growing. Even when I thought it was over, I was growing. Even when I thought the conversation was over, I was growing. And the system. This is something that gives me chills when I talk about, um, because it's what I needed to hear. Shelby: 00:57:34 There's something that Sheryl Sandberg covers in her book. Option B. Uh, it's called the three p's and I don't ever remember what all of them are. I think its pervasiveness, permanents and personalization. But the one that I remember the most is permanence because when we're in the aftermath of loss, our brands are so freaked by everything that's just happened. The story we tell ourselves as this is the way it's going to look for the rest of my life, like this is awful and horrible and horrendous and I can not see a way out of this. So this must be what forever looks like in my life. And that is absolutely soul crushing. And I was in that place of like, I'm going to be mad forever. I'm not going to be loved forever. I'm not accepted forever. I am helpless forever. I'm a victim forever. And for me to receive this message of even through grief, we are growing to know that even when I believe all of these things, if I'm going to be loveless, helpless, victim, whatever, for the rest of my life, even to know and I am growing in some way through this, it just releases the tiniest bit of pressure. Shelby: 00:58:38 And I'm like, just a little bit, I can breathe in this space and that to somebody who is craving just a tiniest breath of fresh air, I'm like, that's all I need. I can make it till tomorrow to know that I am growing through this in some way that I cannot understand yet. Um, it's incredible. And so I think if I were to leave anybody with anything, it's like no matter where you are in your grief right now, if you believe that this is going to look exactly like this forever, wherever you are, you're growing. And you don't have to be consciously growing. There are people who are consciously growing with it. They're pursuing the books or the podcasts or the communities or the tools or whatever. They're actively reaching for it. But if you're actively reaching for nothing and you're like, how can I possibly be through this? Just know that you are by being human and alive and experience something new in this moment by having the experience of grief, you are growing already. So like it's okay, you don't have to work so hard. You don't have to try so hard handed over to somebody or something else that can carry it for you because you're already growing. You're already doing the work. Absolutely right. Yeah. Kat: 00:59:42 Um, I used the word permanents a lot when it comes to grief because it's so easy to get high down in your permanents and you're like, okay, like this is my new normal. You know, you get so stuck in it and it's super duper hard to get out sometimes because you have your mind wrapped around the fact that like, Hey, this was permanent. You know, my mom's not coming back. Which yeah, you're like, you need to have that realization. But also to a certain extent, like you have to be realistic. But yeah, 100% like your face of grief is not permanent and that is very important to realize that like, hey, even though this new normal is like a permanent situation, like I can't 100% grow through my grief, I'm not going to be miserable forever. Like I will be happy. I will somehow eventually be in the best place that I've been since my loss, regardless of how I get there. But like I will grow through my grief and I will be happy and I will live a good life despite the hand that I have been dealt. Kat: 01:00:55 Yeah, I just wanted to thank you so much for being on the show. Ever since I started like the grief work in podcasting, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to have Shelby. She is like my grief idol and I'm just so glad that you said yes. So this is so much fun. Yeah, I am so glad you enjoyed it. Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have three favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know the [inaudible] Group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Finally had to cap on our.com forward slash podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Speaker 4: 01:01:49 [inaudible] Speaker 4: 01:02:09 this has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

Kat Bonner was just 18 years old when her mom was killed instantly in a car accident. She went to live with her grandmother, but just two and a half years later, her grandmother—Kat's second mother figure—died. This week on Coming Back, Kat is sharing what it was like to discover her mom was an alcoholic after her death, how to navigate grief in college, and how at some point, coming back is conscious decision we all have to make. Also this week, the grief of feeling STUCK in the aftermath of loss. Kat Bonner's work and Life After Losing Mom podcast: https://katbonner.com/ Become a part of my insiders community! Support Coming Back on Patreon to unlock weekly grief journaling prompts, podcast swag, and LIVE grief hangouts from me: https://www.patreon.com/shelbyforsythia Set sail on the 2020 Bereavement Cruise: http://comingbackcruise.com Apply for private grief coaching with me: http://www.shelbyforsythia.com/grief-coaching/ Subscribe to Coming Back: Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/2CMqhhE Spotify http://spoti.fi/2CMr16k Stitcher http://bit.ly/2m08eJr YouTube http://bit.ly/2m1JWil Google Podcasts https://tinyurl.com/y8elxq9t TuneIn http://bit.ly/2F469Fl Continue the conversation on grief and loss in my private Facebook group, The Grief Growers' Garden: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thegriefgrowersgarden/ To ask a question or leave a comment for a future show, leave a voicemail or text 312.725.3043 or email shelby@shelbyforsythia.com. Because even through grief, we are growing. http://www.shelbyforsythia.com/

On this episode of Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner, our guest is Tashina Fritz, the founder of FIT4MOM Lanier. A mother to three girls, Tashina lost her mother three years ago, and talks to us about the past 3 years of discovering who she is, how she handles the grieving process, and the effort - and sometimes joy - of keeping moving. Topics Discussed: The challenges of being a mother to young girls while coping with your own bereavement How do you keep the memories of your loved one alive without them overwhelming you? What happens when your mom has an identical twin? The relief of finding a community of people who have experienced a similar loss How to regain your sense of purpose and meaning when things feel bleak and hopeless How a community of moms can help you find support and help The process of grief and how you can use it to honor the memory of your loved person by not fighting it We know that grief is a personal and specific experience with its own steps and its own processes. There is a huge community of women who are experiencing similar feelings of loss and uncertainty - and this is the place where you can find support and help. Not only is it important for you to practice self-care and healing for yourself, but to allow you to be present for your family, and part of this world. Surviving carries its own burdens, and grief is never easy, but thriving is the perfect way to keep the memory of your mother alive. Links Mentioned: Follow Tashina: Website Tashina on Instagram Fit4Mom On Instagram Tashina on Facebook FIT4MOM Lanier on Facebook Follow Kat: Visit The Website Subscribe to the Podcast Join The Life After Losing Mom Facebook Community Like On Facebook Follow On Instagram Transcript Tashina Fritz: 00:00 It was, it was, it was trying to gain that identity that hey, you are still worth pursuing. You are still worth being a mom to your kids. You are still have value with what you have to say to others. Even within the depth of that grief, Kat Bonner: 00:20 you're listening to life after losing mom with me. Kat Bonner. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their mom and discovered the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and being the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode of life after losing mom. Subscribe today. More information can be found at katbonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. New Speaker: 00:48 Hello. Tashina. How are you going? Well good, thank you. Well, I know briefly a little bit about, um, what you do. Um, but we will get to that at the end of the show. So I just wanted to thank you for being here, Tashina Fritz: 01:11 right. Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk a little bit about my journey with, you know, having to deal with the loss of my mother. Um, at an age I was 30 when she passed and how, and I have three kids and I, my youngest was eight weeks old when she passed and, and how to come to terms that, hey, she won't be there for my kids. She won't be grandma any warships be a distant memory as well as how to navigate grief for myself and my girls. That was a, a big challenge. And so I just, three years, fast forward, it will be three years, June 24th. So I'm coming up on that anniversary in a couple of weeks and it's been a long road. It's been a lot of tears, but also a lot of joy and having to navigate through grief counseling and what I do with fit from them, the near and being able to pour into other moms. I'll talk about that later. But um, it's been, it's been an okay road and I'm surviving. I take it one day at a time and we just see how it goes. Kat Bonner: 02:34 Wonderful. Thank you for sharing. I love how you're saying take it one day at a time because that's so important in grief and well just life in general, but especially with grief and wow. Yeah, eight weeks when your youngest one was eight weeks. So it was, it was a little emotional. It's just, yeah, that's, so you have three girls too? Tashina Fritz: 02:57 Do I have three girls there? Kat Bonner: 02:58 Oh Wow. So it's like a Speaker 3: 03:00 double whammy. It's like, okay, like you're a girl who like lost her mom and I mean, I hate to think that that's different than like men, but three girls. It's like you have that relationship with them that you had with your mom, so you're like, oh crud. Not having it. It's, it's, it's challenging because you know too, you see on Facebook are our biggest demise. But we see, you know, other girls with their moms and you know, grandma time and talking about generations and you're like, oh, this is tough because my kids won't have that. My, my oldest was four when my mom passed and my middle was too. And they, my oldest, of course, she had a really good relationship with my mom and so she remembers her in my, my middle does a bit as well. Um, she, she kind of has a really good memory surprisingly in that, so she's got some great memories of grandma. Speaker 3: 04:00 Um, my youngest though, she has no idea. And one thing that was cool about my mom, my mom was an identical twin. And so my aunt lives very close by to us and she looks exactly like grandma. Um, and so my girls have been blessed with having a backup grandma to say the least. Um, but my youngest, she's like, she doesn't understand. They're like, oh, I'll have pictures of my mom and my aunt. And she's just like, well that's, that's aunt die. And you're like, well, no, that's grandma and aunt die. She's just like, no, it's not. And so trying to, trying to explain to her and keep my mom's memory alive. I know she'll, she's only three and she'll understand it eventually. But, um, trying to, to talk about grandma with her. She's just like, no, mom, I don't, this is aunt grandma. This is aunt die, but my older girls are like, no, Evelyn, this is grandma. So we have it. We have a lot of those conversations in our house, which you brings, brings a lot of laughter with it cause it is just like kind of a silly situation to have. Um, but a very unique situation as well. Kat Bonner: 05:16 I love that. That's, I'm sure you know as you're younger one gets older, she'll understand more, but like having them close by. I can't imagine. I mean I get confused anyways when there's two of them, saint and clean bus side by side. So, oh my gosh. I, I wonder if there are anything alike. Speaker 3: 05:33 Yeah, they're my, my mom and my aunt. They're very much alive. Kat Bonner: 05:40 Oh well I also say, how do you feel about that? Is that weird? Speaker 3: 05:44 Yeah, it's, it's kind of a mixed bag of emotions and just like kind of how grief is like, yeah, my mom died of breast cancer and so I always tell people about it, you know, they're like, don't you wish she was here? And you're like, well of course I would need her Tashina Fritz: 05:58 here pre breast cancer. Like, I do not want her back the way that she was just cause cancer is awful, awful cancer thing. And um, it's the same with mine. Speaker 3: 06:09 Yeah. Like I am so thankful that I have her because I get a glimpse of my mom with her and as well as to like, I can still at least ask her questions like, do you remember this when I was little, you know, cause those memories start to fade. Like Tashina Fritz: 06:23 what? You know, what happened? My mom was a child, especially with my girls asking these wars, mommy, did you do that as a kid? And you're like, mmm, Speaker 3: 06:30 maybe I did. And so I do have that with my aunt to be able to talk about it. But then I also have a person that's walking around that looks exactly, Tashina Fritz: 06:39 we like my mom and she's not. And that also makes it difficult as well because you, it's all, it's a reminder that you don't have your mom. And so it's, you know, the same way that grief is where it's just that mix bag of, um, I'm very thankful for it, but it's also tough at the same time. Kat Bonner: 07:00 Yeah, absolutely. I don't know how I would feel if somebody was walking around that look like my mom that was not my mom. I feel like, yeah, you would probably never get Speaker 3: 07:10 used to that. It's definitely weird. I'll have to send you a picture because they, I mean, they do look a lot of likely a lot of pictures from when they were little girls. My mom and my aunt, like we can't even tell where, like, I don't even know who was, who say look so much alike. So it is definitely, it's, it's different. Kat Bonner: 07:32 I mean, that's funny. I guess like identical quint, I'd, uh, identical twins Tashina Fritz: 07:37 are Kat Bonner: 07:38 identical, but you don't really think about this thing until you're in the situation. You're like, oh my goodness, what in the world? Speaker 3: 07:47 I know. I remember I was, I'm on a motherless daughters site, um, on Facebook, which is super helpful because, you know, I always encourage people when I, oh, I talked to other people that have gone through loss with their mom and I'm like, you need to get on something because it's like that strange comfort that you get from hearing other people with the same loss. Like it's just, I don't know if it's like a misery loves company or in, but you know, you just get a lot of comfort from the fact that other people have lost their moms too. And, and, and seeing that, hey, they're actually making it and they're, they're surviving. So I can too. And, um, I remember that one day I just posted and I was like, has anybody, you know, have their mom as a twin and in these sites? I mean, they have thousands of, of people in it. And, and you know, everybody was just like, no, like, no, I don't have that problem. I'm like, okay. Kat Bonner: 08:42 I know I'm not alone, but like from this site, I was like, oh, okay. Oh, well, this is awkward, Speaker 3: 08:50 Walt Lott. No, Kat Bonner: 08:53 that's funny. Yeah. I, I mean it's always nice to have somebody who understands your loss, whether it will, I wouldn't say somebody who understands, I would say people have been through the same loss because there, those are two different things. So if that is found on Facebook, if that is found through meetup, if that is found in target, you know, whatever it's found, it's there, you know, it doesn't matter regardless, it's very much so needed. Um, it seems like your mom pass like, right when, like she was a grandma. I mean, obviously she had been at grandma for four years, but like if you don't plan on having any more kids, it's like, yeah, right after, you know, like your last kid was born, you know, so, and obviously like we always need our moms, but I feel like you really needed her when your last kid was born. It's like really, really? Does it have to be now? Speaker 3: 09:55 Yes, exactly. That was, it was, it was challenging. Not only, you know, two, I had just had a baby, so my hormones are going crazy. I just didn't know. But yeah, you know, you're just like, wait, like my mom always, my mom was just very intentional with her time and family. It was just always so important. So like with my older two girls, she took several weeks. She always took like a maternity leave and would come and stay with us and just help us with like, you know, just everything, you know with your mom. It's like you don't even have to ask. They just do, you know, they, they cleaned the house. They do, you know, just it just, it all comes second nature. And um, with my youngest, with Evelyn, it was, it was tough cause you're just like, here I have this eight legal here, we're planning a few role, I'm navigating grief and the loss of mom and, and you know the whole families who's broken. Speaker 3: 10:52 And it's, it was, it was tough cause you're just like, how do you keep going on? Because you have to, cause you have the, especially in eight week goal, if you'd like, depends entirely on mommy, but also just grieve. And that was, it was, it was tough. It was a lot of dark times, let's just say that, um, that, that occurred because it, it just, you're like, Whoa, I, I, you know, this is tough. Like how, how do you keep going with these things? And, um, an d so that's kind of when I went ahead and started fit for mom linear. Um, we, we're originally from Phoenix, Arizona is where I had my first two girls and we moved to Georgia to be with my mom where, um, my parents live and, and um, I was planning on starting a fit from home. It's a franchise I had. Speaker 3: 11:50 I actually had my, my contract to my franchise that day that my mom passed. And so of course I didn't sign that day because that was not going to happen. But I want ahead and four weeks later signed that contract and opened up shop. And I think a lot of people might look at me, it's like, wow, that is crazy. Why would you start a business, you know, four weeks of, you know, having your mom passed. But I, it gave me so much purpose and something to do and pour into and just like a direction to go. Um, and so I did it. It's crazy as it was and went head first into it. Kat Bonner: 12:35 Yeah, that's so important. I, I mean there's no, you know, timeframe for anything. It really just depends. But I mean, you have to have, like, especially when you're reading, you have to have something to motivate you and that keeps you going and like a reason behind dealing with all of this. I mean, like you said, like you literally have to have a purpose and you know, whatever that is for you is whatever that is. So it's so funny that you, I was up at the asking did you start fit for mom, you know, after your mom passed. But I mean, it's so funny to look at, you know, how the timing works out. Um, I feel like a lot of women in our situation probably struggle with finding purpose. And when you, at least for me, like when you don't find purpose, you really start to like lose sight of certain things, like lose sight of who you are. It's like, why am I doing this? Like, am I like, I don't know this person. Like I'm just crying all the time or you know, that sort of thing in grief can I think because the grief is so like, um, individualized that it's easy to lose sight of who you are as an individual without that purpose. So do you think that fit for mom help to you, you know, rediscover your identity through grieving or you know, what helped you, you know, figure out who this new person was? Speaker 3: 14:20 Yeah, I think it definitely played a huge role. So I mean I'll explain it fit four mom, linear. Basically what it is is where a workout program for Moms, we work out with our kiddos and we have some classes where we don't, but it is solely moms that work out together. And, you know, I just kind of came to a turning point. I did it, um, in Arizona where we're from. I was an instructor and I did from when my oldest, who's seven now, she was nine weeks old is when I found it and it gave me so purpose as a mom, Tashina Fritz: 14:52 um, free moving out here and free owning one is a franchise. And you know, cause you know, as moms just being a mom, you have all the questions with these Speaker 3: 15:03 brand new babies and you're just like, you always feel like you're failing and everything and um, it's just tough. It's just tough being. And um, and so it was a true blessing Tashina Fritz: 15:12 seem to me in navigating how to be a mom. Um, when my mom lived in Georgia and I was across the country, um, to have those ladies to lean on. And so when I decided to start it out here, I knew that one, the sole reason that I started it was for other moms to be around me and pour into me and threw it. I pour into mom's like crazy. I mean that's, that's also why I started it, but at the time I needed some moms to rally around me and, and be like, hey, you're doing okay. You can do this. You got this. Um, and in that was huge just with pulling me out of the depths of grief and allowing me to just start the healing process. Um, and I also big purpose through it was I had a great mom. My mom was awesome. She was unbelievably wise. She, like we always cracked up because she never knew a stranger. Like people would like, she just sit down and talk to him and people would like share their life story with her. And she just had this cool, um, knack with her that, um, just really minister to people and in, I have a bit of that too, you know, and I had to kind of Tashina Fritz: 16:38 put on my big girl panties and be like, you know what, what's a great way to honor my mom? It's by doing what she did in a lot of ways, important to other people. And so I was able to really just say, you know, I had a great mom, I was taught to be a really good mom, now I'm going to go help other mothers do the same. And it's, it does. It gives you that sense of identity and that purpose of like, you know what, hey, we're all going to be okay. Speaker 3: 17:10 Now that doesn't mean I'm perfect by any means. You can add a lot of my clients, you know they're there. We have good days and we have bad days, but Tashina Fritz: 17:18 the one true thing that we fall back on is that we are here to embetter one another's lives and to lift one another up and carry them through. Because when you go into even just mothers, a group of mothers, all of them carry some sort of grief. A lot of it's from losing their own children through miscarriage or various things are good. Bit of them even have lost parents and, and how I've going through what I did with my mom has been able to really open up the floodgates with other moms and just being like, I get your grief. I get, I'll get the death of that sorrow. And you know what? We can just keep moving forward, but it's still there. That whole will always still be there. But that doesn't mean that you have to shut down and stuff life. That means that you get to take that hole and you can protect it as much as he need that you're going to keep that growth all around that whole just building up and building up so that you still will be able to flourish. And um, that's where, that's where your fit from us. We come that purpose for me to be able to do that for other moms as well as myself and kind of in that practice, Speaker 3: 18:38 just what you preach. Like, so if I'm telling this to other moms, will I better be doing it too? We'll leave, you know, at my own stuff. And so, um, Tashina Fritz: 18:46 that's what, where I did find my identity with it. Kat Bonner: 18:50 Yeah. I love that. It almost seems like, you know, you were trying to not necessarily find your purpose, but like, okay, sorry, that sounds really bad, but, um, seems like that was a way that you've found your community. You know, like even if there weren't a whole ton of moms in there who had lost a mom, nonetheless, you still were around women who could just relate because that's the way that those women were. And that's the way that their mindset was. So do you think that you were struggling to find your identity as a person or in a struggling to find your identity as a mom? Tashina Fritz: 19:41 I think Holly more as a person. Well, I'm, Speaker 3: 19:47 you know, I was, I was very blessed in the fact that I really, my mom was Tashina Fritz: 19:52 one of the first losses I've had to deal with and, um, Speaker 3: 19:57 which is amazing, but also very tough because it was a tough loss. Did you, like when you, it's one of your first ones and, and Tashina Fritz: 20:06 I, uh, it was, it was, it was trying to gain that identity that hey, you are still worth pursuing. You are still worth being a mom to your kids, you are still have value with what you have to say to others. Even within the depth of that grief. And Speaker 3: 20:31 I went through a good bit of counseling as well. Um, and that, that's main, that's been a huge help and just giving me the strength to be, be Tashina Fritz: 20:40 bold and talk about my grief and talk about how know at losing your mom does suck. Like for lack of a better way to put it. It, it, it just, it just straight sucks. And, and you know what? That's okay too. To acknowledge that it does, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to navigate everything that I do in a negative way. I'm going to let it navigate everything I do in a positive way because my grief, yes, it will always be a part of me and I will never lose it because you, I mean, you hear people that celebrating 60 some odd years without their mom and it's still stings. It's, it's now become a new part of the Va. But I'm not going to let the negativity of my grief define who I am and I'm going to allow it to be a blessing to others by talking about it. And if I can just get even one person that helps with going through grief themselves, I think it's a success and it's going, I'm going to use it to empower. I'm not gonna use it to tear me down. Kat Bonner: 22:04 Yeah, absolutely. So obviously it seems like, Kat Bonner: 22:12 I mean, how can you not struggle with your identity? You know when you lose the person who like birth, do you, I know that sounds, you know, a little, I guess vulgar or I don't even know what their credit for bridges here, but I'm like gory. But you know, regardless if I, like if a woman is a close is close to her mom or not, I mean that's just such a special bond than a mother and her daughter have like a mother and her child even. So what was it that you think, obviously I know that fit for mom helps you rediscover your identity, but was there something like specifically a bout, it seems to me the way you know I'm interpreting it is that when your mom died, you know, you like had just become a mom again. So maybe that's why like that's where the identity was being tied in, like working with other moms. Um, yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Tashina Fritz: 23:21 Yeah, I mean I would say most definitely. I mean I was starting over again with the baby and in I raised two girls with mom, but now I have a new baby to raise without and going through a lot of first without her. And um, you know, cause you, when something new happens you take, you pick up that phone and you're like, hey mom, you know, they did this or why didn't have that anymore. And so having to kind of understand, like internalize and, and in find that identity that hey, you are strong in yourself. You don't have to call mom for it. You can celebrate those things with them. You and with your fam. Yeah, my husband and my kid knows and trying to find that identity that I am a strong mom without my mom being here and that I can do things without mom being here. And it was really just finding that hey, you are strong and you can do this in Tashina Fritz: 24:42 Bart was a huge part of kind of that inner dialogue that I had to have with myself constantly still do. Um, a good is that hey, you can do this. You, you, he got this basically and just kind of letting yourself be like, it's okay that I don't have mom to call anymore. It's okay that I don't have advice from her. Why? Because you know what? She has given me everything that I needed, all the tools that I needed and now I just need to lean on them and take them in the forward and make them my tools that now define me who I have can go forward. And that's a great way to honor my mom as well as be like, you, you taught me these and now I'm going to move forward and I'm going to stand on them. And, and um, it's helped me go through a lot of, yeah, just put, putting on those big girl britches basically. Kat Bonner: 25:43 Yeah. I mean you're very right. And it's so weird to think like sometimes it's immediate when you realize that you are struggling with your identity and you don't know who you are anymore. But then an other aspects, it's like, wait, it takes you awhile to like realize that this is what you're struggling with. So for you, was it like immediate or more gradual that, you know, you realize you were really struggling with your identity? Tashina Fritz: 26:24 I'd say it was fair, fairly immediate. Um, it was, you know, cause you are just, it just hits you. He was like, oh my gosh, how can I do this? How, how am I able to, to go on and, and do the day to day like I used to. I, I don't know if I can, you know, and, and really grappling with that. Speaker 4: 26:55 Yeah. Tashina Fritz: 26:56 It was, it was hard to, to navigate how to do that, how to move forward and say, all right, Speaker 4: 27:08 yeah, Tashina Fritz: 27:09 you can do this. You, you will, you will survive basically. And, and Speaker 4: 27:17 yeah, Tashina Fritz: 27:19 mainly getting right into grief counseling. That was huge on just kind of allowing myself to talk about the tragedy as well as the with it. And Tashina Fritz: 27:35 that kind of started, you're just washing over you and just kind of bringing up a good reminders and honestly crying a lot. Um, especially at first fine often. Um, and it's just, I think just allowing yourself to grieve and be a mom saying, okay, this is what it is now. I can't bring mom back. It's not going to happen. Hmm. Um, and so I can, I can be okay and I can move forward and I can be the mom that she wanted me to be and I can be the wife that she wanted me to see that she looked down on and from taught. And I can be that person and allowing myself to be the person that my mom taught me to be. Um, by just kind of on winding, just the grief and unwinding the hurt. And that was a huge part of just saying, okay, I got this. This is what I'm going to be. I'm going to be this mom that my mom taught me to be and I can do that. Kat Bonner: 28:59 Yeah. I, I love that you mentioned that and like realizing that, you know, it almost was immediate and Speaker 4: 29:07 okay. Kat Bonner: 29:08 That is almost hard to explain. Like in general, it's hard to put, you know, your feelings into words sometimes, especially when it comes to grief because Ge is grief is grief, but it's like, did you struggle with, you know, finding your identity in the past? Like, how did you, I mean, I know fit for mom was like how you coped with that, but did you have to try like a bunch of things? Like how did you cope this struggle Tashina Fritz: 29:42 of grief to, you know, move on from it. Is there a specific thing that helped you? I would say, I mean, grief counseling was huge fun and amazing counselor. Um, I actually tried a couple and finally found one that was like, oh, she's, this is my person. You know? And I always encourage people if they're going through any kind of substantial loss, like if they're not meshing with the counselor change and you will find that one. But really I think just unraveling what grief is, was a big turning point for me. Um, cause you know what, when you don't, when you haven't dealt with grief, you kind of just say, all right, I'll check off this box and I'll check off this box, you know, like denial and all these things, not just start checking them off. And once I get over him, then I'm over him and, and then I'll send you lose somebody and you're like, oh wait, Speaker 3: 30:41 wait. I could do, Tuesday may have been my day of denial. But, uh, Wednesday was my angry day and Thursday was my cry. You know, and you're hitting them all. Or it could have been just like by the hour, who knows? And Tashina Fritz: 30:56 I think just really grappling the understanding of what grief was and that grief is, it won't end. It's not going to stop. I'm never going to stop grieving my mother. It's not going to stop. And I think just kind of coming to that terms that there's no book ends on grief. It will always happen. We will have good days and you'll have bad days. And as time progresses, you have more good days than bad days. And allowing yourself to, to have good days that uh, telling yourself that it's okay to have joyful times admiss your grief, you can still have a lot of joy. And that my mom wanted me to be like that too. She, she doesn't want me to sit around and be crying about it all the time. She wants me to go be a mom to my kids and go change the world with my other, with doing fit for mom and changing mom one mom at a time. Tashina Fritz: 32:01 And that's what she wanted me to do. And so being able to allow myself to honor her and what she would really want me to do and kind of keep that in the back of my mind when I do have those sad days that hey, my mom, she's, she was good, she was wanting to cry. She, she would show her emotions and be like, okay, we, you know, we get it out and then we move forward and, and I feel like I do a lot of the same that she, you know, did and just realizing how much I am like my mom and, and where she taught me these things. And so, I mean, I do it that way then, you know, I'm going to have my sad days and I'm going to allow myself to cry. And my girls know their, like they'll see me kind of really thinking about grandma. Yeah, yeah. Maybe I am thinking about grandma, you know, and, and they know and sharing in that grief with them because they have enough leave too because they lost their grandma. And that was tough. Tashina Fritz: 32:59 Just that kind of saying, I'm going to carry this grief with the, that I'm not going to let it hinder who I'm supposed to be and the mom that I'm supposed to be to my kids and the fitness instructor to the moms that I teach or the leader to the moms that I teach, and I'm not going to let it be a negative. I'm going to let it be a positive because of my grief, I'm able to lead in this way because of my grief. I'm able to be a better mom and be purposeful in what I do with Michael Hall's, because of my grief, I'm able to put one step in front of the author and use it as a positive and not a negative. Kat Bonner: 33:52 I think that is like mad new favorite phrase because of my grief, but it is so true and it seems like you know, and I'm sure a ton of people struggle with this. I know that I did as well, but as almost like just expressing your grief, you know, whether it's talking it out or writing it out or whatever, like you have to express your grief somehow to figure out what it is that is going to help you rediscover your identity. And it's like when you figured out that it was going to be, you know, doing the whole fit for mom thing and working with moms that was going to help you rediscover your identity. Yeah. Then you did that, but you had to like talk it through and you had to get help before you knew. It seems like, you know, that's what it was. Kat Bonner: 34:50 That would help you find yourself again and that's so important. Like grief is not an easy thing to talk about regardless of who you're talking about at with, but it literally just goes to show that like how important it is. I mean, nobody wants to feel like they don't know who they are. I mean, it's bad enough you're in the situation and like once you, and you're obviously not going to be the same person that you were before this happened. No. I think that's also very important to point out, but once you a realize that and be realized that like you're so much stronger of a person and that you and like take pride in the fact that you are who you are because of your grief. That is a very powerful thing. And that is something that people are like you should be proud of because not many people get to say that and yet sucks. Yeah. Like you wish some like, you know, you might wish that you didn't have to go through this to be this kick ass woman that you are, but you know, that's life and you have to make the best out of the hand that you know you have been dealt and you, I'm like, no, you cannot let grief control you. You have to take control of it to get to where you want to be and to find the person that you are meant to be in this world. Tashina Fritz: 36:20 Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I always tell my clients or use close friends, I'm like, I'm going to talk about, I'm going to blow Kinda, I'm gonna blow grief up because so many people just, they don't talk about, okay maybe if I don't mention her mom then everything will be okay. I'm like, no, you guys talk about it like, and if I start crying it's okay. Like I will cry in form with you because you know what, I'd rather talk about it. And that is more honoring to my mom then shoving it down and not talking about it and I want my clients and my friends to ask me about it because you know what? They are so fortunate that they have their mom but maybe one day they won't and I want them to know that hey, they can come to me because I have gone through it and I am fairly vocal about and and but in and out that I'd do it the right way by any means. But I'm going to talk about it because it is now a part of me and like we say, our identity, like grief is now an identity of mine. A, a new hat that I wear. And I'm going to talk about that hat because it's a big part of my girls. That's okay. Hold on one second. It's okay for Kat Bonner: 37:48 close the door. We had a big converse. I said you guys have to be quiet and yeah, I don't know. I think it's very important. Like I love how you said, you know, maybe my clients will go through this waltz one day. First of all, I'm not saying that children don't pass before their parents, but regardless, like they will be without their moms, whether they are in heaven or whatever. You believe in, you know, without your mom or whether they are living without their mom one day they're going to be without them. Like death is a part of life. And I think people who have experienced experience as loss just to get, so like what? Like this is the thing, this happens. I'm like, yes. It happens. Like, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I thought I was invincible. I mean everyone thinks that it won't happen to them, but it's like it's gonna Happen to you and I don't try to be like a Debbie Downer but also tried to be realistic and like I think that's very important to point out to people. Kat Bonner: 38:53 Like one day you will be without your mom regardless of you are living or not. You know, and actually heard this analogy the other day, one of my friends told me, she was like grief is like the ocean. And I kept thinking and I was like, you know it kind of is and it's weird. I went into like a theme park that weekend. I was like, oh my gosh, a grief is like a roller coaster. And I know it sounds cliche but like, oh some days are up, some days are down, some days you're flipped upside down. Like roller coasters go under water. Some days you're like floating on the water. Some days you're under the water. I'm like, oh my gosh. I don't know. Maybe I'm just weird and like roller coasters. But Speaker 3: 39:39 it's, it is, it's a up and down, up and down. And, and you know, that's what I recently had a good close client of mine as well as friend. She just lost her step mom to breast cancer and they were really close like as a last week and is going nick, you know, just kind of reached out to her. I'm just like, yeah, ask me questions like lemony or even about hospice and what it looks like at the end. Like trusts me, like ask me, I want to to be an open book for you because you know, I, when I went through it and I didn't have some, like you're like, what is going on? What is all this, you know, and, um, and there's a lot of comfort and you know, going through it with somebody else's, it's also very sad of course. But, um, but just trying to, I'm like an open book with it because grief is crazy and you just don't understand how it goes up and down and how you have good days. Speaker 3: 40:39 And also the triggers. Like I, I'm trying to explain to people triggers, like, you know, the day of my mom's death, that's a tough day. Mother's Day really sucks. I never really knew how much, like I just kind of shut down for mother's Day. I'm not going to lie. Like I'm like, I can't go to church. I can't, like, it's just, it's a really, really tough day for me. Which is funny because I just really never, you know, you honored your mom on Mother's Day, but you didn't really care that much that it's like a, a hallmark holiday now you're just like, man, this holidays. Yeah, and in your birthday, my birthday, because you don't have that person calling you anymore. Being like, here's your birth story on it and you know, and that, Kat Bonner: 41:25 I struggle with that, but I'm glad I'm not the only one because my birthday is like harder for me sometimes in my mom's birthday and people were like, you're crazy. I'm like, all right, well, whatever. I guess I'm crazy then. Speaker 3: 41:35 Well. Well, it's because that was like, you know, I didn't really realize it really until my mom was gone, but like, Kat Bonner: 41:42 okay, Speaker 3: 41:42 art, like for my kids, like it's a huge celebration for me cause that's when I had my babies, you know? And it's the same. It's like, gosh, that's something that's fun to celebrate with your mom who, who had you in birth unit brought you into this world. And, and in Christmas of course, all the holidays, those are always tough, you know? And, and so it's explaining to my friend, I was just like, you know, there's times that I kind of disagree. Tashina Fritz: 42:05 Fear. Like I, I will kind of come a home body and not do, um, things not as active on, you know, in the past Speaker 3: 42:14 group and stuff like that. And it's just because it's my way of coping with these tough times. And then I'll get back kind of like nothing happened and it's like I just had to get over it. I had to kind of mourn and then, okay, now I'm back, you know? And, but there's those triggers and they just come up and gosh, they'll probably always be there. I assume you know, by, maybe it'll get easier as the years go by, but Kat Bonner: 42:42 MMM. Speaker 3: 42:43 Well it's just, it is, it's just tough than there's no, there's no really late. It's Tashina Fritz: 42:47 lane it to people until they've gone through it. Um, and that's okay. Like I was in the dark for a long time and now I've kind of open to the light of the sorrow of grief and it's, it's a whole new world and it gives you a new perspective and seeing the world through different eyes and how much of the world is grieving and in, and just getting through day to day. And it really gives you lots of empathy for other people, um, in a major way. Kat Bonner: 43:29 I love how you said that. I think even like, as you know, we go through our own, separate in a grief process and we start to grow. Obviously it's very important one to point out that grief does not end. That's just not a thing. Uh, yeah. But it's also important to know this. I love hearing saying like, you know, you have more empathy. Like when my mom first that I was not empathetic can knock on lie granted. Yes, I think it was because I was the only, I was the first person of like my immediate friend group or whatever, you know, had been through that wall. So I'm like, don't tell me you understand if you lost your great uncle because you don't understand it. So like obviously now I'm, you know, I'm a lot more empathetic, but I love how you mentioned that because it really just goes to show, especially in the beginning stages of grief, the importance of having people around you that can truly understand your loss. Kat Bonner: 44:34 Like not just say, I understand like obviously everybody's lost story with their mom is different, but like a woman who's lost her mom is a woman who's lost her mom. Like, I don't care how you look at it. And I didn't act like I didn't have that until, you know, I got to college and like once I got to college and realized that there's so many people like me, I was like, Oh my word, this was a night and day difference. But like when you don't have that at first you realize how hard it is. And like when you finally find that, oh my gosh, it's so riveting and you realize how helpful and how healing it is. And even if like you need help and like, you know, especially if like you see other women who have experienced your lost and they're doing well and like getting help from them and seeing that like, hey, they're doing well, I can do well too. Kat Bonner: 45:33 Let me obviously grief he, and it was very individual but like, hey, what did you do to be in this place? Like maybe I should try what you did. Like maybe I can get some pointers just by talking. Like, it's just crazy and it's so, I find it more comforting to talk and to get help from, you know, women, other women who've lost their moms just because like they're not going to judge you. They're not gonna say that you know what you're feeling like there's literally not going to be like, I understand. I'm not saying that those people who do say that or condescending, but it goes unsaid. You don't have, they don't need to say that. They understand for you to feel like they understand and I just, yeah, I just, I cannot stress the importance of that enough. It's just like finding, Speaker 3: 46:26 it's just huge. Like that's what I always encouraged people. I'm like, go on that mother and this daughter site to start. Kat Bonner: 46:31 I mean if it's overwhelming for you, there's plenty of, I think because there's also like 10 trillion groups or something like that. I'm like, that's kind of sort of why I started this podcast. Like if it, podcasts are more of your thing, if blogs are more your thing, like whatever, there's plenty of resources out there for you to find a community with other women who have been through your loss. So like whatever it is that you is your thing like go find it, it's out there. Speaker 3: 47:04 And you, do you feel like you have kind of this like unspoken bond with people? Like, uh, I have, uh, you know, a good bit of friends now that have lost their mothers and in some that we've come together with because of that, like there's another franchise for fit for mom and Chattanooga and that's kind of how we came together. She shared her story on um, one of our like co fit for mom pages about losing her mom Tashina Fritz: 47:30 and she's a year ahead of me, um, in her loss. And I like almost immediately reached out to her and I was like, Hey, I mean this is a weird thing, but I lost my mom too. And like, we have this like bond that you can explain because of that, you know, like we might be like completely polar opposite of people, but because we both lost our moms and she lost hers. Um, when her, I think she, she recently had a baby so she had a baby without her mom and walking through that with her and Kinda hearing her talk about that and Speaker 4: 48:11 okay, Tashina Fritz: 48:11 we just have this, you know, we can almost just like look at each other and just know I get it, I get that sorrow, I get that, you know, and without even saying anything. And, and I have another friend who, she's kind of a mentor of mine and she lost her mom about the same age as I, but she's 20 years. Fast forward, not quite 20 years, but she is fast forward a bit. Her children were young, like mine where she lost her mom and now her children are graduating high school or college and, and so she's walked it and it's just going through it with her, you know, her talking about it and she's made more progress than even I have in you navigating her grief and just kind of hearing some stories of half she's conquered and still been an amazing mom and still been a successful business woman and hearing that, hey, I can do that. I see you did that. I can do that. And it does. It's just that that's trained solace that you get, um, with that like-mindedness that you have and, and that sorrow that you shared. Kat Bonner: 49:29 Yeah, it is a small world, that's for sure. And it's so nice. It's like when you find, I know another woman who can relate to your loss, that you literally don't have to feel like you have to talk about it or you have to say everything that comes to your mind. Like you don't have to say like, you don't have to hear them say, I understand. Because you know that they understand and it's like, it's hard to describe, but there's literally just something about it. Like it doesn't matter if you've ever met them. It doesn't matter if you like know them personally. But just knowing and just conversing with them just about everyday life or whatever, knowing that like, oh my gosh, it's so hard. Like I feel like grief and just in general, like a lot of people think that like is this normal? Kat Bonner: 50:17 Is this like a thing? But knowing and just conversing with other women and realizing that this is a thing, like it's okay if I'm feeling x amount of ways, but if you would just ask a random person who has never lost anything in their life or is never grieved anything, they'd probably be like, ah, I don't know what to tell you. And I'm like, dude, that's not helpful. I appreciate it. But I mean, that just goes to show like when do you need help? That might not be the best person to turn to just say it. But that's just my two sentence. So, yeah, Speaker 3: 50:54 exactly. I know, I just, I remember really kind of my first stages of grief, yelling, you cry a lot at first of course. And I used to remember where a person was, one of our was with two other women and one of them was like, you know, I just feel like I need to pray for you and just lift you up. And I'll say, can you thank you, I appreciate that. Well, of course, you know, while she was praying, I started crying and the other girl that was there, it was just like, oh, she's crying again. And you're just like, what? Like of course I am like, this is tough. Like, and I just, it, you know, that's like those few situations where those things just etch into your memory and you're just like, what a terrible way to, to respond to somebody crying about their mother. Speaker 3: 51:38 Like it's just not okay. And, and I think that's why I've also become quite vocal about migraines. There's, because I just, I feel like so many people just don't, you just don't get it. And so let me, let me share a bit of my depth of sorrow that I have because of these things that I, I don't have any more because my mom's gone and that though, yeah. I don't cry about him as much anymore, but they're still very hurtful. But also talking about is honoring and it's good for me and it's healing in a major way. And, and those are those things that, you know, I wish that, yeah, I think that's why another one of my missions or just to like blow the cap off of, of what grief is with other people and talk about it because I like, people need to know like, one, this is one, it's hurtful when you respond that way and to like, this is, this is, it is tough and, and that's okay for it to be tough and it will always be tough. Um, and so, and but you just kind of, one day they'll deal with it and then they will understand. Um, and they're lucky that they don't yet, but don't be mean to us that are grieving. Kat Bonner: 52:55 Yeah. You're so right. I mean, I just sometimes I don't even know what to say when I meet these people and I wish our world wasn't so uncomfortable talking about grief and death because when you are born that is the start of how long like it will be until you die. And that's like I said, I'm not a negative Nancy, but like depth is a part of life and I don't think people realize that when they're living, which I mean to each their own, but like it's just sad and it breaks my heart how uncomfortable the world is talking about death. And I'm like, no, like it's, that's why, that's why when people experience death, it rocks their world because they act like it can never happen. Right. It doesn't exist. And I'm like, and I don't know. And I guess I was Kinda sorta like that. Kat Bonner: 53:50 I mean maybe do, they just don't think about it, but like it's just so important to talk about when you're living. I mean like, I'm like, don't think it's ever too young. I'm like, okay, I have a will. Like I'm not thinking I'm going to die today. You, but like in all actuality, like if you have assets and get a will, I mean it sounds, it sounds so silly, but like unless you want to dye it testate or intestate or whatever, I don't even know the crick purposes, but unless you want your assets to go to the state, like, you know, like I don't want that goes the state. Like I do what I want, I want them to be done with it. So yeah, I'm getting on a tangent now, but I mean, yeah, it's just important. So is there anything that like you want to leave with the listeners that just is on your heart or it can be anything about anything. It doesn't really matter. Tashina Fritz: 54:51 You know, the one thing I think that with just navigation of grief as well as just working with women is we don't hear a lot that we are, we have purpose and we are enough. And that even if you have this depth of grief that takes you where you feel like you can't put one foot in front of the other, you can and believe in yourself that you can. And if you can't do it in your own, cool, ask for help for somebody to take those steps with you and hold your hand because you are not alone in it. And don't hide away in your grief. Don't keep it hidden within your heart and inside. Let it out because you know what the world does need to know and you've matter and enough that there will be somebody to walk alongside you with it and don't believe that lie that you're not worth it. Kat Bonner: 55:59 Okay. I'm just gonna sit like following Paul from and I was like, I'm just going to sit here and just let that sink in. Let that resonate. I love that you completely just took the words out of my mouth and I'm glad that you were able to pay them. So thank you so, so much. I love getting this. Speaker 3: 56:23 Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Anytime I get to talk about that good. I'm like, well maybe I'm just, it isn't it always, it always does. You know? Cause like I, I've kind of talked to that is it's, it's a way that I can honor my mom and that is, that is healing. And that is powerful because she was great. And so why hide it away? Let's still talk about her because yeah, she might not be living, but she's living inside of me and I can keep that Kat Bonner: 56:55 exactly why you keep your mom alive by sharing her story and by sharing your story. Period. Speaker 3: 57:01 Yeah. Kat Bonner: 57:03 Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have three favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know the I have a Facebook Group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Finally had to katbonner.com/podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Kat Bonner: 57:55 This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.

How To Manage Big Milestones After Losing Your Mom – with Guest Christie Fiori Welcome to this episode of Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. We’re joined by blogger Christie Fiori, of the blog Healing Through Grief with Christie Lynn, who shares her story of losing her mom and how she’s coping with her loss. If you’re a daughter who has lost your mom, or you know someone else who is going through it, this episode shines light onto a dark topic and opens the lines of communication for those who are dealing with grieving their mom. What We’re Talking About This episode is full of Christie’s wisdom that she’s found after going through her own healing process. Listen along as we touch on these topics: Stages of Grief For Christie, her sense of loss kicked in while her mom was still alive and battling cancer. She saw her dad go through a very different process and she shares her own journey in realizing that everyone has their own way of dealing with the stages of grief. Dealing With Milestones Weddings, babies, graduation, even starting a new job are all situations that bring grief flooding back. Christie tells us about her experience of getting through life's big moments without her mom. Accepting Reality There’s no way around it – life goes on without mom, whether you want it to be that way or not. Christie’s advice shows us how we can accept the new normal – life without mom. Self-Expression For Christie, blogging about her grief was therapeutic and gave her a chance to share her story with others. The reaction from the online community was not at all what she expected. Listen along for Christie’s moving story and advice for anyone who is dealing with the tragic experience of losing your mom. You can also follow her on Facebook and Instagram in the links below, and as always, follow the podcast’s Facebook and Instagram, and click to subscribe. https://m.facebook.com/christielynnnnn/
https://www.instagram.com/healingthroughgrief/ https://www.facebook.com/katgriefcoach https://www.facebook.com/groups/lifeafterlosingmom
 https://www.instagram.com/katgriefcoach/ Transcription: Speaker 1: 00:00 And I think until you accept it, you're not able to even start healing. Speaker 2: 00:04 You're listening to life after losing mom with me, Kat Bonner. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their mom and discover the exact coping strategies that you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode of life after losing mom. Subscribe today. More information can be found at katbonner.com/podcast and if you'd like to join a group of like-minded women, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Speaker 1: 00:31 All right. Um, so when I was in college or freshman in college, my mom got diagnosed with cancer. It was super, super set in. Um, one day she came downstairs and the whole right side of her body was numb. Um, they sent her to the hospital and it turns out she had metastatic melanoma and it had already spread everywhere. So basically one day my life was completely normal. The next, um, it was changed completely. Um, she got pretty sick pretty fast. She had a few months that we're okay. Um, but I mean cancer is cancer and she really wasn't doing all that great any of the time. I'm in about seven months. Exactly. From the time that she was diagnosed, she died. Speaker 2: 01:15 Wow. Okay. Sorry. I want to make sure you were done. I was thinking, Speaker 1: 01:18 thinking about if I wanted to add more Speaker 2: 01:22 it's okay. Yeah, there's, I mean all there really is to that. Um, I know that you are pretty open on your blog about, you know, how your mom pass and that sort of thing, like the type of cancer and if I remember correctly it was melanoma. So was your mom like attaining bed user? If you don't mind me asking, like did she get out in the sun a lot? Yeah. Speaker 1: 01:46 So my mom was actually like the picture of melanoma, um, before she got sick. Like it actually would be a joke. Like I would say like melanoma must not exist because if it did you would have it. And that sounds so stupid now thinking back, but like we had a tanning bed in our house. Like, my mom was a Tan Aholic. Um, in the summer she was outside all of the time. She loved being Tan. Like people used to joke like, oh my God, you and your mom must not even be the same race. Cause like she was like a dark brown all the time. Like she loved being Tan. She thought she liked being burnt. She'd lay outside until she was burned because she knew it would turn to tan in the winter. She'd be in the tanning bed all the time. Um, she actually had melanoma removed from her arm years and years prior that my parents just never even told me about, cause I was young and it wasn't supposed to be anything serious. She was supposed to get it removed and that was it. But apparently it wasn't it in that whole time, it may have been continuing to spread elsewhere and that's when she got diagnosed two years later. Speaker 2: 02:49 Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny because I think too, like you live up north and I don't, I hear about, you know, that seasonal affective disorder thing and you know, I don't know if your mom had that, but it's just crazy to think how, you know, something that seems so small as melanoma can really not be small. You know? I mean it just goes to show to take everything really seriously. So I guess, you know, you kind of like sort of joked about it per se as you were younger, but was that thought ever in the back of your mind? Like, seriously that your mom might get skin cancer? Speaker 1: 03:34 I mean, I guess like you just never think something like that's gonna happen to you. And I never really knew. Like people always, like we'll say, had said to me when my mom was sick, like, oh, it's just skin cancer, but like it's not. And to me that's always what I thought. Like, yeah, even if she did get skin cancer, skin cancer, so we'll get it removed and she'd be fine. So nothing serious really ever crossed my mind because until my mom got sick, I didn't even know metastatic melanoma was a thing. I didn't even know people were dying. There was a version of skin cancer or dying from like, that was all completely new to me. Like me and my dad were doing research online after she got diagnosed and we had had no clue that that was even a thing. Speaker 2: 04:12 Wow. Yeah. I mean, I guess it definitely, like I, you know, you pointed out where you never really think that it's going to happen to you, but I guess it just goes to show how, I don't know if serious anything can be. So how do, I mean, I'm assuming now you probably hae all tanning beds, um, has your view on that really changed because you're the, I think you're pretty fair skin too, if I Speaker 1: 04:40 yeah. Yeah. So actually before all of this, like I was a Tanner too. Um, I, my mom would drive me to the tanning salon. Um, I tanned in the winter all the time. I hated being pale too. In the summer I would obviously burned pretty easily because I'm very light skinned. Um, now like people know to not even mention the word chanting better around me. Like it makes me so angry. I can't even fathom why people would do it after, especially after hearing my mom's story and like what we went through. But then I guess part of me has to understand that I never thought it would happen to me, so why should anybody else think it's going to happen to them? Um, but it does make me really mad. Speaker 2: 05:21 Yeah. I personally despise tanning beds. I think they're like just, I mean I'm all for, you know, loving the skin you're in. I know it sounds really cliche and stupid, but especially knowing if you're like already susceptible to, you know, getting some type of skin cancer or skin ailment or I don't know anything crazy like that. I'm not doctor, but I'm like, okay, I'm really not. I already know I'm like super white so I'm definitely not going to do this. Um, right. So would you say you like, what's the court word? Cod and like had any anticipatory grief when your mom got sick or was it all just kind of too fast? Too furious. Speaker 3: 06:07 Okay. Speaker 1: 06:07 Oh yeah. So it's interesting because I think me and my dad handles it really different and I think that I was grieving my mom while she was sick. Um, I think I saw it a lot. I'm definitely like a glass half empty kind of person. Like I always prepare for the worst, whereas my dad's super optimistic and always is thinking like the best case scenario of everything. And I spent a lot of time, my mom being sick, like reading up, like what, what it's like when someone starts to die or like the symptoms that somebody is dying or all the statistics of how long people live with metastatic melanoma. Whereas I think when my mom died, my dad was like, oh my God, like this is it, it's done. Whereas I had been getting to that point and really going through [inaudible] grief for a long time. Speaker 1: 06:53 Um, because in my head somewhere it was, I had already lost my mom. Like so much was changing about her that even though like of course I would have loved for her to be the miracle, it's hard. I don't really think that way. I kind of more of a, I don't wanna say a rational thinker, but I just, in my head I knew that this was going to be the outcome whether I want it to be or not. So I think that that actually helped me in my grief process more so because I was already months ahead of the game when my mom died. Speaker 2: 07:23 Yeah. I, I mean I like how you mentioned that it's as hard because in a way, man, you know, you can never really prepare yourself for this, but almost, and I would never really have recommend people to be a glass half empty kind of person. But sometimes you do have to be realistic. Right. And I could definitely see how that was very possible, you know, in your situation. All right. So would you say like based on this conversation, I'm thinking like, I guess, right, like when your mom was sick, like the hardest part was like maybe realizing that she was gonna pass, but like, you know, after that like since she's been gone, has the way she gone, you know, really been hard for you or do you got to mask ink? Speaker 3: 08:24 Yeah. Speaker 2: 08:25 Like what has been like you chagas you struggled with, you know, when she was sick, like struggled with actually like her being sick and the realization that this is real. But is that still, you know, one of the hardest parts of your grief process or is it had just spend like completely transformative? I think, Speaker 1: 08:44 um, like while she was sick, what was, it was super hard in the sense that everything we would do, I would have in the back of my mind like this is the last time we're going to do this. Even I didn't actually want that to happen. And I had also in another part of my mind like, okay, maybe, maybe she will live a little longer. Like, maybe we will be another time we do this. But that was always something that I was thinking of and that was in my head during those times. But then after she died it was wow, that really was the last time. And each new thing that happened became then like the first without my mom. So like one, they kind of like, it blends together in a way. I was grieving her when she was still there when it was the last time I was getting to do those things, even though I was in the moment with her. But then as time has gone on and it was the first time I had to have a mother's Day without her holiday, without her go on a vacation without her, it was a whole new heart, like compared to like at least those times where I knew it was the last one. I still at least had that last one. Do you know what I mean? Speaker 2: 09:47 Yeah. That definitely makes perfect sense. So kind of seeming like, you know, milestones have been a big struggle with just, I mean, even when your mom was sick, you kind of prepared yourself, it seemed like for a being the last so and so with her and you can kind of sort of mentally like prepare yourself for that. But when they're gone it's like, how the heck do I do this? Speaker 1: 10:13 Right, right. Like in my head I had thought I had it all. Like I was figuring it out as I went. And then when it actually came down to it and new things that happened out there, it really was like a whole new version of grief. Like although I did some grieving while she was alive, it was nothing compared to how you grieve after your mom's died. Speaker 2: 10:33 Yeah, 100%. Um, so is there like a certain milestone that you have really struggled with? I mean, Mother's Day is mother's Day, so I don't really consider that. Speaker 1: 10:48 Right. So that's just the worst day. Speaker 2: 10:51 Oh, pretty much. But is there like a certain like, I dunno, like maybe like graduation. I don't think you're married or have kids. So that's, you know, not necessarily relevant but yeah, even like the one that was after marriage. Yeah, when Speaker 1: 11:04 I graduated Undergrad or Grad School. But undergrad was harder obviously cause it was the first really big thing and my mom got sick and died when I was in college and there was a point where I didn't even think I would finish college after that. Like that was the last thing on my mind and I still did graduate in four years. So that was like such a big deal just because not only like everybody in the world was like, oh my God, how did you do that? Like how have you managed to get through this? But it was the first big thing without her. And I think it was even harder because it was the first time I saw my dad express any kind of emotion that it was the first thing of mine that he was going through without her. So on a day that like we should have been so happy, like his daughter's graduating college, I'm graduating college, we were like, we couldn't be the same kind of happy because that person was missing that we should be sharing it with. And who started that kind of journey with us since she was alive when I started college, but not when I finished. Speaker 2: 12:04 Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. So you said yeah, it was your freshman year. I believe we that path yet Speaker 1: 12:10 sick my freshman year and then she died the fall of my sophomore year. Speaker 2: 12:14 Okay. So definitely. Wow. So we'll still, you know, pretty fresh when you graduated college too. And I feel like we're Undergrad is always harder than Grad school. I mean, I haven't gotten my master's, but just because you like kind of have more of a choice when it comes to Undergrad and masters, you're just like, all right, I'm going to go where I get accepted at this point. So the parents just seem to be like more involved with that. Speaker 1: 12:42 Right. And that's always the first big so of like being an adult. Speaker 2: 12:46 Yeah. And not to mention too, I mean undergrad cubs for Grad schools. So if your mom passes when you're an Undergrad, that's going to be like the first graduation feet without her. Um, so it just all kind, it's like, all right, you know, I made it through Undergrad graduation. Like when it comes time to get a master's or whatever, like the next one should be pretty like, I'll welcome the park compared to this one. Speaker 1: 13:13 Right. Speaker 2: 13:14 So, okay. Well I like that you definitely brought up graduation. Um, how did you like cope with, I guess just not just milestones in general. I mean not just, sorry, graduation specifically, but just in milestones in general, you know, and not having your mom. I think that's just something that a lot of women, I know that I've struggled with it. So when you like honor her, I guess, Speaker 1: 13:41 I think it's one of those things that like you can I say it all, I read about it all the time. At least regular days or regular days. Like you have good days, you have bad days, you go exit as time goes on and you go, you have less bad days and it does seem to get easier as you start to adjust to this new reality. Um, but milestones are one of those things that like always bring it back to the center of your mind. Like you could have had a good day, six months straight and then all of a sudden you started a new job or you graduate or something, something has little at something little or something as big as you're getting engaged or you're going to get married. Like those things are never going to be as happy as they were. For somebody who hasn't been through all of that, especially as like a daughter with a mom, like your mom plays such a huge role in really everything in your life that I think that that's something that just never truly will get easier. So I think just finding a way to try to incorporate her into everything. Like I had pictures of her on my graduation cap or like when I get married. I'm sure I will find plenty of ways to incorporate her into that too. But it's, I think it's just important to accept that never gonna be normal for someone who's gone through something like that at a way younger age than they should and still has all those milestones left. Like it's just never going to be. Speaker 2: 15:01 Yeah, you're very right. Um, and I mean it's definitely important to find ways to honor her. And I mean that's, you know, very relative to the person. But I think too, just finding that like little something, it's crazy how that in itself is like April to help you grieve and to help you cope with, you know, these milestones. And like I said, I'm sure having a wedding and having children is completely different with doctor mom because that's a very like mother daughter centered, you know, experience. But milestones are still milestones to a certain extent at the end of the day. And it's just, it's definitely important to just try to, I mean, mind over matter. I know it sounds really stupid, but like doing whatever you can, having like a positive outlook and not like dwelling that, you know, letting it, you know, ruin your milestone. Like even if it's something, I mean I guess the milestones can be bad or you know, negative but right, Speaker 1: 16:15 right. And that's a whole nother, another issue. Speaker 2: 16:18 Exactly. But just making the effort and being intentional about like trying to just make it one that is memorable and positive and I think I mean milestones or you know, we're going to happen for the rest of your life, but I do think that it becomes less of a chore and like you have to try less to be positive because you just kind of are because you're used to it as you go through milestones. Speaker 1: 16:47 Right. I think the biggest thing I could do, like really for anyone is you have to just accept that this is your reality and like I think that sometimes that comes off harsh when I say that to people and people like give me that like, like field start feeling bad for me. And it's like, okay, I get it. You feel bad for me? You can't imagine what I'm going through, which is my least favorite phrase because I would never have imagined at either. And what other choice do you have? And I find myself saying lets people all the time, but the point is is your life is going to go on whether you want it to the way it is or not. Like that's what it is. So there's two options. You can either accept it and try to make the best of it or you could let it just ruin everything. So I think the more and more of accepting that, yeah, this sucks and it's not fair. And I don't know why it had to be my family, but at the end of the day like this is my life. Speaker 2: 17:39 Oh my gosh, you're my soul sister. I love this. It's so true though. And like especially, I mean I guess I, I don't even, I couldn't even count how many milestones I've been through it that my mom like, I don't really think that's relevant. But I mean eventually and I feel like to is with the Undergrad, like or even graduating college, they're normally pretty close to mother's Day and you're like, oh great, Oh la, this is awful. Right. But just really separating like the two or even, I dunno, just like, yeah, having that mindset and realizing that like, you know, this is the way that it's going to be. Like, especially when it comes to milestones like okay, I'm not going to have my mom here for this and like you know that in advance, so what am I going to do about it? I mean, Speaker 1: 18:36 right. And that's, and that's not being said that's ever going to be easy, but I feel like for the rest of my life these things are always going to be hard and I'm always going to have my little pity party beforehand afterwards. Like that's all part of it. But you have to like differential. Exactly. All the lines somewhere of like, am I going to let this destroy me in ruin this moment or am I going to try to say, look at how far I've come since my mom died. Like, my mom would be so proud. This is awesome. Speaker 2: 19:06 Yeah, and I think it's very important to, like you said, to realize like how proud your mom would be a view because we often times at least I have, you know, oftentimes forgotten that and just thought about like, oh, like I wish she could be here, Yada Yada, Yada. But I mean like people should be proud of themselves for whatever milestone they're going through. Like just to get to that milestone regardless if they had to really do anything to get to the milestone. I mean, you made it through another day in the life of grieving the loss of your mom. I mean that's something still pretty commendable. So regardless of what it is, it's definitely something, I mean, I'm bad about it too, but it's stuff that's been like I need to instill in my brain, hey, like my mom should be proud of me or my mom is proud of me. I should be proud of me. So let's make this a good milestone despite the situation. And then eventually it just gets easier. You know? It's like, I mean, you kind of have to have the same mindset like each time one of them arises. So hopefully it would become, you know, more second nature. It's still at, and I hate the word easy because I wouldn't say like not having your mom gets easier but you just get more use to it so that it's easier, if that makes sense. Speaker 1: 20:40 Yeah. No, you just started to adjust to your new normal I think. Speaker 2: 20:45 Yeah, very much so. So facet of it. I think managing the grief, it's gets easier as you manage it, right. You go through life because that just kind of the nature of the beast. Um, so when you were mentioning like, you know, getting married or having children, have you thought about ways that you would, you know, honor your mom or cope with those days? Like I'm personally a terrified to ever get married or have kids cause I don't know how I'm going to do without my mom and I know that's not the right mindset, but Speaker 1: 21:22 no, you're right. Somebody actually answer, ask me that question. Um, on a question answer I did on my Instagram a few weeks back and more so like, do you think you'll ever get married because I can't even imagine getting married. And I started thinking about it and I'm like, you know, there's a reason why I'm the way I am. And I always say like, I'm in no rush to get married. Like I'll get married one day maybe or not like I'm okay if I don't have kids. And like I never really, I wasn't like that when my mom was alive. Like I definitely always saw myself like at least getting married and having like a kid or something. But like now it's so hard for me to even wrap my head around that. Like I'm at the age where my friends have started to get married and have kids are here like a few here and there. Speaker 1: 22:07 But like I've been in weddings and my cousins are getting married and having babies and I'm watching them all do it with their moms. And I'm like, Holy Shit, what am I supposed to do? Like my dad is great. Like, literally, he's the best, but I, I can't even like get through a conversation with my aunt who I'm super close with helping her plan my cousin's wedding without me like wanting to throw a tantrum and screen because it's just like, I can't even imagine like not having my mom to do that. So it's hard for me to even get there and picture what that day would be like because I don't even know, like, again, even try to fathom doing it. Speaker 4: 22:45 Yeah. Speaker 2: 22:46 Oh my God. I'm like, so glad you mentioned that. I feel so much less alone and it gets weird. Like I'll look on Pinterest though, you know, ways to honor your mom at your wedding. And it seems so easy. And I have, you know, this crazy idea, like I basically have my dream wedding and plan that probably either never going to happen in nonexistent. I'm like, Oh yeah, like I'm going to sing a song for my mom. Like I'm gonna write one. I don't know, just something super crazy. But when it boils down to it, like no matter where I'm at in my grief, like a mom, if I'm in the best place, like ever, there is no way, I don't think I would ever be able to like emotionally handle that. And that is the day that I supposed to bring such joy and oh boy, how to make that joyful will be very interesting. Right? And if the time comes, but ah, just like, I don't know dude. Speaker 1: 23:49 Right. And maybe if you're, when, if I was in that situation and close to the point where I was going to be getting married and maybe it would be different and maybe just because I'm nowhere near that place in my life, I think that way. But I've watched, I've been in three weddings now, all of which their mom's played a big role in everything leading up to the wedding. And, but then I watched my cousin got married without her dad and how, how hard that was in a whole way. So, I don't know if I could say like one loss is worse than the other, but I just think like in my reality, it's hard for me to imagine doing it as all I know. Speaker 2: 24:25 Yeah, absolutely. Oh my word. I get emotional life just at weddings in general. Yeah, me too. I hate that I'm not even super close with. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, if I'm emotional at a wedding of like a family friend that I see once a year, like Oh my word and, and I'm not saying I wish that like, you know, I had been closer to those like milestones in my life when my mom passed, but I feel like, and I could be wrong, but like for a lot of us who were, you know, were maybe younger, I'm like, if our mom passed closer to those times, like if I was already engaged, like my mom had passed, I feel like I would just be so focused. Like I would've been so focused to own the wedding that it might not have affected me that much. And that could be very wrong, you know? But that's just the way that I think about it. Like since it's been years since my mom passed and I'm already like on the road to healing like, uh, weddings, not anywhere in my brain. Speaker 2: 25:42 I was about to say, okay, that definitely makes sense. Um, and have a kids, Oh my word, I'm not even gonna go there. Uh, yeah, that, that needs episode. Exactly. I'm like, Oh, don't even know if I want to have children for reasons I'm not going to get into. But especially having, oh gosh, having kids about your mom, that just sounds really, really, really terrible. So I hope one day, like I can get out of that mindset almost because I definitely think it is a mindset. But yeah, and like you said, you know, I was never this way either before I lost my mom and I don't like, you know, to blame her death on the things that I believe. But at the end of the day, like me not wanting to get married and me not wanting to have kids, I really think manifested itself from losing my mom. Speaker 2: 26:39 Right. And that's something, you know, important to acknowledge that obviously a lot of women don't understand, but I'm not even going to bring that voice into this, but a lot of men especially to understand that. So I'm just like, all right dude, like you know, it is what it is. But having, I don't know, I just hope, you know, like our mindsets and just the mindset of people, you know who feel this way too. I'm not saying it's a bad thing if like we feel this way forever, but I hope it doesn't turn into something bad and I don't really know how to like control that to where you know, me not wanting to get married becomes like damaging. And I'm like talking myself out of like getting married when I could very well be dating somebody who I could be married to. Does that make sense? Like I have no idea where that one is. What are your thoughts on that? I guess I just liked it Speaker 1: 27:50 that and when you get to that point, maybe it'll be different. And I mean, and maybe things have changed and if I do get married, maybe it's not that I'm going to have a big elaborate traditional wedding. Maybe, um, maybe you just need, we just need to work for whatever version of your own, create your own version of that day. Not maybe not what was always in your head because that's just too much about them without your mom. But you could still do that, be happy, be married, have a light, but you maybe can have your own version of that. Speaker 2: 28:24 Yeah, that's very true. Um, so let's see where milestones, like going through mouse was doctor mom, what really piqued your interest in blogging? Click. When did you start that? Speaker 5: 28:42 So it was like a total accident. Um, I was in a relationship for quite a while after my mom and I broke up. My mom and I broke up after my mom died. We broke up. Um, maybe a couple of years later, I don't even know all the years start to blend together. Speaker 2: 28:58 That's what you were dating a guy and broke up. Speaker 5: 29:01 Yeah. So when we broke up, it was a few years after my mom died. It was terrible breakup, super unhealthy, um, uh, an unhealthy relationship. Um, terrible breakup. Like I was just a hot mess. And that was my first real version of grief after my mom died. Like it was losing this other person who was so important in my life after my mind that had filled so many of those voids for me in different ways. And Speaker 1: 29:27 okay, Speaker 5: 29:27 just took, filled, spilled so much of that. So I would just in a really, really bad place and didn't know what to do with myself. And I was scrolling through Facebook one day and I saw an ad for this site, um, pucker mob. I don't know if you heard of it. It's very started blogging years and years ago. A pucker mob. Yes. So, oh yeah, there was an ad for them, like, um, like that you could just share your posts and get them published on this site and whatever, whatever. And I was like, I'm going to write something about my mom dying. Like I always liked to write and I wrote, I wrote this blog post, I post or I shared it with them, they posted it to their page, I shared it on Facebook and I remember I went downstairs to my dad and I was like, I just wrote this blog for this site called pucker mob, like, and I'm telling you about it. Speaker 5: 30:17 And he's like, what? Like he did, what's a blog like? I'm like, no, like read it. Like tell me what you think. And he was like, wow, that's really good. But like people are going to see that. And I'm like, I dunno, I dunno, but like I felt so good doing it. So I started writing then what it was like to like go through a breakup without my mom and then what it was like to date without my mom. And I started like channeling my breakup to losing my mom and writing. And one day I woke up in this page on Facebook had shared my article who had like 200,000 followers and all of a sudden like thousands of people were reading my article and commenting on it. And sharing it. And I'm like, oh my God, Holy Shit. Like people actually care about what I have to say. Speaker 5: 30:58 And one thing led to another, I made this Facebook page, it started off as just like my name and I would link it at the bottom of blog posts and people would like it. And then next thing I know, there's thousands of people who are reading my writing and people messaging me from all over the world. And I started, I ended up making my own website. We're actually, um, we know nobody liked rights were pucker mob anymore. There's actually a lot of controversy with them then trying to steal our work and um, use it without our names on it and all sorts of stuff that I won't even get into. So that's when I broke out and wrote my own page. I made my own blog page and it's just really just taken off from there and become like the greatest coping mechanism ever. Um, people, I get messages every day like how people are thanking me for how much I helped them and save their life. And like that's literally what my blog has done for me. So it's just a bonus that I'm helping other people. Like it's, it's now it's become so great to see that I can help other people, but I really started it just to help myself through like a difficult time and find a distraction and outlet. Speaker 2: 32:07 That's so funny. I love it. I feel like a lot of these things do happen by accident and like it's kind of funny cause the breakup almost was you know, a milestone and you go through something Super, Oh yeah, let's say detrimental like Speaker 5: 32:21 the bad milestones, like hard. Then you have to go through without your mom, which are like, there's no way to find positivity that's just like an absolute double negative. Absolutely. But if that didn't happen now I don't know if I would say I would never have written anything but maybe I wouldn't have and maybe that was something that needed, I needed to hit a rock bottom and then find this outlet that's become like such a huge part of my life and something. Then this community I've created that I honestly don't even know how has become, I just hit, um, 20,000 likes on Facebook the other day and night was like, it blows my mind at 20,000 people want to read what I have to write and it actually helps them. Oh my God, that was not exactly, Speaker 2: 33:08 I mean, it's really crazy to think too that there's like 20,000 women. Well, I would think that they're, you know, or 20,000 women who are in our positions. I'm like, oh, okay. Like I thought I was so alone when this happened, but I'm so hot. I mean, granted in my immediate friend group, yeah, it was probably alone, but let's be honest. Right? Even just from the time that like I was in high school when they're going off to college, I mean I could count on two hands literally in four years how many girls that I went to college with who either lost a mom or I lost a dad while they were in college and I was just like a, my mind is blown. I mean I went to an all women's college so that was kind of a given, but still it just like, and I making something you didn't, Speaker 5: 33:54 you never would have really I think noticed if you didn't go through it. Like I now notice like people who I went to high school with her, I went to college, I'll see it on Facebook and I'll reach out and send them a message. But like if my mom hadn't died, like I don't think that that would've been something that phased me. Like how many people actually go through this? And you're right, my blog is a perfect example and there might be people of all different ages, like I don't know how many of those people lost their mom young. But the point is is there's a lot of people out there who are still struggling with that same loss. Whereas in our own world and our own friend group, like in my community, like I was the girl that's mom died. Like everyone's friends, parents, I'd walk into their house and for years they look at me with that. Like, oh my God, I feel so bad for you face that I just can't stand. But like that's like who we were in our little worlds and like from my little town, not a ton of people had gone through something like that. But in the grand scheme of things, so many people do. Speaker 2: 34:56 Yeah, absolutely. And like, I dunno, just to think that you know, you're able to help people who might not think that, you know, they might've been in your shoes, you know, not know anybody who has been through the same thing. Like being a small town in essence. Speaker 5: 35:13 He's like, I get messages like that all the time. Like I had no idea that there were this many people who could follow a page that have all been through this. Like I literally thought I had no one in there is all these people commenting on your posts that are saying the same thing as me and you're writing the thoughts in my head and it's, it's cool. Like it really is. Speaker 2: 35:34 Yeah. I had like, it's unfathomable. I mean to, and to think that there's like, they think the same thing and they feel the same way and not everybody is able to definitely, you know, put their feelings out there the way that you are and everybody is able to, you know, write about it and speak about it. And it's almost like, okay, seeing somebody who has found their outlet and s found, you know, some source of healing, you know, wherever, however, however you know, that was, it's like, okay, you know, it makes me want to go out there and do it too, regardless of, you know, how I do it and you see that it really is possible, right. Because I love you just pause. Um, because it's like how, I mean, it's so easy to get stuck, you know, in your way isn't, I know to, you know, when you go through milestones or you know, those bad things where you wish your mom was there at the end of the day, it's still brings your grief back and it's still, it's like, okay, just a constant reminder. You know that your mom isn't there and it just goes to show sometimes, you know you have to hit rock bottom, you have to go through something pretty bad without your mom, for you to start your healing process. And I know that's not an easy thing to realize but things much worse than what they are. Speaker 2: 37:15 You're right. And it's like things weren't really that bad. Well I guess when bad things happen it's like it's not the bad thing that happened. It's just so bad because it reminded me so much that my mom is not here to help me through it. Speaker 1: 37:34 Right. And something that you always had turned to your mom for in the past. I think that was exactly, Speaker 2: 37:41 but once you get through that it's like, okay I got through this. I can go ahead and I can get through anything. Right. So it's, do you find yourself like just blogging when you know you like want to blog or when you feel called to like stare like a schedule? I mean I feel like it's just hard cause grief in general is so like unpredictable, Speaker 1: 38:10 right? Greif has definitely not on the schedule, which his why. Um, my blogs are all over the place. Like one, one week you'll see I broke five times and then I won't write for three weeks and I'll just like reshare older posts here and there. But like when I get an idea like they come whenever, um, something, so smaller conversation with somebody or conversation I have with a patient at work, like triggers Speaker 5: 38:36 an idea of something I want to write about and I will just put a note in my phone and then as soon as I can get to a computer or at least just type up a draft in my notepad, I do. Um, it happens a lot when I'm working out. Um, when I'm meeting with a patient at work, um, a lot of inopportune times that my brain's working, but I can't like sit down and write right at that moment. So I always just have to like make a note of it and then go back and try to like revisit those feelings. But no, I definitely never plan what I'm going to write. It just whenever something comes to my head, Speaker 2: 39:09 I think that's important because it literally just goes to show how like you kept playing grief. I mean, I know people probably know that, but to actually have like a platform centered around grief and it's just like, okay, today I'm going to write about grief is very much so, you know, saying what's on your mind and saying how you feel, you know, Yada Yada Yada. Speaker 5: 39:33 Right. And so it wasn't happening right. When you, um, think of it like you'd be doing it, like it wouldn't be as authentic. It wouldn't like when I write, I just write as like what I'm thinking about at that moment. If you said to me, hey, write about this, I could do it, but it wouldn't be the same because it wouldn't be something I was feeling at that time. Speaker 2: 39:54 Exactly. And people would be definitely be able to tell. Um, and that's not really going to help people in their grief process. I mean, come on, it's just going to be like stage, so, Speaker 5: 40:06 right. So I've always from the beginning like made it a point to like just be super authentic. Like I will write posts when I'm, I've had a terrible week and that's why I haven't wrote or like to really just show everybody that I'm human. Like sure I'm a decent writer and people like to read what I write and I have this website and stuff now. But that doesn't mean that there's anything like nice about grief. Like it's all super real feelings and I wrote about the other stuff I go through outside of grief and how it all kind of turns back because the reality is like this is my life, this is your life, this is all of these people's lives and it's not pretty. It's easy. So I'm not going to try to sugarcoat it and make it seem like it is. Speaker 2: 40:54 Exactly. That's 100% the worst thing you can do. So let's see. I guess my last question, you know about blogging that I could ask, when you first started off to do, find it like hard, I guess to put your thoughts on paper or did you find that it took you a long time to do that? You know, has it gotten easier in that sense as time has gone on? Speaker 5: 41:24 Yeah, so writing has always been like my natural way of communicating. Um, I've always written, well, I've always journaled after my mom died, I journaled a lot Speaker 1: 41:34 after me and my ex broke up. I journaled a lot, so I always kind of used writing. I just never did it in a blog sense. I've always been able to like articulate words together, better writing than I am talking. I can just, I just, I've always expressed myself better writing, so it comes so naturally. Like I get an idea and I could write my own the whole blog posts in five minutes and go back and read it and be like, Holy Shit, where did that come from? Because it just, it just comes out. Like I, I was trying to explain all of those feelings talking. You would say, what did you just say? Like it would make no sense just like a bunch of jumble in my head, but it comes out when I write. Speaker 2: 42:12 Yeah. And that's, that's very important I think for people to like, you know, as they're figuring out what their outlet is, you know, and their grief journey or just figuring out ways, I guess to really express emotions. I think when people come, like when they think about that, they're like, oh, like there's only writing or talking. And I'm like, no, there's definitely a whole bunch of, you know, other creative ways you can do that. So definitely I've definitely recommended people like, Hey, pick something that comes naturally to you and you know, do people tend to like realize it, you know, pretty quickly because if it comes natural to you, it won't be like hard. At least the actual action won't be hard. Like actually writing for you isn't a huge feat. So I feel like that almost makes writing about grief less difficult because you're good at writing, Speaker 1: 43:11 right? Yeah, no, it's super therapeutic. There's nothing that's like a task about, if it was, I wouldn't do it. I mean, exactly. I enjoy it. It helps me, it helps other people. It's honestly just like a win win. Speaker 2: 43:24 I'm so glad you found that. Great. Um, so most people probably know like where are you like active on Instagram, you know, your Facebook groups. Do you just post your blog posts to there? Speaker 1: 43:38 So I recently made an Instagram attached to my blog. Um, I'm working on developing its healing underscore through grief. Um, cause my page is healing through grief with Christie. Um, I post a lot on my Chrissy Lynn Facebook page, but I also run the Facebook page. That's, I am a motherless daughter. Um, that's mine. And then, Speaker 2: 44:01 oh, the, I'm a motherless daughter is like the one that you created. I have to look that up. There's so many of those. Speaker 1: 44:07 Yeah. There are daughters. And then things, the one that's my mom is in heaven, a girl. Um, Danielle started and now me and another blogger, uh, run the page with her. So I guess I kind of am involved in three pages on Facebook, mine plus two others. And then I have an Instagram too. Speaker 2: 44:30 Yeah, that's awesome. I'll put that, um, Speaker 5: 44:32 in the show notes, I know a lot of like just from being active in, you know, the community and I bought, maybe community is the wrong word, but being active in like this, the same women you know, that are in our shoes. I see a lot of like them share, you know, your blogs and the group and it totally just dawned on me when I'm reading your blogs, like it says like the resources for, you know, losing a mom or whatever. Um, it said like those Facebook pages and I've totally should have realized that. Like you created those and I'm sure, well you are mine, a few or some just ones I found motherless daughters on Facebook is my favorite. It has like a million bajillion people who follow it. Um, oh yeah. I think every mother daughter on the planet follows that page. Um, and then there's another one. I link all sorts of things. I find people will send me one sometimes like, Hey, can you share this? Um, I make sure I like it first because I'm not just going to share anything. I want to make sure it's beneficial to people. But yeah, there's links to all sorts of stuff. Speaker 2: 45:38 Oh, cool. Well I will definitely include that. Um, is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners that can just be anything related to losing your mom or grief related? Speaker 5: 45:54 I think we've covered all, all the big stuff. Speaker 2: 45:58 Um, so his mindset, definitely something that you've realized it's important. I guess not maybe mine says the wrong word, but like realization of your regality that seemed to be the whole like, you know, backbone of this episode conversation. Speaker 5: 46:17 Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think, um, for a long time, I mean, I did it, I think everyone's guilty of doing it. Like you live in a lot of denial that you haven't accepted your reality. And I did a lot of that for quite awhile before I got to a place where I was ready to fully accept it. And I think until you accept it, you're not able to even start healing. You don't, maybe you start grieving when that person dies, but I don't think you actually start to heal until you have fully accepted it. And for me that was when I was able to finally write about it and put it on a piece of paper, um, and show it to other people on. It was when I finally decided to go to therapy. It was when I decided to finally sit, like tell people my story and reach out to other people who had lost a parent. I think for awhile it was like, yeah, I was the girl without a mom. But I was doing just not so great coping mechanisms to deal with it and not addressing what was important. And I think until you address what's important, you can't fully even start to even try to heal. You're just grieving. You're not healing, which is why my page is called the landing through Greece. Speaker 2: 47:25 That's so important because people don't really realize like you can heal through this and they're two separate things that actually meshed together. But it's possible. And you know, and it's also I think important too, I guess I'll like leave off with this, but people understand that you're going to be grieving for the rest of your life. But I also think too, that people don't really realize that you're going to be healing for the rest of your life too. Like you're not ever fully healed. Like it's not like that process stops because as long as you're healing, you're grieving. Right, exactly. Okay. Um, I was like, maybe I was like, I could be wrong. I could just be a very, no, no, that was good thoughts. Good. Okay. Thank you. I, and that's important to know too. I mean, it's like, okay, you can then focus on the healing and not just focus on the grieving. Like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's like pretty encouraging and crazy to see like that sometimes could be like what gets people through the day, like knowing that healing is there. Speaker 2: 48:42 So you're cutting off, oh, sorry, I didn't hear that whole last sentence by senior you now it's just crazy to think that like, you know that can get you through the day. Like realizing that despite the grief you can heal row whether you blog were just talk about it or write about it or you know whatever you do. Even if you don't really, even if you have a boundary Allie yet, but just knowing that it's not going to be, you know, miserable forever. Right. And I think it's important to just know that acceptance is the first part to yelling. Yeah, you definitely cannot heal. Personally, I don't think until you have accepted your grief, but that's a whole other topic. Right. Gotcha. Thank you so much for being on the show. Oh my goodness. This has been like a dream come true. Since my mom died, I was like, Oh my God, I love this girl. Speaker 2: 49:46 She is like my soul sister. Well you are so welcome. Thanks for having me. Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have three favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know about the Facebook Group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Finally had to katbonner.com/podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future.