Podcasts about MM

財經M平方即將迎來 10 週年，而我們也展開了一項到年底的超級企劃，也就是我們的 10 週年特輯系列，本週這集就是這個企劃的第一集。 本集邀請特別來賓，台灣經濟研究院的孫主任來聊聊，全球經濟的現況如何？現在供應鏈移轉的情況，哪些經濟體有機會脫穎而出？2026 年的全球經濟籤怎麼解？M平方與鄧白氏相遇的過程是什麼？

Menneenä viikonloppuna ajettiin Meksikossa ja Austininkin viikonloppu oli sekä meni. Lando Norris dominoi koko Meksikon viikonlopun siirtyen MM-sarjan johtoon. Kisassa muisteltiin myös, että F1 tosiaan on kilvanajosarja ja kilpailu myös päättyi täyteen pannukakkuun. Koko kolmikko Juuso, Teemu ja Elli pohtivat näiden lisäksi, kuka MM-sarjan tulee voittamaan.Tämä on Suomen F1 Podcast - tervetuloa mukaan!02:02- Rovanperä siirtyy Super Formuloihin - mitä se tekee rallin MM-sarjalle? 17:16- Meksikon viikonlopun läpileikkaus 21:22- Ferrarin positiivinen välähdys aika-ajoissa 26:33- Carlos Sainz jatkaa hyvää putkeaan - Williamsin yhteishenki28:56- Haas viime vuosien lukujen pohjalta30:45- Paska, paskempi, Alpine32:00- Kilpailun ensimmäisten mutkien kilvanajo41:48- Päiväkodista karannut taapero nimeltä George Russell47:50- Antonellin tulokasvuosi ja tulevaisuus49:37- Kilpailun loppu VSC:n varjoissa56:12- Kuka lopulta voittaa maailmanmestaruuden? 01:01:17- Tuukka Taposen tulevaisuusOtathan seurantaan myös: TikTok @suomenf1podInstagram, Threads & X @suomenf1podcast

My friend Anne says that when her children were very small and they received presents, it was the packaging that excited them the most. First they would play with the brightly coloured wrapping paper, then they would play with the box, opening and closing it and when it was empty, filling it with toys they already had. It wasn't until some time later that their attention was drawn to the actual present that had been inside.我的朋友安妮说，她的孩子在很小的时候，每当收到礼物，最让他们兴奋的其实是包装。起初，他们会先玩那色彩鲜艳的包装纸，然后再玩盒子——开开关关，等到盒子空了，还会把自己已有的玩具放进去。直到过了好一阵子，他们才会注意到盒子里真正的礼物。That is so true. We're talking about the importance of packaging, in particular the design. Yeah, because adults too are drawn towards a product because of the packaging.的确如此。我们今天要谈的是包装的重要性，尤其是包装的设计。是的，因为成年人也常常因为包装而被某个产品吸引。Now if you go to any supermarket, you'll see the shelves are completely stacked with similar products from different brands. So what do you choose? Yes, and as you know, Jackie, you can often find me in the supermarket staring at bottles of wine. And actually wine labels are becoming a dominant factor for consumers when deciding which actual bottle of wine to buy.现在如果你去任何一家超市，你会看到货架上摆满了不同品牌但种类相似的产品。那么你会怎么选择呢？没错，正如你知道的，Jackie，我常常在超市里盯着酒瓶看。事实上，葡萄酒的标签已经成为消费者决定买哪一瓶酒的重要因素。And in fact, in one supermarket study, the most visible wine bottles were noticed by up to 77% more consumers than less visible bottles. Sorry, so what do you mean by visible? Well, it seemed that consumers gravitated towards the brightly coloured labels, especially red, orange and gold. And also the owners of small size shops agreed.事实上，在一项超市研究中，最显眼的酒瓶比不显眼的酒瓶多吸引了高达77%的消费者注意。抱歉，你说的“显眼”是什么意思？嗯，看起来消费者更容易被色彩鲜艳的标签吸引，尤其是红色、橙色和金色。而且，小型商店的老板们也同意这一点。They said that if a consumer is unsure of what they're looking for, it only makes sense that they actually end up choosing the most eye-catching bottle. Yeah, so standing in front of hundreds of bottles which all contain the same thing, it's the labels that help you make the choice. Now, if further proof of the importance of packaging design is needed, then the story of Tropicana needs telling.他们说，如果消费者并不确定自己想买什么，那么选择最显眼的瓶子就是合乎逻辑的。没错，当你站在摆满上百瓶内容相同的饮品前，正是那些标签帮助你做出选择。现在，如果你还需要更多关于包装设计重要性的证明，那就必须提到Tropicana的故事。Now, Tropicana, as you know, Richard, is an American company that sells fruit-based drinks. Yeah, it's orange drinks in a carton, isn't it? Yeah. Now, way back in February 2009, for some reason, the company decided to change the design on the orange juice carton.Tropicana，正如你知道的，Richard，是一家销售果汁饮料的美国公司。对，就是那种纸盒装的橙汁。是的。早在2009年2月，这家公司不知出于什么原因，决定更改橙汁包装盒的设计。After less than two months and a 20% drop in sales, worth about $20 million, Tropicana switched back to its original design, and that had cost them $35 million. So what was the big mistake then? What did they do? Well, for some bizarre reason, Tropicana took a distinctive characteristic brand look. And that's the orange with the straw, isn't it, coming out of it? Yeah, and then they replaced it with a bland, nothing special design, just a glass of orange juice.不到两个月，销量就下降了20%，损失约两千万美元。于是Tropicana被迫恢复原有的包装设计，而这一折腾共花费了三千五百万美元。那么，他们到底犯了什么大错？他们做了什么？嗯，奇怪的是，Tropicana放弃了原本极具辨识度的品牌形象——就是那个插着吸管的橙子，对吧？没错，他们把它换成了一种平淡无奇的设计——仅仅是一杯橙汁。And so the carton instantly disappeared in the masses of no-name juice cartons. Right, so the people were actually looking for that design which they were so used to, and then they couldn't find it, so they picked something else. The product had lost its visual identity, so it was more about the packaging than the content.结果，这种新包装瞬间淹没在众多无名果汁盒中。没错，人们其实在寻找他们熟悉的那个设计，当他们找不到时，就转而选择其他品牌。产品失去了视觉上的识别度，这说明问题更多出在包装而非内容本身。Mm-hmm. Now, interesting, brands of all sizes now are starting to see the value of doing extensive research. Now, in particular, Richard, they're using this eye-tracking technology.嗯，现在有趣的是，无论大小品牌都开始意识到深入研究消费者行为的重要性。尤其是，Richard，他们正在使用一种叫做“眼动追踪技术”的工具。Yes, they can tell now what exactly the consumers are looking at, can't they? They can track their eyes over the products. So they can make comparisons with different designs and which ones attract the eye of the possible consumer the most. Well, actually, I can certainly see from the consumer's point of view, it'd be interesting to see why you actually chose one bottle or one packet over another.是的，他们现在能确切知道消费者在看什么，不是吗？他们可以追踪消费者在商品上的视线移动，从而比较不同的设计，看看哪一种最能吸引潜在顾客的注意。其实，从消费者的角度来看，了解自己为什么会选择某一瓶或某一包产品，也确实挺有趣的。Yeah, and it's certainly, from a manufacturer's point of view, something that they need to know.没错，而从制造商的角度来看，这无疑是他们必须了解的关键信息。

Office autopsy time! Kiera and Dana review a "practice" that went from broke to success in a handful of months, and how tracking their numbers saved them. Every single office will go through a cash flow crunch at least once, so it's important to understand the right flotation devices to utilize. This could mean pulling overhead apart, identifying production and collections percentages, analyzing fixed costs, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a special day. I have the one and only Dana Morsell on the podcast today. And prior to this, asked her, she's gone through a few nicknames and Dana, believe it or not, I was actually thinking about this last night. No joke. I was thinking like, there's Spiffy Tiffy and there's no BS Britt. And I was like, Dana, you've been with me for a long time. Like, why have I not gotten like a good nickname for you? And like, Britty Gritty. And I was like, okay, I just like throw wise on the end of these names like Tiffy, that is their TT DM does not sound quite right. Like that's like DMing on Instagram. And so I thought like, it's just Dainey. And now you told me I to do it with a Southern draw. So it's going to be like Dainey on the far. So well. Dana (00:44) Yep, it has to have it. I feel like it reminds me so much of my dad and like it just has to have that. Kiera Dent (00:51) Well, it's my dad. grew up on a dairy farm for all the listeners. Don't worry. We have like a really good podcast today. It's an office autopsy that Dana has taken these three incredible practices, like one owner, like they went from just stress and chaos and burnout to complete an absolute just like freedom, which and Dana has done it so quickly. So we're going to get there. I'm just going to tell you about this dairy farm real fast. ⁓ my dad grew up on a dairy farm and he used to say his mom would always like, Ricky, like that's how he would call him. imagine myself on this like beautiful estate and like sweeping my porch and having this like big white porch out there. And I'm like, Dainey! So that's how I envisioned this so, you know, that's that's the vision over here So whether you like it or not, otherwise we can go back to donuts with Dana. What do you prefer? Dana (01:38) ⁓ I actually love you standing on your white porch shouting that, so we'll take it. Kiera Dent (01:41) I think it just fits and if you haven't heard other podcasts, if you haven't been with us as long, Dana has the most random stories like running her bicycle into a deer. She has so many animals. She's got kids like Dana will always come to the table with the most random stories and she whoops everybody on trivia. We play games in our company and it's always like team trivia. Dana will whoop them. So, you know, here we go Dana. Welcome to the podcast. How are you over there Dana? Special Dana? Dana (02:09) doing pretty good. Yeah, doing pretty good. think all of my wild stories and my trivia comes from like, I don't know, I just have this like weird memory thing where I can like memorize things very quickly. Even like applying for a car loan, they're always shocked that I know all of my account numbers, all of my balances down to the penny, like just off the top of my head. And so I think that that's kind of where some of that comes from. Kiera Dent (02:28) No. I didn't even know that about you. So that's also a really interesting thing to note. All right, so Dana will remember, mean, is this okay? Is it something where you can remember numbers like past past? Or is it like your banking out is just current right now, but you couldn't remember like a month ago. Dana (02:47) No, so it is past-past, but it's because I don't know, my brain does this weird, like I make a riddle out of everything and I'm constantly like, okay, well, if I run and remember something, like if it's, you know, two, three, six, I'm like, well, two times three is six. And like, I just, I don't know, create like weird connections, especially with numbers in my brain and like riddle it so that I remember it. Kiera Dent (03:07) Fascinating. Fascinating. Okay. Well, there's another random fact about Dana. So Dana is one of my absolute fave humans in the entire world. Dana, truly, I say that on the podcast and I genuinely mean it. And we have talked about it on show, off show. Dana is just a super incredible human and offices who get to work with her are so lucky. So we thought it'd be fun. Office autopsy time. If you're new to the podcast, this is where we kind of go behind the scenes. ⁓ We mash up a few practices. just so you know, you'll never really fully know exactly who it is just to keep a client patient confidentiality. But we want to highlight of things that we do in real life, because I think consulting can be kind of hard. Like what do you actually do and what are the results you actually get? And so Dana just had some really solid wins with some practices. And I thought, Dana, let's get on the podcast and do our office autopsy, where we lift up the hood and we look behind the scenes. And what were some of the things you as a consultant did for this practice? What are some of the wins and gains that they've had? ⁓ that I think will just be fun. So Dana, let's take it away. ⁓ kind of like, where did this practice start? What have we implemented and where are they now? Maybe even tell them like where they started, where they got to. And then we'll talk about the how, because that's really fun. I don't like to wait for the like end result. I want to know quickly like, okay, they were like dying, drowning, broke, and then they got like hundreds of dollars and they got it in like a month. How did they do it? So take us away. Where were they? Where did they get to? And then let's go into the house. Dana (04:30) Yeah, and I think that this practice is just a really cool example of like the importance of knowing your numbers, especially when you have multiple practices and knowing what each practice is bringing to the table and having really clear separated numbers for those things. And so it was just really fun and I think a cool way to highlight how when you know those things, then you can fix systems that are broken or aren't working to see massive progress. So when this office came, they were at a negative profit. ⁓ each month and Kiera Dent (05:03) We're talking like they're losing money, losing sleep, stressed out of their minds. Dana (05:04) Yeah, yes. So stressed, they're pulling personal, you know, they're pulling boatloads of personal cash every month to cover expenses to keep these practices open. ⁓ You know, doctor is going from office to office. And it's truly, truly really stressful time and they don't really know where the leaks are coming from. And they can't put their finger on what's going on that's causing it. And yeah, stressed out to the max and just really, really wanting help and wanting to kind of pinpoint and give them a clear picture of why they are so stressed and why these practices that feel as if they're booming or are starting to get busy aren't profitable at that point. Kiera Dent (05:35) This And I think this is so common for so many practices, which is why we were talking morning huddle. We share all of our client wins every single day. You guys, we have a morning huddle. It's very fun. We talk about team wins, client wins. And when Dana talked about this, I'm like, Dana, we're podcasting. Like, can you get on the podcast with me? I think this is such a big win because it, yes, it's, it's quote unquote one practice that we've kind of mashed a few of them, but this is like every single office. And so many of them don't realize what's going on with my profit numbers. They feel like it's booming. but they have no money left over and then they're stressed to the max and they're countless hours. And this isn't just a brand new practice. Like this is a business owner who'd been in business for a long time. Like it's almost that I should with air quotes know what I'm doing, but I just don't know where it is. And Dana, I'm so proud of you for saying like they need to know their numbers. We harp on this like crazy because when you actually can dig in, which I'm excited for you to kind of do like the grand reveal and then the how, but I mean, how many practices, Dana, this is, I hope people realize one, practices all go through this. So this is not just a siloed to one or two practices. This is every office at some point is going to go through cashflow crunches, stressed out, working all hours and not being able to pinpoint. And just because you're profitable today does not mean you're forever going to be profitable. It is something you have to constantly work at, constantly be vigilant on. And it's not just like, set it, forget it, we're on our way. And so I think for that, but also I think so many people because they don't know what to do. they spin their wills that creates this cycle of death in my opinion. Like you truly are spinning, you're burning the candle at all ends. I remember when I met, cause I'm, I talked to this office when they were joining our company and I'm like, my gosh, like I can't want this more than they want it. Like they have to make the decision to join us, but my gosh, I see your problem. see your pain and we have got to fix that like an ASAP and get CPR because the owner was just running frantic and it was impacting family life and financials. And to me, you worked so hard that you should not be living that life this far into business ownership, whatever stage you're in. So I'm ready for the grand reveal. I hope people just realize this is not siloed and it's not something that's permanent. And it's also once you become profitable, that's also not permanent too. No season is permanent, but we want profitability to be more permanent because you're vigilant on it. Dana (08:07) Yeah, yeah. And you know, after looking at things, developing systems really honing in on their numbers and kind of what they were telling us, we were able to get them to be on track to hit 16 % profit in August. So going from negative profit to actually having a decent amount of profit sitting there, and they're producing in one less office now too. So. Kiera Dent (08:30) Okay. So breaking this down, how many months are we talking? Is this like five months, 10 months, 12 months? How long of a timeline did we go for? Five months. Okay. Again, why I wanted Dana to come on because consulting is not an overnight diet pill. It's not something that we can just inject and say, here you go. Like you're on your way. It is something. And also I want you to realize that any person listening, getting to negative profit also did not usually happen overnight. Now buying a practice, you might be a little bit negative. So there is a space where that can be negative. but this was someone who was running multiple offices and Dana kudos in five months, you got them from negative cash. We're talking like broke. There's no money to a 16 % profit. So there is, and we're talking, we're in the multimillions. So you can just do some math that even on 1,000,000 10 % profit is a hundred grand. Okay. You add 16 % that's 160,000 of profit. Now you can do the math for your own practice of a 16 % profit. and that was done in five months. So can you just imagine this practice going from like, my gosh, I'm broke to having this much slush on the other hand, and you got one less practice. There was multiple practices. You got rid of a practice, which there's strategy behind. Do we keep it not? What do we do there? And this doctor I guarantee you is having way more time, less stress as well. So the numbers, the money is always what people want to hear. Every time I talk to people on like... sales calls, wondering about working with us. Like what's your ROI, Kiera? How are we going to like make sure we pay for this? And I'm like, well, the numbers will be there. But what I actually care more about is the life you're living. Yes, I'm going to always cover numbers. Like that's the result. People need to have that. But I think the piece that people don't realize and why you're usually reaching out is you're looking for life of no stress. You're looking for your problems to actually get resolved. And Dana, that gift in five months, like, and that's fast. That's a fast turn. Not all practices are this quick. so I'm really curious, what did you guys do? How did you get that turn? I'm really proud of you. That's why I wanted you on the podcast to highlight dynamite Dana. mean, this one feels a little bit more like Dainey on the white porch. get, but dynamite Dana, being able to get those results in five months. That's impressive. Like that is dynamite to be able to do. So walk us through what were some of the pieces of how did we do this? What did we do? Five months is not, it might feel long to people, but when in the grand scheme of things, that's not even half a year to go from net negative. to positive 16%. Dana (10:48) Yeah. And I think sometimes too, it just helps to translate. Like what that looks like is we really cut expenses, right? Some of the expenses and they on average are collecting about 35,000 more per month too. Kiera Dent (11:01) Nice. Dana (11:02) ⁓ So it really came down to first step was getting them to understand which of the offices were profitable if any of them and you know what each individual office looked like. So we basically did an office autopsy. We pulled apart overhead. We pulled apart fixed costs for every office. We pulled apart their percentages of production and collections over the last year and really created a very clear picture of how each practice was doing as well as then moving forward what numbers do we need to hit in each practice to hit various profit points. Kiera Dent (11:40) Awesome. So breaking this down, I think when people have multi-practices, this is a huge problem that offices do is they bundle it all together and they have no idea where the true cashflow week is. And what I found is in multi-practice ownership, usually it's one practice that is the bleeding child and all the rest of them are doing well, but you don't know that. And so I did this, I had multiple businesses, I had all lumped into one and I didn't know, you have no idea where to fix things, where to move levers. what needs to happen. And so what we do is we do this like buckshot approach where we try to do everything for all of them, but don't actually know when we can pinpoint. So we're working hard or not smarter on that. So I love that you broke it apart. So basically you got to have separate tax IDs for each practice. I know that seems annoying. It's also annoying to break it down for your insurance companies, but choose your heart. Would you rather know where you are profitable or where you're not? The answer is hard pass. Yes. Like we absolutely want that. And so from there, then you looked at how much it's costing each practice. And this is so fascinating to me and people are like, but Kiera, Dana, like people travel with me to all the offices and I'm like, fantastic. You have to actually put that salary, that amount for that practice. So we know, and what's wild is that team member technically is working for three different companies. Technically they are, when you break it down this way. So technically they could work 40 hours at each location. That's technically okay. Talk with your, like, we are not CPAs. We're not financial advisors, but you have to look at this. They're separate tax IDs. used to do this at multi practices. So pending upon how it structured. not to say to work your employees 120 hours a week. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying though is if you've got a regional, you've got dental assistants that are going with you, they need to be clocking in at one location, clocking out, clocking in the next location, clocking out. And if you're paying them like gas or whatever in between, they need to actually be allocated to each practice individually so you can see actual costs per practice per business. This is how you run multi-businesses. You like think about it. If I have a dental practice and I have a coaching business and I have my real estate, they're like, all the money technically comes to you as a person, but you have to have those separated to see which business is doing well. And when you can look at all three of your practices as separate businesses under one roof of your own, this then helps you. Like you said, Dana, you laser focus and you pinpointed. So I'm very curious when you did this and you broke it apart, what did you find on expenses? Like how, like was one like just so expensive? I imagine it probably was just like cashflow negative. Like it was just gobbling all the money and the other ones were probably doing fine. Dana (14:05) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's it. Pretty much exactly what we found ⁓ and in breaking down all of those things then secondary to that just like you were saying with with team members We had team members doing various roles depending on which practice they were in and so there was just a lot to really clean up clarify and streamline per practice ⁓ outside of even just expenses and knowing financially where the practice stood. So that was our second journey kind of after we figured out the finances and you know once they had a reality of each practice then it was really easy I think to hone in on what systems we had to work on and make some tough decisions too. Kiera Dent (14:48) And when you said that, I was just thinking it also creates clarity for team members too. I know you've also been helping like with the regional manager and like what system should be in place. So mind you, yes, we're working on profit, but then we're also putting all these systems into play looking at all of them. But I will tell you when I had team members traveling to multi offices, that's hard on teams too. They have no clue. They don't have clarity. So they're just kind of like running with you. So everybody's running at full steam, but actually not making progress. I want you just to imagine like you are literally spinning your wheels. So it sounds like you're making progress. but the distance you're going is so minimal versus we want less sound, AKA less chaos and way more forward momentum. And so really love that you were able to do that and dial it in, figure it out. Now, how did the conversation go to sell a practice? Cause I mean, five months and selling a practice, like what did that even look like? How do you even have that conversation? How did this practice execute that quickly? Cause I'm actually really proud of them on that too. Dana (15:42) Yeah. So honestly and truly when we review the numbers, I think the conversation just naturally happened because you could clearly see, you know, that they're ultimately either we need to pump in a fair amount in team expenses, marketing and things like that to get the practice to where it needed to be or ultimately make the other decision. so I think just reviewing the numbers, the conversation naturally came up because it was a glaring, you know, kind of red light. ⁓ and honestly and truly it just was kind of a luck of knew someone in the area that was looking for a multi-practice venture and like just having a network and connections that it worked out so quickly and honestly it finalized within 60 days so it was a very very quick but it just you know happened to be that it was a very strong network ⁓ and made a local connection Kiera Dent (16:13) Mm-hmm. incredible. Yeah, which is also incredible to like have good connections and people often say, think it's, think kudos to this office that you worked with of they were willing to execute and take action quickly and not sit here and give excuses and say, my gosh, there's no one that will ever be there. It was great. see the bleed. And what I love when you talk about numbers, and this is why I think we're so passionate in Dental A Team like numbers, numbers, numbers. Like I harp on this day to know that I am like, ladies, what are the numbers telling us? Look at the numbers that's going to tell you. where you need to go and what you need to get. And like it's literally the treasure map to what needs to happen. But sometimes we're so in the weeds. I do it too. This is why I have coaches for Dental A Team. I'm so in the weeds and I need to get somebody outside of that. But looking at this, there are decisions now to be made. And I think numbers create clarity. So this practice could have like another scenario if we want to choose our own adventure, there are offices that see this practice is bleeding money. So then what do we do? How can we stop the bleed? Let's look at our costs. Let's look to see where we're producing. And sometimes it's a slow grow. So we're only gonna open up one day, but we're gonna open up on Monday, be closed Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. The next week we're gonna be open Tuesday. The next week we're gonna be open Wednesday, next week Thursday, next week Friday. So we can say we're open five days a week, but we're not putting the cost in five days a week. So we're strategic on doing this. We can also have it to where we don't have to staff it as high. So if we know we've got doctors in there that can produce. bring them in for hygiene, if there's dentistry to be done, do the dentistry, move hygiene over to a Friday where a lot of hygienists are off. You can get a part-time hygienist that can come in as that Friday hygienist. You can stack a whole hygiene schedule so we're not paying a hygienist to be on staff every day. ⁓ There are ways that they can do it. They could bring on an associate. They could look at, like you said, the marketing costs, but when you look at the numbers, numbers give so much clarity and then you can make decisions. And then the decision's pretty simple of, Do we need money right now? This practice was needing money. They needed to have the bleed stop. They needed to become profitable. And for them time and profit was more important, it sounds like, than growing and expanding. For other people, like, no, we need to grow and expand. So we're to pump money over here. We're going to grow this, but we now know a more strategic path. So I just want you to know, like, you don't have to sell. But I think being realistic, I remember listening in ⁓ early on in my career and it said, like, sometimes knowing when to close a business. is actually one of the smartest things that a CEO can do. And I remember I listened to that. were doing Dental A Team, tip or no, a Spiffy Tiffy back to dental placement pros days when we used to do recruiting. I should have stayed in that business Dana, like man recruit. I was starting at, I think I charged, I think a thousand, maybe 3000 max to hire and place an associate doctors. should have like hired me. Like I was a hot cake. Like I was so, I mean, now it's like 15 to 50,000 bucks. Like man, but Dana (19:19) Yeah. Kiera Dent (19:26) I remember listening to that podcast and dental place and pros was taking so much time and was so unprofitable. like we had higher and then people would wait the like 90 days and on day 89 they'd like we're terminating them. I was like, my gosh, I gotta go higher again. That business was consuming so much time, energy and effort when it wasn't the one that was going to, it wasn't my passion. It just was out of necessity. Dental A team was my passion by far. And I remember like it, as a business owner is actually really hard to admit that a business is failing. I'm not going to lie. Like I remember driving. I remember exactly where it was. It was like a snowy day. It was very overcast. And I just like had to have that hard, honest conversation with myself of you need to close dental placement pros and you need to put all your focus on Dental A Team. That's actually the, like the practice, if you will, the business that makes me excited. Um, and I think swallowing ego, I think looking and learning what I did wrong in that business. Today, I do that way differently. I'd run it so much differently. It'd be completely separate. I wouldn't be pulling my employees. There were just so many things I did wrong. But I think having the humility and knowing when it's time to close something down versus open something up, I think sometimes it can feel really sexy and exciting to grow. But if we're just growing for the sake of growth, but we're not getting the time and profit that's truly our driver, I think those are great questions to ponder when we're looking at this. So those are kind of my thoughts. Any other thoughts you have? It's such an amazing. Dana (20:45) And then. Kiera Dent (20:48) like transformation story. Dana (20:49) Yeah, and it's been really fun. you know, you're absolutely right. And we spent a lot of time on our calls kind of choosing our own adventure. What would it look like if you know, what's been our average marketing budget? And and and if we spent more and we had this book, what would that timeline look like to get it to what is the active number of patients we need to make it profitable? We did say, okay, if we pull and we add days, what does that pull from the profitable practice if we move the doctor, you know, to the other practice, we talked about expenses for an associate and what we felt like they could produce as we added a certain amount of new patients each month. And so it's been also fun for me as a consultant to kind of do that choose your own adventure with them and honestly and truly just give them the numbers and give them the timelines that then they can really, really make a decision that I feel like they were super confident in because they had all of that information and kind of made the decision I feel like eyes wide open. Kiera Dent (21:48) Yeah, and I think as consultants, this is what drives us. This is our passion to help practices and owners be empowered to make decisions that they want, not ones that they have to make. And so it's a, you're not forced into a decision. You made it with eyes wide open. You had all the numbers. You had all the facts you knew. You knew the pros and cons. And like you said, it is a choose your own adventure. And I think when we can take the, I don't know, it's almost like the stress, the heaviness of business. and turn it into a light, fun game. like, yeah, pretend we're reading a book and your book is your business. And it's like, I could do this way and end up at this chapter. I could go this way and end up at this chapter. Both endings are great. Both endings are your story. Both are filled with highs and lows and all the way around. But I agree with you, Dana. I think it's a beautiful thing to be able to empower our clients, to help them see, to get them out of the death spike, like, sirel downward and help them actually come to like a space of I don't know. It's almost like what you, took this. I feel like the way this office probably felt is they were walking in a heavy, dark cloud, like head down, hunkered down, staring at the ground and just trying to figure out how to get there. And you took them into this like beautiful new neighborhood. It's bright. It's cheery. The birds are singing. They're skipping along there with their family. Like they are living their best life. And that was done in five months. And so just really an incredible thing for us to look at. And so I think for you listening, like, where are you at? Maybe you're on cashflow row. Maybe you're on growth row. Maybe you are on trying to figure out your next adventure. But I don't think this practice even knew that this is their choose your own adventure. think Dana, you are able to be that guiding light shining for them, helping them see, peel apart under all the pieces. And I think really giving them the guidance that they need. So any last thoughts you've got on the choose your own adventure, going from negative to 16 % profit in five months, dang, that's a title and something you should be proud of. Dana (23:41) Yeah, this is definitely an office that I'm super proud of. ⁓ And you're right. These are the things that I think we live for. We love, we hope we see, you know, and we want to see for every client that comes our way. ⁓ And I think it just shows possibilities. And when you really hone in and you are able to make decisions with ease and clarity, it just massively, massively changes your stress level and just your entire life. Kiera Dent (24:11) Yeah, we say is life and business on purpose. so Dana, just love, love, I mean, Dynamite Dana, might stick girl. That is a dynamite story and really freaking proud of you and proud of the client too. Proud of them showing up. It takes grit, it takes humility, it takes courage. And I think just if you're sitting in that boat, if you're wondering, reach out. ⁓ This office five months ago did not know how to see forward. And now they're able to live a much different life very quickly. And I think if that's you. if you can relate to this office autopsy. That's why we do office autopsy sharing it. So hopefully you can see yourself painted in the fabric of someone else's story, knowing what's possible, what's real for you. You don't have to have multi-practices. You don't have to have any of that, but it might be you're on cashflow row. You're negative. You don't know how to see out. You're at a spin or you want to optimize you like this. came to us literally. They came in wanting to have help with systems and training a regional manager and look at what was uncovered. So what you might think is your pain point might actually not be the true pain point. there might be something deeper below. So Dana, real proud of you, real proud of this client. For all of you questioning, wondering, reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. This is what we live for. Truly seeing you succeed is what makes us so lit up. Like it's, it is the highlight of our year, our week, our month. So for all of you, take the call, let's, let's chat and let's get you these same success stories. So Dana, proud of you. Love having you on the podcast. Thanks for being here. And for all of you, of course. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast. Dana (25:34) Thanks for having me.

Education is on the ballot this year. Voters statewide are looking at propositions LL and MM concerning funding for school lunch programs. In Denver, 11 candidates are vying for four open DPS board seats, and some of those races are getting spicy. DPS Parent and BoardHawk podcast co-host Alexis Menocal-Harrigan has been interviewing the contenders for those open board seats and she joins host Bree Davies to dig into the details. She also gives insight into how state budget shortfalls are impacting students, why the teachers unions vs. reformers narrative is old news, and who these board candidates are.  After we recorded, Alexis told us she misspoke about DJ Torres' fellowship with Denver Families. His fellowship came with a $5,000 award, not $1,000.  For even more news from around the city, subscribe to our morning newsletter Hey Denver at denver.citycast.fm. Follow us on Instagram: @citycastdenver Chat with other listeners on reddit: r/CityCastDenver Support City Cast Denver by becoming a member: membership.citycast.fm How are you voting on the school board races? We want to hear from you! Text or leave us a voicemail with your name and neighborhood, and you might hear it on the show: 720-500-5418 Learn more about the sponsors of this October 30th episode: Arvada Center Denver Art Museum Denver Film Looking to advertise on City Cast Denver? Check out our options for podcast and newsletter ads at citycast.fm/advertise

Welcome back to the 254th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 254th episode we have a new artist interview. This particular conversation is between our Associate Artistic Producer Jillian Robinson and Meaghan Salmon the artistic director and co-founder of Sunbeam Theatre Company, and director of their upcoming production of Antigone. Together they discuss the importance of creating your own doors to walk through, implementing a game plan, and paying homage to humanity's universal truths. Antigone is running from November 5th to 9th, 2025 at the Factory Theatre (125 Bathurst St, Toronto, ON). Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://purchase.factorytheatre.ca/EventAvailability?EventId=50802 Artsworker discount code: ANTIGONE15 Follow Meaghan – All platforms: @meaghan_salmon Follow Sunbeam – Instagram/Facebook/Threads/TikTok: @sunbeamtheatre.co // Website: https://www.sunbeamtheatrecompany.ca/ Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

Welcome back to the 255th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 255th episode we bring you a Duet Review of Doubt: A Parable by John Patrick Shanley, presented by Wren Theatre, directed by Tatum Lee, and starring Bonnie Anderson, Robert Notman, Lizzie Moffatt, and Jessica Myrie. Join Mackenzie Horner and Ryan Borochovitz, as they relitigate a controversial opinion, unspool some twine, and applaud uniquely humanized performances. Doubt: A Parable is playing at the Annex Theatre (730 Bathurst St, Toronto, ON) until October 25th, 2025. Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://www.wrentheatre.com/doubt-a-parable CONTENT WARNING: Doubt is concerned with themes of child abuse, sexual violence, homophobia, racism, and paedophilia. As a result, this review, likewise, speaks directly to many of these topics. Viewer discretion is advised. Follow our panelists: Mackenzie Horner (Before the Downbeat: A Musical Podcast) – Instagram/Facebook: BeforetheDownbeatApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3aYbBeNSpotify: https://spoti.fi/3sAbjAuRyan Borochovitz – [Just send all that love to CoH instead; he won't mind!]; if you enjoy his theatre thoughts, more can be found at https://nextmag.ca/search/borochovitzFollow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatre If you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

Welcome back to the 256th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 256th episode we have a new artist interview. This particular conversation is between our Co-Artistic Producer Mackenzie Horner and the Director, Costume and Production Designer of the production Romeo Pimp which we recently covered and the Artistic Director of The King Black Box Sophie Ann Rooney. Together they unpack Sophie's creative process — from conceptualizing and designing a piece to bringing Romeo Pimp to life. The conversation dives behind the scenes into rehearsal-room stories, explores the layers of symbolism Sophie wove into the production, and delves into her reflections on what happens when some audience members miss the subtle details embedded in her work.CONTENT WARNING: This conversion about the play Romeo Pimp contains depictions, references, or implications of sexual exploitation & trafficking, grooming & psychological abuse, mental health & dissociation, substance use, violence, threats & intimidation, verbal & sexualized language themes of consent, power, and identity. If you are a victim or survivor of human trafficking, or think someone might be, please contact the Canadian Human Trafficking Hotline to be connected with support services or law enforcement in your community. The Canadian Human Trafficking Hotline can be reached 24/7 by phone at 1-833-900-1010 or online at www.canadianhumantraffickinghotline.ca.Follow Sophie Ann Rooney – Instagram: @shotbylofaFollow The King Black Box – Instagram: @thekingblackboxFollow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

Tiff and Dana discuss how to achieve full team alignment on periodontal policies and protocols, even when it's the last thing you feel like doing. Their tips include which habits to build upon, which templates for conversation with the patient are most educational, maintaining team alignment, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are back with you with us today I have Ms. Dana and I'm so excited to do these podcasts. I have podcasts all day I have podcasts with you Dana. I podcast with Britt today I never get Britt on these suckers anymore and then I think I'm Kristy later, too So it is a whirlwind of podcasting day. Thank you for letting me, you know Just bust it out and get all of you guys here today I'm really excited. I'm really excited for the one we just did. We record these just kind of like back to back to back just so you guys know in case you were wondering how this actually happens. We're not live right now. I wish we were. That'd be super cool. But it'd be really time consuming at the same time. But we just did a really fun one. I'm excited for them to hear about it. Dana though, I haven't asked you lately just how's life. had, it sounds like a full weekend of kiddos sports. Dana (00:54) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (00:54) ⁓ But you personally, you guys, talked about consistency in this last one. And you personally, you have some of the best consistency that I've ever seen anyone maintain. So number one, I think my big question that might be on everyone's mind is why? How do you maintain that consistency? You show up for everyone, but you still show up for yourself. You still do your workouts. You still make sure that your path for your own health is one of the most important aspects of your life. So Dana, how do you maintain that? Dana (01:29) Yeah, I think that just I learned early on in life, right? Like, especially with my health, like I had a point in my life where my health cup was pretty much empty and I had nothing to pour from. And so I just promised myself when I made it through that, that like, I would always prioritize keeping that like as a priority. And ⁓ it's just something that like, I've shown up for for myself. ⁓ And to like, because I've shown up, it just, I don't know, like it just keeps me saying it makes me a better mom, it makes me a better friend, it makes me a better partner, it makes me like, just better in so many ways, because I do take that space. And I don't always like, there's guilt, for sure that I do it and that I take the time and that you know, like I put other things aside to do it. But I think what it like, reaps and benefits and rewards for me outweigh those things. And so I'm truly on to the point now where I have kept it so consistent that when I fall off I feel terrible. The Dental A Team (02:43) Yeah, yeah, that's the real deal now. Yeah, I love that. I think that the things you pointed out there just your why is big enough. And I think a massive reminder to everyone that typically for a human being to make a change in life, it has to be hard enough. Like, we don't change things that don't feel like they're not working, right? That haven't like sprung up as a quote unquote, like broken piece of life yet, right? Like however you want to word it. If it's not hurting, we don't typically think, we're not thinking about it. If it's not hurting, we're just not thinking about it. So why are we addressing things we're not thinking about? So when it finally does get bad enough, I think I had a similar story, not the degree of health, but a similar instance where it was just like I hit the spot where it's like I actually don't have a choice. I either take care of myself or my health continues to deteriorate. So was honestly, it was easy at that point. So it's interesting because it's so easy, I think for us from the outside, especially for you and I for fitness and health, like I think you and I have, I can imagine you're the same like my whole life. It's been in my, it's been in my being for as long as I can remember. So it was very easy to see that in myself and to see that in my life and to see where. the consistencies or the inconsistencies are, but it's interesting to take a step back and see how relatable it is to just so many aspects of life. And if we applied those same steps and processes, the same thought to other aspects of life, how different things could look. And we narrow that focus because I think fitness and health just like, I don't know, I feel like it's like a box to check instead of like, away and for you and I like it's a way especially for you and so it's just gives you the template for other areas which I think for us makes a lot of times consulting fun. I think it's more fun and it's a little bit easier for us to sometimes see the structure of what needs to happen because it's literally mimicking the results that we've seen in other areas of our life and first So happy you're here, Dana, because had you not taken that initiative, things could look very different today. And I'm very happy that you did and that you dedicated to yourself and that you continue to. Second, you were teaching your kids the most important valuable lessons of their entire life. And it's so cool to watch you do that and to watch you show up for yourself, but for them too. I've always taken that stand with it. They're like, Brody's going to know that exercise is for health. It's not for the other. ideas in there. So I never wanted him to, you know, have whatever complications with health and fitness in his life. So I made it a priority for me pretty early on in his life because of that. And then really had to about six years ago. So I applaud you for those pieces. And I just think it's really, really cool. And I think it kind of stems and spurs into a more fun version of today's podcast. Because I really do think that that consistency and again that template that you have for like no I'm just going to do it and some days, you know I'm sure you wake up like I do or I'm like today's not the day and then it's like no just go just go it's 30 minutes It's an hour of my life. Like just go and you will always feel better afterwards So sometimes life comes in and this task or this duty comes in and it's like this feels like it's gonna be really hard I don't really want to talk to this person about this thing I'll do it next time. And the I'll do it next time only slides us backwards. And we see that with the health and fitness very easily. If we don't go to the gym today, like we're sliding backwards to tomorrow. But in these conversations that we're talking about today with the perio, everyone's favorite word, perio, and being in alignment on the periodontal care kind of makes me think of those areas where we really do slide backwards because we're like. I don't really want to have that hard conversation or, that kind of borderline or I don't know what we would classify this as. I'm just going to probe you today. Maybe they'll see somebody else next time. Like you're my, you're one of my favorites, Brits, my other favorite, ⁓ perio brain to pick when it comes to stuff like this, because really getting alignment on that can look like so many different things and consistency on the alignment I think is one of the key pieces. And Dana, there's so much to pick apart in there. I'm obviously alluding to have the hard conversations with the patients when they need deep cleaning, even if they've been coming to your practice forever. I don't care, just do it. But how are the doctors important in your opinion and from a hygiene standpoint in gaining the alignment within the periodontal care, within the periodontal policies and protocols? Because we can tell a hygiene team to go do it, but I feel like without the doctor, we're like 90 % there. Dana (07:22) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah, and and I really and truly feel like the doctor is so crucial in to me. It's like, ⁓ we have to do in this situation is build a plan and then create habits stacking for our hygienists like to do it right. And I think that the doctor is so crucial in setting up the standard of care for perio like what are the expectations for the hygiene team for each specific perio service within the practice? What are our parameters? What are our guidelines? That way, when a patient walks in, no matter which hygienist they see, the same thing is recommended. Also too, it gives a very clear roadmap for the doctor to back you up. You've built it together. So you know that if you follow the protocol, the doctor can confidently back you up. You know that you'll get that every time that they walk in the room. And then lastly, importantly, just as important, it allows you to ⁓ confidently have the discussions that maybe you haven't. And I've seen an office as to where we built the protocol and there are moments of maybe we disagree, right? Maybe we see something different on an x-ray or maybe we see, you know, we probe slightly different or our angles are a little bit different or I've got a doctor versus a hygienist that one presses a little bit harder when they probe, right? But it allows us to definitively be able to make a decision and say, we default to the protocol. This is what the protocol The Dental A Team (09:08) Yeah. Dana (09:16) says when we have this many millimeters in probing depth, this many, and this is how often we do those things. This is the cadence in which we bring them back. These are the results that we expect to get it. And so when you have that outline, whether you are so far from it when you start or whether you're like pretty close to it when you start, it's okay. It's just build your roadmap of what you want your The Dental A Team (09:23) Yeah. Dana (09:41) period to look like in your practice first. And doctors play such a key role in developing standards of care with hygienists. The Dental A Team (09:50) Yeah. my gosh, that was beautiful. something you said at the beginning was the habit stacking and then something in pieces, ⁓ kind of pulling those together, the habit stacking, mentioned, basically you mentioned templates, right? Templates of how to get there. So I think the first template that a doctor in that habit stacking, which is 101 of anything, accomplishing anything in life, it just generally gets put on the health and like fitness industry. ⁓ side of it, but anything is habit stacking to create any kind of habit you're going to have it stack. So what you're saying there and what it makes me think of is like realistically the initial template, like what do I do with my patient? So you mentioned probing. So I think that habit stacking is like probing how often that's your, that's your first habit. Like how do we implement the x-rays and the probing at a certain interval to get the result that we want. And if we want to be able to diagnose periodontal disease, we've gotta have the x-rays and the perio charting. So then it's like, okay, our first habit is getting these things into the appointment. Our second habit is diagnosing accurately and having those three to four periodontal classifications, that's the word I want there, that we can choose from and making sure that we're in alignment on those. There's so many, you guys, you can get recommendations. You can get 15 recommendations on anything anymore. So just be careful what you're looking at. That's a true space of alignment. What is a one to three periaprobe? One to three millimeters, what does that mean? What is three to five? What is five plus? And then what is, we're referring this out. So I think when you're talking habit stacking from an outsider's perspective, I am not a hygienist, I would imagine if I were to sit in your seat, these are the things I would need. to get this started and the consistency on time, like how often are we periaprobing? How often are we taking these x-rays? Dana, I think those come from the doctor and I know I might've just made so many hygienists so angry because I know that I have this conversation so many times. You are a provider but at the end of the day, like it is the doctor's practice and the doctor's license and those types of recommendations have to come from Dana (12:11) you The Dental A Team (12:15) him or her where they're saying, I want bite wings once a year. I want bite wings every six months. I want perioprobes once a year. Dana, is that the kind of habit stacking and templates that you're looking for too? Dana (12:27) Yep, You're spot on in there. How do we gather the information that we need to make our period diagnosis or to make our cleaning recommendation with our patients and outlining and defining how often we do that, when we do that. What it means to do that, like what are we doing ⁓ is your first and foremost foundation. And then it is like bridging into what we do end up diagnosing, right? So what treatments do we choose and when do we choose them? So that's your perioprotocol, right? That is when do we do localized SRP? When do we do generalized SRP? What is scaling in the presence of gingivitis in this office, right? Because that's a term that's very broad. So how many bleeding points? do we have to have? it have to be in all four quadrants? Does it have to be 20 bleeding spots? What does that look like in your office? ⁓ What is a perio maintenance? What do we do? mean, even farther as far as, when do we refer out? If we... aren't, that's one time that I see that hygienists maybe sometimes disagree because it's hygiene comfort. Then I always say default to who you recommend to. If you have a periodontist that you love in your area, call them and say, hey, at what point would you really like to see them in your office? And we start to kind of go back and forth with this patient. So that way it's a very, very cut and dry of what we follow. Right? And then, you know, then it becomes then it's templates for the conversation. Right? So how do we get to the conversation to educate the patient? What do we say if this has been a long term patient? What do we do if a patient refuses? Right? If they just want the cleaning that insurance covers, what do we do once they've had each of these? Right? Is it are we a yes please, perio for life, right? Like once perio, always perio. Do we have wiggle room in there, right? Like what is our, like what's our protocol for all of that? The Dental A Team (14:27) Mm-hmm. Dana (14:28) And I do feel like a lot ⁓ of doctors take the place that like, hey, my hygienists are my perio experts. And I think that like, that is a great stance to have, but I think doctors, need to be a part of building the standard in your practice. And then yes, trusting your hygienists to follow that standard for sure, and make the recommendations on the things that they see. Absolutely. But I do think it's crucial that the doctors are part of the standard setting within their own practice. The Dental A Team (14:54) Yeah. Oh, you nailed it. I couldn't agree more. And that's coming from a non hygiene standpoint. And you just heard a hygienist word straight from her mouth. And I think even the most, I'm gonna say it stubborn and hard headed hygienist who are like, no, this is my world. It is your world. But I think even the most stubborn, hard headed or strong willed is probably a better word to use. Hygienist will agree that structure. helps progress. And if there is a structure to be had, there's input to be had, I think anyone would prefer that input upfront and honestly than on the back end saying like something went wrong, right? I didn't do something correctly. Well, we've all said it like, well, you didn't tell me that I didn't know, right? Or I didn't know you wanted it that way. This is the space to get all of that stuff out on the table first. And doctors, for you to be like, my standard of care is X, Y, Z. And a hygienist to be like, well, tell me more about that because I think this. You know, I think ABC. And a doctor's like, cool, this is why I think X, Y, Z. Why do you think ABC? This is a space to have conversation. it's not, Dana, what you're saying is everything you said was a conversation. So it's more about Everyone being able to bring to the table their own knowledge, what you guys have learned, we've all gone, everyone likely has gone to a different school, right? Hygienists go to a different school, typically university, than the doctors do or trade school or wherever it's from. Doctors in most practices, it's rare that you have even associates that have gone to, everybody's gone to the same school. So there's different schools of thought depending on where your training was. And there's different opinions. I walk into some practices that floss is floss. I walk into other practices that there's like, do not use glide, or do not use whatever on the wall, and it's coconut floss. And then there's other practices that are like, don't eat coconut. You just pick and choose. It's all just the best that you guys can come to terms with. And so I think that it's more of a sharing of ideas coming with the standards and protocols. Now, there are things that will be like, There are things that will be a discussion and I think everything is a discussion. ⁓ There are things that will be flexible, there's things that won't be super flexible. Like x-rays are probably not a super flexible spot. How often are you periaproping? Because these are based off of standards, literally standards of care for their licenses, but it's still a discussion. And I know I've had hygienists that are like two years bite wings, but doctors are firm on one. Like, cool, just take the bite wings. That's the standard of care. and come to an agreement. And Dana, think that based off what you're saying, like that alignment is not just a, this is the box you stay in, but it's a conversation. And what you said earlier kind of resonated with me too, because I do see sometimes, oftentimes where doctors are like, yeah, we'll do a perio alignment meeting and meeting Mondays, we'll do meeting Mondays and we'll do perio alignment meeting. And they've got a patient, they're doing a crown while hygienists are meeting. And then hygienists come out. They're like, this is what we decided. And doctors are like, OK, I'll review it. I was like, come on, just be at the meeting. Right, Dana, do you think? Dana (18:16) yeah. Yeah, I see that a lot. And then, you know, then it sits on a doctor's desk or, or a doctor does review it and has notes, but like the notes don't get to the team or then it doesn't get even fully rolled out because we're still kind of waiting to see like, did we agree? Do we agree? Like, where is this? Where is this thing? And and I think the doctors being part of the meeting and part of the The Dental A Team (18:33) Mm-hmm. Dana (18:42) conversation, I just feel like you leave with alignment and you leave with buy-in. When a doctor is just is a part of that because I feel like, As a hygienist, I never wanted to feel as if like I was doing something that was outside of what the doctor wanted as far as care for their patients. And so I think when they're part of the discussion, they're part of the building the standards, they're part of mapping out those habits stacking and the pieces that they want to see. I think then it makes sure that no matter what patient is in the chair, no matter who they see, right, everybody is aligned and everybody is doing like what is desired for that specific office. The Dental A Team (19:29) Totally, I agree. think this was so cool. And I think we spun this in some fun directions today that were a little bit different than ⁓ areas we've spoken before where it was much more structured. This one is a little, slightly less structured. There's still structure to it, but it's more giving you guys the knowledge base to understand that you get to build the structure as a team together too. Our structure, our recommendations, your action items today. Schedule a perio. alignment meeting. A lot of times these get put in the schedule as a hygiene team meeting or a hygiene department meeting and they're going to talk about perioprotocols and doctors don't think they have to attend or it's not on their schedule at all. But doctors who are listening, hygienists who are listening, office managers who are listening, schedule a full team alignment even if you're like, hey, we don't have issues, we diagnosed just fine. I just come together once, at least once a year, probably once every six months or so. Just make sure we're all on the same page, you guys. And I think Dana, Something I've seen happen the most frequently is any kind of addition to the team, even Steril Tech, who's helping turnover rooms, any kind of addition to the team, those are the pieces that get lost first. That consistency becomes inconsistent and we lose the template. So first and foremost, make sure you guys have alignment meetings and then make sure you have some sort of a structure or a checklist on what are the things that these alignment meetings... One, what are we trying to gain? Like what is the goal of the alignment meeting? And what are we going to cover? So templates A to Z, our x-rays, our perioprobing, our exams, how often do you have to have a doctor in the room for an exam? All of these pieces that might to some of you guys listening now be like, that's crazy that practices deal with this. But if you don't have it, there will come a day, there will be someone that it gets lost on. So just make sure it's there. So Dana. Let me know if you have any more action items. My first one, schedule that alignment meeting. Second, make sure there's templates. Make sure you guys know what you're working towards and why. And then implement. And I think, Dana, when we're building out Perio protocols, I think it would be safe to say you should be able to implement those within a quarter. So if you've got the alignment meeting scheduled, you hashed out on the meetings, you should be, if you do it quarter one, you should quarter two, be able to roll out those Perio protocols. Do you agree, Dana? Dana (21:51) Yeah, I do. I agree with that for sure. And then I think the last action is if you already have a perio protocol in place, make sure that every hygienist on your team knows it and make sure it is updated. Right. I think that, you know, there are some things that in the perio world have changed and will continue to change. And so I always say when you build these protocols or you build these templates and you have alignment, it's not just like set it and kind of forget it. Make sure it gets added to onboarding packets for new hygienists. Make sure that we, you know, continue to kind of check in and see what we're doing. Make sure that we've got tracking in place and make sure that we update those things as Perio changes because, you know, grading and staging is now here and pieces that if you've had a long term Perio protocol, we may need to add or consider updating. The Dental A Team (22:40) Totally, beautiful, thank you. I am leaving it at that. Everybody, if you were listening in the car, go listen again, write these things down. If you were listening, I don't know, anywhere else, I hope that you were taking some awesome notes. If not, listen again. The recordings are here for just that. So, share this with a friend, you guys. Everyone needs to know these Prairie Protocols. This is massive. It is a huge space that is underdeveloped in a lot of practices, I would say most practices. the perio space is underdeveloped. So these are some really quick, easy tools to get that ball rolling without having to take extra courses and laser certifications and all of these things. Those would be like step two or three. These are your first steps. So go do the things you guys drop us a review. We always like to see those five stars and know what you loved and any ideas that you have to add to what we talked about. And then Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. That was a hard one to say today. ⁓ is where you'll reach us. If you have any questions or you want any templates or ideas, just shoot us an email, you guys. do, Dana and I do get a lot of those requests straight to us from our Hello team. So just let us know how we can best help you and we'll catch you guys next time. Thank you.

Chuck And Julie Show with Chuck Bonniwell and Julie Hayden Guest, Michael Finch with the David Horowitz Freedom Center - Colorado ballot initiatives LL and MM Michael Finch with the David Horowitz Freedom Center on his new book - A Time to Stand - The Dire Hour to Defend American Beauty. Plus just say no to ballot initiatives LL and MM.

Me suis lancé un défi rigolo et j'aimerais bien que tu fasses pareil (je me sentirai moins seule et pis, cela aura plein de retombées positives pour toi et ta petite entreprise). Je te présente…

Exploring Aurora's unique multi-day rally format and the people bringing gravel culture to Cyprus, Switzerland, and Portugal. This week, we're heading overseas for a new kind of gravel adventure. The Aurora Gravel Rally Series blends the spirit of exploration with the thrill of competition — taking riders across stunning landscapes in Cyprus, Switzerland, and Portugal. Craig sits down with Fiona, Race Director for the Portugal event, to unpack what makes the Aurora Gravel format so special. From timed rally segments to all-inclusive multi-day experiences, Fiona shares how Aurora is redefining what it means to race and travel on gravel. Expect insights on: How rally-style racing works and why it opens gravel to more riders The cultural flavor of each European stop — from the Mediterranean to the Alps Aurora's vision for balancing community, challenge, and discovery What makes Portugal a hidden gem for gravel cyclists If you've ever dreamed of combining racing with real adventure, this one's for you. Links Mentioned:

In this profound episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb delve deeply into the Parable of the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30), exploring its implications for Christian assurance. Building on their previous discussion, they examine how this parable speaks to the mixed nature of the visible church, the sovereignty of Christ over His kingdom, and most significantly, the doctrine of assurance. Through careful theological reflection, the hosts unpack how true believers can find solid ground for assurance not in their own works or fruit-checking, but in the promises of Christ and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. This episode offers both encouragement for those struggling with doubts and a sobering challenge to those resting in false assurance. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Tares teaches that the visible church will be mixed until the final judgment, containing both true believers (wheat) and false professors (tares) who may appear outwardly similar. True assurance is not based primarily on good works but on the promises of Christ, the inward testimony of the Holy Spirit, and the evidences of grace in our lives. False assurance is a real danger, as many who think they belong to Christ will discover at the final judgment that they never truly knew Him. The Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18) provides a helpful framework for understanding biblical assurance as the proper possession of every Christian. Christ's role as the divine Master of the house (the world) and Lord of the angels is subtly yet powerfully affirmed in this parable, grounding our assurance in His sovereignty. Good works are the fruit of assurance, not its cause—when we are secure in our salvation, we are freed to serve Christ joyfully rather than anxiously trying to earn assurance. The final judgment will bring perfect clarity, revealing what was hidden and separating the wheat from the tares with divine precision that humans cannot achieve now. The Doctrine of Assurance: Reformed Understanding The Reformed tradition has always emphasized that believers can and should have assurance of their salvation—a conviction recovered during the Reformation in contrast to Rome's teaching. As Tony noted when reading from the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18), this assurance is "not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation." This assurance rests on three pillars: the promises of God in Scripture, the inward evidence of grace, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit. What makes this understanding particularly comforting is that it shifts the foundation of assurance away from our performance to God's faithfulness. While self-examination has its place, the Reformed understanding recognizes that looking too intensely at our own hearts and works can lead either to despair or to false confidence. Instead, we're directed to look primarily to Christ and His finished work, finding in Him the anchor for our souls. The Problem of False Assurance One of the most sobering aspects of the Parable of the Tares is its implicit warning about false assurance. Just as the tares resemble wheat until maturity reveals their true nature, many professing Christians may outwardly appear to belong to Christ while inwardly remaining unregenerate. As Jesse observed, "The tares typically live under false assurance. They may attend church, confess belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical, it's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual." This echoes Jesus' warning in Matthew 7 that many will say to Him, "Lord, Lord," but will hear the devastating response, "I never knew you." The parable teaches us that this self-deception is not always conscious hypocrisy but often the result of spiritual blindness. As Jesse noted, referencing Romans 1, Ephesians 4, and 1 Corinthians 2, the unregenerate are "not merely ignorant, they're blinded... to the spiritual truth by nature and by Satan." This understanding should prompt humble self-examination while simultaneously driving us to depend not on our own discernment but on Christ's perfect knowledge and saving work. Memorable Quotes "Assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions." - Thomas Brooks, quoted by Jesse Schwamb "When we are confessing, repenting, seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ, then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance." - Jesse Schwamb "The sacrifice and the service that a husband performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him, that is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it." - Tony Arsenal on how good works flow from assurance rather than cause it Resources Mentioned Scripture: Matthew 13:24-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 1, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 2, 2 Timothy 3:5 Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 18 "Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation" Thomas Brooks: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices" YouTube Channel: My Wild Backyard Khan Academy: Educational resource recommended during "Affirmations and Denials" segment Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 466 of the Reform the Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. We're going back to the farm again. Can't stop. Won't stop. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. [00:01:02] Discussion on the Parable of the Tears Tony Arsenal: The last week's discussion was interesting and I think, um, it's gonna be nice to sort of round it out and talk about some things you might not think about, uh, when you first read this parable. So I'm, I'm pretty excited. Jesse Schwamb: Oh, what a tease that is. So if you're wondering what Tony's talking about, we're hanging out. In Matthew 13, we are just really enjoying these teachings of Jesus. And they are shocking and they're challenging, and they're encouraging, and they're awesome, of course. And so we're gonna be finishing out the Parable of the Tears and you need to go back and listen to the previous conversation. This, this is all set up because we have some unfinished business. We didn't talk about the eschatological implications. We have this really big this, this matza ball hanging over us. So to speak, which was the, do the TAs in this parable even know that they are tarry, that they are the TAs? And so in this parable, the disciples learn that the kingdom itself, God's kingdom, the kingdom that Jesus is enumerating and explaining and bringing into being, they are learning that it's gonna be mixed in character. So that's correcting this expectation that the kingdom would be perfectly pure and would have, would evolve righteous rule over all of the unrighteous world. And so it's a little bit shocking that Jesus says, listen, they're gonna be. Tears within the wheats that is in the world, the seed that God himself, the sun has planted and that they're gonna exist side by side for a long time. And so we, they have to wait patiently and give ourselves to building up the wheats as the sons of the kingdom and be careful in their judgment, not to harm those who are believers. We covered a lot of that last week, but left so much unsaid we couldn't even fit it in. This is gonna be jam packed, so I'm gonna stop giving the tees instead start moving us into affirmations and denials. [00:02:45] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: It's of course that time in our conversation where we either affirm with something really like or we think is undervalued or we deny against something that we don't really like or is a little overvalued. So as I usually say to you, Tony, what have you got for us? [00:03:00] YouTube Channel Recommendation: My Wild Backyard Tony Arsenal: I am affirming a YouTube channel. Um, I, I think the algorithm goes through these cycles where it wants me to learn about bugs and things because I get Okay, like videos about bugs. And so I'm, I'm interested. There's been this, uh, channel that's been coming up on my algorithm lately called My Wild Backyard, and it, it's a guy, he's like an entomologist. He seems like a, a like a legit academic, but what he does is he basically goes through and he talks about different bugs, creepy crawlies, looks at like snakes, all that kinds of stuff. It seems like his wheelhouse is the stuff that can kill you or hurt you pretty bad. Nice. But, um, it's interesting and it's. It's good educational content. It's, you know, it's not sensationalized, it's not, uh, it's not dramatized. Um, it's very real. There's occasionally an instance where he, he's not, sometimes he will intentionally get bit or stung by an, uh, by an animal to show you what it does. So he can experience and explain what he's experiencing. And sometimes he just accidentally gets bit or stung. And so those are some of the most interesting ones. So like, for example, just looking at his, his channel, his most recent, um, his most recent video is called The most venomous Desert Creatures in the US ranked the one previous was. The world's most terrifying arachni isn't a spider. And then previous to that was what happens if a giant centipede bites you? So it's interesting stuff. If you are one of those people that likes bugs and likes creepy crawlies and things, um, this is definitely the channel for you if you're not one of those people. I actually think this probably is the channel for you too. 'cause it kind of demystifies a lot of this stuff. Um. You know, for example, he, he will commonly point out that, um, spiders don't wanna bite you and they just wanna leave you alone. And, and as long as you leave them alone, even, even something like a black widow, which people are terrified of, and I think, right, rightfully so. I mean, they can be scary. Those can be scary bites. He'll, he'll handle those, no problem. And as long as he's not like putting downward pressure on them, uh, they have no interest in biting, they really just want to get away. So even seeing that kind of stuff, I think can help demystify and, and sort of, uh, make it a little bit easier. So my Wild Backyard, he can find it on YouTube. Um, he's safe for kids. He's not, he's not cussing even. I mean, I think occasionally when he gets bit on accident, you might, you know, you might have a beep here or there, but, um, he's not, he's not regularly swearing or things like that. And he does a pretty good job of adding that stuff out. Jesse Schwamb: What a great title for that, isn't it? This, yeah. Confluence of your backyard. That space that seems domesticated is also stealing its own. Right. Wild. And there's a be Yeah. Both those things coming together. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's interesting stuff and it's really good. I mean, it's really compelling videography. He does a good job of taking good photos. You'll see insects that you usually won't see, or spiders you usually won't see. Um, so yeah, it's cool. Check it out. [00:05:51] Discussion on Spiders and Creepy Crawlies Jesse Schwamb: What are you, uh, yeah, I myself would like to become more comfortable with the arachni variety. If only be, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's a weird creature, so my instinct is to be like, kill them all. And then if I can't find them and I know they're around, then we just burn everything that we own. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: They just can't sink into the ground fast enough. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. There's something about the way they move, like their, their bodies don't move the way you would anticipate them to. Right. And it freaks, it just weirds out human sensibilities, so. Right. Jesse Schwamb: They're also like, I find them to be very surprising. Often. It's not kind of a, a very like, kind of measured welcome into your life. It's like you just go to get in the shower and there's a giant spider. Yeah. Oh yeah. Although I guess that spider, he's, he or she's probably like, whoa, where'd you come from? You know, like, yeah. He's like, I was just taking a Tony Arsenal: shower. You know what's interesting? Um, I saw another video was on a different channel, um, like common jumping spiders. Yeah. Which there are like hundreds of species of common jumping spiders. Jesse Schwamb: True. Tony Arsenal: Um, but spiders and jumping spiders specifically, actually you can form almost like a pet bond with, so like the, that jumping spider that like lives in your house and sees you every day. He, he probably knows who you are and is like, comfortable with you. And they've done studies that like you can actually domesticate jumping spiders, so they're not as foreign and alien as you might think. Although they certainly do look a little bit strange and weird. And the way their bodies move is almost designed to weird out people like it just the skinness, like the way their legs skitter and move it, it just is, it's, it triggers something very primal in us to That's wild. Be weirded out by it. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's wild. I love it. That's a good, a affirmation. I'm definitely gonna check that out. I, any, anything? I really want to know what the, what like the terrifying arachni is. That's not a spider. Tony Arsenal: It's a, well, it's called a camel spider, but it's not really a spider. Oh, Jesse Schwamb: I know what you're talking about. That is kind of terrifying. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. They, they actually don't have any venom. Um, yeah. Check out the video. I mean, it, it was a good video. Um, but yeah, they're freaky looking and, um, but even that, like he was handling it No problem. Yeah. Like it wasn't, it wasn't aggressive with him once Wow. Once it figured out it wasn't, he wasn't trying to hurt him and, and that it couldn't eat him. Um, it, it just sort of like hung out until he let it go. So Jesse Schwamb: yeah, just be careful if you watch it one before bed or while in bed. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Probably not right before bed. Yeah. You'll, you'll get the creepy crawlies all night. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. But there's something somewhat. Like invigorating about that isn't there? Like it's, it's kind of a natural, just like kind of holy respect for the world that God has created, that they're these features that are so different, so wild, so interesting and a little bit frightening, but in the sense that we just draw off from them because they're so different than what we are. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And you know, again, there's places you would be happy to see them, but maybe your bathtub or like shooting out, like, you know, like where you live, the jumping spiders are legit and they will just pop out on you, you know? Yeah. You're just doing your own thing and then all of a sudden they're popping out. I think part of that is just that what, what gets me is like them just, you know, like I remember in my basement here, once one popped out from a rafter and then I was holding, happened to be holding up broom. My instinct just naturally was to hit it. I hit it with the broom and it went across the room and fell on an empty box and sounded like a silver dollar had hit the box. Like it was just a massive, I mean, again, like, it's like fish stories, like it's a massive spider. It was a big spider. Yeah. But you just don't expect to, to see that kind of thing. Or maybe, maybe I should, but anything that moves in that way, and again, like centipedes, man, forget it. We have those too, like in our basement. Like the long ones. Oh yeah. Yeah. That thing will come like squiggling down the wall at you, like eye level and you just wanna run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, you do run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. It's not that you want to, it's that usually you do. I don't mean like you specifically, although probably you specifically. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's, yeah, you just react. Well, j Jesse enough freaking out. I mean, we're getting close to Halloween, so I suppose it's appropriate, but, uh, enough of that. What are you affirming or denying today? Jesse Schwamb: Once again, without like any coordination, mine is not unlike yours. I know you and I, we talk about the world in which we live, which God has created, and this lovely command, this ammunition to take dominion over that. And one of the things I appreciate about our conversations is I think you and I often have maybe not like a novel. Kinda perspective on that, but one that I don't hear talked about often and that is this idea of taking dominion over what it is possible to know and to appropriate, and then to apply onto wisdom. [00:10:27] Affirmation: Khan Academy Jesse Schwamb: And so my information is in that realm. It's another form of taking ownership of what's in the wild of knowledge that you can possess. And again, equal parts. What an amazing time to be alive. So I'm affirming with the website, Khan Academy, which I'm sure many are familiar with. And this website offers like. Thousands of hours. Uh, and materials of free instructional videos, practice exercises, quizzes, all these like really bespoke, personalized learning modules you can create for topics like math, science, computing, economics, history, art. I think it goes like even starting at like. Elementary age all the way up into like early college can help you study for things like the SAT, the LSAT AP courses, and I was revisiting it. I have an open account with them that I keep in love and I go back to it from time to time. And I was working on some stuff where I wanted to rehearse some knowledge in like the calculus space, do some things by hand, which I haven't done. And I was just like, I'm blown away at how good this stuff is. And it's all for free. I mean, you should donate if you. You get something from this because it's a nonprofit, but the fact that there are these amazing instructional videos out there that can help us get a better understanding of either things we already know and we can rehearse the knowledge or to learn something brand new essentially for free. But somebody's done all the hard work to curate a pedagogy for you. Honestly, this is incredible. So if you haven't looked at that website in a long time or maybe ever, and you might be thinking, what, what do I really wanna learn? Lemme tell you. There's a lot of interesting stuff there and it's so approachable and it's such a good website for teaching. And if you have children in particular, even if you're looking for help, either helping them with their own coursework or maybe to have like kind of a tutor on the side, this is so good. So I can't say enough good things recently about Khan Academy 'cause it's been so helpful to me and super fun to like just sit and have your own paced study and in the private and comfort of your own home or your desk at work or wherever it is that you need to learn it. To be able to have somebody teach you some things, to do a little practice exercises, and then to go on to the world and to apply the things you've learned. Ah, it's so good. Tony Arsenal: Nice. Yeah, I've, I've never done anything with Khan Academy. I'll have to check it out. There's, um, there's some skills of needing to brush up on, uh, at work that I am probably not gonna be able to find in my normal channels, so I'll have to see if there is anything going on there. Um, but yeah, that's, that's good stuff. And it's free. Love freestyle. It's, and of course, like Jesse Schwamb: things like this are legion. So whatever it is, whatever your discipline or your field of study or work is, there's probably something out there and, uh, might, I humbly maybe encourage you to, if you use something like that and it's funded by donations, it's worth giving, I think, because again, it's just an amazing opportunity to take dominion over the knowledge that God has placed into the world and then to use it for something. I mean, I suppose even if all it is is you just wanna learn more about, like for me, I, I find like the subjects of, of math and science, like just endlessly fascinating and like the computing section I was looking at, I, I don't know much about like programming per se, but there is such a beauty. Like these underlying principles, like the, the organization of the world and the first level principles of like physics for instance, are just like baffling in the most glorious kind of way. How they all come together. So having somebody like teach you at a very like simplistic level, but allow you to grasp those concepts makes you just appreciate it leads me to doxology a lot when I see these things. So in a weird way, it ends up becoming maybe not a weird way and the right way. It becomes worship as often as I'm sitting at my desk and working through like a practice problem on like, you know, partial differential equation or, or derivatives is what I was working on today. And ah, it's just so good. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one. I, it's not be super nerdy, but you, are you ever like at your desk studying something? And it might not be like theological per se, but you just have a moment where you're overcome with some kind of worship. Do you know what I'm talking about? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, um, this we're the nerdiest people on the planet, but let's Jesse Schwamb: do it. Um, Tony Arsenal: when I find a really fun, interesting. Uh, Excel formula and I can get it to work right. Uh, and it, and then it just like everything unlocks. Like, I feel like I've unlocked all the knowledge in the universe. Um, but yeah, I hear you like the, the Excel thing is, is interesting to me because, like, math is just the description. Like it's just the fabric of reality is just the way we describe reality. But the fact that we can do basically just take math and do all these amazing things with it, uh, in a spreadsheet is really, uh, drives me to praise. Like I said, that's super nerdy, but it is. Oh, you're speaking my language. Jesse Schwamb: I, we have never understood each other better than just this moment right now. We, we had some real talk and, uh, a real moment. Tony Arsenal: Yes. Welcome to the Reformed math cast. Jesse Schwamb: We're so glad that you're here. Tony Arsenal: Yes. We're not gonna do any one plus one plus one equals one kinds of heretical math in, up in here. Jesse Schwamb: No. Tony Arsenal: Well, Jesse, I have a feeling that, excuse me. Wow. Jesse Schwamb: We don't edit anything out. Listen, I'm choked up too. It's it, listen, love ones just so emotional. The moment Tony and I are having it. We're gonna try our best right now to pivot to go into this text, but it's, it's tough because we were just really having something, something special. You got, you got to see there. But thank you for trying to Tony Arsenal: cover for me for that big cough. Jesse Schwamb: This is like presuppositional editing. You know, we don't actually do anything in post. It's not ex anti editing. It's, it's literally presuppositional. [00:15:52] Theological Discussion on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: But to that end, we are in Matthew 13. This is the main course. This is the reason why we're here. There's lots of reasons to worship, and one of them is to come before and admire and love our God who has given us his specific revelation and this incredible teaching of his son. And that's why we're hanging out in Matthew 13. So let me read, because we have just a couple of really sentences here, this really short parable and that way it'll catch us up and then we can just launch right back into we're, we're basically like, we're already in the rocket. Like we're in the stratosphere. We're, we're taking it all the way now. So this is Matthew chapter 13. Come hang out here. It's in the 24th verse. And this is what we find written for us. This is the word of the Lord. He put another parable before them saying. The Kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the weeds and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, then, do you want us to go and gather them? But he said, no less than gathering the weeds, you root up the weed along with them. Let both grow until the harvest. And at harvest time, I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but to gather the wheat into my barn. Tony Arsenal: That's good stuff. That's good stuff. Um, you know, we, we covered most of. I don't know, what do you wanna call it? The first order reading of the parable last week. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: On one level, the parable, uh, as Christ explains it, uh, a little bit down further in the chapter is extremely straightforward. It's almost out, it's almost an allegory. Each, each element of the parable has a, a, a figure that it's representing. And the main purpose of the story is that the world and specifically the church, um, is going to be a mixed body until the last days, until the end of time. And so there's, there's the Sons of God or the Sons of the Kingdom, uh, and then there's the sons of the evil one. And we talked a lot about how. These two figures in the parable, the, the, the weeds or the tears? Um, tears is a better word because it's a specific kind of, uh, specific kind of weed that looks very much like wheat at its immature stages. Right. And you can't actually discern the difference readily, uh, until the weed and the wheat has grown up next to each other. Um, and so, so part of the parable is that. The, the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the enemy, or the sons of the evil one, they don't look all that different in their early stages. And it's not until the sort of end culmination of their lives and the end culmination of things that they're able to be discerned and then therefore, um, the, the sons of the devil are, are reaped and they go off to their eternal judgment and the sons of the kingdom are, uh, are harvested and they go off to their eternal reward. What we wanted to talk about, and part of the reason that we split this into two episodes. Is that we sort of found ourselves spiraling or spiraling around a question about, uh, sort of about assurance, right? And false assurance, true assurance. And there is an eschatological element to this parable that I, I think we probably should at least touch on as we we go through it. Um, but I wanted to just read, um, it's been a little while since we've read the Westminster Confession on the show. So I wanted to read a little bit from the Westminster Confession. Um, this is from chapter 18, which is called of assurance of grace and salvation. This is sort of the answer to Jesse's question. Do the, do the tears know their tears or, or could they possibly think that their wheat? So this is, uh, section one of chapter eight. It says, although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presuppositions or presumptions of being in favor with God in the state of salvation. Which hope of their shall perish yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. And so we, in the reform tradition at least, which is where we find ourselves in the reform tradition, um, we would affirm that people can. Deceive themselves into believing that they're in proper relation with God. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Tony Arsenal: And so it's not the case that, uh, that the weeds always know they're weeds or think they're weeds. It's not even the case. And this was part of the parable. It's not even the case that the weeds can be easily distinguished even by themselves from, uh, from the weeds. So there is this call, uh, and this is a biblical call. There's a call to seek out assurance and to lay claim to it. That I think is, is worth talking about. But it's not as straightforward as simple proposition as like, yeah, I'm confident. Like it's not just like, right, it's not just mustering up confidence. There's more to it than that. So that's what I wanted to start with, with this parable is just maybe talking through that assurance. 'cause I, I would hate for us to go through this parable. And sort of leave people with maybe you're a weed and you don't know it. 'cause that's not right. That's not the biblical picture of assurance. Um, that's the, that's the Roman Catholic picture of assurance that like, yeah, there's no such thing as assurance and people might not realize, but assurance of salvation is actually one of the, one of the primary things that was recovered particularly by the Reformed in the Reformation. Um, and so I think we, we often sort of overlook it as maybe a secondary thing. Um, but it really is a significant doctrine, a significant feature of reformed theology. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I'm glad you said that because it is a, is a clear reminder. It's a clearing call as the performers put forth that it is. Under like the purview of the Christian to be able to claim the assurance by the blood of Christ in the application of the Holy Spirit in a way that's like fully orbed and fully stopped. So you can contrast that with, and really what was coming outta Catholicism or Rome at the time. And I was just speaking with a dear brother this past week who. Grew up in the Catholic church and he was recounting how his entire religious experience, even his entire relationship, if we can call it that in a kind of colloquial sense with God, was built around this sense of deep-seated guilt and lack of true performance, such that like assurance always seemed like this really vague concept that was never really fully manifested in anything that he did. Even while the church was saying, if you do these things, if you perform this way, if you ensure that you're taking care of your immortal sins and that you're seeking confession for all the venial stuff as well, that somehow you'll be made right, or sufficiently right. But if not, don't worry about it. There's always purgatory, but there'd be some earning that you'd have to accomplish there. Everywhere along the way. He just felt beaten down. So contrasting that with what we have here. I don't believe, as you're saying, Tony, that's Jesus' intention here to somehow beat up the sheep. I, I think it is, to correct something of what's being said about the world in which we live, but it's at the same time to say that there are some that are the TAs is to say there are some that are the children of God, right? That there are some that are fully crisply, clearly identified and securely resting in that identity without any kind of nervous or anxious energy that it might fall out of that state with God that, that in fact their identity is secure. And as I've been thinking about this this week, I, I'm totally with you because I think part of this just falls, the warning here is there's a little bit of the adventures in Romans one here that's waiting for us, that I like what you said about this idea of, of self deception and maybe like a. Subpart to this question would be, are the, are the terrors always nefarious in their lack of understanding? So we might say there's some that are purposely disruptive, that the enemy himself is, is promulgating or trying to bring forward his destruction, his chaos by way of these tears. But are, are there even a subgroup or another group, uh, co-terminus group or, you know, one in the same hierarchy where there's just a lot of self deception? I, I think that's probably where I fall in terms of just trying to explain that. Yes, I think it was present here is a real quantity, a real identity where they're self-deceived. Imagining themselves to be part of God's people, yet lacking that true saving faith. And this just, I'm gonna go in a couple places where I think everybody would expect in the scriptures, if we go to like Ephesians four, they're darkened and they're understanding alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them. And one Corinthians, when Paul writes, the natural person does not accept the things of the spirit of God, and he's not able to understand them because they're spiritually discerned. And then the book that follows the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. And of course then like everything in Romans one, so I bring all that up because E, even at the end, we're gonna get there, the Es, this eschatological reality when you know God is separating out the sheep and the goats. Still, we find this kind of same trope happening there. But the unregenerate, what I'm reading from this. Importantly is that the unregenerate, they're not merely ignorant, they're blinded, as we all were on point to the spiritual truth. Yeah. By nature and by Satan. That that is also his jam. He loves to blind, to lie, to kill, steal, and destroy. So thus, even if they're outwardly belonging to the church, they're outwardly belonging to the world. They're outwardly belonging to some kind of profession. They cannot perceive the reality of their lost condition apart from divine illumination. Who can, that might be stating the obvious, but I think that's like what we're getting after here. I I, I don't know if there's like any kind of like conspiracy here. It's simply that that is the natural state of affairs. So why wouldn't we expect that to be reflected again in the world and that side by side, we're gonna find that shoulder to shoulder. We are, there are the children of God, and there are those that remain blind and ignorant to the truth. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, it, again, I, I, um, I don't know why I'm surprised. Uh, I certainly shouldn't be surprised. Um. But Matthew is like a masterful storyteller Yeah. Here, right. He's a masterful, um, editor and narrator. Um, and he's, he's put together here, of course, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Um, and, and there's some good reason to think in the text we're not gonna get too, in the nitty gritty here, there's some good reason to think in the text that Christ actually delivered these parables as a set as well. So it's not just, it's not just Matthew coating these, although it could be. Um, but it, it seems like these were all delivered probably as like a common set of parables. And the reason I say that is because when we start to look at this parable and the one we previously went through, the parable of the soils, um, or the parable of the sower. Um, what we see is the answer to your question of why do some people, you know, why are some people deceived? Well, yes, there is secondary causation. The devil deceives them. They blind themselves. They, you know, suppress the, the, the truth and right unrighteousness. But on a, on a primary causation level, um, God is the one who is identi, is, is identifying who will be the sons of the, you know, devil and the sons of the kingdom. Mm-hmm. This is another, and yet another example of election is that the, the good sower sowed good seed, and the good seed was the elect and the enemy. Although in God's sovereignty, God is the one who determines this. The enemy is the one who sows the reprobate. Right? So all, all men. Star, and this is, I, I guess I didn't really intend to go here, but this is good evidence in my mind for, um, infra laps, Arianism versus super laps. Arianism, right infra laps, arianism or sub lapse. Arianism would say that God decrees, uh, to permit the fall and then he decrees to redeem some out of the fall, right? Logically speaking, not temporally speaking. Super laps. Arianism, which is the minority. It's the smaller portion of, of the historic tradition, although modern times, I think it's a little bit louder and a little bit more vocal, but super relapses. Arianism would argue that God, um, decrees. Sort of the, the decree of election and reprobation is logically prior to the decree of the fall. And so in, in that former or in the super laps area model, the fall becomes a means by which the reprobate are justly condemned. Not, um, not the cause of their condemnation, but a way to sort of justify the fact that they will be separated from God, right? Because of their reprobate. [00:28:36] Exploring the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares Tony Arsenal: I know that there's, there's probably some super lab streams that would nuance that differently and some that are probably just screaming straw man, uh, in a coffee shop somewhere and, and people are thinking you're crazy. Um, but by and large, that's actually a rel, a relatively accepted, um, explanation of it. There are certainly potential problems with, uh, sub, sub lapse agonism as well. But in this, in this parable, what we see is the people who are, um, who are elect, are sowed into the field and the people who are reprobate are also sowed into the field. And so God saves the people who are sewed into the field that are, they elect, he saves them out of this now mixed world by waiting and allowing them to grow up next to the reprobate, um, in sort of this mixed world setting. And then he redeems them out of that. Um, and, and, and so we have to sort of remember. Although it is a pretty strict, sort of allegorical type of parable, it's still a parable. So we shouldn't, we shouldn't always draw like direct one-to-one comparisons here. It's making a theological point, but, um, but it's important for us to re remember that, that it is ultimately, it is God who determines who is the elected and who is not. But it's, it's our sin. It's the devil deceiving us. It's the secondary causes that are responsible for the sons of the devil, right? It, the, the men come to the, to the sower and say, who is done this? He says it was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Right. Tony Arsenal: He doesn't say like, well, actually I put the seed there and so, you know, I'm, I, it's not an equal distribution. He's not sowing good seed and bad seed. He sows the good seed and the devil sows the bad seed. [00:30:24] Theological Implications and Assurance Tony Arsenal: Um, and, and that's a, I think that's an important theological point to make. And as far as assurance goes. We, we can't depend on our ability to perceive or sort of like discern election in a raw sense, right? We have to observe certain kinds of realities around us. Um, and, and primarily we have to depend on the mercy and, and saving faith that God gives us. That's right. Um, you know, our, our assurance of faith does not primarily come from fruit checking. Um, we have to do that. It's important, we're commanded to do it, and it serves as an important secondary evidence. But a, a, a person who wants to find assurance. Of salvation should first and foremost look to the promises of Christ and then depend on them. Um, and, and so that's, I think all of that's kind of wrapped up into this parable. It's, it's, it's amazing to me that we're only like two parables in, and we're already, you know, we're already talking about super lapse arianism and sub lapse arianism, and it's, it's amazing. I, I love this. I'm loving this series so far, and we're barely scratching the surface. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's all there. I think you're right to call that out. It strikes me, like, as you were speaking, it really just hit me higher that I think you're right. Really the foundation on this, like the hidden foundation is assurance and it's that assurance which splits the groups, or at least divides them, or it gives us, again, like the distinct, kind, discrete compartments or components of each of them. So. Again, I think it's help saying, 'cause we wanna be encouraging. That's, that's our whole point here is when the Apostle Peter says, be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and choosing of you. That herein we have the scripture saying to us, time and time again, be sure of what God has done in your life. Be confident in that very thing. And so if assurance is, as we're saying, that's the argument hypothesis we're making. That's the critical thing here. [00:32:11] False Assurance and True Faith Jesse Schwamb: Then the division between the children of God and the children of the devil is false versus true assurance. So the tears, I think what we're saying here, basically they typically live under false asserts. They may attend church, confess, belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical. It's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual. And of course, like just a few chapters before this, we hope those famous verses where Jesus himself drops the bomb and says, listen, many of you, he's talking to the people, the, the disciples around him, the crowds that we're gathering and thronging all about. He says, many of you're gonna say to me, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy your name? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me. These are not people who knew they were false, they thought they belonged to Christ. Their shock on judgment day is gonna reveal this profound self-deception. And that self-deception is wrapped up in a false type of assurance, a false righteousness. So I think one of the things that we can really come to terms with and grab a hold of is the fact that when we are. Confessing, repenting seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ. Then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally, Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance. [00:33:38] Historical Perspectives on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: You know, I was reading this week from Thomas Brooks and did incidentally come across this, a quote, an assurance and reminded me of this passage, and here's what he writes. You know, of course he's writing in like 16 hundreds, like mid 16 hundreds. It's wild, of course, but we shouldn't be surprised that what you're about to hear sounds like it could have been written today for us. In this conversation, but, uh, he writes, assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions. However, most Christians live between fears and hopes and hang, as it were, between heaven and hell. Sometimes they hope that their state is good. At other times they fear that their state is bad. Now they hope that all is well and that it shall go well. Well with them forever. Then they fear that they shall perish by the hand of such corruption or by the prevalency of such and such temptation. They're like a ship and a storm tossed here and there, and. I think that he's right about that. And I think the challenge there is to get away from that. I love where it starts, where he says, what wonderful turn of phrase assurance is the believer's arc or Noah, like, you know, we're sitting and the commotion, the destructions, the commotion, the confusions of all the world. That's why to get this right, to be encouraged by this passage, to be challenged by it is so critical because we're all looking for that arc. We all want to know that God has in fact arrested us so completely that no matter what befalls us, that everything, as we talked about before, all of our, all of the world, in fact is subservient to our salvation. But that's a real thing that cannot be snatched away from us because God has ordained it and intended it, built it, created it, and brought it to pass. And so I think that's all like in this passage, it's all the thing that's being called us to. So. I, I don't want us to get like too hung up. It's a good question, I think to ask and answer like we were trying to talk about here, but you're right. If we focus too much just on the like, let's gaff for these tears. Who are they? Like let's people's, like Readers Digest in People's magazine these tears. Like who are they? Do we have a list of them? Who do we think they are? How could it be me? Is it really me? Am I, am I anxious about that? Really what we should be saying is following what Peter calls us to do that is to be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and his choosing. So even there like our emphasis and focus, isn't it like you're saying Tony about like, let me do some fruit inventory. I got like a lot of good bananas. I got a lot of ripe pears. Like, look at the tree. This, this is good. Even there, the emphasis is to turn our eyes on Jesus, as it were, and to make certain about his work, his calling and his choosing of us. And I think when we do that, we're falling down in worship and in yielding and submission to him, rightfully acknowledging that the righteousness of Christ is the one that is always in every way alien to us and imputed. And that is what makes us sons and daughters of God, that good seed sown by Jesus himself. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna read, I wanna um, round out a few more paragraphs here out of the Westminster confession because I do think, you know, when we even talk about assurance, we're not even always all saying the exact same thing. And I think that's important because when we talk about assurance of faith, we need to be understanding that this is the rightful, not only the rightful possession of all Christians, but it's the rightful responsibility of all Christians to seek it. So here's, here's section two of that same chapter. It says, this certainty referring to assurance. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a, a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the spirit of adoption, witnessing with our hearts that we are the children of God, which spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption. So. One of the, the things that I think is, is important here is people read this and say the inward evidences of those graces unto which these promises are made. They read that and they think that it's referring to like good work and like spiritual renewal, but it's, it's not, it's the inward evidence of those graces unto which of the promises are made. So it's this inner, inner renewal. It's the spirit testifying to our spirit. And then, um, chapter, uh, section three here, it says. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it, yet being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given of God. He may without extraordinary revelation there, right there is response to Roman Catholicism in the right use of ordinary means at attain there unto. And therefore, it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence, to make his calling and election. Sure. And thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and in joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience. The proper fruits of this assurance so far is it from inclining men to looseness? Right. [00:38:53] The Role of Good Works in Assurance Tony Arsenal: So we often hear and and I, I think there are good, um, there are good reformed Christians that put. The emphasis of assurance on, or they, they put an overemphasis, in my opinion, on how good works function within our assurance. Right. They, they often will ask us to look to our good fruit as sort of, not the grounding, but as a strong evidence. But at least in terms of the confession here, the cheerfulness in the duties of obedience is the fruit of assurance. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Not Tony Arsenal: the cause or grounding of assurance. So rather than, this is what this last line says. It says so far, is it from inclining? Mental looseness assurance should drive us to obedience and fruitfulness in Christ. And so yes, it is in a certain sense an evidence because if that fruitfulness and obedience is absent from our lives, there's a good reason for us to question whether this infallible assurance is present in our lives. But the assurance is what drives us to this obedience. Um. You know, like, I think you could use the analogy of like a married couple. A married couple who is very secure in their relationship and in their, uh, love for one another and their faithfulness to each other is more likely to cheerfully serve and submit to each other and to respect each other and to sacrifice for each other than a couple that's maybe not so sure that the other person has their best interest in mind. That's or maybe isn't so sure that this thing is gonna work out. I think that's the same thing, like the sacrifice and the service that a husband, uh, performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him. That is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it. It's good evidence that that love exists, but it's not caused by it. And assurance here is the same kind of dynamic assurance is not. We can't assure ourselves of our salvation by doing good works. No matter how many good works you do, there are lots and lots of people who are not saved and who will not be saved, who do perfectly good works in appearance. Right. They have the, the outward appearance of godliness, but lack its power. Right, right. Out of right outta Paul, writing to Timothy there. Yes. So that's, that's important for us as we continue to parse all this out, is yes, the fruit is present. Yes. The wheat is to, is discernible from the tears by its final, fruitful status. Right? It grows up to be grain, which is fruitful rather than weeds and tears, which are only good to be burned, but it is not the fruit that causes it to be wheat. It's wheat that causes the fruit to grow. If, if it wasn't wheat, it wouldn't grow fruit, not because the fruit makes it grain, but because it is in fact wheat to start with. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah, that's right on. So I think like by summation we're kind of saying. At least the answer to this question. You know, do the tears know that they're tears? Yes and no. Some do, some don't. I think, yes, there are some that are gonna be consciously hypocritical, willfully rejecting Christ while pretending for worldly gain. I think that's, that's certainly plain to see. And at the same time, do the tears know the tears? Sometimes? No. There's self deceived under spiritual blindness and they have some kind of false assurance. And this idea of, again, coming in repentance before God and seeking humbly to submit to him is I think one of those signs of that kind of true assurance, not a false assurance. And you already stole where I was thinking of Tony by going to Second Timothy again. Thomas Brooks in precious remedies against Saint's device is one of like the best. Books ever. I know that he's really outspoken. He loves to harp on the fact that one of Satan's most effective snares is to make men and women content with a form of godliness without its power. Yeah. And that's often what we're talking about here, I think, is that Satan loves to fish in the shallow waters a profession. And really that can happen in any kind of church or religious culture, that there is this shallowness where that loves religious appearance, prayer, knowledge fellowship, but not the Christ behind them. And so whether we're looking to somebody like Brooks or Jonathan Edwards and we're trying to parse out what are our true affections, not in a way again, that somehow leans well, I feel enough, then somehow that justifies, not inwardly, but again, definitely trying to understand our conviction for conversion tears. For repentance that. Really what we're after is not like just the blessings of Christ, but Christ himself, which I think really leads us to this eschatological perspective then to round all everything out because you know, we talked about before, there's an old phrase, it's like everywhere. A lot of people talk in heaven. Not everybody's going there. And so this idea of like, people will talk about be so great to be there and it's sometimes this, the heaven that they speak of is like absent Christ, you know, as if like, if Christ wasn't there, at least in their perspective, it still wouldn't be half bad. And so I think that does lead us to understand what is this in gathering? What is this? You know, bringing everything into the barn and burning everything else up. And like you just said, if at the beginning you cannot tell the injurious weed aside from that beautiful kernel of wheat that's coming up, but if in the end you can see what's happening in the end, then that brings us all to consummation. What does it mean in this parable? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:44:19] Eschatological Judgment and Assurance Tony Arsenal: And, and I think this actually sort of forces us to grapple a little bit with, with another sort of persnickety feature of this parable that, that I think, I think personally sometimes gets overlooked is we are very quick to talk about this parable to be about the church. And it is. Right. And, and there's reasons to talk like that. But when Christ explains the parable, he doesn't say the field is the church. He says the field is the world. Right. And so we have to, we have to, we have to do a little bit of, um. We have to do a little bit of hermeneutics to understand that this is also speaking of the church, right? It's not as though the church is some hermetically sealed off body that the dynamics of the world and the, the weed and the tears like that, that doesn't happen in the church. But when we talk about the end of the age here, he says the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom. All causes of sin in all lawbreakers. Right? So, so the, the final eschatological judgment, it's all encompassing. And I dunno, maybe I'm, maybe I'm becoming a little bit post mill with this, um, the, the world is already the Kingdom of Christ. Right? Right. That's right. It, it's not, it's not just the church on earth that is the kingdom of Christ. And so when we talk about this eschatological reaping, um, what we see is, is very straightforward. There are those who are, uh, who belong to Christ, who were sown by him into the world, who were, uh, were tended by him, who were protected by him, who he intended to harvest from the very beginning, right? The good sower sows good seed into the field, and that good seed is and necessarily will be wheat. It's not as though, um, it's not as though, and again, this is one of those ways where like the parables sometimes, uh, are telling a little bit of a different story. Even though they're sharing some themes in the first parable, in the parable of the sower, he sows the same seed into the world. But the seed in that first parable is not the, is not the person receiving the seed. The seed is the one is the word of God. Yes. And so the word of God is sewn promiscuously, even to those who will be hard soil and who will be rocky soil and have thorns. The word of God is, is sewn to all of those people. Across the whole world in this parable. The seed that is the good seed that is sown is and always was going to be weed that was, or wheat, which was going to grow into fruitfulness and be gathered into the barn. Right? That was a foregone conclusion. The, the, when the sower decided to sow seed, all of that said he is the one who did that. He's the one that chose that. He's the one that will bring us to completion, right? And then also the ones that are not of his kingdom, the sons of the devil, they will also be reaped at the end. Actually we'll be reaped before the, you know, they'll be reaped and gathered and, and tossed into the furnace before the sons of the kingdom are gathered together. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: So it, again, this is a parable and even though this is Christ's explanation of the parable, I don't think that Christ was intending to give us like a strict timeline. Right. I don't think he was encouraging us to draw a chart and try to map out where this all happens in order. Um, I do think it's relevant that, that, at least in the explanation of this parable, I mentioned it last week, that, that the rap, the rapture is actually the wicked being raptured. They're the ones that are gathered and taken out of the world and cast into the fiery furnace before the, before the righteous are gathered together and, and brought into Christ Barn. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there's a great unmasking that's happening here in this final stage. I mean, that's critically the point. I think there's a lot of stuff we could talk about open handedly and kind of hypothesize or theorize what it means. But what is plain, I think, is that there's this unmasking, this unveiling of the reality of the light of Christ's perfect judgment. But that judgment is for both parties Here it is coming and what was hidden beneath outward religion or more, a facade is gonna be revealed with eternal clarity. That's just the reality. It is coming. So in some ways it pairs. I think at least well in this, well purposely of course in this teaching because Jesus is saying, hold on, like we talked about last time. Do this is not for you to judge. You are ill-equipped. You are not skilled enough to discern this. And therefore though, you wanna go in hot and get spicy and try to throw out all the weeds. Wait for the right time. Wait for the one like you're saying, Tony has from all of eternity past intended for it to be this way. Super intending his will over all things in the casting of the seed. And as we say, Philippians, of course, finishing that good work, which was started, he will finish. It is God's two finish again. And so he says, listen, that day is coming. There's gonna be a great unmasking. Uh, get ready for it. And the scriptures bear witness to that in so many other ways. So. There's such a journey in these like handful of verses, isn't there? I mean, it's really wild. The things that not like we come up with or we read into the text, but as we sit in it a little bit, as we just spend even a cursory amount of time letting it pour over us, that we find there's like a conviction in a weight in these things that are beyond just the story and beyond just even like the illustrations themselves. What we find is, again, it's as if Jesus himself in his brilliance, of course, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is illuminating the mind in the spirit to open up our conception, understanding of the kingdom of God by bringing it to us through his perspective in our own terms, of course, which is both our language and like the context of the world in which we live, and that simple example of farming and seed. And again, even just that there are these interest weeds that look like wheat. I went on this like rabbit hole this week and did a lot of research on like tears and Yeah, like especially people in like the Midwest United States who like know a lot more about agriculture than I do have a lot to say about this. It's not just like we shouldn't be surprised like. Isn't it incredible that like there are actually weeds out there that look like, yeah, it's a brilliance of just knowing that this teaching is so finely tuned. Like we can even just talk about that. Like the world is finely tuned. This teaching is so finely tuned to these grant theological principles that we can at one point be children and appropriate them enough and assume them into our own intellectual capacity so that we can trust in them. And yet even as like adults with like, let's say like the greatest gift of intellectual capacity, still find that we cannot get to the bottom of them because they're so deep. They draw us into these really, really grand vistas or really like extremely deep cold theological waters. And I just find. That I am in awe then of what Jesus is saying here because there's a truth for us in assurance that we ought to clinging to. And there's also like stuff that we should come back to. We shouldn't just stop it here and put it out of our minds until the next time we, we want to just be stimulated by something that's interesting or that we want to just grab somebody and shake them cage style, cage two style and say like, look at this great thing that I just learned about this, this particular parable. But instead, there's so much here for us to meditate on. And in that, I think rather than the Christian finding fear in this parable, what they should find is great comfort. We should be Noah alike sitting in the ark saying, it is well with my soul. And our reason for that is because we know God has cast a seed through his son Jesus Christ. And to be a child, a child of God is the greatest thing in all the universe. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I, I think that, um, transitions nicely to, uh, I'll make this point quick because we're coming up on time here. Um. [00:52:04] Christ's Divinity and Sovereignty Tony Arsenal: The other little subtle thing that Christ does here in this parable is he, he absolutely asserts his divinity and sovereignty overall creation. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Yep. Tony Arsenal: Right. It, it's almost like a throw. There's a couple little like lines that are almost throwaway lines, right in the, the first, the beginning of the parable here. Um, the parable itself, uh, he says, um, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed into a field. And then he says, um, the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, right? And then when he interprets the parable, he says, well, the, the servants are, the field is the world, right? So he's the master of the world, and the servants are the angels. So he's the master of the angels. And then if, if there was any doubt left in your mind. Says in verse 41, the son of man will send his angels. That's right. And they will gather out of his kingdom, which is the world, all the causes of sin and all lawbreakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. Right? So we have this, this robust picture that there is election. The the good sower sows good seed into the world, and the good seed will necessarily grow into wheat and will be preserved and protected and ultimately harvest Well, why can we have assurance that that will be the case? Well, because the master of the house is the son of man who is the Lord of the universe and the creator of all things. And his angels do his will. That's right. So, so the whole thing is all wrapped up. Why can we have assurance? Because God is a good God and Christ is a good savior, and the savior of the world is the creator of the universe, right? If any of those facts were not true. Then we couldn't have assurance. If God wasn't good, then maybe he's lying. If Christ wasn't the savior of the world or the God of the universe, the creator of the universe, then he wasn't worthy to be the one who saves. All of this is wrapped up in the parables, and this is what's so exciting about the parables. In most of the instances that we look up, especially of the sort of longer parables, these kinds of dynamics are there where it's not just a simple story making a simple point, it is making one primary point. Usually there's one primary point that a, that a parable is making. But in order to make that primary point, there's all these supporting points and supporting things that have to be the case. If the, if the good sower was not the master of the house and a, a competent, uh, a competent landowner who knew the difference between wheat and weeds, even at the early stage, right? His, his servants go and go, what happened? What's with all of these weeds? They can tell the difference somehow, Jesse Schwamb: right? Tony Arsenal: He's immediately able to go, well, this was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Tony Arsenal: And while they're bumbling around going, should we go rip it all up and start over? He is like, no, no, no, no. Just wait until, wait until it all grows up together. And when that happens, the Reapers will come and they'll take care of it and they'll do it in my direction, right? Because he's competent, he's the savior, he's the creator, he's the good master, he is the good sower. Um, we can be confi

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Pam Harris, Exploring the Power & Purpose of Number Strings ROUNDING UP: SEASON 4 | EPISODE 4 I've struggled when I have a new strategy I want my students to consider and despite my best efforts, it just doesn't surface organically. While I didn't want to just tell my students what to do, I wasn't sure how to move forward. Then I discovered number strings.  Today, we're talking with Pam Harris about the ways number strings enable teachers to introduce new strategies while maintaining opportunities for students to discover important relationships.  BIOGRAPHY Pam Harris, founder and CEO of Math is Figure-out-able™, is a mom, a former high school math teacher, a university lecturer, an author, and a mathematics teacher educator. Pam believes real math is thinking mathematically, not just mimicking what a teacher does. Pam helps leaders and teachers to make the shift that supports students to learn real math. RESOURCES Young Mathematicians at Work by Catherine Fosnot and Maarten Dolk  Procedural fluency in mathematics: Reasoning and decision-making, not rote application of procedures position by the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics Bridges number string example from Grade 5, Unit 3, Module 1, Session 1 (BES login required) Developing Mathematical Reasoning: Avoiding the Trap of Algorithms by Pamela Weber Harris and Cameron Harris Math is Figure-out-able!™ Problem Strings TRANSCRIPT Mike Wallus: Welcome to the podcast, Pam. I'm really excited to talk with you today. Pam Harris: Thanks, Mike. I'm super glad to be on. Thanks for having me. Mike: Absolutely.  So before we jump in, I want to offer a quick note to listeners. The routine we're going to talk about today goes by several different names in the field. Some folks, including Pam, refer to this routine as “problem strings,” and other folks, including some folks at The Math Learning Center, refer to them as “number strings.” For the sake of consistency, we'll use the term “strings” during our conversation today.  And Pam, with that said, I'm wondering if for listeners, without prior knowledge, could you briefly describe strings? How are they designed? How are they intended to work? Pam: Yeah, if I could tell you just a little of my history. When I was a secondary math teacher and I dove into research, I got really curious: How can we do the mental actions that I was seeing my son and other people use that weren't the remote memorizing and mimicking I'd gotten used to?  I ran into the work of Cathy Fosnot and Maarten Dolk, and [their book] Young Mathematicians at Work, and they had pulled from the Netherlands strings. They called them “strings.” And they were a series of problems that were in a certain order. The order mattered, the relationship between the problems mattered, and maybe the most important part that I saw was I saw students thinking about the problems and using what they learned and saw and heard from their classmates in one problem, starting to let that impact their work on the next problem. And then they would see that thinking made visible and the conversation between it and then it would impact how they thought about the next problem. And as I saw those students literally learn before my eyes, I was like, “This is unbelievable!” And honestly, at the very beginning, I didn't really even parse out what was different between maybe one of Fosnot's rich tasks versus her strings versus just a conversation with students. I was just so enthralled with the learning because what I was seeing were the kind of mental actions that I was intrigued with. I was seeing them not only happen live but grow live, develop, like they were getting stronger and more sophisticated because of the series of the order the problems were in, because of that sequence of problems. That was unbelievable. And I was so excited about that that I began to dive in and get more clear on: What is a string of problems?  The reason I call them “problem strings” is I'm K–12. So I will have data strings and geometry strings and—pick one—trig strings, like strings with functions in algebra. But for the purposes of this podcast, there's strings of problems with numbers in them. Mike: So I have a question, but I think I just want to make an observation first. The way you described that moment where students are taking advantage of the things that they made sense of in one problem and then the next part of the string offers them the opportunity to use that and to see a set of relationships. I vividly remember the first time I watched someone facilitate a string and feeling that same way, of this routine really offers kids an opportunity to take what they've made sense of and immediately apply it. And I think that is something that I cannot say about all the routines that I've seen, but it was really so clear. I just really resonate with that experience of, what will this do for children? Pam: Yeah, and if I can offer an additional word in there, it influences their work. We're taking the major relationships, the major mathematical strategies, and we're high-dosing kids with them. So we give them a problem, maybe a problem or two, that has a major relationship involved. And then, like you said, we give them the next one, and now they can notice the pattern, what they learned in the first one or the first couple, and they can let it influence. They have the opportunity for it to nudge them to go, “Hmm. Well, I saw what just happened there. I wonder if it could be useful here. I'm going to tinker with that. I'm going to play with that relationship a little bit.” And then we do it again. So in a way, we're taking the relationships that I think, for whatever reason, some of us can wander through life and we could run into the mathematical patterns that are all around us in the low dose that they are all around us, but many of us don't pick up on that low dose and connect them and make relationships and then let it influence when we do another problem.  We need a higher dose. I needed a higher dose of those major patterns. I think most kids do. Problem strings or number strings are so brilliant because of that sequence and the way that the problems are purposely one after the other. Give students the opportunity to, like you said, apply what they've been learning instantly [snaps]. And then not just then, but on the next problem and then sometimes in a particular structure we might then say, “Mm, based on what you've been seeing, what could you do on this last problem?” And we might make that last problem even a little bit further away from the pattern, a little bit more sophisticated, a little more difficult, a little less lockstep, a little bit more where they have to think outside the box but still could apply that important relationship. Mike: So I have two thoughts, Pam, as I listen to you talk.  One is that for both of us, there's a really clear payoff for children that we've seen in the way that strings are designed and the way that teachers can use them to influence students' thinking and also help kids build a recognition or high-dose a set of relationships that are really important.  The interesting thing is, I taught kindergarten through second grade for most of my teaching career, and you've run the gamut. You've done this in middle school and high school. So I think one of the things that might be helpful is to share a few examples of what a string could look like at a couple different grade levels. Are you OK to share a few? Pam: You bet. Can I tack on one quick thing before I do? Mike: Absolutely. Pam: You mentioned that the payoff is huge for children. I'm going to also suggest that one of the things that makes strings really unique and powerful in teaching is the payoff for adults. Because let's just be clear, most of us—now, not all, but most of us, I think—had a similar experience to me that we were in classrooms where the teacher said, “Do this thing.” That's the definition of math is for you to rote memorize these disconnected facts and mimic these procedures. And for whatever reason, many of us just believed that and we did it. Some people didn't. Some of us played with relationships and everything. Regardless, we all kind of had the same learning experience where we may have taken at different places, but we still saw the teacher say, “Do these things. Rote memorize. Mimic.”  And so as we now say to ourselves, “Whoa, I've just seen how cool this can be for students, and we want to affect our practice.” We want to take what we do, do something—we now believe this could be really helpful, like you said, for children, but doing that's not trivial. But strings make it easier. Strings are, I think, a fantastic differentiated kind of task for teachers because a teacher who's very new to thinking and using relationships and teaching math a different way than they were taught can dive in and do a problem string. Learn right along with your students. A veteran teacher, an expert teacher who's really working on their teacher moves and really owns the landscape of learning and all the things still uses problem strings because they're so powerful. Like, anybody across the gamut can use strings—I just said problem strings, sorry—number strengths—[laughs] strings, all of us no matter where we are in our teaching journey can get a lot out of strings. Mike: So with all that said, let's jump in. Let's talk about some examples across the elementary span. Pam: Nice. So I'm going to take a young learner, not our youngest, but a young learner. I might ask a question like, “What is 8 plus 10?” And then if they're super young learners, I expect some students might know that 10 plus a single digit is a teen, but I might expect many of the students to actually say “8, 9, 10, 11, 12,” or “10, 11,” and they might count by ones given—maybe from the larger, maybe from the whatever. But anyway, we're going to kind of do that. I'm going to get that answer from them. I'm going to write on the board, “8 plus 10 is 18,” and then I would have done some number line work before this, but then I'm going to represent on the board: 8 plus 10, jump of 10, that's 18. And then the next problem's going to be something like 8 plus 9. And I'm going to say, “Go ahead and solve it any way you want, but I wonder—maybe you could use the first problem, maybe not.” I'm just going to lightly suggest that you consider what's on the board. Let them do whatever they do. I'm going to expect some students to still be counting. Some students are going to be like, “Oh, well I can think about 9 plus 8 counting by ones.” I think by 8—”maybe I can think about 8 plus 8. Maybe I can think about 9 plus 9.” Some students are going to be using relationships, some are counting. Kids are over the map.  When I get an answer, they're all saying, like, 17. Then I'm going to say, “Did anybody use the first problem to help? You didn't have to, but did anybody?” Then I'm going to grab that kid. And if no one did, I'm going to say, “Could you?” and pause.  Now, if no one sparks at that moment, then I'm not going to make a big deal of it. I'll just go, “Hmm, OK, alright,” and I'll do the next problem. And the next problem might be something like, “What's 5 plus 10?” Again, same thing, we're going to get 15. I'm going to draw it on the board.  Oh, I should have mentioned: When we got to the 8 plus 9, right underneath that 8, jump, 10 land on 18, I'm going to draw an 8 jump 9, shorter jump. I'm going to have these lined up, land on the 17. Then I might just step back and go, “Hmm. Like 17, that's almost where the 18 was.” Now if kids have noticed, if somebody used that first problem, then I'm going to say, “Well, tell us about that.” “Well, miss, we added 10 and that was 18, but now we're adding 1 less, so it's got to be 1 less.” And we go, “Well, is 17 one less than 18? Huh, sure enough.” Then I give the next set of problems. That might be 5 plus 10 and then 5 plus 9, and then I might do 7 plus 10. Maybe I'll do 9 next. 9 plus 10 and then 9 plus 9. Then I might end that string. The next problem, the last problem might be, “What is 7 plus 9?” Now notice I didn't give the helper. So in this case I might go, “Hey, I've kind of gave you plus 10. A lot of you use that to do plus 9. I gave you plus 10. Some of you use that to do plus 9, I gave you plus 10. Some of you used that plus 9. For this one, I'm not giving you a helper. I wonder if you could come up with your own helper.”  Now brilliantly, what we've done is say to students, “You've been using what I have up here, or not, but could you actually think, ‘What is the pattern that's happening?' and create your own helper?” Now that's meta. Right? Now we're thinking about our thinking. I'm encouraging that pattern recognition in a different way. I'm asking kids, “What would you create?” We're going to share that helper. I'm not even having them solve the problem. They're just creating that helper and then we can move from there.  So that's an example of a young string that actually can grow up. So now I can be in a second grade class and I could ask a similar [question]: “Could you use something that's adding a bit too much to back up?” But I could do that with bigger numbers. So I could start with that 8 plus 10, 8 plus 9, but then the next pair might be 34 plus 10, 34 plus 9. But then the next pair might be 48 plus 20 and 48 plus 19. And the last problem of that string might be something like 26 plus 18. Mike: So in those cases, there's this mental scaffolding that you're creating. And I just want to mark this. I have a good friend who used to tell me that part of teaching mathematics is you can lead the horse to water, you can show them the water, they can look at it, but darn it, do not push their head in the water. And I think what he meant by that is “You can't force it,” right?  But you're not doing that with a string. You're creating a set of opportunities for kids to notice. You're doing all kinds of implicit things to make structure available for kids to attend to—and yet you're still allowing them the ability to use the strategies that they have. We might really want them to notice that, and that's beautiful about a string, but you're not forcing. And I think it's worth saying that because I could imagine that's a place where folks might have questions, like, “If the kids don't do the thing that I'm hoping that they would do, what should I do?” Pam: Yeah, that's a great question. Let me give you another example. And in that example I'll talk about that.  So especially as the kids get older, I'm going to use the same kind of relationship. It's maybe easier for people to hang on to if I stay with the same sort of relationship. So I might say, “Hey everybody. 7 times 8. That's a fact I'm noticing most of us just don't have [snaps] at our fingertips. Let's just work on that. What do you know?” I might get a couple of strategies for kids to think about 7 times 8. We all agree it's 56.  Then I might say, “What's 70 times 8?” And then let kids think about that. Now, this would be the first time I do that, but if we've dealt with scaling times 10 at all, if I have 10 times the number of whatever the things is, then often kids will say, “Well, I've got 10 times 7 is 70, so then 10 times 56 is 560.” And then the next problem might be, “I wonder if you could think about 69 times 8. If we've got 70 eights, can I use that to help me think about 69 eights?” And I'm saying that in a very specific way to help ping on prior knowledge. So then I might do something similar. Well, let's pick another often missed facts, I don't know, 6 times 9. And then we could share some strategies on how kids are thinking about that. We all agree it's 54. And then I might say, “Well, could you think about 6 times 90?” I'm going to talk about scaling up again. So that would be 540. Now I'm going really fast. But then I might say, “Could we use that to help us think about 6 times 89?” I don't know if you noticed, but I sort of swapped. I'm not thinking about 90 sixes to 89 sixes. Now I'm thinking about 6 nineties to help me think about 6 eighty-nines. So that's a little bit of a—we have to decide how we're going to deal with that. I'll kind of mess around with that. And then I might have what we call that clunker problem at the end. “Notice that I've had a helper: 7 times 8, 70 times 8. A lot of you use that to help you think about 69 times 8. Then I had a helper: 6 times 9, 6 times 90. A lot of you use that to help you think about 6 times 89. What if I don't give you those helpers? What if I had something like”—now I'm making this up off the cuff here, like—“9 times 69. 9 times 69. Could you use relationships we just did?”  Now notice, Mike, I might've had kids solving all those problems using an algorithm. They might've been punching their calculator, but now I'm asking the question, “Could you come up with these helper problems?” Notice how I'm now inviting you into a different space. It's not about getting an answer. I'm inviting you into, “What are the patterns that we've been establishing here?” And so what would be those two problems that would be like the patterns we've just been using? That's almost like saying when you're out in the world and you hit a problem, could you say to yourself, “Hmm, I don't know that one, but what do I know? What do I know that could help me get there?” And that's math-ing. Mike: So, you could have had a kid say, “Well, I'm not sure about how—I don't know the answer to that, but I could do 9 times 60, right?” Or “I could do 10 times”—I'm thinking—“10 times 69.” Correct? Pam: Yes, yes. In fact, when I gave that clunker problem, 9 times 69, I said to myself, “Oh, I shouldn't have said 9 because now you could go either direction.” You could either “over” either way. To find 9 I can do 10, or to find 69 I can do 70. And then I thought, “Ah, we'll go with it because you can go either way.” So I might want to focus it, but I might not. And this is a moment where a novice could just throw it out there and then almost be surprised. “Whoa, they could go either direction.” And an expert could plan, and be like, “Is this the moment where I want lots of different ways to go? Or do I want to focus, narrow it a little bit more, be a little bit more explicit?” It's not that I'm telling kids, but I'm having an explicit goal. So I'm maybe narrowing the field a little bit. And maybe the problem could have been 7 times 69, then I wouldn't have gotten that other “over,” not the 10 to get 9. Does that make sense? Mike: It absolutely does. What you really have me thinking about is NCTM's [National Council of Teachers of Mathematics'] definition of “fluency,” which is “accuracy, efficiency, and flexibility.” And the flexibility that I hear coming out of the kinds of things that kids might do with a string, it's exciting to imagine that that's one of the outcomes you could get from engaging with strings. Pam: Absolutely. Because if you're stuck teaching memorizing algorithms, there's no flexibility, like none, like zilch. But if you're doing strings like this, kids have a brilliant flexibility. And one of the conversations I'd want to have here, Mike, is if a kid came up with 10 times 69 to help with 9 times 69, and a different kid came up with 9 times 70 to help with 9 times 69, I would want to just have a brief conversation: “Which one of those do you like better, class, and why?” Not that one is better than the other, but just to have the comparison conversation. So the kids go, “Huh, I have access to both of those. Well, I wonder when I'm walking down the street, I have to answer that one: Which one do I want my brain to gravitate towards next time?” And that's mathematical behavior. That's mathematical disposition to do one of the strands of proficiency. We want that productive disposition where kids are thinking to themselves, “I own relationships. I just got to pick a good one here to—what's the best one I could find here?” And try that one, then try that one. “Ah, I'll go with this one today.” Mike: I love that.  As we were talking, I wanted to ask you about the design of the string, and you started to use some language like “helper problems” and “the clunker.” And I think that's really the nod to the kinds of features that you would want to design into a string. Could you talk about either a teacher who's designing their own string—what are some of the features?—or a teacher who's looking at a string that they might find in a book that you've written or that they might find in, say, the Bridges curriculum? What are some of the different problems along the way that really kind of inform the structure? Pam: So you might find it interesting that over time, we've identified that there's at least five major structures to strings, and the one that I just did with you is kind of the easiest one to facilitate. It's the easiest one to understand where it's going, and it's the helper-clunker structure. So the helper-clunker structure is all about, “I'm going to give you a helper problem that we expect all kids can kind of hang on.” They have some facility with, enough that everybody has access to. Then we give you a clunker that you could use that helper to inform how you could solve that clunker problem. In the first string I did with you, I did a helper, clunker, helper, clunker, helper, clunker, clunker. And the second one we did, I did helper, helper, clunker, helper, helper, clunker, clunker. So you can mix and match kind of helpers and clunkers in that, but there are other major structures of strings. If you're new to strings, I would dive in and do a lot of helper-clunker strings first. But I would also suggest—I didn't create my own strings for a long time. I did prewritten [ones by] Cathy Fosnot from the Netherlands, from the Freudenthal Institute. I was doing their strings to get a feel for the mathematical relationships for the structure of a string. I would watch videos of teachers doing it so I could get an idea of, “Oh, that move right there made all the difference. I see how you just invited kids in, not demand what they do.” The idea of when to have paper and pencil and when not, and just lots of different things can come up that if you're having to write the string as well, create the string, that could feel insurmountable.  So I would invite anybody out listening that's like, “Whoa, this seems kind of complicated,” feel free to facilitate someone else's prewritten strings. Now I like mine. I think mine are pretty good. I think Bridges has some pretty good ones. But I think you'd really gain a lot from facilitating prewritten strings.  Can I make one quick differentiation that I'm running into more and more? So I have had some sharp people say to me, “Hey, sometimes you have extra problems in your string. Why do you have extra problems in your string?” And I'll say—well, at first I said, “What do you mean?” Because I didn't know what they were talking about. Are you telling me my string's bad? Why are you dogging my string? But what they meant was, they thought a string was the process a kid—or the steps, the relationships a kid used to solve the last problem. Does that make sense? Mike: It does. Pam: And they were like, “You did a lot of work to just get that one answer down there.” And I'm like, “No, no, no, no, no, no. A problem string or a number string, a string is an instructional routine. It is a lesson structure. It's a way of teaching. It's not a record of the relationships a kid used to solve a problem.” In fact, a teacher just asked—we run a challenge three times a year. It's free. I get on and just teach. One of the questions that was asked was, “How do we help our kids write their own strings?” And I was like, “Oh, no, kids don't write strings. Kids solve problems using relationships.” And so I think what the teachers were saying was, “Oh, I could use that relationship to help me get this one. Oh, and then I can use that to solve the problem.” As if, then, the lesson's structure, the instructional routine of a string was then what we want kids to do is use what they know to logic their way through using mathematical relationships and connections to get answers and to solve problems. That record is not a string, that record is a record of their work. Does that make sense, how there's a little difference there? Mike: It totally does, but I think that's a good distinction. And frankly, that's a misunderstanding that I had when I first started working with strings as well. It took me a while to realize that the point of a string is to unveil a set of relationships and then allow kids to take them up and use them. And really it's about making these relationships or these problem solving strategies sticky, right? You want them to stick. We could go back to what you said. We're trying to high-dose a set of relationships that are going to help kids with strategies, not only in this particular string, but across the mathematical work they're doing in their school life. Pam: Yes, very well said. So for example, we did an addition “over” relationship in the addition string that I talked through, and then we did a multiplication “over” set of relationships and multiplication. We can do the same thing with subtraction. We could have a subtraction string where the helper problem is to subtract a bit too much. So something like 42 minus 20, and then the next problem could be 42 minus 19. And we're using that: I'm going to subtract a bit too much and then how do you adjust? And hoo, after you've been thinking about addition “over,” subtraction “over” is quite tricky. You're like, “Wait, why are we adding what we're subtracting?” And it's not about teaching kids a series of steps. It's really helping them reason. “Well, if I give you—if you owe me 19 bucks and I give you a $20 bill, what are we going to do?” “Oh, you've got to give me 1 back.” Now that's a little harder today because kids don't mess around with money. So we might have to do something that feels like they can—or help them feel money. That's my personal preference. Let's do it with money and help them feel money.  So one of the things I think is unique to my work is as I dove in and started facilitating other people's strings and really building my mathematical relationships and connections, I began to realize that many teachers I worked with, myself included, thought, “Whoa, there's just this uncountable, innumerable wide universe of all the relationships that are out there, and there's so many strategies, and anything goes, and they're all of equal value.” And I began to realize, “No, no, no, there's only a small set of major relationships that lead to a small set of major strategies.” And if we can get those down, kids can solve any problem that's reasonable to solve without a calculator, but in the process, building their brains to reason mathematically. And that's really our goal, is to build kids' brains to reason mathematically. And in the process we're getting answers. Answers aren't our goal. We'll get answers, sure. But our goal is to get them to build that small set of relationships because that small set of strategies now sets them free to logic their way through problems. And bam, we've got kids math-ing using the mental actions of math-ing. Mike: Absolutely. You made me think about the fact that there's a set of relationships that I can apply when I'm working with numbers Under 20. There's a set of relationships, that same set of relationships, I can apply and make use of when I'm working with multidigit numbers, when I'm working with decimals, when I'm working with fractions. It's really the relationships that we want to expose and then generalize and recognize this notion of going over or getting strategically to a friendly number and then going after that or getting to a friendly number and then going back from that. That's a really powerful strategy, regardless of whether you're talking about 8 and 3 or whether you're talking about adding unit fractions together. Strings allow us to help kids see how that idea translates across different types of numbers. Pam: And it's not trivial when you change a type of number or the number gets bigger. It's not trivial for kids to take this “over” strategy and to be thinking about something like 2,467 plus 1,995—and I know I just threw a bunch of numbers out, on purpose. It's not trivial for them to go, “What do I know about those numbers? Can I use some of these relationships I've been thinking about?” Well, 2,467, that's not really close to a friendly number. Well, 1,995 is. Bam. Let's just add 2,000. Oh, sweet. And then you just got to back up 5. It's not trivial for them to consider, “What do I know about these two numbers, and are they close to something that I could use?” That's the necessary work of building place value and magnitude and reasonableness. We've not known how to do that, so in some curriculum we create our whole extra unit that's all about place value reasonableness. Now we have kids that are learning to rote memorize, how to estimate by round. I mean there's all this crazy stuff that we add on when instead we could actually use strings to help kids build that stuff naturally kind of ingrained as we are learning something else.  Can I just say one other thing that we did in my new book? Developing Mathematical Reasoning: Avoiding the Trap of Algorithms. So I actually wrote it with my son, who is maybe the biggest impetus to me diving into the research and figuring out all of this math-ing and what it means. He said, as we were writing, he said, “I think we could make the point that algorithms don't help you learn a new algorithm.” If you learn the addition algorithm and you get good at it and you can do all the addition and columns and all the whatever, and then when you learn the subtraction algorithm, it's a whole new thing. All of a sudden it's a new world, and you're doing different—it looks the same at the beginning. You line those numbers still up and you're still working on that same first column, but boy, you're doing all sorts—now you're crossing stuff out. You're not just little ones, and what? Algorithms don't necessarily help you learn the next algorithm. It's a whole new experience. Strategies are synergistic. If you learn a strategy, that helps you learn the next set of relationships, which then refines to become a new strategy. I think that's really helpful to know, that we can—strategies build on each other. There's synergy involved. Algorithms, you got to learn a new one every time. Mike: And it turns out that memorizing the dictionary of mathematics is fairly challenging. Pam: Indeed [laughs], indeed. I tried hard to memorize that. Yeah. Mike: You said something to me when we were preparing for this podcast that I really have not been able to get out of my mind, and I'm going to try to approximate what you said. You said that during the string, as the teacher and the students are engaging with it, you want students' mental energy primarily to go into reasoning. And I wonder if you could just explicitly say, for you at least, what does that mean and what might that look like on a practical level? Pam: So I wonder if you're referring to when teachers will say, “Do we have students write? Do we not have them write?” And I will suggest: “It depends. It's not if they write; it's what they write that's important.”  What do I mean by that? What I mean is if we give kids paper and pencil, there is a chance that they're going to be like, “Oh, thou shalt get an answer. I'm going to write these down and mimic something that I learned last year.” And put their mental energy either into mimicking steps or writing stuff down. They might even try to copy what you've been representing strategies on the board. And their mental effort either goes into mimicking, or it might go into copying.  What I want to do is free students up [so] that their mental energy is, how are you reasoning? What relationships are you using? What's occurring to you? What's front and center and sort of occurring? Because we're high-dosing you with patterns, we're expecting those to start happening, and I'm going to be saying things, giving that helper problem. “Oh, that's occurring to you? It's almost like it's your idea—even though I just gave you the helper problem!” It's letting those ideas bubble up and percolate naturally and then we can use those to our advantage. So that's what I mean when [I say] I want mental energy into “Hmm, what do I know, and how can I use what I know to logic my way through this problem?” And that's math-ing. Those are the mental actions of mathematicians, and that's where I want kids' mental energy. Mike: So I want to pull this string a little bit further. Pun 100% intended there. Apologies to listeners.  What I find myself thinking about is there've got to be some do's and don'ts for how to facilitate a string that support the kind of reasoning and experience that you've been talking about. I wonder if you could talk about what you've learned about what you want to do as a facilitator when you're working with a string and maybe what you don't want to do. Pam: Yeah, absolutely. So a good thing to keep in mind is you want to keep a string snappy. You don't want a lot of dead space. You don't want to put—one of the things that we see novice, well, even sometimes not-novice, teachers do, that's not very helpful, is they will put the same weight on all the problems.  So I'll just use the example 8 plus 10, 8 plus 9, they'll—well, let me do a higher one. 7 times 8, 70 times 8. They'll say, “OK, you guys, 7 times 8. Let's really work on that. That's super hard.” And kids are like, “It's 56.” Maybe they have to do a little bit of reasoning to get it, because it is an often missed fact, but I don't want to land on it, especially—what was the one we did before? 34 plus 10. I don't want to be like, “OK, guys, phew.” If the last problem on my string is 26 plus 18, I don't want to spend a ton of time. “All right, everybody really put all your mental energy in 36 plus 10” or whatever I said. Or, let's do the 7 times 8 one again. So, “OK, everybody, 7 times 8, how are you guys thinking about that?” Often we're missing it. I might put some time into sharing some strategies that kids use to come up with 7 times 8 because we know it's often missed. But then when I do 70 times 8, if I'm doing this string, kids should have some facility with times 10. I'm not going to be like, “OK. Alright, you guys, let's see what your strategies are. Right? Everybody ready? You better write something down on your paper. Take your time, tell your neighbor how….” Like, it's times 10. So you don't want to put the same weight—as in emphasis and time, wait time—either one on the problems that are kind of the gimmes, we're pretty sure everybody's got this one. Let's move on and apply it now in the next one. So there's one thing. Keep it snappy. If no one has a sense of what the patterns are, it's probably not the right problem string. Just bail on it, bail on it. You're like, “Let me rethink that. Let me kind of see what's going on.” If, on the other hand, everybody's just like, “Well, duh, it's this” and “duh, it's that,” then it's also probably not the right string. You probably want to up the ante somehow.  So one of the things that we did in our problem string books is we would give you a lesson and give you what we call the main string, and we would write up that and some sample dialogs and what the board could look like when you're done and lots of help. But then we would give you two echo strings. Here are two strings that get at the same relationships with about the same kind of numbers, but they're different and it will give you two extra experiences to kind of hang there if you're like, “Mm, I think my kids need some more with exactly this.” But we also then gave you two next-step strings that sort of up the ante. These are just little steps that are just a little bit more to crunch on before you go to the next lesson that's a bit of a step up, that's now going to help everybody increase. Maybe the numbers got a little bit harder. Maybe we're shifting strategy. Maybe we're going to use a different model. I might do the first set of strings on an area model if I'm doing multiplication. I might do the next set of strings in a ratio table. And I want kids to get used to both of those.  When we switch up from the 8 string to the next string, kind of think about only switching one thing. Don't up the numbers, change the model, and change the strategy at the same time. Keep two of those constant. Stay with the same model, maybe up the numbers, stay with the same strategy. Maybe if you're going to change strategies, you might back up the numbers a little bit, stick with the model for a minute before you switch the model before you go up the numbers. So those are three things to consider. Kind of—only change up one of them at a time or kids are going to be like, “Wait, what?” Kids will get higher dosed with the pattern you want them to see better if you only switch one thing at a time. Mike: Part of what you had me thinking was it's helpful, whether you're constructing your own string or whether you're looking at a string that's in a textbook or a set of materials, it's still helpful to think about, “What are the variables at play here?” I really appreciated the notion that they're not all created equal. There are times where you want to pause and linger a little bit that you don't need to spend that exact same amount of time on every clunker and every helper. There's a critical problem that you really want to invest some time in at one point in the string. And I appreciated the way you described, you're playing with the size of the number or the complexity of the number, the shift in the model, and then being able to look at those kinds of things and say, “What all is changing?” Because like you said, we're trying to kind of walk this line of creating a space of discovery where we haven't suddenly turned the volume up to 11 and made it really go from like, “Oh, we discovered this thing, now we're at full complexity,” and yet we don't want to have it turned down to, “It's not even discovery because it's so obvious that I knew it immediately. There's not really anything even to talk about.” Pam: Nice. Yeah, and I would say we want to be right on the edge of kids' own proximal development, right on the edge. Right on the edge where they have to grapple with what's happening. And I love the word “grapple.” I've been in martial arts for quite a while, and grappling makes you stronger. I think sometimes people hear the word “struggle” and they're like, “Why would you ever want kids to struggle?” I don't know that I've met anybody that ever hears the word “grapple” as a negative thing. When you “grapple,” you get stronger. You learn. So I want kids right on that edge where they are grappling and succeeding. They're getting stronger. They're not just like, “Let me just have you guess what's in my head.” You're off in the field and, “Sure hope you figure out math, guys, today.” It's not that kind of discovery that people think it is. It really is: “Let me put you in a place where you can use what you know to notice maybe a new pattern and use it maybe in a new way. And poof! Now you own those relationships, and let's build on that.” And it continues to go from there.  When you just said—the equal weight thing, let me just, if I can—there's another, so I mentioned that there's at least five structures of problem strings. Let me just mention one other one that we like, to give you an example of how the weight could change in a string. So if I have an equivalent structure, an equivalent structure looks like: I give a problem, and an example of that might be 15 times 18. Now I'm not going to give a helper; I'm just going to give 15 times 18. If I'm going to do this string, we would have developed a few strategies before now. Kids would have some partial products going on. I would probably hope they would have an “over,” I would've done partial products over and probably, what I call “5 is half a 10.”  So for 15 times 18, they could use any one of those. They could break those up. They could think about twenty 15s to get rid of the extra two to have 18, 15. So in that case, I'm going to go find a partial product, an “over” and a “5 is half a 10,” and I'm going to model those. And I'm going to go, “Alright, everybody clear? Everybody clear on this answer?” Then the next problem I give—so notice that we just spent some time on that, unlike those helper clunker strings where the first problem was like a gimme, nobody needed to spend time on that. That was going to help us with the next one. In this case, this one's a bit of a clunker. We're starting with one that kids are having to dive in, chew on. Then I give the next problem: 30 times 9. So I had 15 times 18 now 30 times 9. Now kids get a chance to go, “Oh, that's not too bad. That's just 3 times 9 times 10. So that's 270. Wait, that was the answer to the first problem. That was probably just coincidence. Or was it?” And now especially if I have represented that 15 times 18, one of those strategies with an area model with an open array, now when I draw the 30 by 9, I will purposely say, “OK, we have the 15 by 18 up here. That's what that looked like. Mm, I'll just use that to kind of make sure the 30 by 9 looks like it should. How could I use the 15 by 18? Oh, I could double the 15? OK, well here's the 15. I'm going to double that. Alright, there's the 30. Well, how about the 9? Oh, I could half? You think I should half? OK. Well I guess half of 18. That's 9.”  So I've just helped them. I've brought out, because I'm inviting them to help me draw it on the board. They're thinking about, “Oh, I just half that side, double that side. Did we lose any area? Oh, maybe that's why the products are the same. The areas of those two rectangles are the same. Ha!” And then I give the next problem. Now I give another kind of clunker problem and then I give its equivalent. And again, we just sort of notice: “Did it happen again?” And then I might give another one and then I might end the string with something like 3.5 times—I'm thinking off the cuff here, 16. So 3.5 times 16. Kids might say, “Well, I could double 3.5 to get 7 and I could half the 16 to get 8, and now I'm landing on 7 times 8.” And that's another way to think about 3.5 times 16. Anyway, so, equivalent structure is also a brilliant structure that we use primarily when we're trying to teach kids what I call the most sophisticated of all of the strategies. So like in addition, give and take, I think, is the most sophisticated addition. In subtraction, constant difference. In multiplication, there's a few of them. There's doubling and having, I call it flexible factoring to develop those strategies. We often use the equivalent structure, like what's happening here? So there's just a little bit more about structure. Mike: There's a bit of a persona that I've noticed that you take on when you're facilitating a string. I'm wondering if you can talk about that or if you could maybe explain a little bit because I've heard it a couple different times, and it makes me want to lean in as a person who's listening to you. And I suspect that's part of its intent when it comes to facilitating a string. Can you talk about this? Pam: So I wonder if what you're referring to, sometimes people will say, “You're just pretending you don't know what we're talking about.” And I will say, “No, no, I'm actually intensely interested in what you're thinking. I know the answer, but I'm intensely interested in what you're thinking.” So I'm trying to say things like, “I wonder.” “I wonder if there's something up here you could use to help. I don't know. Maybe not. Mm. What kind of clunker could—or helper could you write for this clunker?”  So I don't know if that's what you're referring to, but I'm trying to exude curiosity and belief that what you are thinking about is worth hearing about. And I'm intensely interested in how you're thinking about the problem and there's something worth talking about here. Is that kind of what you're referring to? Mike: Absolutely.  OK. We're at the point in the podcast that always happens, which is: I would love to continue talking with you, and I suspect there are people who are listening who would love for us to keep talking. We're at the end of our time. What resources would you recommend people think about if they really want to take a deeper dive into understanding strings, how they're constructed, what it looks like to facilitate them. Perhaps they're a coach and they're thinking about, “How might I apply this set of ideas to educators who are working with kindergartners and first graders, and yet I also coach teachers who are working in middle school and high school.” What kind of resources or guidance would you offer to folks? Pam: So the easiest way to dive in immediately would be my brand-new book from Corwin. It's called Developing Mathematical Reasoning: Avoiding the Trap of Algorithms. There's a section in there all about strings. We also do a walk-through where you get to feel a problem string in a K–2 class and a 3–5 [class]. And well, what we really did was counting strategies, additive reasoning, multiplicative reasoning, proportional reasoning, and functional reasoning. So there's a chapter in there where you go through a functional reasoning problem string. So you get to feel: What is it like to have a string with real kids? What's on the board? What are kids saying? And then we link to videos of those. So from the book, you can go and see those, live, with real kids, expert teachers, like facilitating good strings. If anybody's middle school, middle school coaches: I've got building powerful numeracy and lessons and activities for building powerful numeracy. Half of the books are all problem strings, so lots of good resources.  If you'd like to see them live, you could go to mathisfigureoutable.com/ps, and we have videos there that you can watch of problem strings happening.  If I could mention just one more, when we did the K–12, Developing Mathematical Reasoning, Avoiding the Trap of Algorithms, that we will now have grade band companion books coming out in the fall of '25. The K–2 book will come out in the spring of '26. The [grades] 3–5 book will come out in the fall of '26. The 6–8 book will come out and then six months after that, the 9–12 companion book will come out. And those are what to do to build reasoning, lots of problem strings and other tasks, rich tasks and other instructional routines to really dive in and help your students reason like math-y people reason because we are all math-y people. Mike: I think that's a great place to stop. Pam, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Pam: Mike, it was a pleasure to be on. Thanks so much. Mike: This podcast is brought to you by The Math Learning Center and the Maier Math Foundation, dedicated to inspiring and enabling all individuals to discover and develop their mathematical confidence and ability. © 2025 The Math Learning Center | www.mathlearningcenter.org

Tiff and Dana discuss what they've seen across hundreds of practices as the best time to hold those weekly meetings. They also touch on the benefits of third-party insight, finding pockets to create consistency, the right cadence for your team, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. I snag Dana once again, and I always say that I snag Dana. I say that because I pre-schedule these, you guys. Pretty far out in the calendar, I always have the podcasting scheduled. And then I do a really great job of being like, ⁓ actually, I know that it's on this specific date, but maybe we could squeeze it in here. I am always looking for ways to try to maximize a schedule, but sometimes it.   requires me moving things around. So I do really truly snack, Dana, where I can and push it into our schedules, typically somewhere else other than where it had originally started. So Dana, thank you for always knowing your schedule, always considering it, and always, think, one, we typically are able to just pop it in there, which just reinforces my bad habit, but... ⁓   I do know without a shadow of a doubt that if it doesn't work, you'll tell me too. So thank you for being the kind of person that can look at something and can confidently say like, oh, great idea, Tiff, but I can't do it that day. What about this day? I appreciate that about you, about your leadership style. And it makes me super confident in you training leaders and practices out there in the world. So Dana, welcome to the show today. Thank you for all that you are. How are you? It's the beginning of our week. How's your Monday so far? And again, thank you for.   just sliding this in here today.   Dana (01:24) Yeah, of course. Thank you. And you know, like, as a fellow efficiency hacker, I love when you look for ways to just pop it in spaces, especially with how busy our schedules are. I definitely always appreciate the snag and the time with you. And yeah, my Monday starting off pretty good, you know, meetings, catch up, client projects, all the things Monday can be a fun and yet sometimes wild day.   The Dental A Team (01:49) It's so true. It's so true. My boyfriend's always like, gosh, it's Monday and like, why are you always so exhausted? Isn't this your meeting day? And I'm like, yeah, well, you know, we got lots of meetings and today I decided to snag everyone possible for podcasting. So I've got meeting on meeting and then podcasting and you're totally right, Dana. And I think it's actually really beautiful. Something we did a few years ago. I don't know, Dana, if you remember when we started, probably, probably pretty close to when you onboarded as a consultant, we started shifting.   into Monday meeting day and Friday kind of meeting slash catch up kind of admin work day because we were getting really wild with our schedule. And it's just something I think that has changed and shifted the culture of the company pretty drastically. And it gives us that space to really dial in and work on the company and not just always working on client stuff or our own personal stuff that gives us space. So kudos to the Dental A Team there and Dana that was really   really kind of ties into today's content, honestly, of really structuring a schedule and being able to see where we can best create, you know, which I know like people, gosh, what am I trying to say here? Practices are like, where am I supposed to do a meeting? Where, and then where is it most beneficial? And I know I get asked a lot and Dana, you might too, like, can I do my meeting on a Friday? I'm like, totally, you sure can. But I think from our experience, what we've seen is Mondays tend to be the best because it sets the week up.   in advance. You can set it up on Friday for sure too, but I think it really just starting the day with our Monday meeting that first, you know, level 10 style meeting first thing in the morning on Mondays really gets the whole team energized and aligned on what our week is going to look like. And for me, working from home, like it really like motivates me to get moving. And Dana, do you, do you kind of feel that same way? And do you see that with practices?   Dana (03:41) Yeah, I do. agree with you. think if Friday is the only time that the entire team can get together for a meeting short have it on Friday, but I do feel like end of the week meetings, whether your last day is Thursday or your last day is Friday. It doesn't allow us to really jump off and get started right away. There's this whole weekend kind of a lag. And sometimes I feel like we come in Monday and it's like, we maybe lost some of the priorities that we talked about, or they get filtered through our weekend a little bit. So if it is the only time that you can, absolutely. And then I think Monday just a little like, guys, don't   forget, right? Bullet points of what we talked about, what we're working on this weekend, again, just to start the week fresh. But I think if you can do them on Mondays, it is a great way to really get everybody focused for the week to be super intentional with the week and with your time and just a jumpstart for everybody.   The Dental A Team (04:27) I totally agree. I think that's super important. I love how you brought that back together on Monday morning as a refocus moment. So maybe it's not the whole hour to hour and a half, however long meeting, but it's a quick like 15, 20 minutes. Let's just jumpstart this week to get us off on the same foot and make sure we remember the things we committed to. So I love that. I think that's brilliant. And again, it ties into what we're going to talk about today. I   Love stats. love pulling the consulting team's stats. love seeing what you ladies are doing for your clients over there and really just seeing the successes of the clients. And I love sharing those successes and those tools. Something that my team loves to do is just really share all the tools we possibly can. And when you're ready to work with us, we do it side by side with you. But until then, you've got these resources that you can kind of self-implement to the best of your possibilities. And we are always here to help as much as we can.   So Dana, I know we've chatted about this client ⁓ ourselves and we're not going to get into the specifics of the client, but the specifics of the results itself. And kudos to your diligence, ⁓ to your accountability and really staying on top of what a client needs. And I think what we've seen a lot is that mostly a client needs someone doing it side by side with them as in,   sharing the emotional load and being willing to have the hard conversations when they need to be had and answer the text when they need to be answered and get on those calls every single month for an hour and a half and really bust through the struggles that the numbers are showing us and really implement the right tools and put the accountability lines into it. So when I say we do it with them, Dana, that's like a very hard line that we've learned to take.   And we do it with them by ⁓ actions of training and support. We're not doing it for you. not calling your patients. Dana's not calling on unpaid balances. But she is someone who has been able to support many clients, but specifically these results. She has been able to support practices in achieving this specific one is tripling their collections within two months of working with Dana.   That sounds magical. It sounds beautiful and it is. And the clients who do experience these kinds of results, which all of our clients experience some tremendous results. But something I do want to put a caveat on is that our clients experience results in varying degrees. And there are just so there's so many results to be had and so many results to be shared. And I think something that has to be taken into consideration is where you come into the game.   Where are you starting and where are you going? Right. So this practice had some room to grow coming into it and as do many practices. so generally speaking, Dana, I think my first question is tripling collections. Number one freaking fantastic way to go. You offered some incredible support, some incredible training and awesome, awesome tools that they will be able to use for the rest of their careers.   What did you, when you see practices come in like this and you're like, holy, holy cow, there's room here to triple your production or your collections. Like, let's do this. What kind of demographics are they coming in with? What are you seeing their stats as when they onboard?   Dana (07:52) Yeah.   Yeah,   yeah, and I will say a client like this is really exciting to onboard because when you can kind of instantly see where you can help, right, you can instantly bring some relief, you can instantly reduce stress because, you know, collections is an area that can cause a ton of just.   emotions, stress, because that's money in the bank, right? And, and that is the money that we use to pay our team and pay for expenses and keep the doors open. And so to be able to have a client come in, I can just like instantly pinpoint where I can be super helpful and massively impact just their life and their practice. It is really, really exciting. Now to get results like triple the collections, this office came in with collections sitting at around 40 % as well   as needing some growth in their production, right? So ideally what they were needing to collect, there was a fairly decent gap ⁓ there that allowed for these results, but it definitely was hugely impacted in their just willingness to jump in and get to work too.   The Dental A Team (09:04) Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think that that space is super fun when clients come in and I'm like, heck yeah, here's a target. And most clients, whether it's the collections or overhead or production, most clients will come in with something that we can just narrow in on right away within the first 30 days and get momentum and get movement. And I think once we get that movement going, whether it's small or drastic, that's when the momentum catches with the team.   and the doctors and the leaders, and they're like, ⁓ this isn't as hard as we thought it was. We can do this one strategic piece at a time. And so when you're looking at a whole practice, it can be super overwhelming. And when you're working in the practice, hence the reason we do Monday meeting days, right? It's really hard to work on and in something at the same time. And when you're doing that, everything that quote unquote needs to be fixed or needs to be worked on or needs to progress,   is a hot fire and is a stress. And you're like, how do I do it all? How do I do everything? So what we end up doing, I think most often in practices, Dana, I know that I did this as a leader, is we try to fix a piece of multiple things. And so we get nowhere really fast. And we get like a 3 % movement on 10 different things instead of really being able to narrow down the focus into that one thing.   that can be done now that will progress you, that can spiral and domino effect into the next thing. And Dana, I think that's something that you were able to do with these, the results that you got here with this client, but specifically with any client, that third party kind of bird's eye view perspective of massive issues, it's easier for us to come in and say, well, why don't we work on this is the biggest thing, or this is the thing we can fix right now.   those other pieces might have things tied to them that we can't resolve. So we're gonna start here and finding that starting point seems to be the magic sauce of like one thing, one focus. And Dana, you do really well keeping them in line with that and being like, ⁓ yeah, those are great questions. What about this? Yep, those were great options. What about this? So bringing them back in alignment to that. And for these results to triple their collections,   What did you see right off the bat that you were like, is our focus. This is where we're gonna keep coming back. And how did you continue to pull them back into focus for that? Because I know they squirreled, everyone does.   Dana (11:38) Mm-hmm. Yeah. They do.   And everybody squirrels, and I think, too, like...   Doctors come in with I need to change this thing because it's the thing I can control, right? So a lot of times when it is a collections issues, doctors will come in and say, just need to produce more, right? I got to get in there and I got to produce more. And while that will help collections, right, it isn't going to fix whatever the root causes that's really thrown it off. And I will say for this practice, like there was quite a bit of opportunity in there, meaning that both sides of collections were just   not kept super consistent, not really great systems in place. You know, a lot of the parts and pieces in the background were a little bit off kilter or broken, if you will. And so instantly what I could see was, because I will say,   front office turnover, there's only one person that works in the front and it turned over quite frequently during the period of time where they saw a huge drop. knowing that, I could see that insurance AR really hadn't been kept super consistent. And honestly and truly the first thing that I did was recommend that he outsource it to somebody that could keep it steady. First and foremost, I can see we don't have hands on deck. Our clinical team doesn't know insurance well enough to pivot and jump in in those areas. And we really need somebody that is strong.   The Dental A Team (12:46) sense.   Dana (12:56) and can get in there and can get you results very quickly because honestly and truly at that point there was not a front office person on the scene. So it was I've got a great resource for you to outsource your insurance billing and get that started right away and honestly and truly that made a huge jump just having somebody consistent work on it.   The Dental A Team (13:18) Yeah, and I think that's a huge point. So whether you have somebody in the office or you have to outsource, ⁓ the thing that you said there was consistently working on it. So if you do have somebody, which a lot of practices do, you've got somebody in the practice, but I think that like squirreling on trying to figure out or decide what's the most important thing to work on right now, I...   think my assumption is, what I've seen is that those insurance follow-ups, those claims follow-ups, even claims processing, like sending the claims and prepping the claims, those get pushed to the wayside because they can be theoretically done at any time, right? It doesn't require me answering the phone and talking to a patient right now. It doesn't require me checking in a patient right now or answering the 15 questions that the doctor's coming with me.   to me with today because he doesn't have a patient, right? It doesn't require my immediate attention. So I can kind of push it to the back of my pile and handle other quote unquote hot fires. So that consistency gets lost. And back to our Monday meetings, would you have, if they had someone in this practice, and I know you've done this with other practices too, or I assume you have, would you have them structure so that they had specific times for that consistency?   Dana (14:31) Okay.   The Dental A Team (14:32) how do we help a billing team? Because I've had it too, where they've got somebody there and they're just like, Tiff, I don't know what you want me to do, I've got all these other things. And it's like, well, we need a structure built in. So what does that look like,   Dana (14:44) Yeah, and we did build a structure with the patient side with them. And so I think that there's a structure for both sides and you have to figure out about how much we can set aside every week. Right. And I like just a very simple cadence. Week one and three is patient AR. Week two and four is insurance AR. Week one is sending statements. Week three is your follow up calls and texts.   for your patient AR, for your insurance AR, usually I say week two, I'm working oldest forward, right? So I'll do my 90 day, my 60 day week two, week four, then I'm hitting my like 30 to 60 and whatever I can work in the current. ⁓   And so I think when you break it up into chunks like that, and whether it is, hey, you spend an hour every day each week, or you pick Tuesdays as your AR day, and you lock yourself in whatever space you can that you're uninterrupted, or you just let the team know, hey, come to me as little as possible for the next four hours, it's my AR time, and you mark it on your schedule. But I think developing, because AR is the one thing that the second you let off the gas, right, it will spiral on you.   It   will continue to grow. It will take off the second that you look away from it. And so, so often that's really just what it is, is you're doing the things. You're doing follow-up calls. You are...   Reaching out to patients you're sending statements, but we're doing it sporadically versus consistently We're doing it when we have pockets of time versus making the time to keep it consistent And when we're looking for pockets of time in a busy dental practice as you know Tiff like things always will come up   There's always a way to fill your time and there's always things that feel really pressing. And so AR is one of those things because it's just follow up that gets pushed to the side or is like, I'll tackle that next week or Hey, I'll tackle that at the end of the month. And by the time we get to the end of the month, it's grown to where we actually can't manage it now because there's so much in there.   The Dental A Team (16:44) Yeah, well you made me think of the reference that people can kind of look at this as, especially for our doctors or our managers who maybe don't do this part of the job. It makes me think of gym workouts. And when you're going even three times a week, so you've got three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, every week you're gonna go to the gym and you go to the gym and two, three, four weeks go by and you're starting to increase the weight.   on the exercises that you're doing. So maybe your bicep curls by week four, you're able to do a five pound heavier dumbbell. You start at 10, now week four you're at 15. And then life happens and you're like, shoot, we've got Christmas, we've got New Year's, we've got family in town, and we don't prioritize getting to the gym or getting those workouts in. So we lose the reps, right?   your reps aren't just like the single exercise reps. Your reps are the repetitions of actually going to the gym. So what happens then, you lose the reps of the gym and you were going three days a week and you were just killing it for like four months and you're like, I see these great results and this is working. And then you're like, shoot, it's holidays. And you just don't make the time for it. And you say, I'll get there when I can. And it starts as two days.   Fridays are out, there's too much family stuff going on. I can't do a Friday, that's crazy. So Monday, Wednesday, and then all of a sudden it's like, shoot, by Monday, I'm really tired by the end of the day, so I'll go at least Wednesday, but Wednesday's hump day. So then by the end of January, you're like, now I need a resolution created to get myself back in the gym because I'm starting over. And so I think that's what happens with AR or re-care calls or unscheduled treatment calls. We do them and we do them and we do them and then we're like,   Gosh, Dana, I've got to do this thing or I'm exhausted of this. I can't make any more calls. So we stop and then we're starting at the beginning again, even for re-care calls. If you've called a patient four times to schedule and you're like, Tiff, they're just not coming. You don't know that until they tell you they're not coming. So then in two months, you're starting again at ground zero. That's your first call. It's not your fifth call. You haven't called them five times. Now you call them once and you're starting all over again. So Dana, I think when you talked about the consistency in AR, that's what it made me think of.   Brody does great, my kid does great, and he'll start seeing results and then he falls off and then he's like, my squats are, I can't do as much on my squats again. And I'm like, well, you know, your legs are the first to go, buddy. Like your biggest muscle, those are the first to go. And he's constantly restarting. And I see people do that all the time in the health industry, but I don't think we relate it necessarily to our tasks in our daily job.   And I think Dana, you keyed in on that. And so building that consistency for them, the consistency with the offsite billing company obviously helped this practice alone, but building that consistency on the patient AR and having those two, if it's in office, if you're using an offsite company, matter what, consistent follow-up on offsite company is a thing as well. So no matter what you built, you helped them see where they could build that structure into their schedule, build the systems that needed to be followed.   and stay consistent on it no matter what happened. And Dana, I would have to assume and surmise here that that's where the results really started to trickle in. Because had they done that really well in month one, they may have only had 10 % increase. But because they stuck with it, they were able to triple their results in two months by utilizing those structures. Dana, do you agree? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, you've   Dana (20:12) Yeah, absolutely. Yep.   The Dental A Team (20:18) killed it and you guys again like this comes from you have to start where you are and if you don't have you guys if you're calling us and you're like hey I have ten thousand dollars in my over 90 AR okay great when order to increase collections we're gonna have increased production like great AR I want that but when you call and you say hey Dana I have two hundred fifty thousand dollars in my AR that's an easy space to be like awesome we need to get this collections ramped up there's a lot to be collected here   So start where you are, know there's always consistency to be found. There's always something we're doing inconsistently and I always say anything you do consistently, even if you're consistently inconsistent, okay, if you are consistently inconsistent, you are going to produce a result. Anything you do consistently will produce a result. It's just looking to see is this producing the results I want or not. And if it's an or not, look at your real consistency.   Are you actually doing what you think you're doing? Or are you a little lopsided and topsy-turvy and maybe only making insurance calls once a month? Because that would suck.   Dana (21:23) Yeah, and it's one of   those spaces to like you said hard conversations, right? And I think that numbers make those conversations a little bit easier because I can say it may feel as if it is consistent, but there's something happening because the result   isn't there. And if we kept it consistent, we can certainly look at what you're doing and is that effective. But so often when we work with teams, it's the consistency piece that we're missing. Offices come in and like they want systems and they want help. And it turns out that a lot of them have systems, right? It's the consistency piece that they haven't quite figured out or, or how to even see that or build it in, like you said, creating that cadence. ⁓ And sometimes it's like you can   makes such massive movement with just one small tweak in consistency.   The Dental A Team (22:13) Yeah,   beautiful. I think that is wonderful. And Dana, if I were to force you to wrap this into some action items, with that said, what would it be?   Dana (22:23) Yeah, I would say just pull your AR, right? Know what your AR looks like. Know what your collections percentage is for every month. Remember, we're targeting less than one month's production for AR, 98 % for collections. But the biggest piece is if those numbers aren't where you want them to be.   Build your cadence. Make sure that those pieces are consistent. Talk to your billing coordinators. If you are the billing coordinator, look, where can I make it consistent in my schedule? Map it out, put it on the schedule, tell the team, ⁓ and get to work because it'll make massive change.   The Dental A Team (22:57) Awesome, I love it. Thank you, Dana. I think that was a beautiful wrap. ⁓ And guys, I just, I love our clients and you guys work so hard for the results that you get and the space to allow us to come in and support you on that is just really, really fun for us. So thank you to all of our clients. Massive thank you to all of our listeners, whether you're a client or not. You are here, you show up with us and hopefully you get some really fantastic.   actionable items and pieces that you can take away to your teams or individually implement within your own position in your company. So you guys, that's a wrap for today. I hope you enjoy. Drop us a five star review. Let us know what you think. And if you have any tips or tricks that you've implemented that have helped increase your collections, we'd love to hear about them. You can leave them in your review. People do read those. tell you that all the time. Or let us know Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. If you have any questions or you want to give Dana some massive kudos or   just pick our brains, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com works as well. So thank you guys and until next time, we'll see you later.

This week the gang spices things up and gets ready for the club with Cheez-It in the snews! Support this podcast at https://www.patreon.com/LetsTalkAboutSnacks     -- Snack News: Fans Are Eager To Couple Up With Poppi's New Limited-Edition Tropical Island Flavor: https://www.delish.com/food-news/a68826263/poppi-new-flavor-amaya-island-colada-limited-edition/ Nutella and Kinder Bueno Get ‘Delightful' New Line You Won't Find in the Snack Aisle: https://parade.com/food/nutella-ice-cream-kinder-bueno-frozen-dessert-cones-new-release M&M's Announces First Freeze-Dried Candy Inspired by a TikTok Trend, Arriving Nov. 10: https://people.com/m-and-ms-debuts-freeze-dried-candies-11826535 CHEEZ-IT® OPENS STUDIO CHEEZ, THE ULTIMATE PARTY EXPERIENCE, SATISFYING LATE NIGHT CRAVINGS AND SPINNING CLUB HITS IN NYC: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cheez-it-opens-studio-cheez-the-ultimate-party-experience-satisfying-late-night-cravings-and-spinning-club-hits-in-nyc-302579185.html  Classic coffee brand changes name after 133 years. See why.: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2025/10/01/maxwell-house-coffee-name-change-maxwell-apartment/86456209007/  Locate Lauren on Twitter (@rawrglicious) and Bluesky(@rawrglicious.bsky.social‬)! Find Conrad on Twitter (@ConradZimmerman) and peruse his other projects on this Linktree thing. Linda can be located on Instagram (@shoresofpluto)! Logo by Cosmignon! See more of her cool art at https://www.cosmignon.info/  Music by Michael "Skitch" Schiciano. Hear more of his work at https://skitch.bandcamp.com/ 

Recorded 10/7/25: Shannon and Maggie are planning for their trip to Florida. We talk about the spooky and Halloween books we are reading and the things going on in the world. Werewolves, Minotaur's, and Mates... Oh my! #OctoberIsForMonsterSmut #OctoberIsForMonsterPorn . Why does "reverse" mean a dominate woman? You just got donkeyed. It's Hocky Season! Everyone go to the Boy Aquarium! Our favorite MM hockey book is becoming a TV show in Canada-eh!  Original music composed by The Jessi Brown Experience. Find Jessi at TheJessiBrownExperience.Bandcamp.com, and us @ShannonsParty, @ActualMaggieMay, @ThatMoreThing , and @ShannonsPartyReads on Instagram. Now streaming on Podbean, Pocket Cast, Spotify, and Apple Podcast

The MM crew discusses the Steelers loss to the Bengals and how A-Rod gives the team hope as they begin a brutal 7-game stretch against Green Bay. New head coaching candiates are debated for the PSU job and the Pens hot start to the season is talked about on this edition of MM. 

C'est la punchline de Quentin! Qui a fait un mini buzz sur Instagram et Linkedin. Oui, beaucoup de consoeurs et de confères ont apprécié cet encouragement à se lâcher la grappe! Moi aussi d'ailleurs, cette simple phrase m'a permis de dégommer un de mes blocages (depuis des années, je préfère ne pas me fixer d'objectifs… pas pratique quand on entreprend). Je te raconte tout ça dans cette MM. Et je compte sur toi pour me dire: tu arrives à te fixer des objectifs clairs, qui te portent? “Les objectifs ne sont pas fait pour être atteints”, ça te parle aussi? (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

Quan hệ hữu nghị truyền thống giữa Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên được “tạo xung lực mới” thông qua chuyến công du Bình Nhưỡng của tổng bí thư Tô Lâm từ ngày 09-11/10/2025 nhưng tạm dừng ở cấp độ chính trị, trao đổi văn hóa và du lịch. Bình Nhưỡng đã phát triển mạnh chương trình tên lửa, kể cả hạt nhân và cho dù có muốn, Hà Nội cũng chỉ dừng ở “ý định thư hợp tác quốc phòng khi điều kiện cho phép”. Bắc Triên Tiên bị Liên Hiệp Quốc trừng phạt vì phát triển chương trình hạt nhân. Còn “Việt Nam không muốn vi phạm các lệnh trừng phạt quốc tế đối với Bắc Triều Tiên” theo nhận định của nhà nghiên cứu Vũ Khang, Khoa Khoa học Chính trị, Đại học Boston (Mỹ), vì Hà Nội đặt trọng tâm vào phát triển kinh tế trong những thập niên gần đây và không ngừng mở rộng mạng lưới đối tác với các nước phương Tây. Cùng với “ngoại giao cây tre”, Việt Nam thể hiện là “bạn” với tất cả các nước, là một quốc gia trung lập, không chọn phe. Và trong chính sách đối ngoại đa phương, Hà Nội coi Bình Nhưỡng là một đối tác quan trọng. Tuy nhiên, “việc này không đồng nghĩa là Việt Nam ủng hộ chương trình hạt nhân hay chính sách chống phương Tây của Bắc Triều Tiên”. Chuyến thăm Bình Nhưỡng của ông Tô Lâm diễn ra chỉ hai tháng sau chuyến công du Seoul còn cho thấy Hà Nội tiếp tục chính sách cân bằng quan hệ và đặt trọng tâm vào việc duy trì ổn định khu vực để phát triển kinh tế và hợp tác với cả hai miền Triều Tiên. Chuyến công du đầu tiên kể từ 18 năm qua mang lại những triển vọng như thế nào cho quan hệ Việt Nam - Bắc Triều Tiên ? Tiến sĩ Vũ Khang, học giả thỉnh giảng, tại Khoa Khoa học Chính trị, Đại học Boston, Mỹ, trả lời một số câu hỏi của RFI Tiếng Việt. RFI : Mối quan hệ giữa Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên trở thành đề tài được chú sau khi nhà lãnh đạo Kim Jong Un mời tổng bí thư đảng Cộng Sản Việt Nam Tô Lâm đến dự 80 thành lập đảng Lao Động Triều Triên và lễ duyệt binh ở Bình Nhưỡng. Năm 2025 cũng đánh dấu 75 năm hai nước thiết lập quan hệ ngoại giao. Tuy nhiên, mối quan hệ này không phải lúc nào cũng suôn sẻ ! Vũ Xuân Khang : Quan hệ Việt Nam-Bắc Triều Tiên thực ra từ sau chiến tranh Lạnh không có nhiều phát triển so với quan hệ Việt Nam-Hàn Quốc. Nói như vậy không có nghĩa là quan hệ Việt-Triều không quan trọng. Trong tình hình chính sách đối ngoại hiện nay của Việt Nam, Bắc Triều Tiên là một trong những đối tác truyền thống của Hà Nội, khi hai nước thiết lập quan hệ ngoại giao kể từ rất sớm, vào tháng 01/1950. Và Bắc Triều Tiên là nước thứ 3 đã thiết lập quan hệ ngoại giao với Việt Nam, chỉ sau Trung Quốc và Liên Xô. Trong chiến tranh chống Mỹ, Bắc Triều Tiên đã cam kết sẽ bảo vệ miền Bắc khỏi các cuộc tấn công của Mỹ và chính họ đã gửi phi công tham chiến, cũng như một lượng lớn khí tài và viện trợ kinh tế cho miền Bắc. Mặc dù quan hệ hai bên đã bị sứt mẻ trong chiến tranh Đông Dương lần 3 khi Bắc Triều Tiên ủng hộ Trung Quốc và Khmer Đỏ chống lại Việt Nam, hai bên đã không có bất kỳ cuộc trao đổi cấp cao nào. Và đó gần như là giai đoạn mà hai bên không muốn nhắc tới. Đọc thêmViệt Nam cố giữ trung lập giữa Hàn Quốc và Bắc Triều Tiên Kể từ năm 1988-1989 đến nay, sau khi Việt Nam rút quân khỏi Cam Bốt, thì hai nước mới bắt đầu có những trao đổi cấp cao trở lại. Tuy nhiên, việc Việt Nam bình thường hóa quan hệ ngoại giao với Hàn Quốc vào năm 1992 đã khiến cho quan hệ Việt Nam-Bắc Triều Tiên tạm thời trở nên đóng băng. Kể từ đầu những năm 2000 trở lại đây, Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên mới bắt đầu nối lại những đàm phán cấp cao do chính Bình Nhưỡng bày tỏ mong muốn là được thử nghiệm các mô hình mở cửa kinh tế như Việt Nam và Trung Quốc đã làm. Có thể thấy là quan hệ giữa Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên kể từ sau Chiến tranh Lạnh không có nhiều phát triển, nhất là quan hệ thương mại gần như nhỏ giọt, chỉ khoảng 20 triệu đô la/năm. Và về quan hệ quân sự, càng không có một chi tiết nào được công bố trên truyền thông. Những năm gần đây, Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên mong muốn tiếp tục nối lại quan hệ ngoại giao sau khi đại dịch Covid-19 làm ảnh hưởng tới trao đổi cấp cao giữa hai nước mà do chủ tịch Bắc Triều Tiên Kim Jong Un đã cố gắng nối lại trong chuyến thăm Hà Nội năm 2019. RFI : Tổng bí thư Tô Lâm là nhà lãnh đạo đảng thứ 3 đến thăm Bắc Triều Tiên trong 75 năm qua, lần gần đây nhất là chuyến thăm của tổng bí thư Nông Đức Mạnh năm 2007. Vậy chuyến công du này có ý nghĩa như thế nào ? Vũ Xuân Khang : Cần phải nói rõ là trong những năm gần đây, vì những lý do về kinh tế, về đại dịch nên Bắc Triều Tiên đã đóng cửa rất nhiều đại sứ quán và lãnh sự quán ở các nước đối tác truyền thống khác, như Uganda, Angola, Nepal, Senegal, Bangladesh, Hồng Kông, và Tây Ban Nha… nhưng họ vẫn duy trì hiện diện ở Việt Nam. Điều này cho thấy Bắc Triều Tiên vẫn nhìn nhận Việt Nam như là một đối tác rất quan trọng ở Đông Nam Á. Và trong những năm gần đây, cho dù hai nước không gặp nhau trực tiếp do đại dịch Covid-19, nhưng vẫn có những thư mừng hoặc những lời chúc mừng trong giai đoạn hai nước tổ chức Đại hội Đảng. Đặc biệt kể từ năm 2024, hai nước bắt đầu thực sự nối lại các cuộc gặp mặt cấp cao như chuyến thăm Việt Nam của ông Kim Song Nam, trưởng ban quốc tế trung ương của Đảng Lao động Triều Tiên, vào tháng 03/2024. Việt Nam cũng đã gửi thứ trưởng bộ Quốc Phòng và bộ Ngoại Giao đến thăm Bắc Triều Tiên vào tháng 9 và tháng 10/2024. Việc Bắc Triều Tiên hiện giờ mới mời được tổng bí thư Tô Lâm qua cũng là do đại dịch Covid-19 cũng như là hai bên vẫn chưa tìm được dịp đủ lớn, đủ trang trọng để mời tổng bí thư của Việt Nam qua. Dịp 80 năm thành lập đảng Lao Động Triều Tiên là một dịp rất hợp lý để Bắc Triều Tiên có thể nối lại các đàm phán cấp cao với Việt Nam ở cấp tổng bí thư. Đọc thêmViệt Nam giúp được gì Bắc Triều Tiên để gỡ thế cô lập ? RFI : Bắc Triều Tiên được cho là nhà cung cấp vũ khí, đạn dược cho Nga để duy trì cuộc chiến ở Ukraina. Bắc Triều Tiên cũng nổi tiếng về sản xuất tên lửa đạn đạo, hạt nhân, trong đó có một tên lửa đạn đạo tầm xa mới đã được giới thiệu trong lễ duyệt binh. Liệu mảng quân sự sẽ được đề cập trong quá trình thắt chặt quan hệ hữu nghị với Bình Nhưỡng không ? Hai bên dự kiến phát triển quá trình hợp tác này như thế nào ? Vũ Xuân Khang : Trong chuyến thăm lần này của tổng bí thư Tô Lâm, Việt Nam và Bắc Triều Tiên đã ký kết Ý định thư giữa hai bộ Quốc Phòng về hợp tác trong lĩnh vực quốc phòng. Cần nói rõ đây chỉ là ý định thư, nghĩa là hai nước bày tỏ quan điểm và các nội dung hợp tác trong tương lai khi các điều kiện cho phép. Và ở đây, lại cần nhấn mạnh vào yếu tố "khi các điều kiện cho phép" bởi vì Việt Nam hiểu rằng Bắc Triều Tiên vẫn đang chịu cấm vận rất lớn từ phương Tây. Đặc biệt là chương trình vũ khí hạt nhân và tên lửa tầm xa, bất kỳ hoạt động hợp tác nào của Việt Nam với Bắc Triều Tiên trong lĩnh vực tên lửa tầm xa có thể vi phạm các lệnh trừng phạt của Liên Hiệp Quốc. Việc này có thể sẽ ảnh hưởng tới quan hệ của Việt Nam với các nước phương Tây khi mà các nước phương Tây cũng như Hàn Quốc luôn luôn đặt vấn đề rằng Việt Nam phải cố gắng duy trì và bảo đảm các lệnh trừng phạt của Liên Hiệp Quốc đối với Bắc Triều Tiên trong các cuộc gặp cấp cao. Nhưng phải nói rằng thực ra, Việt Nam lại rất hợp với vũ khí của Bắc Triều Tiên. Trong thời gian gần đây, Việt Nam mới thành lập Bộ Tư lệnh Pháo binh Tên lửa và Hà Nội mong muốn nâng cấp tầm bắn của các tên lửa Scud-B do Liên Xô sản xuất và Liên Xô đã trao cho Việt Nam rất nhiều tên lửa Scud vào giai đoạn 1980. Còn Việt Nam, kể từ sau Chiến tranh Lạnh, lại không có điều kiện để thực sự tìm được một nguồn cung dồi dào hoặc một lời khuyên để phát triển loại vũ khí này. Bắc Triều Tiên lại có một nền tảng quốc phòng rất mạnh, kể cả Liên Xô sụp đổ, họ cũng đã tự cải tiến tên lửa Scud, như chúng ta thấy là họ đã có một hệ thống tên lửa tầm xa rất phát triển, như mới đây nhất là trong lễ diễu binh có tên lửa Hỏa Tinh-20 có khả năng bắn đến Mỹ và sử dụng nhiên liệu rắn. Đọc thêmMô hình Việt Nam có thích hợp với Bắc Triều Tiên? Do đó, Việt Nam hoàn toàn có thể học hỏi kinh nghiệm từ chương trình vũ khí hoặc là về công nghiệp quốc phòng nói chung của Bắc Triều Tiên. Nhưng như tôi đã đề cập ở trên, Việt Nam vẫn phải chú ý rất kỹ đến lệnh trừng phạt của Liên Hiệp Quốc. Đây mới chỉ là một ý định thư chưa chưa phải là một thỏa thuận hợp tác quốc phòng rõ ràng giữa hai nước. RFI : Tổng bí thư Tô Lâm trước đó đã công du Seoul. Việt Nam được cho là mua pháo K9 Thunder của Hàn Quốc. Và bây giờ là chuyến công du Bình Nhưỡng. Những hoạt động này có ý nghĩa như thế nào ? Vũ Xuân Khang : Chuyến thăm đến Triều Tiên của tổng bí thư Tô Lâm gần như là ngay sau chuyến thăm Hàn Quốc hồi tháng 08, đây là một lời khẳng định rõ ràng về đường lối ngoại giao đa phương hóa, đa dạng hóa của Việt Nam trong tương lai cũng như hiện tại và Việt Nam sẵn sàng làm bạn với tất cả nước và mong làm cầu nối giữa các bên. Đặc biệt chuyến thăm Bắc Triều Tiên lần này còn có tiềm năng lớn với Việt Nam trong hoàn cảnh chủ tịch Bắc Triều Tiên Kim Jong Un và tổng thống Mỹ Donald Trump đều để ngỏ khả năng gặp mặt trong trường hợp hai bên đồng ý về một thỏa thuận hạt nhân. Đọc thêmVũ khí: Hàn Quốc giúp Việt Nam giảm phụ thuộc vào Nga Việt Nam với tư cách là đối tác tin cậy của cả hai nước và là chủ nhà của thượng đỉnh Mỹ-Triều năm 2019 sẽ mong muốn lại một lần nữa được thể hiện vai trò, cầu nối, trung gian hòa giải và đóng góp vào xây dựng hòa bình trên bán đảo Triều Tiên. Trong các tuyên bố với cả phía Bắc Triều Tiên và Hàn Quốc, Việt Nam đều nhấn mạnh rất rõ là mong muốn hai miền Triều Tiên tiếp tục đối thoại và hợp tác với nhau và Việt Nam cũng đề cập vai trò của mình trong việc ủng hộ bảo vệ an ninh khu vực. Đặc biệt, trong chuyến thăm Hàn Quốc của tổng bí thư Tô Lâm, Việt Nam cũng đề cập rất rõ là ủng hộ chính sách hòa giải liên Triều của tổng thống Hàn Quốc Lee Jae Myung. Điều này thể hiện Việt Nam mong muốn được tiếp tục làm cầu nối giữa hai miền. Việc Bắc Triều Tiên vẫn gửi lời mời tổng bí thư Tô Lâm sau khi Việt Nam ký kết mua pháo K9 Thunder của Hàn Quốc cho thấy Bình Nhưỡng coi trọng vai trò trung gian hòa giải, cũng như đường lối đối ngoại độc lập tự chủ của Việt Nam. RFI Tiếng Việt xin chân thành cảm ơn tiến sĩ Vũ Khang, học giả thỉnh giảng, tại Khoa Khoa học Chính trị, Đại học Boston, Hoa Kỳ.

Audiobook Số 55 - Đức Mẹ Mân Côi by TGP Hà Nội

In episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood, hosts Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb explore Jesus's parable of the wheat and tares (weeds) from Matthew 13. This thought-provoking discussion examines Christ's startling teaching that good and evil will always coexist within the visible church until the end of time. The brothers carefully unpack the theological implications of Jesus's command not to separate wheat from weeds prematurely, challenging our natural tendency to judge others while offering wisdom about God's sovereign plan for final judgment. This episode wrestles with difficult questions about church purity, assurance of salvation, and how believers should approach the reality of false professors within Christ's church—providing biblical guidance for faithfully enduring in a mixed communion. Key Takeaways The Coexistence of True and False Believers: Jesus teaches that the visible church will always contain a mixture of genuine believers and false professors until the final judgment. The Danger of Premature Judgment: Christ explicitly warns against attempting to completely purify the church before the harvest (end of age) because doing so would damage the wheat (true believers). Proper Biblical Interpretation: Unlike some parables, Jesus provides a detailed allegorical explanation of this parable—the sower is Christ, the field is the world, the good seed represents believers, and the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The Challenge of Discernment: One of the most difficult theological pills to swallow is that it's often impossible to perfectly distinguish between true and false believers. Final Judgment as God's Prerogative: The separation of wheat from weeds is reserved for the angels at the end of the age, not for current church leaders or members. The Reality of False Assurance: Some professing Christians may have false assurance of salvation while genuinely believing they are saved. The Importance of Theological Integrity: Public theologians and pastors have a moral responsibility to be transparent about their theological convictions and changes in their beliefs. Deeper Explanations The Difficult Reality of a Mixed Church Jesus's teaching in the parable of the wheat and weeds directly challenges our natural desire for a perfectly pure church. By instructing the servants not to pull up the weeds lest they damage the wheat, Christ is establishing an important ecclesiological principle that will hold true until His return. This means that no matter how rigorously we apply church discipline or how carefully we examine profession of faith, we will never achieve a perfectly pure communion this side of eternity. The visible church—which can be understood as those who profess faith and are baptized—will always include both true and false believers. This reality should cultivate humility in how we approach church membership and discipline. Jesus isn't suggesting that all attempts at church purity are wrong (as other Scripture passages clearly call for church discipline), but rather that perfect purification is impossible and attempts at achieving it will inevitably damage true believers. This teaching directly refutes movements throughout church history (like Donatism) that have sought absolute purity in the visible church. The Problem of Discernment and Assurance One of the most challenging aspects of this parable is Christ's implicit teaching that true and false professors can appear nearly identical, especially in their early development. Like tares growing alongside wheat, false believers can profess orthodox doctrine, participate in church life, and exhibit what appears to be spiritual fruit. This creates profound implications for how we understand assurance of salvation. As Tony notes, while "assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian," there's also the sobering reality of false assurance. Some may sincerely believe they are saved when they are not, raising difficult questions about self-examination and spiritual discernment. This doesn't mean believers should live in perpetual doubt, but rather that we should approach assurance with both confidence in God's promises and healthy self-examination. True assurance must be grounded in the finished work of Christ rather than merely in our experiences or behaviors, while false assurance often lacks this proper foundation. The brothers wisely note that final judgment belongs to God alone, who perfectly knows who belongs to Him. Memorable Quotes "The visible church is set before us as a mixed body. Maybe everybody else's churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion." - Jesse Schwamb "I think that's what I find shocking. It is like a massive statement of reality that is at equal points totally sensible. And other times we would think, 'well, surely not in the church Lord, like of all the places, like aren't we talking about a kind of purity of your people?' ...and what I think he's striking at, which I do find a little bit wild, is that Jesus is essentially saying, at least to my ear, anything we try to do, even the purest preaching of the gospel, is not gonna prevent this in every age of the church." - Jesse Schwamb "I'm affirming that assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian." - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I am Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Guess what? It looks like you and I are taking another trip back to the farm on this episode. Tony Arsenal: Yes. For a couple episodes. Jesse Schwamb: For a couple episodes. Yeah. [00:01:01] Exploring Jesus' Parables in Matthew 13 Jesse Schwamb: Because what, Jesus will not stop leading us there. We're looking at his teachings, specifically the parables, and we're gonna be looking in Matthew chapter 13, where it seems like, is it possible that Jesus, once again has something very shocking for us to hear? That is for all the ages. 'cause it seems like he might actually be saying, Tony, that good and evil will always be found together in the professing church until the end of the world. Like in other words, that the visible church is set before a mixed body. I mean. Maybe everybody else chose churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion. Could that possibly be what Jesus is saying to us? I don't know what we're gonna find out. Tony Arsenal: We are. We are gonna find out. Jesse Schwamb: It's gonna be definitive. And if now that makes sense. If you don't even know why we're looking at Jesus' teachings, you could do us a favor even before you go any further. And that is just head on over in your favor, interwebs browser to or reform brotherhood.com, and you can find out all of the other episodes, all 464 that are living out there. There's all kinds of good stuff, at least we think so, or at least entertaining stuff for you to listen to. And when you're done with all of that in a year or two, then we'll pick it up right back here where we're about to go with some affirmations or some denials. [00:02:39] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: So Tony, before we figure out what Jesus has for us in Matthew 13, in the parable of the weeds, or the tears, or the tears in the weed, what gets all of that? Are you affirming with, are you denying against, Tony Arsenal: I am denying. First of all, I'm denying whatever this thing is that's going on with my throat. Sorry for the rest of the episode, everyone. Um, I'm denying something that I, I think it is. How do I want to phrase this? Um, maybe I'll call it theological integrity, and maybe that's too strong of a word, but maybe not. So the listener who's been with us for a little while will remember that a while back. Um, you know, we've, we've talked about Matthew Barrett and he was a Baptist, uh, who's heavily involved in sort of the theology, proper controversies. He wrote Simply Trinity, which is just a fantastic book. He was a teacher or a professor at Midwestern, um, Baptist Theological Seminary. And he recently, um, uh, converted is not the right word. I hate calling it a conversion when you go from one faithful Bible tradition to another. But he recently, um, changed his perspective and joined the Anglican Church. And at the time I kind of, you know, I kind of talked about it as like, it's a little bit disappointing, like the reasons he cited. [00:03:57] Theological Integrity and Public Disclosure Tony Arsenal: Where I'm bringing this into a matter of sort of theological integrity. And it's not, it's not just Matthew Barrett. Um, there's other elements of things going on that I'll, I'll point to too is it's often the case when someone who is in some form of professional theological work or professional vocational ministry, that as they start to change perspectives, um, there comes to be like an inflection point where they should notify whoever it is that they are accountable to in that job or vocation, uh, uh, and then do the right thing and step down. Right? And so with Matthew Barrett, um. He continued to teach systematic theology at a Baptist Theological Seminary, which has a faith statement which he was obligated to affirm and hold in good faith. He continued to teach there for quite some time, if, you know, when he, when he published the timeline and he's the one that put all the timelines out there. So it's not like people had to go digging for this. Um, he continued to teach under contract and under that, that faith statement, um, for quite some time after his positions changed. I remember in college, um, sim very similar situation, one of my professors, um, and I went to a Baptist college. It was a General Baptist college. Um, one of my professors became Roman Catholic and for quite some time he continued to teach without telling anyone that he had converted to Roman Catholicism. Um. And I think that there's a, there's a, a level of integrity that public theologians need to have. Um, and it, it really makes it difficult when something like this happens to be able to say that this is not a moral failing or some sort of failure. Um, you know, James White has jumped on the bandwagon very quickly to say, of course we told you that this was the way it was gonna lead. That if you affirm the great tradition, you know, he was very quick to say like, this is the road to Rome. And I think in his mind, um, Canterbury is just sort of one, one stop on that trip. Um, it becomes very hard after the fact to not have this color and tarnish all of your work before. 'cause it starts to be questions like, well, when, when did you start to hold these views? Were you writing, were you, were you publicizing Baptist theology when you no longer believed it to be the truth? Were you teaching theology students that this is what the Bible teaches when you no longer thought that to be true? Um. Were you secretly attending Anglican services and even teaching and, and helping deliver the service when you were, you know, still outwardly affirming a Baptist faith statement. And the reason I, I'll point out one other thing, 'cause I don't want this to be entirely about Matthew Barrett, but there's a big, uh, hub glue going on in the PCA right now. Um, a guy named Michael Foster, who some of our audience will probably be familiar with, um, he and I have had our desktops in the past, but I think he and I have come to a little bit of a, of a uneasy truce on certain things. He, uh, went to work compiling a, a list and there's some problems with the data, like it's, it's not clean data, so take it for what it's worth. But he compiled a list of. Every publicly available church website in the PCA. So something like 1800 websites or something like that. Huge numbers. And he went and looked at all of the staff and leadership directories, and he cataloged all the churches that had some sort of office or some sort of position that appeared to have a, a woman leading in a way that the Bible restricts. And that more importantly, and starting to say it this way, but more importantly, that the PCA itself restricts. So we're not talking about him going to random church websites and making assessments of their polity. We're talking about a, a denomination that has stated standards for who can bear office and it's not women. Um. So he compiled this and people in the PCA are coming out of the woodwork to basically defend the practice of having shepherdess and deacons. There was one that he cataloged where, um, the website actually said, uh, that was the pastor's wife and the title was Pastor of Women. Um, and then as soon as it became public that this was the case, they very quickly went in and changed the title to Shepherd of Women or Shepherdess of Women or something like that. So it's, it's really the same phenomena, not commenting, you know, I think we've been clear where we stand on the ordination of female officers and things like that, but not that all that withstanding, um, when you are going to be a part of a body that has a stated perspective on something and then just decide not to follow it, the right thing to do the, the upstanding morally. Uh, in full of integrity move would be to simply go to another denomination where your views align more closely. PCA churches, it's not super easy, but it's not impossible to leave the PCA as an entire congregation and then go somewhere like the EPC, which is the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, which still on the spectrum of things is still relatively conservative, but is in general is in favor of, uh, female officers, elders, and diegans. So I, I think, you know, and you see this with podcasters, there was the big, there was a big fu and Les became a Presbyterian, and then when Tanner became a Presbyterian on the pub, I think it is, um, incumbent on people who do any form of public theology and that that would include me and Jesse when our views change. There comes a point where we need to disclose that, be honest about it, um, and not try to pretend that we continue to hold a view that we don't be just because it's convenient or because it might be super inconvenient to make a change. I don't even want to pretend to imagine the pressures, uh, that someone like Matthew Barrett would face. I mean, you're talking about losing your entire livelihood. I, I understand that from an intellectual perspective, how difficult that must be, but in some ways, like that kind of comes with the territory. Same thing with a pastor. You have a Baptist pastor or a Presbyterian pastor. It can go both ways, I think. I'm more familiar with Baptist becoming Presbyterians. I don't, I don't see as many going the other direction. But you have a, a Baptist pastor who comes to pay to Baptist convictions and then continues to minister in their church for, I've, I've seen cases where they continue to minister for years, um, because they don't, they don't have the ability to now just go get a job in a Presbyterian context because there's all sorts of, um, training and certification and ordination process that needs to happen. Um, so they just continue ministering where they are, even though they no longer believe the church's state of, you know, state of faith statement. So that's a lot to say. Like, let your yes be yes and your no be no, and when we really all boil it down. So I think that's enough of that. It, it just sort of got in my craw this week and I couldn't really stop thinking about it. 'cause it's been very frustrating. And now there are stories coming out of. Doctoral students that, um, that Barrett was teaching who have now also become Anglican. Um, so, you know, there starts to be questions of like, was he actively pros? I mean, this is like Jacob Arminius did this stuff and, and like the reform tradition would look down on it, where he was in secret in like sort of small group private settings. He was teaching convictions very different than the uni. I'm talking about Arminius now. Not necessarily Barrett. He was teaching convictions very different than the, the stated theology of the university he taught for, and then in public he was sort of towing the line. You have to ask the question and it is just a question. There's been no confirmation that I'm aware of, but you have to ask the question if that was what was going on with Barrett, was he teaching Baptist theology publicly and then meeting with, with PhD students privately and, and sort of convincing them of Anglican theology. I don't know. I'm not speculating on that, but I think it, the situation definitely right, brings that question to mind. It forces us to ask it. Um, and had he. Been transparent about his theological shifts sooner than that may not be a, a question we have to ask. Um, the situation may not be all that different, but we wouldn't have to ask the question. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's totally fair. I mean, disclosure is important in lots of places in life and we shouldn't think that theological dis disclosure, especially like you're saying among our teachers, among our pastors, it is a critical thing. It's helpful for people to know when perspectives have changed, especially when they're looking to their leaders who are exhibiting trust and care over their discipleship or their education to express that difference. If there's been a mark, change it. It's worth it. Disclose, I'm guessing you don't have to over disclose, but that we're talking about a critical, we're talking about like subversive anglicanism, allegedly. Yeah. Then. It would be more than helpful to know that that is now shaping not just perspective, but of course like major doctrine, major understanding. Yeah. And then of course by necessary conviction and extension, everything that's being promulgated or proclamation in the public sphere from that person is likely now been permeated by that. And we'd expect so. Right. If convictions change, and especially like you're talking about, we're just talking about moving from, especially among like Bible believing traditions, just raise the hand and say loved ones, uh, this is my firm conviction now. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I think if someone walks up to you and says, do you think that we should baptize babies? And you're like, yeah, I think so. Then you probably shouldn't be teaching at a Baptist seminary anymore. Like, seems like a reasonable standard. And that seems to be what happened, at least for some period of time. Um, you know, and, and it, that's not to say like, I think, I think there are instances where the church, a given church or um, or a university or seminary or, or whatever the situation might be, can be gracious and recognize like, yeah, people's perspectives change and maybe we can find a way for you to continue to finish out the semester or, you know, we can bridge you for a little while until you can find a new, a new job. Um, you know, we'll, we'll only have you teach certain courses or we'll have a guest lecturer come in when you have to cover this subject that is at variance and like, we'll make sure we're all clear about it, but it doesn't seem like any of that happened. And that's, um, that's no bueno. So anyway, Jesse. What are you affirming and or denying Tonight? [00:13:43] Music Recommendations Jesse Schwamb: I'm just gonna go with something brief. I suppose this is an affirmation of me. I'm saying that like somewhat tongue in cheek, but maybe it's, wait, I'll rephrase. It's because this will be more humble. I'm affirming getting it right, even more than I thought. So I'm just gonna come back to the well and dip it into something that I mentioned on the last episode. So the keen listener, the up-to-date listener might remember. And if you're not up to date, uh, just let this be fresh for you. It'll, and I, it's gonna be correct because now I have posts, you know, I'm on the other side of it. I've clear hindsight. I am affirming with the album Keep It Quiet by Gray Haven, which I affirmed last week, but it came out on the same day that the episode released. And since you and I don't really like record in real time and release it like exactly as it's happening, I only did that with some, a little bit of reservation because I only heard they only released three songs in the album. And I thought I was overwhelmed that they were, they were so good that I was ready to jump in and loved ones. Oh, it, it turns out. I was so correct and it was, it's even better than I thought. So go check it out. It's Grey, GRE, YH, and they are, this is the warning, just because I have to give it out there and then I'll balance it with something else for something for everybody here today. So, gr Haven is music that's post hardcore and metal core. You're getting two cores for the price of one, if that is your jam. It has strong maleic sensibilities. It's very emotional, it's very experimental. But this new album, which is called, um, again, keep It Quiet, is like just a work of arts. It real like the guitar work is intricate haunting, lovely, and it's bold, like very intentional in its structure and very el loose in its construction. It's got hook driven melodies and it's got both heart and soft. It really is truly a work of art. So if you're trying to, to put it in your minds, like what other bands are like this? I would compare them to bands like, every Time I Die, Norma Jean, let Live Hail the Sun. If you just heard those as combinations of words that don't mean anything to you, that's also okay. No worries. But if you're looking for something different, if you're looking for something that's maybe gonna challenge your ear a little bit, but is like orchestral and has all of these metal core post hardcore, melodic, textured movements, there's no wasted notes in this album. It's really tremendous. If that's not your thing. I get, that's not everybody's thing. Here's something else I think would be equally challenging to the ear in a different way. And that is, I'm going back to one other album to balance things out here, and that's an album that was released in 2019 by Mark Barlow, who I think is like just. So underrated. For some reason, like people have slept on Mike Barlow. I have no idea why he put together an album with Isla Vista Worship called Soul Hymns, and it's like a distinct soul and r and b album of praise with like these really lovely like falsetto, harmonies. It's got these minimalistic instrumentation, warm keys, groove oriented percussion, like again, like these false soul driven melodies. It's contemplative. It's got a groove to it. This is also equally a beautiful album for a totally different reason. So I think I've given two very book-ended, very different affirmations, but I think there's something for everybody. So my challenge to your loved ones is you gotta pick one or the other. Actually, you could do both, but either go to Gray Havens, keep it quiet, or go to Mike Bellow's Soul hymns. I do not think you will be disappointed. There's something for everybody on this one. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, it was funny because as you were saying the names of those bands, I literally was thinking like Jesse could be speaking Swahili and I wouldn't know the difference. And then you, you, you know me well, yeah. Uh, I haven't listened to Gray Haven. Uh, I probably will give it a couple minutes 'cause that's how it usually goes with songs that meet that description. Uh, I can always tell that the music that Jesse recommends is good from a technical perspective, but I never really, I never really vibe with it. So that's okay. But I mean, lots of people who listen to our show do so check that out. If, if you ever. Want a good recommendation for music. Jesse is the pers so much so that he can recommend amazing music before it's even available and be a hundred percent correct, apparently. That's right. So Jesse Schwamb: affirm with me everybody, because turns out I was right. Uh, it was easy to be correct when of course I had all of that fair sightedness by being able to listen to those. Yeah, those couple of songs, it, this is a kind of album. Both of these, both of these albums. When I heard them, I reacted audibly out loud. There are parts of both of 'em where I actually said, oh wow. Or yeah, like there's just good stuff in there. And the older you get, if you're a music fan, even if you're not, if you don't listen to a lot of music, you know when that hook gets you. You know when that turn of melody or phrase really like hits you just, right. Everybody has that. Where the beat drops in a way. You're just like, yes, gimme, you make a face like you get into it. I definitely had that experience with both of these albums and because. I've listened to a lot of music because I love listening to music. It's increasingly rare where I get surprised where, you know, like sometimes stuff is just like popular music is popular for a reason and it's good because it's popular and it follows generally some kind of like well established roots. But with these albums, it's always so nice when somebody does something that is totally unexpected. And in these, I heard things that I did not expect at all. And it's so good to be surprised in a way that's like, why have I never heard that before? That is amazing. And both of these bands did it for me, so I know I'm like really hyping them up, but they're worth it. They're, they're totally worth it. Good music is always worth it. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I think that is a good recommendation. I will check those out because, you know, you're a good brother. I usually do, and I trust your judgment even though it, you'll like the second one. Yes. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: You'll like the second one. Second one is like, just filled with praise and worship. And like, if, if you're trying to think, like say, here's how I'd couch the proper atmosphere for Mark Barlow's soul hymns you're having, you know, it's, it's a cold and chilly. A tal evening, the wind is blowing outside. You can hear the crisp leaves moving around on the pavement and the sun has gone down. The kids are in bed, the dinner dishes are piled up in the sink. But you think to yourselves, not tonight. I don't think so, and you just want that toneage to put on. You want that music as you dim the lights and you sit there to just hang out with each other and take a breath. You don't just want some kind of nice r and b moving music. You don't want just relaxing vibes. You want worshipful spirit filled vibes that propel your conversation and your intimacy, not just into the marital realm, but into worship and harmony with the triune God. If you're looking for that album, because that situation is before you, then sol hymns is the music you're looking for. Tony Arsenal: See, I'm gonna get the, I'm gonna get the recommendations backwards and I'm gonna sit down with my wife with a nice like evening cup of decaf tea and I'm gonna turn the music on. Yes, it's gonna be like, yes. That was me screaming into the microphone. That was not good for my voice. Well, the good news is it's gonna, it's gonna wake the kids up. That's, I'm gonna sleep on the couch. That's, it's gonna be bad. That's, Jesse Schwamb: honestly, that's also a good evening. It's just a different kind of evening. It's true. So it's just keep it separated again, uh, by way of your denial slash affirmation. Tony disclosure, I'm just giving you proper disclosure. Everybody know your music KYM, so that way when you have the setting that you want, you can match it with the music that you need. So it's true. Speaking of things that are always worth it. [00:21:30] Parable of the Weeds Jesse Schwamb: I think the Bible's gotta be one of those things. Tony Arsenal: It's true. Jesse Schwamb: And this is like the loosest of all segues because it's like the Sunday school segue into any topic that involves the scriptures. We're gonna be in Matthew 13, and how about we do this? So this is one of these parables and in my lovely ESV translation of the scriptures, the, we're just gonna go with the heading, which says the parable of the weeds. You may have something different and I wanna speak to that just briefly, but how do we do this, Tony? I'll hit us up with the parable and then it just so happens that this is one of the parables in the scripture that comes with an interpretation from our savior. It's true. How about you hit us up with the interpretation, which is in the same chapter if you're tracking with us, it's just a couple verses way. Does that sound good? Tony Arsenal: Let's do it. Jesse Schwamb: Okay. Here is the parable of the weeds. Jesus puts another parable before them saying The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sewed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sewed weeds among the weeds and went away. So when the plants came up and bork rain, then the weeds also appeared, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, then, do you want us to go and gather them? Then he said, no. Lest in gathering the weeds, you root up the wheat along with them, but let them grow together until the harvest and at harvest time, I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first, and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. Tony Arsenal: Alright, so then jumping down. To verse 36. We're still in Matthew 13, he says, then he left the crowds and went into the house and his disciples came to him saying, explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field. He answered, the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angel. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom, all that, all causes of sin in all lawbreakers and throw them into the fiery furnace. It is that in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father. He who has ears let him hear. Jesse Schwamb: So let me start with just like a little bit of language here, which I've always loved in this passage because where else in like the contemporary context, do you get the word tear? Yeah. Aside if you're like using a scale, and that's a totally different definition. I like this. I like the word tear. It force, it forces to understand that what's common to our ear, why that's being used, it often is translated weed. Here's just like my, my little like linguistic addition to the front end of our discussion and is the reason I like it is because here does have a specific definition. If like you were to look this up in almost any dictionary, what you're gonna find is it's like a particular type of weed. It's actually like an injurious weed that is indistinguishable in its infant form from the outgrowing of green. So I like that because of course that is exactly why. Then there's all this explanation of why then to not touch anything in the beginning because one, it causes damage to it looks like everybody else. I just thought I'd put that out there as we begin our discussion. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah. You know, I, um, I am a homeowner and I don't own the land that I'm on, but I'm responsible for the land that I'm on. And we have this really gnarly weed problem. There's this, uh, sort of floor growing, uh, carpeting weed called, uh, I think it's called like a carpeting knob, head weed or something like that. Some really descriptive thing. And I went out there the other day and there's really nothing you can do about this other than to rip it up. But I went out there the other day to start to pull some of it up and it totally wrecks the yard. Like it totally pulls up the grass, it destroys the sod. And when you're done, this is why it's kind of nice that I don't have, I'm not responsible for the land as I'm not gonna have to pay to resod the land. But when you're done pulling up this weed, you have to resod the whole place. You have to regrow all the grass because it, first, it takes over for the grass, and then when you rip it up, it rips the roots of the grass up as well. And so this parable, um, on one level is immediately obvious, like what the problem is, right? The situation is such. That the good, uh, the good sower, right? He's a good sower. He knows what he's doing. He understands that simply ripping up the weeds. Even if you could distinguish them right, there's this element that like at an early stage, they would be very difficult, if not impossible to distinguish from, uh, from wheat. Even if you could distinguish them, you still wouldn't be able to pull up the weeds and not do damage to the grain. And so we, we have this sort of like, um, conflict if you wanna follow like literary standards, right? We have this conflict and as we come to sort of the climax of this, of this plot is when all of a sudden we see that, that the problem needs a resolution and there is a resolution, but it's not necessarily what we would think it would be. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's what I find shocking. It is like a massive statement of reality that is that like equal points or equal times totally sensible. And other times we would think, well why surely not in the church Lord, like of all the places, like aren't we talking about a kind of purity of your people, the very people that you're assembling together, the chief of which is Christ and the apostles being the building stones and Christ of course being the cornerstone. And I, I think that's what I find and I wonder the people hearing this, if they thought like, well, surely Lord, that not be the case like you are bringing in and ushering in this new kingdom. Isn't this new kingdom gonna be one of absolute purity? And, and what I think he's striking at, which I do find a little bit wild, is that Jesus essentially saying, at least to my ear, anything we try to do, even like the purest preaching of the gospel, is not gonna prevent this in every age of the church. The same state of the things that's existed in that is in the time of the early fathers. In the first century, and the church as it stands right now in the land and the time of the reformers, and of course with the best ministers at this hour right now and on your next Lord's day, and everyone after that, there is always and ever will be a visible church or a religious assembly in which the members are not all wheat. Yeah. And then I like what you're saying. It's this idea that. There's a great harm that's gonna come about if you try to lift them up because you cannot tell. So, and this is what's hard, I think this does influence like how we interact with people online. Certainly how we interact with people in our own congregations, but we are going to have no clear convicted proofs. We might only have like probable symptoms if we're really trying to judge and weigh out to discern the weeds from the weeds, which at most can only give us some kind of conjectural knowledge of another state. And that is gonna sometimes preemptively judge cause us to judge others in a way that basically there's a warning against here. It, it's, it's not the right time. And ba I think mainly from the outside where I find like this parable coming together, if there's like maybe a weird Venn diagram of the way Christians read this and the way unbelievers hear this, the overlap between them is for me, often this idea of like hypocrisy and you know. When people tell me that the church is full of hypocrites, either like Christian or non-Christian, but typically that's a, a, you know, statement that comes from the non-Christian tongue. When people say that the church is full of hypocrites, I do with a little bit of snark, say it's definitely not full of hypocrites. There are always room for more in the church and, and there's like a distinction of course between the fact that there is hypocrisy in the Christian or whether the Christian is in fact or that person is a hypocrite. So like when I look through the scriptures, we see like Pharaoh confessing, we see Herod practicing, we see Judas preaching Christ Alexander venturing his life for Paul. Yeah, we see David condemning in another, what he himself practiced and like hezeki glorifying and riches Peter. Doing all kinds of peter stuff that he does, and even all the disciples forsaken Christ, an hour of trouble and danger. So all that to say, it goes back to this like lack of clear, convicted proofs that I think Jesus is bringing forward here, but only probable symptoms. And I'm still processing, of course, like the practicality of what you're saying, Tony, that in some ways it seems like abundantly clear and sensible that you should, you're, you're gonna have a problem distinguishing. But our human nature wants to go toward distinguishing and then toward uprooting sometimes. And the warning here is do not uproot at the improper time. And in fact, it's not even yours to uproot because God will send in the laborers to do that at the time of, of harvest. And so there will be weeds found among the wheat. It's just like full stop statement. And at the same time it's warning, do not go after them now. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, I'm sure this, um, I, I'm sure this will spill over into a second conversation, but we, I think we have to talk a little bit about the interpretation here before we, before we even like talk more about the parable itself, because if you're not careful, um, and, and. I need to do a little bit more study on this, but it, it's interesting because Matthew almost seems to want you to sort of blend these parables together a little bit. Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Tony Arsenal: Right. These, these, there's three, um, there's three, maybe four if you count the parable of the treasure in the field. But there's three agricultural parables that have to do with sowing seed of one, of, one way or another. And in each one the seed is something different. And I, it almost seems to me. And then on top of that, the parables are like interwoven within each other. So like right smack in the middle of this, we have the parable. Uh, is given. Then the next parable of the mustard seed, which we're gonna talk about in a future episode, is given, and then the explanation of this parable of the tears is given. Um, and so we have to talk a little bit about it and sort of establish what the seed is, because we just spent three weeks talking about the seed in the par of the sower. Um, or the parable of the, of the soils. And in that parable, the seed was the word of God in this parable. And this is where I think sometimes, um, and again, this is like the doctrine of election in parable form, right? Yes. I think sometimes we read this and we, we misstep because the seed is not, uh, is not the word of God in this. The seed is the believers. Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Tony Arsenal: Right. So the good seed is sewn into, uh, into the field, which, you know, I think maybe there'll be some, we, we can save this for, for next week. But a little sneak peek is, it's not always clear exactly what the field is. Right. And I think we often, we often talk about the field as though it's the church that doesn't necessarily align a hundred percent with how Christ explains the parable. So we'll have to, we'll have to talk through that a little bit. I affirm that it is the church in, in a, a broad sense. Um, but, but the, the way that Christ explains it slightly different, but the, the seed is sewn into the world. The sons of the kingdom of heaven are sowed into the, into the world. And then the seed of the enemy, the bad seed, is the sons of the devil that's also sewn into the world. And so these two seeds grow up next to each other. If we think about the seed here as though it's the word of God, rather than the, the actual believers and unbelievers that elect in the ate, we're gonna make some missteps on how we understand this because we're not talking about, um, the, the seed being, you know, doctrine being sewn into the world. And some of it grows up good and some of it grows up bad or good doctrine and bad doctrine. We're talking about the believers themselves. Sorry, Jesse is mocking my rapid attempt to mute before I cough, which I, I did. That was pretty good. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that was, that was pretty good. Listen, this is real. Podcasting is how it goes. Yeah, I'm with you. Thank you for pulling out that distinction. 'cause it is critical. We, we have some overlap of course, with Jesus being really ascribed as the farmer, the son of man, right. He's sowing this good seed, but not the word. It's believers or the sons of the kingdom. And it is into his field, which is the world. Part of that world of course, is necessarily the church, right? But while everybody's sleeping, this enemy, the devil, he comes, he sows weeds or unbelievers, the sons of the evil one among this weed, they grow, go up together. And of course, like if I were servants in this household, I'd ask the same thing, which was like, should we get the gloves out? Yeah. Just pull those bad boys out. Like and, and so again, that's why I find it very so somewhat shocking that. It's not just, you could see like Jesus saying something like, don't worry about it now because listen, at the end of all time when the harvest comes, uh, I'm gonna take care of it. Like it's just not worth it to go out now. Right. That's not entirely The reason he gives, the reason is lest they uproot the wheat by mistake. So this is showing that the servants who are coming before Jesus in the parable, in this teaching here to really volitionally and with great fidelity and good obedience to him to want to please him to do his will. He there, he's basically saying, you are not qualified to undertake this kind of horticulture because you're just not either skilled enough or discerning enough to be able to do it right. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think, um. Maybe just a word of meth methodology too. Um, this parable also flies in the face of all of the, like, parables are not allegories, kind of kind of people. Um, and this is, we talked about this in our introductory episode. You have to take each parable for what it's worth, this parable very much is explained like a traditional allegory, right? Right. [00:35:39] Understanding the Parable's Symbols Tony Arsenal: It's got, it's got several different elements and Christ goes through and the first thing he does is tell you what each element represents, right? The sower is the son of man, the field is the word. The good seed is the sons of the kingdom of the weed. It's like, he's like clicking down all of the symbols and then he explains how all of it works together and like a good, all like a good allegory. Once you understand what each element and each symbol is, the rest of it actually is very self-explanatory, right? When you understand who's what in the parable. The outcome and the sort of the punchline writes itself as it were. And I think this is one of those parables that we would do. [00:36:18] Challenging Our Sensibilities Tony Arsenal: I think we would do well to sort of let marinate a little bit because it does challenge a lot of our sensibilities of what, um, what is real in the world, what is real in terms of our interaction with the world, right? What's real in terms of the role of unbelievers in the life of a Christian, um, whether we can identify who is or isn't an unbeliever. Um, I think we, you know, I, I'm not one of those people that's like, we should assume everyone's a Christian. And I'm certainly not one of those people who's like, we should assume nobody is a Christian. But I think there are a lot of times where we have figures either in public or people in our lives. Like personal acquaintances that have some sort of outward appearance. And, and that's like the key here that that distinction between weeds is a, is not a great translation as you said. Right. Because right. That distinction between wheat and weeds, to go to my analogy, like it's very clear what is grass and what is this like carpeting, knob weed. Like there's no, there's no doubt in my mind, which is the weed and which is the grass. Um, that's not what we're talking about here. And so it does, it does say here, I mean, it implies here that it's not going to be easy to distinguish the difference between exactly. The, a son of the kingdom and a son of the evil one. And I think that's a, that's a. A theological pill that is very difficult to swallow. Yes. [00:37:43] Personal Reflections on Identifying Christians Tony Arsenal: Because a lot of us, um, and this goes back to like what I, what we were saying in the last, the last parable, A lot of us were reared in our Christian faith on sort of this idea that like, you can check your fruit or you can check other people's fruits and you can determine, you can easily identify who's a Christian and who's not. I remember when I was in high school, you know, I got, I was converted when, when I was 15 and, um, I got to high school and it felt very easy to me to be able to identify the people who were play acting Christianity and the people who were real Christians. That felt like the most natural thing in the world to me. Um, it, it's an interesting story, but one of the people that I was absolutely sure was not a Christian. That he was just doing kinda civic Christianity. He was in confirmation 'cause his parents wanted him to. Um, and I had good reason to believe that at the time he was very worldly. He, he, um, did not seem to be serious about his faith at all. There was good reason to make the assessment that I did. And then I ran into him on Facebook like 15 years later and he's a pastor at the Lutheran Church and he's, you know, he loves the Lord Jesus Christ. And he would not explain it as though he had a later conversion story. It's not as though he would say like, well yeah, in high school I pretended to be a Christian. And then, you know, I got through college and uh, I really became like I got converted. He would, would grow this, or he would explain this as slow, steady growth from an immature state that knew the facts of the gospel and in a certain sense trusted that Jesus was his savior and didn't fully understand the ramifications of that. I mean, who did at 15 years old? Mm-hmm. Um. And, and that it was a slow, steady growth to the place that he's in now. [00:39:21] The Difficulty of Distinguishing Believers Tony Arsenal: So I, I think we should take seriously, and maybe this is the takeaway for this week at least, and we can, we can talk about it more, is we should take seriously the fact that the Sons of the Kingdom and the Sons of the evil one in this parable are not only inseparable without doing damage, but in many ways they are not easily distinguishable. Jesse Schwamb: Right. On. Tony Arsenal: Um, and that, that's a baked into the parable. And I think we do spend a fair amount of time and I, I'll. I'll throw myself on on this. You know, this, we, I'm not just saying we, um, we as a genuine statement, like I have participated in this. I'm sure that I still do participate in this sometimes intentionally. Other times, uh, subconsciously we spend a fair amount of time probably in our Christian lives trying to figure out who is a Christian who's not. And it's not as though that is entirely illegitimate, right? The, the, as much as we kind of poke at the, the, um, workers in this who sort of are kind of chumps, right? They're sort of like the idiots in this. They, they don't seem to know how this happened. They propose a course of action that then the master's like, no, no, that's not, that's not gonna work. They can tell the difference, right? They can see that some are weeds and some are are weeds, and they're asking, well, what do we do about it? But at the same time he is saying like, you're not really competent to tell the difference, Jesse Schwamb: right? On Tony Arsenal: a good, uh, a good. Competent farmer could probably go out and take all the weeds out. Just like a really good, I dunno, landscape technician, I'm not sure what you would call it. I'm sure someone could come into my yard and if I paid them enough money they could probably fix this knobby grass, weed, whatever it is. Um, infestation. They could probably fix it without damaging the lawn. Like there are probably people that could do it. I am not that competent person and the workers in this are not that competent person. And I would say by and large in our Christian life, we are not that competent person to be able to identify who is and who isn't, um, a Christian who is or isn't a son of the kingdom versus a son of the devil. Jesse Schwamb: And there's sometimes like we just get history reprised, or it's like, again, the same thing microwaved over and served to you three or four times as leftovers. So it's also gonna remember like any as extension that like any attempt to like purify the church perfectly, and this has happened like donatism in the fourth century I think, or even like now, certain sectarian movements are completely misguided. Yeah. And Jesus already puts that out ahead of us here. It's almost like, do not worry what God is doing because God again is, is doing all the verbs. So here's a question I think we should discuss as we, we move toward like the top of the hour. And I think this is interesting. I don't know if you'll think it's interesting. I, I kind of have an answer, but I, I'll post it here first. [00:42:01] Visible vs. Invisible Church Jesse Schwamb: So the setup like you've just given us is two things. One, we got the visible church, we talk about the visible church. I think a lot across our conversations. Yeah. And we might summarize it, saying it's like the community of all who profess faith, maybe even the community of all who are baptized. Right. Possibly. Yeah. And it's going to include then necessarily as Jesus describes it here, true and false believers. So that's one group. Then we've got this invisible church, which as you said is the elect. Those who are known perfectly to God. So the good seed is those elect true believers. The weeds, then the weeds to me, or the tears, even better, they sound a lot like that. Second and third soils that we talked about previously to some, to some degree. I'm not, I'm not gonna lump them all in because we talked about receiving the word and it taking root, all that stuff, but to some degree, and also probably like a soil one. But here's, here's the way I would define them up and against or in contradistinction to the elector believers. They're the reprobate. They're false professors or they're children of the evil one. Now here's the question, Doni, Alex, I, I think this is very interesting. I'm trying to build this up for like more dramatic effect. 'cause now I'm worried it's not that good. The question is, I'm going to presume that this good seed, the elect, true to believers, the confidence of perseverance of the saints, the justification in sanctification of God's children is in fact though we at some points have our own doubts, it is made fully aware and known to the good seed. That is, we should have, as you and I have talked about before, the confidence that God has in fact saved his elect. So the question that on the other side is for the ta, do the tears always know that they are the tears? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, um, I've said this before and I, I mean it, and I think it takes probably more. More discussion than we have time for tonight. And and that's fine because we can do as many episodes on this as we want to. 'cause this is our show and you can't stop us actually. Jesse Schwamb: Correct. [00:43:56] Assurance of Faith and False Assurance Tony Arsenal: Um, I've said before that assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian. Jesse Schwamb: Amen. Tony Arsenal: Right. So I, I am not one to say that the technical terminology is that assurance is not of the essence of faith. Um, I think we have to be really careful when we say that it's not, but we have to be equally careful when we say that it is. Because if we say that assurance is of the essence of faith, then what that means is someone who doesn't have assurance, doesn't have faith. Um, the reason I say that we can say that is because there's a sense that that's true, right? If you don't believe you're saved, then you don't believe you're saved and you don't trust that you're saved. But that doesn't mean that you always have full awareness of that confidence. And, you know, I think, um, I think. I think you're, you're right that, um, it may not always be, let me put it this way. I, I think that we have to consider the entire life of a Christian when we're, when we're making that analysis. And in a certain sense, like, I'm not even sure we should be making that analysis. That's kind of the point of the, the, um, the parable here, or at least one of the points. But, um, when that analysis is made, we'll, we'll channel a little bit of RC sprawl. It's not as funny when he's actually, uh, gone. I don't really mean channel RC sprawl. We will, uh, speak in the tradition of RC sprawl, um, in the final analysis, whatever that means. Whenever that is. You have to consider the whole life of a Christian, the whole life of a believer. And so there may be times in the life of a believer where they don't possess that full assurance of faith or that that full assurance is weak or that it seems to be absent. But when we look at the entire life of a believer, um, is it a life that overall is marked by a confident trust, that they are in fact children of God? Um, that a confident, uh, a confident embracing of what the spirit testifies to their spirit, to, to borrow language from Romans, I think in, in the life of a true elect Christian, um, that with the perseverance of the saints, uh, with the persistence of the saints and the preservation of the saints, um, I think that yes, those who are finally saved, those who are saved unto salvation, if you wanna phrase it that way. They finish the race, they claim the prize. Um, that assurance will be their possession in their life as a Christian. Jesse Schwamb: Right on. Tony Arsenal: All of that to say, I think there are, are, there's a good case to be made for the fact that there is also people who have false assurance, right? And this is where it takes a lot more, you know, finagling and jockeying and theological explanation of how can we know we have true assurance versus false assurance. You know, it's kinda like that question, like, does an insane person know they're insane? Well, does a false, does someone with false assurance know that their assurance is false? I don't think, I don't think so. Otherwise, it wouldn't be false assurance. Um, if they knew it wasn't real assurance, then they wouldn't have any kind of assurance. So I, I think I agree with you at least where, where I think you're going is that we do have to, we do have to make some judgements. We have to look at our own life, right? Um, there is an element of fruitfulness in this parable, right? We'll talk about that. I, I think we'll get into that next week. But it's not as though this is entirely disconnected from the parable of the soils. Both of them have a very similar kind of. End point. [00:47:20] Final Judgment and Eschatology Tony Arsenal: At the end of all things, at the end of the harvest, when the end of the age comes, and the reapers, the angels are sent, what they're gathering up are fruitful Christians, right in the parable, he sends out the, it's funny be, I love my dispensational brothers and sisters, but in this parable, like the rapture is the rapture of the unbelievers, right? The angels go out and reap the unbelievers first. The, the weeds are bundled up and thrown into the fire, and then the, the fruitful wheat is gathered into the barns. Um, there is this delineation between the fruitless weeds and the fruitful wheat or the, the grain that has borne, you know, borne fruit. That is part of what the, the outward. Elements of this parable are, so we should talk about that more, of what is this trying to get at in terms of not just the difference between weeds and wheat and how that maps up to those who are in Christ versus those who are not in Christ, but also like what is this telling us about the, the end of the age eschatology. All of that's baked in here and we haven't even scratched the surface of that Jesse Schwamb: yet. Yeah, we, we, I, and we just can't, even on this episode, probably, you're right, we're gonna have to go to two so that, I guess it's like a teaser for the next one. I'm told they're with you. It's interesting. I've been thinking about that, that question a lot. And I do like what you're saying. You know, at the end here, it's almost as if Christ is saying at the time of harvest, things become more plain, more evident In the beginning. The chutes are gonna look really, really similar, and you're gonna go in and you're gonna think you're guessing properly or using your best judgment, and you're gonna get it wrong in the end when he sends out those who are harvesting. I liken this passage here in the explanation as you read to us starting in verse 36, how there's this comparison of heat and light. And so there is the heat and light of the fiery furnace into which, as you said, all of those who are the children of the enemy will be gathered up and burned. And then there's that contrast with in verse 43, then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father. So there is like a reward that comes from the bearing of the fruit and that made evidence by a different type of heat and light. So I do struggle with this question because. It's easy to answer in some ways if we're defining the weeds in pirate or the tears in pirates as false professors typically. Let's say false professors of a nefarious kind, then it seems pretty plain that somebody, right, that the enemy has implanted certain people to stir up trouble with the intention to stir up trouble that is in fact their jam. Or they know that even if they're putting on heirs, that they're in fact play acting that the hypocrisy is purposeful and that it is part of like the missional efforts that they're doing to disrupt what God is doing in the world. So I might think of somebody like when we go, when we're looking in, um, Exodus, and we find that at least to some degree, all of Pharaoh's magicians can replicate everything that Moses is doing. Moses doing that by the power of God. But the magicians are so good and whatever means they're using, but they know, I presume they know they're not, they're not using Yahweh, they're not drawing their power or their influence from Yahweh. Tony Arsenal: Right? Jesse Schwamb: But it's so convincing to the people that Pharaoh is like, eh. Obviously I've seen that before because we just, we just did that here. Come back with your next trick until God flexes his mighty muscles in a really profound way, which cannot be replicated. And at some point there's a harvest that happens there. There's a separation between the two, those who are truly professing, the power that comes from God, the one true God, and those that are just replicating the cheap copy, the one that's just pure trickery and smoke and mirrors. So. That's an easy category. I'm with you. And I'm not saying that this is an invitation to bring the kind of judgment here that we've just spoken against. I'm not condoning this. What I do find interesting though is if the enemy is crafty, is it possible that they're always going to be forms of terror in the world that do feel that they have very strong conviction and belief about biblical things? Maybe there's, there's strong hobby horses or there are misguided directions here that pull us apart, that become distractions. Or maybe it's just even attitudes, uh, things that can be divisive, disruptive, derogatory that again, pull us away. For making the plain things, the main things and the main things, the plain things, which in some ways draws us back to like the whole purpose of you and I talking every week, which is we wanna get back to what the scripture teaches. We wanna follow the our Lord Jesus Christ very, very closely. I'm gonna clinging to the hymn of his rob as we walk through life so that we do not fall to those kind of false convictions. So I'm not, please hear me, loved ones. I'm not trying to call into question your faith as Tony just said. I am saying that there, this is kind of scary, just like we talked about. There are elements of the parables of the, of the soil that were equally scary. And so it's just in some ways to say, we gotta keep our heads not theological, swivel. We, we gotta be about the Lord's business, and we gotta be about understanding through prayer and study and communion with him, what it is that he wants to teach us in the purest way, knowing that the church itself and the world, of course, is never going to be entirely pure. At the same time, it is our responsibility to, as you already said, test for ourselves to understand what is that true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because some tears are going to be maybe easy to identify and with without, you know, throwing too much shade or. I was gonna say spilling the TI don't think that works here, but I'm not young anymore, so I'm trying to use or or put on blast. Yeah. I'm looking at you Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses. Like it's, it's easier there to be like, yeah, right, this is wrong. It is a false profession, but we've just gotta be careful even in our own hobby, horses not deviates into ground. I think that doesn't preclude us from being children of the light and children of the kingdom, but can still be disruptive or uh, you know, just distracting. But either way, yeah. I think what's scary to me about this is exactly what you said, Tony, is, is could it be that there are people that are very sincere about the Christian faith, but are sincerely wrong? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And what does that mean for God's elected purpose? What does that mean for our understanding of how to interact in our churches in the world? Does that make sense? Tony Arsenal: It does. And I'm not sure whether you were trying to set up the, what might be the first genuine reformed brotherhood cliffhanger, but you did. Because we're on minute 54 of a 60 minute podcast, and, uh, there's no way we're gonna get into that and not go for another 60 minutes. So, Jesse, I, I'm, I'm glad that we are taking our time. Um, I know that sometimes it's easy when you put out a schedule or you put out a sort of projected content calendar to feel like you have to stick to it. But I wanna give these parables, the time they deserve and the effort and the, uh, the, uh, study and the discussion that they deserve. And I think the questions you're posing here at the end of this episode are really, really important. And they are questions that this parable forces us to ask. Right, right. It's not as though we're just using this as a launching pad. Um. If the workers can't tell the difference between the, the seed and the, or the, the weeds and the weeds, it's reasonable to think that the weeds themselves may not be able to tell the difference. Right? The sons of the evil one, um, are probably not in this parable, are probably not the people like in the back, like doing fake devil horns, right? And like, you know, like there's, there's probably more going on that we need to unpack and, and we'll do that next week. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. So we've got some good stuff coming then, because we've gotta, this is like, do you ever remember when you were in, uh, you know, doing your undergraduate postgraduate work, you'd get like a topic or an assignment or a paper and you'd be super stoked about it and you start reaching it, be like, okay, researching it. And you'd be like, all right, I've got some good topics here. And then you get into it, you're like, oh, but I'm gonna have to talk about this. And Oh, like before I could talk, I'm gonna have to explain this. Sometimes when we get into these, as you and I have been talking, that's what it feels li

Tiff and Britt celebrate all the leaders in the dentistry for National Boss's Day! They talk about key qualities the best leaders have, maintaining a humility/confidence balance, how leadership is entrepreneurship, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript; The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am here today. This is a special drop-in This is an extra podcast this month from the consulting team You guys know our avid listeners know that we do quite a few podcasts every month here It takes a bulk of podcasts every month But ours always kind of coincide with the information that we're working on the newsletters that you guys are getting So if you're not subscribed to the newsletters go pop in there on that but we have an extra one today and I have a special guest with me I'm calling you a guest now because   Britt (00:00) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (00:30) I don't pull you in on these as much, Britt, and I have Ms. Brittany Stone. And Britt, I mean, it's gotta be nice over there, like, floating through life on the HR side, you know? But every now and again, I gotta pull you in and wrangle you back to the consulting side. So welcome, and I'm just, I'm excited to have you here today, Britt. How are you?   Britt (00:50) I like that you call it floating through life over there, Tiff, right? I'm happy to ask a person what it is.   The Dental A Team (00:54) I'm just, I'm projecting it for you. Yeah, I'm projecting   it. That way you can like create it. What we say we create, right?   Britt (01:01) Exactly.   We do have an amazing team. It's fun to be here. know consultants get the opportunity to be on here. Even Eve with marketing, so proud of her that she did a podcast as well. So I'm happy I get to stop back in for a little bit.   The Dental A Team (01:17) Yeah, I mean, you reminded   me that Eve was just on Not That Long Ago now, and I'm just mixing it up for these listeners right now. You guys are welcome. This is this is becoming a spicy podcast. So here we go. I love it. Full team. know. Next thing you know, we'll see who I pull in. But probably nothing any more exciting than this. You guys. They're behind the scenes for a reason, right? They are behind.   Britt (01:29) The whole team, the whole team.   Good luck on any of the rest of them. ⁓   I really enjoy   being in that spot.   The Dental A Team (01:46) Yeah, Britt did not, you guys. Just a quick tidbit. Britt has come out of herself quite a bit. And do you remember, Britt, I was just thinking like one of the first, I remember where we were sitting, where I was sitting, at least in my apartment when we had to do the Zoom, because Kiera's like, we got to do videos. People are doing video podcasts now. We got to keep up with it. We got to do videos. And you and I were like, what? Like, I am not dressed for this. Like, and we were so awkward and uncomfortable and it was so weird. Do you remember?   Britt (02:14) I do and you know that's like voice was weird enough for me at least you know karma works in my favor that I didn't have to go full throttle from the very beginning of doing things I got an intro of just doing voice and then eventually adding video   The Dental A Team (02:23) there.   Very fair, very fair. And I think as a leader on our team, that kind of spurs right into what our conversation today is about. And Britt, you are an incredible fearless leader on our team. And I think doing this podcast with you is divine and just meant to be. are someone that I look up to, that I know the whole team looks up to. And just that in itself, like the things that you have worked through, overcome. I remember when you first came on, I'm like, talk to yourself in the mirror. You're like, okay, crazy. Like, yeah, I am.   I am crazy, but it works. And you did it. Like you just jumped in and you were like, I'm going to figure this out. And that is just a piece of leadership that I think you're naturally born with, the figure out-ness. Like it's fine. Anything can be figured out. Whether you do it for the long run or not, you can figure it out and train someone else to do it. So having you on on the leadership piece here is actually just super like natural, right? Like it just is natural. So thank you for being here.   Britt (03:26) You bet, you're generous, Tiff. I problem solving for sure. Kiera will say there's always a solution and that is yes, being a leader, there's always a path through. I don't know exactly what it might be right now, but there's always a pathway through. And ⁓ yeah, it's, ⁓ I think also being a leader, it's a constant ⁓ humble of being able to learn is helps you continue to learn skills to be a better leader over time.   The Dental A Team (03:51) I totally agree with you. And we learn from each other, I think, and we continue to grow. We continue to refine those aspects of ourselves and those aspects of who we are and who we want to become. And it just makes it really, really cool. And today's special podcast, you guys should know. Hopefully, you know, this is dropping on a very special day. It's it's considered Boss's Day. I wish it was like Leaders Day. I don't I don't love the word boss in 2025. Yeah.   Britt (04:17) Can we have a for you to end that a little bit?   The Dental A Team (04:19) We've rebranded so many holidays and so many names of things. I think this one's definitely on the list of need. But I think of Boss' Day as like Leader's Day. I think that it's just a day to celebrate leadership and it's a day to celebrate today of all days the reason that we have, we'll say jobs, right? The reason that we're here today, the reason that we have a company to work for. And I just think it's really cool to take a moment and a special time to really thank those   those people, the entrepreneurs that we work for. And the other day someone said to me like, I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm like, they're an entrepreneur. They own a business. Like they're dentists. know they are entrepreneurs. Just like Kiera is an entrepreneur and she is the leader of this ship and she is to be celebrated today just the same as the rest of you guys are. And Britt and I thought we would take a moment to celebrate Kiera. We will get there. Kiera, don't you worry. Keep listening. We are going to get there.   ⁓ celebrate Kiera, but also to just celebrate you guys too and to really highlight some fantastic leadership skills that we've seen come about in our journeys, but also things that we see practices doing that set them apart from other practices in the leadership spectrum. And Britt, I think that it would be wild to start anywhere else. You tell me I might be totally wrong, but I really believe that leadership is a culture that you create.   and learning how to hone in leadership, think people kind of start all over the place. They're like, well, start with accountability. I'm like, well, first you gotta start where you want, how do you want to show up? Like, how do you want people to view you? How do you wanna be seen as a company and as individuals? And I think that culture piece, can be hard to understand. I might be like making things up, but I think it's something that really great leaders get.   is that they are the culture of the company. And from your perspective, Britt, you've helped create the culture of this company. You're a massive leader within our own company, but you've also worked with many, leaders, even before Dental A Team, to help build businesses, to help build successful entrepreneurial businesses and sectors. What have you seen as just important leadership qualities that really hone in   that culture that doctors and owners can take away from today.   Britt (06:44) Yeah, I love it, Tiffanie. It truly does start at the top. And I think that's probably one of the most important things for anyone who's an entrepreneur, anyone on the team who's got some sort of influence upon other people, which is pretty much everyone, is to number one, like recognize that, yes, you are a leader. And number two, like you said, recognize that it really does start with you and the impact that you have and what it shapes your culture.   I think some of the best leaders that I've had the privilege of being around or working with, I think number one, there's like a confidence humility balance that happens with them because they are confident enough, more confident than I, to like go and take this big chance and go have this business, make that investment, it's gonna be successful. So they've got that strong confidence piece in them.   while also realizing that yes, there are human sides sometimes we've got to shape ourselves a little bit to become that leader and create that culture within our team. And so being able to recognize that and acknowledge it and take that responsibility on as a leader, I even have to catch myself doing it sometimes. Right, sometimes, well, it's just, that's the way I am. No, that's not a good answer, right, for something. That's not a, that's an excuse 100%. It's not just the way I am or I'm learning about that.   thing or I'm working on becoming better at that thing instead of saying, well, that's just what it is and move on and deal with it because that doesn't get us anywhere. So I think kind of that humility, confidence mix. you know, I think anywhere you go and you've heard it before, right, people remember how you make them feel. And I think really good leaders have a genuine just want for their people to do well as humans and in their job.   And it's amazing the power that comes behind that. I'm thinking of, just had the opportunity to see one of my old bosses recently. And just like the excitement he has for what I'm doing now. And I quit, I left his office to come and do this. And he's still so excited about it. I think that goes a long ways for team members and building leaders because it builds confidence in your team around you.   and helps you to one, not only build up your team, but also build up more leaders, which everyone needs.   The Dental A Team (09:10) Yeah,   I love that. love that I actually get to see my boss that I left next Monday. So I'll probably have a similar experience. But I love the way you said that, Britt, that confidence, but with that humble and I kind of as you're as you're talking, my brain's kind of putting it in steps. And it's almost like you've got to develop yourself to the point that you have the confidence to say yes to take that step to run for it. But then the next layer is peeling back enough ego.   can't rid of the whole ego because you need some sort of ego. Ego is good, but it can be too much. It's peeling back the ego and realizing that you're not losing confidence or losing status by being humble or by being vulnerable in your leadership. And so I actually find vulnerability to be a space of higher confidence. I feel like the more confident you are, the more vulnerable.   Britt (09:54) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (10:06) you are able to be with like that true confidence definition. And so it's kind of that like you needed the momentum. It's it's kind of like Brody. He's 17 and he has all of these things that he wants to do and he has all these decisions he's trying to make. But he doesn't have his brain hasn't developed yet enough to see the logistical steps that happen after that decision is made. Like it's like this decision and then the next one. Right. So it's kind of those   steps of entrepreneurship is like, had to have enough confidence to make this first decision, but now I'm no longer 17 years old, my brain needs to develop, right? So it's almost like you get here and now you're developing that skill of humble, vulnerable leader and peeling back those layers to say, is now where we're at. And that's where that culture piece comes in. And I think it's where the culture   shifts come in for so many practices because we had to hire people, we had to have what we have, and then we get to a point, I would say, I would venture to say three to five years in, you get to the point where it's like, okay, this feels chaotic. How do we back up and almost restart because we're backing up, peeling off those layers, and then adding something back in. And I think, you highlighted that really well.   Britt (11:08) Thank   you   The Dental A Team (11:31) and those characteristics ⁓ being developed over time are like, it's just the only way to really do it. And to think that right off the bat of practice ownership straight out of school, you're gonna have all of those skills is kind of crazy. So I love the way that you had said that. And I think we've all had the opportunity on some level or another to watch each other grow in those spaces, ⁓ but to highlight Kiera in this moment for Boss's Day.   she's an incredible boss, is really watching her develop those is something that we all get to take away. So she has that humble vulnerability. Doesn't always come easily and you guys, like you'll stumble. You're gonna have to have some space where you're like, that wasn't my best foot, which it almost was because it created the situation we're in to have the conversation we're having. So I just don't ever look at anything as a total loss. I look at everything as like a step forward.   but she's able to do those pieces for us and with us because we're all growing at the same rate she is. We're like a percentage or two behind her, right? But she's leading the pack and creating that culture. if Kiera's turbulent, we're turbulent. If Kiera's, she doesn't even have to be in the company, you guys. Like she does not even have to be here with us, we know. We're virtual.   Britt (12:41) Mm-hmm.   No.   virtual or virtually.   The Dental A Team (13:00) Good, yeah, good point because I have a lot of doctors that are like, how do I get this culture to work without me here? This is that space where Kiera has led us in this fight of culture to where we've all been able to pick up those pieces and embody them. We embody who the Dental A Team is and it's not necessarily Kiera. We're not mini Kiras by any mean. We are embodying the Dental A Team culture.   so that the company can be successful and we can carry the culture without care of being here. And I think that comes from that next layer, right? We push forward, we have the confidence, peel back the layer, we have the vulnerability, and then we train and teach that by showing and doing, by being. Like, you live it so that people can live.   Britt (13:53) Tiff, and as you were saying that, right, that confidence piece, and we've all experienced it. I don't care who you are, right? You've hit that point where like it's just a tough spot. Whether it's a tough thing you learn about yourself, whether it's a tough spot business-wise, right? We hit those tough points and that the confidence that leaders have is the confidence to say, all right, and...   We keep going and this makes us better, right? Like that's the confidence to where it's not, they're not backing down, right? Have their moment great. As my brother tells me, you got five minutes, go cry about it and then let's move on from it. You know, something like that. It's like, fill your emotions, let it out, but then it's time to move on and start progressing from here instead of letting that derail us completely.   The Dental A Team (14:45) Absolutely, absolutely. And when we're given that availability, it changes and shapes who we are. Because I think then the last thing people want to do is take stuff home to their families. And that's where people come in, they're like, tiff, right, how do I get this work-life balance? I'm like, I hate that word. You guys know that, you've heard me preach about it. We're not going to go down that rabbit hole. This is where it happens though, where you can show up and be respectful, but be yourself and be able to work.   through things together, that you don't take things home and then you come to work worse. Like it's this bad spiral. And when the culture does start to shift in that direction, it's having the confidence plus vulnerability to be able to say, we need to have a conversation. Like something's off, we're off. Kiera and do that a lot, right? We'll say something feels wrong. the words aren't matching the tone or like the way I'm hearing them, it doesn't match what I   think your intention is, so like, let's squash through that real quick because what happens is if we stay on that space, it's just like a battle of egos at that point and you think I'm showing up confidently, like I'm showing up strong. Sometimes, but mostly we need to be like, wait a second, what is that that I heard? Walk me through that first. That's the vulnerability space, because you might say, well, you said something that really hurt my feelings. Got it, tell me, let's work through it.   Britt (16:10) I   The Dental A Team (16:12) And I know we have been trained in our lifetime here that work is not a space for emotions, work is not a space for feelings. And that's just not, it's fine if that's what you want your culture to be. And I'm here to stand on the fact that create your culture to be what you want it to be. Our company's culture is to tackle things as they happen. And it's something that we've been able to develop over time. ⁓   with respect to one another and respectful communication. So thank you, Britt. That was beautiful. I think the doctors that we attract and the teams that we attract kind of, I think we attract, like attracts like, and we attract practices that are looking for culture similar to ours or have culture similar to ours and need to step it up a little bit more or just get to that next level. And   think now, Britt, is there anything else you wanna add to that before?   we start our brag   Britt (17:10) I   only other thing I would add to that, right, as you listeners are out there, whatever stage that you are in, right, we worked with a lot of leaders as well and people we learned from all the time from our clients and also that we get to help them along that journey of leadership. Because I don't know about you, Tiff, but thinking back on clients, right, I've got clients where the leader they were when they opened the door with four employees is different than the leader they are now.   where they're going into multiple locations and have now leaders built up underneath them who do a lot of things for them. I think giving credit to the amount of personal growth and leadership growth that takes to transition within your business to a different stage and a different size even. And so it's a lot of fun for us to be able to be a part of that and help out with that.   And also I know a lot of our doctors who come to us and there's a lot of things that as a leader, you cannot complain down. That's just one of the things you can't complain down. And so you've got to have someone to work through things with. And sometimes it's not the prettiest when you're working through those things. And so being able to be that outside person so that our doctors can work through those things with us and we can work through it so that they can go present to their team.   as the leader that they want to show up as. That's ultimately who they are, but right, we're all growing and changing. And so it's helping them to be able to have that support, to be able to go and then present to their team as the leader that they want to be. So I think that's the only thing is everyone is always learning. Perfection is never something that you are gonna reach. It's a constant growth that we're looking for. And as we work with our leaders, is the leader you are today.   will not be the leader you are in five years. Thank goodness. We will all be better than we are currently.   The Dental A Team (19:05) Yeah.   Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Like, thank goodness I'm not the mom I am today, the same as the mom I was when he was four. Yeah, that was beautiful. Thank you. I totally agree. And acknowledging that, like you said, being okay with it, ⁓ understanding you're not going to be the same as you were and your team shouldn't be either. So I know a lot of leaders will feel held back where they're like, gosh, but my team knows me as this person. And it's like saying, well, my husband knows me as my 20 year old version.   Britt (19:11) huh.   Okay.   The Dental A Team (19:37) self. So me taking these new courses or expanding my thoughts or doing yoga instead of workouts at the gym would be different. How will he view me? It's kind of the same. Like you guys grow together or you grow apart. And if you've got team members that aren't ready to take that next stage with you, that's okay too. Just know if you hold yourself back, you're holding your team back too. So perfect, Brett. I love it.   ⁓ so I have, we have, we have something fun for Kiera. I know she listens to these. I know specifically she's going to listen to this one cause it's freaking boss's day. And she knows that something fun is coming out. And what we did today, Britt and I pulled the, ⁓ consultant team specifically, and we asked for one to three qualities that they see in Kiera that she brings to our team as our leader.   I thought these would be really fun for Kiera to hear, for Britt and I to talk about, and for you guys to take away as leaders, because I do think that they are, there are so many, are 20,000 words we could choose from, but it is really cool to see how a company has grown and what they're showing up and embodying now. And I wrote them all down for us, Britt, and then I've got a couple that I just want quickly you to kind of expand on for us.   There were a few that were repeated, which I thought was really, really cool. One of the ones that was repeated was integrity, doing what they say they're going to do. And that's something that within our company we have had as a piece of our core values for as long as I can remember. And I think for Kiera in general, she works really hard to do what she says she's going to. And if she, for some reason, misses that step, she definitely takes ownership of it. Another one that came up, well, it was kind of worded.   in different ways. So it's kind of, it's actually kind of cool because execution and vision came up, which I feel like Kiera is our visionary and we learned, I called her out on it and I love you Kiera. I hope you're listening. You know, I will call you out every single day. When she loses her vision, our whole company spirals. There was a point in our lives where I was like, we just need to know where you want us to go. We just need it. So having that on this list actually made me really, really, really happy.   Britt (21:51) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (22:02) And I think it'll make Kiera really proud to hear that that was one of the words that came up. But I also think that vision kind of flows in with execution because she executes on the vision, which helps, she executes on most things she puts her foot forward on, but it helps us to execute on the vision as well. But then ⁓ decisive came up and those kind of all clumped together for me in my mind. Decisive, I think Kiera is gonna get a kick out of that one as well.   that is something that she has honed a skill in on. ⁓ Accountability, empathy, confidence, passion to make a difference, inspiring, transformational and resilient. well, first off, Britt, what's your favorite leadership quality that was given to us from the team for Kiera, but just for a leader, not necessarily for Kiera.   Because we don't need to make it all about her. She's already like blushing over there, but I wanted her to hear these words But what out of out of those what do you feel like you pull out as a baby leader as a grown leader? Like what word stands out to you the most?   Britt (23:12) Yeah, I do love that decisive was on there as I know Kiera will love that one on there too. I think that's one of my favorites Tiff to your point. Right, we can't have too many cooks in the kitchen on what direction to go because it really does get wild even within your dental practice too many cooks in the kitchen gets very wild. And so that leader who can be decisive and I think it goes along with vision as well of like   The Dental A Team (23:17) Same. Yeah.   Britt (23:42) keeping the course of what direction are we going, even though that direction is moving or growing or where are we headed to, and that'll adapt over time. A good team, right? Good team members. All we wanna do is like help you and make it happen. It's kinda like, well, we just, what direction? Because I know if I start going my own direction, it's gonna get wild and I'm gonna be off track. So like what direction? And then,   give me a few words and let's go and let's make it happen. And I think that's huge. And I know that that's a tough spot to be in sometimes. Our business owners, our entrepreneurs, you guys have a lot on your shoulders and it doesn't always go recognized. And I know like it's pressure on you sometimes, but keeping, for you to keep a space where you can have that clear direction and be decisive about where we're going is a game changer.   The Dental A Team (24:39) I agree. I agree. I think execution goes along with that. And the vision plays such a huge role too, because as you were speaking, I was thinking for visionaries, for entrepreneurs, for people who start businesses, it's very difficult for them to see outside of being a visionary. Just like when you're not a visionary, when you're an implementer, which most team members are not going to be visionaries. You guys are probably on their own companies, just saying.   Britt (24:43) Thank   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (25:06) They are implementers on some level. You are the visionary, but it's very difficult to see the other side. It's like it's difficult for you to put yourself in those shoes. So the visionaries are like, no, like you want space to create because that's what they want. But they do have a very clear picture of what they want, but they don't know how to narrow it down. Right. So it's kind of this like mix and teams sometimes go a little wild. They're like, just tell me and   they get into the spin. And so I think that decisiveness, that execution narrows down to the vision. When you know the vision, when you have a clear picture of the vision, that is your go-to spot, you guys. Decisions are so much easier when you know where you're going. When the vision of your practice is super clear, those decisions, big or small, come down to, they match our vision? Does this go with our team values? Does this match our culture?   or is this completely opposite of what we're heading towards? Do we wanna add a new product to our product line? Do we wanna add a new procedure? Well, what's our vision? What's our goal? Is this in alignment with what we're working towards? Because then visionaries, you can say yes, no, maybe here's the outline, here's a template, go create. I can be very creative when I know what the direction is. So to your point, Britt, I think those all go hand in hand. I totally agree. And I think it's something that as a company,   We've pushed for and narrowed down really, really well. Our style of meetings help, and I know we work with practices all the time to get those narrowed down. We have practices coming into town soon to do just this thing. so those were so perfect. And it's something that we constantly refine. Doctors, think actionable pieces here, leaders, office managers. When I was an office manager, you guys, I told you, I'm gonna see my doc in a week. I love him. He, Debrit, I think we're like the same, like they are just   family to us.   Britt (27:04) Always a cheerleader.   The Dental A Team (27:05) Always   a two-year-later, constantly. But I had to be the one that created this stuff, right? Like for slash with him. And so office managers who are here today that are like, yeah, this sounds great guys, but like my doc's not gonna listen to this podcast or my doc's not on the same page as me. That's totally fine. Go create it. Create something so that your team can be decisive in their roles too.   when you can narrow down that vision, no matter who you are right now, whatever leadership position you hold in your company, narrow that down and make it easy for everyone, because it's going to make it easier for you too. So, Britt, this went longer than I thought it would. Thank you so much for being here. I love celebrating everyone. And Britt, you're just one of my favorite humans. And I knew you would have so much to pull out of this on leadership side.   Britt (27:54) Same Tiff, I mean, Kiera deserves all the credit in the world as someone who like, even I've been here for four years now and Kiera now is different than the Kiera back then and is only getting better and better. So thanks to her. I know she and you owners don't always get a lot of the thanks and support and you deal with a lot of things. So it's a thank you for me, one to Kiera and two to all of you out there who take on that responsibility and that.   The Dental A Team (28:23) That was beautiful, thank you. And with that, you guys, go do the things we kinda talked about here too. Go narrow in your vision and your focus. If you haven't narrowed in, go talk to your team about it. Even if you talked about it yesterday, say, hey guys, let's talk about this again. Talk about it enough that that becomes your culture and your drive within your practice. And most of all, go have an amazing Bosses Day.   I hope you are celebrated. I hope you feel loved, even if it's just this today and nobody else knows. Shelbi told us, you guys, I'm gonna let you in on a secret. Like that's how I know the date, okay? So you guys, if you're listening and you didn't get the flowers, like this is your flowers, okay? We're all here for it. We're all celebrating each other. And Kiera, like Britt said, we are so, so incredibly grateful for everything you do every single day, every way that you show up for us and the way that you grow us individually and as a team every single day.   So with that, you guys, go have a great Boss's Day. Catch you next time.  

In this episode: Anna and Elizabeth unpack one of the most common parent worries, how much kids eat. We explore how diet culture fuels fear, why restriction and pressure backfire, and how to use structure (not restriction or control) to support kids' self-regulation. We discuss:* Why social media “perfect plates” and lunchboxes fuel worry and fear* The research on restriction* Providing structure without micromanaging your child's eating* Tweens/teens still need support (even if they look independent)* When appetites fluctuate * Special considerations for ADHD meds and ARFID Links & Resources* Division of Responsibility (sDOR) — Ellyn Satter Institute * Podcast with Naureen Hunani on prioritizing felt safety in feeding. Sunny Side Up posts to support this episode* Sunny Side Up Feeding Framework* Tips for Serving Dessert with Dinner * Handling Halloween Candy: A Step-by-Step Parent Guide * A Simple Guide to Eliminate Diet Culture from Halloween Other links* Caffè Panna: the ice cream Elizabeth ordered.* Pinney Davenport Nutrition, PLLC* Lutz, Alexander & Associates Nutrition Therapy* Photo by Angela Mulligan on UnsplashShare this episode with a friend who's navigating mealtime worries.TranscriptElizabeth Davenport (00:01)Welcome back to Sunny Side Up Nutrition. Hi, Anna. Today we're going to talk about a really common worry parents bring up: What if my child eats too much or too little?Anna Lutz (00:04)Hi, Elizabeth.Right, I feel like this is a universal concern. Parents are always worrying about how much their child is eating. Sometimes they're worried they're eating too much. Sometimes they're worried they're eating too little. I feel it's never just right—thinking about Goldilocks. That's what parents do best, including myself—worry. But we all want our kids to grow up, grow well, and be healthy, of course.Elizabeth Davenport (00:31)Yeah.Anna Lutz (00:35)I think what we really want to talk about today is how diet culture sends so many confusing messages to parents and kind of fuels that worry—fuels the worry of parents—so that they focus a ton on what their child should eat, how much their child should eat, etc.Elizabeth Davenport (00:56)Yeah, exactly. And so we're going to talk about where those worries come from and why restriction and pressure to eat certain foods—more food, less food—backfire, and what parents can do instead to support their child's relationship with food. Let's jump in. Yes.Anna Lutz (01:15)That's right. I'm really excited—I'm excited about this episode because I think most parents can relate to this.Elizabeth Davenport (01:19)Me too. Yes, I mean, we both can, right?Anna Lutz (01:25)Of course—100%, 100%. And it can change day to day. It almost can be humorous—how you're worrying about one thing one day and then the next day you're worrying about the opposite. Yeah. So yeah, let's jump in. Why do parents' worries about their child eating either “too much” or “too little”—those are in quotes—usually come from?Elizabeth Davenport (01:36)Exactly.I mean, as you said in the beginning, diet culture really has such a strong influence over everything that we believe about food. And social media—I mean, it's all over social media: how much kids should be eating, what they should be eating. And it's confusing even because it's visual, and parents may see pictures of lunchboxes or plates and think, “My gosh, wait, I'm feeding my kid too much,” or “My gosh, I'm not feeding my kid enough or enough of the right foods.” And so I think one: I'll caution, right? For parents, it's so easy to compare what we're doing to what's out there. And really we have to do what we know is best, and it's impossible to fully know how much is in those pictures when people show how much they're feeding their kids.Other places that parents get these messages are from conversations with well-meaning pediatricians or other healthcare providers—also well-meaning family members, certainly grandparents. No hate—Anna Lutz (02:41)Very true.Elizabeth Davenport (02:59)—grandparents here because they can be really awesome, but they also sometimes forget what their role is, or it's unclear what their role is. Right? And yeah—just, overarching, it comes from diet culture messaging.Anna Lutz (03:07)True. True.And often it's linked—not always, but often—it's linked to the child's body size. Don't you think? So if someone—whether it's a pediatrician or family member or parent—is worried that the child is, “too big,” they're focusing on, “Well, they must eat too much.” And then conversely, if there are worries about a child being “too small,” that kind of fuels the worry of, “My gosh, my child's not eating enough.”Elizabeth Davenport (03:22)Yes.Anna Lutz (03:44)So that's where that diet culture and weight bias really can make an impact and then translate to how we feed our children.Elizabeth Davenport (03:54)Exactly.And because there's so much information available to us now, parents are just bombarded with this. Even if they're not on social media, they're bombarded with this kind of information.Anna Lutz (04:07)It's so true—it's so true. And I feel like it's important to really note that when we see those images on social media that you mentioned—or someone says, “This is how much someone should eat”—there are so many more factors. Even us as dietitians, we would never be able to tell a parent, “This is exactly how much this child should eat at this meal.”Elizabeth Davenport (04:30)Exactly.Anna Lutz (04:31)Because they're growing, their activity levels—Elizabeth Davenport (04:31)It's a great point.Anna Lutz (04:34)— are different. It depends what they ate earlier in the day; it depends what they didn't eat earlier in the day or last week. And so there's not some magic amount that if we just knew what it was—because even as pediatric dietitians, it's not something that is definable.Elizabeth Davenport (04:39)Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So this is a nice segue into why it's so hard to really trust children to self-regulate their food intake.Anna Lutz (05:05)That's such a good question because it's kind of at the heart of it. I think because diet culture has so heavily influenced parenting and our medical system—and a big role of diet culture is to evoke fear—it tells us we can't trust bodies.Elizabeth Davenport (05:29)Right.Anna Lutz (05:30)Right—we need to control bodies.And so instead of really telling parents, “You know what? Children's bodies are wise, and your job is to support them in eating and, over time, developing their eating skills,” instead we're told, “You need to make sure your child doesn't eat too much of this, and you need to make sure your child eats enough of this.” These messages to parents are: don't trust your child. And often parents aren't trusting their own bodies, so then it's a leap—Elizabeth Davenport (06:02)Exactly.Anna Lutz (06:03)—to then trust your child's body.I think a few things to highlight here—and you probably have some ideas about this too—we've got research that really backs this up. One thing that comes to mind is research showing that when parents restrict their children's eating— they might be worried their child's eating too much and they restrict——then what we actually see is increased eating and sneak eating as a result. And so it doesn't “work.” If the goal is for the child to eat less, it doesn't work for a parent to restrict their eating. What is some other—Elizabeth Davenport (06:34)Exactly.Anna Lutz (06:46)—research we should highlight?Elizabeth Davenport (06:51)Oh my gosh, that's a good question. And I'll be honest here—that is not one of my strengths, remembering the research.Anna Lutz (06:57)Well, I was thinking about how we know that pressure doesn't help either. So, the opposite: if we're worried a child isn't eating enough and we start to say, “You have to eat this much,” that does not lead to an increase in intake. So again, it's not working. And then there's this study that I know we've mentioned many times on the podcast, but we'll bring it up here: when parents—Elizabeth Davenport (07:03)Thanks.No. It does not.Anna Lutz (07:21)—restrict “highly palatable foods,” which probably was the old name for highly processed foods, then when children who were not allowed access to those foods in their home were exposed to those foods, they ate a whole lot more. Again, that kind of restriction didn't lead to self-regulation.Elizabeth Davenport (07:24)Right. Right.Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.I thought you were asking me to name a research study. I definitely cannot do that—except for maybe that one where they feed kids lunch—both kids who've been restricted and kids who haven't been restricted the highly palatable foods—and then they'reAnna Lutz (07:51)Oh, sorry—I was not putting you on the spot. Elizabeth Davenport (08:12)—sent into a room with toys and with free access to all of those foods. And yes—even when they've eaten all their lunch—those kids who are from restricted families go and eat more of those highly palatable foods than the kids who are used to having them. I mean, I've seen it in my own home. Anytime there's a kid who's been restricted those highly palatable foods, often—what I've seen—they are going to eat those foods first on a plate. Always. And that's okay. That's okay. You can tell when kids are sitting together at a tableAnna Lutz (08:54)Great. Makes sense.Right.Elizabeth Davenport (09:04)with lots of different foods that include something highly palatable—like, I don't know, Goldfish crackers or Cheez-Its—the ones who don't have them on a regular basis or feel restricted are the kids who really have a hard time self-regulating.Anna Lutz (09:17)Right, right. That's true. Elizabeth Davenport (09:29)I just got us way off the topic, I think.And I want to make sure here that we also bring up our Sunny Side Up Feeding Framework, and step three of that framework is: trust your child to eat and grow.Anna Lutz (09:44)Which is—it's so amazing that in our culture, that's such a big lift, right? So that's why we want to support parents in that. But that is so important to our children. And these kinds of examples of research that we're discussing show that when that trust is eroded, it doesn't help. When we're not trusting our children, it doesn't—Elizabeth Davenport (09:56)Exactly.Right.Exactly. And I think another thing that we see so often—and want to make sure we note—is that it's important that kids are not fed based on their body size.Anna Lutz (10:22)That's a huge one. Let that sink in. I think that's a huge one. And this piece of research people might be surprised about: there's research that really shows that children in larger bodies—larger children—do not necessarily eat more than children that are smaller. I mean, if we really think about that fact, then trying to make larger children eat less makes no sense.Elizabeth Davenport (10:57)No, and it's sad. It makes me sad to think about it. And this is one of the pitfalls, right, that parents fall into: they're under so much pressure and feel so much like it is their job—Anna Lutz (11:02)Yeah, yeah.Right.Elizabeth Davenport (11:15)—to control what and how much their kids eat. Then also, you know, that translates into controlling the child's weight.Anna Lutz (11:23)Yep, 100%. What do you think are some other pitfalls that parents try when they're worried about how much their child eats, and how do they backfire?Elizabeth Davenport (11:26)Well, there are quite a few ways, but we talked a little bit about it just a second ago with restriction. Really limiting certain foods—or limiting seconds—also is a big one. If a child is in a larger body, parents will tend to feel like they can't allow their child to have seconds because they feel like they can't trust that they're not eating more than they need.Anna Lutz (11:44)Right. Yep.Elizabeth Davenport (12:02)And the reality is some kids just love to eat. They're more enthusiastic, or they're hungrier, or they have been restricted and aren't sure how much they're going to get the next time they eat—and so they are over-focused on the food.I think another pitfall is pressuring kids to finish everything or to take another bite—trying to reward them to finish their food—and also saying, “Look, your sister ate all of her food—what a great job she did,” and that really backfires. It makes kids feel bad; it pits them against each other; and what we know is that it—Anna Lutz (12:40)Right.Elizabeth Davenport (12:49)—maybe will help once in a while, but long term it doesn't help a kid trust themselves, learn the foods that they like and don't like, and learn to trust their internal cues. Yeah. And I always feel like I have to say: we're not criticizing parents at all here. This is— Parents are under so much—so much pressure, as we said in the beginning and as we always say—to feed in some perfect way. And it's just not possible. No, it doesn't.And then there's another pitfall: you're worried that your child isn't eating enough, and so parents fall into this really—what we call—permissive feeding.Anna Lutz (13:20)Right.And it exists. Yeah.Elizabeth Davenport (13:38)Some examples might be allowing your child to graze in between meals—like carrying around a snack cup.Anna Lutz (13:50)Right, right, right. The kind you stick your hand in, but they don't spill. Yeah.Elizabeth Davenport (14:04)Exactly. Or allowing them to carry around a sippy cup of milk or juice; or only serving their prepared foods—or sorry, only serving the foods that they like to eat—Anna Lutz (14:11)Right—right, absolutely.Elizabeth Davenport (14:14)—because you're really worried. And that also backfires because, one, kids are going to—most kids are going to—get bored of eating the same things over and over again, and then they're not going to eat more. Some kids don't, and that's a different conversation. But yeah.Anna Lutz (14:28)Right, I think those are all important examples of where that worry can start to erode the feeding relationship and how we approach food as parents. I think about when we're working with parents in our practices and there might be worry that a child is accelerating quicker than expected on their weight growth curve, or they're decelerating —not gaining weight fast enough—often the recommendation is the exact same, which is: do not allow grazing; don't short-order cook; provide structure. It's the same regardless of what might be going on, which I always find interesting.Elizabeth Davenport (15:15)Yeah—that's—yeah, and that's a very important point also.Anna Lutz (15:21)Yep. Elizabeth Davenport (15:23)I think this leads us into creating structure, right? And we talk about this a lot, and we want to be clear here that it's possible to create structure without restricting your child's intake. So let's talk a little bit about why structure with meals and snacks is so important, and how it can help in this situation when parents are worrying about how much or how little their child might be eating.Anna Lutz (15:57)Great. Well, I think you and I really like to talk about feeding as a developmental task that we—as parents—are supporting our child in learning. Structure helps the child know that they're supported.Something we really think about is children having that “felt safety.” When Noreen Hunami was on our podcast, she mentioned felt safety. It's a term that was first used by Dr. Purvis. It's when parents make sure a child's environment elicits a true sense of safety—the child feels safety truly in their body. So a child can be safe, but may not feel safe. And so that structure tells the child - “I know my mom's going to feed me. I know my mom's going to feed me meals—the food that I need—in a predictable way.” Even though we don't have to say that to our children, if it just happens, it can help evoke that felt safety for a child. For some kids, that might be a little bit more structure—they need that to feel more safe.Elizabeth Davenport (17:03)Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Anna Lutz (17:06)For some kids, it might be a little bit less structure—and that's where responsive feeding comes in. We can keep talking about that. But that's a big reason why structure is helpful. What popped into my mind is: so often in our practices, you and I see kids that may have been given the jobs of food a little too early—when they were too young. And for those children, it may have made them feel not so safe. They might not have been able to say, “Hey, I need some more structure with my food,”Elizabeth Davenport (17:18)Yeah. Okay.Anna Lutz (17:37)—but that's when we might see some concerns about their eating. And then, when the parents step in and are like, “I've got your food,” their eating might improve.Elizabeth Davenport (17:48)Right. I'm thinking now about the permissive feeding, and this is one where parents sometimes are so worried about their kids eating that they will say, “Do you want this, this, this, or—” which can be overwhelming for the child—or they want the child to decide. When in actuality, that's the parent's job. And that's where you can bring some of that structure back in. If you're giving your child a bunch of choices, practice either giving them two choices or just saying, “This is what we're having,” and not feeding them foods that you know are going to be problematic for them. That's not what I mean—I'm not serving them liver and onions.Anna Lutz (18:31)Right.Unless that is what your family has. Okay—okay, that makes sense for you to say that. Yeah, but I think what you're saying is: if someone's listening and they're like, “What do they mean by structure?” What we're talking about is the parents—Ellyn Satter's Division of Responsibility is a good place to start—Elizabeth Davenport (18:38)My mom used to make liver and onions. I did not like it.Okay, yeah.Anna Lutz (18:59)—the parents deciding when and what is served so that the child has regular, predictable meals and they're not having to make these kind of adult decisions of what to have at the meal.Elizabeth Davenport (19:13)Exactly. And I think, you know, I'm thinking about young kids, but it's important to make the point that this also applies to older kids. I see this so often—sorry.And if you listen to us on a regular basis, you know we talk about all of these things and these themes are woven through all of our podcast episodes. But it's also important for tweens and teens: they're often given these jobs before they're ready. They look like adults. They sound like adults sometimes. And so we think they can take on the task of—Anna Lutz (19:36)Right.Elizabeth Davenport (19:53)—making all the decisions about what they're eating and when to eat. And they often will need parents to come back in and give them some structure around that again. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there are some other examples of structure we could give that might—Anna Lutz (20:05)Well, something that came to mind was thinking about teenagers, where there might be times we're not preparing the food and handing it to them, but we're providing structure with asking questions and acknowledging. Just this morning, I was driving a child to school and I said, “Do you have your lunch? Do you have your pre-workout snack—or pre-athletic team snack?” Right? Those were packed the night before.Anna Lutz (20:42)But there's something in the structure of just saying, “This is important. I'm going to make sure you have it because it's so important for your day.” If a child's going out with friends, you might say, “Hey, what are your plans for dinner?” You're providing that structure in a reminder way. Yeah.Elizabeth Davenport (20:57)Exactly, exactly. I mean, I have to admit I'm doing a little bit of that with my college students—saying, instead of “Make sure to eat your fruits and vegetables,” I'm asking, “Are you finding any that you really like? Any that you don't like? What's available?” That kind of thing. Because part of me is worried, right? At least my youngest, who doesn't have an apartment to cook in—Anna Lutz (21:08)Great.Right.Elizabeth Davenport (21:28)—an apartment kitchen—is maybe not—right? So that's also a way to say it's totally natural to worry. And it's also totally okay to still be providing some structure—very lightly—even when they're older.Anna Lutz (21:31)Right. So that reminder—Yeah.That's right. And that's where you're slowly taking down the scaffolding as they get older and older and older. That's exactly right.Elizabeth Davenport (21:52)And every child has different needs.Anna Lutz (21:57)That's important—and personality. That's right.Elizabeth Davenport (21:59)And their needs can change. Needs can—right? There can be times where they don't need much structure, but certainly during a transition—the start of school, the start of a new after-school activity—Anna Lutz (22:13)Right.Yep. 100%.Elizabeth Davenport (22:16)—those can all be times where they might need a little more structure. All right. So what else do we need to chat about?Anna Lutz (22:19)Yep, exactly, exactly.Yeah, so I was thinking: let's talk a little bit about children's appetites since we're talking about parents worrying about how much a child eats. Are they eating too much? Are they eating too little? Let's talk a little bit about how much children's appetite—or their hunger and fullness—changes day to day.Elizabeth Davenport (22:33)Yeah.Oh my gosh. I mean, if we think about our own hunger and fullness as adults, right—it changes day to day.Anna Lutz (22:49)Right.Absolutely.Elizabeth Davenport (22:55)So if you're a parent and you're having a hard time with, “My gosh, my child is not eating three meals and two to three snacks a day—what is happening?” you might ask yourself—think about your own eating. I think it's important to say that it's completely normal, for lack of a better word for kids to eat more at some times and what we might think of as “too little” or “too much” at other times. They might be tired, so they might not eat as much. Certainly with little kids—toddlers, preschoolers—they're tired by the end of the day. They are just not going to eat much dinner, most likely. They're going to eat more when they come home from daycare or preschool—if that's what they're in—than they will at dinner.I also think of kindergartners. If you think of a kid who was in a half-day preschool and then they start kindergarten, they are probably going to be starving when they get home at the end of the day and just exhausted. They might not even make it to dinner. They might need to go to bed - when they're first starting kindergarten—before dinner. So there just might be something going on. I mean, we could have a whole episode on reasons that people eat different amounts. So I think the overarching message is to trust—going back to that—Anna Lutz (24:09)Right, right.Elizabeth Davenport (24:29)—step three in the feeding framework: really trust your children to eat and grow. And that can help parents feel like, “Okay, I don't have to try to control the exact amounts that my child is taking in.”Anna Lutz (24:46)That's right. That's right. It really goes back to that trust, which is hard, because every part of our culture is trying to pull us away from trusting our children on that. But if you can go back to—if a child eats a ton at a meal, they're probably really hungry and they—Elizabeth Davenport (24:54)Exactly.—really hungry! Or they love the food. Or both. Yeah.Exactly. Exactly.Yeah. It's very hard. It is very hard. And, you know, if you do find yourself worrying, “My gosh, is my kid eating too much or too little?” you can ask yourself: where is that coming from for you? I kind of jumped ahead here, but one of the things we wanted to ask is: what is one small step that parents can take today that can help them trust their children with food?Anna Lutz (25:48)One thing I think about is: if you feel like you could do more with just regular, predictable meals and snacks, say, “Okay, I'm going to really work on making sure I'm feeding my child breakfast and a morning snack and a lunch”—depending on the age of the child and a lot of other things—“in a very predictable way.”Elizabeth Davenport (26:08)Right, right.Anna Lutz (26:10)And I'm going to really—when I do that—try to take a deep breath and let my child decide how much they're going to eat at each time. That's one.Elizabeth Davenport (26:17)And what they're going to eat of what you serve.Anna Lutz (26:20)That's right.Another step you could take is to just really notice—notice when you start to get worried about your child eating too much or too little—and see if you can take a deep breath and be like, “Whoop, there I go again.” And not say anything, not do anything—just start to notice when that worry starts to bubble up.Elizabeth Davenport (26:25)Right.That's always my favorite recommendation to start with: really noticing what's happening—stepping back and noticing how you feel, noticing the thoughts that go through your head.Another action I was thinking of—and this goes back to us talking about how much feeding advice is out there, just so, so much—if you find yourself (and that includes our social media, right?) following some social media accounts that are making you feel stress and making you question—Anna Lutz (27:09)Right.Elizabeth Davenport (27:17)—that you feel is eroding your trust, or not helping build your trust in your child's ability to eat and grow—then unfollow that account. And just take a break and notice what comes up for you after you take that break—or while you're taking that break.Anna Lutz (27:27)Yep, absolutely.Yep. That's a great one.I love that. I love that.So, we've been talking a lot about parents worrying about how much their children eat and really focusing on trusting your child. I feel like we'd be remiss not to bring up when children are on ADHD medications or maybe they've been diagnosed with ARFID, which is an eating disorder—it stands for avoidant restrictive food intake disorder.Elizabeth Davenport (27:44)Mm-hmm.Yeah.Anna Lutz (28:03)When there are these conditions going on, for the parents out there who are saying, “Wait a minute, I'm worried my child doesn't eat enough—they're on ADHD medications and they never get hungry.” How can we talk a little bit to those parents? What can they keep in mind?Elizabeth Davenport (28:18)Right, right.Certainly with ADHD medication—those often do interfere with the child's appetite. And that's a situation where your child's not going to feel hungry, and some of that structure is going to be reminding them, “Okay, it's time to eat,” and eat—even though you don't feel hungry—because when the medication wears off, kids can feel overly hungry and almost out of control at times. So that's one.And then I think—it's such a complex situation. I'm trying to think of a specific example, but the situations are so different. The bottom line is: this is a situation where a kid is really not able to tolerate the foods, and so really working on initially allowing your child to eat the foods that they feel safe eating. And yes, I know that sounds like us contradicting what we said earlier, but this is a different situation.Anna Lutz (29:17)That's right.And that's when our hope is that you're getting very personalized, individualized support. So the advice we're giving here may not be for someone with an eating disorder—or it may need to be adapted for someone with an eating disorder—and then when medications come into play, too.These might be examples—tell me if you think this is too much to say—of where we can't unfortunately trust our child's hunger and fullness as much as we hope that one day we can, right? Or as much as we're saying, “Okay, just trust your child's body.” These might be situations where other things are going on, and so let's get a little bit more support in place so that your child is getting the food they need.Elizabeth Davenport (29:31)Yes.Exactly.Elizabeth Davenport (30:05)Right. Right. Yeah, at some point we can do a whole episode on ARFID.Anna Lutz (30:09)That would be great. We should probably do—Elizabeth Davenport (30:16)Would be. But I think—just a few reminders as we wrap up here. It is completely normal to worry about your child's eating. We all do it. Yes, I do too. I do too. And the strategies to try to control how much or how little they're eating—or what they're eating—backfire. Really, part of the structure is stepping back a little bit and trusting that they are going to—Anna Lutz (30:42)All right.Elizabeth Davenport (31:08)—continue to develop their eating skills. And remember that when you're worrying about how much or how little they're eating, how much kids eat varies—from meal to snack, day to day, week to week, month to month. It's going to change all the time. It's one thing if it's decreasing all the time and they're taking foods out—and that's for another episode, right? But—We'll be sure to link to relevant podcasts that we've done in the past and blog posts in the show notes. And if you'd like to join our membership, Take the Frenzy Out of Feeding, for a deeper dive into raising kids with a healthy relationship with food, we'd love for you to join us. You can find the link in the show notes, or on our website under the Courses tab. So—Anna Lutz (31:24)Yeah.That's right.Elizabeth Davenport (31:31)We didn't come up with what we wanted to end with. We usually end with a question or a—what's your favorite food? My favorite food right now is ice cream. I ordered—what's that?Anna Lutz (31:39)Yum. Is there a certain flavor you've been enjoying?Elizabeth Davenport (31:44)I mean, I'll tell you a certain— I got myself a gift and ordered ice cream from a shop in New York City. I've wanted to try their ice cream since they opened. Anytime we've been there, I just haven't been able to get there. So I thought, “Wait a minute, I can have it shipped to me.” I mean, it was not cheap, but I love ice cream, and it was such a—I've really loved having it around. I've loved it. Yeah. It's called Cafe Pana if you live in New York—Anna Lutz (31:51)Wow.Neat. That's so neat.What is it called again? Neat. Tell me the name of it again.Elizabeth Davenport (32:12)—or you're visiting New York. It's really—I mean, it's the real deal. What's that?Cafe Pana. Yep, yep. So, how about you?Anna Lutz (32:21)Very cool. That sounds awesome.I've been enjoying—I was just having some before we recorded—the truffle almonds from Trader Joe's.Elizabeth Davenport (32:32)I don't think I've ever had those. I need to get some and try them.Anna Lutz (32:33)And they are so much better than the ones you get at Whole Foods. And they're like half the price, but they're just perfect. Highly recommend.Elizabeth Davenport (32:39)Okay.Nice.Okay. All right. Ice cream and truffle almonds. Yeah. Yeah. All right—until next time. Bye.Anna Lutz (32:48)There you go.See you next time. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit snutrition.substack.com

Media Markus runs the isolation play as he discuss Browns vs Bengals on Thursday Night Football. He also has a best bet for the game. MM also looks ahead at some Sunday lines and likes the Jets this week. Lets find out why.

FAN MAIL--We would love YOUR feedback--Send us a Text MessageA nation does not tumble into crisis overnight; it drifts, argues, hardens—and then stumbles. We open the pages of David Potter's A House Dividing to read the 1850s not as distant history but as a mirror for today's tensions. From the Compromise of 1850 to the Fugitive Slave Act, Potter shows how moral shocks can force ordinary citizens into a confrontation with their own values. That's the thread we follow into 2025: when people feel conscripted into rules they reject, politics polarizes fast and rhetoric outruns prudence.We walk through the essential parallels without forcing false equivalence. Sectionalism then was geographic; now it's cultural, algorithmic, and mapped onto coasts and heartland. We examine federal flashpoints around immigration enforcement, debates over identity and sports, and the way governors, agencies, and local movements collide at the edge of the law. The question beneath the noise is Potter's: how should a free people rank their values—freedom, union, morality, patriotism—when they pull in different directions? Most of us don't want to sacrifice any of them, but refusing to choose is itself a choice that leaves events to choose for us.Across the episode, we argue for two guardrails: hold the line on lawful order and refuse the language that turns neighbors into enemies. History warns that once rhetoric dehumanizes opponents, escalation can move faster than leaders can steer. We sketch the stakes, outline the risks of a “cold” conflict warming, and preview a series on how past “fire-eaters” used speech to accelerate crisis—and how we can avoid replaying that script.If this conversation sharpened your thinking, share it with a friend, subscribe for the next part of the series, and leave a quick review so more thoughtful listeners can find us. Your voice helps keep the debate human—and the union strong.Key Points from the Episode:• why Potter's A House Dividing still matters• the Compromise of 1850 and the Fugitive Slave Act as moral shock• parallels between 1850s fracture and 2025 cultural standoffs• modern sectionalism on coasts vs heartland• federal authority, state resistance, and flashpoints at ICE buildings• ranking values: freedom, union, morality, patriotism• immigration and identity as galvanizing issues• cooling rhetoric while enforcing law• preview of a series on rhetoric and escalationOther resources: MM#138--The Impending CrisisWant to leave a review? Click here, and if we earned a five-star review from you **high five and knuckle bumps**, we appreciate it greatly!

Allen and Joel speak with SkySpec's Chief Revenue Officer, Josh Goryl, at the SkySpecs Customer Forum. With record attendance, the forum emphasized industry collaboration, data amalgamation, and the application of AI for optimizing wind and solar renewable energy assets. SkySpecs announced their expansion into the solar industry, leveraging their established wind solutions to streamline data management and operational strategies across renewable energy sectors. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Allen Hall: [00:00:00] I'm Alan Hall, host of the Uptime Winner Energy podcast, and I'm here with Joel Saxon and Josh Gar, chief Revenue Officer with Sky Spec, and Josh brought us out this week to participate in the Skys Pick Customer Forum 2025, which as it turns out, has been the largest attendance this year. Joel Saxum: Yeah,  Allen Hall: it's grown every single year. Yeah. It's a room full of people, all experts in blades all here to learn about the next generation of skys specs, blades and  Joel Saxum: CMS predict CMS predict analysis and that's why it's growing so much. Right. How, what kind of percentage of the capacity in the states do you think is represented here? Allen Hall: We, we should have ran the number, I should have came prepared for this, but, um, I mean, I would say. 75%. Yeah. 80%. Okay. Yeah, that's, you're talking all the, all the big operators are, are here. Yep. I think, uh, 21 total organizations represented over 40 experts, blades, drivetrain, few senior management as well, and asset management [00:01:00] engineering. So it's an awesome, awesome group. We keep, uh, ev It's tough though. Every year we have to step it up a bit, so we're kind of, I think we're outgrowing the space that we're at here and excited for. Yeah, we're bursting at the seams. Uh, last year Joel and I were invited to come and it's the first time that we had been here and I thought, wow, this is a pretty full room. And this year, like, okay, she's back. We're we're, we are sitting next to the door right now because everybody is trying to learn what Sky Specs offers, what. Power do I have on my desktop right now, but also what is coming and there's a lot of new product releases happening that were announced just this morning. Yeah, and I think the cool thing too, that's it's not often you're able to get this many experts from operators together in one room, and even more so ones that cut across drive, train, CMS, all main components and. It can be tough to kind of keep everyone engaged 'cause everyone's a domain expert in different, different areas. But the conversations have been been incredible and I think even within [00:02:00] organizations as, as, as well. And so we're trying to learn how do we help our customers come together more and, and collaborate across. And even just having these discussions that want to discuss pulled out of is fantastic. Just some of that collaboration between even people that are, that are at the same company, they don't see each other as much. Joel Saxum: There, there's some cultural things playing out here that are funny to me because if you're in wind and you've bounced around, if you're an ISP or you're at an operator, you know, some of the players and kind of how they act, how they keep their, their, their poker hands close to their chest and stuff. So you see some people sitting at a table and you see, and I noticed this yesterday, like the psychological look of things sails, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm kind of looking at people listening and stuff and, and the,

Jagged Jungle 19 with Jayli Welcome to Jagged Jungle 19, a jewel of an episode carved from tribal roots, melodic highs, and global club grooves. This edition features a Tropical Transition courtesy of Calvin Harris, a spotlight on rising New Wave artist MÖM, and a sonic passport stop on our Melodic Map with Leandro Da Silva, the Italo-Brazilian producer channeling Florence's Bamboo Lounge heat.

Tu bloques sur ce que tu pourrais bien raconter sur LinkedIn ? Tu ne te sens pas (encore) expert·e ? Je comprends. Dans cette Minute Marine, je reviens sur une discussion avec Emmanuelle, une consultante qui s'est longtemps tue pour cette raison… avant de se débloquer complètement. On y parle de comment développer sa boîte, même quand on ne se sent pas encore expert·e, et de quelle posture adopter pour communiquer de façon convaincante : explorateur·ice, chercheur·se, ou curateur·ice ? Et toi ? Tu te sens dans quelle posture aujourd'hui ? (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

Kiera and Trish apply their dentistry expertise for another practice autopsy! This episode looks at a legacy practice that was experiencing stagnation in production because of numerous challenges. Kiera and Trish walk through what exactly was changed to allow this practice to hit its production goals for the first time in over a year. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera and today is such a fun day. I have one of our incredible consultants, Trish, on the podcast with me. Her nickname in Dental A Team is, go ahead Trish, say it. And explain what to da means Trish, because it's my favorite nickname of any, like it's one of the best we've come up with.   DAT Trish Ackerman (00:11) Ta-da!   Well, it definitely got sticky, that's for sure. so TADA stands for Trish Ackerman Dental A Team Ambassador, because I love referring anybody I can to us. That's either a client or somebody to come and work with us. I love this company and I want everybody that I love to come and work here too. I want clients to join, so yeah, I'll take it.   The Dental A Team (00:27) you   Trish, like it is one of the like biggest compliments that you you have referred people to our company. You have brought tons of people to us. Like you are a walking little dental A team advertisement. And to me as a boss, as an owner of a company, like that is music to my ears. But like, didn't you just take that name on for another name in your life? Like this is this is sticking. So tell.   DAT Trish Ackerman (01:02) I did, I did. It got   that sticky. So I'm going to be a grandma very soon, which just sounds awfully strange to say out loud. But we had my original grandma name all picked out, which was going to be Cha Cha. But when I heard Ta Da, I'm like, that, that is really classic. That's going to stay. And my daughter and family, they're like,   The Dental A Team (01:26) Yeah   DAT Trish Ackerman (01:29) okay, we might have to grow into that a little bit. I'm like, well, get ready to grow anyway, because it's staying.   The Dental A Team (01:34) Well, our marketing team has already been working on some pretty fancy swag for you Trish, because TADA, if you don't know Trish yet, you're gonna get to know her. If you haven't heard her as much, Trish is one of the most funny, like she, I feel like you're just confetti in a human form. Like you literally just like burst confetti everywhere you go. You make people laugh. Like you have made me almost spit water of laughing so hard on calls together. You're just a good time. And so,   If you haven't gotten to work with Trish or you haven't got to meet her yet, welcome. She's one of my absolute faves. So excited that you're on our team and that you are the to da of the company. ⁓ but today I wanted Trish to come on because I love a good office autopsy and Trish has been consulting some clients, rocking them out, having some really incredible massive wins. And so we thought, let's like, let's go behind the scenes. Let's see what that to da consultant over there has been doing in her spare time, consulting some awesome offices.   And with that said, whenever we do an office autopsy, what we do these for is to help you see yourself in other practices fabric. I think a lot of times people think dentistry is lonely and isolated and it does not need to be. So what we're gonna do today, we do mashup practices. So if you think this is you, there might be parts of you, it might be parts of another practice. We try to do that to keep practice confidentiality. But really I also hope when you are a practice that's being highlighted in an office autopsy, just know that you get highlighted because...   We're freaking proud of you as the owner too. These things can't get done without owners executing and implementing. And while yes, we as consultants are really good at what we do, we truly are magicians. We're able to grow into ways that you couldn't even imagine, but we can't do that if you don't execute. So Trish, take it away. Let's kind of talk this office. Where were they when they like joined Dental A Team? Then I always love to say like, where are they now? Like how long did it take us? And then we'll get into the how of how did you do it? What were some of the things you implemented? So take it away Trish.   Where was this practice when they joined us and now where are they at ⁓ a couple of few short months later?   DAT Trish Ackerman (03:30) When this practice came to us, this was a really, really special situation because this is a legacy practice. And it was originally owned by grandpa and then the current owner's father. So this is now the third generation of a dental practice. And when this practice came on with us, they were doing many, many, things right.   but there was no traction taking place and they were very stuck. They were very stagnant and the current owner, this is a really big deal. know, this was again, because of the legacy that it's holding and he was struggling. He was struggling financially. He really was. There wasn't a lot of, there wasn't a lot of knowledge. He didn't have a lot of knowledge around like the current overhead, what it should be.   And things were feeling, he was feeling a pretty big pinch. And I had to give him so much credit. I think it takes a lot of courage to reach out to get the help. you know, it's like, practices don't typically reach out to us because everything is going so great. It's usually when they're starting to feel something's not right, something's uncomfortable. And he did just that. And they had an extremely congested schedule.   The Dental A Team (04:46) Mm-hmm.   DAT Trish Ackerman (04:57) They have a large patient base, as you can imagine, because many are still, you know, that were patients of his father. So what was happening is because of the congestion, they weren't able to see new patients right away. was like a six week wait for that. There were several patients in the hygiene that were still active that weren't able to get in. And then again, there was just kind of like a bunch of stuff on the schedule, just stuff. So they were working really hard.   And what I did is I really walked through the specifics of his patient base to show him you actually have way more patients than you do available hours, which is why you're stuck here. And how do we do this? Well, we were also a little restricted on that because this is a five op practice. So we had an op for each doctor, an overflow, and then the two hygienists.   But what we did is we got creative because we knew we had to add hygiene. That was a must. And we also had to allow more openings much sooner for the new patients because what was happening when I pointed out that he was basically giving his new patients away to his competitors because they were waiting so long that really got his attention. we ended up, the first thing that we did is added a hygienist.   The Dental A Team (05:57) Mm-hmm.   Absolutely.   DAT Trish Ackerman (06:20) which now brought those two doctors down to one op each. And that really scared them because we were handcuffed. It was like we were handcuffed in every direction, but we got very creative and we designed very strategic doctor schedule blocks so that they know when there's gonna be production.   and they know when they can make the time for like the sand and the water appointments, post-ops and things like that. But the staggering of the schedules made a huge difference. The practice was also only open Monday through Thursday. So we changed it to Monday through Friday. So on Mondays and Fridays, those doctors do have their two ops again. So that has worked well. When we implemented that design, we also implemented some patient filtering.   so that they could get in the new patients, not emergencies, but they could get in the new patients with significant needs right away and also not take the risk of giving those away to a competitor. If they have significant dental needs, get them in right now. And we took away the focus of like, they have the protocol, a lot of doctors like for those new patients to go through hygiene first and that's a great structure. It's a great structure for patients without   The Dental A Team (07:21) Mm-hmm.   Thank   DAT Trish Ackerman (07:41) significant dental needs. So that all of a sudden opened up the door to where both of the doctors were getting very comprehensive new patients on their schedule right away that needed significant amount of dental work. Then they could eventually get into the hygiene department. With that, when we designed that, within six weeks, this practice had hit their production goal.   The Dental A Team (07:43) Right.   DAT Trish Ackerman (08:10) for the first time in over a year. The team was starting to get very numb to goals. They weren't even looking at the numbers anymore. The numbers weren't mattering to them. And then all of a sudden there was this light coming at the end of the tunnel where they hit the goal. Then they hit it again and they've hit it again. He has not hit goal in the last four months. And the trend that they're on,   The Dental A Team (08:12) Wow.   Wow.   DAT Trish Ackerman (08:37) Well, running parallel with getting the new patients with the significant needs and such. What I also did is ensure that both him and his associate were really polished on presenting treatment. ⁓ They had intraoral cameras that were collecting dust like a treadmill in a living room that a lot of people have seen happen or hanging clothes on. They got those dusted off. They use them on every single patient. There's a way to use photography.   The Dental A Team (08:49) Mm-hmm.   you   DAT Trish Ackerman (09:05) And there's a way to use photography. And this doctor, anything I encouraged him to try, anything, he did it. There was zero pushback on any of the recommendations. I've seen, I know how this works. I know what doesn't work. And when these doctors, like this practice, when I broke it down, like here's how you use photography and here's how you share it with the patient, it just continued to skyrocket.   The Dental A Team (09:07) Absolutely.   DAT Trish Ackerman (09:35) The whole team was on board with him. Then we got the associate, the associate dentist on board and we are now getting ready to, he's getting ready to start construction. We're doing a build out. We're adding ops.   The Dental A Team (09:49) Nice.   Wow. And how long has this been? So you started with this practice, they're not hitting goal, they're not doing the things that they wanted to do at legacy practice to now hitting goal four months in a row. How long has this client been with you? Since April. So right now we're recording, that's about five months that this client's been with Trish. And to hear that.   DAT Trish Ackerman (10:05) This is April.   The Dental A Team (10:13) ⁓ what I think is magic one Trish shout out to you, think beautiful job as a consultant, because when we go into an office, there's literally thousands of levers that we could go after. And I think something that consultants have to really do in something I'm very sticky on any consultant who works with us and Trish kudos to you. Is finding the one lever that's going to move the practice forward the most, the quickest, the fastest for fastest ROI that's going to get there because Trish, could have gotten in and implemented, you know,   X, Y, or Z, and they would not see the results. you saw, I mean, you got tight, you got tight space. And I think also having a consultant that comes to the table that's willing to think outside the box. I mean, you got five operatories, two doctors, that's squishy. That's a squishy. And for you to realize they're not maximizing all the days that they could be. And to do it in a way to help both doctors. I also know that you have maybe played a little competition game.   because you realize and you find out that when doctors are a little competitive, it works for some, doesn't work for others. But then they start to watch to see, if this doctor can do it, I think I can do it. And it's not doing anything unethical. It's truly making sure that they're looking for opportunities, using intra-orals, like stuff that was already there. And I think this is what I love about being consultants are we see the entire treasure map. We see all the different things we could do. And we're like, all right.   This is going to be a fun game. And Trish, this is why I think you're Tadda. You're the confetti, like in a human form. You look at this and say, how can I make this fun? How can I get these people bought into it? And then we go for the harder pieces, but you, you dug gold. found the intro oral cameras and you taught them a few things. You figured out how to change the scheduling. And what I hope people hear is Trish that in about three, four moves very quickly and they're hitting goal. So when you're sitting here stuck at the ceiling and thinking, Oh my gosh, there's no way to get there. I just want to help you see that.   The answer is probably much closer than you think it is. You just are buried and you can't see it you need somebody outside who's not sitting in it that can guide you. like, shout out to this doctor, these offices, they take your lead. I feel like it's like, if you're gonna hire an expert who's been there, done that, done that successfully, Trish, I'd like to highlight, tell me how many team members before you came to Dental A Team, how many team members were you overseeing?   DAT Trish Ackerman (12:30) In my past, oh gosh. think at the max at the end, was close to 160.   The Dental A Team (12:31) Yes.   160 and how many practices were you overseeing at that time? All right, so you have a consultant who has worked with 16 practices, 160 employees overseeing them. Do you think she knows a thing or two of how to help a five-op practice with two doctors and a smaller team turn a few levers very quickly to get them up to where they need to go? The answer is absolutely yes. And I think Trish, that's the magic, that's the beauty that you were able to do so quickly, so thoroughly, and just something real fun.   DAT Trish Ackerman (12:43) 16.   The Dental A Team (13:09) I know like we, this is a quick podcast. I asked you to come in between client calls. So I know there's so much more magic I just want to share with everybody. But as we wrap up, cause I do know like you guys, they're consultants, they podcast in between coaching calls. They're here to deliver to clients and to also share with you. But any last thoughts you want to add as I know we wrap up so you can get on your way to another client, help them get their magic. Any last thoughts you have of this very quick office autopsy that you think people should recognize, maybe they're in the same boat as well.   DAT Trish Ackerman (13:38) Getting uncomfortable. Getting uncomfortable is going to be very important and it's okay. This doctor got uncomfortable. During the implementations that we were making, there was a team member that was not on the bus ⁓ and that was also holding the practice back a little bit. When we go in to make these types of changes, it's like, it's the unknown.   I do certain things a certain way every day the same and I understand how it feels when you're asked to do it differently. But when I first go in, that's the first thing that I will kind of announce and ask. Are you going to be okay getting uncomfortable with me? Because I promise, I promise I'm here. I'm here. I'm in your corner. And my job is to not watch people fall. My job is to watch them rise.   And I use the six pack analogy. We all want the six pack of abs. And it's going to require a lot of sit ups. And our abs can get a little bit sore, but the outcome is just really, really magical. And so once they make the commitment, like, OK, yeah, I'm ready. Let's get uncomfortable. That's when it really takes off.   The Dental A Team (14:55) That's incredible. And I think Trish, like you said, we can give you all the tactics. We can help you with all the how, but you've got to be showing up as a practice. So if you're not ready to get uncomfortable, it's not the time for you to do consulting. But I would say, like you said, most people call for consulting when they're much further down the path of hardship than they should. So if you're kind of like, all right, I know I could do some help. I know I could make some changes. Now's the time. But you also have to be willing to be uncomfortable. So Trish.   DAT Trish Ackerman (14:57) video.   The Dental A Team (15:22) I know you've got to run. I appreciate you so much being on the podcast. I think you just bring so much magic. You're so welcome. And for all of you listening, if you can see yourself maybe in this story that we shared, I know it was a very small snippet today, but there's so many things that we do, but I hope you can see in just a couple of months, this practice's life was changed, utterly changed. This doctor is having more fun. They're more excited. They're dreaming again. They're living their best life. They're loving it. The team's excited. The team's re-engaged. So if you're maybe in that like, gosh, we're kind of like losing momentum.   DAT Trish Ackerman (15:25) Thank you, Chair.   The Dental A Team (15:52) Reach out, we'd love to help you. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com or head on over to our website, TheDentalATeam.com. Book a call. We're here, we'll do like a totally complimentary practice assessment. Look to see where you are. Look to see some of the gaps. No pressure, just massive momentum for you. If we're a great fit, awesome. Otherwise we're gonna send you on your way with a lot of great tips. You're gonna have a lot of fun. And hey, you might even get to dodge your consultants. So reach out. Trish, love having you. Go have the best day. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team podcast.

Send us a textIn the Season 4 Finale, the team investigates the weak link in the Hermetic Brotherhood of the Cardinal Court and search for answers that may help deal with the cult and their leader, Brother Magus. What mysteries await in the abandoned cabin in the woods and what new threats will the MM team face?Content Warning: cults, cancer, death, blood magic, sacrifice, visions, otherworldly creatures, weapons, firearms, murder, cursed objects, suicide, fireHost: Chris EstesWriter: Chris EstesSenior Investigator: Lucas KnightSenior Investigator: Tom WilsonSenior Investigator: Mark MercierSenior Investigator: Megan MeadowsSound Design: Chris EstesSupport the showFollow us on social media:Instagram: MalevolentMaineFacebook: MalevolentMaineTwitter: @MalevolentMainePatreon: Join the Malevolent MobDon't forget to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts by scrolling down to the bottom our or show page and tapping "Write a Review".

Expert consultants Tiff and Kristy give listeners a look inside their head when it comes to scheduling the most efficient and optimized way possible — and in a way that won't feel overwhelming. Their advice, which includes the right verbiage and what to do when schedules change last minute, will start all team members with their best foot forward for various tasks throughout the work week. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back today. I have Miss Kristy with me. I stole her for the afternoon. If you listen to the job description, I don't know what they're gonna call it, but we talked about optimizing your job description basically and metrics. And if you listen to that one, you know Kristy is like my calm in the storm.   and ending my day with her today, I was like, there's no better way to end a Monday. So if you have the opportunity to work with Kristy one-on-one, she is your consultant, you guys. I envy you. You get more time with her every month than I do. Truly, I envy you. And you also know exactly what I'm talking about, Kristy. Your calm is just incredible. I will never not talk about it. So thank you for ending your day with me today and ending. It's a good day.   It's an exciting week for us, so thank you for being here.   DAT Kristy (00:51) Yeah, thank you for having me. It is a good Monday ⁓ ending with podcasting with you and then we're on the heels of our live event. So excitement all around this week.   The Dental A Team (01:02) I know, I agree, I agree. There's so much just, there's so much to be thankful for, so much to be excited about, and I think something that's been coming up a lot, and something that we do a ton in our own schedules, even just talking about, Kristy, your client's getting more time with you than I do, like even individually, you guys, individually, I think you see her more than I do. And there's no bad feelings, I promise, I harbor no anger. I am just slightly jealous. ⁓   But I think on that note, like it requires some really, really specific special skills to be able to plan a week and plan a day. luckily it's something we train on because I think we're really good at it and we have to be even within our own position. like Monday, we're ending our Monday with podcasting because Monday is kind of our meeting slash admin day. Friday is our secondary admin day. And then we have all of our calls Tuesday through Thursday. There are some.   people in there that slide in other days, but they know the caveat is it may have to be moved because these are our admin days. So Kristy, I think it's just like divine that this is the conversation we're having. Today's conversation is all about optimizing your schedule, making sure what you're doing is optimized. But Kristy, before we really start talking about the in practice, like dental schedule, I think it would be smart to maybe even tell me how do you...   when you look at your schedule, what is the thought process that goes through your mind on optimizing your schedule? Because I think business is business, schedule is schedule, how I schedule anything is how I schedule everything, and how I do anything is how I do everything. So how do you look at your schedule and think to optimize it?   DAT Kristy (02:47) Yeah, well, I love that you started it with us and our schedule because with anything, you're either going to be doing it by default or you're going to be intentional about it, right? And so a lot of times when we do it by default, we'll look back at the days and we're like, my gosh, it was such a crazy day. And we look at the end dollar that we produced and it was like, ⁓ why am I doing this? And then there could be another day where we hardly did anything and it felt like,   The Dental A Team (02:58) Mm, I love that.   DAT Kristy (03:17) We won the world, you know, we hit our goal. And so I think just to your point by being intentional, it's not about being crazy, right? But to your point, Tiff, we have to start somewhere. And I think sometimes people get very overwhelmed with where to start. And so obviously I like to start with where were we last year? You know, what is my goal this year?   ⁓ Obviously, doctors have to look at things from an overhead and business perspective, which is smart, and what percent are we expecting to grow this year. So knowing those benchmarks, first and foremost, but when it comes to specifically team and scheduling, ⁓ we need to know if that's our goal, where are we at today, and how can we bridge that gap to get there? So looking at what's our procedure mix.   How many, you know, take your procedure count and how many have you done in the last year? I can want something all the time. And we hear this Tiff, we were kind of joking about it earlier, but you know, doctors want to do more implants and we do their procedure count report and look and go, I want you to too, because last year you did two. just, you know, a lot of times people, you know, go to fill the dreams, build it and it will come.   The Dental A Team (04:34) Yeah.   DAT Kristy (04:41) And there is a little bit of truth to that, but I also think it has to be realistic.   The Dental A Team (04:45) Yeah, I agree. I agree. like when you look at your schedule, I look at my schedule, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to look at how many clients do I have? What's my call time? My call volume? And then we're going to add on top of that, how much time per client do I need for admin style work? I'm creating things for them. I'm looking at trends. I'm working on P &Ls.   So then we go through and it's not just call time. It's like, cool, I'm gonna bust out this many calls, but then I'm gonna give myself creative space for this. Or maybe Wednesday's my PNL day and Tuesday and Thursday's my calls, but we're gonna build it to where we can work with it. And something that I have learned over the course of eight years of this is spreading it out and allowing calls to be scheduled wherever does not breed productivity.   What happens is I'm exhausted constantly because switching from consulting brain to even podcasting brain, so even being on client calls to podcasting, being on client calls to writing a newsletter, to creating some sort of content, to doing a one-on-one with one of the team members on our team, going from one mindset, one space of Tiffanie's life to a different space, even in the same position.   is jarring and it slows down the process. And I like to say you're just not, you're not getting enough of me when I have to do that. And so a lot of times clients are like, can we do it on Monday? I'm like, I would love to give you Monday, but I'm not my best version for what you need me for on a Monday, on a Monday. Because the version of me on a Monday is Dental A Team meeting, leadership calls, like we're GSDing for the business. And so switching from that,   to a client coaching call is a different set of brain cells and it just makes it really hard. So Kristy, what I think that flows into in your conversation is a doctor who's like, yeah, I can do a root canal anytime, who cannot do a root canal anytime. Like you don't wanna do a root canal at 3 p.m. when you close at five. I don't think you do. I don't think I've met a doctor yet who wants that. But a doctor who's like, you know what, I can do root canals on Wednesdays at 10 a.m. every time.   Great, because it builds in predictability and sustainability, I can sustain that. I know what to expect with my schedule and when there is some realm and version of predictability, when the chaos comes from the outside, when things change, when things are thrown at us and people are asking us questions, it doesn't feel quite as bad as when your schedule feels like chaos, right, Kristy?   DAT Kristy (07:33) Yeah, I agree with you. I always like to say too, ⁓ I know most of us that got into dentistry have that S profile from the disc assessment, right? And we want to please, but we're never going to please everybody. And so I hope that you look at your schedule as your team and protecting your team, right? And so   The Dental A Team (07:42) Yeah.   DAT Kristy (07:56) If you're saying yes to the patient, most of the time you're saying no to your team and the schedule and your guys' sanity. So I say the schedule's a baby, protect the baby, right? Don't, yeah. And you guys don't get upset with your doctors either if they want things scheduled at a certain time. ⁓ We've all probably experienced it either ourselves or a loved one when...   The Dental A Team (08:07) I totally agree.   DAT Kristy (08:21) A surgeon says, do surgeries on this day at this time. And it's for a reason. It truly, it's not to give our patients grief, you know? So give them a little grace when they want those specific times.   The Dental A Team (08:35) I totally agree. Even just orthodontists, right? I know we've got orthodontists who work with us, orthodontists who listen to the podcast or GPs who are practicing orthodontia, but I talk to my GPs constantly. They're like, but that's not what my patients want. And I'm like, well, what do you want? You think an orthodontist is going to be like, yeah, sure. I'll ban you anytime. No, they are banding on Fridays. Like they are banding on Wednesdays. Like they're choosing it, right? My oral surgery practices are not doing   all on fours or thirds at any day of the week. They're doing thirds on Fridays. They're doing all on fours on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so that they have two or three days left of the week to troubleshoot things going wrong, having gone wrong. So, or troubleshoot just any needs, not even something gone wrong, but they're leaving that availability for themselves. And I think that's truly optimizing the schedule. Optimizing the schedule is looking at what do I need to accomplish? So what is the end goal of my schedule?   one of the end goals of my schedule. My schedule is to deliver all the things I'm supposed to, but stay sane. I have to be a sane human and a good person at the end of the day. So add that into your goals. But what are you trying to do? And then I think there's that vision, right? What is the goal? What's that vision? But then Kristy, what you're saying is like, how am I gonna get there? And that's like your procedures, right? Like, what are you doing procedure-wise that's adding up to that goal?   and then looking at optimizing your time. And Kristy, you mentioned, and I want you to like expand on this a little bit, you mentioned the implant piece. Tell me more. We kind of briefly joked around about that, but it is very fair and very valid. Tell me about optimizing that space, because I have a few practices that are working on this right now.   DAT Kristy (10:23) Yeah. Well, again, I like to ⁓ do your procedure count and get an actual where you want to go.   if you're only doing two, could we maybe set a goal to do 10? And then we can template that into our schedule next year. And and what we focus on usually tends to happen. Right.   But with that being said, ⁓ I think people need to realize when we do do our template, it's not a one and done. It's always a moving target, right, based on our goals. So don't think that you're gonna get it in there and it's never gonna change. We need to take a look at it because our procedure counts may change. And guess what? Now that we're starting to focus on implants and schedule them, we might need more than 10, right? But with that, look at your procedure counts and see where you've been.   make some goals for growth realistically and then begin to formulate your template.   The Dental A Team (11:25) Yeah, I loved that. I wanted you to dive into that because I thought it was so important. There are so many times that, yeah, I want you to do 10 implants a month too. I really, really do, like more than you know I want you to. But if we just strictly optimize the schedule based off of what we want to do procedure count wise, we don't look at what we have done, like what's our trend, and then how can we grow it. So that's a smart goal, right? A measurable amount that stretches you just slightly. And so...   That was beautiful. So if we wanna get to 10, but we've only done three, cool. Well, maybe we block out four spots and then we start tracking the conversations we're having. Because when you start doing that, that's where you're gonna grow it and seeing the consultations that we're having and then adding more blocks in there truly optimizes that. Now, Kristy, hygiene spectrum and I think we'll use the dreaded word cancellations. ⁓ I hate that word, but.   DAT Kristy (12:20) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (12:21) What do you suggest to practices optimizing their schedules when they do have things that fall off the schedule? What's a good way last minute to optimize a schedule and kind of maybe help rebuild that?   DAT Kristy (12:33) Yeah, well, first of all, are we making it easy for them to fall off? Are we expressing empathy and concern and trying to save that? I always like to say ⁓ the only thing that you can do is offer same day. But if not, then how are you creating value? Are you saying, hey, we're already booking out till fall or winter?   I'd really like to help you keep this appointment. I know doctors can be concerned or your hygienist is gonna be concerned, right? So first and foremost, try to save it and create the value for it. And then you guys as a team also have a system in place where we're all following the same rule of thumb. For pushing them out four to six weeks, then everybody pushes them out four to six weeks, right? And creating that ASAP list to get them back in.   The Dental A Team (13:23) Yeah.   DAT Kristy (13:27) Again, watch your verbiage because just like you Tiff, I'm a huge proponent of verbiage and if you're saying, can add you to my cancellation list, you're sending the message that cancels are okay. So check your verbiage as well and literally all come from the frame of getting our patients healthy and keeping them healthy. So if they're missing their appointments, are they staying healthy?   The Dental A Team (13:53) Yeah, totally agree with you. I think you are right. That's why I hate that word cancellation. Even if you guys, even if you're saying, we've got you scheduled here, but if you need to cancel, just give us 48 hours notice. Like, cool, we accept cancellation. So just don't tell them that it's OK, right? And just be like, my gosh, this is crazy. Nobody ever reschedules their appointments. Like, what's going on? OK, it's wild that anyone wants to come off the schedule. I totally agree with you. Make it a big deal. ⁓ But this is brilliant. So basically, what I'm understanding, one,   DAT Kristy (14:14) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (14:23) Create your templates and create what you want that to look like. You guys, we have templates available. Please reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. are happy to send over some awesome templates. Now templates are called templates for a reason. They are a template and you make it your own. Okay, ideas are ideas. We have a million of them. But Kristy, what you're seeing is really go through and figure out what your ideal schedule is based on the goals that you have, which again, create a self-fulfilling goal to be your best self at the end of every day.   Optimize the number of the procedures that you're able to do, which means I too scheduling you you mentioned ⁓ Kristy and something I want to pull back in is scheduling for not only the patient but the team so happy doctor happy practice most of the time Happy team right happy everyone and I've seen those teams and I've been that team that's like my gosh, like do we always have to work through lunch or do we   Like could we not do this procedure somewhere else? Like I used to have a doctor that would do late evening or late afternoon root canals and they would be late constantly. They were always staying late because they're unpredictable. Or doctors who don't schedule, they don't schedule quite enough time for the procedures that they   truly when we're talking about optimizing, that's the space that we're looking at. We're looking at like, what does this look like to get all of this done in the best ways possible? Those templates help with that, but then you've got to do the due diligence to go through and do it. There's a million podcasts on block scheduling, there's a million webinars we do. Go find them, we're not gonna go through all of those details today. Part of the optimizing and what I just had you bring in is,   really making sure that we've got contingency plans as well. So making sure when things do fall off the schedule, we're looking at, where do we pull patients back into the schedule from and to, right? Like if we have an appointment open up at 10 a.m. tomorrow, where are we pulling this patient from future, from where are we getting them from to fill that hygiene gap? So making sure we've got those contingency plans, but then also something that offices   can occasionally miss is the block schedule rule. I call it the 48-hour rule, right? Or 24-hour rule. And it's when can we break a block? Our teams are oftentimes very skittish of implementing block scheduling because they are concerned that they're not gonna fill the blocks and that they narrowed into this can only be this thing. But Kristy, I like to, and tell me what you do for teams too.   I like to say, listen, if it's not filled by this spot based on the time that's available on the schedule, we fill it with something. And that's to where that's a contingency plan. And that's either like, it was diagnosed now, can they come in or pulling in again from those lists that you mentioned? And Kristy, how do you handle that with Teams and how do you get them to utilize that?   DAT Kristy (17:22) Yeah, well, I'm with you, Tiff. Obviously, if they're really, really busy, ⁓ a 24-hour ⁓ block or 24-hour, I guess, time limit could be very achievable with a very busy office. But I like them to come up with their time, you know?   The Dental A Team (17:37) Mm-hmm.   DAT Kristy (17:44) Typically 48 hours is what most practices do because it gives you a little leeway. Again, I do have an occasional one where it's 24 hours because they're so booked out that they have a short call list that is very easy to pull from. But also to your point, I think so many people miss the opportunities from their morning huddles. Many times the patients are already coming in in your day.   You might have a patient in the doctor's schedule that is doing fillings on the upper right, but still has fillings in other quadrants. Could we keep them and do more? And they'd appreciate that not having to come back in another visit. Or, you know, look at hygiene. Usually in any given hygiene schedule in an eight-hour day, there's probably two to three people that have outstanding treatment that maybe we can convert them. In fact, maybe we could call ahead.   and ask them to come earlier because doctor had a hole in the schedule, right? So many times it's not having to fish from somewhere else. It's literally right there within your schedule.   The Dental A Team (18:41) Mm.   Yeah, and that's the contingency planning every day. So we're constantly looking and building that predictability. Because even that right there, what you said, was an unpredictable moment, but you just built predictability into it by looking for an option that we can foresee and maybe even plan ahead and get it fixed to help that. So beautiful, Kristy, I know you'd have all of the pieces that I wanted. Thank you. I love that.   DAT Kristy (19:16) ⁓   The Dental A Team (19:20) If you guys wanna optimize your schedule, like Kristy's your gal. Kristy, I have watched you in person, hands-on, optimize schedules and block schedule. You are so fantastic at it. I know our whole team is, but I really, really hand pick when you're gonna do these and what the content's gonna be. So this was strategic for you. So Kristy, thank you for those tips. think maybe, let me know if we need to add on to this, but I think action item-wise, it's, I would say look at what you're doing now. Look at your schedule now. Look at your goals.   Look at your procedures and look at how can I streamline this? How can I make this any more efficient? ⁓ Time journaling is a fantastic version. So looking at your procedures that you're doing, your procedure mix and how many, and then time journaling how long they take you. And then looking at where do you want to do these things? Do you want a three o'clock root canal? If you do, more power to you. You just let your team know, whatever you want that to look like.   And then really looking at those contingency plans as well. So how do we build in the contingency plans? Morning huddle is a great space to do that on the daily, but giving the tools and the empowerment to the team to have contingencies prior to that too. Kristy, anything I missed that you want to add in there?   DAT Kristy (20:30) think that's really good, but even in morning huddle, don't forget to not just look at today, look beyond, because if tomorrow's not at goal, starting today would be a little bit easier for the team to call on patients that are already within that day, right? So don't forget to look ahead also. And truly, as you're starting to implement templates, doctors...   work with your team, get in the habit of looking a week or two out and just looking at the schedule, explaining to them if it doesn't work here, why, you know? And, you know, look at the days, you guys add them up, add them up and make sure it's equaling your goal. When you see, I like to call it a wallpaper template where it's like, we just cleared all, you know, made sure all the white space was filled. ⁓ That's truly not the goal of a template, if we're being honest.   The Dental A Team (21:20) I love that.   DAT Kristy (21:25) ⁓ so add up your days, make sure it's equaling your goal and kind of gamify it. See how we can get better at it, you know? Yeah.   The Dental A Team (21:33) Yeah, I think those are great. Good job. Thank you, Kristy.   And you guys, listen to this a few times. Kristy is full of, she's just a wealth of knowledge and she's got so many tips and tricks. So I want you to go back, listen to this, take some notes if you weren't able to yet. Kristy, thank you for letting me pick your brain. Thank you for being here on this Monday afternoon with me. And I'm just, I'm so grateful for you and your brain. So thank you.   DAT Kristy (21:57) Thank you.   The Dental A Team (21:58) Yeah, and everyone go listen to this again. Drop us a five star review below. Let us know what your favorite tips were. And if you have anything to add to it, we'd love to hear about that too. Either within your review or Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. That's where you'll snag that promised template as well. My marketing team is on it and they want to give it away to you. So email us Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. You can also book a strategy call with us and get the template as well as strategy. We can help walk you through this ⁓ at our website.   TheDentalATeam.com. So those are all the pieces you guys. Go make life wonderful. Trish always says go be wonderful and go change lives. Thanks so much. We'll catch you next time.

Send me a one-way text about this episode! I'll give you a shout out or answer your question on a future episode.In this second installment of our Making Room Series, I'm joined by special guest, Jessica Fisher, to tackle Making Room in Your Budget for the holidays. We will look at 3 best practices you can implement now to avoid overbuying, stress, and Christmas debt. Let's make room in our budgets this holiday season for giving and celebrating with generosity, gratitude and joy.NOTES & RESOURCESJessica's Links:www.lifeasmom.com & www.goodcheapeats.comChristmas Budget Worksheet (free) on lifeasmom.comHoliday Baking Supply Checklist (free) on goodcheapeats.comHoliday Success Kit Christmas Planner on goodcheapeats.com, use code ALLISON25 for 25% off your orderFULL SHOW NOTES AND LINKS on the companion blog post for this episode. www.theartofhomepodcast.com/blog, search "MM 36".RECIPE EXCHANGEGet recipes, make friends & support The Art of Home! Leave your tip of $5 or more by October 24, 2025!!https://www.theartofhomepodcast.com/recipe Support the showHOMEMAKING RESOURCES Private Facebook Group, Homemaker Forum Newsletter Archive JR Miller's Homemaking Study Guide SUPPORT & CONNECT Review | Love The Podcast Contact | Voicemail |Instagram | Facebook | Website | Email Follow | Follow The Podcast Support | theartofhomepodcast.com/support Buy | as an Amazon affiliate, AoH receives a small commission at no extra cost to you when you use our links to purchase items we recommend

Welcome back to our weekend Cabral HouseCall shows!   This is where we answer our community's wellness, weight loss, and anti-aging questions to help people get back on track!   Check out today's questions:    BM: Hi Dr Cabral! I'm 40y.o. m. Big5 Dec24:1)IgG High-0, Moderate-3(wheat, eggs, chili p.), Low-21, yeast-normal, candida alb-moderate;2)Omega3-11%;3)M&M: elevated mercury, aluminum;4)OAT: candida overgrowth. Jan-Jul2025: 7day detox>CBO protocol>CBO finisher 2 months. Followed sensitive gut guide. Didn't do heavy metals detox, intestinal cleanse. Aug25 IgG (EquiLife (EL)): high12; moderate 38, low 42, yeast-moderate, candida alb-moderate. Working with EL coach. EL coach, your podcasts suggest this is leaky gut. EL wellness plan (Aug25): 7d detox>para protocol, clean gut prob., Healthy gut support, GSE drops>heavy metals detox. Eliminate: all in high+gluten, yeast (have not started yet). Am I on the right path and have you seen such cases in your practice? what is likely root cause? Thank you.                                                  Lisa: Can you recommend what to do or take if I experience abdominal pain or discomfort while vacationing in Europe later this fall? I'm concerned that access to the “right” foods might be tough while on the cruise and touring. Currently I'm in the last month of my CBO protocol and have also completed the 14 day detox and 7 day intestinal cleanse . All will be completed before I leave for Europe. Thank you, Lisa         Susy: Hi dr Cabral, my minerals and metals test showed that my zinc is optimal and copper is very low even after supplementing with zinc and copper and the DNS for 3 months. But I've noticed that copper is usually not recommended on its own by an IHP. However I've heard some practitioners say that zinc can inhibit proper copper absorption or at least take longer to get optimal levels of copper if taken with zinc. What are your thoughts on that? Or is it possible to get to much zinc if I keep taking it together?                                                                                                                                               Bettina: Hi Dr. Cabral, My husband recently purchased a testosterone supplement he came across—probably via Instagram—and I wanted to ask your opinion on the ingredients. Magnesium oxide Ginseng extract (Panax ginseng) Muira puama extract (Ptychopetalum olacoides) Fenugreek extract (Trigonella foenum-graecum L.) Fillers (microcrystalline cellulose) Zinc citrate Anti-caking agents (cross-linked sodium carboxymethylcellulose, magnesium salts of fatty acids) Stabilizer (hydroxypropylmethylcellulose) Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3) Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6) Black pepper extract (Piper nigrum) Coating agents (hydroxypropylmethylcellulose, polyethylene glycol) Coloring agent (calcium carbonate) Do you think this combination is safe and potentially effective? Thanks for your help on this :-)                Svetlana: Hello Dr.Cabral, after reading your book and listening to your podcasts I've made many positive changes to my lifestyle, one of them is taking the DNS for breakfast. I'm losing weight now (desired), but it takes me very long to finish the shake and I'm wondering if that's not a good thing in the long run since it keeps my insulin levels up without a break to my digestive system until lunch. It makes me feel very full, sometimes can't finish it until noon when I start it about 8:30am. At lunch time I'm still full and end up skipping lunch and eating supper at 5, no food after 7pm. I only put about 13oz of coconut water (or coconut milk mixed with water), 1 tbsp chia seeds, small handful of aronia berries and about 1/4 cup cauliflower in it. I used to eat 3 large meals and many snacks before       Thank you for tuning into today's Cabral HouseCall and be sure to check back tomorrow where we answer more of our community's questions!    - - - Show Notes and Resources: StephenCabral.com/3536 - - - Get a FREE Copy of Dr. Cabral's Book: The Rain Barrel Effect - - - Join the Community & Get Your Questions Answered: CabralSupportGroup.com - - - Dr. Cabral's Most Popular At-Home Lab Tests: > Complete Minerals & Metals Test (Test for mineral imbalances & heavy metal toxicity) - - - > Complete Candida, Metabolic & Vitamins Test (Test for 75 biomarkers including yeast & bacterial gut overgrowth, as well as vitamin levels) - - - > Complete Stress, Mood & Metabolism Test (Discover your complete thyroid, adrenal, hormone, vitamin D & insulin levels) - - - > Complete Food Sensitivity Test (Find out your hidden food sensitivities) - - - > Complete Omega-3 & Inflammation Test (Discover your levels of inflammation related to your omega-6 to omega-3 levels) - - - Get Your Question Answered On An Upcoming HouseCall: StephenCabral.com/askcabral - - - Would You Take 30 Seconds To Rate & Review The Cabral Concept? 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In this episode, Diana  is joined by guest Ken Keys, PhD, President of CRG and an expert on leadership, wellness, and life purpose. They discuss Ken's difficult upbringing, including the trauma experienced by his parents and his own battles with depression and suicidal thoughts. Ken shares his journey to discovering his purpose, the importance of emotional intelligence, and the impact of finding forgivingness and letting go of past trauma. The episode also highlights actionable steps for personal growth and emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive and positive influences. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:20 Diana's Personal Update 02:06 Practicing Gratitude 03:40 Introducing Today's Guest: Ken Keys 04:48 Ken Keys' Background and Career Journey 05:53 Ken's Family and Upbringing 08:42 Challenges and Lessons from Dairy Farming 16:20 Ken's Struggles with Depression and Wellness Journey 19:46 Traumatic Experience and Forgiveness 28:20 Family Dynamics and Emotional Growth 30:52 The Decline of Reverence for God 31:13 The Impact of Media on Society 31:54 Personal Reflections on Family and Intimacy 32:36 Journey Back to Faith 33:49 Discovering a New Christian Community 35:01 Embracing Ministry and Leadership 36:37 The Importance of Personal Style in Ministry 38:57 Overcoming Family Expectations 41:27 Judgment and Acceptance in Christian Life 46:27 The Influence of Associations 55:23 Final Thoughts and Actionable Steps www.kenkeis.com/faithful for your free gift   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ EP 7 Guest Ken Keis Living On Purpose [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hi everybody. How are you guys doing today? I hope you are well. It is a beautiful day outside. Fall isn't even here yet it seems. But my garden. We got to harvest some of our food. We ate some green beans and snap peas and ate some strawberries from my garden. We're just waiting for the tomatoes to ripen. But it's really exciting when you start eating from your own garden, you didn't even think it was going to survive. And with the change of seasons [00:02:00] here, and Thanksgiving is coming up, holidays are coming up. I didn't really do a Thanksgiving podcast, but we want to be thankful. It's hard to be thankful this year, isn't it? Was a huge dumpster fire, and it's probably not all gonna go away you know, January 1st , I'm sure isn't gonna magically disappear, but, um, we have to practice the art of being thankful and grateful for what we have. Make a list, and I know it's hard, just the littlest things that you see during the day. Hey, I have the song on the radio I heard, and it was such a blessing to me. Or like, me, I had a harvest this week. Or, oh, the weather is so beautiful or. My kid got an A on his spelling. Just the little things, just make a [00:03:00] list and go back to those lists. And I'm not one of those positive thinker people. I'm not, I have to work at being positive. I like being around positive people because that lifts me up. My husband is naturally positive and he lifts me up. Right now. He's going through a hard time with his medical stuff and I have to lift him up when I'm having a bad day, he has to lift me up. But we try and practice gratefulness even in the little things. So I hope that encourages you during this holiday. I'm not gonna do a big holiday podcast. Today I have a guest with me today and he's going to talk about, when you feel like, your life doesn't feel like it has meeting you don't have any fulfillment, you're trying to get outta the hole you're in. Maybe you got outta a domestic violence situation and you don't know how to fulfill your [00:04:00] dreams. You don't know how to take that step and work towards your ideal life. Well, this next guest is going to help you do that, to leave the drama behind and find out, which parts of your personality you were born with, which ones you probably need to get rid of, or which ones you can develop further. How you're able to adapt to other people's behavior. Approach your interactions with confidence instead of fear. Find out what makes other people tick. How to handle misunderstandings and defensiveness. How do you handle your triggers? Hey, we've all got drama that we need to leave behind. We wanna move forward, right? So I'm going to read his bio here. Ken Keys PhD President of CRG is a global expert on leadership, wellness, behavioral assessments, and life purpose. [00:05:00] In 28 years, he has conducted over 3000 presentations and invested 10,000 hours. In consulting and coaching. Ken Keys is considered a foremost global authority on the way assessment strategies and processes. Increase and multiply success rates. He's co-created CRGs proprietary development models and has written over 4 million words of content for 40 business training programs and 400 plus articles. His latest book, the Quest for Purpose, a Self-Discovery Process to Find It and Live It. So please welcome Ken Keys. Thanks so much, Ken Keith, for coming on the show. Appreciate it. Well, well it's great to be hanging out with you. Tell us about your self, your upbringing, and your family. Did you come from a [00:06:00] successful family? Well, um, I am a third generation, uh, in Canada. So my grandparents, all four came from Hungary between the first and second World War as immigrants. And then they settled here. I'm about an hour east of Vancouver, Canada, so that's where I make my home. And so I actually grew up on a dairy farm. After uh, high school I went to agricultural college, came back to work on the farm, but pretty well a few months in dad and I were ready to beat each other into a pulp. 'cause we really didn't get along. Both of us wanted to be in charge and dad was kind of of the European mindset, just do what I say. I'll only tell you and criticize you. When you screw up. I'm never going to affirm you or. Do something positive 'cause that might go to your head. Aw. And so I, you know, after a couple of years I left the farm, I went and worked in agricultural fields as first, uh, for the Department of Agriculture. Then as a [00:07:00] feed sales rep, uh, for agriculture company. My diploma is a nutrition and genetics, so I was really a nutritionist to dairy cattle farmers. And then I actually started my own farm across the street. Which was fine, I could do my own thing. And then the late eighties, I got into this industry as a sales trainer. So I bought a franchise in the sales training. I said, what a na natural transition, uh, closed down my dairy farm. And then that was the beginning of this. Now when we're recording this, 32 years later, I said, where did that go? Uh, and, you know, three or four books, the author of 12 psychological assessments presented 3000 times somewhere around the world. Uh, authored 4 million words of content. You know, it's an interesting story and journey. And of course, I'll link in my, uh, face story here in a minute as well. So now this, it is. 32 years doing what I'm doing. And the company that I own was founded in 1979 by a professor at a Christian university. He wanted to create a, uh, create an assessment that was [00:08:00] different, better, more improved than Disc Myers-Briggs true colors, way back in 1979. And so he created the tool, the personal style indicator. I got connected to that company in 1990 and then bought it nearly 20 years ago. So we're now, you know, doing business in 12 languages, 30 countries around the world. And all our tools are built on a Christian worldview view, but we equally serve, you know, like Boeing mm-hmm. Or companies of that nature, or Ford or Chrysler as we do Ministries. And we just say, we're just here to help develop people. And then my purpose in life is to help others to live, lead, and work on purpose and to help them to realize their potential. So that's really been our focus for the last three decades. Well, you talk about the cows and I don't think I've ever milked a cow and well, it is 24 7, and I think that was one of the things that happened. I think, and here's my. Encouragement and challenge for those people that are listening, watching this show today [00:09:00] is I got up one morning with my dairy herd and I asked myself this question, if I was doing this same thing 20 years from now, would that be okay? And I said, no, no, no, no, no. I can't be doing that. And I always knew I was to be a speaker. Even when I was 16, I was speaking in front of groups, MCing groups asked to do that kinda work. Uh, I never thought I would be an author because my grade nine teacher said, well, I wouldn't amount to anything because I couldn't read or write. And it was discovered when I did my master's degree that I was dyslexic. So the invention of the computer when I went to school, I'm young, just to let you know, but when I went to school, there weren't, there weren't computers. The program word wasn't there to help me understand or see the words, uh, words that I was misspelling. And the reality is, is that, so I have mispronounced some words, so what doesn't matter, you know, get over it. And that led me to being a writer, which no way you [00:10:00] would've ever convinced me that was gonna be something that I would do almost more of than any single item in my lifetime. So here we are. And now just really trying to, you know, live his purpose and to help encourage other people to live theirs and to be anchored in that. Wow. Research shows. Diana is that when you're out there and engaging in nature, it actually feeds your soul. It does. So, even the research of kids that live in the countryside are healthier than those mm-hmm. That live in sterile environments in a condo, you know, in a 50 story building. I'm not here to judge you because you live in a condo. I'm just saying the reality is the health stats show that when you're out and about and you're just kind of in nature, your immunity strengthens, but so does your core soul because you're out there with nature and hey, that was designed that way. Absolutely. I think it's kept me sane. I liked being outside. I liked going out there and fussing over [00:11:00] my plants. Well, it's in, it's always interesting me to quote unquote live off the grid. And what I mean by that is just being a property that doesn't require utilities from third parties and things like that. But I'd live close to the town or city. There is a lot of effort and work, and one of the reasons that I did stop dairy farming was the 24 7 obligation, 365 days a year. I mean, you never have a day off in a dairy farmer's environment. Now, I appreciate the values that I learned, tenacity, persistence it doesn't matter what the weather's doing. I remember one time where it was very cold. One February. It was rare for where we live, but all the pipes and everything were frozen. Well, it took me four hours of fighting just to thaw all the pipes out so I could milk my cows. And just going back in the house and watching TV wasn't an option. It had to be done. So no matter, you know, what your personality or personal style is or anything like that, those character [00:12:00] traits were entrenched in me or developed in me in that persistence, uh, growing up. So that, you know, that's part of what I bring into it. I'm not. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was thankful for growing up in that environment, but it wasn't something that I was meant to do going forward. So you mentioned your father, but you also said that your mom, had some abuse in her childhood Hmm. Would you, be willing to elaborate on that? Sure. You know, it's interesting. I grew up in quote unquote a Christian home. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't really because my grandparents were Presbyterian in their background. No judgment. Anybody has that background. I grew up in the Presbyterian church. My brother and I were the youth, so that was, they were the only ones that were attending. But what I didn't see in my family was really the relationship with Christ. Mm. It was a cognitive thing, it was a cerebral thing. It was a duty, but it wasn't really an experience. It wasn't a relationship whatsoever. And of course, later on, I sort of [00:13:00] left the church. I can tell you my spiritual story here in a bit. But as a result of that, my dad was 16 years of age when his dad died of an unknown causes. He was on the farm, so he was forced to quit school in grade eight or nine to take over the farm with his mother. Now, his eldest brother was working off the farm, but also was helping on the farm, and a year later died of an unknown. As well. So here his father dies and then, you know, the next year before he is almost 17, his eldest brother that he looked up to died as well. Oh. And then my grandmother, where I was one of the, I wasn't the eldest male, but in that culture, you know, males just seemed to be, that was important to grandma. So I was the first born in Elst male farm. Grandma was pretty good with me, but she had a critical spirit. And so that spirit then led into my dad. My dad's way of dealing with that trauma was [00:14:00] to say nothing, just really be quiet. Mm-hmm. And the culture, the Hungarian culture also was one of non-emotional. I mean, you didn't share your feelings, you didn't share what was going on. You didn't share your heart. And even though my dad was on the board of the church, an elder. I never saw him pray. I never really see him have this relationship. He believes in God, you know, is he saved? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to know just for the viewers. I'm an ordained pastor now, so, this is kind of a full circle for me. And then my mom, grew up in as an, as a teenager with a father who was abusive when he was drinking. So an adult child of an alcoholic is kind of the process. So he, later on, , he straightened up. However, there was one night, my understanding from the story, I wasn't around yet where grandpa came home and then, was, beating on the kids and grandma got a knife and says, you touch him again, I'll kill you. Mm. And so that was kind of the environment that my mom grew up in. Now, grandpa, [00:15:00] later on when I knew him, I never knew that part of him. He was able to get his binge drinking under control. His English was broken, but we had a great relationship. He passed away sooner, and then grandma was left. Grandma was a critical spirits to my mom. So my mom now as we record, this is 86, going on 87 soon, and, I think she worries for the entire planet. I think her self-worth as far as she still has not processed this value set. So she plays the victim card extensively. And then as far as my environment for my dad, giving compliments, providing compliments just never happened. So he is 88 at the time of recording this and I'm 60. And I do not recall ever him telling me that he loves me. Aw. I just not now, does he? Yes, he does. But to verbally say that I love you just doesn't happen. I could go to his place though. And say, [00:16:00] dad, I need to borrow your truck. I need to borrow tools. Always, yes. Never says no to being helpful, but to be able to have that emotional connection and to articulate it is not something he learned. I think he did the best that he could with what he knew. So same with my mom. So I don't, I'm not bitter with them now. I'm obviously disappointed. But what it led to for me in my teenage years, when I came back from college, so I was 19 years of age, I think when I finished college, I started when I was younger is, I was suicidal. Hmm. So I sat there on the farm, here I'm arguing with my dad. I want to take it over, but he won't include me in any decisions. This is the, it's my way of the highway. There was no relationship per se, it was just a dictatorship. Mm-hmm. And then talking about deeper things that never happened, at home, when I got in some trouble with a girl, in my younger years, I wanted to share that with my mom, and she just started to criticize me. So it told me [00:17:00] never share anything with my mother that I'm dealing with as far as those pieces. So I sat there and I really said, is life really worth it? And for those of you that have been through trauma or whatever, suicide is really calling out, suicide is a hopelessness. It's a mm-hmm. Where you believe in that moment that not being here would be far less painful than being here. And first of all, it's alive, the enemy. So if we think about John 10, 10 is that the enemy comes to, kill, steal, and destroy or whatever that order is, and. And so he wants you to, take your own life because then you know what, your impact for the ministry is not gonna be there. Your impact for others is not gonna be there. Well, obviously I didn't take my life, but I thought about it and I had those components or considerations Later on in life, about a decade later, I was diagnosed asmatic depressive. And so I went on an antidepressant called Lithium, and it was my friend of mine, [00:18:00] actually out of Dallas, Texas. And she was a psychologist and she said, Ken, you're not a depressed person. There's something else biologically going on with you. And so we, I, at my insistence, did a glucose tolerance test, found out I was hypoglycemic. I wasn't depressed at all. Yeah. So what that had to do was around my blood sugar levels. So one of my passions now in life is I love to develop the whole person. And we have 12 assessments in our company from personality, but we also have an assessment on wellness and stress. And as a, I consider myself, a wellness expert. Mm-hmm. Because I don't believe that we need to rely on external people for my health. And so a lot of times people get into trouble where they don't take care of themselves. So mm-hmm. It's very difficult to be alive and functional and be a spiritual, , lion when you are fatigued, when you have no [00:19:00] energy. So, uh, I say fatigue makes cowards of us all. I wasn't the person who said I was another person who had started that. So I started to look at how can I take care of myself? Make sure you get the sleep, make sure for the most part you eat right, that you do things right. A lot of times as individuals, we don't take care of ourselves, and then we wonder why we're lethargic or we can't focus or we can't concentrate. And we do that with our kids. So I, you know, this body is a temple. We have a responsibility to take care of it. So that's why we've been working in all these different areas. And then one other. And then we're talking about trauma. And I haven't, I've only shared this very few times on podcasts and I don't, not that it's a secret. I actually share this story in my book, the Quest for Purpose. Mm-hmm. Which I am actually going to give everybody a copy of this at the end of the show. Right. Wow. So we are gonna be able to give you a free download of that book. But in the book, in 1982, I was actually [00:20:00] dating my high school sweetheart. So it was the person that I took to my prom. She was a couple years younger than me. And on December 13th, 1982 the police officer showed up at my home and said, we'd like to interview Ken. Now I happen to be out in town with my brother at that time, and there wasn't cell phones that we personally had. So when I got that, they said it's very urgent that Ken come to the station as soon as he gets home. I'm curious. I don't know what this is about. I am also nervous. I'm a little bit fearful. I'm having nervous energy and trying to crack jokes when I get to the police department. Yeah. So I get into one of these interview rooms that are just like, the TV says steel chairs, bricks, security, glass. One person in the room, TV cameras recording you. And I say, you know, what's this about? And the officer says, we have a reason to believe that you are, dating or a boyfriend of Carol Ann Repel. And I said, yeah, well that's true. And he said, well, she was murdered last [00:21:00] night. Oh. And so, what are you talking about? And I was one of the second last people to talk to her, and I had been chatting with her on the phone. She was a individual who was gifted and skilled and wanted to be the first female fighter pilot in the Canadian forces. So she was late at night at her employer's location, which was at the airport, and the janitor made a sexual advance to her that went wrong and then beat her to death. Oh, so that's, I'm being interviewed for this. They're asking about it and it came to learn. They didn't know who did it. It was a mystery for months, but they had their suspicions, but they had no proof. And eventually they, charged somebody who I knew, he had been hired as a security guard for some youth group work that we had done. At that moment, that day, I went to work. I said, I'm like, I was complete denial. Just [00:22:00] what is going on on this thing? She was 22 years of age, Diana. Mm-hmm. Maybe going on to 23. So we've all had our situations or stories. It took me years later where I did a process, called emotional freedom Technique. You can agree with it or not, but it was a Christian who created it. I was drenched in sweat, just processing all the. Emotional sort of luggage and baggage that came out of that stuff through the process we did. It was, you just call it very, very intense counseling, if you wanna call it that. And, so we, but I still needed to kind of move forward. I was thankful for the relationship with her. I was angry, upset, but certainly in denial for not months but years, because of that event and when it occurred. There. And then being a person of interest is, has its own dynamics. Oh, so they thought it might have been you? Well, there was that consideration. Now I had a, alibi. I was actually with my parents that night when this [00:23:00] occurred. So that, I mean, I lived alone. I was a single guy, so it was just happenstance, the Holy Spirit protecting me mm-hmm. From any kinda suspicions. But really they were trying to figure out who did it. And I was a witness to, that by being one of the last people to talk to her alive. Hmm. And now, you know, when we're recording, this is many, many years later, almost 40 years later, uh, but still it has sort of an emotional tag that goes with that. So all of us have had things that happen. My encouragement is, is no matter what, because I mean, you're in your podcast trying to help people go through trauma. You always have a choice about what you're gonna do with it. And as a trained counselor. A lot of times in the past, counseling was always about processing your past. I disagree with that. Is that we need to look to our future. Mm-hmm. You know, Carolyn Lee's research on, you know, you know who turned on, who switch off your brain and switch on your brain. Her [00:24:00] books really talks about what you focus on. Gets more on more of it. So if I go in counseling and just relive the event and relive the event and relive the event, well I haven't moved you forward. Forward. So I'm not denying its issues or what's going on or that it happened, I'm just denying it's hold in your future. So this is around forgiveness. I had to forgive the guy who killed her. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, you know, the old story, everybody has heard this, if you've been in any front of any servant, is that unforgiveness is like you taking the poison and wanting the other person to live. Right. We've all heard that. Yes. Well, we just need to be reminded of that to, I wasn't obviously agreeing with the heinous act. He did, but I had to forgive him so that I would be free in that his heinous act wouldn't be affecting me, plus my family and everybody else around me as well. So, uh, I don't think you knew that story was coming, Diana. Actually, I did. I [00:25:00] read your blog. Oh, you did? You did. Oh, well, you're one of the few. So, uh, and when I do my normal podcast, I don't mention this for very often, but you know, the Holy Spirit has lifted me up, been there beside me in that. It's not him who did this. You know, I can rely on him to be able to kind of build me up. And in fact, I have to, I mean, if we're going through life, we're just gonna have stuff happen. Mm-hmm. It's just part of the dynamic of living in a broken world. Yeah. It definitely is a fallen world. Yeah. I'll swing around back to what you said about forgiveness. Did the, murderer, go to prison or did he think of that? Yeah, he was eventually caught. What they did is they knew who he was, but they didn't, you know, DNA was kind of, just in its infancy stages then in 1982. So, what they did is they set up a sting operation and then they had somebody, you know, where people wear wire and they're recording what's being [00:26:00] said. There was some, someone in his life that he had semi revealed that he was involved with this. And so they knew that, but they couldn't prove anything. So then they set up this sting and then it went from there. And then once he sort of confessed in this, sting operation with this person, then it went to downhill from there. Yes, he was, I think his time, I think he's like in life, in prison for life. So was it easier to forgive that you saw some justice for your girlfriend, or did that not really matter? It's so long ago. I'm not sure if I recall if I was thinking either way, but mm-hmm. But I think finding the person who did it was important just for safety matters. Mm-hmm. And curiosity and just, you know, who was it that did this? I, knowing the person to a certain degree, I mean, because we had hired him and had interactions with him. He wasn't a hundred [00:27:00] percent there, if you know what I mean. Oh, okay. Just so, I don't wanna use the word simple, but I use the word just not a hundred percent. You know, the elevator didn't go a hundred percent to the top. And I think it was not planned. I believe that it was just a sexual advance go bad, and he went to a point of no return, that she's gonna say something, I'm gonna get into trouble. And the only way to stop this is to end her life. Mm-hmm. And I believe that's what occurred and what happened. So he was single, he was in his thirties. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you know, a lot of sexual predators are kind of in that category. I don't know if he was or wasn't. I don't know. And there was no other charges in other parts of his life. But that's kind of how that unfolded. Ian, you know, at this point, I'm obviously very, very sad. She was an amazing girl. And being my grad prom date had sort of a. Not sort of had a significance sort of in my history, in my life as well, but I was just thankful that justice was [00:28:00] done and those things were discovered. And I'm just saying to those people at watch who are listening, that, you know, no matter what happens, we have these choices to be able to move to the next level. I mean, I'm thankful Diana, for your ministry and Ministries like you that help people to kind of bridge that gap from where they are to where they need to do or some of the work that we do as well. So, you know, example is my parents, my mom mm-hmm. Still has not processed this adult child of alcoholic. Her behavior is around it. Mm-hmm. In interesting enough, my sister who is in her fifties, and I hopefully she doesn't watch this, is you know, some of the tendencies are there too. Like, I know my parents won't watch it. But you know, if one of my family members watch it, is that, that worry side, that anxiety side that gets passed down? Yes. Now and obviously my depression side came out of that family dynamic. Mm-hmm. And then with my dad, never saying, never having a compliment. I think he just emotionally was unable to do it. Mm-hmm. Now, what's [00:29:00] really fun is my kids are 25 and 24 now, and they're very developed and skilled individuals. My wife Brenda, is a school teacher, so we're both in the professional development fields. Mm-hmm. And for their age. The kids are amazing. Of course, parents are biased about this, but they really mess with grandpa and grandma now. Oh. So my daughter will go in there, grandpa, we really, really, really love you. We really do. Just waiting to see if he'll say anything. And then he'll go, so he'll mumble and then he'll kind of be embarrassed. He'll look down. And it's not that he doesn't have any emotions, but the kids kind of know that. And they just, because grandparents can't mess with their grandkids that way. And then my son will do the same thing with them. And so from that point of view, we've just loved on them, accepting them for where they're at. I feel badly for them that they haven't been able to brace everything that they could. You know, when we're in the stressful situation, we are in the world right now. They have just taken the [00:30:00] worry of the whole world upon their shoulders. Right? You know, God's very clear in his word. Fear is from the enemy. Mm-hmm. You know, it doesn't mean stupid, but there's not one scripture that I'm aware of unless you want to correct me, Diana, that says, you know what? Being fearful a little bit's. Okay. Everything is fear. Not Well, you know, God says, he gives you fear so you don't jump off the edge of a cliff or, bungee jump off of Well, I have bungee jump, but I hear what you're saying is that, that fight or flight, yeah. That's a healthy fear. It keeps you from doing something really stupid. Mm-hmm. But, and then when we get into the scripture, you know, fear fear of the Lord is really a reverence for 'em if you get into the Greek and the Hebrew. Mm-hmm. Is that it's reverence for them and it's honoring of them. And in that's part of the problem in the global society right now. There's no fear of him. There's no reverence for God anymore. No. And so it's a godless society in many ways. That's why people are acting out when you take [00:31:00] God out, then you get these situations where people are spiritualists and they really are acting on their own. And the enemy is controlling them. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And their flesh. Yeah. Well, for sure. And if it's not modeled for you and we teach that in our development factors model that as an observer, as a child of the relationships around you, that's all you know to do. Yeah. And of course we think that life is around social media, that it's around podcasts like this, but there was none of that. Mm-hmm. Back 50, 60 years ago. And in fact, the TV was just even coming in and some of the examples there, and most of the examples were way more wholesome. Yeah. And loving back then. I think the. The most amount of violence was on gun smoke. Uh, I love that show. Of course. I mean, those of us that are older, remember that one? That was great. So part of what, you know, I wanna encourage the listeners [00:32:00] is, people do the best that they can with what they know. My mom has told me that she loves me, but it's kind of an awkward thing. It's a thing that she does there. If I say that I love her, then she would say, well, me too. Um, but not everybody is that way. And then you talk about intimacy. We used to joke with my parents that said, how do we exist? You guys never touch each other. Like, how did it even happen? Like, was it an accident while you were sleeping or something? So we used to just, we joked about that because there was zero. Intimacy between them. And but I think that again, was cultural and that was part of it. Now, when we think about ministry and spiritual life, and again, the, hopefully this reaches people and it touches your heart for the I went to a church that really nice people, but the services were equivalent to a funeral. Oh yeah. And then the other one is, is when you have the theology and the mindset that you do in that group, they were one of the, some of the most miserable people [00:33:00] that I knew, and this was the Christian Church. I said, well, why would I wanna be part of this? Right. 16, 17, 18, 19, I really fell off and I was crazy, wild and everything. Went to college found out that, uh, man, I could buy four cases of beer for 20 bucks back there in the province of Alberta. And the drinking age was 18 and that's what I was. And so it was a crazy time for me. But then when I got into my later years of my twenties, 26, 27, I was invited to a Bible study by a friend of mine and I said, I don't know. Like I always knew God was there. Mm-hmm. But I really didn't wanna have anything to do with him. I wasn't vile. There was some people that were violent. I was just disinterested in Christian people. Mm-hmm. The number one reason that I left the church were Christians. Yep. At least in my head. But I was around 25, 26 and I went to this Bible study and that this friend of mine, he had, it was a business owner and he had it one Saturday a month. And I walked in this room and [00:34:00] here are these Christians telling jokes and having fun. And it says those two things don't coexist with being a Christian. So he is having fun, he is telling jokes, he's enjoying himself. It wasn't a legalistic pet. And abyss. I said, what? And so all of a sudden my eyes were started to open up and then the spirit, oh no man, the spirit's gonna come. I might even cry. But he came to me because he had me tagged for this kinda work, right? Is he says, Ken, it's not about you and them, it's about you and me. Mm-hmm. So when we have issues with other people, it's always about going vertical. People will always disappoint you. And then his other, his next word to me was clear. He says, and Ken, when were you? Perfect. So none of us are perfect. And so, you know, some of the most judgmental people I've ever met were, have been in the Christian environment, right. That legalistic kind of side. And I said, okay, fine. [00:35:00] Now moving towards it. And that's when I was baptized in a friend's pool, I think it was 28 years of age, and started to go on this journey. And then later on started doing more work for Ministries and said, you know what? I really want to hone my, ministry side and decided to. Take additional biblical studies. Mm-hmm. And then be ordained actually through a friend of mine who, he has a pastor of a church, but he also is one of our associates. 'cause we license other people, around the world to use our tools to serve their community. So this pastor was using it to serve his team and all his team members were going through it. And he also was doing community outreach. And he says, no, we'll, Andor and you. Ordain you under our, CEEC banner. So there's probably about 4,000 kind of interdenominational groups that are under this banner, and that's why I'm ordained under that. I think, I don't know if I mentioned this in the podcast we were together yesterday, or the session yesterday, is I don't ever see myself being quote unquote a pastor of [00:36:00] a church, but doing extended ministry, helping people in ministry and leadership. I've, done a lot of retreats for leadership mm-hmm. For denominations because I can bring the expertise as a leadership in professional development consultants and well as a consultant to bear with the ministry context. And so it's just adding, and that's where I love actually doing the work. We have a local church, one of the larger ones, and the youth minister is a friend of mine. He also does apologetics. And so what we started to do is do his leadership group on our personality. I have a book called, why Aren't You More Like Me? Mm-hmm. And every once or twice a year, we would do retreats for those youth leaders that were 18 to 30 years of age. And in that moment I said, you know what? God has created us uniquely, but also perfectly for the assignments that he has for us in life. It's our responsibility to figure out [00:37:00] what that is. So, Dr. Pastor Randy, would get up front and he would say, next to accepting Christ. He says, I think this is one of the most important things you could learn, because every single person on this planet has a personal style. Other people call it a personality. Mm-hmm. And you are gonna bring that to bear in everything you do, every relationship you touch, every work piece, and responsibility you do. And it's not right, it's not wrong. You are uniquely created for the purposes that he has for you and the plan he has for you and the assignments he has for you and every. Personality or personal style has related strengths and stuff. Challenges, I guess. So I need to be responsible for that. I have, if I didn't have the strengths and tenacity that I was naturally born with, no way, I would've had the fortitude or resilience to overcome some of the things that this company's been through and some of the things that have been in front of me in my life. Wow. On the other hand, you don't want me to [00:38:00] be the auditor of your ministry books 'cause I'll just say it close enough because I absolutely. I might have an MBA, but I really dislike the minute details. I'm really an idea person, even though I've written 4 million words. The words are through ideas to influence people to improve their lives. Mm-hmm. To write a textbook on trigonometry is, I need him to come here and I'm gonna go to heaven quicker. I'm never gonna write. So part of those of you that are watching our ability to say no is equally important as our ability to say yes. Mm-hmm. So our responsibility as individuals, as believers say, everybody says, okay, the're great commission to share his word with other people. Okay. But where doing what for you? So that is the bigger question for us individually, to say, where does he want you to go? What does he want you to do? And you know, if I would've followed the [00:39:00] cultural pressures, I'd still be on the dairy farm. Mm-hmm. With my. Two brothers. And so my youngest brother has taken over the dairy farm and now his son is looking at taking over and his son has got a son. So now you're talking five or six generations. That's great. That's fine. But that's not what I am called to do. So my encouragement is, if you're watching this, there's two things. First of all, don't let the pressures of the past and other people's expectation drive you. Really only a Holy Spirit can lead you. Mm-hmm. And some close advisors that have wisdom and insights or even a word of knowledge for you that you wouldn't know that's driven from the Holy Spirit, not from here. The second one is that is true for you and you're a parent, or you're a significant other, or you're a partner. Why wouldn't you honor that uniqueness of the people around them as well? A friend of mine who's a believer, who was part owner of the company that I now own a hundred percent and I, but I've known him for 40 years. He, when we first got involved with this, he says, [00:40:00] Ken, my son's really. He's not gonna amount to anything. He's the laziest kid I've ever met. But what he was saying, because my friend is a driven entrepreneur like this guy at 70 works 12 hours a day, six days a week, even now, and you can't stop him. And that's just who he is. It's the fabric of who he is. He was a dairy farmer as well, so you, he's already got that in his gene. His son, who was not really lazy, was just extremely easygoing. So his style was just Dad, no chill. Just chill. Dad, whatever. You know what he is now? Pediatric doctor. Aw. So, sometimes we go there and we judge people and we say, you're not gonna melt to anything. You're lazy. You shouldn't be doing this. And in fact, God had a calling for, his name is John. To be a doctor and think about his nature. He's caring for kids, he has a heart for kids, he has the temperament for kids, he loves on them as a doctor. And then [00:41:00] gifted on that, what a better place to be now. The relationship between father and son have never been better as part of it. You know, as you think about this, how can we create a space, a safe space for individuals like you or me to go on this journey of discovery with me, not because of what I say or don't say, but together so that I can help you realize your potential. And one of the things that is, um, I do still kind of get a little miffed at how Christians can put other people down for certain reasons. Absolutely. Or just people in general. I had a point, and now it's gone. It'll come back to me here in a moment. But part of this is that. We don't want to be judging people about their direction and putting them down for certain directions. Mm-hmm. Because now what we're doing is we're spilling our fear into their space. The reality is the enemy will bring people around you to discount you. We even talked about that yesterday in [00:42:00] the, Christian business owners call. Mm-hmm. Is that the enemy wants to discount your worth. Yes. If I go, I have zero people says, Ken, you still get nervous speaking in front of groups. I says, never. Never. If it's a thousand people, 2000 people, 3000 people, I love it. I'm energized. You ever get nervous? Getting on a show? Never does not happen. However, if I'm asked to preach in front of a church, then the worthiness, the enemy comes after me and says, Ken, do you know who you are? What gives you the right to speak about Christ's righteousness in front of these people? And so my, so I want to call it wisdom mm-hmm. To individuals, is that the enemy wants to discount that, there's a big difference between confidence and arrogance is that we wanna be confident in who he is. And yes, he has asked me to share his word with others in the context, and I've done preaching for people online and in services at churches, [00:43:00] and then also led, you know, Ministries through our work and leadership and personality and wellness and all these things. But I'm still working on this thing where the enemy wants to attack this. Who do you think you are? Hmm. When he called out Moses, when Moses says, well, I'm not equipped for this. We use the, scripture from Gideon. I'm the weakest of my clan. Why? Why choose my me? And I started to think about that. Think about all the people that God chose. To lead and be in front. Half of them are murderers. I mean, I'm being demonstrative, but Right. So, hello. That didn't exclude them. Then you have this Pharisee who is killing Christians on the weekend, who wrote nearly half of the New Testament. Absolutely. What are you talking about? Because he's trying to demonstrate to you, me and everybody watching the transformational nature of his spirit and that there is nothing that's not [00:44:00] possible if you're in his will and following it. I will never, in spite of all, like you were talking off air about these, I'll call it new age kind of positive thinking stuff. Mm-hmm. I will never be a basketball player. It's just not gonna Me neither. At five nine. It is not gonna happen. It's just, I can have all the goals in the world. I can visualize all I want. It's just not going to happen. But if it's in the context of his will, and here's the other responsibility. As believers, it's your responsibility to find out what that will is. Where does he want you to go? And again, to be really careful, be really cautious to only get feedback from those people who are trusted advisors that know the spirit. Oh, I know what I was gonna say earlier is my family, when I decided to leave my sales job to start my own sales training, even then my parents said, my dad said to me, why would you leave a company that gives you a free [00:45:00] car? And then they give you lunches. Two, what a what an idiot you are to leave that job, to start this training business. Well, that company, by the way, three or four years later, went bankrupt. So that was kind of a little get back at your dad moment there. And they sort of fine. But that's how people are thinking. They're well-meaning they're trying to protect you. But don't absorb their fear. Don't let their doubt come into your space. Sometimes you have to be extremely guarded about I'll call it the unbelief of others around you. When Jesus didn't chastise the disciples very often, but he chastised them about fear in the boat and the water. Mm-hmm. But he also chastised their unbelief when they couldn't heal the crippled individual who was come on, help me with the word Diana. Possessed. And they said, what? Why couldn't we cast out the devil? They said, because of your unbelief. So [00:46:00] sometimes we need to make sure that we guard ourselves and be around those people that really are there with us, Diana, on that side, I'm getting a little preachy now instead of just a podcast on those. I love it. I love it. But my, and we talk a lot about boundaries that you have to have boundaries, physical boundaries, as well as mental boundaries. Who are you hanging out with? Who are you allowing to influence you? That's super important. Oh, and in fact, I was talking about this on another, podcast just this morning that I was on, is that, the research is clear who you associate with matters, and the proof is, is that your five closest associates will be the highest level of influence. In other words, if we look at your five closest friends, I can almost predict. With certainty what you are going to be like, how you're gonna think, how you're going to act, because you're constantly influencing each other. Now I remember, and I know you're almost getting close to the end of the show, but one of my [00:47:00] colleagues, not a believer, but very wise guy, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, one of the top coaches in the world, wrote the book Triggers and What Got you here won't get you there. And I was at an invite only event in New York with him and 20 or 30 other people in the coaching industry. And one of the things he stated, and this is so true, especially people with trauma and they have family, is that a lot of times you want to go to a new level. So Diana, you're going to a new level, you're doing the podcast, you're doing this ministry, you're growing, I'm growing. Your past, the people that you grew up in high school or the people that know you or your family, they wanna keep you where you were. They don't want to you to go where you're going. So an example is when I got my doctorate degree, we had a family dinner and it was kind of a celebration. And one of my family members said to me with almost with the stain, we are never calling you doctor. Hmm. And part of it is that they knew me for who I was 30 years ago. [00:48:00] And then of course I left the farm. I went on my own started to develop relationships and connections with amazing people around the world. Is that some, not that I'm better than them, but I am different. And so I don't really share what I do with my family members. And that's what Marshall was teaching in his group is that sometimes who you become doesn't fit the people that you used to hang out with. It doesn't mean you don't hang out with them. You just limit that you are being with your family. Diana, what are you doing? He says, well, I'm doing ministry work and I'm running a podcast and just really helping people to overcome trauma. And that's it. That's all it's done. We don't talk about the great people we met or 'cause what happens is you're seen as being arrogant and who do you think you are rather than colleagues where you're just sharing your excitement about this growth. Oh yeah. I had relatives come up to me 'cause they heard me, I was a guest on somebody else's podcast. Oh, she can't do that. You know, she's gonna hurt somebody. She's not a licensed counselor. She's not this, she's not that. [00:49:00] And I have had training. I get considerable training. I'm not a licensed counselor, but the program that I follow, was written by a trauma counselor and a theology professor. So that's called Mending the Soul, by the way. Mm-hmm. Anyway, yeah, they're definitely, we're all already people telling me, well, you shouldn't be doing that. Who are you? You're not some, super professional girl. You're just Diana, you're just an abuse survivor. That's all you are kind of thing. So, yeah. Well, what happens a lot of times is envy can come in, jealousy can come in. They wanna still contain you and me to who we were, but it's also still their perception is true with, one of my family members where, they go on, oh, you, you're always this person that talks too much. That's what my dad said to me when I was a teenager. And of course he was putting me down for my style and what I do. And it was interesting because even though he [00:50:00] says, Ken, you talk too much and put me down for my style. I was the person that asked to be m Mc of banquets when I was 16 and 17 years of age because I would be quick on my feet, I'd be able to have a responsiveness. And I also took. The responsibility of being an mc of a banquet. Seriously, because have you ever been to these banquets that's run by volunteers where you have just a terrible mc and they ruin the night? Oh yeah. Well, the opposite. I said, no. I take this as a profession. Mm-hmm. And recently, interesting enough, in spite of sort of the history, my dad has a group called The Pioneers, which are elderly people have been in our community for, 60, 70, 80, 90 years. And they asked me to be the mc. And so then I've done it for two years. They won't hold it this year. And people come and said, how are you able to do that? Because the people that were doing it before were on the board. They were, dementia was already setting in and they were trying to lead this banquet and it was just a [00:51:00] disaster, nice people. But they were way out of their element and they shouldn't have been MCing it. Here's a family trying to contain, you said, who do you think you are? Put you down for talking yet. It's my profession. It's what I do. I've been paid or have conducted 3000 presentations around the world in the last 32 years. Hello? What? Like, help me out here and just like your family, my dad is, just really unsure about what I really do. If I say I'm doing some speaking or training for like Chrysler, well, he gets that, but producing psychological tools and assessments and all the other work, like we were talking around purpose. No, they, they wouldn't get it. So part of, you know, all of that story from both of us for the viewers and listeners is that it's okay to move on, but also you don't have to share your new life with your old life. Yeah. And that you can be that person for them, but guard your [00:52:00] future sort of, expounding about what you're gonna do and writing these books and creating these e-course and all that kind of stuff, they don't care. They're not there. So it's interesting because my wife and I, when we go to family events we talk about emotional intelligence and we talk about interpersonal intelligence and we talk about self-awareness. But one of the things we do at family events, we, we have a game. We say, could we go all night with 20 people in the room with three hours a time? We're not a single person will ask us a question about us and we can do it multiple times. So we go to an event and Diana, how are you doing and what's new at the ministry? And, how's the family doing? And I heard you went on this trip, a gifted conversationalist is a person who asks questions, right? But what we note is that nobody asks myself or my wife a question. Now, there's the odd occasion where it does occur. It does happen, but it's extremely [00:53:00] rare. So people like to talk about themselves. So we might say, well listen, we're thinking about going to Hawaii. Oh, we went to Hawaii two years ago and we're over here. And all of a sudden they're telling a story, which is all about being self-centered about their trip to Hawaii two years ago. And we just shared what, where we're going to Hawaii. They didn't ask about where you're going, when you're going, who's going? No. They went on to their own. This is a conversational skillset that most of the population does not have. And by the way, for those of you watching play the game. Go out there and, don't talk about yourself. If somebody talks about something, make sure you respond to it, but then transition back to a question and see if you can go all night without anybody asking a question about yourself. And then here's the other one. Don't be offended by it. Give it up. Offense is a choice. You know, we talked about trauma and we talked about forgiveness, but being offended is also a choice. Mm-hmm. Dr. David's Burn's work around, trauma, if you've ever read his book feel good [00:54:00] is, I mean, it's got about 500 pages at four point font. Is that my response is always a choice. Yes. And even Dr. Gottman in his work around relationships is that once I get over 100 beats per minute non-athletic, I'm no longer rational. Well, that's where we have trauma. We have abuse, we have crazy things that happen. One of our number one constituents, we serve as law enforcement. So, Dr. Anderson, who founded the company, was a criminology professor. And then one of my co-authors, Dr. Mitch dti, teaches law enforcement officers emotional intelligence. What's the most dangerous situation for law enforcement to go into domestic dispute? Yes. Why? Because people are irrational. Mm-hmm. So I've let myself get ramped up. I'm now biologically I'm no longer in control of my emotions. Mm-hmm. And now I will say and do things that will regret. Now I'm completely [00:55:00] outta control. I mean, there was this situation that happened in Palm Springs a couple, two, three years ago where there was abusive situation carrying on. The officers broke up, the couple started to contain him, and then she got a gun out and killed both officers. Oh. So that's why officers in these environments, they said you have to watch your back because it's completely. Unpredictable as part of it. So I mean, there's obviously lots of things that we've covered today in the show and we've gone for our 55 minutes. Anything else, Diana, that you wanted to maybe poke your head into before we close? Well, we could go down a whole bunch of rabbit trails on a lot of things that you said. You said so many great nuggets. But maybe for our listeners, perhaps. Give like a list of actionable things that they can do right now. Now just before I do it, so that we don't miss you, I have a gift for everybody. Yes. And [00:56:00] so I'm gonna give you access to the e-copy, Of my the Quest for Purpose book in the get that is go to my speaker site, which is Ken Keys, K-E-N-K-E-I s.com/faithful. You'll in that hidden URL and of course you'll be able to put it in the show notes, Diana as well. Mm-hmm. Is that you'll be able to go there and then download the e version of the book. What I am sometimes shocked at is that I give away this book is that the amount of people who don't. Opt in to get the book. It is a roadmap, a step-by-step process to get clear about who and what and where, and what you should be doing in your life and all components. And now it's gonna take work, it's gonna take time, but where are you gonna be in six months if you don't do it? So, uh, it's there. I spent six months going through this process with my coach, Mike McManus, you know, driving three hours each way when it wasn't pertinent. So when I think about actionable steps, [00:57:00] and you think about people's lives, first of all, if you don't have a purpose in life, then your purpose is to find your purpose. And so that becomes the focus, rather than trying to say, I better be doing this, or I just take a breath. Allow yourself time and space. I've noticed that the Holy Spirit is never frantic. He is on time and he is moving forward, but he is never Fran frantic. And so, chaos is not from him. So just be peaceful, be quiet, and start paying attention and asking yourself this question, if you are doing what you're doing right now in all contexts of your life 20 years from now, is that okay? And if you say no, then that obviously infers change. So what is it that you're gonna move towards? Don't freak out. Don't try to do it all. I mean, if I'm trying to be a marathon runner this morning and then I said, I'm gonna run and do a marathon tonight, I'm gonna be dead. Just, I gotta [00:58:00] train for it. Yep. So life is the same way. The other one is for us and our resources, is that there's all different ways to get to clarity. So we have assessments and they're all learning assessments. So a values assessment, a self-worth assessment, a personality assessment we have a self-worth one I might have mentioned that already. And so all of those become puzzle pieces to create the clarity. The other one, Diana, is, is get a group that's gonna support you, look around and don't judge the five closest friend, but say are the five closest friends in a space that are gonna help you to go where you need to go. And sometimes one of my mentors used to say, you know what, Ken? Sometimes you need to fire clients. He says, why? He says, you've outgrown them. The client that you're serving now is not the client that you started with five years ago. So you know, like my fees and what I do is completely different than what it was 15 years ago. So [00:59:00] now start paying attention to that. And then the other thing is, is that life takes effort. If you get finish watching the show and do nothing and do no action steps, then you're gonna have the same thing tomorrow. So what are the steps that you can take? Start moving towards it, download the book. It's got a complete roadmap. And the other thing we'll make sure that my contact information is there, Diana, is that if people have questions, reach out, I'll respond as, as best as I can in the time that's allotted there. But I'll respond to you to be able to say, Hey, how can we help you or call you and your ministry? Mm-hmm. And some of the coaching that is available there. So that'll get you started. And again, don't try to do it all overnight. Just take one step at a time. The research shows is that if you try to three things at wants to change it, you have about a 15% likelihood of implementing it and a 75% success rate if it's just one thing. So one thing at a time, progress forward and keep listening to Diana's podcast. [01:00:00] And that should be the other step that they do too. Right. Wow, this was so awesome. I cannot wait to read that book and I hope that our listeners will download the book and get busy reading it and putting those things into practice. We will probably have to have you back again in the future because I can just tell you have so much more to share with us to help anytime to be able to serve and support and, you know, go granular in some of these other areas that we can talk about. For sure, anytime, Diana, So today, just choose one thing, one small thing to get you closer to your healing goals. God bless. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org [01:01:00] where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

Did you know: Each position in your practice should contribute toward the practice's goals? Tiff and Kristy break down why each position should have a vision and specific metrics (starting at the job description), and how together, alongside all the other positions, they work toward the greater good of the practice. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here today. I am always excited to be here today you guys I love podcasting I really really do and I love podcasting with other people more than solo and I get to pull consultants in and Britt from HR Headquarters over there HQ and Eve from marketing like I get to pull in just the most fun people from our team to Just double up and get some time with Kristy   I've got you today and this is like our special time together and I just love it. So, and Kristy, I put you specifically at the end of my podcasting day. I hope you noticed that not just because of timing, but because you bring a sense of calm to my life and podcasting with you, not to say that it's not easy with anyone else on our team, but you really like, it's just so easy. You bring a sense of calm and ease. And I was like, that's what I want to end my day with. So thank you for.   opening up your schedule to me and for being here today, Kristy, how are you?   DAT Kristy (00:59) Good, absolutely. I love it too. I mean, we were just talking the other day because we don't get much time together and so I know we look forward to this time. now that I know you put me at the end of the day on purpose, I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's a good way to end the day.   The Dental A Team (01:13) Surprise!   Good. Well, I'm glad. know Mondays are busy for you. Our team does, we do meeting Mondays and so it gets a little jam packed, but it's nice because we get it. I feel like we get all of that admin stuff out of the way and we get aligned on actions we need to take for the week kind of all together on the same day. And then we just spearhead our week ready to go. Well, Kristy, ⁓ today is exciting. I   I'm gonna actually pull in what we were just talking about. you guys, you guys know, avid listeners, you guys have been here. We've been doing this podcast for a really long time, you guys, and if you have ideas on things that you want to hear, please send them in because our little brains over here are just thinking of all of these things. Sometimes they feel like, did we just record this? It's like this content sounds so similar to something else we've talked about. And so I don't know how to label this one.   But I want you guys to know we are going to chat today a little bit about job descriptions. And this is something that we find incredibly important. So we talk about it a lot. So I want to drive that home. They are so important. And Kristy, something that I recently recorded a podcast with Brittany. And something we talked about, part of that leadership skill, was being able to give direction to the team to execute decisions.   as a leader, being able to execute decisions, being decisive and having execution as leadership, but also gifting that to the team. And we talked about the vision of the practice, kind of where the company's going and the leader, the owner, being able to utilize that for the culture of the company. But I kind of think right now, these job descriptions are the vision per position.   It gives us our heading so that within my position in the practice or the organization, I can say yes, no, maybe, yes, this is the right decision right now for the company. And it brings about some clarity for everyone. Kristy, you, what do you think?   DAT Kristy (03:28) Yeah, I love that you mentioned that because for so long, think we've all understood that job descriptions should have duties, right? I truly am a fan of duties versus titles, but also I think honing in on the other aspect of, think the duties, let me step back. The duties tell us what we're responsible for, but I think bringing in the other aspect   tells us how the person should behave. And so I think they go hand in hand. And I think oftentimes we miss that other piece of it and then we get frustrated when we don't hire that person.   The Dental A Team (04:11) Yeah, I agree.   in ⁓ a layer on top of that, you mentioned job duties and kind of how to behave. But even within that ⁓ what piece, the job duties, the clarification on the job duties, if I know that my job, my goal of my position is to have the schedule full, maybe I'm a schedule coordinator, and my number one metric is 90 % full on hygiene for the next five days,   80 % full doctor, like whatever that metric is. If I know that's my metric, then I think, my gosh, this one patient, my how-to says confirmations. And step one is text message, email, text message, email, but I know this person is 85 years old and they're not getting these text messages. I don't have to question, do I call this patient? My job, my goal is to get that patient here for that appointment, no matter what that means looks like.   So I think that vision and that ⁓ very clear cut, this is what the metric is of your position. I sitting in that scheduling coordinator position can say, Julie, at 85, I'm just gonna call her. I'm not gonna mess with the text messages and wait until three days before if I know she needs a call and we need to confirm her right. Like I have this information, but we often get asked, Kristy, I think.   by different team members that they're like, well, can I do this? I'm like, well, does it get you to your goal? Is it a part of what gets the practice to our goals? Heck yeah, I think that's a great idea. It gives you the space to be creative, to get to the results that you need to get to, that are set as parameters because you know what you're driving towards.   DAT Kristy (05:58) Yeah, you said that so well. So again, I'm with you. It's not just the duties and how we behave and perform them. But like you said, then we can tie it to what metrics am I responsible for? And one other piece behind that is painting the clarity. If it's 90 % reappointment rate or, you know, whatever metric I am responsible for. Now, what system   comes behind that metric if it's not where I want it to be, right? So then I can pull up the system and say, hey, am I not working the system properly or do I need to find a new system because our system's not working any longer to get the result we want?   The Dental A Team (06:45) for sure and that's where teams come to us, or office managers, and they're like, my team has no accountability, how do I hold them accountable? Or how do I get my team to hold themselves accountable? How do I get them to own their jobs? It's really hard to own something if you don't have complete clarity around that goal that you're working towards. And so having those smart goals with those metrics tied to them, Kristy, like you just said, allows that person then, like you've said, to work backwards from the result to see   What did I do that got the result? Because anything you do, I literally just said it this morning, I say it all the time, even consistently being inconsistent is going to get you a result. Consistently doing anything will get you the result. And if your consistency lies in inconsistently, I'm always inconsistent, you're going to get a result. So knowing what your target result is in comparison to the result that you got allows you to backtrack and say,   DAT Kristy (07:25) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (07:41) Was I inconsistent in my utilization of my systems? Or is the system just flawed and I need to reinvent that wheel? Totally fine too, but it allows the space for that. And Kristy, the way you said it was it allows the person holding that metric to see it themselves and can to it, which takes training and it takes consistency from leadership to constantly point back to the metrics, to constantly be like, okay, ⁓ what   what is your metric, your standard, and then what did you reach? And when there's questions that come up like, Kristy, like, do I call this lady? You're like, well, what is your metric? Does it get you there? And I think that consistency is that accountability piece that people are lacking.   DAT Kristy (08:27) Yeah, I agree with you. ⁓ Just like you said, it's very easy once we've painted that clarity and we have understanding also for the team to report back to you. You shouldn't have to ask. But I also would say don't just report back. Report back and let them know your trend because maybe it is 90 % reappointment rate that we're looking at. ⁓ Literally, I was just on with an office that was   It's almost embarrassing to say they haven't looked at their rates for reappointment. She's like 50 some percent and I'm like, yeah, that could be a problem, right? ⁓ Yeah, let's not focus on 50. Let's talk that the goal is 90 and let's start talking about your trend, right? So even if I'm reporting it talk about your trend where were you and where are we going? And then I also like to say with that TIF is recognize what's working well and   reinforce the good. gets reinforced gets repeated, right? And then get team talking about what they will do to overcome any opportunities if we're not at the mark we want.   The Dental A Team (09:36) Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. you just, you saying that about the practice, I'm like, my gosh, that's fantastic. Like 50%, that's not fantastic, but look at how much space there is to create something different. Like that's really freaking cool because practices come in and they're like, I don't know what to do. And I don't know why it's this way. And I just need this. And it's like, this is so cool because there are spaces.   that are really, really simple to tackle that you just didn't uncover yet. And we get to come in and help uncover those. So it's like 50 % reappointment rate. That's fantastic because now we can implement two to three daily actions that severely change the projection in a company that you may have come to us thinking, and I don't know this client, I don't know what she or he was thinking like, but they may have been thinking like, my hands are tied, what do I do?   how do I get more patients? I need more new patients. I hear that all the time and I'm like, well, what about the patients we have? It's so cool. So you just got me really excited about that. So I'm like, holy cow, I can't wait to hear these results. It's gonna be fantastic. But that's case in point. There's a couple of people that probably need that metric, right? A hygienist, hygiene team and scheduling coordinators, like they need these metrics because now they understand what their purpose is in the company and how they can contribute to the overall goals.   DAT Kristy (10:40) Yeah.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (11:02) Many doctors, I think Kristy, you and I both come across this, many doctors are really afraid, or business owners in general, to talk goals. And I think the piece that gets missed is that goals drive the courage to push forward in life. Without a goal, without a drive, we're just complacent. And so not talking about them and not talking about how   each position can contribute towards those goals, I think is actually a disservice and holding people back.   DAT Kristy (11:39) Yeah, I agree with you, Tiff. think a lot of times people get stuck because goals are related to a lot of times in dentistry, monetary amounts, right? But truly, it's no different than us at home. We have a checkbook and we have a bank account and we have standard bills that we have to pay. And it's not that we have to get nitty gritty on that stuff, but we all have to understand there's a cost of doing business unless we're a   not-for-profit organization, you know? And so again, I love ⁓ how you and Kiera talk about the metrics aren't to beat ourselves up, right? It's not a stick to beat ourselves up with. It truly is just a measure of how healthy we're getting our patients. And the minute that we really get transparent about the numbers and what they mean and relate it to just like patient health and practice health, I mean, we always talk about getting our patients healthy.   What about talking about a healthy practice too, right? And we need to let team know just because, I mean, we hear it every day as consultants, a practice could do $6 million and I could have another practice that does a million and the 6 million inevitably people might think is more healthy than a million and truly that's not the case. So we need to educate our teams and let them know those numbers mean more.   And ⁓ truly it's a reflection of how healthy our patients are and how healthy the practice is.   The Dental A Team (13:14) Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. And your individual metrics then add up to those results. So those of you who are building out the job descriptions, like yes, you need like a how-to, we need to know what those systems and protocols are. But separate from that, they need a heading. They need to know how do I show up? It's like, what are our core values? How do I show up in this position? If we've got, I don't know, a check-in spot, right? We've got a patient coordinator who's at check-in.   DAT Kristy (13:19) Thank you.   The Dental A Team (13:40) and her job description does not say you sit up straight, you smile, and you greet patients with eye contact as soon as they walk in, you can't complain when she's got her head down on the computer or she's got her cell phone and patients are walking in and they're not being greeted. So get nitty gritty on those spaces because that's easy to achieve, right? If she reads that or he reads that, it's like, ⁓ that's the expectation, that's how I'll show up. And then now that feeds into your reschedule rate.   DAT Kristy (13:49) I can't.   The Dental A Team (14:09) Right? Patients are like, heck yeah, I'm coming back. I love seeing Sonia up front. Like it just all feeds into one another. So I think breaking that down into what is this position accomplishing for my practice within the goals that we have set. So if this is my vision, why do I have this position? Why do I have a scheduling coordinator? Why do I have a dental assistant? And then some pieces I think that I promised Kristy we would talk about some positions that you don't always think about. Right? So like sterile tech.   come on guys, there are so many sterile technicians running around that don't know what the heck they're supposed to be doing, there's no job description for a sterile tech and we just kind of run in the mill, let them figure it out, that's the dental way. So like sterile tech or, Kristy, one I know is really big right now is virtual assistants and I have a client who has an entire team of virtual assistants and Kristy, how important is it for the metrics?   the job description ⁓ just in the VA space, so for the VAs, but how important is it for the team to have that VA job description too and know what they can count on those people for?   DAT Kristy (15:21) ⁓ 100%. ⁓ The cool part with it too, Tiff, I mean, yeah, they need to know the expectations of what's being handled so they can hold them accountable just as any other team member, right? But also, I love, especially ⁓ offices where we're looking to develop leadership, when you have in an OM or a practice administrator, if you have a virtual assistant, what if...   great opportunity for them to work with somebody to develop them, right? And you're literally paying them to be there and do a service, but yet your leadership team or developing leadership team can help them be accountable to the metrics, right, that the virtual assistant is there for.   The Dental A Team (16:09) Yeah.   Yeah, absolutely agree. I have a practice that was like, well, like, I know they're doing insurance verification. I'm like, cool. Well, one, how far out are they supposed to be? Like, what's the volume of insurance verifications they're doing? Because we've got some shifts in the front office. Could they take on calling on unpaid insurance claims? And they were like, I don't know. haven't. I have no idea what their time is like. And I haven't talked to them in weeks. I was like, ⁓ hold the phone. I'm going to I got to pick myself up off the floor real quick.   Who's holding these people accountable? You've got to treat them just the same as you would if they were in your practice. And I think that's multifaceted. I have a practice who does really, really well with a couple of each spectrum. But one in particular does really well with virtual assistants because they create them to be part of the team. The virtual assistants do so much as to even show up for Daily Huddle. They're there with them. We have virtual assistants that show up for Daily Huddle. We know our VAs.   practices that it's just like, they're doing this thing and they think of them as a separate entity. I think the VAs get lost. I think the sterile techs get lost. The sterile techs of the world are just lost in our dental field. And they're looking for that direction and they're looking for that drive. I think our VA, right, we've got a newly onboarded one as well, but our VA who just celebrated six months with us, I found out, he has incredible direction in his position.   And I see that he finds fulfillment in the things that he does for our company. And that's really cool to watch and to see. I know we get fulfillment. It's very easy to get fulfillment as a consultant. Like we get to work hands-on with the clients every day. Same as a dental practice, you guys get to see the changes you're making in the patient's mouths, right? And in their daily lives, you know? So then to find metrics where it's like, no, even as a virtual assistant, even as an onboarded,   outsourced billing company, like these are the metrics that are going to show us that you're actually adding incredible value to our team. And how cool is that to have that heading to be like, I get to go to work every day and I get to help this team do better for their community. And that's the piece that I just feel like is missing in a lot of different spaces.   DAT Kristy (18:15) Yeah.   Yeah, I love that you say that, Tiff, because a lot of, I mean, we're familiar, probably the most popular one is in the insurance realm, right? And so I know even a lot of the virtual companies will set up time to meet with the offices weekly, right? And so again, for the OM or the practice administrator, I'm like, how often are you on those? Not very often. I'm like, man, what a missed opportunity, right? Again, to develop your leadership and share with them.   What's your expectations? We want zero claims over 90 days. And again, the metrics aren't to beat ourselves up. If it's not there, how fun to celebrate when, just like the re-care, right? When they hit 60%, we're gonna be celebrating because one little change, right? But painting that clarity, where are we going? What's my expectation? And then getting the team's commitment into how can we...   The Dental A Team (19:17) massive.   DAT Kristy (19:27) improve this, right? But I think you also mentioned something earlier, even outside of the virtual assistant realm, but all of our team members, how often are we meeting with them? And how often are we ⁓ taking the time away from the business to grow and develop them? Right? And review their metrics. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (19:45) Yeah, massive.   Yeah, and how do you do that if you don't know what you're reviewing? Like, how do you do that if you don't know what their accountabilities are? And how do you help grow someone? know one of the big pieces of leadership that we train on is being able to develop people and giving them a growth plan. And I remember being asked, oh my gosh, I don't even know. I was probably like 28, I don't know, 27. I might.   boss, my office manager pulls me into the office for my one-on-one and she's like, well, where do you see yourself in five years? And I was like, I don't know. Like I think my only, that could be your position. Like what, I don't know what, I don't know what that means, right? Because in those positions in the practice, they don't know. They don't know what's possible, right? Unless they've been there before.   There may be somebody who's maybe worked in another practice and she managed or worked in another practice and he saw this great manager he aspires to be, but most of the time we don't know. And so providing that growth plan, even within the job description of these are the metrics that I get to help grow those. So I can find growth and fulfillment within my own position because I'm growing the practice and growing these metrics. I don't need to take your job.   DAT Kristy (20:45) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (21:03) I can be happy and satisfied in my own because it's written out for me and we're talking about it in the one-on-ones. We're seeing how, you know, where's my goal and how far away am I? Just the same as we're seeing the trends and everything else. So Kristy, I totally agree. Really my 28 year old brain would have been like, this is amazing if it had been like, here's some things that I see, you know? And otherwise I'm like, I don't know. Like how do I answer that? You know?   DAT Kristy (21:29) Yeah. Well,   and to your point, Tiff, with that being said, don't forget to rope in your virtual assistants and have those conversations with them too. Because I think, like you mentioned earlier, the practices that we see ⁓ truly utilizing virtual assistants well are incorporating them, right? They're sharing the expectation, but they're also giving them that feedback and they're treating them like a team member, you know? So if you guys are doing   a bonus system, don't forget your virtual assistants or your sterile techs, right? Include them. They're a huge part of the practice. So.   The Dental A Team (22:08) Yeah, yeah, and to your point, the team that I referenced that does really well with the virtual assistants, the virtual assistant that now does a lot of their scheduling started as insurance verifications and they grew her and she learned the schedule, she listened to the team on calls, they groomed her into that position so that she could take it on because she wanted growth. So I agree, I agree. So gosh, Kristy, this one became really, really fun. Thank you.   for that and taking that journey. And you guys, hope that there are some amazing tidbits that you're able to pick up from here. The biggest one is know your vision, know your goals. Like where is your practice heading so that you can then dial in where is each position heading within those goals. That's gonna be massive. So job descriptions, yes, we can talk about job descriptions all the time. Go Google it on our page, like search it. You're gonna find a million of them. The big point today is the metrics. Like what are these jobs providing?   towards your goal, what's inspiring them to do their work every day, and how are you talking about it and communicating it with them. So, Kristy, thank you so much. I love taking these journeys, and you made this really fun. I appreciate you today, and always every day. Yeah.   DAT Kristy (23:20) Thank you. Thank   you. Always back at you.   The Dental A Team (23:24) Thank   you, thank you. you guys, Kristy's always here for the fun, just expanding on what we're even talking about stuff.   for her name on these podcasts. You will never be disappointed. You're always gonna love them. And as always, leave us a five star review. We'd love to hear what you think and we'd love to hear anything that you guys have in addition to what we talked about. We know we don't know it all. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com.   You can reach us there and we cannot wait to hear from you guys until next time  

Hey HBs! Welcome to day 2 of our podiversary celebration! We're doing Kink Watch, Rabbit Hole Watch, and WOULD YOU RATHER!!!!!!! This Friday on Patreon and our Apple Podcast subscription, Sabrina is telling us all about their most recent EJ Russell rabbit hole! They were on the lookout for less common monster romance and couldn't stop once they found EJ's cozy MM monster romance. Be sure to check out our AMAZING episode sponsor: THE SPITE DATE by Pippa Grant! The Spite Date is a riotously fun opposites attract romance featuring a golden retriever celebrity who needs to get out of his own way, a woman trying to live her best life even if she's not sure exactly how to do that, and a series of plans gone very, very wrong. It stands alone and comes with a sweetly satisfying happily ever after. Curious about the ridiculous faces we make? Subscribe and watch us on YOUTUBE! Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail  Follow our socials:  Instagram @heavingbosoms | Tiktok @heaving_bosoms | Bluesky: @heavingbosoms.com | Threads: @heavingbosoms   Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz  Art: Author Kate Prior The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part 2 of podcast guest Dr. Lauryn Brunclik (of She Slays the Day podcast fame) and her conversation with Kiera. In this follow-up to Becoming Business Savvy with a Clinician-First Mindset, the pair discusses seeking other revenue streams to obtain financial freedom. The chat includes fixing your pricing structure, living below your means, understanding the spender and saver mindsets, time management, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera and welcome back to part two of my chat. If you liked part one, you are going to absolutely love this. I am so excited and I can't wait to dive right in.   Kiera Dent (00:10) Lauryn, I'm very curious. Like you've talked about it at length. Like what do people do? Like what's the how, how do we get into this?   How do we have multiple streams because agreed all eggs in one basket? gosh. It's, ⁓ to me, that's like just a ticking time bomb. Like one bad day, one bad patient, one bad procedure. Like it's just going to explode because you're sitting like you're sitting on the edge of fear all the time to where you are in like cortisol adrenaline, like you are pumping. And then what you do is you go into complete shutdown because you can't handle it anymore. So your body and your system literally like just shuts down on you. You become apathetic to life.   Dr. Lauryn B (00:23) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (00:44) things aren't exciting for you anymore. You become very numb to walking through the world. And it's like, I feel like the world of color goes into very like gray. It's very subtle. It's like, it's, there's no, there's no life left. It's just, are living life, but you're not actually being and living day in, out. So what are some tacticals? Like I'm so curious. I love to hear that.   Dr. Lauryn B (01:04) Well, so,   I mean, ultimately what you have to, I'm no cashflow expert. My husband would like laugh, not, he wouldn't laugh. He'd just be like, what's she gonna say right now? So like cashflow will multiply the more you start putting your money to work, okay? So it's very, very, step one is simple. It's exactly what you said. You have to have cashflow coming from your clinic.   Kiera Dent (01:14) okay.   Dr. Lauryn B (01:33) You have to. Like, you need to spend less money than you are bringing in. Okay?   Kiera Dent (01:42) Ooh, love that. Ding, ding. All right, great. Got it, team. Got it all.   Dr. Lauryn B (01:45) Like, so it's   it's simple. what did you say? Like you said, there's only three ways to make it happen. Like lower your overhead. Yep. Yep. See more people. Yep.   Kiera Dent (01:50) There are, either cut your costs, increase what you're producing. like for how many patients you're seeing and   or collections, because a lot of times you're producing enough, but we're not collecting the money that we're actually producing. that then costs, people are have no money. And I'm like, you have 500,000 sitting in your AR that's not collected. So you actually have money. You just have a broken system of how to collect it. And to your point, my husband said this very early on when I started that company, he said,   I care, don't lose money. He was like, yeah, I'm not going to give you any rules, any parameters. He's like, just don't lose money because that's going to cause a lot of strain on us. And I thought about that a lot. It's like, ⁓ I guess that's a great, a great plan. Like it's really been a good thought for me. But it's like, if you are going to lose money on having a business, go be an associate for someone else. Like it's a hobby at that point. It's not a business. So I'm like, if you're not going to have your business make money for you, like truly no judgment.   Dr. Lauryn B (02:24) Thanks, husband.   Yes.   Kiera Dent (02:44) go honestly be an associate, go work for someone else so you're taking home a paycheck. When owners are working for themselves and making less than they are as an associate, I'm like, we have a big problem here. And now you're mad because you got way more problems. You can't just clock in, clock out and leave for the day. And I'm like, that's actually not a business. That's a hobby. And it's a bad hobby. You have no freedom. No, it's delusional. No.   Dr. Lauryn B (02:57) Mm-hmm.   And they're like, but I have the freedom when I'm the owner. You don't have freedom? can't afford a vacation. what? You have   no freedom.   Kiera Dent (03:11) Stop lying to yourself just because you own a business. People are like, I wanted this texture, have more time. And I'm like, yeah, tell me how that's going for you. Probably not great. All right, so we gotta have a business that actually cash flows. Simple stuff.   Dr. Lauryn B (03:16) How's that working for you? Yeah.   Yes, so step   one is very simple, but not is you have to fix the pricing structure, the collections, your payroll blow. You need to look at the profit margins of your clinic. Very easy, very difficult, but very easy.   Kiera Dent (03:37) And they're   industry specific too. I don't know how it is in chiropractic, but I know in like dentistry, we say right now, even with all the things like I want 30%, we're talking all things, fringe benefits, 401k. Like 30 % for payroll, 25 to 30 is about average. And we aim for, I don't know how it is in chiropractic, but I aim for a 50%, not including doctor pay, 50 % overhead in dental practices, 30 % of doctor pay, because I'm like, that's what you're gonna get paid as an associate. It's like, let's at least pay you that.   Dr. Lauryn B (03:45) No, that's pretty yeah, that's pretty healthy. ⁓   Kiera Dent (04:04) And then hopefully we've got a 20 % profit, but that profit debt services click in and that's a real fun zone and taxes. Like I love it. No, you're not getting your W two people are not taking taxes out. You own this business. All that money comes to you. So do not get trapped in that like tax trap. but like, like that's a very simple formula and you look, what is my supplies? What are my rent? Like, what are all those things? And if you figure out the benchmarks, then you know, which one am I bleeding money on quickly fix that hole. So we stopped bleeding it again.   It seems so hard. And you and I are on the other side of that equation saying, no, actually it's like real simple. You just look at it real quick, figure out what it is. You can build your practice to support whatever numbers you need, or we cut. Usually it's easier to increase production and collections than it is to cut. But a lot of people are just overspending in ridiculous ways that I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like I have a practice, I looked at their numbers. They shouldn't giggle. I did giggle, because I was shocked. They're like, here, we have no money.   And I was like, all right, send me your P &L. Let's take a look at it. So I did. Year to date, they produced 528,000. So they're doing about 85,000 per month is what I calculated when I ran the numbers. But when I looked at their take-home pay, they're taking home, so it's 528. I'm super happy for them. Like don't, there's no judgment on that. They're taking home 250,000 of that 528 is going to the doctor, which again, I'm happy that they're taking home the money. But what's happening is the practice is not producing enough for that.   They're running all their kids through it. They're running their cars through it. They're running everything through it, which again is not a bad thing. But if you don't have cash in your business to hire people, I was like, we're a little off on the percentages.   Dr. Lauryn B (05:37) Yeah. One of my favorite things to teach people   is because people are like, I just want to learn tax strategy. I want to learn tax strategy, tax strategy. And you're like, okay, here's the thing about tax strategy is you can only do tax strategy. Can't see I'm doing air quotes here. If you have money that you don't want to give the government, if you are spending   Kiera Dent (05:47) you   Mm-hmm. Air quotes, I see them.   it.   Dr. Lauryn B (06:06) much as you make and the government's like, yeah, you're good. You don't know anything. Like there's no strategy to be had. Strategy can only apply to profits. you know, like to money you've made. So, so that's where it's like, okay, I get that you really want tax strategy, but like you're, you don't need strategy yet. You just need to create more.   Kiera Dent (06:09) There is no tech strategy. ⁓ That is a tech strategy. No.   Yes.   You   just need money to then pay taxes on. Then we can talk about what it's gonna be. Yes.   Dr. Lauryn B (06:37) Yes, then we can talk strategy.   But yeah, so like that's where it starts. The next hard part, and this is where I kind of touched on like, we went into this career because we believed this career was gonna take care of us while we took care of other people. And so everybody's got a little different version of what that means. ⁓ What car they think they should be driving.   Kiera Dent (06:42) That's a point.   Ready.   Dr. Lauryn B (07:06) once they have made it, what ⁓ their house situation should look like, how many vacations, their spouse, if they're buying their spouse, designer bags and things like that. Like we have in our head once we make it, what life will look like. And so after you fix your cashflow thing, the next thing is like,   you gotta kind of continue to live below your means for a while. Because if all of a sudden you've fixed your profit margins and you have an extra $30,000 flowing into bank accounts a month that does not have a job, like, you're just like, we're gonna move into a bigger clinic, we're gonna hire another doctor, we're gonna do this. And all of a sudden that...   Kiera Dent (07:58) Let's go!   Dr. Lauryn B (08:04) that potential, but like you have to have money in excess to build wealth upon. If you fix the first problem, which is we don't have enough money, okay great, now you have enough money, and then instead of building wealth, you buy a Birkin, which I still keep sending my husband all of the memes and reels that like Birkins are apparently, you know, they are also   appreciating, they're beating the S &P. So I'm just saying maybe a Birkin was a bad example because that would be an investment. ⁓   Kiera Dent (08:36) See?   I why not? think there's a   lot we could probably justify in the investment realm. Like it's fine. I'm here for it.   Dr. Lauryn B (08:46) Right, right. But   no, you know, if it's like one of those things where if you just lifestyle inflate after you fixed your cashflow issue, what's going to happen is, is you're going to still be, you're going to have like golden handcuffs where you're like, well, yeah, the clinic is bringing in 1.2 and like, yeah, I do keep 350 of that, but I still.   like I'm paying off my student, because your student loan payment now is increasing and like this and like your mortgage and all of this stuff. And you're gonna, you have the potential if you're not careful to feel just as squeezed financially, even though you've gone to the next level of salary and income, but you can still feel that exact same financial scare. And so like that's another thing where it's like, okay, you have to figure out,   the balance for you and your spouse because like my husband, ⁓ my husband is definitely, so this is from Garrett Gunderson. He's a really great financial wealth advisor. don't know if he's in your guys's world. Yes. Okay. Yes. So he was on my podcast and he was talking about how basically within all the   Kiera Dent (09:53) I love him.   Definitely. We love him.   Dr. Lauryn B (10:04) that he's coached people through, there's basically, he used a different word, but right now I'll just call it the the saver and the spender. Okay.   Now the spender tends to be the visionary, the CEO. It tends to be the person that's like taking the risks to build the things. They're like, we had a record year, we're   reward ourselves, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, life is fun, this is great, this is like a... And then they often marry a ⁓ saver that is just like...   I don't need all of that. I don't need another vacation. I don't need a fancier car. I don't need this. ⁓ And it can actually make them very uncomfortable that, you know, so my husband is, we'll call it   saver. ⁓ And we go, I mean, our travel budget a year is insane.   we should definitely be putting that towards crypto and like buying a duplex and like building more. But   Kiera Dent (10:57) you.   But why? But why?   Dr. Lauryn B (11:04) If someone told me like, no, no,   no, here's the plan. You get one trip a year and then we're gonna just like   all of this money and then you can start around 45, like, know, and then at 50, it'll open up a little bit more. Like, I'd like, well, that's no fun. I don't want that. And so you have to figure out, because there's a ditch on both sides of the road, right? And so you have to figure out like, when do you want to retire?   Kiera Dent (11:28) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (11:33) Like what is that number? What is that freedom number? How much money do you need coming in in like passive investments? Like how much do you need your crypto portfolio to be doing? Like your real estate portfolio. What's that number of monthly income or annual income? And when do you want to get there by? And this is going to be so dependent on whoever you're talking to.   if you're 50 and you're like, I want to get there by 55.   and you're starting,   not great. Like, yeah, okay, you know what? Your travel budget, you just need to not worry about that for five years. Like, you got some work to do. But like, if you're sitting here at 35 and you're like, I'd like to retire by 50, and like, I still wanna take our kids on some vacations, but I do think we should be, you know, then you just gotta pick where are you pinching pennies? Like, because you gotta pinch them somewhere. So like, maybe it's...   not designer handbag season. Maybe it's not getting the newest vehicle. Maybe you'd rather live in a bigger house, but drive a more reasonable car. Whatever it is, maybe you have no problem giving up vacations, but you need that pool in your backyard. Again, there's a ditch on both sides. think that as this couple, you need to come together and figure out.   that equation where even after you're getting some of these doctor luxuries that you've worked hard for, there's still money left over that is being invested wisely.   Kiera Dent (13:13) love Lauryn that you talked about Garrett Gunderson and I love that there's the saver and the spender in every relationship because this happens like it's a real thing. ⁓ And I love that you talk about like, okay, one step one is like, you got to make money and you got to keep the money. So it's like, make the money and keep the money. I have like, okay, if we could just follow that. Jocko Willings, he's got a quote. This is like discipline equals freedom. And it sits in my kitchen, which I think is a very smart place to stick this sign. I see it all the time. And I'm like, that really is step one is like discipline on this.   Dr. Lauryn B (13:28) Make the money, keep the money.   Kiera Dent (13:43) And I think that there's like, one of our consultants, says, choose your hard. And I think about this, like both sides have a hard, like spending all the money has a hard of like being broke. Saving the money has the hard of you've got to actually put like parameters in place. So both have it. But for me, I'd rather sleep at night knowing I've got money in the bank rather than like sitting there wondering how I'm going to make payroll. Like to me, that's the hard I would rather choose. I would not rather not choose the other side. So I'm going to be disciplined there. And then,   I really started working on and I heard at a conference about like just an easy way. Cause my husband, I'm the spender. He's the saver. And it's really thrilling for me because I felt annoyed. I felt like I was dragging him like an anchor. Like we were going on vacation. We're buying the cars and like, don't like cut my wind out of my sails. Like I was so angry about it. So we actually had to make a vision board of both of us. Like what are his dreams and what are my dreams? And we like co put it up on the wall. It literally sits in our bedroom. And it was one of the best things I ever did because he wasn't able to see what inspires me and what I'm excited about what   what's important to me. And I was able to see what's important to him. We also figured out like what's our BAM, our bare ACE minimum as a couple and where we want that. And then when you're talking about like the savings, I really found this awesome principle where it's kind of like, ultimately, what does it actually cost you to get to financial freedom? And when I did this exercise and I do it with a lot of clients, you can actually break it down. like, what does that like, bougie, whatever life you want that to look like, what does that look like? What's your mortgage? What's your HOA? What's the internet? What's the utilities like?   What's our groceries? What's our food bill? What's our children bill? Like how many cars do we have on this? And like literally build that out to what's like my highest end. And then you actually scale it back down to basically like, what's my security bucket? Like for me to just survive, like you said, like the monks, like what is it for me? Like scrap it all down. Let's go back to dental school. Let's go back to chiropractic school. Like when I was at my like most broke, but I could scrap like you guys, can top around and like a boss, like I know I could get through. So like, what is my like minimum amount?   Then what I do, so basically taking that all the way up to my financial freedom, like where I've got money making money, it's a money making machine for me. And then how do I actually break that down? So I've got security, then I've got like growth, then I've got independence, and then I've got freedom. And then beyond that are like your prosperity and your legacy buckets. And so when I look at this, it's like, you basically just chunk it down. And what I mean, I'm such a nerd, I really am. I've like learned to fall in love. I like took that amount of like total dollars.   Then I looked at like, how much money do I actually need to make? What tax bracket am I in? How much do I need like pre and post tax? Like again, total nerd side on my side. But then I was able to look and I'm like, okay, for this practice, I know that for them to be like, just baseline, they need to be making about a hundred grand a year. Like that's pre-tax. So we know like we're to take tax out. We can survive. That's like our security. Then our growth goes up to 202 post-tax. Then our independence is at like 553. Well, now I know my mile markers of what I need to do. And I also have those parameters. you said, where am I going to penny pinch?   This does not mean that I don't have certain luxuries, but it means that I'm like, it's like a gradient and I'm able to see what I'm working towards. And I remember my CPA, he told me once he said, Kiera, it actually becomes a lot easier to make money. And like once you, like in a few years, once you've bought a few of the things that you really are looking for, and I was like, you're full of it. Like, I don't believe you for a second, but it's true. Like as you evolve.   You buy the things you want, you get the house that you want, you get the car that you think you want, you get the designer bags, like it's not all overnight. And then you're like, wow, I have a decent amount because I've learned to make the money, save the money, not spend everything that I've got. I'm able to then plan for these purchases that I want. I love Profit First, Mike McAllags. He's like my fangirl central every time he's on the podcast. I like just love him so much, but I'm like, okay, then I have buckets. have my travel bucket. And you're right, Mike, my travel.   Dr. Lauryn B (17:18) yeah. Sweep account. Sweep! ⁓   Kiera Dent (17:28) amount, that's something that fuels me. So we pump money into a travel fund, but we have those to where I now have budgets and our clients have budgets and you can have budgets. And it's not for me, clients have even told me that's more freeing than it is otherwise, because they actually know I can spend this money guilt free and go on the trip. can go and buy this car guilt free because I have the money.   Dr. Lauryn B (17:46) Mm-hmm.   And that's probably really   helpful for your spouse too. A lot of times the saver spouse, like it's hard for them until there's like an act, like that's the permission they need of like, no, we ran the numbers and we like this amount of money was proportionally taken and it's there. It's only to be spent on this. And they're like, okay.   Kiera Dent (17:52) Thanks.   Yes.   Yes.   Okay. And then the spender feels good because they're not just blowing all the money. So it's on this like, it's a good balance, but I love it. Like it's very simple. And now I'm very curious, Lauryn, because you've talked about like not having your business as your only asset, like that's cash flowing for you. Once we've got a simple, we like make the money and we keep the money like check that off. Then we go into these like, I love the idea. There's a ditch on both sides of the road. So which one are we going to do? We figure out like, what do need today? What are my future like?   Dr. Lauryn B (18:28) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (18:41) kind of nice purchases that I want to, how do I build up to these other ones that I can save for? What's my total number? Like I know my number for financial freedom is psychotic. When I look at that, it really is. I actually have it.   Dr. Lauryn B (18:51) Is it really? Because I'm   interested that you said that because most people when they do that exercise are kind of like, ⁓ it's surprising to them that it's actually not higher. like, so.   Kiera Dent (19:12) Well, let me just clarify.   Let me ask this for you, Lauryn. What I found is for me to hit like my security, my vitality, my independence. Like we're talking like pretty much up to freedom. I'm actually it's good. Like we're there, but my absolute freedom, like where I never have to work another day in my life for me, that number, that number is a little more extreme. That one, but like even looking at it now, cause when I told you, I'm like, it's psychotic. I just pulled the spreadsheet up. What's fun though is I built this.   Dr. Lauryn B (19:30) ⁓ okay.   Yeah. Okay, the like I quit number, the like.   Kiera Dent (19:42) gosh, I like I should honestly look, I think I built this spreadsheet, I'm going to we're gonna hold everybody I know you're like on pins and needles, I'm just gonna scroll back to when I actually made this. It's on Google Sheets, you can go back to like when it was built. So I built this and I think this is really just telling for people I built this in 2022. So May 13 2022 at 1026 am is when I built it. We're now recording this in 2025. So we're only talking just over three years since I originally built it.   I told you Lauryn that my number for absolute freedom, we're talking like I put it all because I have a jet in there. I have a charter jet. I have a private like I put all these things like it was just I have like I want to   Dr. Lauryn B (20:17) You have a jet in there? Okay, well most people when   they do the exercise the way I have them do it aren't putting jets in there. I love you, Kiera. Okay, we're gonna stay friends because I want on that jet. Kiera error.   Kiera Dent (20:25) Like I'm telling you this is my absolute freedom. This is the absolute absolute like here is living this life I mean girl you can come cuz I just like   I wanted to see like what does this look like and I want to have like I don't want to retire in a retirement home I want to live in a villa like I've got some pretty lofty things in this like we're talking I went for like   Dr. Lauryn B (20:41) Right. Did you put the pilot   costs in there too or does that just come with a jet?   Kiera Dent (20:45) So my husband actually wants to be a pilot. So that's already like built in. So I've got like that. I also have friends that are pilots like, you know, yellow, we're gonna have that. Thank you, thank you. So on that, and I actually went through this, like I built it the first time, but we're talking three years. And I look at that to have that absolute freedom. The annual income pre-tax would be 4.6 million, which that can sound like an outlandish number. However, based on where the business is now, it's not that outlandish. And that was just a short.   Dr. Lauryn B (20:49) Okay. Okay. Okay. The jet makes a little more sense now, but yeah, got it.   No, it's doable.   Kiera Dent (21:15) three year period where I'm like, I mean, we got a jet, I got play money. mean, guys in-house chef, live in nanny, we've got all the cars, I've got my Lambo, I've got chartered flights in there, like you name it. And I look at this and I often assess because Kiera three years ago wanted some of these things and Kiera today might look at that and be like, know, I actually don't want these things, but this is what I'd rather. I'd rather like buy a house for my parents or I'd rather do this, but you will shift and change.   Dr. Lauryn B (21:16) And that's got a freaking jet in it.   Kiera Dent (21:45) But it's so crazy because when I look at that, I'm like, all right. So I know if things get tight in the business, I know, all right, rock on. Like pre-tax, we need to make a hundred grand. Like easy. We can handle that. We can create that. We can figure that out. That's it. Again, just a math equation. But then when you look up and you scale up, it becomes so much more doable and realistic. And then for me, I don't know how you feel, Lauryn. It's like, now the number doesn't feel like, got it. I know actually like what I'm working towards. I know how I can now do the math equation. It's not like I have to make   500 million to be free. It's like, no, I need this money because it will now go into investments. It will go into other places. I know how much that's going to generate for me. I know how much it's going to estimate grow. And I don't know. It just is pretty magical. So I'm very curious. Like, what are your other revenue streams that you recommend when we're looking at this and we're building that financial freedom? We're looking at like, okay, I kind of am. I'm hoping that people listening to this podcast are putting like dots together. Like, okay, got it. Like make the money, keep the money.   Dr. Lauryn B (22:17) Mm-hmm.   Hmm.   Kiera Dent (22:38) figure out how I'm gonna spend it, but not overspend it and still keep the money so I don't pinch on that side. Then I'm gonna look to see where I ultimately wanna get in my life. Now, like what are some other things like if we're there, how did you get it to where you weren't just reliant on your business anymore?   Dr. Lauryn B (22:52) So first I will say that none of this is any tax or legal advice and you must talk to your CPA or whatever. Yeah, here's my little disclaimer. I am not an accountant or anything, a lawyer or anything like that. So right now, so I just interviewed someone on crypto. So I am really, really lucky that my husband, he's a very early adopter. And so   Kiera Dent (22:58) This is true our little disclaimer there guys go talk to people that are not   Dr. Lauryn B (23:21) We have been pretty involved in crypto for   Kiera Dent (23:26) Which is why you said   do crypto like all the things like I should be putting this in crypto not going on trips. I now get it. All right, go on.   Dr. Lauryn B (23:33) So I just interviewed someone on my podcast who's like a crypto investor and like some of the predictions that the crypto people, the crypto people are saying about   going to happen with crypto, what could happen with crypto in the next five years,   4.6 million would be easy. So like if our current crypto ⁓   Kiera Dent (23:55) Chump change, like truly, truly.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:01) account like amount that we have invested   did even a fraction of like what like we'd be we'd be pretty   pretty pretty good even if that doesn't happen in five years if it like takes 10 so crypto for us   Kiera Dent (24:08) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:14) and like i said i just i knew that like that was the thing that for him but like i just really got i got off this interview and i was like how much did you invest last month we need   double it we need to like and he's like yeah   This is so exciting. Like I have been priceless. I've been really obsessed with a Cartier watch lately. Like a real like, and so I have was, I'm already   Kiera Dent (24:28) That's where he'll spend there, Lauryn.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:37) about my 2026 vision board because I'm in Enneagram three and we do weird   like that. And so I I was like, I want to go to Switzerland and   Kiera Dent (24:41) I love it.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:46) want to   to Switzerland and buy a Cartier watch. Cause that's where they're made. And like, and now I'm like, you know, maybe we should   Kiera Dent (24:52) Yeah.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:56) delay, that would be better put into crypto. And he's just like, this is the saver husband is just like, this is the greatest thing in the world. So anyway, so that's one bucket. ⁓ And you know, he spends a good amount of time each week, each day monitoring. So I won't even call that passive. I think that crypto can be a lot more passive depending on how you do it. I'm not going to get any deeper into the waters here because we are at my like limit of understanding of crypto.   Kiera Dent (25:02) He's loving it. Okay, so crypto. Okay.   Okay, perfect.   Dr. Lauryn B (25:24) I know   that you can   very active in investing and there are ways that can be much more passive. ⁓ So real estate, obviously   think that real estate is the secret of the wealthy for decades and decades and decades and it's not such a secret anymore. It comes with its own things. We both experienced 2007. I luckily had just gone into school, but there are people who lost their asses in 2007 with real estate. So not foolproof. Also,   Kiera Dent (25:50) only.   Dr. Lauryn B (25:54) not incredibly passive. We throw the word passive around way too much in this, but I will say where the majority currently and where we're like next year, how I'm getting to 3 million and this and that, a good percentage of it is very, very active in the personal brand coaching side of things.   Kiera Dent (25:56) I would agree on that. You gotta have a lot of doors, lots of doors, lots of time.   I agree.   Dr. Lauryn B (26:22) I have built and have continued building. ⁓ so, you know, podcast, sure, that makes some money, but like where very actively, where I spend more time on than in my clinic is in the online space of coaching courses, programs, webinars, membership. And that's when you find, and here's the thing.   is like every dentist listening, every chiropractor listening is like, okay, so I need to coach other dentists. I need to coach other chiropractors. And it's like, no, what I'm saying is, is online, there is a lot of money that can be made. It's not easier, but it's also not harder. It's its own hard. I just solved a different problem for someone. So I had the business that we solve this problem. And then I figured out a way. So we talked about the financial.   Kiera Dent (27:05) Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (27:18) freedom, but then I figured out the time freedom that I wasn't needed there all the time. So I could sit and go, what's another problem that I can sell a solution to?   Kiera Dent (27:33) Okay, let's like pause there. I'm very curious. How did you get, how did you solve the time solution? Like guilt free, like walk me through. I know it's like a pile whole nother episodes. Like do it in like a chunk or probably close to time.   Dr. Lauryn B (27:38) God, that's.   Yeah, well, I mean,   you ultimately, you pay for your time. So like, I am not collecting as much money from my clinic as I could if I was there doing the service. Like, that's just kind of obvious. ⁓ So I am paying for doctors that I wouldn't need a doctor. I could get rid of an entire doctor's salary if I just worked full time.   Kiera Dent (27:59) Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (28:10) I could also get rid of my amazing and well-paid director of ops. So this was a big game changer for us is so like, you may have a doctor on staff that's like your clinic director. You know, they're really in charge of like patient care, whatever, things like that. I recommend having a not office manager, a director of operations.   Kiera Dent (28:25) Thank   Dr. Lauryn B (28:39) Okay, like this is not an office manager. A lot of time your office manager is like by default, the person who's been with you the longest. Like we hired in a specific skillset that was going to be my eyes, ears, hands, feet, pretty much everything except my visionary brain.   Kiera Dent (28:40) Nothing.   and   Dr. Lauryn B (29:03) She does HR meetings, she does hiring, she does firing, she monitors stats. I meet with her once a week and I get reports. I pay her pretty well. And like honestly, she needs another raise and so does my other doctor. Like, so this is what's hard.   Kiera Dent (29:17) Yeah.   So let's just break it down. I   don't wanna know exactly what your Director of Operations gets paid, but let's give a range so people understand, because I think people don't realize what we're paying for that. So are we talking? Okay, perfect. And for some of you, might hear like, yes. And I would say that that, I would say it's probably 60 to 150 penny upon, for dentists, the size and practice, like I have seen that come through. So again, looking to see where it is.   Dr. Lauryn B (29:27) Probably 60 to 90 grand.   depending on your city and things like that.   can.   and   especially like if you're running multiple clinics. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (29:44) Yes. So   when you said that though, when we were talking about the audacious number and we're like, Hey, 4.6, like it seems so, but you're like, it's really big. But I think if people were to hear that and think K 60 to 90, if I were to pay somebody 90, but not have to do all the meetings, not all the hiring, not all the firing, what is your time worth? Go to Dan Martell, buy back your time. He's one of my favorites. Like what is your dollar per hour when you're doing dentistry or when you're doing chiropractic?   And could you hire that out? Like how many hours could you do or use your visionary brain to grow the business, grow other things? Well, yes, that's a great salary. It also, think when we put it with your time, I think a lot of people could see that on a balance sheet of a very good investment because I think time is one of your greatest assets. So again, I just want to highlight because a lot of people may think it's like 200.   Dr. Lauryn B (30:26) Mm-hmm.   Well, and I'm in a circle back.   So, cause I said, there's like the two different reasons you're burning out. Although I've listed like 17 at this point. You you've got the person who just wants to care for people and they have to run a business. And then you've got the person who's like, I've solved this. So like, I don't remember who said it, but they basically said there's like two types of people. And this is a really great question to ask when you're hiring. It's one of my favorite questions. ⁓ Are you the type of person?   Kiera Dent (30:39) Yeah   Dr. Lauryn B (30:57) who wants to solve the same problem every day and get more efficient and faster and better at solving that puzzle, or are you a person who would rather have a brand new puzzle every day and figure out   to solve that puzzle? There is no wrong answer here. You are not a less than person because people hear that and they go, oh.   I wanna be the exciting person. And this is why so many people end up in entrepreneurship that shouldn't is because they hear the air quotes, right answer there. the exciting answer is I want a new puzzle. Most people are not psycho like   if you   that you're that person, when you're really, this is totally cool to be like a more efficient problem solving, like same puzzle. But that's what a business is.   Kiera Dent (31:49) Yes.   Dr. Lauryn B (31:50) after a   certain point, you are solving the same problem. And so I literally couldn't. I couldn't, so like, yes, I could say like, well, I had the option of not spending that money on salary and just like stepping into my practice even more and being that director of ops and being that, I couldn't. I was done. At this point, this had been like 12 years.   Like, this is really more more recent. I've been in practice 15 years. So it was really more like three years ago that I was like, I can't, I want to. And I feel like a bad person that I'm like, I can still be the visionary. I can still check in and I still love hands-on patience. Like, ⁓ but like we need to hand this baton to somebody better because I will die if I have to keep hiring and doing some of this stuff.   Kiera Dent (32:47) You   How did your team and doctors take that? Because I think people are so scared of like, well, why does Lauryn get to go have one or two days in the office and we're here five days? Like, did you have any of that backlash? Like, how did that go?   Dr. Lauryn B (32:50) And so.   they're continue, you know, like, yeah, your people are people are people. And we can't, we can't, as if I don't get, my husband has to talk me off a ledge, you know, once a month about like, can you believe, like, we, they're just humans who are also living their experience and wanting more money and like seeing you live abundantly and feeling feelings of jealousy. Like you can't cure anybody who says like they've cured jealousy.   from their team culture, they are lying. So like feelings of jealousy and greed, these are natural human emotions that your staff is going to go through. And so, you know, I would say that more recently as we, because like we're talking about like, hey, the clinic numbers are not good enough for...   Kiera Dent (33:36) Yeah   Dr. Lauryn B (34:00) abundance and bonuses and raises. We've told you what we need the clinic numbers to be at in order for raises to happen.   Kiera Dent (34:06) I hope everybody listening   just heard how she was a CEO and she told them, these are what the numbers are. This is what we have to do. It's not, me give you bonuses and pay you more in hopes to get that number up there. Like rewind that, listen to that over and over and over again, because you have to have this team needs to see that. Otherwise, this is how you don't make the money and keep the money. You make the money and you pay more money and you're broke. Go on.   Dr. Lauryn B (34:27) Yeah, and for the first, that's   how I got to the worst, the best worst year of my life, you biggest revenue, but worst income was because we had been giving raises based on like effort and like they're working really hard. They deserve a raise. So an employee can deserve a raise, but there's not money to give them. So like we're simultaneously this year dealing with like, hey,   I wanna give raises, but like it's gotta be here and we're close, but we're not there. They simultaneously see me just fucking killing it in the online space and spending, because also like in the personal brand, like I coach healthcare providers how to launch a personal brand. And so like I talk about like, hey, I got a $2,000 affiliate check. We invested $13,000 from crypto. If you go find me on Instagram @DrLaurynB, you will see like,   My posts are about abundance and what a personal brand can do for you and how like the behind the scenes of like, yeah, we are, we're talking about diversifying income. Like this is how much our real   portfolio made last month. People want to know that, but my staff sees that. And so they're like, well, she rich. Why is she trying to tell us   she can't give us, why is it? And so, so like even literally this month.   Kiera Dent (35:45) that we don't have money. because the business, the business.   Dr. Lauryn B (35:52) We're in like calm, kind, one-to-one conversations having to be like, you know, but I will say my husband and I, like, this is like real life. These are conversations that literally happened like a week and a half ago where I came to my husband because prior the clinic was all the money. It was all the money. It was the biggest thing. It was really in the last two years that things switched.   where it was like, now my clinic is like, when do we call my clinic my side gig? Because I'm literally making four times as much on this personal brand in digital space. ⁓ And so we realized that,   Kiera Dent (36:20) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (36:32) there isn't money for raises that they want. There isn't money for bonuses. But can I,   Lauryn Brunclik.   who loves my employees, can I give them, can I shower them with birthday presents and anniversary presents and Christmas presents? Can I buy them lunch because they saved my ass because I came in late from a podcast recording or this or that? Yeah, because Lauryn can, like the personal, like we are fine. We are rich, great, this is great.   But like my head was so like the only money from a business mind that we can spend is the money that's allowed. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Now we're entering a whole new ball field where it's like, you know what? I can, but it's not gonna come from bonuses and raises. Those come from clinic performance. And so we are kind of going like, okay, FYI, this isn't coming from chiropractic. This is coming from me.   Kiera Dent (37:30) Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (37:41) loving and appreciating all that you do in this clinic so that I can. So what does this look like? You take a week off and you go golf the greatest like golf whatever courses and like you just like have this bucket list thing. This looks like you showing acts of appreciation, bringing gifts, buying them dinner, like whatever it is like.   showing appreciation for your staff that they are there so you can live your best life. They were there so you could leave early and go watch your kids dance recital. So like, although our natural instinct is to only show them that we appreciate them through raises and bonuses, and that's what they want. So like anytime you can do it. ⁓   Kiera Dent (38:38) I agree.   I agree. I feel like both.   Dr. Lauryn B (38:40) Sometimes   you have to figure out more creative ways to show your appreciation to them that they are doing that so you can't.   Kiera Dent (38:49) I love that. Wow. Lauryn, this is such a fun podcast. think like to put a pretty bow on this. What would you say if a doctor, your listeners, my listeners, if they're listening to this, what would you say would be like, wrap up takeaways from I mean, we have gone the gown. I love this. I felt like we were on the most random road trip of like we were going to this stop going to this one.   Dr. Lauryn B (39:08) I'm not sure if we took this entire transcript   and uploaded it to AI. It would be like, no, you guys are amazing. Here's your silver thread.   Kiera Dent (39:17) That would be amazing. So what would you say would be kind of like key takeaways or things that maybe we didn't get to that you just feel like listeners, business owners, those running the day to day clinic, whether you want to be on whichever side of this burnout coin, if you want to be there and serve the patients but are sick of doing the business, if you're on the side of like, gosh, I like just want to run the business and do other things outside of this, like looking at the burnout, looking at the generations that we're going through. I mean, we went the gamut of   from investments and passive income to appreciating your team as you as a person rather than the business. Like so many fun, different like ideas and aha moments. Any last thoughts you wanna add to put a pretty bow on today's podcast?   Dr. Lauryn B (39:57) All well, that's a really hard question, but you're lucky I actually do have something to say. was like, oh God, okay. All right, so was listening to a podcast this morning. Simon Sinek had Arthur Brooks on, and Arthur Brooks is, I don't know, political science, behavioral science, I think behavioral science. And he just very briefly in the interview said that like,   Kiera Dent (39:59) I know. Hey, good, good.   Dr. Lauryn B (40:21) It's human nature that we go through a reinvention of our career and have to reinvent ourselves every seven to 12 years. And that's just, that's gonna happen. So from the time that you graduate high school until the time that you retire, you're going to need to reinvent yourself multiple times. And the more that you fight that, the more that you, you you're at that seven year itch or whatever,   and instead of embracing reinvention, whatever that looks like for you, maybe you're bringing on new services into your clinic. like, it doesn't need to mean you need to lean out at that point, but you might just need a little, like, re-ignition, a reinvention of your brand. ⁓ The more that you fight that and go, I shouldn't feel this way, what's wrong with me? Like, like if you're sitting there broke and you're just stuck,   in a place of instead of reinventing yourself into this wealthy, healthy doctor that you know you can be, but instead you're like, God, I'm 39. I don't have my shit together. I should be making more money. I should, like, the more you just sit in this, what's wrong with me? It's just gonna torture yourself. I truly believe that people, you know, let's say they get 12 years into their career.   I believe that there are ⁓ too high of a percentage of people that literally just plan on embracing the suck the rest of their career instead of reinventing themselves for something joyful and abundant. And that just makes me so sad. So that's what I would say is my final thing is if you feel wherever you're at in your career, if you're feeling this, like this is your permission. It's not from me, it's from Arthur Brooks. He's some smart.   Kiera Dent (42:17) Yeah.   Dr. Lauryn B (42:18) Like you were smart enough to be on Simon Sinek, all right? He's giving you permission. This is not just a unique thing. This is human nature. And so figure it out. What does reinvention look like for you? ⁓ And just start doing the work.   Kiera Dent (42:35) Lauryn, that was absolutely beautiful and I hope people listen. I hope they take action. They take advice. ⁓ Because I think what you just said is so freeing and so beautiful. So I really hope people don't just listen, but actually take action. So Lauryn, I love this today. It was so fun. How can people get in? It's a great time. I'm like when we in person, I guarantee you'll be someone we will be fast friends in real life. Like just loved having you on here today. How can people get connected with you? How can they see your   Dr. Lauryn B (42:51) We should meet up in real life.   Kiera Dent (43:03) life again, I believe like when we watch other people we become like them. So it's like, I want people like you. I want people that are abundant. I want people like this is what the podcast is for. This is why we bring people together. How can people get connected with you if they want to know more about you see what you're doing? How can they   Dr. Lauryn B (43:07) Mm-hmm.   yeah, and if you   related to this, you'll love my Instagram, because this is everything that I talk about. So it's @DrLaurynB and Lauryn is with a Y. So ⁓ Instagram is definitely the place I hang out the most. Send me a DM if you listen to this. Like I am in my DMs all the time. And I would just, yeah, that's the best place.   Kiera Dent (43:34) I love it. We are millennials. Instagram's our jam. We're not on Snapchat, all right? It's Instagram, okay? It's gonna be that way forever. But Lauryn, I loved it today. Thank you for joining me. Everyone here, I hope you picked up nuggets. I hope you take action. I hope you truly commit to living your best life. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team   Dr. Lauryn B (43:37) This jam. Yeah.  

HAPPY EIGHT YEARS OF HEAVING BOSOMS, HBs!!!! It's our 8th podiversary episode and WE! ARE! PUMPED! We also have someone special to introduce to you! Then we've got successes, things to improve, lessons learned, HB Authors, and Hard Limits Watch!! Get excited! This Friday on Patreon and our Apple Podcast subscription, Sabrina is telling us all about their most recent EJ Russell rabbit hole! They were on the lookout for less common monster romance and couldn't stop once they found EJ's cozy MM monster romance. Be sure to check out our AMAZING episode sponsor: THE SPITE DATE by Pippa Grant! The Spite Date is a riotously fun opposites attract romance featuring a golden retriever celebrity who needs to get out of his own way, a woman trying to live her best life even if she's not sure exactly how to do that, and a series of plans gone very, very wrong. It stands alone and comes with a sweetly satisfying happily ever after. Curious about the ridiculous faces we make? Subscribe and watch us on YOUTUBE! Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail  Follow our socials:  Instagram @heavingbosoms | Tiktok @heaving_bosoms | Bluesky: @heavingbosoms.com | Threads: @heavingbosoms   Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz  Art: Author Kate Prior The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins, a former KCPD Intelligence Detective, is joined by Lydia Jean Kott (LJ), a producer at Pushkin Industries, the company founded by Malcolm Gladwell. LJ brings us inside the making of Chinatown Sting, a gripping new podcast that uncovers the fascinating and little-known story of Chinese organized crime, China White heroin, and characters like Machinegun Johnny in New York's Chinatown during the 1980s. LJ explains how her interest in the case was sparked by a personal connection—her boyfriend's mother was a federal prosecutor involved in the original sting. That legendary case centered on heroin smuggled from Hong Kong into Chinatown, hidden in packages and distributed through a network of mahjong-playing mothers. What began with a flagged parcel at the post office unraveled into a high-stakes undercover investigation. We explore how law enforcement managed to penetrate this tight-knit immigrant community, the risks taken by prosecutors like Beryl Howell, and the difficult moral choices faced by those caught in the middle—including a woman forced to choose between betraying a friend or saving herself. LJ also delves into the history of Chinatowns in America, where family associations and Tongs—formed initially as mutual aid societies—became intertwined with the vice industry. She connects this legacy to gangs like the Flying Dragons and their ties back to organized crime in Hong Kong.   Our discussion is not just about drugs, gangs, and federal stings—it's about storytelling, community, and the pursuit of survival. LJ shares how she and her co-reporter pieced the story together over the course of years of interviews and archival research, giving voice to people often overlooked in the larger mob narrative.   If you're fascinated by organized crime, hidden histories, or the way law enforcement takes on international networks, Chinatown Sting is a podcast you won't want to miss. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app.   Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to "buy me a cup of coffee" To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  xx Gary Jenkins : [00:00:00] Hey, welcome all you wire tappers. Good to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins. You know, I'm a retired Kansas City police intelligence unit detective turned podcaster. Gary Jenkins : I did a few other things in between, but this is the love of my life here, guys. And I was just talking with our guests that I don't do this for the money, but I do it for fun and, and it is a lot of fun and, and I can tell my guests today. Does it to earn a living, but she does it a lot for fun. She really is into it. Gary Jenkins : So it's Lydia Jean Kott, or we call her lj. Welcome. Lj, L.J. : thank you so much. I'm a huge fan of the show and it's an honor to get to be on it and to get to talk to you. Gary Jenkins : Well, cool. Thank you for that compliment. I really appreciate that. Kind of makes it worthwhile keeping coming back. I get those nice comments on my YouTube channel quite a little bit. Gary Jenkins : That kinda keeps me coming back when I get down a little bit. Anyhow first of all, you're. You're with something called Pushkin, P-U-S-H-K-I-N, which is a Malcolm Gladwell company. I think he started it and had [00:01:00] the first podcast early in the days. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm like one of the earliest I am the earliest Mafia podcast. Gary Jenkins : I think that ever first one had ever started, I believe long before. When did you start? Oh, . 2015, I believe. L.J. : Okay. Yeah. Early, early podcast days, Gary Jenkins : early podcast. I listened to Serial and I thought, man, I think I could do that and tell police stories. Gary Jenkins: Yeah.

Send me a one-way text about this episode! I'll give you a shout out or answer your question on a future episode.Today, I am beginning a series of Monday Motivations all about Making Room for the Holidays. Over the next four weeks I will give you ideas for making room in your home, your budget, your schedule and your heart. I know it's only October, and I promise not to play Christmas music, but if we wait until December to make room in our space, finances, calendars and ourselves, we will likely become overwhelmed and default to survival mode. My aim for this series is to give you ideas and tools to make room for not just surviving, but thriving in and truly enjoying the holiday season. NOTES & LINKSFor full show notes and the  FREE Making Room in Your Home Check List visit theartofhomepodcast.com/blog and search "MM#35"Support the showHOMEMAKING RESOURCES Private Facebook Group, Homemaker Forum Newsletter Archive JR Miller's Homemaking Study Guide SUPPORT & CONNECT Review | Love The Podcast Contact | Voicemail |Instagram | Facebook | Website | Email Follow | Follow The Podcast Support | theartofhomepodcast.com/support Buy | as an Amazon affiliate, AoH receives a small commission at no extra cost to you when you use our links to purchase items we recommend

You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, OR— BRAND NEW: we've included a fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, we have a coaching call with Laurel and Derrick. This call is such a good one because we cover ALL the big ideas behind the peaceful parenting approach, while applying them to real life scenarios in a home with three kids. Topics include sibling rivalry, nurturing our kids, self regulation, how to handle kids asking lots of questions and always wanting more, what parenting without punishment looks like, and more!**If you'd like an ad-free version of the podcast, consider becoming a supporter on Substack! > > If you already ARE a supporter, the ad-free version is waiting for you in the Substack app or you can enter the private feed URL in the podcast player of your choice.Know someone who might appreciate this post? Share it with them!We talk about:* 7:00 What it looks like when our children truly respect us* 9:00 7-year-old refusing to get dressed* 12:10 Why it is okay baby and nurture our kids* 14:00 Tuning into our own self regulation* 18:00 Mindset shifts to give our kids the benefit of the doubt* 19:30 How to handle sibling rivalry* 24:00 Don't try to make it a teachable moment* 38:00 When kids ask questions over and over* 41:00 Why kids always want more!* 45:00 Helping kids see how their actions affect other people* 55:00 Why kids lie and what to do* 57:00 Natural consequences, boundaries, and limits* 1:02 Peaceful Parenting MantrasResources mentioned in this episode:* Yoto Player-Screen Free Audio Book Player* The Peaceful Parenting Membership* Free Stop Sibling Fights E book* Free How To Stop Yelling at Your Kids e-coursexx Sarah and CoreyYour peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching sessionVisit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!>> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, “Weekend Reflections” and “Weekend Support” - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the spring for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others.In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly ‘ask me anything' session.Our sponsors:YOTO is a screen free audio book player that lets your kids listen to audiobooks, music, podcasts and more without screens, and without being connected to the internet. No one listening or watching and they can't go where you don't want them to go and they aren't watching screens. BUT they are being entertained or kept company with audio that you can buy from YOTO or create yourself on one of their blank cards. Check them out HERETranscript:Derrick: Hi, good morning.Sarah: Hi Derek. Nice to meet you. Hi Laurel. Hi. Are you a firefighter, Derek? I'm—yeah, I'm actually—I see you've got your sweatshirt.Derrick: Yeah. Just a heads up, I may have to jump off if we get a call.Sarah: Okay. Well, so nice to meet you guys. So you've got three—boy, girl, girl. And what would you like to talk about today?Laurel: I think I just love your whole—I've sent Derek a couple things—but I just love your whole premise of peacefulness and remaining calm when it's easy to get angry. Mm-hmm. And just some tools for doing that. I guess like some basic things, because we would both like to say where, you know, we have like, you know, the streaks where we're all calm, calm, calm, and then just—and then her, yeah, limit. Yeah.And so yeah, just tools for when that happens. We have very typical age-appropriate kind of response kids, mm-hmm, that need to be told 80 times something. And so it's frustrating. And then how to help them kind of see—without bribing, without threatening discipline, without all of that. Yeah. Like how to have a better dialogue with our kids of teaching respect and teaching kind of “we do this, you do this.”Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe. Okay. So there's always gonna be situations where it's hard to stay calm, you know? Just being a parent—like of course your kids are gonna push your buttons sometimes. But rather than—so, we do always start with self-regulation.And what I mean by self-regulation isn't that you never get upset. It's that when you do get upset, you know how to calm yourself and take a minute, take a breath—whatever you need to do—so that you don't yell. Because yelling hurts our relationship with our kids. You mentioned respect. I think there's an old idea of respect that used to mean that kids were afraid of their parents, right?But real respect is that you care what another person thinks. Like, that's real respect. I don't want to do this because I don't want my dad or my mom to be unhappy with me—not that I'm afraid of what's gonna happen if I do it, but I care what they think and they care what I think. And that's how I define respect. True respect doesn't mean that you're afraid of somebody; it means that you care what they think, right?So when we yell, we chip away at that. Like yeah, we could get them to do what we want through yelling or threatening things or taking things away, but we're chipping away at our relationship with them. And that's really the only true influence.And as your kids are getting older, you're gonna see that you can control them when they're little, right? Because you can pick them up and move them from one place to another or whatever. But there's a famous quote by a psychologist that says, “The problem with using control when kids are young is that you never learn how to influence them, which is what you need as they get older.” Right? You need to be able to influence them, to get them to do what you would like them to do. And it's all about the relationship. That's really what I see as the most important thing.So back to what I was saying about yelling—yes, that's really important to be working on—but there's also: how do I be more effective so the kids will listen to me and I don't have to ask 80 times? How do I get their attention in an effective way? How do I get them to cooperate the first time or at least the second time?So it's a combination of learning how to calm yourself and stay calm when things are hard, and also being more effective as a parent—not asking 25 times, because that just trains them to ignore you. Like, “Oh, I don't have to do it until they yell,” or “I don't have to do it until they've asked me 25 times.”If there's something really unpleasant you had to do at work that you didn't want to do, you might also ignore your boss the first 24 times they asked you until you knew they were really serious, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, you wouldn't, but you know what I mean. If they can keep playing a little bit longer, they will keep playing a little bit longer.So I think what would be helpful is if you gave me some situations that have happened that you find challenging, and then we can do a little bit of a deeper dive into what you could have done instead, or what you could do next time if a similar thing comes up.Laurel: Yeah. I mean, for my daughter, for example, the middle one—she's so sweet, she's such a feeler—but then when she gets to the point where she's tired, hungry, it's all the things. She often doesn't wanna pick out her clothes. Something super simple like that.But when I'm making lunches and the other kids are getting ready and all the things, I just have to have her—I'm like, “You're seven, you can pick out clothes.” I give her some options, and then she'll just lay on the floor and start screaming, “You don't care! Why don't you pick out my clothes?”And then instead of me taking the time that I know I need to, I just tell her, “You have one minute or else this—so you lose this.” I just start kind of like, “This is yesterday.” You know, so she doesn't wanna get dressed, doesn't wanna get her shoes on. “You get my socks, you get all the big—” And then I end up picking her up, standing her up, “You need to get dressed.” And then both of us are frustrated.Sarah: Yeah. No, that's a great example.So first of all, whenever there's difficult behavior in our child, we try to look below the surface to see what's causing it. The symptom you see on the outside is a kid lying on the floor refusing to do something she's perfectly capable of doing herself. That's the iceberg part above the water. But what's underneath that?To me, I'm seeing a 7-year-old who has a 3-year-old sibling who probably does get help getting dressed, a capable older brother, and it's hard to give enough attention to three kids. What I see this as is a bid for attention and connection from you.I don't know if you listen to my podcast, but I did an episode about when kids ask you to do things for them that they can do themselves. Seven is a perfect age because you're like, “Oh my God, you're so capable of getting dressed yourself—what do you mean you want me to put your shoes on you?” But if you can shift your mind to think, Ah, she's asking me to do something she can do—she needs my connection and nurturing.So what if you thought, “Okay, I just spent all this energy yelling at her, trying to get her to do it. What if I just gave her the gift of picking her clothes out for her and getting her dressed?” It would probably be quicker, start your day on a happier note, and you would have met that need for connection.And yes, it's asking more of you in the moment, because you're trying to make lunches. But this is a beautiful example because you'll probably see it in other areas too—what's underneath this difficult behavior? Kids really are doing the best they can. That's one of our foundational paradigm shifts in peaceful parenting. Even when they're being difficult, they're doing the best they can with the resources they have in that moment.So when someone's being difficult, you can train yourself to think: Okay, if they're doing the best they can, what's going on underneath that's causing this behavior?I just want to say one more thing, because later on you might think, “Wait—Sarah's telling me to dress my 7-year-old. What about independence?” Just to put your fears aside: kids have such a strong natural drive for independence that you can baby them a little bit and it won't wreck them. Everybody needs a little babying sometimes—even you guys probably sometimes. Sometimes you just want Laurel to make you a coffee and bring it to you in bed. You can get your own coffee, but it's nice to be babied and nurtured.So we can do that safely. And I tell you, I have a 14-year-old, 17-year-old, and 20-year-old—very babied—and they're all super independent and competent kids. My husband used to say, “You're coddling them.” I'd say, “I'm nurturing them.”Laurel: Oh, I like that.Sarah: Okay. So I just wanted to say that in case the thought comes up later. Independence is important, but we don't have to push for it.Derrick: Yeah. No, I think that's super helpful. And I love—one of my good buddies just came out with a book called The Thing Beneath the Thing.Sarah: Oh, I love that.Derrick: It's such a good reminder. I think sometimes, like you addressed, Laurel is often a single mom and there is the reality of—she's gotta make lunch, she's gotta do laundry, she's gotta whatever. And sometimes there's just the logistical impossibility of, “I can't do that and this and get out the door in time and get you to camp on time, and here comes the carpool.”And so sometimes it just feels like there needs to be better planning. Like, “You just gotta wake up earlier, you gotta make lunch before you go to bed, or whatever,” to have the space to respond to the moment. Because the reality is, you never know when it's coming.Like, totally independent, and she wants to pick out her own clothes in one example—but then all these things creep up.Another way to describe what Laurel and I were talking about in terms of triggers is: I feel like we both really take a long time to light our fuse. But once it's lit, it's a very short fuse.Sarah: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Derrick: So it's like for me especially, I'm cool as a cucumber and then all of a sudden the wick is lit and I'll explode.Sarah: Yeah. I think that's really good to be aware of. The thing is, if you go forward from today and start looking—you're calm, calm, calm, calm, calm—sometimes what's actually happening is what my mentor calls gathering kindling.We don't realize it, but we're gathering kindling along the way—resentment, eye-roll frustration. If you can start tuning in a little bit, you'll see that yeah, you're not yelling, but maybe you're getting more frustrated as it goes on. That's when you can intervene with yourself, like, “Okay, I need to take a five-minute break,” or, “We need to shift gears or tap each other out.”Because it feels like it comes out of nowhere, but it rarely does. We're just not aware of the building process of gathering kindling along the way.Derrick: Yeah. No, that's helpful. I have two examples that maybe you can help us with. You can pick one that you think is more important.Sarah: Sure. And I just want to comment on one more thing you said before you go on—sorry to interrupt you. If it's annoying to have to dress a 7-year-old in the middle of your morning routine, you can also make a mental note: Okay, what's under the thing? What's under the difficult behavior is this need for more connection and nurturing. So how can I fill that at a time that's more convenient for me?Maybe 7:30 in the morning while I'm trying to get everyone out the door is not a convenient time. But how can I find another time in the day, especially for my middle child? I've got three kids too, and I know the middle child can be a bit of a stirring-the-pot kid, at least mine was when he was little, trying to get his needs met. So how can I make sure I'm giving her that time she's asking for, but in more appropriate times?Derrick: Yeah, no, that's helpful. I think part of my challenge is just understanding what is age-appropriate. For example, our almost 10-year-old literally cannot remember to flush the toilet.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Derrick: And it's like, “Bro, flush the toilet.” It's been this ongoing thing. That's just one example. There are many things where you're going, “You're 10 years old, dude, you should know how to flush the toilet.” And then all the fears come in—“Is he ADD?”—and we start throwing things out there we don't even know.But it seems so simple: poop in the toilet, you flush it when you're done. Why is that? And that'll light a wick pretty quick, the third or fourth time you go in and the toilet's not flushed.Sarah: Yeah.Derrick: And then you talk about it very peacefully, and he'll throw something back at you.Sarah: So do you have him go back and flush the toilet?Derrick: We do.Sarah: Okay, good. Because if you make it a tiny bit unpleasant that he forgot—like he has to stop what he's doing and go back and flush it—that might help him in a kind and firm way. Like, “Oh, looks like you forgot. Pause your video game. Please go back and flush the toilet.”Also, maybe put up some signs or something. By the sink, by the toilet paper. There are just some things that, if they're not important to kids, it's very hard for them to remember. Or if it's not…I can't tell you how many times I've told my boys, “Don't put wet things in the hamper.” They're 17 and 20 and it drives me insane. Like how hard is it to not throw a wet washcloth in the hamper? They don't care if it smells like mildew.Derrick: Yeah.Sarah: It's very frustrating. But they're not doing it on purpose.Derrick: That's the narrative we write though, right? Like, you're just defiant, you're trying—because we've talked about this a million times. This is my desire.Sarah: And you feel disrespecedt.Derrick: Right.Sarah: That is so insightful of you, Derek, to realize that. To realize that's a trigger for you because it feels like he's doing it on purpose to disrespect you. But having that awareness and a mindset shift—he's not trying to give me a hard time. He's just absent-minded, he's 10, and he doesn't care if the poop sits in the toilet. He's just not thinking about it.Derrick: Yeah.I think the other example, which I'm sure is super common, is just: how do you manage them pushing each other's buttons? They can do it so quickly. And then it's literally musical chairs of explosive reactions. It happens everywhere. You're driving in the car, button pushed, explosion. The 3-year-old's melting, and Kira knows exactly what she's doing. Then Blake, then Kira. They just know. They get so much joy out of watching their sibling melt and scream. Meanwhile, you're in the front seat trying to drive and it's chaos.For me, that's when I'll blow my top. I'll get louder than their meltdown. And my narrative is: they're not even really upset, they're just turning it on to get whatever they want.Sarah: Classic sibling rivalry. Classic. Like, “How can I get Mom or Dad to show that they love me more than the other kid? Whose side are they gonna intervene on?” That's so classic.Kira came along and pushed Blake out of his preferred position as the baby and the apple of your eye. He had to learn to share you. Is it mostly Kira and Aubrey, or does everything roll downhill with all three?Derrick: It just triangulates and crosses over. They know each other's buttons. And you're right—it's always, “You always take her side. You never—”Sarah: Yes. And whenever you hear the words “always” and “never,” you know someone's triggered. They're not thinking clearly because they're upset and dysregulated.Sibling rivalry, or resentment, whatever you want to call it, is always about: “Who do they love more? Will my needs get met? Do they love me as much as my brother or sister?” That fear is what drives the button-pushing.It doesn't make sense that you'd pick a fight hoping your parent will choose you as the one who's right. But still, it's this drive to create conflict in hopes that you'll be the chosen one.So I could go over my sibling best practices with you guys if you want. That's really helpful for rivalry.Derrick: Yeah.Sarah: Okay. Do you currently have any rules about property or sharing in your house?Laurel: Not officially. I mean—Derrick: We typically will say stuff like, “That's Kira's. If she doesn't want to share it with you, give it back.” But the problem is we have so much community property.Sarah: Okay. That's what I call it: community property. Yeah. So you're doing exactly the right thing with things that belong to one person. They never have to share it if they don't want to, and other people have to ask before they touch it. Perfect.And in terms of community property, I'd suggest you have a rule: somebody gets to use something until they're done. Period. Long turns.I didn't know this when my kids were little, and I had ridiculous song-and-dance with timers—“Okay, you can have it for 10 minutes and then you can have it for 10 minutes.” But that actually increases anxiety. You want to relax into your play, not feel like, “Oh, I've only got this for 10 minutes.”So if it belongs to everyone, the person using it gets to use it as long as they want. And you empathize with the other person: “Oh, I know your brother's been playing with that pogo stick for an hour. It's so hard to wait, isn't it? When it's your turn, you'll have it as long as you want.”So if you have good sharing rules and community property rules right off the bat, you take away a lot of opportunities for resentment to build upDerrick: My biggest question is just how do you intervene when those rules are violated?Sarah: You just calmly say something like, “Oh, I know you really, really wanna play with the pogo stick. You cannot push your brother off of it just because you want a turn.” I'm just making things up here, but the idea is: you can't push your brother off just because you want something. Then you go back to the family rules. You could even make a sign—I actually have one I can send you to print out—that says, “In our family, we get to use it as long as we want.”And then you empathize with the aggressor about how hard it is to wait. Keep going back to the rules and offering lots of empathy. If someone's being difficult, recognize that they're having a hard time.Laurel, when Derrick said, “You always…” or “You never…,” anytime you hear words like that, you know somebody's hijacked by big feelings. That's not the time to make it a teachable moment. Just empathize with the hard time they're having. Nobody ever wants to calm down until they feel empathized with, acknowledged, and heard. You can always talk about it later if something needs to be discussed, but in the moment of heightened tension, just acknowledge feelings: “Oh my goodness, you were doing this thing and then your brother came and took it. This is so hard.”I also have a little ebook with these best practices laid out—I'll send it to you.The third best practice is: always be the moderator, not the negotiator. If there's a fight between the kids, your goal is to help them talk to each other. Don't try to solve it or say who's right or wrong. Even if you're right and careful not to favor one child, your solution will always fuel sibling rivalry. The child who wasn't chosen feels slighted, and the one who was chosen might think, “Dad loves me best.”So my phrase is: “Be Switzerland.” Stay neutral, intervene in a neutral way, and help them talk to each other. Give each child a chance to speak. Do you want to give me an example we can walk through?Derrick: A lot of times it's not even about taking, it's about disrupting. Aubrey has this baby doll she's obsessed with. She carries it everywhere—it looks really real, kind of creepy. Blake will walk by, pull the pacifier out of its mouth, and throw it across the room. Instant meltdown. His thing is, he knows the rules and how to toe the line. He'll say, “I didn't take the baby, I just disrupted it.”Sarah: Right, right.Derrick: And then, “Deal with it.”Sarah: Yeah, okay. So that's not exactly a “be Switzerland” moment, because it's not a two-way fight. He's just provoking his sister to get a rise out of her. That's classic sibling rivalry. It also sounds like he worries you don't love him as much as his sisters. Does he ever say that out loud?Laurel: He has sometimes. His other big thing is he doesn't have a brother, but they have each other. He constantly brings that up.Sarah: That's what I call a chip on his shoulder. When he provokes her like that, it's because he has feelings inside that make him act out. He's not a bad kid; he's having a hard time. Picking fights is often an attempt to get rid of difficult feelings. If we have a bad day and don't process it, we might come home cranky or pick a fight—it's not about the other person, it's about us.So I'd suggest having some heart-to-hearts with Blake, maybe at bedtime. Give him space to process. Say, “It must be really hard to have two little sisters and be the only boy. I bet you wish you had a brother.” Or, “I wonder if it's hard to share me and mom with your sisters. I wonder if it's hard being the oldest.” Share your own stories: “I remember when I was growing up, it was hard to be the big sister.” Or Derrick, you could share what it was like for your older sibling.The same goes for Kira: “It must be hard being in the middle—your big brother gets to do things you can't, and your little sister gets babied more.” The point is to let them express their feelings so they don't have to act them out by provoking.That provocative behavior is just difficult feelings looking for a way out. Your role is to open the door for those feelings. Say things like, “I know this must be hard. I hear you. You can always talk to me about your feelings. All your feelings are okay with me.” And you have to mean it—even if they say things like, “I wish they didn't exist,” or, “I wish you never had that baby.” That's totally normal. Don't be afraid of it. Resist the urge to offer silver linings like, “But sometimes you play so well together.” It's not time for optimism—it's time for listening and acknowledging.You can also say, “I'm sorry if I ever did anything that made you feel like I didn't love you as much as your sisters. I couldn't love anyone more than I love you.” You can say that to each child without lying, because it's true. That reassurance goes to the root of sibling rivalry.Derrick: That's really helpful. I'd love your insight on some of the things we're already doing. Lately, I've realized I spend more time in the girls' room at bedtime. Blake has his own room. He's more self-sufficient—he can read and put himself to sleep. For the past year, I've been reading in the girls' room instead, since they need more wrangling. So I've tried to switch that and spend more time in Blake's room reading with him. We've also started doing “mom dates” or “dad dates” with each kid.Sarah: That's perfect! My final best practice is one-on-one time. You're on the right track. It doesn't have to be a “date.” Special Time is 15 minutes a day with each child, right at home. You don't need to go to the aquarium or spend money. Just say, “I'm all yours for the next 15 minutes—what do you want to play?” Try to keep it play-centered and without screens.Laurel: Sometimes when we call it a “mommy date,” it turns into something big. That makes it hard to do consistently.Sarah: Exactly. You can still do those, but Special Time is smaller and daily. Fifteen minutes is manageable. With little ones, you might need to get creative—for example, one parent watches two kids while the other has Special Time with the third. You could even “hire” Blake to watch Aubrey for a few minutes so you can have time with Kira.Laurel: That makes sense. I did think of an example, though. What frustrates me most isn't sharing, but when they're unkind to each other. I harp on them about family sticking together and being kind. For example, last week at surf camp, both kids had zinc on their faces—Blake was orange, Kira was purple. She was so excited and bubbly that morning, which is unusual for her. In front of neighbor friends, Blake made fun of her purple face. It devastated her. I laid into him, telling him he's her protector and needs to be kind. I don't want to be too hard on him, but I also want him to understand.Sarah: Based on everything we've talked about, you can see how coming down hard on him might make him feel bad about himself and worry that you don't love him—fueling even more resentment. At the same time, of course we don't want siblings hurting each other's feelings. This is where empathic limits come in.You set the limit—“It's not okay to tease your sister because it hurts her feelings”—but you lead with his perspective. You might say, “Hey, I know people with color on their faces can look funny, and maybe you thought it was just a joke. At the same time, that really made your sister feel bad.” That way, you correct him without making him feel like a bad kid.Do you think he was trying to be funny, or was he trying to hurt her?Laurel: I think he was. He'll also reveal secrets or crushes in front of friends—he knows it's ammo.Sarah: Right. In that situation, I'd first empathize with Kira: “I'm so sorry your brother said that—it never feels good to be laughed at.” Then privately with Blake: “What's going on with you that you wanted to make your sister feel bad?” Come at it with curiosity, assuming he's doing the best he can. If he says, “I was just joking,” you can respond, “We need to be more careful with our jokes so they're not at anyone's expense.” That's correcting without shaming.Laurel: I love that. Sometimes I'm trying to say that, but not in a peaceful way, so he can't receive it. Then he asks, “Am I a bad kid?” and I have to backtrack.Sarah: Exactly—skip the part that makes him feel like a bad kid. Sensitive kids don't need much correction—they already feel things deeply. Just get curious.Laurel: That makes sense. Correcting without shaming.Sarah: Yes.Laurel: We also tried something new because of the constant questions. They'll keep asking: “Can I do this? Can I watch a show?” We got tired of repeating no. So now we say, “I don't know yet. Let me think about it. But if you ask again, the answer will be no.” Is that okay?Sarah: I used to say, “If I have to give a quick answer, it's going to be no.” I'd also say, “You can ask me as many times as you want, but the answer will still be no.” With empathy: “I know it's hard to hear no, but it's still no.” Another thing I said was, “It would be so much easier for me to say yes. But I love you enough to say no.” That helped my kids see it wasn't easy for me either.Laurel: That's helpful. Another thing: our kids do so much—they're busy and around people a lot, partly because of our personalities and being pastors. We try to build in downtime at home, but often after a fun day they complain on the way home: “Why do we have to go to bed?” They don't reflect on the fun—they just want more.Sarah: That's totally normal. You could go to an amusement park, eat pizza and ice cream, see a movie, and if you say no to one more thing, they'll say, “We never do anything fun!” Kids are wired to want more. That's evolutionary: quiet kids who didn't ask for needs wouldn't survive. Wanting isn't a problem, and it doesn't mean they'll turn into entitled adults.Kids live in the moment. If you say no to ice cream, they fixate on that, not the whole day. So stay in the moment with them: “You really wanted ice cream. I know it's disappointing we're not having it.” Resist the urge to say, “But we already did all these things.”Laurel: I love that. We even started singing “Never Enough” from The Greatest Showman, and now they hate it. It feels like nothing is ever enough.Sarah: That's normal.Laurel: I also want to bring it back to peaceful, no-fear parenting. I can be hard on myself, and I see that in my kids. I don't want that.Sarah: If you don't want your kids to be hard on themselves, model grace for yourself. Say, “I messed up, but I'm still worthy and lovable.” Being hard on yourself means you only feel lovable when you don't make mistakes. We want our kids to know they're lovable no matter what—even when they mess up or bother their siblings. That's true self-worth: being lovable because of who you are, not what you do. That's what gives kids the courage to take risks and not stay small out of fear of failure. They'll learn that from your modeling.Laurel: That makes sense.Sarah: And I've never, ever seen anyone do this work without being compassionate with themselves.Laurel: Hmm. Like—Sarah: You can't beat yourself up and be a peaceful parent.Laurel: Yeah, I know. Because then I'd see them doing it. It's like, no, I don't. Yeah. Yeah. I purposely don't want you guys to be that way. Yeah. That's great. Those are all good things to think about. I think the other questions I can tie back to what you've already answered, like being disrespectful or sassiness creeping in—the talking back kind of stuff. And that's all from, I mean, it stems from not feeling heard, not feeling empathized with.Sarah: Totally. And being hijacked by big feelings—even if it's your own big feelings of not getting what you want. That can be overwhelming and send them into fight, flight, or freeze. Sassiness and backtalk is the fight response. It's the mild fight. They're not screaming, hitting, or kicking, but just using rude talk.Laurel: Hmm. And so same response as a parent with that too? Just be in the moment with their feelings and then move on to talking about why and letting them kind of—Sarah: Yeah. And empathizing. Just like, “Ah, you're really…” Say they're saucy about you not letting them have some ice cream. “You never let me have ice cream! This is so unfair! You're so mean!” Whatever they might say. You can respond, “Ugh, I know, it's so hard. You wish you could have all the ice cream in the freezer. You'd eat the whole carton if you could.” Just recognize what they're feeling. It doesn't have to be a teachable moment about sugar or health. You can just be with them in their hard time about not getting what they want. And they'll get through to the other side—which builds resilience.Laurel: How do you discipline when it's needed—not punish, but discipline? For example, a deliberate rule is broken, somebody gets hurt, or stealing—like when it's clear they know it was wrong?Sarah: You want to help them see how their actions affect other people, property, or the community. That's where they internalize right and wrong. If you give them a punishment for breaking something, that only teaches them how their actions affect them—not how their actions affect others. That makes kids think, “What's in it for me? I better not do this thing because I don't want to get in trouble,” instead of, “I better not do this because it will hurt my sister or disappoint my parents.” So punishments and imposed consequences pull kids away from the real consequences—like someone getting hurt or trust being broken.You really want to help them understand: “The reason why we have this rule is because of X, Y, Z. And when you did this, here's what happened.” If they have a problem with the rule, talk about it together as a family. That works much better than punishment.Laurel: We had an incident at church where our 10-year-old was talking about something inappropriate with another kid. The other parent reached out, and I feel like we handled it okay. We talked with him, he was open, and we discussed what was said. Then we apologized to that parent in person and had a conversation. It didn't feel like we were forcing him to do something bad or shaming him.Sarah: That's good—it's about making a repair. That's always the focus. Without knowing the whole situation, I might not have said apologizing to the parent, because technically the parent wasn't directly involved. But if your son was willing and it felt authentic, that's great. What matters is the outcome: repair. Sometimes parents suggest an apology to make the child feel ashamed so they'll “remember it,” but that's not helpful. The question is: does the apology or repair actually improve the situation? That's what you keep in mind.Laurel: Well, thanks for all your wisdom.Sarah: You're welcome. It was really nice to meet you both.Part 2:Sarah: Welcome back, Laurel and Derek. Thanks for joining again. How have things been since our first coaching call?Laurel: Yeah. I feel like we gained several really good nuggets that we were able to try. One of them was about my daughter in the mornings—not wanting to get dressed, feeling stuck in the middle and left out. I've gotten to stop what I'm doing and pay attention to her. Even this morning, she still had a meltdown, but things went faster by the end compared to me being stubborn and telling her to do it on her own.Sarah: So you dropped your end of the power struggle.Laurel: Yeah. And it felt great because I wasn't frustrated afterward. I could move on right away instead of also blowing up. If we both blow up, it's bad. But if she's the only one, she can snap out of it quickly. I can't as easily, so it usually lingers for me. This way, it was so much better.We've had some challenging parenting moments this week, but looking at them through the lens of making our kids feel worthy and loved helped us respond differently. One thing you said last time—that “the perpetrator needs empathy”—really stuck with me. I always felt like the misbehaving child should feel our wrath to show how serious it was. But we were able to love our kids through a couple of tough situations, and it worked.Derrick: For me, the biggest takeaway was the “kindling” metaphor. I've even shared it with friends. Before, I thought I was being patient, but I was just collecting kindling until I blew up. Now I recognize the kindling and set it down—take a breath, or tell the kids I need a minute. This morning on the way to soccer, I told them I needed a little pity party in the front seat before I could play their game. That helped me calm before reengaging.Sarah: That's fantastic. You recognized you needed to calm yourself before jumping back in, instead of pushing through already-annoyed feelings.Laurel: Yeah. We did have questions moving forward. We had a couple of situations where we knew our kids were lying about something significant. We told them, “We love you, and we need you to tell the truth.” But they denied it for days before finally giving in. How do we encourage truth-telling and open communication?Sarah: Kids usually lie for three reasons: they're afraid of getting in trouble, they feel ashamed or embarrassed, or they're afraid of disappointing you. Sometimes it's all three. So the focus has to be: we might be unhappy with what you did, but we'll just work on fixing it. When they do admit the truth, it's important to say, “I'm so glad you told me.” That helps remove shame.Natural consequences happen without your involvement. If they take money from your wallet, the natural consequence is that you're missing money and trust is broken. But adding punishments just teaches them to hide better next time.Derrick: How do you frame the difference between a consequence and a boundary? Like if they mess up in an environment and we don't let them back into it for a while—is that a consequence or a boundary?Sarah: In peaceful parenting, we talk about limits. If they show they're not ready for a certain freedom, you set a limit to support them—not to punish. A consequence is meant to make them feel bad so they won't repeat it. A limit is about guidance and support.The way to tell: check your tone and your intent. If you're angry and reactive, it will feel punishing even if it's not meant to be. And if your intent is to make them suffer, that's a punishment. If your tone is empathetic and your intent is to support expectations, it's a limit.Derrick: That's helpful. Sometimes we beat ourselves up wondering if we're punishing when we're just setting limits. Your tone-and-intent framework is a good check.Sarah: And if you mess up in the moment, you can always walk it back. Say, “I was really angry when I said that. Let's rethink this.” That models responsibility for when we act out while triggered.Derrick: That's good.Sarah: You mentioned sibling rivalry last time. Did you try the “It's theirs until they're done with it” approach?Derrick: Yes—and it's like a miracle. It worked especially in the car.Sarah: That's great. I know car rides were tricky before.Laurel: What about mantras to help us remember not to let our kids' behavior define us as parents—or as people?Sarah: What you're talking about is shame. It's when we feel unworthy because of our kids' behavior or what others think. We have to separate our worth from our kids' actions. Even if your child is struggling, you're still a good, worthy, lovable person.Laurel: Almost the same thing we say to our kids: “You are worthy and lovable.”Sarah: Exactly. So when you feel yourself going into a shame spiral, remind yourself: “Even though my child did this thing, I am still worthy and lovable.” Hold both truths together.Laurel: Yes. That helps. One last question: mornings. School starts in a day, and we worry every morning will be a struggle with Kira. She resists everything—getting dressed, socks, breakfast. Then she's fine once we're in the car. How can we help her set her own boundaries about mornings?Sarah: It sounds like she gets anxious around transitions. She doesn't do well with being hurried. That anxiety overwhelms her, and she goes into fight mode—pushing back, lashing out.Laurel: Yes, that's exactly it.Sarah: So part of it is adjusting your routine—giving her more time in the morning. But another part is building resilience. The anti-anxiety phrase is: “We can handle this.” Remind her, “Even if it's not going how you wanted, you can handle it. We can do hard things.” Add in laughter to ease tension.And maybe accept that for now, you might need to spend 10 minutes helping her get dressed. That's okay. You can balance it by giving her extra nurturing at other times of the day so she doesn't seek it as much during rushed mornings.Derrick: That's good.Sarah: Thank you both so much. I've loved these conversations.Derrick: Thank you, Sarah.Sarah: You're welcome. It's been wonderful. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sarahrosensweet.substack.com/subscribe

Kiera is joined by Dr. Lauryn Brunclik (of She Slays the Day podcast fame) to take a good hard look at clinician burnout, different sides of the working mindset coin, generational styles of work, and so much more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am so excited about our guest that's going to be on the podcast with me today. She is incredible. We're going to be talking about all things burnout, how to avoid it, how to just like live your best life. And so I have Dr. Lauryn Brunclik. She's an entrepreneur, chiropractor, business coach, podcast host, wife, mother, and sought-after speaker known for her high energy. You guys know that this is why I like her. mean, we're birds of the same feather, straightforward attitude and ability to make people laugh while discovering their truth.   In 2010, she founded Blue Hills Chiropractic building into a thriving seven figure practice. But after years of relentless hustle, she found herself overworked, tied to her clinic and craving more freedom. Dentist, can you relate? Now you see why I brought her on here. Now you can see why I want her here. ⁓ she truly is very similar to all of you out there. She was determined to create a business that worked for her, not the other way around. Lauryn built multiple revenue streams, streamlined her operations and reclaimed her time without sacrificing income.   She took that passion and launched She Slays the Day, a podcast helping professionals and clinic owners break free from burnout by creating multiple revenue streams, recleaning time and building financial and lifestyle freedom. So welcome to the show, Lauryn. How are you today?   Dr. Lauryn B (01:07) Thank you. As you   were reading that is so funny because like in this world of virtual assistants and AI, I'm always like, what bio is she reading? And I'm like kind of holding my breath like, ⁓ and I'm like, okay, yep, that's true. That's true. this is good. I did really get sad and burnt up. It's like, I just went on a journey with you while you're reading my bio.   Kiera Dent (01:25) Usually both.   You and me both. was on a podcast the other day and I had the exact same feeling because they were reading my bio and I was like, huh, I'm super curious. Like which bio did you get? And wow, yeah, like I did just get to go down memory lane. but   Dr. Lauryn B (01:40) You're   like, that's a good bio. Good job, AI. Good job. Which is like always waiting for like the wrong thing where it's like, no, I didn't do a stint as a clown or anything. No, that's not true. That's not true. So.   Kiera Dent (01:49) Exactly.   I, Shelbi got us connected and I was super excited and you know, I was looking up on it and she's like, here, I think you and Lauryn are going to have the best time on the podcast. She's like, you two are birds of the same feather, the high energy, the tactical, the like we talk about it's like life on purpose and business on purpose and not having it to where it's the other way around. I say all the time, like your business should be working for you, not the other way around. It should be supporting your life. So I'm just super jazzed. So Lauryn.   Dr. Lauryn B (02:04) Mm.   Kiera Dent (02:17) I mean, that was a great bio. agree like kudos to AI, virtual assistant, whomever wrote it for you. Kudos to you for living that actual bio and being the human on the other side of that. So anything else you want to add? I mean, we're here today to chat shop. We're here to ⁓ share with your audience, our audience, and just really collaborate together and talk about some things that you're super passionate about and that I am too.   Dr. Lauryn B (02:22) Right.   Yeah, so I think that one of the things is that, you you kind of address of like, I think you probably typically have more dentists on   of thing and your audience is like, wait, what's happening? So I started as a coach for chiropractors, you   Kiera Dent (02:51) you   Dr. Lauryn B (02:56) this is, I see this a lot of what we do ⁓ as especially high achieving people, you know, we spend a lot of money and time getting this degree. And then we kind of, when we start to get   bored, burnt out, ADHD, whatever it is in our career where there's this kind of a couple years in and you're like, wait, is this on repeat? What we tend to do is we repurpose our current knowledge set. And so it's like, I have this degree in this, so I'm gonna start a podcast for those people, right? And so that was kind of my experience too. She Slays the Day started as a podcast for chiropractors.   But then I started to realize like as we were having these conversations and you you're just networking, you're meeting. And I started to talk to dentists and veterinarians and you know, realizing like, ⁓ you guys deal with the same shit we do? I had an ENT on a private practice, ENT ⁓ on the podcast, on my podcast because I was following him on Instagram because he was hilarious, but I was like.   Kiera Dent (03:51) Yeah.   Dr. Lauryn B (04:02) you're dealing with the same stuff we do. And ultimately, that's kind of where I expanded in 2023 to be more for healthcare providers outside the traditional hospital system, because it's like, none of us learned business. Like, we, while we were doing anatomy and infectious disease and all of this stuff, there were people outside in the college getting like MBAs and entire business degrees.   Kiera Dent (04:18) Exactly.   Dr. Lauryn B (04:31) And we didn't take a single class. we just, there's such this atmosphere of shameful entrepreneurship. What I mean by that is like, especially within chiropractic, and I've talked to vets and dentists as well, that's like, well, if you're not gonna own your own clinic, are you even like really that good? And so there's this forced entrepreneurship in a society where only 10 % of   Kiera Dent (04:54) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (05:01) people truly have the grit and resilience for the shit show that is ⁓ entrepreneurship. But you have like 80 to 90 % of a profession going into it. And so it's just so natural that it's like, we didn't learn this stuff. It's so natural that burnout is such a common thing. So that's where really it's like, I've realized that like, yeah, I promise you that the same stuff we're dealing with, you're dealing with too because I've had these conversations.   Kiera Dent (05:13) Right.   Amen. And it's actually funny, and I didn't mention this prior, but we actually consulted a chiropractic office and we've consulted eye clinics and ⁓ optometrists and we've gone into CPA clinic firms. And I realized business is business is business and healthcare business is very similar. I think we do ⁓ outside of mainstream medicine, which is our chiropractic, our vets, our dentists.   We're not in the hospital setting. We have more of that autonomy to have our own practices and our own businesses and I agree with you. It is a I think I think the memes out there with business ownership are so accurate the ones where you're on a roller coaster and they're like it's the highs and the lows the ones we're like holding on for dear life and you're like giggling and then crying all within a matter of seconds and I'm like that is the role that is the realm and so that's why I really wanted us to collaborate together Lauryn to talk about because   What you see in chiropractic, what I see in dentistry, what we see across the board of these incredible clinicians. like you, go to school, you learn, you, you have all this experience in this knowledge. And like you said, It does not train you to be a business owner. yet also, like you said, it's well, why not? Like, and I think that that is kind of the, it's like for team members, like you want to graduate to be the office manager. You want to be the regional manager. You want to get to that level. Like that's where you like it. There's a ladder ascension. And I think in business ownership and with   Like you wanted to be a chiropractor because you wanted to help people. You wanted to be a dentist because you want to help people. You want to be a vet because you want to help people. You want to be an ENT because you want to help people. But it's, think that there's this unsaid natural ladder that people feel there's a push to go for a business ownership when it's like, but I just want to be a clinician. I just wanted to, to do my craft, but I also wanted to do it my way. And that's where I think the business ownership vibe comes in. But you're right. It's, it's stressful, not having profits, not having   understanding cashflow, not understanding how to run teams. Like awful.   Dr. Lauryn B (07:20) The number of people,   doc, clinic owners that have been in practice for 10 plus years that I am teaching what profit margins are and what is healthy and how to calculate it is astounding. It's like, So, you know, I think that ultimately when you, you know, the different personality types, you know, when they find themselves in practice,   Kiera Dent (07:31) Yes. Yes.   Yes.   Dr. Lauryn B (07:46) I feel like they almost burn out for two completely different reasons. So let's say that you have, know, so 80 % of humans are just more meant to be more like caregivers, supporter roles. I would guess that that's even higher in someone who's called into healthcare, right? That like, they went into this, believe me, if you are about to decide what you should do with your life and you are like, I'm an entrepreneur and I wanna be.   Kiera Dent (08:05) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (08:15) rich. Do not go into chiropractic. Do not go into dentistry. There is so much easier ways to make money. like 99 point whatever percent of people are called to this profession in healthcare because they want to serve. So let's say you start your clinic. There's a good chance you're going to burn out from one of two reasons. One, you don't want to run a clinic. You truly   And that's what's burning you out, is that you're just like, I am here for the patients. I want to pour into the patients and I want to serve and I want to do that. But like, I have to hire another front desk person? Didn't we just do that last year? I don't know what the ad should say. I don't know what we should pay them. Or like there's office drama and you're like, I have to create a SOP on that, what? And so that will burn you out because so much of being the CEO and the clinic owner is like,   pulling you away from patient care. So you either have to divide your patient care down or in half so you have time and now you're spending half of your time not doing what you wanna do or you just pile on the admin stuff on top of it so you're working 60 hours a week. So that person, obviously they burn out. Now the other one is I think a much more, like is much more my personal story and I'm so curious as to like why you started the podcast, why you started doing what you're doing but like.   Kiera Dent (09:30) Mm-hmm. Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (09:43) So this is, I was not someone that like was a natural entrepreneur. Like I never would have, you there's certain people you hear these stories where they're like, I'm kindergarten. was like, you know, I'm like, no, that wasn't me. Like I had no idea until really after I, you know, I started my practice, but that was out of convenience. Cause there was no job. Like I had kids and like somewhere along the line, the entrepreneurship bug just got me.   Kiera Dent (09:56) Hahaha!   Dr. Lauryn B (10:13) And then all of a sudden, that's what I wanted to be doing. Like I wanted to be scaling, looking at marketing strategy, looking at like growth projections, creating higher, like I wanted to do that. But then like Barb needs me in a room too. And I'm like, like I love, okay, I like serving. Yes, yes, yes. But like I really.   Kiera Dent (10:36) Yeah.   Dr. Lauryn B (10:41) This is what was exciting to me. And so then, and this is where I'll kind of like be vulnerable and share my story, because I know from stage that this helps people, people see this, but it's embarrassing to admit, but the patient care became boring. The patient care became repetitive. Like in the beginning, you're like, ⁓ how do I fix this? And like, you're not getting results, how do I do that? And it was this problem, like new problems to solve.   But once you've been doing it, five, seven years, I mean, for everybody it's different, you're kind of like, I can do that on autopilot. And it wasn't challenging a part of my brain that wanted to solve new problems. And so there was a lot of shame and guilt that came with, because at this point, I've been in practice seven years. I'm in my early 30s. Okay, well, you're doing this for the next 30 years. And I was like, I can't.   Kiera Dent (11:38) Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (11:39) can't do this for the next 30 years. And so that's just like, whichever side a clinic owner sees themself in, like, you you're not safe on either. You have to figure out burnout on either side, but ⁓ they're completely different reasonings. And I think understanding what, why are you feeling that burnout is really important.   Kiera Dent (12:04) Yeah, I love that you talked about both sides of the coin because I think there's guilt at least from what I see working with dentists working at myself. They actually got like I've heard I don't know like where this is coined but it's like the seven year itch or stitch like there's like you just kind of get into this and some people get it at five years some people get it at 10 years but there is ⁓ I also love Tony Robbins when he says like progress equals happiness.   Dr. Lauryn B (12:20) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (12:29) And so if we're not progressing and some people love it, they love the autopilot of patient care is easy for me. But like when you first get out of school, all of that is hard. It's a puzzle. You're progressing. You've got to figure out how do you navigate and get patients to say yes to treatment? How do I run my books? Like how, like there's so much how, how, how to, how do I like serve my patients better? How do I make this for dentists? It's like, do I make that perfect crown margin? Like, how do get that perfect? I imagine in chiropractor, I'm actually a chiropractor.   all the time. I love her. She's incredible. We do talk business often. She's a fee for service. And I'm like, let's talk shop on like going fee for service versus in network, like, just like dentists, right, the fee for service versus in network. And it's how can I make this body like looking at people that have weird symptoms and trying to figure out how can I fix that? Like, I know there's a way to fix this long term. ⁓ But also the like annoyance of running a business and also be like,   need for growth. I really love and I never thought about those two sides of the coin until you mentioned that of that really is what causes people to stress. And I think that there is guilt on both sides. I think there's guilt of I want to be with patient care and I don't want to run the business, but I know I have to like, this is kind of the, the card I signed up for. And then the other side of I want to leave the chair. I had a dentist the other day and one of our masterminds say to me, I only want to work two or three days, but I feel guilty because my team's working five days. And I was like,   Dr. Lauryn B (13:52) That's   a really common one.   Kiera Dent (13:54) so good. And the great news is you built the business, like you provided them the job, like you've created that. That does not mean you need to stay in the day to day, five days a week, like whatever is best for you as the business owner and creator. And that can shift and morph. But there is a lot of guilt. I think that that creates, like you said, a lot of shaming and thanks for being vulnerable on that because I think so many people can relate to that. I think when people are listening, they're like, yes, yes. Like, I feel either side of that and   I think people don't know how to get out of it. So instead it's just this like, let me keep doing the same. ⁓ let me listen to other podcasts. Let me see if other people are like me. And I'm sure it's the same in chiropractic dentistry. say that it's like this isolated Island and I'm so grateful for podcasts. I'm grateful for communities, but I still think people feel that way because you're day in day out in your own clinic, in your own practice by yourself, even though you maybe know there's a few other islands out there that are maybe similar to you. ⁓ but I think it's such a, I think that's also business too.   Dr. Lauryn B (14:36) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (14:52) I don't think it's just being ⁓ a provider in your own practice. I business entrepreneurs feel this way as well, like, how can everybody else figure this out? And I don't feel like I can. ⁓   Dr. Lauryn B (15:00) And you have no idea that they haven't figured it out. I was at   a seven figure female mastermind a month ago. so it's all seven figure females all over the board, as far as like industry striving to get to eight figures. And like, there were so many moments at this retreat that every single person just felt like their business was duct taped together. And it's just like, everybody's just doing their   Kiera Dent (15:07) you   Dr. Lauryn B (15:29) absolute damn best. And so it is really, ⁓ but you know, I wonder how much of how much of this burnout conversation has to do with like generational differences. You know, like, I'm assuming that you are a millennial. Yeah. And yeah, I know, we really are the best. really are. Don't tell everybody else, but we are the best generation. ⁓   Kiera Dent (15:46) Mm-hmm. Yep. I like the emojis. I'm here for all the millennial vibes. Like, I'm here for all of them. I feel like I really fit it.   Dr. Lauryn B (15:59) And so I will point this out on stage a lot because when you're talking, giving continuing ed, you'll have a lot of, Gen X is still in the workforce. Like they are still here. from the time I was in school up until like the last couple of years, they really were a lot of the stage presence at conferences.   Kiera Dent (16:12) Mm-hmm.   Yes.   Dr. Lauryn B (16:28) And so you being a millennial would sit and really just get advice, business success, career advice through the lens of Gen X. And why that's something that we just have to be aware of is like each generation has a very different script that they have downloaded, like they've just absorbed kind of.   automatically without putting too much thought into, know, it's just like the culture of their generation. And Gen X was like, shut up, don't complain about it. There is work life balance. Like your career is the most important thing. Like raising your kids, like you have a spouse for that and you will enjoy your life once you have accumulated enough money.   And if you've done it right, that'll happen by your like 60, between 60 and 65. But the goal is to hustle, hustle, hustle, accumulate, accumulate, accumulate at all costs. You can enjoy your life if you need a second, if you need to get a divorce and you just get a new spouse in your sixties, that's what like, and so like not trying to give them shit or anything. Their work ethic is phenomenal. My favorite employees are Gen X. Yeah. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (17:41) I always love to hire them. I was like, perfect, come on in, you're gonna work forever. Like, it's great, amazing.   Dr. Lauryn B (17:47) So they're great. But then like we come in and you know, I know that in chiropractic now 50 % of graduates are females. Do you know what that is in dentistry?   Kiera Dent (17:58) Dentistry   actually tipped over. There's more females that are graduating than there are men. It just recently tipped this scale, which I was quite impressed by, which is awesome. So it's exciting.   Dr. Lauryn B (18:09) It's so cool,   but we're kind of screwed because we as millennials, we're not going to not have children. We're not going to delegate that completely to somebody else. I mean, my husband, I'm definitely the primary breadwinner in my husband's profession or career has like molded to what our family needs are, but like.   Kiera Dent (18:13) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (18:35) So we're not gonna do that, we're not gonna do that, like we're not gonna give up our career. And so it's not like we're complaining about work-life balance, it's just a necessity. We're like, no, no, no, it's not like I'm like, like I, it's like, no, this isn't I want to raise my child, it's I have a child, I have to raise them also and the business. And so like we're trying to figure out, like, well, I can't follow that script.   Kiera Dent (18:47) Right.   Dr. Lauryn B (19:05) that script that we saw from stage for so long is just like, that's not gonna work for me. we're trying, that's why everything feels duct taped together is because we actively reject it. We were given a script to follow, like work six days a week, just do it. And we're like, nah, I don't want that. And it's like, okay, well then we're literally creating a new path. And so to any millennial, I would say like, if it just feels   Kiera Dent (19:15) Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (19:34) messy, this probably isn't a youth thing. This is like, are truly carving a brand new way to do things, which we're kind of wasting our time because Gen Z is coming in like, no, I'm not doing that either. And we're like, we're fixing this for you. And they're like two months into their, yeah, they're like two months into their profession and like, ooh, 30 hours a week? That's not gonna work for me.   Kiera Dent (19:44) was going to say, they're coming right behind. Exactly.   They're like, no, no, no, no. We see that. We're not doing that either.   Yeah, not happening.   No, they're like, I could be a YouTube, like I could I could do all these different things. I can be an influencer for like five hours a week and make way more than you are not here for that.   Dr. Lauryn B (20:10) And you're like, well,   I don't know how to solve this for you.   Kiera Dent (20:13) they're like AI,   why are guys like still doing stuff yourselves? Like, no, we're gonna have robots to do all this stuff for us. Like, absolutely not. It's incredible. Like, good. But I don't disagree with you. I think it's ⁓ and as you said that I thought about how agreed and I think every generation actually makes it better from the last and I do agree that ⁓ I don't know, I started thinking about it. This struck me about probably, I don't know, eight years ago. And I'm like,   Dr. Lauryn B (20:20) He probably will. Like, damn it.   Kiera Dent (20:42) my gosh, like people used to get married because they needed to be married. Like you used to have to have like a husband and a wife to be able to have kids. And I'm like, you don't need that anymore. There's IVF, there's ⁓ different things that you can do. You do not need anybody anymore to live the life you want to live. It's very much becoming this like self ability. But I'm like, our parents couldn't do that. I mean, women even coming to the forefront to be able to have businesses.   to own land in our name. Like that has not been a long change and shift for women to be here. And then I also think that there's a whole dynamic for women as well coming into this scene. Like you said, they are coming in there. We're, having stronger professions. are being stronger business owners. We're like the kid having children is being delayed much longer in life. And so I do think it's a, a walking through and not understanding like where are we even supposed to go? Because what we've seen as the model isn't the model for us anymore.   like that doesn't work. Our lives look different. I mean, my mom, didn't work a lot of my friends moms didn't work or if they did, they worked at the schools or they didn't work like high level powered careers, a lot of them and I'm so excited that women are coming into the workforce and because there's so much talent and beauty. But I do think that there's a whole dynamic and for men too. think that the whole shifting like you said, a lot of women are becoming breadwinners. They do.   Dr. Lauryn B (21:41) Mm-hmm.   yeah, they want to be dads. Like that's the   thing too is like, they're like, hey, I just cause I'm a dude doesn't mean like I'm okay with missing my kid's childhood. It truly is a generational shift.   Kiera Dent (22:11) Exactly   Exactly. And so I think I just through all of it, I think you're highlighting what makes me excited. And the reason I'm just like jazzed about this today is it's normal. It's okay. And there's solutions around it. And also, I think just aha moments of, my gosh, like maybe this is why. And I do agree. Generations behind the millennials, you're probably giggling at our conversation right here. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys don't even know what you're talking about. But I think like we're in it. Exactly.   Dr. Lauryn B (22:41) Hey, we say you don't know what you're talking about.   Kiera Dent (22:44) I'm like, but we're in it and there has to be a solution here.   Dr. Lauryn B (22:44) Hey! I have the microphone.   Kiera Dent (22:48) Who's on this podcast and who's listening? All right. I think when I look at that, I'm like, but for millennials, think that they're, and most generations probably feel this. think we're a taffy stretch between one way of thinking and a new way of thinking. And we're kind of that like middle child syndrome right now where we really are trying to carve that new path that's making it easier for other generations behind us to see easier modalities.   But I do think that that kind of tug of war, I mean, I feel it, you felt it. We've had our personal experiences through it. We see people, we coach people through this, we work with people. But I also think in a way life has become easier to learn. I don't know how you feel. And like easier with air quotes, meaning there's so many things that do things for us. Like washer and dryers were so great for our parents' generations. But I'm like, for us, we now have, like you said at the beginning, we have AI that's writing bios for us. We've got virtual assistants that are doing it.   There's ways, like you said, there's easier ways to make money outside of just doing your day in, day out, eight to five job now. There's different ways that we can build retirement. There's ways like the Airbnb market and having real estate investments. Like there's so many different ways that I feel like wealth is oftentimes easier to achieve. But I think with that, because there's so many things and not to say that it's perfectly easy, but I think as we conquer in life, just like the washer and dryer, the cell phone, like those things were conquering big problems.   Google coming in and the internet taking over, those conquered a lot of challenges. I think so much of today's challenge, and I don't know how you feel, Lauryn. This is like Kiera going off on her own soapbox. I feel like you said so much of it now is our mind and that space of centeredness, of balance, ⁓ not having to work all the time. I think a lot of jobs have shifted from labor jobs to mental labor jobs. So we're not having as much physical.   Dr. Lauryn B (24:32) Hmm.   Kiera Dent (24:35) Like you said, patient care can be a lot of just like mindless. I miss the days sometimes of being a dental assistant, sitting there and having like hours of time to dream of all these ideas to where now I feel like I wish and crave for that quietness that my mind never gets anymore. And so I feel like even with some of those shifts and how we work and how our family needs are in the necessities of family dynamics in, we don't need to work clear up to 65, but people are able to retire now at 35, 40. And then it's like, now what, what am I supposed to do? So also then finding your purpose in life.   I think you combine all that into a cluster storm and voila, welcome to millennial dilemma. Like, you know, we can coin that of what do people do? How do they, how do they exist? And I think the future generations coming will have even more of this at more grand scale. So it's like, let's have conversations of how do we prevent that burnout? How do we have the conversations about not working in like having nothing left to give to our families of having that balance? Like you said, if I want to run the business and I want to progress, but I also want to be a human at the same time.   So Lauryn, think you're more the expert at this than I am. I'm just here for the like great conversations and talking it through because I think it's such a necessary conversation that now is starting to really bubble to the surface out of necessity and also out of curiosity and also out of like desire to fix this and not have it be our day in day out norm anymore.   Dr. Lauryn B (25:54) Yeah, well, so I'm gonna say another kind of controversial thing then. ⁓ So you touched on it and like with any time, we don't love, as care providers, we don't wanna come across as greedy, right? And so what we end up doing is like, we'll just be like, it would be great to be wealthy, but like not too much, like I don't need to be rich, and you didn't do this or anything like this, but like.   Kiera Dent (25:57) Ready, I love this.   Dr. Lauryn B (26:22) other people is just like, yeah, I would like to make a little more money. ⁓ so part of my story, ⁓ I'll give you the very short version, was ⁓ we had our most successful revenue year ever. And it was with like the least amount of money I had taken home in like seven years. Yeah, yeah, we call this payroll bloat. You need to fix your pricing structure so we could talk about pricing increases.   Kiera Dent (26:42) Happens all the time, all the time.   Dr. Lauryn B (26:50) And so like I'm a cash clinic. So like this was my own fault. This was, I set my prices and I just did a bad job at it. And so part of like, if when people are like, well, how did you like, were you burnt out? And I was like, yeah, I was burnt out at like 32. And you're like, are you burnt out? I'm like, no, I freaking love what I do now. I still serve patients 10 hours a week. actually.   as of last week went down to like seven. We got a chef, yay. So I still serve patients like seven hours a week. I still spend probably like three hours a week ⁓ running meetings and like running the clinic. ⁓ But now we have other investments. ⁓ Whereas that clinic portion that used to be all of our eggs were in that basket.   Kiera Dent (27:22) I'm not.   Dr. Lauryn B (27:46) Right? So like, as we had kids, my husband left corporate consulting to help our family and clinic grow. So all of our eggs were in this one basket of whether the clinic does well that quarter or not. we want to remodel the kitchen? Better go get some more new patients. Like, want to go to Disney? It's not in the budget, but like, ugh, like all of these things. And we're not even talking about time freedom. Like we're just talking about like the key to burnout is having time freedom and   financial freedom. When I'm working with docs, the ones that are like the hardest to fix are not the ones that are like, I am working 60 hours a week. I have like oodles of money that I know should be like, I should be doing something with in, but it's just like $50,000 in this bank account. And like, I wish I had time to go to Disney, but I don't, I don't want to belittle that. That is a different kind of burnout.   Kiera Dent (28:32) Mm-hmm.   Right,   it is.   Dr. Lauryn B (28:45) and   everybody right now is playing a little sad song for you, but I relate to you, we can fix this. But the harder ones are the ones that are broke. Like being broke, and this has to do with like just core psychological, like I reference Maslow's hierarchy of needs a lot in my talks because like.   Kiera Dent (28:49) Mm-hmm.   I agree.   Mm-hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (29:07) You cannot get to the tip, the Maslow's for those of us that took Psych 101 10 years ago is the triangle where at the top is enlightenment and at the bottom is like your base survival, food, water, shelter. And if you are broke, now granted, monks, I'm sure they can figure out how to have enlightenment without having food, water, shelter. Most of us cannot, okay? We are doctors and there is a certain amount of debt.   Kiera Dent (29:12) Mm-hmm.   I agree.   Dr. Lauryn B (29:34) and a certain amount of expectation is maybe the right, I don't know if that's the right word, with like, I'm gonna serve people and this career is gonna take care of me. I'm gonna go into debt and it's a lot of debt, but this career is gonna take care of me. I'm gonna care for people, as long as I focus on serving, the career will take care of me. And we have too many people that it's just not. And they're like, I...   did not realize that I was going to struggle this much financially. These are not people that are like, can't afford a yacht. These are people like truly who are like my margins for financial investing and building wealth are a lot more narrow than I thought they were going to be. And that's a harder thing to fix, but that...   Kiera Dent (30:22) Hmm.   Dr. Lauryn B (30:27) is a deeper kind of burnout that we just need to be more comfortable. Again, following generational stuff, Gen X, like we don't talk about money, right? That was the script that we got from them of like, you just focus on the patients and the patients will take care of you. And you're like, ⁓ okay, so we don't talk about money. And then millennials are like, I think we need to start talking about money. I think we need to start talking about money because if you were being paid,   Kiera Dent (30:38) Bye.   Hahaha!   Dr. Lauryn B (30:56) whatever you feel is appropriate. If you were feeling wealthy. And again, I'm not talking about that. I'm not putting on you that like you feel like you need to be making $3 million a year. Like, although that is my goal for next year is 3 million. just, but like, you know, just so we're clear, that is my literal goal for next year. So you can want that. You have permission to want that if you want, but we're talking about like, I don't know. Maybe if you made $500,000 a year, life would be a little easier and you could breathe.   Kiera Dent (31:10) Yeah, exactly.   Dr. Lauryn B (31:26) And if you can literally financially breathe, you have more bandwidth   make calm decisions for your business. Where you don't feel like if you have a bad quarter, you're gonna have to lay someone off. And like that's one of the first steps to helping most people   burnout or recover from burnout.   is like, we gotta talk about money and we gotta fix your personal financial situation because if you're constantly in a place of fight or flight   you can give yourself an extra 10 hours a week and time to be the CEO if all you're doing is worrying about how you're gonna make payroll. Like, it's not, you're not gonna   from burnout.   Kiera Dent (32:22) think that that was such a good ⁓ way that you highlighted it. And I'm just very curious now, like, how's the how, because agree, like people, what you're saying, Lauryn, I can tell you've lived the like the life. This is something that you've done, you've been there, you can speak to it so authentically. I've been there many times. And I'm always like, I want our doctors to get paid so well. I see how much you go into school for debt.   I see the, and I think that that's a different piece too, if we're to talk generational, people who are not walking out like half a million debt.   Dr. Lauryn B (32:55) And y'all are way worse than us,   right? Like what's the average dentist, like 350?   Kiera Dent (33:01) Average dentists right now are coming out at almost half a mil of debt when they walk in. It's bonkers.   Dr. Lauryn B (33:05) That is bonkers, you guys. Like when I heard that, because I posted a reel that went   so viral and it was just about like healthcare debt and reimbursement rates. And that's when I learned they were like, 250? Talk to a dentist. And I was like, wait, why? How long? And they were like, yeah, 350 minimum. And I was like,   Kiera Dent (33:25) Yeah.   Dr. Lauryn B (33:30) That's insane. That's insane.   Kiera Dent (33:32) That's insane.   And then you go buy a practice. So the practice that I helped start with a dentist straight out of school, we were, I called her 2.5. I got to walk by and I'm like, get that spine up like you're 2.5. We were 2.5 mil in debt. So that was coming with student loans. So schooling was 500,000. Living expenses during that time were about another, you know, two to 500. So like they're walking out with this.   $500, $600, $700,000 worth of debt, not just including your schooling, but all of life expenses, because you're probably not working while you're going to school. And then we went and bought a practice that's about a $2 million practice. So we were like 2.5, not like we were 2.5 in debt. I was like, keep that spine up, like put your hands up when you walk across the street, like you've got to keep those hands in motion because otherwise how are we going to get out of debt? And I think for me, when I look at that much debt,   when I look at that much risk and I look at the benefits that healthcare providers are giving, I'm like, no. And I tell teams all the time, I'm you want your doctor to be ridiculously wealthy. Like I do, and I preach this hard and I say, no, you should and you deserve it. And we want you that way because you're a better boss, you're a better clinician, you are better at doing your services because you're not stressed about making money. So we're not like you said, like, I want to go to Disney, let me go find more patients. I get.   No, I have confident, predictable payroll or cash flow. I'm very successful in what I do and you can make the margins there. Like I was the girl who did business that did not understand numbers. And now I say like, I love numbers and numbers definitely love me. And I'm like, it's now just a fun math equation. If I want to make X amount, you just back it down. You figure out what your costs are and you figure out the three levers you can use. We either drop our overhead, increase our production and or our collections. Like it's very simple when I'm like, okay, got it.   Dr. Lauryn B (35:05) and   Kiera Dent (35:17) Like got it when it's just those three levers, people make it so much more complex. And I think it does feel complex. Like reading a PNL is ridiculous. If you don't know what that is, that's okay. We're here where there's no judgment. It's a profit and loss statement. And I love educating people on this. Like this is where the fire in the belly comes. This is where it does. We get lit up because when I have someone who's cashflow positive, like you said, they can make calm decisions. They're not sitting here stressing all the time, but Lauryn, I'm very curious. Like you've talked about it at length. Like what do people do? Like what's the how, how do we get into this?   How do we have multiple streams because agreed all eggs in one basket? gosh. It's, ⁓ to me, that's like just a ticking time bomb. Like one bad day, one bad patient, one bad procedure. Like it's just going to explode because you're sitting like you're sitting on the edge of fear all the time to where you are in like cortisol adrenaline, like you are pumping. And then what you do is you go into complete shutdown because you can't handle it anymore. So your body and your system literally like just shuts down on you. You become apathetic to life.   Dr. Lauryn B (35:54) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (36:15) things aren't exciting for you anymore. You become very numb to walking through the world. And it's like, I feel like the world of color goes into very like gray. It's very subtle. It's like, it's, there's no, there's no life left. It's just, are living life, but you're not actually being and living day in, out.   The Dental A Team (36:33) that wraps part one of our part two series. Be sure to tune back in for part two of this podcast. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

This week, catch a movie in Downtown Disney, the Evil Queen is coming to a tiki mug, cast members are recognized as Disney Legacy Award recipients, a new place outside of the parks to enjoy some nighttime entertainment, celebrate Thanksgiving with some characters, we talk to Creative Director Brandon from Spirit Jersey, and more! Please support the show if you can by going to https://www.dlweekly.net/support/. Check out all of our current partners and exclusive discounts at https://www.dlweekly.net/promos. News: Downtown Disney is the place to be in October! The shopping district will be hosting movie nights, presented by M&M's. The movies will be shown at 7PM at the Downtown Disney LIVE! stage on October 1, 8, 15, 22, and 29th. During the movie nights, a limited-time Disney Wonderful World of Sweets cart will be open offering treats for the movie. – https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2025/09/24/why-every-fan-will-be-running-to-downtown-disney-next-month/ Yet another tiki mug is coming to the Disneyland Resort for the Halloween season! The new mug features the Evil Queen on one side and the Old Hag on the other. The Old Hag is holding a poison apple! The first opportunity to get this tiki mug will be through mobile order for pickup at the Disneyland Hotel Grand Ballroom starting at 6am Disneyland Time on October 1st. Pickup windows will be from 4pm to 9pm. The mug designer, Artist Florian Bertmer will be on hand to sign mugs on October 1st, starting at 5pm. The second chance will be at Trader Sam's Enchanted Tiki Bar on October 2nd. There is a limit of 2 per transaction, while supplies last. – https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2025/09/22/why-disney-tiki-mug-fans-are-marking-their-calendars-for-october-1st/ https://www.micechat.com/424379-disneyland-update-halloween-christmas-price-cuts/ A new group of cast members from Disneyland have been recognized as Walt Disney Legacy Award recipients. Only 1% of all cast members receive this prestigious award. This year, a well-known cast member joined the ranks. Steve Finley, best known as the cast member who drives the fire engine on Main Street, was recognized. Joining Steve is Hank Ameen, who we have spoken about previously as being the longest tenured cast member at Disneyland. Alondra Chavez Castaneda from Main Gate Reception, and Carol Vincent a Merchandise Hostess at Company D were also added to the ranks. – https://disneyparksblog.com/dlr/legacy-award-recipients-at-disneyland-resort/ A new location to catch the Halloween Screams fireworks is coming this Halloween season. On select nights, visitors to the Disneyland Resort can experience the nighttime spectacular from the Pixar Place Hotel rooftop deck. There is no requirement to be a guest at the hotel, and there is no purchase required. The soundtrack for Halloween Screams will be played on the deck during the show. – https://www.micechat.com/424379-disneyland-update-halloween-christmas-price-cuts/ We always talk about the confectionary display in the lobby of the Grand Californian Hotel and Spa. This year, the Disneyland Hotel is getting in on the act. A 5-foot-tall Mickey pumpkin, made of 60 pounds of chocolate, 55 pounds of rice cereal, 30 pounds of marshmallows, and 120 founds of fondant, sits in the lobby. – https://www.laughingplace.com/disney-parks/mickey-pumpkin-confectionery-disneyland-hotel/ Weeklyteers who might want to have Thanksgiving with their extended Disney family have an opportunity. Goofy's Kitchen is hosting a special Thanksgiving Meal. The meal features a Thanksgiving Day buffet for brunch, or dinner on November 27. Booking opens up for this on October 9th. Visit the link in the show notes for all the details. – https://www.laughingplace.com/disney-parks/goofys-kitchen-thanksgiving-2025/ A popular location at the Grand Californian is now delayed until early 2026. Napa Rose has been undergoing renovations since April of this year, and was originally scheduled to reopen this fall. When the location reopens, it will feature expanded counters to watch the chef's in action, natural textures such as reclaimed oak flooring and columns, hand-pinged artisan metals, leathers, deep cabernet colors, and an eye-catching chandelier. The patio will be expanded with more seating and two fireplaces, allowing guests to be surrounded by soft lighting and lush greenery. – https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2025/09/24/disney-delays-reopening-of-a-popular-restaurant/ TriviaLand: Ghost Host Voice Actress: https://www.instagram.com/p/DPIZ1UbkYlA/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D SnackChat: The Pizza Counter – https://disneyland.disney.go.com/dining/downtown-disney-district/the-pizza-counter/menus/lunch-and-dinner/ https://dadsguidetowdw.com/pizza-counter Earl of Sandwich Tavern – https://disneyland.disney.go.com/dining/downtown-disney-district/earl-of-sandwich-tavern/menus/breakfast/ Discussion Topic: Creative Director of Spirit Jerseys Brandon Ptasznik https://www.spiritjersey.com/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode summary Joe and Mary dive into how platform censorship and shifting algorithms have reshaped psychedelic media, why DoubleBlind moved to a “newsletter-first” model, and what that's revealed about true audience engagement. They reflect on the post-2024 MDMA decision headwinds, state-level policy moves (wins and losses), and how funding, politics, and culture continue to reconfigure the field. They also explore alternatives to alcohol, chronic pain research, reciprocity around iboga/ibogaine, and lessons from PS25 (MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2025). Highlights & themes From platforms to inboxes: Social and search suppression (IG/FB/Google) throttled harm-reduction journalism; DoubleBlind's pivot to email dramatically improved reach and engagement. Post-MDMA decision reality: Investment cooled; Mary frames it as painful but necessary growth—an ecosystem “airing out” rather than a catastrophic pop. Policy pulse: Mixed year—some state measures stalled (e.g., MA), others advanced (e.g., NM; ongoing Colorado process). Rescheduling cannabis may add complexity more than clarity. Censorship paradox: Suppressing education makes use less safe; independent outlets need community support to keep harm-reduction info visible. Chronic pain & long COVID: Emerging overlaps and training efforts (e.g., Psychedelics & Pain communities) point beyond a psychiatry-only frame. Alcohol alternatives: Low-dose or occasional psychedelic use can shift habits for some; Mary stresses individual context and support beyond any single substance. Reciprocity & iboga: Rising interest (including from right-leaning funders) must include Indigenous consultation and fair benefit-sharing; pace of capitalism vs. community care is an active tension. PS25 field notes: Smaller, more manageable vibe than 2023; fewer “gold-rush” expectations; in-person dialogue beats online flame wars. Notable mentions DoubleBlind: Newsletter-first publishing; nurturing new writers and reported stories. Psychedelics & Pain Association / Clusterbusters: Community-driven models informing care and research (cluster headache protocols history). Books & media: Body Autonomy (Synergetic Press anthology); Joanna Kempner's work on cluster headaches - Psychedelic Outlaws; Lucy Walker's forthcoming iboga film. Compounds to watch: LSD (under-studied relative to MDMA), 2C-B, 5-MeO-DMT (synthetic focus), and broader Shulgin-inspired families.   Mary Carreon: [00:00:00] Okay, I'm gonna send it to my dad because he wants to know. Here Joe Moore: we go. Yeah, send it over. So, hi everybody. We're live Joe here with Mary Anne, how you doing today? Mary Carreon: I'm great Joe. How are you? Joe Moore: Lovely. I actually never asked you how to pronounce your last name does say it right? Mary Carreon: Yes, you did. You said it perfectly Joe Moore: lovely. Joe Moore: Um, great. So it's been a bit, um, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch X and Kick, I guess. Yeah. Kick meta. Meta doesn't let me play anymore. Um, Mary Carreon: you're in forever. Timeout. I got it. I got it. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. I think they found a post the other day from 2017. They didn't like, I'm like, oh cool. Like neat, you Mary Carreon: know, you know. Mary Carreon: Yeah. That happened to me recently, actually. Uh, I had a post taken down from 2018 about, uh, mushroom gummies and yeah, it was taken down and I have strikes on my account now. So Joe Moore: Do you get the thing where they ask you if you're okay? Mary Carreon: Yes, with, but like with my searches though, [00:01:00] like if I search something or, or someone's account that has, uh, like mushroom or psychedelic or LSD or something in it, they'll be like, mm-hmm are you okay? Mary Carreon: And then it recommends getting help. So Joe Moore: it's like, to be fair, I don't know if I'm okay, but Yeah, you're like, probably not. I don't really want your help. Meta. Yeah. Mary Carreon: You're like, I actually do need help, but not from you. Thanks. Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: So not from the techno fascists. Joe Moore: Oh, good lord. Yeah. Uh, we'll go there. Joe Moore: I'm sure. Mary Carreon: I know. I just like really dove right there. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so let's, Joe Moore: um, before we go, let's give people like a bit of, you know, high kicks on, on who is Mary, where you working these days and what are you doing? Mary Carreon: Yeah, thank you. My name is Mary Carryon and I am forever and first and foremost a journalist. Mary Carreon: I have been covering, I say the plant legalization spaces for the past decade. It's, it's been nine and a half years. Uh, on January 3rd it will be [00:02:00] 10 years. And I got my start covering cannabis, uh, at OC Weekly. And from there went to High Times, and from there went to Mary Jane, worked for Snoop Dogg. And then, uh, I am now. Mary Carreon: Double blind. And I have become recently, as of this year, the editor in chief of Double Blind, and that's where I have been currently sinking my teeth into everything. So currently, you know, at this moment I'm an editor and I am basically also a curator. So, and, and somebody who is a, uh, I guess an observer of this space more than anything these days. Mary Carreon: Um, I'm not really reporting in the same way that I was. Um, but still I am helping many journalists tell stories and, uh, I feel kind of like a story midwife in many ways. Just like helping people produce stories and get the, get the quotes, get the angles that need to be discussed, get the sentences structures right, and, um, uh, helping [00:03:00] sometimes in a visionary kind of, uh, mindset. Mary Carreon: So yeah, that's what I'm doing these days. Joe Moore: Oh, there it is. Oh, there you are. Love that. And um, you know, it's important to have, um, editors who kind of really get it from a lot of different angles. I love that we have a lot of alignment on this kind of, and the drug war thing and kind of let's, uh, hopefully start developing systems that are for people. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. If you wanna just say that. Yeah, absolutely. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Joe Moore: So, um, yeah, I almost 10 years in January. That's great. We um, it's so crazy that it's been that long. I think we just turned nine and a half, so we're maybe just a few, a few months shorter than your I love it. Plant medicine reporting career. Joe Moore: That's great. I love it. Um, yeah, so I think. I think one of the first times we chatted, [00:04:00] um, I think you were doing a piece about two cb Do you, do you have any recollection of doing a piece on two cb? Mary Carreon: I do, yes. Yes. Wait, I also remember hitting you up during an Instagram live and I was like, are you guys taking any writers? Mary Carreon: And you guys were like writers, I mean, maybe depending on the writer. Joe Moore: And I was like, I was like, I dunno how that works. Mary Carreon: Like me. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun to work with people like yourself and like get pieces out there. And eventually we had an awesome editor for a bit and that was, that was really cool to be able to like support young startup writers who have a lot of opinions and a lot of things to point out. Joe Moore: There's so much happening. Um, there was so much fraud in like wave one. Of kind of the psychedelic investment hype. There's still some, but it's lesser. Um, and it's really a fascinating space still. Like changing lives, changing not just lives, right? Like our [00:05:00] perspective towards nearly everything, right? Joe Moore: Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because the space has matured. It's evolved. It's different than it was even, what a, I mean, definitely nine years ago, but even five years ago, even four years ago, even last year, things are different. The landscape is different than it was a year ago. Mary Carreon: And I, it's, it's interesting to see the politics of things. It's interesting to see who has money these days given like how hard it is just to kind of survive in this space. And it's interesting just to. Bear witness to all of this going down because it really is a once in a lifetime thing. Nothing is gonna look the same as it does now, as it, uh, then it will like in a, in a year from now or anything. Mary Carreon: So it's really, yeah. It's interesting to take account of all of this Joe Moore: That's so real. Uh, maybe a little [00:06:00] too real, like it's serious because like with everything that's going on from, um, you know, governance, governments, ai Yes. Drug policy shifts. Drug tech shifts, yes. There's so much interesting movement. Um, yes. Joe Moore: You, you know, you, you kind of called it out and I think it's really actually worth discussing here since we're both here on the air together, like this idea that the psychedelic market, not idea, the lived experience of the psychedelic market having shifted substantially. And I, I, I think there's a lot of causes. Joe Moore: But I've never had the opportunity to really chat with you about this kind of like interesting downturn in money flowing into the space. Mm-hmm. Have you thought about it? Like what might the causes be? I'm sure you have. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've thought about it. I mean, it's hard. Well, I don't know. I am really not trying to point fingers and that's not what I'm [00:07:00] trying to do here. Mary Carreon: But I mean, I think a lot of people were really hopeful that the FDA decision last June, not last June, the previous June, a year ago, 2024, June was going to open the floodgates in terms of funding, in terms of, um. In terms of mostly funding, but also just greater opportunities for the space and, uh, greater legitimacy granted to the psychedelic medicine space. Mary Carreon: Mm. And for those who might not know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, FDA decision to reject, uh, MDMA assisted therapy and, um, that whole, that whole thing that happened, I'm sure if it, you didn't even have to really understand what was going on in order to get wind of that wild situation. Mary Carreon: Um, so, so maybe, yeah. You probably know what I'm talking about, but I, I do think that that had a great impact on this space. Do I think it was detrimental to this space? [00:08:00] I don't think so. We are in a growth spurt, you know, like we are growing and growing pains happen when you are evolving and changing and learning and figuring out the way forward. Mary Carreon: So I think it was kind of a natural process for all of this and. If things had gone forward like while, yeah, there probably would be more money, there would be greater opportunity in this space for people wanting to get in and get jobs and make a living and have a life for themselves in this, in this world. Mary Carreon: I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would necessarily be for the betterment of the space in general for the long term. I think that we do have to go through challenges in order for the best case scenarios to play out in the future, even though that's difficult to say now because so many of us are struggling. Mary Carreon: So, but I, but I have hope and, and that statement is coming from a place of hope for the future of this space and this culture. Joe Moore: Yeah. It's, um, I'm with [00:09:00] you. Like we have to see boom bust cycles. We have to see growth and contraction just like natural ecosystems do. Mary Carreon: Absolutely, absolutely. It has to be that way. Mary Carreon: And if it's not that way, then ifs, if. It's, it like what forms in place of that is a big bubble or like a, a hot air balloon that's inevitably going to pop, which, like, we are kind of experiencing that. But I think that the, I think that the, um, the, the air letting out of the balloon right now is a much softer experience than it would be if everything was just like a green light all the way forward, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: So, Joe Moore: right. And there's, there's so many factors. Like I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, metas censorship like we were talking about before. Yes. Other big tech censorship, right? Mm-hmm. SEO shifts. Mary Carreon: Oh. Um, yes, absolutely. Also, uh, there were some pretty major initiatives on the state level that did not pass also this past year that really would've also kind of [00:10:00] helped the landscape a little bit. Mary Carreon: Um. In terms of creating jobs, in terms of creating opportunities for funding, in terms of having more, uh, like the perception of safer money flow into the space and that, you know, those, those things didn't happen. For instance, the measure for in Massachusetts that didn't go through and just, you know, other things that didn't happen. Mary Carreon: However, there have been really good things too, in terms of, uh, legalization or various forms of legalization, and that's in New Mexico, so we can't, you know, forget that there, and we also can't forget just the movement happening in Colorado. So there are really great things happening and the, the movement is still moving forward. Mary Carreon: Everything is still going. It's just a little more difficult than maybe it could have been Joe Moore: right. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yes. But also, we Mary Carreon: can't forget this censorship thing. The censorship thing is a horse shit. Sorry. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cuss, but it is, [00:11:00] but it is Joe Moore: calling it out and it's important to say this stuff. Joe Moore: And you know, folks, if you want to support independent media, please consider supporting Doubleblind and psychedelics today. From a media perspective, absolutely. We wanna wanna put as much out as we can. Yes. The more supporters we have, the more we can help all of you understand what's happening and yes. Joe Moore: Getting you to stay safer. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole difficulty with the censorship is that psychedelics today, and Doubleblind for instance, but also Lucid News, also other, uh, other influencers, other creators in the space, they like. What all of us are doing is putting out information that is ultimately creating a safer user experience. Mary Carreon: And so with the censorship, we are not able to do so anymore, which creates actually a lot of danger. So. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. The censorship is difficult, and if you are somebody who posts about psychedelics, I know that you know this and I am preaching to the choir. Joe Moore: Yeah. So can you talk a [00:12:00] little bit about you all at Double Blind made a major shift in the last number of months towards, uh, kind of not necessarily putting everything out there and, and kind of like, um, actually I don't even know the language you use. Joe Moore: What's the, what's the language you use for the kind of model shift you took on? Mary Carreon: Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's been a wild shift. It's been a wild shift. Um, what we are currently doing is we went to a newsletter first model, which instead of just posting onto a website for everyone to see, and then, um, you know, hopefully getting SEO hits and also posting on their, then posting those stories onto Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and hoping to get traffic through social media. Mary Carreon: Uh, we decided that that was no longer working for us because it wasn't, um, because the censorship is so bad on, on social media, like on Instagram, for instance, and Facebook and Twitter, well, less on Twitter, [00:13:00] but still, nonetheless on social media, the censorship is so bad. And also the censorship exists on Google. Mary Carreon: When you Google search how to take mushrooms, double blinds is not even on. You know, our guide is not on the first page. It's like, you know, way the heck, way the heck down there. Maybe page 2, 3, 4, 5. I don't know. But, um, the issue, the issue with that, or, or the reason why rather that it's that way is because Google is prioritizing, um, like rehabilitation centers for this information. Mary Carreon: And also they are prioritizing, uh, medical information. So, like WebMD for instance. And all of these organizations that Google is now prioritizing are u are, are, are, are organizations that see psychedelic use through the lens of addiction or through drug drug abuse. So [00:14:00] again, you know, I don't know, take it for how you want to, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna tell anybody like what is the right way to use their substances or whatever. Mary Carreon: However, it's really important to have the proper harm reduction resources and tools available. Uh, just readily available, not five pages down on a Google search. So anyways, all of that said double blind was our traffic was way down. And it was looking very bleak for a while. Just we were getting kicked off of Instagram. Mary Carreon: We weren't getting any traffic from social media onto our website, onto our stories. It was a, it was a vicious kind of cycle downward, and it wasn't really working. And there was a moment there where Doubleblind almost shut down as a result of these numbers because there's a, like you, a media company cannot sustain itself on really low page views as a result. Mary Carreon: So what we [00:15:00] decided to do was go to a newsletter first model, which relies on our email list. And basically we are sending out newsletters three days a week of new original content, mostly, uh, sometimes on Wednesdays we repost an SEO story or something like that. Um, to just to engage our audience and to work with our audience that way, and to like to actually engage our audience. Mary Carreon: I cannot emphasize that enough because on Instagram and on Facebook, we were only reaching like, I don't know, not that many people, like not that many people at all. And all of that really became obvious as soon as we started sending out to our email list. And as soon as we did that, it was wild. How many, how many views to the website and also how many just open like our open rate and our click through rate were showing how our audience was reacting to our content. Mary Carreon: In other words. [00:16:00] Social media was not a good, in, like, was not a good indicator of how our content was being received at all because people kind of weren't even receiving it. So going to the newsletter first model proved to be very beneficial for us and our numbers. And also just reaching our freaking audience, which we were barely doing, I guess, on social media, which is, which is wild, you know, for, for a, an account that has a lot of followers, I forget at this exact moment, but we have a ton, double blind, has a ton of followers on, on Instagram. Mary Carreon: We were, we, we get like 500 likes or, you know, maybe like. I don't know. If you're not looking at likes and you're looking at views, like sometimes we get like 16 K views, which, you know, seems good, but also compared to the amount of followers who follow us, it's like not really that great. And we're never reaching new, like a new audience. Mary Carreon: We're always reaching the same audience too, [00:17:00] which is interesting because even with our news, with our, with our email list, we are still reaching new people, which is, which says just how much more fluid that space is. Mm-hmm. And it's because it's, because censorship does not at least yet exist in our inboxes. Mary Carreon: And so therefore email is kind of like the underground, if you will, for this kind of content and this type of material journalism, et cetera. So, so yeah. So it, it, it has been a massive shift. It is required a lot of changes over at double blind. Everything has been very intense and crazy, but it has been absolutely worth it, and it's really exciting that we're still here. Mary Carreon: I'm so grateful that Double-Blind is still around, that we are still able to tell stories and that we are still able to work with writers and nurture writers and nurture the storytelling in this space because it needs to evolve just the same way that the industry and the [00:18:00] culture and everything else is evolving. Joe Moore: Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on like the, when I watch our Instagram account, like, um, I haven't seen the number change from 107 K for two years. Mary Carreon: Absolutely. Same. And, um, same. Joe Moore: Yeah. And you know, I think, I think there's certain kinds of content that could do fine. I think, uh, psychedelic attorney, Robert Rush put up a comment, um, in response to Jack Coline's account getting taken down, um, that had some good analysis, um. Joe Moore: Of the situation. Go ahead. You had No, Mary Carreon: no, I'm just like, you know, I can't, when, when journalists are getting kicked off of these, of these platforms for their stories, for their reported stories, that's like, that is a massive red flag. And that's all I have to say. I mean, we could go into more, more details on that, but that is a [00:19:00] huge red flag. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for sure. The, I, yeah. And like I'm sure he'll get it back. I'm sure that's not for good, but I think he did. Okay, great. Mary Carreon: I think he did. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Joe Moore: Yeah. So thank you. Shout out to Jack. Yeah, thanks Jack. Um, and I think, you know, there's, there's no one with that kind of energy out there. Joe Moore: Um, and I'm excited to see what happens over time with him. Yeah. How he'll unfold. Absolutely unfold. Oh yeah. It's like, um. Crushing the beat. Mary Carreon: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially the political, the political beat. Like, there's no, there's few people who are really tackling that specific sector, which is like mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: So exciting for a journalist. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so model shifting, like we all have to like, adapt in new ways. Kyle and I are still trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Like maybe it is newsletter first. Like I, I realized that I hadn't been writing for [00:20:00] years, which is problematic, um, in that like, I have a lot of things to say. Mary Carreon: Totally. Joe Moore: And nobody got to hear it. Um, so I started a substack, which I had complicated feelings about honestly. 'cause it's just another. Rich person's platform that I'm, you know, helping them get Andreessen money or whatever. And, you know, so I'm gonna play lightly there, but I will post here and there. Um, I'm just trying to figure it all out, you know, like I've put up a couple articles like this GLP one and Mushrooms article. Mary Carreon: I saw that. I saw that. Really? And honestly, that's a really, like, it's so weird, but I don't, like, it's such a weird little thing that's happening in the space. I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that is going to evolve. It's um, you know, a lot of people, I, I briefly kind of wrote about, um, psychedelics and the GLP, is that what it is? Mary Carreon: GLP one. Joe Moore: GLP one. Say Ozempic. Yeah, just, yeah, Ozempic. Yeah, exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah, exactly. I wrote about [00:21:00] that briefly last year and there were a bunch of people like obviously horrified, which it is kind of horrifying, but also there's a bunch of people who believe that it is extremely cutting edge, which it also is. Mary Carreon: So it's really interesting, really fascinating. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I remember Bernie Sanders saying like, if this drug gets as much traction as it needs to, it will bankrupt Medicaid. I guess that's not really a problem anymore. Um, but, but, uh, but so like naming it real quick, like it changed the way we had to digest things, therefore, like mushrooms get digested differently and, um, some people don't respond in the expected ways. Joe Moore: And then there was some follow up, oh, we, in the regulated model, we just do lemon tech. And then I was like, is that legal in the regulated model? And I, I don't know the answer still. Mm-hmm. Like there was a couple things, you know, if users know to do it, you know, I don't, I don't totally understand the regulated model's so strange in Oregon, Colorado, that like, we really need a couple lawyers opinions. Joe Moore: Right. I think Mary Carreon: yes, of course Joe Moore: the lawyers just gave it a [00:22:00] thumbs up. They didn't even comment on the post, which is, laughs: thanks guys. Um, Joe Moore: but you know, laughs: yeah. You're like, thank you. Joe Moore: Thanks and diversity of opinions. So yeah, there's that. And like GLP ones are so interesting in that they're, one friend reached out and said she's using it in a microdose format for chronic neuroinflammation, which I had never heard of before. Joe Moore: Whoa. And um, I think, you know, articles like that, my intent was to just say, Hey, researchers yet another thing to look at. Like, there's no end to what we need to be looking at. Abso Mary Carreon: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, reporting on this space actually taught me that there's so much just in general that isn't being researched, whether that's in this space, but also beyond and how, um, yeah, just how behind, actually, maybe not, maybe behind isn't the right word, but it kind of feels from my novice and from my novice place in the, in the world and [00:23:00] understanding research, it's. Mary Carreon: Hard for me to see it as anything, but being behind in the research that we all really need, that's really going to benefit humanity. But also, you know, I get that it's because of funding and politics and whatever, whatever, you know, we can go on for days on all of that. Joe Moore: What's the real reason? What's the real reason? Joe Moore: Well, drug war. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely the drug war. Nixon. Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely the drug war. Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that even all of the drug research that happens is, again, through the lens of addiction and drug abuse, so Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Hard to right. Yeah. Um, like ni a is obviously really ridiculous and, and the way they approach this stuff, and Carl Hart illustrates that well, and, Mary Carreon: oh man, yes, he does. Joe Moore: Like, I think Fadiman's lab in Palo Alto got shut down, like 67, 66 or 67, and like that's, you know, that was one of the later ones, Mary Carreon: right? And, Joe Moore: and like, Mary Carreon: and here we are. Joe Moore: The amount of suffering that could have been alleviated if we [00:24:00] had not done this is. Incalculable. Um, yes. Yes. Yeah. Mary Carreon: I mean the, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how specifically it would be different, but it's difficult to also not think that the fentanyl crisis and the opioid addiction rate and situation that is currently like plaguing the, the world, but particularly the United States, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be, like, it wouldn't be a different scenario altogether. Joe Moore: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, and it's, um, it's interesting to speculate about, right? Like Yeah. Yes. Where would we be? And Mary Carreon: I know, I know, I know, I know it is speculation. Absolutely. But it's like hard, as I said, it's hard not to think that things would be different. Joe Moore: Right. Right. Um, I like, there's two kind of quotes, like, um, not, this one's not really a quote. Joe Moore: Like, we haven't really had a [00:25:00] blockbuster psychiatric med since Prozac, and I think that was in the eighties or early nineties, which is terrifying. And then, um, I think this guy's name is James Hillman. He is kinda like a Jungian, um, educator and I think the title of one of his books is, we're a hundred Years Into Psychotherapy and the World is Still a Mess. Joe Moore: And I think like those two things are like, okay, so two different very white people approaches didn't go very far. Yes. Um, yes and laughs: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: Thankfully, I think a lot of people are seeing that. Mm-hmm. Um, finally and kind of putting energy into different ways. Um, Mary Carreon: yeah. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, we need to be exploring the other options at this point because what is currently happening isn't working on many fronts, but including in terms of mental health especially. Mary Carreon: So mm-hmm. We gotta get going. Right? We [00:26:00] gotta get moving. Geez. Joe Moore: Have you all, have you all seen much of the information around chronic pain treatments? Like I'm, I'm a founding board member with the Psychedelics and Pain Association, which has a really fun project. Oh, that's interesting. Mary Carreon: Um, I've seen some of the studies around that and it's endlessly fascinating for obvious, for obvious reasons. Mary Carreon: I, um, we have a writer who's been working for a long time on a story, uh, about the chronic pain that has since. Become an issue for this, for her, for the writer. Mm-hmm. Um, since she had COVID. Mm-hmm. Since, since she is just like, COVID was the onset basically of this chronic pain. And, um, there she attended a psychedelics in pain, chronic pain conference and, uh, that has pretty much like, changed her world. Mary Carreon: Um, well, in terms of just the information that's out there, not necessarily that she's painless, but it's just, you know, offering a, a brand new, a brand new road, a brand new path that is giving her, [00:27:00] um, relief on days when the pain is, uh, substantial. laughs: Yeah. Mary Carreon: So that's interesting. And a lot of people are experiencing that as well. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So there's, there's a really cool set of overlap between the COVID researchers, long COVID researchers and the chronic pain people. 'cause there is Yes. This new science of pain that's yes. Our group, PPA put out like a really robust kind of training, um, for clinicians and researchers and even patients to get more educated. Joe Moore: And we're, we're getting, um, kind of boostered by cluster busters and we're kind of leveraging a lot of what they've done. Mary Carreon: Wait, what is a cluster buster? Joe Moore: Oh gosh. Um, so they're a 5 0 1 C3. Okay. Started with Bob Wald. Okay. Bob Wald is a cluster headache survivor. Oh, oh, oh, Mary Carreon: okay. Got it. Got it. Yes. So they're Joe Moore: the charity that, um, has been really championing, um, cluster headache research because they found a protocol [00:28:00] with mushrooms. Joe Moore: Yes, yes, yes. To eliminate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this really great, I Mary Carreon: love that. Joe Moore: This really great book was written by a Rutgers, um, I think medical sociologist or anthropologist psychedelic. Love laughs: that. Joe Moore: Joanna Kempner. Cool. Um, and it kind of talks about the whole, um, cluster busters saga, and it was, it was pretty cool. Joe Moore: Nice. So they've been at it for about as long as maps. Um, oh wow. Maybe a little earlier. Maybe a little later. Mary Carreon: I love that. Cool. I mean, yeah, that's really great. That's really great. Joe Moore: So we're copying their playbook in a lot of ways and Cool. We about to be our own 5 0 1 C3 and, um, nice. And that should be really fun. Joe Moore: And, uh, the next conference is coming up at the end of next month if people wanna check that out. Psychedelic. Nice. Mary Carreon: Nice, nice, nice. Cool. Joe Moore: Yeah, so that, like, how I leaned into that was not only did I get a lot of help from chronic pain with psychedelics and going to Phish shows and whatever, um, you know, I, and overuse for sure helped me somehow. Joe Moore: [00:29:00] Um, God bless. Yeah. But I, I like it because it breaks us out of the psychiatry only frame for psychedelics. Mm. And starts to make space for other categories. Mm-hmm. Is one of the bigger reasons I like it. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Which, like, we need to be, we need to, we, no one else is gonna do it for us. We like the people in the space who are finding new uses for these substances need to be creating those, those pathways and those new niches for people to then begin studying, et cetera, and exploring and yeah. Mary Carreon: Making, making a proper avenue for, Joe Moore: right, right. And, you know, um, I don't know that this is a Maha thing, so No, I'm going there, I guess, but like, how do we kind of face squarely America and the world's drinking problems? Not [00:30:00] knowing what we know now about alcohol, you know what I mean? And then like, what are the alternatives? Joe Moore: You know, some, some writers out there on substack are very firm that everybody needs to not do any substance. And like all psychedelics are super bad and drugs are evil, you know, famous sub stackers that I won't name. But you know, like what is the alternative? Like, I, like we have to have something beyond alcohol. Joe Moore: And I think you've found some cannabis helpful for that. Mary Carreon: Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's, there are, there's definitely an argument to be made for the power of these substances in helping, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say curb, but definitely reduce the symptoms of, uh, wanting to use or to drink or to consume a specific substance. Mary Carreon: There's obviously there is an argument to be made. There are, there is ano another camp of people who are kind [00:31:00] of in the, in the, in the, in the realm of using a drug to get off of a drug isn't how you do it. However, and, and I do, it depends on the individual. It depends on the individual and the, and how that person is engaging with their own addiction. Mary Carreon: I think for whether or not the substances work, like whether psychedelics work to help somebody kind of get off of alcohol or get off of cocaine or stop using opioids or, you know, et cetera. Mm-hmm. However, I think like, when the situation is so dire, we need to be trying everything. And if that means, like, if, like, you know, if you look at the studies for like smoking cessation or alcohol use, mushrooms do help, psilocybin does help with that. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that also need to happen. There's a lot of things that also need to happen in order for those, uh, that relief to maintain and to stick and to, uh, really guide [00:32:00] somebody off of those substances. Mm-hmm. It's not just the substance itself. Joe Moore: Right. So I'm, I'm explicitly talking like recreational alternatives, right. Like how do I Yeah. On per minute, like, am Anitas becoming helpful? Yeah, yeah. Are helpful and Yeah. Yeah. I think like even, um, normal. What we might call like normal American alcohol use. Like Yeah. That's still like, quite carcinogenic and like, um, absolutely. Joe Moore: We're kind of trying to spend less as a country on cancer treatments, which I hope is true. Then how do we, how do we develop things that are, you know, not just abstinence only programs, which we know for sure aren't great. Mary Carreon: Yeah. They don't work. Yeah. I don't, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. It's difficult to say. Mary Carreon: I mean mm-hmm. I don't know. Obviously I, I, well, maybe it's not obvious at all for people who don't know me, but, you know, I exist in a, I exist in, in a world where recreational use is like, it's like hard to define what recreational use is because if we are using this, if we are using mushrooms or LSD even, or MDMA, [00:33:00] you know, there are so many, there's a lot of the therapy that can happen through the use of these substances, even if we're not doing it, you know, with a blindfold on or whatever and yeah, I think like. Mary Carreon: There is a decent swap that can happen if you, if you are somebody who doesn't wanna be, you know, having like three beers a night, or if you are somebody who's like, you know, maybe not trying to have like a bottle of wine at a night or something like that, you know, because like Americans drink a lot and a lot of the way that we drink is, um, you know, like we don't see it as alcoholism. Mary Carreon: Even though it could be, it could be that's like a difficult Joe Moore: potentially subclinical, but right there. Mary Carreon: Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, um, we don't see it as that because everybody, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people drink like that, if that makes sense. If you know mm-hmm. If you, if you get what I'm, if you get what I'm saying. Mary Carreon: So, you know, I do think that there's a lot of benefit that, I don't [00:34:00] know, having, like a, having a mushroom, having a mushroom experience can really help. Or sometimes even like low dose, low doses of mushrooms can also really help with, like, with the. Desire to reach for a drink. Yeah, totally. And, and AMS as well. Mary Carreon: I know that that's also helping people a lot too. And again, outside of the clinical framework. Joe Moore: Yeah. I'm, a lot of people project on me that I'm just like constantly doing everything all the time and I'm, I'm the most sober I've been since high school. You know, like it's bonkers that like Yeah. Um, and you know, probably the healthiest event since high school too. Joe Moore: Yeah. But it's fa it's fascinating that like, you know, psychedelics kind of helped get here and even if it was like For sure something that didn't look like therapy. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think, I think most of us here in this space are getting projected on as to like, you know, being like what Normies would consider druggies or something, or that we are just like, you know, high all the time. Mary Carreon: Um, [00:35:00] I know that that is definitely something that I face regularly, like out in the world. Um, but, you know, I would also, I would also argue that. Uh, like mushrooms have completely altered my approach to health, my approach to mental health, and not even having to consume that, you know, that substance in order or that, you know, that fun fungi, in order for me to like tap into taking care of my mental health or approaching better, uh, food options, et cetera. Mary Carreon: It's kind of like what these, it's like how the mushrooms continue to help you even after you have taken them. Like the messages still keep coming through if you work with them in that capacity. Right. And yeah, and also same with, same with LSD too. LSD has also kind my experiences with that have also guided me towards a healthier path as well. Mary Carreon: I, I understand that maybe for some people it's not that way, but, um, for me that substance is a medicine as well, [00:36:00] or it can be. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so. What are, what are some things popping up these days about like US drug policy that's like getting exciting for you? Like, are you feeling feeling like a looming optimism about a, a major shift? Joe Moore: Are you kind of like cautiously optimistic with some of the weird kind of mandatory minimum stuff that's coming up or? Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that there was a huge, a, a pretty huge shift over at the DEA and I wish I remembered, I wish I remembered his name. The new guy who's now, I believe the head of the DEA, I don't know enough information about it to really feel a way. Mary Carreon: However, I don't think that he's necessarily going to be serving us as a community here, uh, in the psychedelic space. I, you know, I just don't think that that's something that we can ever depend on with the DEA. Uh, I also don't think that [00:37:00] the DEA is necessarily going to be. All that helpful to cannabis, like the cannabis space either. Mary Carreon: Um, I know that, that Trump keeps kind of discussing or, or dangling a carrot around the rescheduling of cannabis. Um, for, he's been, he's been, but he's doing it a lot more now. He's been talking about it more recently. Uh, he says like, in the next like couple weeks that he's going to have some kind of decision around that, allegedly. Mary Carreon: But we will see also, I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily help anybody if we reschedule two. Uh, what from schedule one to schedule th two, three, schedule three. Joe Moore: Either way it's like not that useful. Right. Exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, um, just going to probably cause a lot more red tape and a lot of confusion for the state rec markets. Mary Carreon: So it's like something that we, it's like only ridden with unintentional, unintentional consequences. Unintended consequences. Mm-hmm. Because no one knows how it's really going to [00:38:00] impact anything, um, if, if at all. But I don't know. It's hard, it's hard to imagine that there won't be any, uh, like more complex regulatory issues for business owners and also probably consumers as well. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. This guy's name's Terry Cole. Mary Carreon: Oh, the new DEA guy. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I don't know much about him. Terry. Yeah. Terry, I would love to chat. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Terry, let's talk. I'm sure your people Joe Moore: are watching. Yeah. So like, just let him know. We wanna chat. Yeah. We'll come to DC and chat it out. Um, yeah. It's, um, but yeah, I, Carl Hart's solution to me makes like almost most of the sense in the world to just end the scheduling system Absolutely. Joe Moore: And start building some sort of infrastructure to keep people safe. That's clearly not what we have today. Mary Carreon: No. But building an infrastructure around the health and wellness and uh, safety of [00:39:00] people is the exact opposite system that we have currently right now. Because also the scheduling system has a lot to do with the incarceration in the United States and the criminal just, or the criminal system. Mary Carreon: So, so yeah, like we can't disentangle the two really. Joe Moore: It just started, um, I feel negligent on this. Uh, synergetic press put out a book like a year or two ago called Body Autonomy. Mm-hmm. Um, did that one come across your desk at all? Mm-hmm. No. I wish basically contributed. Oh, nice. A number of people. So it's both like, um. Joe Moore: Drug policy commentary and then like sex work commentary. Oh, nice. And it was like high level, like love that really, really incredible love that detailed science based conversations, which is not what we have around this. Like, that doesn't make me feel good. So you should go to jail kind of stuff. Or like, I'm gonna humiliate you for real though. Joe Moore: Ticket. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. Uh, when you think about it like that, it just really also shows [00:40:00] just the uh, um, the level at which religion has also kind of fundamentally infused itself into the scheduling system, but also our laws, you know, like what you just said, this like, shame-based, I'm going to embarrass you and make you into a criminal when you know actually you are a law for the most part, a law abiding citizen, with the exception of this one thing that you're doing for. Mary Carreon: A, your survival and or your, like, your feeling good, wanting to feel good addressing pain. Um, there's a large, uh, like noise coming out of the front yard of my house right now. Hold on. Just a, it doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't sound too bad. Okay. Okay, good. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Yeah, I had Joe Moore: people working on my roof all day and somehow it worked out. Joe Moore: Oh, good. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating and I, I've been coming around like, I, I identify as politically confused, [00:41:00] um, and I feel like it's the most honest way I can be. Um, Mary Carreon: I am also politically confused these days, impossible to align with any, uh, party or group currently in existence at this exact juncture in American history. Joe Moore: I can't find any that I want to throw my dice in with. Nah. This idea of like fucking way being. Like what is the most humane way to do government as a way it's been put to me recently. And that's interesting. So it comes down to like coercion, are we caring for people, things like that. And um, I don't think we're doing it in a super humane way right now. Mary Carreon: Um, we, yeah, I am pretty sure that even if there was, I mean, I think that even if we looked at the data, the data would support that we are not doing it in a humane way. Joe Moore: So Mary Carreon: unfortunately, and Joe Moore: you know, this whole tech thing, like the tech oligarch thing, you kind of dropped at the beginning and I think it's worth bringing that back because we're, we're on all [00:42:00] these tech platforms. Joe Moore: Like that's kind of like how we're transmitting it to people who are participating in these other platforms and like, you know, it's not all meta. I did turn on my personal Facebook, so everybody's watching it there. I hope. Um, see if that count gets, Mary Carreon: um, Joe Moore: but you know, this idea that a certain number of private corporations kind of control. Joe Moore: A huge portion of rhetoric. Um, and you know, I think we probably got Whiffs of this when Bezos bought Washington Post and then Yes. You know, Musk with X and like yes. You know, is this kind of a bunch of people who don't necessarily care about this topic and the way we do, and they're like in larger topics too about humane government and like, you know, moving things in good directions. Joe Moore: Um, I don't know, thoughts on that rift there as it relates to anything you, wherever you wanna go. Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that they are looking at, I don't think that they are looking [00:43:00] at it the way that we are. I don't think that they can see it from their vantage point. Um, I think that like, in the, in a similar way that so many CEOs who run businesses have no fucking clue about what's actually happening in their businesses and the actual workers and, and employees of their businesses can tell them in more detail. Mary Carreon: Far more detail about what's actually happening on the, on the floor of their own business. Uh, I think that it is something like that. However, that's not to say that, you know, these, these CEOs who employ people who build the A algorithm are obviously guided to create the limitations on us as people who speak about drugs, et cetera, and are creating a algorithm that ultimately is looking at things in a very blanket way in terms of, uh, like we're probably seen on the same level as like drug dealers, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: Which is obviously a much, you know, there's, [00:44:00] it's a very different thing. Um, so, you know, there's like these CEOs are giving directions to their employees to ultimately create systems that harm. Information flow and inform and, and like the information health of, of platforms and of just people in general. Mary Carreon: So it's hard to say because there's nuance there, obviously, but I would bet you that someone like Elon Musk doesn't really have a full grasp as to the, the nuances and details of what's even happening within, on the ground floor of his businesses. Because that's like, not how CEOs in America run, run, and operate. Mary Carreon: They're stupid companies. So, so yeah. And I feel like that, like, that's across the board, like that's across the board. That's how I, that's probably how Zuck is operating with Meta and Facebook, et cetera. And yeah, just likewise and across, across the whole, [00:45:00] across the whole spectrum. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, a thing. Joe Moore: Then as the people like, we need to keep looking at how can we keep each other informed. And that's kind of circling back to drug journalism like we do and like, um, other, other sorts of journalism that doesn't really get the press it deserves. Right. And I've been getting far more content that I find more valuable off of tragically back on Zucks platform like IG is getting me so much interesting content from around the world that no major outlet's covering. Mary Carreon: That's so interesting. Like what? Like what would you say? Joe Moore: Oh, um, uh, certain, um, violent situations overseas. Oh, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, that America's paying for, so like, you know, I just don't love that I don't have a good, you know, journalistic source I can [00:46:00] point to, to say, hey, like right. Joe Moore: These writers with names, with addresses, like, and offices here. Yes. You know, they did the work and they're held, you know, they're ethical journalists, so yes. You can trust them. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, Mary Carreon: yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all of this makes everything so much harder for determining, like, the censorship specifically makes it so much harder for the people to determine like, what's real, what's not. Mary Carreon: Because, because of exactly what you just said. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we are, we are basically what that means, like what is required of the people and people who are consuming information is becoming a smart consumer and being able to determine what's real, what's not. How can we trust this individual? Mary Carreon: How can we not, which isn't analysis process that all of us need to be sharpening every single day, especially with the advent of AI and, uh, how quickly this, this type of content is coming at all of us. Like, especially if you're on TikTok, which many of us are, you know, like information comes flying at you 3000 miles an hour, and it's sometimes [00:47:00] really difficult to determine what's real, what's not, because AI is. Mary Carreon: AI is not where it's going to be, and it still is in its nascent phase. However, it's still pretty fucking good and it's still very confusing on there. So, so again, like the media literacy of the people needs to be sharpened every single day. We cannot be on there, we cannot be on the internet existing. Mary Carreon: That everything that we are seeing is real. Whether that's about, you know, these, um, the violence overseas, uh, happening at the hands of the United States, whether that is, uh, even drug information like, you know, et cetera, all of all of it. Or just like news about something happening at Yellowstone National Park or something that is happening in the, uh, at like. Mary Carreon: Um, like potential riots also happening at protests in downtown la, et cetera. Like all, all of it, we need to be so careful. And I think what that also, like, one way that [00:48:00] we can adjust and begin to develop our media literacy skills is talking to people maybe who are there, reaching out to people who are saying that they were there and asking them questions, and also sussing that out. Mary Carreon: You know, obviously we can't do that for all situations, but definitely some of them. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Like, Joe Moore: um, a quick pivot. Mm-hmm. Were you at PS 25? Mary Carreon: Yes, I was. What did I think? Uh, you know, I, I was running around like crazy at this one. I felt like I didn't even have a second to breathe and I feel like I didn't even have a second to really see anybody. I was like, worry. I was jumping from one stage to the next. Mary Carreon: However, I would say, uh, one of, one of the things that I have said and how I felt about it was that I felt that this, this event was smaller than it was two years ago. And I preferred that I preferred the reduction in size just because it was, uh, less over, less overwhelming [00:49:00] in an, in an already very overwhelming event. Mary Carreon: Um, but I thought that from the panels that I did see that everyone did a really great job. I thought that maps, you know, it's impressive that maps can put on an event like that. Um, I also was very cognizant that the suits were there in full effect and, uh, you know, but that's not unusual. That's how it was last time as well. Mary Carreon: And, um, I felt that there was Mary Carreon: a, uh, like the, the, the level of excitement and the level of like opportunity and pro, like the prosperous. The like, prospect of prosperity coming down the pipeline like tomorrow, you know, kind of vibe was different than last time. Mm-hmm. Which that was very present at the one, two years ago, uh, which was the last PS psychedelic science. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Um, anyways. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was really nice to see everybody. [00:50:00] I feel like in-person events is a great way for everybody in the psychedelic space to be interacting with each other instead of like keyboard warrioring against each other, you know, uh, over the computer and over the internet. Mary Carreon: I think that, um, yeah, uh, being in person is better than being fighting each other over the internet, so, yeah. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. People seem to be a little bit more civil in person. Mary Carreon: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that we all need to be considering more often, and also inviting people from across the aisle to your events and creating peace, because in person it's a little different than it is. Mary Carreon: When you have the opportunity to, uh, yeah, like keyboard attack someone over the internet, it's like, yeah. It's just so silly. So silly. We look like fools. Like we look like absolute idiots doing that. And you know what? I cannot sit here and say that I haven't looked like an idiot. So, you know, it's like I'm not, I'm not talking from like a high horse over here, but, but you know, it's like, it's [00:51:00] better when it's in person. Mary Carreon: I feel like there's like more civil engagements that we can all have. Joe Moore: It's practice, you know? Yeah. We're learning. Yeah. We are. We should be learning, including us, and yes, of course. Um, I, I play a subtler game these days and, uh, you know, I, I, I, it's better when we all look a lot better in my opinion, because yes, we can inform policy decisions, we can be the ones helping inform really important things about how these things should get implemented and absolutely right. Joe Moore: Like, Mary Carreon: absolutely. Yeah, it does. It does. Nobody, any service, especially these medicines, especially these sacraments, especially these plants, these molecules, et cetera, if we are all sitting here fighting each other and like calling each other names and trying to dunk on one another, when like in reality, we are also all kind of pushing for the same thing more or less. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So a thing that [00:52:00] I, it's a, it's kind of a, I, I had a great time at PS 25. I have no, no real complaints. I just wish I had more time. Yeah, same. Um, same. Yeah. Our booth was so busy. It was so fun. Just good. And it was like, good. I, I know. It was really good. I'm trying to say it out loud. I get to talk at the conference before Rick did. laughs: Oh, oh, Joe Moore: the morning show they put us on at like seven 30 in the morning or something crazy. Oh my god. It was early. I dunno if it was seven 30. Mary Carreon: That's so early. That's so early. Joe Moore: Yeah, right. Like that's crazy. I got zero nightlife in That's okay. Um, I was not, I was there for work. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I was Joe Moore: jealous. I didn't party, but you know, whatever. Joe Moore: Yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: I did not party this time really in the same way that I did at PS 20. Was it 2023? Joe Moore: 23, yeah. 23. I only stay up till 11 one night in 23. Nice. Mary Carreon: Okay. Um, okay. Joe Moore: So I behaved, I have a pattern of behaving. 'cause I like That's good. I'm so bent outta shape inside going into these things. I'm like, I know, I know. Joe Moore: And, and I'm like, oh, all [00:53:00] my friends are gonna be there. It's gonna be great. And then it's like, yeah. It's mostly friends and only a little bit of stress. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I had a, I had a great time. It was really good seeing everybody again. Like you, I wish that I had more time with people. Like there are people that I like didn't even see who are my friends, Joe Moore: so, which Yeah. Joe Moore: Which is sad. That's like a subtext in, in like the notes coming away from 25. Is that the, um, American Right, if we wanna call it that, is very interested in this stuff. Oh yeah. Like the Texas establishment. Oh yeah. Um, the Texas contingent, right? They're deep. They're real deep. Mm-hmm. I have, um, Mary Carreon: let's talk about that more. Mary Carreon: Yeah. So Joe Moore: it's optimistic in, in some sense that psychedelic science is getting funded more. By states. 'cause the feds aren't stepping up. Right. I love that. Right. Yeah. Like, Hey feds, look what we can do. And you can't somehow, and [00:54:00] then, um, we'll see if state rights stays around for a while longer, maybe, maybe not. Joe Moore: And then the other part is like, is there a slippery slope given the rhetoric around addiction and the rise in interest in iboga for compulsory addiction treatment with psychedelics or, or compulsory mental health treatments with psychedelics because of the recent, it's illegal to be a person without housing. Joe Moore: Um, and you're gonna get put in treatment. Mm. Like, that's now a thing. So like, I don't know, I don't think forced treatment's good at all. I, and I don't think like, um, like the data is something like 15% effective, maybe less. Right. Right. It's not a good use of money. I don't know. We're, let's, I. You can go there if you want, and riff on that, or if you wanna talk about like, Texas, um, Arizona more generally. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I will just say this, I also don't really believe that forced treatment is like good, you [00:55:00] know, data Joe Moore: says it's bad. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I also, yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that's, it's complex. It's a complex issue. I also don't think it's good, but I also do think that we need a much better framework and foundation for like, if people do want the help, helping them get it. Mary Carreon: Much more easily and in a way that's going to be beneficial for them. Um, and I don't think that that system or that pathway currently exists as we saw in, uh, with, with, um, measure 1 0 9 and the failure of measure 1 0 9 or, or was it Measure 1 0 10, 1 10, measure one 10 in Oregon. Joe Moore: But did you see the response yesterday or two days ago? Joe Moore: No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I'll I'll send it to you later. Okay. So the university did the research, um, Portland State University did the research Yes. And said, Hey, look, there was actually 20 other things that were higher priority. Like that actually influenced this increase in overdoses, not our law. Mary Carreon: Right. Mary Carreon: Yes. It was really COVID for Okay. [00:56:00] Like for, yeah. Right. Absolutely. Also, there was not a. Like there was not a framework in place that allowed people to get off the street should they want to, or you know, like, like you just can't really have a, all drugs are legal, or small amounts of drugs are legal without also offering or creating a structure for people to get help. Mary Carreon: That, that's, you can't do one without the other. Unfortunately. That's just like a, that's faulty from the start. So that's all I'll really say about that. And I don't think that that had fully been implemented yet, even though it was something that wasn't ideal for the, um, for the, for the measure. And I believe it was measure one 10, not measure 1 0 9, to be clear. Mary Carreon: Measure one 10. Um, yes, but confirmed one 10 confirmed one 10, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I'll say. That's what I'll, that's where I'll leave that portion. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, but yeah, forced treatment. I don't know. [00:57:00] We can't be forcing, forcing people to do stuff like that. Mary Carreon: I don't know. It's not gonna, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem Joe Moore: very humane. Mary Carreon: Yeah. No. And it also probably isn't gonna work, so, Joe Moore: right. Like, if we're being conservative with money, like, I like tote, like to put on Republican boots once in a while and say like, what does this feel like? And then say like, okay, if we're trying to spend money smartly, like where do we actually get where we want to be? Joe Moore: And then sometimes I put on my cross and I'm like, okay, if I'm trying to be Christian, like where is the most, like, what is the most Christian behavior here in terms of like, what would the, you know, buddy Jesus want to do? And I'm just like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't seem right. Like those things don't seem to align. Joe Moore: And when we can find like compassionate and efficient things, like isn't that the path? Um, Mary Carreon: compassionate and t. Yeah, even, I don't know, I don't know if it looks lefty these days, but Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Um, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated, you know, but going back, kind of, kind of pivoting and going back to what you were talking about in regards to the subtext, some of the subtext of like, you know, where psychedelic medicine is currently getting its most funding. Mary Carreon: You know, I do believe that that was an undercurrent at psychedelic science. It was the, the iboga conversation. And there's, there's a lot, there's a lot happening with the Iboga conversation and the Iboga conversation and, um, I am really trying to be open to listening to everyone's messages that are currently involved in. Mary Carreon: That rise of that medicine right now? Um, obviously, yeah, we will see, we'll see how it goes. There's obviously a lot of people who believe that this is not the right move, uh, just because there's been no discussions with, uh, the Wii people of West Africa and, you know, because of [00:59:00] that, like we are not talking to the indigenous people about how we are using their medicine, um, or medicine that does like that comes from, that comes from Africa. Mary Carreon: Um, also with that, I know that there is a massive just devastating opioid crisis here that we need to do something about and drug crisis that we need to be helping with. And this medicine is something that can really, really, really help. Um, I find it absolutely fascinating that the right is the most interested party in moving all of this forward, like psychedelic medicine forward. Mary Carreon: And I, I currently have my popcorn and I am watching and I am eating it, and I am going to witness whatever goes down. Um, but I'm, I, I hope that, uh, things are moving in a way that is going to be beneficial for the people and also not completely leave behind the indigenous communities where this medicine comes from. Joe Moore: [01:00:00] Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: We'll see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It Joe Moore: would be lovely if we can figure it out. Um, I know, and I think, uh, Lucy Walker has a film coming out on Iboga. Mm. I got to see it at Aspen, um, symposium last summer, and it was really good. Mm. So I'm sure it'll be cut different, but it's so good and it tells that story. Joe Moore: Okay. Um, in a helpful way. I'm gonna, I, yeah. I always say I'm gonna do this. I'm like, if I have space, maybe I'll be able to email her and see if we can screen it in Colorado. But it's like a brilliant film. Yeah. Cool. This whole reciprocity conversation is interesting and challenging. And so challenging being one of the few countries that did not sign onto the Nagoya protocol. Joe Moore: Absolutely. We're not legally bound, you know, some countries are Mary Carreon: I know. Yes, yes, yes. So Joe Moore: we're, you know, how do we do that? How do we do that skillfully? We still haven't done it with, um, first Nations folks around their [01:01:00] substances. Um, I think mushrooms are a little flexible and account of them being global, um, from Africa to Ireland and beyond. Joe Moore: And, but you know, that's, we still want to give a nod to the people in Mexico for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, I had some fun commentary there that I would love to flesh out someday. Uh, but yeah, it's not for today. Mary Carreon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's, yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously a lot with the conversation of reciprocity here and, um, I know, I, I don't know. Mary Carreon: I, I, what I do know is that we need to be listening to the indigenous people, not just listening to them second, like secondhand or listening to them, uh, once we have moved something forward, like actually consulting with them as the process goes. And that, you know, the way that both parties move, indigenous folks and, uh, western folks move, uh, are at inherently different paces. Mary Carreon: And, [01:02:00] um, I just hope, and I wish, and I, I hope, I just hope that, uh, Western what, like the Western party, the western folks who are diving into these medicines. Slow the fuck down and listen and just are able to at least make one right move. Just one, just like you. Like it's, doesn't have to be this, it doesn't have to be that hard. Mary Carreon: Although the pace of capitalism usually propels, uh, the western folks at, at a much quicker rate than, u

Dentistry isn't always the front of the pack when it comes to innovation, but Tiff and Kristy tackle the topic with digestible takeaways from a marketing point of view. In this episode, they touch on easy questions to identify your practice's brand, why that patient avatar is so critical, and how to ensure your brand spreads through your office, down to the check-in staff member. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back here with you today. This is Tiffanie, because I forget to announce myself, and Miss Kristy. I have Kristy for the long haul today. She's doing a couple of different recordings with me. And I can't wait for them to come out. Actually, Kristy, I have had so much fun. I think this one, I don't know what order they go out in. So whatever. If you guys have listened to the leadership ones we just did or have not, they're coming.   You're going to love them. So Kristy, thank you for taking this ride with me today and just busting out a ton ⁓ with me on this beautiful, it's a Thursday morning right now. How are you doing? You holding up over there? You got your water? Awesome.   DAT Kristy (00:40) Absolutely. It's always the   day goes by fast when we're doing this. love it.   The Dental A Team (00:45) Yeah, me too. I really do. I do love it. And I ⁓ love when we hear from listeners. I love when we get, you know, we get to go through the reviews below and see what people loved or I know a lot of people will leave like info of their own that there is suggestions I should say. And it's just a lot of fun. Always hearing from it. And I love hearing from my clients when they've listened to one. So I agree the podcast is fun and it's like a collaboration time for us.   I enjoy it. this podcast topic, the subject, is something I really, really love. ⁓ I was talking actually, it's on marketing guys. So don't fret. I think you already saw the title, but it's on marketing. ⁓ I joined a marketing call yesterday with a client and it was a marketer I've not worked with before and she was fantastic and she was very collaborative. It was great, but she...   She was like, is this something you guys do? You guys work, like you do marketing for them? And I was like, no, no, no, let's not get wild here. Like I don't do marketing, but I love it. And I know my consultant team loves marketing and internal is our jam. And we are really, really solid at that, but really finding different ways that we can leverage our skills to show patients and potential patients that this is the right place for them.   I think is something that consultants on our team are really fantastic at. And I wanted to dive into some of that with you today, Kristy, is really just like how to just innovate a brand. And the most fun part about this for me in today's market is that I don't think that dentistry has always been in a space of total innovation.   I think dentistry has always kind of innovated, like, my gosh, can we just talk about how long we've been using the same stuff for like root canals, right? Or whatever, like, come on, right? But there is a lot of innovation in like filling materials and scans and x-rays, the, know, CBCT scans, all of these different modalities, in-house crowns, like Botox, lip fillers, but I've got...   Practices that are doing facial aesthetics, know having estheticians in the office We do have a lot of innovation when it comes to that space but something I think is truly innovating within the last few years is the understanding of a Dental practice and a dentist needing to have a brand. I don't think marketing Has been easy in the dental world. I don't think it's been understood and I don't think it's been super effective if I'm honest and the   Idea of innovating is really cool to me. I love innovation. That's one of our, I don't think it's innovate, it used to be innovate or die, a core value of ours. I hated that. But innovate is just something that we live by at the Dental A Team. We're constantly looking for, okay, well that didn't get us the result we wanted. Let's do something different. Let's try this. And changing things and marketing allows for that in so many really cool ways. But really looking at it and saying, what's my brand?   Who am I? Like how is my practice showing up in our community is something that I don't think that, Kristy, we've really ever spent a lot of time diving into within the dental world. And I think it's starting to come up. But what are you seeing, Kristy, even with the practices you're working with today, do you see a lot of practices really thinking, what's my brand?   DAT Kristy (04:25) Yeah, no, I think we are still behind the time in that regard for most other industries. They've kind of dialed this in. ⁓ It's definitely an area I believe that we can do better. mean, obviously, I just moved from Idaho and there's like, I don't know, three or five dentists on every corner almost. Do you think I'm exaggerating? finding out and   The Dental A Team (04:49) Literally.   DAT Kristy (04:54) And brand again can be such a broad word, but to simplify it, I just ask doctors, what's your purpose? What's your niche? What do you wanna be known for? Start asking yourself some of those questions to identify and set yourself apart. Here's the thing, dentistry, it goes back to what you said, Tiff, we only offer so many things.   And so how do we put ourselves apart? Like why do they want a filling from you versus your three neighbors next door? So yeah, again, one of those words brand, it's like, it's so broad. So narrow it down. What do you want to be known for? What's your purpose and what's your niche? And if you've been in dentistry for a while and you still haven't done this, go look at your reviews right now.   The Dental A Team (05:28) Yep, I totally agree.   DAT Kristy (05:48) and start highlighting some common words. If they're saying friendly or, I don't know, nice, kind, whatever it is, start highlighting them and see, does that fit you? Right?   The Dental A Team (06:00) Yeah, yeah, I   mean you could throw that into chat GPT. You could say chat GPT, go look at my reviews and find commonalities. Innovation guys, innovation. 2025 chat GPT, that's our best friend. No, I totally agree with you and ⁓ you said a few things there that I just totally resonate with and it made me think of a client, ⁓ actually a conversation I had with my financial advisor boyfriend who is just like,   DAT Kristy (06:07) There you go.   The Dental A Team (06:28) He works with a few dentists here locally in Arizona and Phoenix and he asks me a lot of questions and he's like, how is this possible? And I'm like, you know, he sees the profit and he sees the things that dentists are able to achieve and what they're able to achieve for their team members and being able to see like how, they're the 401ks and there's the different things that they're able to do and there he's not seen that in another industry.   right, through the work that he's done at least. And the conversation we had was, we were talking about a cosmetic practice and he, I think I upset him if I'm honest with you, we just at the gym, right? And he was just like, I just don't understand how it's possible that one, because I said, don't know, it could be, you know, for this specific cosmetic dentist, it's probably $2,500 of an year, okay?   DAT Kristy (07:11) ⁓   The Dental A Team (07:25) pretty average honestly for a cosmetic dentist like 2500 a veneer and his mind was blown right because he's looking at like cosmetic procedures um at a plastic surgeon right like you can get minor cosmetic procedures for similar amounts of money on your physical body right and not just one single tooth and i said well you know while i understand where you're coming from like let me tell you the hours it takes   to do a cause, like what it actually takes and what a lab cost of one of those crowns could be, et cetera, et cetera. But long story short, he just was mind blown and was just like, that is wild. And I thought to myself, this is it. Like this is the marketing and the branding because you do have to set yourself apart and you have to reach the people that want to be reached by you, right? My boyfriend, I love him to death. He is not.   DAT Kristy (08:14) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (08:18) this he's not a cosmetic dentist avatar, it's not their dream, right? Because you're going to be convincing him. Like nobody wants that. if you want to you want that number nine implant crown replaced by a dentist who's going to make it look 100,000 times better than it does right now, honey. It's you're going to pay money for that, right? But if you're not concerned about it, then you're not going to care, right? Who you go to. So   My conversation with him yesterday made me really really think how important it is for practices to understand their brand and their avatar patient. So what is it that you want to do and within the capabilities of your surroundings I think is a good statement. I have practices that are like I want to do cosmetic dentistry and I'm like well you're in a like this you've got   20 miles around you of Medicaid. People aren't coming here for that, so we've gotta move your practice or change your avatar, right? So within the confinements of where you're at, of course, but what is it that you want to provide and then who are you providing it to? And Kristy, I think one piece that's missed in the branding conversation, one, we all wanna be like, I wanna do this, right? But it's like, okay, is that avatar here? So then looking at what your patient avatar   Who is your patient avatar? Who is the person you're speaking to? And then what do they need, right? In our company, Kiera and I love nothing more than to brainstorm and innovate. Like we want to innovate. We want to change the world, right? And we get on these tangents and then thank goodness we have like Britt and Shelbi on these calls with us because they're like, okay, cool guys, this sounds like an awesome product. It sounds like something that is gonna be really cool and that you will love doing.   Does it speak to our client's needs? And we're like, ⁓ yeah, that's right. We can innovate and we can do all of these cool things, but are we meeting a need of the people who need us, right? Of our client avatar. We know who we wanna work with. Are we just creating to create? Or are we creating something that meets a need of that avatar, of the person that we want to work with? And if it does, then fantastic, then let's move forward.   DAT Kristy (10:14) You   The Dental A Team (10:37) And so I think with the branding conversation, we're speaking to those needs. So who are we looking to work with? ⁓ Who do we want to inspire to have better dental health? And then what are their needs? And how can we show up and speak to that? Where our brand, Kristy, tell me if I'm totally off here, but we'll add to it as well. I think our brand...   really is how we're showing up to speak to those needs, right? And how we're showing up in a way that those people who need those things find us, right?   DAT Kristy (11:14) Yeah, I agree with you 100%. And to your point, I know people almost have a adverse reaction when we say buying dentistry or selling dentistry, but in the big scheme of things, guys, we are selling dentistry. what are they looking to buy? And it's usually they're not coming in saying, I want to buy a root canal, right? They're buying health or they're buying   The Dental A Team (11:39) Yeah. Yeah.   DAT Kristy (11:42) They're buying something it's going to give them. And so I think sometimes we miss the mark by speaking our language instead of the language they're looking for. Right.   The Dental A Team (11:54) Totally agree. I remember one of the first like all on four over dentures, whatever that we did in my practice. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I get it because the guy bought because he was like, I just want to eat a steak again. And I was like, that is brilliant. So that became our brand of our all on fours. Like eat a steak again because it fit our target audience, our avatar and our demographic. We knew.   DAT Kristy (12:10) Hmm?   The Dental A Team (12:23) the area that we were in had that need and those were the patients that we wanted. And so we took that as a brand of our practice and we were like, do you want to eat steak again? So it's like that, now we're speaking to their need instead of selling a denture, right? Like people might call the denture places, right? And I'm not talking about prosthodontists, I'm talking about these big   you guys have seen the commercials, they might, those are not your avatar. Those patients are not the patients that you want. You want the patients that are emotionally tied to being able to eat a steak again. I had a patient that had regular dentures. I will never forget this lady. She was so sweet and so sweet. She just had dentures and she would not go for.   the lower support adventure and we're like totally fine, totally fine. She came in like once a month for quote unquote adjustments because   She couldn't eat lettuce. And she brought in a piece of lettuce and she put it in between her teeth and then pull it out. Her need was that she wanted to eat a salad again. And I get that, I eat a lot of salads, I eat a lot of steak. So it became the brand of that specific procedure. And it became one of our brands. Lettuce gets you healthy in all the ways. ⁓   speaking to what you said, right? So I think something action-wise that I have a lot of practices do is, and we do this in multifaceted, ⁓ is building that avatar. We help clients build the avatar of their ideal patient, and then, side-step, I love avatars, building the avatar of your ideal team member. Because within the brand conversation,   If you, I like to think of companies who have a really, really easy brand, right? And kind of match up with, I think, what a lot of the dentists that we work with are kind of looking for, their style, right? Everybody says the Ritz-Carlton, but nobody knows what that means anymore, doctors. Please just know your team members don't know what the Ritz-Carlton is or how they show up, so it doesn't work. ⁓ But brands that do resonate with a lot of team members, and it's easy for a lot of doctors to understand the importance of hiring,   DAT Kristy (14:44) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (14:57) And emanating the brand that you want and I think Lululemon is a very easy one, right? Everyone knows there's not a soul who does not know what Lululemon is. They've done a phenomenal job. When you walk into a Lululemon, same, you could copy and paste that person. I've been to Lululemon's all over the country. Sadly, don't tell my boyfriend. I've been to Lululemon's all over the country and you can duplicate the way that they show up.   They are a brand, they are a piece of that company and they are showing up that way. Dental A Team, we run the same way. We are speaking the company culture constantly and we all show up the same. Chick-fil-A is another one. Yeah, great training, but also they're hiring the personalities that fit within their culture that they can train. Same with Starbucks.   All of these different brands who have and companies who have branded themselves really well are ensuring that that messaging and that branding is in all of those spaces. And something I see doctors do is really come to the space of like ready to elevate where they're at, but they're not fully ready to innovate in all the different ways. And narrowing those avatars down helps bring light.   to situations that maybe is kind of sitting in the shadows. And I've seen sometimes where it's like maybe our main check-in gal who's been there forever and she loves the patients that she loves and she's a great human and she doesn't need to go anywhere, but is she right person, right seat? Is she exuding your brand awareness of like, my gosh, we are so excited to see you today. Thank you so much for coming to our practice. We love new patients.   Or, right, is she like, I really love the patients that I know, thank you for being here, fantastic human, again, I'm not saying people need to be let go, I'm saying do you have them in the seat that's appropriate for them? Or is there maybe a seat that, like I walked into a practice yesterday, we were consulting, holy amazing find for their check-in girl. And I am telling you right now, I went through this avatar, ⁓   assignment, whatever you want to call it, with them, this exercise, literally within a week, this girl walked into their office randomly, walked in, said, I don't know if you guys are hiring or not, if you need it. Like I am not really looking, but like, are you looking for somebody? She is amazing. Dental experience, beautiful, beautiful girl, so happy, and just is like,   loving everyone and she just wants to help everyone to a T. I remember the office manager calling like in tears, Tiffanie, you'll never guess what just happened. And it was because they had it, in my opinion, so narrowed down that it walked right in front of their face. Had they not known exactly what their avatar was, they might've been like, that was really weird, right? Like, I'll take your resume, but like, you're cute and all, like, maybe I'll call you. But they were so dialed in on exactly who they wanted at that check-in desk.   DAT Kristy (17:57) Thank you.   The Dental A Team (18:13) She walked in and they were like, yep, she's the one. And that I think happens with our avatar for our patients too, for marketing. And I think that's our brand awareness. Like that's how we stay relevant is knowing how we wanna show up, who we wanna show up for, and how do we help their needs and speaking to that from our brand. Lululemon is not here to serve everyone. That's totally fine.   DAT Kristy (18:17) Pass it.   The Dental A Team (18:42) Talk to, I use Lululemon branding as an example in a lot of different ways with a lot of offices and I've had team members that are like, I'm not spending money on Lululemon. I'm like, you're not their avatar. That's totally fine too because you're someone else's avatar. You are a different brand's avatar and they need you. So what they've done is they've made it easy for people to say yes or no. And if you're a cosmetic dentist who is branding, right, you've got your brand so wide.   that you're getting calls for people who only want to do what your insurance is going to cover, that's not your avatar. That is someone else's let them have that patient. They are working their tail off for new patients too. Let them have that patient. That's not your avatar, right? And I think we try, Kristy, to bend to what is coming. And we're like, well, we can do that. And we don't hold our boundaries of what we actually want.   and what our practice needs and what fits us that we end up confused. And then we get the calls of the doctors that are like, I need systems because it's not working and not something doesn't work for everyone. Right, Kristy, do you see where I'm going with that?   DAT Kristy (19:54) Yeah,   I sure do. I love where you're identifying and it's not just the who, but it's the how behaviors too, like how will they show up, right? Identifying who is the first step for sure, but then take it one step further and identify the characteristics of how they behave as well because then you'll bring that in. Yeah, I love   I love everything you're saying there. think it's kind of bringing me back. I believe I had this conversation with Kiera the other day about... ⁓   a doctor wanting to elevate his practice and should I offer this service? And I'm like, well, have you ever considered taking a poll with your patients to see are they looking for this type of service? Yes, it's fine to, I mean, do what you love for sure, but before you get frustrated, go take CE for this course and learn how to, I don't know, do Botox and none of your patients are wanting it. And then you get frustrated and   fizzle out, you know what I mean? Find out first. And another cool area of that tip is, you know, have your admin team keep track of ⁓ how many patients are calling and asking for something that maybe you aren't offering and see if that's, you know, see if it's in your wheelhouse or is it matching your avatar?   The Dental A Team (21:05) Yeah.   That's a great idea. ⁓   Yeah, yeah, and I think to speak to that too, if they're calling asking for that and it's not something that fits your avatar or that you want to do, is your branding reflective of your avatar because somehow they found you and they called you. So what messaging is out there within your marketing that has attracted the wrong avatar? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.   DAT Kristy (21:48) Yeah, 100%. So it works both ways, right? Yeah.   The Dental A Team (21:54) Love marketing. just it and I don't know I just I don't I truly don't know why I love marketing so much but it just gets me excited and the idea of being able to change something and really target in and achieve the result is really cool to me and the idea of being able to attract someone to something that they need and want by   saying things right by presenting right. Like that just gets me so giddy. So thank you for doing this podcast with me today is my point.   DAT Kristy (22:27) Yeah.   I was going to say to your point, you said something very poignant there that you have to be tracking it. You have to be paying attention to it and you have to be willing to test, track and adjust if it's not getting the results you want. Too many people start and they throw it out and then they stop there because they get frustrated that it's not bringing it. And it goes back to your innovation. You've got to be able to ⁓   try something different and it could be something very minute. A word, right, could make a big difference.   The Dental A Team (23:01) Yeah,   yeah, totally agree. I totally agree. And I think that's the most exciting space is what you just said. Like even the word, the one word in this sentence on this marketing, whatever this ad that's on Google or postcard that somebody's getting one word can totally change the outcome. And I think that's what gets me excited is like, okay, how can I, how can I get the result that I want with the words that I'm using? I love that. And when we can,   hone in on that, I think massive changes. I think there's a ton of takeaways here. think biggest action item, you guys, is really, really figuring out your patient avatar and your team avatar, honestly, your team member avatar, because I think that points you in the direction of your culture, how you want to show up in the world, what your brand is, and then start realizing and understanding that your culture, your core values, that is your brand, that is your brand awareness. And when we live and breathe,   By those, think you guys can, anyone who's listening and has listened before, anyone who's following the Dental A Team on Instagram, Facebook, clients of ours, coming to our webinars, we do free CE webinars every month, you guys, anyone who has experienced Dental A Team in the slightest, I think can agree that we emanate the Dental A Team. Every team member we have, as far as our virtual assistant,   Joe Ash, who we love and adore all the way in the Philippines. He emanates the Dental A Team because we understand that those pieces of our company, the mission, the vision, the core values, brand awareness, all of that is who we are. And we live, breathe it, we show up, we believe in it, we stand behind it and we're consistent. So it makes everything else kind of fall into place really easily. So.   Go do that, you guys, narrow it in. Don't let it feel so big. Just do one chunk. What is your avatar? Who is your avatar? How do they show up in life? What do they look like? What do they love to do? Narrow in your avatar of your patient and of your team members. Make sure your mission, vision, core values are in alignment with what you actually want. And then take a step back and look at it from bird's eye view of how you need to innovate your brand.   and how you can do that. And like I said, I love this stuff. The consultants loves this stuff. Kristy is fantastic with her clients. She's done this so many times and all of them have Dana, gosh, Monica, Trish, everybody, every single one of them have done these types of exercises with their clients and they're really good at it you guys. So reach out. If you're a client and you need this, you're like, need to innovate, reach out to your consultant. If you're not yet a client,   you're soon to be or you're just like, I'm just a podcast listener right now, that's okay too. Reach out you guys, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We have the resources that you need, we're here to help you. Instagram, Facebook, wherever you can find us and then as always you guys leave us a five star review below. Let us know how helpful this was and if there's anything you've done to innovate your brand awareness that you think people could benefit from as well, people really do read those comments and it could be super beneficial. So, Kristy.   Thank you so much. I love taking the avatar roads with you, because I think you're just really good at it and you love people. So really keying in on parts that you love about people's personalities, I think opens you up. So thank you, Kristy, for being here today. Of course. All right, guys, go do the Things Five Star Review. Reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Follow us on social if you're not there yet, and we'll catch you next time. Bye-bye.   DAT Kristy (26:37) Thank you.

Can we resolve the crisis in cosmology? Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-host Matt Kirshen take on Hubble Tension, the difference between the estimated ages of the universe, and how to solve it with legendary astronomer Wendy Freedman.NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://startalkmedia.com/show/solving-the-crisis-in-cosmology-with-wendy-freedman/Thanks to our Patrons Smallevent, Ralph, Arun, Pandey, Nick Ohlheiser, Dantheman, Brian Campana, Mel, Micheal TRilling, Daniel Arvizu, James, Lily Morant, Jon Githrex, Daniel Frank, Gini Kramer, Opal Lehman, M M, pheobekate, Najwa DeForest, Kyle, Mama M, Jerome Cameron, Charles, David "Kiwi" Keller, Scott Chaddon, Erin T, Quin Shimamura, Wilma, Jerry the Epicurean, Matt Brady, loreen spchler, AlexK89, Eric Lee, Mantautas Jokubenas, Dustin, Regina Rhew Hoilman, Professional Dave, Nicholas Hayes, Joe White, Eddie Olsson, Amanda Granberry, Gloria Askin, Crimson Blaze, Steven Banker, Chris Washington, Ethan, oliver cooke, Terrence Sauvain, Maurice van der Linden, Yesking, joe vaughn, Micheal Wilson, Daaku, Espen Sande Larsen, Deepanshu Biniwale, Alexis Barrera, Kalie Pillar, ConcernedOnlooker, Margaret, Vinay Murthy, Finesse TheGod, Fraser PArk Vlad, AdamJ, Alexander Verharen, Susan Soard, Pete, Jaidyn Janis, Joe, AndyL, and Paul Williams for supporting us this week. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of StarTalk Radio ad-free and a whole week early.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.