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This is the final episode of 37. My 38th birthday is Friday-TWIZTEENTH and I'm taking notes from one of my favorite books in the Bible- the Book of Nehemiah- to rebuild, restore, and restart going forward. Click here for the MM donation link: https://checkout.square.site/merchant/D135FAXVEN2D7/checkout/Y67QJUO2WKX5JDCDGENK7UPU?src=sheet

This episode is all about the capacity of your practice — what's on your mind for growth, as well as components in your practice that might surprise you in boosting your production. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiff (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. Like we say every single time, we truly, truly do love podcasting and we love what we do. I think getting into it, ⁓ Dana and I, we just spent some time figuring out what this podcast was going to mean and how we were gonna take it. So sometimes it can be like a little daunting, I feel like. But once we get started, ⁓ I think it just flows and and we love it. So, Dana, thank you for workshopping this title and this   project with us today and how are you doing? It's like full blown summer in Arizona. ⁓ it's hot and it's beautiful. And I know we chatted last week and I said are sports done and I was like, yeah, that's right. Sports are never done. So Dana, how are you? How's life down there in the Tucson area?   DAT-Dana (00:48) It's doing really good. Like you said, summer's in full swing, so sunshine's out, kids are, yep, back at sports. ⁓ I just feel like I don't know. I am a su I always say I'm like a lizard. I like to soak up the Arizona sunshine, but I do feel like as the older I get, sometimes these summers get a little bit more brutal every year.   Tiff (01:07) I   agree. I keep saying, is it actually is it getting hotter? Is it getting harder? Or am I getting older and less tolerant? Because I'm the same. I'm a lizard. My ⁓ my family calls me the the lizard because I we even went to the pool yesterday and I was like, no, I don't wanna actually be in the water. Like I just want to be in the sun, feeling it on my body. It makes me feel good. But I'm the same way that I'm like I'm just I'm getting so much less tolerant. I really do think that Yeah. Yeah. I know.   DAT-Dana (01:25) And so.   Yeah. Yeah. fun fine.   Tiff (01:36) I know. Well,   today's content I think ⁓ I'm excited about. Like I said, we workshopped it and I think we came up with some really solid solid pieces here because I think this is something, especially at this time of year, actually, that a lot of doctors and practice owners, one, you get that like itch mid year that you're like, Am I doing enough? Do I need to do something else? And then we see a lot of doctors kind of like sideswipe their team and really just undercut and be like, We're adding something different or we're changing everything up or   Whatever. ⁓ and also at this time of the year, I know for us, at least with our clients, it's a time of year that we really start thinking about next year. I know that seems kind of wild, but that like June, July, August, September timeframe, we're really starting to project, okay, what's left of this year, how are we going to make those goals and exceed those goals? And then what is that gonna roll into for the following year? So this kind of subject that we have today, this this chat, I think falls right into that. And what we want to chat through is capacity.   I love that word. I love the word capacity because it can mean so many different things. I think there's like capacity of our mind. And I talk with with practices in Dana, I know you do too of capacity for team members a lot. Like what is their capacity and not just their time capacity and what they're able to do, but also like their brains, right? How much, how much pivoting can they do in one day? How much how much different subjects can they take on in one day? And what's that capacity? But really today I want to chat capacity of your   Practice and your numbers. And Dana, you spoke really eloquently about this a second ago. And I want to I want to bring that back around to the capacity of the practice because I think first and foremost, when a practice owner thinks about growth, they think, okay, I need more operatories. I need a second practice. And I need, I need, I need. And it's like, yeah, we sometimes we do have to invest to recoup.   benefits, right? So we do have to invest and we have to we have to grow the physical space. ⁓ and I and I think for so long in dentistry it was like how many practices do you have like the first question people asked and how big is your practice? What's your revenue? How many patients do you have? And those questions still swim around and it can make a practice owner feel like they're reaching and grasping for something that they're not even really sure that they want yet. And I know Dana you've seen that too and something that I love watching   our team work with their practices in is really growing within the capacity of the the physical capacity that they have within their practice without having to make that initial investment. But also Dana, I've watched you like grow into that. So projecting and saying, cool, then at this point or in one year, in two years, in three years, this is the capacity, the physical capacity that we want to get to. So I want to really dispel the fact that capacity means we have to   actually grow the physical space because I think Dana there's so much to be grown within the space that we have. And I want to talk through those pieces so that a lot of our listeners here today might pick up something that they're like, gosh, I never thought about that or ⁓ I forgot to do that. There's a lot of those, I forgot to do that piece. So when a doctor comes to you, Dana, and they're like, Dana, I need to grow but I have no more hours. I have   I'm tapped, I don't know what to do. What are some of the first places as a dental consultant that you look at with those practices?   DAT-Dana (05:03) Yeah, I think a couple things. I think that I look at like how comprehensive are we treating the patients within your practice? So are there things that we're letting walk out the door that we are skilled and know how to do that we can keep within the practice, which helps us, I think, just more comprehensively treat patients, which naturally will grow production.   ⁓ I love that you said yes, we're at maximum hours, but I do think that's always a place to look before you look at more space, before you look at expanding. Can you just add hours somewhere? and oftentimes those early morning, those evening hours, patients really, really like too. So we feel like those can stay full. I also will look at insurance participation. Can we change insurance participation and again be able to maybe even lessen our capacity but keep growing our practice with patients?   who align a little bit more with what we're looking for as far as like patient avatar ideal patient.   Tiff (06:00) Yeah, I love that I have a lot of practices that are doing that right now in this like June, July, August timeframe. So that in September, October, we can start at least sending those letters that say, Hey, will you increase our fee schedules? Because there are so many that are out of line. And I think that's a huge discussion ⁓ that's been going around really for the last like two to three years. But I think very, very soon it's not even gonna be a discussion anymore. It's just gonna be a thing of the past. So we are approaching that, I think.   You're totally spot on the fee schedules, fee schedule analysis too for your practice. And I think, Dana, understanding I have a practice I understand that you can do this at any point. You can analyze your fees, you can request fee schedule increases. It doesn't depend on your contract with the insurance company. Just request those fee schedule increases because the worst that they can do is say no. And then you evaluate your contract obligations with them and what you want to do for your practice. We get so scared of like, well,   When can we? It's like they're they don't actually tell you. You just do it. You just do it and then they tell you yes or no. I have a practice that actually increases their fees ⁓ during the summer. And so a lot of practices will wait and they're like, it needs to be January because that's like a fresh start. And I think for me, Dana, it makes me think of like I'll start my diet on Monday. ⁓ no, it's fine, I'll just I'll do it on Monday. And then we get to like December, January, and they're like, Well, wait, we didn't tell the patients yet. And then they hold back, they hold back, and then it's a whole nother year again.   before we do fee schedule increases. And it just doesn't have to be that dramatic. And that can significantly increase the dollar amounts coming in, which is ultimately our end goal, right? And I think it's like in dentistry it's hard because we're healthcare professionals. So focusing in on those dollars and being like, gosh, you know, charging $1200 for an implant   seems crazy because we came from a spot where we were charging six forty two not that long ago, right? It feels like not that long ago in dentistry dentistry is so progressive and it changes so constantly. We have to stay up on on our fees and we have to stay up on the times where dental insurance doesn't do that. It can hold us back from making sure that we're increasing those fees to where they should be and that we're you guys are making the   the dollar amounts, the overhead structure that you want to and that you should. So making sure that you're looking at those is massive. And then Dana, you also said that the patient avatar, and I have I have some the clients that have, gosh, like thousands upon thousands upon thousands of patients and evaluating the actual patient base. So active patient base is, you know, whomever's been seen within the last 18 months. And then looking at are those patients even our ideal   avatar. I've had clients that have had to basically dismiss patients because their patient base was too clean. So it was like we either we either keep clean patients and don't have dentistry to do or we reevaluate our patient base and start restructuring for the structure that we actually want to do. And that for you, Dana, I think was kind of twofold because you said the patient avatar and then you also said the dentistry like that we want to do and that things that we can keep   in the practice. So what have you seen with your your clients when they do that patient avatar and they're like, gosh, actually this is the ideal patient. This is my patient demographic, because it can't we can't live in the middle of I don't know, retirement community and be like, we're gonna do Botox, the whole like we're gonna do all the Botox, right? We've got to make sure that we're dealing with the patients that we also have. So what do you see as far as capacity and being able to grow financially?   within those constraints.   DAT-Dana (09:42) Yeah.   I think that it it like you said, it like the creating your ideal patient allows you to kind of see, like, are you serving the people in the community that you want to be serving? And are you doing the type of dentistry that one they need and two that also you like to be doing? And sometimes those things can be, you know, you have to figure out how they work within the community that you have if it's the dentistry that you love. But I think taking a look at your patient avatar allows you to see, like, are we currently serving the patients who like really   align with what we're looking for in our practice. And when you don't, right, then you can start to say, hey, okay, let's put some systems in place. Just try to get our patient base a little bit more aligned with what we like to do as far as the type of dentistry. And to just like the patients that we feel like we best serve and we can best impact. And I think when you start to do these things, I always say, yeah, we've we get to a point in our patient base where patients get healthy. And it might not be all of our patient base, but certainly some of our patient base. That's the goal of recares, right?   We have recare patients, we bring them back, they continue to occasionally have things pop up, but for the most part, we've gotten them steady and stable. And then I think then it's the next layer. Okay, they're steady and stable, but do they love their smile? And if they don't love their smile, what do you have in your toolbox, right? That can help do that next layer. I think sometimes we get into like, hey, you know, I am getting a lot of new patients, but they're just healthy patients, right? They've been seen every six months. That doesn't mean there's nothing we can do for them. And sometimes creating your patient avatar and   Tiff (10:55) Yeah.   DAT-Dana (11:12) looking at your services helps expand like your way of thinking and the things that you can do for them to continue honestly and truly to continue doing dentistry on either your patient base or we've got to make a switch, right? And we've got to start to transition some of our patient base so that it is more ideal.   Tiff (11:24) Yeah.   Yeah, I love that. So something to consider as we were talking, I was thinking about like metrics and the metrics that we like to utilize within our ⁓ consulting to really help be able to account for capacity, right? Actual physical space capacity and patient patient-based capacity. And something we love to do is to consider the number of patients per hygiene day.   Now this can get a little confusing because you think just day of the week, right? There's seven days of the week. There's typically five days that are worthy of being open. ⁓ sometimes six if you're Saturday, and most of you are probably four days a week. Well, within those four days, you could have exponential amounts of hygiene days. So if Monday you've got three hygienists, that's three hygiene days. So per hygiene day per week, we really want to see 200 hygiene.   Active patients per hygiene day. So if on Monday you've got three hygienists working the full day, that's 600 active patients per that day. So you multiply that by every day of the week, and that tells you how many recare patients we tip we like easy numbers. You guys, 200 is an easy number. We love that. So we typically are going to use some formula to that capacity that will tell us how many active patients per hygiene day you should have.   And if you reverse engineer that, Dana, I love this because it tells us the capacity of our hygiene department, meaning, do we need more hygienists? Because doctors are always like, Do I should I want to hire? It's hard to hire. I've got a hygienist on the books, or I think I have I need more hygiene hours. I'm booked out this far. And honestly and truly, I feel like when we wait for that space where we're like, gosh, I'm at capacity, I can't fit any more patients, I'm booked out too far. That's when we're scrambling and trying to fix the space issue. And we get into this like frenzy.   Whereas if we're watching our our hygiene numbers, we're watching our active patient count and our new patients plus attrition, we can see what our capacity is going to be and we can better project when do I need to hire another hygienist and do I have the space for that? So if you if you work those numbers, you can start to see, okay, I have enough patients in my patient base right now to supply X amount of hygienists with X amount of working days. Now, given my   new patient count coming in and my attrition meaning how many am I losing on the back end, which should be very, very, very small. You guys, it should be patients moving or losing patients. I'm not gonna say why. you guys can understand. I don't like saying that. They just they're gone. So they didn't leave us for another dental practice. They moved away somewhere. ⁓ So that's your attrition. But taking those into consideration you can start to do the math and see okay with this new patient inflow,   I'm getting a positive net of new patients of X per month. This is how long it's gonna be that I'm gonna need another hygienist. So then Dana, I would say like probably two months ahead of that ish, maybe three, start looking for a hygienist. It's starting to get like finding an associate dentist anymore. So two to three months ahead of when you might need them, I would really start projecting and looking at.   hiring them. Now capacity-wise, Dana, that slides into, okay, this doctor that's listening now is like, cool, well, my I don't have an operatory. Okay, great. Well, now we look at some other options. And Dana, when there's ⁓ an option and not an option of another operatory, what do you like to look at for when you do ⁓ add in those hygienists for capacity wise?   DAT-Dana (15:04) Yeah. I think it is. It comes to are there days that we can add? Are there hours that we can add anywhere to be able to serve the patients? And again, I mean, yes, we're getting new patients in this scenario, but sometimes it's just to serve the patients who've been with the practice, right? Or just our recare patients. So how can we manipulate hours? How can we manipulate days? Is there any room anywhere ⁓ to be able to   see more patients within the allotted space. And you know, I will say I've got a practice in on the East Coast and it's just a three operatory practice, right? So we're constantly, constantly trying to game plan this capacity thing because there is no room for expansion. There is no and like they love the location. They and so we do you have to get a little bit creative. And sometimes it means like we do have a part-time hygienist that comes in on Saturdays. We do have a part-time hygienist that comes in on Fridays. We do we've expanded hours, we've done some kind   Tiff (15:38) yeah.   DAT-Dana (15:58) of   like split shift. And ⁓ again, I know sometimes offices hesitate with that, but like honestly and truly just ask your team, right? Your team will tell you like what they're willing and what they're not willing to do. And sometimes you'll be surprised how even manipulating shifts actually helps team members in their personal lives, right? We have those moms that maybe want to drop their kids off at school in the morning. So not starting until 10 is great for them. Right. And so until we have these conversations with team and we look at all these avenues and all the doors that we could open   the levers that we could pull to really be able to continue to grow even if we are at max capacity. I think that there are a number of things to look at before having to find a new building or add a second location or ⁓ those types of things. And so it can be a mix of changing hours, it can be a mix of adding providers, it can be a mix of adding days, all the things before it has to go to that point.   Tiff (16:41) Mm.   Yeah. That was a great ⁓ that was a great visual. The office, the three pr the three op practice. I definitely have I have one that's a four op and three hygienists. ⁓ so I I totally agree. And I love also in your mix there, you're talking about like adding hours and working. I they added hours there they're expanding by hours, but also something that I love doing is that smart scheduling.   Right. Block scheduling is wonderful. I know other people who love it. There are people who hate it. There are people who don't understand it. But block scheduling can truly, truly make it so that you can see your capacity so you can better schedule for one, but then also better prep and better like move forward. Something that I love doing is really looking at when you've got a smaller operator when you have 11 and you're like, I need the twelfth. You're like, cool, that's fine too. Take a day, look at your schedule and say, Okay, maybe on Wednesdays.   My doctor's gonna do like heavy, heavier appointments on doctor side. So we've got, you know, high production, high value production all day. Maybe there's some assistant driven stuff so they can still do some exams, but then I've got a hygienist that's running just SRPs. So like Wednesday is she's in doctor's operatory. So doc loses an operatory, doc is doing heavy in one column, doc loses an operatory, and I've got heavy SRPs. So we're not losing the production.   We're gaining the production and able to do the recares on the other days so that we can project out or Fridays. I have a lot of hygienists that will do that'll love to come in on a half day on Friday for like four hours and just bust out SRPs because back-to-back SRPs is hard, but it's when you've got a half a day of it, it's kind of like quick, easy production, get it done, and it makes it more valuable coming in for on a Friday. Yeah. And   Outside of that, so not even outside of that, I would say all of this combined. If your fee schedules are in alignment, if you know your capacity of your patient base, meaning how many patients do you have, how many hygienists do you need for that, how many doctors do you need for that, the capacity of your time, right? How how long are you working and are you being super effective and efficient within those hours? I've seen a lot of doctors as well. This is something we haven't mentioned yet. I did mention like block scheduling and eff efficient scheduling and hygiene.   But I've also seen a lot of doctors that are like willy-nilly doing a couple fillings here and there or the the front office ⁓ scheduling team is really just scheduling them to fill the schedule so there's no white space. I but it's not effective scheduling. And so we're really not producing what we should be, but we're also not using our chair time effectively. So when we have those smaller appointments, we're turning that room over so much. And if you think about it, Dana, I'm like, gosh, there's ten minutes at the beginning minimum.   DAT-Dana (19:23) I see.   Tiff (19:47) 10 minutes at the end minimum that an assistant is turning over that room. And so we're losing 20 minutes every appointment that's non-productive time. And within that, if we've got filling, filling, filling, filling, filling, and docs having to get up to go do exams, our our filling appointment, our filling appointment is longer because he, she has to get up and go do exams. Plus, we're losing that turnover time every single time. So if we can   utilize something like blocked scheduling or smart scheduling, however you want to do it, to not back to back to back the little appointments. They're gonna happen. I'm not saying overdiagnose and over-treat to not have little appointments. I'm saying let's butt those up against longer appointments so we're not losing that time. Is that something that you often see Dana within that with your with your client base of really restructuring the schedule to get the capacity up.   DAT-Dana (20:40) Yeah, I do. And and I usually will tackle it from like that's when we actually feel the capacity restraint, right? That's when it's like, my gosh, we're so burnt out and we're so and sometimes it is like, hey, can we schedule a little bit better so that like yes, we can value our time, we can make our time more efficient. And I always joke around with practices and say, can I get you to goal with 31 surface fillings? Yes, but can I get you there with three crowns? And doesn't that feel different?   Tiff (20:46) Mm.   DAT-Dana (21:06) Right. So I also think it's like how much we feel our capacity, right? Because that is so many more check-ins and checkouts and insurance verifications and like the workload just like duplicates and replicates for everybody on the team. And just like you said, then doctor having to get up and and you know, all that room turnover that happens with   Tiff (21:06) Yeah.   Yeah.   DAT-Dana (21:25) The clinical team. So I do feel like when you schedule strategically too, it helps you not feel the capacity restraints as well as allows you to be super efficient with your time and making sure that we're using like every 10 minutes we have within the day to be able to take care of patients.   Tiff (21:43) Yeah, I totally agree. I have a practice that just last week, ⁓ one of the doctors was like, I'm over this. I'm done. I'm I'm burnt out. And like we're over here trying to like untangle ⁓ financial stuff and and we're trying to untangle front office overload work overload and get things ⁓ efficient in both those areas and understood and do all of these like willy nilly appointments and anyways, yes. It it was like that was the breaking point was the   capacity and feeling like something's gotta give. Well, it's probably within your scheduling. I completely agree. And I feel that way too. If I if I overload my personal schedule or my work schedule and I've got too much going on and they're like, gosh, like these little tiny errands or calls, if I do my 30 minute coaching calls back to back for an entire day, I am exhausted at the end of the day compared to if I can get a couple of big chunked hour coaching calls in between those 30 minutes, I'm much more productive.   And I feel so much better at the end of the day. And it makes me think how lucky I am that I have been in dentistry for as long as I have been. And then I'm able to look at a schedule and really, really create a productive schedule for myself. So I love it, Dana. I I think action item-wise, ⁓ whether you're feeling capacity or not, I would constantly evaluate this area because the worst thing in my mind that I do for myself is wait until I'm burnt out to look at my capacity.   To wait until I'm burnt out to say something's got to give on my schedule. I really like looking at my schedule ahead and being like, that's gonna suck. Let me restructure, let me figure something out. Or like we do it too with our calls. You know, how many calls do we have? What does that look like? How can we get that done within the capacity of our timing? So I would say don't wait until it hurts to fix it. Make sure that you've got it ahead of time so that you cut the capacity doesn't burn you out. So   Evaluating the number of active patients you have, evaluating what you will have given your new patient influx and your attrition. Also, I really, really strongly advise ⁓ reactivation campaigns so that you're grasping a lot of the people who maybe attritioned out before. Your hygiene team, I think, will love you for that. Dana can Dana can do a whole podcast on not forgetting about our recare patients and the patients we already have. That is one hygiene 101. So make sure you're doing your patients right.   so evaluating your patient base, making sure you know what you have, what you're going to need, and evaluating your schedule. So before you even add hours, before you add days, look at are you being the most efficient and effective with the time that you have? Don't take more time away. ⁓ be super effective and efficient with the time that you have and be ⁓ collecting the fees. One, be collecting the fees you're already charging. So look at your AR. Two, charge.   what you deserve and collect the fees that you should be and then look at opening hours, opening days, and then look at opening more space in your practice is how I would recommend looking at that before jumping straight into more, more, more, bigger, bigger, better. And I think Dana, we are getting to the point of life where we're understanding bigger isn't always better. I love it. Awesome.   DAT-Dana (25:03) Yep, agreed.   Tiff (25:05) Hey Dana, thank you so much for this podcast today. This was fun. I'm glad we workshopped it ahead of time. I loved your ideas. ⁓ and everyone, thank you for listening. Drop us a five star review below. We love to hear your ideas, and that is an absolutely perfect place to put them. People read them. don't forget to subscribe and download these so that you'll always have them and you can go back. So when you're here driving, which I know many of you are, you can go back and listen to all those tidbits that   Dana dropped for you today. And Hello@TheDentalATeam.com is the easiest place to reach us. And we'll catch you next time. Thank you guys.  

We are so in agreement over how great 1993s "Dazed and Confused" is that this episode probably holds the record for most on-mic "Mm-hmm"s! For the sake of making it interesting, we sprinkled in some light debates over what town this probably takes place in, how old creepy Matthew McConaughey (his character) is supposed to be, and who are the most worthy Prom King and Queen... but on that last one we still see the appeal of each other's picks. We just keep it real mellow, man.

A mysterious high-profile figure known only as "MM" has thrown Queensland into a frenzy of speculation following a dramatic extortion case in a Cairns court. With high-priced lawyers costing up to $16,000 a day to keep his identity hidden, find out why this explosive case has every prominent married man in the state under a cloud of suspicion.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Adam & Jared in Wisconsin bring you this flavorful episode! The fellas catch up on the last couple months of fishing and golf season and how the boys have been producing. We then discuss the new proposed law in Oregon that would quite literally decimate Oregon's incredible outdoors economy. Before we get into the meat Adam shares a banger for this week's perfect song. In the meat, Mm!, we play a rousing game of THIS or THAT put together by Big E. Some all-time meat discussion and laughs ensue! We also do a ranking of Nicholas Cage movies in honor of America 250! We close the show with a cold treat after a long day outside in the sun. Hut Hut! Love y'all. 

本集邀請 JC 財經觀點 Jenny 與研究員 Ralice 拆解當前是「修估值」還是長線趨勢出現變化 ? 從 Oracle 與 Broadcom 財報切入，延伸到記憶體降規疑慮、AI 五層蛋糕投資地圖。同步聚焦最新 CPI 和就業數據，及新任主席上任後的聯準會政策變化。 最後也深入聊到 SpaceX IPO、xAI 併入後的算力版圖、Anthropic 與 OpenAI 的上市期待，帶你掌握 AI、總經與 IPO 狂潮交錯下的波動行情。

On the #amwriting podcast's “Margin Notes,” Jennie Nash talks with Dr. Diana Hill (author of Wise Effort) about how the urge to prove yourself—through resumes, accolades, or “pre-order my book” pleas—undermines authenticity and connection, especially when pitching ideas, proposals, or personal brands. Hill describes confronting this while rebranding her website and shifting from listing credentials to articulating the real user experience and who the work is and isn't for, using specific language that reflects her core value of awareness/attunement rather than generic, AI-like claims. They unpack the psychology behind proving (seeking safety, belonging, and autonomy) and suggest asking which need is driving the behavior, aiming instead to demonstrate value, embrace vulnerability, and rely on trusted “tough love” feedback.Books Mentioned* Wise Effort by Dr. Diana HillJoin the Blueprint Summer ChallengeStarting a book? Stuck in a draft? Planning a revision?The Blueprint Summer Challenge is designed to help you make meaningful progress on your manuscript this summer.Over six weeks, beginning July 10, you'll use the Blueprint—a proven framework for developing stronger books with greater clarity, purpose, and reader impact—to move your project forward, wherever you are in the process.Whether you're writing nonfiction, memoir, fiction, or another genre entirely, the goal is simple: spend six focused weeks making your book stronger.Start with the Blueprint CourseWe're offering an all-new Blueprint course in Teachable, which includes:* The full text of The Blueprint* Fourteen video lessons covering every step of the framework* Real coaching examples that show writers applying the Blueprint to their own projects* Practical guidance you can use immediatelyThe course is designed to help you develop a stronger foundation for your book—whether you're beginning from a blank page, working through a draft, or planning a revision.Course enrollment: $19

Moments come and go but the feelings will carry you to the top and once you're at the top that moment will last forever! Click here for the MM donation link: https://checkout.square.site/merchant/D135FAXVEN2D7/checkout/Y67QJUO2WKX5JDCDGENK7UPU?src=sheet

In Episode 496 of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb open with a rich discussion on the theology of congregational singing — including the Trinity Psalter Hymnal, the Getty's Sing!, and why psalm-singing belongs at the heart of Christian worship. The main event, however, is the first installment of their study of the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14–30). Tony and Jesse argue that this parable is widely misread as a lesson in personal productivity or spiritual gift deployment, when in fact its center of gravity is entirely eschatological and theological: the wicked servant's failure is not financial incompetence — it is a catastrophic misunderstanding of who the master is, and therefore, who he himself is as a servant of that master. Key Takeaways The parable is eschatological, not motivational. Situated in Matthew 25 as the second of three eschatological parables in the Olivet Discourse, the Parable of the Talents answers the disciples' question about the sign of Christ's coming — not a general lesson about using your abilities for God. "Talents" refers to an enormous monetary sum, not personal giftedness. A single talent represented roughly 20 years of a laborer's wages. Even the least-endowed servant received an immense, unearned gift — which makes the wicked servant's inaction all the more indefensible. The wicked servant's problem is theological, not financial. He doesn't bury the talent out of ignorance or fear alone — he actively mischaracterizes the master as exploitative and unjust. His failure is a failure of theology: he does not know who his master is. The commendation "Well done, good and faithful servant" is the basic reward of every believer, not a tiered prize for the most productive. The five-talent and two-talent servants receive identical commendations, suggesting the measure is proportional faithfulness, not absolute output. Faithful stewardship is active, not passive. Both faithful servants are marked by immediacy and energetic engagement. The parable does not explain how they doubled their talents because the mechanics are not the point — their disposition of active, risk-taking faithfulness is. The parable resists works-righteousness readings. Whether one is Augustine or an anonymous deathbed convert, every justified believer enters into the same joy of the master. The parable is not a theology of graduated heavenly rewards but a distinction between those who understand their master and those who do not. The talents represent the stewardship of the Gospel and the Kingdom itself. The master entrusting his servants with his property is a picture of Christ entrusting the church with the message of salvation — ownership remains with the master, the servants are stewards, not proprietors. Key Concepts The Wicked Servant's Problem Is Who He Thinks the Master Is The most common misreading of this parable locates the wicked servant's failure in laziness or timidity — he was simply too afraid to act. But Tony Arsenal argues compellingly that the servant's own words expose something far more serious. He says, "I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow." This is not a confession of fear; it is an accusation. The servant has constructed a theology of his master as an exploitative, unjust overseer who doesn't deserve a return. What he catastrophically misses is that the very possession of 20 years' worth of wages — an unearned, unimaginable gift — is the master sowing into him. His refusal to act is, at its root, a refusal to acknowledge the master's generosity and authority. This is the parable's most penetrating theological edge. "Well Done" Is for Every Believer, Not Just the Most Productive One of the episode's most pastorally significant observations is Tony's argument that the commendation "Well done, good and faithful servant — enter into the joy of your master" is not reserved for spiritual high-achievers. Because the five-talent and two-talent servants receive word-for-word identical commendations despite wildly different absolute returns, the logical entailment is that the one-talent servant, had he been faithful, would have received the same words. This means the commendation is not calibrated to productivity — it is the basic inheritance of every believer who enters glory. The soul-winner and the deathbed convert, Augustine and the unknown faithful, all hear the same welcome. The parable is therefore not teaching a graduated hierarchy of heavenly reward, but a binary distinction: those who know their master and act accordingly, and those who do not. The Parable Cannot Be Detached from Its Eschatological Context Jesse Schwamb is careful to anchor the parable in its literary and theological context: this is the second of three eschatological parables in Matthew 25, all part of the Olivet Discourse, all delivered in direct response to the disciples' question about the sign of Christ's return and the end of the age. Detaching the Parable of the Talents from that frame — and reading it instead as a general productivity principle or a theology of spiritual gifts — drains it of what Jesse calls its "gravity." The master going away and returning after a long time is a direct image of the ascended Christ and his parousia. The servants' task during the interval is not self-improvement or career stewardship — it is watchful, active discipleship in the time between the first and second comings. Everything in the parable, including the staggering sums of money, is calibrated to that eschatological frame. Memorable Quotes The real difference is that the former servants understood that their master had trusted them with a task and expected something of them, and the unfaithful, wicked, lazy servant had a total misunderstanding of who the master was — and therefore what his role as the master's servant was. That's the point of this parable. — Tony Arsenal Well done, good and faithful servant — that's not a special commendation that only the most amazing Christian servants get. That's the basic commendation that every Christian who enters into glory will receive. Whether you have been the most productive soul-winner in the world... you're going to receive the same commendation as the person who dies, and on their deathbed the last thing that they think is, 'I trust Jesus.' — Tony Arsenal God's measure of faithfulness is proportional, not absolute. The two-talent servant is not judged by the five-talent standard. He is judged by what he received. — Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript [00:00:08] Tony Arsenal: that's not a special commendation that only the most amazing Christian servants get, right? That's the basic commendation that every Christian who enters into glory will receive. Whether you have been the most productive soul-winner in the world, whether you are the most, you know, the most sanctified Christian who's ever lived, whether you are, the most amazing person and millions of people have come to faith because of your ministry, you're going to receive the same commendation as the person who dies, and on their deathbed the last thing that they think is, I trust Jesus." Right. And they've produced no converts, no ministry, and maybe no one even knows that they were justified, because in their final moments before the lights went out, they trusted in Jesus, right? They hear the same well done, good and faithful servant when they enter into glory. Welcome to episode 496 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  And I'm Tony, and this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey, brother.  [00:01:19] Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother.  [00:01:21] Parable Teaser [00:01:21] Jesse Schwamb: You know, the parables just keep coming for us, like we've said. And on this episode, to, just to tee it up, to whet everybody's appetites, we've got three servants, one absent master, an uncomfortable amount of money. What could go wrong? Yeah. As it turns out, quite a bit, especially if you're the kind of person who responds to divine generosity by finding the nearest shovel. So we're gonna get to all of that in this, what I call, this now sandwich of eschatological parables or teachings of Jesus in Matthew 25. So hopefully you're curious, hopefully you're stoked. But you can go put your thumb right in the scriptures there, because you're gonna meet us there very, very, very, very shortly. But first we got business. It's always the business we must do, the part of the podcast where we affirm with something or deny against something. And as always, I'm really curious what you have, and now I understand you have a list, or you're keeping a list. So- I do ... never again will there be something like that falls to the cutting room floor, brothers and sisters. Tony is always gonna have for us whatever was- ... what came to his brilliant mind as an affirmation or denial at any point, day or night.  [00:02:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. Do you, Jesse, do you ever have... I know the answer to this question is going to be yes- Yeah. That's good ... but I'm gonna ask it- All right ... mostly for rhetorical effect here. This is good podcasting.  [00:02:38] Psalm 67B Praise [00:02:38] Tony Arsenal: Do you have, do you have those situations where, like, the, the so- a song hits you, and it's just, like, the right combination of words, but also the right combination of, like, musicality?  [00:02:49] Jesse Schwamb: For sure.  [00:02:50] Tony Arsenal: Where it just, like, it just, it just feels- For sure like, right and good in every part of your being. So- All the time, yep ... I, I'm affirming, um, th- this is like the most Presbyterian thing ever. I'm affirming the, the arrangement in the Trinity, uh, psalter hymnal for Psalm 67B. Now, I'm not gonna try to sing it for you, but I wanna read the words, because obviously it's, it's a paraphrase of a psalm. So, like, that's the first thing. Like, people, like, calm down. Like, it's okay to sing paraphrases. It's okay to sing. No one is actually singing the Hebrew psalms. Right. Amen. So, like, just calm down a little bit. Amen. Uh, there is a place for us to dedicate specific focus to psalms and songs that are from the psalms, but that can be something like Better Is One Day. Like, that's a song from a psalm. Anyway, that's a whole different, that's a whole different thing. Yes, I'm affirming psalm singing. Uh, yes, I'm denying overly rigid understandings of what that is. But here's the words for Psalm 67, Setting B. That's important It's, "O God, show mercy to us and bless us with your grace and cause to shine upon us the brightness of your face, so that the whole world over may truly know your way and so that your salvation all nations see displayed. O God, let peoples praise you. Let all the peoples praise. Let nations come rejoicing and songs of gladness rise, raise." Then, um, stanza two, "For you will judge the peoples with perfect equity. To nations of the whole Earth a governor you'll be. O God, let the peoples praise you. Let all the peoples praise. The Earth has brought its bounty throughout its harvest days.  [00:04:24] Why Sing Psalms [00:04:24] Tony Arsenal: Since God our God will bless us, yes, God will blessing send, that all the Earth may fear Him to its remotest end." Now, there are lots of really great, uh, theologically sound, edifying hymns and worship choruses, but there's just something about the Psalms, right? It's inspired- Um- ... it's perfect. Again, like I said, nobody is singing the actual Hebrew Psalms, or even, I shouldn't say nobody, most people are not singing, like, the Psalms from the ESV, right? These are almost all paraphrases. They're, they're translations. But there's just something about the Psalms that I have grown so much to appreciate since joining a Presbyterian church. That's not to say other traditions don't sing Psalms in their own right, and again, like, we would sing Better Is One Day and other songs that were based on Psalms. Um, even, like, real direct translations or real direct versions of Psalms, like Better Is One Day or Create In Me A Clean Heart, there's all sorts of them. But there's just something about singing the Psalms, and this particular musical setting, it's triumphant, but not in the, like, fanfare kind of triumphant. Do you know what I mean, Jesse? Like- Mm-hmm ... it's, it's a triumphant melody, and it has, like, really interesting rises and falls and... So I, I'm gonna probably try to put this at the end of the episode. So listen. Hopefully I'll get the whole thing. Let me just, let me just do this. Hold on a second. It's just gorgeous. It's just beautiful. So I, I, I don't know what it was this morning. Uh, it's, I wasn't, like, promo- particularly emotional. It didn't, like, make me cry. Yeah. But all of that's fine. Like, I've been brought to tears in worship before, and that's, that's all good and well. There was just something about it that resonated, and I was like, "This is just good." Like, this is just good music. It's good singing. Something about hearing, uh, the whole congregation singing together. Like, it was just beautiful. It was just a beautiful moment. So if you are not in a psalm-singing church, first of all, why aren't you in a psalm-singing church? Uh, no worship leader on Earth, no, no person who is worth... Uh, when I say worship leader, I mean the person who's responsible for leading musical worship. No one who's leading worshipful music, worshipful? Worship music, if you approach them and say, "I would like to sing more songs that are based on the Psalms," if they say, "We don't wanna sing Psalms here," then you just go somewhere else. Like, someone who tells you, like, "We don't wanna s- we don't wanna sing God's Word," that doesn't make any sense to me.  [00:06:56] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:56] Tony Arsenal: Um, now again, like, there's a way to do it. Sometimes musically they're challenging, especially if you're singing out of something like the hymnal. But again, there are plenty of really good modern style songs and hymn style songs that are either based on the Psalms or are paraphrases, very similar to what you get in the, in the Trinity Psalter Hymnal. Or most, most people who are leading in musical worship are competent enough to just sort of take the sheet music and figure out how to do it on guitar or figure out how to play it on piano. Um, they're not that difficult. So you will be edified if you do this. Your church will be edified. There's probably a lot of people out there responsible for musical worship that actually would really like to do this, and they're kind of probably, like, just waiting for that nudge, so you may even be benefiting them. But yeah, this, this psalm is beautiful. It's just a gorgeous arrangement, and it's, it's perfect, inspired words. Really was a, just a, a balm to my soul this morning.  [00:07:51] Jesse Schwamb: I love it. And o- of course, a lot of that is still happening, which is such a glorious gift to the church. The couple of times that I've had the privilege of writing music for my own church has been right from the scriptures, and for me recently that was, like, Ephesians 1 and Psalm 16. And that's mainly because, like, as a lyricist, I'm not that creative, and I'd rather go direct to the source. And all those end up being a paraphrase, like you said, anyway. Es- especially if you wanna get turn of phrase or if you wanna have a little bit of rhyming, which is always a beautiful thing. I love the Psalter, and my, my hot take on that is I sometimes find that I like, I don't wanna call them, like, the alternate, but, like, the other secondary arrangements-  Yeah and  lyrics better. I don't know why. I don't think that's purposeful, of course. It's probably just my taste. But I always find them to be, like, super fire. I, I don't know why. The, the B and C versions always kinda grab me, especially if... And here's another thing that I appreciate about the Psalter, as you know, is sometimes those B or C versions will be written in an alternate key or a minor key. Yeah. And that's even more awesome, because there's not a lot of, let's say, like, cla- I don't wanna say classic. Classic slash contemporary, uh, Christian music or wors- quote-unquote worship music that's written in minor keys. But it's good to lament, as we've talked about before. So- Yeah ... you're gonna get that full breath and scope in the Psalter there. [00:09:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:09:07] Beyond Music Styles [00:09:07] Tony Arsenal: A- and, you know, maybe let me put in one more little plug here. Um- I am not one of those people that is gonna say that there's like a particular style of music that's more godly than another. I've heard people try to make arguments that there's like certain kinds of rhythms or certain kinds of like beats that are- Right either, either more godly or somehow demonic or less godly. Um, I think there might be an argument to be made that some styles of worship are not suited well for congregational singing, so they may not be appropriate for like a, a congregational worship service. Like, you're probably not gonna go in and do a lot of hip hop and have the congregation be able to like stick with you. Right. That doesn't mean that you can't worship God through that or that it somehow is less like intrinsically beautiful. But, um, there are a lot of Let me just put it this way. In modern contemporary Western Christianity, uh, there's a lot of songs that are basically just the same thing musically. You know, you'll find, um, if you go to, like, YouTube, and, and maybe, like, be careful, 'cause sometimes some of these are, they're funny but they're a little bit crass. But if you look up, like, a video about how, like, every song is Pachel Bell's Canon. Right. Right? Every song follows the same basic arrangement of chords, and this gets even more pronounced when you're talking about modern worship music or contemporary mu- worship music, because it's designed to be able to be very simple and very easily played. Um, a lot of times worship directors are not super classically trained. Um, you think of, like, the youth pastor with the guitar around the campfire. Like, those kinds of songs have to be easy, 'cause they're not, like, classically trained guitar players. They probably picked up a chord book and figured out how to play a couple easy songs like Jesus, Lover of My Soul and things like that. That's how I learned how to play guitar. That's the extent of my skills, so I'm not, I'm not banging on that person. Um, but there are a lot, there's a lot more to music. Um, there's a lot more to singing, and there's a lot more to choral music than, you know, GCDC kind of like worship courses. Uh, and singing something like the Psalter, or even just singing out of a good hymnal- Right will actually expand your musical horizons. And there's something to be said about the creativity of our God being reflected in the creativity of His people that I do think we miss out on when we are locked into really simplistic worship styles. Um, again, like, I interpret Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to mean, like, sing in the vernacular of the people. Um, and I, you know, that's a different episode. We can talk about that sometime. But th- that, that requires the songs to be singable, and I think sometimes, uh, sometimes some of the song- some of the Psalters, some of the songs in the Psalter hymnals, and sometimes hymnals in general, are very difficult to sing. And so I think a congregation, the people leading in music need to be thoughtful of that. But I think you would do well to, like, open your horizons a little bit to something a little bit more challenging and a little bit off the beaten path. Like, this melody, I don't know the chords behind it. It may not be anything crazy, but that, like, musicality and that, that sort of, like, melody is not a typical... And this might be why it resonated with me. It's not a typical kind of melody you're gonna find in contemporary music. Um, it's, it's very different. It's older. It's more classically styled. The, it's, it's meant to sort of bring you up to these crescendos in ways that modern music is not necessarily. So enough about that. I don't know a lot about music theory, so I might be totally wrong and, and- ... people might be rolling their eyes. But I, I do think that there's something to it. Like, a lot of the older hymns- utilize chord progressions and melodies and harmonies and things like that that we're just not used to. You're not gonna get that listening to, you know, even something like, like the more musical kind, uh, more technically proficient music like something like Bethel or Hillsong, which is at times musically very good. Uh, I don't know that I would recommend listening to it, but the music is actually, like, technically very good in some instances. Uh, even there you're not gonna find a lot of this stuff. So instead of going there for, like, really nice sounding musical worship, just go to something like the Trinity Psalter app. You know, for $10 on a- on your iPhone you can sing with it. Um, yeah, enough about that. I, I, I could talk about how great the Psalms are and how great psalm singing is for an entire episode. We should do that episode- We should ... when we're done with the parables, 'cause I know we've done a lot of episodes on, like, uh, on, on, like, the regulative principle and- Right I, I think we're still both in the same spot that, like- Right ... exclusive psalmody is probably not where we would land. Right. But I think I'm coming to the conviction that the psalms should have a much greater portion of our worship diet, uh- Hmm ... than they do in most churches. Um, and I really only came to that conviction when I was in a church where psalm singing was the norm. Uh, I know that we try to have at least one s- one canonical psalm for every single worship service. Usually there's multiple, but, um, even in a, a, a setting where we normally wouldn't be so focused on that, we still try to have at least one, and it's been a, a really huge edifying thing to my soul.  [00:14:06] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I absolutely love that. You'll find no complaint from me on that. I think that that's a good reminder for all of us.  [00:14:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:14:14] Book Sing Recommendation [00:14:14] Tony Arsenal: Jesse, what do you have?  [00:14:15] Jesse Schwamb: Well, it's, we're not gonna stop this conversation, just so you know. Because we don't sync up on these things ever, but it just so happens that I'm affirming with a book that it's a really simple primer on congregational singing-  There you go that has  long been on my list and overdue to read, and I am coming in hot with a recommendation for this, and that is the book entitled Sing! How Worship Transforms Your Life, Family, and Church by Keith and Kristyn Getty. And really, it covers so many of the things that you already talked about. I, I think at the foremost, it's a reminder that God cares whether in what we sing, but he does not mind how well we sing. Yes. But it is, like, the, this... What's true is that our voices might not be of a professional standard, but they are of a confessional standard. Yeah. And so it is incumbent upon every Christian to sing. And if you need just, like, a little bit of inspiration, so to speak, or a reminder of why that's important, I highly commend this book to you. In fact, in the back they have what's called, like, these bonus tracks. It's like four or five separate chapters that they've written just to particular people in the church, pastors, laypeople, musicians, even the people that help produce the sound. I found that bit to be so lovely and pastoral. It, it's gentle, the tone is encouraging, but it is also strong, and I appreciate that. So a lot of it is some of the themes that we've just talked about, but my conviction grows all the time of just how important congregational singing is, and how everything you just said, the music, the liturgy that we bring forward- has to be of a deliberate kind to strengthen that exercise, to make it easy, so to speak. And that does come into practical things like if you look at the psalter, and I, I don't... I have it on my phone, but I don't know where my phone is, so I was gonna look at the one you were referencing. My guess is it's, it's in probably a key with a couple of sharps in it, because those are the ones that are easiest to sing. So even little things like that matter. What you hear on the radio often is, or radio? People still listen to the radio? What you hear, like, in, like, contemporary music, like, often is not necessarily for congregational singing just in its key, and, and that's okay. And so even in my own church, we transpose things to make it reasonable and approachable. But what I think was, like, the critical question put forward in this book that I absolutely loved as a great reminder was: how did the congregation sing? It's very interesting that they kind of bring forward this thesis that that's how you should be judging your music. How did the congregation sing? And I think if we started asking that, it might slightly tweak or maybe change altogether, to your point, the methods and the practices that we use when we undergo worship by way or through music. So this is really great. It's easily readable, and it's for everybody, and it, there's a chapter on family worship as well, how to bring singing into your home and music into your home all the time as an act of worship so that when you get to the Lord's Day, your kids are like, "Yeah, this is our jam." Uh, especially maybe even recognizing some of the pieces of music and be excited about that. So there was a lot that made me think about here. It's fantastic. And to your point, Tony, I would say the Gettys, especially in, like, "Christ Alone," some of the other things, this is probably the closest to what you're talking about, where they've taken and imported kind of the classical hymn structures-  [00:17:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah [00:17:27] Jesse Schwamb: but modernized a little bit just the language while without sacrificing any of the theological richness or the musicality that draws your ear to those beautiful rising and falling melodies, the swelling of the vocal there, without, like, distracting from anything that's going on there. It's not emotionalism- Yeah but it certainly is filled with the emotion of what it means to be a Christian and to sing in response as an act of praise to God.  [00:17:50] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:17:52] Family Worship Singing [00:17:52] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I can't underscore enough the importance of congregational singing. We, we've, we've actually talked about, about it in context of, like, how important it is for the men of the congregation to sing, which is something I, I really appreciate about my congregation, is, is the m- the men just go all out. Like, people are, like- Love it ... nobody is, nobody is ashamed of the fact that they squawk on a note that they're not used to or anything like that. And where this really pays out, um, at least in our congregation, but I'd, I'd be willing to bet if you go to any congregation where the, where the men particularly are passionate and active in musical worship, right? Um, I think where this plays out is you see the children very quickly picking up those songs and learning them and singing them. And the, the favorite part of my day, this is gon- any parent of toddlers is gonna be like, "What are you talking about?" Bedtime is one of my favorite times of day, not just because it means that, like, in a little while I'm gonna get a little peace and quiet. Like, that's part of it, too, but there are two songs that we sing almost every single night, and Augie leads them, which is really great. He always wants to start, and he always wants to sing, and it's the Doxology and the Gloria Patri. And these are songs that he has just picked up from being in the congregation, and, you know, I, I don't remember consciously teaching him any of these songs. And now, now Adeline, who is, uh, my two-year-old daughter, almost two, she's starting to pick those songs up, and she's starting to sing them, and she recognizes them, and she responds very differently to those songs than she does to other songs. Um, it's funny because I don't, I don't know where she got this. Neither my wife nor I are particularly, uh, charismatic, emotive people. Like, we don't raise our hands when we're singing, but she, she does. She, she, when we start singing- My girl ... the Gloria Patri or the Doxology, her hand is in the air, and she's looking at the sky, and she's waving her hands around. Yeah. And, um, she recognizes that those songs have a different place than a Miss Rachel song. She doesn't put her hands in the air and wave and look up at the ceiling when Miss Rachel comes on or when Baby Shark comes on. She knows those songs. She can sing those songs. Um, but she doesn't- Respond to those in the same way. And that is a direct result of the fact that congregational singing is an important thing in the life of our church and in the life of our family. And I think a book like Sing, I haven't read it, but I've heard very good things about it, and the, the Gettys are rock solid, like- Right ... theologically. Yes. Musically. They're, they're well within our Reformed tradition, at least broadly speaking. Um, and, and they have a, they have one of the strongest sort of theologies of praise music that you're gonna find. Mm-hmm. It's not quite like a liturgiology or something like that, but it's, it's, it's a theology of praise worship, praise and worship music. Right. Um, and that's not something that's super common, right? There's a lot of theology of liturgy. There's a lot of practical theology on liturgy. Um, the Gettys have developed a really unique kind of place in things in that they've really developed this idea that congregational singing has a specific theological import, and they've developed it in a way that's approachable. So yeah, I haven't read it and I sh- I probably should, but it, it sounds like a really great book. And, um, I c- just can't underscore it enough. And- Maybe this is my little plug. Like, uh, family worship is really tough, and it's not something I've mastered. Like, we don't, we, we don't have a regular rhythm. But what we do have is we have a consistent, uh, we consistently pray at night before bed, and we consistently sing one or both of those songs. And that by itself, like, the kids are learning and they are, they're absorbing that by osmosis. Um, they're picking up the phrasing, right? Augie can tell you who the three persons of the Trinity are, and that's partially 'cause we do catechism questions, but it's also partially, and I would actually argue probably more, because of the Trinitarian structure of those two songs. Right. He's picked up the language of the Father, the Spirit, and the Son from the Gloria Patri and from the doxology in ways that probably I wouldn't have been able to teach him otherwise. So yeah. Anyway, I, I just co-opted your affirmation. But, um, but yeah. I'm here for it. Congregational worship, family worship, singing, uh, to our Lord is commanded, and it's commanded for our good- Right and for his, his benefit and his blessing. Um, and so any book that is, is solid and will help you do that, I, I'm wholeheartedly behind.  [00:22:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. This is... All that is fire. This is fire.  [00:22:19] Reclaim Congregational Song [00:22:19] Jesse Schwamb: God designed our psyche for singing, and we're probably, uh, I would say contractually obligated since Reformed is in the name of the title of the podcast- to remind ourselves and everybody else that one of the things the Reformation did was reclaim the singing of God's word by his own people. Yes. Taking it out of that performatory space back into literally the voice boxes of the people who are sitting in worship together. So sometimes we might have to do that again. You know, there is a little bit, I think, of... There, there is in some places, not everywhere, this kind of tilting of that time of worship through music to be vouchsafed or relegated to those who are, uh, let's say, like, the most, like, talented in doing that, and somehow we participate merely by observing or by- Yeah just, uh, you know, being an audience spectator of that, and that's totally backwards. So I get it. The thing is- We're all singers. We may not all be very good singers, but we're all created to be singers nonetheless. This is what the Bible tells us. So we need to lean into that. We need to invest in that. Yeah. And so I, I like, of course, what you're doing with, uh, your kids because you're not only teaching them to sing, and this makes me so happy, but you're teaching them to love singing to the Lord. Yeah. And so that is, I think, what a lot of our congregations miss, is sometimes we do it, and I'm among them often, but grudgingly. And so to get to a place where we come excited that our reasonable response, our reasonable preparation on the Lord's day is to sing together, to hear that gospel message in melody in the ear of our... You know, the voice of our neighbor in our own ear is a wild thing. It's just, like, un- unheard of. And it's like, uh, we gotta stop, right? It's one of those things also that, like- ... we've, we've talked about how it's just kind of otherworldly. Not, not only in the sense that it gives us this really kind of foundational sense of God's, you know, kind of transcendence, of what it means to participate in the worship of someone who is transcendent because it is all these voices together, but also this is something that rarely happens in any other way, especially in the Western culture anymore. This coming together to express and to participate in something where we're all reading literally from the same sheet music is just an entirely different experience, increasingly relegated to this kind of experience. So we, we must protect it, not only because God says that we ought to, but also because, again, it is, it is our reasonable response. Yeah. And it is something, like you've just said, that brings Him glory and is certainly for our good. So, uh, this is the Singcast, so everybody- ... everybody get to it. You can make your own music. God has commanded us to sing. So the sooner we just understand, like, hey, it's, it's... You know. Uh, but... And the last thing I'll say is this is one of those things that's, like, practice too. A- and I get it. Like, you may say, like, "Listen, I can only hit two notes, and that's all I'm gonna hit no matter what the music is." Well, then belt the two notes, and also know that, like, the more you practice that kind of thing, honestly, the better that you'll get and the more comfortable that you'll become. The voice is an instrument like any other instrument that takes, like, a little bit of practice and a little bit of work. But even that can cause, I think, great benefits and build a little bit of confidence. But just the example of singing and doing it from a heart that is keen to worship God and that is filled with passion to respond to Him with gratitude and, you know, adoration is really the key thing. And so I, I'd rather have a entire group full of worshipers that are singing off-key but, like, with just resounding passion than to have this performance of just a handful of voices because they feel like they're the most capable to do it. Yeah. I think we'd, we'd rather have everybody else, and to hear the congregation mixed as one of those instruments. So sing. Yeah.  [00:26:05] Everyone Can Sing [00:26:05] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and y- you and I have made the point in the past, too, like- I, I don't think, uh, maybe I'm wrong. Uh, we are a top 50 healthcare podcast, so maybe some doctor- I'm sure you're correct ... is gonna... Right. Like, I don't think being tone deaf is actually a physical condition. Like- Mm. I, I mean, I, I mean, obviously, like, some people have hearing problems, and that means they have trouble singing. I hear what you're saying. But, like, the people who are like, "Well, I j- I just can't sing. I'm just not capable of that," uh, like, I think the, the physical conditions that would make you incapable of singing are not usually what people are talking about. Like- Right. Yeah ... you know, some people have, like, vocal fold disorders or they have hearing problems, and I guess maybe, like, if perfect pitch is a thing, which it, it is. Like, perfect pitch is a... I don't know what causes it, but some people are born with perfect pitch. I suppose in theory that means some people must be born with, like, the opposite of perfect pitch. But I think most people who say, like, "Well, I just, I'm just tone deaf. I can't carry a tone," that, that's probably not true. Like, it just means you need practice. Um, and some people's voices, like physically, their bodies are more, more designed by God to produce a pleasant sound than other people. But I, I think actually just about anybody with a little bit of practice, and mostly I think this is probably just the confidence to actually sing and a little bit of practice to learn how your body works, like how your voice works, um, could probably get to a point where singing is not only very relatively comfortable and easy, but it's something that is pleasant and is not overly challenging. This is actually something that I think we've lost in the church. We should... This, I mean, this is about to come the episode, but, um- ... something we've lost in the church when we have sort of changed from a true genuine congregational singing model, which was the norm- And I've heard people make arguments about the importance of hymnals, and I, I agree with those arguments, although I know some people have moved them into almost like a realm of, like, divine mandate- Right that you have to use hymnals because it trains people to teach. But we have lost something with both the sort of commercialization of worship music and the pro- like making it a professional thing, and we've lost congregational singing. The, the people in the church throughout history have learned to sing. Many of them have learned to read, learned the scriptures, learned theology, not in the seminary and not in the monastery, but in the pew as they sing God's word and as they sing- Right ... the great theological hymns of, of the church. There's so much you can learn through that process that I just think we've lost. And I think going back to something like a hymnal or the Trinity Psalter Hymnal or whatever, whatever standard music your church is gonna use, and I mean standard music. Like, whether this is a collection of worship choruses that has been curated for the church or it's a published hymnal or something like that, going back to something like that teaches the church how to sing. And I don't remember who wrote it, but the trellis and the vine, like the worship that we sing, I know Mike Horton makes this point. The worship that we sing is the tre- is the trellis that the vine of our wor- of our- Yes ... faith grows on, right? That's true. Like, what the, what the church lex credendi, lex orandi. Like, the church, what the church prays, the church believes. What the church sings, the church believes. So all of that to say, like, the, the importance of congregational singing can't be under-emphasized, and it's... I, I mean, I don't know that I would I don't know that most theologists say technically s- like, congregational singing is an element of worship, but praising the Lord through song certainly is. Yes. It's, it's evidence. Um, and, and so I think that's definitely something that the church has lost in general. Um, and I know there are churches... I- it's funny, when Ashley and I were between churches, uh, very briefly after, um, our previous church closed down, um, we went to a local sort of, like, high, high, uh, production, seeker-sensitive church, very Steven Furtick-esque, and we only lasted, like, 10 minutes in this, in this service. We went in and the production value was great, and the music sounded great, but we couldn't hear ourselves, we couldn't sing- Right ... and it was very performative, and we just left. We were only there for a few minutes, and we left. And I think that's something we've lost as we've sort of migrated worship to almost, like, a professional class. So yeah, bring it back to the pews. Bring it back to your- Bring it back ... bring it back to your house, bring it back to your kid's bedroom when you're tucking them in. Everywhere. Bring it back to the car on the way to work, in the bus. Right. Like, just let's everywhere we go, let's sing and worship the Lord. [00:30:30] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's right.  [00:30:31] Train Your Voice [00:30:31] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, so as a final thing, let me compound your hot take and say that I agree with you, that I... And I think professionals would as well, and I'm gonna stand on a resource that I'm gonna recommend to everybody here in a second, that in fact the Getty say, "If you can speak, you can sing." And there are a f- a few conditions that would prevent you from doing that, of course. And even there, they wanna explore opportunities for you, for instance, signing, for instance, to ensure that you can participate in worship. Uh, the hot take is I do think that because the instrument that God has given us in the vocal cords is exactly that, that it can be trained, and that actually most people can sing. And if you're serious about that, if you think, "You know what? I'd like to be able to do that. How can I explore that?" Here's a book for you. It's called Set Your Voice Free by Roger Love. The full title is How to Get the Singing or Speaking Voice You Want. Roger Love is, like, this amazing behind-the-scenes vocal coach. He has coached, like, a ton of really talented recording artists, and this is his very contention in the book, is that everybody can sing. It's really about how much or little work you wanna put into it. And in fact, this book comes with, like, these exercises that you can listen to and then record yourself. And then he, from a distance basically, can give you some pointers based on allowing you to kinda evaluate what you hear in your own recording back. So if you really are the kind of person that's like, "Listen, I, I dare you. I cannot sing," I would challenge you, I would double dog dare you to get this book, Set Your Voice Free, and if you're really serious about wanting to try and see if it can make a difference, I, I think it can. And I've, I myself have enjoyed this book, gone back to it many times, use it in my own work and practice because I found it to be helpful. So there you go. Sing, sing, and sing again.  [00:32:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:07] Singing Apps and Practice [00:32:07] Tony Arsenal: And if you're not a reader, first of all, why are you listening to the podcast? But second of all, if for some reason you're not a reader I'm, I'm joking. I'm sure there are people that are listening to the podcast who are not readers. That was, like, a super smug thing to say. How dare you. I'm sorry about that. How dare you. Um, if for some reason you don't wanna read that book or you're not a reader, um, y- you can do something as simple as looking up Yousician on your Yousician, Y-O-U- Yeah ... S-I, like the word musician, but U instead of, like, Y-O-U instead of, uh, musician. Um, there are plenty of apps out there. I just, I mention Yousician just because I've used that on, like, a free trial basis with some guitar teaching, and it's a reputable source. They also have a vocal module. So, like, if you wanna learn to sing, there are plenty of resources out there who can help you train your voice. A- and it- Again, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a vocal coach, I'm not a professional singer. I'm not even that great of a singer, and I, I probably could be a better singer if I wanted to devote the time to it. Um, it doesn't take much to, to be able- Right ... to become a competent singer. Um, I think most of us, you pick up one s- just like I learned guitar, you pick one or two songs that you really like and you wanna learn, and you learn to sing those songs, and then those skills will develop over time. So enough about that, Jesse. We've got, speaking of talents- ... we've got some talents to talk about. There it is. Boom, bazinga. Baza-bazom. I'm  [00:33:27] Jesse Schwamb: back. There it is. Yeah, so- I was excited  [00:33:31] Tony Arsenal: about that one ...  [00:33:32] Jesse Schwamb: that, that was really good. And, and we should just h- honor everyone. That's it.  [00:33:37] Tony Arsenal: That's it. Tip your waiters and waitresses, folks. It  [00:33:39] Jesse Schwamb: was so good. We're here all week.  [00:33:41] Parable Context Setup [00:33:41] Jesse Schwamb: So we're in Matthew 25, uh, verses 14 through 28, and this is at least gonna be a two-parter for us. This goes by the name you might be familiar of, which is The Parable of the Talents. But before we get to it, just a quick reminder that we've been speaking about this parable, not like in a special way, but hopefully in the more contextual sense. So this is the second of three eschatological parables in Matthew 25. So the first was The 10 Virgins, which we went through. We're in The Talents, and then we're coming up to everybody's favorite, The Sheep and the Goats. All three are part of this Olivet Discourse, which is, of course, Jesus' final teaching block before his Passion. And I think it h- behooves us so that we do not get distracted from, like, the center of gravity of this thing, that this is delivered in response to the disciples' question about the sign of his coming and the age to come. Because I've heard so many, like, little talks, maybe homilies is more the right word, on this particular parable that lack gravity. So little gravity that basically NASA could train their astronauts in it. So we wanna stay away from that and I think get into, like, the, the proper context. So Tony, do you have it in front of you by any chance? And would  [00:34:50] Tony Arsenal: you- I do. I do, yeah. Yeah. Read it for us? I'll read it here.  [00:34:52] Reading the Parable [00:34:52] Tony Arsenal: So this is, uh, starting in, uh, Matthew 25 verse 14, and I'm gonna read down through, uh, the end of verse 30 here. So it, it reads here, "For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted them, entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. Now after a long time, the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. And he who had received the five talents came forward bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me five talents. Here I have made five talents more.' His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little. I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, "Master, you delivered to me two talents. Here I have made two talents more." His master said to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little. I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master." He also who had received one talent came forward, saying, "Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed. So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours." But his master answered him, "You wicked and slothful servant. You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming, I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him who gave it, who give it to him who has 10 talents. For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. For, uh, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness in that place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  [00:36:56] Watchfulness and Stewardship [00:36:56] Jesse Schwamb: So it starts with that amazing connective, which we really spoke about in the last episode, in verse four- 14, starting with four. So it's tying, like we said, this parable directly to verse 13, which we know is in the, the parable of the ten virgins. But it's this idea of watchfulness. "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." So th- I think this is the point we really drove last time, that we really felt highly convicted about, that this parable is not like a detached economic lesson, but it's really like an expedition, exposition, not expedition- ... of what watchful discipleship actually looks like during the interval of the master's absence. Like, that's the whole setup here. So it's starting with this idea of like the master goes away, but here we have these slaves or these servants who are entrusted. And to me, again, that's like such a linchpin in this whole thing, 'cause it's, it's carrying the sense that of course, like, he's handing over stewardship. It's a deposit held on another's behal- I love this parable because it has some banking language in it. It's, it's a deposit held on another's behalf, and that's like the key covenant concept of the entire thing. Ownership remains with the master. The servants are stewards. They're not proprietors. And that language, I think, really anticipates, like, the entire New Testament theology of stewardship, which is developed by Paul. So like when Paul writes in 1 Corinthians, "This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful." So like all of that, that's like just one verse for me. Like, that's an incredible setup.  [00:38:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:38:28] Common Misreadings [00:38:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and you know, I think it bears saying, too, um, I wanna be careful how I say this because I don't wanna impugn, uh, poor motives or anything like that on, on the, the people that I'm about to speak to. And I say this a little bit tongue in cheek, but also I say this as someone who used to be deeply involved in youth ministry. There's kind of like a, a youth ministry, um- international version of the Bible, I guess, if you wanna put it that way, where, like, there are certain, certain passages and parables that s- for some reason seem really prone to misapplication- Sure in, in some context. And I would say, like, youth ministry is the one I have in mind. Like, um, one of them is, like, in Matthew 18 where it's like, "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them." Like, that's a, that's a statement about God's, God's presence in the judgment of the church and excommunicating an un- like, a, an unrepentant, uh, person who identifies with Christ. And, and ironically here, maybe not ironically, but, like, casting them into the outer darkness of excommunication, which is representative of casting them out into the actual inner darkness of damnation. Right. Like, th- there's a, there's a misapplication of that, that like, well, you know, like, if only a couple people came to youth group tonight, like, it's still worth meeting because where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them. Um, this, this parable has a very similar kind of misapplication that is maybe a, a little bit less of a misapplication. Like, I think there is something to say in this parable about the fact that God entrusts us with abilities, talents, treasure, t- our time. Like, He's entrusted us with resources, and He does expect us to use those resources, uh, in a way that is honoring to Him and beneficial for the, for the gospel and for the kingdom. Um, that's true in a broad sense, but I don't think actually that this is what that... But, like, that's not what this passage- Mm ... is teaching. Right. I think I, I kinda joked last time, but, like, I've heard more than one sermon that draws the parallel between the word talent here and our talents in terms of, like, our spiritual gifts or our ability to play guitar or, like, to bounce a basketball and, like, thr- like, throw a free throw. Like, that's not the kinda talent we're talking about here. So I wanna, I wanna sorta, like, point that out just to sort of exclude that from the conversation. Yes, God gifts His people, and He expects His people to use those gifts for His glory and for their own benefit. Um, but that's not what this parable is talking about. This is a parable about the fact that God has entrusted the kingdom of heaven on Earth to His people.  [00:41:08] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:41:08] Tony Arsenal: And He expects His people to make use of that in a way that expands the kingdom and also in a way that does not... And this is, this is, I actually think, the main point of the parable. In a way that properly understands the nature of the king. The, the punchline or the main point of the parable here, it, just to sort of, like, I don't know, give away the ending or, like, unbury the lead, I don't know, whatever that is. The point of this parable- It's not that, like, it's a really good thing to double what God has resourced you with. The point of the parable, the reason that, just like the, um, just like it wasn't the virgins falling asleep in the last parable that was the problem because everybody fell asleep, in this instance, uh, the amount of money or the amount of return on investment that the servants produce is not the point of the parable. That's not the real difference between them. The real difference is that the former servants understood that their master had trusted them with a task and expected something of them, and the, the unfaithful, wicked, lazy servant had a total misunderstanding of who the master was- Right ... and therefore what his role as the master's servant was. That's the point of this parable, and I think, this is the last thing I'll say before I, I, I take a breath here. There's a lot of people that would look at this parable and might read some sort of works righteousness or, um, and this is more understandable and I think has a place within the Reformed tradition, although I don't necessarily hold this view. But would look at this as sort of like a theology which would, would argue that we receive some sort of enhanced rewards in heaven based on our faithfulness. There's plenty of good, faithful Reformed Bible teachers that would hold that position. I actually think whether or not that's true, this is still also not what this passage is getting at. [00:43:00] Jesse Schwamb: I, I totally agree with you there.  [00:43:02] Talents as Huge Wealth [00:43:02] Jesse Schwamb: I, I think one of the reasons that we know that is because we can look at some of these details and let the details speak to us about the magnitude in their representation, why they're given. So of course, whenever the scripture gives us detail, especially in a context like a parable, it can be helpful of cour- of course not to overanalyze them, but to respect their place in the context of the story, and that's why verse 15 I think is so important. So to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability, then he went away. Now, this, this varies slightly, but there's a lot of, I think, very common historicity here that points us to understanding, like, the talents as a unit of monetary weight, and there is some discrepancy about its exact weight. But what we can say for sure is this: that we're talking about, as I teased at the beginning, a huge sum of money. So in other words, like, this is a gift from God himself. It's a divine gift. Yeah. It's something that's not earned. It's something that's given and something that's entrusted. So in the first-century Roman world, a talent was roughly equivalent to, like, 6,000 denarii, depending on who you talk to, which would mean that a single talent represented approximately, like, 20 years on average of a laborer's wages. So the sums then here we're talking about are staggering even at the lowest one. So the five-talent servant is receiving essentially approximately equivalent of a century's wages, and the one-talent servant is receiving 20 years' worth. There's no such thing as a small gift in Christ's economy, I think is the point here, and even the least endowment is immense beyond our reckoning. Yeah. So the distribution also is deliberately unequal. It's five, one, two, and the text doesn't offer any apology for this inequality. The master distributes to each according to his ability, which as I say that, I realize that could probably be its own episode, that we could talk about what that even means. Yeah. But he is matching and entrusting to capacity, and that's not arbitrary. Of course, that's wise and personal, and even the Greek here for this idea of capacity or power suggests the master knows his servants intimately and calibrates the stewardship accordingly. But nonetheless, it proves the point you're making here, which is not just about, like, well, do you have some kind of innate ability that's above average that God has endowed you with here? That's not even what we're talking about. Again, the whole point of this is to answer the question eschatologically about what the end means and when the time is coming and what good discipleship looks like. And so in that way, we understand then these talents to be these divinely appointed and massively generous gifts of God, essentially, like you said, the stewarding of the gospel in the story of salvation itself unto his people, and then to make something of that, so to speak, by the power of the Holy Spirit that earns a return for the kingdom, that is all empowered by God, that is under the volition of the person, uh, the Christian who says, "As a disciple, it is my responsibility to steward these gifts." That is really what we're after. So we do kind of get in this place where when you take this and say, "Well, what are you doing with," let's say- your home, if you have a nice home, are you being hospitable enough? If you have, let's say, a good singing voice by talent, are you using that to make sure that you're on the, quote-unquote, "praise and worship team," is not, like, entirely wrong, but it's not right either- Yeah to use this passage- Yeah ... for that purpose. There's a bigger theme here. There is, there's a much stronger and widescale framework that God is drawing us to and examine, and it's about the stewardship of the church itself.  [00:46:30] Tony Arsenal: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  [00:46:31] The Foolish Servant Exposed [00:46:31] Tony Arsenal: That's really key, and this is what struck me as, as you were speaking about that, is like we see in so many of the kinda like, uh, like the chump in the parable. Like, there's- Yeah ... a lot of these parables have like a chump- Right ... where like you're looking at and you're like, nothing about what you've decided to do makes any sense. We're talking about people who've been given, in the first case, 100 years worth of, worth of wages. Right. Right? Any one of these people, and again, we're talking about a timeframe where, like, you could just take that money and run and, like, nobody's gonna find you. There's no digital trail on any of this, right? If I stole, if I stole 100 years worth of labor from my manager or from my, my employer, they would find me, right? That's not the situation we're talking about. So even the chump who decided, "I'm not gonna do anything with this," he could've just take- taken off with the money and had 20 years worth of labor. Right. Just 20 years worth of wages. Right. This is a, this is a sum of money that makes all f- all three of these servants unimaginably wealthy instantly, right? The point of this is, in part, that the final servant has no idea the amazing blessing and responsibility that he's been given. And again, I come back to this. It's not because he is dumb or because he is, um, somehow less competent in a strict sense, right? It, it's so funny to me, like, we also gloss over the fact that, like, the guy who has five talents, he's got 100 years worth of money, 100 years worth of wages. Right. And he just goes and gets 100 more. Like- Right he just goes and trades and- Right ... comes up with 100 years worth of wages that he brings back. Like, that's, in itself is, like, phenomenally, amazingly outrageous. We ran into this too with the, um, the parable of the unmerciful servant, right? We've, we've got one guy who's got this unimaginable debt, like, like, thousands of years worth of, uh, worth of wages that he could never make up, and he thinks he's gonna somehow come up with it if you just give him enough time. It's kind of like the opposite here. This guy's got this unimaginable amount of instant wealth, and he just buries it in the ground. First of all, how much... We're also talking about an era where money was a physical, entirely physical.  [00:48:53] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:48:53] Tony Arsenal: There were no, there were no digital banks. Like- No zeros and ones most of our money exists as ones and zeros in a computer program right now. Right. Like, in reality, like- Right ... my money doesn't exist. We don't have, like, a physical gold standard anymore in America. Jesse could probably s- I'm probably making dumb things up right now. No, that's that's- Like, it used- Right on to be that, like, every dollar that the United States government printed had, like, a piece of gold sitting at Fort Knox- Yes ... uh, like backing it up, but we just don't have that anymore. Most of the money that exists in our system is entirely imaginary. It's an entirely, like, made-up digital currency way before, like, Bitcoin was a thing. That's not the case in this timeframe. This dude who buried 20 years worth of money in the ground, that's a significant amount of labor in and of itself- Right ... to even be able to do that. So we're not talking about, like... And I think this is the thing we miss when we, when we read the word talents, and one, when we obscure it and we, like, we misappropriate the word talent to mean, like, abilities, 'cause it, that's a convenient, like, illustration tool. We're talking about a huge sum of probably gold or silver that this dude just buries in the ground, and then, like, digs it up when the master comes back.  [00:50:01] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:50:01] Tony Arsenal: And I think, like- When we don't realize how much money this is, we miss the force of the master's like, "You stupid, dumb, wicked, slothful servant." Like, if you had even taken this money to the bank and done the least imaginable- Yes ... effort. Exactly. Like, if you had done anything at all, like how mu- how difficult, granted more difficult back in this age than it is now, but like if you had even done something as simple requiring as little labor as possible and just brought this to the bank and let them collect interest on it, we'd still be talking about a huge return. [00:50:35] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:50:36] Tony Arsenal: And he doesn't even do that, and that's, that's the point. There's the people who do, and they gloss over this. The parable totally glosses over the amazing effort and work that it must have taken to take 100 years worth of la- of wages and turn it into 200 years worth of wages. Right. Or to take 40 years worth of wages and turn it into 80 years worth of wages. That's an amazing, probably almost miraculous return on, on investment. Whatever they did is amazing, and the parable's like, "Yeah, they did that." They just took it to the traders and they brought back five more talents. Like, it's nothing. And then this idiot, and I say idiot in like the most like, like exegetically sound, idios, like, like foolish idiot person. [00:51:20] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:51:20] Tony Arsenal: This idiot just buries it in the ground and doesn't even bother to bring it to the bank where he's gonna get some return on it. This is the picture of the fool who does not make use of the means of salvation. This is the picture of the fool who refuses to receive Christ as savior, who refuses to make use of the benefit and blessing of salvation that is available to all who will trust in Christ and turn to him. This is the same picture as the idiot virgins who didn't buy enough oil and just fell asleep when they knew that the bridegroom was coming, right? Right. It's not that they fell asleep, it's that they didn't do the most obvious, simple,

We watched.  We judged.  We discussed.   Listen in as Janette and MM give their opinions and thoughts on the Summer House Season 10 reunion - without the aide of a beta blocker. Let's be honest, pretty sure if West and Amanda would just take our advice, all would be right with the world.    Chat highlights: Who returns to the house?  Will the relationship last? When does Sally join?  Can someone give Jesse a hug?    While their season may be over - ChickChat summer is just beginning!

David King from Gulf Wind Technology returns to discuss serial uptower blade repairs, passive load shedding, and data-driven testing. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall : David, welcome back to the program.  David King: Yeah, I’m so glad to be here. A lot’s happened since the last time I was on, so, uh, this is gonna be great.  Allen Hall : It’s been about a year. Mm-hmm. And last year we were at OM&S in Nashville, and you were talking about root fusion, and this is the insert fix uptower for the blade inserts, right? So we’re having a lot of blade bolt issues, and the inserts are starting to pull out or become loose, and the blades are moving around. A lot of our operators in the States are trying to solve that problem, and they don’t wanna remove the blades and bring anything down tower. They would like to fix it uptower. That’s where your solution came in. How’s that going?  David King: Yeah, so I mean, it, it’s really been a five-year journey for us. I mean, we’ve been doing this- I remember that, yeah … for a [00:01:00] very long time. You know, it started like any process does, with a problem statement. Sure. And we’ve been working through from problem statement, you know, going through process development, going through structural development, going through pilots. Uh, we did a, a huge pilot deployments about three years ago, where those were being monitored. Um, we’re now in a position where we’re in serial deployment, and that’s what’s really exciting. You know, we’re doing about 200 blades a year, uh, of, of serial deployment. We’ve, we’ve done that now, uh, we’re going into our second year of that. Nice. So we’re extremely excited by that. That comes with its own sets of challenges as you scale up. How do you maintain quality? We even touched a little bit on a few of these things last year. Um, but yeah, we’re really excited to be doing that. Uh, we’re trying to keep it, you know, again, process-driven. How do you simplify a process that allows you to scale up appropriately, train people appropriately? A- a- and that’s what we’re really excited about this year, is being able to bring this, uh, so that we’re not, um, you know, basically supply constrained, ’cause there is a lot of demand for this, and still able to maintain a very high level of, of quality as we, [00:02:00] we scale up. Allen Hall : Yeah, and that’s the key to all sort of repairs in the wind industry. You like to do it once and be done with the life of the turbine. Now, so you’re going uptower. You’re drilling some holes up along the blade, injecting those with a resin system, curing it, basically reinforcing what is already there That all makes sense to me. Engineering-wise, that makes sense to me. But a- again, it goes back to the technicians and the training and the deployment of it. Are you starting to train technicians, bring them in, show them how to use the, use the machines and, and get them out in the field so they are ready to go? It, it… ‘Cause it seems like you’re at that threshold now. David King: No, absolutely. So we, we believe in people first, right? Yeah. People at the end of the day make things happen. And so, you know, the best ways to do that is give people the right tools to be successful, and where that comes from is training. That’s a huge part of it. We have a, a certified training program that we run. Uh, it started out as an internal program we were running. It basically has five levels to it. Uh, we’ve now extended that to, uh, enabling, uh, you know, basically [00:03:00] preferred partners to be able to take part in that training, uh, to be able to utilize modular kits, pumps and equipment, to be able to, you know, go out and meet that demand that’s out there, but do so in a way that’s, uh, controlled. Yeah. And so really that comes back to that certified training program. And really, you know, level one is about a lot of your basic safety, procedural base type, uh, you know, making sure people are competent, uh, they’re not gonna get themselves hurt. Right. They’ve got the right personality traits about focus, uh, you know, detail focus and things like that. Yeah. Uh, level two to that program is, is really about, um, basically getting people to a stage in which they can be a, uh, team member. Uh, they’re able to be on a team and contribute to that team in an effective manner, be in the field.  Allen Hall : That’s really important. A lot of-  David King: Absolutely …  Allen Hall : companies miss that aspect of being a team member instead of an individual. Yeah, you have to work with other people. Yeah. It’s, it’s critical.  David King: It’s massively important. Personalities clash. You’ve got to be able to work through that sort of thing. And so that level one to level two is really kind of taking your green horn hat off and putting, “Okay, I, I, I can be on this team and I’m, I’m a, a contributing [00:04:00] member.” And then at level three, that’s your team leads. Those are people that are leading teams. They’re leaders. They’re up and coming. They’ve got a career path, career trajectory. Level four is our mentors. That’s the people that are going out there and that are basically qualified to now actually mentor other people in the field. Allen Hall : Yeah.  David King: And then your level five is train the trainer. How do you grow more trainers so that you’re not constrained on that training factor? And that, that’s kind of how we, we typically run training.  Allen Hall : Uh, and Gulf Wind has the ability to do that. I mean, I’ve been to your facilities, they’re impressive, and that’s one of the limitations for a lot of companies. They don’t have the facilities to train people, and they don’t have the resources you do. That opens up a lot of opportunities. Obviously, you’re in the composite repair business. You have crews out fixing wind turbine blades. Some of the more complex ones is what I hear. I mean, I hear it secondarily, but I assume that’s what’s happening. What are, are the areas that you get called in on to do composite repairs?  David King: We, we really do anything that stops somebody else. Okay. So we wanna be there when there’s a problem where you’re like, “I don’t know where to go next. Uh, this is a big [00:05:00] problem. We’re unsure. Maybe there’s a new technology at play. Maybe it’s, uh, a carbon spar cap. Maybe it’s something, uh…” You know, obviously the root stuff that’s very complicated. Sure. And, uh, it’s just gonna require a little bit more engineering. It’s gonna require a little bit more rigor, and that- that’s where we say, look, we, we can, whether it means testing something, verifying something, training somebody on a process, developing a process- Yeah or just doing something complicated, that’s where we excel.  Allen Hall : Well, that- that’s what I hear from the road is, uh, Gulf Winds here and I think, “Uh-oh. You must have a really serious problem because you’re calling in the experts to do the, the difficult things.” Carbon pultrusions, carbon fabric in, in blades today is such a massive problem because it’s not, it’s not fiberglass. It’s just a lot more to deal with, and some of the loading issues we’re finding and, boy, it’s just all over the place. They need Gulf Winds Technology to, to come on site to give them a hand. Now, a- as part of the growth of the business, and you guys have been growing. Every year I, I see they’re just… it’s just a little bit bigger, a little more [00:06:00] people. I walked on LinkedIn and hiring some engineers and some people to work over the summertime. That’s all great. What’s the structure look like now? How are you trying to organize yourself as a business?  David King: Yeah, so we really break down into three different structures. We have our service division, and that’s, um, putting people out there to solve problems in the field. As simple as it gets, right? It’s like you’ve got a problem, we’ve got the right people with the right solutions, and they’re gonna go deliver, uh, a result. Um, and then we’ve got an engineering division. That’s about developing problems. It also has a lot to do with IP. You know, things like root fusion, that’s a pat- protected technology. Sure. All of our technology, we do a lot of investments in, in, you know, patent protection and IP work, and so that sits inside that engineering division. Uh, it’s how we, we have the smarts of the company kinda sat in there. Uh, it also is what allows us to really get into some of these, uh, kinda juicy problem statements that are a little bit prickly maybe. Uh, and we love getting into those and solving them. Yeah. And then the third and final thing is the composite side of things, and that’s the, the manufacturing. That’s that 30,000 square [00:07:00] foot composite manufacturing facility where we wanna be the best in vacuum infusion. We wanna be the best in prepreg, the best in pultrusions, complex assemblies, and be trying to de- uh, just deliver really high-quality composites to the industry. Allen Hall : Yeah, and you have the equipment to do a lot of testing. And I think a, a lot of operators don’t realize what you have And the knowledge that’s sitting there, when I run into operators across the country that have complicated issues, particularly if they have carbon, I mean, oh my gosh, you, you need to be calling experts here. And if they have issues they haven’t really sussed out, they don’t know, they don’t understand the engineering that went into that blade, they need to be talking to you guys about Why is this blade designed the way it is? How should I approach this? Do I need to be turning my turbines off until I figure out a solution? A lot of times there’s not a lot of resources there because the, the designs are more complex than ever. But on the, on the same hand, I would say they’re not doing a lot of testing of their own materials. [00:08:00] David King: Yeah, and there’s a huge space for that. And which is crazy. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s definitely a gap. It is. And we see it as a gap that needs to be filled. Yes. And so that’s where, you know, we, we say you’ve gotta give the engineers the tools to be successful. Sure. And so what are those tools? You know, that could be anything from what does an aerodynamicist need? They might need a metrology scanner. Right. So we do 70 million plus point scans of full blades. We’ve done now a full blade scan and, uh, I think we did it in about an hour, which was a, a new record of how quickly you could get 70 million points on a blade. Wow. And then that allowed- Uptower  Allen Hall : or  David King: downtower? It was downtower. Okay. Okay. It was outside in the field, but it was downtower. Okay. It’s still impressive. So that was a little, little, little bit easier than uptower. Sure. Maybe that’s next. Um- Yeah. But, um, no, and then so what can you do with that? Well, then you can go, uh, really analyze, you know, the performance of that blade. Maybe you can go do something in a wind tunnel with it. So coming back to that toolkit- Yep … an aerodynamicist needs a wind tunnel. We have aerodynamicists, so we have a wind tunnel. Then going on to, like, a structural engineer. What does a structural engineer need? Well, they need their FE tools. They need some good first principle approaches to, to structures. But they also need test equipment. Right. They need to be [00:09:00] able to develop and characterize materials both in static and fatigue. And so we’ve made a lot of investment in those sort of test equipment, uh, so that we can, we can put numbers to things. You know, I think the wind industry needs more data. Less speculation and more data-driven decisions, and the, where that starts is really building up that test base. And we, we believe in this thing called the testing pyramid, and what it is is, like, you’ve gotta characterize the material. That’s where you’re gonna have thousands of samples. Right. That’s your tensile, double lap shear testing, all the basics. Then you do your subcomponents. Add some geometry into that, that- Add some shape. Exactly. Maybe that’s hundreds of samples. And then you’re gonna go on top of that to, like, your full component. And look, we don’t have a blade test stand yet, but- Right … that’s kind of that, that space. And then the final top of that pyramid is go do it in the field, get results- Run it … and then run that back into your design cycles. And I think the more we can do that as an industry, the more successful we’re gonna be as an industry.  Allen Hall : Yeah, and I think a lot of operators don’t think they have to participate in that, and they’re sadly mistaken. And the fact that the industry has grown as fast as it has means [00:10:00] there’s some holes in some of the engineering that maybe they didn’t consider the, the site assessment properly or they didn’t understand some of the manufacturing variability. Now you own this product, you’re gonna have to do some of the homework that maybe the OEM should have done. It’s your site. You own it. And a lot of times I think, uh, as an owner/operator, they don’t realize there’s resources. Like, okay, well maybe do some mechanical testing. Maybe the repairs I had last summer aren’t working out the way that I think. Maybe I need to look at some materials  David King: and see if- And we want you to own your data. Well, that’s exactly it, right? That’s really what it comes down to is like you wanna own the data, know your blades, know your products, whether it’s, you know… I know you’re very, uh, you know, uh, specialized in lighting, really know your stuff. Everybody’s gotta take that same approach. Know your stuff- You need to know it … or go find the experts that know it- Right … and work with them. Yeah.  Allen Hall : Well, at, at this point in the industry’s growth, you realize who’s all percolated towards the top, right? You, you, you see the companies like Goldwind that have the expertise in-house and, and have established themselves as a [00:11:00] knowledge center, as a resource for the US and globally, and there’s only a couple of those spread around the world in that- We as an industry need to be utilizing you more to help us solve problems. Because if I don’t tell Gulf Wind what’s going on, Gulf Wind can’t help come to a solution.  David King: And we find that really, like, just the more you know, you start finding all sorts of new opportunities. Yeah. ‘Cause we almost learn what you don’t know, in a way. You kind of realize that, like, there’s so much more out there. Yeah. And that’s where it gets really exciting. That’s where it’s like you can get these novel solutions, people who take creative approaches. Um, and, and I really think that’s what’s gonna take this industry forward, especially now when, you know, there are some headwinds for wind. And all that means is we’ve gotta get sharper, and we’ve gotta be, uh, more agile. And I think it’s actually almost times like this that create some of the best, uh, behaviors in an industry to, uh, take it forward into the future really.  Allen Hall : Yeah. Wind’s not gonna go anywhere, but it’s being stressed a little bit. And in those stress points, we need to take the time to reflect and to make the industry [00:12:00] stronger. But in order to do that, we need to be relying upon the sources that we have. There are global sources. There are so many resources to touch into. I think you guys are, are doing amazing things. Obviously, being down in your facility, seeing the wind tunnel, just blown away by that. Seeing the mechanical testing, seeing the, the 3D printing of air foils and all that work you’re doing, plus the ability to scan blades, do large scale studies. I remember one was on CMS at the time, thinking, “All right. Somebody’s, somebody’s actually doing the right thing. There’s a study happening so we can understand what’s happening in CMS.” Like, those things need to happen as an industry to grow.  David King: Oh, absolutely. And I know you and I were at WOMA- Yes … quite recently. Yeah. And we heard about that LEP study. Yes. And what a prime example- … of people going out there, getting real life data. Yes. And then, uh, making it accessible so that people can make smart decisions, and again, drive the cost of energy down and make wind successful. It’s, it’s amazing.  Allen Hall : It, uh- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the transfer of knowledge is the key, right? And you guys are involved [00:13:00] in looking at some, what LEP will do to improve a blade, but also what leading edge damage will do to erode performance. Those are some of the things that a lot of operators don’t understand. Like, is that blade being in that damaged form even affecting my AEP? It depends on the turbine, I think, a lot of times. But you better be asking the question at least. Talk to somebody who knows.  David King: Yeah. ‘Cause it, it’s really interesting. I mean, you know, I think it so much drives back to that business case for the operator, and they all have their own approaches. And, and really- Yeah you know, most people are repairing LEP when it becomes structural. That’s the- That’s right … that’s the predominant approach. And, you know, I understand that approach very… You know, I, I get it from an operator’s point of view. Um, but yeah, there’s definitely, uh, other things you could do to try and make a, a data-based business decision. Um- Sure.  Allen Hall : Sure. Now, what are some of the cool new things that Gulf Wind is working on, that you haven’t announced to the world yet, but you’d like to announce? I know you’ve been working on things. I’ve seen all the white papers being published. There’s some things- Back behind the scenes, what’s new?  David King: Yeah. I mean, so, you know, you take something like Roof [00:14:00] Fusion, right? Right. Which is a long process to develop. So we, knowing that everything that, uh, you have as an idea is gonna take almost maybe three, four, five years to actually bring to market- Sure … we’re always starting on this constant cycle of development. Right. And so the things- You know  Allen Hall : it’s gonna be five years. David King: Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, I mean, it’s like the patents on this stuff take three, four, five years to work out. Yeah. And so it- it’s a very important part of the entire process. Yeah. But to, to answer your question, we do have some exciting things both in the aero side, uh, side of the world. Uh, we have been doing a lot of development work around, uh, basically, uh, passive load shedding, so the ability for a turbine, or actually any structure, to be able to react to the wind in a passive manner. Uh, so you don’t need any sort of mechanicals. You don’t need anything, uh, that’s going to break in the field, and the structure itself is able to actually react to the load that’s coming onto it and change its aerodynamic, uh, profile and change its load that it’s experiencing. So you get these… Uh, that’s a very interesting new technology. Yes. Uh, it’s something that we’ve been working on for about three or four years now. It’s now, uh, [00:15:00] getting demonstrated, uh, which we’re very excited about. Uh, we also have some technologies, uh, around new connection types between metal and composites. So this is, uh, something that’s, uh, probably got a lot of, um, application in aerospace, but I think it’s also gonna find its way into wind. And this is just a new way of really trying to fix some of the problematic joints that we’ve been dealing with now for the last few years, but looking forward, not looking backward. Yeah. Right. Sure. Not being retroactive. Right. But how do we do that next generation of roof pushing design, for example? And we’ve got a really exciting method for that, that, uh, is been tested now. We have test results for it, and they look extremely good. Uh, we also are making some major CapEx investments this year into- Sure … new manufacturing equipment. So we have, um, some… I, I would say some, some pretty advanced, um, automation we’re trying to bring to composite manufacturing- Okay … around pre-preg carbon fibers and things like that, which is gonna be very, very exciting I think. Uh, I hope it finds its way into the wind industry. It’ll probably start in other industries. Sure. Maybe kind of this, uh, [00:16:00] subsea, you know, and, uh, and air, uh, space first- Sure … you know, around UAVs, ROVs- Sure … that sort of thing. But I think it’s also gonna have applications in wind, and we’re really, really excited about that. Well,  Allen Hall : that’s good because it, it does seem like wind is downstream of a lot of aerospace things ’cause it does, definitely costs money to develop those, and aerospace is a place where that can happen. However- If you work out all the kinks and you solve all the manufacturing issues, it is directly applicable to wind. David King: And it’s massive volume. The beautiful thing about wind is that the volume, when you get something right and you do it right, you get to deploy technology. Yeah. Yes. You, you get to take it off the shelf- Right … and put it in the world and make it happen, which is, there’s nothing more exciting as an engineer. Allen Hall : Well, I mean, in, in terms of blade manufacturing, how many times have we talked about automating that so we have less things like wrinkles and some ply issues, overlaps, those kind of things where automation would help, but we just haven’t really refined it enough to i- implement it at a large scale in a blade factory. David King: Exactly. And it’s always usually too bespoke, you know? It is. It’s like you solve the problem for the, the 40-meter blade, and now- Right … there’s a [00:17:00] 45-meter blade, and we need all new CapEx. Right. And then it doesn’t, uh, doesn’t scale well.  Allen Hall : That doesn’t scale at all. No. Right. So that’s why they haven’t done it, is because they know the next generation of blade is coming. It’s another 10 meters longer, and that’s not gonna fit in this building, and doesn’t make sense- We’re in trouble … to buy the equipment.  David King: Yeah, exactly.  Allen Hall : Right. So it, it, it’s a- Yeah … it’s a constant evolving industry. Now, I, I had looked at your load shedding patent application or patent. Maybe it came out as a patent. David King: Yep.  Allen Hall : Mm-hmm. Okay. I wanna understand that a little bit since I’m here talking to you now. The load shedding piece was because, uh, you’re in Louisiana, that’s where hurricanes- Come up … every once in a while, if people haven’t read the papers. But the load shedding technology makes sense because now you can deploy wind turbines in places that you otherwise may not do it because of the risk of typhoons, hurricanes, even tornadoes on some level, some odd wind situations. You wanna explain what that technology is? Yeah.  David King: Really what it’s doing is it’s trying to decouple the, uh, turbine’s ability to protect itself from its requirement to maintain power and maintain [00:18:00] control. So if you have something that relies on electrical hydraulics or anything like that- Yeah … it’s gonna be extremely susceptible to failing, uh, when- Yes there’s a grid outage or when you have a battery that fails or, you know, most airplanes require, like, dual redundancy or triple- Triple … triple redundancy because of that very reason, and we just can’t afford to do that in wind. No. And so the innovation then that gets required is you have to have something that’s passive, something where the structure itself has been designed in a way where the laminate is designed in a way where it’s going to not react progressively like a linear fashion as you apply load, right? It keeps bending and bending and bending. Right, right, right. But it’s gonna have quite a sudden reaction to a very particular load case. And so that’s what we’ve been able to do is-  Allen Hall : Okay …  David King: basically construct that laminate in a way where when it, the right load is applied, in this case, that’s the, the hurricane load or the extreme load- Right we can shed that load, uh, completely by the structure simply reacting to the load, and that’s very exciting for wind. It has a lot of other applications ’cause- Sure it does … basically allowing you to hinge composites. We now can- Right … with [00:19:00] composites almost in an origami fashion, hinge them any way we want, which is really, really exciting. Nice. And we’re excited to bring that now to other areas besides just wind and, and wind will be a key one as well.  Allen Hall : Sure it will. Yeah. Wow, okay. That’s cool. I mean, that’s why I follow Gulf Wind Technology on LinkedIn to see all the cool things that are coming out because, uh, if, if you’re thinking about- What’s new, what’s next. There’s probably three or four places, honestly, in the world that I rely upon, DTE being one, Fraunhofer being another, and then Gulf Wind Technology. Like, okay, let’s… So they tram for it here. I… Let’s, let’s see what’s going on this week. That’s amazing. And I, I know that as you guys get more experience out in the field and people will start to recognize the name, it’s just only gonna grow to something even bigger. So that, that’s fantastic. I know you, you spend a lot of time making  David King: this business go. We’re de- definitely very excited about it. Yeah. But with, with growth comes, you know, a, a discipline. Right. You have to be very disciplined. Yes. And so that’s something, you know, we’ve gotta be very focused on. Yeah. That’s where things like that certified training program are important. Yes. It’s where [00:20:00] how we patent things is very important. Yes. How we, uh, you know, kind of set up company structure is very important. So I know we touched on a few of those subjects today. Yeah. But those are really just about trying to be able to maintain quality as we grow. A- and that’s really important to our customers, it’s important to us, and it’s how we maintain the brand. Allen Hall : We gotta get back down to Louisiana. I’m really curious to see what’s happening inside the buildings and see where you’re at, because, uh, I know there’s great things happening there. And I really appreciate the time. Thank you for coming over to Australia. I thought your, your talks and your, your presentation and being on panels in Australia was really insightful to a lot of Australians, because you’re just bringing a different viewpoint into that marketplace. And, and that’s what Gulf Wind does. So I, I appreciate all that effort. And, uh, yeah, we should connect up this summer. Come down and check out what’s going on.  David King: Absolutely. If you’re willing to brave the heat- Oh, no. … you are always welcome. And our aim is that every time you come to that factory, hopefully it’s like a, a whole new world. We wanna surprise you with something new, because, uh, that’s the only way we can demonstrate progress.  Allen Hall : Oh, that’s a deal.  David King: So.  Allen Hall : Okay, great. Well, thank you,  David King: Dave. Great to see [00:21:00] you. Thanks  Allen Hall : for being on the  David King: podcast. Thank you very much.

MM-kisatori ruotii kerran viikossa MM-kisojen mielenkiintoisimmat tapahtumat sekä puheenaiheet. Mukana myös visaiset alkulämmöt sekä kesän siirtospekulaatiot.Tässä jaksossa isäntänä Pauli Loukola ja mukana vakiojäsenet Samuli Justén sekä Juho Leskinen.* Alkulämmöt (1:21)* Kisaisännät (11:27)* Voittajasuosikit (36:24)* Viikon kuumat (1:00:07)Jakso nauhoitettu to 11.6. Ota yhteyttä: seinakolmannelle@gmail.comSeuraa Instagramissa:https://www.instagram.com/seinakolmannelle/ (@seinakolmannelle)X:ssä:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠x.com/SKolmannelle

Tilastokeskuksen tuoreiden tietojen mukaan pari- ja lähisuhdeväkivaltarikosten uhrimäärä kasvoi viime vuonna viidenneksellä. Miksi väkivaltaa ei saada kuriin, vaikka ongelmasta on puhuttu jo pitkään? Keskustelemassa varapuheenjohtajat Karoliina Partanen (kok.) ja Pinja Perholehto (sd.). Mitä tiedämme suomalaisten työkyvyttömyysdiagnoosien määrästä sekä yleisestä sairastavuudesta? Kelan uusimmasta selvityksestä kertoo erikoistutkija Kati Sarnola. Jalkapallon miesten MM-kisat alkavat tänään. Yhdysvalloissa, Kanadassa ja Meksikossa pelataan seuraavat viisi viikkoa. Ennakkotunnelmista kertoo toimittaja Juri von Bonsdorff Washingtonista. Jalkapallosta rahan ja politiikan pelikenttänä keskustelevat politiikan tutkija Mira Söderman ja urheilutoimittaja, tietokirjailija Tapio Keskitalo. Euroopan keskuspankin odotetaan aloittavan tänään ohjauskoron nostojen sarjan. Mitä se merkitsee asuntovelallisille? Haastattelussa Nordean pääanalyytikko Jan von Gerich. Juontaja Seija Vaaherkumpu. Tuottaja Anna-Maria Haarala. Toimittajat Lotta Lautala, Seppo Kivimäki ja Veera Nikkilä.

Part one of Kiera's conversation with Howard Farran on the Dentaltown podcast. They discuss how many details a dentist should know about their business, what about the COVID-19 pandemic still haunts practices, the AI of dentistry and the human care of patients, hidden gaps draining profitability, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera. And today we are sharing a guest interview I did on another podcast. And it was too valuable not to bring you guys here.   this episode, you're gonna hear this host lead the conversation and then I'll wrap us up at the end. I cannot wait. It was truly one of my most   episodes and I truly hope you enjoy.   The Dental A Team (00:17) It's just a huge honor for me today to bring back Kiera Dent. How are you doing, Kiera? my gosh, Howard. It's so great to be back. I remember my very first podcast with you. I was actually at an office in Alabama and I went like hid in this room because I was starstruck podcasting with you. So to be able to be back on the show with you ⁓ several years later is just fun. I love what you guys are doing. I love Dentaltown. I love your posts. so it's really fun to be back. So thank you. ⁓ the honor is all mine. Just remember Kiera likes Shakira.   And Dent is just her nickname. The full name is Dental Queen Goddess. So thank you. And ⁓ she is the founder and CEO of the Dental A Team, committed to elevating dentists and their teams to their highest level through customized in-office and virtual consulting and training. Her vast experience ranges from the front office to assistant, regional manager, and dental practice owner, giving her a perspective few consultants can claim.   She and her team work with hundreds of dental practices nationwide and confidently say we don't just understand you, we are you. Among her many accomplishments, Ciara has grown a practice from 500,000 to 2.4 million in just nine months with a doctor straight out of dental school. She's coached hundreds of practices, authored numerous articles, and designed a customizable operations manual manual that serves as a roadmap for systems and team success.   Her Dental A Team podcast has amassed nearly 2 million downloads, making it one of the most impactful resources in all of dentistry. Kiera lives every day by her core values. Do the right thing, ownership, passion for excellence, ease, grit, innovator, die, and fun. Her motto says it all. There is always a solution. And my gosh, I just want to tell you the truth. And the reason I was so excited to bring you on. It seems like dentistry has turned into two groups of dentists.   There's all the old farts like me who, you know, we had, you know, we had great practices, great lives, great careers. And then you got these younger dentists that look at us and say, ⁓ man, you graduated in the good old days. You know, you didn't have five hundred thousand dollars of student loans, you didn't have DSOs, Delta hasn't given us a raise in four generations, and and and they're mad at the ADA. I think they're even mad at their mom. I I they're I think so and they're not happy. Do you have any good news?   For these dental graduates with $500,000 of student loans, or did they make the wrong decision and should have become a plumber? I mean, you know, plumbing is always a backup plan if dentistry doesn't work. So I think you're like at least in that realm. Like, you know, there's always options. But I love dentistry and I actually, ⁓ I think we're actually in the best time of dentistry. And I know that yes, there's the good old days. Then Howard, those were great days for you. But I think like, how many options do people have now? We have AI, we have these innovations, and I mean.   Your my example of a student straight out of dental school, we actually had one million. So I actually called her 2.5 because we had $2.5 million. So from student debt to practice loan debt to buying another location, all within a couple of months of us starting the practice. And so I called her 2.5 every time I walked past her. I was like, get that back straight, girl. Like we got 2.5 mil of debt on us. but to be able to grow our practice in nine months was   Absolutely incredible. And I think that that's where dentistry is amazing. There is no cap, there is no ceiling, and you have a way to truly impact and change people's lives. And I'm like, you have DSOs as options. Like there were not the times where you were getting the multiples that you get today. You also have like there are so many avenues that dentistry can afford you. but I think it's a it's a matter of what you choose to focus on, is what you're going to find more of. If you want to sit here and say, ⁓ my gosh, it's awful. We have 500,000 of debt. And I'm like, Yeah, but guess what? My husband had   Not quite the same, but we had several hundreds, thousands of dollars of debt. And he's a pharmacist. And so I understand what it's like to come out of school and have hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt on us. But guess what? He's making, you know, hundred, hundred and fifty. If we're lucky on a good day, we're capped out. It took us forever to pay back our student loans. But as dentistry, you have untapped and uncapped potential. And so for me, you get to change people's lives, you get to give them confidence, you get to help them have better health, and you're able to make people smile like.   I can't think of a better opportunity to be a part of. And I'm not just Pollyanna over here. I coach hundreds and thousands of offices. I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly, and the in between. But I'll tell you, depending upon how you choose to view this, you can either find the good or the bad. And I'd recommend like, let's find the great because it's a gold line of opportunity if you want to see it. What what do you say to dentists who say, Mm-mm, you know, I I really don't want to complain really a bit. I mean, on paper my   My practice looks perfect. I got two hygienists. I do a million dollars. I do all this, but just internally it just feels chaotic and stressful. So it looks like on paper he's doing everything right. But she says, I still feel like chaos and stress. What's what's that about? I think like welcome to being a business owner. I think that there's two sides of success. In the word success, there's literally the word suck. Like there are parts of success that are going to suck. Like that's just how it is, guys.   And so that chaos and internal turmoil, I think I there I have lots of offices where you don't have to be that way. And I think going from like operator doing all the pieces, being stressed out into like a CEO of a business. ⁓ I think sometimes dentists are such gunners doers, they're so hands-on that they have this internal chaos. But there there are paths again that don't have to be that way. But I also think this is part of the game of business that we signed up for. And I think when you get to the level like Howard.   You've seen, I've seen over our career, we've got the gunners and the doers and the like zero to two year business owners. Like it's freaking chaos. It's psycho. Like you're learning these things just like you're back in dental school. But as you mature, you start to realize that the chaos is just part of the game. And the more you're able to learn to weather it, to see it, and to not do all the pieces, elevate your team, get great people, do like hire it out. You can hire, I mean, a practice is doing a million and you got great profitability and overhead.   You can hire a lot of great people to take away a lot of your problems. And so like, let's get some of those things done. And then you actually become happier and you make more money. So that you don't have to sit in that chaos. I think that there's a part of it that will always suck. but there's also a part that can really be the successful part too, that's fulfillment and enjoyment. But you got to make the steps and take the steps to do it rather than just sit and complain about it.   Love it, love it, love it. ⁓ what do you what do you say about the ⁓ the dentist who got out of school, goes and works for a major DSO, say say he's working for Rick Workman, Heartland, and he works there two years, and you know, he you know, he's working for a guy that owns eighteen, nineteen hundred dental offices, but he can't tell you the code for a profit. Can't he'll say, like, you know, are they paying my pay right? Really? You can't check at you. I mean, it it's like   It's like they'll listen to a forty hour lecture on the difference between two different composites, but they did I mean th they worked through two years, they don't know insurance codes, they can't check out a patient, they don't know the software. I mean, I had one guy tell me, ⁓ the only thing you could tell me about the practice manager software is the brand name. He couldn't tell me and then he's asking me, you know, it what which one you know, but anyway, do you think do you think a dentist doesn't need to know all the business details?   Or do you think that's a blind spot and you can't delegate anything till you can do it and master it? I think that there's two types of owners. And I think that there's some that are really great at hiring people that they are great at hiring people, knowing it, listening to podcasts, hiring coaches, training the team, and like having somebody spot check for you. Then there's others that like they've got to know the ins and outs. But I think that like Howard, there's   To me, there's also a middle ground where I think that you can go sit with your biller for one day and just like say, like, walk me through your process. So you have a general idea and an understanding of what they do. Go watch to see how they schedule. ⁓ I think when it comes to billing, I do think the dentists have a very big blind spot. And to me, that is like as a business owner, not to know how your money comes to you. To me, that feels like a pretty big blind spot of like even just understanding that knowledge. And so   If I were to say, I don't think you need to know the ins and outs. I love like I recognize this. I was a business owner of it. I own practices. I worked with hundreds of dentists at Midwestern University's Dental College. Like, I hear what you guys are taught. Plus, I'm a team member on the other side. And so I created a billing course and an office manager course because I just want a dentist to know like, what should I be able to expect? And I think like if you want to just have a general overview so you don't get blindsided, you you can have it. I think you can quickly within like a week.   Know the bulk of like everything you need to know in a practice very simply, very easily. So that way you can delegate. That way you can have it. You're not gonna be perfect. but I think just having a general awareness. And then I love to give doctors just a quick checklist, like once a month, go spot check, go grab an EOB. Even if you don't know what the heck that EOB is, go ask your front office for it, check it. And just the more you learn that language, just like the language of business, I think it doesn't need to be an overnight sensation.   But I do think the more you're aware of it, I don't think you have to do every single role though to be a successful practice owner. And I mean, shoot, if Heartland can do it, I think it's a good example. But I think who are you? And are you a hands-on tactical person? Are you somebody who's really good at hiring people, t trusting other people, getting the checklist and spot checking? I think you can do it either way. But my recommendation is like just like one week, go like sit in every seat of your practice and get a general awareness and educate yourself on the things that you don't know. I'm really big on money, understanding at least how insurance works. And then also how do we like   present cases, what are kind of the flow that way those big zones that really impact your financials, you can you can be aware of. So those courses, those online CE courses, your website is The Dental A Team. The Dental A Team. Now I think the A Team, you need that guy with the Mohawk and all the bling. I mean that's who I am in my like spare time. This hair is just a facade. Like, you know, I hang out as Mr T. Mr T. Mr T, Mr T, yeah.   That's why I was thinking the A Team, but is that on your on your website, the th those courses? Yeah, they are. So we have an online library, it's all C E. We've got downloadable checklists, we've got operations manual. You got it. That's exactly right. And Howard, in real time, I'll have our marketing team actually put together a code. If you guys put in Dentaltown, since you're listening, we'll make sure that you guys get a coupon code for that as well. Well, since it's my compass podcast IRS that you just put Fabio.   you want Fabio? Okay. well in that case. So ⁓ so is I also see you have a ⁓ Summit twenty twenty six is live on Friday, April twenty fourth. Grab your ticket. Where's where's that show gonna be? Is it Reno where you are? You know, that's actually virtual, Howard, and it's one of our like favorite comebacks constantly. And the reason I do it virtual, people have been asking me for years, like, why don't you do it in person, Kiera? And what I found is   Because it's so like again as a team member, I really struggle to get my team ramped up, amped up, and have it be financially affordable. So what I found is if we can have it virtual in your practice with your full team, you guys are able to get this boost and surge of energy and have a good time. So it's for leadership teams, it's for doctors. ⁓ we've been doing it for six years strong and we tend to have hundreds of offices. You get your whole office there, you have a good time.   But yeah, it's virtual and it's C E and it's a great time. ⁓ I attend a lot of Tony Robbins, a lot of Brendan Bouchard, Rachel Hollis. So we've learned how to do people have told me the online experience is so fun. ⁓ we just get continual people coming back year after year after year. So yeah, come join us. It'd be a great time. I love Tony Robbins because ⁓ you know, my boys they wrestled year round from age five to fifteen.   Yeah. Made our garage. I got two real wrestling mats from the manufacturer in Pennsylvania delivered by an AJ Miller. So I never ever parked in my garage ever. And we would we were listening to that Tony Robbins 30 day, 30 day personal power. Yep. And then I and then I bought my first laptop when I went to MBA school. And so I took notes on it. And then when I was done, I I ⁓ closed down Saturday and I went to a studio Saturday, Sunday, and I ranted out my notes.   And I said, this has got to be 30 hours because I mean it's still Tony Robbins 30 day personal power. And that was the 30-day dental MBA. ⁓ and it worked out to be about thirty hours. But I'm telling you, the pandemic changed everything. That was when ⁓ online CE at Dentaltown just went through the roof and it hasn't come back and dental meetings haven't come back. Cause why do I need to fly to Chicago to listen to you if I got a Zoom call or   or streaming video or this event. I mean, I mean, just think of the plane ticket, the hotel, the sitting and attending. If you're in Phoenix, you know, just to get to New York is a five hour flight. I mean, why I I gotta fly five hours each way when I could see you on YouTube or a podcast or or whatever. But I wanna but I want to go back to that pandemic because that pandemic, I really think the reason you can really do this so successfully today is because of that pandemic. That's why we realize   I don't have to be in the flesh to learn knowledge. And and like I I I feel fine talking to you. I me too. The only thing I regret is teaching my mother how to do that. I got her FaceTime and all that kind of stuff. And because she calls to tell me about ever every one of her exciting things is junk mail she has. She's eighty seven and she believes every piece of junk mail. I love it. She's always free freaking out on her junk mail. But but I want to talk about the pan the dark side of the pandemic.   And that is a lot of people think about 20% of the hygienists left to practice. Before, you know, when I got out of school, your labor was supposed to be twenty percent, your overhead was supposed to be fifty percent. And by the time it was it didn't even take 10 or 20 years, and and due to insurance, I think not keeping up, ⁓ overhead went to basically two thirds. It went to about sixty-five percent and labor went to about twenty five, sometimes twenty-seven percent.   I'm hearing thirty percent labor all the time. And I mean I mean I'm talking about serious dudes who know the business of dentistry. And I don't I don't want to get my buddy Rick Kirstram out of me. He owns a hundred comfort dentals and he said he can't he said he's got the mean and lean where labor is twenty. He says he's got mean and leans with labor at twenty-eight, twenty-eight and a half. So so the the pandemic is ⁓ it that was five years ago. Why do you think it   seriously impacted labor cost of the pandemic. I do, Howard. And I think I think we kind of have this perfect storm, right? Like I think we've got multiple waves coming at us that have impacted. I think the pandemic pushed out those that were like, you know, I'm done. Like, like I'm good. I'm at the end of my career. I don't really want to do that. ⁓ a lot of hygienists are female and I think a lot of them realize they did not need two incomes anymore. And so it's like, you know, I want to be with my kids. I want to be home.   And then hygiene schools don't pump out a lot of hygienists and it's usually like a two year span. So yes, I have actually seen like hygiene is it really did, and then it clicked up. So the cost of hygienist has gone up astronomically. I mean, I think the highest I've seen of a hygienist being paid was 85 an hour. And to me, I was like, at that point, that was up in ⁓ it was up in Washington, up by Bellevue, Mount Vernon, that area. And I literally saw the the posting for 85 plus a a bonus, and I was like,   Screw that at that point. Like in all respect to hygienists, I'm gonna hire a dentist for that cost. Like I truly will. And that's not being disrespectful. It's just like a dentist is a more multifaceted. I understand they are not great hygienists, but if I have to and I'm gonna be putting this number up, like we've got to get to a space where it does work. So yes, I do. However, there are more hygienists coming onto the market. I still know that this is one of the hardest things, but ⁓ I have a practice that's out in Maui, rough life, huh, Howard? I get to fly to Maui to go do work, like.   You know, shout out to that office. ⁓ but what we found is we were able to find a way to get the hygienist to be paid exponentially higher by doing assisted hygiene. And so I think I'm seeing people innovate. I think I'm watching them create. I think I'm seeing people do some more outsourced costs in the front office. And so they're able to then offset the costs of the clinical team. ⁓ I think that people are just getting innovative and creative. And what I want to highlight is while this feels annoying, this is also business. And if we don't innovate and if we don't continue to evolve,   We actually decay and decline as an as an organization and as an industry. And so I know it's annoying and I absolutely empathize. And you're right. Like for me on our payroll, we're at 30%. Like I've had that as our metric for our clients for the last five years because payroll costs have gone up. But I'm like, but just because they've gone up, like let's look at several other industries. I mean, we're not here to like love on or hate on McDonald's, but I'm like, they have kiosks. They figured it out.   I checked in at a hotel in downtown San Francisco. There was no person there when I checked in. It was literally a person on Zoom just like this. I clicked in, they said hello to me. They took my information, but they didn't have to have a physical body in the office. And I think with AI and technology, dentistry is going to evolve, but I think the art and the care of patients does not need to evolve. And so, like, let's put our dollars where that matters and let's be able to look and innovate in other ways that keep our costs low. ⁓ I still think dentistry, I mean, why is there a one percent default rate on loans? Like,   Banks are still lending. We had the first down year of DSOs last year and the first uptick of private practice last year. And so when I look at these things, like it is still a great business to be in, even though labor costs, like, guys, again, it's just another flavor of business. So like let's figure out how to innovate. Let's figure out how to do it. And like, yes, I'm gonna pay for great people. I see team members as assets, not liabilities. And I'm gonna cut and chop on other areas that I can, but I'm also gonna be smart with my labor costs and make sure each person hitting their KPIs, they've got numbers that they're driving.   We are running this as an efficient business while like loving and taking care of our patients at the same time. I'm glad you mentioned bank loans because it's less than one percent default rate. Yes. All the defaults have the same thing in common. They all had their license taken away. Right. Always. And and if it's for drugs or alcohol, they now treat that as a medical disease. And the dentists still say, Screw you, I'm not gonna quit doing biking. And then they run south of the border. And that's why whenever you find a dentist down there that looks like me.   They're running for free Vicada. They they they said I'm not peeing any. So unless you, you know, do something just horrible. I mean, and you know, you have you have to get your it licensed in your way. But I w I wanna tell you about you know, there's just so many other things that you can focus on besides labor, like increasing their productivity. ⁓ I know dental offices. you can get a full if you pay a dentist in the Philippines five dollars an hour.   You get the best dentists in the Philippines. And I and there's dental offices that with Zoom and things like that are doing all their insurance and their claims and all that stuff. I mean, ⁓ so the with with with ⁓ with the internet, I mean you can literally have someone ⁓ be at the front desk ⁓ on a on a kiosk that's actually a dentist from the Philippines from five dollars an hour who when he's not busy can be calling your insurance companies all that. I I want to ask you another thing that's really hot on Dentaltown.   today. Everybody keeps talking about these dental insurance EFTs versus virtual credit cards. but basically everybody's reporting that major dental companies like even Delta are gonna stop sending paper checks and you gotta do it all electronic. And I guess that that electronic could be free, but it could be you know it could be another three and a half or three percent credit card fee on all your claims. Or what or what are your thoughts on all that? I'm hard on that   I have and I'm a hard no on the credit cards. Like, why? Why are you doing that? EFTs are so fast. Like there's absolutely no reason to be paying this. Explain to my home. A lot of them don't even know what a EFT. Mo I I bet 80% of the the dentists listen don't even know what we're talking about. Will you explain it? Will you explain it like I just graduated from dental school eight minutes ago? Of course. Well, I think that this is also where going back a little bit where you said, like, do dentists need to know the business? To me.   You don't even have to know that much, but I want to just challenge you that if you're getting a three, three and a half percent cut on your payments for quote unquote ease, that's a real big hit. And I would just challenge you to think about like for what and why. And so coming in, there's different ways the insurances are going to pay you. So they're gonna pay you via paper check, they're gonna pay you via EFT, which is a electronic fund transfer, or they've got this new thing where they're gonna pay you via credit card. And like honestly, to me, the credit card is so scammy.   And I've talked to so many people and like educate me, like, why would anybody do this? Like, I cannot comprehend. Like, I'm already taking a cut on insurance as is. Like, thank you for my marketing fee to be an insurance. Like, that's how I view that that write-off. Like, I know you hate it, but you're also gonna, you're either gonna have to do that, or you're gonna have to pay for marketing to bring in fee for service patients. So, like, again, let's just think about that. But I'm like, so I've already got a cut there, but I'm then gonna take another hit in addition to that for a credit card ease.   So as we're talking about that electronic fund transfers, they deposit straight into your bank account. The reason that some offices don't care for electronic fund transfers is because like trying to match it up is a like it kind of dumps and chunks into your bank account. So all you need to do is help your team members. Like there's ways that you can have it where it automatically emails your team when that comes through. So then they can go online and they can find out what the EFT was, so then they can balance and like enter it in.   I do think dentistry software is so dated because what happens is when we get paid from the insurance company, we get either like it's called an EOB, it's an explanation of benefits, and it's like batch checks. So when they dump this money to you, Delta's gonna give me like 20 grand. But like, who do I allocate that 20 grand to of all these patients? So that's I think where some people have like, well, electronic funds are so annoying and this and that. But I'm like, they're very quick, they're very fast, they're a lot safer than paper checks. Paper checks people do get embezzled on.   That I literally see no reason. Like, I don't care if you get it like one day sooner with a credit card, you are paying a huge hefty fee on that unnecessarily when electronic fund transfers are pretty much just as fast. Like maybe a like smidgey of a delay. But to me, that's a that's a very worthwhile smidgey of a delay. Because you're getting your payments so much faster. And as long as you're staying on top of it, you should still be able to maintain a 98% collections rate, even if you do checks or if you do electronic fund transfers. It just is so.   So dumb. I've yet to see a reason. But to me, I'm like insurances are so smart because it's just another way for them to take a chip out of what they're paying you and to have it come back to them. So again, think of the motive as to why they're offering. These people are not dumb. Those insurance companies, if you've ever gone to a business who's the biggest building in the entire city, it's your insurance companies. They're not dumb businesses. And I think we need to be smarter business owners that out think that. They always but Delta always says, we're   Yeah, so is Rolex Watch. Rolex Watch is a non profit. And and some of the CEOs of some of the anyway, we won't go there. But ⁓ yeah, ⁓ so what other ⁓ besides you know, when when someone tells me about their overhead, I tell them, look, I can't call the government and have my tax rate lowered. I can't call the nuclear power plant SRP or APS and tell them to lower my electric bill. I mean, something I i if the hygienists can   Wants a dollar an hour and if I say no, I'll give you 75 cents and she can go get a dollar across the street. I mean the market sets many, many prices. So the only way to fight that back is to ⁓ increase your productivity. You know, I mean if if if you have a dollar in labor and they do a dollar in dentistry, your overhead is a hundred percent. But if your dollar in overhead can do two dollars in dentistry, now it's down to fifty percent. So how so ⁓ are there other   ⁓ hidden gaps that are quietly draining profitability, or has it just come down to production? Or is it both I like I'm so glad you brought this up because I think like it's so easy to sit here and say, like, dentistry's not profitable. But I'm like, go find me another business that has a one percent fell rate that usually can run twenty to thirty percent profit margins if you run a business right. And this is not just Kiera sitting here fluff. This is like I got real clients running at these margins consistently. They've got large practices, small practices.   And so when I look at this and I'm like, okay, how do we make this more efficient? A lot of people want to go to the first thing of like, let's cut insurances. And I'm like, yay, pop the confetti, but be real smart. Because again, you're gonna then increase marketing fees, you're gonna lose a lot of your patient base. Like, let's just think through the ramifications. And so there's lots of different ways that we can increase productivity and not have to go for the cut. So I look at three levers that I found that can increase a practice. So one is we can increase our production. We're talking net production, not gross, like please feed your family, not your ego. So that's number one.   Number two is what's your collection percentage? Cause half the time doctors feel like they're broke and they don't have money, but your money's sitting in AR, which is your aging reports or your accounts receivable. We're not collecting the money and we don't have a good billing process. We got to get our collections up to 98%. And then the third thing is like we cut costs. And so looking at that, a lot of people want to go to just cut costs. I'm like, but in dentistry, let's break it down. If I want to add 10 grand more to my practice.   I love to help teams. Most offices are working four days a week. So if we're wanting to add 10 grand to a practice, working four days a week, let's do 10,000 and we're working 16 days a month. That's an extra six twenty-five a day. Well, how can we make six twenty-five in a dental practice? Let's think about our fluoride applications. Let's think about FMXs. Like I'm just talking, this is your lowest hanging fruit for you. Let's talk about could we add one or two fillings? Could we add like same-day dentistry, which is going to make more raving fans for our patients? There is so much ease in there.   Now, to increase our production, we can also look at our case acceptance. Doctors have so much case acceptance. And also, what are we diagnosing? I'm like, doctors, if you want to be producing 100 grand a month, the statistics are you need to be diagnosing three times that amount. And then we need to make sure our treatment coordinators are really good at diagnosing explaining treatment to them. They're not diagnosing, but they're explaining the treatment. They're presenting it in a way. We're not using insurance as our main driver. We're using it as like a coupon. And then we're really good at our follow through and our follow up.   Gotta have a right person, right seat in your treatment coordinator seat that's obsessive with hitting the right goals. And so there's like so many little ways. Like you can in I have added block scheduling, which I know is like a consultant's number one favorite thing to talk about, but like make it really make sense and easy for your team. I've added a million to a practice with no extra days, no extra work. We literally are just being more strategic with how we schedule. And so there's just so many little ways that I want dentists to realize like,   To me, I get really excited. This is where I geek out as a consultant. I geek out and I love to help that is because I'm like, how can I like squeeze more juice from the lemon you're already in? Like, let's just make more lemonade. Let's figure out ways to do it. And then let's make sure our costs are effective. So we teach your teams how to look at the business as a business. We teach each team member about their one KPI that's really going to drive it forward. We help them track. I just did this with an office manager this week and she's so lit up to look at her numbers, to look at her metrics, to see how she can do it.   And when they start to see how they can click it through, it's not you trying to push and drive more money. Like doctors, I tell everybody, every team member, you want your doctor to be so freaking profitable. Because if they're profitable and they're like they're secure, your life is so much better. So like I'm like dentists, we got to get you profitable, we to get the cash flow, we got to get you less stressed because you're gonna be a better dentist and a better business owner. But how are there's so many little easy ways where it's just low-hanging   Typically I'm able to add 10 to 30% of production in usually 90 days to an office, like very consistently with just small little reps, no real extra work. How are we doing our exams? Are we being directive in our treatment planning? Are we using like, okay, next visit I want to see you for this? And when do I want to see you back? And how much time is this going to take? Like, let's break down the barriers of treatment planning. There's so many little simple things that if you just implement, you can be very profitable very easily.   And then look at your P L. If you're not looking at your P and L every single week or month, like just being aware, getting into the language of business, that's also gonna help you too. So yes, cut. ⁓ but I found that it's always a lot easier to make sure our collections match, our production matches, and we use those little low hanging fruits. ⁓ and it's there. Like dentistry is such a magical, like, like it's a great lemon tree. You can make a lot of lemonade out of a dental practice. I want you to tell me if I'm right or wrong or or   I think I think there's two threes to double your price. Number one, if three people call your front desk, one is going to come in because they're smart and they need to they know they need to get their teeth clean. One isn't gonna come in for anything and you can hear them vaping and smoking and drinking beer and eating Cheetos on the call. But one out of three needs a little extra push. And if you train the person answering the phone, they can close that one out of three. And if they do, they doubled your practice. Then when they get in, you still got the now you got three people in chair.   One's gonna do what you say because you're a doctor and they've done their their author search and and you say they got a cavity, they're not gonna argue with you. One's not gonna do anything. In fact, in fact in fact I was like I had about a dozen patients that in the middle of my treatment plan, they asked me if they could just take a cigarette break ⁓ from my presentation and they went outside, had a cigarette, came back. They're gonna do it. But the other one in three needs some some closing skills. And so if you if you can close on the phone   You doubled your practice. You you got two butts in instead of instead of one. And if you fix your treatment plan presentation, you're gonna do two cases at one. And I think it's so funny now because the dentists have never let their hygienist or assistant, let alone receptionist, do any diagnosing treatment plan. But now AI, Pearl, and Overjet diagnosing all the cavities. So you wouldn't let your hygienist while she's in there for an hour.   Diagnose and treatment plan and sell the dentistry, the assistant while they're taking FMX, they they can't point out, yeah, see, that's a cavity, you don't need a filling and a root now. yeah, they couldn't do it because they were humans. But now Pearl and Overjeck can do it all day long and you're good with that. I mean, so so what how do you how do you double the close rate from one out of three to two out of three on the phone? How do you double the treatment plan acceptance rate from one to two out of three? Yeah. Do you do you agree those are possible goals?   Absolutely, Howard. I think again, this is the low hanging fruit that people are like, but that feels so hard. And I'm like, choose your hard. Like, is it harder to spend a little time with a front office and train them how to do this? Is it a little like, or is it harder to be cash flow negative? Like you choose what's your hard to me? Absolutely. Let's go after that. And I agree with you. Like teaching a team to preheat an oven, I call it what would doctor do. And so like, let's train our hygienist.   Like I tell all hygienists, doctor should be the second opinion, not the first opinion. And you got Pearl and you got Overjet. And so just spending a little bit of time with your team. So what we typically do for case acceptance, like let's go hit that one quick and then we'll talk about scheduling. Is I'm really big on let's get the whole team where we're talking the same language. So we recommend, like, what would doctor do? I recommend you run this over the course of six weeks, is typically how long it takes, anywhere from six weeks to maybe three months.   but we're gonna sit there and we're literally going to go through. We're gonna pull up an FMX. We're gonna do it one day over lunch. Hygienists, doctors, and if you want front office and dental assistance, rock on. But really, I want my like people that are seeing the bulk of my patients with doctor and hygiene. We're gonna look there and I want all of our hygienists to start like if we have an FMX up there and the interaurals, what is doctor going to recommend and how is doctor gonna talk about it? We're not just gonna sit here and have a nice little chit-chat. We're each gonna write it down because I wanna make sure every hygienist starts to get very, very comfortable. And the goal that I tell all hygienists is   Your goal should be at the end of this, what would doctor do training over six weeks? And if doctors are really consistent with it, I'm like six weeks of training to be able to double your practice and increase your case acceptance to me is a very good use of my time. So if I can do that, doctors and hygienists, you should be able to have 95% accuracy with your doctors at the end of this. And they do it. So hygienists get really lit up and they get very excited about it because now they're able to preheat the oven. They're able to talk to patients about it, use Pearl, use Overjet.   And then doctors, when they tee it up to you, and I say like hygienist, you've got to be the ones who first like introduce it, talk about it with the doctor as soon as they come in, but be real quick. So we introduce the patient, we compliment the patient on something, we recap the treatment that's discussed and we say something personal. Hygienist, you do that, your doctor exams will be much shorter for you and doctors will love it because it's very quick. If we can get that dialed in, and then doctors, you have a very like confirm the treatment.   then recommend exactly what needs to happen. And then we take that same baton up to the front office and front office, we schedule first. We then present the treatment. We use insurance secondary. I'm never leading with insurance. You do these little items which seem like, ⁓ no, that's like very quick, easy things. You're going to rapidly be able to help those ones. And then I do a two two two follow-up. So if they did not close for me and I'm going to go through it and I'm going to work through and I'm going to track all the people that didn't say yes to me and all the people that did say yes to me.   I'm gonna look for patterns. What are people saying yes? Like those are easy ones. Those are the gimme's. Those are the easy patients that Howard said. I'm looking for the people that say no and what's my pattern in there? And how do I change my verbiage? Because treatment planning is 80% psychology, 20% skill. So like what are you thinking? How are we presenting it? What are the words we're saying? One or two little changes usually will close that. What are the patterns and how can I get that number up higher? And I follow up with them in two days, two weeks, two months to make sure that they don't follow off.   People are like, Kiera, you really make your treatment coordinator do that? And like, yeah, I was your treatment coordinator that closed $50,000 same day. And this is exactly what I did. This is how I've trained co offices across the nation to do it. You just have these simple little things that help them out. And then you flip over to our scheduling. Like, I think scheduling's easy, Howard. I genuinely do. I'm like, half of it is just be nice. Like you got the COVID crank, and so many people are so grumpy and so like.   Annoyed when they pick up the phone, then I'm like, you can already leap your ahead by just being nice and being excited to welcome a patient. Then take like charge of that conversation. So let's take the ownership of that conversation. If someone's Do you take my insurance? I'm going to quickly redirect and say, my gosh, how did you hear about us? I'm going to answer that, but I want to find out how did they hear about us? If it's our Google reviews, if it's a referral, if it's somewhere else, I want to like say, my gosh, you're so lucky to be here.   We love our patients. We love our reviews. I can't wait for you to be a great raving fan too. let's talk about this. I can everything can be overcome. Please do not let being out of network stop people. It's a thousand dollar coupon and we're turning people away over that. No, no, no. We are better than that. And if we are the best dentist, they need to be coming to us. We need to win these patients over, make them feel so loved. Let's get them scheduled. Let's make this a great experience for them. Let's make them feel so excited. I did it with PT called like six offices.   And the office I chose, like so many people were annoyed I was calling. Can I put you on hold? Can I do this? And I was like, no one really wants my business. If you're just nice and you take control of that conversation, you can easily turn and transform your practice. So hopefully that was like not too much. I like I love these things. I love training treatment planning. I love training how to like take control of a phone call. I love helping teams overcome those little simple objections because it's very, very simple things.   that make massive leaps and bounds of change. And it's a great way to double your practice very easily, like you said.   The Dental A Team (36:13) All right, Dental A Team listeners, that was the guest interview that I absolutely loved. And I hope that if there was one idea that stood out to you, don't just agree with it, but actually go implement it this week. And if you need help setting this up in your practice or you need help just navigating or need a friend, head on over to TheDentalATeam.com and I'll be able to help you guys out. Click on the book of call or any way that we can support and serve you. That's what we're here for. That's what we're obsessed with. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Time for our favorite hump day game "Rats Off A Ship: Tobin and Leroy mock Trae Young's bold prediction that the Washington Wizards will be a top seed next season. They share their distaste for new M&M flavors and discuss a bizarre Canadian recipe for banana bread. Finally, they react to rumors of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce renting out Madison Square Garden for a massive wedding ceremony. 01:00 - Trae Young's Wizards Prediction 03:26 - Candy And Banana Bread Debate 08:27 - Taylor Swift Wedding Rumors

Continuing education on your mind? What about areas in your practice you want to grow, or strengths and skillsets you want your team to have? Tiff and Kristy discuss the power of continuing education, including why it changes lives (and offices), where to fit it in your schedule, how to add makeup days of production, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiff (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to have you here today. I know there's an intro you guys listen to that says we're excited for you, and what you're listening to today is the consultants, and we're taking over. ⁓ and and we really are excited to be here today. I have the one and only Kristy Treasure with me this morning. And ⁓ Kristy, I had a client this morning.   that they have a client that is a client of yours. And they were like, Who is it? It was, it's, it's treasure, right? Is that her last name? And I was like, that's truly her last name. She truly is a treasure. And they were looking at it. ⁓ your client had recommended you to them. ⁓ and they they were like, is Treasure really her last name? So I felt like I needed to say it tonight. How are you? I know it was it was cute. Yeah. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (00:37) No.   ⁓ that's so cool. Good. Yeah.   Tiff (00:48) It's the middle of the week for us. This is a wild podcasting day for us. but here we are. Kristy, thank you for being here. And you've got a full week of calls this week too. It's first week of the month for us recording this and how's ⁓ how's everything going over there? How are you how are you doing? How are your clients looking? What have you what trends are you seeing on your end?   The Dental A Team (01:09) Yeah.   It's crazy because I'm seeing a lot of clients have things fall out of their schedule in May, yet we had great numbers. I'm like, is May gonna be the new September or like what's happening here? But I I don't know if it's weather related, graduations. I don't know. It's it's weird.   Tiff (01:24) Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah.   I totally agree with you though. ⁓ here like rounding out end of May, like looking at Maine numbers. I've seen the same thing. I've seen a lot of practices that had some stellar production and some stellar collections. And I even have a few practices yesterday that were shocked when they looked at their numbers because they felt like they were so much worse because the schedule kept falling apart. ⁓ yeah, and I said the same thing. I know my o my Ohio office, I said it's cause it's finally not like   The Dental A Team (01:51) Yeah.   Tiff (01:57) like fifty degrees and ninety mile an hour winds, people are trying to get outside. So we're definitely hitting that season. And I think people are maybe prioritizing their personal lives a little bit more than maybe we're used to ⁓ in dentistry and we might be seeing that. I don't know. But I agree. I'm seeing that for sure.   The Dental A Team (02:17) Yeah, and it seems like it's coast to coast. So and the weird thing is is I d even if I say graduations and stuff, that's not new for May, but we'll see. We'll see. Yeah.   Tiff (02:26) I know, I know.   Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I do agree. Well, I'm excited for the summer. I know here in Arizona it's getting warmer, but we've had a pretty tame summer so far and the rest of the country's catching up to us. So I thought today would be a good day to get us some podcasts under our belt and we chatted before this and decided we're gonna chat about CE, you guys, ⁓ continue continuing education and   Honestly, Kristy, continuing education is something I think you really, really love personally, professionally, and for your practices. It's something I see you prioritize a ton. And so actually, this is a perfect podcast subject for us. And I thought let's chat through some of the CE opportunities, but also, Kristy, I know you and I both work with a lot of practices and a lot of dentists who do a ton of CE.   And making sure we add that into their budget is something I think both of us prioritize. So I thought we could chat about that some as well. So first and foremost, Kristy, personally for you, I would love to hear like what does your CE and your life look like and how how have you successfully prioritized it? Cause I think others can see that in themselves as well. And you truly do. I watch you. You're you're constantly learning, you're constantly absorbing something. ⁓ and how do you how do you fit that into your life?   The Dental A Team (03:52) Yeah. Well, I I am much like you in that we like to prioritize things and be efficient at it. And having gone through James Clear book for atomic habits, I think it's actually up there on my shelf, but we talk about this all the time and I like to combine, hey, every morning I have to get ready and so why not listen to a podcast or an audio book ⁓ while I'm getting ready? And so   Tiff (04:00) No.   The Dental A Team (04:20) A lot of times I will do that for sure. But then also, you know, you, me, all of the coaches, we look at lag measures within a practice and lead measures. And in the next few months, I we're talking about summer, but September is going to be here around the corner too. And we start looking forward to the new year. And as part of our process for looking into the new year, part of that planning can be planning for continuing to education.   Tiff (04:38) It is.   Okay.   The Dental A Team (04:50) What are areas within our practice that we want to grow or grow for ourselves and or for practice needs and literally starting to map that out and what it looks like for next year.   Tiff (05:05) Yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree. And I do think this is the time of the year to think about that because also if we haven't budgeted for it yet for this year, now we need to start looking at what would that budget look like for next year. And I know, Kristy, to your point, there are so many doctors that I've worked with that get to June and they're like, Tiff, there's this thing I want to do in October, but it's full, so I'm on a wait list. And I'm like, Well, when did the list start? Can we do that in twenty twenty seven or whatever the next year is?   Can we do it in that year to also budget for that and be like top of top priority on that list instead of on that wait list? So I totally agree. This is the time of year to start that. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (05:44) For sure. I was gonna say too   Tiff with CE, listening to you talk. I think about it almost like we break marketing into internal and external. I think with CE, we can almost break it that way too. There can be some very low cost, no cost, just like the podcast or webinars, or take time out of the practice, even to work on some of your internal systems. And that is continuing education for your team too.   Tiff (05:55) Yeah.   For sure.   The Dental A Team (06:14) So you could break it into two different buckets. And I know today we were talking about budgeting for the external CE, if you will, but I think teams need to think about that too. And there are the priority of mandatory CE, your HIPAA, your OSHA, making sure we're planning those and blocking them in our schedule too.   Tiff (06:31) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, that's a really good point. And to your point, the like webinars and the ⁓ team and staff trainings and all of those like OSHA HIPAA ⁓ team training just in handoffs in general, what you guys do with Dental A Team when we come into your office, all of those pieces are continuing education. I totally agree. And sometimes you do have to shut down the office. I know Kiera and I talk about this a lot actually in our COVID shutdown is when Dental A Team like we we were we   busted at the seams. We had so much ⁓ work to do. It was wild, but it was because it was that forced shutdown. There wasn't an option, right? And so rather than having the force shutdown and the practices that we knew really not doing anything, they decided, hey, Kiera, Tiff, we need you to train our teams virtually while they're while they're sitting here so that we can continue paying them and they can continue to grow. So when we come back, our systems are solid. So we were building out operations manuals. We were doing   ⁓ we were doing CEs, we were doing how-to's, we were doing everything you can think of, training practices and ⁓ teams in that capacity to your point where it's like, yeah, we just shut down and we're just doing an overhaul of these pieces to get it to where we can run again as soon as we get back. And that is a a massive point because it is continuing education and the budgeting portion of that.   still is okay, great, we're gonna shut down for three days. What does that look like? How do we add that three days worth of production into the rest of the month to make up that shutdown?   The Dental A Team (08:09) Absolutely. And sometimes it may be cost effective or more cost effective to bring people into the practice versus going outward. But looking at what you have in budget and what it would cost to do it beforehand. Yeah. Huge.   Tiff (08:18) Absolutely.   Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I remember one of the first offices that I went in practice to a long time ago, right? We've been doing this for so long now. But one of the first practices I went to, they were like, Whoa, wait, you want me to shut down my afternoon? And I was like, Yes, I do. And they were like, We can't, we can't lose that production. I was I promise you, you're gonna make it up tenfold after the fact because you're all gonna be rowing in the same direction. So no matter what we do during this meeting,   It's gonna be incredible. Your your meeting's gonna be incredible. You're gonna learn great things. The consultants know some amazing things, but you're all rowing in the same direction. And so the production that's gonna come after the meeting in the months, weeks, all of that time frame is tenfold gonna be more than what you might lose, quote unquote, in those couple of hours that you shut down for that training in the afternoon. So I think that's a great that's a great point, Kristy, is bringing people in and you don't have the hotel, you don't have the flights, you don't have all those costs as well.   The Dental A Team (09:19) Yeah. The other thing to that too, Tiff, is if you're going externally, make sure you come up with a plan. How are we gonna come back and implement this? So many times we invest in that CE and we go and then we come back. Maybe we learned about sleep or we learned about, you know, a new service, but then we come back and we never really launch it because we didn't develop a plan for how we were gonna come back and integrate it. We just jumped back into the same old routine.   Tiff (09:28) Yeah.   Yes, which is easy. They talk about like your teeth have that muscle memory. So if you don't wear your retainers, your teeth are gonna go right back to where they're suppos where they're supposed to be, right? Where they grew to. And so your brain is the same. Your brain has that muscle memory and honestly your capacity is the same. So you do you or even having having us in or having another trainer in office, you're like, Yeah, let's do it, let's do it. But to your point, if there's not an actionable, okay, do this, which we leave with, right? We say, Okay, you're gonna do these things, you're gonna do it.   this many times or to this percentage and by this state and so there's an action plan left but if you don't leave with that come back with it or that trainer leaves and you have that your muscle memory and your capacity is gonna flip back to what's easiest and what's easiest is to do what you were doing even if it was hard and not getting the result you wanted it's what you know. So even though it's hard having teeth that are misaligned, your teeth know that space they're gonna go back to it. So you're gonna do the same thing and so will your team.   The Dental A Team (10:45) Yeah. You know, something else that was coming to my mind is so many doctors hear these new things and they it's like we talk about the shiny object, right? Have you ever with some of your doctors or teams, like before they jump in and invest in that, actually pull your patients and see is this a service that they're looking for or would be interested in?   Tiff (10:55) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (11:08) 'Cause sometimes they invest a lot, right? And then they come back and they're really disappointed because it was like, Man, I didn't have the market for that or how do I have to market it to really make it work, you know?   Tiff (11:11) Yeah.   Mm.   Yes, that's huge. And I think that is something originally this topic was given to us as trends in dentistry. And it's like, gosh, trends in dentistry could be so vast, right? And it's like, to your point, it ch it truly just depends on the doctor and the patient base, the demographic that you're in. I've worked with plenty of practices that are in a demographic that doesn't support sleep, but they want to do sleep, right? But they're in ⁓ like a a Medicaid.   you know, area. They they take Medicaid and they do the and yes, I want to offer that service, but to your point, is that something that your patient base is looking for in that area? Yes, I want to give it to them, but the cost might not be worth the value back, the ROI that you're gonna get in return for the CE that you just took.   The Dental A Team (12:10) Yeah, one hundred percent. Or you're gonna have to spend a ton more in marketing to draw from a greater area, right? And so now your investment just got even greater.   Tiff (12:14) Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. And that's the difference I think, Kristy too. I I have a dentist, he loves CE, like loves. I have a bucket, he pours into his CE bucket every single month because he spends a n ton of money on CE every year. And I'm we're like, cool, fine with it. We budgeted for it. But to that point, there's CE that he does that he does because he's interested in it and wants the knowledge. He just likes to learn.   And there's CE that he does that he knows he's gonna actually implement and get a great ROI on in the office. And so he knows those two like demographics, right? He knows those two differences in the CE and he plays to whichever side or team, however you wanna say it, he's playing to to get that to get that done.   The Dental A Team (13:07) Yeah. Going into it eyes wide open, right? That's that's the best. So then the expectation meets your outcome. But yeah.   Tiff (13:10) Yeah.   Yes. Yes.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause there's so many things. There's a million things I want to learn that I'm interested in. But it's like, okay, well, the ROI has to be there for the time, for the finances, for the input, the output, all of those pieces have to make sense. So yeah, I love that. I do have practices too when we're talking, you know, quote unquote trends that do have like I I talked to a practice yesterday that has a a trainer that comes in for Sarah.   The Dental A Team (13:30) Yeah.   Tiff (13:43) crowns, right? So we know all of those. We've got the Sarat Crowns, we've got a bunch of trainers that do come in. We've got practices that come, we come in two practices, but then practices that come to us two times a year. So there's those as well. And there's all the sleep apnea, the implants supported. And I'm a huge advocate before I'll go on this tangent before we move forward. I'm a huge advocate for like going back and learning something you've already learned.   So a lot of doctors that I work with are like, yeah, I took that, I took that implant pathways course, you know, 10 years ago. I'm like, awesome. Do you think anything's changed in the last 10 years that maybe hasn't popped up on a forum for you? Right. Like there's so many things that I think if you if you're not going back and getting that exposure again and retaking classes or getting recertified or what have you, I think there's a lot to be lost in there with how quickly dentistry moves and progresses, especially with technology.   I think it's really easy to fall behind in those spaces.   The Dental A Team (14:45) I agree with you a hundred percent, Tiff. Yeah.   Tiff (14:48) Yeah. Yeah. So budgeting for it is easy, right? Well, from our perspective at least. Like from my perspective, it's easy. ⁓ when I think when you're in it, I do this personally. I think when I'm in it, I'm like, yeah, I want all of those things. And then I'm just gonna figure out how to afford them. But what we do is we take a step back and say, Okay, cool. What do you want to do? And and like you said, do the research on what is your patient base, what are they using? And I like to look at what are you referring out the most that you want to keep in house that you would   that you would want to do. If you don't love root canals, don't do root canals. Refer those out. But if you're like I could place implants and I could enjoy that, great. Then maybe we look at an implant course depending on how many you're sending out. So do that due diligence and then start vetting courses. Like what courses have the best reviews? Where how far are they? I make my doctors look at the course cost, which is always easy. We think of that. But then on top of that, what is your travel?   The Dental A Team (15:21) Right.   Tiff (15:48) Right. And I think maybe Kristy that comes from us traveling. It's very easy for us to think that far ahead to be like, okay, well, what about a rental car, a flight, and a flight home and a hotel and food? Like we're doing this every other week. So I think it's easy. But I have them like lump all of that together and then literally build a budget so that they're saving a certain amount of that goes into their not their   Bam per se, right? Because that's how do we keep the practice open. But it's their BAM of well, if we want to make this happen, that's the in access bam that we're saving.   The Dental A Team (16:22) Yeah, I agree with you. And then that way too, we chunk it down, right? If the course is next September, we have this many months to add that to our bucket, so to speak, to pay for it, right? And same thing if they're looking to take team with them, it makes it a a lot more affordable than fo forking it all out at once. And then we also know what we have to hit every month, like you said, to the BAM. We make it a goal with the team and we achieve it together.   Tiff (16:26) Yeah.   Yep.   Yes.   Yeah. Yeah.   Yes, and we move the money. Don't leave it in the account that can be spent. We move the money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have an office that I had a ⁓ an office manager call me just frantic. And she's like, my gosh, there's this thing coming up. It's this massive thing that doctor decided she wants to send everybody to. And it's in three months. And she's like, I don't know how we're gonna afford it. That's not like great question. So we had to work backwards, you know, and it   The Dental A Team (16:58) Absolutely agree with you a hundred percent.   Tiff (17:23) It was a stretch and it was hard, but I was like, cool, now we know this is something that you guys are interested in and it's gonna happen again next year. So if we're gonna go again next year, now we know the costs and we can pay for this this year, figure out how to pay off that credit card, and then start saving for the next one. And we worked it for the office manager. It was very easy because we had worked something similar for a bonus that they   we're working towards and so she could like relate it. She's like, this is exactly what we did for that the cruise we want to take or whatever it was, the Hawaiian vacation, whatever wherever they were sending them to, I can't remember, that she could relate it and say, ⁓ I can do that. And I'm like, gosh, we make it so difficult, right, to budget these things out. But we do it in our personal lives when we're like, I want to go to Europe. I want to go on a trip. I want to go to California, wherever. We're doing the same thing, but we forget to do that in business.   The Dental A Team (18:15) Yeah.   I love that you talked about the bonus because literally I was gonna say these CE things can be a very rewarding thing to take the team to and use it in that capacity. And to be honest with you, Tiff, I there's been so many times where I've seen doctors go, Well, I'll take my key players. And then they come back and they regret that they didn't bring the whole team because hearing having the whole team go to some of these things.   Tiff (18:33) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (18:41) ⁓ number one, the bonding experience for team can be huge. And number two, we all hear things differently. So we're gonna bring back a different piece of the pie and literally to hit the ground running and really implement some of these things coming back can be hugely beneficial to bring the whole team if you can budget and afford it, right? So with that being said, to add that to the budget and plan for it can be rewarding in more than one way.   Tiff (18:48) Yep.   Yeah.   Absolutely. And I think it shows the investment in the team, Kristy, because as you're talking, I'm thinking of all the excuses I'm gonna hear from doctors, right? Like, well, my team turnover. I don't know if that like what if they leave? And it's like, what if they do leave? But showing if you have the availability and if it's a desire of yours. I'm not saying change your perspective and change your thoughts and ideals. Like I it's neither here nor there to me, but my perspective can be on this.   If I show the investment to this team and I truly believe in them and I want them here, I'm investing in them and I'm having fun with them. I'm integrating them as my team and I'm not sitting here saying I'm the only one who can do this. So I'm gonna go and bring it all to you guys, but you guys can come with me. I think Kristy that helps that bond and it helps that tie to the doctor and the practice and increases the culture value. So you're actually potentially with the right people.   less likely to lose people than more likely to lose people if that makes sense.   The Dental A Team (20:09) Yeah,   one hundred percent. And and I've heard that in my a lifetime in dentistry too. But I will tell you that, you know, it it's CE has been one of the things that's really helped form me. And I'm very grateful for the people that invested in me. And you know, to that point too, Tiff, sometimes we have to look like I did come back and maybe they only stayed a year or two. However, they might have brought more to the bottom line too that wouldn't have been there.   Tiff (20:23) For sure.   The Dental A Team (20:38) So don't always see it as a loss either. And you never know what's going to come back around. You know, even if those people leave, they may be referring patients to you just because you have that knowledge and know the skill set.   Tiff (20:39) Yeah.   Yeah. And building, I think to your point, building ⁓ systems and protocols and settings things into stone thereafter the CE, right? Like there's so much groundwork that's being laid, whether they leave or not. They're doing so much for the future people who are coming in and potentially even referring other employees to your practice, not just patients as well.   The Dental A Team (21:01) Yeah.   Yeah. I'd say, you know, last year, at the end of last year, I had one of my clients that was looking to go to an Invisalign course and she literally was worried about bringing the whole team and stuff. But afterward, she was ready to book another one. And literally at that meeting, you know, we talked about it. Set your goals. And they literally ⁓ set their Invisalign goals and got to Pearl level like within less than a year.   Tiff (21:29) Yeah.   wow.   The Dental A Team (21:42) And so it really did number one, bomb them and the team got rallied and excited and it affected, you know, how they were treating patients and team. So they all benefited.   Tiff (21:54) Yeah. That's awesome.   That's amazing. I love that. I love that. So I think this one kind of I this was more of a conversation and I loved it. And I knew it would be because it was a it's a controversial subject and there's so many different angles to take on it. So thank you for having that with me. I would say C E is important. It's summertime, so it's time to   Make sure you've got your CE this year. If you need it for your license, by the way, start looking if you don't have that yet. And secondary to that, Kristy, I totally agree. It's time to start thinking about next year. So 2026 right now, so whatever year you're listening to this, it doesn't matter. ⁓ next year is still next year. So right now, start thinking about 2027 and budget it. I think Kristy, you're 100% right. Inventory your practice. What are what are things you're referring out that you could keep in that you would want to keep in? I talked to a dentist yesterday that does not want to do root canals.   Don't do them if you don't want to do them. Like you only do the things you want to. So then look for the courses, price it out, price out the whole thing. If you're leaving, price it out. If you're bringing someone in, price it out. Like whatever that is, what is the production you're gonna lose both ways? If you're leaving the office or if somebody's coming in, what's the production loss? ⁓ price it out and then prep for it. So start budgeting that every single month and moving that money. I have a lot of doctors who will prepay for CE at the end of the year.   to get rid of some of that cash so that they're not paying taxes on that chunk of cash. And that's a really easy way to do it. I know we do try to do end of year spending. What better time of year to start prepping for that than mid year? Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:29) Absolutely.   Couldn't agree with you more, Tiff.   Tiff (23:32) Awesome. Okay, well guys, that's a wrap on our CE chat for today. I hope that you find something really, really fun. Leave us a review below. Let us know what you decided to do and if there are any courses that you guys suggest for other practices. We are all about sharing best practices and sharing just a wealth of knowledge from wherever we can gather it. So leave that in the comments as well or reach out to us. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com.   And we will be more than happy to take your suggestions and also help you budget if you need help budgeting. So that's a wrap. Kristy, thank you so much. I know this was a slam dunk of a scheduling opportunity here. So I appreciate you being here today with me, and I appreciate you always making podcasting so easy. Yeah, awesome guys. And I hope you go have a wonderful summer, and we'll catch you next time.   The Dental A Team (24:14) Thank you.  

Join Tricia and Jojo for a delightful Tea Time conversation with bestselling fantasy romance author Ben Alderson. Known for his magical fantasy worlds, epic adventures, and MM romances, Ben chats with us about his writing journey, world-building, inspiration, and life beyond the pages. Grab a cup of tea and join the conversation! Visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books: https://www.vivianaenchantressofbooks.com/2026/06/audiobook-lovin-2026-presents-s12-ep-7.html Support the podcast by becoming a patreon at www.patreon.com/AudiobookLovin or Buy Me A Coffee: www.buymeacoffee.com/enchantresspr We hope you have enjoyed this production of The Audiobook Lovin' Podcast. Guest: Author Ben Alderson Tea Time Hosts: Tricia & Jojo Host: Viviana Izzo Podcast Intro & Outro: Xavier Blade Editor: Viviana Izzo This has been an Audiobook Lovin' production part of the Audiobook Lovin Network. Copyright 2017 by Viviana Izzo, Enchantress of Books. Production Copyright 2017 by Audiobook Lovin'. Audiobook Lovin' Series, The Audiobook Lovin Podcast is a division of Viviana, Enchantress of Books. Please visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books to learn more about the Audiobook Lovin' Series. All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, modified, copied, distributed, repackaged, shared, displayed, revealed, extracted, emailed, transmitted, sold or otherwise transferred, conveyed or used, in a manner inconsistent with the Agreement, or rights of the copyright owner. You shall not redistribute, repackage, transmit, assign, sell, broadcast, rent, share, lend, modify, extract, reveal, adapt, edit, sub-license or otherwise transfer the Content. You are not granted any synchronization, public performance, promotional use, commercial sale, resale, reproduction or distribution rights for the Content. For permission requests, please visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books for more information.

EWOT for Stroke Recovery: The Affordable Alternative to Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Brad Pitzele did not set out to become an oxygen therapy equipment maker. He set out to survive. After years of battling significant health challenges, conventional medicine had given him answers that kept failing him. He tried around 200 treatments. Some helped. Many did not. Then he found EWOT Exercise With Oxygen Therapy, and something finally shifted. Brad’s journey is not the same as a stroke. But what he discovered about oxygen, inflammation, and cellular energy maps directly onto one of the most stubborn obstacles stroke survivors face: the feeling that the brain has gone offline, that the body is running on empty, and that the path back is either impossibly expensive or simply does not exist. In Episode 407 of the Recovery After Stroke podcast, Brad shares what EWOT is, why it works, and why he now makes affordable EWOT systems through his company, One Thousand Roads, specifically so survivors do not have to remortgage their homes to access oxygen-driven recovery. What Is EWOT? EWOT stands for Exercise With Oxygen Therapy. The concept is straightforward: you breathe high-concentration oxygen through a mask while exercising even lightly, and that combination pushes oxygen into parts of the body that normal breathing cannot reliably reach. Most people assume oxygen therapy means a hyperbaric chamber: a pressurized tube, a clinic, a course of treatments costing tens of thousands of dollars. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) is effective. Brad describes it as “a heroic treatment.” But it is also inaccessible for most survivors, financially and logistically. EWOT operates on a related principle without the chamber. The key mechanism is not about oxygenating red blood cells; they are already carrying close to their maximum load under normal breathing. The target is the blood plasma. Plasma does not carry oxygen efficiently under resting conditions, but during exercise, even light exercise, blood pressure and circulation increase enough to force dissolved oxygen into the plasma. That plasma can then reach the micro-capillaries, the tiny vessels that feed tissues deep in the body, including areas of the brain that become inflamed and oxygen-starved after a stroke. The Post-Stroke Energy Problem One of the most commonly reported and least-explained symptoms after stroke is fatigue that does not go away, no matter how much a survivor rests. Most survivors are told that is just part of it. Brad’s framework centres on mitochondrial dysfunction. Mitochondria are the energy-producing structures inside cells. After stroke, the cells in and around the affected area are often not dead; they are in a kind of low-power state. Brad describes it as a “brownout”: the lights are on, but dimly. The mitochondria are not producing energy at full capacity, and one significant reason for that is insufficient oxygen supply to the tissue. “The cells that are offline after a stroke are not all dead. Some of them are just starving. Oxygen is part of what feeds them back.” — Brad Pitzele, Episode 407 When EWOT increases plasma oxygen during exercise, it can reach those inflamed, under-oxygenated micro-capillaries that larger vessels cannot access. The result, for some survivors, is a gradual improvement in energy, cognition, and physical capacity, not because the therapy is miraculous, but because it addresses a specific physiological deficit that conventional post-stroke care often does not target. EWOT vs. Hyperbaric: What’s the Real Difference? The honest answer is that EWOT and hyperbaric oxygen therapy are not equivalent. HBOT delivers oxygen under pressure, which drives it into tissue more forcefully. For certain conditions, particularly in acute or severe cases, hyperbaric oxygen has a stronger evidence base.  But for many stroke survivors in the subacute or chronic phase of recovery, access is the defining variable, not theoretical ceiling. A home-based hyperbaric unit costs $50,000 to $75,000. A clinical course can run to $60,000 or more. EWOT systems are available for under $2,000.  The question Brad puts to survivors is not “which is better in a lab?” It is: “Which one can you actually do, consistently, at home, over the months and years that brain recovery requires?” Consistency matters more than peak intensity in long-term neurological recovery.  Starting EWOT With Deficits EWOT does not require running on a treadmill. The exercise component can be a stationary bike, a recumbent bike, or simple seated leg movements with one limb strapped in. The goal is to raise circulation enough to push oxygen into the plasma, not to hit a cardiovascular fitness target. For survivors exploring this option, Brad’s team has built a specific resource at onethousandroads.com/stroke-recovery with a listener discount of $100 to $500, depending on the package. There is also a broader introduction to EWOT at onethousandroads.com/pages/exercise-with-oxygen-therapy. Recovery Is Possible — And It Does Not Have to Be Expensive If this episode resonated with you or if you want to explore more conversations about recovery options that do not require a second mortgage, Bill’s book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened, is available at recoveryafterstroke.com/book. And if the Recovery After Stroke podcast has been useful to you, you can support it financially at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Every contribution helps keep the show going and these conversations accessible to survivors around the world. This blog is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your doctor before making any changes to your health or recovery plan. EWOT for Stroke Recovery: The Affordable Alternative to Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Why pay $60,000 for hyperbaric oxygen? EWOT brings oxygen therapy into your living room — and could help the brain cells that are only offline. One Thousands Roads Exercise With Oxygen Therapy (EWOT) YouTube Channel Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Background 05:37 Challenges in Stroke Recovery and Treatment Options 13:45 Understanding Oxygen Therapy and Its Mechanism 15:51 Oxygen Toxicity Explained 19:24 The Importance of Oxygenating Blood Plasma 24:53 Oxygen and Mitochondrial Function 31:16 Adapting Exercise for Stroke Survivors 38:27 Cost and Accessibility of Oxygen Therapy Devices Transcript: Introduction – EWOT for Stroke Recovery Brad Pitzele (00:00) like many of your listeners, when you have a medical issue that isn’t treated by traditional medicine and you’re desperate to get your life back, you’ll try just about anything. You, the lens it goes through is like, Well, how bad can this hurt me? BIll Gasiamis (00:15) Welcome back to Recovery After Stroke. I’m your host, Bill Gassiamas. Today’s guest is Brad Pitzele, founder of 1000 Roads, who overcame significant health challenges of his own and along the way discovered the science behind exercise with oxygen therapy. In this conversation, we get into how increasing oxygen saturation in the blood, specifically in the blood plasma, can help reach the inflamed microcapillaries. That are blocking oxygen delivery to cells in the recovering brain. We talk about mitochondrial dysfunction, post-stroke fatigue, and why Ewatt is worth understanding as an accessible alternative to hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Before we get into it, if you’ve found value in this podcast and want to support it financially, you can do that at patreon.com/slash recovery after stroke. And if you haven’t yet read my book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, it is available at recovery after stroke dot com slash book. Here’s my conversation with Brad. BIll Gasiamis (01:19) Brad Pitsley, welcome to the podcast. Brad Pitzele (01:22) Thank you so much. BIll Gasiamis (01:24) Thanks for reaching out and ⁓ connecting with me to educate me on another thing that I can bring to stroke survivors that could potentially help them in the rehabilitation side of their brain. The the thumbnail that people found on YouTube is probably gonna have E W O T on it somewhere. E what. And it sounds something like something out of that ⁓ space war out of out of what is it? Brad Pitzele (01:53) Star Wars. Star Wars. BIll Gasiamis (01:54) Star Wars. Like the Ewok, right? And it doesn’t really mean anything to me. But before we descri tell people what Ewok is, ⁓ tell me a little bit about your background, the work that you do and how it is you came to be on the podcast today is for s for for the specific discussion that we’re gonna have. Brad Pitzele (01:58) Yep. Sure. ⁓ yeah, so I ⁓ I I’m an e recovering engineer. I like to joke. I spent my first decade of my life engineering. later on in life, I left engineering and went into different pursuits and I became chronically ill, had a variety of medical issues, ⁓ cancer, autoimmunity, and eventually Lyme disease. And I was in really bad shape. And a doctor recommended I look into either hyperbaric oxygen or this exercise with oxygen therapy, EWAT, that almost no one had heard of, and I’d never heard of it. ⁓ I I I had tried like everything to get better at this point. I was many years in special diets, ⁓ all sorts of supplements and ⁓ all sorts of modalities and things. And nothing really worked. There was nothing in a matter of fact, some of the medications I took actually gave me cancer. So it kind of forced me on this road to try something different. ⁓ and eventually I found my way back to health through exercise with oxygen when so many things weren’t working. ⁓ and actually later paired that with ⁓ red light therapy. ⁓ and along the way I started because I’m an engineer and I’m inquisitive, I like It was Lyme disease is kind of a do-it-yourself disease. ⁓ so I started digging in and pouring into research, not just on Lyme disease, but autoimmunity, ⁓ chronic illness, ⁓ trying to figure out what the heck was going on with me. And so ⁓ what I found about exercise oxygen therapy along the way was really fascinating to me. and about a year into using it, I went back to that same doctor and he was kind of shocked. At my turnaround, and he was like, What did you use? Did you do oxygen? And I said, I did. And he was like, Who’d you buy it from? I want to tell my patients about it. And I said, I didn’t buy it, Doc. I actually ended up making my own. And he was kind of surprised by that for obvious reasons. And then he said, Well, gosh, would you consider making it for my patient? And so, my patients, and so that’s how we got into this business back in two thousand eighteen. We launched one thousand roads to kinda make exercise with oxygen therapy accessible to people who are dealing with chronic health conditions. BIll Gasiamis (04:39) Okay. And it stems from science, right? There’s scientific data that backs up this exercise with oxygen therapy. Before you go into that a little bit, we don’t have to go deep into it, but we can just ⁓ chat about it. ⁓ when I talk to stroke survivors, they get stuck always with what should I do? What should I do? What should I do? They want the The blue pill, take that one, everything gets fixed. I mean, stroke is not like that, right? And it’s and it’s stroke is also a you’re on your own kind of thing. Because once you get out of the acute phase, once you get sent home, the ⁓ follow up and the medical fraternity doesn’t have a system to kind of say to you, we can’t help you. Speak to that guy. ⁓ that guy might not be able to help you, but but there’s a guy over there. Brad Pitzele (05:09) Yeah. Challenges in Stroke Recovery and Treatment Options BIll Gasiamis (05:33) Like there’s none of that. And stroke survivors need podcasts. They need ⁓ people selling all sorts of crazy stuff that they will almost try almost all the time. They’ll try everything. And then they’ll pick and finally stumble into one that helps and gets them a result. But before we talk about all of that, what I want to do is also go back to what you said about ⁓ a year later, you went to your doctor, he was stunned at the result. We can’t put that down just to eat what? We can’t put that down just to exercise with oxygen therapy. Give me the brief steps on the other things that you also attended to because people miss that. Brad Pitzele (06:15) Yes. Yeah. I well, here’s what I’ll tell you. I started I started to get arthritis in my hands in like 2010 or eleven. and then I started taking traditional drugs for it. And one of the side effects of the drugs is higher risk of cancer and specifically melanoma, which I developed in two thousand thirteen, I wanna say, maybe two thousand fourteen. And that kicked me off the traditional medical path. ⁓ to your point, you don’t you don’t in the stroke recovery, there’s not a traditional path. There it was a traditional path, but it was clear that it was a you know it was a choice between cancer and autoimmunity, and neither one seemed great to me. ⁓ from there I tried so many things, Bill. I did s I actually made a list recently and looked at it because I had it like just off the top of my head, I came up with 200 different things I did try. We’re talking special diets. Eating all sorts of weird, strange things, all sorts of supplements, antibiotics, because it’s Lyme disease, herbal protocols, ⁓ ozone treatments, sa various different types of saunas, ozone sauna, infrared sauna, ⁓ heat steam saunas, ⁓ colonics, coffee enemas, ⁓ weird stuff, you know, you’d never think you’d do. I mean BIll Gasiamis (07:39) You are committed Brad Pitzele (07:42) ‘Cause like many of your listeners, when you have a medical issue that isn’t treated by traditional medicine and you’re desperate to get your life back, you will you’ll try just about anything. You the the lens it goes through is like, Well, how bad can this hurt me? Like like ’cause I know where I’m going right now. For me at least it was a I was just like this gradual step down. It was like I knew like I I couldn’t do this. I had a young family. so, you know, that doctor, I remember him saying, like, look, Brad, we’re trying all these things, we’re gonna get you on thyroid medications and get that right, and we’re gonna do this. ⁓ there on that list of 200, there were about eight things that gave me any kind of benefit that I could identify. ⁓ But I remember he’s like, Brad, we’re gonna take out the big dog. We’re gonna do this ozone treatment. And it’s a special kind where we remove the blood from your body, we inject ozone, put it through UV light, and put it back into your blood. And this helps everyone. Like if nothing else works, this helps, but it’s really expensive. So we’re saving it, kind of. So he he did it. He’s like, do a course of three of them. And he’s like, You might feel bad after it the next day because it kills a bunch of stuff and might you might feel toxic. Or you might feel better. We’re not sure. And give it a few days. And like I did all three of them, I never noticed a difference. And it was ⁓ the most depressing, scary part was like going through that. So when he said go do oxygen, I was like, Okay, like I’ve done everything else. I’m just gonna check the box so the doctor knows that’s not gonna work, so we can go try to find something else. ⁓ And I didn’t believe it was gonna work. I I you know, I didn’t jump on the the bandwagon gung-ho. I was, you know, kind of kicking and screaming. And that was part of the reason I built my own, is because at the time they were so expensive and the they were five to twenty-five thousand dollars. And I was like, I just can’t spend, you know, ten thousand dollars on an experiment. I just can’t do that. ⁓ And he also suggested maybe hyperbaric and that was like fifty or seventy-five thousand dollars. And I was like, geez, if I knew this was the the blue pill, as you said it, if I knew this was the blue pill, I’d go mortgage the house and I’d go do it because like then I could work full and I could do all the things, I could be present for the family, but ⁓ I couldn’t. BIll Gasiamis (10:05) And and and you know what? And it’s not, and and the reason it’s not for a lot of people is because you need to have penumbras the brain from a stroke survivor perspective that are recoverable and that you can bring back to life that are offline, not dead by ⁓ cell death because of the stroke. And there’s no diagnostic process in the majority of the people I’ve spoken to, you can’t diagnose somebody and then work out whether they’re a candidate, and that really Brad Pitzele (10:20) Yeah. Right. BIll Gasiamis (10:33) Pisses me off to somebody gonna have to spend 50 grand to find out if they’re gonna get a result, right? The s the guys that who I’ve interviewed about hyperbaric oxygen therapy, ⁓ Viv clinics, ⁓ those guys will do a thorough diagnostic beforehand to determine whether somebody is a candidate. And whatever that costs, even if it’s five grand, I don’t know what it does cost, but even if it’s five grand, at least you can go, you’re not a candidate, don’t spend any more money. Brad Pitzele (10:38) Yeah. Right. higher yes, you have a higher level of certainty before you spend the money. BIll Gasiamis (11:04) Yeah. And if you do do it, you’re doing it for the other ⁓ non-brain related benefits that you’re gonna get from hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And that’s totally up to you. But it’s not the thing to supposedly fix the arm or the leg that doesn’t work, or to ⁓ repair the damaged cells in your brain. So that part really frustrates me. And if I’m gonna spend that much money, then there’s the opportunity cost as well. It’s like Brad Pitzele (11:33) Yes. BIll Gasiamis (11:34) Now I can’t spend that somewhere else. Brad Pitzele (11:36) Exactly. That was me too. It was like you you knew you had and I was like, man, if I spend this kind of money on it and it doesn’t work, like nothing’s worked for the last, I don’t know, almost ten years at this point. Like how many of these shots do I have in the cannon, right? Like you you know, now I’m I’m depleted and I’m still sick. And that’s even i and you know this, when you’ve got a chronic health condition, sometimes the psych psychology of it all is just as hard as the condition. And If you’re like, wow, now I don’t have money. I feel trapped. There’s nothing I can try. Then hope starts to dwindle. And I say like hope is is like the most potent weapon in recovering from a chronic health condition. It’s a double-edged sword because like you’re s afraid to get hope up because you’ve been let down. But it’s also the thing you need. You ha like when when you start losing hope, and I and I’ve been at that point, it just gets incredibly dark. ⁓ and incredibly scary. so I I think that was part of it. I just wouldn’t allow it. It was the financial part. I you’re right. You only have so many shots out of the bow. But it was also like if it doesn’t work and I am depleted financially you know, I don’t like that that brings me to a a level of hopelessness I I’m not sure I can confront. BIll Gasiamis (12:53) Yeah. And then in order to get back up, you’re getting back up, you’re financially depleted, you’re energetically depleted, your health is depleted. And it’s like, my God, that is a that is like the lowest place that you can find yourself and to get back up is a lot harder. And yet people have still done that, but I know the task is harder. I’ve been in a similar sort of situation. Brad Pitzele (13:12) Yeah. We all love we all love reading that inspirational story. No one wants to live it if they can avoid it, I’ll tell you. Understanding Oxygen Therapy and Its Mechanism BIll Gasiamis (13:23) Avoid it. Yeah, a hundred percent. ⁓ so so you’ve tried all this stuff, you’re unwell, and then somebody says to you, try oxygen. Now, what I imagine when I hear oxygen is get a can from the local gas supplier, ⁓ pop pot in a tube, put it on the back of your chair, wheelchair. You know, I’ve seen a lot of older guys who have got it, and then they’ve got oxygen attached to their face and they’re breathing in oxygen. What specifically did your doctor tell you to get and if you didn’t get what he suggested, like w what did it look like for you? Brad Pitzele (14:00) Yeah, so the challenge with bottled oxygen is number one, it’s almost impossible to get. number two is when you exercise, you can take in a massive amount of oxygen, and that’s part of what makes the the therapy really cool. So y you and I sitting here, maybe we’re taking in three liters of oxygen a minute, okay? ⁓ three liters of air a minute, maybe something like that. ⁓ When you’re exercising, you can easily take in 50 or 60 liters. So it’s a massive multiplier. So you need something that’s going to give you a large amount of oxygen. Now, there’s two ways you can get oxygen in your home. One is that bottle you mentioned, and then you’re always refilling it, and you can imagine lugging one of those things around. ⁓ the other way is there’s a device called an oxygen concentrator, and all you do is you plug it into the wall. And it turns the it purifies the oxygen in the room. So, you know, at sea level, the oxygen in the room has 21% oxygen and it can purify it to 93%. Now, the challenge with these devices is they put out either five or ten liters of oxygen in a minute. So not enough to exercise with. If you were to try to exercise with it, you would also be sucking in this air at 21% and diluting it. ⁓ and so what you do is you take this device and you fill a large reservoir, it’s about a thousand liters, ⁓ and you fill it up. using this device and then you hook up a hose with a mask on it and then you breathe through the mask while you do a fifteen minute exercise session. BIll Gasiamis (15:41) Okay. A reservoir, ⁓ water tank. Oxygen Toxicity Explained Brad Pitzele (15:45) It well it it’s like it looks like a big pillow. So it’s like six you know, two meters by two meters, sort of ⁓ big pillow, six feet by six feet for us still on Imperial. And you fill it up so a thousand liters and it’s you know it’s it’s thin film and so it’s not a a rigid body of something, and then yeah, it’s a bag. BIll Gasiamis (16:06) It’s a bag. Like a bagpipe, a massive bagpipe. Brad Pitzele (16:10) There you go. BIll Gasiamis (16:12) Okay. Okay. W I’m sure there’s an image of that, right? We’ll put it on the screen. People can see it while we’re talking about it, trying to work out what it is. Okay. So this thing is something that you accessed and you used specifically for yourself, how many years ago? Brad Pitzele (16:16) Yeah. Yeah. I’ve s I’ve been using it for a decade straight now. BIll Gasiamis (16:33) Okay. This stuff’s been around for about a decade. This Brad Pitzele (16:37) It’s well, the the research on it goes back to the nineteen sixties and seventies. This it’s really fascinating. actually some of the early research goes back to the turn of the ⁓ twentieth century, the nineteen hundreds. So in the early nineteen hundreds, a gentleman named Otto Warburg won a Nobel Prize for proving that he could turn any cancer or any regular cell into a cancerous cell by depriving it of oxygen. ⁓ and so there’s this really well-established linkage between oxygen and cancer. Even today, a ton of research on that. So in the 1960s and 70s, there was a a German physicist and prolific inventor named Manfred von Arden. Now, and he started to want to do research on Otto’s work, and he he actually started doing research on exercising with oxygen as an anti-cancer protocol. And some of the research he found was really fascinating. what without getting overly technical, basically it our circulatory system, obviously, this is really relevant to stroke, ⁓ people deal in strokes, is as you get down into the the end runs of your circulatory system, there’s capillaries and they’re like thinner than a human hair. And this is where your nutrients and your oxygen are actually exchanged with the cell. And what he found is as we age naturally this inflammation builds up on the lining of our capillaries. And it actually causes the capillaries to swell shut so that now none of your red blood cells can get by. Now, I mean, this is how exquisite our body is designed. ⁓ our capillaries are actually thinner than a red blood cell. So under the most healthy of conditions. A red blood cell actually needs to fold up like a taco to get into our capillaries and deliver that oxygen in the last mile of our circulatory system. So any swelling in that capillary can cause a blockage. And now all the cells downstream are not getting oxygen and in a sufficient quantity. And so they kind of go into what they what he kind of referred to as like a brownout, right? Like it’s a low energy state. They’re doing anaerobic respiration to get some energy. Maybe some of the smaller red blood cells might squeak by here and there and give a little bit, but they’re not getting the full oxygen they need. And what he found is by doing this procedure, just a few times he had very elderly people with very inflamed ⁓ capillaries. He was able to re-establish normal blood flow. And the reason is is oxygen is incredibly anti-inflammatory. ⁓ and a lot of research on that we can go into a little bit later. The Importance of Oxygenating Blood Plasma So, number one, it causes this anti-inflammatory reaction inside these inflamed capillaries to reopen them. But it also does something really amazing that he discovered is when you’re doing this procedure, ⁓ it causes the oxygen to not just attach to our red blood cells like it always does, but it also saturates our blood plasma, which is this clearish liquid that our red blood cells ride on. And Our blood plasma is a thousand times thinner than a red blood cell. So if you imagine these blockages, red blood cells are not getting through, but obviously the blood plasma can get through as long as it’s like as thin as water. So as long as there’s any opening there, and it can immediately deliver oxygen downstream, both to cause an anti-inflammatory impact in the capillaries, but also to all those cells that are starving. And so you can obviously, as we’re talking through this, you can kind of see how this fits folks who are dealing with various different strokes ⁓ and how that can help them as well. BIll Gasiamis (20:32) Yeah. Okay. I d before we spoke I did a little bit of research and found ⁓ as well that there’s some there’s a lot of relevant data with regards to oxygen and ⁓ increasing the oxygenation in the blood. you so tell me a little bit about oxygen. I I don’t understand exactly what that is. I’ve heard of people becoming ill. Because of too much oxygen, ⁓ ill because of not enough oxygen. So what is what what is becoming ill of too much oxygen and why is ninety nine percent saturation not that? Brad Pitzele (21:18) Yeah, yeah. ⁓ good question. So oxygen toxicity can occur if you get too much oxygen under certain circumstances. So if you’re in a hyperbaric chamber too long, it can cause oxygen toxicity. And basically that’s when oxygen gets trapped in your bloodstream and it can’t get out. and You can actually get it without hyperbaric. So hyperbaric is oxygen under pressure. You can get it at normal barracks. So if you were just sitting on the couch breathing oxygen, you could eventually get oxygen toxicity. Now, it would take over twenty-four hours. So if you were breathing just pure oxygen, no exercise, sitting on your couch for 24 plus hours, it starts to get into the risky zone. When you’re doing exercise with oxygen, that’s actually one of the cool things about it that because of the synergies of exercise and oxygen, it’s impossible to get oxygen toxicity for two reasons. one is that reservoir is only a thousand liters. it’s not a high enough dose that you could get a oxygen toxicity. It is a massive dose, it’s about the same amount of oxygen you take in in a day, and you can take it in in 15 minutes, but it’s not more than. And the second reason, even if we could make our reservoir 10x, 100x, and you could exercise nonstop, you still couldn’t get oxygen toxicity because when you’re exercising, your body produces a massive amount of carbon dioxide gas. And that goes into our bloodstream and it increases pressure in our circulatory system. And that actually forces the oxygen out of the circulatory system and into the cells. So it works as a protectant as well from oxygen toxicity. So that’s oxygen toxicity. It’s a real risk. ⁓ Most of the time it’s a very controllable risk. You know, if you’re doing hyperbaric, they’re gonna keep you in there for so long so that you’re not gonna be at risk generally. ⁓ if you’re assigned to do oxygen while you’re stationary at home, they have protocols to make sure you’re not doing it, you know, twenty-eight hours nonstop sort of thing. ⁓ or they have you wear a cannula where where you’re also taking in air and it’s diluting it. ⁓ and in exercised oxygen therapy, it’s not really possible because of the massive amount of carbon dioxide. ⁓ now, not enough oxygen. So if you if you want to measure your oxygen in your blood, the way they normally do it is a device called the pulse oximeter. You can get one for 20 bucks off Amazon. What it does is it looks at how much how many of your red blood cells are saturated with oxygen. And what you’re gonna find in most folks. Is it’s close to a hundred percent. It’s ninety-eight percent, it’s ninety-six percent, ninety-seven percent. ⁓ there’s not a lot of room in our blood for more oxygen. So that’s why it’s important that ewak can actually oxygenate our blood plasma. The same with hyperbaric does the exact same thing, it oxygenates our blood plasma. So BIll Gasiamis (24:26) Okay. I think before you go on, that’s the key ingredient. It’s oxygenating the plasma as well. Where where previously you’ve got let’s say ninety seven, ninety eight percent saturation of your red blood cells. What we’re doing is adding that little bit of extra oxygen into the space where the plasma is. That’s kind of the key difference. Brad Pitzele (24:36) Yes. And there’s two reasons why it’s important. so normally, just for comparison, you and I sitting here, maybe 2% of all the oxygen in our blood is in our plasma, so it’s not very much. ⁓ but under these conditions of IWAT and hyperbaric, we can saturate that blood plasma. And it’s important for two reasons. One, obviously, it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood, but that’s the more minor one. The more major one is that the blood plasma can get into let’s just say the nooks and crannies, smaller spaces in our body where inflammation is blocking off access of red blood cells to downstream cells. And so it can deliver a dose of oxygen where it normally is not able to get. BIll Gasiamis (25:40) You you’ve spent a lot of time on this topic by the sound of things. ⁓ and that’s really awesome. So before we talk about how to actually use a device, how to get a device, how to how to behave while you’re using a device, I wanna understand like how Oxygen and Mitochondrial Function Brad Pitzele (25:52) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (26:02) How you notice the difference in yourself? Because a lot of people ask me what I did in my own stroke recovery. And Brad’s experience is going to be different from the stroke survivor’s experience. My experience was ⁓ I’ve got nothing from the doctors other than let’s monitor your bleed, let’s give you brain surgery. I mean, that’s not nothing. That’s amazing. Like I’m very Brad Pitzele (26:05) Yeah. Yes. BIll Gasiamis (26:31) Grateful for all of that. That removed the the blood vessel that was leaking that was going to potentially kill me. ⁓ so the immediate risk was gone. And then what what I mean I I got nothing is the specialists did their specialty and then I got nothing because they don’t do nutrition, they don’t do exercise, they don’t do meditation, they do brain surgery. And it’s really important for stroke survivors to understand that when you go to a doctor, a neurologist, whoever. Brad Pitzele (26:55) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (27:00) They do a specific thing, and once they’ve done it, they can’t do anything else. And you need to get over the fact that you ⁓ might feel disappointment at the at that I don’t know where to go next, and they don’t know where to send you. Okay, they’re not trained and they cannot legally send you elsewhere. That’s why you’re kind of on your own. So I did meditation, I did nutrition, I did all this kind of stuff and Brad Pitzele (27:16) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (27:27) Somebody who’s interviewed you is Dave Asprey. I would I’ve been following Dave Asprey and a whole bunch of other guys ⁓ probably since around 2012, 2013. And what I learned was how do I reduce the inflammation in my brain? And I had that one area of inquiry, the one area of inquiry that I could personally impact positively by taking out inflammatory foods from my diet. And before that it was, you know, ⁓ processed white bread, it was alcohol, it was cigarettes, ⁓ it was all the stuff that you get in a packet that doesn’t really help to nourish the body, right? So I went back to basics. We’ll call it just for the simplicity of the explanation, we’ll call it protein, ⁓ vegetables and basic carbohydrates like rice or potato. And then what I found was that inflammation decreased, and that was a game changer in how I experienced my brain. And it was a game changer in how quickly I improved neurologically. But just so that people know, it wasn’t the be all end all, it didn’t remove the damaged cells that still are in my head that mean I experienced my the left side of my body in a completely different way than my right side. I’ve got numbness, proprioception issues. I’ve got ⁓ tingling, I’ve got burning, I’ve got ⁓ spasticity, you know, the muscles are tight. So all that stuff is still there. But I have a better experience of the rest of my body and brain because of the things that I took out. But what I didn’t have was the link between exercise, which I do, light exercise, because I’m a stroke survivor. I can’t. use the left side of my body like I used to. so I would do exercise ⁓ like riding an electric bike because it’s easier to pedal, like walking and like doing very light weights at the gym. ⁓ but I didn’t have that oxygen part of the the therapy. And that’s kind of why I interviewed the guys about hyperbaric to understand how oxygen supports how mimicking i a hypoxic brain in the chamber supports ⁓ so how how does like what’s the next part like how does that support the brain to heal let’s give stroke survivors an understanding so that they can kind of grasp that I know we spoke about how oxygen gets into the ⁓ into the red blood cell we spoke about how it gets into the plasma but like Brad Pitzele (30:15) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (30:20) Why is that the next step? Brad Pitzele (30:21) What’s it too? Yeah. It’s a good question. I think you’re right. I you know, we don’t I will say we don’t try to go out and pitch like exercise with oxygen therapy is a panacea or it’s everything for everyone. Even the name of our company, ⁓ one thousand roads, is about paying homage to everyone’s own healing journey and recognizing everyone’s unique journey. So I’ll say that, but So I’ll say that, but what I found about oxygen was in IWA in particular. What was fascinating to me was for me when I was dealing with Lyme disease, which similar to folks who are dealing with the stroke, there’s a variety of different symptoms and s from different causes. And I was trying to treat all these things with different protocols, different supplements that and I found that when I started digging into oxygen, I was shocked at how many of them came back to it. So when you have A stroke, often there’s a lot of ⁓ emerging research about mitochondrial dysfunction. And this is interestingly, mitochondrial dysfunction. Now ten years ago when I was researching it, no one heard of it or cared about it. And it’s really burst onto the scene because you’re gonna find it ⁓ At the heart of so many chronic health conditions, right? ⁓ you’re gonna it’s actually they’re looking at it in cancers, ⁓ chronic illnesses of all sorts, Alzheimer’s, all sorts of cognitive and ⁓ autoimmune conditions, etc., etc. So ⁓ you have this disrupted mitochondria, right? So there was a period of time when your cells were not getting enough energy, whether it was a hemorrhagic stroke and Blood wasn’t being delivered to those cells, so no nutrients, no oxygen, or an ischemic stroke where they were just cut off ⁓ because of a clot or whatnot. And so they were not getting nutrients. In each of these cases, what happens immediately when the cell runs out of oxygen, like I was talking about that brownout, it goes from aerobic respiration to anaerobic respiration. And anaerobic respiration, ⁓ it’s It only can produce 5% of the energy as aerobic. So the cell is in a low energy state, which is the first problem, which means it doesn’t have energy to repair, it doesn’t have energy to take out the trash, detoxify. so it’s kind of stuck. But also ⁓ it creates a lot of metabolic waste. So it creates lactic acid, it creates free radicals, all these things produce more inflammation, like you were talking about. So Now we’ve got these mitochondria, which are dysfunctional. They don’t have the energy to repair. They don’t have the energy to take out all these dead cells or ⁓ you know, all these other byproducts of the immune system and the natural kind of response to this damage, which then leaves more of it hanging around to produce more damage, and they’re producing more damage themselves. So it’s kind of like this swirl, and it’s ⁓ you know, it’s a downward swirl, if you will. ⁓ so When you can re-oxygenate the mitochondria, the first thing you’re doing is you’re giving them the energy to do whatever it is they need to do. ⁓ and that can be the immediate like feeling sharper, like, ⁓ I feel like I can get my thoughts together quicker. ⁓ it can be, ⁓ I feel like I’m more in control of my emotions. And I I don’t feel like sometimes I have a disproportionate emotional response to something. It can be I I don’t have that brain fog. ⁓ you know, that sort of thing. Or I literally have energy. So our brain actually consumes like 20% of all the oxygen in our body. And it’s only like two percent of the mass. So it’s like punching 10x its weight, right? So when your body starts running low on oxygen, it starts conserving. And the one of the things it tells you to do is like cool it, like stop using your muscles. You’re tired. You need to just sit there and veg out. BIll Gasiamis (34:06) Mm-hmm. Brad Pitzele (34:27) while our mitochondria try to catch up. And so that’s often that chronic fatigue that folks with a variety of health conditions, including stroke, feel, which is their bodies like, stop using energy, we don’t have enough. We need to redeploy it for something else more pressing. And so When you can reestablish normal oxygenation, it improves energy. ⁓ it improves sleep, it improves memory. and the the cells have energy to start repairing and detoxifying. ⁓ and then obviously I always think it’s cool because we’re pairing it with oc with exercise. And there’s so much research on the benefits of exercise. You mentioned it was so important, Bill, in in your healing journey. And you know, we know how important exercise is for a stroke survivor. Well, now we’re pairing it with oxygen and we’re using that exercise to catapult more of that oxygen around the body through the circulatory system while your blood vessels are dilated and opening up. So if you’re still dealing with blockages in your microcirculation, which most stroke survivors are. You’re opening them as wide as they they naturally can at that moment, and that’s when we’re feeding more oxygen to them. So it works it kind of hand in hand in that respect. BIll Gasiamis (35:48) All right. Now one glitch. Stroke survivors often are struggling to get into the physical recovery, right? Because the body goes offline, one of the legs doesn’t work, one of the arms doesn’t work. It’s a real challenge, right? So how how can we benefit from that even though we are at just after the acute phase where there is not a lot of capability for Brad Pitzele (36:00) Yes. It’s perfect. Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (36:17) physicality and I I say that so that the stroke survivors listening know that what I’m leading to is that early on it’s probably harder to do ⁓ physical therapy, exercise, et cetera. But again, with time and hope, all of those things can improve. Right. So I I wanna put that out there for stroke survivors, but also like it’s a can it’s a it’s a constraint. Brad Pitzele (36:48) Yeah. And you know, because a lot of our customers are dealing with chronic illness, this is a question that’s not uncommon is like, yeah, but I can’t I’m not out here to run a mile, Brad. I’m like eighty years old and I’m sick or whatever it is. The really ⁓ the really cool thing about ⁓ Ewatt is that it will meet you where you are at. So there is something all of us can do. The goal is to increase your heart rate and your circulation. Cost and Accessibility of Oxygen Therapy Devices and breathe the oxygen. So there’s a few ways you can do it. you know, it doesn’t have to be banging it out on a treadmill trying to get your seven minute mile. ⁓ you don’t need to do that. We have folks, you know, depending on where they are, you can start with slow walking on a treadmill. You can start with calisthenics. You can start with stretching. ⁓ gentle aerobics in your living room. You can start by, you know, lifting weights. You could be sitting and lifting weights with the the hand that’s not. We have folks, and this is probably not so much for ⁓ stroke survivors, but maybe jumping on a ⁓ a rebounder, like a little trampoline if you’ve got the balance one with the handle. ⁓ we have people using under-the-desk pedal bikes, the ones you can get for $49 on Amazon while you’re sitting. BIll Gasiamis (38:03) Beautiful. Brad Pitzele (38:04) while you’re sitting in a chair. And then for the folks who can’t do any of that, we have we even have them doing what I call passive Ewatt, which is they will breathe the oxygen while they get in like a an infrared ⁓ sauna blanket. So infrared sauna will increase your heart rate. And so you will get some benefit out of it. And what normally happens, the the really cool thing about exercising with oxygen is The first thing folks notice, the very first benefit most folks notice when they start doing is the exercise is easier. So I always describe this like if you were ⁓ jogging on a treadmill at, I don’t know, pick a number, you know, four miles an hour and you put the mask on, you wouldn’t feel like you were getting the same exercise at four miles an hour. You you crank it up to four and a half, and then later you crank it up more. And Your endurance actually improves much more quickly than if you were just doing exercise alone. ⁓ and there’s a ton of actually research on you know Olympic athletes using it for performance enhancement, which is not what we’re using for in this, but it’s kind of a nice little side effect. So we have folks who come to us who who are out of condition. We’re not talking about the physical disabilities, but out of condition, we’re like, I couldn’t do. And they’re shocked at what they’re doing and they come back and tell us in three months, look what I’m doing, sort of thing. ⁓ But it will meet you where you’re at. So if you want to do passive Ewatt, you can do that for a while as you’re working and as you start to feel better. Then maybe you’re using the under desk pedal bike. And as you’re getting your balance back and feeling better, maybe it’s a a real stationary bike later or walking on a treadmill and so on and so forth. ⁓ the goal isn’t to bust hump and like try to, you know, get a new record. As a matter of fact, I find that for most folks that sets you back. You wanna kind of you wanna do within an envelope that you’re comfortable with because If we work out too hard, also we set ourselves back because in most chronic health conditions and in stroke, additionally, we talked about this fatigue that’s due to an energy deficit. So if you go out there and overwork, you’re just putting your body in more of a deficit and potentially putting it in more of an inflammatory environment. And we’re trying to do this at a level that’s in you know anti-inflammatory and helping you recover. BIll Gasiamis (40:30) I love that. I love your whole explanation. So in my what I was hoping was you were gonna say that I could just sit there and almost do nothing ⁓ as a stroke survivor, where I’m completely in in just, you know, like week three of the acute after the acute phase, and fatigue is a massive issue and energy is a massive issue, and I’m barely able to stay awake, ⁓ and all of that stuff. And then ⁓ you could do just I hope you I was hoping you were gonna say, But you said the equivalent of ⁓ chair yoga, you know, where all I had to do was just move an arm or move a leg and do something just to get me physically going and then it would benefit. That’s what I love about it. The under-the-leg pedal bike, ⁓ under-the-desk pedal bike is one of the best things because you can strap in your leg with the deficits if you have a leg that has deficits, and you can do all the or the majority of the pedaling with the other leg, which is strapped in. Brad Pitzele (41:07) Mm. BIll Gasiamis (41:29) And you don’t you’re not gonna fall over ’cause you sit in in a chair. ⁓ probably you’re doing it inside your house so the the temperature, the weather is always perfect and ⁓ and you don’t have to door for long, right? You only have to door for a few minutes to start with. Brad Pitzele (41:45) And you’re pulling that other leg around and it’s starting to fire inside here and rebuild those connections. And and as you know, exercise increases ⁓ brain drive neurotrophic factor, which is a growth factor in our brain for BIll Gasiamis (41:51) Mm. Brad Pitzele (42:00) neuroplasticity. So you’re getting you’re getting all of these benefits. So you to your point, for someone who’s if it’s my right leg’s not working and I’m strapped in and my left leg’s doing it, my right leg is firing and it’s firing those neurons at the exact time you have that B D N F as it’s called. So BIll Gasiamis (42:17) BDNF’s amazing. And I also interviewed ⁓ recently a gentleman who ⁓ had spoken about ⁓ Jack Clifford on episode 402 who spoke about kind of ⁓ a protocol that enables you to regenerate blood vessels around the area that’s injured ⁓ to increase the oxygenation and the blood flow ⁓ to potentially those areas where ⁓ brain is offline, not dead. ⁓ so all of these things, ⁓ the previous episode that I recorded with Jack, your episode right now, like all are things that you can do that support brain health, brain recovery, ⁓ overcoming all the some of the challenges that stroke causes. And what I love about this specifically is that you can do it from your house. and you don’t have to go anywhere, but there is a cost. So let’s talk about the cost a little bit because I I want to mention it because of the massive difference to hyperbaric, which can cost up to sixty grand if you go on the right protocol. And ⁓ that’s unattainable for most people, let alone a stroke survivor who just lost their ability to earn ⁓ and may not have sixty grand to splash. Brad Pitzele (43:48) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (43:48) ⁓ so what is the cost of getting a machine, setting it up and putting it in your house? Brad Pitzele (43:54) Yeah. So we sell two different machines. ⁓ we have one machine that’s eighteen hundred and ninety-nine dollars and the other one that’s twenty-four ninety-nine. ⁓ that’s everything you need to get going other than the exercise equipment. and the machines last a long, long time. I think I You know, I think we actually we’ve been in business since 2018 and we had our first customer come back and tell us they wore out their machine like this year. So I have to stop saying we’ve never had one wore wear out yet. So we’ve had one. ⁓ so it it’s one of I think that’s one of the things that’s great about it is it’s something you can do in your house. It’s something that doesn’t take a lot of time. When I was dealing with my chronic health issue, I was joke around about the ceremonies of counting pills and doing this modality and doing that. And they all in stroke survivors, I think, recognize the same thing. It starts to crowd out your life. And then eventually you kind of throw your hands up. You’re like, I it might be helping, but I just don’t have four hours a day for all this stuff. Like I just I need to go on and and live my life too. So it’s something that ⁓ it’s 15 minutes. You do it three to five times a week in your home. ⁓ it’s a one time expense and then it’s you know, it’s something you’ll have for many, many years. BIll Gasiamis (45:12) I love it. Where are you located? Brad Pitzele (45:15) We’re in a Dallas, Texas area. BIll Gasiamis (45:17) Okay. And are these things easy to get and distribute throughout the United States and other places in the world? I don’t know I’ve never heard of it before. So are there other people around who who sell a product that’s similar or can you access them easily? Brad Pitzele (45:35) Well, we do ship worldwide. ⁓ we ship with US power, so people get a power converter we’ve sold to the UK, to Australia, to all over Europe, Asia, ⁓ South America, ⁓ and of course across North America as well. So ⁓ they’re readily accessible. Kind of our mission was You know, when the doctor asked me if I’d make him first patients, I I I I thought about what you were saying about how like spending sixty grand to find out if something’s gonna work. And I felt like I was taking advantage a lot when I was very ill. So we wanted to make something that was accessible to people who are chronically ill. They might not have the ability to earn money. They’re on a fixed in like I have a I guess a deep personal experience and empathy there sort of thing. So ⁓ that’s yeah. So we ship worldwide. BIll Gasiamis (46:27) Yeah. If somebody wanted to reach out to you just to get more information, to have a chat with you, to look at your website, where would they go? Brad Pitzele (46:35) They would go to 1000roads.com slash stroke recovery. We do. And you can find it at the bottom of that webpage, but it’s 1000 Roads HQ. BIll Gasiamis (46:42) And you have a YouTube channel. Okay. What kind of ⁓ things can people find on the YouTube channel? Brad Pitzele (46:56) you can find everything about protocols, benefits, ⁓ how to use it. ⁓ we hit have some customer testimonials and parts of that. ⁓ just talking about the science of it, people’s experience with it, et cetera, et cetera, different use reasons people use it. BIll Gasiamis (47:17) I think it’s very important to bring information like this to stroke survivors so that they can access things in their own home that’s going to make their life better. I wrote a book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, for the explicit reason to give people like a path forward, a journey forward as to how to ⁓ s how to kind of obtain the silver lining in stroke recovery. And when I wrote it ⁓ in 2018, when I started writing it, something like that, 2018, 2019, I was lacking a lot of the extra pieces that I could put into ⁓ the mindset chapter, for example, or the exercise chapter, or, you know, the nutrition chapter. And In the last five or six years, I’ve been picking up those pieces to sort of attach to those chapters because they’re really relevant. And with the exercise chapter, I think this protocol was the one thing that was missing because I made the point of how important exercise was. I didn’t make the point of how you can exercise and get more bang for your buck during that exercise by Increasing the amount of oxygen that you were getting into your ⁓ bloodstream. How would I have known that if I hadn’t come across the science, which I hadn’t? Plus, there’s only so much you can put in each chapter, but this is the perfect addition. Like, and I love it. So I can go on and on about how much I think this is amazing. Brad, I really ⁓ want to thank you for reaching out and joining me on the podcast. Thanks for the work that you do. I’m glad that you’ve been able to get your health back and now you’re helping other people. Brad Pitzele (49:06) Thank you so much, Bill. I appreciate you having me on. BIll Gasiamis (49:08) Well, that’s it for another episode of the Recovery After Stroke podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Might be worth listening to it again. The science here is worth sitting with, oxygenating the blood plasma, reopening inflamed microcapillaries, giving mitochondria what they need to shift out of that low energy state. And the fact that it can be done at home at a fraction of the cost of hyperbaric oxygen therapy makes it worth knowing about. If you want to learn more, or explore the equipment, head to 1000Roads.com Stroke Recovery. Brad has arranged a discount for listeners of this show of between one and 500 dollars, depending on the package you choose. This episode pairs well with the episode 402 with Jack Clifford, which covers a protocol for regenerating blood vessels around the injured area of the brain. The two conversations complement each other. Worth going back to if you haven’t heard it yet. Now, if this episode was useful, please share it with someone who could benefit. And my book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became, the Best Thing That Happened, is available at recoveryafterstroke dot com slash book. And if you’d like to support the show financially, I would love it if you could. You can go and do that via patreon.com/slash recovery after stroke. I’m Bill Garciamas. Thanks for listening. See you on the next episode. The post Brad Pitzele – How Exercise With Oxygen Therapy Brings Hyperbaric-Style Benefits Home appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Ped & Burk bring you a memory filled episode. We kick things off by doing even worse in the 3-2-1 game, then Adam quizzes Burk on the top 5 American pizza chains. Number 5 might surprise you! The boys reminisce on pool days and swimming lessons before Burk brings us this week's perfect song. In the meat, Mm!, of the episode we do a draft of PBS shows! The fellas grew up without cable but who needs it with the lineup that PBS provided! We close the show by igniting our sense of smell from the 90s. Love y'all. Hut Hut!

In this episode of the Meaningful People Podcast, Nachi Gordon sits down with Rabbi Tzadok Katz, a shadchan with over 23 years of experience, for one of the most honest and entertaining conversations about shidduchim you'll ever hear. From speed dating and picture sharing to the stigma facing working boys and the pressure that's been built into the system, Rabbi Katz pulls no punches about what's actually broken, and what's working better than people think. The conversation covers everything from how technology has completely transformed the shadchan's job, to why girls are maturing faster than boys and what needs to change, to the halacha of sharing information and how buried details may be behind most early divorces. Rabbi Katz also shares his philosophy on excitement, readiness, and why "getting the job done" is more complicated than it sounds. Whether you're a single, working with singles, or just fascinated by how the system actually works behind the scenes, this episode is a must-listen. This episode was made possible thanks to our sponsors: ► PZ Deals Download the app and never pay full price again! https://app.pz.deals/install/mpp _________________ ► Colel Chabad Pushka App The easiest way to give Tzedaka https://pushkapp.cc/meaningful _________________ ► EL AL From the Hebrew announcements to the Israeli atmosphere onboard, flying EL AL feels like Israel before you even land. With nonstop flights to Israel and Jewish comfort from takeoff to landing, there's nothing like hearing: "ברוכים הבאים לישראל." Book your next flight with EL AL: https://www.elal.com/eng/usa?utm_source=meaningful&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=gcny_incoming_usa&cid=s:el%7Cm:what%7Ccp:gcny%7Cct:incoming%7Cau:usa _________________ ► Ness Vacation Homes EDEN GARDENS' LARGEST LUXURY HOME COLLECTION Handpicked, high-end homes available exclusively through Ness. OPTIONAL PROGRAM-LEVEL PESACH EXPERIENCE Upgrade your stay with a complete A–Z Pesach setup, including kitchen preparation, catered meals, and fully arranged details by Glatt Gourmet. https://nessvacationhomes.com/ _________________ ► Fine Toys and Gifts Have family in Israel? Send them something they'll actually love. Fine Toys and Gifts delivers American brand toys and gifts anywhere in Eretz Yisroel — LEGO, Playmobil, dolls, board games, and more — with flat rate shipping for just $12. https://www.finetoysandgifts.com _________________ ► Chasdei Lev Chasdei Lev sends truckloads of food and goods to thousands of Rebbes families across 27 communities nationwide. They're in the middle of a major campaign to expand their warehouse, and they need your help to get there. https://www.charidy.com/ChasdeiLev?utm_source=MM&utm_medium=podcast _________________ ► UJA UJA is at the center of Long Island's Jewish community with the shared purpose of strengthening our Jewish future. https://ujafedny.org/five-towns _________________ ► 12 Stones Realty Discover 12 Stones — a luxury private home community in the breathtaking Jerusalem Hills, combining nature, serenity, and elevated living just minutes from Jerusalem. Spacious homes, stunning views, and a one-of-a-kind family atmosphere. https://12-stones.co.il/landing/?utm_source=MPP _________________ ► Town Appliance Visit the website or message them on WhatsApp https://www.townappliance.com https://bit.ly/Townappliance_whatsapp  

To become a follower of Jesus, visit: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/MeetJesus  (NOT a Morning Mindset resource)   ⇒ TODAY'S DAILY SPONSOR: Alex, listener to the MM.   You can sponsor a daily episode of the Morning Mindset too, by going to https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/DailySponsor ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ TODAY'S SCRIPTURE: Matthew 11:11–15 - Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. [12] From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. [13] For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, [14] and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. [15] He who has ears to hear, let him hear. (ESV) ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FINANCIALLY SUPPORT THE MORNING MINDSET: (not tax-deductible) -- Become a monthly partner: https://mm-gfk-partners.supercast.com/ -- Underwrite one daily episode: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/daily-sponsor/ -- Give one-time: https://give.cornerstone.cc/careygreen -- Venmo: @CareyNGreen ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FOREIGN LANGUAGE VERSIONS OF THIS PODCAST: Subscribe to the SPANISH version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Spanish Subscribe to the CHINESE version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Chinese ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ CONTACT: Carey@careygreen.com   

In this follow-up to their discussion of the Parable of the Ten Virgins, Jesse and Tony make a critical discovery about Matthew 25:13 that fundamentally changes how we should read Christ's eschatological parables. The command to "watch therefore" isn't primarily about staying awake—it's about preparedness for Christ's return. This episode explores the grammatical and theological connections between the Parable of the Ten Virgins and the Parable of the Talents, revealing how Matthew 25:13 functions as a hinge verse that binds these parables into a unified teaching on eschatological readiness. The hosts demonstrate how modern chapter divisions and translation choices can sometimes obscure the organic flow of Christ's teaching, and why understanding these connections matters for Christian living today. Key Takeaways Matthew 25:13 is a hinge verse, not an endpoint. The Greek grammatical structure (using post-positive connectors "therefore" and "for") links verses 1-13 forward to the Parable of the Talents, not just backward to the Ten Virgins. Sleep wasn't the problem in the parable. Both the wise and foolish virgins fell asleep. The issue was preparedness—having oil ready before the bridegroom's arrival, not staying physically awake. "Watch" means preparedness, not wakefulness. The better translation of the Greek word emphasizes alert readiness and preparation rather than literal sleeplessness. The Parable of the Talents explains what preparedness looks like. Christ intentionally connected these parables to show that watchfulness manifests in faithful stewardship and fruitful living. Christ himself made these connections. This isn't just Matthew's editorial arrangement—Jesus deliberately taught these parables together as a unified discourse on eschatological readiness. Sanctifying grace is non-transferable. The wise virgins couldn't share their oil because saving grace and the Spirit's indwelling cannot be borrowed or transferred between people. Eschatological ignorance is divinely ordained. Not knowing the day or hour prevents us from delaying obedience until the last moment, which was precisely the foolish virgins' error. Key Concepts The Grammatical Evidence for Connection The discovery that transformed this discussion centers on how Greek post-positive particles function. Both "therefore" (οὖν) in verse 13 and "for" (γάρ) in verse 14 cannot grammatically stand as the first word in a Greek sentence—they must connect to what precedes them. This means verse 13 isn't simply concluding the parable of the virgins; it's simultaneously introducing the parable of the talents. English translations that insert paragraph breaks between these verses may inadvertently suggest a harder separation than exists in the original text. When Christ says "watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour, for it will be like a man going on a journey," He's creating a seamless logical progression: the reason for watchfulness is eschatological uncertainty, and the nature of that watchfulness is illustrated by what follows in the talents parable. Preparedness vs. Wakefulness in Translation Some English translations render Matthew 25:13 as "stay awake" or "keep alert," emphasizing the sleep imagery from the preceding parable. However, this creates a logical problem: if falling asleep was the sin, then both groups of virgins sinned, since the text explicitly states "they all became drowsy and slept" (v. 5). The better understanding recognizes that the Greek word (γρηγορέω) encompasses a broader semantic range including vigilance, preparedness, and readiness—not just physical wakefulness. The wise virgins weren't praised for staying awake; they were praised for having secured oil before the bridegroom's arrival. This preparedness enabled them to respond appropriately when the moment came, regardless of whether they had been sleeping. Translating with an emphasis on sleep therefore misses Christ's point and artificially seals verse 13 off from the explanation that follows. The Perseverance of the Saints in Action This parable sequence reveals an often-overlooked dimension of the doctrine of perseverance: believers must actually do the persevering. While the Holy Spirit enables, empowers, and ordains our perseverance, He doesn't persevere instead of us—He causes us to persevere. The wise virgins' preparedness wasn't passive; they actively obtained oil before it was needed. They prepared for both the bridegroom's arrival and the potential delay. This illustrates that Christian preparedness isn't anxious vigilance or frantic last-minute effort, but the steady, Spirit-enabled work of sanctification, growing in grace, abiding in Christ, and maintaining readiness over the long haul. The Parable of the Talents then unpacks what this looks like practically: faithful stewardship, productive kingdom work, and diligent use of what God has entrusted to us during the time of waiting. Memorable Quotes The difference between foolishness and wisdom in the first parable is not whether or not the virgins fell asleep. It's whether or not they were prepared for the eventual coming of the bridegroom. - Tony Arsenal When God's people take to see and request his eminent and transcendent power in the lives of somebody else through intercessory prayer, a special bond is created that is very real. - Jesse Schwamb Christ himself has strung these different parables together... Christ was the one who decided that the parable of the talents was a proper explainer for the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 495 of the Reformed to Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:00:14] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:00:18] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. So sometimes the episodes just seem to write themselves, and I say that of course, tongue in cheek from my full providential register. But in the last episode, we went over with great detail, the parable of the 10 virgins, or the 10 bridesmaids found in Matthew 25. And I think we did all the things that we were supposed to do, like contractually. We made really good oil puns. We talked about Petras song, midnight Oil. We talked about 10 bridesmaids, five Ys, five foolish. They're all waiting for the bridegroom who is late because he operates on divine timing. The foolish five run out of oil and begged the five whys to share theirs. The five whys decline, because sanctifying grace is non-transferrable. This is not a potluck. We went through all of that stuff and then what happened is we turned off the microphones and somehow you and I started a, a new conversation about this thing still. And we thought there's more to say and we didn't even expect it. And incidentally, it all hinges on a single word. Yeah. So we're gonna come back to that on this episode because we couldn't help ourselves. And I say that because we couldn't help ourselves. We literally kept talking about this long after the episode had ended. So we wanted to bring it back and it's something new. I think that you and I were really pondering that's gonna be really, really, really good. Yeah. But the other thing that's really good is either affirming with something or denying against something that's the part of the conversation where we either affirm with something that we think is underrated, really exceptional, that we wanna recommend or we deny against something that's just not that great. So Tony, what have you got for us today?  [00:02:04] Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna phrase this in a very particular way, of course, and then I'll explain why I'm phrasing it that way. I'm starting. Great. Um, I am affirming adult baptism upon a profession of faith, and I say it in that particular way. Sure, of course. Um, because I often hear, and I've heard, I mean, I've heard Presbyterian pastors say this, um, I've heard, heard it said that Presbyterians do cradle baptism too. And, uh, and sort of like, sometimes it's kind of in like a, I'm trying to like build a bridge with a, a cradle Baptist. Sure. Um, I actually object to that because the, the basis on which an adult is baptized in a Westminster covenant theology framework is different than the basis, uh, on which a believer is baptized under a traditional Baptist credo, Baptist position. Right. So I'm affirming adult. Profession of faith, baptism or adult baptism upon a profession of faith. Um, and the reason I'm saying that is because my wife and I had this opportunity this morning to go to another church to visit, uh, a friend of ours. It's actually a friend of our son's, which is crazy to say. He's four years old. A friend of our son's from school, his mother, um, who is a Christian, um, but had never been baptized, was being baptized at her church today. And so we got an opportunity to go to their church. It's a church we've been to before. It was not like a brand new church or any, like, super far away. It's a church we've been to before. Um, so we got to go to church and then we went over to the local sort of like swimming hole. Uh, like there's this little, uh, like recreational area called stores pond, I'm sure. Just I know you're familiar with it. Oh,  [00:03:38] Jesse Schwamb: yeah.  [00:03:39] Tony Arsenal: Um, and they did sort of like a testimony ceremony and, uh, all of the baptizes, I don't know if that's the right word, but all of those being baptized. Uh, I would normally call them catechumens, but I don't think that actually that applies here. But all of those being baptized, uh, got up and gave their testimony. There was eight people being baptized, which was fun to see. Um, of course all adults. This is a Baptist, um, a Baptist church that we were visiting. And then we walked over to the, over to the lake and they dunked him in there. And, uh, it was really great to see. And the reason that I'm affirming adult baptism upon a profession of faith, um, uh, is because it's really quite beautiful, right? I think we've, we just recently talked about this, um, and I'm sure we'll talk about it again at some point in the future, but we just recently talked about a baby baptism at my church that, uh, is beautiful in its own right for its own reasons, and it's got its own theological, uh, underpinnings and theological elegance to it. But there's also something just very beautiful about an adult who either has come to faith, um, and I don't, I don't know, um, this woman very well, like I, she's another mom at, um, at Agie school. And so our kids go to school together and so we interact with her periodically at like drop off and other times and they've been over to the house. I don't know her, well, I heard enough of her testimony today to know that she was kind of a nominal Christian. Uh, and they actually started going to church because in order to bring their son to the school that, um, they wanted to go to, which is, uh, the school that my son goes to, the school that your father teaches at, um. You have to have at least one parent needs to be a Christian, needs to be a regular attender, a regular member of a church. And so they, they joined a church, um, to be able to fulfill that requirement. And either, and, and again, I wasn't, I was watching the kids, um, including her son while she was doing this. So I was only kind of hearing with one ear. So either she was a nominal Christian and was kind of like renewing her faith or she was coming to faith for the first time. I'm not sure. But in either case, she had not been baptized previously that I know of. I didn't, I mean, I guess maybe she was baptized as a baby or something, I don't know. But, um, she was being baptized today upon a sort of a new profession of faith or renewal of faith, and it's just very sweet to see. The emotional investment that occurs when someone is recognizing that God's promise is being sealed on them. Right. And I don't know that, I don't know that a lot of traditional Baptist, and this is a pretty like plain Jane Evangelical church. I'm not sure that a lot of evangelicals would really recognize or use that language. But I also think there's an intuitiveness to it that like this is a sign that God gives us. It's gotta be a sign of something. Right. Um, it's not, this was a church that brought sort of broadly Calvinistic part, the baptism of house was actually adopted or adapted from, uh, a modification of question, one of the Heidelberg catechism. So I warned my Presbyterian heart, um. So they're in a context where like covenantal language is not foreign to them, even if it's not the primary structure that they're using. But it was just very sweet and kind and a, a really encouraging, uh, opportunity for the body of Christ to gather. Uh, it was a little bit chilly. It was raining actually, and people, anybody, like everybody was out there and, and in the rain, most people didn't have umbrellas. And you know, people's hair is wet and their clothes are getting wet and nobody cares. Nobody is bothered by it because there is some baptism going on. There's some, uh, some new birth in a roundabout sense and some yes, uh, some, some signification of that new birth in a very direct sense. So that's what I'm affirming today. Adult baptism upon a profession of faith, uh, with an asterisk in a covenantal mode. That's, that's my very specific, very technical affirmation today.  [00:07:19] Jesse Schwamb: There's also something about that's just special. Again, it's not prescriptive, but there's something special about those open water baptisms too. Oh  [00:07:27] Tony Arsenal: yeah.  [00:07:28] Jesse Schwamb: I mean,  [00:07:29] Tony Arsenal: yeah, it was like super picturesque. It was like, I felt like I was on the Jordan with Town of Baptist, like the, like, it was like a, that classic like Baptist minister standing in the water, like it was very right. Very, uh, it looked staged, but I don't think it was, I think it just was actually this, that genuine scenario. [00:07:44] Jesse Schwamb: Right. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's like a beautiful thing. Like we're saying, oh, we're not trying to get into the particulars. It's just to appreciate, I think all of those details. I myself was baptized by my father in a pond and it was glorious. That was, that was special. And there was something about the occasion and the environment as well that was special to me in that. But you're right, like in that Baptist mode, I, I think when it's like properly administered, when it's really appreciated and the theology is rich and richly exemplified in what's happening there to, it's hard not to be moved, I think in the Christian heart, not to be warned by seeing somebody go down into the water to come up into this representation of new life in Christ. I think regardless of your convictions on this, it's hard not to be moved by the power of the spirits.  [00:08:25] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:08:26] Jesse Schwamb: And the sign and seal being delivered to God's people. In a profound way. So whether you're a Pado or Cradle Baptist, I think it really is difficult not to be moved. And especially in an environment like that, you love to see it, right? I mean, this idea of of, um, being able to come to the Lord because he's called you and whatever season of life that is, and then to follow an obedience into baptism is a glorious thing that we should all celebrate. So I love this idea of people on a chilly day in New Hampshire standing in the rain saying, give us the baptism. Like let, let us see the Holy Spirits working through the lives of the people in our midst. Let, we wanna be a part of that. We wanna celebrate that we're here for that.  [00:09:07] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It was just a, it was just a very, very sweet, like, I, like I said with, when we were talking about the, the baby baptism at my church, it's, there's just a, there's a sweetness to it. It's, yes. It's almost like, um, I've never been present for the birth of someone's child other than my own. Um, I've been at the hospital, uh, so meeting the family and the, the baby like very shortly after birth, but I've never been actually there. But there's something reminiscent to that, whether it's a baby being baptized or an adult being baptized where it's, it's just this sort of sweet moment of introduction to yes, this person with, um. To varying degrees depending on the theology, underlying baptism. But this person with a very real new identity that they have been given, yes, it's, it's, the old has gone, the new has come new creation in Christ. Um, whether, you know, I, I don't affirm baptism or regeneration, right? That's not a reformed position. But whether you have a, a position of some form of baptismal regeneration or baptismal efficacy, which is where kind of the, the reform tradition tends to fall, or even just, uh, I say just, I don't mean just in a peor sense, but like, even if, if what's going on is, is entirely a symbol that you know, is being applied to a person, there is a new sense of identity. There's a, there's a, a mark, a, a physical mark that it isn't persistent like circumcision, but it's a physical mark being applied, a visible mark being applied to, to the person claiming them as God's child. Um, and, and there's something very sweet and genuine. And, and to see, like, just to see, like I said, the, just the emotionality. And not a crass like emotionalism, but a genuine, heartfelt, emotional moment that someone is going through like a real, genuine emotion, um, is also not something we actually see that much in the world anymore, which is, it was nice to see. Anyway, I could, I could blather on about baptism and, and adult baptism and baby baptism and how great it is. Uh, God knew what he was doing and he, he gave us this beautiful symbol. So next time you have an opportunity to experience a adult baptism upon a profession of faith in a covenantal mode, uh, than you make sure you take advantage of that.  [00:11:14] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. You know what it's like for me and certainly I, baptism is way more profound, uh, than this example I'm about to give. But there's something within me that feels similarly or appreciates in a similar way when you're participating or just viewing a wedding. Yeah. Isn't there? There's that new identity. There's the vows and the covenants being made and promises being given and that that's just like a really meaningful, profound thing. And then like, you know, a thousand times, a million times, that is to participate or to witness again, baptism. And in my own church, which is Cradle Baptist, the one I attend, baptism, I'll say it this way in like this most trite way again, is like a super big deal. And one of the things I really appreciate is when that person, after they've given their testimony and they've gone down into the water and they come back up, our congregation goes like wild. Like just wild in celebration. Yeah. And at first I was like, wow, this. This seems like too much. Guys, can we take, can we take it down now? Just the Lord's day after all. And then I was with you in the sense of like, really, it's like we, you and I have talked so much about like the, the way in which you're trying to sometimes manufacture or theologians try to bring in some sense of emotionalism to kind of convey some kind of like, really, so I can demonstrate that I have a heartfelt and genuine commitment and love for God and Christ and you know, we can leave that as it is right now. Here is a place where I think that celebration is like just wholly and totally appropriate.  [00:12:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:12:36] Jesse Schwamb: And so I love that there's genuine enthusiasm and excitement over those things. And you're genuinely gonna get that more in the kind of traditional Baptist mode of this thing. I'm just saying celebrate where you celebrate, you know, get in where you fit in. Yeah. And so I think that your admonishment to us and affirmation there is really good. Um, totally about that. And all the better if you can do it in a, on a rainy day in a pond in New Hampshire. That sounds like a glorious spot.  [00:13:02] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it was interesting. It was good. It was a good time. Jesse, what do you got for us tonight? [00:13:07] Jesse Schwamb: I'm also gonna go affirmation, and I think we can file this one for me, under seeing the power of God in his, that power demonstrated in his transcendence and in his eminence. All our timing is gonna be off on this, but there's a certain compulsion I have to report back to everybody. And that reporting is really on my wife who did undergo some surgery this week. And I'm about to say a bunch of things medically so you can, I mean, there's nothing in here like grotesque, but I say that because somebody might be like, wow, you're seeing a lot of personal things. I have her permission to share all this. But of course some of you may remember, she spoke on the podcast, I dunno, like a half dozen episodes ago. Go back and listen to that. She talks about her medical journey, but she just had this big surgery. And here's the reason why I want to report back. I sense that when God's people take to see and request his eminent and transcendent power in the lives of somebody else through intercessory prayer, that like a special bond is created that is very real. So I think when somebody comes to their brothers and sisters and says. Would you pray for us? Would you pray for me? That's not just an act. I think of vulnerability. It's one of of truly seeking after what God desires for his people to help and to intercede for one another. And there's something special about that. And then equally special, and I think binding is when people say, yes, I will pray. And they make themselves committed to doing that. When that relationship is established, what I think is like mutual accountability, mutual yielding to one another, mutual submission. The lovely thing about that is I think there ought to be a reporting back. I really feel highly convicted about that because so many people, including those in the from Brotherhood hanging out in the Telegram, TT Me Reform Brotherhood, they have prayed for us. My church has prayed, my parents have prayed. You have prayed. So many people have prayed. And so my wife did go undergo an 11 hour surgery just two days ago. And uh, I can say that that surgery, the doctors, the three surgeons who are working as part of this interdisciplinary team, this multifactorial, multidisciplinary team, were able to accomplish everything that they wanted to do, which was a wild accomplishment. And it was more intense than they thought it was going to be. But I can say to you very, very clearly, very cogently that, uh, God was in the midst of all of these things in a mighty and powerful way. Now, I know people are prone to say that kind of thing. I'm saying it because it was all exceptionally real. Not only as I sat there waiting for the next updates in the waiting room, did I really sense a peace of God that I haven't felt before, even in all of my wife's previous surgeries, when this was the most uncertain, this was the biggest, the highest risk that was all real. But at the very end, and I'll, I'll spare a lot of the details, uh, but at the very, very end when the surgeon reported back to me all the things that they did, which included having to take out a portion of her bowel and stitch it back together again, because she had some endometriosis that had embedded itself in there and that was unknown to them. You can't see that stuff in an MRI and yet God ordained that the right surgeon, the right preparation would be in the room and ready to go if something like that occurred and it did. That she had a full hysterectomy, which we were praying that it would be lack laparoscopic because they were concerned they would not be able to do it that way. And God answered that prayer that she needed to have her ureter, the thing that connects your kidney to your bladder, that also was filled with endometriosis. It had to be resectioned and repaired. And it was that the end of all of this, what the main doctor kept saying to me was, we wanted to put your wife in a position where her anatomy would determine the outcome and that you would have all of the skilled persons in the room to provide the best care, the best expertise possible. And what he said to me at the end is, it's strange things just kept breaking her way. And I said, well, I can tell you why that is. That's because God was answering the prayers of so many people who are praying for her. And so I'm so thankful for everybody who's prayed. She's in a critical time of healing right now. Our prayers now are turning to just that God would solidify the work that he has already accomplished, that there'd be no complications, that all the things that they did, and they did a lot of things. The surgeon in fact said to me at the end, it's gonna feel like she got hit by a truck. And that's actually not a bad description of what we did to her. And so the next days are the ones where we're really pleading for God to do this kind of miraculous healing that he started by providing all the things that he's, he's already done. I, as a husband, cannot be more thankful, more grateful, without words for everybody who has prayed. Uh, for my parents, for you guys, Tony, for all of our friends who reached out for so many people, I've realized I have a part-time job now just answering text messages, uh, on behalf of my wife for those who desperately are loving her through prayer. And again, I think I'd affirmed before. I'll say this very quickly, about the elders praying over her. About what a sweet time that was. Not only did that happen, but uh, unbeknownst to me until a little bit later on in that day did I learn that a bunch of women in the church had taken it upon themselves to schedule an 11 hour block where there was gonna be somebody praying every hour for my wife. And, um. Man, if, if, if this is not what the family of God does for one another, I don't know what they do.  [00:18:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:18:35] Jesse Schwamb: So I'm so grateful. Thank you for everybody who has prayed. I also don't want to testify. That's the power of God and his eminence. And his transcendence is just unreal loved ones. It's unreal, it's otherworldly and he comes in power when his people pray. He does good work and it's very James one. There's a lot that even as I'm worried now about the outcome of this surgery and how it will play out, that I can still somehow truly count it all joy, because it is God who does these things in our lives to test and to prove out our faith and our love towards him, because he's in fact good. And I'm just testifying to that goodness in the midst of this difficulty. So wherever you are at. For whatever it's worth. And I think it's worth a lot. God is faithful. He will do the work that he began, and he will meet us when we need him, where we are at in his loving kindness because of his great mercy. So be encouraged by that. And again, my sincere gratitude.  [00:19:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't have much that I can add to that. I mean, I, I, I think, um, prayer is an undervalued commodity in the church.  [00:19:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:19:49] Tony Arsenal: And. As good and right as it is for us, uh, to pray when there's some big, um, big need like this. Um, and, and there's no, there's no, uh, dishonor or shame in asking for prayer in the big situations. I think sometimes too, like we forget that prayer is just as vital and just as important and just as powerful and just as meaningful and just as everything in the small things. Amen. Um, and, and I also think, you know, sometimes we, maybe this is just me, but like sometimes we go into, we go into a, a scenario like what you and your wife are going in and we sort of like prepare ourselves for. The hard providence to come. Like, I don't know if, if that's where you've been at, but I know when I'm facing things like this, um, I'm, I'm kind of like asking people to pray, expecting God to bring the hard providence.  [00:20:43] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:20:44] Tony Arsenal: Um, and maybe that's just a coping mechanism to sort of like get out in front of it in case he does. Um, but like that God, God doesn't, uh, how do I wanna say this? I don't think that God takes any particular joy in bringing the par, the hard providences. Mm-hmm. And I actually think he does take a particular joy in answering the prayers of his people unto good effect. Um, I think there's a particular joy that God brings when he, God has in his own divine accommodated, anthropo, pathic way, um, when he can make sure that everything just breaks the right way for his children. Right. In a really difficult, complex, long surgery. Um, and all of the butterfly effect elements of, of how all of those different things are gonna, you know, spread out. Right. I don't know if this surgeon's gonna come to faith because you attributed his success in this surgery to, you know, to, to God. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Um, but, but either way, there are a thousand, a million imperceptible little ways that God's providence flows out of these kinds of situations that we will never know. Um, and he, he takes great joy in answering the prayers of his people and. Yes, it's true that when God, when we ask God for bread, he does not give us a stone even when he gives us the hard providences, right? The hard providences are not a stone, but he likes to give us really good bread.  [00:22:10] Jesse Schwamb: Amen.  [00:22:10] Tony Arsenal: And I think at times, um, we, we sort of almost doubt that he is able and willing and joyful to do so. So that's more, I think, more a reminder for me than it is for anyone else. 'cause I, I have a tendency to prep myself for the hard providences, um, before they come and, and pray to that effect that God would comfort me in the midst of whatever trials is coming. Um, maybe I need to show a little bit more faith in a good God who gives good gifts, um, to pray and thank him in advance for the good providence is the, the easier the soft providence is that he has in store for his people as well.  [00:22:46] Jesse Schwamb: Well, I think we all need that reminder from time to time and I, again, I like where you've taken that. It is a good reminder to pray for the people that you love around you all the time, or just ask. What's something that you would like some prayer for, especially maybe something that you can't pray for yourselves through this time? I can't tell you how many times somebody has asked to pray with me or for me, and they pray in ways that just astound me. I dunno if that makes sense. Yeah. Like just, I get off the phone and I think, well, that was spirit filled because I didn't know that I needed to hear those words. I didn't know exactly like what needed to be stitched together in terms of the requests that would really minister to my heart and provide me encouragement. But course the Lord knows, and even in prayer as you're saying, he's giving that good gift to each other.  [00:23:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:35] Jesse Schwamb: When we pray with one another, when we pray for one another, it's just a remarkable thing that I fail to understand and I definitely fail to appreciate. So in this season of being able to see it very clearly as if like the clouds. Parted and I could see some of this power of prayer and what God does in prayer, what God does to us in the prayer of others. I can't help but testify again. I feel it is my duty to do so, actually. So be encouraged, loved ones that this is a powerful weapon that God gives us. I think you and I have said before, Tony, maybe we can also partly this into like another reform. A brotherhood bumper sticker. I said another, like, we have bumper stickers. We don't, we definitely should. At some point  [00:24:17] Tony Arsenal: we do have at least one cross stitch pillow floating around out there  [00:24:20] Jesse Schwamb: somewhere. That's true. Yes. We need to get our hands on that. And maybe here's something else we could add to it, which is of course, when, when we work, we work, but when we pray, God works. And so I've just been reminded of that over and over and over again. The situation, like you said in the big times and the small times, what a blessing, what God is like this, who cares. Who again, is what I've been thinking about is how high and lifted and transcendent God is, so that like he's not moved in, uh, in a dis, like a passionate way by this nonsense of our world. He's steady and steadfast. You know, Isaiah 26, like our God is an everlasting rock, and yet he's eminent in sending his son to identify with the kind of pain even my wife is in right now. In her time of trial and struggle. He is there and yet separated and so powerful that he orchestrates all the details himself. I mean, what God is like this.  [00:25:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:25:11] Jesse Schwamb: So this is the one to whom we get to bend his ear, as it were, and we'll avail ourselves of that opportunity. Always. You're gonna have to stop it, Tony. Otherwise, I'm, this whole episode is just gonna be me talking about, which would not be bad, I suppose, but me talking about how good our God is, I suppose we can talk about that actually in the context of Matthew 25. [00:25:30] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. You better watch yourself before you wreck yourself. Is that how it goes? But I did that, that took a month off of podcasting. I forgot how to do transitions. Not that we were ever great at transitions. It's just slamming into gear  [00:25:43] Jesse Schwamb: now. That loved one's a segue that you, you don't even know about yet. You didn't even get it. So let me help you try to get it. 'cause I, I wanna do this quickly, but of course it's always the best part of our conversations where we can get to the scripture. Let me read just the first, uh, 13 verses Matthew 25, and I'm gonna read them from the version that I read on the last episode because part of the fun of this conversation that Tony I had had subsequently was, do you remember what you said to me, Tony, about, about the, this, I don't wanna say the word yet, but this word. [00:26:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I, what I remember is, um, feeling confused because I, I said, I thought this was like a Mandela effect kind of thing. Yes. We might have to, I'll explain briefly what that is in that I could have swore this word was in the, in the Bible. Like I was, it was so ingrained in my head that this was there. And then I'm trying to find it in my, my version that I'm bringing in. It's not there. And the obvious answer is it actually was there in the version that Jesse was reading and is there in many translations. Um, so we'll, we'll read the translation, uh, Jesse read, and then we'll talk about why not only why this is, uh, important in the light of our last conversation, but actually how it's important in light of what will likely now be the beginning of our conversation on the next parable, and in the next week or maybe two of, of the discussion of the parable of the talents here, or one of the parable and talents. [00:26:57] Jesse Schwamb: So this is Matthew 25, beginning in verse one. Then the kingdom of heaven may be compared to 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the body groom. Now five of them were foolish and five are prudent. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now, while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout. Behold the bridegroom come out to meet him. Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the prudent, give us some of your oil for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered saying, no, there will not be enough for us. And you go to and instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves. And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast and the door was shut. And later the other virgins also came saying, Lord, Lord, open for us. But he answered and said, truly, I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore, stay awake for you. Do not know the day nor the hour.  [00:28:02] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. So the part of this, uh, passage that I was having, like a brain cramp on and couldn't figure out is actually verse 13 and, um. The reason this is important and ties in, and this is part of why Jesse and I after we sort of had like a second, the beginning of a second episode, following the last episode, um, wanted to come back, is that this, this verse in verse 13 actually makes, um, in effect it makes the second parable that we're gonna talk about the parable of the talent here. It actually makes that parable like an extension of the first one or maybe an explanation of the first one, or further clarification. I'm not sure. It, it links the two together in a way that's really significant. So we need to make sure we really understand. Verse 13, and I'm gonna read verse 13 in my translation to demonstrate kind of where I think the, the question starts and says, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. And what Jesse and I kind of like marveled at is, um, the word for watch, uh, it's actually the same word we get the name Gregory, for, uh, from, um, the, the idea of being wakeful or alert or not falling asleep. That's that's there in the word. Um, and, and I don't think it's a bad translation. I don't. I always, um, wanna be really hesitant to sort of like make an argument that you wanna like build an entire theological point on a translation or a mistranslation. I think those are really shaky arguments, and even more than that, I don't ever wanna make an argument that makes it so people feel like they can't trust their English bibles. So the, the difference between the version that Jesse read with, you know, statements of being awake or stay awake or be alert versus watch, or more generalized alertness language, which is I think probably a better, not, not that the other one's bad, but this is probably a better translation. And it's a translation decision that's trying to connect that verb back to something that was said about the virgins. Right, right. The, the virgins, um, and this is, this is where our conversation went, is actually the, the sort of like real time epiphany that Jesse and I had, maybe I just had Jesse new, the, the sort of like real time epiphany that both, both groups of virgins fell asleep. Right. And so being asleep is not the necessary, it's not the thing that makes the virgins foolish.  [00:30:35] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:30:36] Tony Arsenal: The, the translation, I think, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, not like a mind reader and I haven't read anything from the translation committees that explain that this is why they did it. But I'm, I'm, I think it's reasonable to think they translated in light of that wakefulness element of being alert because of the fact that the virgins fell asleep and they were sort of caught off guard when the bridegroom came. But the reason I think that's an over translation is exactly the dynamic we pointed out last week, falling asleep was not the problem,  [00:31:04] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:31:05] Tony Arsenal: What was, what was the problem was not being prepared. And so this concept of watch, therefore is more, I think is more about preparedness because of the fact that the parable is about preparedness, not about wakefulness. So when we wanna think about translations, yes, verse 13 comes after verses one through 12, but there's this little word therefore that connects this one with the next one, right? And so it's watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. If that was the end of, end of the book of Matthew, right, right there, then that therefore would be like, because of what I just said, watch for, you neither know the day nor the hour, you know, neither the day nor the hour. But then in verse 14, it starts with four. It will be like a man going on a journey who called his servant and entrusted them through his property. That word for, that's another connecting logic word. So it's watch therefore, so like, because of what I just said, be alert, watch, be wakeful, be mindful, be prepared for, you know, neither the day or the hour. Four, because it will be like a man going on a journey, right? The reason you have to watch is partially, or the reason you have to watch is that you will neither know the day nor the hour. And the reason you will neither know the day nor the hour is because it will be like a man who's going on a journey called his servants and entrusted them to his property, right? So these two parables are connected and we have to sort of like understand what that watch word means and how it relates to the previous parable to understand now what it is that the next parable is trying to say and how the two relate to each other.  [00:32:45] Jesse Schwamb: I think that's right. It's like you said before, we talked about last time, it's not that sleep was the problem. That's not where the condemn nation comes in. It's merely that sleep revealed the lack of preparedness. Right. Like I suppose if you wanted to change it up, you could be like, and then they all played Uno for a while and the lambs were going strong and then suddenly the bride coon came out and it was like, okay, well it was the fact that all the lamps were still burning. Yeah. But as they were still burning and that time was passing and the bridegroom delayed, providentially, then it was only those imbued with that grace who already I prepared for that moment in time. Not that they were all playing Uno itself. So, which, which I know this is like my own translation, which is horrible, but. It is important if somebody thinks like we're overworking this.  [00:33:26] Tony Arsenal: Right?  [00:33:26] Jesse Schwamb: It's important, I think, because it, it's gonna set up the next stuff, which we're gonna get to, uh, I presume in the next episode. But this verse is, is like a, is like kind of like the keystone. It's, it constitutes like the entire moral conclusion of both this parable, but the other two that are just like it, that come before it in different ways. And of course it's like structurally parallel to a bunch of like mark and stuff that we may or may not get to. And then it echoes like the broader, all that discourse as well. So I was just looking up quickly, mark 13, in other words like where do we hear this same type of language? Where does it almost rhyme in our minds? And so if you go over just to mark 1333, and this is the parable of the fig tree. So we won't get into that there, but you'll see kind of like the same conclusion, the same, I kind of high and lifted point at the end. And this is where Jesus says, see to it, keep on the alert. For you do not know when the appointed time will come. So instead, really what we're getting at is there's all this language about watchfulness, like the, the present imperative in Greek. Keep on watching, be continuously a work, uh, alert, but it's not like watchfulness in this like anxious, vigilant, kind of nervous energy uncertainty, but it's the prepared readiness of one who has oil in the vessel and knows that the bridegroom is coming regardless of whether you fall asleep. [00:34:46] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And again, you know, the, the way that, um, the way that English translations are broken up into paragraphs and into, with headings and editorial content and chapter divisions and verse divisions, um, those things are all helpful and they're all really useful and I'm glad they're there. Uh, they're not inspired though, right? They're not the word of God. The, the, for the little, the little super script 14 before the word four and the little super script 13 before the word watch. Is not, it's not inspired and neither is the little, at least in the version I'm looking at on logs Bible start, neither is the little paragraph break that separates these two. So we, we can equally read and again, like I haven't done a full Greek exo treatment of this and maybe I should to, to know whether there is actually some real specific grammatical reasons why we would break these. There probably is, but we could equally read it saying, but he answered truly I say to you, I do not know you watch therefore for, you know, neither the hour or the day nor the hour. For it will be like a man going on a journey who called his sermon or we could read it, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour for it will be like a man going on a journey. Right, right. We can, we can, the way that we read it, we can, we can clump verse 13 with what comes before it and sort of imply a full break or we can clump it with what comes after it and imply a full break before it. In reality, we shouldn't do either of those. Right. This is in, this is linked together in the, the Bible specifically to take these two parables. And pull them together. Right. Thematically, they're the same. They match, they, they have kind of this rhyming nature that like, there's, there's this theme of like, these people who have a specific task and they accomplish it to greater or lesser degree. And the ones who do it, right, the ones who do it well are rewarded in some sense because of their preparedness and their diligence. And again, I, I don't, um, I know that we can't overemphasize this because this is God's word, right? Right. The, the difference between foolishness and wisdom in the first parable is not whether or not the virgins fell asleep. It's, it's whether or not they were prepared for the eventual coming of the bridegroom, meaning that they had everything they need, not only to, um, and this is a, a real time realization I'm having here, not only to be ready when the bridegroom came, but to be prepared for the long haul until he came. Right. I think that's actually probably another big part of this pearl that we didn't even really talk about is that there's a, there's a, um. There's an implied statement here about the, the, um, perseverance of the saints in the fact that the saints have to persevere. Right? That's a corollary of the doctrine, of the perseverance of the saints, is that we actually have to do the persevering, right? Empowered by the spirit. Enabled by the spirit. Ordained by the spirit, of course, but that doesn't mean the spirit is the one who's persevering, right? Right. The spirit is not persevering for us. The spirit is causing us to persevere, but it's still us that he's causing to persevere. That's a major part of that. This next parable and, and we'll read, we'll read the parable here and then we'll get into some of the beginning part. I think this next parable here is really about like what does that perseverance look like? What does that diligence until the master comes, looks like. It's kind of like taking this, this period of time where the bride groom is delaying and the virgins all are becoming drowsy and sleeping. Well, what does that actually look like? What does it look like for the virgins who have gotten the oil ahead of time versus the virgins who waited and then had to go buy it? Well, the parable of the talents in this next passage shows us what it means to be prepared. And part of what it means to be prepared is to be diligently working to advance the kingdom of God diligently working to pursue and excel in righteousness, insofar as it depends on us, and insofar as we're empowered by the Holy Spirit. So these two, these two parables are linked together and um. Maybe we're falling into this trap a little bit, although I think because of the way we're kind of doing these, these passages in sort of organic fashion, rather than really insisting on sort of hermetically sealing off each parable, we have a tendency, I think to say like, this parable is this right? This parable is that. And we don't really ever talk about them unless you're in like a parables of Christ Seminary class or like you're reading a book on the parables of Christ. Um, if you're just sort of looking at popular teaching on parables or you're. Like a sermon series through the parables. I don't think you're gonna run into a lot that's gonna show these connections and relationships between the parables in the way that I think we're, I'm stumbling upon is maybe not right. But that's what it feels like. We're sort of like discovering in real time together that these parables are so organically linked to each other that we really can't seal them off from each other or we do some violence to the text.  [00:39:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right on. Yeah. And speaking of that whole life, whole preparedness, whole watchfulness, John Owen writes, in the mortification of sin, the whole of Christian living may be described as a preparation for eternity, mortifying sin, growing in grace, abiding in Christ, waiting for his appearing, which really strikes me as maybe a summary of like an umbrella of all of these parables of ones that we've just seen most recently and the ones that we're about to go into because. The ground for the watchfulness here is that like legitimate eschatological ignorance. This is like a deliberate, divinely ordained uncertainty. So of course, like knowing the precise moment would just tempt the flesh to delay until the last possible moment, which is precisely the error of the foolish virgins who assume that there was enough time to obtain the oil after that midnight cry. So all of this is happening right now. Like I, I do think this verse is just so critical now. It's like really a weird linchpin. It is like the capstone in a strange way of like the three parable sequence in the olive discourse, which we already talked about, the 10 virgins, the talents, and the sheep and the goats. Because it strikes me as you were speaking, Tony, what was coming to my mind is like each is almost escalating from, as it were, like a watchfulness to like a fruitfulness, to like a final judgment. And each of those are kind of building on each other. In other words, like there is a logical consistency and chronology to those things that Christ is leading us through. And the verse therefore doesn't stand alone. It's like this hinge between the eschatological warning of the virgin narrative and the productive stewardship demanded in the parable of the talents. And I think unless you see that here, it's like saying, listen, the watchful person does this. You know, why should you be watchful because of this example I've just given to you. So within that Oliver discourse, there's the exhortation to watchfulness, which occurs with that striking force. Stay awake, be ready, watch. And of course, I think we're just joining in all the reform exe and the pros who had this instinct of reading those with a unity. Yeah. The whole discourse is like the L, the Lord's own like pastoral Herman Hermeneutic, I guess on like Daniel nine or whatever. So like it is important, and I think it is maybe a bridge that, at least in my mind, I often didn't build or didn't seem necessarily because you're like, well this, this ends one. And the warning is to be watchful. And now here's something else. That's something interesting you should consider. Yeah. But really this is all one and the same, all, all. Maybe one like well like parable to rule all parables, like it's a single parable told in many sequential pieces.  [00:42:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Which is something we saw before, right? Yes. And maybe, maybe not to belabor the point and, and again taking, take this in the context of me saying I never want to try to make an argument that you must be able to read Greek in order to profit from the scriptures. [00:42:20] Jesse Schwamb: Sure.  [00:42:20] Tony Arsenal: All of that said, it's very helpful to understand a little bit about how Greek works, even if you don't actually learn Greek. So for example, and here's, I promise you that this is not just me being nerdy about Greek. I'm looking at the ESV and verse 13 says, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. Right? So the, the command comes, uh, before the logical connector that sort of like, is explaining why, right? Because of, because of something. Right? When it's the thing that comes before, maybe it's the thing that comes after, usually it's probably before, but because of this thing, watch therefore for, you know, neither they or the hour, right? And then in verse 14 it says four. It will be like a man going on a journey. This is where I think understanding how Greek works a little bit is important. Both the word therefore and the word for. In Greek, which it's, it's therefore it's un OUN or omega upsilon new un and gar for four. Both of those are what's called post positive, and what that means is that it cannot be the first word in a sentence. So, um, verse 13 is translated very word order, literal watch. Therefore that ma matches the Greek very closely. Verse 14 is not right, right. Verse 14, if you translated it very literally would be like, uh, let's see. Would be. Just as for a man, and I get like, you can hear there, right there, why we don't translate it that way is 'cause it's really awkward, but it's just as for a man, uh, a man went on a journey or a man, um, going on a journey who called his servants. Right. The, the point of what I'm trying to say here though is that that subtle variation in the verb, the command coming first versus this post positive, logical connector coming first, that that sort of like gears your brain towards a certain conclusion. Right? Right. Watch, therefore we, we have a tendency to think like watch connects to the previous one. Right? This verb must connect us to the previous one, where the next one we see four being the beginning of a word, beginning of a sentence. We feel like that's the beginning of a new thought, right? This logical connector at the be very beginning of a sentence is like starting a new thought. The problem with that is, one, it doesn't actually match the Greek word order in both cases. Neither of these is the first word of the sentence, but let's just think of it in as a post positive and say that it should have been the first word of the sentence, but the Greek grammar won't allow it to be.  [00:45:00] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:45:01] Tony Arsenal: That connector in both cases is linking us to the previous sentence, and that means both of these sentences are linking us to the previous sentence, meaning both segments of thought are linked to other together. Verse 14 is linked to verse 13, and verse 13 is linked to verse 12. There's no good grammatical reason that I can see with the 30 seconds of looking at it and the five semesters of Greek, right? Keep that in mind. I'm not an expert, but there's no good reason I see immediately from the Greek text, right? There are certain phrases and indicators in Greek that tell you like, this is a new segment of thought. I don't see those here. What I see is a very strong, strong, logical sequence of connection between 13 and 14, right? Therefore, watch for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. Well. Going back to our discussion about translating that in terms of sort of general watchfulness or preparedness or translating it in light of sleep. These are the things that are important for us to think about when we're reading English translations. 'cause this keys us off to what the, what the translators thought in terms of what belongs with what translators. Even though there's a paragraph break here in the ESV, the translation that says be awake or be, you know, uh, do not sleep like this language that's specifically connected to this, like not falling asleep aspect of watchfulness, they're signaling to you that this sentence belongs with the parable above it. Right. Almost exclusively. Right. Because there's nothing in the next parable that has anything to do with being awake or sleeping.  [00:46:35] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:46:36] Tony Arsenal: Right. So, so by translating it as sleep language or do not sleep language, they're sealing it off from the parable that follows and they're kind of like making it this firm break in the text. That's not there in the Greek. That language is not there in the Greek. And it's, um, again, I think the sleep language, that's certainly a part of this word and it's, it's fine for us to interpret this word in light of the parable that came before it, as long as we're not letting that interpretation of it in light of the word that came before it seal it off from the next parable. And I, I worry that if we, if we think about it in terms of the sleepiness aspect of it, which again, there's already some contextual reasons why that doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would, why would Christ command to the people that are listening to him be about not falling asleep when falling asleep was not the problem in the, in the bearable He's told. Right, right. But the problem was, was be prepared. And it actually may be, this is also maybe an overt translation. A better translation might be, be prepared, therefore, right. Be alert, be wakeful, be be mindful, be uh, be on top of things. Right. Be ready for anything. Might be a good way to look at this. Be ready for anything for you. Neither know the day nor the hour. Four. It will be like a man going on a journey and called his servants and entrusted them to his property. So he tells the parable of the virgins, which is, is all about being prepared for the sudden, unexpected coming of the Lord after a delay, after he tarries. And then he says, for it will be like a man going on a journey. Well, what will be like a man going on a journey? The coming of the Lord, the coming of the bridegroom, the coming of the one, the promised one from the previous parable, the bride groom. For that will be like a man going on a journey for the day on the hour, which you do not know. That will be like a man going on a journey, I think. Um, and this will be the last thing I say before I, I let you jump in and, and we're getting close to ending anyways here. I think that, um, these parables are so often, uh, this parable about the talents and the parallels. I mean, there's several different par uh, parables that have to do with this theory. This sort of like scenario of like a master is giving some, some funds to his servants, or a man going on a journey. He's giving some funds to his servants and he expects them to make a return. Right? That's a, there's multiple parables that tell that same basic principle. This one here. Is an eschatological one, but I think it gets clumped in with the others in sort of this idea. And it doesn't hurt that the word talents has a meaning in English, right? It gets clumped in with these sort of like way of teaching this that's like Christ has given you some special abilities and some gifts, you better use it for his glory. Or you're all done. That's not really at all what this is talking about, at least this version of it. You might be able to make an argument for some of the others that that is about kingdom fruitfulness and, and to much is given, much is expected, right? That's the output of those parables. This one is really, it's explicitly about being prepared for this sudden arrival of the bridegroom, uh, after he delays, after he tarries. So that's all I'll say for now on that. I just, this is. This is why we had to do another episode, right? Like, because we couldn't do all of this Last week we started and we were like, we gotta push pause, save something for next week. This is one of those like realtime discoveries, realtime uh, epiphanies that I'm just like, I cannot believe I didn't see this in the text before, but I'm so glad that we're doing this deep dive. This sort of like long running slow burns through these parables because these are the kinds of things we're able to see when we really slow down and take our time.  [00:50:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's that good old like crockpot theology. I'm with you. There is like in the next par we'll see a kind of manifest fruitfulness that comes from a preparedness and if, if we divorce that we're gonna get to the end of the next parable. And I think what we'd find is that, wow, the master seems super harsh here. Why is he so ticked off that the people with whom he entrusted all of these resources didn't do anything with them? It just seems like he's overzealous in saying, well, you just wasted a lot of things until you see like that full emphasis that comes all the way through these other parables in terms of the reason why. Then I think it starts to make more sense. So I did have to look it up like you're right, that the NIV has therefore keep watch. The King James version also is using watch, therefore. So if that's the emphasis, in other words, if the thrust is you ought to be watchful and prepared in all of your life for all the things preparing for Christ, doing the things in the work of Christ. Now it makes sense that to go away again and to have this time of not knowing when the perusia happens and being unprepared and unfruitful because you were not watchful, because you did not do the things you ought to have done and be making yourself again aware and vigilant in that awareness, then there's a problem. And that's like gonna be, I think, the full thrust of what's gonna happen that we're gonna see next when we look into this parable. I think it's important to remember that this parable is not as it sometimes is presented like an allegorize timeless moral maxim that's divorced from its eschatological referring. Yeah, the 10 virgins are figures of those awaiting Christ perusia. The oil is not some kind like vague symbol of like good works in a ian sense, but I think it's best understood as the reality of saving grace and the spirits in dwelling, which cannot be borrowed or transferred. If all of that is true. Then how does that manifest in daily living? What does that look like? And then what does that lead to on the day of judgment? All of that is to come for us, but it actually starts in this verse here in verse 13, just with the simple, very direct, but e expressly articulated phrase, be watchful or be prepared. Maybe like a better incidentally, like contemporary treatment would be like, don't sleep on this. Like, I like the word sleep in that context. Yeah. Which of course, when somebody says that to you, they're not actually meaning like, don't fall asleep now. But make sure that you're paying attention to this thing. Get after this thing, go and grab this thing, get a hold of this very thing. Make it your priority. And I think really that is what is Christ is after here as he moves us from one example into another. That's almost, again, to me like the manifestation or the outworking 'cause because one might ask, and maybe this is like a good question, he was anticipating, you hear that story and we're just used to like things moving, or like you said, like discreet chunks of text, which we appropriate for ourselves. We take out, it's almost as they have little boxes on the shelf and we remove that box. We look at it, we study it, we turn over, we put it back, and it's a little compartment place. And instead you can imagine, uh, as I could, I think if you were hearing this in the context of conversation, of teaching in this way, that you might say like, so what? Like be prepared for what, how do we get prepared? What does preparedness look like? And so that's what's coming for us next.  [00:53:34] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And you know, the other thing I think that's, um, important for this parable, um, there are some places in the scripture in the, uh, in the gospels where Christ's teaching and nothing specific comes to mind. So this is. Hypothetical, but I know there are actual places. I just can't think of anything right off the top of my head. There are some places where sort of like discrete chunks of Christ's teaching are juxtaposed next to other discreet chunks. Sure. That's an editorial decision by the gospel author. Right. Matthew makes a decision to put this story next to this story, and we might see in Luke actually, it's slightly different. A good, a good example would be like in the temptation narratives, um, the order of the Temptations is different I think between Matthew and Luke. Right. And there's, there's an editorial decision that's made there and there's a theological reason. I don't know off the top of my head what it is. I'm sure I studied it in, you know, like gospels class in seminary. Um, that's not what's happening here, right? These are not two discreet chunks of text. That Matthew has decided to put together, right? Right. Christ is the one that says, watch therefore for you. Neither know the day nor the hour for it will be like a man going on a journey. Christ is the one who has decided, and this is one chunk of teaching. There's, um, like the Sermo

Do you market your practice for its dentistry? For its atmosphere? For the team? Something else? Tiff and Dana talk about why it's so critical to market the right aspect of your practice, and then following through on that aspect. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back again. I've got Miss Dana here with me. We are busting out a few podcasts today and I love this so much. ⁓ I just love podcasting with you, Dana. It's easy, it's fun. We get on tangents sometimes and soap boxes and it's wonderful. And I hope everyone out there, all the listeners, love it as much as we do. Dana, how are you over there? I know we're hot and it's like...   I know, we probably have like 3 % humidity, but we're feeling it. But anyways, how's it going?   DAT-Dana (00:32) It's going good. It's going good. Today is a busy day, I feel like, you know, busy days help the day go by fast and helps me feel super productive. So I'm excited that podcasting with you gets to be a part of this busy day.   The Dental A Team (00:44) thank you. Thank you. I love the word productive that you slid that in there. I have been very well, I think I could be more intentional about it. I say very, but I think I've been slightly intentional about it because I was talking with gosh, my sister or somebody I don't know, but they were like, how come? it was my sister talking about hairdressers, hairdressers. love you, Christie. I love you. But sometimes it's like, my gosh, I come out more exhausted than when I went in. And it's confusing. And I thought to myself, I think   This is just me thinking out loud. told my sister, I think that when you're asked, how are you, our initial, nobody thinks what's the best thing that happened to me today that I can tell this person, right? Because we're like trying to hold back and we're like, I don't want to make you like, I'm having this amazing day. We're buying a house, like, but I don't want it like, I don't know where you're at in your life. So I don't want to overshare and be extra and make you feel bad about anything in your life. So when you ask me that question, I'm going to say, well, I'm busy, like,   life is busy. How are you? Because I want to gauge how you are before I'm excited about my life, which is really sad if you think about it. But I thought to myself, everyone who sits in a hairdresser's chair gets this she's like, what's the news? What's what's new? What's what's going on? What's the drama? And you sit there and you spew all of this busy and anything that's like, exciting because drama is like exciting. It gets you pumped up, right? And they're   DAT-Dana (02:00) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (02:11) their five people they hang out with the most are drama. So then I come in and it's like, my gosh, I'm so exhausted. So my point in that is my intentionality has been to try to be like, I'm I've been super productive lately. Because I'm always going to be busy. It's just life like you've got you've got a whole farm over there of animals and humans. Dana, I don't know if I'm the first person to tell you this.   But you're going to be busy for the next 10 years. You got 10 years left that you're going to be longer, but I'm going to give you 10. That's what I'm going to say today. You're going to be busy. So I've been trying to be like, I've been super productive. So when Erin's like, how was your day? I'm like, it was, it was good and it was productive. I don't know. It just feels better. Your words, words create your world. And I feel like it's so easy to just mute yourself and not celebrate.   DAT-Dana (02:41) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:08) in this kind of world where we're like, I want to engage where you're at first because I don't want to be too much.   DAT-Dana (03:14) Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think a part of it too is like I sit in the turn, I'm like, wow, like she talks to a lot of people, like, how can I wow her? Right? Like, or how can I be different? Right? I know she hears about a lot of people's kids and a lot of people's this and a lot of people's that. So like, where do I come in with like my uniqueness or like something that like, also will make her day a little bit like better because it was more interesting than all the like all the same conversation that she hears. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:20) Yeah. Yes.   Yes.   Yes.   Yeah, and I think it's every profession, you know, hairdressers are just like easy because you're stuck there. And I mean, you and I are stuck there for like three hours because I don't know why I'm a blonde highlight stick so long. And it's fine. Or like when you go get your nails done or coaching calls, you know, I'm like, Hey, how are you? And they're like, good, busy. I'm like, no, like, tell me about like, tell me about you. I want to hear about you. So like, we get the same   kind of response even, and hopefully people aren't walking away saying they're exhausted. Sometimes I think they probably are because I can be a lot, but you just let us know. You let us know what you need. But anyways, I think you made me think of that, the intentionality behind making sure that our words create the world that we live in. And I've been trying, if you guys remember the try, if you didn't see Summit or you weren't at our mastermind, you might not know, which means I haven't been very great at replacing busy.   with productive, but it's on my bucket list. That's my intentionality right now is to be productive. And I think that statement, just, you you say something and then my mind spins, but it really does relate to what we're talking about today because it's part of marketing. think I love marketing and people think it's wild. My fiance thinks I'm crazy. He's like, you're so weird that you love marketing. like, everything is marketing. How I present myself, how...   I hold myself, how tall I sit up, the words that I'm using. I'm constantly marketing to the people around me. I'm marketing to my friends. Was I a waste of your time today? Did I create value? Did I hold space for you? Was I intentional? Did I inspire you in some way? I'm constantly thinking of, gosh, how can I positively impact this person in front of me? And that is marketing. That's who I am to my core.   That's my culture. That's my, my mission. And to me, those are what create the marketing, right? We, we think Dana, marketing company and Google ads and Yelp, Brody has got his detailing business. He's like, is Yelp worth it? And I was like, well, you got to pay for it. Like we can go down to Yelp rabbit hole, but all you think of all these things and Facebook and meta ads and all these things are marketing a hundred percent. But in reality, we're constantly marketing to the people around us. Does you have   Bri, like tell me poke holes in that, Dana. I don't know. That's my mindset and people think I'm crazy for it.   DAT-Dana (05:58) No, I agree with you   100 % in that because I feel like at the end of the day, yes, you can do Google ads and you can do meta ads and you can have the best website and you can have SEO that is tractioning beyond belief, right? But then what are you marketing? And it is you, the experience, your team, yes, the dentistry, right? But they did a survey not that long ago. I wanna say like right post COVID and it was like, hey,   What are you looking for when you choose a dentist when you go back? And I still think that like this 100 % stands today. And that was like honestly and truly the quality of the dentistry that they received was well below on the list than where I anticipated it to be. And it was truly that white glove experience. And so I think that you're 100 % correct that yes, those things are great, but you won't get traction on those things if the experience   The Dental A Team (06:41) Yeah.   DAT-Dana (06:52) the personality, sometimes even too, just like the appearance of the office. When I walk in, do I feel calm and serene versus it looks like it's chaos here and it kind of gives me more anxiety? All of those things are marketing. And two, all of those things will drastically impact anything that you spend money on for marketing too.   The Dental A Team (07:16) I totally agree. Yes. And gosh, there's so many things. There's so many nuggets in there. I love it. I truly believe I tell, I tell doctors all the time and teams. I'm like, yeah, cool. You did an awesome filling. It was great by perfection. They didn't have to come back for an adjustment. Guess who doesn't know that some people have to come back for an adjustment. The patient that didn't have to come back for an adjustment. Guess who doesn't know that you picked the right shade of A2.   to match the filling so it doesn't look like they have a filling on tooth number two. The patient who has a filling on tooth number two, they can't see it, they don't know. It's like you can't even see tooth number two while you're filling it. You're like cranking your neck and your arms are all wild. Patients don't know what a good filling is. They know what a bad filling is, right? They know when it hurts, they know when their floss gets stuck, they know. But patients who aren't experiencing those things, to them it's everyday.   DAT-Dana (07:50) Now, you can rarely even see tooth number two.   The Dental A Team (08:12) normal life. They're just like, cool, thanks. Awesome. I'm good to go. They don't. He has like, we know we're like, heck yeah. Like I remember, I remember early in my dental days, this is slightly, this is really embarrassing. Actually, my doctor used to laugh so hard. And finally, he was like, Tiff, let me tell you what's supposed to be here. Because we would have our template for our notes, you know, I've never told this story. So so embarrassing now at 42. But when I was, know, 21, I had no idea what   DAT-Dana (08:16) You were a dentist today? Great!   The Dental A Team (08:42) was doing is just like write my notes and I'm like okay so I'd fill it in and then we do a written on I you know do the gutta percha length and I do all the all the different pieces and at the end it said like result I think is what it said like outcome result something right and so I'm like beautiful root canal because it was that was a beautiful root canal I like got a percha hit exactly where it was supposed to there was not   We didn't go past, we didn't perf, we didn't leave a gap. There was no, it was a beautiful root canal. And finally, he was like, while I appreciate the kudos, like, we just need to know like, it was a, like, it was done. Like, so he switched my words, right? But I was just like, ⁓ they don't know, I know, I can look at it and be like, dang, that was, that's a really good implant. That was perfect placement. That is an incredible implant. I can do that. You can do that.   the patient who got the implant is like, cool, I'm done. So I love that you said that because we're we so often market like best crowns in town, same day crowns, they don't patients who have never had a crown don't know that it doesn't get done in a day you you come in and you tell them, all right, it's gonna take two sessions. They're like, well, do I have to do that? Do I so same day crowns like people don't know. So when you're marketing for the dentistry, it's like cool.   DAT-Dana (09:35) Yeah.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (10:01) you might get some patience for that. But when you're marketing for the feeling and the experience, and then you deliver on that. And when we remember Dana that we're constantly marketing, this is where that like busy versus productive, like if you're my friend, Dana, you know, on the street and you come up and you're like, hey, how was your day? And I'm like, oh, it was super productive. You're like, awesome, what'd you do? What'd you get done? Right? And I'm like, well, I worked.   And I got a ton of coaching calls done and I felt really inspired at the end because I impacted so many people. Totally different than, ⁓ it was busy because it was, it was busy and it was exhausting and I'm tired at the end of my days. I am exhausted. I've given everything all day, but versus productive, because I was, I was productive. It's a totally different landscape. when we're like,   When we preach that we're going to give an experience, we're going to deliver an experience, and then we forget to deliver that experience when patients come. Like you said, like how does it look? You know, my doctor used to make us walk around from the patient's perspective and see is there trash on the floor? We'd sit in the chair and we'd see are there water spots on the lamp above us? Like what does the window look like? So when we're not aware of those pieces, patients can come in. They're seeing that, especially post-COVID. Like they're looking for the dirt. They're looking for the trash. And if we're not   If we're not delivering that, we're not, stopped marketing. We marketed to get the patient in the door and then we forgot that we're constantly marketing and the patients who are coming in are choosing us again. They can choose to go anywhere and they're choosing us again.   DAT-Dana (11:42) Yeah, I love that you pointed out just like I just want to caveat I know this is kind of taking us back to where we were but I think that it's super important in that you saying hey we saw each other on the street and you were like how are you and you said I'm super busy versus like I'm productive and I had this I think   on the other end, right? The feeling, which I think is what you're creating for patients, the feeling that I had for you is completely different. When you said, I'm super busy, I was like, I'm kind of bummed for her. Like, it doesn't feel like she's got any space for herself or like, that sounds like it was not a great day when she said busy. But when you said productive and impactful, and I got a lot of coaching calls done, that was like, my gosh, Tiff, I'm super happy for your day. Like, it sounds like a really great day, right? So I think that like that is...   The Dental A Team (12:21) Yep.   DAT-Dana (12:23) really and truly what we're trying to say in this podcast. is like the words, the things, images, everything that you create, right? That's what creates that experience or how the patient feels.   And I just thought it was important to kind of highlight that, all of them, when we say like everything is marketing, right? Well, everything that you do creates a feeling inside a patient. And that feeling is either, this is a great place to be. I feel super safe. I feel super relaxed. I feel super confident. I feel like I've got a lot of trust with them. I feel like they care about me, right? Those are the things. And so what we're trying to say is like marketing is, is everything that you do creates a feeling within a patient. And that is when you get raving fans.   That is when you get referrals and you don't even have to ask for them. Yes, asking for them is great, right? But when you look at marketing as the things that you do every day, how can you elevate them? How can you take them just one notch above where they are? How can you always look at it from a patient experience or a patient perspective? That is when you create the feelings that create raving fans.   The Dental A Team (13:29) Totally   agree. Thank you for pointing that out, Dana, because that is exactly what it is. It's a feeling. Brody, I say this all the time, but Brody gets frustrated with me. Not so much anymore. He's 17 and I've been doing it his whole life. So I think he's gotten over it. He's like, that's just my mom. But I always acknowledge the workers at any store, wherever we're at, if you've got a name tag on, I'm going to call you by your name. And when he was little, he'd be like,   You remember like seven to 11, like they're super judgmental people. That human hated me. Everything I did was wrong. But it was like questioning. It wasn't necessarily wrong. Don't take that. It was just questioning. It was just like, gosh, why do have to be so extra? And I'm like, because it wakes them up. It makes them feel seen in a sea of people just checking out and paying. Like, did you find everything you needed today? Yep. Yeah, I did. Otherwise I wouldn't be at checkout.   DAT-Dana (13:58) yeah.   The Dental A Team (14:21) I hate that you asked me that question, right? No, I didn't, but you're not going to go find it now. There's people behind me and I'm not going to ask you for it, right? So I'm like, you know what? Today was great. Joanna, how's your day going over there on the other side of this machine? And she's like, what? It snaps them out and allows them to be seen and valued in a sea of nothingness. And we as humans are constantly walking around like that.   We're driving, you know, we're not acknowledging each other. We barely even see each other when we're merging on the street. We're not paying attention to each other. We're lost in our own worlds. And when they can come to a place that sees them, that values them, that is intentional with their time with this patient, that's what they're gonna come back for. They could have to come back for adjustments on that filling or crown. Their implant could fail. I've had it. I have had implants fail and the guy...   I had to send this patient, I was like, my gosh, this is so bad. He had three implants fail. I remember this was gosh, probably 16 years ago at this point. He had three implants fail and I had to send him to the oral surgeon. And I was like, I am so sorry. Like I am so and he was like, please don't be you guys are wonderful. My family and I have been coming here for years and we would never consider going anywhere else. That's why I tried the implant here first. The impact that   the whole entire team, our practice had made on him and his family. I still have like, just, have his daughter on our, on my Instagram. Like she just had a baby and I was like, my gosh, like Bianca, this is amazing. She's the same age as my sister. Like this, this is what I'm talking about. And that's marketing. And I think Dana marketing is perceived as salesy. Like we were trying to sell somebody on something, but like I'm not, I'm just trying to impact your life.   DAT-Dana (16:11) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (16:11) I want   you to feel so good that you want to spend more time with me. And I want to invite you into my safety bubble where it's okay to be yourself, where it's okay to be excited about the accomplishments that you have because I had a productive day. I'm in a really good space and I loved it. So what's going well in your life? And you're so much quicker to be like, my gosh, that's awesome. Erin and I are buying a house. And you're like, ⁓ because I know you have.   the space for it, you know, that's my tangent. That's my marketing tangent. This is why I love marketing because it's so easy to just make one little switch in a word and completely change the outcome. And to me, that's marketing.   DAT-Dana (16:56) Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think that like, it's just choosing to do that on an everyday space. think even like listening, we listen in, or we join a lot of marketing calls, right? And they're like, well, what makes you stand out? Right? And then they'll be like, I'm high tech. Okay, well, that's great. Does your patient know what high tech means? Do they know that that means you don't have to gag anymore, that you're super comfortable, that it's pain free, that it's less painful, that like we can relax.   The Dental A Team (17:10) Yes.   DAT-Dana (17:25) you and we can sedate you and we can do all these things. is that because you said high tech and I think to pretty much anybody that walks into a dental office or any medical office it's like they already feel like it's high tech. They're not questioning your tech really when they walk into your office. Those are the things I think that just gives like another layer an example of like truly knowing what sets you apart but knowing how to communicate what sets you apart.   knowing the things that the patient values when you say what sets you apart. Patients like they're just automatically going to assume their dentist has all the tech, right? Dentistry, healthcare, it's a tech place. So they're just going be like, yep, know my dentist has all that tech. But what they don't understand is the things that you have that makes the experience better for them, that makes the pain less for them, that makes recovery easier for them.   all those things. And so that is the marketing piece, taking the time to say those things, taking the time to show them, taking the time to explain, using them and letting them know, because we're using this, you should recover much quicker, right? You shouldn't have to go home and have any bleeding like as soon as you leave here, right? Even fluoride, right? As soon as you leave here, you can now eat those types of things. That's the marketing piece. That's the words. Those are the things that impact the patient.   The Dental A Team (18:39) Totally agree. And on that point, you mentioned the marketing companies and the marketing companies like what sets you apart vetting a great marketing company. And my opinion is like hiring someone on your team, right? Which it's easy for us to see that because we have marketing people. We don't, we have a marketing department. We didn't hire a marketing comp. We have hired marketing companies. Currently we don't have a marketing company working.   behind the scenes, have marketing people on our team. And so it's easy for us to see that and we help plenty of practices that marketing companies, which is, hard marketing companies marketing. It's a hard space because just like we just said, it's really about changing a dial a little bit and seeing what the result is. And then changing the dial a little bit and seeing what the result is. There's no like, this always works because it's different for everyone.   So marketing is difficult in that way, but when you've got your systems and processes in line at the office, you're inspired humans who are looking to impact more humans. It makes the marketing company's job so much easier because they're marketing you and the experience, not your tech, which nobody knows what a CBCC skit is. Like I barely know what it is, right? I can't read it. I've been in dentistry forever. I have no idea what I'm looking at.   Patients don't either, they just don't. And so when you're looking for a marketing company, really looking at it the same as you would hire a team member onto your team, what would you expect of that team member? How do they show up? What's their integrity level? Do they match your core values? Can they show up to live your core values and your vision? And then once you get your marketing manager, does that marketing manager jive with you? Are they relatable? Are they somebody who's listening to you? Would you hire that person?   to be on your team because I do think Dana, that is a huge piece of external marketing that we've never really considered before.   DAT-Dana (20:34) Yeah, I agree with you. think like...   test their response time with you, look at how they respond to you for things, look at how if you ask questions, do they truly answer them? Do they get to the bottom of it? Or do they even admit, hey, I don't know this, but let me figure it out. And then they do figure it out and they get back to you. Like all of those things that you would test in a working interview or you would ask on a phone interview, right? Oftentimes it's just like, hey, we get through your logistics. This is what we do. This is what we can offer you. Hey, say yes or no. And I think that it is okay. Marketing is a big investment. And you know, sometimes we pay   marketing companies as much as we pay team members, right? And so I agree with you, Tiff, in that like they are now a part of your team, whether it's external or internal, they're a part of it. And so do they live and breathe those things? Does the things that you're wanting to accomplish with them inspire them? Are they responding? Are they actively engaged in your account and come up with really great ideas?   The Dental A Team (21:32) I love that. Yeah, drop the mic. Those are what you need to write down if you're driving when you get to the office or when you get home or the hair salon, wherever you're headed to. ⁓ Rewind and write all those things down that Dana just said. That was incredible, Dana. Thank you. Yeah, I loved this. I think we went into this one like, okay, well, let's see where it takes us. And I think it went on a really fun journey. So Dana, thank you for always ⁓ tracking. you just, we are just like the same brain sometimes.   Same brain, but different, you see different aspects. So thank you for today's conversation. think it was really fun. And everyone, go about your marketing company. I think your action items are to take inventory and maybe even have your team take inventory of the experience that your patients are perceiving. So what's the perception that you're putting out to your patients? Is it in line with your vision, mission, core values? Is it in line with what you want it to be? And then check your marketing, your true marketing.   DAT-Dana (22:06) Yeah, thanks.   The Dental A Team (22:30) Are you talking about same day crowns? Are you talking about we can save you time? Because saving me time is a bigger ask than a same day crown, especially if I don't need a crown, by the way. So go check your marketing. Does it make sense? Does it speak to the patient experience? And can you deliver the patient experience that you're speaking to? You guys, this was really fun. I hope you loved it. I know you did. I know you loved it, because these ones are really fun. When we get ramped up, these are the ones that impact the most. So leave us a five star review.   Let us know your biggest takeaways. We'd love to hear it. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. you need help, if you want Dana's questions, rewind. We're not going to remember what she said unless we rewind. So go rewind, get all of the things and we will catch you next time. Thanks so much, guys.  

Credit: Jasper Savage/Prime. Copyright: © Amazon Content Services LLC. Description: Karl Urban (Billy Butcher) Seven years of blood, corporate satire, and unhinged superhero mayhem have all come down to this. Cat and Paul are back for the ultimate deep-dive into the series finale of The Boys, Season 5, Episode 8: “Blood and Bone.” The show completely threw out the comic books and gave us a beautifully tragic, poetic, and utterly jaw-dropping final hour. We are breaking down every single massive payoff: The Undercard Chaos: We kick things off with the emotional whiplash of Frenchie’s wild last will and testament, followed by Kimiko blasting Sister Sage into a permanent, Orlando-bound “dimwit”. Plus, we celebrate the absolute poetic justice of MM weaponizing a BDSM ball gag against Oh Father and Starlight feeding The Deep to an octopus bent on avenging Ambrosius. The Oval Office Execution: Homelander's “Messiah” tour comes to a pathetic, weeping halt. We dissect the incredible moment Kimiko depowers him and Butcher delivers the ultimate closure—using a bloody crowbar to end the god-king on live television, echoing the very first supe encounter from the pilot. The Final Stand: The real tragedy wasn’t Homelander; it was the final confrontation between Hughie and a deeply broken Butcher over a global virus threat. We break down Hughie’s devastating choice to pull the trigger to save the world, proving that it really does just hurt to be human. The Bittersweet Epilogue: From MM taking in Ryan to Kimiko's healing trip to France, we unpack where the survivors land. Most importantly, we dive into the beautiful full-circle pilot echoes of Hughie and Annie running a quiet A/V store, waiting on a baby girl named Robin, while “Piano Man” brings the curtain down. The Ultimate Question: In the end, did the show argue that Butcher was just as dangerous as Homelander, or did Hughie's final act break the cycle of violence for good? Listen to our final, emotional breakdown with Cat and Paul on all podcast platforms now! #TheBoys #TheBoysFinale #EscapingGilead #Homelander #BillyButcher #Starlight #Hughie #PodcastLife #SeriesFinale MORE IN THIS SERIES Season 5 1+2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Season 4 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Season 3 1+2+3 Pt 1 | 1+2+3 Pt 2 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Season 2 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Follow the show PRIME VIDEO | FACEBOOK | Twitter Follow the Hosts PAUL | CAT This podcast was recorded in Pod Clubhouse Studios and edited by Paul Daley.

Most owner-led agencies know they should be doing more than media relations. One barrier has always been capability: you can’t execute paid media if nobody on your team knows paid media. AI is removing that barrier, and Chip and Gini dig into exactly how. Gini built a PESO model operating system AI that prompts you instead of you prompting it. Many agencies are strong in one or two media types and need scaffolding to think through the rest. The tool can be used to help agencies execute unfamiliar disciplines step by step. Chip frames this as an opportunity to do things that were theoretically possible two years ago but practically out of reach. A paid campaign to amplify a blog post no longer requires hiring a specialist. Beyond drafting, both hosts made a case for AI as a learning tool instead of merely a content machine. Gini tested this directly by vibe-coding a PESO model diagnostic, working through multiple versions with AI troubleshooting each step. The practical upshot is that you can use AI to build separate knowledge-rich agents for each media type, loaded with client messaging and context, and treat them as thought partners for areas where your team lacks depth. It won’t eliminate the need for people or strategic thinking, but capability is no longer a credible excuse for staying stuck at one letter of PESO. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “AI is a great opportunity for all of the things that you wished you could have done two years ago that now become much more feasible for you to do without having to go out and bring in-house new expertise.” Gini Dietrich: “I have built my entire organization using agents. It doesn’t replace anybody. I still need people to do the work, and I still need people to do the strategic thinking, and I still need people to service the client work. It makes us smarter, it makes us faster, it makes us more productive, but it doesn’t replace anyone.” Chip Griffin: “It doesn’t have to do it for you, it can help educate you… You can make it tell you at whatever level of knowledge you need in order to become comfortable with it, and then you actually start to learn it.” Gini Dietrich: “If you don’t have shared or owned and paid expertise internally, you can use those agents to help you build those things.” Related The PESO Model evolves for the AI era (and why your website isn't dead) Has the PESO Model become a necessity for modern agencies? Agencies need the PESO model now more than ever How to allocate your client's PESO budget View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I think we’re gonna let AI do our jobs today. I know we don’t ever talk about AI on this show. Gini Dietrich: We don’t. We don’t like it at all. Chip Griffin: But I think AI is gonna let us do so much more here. Awesome. Maybe even, maybe we can even implement the PESO model as part of the show. Gini Dietrich: Beautiful. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: I’ve, I’ve heard that the PESO model is something that’s really important that we should- … we should focus on. So why not let AI help us with it? Gini Dietrich: Oh, I love it. Maybe we could use NotebookLM and have it create its, our voices too. We’ll just be done. We don’t have to do anything. Chip Griffin: That’s a great idea. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, let’s do it. Chip Griffin: So then, you and I could just connect and just do our gossiping and chit-chat. Gini Dietrich: Right. Yes. Chip Griffin: And we’d still get an episode even without having to take the time to record. Gini Dietrich: Yes. I like it. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: I like it. I like that. That would be- That would be fun. Gini Dietrich: We don’t gossip. What do you mean? Chip Griffin: Gossip, talk about world events. Whatever, however you want. I mean- Gini Dietrich: Yes. It’s kind of good that those aren’t recorded. Ah. Chip Griffin: It is. I suspect we would get a lot of listeners, but we’d lose a lot at the same time, so. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: In any event, we are going to talk about AI again because it is top of mind for all of us, and so we all ought to be thinking about it. And we are gonna talk about the PESO model because we just happen to have somebody here who knows a little bit about the PESO model. So let me explain it to you… Oh, no, I didn’t. Oh. I wasn’t talking about me. With the founder of the PESO model as one of the co-hosts. It, we’ve talked about the PESO model before, but I think, you know, one of the things that, that has occurred to me in recent times, and I’m sure it has occurred to you as well, is that AI can help more PR agencies go deeper into the PESO model, particularly in areas where they maybe don’t have as much in-house expertise. And, and one- Yep … of the things we’ve talked about with agencies a lot is that the PESO model touches a lot of different things, and it’s difficult for any small agency to have all of the skillsets needed to fully execute PESO properly. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah. Chip Griffin: AI seems to open the door to more of that. Gini Dietrich: For sure, it does. One of the things that we did late last year is I built a PESO operating system AI. And instead of you prompting it, it prompts you. So it’s built to do exactly that, so that you can say, “Okay, well, we’re really good at media relations, but we don’t have any expertise in shared, owned, or paid,” or, “We’re really great at owned and shared, but we don’t have any expertise in earned and paid.” Whatever it happens to be, right? And so it will h- it will prompt you with questions to help you think through, “Okay, if we’re great at owned and shared, but we don’t have the E and the P, here are the things you need to be thinking about.” And it will help you either figure out how to execute it on your own with step-by-step instructions, or it will give you a creative brief that then you could hand off to a partner. So it, it’s built to do that, but the point is, is that- I mean, would I prefer you use the PESO OS AI that I built? For sure, but really any AI could do that. I think if you,you have to prompt it. It’s not gonna prompt you. But I think any AI based on information that’s out there in the, on the web that we’ve created around PESO, it will be able to take all of that and say, “Here are some things you should be thinking about.” And I think it’s really good at helping you think through things that you’re just not an expert at. And it’s really good at helping you think through, gosh, we should be using paid to amplify our content, for instance, but I don’t have any idea. Do– should I do it on LinkedIn? Should I do it on Instagram? Should I do it on TikTok? Should I do it on Google? Like, I have no idea. So AI is a really good thought partner from that perspective. Chip Griffin: Well, and I think that’s the, that’s the key point is that it allows you to, certainly you can look at it in, at a 30,000-foot level, you know, with your specialized OS that allows you to really think the whole big picture through. Yep. But you can also use it in a very granular way to say “Hey, look, I know I want to amplify this content. Let’s, let’s look at the various ways that we can do it, and help educate me about how we do that most effectively.” Yep. And, you know, to me, AI is a great opportunity for all of the things that you wished you could have done two years ago Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: That now become much more feasible for you to do without having to go out and bring in-house new expertise, or hiring someone if it’s, particularly when it’s focused, right? If it, it really is just, “I need a paid campaign to amplify this blog post.” That is a whole lot easier to do with AI, frankly, than it is to go hire somebody in-house- Yeah … and a lot cheaper. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely, yes. And it will give you the step-by, literal step-by-step instructions if you wanna do it yourself. Right. And if you don’t wanna do it yourself, you say, “Help me create a project brief or a creative brief that will, that I can hand off to a partner,” and it does that for you too. So one of the things that we do is, you know, I have a paid media expert in, on our marketing team, but then we hire out, depending on what we need, we’ll hire out sort of the day-to-day minutia piece of it. ‘Cause, you know, especially in paid media, you have to be in there every day and testing and tweaking and all that kind of stuff. And AI’s great at saying, “Eh, pay attention to this,” but not great at actually pushing the buttons. And so it has helped our paid media team even just outsource some of that stuff too. So it’s, I think it’s really great from that perspective. You know, it’s still, you, like, I think some, especially PR professionals, are using it for, like, list development and media pitching and things like that, which is fine, but it’s still not… it’s still a good first draft. You still have to add your personalization. You still have to do those kinds of things. One of the things that we were kind of struggling with, actually not struggling with, we were arguing over internally, was our outbound sales campaigns and what those said. And I felt like they were way too long. Our chief revenue officer felt like the calls to action weren’t right, and so we put it into AI, and we were like, “This is where we’re struggling. We’re not agreeing on these five points.” And it pumped out some stuff that we were like Okay, that’s– I– All right, let’s try that. So, you know, I don’t know yet if it’s gonna work ’cause we haven’t launched it, but it helped us think about things a little bit differently than we had just the three of us shooting the shit around a Zoom conversation. Chip Griffin: Well, and to your point, it’s a great jumping-off point. It’s not necessarily a final draft of everything, but, I mean, let’s say you, you know, you’re– you don’t consider your team very adept at creating social posts on their own, but you want to use PESO to amplify content. You can take that piece of content and say, you know, “Give me three to five drafts that I can look at.” Yep, yep. And you can pick the one that, that resonates most with you, and then, you know, hone that and use that as your post. So again, it just, it allows you to do things that either would’ve taken much longer a number of years ago or just you wouldn’t have been able to do without hiring someone new in-house or that sort of thing. And so having those opportunities means that you can adopt a lot more of the PESO model as an agency, which certainly benefits your clients, but it benefits your business as well. Because as we’ve talked about, pure PR agencies, despite the renaissance of the importance of earned media as a result of LLMs and all of that, you know, you still, I still think it is very difficult to have a media relations only agency in 2026. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: It’s not impossible. There are certain niches where it works and certain setups that work, but for the vast majority of old time traditional PR agencies, they need to be getting into more of the PESO model, even if it’s not all four letters. Even if you get into two of the letters- Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: that’s gonna help you a lot. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah, for sure. And it does– definitely helps you, like I think I’ve mentioned before that I have several different agents, AI agents, and one is my co-CEO, and my co-CEO, like, it will argue with me, and it will tell me, like last week it said, “That’s a stupid idea.” And I was like, “Ah, well, screw you, too.” But it helps you think through those things. So you say, “Okay, what if I want to build an agency that is focused around the PESO model, and I’m gonna go through the certification so that I can create an agency that’s focused on it. What am I missing? What do I need to hire for? What can I use you, my AI, for? What can I…” Like it helps you think through all of those things. “Help me build a plan to be able to do this over the next two years. I want to create some intellectual property based on what you know about me and how I’ve used you in the past. What is some intellectual property that we might be able to create as an agency?” It can help you with all sorts of things. Chip Griffin: It can, and it, it also, you can calibrate it to your own knowledge level or your team’s knowledge level, so you can have it just help you with some, some drafts. You can have it just teach you how to do things. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And I think that’s an often overlooked use of AI. Yes. Absolutely. It doesn’t have to do it for you, it can help educate you. Yep. And part of that is just communicating with it and say, “Treat me like I’m an absolute idiot.” Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: “And give me out- actual step-by-step instructions. Assume I don’t even know how to click the mouse. Like, tell me to put downward pressure on the button in the middle of the…” Like, you can make it tell you at whatever level of knowledge you need in order to become comfortable with it, and then you actually start to learn it. I mean, I think we, we all think of AI as something that, that’s, you know, can just replace us, but it can also help us learn so that we develop our own skills, and maybe we don’t need the AI for what we need it for today, but instead we can use AI to take us to the next level because we’ve already built in that knowledge from having worked with AI previously. It should be viewed as a growth opportunity, not as just, you know, the lazy way out. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I, absolutely. I love that because, you know, I kept hearing about this vibe coding thing, and everybody was talking about vibe coding. I was like, “Okay, I wanna try vibe coding. What do I want to vibe code?” And so I actually asked my AI boyfriend, “If you were me, what are some things you would vibe code just to test it out?” And it said, “You should do a PESO model diagnostic so that people understand where they sit on the PESO model maturity ladder.” And I was like, “Okay.” So I went into lovable.ai, and I built a PESO model visibility assessment is what I built first, and it was a really good first draft. And then I went through it and I had some friends take it, and I had my team go through it and got all of that feedback, and then I built the PESO model diagnostic from there. So it probably took– I probably had five or six versions before I was ready to take it public. Then I was like, Okay, now I have to figure out how somebody gets their results, and then how do I attach it to ActiveCampaign, which is our software, our email software, so that they can have their results emailed to them? It’s a little bit harder than it sounds. Chip Griffin: I, I think that’s, that’s part of the thing with vibe coding. People- Gini Dietrich: It’s absolute, yeah, a little bit harder. Yeah. But it did exactly what you said. Yeah. I was like, “I am lost.” Yeah. And I actually said, “I think this is above my pay grade.” And, and it said, “Okay, let me help you.” And so it broke it down step by step by step. We finally got it figured out, but then it wasn’t, it was doing everything that we needed it to do, but it wasn’t emailing. So I had all the tokens in the email, so like, “Hi, first name, here’s your…” Like, I had all those tokens, but it wasn’t triggering that. And so it helped me figure out, it like, it helped me troubleshoot and figure out why. And I, there’s no way on earth, not in a zillion years, I could have done that on my own two years ago. Absolutely not. Chip Griffin: Yep. And it really, it really is amazing how it can help you with some of those things. Now, it can also send you down some rabbit holes that are- Gini Dietrich: Yes, it did that too … Chip Griffin: not the right ones, and, and then- Gini Dietrich: Correct. I was like, “No, that’s not right.” Chip Griffin: And then it says, “Oops. Yeah, sorry. That’s, I, I didn’t mean to do… You’re right- Yep, you’re right. Mm-hmm … that I should’ve gone a different direction.” Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Yes, it does do that. Chip Griffin: And so, you know, that is always one of the challenges of vibe coding, is it opens a lot of doors, but it can lead to a lot of frustration, and you have to be ready to handle that. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: And particularly for someone like you, who has not been steeped in development in the past. Gini Dietrich: At all. Chip Griffin: You know, it probably takes more effort to get past that frustration than- Yeah … say, for someone like me, where I can spot early on that it’s going in the wrong direction, ’cause I’ve written code, and I’d be like- “Mm, I don’t- That does seem wrong, too … I don’t know if we really wanna do that.” Yeah. Yeah. And, but, but you can also ask it a lot of questions, and part- you know, I use Claude Code personally, and so, you know, it will often give options, or you can ask for options and say, you know, “Let’s go through the pros and cons of these different paths that we can do before we build out a whole product around something that we’re like, ‘Eh, that’s not gonna work.'” Gini Dietrich: Yep, yep. Chip Griffin: And you can think them through. You can think through what, what are the maintenance costs? What are the actual hard costs of it? Yep. And there are times where the tools will suggest something to you that, that costs something, and they’ll, it, it’s sort of like, you know, Waze. Waze sometimes likes to avoid tolls. I’m like, “Don’t, I don’t wanna avoid a toll. I wanna get there faster.” Gini Dietrich: I wanna get there faster, right. Chip Griffin: Like, to, to me, I don’t- Gini Dietrich: Yeah … Chip Griffin: don’t put me on all these weird side streets so I don’t pay a toll. Same thing with these tools. They often default to the free option, and sometimes you’re like, “Well, I’m willing to pay $5 a month to get this email sent to me correctly, and, and not have to, like- Right … go down to the command line and configure- Yeah … all this stuff. Yes. And then my computer’s always gotta be on, and all that kind of stuff. So, but the, the point is that that a lot of these tools open up the doors for the things that you can do, which then, again, expands that capability so that you are moving beyond just being one of the four letters and moving into at least two, if not all four, of PESO. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would say also that if you, if you want to do this, it’s not a small undertaking, but if you want to do this, you can, there are lots of ways that you can do this, but I’ll make it super, super simple. Using Claude, you can create projects. And the projects can be focused on, okay, we’re gonna have one for earned, we’re gonna have one for paid, we’re gonna have one for shared, we’re gonna have one for owned. And in those specific projects, you build files, knowledge files that teach it what you wanna do from an earned media perspective. These are our clients. This is what we talk about. These are their messaging. Like all– Here’s our media list. All that kind of stuff goes into the knowledge files. You give it some instructions, and then it becomes your earned media thought partner, or same with your other media types. So if you don’t have, you know, shared or owned and paid expertise internally, you can use those agents to help you build those things. I will say, though, that, you know, people keep talking about how AI is going to replace us, and I have gone way down the rabbit hole from an agent perspective, and I have built my entire organization using agents. It doesn’t replace anybody. I still need people to do the work, and I still need people to do the strategic thinking, and I still need people to service the client work. Like, it makes us smarter, it makes us faster, it makes us more productive, but it doesn’t replace anyone. And so I say that because I want you– I don’t want you to be afraid of, oh my gosh, if we use this and we use this, I use it to help me think through the other media types that we aren’t doing, that it’s going to replace us, or the clients aren’t gonna wanna work with us. That’s not the case at all, at least not in my experience. So I would say test it out, play with it, get really good at it, because it will help you achieve some of the goals that you want to achieve a lot faster than you can do it on your own. Chip Griffin: Oh, absolutely. And, and it doesn’t even require you to know even the general direction. You can simply go in there and say, “Hey, look, you know, I’ve got this blog post. It’s not getting much traction, but I feel like it should. Help me to understand why it’s not.” And, and- Yep … so it’ll help, it’ll analyze the structure and content and maybe make some suggestions there. But then in the conversation you can say, “Well, you know, it doesn’t seem to be generating much in the way of inbound traffic from social. Help me think that through. How can I do that better or differently?” And it, it allows you to do a lot more, and I think particularly for those agencies who are doing any form of video, AI can be a really good tool for helping you to expand the use of that video into other things, right? I mean, the obvious that we’ve had for years is the automatic transcription, right? So you start from a point of you’ve got a transcription and so you’ve got, you know, more content that’s out there that’s more easily indexable by more tools. You know, some of the LLMs, you know, quote-unquote “watch video,” some only can use transcripts, so you wanna give both ideally. Yep. But you can go well beyond that. I mean, a lot of people are just kind of slapping stuff up on YouTube without any kind of a good description if they’re doing video. Use AI. Let it, let it give you a quick first draft and you can do that correctly. Let it start drafting social posts so you can get it out there. Make sure that you’re turning every video into a blog post. There are so many things that you can do from that one nugget. It’s one of the reasons why I love video so much, is because it can spiral out into these other formats so easily. But all of that then helps to fuel your efforts on the PESO model, and all of it can be done in an organization without all of the things that you would have needed five or 10 years ago. You don’t need a dedicated video producer or a high-end external video, you can use something like we’re using right here today with Riverside, where you can just- free plug there. We’re not, we’re not sponsored by them, but- … you know, we, we use it, and it, it does a nice job of cutting this up. If you’re watching this on YouTube, it switches camera angles. I don’t do anything except click a little button that says, “Do this,” and I get to choose how aggressive the, the camera switching is. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: That’s fantastic, right? But it will also then clip things that you can use for social media. And if I’m a traditional PR agency, I don’t know anything about any of that kind of stuff, but it’s all valuable to furthering the PESO model for my clients. So why wouldn’t I be taking advantage of AI to help me go down that path? Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would say if you are a traditional PR agency, even things like, “This pitch isn’t landing. Tell me what you think.” Sure. “How would I… Like, I’m trying to reach this, this, and this reporter with this pitch. Analyze it for me.” Like, that kind of stuff you should be doing every single day. Chip Griffin: Right, ’cause the PESO model isn’t just about ticking boxes. It’s about doing all those things well, right? Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: You, you can have a nice little report card that says, “Check. I did the P. I did the E. I did the S. I did the O.” But are you doing all of those well? And, and- Right … maybe even what your agency is, is built around, whichever letter is the core of your personal expertise, there are certainly ways that you can use AI to improve even on that- Absolutely … even before you go down the other  avenues. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. Yeah. And one of the things that we’ve been, you know, when we, we evolved the model for AI into an operating system, and that is because all of the media types build on one another, right? So it will help you figure that out. So I can say PESO model’s now an operating system, and I’m sure you’re like, “I don’t know what the freak that means.” And it, it will help you figure out what that means and how you can apply that to your business. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, operating system may be one of the most overused product descriptions these days, but- Gini Dietrich: It works in an enterprise. Chip Griffin: everybody’s got an operating… you know, you read anything AI-related, everybody’s got an operating system. Gini Dietrich: Works in an, in an enterprise really well. Chip Griffin: It, it … Oh, I mean, I, I’m not arguing that. It’s just, it’s kind of, it, it’s kind of like 30 years ago where everybody used the word paradigm. Gini Dietrich: Oh, fair. Chip Griffin: Like, okay. Gini Dietrich: Really? PESO model paradigm. Chip Griffin: I gotta, gotta hear about- There, I like that. That’s nice … OS again. Ugh. Ugh. Of course- Ooh … I’m old enough to remember actual OSs back in the day. You know. MS-DOS, for example. Way, way long time ago. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: On that note, before I go down memory lane and really bore everybody, we’ll wrap this episode up. But use the PESO model, and use the AI to help you get there more effectively- Yes … faster. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yes. Chip Griffin: Grow your business, help your clients. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Make lots of money. Chip Griffin: Make lots of money. On that note, I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's APEX Express show is focused on food justice and Asian America. First, Host Miko Lee talks with artist Macy Tran about their work on food as a form of resistance, and then she speaks with researcher Dr. Milkie Vu around her work on food insecurity and Asian American communities.   Show TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:30] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight we're talking about food justice and Asian America. First, we talk with artist Macy Tran about their work on food as a form of resistance, and then we speak with researcher Dr. Milkie Vu around her work on food insecurity and Asian American communities. Join us tonight as we delve into food justice. Welcome to Apex Express, Macy Tran, I'm so happy to meet you.    [00:01:03] Macy Tran: I'm happy to meet you as well, Miko. Thanks for having me.   [00:01:06] Miko Lee: I just wanna start with the question I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    [00:01:13] Macy Tran: I come from a legacy of powerful Vietnamese people who were born and raised in Vietnam and now are part of the diaspora in Minnesota. I come from food peoples and healers and chefs and creatives of all sorts who have learned how to make ends meet and to adapt and to work with what they have. I come from a long line of people who have loved through food and who have used food as a means of cultural preservation and education and survival, which has now been passed on to me. There's so much to say about who I come from. My grandparents have stories of survival and resilience throughout the American War in Vietnam. And it's only because of just their love and the decisions they've made on behalf of their love that I am here today. My parents own a restaurant in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Vietnamese restaurant called Pho 79/Caravelle That has a 40 plus year legacy of serving Chinese and Vietnamese food to the Minneapolis community. It started with my grandma's brother, and then it passed down to my grandma. And now my grandma has since passed and has passed it down to my father and my mother. And so I like to say that it's restaurant people who raised me. I grew up sleeping in the booths and all of the aunties, even though they weren't blood aunties were my aunties. Because our survival was just so foundationally just predicated on food and what we served and shared with others, and also what we ate at home and the celebrations that we would have both at the restaurant and at home. This is really what makes me.    [00:03:20] Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing. Do you wanna talk more about the legacy part?   [00:03:24] Macy Tran: I carry a legacy of peoples who really know the importance of food and the way we use food to care and support each other. Even in the most hard of times when my family was. On a boat with 200 other people and didn't know if they were going to survive when they kind of landed abroad. The shores of Indonesia, food has been with them throughout it all, and it is how I was raised to love and care for people. I see the ways that food is not just a means for sustenance, but also as joy, as creativity, as love, and I carry all of those, decisions and skills with me.    [00:04:19] Miko Lee: Thank you so much. I learned first about your book when I read a piece that you wrote for 18 million Rising, and I'm wondering if you could just talk about how that piece around food as a form of resistance, how did that come about?   [00:04:33] Macy Tran: I have a friend who works with 18 million Rising, and since the federal occupation in Minneapolis, I've been doing a lot of food justice organizing here. And it has been a way in which I have seen and expressed just the skills and love that I give to my community. I was just feeling compelled to give food. That was what I knew. In the past two months as my friends have been going out on the streets following ICE agents around legally observing, I have felt that my role in this movement is to feed frontline folks who are out doing the work and also feeding our community during a time in which it's very scary and difficult to leave your home without fear of being abducted. In Minneapolis we have created systems of, food resource sharing that have been really powerful to witness and experience and to get engaged with. And so one way that I've been doing it is I've been cooking community meals most Sundays, sometimes Saturdays that feed 200 plus people.   [00:05:47] I am providing delicious food for my friends who are out on the streets and coming home and hungry and cold. And I also helped facilitate and organize a food distribution at my parents' restaurant after the murder of Alex Preti I really wanted to not just be involved in like acting and responding to what was happening but as an artist, as a creative, I felt the need for also remembering and preserving and reflecting about what's been going on in Minneapolis. I kept being pulled in all these different directions and was organizing over here and supporting this community and doing this. And then when my friend reached out to me at 18 million Rising,. It was such a great opportunity for me to really reflect on my practice of food as resistance and food as justice. I've been a food writer in the Twin Cities for about the past three years. Food, events, I mostly cover restaurant stories and festivals and theater and all that sort of stuff in the BIPOC community here in the Twin Cities. And I realized writing this piece that this was the first time in a while, that I had written something actually for myself from my heart that was in my voice. Without an editor saying, no, you have to say it this way. No, we have to cut that part out. No, you use too many words here, and so I really took this piece as an opportunity to share what my life was like here in my own words and my own experiences. And just use it as a moment to really reflect and share the things that I'm learning and the way that I am practicing and using food as a bridge to healing and transformation during this time in which we are ripe for needing that.   [00:07:47] Miko Lee: Can you roll back a little bit and talk to me about how you got started as an organizer? What, when you first learned about social justice work and what pulled you in?   [00:07:56] Macy Tran: It definitely wasn't the way that I was raised. I was born in the us my parents were born in Vietnam and then came over to the US and they really raised me with the mentality of you just put your head down and you work hard and you don't really get involved. And like, yeah, you care for others, but mostly you care for your family. I was actually someone who was always butting heads with my family because I was like, do you not see all of these issues that are happening in the world? Like the issue, the systems that were implicated in. We have to care beyond just ourselves, and we would always butt heads about that.   [00:08:33] Miko Lee: At what age did that start?    [00:08:35] Macy Tran: Oh, probably when I was a teenager. around that time I was finding my voice. and it wasn't until college that I really started putting words and frameworks and theory into what I have already witnessed in my family and my community, which is just community care and the ways that facilitates justice and transformation I would say since college that I really started actively organizing primarily on campus. I went to a smaller liberal arts school. So organizing and just getting involved in our community in that way was pretty easy. And like after I graduated college, I spent five years in Southeast Asia, one year in Vietnam, and then four years in Thailand where I was primarily working at the intersections of education and refugee justice and environmental justice. I got to meet all sorts of organizers and activists from across the region who have taught me. Really everything, a lot of what I know about organizing and what it means to show up specifically within a Southeast Asian context and how to use kind of my feet in both worlds, both my American political identity and my Southeast Asian political identity.   [00:09:59] And to merge those for the better and for my community. So I would say that. I've always had a big heart ever since I was little. And actually my parents were always like, you are too trusting. You people are gonna take advantage of you in the world. And I was like, I just wanna live in this world with so much love. And the way that they taught me to do that was. Through food and through reliability and just what it means to show up consistently for my people. And so in some ways it was all baked into me, even though they might not see that and they might not have raised me in that way. I see the ways in which they have sacrificed for love and nourished their families through food and made incredibly scary risks for the freedom of their family and for their people, and for a new life. And I just feel like I'm walking in their footsteps, doing the same even if they might not feel that way.    [00:11:09] Miko Lee: So did you have to talk your family and the restaurant into getting involved in the food support work for activists in Minnesota?   [00:11:18] Macy Tran: it wasn't a challenging conversation to have and I was surprised by that.    [00:11:22] Miko Lee: Oh, great.    [00:11:23] Macy Tran: Um, yeah, my parents have been, actually, this is the most politically active and vocal I have seen them. It's really incredible. I would say that for a lot of actually the Vietnamese community that I've been witnessing in Minneapolis, like they're saying things that I never thought that they would say. They're putting analysis like what together? The Vietnamese community is, I would say, skews at least the older generation, I should say. The older generation of Viet folks skews pretty right wing, conservative Republican, Trump supporting. And I'm just seeing dissent for the first time. It's not always like that explicit, but it is, I would say in the past what I've seen is just like. When kind of rightwing or more Republican opinions come up, if people disagree with that, it's just like you're just quiet. But now I'm seeing a way in which like people are responding, commenting on social media, like posting publicly about it. It's just been really, really powerful. When I first started organizing in response to the federal occupation, my parents were really quite worried and they did not want me to get involved. And they didn't really understand why I felt compelled to do this. And then when Alex Prety was murdered, I. It was actually my auntie, my mom's youngest sister that brought up the idea of a food distribution because she was feeling like I just wanna do something and like, what is an avenue in which we can do something? Well, we have this restaurant. Mm-hmm. And so she proposed it to my parents first, which Oh    [00:13:05] Miko Lee: wow.   [00:13:06] Macy Tran: Love, shout out to her because    [00:13:09] Miko Lee: Thank you, auntie.    [00:13:10] Macy Tran: She did right. She did the hard work for me. I think I would've been a little more hesitant or would've taken a little bit more time to just process, like how to go about asking them, because there's just a different power dynamic there. Sure. But because my auntie is more of a peer mm-hmm. And she had this idea and she has also worked at the restaurant mm-hmm. For many, many years of her life. I think it really spoke to my parents and I think it really was a moment for them to connect the ways that this restaurant is so important to not only our family and how we show up in community, but also to our community in Minneapolis. Mm-hmm. I have traveled all across the world and have met people who have eaten at Pho 79 and have told me stories of getting engaged there, of getting a tattoo of the, like restaurant on their, on their arm. The, the logo. Yeah, the logo. It's crazy, you know, like people, and I've also heard generations of families like growing up on my parents' food. Mm-hmm. As we share food with people and they support our business, it's only because of our community that we've been able to survive this far you know?. My parents came to Minnesota with nothing, and it's only because of the kindness of other Minnesotans and other Vietnamese Minnesotans that we were able to get anywhere.   [00:14:35] In this moment they saw that and they saw that. We can, we have these resources. This won't be hard for us. We have everything here that we need. This is the channel in which we can work in. And yeah, they were just ready to do it. I think also my parents were ready to take a risk because the business was not doing well, we weren't, there were not people coming out to eat. Everyone was scared to go out to eat. People were not really spending money. And this was really ever since the pandemic and the way that has impacted the restaurant industry and particularly immigrant businesses, and then also the George Floyd uprisings and the way that just the, violence and also the transformation that happened to the street that we were on Eat Street. It just really changed the ways people saw that corridor, that business corridor. And it was a really big business impact. And so my dad was just, I think, in a place where he was really willing to take a risk and a stand for what he believed in. And my mom as well. As a way to also just like. Really be present in community and show that, hey, like we are out here and we believe in loving our community and seeing the ways that people are showing up for our community as and for our business as well. And honestly, since the food distribution business has been steady and I think. My parents are, I mean, they're definitely feeling relieved, but I'm just feeling so grateful that they stood on their values, you know, and they stood grounded in that. And as a result, like the community is reciprocating. and that is such a beautiful thing that I don't, I think my dad took a risk not knowing what would happen, because more exposure is not always good. And I've been telling him that, you know, especially with the Vietnamese community being, of, of his genera generation being more right wing and more conservative. He recognizes that and he recognizes that we had to do something. So I feel so proud of them for just being really chill and okay, and actually impassioned and compelled to do something.   [00:16:57] Miko Lee: It sounds like it brought you a little bit closer with your family too.    [00:17:00] Macy Tran: Definitely. Definitely did. Yeah. I feel like me and my family have never really been able to sit at a table and talk about politics and what's going on in the world without one of us just like getting activated or feeling defensive or not seeing each other. It is a terrible thing what has happened and what continues to happen in our city, under federal occupation and so much beauty and creativity and love has come from it. And I even feel that at the most micro scale between me and my parents.    [00:17:39] Miko Lee: Can you, share with us that are not located in Minnesota, what the experience is like of this federal occupation on a day to day? Like, we're talking today on March 2nd, and I say that because our world, everything's changing every day and this is gonna air on a separate day. So I wanna name that. So right now, what is it like when you're just walking through the streets in downtown Minneapolis ?   [00:18:01] Macy Tran: Yeah. It's interesting because when you ask me this, I think about my experience like a month ago and how different it was and it felt to walk around a month ago compared to now. A month ago. It. I was seeing a neighbor on every corner of major streets, like looking for ice. You know, I was seeing car caravans, honking and following ICE agents. It's interesting 'cause like I actually just had a friend visit from Milwaukee and. She was nervous about ice. She's Asian American as well, and she was like, should I be scared? What's actually going on? And I told her, actually, yes, what's going on is scary and violent. And I feel so safe because I am meeting neighbors I have never met before. I'm making small talk with people who are just. Out on the streets walking their dog in a way that they would not normally, I'm talking to business owners, we're talking about the impacts of this occupation. Everywhere I go, there were eyes and that felt really powerful and strong. And now that operation Metro Surge is technically over they are supposed to be withdrawing ICE agents from the city. I would say there is definitely a decrease in the number of ICE agents in our city. Activity is much slower. However I would say out in the suburbs of Minneapolis and St. Paul, they are seeing action and enforcement from ICE agents. That is. Either at the, kind of the same amount that we were receiving or escalated. The concentration is higher out in the suburbs And so even though things were quieter in the city, they were elsewhere. And    [00:19:57] Miko Lee: yeah, I just saw videos this morning of protesters that were peacefully marching that just got tackled. Actually by Minnesota Sheriff's department working in conjunction with ice. I know every state in every region is a little bit different. But I thought that was something that Governor Waltz was working on right?    [00:20:15] Macy Tran: So actually the city ordinance that you are talking about is actually on a Minneapolis City level. So that was a decision made by Mayor Fray. Oh, that's only city. So it's only MPD, Minneapolis Police Department, who is not supposed to assist in, federal and right. Federal enforcement. However, on a county level, that's different. I see. So sheriffs might be working with, I know it's like, so complic, what a mess complicated. I    [00:20:41] Miko Lee: know. This is the same, I mean, this is the same everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. It's all broken down. Okay. So, so I think I hear you saying that ICE has kind of moved on with the targeted big city approach and they're going out into the suburbs instead. Is that right?    [00:20:57] Macy Tran: Yes. There are still protestors, and observers going every day to the Whipple building. The Whipple building is where ICE agents are coming from, and so they have definitely recorded a decrease in the number of ICE vehicles. So the volume isn't as high, but the cars are still coming and we're still seeing enforcement and violence in our neighborhoods. Just the other day, just a few streets down, a person was abducted in our neighborhood in Minneapolis. And because the volume isn't as high, they're not as easily able to track. And so they're working a lot more under the radar. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And their tactics have become just a lot more. Under the radar as well. In the early days in January, it was really easy to identify ICE out-of-state license plate, tinted windows. Big vehicles like super easy. Nowadays they're putting like coexist bumper stickers and little things on their dashboards and like, you know, driving little sedans and it's definitely not as easy and they're moving a lot more covertly. And because Operation Metro Surge has technically decreased and because many of our frontline activists have been working at this for months and are getting tired. Mm-hmm. There is a really interesting transition period happening here. Mm-hmm. Where I think we're all trying to align on what is the next.   [00:22:31] What's the next step? Mm-hmm. How? How are we, what is the best way to move given that this is the way that ICE is operating now? Yeah,    [00:22:40] Miko Lee: right. Just    [00:22:41] Macy Tran: under reflection. Mm-hmm.    [00:22:42] Miko Lee: Under such sneaky circumstances, like what they recently did in New York at Columbia, showing up at Columbia University with a missing child picture of a little kid. And that's how they got entry into the dorms, which is so wrong to terrible get a student. So that's actually illegal to like misrepresent being a police officer when they're not, they're a nice officer and    [00:23:05] Macy Tran: mm-hmm.    [00:23:06] Miko Lee: Showing a photo, I mean, it's so awful.    [00:23:08] Macy Tran: Mm-hmm.    [00:23:09] Miko Lee: I'm wondering how people that don't live in Minnesota can get involved.   [00:23:14] Macy Tran: Hmm. The, greatest frontier currently that is in need of support is rent support. There are, probably hundreds of maybe thousands of people who are likely at risk of eviction in the Twin Cities, because they have not been able to work for the past two months without fear of being abducted. We're calling on Governor Waltz for an eviction moratorium, which would prevent folks from being evicted. Governor Waltz is the only person who really has jurisdiction to implement an immediate rental moratorium, and he's done that before during the pandemic, and so we're trying to make arguments that this is. A state of emergency people are like not able, they weren't able to work. Like people are going to get evicted putting calls to his office, sending emails. So that's one way to get involved from abroad, uh, or not abroad outside of Minnesota, but also abroad if you're abroad And listening to this. The other way was, is that there's a lot of hyper-local organizing that is happening within Minneapolis that I can speak to every. Neighborhood and corner, I feel like, of Minneapolis is being accounted for usually by a team of just volunteer mutual aid groups who are fundraising for rent, who are fundraising for groceries who are fundraising for utilities.   [00:24:45] And these are all like live fundraising pages on the internet. And if you have even just 10, $20 to spare to help a Minneapolis resident, um, not get evicted in the next month. Um, every dollar matters. In this moment, rent is due. Soon, we're just at the beginning of March. And if folks aren't able to pay rent now and they haven't been able to pay rent in the last couple of months, like this is only going to have a snowball effect. We cannot risk vulnerable neighbors migrants, immigrants being, like more of them being unhoused at this moment. We already in our city have so many unhoused people who are not being cared for by our city officials, who are having their encampments being taken down and who are already not receiving adequate support. Our system cannot handle an influx of more unhoused people and we can prevent this. I would say that is kind of the biggest frontier at the moment in terms of what I'm seeing organizing on the ground.    [00:26:01] Miko Lee: Would you have links that you could share with us definitely for rent support. That would be really great if, and I'll definitely, I'll add them to the Apex Express show notes so folks that wanna get involved can contribute and help support community. You wrote in your piece about books, lovely books and podcasts and things that inspired you, which I always love hearing about those things. And one of the books you wrote about was Rice and Baguette, A History of Food in Vietnam. Can you talk a little bit about it, how it deepened your understanding of food legacies and resistance?    [00:26:33] Macy Tran: Mm So I read that book while I was living in Vietnam actually. So it was really cool for me to, what I love about that book, it's a little like academic. I will say that it is a food history like you are reading history, you know, it's a little bit like dense at some points, um, for    [00:26:49] Miko Lee: the real foodie audience.    [00:26:51] Macy Tran: For real. I'm like, if, yeah, exactly. And luckily that's me. I was into it. What I loved about it were, the legends, like there were some what I, so in Vietnam when I was living there, something that I loved and was learning more was that like Vietnamese people have so many legends about folk legends about food, like the origins of the watermelon,, the origins of our bunte cake, which is the cake that we eat, the sticky rice cake we eat during, lunar New Year. There are so many Food origin stories that I just did not grow up being raised on. And so, this book talked about some of like, how did pho even get started, you know, is pho even truly Vietnamese? It's, that's a debate I'm not gonna have right now. But. I loved just hearing the greater context in which all of this existed, especially not growing up with those stories and being,    [00:27:55] Miko Lee: Hey, wait, what is the origin of watermelon?    [00:27:58] Macy Tran: So it's this like funny little. Story where, this prince essentially gets banished to an island with his wife. And then on this random island, he finds this like incredible fruit, the watermelon, and he's like, whoa, this is so delicious. I want I must show this to the people back at home, but they won't have me because I'm banished. And then he basically floats the watermelon back to the mainland and they find it and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so incredible. We must, invite this man back to the mainland.    [00:28:38] Miko Lee: How did they know it was from him? Did he like carve his name in the watermelon?    [00:28:43] Macy Tran: I don't know. It's actually been a while since I've heard this story, so I could be just like. You know, I don't know all the details. That's    [00:28:50] Miko Lee: okay. That's always better anyway.   [00:28:53] Macy Tran: just stories like that. I love to hear them. I also learned about what it was like to eat and cook during foreign occupation when, oh, you know, the French were colonizers mm-hmm. When the Chinese were colonizers. Mm-hmm. And just the incredible Vietnamese food ways that emerged from those periods of colonization. Mm-hmm. They were both brutal and violent and also full of adaptation and creativity and survival foods. And so the book just talked about all of that, and I just love knowing those stories that help me know the ways in which our people have been able to survive for this long and are now free under, foreign  occupation.    [00:29:40] Miko Lee: Speaking of, you mentioned creativity and adaptability, and you are a multihyphenate person, as an artist, as an organizer, as a writer, as a visual artist, collage maker, I'm wondering how your artistry impacts your organizing and vice versa. How do they speak to each other? How do they influence each other?    [00:30:01] Macy Tran: Hmm. I am someone who, when there is an issue or a problem that arises, I'm often just confronting it with what can I do? What can I like feasibly do? How can I show up? And I think my artistic practices actually help me slow down. Even the ways that I can show up in community and do things in community, I'm very responsive. I'm always like, okay let's do a thing. Let's organize it. Let's get our hands dirty. I am out there, I am organizing people, you know, like tangibly. And I think the ways that my artistic practices partner with that is that my artistic practices help me reflect and remember and deepen and find spiritual grounding and purpose. my art is a way that I bridge conversations with my ancestors and I bridge what it means to know myself and be a person, a community member, a Vietnamese American daughter in this moment, right? And it reminds me of the skills that I have and wanna bring to the world. It also helps me create different narratives for understanding what's happening and. For finding creative solutions and for collaborating with others. So I think I would honestly be so burnt out and exhausted and sad if it were not for my artistic practices. I think it's because of my artistic practices that I find energy, that I find belonging, that I find meaning in the work that I'm doing.    [00:31:51] Miko Lee: I love that answer. Can you share, because you brought this up, can you share about a conversation or an interaction you've had with an ancestor and how that's influenced you recently?   [00:32:03] Macy Tran: Hmm. That's such a great question. I'm going to tie this answer into Lunar New Year because, lunar New Year is a time in which our material world and the spiritual world really can converge in a meaningful way, at least for me. And every year when I celebrate Lunar New Year, I will do something different. I deepen my practices. I just kind of deepen what I know about. Folk tradition and ancestor worship. And every year I learned new things and I wanna try new things. And so this year was the first year that I built a public altar space in my living room. Usually I just have it in my bedroom or in a small corner of my home somewhere that's like usually private. But I built like. It wasn't like a tiny little altar, like it was big, you know, like I had photos of all my relatives on there. I had flowers, I had five kinds of fruits. I had, you know, little, every time I ate a meal, I was putting a meal aside for my family to eat with me. And, Some cultures you don't eat the food that you leave on the altar, but in my family we do. And the reason for that is because we get to become one with our ancestors. We get to embody what our ancestors are and eat as well and their spirits, and so this past Lunar New Year, I actually threw a, I had celebrations on both sides of the family. And then I organized a new year party for my chosen family who came from all walks of life. And the prompt for the party, it was a potluck. The prompt for the potluck was cook something or bring something that your ancestors would be just delighted to eat on the altar. And so we    [00:34:00] Miko Lee: love that.    [00:34:01] Macy Tran: Oh yeah. It was so sweet. People came out with their best work, I should say, like the food was fantastic. Our ancestors were eating well, and I was sitting there. And this altar was full of tiny little plates of food, beautiful flowers. I also asked people to bring pictures, photos of their ancestors or people that they wanna honor. Incense were lit. The room was filled with incense smoke, and I was just, there was a moment where I was just, kinda in the corner of the room just watching, you know, and I had a feeling like, wow, all of our ancestors are hanging out right now. Not only are me and my chosen family, you know, building a community and belonging for ourselves but also like. I could have never, and probably they could have never predicted that my friend's like Jewish grandpa was hanging out with my Vietnamese grandmother and grandfather, you know, or yeah, my friends like grandparents from Antigua are now hanging out with like my family members and it's, it was just a moment where I just felt not just the joy.   [00:35:16] And love in the space of connecting with my real, like my friends in that moment. But also just the miraculousness of what it meant to hold all of our ancestors in that space. And so, after that I ended up writing a piece on my substack, actually as a letter to my ancestors. I, I kept the altar up for a week, a week and a half. And on the last day I was ready to take it down and move it back upstairs into my room. But on the last day, I thought, I'm gonna light the incense one more time. And have my ancestors in the space as I write this piece to them. There were so many things I wanted to say to them. And also at the same time, I felt like as I was writing, they were saying things to me, this is what I have to teach you in this moment, is kind of what they were saying to me. This is like, this is what it's like to celebrate that under occupation. This is what it was like when we thought it wasn't even possible to celebrate Tet. Like we had literally nothing but rice and water and yet we still did, and my grandma recently passed a I mean, it's not so recent anymore, but it's been just over a year now. And she was like, One of the first like major deaths of the elder generation in my family. And Tet was the time that I could commune with her and share love with her. And, I could just feel her presence in the space and I would even, memories felt like a way that she was talking to me. The memory of just the crackle of her sesame balls, like she made the best sesame balls. They were like. Thin and crispy and fluffy, but also like so like they were not skimping on the mung bean on the inside. It was fantastic. So I'm just like, I haven't had a sesame ball from her in over a year, but I can remember how it tastes and feels, and my mouth and that memory itself is a message from her. To remember what has fed me through so many years, and how important it is to just remember the, not only just the foods that we eat, but the people that have loved that food into existence. And now me, you know,    [00:37:38] Miko Lee: have you made it the dish, the sesame balls.    [00:37:43] Macy Tran: I actually have her recipe books, so I planned to I just didn't have time, this past Tet, but me and my brother were going to, and then I think we decided we wanted to do it on just like on a lower key day, like instead of like in the midst of just like so much family celebration, there was so much to prepare and we were like, let's just plan a low key weekend where it's just me and you and there's no timeline and we don't have to get this anywhere and they don't have to be perfect. Like    [00:38:14] Miko Lee: that sounds lovely. So it's personal and it's family and Exactly. And if for a one year anniversary, death anniversary is coming up, that might be a great time to honor her.    [00:38:22] Macy Tran: Exactly. Exactly.    [00:38:24] Miko Lee: I'm wondering what was like some standout dishes from that lovely event to you?    [00:38:29] Macy Tran: Ooh. I mean, I will talk about the dish I made.   [00:38:33] Miko Lee: Okay.    [00:38:36] Macy Tran: Which I thought was fantastic and I think my friends also thought were delicious. Was delicious. Um, but a dish that is commonly eaten during the lunar new year for Vietnamese people is a tit ka, which is a caramelized, braised pork belly. This caramelized, braised pork was stewing for probably three hours. Wow. And so, yeah, and I used coconut water with it. I didn't like, straight up coconut water and it    [00:39:04] Miko Lee: no Coca-Cola.    [00:39:06] Macy Tran: No Coca-Cola not in this one. And I just made a huge, huge pot and it was basically almost all gone by the end of the night. So that was like a really good feeling. Um, my brother made an incredible duck heart lap. He works at Diane's Place, actually, it's a famous Hmong restaurant in Minneapolis. And they processed duck on the menu. And so he had like access to all these duck organs and he made an incredible loup that he brought to the party. And my, one of my little sisters, Iris, she's Puerto Rican and she made like tostones, like fried plantains and then she also made Puerto Rican rice, and she, she made like three or four dishes. So like, people really went above and beyond for their ancestors. I could really, I mean, it was probably like 20 people who came to this party, so there were so many dishes and they were all. So good. So I, I don't wanna, once I get into it, I'm gonna go into it, so I'm not gonna chat your ear off.    [00:40:13] Miko Lee: Sounds lovely. Sounds yummy. Mm-hmm. And my last question is, I'm wondering what manifestation for the year of the horse you have for yourself.    [00:40:23] Macy Tran: The 18 million rising essay that I wrote came, it was right before the lunar new year that it got published. And it came during a time where I was already thinking a lot about my creative practice and how in, in relationship my creative practice in relationship with also the ways that I organize and the ways that I cook and, organize around food. And when this opportunity for this essay emerged and just the way it has been received has been such an honor, like, because I haven't written for myself, you know, in so long and like really with my own voice I just didn't realize that people were going to resonate with it so much and find like an invitation to engage in food justice themselves and their own ancestry. And also the ways that it made them think about food and their relationship to food. And it was such a blessing for me to receive that resonance from people, you know, and to receive, just the stories that I've heard and the way it spoke to them. And I felt like that has been a blessing for me to just really expand my creative practice and be more public with it. I'm like, dang, if this little thing that I wrote impacted people in the way that they think about the world, like. I have so many more ideas I wanna share and like be in partnership with others about.   [00:41:57] And I just launched my Substack, right after the Lunar New Year and I was like, all right, you're the fire horse. Let's freaking go. I am ready, I am running. So, I just wanna be creating so much and like act manifesting and actualizing a lot of the dreams that I have, my creative dreams that I have continued to put on the back burner. Things about hosting supper clubs and doing more work around my parents' restaurant, like helping them create narrative around the restaurant and sharing our restaurant story with people. And just using my words and experiences as a way to connect with the world and also be open to the ways that people wanna connect with me. So that's kind of the ways that I'm, I'm seeing this year unfold already, and it's already started with a bang. I also wanna add that year of the fire horse for me is just a lot about movement and progress. And so in this sense movement, I think of social movements and the ways that social this particular social movement against ICE in our city will fundamentally. Impact us for the next lunar year. It happened right at the beginning of the lunar New Year and it's going to have deep effects into the year, and we will forever be changed by this. And I am so excited to see the ways in which we harness this energy for transformation, for care into something that's really meaningful.   [00:43:37] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. It was a delight to talk with you.    [00:43:42] Macy Tran: Thank you, Miko. This was so great. Thanks for having me.   [00:43:45] Miko Lee: Next up, listen to researcher professor, Dr. Milkie Vu, speak on her exploration on Asian Americans and food insecurities. Welcome, Dr. Milkie Vu, assistant professor at Northwestern. Welcome so much to Apex Express.    [00:44:04] Dr. Milkie Vu: Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.    [00:44:07] Miko Lee: Dr. Milkie is a mixed methods researcher focusing on community engagement and health issues, and I'm excited to talk with you today. I wanna start by first asking the question that I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:44:24] Dr. Milkie Vu: My people are the Vietnamese community, and when I think of my people, the first word that comes to my mind is resilience. I was raised in Vietnam. I speak Vietnamese fluently and I embrace my culture very deeply. I carry the memory of my parents and grandparents who have lived to colonization multiple world. And the challenge of post-war poverty and the ability to, endure all these hardship is the legacy that I bring with me and in my day to day life it acts as a personal life of hope for me and then professionally in the. Work that I do is really a foundation and it drives my dedication and commitment to working on health solution with Asian American and immigrant communities who have similar stories of hardship, but also perseverance.   [00:45:19] Miko Lee: Thank you so much. I really appreciate how your background has informed the work that you're doing, and I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about this study, this scoping review on food insecurity among Asian Americans. Can you one first start off by breaking down what a scoping review is.   [00:45:37] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. So a scoping review is essentially a methodology that we use to be able to summarize existing scientific literature and try to understand how this literature. Answer research questions that we have.   [00:45:56] Miko Lee: Can you tell me what inspired this study?    [00:45:59] Dr. Milkie Vu: I've done community engaged research with, Asian American population for over a decade. In doing so, I have come to realize , as an anecdotal evidence, how food insecurity is a issue in the community. And yet that's very little that has been, done in terms of research or policy that target this problem., So for example, the US Department of Agriculture, will publish annually a report on food insecurity in America and it will include several, racial and ethnic populations, but Asian Americans are frequently ommitted from that report. So, you know, at the national level, that data doesn't exist, which then, makes it very difficult to understand what is the severity of the problem and what are some of the solutions that could be done to address them. So that's why we were interested in doing a deeper dive into summarizing the literature too be able to see what has been done about this problem and what are some of the barriers that exist, towards food security for community members, and what are some of the literature gaps? Our review was published in 2024 was the first scientific review of the literature on food insecurity among Asian Americans.    [00:47:27] Miko Lee: And what did your study uncover?    [00:47:31] Dr. Milkie Vu: We documented several important findings. There is a lack of existing data on this problem. Due to this myth of Asian Americans being the model minority. Assuming that Asian Americans are uniformly successful socioeconomically and thus not experiencing, any challenge including food insecurity. One of the things that we found is the importance of data disaggregation and looking at food insecurity in different Asian origin groups. We found that food insecurity really varied. So for example, if you look at some groups like Japanese Americans, we found the prevalence of between two to 11% of the population reporting food insecurity. But then if you look at some of the Southeast Asian groups, for example, Filipinos or Hmong American or Vietnamese, the rates are much higher. So the studies that we found report, between eight to 41% of food insecurity and among Filipino population. Close to 48% for more Hmong American, and then between 14 or 28% for Vietnamese Americans, so much higher than the rates for other groups.   [00:48:48] Data Dion is important and there shouldn't be this grouping of different Asian groups in research because then it really erased like the struggles specific communities with food insecurity. I think the other finding that was really important is looking at more systemic or structural barriers that prevent people from being food secure. Our review found that limited English proficiency is a important driver of food insecurity. The lack of appropriate language services, whether that's food pantry or for things like snap navigation. These could be important target point infusion policy or interventions that could help address food insecurity, community members. We also look at a couple of qualitative studies that found really interesting things. So for example, even when Asian American community members do use food assistance programs like snap, the benefits are often not sufficient. And they have a negative experience. There's also fear of how that might negatively impact the immigration status or application. Those are important barriers that should be acknowledge.   [00:50:08] Miko Lee: Some of these numbers are so high. You mentioned 48% with Hmong folks with, it's just so surprising, and I wonder if there's a sense of the why some of these communities have a higher food insecurity than others.    [00:50:21] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, one of the things that we did point out in the conclusion was the need for just more studies focusing on these, smaller Asian groups or smaller Asian population that are done in like the appropriate language to be. From some of the experience I've had, part of it is probably shaped by, the historical conditions to which some of these, communities might have come to the us. For example, thinking about my community Vietnamese, coming to America as refugees, fleeing persecution or free fleeing war and how that, historical conditions might create structural and socioeconomic challenge in Britain, in the community. I am also curious about is the availability of service and program that are linguistically appropriate or, providing culturally relevant food for these communities. So those are important points that we can hypothesize, but obviously more research is needed to understand, the root cause of these challenge and how to address them.   [00:51:28] Miko Lee: And were you focused on specific regions or this was national?    [00:51:34] Dr. Milkie Vu: I'm really glad that you asked about this. So the review itself is, summarizing all published literature focusing on Asian Americans. All of the studies take place in the us. A lot of the, studies probably focus on data that are from the coast. So either on Asian American, on the east coast or the west coast. , But we looked at the study like from a nationwide angle and I'm also happy to talk about some of the new committee organizations in Chicago looking at food insecurity and community-based solutions to address that among Asian Americans. Part of the motivation for the follow-up study was just thinking about the lack of data focusing on the Midwest or Chicago where I live.    [00:52:20] Miko Lee: Please, I'd love to hear more about that . [00:52:23] Dr. Milkie Vu: The COVID pandemic, had brought a lot challenges for food insecurity. For people nationwide in general, but then for Asian American, there's also this, so what I call like the double, almost like a double pandemic, like the waves of entire Asian violence and hate crimes. And so thinking about how that impact food insecurity in general among, Asian American community members. About two years ago, we interviewed around, 13 organizations in Chicago. All of them are either community based organizations, social services or food pantry, working with, primarily with Asian American community members, from diverse groups: korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino, south Asian, Mongolian, et cetera throughout Chicago. And the question that we asked them was, thinking about what programs they have offered during the COVID pandemic that aim at reducing food insecurity among community members. How did they implement this program? Who are some of the vulnerable populations served by the program? How did the pandemic as far as anti-Asian racism impact the program organization? That was the first study that looked at how community organization in Chicago help address this issue of insecurity on this, the COVID pandemic.   [00:53:57] Miko Lee: And so what is the next step for this study or what is the next piece that you're working on as connected to this?    [00:54:05] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah. Think about the role of the community organization as grassroots organizations that work from the ground up , as opposed to more top down program structure. They're doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help community members address food insecurity, because they know the community very well. They are able to provide the in language service that community members need. They're also trusted by community members. So a lot of the time,, certain populations especially say if those with limited their English proficiency or, more newly arrived immigrants, might feel more comfortable going here as opposed to going to this organization as opposed to, another one that are more generic and don't have the staff that speak the right language. I think the other thing is, staff with the similar cultural backgrounds are able to understand. There was one quote from the study that I did in Chicago. That stuck with me. When we tell them you could go to the food bank, the American food is not quite tailored to their taste. So they will get a big chunk of cheese and they will be like, what is this? Nobody wants to eat this. Again, thinking about the role of committee organization as so important in knowing the language, knowing the cultural preferences. And then just thinking of ways that we can further support, the programs and operations that they do. This is a really challenging time for nonprofits, social service organization, both in terms of providing food as well as other social service to Asian American and immigrant communities. How can research from a place like, researchers, from academia like me, are able to partner with them to further the service that they do and be able to find the funding that support them and community members. I think that's the important step for me.   [00:56:02] Miko Lee: Dr. Vu, how can folks find out more about your work?    [00:56:06] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, In order to understand more about the work that we do, so we have a website, for our lab that frequently include, you know, like our current projects as well as publications. So you can go to site, so SI ts.northwestern.edu/vu group. and you'll be able to find more information about the research that we published. We've also recently, in the beginning of the year start, to find ways to disseminate research on social media. So we also have a Facebook group for our lab that disseminates our research findings as well as include information about the community members and partners Other trainees in the lab that make this work possible. The labs Facebook group is at facebook.com/maybe give research. and then you can always reach out to me via my email milkie.vu@northwestern.edu So I'm glad to connect with people who have similar research interests or would like to learn more about the work that we do.   [00:57:06] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your information about your important work that you're doing on research with Asian American community. Appreciate hearing from you.    [00:57:15] Dr. Milkie Vu: Thank you so much.   [00:57:18] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 6.4.26 – Food Justice appeared first on KPFA.

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We've informally heard that Satya is a listener to LS for a couple years now, but it was still absolutely surreal to meet him and do a live pod at Build, together with our friends at No Priors, the leading VC AI Podcast that we also greatly admire!We covered the MAI model technical takeaways on yesterday's AINews, so I will focus our recap of Satya's main messages around three elements:* Satya's adaptation of the Bill Gates Line for positioning Microsoft as the Frontier Intelligence Platform — customers must gain much more value from the Microsoft ecosystem than Microsoft itself, by building on multi-model harnesses like OpenClaw and Scout, drawing on the full enterprise context exposed by context layers like Work IQ (heavily dogfooded by his C-suite), and building up private evals and traces as a new form of Token IP* AI ROI: On one hand, enterprises are having difficult conversations around Tokenmaxxing and Layoffs, and on the other hand, there are serious re-evaluations of the End of SaaS since the Build vs Buy equation has changed so much. Our previous SemiAnalysis guest had… interesting comments on Microsoft's position on this as the ur-SaaS titan, and Satya had great answers* Making the Impossible Possible: Kevin Scott's inspiring framing around what the most ambitious version of applying AI and technology at large to business and social problems, like education and social impact.Enjoy!Full VideoTranscriptVoiceover: Welcome swyx, Sarah Guo, Elad Gil,, and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Microsoft, Satya NadellaSarah Guo: Welcome to a crossover episode of No Priors and Lane Space with Satya Nadella. Um, congratulations on an amazing build. No, thank you so much, and it's great to be with both of you. I listen to both of you or b- both the podcasts all the time. It's great to be on it.Thank you so much. [00:01:00] So you're just talking about, um, these amazing, uh, announcements from across the Microsoft estate all morning for, I think, three hours. What is the, uh, what's the most important reflection or takeaway you have?AI as an Ecosystem PlatformSarah Guo: I, I'd say there are, uh, perhaps the, the biggest one for me is let's sort of conceptualize this more as an ecosystem play as opposed to a single model or even a single platform, right?Satya Nadella: I mean, you know, whatever I... At least for me, having grown up at Microsoft, having seen, whatever, four major platform shifts, uh, I sort of fall into that, um, uh, camp where a platform is defined by fundamentally its ability to create more value about the platform versus what's captured in the platform. And so if you, you view what's happening right now, I think this morning's keynote was how can any company, whether it's an AI native company or a traditional enterprise company, participate as a first-class participant where they can point to AI they created, [00:02:00] right?It's not that they don't use other people's AI. Of course they will. But to me, what's the path? What's the recipe? How do I do it? What does a stack look like? What does the tooling look like? What is valuable? How do you do that? That's it. That's sort of our job to do. Yeah. Ecosystem strategy is, uh, very complicated, right?Sarah Guo: Because you end up building certain components, partnering for certain components, supporting them. You just announced this big suite of models. Like, tell us a little bit about the, uh, training strategy for Microsoft now. Yeah.MAI Models & Training StrategySarah Guo: So, so the thing that we wanted to do with the MAI models was to build, and as Mustafa talked about, first of all, a great lineage, right?Satya Nadella: Starting with pre-training, uh, with very good data quality, uh, doing all the ablations, making sure because in, in some sense it's becoming even harder to build a clean lineage model just because there's so much stuff out there, uh, that you truly need to ablate out to be able to have a fantastic [00:03:00] pre-trained model.In fact, that's one of the challenges of a lot of the open weight models is they look great on one benchmark or two, but they're not great on practice. So that's why, in fact, even in the RFDEs are, they, they are pretty gone really excited about these MAI models because how the heck can a small five B model hill climb?Uh, and it goes back a little bit to what I think is ultimately the key thing to do, which is try to pursue finding that cognitive core. Uh, so to me, starting with a clean lineage- Then creating that ability for companies to be able to use this, right? Not just as a generalist, but to create their own specialist by building this hill climbing scaffold around it, right?So it's not just the model, but you have a hill climb scaffold around it, then you will start building your RLE. You will start collecting the traces. Most importantly, you'll have private evals because we know all the evals out there are good, interesting, [00:04:00] but they're not really that critical- They're work, yeahSwyx: at this point because they all can be maxed. And so the point is each company will have its own private eval. And so that end-to-end platform story around our models is sort of, uh, what I think is interesting. And then the one other thing, Sarah, since you brought that up, is I do feel there's a new frontier.Satya Nadella: Like people talk about the frontier and are you operating at the frontier. Um, interestingly enough, if you add a little temporality to it, you can use, let's say, in, in, in fact, the, the Lando Lakes demo we showed was pretty cool. We used, whatever, GPT-55, right? Then you collected a bunch of traces, and then you took a 5B reasoning model and achieved higher.Sarah Guo: Uh, so that is another aspect of what it means to appear... uh, you know, operate at the frontier Yeah. I, I think, uh, I first of all have to congratulate you on basically building a frontier neo lab inside of Microsoft in two years. Um, I'm wondering, you know, you have all this AI strategy that you're rolling out.Lessons from Two Years of AI DevelopmentSwyx: I'm wondering, what do you know now that you wish you would tell yourself two years ago where- or two or [00:05:00] three years ago? Three years for the Jensen partnership, two years for, uh, MEI. Yeah, I mean, I think the, the thing when, that I reflect quite a bit, right, which is sort of obviously I got into all this when I got excited by the, the scaling laws paper and, you know, when, you know, even the OpenAI partnership came about when those folks said, “Hey, we're gonna really throw a lot of computer transformers.”Satya Nadella: Uh, and they've helped. I- the thing that I always look back and say, “Wow, these things, uh, do have capability that they're climbing up.” W- I mean, this, you know, this crude way of saying it is intelligence is log of compute kind of works. Now what I think we underestimated perhaps is the real-world complexity of deploying these so that they actually deliver the value in the real world, right?So the outcomes as measured by any benchmark is interestingly important, but the true eval is when people out there are able to do unique things that they only can value, and it's very [00:06:00] measurable, right? That I wish we had sort of even, like, had more in our consciousness, right? Which is as an industry.Sarah Guo: Because right now I think when people say, “Wow, I don't want a token max,” it's an artifact of us not having thought ourselves as an industry that we are using tokens to create value every step of the way. So I think that's kind of what I wish we had gotten there, but I'm glad we are here.Real-World Value & Use CasesSarah Guo: What are some of the use cases that you've seen that have created the most value for your customers?Because I know that people talk a lot about code, and I think it's pretty clear that that's something that's having very large scale impact. Are there other areas that you find in common that your customers are really benefiting from? Yeah. I think, yeah, to your point, obviously coding is now got... But it's interesting, by the way, Elijah, to even talk about the coding, right?Satya Nadella: Which is coding has worked so well that we now have to rebuild the IDE, right? I mean, it's kind of nuts to see what we sh- launched is like, oh my God, I have these hundred agent sessions. I... The cognitive load it transfers back to me as a human is so [00:07:00] excessive that now I need a new UI. Uh, oh, by the way, I, like the, the chat as the only artifact was also impossible, so that's why we need a canvas.So it's kind of interesting for all the things about where is software needed or where is UI needed, uh, you kind of need that even for code, right? In a fully agentic world. But that said, one of the things that we are starting to see, we started seeing with co-work, but even some of the work we, we showed with auto com- uh, um, autopilot Right on what you see with claws is a good one because if you sort of think about a lot of human capital is doing the glue work, right?If you now can augment that with tokens/agents that are long-running, durable, right, then your ability to scale even what is still judgment and glue work gets amplified like coding does. Uh, so you can... Like, I'm positive that six months from now we'll all be saying, “Oh, wow,” like, all through ni- the night there was a bunch of stuff that [00:08:00] all these autopilots that I have working on my behalf with my delegated authority, so to speak, right?I can... Sort of given even my identity, did a bunch of work, then of course I'll need my new ADE to say, “Well, what did you do?” Like, I might... “Did I do this work?” And so on. So I think that that's where compressing of workflows, uh, completing of tasks, uh, that's where I think a lot of the value gets created. I think you raised a really interesting point, which is there's the actual agent that's doing the code, and then there's a harness around it, and that's the environment, that's the context, that's everything you're setting up as a developer around actually a coding agent.The Harness Concept for Enterprise AISarah Guo: What is the harness for the enterprise? Is there an equivalent concept for broader productivity work, or how do you think about that concept sort of generalized? That's right. So, so in some sense you kind of want the harness to define the models, the, the data, uh, and the tools, and so that you have a loop across those three.Satya Nadella: And so what we are trying to, first of all, make sure is each of our products that we build, right, whether it's GitHub Copilot or the security copi- the, the [00:09:00] stuff we showed with MDASH or even the discovery for science, it doesn't matter, all of them are multi-model harnesses, um, with tools access so that you can do this progressive, uh, disclosure of tools even so that they're token efficient.Uh, and then you're feeding it with very rich context because that's sort of the other hard lesson we have learned in the last two years is, oh my God, the amount of work you need to do to prep the context layer, uh, such that your plan can execute in the most efficient way is where the magic is. So we have, in our case, we have the GitHub harness, which essentially we're using across all our products.It's available in Foundry, and we are open, like you can use your Llama harness, whatever. Or you can use the, um, uh, you know, any open harness or any harness of yours and train with your tools and multiple models and your context. And so that's the pitch. Because right now a lot of dialogue is, um, “Hey, if I train the harness plus tools and the model together, you get [00:10:00] evals.”Elad Gil: And what we are proving out is... And the best example of that is what we did with MDASH, right? Because when it launched, uh, it found bugs or vulnerabilities that were not found by Mythos Uh, and so there is existence proof, I would claim, that you can have a multimodal harness, uh, that can in fact be more, uh, performant in the real world So a premise behind the, uh, training at the independent frontier labs is really, you know, we're gonna have these models, and we'll have an API business, and we'll support enterprises and startups.Sarah Guo: ButPlatform Strategy & Developer EcosystemSarah Guo: a first-party product, be it productivity or code or search, drives the majority of revenue. That's a different value equation than you're describing, I think, with the Microsoft ecosystem. Uh, if, if that's the case, tell me if it's the case, uh, ‘cause obviously you have first-party products and you have enablement products.Satya Nadella: Um, what is the role of the develop- Like what is gonna be hard and the set of skills and the value capture the developer has in that world? Yeah. So I think that there's always [00:11:00] gonna be the case that someone who is super successful in- as a platform builder can also have first-party products. It was true with Windows.It is true, uh, with, uh, the, the SaaS side and the cloud side as well with us and others and so on. But the thing that is, is it should not be a limiter to other people achieving that same success, right? That I think is the core difference, which is the, the network effects this time around, around intelligence are such because they learn from data, and not really lots of data.It's just a few samples that you have to see to understand what's novel about something. So that's why the game becomes how to protect. So that's why I would say every company, having private evals may be the biggest IP, right? Think about it, like what's that private eval that you can then use even a frontier model to hill climb on and not leak the traces may be one of the biggest [00:12:00] drivers, uh, of IP.Like, so in other words, another te- acid test is you have an eval that's private. You're using, uh, a g- a Model A. Can you switch it to Model B and e- you know, climb up? If you can, then you're in control. If you can't, you're not in control, and that's where even the harness decision becomes super important, right?swyx So therefore, having an open harness, letting all models come in, having your evals, your context, your tools help you hill climb, I think is the skills that an AI native startup needs, a SaaS company needs, or every enterprise needs. Yeah, I think in, in a very real way you are ... Microsoft historically is an operating systems company and th- then become a cloud company.Maybe like the third act is that you're a harness or evals company. Whatever w- ... whatever the, the sort of conglomerate of concepts that you wanna put together. Um, and, and I think like enabling every company to have like frontier intelligence or what- what- Yeah ... I forget the, the [00:13:00] exact term that you used, um, is the, is the mission, right?Satya Nadella: That's it. Like that is, that is the platform promise, that you build with us, you will get your intelligence, uh, for your data. That's it. That ... To, to me, that is the ... Like if there was one tagline, uh, for this entire developer conference is- Can everybody operate at the frontier with their frontier intelligence, right?To me, that is so important because otherwise it, I, I don't know how you achieve stable equilibrium, right? Which is how do I then go and say, “Well, my company is gonna have a terminal value because I now know how to continuously compound-” Yeah ... on top of what's a platform that gets better,” right? So when, like Windows obviously came out, Adobe built, Autodesk built, uh, or even like take what Jensen said.We built DX and he built, you know, CUDA on top of it. Um, right? I mean, I always say to Jensen, “God, I got the short end of that,” right? “I wish, uh, we had recognized it.” But nevertheless, but that, that idea that you can build a platform layer [00:14:00] that someone else can then extend out, um, and build their own intelligence layer in this case, I think is everything, right?Without it, why have a developer conference? I can just come and have you all sort of just worship at the altar of one model. Yeah. But that's not a developer conference. Uh,IP, Evals & Company Valueswyx: backstage we, we had a discussion about what is IP or what is the, the value in a company. It used to be the length of, uh, human experience at a company, and now it's this other thing which is the evals, the, uh, experience in sort of applying agents to the company. Can you... I just want you to like flesh that out a bit more ‘cause- Yeah ... it was very insightful.Satya Nadella: It's a great way to frame it, right? Because yeah, at the end of the day, every company is gonna have both the human capital that is still gonna be super valuable, uh, because humans, uh, and their ability to find the gaps that exist at all times is going to be the way we all will create value, right?I mean, so I'm definitely in the camp that this is going to be about expressing new forms of human agency and ambition even as token capital goes up, right? So let's say a cor- any corporation [00:15:00] has lots of tokens and lot of human capital. The question is how do you compound the two? So if you have a... Like if you take in Teams I have a bunch of agents doing work and a bunch of humans doing work, and the traces between those, that is really important context of how that enterprise is creating value.Then that goes back to train not a generalist model, but to train the company veteran agent, uh, right? That is super valuable again, right? Which is when a company goes says, “It should in fact go onto the balance sheet,” is how I think about it, right? That's so... In fact, there may be... Like human capital was never possible to go put on a balance sheet, uh, because you didn't know how to capture the tacit knowledge.swyx: Whereas now I think you can with the agents that have learned through the h- through, through time, through all the traces. Uh, so that's what at least we think will happen. I, I think the SEC is gonna have to have accounting standards- ... for token, uh, expertise Uh, y- y- you're talking about the equilibrium [00:16:00] state, um, and a stable equilibrium where companies have this compounding value and can see terminal value for themselves.Future of SaaS & Business ModelsSarah Guo: Another challenge to, you know, the considered equilibrium of, okay, there are applications and workflows that are sort of common to a vertical or a horizontal. Um, and this was, like, the generation of SaaS companies and, you know, Microsoft has lots of SaaS properties as well. And then there are things that are very specific to every enterprise that they're differentiated against.Elad Gil: Um, I'm sure you have heard much and participate in much of the debate about the end of software because all these workflows are, are cheap to generate now. Um, do you think the equilibrium looks different between what agents get built- Yeah ... in enterprises versus in their vendors in the future? Yeah. So I think what's happening there is, see, we, we had a particular way we captured, um, I would say workflow in apps, right?Satya Nadella: Because we built a, a data model, right? We schematized some part of some business process. Mm-hmm. We then built a bunch of business logic. Yep. And then we put a bunch of UI [00:17:00] on top of it, right? So that's kind of what every SaaS company- And a little configuration. For, like, 20, 20 years that was the plan.Right, that- Yeah ... and that was it. So interestingly enough, now you kind of get to re-litigate that vertical stacking, right? So I still think, for example, that data model that you built underneath every SaaS application is super good, right? Like, why reinvent it? Like, I, I, my general ledger better be a general ledger.I don't need new schema creation. No. Uh, in fact, that entity relationship, uh, is actually pretty good, robust thing that I want to feed. And you want it to be stable. That's right. Yeah. Then same thing with business logic, right? If, if you look at, uh... We have this product called Power BI, right? It is like dashboards galore people created.The beauty underneath that dashboard is a very rich semantic model, right? Someone took the pain to create a dashboard and do all the measures, and you want that. That's business logic, right? I want that to be available to me. So I think the [00:18:00] challenge of the SaaS business model is we packaged one way. We now have to learn how to unbundle these things and rebundle in new ways and discover new business models, right?I mean, if you look at it, d- what's happening today with Microsoft 365 is a great example, right? We have this thing called Work IQ. In fact, like, what we are realizing is, oh my God, like, you know, if you look at... In fact, there's a pa- historical parallel too, right? We sold first Exchange and SharePoint and, uh, you know, before Teams, we had a thing called Lync Server and what have you, and we thought, “Oh, that's all gonna move to the cloud.”But little did we realize that, um, the number of people who will use servers in the cloud is 10X, 100X, right? Because people were not buying servers, they were just buying a subscription. Mm-hmm. The same thing is now happening with M365 because with Work IQ, we have exposed what is perhaps the most important database in a company that never got used as a database because it was only captive to our apps.Mm-hmm. Right? It, it was all email operated on it, Teams operated [00:19:00] on it, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, SharePoint. But now, like this is one of the coo- coolest things I get to do with Work IQ. I go to a GitHub repo and I say, “Hey, I attended a bunch of design meetings last week related to this repo. Can you capture all that and tell me what changes I should make?”I mean, think about that, right? It literally can go look at all those transcripts, come back with a plan to change a code base, right? Previously, you could never have thought of using M365 for something like that. So the value creation opportunity now in the agent world is in fact 10X more, but it does require us to have...Sarah Guo: For example, there's going to be usage around M365, right? Which is going to be perhaps more than even the e- end users and we have to even re-architect. Like, in fact, like what I use to serve an inbox or a mailbox cannot be used to serve an agent. Uh, and so that's sort of what we are doing.Pricing Models: Per-User, Consumption & OutcomesSarah Guo: I don't believe in, like, permanent business models for any of these domains, but in the [00:20:00] near term, do you have a prediction between, uh, you know, outcomes-based pricing, token-based pricing?Elad Gil: Enterprise bundles Yeah. The way I- I think about this is always we've had... Like, let's even take the per-user pricing. Mm-hmm. The per-user pricing is really an artifact of someone creating a budget needing certainty, right? Because it's the most important thing. Like, somebody wants a budget- Mm-hmm ... they need a per user.Satya Nadella: And, and per user is just a set of entitlements to usage, right? That's kind of what it is. And so the way is, if the first bundling will be take some usage, bundle it into per user stacks and, you know, then sell subscriptions. So subscriptions I think are gonna be there, per user is gonna be there. Then the next big thing will be consumption.So people will say, “I want consumption.” And it's also possible that people will say, “I don't even want to pay for any of the subscriptions or the consumption's outcome.” Mm. But remember, most people love outcomes until they have an outcome, because once you have an outcome, it's like giving away royalty, [00:21:00] right?Mm. I mean, like I, I've talked to customers who love, you know, outcome-based pricing, and I say, “I'm all in,” until they, “Oh my God,” like, “what are you talking about? You're sharing in my outcome? No, no, no. I want you to go back to per-user pricing, and I want you to consumption price,” right? So I think that debate will go on.Uh, but and all, all, all of these business models have a particular time and a place versus one to rule them all. And if anything, if you're a SaaS vendor or you're a platform vendor, having that flexibility... And quite frankly, we face this with GitHub, right? We just recently announced a per-user pricing on GitHub because little, you know, we- GitHub Copilot was constructed at a per-user level before we understood even, uh, the intensity of usage of agents, right?It was an interactive way for a developer to use code complete, maybe tasks. It was not like, oh, I launched 10,000, you know, agents that are going on all day, right? So that is what the adjustment is about. So now that we really want, there will [00:22:00] always be a per user, but there will have to be a consumption meter.Durability of SaaS & Build vs BuySarah Guo: How do you think about the durability of SaaS more generally? One thing I've observed is in a lot of enterprises internally, there will be teams that almost have agent euphoria. They're so excited about the explosion of things they can build that they're trying to rebuild a lot of applications or going to their SaaS vendors and saying, “We're not gonna work with you anymore,” or, “We're considering an internal project.”And it seems like in six to nine months, maybe some of those people will come back and say, “Actually, we, we can't rebuild everything.” How do you think about what's durable in this world and what isn't? Yeah, it's a... It... I think we have to go through one full budget cycle on this to really see the, um- Uh, the sort of the emergence of the equilibrium, because at the end of the day, there's marginal cost to even generating the app, right?Elad Gil: In, in fact, there can be even a, a simple way to say it, like if you should always acquire something if the marginal cost of building and maintaining, uh, something on your own is higher. Uh, right? That should be like it's a quantifiable- Yeah. Right? A quantifiable thing. And [00:23:00] the maintenance part is important, right?Even, like you got to remember like, hey, you know, all the security stuff that now AI will find, you better fix them too fast. Uh, of course, there's a coding agent to help you with, but then that burns tokens, right? So whose responsibility is it? It's kind of like a, a cycle that you've got to think through.And I think we have gone through the excitement that I can generate a lot of software. I think the next thing would be what software do I really want to generate? Mm-hmm. What software do I want to use from others? How do I compose these two into some agentic workflow that I have agency over, right?Sarah Guo: Because I think there'll be very little tolerance for anybody who's inflexible, uh, at the vendor level. Uh, but at the same time, I think that anyone who has got that flexibility shows up, delivers the value, will be back at again, right? We're selling software, uh, but with just different business models, in fact Uh, speaking about building software, um, one of my favorite moments from, I think, a previous build maybe one or two years ago was they had a b- they, they...Swyx: There was a section of you building your [00:24:00] own software. I'm curious if you're building anything now. Yeah. So I, I think the... You know, first of all, let's face it, right? Building software has made it possible for even the incompetence of a CEO of a company- ... like ours, uh, you can build, so thank God. But that said, I, I, I, I do feel that, you know, something like, um, GitHub Copilot to me, and especially the new Sessions app or the new app, has just made it so much more possible for you to have agency over artifacts that you felt you couldn't touch before, right?Satya Nadella: So to, for me as a CEO, even to go to a code base, uh, to be able to learn about it, like I remember joining Microsoft long back, you know, first and then you say, man, everybody had to go in and look at, you know, whatever, Cutler's, Malik, or what have you to learn how to do good C, uh, C++ code. Um, so now that ability to be more full stack up and down is so good, but that doesn't mean every one of us should be doing the same thing.The question is: [00:25:00] how do you then have the ability to inspect things, learn things, see things, um, I think is just so much more. And so to me, what I'm building a lot of is these long-running Foundry agents. Uh, right? So there's autopilots. So the easiest thing is, to me, I think I just built one, uh, even last week, where the idea was, hey, can I have an agent that is continuously monitoring essentially my own chief of staff autopilot, right?We're gonna have that obviously in, uh, Scout. That's what, uh, uh, we showed. But it is so easy and trivial to build. I took Work IQ. I said, “Take Work IQ, go, uh, and build a Foundry long-running agent.” Uh, store all the memory in, um, uh, using Ray Fin, right? Basically at my backend as a service. And lo and behold, it built it, and not only built it, I could say publish to Teams, and it published the damn thing to Teams.Sarah Guo: So the ability, uh, to have a, you know, some end-to-end project like this complete is just pretty [00:26:00] miraculous. How do you think, uh,Future Engineering RolesSarah Guo: that impacts the different types of engineering roles that exist in the future? Because right now I think there's, you know, a dozen different types of engineers that you can be, from QA, front end, et cetera.You know, there's a big swath. I've heard some people argue that in four or five years we'll basically end up with four engineering roles. It'll be people who are managing agents, it'll be four deployed engineers or FDEs, it'll be security engineers, and then people working on large scale infrastructure for a small number of services, and then everything else just collapses into the agentic world.Satya Nadella: Yeah, I- Do you think that's a correct view of the world? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we'll have to experiment our way through it. But what you said is what... There are some very at scale things. At LinkedIn, they did structurally change- Mm-hmm ... uh, and it, you know, basically built up a new discipline called full stack builder, right?So they went and said, “Hey, let's bring, uh, people from design and product management, front end engineering, all put them together.” Uh, but also have an edge, right? It's not like the design person still doesn't have the design edge, or the front end [00:27:00] person doesn't have the front end edge, but you can give yourself bigger scope in roles so that you're not confined to one role.Um, and then r- equally, infrastructure has become very critical, right? So in other words, like, I mean, RLEs, I mean, one thing we've realized is even for the Excel team, for example. Mm-hmm. Building the RLE in which a reward can be learned is actually one of the hardest sort of infrastructure problems.Mm-hmm. Uh, and so you kind of need even new talent, right? Distributed systems people even in what was considered an end user app team, uh, because it's a different skill set. So yes, infrastructure, science is the other one, obviously. Um, so I think we'll see how these evolve, right? Where's the s- real... I mean, always the world will have a bunch of specialists.Okay. Um, you know, I think the generalist role is going to be the most exciting, right? Because the leverage of a generalist- Mm-hmm ... um, is where we are going to see the maximum returns, right? When, when you said, “Hey, are you coding?” I'm now a gen- Like, what... I've basically translated [00:28:00] knowledge work Right?Which I did, where I created a Word document or a spreadsheet, or even, uh... And now I can build an app, right? It's in the same sentence. Uh, right? That idea that, “Oh, wow, my generalist skills have gotten higher leverage,” I think is what we're gonna see across the board. Music to the ears of CEOs and VCs that are, like, a little dangerous and a lot of- Golden age for idea peopleSarah Guo: idea people. Yeah. Uh- With a lot of agency. I- if you take that idea of personal agency and you just zoom it out to the organizational context, um, uh, my partner Mike Renall, who, uh, actually started his career at Microsoft, just wrote an essay where one of the big takeaways is i- it's an age where you can be much more ambitious, and you need to be, given the pace of the environment and how quickly, actually, users and companies are open to adopting new technologies.Satya Nadella: Um, how do you think about... I, I feel silly asking this of somebody running a, you know, trillion-dollar-plus company already, butAmbition & Making the Impossible PossibleSatya Nadella: how do you think about how Microsoft can be more ambitious now? It's a great question. Um, I [00:29:00] think, um- I think the, the thing in these type of transitions is to have a conceptual model of how work can change to go after outcomes that you could hardly imagine previously, right?In fact, Kevin Scott has this nice line, right, which is, um, when you can make the impossible... Like, when you're making hard things easier, that's sort of one point of leverage. But true ambition is about making the impossible possible. So now the thing that is missing a little bit in all of our organizations is what is that new conceptual model of what can we build?What was impossible and what can we build? And I'll give you one example of this, right, which is I take great inspiration from sort of the people who were managing the Azure net- network. And they came to the... This was from even last year. You know, we were scaling. You saw that I, I [00:30:00] talked about sort of how we built in the last 15 months more Azure capacity than we built in the first 15 years.I mean, it's crazy. Wild. Yeah. Right? It's pretty wild. And it's the same team. So they saw that and they said, “Bob, this just ain't gonna work if we don't reconceptualize our work.” So they built... Essentially they said, “Our job is not to do Azure networking. Our job is to build the agentic system does, that, that does Azure networking,” right?These are the folks managing the 500-plus fiber operators managing the VAN, right, all over. And fiber operations ultimately is a physical operation. Things get cut, things get, uh, you know, have to be repaired. You know, we have fancy words called DevOps and so on. Basically, emails are coming in and you gotta go respond to them, take care of it.So they built this agentic system. They even have a character for it. It's called Miles, and it sort of does all this stuff, right? They started sort of screaming for more tokens and so on. And so they were saying, “Look, uh, we don't need a headcount. We need tokens in order to be able to [00:31:00] manage, uh, our operation.”That reconceptualization- Mm-hmm ... of what their work is, right? They, they basically took their work and made it meta, right? That meta work is now their new work. Mm-hmm. Right? In the ‘80s, if somebody had come to us and said, “4 billion people are gonna get up in the morning and start typing,” my model would've been, we need 4 billion typists?But we're not doing typing, we're doing knowledge work. So that, to me, I think is it, right, which is whether it's Microsoft or whether it's any organization, is to give ourselves permission to do new types of metacognition, meta work, using these new tools to change the outputs that matter, uh, and then really make the impossible possible.Sarah Guo: So completing that dot or the, the connective tissue across those, I think, is where a lot of the enterprise value will get created.Data Center Build-Out & Community ImpactSarah Guo: Should we talk about data centers? Yeah, please ask. Oh, okay. Well, uh, uh, w- we-- this leads nicely into the data center build-up. I always think, I- I just-- I'm just impressed at the sheer scale of the [00:32:00] build-out from Microsoft, but also everyone else, that this is redefining what it means to be a hyperscaler.And I just feel like that, that, that is at unprecedented scale on finances, uh, on the way you run the company, but also the communities that are, that are impacted. Um, yeah, just talk a bit more about what you're seeing on the ground, like when you visit your- Yeah, I think there are two aspects of it.Satya Nadella: Obviously, the, the build-out is, uh, extraordinary. Um, you know, nothing like this has happened, and it's great to be, uh, one of the participants in it. Uh, but you brought up the other part, right? I think at this point it's clear that unless we as an industry, uh, are very principled about ensuring that the benefits of all the stuff we're talking about are felt in real ways, uh, at the community level, right?Because this is not just a, a campaign, um, right? It has to be real, where people are saying, “Look, this is not ch- changing the prices on energy for me.” In fact, if anything, it's bringing down prices because long term there's going to be a better [00:33:00] grid, there is going to be more energy. Water consumption is, in fact, not sort of, uh...In fact, water is being replenished, right? You gotta really, you know, educate folks on truly what's happening, the cl- uh, the closed loop systems we are building. We have to invest in the training, the jobs, the tax base. In fact, the least talked about stuff is the amount of jobs that get created during construction, after construction.What's the tax base that's there in the community? And, and all this has to be real. Um, and, and if that is the case, then we will have permission. If it is not, we won't have permission. It's as simple as that, right? Which is, uh, we, we... I think we have to take it as an industry pretty seriously. Uh, I think it's good for communities to be skeptical, ask the hard questions, for us to do the hard work, earn that.Um, but at the end of the day, if there's-- if we can really be the produ-- Wait. I've always felt like in human history, if you use a lot of energy but also create a lot of value for society- The story has been fantastic. If you don't [00:34:00] do that, it's not been that great. And this time around, I'm a firm believer that ultimately if you do have a token economy that drives productivity, that drives economic growth, that drives broad spread, um, you know, participation, better health outcomes, um, then I think we'll be in a great place.Sarah Guo: Uh, and that's at least what we all have to be focused on. Yeah. It, it makes me think actually that with all these initiatives that you're doing, might be e- easier to see ROI in the communities first before in enterprise. Yeah. I, I mean, I think both sides. Yeah. In fact, it comes back together. It has to be the people in the communities are going to be employed, are going to be participants, uh, in the real economy, right?Satya Nadella: That's I think the question is. Like, if we- if the broad economy is doing well and the communities are doing well, the dots get connected. It's sort of the market forces are such that we will connect the dots. And that I think is it. Like, you ought to be able to see the evidence. You can't be about o- any one company, uh, but it has to be broad economic growth and broad [00:35:00] ec- you know, community permission.Elad Gil: Yeah. I guess I wanna talk aboutSocietal Impact & Optimism About AIElad Gil: what you're most optimistic about currently or what have you most updated your personal models on regarding societal impact of AI? So you're saying what's the, the, the- What have you updated most on in terms of societal impact of AI? Yeah. I think the, um, the p- the most, um- Critical thing is the first question we even started with, which is we need to tell the story and make it real that everybody has a real shot to participate as a first-class participant in this new economy.Satya Nadella: Right? That's kind of, I think we- in the next 12 months, 18 months, we need a way for people to say, “Oh, wow, I get it.” Right? There's going to be tremendous capability, tremendous amount of infrastructure, but I can see what is going to happen, whether it's the benefits like health outcomes or my ability to create a startup or my ability to run my [00:36:00] local sort of, uh, store more efficiently.It's just happening, and I see that, uh, benefit myself, right? That to me, you know, earning that permission in a path-dependent way, we can't wait. See, the one thing, Eli, that I've now learned is I think the world is gonna be very skeptical of tech and tech companies that say, “Trust us, we've got it. The g- future is gonna be glorious.”Sarah Guo: Uh, you kind of have to deliver tangible benefits. Um, and quite frankly, politicians winning elections, uh, because they have advocated for that. That will be at least my adjustment because without it, um, thinking that somehow... Because it's too important this time around. It's too much of the economy for it not to be the case So one very simple framework I have for, you know, what are, what is gonna be the broad benefit of AI, um, beyond the communities just working in technology, are, are sort of wealth creation- Yepit's [00:37:00] gonna happen in a ton of different companies, startups and large companies. Then you have healthcare. Uh, you, you had amazing demos today. There are companies like Open Evidence. I think that is happening. Um,Education & Future of LearningSarah Guo: education seems like another one that's an- Yep ... obvious good where we haven't seen as much impact as I'd expect.Swyx: Do you have a hypothesis on why that might be, or if it'll come? Yeah, I mean, I think this is where, again, how we think about education, how... You know, recently I met with, uh, the founders of Alpha School and learnt a lot about what they were going and going about, and it's fascinating to listen, uh, to how to even rethink- MmSatya Nadella: uh, what does education really look like. Because I think it's actually very important. Mm. Uh, and I'm not saying anything traditionally being done is less important, right? I was even looking at the, uh... It's fascinating to see. I, I, I forget the which Stanford class it was, uh, the, the Asian guidelines for CS something.Mm. Uh, because you still need people to learn. Uh, like it was an interesting AI class that they were making sure people were learning how to apply softmax appropriately versus saying, “Hey, fix my training run.” Mm-hmm. Uh, so I think learning concepts is important. It's going to [00:38:00] be, uh, critical. But the way we create the incentives, what are the credentials, how we value those credentials, what is the employment opportunity for those credentials?So I think that there's a complete change that has to happen, uh, given the way to get to information, way to educate yourself, way to continuously keep yourself updated has changed so much. So I think interestingly enough, maybe the next big startup and success story could be someone who builds a new university, um, or a new, um, pedagogy even of how to get someone to go through a curriculum and find economic opportunity, uh, that's highly valuable.Well, that has felt, uh, perhaps impossible for a long time, but it's a great note to end on and something that might be possible. It's still possible. Yeah. Thank you, Satya. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you all. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe

Mm

This post contains affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you.If you've been sleeping on sports romance, this episode is your wake-up call. Tennis romance is officially having its moment in publishing — and the author who was writing it a decade before anyone else is finally getting her flowers.In this episode, Laura chats with Jennifer Iacopelli, author of Game Set Match and its sequel Wild Card — new adult tennis romances newly re-released through Little Brown's Requited imprint after Jennifer's YA novel Finding Her Edge was adapted into a Netflix series. They dig into Jennifer's 15-year publishing journey, the ensemble cast storytelling structure of the Game Set Match series, the road from canceled Olympics to Netflix, and why tennis provides the perfect natural force-proximity setup for romance. Plus, Jennifer shares her top sports romance recs (including a few you can grab right now) and a YA F1 romance that's coming in 2027 that you'll want to add to your TBR immediately.Perfect for fans of Challengers, sports romance, and anyone who loves a resilience arc — in fiction and in real life.

Hey HBs! Happy Pride Month! We're baaaaaaack with Fresh Ice by Marina Vivancos! It's a fluffy MM hockey omegaverse that we loved! Bonus Content: Mel's obsessed, golden retrievers and black cats, bad parents, knot sacks, Bus(c)h Beans, and so much more! This Friday on PATREON, Mel is telling Sabrina all about the next two books in this series FACE OFF and OVERTIME! They're soooo gooooood! Want to support the show? Rate and review us on your favorite podcast app! It super helps the algorithm connect us to new listeners.  Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz  Art: Author Kate Prior (her newest release MATED TO MY EX is out now!!)  Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail  Follow our socials:  Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms  Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this profound exploration of Matthew 25:1-13, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb unpack the parable of the ten virgins, revealing it as far more than a simple warning about preparedness. Moving beyond dispensational "rapture ready" interpretations, they demonstrate how this parable addresses the spiritual condition required for entrance into God's consummated kingdom. The discussion centers on the critical distinction between outward religious profession and genuine possession of the Holy Spirit's grace. With pastoral sensitivity and theological depth, the hosts examine the meaning of the oil, the significance of the midnight cry, and the urgency of both evangelism and personal examination. This episode challenges listeners to consider whether they possess not just the lamp of profession, but the oil of saving grace that alone sustains faith through the waiting period before Christ's return. Key Takeaways The oil represents saving grace, not perfect obedience - The critical distinction in the parable is not between those who stayed awake versus those who slept (all ten virgins fell asleep), but between those who possessed oil and those who didn't. The oil symbolizes the indwelling, regenerating, sanctifying presence of the Holy Spirit—the grace that comes through effectual calling and genuine conversion. This parable warns against mere outward profession - All ten virgins carried lamps and waited for the bridegroom, representing outward religious activity and profession. The difference lay in the interior spiritual reality—whether that profession was accompanied by the transforming grace of the Holy Spirit or remained empty formalism. The "midnight cry" represents both personal death and Christ's return - Historically, Reformed expositors understood the midnight cry as either the actual cry of Christ's angels at His return or the voice of God in individual death. Each person's death functions as their personal midnight that irrevocably fixes their eternal state. Readiness is not about sinless perfection but possession of grace - The parable is not teaching a fearful "rapture ready" theology where Christians must be perfectly sinless when Christ returns. Rather, it teaches that readiness consists in possessing saving grace through faith in Christ, which sustains believers even when they "sleep" (fall into sin or spiritual drowsiness). There is urgency in the gospel call - The parable emphasizes that the opportunity for salvation has a deadline—"you know neither the day nor the hour." This creates urgency both for unbelievers to trust Christ and for believers to share the gospel, since no one knows when their personal "midnight" will arrive. Calvin's insight: you "buy" oil by receiving it freely through faith - Though the parable speaks of "buying" oil, Calvin notes this doesn't imply paying a price. Just as Isaiah invites people to buy wine and milk without money, we obtain the oil of grace not through merit or payment, but by receiving through faith what Christ freely offers. Key Concepts The Oil as Symbol of the Holy Spirit's Grace The oil in this parable has been consistently interpreted throughout church history as representing the grace of the Holy Spirit—specifically the indwelling, regenerating, and sanctifying presence that comes through genuine conversion. This interpretation aligns with Old Testament symbolism where anointing oil signified the Spirit's presence (as in "not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit"). The crucial distinction Jesus makes is not about external religious activity (both groups had lamps and waited), but about internal spiritual reality. Just as a lamp cannot burn without oil, religious profession without the Spirit's grace has no sustaining power. This oil cannot be shared or borrowed; it must be personally possessed. The parable thus exposes the deadly danger of assuming that outward Christian activities—church attendance, biblical knowledge, moral behavior—constitute genuine Christianity when the transforming work of the Spirit is absent. All the Virgins Slept: Grace Overcomes Human Weakness One of the most important details often overlooked is that both the wise and foolish virgins fell asleep while waiting for the bridegroom. This demolishes any interpretation suggesting the parable is about maintaining perfect spiritual vigilance or sinless living. The wise virgins' readiness was not based on their superior wakefulness or moral stamina—they fell asleep just like the foolish ones. Their preparedness came from having secured the oil beforehand. This has profound theological implications: our salvation and readiness for Christ's return does not depend on our ability to maintain perfect spiritual alertness or sinless perfection. Even when believers "sleep"—when they fall into sin, experience spiritual dullness, or fail in vigilance—they remain prepared because they possess the oil of the Spirit's grace. The parable thus provides comfort alongside its warning: those who have truly received Christ need not live in constant fear that a moment of weakness will disqualify them when He returns. The Midnight Cry and Personal Eschatology The midnight cry in verse 6 functions on multiple levels theologically. Universally, it points to Christ's unexpected second coming at the end of history. But Reformed interpreters have also recognized its application to individual eschatology—each person's death serves as their personal "midnight cry" that ends all opportunity for preparation. This dual meaning creates urgency both for evangelism and self-examination. The parable warns that whether Christ returns globally or death comes individually, that moment will arrive unexpectedly ("at midnight," the hour of deepest sleep) and irrevocably fix one's eternal state. Once the door is shut, no amount of pleading ("Lord, Lord, open to us") can change one's condition. This underscores a biblical truth often denied in contemporary theology: there is no post-mortem opportunity for salvation, no remedial path after death. The time for obtaining oil is now, in this life, before the cry sounds. Memorable Quotes Every man's death to him is the coming of Christ. That's when our state is irrevocably fixed. And so there's an urgency here—an urgency of evangelism and self-examination because the midnight cry may come at any moment. The difference between the wise and the foolish virgins is not that one of them stays awake and one of them falls asleep. The difference between the wise and the foolish is that the ones that are wise are prepared for when the bridegroom comes, even though they fell asleep. The only way to be prepared for the end is to turn to Jesus. It's not about whether or not you've turned to Jesus and have become perfectly sinless. None of us are like that. It's about trusting Jesus. Full Episode Transcript Welcome to episode 494 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:10] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:15] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Looks like you and I need to get a midnight oil check. That's if you know, you know, that's what's coming up on this episode, and we're headed to Matthew 25 to do that oil check. We're still firmly in all of these beautiful parables that Jesus tells us, and this one goes by various names. You might know it as the parable of the 10 virgins, or if you're Petra. That classic Christian rock group who produced a song called Midnight Oil, which is absolutely a banger that that should be like the the theme song of this episode. If you haven't heard that song, go check out Midnight Oil by Petra and then come back and listen to us. Like, I wish we had the rights to that. We could just drop it in right here. But we're not that cool and we're not gonna edit that. So I'm gonna leave it up to you to craft your own version of this podcast with that great backing track. Have you heard that song?  [00:02:09] Tony Arsenal: I actually haven't. I, I came, uh, came into Christianity sort of at the tail end of Petra's Big Influence. So I know, I knew who Petra is. I've listened to a few of their songs, but they weren't mainstream by any sort, sort of, uh, stretch of the imagination when I was listening to Christian music. So  [00:02:28] Jesse Schwamb: this one's so good. It's so good. And it's right on point for our conversation today. So we're gonna get into all that stuff. The oil check, the midnight nature of it, the 10 virgins. What does it all mean? Of course, Tony and me, we have for you what I believe to be the definitive exegetical and hermeneutical reflection on the parable. So that's what you've come to expect from us and we're happy to deliver, but before we deliver on that, we got all the things we have to deliver to you, and that is affirming with or denying against something that's that point of course in the podcast or our conversation where we choose something they firm with that we think is. Undervalued, something we might recommend or conversely to deny against something that maybe is a little bit too overvalued or just not that great. So Tony, as is our customer, I say to you, sir, what are you doing? Are you affirming with something or are you denying against something?  [00:03:16] Denial Memory Blank [00:03:16] Tony Arsenal: I'm denying something. This is like denial. Ception is what's going on here. So, uh, first of all, thank you, Jesse for, uh, pitch hitting a solo episode at like, literally the last minute, last week. Um, I think we normally record at seven 30 on the Lord's Day, and I think I texted Jesse like 6 45 and was like, I just don't have it in the tank today. Can you do something? And he just hopped behind the mic. So that's a bonus affirmation there. But, uh, Jesse and I were, we're having a little bit of a pregame, uh, today, very much, you know, like five minutes of how you doing and are you ready to go? And, uh, I realized I, I had a really great affirmation last week, all ready to rock. I remember being super excited about it. I remember, uh, when I decided, or when we decided you were gonna do a solo episode thinking, I gotta make sure I remember this for next week. Right? And it has totally left my brain. It's gone. And, uh, it's, it's the worst feeling in the world when that happens. And I remember reading at some point, like, there's a biochemical reason why this happens and why it feels so weird. Like, it, it feels like you should be able to just dive into your mind and like search around enough and find it. And that's just not actually how your, how like your memory works. It's not, um. I think we think of memory as though it's like a big filing cabinet and you can just, like, you can just flip through the CAD catalog like long enough and find it. That's not how it works. Um, it's kind of like more organic network kind of stuff. But yeah, the, the, it's gone. It's just gone and I hate that feeling and it's gone. And that's what I'm denying is that feeling and losing your mind and feeling like you don't remember anything.  [00:04:56] Jesse Schwamb: I'm totally with you because incidentally, as we talked, we discovered we both had that experience because I had something too. And it's not just that, well, you know, we try to set aside or do a little prep on the affirmations and denials because you know, we come across something great in life, or again, the opposite. And you think, I gotta remember this because I wanna talk about this with Tony. And the worst part of that is like twofold. One, it never is great to forget something that you had or you knew you knew at one time, but it's all the less satisfying when it was something that you're super excited about and you're like, this is gonna be great. And it's that thing that you've completely forgotten that's like double the worst. So I'm, I'm totally with you in this denial. [00:05:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, it's, it's a really frustrating, terrible feeling. And there's not much you can do about it. And the, the secondary denial to that is it always comes back to you in the worst possible part of whatever conversation you're having. It's like you hem and hover it and you think about it and you, and I'm doing it right now. You, you sit here and you, you continue to try to talk thingy. It's gonna come, it's gonna come. Yes. It's gonna get here.  [00:05:59] Jesse Schwamb: Yep.  [00:06:00] Tony Arsenal: And then just when you finally have resigned yourself and, and the conversation moves on, that's when it comes back around. So I don't know if that's gonna happen or not, Jesse. If it does, I will try my best to ignore it, but I probably won't be able to. So No, I think you probably should get moving. So whatever it was the amazing affirmation, I don't remember. It can come back to us.  [00:06:16] Jesse Schwamb: It can come back. Yeah. I'm hoping that it does. And when it does, you guys just tell us you got, just let it, let it rip. Like even if we're like right in the middle of some deep, heavy, robust, thick theology, I just wanna be like. I, I can't even imagine what your affirmation was. It must have been like something pretty, pretty good.  [00:06:33] Tony Arsenal: I don't know. I don't know. I, I'm sure it was something interesting. I don't even, I'm  [00:06:37] Jesse Schwamb: trying to draw it out of you now.  [00:06:38] Tony Arsenal: Course. I can't even like, think of the ballpark of what part of like, what, what the category even was. It's just totally, it's totally gone. Like it never happened. Yep. It's, it's totally, totally gone. So I keep on saying, and you would think with all of my talk of like note taking apps and how important it's to keep a journal and all the stuff we've talked about that I would finally get around to like just jotting down in Apple Notes what my affirmations are and I just never do it. So. Yeah,  [00:07:05] Jesse Schwamb: I have every intention, but then I think, well, this is the record of them and I'll have it available to me when it comes time. The talk that's, and sometimes it just goes away. Has it happened yet? I'm still trying to draw it out of you by talking.  [00:07:15] Tony Arsenal: No, I'm just gonna give up. It's just gone. It's gone. That's just gone.  [00:07:19] Jesse Schwamb: That's, that's fair enough. Maybe. What do you  [00:07:21] Tony Arsenal: got for us, Jesse?  [00:07:22] Prayer and Anointing [00:07:22] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe I can just help push it along, as it were by my own. So I'm also affirming with something, lemme just read a couple verses from James chapter five. Is anyone Among You Sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and there to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will save the one who's sick and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, they'll be forgiven him. I had really just the profound opportunity and privilege today to participate in this because. My wife at the end of this week, uh, which will be a week past when this is, this airs, is about to go undergo that serious surgery, which she spoke about in an episode, I don't know, maybe several weeks ago. And, uh, my pastor asked if it would, if he'd like us and the elders, um, to come and to pray over my wife. And they did so after our service today. And it was just a really incredible thing. Even I'm still processing it. I don't really know. Like the words to say with what I can bring forward is just like words of gratitude and gratefulness for this kind of living out of the scriptures. What I can say is that the way in which he brought this forward and the elders prayed was just so incredibly loving and genteel and spirit-filled. And I think which is a manifestation of, of God's love for us in this moment as we prepare for this great thing to give us peace, peace, and to increase our faith and to do so by just following what the scriptures say here. So my affirmation is maybe twofold. One, it's for this particular experience, it's certainly for pastors, for elders who make it their objective to care for their flock and to do so under the rubric and the instruction of the scriptures. So I'm grateful, and if you have those kind of pastors and elders in your life, I hope that you'll be grateful to them for them as well, and that you might express that gratefulness. So this was a really incredible and, and lovely thing, and, uh, fills us with a kind of hope and encouragement. And if anything else was a reminder of the feel, there's something different going to experience like this armed fully with the promises of God and asking that he would be glorified, that our testimonies would be strong, and that of course, that he would bring healing through it. So I'm ever so grateful and affirming what this passage and this passage put into practice.  [00:09:51] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And if you are listening to this, when, uh, when it comes out or shortly after, probably not even shortly after, probably for a couple weeks after or months after, um, uh, Jesse's wife Jen did talk about the surgery and the condition she's been suffering under. So, uh, she's part of the Reformed Brotherhood family. She is, uh, just as important to the show, uh, as Jesse and I are in terms of the support that our wives give us and, and the space that we need to do this. So please do pray for Jen. Um, she'll be recovering when you hear this, if it's anywhere near the time that this comes out. Uh, it's a fairly large surgery with a, a, a moderately long recovery time. So please, uh, please do pray for her, uh, and, and make sure that you're lifting her up. Um, we are trusting the Lord for good things, uh, for her. Yes. And uh, we're confident that he, his will will be done 'cause it always is. But yeah, definitely pray for her. [00:10:42] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Thank you for saying that, Tony. I appreciate that as her husband and. We are encouraged that we've said this before, but this is where our theology matters, isn't it? It's in the times where we come before the Lord in faith and in full trust, because one, there's nowhere else to go. He has the words of life for us. He is our life, but also because. In his son, this beautiful gift of salvation whereby his son is the suffering servant. So he's well acquainted with all of this kind of thing. And so stands with us in every conceivable way to be both so incredibly transcendent and above the nonsense and the noise of our world with full power and sovereignty over all things. And at the same time, to be fully eminent. To be literally with us in all the ways. In all the things. And again, well acquainted with our condition, including the grief and the suffering, the anxiety, the all of this, which we experience as part and parcel of what it means to be human, who is like our God in this way. And so we do sense his great and uncommon care for us, and it would be dishonest of me even in the midst of these difficult and challenging things to say that he doesn't care for us. He has good and he loves us, and he's making a way, even though that way be hired. So we're sensing even from, I think, following that time of prayer, that whether we receive the bread of affliction. Uh, or the, the water of of agony that we hear God's voice behind us saying, this is the way, walk in it, and he's with us. So I hope that's encouragement maybe to others who are also going through their own things and who isn't going through something, right?  [00:12:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:12:18] Jesse Schwamb: So we all have this great promise in the gospel that God is for us, and I love that James here gives us some practical instruction to that end. [00:12:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, for sure.  [00:12:31] Support the Show [00:12:31] Tony Arsenal: Well, before we move into our topic for the evening, uh, the internet tells me that I'm supposed to do this at this point in the show rather than at the very end like we usually do. Well, let's do it. Um, we are a listener supported episode, not like PBS, uh, not like other things. Uh, maybe kind of a little bit like PBS Yeah, a little bit. Anyway, uh, we have a, a pretty dedicated group of Patreon supporters who, uh, donate a little bit and sometimes some people, a lot, a bit of their discretionary income, uh, to help make the show go. And we've said before, like, we are not interested in providing special content or special gear or swag every once in a while. I think we did it once and we've, we've got plans to do it again sometime in the future. We'll send out a thank you gift to those who are subscribing through Patreon. Um, but we are committed to producing the show and making everything that we put online and everything that we make available, available to everybody. And really the only reason that we can do that, especially in today's economy, is uh, because there are people who support the show. And so we always want to make sure that we're saying we're thank you to those people. Yes. Um, they are a part of this show. I don't know if we are not gonna do like executive producer credits, but they're as close to that as you can get. Since we don't do that, um, we really wouldn't be able to do the show, at least not the way that it is without that supporting group of people. So if that's something that you hear and you no, I kind of think that maybe I wanna be a part of that. We would love for you to go to patreon.com/reform tears. There's no special swag, there's no early releases or anything like that. Um, but we would love if you would partner with us. Um, this is a lowercase m ministry, and if you've listened to the show for a long time, you know what I mean by that. Uh, we, we do consider this to be a calling, something that God has given us and we, we understand there's a responsibility with it, but we also know that we can't do it alone. So if you're interested after you've fulfilled all your personal finance obligations, your obligation to your local church and your immediate area, if there's a little bit left over that you're looking to spend somewhere on something that is valuable, uh, please do consider going to patreon.com/form Brotherhood. [00:14:39] Jesse Schwamb: And if you've been listening for a while and you've thought, you know what, I wonder who else is out there that's like me, that's listening to these guys on the internet. Guess what? You can actually meet some of those people. They have a little spot where they hang out. It's called Telegram. It's just a chat app, and we have our own little section of that app. If you just go to your favorite browser, whatever it is, you can choose and go to wherever you like, just go to t me slash Reform Brotherhood. And that link will take you into kind of a preview land where you can see the space where everybody's talking, and you can peruse some of the different channels, everything from uh, channels just for prayer, for a crusting, prayer to general conversation, talk about the episodes, talk about baptism, all kinds of things. It is, as we always say, one of the kindest, most charitable, most loving corners of the internet. Guaranteed. You can test us on that. So in fact, you should by going to t.me back slash reform Brotherhood, Tony, back to you. [00:15:36] Eschatology Shift [00:15:36] Tony Arsenal: Well, let's just slam it right into gear. We, we, we haven't figured out how to do transitions into or out of, uh, Patreon announcements, uh, or telegram announcements,  [00:15:46] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:15:46] Tony Arsenal: So this, I, maybe this is the awkward charm of the show, or maybe it's just the awkwardness of the show. It's just charm, Jesse,  [00:15:53] Jesse Schwamb: all charm. [00:15:53] Tony Arsenal: We need to talk about some things tonight. We need to talk about some oil. Yes. We need to talk about some lamps. Yes. We need talk about some bridegrooms.  [00:16:00] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:16:00] Tony Arsenal: It's the parable of the 10 virgins or the 10 lamps, or the parable of the oil flasks. Yes. There's lots of different things that it's called. Uh, it's what it isn't, it's not the parable of, uh, the 24 hour Jiffy Lube, which is what it made, what you made it sound like when you talked about the midnight oil check. Um,  [00:16:18] Jesse Schwamb: I  [00:16:18] Tony Arsenal: didn't even think about that. But yeah. This is, this is a good one. And I think we've, we've sort of. I've sort of observed that the parables do tend to clump around systematic theology themes, and they clump within the narrative of the gospel within Matthew itself around themes. So the last three parables that we talked about were all sort of like parables of judgment against the Pharisees and a, a lot of things like unconditional election and reparation were all baked into that pie. You know, we talked about with the parable of the lost sheep and the lost coins and the lost, um, the lost, uh, brother. We talked about how that has a lot to do with like election. It has to do with salvation and what the gospel looks like in terms of justification in the father's initiative. And we're moving into a section of Matthew, um, where Jesus is starting to teach on the last days. And so the parables in this section start to move toward ha to have more of an eschatological bent. Yes. We talked a little bit about some of the eschatology and the parables when we, we went through the, um, through the, the. Um, my brain just left me. It happened again, Jesse. The, the denial thing, uh, when we talked about the parable of the tears and the wind field and the, the, the different kinds of soils back on track, there was an eschatological element to that. But we are in like straight up eschatology Yeah. In these, these sections now. That's right. So we're coming to the end of Matthew, uh, our plan right now and who knows what the Lord has for us. But the plan right now is once we finish Matthew, to go back and visit some of the parables that are present in the other gospels. And there's not too many of 'em, but that are present in the other gospels that aren't necessarily, uh, present in Matthew. So, like you said, there's not a ton of 'em. Uh, we do want to hit all of 'em. And if there's, if there's time, and I say if there's time as though we have some sort of time constraints, um, if there's time we probably will talk a little bit about some of the I am statements and some of the things in John. 'cause John doesn't do parables quite the same way in quite the same fashion, but he does have sort of some of this. Allegorical figurative language baked into some of his, um, some of his writings or some of the accounts of Jesus that he, he, um, captures that are probably worth talking about in the seam light. So right now we're, we're coming up quick on the end of the parables of Matthew. Um, there's not very many left and then we'll, we'll keep moving on. Uh, that said. We are, it's almost unbelievable to say this. We're going to be coming up to the end of the parable series sometime in the next, I dunno, six to 10 months. Uh, if you've got ideas for what you think the next series should be, start thinking about those now. Bring 'em to the telegram chat. Let's start percolating those ideas up, right? And, uh, like a good coffee maker. And we'll, uh, we'll brew some goodness. How many more parables? How many more, uh, metaphors can I throw in there? Puns, can I throw in there? But yeah, Jesse, let's get started. This is a good one.  [00:19:08] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that was a really, I think, fine introduction. I always enjoyed this parable because it has some really fun, dramatic elements, but I think I, I really haven't really appreciated all the eschatological underpinnings that you were just mentioning. And when you think about it as we're, I think we're gonna soon find here. That this is one of the most searching and solemn parables, actually, that Jesus uttered, and you start to get a sense for that as we've just kind of been hitting them, one after the other. As you said, this one belongs to the great olive discourse. It's delivered by Jesus to his disciples on the Mount of Olives just days before his crucifixion. It's in direct response to their questions about the destruction of Jerusalem and the sign of his condiment coming and the end of the age. So you're right. I think this carries like unmistakable eschatological weight because it's not merely this fable about preparedness in general, which sometimes is where we go. Yeah. But it's really more of like a precise theological warning about the spiritual condition required for entrance into the consummated kingdom of God at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.  [00:20:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah,  [00:20:11] Jesse Schwamb: I think that's the full setup.  [00:20:12] Read Matthew 25 [00:20:12] Jesse Schwamb: We, we've gotta go to the scriptures, right?  [00:20:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:16] Jesse Schwamb: Alright. It's time. You want me to read it? [00:20:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.  [00:20:18] Jesse Schwamb: Okay. Here we go. Matthew 25, beginning in verse one, then the kingdom of heaven may be compared to 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bride groom. Now, five of them were foolish and five were prudent for when the foolish took their lamps. They took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout. Behold the bridegroom come out to meet him. Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the prudent, give us some of your oil for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered saying, no, there will not be enough for us and for you too. Go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves. And while they're going away to make the purchase, that bridegroom came and those who already went in with him to the wedding feast and the door was shut. And later the other versions came also saying, Lord, Lord, open for us. But he answered and said, truly, I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore, stay awake for you do not know the day nor the hour.  [00:21:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:21:29] Assurance Not Fear [00:21:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, this one's heavy. And I just wanna say, kind of coming into this, right, I think a lot of our audience, and I would, I would include myself in this, um, we, we came to sort of like an awareness of faith. And I, I don't say that in a sort of tongue in cheek fashion. What I mean, um. I'll, I'll just speak from my perspective, but I think it's probably one that resonates. I came to faith when I was a, you know, a relatively young teenager, 15 years old, and, um, when you first become a Christian, you're not aware of all the different theological debates or even all of the major implications of the Christian faith. And I think a lot of us and myself, uh, as, as sort of the example when we be started to become aware of the different conversations happening in different dynamics and some of the more, uh, maybe third or fourth tier doctrines that you learn when you're, um, sort of being catechized as a new Christian, uh, catechized in sort of an informal sense, eschatology is probably one of those ones that comes along fairly, fairly late in the game. And I recall, um, when I first became aware of the left behind books, right? And so I, I came to faith in a large Lutheran megachurch, uh, that wasn't really as Lutheran as you would think, cup being a large Lutheran megachurch. It was very dispensational. And I think there is a sense of dread and fear associated with rapture ready theology. And I don't, I don't think all dispensationalist that, um, believe in a, a literal rapture of the church either prior to or following or in the middle of the tribulation. I don't think all dispensationalist fall into this category. But there are definitely dispensationalist out there that would emphasize being rapture ready. And you know, you think of like the song, I wish We'd All Been Ready, you know, and, and this, this sort of existential fear that the Rapture's gonna come and I'm not gonna be ready and I'm gonna be left behind. Right. There's an, the entire book series is about people who thought that they were Christians who thought that they were justified and saved and then weren't. And, and I don't think the book gives all that much explanation other than sort of like a general sense of like, these are sort of nominal fake Christians that maybe some of them think they're saved and some of them don't. I know there were definitely characters in the book who really thought that they were followers of Jesus and then they didn't realize they weren't until they were not raptured with everyone else. The only reason I sort of launch into that progam is I think that the tendency in most circles because of the pervasive. Sort of all expansive influence of dispensationalism in the United States, and particularly sort of this like rapture ready, left behind theology that is a, a major thread within, um, American dispensationalism. There's a tendency to look at this almost exclusively in light of that sort of rapture ready fear that right the end is gonna come and I'm not gonna be ready and. I don't, I'm not a dispensationalist, I don't hold to a rapture in that sense. I don't think you do either. Jesse and I, I think there's an element of this that has that same flavor that we have to acknowledge, but I don't think we should read this in light of like, you think you're gonna be fine, but actually you're not. So you better get it together. I don't think that that's the point of the parable. Um, and I wanna say that upfront because it is easy to read a parable like this and to, to become extremely fearful to the point that it actually shakes whatever assurance you may have had. And I've said it before and, and I, I will say it again, it is not, I am not in the business of robbing the assurance away from Christians. The assurance of faith and the assurance of salvation is the rightful possession and inheritance of all those who are Christ. And so I have no, no desire to shake or rob you of your assurance. That's just not my jam. Um, so I wanted to get that out there. Like I don't think that this parable is here. To scare the daylights out of us and make us question whether or not we actually belong to the bridegroom. I actually think it's here for a different reason.  [00:25:39] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I agree.  [00:25:40] Watch and Be Ready [00:25:40] Jesse Schwamb: I, I think this may have more in common with like the tears in the wheat parable that we've spoken about before versus trying to promulgate a particular understanding of eschatology. There's no doubt that this is calibrated to the period preceding the perusia. At the same time, the parable is a reminder that describes like the visible professing church on earth as it moves toward that consummation. So this is why I think it is important for us to talk about, well, what do we mean by these 10 virgins? What do we mean about the lamps themselves? What is this saying generally about God's church? And again, him addressing the question of what does it mean for that church to be consummated in his kingdom?  [00:26:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I, I'm, I'm trying to find the specific passage, but um. We also should not miss the verbal affinity here. Uh, at the end of the parable, when it says truly, I say to you, I do not know you. We should really read this in light of, um, the, um, the statements. You know, I was hungry and you didn't feed me. I was, you know, and you say, Lord, we did these things. He said, away from me. I never knew you. We really should read this parable. I think in light of that passage and that phrasing, I think that's, that's actually the punchline of this  [00:26:54] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. [00:26:55] Tony Arsenal: Punchline. That's, that's the point. Parable is that last phrase, and then the, the extra parable, the outside of the parable, um, payoff or sort of like explanation that Christ gives is watch. Therefore, for you neither know the day nor the hour. The point is not, um, you may think you're a Christian. You may think you're, you're on top of things, but you actually, you might be totally wrong. And so you better get your stuff together. The point is what, what happens? Or the point is the same thing as I think it's the author of Hebrew is like, today is the day of salvation, right? Like, do not wait to turn to Christ. Do not wait. That's right to trust in Jesus. Do not wait to enter the kingdom of heaven until the last minute. Do not wait because you don't actually know when the end is coming. And I, I read this when I, when it's watch, therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. I read this less in light of, um. Like universal eschatology, uh, every single person that, that Jesus was speaking to in this original audience that he actually delivered this parable to, did not see that, like, did not see the last days. Right. Whatever the last days looks like. And I mean, like, yes, the last days is from the resurrection to the end of the age. So some of them saw those last days. But what I mean is none of these people saw the return of Christ, like the second return of Christ and that the last judgment. So he would, it would be sort of meaningless to be delivering this parable to those people. With only whatever the last things are with only the rapture in mind with only Right, exactly. The great judgment. None of that would make any sense. So I read this more in light of you never know when your day and hour is coming. Not, not necessarily like the day, like the day of the Lord, although that's true. Yes. There will be a generation on earth who the last day, the final judgment is also their last day in terms of their ordinary human life. But I think this is more of a general call to all of us, and especially to those, um, out there who are in the orbits of the church who are exposed to the gospel, um, and have not yet trusted Christ. [00:29:09] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:29:09] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is a call to turn to Jesus and to, uh, to, to come into the kingdom of heaven, to be prepared by coming into the kingdom of heaven here. That's, that's the main point of the peril that we have to land on.  [00:29:21] Bridegroom And Virgins [00:29:21] Jesse Schwamb: I agree with you, and I think all of the imagery here points in that direction. So even starting with this image of these 10 virgins, which of course you've been listening to us talk for long enough, or you've read through the Old Testament, you're gonna quickly, and I think cogently see that this is the Old Testament imagery of Israel as the bride or the covenant community. It's also of course, like the Greco Roman custom in which the bridesmaids attended the bride and accompanied the wedding procession when the bride groom arrived to claim his bride. So to your point, what I think is really interesting about this is that we're basically saying that this parable is not speaking of like strangers or enemies, but those who have made a profession of faith. And so even this like idea of the bridegroom who, who's without a question? Christ here, that's a self-identification that's rooted in like John chapter three, where even John the Baptist calls himself merely the friend of the bridegroom and a revelation where you are going already, where the marriage supper of the lamb consummate, consummate redemptive history. [00:30:19] Lamps And Oil Meaning [00:30:19] Jesse Schwamb: So once we get through the idea of we have those whom Jesus is speaking about, and even those who he's speaking to as those who have made some kind of profession, religious or otherwise, to me, where this hinges is in this idea of the lamps or these torches or or burning lamps, which I take to be like this outward profession. And so the question is you have all of them coming with these lamps. Lambs represent this external common to true or false professors alike. But I think to what you are driving at, it's whether within that profession there is a true and actual reliance on Christ himself for righteousness.  [00:30:57] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, oil, I think the oil is really key here too, right? Oil in the, uh, in the scriptures, particularly in the Old Testament. Um, but also in some places in the New Testament, oil is associated with the Holy Spirit.  [00:31:11] Jesse Schwamb: Yes,  [00:31:11] Tony Arsenal: exactly right. So if, if we wanna sort of take the symbolism here, take, take the, the situation sort of as a mixture of, of different kinds of symbols. We have these folks that have all of the outward things necessary to be able to light the lamps. They have the lamps, the wicks are there. Um, they're, they're sort of ready to go. They're, they're ready and waiting for a time. Uh, but what they don't have is they don't have oil, they don't have the Holy Spirit. So yes, we, we need in some senses about false professors, but I do think it's broader than that.  [00:31:43] Salvation Has A Deadline [00:31:43] Tony Arsenal: I think this is, um, again, is a generalized parable about. The, the fact that the hour of salvation, the day of salvation, the opportunity to turn to God, the opportunity to come into God's kingdom is not an indefinite opportunity. It's not going to be out there as a possibility forever. There is a day and an hour and a minute for every single person where that opportunity is no longer available. And of course we're the reformed brotherhood, not the Armenian Brotherhood, right? We're the reformed brotherhood. So yes, God has ordained who will come and who will not. He's ordained the hour and the minute of those who will, and he's ordained that some will never come. But that all operates on God's God's level in God's knowledge. And that's not something we have access to know down here, right? Deuteronomy 29, 29, the sacred things belong to the Lord, but the things that are revealed belong to us and our children forever. And one of the things that's revealed is that God calls us to salvation. He calls us to repent and trust in Jesus. And here in this passage, he is cutting us to do that, to not delay doing that.  [00:32:53] Personal Evangelism Story [00:32:53] Tony Arsenal: I think there are a lot of people, um. I can actually think of a couple really specific examples in when I was in high school. Um, I was, I, I don't do as much personal evangelism as I I did when I was, uh, when I was in high school and younger. I, I don't know for sure what the reason is. Some of it's probably my own cowardice, but I think probably just that's normal, that as you grow and you kind of settle into different kinds of relationships, you have a different context. But I remember a, a friend of mine named Dave, I'm not gonna say his last name, I remember his last name, but I'm not gonna say it, but a friend of mine named David, um, who. All of us were coming to faith, like all, all of our friend group were coming to Faith. There was one of my friends, James was sort of like the first guy who, he was raised in a Christian home and he sort of came to faith in a very real faith, real way. And he sort of brought all of us along with him and sort of one by one we, we sort of like, it was like Domino's falling. And we all came to a genuine, true saving faith kind of all right in a row. And then there was Dave and Dave just didn't like he, he with us. He did all the things we were doing. And I remember having a conversation with him where I was like, what are you waiting for? Like, what's, what's the hold up here? And I didn't have any, again, I didn't have any framework for like what apologetics were, I wasn't trying to make an argument or any sort of like, um, any sort of like persuasion. It was just a real raw like we are all loving this. We're all, we're all so joyful and happy. The lives are changing and we. This is real, Dave, what, what are you waiting for? He never had a real answer. He, he didn't ever make an argument against the faith. He was very clear that he believed that God was real. He believed that God existed, that the sort of the facts of the gospel were true. Like he, he, um, to sort of put like theological language on it, um, he had, he had a ticia and a census, right? Right. He, he acknowledged he knew the true facts of the gospel and he acknowledged the reality that, that those facts were true. He just never actually took the step to trust in Jesus. And I don't know what happened to Dave. Uh, there's another friend of mine named Theo that very similar kind of situation. I don't know what happened to Dave and Theo. I have no idea whether they eventually came to faith or not, but, but it was like, you guys never know when the day in the hours. That's the kind of person that I think this is pointing to.  [00:35:15] Against Rapture Ready Fear [00:35:15] Tony Arsenal: Not necessarily the person within the church, um, who has made some sort of credible profession of faith, but thinks, but like, because like they haven't stopped swearing yet, or because they still have lustful thoughts once in a while. Like I think that's the rapture ready theology is like. You better not hope that like that's the day that a pretty girl walks by and you have a lutful thought. 'cause if Jesus comes back right after that, you're really in trouble. Like those are, those are actually, um, again, this is, this is a caricature of dispensationalism, but it's a caricature that I experienced. It's, it was people who were being characters of themselves. Right? This idea that, look, you better, you better not sin ever. You better not be asleep. And being asleep means sinning. You better not ever sin. Because if you happen to sin right before the rapture, then Jesus is gonna leave you behind. Right? You're not gonna fly up in the clouds if you're not perfectly rapture ready. And like, again, not all dispensationalist are like that. I actually think most dispensationalist these days would probably not fit into that category. Right? But when I was coming to faith in the late nineties and early two thousands, that was the real theology being presented. I don't think that's what this is. This is about a life orientation of preparedness. This is about an entire life. Yes. That is prepared for Christ's second coming or for the hour of our death. And that the only way to be prepared for that is to be happy in Christ, is to be blessed, blessed assurance, like to have your blessed assurance because Jesus is mine. Oh, what a, you know, oh, what a happy delight like that is. The only way to be ready for death, to be prepared for the end is to turn to Jesus. It's not about whether or not you've turned to Jesus and have become perfectly sinless. None of us are like that, right? It's not about, I just got done writing this series of articles on John Piper's affectional theology, affectional Justification, like it's not about perfectly treasuring Christ. There are gonna be times where your emotions do not sync up with what you actually believe. It's not about being perfectly obedient or wanting to be perfectly obedient. It's about trusting Jesus. And there's only one day an hour that that opportunity closes, and you never know when that is, when that day an hour is gonna be. [00:37:26] Wise Versus Foolish [00:37:26] Jesse Schwamb: We know that to be true in this particular parable because of what's written for us in verse two, how Jesus himself bifurcates and labels these two groups. He says five of them were foolish and five were wise. So Christ himself introduces the critical distinction, not of course, with reference to whatever the external practice is, because both of these groups are carrying lamps, both weight, both know the bridegroom is coming, but with an interior character judgment one is literally foolish, which is the same contrast that Christ employs actually in the parable of the two builders at the conclusion of the Sermon on the Mount, where the wise man hears and does, while the foolish man hears, but does not translate hearing into obedient transformation. So I'm with you on this. The terms carry, I think, significant Old Testament fruit because in the all the wisdom literature, wisdom is synonymous with the fear of the Lord, that true knowledge of God, right? And that practical orientation, I think as you were saying, of one's entire life toward God. The fool is not like an intellectual simpleton, but it's a world spiritual category. It's one who lives as though God does not exist or God does not matter, or refuses in the light of incontrovertible evidence to come before God and to submit to him In this way. They are foolish or they are wise. And so again, I like what you're saying. It's not as if like they've just exhibited some kind of quick departure or they've fallen into temptation or sinfulness, but instead, rather, there's something way larger at stake here with respect to a spiritual category. And I think that's really what Jesus is after, as he's bringing these two groups apart from each other, explaining that essentially that they access the same things. They heard the same stuff, they had the same on the outward, at least the same priorities, but the true internal character, the interior character of who they were, was not compatible. These are not the the same kind of person.  [00:39:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:39:21] All Virgins Fall Asleep [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: And this is actually something, um, that I hadn't picked up on before. Right. I think we can get into these ruts when we're reading and understanding, uh, the scripture, especially really familiar passages like this. Um, probably like at some point in the past, someone has taught it to me in this way. I heard a sermon or I heard it at a youth group in a particular way, and I just never really went back. The, the wise virgins also fall asleep.  [00:39:46] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:39:46] Tony Arsenal: Like, like that, that's amazing to me, like Right. I've always heard this passage as though like, falling asleep is the equivalent of spiritual death.  [00:39:54] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. [00:39:55] Tony Arsenal: But the reality is, in this passage, the difference between the wise and the foolish virgins is not that they, one of them stays awake and one of them falls asleep. One, the, the, the difference between the wise and the foolish is that the ones that are wise are prepared for when the bride root clump comes, even though they fell asleep and, and actually, uh, they're, they're shown to be even more wise because they all fell asleep. Yes. Right. If they hadn't fallen asleep, then the foolish ones probably would've had time to go get more. But the, the wise virgins in this, uh. And not only were they wise in terms of like they had the stuff they needed, they were ready to go, but so wise that in fact their wisdom overcame sort of this happenstance that they were in a state of, of preparedness being asleep when the comes is a state of Unpreparedness, but they have able to compensate for the ready in every other area. And I think this also kind of like mitigates away away from the idea of like the, um. The, the emphasis of the parable here, the readiness of the par of the virgins is not based on the wakefulness of the virgins, right? Yes. The virgins are ready because they have the supplies they need. Right. They're not Exactly, they're not exactly, they're not un 'cause they fell asleep. They're ready because they've, they've prepared by purchasing the supplies they need, by having the supplies they need when the breadroom comes. That's true. Whether they fall asleep or not. So I think like this whole parable needs to sort of like be reoriented in reference to the way a lot of us have, A lot of us have been taught and understood this parable. I was always taught that the, the foolish virgins were foolish because they fell asleep. Yeah, that's probably partially true in that it's foolish to fall asleep when you're waiting for something, but that can't be the only thing that makes them foolish. 'cause it doesn't make the other virgins foolish. [00:41:51] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, exactly.  [00:41:52] Oil As Saving Grace [00:41:52] Jesse Schwamb: And that's why it's so interesting that Jesus basically doubles down or elaborates in verses three and four by saying for when the foolish took their lamps. They took no oil with them. Yeah, but the wises took flasks of oil with their lambs. I think it's actually, as you're, I think leading us into like the theological height of this whole thing, the foolish virgins took their lambs, but no oil. The wise took lambs and extra oil in vessels. And of course the lambs cannot burn without oil in the same way. I think what we're led to believe here is profession without grace has no sustaining power. So I know like throughout church history, this idea of the oil has been interpreted in various ways, in various forms. I think there's a lot of unification though on the point that the oil is more or less like a representation of the grace of the Holy Spirit. That like specific indwelling regenerating, sanctifying presence of the spirit imparted in effectual calling and genuine conversion. And that's why I think this has a lot in common with both like the tears and the wheat parable. But also what you've been saying about the time that is appointed onto a man to die, either for Christ to return or just for you and I to die. And so this understanding, I think is consistent with the Old Testament symbolic use of, like you said before, anointing oil is a sign of the spirit's presence. Not by might nor by power, but by my spirit. And so I'm seeing here like this oil is, I mean, is it going too far to say almost like a saving grace? It's, it's not common grace, it's not the gifts of the spirit, which the reprobate may possess, but I think we're, we're seeing here like that special sanctifying preserving grace, which is inseparable from true election and calling. [00:43:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I think that's spot on. While you were talking, I was actually just looking up, uh, what Calvin has to say on this. I, I think it's funny because I constantly am saying things that I feel like I'm discovering for myself in real time. But if I actually just took the, a little bit of time to read some of our great sources a little more carefully, I would run into them. This is what he says. He says on, uh, verse five, he says, some interpret this slumbering in a bad sense as if believers along with others abandon themselves sloth. And they were, they were asleep amidst the vanities of the world. This is all together inconsistent with the intention of Christ as structure of the parable. [00:44:05] Slow Down And Read [00:44:05] Tony Arsenal: Like I think it's clear now here as we're working through this and this, and this is the main benefit, um, of taking time to just walk through the parables, any, any text of scripture, but the parables is what we're looking at. Taking time to just actually slow down and read them. I didn't intend to get to like a whole discussion about Bible reading plans, but the typical, I'm gonna read the Bible through, uh, the entire Bible in a year that typically has you reading three to five chapters a day is the average. That's probably too much if you want to be reading for understanding. And there is, there's definitely value. I've, I've commented in the past, there's huge value in reading large tracks of scripture all at the same time. Like if you wanna sit down over 10 chapters of Scripture day and you've got the time and the energy and the discipline to do it, then more power to you. But I think it's not realistic to think you're gonna sit down and read 10 chapters of scripture and have good comprehension and retention of the 10 chapters that you read. This is a really good example of that. If you sit down and you read three chapters, you're gonna be reading this, you're gonna be reading, uh, another parable. The parable of the talents you are gonna be reading. You know, the all of it discourse all at the same time, all in one sitting. Um, it's not until just now when I slowed down to really look at these passages, verse by verse individually and take an hour to discuss 13 verses with my brother-in-law in front of a microphone, right? Then I realized all of the virgins fall asleep. Like that's the kind of stuff that you really only, um, you only overcome. The assumed teaching that you heard when you were in high school, 15, you know, 15, 20 years ago at a summer camp. You really only overcome that when you slow down enough to read things and actually comprehend them. So that's not much of a commentary on the passage, but it is something that I'm learning as we do these parable studies. Just slow down, slow down and read them, read them multiple times, read it over and over again. Um, it is totally fine. The, this is the last, uh, Bible reading soapbox thing I'll say tonight. Um, I think like, because. Of the influence of like expository preaching and like wanting to read things in, in context, and all of those things are good. I think there is this tendency to think that if you sit down and just read a very short portion of scripture, that you're kind of automatically taking that out of context. I don't think that's the case. Like it's totally fine to sit down in the morning and go, you know what? I've got, I've got 10 minutes, I've got five minutes. I've got two minutes before the kids are up. I've got two minutes before the bus stop, you know, before the bus gets here. I'm standing at the bus stop. I've got 30 seconds before the coffee's done. It's totally fine to open your Bible app. And read two or three verses of scripture, that's a totally fine thing to do. It's totally fine because you've got 10 minutes before the kids got up. Oh, and by the way, you've gotta unload the dishwasher before they do. Totally fine to sit down and go, I've got time to read 13 verses of scripture today. So that's what I'm gonna get done. Um, and, and then just think about those things like meditate on those scriptures all day. I just think there's a lot of values to that and that's maybe that's my takeaway from this episode. I know like that's not a takeaway directly related to this passage. That's good. But I think we can oftentimes. Have and understand that isn't right because we've been taught it and we don't ever have the time or space in our life to like realize that what we were taught is maybe exactly right. This is like something so obvious on the surface of the text. It didn't even take any real thought. It just took slowing down and actually reading the words  [00:47:45] Jesse Schwamb: right. It's also a good reminder, like we said from the beginning, that our goal here shouldn't be to torture every detail, to like press it for some kind of allegorical significance.  [00:47:55] Tony Arsenal: Yes.  [00:47:55] Jesse Schwamb: But to take it on the face and to understand in context what's being said. And by context I just mean the context of the story. Of the accounts of the drama that's unfolding. And it is pretty remarkable that all 10 virgins sleep, that maybe even as you start with the details might not be your impression that that was gonna be, was gonna be the difference here, but both the wises and the foolish alike fall asleep. So to me, the parable is not condemning sleep per se, but I think it's the absence of oil which the sleep merely reveals, right? That's the critical detail here. And so Jesus delivers that to us and that's why it's, I think, important to think about these, these variables about what the oil represents and the context in which they're tested with their preparedness. But it's not because like they had it almost times you get the impression, it's like what we're saying here is the wise had more stamina, that they were the ones that were just willing to tough it out, and they knew the bridegroom was coming. And so as a result of that, they decided that they were going to ensure that they stayed awake, even if they had the drink, a couple of extra cups of coffee, just to make sure that was the case. But really their sleepiness, which they both have to endure, is the very context in which proves that they do are not prepared by having sufficient oil, not that they're unprepared by having sufficient energy or stamina.  [00:49:18] Prepared Despite Fatigue [00:49:18] Jesse Schwamb: Well, with all.  [00:49:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, that's a good takeaway too, is, is we all, um, we all will succumb to temptation in this life,  [00:49:32] Jesse Schwamb: right? [00:49:33] Tony Arsenal: Right. Every single one of us. And even if we think of sleeping in this negative sense, which I think we probably need to move away from it, even if we do, I think the point that you're making is really good, for instance, between the foolish and the wises is not their ability to stay awake. So I do think that, I do think there's a slightly negative connotation to drowsy and slept here. Like I think that, I think it's intended to show some level of fatigue. Fatigue, maybe not like a moral right, maybe not a moral, uh, negativity, but there's a fatigue. There's something that overcomes both wise and foolish virgins in this parable. Fatigue and drowsiness overcomes them and they sleep. And it's because the bridegroom was delayed, right? We wanna talk about eschatology, right? This is probably also more a commentary on the church as a whole. The church becomes drowsy and sleeps right, and then there's the foolish and the wise. The foolish are the ones who are not prepared even though they are drowsy and sleep. And then there's the wise who are foolish, or the wises who are prepared and are drowsy and sleep. But E, either way, if we think of drowsy and sleep, even in moral negative terms, right? All of us will succumb to temptation. All of us will succumb to sin in this life. I would even go so far as to say all of us sin in every moment of our life in that we never love God. Truly. Yes. With our full hearts and souls. You got that right soul the way that we're, we're commanded to. Right. Right. So all of us become drowsy and sleep. The difference is not in those who pull themselves up by their bootstraps and tape their eyelids open so that they don't fall asleep. Right. I don't, I don't know if you ever like had trouble staying awake in school, but I used to, like I used to sit at my desk with my pencil under my chin. Oh my Lord. So if I started to fall asleep, it would like jab me and I would wake up so I could stay awake in school. Oh. It's not about like gimmicks to stay awake.  [00:51:20] Jesse Schwamb: Right, right.  [00:51:21] Tony Arsenal: It's about the fact that those of us who have trusted Christ. Have received the oil. Yes. So even when we sleep, yes. Even when we are drowsy, even when we are overcome by the fatigue that prevents us from, uh, from resisting sin. Right. Even when that happens, we still have the oil. We still have the grace of the Holy Spirit. We still have the empowering presence and the, the, the justifying reality of Christ's death For us, in my mind as I read this parable, that really is what it is, right? Get the oil, go get the stinking oil now, because you never know when the day or hour is coming. Mm-hmm. Whether that's the day or the hour that you fall asleep and you're not prepared, or whether that's the day or the hour that the bridegroom was, even if you're awake. That's the other element of this. Even if the virgins had stayed awake, they didn't have the oil.  [00:52:11] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:52:12] Tony Arsenal: So it it's not as though, it's not as though had they stayed awake, they would've had time to go get the oil and come back. They, they wake up right away. Like there's nothing in the parable that's like, oh, it took 'em a little while to get up. So that's why they didn't have time to get the oil. They, they didn't have time to get the oil. 'cause there wasn't time to get the oil  [00:52:31] Jesse Schwamb: right.  [00:52:32] Tony Arsenal: So the only way you're going to be properly prepared when the bridegroom comes is if you already have the oil and you're already ready to go. Regardless of whether you fall asleep or not.  [00:52:42] Gospel Call Get Oil [00:52:42] Tony Arsenal: So I, I think, I think we have to kind of close this with like a gospel, a gospel call here. Like we don't do this very often on the show, and I think the vast majority of our show are professed, regenerate Christians. I don't, I don't know anyone who listens to the show that is outwardly not a Christian, but I think this is a time for us to say, listen, if you are hearing the sound of my voice, be diligent to make your calling an election. Sure. And that both takes the form of what Peter talks about, where he talks about growing in graces and walking in, walking in the qualities of holine

ACOFAE Podcast presents: Heated Rivalry: "All romance feels like fantasy at this point." Shane Hollander. Ilya Rosenov. You know the names. You've probably seen the show, and the books are more than likely on your radar. It's Pride so let's let the boys have some fun as ACOFAE discusses book 2 in the Game Changer series by Rachel Reid, Heated Rivalry. A first for Laura Marie, (a sports romance!) Takes readers on one of the longest situationship rides ever as these two hockey players from difference countries and teams fall in love. An MM romance that is sweet and tender, as well as poignant and subtle, Shane and Ilya will stay with you long after the book is finished. Longtime listeners will not be surprised to learn that Jessica Marie has been all over this series and has the books to prove it. TW / CW: discussions surrounding homophobia For additional TW/CW information for your future reads, head to this site for more: https://triggerwarningdatabase.com/ Spoilers: Heated Rivalry (book and show), Game Changers (book 1), ACOSF Mentions: The Devil Wears Prada, Pose, Brokeback Mountain, Euphoria *Thank you for listening to us! Please subscribe and leave a 5-star review and follow us on Instagram at @ACOFAEpodcast and on our TikToks! TikTok: ACOFAELaura : Laura Marie ( https://www.tiktok.com/@acofaelaura) ACOFAEJessica : Jessica Marie (https://www.tiktok.com/@acofaejessica) Instagram: @ACOFAEpodcast https://www.instagram.com/acofaepodcast/ @ACOFAELaura https://www.instagram.com/acofaelaura/ “Lost in the sauce.”

#theboys The country has turned topsy-turvy as Homelander effectively takes charge of Vought (and unofficially, the Presidency); Butcher, Starlight, and Kimiko are in hiding while Hughie, MM, and Frenchie are held in a "Freedom Camp". Ashley is the new VP and A-Train in the wind. A rescue mission is planned to reunite The Boys, but complications arise.

Ped & Burk hit a Saturday night pod and come out swingin! The boys play another round of the 3-2-1 game and see if they can break their previous record! Adam then talks about his awesome fishing day with his Dad, with a few people annoyances sprinkled in. Burk then gives us a legendary perfect song this week! In the meat, Mm!, the fellas rank their top 10 sporting events. From Friday Night Lights to World Series, see how they stack up, with a legendary Nascar pull included. We close by talking into a fan in 1997. Lu lah low lu lay. Hut Hut! Love y'all.  

Submit to Season 4 Courage Files Here! What happens after the book is finally out in the world—and all the noise starts creeping in? In this conversation, indie MM romance author Alex Cross joins me to talk about emotionally intense storytelling, publishing pressure, writer's block, and the challenge of protecting your creativity once readers, reviews, and big expectations enter the picture.We talk about the Fire Between Us series and its highly anticipated second installment, From Our Ashes, which released May 4th, 2026, as well as her stunning Us duet—Echoes of Us and Becoming Us. We dig into the craft, including keeping track of dual timelines, writing toxic relationships, character psychology, and messy, deeply human love stories. Alex also shares her journey into self-publishing, the realities of revising published work, navigating social media and comparison, and learning how to reconnect to why she writes in the first place.It's an honest conversation about creativity, vulnerability, and continuing to write even when fear and doubt get loud.Timestamps04:04 Meet Alex Cross08:29 Choosing a risky debut11:37 Echoes of Us19:11 Crafting dual timelines24:44 Revising published work29:49 Fire Between Us update33:30 Writing high-angst stories35:53 Writer's block + sequel struggles37:56 Reviews, doubt, and social media41:35 Boundaries and support systems44:48 Protecting the magic of writing47:26 What's next + where to find Alex To connect with Alex and read her books, go to her website and follow her on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok.All of Alex's books are available in KU. Have a comment or idea about the show? Send me a direct text! Love to hear from you.Support the show To become a supporter of the show, click here!To get in touch with Stacy:Email: Stacy@writeitscared.cohttps://www.writeitscared.co/wishttps://www.instagram.com/writeitscared/Take advantage of these Free Resources From Write It Scared: Download Your Free Novel Planning and Drafting Quick Start Guide Download Your Free Guide to Remove Creative Blocks and Work Through Fears

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Welcome back to the 284th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 284th episode we bring you a Duet Review of Karma written by Aksam Alyousef, directed & dramaturged by Ash Knight, and presented by Pleiades Theatre. Join Jillian Robinson and Katie Crompton, as they unveil the beauty of scenic specificity, unpack the impact of performing multi-generational trauma, and praise the subtle yet blunt portrayal of our violent histories.Karma plays at Theatre Passe Muraille Mainspace (16 Ryerson Ave.) from May 1 - May 17, 2026. This review contains SPOILERS. The episode will begin with a general non-spoiler review until the [12:08] mark, followed by a more in-depth/anything goes/spoiler-rich discussion. If you intend to see the production, we recommend you stop watching after that point, or at least proceed at your own risk.Follow our panelists:Jillian Robinson – Instagram: @jillian.robinson96 Katie Crompton – Instagram: @katiercrompton // Upcoming Performance : Glee Cabaret with Small but Mighty Productions - https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/glee-cabaret-tickets-1987355816746 - Follow @smallbutmightyproductions_ for more information! Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com.

Welcome back to the 285th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 285th episode we bring you a Duet Review of 12 Litres 880 Steps created, directed, and performed by Anita La Selva, presented by The Unbridled Theatre Collective & Aluna Theatre. Join Mackenzie Horner and Jillian Robinson, as they remark on the power of theatre: a platform to gallop when routine is rigid, to explain when most moments have been quieted, and to be a breath of air quelling drowning pasts.12 Litres 8800 Steps plays at Factory Theatre Mainspace (125 Bathurst St.) from May 1 - May 17, 2026. This review contains SPOILERS. The episode will begin with a general non-spoiler review until the [16:20] mark, followed by a more in-depth/anything goes/spoiler-rich discussion. If you intend to see the production, we recommend you stop watching after that point, or at least proceed at your own risk.Follow our panelists:Jillian Robinson – Instagram: @jillian.robinson96 Mackenzie Horner - Mackenzie Horner – Instagram: (Before the Downbeat: A Musical Podcast) – Instagram/Facebook: @BeforetheDownbeatApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3aYbBeNSpotify: https://spoti.fi/3sAbjAuFollow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com.

Welcome back to the 286th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 286th episode we have a new artist interview. This particular conversation is between our Associate Artistic Producer Jillian Robinson and Ahmed Moneka and Jesse LaVercombe, the book writers of the new The Tragically Hip musical, It's A Good Life If You Don't Weaken, happening now at Theatre Aquarius and remounting in October at Thousand Islands Playhouse. Join this trio as they talk about cohesive collective collaboration, launching Canadian legacy, and their brotherly bond for book-writing and beyond. It's A Good Life If You Don't Weaken plays at Theatre Aquarius (190 King William St., Hamilton, ON) from April 26 - May 24, 2026. Tickets can be purchased at the following link : https://purchasing.theatreaquarius.org/EventAvailability?EventId=9001&ref=bookNow&scroll=timeAndDatesFollow Ahmed - Ahmed Moneka on Apple Spotify or SpotifyFollow Jesse - Instagram : @jesselavercombeFollow Theatre Aquarius - @theatreaquarius Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com.

Welcome back to the 287th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 287th episode we bring you a Duet Review of Tadrak's Tales created & performed by Joel Bazin and presented by Lore Keepers at Red Sandcastle Theatre. Join Jillian Robinson and Raidyn Brodhagen, as they recollect the whimsy of interactive theatre, share secret adventures, and relish in the ways of a goblin market.Tadrak's Tales played at Red Sandcastle Theatre (922 Queen St. East) from May 19 - May 24, 2026. This review contains SPOILERS. The episode will begin with a general non-spoiler review until the [00:11:37] mark, followed by a more in-depth/anything goes/spoiler-rich discussion. If you intend to see the production, if it is remounted in the future, we recommend you stop watching after that point, or at least proceed at your own risk.Follow our panelists:Jillian Robinson – Instagram: @jillian.robinson96 Raidyn Brodhagen – Instagram: @raidynfromstratfordFollow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com.

The visions you described in your journal and in your dreams are delayed not because of denial, but because there is still some development that has to take place. Click here for the MM donation link: https://checkout.square.site/merchant/D135FAXVEN2D7/checkout/Y67QJUO2WKX5JDCDGENK7UPU?src=sheet

Losing a client is never fun, even when you saw the writing on the wall. The only question is how you choose to handle it. In this episode, Chip and Gini cover the practical and emotional side of client departures, from the moment you get the news to the lessons you take away. Gini points out that there are plenty of reasons a client could terminate the relationship, which may have nothing to do with your work. Strategy changes, budget cuts, and leadership turnover all end client relationships that were otherwise going fine. Chip’s advice is to not react immediately. Ask for a couple of days to review the agreement and put together a transition plan. That space lets you get the emotion out before you say something you’ll regret. Once you have your bearings, focus on making the exit clean. Read your actual contract, confirm the notice terms, and hand over everything the client needs: documents, passwords, contacts, work in progress. Chip is blunt about agencies that fight clients on the way out — it accomplishes nothing and just guarantees a bad final impression. Don't burn any bridges and you just might see those clients come back or send you referrals. Finally, be honest with your team about what the loss means for the business. If there are financial implications, say so before people start drawing their own conclusions. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “You never want to react immediately to the news in such a way that you perhaps compound a difficult situation, or at the very least you don’t make it as easy as it should be.” Gini Dietrich: “I always say that you’re remembered by how you left an organization versus the work that you did. And so you never want to burn a bridge, even if you’re caught by surprise, even if you wanted to fire the client and you’re happy about it.” Chip Griffin: “If the client is coming to you and canceling because they’re having financial issues, you’re probably not going to get the money anyway. So rather than fighting for something that probably isn’t there, why don’t you try to make it as painless as possible and get whatever you can so that you’ve built some goodwill potentially for the future?” Gini Dietrich: “Be honest and open with your team because I think they will come with solutions that you may not have thought of or that you may have assumed they’re not willing to do.” Related Why do agencies lose clients? Agency client cancellation policies Agency owners need to put themselves in other people's shoes How to protect yourself from an unexpected client breakup View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, as a famous American once said, “You’re fired.” Gini Dietrich: Oh, no. Chip Griffin: Okay. Maybe … pack your knives and go. Um- Oh … what would you like to go with instead? Gini Dietrich: Yeah, let’s, maybe we’ll do that one. I like that. Chip Griffin: Pack your knives and go. Top Chef is a great show. Gini Dietrich: I love Top Chef. Chip Griffin: Not as good as it was in the early days, but- Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I agree. Yeah … Chip Griffin: it’s still, it’s still kind of fun occasionally, and I, I still- Yeah … do watch part of each season. Yeah. From Restaurant Wars on. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I did love, I did love a little Top Chef. I agree. Chip Griffin:  Jen and one of my kids watch it up until Restaurant Wars, then they let me know, and I come in and I watch Restaurant Wars through the end. Gini Dietrich: That’s funny. They’re like, “Okay, your turn.” Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, that’s where it starts to get interesting, so. Gini Dietrich: That’s funny. Yeah. Chip Griffin: Anyway, no, we are gonna talk about getting fired. Not fired as an owner. We’re, we’re not at that point yet. We don’t have boards that are gonna fire us, most of us at least. Gini Dietrich: Right, right. Chip Griffin: But clients do fire us from time to time, and we’ve had conversations in the past about firing clients ourselves and, and those sorts of things. But, what happens, what do you do when a client calls you up or, worse, sends you an email and says, “We’re done. We’re out”? Yeah, you know, it’s- What are things you should be thinking about at that point? Gini Dietrich: I think so. The, I think there’s a couple of things here. One is that the word, using the word “fired” makes it sound so bad. Sometimes it’s because there’s been a strategy change, there’s been a budget reallocation, maybe leadership has changed, maybe there’s a new VP of marketing or a CCO. Like, there are lots of reasons, right, that have nothing to do with you or the agency or your work. And so saying that you got fired is, I, I just don’t like that term. Now that I have that off my chest, I’ll step down off my soapbox and say, like, there, I think we should always be prepared for the eventual loss of a client. And because we don’t know, right? We don’t- Uh-huh … we can kind of guess, you know, if there are big changes at a leadership level, or if there’s been a reorg, or if the company has sold or things like that, we can guess. Like, we’re probably not gonna be working with that client much longer. We could also sort of read the tea leaves from the perspective of they’ve been ghosting us, and we haven’t been able to get any work done. They’ve been declining meetings or not showing up for meetings. Like, there are lots of reasons that you can kind of read those tea leaves. And so I always think it’s, it’s really good to be prepared. It should never come as a surprise when you lose a client, and you should be prepared. You should have, you should know what you’re going to say, you should know how, what a transition looks like, and you should have a full pipeline that will replace that client fairly quickly, even in a chaotic world that we’re living in right now, so that you’re not caught off guard. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, I think the, you know, the first step when you get this news is, probably 95% of the time you’re gonna be annoyed, upset, unhappy. Gini Dietrich: Sure. Absolutely. Chip Griffin: Some negative emotion. A small percentage of the time you’ll be like, “Oh, thank God, I just- … I, I really wanted to get rid of them anyway.” Yeah. You know? So. Gini Dietrich: Blessing in disguise, yep. Right. Chip Griffin: So, so sometimes that’ll be your reaction, but most of the time it’s not gonna be a happy reaction that you have. And so I think the, the first thing is to just, whether it’s on a call with them or you get it by email or, you know, carrier pigeon or whatever, take a deep breath. Yes. Right? Yes … you, you don’t ever want to react immediately to the news in such a way that you perhaps compound a difficult situation, or at the very least you don’t make it as easy as it could or should be. And I think your advice to, to be prepared for this, certainly if you see the signs on the wall you need to be even more prepared. But sometimes these things are, you know, in retrospect they won’t be a surprise, but you might feel surprised in the moment because you didn’t pick up on all of the little signals along the way and, and that then becomes a learning experience. And I think that’s… to me, that’s one of the most valuable things when you lose a client for whatever reason, is taking advantage of that to learn for the future. Learn the signs to look for. Yep. Learn what you could do differently potentially to maintain the relationship, retain the client. Learn to target better ideal clients, whatever it is. But I, I always like to turn these things into a learning experience as much as possible. But you also have the logistics to actually handle the end of the client relationship, so why don’t we talk about that for a little bit. What, you know, it, it’s not just about the learnings that you can take for the future, it’s how do you handle that immediately? How do you transition the client out? Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I think, you know, I always say that you’re always remembered by how you left an organization versus the work that you did. And so you never wanna burn a bridge, even if you’re caught by surprise, even if you wanted to fire the client and you’re happy about it, you should never burn a bridge because you just never know, right? So understanding what contract they signed and what the terms of agreement are, you know? We had a situation where I was working with a girlfriend and, she lost a big, big, big, big client. It came out of the blue, that she was not expecting it because she’d had a conversation a week prior that everything was fine. And so she works with several contractors, and we had to say like, “We’re really sorry. We know that we thought you were gonna be doing work in May and June,” and, like, we go, “The client’s gone.” So, and she had one person come back to her and say, like, “We have a 30-day agreement,” blah, blah, blah. They didn’t have a 30-day agreement, but in her mind they had a 30-day agreement. Sure. In the paperwork, there was no 30-day agreement. So I use that as an example because in your mind you may have a 30 or 60 or 90-day termination clause that may not have made it to the final piece. Maybe you have it for some clients and not others. Like, you have to really do your research to, and go back and read the executed agreement so you know what those terms are. And then spend that time ensuring that there’s a seamless transition, that they’re getting all the documents that you’ve created, that they understand where things are, that they understand where the passwords are, where you, what you have access to, all of those kinds of things. ‘Cause I will tell you, there have been situations where we’ve lost a client and we’re still in their Google Analytics. We’re still the admin on their Facebook page. Like, stuff like that, I’m like, “You guys, we’re not gonna do anything bad, but you really need to take us off.” Chip Griffin: Right, right. I mean, I’ve had former clients where, where I have had admin level access to a lot of their stuff- Yes … for as much as a decade afterwards. Gini Dietrich: Yes, yes. Chip Griffin: Even when I flag it for them and say, “Hey, guys- Gini Dietrich: Yes … Chip Griffin: you might wanna take me out.” Gini Dietrich: Yes, yes. Chip Griffin: It, it’s kind of amazing at times that- It, it is, yeah … the things that, that people don’t pay attention to. But, I mean, I think that that’s great advice to, you know, to understand what your agreements say, and to really just focus on how do you make it as smooth a transition as possible. No matter how frustrated you are, you need to try to think through how do we make this as pain-free for everybody? Because you can make it difficult for them, but that’s really just gonna make it difficult for you. Yep. And to your point, that’s how you’re gonna be remembered, as the person who made it difficult. And so, you know, if you get it on a, if you get the information on a call, you know, certainly say, “Hey, look, you know, let’s, let’s put together a wind-down plan or transition plan,” or however you wanna frame it. Part of that will depend on how sudden it is. You know, are, are they saying, “We’re not gonna renew in, you know, three months,” or is it, you know, “We’re giving you as short a notice as possible”? That will affect the timelines- Sure … and those sorts of things. Yep, yep. But, but it doesn’t affect the fact that you want to try to make sure that you are making it smooth and clean and painless. And don’t hesitate to say, “Hey, let me, let me think about this and come back to you with a plan-” Right “for how we do it.” Right, right. You don’t have to have every answer in the moment, and, and giving yourself that time to step back and absorb it may allow you to come forward with a more productive plan all the way around. Because your goal has to be to make sure that you’re fulfilling your contract, while at the same time trying to get them to fulfill their end of it. Right. And, and the more that you fight, the less likely you are to even get what you are due under the agreement. And so, you know, you wanna try to make it as, as friendly as possible in, in how you wind it down to make sure that you do get those payments that you are still owed. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, and I think, you know, if it comes as a surprise, I think you’re absolutely right that saying things like, “You know, gosh, I’m really sorry to hear this. I’ve really enjoyed working with you. Let me take a couple of days to craft a transition plan.” That gives you time. They, from their perspective, they’re like, “Okay, they’re being thoughtful about this and, you know, strategic about it, and they’re gonna be helpful.” And that gives you time to settle yourself and, you know, be, get all the emotion out of it and actually create something productive. Chip Griffin: Right. And it can be a, particularly if it’s done over the phone, it gives you that opportunity to sit down and take a look at the contract and see- Yeah … what it says. Yeah. Because then you can, you can go back to them and say, “Okay, you know, in order to make sure we do this the right way, you know, we’ll need the notification in writing so that, you know, we can memorialize this properly to protect both of us.” And I think you always wanna use that kind of language when you’re dealing with contract stuff. This is for both of our benefit, even if really maybe it’s more for you- Yeah … than for them, but you wanna stress the, the for both of us. And that’s also your opportunity to then look at other clauses in there that, that maybe are to your benefit, like the notification period, that maybe you didn’t bring up on the call. You know, you can say, “Hey, you know, we need to make sure we get this in writing, and of course, as, as you know from this agreement, you have 30, 60, 90, whatever the notification period is. So, you know, we’ll work to that, as we wind this down.” Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I think, you know, there are, we, and we’ve talked about this before too, like our contracts say 90 days, and there are some clients where I’m like, “I don’t need to hold you to that. We’re good.” Like some- Right. Right? And then there are situations- Chip Griffin: How about, how about 90 minutes? How about 90 minutes? Can we, can we just be- 90 seconds? 90 seconds? We can be done now. We’re just, I’m out. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I’m good. Yep. Good. Yep. See ya. Yep. But then there are also situations, you know, we had the Great Recession, we had COVID. There are some situations where you’re just like, you just be, you can be understanding and be like, “Gosh, I’m really, yeah, I’m really sorry to hear business sucks, and we have a 90-day termination clause, but let me, let me waive that for you, and let’s do this instead.” And you’re always seen in good light when you do those things. Yep. And in fact, every time I have done that, either that business has come back or they’ve referred business to us. So you don’t wanna do that in every situation, and you don’t wanna hurt your cash flow, you know, if it’s, if it’s gonna be detrimental. But there are situations where you can be a little more understanding and use, use that kind of language so that they understand that you’re doing them a favor, ’cause you’re, you really are doing them a favor in some cases. Chip Griffin: Well, more to the point, if the client is coming to you and canceling because they’re having financial issues, whether it’s because of a global pandemic or there’s just something specific to their business, you’re probably not gonna get the money anyway. Gini Dietrich: Fair. Chip Griffin: Right? So, so rather than fighting for something that probably isn’t there anyway, why don’t you try to make it as painless as possible and get whatever you can so that you’ve built some goodwill potentially for the future? Because you also have to keep in mind that most of the time we’re not working with the actual owner of the business. Most of the time, even in a mid-sized business, we’re working with someone at least a step or two removed from that level. And so why are we making their life more difficult when it’s not, you know, it may not even be their ability to make a decision, particularly if it’s financially related. So, you know, think about that, and put yourself in their shoes if you were in a position. If you’ve got contractors, think about, you know, you want to react to them the same way you want your contractors to react to you. Gini Dietrich: Right. Yep. Chip Griffin: And, you don’t want your contractors coming at you, right? Yeah, yep. And you wanna try to work something out amicably. You should be doing the same thing upstream from you in the relationship as well. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I just, I think your earlier point about taking some time, and just, you know, it’s, it usually comes as a shock. Even if, even if we’ve read the tea leaves, it still is surprising. It still is stressful. It still has some risk involved. And so just take a beat and use the language of, you know, “Give me a couple of days to put together a transition plan.” And I think that helps you process it all, get the emotion out, and then start to salvage the relationship as best you can so that there is referral business later, or maybe they do come back later, or whatever happens to be. Chip Griffin: Right. I mean, time is your friend on these things in order to, you know, to formulate a better response. And most of the time when we react too quickly, it’s when we end up regretting it somewhere down the road. So- you know, buy yourself the time to avoid that future regret. Gini Dietrich: I will, I will tell you that 100 years ago when I started my agency, the first client I lost, I cried. And the client felt really, really bad, and I was mortified, but I cried. Chip Griffin: Oh, you, you cried when the client told you? Oh, wow. Gini Dietrich: I did. Uh-huh. Okay. So I will say that, you know, you learn and you grow, and you understand that sometimes it’s just not personal. I took it very personally because it was the first time it had ever happened. Like, I’d, I’d never been fired from a job. I’d never like … it was the first time it had ever happened. So I, I did. I’ve matured since then, but there are, you know, there are things that you’re just like, it’s an emotional time. Chip Griffin: Sure. I mean, nobody would ever enjoy that kind of- Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: experience. Mm-mm. Yeah. I, I mean, certainly any time I’ve ever had a contract end, I, I haven’t been like, “Yay!” Gini Dietrich: Right? Chip Griffin: I mean- Gini Dietrich: Woo-hoo! … Chip Griffin: it, it sucks. Yeah. I can’t say that I’ve ever cried when I’ve gotten that news, but may have hung up the phone and had a few choice words for the atmosphere around me or something like that. But, you know, it is what it is. So okay, so, you know, we’re, we’re thinking through the actual communications with the client who has fired us. Sorry, terminated the agreement- Let us go … or shared the decision. Mm, right. Whatever. Yeah. Whatever language you wanna use. I’m, I’m still a fan of firing because that’s kinda what it is. So now we need to think about two things, I think immediately. One is how do we communicate it to our team, whether that’s contractors or employees, and as a corollary to that, how are we going to act as a client for the remainder of the relationship that we have? So not the technical details of working out the trip, but the, you know, how do we continue to service them in that moment? And those two are related because as soon as you tell your team, you know, “Hey, this, this agreement is ending,” they’re probably gonna start mentally checking out of that relationship just as you have. Gini Dietrich: Of course. Yep. Chip Griffin: And I think we need to really fight that urge. Yep. Because, because it, uh, as you say, it is how you exit that people remember you, and a lot of that comes down to if you had, particularly if you have a longer notice period, right? If you’ve got a, you know, say a 60 or 90-day notice period, you can’t just, you know, put pens down unless they, the client is like, “No, we just, we’re, we’re done. We’ll just keep paying you, but we’re not.” Sometimes that does happen- It sure does, yep … where they treat it as sort of severance for the agency. It’s not super common, but it does happen. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: But it needs to be on them to reduce your workload, not on you to say, “Eh, we don’t care anymore.” Gini Dietrich: Right. And I think, you know, if you’re doing things like media relations, it’s ensuring that those, the stories that are in progress or the things that are in progress, the pitches that are in progress, those get transferred over. If you, like we said, if you hold the keys to anything, you have to make sure that those are transferred over. All of the things that you have in progress, understand, you know, to your point, that it may be like they just want you to stop work immediately and hand everything over, or they may want you to continue, finish, they want you to finish things that are in progress. But understand what that is so that you can ensure that. And one of the things I always say to my team, and I repeat that, repeat what I said at the beginning, which is, you know, you’re always remembered how, by how you left. It is our job to transition smoothly and make sure that nothing falls through the cracks. Yep. And I understand that you’re checked out. I’m checked out. I’m surprised by this. It’s not, you know, this, this is gonna be a little bit of a painful process, but we have to be professional, and we have to ensure that we’re transitioning cleanly. Chip Griffin: Yeah, and please do not fight them. It’s, I mean, ’cause that’s even worse than-you know, we, we just kinda give up. But I’ve seen many agencies where they basically fight clients on the way out the door, and the client will say, “Can I have this? Can I have the latest draft of this even though it’s not finished?” And they’ll be like, “Well, no, because, you know, we’re not gonna be working with you anymore, and so, you know, you don’t get the draft. You only get the final version.” No. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely not. No. No. Yeah. Chip Griffin: If you’re doing media relations and they wanna know who you’ve reached out to about a press release- Yes … just tell them. Gini Dietrich: Just tell them, yes. Chip Griffin: Do not fight them on this. I agree. I, I, for the life of me, I do not understand- Gini Dietrich: Yep. I totally agree with that Chip Griffin: the, the way, particularly the PR agencies seem to be particularly guilty of this in my view, where they just will not share with the client anything that they’re doing in terms of detail around outreach or those kinds of things because, well, then they can do it on their own. Okay, fine. Let them, right? They’ll figure out it’s not that easy. It’s not just having the spreadsheet of what contacts you’ve made. Yeah. I’m not saying you need to give them your whole database with all of your personal notations about, you know, stuff that you do across other clients. But if it’s pitch work that you’ve done for this client, give them the information. Come on, man. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, yeah. I mean, especially if it’s in progress and there’s, like- Yes … something’s happening, like, there’s no reason on Earth not to give them that information. Chip Griffin: No, no reason. And, look, if all you’re good for is, is a spreadsheet, it probably wasn’t worth hiring you anyway. Yeah. So, you know, you, you’ve got to be realistic about these kinds of things. But as you’re communicating with your team, you want them to understand that, that they need to have this same mentality of being helpful and making sure they finish strong. I think the other thing is to, to make sure that, that you’re communicating clearly with your contractors and employees about what this means. Hopefully, what it means is you’ve got a strong pipeline, and so, you know, it’s a bump in the road, but it’s not a big deal. But if it is a big deal, don’t try to hide that fact, right? I mean, you don’t have to like terrify them. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: But, but if it does, if you’ve got a contractor and it’s probably gonna mean that you’re gonna have to cut them altogether or partially, if you think it’s, you know, a giant client and it might lead to layoffs, be honest with people sooner rather than later. Because the more you put this off, the harder it is to deal with. Yeah. And again, it’s a balancing act, ’cause you can’t, you can’t just be, you know, like panicking them, which is again another argument for taking a deep breath, absorbing the information, figuring out your plan. You don’t have to hang up the phone and then immediately call up all your team and say, “Oh my God, we just lost Acme Pharmaceuticals,” right? I mean, that doesn’t help anybody. Take the time, think it through, think through the questions you’re likely to get so that you can communicate confidently, but also honestly. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, and I would say If you have access to an HR team or person, if you have access to a legal team or an attorney, reach out to them as well because as you’re crafting this plan because they’re gonna have a different… They’re gonna look at it through a different lens. They’re gonna have a different perspective, especially if you have a team, getting HR involved in that to say, “Okay, here’s scenarios A, B, and C” to help you plan so that when an employee asks, you have a response, and it’s not just shot from the hip a little bit. Right. And I, I know I’ve told this story before, but during the Great Recession, you know, we had 95% of our clients left between Christmas and New Year’s of 2008, 2009, and I had to go back to the office and lay everybody off. And the biggest mistake I made, I made two big mistakes in that. One is that everybody was talking about the economy and the Great Recession and all this stuff for a year, but I didn’t pay any attention. I didn’t… Like, I wouldn’t, I wasn’t mature enough. I wasn’t experienced enough, and so I just kind of put my blinders on and was like, “Everything’s great. We’re growing.” You know? Yeah. And so I didn’t plan. And the second thing I did, mistake I made is I didn’t let the team know ahead of time, and I didn’t think I could. And I’ll never forget this as long as I live. One of my employees came up to me after I let everybody know, and she said, “I wish you had told us because I would’ve been happy to go part-time.” And I was like, ohhh. Chip Griffin: Right. Gini Dietrich: You know? Like, yeah. Chip Griffin: Yeah. Gini Dietrich: So be honest and open because I think they will come with solutions too that you may not have thought of or that you may have assumed they’re not willing to do when they are. Chip Griffin: Right. Absolutely. So then I think that takes us to that, that final piece, as we’re wrapping up here, and, and that is to take lessons away from it. Because there’s something to be learned from the end of every relationship, whether it’s because it was a project and it just, it naturally ran its course, or because you were on a retainer and they decided to end it or what have you. Yep. There are always lessons to be learned, and I think it’s, it’s really helpful to sit down with your team, not just at the end, but at key milestone points as well and say, “Okay, you know, what, what have we learned from this? What could we have done differently? What should we do differently, not just with this client but with others in the future?” And make sure that you treat as much of what you’re doing as a learning experience as possible because that’s how you really grow- both individually and as a business. If you just keep doing the same old, same old, you might do okay, but you’re not gonna do as well as you could if you’re actually studying what you’ve done in the past. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I mean, that’s the example I just gave is a great example of that. Yeah. Now I know. Chip Griffin: Yeah. Gini Dietrich: That’s a great lesson. Chip Griffin: It’s why, again, I watch all of these episodes back so that I can sit there and say, “Okay, you know, what would I do differently next time?” Maybe I’ll lower the microphone a little bit, raise my voice a little bit, talk a little bit less so that we can actually hear from Gini, and I don’t just monopolize all the time. You don’t monopolize the time. And have Jen tell me what percentage of time I’ve spoken versus… I do talk a lot. I understand that. But it’s, it’s something I consciously work on every podcast that I’m on because I know that I have a tendency to talk a lot. Gini Dietrich: Okay. I don’t think you monopolize the time here. No. Chip Griffin: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Gini Dietrich: You’re welcome. Chip Griffin: So, I guess we’re not gonna monopolize any more of your time as a listener, so we will wrap up today’s episode, but hopefully we’ve given you a few things to think about the next time that you get that dreaded call or email from a client who is not firing you, but ending the relationship in whatever fashion we wanna call it, so. Gini Dietrich: It’s not always being fired. Chip Griffin: Okay. Gini Dietrich: Fired, fired means that you did a bad job. Chip Griffin: Okay. On that note, I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

Tiff and Nikki continue the topic of your practice's vision by discussing how to turn it into something your entire team believes in. They discuss believing in your own vision first, communicating it to your team, establishing consistency and repetition so everyone remembers it, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I'm so excited to be here with you guys today. You know I say that every single time because I truly love what we do. I love what Dental A Team stands for and I love the podcast. and set out a long time ago to really, really, really just provide so much amazing, incredible information for the dental world and beyond. We have listeners on here who are not a part of the dental world. We serve all kinds of business owners and ⁓ healthcare providers and all kinds of people. So it's just really cool. And I want you guys to know how special you are.   And today I have with me a super special guest, someone you guys have not heard from before. I get the amazing privilege of bringing Ms. Nikki Mack onto the stage with us here today in our little podcast universe. Nikki, welcome. How are you today?   Nikki Mack (00:31) Okay.   I'm so good, I'm so excited to finally get to be a part of it. I'm on the other side now, long time listener, first time participator. ⁓   The Dental A Team (00:53) Yeah.   I love that you have been a long time listener. So thank you for that. And for those of you who have not yet met Nikki, you probably were not at our in-person event in February, which means you should get your tail over there next time so that you can meet all of us in person. And very specifically, Miss Nikki Mack here. She has joined our team. She is new to Dental A Team is what we like to say, but she has been in consulting in the DSO world in the   you know, general practitioner role, the family practice role, like all over the place. She's been, she has so much experience. She's been all over the block. We'll call her Nikki from the block from now on. I've got your nickname, Nikki. Yeah, there you go. Carol come up with a new one. But Nikki's, Nikki has been with our team for a few months now. We are just so, so happy to have you, Nikki, a wealth of knowledge. Your clients are already seeing massive results. They are.   Nikki Mack (01:36) love it.   The Dental A Team (01:49) loving you and you connect so easily. So everyone just give Nikki a huge shout out and come meet her at our next in-person event in September here in Phoenix. So Nikki, welcome and gosh tell me I'll do an icebreaker for you for the world here. I know, I didn't prep you for this. Yep, unscripted, that happens. That's how my brain works. So let's talk   Nikki Mack (02:03) Yeah.   Ooh, okay, unscripted. Love it.   The Dental A Team (02:16) Let's talk dental, we won't get too crazy. Tell us your favorite position within the dental world. It doesn't have to be within the practice, it can be outside. What's your favorite position you've ever held?   Nikki Mack (02:28) that I've ever held. ⁓ This is probably gonna come as a surprise or not. ⁓ Marketing, like doing the like B2B marketing and stuff. ⁓ I just, I love being able to get out and connect with lots of practices and being able to represent my team. You know, when I go out like on behalf of a doctor, it's super exciting. Cause like I love the office I'm in. I love the team I work with and the doctor I work for and getting to be the person that   The Dental A Team (02:35) I'll ask them.   Nikki Mack (02:56) like shares our office with the world. ⁓ It's just, it's so fun. So, and you get to meet new people, yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:01) That's really cool.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you thrive meeting new people so I could see that for sure. That's awesome. What kind of practice did you do B2B marketing for?   Nikki Mack (03:06) Hahaha.   So that was my time with ⁓ pediatrics and orthodontics. Yep, the most. So yeah, fun events and things like that.   The Dental A Team (03:16) Awesome. I figured. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah,   yeah, we have a lot of pediatric practices and a few ortho actually. So I know the team will be picking your brain because marketing for pediatrics is a massive space to ⁓ unfold, we shall say. Awesome. Very cool.   Nikki Mack (03:33) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:36) Well, today, you guys, we really wanted to chat with you some about your vision and communicating your vision. So we walked you through quite a few times. And if you haven't heard them go back through and listen. If you haven't worked with your consultant yet to get your vision out, go call your consultant. We've worked through kind of how to get your vision, how to get there. And I think you guys might remember, I think it was Dana and I, or Christie and I, really chatting about how like your vision, your mission, your reason for being here isn't necessarily.   what is scripted on your wall that says bringing great smiles to our community. Like, yeah, we're bringing great smiles to our community, but what does that great smile mean? How are we actually impacting the people? And today we wanted to chat. I wanted to pick Nikki's brain here on how to communicate that across to your team. So your team actually believes it. And I think more than anything, Nikki, it's really how do dentists and how do you coach your doctors on   expressing their vision in a way that the team not only believes it, because I think there's a difference in like believing it, I can believe that that's your vision, like cool, yep, that's your vision. And me as a team member living it and breathing it, it's a massive difference. So believing it and standing behind it. And with your experience, the things that you've done and the coaching you do now,   How do you help doctors to really, practice owners to really take that vision and create it to be something that a team can move forward with?   Nikki Mack (05:07) Well, and I think a big part of it really stems from that leadership piece and having a team that values you and believes in you as a leader. And then the vision just supports that. But you kind of hit on it. You have to believe it too. If I'm the doctor or the practice owner and I'm unclear on my vision, how can I expect my team to understand it or follow it? Now you'll always have those employees that just value you and will lead wherever you go. Right. doc, we're going to be, I want it. But   The Dental A Team (05:35) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (05:36) Some need to know why we're going there. They'll do what you need, but why are we doing it? So my first step with a team or a doctor is usually what really is your vision? Not what you think your vision is. Let's talk about what is your vision and how do we use that to get ourselves where we want to be? How do we use that to support our goals?   The Dental A Team (05:56) I love that I actually are making me think of something that I heard the other day on is on a Mel Robbins was actually her book, the left them theory. So some of you guys may have heard this or read it. And she talks about, I'm going to botch the first name, but one of the Toyota brothers has the theory of five wise and ask it was forced like she is in context. I'm sure he is in context of when you're bothered by something or you have like a miscommunication or an upset in life, asking yourself like, why does this bother me but   As you're speaking, Nikki, I'm actually thinking it's so hard to dig to your root. why I think is for me, my quote unquote, why are my vision is it feels like it's my purpose. And I think we spend our entire lives seeking our purpose. And we're like, why am I, we've read the purpose driven, you know, books and all these things. And we're constantly looking for it, but realistically it's getting under the surface layers of your thoughts.   because there's so much wrapped around what you think it should be, how you think it should be perceived, how you think it should be ⁓ communicated to anyone. And so I wonder even like that five why theory is, you know, why do I want to change smiles in my community? Well, because, okay, why is that important to me? Well, because and really taking it so deep. I feel like when you feel that emotional tug, and then you speak from that emotion,   that's your why. And the people around you, I mean, I guess if they're the right people, right, if they're the wrong people on the right bus, they're probably not going to feel the emotional tug to it as well, you know, right alongside with you. But when you do finally get to that emotional tug why, I feel like people can't help but be like, yeah, let's do that. Like that sounds freaking amazing. And it might not be specifically my why, but I want to support you in it because I'm so excited.   by your excitement for what you're about to step into the world to do.   Nikki Mack (07:57) Yep, I think excitement is the key word there. You have to be excited about your why and your team has to as well. It's some of the doctors I still think about, you all these years later that I worked for, it's their why and how excited they were to fulfill that purpose, right? And we get to, you know, change the face of dentistry, right? All these people that hate going to the dentist and then they get to come to our office and now they have a different outlook. Like those whys that drive you.   they inspire your team. And that's that kind of key to leadership. You have to understand that piece and be super clear because that's what drives your team, I think, at their core too. Especially to your point, when it's the right people, you're aligned and you guys are just rowing that boat forward, right?   The Dental A Team (08:39) Yeah.   Yeah, and then allows   them the space your team to search for their own. So I know when Kiera got really clear on her why and the vision for this company, it was like, I can live that. And then I saw, this is how mine actually like follow suit or attaches to Kiera's and the company's why how I serve a purpose in this company based on what I want to do in the world.   how I want to show up and how I want to impact the world, I can see how my purpose is served within the company, why as well.   Nikki Mack (09:22) Exactly. Yep. And that I think too, when you're working at a team, because if you're a doctor or a practice owner and you're growing or you're just leveling up, it's challenging sometimes. And it's that drive and that why that helps keep both you and your team motivated to push towards that end result. That's why we see a patient through lunch. That's why we start a same day for someone who really needs it. It's why we do those things. And that makes it to where   the goal makes sense. It's not just spinning our wheels. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (09:52) Yeah.   Yeah,   and ⁓ working through lunch makes me think of, ⁓ you know, one, we've all done that, right, the freaking root canal that has to go through lunch every single time. But when you're attached to how we're here to serve and show up for our patients, working through lunch is a lot less daunting. I know there are some days that I'm like, heck yeah, let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's help this person. And there are other days that I was like, ⁓ another lunch hour. Like, what the heck, but like, I still got lunch. I just took lunch after.   Nikki Mack (09:58) Hahaha   Ha   The Dental A Team (10:22) lunch or before lunch, like we still worked it out, but there were some days that it was like inspiring to help this person. And then there were other days that it was like, I kind of forgot our reason and our purpose. And it was more like it was being forced on me. And those were different seasons of practice and different seasons of, of life there within. But I agree. That's my point there. And I think once you have that, then you're literally, you're speaking it. And, and I think   Nikki Mack (10:45) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (10:51) Something that we often miss is the repetition that's needed in life for everything. needs to be repeated. We have to build systems. People, I think, think life can be so mundane and it's like routines suck. Like you shouldn't have like all of your life shouldn't be a routine. Like no, actually consistency is human nature. We want to be consistent. We want the routines. And when we're not repeating things, they get lost and they get forgotten.   Nikki Mack (10:57) Yes.   The Dental A Team (11:20) And I think Nikki, something I've noticed in coaching is that we'll key in on it. Doctors are like, heck yeah, let's do it. And then six months later, they're just in the mundane and they're like, I'm working through lunch again, this sucks. So how do you help your doctors and your teams to stay in their why in that vision?   Nikki Mack (11:41) Well, and it's funny you mentioned how you do get to that point where you're like, why are we doing this? You have to revisit it. So I think the same way that we talk about doctors and practice owners being clear with themselves before they hit the team, you also have to revisit it as a team. So one of the things I've suggested in my coaching before is like about quarterly or at least twice a year in our team meetings, we're readdressing that why and our mission, our values.   so that the team is clear. Because the day-to-day in a dental office is a whirlwind, right? And talk about routine and repetition. Sometimes it can be a grind, and that's a good thing, but you have to be able to circle back. And ⁓ what is that expression, slow down to speed up? We have to take a step back, and what is that vision? Why are we doing this? And is what we're doing aligning with our values, right? Working through lunch to help a patient, amazing. Love it, always wanna do it.   The Dental A Team (12:16) Yeah.   Yeah.   Nikki Mack (12:40) working through lunch just as a routine, because we're not scheduling well, that probably doesn't align with our vision and we need to kind of revisit it. So it's okay to evaluate our systems and our processes and how does this align with our vision and does it get us where we want to go? So I usually recommend absolutely quarterly is like my dream as your consultant, but at least a couple of times a year, how does this fit? Where are we at? Because you're going to have team change too, right? People are going to change positions. We might grow and get new team members.   And so we have to make sure that everybody's kind of on that same page and approaching it from the same place, I think is what keeps us ⁓ consistent and in that, you know, good mindset, that good position.   The Dental A Team (13:22) Yeah, and something you said sparked a thought. said, is this an alignment? like working through lunch to help somebody is an alignment. Working through lunch just because it's a routine, it may not be an alignment. And I think you keyed in on something really special there of really looking at what are we doing that is serving ROI and what are we doing that is pulling us away from ROI or just.   opposing our why because it's so easy in dentistry to get so like keyed in on just what's not working. So like let's just complain bucket and we're always working through lunch. Well, why does it suck? It sucks because it's not in alignment with what we said we wanted to do. That's why it sucks. If we said we are an office that works through lunch every single time, great.   we can be upset about it, but that we are in alignment with, this is what I'm choosing to do. But when that's not an alignment, that's where we get those upsets and that like rubbing raw situation. so Nikki, even like going through as often as you can, love the quarterly, love, I mean, do you guys want to talk about it every week? Please talk about it all the time. And Nikki is, yeah, it's like, bring those examples. What did we do this week? What did we do this quarter?   Nikki Mack (14:31) We're in.   The Dental A Team (14:41) that served our why, how did we help people? And when you start from there, you're inspired again. So we wanna talk about communicating your vision to your team so they believe it. Like what is your vision and how are we serving it? And how is that serving us as humans and serving our community I think is huge.   Nikki Mack (15:02) Yeah, 100%. It's how I think it establishes for you that baseline. You know, like we said, because we can always bring it back to our vision is what we're doing in alignment, is what we're doing supporting it, is what we're doing helping move it forward. And it's a way to not only grow, but hold ourselves accountable to, you know, the choices and decisions we're making, the systems we use, how do we reevaluate those and make sure that they make sense for the practice, the patients, you know, the team.   It's that mission, it's that values that we talk about that are gonna steer that ship, I think, yeah.   The Dental A Team (15:37) I think so too. And you keyed in again on like something massive is really how we choose to consult, how our company consults. Because what you just said is really looking at the systems, the protocols, the procedures, the things that we are doing every day, are they serving us and our mission and our vision and where we are going? And the reason Dental A Team doesn't pop into your team and into your practice with this massive cookbook that says A to Z, this is how you should do things.   is because you are an individual practice with an individual mission that's serving a different purpose than the guy down the street. And if we gave you and the guy down the street the same recipe book, it's not guaranteed to work. Are some things going to stick and some things going to work? Absolutely, 100 % hands down. Do we do the same systems and similar systems with each practice? 100 % hands down. But the autonomy in it is how does this system   serve you and what you said there Nikki is how are they how how are the systems and things that we're doing every day how are they pushing us forward it's exactly how we consult and you keying in on that is huge because your teams your practices Nikki are getting something really special from you because I know you lead with their why I've watched you do it I get to watch it on recap so I've watched your recap from your in-office visit you just had in Vegas it's   It just looked freaking incredible. And I know you know him as a human. You know his why. And everything that you did with that team served that and taught them to go back and see, OK, is this working to progress towards what our goals are for our vision and our practice goals, or is it detracting us?   Nikki Mack (17:27) Yeah, it's honestly, it's one of the things I love the best about being a part of Dental A Team is that we truly understand that every practice is different. And a lot of people say that because we know it, right? But I've worked in the dental sphere in a few different like worlds and specialties and, you know, like ownership profiles and everyone is so different. And that's not even counting demographics, right? You know, where we are, are we urban or we rural? Is it saturated? Is it not?   The Dental A Team (17:51) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (17:56) And I think that's why there's just no blanket answer that fixes things. And Dental A Team does such a good job of getting to that why. And why do you want to get to a place? And here's how I can help you get there that stays true to you and your practice and your identity. For me, that's kind of the most fun part is if we know where we're going, then perfect. I've got some tools to put in your toolbox and help get us there, but it's got to feel like you. I can't do it for you or tell you how to be perfect.   I'm here to help you get there and make it work. And I think that's why teams get on board. We're not asking them to just do a cookie cutter situation. The doctor's involved, the team's involved, and it feels like you. It feels authentic. It's something that you can present. Circling back to my marketing thing, right? It's something your team can be proud of and sharing that with the world, whether it's the patients in their chair or the oral surgeon down the street or whatever that looks like.   The Dental A Team (18:43) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (18:54) That's why it's so important. It truly shapes every decision that you make in your practice. And I love getting to kind of help that discovery and then finding out those next steps. That's so important and empowering. I love it.   The Dental A Team (19:09) Yeah, I completely agree. You circle back to the marketing and I, I love that kind of marketing too. I really do. I love the beat. I love marketing. You can listen to a couple podcasts ago. ⁓ I love the marketing, but this is why because to me, the marketing is that relationship build and that like speaking of the vision because when you believe in a practice, you believe in what we're doing. You want people   to know, you want to talk about it, you want to invite them to the practice, you want to invite them to invite their friends and family members to the practice and leave great reviews and you want to do all of these things and when you think about it, if you're bought into it, you're like, yes, I want to serve this mission too in this vision, you're showing up different every day because now I'm showing up as the person, okay, wait, back up, like I said when we first started, right?   I said, know, I told you, before we got on here, told you, Kiera, prior to knowing me in person, personally, she stalked me on Facebook and she saw, wow, she's super fun. She's always on Facebook Live. She's doing Beachbody coaching. And I did, and I loved it. I loved it because I loved the energy and I loved the people. And obviously it like forced me to work out. Kiera thought she was hiring this like,   heck yeah, let's go cheerleader who is just 100 % on all the time. But what she didn't realize is I'm secretly like, not even secretly, I'm a very, I'm a Taurus through and through, like I'm the bull sleeping in the pasture as often as I can. So I'm super efficient so that I can have a ton of time to just do nothing if I want to do nothing. So what happens is here, right, I become Tiffanie that's podcasting.   I become Tiffanie who's showing up as your consultant. I become Tiffanie who's on stage. Just like we all show up a little bit differently in the space of life that we're living in. And it's putting on a show, but not with that negative connotation that that sounds like. Like, no, I'm here because I want to change lives. But when it's just, know, Tiff on the couch, like I am a much calmer, chiller person, not as much energy as being exerted. And it makes me   It makes me think of this because even at the dental practice when I was in office, when I showed up as a check-in, I was the check-in person and I was the first person you saw. I was like, hey, how's it going? Let's chat about your kids. Let's do this. Let's do that. And it invigorated me. It gave me energy in life to be able to do those things because I believed in what we were doing. And the moments that that vision got lost, that we weren't talking about it, or that life got stressful, the practice was stressful, the bills were stressful, the   ⁓ refinancings were they were stressful. Those are the times that I didn't know how to show up like that life was hard. I was getting depressed and I was like, what the heck and it all ties back to that significance piece of having a purpose and when I know the why of the of the person that I'm dedicating my life work to, it gives me a sense of purpose, if that makes sense.   Nikki Mack (22:19) Nope, total sense, because it helps you show up. We talk a lot in dental about being on stage, right? You know, kind of turning that game face on, but it's so true because we are dealing with all kinds of things behind the scenes, right? Like you said, it could be crazy schedules, a clearing house, you know, gets hacked and nobody can get paid for months. And there's always some chaos, but the patients don't know that. And each patient that comes in, this is their first interaction with you.   The Dental A Team (22:25) Yes.   Mm.   Nikki Mack (22:46) And sometimes it can be so hard as a team member to just keep turning it on and showing up at 100. And it sounds crazy. I know someone is listening to this, like, I know she's not about to say what she's about to say, but I am because in those tough moments, knowing why you're doing it, it's like a power reserve. And it's how you're able to kind of like take that deep breath. Okay.   And we turn our game face on and we go back to it, know, my God, Mrs. Smith, we haven't seen you in so long. We're so excited you're here. How was your vacation? It's whatever that looks like as showing up as a team member. That's where that well comes from. That's that reserve. And it sounds crazy, but we've seen it. And successful practices, their doctors are clear about their vision and their team has bought in and they support it. It's their vision too, right?   It means a lot. It's a lot of people overlook it. I do think it's one of those like, I'll get to it. But first I have to get, you know, this implant scheduling down, but it's just as important as those pieces. Cause it's going to help your practice run successfully, even through the rough times, the tougher times. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:47) Yeah. Yeah.   I totally agree. I love it. Thank you. So I think this is titled how to communicate your why or your vision to your team. And I think Nikki, the how is one figure out what your vision is, what is what is the reason that you're here, and then just do it and do it frequently. Don't be afraid, especially when you dig into that like more personal emotional why. Even if even if this popped in my head.   I have so many doctors that they're like, well, my why is like to provide generational wealth for my family. Cool. Why? Dig one more past that because the the providing for people who you're not sure can provide for themselves. That is inspiring. Right. So a team might not get on board with like, I want to create a life where my kids never have to work. Like, okay, no, that's weird. But why?   So really attached to that personal. I wanted to say that because I do have a lot of doctors that are like, I'm trying to create generational wealth as you should. I think that's phenomenal. Let's go a little bit deeper and figure out why is that important to you? Maybe you didn't grow up with parents who seem to care. Maybe you had to work really hard and you your team's going to get behind those pieces. So dig one further. Do that five why. What's one deeper and then communicate with your team. It's incredibly vulnerable.   Nikki Mack (25:05) Great.   The Dental A Team (25:24) And it can be very scary, especially when you're like, I wanna create healthy smiles in the neighborhood, in the community. Like going from that to like, I wanna help save people from poverty, drastic, very vulnerable. But Nikki, I think just do it, right? Just Nike, just do it.   Nikki Mack (25:36) Right.   Yeah, just do it.   And honestly, I would challenge doctors and practice owners to find out your team's why. Why are they showing up for you every day, right? It may not be exactly the same as yours, but I guarantee you it aligns, right? And it feeds into it. And that might help even shape your why as well. Like everyone's is gonna contribute to that greater cause basically. Yeah, just do it.   The Dental A Team (25:53) Yeah.   Yeah.   I agree. Simon Sinek   says just do it. Simon Sinek says to ask the ask your best friend or best friends. So like the three people closest to you. Why do they? Why do they have you in their life? And when they say something like, well, I don't know, like, you're fine. Like, no, but like, why me dig deeper? Do that five why thing again? Like, okay, but like, why me? And eventually, it's going to turn from   what you do for them. You always answer the phone when I need you. Like it's gonna turn to you make me feel like I'm important. You make me feel. So it's gonna turn from the things that you do for people, you continue digging, to that friend is gonna say, you know what, I don't know. It's just when I'm around you, I'm really happy and inspired and I want to do more in life. And he says that helps key you in on what you bring to the world.   so that you can see what your purpose is. So I think if you do that similar thing, Nikki, with the team, like why do you choose to work here, right? And get them to dig to that deeper space, it does start to bubble up and you start to see the impact that you're already making on the world and does that align? Does that feel good? Does that feel like inspiring to you? Because that's probably your why and your vision.   Nikki Mack (27:26) Yeah, I love that. That's so great. Even in a personal life, I agree. I'm gonna take that home.   The Dental A Team (27:32) Simon Sinek, I tell you that guy, he's got some good stuff, always. Awesome. Well, Nikki, this was super fun. Thank you so much for being here. First podcast down the hatch, you did it. We're here. Good, good, you did awesome. Thank you. And listeners, you know this is her first, go leave her a five star review.   Nikki Mack (27:35) Always a gem, always a gem. Yeah.   It was so fun. Check. Yeah. Loved it. It was a good time.   The Dental A Team (27:55) But really, let us know what you think. Let us know how this went for you. ⁓ Action items, go dig for your vision, go dig for your why. Ask your team, I love that. Ask your team why they choose to work with you. Ask your friends why they're your friend. And then communicate often. You guys, if you're just communicating this, do it every week for the first quarter and then move on to the next quarter. And if you feel like, gosh, we lost it in between, do it more frequently. This is something that you just need to talk about all the time.   Go do the things. Nikki, thank you so much. ⁓ And podcast listeners, you know, go leave us a five-star review. Let us know how you are going to apply these things to your life. And then reach out to us, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, for any and everything. We're here to help. Thank you, and we'll catch you next time. Bye.

This week on What the Smut Are You Talking About Podcast, we are joined by indie romance author Lasairiona McMaster for an absolutely chaotic, hilarious, and surprisingly emotional conversation about romance books, fake dating, writing feral characters, and why queso should honestly be considered a personality trait.From MM hockey romance and mafia books to rugby romance, emotional damage, and perimenopause-fueled unhinged thoughts, this episode truly has everything.Lasairiona spills all the tea about:Writing emotionally wrecking romance booksFake dating, one night stands, brother's best friend romance, and found familyHer Cedar Rapids Raccoons hockey romance seriesHer rugby romance seriesHer upcoming MM hockey romance Splitting the DWhy tacos, queso, margaritas, and pie deserve their own supporting character creditsIf you love:Romance booksBookish podcastsIndie romance authorsHockey romanceRugby romanceFake datingEnemies to loversFound familyBrother's best friendOne night standsSpicy romance booksEmotional romance with humorUnhinged bookish conversations…then this episode is absolutely for you.Follow Lasairiona on InstagramLasairiona McMaster BooksLasairiona's Website..Apply to be a Guest on our showSign up for our Substack Newsletter..Support Our Show (May Include Affiliate Links)Amazon Product Links (Books, Shows, Products mentioned)Sponsorship or Ad Affiliate InquiriesWell Read Candle Company - WhatTheSmut10 saves you $$Audible Free TrialKindle Unlimited Free Trial..Where to Find UsWe are the most active on InstagramWhatTheSmutPodcastCortneyMarySend us a DM, because we would love to hear from YOU!Send us a voice noteWell Read Candle Co10% Off WHATTHESMUT10 Support the show

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A new type of M&M has hit the You Tried Dat?? tasters' tables as Caramel Pop'd M&Ms faces off against Whims Peanut Butter Cups and Curly Wurly Squirlies.  The crew also discusses a furniture store salesman before finishing up the AHL Mascot Tournament. Follow us on Instagram to see pictures of the snacks @youtrieddat.

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