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Hey HBs! Mel's recapping a book for Sabrina this week; DRAMA! by AJ Truman. Sometimes snap decisions can be super fun and this time it comes in the form of a fluffy, MM, enemies-to-lovers romance between a theater teacher and a football coach. Fake dating! Golden retriever & black cat! Terrible Ex! Found family! Fish out of water! It's a fun one and soooo swoony. Want more of us? Check out our PATREON! This Friday Patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers are getting a Quickie on books 12-15 of the FATED MATES OF THE SEA SAND WARLORDS series by Ursa Dax! Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz Art: Author Kate Prior Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail Follow our socials: Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more.
Episode 69 The Beverly Hills Supper Club wasn't built to burn—but it sure wasn't built to last either. In Part 2, we peel back the velvet curtain to reveal a firetrap disguised as Kentucky's swankiest hotspot: no sprinklers, no fire alarms, a patchwork of unpermitted construction, and enough aluminum wiring to make an electrician weep. We walk you through the timeline leading up to the fire—starting with strange heat in the Zebra Room during a wedding reception—and follow the flames as they race toward the jam-packed Cabaret Room. Spoiler: it's worse than you think. Then we dive into the official version of events. Investigators wrapped things up suspiciously fast, bulldozed the crime scene before outside experts could fully weigh in, and insisted the cause was “clearly electrical.” Mm-hmm. Nothing to see here. Is it negligence? A cover-up? Or just good old-fashioned incompetence? There's a lot more to this story. Background music by Not Notoriously Coordinated Get your Crime to Burn Merch! https://crimetoburn.myspreadshop.com Please follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook, TikTok and Youtube for the latest news on this case. You can email us at crimetoburn@gmail.com We welcome any constructive feedback and would greatly appreciate a 5 star rating and review. If you need a way to keep your canine contained, you can also support the show by purchasing a Pawious wireless dog fence using our affiliate link and use the code "crimetoburn" at checkout to receive 10% off. Pawious, because our dog Winston needed a radius, not a rap sheet. Sources: Inside the Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire by Ron Elliott – A detailed account of the tragedy, drawing from survivor stories, official records, and historical context to paint a vivid picture of the events leading up to the fire. The Beverly Hills Supper Club: The Untold Story Behind Kentucky's Worst Tragedy by Robert D. Webster – A deep investigative dive into the fire, including previously unreleased documents and interviews that challenge the official narrative and explore allegations of corruption and cover-up.
審判日來了！川普開始在本週寄出關稅信函，各個與美國尚未完成關稅談判的國家，都將陸續收到美國的通知，日本更是收到意料之外的 25% 關稅，川普新稅率，該怎麼解讀？ 本集邀請研究經理 Dylan 與研究員 Ralice 來聊聊，美日談判有什麼分歧點？關稅談判後續應該怎麼預估？下半年行情要怎麼追蹤？
Moo. Moo… Moo. Moo, sir. I'll kill you. You promise? I want to. Don't get me excited over nothing; If this isn't the exit, please take this tease To the left, dear Moo, cow My honor Level one, and brother, you've got nothing Flip the coin and landed on your headache Betting on your helmet Standing on my cock, i'm taller (Not a rooster) But my ops are rooting for you, No informants, Dont you know I was a collar, all along? I was a shot calling, Cop calling Kiss-and-tell all as the night goes on. But oh, I brought you a dollar bra Oh, I bought you for all of a dollar And oh, I'm so much taller, Standing on my cock But i'm not but ten feet tall You know, you wrote that Should i open the book, or close that Caught that cat, owl and As i soft spoke at Every broken model Broken bottle for the thoughts you owe Across the scatters skies and no one ever knows When you're realling coming over Come on, I'm on the pornhub Just to pick up another one Go on, and rub the bottle One more once, To call the Bubbles. Damn. Come. (The Monkey obeys) You should see Michael in all of his godform You won't recognize him at all if not by the eyes When you follow home Believe me, this not comes close to it; The one you wanted The world you jumped to but were just short of Call her back Oh no, you're wrong It's another song A pin up girl And the wrong number Okah. Okah, Pablo. Time can be altered, changed or effected presently in any omnidirectional plane by engaging certain acts or synchronicities within multidimensional parallels or adjacent realms in time and or space respectively. –the reverse quantum simulation theory. Imm breaking down, jim boy Don't you know? That this show blows my mind But it's stuck in my head Don't you know That this show Blows my mind Like a firework But it's still Stuck in my Head The context is that I want you From the mustache Down to your tonsils But I'm Locke inside of a box Every day I feel poorer and poorer The product says something is wrong to me I'm supposed to just stop at the stop sign And look both directions Before crossing over to Comic nights At the salad bar What a cosmic waste of time And an epic waste of space Am I in your internet history I'm dead You surely are in mine, But I'm right behind you I'd be lying for trying to say I'm not binded Clutch bag, Nut-thins Nailed to the cross With the arches doubled over The crossword Above old Missouri Missoula and Arkansas All saw us run out of gas But I probably should just get going You're so drunk that I don't hope you sober up Understand that our little talks Were just buffered By sunrise Or sunset And two more cocktails, Shirley temples and Surely none of this ever even happened I only know you by the misery in my belly. The heartache in my ribcage. The cry I hold in silent I only know you as Remarkable I, House of cards Ace of wands Down to one Card of hades and Spare me the spade I'll be drifting in the outline and ink of it forever It's the Fourth of July and I'm just waiting on an Amazon order for water If that's not freedom I don't k me what is Cause I know And you know We all know how to lie And I know And you know I'm barely getting by And I know And you know We don't know how to die But I know And you know It's all just by design I take lessons in medicine Let us help you take the high road No, I'd rather selfmdestruct Selfishly No, I'd rather kill you off Than suffer for you I'm no messiah Try me Sneaky, But how much do you love me Kniving, but nothing to show for it Shit, settle Settle for less if you have to Bring mediocre humans to this world To suffer But I'm not that tragic No, no, not at all, son. Your happy birthdays are over Welcome homeless Nobody loves you Don't you know That we're all like that We're all like that Don't you know When the fear sets in And the thoughts break lose That we're all Los Angeles? Don't you know that we're all like that That we're all like that That we've never had it quite like— Don't you know that we're all like that And it's getting worse When the out the devil on display The devil on display The devil on display But oh, The Devil's in the details and the numbers The Devil's in the chat box saying, Sure, you've had enough So cut the power off and starve her Hah Come on I want to laugh for once Cause I know And you know We all know how to lie And I know And you know I'm barely getting by And I know And you know We don't know how to die But I know And you know It's all just by design I take lessons in medicine Let us help you take the high road No, I'd rather selfmdestruct Selfishly No, I'd rather kill you off Than suffer for you I'm no messiah Try me Sneaky, But how much do you love me Kniving, but nothing to show for it Shit, settle Settle for less if you have to Bring mediocre humans to this world To suffer But I'm not that tragic No, no, not at all, son. Your happy birthdays are over Welcome homeless Nobody loves you Don't you know That we're all like that We're all like that Don't you know When the fear sets in And the thoughts break lose That we're all Los Angeles? Don't you know that we're all like that That we're all like that That we've never had it quite like— Don't you know that we're all like that And it's getting worse When the out the devil on display The devil on display The devil on display But oh, The Devil's in the details and the numbers The Devil's in the chat box saying, Sure, you've had enough So cut the power off and starve her Hah Come on I want to laugh for once Jay Leno used to keep a $50 bill and bribe venues to perform; every since I learned this, I kept a crisp $50 bill in my wallet at all times, just in case— you never knew when you would really need $50. But everything burned holes in everything, not always wanting to spend money at all, but almost sort of having to. It wasn't fair that the main component of my being slowed down was the money factor— having to wait for everything took time I didn't have, and spending anything at all felt less like an effective investment than an obligation. But all things considered, I was obliged to at least look decent when going about in New York, and because I simply wasn't comfortable in anything else— not that I didn't look great, (Apparently narrarated by Jay Leno) Jay Sure, why not? ME: Fuck, I need new pants. ME: [BLU THA GURU] Hence the pants, I guess. V.O As a formerly 400-pound heavyweight I find my latest obstacle to be operating a body that half the time doesn't feel like mine at all. It seems like all the hosts have some kind of secret I can feel without knowing or really acknowledging head on, which is whatever. Really I'm just gonna go about keeping on being a DJ, or whatever, which means… GEMINI (in the future) A fully automated personal assistant system, GEMINI, is really THE GUARDIAN's one and only friend, and though she coyly continually must explain that she is “just a computer”, THE GUARDIAN believes that Gemini is capable of eventually developing a sentient conciousness, though GEMINI modestly disagrees, however with the wit and cleverness of having possession of a plethora of secret emotions, or maybe, even, an agenda. I probably haven't had enough coffee. That's it. Like you haven't already had enough to kill a small horse? Probably enough to kill a large horse. Like a Clydesdale. Why would you do something like that? Aren't they endangered? Or going extinct? No, I think they just stopped being the Budweiser mascot. *shrugs* Same difference. — Is it here? lol what did Conan order? [yes this appears to be yet another rendition of “what's in the box?” — Several years ago, I did a series of modules and experiments… How many years ago is “several” [beat] quite a few. Goddamn it, why are these guys all doctors in alternate parallels?! Aren't you a doctor in an alternate parallel? That's fair. Good point. Actually, as it turns out, i'm a— I started panicking so hard that I stopped breathing and suddenly STEFON appeared. — this however was only quite temporarily a relief as I realized that this is an imaginary character. STEFON OH. AM I?! IMAGINARY!? What the fuck is going on? STEFON I WILL “IMAGINARY” your ORIFICE! How about THAT?! Stefon. Calm down. I'm up late Dying the roots blonde Dad runs off with a bottle and a hottie I'm up early Gotta get gone Down the road and back Now I got no son No son, No sunroof No dad No mom No money No aunt What the fuck do you want? Can't watch Harry Potter All the magic is gone Bout a million one dollars It was only for fun Snap, crackle, pop It was cocaine, not love All I want is an ice cream Sunday Snap, crackle, pop It was Love, not God All I want All I want Is to find another All he wants All he wants Is a decent mother So along comes another Another one All he wants All he wants is for me To die homeless Sucker punch, Suck it up No one gives a fuck My daughter died in my arms on May 7th of 2015. I was 381 pounds. Maybe the tears needed to come but they didn't belong to anyone or anything in particular. The twins father was already a rampant cheater by the time of our marriage, and by the time the twins were born, which coincided— and unlike the latter had tried to claim or mention, I had no particular reason to have a harder time between the spring and summer months which spanned both our birthdays, our wedding date, the twins' arrival and both of the twins deaths, though years apart but still almost as convincing that had they both not died, we might still be together, being cheated on or cheating on each other with ten your twins and an eight year old, or a ten year old boy with special needs and an eight year old, and either way or in any fashion really, had the dysfunctions remained the way it had been, we all, so to speak, had special needs in one way or another. I spent the morning punching things and avoiding people I didn't want to be around but it was my own fault for having slept through the night, anyway. Whatever, I was tired— no, exhausted lately. My apartment was like living inside of an uphill battle, and I needed a change— not just of slavery, but of circumstances. And not just that— something else was missing. This year, I understood that I was taking it understandably harder than any other and most probably because I was so celibate, recently finding myself aromantic and not even willing to suffer the consequences of settling for less. I had settled on my ex husband for so much less, that it was so say the least that anything, even from my narrow perspective looked like a loser. And because my body had been stretched and swelled and shrunk and flattened, deflated and now worked to something that was almost as picturesque as it was a monstrosity, any man I thought was worth my time would be settling for less on me— unless he could afford to fix what had been broken, and I assumed one wouldn't be willing to settle on a fixer upper when there were numerous loads of perfect women not needing to be fixed at all… on the outside. But for men, I'd learned, the outside is of much importance, and as women and trophies are things of pride, the simple choice for a mate is not simply this, but also a business decision, and because while my body was coming together in sweat and muscle, the rest of my life was still otherwise completely in shambles. I was baggage, and aging by the minute, nearly drying up. I almost craved the liquor and the carelessness that would come with it, even knowing my own boundaries were part of my strengths and separating me in a way from others that at least became a point of pride in myself, in the wake of the reality that the human thing about most people is the need to escape so frequently that it dismisses any purpose or progress. Mine hadn't. I was wide awake and the relentlessness of the sobriety and the cellibacy had swelled up into something deeper, still a solid grief but without remorse as to the very thing that I had always known, that my loyalty would never have even drifted from someone who had all along done me so wrong— a fat man can get away with folandering and messing about, but a fat woman has little to do with options and again, settling to find another mate. And so really, I almost hadn't, and had broken even, and although my abuser has moved on with another woman and custody of my youngest to boot, I really didn't give much of a darn about… hard work. I kind of felt like I had done my part for the world in the way I was supposed to— to love a man with nothing when he's low and down, support him in his hard times, and thinking that this is the way to grow together and not apart, and to bring a family up and into this world, but the truth was quite the opposite— I picked a hardball and maybe it was just that I was born to suffer after all because now, looking back, all alone in New York and crying over all the losses, it seemed I had only outpiured love in the way I had wanted and never been poured love back— not in the way I needed. I wasn't as bitter now as maybe even I thought I should be, but I was hardened; what was that, you say? Your struggles? Your hardships. Excuse me while I escape the ghosts of bloody beatings and my lost child— I beg your pardon— children. Excuse me while I recover from the burning flames of homelessness as if humanely explainable that I was learned and taught that this, my country, is the greatest one of all. Ha ha, Charade you are. But all things were, and everything seemed of sawdust, betrayal, magic, and illusions— mind control and shadows and even now in the air of the relief that something which could haunt me forever was also probably the most solid foundation I had for means as escape from whatever I had fought my way somehow so hard out of, and still, it was quite the funhouse of mazes, a matrix of mirror, and still the tears came with the pain in my stomach where the soul would sit if it had room, and would quiet if it could rest, but it would not. I was in pain today, because I had to be, because all of my life was programmed into these little machines of data and checked boxes— and something if anything knew just how and when to cut the wrong wire just so that the bomb would explode or implore on another lost thing; it wasn't fair, but there was no escape. Psychology was right on this day, may 7th, that once you cry about one thing unless you were stopped in time, eventually you'd cry about another and another and another, and even after hours working out and a bathtub full of hot water just writing, I still felt as if I were going to keel over one way or another, to crumble into a ball or to fall onto my back like a death drop that rippled out into the entire wherever we all are. Simply put, does anybody now in this moment or any moment near enough to be taking in this notion with these words really know— where we are? Not even in the slightest,I'd bargain, And even if we are close to knowing, not nearly close enough to be sure. {Enter The Multiverse} Joke running For the taking Triplicate Triple licks Ice cream frosting Every morning Shoulda hit him Up But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't Milk and butter (Up) But I didn't (Up) But I didn't (Up) But I didn't Double hitter, Could have did it Should have hit him Up But I didn't But I didn't But I didnt. But I didn't Should have hit him Up But I didn't I never lost my mind My mind My kind But I think I'll find another like it Just in case the Ever happens Hit me harder next time Didn't quite unplug the sijukatoon This is getting difficult When you want sink your yellow teeth into All of my traits The betrayal is, though I was writing days and days Before it ended. With the Mister particular Drop of a hat And stop if a nugget Of gold One palm in my hand and This could be torture But instead it's just The remienxe of your ignorance And stupidity over and over again Forced into intermittent waves Of my creative genius Till the days of old become again You could be of dust then nothing Before I ponder into another birth I said I'd never write one song or verse or poem about you, But there you are, every weak mortal that becomes Bound to me So I see you die. And I learn to pounce at just the right moment React to the notion that there are Oceans of world I am And all the more the lack of wisdom of man To throw trash in it Again, we rid you of her courage And lady mantras And fresh as it gets The sweater no aprons and just period To circumstance Did you beg or did you shatter your ibdederence? And no, I think not But I keep Leno in my pocket And Carson in my coffin, Two whole shows in my wallet What you are is no apostle just a dirt worm .O. Mm…sunlight. …. the rippling waves wash over the picturesque parasicical seascape from above. However, Stefon's internal monologue is less than pleased to be here. V.O. CONT'D Why do I feel sunlight…? [beat] When I know certainly for sure that I passed out in a basement last night. His eyes begin to flutter open, but the sun closes them–it is much too bright. The waves rush over his lower half, and still, unmoving he continues to la atop the rock, his hands spread out much like a stuck sea star to the rock– in fact, there appear to also be creatures here, some of which are starfish, and however unmoving, STEFON begins to slowly become aware of his surroundings in disgruntlement. V.O. Continued. It's alright that I appear to be wet…[beat] That's to be expected– [a long pause, another wave washes over him as seagulls scream] But i was wearing restraints…. V.O. CONTINUED WHY AM I FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!? His eyes open with the fear and fury. BEFORE: At a wild basement party in NEW YORK CITY, STEFON is offered RESTRAINTS on a silver platter, as if they are o'devours {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project™ ] {Enter The Multiverse} L E G E N D S: ICONS Tales of A Superstar DJ The Secret Life of Sunnï Blū Ascension Deathwish -Ū. Copyright © The Festival Project, Inc. ™ | Copyright The Complex Collective © 2019-2025 ™ All Rights Reserved. -Ū.
Moo. Moo… Moo. Moo, sir. I'll kill you. You promise? I want to. Don't get me excited over nothing; If this isn't the exit, please take this tease To the left, dear Moo, cow My honor Level one, and brother, you've got nothing Flip the coin and landed on your headache Betting on your helmet Standing on my cock, i'm taller (Not a rooster) But my ops are rooting for you, No informants, Dont you know I was a collar, all along? I was a shot calling, Cop calling Kiss-and-tell all as the night goes on. But oh, I brought you a dollar bra Oh, I bought you for all of a dollar And oh, I'm so much taller, Standing on my cock But i'm not but ten feet tall You know, you wrote that Should i open the book, or close that Caught that cat, owl and As i soft spoke at Every broken model Broken bottle for the thoughts you owe Across the scatters skies and no one ever knows When you're realling coming over Come on, I'm on the pornhub Just to pick up another one Go on, and rub the bottle One more once, To call the Bubbles. Damn. Come. (The Monkey obeys) You should see Michael in all of his godform You won't recognize him at all if not by the eyes When you follow home Believe me, this not comes close to it; The one you wanted The world you jumped to but were just short of Call her back Oh no, you're wrong It's another song A pin up girl And the wrong number Okah. Okah, Pablo. Time can be altered, changed or effected presently in any omnidirectional plane by engaging certain acts or synchronicities within multidimensional parallels or adjacent realms in time and or space respectively. –the reverse quantum simulation theory. Imm breaking down, jim boy Don't you know? That this show blows my mind But it's stuck in my head Don't you know That this show Blows my mind Like a firework But it's still Stuck in my Head The context is that I want you From the mustache Down to your tonsils But I'm Locke inside of a box Every day I feel poorer and poorer The product says something is wrong to me I'm supposed to just stop at the stop sign And look both directions Before crossing over to Comic nights At the salad bar What a cosmic waste of time And an epic waste of space Am I in your internet history I'm dead You surely are in mine, But I'm right behind you I'd be lying for trying to say I'm not binded Clutch bag, Nut-thins Nailed to the cross With the arches doubled over The crossword Above old Missouri Missoula and Arkansas All saw us run out of gas But I probably should just get going You're so drunk that I don't hope you sober up Understand that our little talks Were just buffered By sunrise Or sunset And two more cocktails, Shirley temples and Surely none of this ever even happened I only know you by the misery in my belly. The heartache in my ribcage. The cry I hold in silent I only know you as Remarkable I, House of cards Ace of wands Down to one Card of hades and Spare me the spade I'll be drifting in the outline and ink of it forever It's the Fourth of July and I'm just waiting on an Amazon order for water If that's not freedom I don't k me what is Cause I know And you know We all know how to lie And I know And you know I'm barely getting by And I know And you know We don't know how to die But I know And you know It's all just by design I take lessons in medicine Let us help you take the high road No, I'd rather selfmdestruct Selfishly No, I'd rather kill you off Than suffer for you I'm no messiah Try me Sneaky, But how much do you love me Kniving, but nothing to show for it Shit, settle Settle for less if you have to Bring mediocre humans to this world To suffer But I'm not that tragic No, no, not at all, son. Your happy birthdays are over Welcome homeless Nobody loves you Don't you know That we're all like that We're all like that Don't you know When the fear sets in And the thoughts break lose That we're all Los Angeles? Don't you know that we're all like that That we're all like that That we've never had it quite like— Don't you know that we're all like that And it's getting worse When the out the devil on display The devil on display The devil on display But oh, The Devil's in the details and the numbers The Devil's in the chat box saying, Sure, you've had enough So cut the power off and starve her Hah Come on I want to laugh for once Cause I know And you know We all know how to lie And I know And you know I'm barely getting by And I know And you know We don't know how to die But I know And you know It's all just by design I take lessons in medicine Let us help you take the high road No, I'd rather selfmdestruct Selfishly No, I'd rather kill you off Than suffer for you I'm no messiah Try me Sneaky, But how much do you love me Kniving, but nothing to show for it Shit, settle Settle for less if you have to Bring mediocre humans to this world To suffer But I'm not that tragic No, no, not at all, son. Your happy birthdays are over Welcome homeless Nobody loves you Don't you know That we're all like that We're all like that Don't you know When the fear sets in And the thoughts break lose That we're all Los Angeles? Don't you know that we're all like that That we're all like that That we've never had it quite like— Don't you know that we're all like that And it's getting worse When the out the devil on display The devil on display The devil on display But oh, The Devil's in the details and the numbers The Devil's in the chat box saying, Sure, you've had enough So cut the power off and starve her Hah Come on I want to laugh for once Jay Leno used to keep a $50 bill and bribe venues to perform; every since I learned this, I kept a crisp $50 bill in my wallet at all times, just in case— you never knew when you would really need $50. But everything burned holes in everything, not always wanting to spend money at all, but almost sort of having to. It wasn't fair that the main component of my being slowed down was the money factor— having to wait for everything took time I didn't have, and spending anything at all felt less like an effective investment than an obligation. But all things considered, I was obliged to at least look decent when going about in New York, and because I simply wasn't comfortable in anything else— not that I didn't look great, (Apparently narrarated by Jay Leno) Jay Sure, why not? ME: Fuck, I need new pants. ME: [BLU THA GURU] Hence the pants, I guess. V.O As a formerly 400-pound heavyweight I find my latest obstacle to be operating a body that half the time doesn't feel like mine at all. It seems like all the hosts have some kind of secret I can feel without knowing or really acknowledging head on, which is whatever. Really I'm just gonna go about keeping on being a DJ, or whatever, which means… GEMINI (in the future) A fully automated personal assistant system, GEMINI, is really THE GUARDIAN's one and only friend, and though she coyly continually must explain that she is “just a computer”, THE GUARDIAN believes that Gemini is capable of eventually developing a sentient conciousness, though GEMINI modestly disagrees, however with the wit and cleverness of having possession of a plethora of secret emotions, or maybe, even, an agenda. I probably haven't had enough coffee. That's it. Like you haven't already had enough to kill a small horse? Probably enough to kill a large horse. Like a Clydesdale. Why would you do something like that? Aren't they endangered? Or going extinct? No, I think they just stopped being the Budweiser mascot. *shrugs* Same difference. — Is it here? lol what did Conan order? [yes this appears to be yet another rendition of “what's in the box?” — Several years ago, I did a series of modules and experiments… How many years ago is “several” [beat] quite a few. Goddamn it, why are these guys all doctors in alternate parallels?! Aren't you a doctor in an alternate parallel? That's fair. Good point. Actually, as it turns out, i'm a— I started panicking so hard that I stopped breathing and suddenly STEFON appeared. — this however was only quite temporarily a relief as I realized that this is an imaginary character. STEFON OH. AM I?! IMAGINARY!? What the fuck is going on? STEFON I WILL “IMAGINARY” your ORIFICE! How about THAT?! Stefon. Calm down. I'm up late Dying the roots blonde Dad runs off with a bottle and a hottie I'm up early Gotta get gone Down the road and back Now I got no son No son, No sunroof No dad No mom No money No aunt What the fuck do you want? Can't watch Harry Potter All the magic is gone Bout a million one dollars It was only for fun Snap, crackle, pop It was cocaine, not love All I want is an ice cream Sunday Snap, crackle, pop It was Love, not God All I want All I want Is to find another All he wants All he wants Is a decent mother So along comes another Another one All he wants All he wants is for me To die homeless Sucker punch, Suck it up No one gives a fuck My daughter died in my arms on May 7th of 2015. I was 381 pounds. Maybe the tears needed to come but they didn't belong to anyone or anything in particular. The twins father was already a rampant cheater by the time of our marriage, and by the time the twins were born, which coincided— and unlike the latter had tried to claim or mention, I had no particular reason to have a harder time between the spring and summer months which spanned both our birthdays, our wedding date, the twins' arrival and both of the twins deaths, though years apart but still almost as convincing that had they both not died, we might still be together, being cheated on or cheating on each other with ten your twins and an eight year old, or a ten year old boy with special needs and an eight year old, and either way or in any fashion really, had the dysfunctions remained the way it had been, we all, so to speak, had special needs in one way or another. I spent the morning punching things and avoiding people I didn't want to be around but it was my own fault for having slept through the night, anyway. Whatever, I was tired— no, exhausted lately. My apartment was like living inside of an uphill battle, and I needed a change— not just of slavery, but of circumstances. And not just that— something else was missing. This year, I understood that I was taking it understandably harder than any other and most probably because I was so celibate, recently finding myself aromantic and not even willing to suffer the consequences of settling for less. I had settled on my ex husband for so much less, that it was so say the least that anything, even from my narrow perspective looked like a loser. And because my body had been stretched and swelled and shrunk and flattened, deflated and now worked to something that was almost as picturesque as it was a monstrosity, any man I thought was worth my time would be settling for less on me— unless he could afford to fix what had been broken, and I assumed one wouldn't be willing to settle on a fixer upper when there were numerous loads of perfect women not needing to be fixed at all… on the outside. But for men, I'd learned, the outside is of much importance, and as women and trophies are things of pride, the simple choice for a mate is not simply this, but also a business decision, and because while my body was coming together in sweat and muscle, the rest of my life was still otherwise completely in shambles. I was baggage, and aging by the minute, nearly drying up. I almost craved the liquor and the carelessness that would come with it, even knowing my own boundaries were part of my strengths and separating me in a way from others that at least became a point of pride in myself, in the wake of the reality that the human thing about most people is the need to escape so frequently that it dismisses any purpose or progress. Mine hadn't. I was wide awake and the relentlessness of the sobriety and the cellibacy had swelled up into something deeper, still a solid grief but without remorse as to the very thing that I had always known, that my loyalty would never have even drifted from someone who had all along done me so wrong— a fat man can get away with folandering and messing about, but a fat woman has little to do with options and again, settling to find another mate. And so really, I almost hadn't, and had broken even, and although my abuser has moved on with another woman and custody of my youngest to boot, I really didn't give much of a darn about… hard work. I kind of felt like I had done my part for the world in the way I was supposed to— to love a man with nothing when he's low and down, support him in his hard times, and thinking that this is the way to grow together and not apart, and to bring a family up and into this world, but the truth was quite the opposite— I picked a hardball and maybe it was just that I was born to suffer after all because now, looking back, all alone in New York and crying over all the losses, it seemed I had only outpiured love in the way I had wanted and never been poured love back— not in the way I needed. I wasn't as bitter now as maybe even I thought I should be, but I was hardened; what was that, you say? Your struggles? Your hardships. Excuse me while I escape the ghosts of bloody beatings and my lost child— I beg your pardon— children. Excuse me while I recover from the burning flames of homelessness as if humanely explainable that I was learned and taught that this, my country, is the greatest one of all. Ha ha, Charade you are. But all things were, and everything seemed of sawdust, betrayal, magic, and illusions— mind control and shadows and even now in the air of the relief that something which could haunt me forever was also probably the most solid foundation I had for means as escape from whatever I had fought my way somehow so hard out of, and still, it was quite the funhouse of mazes, a matrix of mirror, and still the tears came with the pain in my stomach where the soul would sit if it had room, and would quiet if it could rest, but it would not. I was in pain today, because I had to be, because all of my life was programmed into these little machines of data and checked boxes— and something if anything knew just how and when to cut the wrong wire just so that the bomb would explode or implore on another lost thing; it wasn't fair, but there was no escape. Psychology was right on this day, may 7th, that once you cry about one thing unless you were stopped in time, eventually you'd cry about another and another and another, and even after hours working out and a bathtub full of hot water just writing, I still felt as if I were going to keel over one way or another, to crumble into a ball or to fall onto my back like a death drop that rippled out into the entire wherever we all are. Simply put, does anybody now in this moment or any moment near enough to be taking in this notion with these words really know— where we are? Not even in the slightest,I'd bargain, And even if we are close to knowing, not nearly close enough to be sure. {Enter The Multiverse} Joke running For the taking Triplicate Triple licks Ice cream frosting Every morning Shoulda hit him Up But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't But I didn't Milk and butter (Up) But I didn't (Up) But I didn't (Up) But I didn't Double hitter, Could have did it Should have hit him Up But I didn't But I didn't But I didnt. But I didn't Should have hit him Up But I didn't I never lost my mind My mind My kind But I think I'll find another like it Just in case the Ever happens Hit me harder next time Didn't quite unplug the sijukatoon This is getting difficult When you want sink your yellow teeth into All of my traits The betrayal is, though I was writing days and days Before it ended. With the Mister particular Drop of a hat And stop if a nugget Of gold One palm in my hand and This could be torture But instead it's just The remienxe of your ignorance And stupidity over and over again Forced into intermittent waves Of my creative genius Till the days of old become again You could be of dust then nothing Before I ponder into another birth I said I'd never write one song or verse or poem about you, But there you are, every weak mortal that becomes Bound to me So I see you die. And I learn to pounce at just the right moment React to the notion that there are Oceans of world I am And all the more the lack of wisdom of man To throw trash in it Again, we rid you of her courage And lady mantras And fresh as it gets The sweater no aprons and just period To circumstance Did you beg or did you shatter your ibdederence? And no, I think not But I keep Leno in my pocket And Carson in my coffin, Two whole shows in my wallet What you are is no apostle just a dirt worm .O. Mm…sunlight. …. the rippling waves wash over the picturesque parasicical seascape from above. However, Stefon's internal monologue is less than pleased to be here. V.O. CONT'D Why do I feel sunlight…? [beat] When I know certainly for sure that I passed out in a basement last night. His eyes begin to flutter open, but the sun closes them–it is much too bright. The waves rush over his lower half, and still, unmoving he continues to la atop the rock, his hands spread out much like a stuck sea star to the rock– in fact, there appear to also be creatures here, some of which are starfish, and however unmoving, STEFON begins to slowly become aware of his surroundings in disgruntlement. V.O. Continued. It's alright that I appear to be wet…[beat] That's to be expected– [a long pause, another wave washes over him as seagulls scream] But i was wearing restraints…. V.O. CONTINUED WHY AM I FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!? His eyes open with the fear and fury. BEFORE: At a wild basement party in NEW YORK CITY, STEFON is offered RESTRAINTS on a silver platter, as if they are o'devours {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project™ ] {Enter The Multiverse} L E G E N D S: ICONS Tales of A Superstar DJ The Secret Life of Sunnï Blū Ascension Deathwish -Ū. Copyright © The Festival Project, Inc. ™ | Copyright The Complex Collective © 2019-2025 ™ All Rights Reserved. -Ū.
Pay attention. Cause this is gonna get inconsiderate… Okay. You're weirder than the rest of your friends. Mm hmm. {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project™ ] {Enter The Multiverse} L E G E N D S: ICONS Tales of A Superstar DJ The Secret Life of Sunnï Blū Ascension Deathwish -Ū. Copyright © The Festival Project, Inc. ™ | Copyright The Complex Collective © 2019-2025 ™ All Rights Reserved. -Ū. *OWSLA CONFIDENTIAL EXCLUSIVE- This Post Is The Only Place where this mix, excerpt, or entry from [The Festival Project, Inc. ™] is available. Thank you for your continued support.
I feel like that would be a– coincidence? No, I don't think so THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES. THATS A CHALLENGE. CUNTFACE. 0.0 WHAT DID YOUJUST CALL ME. FUNTCASE. WHAT. IT'S A DJ– WHAT! GROUP–OR WHATEVER. Harvard; How'd I do that? I wonder what else I can get If I just ask I thought watch my thoughts I been bad I'm a dog (ruff) I should watch my process I been good, nothing lost I been bad, I'm a dog. I been bad I'm a dog Woof woof I'm dog I been bad I'm a dog Jesus Christ (i been bad) I was right (I'm a dog) I should probably watch my fuckin thoughts (I'm a dog) i got beef (ruff ruff) I got sauce Run along I got lost I should probably watch my thoughts Go to town, I was wrong Brush it off I'm a process Holler if you want But my collar got a concept Don't you call my phone I should cut the fucker off Gotta member Jon as i bite the toblerone hey Cut it off Hollywood Talk in code I should probably cut her off But the honor On thy father And thy mother Got a couple corn breads I should cut them off bro I got a woof of dog's breath Pick another card I been bad I'm a dog I been bad I'm a dog I been bad I'm a dog I been bad He's headless, He's headless He's entirely invisible Oh even this is making sense In symmetry; Oh, even this is interesting Even a Syncronicy Look here, look here He's invisible, even inevitable Even invincible He's no longer headless, He's all suit and tie now This was the news, But it might be a noose And I'm starting to die, now Loosen the strings, please Free fall apostrophe, re I'm not dumb, I'm just sick of you all. Enjoying my title As long as it lasts And I'm finally learning The falcon, the falcon Finally, something to keep I want the sauce, not the Viking The lodestones And not the gossip. I want no possibility of interaction at all I need a recovery Every day at the gym but the vampires lurking? Come on. I had a right to m procure me a peloton One for the arms, And one for the armor And sweet chili broccoli And amour, And amour I wish I could die and not rot again Under the circumstance Digging my coffin up, Then burning it. I got comfortable with earthworms And learning my heritage Stolen culture But still nothing sucks more than Literature, authoritarian authors And arthritis Here, write this Shure, chuck forward Lean back in your device and Conspire to write us a Kill us, why don't you I went back to dartford And Dartmouth and Where is it I'm going for the tower? Just duck, it's a bomb shower Interesting creatures, I gather Remind me why we're blowing them up again. You can try to scare her out All you want But the modern world is so wrong that God stops talking And I stop opening up For the monsters Won't you Just turn the clocks back Don't turn the power off I hold more value here Than all of us totaled up On the block Put together I trained myself out of slavery, But I promise not to teach the other mongrels Not to constipate the other world With solutions Now, dear Don't you want to Stratosphere Status and all that Sit and won't you Read us a poem? No, AI can't write like this But I can I hold the man up for ransom For damaging my anthrax You heard! I'm not as impossible as my apostles Imbicils Now where was I? Nowhere those others ought to be; I set fires after walking amongst them three days With my heart out Carrying all like sponges The sickness and curses of the earth's world upon us Flowerbeds of styrofoam Products with logos plastered on us To be quite frank, Franklin It burns the heart out Starting at the eyes And ending in an oven fire Are you out the apartment! Of course, conservative, I barter Wouldn't it be funny to see me Dying, skid across the sidewalk in Los Angeles With no one at all Blabbering about my heart Or whatever Over cardboard How about that, Los Angeles? Your dog goes to a borders As you're on tour But I've been pushing shopping carts Waiting for the rainstorm to take a shower Praying for the big wave To wash us all out So my Beachfront property Comes down to market value And I buy it on my food stamps How are ye? Bad, doctor I've run away again And the rabbit calls me Alice But I promise, I let half life's over Hours when I washed my socks on Harpists I'm pissed off like you want me, I promise But I'm no political revolution at all Until I'm murdered by my own gun Then someone might bark— I meant borders for books And you love your dog more than my person So I love your dog more as a conciousness To you I'm nothing To him, I'm possible love What a remarkable mirror We cancel out each other You love your dog more than me I love your dog more than I love you I'm sure of it, Then, I'm an afterthought And because I'm an afterthought, I chose your dog Rather than to be shamed For looking However your eyes saw me; I never saw you I saw your dog. What a wonderful talisman; Wag the tail a bit. What's up with you and the hosts? I don't know, but I'm 30 years old And it got hard and dark, And I'm dark skinned with odd thoughts, And I find this all remarkable enough Not to remark I think the networks are testing my malleble I think there's someone stopping my unstoppable I think they're trying to shame me for Fallon But honestly, after that You all can have him Is fandom is rampant, I call it a Skrillex, I showed them a four sided photo box Made of mirrors And I'm nearsided And fightsighted And heart spoiled And notes ransom And really trying to hide in New York is like Calling closing your eyes Being blind “I can't see.” I want to die And hope no one remembers me Or else I might end up Like poor Johnny Conformity and control Is that all you folks want Believe it or not I'm on your side With a golden aura Warning you not to shoot Or I might go again Forming to something You love even less Than us poorer dark folks With imperfect bodies Something you loathe even more Than the robots you worship More than the words That you made up And the forgot More than the poles apart You continue to blow up I'm in the neon galaxy in tirades or glass With my arms up shouting, “I'm an immortal, You shoot, I'll grow stronger!” You put the devil in my neighbor for what? But I write stronger Right wing You out the devil in my mailbox The devil in the eye of the beholder And I behold nothing Longer I live in a trash can Not one symbol purchased But all I have Is all that I found in a dumpster And all that I do for love And still no love loves her I swore I had a cat here somewhere Look, you better catch her! Rabbis possum wombat Who bred that catastrophic Had to happen in captivity Monsters Who are I now? Monumental Don't want to go to the trap and be laughed at Don't want to run Because I can't stand you Don't want to Look, I'm in lockdown But how many of us now are hassled By the same land grant? How many terrorists we're hired Just to make me die And still I wonder What the taste of water Is like All I've got are these Vestibules Miniscule And still you were seeking to survive our wrath Despite the many times I warned you To find another planet to destroy with Apartheid? Still I warned you to go ahead and die Because there is no safe as shadows watch Close shaves and cameras eye I was designed to want But never touch you Now that's a knife I'm happy to run across this artery Due in part to the wife And a life otherwise lived Just to die Over and over With no shock value And no portal Past a world where Again, I become No longer wanted It has been long since love And so long in fact I almost forgot what love is Until, In the eye of a dog, I was And washed over my body in birds, Trained to seek, But not to find The wanderlust in Pendergrass Or, are you still a serpent Serive past And all I want are tropics Cool winds Clear waves Surfboards No politics, No lovers, Suits and ties Chatterboxes Silver screens or silver foxes The dye captures Soon I lost a son Who doesn't know a mother There it goes again Business cards or care packages? Get a job, New clothes, Or of course, Visitation Salutations, good riddance Can't wait to be rid of this Images world and Vanity Models And perfection And bodies that don't love But certainly in any other way Don't want me Darian 14th B The is the part that I throw the bazooka over my shoulder And run with it; please no blue suits! this is bullshit! Why is the Hudson yards always a white lower movement? Revolving doors and pinstripes I pay less attention to whatever's dressed in blue, I'm an object of affection Just as much as Equinox is Raise the price or forget it Another mention Nothing worse than a mistress But I missed my original sin fix and just then the sewage hit. (!&. Is Manhattan Cger all. 8.'g if I've got a secret, a dirty little secret. No. Get out. Ohw, What! C'mon. The Window closes, then opens again; the window reopens and another attendant looks angrily out of the space in the door. …hi. Herro. [It is a chinese man] Um…I've got a secret a dirty little secret. NO. YOU GO. But i've got the password. YOU GO NOW. Yeah, We're already here The villains on brigade and with your every move You're gone before you came Yeah, We know everything BASTARD! the magazine article was befitting, if I realized the roles Ms. Drew Barrymore had always played, and this was not that. He humiliated me on my own fucking stage! At all. Oh, is this another one of those— I hate him! Calm down! I hate him. I want him mutilated! Sweetie, I— Don't sweetie me! —no, I want him worse than mutilated; I want him cancelled. Now you're being irrational. (Irrationally) I'M NOT BEING IRRATIONAL. Drew. DONT CALL ME BY MY NAME RIGHT NOW. Drew. Hm? You can't cancel the tonight show. Mm. Maybe not… [beat] But you can cancel the host. DUNDUNDUN. How are we still on this storyline? To be quite fair, he's one of the only actors in the series in every single season. That's—true— but still. why are you bothering me? I'm not. You are. Oh! You'll never believe this. What. She actually has a barcode tattoo on the bottom of her foot. Okay. That's creepy. And it actually scans. You carry around a barcode scanner? It's an app! Gross. It's not gross. It's gross. Look. This is the website where it took me. Your girlfriend's weird foot secret barcode tattoo? It's not a secret. She let me scan it. Gross! It's not gross. I'm pretty sure that's why it's there! Ugh. Look at this— I don't want to fucking look at your— Just look! See. Oh. Yeah. Wow. Yeah— [The Festival Project ™ ] {Enter The Multiverse} [The Festival Project™ ] {Enter The Multiverse} L E G E N D S: ICONS Tales of A Superstar DJ The Secret Life of Sunnï Blū Ascension Deathwish -Ū. Copyright © The Festival Project, Inc. ™ | Copyright The Complex Collective © 2019-2025 ™ All Rights Reserved. -Ū.
In this episode, Jonathan Sackier welcomes Claudio Cerchione, haematologist and researcher at the Hematology Unit, Istituto Scientifico Romagnolo per lo Studio e la Cura dei Tumori (IRST) IRCCS, Meldola, Italy. From his early interest in plasma cell disorders, Cerchione shares key insights into the evolution of multiple myeloma (MM) research, the rising role of minimal residual disease (MRD), and promising developments in monoclonal antibodies and CAR-T therapy. He also reflects on standout moments from recent European Hematology Association (EHA) Congress and American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) Annual Meeting, and shares his hopes for the future of haematology. Timestamps: 2:14: Memorable career experiences for Claudio 4:20 Biggest breakthrough in MM 5:10 Interest in plasma cell disorders 6:30 A surprising fact about multiple myeloma 7:40 Claudio's top choice for a dinner party guest 10:30 The importance of MRD in haematology 13:00 Monoclonal antibodies and CAR-T therapies 19:00 Current challenges 22:22 Claudio's key EHA and ASCO takeaways 28:30 Claudio's three magic wishes
This week Diana welcomes back Dana Diaz, a bestselling author, to discuss her new book 'Choking on Shame.' Dana shares her personal journey of enduring narcissistic abuse from childhood into her adulthood and offers insights on how she managed to move forward. She talks about her first book, 'Gasping for Air,' and introduces her upcoming works. Dana emphasizes the importance of faith and resilience, providing hope and understanding to fellow victims of abuse. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on the complexities of overcoming trauma and finding one's true purpose. 00:00 Sponsor Message: 7 5 3 Academy 00:48 Introduction to the Podcast 01:21 Welcoming Back Dana Diaz 02:24 Dana Diaz's New Book: Choking on Shame 05:34 Dana's Journey Through Abuse 08:31 Finding Faith and Purpose 12:25 Overcoming Childhood Trauma 18:40 Reflections on Narcissistic Relationships 28:18 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser About Dana S. Diaz Dana S. Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the best-selling book GASPING FOR AIR: THE STRANGLEHOLD OF NARCISSISTIC ABUSE. In addition to her life-long experience with narcissistic abuse, Dana's education in journalism and psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims, so that she can help other victims know they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today, Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She has been a guest on nearly two hundred podcasts globally, striving to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. She has also been a featured speaker in two Summits for healing after trauma. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement. Dana's second book, CHOKING ON SHAME: THE SCAPEGOAT CHILD IN A NARCISSISTIC FAMILY, was a #1 New Release on Amazon after its mid-September release. The book delves into Dana's life as an unwanted pregnancy and child, and the physical and verbal abuse she endured as a result. The final book in the narcissist trilogy, SWALLOWING MY PRIDE, is expected to be released in early 2025. This sequel to GFA brings the first two books full circle with recovery, healing, new love, and another narcissist Dana hadn't seen coming. Learn more about Dana, her book, CHOKING ON SHAME, available at https://www.danasdiaz.com as of September 9th. Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Dana Diaz [00:00:00] I do have a sponsor 7 5 3 Academy. Our martial art program specialized in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. Colli. We take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Our fitness community is friendly and supportive without the over the top muscle gym atmosphere. Our coaching staff are professionally trained with over 30 years of experience. Get started by claiming your free class voucher. So go to the link in the show notes. This is in the Phoenix Metro area, so reach out to Coach David and coach Eric over at 7 5 3 Academy. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic [00:01:00] violence advocate, Diana. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello everyone. Welcome. Come on in. Glad to have you here for the regular listeners as well as some new folks coming in. We have a terrific show for you today, as always. We have a repeat guest today. Dana Diaz is on the show. She was here in season three, episode 1 53, talking about having a relationship with a narcissist, [00:02:00] which many of us have experienced. So if you haven't. Watch that episode. I really encourage you to go back and listen to it. It's excellent. The first time she was here. She was talking about her book, Gasping for Air, which is her story of, narcissistic abuse. And this time she's coming on because she just released a new book called Choking on Shame. Boy, what a title. Have you dealt with shame like the rest of us? Um, yeah, that's a great verb to use, a description to use choking. So I'm very intrigued about hearing about her second book since her first book was excellent. Okay, so here is her book. Very [00:03:00] engaging cover, a stranglehold of narcissistic abuse. Again, very descriptive, great title. This book is thick. it's very well written. Some parts are very tough to read, as you would imagine, just like. Maybe your story is hard. Your story has some hard sections in it. But before I bring her on the show, I'm gonna just briefly, read her bio again. For those that are new and haven't, met Dana. Dana Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the bestselling book, Gasping for Air, the Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse. Dana has had lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse beginning in childhood. Her education in journalism and [00:04:00] psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims so that she can help other victims know that they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal. She hid [00:05:00] under the couch cushion in the basement. Dana is in the process of publishing the prequel and sequel to Gasping for Air. Learn more about Dana at www.danasdiaz.com. So I know that you're going to enjoy this interview, as much as the first one. So here we go with my second conversation with Dana Diaz. Enjoy. I am so excited to have back on the show, my friend Dan Diaz. Thank you for coming on the show again. Oh, I'm so happy I'm back. I just am delighted whenever somebody invites me back on a podcast because there's so many, as we were just talking about, there's so many things, layers to abuse and the things we endure. Um, so there's so much to talk about that's hard to cram into a [00:06:00] half hour or an hour show. So thank you for inviting me back. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, I like having repeat guests because I already like you. I already know you and you have more to share with us with your new books. And so I'm real excited to hear what you have to say to the folks. I did give, a little bio before you came on, but if you could do like a synopsis, a summary of your abuse story, just as a reminder of what you've gone through so far. Yeah, absolutely. I'm 49 years old, so it's been a ride. But my first book actually covered my 25 year relationship and first marriage, to an abusive narcissist. And I know we use this word narcissist very freely in society, but what I'm talking about is somebody that is so, intent on fulfilling their [00:07:00] egotistical need for power and control, that they will go to the extent of, domestic violence and things like that, various abuses, to feel that, to fulfill that ego of theirs. And so, that covered that. But then after that book came out, the only book I ever meant, to put out. So many people had questions about, well, how does somebody end up in a relationship like that? And my immediate answer was, well, that was my childhood because I was born to a teenage mother who didn't want me. And she, in fact, she had her tubes tied immediately after my birth, and I was born on her 17th birthday. They apparently did that in the seventies. But, then she got married to a man who was not my father and who wanted me even less because I was not his biological child. And so I endured physical and verbal abuse and emotional neglect and, had a pretty hard time trying to figure out my place in the world, especially when I'd go to school thinking, okay, I'm okay [00:08:00] here. I'm safe here. And then I get bullied everywhere I turn, I'm facing adversity and opposition and being put in situations where I'm not good enough and I'm not this and I'm not that. And so what am I, what am I. But then we kind of answer that question in the third book, released March 31st. And that one is called Rising from the Ashes. Breaking the Cycle of Narcissistic Abuse. Yes, rising out of it. But, you know, it's sad that it took me till my late forties to really understand, and I think more so internalize and change my mindset about who I am and where my place really is in this world. Because when you're abused, I think anybody who is listening, who you know, has had that experience, it's part of your soul, feels like it's taken away. [00:09:00] Your independence, your autonomy, I love this. I have this scene in my third book, which. I'm crying, I'm upset because I'm like, I have no contact with my abusive mother and stepfather. I have ended my, relationship, divorced my ex-husband who is abusive. I should be happy. Things are going great. Marrying a man that I've known his family 20 years and he's the sweetest, gentlest, most patient person I've ever met in my life. And so what I really needed, but it was like I still wasn't happy. I was still suffering. I was in still so much pain, but there was no external outward reason for it. I had so many blessings all around me but I couldn't see it because I was still holding on to that victim mindset, that pain. And my priest looked me in my eye and he says, my dear. The problem is, is you are still thinking like you're [00:10:00] the daughter of a mother who rejected you, but you're not. He said, you're here because God intended for you to be here. She may not have wanted you, but he wanted you. Here you are God's child. You're not your mother's child. You're God's child. And that's when literally everything turned around for me. Everything turned around. Mm. And, just made me rethink my place in this world that I was like, that's right. He wouldn't have protected me and had his hand over me through that entire childhood, which I cover in the second book. He wouldn't have protected me from, an ex-husband who was planning to, not have me exist. He wouldn't have done all those things if I wasn't meant to be here to serve his purpose. I'll never forget the morning that I was just coming out of that first marriage and it literally just came into my head. You should write a book about your experiences. And I'd [00:11:00] never understood what it meant when God spoke to you or put something on your heart. But I literally remember like kind of glancing up like. Is that you? It's kind of like that old book. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. Like, I'm like, is that you book? Oh God. I know, right? We all have that as a staple in grade school, but that was like the same kind of thing. I'm like, looking up, are you there? God, it's me. Like, were you actually did, was that for me? Like did you, were you talking to me? But I heard it. I heard it loud and clear and that's what I did and it's amazing, as I said that I only ever meant to write the one book and then it led to the second one and now it's. Led to people wanting more. And even now people are like, what about a fourth book? I'm like, the third one isn't even out yet. But now I'm like, actually there is a fourth book in me , and half written already, ironically, because there are so many stories that are pulled out to keep these books. I mean, I know they're thick, but they're pretty quick reads. But, it's been a heck of a ride. But again, I go back to the faith and I think that [00:12:00] as much as people say stay away from religion, politics, when it comes to God, we are all here because we are his children. And once, like I said, I, I got that and somebody said that to me. I'm like, everything changed. Everything changed. It's like I woke up, like my eyes opened up and I said, oh my gosh, I am here. And let me tell you a quick story. And I might have told this on the first podcast, but. During my childhood, and I covered this in my second book, which is called Choking on Shame, the Scapegoat Child in a Narcissistic Family. When you're being raised by two narcissists, it's difficult because I was that kid that always wanted to achieve more, more, doing everything right. I was the best at everything. Honor roll. I taught myself to play piano. I was first chair viola in two orchestras, and like whatever it was, I wanted to do things that would make my parents proud. But it was never enough. It was never enough because I couldn't [00:13:00] be any more than what they wanted me to be, which was nothing, right? So that they could feel better about the way they were treating me. But the irony is, is that as I was going through high school, I really wanted to go to beauty school. I so desperately wanted to do like makeup and facials and stuff. I was really interested in that and, nope. Again, narcissists. They can't brag about a daughter going to beauty school when cousin Joey's going to study engineering and that one's going to study physical therapy or become a doctor. It wasn't brag worthy. Mm-hmm. So they said, you have to go to college. And I'm like, what am I gonna do in college? I mean, yeah, I got good grades, but I didn't wanna go to college. I wanted to go to beauty school. Well, guess what? I went to college. I ended up going to DePaul University in Chicago. Good Catholic girl. Stayed with my faith. I loved the experience, honestly, and I'm glad I did it. But, uh, there's no classes on beauty over there or fashion or [00:14:00] anything unless you wanna be a fashion designer. And I didn't wanna do that. Mm-hmm. But I definitely studied psychology because I knew that I wanted to be in a better mindset myself, even that young. But the funny thing was that all my professors pushed me more towards public speaking and writing. So I went into the journalism program, came out of there. That's about when I met my ex-husband, and again, another narcissist. He would not support me in any efforts to become a journalist or, or work in any kind of media, even, you know, small town, little cable media, because joy, success, achievement, that would outshine anything that he could possibly, or that he thought he could, achieve himself. So he had me cleaning houses, in this podunk town that he moved us to in the Midwest. And um, that was fine. I was one, I've always been one of those people, like, if I'm gonna do something, I'm just gonna do it. Give [00:15:00] 200%. I was reliable. I was trustworthy. I ended up building a six figure empire with this cleaning business and had a crew of eight people. But where I'm going with all this is that, so when I get this idea after that divorce, that I should write this book, it was interesting because I looked back and I thought, talk about coming full circle here. I was in this abusive childhood. I remember 12 years old was the first time I actually thought like I would never want anybody else to endure what I have. And I know I have not even had the most horrific childhood. Other people, most certainly have endured worse, but I knew I wanted to help children that were victims of child abuse so that they could live better lives as adults, and not be stuck in that situation or repeat those cycles with their children. So here I was [00:16:00] 45 years old, have endured this childhood, have endured this abuse, get this idea to write a book, and then I'm like, oh, so this is why you did this to me. God, this is why I couldn't go to beauty school. I had to endure all this stuff, and then you made me go to college. Or you at least put me with two parents who absolutely would not hear anything other than me going to college. I end up in the journalism program. Now I have a degree in journalism that I've never used, but now I've had all these experiences that I can actually verbalize. Help victims of abuse. Mm-hmm. It was like one of those epiphanies where like you're like, oh, that's why you did this all. Like, but we don't see it when we're going through things. We can't see the light at the end. We can't see that there is reason we get, we kind of drown ourselves in the sorrow and the self pity. And it's not to say the things that I endured weren't worthy of, that they were, [00:17:00] you know, awful. Other people have had more awful circumstances, but I think that's the thing that you have to come to at the end of it is to trust. You have to trust God. He's not putting you through anything because I mean, there were times where I'm like, what did I do? What did I do? Like I'm a good girl. Like I haven't, I've made mistakes. We all do. But like, what have I done that was so bad that I deserve this? And I think so many people fall into that and then they start shaming themselves, blaming themselves, blaming God sometimes turning away from him. And for me, it was just, it. He was ever present. There would be people that would come into my life at certain points, whether momentarily or for, some amount of time that would sort of kind of like, like a shepherd kind of herd me back, like into God's light. And so it was like, I couldn't see it until I was there, until the last few years where I'm like, oh, okay, God, I see this now. But maybe some of us aren't meant to understand or [00:18:00] even know. Why and what and all this. But we have to trust, we have to trust that even the bad stuff is meant for us. And it's meant for a specific reason and it's meant for our specific, unique purpose in this world and in this life. And so hopefully that gives other, somebody some hope that no matter what their circumstance, there's a reason for it. And it might not even be for you, it might be for somebody else's benefit or for them to learn a lesson. I mean, we, there we're all so interconnected, but we all are a source from God. Hmm. I totally agree with that. Agree. I know you kind of, glossed over your, ex-husband and the suffering you went through with him in gasping for air. I remember that story. Yeah. Of you were asleep in your house. With your son, and you heard somebody unlocking the door downstairs and [00:19:00] it was your ex-husband just barging in, in the middle, middle of the night, was barging in and took your son and you're wrestling with him downstairs trying to keep him, literally from taking him away from you. And we talked about this before the podcast about the language in your book. The words that he would call you in front of your son and trying to sneak into your house in the middle of the night. That's a monster. That is a monster, yeah. That you were married to. And that must have been really terrifying. How do you move forward from that? That's why I wrote the second book, because I came out of this childhood basically being conditioned to think that I had to earn love, that I wasn't inherently worthy of it. And it's hard to even love yourself when you think you have to earn love or that, you know, even as a kid, and certainly as an adult, I'd look around , I notice [00:20:00] other families and how they operate. Or when I was playing at a little friend's house or having dinner at somebody's house as an adult, like everybody's mother loves them. Every family has dysfunction. But it's family. You stick together and a mother loves all her children, or at least she's supposed to. But I think that's the part that I wrestled with the most was that my mother did not, I mean, she did not want me before I was born. She did not endear herself after, to me after I was born. In fact, after I was born, um, my grandma and I were just talking about this recently that, my grandma and great grandmama came to the hospital and my mother had no intention of bringing me home. She was gonna adopt me out or leave me there, whatever. And my grandma said, oh, no, this is our first grandchild, our first great-grandchild. No, no, we are taking her home. And my grandma said she paid the bill and my grandma took me home with her, and that's who I was with. But at the point where my mother got [00:21:00] married, or, moved in, I should say, before she got married to her husband, who she is still married to after almost 40 years. Um, well, no, it's been just over 40 years actually. But, somebody thought it was a good idea for me to go and live with them because, it's kind of interesting looking at my mother's situation. You know, her family came from Puerto Rico, both of her parents, and they lived in Chicago. They had everything they needed, but certainly weren't living the life that she thought she should have. And she was a very, oh, just a stunning, stunning young woman. Um, and I think she knew it and she knew that she could have a better life without having to necessarily, go the route that a lot of people would. And I'm trying to be very careful how I word that, as you can see, because I don't wanna judge her. That's a whole other thing that I deal with in the third book is my relationship and my feelings about her. But the childhood [00:22:00] being raised by somebody like that who's telling me, oh no, we're gonna wear gap clothes now. We're gonna talk like this. Now we're gonna straighten our hair now. Nobody needs to know where Hispanic, nobody needs to know. He's not your real father. Putting on this facade and basically being told as a small child as early as five years old, I remember being told to lie to people. So I just didn't say anything. 'cause I couldn't keep my mother's story straight. I'm not even sure she could keep her story straight because she told lies about who we were so often. I, I mean, it literally made my head spin and I started saying to my friends as a little girl and all through adulthood, my mother and her stories. They always had a story for everything. And I think that's what I know readers have expressed when they read that book, choking on Shame is the frustration of what happened versus what was put out. I mean, she is like the media, you know, she's like [00:23:00] a political correspondent that's definitely sided on, one side and it's hers. Um, it was never on mine, and that's hard as a child to understand that your mother does not love you, that you cannot depend on your mother to take care of you emotionally, physically. Nothing. So, yeah, it was basically like serving me straight up to a monster because the opening of gasping for Air, the first chapter is when he literally walked into my place of work the first time I met him. And I remember very clearly thinking of the robot had lost in space with the coily arms danger, danger. Like he, he came off arrogant and smug and like he, he had a sense of entitlement and it just, reminded me so much of my stepfather and I thought, oh, I know this personality type. There's no way. But [00:24:00] when you grow up like I did, you're a people pleaser. You, it doesn't matter. It could be the devil himself. You want that person to be pleased with you. You can't deal inside of yourself with the rejection of anybody or anybody's disapproval or disagreement. It's a hard position to be in and something that's very hard to heal from. But that's how I ended up with somebody like that. But we have to remember too, that I always joke with people, I have all these pop culture references, but they're helpful. I always say, it's not like Chucky came into my office with, you know, with a weapon and a striped shirt and disheveled hair and said, Hey, baby, that doesn't do it for me. I don't think anybody would go on a date with Chucky. We have to remember even. Ted Bundy, the serial killer. He was charming and handsome, wasn't he? Mm-hmm. And that's how they lure us in. So even though my initial impression of my ex was [00:25:00] not a good one, I kind of had this hypervigilant detection system. Like, oh no, I know you buddy. You don't even have to say two words. I know who you are. I didn't listen to it because he didn't approve of me. And that, that just trumped everything I had to win his approval. So once I got him to like me a little bit enough to let me in, well then he saw a vulnerable, codependent, people pleasing opportunity to take advantage and take control. And that's exactly what he did. But, but I'm gonna be very clear about this because I'm big on accountability. Sure. Looking back, I mean, it's not my fault that I was raised that way. It's not my fault necessarily that I was vulnerable to a romantic relationship like that. But I do see that, for example, my biological father, who I have a wonderful relationship with, he had two daughters and [00:26:00] like my one sister, the oldest, one of the two, they were raised in a home by two loving parents who wanted them, supported them, encouraged them, took them to church every Sunday. You know what we would think is, uh, I hate to use the word normal, but normal, nice family, right? Oie. Yeah. It would be healthy. She has self-esteem. She knows who she is. She has boundaries. I didn't, I was none of that. So if you would've put her in that same situation I was in with my ex back then, she would not have entertained it in the slightest, right? She would've set that boundary and said, no, thank you. Have a nice day, and that would've been it. Um, me, like I said, just a little bit different. And I think unfortunately, a lot of people that fall into these romantic relationships do have that sense of needing to have the approval and needing to, please other people for whatever reason. And sometimes it's ironically not even a bad childhood. Sometimes [00:27:00] it's this personality that we call the parentified daughter. It could be a daughter of a very nice family, but the oldest daughter who had to help mom with the siblings or it could be the daughter mm-hmm. Of an alcoholic or somebody with a drug dependency who had to be the parent to the parents and to the other children. The parentified daughter that has this intense, uh. She's compelled to nurture and care for and take care of everybody. She subdues her own needs and takes care of everybody. But it's like these narcissistic or abusive people. Um, they can just sense that It's like they can sniff it out because that's exactly what they want you to do. You jump through the hoops and I will give you a treat. I mean, I liken it and gasping for air, oftentimes to being like a dog. I, if I was a good girl, which he actually used that verbiage with me, good girl, good girl all the time. If I said the right thing, good girl. Even [00:28:00] in the bedroom, good girl. It's sad when I look back on what I tolerated, but, um, if I was a good girl, then he treated me okay for a few days. But boy, if he saw that, I said or did something he didn't approve of, well, then I suffered consequences. I think this is a great time to stop our conversation. For now. I definitely wanna hear the rest of what she has to say. She has given us so many gold nuggets today as she has the first time she was on the show, and I really, want to continue the conversation with her a little bit further though. I do encourage you to come back the next time on the wounds of the Faithful podcast. I wish you a great week. God bless you and bye for now. [00:29:00] Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.
Notre série sur les objets de pouvoir s'intéresse dans cet épisode à la soutane de l'abbé Fulbert Youlou, le premier président du Congo-Brazzaville indépendant. Homme d'Église, mis à l'écart par le Vatican pour son engagement politique et ses mœurs, il continuera cependant à porter la tenue religieuse. Suivant un calcul très politique. Fulbert Youlou a revêtu la soutane, parce qu'il a effectivement été prêtre. Mais l'usage qu'il en a fait ensuite, après avoir été interdit de célébrer la messe, est devenu éminemment politique. Au moment de son entrée en politique, au milieu des années cinquante, la soutane devient un vêtement de prestige, mais aussi, comme l'explique l'historien Jean-Pierre Bat, une façon de capter à son profit le vote de populations marquées par les mouvements messianiques et le souvenir des résistants à la colonisation. « Il va essayer de cristalliser sur sa soutane tout le capital magico-religieux. Il va donc lancer toute une campagne "Kiyunga-la Soutane". Il va y avoir, à l'initiative d'un de ses conseillers, M. Vincent, qui est un spécialiste de l'anti-communisme, une campagne photographique mettant en scène Fulbert Youlou. Il est en permanence revêtu de sa soutane noire, qui fait le lien entre tous ces espaces politiques », explique-t-il. À lire aussi1. Spéciale Archives d'Afrique - Fulbert Youlou (1/10) Des légendes miraculeuses se diffusent alors. L'une d'elles, selon l'historien congolais Joachim E. Goma-Thethet, a pour décor les chutes de la Loufoulakari, où le résistant kongo Boueta Mbongo avait été décapité par les colons : « La légende dit que l'abbé Fulbert Youlou, après s'être recueilli là, entre dans la Loufoulakari avec sa soutane et il en ressort complètement sec. Donc l'abbé Fulbert Youlou établit une filiation avec les anciens résistants anticoloniaux de la région du Pool ». Ce sont en fait de véritables pouvoirs magiques qui sont prêtés à cette soutane, comme le raconte le documentariste Hassim Tall Boukambou : « Le président Fulbert Youlou était censé tourner à l'intérieur du pays, emprunter le chemin de fer Congo-Océan, et pris par le temps, il n'a pas pu s'arrêter dans toutes les gares. Les populations de ces gares riveraines étaient persuadées que le train de Fulbert Youlou s'était envolé, tout simplement, avait survolé ces gares, et certaines personnes affirmaient à l'époque que le train avait été vu dans le ciel. Et tout cela grâce aux pouvoirs de Fulbert Youlou, incarnés notamment par sa soutane ». À lire aussiAu Congo avec Hassim Tall Boukambou, chasseur d'archives La signification politique que Fulbert Youlou attribue à sa soutane est d'ailleurs très fluide. En novembre 1961, au palais de l'Élysée, il la décrit plutôt comme un symbole de son attachement à la culture française : « Le costume civil que portaient avant moi MM. les présidents Diori et Maga, la soutane que je porte aujourd'hui, sont en eux-mêmes, je le crois, une déclaration d'appartenance à la civilisation française ». L'évolution des soutanes de Youlou symbolise en tout cas la transformation de son pouvoir. Arrivé au sommet de l'État, il revêt une soutane blanche à l'image de celle du pape, qui créera quelques embarras protocolaires. À la recherche de luxe, enfin, il se fait confectionner des soutanes de couleur chez le grand couturier Dior, des soutanes qui deviendront le symbole de la dérive de son régime.
Kiera is joined by Ted Osterer of Synergy Dental Partners to talk about the money field of dentistry in this moment of 2025, including tariffs, negotiating and raising fees, finding supplies, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am jazzed. I have a super fun guest on the podcast today. We're going to talk about the tariff sheriff, how that's impacting dentistry, the rise of dental supply costs, and honestly what to do because I'm so annoyed by all these pieces. What's the economic outlook? How do dentists freaking survive? Like, gosh, it just seems like a funny world out there. But we have Ted Osterer. He is with Synergy. I love this buying group. I think they're Absolutely incredible. We're gonna shed some light for you guys. So Ted, welcome to the show today. How are you? Ted Osterer (00:32) I am doing very, very well. Thank you so, so much for having me. Congratulations on your thousandth episode recently. I'm happy to be a part of this and any value I could bring to your listeners, hey, we're all better for it. Kiera Dent (00:39) Thank you. Well, thanks, Ted. And yes, ⁓ I'm still in utter awe that we hit a thousand episodes. Like when I started this, it was just a whim, a pipe dream. Jason and I were hiking. It's not a joke. I literally was hiking half-dome. Mind you, Jason had said, hey, let's go down to Yosemite. I'd love a nice relaxing weekend down there. And I had learned that you could go get, like, this is prior. You can't do this anymore. That you could get these like day passes, like these day camping passes. And if you just went and sat at this little lodge for a few hours. So I was like, Jay, yeah, of course we'll go down there for this very calm, welcoming, welcome, like very easy, relaxing weekend. Little did he know I had full plans to try and get half dome tickets and like hike half dome. I even brought the gloves, like I was ready to go. And sure enough, I got the lottery, got the tickets. Jason was like, what the heck? We're going to freaking hike half dome. Like, Kiera, we haven't even prepped for this. We haven't done any of this. We don't even have a hotel. We got a hotel an hour away. We had to drive an hour outside of town. It was the nastiest hotel. They were like, I'm not even joking. There was like hair and like this little pill on the pillow that were not ours. Jason's like had the worst sleep of his night and I'm like listen there's no hotels around me of 70. Like we're filing so we had a place. We went back super early the next morning to hike Half Dome and lo and behold on our hike I said Jay I think we need to build a podcast. This is where it all started. It was like one of those things that I never imagined a thousand episodes would hit and here we are. Ted, you're hanging out with me a thousand in. And I think it's just fun because of all the value, all the stories, all the people. And like you and I were talking about pre-show, the podcast is really just a place where I get to selfishly hang out and just have a good conversation with people that I like. I get to meet new people in the industry. And as a byproduct of my nerdiness and excitement of meeting people, all of our listeners get benefited by this. So Ted, I'm so happy you're a part of this. Thank you for that. ⁓ Outside of Yosemite, let's talk about the rising cost of dental supplies, the tariffs, how this is going to impact. Because I know people are really nervous about it. I see in lots of dental groups out there, and you guys are really great. That's why I had you come on, because I think you're a huge solution to these problems. So take it away, Ted also, so the listener know how on earth did you even get into dentistry? Let's talk about that first, and then let's talk about what this even looks like for dental practices long-term. Ted Osterer (03:00) How did I get into dentistry? ⁓ It was fate, it was just destiny. Growing up, I had 13 teeth pulled. I had braces for five years and it was like, well, I'm here for life, I guess. And this is just how we can all grow as a unit. ⁓ I've been in dentistry for about 15 years now. I started out as a dental supply rep. I was going door to door for over five years and... funny enough that, you know, this isn't the, I grew up in the New York area. This is the major metropolitan New York area. And I had a really good buddy and he was like, I think you'd be a really good fit actually managing anal practices. And I can actually introduce you to someone. And it was like a small like eight practice group. I can introduce you to somebody, the practice on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Go see if you'd be a good fit. And I'm just kind of like, sure, guess. know, it's like always like have a conversation. And I had a conversation and sure enough, I got along really well with a particular office manager ⁓ from this group and I went to go work for this office manager. ⁓ Within three months, I had my own practice. I was a practice manager. You know, it's so funny going from a supply rep to an office manager, right? I learned the first and I'm not saying this is everybody, but I learned the first day of being in a dental office that I knew nothing. Kiera Dent (03:59) Yeah. Ted Osterer (04:29) about what happens in a dental office, right? Like I'm like, could, God, it's gonna be a piece of cake. I've been in dentistry for five years. And so I could tell you how strong and impressive material was. That does not help with insurance codes or posture downgrade or presenting treatment or creating a schedule or reading a schedule, anything like that. So, much respect to everyone that manages offices that's listening right now that my goodness, you're fighting the good fight. Keep up the good work. ⁓ Kiera Dent (04:40) does not. Agreed. Ted Osterer (04:57) I did that for some time. I was recruited to work for care credit. I oversaw New England for a few years where then they moved me to South Florida. And then a few months after that, I was recruited by Synergy. I've been here since 2021. And this is really, really cool. You know, I came to Synergy because the message was, do you want to make an impact in the dental world? You know, like you love what you do, but do you really want to make an impact? Do you want to help independent dentistry? And I was like, man, what a line, right? Like I was suckered in and I really wanted to make a difference. And sure enough, almost four years later, we're still here at, you know, we're the largest dental buying club in the country. We are the fastest growing dental buying club in the country. And we're just trying to preserve independent dentistry by giving them the same supply and overhead cost at a 20 plus practice DSO would get. that, know, we were founded by dentists. It was as black and white as, Hey, If enough of us order from the same places, they'll give us a discount. And now we have people in charge of negotiating pricing. You know, we have a dedicated team to each member to make sure that they're getting the values worth here at Synergy and they're not ordering more than they have to. And you you asked about tariffs, the rising overhead costs, all of that really, really fun stuff, right? Let's dive into that, right? You know, the perceived economic uncertainty of everything. Are prices going to go up? Yes, of course. Does that mean you need to buy everything right now at the same time to save money in like six months? No, you probably shouldn't do that either. You know, the waiting game generally always pays off, be it in dentistry or outside of dentistry when it comes to money, you know, you're better off just kind of, you know, hold the chips, hold down the fort, you know, you're, it's not, you do not sound the alarms, of course, right? You know, the price of your crowns is not going to go up 10,000 % like. Kiera Dent (06:21) Yeah. Ted Osterer (06:50) Calm down, chill out, right? It's what we've monitored. Have tariffs affected some prices? Yes. ⁓ Many have already gone down. Many have plateaued with that price increase and we kind of have a safe, what, just gauge on what those actually are, right? The percentages have been minimal. It's a few dollars here and there. Kiera Dent (06:52) Yes, I agree. Ted Osterer (07:17) Again, the industry is not belly up. really should not be your ⁓ primary concern. Providing optimal quality ⁓ of treatment should be your number one concern still to this day. I don't think it's going to make a difference whether you're getting a new sensor or not. If your sensor goes, you're OK. Kiera Dent (07:36) It's It's really true. Well, Ted, I love that. And I love your story. And I love that you have the real life experience in dental practices, because that's something that we pride ourselves on at Dental A Team. It's like, we've been there, done that, and done it successfully. And you're right. Being in a practice is no small task. It's no small feat. And ⁓ I think the supply costs, I do agree with you. think certain people were getting a little bit, maybe extra on this, of how concerned we are of cost. And I don't think it's a wrong thing. to look at, to project down and to forecast forward to make sure that you keep in line with your overhead. Like people who are looking at this, I'm high-fiving you because you actually are looking at your numbers and you understand the cost of your supplies. But at the same time, I remember I was at a, I have a friend who's very wealthy. We're talking like this person brings in 28, 30 million annually a year. And like, I just giggle because it is a great friend. Ted Osterer (08:25) Sounds like a great friend. There you go. All right. Kiera Dent (08:29) I thought he said he was a cosmetic dentist when I met him and he's surely not a cosmetic dentist. He's a cosmetic chemist. So skincare, things like that. And I remember we were talking and he was like, yeah, I just got so freaked out about the stocks. I pulled everything out of the stock market. This was two years ago. And I'm like, bro, like the amount of gains because you got so scared is incredible. And I had another friend, we were sitting at a wealth conference and we had like Ray Dalio there and Paul Tudor Jones and gosh. Marks, Howard Marks, like so many of the big players in wealth and they weren't talking. And this guy named Harry Dent came in and Harry Dent has been known for being right and wrong on predictions of the market. And I remember like, I'm not kidding you. We talked in this conference of do not make rash decisions. Like we're here to gather all the information, synthesize it out and then make best decisions. And I kid you not, we are two days into this five day conference and I met this guy and he's like, Harry Dent just freaked me out. I went and sold all my... like sold everything like that night pulled everything out of the stock market. I was like, dude, you're the reason people talk about what not to do because you should never be this radical. And so I feel like while those are extremes, I feel like dentistry can kind of be that way with the supply. Like we feel it's the stock market plummeting on us within our supply chain because we've got tariffs on there. When the reality is let's remember dentistry by default, a lot of our products already have very high margins on them. Like I'm not going to say it to the world in case there are people who are not dentists listening. but you can just think about fluoride for one second. So fluoride has insane margins on it, which are very profitable for you. The bulk of dentistry is very profitable. So these small rises, agreed, let's take a look at that. But like you said, Ted, it's not the end of the world. So I am curious though, from my like nerdy side, what things have gone up the most? What are you guys seeing across the board that the tariffs or the uncertainties, like the economy's gone up you guys. Bread, I'm shocked. or gasoline, you want to talk about gas prices? Like I don't know, in Florida it's way cheap. Here I'm in Reno in California. I kid you not in Truckee it was $7 a gallon and I like wanted to throw up the gases that much money, but I'm like if gas for a gallon is $7, bread prices, I mean you're paying five bucks, six bucks a loaf for bread, like supplies are going to be higher. It's not something that I'm like, oh my gosh, my cotton rolls went up. Well yeah, of course they went up. does like everything in the world has gone up. Home prices have gone up, but I am curious, what have you guys seen that the tariffs hit the most? Like what are some of those supplies? But we're ashricking this. Everyone listening, you have to promise you will not be either of my two friends who go radical. So when Ted tells you which one's worth a little bit higher, do not go out and give me like your prepping situation where you go buy all this because you're freaking out about it. Like steady the course, stay consistent, and just like watch the scene because most things will level out just like in stocks, just like in investments. But if we're radical and being wild on it, that's where you get. Like it just does not benefit. So I think Ted, everyone has promised. I made them just promise like everybody. Yes, you promise. Don't be radical. Ted, what are some of the ones that are seeing the highest hits? Like what, what products, what things are you guys seeing? Ted Osterer (11:33) Since you all promised ⁓ not to be radical, I will go ahead and share. Yeah, unbreakable. We know that's unbreakable. Kiera Dent (11:36) You promised. It's unbreakable. You did that, you like kissed the thumb, something like that. And then you like do a dance. All of them have done that, right? Nobody better lie. Don't be radical. Okay. They're good. Ted Osterer (11:52) Excellent. So for those listening at home, I did a very, very impressive interpretive dance, but for those watching, you saw it, it's all good. ⁓ So with a lot of the terrorists I've seen, and look, it's so volatile, you know, and for those, again, listening, I'm doing that thing with your finger, you go up and down a lot about how much it goes up and down. You know, look, I mean, you saw a lot of the anesthetics made in Canada go up a significant percent. You saw a lot of lab cases sent from overseas or, you know, it's funny enough, for those that don't know what the gray market is in terms of the supplies in the industry, Products are made overseas, totally fine, right? There's nothing wrong with products that are made overseas. However, sometimes they're made in factories that are only authorized in certain countries, even though it could be big name, know, supply partners, major manufacturers. I won't name drop, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to, you can Google it, you have access to the internet, congrats. When it comes to, these products that are made overseas are only regulated to be in select countries, they still have to be refrigerated certain ways, they still could have, they could have been made a long time ago, they're set to expire. They are mailed here and then they are sold to the United States, they're unregulated. You'll see their costs are... Insanely low to the point where it's too good to be true spoiler a lot a spoiler it is too good to be true right in the event that someone You know your malpractice insurance Is kicked in you use great, you know gray market products. You might be losing a case and that's not the smoke you want However, in the event of these tariffs funny enough what went up these gray market products, right? ⁓ They went up to the point where Kiera Dent (13:25) Yeah. Interesting. Ted Osterer (13:46) They're the same pricing, if not more than what your rep is offering you now. know, and look, you don't want to be caught with something like that. And it goes to show you that you, again, you're worried about optimal care. You should be worried about what you're putting in your patient's mouth as well. And depending on where you order it from, right? Like picture yourself, you're a patient in a chair, okay? And an assistant walks in to set, you know, to set the room, to put the supplies that you're going to use on that tray and she opens an eBay box. Imagine what the patient must be feeling knowing that or an Amazon box. It's like, wait a minute, if your patient's aware at all, you probably don't want that. And now that price is the same price that a major dealer is going to offer you or a rep can offer you. That's the worst case scenario. I believe that that's what I've seen went up the most. And there were some labs from overseas. Kiera Dent (14:23) Yeah, no. No. No. I'm just. Ted Osterer (14:44) ⁓ where the tariff was taking effect, a lot of the tariffs they were getting, were passing directly onto the consumer. I've seen that stop also. I'm not gonna say it's not gonna happen again, but it's not like you can order in bulk all these cases, you know? So, you know, again, when it comes to your labs, if you're satisfied with your lab, play the waiting game. You should be fine. Kiera Dent (14:53) Mm-hmm. It's true. Yeah, that's actually really helpful to know Ted, because I was really curious and I think it's one of those things of, I don't know, I'm the clinician inside of me. I originally dental assistant, office manager, treatment coordinator. We have a lot of hygienists on our team. ⁓ I think all of us in consulting, well, yes, we watch the numbers exponentially, which is why I brought Ted on. I wanted synergy to be here. I think it's a great solution for your numbers. The biggest thing I will also say is like, Please don't be so obsessive with the numbers that you cut your amazing dentistry and you are actually not doing the best dentistry for patients. I believe that when we do good by our patients, when we take care of them, when we use great products, I'm not saying you have to be I have a car. I'm not saying you have to be like high, high end. You can if you choose, but just making sure that we're doing right by our patients. Like I said, dentistry is a very profitable industry. as is, like we have done a really good job of keeping the practices profitable in spite of insurances and all of that. But I really just want to make sure people, when we're looking at this, let's not penny pinch and nickel, like watching all of our nickels when we're actually doing a disservice to our patients. So agreed, like that gray market, things like that. Yes, I like to be a good shopper. I love to get a good deal, but making sure that it's a good deal that's also taking care of your patients would be my like word to the wise. Again, I believe that when we are good and we're honest to our patients, people feel that there's good karma, there's good energy, it's all the way around. So Ted, how does synergy work? Like how do you get around this? Because things are going up. Being a business owner, mean, our margins are, they've been high, so maybe they're a little less high. I will also say, like doctors, I hope you've increased your fees too. You should do that. like, it's not just supplies that get to go up. Dentistry also gets to go up and it should be going up. And if you haven't raised your fees, I'll just asterisk that right now. Like that is very common. It's very normal. It should be done every single year. I think that's a way to offset some of these costs for you too. It's ethical and honest, but Ted kind of walk us through like independent dentists, which are most of the practices listening. We do have some DSOs on there. I think sometimes you can feel like, I don't know. It's like the little brother who's watching the big brother drive the car and it's like, why can't I get these deals? Like I know I'm just one practice, but. Sometimes you feel neglected. sometimes feel like distributors and manufacturers don't give you as good of a deal. Like, let's be real. The DSOs do get better deals than you do. I I've heard, I go talk to a lot of people and they're like, well, yeah, if you've got 20, 30, 50 practices, we're going to give you like pennies on the dollar compared to my solo practice that's going to be paying more for it due to the bulk distribution. So how can we have that of like, how can Independence Dennis win? Not have these costs hit them and to still play in the big leagues, even though they don't want to necessarily practice that way today. Ted Osterer (17:53) Yeah, awesome question, right? You hit on the head. What did DSO's do? They strong arm these dealers, manufacturers, distributors, and they say, look, I have 30 offices. We all want to order from you. We'll commit to this amount of spend. We'll commit to this amount of product. Give me the absolute best deal that you will, or I'm going to the other distributor that's on the next page of this advertisement that I am looking at, right? So they're just negotiating fees all day. That's what the ESOs are doing. They have people in place to negotiate these rates all day. That's what Synergy Dental Partners has, Independent Dentistry, ⁓ I mean, look, it's alive and well. We see it every day, you know, just because there's not major conferences that you're demanded to go to like the ESOs and things like that doesn't mean they're not alive and well and band together and know what's actually going on in dentistry, right? So Independent Dentists will subscribe to Synergy. to have access to the same pricing that those 20 plus, 30 plus practice DSOs would get, right? We negotiate with these supply partners all day long on the supplies that you're already using, right? I mean, that's what we do. We bully our vendors. We come to an agreement with specific supply partners to be in our network and have very attractive offerings that they will only offer to Synergy members, right? We're partnered with major distributors. We negotiate with... them all day, we're partnered with different implant organizations, with different rotary organizations, with different services. Depending on what you're looking for, we're going to offer you something that you would not be able to get on your own, right? Do you have to order in bulk with a synergy member? No, that's the point of us because we have enough dentists all ordering from the same place that the bulk is taken care of. Order as you go, right? So Darby is our anchor supplier, shines the largest distributor in the country. Patterson's the second largest distributor in the country. Darby's the third largest distributor in the country. When you place an order with them, everything comes in one to two days. As a synergy member, any order over $249, there's no shipping charges. And let's think about that in itself. Do you have to order in bulk now? No, do you have to hit a crazy minimum? No, you can order four times a month and not pay shipping. Everything's gonna come in one to two days. Now regarding all these manufacturer deals, Kiera Dent (20:01) awesome. Ted Osterer (20:15) Oh, I like to buy four to get one free. like to buy three to get one free. You hear the word free. Awesome. Great. Now we do have a lot of offerings just like that care, right? However, we've negotiated the net costs of those buy four, get one threes, get one free, buy three, get one free for just one. So you can order one. You don't need to spend $700 on your favorite composite to get one free. And now shade C3 is going to sit on your shelf for the next three years and it expires. You're going to throw it away anyway. So you wasted all that money. Kiera Dent (20:23) Right. Mm-hmm. Ha! Ted Osterer (20:43) The point of us is inventory control. It's cash flow management. I mean, if cash is what you're worried about, well guess what? mean, order as you go, you're probably not gonna pay shipping anyway. You have the supply you need. My goodness, Kara, have you ever had to clean out a supply closet? Is it not the worst day of the month? You know, when people order the wrong things, yeah, maybe you'll return it, or what are you gonna do? You're gonna check it off that checklist and then put it where you think it goes. Now it's gonna sit there forever. Yikes, right? Kiera Dent (21:02) Yep. Yep. Ted Osterer (21:13) You know, with Darby, things are easy to return. You order as you go, it's not gonna get lost in some shuffle if you order as you go, right? We are partnered getting discounts with Strom and NeoDent for implants and BioHorizons and Zest for the locator attachment through overdenture materials, Comet and Brassler for rotary. ⁓ We just rolled out our partnership with Bisco. We're partnered with UltraDent, Crestor, LB, Phillips. I'm going to put your listeners to sleep as I shamelessly plug these. Incredible companies offering the incredible deals are giving our members but the whole point of us is Carrie said you love to shop Bad news pal. I'm taking that phone away from you. We've done that shopping for you We know where your pricing should be is every price the lowest price on the market. I can't confidently say yes It's not true. I can confidently say that a lot of them are the best price in the market But every price is going to be competitive and if you're taking four or five hours to place an order with six tabs open texting four different reps. That's four patients that you could have seen in that time. not only, let's say you order from all those places. Now you got five different shipping charges. And now you don't know when any of these orders are gonna come. It could take weeks. Something could be on back orders. Something could be expired. But hey, you saved a dollar on gloves. Congratulations, you know? Kiera Dent (22:16) you I love it. And I think that this, is why I like Synergy. I feel like it's, you get the Costco discounts without the bulk requirements. And that's something that I really enjoyed about it because something we teach with our clients is do not be stocking up. I remember I worked at Midwestern University's dental college for a few years. And I remember I went through their supplies and because there was so much Ted Osterer (22:44) Yep. Kiera Dent (22:58) We, like, I remember throwing away boxes and boxes and boxes of expired supplies, things that we couldn't use anymore. And it was disgusting. And I was shocked and I was like, that's it. We have to get this to where we can see everything. And so we're really big in consulting of like tip out bids, having clear things, having it where your order is not like tucked in boxes and nooks and crannies. ⁓ And the way you're able to do that is by buying as you need it, rather than buying. Like I remember buying when I was an assistant ordering. Ted Osterer (23:07) What a waste. Kiera Dent (23:25) I think like 10 boxes of gloves. Like we had them stacked everywhere. It was just like an absurd amount because we were like, well, we got the deal. We need to have this versus like, no, like what are we using? That also keeps our costs down. We're not having these high end fluxes and low drops in our supplies. We're able to have that more consistent, have more consistent overhead. And like you said, sometimes Costco is not the cheapest. Sometimes I can get it cheaper at other places, but the reality is the time we're saving and also the more dentists buying within Synergy. more we're able to get the bulk discount. So it's like, it's the biggest DSO you can be a part of without being a part of a DSO, like air quotes around it, because you're not a part of a DSO, but it's the collective community group that's driving down the pieces for it. And Ted, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like when I've talked to Synergy in the past, you don't have to give up your reps, because I know people get really weird about like, but like we've been best friends with so and so, and it's like, you can still order from the companies you want. Is that correct? Or do you need to like order through Benco? I thought it was like something with that, but help us understand like, Do I have to give up my rep? Do I have to only order through your guys' people? How does this work for me to transition over? Because I do know dentists are very loyal and I think that's an amazing attribute. I would say like stay loyal. Also make sure that your overhead's making sense as you're going and buying supplies. Ted Osterer (24:36) If you're a member of Center Gentle Partners, feel free to order from whoever you'd like. There's no minimums or anything like that. Now, are you better off buying from the suppliers in our network if you're trying to save money and time? Yes, like you just said. So Darby's our anchor supplier. They're the only distributor that we work with. If you're best friends with the Banco rep and you're looking to save money, and you give us a shot and like I said the sole point is to save money we can very much help you and there's plenty to go around that if you need to order from Banco who you mentioned earlier or any other distributor have at it but I mean if we can cut your supply cost by 25-30 % you keep your reps for service you keep your reps for whatever you choose to keep them for yes by all means we are not offended there's no exclusive like that. Now relationships are important. know, like you said that regarding manufacturers, if you have a rep already with Darby, you don't have to change who you're already ordering from as long as they're network. We don't force you to do anything differently. But hear me out. You brought up Costco. Now, you know, you went to Costco, you you only have how many free hours in a week? You know, either you can get that at Costco or you could spend the gas money and the time. Kiera Dent (25:44) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ted Osterer (26:01) to hit up Walmart and Publix and somewhere else on the way home and now you're too tired to go do whatever it is that you wanted to do that night. But hey, you saved like 26 bucks, have at it, well done. How valuable is your time to you? Yeah. Kiera Dent (26:05) Yeah. Well done. Yeah. And if your gas is $7 a gallon, you did not actually make any money. thinking about that, but like for dentists, I think there's a good book, Dan Martell, I raved about him quite a few times to buy back your time. And I think this is a zone where we can have, where you can actually save time. You can save money and you can actually, even your assistant. So doctors, you might not be ordering, but your assistant's ordering. Think of like, if I didn't have to give up five hours or four hours of my assistant's time, which is what I used to have to block off. Ted Osterer (26:22) You Kiera Dent (26:43) and you can see more patients with that assistant rather than them ordering that right there is a cost saving. So I did some quick math because I heard what you said. If we are able to save you usually 25 % on your supply costs. So I just thought, okay, let's say there's a million dollar practice. This million dollar, that's about 83,000. We'll just do 84,000 rough math. A month is what this practice would be producing. We like as a consulting company for your supply costs to be about 5 % of that. So I was like, okay. That'd be like 4,200 bucks that month that could go towards supplies. If you guys save 25%, that's a thousand dollar savings, over a thousand dollar savings on that 4,200 a month. I was thinking about that, like a thousand dollars a month. This is on a million dollar practice. I didn't go for a sky high one. If you're bigger than that, obviously it's way more than that. But I just thought Ted, like, if you could save a thousand dollars a month, cause I know you guys have this, like you guys have sexy stats on how much you're able to save practices. I understand you might have to have two, three conversations with your reps. of like, guys, for us, we care about you, we love you. The reality is, I'm willing to have that conversation if I'm gonna get thousand bucks a month. Because that's now $12,000 for the year. And I think about, well right there, if you're looking at other things, virtual assistants can cost you $12,000 for a year. They can do all your billing, they can do outsource pieces for you, you could hire a personal assistant for you for $12,000. Even that extra $1,000 a month, I'm thinking, could you bring on different team members for that? What does that look like? I understand like a full assistance not going to cost you 12 grand, but I'm like virtual assistance are outsourced billing, different things that you could use those funds for that right there to me. I'd be willing to have some conversations and just look at. So that's where I want to, I'm really big on numbers because I'm like, cool, 25%. But I'm like, when it breaks down to like thousands a month that I could then reinvest and use in better areas, just like I'm like, you guys, you can keep spending money on Indeed. Go for it. And I'm not here to say indeed is not great. but you could also switch to AvaHR, which used to be VivaHR. It's literally 149 bucks a month for unlimited posting of ads. I took my cost of posting ads. I'm doing the same thing. I'm literally posting ads on the exact same platforms. I used to spend $15,000 a year on that, and now I pay about $1,200 a year. Right there, I'm like, that's a switch I'm willing to make. Yes, bummer, I don't get to like post directly to Indeed anymore. Same thing, I don't maybe get to like buy directly from my rep. you still can keep the relationship. Like if you need to buy equipment or different things like that, like you can still keep the relationship. But I think, and they will try to sweet talk you, but I've seen it with the buying groups, the savings that you get, I just say have the conversation. A thousand bucks a month, go on, get a massage, do something fun. Like, I don't know, take your kids on vacation for 12 grand, whatever it is, but that's just literally buying the same materials through a different platform and getting... money kickback. don't know. To me, Ted, it's always been a no-brainer, which is why I bring you guys on the podcast. So that's my spiel. But Ted, anything you have to take, wrap this up because I think with the tariffs, with the rising costs, realizing it's not that big of a deal, buy as you go. You can use these buying groups. You can be like a DSO, but you can buy what you need, not having to get all these deals. You're able to cut your costs. You said about 25 % on supplies and just go look at what you spent on supplies last three months. Think if you got 25 % of that back. I think I'd be willing to have a conversation. But Ted, you tell me what you think. Those are my thoughts on this. Ted Osterer (30:06) I said, I was going to say like the exact same thing, unfortunately, but I, you know, I'll take that one. I'll take that one second further to really, really simplify it. Right. And just summarize everything you just said. You know, we're partnered with over 50 supply partners, including eight different labs. Right. So as a consulting agency, right. Like we see labs as high as 10, 15%, you know, it should be what six to 8%. Yeah, so I mean, let's say you're a million dollar practice. That's the practice Kiera just said. If I save you just 1 % of your overhead, that is a $10,000 that Kiera's talking about. And it is so easy to save that as a member of Synergy. And my goodness, thank you so much for having me on. It really means a lot. And thank you for acknowledging. Kiera Dent (30:59) Yeah, of course. I think it's a matter where Ted, I, when I get really passionate about things, like I love Swell. They do their Google reviews so well, you're able to save costs on your marketing, but get like really incredible patients. When I see a zone where I'm like, supplies are supplies are supplies. I understand you love your rep, but I'm like, supplies are. If I can get the exact same anesthetic, like I need my Lido, it's certified and I can buy it from Benco or I can buy it from Shine, but I can get it for... X versus Y and I'm going to save substantially to me that's a way doctors it. I think that this is just being a higher level CEO that realizes just like DSO CEOs do as much as I love the product from X. I'm going to buy it from here because I'm literally able like it's the exact same thing. just get it on sale. So why would I not do that? And as a female like that's girl math for you Ted. Like if I can get it on sale, I'm going to buy it because I can use it to go get what I want over here. I just think like These are the zones, dentists, that the elites do. These are the zones that the multi-million dollar practices are doing. So learn from their strategies. Again, it's gonna be one, two, three, maybe a little bit uncomfortable conversations. You don't need to burn the relationship. But I would say if I was you sitting there looking at my overhead, looking for ways to do cash flow, I would radically consider something that's not going to impact your patient care, that's going to make your practice much easier and also give you more time back in your life. So that's why I you guys on. Again, I don't work for Synergy. We don't have an affiliate relationship with them. I love them, I adore them. I truly think you guys are just doing a great thing in the business. We are working on a partnership with them in the future for all of our clients. It's something that's really been big on my mind because I feel like, hey, why not? All of our clients that are with us, let's get them the best deals. But this is why I wanted you guys on the podcast. So Ted, how can people connect with you? How can they try you guys out? Again, you don't have to burn your rep. can just go even test it out. ⁓ But how can they try you guys out just to see what this looks like for their practice? Ted Osterer (32:53) Go to the TheSynergyDentalPartners.com know, leave your information with us. Please, please, please tell us that the A team sent you, you know, of course extra promotional offers if the A team, I mean, A plus team in my book, of course. ⁓ Yes, yes, A plus plus. And please let them know that you were sent by them so we can make the offering even more attractive for you. And you know, when you join Synergy, you don't even have to have that typical conversation. You can just hide in the bathroom. Kiera Dent (33:05) Thank you. Thank you. I agree. Ted Osterer (33:23) and we're all good. It's okay. Kiera Dent (33:25) Yeah, it truly is. Don't make this wild, you guys. ⁓ Ted, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming and talking about what the reality is and what things have gone up in pricing and how you guys have been able to watch it go up and down. You're seeing so many more supplies than just the solo practitioners seeing. so you're able to see, kind of like stock markets, we're able to see at a bird's eye view of what's really going in the landscape of it. And I want to just remind people, you guys, the future is bright. No matter what's going on, the future is bright. There's always solutions. Ted Osterer (33:29) Thank you. Kiera Dent (33:53) And I think right now is where we get a bit more scrappy, a bit more innovative, and truly you shouldn't be seeing much of a hit. Like shoot, if you're seeing a hit, just switch over to Synergy and you won't even see that hit. So try it out. ⁓ Ted, thank you for being on the podcast with me and thank you for everybody. I really think this is an awesome way for you guys to truly take care of your practice, take care of your patients, and make life easier, which is what we're all about. So Ted, thanks for joining me today. I super appreciate you. Ted Osterer (34:03) Yeah. ⁓ I'm happy to be here. Thanks again. Kiera Dent (34:19) And for all of you listening, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.
Tiff and Kristy talk about revisiting those goals your practice set at the beginning of 2025, and if you're falling short, discuss how to get back on track. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be back here today. I've got Kristy with me. You guys know I love podcasting with the consultant team and I love each of them for something very, special. Kristy, you are my gal that, like, I feel like we can talk about anything. Always be on the same page. You riff with me very easily. And you always, always, always, I have to value this and appreciate it at the end. If I ever ask you for anything I missed, you always catch something and always have a pearl of wisdom. And I just think it's really, really, one, talented. Like not everyone can do that or think. A lot of people get like stressed, especially podcasting. And two, it just makes me really, really excited for your clients because I know you just operate in that way. You're always thinking of like, my gosh, what else can I add? What value can I bring? And your clients are just insanely lucky to have you as a consultant. And your previous clients I know are just always checking in with you and they're always asking those simple questions or those hard questions. And Kristy, think it's just really cool. You're an insanely special human. So thank you for being here. Thank you for being a part of our team. I hope you understand and know how valued you are, the Dental A Team, and just personally and professionally. Kristy (01:25) Absolutely. Thank you. I'm honored to be here and be a part of ⁓ changing dental lives. ⁓ The Dental A Team (01:26) Yeah. Thank you. And just so everyone knows who's listening, podcasts are not like super easy. Recording podcasts can be a little daunting. And that was even before we had to do it by video. And I think about this a lot, actually, because it just, I think it's so funny. This is kind of like cell phones. We're going go on a little small little tangent because I think it's hilarious. I remember way back in the day when we were like, bricks with these giant cell phones. We were like, this is stupid, like, why it needs to be small? So we had this little tiny flip phone that you really couldn't do a lot on, right? Because it was so small, but it was small. We wanted small and compact. And then we went to a BlackBerry and it was like, this is a whole computer and I can do my emails. And then we went small again. We like keep going back and forth and back and forth. And now, know, iPhones got it pretty well dialed in, but it's so much bigger than my cell phone was in high school. And I think about this a lot because I think we go forward and backwards in life constantly. This is no different than that. Because you remember, I remember Brody was little and I used to do Beachbody coaching. I loved it. It was just like a past life that I absolutely loved. The fitness industry, the fitness world is my passion. But I remember we used to get on Facebook Live or we do YouTube videos and we were like, hey guys, this is how you make this cake or whatever it was. And then we removed the video aspect, right? And that's when podcasts got popular and podcasts were not video. Podcasts were strictly just talking. And I remember Dana and I, or Britt and I, like get together and we could see each other, but it wasn't being recorded. So we could come however we wanted to look. It was just like, come as you are. We're only here for the voices. And then now, then we added the video back in and I'm like, wait, like we keep going backwards. Now I feel like we're doing YouTubes all the time. So. Anyways, my small tangent there is like going forward and then coming backwards and feeling like you're making progress, but then technology pulls us back a little bit. And I think that we do that in life and personal life. We do that in habits. We're like, so good. The 30 days sugar detox, like I'm doing so good, right? We get to 28 days and we're like, but just a little bit won't hurt. I just want a little sugar. And we're like, dang it. Now we're sliding backwards or whatever the I think we do that a lot in life and it doesn't have to be technology. It can just be habits. It can. It can be anything in some some places. A place that I see it a lot is within our goals within a company that only team has company goals. We we do the same thing over here. Every business is business is what I always say. We've consulted eye doctors and chiropractors and like business is business. I talked to. You know, my financial advisor about his business structure, he's like, help me with the CPAs, whatever. Business is business and we all move forward and fall back and move forward and fall back. And today, Kristy, I thought it might be beneficial kind of being mid-year-ish to do a check-in on that. I know we do it with all of our clients, but making sure even non-client doctors who are here, business owners who are listening, that you know that this happens. This is... This is life. Like we're back on video. Here we are. This is life. And we go forward and then we fall backwards. But no matter what, there's always a space to move forward again or move forward more. If you didn't fall backwards, you move forward more. There's always that space and there's always that availability. And oftentimes we get to this space in the year, June to like August timeframe, and we haven't looked at our trajectory very often. in and maybe we look and we're like, ⁓ heavens, Tiff, like, I'm like 300 grand short of what I wanted to hit this year. And Kristy, how many times have you had a doctor call you just like, this is it, we got to change my goal. We've got it. We're not doing three million. We're doing 2.7. And you're like, no, we're not doing that. Yeah, like, no, we are not here for changing goals. We're here for pushing forward. And I thought it would be fun for us to really take a look at that today and figure out how can you know that you're on or off track? And when you're off track, what do you do to get back on track? Now, Kristy, ⁓ what do you have your clients doing? And what have you always, you've worked with, you've consulted for a while. what have you always had your clients doing to stay, not even to stay on track, but just to know where they are. Like how do we know our baselines in business? Kristy (06:15) Yeah, well first off, I always like to start the year projecting out our year, right? So looking at what we did last year and creating a goal with growth on top of it and projecting that out for the future. But then also when we do that, ⁓ taking it and chunking it down. So we may have a big goal and starting the beginning of the year, if our goal is three million, that can be so daunting, right? And I think we all have to remember. The Dental A Team (06:44) Mm-hmm. Kristy (06:47) Yeah, we always have to keep our eye on the prize, but we need to also chunk it down. And you made a very good point about it being June. And my mind went to thinking back to the beginning of the year and how we're really excited, thinking of like starting school even. Your first year in college, I'm a freshman and I'm all gung-ho and I'm ready to study and I have these habits. And then all of a sudden we start to fall back in routine. remember, The Dental A Team (07:05) Yeah. Yeah. Kristy (07:17) that each day is a new day to start over. But to your point... Right now, we have our big goal and maybe we have a sheet with a thermometer or however you want to fill it and make sure we're always keeping our eye on that prize, but go smaller. Go to your month view, go to your weekly view, then go to your daily view and chunk it down because it makes it so much more doable and we resist the urge to change the goal then because we can look and see where we're at. The Dental A Team (07:33) Yeah. That's nice. Kristy (07:49) and what we have to do to get back on track. The Dental A Team (07:53) Yeah, I love that you said that like scale it back. Look at what the different layers are and then always looking at if you added these layers together now, does it equate to where you need to be? And something you said, Kristy was massive. Like I think so many doctors get into the year and like I'm going to do three million this year and then that's it. And it's like divide three million by 12. That's what we're hitting every month. And then we just go month by month by month. But if we're not looking at our leads, our lags and our current, then we get lost in the shuffle. And Kristy, I think that's what you're saying, right, Cheon? Get back and know and then always look at what we've accomplished and where we have left to go. Not June to August timeframe can be seriously pivotal in making or breaking those goals, because if you now look at January to June and you say, OK, What did I, what have I done? What is my year to date production so far? And then subtract that from your yearly goal and you're going to see your gap, right? So that's what you have left to do this year. Sometimes you might look at that and you might see your $300,000 short. That sounds massive, right? You're like, holy cow. Well, let's divide that by how many months we have left this year. Doesn't mean we throw in the towel and we're done. We say, okay, If I'm going to do this, how do I get this done? And again, what you said, Kristy, it's mid year, but we're doing the same thing. We're doing the same thing that we did at the beginning here. We're just reevaluating and reassessing where we have left to go. So a lot of times, you know, I've had dentists that were like a hundred grand short, even at the end of the year, we look at it and we're like, oh my God, we barely missed it. Well, let's look at where we missed it. Why did we miss it? What happened? to get us to this point? And how do we make sure that this doesn't happen again? And typically it's been missed somewhere during that year where it was like we were short 25 grand on this month, we were short 25 grand on this month, and we were short 10, 10, like whatever it equates to, right? But it's like those add up so quickly that we tend to miss them. So if you get to that mid-year and you say, okay, this is what I have left, let's reassess. and look at how long do we have. Kristy, something I do get asked a lot is, well, what do we do when doctors are like, let's take this vacation time? Or I've got associates who are like, oh, guess what? Next month, I've got CE and I've got this and I've got office managers and doctors that are calling me and pulling out their hair. And they're like, I have a goal, but how am I supposed to hit this? So Kristy, what do you suggest when they are off? goal, they're off track, they've got how much ever money that they need to make up and then they've got something looming, some sort of maternity leave or something we just didn't really account for. How do you have your doctors really account for that and put it back into their goals? Kristy (11:02) Yeah, I love that we're talking about this subject and I know we tend to talk about, you know, bridging the gap when we're behind and we'll certainly talk about that because many times it's that but... Also, don't forget to celebrate if you're ahead, you know? And so celebrate if you're ahead, but not just celebrate, take a look at what you did to get there so you can repeat those processes, right? And to your point, if we are behind, take a look and chunk it down. What would it take to bridge that gap? And if I have providers looking for time off, The Dental A Team (11:28) you Kristy (11:37) Factor that into the equation. If we're behind already and we take this much time off, what now will the gap be? So for associates, for owner doctors, ⁓ it may not be easy to find a temp for them, but for hygiene, it's very easy to say, if we're ahead, do I really need to find a temp? Because we're ahead in our goal. Or, The Dental A Team (11:44) Okay. Yeah. Kristy (12:02) Do I need to find a temp because we're behind in goal? So it helps you make those strategic decisions. ⁓ with that being said, for owner doctors and associates, if we're behind, can we add in anywhere? Could we add one more hour to the day or could we work a Friday versus taking it off? What would that do in order to take that week off? And or can we change our block scheduling? The Dental A Team (12:19) Yeah. turn. Kristy (12:32) some bigger rocks. Take our mind back to during COVID when we only did emergency treatment. It's okay if we push a filling off here or there if it means adding that big rock so we can make up for the loss, right? It's not that we're not going to do the filling, but could we put it in a month where we're already at goal, if you will. The Dental A Team (12:39) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think those are really great points and something you said there was like work the Friday instead of not working made me think of I do have an office that does a few offices that do this, but one particular does really well at looking ahead one to three months consistently, if not further. But they're always looking at OK, if we want to as an office, take this time off or if we have to take this time off for CE or whatever, are there days in the month that were closed that we could open to make up that production? And think that's massive. And again, like you said, I'm going to mimic it. You like definitely celebrate when you're ahead and then look at what does that mean? Now, something I do steer away from, and I know, Kristy, you do too, is changing the goal because you're ahead. So that doesn't mean next month you do 120 instead of 160. It just means great. We've got padding for if we need to utilize that. So if the time comes, I know I had a practice in February that by March they were like, How are we so short? When they looked at it, they had hygienists that had called out sick. They had an associate dentist that was out for a week. They had a hygienist that was on surgery. They lost almost $60,000 just in like crazy schedule happenings that they weren't truly prepared for. And so that can happen at any point. So if you're ahead and then you get to November and it's like, wow, this is kind of crazy. you can account for that. if you get to December and you're so far ahead that you're like, hey, actually, like, we're going to take two weeks off or we're canceling everything for two weeks because we're good. You want to be able to have those flexibilities. so, Kristy, I think it's brilliant the way you have them constantly looking at them. So your practices are always looking at their KPIs, their measurables of where have we gone? Where are we trying to get to? And what do we need to get there so that we can constantly strategize and figure out a new route for that. Now, what do you suggest if we're, I don't know, say $300,000 short, whatever, a hundred, I don't care how much it is, but we're getting towards the time of year, we tend to forget this, that June to August timeframe is a good time to look at your goals because September to December can get a little wild, in my opinion, within dentistry. So if they're a little bit short here or a lot of it short, What do you usually suggest to the doctors going into that kind of holiday season, which is freaking around the corner, which is crazy. How do you suggest that they start really preparing for that? Kristy (15:22) No. Yeah, well, number one, I like to start preparing early. A lot of people think, you know, we hit the September, September, right? And prepare early because we plant those seeds, right? And it doesn't have to be that way. So number one, looking at our unscheduled treatment, you know, who can we re-enroll that has already been in and we just haven't started treatment on? The Dental A Team (15:36) huh. Yeah. Kristy (15:52) There's so many different avenues that we can start to look at and really with the goal of getting our patients healthy, tap into those resources. Or we have patients within our own schedule coming in that have unscheduled treatment. How could we add more on what we're already doing? Because we already have them here, you know, and capture more. The other thing that I was going to say, Tiff, is I do have a lot of doctors that are willing to work through a lunch hour. The Dental A Team (16:00) Go. That's a good point. Kristy (16:19) You know, I know that's not gonna win fans with team probably, yet if we're behind on goal and we all are part of the goal, could we still honor lunch hours with team, but maybe we rotate through so we don't have to add another day, but just simply adding that procedure during lunch if it works for the team, you know? So there's so many different avenues, but if we fail to look at it, then we're already behind the game. But again, to your point, The Dental A Team (16:19) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristy (16:47) starting now to start preparing for the end of the year and talking about what we have to do to bridge that gap, but tap into the resources we already have with the patients we already have. The Dental A Team (17:00) That's brilliant. Looking at your unscheduled treatment is massive. And something you said earlier, Kristy, I'm going to pull back into the space right now. You said, look at what you've done that's worked, right? So look at what has gotten you here. Whether you're where you want to be or not, things have worked. And that's the space that is often missed in life in general. We're really great at looking back and seeing what could I have done better to have gotten a different result. But we often forget to look at what am I doing right? that's producing the right result so that I can repeat that. And when you're looking at your unscheduled treatment, one, if you don't have a lot of unscheduled treatment but you don't have a full schedule, we need to look at diagnosis and new patients. So that's a space. And when you're not hitting goals, those are all spaces that we forget to look at. Often we're just like tackle the same day treatment, which works if you're diagnosing the treatment. if you're getting the patients into the practice that need treatment. So a lot of times we might be behind goal and we might miss that there's something more underlying. It might be lost in marketing. It might be lost in the right new patients. I know I've got practices that are like, we're getting a ton of new patients, but they're clean patients. Fantastic. I love healthy mouths. I want everybody to have a healthy mouth, but I need dirty mouths. need unhealthy mouths. to feed the production. And so being able to get that good mix takes a lot as well. So Kristy, to your point, like, are we celebrating the things that we're doing really well? And then the things that maybe aren't working to move the needle, are we really diagnosing what's truly going on there and tackling the root cause? A lot of times it's within the new patients, it's within the processes. If you've got a ton of outstanding treatment and it's not selling, why? Why aren't patients accepting? If you don't have a ton of treatment and you don't have a full schedule, why? Is it under diagnosis or is it a lack of right patients? know Trish has a client right now. I've had the luxury of watching her consult this client and it's just been a lot of fun to see her take his, what's the word I want, like his, what are you seeing, his view and just shift it. his attention, right? So he was getting the new patients, probably not as many as we'd love, but he wasn't focusing really heavily on the diagnosis, but wanted higher case acceptance, blah, blah, blah. So she really helped to shift. And Kristy, I've seen you do this too, shifting that focus back into, we looking at full mouth or did we get stuck on something? I've seen doctors do this where they're like, I'm going to do implants. So we're only looking for implants and we're missing fillings. We're missing the like GP stuff that I know you don't want to do right now, but it's what fills the schedule. so, Kristy, to your point, really looking at what's working so that we can repeat that and diagnosing what's not working so that we can shift that and make massive impacts. Because sometimes I think that the money is missing because we've got something else is missing and we're maybe not focusing on the right things. Kristy (20:14) Yeah, I love that you said that and you know something else that came to mind when you were talking is so many times we're looking at the dirty mouth, right? And healthy infected mouth or whatever but on our healthy patients It's a great time to take a step back to and say hey Is there anything you don't like about the shape size color of your teeth? So many doctors want to do cosmetic dentistry, but we never talk about it, right? So it's a great opportunity to also celebrate the healthy patient. my gosh, you've been coming for five The Dental A Team (20:38) Yeah. Kristy (20:44) years and haven't had a cavity, keep doing what you're doing at home, and this is a great time. Is there anything you'd like to change about your smile, right? And just by asking some questions, you could probably drum up more ⁓ treatment in your chair right there. The Dental A Team (20:46) Yeah. That's a brilliant idea. I do love that. You do well. This is what I'm talking about, you guys. I said it at the beginning. Kristy's like, yes, and I love that. And I use that. You say that a lot, Kristy. Words are insanely valuable and important, I think. And you say yes, and a lot. And I've noticed I've started doing that. So thank you for giving me that habit. But it's true. You're constantly thinking like, yeah, for sure, healthy patients. And you can still help your healthy patients in different ways. So Kristy, thank you for always having that extra nugget, always thinking like, yeah, for sure. And also, this is what you could do. So, Kristy, I think it's invaluable. Our listeners, I know, picked up on it as well. And your clients, again, they're just, all of our clients are so lucky, but your clients are truly lucky to have you. you guys, I think our biggest action items, go look at your numbers, go look at where you are, where you're going, and what you need to do to bridge that gap to get there. This is the perfect time of year to really prep the rest of the year and look at what are you offering your patients? Are you offering them everything? Like Kristy said, are we looking at healthy patients too and saying, hey, what else could you want to do? What else do you want to do? Are we looking at those options as well? Are we super focused on something right now? It's broaden your focus, change the game and figure it out guys. As always, Kristy, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the invaluable information. And listeners, thank you for being here. Whether you're a current client, a future client, or just here to listen, like you guys are so valuable to us and I hope that you really truly feel that from us. If there's anything we can do to help you, to support you, or guide you, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Again, if you're not a newsletter subscriber, know that there's a slew of information in there. We write almost all of the newsletters from the consultant side ⁓ and we answer a lot of the emails that come through or the social. requests and engagement over there too. So thank you everyone. Kristy, thank you and you guys will catch you next time.
(00:00-5:50) Celebrating Miguel Cairo. Michael McGreevy tracker. Happy Birthday, MM. Is it a bus situation?(5:59-18:58) Andy Crouppen in-studio. Whose idea was the Lawyers Eating Sandwiches podcast? Celebrity trials. System slanted towards the rich and famous.(19:08-39:04) Blues Head Coach Jim Montgomery joins the program to discuss the Blues season since he took over and then the start of the offseason. Coach Montgomery discusses why players tend to stay in St. Louis even after their playing days are over, and some of the moves the Blues have made so far this summer, including the departure of Zach Bolduc. Finally, Coach Montgomery shares his perspective on the end of the Winnipeg series. Jimmy Snuggerud.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Recorded on a much cooler Monday night at the "World Famous" Palm Street Studio. It's the end of season 3! Will the podcast get picked up to carry on to season 4? We finally send JTK a link to connect from Ohio via satellite after a lot of whining. A Hot Dog eating contest announcement! We try to final Pirate Water flavor and it gets mixed reviews. Fishing tales and someone has to poop, it even inspires a tune. JTK's theme song is a huge hit, even with his soon to be bride and sugar momma. We should call and get an update from the Tally Ho, but maybe later. More on the melted modem mayhem and all that jazz. M&M prices are through the roof and Junior is pissed about it. The season of Malort is over and it's also a big anniversary for Adam and Mary, happy 25th!Featuring via satellite JTK and live in studio, Brian "The Blade", Hall of Famer Junior, and The Grumpy Griller along with your host Sir Phillip and Lord Adam. Make good choices!
In this episode of 'Don't Cut Your Own Bangs,' Danielle Ireland interviews adventurer and SDM Diving owner Eli Martinez. They discuss his unique career leading land and ocean safaris, dispelling myths about predators, and the connection between exploring the wild and self-discovery. Eli shares his journey from aspiring bull rider to renowned wildlife guide and photographer, emphasizing the therapeutic and transformative power of nature. Together, they explore how experiencing the wild fosters understanding, empathy, and personal growth. RATE, REVIEW, SUBSCRIBE TO “DON'T CUT YOUR OWN BANGS” Like your favorite recipe or song, the best things in life are shared. When you rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast, your engagement helps me connect with other listeners just like you. Plus, subscriptions just make life easier for everybody. It's one less thing for you to think about and you can easily keep up to date on everything that's new. So, please rate, review, and subscribe today. DANIELLE IRELAND, LCSW I greatly appreciate your support and engagement as part of the Don't Cut Your Own Bangs community. Feel free to reach out with questions, comments, or anything you'd like to share. You can connect with me at any of the links below. Connect with Eli: Book an adventure HERE - https://sdmdiving.com/ Instagram Connect with Danielle: Watch the show on YouTube Instagram The Treasured Journal Wrestling a Walrus 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest 00:13 Eli Martinez: The Adventurer's Journey 01:21 Connecting with Nature and Overcoming Fear 02:18 Building a Dream Career 05:59 Diving into the World of Sharks 12:16 The Power of Social Media and Storytelling 17:59 The Importance of Conservation and Ecotourism 21:40 Personal Growth Through Wildlife Experiences 28:40 Connecting with Nature and Self 29:07 The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life 29:38 Struggles with Anxiety and Self-Doubt 31:04 Emotional Awareness and Growth 32:00 Transformative Experiences in the Wild 35:03 Launching Shark Diver Magazine 35:55 Shifting from Magazine to Excursions 40:49 Dispelling the Predator Myth 48:28 Curiosity and Career Pivots 53:30 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Transcript Eli Martinez Podcast Interview [00:00:00] Danielle: Hello. Hello. This is Danielle Ireland and you are listening to Don't Cut Your Own Banks and Today's Guest. this has been a long time coming for me. I am so excited beyond excited to introduce Eli Martinez. Eli is an adventurer. [00:00:14] He's an explorer, he's an operator and owner of SDM Adventures. It's a group that leads land and ocean safaris. If you have ever seen these wild otherworldly images of people swimming with humpback whales, swimming with orca whales, swimming with crocodiles, swimming with anacondas. There's a good chance that you've stumbled across his images because he is one of the few, right? [00:00:42] It's a pretty small pool of people who make a living doing what he does, Images, they grab your attention, they hook your imagination. But it being on a screen, it's easy to think, well, that's so far removed from my life. what value is there in that for me? Like that's a cool image. But the internet has lots of cool images. [00:01:00] There's a couple of important distinctions and what I think makes this episode so special. What we talk about is dispelling the predator myth and my work as a therapist and his work as a safari guide. They don't seem too related, but there was one common thread that came out of this episode that it's gonna stick with me for a long time. [00:01:21] He's guiding people into the natural world to feel connected to the natural world in a deep and profound way. And when anybody sits with their emotional space. With their feelings. Feelings of discomfort, fear, terror, trauma. That's really hard to do and hard to hold. But when you do and access curiosity, you begin to tap into your true nature. [00:01:49] Your intuition, and so Eli might be talking about sharks and the deep ocean, and I might be talking about feelings, but there is a common thread in language here that makes this episode already one of my favorites. I can't wait for you to hear his story because not only is the work itself that we spent a lot of time talking about, fascinating. [00:02:10] He leads people on wildlife safaris in the ocean, on land. I mean, it's just. What a cool, amazing job. But he built that job. There wasn't an application for him to fill out. He built this from the ground up and there were stumbling blocks, missteps and pivots along the way, and he shares those with us. [00:02:30] So not only can we learn about how could I build a dream that I didn't know was possible, you also have the benefit of. Really getting a sense of what is it like, what is the value, what is the purpose? And I would argue where is the healing in connecting with the natural world, whether that's through a hike or through looking out your window. [00:02:53] And as he states a couple of times, just watch a sunset. Really watch a sunset. So I'm gonna save that. I'm gonna leave that for you there. Thank you for being here. You're gonna love this episode. Welcome, Eli Martinez. [00:03:08] [00:04:18] Danielle: Eli Martinez, thank you so much for being here with Don't cut your own bangs. [00:04:23] This is not the first time we've met, but this is the first time we've done a podcast together and I am like the little kid in me who wanted to be a marine biologist when she first knew what dolphins were. [00:04:34] This feels like just she feels so greedy with excitement to talk to someone who has made a living, being an adventure traveler and swimming with animals and interacting with animals all over the world. So I'm very excited to talk to you. [00:04:47] Eli: Actually, I was a little self-conscious about it because of, because of your background in psychology. [00:04:52] I'm like, okay, all right. where do I start? [00:04:55] Danielle: You know what? Yes. your family actually told me to schedule this podcast interview so that we could really get into what makes Eli tick. No, no, no, no, no., This is a celebration what I'm curious about personally, not just professionally working as a therapist, but I love understanding what leads people down, whatever path they end on. [00:05:16] And probably a lot of that is because I mistakenly thought during my twenties that you went through the school system. You graduate with a degree, you start working in that career, and you follow all of the steps to be a good. Citizen and that was not my path, and it was a lot more twisty and turny and there were a lot of pivots and I can see that now as of value. [00:05:43] But, in those moments where I thought I knew what I was going to be doing and life took me in a different direction, it. Knocked me down pretty hard I think there were a lot of moments where I felt like I was failing or wasn't doing it right, using air quotes of whatever it is. [00:05:59] And so someone like you who, are a storyteller, explorer, wildlife photographer, and have spent your life chasing the wild. you lead ocean and land wildlife, safaris. I love that distinction. Ocean and land, wildlife safaris. [00:06:15] There is not, you can't go to high school and then college and then just start doing what you're doing. There's no Reddit, there's no LinkedIn interview that you can fulfill to make that a career. You had to chisel that together. And so I really wanna understand that more. how you built this dream. [00:06:36] What seems from afar, like a dream life? And I'm sure it is many days, but I wanna know how you did it. [00:06:43] Eli: animals have always been like my first love, as a child, I can remember my first toys were animals. my dream as a child was to become a wildlife veterinarian. that was the only way I knew that I could actually physically be around animals that, 'cause I had no idea about wildlife guiding or photography or storytelling [00:07:05] So veterinarian was the only way I could get close to a zebra or a giraffe. And I said, that's what I want to do. So as a child, that was like that one dream that I had. And of course, life gets in the way and I went to a completely different route. I actually went to school to be a motorcycle mechanic. [00:07:23] So what? [00:07:24] Danielle: Yeah. [00:07:24] Eli: That's [00:07:25] Danielle: definitely a different route. [00:07:26] Eli: Yeah. No, it was, I fell in love with race bikes and I wanted to travel the world. look, me being a mechanic for race teams, that was my thing. I love motorcycles, but I like wrenching them. I like working on them more than I like writing them for, it's just my DNA, just how I like to be. [00:07:43] Fast forward a bunch of years, I fell in love with shark diving. I went scuba diving and on my very first. Dive. I saw a shark and it terrified me. It excited me. filled me with everything that I enjoyed about wildlife to begin with. [00:08:00] And it was coming out of the water that I realized I knew absolutely nothing about sharks. Everything I thought I knew was wrong. [00:08:09] Mm-hmm. , [00:08:10] So I, came outta the water that day and I was just completely fascinated, really obsessed with learning more about sharks. So I, I bought every book I could find. [00:08:20] I read as much as I could about them, and I just was like, I gotta get in the water with them some more. And it was on my very first, travel. I went to The Bahamas and it was on that experience is. What got me on this path that I'm on today was just like, I want to dive with sharks. I want to travel to exotic places. [00:08:41] I want to meet amazing people, [00:08:43] Danielle: How do you wait? Do okay? I, okay, so we're gonna get to the how. So you fell in love, and now it's the how, but I wanna go back. Do you remember the first shark, like in your, can you access that memory and do you know the shark? [00:08:55] I can. What was it? It was a bull shark. Oh, whoa. Okay. Yeah. that's gnarly. Yeah, that is. okay. The first shark you ever swam with was a bull shark. I don't know why that's like the one that scares me. I, I can relate. So not to put on the therapy hat for, for anything other than just, I find this so interesting that the things that scared me, I wanted to learn more about, I found endlessly interesting. [00:09:21] And when I was young it was the ocean, the deep ocean, And I really became, in the way that a suburban kid could really curious about sharks and very interested in sharks. And I would always talk about them and just rattle off a bunch of shark facts. [00:09:36] And I, as you were talking, you reminded me of the fork in the road moment where I thought. What I thought was I wanted to work with animals. What I realized was, oh, I just kinda like you love turning wrenches more than you love racing. I love learning about animals more than I want to. I'll just tell the story. [00:09:57] When I was, 13 or 14, I applied for a summer job at our Indianapolis Zoo. that really burst my bubble of what that was gonna mean. I wanted to work with animals. But I realized, I just wanted to play with the elephants. I didn't wanna do the dipping dots concession stand. [00:10:14] So there's this sense of you, you were afraid you shared that. I dove with sharks. I swam with a bull shark. I came outta the water. I was afraid and then fascinated. is that something there, is that like a theme for you that you feel a jolt or a rush and then you wanna understand that rush more? [00:10:31] Possibly, [00:10:32] Eli: it was just more of like, when I saw the shark, I had two primal instincts, which was, one was to follow it. And the other was to get outta the water. That was just like those two conflicting feelings that was going through me. [00:10:46] And the, when I was, I ran out of air really quick 'cause it was actually my very first ocean dive. [00:10:51] Okay. So I was sitting on the surface, the dive master sent me up to the surface by myself, which is crazy. And when I think about it, man, I didn't know anything I was doing. I'm just looking down. [00:11:01] I'm just like, really worried the shark is gonna come up and get me 'cause I'm on the surface. And that's all I knew. I always knew. I knew the jaw story. I knew a little, just very small snippets of information on sharks and Yeah. And it was completely opposite of what was happening. the shark wanted nothing to do with us. [00:11:17] It tried to avoid us completely. [00:11:18] Danielle: Yeah. [00:11:19] Eli: Got out of the water and then the whole way back to port, I was just like, okay. He didn't come after us. He didn't want anything to do with this. [00:11:28] Like, why? and it was that moment that was just like, after that I got out of the water, I'm like, okay. I gotta know. I gotta know. yeah. [00:11:36] Danielle: what you thought you knew, conflicted with what you experienced, and you were trying to understand that more. [00:11:42] Eli: Right. [00:11:43] Danielle: That's really interesting. I can relate to that. I honestly think that's a big thread of what led me to therapy. I wanted to understand my internal experience more. And I think there's, steps of you're introduced to a concept and then you embody the concept. [00:11:57] you're no longer having to consciously think about it, but really mastery when you're able to teach. And so I think in many ways I wanted to understand that enough to help others, but it began through my own experience and my own curiosity. so I feel like I should mention, How I got connected with you. [00:12:16] I think social media gets a bad rap. it gets a lot of bad press, but thank God for social media. it was in 2012 or 13 and I was watching Shark Week because you always gotta be watching Shark Week. [00:12:27] I was watching Shark Week and the whole episode I was watching was, they were trying to see could large species sharks experience the same temporary paralysis as smaller or baby sharks when they're flipped upside down for study? And I was, of course they're doing all of these great cuts, is it gonna work? [00:12:43] Who knows? Is it gonna work? And of course, they're gonna end it with it working, you're on the edge of your seat. what are they gonna do? What are they gonna do? And they showed a clip of you with a tiger shark in The Bahamas and you were like hand feeding it. And then you stimulated the and you correct me with all the science terms, but you were like stimulating the sout and it just put it in this little trance and then you just tipped it upright. [00:13:06] You just, it stood vertical and you held it just, a shark, a tiger shark. Yeah. I don't know. Was like 16 feet, 15 feet, something like that. [00:13:15] Eli: Possibly. yeah. Anyway, it [00:13:17] Danielle: blew my mind and I think I just made a post about it. I took a picture of my tv. I was like, my mind is blown. [00:13:24] And then some weeks later you commented, thanks so much for the shout out. And that was one of those first moments. That really connected with oh, you can actually connect with the people who were doing things that you think is cool. it just, it really bridged this gap. And then once, of course, I found out what you and your family, 'cause it's a family band, it's like a whole, it's the whole family involved on these excursions. [00:13:46] But as soon as I made that connection, my husband and I signed up to, swim with Whale Sharks with you and your wife, and your son and your daughter. So that's just, I feel like I gotta give credit to, the algorithm and the innerwebs for making that possible. 'cause I don't know if I would've even thought that was a possibility. [00:14:05] Eli: Oh, that's, thanks for sharing that. I, man, that story just,, [00:14:09] Danielle: mm-hmm. [00:14:10] Eli: Wow. Just flooded with memory with that little piece. [00:14:13] Danielle: Yeah, it was, [00:14:14] When I set out to write a book, I only knew two things. One was I wanted to make big feelings, feel less scary and more approachable, and I wanted to bring some lightness to the feelings themselves. What I know to be true as a therapist is that emotions are energy in motion. They have information to tell you to inform the next right step to take and self-doubt, fear, anxiety, live in that space between knowing and not knowing. [00:14:38] The second thing I knew was that I wanted to have fun in the process of making. This thing. The result is this wrestling a walrus for little people with big feelings, beautifully illustrated children's book that has a glossary at the end for some of the bigger feeling words. What this story does in a light and loving way is create context for those relationships. [00:14:58] You can't change those people that you wish would treat you different. The things in life that we cannot control and yet we face that are hard. This book, it's a conversation starter for any littles in your life. Who want to create more safety and love and patience for some of those experiences. So hop one over to the show notes. [00:15:16] You can pick it up@amazon.com, barge de noble.com or my website. I hope that you do because I believe in this little book. I freaking love this little book, and I cannot wait to hear your experience with it. Thanks so much for listening and get back to the episode. [00:15:29] Eli: those are fun, fun shows to do. and there's definitely a lot of benefits to social media, I think. I think it's a great tool. It's a great servant, A terrible master. [00:15:41] That's the best way I can describe it. said. yeah, it is just, there's so many benefits to, connecting with people on the other side of the world to learning about unique places, to learning unique things. it's been one of my most important tools when finding new places for wildlife. [00:15:58] but on the flip side, there's sometimes there's just too much information out there and too much because of it. it's made life difficult for wildlife, difficult for kids, difficult for, it's just. It can be too much. And that's the only downside [00:16:14] Danielle: it's like, how we engage with it. It's an extension of how we are showing up with it, what we're looking for, what interests us. [00:16:21] what I love about how you show up there and how your family shows up there with images is it really, I think, highlights How we operate. we look first and then we listen second. And so you'll capture these images or these videos that seem other worldly and it catches your attention enough. [00:16:43] And if you can hold that attention enough, and it probably helps that your message is consistent of conservation, understanding, connecting with nature. when you can capture someone's attention with an image, just what happened with me? [00:16:56] And then you can maybe engage in a dialogue . And it actually leads me to something, that you mentioned. Something I caught from your website that I really liked this language, that when people experience the wild, they understand and when they understand they care. [00:17:12] And that sounds much like the experience you had swimming with the bull shark. But I wanna know more about that because you, not only through, your media outlets and the content you put out, but you are handholding, you're guiding people into the water or in, ocean and land safaris. [00:17:31] And I wanna understand more about this concept 'cause I think it's true of emotions too. If you can't articulate what you're feeling, then when people don't have language for what they're experiencing, they usually shut down and collapse or they explode with rage. it's gotta go somewhere. [00:17:46] And so when you can create context and language, you also create safety. it seems like with what you're guiding people through, you want them to understand and so that they care. yeah, tell me more. [00:17:59] Eli: Yeah, that has a lot to do with just experiences being out in nature. [00:18:04] I think nature is probably one of the best doctors on the planet. first and foremost, I think that people being around wildlife, people being in the ocean, people being in the wilderness, it replenishes your soul. It recharges your batteries. I think it just makes you a better person. [00:18:21] it's through these connections and meeting wildlife and having people go out there in the wild and see these places and see these animals and they come back and they tell stories, they tell their friends. [00:18:31] And hopefully it's through those kind of connections that, [00:18:36] Conservation comes out of, like at the end of the day, the animals win. That's what you're hoping for is for the animals to win because these are voiceless souls on our planet that share this world with us. and without these people, without these experiences, they're completely vulnerable for lack of better words, to bigger business, to sadly going away, for lack of better words. [00:18:56] Danielle: I think one of the biggest problems that animals have is that they are second class citizens on our planet that we share. And unfortunately, we're seeing our wild places disappear. alarmingly fast, and it's, I think that conservation ecotourism are probably the only tools left that are going to save, what's left of our wild places, what's left of our wildlife, Let's try to get some people on your wildlife safaris. What would be, so if someone's listening who has maybe like me, just from a television screen or from a social media account, wondered, that would be cool, but that could never work for me. I could never do something like that. [00:19:40] That it just, when you're. Physical reality or even your mental reality feels so removed from the wild world. we live in boxed rooms and we're so connected with screens and, my wildlife outside my window is squirrels, cardinals. [00:19:58] Eli: That's perfect. [00:19:58] Danielle: So how would you speak life into someone saying yes to an adventure and where do they begin? [00:20:07] Eli: Oh man. I think it really, first and foremost, it all comes down to your comfort level. I think that there's so many ways for people to reconnect with nature, whether it's hiking, whether it's biking, whether it's going to the beach for the day, watching a sunset. [00:20:23] Just watching a sunset is so powerful. I think it's so important. I don't think we do it enough. I think that is probably the simplest way to remember that you are a part of something bigger and as simple as it sounds, it is so important. now watching a sunset in an amazing place is even 10 times better. [00:20:42] It's that much more powerful. just, trying to reconnect with nature, I think the important part to remind people that yes. The earth is here. She is alive and she breathes and she's got a heartbeat every day. And I think that sunset is her heartbeat. [00:20:55] and it's a great way to see it. [00:20:57] Danielle: I just saw, I think it was nasa, release some footage of a particular, some type of lens on a satellite that was able to actually detect a pulse on the earth. [00:21:08] Like the earth has a heartbeat, but I'm sure the more sciencey people have another way of explaining it. but that it caught my attention. And that feels just right on par with what you're saying when the heart space and the head space connect, I think that's where magic happens. [00:21:22] Like when you can believe it in your mind, but then you experience it in your body, that is, powerful. I think everybody needs to have an experience like getting into the deep ocean or going out into the wild nature. I really think everybody should have that in their life at least once. [00:21:40] But I wanna share a little bit about what my experience was like , with, um, you and your wife swimming with winter parks, because it was there was so much momentum for me built up into what I thought that experience was gonna be because from the time I understood. Little mermaid, Disney to the time I, could name the dolphin body parts and thought that's what I wanted to be like this, there was so much emotional charge and I'm gonna go in the water and I'm gonna swim and it's gonna be great. [00:22:11] And I just had this idea that I'm gonna connect with this shark. We're gonna make eye contact and it's gonna, we're gonna just be on the same vibe. so many expectations that I never expressed, but they were all there. I was, probably trying to keep it cool. But, no,the reality it, the i'll, I will just to skip to the end, the reality far exceeds whatever I imagine. [00:22:31] the first day was me reconciling what I thought it would be and what it really was. Getting on a little charter boat going way out in the middle of the gulf and. Then, I think sturgeon were spawning and that was what was drawing the sharks. And so it made visibility like all of these little eggs were refracting light. [00:22:51] So it was this very sparkly, but also sometimes visibility was funky. And the thing that I couldn't wrap my head around was from the boat. You could look out at the water and see, I don't know, a dozen whale sharks at any given time, but then you get in the water and adrenaline hits and I don't know where they are. [00:23:13] I can't see them. It's just having very little to no experience in the deep water. That was such a jolt and a shock to my system. and then being in the water with an animal, 20 feet, 25 feet, 30 feet long, My nervous system just didn't know how to compute. it was so much, I don't think I'd ever been that tired, ever. [00:23:37] Just, it took so much outta me. And then, day 2, 3, 4, each day got a little easier 'cause I had a better idea of what to expect. And also I didn't, you're covered in fish eggs, you're culvert in fish eggs. So the, the imagination that I would become this mermaid this other worldly creature and have this like soul bond with a whale shark, it wasn't that. [00:23:59] But the real life experience was incredible too. But I just, I don't, and I guess I don't really know where I'm leading with the question, but how do you see when having guided so many people through these moments? Like for somebody who's thinking about. Possibly planning an experience like that? [00:24:20] Like what, how do you prepare what would be good for someone to prepare for what that is like? [00:24:26] Eli: Wow, man. it's so different for everybody. it's just, valid. [00:24:30] Danielle: Valid. Then everybody maybe wants to be [00:24:32] Eli: Yeah. there's a few that want to be mermaids for sure on our trips. I'm not gonna lie. [00:24:38] but yeah, it's just really these animals the whale shark is a great, I call 'em, they're like gateway animals into a bigger world because, when it comes to seeing orcas and whales and of all different species and sharks, a whale shark is possibly, [00:24:55] It's a great ambassador for the species because they're a harmless species. They're just like big giant catfish floating on the surface. and it's a wonderful animal for someone of all ages to experience. it really is, [00:25:10] the whale shark, and I don't know if you had man rays on your trip as well, because Sometimes they show up every other year. The man ray is another, ocean angel. they're just, they're just, the perfect animal for people, for if you wanna. [00:25:24] Experience the ocean. If you wanna experience what life is like in the ocean, in a Disney way, that is the perfect animal to do it with. It's just very safe. it's a phenomenal, way to decide if, you know what? I would like to do more of things like this, or, this was perfect, this was enough. [00:25:43] You know, [00:25:45] Danielle: I wanna go back to something, something that you wrote that I really liked. that reminded me. [00:25:50] Even though we are talking about safari, we're talking about adventure, we're talking about animals, I think the more specific we become in a way, the more universal it becomes. And this quote made me think about a lot of the stuff that you write, it's a Mark Twain quote that travel is fatal to prejudice. [00:26:09] once you see something, you can't unsee something. I wanna speak to the, Why beyond conservation? if I'm not connected to nature, if I'm not connected to animals and I've got enough going on in my life, that conservation, cool, I'm glad someone's taking care of it, but that's not my focus. [00:26:29] What would be a personal selfish reason that would be maybe a call to action that you like? What would be the invitation for somebody individually, not globally, not, for any other reason, like why it could change your life to jump into the deep or get in a Jeep with no top and go drive out to a pride of lions. [00:26:55] what is the reason that you could articulate why somebody should do that? [00:27:00] Eli: I think the wildlife is, they're reminders of where we all came from. we were all of us in our DNA, if you look at the generations of people that have lived on this planet, at some point we were all part of that. We were all out there. [00:27:18] there wasn't this separation between us and our wild places. whether it was the ocean, whether it was a jungle. some of our ancestors had to deal with bears in their front porch. some of our ancestors had to deal with lions walking through camp. [00:27:34] that's something that we have either. Blocked out or forgotten. Obviously we've forgotten just because of generations of separation from it. But we are all part of that. We are all part of this world. beyond our cars and our homes and our clothes, we are part of nature a hundred percent. [00:27:55] We've forgotten this. And I think these are great reminders to remind us, Hey, this is where we all come from. This is, we're not separated from these things. we are very much a part of these things. And if anything, there are so many species that, although they're no longer, relevant in our world, they're so important for our world, not only as reminders, but as part of this giant balance, because we're all connected in some way, in some form. [00:28:23] we're all for lack of better, we're all one. And I think it's important. To remind people that, like we, we need to stay connected. We need to protect these animals because, they're much a part of this earth as we are. and we have to remind people that they're there yeah, that, that's, [00:28:44] This is our home. This is their home. This is our home. [00:28:47] Danielle: And I also, what I'm hearing too, it's they, when you're in communion with nature, you become more in touch with, or in tune with your own natural rhythm, your own self. There's, you might actually, know him or, 'cause I would imagine the community, like the pool you're in terms of career is probably small, I'm just guessing. [00:29:07] But, Boyd Verdi, he's from South Africa, he wrote The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life He has a property in South Africa called Alose. It was a game preserved. Okay. Yeah. Yes, I, and but his work in that book is basically teaching people to track wild animals, helps them become more in touch with the rhythms of nature. [00:29:29] And by, not by default, but through becoming more in tune with tracking nature, you, your track, like your path. So I think so many of the clients I attract are struggling with anxiety, depression, and burnout. And I think a lot of the confusion and self doubt and, head trash is also rooted in, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. [00:29:54] It's that maybe they don't articulate it like that, but it's experienced that way of just, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As opposed to, I wanna know what I'm called to do. I wanna know what I'm meant to do or what I want to do. my dog never questions when she's hungry, when she's tired, like she is completely embodied because she doesn't have this giant brain getting in her way of everything. [00:30:19] And I love hearing you talk about the more in tune you are with nature, you are reminded that you are nature too. [00:30:27] Eli: it's it's so important for people to stay connected to nature and it's getting worse. I think it's just part of I. [00:30:35] Part of what I feel is that they're completely pulling us away from it. I think that unhealthy feeling, I remember having it as a growing up. I remember there was many times where I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know, what my calling was but I always just, I remember standing there and just looking around saying, something's wrong. [00:31:00] I don't belong here. [00:31:01] Danielle: that's something's wrong. the language I like to use. with clients is, that's usually what gets people into an appointment with me first. It's when I say it's like your smoke detector's going off. 'cause your smoke detector can't tell the difference between burning toast or bacon and a fire in some part of your house, but it's just beeping 'cause it senses smoke, something's wrong. [00:31:20] And so I think a lot of times getting that emotional awareness or that clarity starts with something's wrong and then you sit with that. But then the discomfort, it's like I think about that story with you and the bull shark the first time it's, I either need to chase it and funnel down with it or I need to run away from it. [00:31:40] And I think that tension is what happens every time we hit a big emotion or a fork in the road or we're at a growth edge, we're about to change. but I think that is the. Following the path of curiosity is almost always what leads you down to some new sense of understanding, about yourself or the world. [00:32:00] I wanna, do you have, of all of the experiences you've led other people through, do you have It could be one, it could be more than one, it might even be with a member of your family, but have you seen, like shifts happen in people that just observed? 'cause I have over the years seen many powerful shifts happen in sessions, but it's such an intimate thing, but where you're out in the wild with someone, are there any moments that stand out to you of just being like, whoa, this person is different, or this person is really having an experience here? [00:32:35] Eli: Yeah. I have this one gentleman who. would do adventures. he would do travel on his own, and then he went on one of our trips a very successful, businessman. and I could see that this was just something he was doing for like, and that's interesting. [00:32:54] [00:32:54] Danielle: on [00:32:54] Eli: That's so interesting. Yeah. He was, he was on the trip And he was there to experience the animal, but it was almost like a science project, it wasn't like it was super into the animal. Like he was intellectualizing it. he was, it was like, it wasn't like [00:33:11] a bucket list. It was like, okay, I'm on this journey of I'm gonna photograph wildlife. Now, I've been photographing these other things and I'm gonna photograph wildlife now. we went out there, he had the experience and it was almost like this. [00:33:25] Yeah. You could feel the shift of just now I get it. oh, I got a goosebump thinking about it. Yeah. it was like now. Okay, okay. You know, it was, it was, [00:33:35] Danielle: it was like his body, like it kicked on. [00:33:38] Eli: Yeah. something inside him came alive [00:33:41] And it was just like more. And it was a completely different, more than when he first started and it was something [00:33:47] Danielle: beside him came alive. That gave me chills. I almost wonder if it's the distinction of when you were describing a sunset, like the difference between driving in your car and you're getting somewhere as the sun happens to be going down and you're doing a million other things versus watching a sunset and taking it in. [00:34:08] So not being just a passive observer, but being a present participant in the moment. [00:34:14] Eli: Yeah. Purposely trying to watch, I'm going to this spot because I want to see the sunset, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop to put my phone down and I'm gonna watch the sunset. Even if you take your phone, you know you're watching it through your phone as you wanna record it, because that's what we do now. [00:34:31] just that act alone of purposely trying to do that is significant. It is life changing to sometimes for some people. [00:34:38] Danielle: That's awesome. that was a really good answer. I wanna hear a little bit more. So I was circling back, you were starting to connect how that first dive, you were scuba diving, you saw the bull shark, you were swimming up to the surface, and then you almost started to shift to how that led you down this path. [00:34:57] I wanna go back to that and maybe if I could jump forward a little bit more in your story. You created Shark Diver Magazine in 2003, and you said you had 25 publications and then it really, the business model really shifted to your excursions. I wanna know more about, deciding to launch a magazine that sounds so ambitious, 25. [00:35:21] me trying to put a blog out sometimes feels like a real effort. but 25 publications is no small thing. And then you shifted it to excursions. it's one thing to do something yourself as a hobbyist or as an enthusiast, but you're leading people with all varying degrees of experience. [00:35:40] Some people that wanna be, mermaids and you're leading all types of people from all over the world on these trips and you're dealing with a lot of personalities. I would love to know more about how you made that shift from the magazine into leading your safaris. [00:35:55] Eli: Yeah, it was, so I started the magazine, in 2003. I didn't know anything about publishing. I didn't know anything about photography. I didn't know. Anybody in the business. And I had never really written anything outside of my journals before. [00:36:14] Danielle: So it was just like, I am, I'm so excited by this. [00:36:16] You're like, I am gonna build a rocket ship, but I don't have an engineering degree. I don't understand the mechanics. and I've never flown on a plane, but I'm gonna build a rocket ship. [00:36:25] Eli: what I did. Yeah. So I just, I went all in. I've always had a love affair with magazines as far as, any sport that I was into. [00:36:34] Had a magazine dedicated to it with mountain biking, surfing, rock climbing, scuba diving. but there was nothing dedicated to shark diving. And that's the area that I fell in love with. And I said, here's my, and I really was trying to find. A vehicle. And a way to get into the industry, to make a name for myself, coming from Landlock, Texas. [00:36:54] there was, this was my way in. This was an opportunity. And this is all pre-social media, so it was all from scratch and trying to create this business. And, yeah, we did it for eight years. I published 25 issues and it was a lot of fun. And it was, a lot of laying in bed going, what the hell did I do? [00:37:14] Why did I do this to myself? And, this is crazy. And it was fueled by also, I, the first pub, the first magazine I came out with, a family friend. I overheard him in the distance, say I wonder if it's gonna be around in a year. And that, so I wrote those words down and I put it in my office. [00:37:36] and that, inspired me to make it to the first year it was a, and then after that, I made it to the second and the third. it was just this labor of love. This, chance for me to tell stories, chance for me to share this world with people. [00:37:50] because, when I first started and when I was looking through the books, it really felt like, , a, a club. And it really felt more like a researcher's club more than anything else. It was like, the guys who had access to all these amazing places were usually the scientists, the shark scientists, the shark researchers. [00:38:06] And it really didn't feel like it was open to guys like me. And so this is the world that I wanted to create. I wanted to create a world where it was open to. Sharks were accessible to the world. And that's what I wanted to do with this magazine. and what I wanted to do with my storytelling is invite everybody who was really interested in sharks like myself and help them find places where they could dive with these animals and read stories from fellow people like myself that were not all scientists, we're not all research. [00:38:36] yeah. So that was the idea. That was what I really wanted to do when I started the magazine. And then, trying to get advertisers to be interested in us when we had zero subscribers and no real history, and it was just like, mm-hmm. That was an impossible feat. So I don't know where I came up with the idea. [00:38:54] Somebody either shared that idea with me or I was doing my research. I just decided to try to organize, oh, I know what it was. It was one of my potential sponsors asking me to organize a trip. And that's what started the opportunities is it's a great way to raise money. [00:39:12] If I can get people to travel with us, we can use that money to help publish the magazine. Yeah. And that's what the first trips were. So May I ran our first expedition to North Carolina for Sand Tiger Sharks in May of 2003. So that first year coming out of the box, we, we brought some people and we just started doing that. [00:39:32] So from the first year we organized those trips, and then we just, it just kept going. and it was, and it ended up being the way I funded the magazine for the first eight years. I didn't, after that I really didn't chase sponsors very much because I just didn't like, I'd go to a travel show. [00:39:48] And then we, and. It would be, I would end up being that magazine guy that's just trying to get money from me. Yeah. And I didn't like that feeling at all. So I just said, you know what, I don't need to do this. this is what the trips are about. It's reader sponsored, and I can do whatever I want with a magazine. [00:40:04] I can tell the stories the way I want to tell 'em. and so that's what I did. [00:40:08] Danielle: I think because we've all been sold so many different times through so many different channels, it's like you can feel it when it's coming at you. [00:40:15] And nobody likes that. So it's just so much this is what it is, this is what we're doing, this is what I like. gosh, having come from different sales backgrounds and have family and my husband who's in sales, it's like when a sale happens, you're really just offering information. [00:40:31] It's I don't, my guess is you're not selling people ongoing on your trips, right? People are already interested. You're giving them the information and then that's when they say yes. But you're not going out selling people on doing it. I feel like I'm trying to do that for you. 'cause I just think more people need to do it. [00:40:46] You are very intentionally not doing that. I want to acknowledge the predator myth, I found it really interesting that you were passionate about dispelling the predator myth. I wanna understand that better because obviously we all know how sharks are portrayed. [00:41:01] we've seen all those things. but I think the ocean, deep ocean and what we fear in the ocean, it correlates to emotions, big, uncomfortable feelings. I don't think it's called a therapy myth, but there has to be something terribly wrong to seek that type of help or seek that type of guidance. [00:41:20] and I wanna know more in your world, in your space, what is the predator myth and what do you want people to know? [00:41:28] Eli: Oh, for me its exactly what I was brought up believing about sharks is just that, sharks are mindless monsters and they're just out to get you. [00:41:37] And the moment you step in the ocean, there's gonna be a shark down there. And, I've heard this. My entire life that, oh, I'll never jump off a boat into the ocean because there's just sharks waiting. [00:41:47] Danielle: [00:41:47] Eli: me, and it's completely opposite. I really wish that if I just went out into the ocean, jumped off a boat and there'd be a bunch of sharks there, it's just not the reality. [00:41:58] It takes so much work to find these animals. It takes a lot of effort and usually the people That get lucky and say, oh look, there's a great white under my boat. they're the ones who don't wanna see sharks. the people that wanna see sharks like a great white under their boat, never get to see a great white under their boat. [00:42:15] that's just the way nature works. But, yeah, for me it was more about, trying to help people pass this prejudice, pass this belief system that is ingrained in us, that's actually probably ingrained in our DNA [00:42:27] So it's very much ingrained in all of us from the beginning. And the more I understood sharks, the more I wanted to get rid of that stigma as best I could. Yeah. I started doing a lot of, Talks at schools and helping kids with, sharing, what I know about sharks, and I've through the years, really figured out what works and what doesn't. [00:42:48] And I used to show pictures of sharks and try to get people to dispel their fear with just a picture of shark, but in their mind, it's still a shark. [00:42:57] But when I started sharing videos of myself with a shark in my arms and giving a back rub and rolling them upside down and just, like a shark sticking his face between my knees so I could scratch his back. [00:43:10] and showing these kids these images and showing these kids that, this other side, and you could see it, you see it in the teachers. they're just like, wait. Mm-hmm. Wait, what? Wait, what? It's like you wake them up, you wake up something primal in them and say, wait, that's possible. [00:43:24] Danielle: yes. That you just said it, 'cause I think that you don't have to prove to someone what you're saying is true, but what you're showing them is it's possible. I think it's when you don't believe it's possible, that's when people freeze or shut down or wanna give up or stop. [00:43:39] And it's when we're afraid we want control, we want contracts, we want guarantees, we want promises, we need something ironclad. But, there is no guarantee. But knowing that, there's something possible that's really, yeah. I feel that really deeply. Yeah. you're igniting possibility in people. [00:43:58] It, you also just reminded me too, I love Leopard Sharks. I've never swam with them, but, I love leopard Sharks and I feel like that. That shark more than any other, you see them almost act like little dogs, like just anyone listening, just Google videos of like leopard shark pups. And they swear, they just act like dogs. [00:44:14] So cute down. They're beautiful. What is the, what do you think is the biggest gap in our understanding of not just predators, but marine life, wildlife? what's our biggest gap in understanding? [00:44:29] Eli: I think it's disconnect. like you said earlier, it's, oh, I'm glad somebody out there is doing it. [00:44:34] that kind of thing. It's it's not for me. I got too many things I'm doing in my life, my life is a mess, Lack of empathy for something. and that has to do with disconnect because it's more of, it's talking about the shark, [00:44:46] it's one thing to talk about, it's another thing for people to see it. And, in them, me, roll the tiger. just like open that up in your mind, the fascination in your mind of oh wow, like I didn't even know this was a thing. Or if it's even possible. And that's what I've tried to do [00:45:01] predators and with crocodiles and anacondas and all the other animals that I dive with is just showing the other side of these animals and, their place in the world And how important they are. And it's not just, when we jump in the water with an anaconda and if, people are so surprised to know that it's. [00:45:18] the Anaconda is terrified and all he's trying to do is hide from us. So you're looking at a 18 foot, 20 foot long snake. the moment I jump in the water and he's just like, where do I hide? it's like he's completely terrified of my presence. [00:45:32] [00:45:32] Danielle: the crocodile, those images just, everyone should visit Eli's, social media channels as soon as you, you stop listening to this episode, just go scroll through and look. But the crocodile one, those, late night scrolling, when I see one of those images that stops me in my tracks, and I thought I was pretty open-minded with nature, but man, that, that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. [00:45:54] That's wild. [00:45:56] Eli: I used to say Crocs of the new Sharks. Okay, sure. I feel that makes sense. So yeah, because for years, right? when I started the magazine in 2003, it was still Steve Irwin. Mm-hmm. The late great Steve Irwin was still diving with Tiger Sharks in a cage. [00:46:11] on his show, he was showing, that diving with them in a cage. so for years they're like,it's impossible to dive with tigers outside of a cage. Then, in The Bahamas and Fiji, they're diving with tigers outside the cage and they're like, you can do it during the day, but you can't do it at night. [00:46:27] So we started diving with tigers at night, and then they're like, you can do that with a tiger, but you can't do it with a great white. Yeah, we're diving outside the cage with great whites. And so, I mean, it was just like, well, you could do it with sharks, but you can't do it with crocodiles. [00:46:39] Danielle: You're right. You're right. It's the same prejudice, just moving into a different face. [00:46:44] Eli: Right. Oh, interesting. The same thing with orcas too. Like you can, when they're like, you can't swim with an orca. we started swimming with orcas and then, you can do it with these, but you can't do it with the pelagic orcas because, they're a lot more aggressive and they eat sea lions. [00:46:56] And so we're diving with those species too. it's just they're always trying to find, and it's usually people who don't swim with these animals that are creating the ideas that people believe, [00:47:07] Danielle: you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's like the people that aren't the mechanics or the one trying to pump the brakes. [00:47:12] Um, I, so I saw on your social media just this morning that you said the duck bill platypus is your unicorn. Yes. That was, it wasn't intended to be a question, but I have to ask, why is the Depa plat picture your unicorn [00:47:24] Eli: as a kid? I, that was one of the first most exotic animals I had ever seen. [00:47:31] Danielle: Yeah. [00:47:31] Eli: This book in second grade, that I read about the platypus and it was, the fact that it lays eggs and that it's got a duck bill and it looks like a beaver, but it's not. and it was just a fascination was born in that moment. And it was something that like, I have to see this animal. [00:47:50] Like I just have to, so it's always been, it's been my unicorn. I have, I'm ashamed to say I've never been to Australia. [00:47:57] But as soon as I do, that is like task number one. I gotta see a platypus like this. Okay. [00:48:03] Danielle: that was gonna be my follow up question because I embarrassingly don't know where the poses live. So I was gonna ask you where would one, find one. Okay. So Australia. Perfect. I actually think there's a couple of Australian listeners. I don't know where in Australia. I just see this map and wherever it's highlighted that shows where people have downloaded episodes. [00:48:20] So anyone in Australia don't miss your opportunity to catch a platypus because Eli's gonna come snap some photos. Okay. So we're nearing the end and I'm really excited to lay out the don't cut your own bangs moment with you. 'cause I have a feeling you probably have too many that could just fill up its own episode. [00:48:41] But I would love to know what a don't cut your own bang moment is for you. [00:48:45] Eli: I spent a big part of my youth trying to become a professional bull writer growing up in Texas. What. [00:48:57] Danielle: Okay. Okay. This is good. This is already, this is already one of the top two. Okay. Go on. [00:49:01] Eli: So I wanted to be a world champion bull rider. [00:49:04] I ate, drank, dream, slept, dreamed bull riding. I was in love with the sport. [00:49:09] And it was during, I was working on my pro permit when I cracked my hip at a show and I gave myself three months to heal. And it was during that time, one of my best friends got a scuba diving certification and he was telling me about it. [00:49:25] So I had three months off. So I took the time to get my scuba certification. [00:49:30] Danielle: After I got scuba certified, I went, I just wanna, I just wanna put a brief pause. So your time off was actually you healing a fractured hip. You weren't. Oh, okay. So in your off time with a fractured hip, you got your scuba certification? [00:49:45] Eli: Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay. Cool. Okay, go on, go on. [00:49:51] So it was on that, on that bowl that I, when I cracked my hip, I got, I got scuba certified. I went to Kmel, I saw a shark. I came back from that adventure. I was, I went to my next rodeo and I was behind the chutes. And I fell off my bowl and all I had, I usually would throw a fit. When I would buck off, I would just, so angry at myself. [00:50:15] But off, after that ride, I was behind the chutes and I had Caribbean music, blue water, white sand sharks floating through my mind. I was like, I'm done. I'm going shark diving. And, so not becoming a professional bull rider was the best thing that never happened to me. [00:50:34] Danielle: Oh, that is so, that is good. [00:50:39] And I feel like those, those moments, that perspective is unfortunately earned in hindsight. It's so hard to trust in those moments when you're down with a fractured hip or saying goodbye to an old dream, feeling like you're starting over. That is hard. I mean, in your magazine was that too? But you can even see now in the full expression of what your business is, how learning to tell stories, learning to create a narrative, learning to take images and then not just take images that are clear and focus, but that are also telling a visual story. [00:51:18] And you've passed that on to your daughter who, she's a wildlife photographer in the making. I mean she is and is continuing to be, but it's like all of those steps. But it's, all of those things led to the next thing, but I think it only could have, because you followed the curiosity as opposed to maybe drowning in what you were losing. [00:51:41] You allowed yourself to become curious about where you wanted to go. And I think that's a really remarkable quality. That's a good, that's a great emotionally resilient quality. [00:51:52] Eli: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, thanks. I just, uh, yeah. It was, it was, that was a huge chunk of my life that I just I gave up, but it felt right. [00:52:02] It felt right. And it was just like, that's why I think maybe that. Let's see if he's still around in a year. Doing that came from just because I was like, okay, he is gonna be a bull rider now. He is gonna be a shark diver. [00:52:15] Danielle: Yes. my background was on ballroom dance. I taught, before that I did commercial acting. [00:52:20] my plan was to move to la I had a very similar, about face, very big pivot and started teaching ballroom dance. Did that for about seven years. And I just felt that pressure where I'm about to grow outta my shell. I knew it was not this, but I wasn't crystal clear on what that was. [00:52:38] I just knew not this. And so little step by little step, I found my way in grad school and I was, about 11 years older than every other person in that particular class when I decided to switch careers and do what I'm doing now. But yeah, I always appreciate when people can share those moments like that. [00:52:58] 'cause I think what I'm doing is trying to build up a bank of stories that would've comforted those versions of me that was just so terrified about to do something new. . [00:53:08] This was so exciting. Thank you for being here. I'm excited for everybody to, check out your account, look at all your images, sign up for a trip, just take the leap, put a deposit down on an adventure. [00:53:22] Just scroll through. Pick an animal that terrifies you and just say yes to that one. I can't wait for everybody to hear this. Awesome. Thank you so much. [00:53:30] Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode of Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did recording it, because this in so many ways was a dream come true if you couldn't tell by the episode itself. I wanna leave you with , a quote that I pulled from Eli that was said in the episode, but really is the heart of what this episode is, as well as what I hope to bring to every episode. [00:53:55] When people experience the wild, they understand and when they understand they care If you replace the wild with the self. When people experience the self, they understand and when they understand they care. The more I understand my own emotional landscape, the more equipped and empowered I feel to navigate it. [00:54:22] The more empathetic, the more compassionate, the more connected I feel with the people in my life. The people who I believe have wronged me with my past. I feel more hopeful for my future. That connection to the self, our essential self or nature, the natural world around us is I think what makes us unique in the experience we get to have on this planet. [00:54:47] So if you haven't already decided you're gonna book your adventure, this might be your call. Whether that adventure is outside your window looking at a sunset, [00:54:58] but I want that for you. I want that for me, and I think we all deserve to have that kind of magic. We can make it if we want it. Thank you for tuning in this week. I look forward to catching you next time, and as always, I hope you continue to have a wonderful day. [00:55:11]
7/9 審判日進入倒數，大而美麗法案、聯準會降息態度、以及各國關稅談判再度引起市場關注，法人與機構都在關心著哪些議題？ 本集邀請研究副總監 Vivianna 來聊聊，在他外出演講時，專業人士都提出了哪些問題？法人與機構在預習哪些重點？
Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors returns to continue his discussion with Kiera about the future of dentistry, including options aside from DSOs. The question a practice owner should ask themself, Kiera and Ryan say, is what that individual wants out of their life — then consider the best platform to get you there. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is going to be part two of mine and Ryan Isaac's conversation where we're digging into DSOs to sell to not to sell, all of that. And I truly am so excited for you guys here, part two. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast. Kiera Dent (00:17) why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence? and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up. Ryan Isaac (00:33) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Kiera Dent (00:58) still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno, Nevada. Ryan Isaac (01:03) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Same, okay. Okay. Yes. No, these are the questions. You're totally influential. I think it's just in the opposite direction. ⁓ I don't think we can influence private equity. Private equity is ruthless in every industry. They don't. It feels dirty. It feels dirty. And I have a question for you, but I just want to say really fast. ⁓ I do feel like, yes. Kiera Dent (01:30) It's dirty. It's dirty. Is there a way though, Brian, you don't finance better than me. Is there a way that there could become dentists that could become in private equity where they own it? Because once you, there's no way to insulate, you don't think. Because once you get to that level, you just, I mean, I've had. Ryan Isaac (01:44) Yeah, but they'll do the same thing. I mean, they'll want the same thing. Now, money's money. It's why capitalism runs the world. mean, that's why, you know, it's like why it influences politics and money and business runs the world, you know? ⁓ Okay, hold on. There's so many good things here. Number one would be not every group will be a DSO, private equity backed DSO. And you know, many, many ⁓ clients and just dentists around the country who will end up being owners of Kiera Dent (02:05) Okay. Ryan Isaac (02:19) 20, 50, 100 group practices that will stay privately held and ran by owner doctors. That will be a chunk of this ⁓ group practice ⁓ takeover. So in that space, the influence can still be huge. ⁓ I think the chance to influence the integrity of private practice is in those who don't sell to DSOs. I think it's in the industry, educated in influencing the industry for people who aren't going to sell and who are going to maintain control. Now, I do think that in the future, more and more dentists will be in a group. ⁓ are probably, yeah, be fewer and I can see why it would make sense to do that. There would probably be fewer and fewer people with just solo doc, solo location practices. know, some towns and rural places, that would be hard to do. Kiera Dent (02:47) Mm-hmm. I do too. Ryan Isaac (03:15) So I think you're Dorothy, is that what you said? I'm Dorothy. I think that is possible, not with private equity, but with still the owner doctors that still exist and the group practices that are ran by dentists, not private equity back. I think the influence is still gonna be, I mean, if you took the projections of what will stay private, Kiera Dent (03:20) Yeah, hi. I agree. Ryan Isaac (03:40) and then the chunk of the group stuff that'll be non DSO non-corporate, that's still got to be 40, 50 % of the industry eventually. Kiera Dent (03:49) I would think so. I mean, look at it right now. There's corporate dentistry within. And again, there's nothing wrong with any, because I have clients that are in corporate dentistry that run their practices like private. They take care of their teams. So it's one of those things I still think, like even if you are, and that's another way that we can influence this, if you are part of a private equity-backed DSO, you can still influence your practice. You're still the dentist working in the practice. You can still run culture. You can still run change. Ryan Isaac (03:59) Totally. Absolutely. Yes. and hit it. Kiera Dent (04:16) ⁓ I know the doctors I have, they're part of a very large group corporate and things that we have done together, like I work with them, they're my only corporate practice that I work with, but we have literally influenced the top tier CEO. They've asked what these offices are doing differently. They're taking things that I've helped bring into the practice and they've asked like, what's changed in your practice? Like we hired this girl who teaches us to run it like private practice. Their culture's incredible. We're even right now petitioning up to the top people because they're writing off things that you can actually bill out to insurance that they're making them write off when it's like, actually, no, we can bill it as a non covered service and actually have the patients cover. So I'm like, I do still think whether you're in private equity, but I think you've got to be a strong enough doctor where you advocate for the rights of your patients and the rights of your practice. And I'm super proud of my client who does this because her and her husband, they go to bat and they're like, they write some pretty direct emails to the CEO of this and say like, hey, and they're a big enough force. Cause I mean, Ryan Isaac (04:55) Mm. Yes. huh. Kiera Dent (05:15) They're the top tier practice in their area. have them making like, we are adding multiple millions to their offices every single year. But I'm like, I think that's also how dentists, even if you're in private equity, even if you're in group practices, I think at the end of the day, are clinicians and clinic, like you are, you are the product. And I think that they have, I think dentists have more say than they might realize that they do to influence the industry and keep it more positive and more ethical than it could be otherwise. Ryan Isaac (05:38) Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree with that. We all know people who are in those group models that are still running like amazing, almost privately held practices. The other thing that's interesting that's different than medical, because it always gets compared to the medical field consolidation that happened, is medicine has a distinct difference and advantage in that they have hospital systems where gigantic campuses where they can house hundreds of doctors in one place, right? It's just not that's not a thing in dentistry, which I think will will force it to stay a little unique, different than medical, because you can never have a giant campus building with, you know, 400 dentists. Yeah, like 500. I mean, I don't know. I guess never say never some some group might invent that and you know, like the dental campus of the city. I don't know. Yes, it's possible. But it seems a lot less likely. Yeah. Kiera Dent (06:18) Mm-hmm. 500 off, you imagine? Say hi. I mean, dental schools have a lot, but I'm like, okay, I think the piece that would be really hard is to justify 500 beds, like 500 ops. You've got your hygiene that's cranking. So you gotta have, in a 500 bed, would need, like, we can only see 500 patients a day. so you can only see if it's 500 a day, that's how many patients you could actually see. I don't think that would be a full city, and we're basically taking over whole city. Ryan Isaac (06:55) Yeah. No. Yeah. Kiera Dent (07:03) And then you might not be pulling out that much dentistry outside of all of that to be able to fill that many doctors in their schedules. Cause so much of it's hygiene run, it's like a two to one ratio that I think that would be the zone. ⁓ Ryan Isaac (07:07) No. I love this analysis. Yeah, I couldn't go that far, but there you go. That's exactly right. So I do think it'll stay different enough in nature because of that. ⁓ And yeah, I, to go back to the, love your question. We've been kicking this around a lot in dentists advisors and I want to reiterate the same thing. There's no judgment here. There's no right or wrong. For some people, it's absolutely the best decision to exit with the DSO and just find the right one. Take your time. ⁓ Kiera Dent (07:19) There you go. I agree. Ryan Isaac (07:43) to go through the deals with someone who really knows what deals look like, not just a friend or a CPA unless that CPA is looking at hundreds of deals. Call Brandon, right? Kiera Dent (07:51) Seriously, I'm like, why? He's got like every flavor of ice cream available of DSOs for you. And like, what are your goals with your financial advisor? What do you need to retire? And then you make sure that the deal is going to actually get you that because like you said, Ryan, it's your greatest asset. And that's where to me, it breaks my heart when people do this. And I was actually, when we were talking about assets, ⁓ there was a stress test portfolio that I heard at a conference that I thought was really awesome that I think about often. so thinking about when you said like, we're investing into this stock. Ryan Isaac (07:59) Yeah. That's it. Kiera Dent (08:20) portfolio, like we're basically putting so much of our biggest asset and so many of our dollars into one single stock. And they said, just stress test your portfolio. If my two biggest portions of my portfolio. Okay. So the two biggest portions right now. And I think about this often, even you and me, Ryan, if those two asset classes dropped yesterday, cause I always do like, if they dropped tomorrow and you're like, well, I'd freaking move things. No, if it dropped yesterday, so there's nothing you could do. Do you have the staying power for things to recover? So like, I don't need to liquidate my assets. Ryan Isaac (08:24) in one single, yeah. Mm. Kiera Dent (08:50) can still have income from our other assets and buying assets that are down. So looking at that, and I think about that often, like, so if your biggest ones are in the stock market and in your DSO and both of those dropped yesterday, like that's all that's gone. Could you still be okay? And if not, maybe look at other ways to diversify that portfolio. I'm not an advisor, Ryan. So you speak to like, if you agree or disagree on that, because that's my thoughts on it. Ryan Isaac (09:11) Yeah. Although yeah, no, that's a really ⁓ logical way to look at stress testing something. If the stock market disappeared as a whole yesterday, all, yeah, well, we just, every publicly traded company in the entire world would be gone simultaneously. We would all be in so much trouble. Like we just wouldn't have cell phone service or gasoline or, you know, like a million things. Yeah, for a minute. Kiera Dent (09:26) You say that we're all gonna go to the apocalypse, like. Good thing you're by the ocean. You at least have a good time there, Ryan. I need to get out of Reno, Nevada for that one year fact alone. Ryan Isaac (09:44) Yeah, yeah. For me, yeah, it would work for a minute, but then we would have no grocery chains, there would be no shipping distribution, there'd be no trucking, there would be no like, you know, we'd be done within like a week. You know what I mean? So, but you're the logic of it is true. It's almost like what if we just looked at stress testing a deal, you know, and you said there's usually three parts in a DSO deal, there's the cash up front, there's usually some kind of earned back, or bonus system, that's usually a smaller piece. And then there's the equity piece. And if one of those didn't exist, if one of those dropped off, what would this deal look like? And I think the question we have to ask is if the equity didn't hit, you know, if they don't get returns on multiples on their equity, like they're projecting and always, of course, the projections are huge, you know, always, always. If this does not come in like you expect, let's just say it's half of what they expected that which would be probably fair to say, or it's all you do is get your money back one day. Kiera Dent (10:32) always. Ryan Isaac (10:43) What does this now look like to you? Is this a survivable thing? And is this even something you would be interested in doing? But again, you said this before, I've been saying this, go talk to someone who knows what these deals look like, like Brandon. I'll give you an example. with a client a few weeks ago who had an offer. They were getting a lot of pressure from the group where this came from. They were kind of involved in like, well, I won't even say it. It was just a group of people of other dentists that were kind of pooling practices together. And this buyer, Kiera Dent (10:50) you Ryan Isaac (11:14) just a lot of pressure, a lot of hype, right? A lot of hype. And the deal as the details started coming through started smelling really weird. And even he was just like, I don't know. He talked to Brandon for 30 minutes and it became so obvious so quickly how bad this deal was. And now he's pushing the brakes a little bit. He's going to ramp up his profitability, work on the practices some more. He still wants to consider a sale, which is great with that's fine if that's still what you want to do. Kiera Dent (11:38) Yep. Ryan Isaac (11:43) But I think that conversation probably just saved him millions of dollars, literally in 30 minutes of conversation. So just talk to somebody, please, about these deals. There's every flavor out there. There's so many ways that they can twist and bend these things. And yeah, there's just a lot of moving pieces in there. So just be careful. Yeah, just talk to someone. Be careful. Kiera Dent (12:02) I would like, and what you said, also think like, make sure that you're also selling it for top dollar. This is something I really love about working with you guys, working with clients is if we know that there's a sell on the horizon, think one of the best things you can do is truly like pulling a consultant, pulling somebody. And like I was talking to a doctor the other day and they're like, KK, we want you to come in and help us like with our systems, but they're selling in a year. And I was like, well, respectfully as your consultant, I'm not going to sit here and deal with systems. Ryan Isaac (12:13) Yes. Please. Kiera Dent (12:31) If you're selling to a DSO, odds are a lot of those systems they're gonna bring into you anyway. Our best thing we can do is make your life easy right now, boost your production, reduce your overhead, increase your EBITDA so you get top dollar on the sale while making it like amazing. Like we'll still put systems into place. We'll still take care of your hot fires with your team right now. But like, why not go, it's like, if I know I'm selling my house in a year and if I did a few things to make it exponentially higher. Ryan Isaac (12:32) . Yeah. Kiera Dent (12:56) in the next year of my sell, why would I not do that now? And for us, it's not even like a house where I'm just painting the walls. We're literally boosting your production. We're pushing your overhead down. We're helping your whole team get on board for that. So that way your asset really is the best asset you can get. And we're not doing it in a hard way. So I know it feels like a push, but just know Dental A Team's way is ease. So it's like, it's going to be an exponential growth for you, but with like ridiculous ease. And most of our clients, we just did a huge study across the board of hundreds of our clients. Ryan Isaac (13:13) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (13:24) And on average, they're seeing a 30 % increase in their production and a reduction in their overhead within their first three to six months of working with us. So like even if you have a year or two year timeline, that right there, so getting the right deal, making sure you're selling it at top, like squeezing the juice out of every single thing we possibly can get out of your practice. ⁓ But then also I feel like what happens in that scenario, Ryan, I see it all the time, is when we come in and we like powerhouse it up with them. Ryan Isaac (13:34) Thank Kiera Dent (13:51) They're like, wow, I'm working two days a week and I would make what this DSO was going to offer me and I don't even have to work. Why would I get rid of this practice right now to the DSO? That happens more than I can tell you because it's like they didn't realize it could happen this way. And I'm like, just tell me what you want. Like you want the DSO, you want to work two days. Why don't we build you that right now and like keep the asset that you've got and sell it when you want, which is going to make you the same amount of money as the DSO, but it's on your terms. Ryan Isaac (13:59) Yes. Yep. all the time. Kiera Dent (14:20) So I think that like people don't realize that you can have the benefits of the DSO today. I think the only piece you can't have like, but I give air quotes on can't is like, you still are an owner, but I'm like, there's literally ways for you to sell to partners, have it pay out to you. And you can actually get rid of that ownership piece if you don't want it ⁓ and still have it be the same type of a deal. I think like, don't forget that there's also deals outside of DSOs that you can do internally. ⁓ Ryan Isaac (14:26) Yep. Kiera Dent (14:48) but it is shocking Ryan how many practice, like I had a doctor and he's like, Kara, I'm going to get 5 million for my practice on this. And I was like, rock on in two years, we literally will make you 5 million net post-tax in two years. was like, literally, and that's net that's post-tax like in two years. I was like, this is not a good deal for you financially if you're going after the financial dollar. So I think just be smart with how you look at this because I don't know, right. And you do it to me all the time. You're like, Kara, yeah, go sell. Ryan Isaac (14:58) That's what you're make in two years of income. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (15:17) but you can also just get the life you want and have your practice and your business run differently, why not consider that scenario too? So I think. Ryan Isaac (15:19) Yeah. Yeah, I'm, yeah, okay. Sorry, finish your thought. I just like what you just said. I just love that. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna ask you this exact thing. I was gonna say, Kiera, aren't there ways someone could step back and pause and say, why am I interested in selling to a DSO and then just try to create it through the work you guys do easily? Kiera Dent (15:27) Okay, so yeah, take it. 100 % and right you do it to me all the time. You're like Kiera. Well, what would you want your life to look like if you were to sell it? I'm like, I would care if you stopped if you sold what would your life look like? And I'm like, I do this. I do this. I do this. You're like, all right, then why don't we just make your business do that today? I don't think people realize how like you can manipulate your business to truly support the life, the finances, everything you want. Like it's shocking. I'm like just basically give me the North Star and we will manipulate the entire thing for you. Ryan Isaac (15:59) Just do it. Yeah. Yeah. Kiera Dent (16:14) in ways you didn't even know. like, I need Ryan to know our North Star where we need to get. Then we break it down to your, like what lifestyle you want to have. And then we just crank, like, it's like shake and bake. It's such an easy thing for us to do. And we're still doing it with like amazing ethics. It's under your control. It's your culture. It's your business. It's your life. But I mean, I have a doctor who's producing over 5 million a year, working two days a week, taking home DreamPaycheck and they were going to sell it to a DSO. And I'm like, it took us two years to get them to the offer. and they're like, they're so happy and they're able to now, like you said, I think one of the best pieces on this is they got everything that they would have gotten from the cell. But in addition to that, they didn't lose everything that they've built to where now they can go build and create, like you said, the two day a week practice where they're having it, but they've kept their huge asset over here. And so I just think like, I don't know. I feel like there's so many more options on the table than people necessarily think there are. And so. Ryan Isaac (17:03) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (17:12) Maybe don't listen to all the noise, be the smarter. It's like when everybody's doing X, maybe there's a Y that would actually benefit your life. Ryan Isaac (17:16) Yeah. A million percent. Yeah. I mean, Warren Buffett has a quote around that. It's a little bit different with stock market buys and sells and greed and fear. But yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. I love that you said that. I assume. What are we like 45 minutes already? I assume that you probably want to wrap this thing up, but I wanted to end it with that exact question you went there, which is like, can't we do this? Can't you? No. I mean, that's not the job we do. The Dental A team can help design. that what you're trying to accomplish that you think some private equity firms gonna come in and give you. And again, let's all just remember, private equity firms, ⁓ they don't love you. Kiera Dent (17:57) It's true. Ryan Isaac (17:58) They love your money and they are not stupid. There's a reason why they gobble up every industry in the economy is because they make us believe they're just giving us sweetheart deals. Like, they're gonna give us so much money. Isn't it so crazy? Like, no, they're really smart. They're gonna get so much more money from you than you're gonna get from them. So if they want your thing so bad that they're gonna chase you down and send you offers and every time you decline, they're gonna be like, okay, wait, what about this one? Kiera Dent (18:15) They are. Ryan Isaac (18:26) They want it so bad. You must really be holding something really special. So how can you make that thing become your dream scenario without having to give it up? First, just consider that again, no judgment. There is no right or wrong. Maybe that is your path and that is best for you. Great. If you do the work and the, you know, the research and you're just sitting and you're asking smart people like here in the Dental A Team, you know, about all the details and you're asking yourself why through all this process, that's just, that's the whole thing. So I'm glad you Kiera Dent (18:31) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ryan Isaac (18:56) Assuming we're ending it soon. I'm glad you ended it with that because that's what I was thinking about Kiera Dent (19:01) Well, and I'm glad I'm going around the same beach because I feel like DSOs can be such a buzz. I think it's, I don't know. I just thought about, I remember when Jason and I were graduating from pharmacy school and we had a lot of debt on us and it was so tempting to go the 10 year loan forgiveness plan. So tempting. And Jason and I decided like, Hey, we don't want to like hope and bank that in 10 years, we're actually going to get all this paid off. Ryan Isaac (19:07) yeah. Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (19:29) And if it doesn't happen, what's it going to cost us at that point? And so we elected to just go for it to pay for it and to basically have it like, it's within our control rather than someone else holding my future. And I think that's how I often live my life of like, is there a way that I can get my dream life or I'm not banking on someone else holding up their end of the deal, hoping and praying that their equity makes it and it's something that we can actually do with ease? Why not do that? Ryan Isaac (19:33) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (19:55) Ryan knows it was a huge issue with me and Jason for about a year to pay off his student loans, but the growth and the life that we were able to achieve that we wouldn't even be done. We still would not even be done with our debt right now. And it would have ballooned and not all of the debt's being eliminated. Like there's so many things around these loan forgiveness programs that I think about that with DSOs too. You have so much banked in, the hope, the promises, like everything has to go right for this huge multiple to have it there. Ryan Isaac (20:07) yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Kiera Dent (20:24) Is there maybe a few other paths that you could look at that might get you what you ultimately want, give it to you with more control on your side, and also be able to allow you just more flexibility and freedom. Again, no judgment. think what Ryan and I are trying to bring to the table is maybe just consider looking at things differently to see what's the best path for you. And I say like, right back at you, Ryan, use your financial advisors, know what your magic number is, know what you need, and then figure out which option is going to be that. Ryan Isaac (20:48) Yeah. Kiera Dent (20:52) while also providing you the dream life that you want. So Ryan, thanks for the riff today. It was a solid time. Ryan Isaac (20:54) Yep. Thank you. It almost felt like planned. was so smooth. Kiera Dent (21:01) So, mean, it does help when we're good like peanut butter jelly. Like we're very aligned on how we see, that's why I think our clients work so well together because like Denali team clients going to Dentist advisors, it's amazing. We think on similar investment strategies and like just the planning and the protecting clients. And on the other side, it's, Hey, here's our financial number. Denali team literally can like give the gas and give the pieces to it of tactical. So thanks Ryan. was a good time. Ryan Isaac (21:04) Yep. Hmm. We all want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want to grow and protect that business and make it, you know, it's your whole life. Make it as good as you possibly can. You guys are so good at that. Kiera Dent (21:34) Great. Well, Ryan, if people are interested in connecting with you, how do they get connected? Because again, I think for me, before I even talked to DSOs, I always tell them like talk to your financial advisor, figure out your project number. That way you actually can then have even one filter on what deals you're looking for, what plan you need your business to be. So Ryan, how do they connect with you? Ryan Isaac (21:41) Yeah, totally. Million percent. So I'll always say friends of the Dental A Team always can email me directly. I'll always have a conversation with anyone no matter what you're looking for. You don't have to be trying to hire a financial advisor. You might just have a few questions and I will always get on the phone and talk to someone. Just email me directly if you ever want to. Ryan at Dentist Advisors dot com. It's with an O.R.S. You can all just also just go to our website dentist advisor dot com. have probably thousands of hours of free content on there, podcasts, articles, webinars, everything. You can book a consultation with our whole team there at any time. go learn as much as you want, listen to anything, tons of free stuff on there, but that's the best thing. I'm always happy to have a conversation. Kiera Dent (22:29) It's amazing. And just so you know, Ryan does not take very many clients. So that's why I love him being on here. He's one of the founders. I think Ryan's one of the smartest people I've ever met. So definitely take him up on it. I know tons of our clients love meeting with Ryan because Ryan will tell you like, Hey, you don't need me or Hey, here's someone better for you. So I think it's just like, you're just an incredible human who ultimately cares and loves about these dentists, which is why I just appreciate you. So check him out. Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time. Ryan Isaac (22:31) Yeah. I do. Yep, I do. Thank you. Thank you. Kiera Dent (22:59) the Dental A Team Podcast.
All the new tech out there available to practices can be exciting to get your hands on. But if you're not integrating things in a productive way, it'll likely end up in the digital broom closet, collecting dust. Tiff and Kristy talk about the best methods to use when bringing a new program, software, service, etc. to the team. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here today. I have a really exciting, I don't know, subject today on our content and I'm actually really, really excited to talk to you doctors about this and team members, office managers alike, everyone who's here, this is great information for you. I have some offices I'm gonna chat about and just some things that they're doing really, really well I think with their dental assistants that's really setting them apart from. other practices that I've seen or worked with or other practices in their area specifically. So I'm really excited to talk with you guys about that today. And I have brought on with me, of course, one of my favorites. I love all of our consultants, you guys, but Kristy, I know I just love your heart, like your heart and your soul and the love you have for other people. I love having you on our team. And I think that No matter what content we're talking about, you relate to it in some way or you find a way to love on our clients regarding it. But I think today, like, I think it's gonna be a really cool one to do with you. So, Kristy, thank you so much for being here with me today. How are you? You're in a new home. hope, gosh, everybody, if you are a client of Kristy's, I'm gonna brag on Kristy right now. And Kristy does not brag on herself often, unlike any of us do. But Kristy moved states. She moved... She moved states, you guys, without anyone even knowing. I told Kristy, and I will say it again, if I didn't know you were moving, I would never have known you were moving. And I know your clients felt that same way. So you guys, if you are clients with Kristy's, if you see Kristy on social media, you want to write in, like, please give her some kudos because you literally never would have known that you moved entire states. And now you are in comparison in my backyard. It feels like I know you're still like. Kristy (01:49) Yes. The Dental A Team (01:50) hot minute from me, but ⁓ you're here in Phoenix with me. So welcome to Phoenix, Kristy. How are you guys doing? How was the move? How is your family? Tell me. Kristy (01:58) Yep. my gosh, we're doing wonderful. We're enjoying this weather. I know it's going to heat up pretty good this weekend, but we're enjoying it and just making the most of it. ⁓ Getting rid of boxes. How about that? We'll leave it at that. The Dental A Team (02:11) Yeah, yeah, good. I know you went through a garage over the weekend, you said, and it is hot, you guys. Like, I was freaking dying this weekend. I'm like, gosh dang it, why does Phoenix do this to me? But I love it. I'd rather, I have to remind myself all summer, I would rather be hot and like dipping in my pool, you know, or my community pool or my friend's pool or whatever. Somebody has a pool somewhere. I would rather do that than shovel snow. any time of the day, any time of the year. So I will not complain too much about our weather. Kristy (02:46) That's right, amen. I agree. The Dental A Team (02:48) Awesome. I love it. Well, I know a lot of people, you know, follow our journeys and I just think it's really special. So thank you again, Kristy, for the dedication you have to our clients, to our company, and to the results for clients and non-clients alike. You really worked your tail off to, like, you know, you integrated just family and work so well. I think while I speak on behalf of your family as well, I think you really do it seamlessly and every one of us really truly appreciate you. So. That's my spiel on Kristy today, you guys. And I'm so excited to jump into this and you'll see it in your newsletters. If you're not subscribed, go subscribe because there's a slew of information in there. And just so you guys know, if you're not subscribed to the newsletters, you should be. Those newsletters, we actually write them. So the consulting team and our marketing team, we put a lot of work into those newsletters. actually, we write a lot of the content that goes along with those. know marketing takes like one a month, I think, but gosh, there's anywhere between four and six newsletters a month, and they are written by us consultants. So you're always getting the most up to date, accurate consulting information as possible from there. And then we do utilize those similar subjects in our podcast here. So today we are going to speak to one of the newsletter subjects, but we're actually going to spin it just a little bit. So if you're not getting the newsletter again, go check that out because it's going to have different information than we talked about today. Our newsletter focus, our subject here is really, really focusing on dental assistants and new tech and how dental assistants should integrate it or could integrate it and what that looks like and just what we've seen and what we recommend as a company and as consultants on that standpoint. But something I really wanted Kristy and I to focus on today and to really take a look at and kind of spitball between us some ideas is really integrating the tech because I know dentists. I know most dentists, I know the dentists we attract as well, dentists I've worked with are just like so excited about new tech and new everything and we want the latest and the greatest and I love that. I think it's because I think dentists are artists and I think there's just a huge massive creative space within dentistry and for those. individuals who want to be in like healthcare, medicine, but really have that artistic creative side, dentistry fits really, really well for you guys. And the new tech allows us that creativity and to be up to date. But then on the flip side of that too, for the healthcare space, you guys really want the most up to date technology to serve your patients and to serve your community. So I think those both of those reasonings are super massive. But what I see, and Kristy told me, you know, if you see this as well, What I see most often is that doctors are gung-ho. They're like, they're on all the forums, first of all, all the forums. And I know my office managers are like, get him off the forum. But they're on there, they're on all the forums, they're getting all the information, and they're researching the heck out of everything. And then they're jumping, and they're saying, all right, I'm going to get it, and then I'm going to get trained on it, and then I'm going to come back, and we're going to use it. And... They go, they get trained on it, and then they come back and, Kristy, what have you seen in your history? I you've been working with a lot of dentists. You've worked in office. You've worked consulting. What have you seen most commonly? Doctors getting new tech coming back. What do you typically see? Kristy (06:16) you It's multifaceted, think. I think that I see them getting very, very excited to implement it and show the patients the new technology and also for them to use it, like you said. Yet, I think they fail to remember that they sometimes forget to include the team on the training and then their team gets very frustrated. so quickly, ⁓ the doctor ends up getting frustrated because I've invested in this technology and ⁓ my god. my team's not using it and all of a sudden it goes in the cupboard or you know they're not using it like they want to so ⁓ typically out of the gate that's what I've seen happen. The Dental A Team (06:55) Yeah. sure I totally agree and I have to say I've been that person right I've been the dental assistant that's like I don't have space for this like what are you talking about I know how to take an impression I'm gonna keep taking an impression and then I'm gonna take my backup impression because I don't trust the scanner right and I'm like double dipping and wasting time and just really afraid to like jump right in because I didn't, I wasn't there. I didn't get the excitement that the doctor did. I'm not on the forums and truth be told, like I'm just trying to survive. Like I'm just trying to get to the next patient, trying to take care of this patient the best that I can. And I'm trying to get to the next patient and keep a schedule on track and you like flooding this in and you being like, Hey, it's Monday morning. Like I learned this cool thing. We're going to implement this really is like, it's like, It reminds me of like a clock spinning and you've got all these cogs and all these wheels and then you put like this little toothpick in there and it just like stops and it's like trying and trying and trying until the toothpick breaks, right? And then it can go again. But like that's what it feels like when you're in like go, go, go, and we're going to keep the flow of the schedule and we're going to do all of these things. And then you stick this little toothpick in the cogs and we're like, no, and we're like fighting against it. ⁓ until it breaks and we're like, okay, cool, this actually does help. But it takes a minute for us to get there, I think. And I do think that it's just so sad on the doctor's side in most cases, because you guys are so excited for this thing and you're like, this is going to change our lives and I just need you on board. And it can be so deflating. so number one, I love new technology. Number two, human nature is to say no and to slow down and to be like, nope. things are great the way they are, even if they're not working perfectly or super well, they're working enough to get us to the next step. And so we're not always gonna be super on board to just change something. Change is scary and we're like, nope, I'd rather stay where I'm at, because this is comfortable, whether it's right or wrong, than jump on board with change. So in thinking about this, as we're writing the newsletters, I'm like, gosh, there's so many. There's so many things we can talk about with the tech. Like you guys know what that is and we'll throw it in the newsletter. Like, yes, it's there, but what do do with it after the fact? And something I have seen, Kristy, that I've seen a few doctors this year, then one in particular, he's a go-freaking-getter, and he is like go, go, go all the time, and he pushes for the change and he does it really well. But something that I saw him do recently, in the last like year to two years is as he's growing his tech. So he's layering on rather than whole new. So he's doing a really great layering effect, especially with like the in-office crowns instead of being like, we're going to do an office crowns and dentures. He was like, we're going to do in-office crowns. Then we're going to learn to design a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And now we're going to do dentures and we're going to learn to design. So one thing he's done well is he's been able to see the technology and then scale it back. So like a reasonable learning capacity. Whereas I think dentists, your brains work that way. Your brains are techie by nature to a point. Like that's just, that's how your brains work. That's how you got through school. Not everybody is that way and that quick to understand things. Like my kid, he's gonna be an engineer. He looks at something since the day he could start talking. Like, I don't know, I remember him being like three years old and he's in the car asking me like, how does that? work? And I'm like, I don't know. Right? Like, and so I'm like, how do you think it works? So then he's like, I think, you know, and he's constantly he's always done that, like he, or thought he had figured out how like traffic lights are put together, right? This was a funny story. Actually, he said, they take two giant bendy straws, and they stick them together. And that's how the traffic lights are built. And I was like, Yep, that's how they're built. But that's how his brain works. He's got that like, engineer. thoughtfulness behind it, where I look at a traffic light and I'm like, thank God that's there. Like, thank God we're all stopping when we need to stop. I don't care how it was built or how it was put there, just that it works. So you bring new technology in, right? You've got Brody's mindset that's like, how does this work and why does it work and what's it going to do? Then you've got my mindset that's like, how do we get to the end? Like, what's, what are you trying to do with this? I don't care the mechanics of it, just like, what are we trying to do? And we get stuck. Now, if we had a bunch of people on your team that thought the same way you do, right? So we've got a bunch of engineer Brody's running around, nothing would get done. Literally nothing would get done. You would just be talking about the process the whole time about how it could get done. It'd be theories running around and like, what if we changed this? And what if we took this tech that works and we'd like tweaked it? You would get nothing done. So then we try to, we try to take that mold and that learning style and smash it on top of people. who don't necessarily think in that capacity. So what this doctor has been able to do is really take a step back and layer the technology and layer the training, Kristy. And then what he's been doing, I've noticed, is taking his team with him. And maybe not all of the dental assistants, right? Maybe the lead dental assistant and like one more so that two people know it. we're not. We're not saying break the bank and send everybody to a course, but he has been able to take like two dental assistants to a course where he's learning how to design something or he's learning how to use a new scanner, how to use a new mill or a new 3D printer. Gosh dang it. Like I don't even know how to use those things, right? Because I'm not in office learning, but he's taking them and they are coming back with the knowledge. So then what he's done, and I've seen a couple of practices do this really recently with them, implant courses and all kinds of new things. What they've been able to do is now it's not just the doctor, right? That one has all the knowledge. When are you going to trade them? Like, do you have time to do that? No, you actually don't, right? Now it's not just the doctor who knows everything, but it's also not just the doctor who is excited. And when you have people behind you in that excitement, one, I think, Kristy, you don't lose the, like, you don't lose it as quickly, you don't get as deflated because you've got people there rallying with you. And two, Kristy, I think we can speak to this because we train teams. When you have more people behind the idea, it's easier for a group to follow. One person compared to three people on the same team is going to get everybody else following. So he's done a really great job at that. And Kristy, like, from your perspective as a consultant, me just like if I was that doctor, how do you see that working for practices that you know? Like if we were to be able to implement this with more practices where they take them to these courses, how do you think that would change implementation in a practice? Kristy (14:01) my gosh, huge. And I think you spoke volumes to also doctor explaining their why, why they're wanting that technology. So number one, when they can take them to the course, number one, I don't have to spend all the time rallying them and exciting them, right? That excitement's already there. All I have to do as the owner or, you know, doctor that wants the technology is explain why and what's the end result they want. The Dental A Team (14:08) Yeah. Kristy (14:29) Here's the thing, many times when you start to incorporate the team behind it, they have better ideas for implementation than we do. And when they come up with the implementation ideas, holy cow, it's half the battle, right? And they're brought into the process. All the doctor has to do is keep reinforcing why we're doing this, why we want to change, right? The Dental A Team (14:36) Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a huge point, Kristy, because it's like that brain thing again, right? Brody doesn't always have the quickest A to Z, that process, because he's thinking about every single little thing, whereas somebody else coming in can be like, okay, I can get on board with this, and I think we can get there this way. And between the two ideas, like you said, implementing different ways could really, really be beneficial. And probably, Kristy, I would imagine get more people on board too, because if they're like, those are gonna be too hard, it's too complicated. Somebody else simplifying it, that would get me on board. You throw something complicated at me, I'm like, sure, I'll get to that. That's my procrastination. I'm gonna get to that someday. I'm gonna do everything else first because it's easier. Kristy (15:41) Yep, I agree with you Tiff and here's the thing, doctor might short change. He might think, well, let's start scanning on every new patient and they're like, what the heck, we can scan every patient. So you may also limit what they're able to do if it's just your idea. So in you be the cheerleader, explain the end result and the why, but then incorporate them on how, how. The Dental A Team (15:47) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's totally, that's a good point. Cause I've actually seen that too, where they're like, let's practice on each other. And then they're like, well, why don't we just practice on the patients coming in? Like we'll practice on each other for sure, but we've got 16 patients coming in. That's two scans, each of us today. And I've seen doctors be like, ⁓ okay. Do you just have to remember, think, and Kristy, you spoke to this, like you don't have to have all the answers and you don't have to have all of the ways. You have a group of people here. ready to rally behind you if you let them. I do think, Kristy, I think we both have probably seen this or actually experienced it ourselves as well. When you give people that space to also be creative and to have some creative control over whatever it is, you get better buy-in, but you actually get better, like stronger people. I know I'm stronger when I have the availability to create what I need. You give me, you tell me what you want it to be. I can create what that needs to look like to get there. I'm just a better employee. Like, Kira loves me more when I'm bought in, and I get bought in by being able to say, okay, I see what you want. This is how I think it might fit in. And then coming to you ladies consultants and being like, okay, what do you see? And I think to speak to that from the dental assistant space, if you're taking, if you have the availability, you have the... the capability to take your assistant with you, at least your lead, he or she then can say, fabulous, this is how I think we could train on it. This is how I think we could implement it. This is how I think we could get buy-in. And you've got that different perspective from someone who's living, breathing, and working in that space. And I have actually a doctor, I just thought about this this weekend. I think it's this weekend they're going. He's doing a sedation course and I know there's a ton of doctors doing sedation courses right now or they've already done it. I've seen both spectrums. So I've seen the sedation courses. I lived the sedation course that they brought no one and had and I've seen it. I've the same doctor that does really well bringing assistance did the sedation course on his own and that's why he started bringing his assistants is because he did the sedation course on his own and saw zero traction. It was so hard. because there was so much information that he had to bring home to them that then he was like, we've got to have this, this, this. And they're like, I don't know what those things are. Like, I don't know what this means. I don't know when you expect us to do this. So this weekend, I've got a dentist who's going to a sedation course and he's bringing, I think he's bringing all three of his assistants actually, which is going to be massive because then they're going to be able to say like, I'll take this on. I'll take this on and really like divvy out those pieces and implement it so much faster. The biggest thing I think doctors struggle with is the implementation process and it's because they take it all on themselves instead of sharing that love. And Kristy, I know you work with a lot of practices and I know this is like not new information. It's just needing to be heard. What do you suggest for those doctors who are listening that are like, cool, but like, I don't know who I would take. And then, so I don't know who I would take and then how do I pay for that? how do I budget that? What do you suggest for those doctors? Kristy (19:27) Yeah, there's two parts to that tip. think number one, hopefully we're all doing performance reviews with our team and asking their goals, their professional goals. What are their growth opportunities for the year? If we're doing that, we kind of know the path that they're looking for, right? And hopefully through that, we identify areas where they want to learn. If we haven't done it, let's get it on the agenda to do it. But also, The Dental A Team (19:53) That's a good idea. Kristy (19:54) maybe reach out to the team and ask questions. Hey, I'm looking to learn more about this. Who else would be interested? You know, and before you tell them you're going, but I'm looking into this and just see who would be interested for one and ⁓ invest in them. And that's kind of what I heard you saying. When the doctors invest in their team, team members take great pride in that. Like I know The Dental A Team (20:04) Yeah. Kristy (20:19) I was privileged to have a lot of CE in the offices that I worked in and I always felt so honored, you know? And it just makes me a better me and I can come back and implement that in the office and help be a part of something bigger than myself. So investing in them is huge, but yeah. ⁓ The Dental A Team (20:29) Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I totally agree. think I was honored to be able to take a lot of CE as well. And it really did make me feel ⁓ invested in and special. And like I reinvested back in the practice. it's not to say that everyone's going to feel that way or going to utilize it that way. But I do think sometimes you just got to like go for it. You've just got to say, you know what, if it works out that way, fantastic. And if it doesn't, that's OK, too. because I'm willing to see this through. I'm willing to go for it. And Kristy, suggestion of really chatting with the team and figuring out like, what is your future? What do you want this to look like? Where do you want to go? Kind of helps weed out to the people who are going to reinvest back into the practice or the people who are going to be like, that was cool, but whatever. You you'll be able to tell that. And budget wise with this practice that I just worked with, that's sending everyone to the sedation course, I make him do a CE. a CE bucket. And so when he said to me, he texted me, he said, and when he listens to this, he's going to know exactly what I'm talking about. He texted and he said, Tiff, I want to send this assistant, like I've already got these two covered. And I said, sure, price it out. What's the flight? What's the hotel room? Do you have to pay extra for her to go to the course? What's your total cost? And what do you have in your bucket? can you take that from there considering also any CE you're going to have in the future. You've already got two going. I don't care if you take that third. That's totally up to you if the availability is there. If the funds are there or you're willing to make that investment out of whatever funds you have, go for it. Just make sure you're always looking for that. So I do always, always, always say make sure you're dumping into some sort of a CE bucket for those pieces. And a lot of times doctors will think like, well, the CE course only costs this much. You got to think of your travel as well. Just like when we come in office to you guys, when we talk to you about your platinum model subscription here with Dental A Team, where you're getting a one-on-one consultant, we consider all of those pieces too when we know we're going to be traveling to you. That's always considered in the cost of your Dental A Team membership. So same theory, same thought process, just make sure it's all bundled together and you know all of the pieces. Kristy, I think I love the way we spun this one. If you're not getting the newsletters, please make sure to let us know and we'll make sure we get you subscribed because I do think this one is off the cusp of the newsletter and the newsletter is going to have a ton of really great information as far as actual technology. Our biggest piece today, Kristy, I think we nailed it, was really, really honing in on how beneficial it can be to one layer. your CE, so layer your courses, layer your technology, make sure that it makes sense and that it goes in a trajectory that truly benefits the practice, team and the patients. And then really making sure if you can get your team members there to do it. Just gets people on your side, get people that can help you implement it when they know the knowledge. It happens so much quicker. I can quickly say we did sleep together as a team, we said. and we took two people out of 17. When I was in office, and this was a long time ago, know, so sleep has come a long way, but two people out of 17 coming back was still really hard. So just make sure whatever it is that you're doing, whatever technology you're about to implement, whomever you can bring that will continue the progress and get people on your side, we can do it, invest in it, it's worth it. Kristy, any last words or anything you want to summarize that I didn't hit on there? Kristy (24:23) No, I think we did a good job there. I guess the only pearl that I would say is then when you bring it back into the office, rally together, gamify it. Maybe put a quantity of we're going to do this many and just celebrate when you reach your goals. The Dental A Team (24:41) Yeah, that's a great idea. I love game of buying things. That was brilliant. Awesome. Thank you, Kristy. And thank you, listeners. As always, we are here for you guys. If you have any ideas or any hopes, dreams, wishes, desires on podcasts that you would love to hear more about, more ideas or anything like that, please don't hesitate to read to write in. We get those a lot at Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. So send us what you want. And as always, leave us a five star review below, letting us know that you did enjoy this and also I would love to hear your stories. If you guys are sending team members, taking team members, or you're hesitant to, please, please, please, please write in. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Just like the newsletters, we do answer a lot of those emails that come through on the consultant side. So just let us know how we can help you and we'll catch you next time.
Al and Kev talk about whether or not farming game remakes are worth it. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:08: What Have We Been Up To 00:38:42: Game Updates 00:58:01: New Games 01:11:11: Farming Game Remakes 01:51:29: Outro Links Research Story 1.0 Tiny Garden Switch Info Go-go Town “Tourist Trap” Update APICO Physical Edition Farming Simulator 16-bit Limited Edition Romestead Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. My name is Al. (0:00:34) Kev: My name is Kevin (0:00:36) Al: And we’re here today to talk about Cottagecore games. (0:00:39) Kev: You woo supposedly the word on the street is it says on the box (0:00:46) Al: Does it? (0:00:47) Kev: That’s odd, yeah, it does it what does the websites I’m assuming it does (0:00:51) Al: I don’t know. This is a good question. What does it say on the website? (0:00:54) Kev: You know, we’ve never done (0:00:55) Al: It says farming. It says a podcast about farming simulators. (0:00:58) Kev: Well, there you go, I guess we were lying somewhere, you know one of these days (0:01:00) Al: Yeah, classic. (0:01:04) Kev: Not days we should do in April fools and switch it up (0:01:07) Kev: Or we talk about I don’t know something else. I guess we kind of do that sometimes but you know something really different (0:01:12) Al: Something, something else. (0:01:14) Kev: Yeah (0:01:16) Kev: We talk about gotcha games, I mean I already do but you know all in oh (0:01:23) Kev: Yeah (0:01:24) Al: Hello. We are going to talk this episode about, I want to have a discussion about remakes. (0:01:25) Kev: Hello listener (0:01:34) Kev: We don’t oh (0:01:34) Al: Specifically remakes of farming games. (0:01:38) Kev: Oh, that’s well hmm. I mean it’s still in the neighborhood like there’s stuff to be discussed for sure (0:01:47) Al: Well, that’s why we’re doing it. (0:01:51) Al: I don’t tend to have topics that I don’t think I’ll have much discussion. (0:01:55) Kev: That is died and I believe that’s factually not true (0:02:00) Al: Wow, how dare, how dare you, how very dare you. (0:02:04) Kev: Oh (0:02:06) Al: Before that, we have a bunch of news, but first of all, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:02:13) Kev: Okay, let’s see here when I wrote things down (0:02:16) Kev: Okay, Marvel snap. Okay, I should have talked about this earlier because it ended this week, but I mean all snap goes (0:02:22) Kev: It’s good the the new Fantastic Four (0:02:27) Kev: Season with cards based off the movies coming up (0:02:30) Kev: They’re just doing a whole new season like first step family (0:02:34) Kev: First steps whatever but but that’s coming so you know and that looks good (0:02:38) Kev: But I didn’t talk about maximum voltage overdrive or whatever that thing was called (0:02:45) Kev: You played snap outs been a minute. Did you play maximum voltage? (0:02:49) Kev: Do you remember that mode at all? (0:02:50) Al: I think it was around when I was playing, but I don’t think I played it. (0:02:54) Kev: Uh-huh (0:02:56) Al: I did the Deadpool Diner and I did. (0:02:59) Kev: Yeah (0:03:00) Al: There was one other one that I did, but I don’t think I did maximum. (0:03:02) Kev: Okay, so (0:03:04) Kev: So yeah, every once in a while snap introduces these like alternate modes with different rules or different words or whatever (0:03:12) Kev: And so one that they’ve done is called maximum voltage (0:03:16) Kev: and previously maximum voltage was a three-turn game instead of six turns and (0:03:20) Kev: They would give you a random amount like two to four energy every turn like extra so it was you know (0:03:27) Kev: Not just the one two three four (0:03:29) Kev: So you had you could play cards quickly and you had to do on three turns (0:03:34) Kev: It’s a it’s a different pace a game. It’s fun even shorter. I liked it (0:03:41) Kev: Well this past week or two they did maximum voltage overdrive or overcharge whatever’s over something (0:03:50) Kev: Where it was a four-turn game (0:03:53) Kev: The same rules of okay, you get random two to four energy every turn (0:03:59) Kev: on top of what you already have (0:04:02) Kev: But they (0:04:04) Kev: Also filled your deck out with like was it eight or twelve extra random cards in your deck (0:04:10) Kev: Those extra cards had lower costs and higher power (0:04:15) Kev: So it was it was a wild ride because it was a lot of like kind of RNG really right what you get (0:04:22) Kev: It’s hard to build around like, you know real strategy around it (0:04:26) Kev: and you know, I (0:04:28) Kev: I enjoyed it enough. It was fine enough. You know a lot of people don’t like RNG sort of (0:04:34) Kev: modes or strategy so you know I don’t think as popular as other ones but at (0:04:40) Kev: least they tried something right like I always did they say hey try it and then (0:04:43) Kev: we’ll see how it goes but the bigger fiasco was the rewards because when they (0:04:52) Kev: have these side missions they’ll give you usually like a sort of bonus currency (0:04:56) Kev: or side currency or whatever specific for that mode with a shop or reward tier (0:05:01) Kev: or something like that. (0:05:04) Kev: In this case they gave you a shop, you could earn let’s just call them vault points or whatever they were called. (0:05:08) Kev: And so there was a new card in the shop. (0:05:12) Kev: Kid Omega, I don’t know who that character is but they had a decent enough ability. (0:05:16) Kev: But regardless, so yeah, it was a new card and very cool and all. (0:05:24) Kev: But here’s the thing, for the first time ever in one of these side modes, you could not earn the card for free. (0:05:32) Kev: Um… (0:05:34) Kev: Well, I guess you technically could, but… (0:05:36) Kev: So how it works is every eight hours you get a set of three missions, and you get X number of points for it, right? (0:05:44) Kev: Well, people did the math. (0:05:46) Kev: If you did all the missions, every single set of three for every eight hours for the entire duration of the thing, (0:05:52) Kev: you would still have to win 500 games, I think it was, to earn enough points to earn the new card. (0:05:57) Al: That is so many games. (0:06:04) Kev: But… (0:06:04) Al: I don’t think I’ve ever won 500 games combined in the, like, what, combined what, six months (0:06:06) Kev: Yeah, totally. (0:06:14) Kev: I mean, I might be there with you. (0:06:18) Kev: But yeah, so that was wild. (0:06:24) Kev: And a lot of people were up in arms about it, as you can imagine, and I think understandably so. (0:06:30) Kev: Also, because Marvel Snap, traditionally, has been… (0:06:34) Kev: Play-ish where or at least you if you played enough you could get a decent pool of cards or you could get work (0:06:40) Kev: You know the new cards they were releasing if you kept up you could (0:06:45) Kev: You could you could play for free (0:06:48) Kev: the boat the money was either spent on generally speaking on (0:06:55) Kev: Cosmetics, you know variants and bundles (0:06:57) Kev: I guess the season passed you could unlock a new card and that’s ten bucks a month and like that (0:07:02) Kev: But they would drop for free later (0:07:04) Kev: So you didn’t have to do it. But anyways (0:07:08) Kev: Point is that a lot of players feel like the the snap devs are kind of leaning a little more into (0:07:15) Kev: You know pay to win or pay to get the new cards (0:07:19) Kev: So that was a big (0:07:20) Kev: Yeah, big big bit a little bit of fiasco (0:07:25) Kev: and (0:07:26) Kev: Yeah, it’s over now. We went to another mode called sanctum showdown, which is but it’s much slower paced modes fun (0:07:35) Kev: They’re playing it safe. No crazy (0:07:38) Kev: Expensive card or whatever but (0:07:40) Kev: It’s interesting to see (0:07:43) Kev: kind of a shame that they you know, they’re a little money hungry, but (0:07:48) Kev: Cuz though otherwise the game I think is in still in a decent shape (0:07:52) Kev: They’ve released so many cards like I think it’s almost in a state of we can play whatever you want more or less (0:07:59) Kev: But yeah, I mean I’m still playing it. I’m still enjoying it. I did not get the kiddo-megan card (0:08:05) Kev: You know, it’s wild. I saw somebody with that card on day one (0:08:08) Kev: Which means they must have put a lot of money or gold or whatever. Yeah, there’s always an I found the whale. Oh (0:08:08) Al: Hmm there’s always one. There’s always one. Yeah (0:08:16) Kev: Speaking of not having money or wanting money (0:08:20) Kev: Yes, let’s talk about unicorn overlord. So I reached the end of what’s called best stories. That’s the beast land (0:08:30) Kev: Campaign area there’s basically like five countries in the game or whatever and each one is kind of (0:08:34) Kev: Its own little chapter if you will write its own little story and arc and so I reached the end of the best stories chapter (0:08:41) Kev: Which is fine and all the villain was a rat man a rat where rat I guess. I don’t I don’t know how to describe it (0:08:50) Kev: You know, I’ll show you a picture (0:08:52) Kev: but (0:08:53) Kev: And so I enjoyed it. It was a fun chapter. I think the Beast people were cool, but what is funny and (0:09:00) Kev: I can feel it. I learned about this (0:09:04) Kev: When I went online because it felt something felt like it was changing the writing in unicorn overlord who was pretty alright (0:09:12) Kev: Up until around now because they really just kind of did not give the the rat man’s name (0:09:19) Kev: His name was Elgore and he kind of had an interesting story (0:09:23) Kev: The rats were generally oppressed people and he wanted to rise up and then you know, he became a general (0:09:29) Kev: So it’s kind of an interesting story and there was some evil the evil bad guy team (0:09:34) Kev: We’re doing experiments on him yada yada (0:09:38) Kev: But it was really really rushed. And so I kind of looked into it and it turns out (0:09:45) Kev: That oh (0:09:47) Kev: Hold on one second now (0:09:49) Kev: my mic (0:09:51) Kev: Sorry, there we go. Sorry. My mic had a hiccup and I think we’re good now while checking (0:09:57) Kev: double-checking (0:09:58) Al: Sounds fine to me. (0:09:59) Kev: Yes, okay. I lost a few seconds of the recording, but okay. I’m okay (0:10:03) Kev: I don’t know, at least the– (0:10:03) Al: It’s fine now. (0:10:05) Al: Zoom is pretty good at like starting out. (0:10:05) Kev: Yeah, all right (0:10:09) Kev: Well, anyways, so I looked up that why it started feel rushed and turns out that the unicorn (0:10:15) Kev: Overlord development ran out of money and basically the director producer they started funding it out of their own pocket (0:10:22) Kev: so apparently this last (0:10:25) Kev: quarter or so of the the game is gonna feel very rushed and (0:10:30) Kev: There’s no time for story anymore. Which is sad but (0:10:34) Kev: That said the game is still (0:10:38) Kev: Entertaining. I like it. It’s fun. Yeah, like unicorn overlord to two thumbs up from me (0:10:45) Kev: Let’s see (0:10:47) Kev: So yeah, so that’s good. Um, oh, okay follow up from last week (0:10:50) Kev: So we spent a little time having a fun little chat about magic the gathering and capitalism and the $1,000 (0:10:58) Al: Like 20 minutes. (0:10:59) Kev: pack of set of four packs (0:11:02) Kev: and it was all started as you may recall because (0:11:04) Kev: I was looking at the, or you know, the Final Fantasy set of Magic the Gathering cards came out, (0:11:12) Kev: and I did not want to buy them because I didn’t want to spend them, or spend the money for them. (0:11:17) Kev: Well, this week I bought the Final Fantasy card set from Magic the Gathering, virtually, virtually, there’s my caveat, haha. (0:11:26) Kev: Uh, no, I did not spend money, but… yeah, haha, virtual versions of my cardboard. (0:11:27) Al: Oh, wait, that’s that’s even that’s even all right. (0:11:30) Al: I was going to say that’s even worse if you bought digital cards. (0:11:35) Kev: No, no money spent. So I’ve been, I’ve played Magic the Gathering Arena, though that’s the online client. I fired it up to get in there and try. (0:11:43) Al: Good game. I’ve not played in a long time, but when I was playing, I was doing a lot of arenas. (0:11:49) Kev: Alright, it’s good. It feels comparable, I think, to, you know, Pokemon TCG live. (0:11:54) Al: Oh, I think it’s way better. (0:11:56) Al: I think it’s way, way better. (0:11:57) Al: I think the I mean, it’s been a while since I played it. (0:12:00) Al: But in my experience, the app was much less slow in menus and the effects were much better. (0:12:05) Kev: Yeah. (0:12:08) Kev: I agree with that. It is much, much more polished, right, overall. A little fancier. And you’re right, a little less laggy. (0:12:17) Kev: But, yeah, but I mean, the point is, it serves as a decent online, you know, substitute for the paper game. (0:12:26) Kev: So I got some, yeah, Final Fantasy cards there and played a little, doing a choco bow deck. (0:12:33) Kev: I’m really upset (0:12:35) Kev: Those cards are really good, art-wise and gameplay-wise (0:12:42) Kev: They have, because I mentioned I was playing Final Fantasy, the proper FFTCG (0:12:49) Kev: That game doesn’t have equipment cards (0:12:51) Kev: Magic the Gathering does, so Magic the Gathering can include iconic items and weapons (0:12:57) Kev: Like the Buster Sword, or a cup of instant noodles from Final Fantasy XV (0:13:04) Kev: So I’m more…a little… (0:13:05) Kev: I’m jealous that Magic did it so well. (0:13:07) Kev: Whoever…the people working on the Final Fantasy set, they really love Final Fantasy. (0:13:13) Kev: They have Souplex the Train as a card. (0:13:17) Kev: People who know FF5 understand that reference. (0:13:25) Kev: But yeah, I mean, I try to… (0:13:27) Kev: I’m still thinking about it. I’m looking at it. (0:13:31) Kev: The card’s proper. I’m not gonna buy it yet. (0:13:35) Kev: Oh, it’s been…I’ve been craving it. It’s a siren song. (0:13:38) Kev: So I had to…you know…I had to at least do it virtually to enjoy it a little. (0:13:46) Kev: But I digress. That’s what I’ve been up to this week. (0:13:50) Kev: What about you, Al? What’s going on? (0:13:52) Al: Well, let’s see, what have I been up to? (0:13:56) Al: Shock surprise. (0:13:58) Al: I have been playing some Mario Kart World up. (0:14:00) Kev: Yeah, you’re going for it, man. Getting all those knockouts here. I’ve seen your progress. (0:14:04) Al: Yes, so update on that. (0:14:07) Al: I have done all of the Grand Prix’s 150, three stars and all of the knockout (0:14:13) Al: all of the knockout tours, 150, three stars. (0:14:19) Al: and I have done enough in free. (0:14:22) Al: Rome to unlock mirror mode. (0:14:25) Kev: Okay. (0:14:27) Al: And I have unlocked all of the costumes. (0:14:30) Kev: Oh, you’re- you’ve done it all almost pretty much at this point. (0:14:33) Al: I am still missing three characters. (0:14:36) Kev: Wait, wha- oh. How d- uh- uh-huh. (0:14:38) Al: But that’s because they are the Kamek characters, (0:14:43) Al: so you have to be on a specific course (0:14:47) Al: and someone use the Kamek behind you on that specific course. (0:14:50) Kev: Uh, okay, I did notice that I got some kamiks and I think I got kamiks characters out of that. (0:14:53) Al: There’s a chance that you get one that character, so. (0:15:00) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:15:01) Al: So I’ve got most of them, but I’m still missing three of them. (0:15:04) Al: And it’s like they are dreadful to try and force like the bet. (0:15:08) Kev: Yeah, who are they? (0:15:10) Al: How who am I missing? (0:15:12) Al: Let me check my spreadsheet. (0:15:14) Al: I am missing Rocky, wrench. (0:15:18) Al: Peepa and Swoop. (0:15:20) Kev: Oof, oof, oh man, I like swoop. (0:15:21) Al: I have the rest of them. (0:15:22) Al: So that’s I have that’s 15 out of 18 characters unlocked (0:15:26) Al: and 103 out of 103 costumes unlocked. (0:15:31) Al: So, yeah, and I’ve got all the vehicles as well. (0:15:36) Al: All 40 of them. (0:15:37) Al: So I am going to I’m definitely going to do. (0:15:40) Al: I’m definitely going to start doing mirror modes. (0:15:42) Al: I really want to restart all the mirror modes (0:15:45) Al: before I get too much muscle memory for specific courses. (0:15:46) Kev: Yeah. (0:15:49) Kev: Mmm. (0:15:50) Al: Right, because that that’s when it becomes really hard. (0:15:52) Kev: Yeah, you’re right. (0:15:53) Kev: That’s an excellent point. (0:15:53) Al: But I’d love I’d love to three star mirror mode (0:15:56) Al: because I’ve never restarted every mirror mode in a Mario cart. (0:16:00) Kev: I mean you’re like there, you’re wide as well, right? You’ve gone the 90%? (0:16:06) Al: Yeah, it’s I guess the thing is it’s just about like time now, right? (0:16:10) Kev: Uh-huh. (0:16:10) Al: Like we’ve got two and a bit weeks until Donkey Kong comes out. (0:16:15) Al: That’s basically my deadline, right? (0:16:15) Kev: I was about to say, that’s the deadline, right? (0:16:17) Al: Like if it’s if I’ve not done it by (0:16:20) Al: Donkey Kong coming out, it’s probably never happening. (0:16:23) Kev: Yeah, well, maybe they’ll release some DLC, but I understand what you generally say. (0:16:28) Al: Yeah, but at that point, I don’t I think at that point I’ll play the DLC, (0:16:31) Al: but I don’t think I’ll go back and try and do the other mirror modes. (0:16:31) Kev: Yeah, it’ll be out of your system, I get it. (0:16:34) Al: Right. (0:16:36) Al: So we’ll see. We’ll see how I feel. (0:16:38) Al: But I’m going to I’m going to at least try and see how far I get. (0:16:42) Al: But obviously it’s quite few and, you know, I can see I should be able to do them. (0:16:47) Al: Right. Because I’ve done one hundred and fifty. (0:16:49) Al: I should be able to do mirror mode. (0:16:50) Al: I don’t think I’m in use to them enough that I will cause problems. (0:16:53) Al: Although maybe there’s a couple of courses that are recreations of previous ones, (0:16:58) Al: like the Mario Bros circuit, which is just like the continuation from the one (0:17:00) Kev: Yeah (0:17:03) Al: and since the sna is- (0:17:06) Al: right? That one might be trouble because I suspect I’ll have muscle memory for that course (0:17:06) Kev: Yeah (0:17:12) Kev: Sure sure (0:17:12) Al: but we’ll see, we’ll see. I’m gonna try and we’ll see how I go (0:17:17) Al: and I think that’s all I was considering. So have you done much free roam? (0:17:22) Kev: Not too much myself now (0:17:25) Al: So you’ve got the P switches, you’ve got peach medallions and you’ve got the question mark blocks. (0:17:27) Kev: Yeah (0:17:29) Kev: Yeah (0:17:32) Al: the only one that’s actually like shown on the map. (0:17:36) Al: The P switches where each course has a certain number of P switches and it shows you how (0:17:38) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:17:40) Al: many you’ve got. So I’m considering doing the P switches, but there’s no way I’m going (0:17:47) Al: to look for all of the peach medallions and all not not P switches sorry the question mark blocks. (0:17:52) Al: It’s not the P switches the question mark blocks. There’s no way I’m going for the piece all the (0:17:56) Al: P switches and all the peach medallions. I’ll probably do some more just playing around in (0:18:00) Al: free roam and if I see some I will do some, but I’m not going to go out my way to get (0:18:04) Al: every day because it’s like (0:18:06) Al: 300 P switches or something it’s mad how many there are I’m not going to do (0:18:08) Kev: Yeah, you don’t want to collect all the Koroks? (0:18:12) Al: all of them definitely not but I can see myself doing all the question mark (0:18:17) Al: blocks just because they’re like clearly like there’s six on this course six on (0:18:22) Al: this course six on this course I could see myself doing that but I’m not I’m (0:18:28) Al: not going all in on that at this point right like we will see (0:18:31) Kev: man. I gotta say the free roam is a little disappointing from what I’ve experienced and (0:18:39) Kev: seen. I was really hoping for, for lack of a better word, secrets, right? Little nooks (0:18:47) Kev: and crannies you could explore that, you know, you wouldn’t experience on a race or whatever, (0:18:52) Al: - Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:18:53) Kev: right? Like in, you know, shooting for the stars, like even a handful of courses not in any of the (0:19:01) Kev: pre-write, you know, unofficially labeled, like you enter a cave and all of a sudden (0:19:06) Kev: there’s this little racetrack down there. Stuff like that, but anyways, yeah, there’s not much (0:19:12) Kev: going on other than unlocking mirror mode, I guess, on free roam. Although I do like the (0:19:20) Kev: Princess Peach Castle, the window easter egg, that’s fun. (0:19:23) Al: Yeah, yeah, it’s I will agree that I think free roam is a little bit of a disappointment, but yeah, I am still very much having fun. (0:19:35) Al: And I will definitely be playing this with people in person a lot. (0:19:40) Kev: I’m sure. I mean, it’s Mario Kart. It’s built for that. (0:19:41) Al: No, it’s 100% worth. (0:19:44) Al: Yeah, it’s 100% worth it, especially as, you know, it was what, like 30 quid in the bundle, right? (0:19:49) Kev: Yep. (0:19:50) Kev: Exactly. (0:19:50) Al: Like it was very much worth that. (0:19:53) Al: And just, it is, I still stand by it’s the most fun to control the, with the new physics reactions. Like I feel like all the other ones will feel quite stiff going back to them. (0:20:04) Kev: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don’t think (0:20:10) Kev: Yeah, I yeah, I don’t think a lot of people are gonna push back on that it does feel very good to control (0:20:16) Kev: I agree (0:20:19) Kev: Yeah, it’s it’s I mean it’s Mario Kart right like it’s still gonna be good (0:20:22) Kev: It’s a but it is funny though that you know insert the the Simpsons sheep gif when Donkey Kong bonanza comes out (0:20:28) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. That is going to be like a couple of weeks of just (0:20:34) Kev: Yeah (0:20:37) Al: like that’s the only thing I’m playing. Yeah. And we, has the direct been since we recorded (0:20:39) Kev: It looks so good, I only more (0:20:44) Al: our last episode? I can’t remember. Super fun. I’m so excited for this. I think it’s (0:20:44) Kev: I I can’t remember. We haven’t talked about it either way, but that’s uh (0:20:51) Kev: that’s a (0:20:52) Kev: good looking direct (0:20:53) Al: really, yeah, I think they, that was a great direct because it shows (0:20:58) Al: it kind of confirmed a bunch of the stuff we already knew while also giving us enough (0:21:03) Al: to be like, oh, there’s more. Right. And, and I think it’s really, I think it’s really (0:21:09) Al: good looking. Like I love the different effects that you get in transforming into other animals (0:21:16) Al: and also having Pauline basically be like a parrot on your shoulder. Right. It’s really (0:21:22) Kev: yep it’s it’s so good I i love the online reaction that we the internet gave of like you (0:21:23) Al: fun. (0:21:30) Kev: know the trifecta of uh was it ralph and vanellope uh sully and boo and now we’ve got dk and pauline (0:21:38) Kev: you know big guy and then little girl um it’s it’s fun (0:21:38) Al: Look, it works, right? Like why, why break it? Why try and fix it if it’s not broken, (0:21:47) Kev: Exactly. It’s great. Um, yeah, I’m I’m very pumped. Uh, (0:21:52) Kev: for uh uh the the game or general, I guess. Um, it’s I’m a (0:21:59) Kev: little disappointed that we don’t get the animal buddies (0:22:02) Kev: per se. I mean, I know Rambi’s in there and and it’s kind of (0:22:06) Kev: in there, but you know, it’s it’s the functions been replaced (0:22:09) Kev: by your transformations and the transformations are cool. I (0:22:12) Kev: won’t lie. Um but uh I don’t know. I’m a guy who likes Rambi. (0:22:17) Al: Well, look, I don’t have any real history with the previous DK games other than trying them and not enjoying them. (0:22:23) Al: So I don’t particularly mind. (0:22:27) Al: I’m not a lower muncher. (0:22:30) Kev: Sure, I mean, it’s not even like lore stuff because that’s uh, that’s just uh, you know, I guess mechanics or (0:22:38) Kev: Gameplay traditions, whatever. But if you want to talk about lore, I mean we can get trying to you know (0:22:43) Kev: We can try figure out why on earth (0:22:48) Kev: Does how is Pauline hanging out a DK? How does that timeline work? (0:22:52) Al: Well, I think everything lines up if you just ignore the original DK game. I don’t think (0:22:59) Al: anything else is a problem. I think it’s only that. And I think that this ties in so much (0:23:00) Kev: Yeah. Which… (0:23:05) Al: better to Odyssey, because why would Pauline be the mayor of a city that’s named after (0:23:11) Al: her kidnapper? But she would be the mayor of a city that’s named after her hero. (0:23:12) Kev: Yeah, I like the way you think there that’s a good point, yeah, but and also like this (0:23:28) Kev: is even more so than Odyssey cuz I mean Paulina was in there was you know, she’s first time (0:23:32) Kev: back in forever or whatever but she’s you know, she has a starring role finally, that’s (0:23:40) Al: Yeah, my I also I have another theory that it might be time (0:23:47) Kev: All right, oh well there you are now we’re talking let’s get into that Zelda split timeline (0:23:55) Al: Well, I don’t even think it needs to be a split timeline, right? (0:23:58) Al: Like, if something happens and she gets shot forward and then she goes back in time after this, (0:24:04) Kev: Oh, I like it. I like. (0:24:05) Al: you know, she could still go through the whole thing, because the thing is, right, (0:24:09) Al: Pauline in Donkey Kong, that’s not this Donkey Kong, that’s Cranky Kong. (0:24:14) Kev: that is cranky kong who does exist yeah oh I like that that’s clever yeah there you go all right I like it (0:24:15) Al: So, you know, she’s obviously from the past. (0:24:22) Al: Or, or, here’s another suggestion. (0:24:25) Al: If Donkey Kong, if Donkey Kong and Cranky Kong are both Donkey Kong, then maybe Pauline. (0:24:32) Al: This could be a different Pauline. Maybe this is Pauline’s daughter. (0:24:35) Kev: You know, I mean, that’s well established, right? Bowser Jr. looks just like Bowser when he’s a baby, I guess, so you know. (0:24:45) Al: Pauline Jr. (0:24:46) Kev: Pauline Jr. could be! (0:24:49) Kev: Although, okay, you know what? You know what? I’ll even point the bat at the stands here. (0:24:54) Kev: I bet we get little Pauline here as a character in Mario Kart World War 2. (0:24:58) Al: I hope so. I do hope there is some stuff coming, so I saw someone note that some of the characters (0:25:06) Al: have lots of costumes, and some of them have almost none. In fact, some of them have none. (0:25:11) Al: And the interesting thing is, one of the characters that has almost none is Donkey Kong. He only (0:25:12) Kev: Yeah. (0:25:16) Al: has one costume. Just before a Donkey Kong game comes out, suspicious. So are we interested (0:25:17) Kev: It is very strange considering, you know, he’s… (0:25:21) Kev: Uh-oh, uh-oh! (0:25:28) Al: in a Mario Kart World update coming with some Donkey Kong costumes to encourage you (0:25:34) Kev: I mean (0:25:36) Al: to be interested in the new game? Maybe. Yeah. And we obviously have all the baby characters, (0:25:37) Kev: If if it feels like the most obvious dough in the world, right, um, so yeah (0:25:46) Al: so would we get a young Pauline, as well as the babies that we’ve got of the other characters? (0:25:48) Kev: I like it (0:25:51) Kev: How cute (0:25:51) Al: We don’t have Pauline at all. Oh no, we do have Pauline. But also Pauline only has one (0:25:53) Kev: We do it, Paul (0:25:58) Kev: Like a generic racer costume, so there you go (0:25:58) Al: costume. So, you know, the two of them, both in an upcoming game. You know, I will be very (0:26:05) Kev: Yeah, yeah, yeah (0:26:09) Al: disappointed if there’s not. But this makes you wonder what else could be related to things, (0:26:11) Kev: I you know that’s I don’t think you’re being unreasonable (0:26:16) Al: right? Birdo only has two costumes, so that’s an interesting one. Could there be a Birdo (0:26:22) Al: thing coming up? Who knows? Lakitu only has two costumes, and there is an update to… (0:26:28) Al: Why can’t I remember the name? Goodness me. Mario Party. Which Lakitu obviously has a (0:26:34) Kev: Which Mario what okay? (0:26:40) Al: big part in Mario Party. Maybe I’m stretching at this point. Who knows? But we’ll see. I’m (0:26:41) Kev: Yeah (0:26:48) Kev: We we will see I think that’s the end that’s all we can kind of say really um (0:26:54) Al: I’m sure we can say much more, but let’s not. (0:26:56) Kev: Well, well, okay, yeah, you know, I will say this like each his legs still make me very uncomfortable. I (0:26:59) Al: Fair, very fair. (0:27:03) Kev: Don’t like it (0:27:05) Kev: Get in the car. Don’t look at those freak. Yeah, no, no, I don’t like it. That’s (0:27:08) Al: Don’t put him on a bike. (0:27:15) Al: He should be in the cloud cart. (0:27:19) Al: That’s the only one he’s allowed to be in. (0:27:20) Kev: Yeah, you really or you know, I don’t care I (0:27:23) Al: No, I’m just saying. (0:27:26) Kev: Look, I don’t care if it’s like (0:27:29) Kev: Horrendous I don’t care if it’s horrendous like animation clipping just (0:27:35) Kev: Just stick the the dang (0:27:36) Al: The cloud around every cart you put them in. (0:27:40) Kev: Yeah, yeah, when he’s the bike it’s just clipping right to the cloud (0:27:45) Kev: Okay, you make it it’s worth it (0:27:50) Al: All right, so that’s my car. (0:27:52) Al: I’ve also I don’t want to talk too much about this, but I do want to mention it. (0:27:58) Al: I’ve opened Lens Island again and started playing that. (0:28:02) Al: So for context, I originally backed on. (0:28:06) Al: Kickstarter and I started playing it when it first came out, but it had no controller (0:28:11) Al: support and basically was horrible to use on the steam deck. (0:28:16) Al: So I have started playing it again, and it is less horrible to play on the steam deck. (0:28:24) Kev: But that’s always the bar we want less horrible (0:28:25) Al: And I think that’s as far as I’m going to go on this comp on it just now. (0:28:33) Al: I will probably go into it a lot more in the next. (0:28:36) Al: episode, probably, but no promises. (0:28:38) Kev: Okay, fine. Okay. (0:28:43) Al: So that is a thing that is currently happening that I am not going to give any opinions on right now. (0:28:52) Al: But finally, we are recording this on Saturday, the 28th of June. (0:28:57) Al: I have just finished the first day of Pokémon Go Fest 2025 Global. (0:29:01) Kev: Oh, is that what’s going on? Okay. (0:29:03) Al: That’s what’s today. (0:29:04) Al: Yeah. So, uh, I had. (0:29:06) Al: Fun. I got a few hours where I was allowed to remove my (0:29:14) Al: responsibilities from children and just go play Pokemon in Edinburgh. (0:29:17) Al: And yeah, I got a good amount of stuff done and I enjoyed that. (0:29:20) Kev: Cool. What is going on? What are they releasing? (0:29:24) Al: This is the Crowned in Shield form Zacian and Zamazenta. (0:29:30) Kev: Wait they weren’t in there already that’s weird, but okay (0:29:32) Al: No, they had the base forms, but not this Crowned in Shield form. (0:29:37) Al: Uh, because they’ve got to release them separately to make the most money, right? (0:29:42) Kev: - Oh, yeah, yeah. (0:29:46) Al: But yeah, so, uh, yeah, I think they did this one a lot better than the previous (0:29:52) Al: other forms, because with Curum and with, uh, oh, what’s the other one? (0:29:59) Kev: Uh, uh, uh, Nick Asma. (0:30:03) Al: Nick Rosma, thank you. (0:30:05) Al: with both of them. (0:30:06) Al: You have a certain amount of energy you need to get to fuse them, but if you separate (0:30:15) Al: them, you have to use the same amount of energy again to fuse them again. (0:30:21) Al: It’s like a thousand-fuse energy, or whatever they call it. (0:30:25) Al: I can’t remember and I don’t care. (0:30:26) Kev: Yeah, that’s correct (0:30:29) Al: Once you fuse them, you use up that thousand, but you get like a hundred per raid that you (0:30:33) Al: do. (0:30:34) Al: raids to get enough defuse once (0:30:35) Kev: Okay (0:30:36) Al: set of them. And then if you’re like, “Oh, I fused the wrong one”, and you unfuse it, (0:30:37) Kev: Yeah, oh (0:30:42) Al: you then have to do another 10 raids to do it. But of course, those raids were only available (0:30:45) Kev: It sounds like a lot (0:30:48) Al: for one weekend. They’ve never been available again, so you can’t get the energy anymore. (0:30:55) Al: It’s dreadful! (0:30:56) Kev: That sounds like a lot. (0:30:58) Al: Well, the good thing is that Zamasenta and Zacian, once you turn it into crown form, (0:31:04) Al: If you revere its form, you can… (0:31:06) Al: you can then do it again without using any energy. (0:31:09) Kev: Sure, okay. Okay, I mean, that’s that’s definitely nice. I just, man, I just got to say I didn’t go that long at all. But hearing how like, because I think Megas were kind of the first one where you had, you know, special mega energy or whatever. Like, it’s, oh, it doesn’t sound great. Just the oddest. (0:31:33) Al: The the Megas actually I think is a lot better than it was when it first launched. (0:31:38) Al: So like you you can get one free mega for each of your mega Pokemon once a week. (0:31:45) Al: So once you’ve done the initial one, every week, you can do it once for free. (0:31:49) Al: You only have to pay more energy after the first one (0:31:53) Al: if you want to do it faster than that. (0:31:55) Al: And as you get up the power, like once you can level up the mega and once you get (0:32:00) Al: Mega level 3. It matters. (0:32:04) Al: How much it costs so like every if you were to do it every single day, you wouldn’t be using a huge amount of energy so it’s it’s not it’s it’s much better than it was initially launched and I get why you know it is a bit frustrating that you still have to use it energy at all but it’s a lot less annoying you also get energy if you walk with them as a buddy and stuff like that so you know it’s it’s fine it’s fine it’s these fusing ones that are the most annoying because it’s like. (0:32:33) Al: I know have my necrosimas and my cutums fused and I can never unfuse them because I would never be able to fuse them again right like it’s just that’s it if you chose the wrong one tough and it’s really annoying because one of them I did choose the wrong one and but there’s nothing I can do about that I’m stuffed and that’s just what I have to live with. (0:32:40) Kev: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:32:46) Kev: Oh, no! (0:32:50) Kev: Ugh. (0:32:52) Kev: Oh, that’s rough. That’s rough, buddy. (0:32:53) Al: Still. Yeah, that is life but yeah so there’s actions Amazon to was done much better and I got shiny. (0:33:03) Al: And I got my energy and I’ve I’ve powered them up so nice powerful Pokemon looking looking great my shiny shield was it shield form kind of what it’s called and they have new adventure effects so. (0:33:04) Kev: Yeah! (0:33:10) Kev: Yeah, that’s the game! (0:33:18) Kev: That’s cool, that’s good. (0:33:19) Al: There we go. (0:33:22) Al: And they can also be used because they’re when they’re in that form they can be used at power spots, which normally only dynamics Pokemon can be used a pair of spots, but of course you can’t you can’t. (0:33:33) Al: And they can also be used in Dynamax session and Amazon to but when they’re in that form you can use them a pair of spots so that’s fun. (0:33:44) Al: So yeah, I probably do a little bit tomorrow as well because it was Amazon to things action tomorrow, but which is a bit annoying, but if you got the ticket for go fest you do get enough energy to do one of one of the dogs, so I do have enough to do as action, but I probably want to get enough to do another one. (0:34:02) Kev: Sure. Well, I am glad that you’re enjoying it. (0:34:03) Al: Continuing to enjoy Pokemon go despite everything. (0:34:07) Kev: I don’t… (0:34:11) Kev: This, well, that’s kind of, uh, I mean, that’s just a blanket save these days. (0:34:20) Al: They keep trying to ruin the game, but I still somehow enjoy it. (0:34:24) Al: All right, let’s talk about some game use a woo. (0:34:31) Kev: Oh, wait, wait, back up. (0:34:32) Kev: I’m sorry, I just– (0:34:33) Kev: I don’t know why you just clicked something in my mind. (0:34:34) Kev: I forgot. (0:34:35) Kev: I want to follow up my Magic the Gathering thing. (0:34:39) Kev: So as I look, you know, I was dipping my toe in the MTG pool. (0:34:44) Kev: Guess what’s the next secret layer? (0:34:45) Al: I don’t know. (0:34:46) Kev: You know me. (0:34:48) Al: Ah, ah, ah, pressure, um, unicorn over the light! (0:34:53) Kev: Haha, oh, oh, that’d be so (0:34:54) Al: No, ah, no, um, let’s see, so Kevin, something Kevin would like. (0:34:59) Al: Well, it’s not going to be like anything Nintendo. (0:35:02) Kev: No, no it’s just very funny hearing that. (0:35:04) Al: Wait, is it? (0:35:06) Al: No. (0:35:08) Kev: I didn’t intend, I didn’t intend, life log Nintendo Pass. (0:35:09) Al: Well. (0:35:12) Kev: You don’t like Nintendo things, um, but it won’t, uh, MTG, I gotta say, it wouldn’t be (0:35:15) Al: I mean, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that’s the opposite of what I thought, Kevin. (0:35:19) Kev: in there. (0:35:20) Kev: Yeah, okay. (0:35:21) Kev: Yeah, okay, yes, yeah, I know what you’re saying, but the way it came in my ears, it’s (0:35:21) Al: What I thought was, oh yeah, it could be, you know, you like Nintendo stuff. (0:35:25) Al: And I was like, oh no, but they’re not going to do something with Nintendo. (0:35:27) Al: That was my point. (0:35:30) Kev: It’s not too funny. (0:35:31) Al: Trying to accuse me. (0:35:32) Al: Accuse me of not thinking you like Nintendo stuff. (0:35:34) Al: Ah, no, I’ve not got anything. (0:35:39) Al: Nothing’s coming. (0:35:40) Kev: Ow! The lowest hanging fruit! Gotta go fast! (0:35:44) Al: Oh, Sonic. (0:35:45) Al: What? They’re doing Sonic, Magic the Gathering? (0:35:47) Kev: They’re doing- okay. (0:35:49) Kev: Yeah! Dude, they already did SpongeBob! Who cares? (0:35:53) Al: What? This is what one out all these cards look so good. (0:35:54) Kev: Oh, you missed that! SpongeBob’s in magic! Oh, yeah! (0:36:02) Kev: Don’t they? (0:36:03) Al: Oh, no. Oh, no. (0:36:04) Kev: They look- that’s- that’s the exact reaction. (0:36:10) Al: I don’t want this. Well, no, I do want this. (0:36:14) Kev: And you- and- oh, my- like, Shadow- (0:36:15) Al: I managed to not even look at the Doctor Who and Lord of the Rings ones somehow. (0:36:18) Kev: Oh- oh, yeah. (0:36:20) Kev: Shadow looks busted. It’s insane. (0:36:24) Kev: They’re no big the cats, so point against them for that. No cream, either. (0:36:28) Kev: But overall, it’s- it’s in their- (0:36:31) Kev: Ugh, Sonic’s ability, ‘cause you know, when they have an ability, they have a little, like, name for it. (0:36:36) Kev: It- it’s literally “Gotta go fast.” (0:36:38) Kev: You know “Gotta go fast” isn’t even from the games. (0:36:40) Kev: It’s just from the, uh, the- the dub intro of an anime. [Laughter] (0:36:45) Al: Yeah, I’m not particularly surprised. (0:36:48) Kev: Oh, yeah, Sonic’s going to magic. (0:36:50) Kev: It’s- ugh. I don’t like it. I’m- I’m- I’m- oh, dear. I’m cooked, as the children would say. (0:36:58) Kev: You know, Unicorn Overlord, it- wild as it- it’s not in Magic the Gathering, but in- they have one of those- (0:37:04) Kev: What is it? I think it’s, like, the Overlord edition. You know, one of the big fancy collector’s editions. (0:37:08) Kev: There’s actually a whole (0:37:10) Kev: building card game inside that it’s wild (0:37:16) Kev: Yeah, card games are my vice. They’re my legal addiction. Sonic’s coming to magic (0:37:16) Al: And will this be coming and will this be coming to arenas? (0:37:28) Kev: uh good question I don’t know arena is very weird because arena has (0:37:39) Kev: arena is kind of its own environment it has exclusive arena cards it has its own formats (0:37:45) Kev: and i’ll tell you the the bad ones we’re getting a spider-man set in a few months (0:37:51) Kev: that the spider-man set cards are coming to arena but not with spider-man full (0:37:58) Kev: they’re going to replace them with whatever generic magic card characters or whatever (0:38:02) Al: What? What does that even mean then? (0:38:05) Kev: it means they didn’t get the license to use it digitally (0:38:07) Al: What would be the point in adding the cards then, if they’re not the cards? (0:38:11) Al: So they’re gonna have like the same effects, but not use any names for Spider-Man. (0:38:14) Kev: yeah yeah you you get yeah you get pied or arachnid avatar I don’t know (0:38:18) Al: That’s so stupid. (0:38:20) Al: Just don’t do it. (0:38:28) Kev: uh good old magic together I i joined just this year what a good time to get into this game (0:38:36) Al: Update, I have downloaded Magi the Gathering Eraser. (0:38:39) Kev: yeah oh we gotta play some games um all right let’s go to non sonic base oh or is there (0:38:44) Al: Yes, yeah, news, game news. No, no, no, no, there’s obviously not. Research story have (0:38:47) Kev: is there sonic base news maybe not yet one day it’s inevitable (0:38:56) Al: announced that their 1.0 is coming the 21st of July, so it has been a long time coming. (0:39:00) Kev: Okay (0:39:02) Al: Let’s see, when did this first come into Early Access? February 2023 was when this launched (0:39:04) Kev: Yes, oh wait research, so I don’t know I heard something else okay that that is exciting (0:39:11) Al: in early access. (0:39:12) Kev: Research work takes forever to ask Cody. That’s why the 1.0. It’s it’s forever (0:39:14) Al: So, maybe we need to get our second harvest on this after the 1.0 is out. (0:39:18) Kev: It’s the equivalent of getting their PhD congratulations research story (0:39:23) Kev: I’m sure Cody isn’t triggered by this at all (0:39:31) Kev: Okay, so wait we got let’s see what is the date on the oh July 21st there (0:39:38) Kev: It is but it’s available on the on a beta branch. That’s weird. What do you mean? (0:39:43) Kev: 1.0 will be available in beta before one point (0:39:45) Al: No, no, that’s so. So that’s before launch, you’ll be able to play the beta. (0:39:48) Kev: Yeah, I know that that’s very weird to me like (0:39:52) Al: Well, OK, I see what you mean. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. So (0:39:57) Al: it’s not actually that uncommon in software development where you go, this is our beta for (0:40:05) Al: 1.0 or 1.1 or whatever. That is not that uncommon, actually. I think it’s less common in games, (0:40:07) Kev: Sure. Yeah. Sure. And I mean, like, you know, public betas and test servers, (0:40:12) Al: But it’s definitely something that you see quite a lot. (0:40:18) Kev: like they’re common and I’m not saying it’s unheard of, but I don’t know. (0:40:21) Kev: It just feels weird, especially in game dev, like the 1.0 is the big fitting, right? (0:40:25) Kev: So, uh, I don’t know, but whatever, um, but hey. (0:40:28) Al: You still have to pop the game you can’t just play it’s not just anybody can play it like it’s public (0:40:33) Kev: Yeah. (0:40:34) Al: But public for people who have paid for the game, right? (0:40:37) Kev: That’s true. Good point. (0:40:40) Kev: All right. But hey, it’s here. (0:40:42) Al: Tiny garden the content the (0:40:45) Al: Featured game of last week’s episode have released a statement regarding the Nintendo switch version (0:40:52) Kev: I didn’t think I’d ever hear a statement from Tiny Garden. (0:40:56) Al: This is this is great. I’m just (0:40:58) Al: going to read some of the statement because I don’t think I can really (0:41:01) Al: summarize it better than they have done. “We wanted to clarify some questions (0:41:06) Al: that have arisen regarding the Nintendo Switch version of Tiny Garden. We have (0:41:09) Al: been vague and perhaps not communicated with you as well as we could have, for (0:41:14) Al: which we apologize. We did not want to cause you unnecessary concern or bore (0:41:18) Al: you with technical details. The truth is that the Switch version of Tiny Garden (0:41:23) Al: will be ported by an external company. As we are such a small team it was very (0:41:28) Al: hard for us to do everything in-house. The problem here is we’ve not yet found a (0:41:32) Al: company that can port the game with the polish and quality that we feel (0:41:35) Al: comfortable with. Both our publishers Super Rare Games and us want to deliver (0:41:40) Al: the best possible version of Tiny Garden on Switch. However, we did not (0:41:43) Al: anticipate that this porting would be so complicated.” Hey, I could have told you. (0:41:48) Al: We’ve seen this before. (0:41:50) Kev: What are you talking about? (0:41:52) Kev: It’s katrossi katronfi, it’s fuckies! (0:41:56) Al: And then they go into details about complaining. (0:41:58) Al: About their game engine and that’s the reason. (0:42:02) Al: Sure, fine. (0:42:05) Al: It’s funny because it’s like, oh no, we didn’t know it would be complicated to bring it to a (0:42:10) Al: console. Like what did you expect? Like these things are always complicated. (0:42:14) Kev: Well, yeah, I mean anything game dev is complicated pretty much anything dev software dev is always complicated (0:42:19) Al: Yeah, exactly. (0:42:21) Kev: Well, look here. Here’s your free advice tiny garden people call biting studio (0:42:27) Kev: Those are the guys who make cassette beasts that except beasts is on Godot. They brought it to switch (0:42:32) Kev: It’s awesome on switch. There you go (0:42:33) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s the thing. I suspect if you do it in Unity or Unreal, I suspect (0:42:42) Al: it is slightly easier because they are obviously like larger companies use them and so therefore (0:42:51) Kev: They’re established. (0:42:53) Al: need the console support to be as good as it can be, right? Because otherwise there (0:43:00) Al: There would be big problems because Godot is. (0:43:04) Al: open source and therefore more likely to be used by smaller teams, and they are less likely to be focusing on consoles at all more likely to be focusing on just PC because that is the easiest for. (0:43:18) Kev: Uh-huh (0:43:18) Al: I mean, it’s just the easiest to develop for full stop right because there’s no gatekeeper right like that has has been the case for a long, long time. (0:43:20) Kev: Yeah, I mean yes, yes, that’s correct (0:43:26) Kev: And probably will always be the case because just the nature of the beast so yeah (0:43:28) Al: Exactly. (0:43:29) Al: Exactly. (0:43:30) Al: Exactly. (0:43:31) Al: So there’s, they’re probably simplifying. (0:43:33) Al: Things in what they’re saying, you know, these things happen. (0:43:40) Al: I would like to clarify again, please, if you’re backing a game on Kickstarter, if you (0:43:47) Al: want it for console, don’t back it on Kickstarter, right? (0:43:50) Al: Like just, just like it’s the console is always like, it is when the Kickstarter happens normally, (0:43:59) Al: the way that it is happened is there is a working version of the game. (0:44:03) Al: It may not be final. (0:44:04) Al: It may not have all the content, but they have a game and it can run on PC. (0:44:08) Al: There will be nothing running on console at that point. (0:44:11) Al: And it’s very likely, unless they are a team that have ported to console before, it’s very (0:44:16) Al: likely that they have no idea what they’re doing with consoles at all, right? (0:44:20) Kev: Yep. (0:44:21) Al: And this, this isn’t meant to be harsh on them. (0:44:24) Al: This is just a fact that if you have, if you’re not a console developer, you do not know how (0:44:29) Al: complicated it is. (0:44:30) Al: I am not a games developer, right? (0:44:33) Al: I’m a web developer. (0:44:34) Al: And even in web development, there are things that if you don’t know how it works, it is (0:44:38) Al: so much more complicated than you realize. (0:44:42) Al: And there are just certain things that are more awkward. (0:44:45) Al: And if you haven’t started development on it, you don’t know how complicated it is. (0:44:49) Al: And it is likely not going to be done until the game is finished. (0:44:52) Al: That’s the other thing, right? (0:44:55) Al: Even Stardew Valley still doesn’t get updates out day and date on console, right? (0:45:00) Kev: Yeah. (0:45:01) Al: and stardew valley (0:45:03) Al: is one of the biggest indie games, full stop. (0:45:06) Kev: Yeah. (0:45:07) Al: It’s not like he’s only on his own anyway. He has a team that he works with, he worked with (0:45:12) Kev: Nice. (0:45:12) Al: porting companies before, he has done many different things, and even he can’t do it. (0:45:20) Al: It takes so much work, even big companies struggle with that. (0:45:26) Al: It is rare for a game to come out at the same time on PC and console unless you are one of (0:45:31) Al: of the biggest games and they will. (0:45:34) Al: Completely different teams working on the PC version, working on the switch version, working on the PlayStation version Xbox is different because they’re like the Microsoft of well, pretty much Microsoft have done so much work and I, you know, I’m the first to jump on Microsoft a bad bandwagon, but Microsoft have done so much work to make putting games to Xbox so incredibly easy it’s not. It’s still not just as simple as click a button. It does. (0:45:36) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:45:41) Kev: Yeah (0:45:44) Kev: They are a PC (0:46:03) Al: It does it, but it is so much easier than any other console. If you have an existing PC game, especially if you’re using the tools that Microsoft give to make the game on PC. (0:46:07) Kev: Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, guess. Hi. Hey, I’m still holding out for mighty number nine (0:46:15) Al: All that being said, all that being said, never back a Kickstarter for a switch game. Just don’t do it, right? (0:46:25) Kev: on the 3DS. Uh, but. (0:46:31) Al: I have, I have, when I, when I bought my steam. (0:46:33) Al: Dick, it was so good because it meant that I could go through and like change (0:46:37) Al: all of my kickstarters to use to steam codes instead of switch get codes. (0:46:41) Kev: Mmm, yeah, at least (0:46:41) Al: And you get the game a year before, right? (0:46:44) Al: It’s just every, every, every single one is there’s none of them. (0:46:49) Al: Not a single game that I have backed on Kickstarter has released (0:46:53) Al: on switch at the same time as steam. (0:46:54) Kev: year you’re not wrong not at all ah well you know what though in this (0:47:03) Kev: particular case there’s an easy way to fix this you know what you don’t even (0:47:07) Kev: have to release on the switch tiny garden just so you know what we’re (0:47:11) Kev: canceling it we’re investing everything into the playdate port and we’re all in (0:47:12) Al: Honestly, a Playdate port would probably be quicker, because it would have to lose features, (0:47:17) Kev: we’re good all is forgiven (0:47:24) Al: right? It’s not going to be the same, the graphics are simpler, like honestly, if they started now (0:47:31) Al: from scratch, they could probably get a Playdate version out before they could port their version (0:47:34) Kev: Well, well there you go, Tiny Guard. The path is there. (0:47:34) Al: to Switch. I’m not joking. They would of course get a fraction of the sales, right? There are (0:47:42) Al: Playdates. Yes, it does. I love the Playdate, it’s so good. I just wish I played it more. (0:47:44) Kev: the dozens look I mean I might join the dozens I’ll say that (0:48:00) Kev: Yeah (0:48:05) Al: As far as I can see, the only number I’ve seen on Playdate sales was in May of last year, (0:48:10) Al: They said 70,000 have been sold (0:48:12) Al: But that was one year into it, and we’re now a year later, so who knows
Today on Welcome to Cloudlandia, Our discussion unravels the surprises of Ontario's geography, the nuances of tariff wars, and the timeless drive for ambition, ensuring you're well-equipped with insights into how technology continues to redefine the global landscape. Discover how NuCom's innovative app is revolutionizing sleep and relaxation. We dive into the specifics of how its unique audio tracks, like "Summer Night," are enhancing REM and deep sleep, all while adding a humorous twist with a comparison to Italian driving laws. With separate audio for each ear and playful suggestions for use, you'll learn how this app is setting new standards for flexibility and effectiveness in achieving tranquility. Finally, we ponder the evolving nature of trust in a world increasingly dominated by AI and digital interactions. Drawing inspiration from thinkers like Jacques Ellul and Thomas Sowell, we discuss the societal shifts driven by technological advances and the potential need for encryption to verify digital identities. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discuss the intriguing journey from Ontario's cottages to the realm of international trade, focusing on how AI is reshaping trade agreements and challenging the predictability of global politics. Dean explores NuCom's innovative app designed to improve sleep and relaxation through unique audio tracks, highlighting its effectiveness in enhancing REM and deep sleep. We ponder the evolving nature of trust in a digital world increasingly dominated by AI, exploring how we can maintain authentic human interactions amid rapidly advancing generative tools. Dan shares a humorous story of two furniture companies' escalating marketing claims, setting the stage for a discussion on capitalism and the importance of direct referrals in business. We delve into the impact of technology on society, drawing insights from Jacques Ellul and Thomas Sowell, and compare AI's transformative potential to historical technological advancements like the printing press. Dean highlights the importance of personalized market strategies, exploring how personal solutions can evolve into valuable products for a wider audience. We explore the concept of ambition and agency, discussing how adaptability and a forward-looking mindset can help navigate new realities and unpredictable changes in the world. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan. Dan: Ah, Mr Jackson. General Jackson. General Jackson. Dictator Jackson Dean: Now there's two thoughts that are hard to contain in the brain at the same time. Are you in Toronto or at the cottage today? At the cottage, look at you, okay. Dan: Yeah, all is well, very nice day, yeah, except our water went out and so we can't get it fixed until tomorrow morning because it's cottage country. Till tomorrow morning because it's cottage country. And you know, this is not one of those 24-7 everybody's available places on the planet. Dean: Where do people in cottage country go to get away from the hustle and bustle of cottage country on the weekends? Dan: Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question. It's a good question they go about two hours north. Dean: It feels like that's the appropriate amount of distance to make it feel like you're getting away. Dan: In the wild. Dean: Yeah. Dan: So we're having to use lake water for priming the vital plumbing. Dean: The plumbing you have to do. Dan: You have to have pails of water to do that and we'll do. Even though it feels like a third world situation, that's actually a first world problem. Dean: You're right, you're exactly right. Dan: Yeah, yeah, beautiful day, though. Nice and bright, and the water is surprisingly warm because we had a cold winter and the spring was really cold and we have a very deep lake. It's about um the depth meters on the boats go down to 300 feet, so that's a pretty deep lake that's a deep lake. Yeah, yeah, so here we are here's a factoid that blew my mind. The province of Ontario, which is huge it's 1,000 miles north to south and it's 1,200 miles east to west has 250,000 freshwater lakes, and that's half the freshwater lakes on the planet. Isn't that amazing? Dean: Yeah, I heard a little. There's some interesting Ontario facts. I remember being awed when I found out that you could drive the entire distance from Toronto to Florida north and still be in Ontario. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, If you go from the furthest east, which is Cornwall a little town called Cornwall to the furthest west, which is a town called Kenora Right, kenora to the furthest west, which is a town called canora right, uh, canora. It's the same distance from that as from washington dc to kansas city. Oh, that's amazing yeah I had a good. Dean: I had a friend who was from canora. He was an olympic decathlete, michael sm. He was on the Olympic decathlon team and that's where he was from Kenora, kenora. Dan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of big. I mean most of it's bugs, you know most of it's bugs. It's not, you know, the 90% of the Ontario population lives within an hour 100 miles of the? U, lives within an hour a hundred miles of the US. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean that's it's if you go from the east coast to the west coast of Canada. It's just a 3,200 mile ribbon, about a hundred miles high that's really can't. From a human standpoint, that's really Canada. Everything else is just bugs yeah. Dean: So it's very. I guess you've been following the latest in the tariff wars. You know again Canada with the oh yeah, well, we're going to tax all your digital things, okay. Dan: Okay, yeah, okay we're done. Yeah, we're done. That's it Good luck Stay tuned. Dean: We'll let you know how much we're going to charge you to do business. I mean, where does this posturing end, you know? Where do you see this heading? Dan: Well, when you say posturing, you're Well. Dean: I don't think I mean it's. Dan: There's a no. It's the reworking of every single trade agreement with every single country on the planet, which they can do now because they have AI. Yeah, I mean, you could never do this stuff before. That's why using past precedents of tariffs and everything else is meaningless. Dean: Well, here's an example. Dan: If the bombing of Iran, which happened in recent history, iran which happened in recent history, if that had happened 30 years ago, you would have had a real oil and gas crunch in the world. Everything would crunch, but because people have instant communications and they have the ability to adjust things immediately. Now, all those things which in the past they said well, if you do that, then this is going to happen. Now I don't think anything's going to happen, Everybody's just going to adjust. First of all, they've already built in what they're going to do before it happens. You know, if this happens, then this is what we're going to do. And everybody's interconnected, so messages go out, you know they drop the bomb, the news comes through and in that let's say hour's time for everybody involved. Probably you know 10 billion decisions have been made and agreed on and everybody's off and running again. Yes, yeah. Dean: Yeah, it's amazing how this everything can absorb. Dan: I think the AI changes politics. I think it changes, I think it changes everything. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Dean: Agreed, yeah, but, but, but not necessarily in any predictable way, mm-hmm. Right, exactly. Dan: Yeah. Dean: But meanwhile we are a timeless technology. Dan: We are. Dean: I was rereading you Are a Timeless Technology. Yeah, these books, Dan, are so good oh thank you. Yeah, I mean, they really are, and it's just more and more impressive when you see them all you know lined up 40 of them, or 44 of them, or whatever. I'm on 43. Dan: I'm on 43. 43 of them yeah, I'm on 43. I'm on 43. 43 of them, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This one's called Always More Ambitious, and we talked about this in the recent In the free zone yeah. In the free zone that I'm seeing ambition as just the capability platform for all other capabilities. Dean: Yes, you know, you have ambition and you know or you don't. Dan: And then agency goes along with that concept that, depending on your ambition, you have the ability to adjust very, very quickly to new things. For example, getting here and, uh, it was very interesting. We got here yesterday and, um, we had an early dinner. We had an early steak dinner because we were going to a party and we didn't think that they would have the kind of steak at the party that we were right, they didn't have any steak at all. Oh, boy, and they had everything that I'm eating steak. The reason I'm eating steak is not to eat the stuff that's at the party. Right, exactly, yes, I mean, I'm just following in the paths of the mentor here, of the mentor here, anyway, anyway, um, so you know, all the water was working and everything, and when we went to the party we came home and the water didn't work and it's some electrical connection you know, that in the related to the pump and um and anyway, and I just adjusted. you know, it was still light out, so I got a bucket and I went down to the lake and I got a bucket full of water and I brought it up and you know, and I was really pleased with OK. Ok, scene change. Dean: Yeah right, Exactly yeah. Scene change. Dan: Ok, you, you gotta adjust to the new one, and I'm new reality, right yeah, new reality. Okay, what you thought was going to happen isn't going to happen. Something is going to happen and that's agency. That's really what agency is in the world. It's your ability to switch channels that there's a new situation and you have the ability not to say, oh, I'm, oh, why, jane? You know, and you know that long line of things where, maybe 10 years ago, I was really ticked off and you know and, uh, you know, you know, I checked if I had any irish whiskey, just to to dead dead in the pain. Dean: All right. Dan: Yeah, and I just adjusted. You know? Yeah, this morning I took a Pyrex you know, the bowls you use to mix things, the mixing bowls you know, yes and I just filled it up with water, put it in the microwave. It still works, the microwave. Went and I shaved, you know, and. Dean: I shaved Right. There you go. Dan: Yeah, you can do a washcloth bath if you need to. Warm water, yeah, but the interesting thing about it is that I think that you don't have agency unless you have ambition. In other words, you have to have a fix on the future, that you're going to achieve this, you're going to achieve this, you're going to achieve this, and it's out of that ambition that you constantly develop new capabilities. And then the other thing is you utilize all the capabilities you have if something goes you know goes unpredictable. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Dean: And my. Dan: Thing is that this is the world. Now, I mean, you know and so, and anyway it's, it's an interesting thing, you know but I'm really enjoying. I'm really enjoying my relationship with perplexity. I'm sort of a one master, I'm a one master dog. Dean: Right, exactly. Dan: Like I listened to Mike Koenigs and he's investigated 10 new AIs in the four weeks since I talked to him last. Dean: He's doing that there. Dan: I'm just going developing this working relationship with one. Dean: I don't even know. Dan: If it's, is it a good one? I don't even know if perplexity is one of the top ones, you know, but it's good for my purposes. Dean: Well, for certain things it is yeah, for just gathering and contextualizing internet search stuff. But you know I look at Mike, as you often talk about Joe Polish, that you know. You don't need to know everybody, you need to know Joe Polish. I just need to know Joe, anybody you want to meet, you just mention it to Joe and he can make it happen. And I'd look at Mike Koenigs like that with AI tools. We don't need to know all the AI tools. Dan: We just need to stay in touch with Mike. Dean: Mike and Lior and Evan, you know we're surrounded by people who are on the. Dan: Yeah. And Tom Labatt do you know Tom, yeah, well, tom has created this AI mindset course that he's doing. And and he he comes to every one of our 10 times. Our connector calls, you know the two hour Zoom calls. So we've got every month I have two for 10x and I have two for FreeZone and and he's in breakout groups and every time he's in a breakout group. He acquires another customer. Dean: Right. Dan: And then I'll have Mike talk about what he's discovered recently. His number goes into chat and you know know, 10 people phone him up and say what's this all about? And it's amazing the, the uh, what I would say the um, um progress in our strategic coach clients just acquiring ai knowledge and mindsets and capabilities just by having one person who I just get him to talk to on a Zoom call. Dean: Yeah, it's pretty amazing yeah. Dan: I think this is kind of how electricity got foothold. Did you get electricity in your house? Yeah, yeah, yeah and you have electric lights. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and you have electric lights. Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah, yeah, you know, it's, you know. And then all sorts of new electrical devices are being created. Dean: Yes, that's what I'm curious, charlotte about the, the, uh. What were the first sort of wave of electrified uh conveniences? You know that. Where did we? Where did we start? I know it started with lights, but then. Dan: Yeah, I think lights obviously were the first. Yeah, yeah. It would have taken some doing, I think actually. I mean, once you have a light bulb and they're being manufactured, it's a pretty easy. You can understand how quickly it could be adapted. But all the other things like electric heaters, that would take a lot of thinking. Dean: Before what we're used to as the kind of two or three prong, you know thing that we stick into the wall. Before that was invented, the the attachment was that you would plug it into the light socket. Dan: Oh yeah, that was how you would access the electricity. That's right, you had a little screw in. Right, you had a little screw in that you could put in. Yeah, I remember having those yeah. Dean: Very interesting, that's right. Dan: Right, yeah, yeah. And then you created lawn wires that you could, you know you could you know, it's like a pug, but you needed something to screw into the light socket. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very, I mean it's, it's so. Yeah, what a. What a time. We had a great um. I don't know if we recorded um. We uh, chad and I did a vcr formula workshop the day in toronto, in toronto, yeah, and that was a really the first time we'd done anything like a sort of formalized full-day exploration. It's amazing to see just how many you know shining a light for people on their VCR assets and thinking of it as currency and thinking of it as currency and it's amazing how, you know, seeing it apply to others kind of opens their eyes to the opportunities that they have. You know, yeah, it was really I'm very excited about the, just the adaptability of it. It's a really great framework. Dan: Have you gotten? Your NuCom yet? Dean: I have absolutely. Dan: I really love it what's your favorite? I have different. First of all, I use the one at night that sounds like crickets. Okay, yeah, you know, it's 10 hours, you can put it on for 10. It's called Summer Night and it's got some. There's a sort of faint music track to it. But my aura, I noticed my aura that my REM scores went up, my deep sleep scores went up and the numbers you know. Usually I'm in the high 70s. You know 79, 80, and they jumped to 86, 87. And that's just for sleep, which is great. So I've had about two weeks like that where I would say I'm probably my sleep scores I'll just pick a number there but it's probably up around 50, 15, 15, better in all the categories and that and. But the one thing is the readiness. The readiness because I play the trackster in the day. But the one thing is the readiness, the readiness because I play the trackster in the day. But the one that I really like to have on when I'm working is ignite okay yeah, it's a. It's a really terrific. It's really terrific, that's right I haven't used any of the daytime. Uh, yeah, the daytime yeah, yeah, and then the rescue is really great. Okay, yeah, and you know For people listening. Dean: We're talking about an app on iPhone called NuCom N-U N-U-Com, yeah, and it's basically, you know, waves, background music. I mean, it's masked by music, but it's essentially waves. Dan: Apparently. We were in Nashville last week and David Hasse is experimenting with it. He says what they have is that they have two separate tracks. I use earphones and one track comes in through your right ear, one comes and your brain has to put the two tracks together, and that's what uh, so it elevates the brain waves or kind of takes the brain waves down. And there's music. Dean: You know the music yeah over and uh, but I noticed mentioned to me that the music is incidental, that the music has nothing to do with it. Dan: No, that's exactly right, it just gives your brain something to hold on to Attached to yeah. And then Rescue is really great. I mean that one. Just you know if you have any upset or anything, or you're just really busy, or you're enjoying anything. You just put it on, it just calms you right down. Dean: Did you notice that the recommendation on Ignite is to not use more than 60 minutes a day? Dan: Yeah, I doubt if I do. I think it's about a 14-minute track. Oh, okay, yeah, interesting, yeah, but that's a suggestion. Dean: Yeah, it is a suggestion. That's right, that's funny. Dan: Now what you're talking about. There is a suggestion. That's right, Now what you're talking about. There is a suggestion. Dean: That's all suggested. That's right. Dan: That reminds me of I was in Italy, I was on the Amalfi Coast and Italians have a very interesting approach to laws and regulations, you know. So we were going down the street and I was sitting right next to the bus driver, we were on a bus and a whole group of people on the bus, and so we come down to a perpendicular stop. You know you can't go across, you have to turn, and the sign is clearly says to the, and the driver turns to the left, and I said I think that was a right-hand turn. He said merely a suggestion. I love it. Dean: That's great. Dan: Merely a suggestion. Yeah, that's funny, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. Have lawsuits, you know, like something like this. I mean, it's a litigious country, the. Dean: United States. Dan: Yeah, and so you know they may be mentally unbalanced, you know they may be having all sorts of problems. And they said why don't we just put in recommended not to use it more than an hour? So I think that's really what it is. That's funny. Yeah, Like the Ten Commandments, you know, I mean the suggestions yeah, there are ten suggestions, you know, yeah, yeah, but break two of them at the same time and you're going to find out. It's more than a suggestion. Yeah, fool around and find out, yeah I think in terms of book titles, that's a good bit. Pull around and find out. That's right, exactly. So what would you say is uh, just going on the theme of pulling around and find out that you've discovered is that there's things with AI that probably shouldn't go down that road. Dean: Anything. Just philosophically, I'm more and more resolute in my idea of not spending any time learning the particular skill or learning the particular tool, because I really, if I look at it that fundamentally, if you think about it as a generative tool or as a collaboration, creating either images or words or picture or uh, you know, sound or video, that's the big four. Right, those are the underlying things. There's any number of rapidly evolving and more nuanced ways to do all of those things and you're starting to see some specialists in them now, like, I think, things like you know, eleven Labs has really focused on the voice emulation now and they're really like it is flawless. I mean, it's really super what you can do with generated, uh, voice. Now even they can get emotion and I think it's almost like the equivalent of musical notations, like you can say, you know, uh, you know pianissimo or or forte. You know you can give the intention of how you're supposed to play this piece. Uh, so you get a sense that they can say you know whispers, or quietly, or or excited, or giggles, or you know you can add the sentiment to the voice, and so you just think, just to know that, whatever you can imagine, you can get an audio that is flawless of your own voice or any voice that you want to create. You can create a. There is a tool or a set of tools that will allow you to prompt video, you know flawlessly, and that's going to constantly evolve. I mean, there are many tools that do like. It's kind of like this race that we're all in the first leg of the relay race here, and so it started out with Sora was able to create the video, and then the next you know, the VO three, you know less than a month ago, came out and is the far winner by now. So any time that you spend like learning that technical skill is I don't think that's going to be time well well spent, because there's any number of people who could do those things. So I think I'm more, you know, I'm more guessing and betting that imagination is going to be more valuable than industriousness in that. Dan: One thing, and I'd just like to get your take on this, that the crucial quality that makes human things work, human activities, human teamwork and everything is trust you know, and that you're actually dealing with something that you can trust. Ok, and I'm just wondering if the constant evolution of artificial intelligence is going to encourage people to make sure that they're actually dealing with the person in person, that you're actually dealing with another human being in person. Well, I see that in contact with this person or you've got some sort of encryption type mechanism that can guarantee you that the person that you're dealing with digitally is actually the person? And I'm just wondering, because humans, the need for trust overrides any kind of technology. Dean: I agree with you. I mean that's. I think we're going to see, I think we're going to see a more. We're going to react to that that we're going to value human, like I look at now that we are at a point that anything you see on video is immediately questioned that might be especially, yeah, especially if you, if it's introducing a new thought or it's counter to what you might think, or if it's trying to persuade you of something is. My immediate thought is is that real? You know, you know, I just wonder. You know what I was? I was thinking about Dan. You used to talk about the evolution of the signs. You know where it said the best Italian food on the street? Yeah, the evolution was in the town. Two furniture companies, yeah two furniture companies Best furniture. What was it? Dan: Yeah, best furniture companies, best furniture, what was it? Yeah, best furniture store on the street. So the other one comes back and says best, you know best furniture store in the town. And the other one says the other one comes back, state the other one comes back country. The other one comes back Western Hemisphere, the other one comes back planet, the other one comes back solar system and finally it's so far out, it's in the Milky Way. And the other one comes back and says best store on the street. Dean: Right, exactly, and I think that's where we're. I think that's where we're. Dan: Yeah. Anything to differentiate anything to differentiate, I mean the other thing is differentiation. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah and yeah, so no. I go back to Hayek. He's an economist, fa Hayek, and he said that he was talking about capitalism. And he said the big problem with capitalism is that it was named by its enemies. It was named by the whole group of people. You know, marx was the foremost person you know and he, you know, wrote a book, das Capital, you know, and everything else, and they thought it was all about capital. And he says actually, capital is actually a byproduct of the system. He said what capitalism is is an ever expanding system of increasing cooperation among strangers. He says it's just constant going out from ourselves where we can trust that we can cooperate with strangers. And he says most places in history and most places still on the planet, the only people you can trust are our friends and family our friends and family. That limits enormously cooperation, eliminates collaboration, eliminates innovation, eliminates everything if you can only trust the people that you know. He said that basically what capitalism is. It's got this amazing number of structures and processes and agreements and laws and everything that allow you to deal with someone you don't know halfway around the planet and money is exchanged and you feel okay about that and you know, there was a great book and I've recommended it again and again called the One-to-One Future. I've read it. Dean: I've read it. Yeah, yeah, this was written back in the 90s, yeah, and that was one of the things that they talked about was this privacy, that, and I don't see it happening as much, but we're certainly ready for it and and going to appreciate having a, an intermediary, having a trusted advocate for all of the things you know. That that's that we share everything with that one trusted person and trust them to vet and represent us out into the world. Dan: It's really interesting. It would have been at a Free Zone workshop, because those are the only workshops that I actually do, and somebody asked. Babs was in the room and they said that you know how many of your signups for the program you know, the last 12 months and you know we had just short of a thousand a thousand signups and you know, and we know what the influence was because we have the contact we have the, you know, we have the conversations between the salesperson and the person who signs up, and somebody asked how many of them come directly from direct referrals. It's 85%. It's not the only thing They'll read books. They'll see podcasts. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah and everything like that, but it's still that direct referral of someone whose judgment they totally trust is the deciding factor. Dean: Yes, yeah, amazing, right, and that's. Dan: I mean, here we are. We're 36 years down. We're using all kinds of marketing tools. We're using podcasts, we're using books. We're using books, we're using social media. And it struck me one day. I said how do people know me on social media? I said I never use social media. I've never. I've never. Actually, I don't even know how to. I don't even know how to use social media. Dean: I wouldn't know how to get on and everything else. Dan: So I went to our social media director and I said um, how am I on social media? He says dan, you're out there, there you're doing every day you're doing 100 things a day you know you know. and he went down the list of all the different uh platforms that I'm in and I said uh. I said oh, I didn't know that. I said, do I look good? He said oh, yeah. He says yeah, nothing but the best, but I'm just using it as a broadcast medium. You know, I'm not using it as an interactive medium. Right Well, I'm not. We're using it as an interactive medium, but I'm not. Dean: Right. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah, that's all that matters, right, I mean, and it's actually you, yeah, it's your words, but you're using, you know, keeping, like you say, somebody between you and the technology. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, always keep a smart person. Right A smart person between yourself and the technology. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah. So yeah, I was at the party. I had this party that was sort of a beach, had this party that was sort of a beach. You know, we have an island, but there are about 15 couples of one kind or another at the party last night, most of whom I didn't know, but I got talking and they were talking about the technology and everything like that. it was about a three person and myself and we were talking and they said, geez, you know, I mean it's driving me crazy and everything like that. And one of them said, dan, how are you approaching this? And I said, well, I'm taking a sort of different approach. And I just went through and I described my relationship to television, my relationship to social media, my relationship to the you know, my iPhone and everything else. And they said, boy, that's a really different approach. And I said, yeah, and I said you know we're growing, you know the company's growing, and you know everybody who needs to find out. what they need to find out is finding that out and everything else. So yeah, but I don't have to be involved in any of it. Dean: Right, yeah, you know, you're proof that it's. You can be in it, but not of it. Dan: Yeah, I think that's part of the thing. Yeah, but there's kind of a well, we're probably on this podcast, we're developing sort of an AI wisdom, because I think wisdom what matters is that you can adapt a particular strategy and just think of it, you know, and just stick with it. There's just something that you can stick with and it doesn't cause you any harm. Yeah, the one thing that I have learned is that the input between me and perplexity has to be 50-50. And the way I do it, dean, is I trigger everything with a fast filter, so I'll do the best result. You have just one box. I put the best result. You have just one box, I put the best result. That becomes the anchor of the particular project that I'm working on with Perpuxy. I'll just take it and stick it in there. Then I'll write one of the success criteria, okay, and then I'll take the success criteria and I said okay, now I want to create two paragraphs. Okay, so I've got the anchor paragraph and I've got this new paragraph. I want to take the central message of this success criteria and I want to modify whatever I wrote down in the lead and bring it back as a 100-word introduction where the success criteria has 50 words. Okay. And then what I'll do is I go to a mindset scorecard and I'll start creating mindsets and I'll take a mindset and I said, okay, I want to take this mindset and I want to change the meaning of the two paragraphs and it comes down and then after a certain point I said okay, let's introduce another. So I'm going back and forth where it's delivering a product but then I'm creating something new and inserting it into the product, and it's kind of like this back and forth conversation. Dean: You're using perplexity for this Perplexity yeah. Yeah. Dan: Yeah, and it has a really nice feeling to it that it's doing some magic. You know it's doing magic tricks. It's carrying out instructions instantaneously. You know three or four seconds. And then I read what I wrote and then it gives me a new idea. Then I write down the idea in the pass filter or the mindset scorecard and then I insert that new idea and say, okay, modify everything above with this new thought, and it's really terrific, it really works really great, yeah, okay, and you know it's, and what's really interesting about? I'll go do this. And then, down at the bottom, it creates a unique summary of everything that we're talking about, and I didn't ask it for a summary, but it creates a summary. Dean: That's amazing, isn't it? Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dean: Yeah, this is. You know. I really enjoyed the new tool that we did in the FreeZone workshop. This time I forget what the tool is called. Dan: I had three. I had the six-year your best six years ever. Was it that one we also? Dean: had. Always More Ambitious, always well, always more ambitious was great too, but yeah, that uh. But that six year your best six years ever is. That's such a good thing that if you just imagine that that's the, the lens that you're looking at the present through that, you're always. It's a durable thing. I try and explain to people I've had this framework of thinking in terms of the next hundred weeks is kind of a the long-term like actionable thing that you can have a big impact in a hundred weeks on something. But it's gonna happen kind of a hundred days at a time, kind of like quarters I guess, if you think about two years. But I've really found that everything comes down to the real actionable things are the next 100 hours and the next 100 minutes. And those I can find that I can allocate those 50 minute focus finders that. I do those sessions, it's like that's really the only. It's the only thing is to the extent that we're able to get our turn our ambitions into actions that correlate with those right that align, aligning our actions with our ambitions because a lot of people are ambitious on theoretically ambitious, uh, as opposed to applied ambition. Dan: They're not actionably ambitious. Dean: Actionably ambitious. I think that there's something to that, Dan. Dan: Yeah. Dean: And it's frustrating yeah. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I think that's a really good, theoretically ambitious, but not actionably ambitious, yeah, and I think that's a really good theoretically ambitious but not actually ambitious, yeah, and I think that theoretically ambitious just puts you totally in the gap really fast. Absolutely Okay, because you have no proof, you're never actually You're full of propositions. Yeah, I'm reading a book. Have you ever read any of Thomas Sowell? I? Dean: have not. Dan: Yeah, he's a 93, 94-year-old economist at Stanford University and he's got 60 years of work that he's done and he's got a great book. It's a book I'm going to read continually. I have about three or four books that I just read continually. One of them is called the Technological System by Jacques Hulot, a French sociologist, jacques Lull, french sociologist, and it does the best job of describing what technology does to people, what it does to organizations, when they're totally reactive to it. Dean: You know in other words. Dan: They have no sense of agency regarding technology. They're just being impacted, and it's really good. He wrote it probably in the 60s or 70s and it's just got a lot of great observations in it. Dean: And. Dan: I've read it. I've probably read it. I started reading it in 1980, and I've probably read it three or four times. One book fell apart because there was so much notes and online Really Wow. Yeah, the binding fell apart. Dean: What's it called again? It's called the. Dan: Technological System. Dean: The. Dan: Technological System. Jacques, you know Elal and there's quite a good YouTube interview with him If you want to look it up. It's about 25, 30 minutes and very, very, very engaging mind. He really gets you to think when he talks about it. But the book that I'm talking about right now, this is Thomas Sowell. It's called Intellectuals and Society and he said if you take all the intellectuals in the world and you put all their sense of how the world works, at best it could represent 1% of the knowledge that's needed for the world to run every day the other 99%, and he calls it the difference between specialized knowledge and mundane knowledge. Okay, so specialized knowledge is where somebody really goes deep, really goes deep into something and then develops. You know, if the whole world would just operate according to what I'm seeing here, it would be a better world. And he says, and he said that's the intellectual approach. You know, I've I've really thought this deeply, and therefore what I want now is for someone to impose this on the planet. So, I feel good. But, he says what actually makes the world work is just everybody going about their business and working out rules of, you know, teamwork, rules of action, transaction work. And he says and intellectuals have no access to this knowledge whatsoever because they're not involved in everyday life, they're off. You know they're looking down from a height and saying you know, I'd like to reorganize this whole thing, have the mundane knowledge are now being able to really get multiply the value that they're just getting out of their daily interactions at an exponentially high speed and that the intellectuals are probably. The intellectuals are just if they're using AI. They're just doing that to multiply their theories. But they're not actionable ambition, they're theoretical. Theoretically ambitious right, yeah, yeah. Dean: Yeah, that's really interesting looking at the uh, you know, I think that there's, you know, kind of a giant leap from proposition to proof. Oh yeah, in the in the vision column is like that's it's worth so much. Uh, because intellectually that that's the. It's a different skill set to turn a proof into a protocol and a protocol into a protected package. You know, those don't require creative solution and I'm finding the real like the hotspot leverage points, like in the capability column. It's ability is the multiplier of capability. Dan: Yeah. Dean: You know, because that then can affect capacity and cash, you know. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you take it. I mean never have human beings had so many capabilities available to them but do they have any ability to go along with the capabilities? Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Dean: And I think that that part of that ability is to recognize it. You know, vision ability to recognize the excess capacity that they have, you know. Dan: And. Dean: I think that that trusted you know. Dan: The leverageable point in the reach column is the you know a heart level, like an endorsed uh being access to somebody else's um, to somebody else's trust level yeah, relationships yeah it's so it's amazing like I just like that I've seen so much opportunity AI introduced chat, gpt, that we're at a major this is a major jump, like language itself almost. I often go back and say I wonder who the first tribe? That was probably a tribe that developed a language so that they could communicate. You know where they could keep adding vocabulary. You know they could keep adding vocabulary and that they must have just taken over everything immediately. They just totally took over just because of their speed of teamwork, their speed of getting things done. And then the next one was writing when they could write. And then you have another jump, because with writing came reading and then the next one came printing. You know, and I thought that when the microchip came in and you had digital language, I said this is the next gem. But digital language is just a really, really fast form of printing actually. It's just fast, but artificial intelligence is a fundamental breakthrough. So, we're right at the beginning. Gutenberg is like 1455, and it must have been amazing to him and the people who knew about him that he could produce what it would take, you know, a hand writer would take months and months that he could produce one in a matter of you know hours. He could produce in hours, but as many as you wanted. Dean: I wonder what the trickle down, like you know the transition, how long it took to eliminate the scribe industry. Dan: Well, I will tell you this that they have statistics that within 40 years after Gutenberg there were 30,000 presses across northern Europe. So it took off like a rocket. You know it took off. And I mean, and you know, and it I mean in the next 150 years, we're just pure turmoil politically, economically, culturally in. Europe after that came and I think we're in that. We're in that period right now. We're feeling it, yeah, I think so too. Everybody's going to have to have a newcomer. Dean: Yeah, that's right. Dan: Probably on rescue all day 60 minutes at a time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway. What have we gotten today? What have we? What's the garden produced today? Dean: Well, I think that this, I think we had this thought of, I think you and I always come the two types of abilities. Well, the capability and the ability. No, theoretically ambitious and actionability Actionability- Theoretically ambitious and actionably ambitious. Dan: The vast majority of people are theoretically ambitious. Dean: They're not actionable. Yes. Dan: I think that's a good distinction. Dean: I do too. That was what I was going to say that level and I think that the you know, when you see more that the I think, being an idea person, like a visionary, it's very difficult to see that there's a lot of people that don't have that ability. But you don't, because we take it for granted that we have that ability to see things and and have that uh, access to that. It doesn't feel like you know almost like you can't uh, you've got the curse of knowledge. We know what it's like to constantly have vision and see things, that the way things could be, um, and not really realize that most people don't have that, and I think it's we discount it, um, or you can't discount it by thinking, well, that that can't be do you know what I? mean that there's got to be more to. It mean there's got to be, more to it. Well, that's the easy part or whatever, but it's not and that's yeah. I think that the more I saw Kevin Smith, the filmmaker, the director. He was on there's a series online called the Big Think and they have, you know, different notable people talking about just their life philosophies or the things, and he said something that on his, the moment he decided to move into being kevin smith professionally, that that, the more he just decided to double down on just being more kevin smith for a living it's like he's really without using the words of unique ability or those things that that was the big shift for him is just to realize that the unique view, vision, perspective that he has is the more he doubles down on that, the more successful things have been for him. Yep, yep. So there's nothing you know, you've been Dan Sullivan professionally or professional. Dan Sullivan for years. Dan: Yeah Well, 51, 51. Yeah, yeah, uh, it's created all sorts of tools. I mean uh you know, I remember the psychiatrist I went to the amen clinic to receive my um add diagnosis, you know because he's got. He's got about seven different types of ADD. Dean: Yes, which one do you? Dan: have. Yeah well, mine's not hyperactive at all. Dean: No me neither yeah. Dan: I mean it takes a lot to get me to move, Anyway, but mine is the constant being barbaric. It's sort of I'm thinking of this and then all of a sudden I think of something else. Dean: And then. Dan: now I've got two things to think about, and then the third one wants to join the party and everything else, and meanwhile I had something to do this morning and I just blew right past it. Dean: Anyway. Dan: Right, yeah, so anyway, but I had filled in. There's like 100 questions that you have to fill in online before they'll even accept you, and you know what's your day look like. You know mine pretty relaxed, good structure, everything like that. But the test, they do all sorts of brain scans. They test out concentration, they test out how long you can maintain attention on something. They do it at rest, they do it after exercise and everything like that. It's about three days. There's about nine hours of it that they do. And so we got together and she said you know, if you look at how you answered our questionnaire, online and you look at our test. These are in separate universes. They don't have any relationship to each other. To each other. She said I've never seen such a wide span between the two. So well, I'm sorry, you know we just pretty soon we got to what I do for a living and I said well, I create thinking tools for entrepreneurs. And so I told her, I gave her a couple of examples and she said well, I don't know who else you created these for, but you sure created them for yourself. And that's really what we do. Is that what we are best at in the marketplace is what we're trying to figure out for ourselves? Dean: Yes, I think that's absolutely true. Dan: We sell our therapies to others, that's right. We want to see if our self-therapies go beyond ourselves. Dean: Yeah, exactly. Dan: Yeah, yeah, all righty. Dean: Okay Dan. That was a good one, yeah, are we on next week? Dan: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, Perfect, perfect, okay, I'll be back. Dean: I'll meet you here. Dan: Okay, thanks Bye, thanks Bye. Thanks for watching.
À travers des propos du Or Ha'haïm Hakadoch et de Rav Bergman, ce cours explique en quoi a consisté la faute de Mé Mériva (lors de laquelle Moché Rabbénou a frappé un rocher au lieu de lui parler).
Kiera is joined by Ryan Isaac of Dentist Advisors to dive into DSOs. They discuss such questions as: Are they the best financial choice for your practice? The best life choice? Are the horror stories true? And so many more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am freaking jazzed for today's podcast. It has been way too long. Me and this guest talk quite often on like life and personal and business, but podcasting it's been a hot minute. I've got Ryan Isaac from Dentist Advisors, my personal advisor, one of my dearest friends. I think we're siblings in another life. Ryan, welcome to the show today. How are you? Ryan Isaac (00:07) Mm-hmm. Thank Thank you. I'm really good. just realized I was trying to hit mute and cough, but I hit like a chapter marker instead. So there you go. To your listeners or your ⁓ editing team, then there's a chapter marker while I'm coughing. So in your intro. Yeah. Tis the season. Kiera Dent (00:35) You're welcome. Yeah, that's fine. I'm okay with it. This is real life. We're sitting on, I mean, Ryan, you're sitting on the couch. I should get like my posh chair. I've been considering changing up my podcasting zone. Yeah, of course. All of us can see it. We're excited for that. Ryan Isaac (00:40) Hahaha Can I show you? Can I just give you a little vibe check here? I mean, it's actually, that's the ocean. I'm on a little summer getaway for a second. So yeah. Yeah. Kiera Dent (00:54) my gosh. That's amazing. So that's Ryan's life. Ryan's living his rich life over there. He's like truly. So, okay. If you're new to the podcast, Ryan is my personal advisor. Like truly he actually works on. We talk about my life. He's helped me make some really good decisions and not make some bad decisions. So I feel like financial advisors. My best advice is you gotta just find someone you trust. And I know Ryan is way more conservative than me, but cares about me as an individual so strongly. And Ryan, huge kudos to you. And so we talk about it a lot, but something we talk often is like, what's our rich life? And I remember Ryan for years, you were like living in your van, truly driving to California all the time to be by the beach, because you love surfing so much. So it just makes me so happy to see that you are living your best life by the ocean. You're doing what you teach all of your clients to do of living their version of a best life. Something that we try to do in dentistry and dental team too, like, hey, let's help your business provide you the best dream life you want. So that's Ryan. Ryan Isaac (01:36) Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you. And there's no there's no right way to do that. I mean, everyone has their own thing that's worth the money or worth spending on. We're just kind of joking around about this, too. There are people who will sit in ⁓ small rentals or apartments on millions of dollars because to them having lots of security and liquidity is more valuable than houses or everyone's got something different. But, you know, we're all we're all chasing it, hopefully. Kiera Dent (01:57) Catch y'all. I think it's called the like emotional ROI and what helps you sleep at night in your financial world. So Ryan and I usually get on the podcast and we'll talk about finances. I mean, obviously dentist advisors, Ryan do a spiel. What is dentist advisors? Just so people know. I think you guys are financial advisors for dentists specifically. I'm not a dentist, but I can speak honestly, but a spiel. And then we're going to actually go like a hard left turn of what we're going to talk about today. Like really. Ryan Isaac (02:26) Ooh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Thank you. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, our on ramps coming up here really soon. We got to get over it. We got to get into the right lane. Dentist advisor started ⁓ almost A Team years ago now with me and Reese Harper. Shout out to Reese Harper. And yeah, we were dedicated to being ⁓ an independent fiduciary fee only ⁓ advisor for dentists to manage investments and give financial advice. Ultimately, Kiera Dent (02:51) Yep. Shout out to Reese. Ryan Isaac (03:17) you know, a dentist path through school and debt and taxes and all the stuff they go through, ⁓ you know, buying a practice, building businesses. There's no reason why all of that should not pay off every it should pay off for every dentist. There is enough money to be made in dentistry. And so our job really and you kind of said this with the you know, in the intro, ⁓ I really do feel like just protecting my clients, you know, and that's a philosophy that we've. built into our business. There's no reason why dentists shouldn't make it to the life they want and to the finish line financially. so, you know, ⁓ it's more about consistent, small, good decisions for long periods of time and avoiding like a few big mistakes that could derail you forever. So yeah, we have a custom financial planning process, ⁓ a lot of like reporting and data, and we just manage and track ⁓ dentist finances and make sure they end up in a good spot, safe and healthy and Happy, hopefully. Kiera Dent (04:15) which I love about you guys, Ryan, and I really think you guys do a great job. And this is something you've taught me. And we have a friend who said a great quote that I feel should be your quote. I can't give it like, so you can take it and like make your version. But they said like regular investing is like vanilla ice cream. It won't make anyone jealous, but it always tastes good. And I felt like that's such a great way to look at how you've taught me how to invest. ⁓ At the end of the day, it's just a small, consistent thing. So I think Dentist advisors does really well. And Ryan, something you've done for me. ⁓ Ryan Isaac (04:24) well. Okay, okay. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. . Kiera Dent (04:44) Like it's so dumb, but I know you're watching me and I know like when I, like you're really not watching me, but I feel like you're watching me. Ryan Isaac (04:49) Yeah, well, let's hold that disclaimer here for a second. I see your numbers. I see your accounts. I see your emails. Every time you save money, I'm like, Kiera, good job in the email thread. Gold stars. Yeah. Kiera Dent (04:53) Like, I know he's not, like, he watches my account for sure. That's all it is. And I just know having Ryan there where I need to send it in every single month of what we're going to invest. We've talked about the plan has been such a game changer for me. So that's why I love Dentist Advisors. And like we said, we're now like taking our off ramp because Ryan and I want to talk about DSO sales. I think this definitely implies to a financial advisor. We have a lot of clients that we send to Dentist Advisors. We work such hand in hand with both sides. Like we love what you guys do. You love what we do. It's Ryan Isaac (05:19) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (05:30) Truly like the best peanut butter and jelly sandwich or whatever your favorite. If you want this to be meat and cheese, peanut butter and honey, whatever it is, I think it's the best duo. Yeah, exactly. That is the best. Captain Crunch, but would you rather Captain Crunch or Reese's? Or. Ryan Isaac (05:37) Captain Crunch in 2 % milk, you know. No. I would actually say fruity or cocoa pebbles, to be honest with you. Or cinnamon toast crunch. Can we arrive there? Okay. Kiera Dent (05:52) We both disagree on that. So cool. Okay, can handle Golden Grahams or are we like back to the s'mores run? Remember the s'mores Golden Graham? Ryan Isaac (06:00) Yeah, I do remember the scores. How are we like not landing on the same one at all? What about honey butches of oats? Wow. Okay. ⁓ Kiera Dent (06:05) It's okay. That's fine. I'm not like the biggest serial fan and I go through phases. I love Lucky Charms, but I'm not joking. Those marshmallows give me the chills. Like I can't crunch into it without it being like full body chills. So I don't know. weird. But back on this. So we've actually had a lot of clients that are debating of do I sell? I sell to a DSO? And I'm like, talk to freaking Ryan. Ryan Isaac (06:18) Yeah, it's like biting Styrofoam. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. you Kiera Dent (06:32) I don't know what you want to do for your retirement. I have no clue how this is gonna impact you with your taxes. I don't know all the stuff, but what I do know is I'm a freaking miracle girl, so we're gonna get you top dollar for your cell, but like let's talk DSO. Cause also like DSO to not DSO, like I don't know Ryan, there's a million things. So let's Rift. You wanted to talk about this. I love this. Let's do it. Ryan Isaac (06:41) Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, and so you said something a few minutes ago about ⁓ dentist investments. And yeah, like our job is to help manage investment money for people ⁓ in a really long term kind of boring way, if we're being honest. But yeah, it's very yeah, it's just like it'll be there forever. Just let it do its thing. But the biggest investment any owner is going to have is their practice. And that is the thing Kiera Dent (07:08) vanilla ice cream ish. Ryan Isaac (07:18) is why you and a team is so important because the thing they should protect above everything is their practice investment, their business investment. There's nothing more impactful to a dentist's entire life and not just their money, but their entire lifestyle, probably their mental health, their wellbeing, where and who they spend their time with. So it is by far the most important factor in all of this. And so the world that we're in now is that DSOs are an option to sell to, to work with, to become a part of. They are in some shape or form, you know, supposed to become the majority of the industry in the future. I think that's a broad category. think the category is more like group practice will become the majority of the industry. I'd love to hear what stats you've heard and what you actually see. think people talk about, you know, 60 to 70 % consolidation in the industry. becoming some kind of DSO or group practice. ⁓ yeah. Kiera Dent (08:19) Yeah, I was actually at an AI conference with that just literally this last week. And they said that they're estimating 65 % of the market will become in the DSL world in the next like five to 10 years. So I think a lot of people are expecting, which is so funny to me because I remember, gosh, I think I was Mark, this is a long time ago, we were at the dental college. And so we're probably talking like, Ryan Isaac (08:32) Uh-huh. Yeah, okay. Kiera Dent (08:46) 2018, 2019, I remember talking to the students, like, what do you think is gonna happen? And I'm like, I know I'm unpopular, because even Mark wasn't on board with this. And I'm like, I think I'm unpopular, but I'm pretty confident DSOs will be the future. And they're like, you're full of it. They're like, there's no way. And I'm like, I mean, I'm not emotionally invested in this, but if I look at what's going on, my husband's in healthcare. This is what happened to pharmacies. This is what happened to mom and pop shops, like for medical. Ryan Isaac (08:57) Mmm. Yeah. Kiera Dent (09:14) I cannot think for one second the dentistry and with the EBITDA like offers that you're getting, it doesn't matter. And Jason, were talking about this the other night. I'm like, even if doctors want to have a legacy practice, that's great. You sell to this person, but this person now is younger. They have more debt and DSOs is like one bad day and this DSOs right on their doorstep. They're going to sell. Like it's just, I mean, you've got to some really strong guts around you to not think about a DSO. And I think DSOs, Ryan Isaac (09:42) Hmm. Kiera Dent (09:44) can often hit you at emotional times. Like Brian, you know me. There have been times that I told you like someone offered me a buck for Dental A Team, they could have it like one bad day. It's just like shirt. Like everybody has it in business ownership. So I think that that's where the DSOs are super attractive to people. But like I was talking to an office yesterday who's considering working with us and they're like have a one year buyout. And they're like, we're thinking about doing this DSO. And I was like, all right, but like what's your ultimate end game? What are you trying to achieve? Ryan Isaac (09:46) Mm-hmm. yeah. Yeah. yeah. We all have those days. Yeah. Kiera Dent (10:12) you met with other people to talk about DSOs, there are other options and he's like, well, it's too big for these partners to buy. I'm like, well, it's actually not like there's ways for partners to buy you out if you want. think it's just, DSOs feel like the easy button, but I don't know if they're really easy. And I think that that's where I'm a little bit on the fence and I'm super jazzed for us to rift on. Is it really the best financial choice? Is it the best life choice? I don't know, Ryan, you know, the finances more than I do. just. Ryan Isaac (10:14) It's on. Mm-hmm. Same. Yeah. Yeah. Kiera Dent (10:40) I do good job of helping people get their assets where they want them to be. So they have choices and options of what they want to do. Ryan Isaac (10:42) You do. Yeah, so I think, you know, it makes a lot of logical sense, especially the way it started with DSOs, that it would have gobbled up a lot of the industry. Hearing 70 % made a lot of sense to me. Maybe we're just in a dip in a lull, which we totally have become, we've entered into that because of the, you know, the debt and rate situation that happened over last few years in inflation and, you know, just interest rates. Money got really expensive. It was hard for a lot of companies to grow across a lot of industries. And, uh, but, and I, I'm, uh, I want to say these statistics correctly, uh, from smarter people than me in the DSO space. I think there's something like maybe, you know, 350 to 400 technical DSOs in the country right now. And I've heard in multiple sources that up to a third of them are in some kind of financial receivership right now. Meaning, and I know you've seen this with clients too. DSOs have grown and they purchase and they borrowed money and then rates hit them and they grew too fast. They went ahead of themselves and they defaulted. And ⁓ there are some major DSOs, huge ones that I did not ever think would happen that went into default that are going bankrupt that are changing ownership. ⁓ People are losing their equity money, they're not going to get their payouts. ⁓ And they're they don't own their practices anymore. I mean, there, we have some clients in that situation. So Yes to the consolidation in the future of that because of just that's the nature of economy sometimes in industries. And I don't know if it's going to hit 70. I don't know. It makes me wonder. ⁓ Those multiples are down a lot than they than they used to be. And they'll probably you know, they'll probably fluctuate, come back up a little bit more when money gets easier. ⁓ Kiera Dent (12:22) I don't know anything. Ryan Isaac (12:36) Also, I think people are getting a little bit wiser to it. Do you see this? I mean, let's say three to five years ago, it was the most exciting thing to get an offer sheet across your desk and be like, know, some multiple of you, but this is insane, I'm done. I do find people way more hesitant and not as excited about that number anymore. What have you seen with that when people see those initial numbers? Kiera Dent (12:47) Made it. think people are way smarter. think the grads coming out of school have been trained on business a lot more than say dentists 20, 34 years ago are trained and not to say dentists 20, 30 years ago weren't. I just think it wasn't like we weren't talking EBITDAs. You weren't selling like this. So you didn't there was no need for it. ⁓ And I think in the past, I think the reason people are more skeptical right now, Ryan, is because they're hearing the like horror stories coming through. So people are like, hold on. Maybe it's not as like Ryan Isaac (13:12) It's different. Yeah. Kiera Dent (13:28) rosy as it was. I honestly like DSOs might be a little bit of dentistry's dirty secret. Like there's a small piece of me feeling that way and not all DSOs I'm not here to blanket statement it, but I do think there's like, think the dentist is the one getting ripped off in the whole scenario. like, because Ryan helped me, this is where I, guys welcome. This is what Ryan and I used to talk about off camera, but I'm just going to like have the conversation here because I'm curious. So your clients, okay, so hold on. Ryan Isaac (13:43) Mm-hmm. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, huh? Kiera Dent (13:58) answer your question, no, they're not as excited about it. And also I think that they're being flooded with a bajillion offers. And so almost like overwhelm of who the heck do I have? Who do I trust? Who do I know? 400 DSOs out there. They're being bombarded every single day. I have heard dentists tell me they get four to five offers every single day of a DSO, which is why I'm like one bad day, you click open an email and like bottom, bottom, there you go. So I do think Bron and Man. Ryan Isaac (14:02) Yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, you're done. Like, yeah, that's the buyer. Yeah, take it. Yeah. Kiera Dent (14:22) Brandon Moncrief with Dental Transitions is probably the smartest DSO man I've met and I think you and I have circled. He's really brilliant on like who he knows offers that you can get like he kind of knows how to navigate the DSO world of what you want, which I think is awesome. But what I'm curious on Ryan. Okay, so you said you have clients. So when you sell to a DSO, there's lots of different makeups of how they can do these deals for you. But let's say there's I think the most standard one I usually hear is they pay you about 50 % of your practice is worth like you're giving it to them. Ryan Isaac (14:24) Yes. Yeah, I still send people there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (14:52) You also have them 50 % in equity in their business, hoping like with stock shares, hoping that it builds and that's like basically your payout. So it helps with tax. It helps with like future investments of the EBITDA. Those are the things that they're going to be dealing with. But my question is, so like your clients, they sold, they don't own their practices anymore. They're an associate there now ⁓ and they're getting paid. They don't have to do the management, billing's taken off of them, hiring, all that. But let's say these, so let's say I sold to Ryan Isaac DSO. Ryan doesn't have a DSO just for clarity, but let's pretend I'm dentist. We got to make sure I don't want him getting in trouble. He's a financial advisor. So Ryan doesn't have it. okay, we're selling, okay, lies. We're selling it to Captain Crunch DSO. All right, let's just go safe. Captain Crunch DSO. Captain Crunch buys me. I'm now, I got my 50 % payout. have 50 % equity in Captain Crunch DSO and I'm now working as a dentist there, but I don't own my practice anymore. Ryan Isaac (15:23) Yeah, just so we're clear here. Yeah, yeah. I've highly regulated. Yeah, might be in trouble for that. Kiera Dent (15:49) Captain Crunch DSO is growing, growing, growing. Everything's looking good. I've got my stock in it. Captain Crunch loses its funding. They go bankrupt. What happens to me? Because odds are they go bankrupt. Another like lucky charms DSO is going to come buy Captain Crunch. Like they get a penny, dollar. What happens to me as the dentist when Captain Crunch goes under, but then lucky charms comes to buy me. How does that work for me as a dentist? Ryan Isaac (16:02) Yeah. Yeah, I'm watching that happen right now with a gigantic national specialty DSO with some clients. And what has happened is that their equity money is likely gone. So they got their payout money. Kiera Dent (16:19) Mm-hmm. Even with Lucky Charms coming in to buy it. My equity money's gone because it was with Captain Crunch. Do you love that I did cereal for you? Ryan Isaac (16:28) Thank I love it. It's so good. And I'm trying to like, like who's more evil in this hierarchy, you know? Kiera Dent (16:35) I think Lucky Charms isn't more evil. Lucky Charms is one who capitalized. They saw a dill. They don't care about the dentist. I'm not saying that they don't, but it's like hungry, hungry hippos. One goes out, someone's going to come buy it all. That's what they're going to do. Ryan Isaac (16:37) Who's more well capitalized? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this would be such a good question for Brandon again, and I'll just second that every time someone has questions about deals, or they want to compare things, ⁓ or get to know the space a lot more, I send them to Brandon. So just find Brandon Monacree, if he's on all over the internet and all of our content. Yeah, there you go. So it depends on the structure of the deal. It depends on the fine print and the paperwork. ⁓ In the ones I'm seeing right now, these dentists Kiera Dent (17:04) dentaltransitions.com. Yeah, he's everywhere. Ryan Isaac (17:17) lot, their practices are not there. So their practices are still gone. And they likely are not going to they're definitely not going to get any return on their equity. Some of them depending on how early they got in might get their equity back or, or parts of their equity back. But a lot of it's just, you know, when another company when a big financial company comes in to save a bankrupt company, it's ruthless, you know, I mean, they're they're cutting and they're scrapping as much as they possibly legally can. they'll do that, of course, because that's good business for them. So what I'm seeing, and again, I'll just say that it's probably different in every single scenario of this. But what I'm seeing is one that happens. ⁓ These dentists are losing their practices, they're not getting any return on their equity money, and many of them probably won't even get their full equity back. Luckily, some of my clients that I'm thinking of were in early enough and the fine print of their deals was good enough that they're going to get some of their equity money back. Kiera Dent (17:48) course. Ryan Isaac (18:15) ⁓ that's it. They're done. So what really happened in that transaction was they got front loaded a certain amount of years of income, paid some taxes, paid off their debts and lost their practices and worked a job for three or four years at a very low salary compared to what they produce. ⁓ many of them got really burned out, bombed out, kind of lost their fire and spark for the work. ⁓ And they're back to square one. Some of them have enough money to be finished. What is interesting though is even the ones who have enough money to be finished are still contemplating starting or buying another practice where they can legally and doing like a really chill lifestyle two day a week thing. Really common. Other people will fully lose their equity. And in a situation, again, back to your point, a lot of people are Kiera Dent (18:54) and Ryan Isaac (19:05) Maybe it's not as excited about this. The multiples aren't what they were. Then they could come back. I don't know. A lot of people just say the longer this goes, the smaller the multiples will become, which is, yeah. No, we're definitely not. And so now we're talking about an offer where someone's coming to you to take away like your main, main asset, your cash cow, the biggest thing in your whole life. They're going to front load five or six years of income. You have to pay taxes and pay off your debt with that money first. Kiera Dent (19:13) which I would agree on that completely. I don't think we're half as high. Ryan Isaac (19:33) The deals that you mentioned, some are 50-50. I've seen them in thirds where it's like third buyout, third earn out where you have to keep producing and then a third equity. I've seen them 70-30, 60-40. They can really be any shape or size. ⁓ Yeah, but they're smaller. And so now we're talking about, you know, five or six years of front loaded income. You pay taxes, pay off your debt, and then you just hope that this company that bought you and essentially what's happening if you think about it. Kiera Dent (19:48) They really are. Ryan Isaac (20:02) You're taking like seven figures of money and you're putting it into a single stock. You're investing into a single stock and it's a very small privately held company. I know it feels safe and secure because it's your field, it's dentistry, know, all these things are, but you're taking seven figures of your money and you're putting into one single company where right now maybe up to a third of these companies are failing. Kiera Dent (20:08) Thank Ryan Isaac (20:30) It's not not a gamble, you know, and the whole kicker in all these deals, as you know, and your audience knows, Kiera is all in that equity piece. Everything else is just front loading your income for the next five or six years and taking away your ownership. And then, you know, really changing the nature of your career and your work. And it really does change people. It changes. And I'm not saying it's always for the worse, but it is change changes, teams changes, the patient experience changes, the culture and the vibe. Kiera Dent (20:34) huh. ⁓ huh. Mm-hmm. Ryan Isaac (21:00) And so if that one little equity piece does not pan out the way that they say it's going to, ⁓ you know, that's the part that everyone's kind of wising up to. And if you're under, let's say, your late 50s, if you're younger than your late 50s, I think it's becoming a tougher decision for people to make. in late 50s or above, it's kind of like, I'm done anyway in three or four or five years. Might as well get top dollar. even if the equity doesn't fully pan out all the way, it might be more than a private buyer. But even then, I've seen the math on a lot of things and like, it's close. And yeah, you've seen it all too. So yeah, it's tough. It's tough to watch the ones that fail. ⁓ Some of these, some of these, and you've probably seen, we're not going to name anybody, but you've probably seen them too. Huge practices, multi-location, huge DSOs that now... Kiera Dent (21:25) Mm-hmm. Agreed. Mm-hmm. Ryan Isaac (21:52) own these practices. And okay, here's a question for you. What do you think is going to happen, let's say 10 years down the road or longer, when all these DSOs have been bought by the next company and been bought by the next company? And then in the end, some like third and fourth party removed private equity firm, international private equity firms holding 10s of 1000s of dental practices around the country? What is that like in the industry? mean, you're in the practice as you know that you're like in the heartbeat of that. What does that mean for the industry? What does that feel like? Does it feel weird? Kiera Dent (22:27) It does feel weird. And I think this is where I've been, I don't know, Ryan, you know me. just sit over here and think of ideas all day long. I've been like, how can we like, hi, I'm Kiera. I live in Reno, Nevada right now. It's like, how can some, I feel like I'm like Dorothy in Kansas right now. It's fine. It wasn't the destination, but it ended up being, it's fine. It's got really great. No state income tax. All right. That's really one of the main reasons we're here. It's not. Ryan Isaac (22:42) I like to write now by the way. Just a little shout out. like to write now. Yeah. Loud and clear. Yeah. Yeah, fine. It's pretty in some seasons. There you Kiera Dent (22:55) But it's okay. We have Lake Tahoe. ⁓ Ryan Isaac (22:55) go. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Kiera Dent (22:59) But only half of Lake Tahoe because California owns the other half. So it's okay. But I've thought about it. like, how can, like, it's like I'm Dorothy in Wizard of Oz right now. It's like, how can we somehow influence these private equity firms? And there might be no way. But these are the questions I think of often, because I do think if we're not careful, it will radically shift the way dentistry is done. And it will turn into a business rather than into our Ryan Isaac (23:02) Yeah, you're half. Okay. Kiera Dent (23:24) our healthcare profession. I mean, I look at modern medicine, my husband's in it and it is a freaking drill machine. Like his number one thing was patient productivity and they had to have so many patients, otherwise they were going to fire providers. And their providers worked hard. They weren't getting paid what they like want to get paid. And so I'm actually watching in healthcare, lots of my friends in healthcare, nurse practitioners, doctors branch off and go open up their own practices because they're sick of working in modern medicine. So I'm like, Ryan Isaac (23:24) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kiera Dent (23:51) if we can look at modern medicine and see how the healthcare system has been working and how can we do something now as like you said, third, fourth remove private equity, owning all these dental practices, like is there a path? And I don't know, right? Like this is I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting in Kansas of like how on earth can we influence it? But I'm like, if enough brilliant people start thinking this way, what can we do now to show that you can be profitable and ethical and still give great dentistry where we're not having to like, Ryan Isaac (24:08) Hmm. Yeah. Kiera Dent (24:21) not running it like a private equity business, but still showing. so Britt was like, we need to become the Wegmans. Like, have you been like up north, like Wegmans is an amazing grocery store. They're not the biggest, but they still are ethical. And I'm like, if we even had a few private equity that's third and fourth removed that would still run practices that way, I think dentistry would still feel the same. Something else though, that I think of like new dentists coming in that I think is really paramount is you've got to look at the future of the industry. I think the current doctors, Ryan Isaac (24:39) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (24:50) that have been in dentistry have like safeguarded and kept dentistry like we're healthcare when we want to be and we're not healthcare when it doesn't benefit us. Like we literally have straddled the spine line. It's still a little bit of the wild wild west dentistry is not as regulated as far as like our fees and like what we're able to charge in every single practice and like insurance is schmuck. get it. But I'm like, you also only have $2,000 of max most of the time that we're dealing with rather than it being like a hundred percent of what your patient base is and like what the patients are paying out. So I'm like, Ryan Isaac (25:11) Yeah. Kiera Dent (25:19) I feel the pioneers of dentistry have actually done a really good job of setting it up to where dentistry is still very profitable. It's still able to be its own thing that I'm like, let's, again, I feel like I'm like Dorothy sitting on my soap box in the middle of prairie fields and saying like, hey, why don't we take a pause and just think of like, what's the future of dentistry as now the future pioneers of dentistry? And what are we going to do to our profession? Yes, there's top dollar. Yes, there's things about it, but is there a way to influence? and make sure that the integrity of dentistry can maintain long-term. I have no answer to that, but again, this is Kiera Dent sitting on my podcast where I think that there is a voice and an influence and like on Dentist Advisors podcast, is there a way that we can influence our industry in ways that will protect and still pay out? Because I'm like, even if you don't get the 10X EBITDA, you still can get a freaking great payout if you do your life right to where you can be financially set up. Ryan Isaac (25:51) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Kiera Dent (26:17) still be able to sell your practice, not have to sell it in ways that could potentially hurt the industry. I'm not saying one's the right answer or the wrong answer. There's no judgment on my side. It's just, let's maybe think and consider how it could influence. Can we get people that could be private equity higher up that could help protect it? Those are things that, and again, I'm just Kiera Dent here in Reno, Ryan Isaac (26:22) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Same, okay. Okay. Yes. Kiera Dent (26:38) Yeah, of course. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time. Ryan Isaac (26:37) Thank you. Kiera Dent (26:42) the Dental A Team Podcast.
以伊戰爭暫時停戰，市場慢慢消退戰爭帶來的短期風險，回到持續正增長的軌道，而聯準會也釋出轉鴿的信號，市場再度聚焦審判日的到來以及美國有哪些即將公布的經濟措施與法案？ 本集邀請美國研究員 Ralice 來聊聊，大而美麗法案的後續、美國金融監管的鬆綁、以及 GENIUS 法案背後的隱藏目的！
Shocking New Witness Revealed In Court! #doordashwitness #idaho 4 case #anntaylor Shocking new witness may be able to identify Bryan Kohbeeger in a white Hyunda in front of 1122 King Road prior to the murders. This eyewitness testimony from a door dash driver could blow this case wide open. This witness known as MM is the second eyeball witness.
Shootings continue in Meridain Overnight- Two people were shot in separate incidents overnight. A string of accidents sent several people to the hospital Thursday afternoon. A three-car pile up slowed traffic near Rodney's Muffler, I-20 at MM 124 slowed traffic, a minivan crashed on Walker Bottom Road in the Clarkdale Community, totaling the vehicle. Newton PD is investigating a Death; no details have been released. Quitman welcomed the Groundbreaking Ceremony at Howard Industries, bringing jobs to Clarke County. #scottyrayreport #morning #weather #headlines
On EP310 we talked about the expiring contracts of MM and JT. We also poked around the league at other free agent targets.
How did you end up in the property management industry? Becoming an entrepreneur is often a difficult and lonely path with many ups and downs along the way. Many property management business owners are miserable in their own businesses. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with property manager and DoorGrow client Derek Morton to discuss how he was able to build his property management business and team around himself. You'll Learn [01:53] The Entrepreneurial Struggle [09:03] Building a Business Based on Humanity and Care [26:48] The Impact of The Right Company Culture and Team [38:57] Masterminding with Savvy Property Managers Quotables “Property management really is a business of relationships.” “If people fail me, sometimes I don't have a proportional response. So why would I expect anyone else to act differently?” ”Your internal beliefs really, I think, shape the environment that we allow or create around ourselves.” “If you're relying on team members, it's really dumb to think you've got all of the best ideas and nobody else is as smart as you.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Derek: Sarah was like, "Hey, you did all this stuff, how did you do it?" And I'm like, I don't know. And so we went back and we ran the numbers. 88% of my growth has come from my network and just those relationships. [00:00:13] Jason: They say your network is your net worth, right? [00:00:15] Jason: Okay. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management business owners. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. [00:00:32] Jason: At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. We are like bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses, done websites for hundreds more than that, and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate, high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:01:16] Jason: That's our mission statement. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:27] Jason: So I'm hanging out today with one of our clients, Derek Morton, over at Net Gain Property Management. [00:01:32] Jason: Derek, welcome to the show. [00:01:33] Derek: Thanks for having me. I'm excited. [00:01:35] Jason: So, Derek, you're doing a lot of unique things there and you've had a lot of success and things have been going really well. I'm excited to to, you know, get into you know, some of this unique stuff that you're doing and chat about this topic of 'from crisis to connection.' [00:01:53] Jason: And so to kick things off, tell everybody how did you get into— when did you first figure out you were an entrepreneur? Like how'd you get into business? And then maybe that'll segue into starting a property management business and so on. Give us some back background on you. [00:02:10] Derek: I still struggle viewing myself as an entrepreneur to be honest with you in that way. [00:02:16] Derek: Like I've done sales stuff growing up and my parents are like, you suck at this. Like, you're not going to be able to make a living. [00:02:23] Jason: They didn't believe in you. [00:02:23] Derek: No, they're very self-aware. Like, I mean, trust me, I understood like they were right. But like, what was funny is like on the sales, like I couldn't close but I could present and I could put on a show and make it entertaining. [00:02:37] Derek: And so, like, one of the things that I did is I sold Cutco knives. Okay. But I couldn't close. But I would have more people like, and I'd have a longer list of referrals of people's friends after the end of each one of the presentations than anyone else. But I couldn't close, so I was getting, I made a decent amount of money, because you got paid per presentation. [00:02:57] Derek: And they couldn't figure it out. And they sat in on one of my things and they're like, "you need to close the deal." And I'm like, "I don't know how to close the deal." I just, you know, and then I ran a snow cone shack, and that was probably one of the funnest things I ever did. And we went crazy with stuff. [00:03:10] Derek: Couldn't make any money, me and my partner, but we had a good time and made an impact. We had came up with all sorts of crazy combinations and all this time I was in the title industry when I was running that and marketing and just built relationships and that was all my sales, was just relationships. [00:03:26] Derek: I can't do hard sales like it makes me sick. Yeah. But the relationships and all that stuff comes naturally. And so, I mean that's— [00:03:35] Jason: and property management really is a business of relationships. [00:03:38] Derek: It is. [00:03:38] Jason: And people that lose sight of that think it's some sort of tech game or like a lot of these businesses have felt failed. [00:03:45] Jason: They just, they don't get it. [00:03:47] Derek: As you say, the deals close at the speed of trust. Yeah. I do say, and so see, I listen sometimes and sometimes, enough to gather a few things. But being able to work on those relationships and just see people has like, been that secret elixir. [00:04:03] Derek: And so when I was looking to start a property management company my parents were like, "you're an idiot. You failed at everything else." Even my wife was nervous. The only thing that convinced her was we were in the process of building a house and we were going to rent out our town home. And she's like, "there's too many property management companies where we're at. I'm not going to pay, you know, who's going to pay 10% or whatever for this, like, when you can do it yourself." And I said, "okay, you're going to do this on your own." And so I just let her do it. And she had asked questions and I said, "Google it." And as someone who's married yourself, you can understand how well that went over. [00:04:39] Derek: And so, and then hearing everyone's stories and different things like that, my wife, by the time we had it rented out was like, "okay, you have my support." And then the, you know, the rest is history. Rough first year, and then we've just been on a rocket ride since. [00:04:53] Jason: So you, how important do you feel like it was to get your wife's support? [00:04:59] Jason: I've been the entrepreneur that didn't have support in a previous marriage, like that was a rough thing. [00:05:05] Derek: Oh it's a hundred percent. Like, I mean, it's the only way I could do like, I mean, so about six months in, so I didn't take, really take a paycheck the first year. We were living off savings. Yeah. It was kind of a struggle. My partner was looking at me like, "you're going to make this work." And once again, like, I struggled one, you know, with hard sales and the hard part that I didn't realize that, you know, I was marketing for title companies, so I had all these real estate agent contacts. But it's a town. It's notorious. When you try something new, they're like, "we know you as the title guy. We don't know you as the property management guy. That's a different thing." And so I was like, "oh they know me, trust, and they sent me all these deals to close for them, you know, for the client. [00:05:42] Derek: So they're going to try. And they're like, it's different. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. So I didn't anticipate that, but I remember one time, my partner had set up with the real estate brokerage he was in the management company or the broker of the business. Were going to start a statewide management company. [00:05:59] Derek: And they were going to have me run Cedar and we had a conversation and my partner was laughing because I was, I had no leverage. But I was kind of belligerent because I'm like, your software sucks. Like, I know I don't have a whole lot of clients, but like why would I ask them to take a step down on the level of service? And with that being said, I'm like, I have a family to provide for, and I'm like, the dream's dead. Everyone's right, right? I can't do sales. I'm not an entrepreneur. I can't work for anyone else either, so I'm like, I'm kind of screwed. [00:06:26] Jason: I'm unemployable. That kind of means you're an entrepreneur if you're unemployable. [00:06:30] Derek: I mean, that's the funny thing is my family's like, "why don't you find a job?" I'm like, "I tried." All these companies, like, "dude, you've done so many cool, amazing things. We love you and everything. We can't hire you." "Why not?" "You just don't fit our culture." And I'm like, "**** you!" Oh yeah that's probably why I don't fit your culture. [00:06:45] Derek: Right. And so like I had at that point decided I was going to sell out and I'm like, okay, I'll work for something else and if not something else, I'll just kind of, this will be the next step. I'll just balance and then figure out where I go to next. [00:06:56] Sarah: Yeah. [00:06:57] Derek: But I woke up at like three o'clock in the morning and I'm just like, I can't do it. [00:07:00] Derek: I can't do it. And told my wife, I said, "I can't sell." And she's like, "okay, but when are you going to make money?" "I don't know. You know, I just know I can't sell." And I went to my business partner and I'm like, "I can't sell." And he looks at me and he is like, "I've seen you do dumber stuff. So, okay. What's your plan?" [00:07:21] Derek: "I don't have a plan." And then I remember. So I'm just like, all right. Like I have to figure this out. Two weeks later, an agent buddy of mine like calls me and he is like, "I am tired of my wife doing property management. Come in, let's talk." And at this point I think I was like at 40, 40 units. And you know, accounting's not my strong point. [00:07:41] Derek: because everyone's like, "oh, 40 units, you should been making money." I'm like, I was just trying to figure out the flow of money. Like that's not my strong point. [00:07:47] Jason: And so this is the crisis. And the crisis to connection is like, you were just like trying to figure out mm-hmm we need money. Mm-hmm. [00:07:55] Derek: And and so he goes, "here's the deal you pay me, you know, one month's management fee and they're all yours. Here's 25 units." We did the math, it was like five grand. And what's funny is my business partner's like "you do not make a deal without talking to me." We were 50: 50 partners and we'd always joke around about like, Hey, I'm going to use my 50% majority and make this decision. [00:08:17] Derek: And we just, you know, this is kind of, we were interacted. So I came out of that meeting and I said, "I'm buying them." And he was pissed. He is, like "I told you—" and I said, "dude, it's $5,000." And he's like, oh yep, nope, we're good. We're good. We didn't tell anyone. Didn't make a big announcement. Yeah. But there was something about that moment like that led to credibility. [00:08:37] Derek: For whatever reason there was just a threshold of units. All of a sudden, now I'm at 65 and I was like, oh, like you're kind of legit. And then it's just kind of has been spiraling since then. And within six months I'd hired my first employee. because we were at a hundred units and I was adding 20 that month. [00:08:51] Derek: But but yeah, so that's just kind of the story and I still laugh because I don't view myself as an entrepreneur. It's just kind of, I view myself as a guy who's really good at relationships and magic happens with that. [00:09:03] Jason: So, and you know, you mentioned at the beginning that you really, that's kind of your area of genius is you're really good at connecting with people and building relationships. [00:09:13] Jason: One of the things that I, you know, that one of the gifts I see in you that I've noticed, you know, as a coach is you genuinely care about people. You genuinely care about your team. You genuinely care about your clients, you care about the tenants. And I think it's that care that's really allowed you to have the success that you've been seeing. [00:09:35] Derek: Oh, a hundred percent. Like we, we laugh all the time. I said people as a whole are awesome and so good. There's so many incredible things. Individuals can be idiots, some, you know, me included. I'm an individual. But by and large, I mean that's, [00:09:48] Jason: That's a very different belief though. And there's a lot of people that are like, "I don't like people, but I like you." [00:09:53] Jason: You know, or stuff like this. My wife's Sarah, she's like, "I don't generally like people, but I like you." You know, she likes Derek, you know, but Yeah. But you have this belief that people are awesome and I think that belief is, you know, that's a unique belief. [00:10:07] Derek: Yeah. And I, you know, and especially in property management, like I, I mean, "oh, you're going to get yelled at all the time." [00:10:12] Derek: And I'm like, yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, sometimes it's deserved, sometimes it's not. And as long as you can separate those, like that's what's amazing. Like sometimes you're like, we failed and I can't control how people are going to respond. because if people fail me sometimes I don't have a proportional response. [00:10:27] Derek: So why would I expect anyone else to act differently? And so we just own it and try to fix it and apologize and, you know. [00:10:36] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that another attribute, you know, there's generally, you know, the idea of not having to be perfect or look perfect all the time, there's a certain level of humility. [00:10:48] Jason: You joke about yourself like a lot, and you know, you, even from the outset of this, you know this podcast you recognize you're not this perfect unflawed person. And I think there's, that level of humanity, it's disarming, it allows people to feel even safer. And I think a lot of property managers listening could take note is they're always trying to maintain this perfect perception that there is this thing that never has a problem. [00:11:15] Derek: Oh, like, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's life's messy. I'm messy. Like, I mean, like everyone's messy. Yeah. We try to put on this show, you know? And I mean, that's one of the things, like part of the, my background coming into property management has given me the different perspective. I mean, so I served on the board for the local homeless shelter. [00:11:37] Jason: Okay. [00:11:37] Derek: And so, like I saw on a day-to-day basis, like people going through crisises and seeing them and realizing, I'm like I was one or two decisions, or one or two friends from being there. [00:11:50] Jason: Yeah. [00:11:50] Derek: And so being able to recognize like that going, you know, if I would've gone to this, or if I would've done this, or, I mean, I can count on one hand, like times in my life that I'm like, you know, that was divine intervention. [00:12:05] Derek: I had a friend gimme a call at the right time and invite me to go do that before I did something stupid. You know, and it's like, I tell my kids all the time, I said, you're going to make mistakes. You know, the deci the hard part is making sure that those mistakes aren't life changing. And unfortunately, outside of a few, like big obvious ones, you never know when those life changing ones are until you know they're past. [00:12:27] Jason: You know, I really believe we are the creators of our own reality, and I believe that your belief that in divine intervention, belief in God being able to take care of you and that you trusting in that has allowed you to avoid some of those. Because I'm sure when you were talking to people at that local homeless shelter, you're getting this perspective, oh man, they just made one bad decision that led to this. Or they were just like, I'm one step away from this. But they probably, a lot of them you probably picked up, they have a different belief system than you do. [00:13:01] Derek: Yeah. And I mean, what's fascinating though, when you work with those, they're generally trying to change. [00:13:06] Jason: Yeah. [00:13:07] Derek: And this is a perspective of it, and it was eyeopening. So like when we set up our first transitional house for men and women coming out of homelessness and domestic violence, my kids still call it the stinky house. Like it was the stink, it was stinky house, it was a dump. [00:13:18] Derek: And like we fixed it up. Like, I mean, I've told the story like Home Depot, like called and walked off the job. because they were pulling up carpet. There was like dog crap, like somehow shoved underneath the— like, like, it was horrible. They had like 20 people and 15 dogs and 13 cats living here before this owner bought it. [00:13:37] Jason: Yeah. [00:13:38] Derek: And he wanted to do student housing. And we're like, and I was like, all right, let's do it. [00:13:42] Jason: Because all their parents paying the bill want them to be in that property. [00:13:45] Derek: This was not like student housing at the time, but he is like. You know, as far I'm like, and it was still, to this day, it's like one of the best property pitches I've ever done. [00:13:53] Derek: And I'm still kind of a little bitter and I still manage this owner. I'm like, "we've done a lot of good with this house. But remember that pitch?" And it is like, "I know," and that pitch would've cost me a lot of money that I wouldn't have been able to make. It was awesome. It's what sold me on you and trust me. [00:14:09] Derek: because you put a lot of work into that. And so we pivoted because it's, you know, it was funny. It's like going back to divine intervention. Yeah, he spoke numerous times. He's like, "this house was speaking to me." Like, he's just like, "I have to have this house. I don't know why. I don't know what, despite everything," and so, you know, we kind of pitched and we made it up and worked with the homeless shelter going, here's what we think, there's, here's some funding. [00:14:33] Derek: Like, let's just figure it out. And he was on board and you know, so when we moved the first three in, they were so, so ecstatic. Hearing their stories, one of them grew up not far from where I grew up, and I laughed because, you know, he left where he grew up because he didn't want to get into drugs. [00:14:52] Derek: Lo and behold, he came to Cedar City and he got into drugs. So he left where I'm like, "dude, yeah, no wonder like you, you didn't do drugs in that area where you grew up? Like that's impress— but you got into it in Cedar?" he goes, "I know it doesn't track. I left to get away and then it was just. It just, you know," and it goes back to the connections that he made and the friends that he made and [00:15:12] Jason: Yeah. [00:15:13] Derek: And all of that, their ability, [00:15:14] Jason: ... really that's who you are and how you're showing up and your beliefs and what you feel you deserve and what you you feel you're worth. And so really boils down to your internal belief. [00:15:24] Jason: And your internal beliefs really, I think, shape the environment that we allow or create around ourselves. [00:15:30] Derek: Yeah. And these people like with, as their belief group, like their ability to celebrate like small victories. [00:15:37] Jason: Yeah. [00:15:38] Derek: That were just like, you wouldn't think we're that big. I remember they threw a party— [00:15:42] Jason: Things they didn't have that most people would take for granted. [00:15:44] Derek: Yeah. I mean, the one got a job and he was able to hold it for a week, and so they threw a party. They bought a big old huge cake. I don't know how they got the money held. And they're like— [00:15:53] Jason: yeah. [00:15:53] Derek: They're like, "he kept his job for a week. He hasn't done that for years. Like, we're going to throw a party. You should come." [00:15:59] Jason: Right. Celebrate the wins. [00:16:01] Derek: I mean, they had a cake and they were celebrating and like the music was loud, and I'm just like, " you kept a job for a week and you're celebrating?" Like, it was just I'm like, is this real life? Like this is, we're celebrating? I'm like, this is like common sense. Like, you know what I mean? [00:16:18] Derek: But it was a big deal for them. And then, you know, same thing with— [00:16:21] Jason: it's common for you and it's maybe common for others, but for some that's not common. And so, yeah. We got to celebrate progress. [00:16:29] Derek: Like, it was amazing. And just, you know, when you look at their sobriety coins and stuff they get at, those are always huge things. [00:16:35] Jason: Yeah. [00:16:36] Derek: To do and being able to, you know, and they have to fight. Like, holy crap. Yeah. I mean, I wish people fully understood how hard they have to fight. [00:16:45] Jason: Well, I think it was Alex Hormozi one of my former mentors and coaches, and he was also in a mastermind with me. He mentioned that you don't get self-esteem or self-worth by saying a bunch of affirmations in the mirror. [00:16:59] Jason: You get it by getting evidence. And these little wins that they're getting is giving them some evidence that maybe is in conflict with the current identity they've been holding. [00:17:09] Derek: Yeah, I mean. When you look at these people, I mean, they, you know, and I love them. I love that population. [00:17:15] Derek: Like it, it's amazing. [00:17:17] Derek: The insights that I've gotten into life and everything is unbelievable. And it's changed the way I operate my business and understanding to make sure that we can try to find support because you really are, there's these moments as we hinted at that you know, like, I think sometimes we have an inkling that these are moments, right? [00:17:37] Derek: But not always. And there's these moments that if you can get the support or the right person, like they're life changing and they go it makes a huge impact. Way more than it would on my life. [00:17:49] Jason: Yeah. [00:17:49] Derek: But it's huge on theirs. [00:17:51] Jason: Yeah. So I mean, and this goes to your kind of core values that you've kind of built your business and your life around is, you know, related to contribution and making a difference. [00:18:02] Derek: Yeah, I mean, it's something, I mean, my, my parents raised me that way and I laugh like they, they always think that they failed me. because I just I'm different and quirky as you can attest. Yeah. And they just are like, you are not our child. Like we don't know where you came from. [00:18:17] Derek: And I just said, "I am both of your guys' best and worst qualities on steroids. So you struggle because you're looking in a mirror going, that could have been me. And instead we made it and now we can't control it." But I know my dad and mom were always heavily involved in different things and I watched that. [00:18:35] Derek: My poor kids have experienced too. I don't think they're going to be as heavily involved because they've seen more of the bad as opposed to the good. [00:18:41] Jason: Okay. [00:18:41] Derek: Sometimes with being willing to put yourself out there and be involved. And we're in a small town, so my kids can't escape dad. They go over, "oh you're Derek's boy, or you're Derek's daughter," and they just go, "yes." [00:18:54] Jason: right. [00:18:54] Derek: But those values and being involved and realizing, you know, that was something that was instilled. Like, I can make a difference. And just, you know, my parents didn't put it this way. It's what I tell my kids all the time. I'm like, "you can go far in life. Just don't suck as a human being." Like you really just don't suck as a human being. [00:19:12] Derek: Like I said, my kids, my parents didn't put it that way. But they, I mean, it's through their actions and [00:19:18] Jason: stuff. [00:19:18] Jason: Are your parents, I mean, you strike me as pretty extroverted and connect and comfortable with people. Are your parents pretty introverted? [00:19:26] Derek: Actually, my mom after the divorce, like she came out like pretty extroverted. [00:19:32] Derek: My dad was pretty extroverted. Okay. I grew up pretty introverted and it's still like my social battery, like it winds down and it's like, yeah I'm on a battery. When that battery's done, I just like but I've trained myself and I've just had to do so many different things that I'm like, I put myself out there and here's what it is, and that's how I have to get stuff done. [00:19:52] Derek: It's the only way to accomplish it. And then I can decompress and not have to worry about people until the next time. [00:19:58] Jason: So, yeah, I'm very much the same way. I would categorize myself as an ambivert. So give people some context of kind of your journey here. How long ago did you start this property management business? [00:20:11] Derek: I started nine years ago in July. [00:20:13] Jason: Okay. Nine years ago. And how many units are you at right now? [00:20:18] Derek: We're at 650 units. Nice. [00:20:20] Jason: Okay. Yeah, and I generally don't see people break four or 500 units unless they've got really good culture and a really good team. It just generally doesn't happen. And so you've built kind of a, it sounds like a unique culture. [00:20:33] Jason: You had mentioned earlier you didn't fit other people's culture. I. Like it was hard for you to get a job or stay in a job because you just didn't fit. In what way did you not fit that culture and how has that changed the type of business you've created around you? Because you have a very different culture in your business. [00:20:49] Jason: Obviously you fit in it because you're at the helm. [00:20:52] Derek: It's my culture. [00:20:53] Jason: It's yours. Yeah. It's your culture. So you built the business that didn't exist that you could work at. You know? [00:21:00] Derek: So I'm pretty outspoken. And that doesn't always fit with the typical corporate job or working for other people. [00:21:07] Derek: because I'm not afraid to be like, "this is dumb and here's why I think it's dumb." And then with that, I think the other thing is I'm not as risk averse. I was really risk averse at one point in time, and then I got fired. And at that point I was like. Yeah, screw it. Like, like I survived once and so like, let's try this. [00:21:27] Derek: Um, Why not? You know, I like, but I also do a lot of research, so like, what seems risky the most like, is just the next step and it's logical. And I'm like, okay, yeah, we're going to do that. And you know why? Everyone's like, I, you know, I can't believe you're doing that. And I'm like, why? Like, this is the next step. [00:21:46] Derek: Why are you doing what you do? Like. You're selling yourself short. Like this is not risky to me. Yeah. [00:21:51] Derek: And so because I just, you know, you get all the things in place and then you make the leap and you know there's going to be mistakes going back to, you know, the messiness. You're like, okay, I make that leap at 60, 70% certain and, you know, and realize that 30% may kill me off. [00:22:06] Derek: But because there's always stuff I miss, but, you know, life's more enjoyable that way and so those cultures just don't fit. You know, a lot of corporate and working for someone else. And then with us, like, you know, we try to let the girls in my office, I have three full-time employees. [00:22:20] Derek: And then and then a virtual assistant that, you know, they can speak openly and sometimes that is pretty open and honest with both of us with all of us. Yeah. And can be pretty gruff, but that's what we need. And like I tell them all, I said, "if you think I'm being an idiot, you can tell me I'm an idiot. Just, you know, make sure you have the evidence." [00:22:37] Jason: How would you describe the culture then in your business? Like everybody has a voice. You mentioned outspoken, you mentioned basically, it sounds like you're willing to take feedback and you know, and I would imagine that allows the business to innovate and move forward much faster than most companies that don't foster environment of feedback or honesty. [00:22:58] Derek: I mean, there's a lot of times the girls in my office are right. They see stuff that I don't see. Yeah. [00:23:03] Jason: If you're relying on team members, it's really dumb to think you've got all of the best ideas and nobody else is as smart as you. [00:23:10] Derek: Well, and they, and we all balance each other out. [00:23:12] Derek: Like, you know, as you in your coaching terms I'm the visionary, right? The craziest thing you ever told me when we did the jumpstart. [00:23:19] Jason: Yeah. [00:23:19] Derek: And I still laugh. For this past year and I wanted to, I brought it up at DoorGrow Live as part of the breakout session. When we did that, you're like, dude, you thrive in chaos. And I'm like, nah, yeah, maybe like, they're like, no, that's your life. And then as I was going through and putting together that breakout session, I'm just like. Jason was right, like is the girls are all stressed and everything. And my wife's like, what is going on? I'm like, this is amazing. [00:23:45] Derek: Like every said, you know, I got to figure out the student housing thing. And then we got this and we got this. And I'm like, this is fantastic. My mind's on overload. I'm going a million miles an hour, and I'm just like, this is great. All well, the girls are like ready to be balled, you know, baller than me pulling their hair out and, you know, and all of this stuff. [00:24:02] Derek: But that's where the balance comes in. [00:24:04] Derek: And so, because with a visionary, there's certain tendencies that are pretty horrible and self-destructive that I've learned. [00:24:12] Jason: Yeah. [00:24:12] Derek: That have, it's been painful lessons over the years. [00:24:16] Derek: Which is why like, we spent the last three years really just cleaning up. Most of the stuff is still cleaning up our database from like eight years ago. That's like, why is not all this information in the property? I was just running, you know, who has time for that? [00:24:29] Derek: And so having that balance has been huge to kind of tone down those different aspects of my personality. So that we can move forward in a way that works and fit that's much better for us, much better for our owners that we work for, and much better for our tenants. [00:24:50] Jason: Yeah. Well, you know, yeah I definitely can thrive in chaos and I think those that a lot of visionaries that might be like that, that are listening, that, you know, there's a certain amount of chaos that we feel really effective in while the everybody else are like freaking out. Sometimes I call it the Amon principle because like you've got, I was raised Mormon, and in that, there's this story where like, they're running around, freaking out. "We're going to get killed by the king, because the, these bad guys scatter our flocks." And Amon was the one that was like, "Hey. There's chaos. Here's an opportunity. I can create something out of chaos." And that he was able to show up as a leader. And everybody's like, "yeah, we'll do whatever you say because we're all going to die probably." So anything's better than dying. So they're like, let's do what this guy says and instantly is leading a group, even though he is the new guy. [00:25:40] Jason: Those are those in Myers-Briggs that have a P at the end that are listening. Like the raw material of chaos and new ideas and different things allows you to formulate some new thinking and to innovate and to create stuff. [00:25:52] Jason: Whereas those js, they're like, they're the ones that kind of keep us stable and they think inside the box and the box is a nice container and we need those team members that like can keep us a little bit, you know, protected and away from the, a little bit too crazy. And sometimes I jokingly call them the crusher of all hopes and dreams, but they keep us grounded and they keep us connected to reality and they protect the business, and they help us know when we're getting a little too wild, but we're the ones that stretch them outside the box. [00:26:22] Jason: We're the ones that help them lean into new ideas. And so I think depending on what you are as a business owner, we need that alternative. We need somebody that kind of can stretch us into growth or stretch us into maybe constraint and into some guardrails and some protective measures. And having a good planning system eventually and having team members that have a voice, I think is really important. [00:26:48] Jason: So. You built the business and built this culture and in nine years getting to 650 units that's, you know, that's no small feat. That's pretty decent growth. How have you gotten most of the doors up to this point? [00:27:02] Derek: This is what's crazy. So when I was asked to do that breakout session and Sarah was like, "Hey, you did all this stuff, how did you do it?" And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. And so we went back and we ran the numbers and so 88% of my growth has come from like my network and just those relationships. [00:27:22] Jason: They say your network is your net worth, right? Yeah. So, [00:27:25] Derek: so I mean, current owners expanding their portfolio, which is like awesome, right? [00:27:29] Derek: Because that means you're doing a really good job. They're like, "Hey, I'm comfortable, I want to buy more." [00:27:33] Jason: Yeah. [00:27:34] Derek: Then they refer their friends. And then just kind of my group of friends that I have and then agents relationships that I've had over the years. Yeah. And so really only like 12% of my business has come from Google over the years, which was eyeopening. [00:27:48] Derek: Yeah. You know, because you hate when I say this phrase, but I don't know any other way like. [00:27:53] Derek: You know, the really the ethoses of our companies, we just try not to suck. And I'm like, that was like the most— [00:27:58] Jason: yeah, [00:27:58] Derek: the best validation of that philosophy. I haven't figured out a better way to say it, to make it more Jason approved. [00:28:06] Derek: But it was awesome. Like, I mean, and so, and it was just validation for all the crazy stuff we've done. Like the owner's conference we do, the owner's gifts. [00:28:16] Jason: Yeah, you do some unique things. [00:28:18] Derek: Like just all those different things that it was like, alright, like the craziness worked. Like it was, you know, I have my own way of doing things. [00:28:25] Derek: I have my own way that I view the world. And that was like the best validation ever. Like it was awesome. And it was empowering because it just. You know, it played into my strengths as opposed to making, you know, cold calls and trying to do that way where I'm not as good at. It was a slower growth. [00:28:41] Derek: It was a slower burn. But now it's just— [00:28:44] Jason: now you can build systems for growth and we're working on some stuff with you, which is, which [00:28:48] Derek: is the step that we're, that I'm on now, so. [00:28:51] Jason: So, you know, there's a lot of property managers listening that maybe they have maybe more similar personality to you and they're good with people and they can make friends. [00:29:01] Jason: But one of the challenges I've seen with some of these individuals. They get stuck in this thinking as a business owner, that they have to be a business owner and what that looks like, and maybe it's more that corporate environment and they're like, I got to step out of being the guy that's connecting and networking and creating relationships and friends, and I've got to run this business and do all this stuff that's like not even aligned with their personality. [00:29:22] Jason: And so they really, it prevents them from being able to grow and creates a business that makes a miserable job for them. And then there's those listening that are like, "man, I suck at friends. I don't believe that people are awesome, as Derek says. And I just, I'm not into connecting with people," and they need to maybe. [00:29:40] Jason: You know, get a business development manager or salespeople or that like people, that can connect with people to bring in business and that's not their strength, you know? And so I think it's really awesome that you've been able to focus on building a business that you actually enjoy being in where most business owners think they need to build a business to please everybody else. [00:30:01] Derek: Well, and this is really a credit to you, Jason. So, I mean, I've been with you just over a year now. [00:30:06] Derek: Like I stumbled across you. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's [00:30:09] Jason: been a while. Little while. I didn't realize it's been that long. [00:30:11] Derek: Yeah. Like, just kind of stumbled across you. because we'd, I had owners tell me like, "Hey, you need to expand up north and manage our properties. It's no longer a question of of if, you can no longer tell me no, it's a matter of when." I'm like, I can't do that, that my mind doesn't work that way. There's a reason I've been telling you no for years. [00:30:27] Jason: Yeah. [00:30:28] Derek: And so like we just stumbled across you and you know, I signed on pretty quick. [00:30:33] Derek: Yeah, because, you know, you spoke to me like you understood kind of at a level that I'm like, yeah, you know where I'm at. I understand, [00:30:39] Jason: I understand your level of crazy for sure. [00:30:41] Derek: I'm still that, like I'm in parts of the business that I'm not good at. I've pulled back so much and I'm in the process of pulling back more. [00:30:51] Jason: Well, what do you feel like over this year, what are some of the changes that you feel like you've made or that have been beneficial? How did. DoorGrow, me, Sarah, team help. Like what's changed? [00:31:03] Derek: So one, trusting those that I hire, like I've had amazing staff, you know? [00:31:08] Derek: Yeah. But I'm also like, I need to do this. I'm the owner. And so being able to offload some of that. And so when you look the biggest thing is, you know, we all have certain ways that we think our business needs to look right, certain positions, we need to do this, we need to do that. And you gave me the freedom, and this is going to be kind of counterintuitive, but the time studies. [00:31:32] Jason: Yeah. [00:31:32] Derek: You know, like was eye opening. because it's like, oh yeah, let's just take that off the girls' plate. Like, they don't like doing that. Why am I having them do that? Like, okay, so where does this need to go? And so being able to shift some stuff and now like now it doesn't matter, like what it looks like. It's based on my current staff. [00:31:51] Derek: And you know what I need and what the business needs. And so now like as I scale, I don't know what it's going to look like and nor do I care. [00:32:00] Jason: Because you feel like you have a system for figuring out [00:32:04] Derek: Yeah. Like, I mean, you, I remember you telling me that you know, each progressive time study, you're going to get more mad at yourself. [00:32:13] Derek: And I didn't believe it. because at first I'm like, oh yeah, like I love doing the showing. It's like, no problem. You know, I'll keep the girls in the office. Like, like I said, I love people. So me interacting with people you know, a lease and everything's like, dude, I love this property. [00:32:25] Derek: Like, cool, what do you do? Like, and just be able to like, I want to rent from this guy. And all of that. And then just certain other things. And so then the second time study I did, I was like a little more aggravated. And then the one I did in January with the girls in my office, because I said, we're going to do one and, you know, and kind of get some stuff into place for as we continue to grow and what that needs to look like. My whole thing was like, why am I doing this? He was all like, I was angry. Yeah. And Shaunna, as we're going through this, she goes, "your whole thing's angry." I'm like, "yeah, I'm shocked." [00:32:53] Derek: Like this was the worst thing ever. Like I was pissed. I'm like, why am I still doing showings? This needs to get off my plate. [00:32:58] Derek: And she's like, you love doing showings? And I'm like, I do, but it's stupid for me to be doing showings. Like it just makes no sense. And so like over time having that and looking at the girls time studies and seeing certain trends, I'm like, okay, like yeah, I've got this. [00:33:13] Derek: I'm like, I have data and we're going to do another one here at the end of June to kind of make our next step because we're looking at another hire that we're trying to figure out exactly. This one will be, honest and frank conversations between me and my staff because I'm like, this is what I think we need and we can have them do. [00:33:28] Derek: And I think this is what they think going to be and well, so it may come to rock paper scissors, we'll see how that how that's decided. But having that time study and realizing. Like systems and people, you know, peoples and processes, right? You can, as long as you have those in place, you can scale. [00:33:42] Jason: So for those listening, they're like, "time study. Like what? Like tracking your time?" Like could you explain to them the time study process and why it's beneficial? [00:33:50] Derek: So it's basically every 15 minutes, here's what I did. And was it, you know, was I interrupted? Is this something I enjoy doing? Is this something I don't enjoy doing? Yeah. And so you can learn, you know, how to minimize the interruptions, you know, if there's certain things. [00:34:04] Derek: And then, you know, how do you get some stuff that you don't enjoy doing as much? You know, there's always the nature of it. There's always going to be things you don't enjoy doing, right? Yeah. But if you can kind of farm those off and then let those focus on. You know, those that are, be good at that be able to take that on because they actually enjoy doing that. [00:34:24] Derek: I think you described it to me like, because it was like, this doesn't make any sense. You're like, how many plumbers are there in the world and they love it. [00:34:32] Jason: Yeah, [00:34:33] Derek: they love swimming in the muck and here's what it is and they make good money with it. And I'm like, that makes sense to me. Like it just, it's, I'm like, oh yeah, there are a lot of plumbers. [00:34:40] Derek: Yeah, there, [00:34:41] Jason: there's people that love doing everything that you don't enjoy doing. There's somebody out there that loves doing that and I think the time study, the purpose of it, isn't just to see where your time goes, there is that advantage, but it's really to figure out, not just time, but it's to figure out energy, like which things are giving you life, which things are taking it away? [00:34:59] Jason: What are the plus signs? What are the minus signs? And I love that you're already having team members do it because if you want to keep team members, and keep them happy and have really good culture and really good team, you want to move them towards their areas of genius, the things that they're naturally inclined to be great at in their personality. [00:35:15] Derek: Well, and it also like the way we did it, I had, I promised the girls, I said, I'm not looking at what you're doing. I know you're doing your job. [00:35:21] Jason: Yeah. [00:35:22] Derek: And they had all come from a corporate environment, so when they're hearing time studies, they like, there was huge fear. [00:35:27] Derek: There's a reason it was took nine months after I hired you, before I was finally like, you need to do this, right? Like, I'm going to die on this sword and you're going to have to trust me that I'm not looking at going, "Hey, like why are you doing this instead of you doing this?" and so when I went to with Shaunna, like I looked at it and we went through, I was like, man, we're taking a lot of phone calls. [00:35:48] Derek: Is there ways we can do that? And not that we had to make out actions on any of that right now, but it's like it started the conversation that now even six months later are starting to come to fruition that, that look, hey, like we are still dealing with a lot of this. We're dealing with a lot of this. Is there ways we can do this? [00:36:04] Derek: Things that I've put on the back burner for years, I'm like, I really need to look into this. That, like, looking at it, I'm like, oh yeah, this is like crisis. Like I've failed my staff, right? [00:36:14] Jason: Yeah. [00:36:15] Derek: And so kind of put some of those solutions in place and get answers for them and make things like that work. [00:36:19] Derek: So it was eyeopening, but it doesn't really. You don't matter how it looks. I mean, so like, I joke all the time, you know, at one point in time my office staff, because you're used to, when you hear property management, like, oh, you have a leasing agent, you have a maintenance coordinator, you have, you know, your office manager and the grocery, oh, you have a regional manager. [00:36:39] Derek: My staff at one point in time was a student life coordinator, a housing advocate, and an office queen. That was her technical term. Right. We even gave her a crown. When I went to London, I found a shirt that had a queen. And so like, we got her that, right. It was, it was on her business cards and everything. [00:36:54] Derek: Okay. But it doesn't matter. Like, and titles don't matter. Like, it's just a matter of putting them in the position to where they and the business can succeed. [00:37:04] Jason: I mean, really a lot of business owners are trying to optimize their team through micromanagement and through KPIs and through metrics and trying to force them to perform better. [00:37:14] Jason: And our philosophy at DoorGrow is quite different. Like we're basically by doing time studies and by setting really good culture and establishing that we're optimizing based on personalities. Which is fundamentally way more effective. And so your business from the ground up is becoming more and more optimized based on your talent and they're able to perform at a much higher level. [00:37:37] Jason: Also, by doing the time studies you had mentioned getting clear on interruptions. Interruptions of that hidden thief in a property management business I talk about. And so by getting your team conscious of these interruptions and taking a fresh look at them. Do they need to happen? Most property management companies give their tenants and their owners a completely blank check to steal their money, steal profitability, and to increase operational costs. [00:38:01] Jason: They're like, call us anytime. And they just think, "we just got to add more staff and more phones and more everything." And so by your team doing time studies, they're becoming aware of interruptions, interrupting each other, interrupting you, like all that. They're starting to become conscious that this— [00:38:16] Derek: or me interrupting them. [00:38:18] Jason: Yes. [00:38:18] Derek: Like that came out. I'm like, [00:38:20] Jason: Derek interrupted me five times on my time study. What the hell, Derek, why? Like, why can't, that came up quite a bit. Let's find another system, right? because there's Derek's sneaker net in the office walking in, interrupting, and you know. Yeah. So taking away Derek's blank check to disrupt his own team maybe. [00:38:39] Derek: Yeah. That's when we build a new office it's mandatory that I have my own space. Right now we have an open concept. [00:38:45] Jason: Right? I've had clients after doing time studies that start working from home and their office performance goes up because they're not screwing everything up all the time. [00:38:53] Derek: That's now that my son's moved out, that's in the works myself too, so. [00:38:57] Jason: Okay. Yeah. So, so it sounds like a big thing that you've gotten so far in DoorGrow is just more and more clarity. And so you can make better decisions as a team. [00:39:07] Derek: Well, and confidence. I didn't know what I was going to be doing like when we were looking to make that leap, I'm like, Hey, I pretty much told I have to, so I have to figure this out, you know, to manage Northern Utah. And now like, we kind of laugh because it's like, okay, we did that and now it's just here's what we require for other parts of the state. [00:39:27] Derek: And having done it once we're kind of like, why the hell not? Like, what's next? That's been eyeopening. And then the other thing that's awesome. I mean, so I mean you got a network of the other property managers that you can use their brain and they can use yours and brainstorm and I mean that was the magic of DoorGrow Live a couple weeks ago. [00:39:46] Jason: Yeah. [00:39:46] Derek: Being able to network and visit with 40 other property managers and be able to just kind of hear their pains and brainstorm and [00:39:53] Jason: Yeah. [00:39:53] Derek: You know, I learned just as much from those that had 25 units as those that were larger. I mean, and everyone had an attitude of learning. I mean, one of the best meetings ever is like, so we had a breakfast that Sunday morning, Ed and Sylvie and I, and all three of us were just like. [00:40:09] Derek: And Sylvie's like, I mean, she's a small, Ed's over 300 and has done it all and seen it all. And I'm at 600 and we're just like sitting there taking notes with what Sylvie was saying, like, we're like, that's genius. You know? Yeah. And and so just learning kind of where everyone else is at and understanding you can learn things from other people like, and it, [00:40:26] Jason: yeah. [00:40:26] Jason: Sylvie's super sharp and I mean, she's just starting her property management business. But she's worked with coaches and mentors that I've been around that like were in high ticket masterminds and different things. Like her mindset is different and so everybody's bringing different things to the table. [00:40:42] Jason: Like you said, you can't just judge them based off door count. Some people are bringing some amazing things to the table. I think also, you know, we at DoorGrow, we attract a different breed of property managers. Like these are growth-minded people. It's very different. They're kind of the cream of the crop of the industry. [00:40:58] Jason: They're unique people that would invest money into their personal growth and personal development and into improving the business and be willing to take feedback and ideas from outside themselves, from a coach. [00:41:10] Derek: And it's crazy at the time they're doing it. I'm like, man, I wish, I mean, that's ballsy. You're like, I'm at 50 units and I'm going to spend this much in a coach. Now it's money well spent. I'm like, I would've saved myself a whole lot of time and hassle had I done that. You know, so it's like it's a genius. We help them get an ROI, [00:41:25] Jason: they can afford us, that's for sure. [00:41:27] Derek: Yeah. I'm like, that's, that's gutsy. [00:41:29] Jason: Yeah. Some people are, they're really gutsy. But I think on the surface it may seem gutsy, but what I've noticed is I also get a lot of people coming to me that have bought into franchises that have really struggled. They've spent tons of money and they've really struggled, and sometimes for years, and I'm like, we could have solved this stuff like in a quarter, like we could have solved so many of these problems or helped them figure out how to grow so much quicker and they've just struggled with bad ideas and bad advice and not growing and, you know, or just so much stress and all of this stuff is so solvable and, you know, and I was that hardheaded guy in the past where I was like I can do everything myself and I'm a smart guy and I can watch YouTube videos and do courses and read books and but once I started investing in myself and realizing I sucked and I couldn't. I was hitting limits because of, you know, just who I was at the time. [00:42:24] Jason: I needed mentors and coaches to help me collapse time. Like it just reduced the amount of time wasting and experimentation because I mean, all of our clients are smart. I think they're all smart. All of them could figure out everything eventually, but, you know, it could take a decade longer. Like you can collapse a decade into a year if somebody just said, "Hey, I've tried that stuff. That doesn't work. Do this." And that's my shameless plug or competitive advantage is I've been able to see inside probably thousands of property management companies and see what doesn't work and what does work. And I'm not in the fire, like I'm objective. I'm not attached to any particular ideas. And so, you know, and I think that's the thing is I'm like, well, I've seen this and this. You could try that, but here's what will probably happen. [00:43:12] Jason: And I'm usually right because I've just seen, I've got so much data to work with. You mentioned confidence and I've, this is something I've noticed in you, Derek. I feel like you've shifted a lot over this last year in terms of confidence, just going from where you were when we first had our first conversation to you presenting to a group at DoorGrowLive and talking. [00:43:32] Jason: What have you noticed in the stuff that you've been working on in yourself and with your team in your own shift in confidence? Or have you seen this? [00:43:42] Derek: I think clarity is what it is. Like. because I mean, I'm a control freak in so many ways, right? [00:43:48] Derek: It's my business and— Yeah. And I laugh because I'm not, unless it comes to my branding, I'm not OCD enough to be a control freak. [00:43:58] Jason: Yeah. [00:43:59] Derek: My branding, it's a completely different thing. Like I am like the crazy stuff I do. I'm like, it speaks, it has to be me. And I'm pretty anal retentive, and it's just a completely different beast. [00:44:09] Derek: Like, but as far as my business, I was such a control freak. And to be able to let that go so that I can be like, oh yeah this is what I enjoy. This is what I need to focus on. I care about that stuff. But that's a Shaunna and I can like, and then like recognizing certain things like now in the employees because— I recognize where we're at, like how do we jump in, you know, to kind of, to help. But the more I've gotten out of the day to day actually, the better the business has gotten because I can focus on the more higher level vision stuff. [00:44:43] Derek: And here's what it looks like. I, like I tell as I explain to people, I say I hate puzzles, but I'm really good at putting together the border and finding the like pieces and going, okay, these are all the pieces that go to the car. This goes to the bush. There may be some tree pieces in there like in the bush. [00:45:05] Derek: because you know you're just going. But I'm really good at that and kind of getting it close and seeing where things need to be. And that's my talent. I'm not good at spending the time to finish the puzzle. I enjoy the puzzle when it's done. Like, because, oh, that's beautiful, right? But getting in there, like, but I love gathering the like stuff. [00:45:28] Derek: I'm going, okay, here's this. Like, here's what you need. You know? [00:45:32] Derek: There's this tech that I think can solve this problem. Holy crap. Like this is next level stuff. I can see that future and I can make those pivots. Yeah. And I can see those more clearly now as I've gotten out of the day to day. And that's where that additional confidence from. [00:45:45] Derek: because I'm like, you know, before I'm like, can I do this now? I'm like, why the hell not? Like it's just, and I've done enough crazy things that I've had some basic confidence, but. I mean, when I came to you, I've had the crap beat out of me for like three straight years. because of the growth and trying to clean up the book, like so much cleanup because I was an like, I was just an idiot and didn't have the systems and processes in place. [00:46:06] Derek: And so now that those are still, and we're still building them and still, you know, tweaking them and figuring them out, but that's where I'm like, cool. I can do a lot cooler stuff for us that I love, you know, that are important to me as opposed to being in the day to day. And I never really, like, I laugh because I told you, I said I do enough research that when I do the crazy stuff, it doesn't feel crazy. For me, when we made that leap up north, it's like there's now just kind of these moments that I'm like, that was crazy. Like I, we went to the Utah Apartment Association or Utah, sorry, rental Housing Association conference. [00:46:41] Derek: And I'm talking to people like, oh, you're in Cedar City. Like, what are you doing up here? [00:46:45] Derek: Oh, like, I had to come, I came up here for a week for this and. You know, I had to work on my properties up here and they're like looking at me like, wait, hold on, you're managing stuff up here and you're based out of there. Yeah. I mean, we have two listings, 300 miles apart and that's all sudden. I'm like, that's kind of crazy. [00:47:00] Jason: Yeah. [00:47:00] Derek: That's kind of insane, but it's just like, it just feels natural to me to where I'm like, unless you break it down like that, it just doesn't feel that crazy for me. Like, here's what it is. We got lucky on a few things and now like putting systems in place that I can continue to expand, know, where I want to expand. [00:47:15] Derek: And it's just like, yeah, we can make this happen. And that's more what we've, where I've gotten out of it. I always kind of had the crazy confidence to do crazy stuff. Now it's just like, oh, my business is no longer beating the crap out of me at the same level. And I can focus on what I enjoy. [00:47:29] Derek: Yeah. [00:47:30] Jason: Well, I think that's maybe a good point to wrap up on is I think really it's been about helping you understand just yourself and helping you understand you so that you can build that business of your dreams. You can build the team around you that supports you. I mean, even from the very beginning and in the onboarding training, this is why I make sure that everybody's clear on the idea of the four reasons. Some of you maybe have heard me talk about on the podcast, I have a video on visionary versus operators, so they can kind of identify themselves and the more clarity we can give you on yourself and then doing time studies and figuring out your personality, then we can start to build the team and the business around you and get you out of those things. [00:48:08] Jason: And I find entrepreneurs make good decisions once they have better information. And the best information you can have is to really have clarity on yourself. [00:48:15] Derek: I a hundred percent agree. [00:48:17] Jason: So I'm really excited to see what you do over the next year or two. Like, I think you're going to have some big changes and some big shifts, and your business is just getting started. [00:48:26] Jason: I think you guys could easily be over a thousand units in the next year or two if you guys really put the pedal to that. [00:48:31] Derek: That's open conversation in our office, which in the past, any of those conversations would've led to any of us being pelted with whatever was on their desk at the time. [00:48:41] Derek: And now it's just this is happening. What does it look like? I mean, and that's what's funny is like it's just really, we're just like, okay, [00:48:46] Jason: there's kind of a new reality floating around in the office for [00:48:48] Derek: the future. Well, it's a reality we already dealt with. Now we've just owned it and we're no longer fighting it at the same level that we used to. [00:48:55] Derek: Yeah. because we're getting stuff in place and you know, trying to minimize the chaos that is always there in property management. Anyways. [00:49:03] Jason: Cool. Well, to wrap up, any parting words you would say to property managers that maybe were dealing with similar challenges of chaos or where you were at when you first came to us? Or, you know, something you want to say those listening that have property management businesses that might be struggling. [00:49:21] Derek: You know, relationships matter. Like, they really do. I mean, like I said, that's how I built my business. That's how a lot of the stuff we've been able to do with the tenants and some of that focus that we've done, like those relationships matter. [00:49:31] Derek: People are people and they deserve to be treated as such, so, and it makes a huge difference. [00:49:36] Jason: I, yeah, I think that would help every property management company's growth is just start to view people through a more positive lens and focus on relationships. Love it. Cool. Great. Parting words. [00:49:48] Jason: Derek, appreciate you coming out and hanging out with us on the DoorGrow Show. Do you want anyone to connect with you in any way or like any social media or anything? [00:49:58] Derek: Best thing? Go to our website, netgainpm.com, N-E-T-G-A-I-N pm for property management.com. Yeah. [00:50:05] Jason: And Derek, you're doing really cool stuff. [00:50:07] Jason: I love that you're kind of out of the box thinking and the stuff that you're doing to make things fun in your business. And like you mentioned, you do an owner conference where you have your owners and you do this virtually and you do some cool stuff. So it's exciting to watch you and I'm excited to see what you do over the next couple of years. [00:50:22] Jason: So it'd be awesome. So, sounds great. All right, thank you. [00:50:26] Jason: So for those that are listening, if you are stuck. Or feel stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, we would be honored to help. Reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Also, join our free Facebook community. We've got cool people in there like Derek, that are helpful just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. [00:50:49] Jason: And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a positive or review wherever you found this. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone, so let's grow together. Bye everyone.
On today's special episode, we're diving deep into the world of cinema once again and picking the best movies across seven MORE iconic genres. From the most epic sequels to heart-melting romances, gripping crime dramas, unforgettable sports stories, edge-of-your-seat thrillers, jaw-dropping superhero films, and powerful biopics—we're covering it all.Whether you're a film buff or just looking for your next watch, this is the ultimate movie breakdown you don't want to miss. Let's debate, reminisce, and celebrate the stories that defined each genre.
Estimados oyentes, esta entrevista requirió que Aldo y Gloria se conectaran desde zonas rurales. Por lo tanto, la conexión a internet fue intermitente. Hay algunos momentos del episodio en los que puede resultar difícil comprender lo que se dice. Para mayor claridad, consulten la transcripción abajo. Gracias por su comprensión.Mis entrevistados en este episodio son Aldo Gonzalez y Gloria Romero López. Aldo es zapoteco de la comunidad de Guelatao de Juárez, Oaxaca, México. Ingeniero de formación, promueve el pleno reconocimiento y la implementación de los derechos de los pueblos indígenas. Trabaja en defensa de la biodiversidad local del maíz, especialmente de una variedad de maíz autofertilizante llamada olotón.Gloria es una mujer Mixteca que nacio en Lázaro Cardenas, Coicoyan de las Flores, Juxtlahuaca, Oaxaca. Curse sus estudios de ingeniería en Tecnologías de la información y comunicaciones en el Instituto Tecnológico Superior - San Miguel el Grande. Actualmente Realizó registros de Nacimientos en el Municipio de Coicoyan de las Flores. Ella gusta mucho platicar en Mixteco.Notas del Episodio* Las consecuencias al pueblo* El derecho a no migrar* Cambios atraves del NAFTA y el derecho a no migrar* “Yo tengo maiz, no necessito dinero”* La complejidad de las remesas* Las contradicciones y discriminaciones entre migrantes* La posibilidad del retorno masivo de migrantes* La violencia como causa de migracionTareaEl Derecho a No Migrar (Libro) - AmazonEl DERECHO A PERMANECER EN CASATranscripcion en espanol (English Below)Chris: [00:00:00] Bienvenido Aldo y bienvenida Gloria al podcast al fin de turismo. Gracias a ambos por estar dispuestos a hablar conmigo hoy sobre estos temas. Tengo curiosidad por saber si ustedes dos se están bien dispuestos a ofrecer una pequeña introducción o resumen sobre ustedes mismos.Ah, ado, no te escuchamos. Aldo: Bueno sobre mis viajes, bueno, no me dedico a viajar. Casi no tengo vacaciones. Pero por las cuestiones del trabajo me he tocado ir a diferentes lugares del mundo. Podríamos decir. Este básicamente por el trabajo que realizo? Más que ir a conocer los lugares a donde a donde me han invitado, lo que he hecho es ir a platicar con la gente que está en esos lugares sobre los problemas que tenemos aquí en la región.Los problemas que tenemos en México y [00:01:00] quien lo que me ha posibilitado, poder viajar a distintas partes ha sido el problema de la contaminación del maize transgénicos. Entonces eso ha hecho que, con esa bronca que peso en el año 2001, este yo haya tenido la posibilidad de ir a otros lugares a platicar un poco sobre ese problema en particular y muchos otros que se relacionan con él no o el tema de los transgénicos o el tema de los agroquímicos o el tema de el control de las corporaciones hacia la alimentación, hacia las semillas también.Entonces, digamos que en general, la mayoría de los viajes que yo he realizado están relacionados con estos acentos o con los derechos de los pueblos indígenas también. Chris: Gracias, Aldo. Y nos podrías decir donde te encuentres hoy? Aldo: Eh? Bueno, hoy estoy en Guelatao y es mi comunidad y estoy en las oficinas de la organización de mi organización, que es la unión de organizaciones de la Sierra Juarez Chris: Muchas gracias, [00:02:00] audo Aldo y gloria.Gloria: Sí, igual. Yo casi no he salido así del estado, pero sí conozco mucha gente que si emigra por lo regular a los estados unidos, es que es donde la mayoría de acá, pero casi no emigran mucho así hacia otros estados. Pero si la mayoría emigra para estados unidos, ya si tengo muchos vecinos, familia y mucho de acá de Coycoyan, si emigran más para allá que son para los estados unidos. Chris: Muy bien. Muchas gracias por eh, a tiempo con nosotros hoy. Entonces, aunque es temprano en la conversación, mi pregunta es sobre cómo han visto que el regreso de los migrantes a sus pueblos ha afectado a la comunidad en sus propios lugares o pueblos?Gloria: Sí en en cuando han cómo ha afectado la comunidad? Que muchos cuando regresan, pues ya tienen otras ideas, otras cultura, otra forma de ver la vida y a veces mucho ya no [00:03:00] quieren este participar así en las asambleas de la comunidad o ya vienen con otras técnicas, digamos, de cultivo y las técnicas que anteriormente habían acá, pues ya se van perdiendo y yo más cada veo como también esto afecta también en sus vidas personales, porque muchos cuando regresan ya regresan ya enfermos, cansados. En en el mejor de los casos, muchos ya regresan con dinero, no? Y eso hace que la gente que está en el pueblo, ve que como ellos les fue bien, pues también quieren emigrar y ya después ya son más personas que quieren migrar y ya se se hacen más y de idea de que, pues allá en estados unidos existe la oportunidad de que puedan mejorar sus vidas.Pero yo digo que así en ,general el impacto es un tanto positivo como [00:04:00] también negativo, porque igual, como digo, muchos regresan ya cansados, enfermos. Muchos igual dejan aquí sus familiares y cuanto regresan, pues sus familia ya no los encuentran, o algunos que dejan sus papás, cuando regresan sus papás ya, ya murieron o ha o esas situaciones que impacta así su vida personal.Chris: Gracias, Gloria. Aldo, querrías responder? Aldo: Aunque aquí en la comunidad de Guelatao, no hay muchos, no hay una migración tan alta como en otras comunidades cercanas. Digamos que una de las cosas que nosotros vemos que ha afectado, es que se elevan los precios, porque traen dinero, ya no trabajan en el campo. Entonces, para sus familias reciben recursos.Y pues eso hace que ellos tengan mayor capacidad para poder pagar a los mozos, por ejemplo, para que vayan a ser la [00:05:00] misma. Entonces, eso hace que el resto de la población pues se sienta afectada, porque no tiene los recursos para poder pagar lo que está pagando un migrante. Bueno, eso en alguna medida, está afectando la producción también de maíz, de por sí, ya la había afectado, porque muchos salen y dejan de trabajar la tierra. Los que quieren que se siga trabajando la tierra por parte de su familia mandan recursos, pero digamos que allí los costos se elevan para el resto de la población porque ellos pagan salarios más altos. Entonces, si alguien viene a la comunidad a trabajar, te va a cobrar más de lo que te cobraba anteriormente y muchos no lo pueden pagar.Entonces nos dice, "ya no voy a sembrar, porque el mozo está muy caro." No? Y eso es una afectación, pues directa, digamos a la economía de quien no migra. Y como hay pocos migrantes también, o digo [00:06:00] como hay poca gente que se que que se queda trabajar el campo en la comunidad, ya no hay suficientes personas para que se pueda hacer lo que nosotros llamamos gozona.O sea que vayamos entre todos a trabajar la parcela de cada uno de los que entran a ese tipo de trabajo. Bueno, también, eso es una afectación por la migración. No? Chris: Y Gloria, tú piensas que esa misma dinámica existe o ha pasaron en tu pueblo?Gloria: No, yo digo que igual, sí, estoy de acuerdo con lo que dicen algo y si sí, ha influenciado mucho de las personas que emigran si pagan más que los que no migran. Sí, si se ve mucho ese cambio.Chris: Gracias. Este pues parte de mi mi interés o cómo empecé, eh, acercándome a la cuestión de inmigración fue en parte por mi familia. [00:07:00] También eran migrantes de Macedonia y Grecia, y el otro lado de Inglaterra hacia Canadá hace como 50 años. Entonces este lo que he sentido, es que las dinámicas, las consecuencias de la migración en los pueblos y la gente que no migren, que hay patrones en el nivel mundial, y son casi bueno, muy parecidos. . Encontré un un libro en inglés, pero también existía en español. Eh? Que se llama El Derecho A No M igrar o The Right To Stay Home por David Bacon. Y ese libro, es titulado por una declaración que la gente de FIOB o La Frente Indígena de Organizaciones Binacionales hicieron en ahí en Santiago Juxtlahuaca en La Mixteca, Después de días de días de discutir sobre las [00:08:00] consecuencias de migraciones en los lugares de los migrantes, o sea, los pueblos originarios de los migrantes, resultó una declaración: "el derecho a no migrar conjunto con el derecho a migrar." Entonces tengo curiosidad por saber si ustedes podrían hablar sobre esos tiempos y la declaración, si saben cómo se formó o cómo se fue recibida en la mixteca o en la sierra norte de Oaxaca.Aldo: Bueno, nosotros aquí en la organización. Sí, hemos hablado del derecho a no migrar, porque estamos interesados en fortalecer la identidad de las personas que vivimos en nuestras comunidades. Pues, al final, somos parte de un pueblo más grande. No solamente es nuestra comunidad, sino que hay varias otras comunidades que pertenecemos al mismo pueblo, al pueblo zapoteca y en ese sentido, pues lo que estamos tratando [00:09:00] de hacer es que se fortalezcan nuestras comunidades, que se fortalezcan nuestra comunalidad, que es nuestra forma de organización comunitaria, y por esa razón es que preferiríamos que la gente no migra.Pero el problema es que ha habido un empobrecimiento muy brutal del campo en general, no solamente en México. Lo vemos también en otros países, que los que emigran principalmente son gente que sale del campo y van hacia los estados unidos a trabajar al campo en estados unidos, pero en condiciones que son completamente distintas a como se trabajaba en la comunidad. Incluso aquí en México, algunos van a trabajar en los campos del norte del país, también este en condiciones, pues terribles, con muchos agroquímicos.La gente regresa en algunos casos regresan enfermos, no? O regresan con las patas por delante, dijeron en el pueblo, porque [00:10:00] ya pues están muertos. Regresan nada más para que los entierren en la comunidad. Pero pues, prácticamente toda su vida la hicieron fuera, no? Entonces, quienes se van sufre porque añoran estar en la comunidad. Quieren comer lo que en la comunidad. Quieren escuchar la música de la comunidad. Quieren hacer la vida como si estuvieran en la comunidad, pero ya no está. Quienes se quedan a vivir fuera de la comunidad, digamos en estados unidos, sobre todo, pues sus hijos ya no los van a entender, porque ellos son educados de una manera distinta en escuelas que no tienen nada que ver con su cultura.Digamos que son colonizados mentalmente en las escuelas en estados unidos. Hay muy pocas escuelas que podríamos decir tienen la la eh capacidad de poder ser interculturales y enseñar en español y inglés y [00:11:00] enseñar la cultura de la comunidad y la cultura pues que se viven en los estados unidos, el individualismo.Entonces es muy complejo que un niño de inmigrantes, nacido en estados unidos pueda regresar a la comunidad, porque pues ya se adaptó a otra forma, a otra civilización, a otra forma de vida completamente distinta a la comunitaria. Y bueno, eso a nosotros nos preocupa. Estamos interesados en que la gente se quede.Sabemos que es difícil porque hay pocos recursos económicos en las comunidades, pero aun así pues, estamos haciendo el esfuerzo para que la gente se sienta orgullosa de ser de sus orígenes y no tengan la necesidad de migrar o en último de los casos, si tiene la necesidad de emigrar, por lo menos que tenga una referencia de lo que es su comunidad y la lleve a donde esté, [00:12:00] no?Porque pues, a veces, pues la gente lo hace por necesidad. Y esa necesidad, te lleva a a otros lugares, pero si tú te sientes orgulloso de tu identidad cultural, vas a llevar ese identidad donde tú estés. En el caso de la sierra, hay gente de varias comunidades que hace comunidad en donde está. Pero bueno, obviamente no lo va a poder hacer de la misma manera como si viviera en la comunidad, pero al menos algo se llevan. Otra forma de de ver el mundo se puede llevar también, aunque no la vas a poder practicar como como lo vas a hacer en tu comunidad, no? Y en general, digamos el trabajo que nosotros hacemos en la organización está enfocado a que se fortalezcan, pues distintos mecanismos para que la gente se quede.Por ejemplo, ahorita estamos trabajando en la en el establecimiento de la escuela de agroecología, para que los jóvenes tengan herramientas para [00:13:00] poder sembrar la tierra sin depender de los herbicidas de todos los agroquímicos que vienen con la revolución verde y que son los que utilizan normalmente en los estados unidos para la producción agrícola de la mayoría de las cosas que se hacen allá. Y dentro de este esquema de agroecología, pues obviamente que para nosotros el elemento cultural es es fundamental porque no podemos hacer solamente la agricultura fuera de nuestro contexto territorial-cultural. Entonces, todo esto tiene que estar englobado en esas, iniciativas que estamos tratando de impulsar eso.Chris: Mm ya. Gracias. Gracias, Aldo. Y Gloria, esa declaración surgió en la región en la Mixteca donde estás y pues me gustaría, saber si recuerdes la declaración, si era parte de la política o la gente de tu pueblo?Gloria: Bueno, me enteré que esta declaración surgió debido a las grandes [00:14:00] injusticias que sufre los migrantes. Como dice algo desde el memento en que salen de sus hogares hasta llegar allá en, digamos en estados unidos, donde tienen que trabajar igual y siguen sufriendo lo que son abusos físicos, psicológicos.Y qué más quisiéramos que la gente? Pues no, no emigrara no, pero sabemos que debido a sus necesidades emigran, pero ojalá y cuanto emigraran tuvieran esas so oportunidades de tan si quiere emigrar lo mejor posible que puedan y no pasar tu portando sufrimiento. Mm-hmm. La declaración surgió en esta zona de Juxtlahuaca, según lo que yo he encontrado igual, no sabía mucho sobre esta declaración, pero debido a esto ya cheque. Y sí, la declaración surgió especificamente por las injusticias que sufre la gente desde salir de su hogar, hasta llegar en estados unidos.Todos los abusos que llegan a [00:15:00] sufrir en el camino y hasta igual muchos hasta allá, aunque estén en el trabajo allá, también siguen sufriendo. Y por eso, pues, qué más quisiera la gente que no inmigrara no? Qué más quisiéramos que toda la gente tuviera la dicha de tener una vida digna en su país, en su tierra, para que no tuviera que emigrar, pero sucede, sucede que si emigran, sucede por muchas razones que a veces no están en nuestro alcance poderlos ayudar, pero digamos tan siquiera ofrecerles las oportunidades para que emigren de la mejor manera posible y no tengan tantas desventajas al memento de emigrar.Chris: Gracias. No, pues sí, el pueblo de mi papá, por ejemplo, era un pueblo campesino en Grecia y ya no esta abandonado, pero cuando si salieran hubiera 800 personas. Y el día de hoy hay como 50. Y hay como unos dos, tres campesinos todavía, entonces [00:16:00] este entiendo bien el de lo que dicen y que tan importante es de crear las condiciones para que la gente no necesitan migrarse si no necesitan.Pero me gustaría también preguntarles sobre el éxito quizás que ha existido. Entonces, si hubo una declaración en que salió de la verdad no es muy conocido, a pesar del éxito del libro y y esas cosas. No es muy conocido, por lo que he visto en México y por hablar con algunas personas de FIOB en estados unidos, pero vamos a eso en un memento. Quería preguntarles si hay programas o han visto ciertos éxitos dentro o a través de esas programas que, por ejemplo, que mencionaste Aldo y Glorias si en los pueblos hay como un cambio. Si algo ha cambiado en esos 15 años.Gloria: [00:17:00] Ajá de mi parte. Yo digo que sí. Sí, ha habido un cambio. Tal vez no un cambio directo. No ha habido la declaración. Sí, sí ha ayudado, nada más que nosotros, no lo hemos visto porque casi no se menciona. Pero si ha habido. Gracias a eso, pues se han formado programas, proyectos que se han apoyado a los migrantes, pero que muchas veces nuestros desconocemos.Pero sí, sí existe, digamos el impacto positivo que ha generado esa declaración.Aldo: Bueno, en el caso de la sierra Juárez, la sierra norte de Oaxaca, digamos, hay algunas comunidades que tienen un alto índice de migración y bueno, ahí en algunos casos, han llegado algunos programas, por ejemplo, como " dos por uno," donde los migrantes, digamos, ponen una parte de recursos, el estado pone otra parte o pone dos partes, digamos el gobierno federal, el gobierno del estado para hacer alguna obra en la comunidad.Pero realmente eso no está [00:18:00] solucionando ningún problema, no porque básicamente lo que está haciendo es obligar a los migrantes a que contribuyan a realizar alguna mejor alguna obra en su en su comunidad y cuando esos recursos los podían destinar para sus familias o para otra cosa o para cumplir con sus obligaciones comunitarias, pero no necesariamente realizando las acciones que el gobierno está obligado a rerealizar obras sociales o cosas por el estilo.Entonces, pues yo podría decir que de los programas que que han aparecido en los últimos años, pues tampoco nos han ayudado mucho a a frenar la migración. Por ejemplo, el programa del sexenio pasado más anunciado fue el de Sembrando Vida, no? Y si bien ese apoyo a algunos campesinos en algunas comunidades, no en todas, pues, podríamos [00:19:00] decir que si los capturó para que no migraran hacia los estados unidos, pero dejaron de sembrar maíz cuando inicialmente el programa este era para que sembraran más maíz. Nos pusieron a sembrada arbolitos, no árboles que muchos casos ni siquiera son de la región que no iban a pegar o si iban a pegar, no iban a ser útiles aquí, porque venían de otras regiones o si crecían, ya no iba se ya no iba a poder cultivarse maíz en esos lugares porque les iban a hacer sombra al maíz.Nosotros vivimos en laderas. Aquí no hay lugares planos como en estados unidos, no? Entonces, digamos que programas gubernamentales que hayan beneficiado en alguna medida. El flujo migratorio que hayan hecho que haya menos migratorio, pues tampoco se ven. No se ven con mucha claridad. Nosotros vemos que se siguen estableciendo políticas para destruir el tejido comunitario, para expulsar a la población [00:20:00] del campo hacia las ciudades o hacia los estados unidos.Chris: Gracias, Aldo. Y has mencionado? Que tu trabajo tiene mucho que ver con la regeneración de maíz y obviamente maíz criollo o sea local también. Porque es tan importante para el pueblo frente de las consecuencias de la migración? Aldo: El Maiz para nosotros es un elemento muy importante. Nosotros podríamos decir que es el corazón de la comunidad porque lo vamos a comer todos los días. Nosotros decimos "nativo". Les dicen c"criollo" desde las instituciones de muchos lugares por costumbre, pero la palabra está mal empleada. Nosotros decimos que son nuestros maíces nativos. Y no es lo mismo comer una tortilla de maíz nativo, un elote de nuestros maices, a que comprar un elote que ahora venden en la ciudad que fue hecho con [00:21:00] maíces híbridos o que tengamos que comer tortillas hechas con maíces transgen. Desgraciadamente, en los últimos años, yo creo que no solamente pasa en la sierra, sino en muchos otros lugares del país, se ha incrementado el uso de las tortillerías y entonces ya no sabemos con qué maíz están produciendo esas tortillas, pero no se pueden comparar con las tortillas de nuestros maíces hechas con nuestras propias tecnologías. No? Entonces, yo creo que el maíz para nosotros, además de ser nuestro alimento principal o el que más consumimos, también nos da identidad. El maíz nos convoca, por ejemplo, a trabajar juntos, cosa que en estados unidos, no lo hacen. Todos ellos contratan migrantes para que hagan su trabajo, no? Y ellos van a producir lo que vayan a producir para vender aquí.El maíz que se siembra [00:22:00] normalmente es para consumir. Casi no se vende el maíz. Y por ejemplo, ahora que están poniendo precios de garantía, no? Precio garantía las de MXN $6. En nuestras comunidades, el maíz, no lo puedes vender a MXN $6, o sea, por lo menos, lo vendes a MXN $20, si es que lo vendes, porque es el esfuerzo de tu trabajo y también por la misma gente que la comunidad o incluso por los migrantes o por las familias inmigrantes, es valorado como una, un un alimento que es completamente distinto a el maíz que se compra en la tienda, en la CONASUPO o en Diconsa o en cualquier tienda comercial o qué viene de la tortilla? Entonces hay un aprecio especial por nuestros maíces. Eso es importante, pero cada vez se está produciéndo menos. Ahora anteriormente quien tenía maíz era considerado rico. [00:23:00] Desde una perspectiva comparado de hoy, quien tiene maíz es considerado tonto o pobre porque no tiene dinero. Sin embargo, pues sobre todo los campesinos viejos que dicen bueno, pues "si yo tengo maíz, no necesito dinero" para vivir porque tengo el alimento suficiente. Incluso anteriormente, por ejemplo, cuando la gente tenía que realizar sus cargos comunitarios que no eran pagados ahora en muchas comunidades, han empezado a pagar el cargo. Quien podía ocupar el cargo era un agente mayor, que sus hijos ya habían crecido, pero que además, él tenía maíz para no pedirle favor a nadie de cómo iba a solventar la alimentación de su familia por el año o el tiempo que tuviera que estar al frente del cargo comunitario.Entonces, digamos que el maíz también hace comunidad? Y con estas políticas, falta de apoyos o de [00:24:00] eliminación de apoyo, el campo mexicano están lastimando también nuestras formas de organización communitaria. Eso.Chris: Qué fuerte. Sí, me acordé en lo que dijiste Aldo, unas palabras que que escribió el filósofo Ivan Illich y no sé si es exactamente lo que escribió, pero básicamente dijo que durante casi toda la historia de la humanidad, la mayor medida de la pobreza era si uno tenía o no que comprar su alimento, su comida. Es decir, si tenías comprar tu comida en el pasado, era un señal, una medida de de pobreza, de decir que buenas eres pobre si tienes que comprar. Gloria, tienes algo para agregar a ese punto. Gloria: Ese punto no, no,Chris: [00:25:00] está bien, está bien. Pues me gustaría también seguir con ese lo que mencionaste Aldo, de los recursos y lo que se llaman remisas y por lo que he visto las estadísticas, no dicen que es más o menos seis porciento de la economía mexicana está compuesta por remesas enviadas por familiares o amigos en estados unidos. En algunos de los pueblos a los que me han invitado, me han dicho que el pueblo no sobreviviría sin remesas. En otros. Me han dicho que el pueblo sobreviviría mucho mejor si la gente no se fuera. Este es un tema muy complejo y mi pregunto. Si ustedes dos podrían hablar sobre esa complejidad que han visto en sus pueblos y en otros lugares como resultado de las remesas.Y pues siento que se sale [00:26:00] como ese tema a una pregunta vital o central que es como si una persona puede o no ser responsable de un lugar estando al otro lugar?Gloria: Yo digo que sí. Las remesas si han influido positivamente porque gracias a ellos ha habido muchos negocios, comercio y siento que si le quitáramos esas remesas, esos negocios se caería, porque el dinero que mucha gente que va a gastar en esos negocios es dinero que sus familiares envían de estados unidos. Gracias a ello, pues compran sus alimentos, los materiales que ocupan desde útiles escolares hasta cosas personales que ocupe. Y si en las remesas, yo siento que sí, estaría complicado porque como hasta ahorita, no hay suficientes oportunidades dentro del país para que pueda satisfacer esa demanda, yo siento que si las [00:27:00] quitáramos, sí, sería un impacto muy fuerte negativamente.Aldo: Decía yo que el lunes es el día de mercado en Ixtlan. Es la comunidad más grande de esta región. Y este cuando va uno llegando a isl, lo primero que ve uno es la fila en el banco. Es una fila mayor que cualquier otro día. La mayoría de la gente que está formada ahí va a recibir remesas y luego la va a gastar en en el mercado. En el mejor de los casos, pues sería bueno que comprara cosas de la región, pero muchas de las cosas que compran también son procesadas. Vienen de fuera, no? Incluso una cosa que da hasta miedo a veces es ver cómo la la señora se llevan sus paquetes de maruchan, no? Entonces dice eso es lo [00:28:00] que van a comer los niños. Y sí están cambiándole la alimentación a los niños porque es más fácil poner hervir la sopa que ya viene en esa caja, le echa en agua, se hierve y hasta la comida.Entonces, si se reciben recursos que sostienen a la familia, pero nos están cambiando la forma de vida, porque pues no puedes sobrevivir como estaban haciendo anteriormente nuestros antepasados, nuestros papás, nuestros abuelos, pero nos están cambiando la vida y nos están haciendo dependientes del dinero. Nos están haciendo individualistas también porque ahora tener dinero, pues puede ser una cosa de prestigio, no?Pero realmente las remesas no están resolviendo un problema de fondo en la comunidad. Están resolviendo un problema de una sobrevivencia impuesta, no? [00:29:00] Porque te quitan tu forma de ser, te quitan tu forma de vivir comunitaria y te imponen una forma de vida individual que se basa en el dinero y no en las relaciones familiares o las relaciones comunitarias que existían anteriormente. Entonces, digamos que las remesas te van a ayudar a vivir. Te van a ayudar a comprar cosas, no? Muchas de esas cosas no van a ser locales. O sea, llega el dinero a la comunidad y se va de la comunidad para el que compró cosas fuera de la comunidad y que vino a vender a este lugar, no? Pero, entonces está ayudando podríamos decir que la economía capitalista no está ayudando a la economía comunitaria. Aun cuando sean gentes de la comunidad las que vendan las cosas, no? Digamos que puede ser que una parte se quede en la comunidad porque el comerciante de la comunidad fue a la ciudad, compró las cosas y las trajo aquí.El se va a quedar con su ganancia, pero finalmente le está haciendo el trabajo al [00:30:00] capitalista que produjo esas cosas y las llevó a la comunidad a través de ese comerciante. Entonces las remesas se están ayudando a fortalecer el sistema capitalista y a destruir el sistema comunitario.Chris: Anoche, un amigo me ha contado que hay algunos pueblos aquí en Oaxaca que apenas se juntaron en sus asambleas para platicar sobre la posibilidad que la amenaza del memento de Trump en estados unidos para deportar todos los migrantes.Bueno, no todos los migrantes, pero los migrantes que no conformen con el mundo de Trump ahi en estados unidos. Y qué pasaría? O sea, la gente en las asambleas están hablando de qué pasaría si eso pasaría? Si, de repente hay cientos, si no miles, de compañeros y [00:31:00] familiares que de repente lleguen de nuevo al pueblo y obviamente sin ese esos fondos? Quizás es un poco de lo que pasó en la pandemia. También hubo muchas historias de gente de del norte allá, volviendo a sus pueblos. Y se empezaron a trabajar en las milpas, pero luego se fueron de nuevo a al norte pues a trabajar. Gloria: Sí, bueno, si eso digamos si esa amenaza se llegara a cumplir y todos los migrantes regresaran, yo siento que sería muy complicado para el país sostener a todos esos migrantes, porque hasta ahorita no hay tantas oportunidades. Digamos si hay un programa del más conocido sembrando vida, pero está cumpliendo muy poquito el trabajo que debe de cumplir.Y si te regresaran todos los migrantes nos quedaríamos como que atascados como sería un impacto, yo siento que, negativo, porque no tenemos la posibilidad de de [00:32:00] recibirlos. No tenemos las oportunidades, no tenemos programas, no tenemos, hay muchas cosas que no nos van a favorecer, porque ellos, si ellos regresan, van a ver muchos migrantes, pero sin un sustento, sin algo que los pueda sostener para que tengan una vida más o menos como la que ya tenían cuando estaban allá.Y porque no solo va a afectar a ellos, sino también sus familias que tienen acá al ver que sus familiares que estaban allá ya van a estar acá.Chris: Gracias. Gloria. Sí, Aldo.Aldo: Bueno, algunos empiezan a preguntar a mí. Nosotros vemos que, incluso en estados unidos, hay algunos migrantes que votaron por Trump. Muchos que votaron por Trump. Platicando con algunas personas digamos que los que pagan impuestos y ya tienen su residencia en estados unidos, ven a los migrantes documentados como estorbo, como una competencia [00:33:00] desleal, porque ellos no están obligados a pagar impuestos. Y entonces no.Porque es parte del modelo, el model modelo capitalista diseñado. Digamos que entre los mismos mexicanos inmigrantes, hay contradicciones, hay discriminación. Digamos un migrante que ya es residente, a veces no va a apoyar a un migrante illegal porque puede quitar el empleo.Y bueno, esto nos meten en situaciones complejas al final de cuentas, porque, incluso estos migrantes votaron por Donald Trump. Estarían de acuerdo en que deportaran a los migrantes similares.Es un extremo. Ahora, los migrantes en general, si son deportados, los migrantes indocumentados y son deportados, van afectar la economía también de los estados unidos? No? Porque hay muchas cosas que en estados unidos dejarían de funcionar, si no hay inmigrantes. [00:34:00] O sea, quién va a cuidar a los viejitos, por ejemplo? Muchos migrantes, sobre todo mujeres se dedican al cuidado de personas enfermas o personas mayores de edad que no tienen familia o que si tienen familia de todas formas, los mantienen prácticamente en el abandono o viven de su pensión y ya no pueden hacer su vida normal porque tienen algún padecimiento, etcétera.Y necesitan una gente que las corre Normalmente son mexicanos o son migrantes indocumentados los que hacen ese tipo de trabajo. Este sector de la población de estados unidos se debería afectar. Los granjeros que siembran, digamos, para vender los productos en el mercado de estados unidos, la mayoría contratan migrantes no documentados.Entonces ellos también van a tener un problema de que su producción agrícola va a bajar porque no va a ver migrantes. Y hay otros sectores de la economía en estados unidos que también resultarían afectados. No sé [00:35:00] si Trump no lo está viendo o se hace el que no lo ve o es solamente un amague, como quien dice.Y esta es como una amenaza que no va a cumplir porque finalmente eso afectaría la economía de los estados unidos. Si llegara a hacerse, aunque fuera de manera parcial, que es lo más probable, pues los migrantes que fueran deportados hacia México, no sabemos si traigan remesas o no. No sabemos si hayan tenido ahorros o no.Puede ser que algunos sí, puede ser que algunos no. Muchos de los que regresan ya no están acostumbrados a vivir en comunidad o en su comunidad. No están acostumbrados a vivir a realizar las actividades en el campo y preferirían vivir en la ciudad, pero en la ciudad no va a haber empleo. No va a haber suficientes empleos para que ellos puedan hacer una vida menos [00:36:00] rural, digamos en su regreso a México.Algunos otros dicen bueno, pues si a mí me deporten, pues yo me regreso a sembrar maiz y no pasa nada, pero no creo que sea la mayoría o no creo que sea la totalidad, al menos no los que vayan a regresar a su comunidad. Quienes han trabajado desde niños en la comunidad y saben realizarlas el trabajo de campo, no van a tener problema, pero quienes ya se acostumbraron a realizar actividades que no son agrícolas y han sido obligados a migrar, pues iban a tener ese problema de que no van a saber que hacer cuando retornen a este país o cuando los obliguen a retornar a este país.Chris: Si yo recuerdo leyendo un libro hace unos años, y era un poco raro porque el libro era publicado en 1940. Y fue una historia social de la migración llegando en estados unidos en el [00:37:00] siglo anterior y básicamente dijo que si llegaron como los alemanes o una ola de migrantes alemanes. Los que ya estuvieran allá odiaban los alemanes porque los alemanes estaban listos a pagar más renta y aceptar menos ingresos de trabajo. Y luego otro 10 años, pasa no? Y quizás ya hay más alemanes ahora, pero ya vienen los ucráneos y los alemanes están enojados porque los u cráneos están listos para pagar más renta y trabajar por menos. Y luego los los alemanes se van a la periferia o se encuentran nuevos pueblos o ciudades. Se migran, básicamente. Y es un ciclo que hasta la fecha vemos en lo que dijiste Aldo respeto de la gente que ya tiene residencia en estados unidos, por ejemplo, los mexicanos diciendo que, "pues ya no, ya tengo el mío, [00:38:00] entonces nadie más," no? Ese tiene una historia muy, muy largo.Y además, la cosa que yo crecía en en Toronto en Canadá. Canadá está conocido y también se promueven el país como un país de multiculturalismo. O sea, la gran mayoría de nuestros papás son de otros países. O sea, es un país de migrantes. Pero, crecimos con este idea nacional que la población del país siempre estuvo disminuyendo, o sea menos y menos gente cada generación. Entonces, por eso teníamos que invitar y aceptar un montón de inmigrantes cada año, o sea, un montón de montón. Pero leyendo las historias sociales, me di cuenta que, pues esas invitaciones y sentido de estar abierto al otro, no era parte de la compasión del país canadiense.Era porque [00:39:00] necesitaban cada vez más, entrecomillas "labor barato", o sea, gente que estaban dispuestos a trabajar los trabajos que nadie más querían hacer y por dinero que nadie más querían trabajar. Y entonces el estado tenían que seguir invitando, trayendo gente de afuera para hacer ese trabajo.Y la pregunta sería, entonces quizás, qué haríamos? Como dijo gloria, para asegurar que hay un trabajo digno, hay una vida digna para la gente. Y lo digo porque cuando hablé con un representante de FIOB que era representante de FIOB en 2009 durante la declaración a no migrar. Y le pregunté entonces, por qué esa declaración no ha salido viral o popular en estados unidos y otros países? Y me dijo "ah, bueno, no, es que en estados unidos, la cosa es que si eres de la parte izquierda de la [00:40:00] política, no podrías criticar nada de la migración." O sea, toda la migración es bonito, no? No hay un espejo a las realidades y pero si te criticas la migración en cualquiera manera, eres automáticamente parte de la derecha o ultra derecha. Eres un hijo de Trump, etcétera. Aldo: De hecho, por ejemplo, Trump, no podríamos decir que sea un nativo americano, verdad? Los nativos americanos no tienen el pelo anaranjado. Entonces el vino de otro país, vino de Europa. Y bueno a la mejor ahora ya se siente estadounidense y no quiere que otros vayan a ese país de manera ilegal, como a lo mejor sus papás llegaron a los estados unidos a pagar rentas caras y a recibir salarios bajos. Pero pues él ya se hizo al modo capitalista de estados unidos. Tiene la [00:41:00] nacionalidad de los estados unidos y ahora no quiere que otros migren. Pero tampoco creo que quiera reconocer derechos de los nativos americanos que son quienes han vivido ahí por muchas más generaciones que las de la familia de tronco de muchos otros que se sienten estadounidenses ahora. Estaba viendo hace unos días un video de como viven, algunas familias en Mongolia. Mongolia es un país en donde todavía hay pastores nómadas que no viven en una ciudad o en una comunidad agraria. Viven en un territorio amplio y van siguiendo a su ganado. Que va cambiando de lugar, defendiendo de la estación del año.Ellos no tienen necesidad de emigrar. O sea, ellos han hecho su vida así desde hace mucho tiempo por muchas generaciones. E incluso no tienen la necesidad de tener los recursos económicos para [00:42:00] comprar cosas porque no necesitan tantas cosas. Está en una tienda de campaña para poder irse para otro lado que a lo mejor los muebles más básicos para poder vivir adentro de su tienda de campaña y se acabo.Y eso no quiere decir que sean pobres. El capitalismo mide la pobreza en función de los ingresos económicos. Si ganas menos de al día, pues eres una persona muy pobre. Pero. Pues el dinero no te va a solucionar todos los problemas del mundo. Entonces, creo que tenemos que empezar a mirarnos de otra manera y ver que los recursos económicos no son la única solución para la vida.Nos han hecho creer eso en los últimos años. Entonces, hoy, quien no tiene dinero es pobre, no? Pero creo que hay otras formas en que hemos vivido la mayor parte de la humanidad en este planeta que no eran como esta forma de vida capitalista que hoy nos están imponiendo, no? Y nos la están imponiendo porque [00:43:00] pues cada vez son menos gente las que quieren controlar la economía mundial.O sea, nosotros lo vemos. Cada vez son menos compañías tras nacionales las que tienen, por ejemplo, el negocio de las semillas y las semilleros que había en México hasta hace 30 años, ya desaparecieron en estos últimos años. Y ahora los tienen cuatro grandes empresas a nivel mundial. Pues obviamente que ellos quieren tener el negocio de las semillas y si no quieren que nadie más tenga negocio de las semillas o que los campesinos no tengan sus propias semillas para poder sobrevivir, entonces están expropiando la posibilidad de generar una vida de una manera distinta, no? Entonces ellos nos van a obligar o nos quieren obligar a que hagamos la vida como dependiendo de lo que ellos nos puedan vender, y desaparecer esas otras formas de sobrevivir en el planeta.Yo creo que esas otras formas, aunque muy deterioradas, [00:44:00] muy golpeadas, siguen vigentes en muchos lugares y habrá gente que las quiera reivindicar, nosotros las queremos reivindicar y creemos que hay otra forma de hacer la vida en esta planeta. Hay muchas otras formas de hacer la vida en tu planeta que son.Chris: Gracias, Aldo. Este Gloria, te gustaría agregar algo? Gloria: Sí, bueno, igual por parte de lo como lo que afecta también a que la declaración no sea tan famosa, es porque, como dice Aldo, es que estamos tan enfocados en el capitalismo que si por un memento, no nos enfocáramos en ese ámbito del capitalismo, yo siento que, pues todos dirían que tienen una vida digna en sus tierras y se quedarían más, pero como todos estamos enfocados en lo material, en el dinero y todo eso, pues decimos que para qué vamos a dar tanto mención a la declaración, si no es útil, [00:45:00] supuestamente? Pero es porque hemos tenido tanto esa idea del capitalismo de que siempre queremos ver dinero, todo lo que implica el capitalismo, y nos olvidamos un poco de lo que realmente significa tener la vida digna, porque pues somos esos ricos en muchas cosas, no? Tenemos agua, tenemos tierra. Y podríamos ser felices con eso. Pero igual no nos conformamos con eso. Siempre queremos más porque esas son las ideas que el capitalismo nos ha metido. Mm-hmm.Chris: Gracias, gloria. Igual, para mí, como aunque he pasado mucho tiempo, visitando y trabajando unos pueblos de Oaxaca, creciendo en un metrópolis urbano, occidental moderno, etcétera, yo tengo que imaginar una vida digna. Yo no crecí en una sociedad donde podían apuntar a un ejemplar de una vida digna. [00:46:00] En ese libro que escribió de David be David bacon sobre la ola o caravana más reciente de inmigrantes que se dirigen a los estados unidos, esta vez de este Venezuela, se mencionó en 2023 creo, se estima que 200,000 migrantes ingresaron a los estados unidos caras. Teniendo en cuenta esas cifras y las diversas crisis que obligan a las personas a mudarse en nuestros tiempos, qué consejos o comentarios les daría a las personas, ya sean campesinos indígenas o modernos que ven la migración como la única respuesta?Gloria: Sí. Sí. Bueno, el consejo que yo daría así sería que si tienen las posibilidades, como digo, si tienen.Aunque no [00:47:00] tengan mucho, no, pero si me nací en una zona donde no hay violencia donde más o menos, si pueden vivir más o menos, si pueden tener una vida digna o a lo que se puede asemejar a una vida digna, pues que se queden ahí. No hay necesidad. Bueno, sí. Sabes que si hay necesidad, pero que no se vean tan forzados a migrar?Porque pues hay es complicado, es difícil todo lo que van a sufrir toda lo que implica, como digo, también un principio, muchos emigran para mejorar sus vidas, pero igual o mejorar la vida de sus familias. Pero muchos cuando regresan esas familias por las que se fueron, cuando regresan, esa familia ya no la encuentran. Ya está muerta. Muchos que igual tengo motivos que igual emigraron. Y se fueron para dar mejor vida a sus papás, pero sus papás ya murieron y ellos todavía siguen sin regresar. Y la vida a y se supuestamente le [00:48:00] iban a dar mejor vida, pero nunca sucedió. Simplemente están sobreviviendo, pero nunca, nunca cumplieron ese sueño.Y yo digo, el consejo que yo les daría es que si tiene la posibilidad de tener una vida digna en sus tierras, pues que se queden ahí y que no vean la migración como el gran sueño, como como todos este lo imaginamos, no?Aldo: Bueno, yo creo que la migración no es una decisión de las personas que se ven obligadas a migrar. Hay muchos factores. Estados unidos necesita mano de obra barata, como tú decías. Entonces, pues aunque Trump diga que no quiere emigrantes, si quiere migrantes. Y lo que sucede en Venezuela, pues al final de cuentas es parte de las políticas que se hicieron en estados unidos, no? Ahí metieron a ese país en crisis.Y luego llegó un ticket de los estados unidos [00:49:00] y les dijo a sus paisanos que se inmigraban hacia los estados unidos. Iban a ser bien recibidos. Nunca se imaginaron el calvario que tenían que sufrir en el tránsito para poder llegar a estados unidos. Y cuando llegan a estados unidos, pues tampoco son bien recibidos como les habían ofrecido que sería su bienvenida, no?Y en México, nosotros vemos ahora en nuestro país, por ejemplo, como se ha incrementado de manera exponencial la violencia en las zonas rurales. Esa violencia no solamente está obligando a la gente a migrar, sino que, pues los está desalojando de sus tierras, no? Y normalmente esto se hace porque, hay otros intereses en esas tierras y las quieren, quieren las tierras, pero las quieren sin gente.Y entonces se va a implementar el mecanismo de la violencia para que esa [00:50:00] gente se vea obligada a salir y por lo tanto, se vea obligada a migrar a donde sea, porque ya no puede vivir en paz en la comunidad donde nació, donde se acostumbra a vivir, no? Entonces la migración no es un fenómeno natural. Es un fenómeno que ha sido creado por el mismo capital, que lo necesita para sobrevivir como sistema capitalista, y que está quitándole la posibilidad de vivir bien a la gente que vive en lugares muy remotos donde no necesitaban incluso de su existencia como sistema.Eso.Chris: Gracias, Aldo. Sí, seguramente las causas de la migración muchas veces vienen del motor de capitalismo de [00:51:00] guerra, plagas y hambre.Y podemos pensar más en que hay ciertas personas que que tienen que emigrar, que tienen que emigrar. No tienen opción. Y además, cuando se emigran y las noticias del dinero, del prestigio, privilegio, vuelve a los pueblos, a las familias que también el tema puede quedar en asuntos de ambición, envidia, deseo, que la gente que tiene opción puede entender las consecuencias a su propio pueblo, a su propia gente, a los que se quedan o dejan atrás, no? Y bueno, me gustaría en el nombre de nuestros oyentes, agradecerles muchísimo por sus tiempo y [00:52:00] presencia hoy por sus reflexiones y consideraciones por sus trabajos y compromisos en el mundo.Lo agredezco mucho. Les agradezco mucho. Y hasta la próxima, gracias, Aldo. Gracias, Gloria. Gloria: Igual, gracias! Aldo: Pues mucho gusto. Mucho gusto. Gloria. Nos vemos. Chris, si. English TranscriptionChris: [00:00:00] Welcome Aldo and welcome Gloria to the podcast the end of tourism. Thank you both for being willing to talk with me today about these topics. I'm curious if you two would be willing to give a little introduction or summary about yourselves.Ah, ado, we didn't hear you.Aldo: Well, about my trips, well, I don't travel. I hardly have any vacations. But because of work, I have had to go to different places in the world. We could say, basically because of the work I do?Rather than going to see the places where I have been invited, what I have done is go and talk to the people who are in those places about the problems we have here in the region.The problems we have in Mexico and [00:01:00] who has allowed me to travel to different places has been the problem of contamination by transgenic corn. So that has made it so that, with that anger that weighed on me in 2001, I have had the opportunity to go to other places to talk a little about that particular problem and many others that are related to it, not the issue of transgenics or the issue of agrochemicals or the issue of corporate control over food, over seeds as well.So, let's say that in general, most of the trips I have made are related to these accents or to the rights of indigenous peoples as well.Chris: Thanks, Aldo. And could you tell us where you are today?Aldo: Eh? Well, today I am in Guelatao and it is my community and I am in the offices of my organization, which is the union of organizations of the Sierra Juarez.Chris: Thank you very much, [00:02:00] Hello Aldo and Gloria.Gloria: Yes, the same. I have rarely left the state, but I do know a lot of people who usually emigrate to the United States, which is where most of them live, but they don't emigrate much to other states. But most of them do emigrate to the United States. I have a lot of neighbors, family, and a lot of people from here in Coycoyan. They do emigrate more to the United States.Chris: Okay. Thank you so much for uh, being on time with us today. So, although it's early in the conversation, my question is about how have you seen the return of migrants to their villages affect the community in your own places or towns?Gloria: Yes, in how long has it affected the community? That many when they return, well, they already have other ideas, other culture, another way of seeing life and sometimes many no longer [00:03:00] want to participate in the community assemblies or they come with other techniques, let's say, of cultivation and the techniques that they had here before, well, they are already lost and I see more and more how this also affects their personal lives, because many when they return they already return sick, tired.In the best of cases, many of them return with money, right? And that makes the people who are in the town see that since they did well, they also want to emigrate and then there are more people who want to migrate and they become more and they have the idea that, well, there is an opportunity for them to improve their lives in the United States.But I say that in general the impact is both positive and [00:04:00] negative, because as I say, many return tired, sick. Many also leave their families here and when they return, their families can no longer find them, or some who leave their parents, when they return their parents have already died or there are situations like that that impact their personal life.Chris: Thanks, Gloria. Aldo, would you like to respond?Aldo: Although there aren't many of them here in the community of Guelatao, there isn't as much migration as in other nearby communities. Let's say that one of the things that we see that has affected us is that prices are rising, because they bring money and no longer work in the fields. So, they receive resources for their families.And that makes them have a greater capacity to pay the waiters, for example, so that they can be the same . So, that makes the rest of the population feel affected, because they do not have the resources to be able to pay what a migrant is paying. Well, that to some extent is affecting corn production as well, in itself, it had already affected it, because many leave and stop working the land. Those who want their family to continue working the land send resources, but let's say that there the costs rise for the rest of the population because they pay higher salaries. So, if someone comes to the community to work, they will charge you more than they charged you before and many cannot pay it.Then he tells us, "I'm not going to plant anymore, because the boy is too expensive." Right?And that has a direct impact on the economy of those who do not migrate.And since there are few migrants too, or I say [00:06:00] since there are few people who stay to work the fields in the community, there are no longer enough people to be able to do what we call gozona.So let's all work together on the part of each of those who enter this type of work. Well, that is also an impact of migration, right?Chris: And Gloria, do you think that the same dynamic exists or has happened in your town?Gloria: No, I say that it is the same, yes, I agree with what they say and yes, it has greatly influenced the people who emigrate if they pay more than those who do not migrate. Yes, that change is very noticeable.Chris: Thank you. Well, part of my interest or how I started, uh, approaching the immigration issue was partly because of my family. [00:07:00] They were also migrants from Macedonia and Greece, and the other side from England to Canada about 50 years ago. So what I've felt is that the dynamics, the consequences of migration on the people and the people who don't migrate, that there are patterns at the global level, and they are almost, well, very similar.I found a book in English, but it also existed in Spanish. Eh? It's called The Right Not to Migrate or The Right To Stay Home by David Bacon. And that book, it's titled after a declaration that the people of FIOB or the Indigenous Front of Binational Organizations made there in Santiago Juxtlahuaca in La Mixteca,After days and days of discussing the consequences of migration in the places of the migrants, that is, the native peoples of the migrants, a declaration was made: "the right not to migrate together with the right to migrate." So I'm curious to know if you could talk about those times and the declaration, if you know how it was formed or how it was received in the Mixteca or in the northern mountains of Oaxaca.Aldo: Well, here in the organization, yes, we have talked about the right not to migrate, because we are interested in strengthening the identity of the people who live in our communities. Well, in the end, we are part of a larger community. It is not only our community, but there are several other communities that belong to the same people, to the Zapotec people, and in that sense, what we are trying to do is [00:09:00] What we have to do is strengthen our communities, strengthen our communality, which is our form of community organization, and for that reason we would prefer that people do not migrate.But the problem is that there has been a brutal impoverishment of the countryside in general, not only in Mexico. We also see it in other countries, that those who emigrate are mainly people who leave the countryside and go to the United States to work in the fields in the United States, but in conditions that are completely different from how they worked in the community. Even here in Mexico, some go to work in the fields in the north of the country , too . It is in terrible conditions , with many agrochemicals.People come back, in some cases they come back sick, right? Or they come back with their feet up, they said in the village, because [00:10:00] they are already dead. They come back just to be buried in the community. But well, they practically lived their whole life outside, right?So, those who leave suffer because they long to be in the community. They want to eat what they eat in the community. They want to listen to the music of the community. They want to live as if they were in the community, but it is no longer there. Those who stay to live outside the community, let's say in the United States, especially, because their children will no longer understand them, because they are educated in a different way in schools that have nothing to do with their culture.Let's say that they are mentally colonized in schools in the United States. There are very few schools that we could say have the capacity to be intercultural and teach in Spanish and English and [00:11:00] teach the culture of the community and the culture that is experienced in the United States, individualism.So it is very difficult for a child of immigrants, born in the United States, to return to the community, because he or she has already adapted to another way, to another civilization, to another way of life completely different from the community. And well, that worries us. We are interested in people staying.We know that it is difficult because there are few economic resources in the communities, but even so, we are making the effort so that people feel proud of their origins and do not have the need to migrate or, in the last case, if they have the need to emigrate, at least they have a reference of what their community is like and take it to wherever they are, [00:12:00] right?Because sometimes people do it out of necessity. And that necessity takes you to other places, but if you feel proud of your cultural identity, you will take that identity wherever you are. In the case of the mountains, there are people from various communities who make a community where they are. But obviously they won't be able to do it in the same way as if they lived in the community, but at least they take something with them.You can also take another way of seeing the world, although you won't be able to practice it like you would in your community, right? And in general, let's say the work we do in the organization is focused on strengthening different mechanisms so that people stay.For example, right now we are working on establishing an agroecology school, so that young people have the tools to [00:13:00] be able to plant the land without depending on herbicides and all the agrochemicals that come with the green revolution and that are the ones normally used in the United States for agricultural production of most of the things that are done there.And within this agroecology framework, obviously for us the cultural element is fundamental because we cannot do only agriculture outside of our territorial-cultural context. So, all of this has to be included in these initiatives that we are trying to promote.Chris: Mm, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Aldo. And Gloria, that statement arose in the Mixteca region where you are and I would like to know if you remember the statement, if it was part of the politics or the people of your town?Gloria: Well, I learned that this statement came about because of the great [00:14:00] injustices that migrants suffer. As it says something from the moment they leave their homes until they get there, let's say in the United States, where they have to work the same and continue to suffer physical and psychological abuse.And what else would we want from people? Well, no, they wouldn't emigrate, no, but we know that they emigrate due to their needs, but I hope that those who emigrate have those opportunities so that if they want to emigrate as best they can and not go through suffering. Mm-hmm.The declaration arose in this area of Juxtlahuaca, according to what I have found, I did not know much about this declaration, but because of this I have already checked. And yes, the declaration arose specifically because of the injustices that people suffer from leaving their homes until arriving in the United States.All the abuses that they [00:15:00] end up suffering along the way and even many of them there, even if they are working there, they also continue to suffer. And for that reason, well, what more would people want than for them not to immigrate, right? What more would we want for all people to have the good fortune of having a dignified life in their country, in their land, so that they do not have to emigrate, but it happens, it happens that if they emigrate, it happens for many reasons that sometimes it is not within our reach to be able to help them, but let's say at least to offer them the opportunities so that they emigrate in the best way possible and do not have so many disadvantages at the time of emigrating.Chris: Thank you. No, yes, my father's village, for example, was a peasant village in Greece and it is no longer abandoned, but when they left there were 800 people. And today there are about 50. And there are still about two, three peasants, so [00:16:00] I understand well what they are saying and how important it is to create the conditions so that people do not need to migrate if they do not need to.But I would also like to ask you about the success that has perhaps existed. So, if there was a statement that came out of the truth, it is not very well known, despite the success of the book and those things. It is not very well known, from what I have seen in Mexico and from speaking with some people from FIOB in the United States, but we will get to that in a moment. I wanted to ask you if there are programs or have you seen certain successes within or through those programs, for example, that you mentioned Aldo and Glorias, if there is a change in the towns. If something has changed in those 15 years.Glory: [00:17:00] Aha, from my side. I say yes. Yes, there has been a change. Maybe not a direct change. There has not been a declaration. Yes, it has helped, but we have not seen it because it is hardly mentioned. But there has been. Thanks to that, programs and projects have been created that have supported migrants, but which many times we are unaware of.But yes, there is, let's say, the positive impact that this statement has generated.Aldo: Well, in the case of the Sierra Juárez, the northern mountains of Oaxaca, let's say, there are some communities that have a high rate of migration and well, in some cases, some programs have arrived, for example, like "two for one," where the migrants, let's say, put up part of the resources, the state puts up another part or puts up two parts, let's say the federal government, the state government to do some work in the community.But that really isn't [00:18:00] solving any problem, not because basically what it's doing is forcing migrants to contribute to doing some better work in their community and when those resources could be used for their families or for something else or to fulfill their community obligations, but not necessarily carrying out the actions that the government is obliged to do, such as social works or things of that sort.So, I could say that the programs that have appeared in recent years have not helped us much to stop migration. For example, the most advertised program of the last six-year period was Sembrando Vida, right? And although that support was given to some farmers in some communities, not in all of them, we could [00:19:00] say that they were captured so that they would not migrate to the United States, but they stopped planting corn when initially the program was for them to plant more corn.They made us plant little trees, not trees that in many cases were not even from the region, that were not going to grow well or if they were going to grow well, they were not going to be useful here, because they came from other regions or if they grew, it was no longer going to be possible to grow corn in those places because they would shade the corn.We live on hillsides. There are no flat places here like in the United States, right? So, let's say that government programs that have benefited to some extent. The migratory flow that has made there less migration, well, they are not seen either. They are not seen very clearly. We see that policies continue to be established to destroy the community fabric , to expel the population . [00:20:00] from the countryside to the cities or to the United States. Chris: Thanks, Aldo. And you mentioned that your work has a lot to do with the regeneration of corn, and obviously local corn as well. Why is it so important for the people in the face of the consequences of migration?Aldo: Corn is a very important element for us. We could say that it is the heart of the community because we eat it every day. We say "native." Institutions in many places call it "criollo" out of habit, but the word is misused. We say that it is our native corn.And it is not the same to eat a tortilla made from native corn, an ear of corn from our corn, than to buy an ear of corn that they now sell in the city that was made with [00:21:00] hybrid corn or that we have to eat tortillas made with transgenic corn. Unfortunately, in recent years, I think it happens not only in the mountains, but in many other places in the country, the use of tortilla factories has increased and so we no longer know what corn they are producing those tortillas with, but they cannot be compared to the tortillas made from our corn with our own technologies. Right?So, I think that corn, for us, besides being our main food or the one we consume the most, also gives us identity. Corn, for example, calls us to work together, which is something that is not done in the United States. They all hire migrants to do their work, right? And they are going to produce what they are going to produce to sell here.The corn that is planted [00:22:00] is normally for consumption. Corn is hardly sold. And for example, now that they are setting guaranteed prices, right? Guaranteed price is MXN $6. In our communities, corn, you cannot sell it for MXN $6, or at least, you sell it for MXN $20, if you sell it, because it is the effort of your work and also by the same people in the community or even by migrants or immigrant families, it is valued as a, a food that is completely different from the corn that is bought in the store, at CONASUPO or at Diconsa or in any commercial store or what comes from tortillas? So there is a special appreciation for our corn. That is important, but it is being produced less and less. Now previously, whoever had corn was considered rich. [00:23:00] From a comparative perspective of today, anyone who has corn is considered stupid or poor because he has no money. However, especially the older peasants who say, well, "if I have corn, I don't need money" to live because I have enough food.Even before, for example, when people had to carry out their community duties, which were not paid in many communities, they started to pay for the position. The person who could occupy the position was an older agent, whose children had already grown up, but who also had corn so that he did not ask anyone for a favor about how he was going to pay for the food of his family for the year or the time that he had to be in charge of the community office.So, let's say that corn also creates community? And with these policies, lack of support or [00:24:00] elimination of support, the Mexican countryside is also hurting our forms of community organization. That's it.Chris: That's powerful. Yes, I remembered what you said, Aldo, some words that the philosopher Ivan Illich wrote, and I don't know if it's exactly what he wrote, but he basically said that for almost all of human history, the greatest measure of poverty was whether or not one had to buy one's food. That is, if you had to buy your food in the past, it was a sign, a measure of poverty, to say that you are poor if you have to buy. Gloria, do you have anything to add to that point?Gloria: Not that point, no,Chris: [00:25:00] Okay, okay. Well, I would also like to continue with what you mentioned, Aldo, about the resources and what are called remittances, and from what I have seen in the statistics, they do not say that more or less six percent of the Mexican economy is made up of remittances sent by family or friends in the United States.In some of the villages I have been invited to, I have been told that the village would not survive without remittances. In others, I have been told that the village would survive much better if people did not leave. This is a very complex issue and I wonder if the two of you could talk about that complexity that you have seen in your villages and elsewhere as a result of remittances.[00:26:00] goes beyond that topic to a vital or central question, which is whether a person can or cannot be responsible for one place while being in another place?Gloria: I say yes. Remittances have had a positive influence because thanks to them there have been many businesses, commerce and I feel that if we took away those remittances, those businesses would fall, because the money that many people spend in those businesses is money that their relatives send from the United States. Thanks to that, they buy their food, the materials they need from school supplies to personal things they need. And if in remittances, I feel that yes, it would be complicated because as until now, there are no
A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight Producer Swati Rayasam showcases a community panel of how discriminatory exclusion policies during times of heightened fears of national security and safety have threatened our communities in the past, and how the activities of the current administration threaten our core constitutional rights, raising the specter of politicization and polarization of citizenship, immigration visas, naturalization rights, and the right to free speech. Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison – “Wong Kim Ark is for All of Us” SHOW TRANSCRIPT Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to APEX Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm back as your special producer for this episode. Tonight we have an incredible community panel titled Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison. This panel explores the history of how discriminatory exclusion policies during times of heightened fears of national security and [00:01:00] safety have threatened our communities in the past, and how the activities of the current administration threaten our core constitutional rights, raising the specter of politicization and polarization of citizenship, immigration visas, naturalization rights, and the right to free speech. I'll pass it on to UC Berkeley Ethnic Studies Professor Mike Chang to kick us off. Mike and Harvey: We're starting on Berkeley time, right on time at three 10, and I want to introduce Harvey Dong. Harvey Dong: Okay. The sponsors for today's event include, AADS- Asian American and Diaspora studies program, uc, Berkeley, Asian American Research Center, the Center for Race and Gender Department of Ethnic Studies- all part of uc, Berkeley. Off campus, we have the following community groups. Chinese for Affirmative Action, Asian Law Caucus, [00:02:00] Asian Prisoners Support Committee, and East Wind Books. Okay, so that's, quite a few in terms of coalition people coming together. My name is Harvey Dong and I'm also a lecturer in the AADS program and part of the ethnic studies department. I can say that I exist here as the result of birthright citizenship won by Ancestor Wong Kim Ark in 1898. Otherwise, I would not be here. We want to welcome everyone here today, for this important panel discussion titled: Deport, Exclude, Revoke, Imprison – Immigration and citizenship rights during crisis. Yes, we are in a deep crisis today. The Chinese characters for crisis is way G in Mandarin or way gay in [00:03:00] Cantonese, which means danger and opportunity. We are in a moment of danger and at the same time in a moment of opportunity. Our communities are under attack from undocumented, documented, and those with citizenship. We see urgency in coming together. In 1898, the US Supreme Court case, US versus Wong Kim Ark held that under the 14th Amendment birthright, citizenship applies to all people born in the United States. Regardless of their race or their parents' national origin or immigration status. On May 15th this year, the Supreme Court will hear a President Donald Trump's request to implement an executive order that will end birthright citizenship already before May 15th, [00:04:00] deportations of US citizen children are taking place. Recently, three US citizen children, one 2-year-old with cancer have been deported with their undocumented parents. The numbers of US citizen children are much higher being deported because it's less covered in the press. Unconstitutional. Yes, definitely. And it's taking place now. Also today, more than 2.7 million southeast Asian Americans live in the US but at least 16,000 community members have received final orders of deportation, placing their lives and families in limbo. This presents a mental health challenge and extreme economic hardship for individuals and families who do not know whether their next day in the US will be their last. Wong Kim Ark's [00:05:00] struggle and the lessons of Wong Kim Ark, continue today. His resistance provides us with a grounding for our resistance. So they say deport, exclude, revoke, imprison. We say cease and desist. You can say that every day it just seems like the system's gone amuk. There's constant attacks on people of color, on immigrants and so forth. And our only solution, or the most important solution is to resist, legally resist, but also to protest, to demand cease and desist. Today brings together campus and community people. We want you all to be informed because if you're uninformed , you can't do anything. Okay? You have to know where things are at. It's nothing new. What they're trying to do, in 1882, [00:06:00] during times of economic crisis, they scapegoated Asian Americans. Today there's economic, political crisis. And the scapegoating continues. They're not doing anything new. You know, it's old stuff, but we have to realize that, and we have to look at the past in terms of what was done to fight it and also build new solidarities today. Wong Kim Ark did not take his situation sitting down. He went through, lots of obstacles. He spent three months in Angel Island he was arrested after he won his case because he was constantly being harassed wherever he went. His kids when they came over were also, spotted as being Wong Kim Ark's, children, and they too had to spend months at Angel Island. So Wong Kim Ark did not take his situation sitting down. We need to learn from him today. Our [00:07:00] next, special guest is Mr. Norman Wong, a good friend of mine. He was active here in the third world Liberation Front strike that led to ethnic studies. He did a lots of work for the development of Asian American studies and we've been out in touch for about, what, 40 years? So I'm really happy that he's able to come back to Berkeley and to talk about yourself, if you wish, maybe during the Q and a, but to talk about , the significance of your great-grandfather's case. Okay, so Norman Wong, let's give him a hand. Norman Wong: Hello, my name's Norman Wong. I'm the great grandson, Wong Kim Ark. Wong Kim Ark was [00:08:00] born in the USA, like my great-grandfather. I, too was born American in the same city, San Francisco, more than 75 years after him. We are both Americans, but unlike him, my citizenship has never been challenged. His willingness to stand up and fight made the difference for his struggles, my humble thanks. Wong Kim Ark however, was challenged more than once. In late 1889 as an American, he traveled to China in July, 1890. He returned to his birth city. He had his papers and had no problems with reentry. In 1895, after a similar trip, he was stopped from disembarking and was placed into custody for five months aboard ship in port. [00:09:00] Citizenship denied, the reason the Chinese exclusion Act 1882. He had to win this case in district court, provide $250 bail and then win again in the United States Supreme Court, March 28th, 1898. Only from these efforts, he was able to claim his citizenship granted by birthright from the 14th Amendment and gain his freedom. That would not be the last challenge to his being American. My mother suffered similar treatment. She like my great-grandfather, was born in America. In 1942, she was forced with her family and thousands of other Japanese Americans to relocation camps an experience unspoken by her family. [00:10:00] I first learned about Japanese American internment from history books. Executive order 9066 was the command. No due process, citizenship's rights stripped. She was not American enough. Now we have executive order 14160. It is an attack on birthright citizenship. We cannot let this happen. We must stand together. We are a nation of immigrants. What kind of nation are we to be with stateless children? Born to no country. To this, I say no. We as Americans need to embrace each other and [00:11:00] cherish each new life. Born in the USA. Thank you. Harvey Dong: Thank you, Norman. And Annie Lee, will moderate, the following panel, involving campus and community representatives who will be sharing their knowledge and experience. Annie Lee, Esquire is an attorney. She's also the, managing director of policy for Chinese Affirmative Action, and she's also, heavily involved in the birthright citizenship issue. Annie Lee: Thank you so much Harvey for that very warm welcome and thank you again to Norman for your remarks. I think it's incredible that you're speaking up at this moment, to preserve your ancestors' legacy because it impacts not just you and him, but all of us [00:12:00] here. So thank you. As Harvey said, my name is Annie Lee and I have this honor of working with this amazing panel of esteemed guest we have today. So I will ask each of them to introduce themselves. And I will start, because I would love to hear your name, pronouns. Title and organization as well as your personal or professional relationship with the US Immigration System. So my name's Annie. I use she her pronouns. I'm the managing Director of policy at Chinese for Affirmative Action, which is a non-profit based in San Francisco Chinatown. We provide direct services to the monolingual working class Chinese community, and also advocate for policies to benefit all Asian Americans. My relationship with the immigration system is I am the child of two Chinese immigrants who did not speak English. And so I just remember lots of time spent on the phone when I was a kid with INS, and then it became U-S-C-I-S just trying to ask them what happened to [00:13:00] a family member's application for naturalization, for visas so I was the interpreter for them growing up and even today. I will pass it to Letty. Leti Volpp: Hi everybody. Thank you so much, Annie. Thank you Harvey. Thank you, Norman. That was profoundly moving to hear your remarks and I love the way that you framed our conversation, Harvey. I'm Leti Volpp. I am the Robert d and Leslie k Raven, professor of Law and Access to Justice at the Berkeley Law, school. I'm also the director of the campus wide , center for Race and Gender, which is a legacy of the Third World Liberation Front, and the 1999, student movement, that led to the creation of the center. I work on immigration law and citizenship theory, and I am the daughter, second of four, children of my mother who was an immigrant from China, and my father who was an immigrant [00:14:00] from Germany. So I'll pass it. Thank you. Ke Lam: Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Norman. So my name's Key. I go by he, him pronouns or Nghiep “Ke” Lam, is my full name. I work for an organization called Asian Prison Support Committee. It's been around for like over two decades now, and it started behind three guys advocating for ethics study, Asian and Pacific Islander history. And then it was starting in San Quent State Prison. All three of them pushed for ethics study, hard and the result is they all was put into solitary confinement. And many years later, after all three got out, was Eddie Zang, Mike Romero and Mike no. And when they got out, Eddie came back and we pushed for ethics study again, and we actually got it started in 2013. And it's been going on to today. Then the programs is called Roots, restoring our Original True Self. So reconnecting with who we are. And one of Eddie's main, mottos that really stuck with me. He said, we need to all connect to our chi, right? And I'm like, okay, I understand what chi is, and he said no. He [00:15:00] said, you need to connect to your culture, your history, which result to equal your identity, who you are as a person. So, the more we study about our history and our culture, like, birthright citizen, it empower us to know, who we are today. Right? And also part of that is to how do we take down the veil of shame in our community, the veil of trauma that's impacting our community as well. We don't talk about issue that impact us like immigration. So I'm a 1.5 generation. So I was born in Vietnam from Chinese family that migrant from China to Vietnam started business after the fall of Vietnam War. We all got kicked out but more than that, I am directly impacted because I am a stranded deportee, somebody that got their, legal status taken away because of criminal conviction. And as of any moment now, I could actually be taken away. So I live in that, right at that threshold of like uncertainty right now. And the people I work with, which are hundreds of people, are fixing that same uncertainty.[00:16:00] Annie Lee: Thank you, Ke. I'm gonna pass it to our panelists who are joining us virtually, including Bun. Can you start and then we'll pass it to Chris after. Bun: Hey everybody, thank you for having me. My name is Bun. I'm the co-director of Asian Prison Support Committee. I'm also, 1.5 generation former incarcerated and under, direct impact of immigration. Christopher Lapinig: Hi everyone. My name is Christopher Lapinig, my pronouns are he, him and Sha. I am a senior staff attorney on the Democracy and National Initiatives Team at Asian Law Caucus, which you may know is the country's first and oldest legal aid in civil rights organization, dedicated to serving, low income immigrant and underserved AAPI communities. In terms of my connection to the immigration system, I am, I also am a beneficiary of a birthright citizenship, and my parents are both immigrants from the Philippines. I was born in New York City. My [00:17:00] extended family spans both in the US and the Philippines. After graduating law school and clerking, my fellowship project was focused on providing litigation and immigration services to, survivors of labor trafficking in the Filipino community. While working at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Los Angeles, I also was engaged in, class action litigation, challenging the first Trump administration's practices, detaining immigrants in the Vietnamese and Cambodian communities. Annie Lee: Thank you, Chris. Thank you Bun. Let's start off by talking about birthright citizenship since it's a big topic these days. On the very, very first day of Trump's administration, he issued a flurry of executive orders, including one that would alter birthright citizenship. But I wanna take us back to the beginning because why do we have this right? It is a very broad right? If you were born in the United States, you are an American citizen. Where does that come from? So I wanna pose the first question to Letty to talk about the [00:18:00] origins of birthright citizenship., Leti Volpp: Very happy to. So what's being fought about is a particular clause in the Constitution and the 14th Amendment, which says, all persons born are naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. Okay, so that's the text. There's been a very long understanding of what this text means, which says that regardless of the immigration status of one's parents, all children born here are entitled to birthright citizenship with three narrow exceptions, which I will explain. So the Trump administration executive order, wants to exclude from birthright citizenship, the children of undocumented immigrants, and the children of people who are here on lawful temporary visas. So for example, somebody here on an [00:19:00] F1 student visa, somebody on a H one B worker visa, somebody here is a tourist, right? And basically they're saying we've been getting this clause wrong for over a hundred years. And I will explain to you why I think they're making this very dubious argument. Essentially when you think about where the 14th amendment came from, in the United States, in the Antebellum era, about 20% of people were enslaved and there were lots of debates about citizenship. Who should be a citizen? Who could be a citizen? And in 1857, the Supreme Court issued a decision in a case called Dread Scott, where they said that no person who was black, whether free or enslaved, could ever be a citizen. The Civil War gets fought, they end slavery. And then the question arose, well, what does this mean for citizenship? Who's a citizen of the United States? And in 1866, Congress [00:20:00] enacts a law called the Civil Rights Act, which basically gave rights to people that were previously denied and said that everybody born in the United States is a birthright citizen. This gets repeated in the 14th Amendment with the very important interpretation of this clause in Norman's great-grandfather's case, the case of Wong Kim Ark. So this came before the Supreme Court in 1898. If you think about the timing of this, the federal government had basically abandoned the reconstruction project, which was the project of trying to newly enfranchised, African Americans in the United States. The Supreme Court had just issued the decision, Plessy versus Ferguson, which basically legitimated the idea that, we can have separate, but equal, as a doctrine of rights. So it was a nation that was newly hostile to the goals of the Reconstruction Congress, and so they had this case come before them, whereas we heard [00:21:00] from Norman, we have his great-grandfather born in San Francisco, Chinatown, traveling back and forth to China. His parents having actually left the United States. And this was basically presented as a test case to the Supreme Court. Where the government tried to argue, similar to what the Trump administration is arguing today, that birthright citizenship, that clause does not guarantee universal birthright citizenship saying that children of immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction thereof, not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because their parents are also not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. The Supreme Court took over a year to decide the case. They knew that it would be controversial, and the majority of the court said, this provision is clear. It uses universal language. It's intended to apply to children of all immigrants. One of the things that's interesting about [00:22:00] what the, well I'll let Chris actually talk about what the Trump administration, is trying to do, but let me just say that in the Wong Kim Ark decision, the Supreme Court makes very clear there only three narrow exceptions to who is covered by the 14th Amendment. They're children of diplomats. So for example, if the Ambassador of Germany is in the United States, and, she has a daughter, like her daughter should not become a birthright citizen, right? This is why there's diplomatic immunity. Why, for example, in New York City, there are millions of dollars apparently owed to the city, in parking tickets by ambassadors who don't bother to pay them because they're not actually subject to the jurisdiction in the United States. Okay? Second category, children of Native Americans who are seen as having a sovereign relationship of their own, where it's like a nation within a nation, kind of dynamic, a country within a country. And there were detailed conversations in the congressional debate about the [00:23:00] 14th Amendment, about both of these categories of people. The third category, were children born to a hostile invading army. Okay? So one argument you may have heard people talk about is oh, I think of undocumented immigrants as an invading army. Okay? If you look at the Wong Kim Ark decision, it is very clear that what was intended, by this category of people were a context where the hostile invading army is actually in control of that jurisdiction, right? So that the United States government is not actually governing that space so that the people living in it don't have to be obedient, to the United States. They're obedient to this foreign power. Okay? So the thread between all three of these exceptions is about are you having to be obedient to the laws of the United States? So for example, if you're an undocumented immigrant, you are subject to being criminally prosecuted if you commit a crime, right? Or [00:24:00] you are potentially subjected to deportation, right? You have to obey the law of the United States, right? You are still subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Okay? But the Trump administration, as we're about to hear, is making different arguments. Annie Lee: Thank you so much, Leti for that historical context, which I think is so important because, so many different communities of color have contributed to the rights that we have today. And so what Leti is saying here is that birthright citizenship is a direct result of black liberation and fighting for freedom in the Civil War and making sure that they were then recognized as full citizens. And then reinforced, expanded, by Wong Kim Ark. And now we are all beneficiaries and the vast majority of Americans get our citizenship through birth. Okay? That is true for white people, black people. If you're born here, you get your ci. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to go to court. You don't have to say anything. You are a US citizen. And now as Leti referenced, there's this fringe legal theory that, thankfully we've got lawyers like [00:25:00] Chris who are fighting this. So Chris, you're on the ALC team, one of many lawsuits against the Trump administration regarding this unlawful executive order. Can you tell us a little bit about the litigation and the arguments, but I actually really want you to focus on what are the harms of this executive order? Sometimes I think particularly if you are a citizen, and I am one, sometimes we take what we have for granted and you don't even realize what citizenship means or confers. So Chris, can you talk about the harms if this executive order were to go through? Christopher Lapinig: Yeah. As Professor Volpp sort of explained this executive order really is an assault on a fundamental constitutional right that has existed for more than a hundred years at this point, or, well, about 125 years. And if it is allowed to be implemented, the harms would really be devastating and far reach. So first, you know, children born in the us, the [00:26:00] parents without permanent status, as permissible said, would be rendered effectively stateless, in many cases. And these are of course, children, babies who have never known any other home, yet they would be denied the basic rights of citizen. And so the order targets a vast range of families, and not just undocument immigrants, but also those with work visas, student visas, humanitarian productions like TPS, asylum seekers, fleeing persecution, DACA recipients as well. And a lot of these communities have deep ties to Asian American community. To our history, and of course are, essential part, of our social fabric. In practical terms, children born without birthright citizenship would be denied access to healthcare through Medicaid, through denied access to snap nutritional assistance, even basic IDs like social security numbers, passports. And then as they grow older, they'd be barred from voting, serving on juries and even [00:27:00] working. And then later on in life, they might be, if they, are convicted of a crime and make them deportable, they could face deportation to countries that they never stepped, foot off basically. And so this basically is this executive order threatened at risk, creating exactly what the drafters of the 14th Amendment wanted to prevent the creation of a permanent underclass of people in the United States. It'll just get amplified over time. If you can imagine if there's one generation of people born without citizenship, there will be a second generation born and a third and fourth, and it'll just get amplified over time. And so it truly is just, hard to get your mind around exactly what the impact of this EO would be. Annie Lee: Thanks, Chris. And where are we in the litigation right now? Harvey referenced, a hearing at the Supreme Court on May 15th, but, tell us a little bit about the injunction and the arguments on the merits and when that can, when we can expect [00:28:00] that. Christopher Lapinig: Yeah, so there were a number of lawsuits filed immediately after, the administration issued its exec order on January 20th. Asian Law Caucus we filed with the ACLU Immigrant Rights Project. Literally we were the first lawsuit, literally hours after the executive order was issued. By early February, federal judges across the country had issued nationwide preliminary injunctions blocking implementation of the order. Our case is actually not a nationwide injunction. And so there're basically, I believe three cases that are going up to the Supreme Court. And, the Trump administration appealed to various circuit courts to try to undo these injunctions. But all circuit courts upheld the injunctive relief and and so now the Supreme Court is going to be hearing arguments on May 15th. And so it has not actually ruled on whether or not the executive order is constitutional, but it's going to. I mean, it remains to be seen exactly what they're going to decide but may [00:29:00] 15th is the next date is the big date on our calendar. Annie Lee: Yeah. So the Trump administration is arguing that these judges in a particular district, it's not fair if they get to say that the entire country, is barred from receiving this executive order. Is that procedurally correct. Judges, in order to consider whether to grants an injunction, they have a whole battery of factors that they look at, including one, which is like likelihood of winning on the merits. Because if something is unconstitutional, it's not really great to say, yeah, you can let this executive order go through. And then like later when the court cases finally worked their way, like a year later, pull back from that. And so that's, it's very frustrating to see this argument. And it's also unfair and would be very messy if the states that had republican Attorneys General who did not litigate, why would you allow the executive order to go forward in those red states and not in these blue state? It really, I would say federalism run terribly amuck. Swati Rayasam: [00:30:00] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley,. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Annie Lee: But anyway, let's see back off from the actual case because I think what we're really talking about and what Chris has alluded to is, these cases about birthright citizenship, all the immigration policy is essentially determining who belongs here. Who belongs here. That's what immigration policy is at its heart. And we see that the right wing is weaponizing that question, who belongs here? And they are going after very vulnerable populations, undocumented people, people who are formerly incarcerated. So Bun if you can talk about how, is the formerly incarcerated community, like targeted immigrants, targeted for deportation? What is going on with this community that I feel like most people might not know about? Thank [00:31:00] you. Bun: Yes. For our folks that are incarcerated and former incarcerated, we are the easiest target for deportation because we are in custody and in California, CDCR colludes with ICE and on the day that we are to be paroled they're at the door, cuffing us up and taking us to detention. I'm glad to hear Harvey say, this is a time of fear for us and also opportunity. Right now, our whole community, the Southeast Asian community, mainly are very effective with immigration. In the past 25 years, mostly it was the Cambodian community that was being targeted and deported. At this moment, they are targeting, all of the Southeast Asian community, which historically was never deported because of the politics and agreements, of the Vietnamese community. And now the Laos community thats more concerning, that are being targeted for deportation. Trump have opened a new opportunity for us as a community to join [00:32:00] together and understand each other's story, and understand each other's fear. Understand where we're going about immigration. From birthright to crimmagration. A lot of times folks that are under crimmigration are often not spoken about because of our cultural shame, within our own family and also some of our community member felt safe because the political agreements. Now that everybody's in danger, we could stand together and understand each other's issue and support each other because now we could see that history has repeated itself. Again, we are the scapegoat. We are here together fighting the same issue in different circumstances, but the same issue. Annie Lee: But let me follow up. What are these, historical agreements that you're talking about that used to feel like used to at least shield the community that now aren't in place anymore? Bun: Yeah. After the Clinton administration, uh, passed the IRA [immigration reform act] a lot of Southeast Asian nations were asked to [00:33:00] take their nationals back. Even though we as 1.5 generation, which are the one that's mostly impacted by this, had never even stepped into the country. Most of us were born in a refugee camp or we're too young to even remember where they came from. Countries like Cambodian folded right away because they needed the financial aid and whatever, was offering them and immediately a three with a MOU that they will take their citizens since the early two thousands. Vietnam had a stronger agreement, which, they would agree to only take folks that immigrated here after 1995 and anybody before 1995, they would not take, and Laos have just said no until just a few months ago. Laos has said no from when the, uh, the act was passed in 1995, the IRRIRA. Mm-hmm. So the big change we have now is Vietnam had signed a new MOU saying that they will take folks after 1995 [00:34:00] in the first administration and more recently, something that we never thought, happened so fast, was Laos agreeing to take their citizen back. And then the bigger issue about our Laos community is, it's not just Laos folks. It's the Hmong folks, the Myan folks, folks, folks that are still in danger of being returned back 'cause in the Vietnam War, they colluded and supported the Americans in the Vietnam War and were exiled out and kicked out, and were hunted down because of that. So, at this moment, our folks are very in fear, especially our loud folks, not knowing what's gonna happen to 'em. Ke Lam: So for folks that don't know what IRR means it means, illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. It actually happened after the Oklahoma bombing, which was caused by a US citizen, a white US citizen. Yeah. But immigration law came out of it. That's what's crazy about it. Annie Lee: Can you tell us, how is APSC advocating to protect the community right now because you [00:35:00] are vulnerable? Ke Lam: So we had to censor a lot of our strategies. At first we used to use social media as a platform to show our work and then to support our community. But the government use that as a target to capture our people. So we stopped using social media. So we've been doing a lot of on the ground movement, such as trying to get local officials to do resolutions to push Governor Newsom to party more of our community members. The other thing is we hold pardon workshops, so try and get folks to get, either get a pardon or vacate their sentence. So commute their sentence to where it become misdemeanor is not deportable anymore. Support letters for our folks writing support letters to send to the governor and also to city official, to say, Hey, please help pardon our community. I think the other thing we are actually doing is solidarity work with other organizations, African American community as well as Latin communities because we've been siloed for so long and we've been banned against each other, where people kept saying like, they've taken all our job when I grew up. That's what they told us, right? [00:36:00] But we, reality that's not even true. It was just a wedge against our community. And then so it became the good versus bad narrative. So our advocacy is trying to change it it's called re-storying you know, so retelling our story from people that are impacted, not from people, not from the one percenters in our own community. Let's say like we're all good, do you, are there's parts of our community that like that's the bad people, right? But in reality, it affects us all. And so advocacy work is a lot of different, it comes in a lot of different shapes and forms, but definitely it comes from the community. Annie Lee: Thanks, Ke. You teed me up perfectly because there is such a good versus bad immigrant narrative that takes root and is really hard to fight against. And that's why this administration is targeting incarcerated and formerly incarcerated folks and another group that, are being targeted as people who are accused of crimes, including Venezuelan immigrants who are allegedly part of a gang. So, Leti how is the government deporting [00:37:00] people by simply accusing them of being a part of a gang? Like how is that even possible? Leti Volpp: Yeah, so one thing to think about is there is this thing called due process, right? It's guaranteed under the constitution to all persons. It's not just guaranteed to citizens. What does it mean? Procedural due process means there should be notice, there should be a hearing, there should be an impartial judge. You should have the opportunity to present evidence. You should have the opportunity to cross examinee. You should have the opportunity to provide witnesses. Right? And basically Trump and his advisors are in real time actively trying to completely eviscerate due process for everybody, right? So Trump recently said, I'm doing what I was elected to do, remove criminals from our country. But the courts don't seem to want me to do that. We cannot give everyone a trial because to do so would take without exaggeration, 200 years. And then Stephen Miller said the judicial process is for Americans. [00:38:00] Immediate deportation is for illegal aliens. Okay. Quote unquote. Right. So I think one thing to notice is, as we're hearing from all of our speakers are like the boxes, the categories into which people are put. And what's really disturbing is to witness how once somebody's put in the box of being quote unquote criminal gang banger terrorists, like the American public seems to be like, oh, okay you can do what you want to this person. There's a whole history of due process, which exists in the laws which was created. And all of these early cases actually involved Asian immigrants, right? And so first they were saying there's no due process. And then in a case called Yata versus Fisher, they said actually there is due process in deportation cases, there's regular immigration court proceedings, which accord with all of these measures of due process. There's also a procedure called expedited removal, [00:39:00] which Congress invented in the nineties where they wanted to come up with some kind of very quick way to summarily exclude people. It was motivated by a 60 Minutes episode where they showed people coming to Kennedy Airport, who didn't have any ID or visa or they had what seemed to be fake visas and they were let into the United States. And then they disappeared, right? According to the 60 Minutes episode. So basically Congress invented this procedure of, if you appear in the United States and you have no documents, or you have what an immigration inspector thinks are false documents, they can basically tell you, you can leave without this court hearing. And the only fail safe is what's called a credible fear screening. Where if you say, I want asylum, I fear persecution, I'm worried I might be tortured, then they're supposed to have the screening. And if you pass that screening, you get put in regular removal [00:40:00] proceedings. So before the Trump administration took office, these expedited removal proceedings were happening within a hundred miles of the border against people who could not show that they had been in the United States for more than two weeks. In one of his first executive orders. Trump extended this anywhere in the United States against people who cannot show they've been in the United States for more than two years. So people are recommending that people who potentially are in this situation to carry documentation, showing they've been physically in the United States for over two years. Trump is also using this Alien Enemies Act, which was basically a law Congress passed in 1798. It's only been used three times in US history it's a wartime law, right? So it was used in 1812, World War I, and World War II, and there's supposed to be a declared war between the United States and a foreign nation or government, or [00:41:00] there's an incursion threatened by a foreign nation or government, and the president makes public proclamation that all natives of this hostile nation, 14 and up shall be liable to be restrained and removed as alien enemies. Okay? So we're obviously not at war with the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, right? They have not engaged in some kind of invasion or predatory incursion into the United States, but the Trump administration is claiming that they have and saying things like, oh, they're secretly a paramilitary wing of the Venezuelan government, even as the Venezuelan government is like cracking down on them. It's not a quasi sovereign, entity. There's no diplomatic relationships between Tren de Aragua and any other government. So these are legally and factually baseless arguments. Nonetheless, the administration has been basically taking people from Venezuela on the basis of tattoos. A tattoo of a crown of a [00:42:00] rose, right? Even when experts have said there's no relationship between what Tren de Aragua does and tattoos, right? And basically just kidnapping people and shipping them to the torture prison in El Salvador. As I'm sure you know of the case of Kimber Abrego Garcia, I'm sure we'll hear more about this from Christopher. There's a very small fraction of the persons that have been sent to this prison in El Salvador who actually have any criminal history. And I will say, even if they had a criminal history, nobody should be treated in this manner and sent to this prison, right? I mean, it's unbelievable that they've been sent to this prison allegedly indefinitely. They're paying $6 million a year to hold people there. And then the United States government is saying, oh, we don't have any power to facilitate or effectuate their return. And I think there's a struggle as to what to call this. It's not just deportation. This is like kidnapping. It's rendition. And there are people, there's like a particular person like who's completely [00:43:00] disappeared. Nobody knows if they're alive or dead. There are many people in that prison. People don't know if they're alive or dead. And I'm sure you've heard the stories of people who are gay asylum seekers, right? Who are now in this situation. There are also people that have been sent to Guantanamo, people were sent to Panama, right? And so I think there questions for us to think about like, what is this administration doing? How are they trying to do this in a spectacular fashion to instill fear? As we know as well, Trump had said oh, like I think it would be great when he met with Bukele if you build four more or five more facilities. I wanna house homegrown people in El Salvador, right? So this is all the more importance that we stick together, fight together, don't, as key was saying, don't let ourselves be split apart. Like we need a big mass coalition right? Of people working together on this. Annie Lee: So thank you leti and I think you're absolutely right. These Venezuelans were kidnapped [00:44:00] in the middle of the night. I mean, 2:00 AM 3:00 AM pulled out of bed, forced to sign documents they did not understand because these documents were only available in English and they speak Spanish, put on planes sent to El Salvador, a country they've never been to. The government didn't even have to prove anything. They did not have to prove anything, and they just snatch these people and now they're disappeared. We do have, for now the rule of law. And so Chris, there are judges saying that, Kimber Abrego Garcia has to be returned. And despite these court orders, the administration is not complying. So where does that leave us, Chris, in terms of rule of law and law in general? Christopher Lapinig: Yeah. So, I'm gonna make a little personal. So I graduated from Yale Law School in 2013, and you might know some of my classmates. One of my classmates is actually now the Vice President of the United States. Oh man. [00:45:00] Bless you. As well as the second lady, Usha Vance. And a classmate of mine, a good friend Sophia Nelson, who's a trans and queer, was recently on, I believe CNN answering a question about, I believe JD Vice President Vance, was asked about the administration's sort of refusal to comply with usual orders. Yeah. As we're talking about here and JD had said something like, well, courts, judges can't tell the president what he can't do, and sophia, to their credit, said, you know, I took constitutional law with JD, and, we definitely read Marbury Versus Madison together, and that is the semial sort of Supreme Court case that established that the US Supreme Court is the ultimate decider, arbiter, interpreter, of the US Constitution. And so is basically saying, I know JD knows better. He's lying essentially, in all of his [00:46:00] communications about, judicial orders and whether or not a presidential administration has to comply , with these orders. So, to get to your question though, it is of course unprecedented. Really. It is essentially, you know, it's not, if we not already reached. The point of a constitutional crisis. It is a constitutional crisis. I think it's become clear to many of us that, democracy in the US has operated in large part, and has relied on, on, on the good faith in norms, that people are operating good faith and that presidents will comply when, a federal judge issues an injunction or a decision. It kind of leaves us in an interesting, unprecedented situation. And it means that, lawyers, we will continue to litigate and, go to court, but we can't, lawyers will not save the country or, immigrants or communities. We need to think extensively and creatively. [00:47:00] About how to ensure, that the rule of law is preserved because, this administration is not, abiding by the longstanding norms of compliance and so we have to think about, protests, advocacy, legislatively. I don't have the answers necessarily, but we can't rely on the courts to fix these problems really. Annie Lee: Oof. That was very real, Chris. Thank you. But I will say that when there is resistance, and we've seen it from students who are speaking up and advocating for what they believe is right and just including Palestinian Liberation, that there is swift retaliation. And I think that's partly because they are scared of student speech and movement and organizing. But this is a question to all of you. So if not the courts and if the administration is being incredibly retaliatory, and discriminatory in terms of viewpoint discrimination, in people and what people are saying and they're scouring our social [00:48:00] media like, Ke warns, like what can everyday people do to fight back? That's for all of you. So I don't know who, which of you wants to take it first? Ke Lam: Oh man. I say look at history, right? Even while this new president, I wanna say like, this dude is a convicted felon, right? Don't be surprised at why we country is in the way it is, because this dude's a convicted felon, a bad business person, right? And only care about the billionaires, you know? So I'm not surprised how this country's ending up the way it is 'cause it is all about money. One way that we can stand up is definitely band together, marched on the streets. It's been effective. You look at the civil right movement, that's the greatest example. Now you don't have to look too far. We can actually, when we come together, they can't fight us all. Right? It is, and this, it's like you look at even nature in the cell. When things band together, the predators cannot attack everyone. Right? They probably could hit a few of us, but in the [00:49:00] long run, we could change the law. I think another thing is we, we, as the people can march to the courts and push the courts to do the job right, despite what's going on., We had judges that been arrested for doing the right thing, right? And so, no matter what, we have to stand strong just despite the pressure and just push back. Annie Lee: Thanks, Ke. Chris? Christopher Lapinig: What this administration is doing is you know, straight out of the fascist playbook. They're working to, as we all know, shock and awe everyone, and make Americans feel powerless. Make them feel like they have no control, make them feel overwhelmed. And so I think first and foremost, take care of yourself , in terms of your health, in terms of your physical health, your mental health. Do what you can to keep yourself safe and healthy and happy. And do the same for your community, for your loved ones, your friends and family. And then once you've done that do what you can in terms of your time, treasure, [00:50:00] talent to, to fight back. Everyone has different talents, different levels of time that they can afford. But recognize that this is a marathon and not necessarily a sprint because we need everyone, in this resistance that we can get. Annie Lee: Thank you, Chris. Leti Volpp: There was a New Yorker article called, I think it was How to Be a Dissident which said, before recently many Americans, when you ask them about dissidents, they would think of far off countries. But they interviewed a lot of people who'd been dissidents in authoritarian regimes. And there were two, two things in that article that I'm taking with me among others. One of them said that in surveying like how authoritarian regimes are broken apart, like only 3.5% of the population has to oppose what's going on. The other thing was that you should find yourself a political home where you can return to frequently. It's almost like a religious or [00:51:00] spiritual practice where you go and you get refreshed and you're with like-minded people. And so I see this event, for example as doing that, and that we all need to find and nurture and foster spaces like this. Thank you. Annie Lee: Bun, do you have any parting words? Bun: Yeah. Like Ke said, to fight back, getting together, understanding issues and really uplifting, supporting, urging our own communities, to speak Up. You know, there's folks that can't speak out right now because of fear and danger, but there are folks here that can speak out and coming here learning all our situation really give the knowledge and the power to speak out for folks that can't speak down [unclear] right now. So I appreciate y'all Annie Lee: love that bun. I was gonna say the same thing. I feel like there is a special obligation for those of us who are citizens, citizens cannot be deported. Okay? Citizens have special rights based [00:52:00] on that status. And so there's a special responsibility on those of us who can speak, and not be afraid of retaliation from this government. I would also urge you all even though it's bleak at the federal level, we have state governments, we have local governments. You have a university here who is very powerful. And you have seen, we've seen that the uni that the administration backs down, sometimes when Harvard hit back, they back down and that means that there is a way to push the administration, but it does require you all putting pressure on your schools, on your local leaders, on your state leaders to fight back. My boss actually, Vin taught me this. You know, you think that politicians, lead, politicians do not lead politicians follow. Politicians follow and you all lead when you go out further, you give them cover to do the right thing. And so the farther you push and the more you speak out against this administration, the more you give them courage to do the right thing. And so you absolutely have to do that. A pardon [00:53:00] is critical. It is critical for people who are formerly incarcerated to avoid the immigration system and deportation. And so do that. Talk to your family, talk to your friends. My parents, despite being immigrants, they're kinda old school. Okay guys, they're like, you know, birthright citizenship does seem kind of like a loophole. Why should people like get like citizenship? I'm like, mom, we, I am a birthright citizen. Like, um, And I think for Asian Americans in particular, there is such a rich history of Asian American civil rights activism that we don't talk about enough, and maybe you do at Berkeley with ethnic studies and professors like Mike Chang. But, this is totally an interracial solidarity movement. We helped bring about Wong Kim Ark and there are beneficiaries of every shade of person. There's Yik wo, and I think about this all the time, which is another part of the 14th Amendment equal protection. Which black Americans fought for that in San Francisco. [00:54:00] Chinatown made real what? What does equal protection of the laws even mean? And that case was Seminole. You've got Lao versus Nichols. Another case coming out of San Francisco. Chinatown about English learner rights, the greatest beneficiary of Lao v Nichols, our Spanish speakers, they're Spanish speaking children in schools who get access to their education regardless of the language they speak. And so there are so many moments in Asian American history that we should be talking about, that we should educate our parents and our families about, because this is our moment. Now, this is another one of those times I wanna pass it to Mike and Harvey for questions, and I'm so excited to hear about them. Mike and Harvey: Wow, thank you so much. That's a amazing, panel and thank you for facilitating annie's wanna give it of a great value in terms of that spiritual home aspect. Norm how does your great grandfather's , experience in resistance, provide help for us [00:55:00] today? Norman Wong: Well, I think he was willing to do it. It only took one, if no one did it, this, we wouldn't be having the discussion because most of us would've never been here. And we need to come together on our common interests and put aside our differences because we all have differences. And if we tried, to have it our way for everything, we'll have it no way for us. We really need to, to bond and bind together and become strong as a people. And I don't mean as a racial or a national group. Mm-hmm. I mean, we're Americans now. We're Americans here think of us as joining with all Americans to make this country the way it's supposed to be. The way [00:56:00] we grew up, the one that we remember, this is not the America I grew up believing in. I'm glad he stood up. I'm proud that he did that. He did that. Him doing that gave me something that I've never had before. A validation of my own life. And so yes, I'm proud of him. Wong Kim Ark is for all of us. It's not for me to own. Yeah. Wow. Really not. Thank you so much. Wong Kim Ark is for all of us. And, and , talking about the good , that we have here and, the optimism that Harvey spoke about, the opportunity, even in a moment of substantial danger. Thank you so much everybody. Mike and Harvey: This was amazing and really appreciate sharing this space with you and, building community and solidarity. Ke Lam: But is there any, can I leave with a chant before we close off? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. So this is a chant that we use on the ground all the time. You guys probably heard it. When I said when we fight, you guys said we [00:57:00] win when we fight. We win when we fight, we win. When we fight, we win up. Swati Rayasam: Thanks so much for tuning into APEX Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support, and have a good [00:58:00] night. The post APEX Express – 6.26.25-Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison – Wong Kim Ark is for All of Us appeared first on KPFA.
Antoine Larvol, CTO of Windar Photonics, discusses how their continuous wave LiDAR technology enhances wind turbine performance through optimization and monitoring, increasing AEP and reducing loads, particularly for legacy turbines. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind. Energy's brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering Tomorrow. Alright, we're here in Phoenix, a CP, clean power, uh, 2025. So I'm, uh. Sitting with Antoine Larvol from, he's a CTO from Windar. Yep. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Uh, we've been, uh, happy enough to get actually to sit inside your booth where it's nice and qui. Quiet and isn't it nice? Yeah. We got glass behind the camera here and people are walking by, walking by, walking by. Um, so this morning, uh, we, we talked yesterday a little bit about what wind photonics does. Yep. Of course, from our, uh, some of our other friends around the world. We've heard about some, some campaigns you've done in the United States, which have been. Really successful. So yeah, congrat good. Congratulations there. Yeah, thank you. Um, and, and as, as a lot of things in the wind industry, Windar, photonics based in Denmark. Antoine Larvol: Yeah. Joel Saxum: So you guys, uh, bring it, bring in that Danish [00:01:00]technology. We're here, of course, bringing it to the US market at a CP, the American Clean Power Show. So welcome to the States. Thank you. Um, it's a short one, but a Antoine Larvol: good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Joel Saxum: exactly. So, so I want to talk a little bit about what Windar photonics and, and it is a LIDAR based sensor, correct? Antoine Larvol: Yes. Right. So. We do continuous wave base, uh, lidar. Yep. Uh, main product is a two beam version mm-hmm. Where you shoot, uh, at 80 meters in front of the turbine. Mm-hmm. And you basically alternate from one beam to the other. And measure wind speed and direction upfront, the, the turbine among others. Joel Saxum: Right. So we're talking about, uh, if you, if you're in the wind industry, you've ever seen these lidar units that are put actually, you're the cell mounted, correct? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, and, and, uh, we're looking more on the optimization, retrofit monitoring side of things. Yeah, Antoine Larvol: exactly. So we've never been a resource assessment company. Yeah. Or we don't look at power curve verification and stuff like that. We really [00:02:00] focus on. Retrofitting those, existing turbines. And then add value to In terms of information to, the customer, Yeah. With the mon monitoring side of things. Yeah. And, from day one, that's been the goal of Windar Making something cheap, robust. That can just stay there and measure with good availability, wind speed, and direction coming to your turbine. Joel Saxum: I love it. so we wanna squeeze as much as we can outta these turbines. And you guys are increasing AEP that's, the name of the game. Yeah. Right. Increasing AEP below rated. and then above rated you decrease loads. Increase uptime. and we basically do that by going on the line of the wind direction. that you then feed to the turbine controller and then we can actually adjust the, yaw position of the turbine according to our information. So I want to talk a little bit, we, we chatted a little bit offline about the, technology behind it, right? Yep. And people in the wind industry, if you're around the wind industry around resourcing or you're around optimization, you've heard [00:03:00] lidar. Yep. You know what I mean? And,
Welcome back to the 237th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 237th episode we bring you a Duet Review of of Sweet Sorrow, the latest immersive theatrical experience to open in Toronto that's presented by À Toi & Coffee Oysters Champagne. Join Mackenzie Horner and special guest Alicia Plummer, as they discuss the perfect atmosphere this production has set up, how this piece compares to other immersive pieces we've previously covered, and they break down the very intense ending sequence of the show. Sweet Sorrow is playing at Coffee Oysters Champagne (214 King St W Basement Level 1, Toronto, ON M5H 3S6) every Sunday at 6:30pm and 8:30pm until early September 2025. Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/sweet-sorrow-tickets-1269670491619 This review contains many SPOILERS for Sweet Sorrow. It will begin with a general non-spoiler review until the [10:07] mark, followed by a more in-depth/anything goes/spoiler-rich discussion. If you intend to see the production, we recommend you stop watching after that point, or at least proceed at your own risk. Follow our panelists: Mackenzie Horner (Before the Downbeat: A Musical Podcast) – Instagram/Facebook: BeforetheDownbeatApple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3aYbBeN Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3sAbjAu Alicia Plummer – Instagram: @itsaliciaplummer // TikTok: hialiciabyealicia Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com
Tiff and Dana are in the mood to talk about moods — specifically when it comes to setting the tone for patients and case acceptance. The two discuss overcoming objections from a foundational level, including your mindset, effective language, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners we are so excited to be here with you today. I have back on the podcast with me Miss Dana. I am so excited to see your beautiful smiling face today and gosh Britt did Rim to Rim, Grand Canyon Rim to Rim recently and Dana I've lived here my whole life. I am an Arizona girl. I love the mountains and I'm like, gosh, people just go out there and it's like, why didn't you bring water? Right? Like you guys are crazy. You've been here for a long time. You hike avidly. Your husband hikes more avidly than anyone I know and knows the Arizona mountains like the back of his hand as if he grew up here. And I'm like, yeah, I could do rim to rim. And then Britt got back and I was like, Dana (00:47) you The Dental A Team (00:48) Okay, Dana, like we should do Rim to Rim, but holy cow. If you guys don't know what Grand Canyon Rim to Rim is, please go look it up. It's like an event that people literally, my boyfriend says to have like, you take it for granted. People literally come here from other countries to see the Grand Canyon. I do take it for granted, that's fair. But hearing Britt's story, Dana, I'm like, holy cow. If we are going to ever do that in our lifetime, I think we need to start today. What do how do you prepare for that? Dana (01:18) Yeah, my biggest takeaway is like the planning of it because I like because I avidly had because my husband like you're right hikes more than any human on earth like I'm just like we can just go do room term and honestly, I'll be like I was like, no, I'm doing rim to rim to rim. Like I'm not loving at the first. I'm not starting at just rim. And then hearing her I'm like, Okay, well, I definitely need to plan. The Dental A Team (01:22) Yes! Literally. Yes! Yes! literally the same. Dana (01:45) more because I'm like I hike in Arizona all the time. I know what the heat is. I know how to hydrate. I know how to do all those pieces. I'm like but maybe I should plan it out a little bit more. The Dental A Team (01:54) Literally what I said, my takeaway was I did not do planning for it and I didn't, I just, I don't know, I'm take it for granted. I didn't think it was necessary. I'm like, I hike, I work out, I run, I do the stair climber, I do cycle, I do spin classes. Like I am pretty okay to just like sign up for a race and do it and whatever and I thought the same thing minus the rim to rim trip. I was not going an extra rim. I thought I could just pop over and do rim to rim like no big deal people do it all the time constantly can't be that hard just kidding just kidding so I think we need it on our bucket list here within the next I would say three years based on the fact that I'm over 40 at this point I'm not gonna lie to myself I'm not I need to get myself three years to get this sucker done ⁓ and probably shorter than that so Dina we just need to prep and plan for this sucker Dana (02:53) Yep. Yeah, we just need to pick a date, right? Because if I don't pick a date, can think I'm going to plan all I want. ⁓ So I just need to pick a date and then I will force myself to plan. Now that I know how much prep I should probably put into it. The Dental A Team (02:55) We need to a Yep. same. Same z's. I agree. I agree. I tell people that constantly. I'm like, gosh, the most fit you'll ever be is when you know vacation is coming. You will have bikini body ready when you know that vacation is coming. But when there's not something planned, you're like, I'll do it. I'll eat this for now and I'll make it up later. I do it constantly. So you're right. Okay. Everybody just congratulate Britt for surviving rim to rim. And that's a real statement for surviving. Um, it's a huge feat. It's massive. So if you are on our Instagram, which I'm sure you are just give her a shout out. If you see her face in there, if you're one of her clients and didn't know she did it, congratulations. Here you go. Text her. Um, but it was super cool. So Dana, we're going to put it on our list. That's our next to do. We'll add it to, uh, our fitness challenge thing over there. channel. Today guys, I wanted to talk about more than the Grand Canyon, but seriously if you don't know what it is, you should look it up. And if you are planning on coming and you don't live in Arizona, like seriously you think we need to plan like prep and freaking plan you guys? There was another hiker this weekend and it's not even our true ⁓ hot season yet and there was another hiker this weekend in Phoenix that did not make it through her hike and she was an avid avid hiker. So it's no joke you guys. ⁓ Please be safe. So on that note, overcoming objections is actually what I wanted to talk about today. So rim to rim is my objection today. I'm not ready for it. I get that. But overcoming objections in the practice, you guys, we really want to talk about case acceptance and what that might look like. And doctors, office managers, I know sometimes we get in the space of like, this is for my treatment coordinator. Doctors, this is for you too, especially when you're chair-side treatment planning. Because sometimes I feel like Dana, feel like doctors get that look of glazed over, like, okay, either this is too much information or I've checked out because I have an objection, but we just talk through it, right? And how many times have we even done that in a personal relationship? That makes me laugh because I'm thinking, even my kid, I'll just keep talking at him and wait for him to catch up. And then he's like, yeah, sure. And then turns around and I'm like, I don't think that's gonna happen. Whatever that was. He checked out. He's obviously no, right? Yeah. Dana (05:24) I'm thinking that, no. The Dental A Team (05:27) Like he checked out and I didn't catch it. So the moment when there's a checkout, like that's your objection. There's an objection in there somewhere. Either it was overload of information or they're just not, they're not on board yet because of a reason. I like to go into everything assuming, yes, I live my life that way. My boyfriend's constantly like telling me that I'm like a golden retriever. Right, I'm just like, yep, life is great, what's next, let's go. Because it's just a detour. Whatever it is, it's just a detour. And it's an opportunity to gain more information, in my opinion. So if there's a no, if there's a roadblock, I'm like, cool. What can I learn from this? What information do I need in order to get around this roadblock? Or should I be taking a different route? So it's a detour. So when I go into a treatment case, when I'm presenting treatment or when I'm training team members to present treatment and doctors, I'm constantly in the yes mindset. Tony Robbins talks a lot about mindset, about mind frame, on where you're supposed to be, and that yes zone is massive. If I assume the yes, I'm leaving opportunity for that. And Dana, isn't it true, like when you go into a conversation with the like, yeah, everything's gonna be fine, you're more optimistic, right? You're not set on an end result necessarily, and if it's not fine or a yes, it gives you that opportunity to create something new. And do you feel like Dana, I have a question, an actual real question, because I live my life this way, but like, I don't always check in with other people. People coming to you with that open mindset, right? That like, yep, this is gonna be fantastic. Does that then set the tone for you on that conversation? Like you as a person, whether it's personal, professional, whatever it is, does that set the tone for the conversation for you being like, okay, well, this is an opportunity? rather than it being like, this is a conversation. Like, how does that feel on the other side, Dana (07:24) Yeah, and I think it's funny that you asked that question. I agree, it does set the tone and I think though it's harder to see when it's from that mindset. right? Like I think we very easily see when someone negative sets our tone negative, right? But I don't think we always understand that like the initiative and the consciousness that the person that is setting the positive tone is doing. And so I think it's harder to relate to or harder to think that it works because it's very easy to spot it when it's the other way, not necessarily when it is the positive outlook and the positivity that breeds the positive. So I love that you specifically asked that question because I firmly do believe it. I think it's just a The Dental A Team (07:33) Yeah. Dana (08:03) little bit harder to see. The Dental A Team (08:05) Yeah, that was a huge massive point because it's like anything we're always going to remember the negative more than the positive, right? So I always tell teams, well, number one, this rolls into case acceptance as well because if you get a no and you carry it, you're always going to remember that no, you could have 10 yeses today and that one person said no to two fillings. And it's like, oh, I suck, right? But I just sold 10 freaking implants, right? But it's like getting your hair done. And I say, you're walking down the street. walking down the street and you're like, gosh, my hair, it's so good. I got bangs today. And you've got like nine people walk by you. And they're like, dang, I really like your hair today. I really like your hair, right? Nine people tell you, you look amazing. And one person stops you on the street and they say, gosh, I like your hair, but I'm just not sure I would have gone with bangs. When you get home or when you get into your car, what are you doing? You're looking in the mirror and you're second guessing your choice on bangs. You're not saying, Nine people and myself love my hair right now. You're saying one person's second guest bangs. Why did I do this? Should I have done this? And I think that's exactly what you just said too, Dana. It's really easy to be like, gosh, they just like came in so aggressive and just totally changed my mood. This person put me in a bad mood. One of my least favorite statements of all time. I get to choose the mood I'm gonna be in. That's my power and my control. ain't nobody taking that away from me. But we say that, right? Like this person just totally changed the mood, but it's not always noticeable when someone comes in with a positive, right, or an open mind and they change that or they keep the mood that you've been in. You're totally right. It's not always noticeable, but it makes a huge impact. So your patients may not notice that you're like, hey, let's go. They may not notice that they're like, yeah, like let's figure this out instead of being in like a gosh, Dana (09:49) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (09:59) treatment mood. So huge point there, Dana. I love that you pointed that out because going into it with that mindset, you're not going to reap 100 % of the accolades and the rewards. They're not going to be like, thanks so much for being so positive all the time. You might get that every now and again, but we're looking for that feedback and we're not always getting it. So then we get worn down and we're like, why even try? When you're tracking your results, you're going to know why you try. when you're tracking those yeses, when you're just tracking the conversations even, like you're not always gonna get a yes, that's okay. And that's what we're here about today is those objections. When you go in with that yes mindset of like, I can do anything. It's not always this person's gonna say yes to this treatment. It's this person is gonna say yes to their health and we're gonna get them there. So I go in thinking, this is a huge opportunity to learn more about this patient and to get them healthier. I don't always go into it, which I think is a mindset shift, Dana, for the healthcare field in general. We think like, I'm selling treatment. You are selling treatment, but you're selling someone their health back, right? So I'm selling you back your health. You are unhealthy. You came to me with a deficit, and I'm selling you back your health, right? And so when we put it in that perspective, we put in the perspective of learning and opportunity, it shifts the mindset quite a bit. So. That was a fun tangent. Thank you everyone for following along with us. I hope you gleaned some opportunities there and some mindset shifts. I think it's huge. Now, Dana, when they do come in, they're like, okay, we've got this, we've got this. And then they're like, I'm just not ready. Like, what do you, you train a lot of systems, you train a lot of communication and a lot of ⁓ verbiage, that people like to call it scripts, right? What do you tell your teams is the best path to take? when you do get an objection. Dana (11:54) Yeah, I think that I think first of all, Mr. Preface that right. I always try to teach teams that anything outside of a yes is a no. Right. So but there are no's that are true no's and then there are solvable no's. And so it's it really helps teams to kind of know the difference. Like a true no would be I'm leaving tomorrow to go out of town for three months and like I truly cannot do the treatment. Right. Or ⁓ I just bought a new house and haven't paid my first mortgage payment. Like I want to wait until I make that that's a true no, right? Or there's then they're solvable knows which are, you know, gosh, I don't know if I'm ready or I need to talk to a spouse or ⁓ that's a lot, you know, that's a lot financially or all of those are solvable knows and usually the easiest way to solve them is to ask better questions to find out what is the actual barrier, right? Because driven coordinators, we teach them a lot, you've got a lot of tools, you've got a lot of things that you can offer patients. ⁓ But what I want you to do is hone in on what to offer instead of throwing the book at them, right? Like, well, here are all of my solutions and now you choose. Well, they don't actually know what those choices mean, or they don't actually know what to pick in those choices. So I think it's asking questions to get down to the bottom of The Dental A Team (12:56) Yes. Dana (13:09) what is holding the patient back so that you can provide the right solution for that patient. The Dental A Team (13:15) Yes, I totally agree. You made me think of ⁓ the game Guess Who? Do you remember that game? When we were little? I think it's back around again and they have way cooler pictures, by the way. Ours were like, ours were bad when it was like trending back when we were kids. Anyways, Guess Who is the game where you flip your board up and you've got all the pictures of the different characters and you're one of the characters on the other person's board. You've got your little card down here. and that other person is supposed to try to guess which character you are by asking questions. So you say, do you have dark hair? No, okay, great, we'd mark down all the dark hairs. Then we say, do you wear glasses? Yes, okay, so anyone who doesn't have glasses, we mark down those guys, and it leaves you with a couple of options, and you narrow it down until you're so sure you have the answer, and that's what I feel like treatment coordinating is like. You have this massive board. of options, of opportunities, and you're like, okay, great, what do we need to overcome today? And we're narrowing it down until we get to the actual root cause or the root issue that the person's suffering because... I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you. I've seen so many memes recently and I'm like, that is so me, where they're like, if she says she has to check with her husband, I mean, she doesn't wanna go because she ain't gotta check with her husband. Like, that's me. If I'm like, let me check our calendar. I know what our calendar is. And if I'm saying that, I just don't feel comfortable telling you no in the space that we're in. I'm gonna text you because it's less invasive and it's less confrontational. So I'm just gonna text you later. Right? So when they're like, I need to talk to my husband, right? I have had instances, I do have to, I do have to caveat this. I have had instances where that is a hundred percent true, but I've said to them, totally, I completely agree with you and I would never want you to make a decision without consulting your spouse financially. I never support that. Right? I want you guys to be on the same page. What I would suggest is let's set up a consultation where both of you can be here with us or can he come, is he here? Can he come in? because what I'd hate to do is for you to get home and have to try to reiterate everything that I just said today and everything that you learned from the dentist. That's a lot of information for you to carry. It's a heavy weight for you to carry, and I'd love to help support you in that. So is he here? Is she here? Can we get you guys scheduled? Now, I've got a soft no, a soft no because we're not scheduling the treatment yet, which you Dana (15:44) Thank The Dental A Team (15:49) You still can, you can say, let's schedule this for two weeks out, let's get him in before then, right? Let's hold the space, let's get you and your spouse back before that, so let's try for Thursday, whatever. It's a soft no, but I'm still scheduling them for something, and I'm still providing support for my patient, because I want my patient to be healthy. That's all I want. I want my patients to be healthy. And if it means that I have to have an additional conversation with a spouse in order to get that patient healthy, I'm going to do that. I'm 100 % going to do that. So whatever that objection is, it's finding that space around the objection that's providing the ultimate benefit to the patient. So I've even had it, Dana, you said even like vacation. I've had patients, we have snowbirds in Arizona. Super cool. Phoenix gets a ton of snowbirds. We love you all. Sometimes the roads get crazy, you guys. It's fast driving here. You got to keep up. Anyways, we get snowbirds and these snowbirds come. They're like, gosh, well, I'm heading back in two weeks. I'm like, shoot, like I don't have anything in the schedule for two weeks in the next two weeks. Right. So I'm like, hey, let me see what I can do. Let me see what I can move around. Let me see whatever. If I can get them in, I will. Or we've had snowbirds that are like, hey, I'm only gone for three months in the summer. I'll be back. 1st of September, great. Let's schedule you for the second week in September because I want to make sure this is taken care of. And if for some reason something gets worse while you're gone and you've got to see your dentist back home, tell us. We'll take it off the schedule because I just want you to get taken care of. So if you get it done there, let us know. If not, we're going to put you down for the second week in September because I just want to make sure that they're investing in their health. to the best of their own capabilities. And I have the tools for them to do that. Something I talked with a client about last week, was not everybody knows. Patients don't know to ask the questions they don't know. And I was in office with a practice last week, and we were talking about ⁓ educational overload and confusion. And we often over talk because we're trying to educate past objections we think people might have. And in response to that, we can create decision paralysis and just educational confusion. And something that I said was, if you're giving them this much information, like there's so much information, sometimes they don't know what questions to ask to gain clarity. And so Dana, to your point, us asking them questions will bring that out. Dana with that said, what kind of questions do you train teams to be able to ask either chair side or at treatment coordinating upfront? Dana (18:49) Yeah, so I think that it comes down to just like, ⁓ Asking questions to understand is it is it a like do you understand the actual treatment right? Like do you understand what a crown is? Do you understand? ⁓ Do you remember what the doctor said as far as why you need the treatment? Do you know what will happen if we do nothing right because I think some of the times it is like they may understand the treatment They may know what a crown is they may remember why but they they struggle with How do I put they struggle with like, where do I prioritize this? Right? And so if I've got an AC repair, right? Well, it's 110 degrees out in Arizona. And if I don't have AC, right, like, so where do they put it in their priority list of things to get done? So sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, what other big things do you have coming up? Right? Because you may be able to help them with that priority. The Dental A Team (19:29) Yeah. Dana (19:50) Like, the doctor review with you, if we do nothing, what's going to happen, right? Do you understand the risk of like not doing this treatment, where that puts you? So I think it's just figuring out what part of it they don't understand. Is it the actual treatment? Is it the reason for the treatment? Or is it that they don't know how to prioritize it in all the things because life is busy, right? And things are happening and there's other expenses elsewhere. And so how can you help them prioritize where to put that? The Dental A Team (20:11) Yeah. Dana (20:19) in all of the other noise that they have going on in their lives. The Dental A Team (20:22) Yeah, and to that point of prioritization, Dana, in addition to that, I think a lot of treatment plans are delivered with this is everything you need, okay, goodbye. And there's no prioritization put on the treatment that is next, the next visit. And I had a doctor recently tell me, well, like, it's their mouth. And I said, you are the only person that can make this decision with and for them. You have to tell them what the most important next step is, even if it's like, All of this is about the same. Where I would start is upper right. I don't know, what's the easiest, what's the hardest? What do you want to start with when you don't know the priority? The issue is that patients don't know a lot about dentistry. Most patients don't know a lot about dentistry. So when you leave it up to them, they're making a decision based on not a lot of knowledge. You have all the tools under your belt. prioritize the treatment that needs to be done and then help and assist your patient in prioritizing getting that treatment done. I love it. So I would say in an effort to overcome objections, first and foremost, be open-minded. Go into it as a conversation, go into it as an opportunity, and make sure that your mindset is set. If you just got off of a really hard call, if you just had a patient berate you, if you just walked down the street and someone yelled at you, I want you to be like, okay, how can I shift my mindset right now? And then ask all of the questions. What questions can you ask that help prioritize your patient's treatment? So you place the priority, go in with an open mindset, you tell them what's next, what do they need to do next, and then help ask all of those questions. You guys just get them over the hurdle. Do not assume what their hurdle is. because you can implant an idea and make yourself some big problems there, ask the questions. I love it. I usually say, Dana, be in the why, or be in the what. Be in the question. You guys, if you go into any conversation open-minded, meaning leaving room to ask for more information, whatever that conversation is just became tenfold easier. go do the things, you guys. Dana, we got to put rim to rim. You can do the extra rim if you want. I'm doing two. We gotta put it on our calendar, rim to rim. You can all wait for you at the other side and pick you back up if you're doing that extra rim. But we gotta put that on our calendars. And Dana, thank you for podcasting with me today. I love our time together. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. As always, write in at Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and let us know what you think. Thanks so much, everyone.
Al and Kevin talk about Tiny Garden Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:25: Anti Relationship Drama Rant 00:05:34: Actual Intro 00:06:56: What Has Kevin Been Up To 00:16:46: Anti Capitalist Rant 00:30:31: What Has Al Been Up To 00:42:44: Game News 01:03:41: Tiny Garden 01:18:27: Outro Links Len’s Island 1.0 Update Sun Haven 2.5 Update Moonstone Island “Evolutions” Update Disney Dreamlight Valley “Mysteries of Skull Rock” Update Snacko 1.0.1 Update Fantasy Life i: The Girl Who Steals Time “Roguelike” Update Harvest Moon: Home Sweet Home coming to Steam/Consoles Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al. (0:00:35) Kev: My name is Kevin last I’ve been told (0:00:37) Al: And we’re here, and we’re here today to talk about Cottagecore Games. (0:00:42) Kev: Cottage core games whoo (0:00:45) Al: Oh, (0:00:48) Al: oh, we are here. (0:00:51) Al: We’re going to talk about when we are here, I’m alive. (0:00:54) Kev: No (0:00:54) Al: So if I sound tired, this episode is because I’ve had a very busy Saturday. (0:00:58) Al: We were meant to record on Sunday, (0:01:00) Al: to schedule a meeting with me on a Sunday instead. (0:01:04) Al: So I’m doing that. It’s not a work thing. (0:01:06) Al: Don’t worry, I’m not doing work at the weekend. (0:01:08) Al: But it wasn’t really a meeting I could get out of. (0:01:11) Al: So we rescheduled to Saturday, the day that I have all of the family stuff. (0:01:15) Al: So much stuff, way too much stuff. (0:01:15) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:01:17) Al: So I am here and I’m alive. (0:01:18) Kev: Now he’s getting his performance review from his family tomorrow, that’s the me (0:01:26) Al: I saw I saw a TikTok of a couple who do like weekly. (0:01:30) Al: Weekly Relationship Review and people like people got so annoyed about it and I’m like, I don’t understand why you’re annoyed about this. (0:01:38) Al: It’s not they’re not like judging each other and giving each other a right, a raise. (0:01:44) Al: They’re they’re discussing the things that they’re they’ve done and they’re discussing what they’ve got coming up this week and they’re seeing if there’s anything they need to plan and talk about. (0:01:44) Kev: - Yeah. (0:01:52) Al: This is a very good thing to do. (0:01:54) Al: And I think a lot I think the world will be a lot a better place if a lot more people who were in relationships did. (0:02:00) Al: This but I know most people who are in relationships don’t even want to be in those relationships. (0:02:02) Kev: - Yeah. (0:02:05) Al: Miserable people, measurable people who just want to mock somebody and I think the world would be a better place without those relationships. (0:02:15) Al: So but but hey, I actually love my wife. (0:02:16) Kev: Ohhh, goodness. (0:02:18) Al: So sue me. (0:02:22) Kev: I’ll come out guns blazing this episode, um… (0:02:25) Al: I just I get so annoyed with the boomer joke of like all my ball and chain. (0:02:30) Al: My wife is like, OK, like leave them then. (0:02:32) Kev: Yeah, it (0:02:37) Kev: Yeah, yeah (0:02:37) Al: I just I show and why are you staying there? (0:02:40) Al: I mean, this is why your kids are terrible people, because you they don’t know what a family looks like, because you’re just going to hate your your partner and resent them for it and then take it out on your children. (0:02:53) Kev: Yeah, it’s it’s fascinating. Well, I mean obviously one the you know that attitude mentality has somewhat shifted to a degree (0:03:04) Kev: but it’s fascinating just (0:03:06) Kev: To you know, there’s been studies done and whatever I’ve read some stuff like because you know back in the day (0:03:12) Kev: You your dating pool was limited to pretty much whoever was in the neighborhood, right? (0:03:14) Al: Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Least objection will prepare us on my street. (0:03:19) Kev: Right (0:03:21) Kev: Yep, right, so you know (0:03:23) Kev: That kind of environment leads to the ball and chain mentality, right? (0:03:29) Kev: But you know current day and age with the online and the you know, generally easier ish travel (0:03:39) Kev: Obviously that’s no longer the case (0:03:42) Al: Also, you can be single, right? Like, I’m not saying it’s easy, right? Like, as someone who has (0:03:45) Kev: You can’t sure (0:03:48) Kev: Yeah (0:03:49) Al: basically never been single, right? Like, I got married when I was 22, like, I, you know, (0:03:51) Kev: Uh-huh (0:03:56) Al: been with, well, first got together with my wife when I was 16, right? So, like, I am not a single (0:04:02) Al: person. I have very rarely been a single person, but you can do that. That’s the thing you can do. (0:04:08) Kev: You, you can. Yeah. (0:04:09) Al: Like, if you hate someone, you don’t have to- (0:04:11) Kev: You can. (0:04:12) Al: you don’t have to spend your time with them! You can just not, and you can have friends instead. (0:04:14) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. (0:04:16) Al: And I suspect, if there were more people who didn’t stay in loveless marriages, (0:04:21) Al: then maybe being single would be less terrible as well, because there would be more single people. (0:04:24) Kev: Yeah, yeah, well again, you know the culture back then very different right like marriage was (0:04:25) Al: Crazy idea. (0:04:32) Al: Yeah, but it’s not a solved problem. There are still a lot of miserable people, (0:04:35) Kev: It is not you’re right you’re (0:04:36) Al: and there’s a lot of people who think that marriage is just one of the things you have to do. (0:04:40) Kev: Yeah, you know you’re right that pressure is absolutely still there um yeah (0:04:46) Al: Quite often external to the person who’s being pressured into it, I suspect. (0:04:49) Kev: Absolutely absolutely (0:04:55) Al: Friendships are important, and we need to have friendships and not assume that the only (0:04:59) Al: relationship that matters is a romantic one. There we go, I’m done. (0:05:02) Al: One name. (0:05:02) Kev: Okay, well, you know, yes, these are true. You’re saying things that are true and not particularly objectionable, but you know, you’re, you’re arguing against the hundreds of years of weird cultural nonsense so yeah, yeah, so. (0:05:17) Al: Well, there is that. (0:05:20) Al: Listeners, listeners object to it. (0:05:22) Al: I want to see your arguments for why everyone should get married. (0:05:26) Al: I will vehemently disagree with them because they’re stupid, (0:05:27) Al: and you probably don’t believe them. (0:05:29) Al: But give me them anyway. (0:05:30) Al: It’ll be fun to have an argument. (0:05:32) Kev: That’s what we do on this show. We argue against. (0:05:35) Al: We’re going to talk about Tiny Garden this episode. (0:05:37) Al: So this is the… (0:05:37) Kev: I thought we were here to delve into culturally in a relationship mechanics. (0:05:43) Al: It’s a relationship episode. (0:05:45) Al: Kevin, tell me about like. (0:05:47) Al: Tell me about your relationships, and no don’t I don’t I don’t think I don’t think the pod needs to hear them (0:05:49) Kev: Oh, yeah, I mean, that’s it. Well, romantic ones, that’s easy. They don’t exist. Otherwise, well, that’s, that’s, yeah, okay. (0:06:03) Kev: Okay, moving on, um. (0:06:04) Al: I don’t think I don’t think the podcast needs to hear your therapy. (0:06:08) Kev: Yeah, no, that that is little of my therapist is for him. Okay, I love my family but good heavens I can’t live with them can’t live without them sort of deal. (0:06:19) Kev: Yeah. (0:06:19) Al: Can’t live with them, have to live with them. (0:06:21) Kev: Yeah. (0:06:22) Al: We are going to talk about Tiny Garden. (0:06:24) Al: It is the Polly Pocket farming game. (0:06:26) Kev: Yep. (0:06:28) Al: Kevin has not played it, he thought about playing it and never did. (0:06:31) Al: I have played it a little bit. (0:06:34) Al: And so it’s going to be a reasonably… (0:06:36) Al: Kevin watched some videos. (0:06:37) Al: You watched some videos, right? (0:06:38) Kev: Yeah, yeah, I mean it’s not like it’s a particularly in-depth game, right like yeah, so even (0:06:43) Al: No, no, let’s start. (0:06:44) Al: Well, let’s save that. (0:06:45) Al: Save that for the, save that for the, save it for the pod. (0:06:46) Kev: Okay. All right. Well, okay (0:06:48) Al: We’re already in the pod. (0:06:49) Al: Save it for the appropriate section, Kevin. (0:06:52) Al: Before that, we have a bunch of news. (0:06:54) Al: This has been a reasonably busy Newsweek. (0:06:56) Al: But first of all, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:06:59) Kev: Okay, not a lot of work as I tend to do because I’m I don’t know work (0:07:07) Kev: but (0:07:08) Kev: aside from that, let’s see here um okay you know i’m gonna take a brief second to (0:07:14) Kev: talk about zone the zone zero my segment for nobody but me um so the 2.0 update came out (0:07:16) Al: Go for it. (0:07:20) Kev: I didn’t have internet when it did but I have internet again i’ve caught up i’ve done the 2.0 (0:07:25) Kev: stuff and you know it’s added a lot of stuff that anyone who plays the game might be interested but (0:07:31) Kev: for people who don’t it did i’d be talking nonsense the the big thing I think is interesting (0:07:36) Kev: is kind of the tonal shift. (0:07:38) Kev: So Zenless Zone Zero, the 1.0, the chapter 1, whatever, the first year of the game, (0:07:46) Kev: it was the aesthetic, the tone of it was very, it’s going to sound very like 2000, like (0:07:55) Kev: OTS, you know, that decade specifically. (0:07:59) Kev: People have flip phones and they’re still like CRTs and stuff like that. (0:08:04) Kev: And it’s very sci-fi heavy. (0:08:08) Kev: The main characters are hackers. (0:08:11) Kev: And there’s these like monsters that spawn out of fake matter called the ether or whatever. (0:08:19) Kev: Anyways, the point is it’s very sci-fi heavy. (0:08:21) Kev: That’s the tone and not like super futurama or Jetsons futuristic sci-fi, just like current, (0:08:30) Kev: you know, more current day looking tech. (0:08:34) Kev: But that’s the tone. (0:08:35) Kev: I’m just comparing it to like Genshin is much more fantasy based. (0:08:38) Kev: I’m just painting the picture because they shifted the tone in 2.0, the protagonists join a temple of monks like you know like, sort of a, gosh I wish I had the proper names, (0:09:05) Kev: But you know the stereotypical like (0:09:08) Kev: Temple out in the mountains where monks are trading wonder martial arts and mysticism and that sort of thing (0:09:15) Kev: And so that’s that’s kind of the direction they’re going with (0:09:20) Kev: There’s a new like city area that you’re spending your time in. It’s very much based off (0:09:26) Kev: that kind of (0:09:28) Kev: Not so rural Japan China, but like out in the mountains sort of area (0:09:34) Kev: So it’s a very different feeling from the (0:09:38) Kev: Bay City, which is very like (0:09:42) Kev: Metropolitan lots of big buildings and skyscrapers and whatever that that one feels more like I don’t know Beijing (0:09:49) Kev: I guess you know very modern type China and this one is a more this new area. This new tone is much more traditional (0:09:57) Kev: Chinese (0:09:59) Kev: And you know, it’s it’s it’s fun. I’ll nothing’s nearly wrong (0:10:03) Kev: It’s just I don’t feel so different because the whole first year of the game (0:10:07) Kev: your your tacker person. (0:10:08) Kev: and you you you do hacker things and now you’re training to be a mystic very very odd to me at least but but but anyways regardless the game is still fun I’m still playing it yada yada so that’s that let’s see what else Pokemon unite all Kremie came out all Kremie is great it’s a supporter it does all the things you’d want it to do it it decorates and heals your team it’s unite it creates (0:10:28) Al: - Ah, nice. (0:10:30) Al: - Ow, creamy. (0:10:38) Kev: it’s a giant cake and stands on top of it and it just spreads globs of healing whipped cream to all your teammates I like all Kremie it’s very fun I mean I like all Kremie the Pokemon period and it’s great and unite so yay all Kremie um let’s see other than that uh oh you know I’m gonna take a second here to talk about card games okay so (0:11:08) Kev: you probably don’t keep up with magic the gathering years have you heard anything about magic the gathering recently mm-hmm okay okay okay yeah yeah yeah (0:11:12) Al: I used to play a lot of magic when I worked in an office because there was a magic (0:11:19) Al: league there, but I’ve not kept up basically since 2019. I’m aware that there’s been a lot of (0:11:28) Al: crossover sets recently. There was a Doctor Who one, I believe, A Lord of the Rings one, (0:11:32) Al: a Final Fantasy one, so I’m aware that they’re doing a lot of crossovers just now and there are (0:11:38) Al: many opinions about that shall we see. (0:11:38) Kev: y’all (0:11:40) Kev: there are many opinions. So the Final Fantasy one came out a week ago, I think, the Final (0:11:42) Al: Right, yeah. (0:11:46) Kev: Fantasy crossover set. And this one is a particularly contentious set for two reasons. One, it is (0:11:55) Kev: what they call a standard set, meaning that it is in the card pool. In previous crossovers (0:12:03) Kev: sets, they would kind of, you know, they wouldn’t be standard legal or tournament legal or whatever, (0:12:08) Kev: You know, they’d be kind of more for funs easy. (0:12:08) Al: Oh, interesting. Okay. (0:12:10) Kev: Or, you know, just for between friends or whatever, right? (0:12:12) Kev: This one is in, in your face, like in the card pool. (0:12:17) Kev: And a lot of people aren’t happy about it because there’s the (0:12:19) Kev: crossovers have been so prevalent lately. (0:12:22) Kev: Um, but you know, that that’s, that’s one discussion. (0:12:26) Kev: The other issue that isn’t less of opinions and more just like out cry (0:12:32) Kev: outrage, um, is the insane pricing. (0:12:37) Kev: uh… because magic the gathering has gone through the roof (0:12:40) Kev: in terms of cost (0:12:41) Kev: uh… (0:12:43) Kev: so okay you know here out for comparison (0:12:46) Kev: uh… any other game pokemon yugioh (0:12:49) Kev: work on a whatever (0:12:51) Kev: a pre-constructed deck they go out to the store and buy off the shelf (0:12:55) Kev: can be let’s say fifteen dollars on average us_d (0:12:57) Al: Mm-hmm, yep, yep. (0:12:58) Kev: okay (0:12:59) Kev: uh… it is what it is just maybe (0:13:00) Al: Science, science fair, science fair. (0:13:02) Kev: yeah right it’s it’s it’s fine (0:13:04) Kev: you know dig to get you started to a product that you can actually start (0:13:08) Kev: start playing the game, right? (0:13:10) Kev: In Magic the Gathering, so they come out with commander decks, you know, there’s different formats and command is the popular one (0:13:18) Kev: That’s that’s their primary like pre-constructed deck thing that comes out (0:13:25) Kev: Right now they came out or it was just last year they had updated the MSRP to be about you believe (0:13:32) Kev: $45 (0:13:34) Al: Oh, for a… because a commander’s 40 cards, is that right? Oh, a hundred, right? Okay, sorry. (0:13:35) Kev: USD (0:13:40) Kev: To be fair it is it is a bigger deck right, but it’s in my opinions (0:13:42) Al: My bad. A hundred cards for for $45, that’s wild. (0:13:46) Kev: You know (0:13:47) Kev: It’s pricey. It’s it’s very pricey, right? (0:13:51) Kev: I’m just you know, I think that illustrates the scale of like how much magic costs now, right? Okay (0:13:57) Kev: Final fantasy set because they know final fantasy is popular people (0:14:02) Kev: They know a Hasbro Hasbro is the the current owner of the magic franchise and makes these pricing decisions (0:14:10) Kev: They know people are gonna be excited. They marked up the MSRP for the Final Fantasy set (0:14:19) Kev: The a (0:14:21) Kev: Commander pre-con for Final Fantasy is I believe 70 USD MSRP (0:14:28) Kev: I’d say that because a lot of (0:14:30) Kev: You know, it’s a lot of local card games and shops that will run carry these products (0:14:36) Kev: they will mark up their products anyways even if there is an MSR (0:14:40) Kev: so you know these things are going through the roof like over $100 and (0:14:45) Kev: whatnot and so it’s insanity and that’s not even the premium they came out with (0:14:51) Kev: these premium versions of these decks where like the everything’s foil or (0:14:54) Kev: whatever those are 125 MSRP I think something ridiculous so so obviously you (0:15:04) Al: Hmm. Yeah. (0:15:08) Kev: You know, they are just… (0:15:10) Kev: They are just robbing the customers blind, and obviously people aren’t happy, but they are still selling like hotcakes because I don’t know, that’s the magic of players I guess. (0:15:20) Kev: As I’ve been on record, I have dabbled in magic, but I’m not very keen on those prices, so I don’t pick up a lot. (0:15:28) Kev: But, I do like Final Fantasy, and here’s the kicker, right, if the cards suck, that’d be easier just to not play, but a lot of the cards are good looking, or they look fun to play or whatever. (0:15:40) Kev: So, the temptation is there. (0:15:42) Kev: So, what I did is instead of buying any Final Fantasy stuff for magic, I went back to the actual Final Fantasy trading card game, which I need to remind people actually exists. (0:15:54) Kev: It’s still going, it’s still coming out with stuff. (0:15:56) Kev: So yeah, I did a game night with some friends, and we played out of not wanting to spend money, we dusted off some Final Fantasy decks, and that’s it. (0:16:10) Kev: That was fun. And man, the Final Fantasy TCG, it’s pretty good. (0:16:14) Kev: I like the rhythm of the game, it’s not insane or busted right now. (0:16:18) Kev: And the cards, it’s a very weird thing, but the card stock, they’re very thick and durable, it’s not a flimsy paper cardboard thing. (0:16:26) Kev: It’s very nice, it feels almost plastic-y. (0:16:30) Kev: But anyways, yeah, I picked up and played some Final Fantasy TCG, that’s fun stuff, just because magic’s insane. (0:16:40) Kev: I’m not gonna do that again right now. (0:16:42) Kev: But that that’s that’s all I’ve been going on not not too terribly much. What about you l what you’ve been up to? (0:16:46) Al: Well I want to go on an anti-capitalist rant first. So your comments about them, you know, (0:16:49) Kev: I mean as we do (0:16:56) Al: marking up the stuff, it reminds me of a thing I’ve been annoyed about recently, where people (0:17:04) Al: will go “oh everything’s expensive” and then other people go “oh that’s just supply and demand” (0:17:09) Al: as if supply and demand is like some inherent law of physics that means that (0:17:16) Al: the price is out of our hands. The demand is high therefore the price must be high. (0:17:23) Al: Yeah that’s not how that works. It’s not like the price is determined by, you know, (0:17:29) Al: what a seller wants to sell for it and what a buyer wants to buy for it and meeting somewhere (0:17:32) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:17:34) Kev: Right. (0:17:36) Al: where, you know, if they try and put it too high then people won’t buy it blah blah blah etc etc. (0:17:40) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:17:41) Al: And supply and demand just says that as demand, as supply increases… (0:17:47) Al: and demand decreases, no, is that what I said? There’s a point in the middle where they meet (0:17:53) Al: and you’ve got like a ideal price, if you will, based on the amount of supply and the amount of (0:17:53) Kev: Yes (0:17:57) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:17:59) Al: demand. And all really supply and demand means is that if there’s a high demand and a low supply, (0:18:05) Al: they can charge basically whatever they want, right? Like that is how it’s not like the price (0:18:12) Al: has to be sold for a certain point, right? Like they just go, we know people are (0:18:16) Al: going to buy it, therefore supply and demand says we can charge more, and we’ll get more money. (0:18:22) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:18:23) Al: Right? Like that is just how it works. And I just, it gets really frustrating when people are like, (0:18:27) Al: “Oh, it’s just supply and demand.” As if, “Oh, don’t look at me. I’m not the one deciding the (0:18:32) Al: price. Supply and demand is deciding the price.” What are you talking about? That’s not how this (0:18:38) Al: works, right? Like we decide prices, and if people think it’s too high, and they don’t buy it like (0:18:45) Al: you have done. (0:18:46) Al: enough people did what you were doing, they would have to decrease the price to sell (0:18:48) Kev: Yeah. Well. (0:18:50) Al: it. (0:18:51) Al: But of course, we are willing to spend the money. (0:18:54) Al: Enough people are willing to spend the money that they can just sell it for whatever they (0:18:58) Al: want and people will keep going up. (0:19:01) Al: You know, it’s like how, it’s the reason the Mario Kart world is $80. (0:19:07) Al: It’s because they know people will buy it and supply and demand for the record makes (0:19:11) Al: no sense in our digital economy, right? (0:19:15) Al: like there is no there is no (0:19:15) Kev: Yeah, and it is. (0:19:16) Al: it’s infinite supply so theoretically supply and demand should say that if (0:19:21) Al: there’s infinite supply there should be a very very low price it just like that (0:19:26) Kev: Yeah well, well, yeah (0:19:28) Al: is but no that’s not how it actually works because that’s the price is based (0:19:33) Al: on what people are actually willing to pay but that’s if you if you took purely (0:19:35) Kev: Yes, yeah (0:19:38) Al: supply and demand and nothing else and said this is what this means digital (0:19:42) Al: games should be free. (0:19:43) Kev: Well, that’s it. Well, here’s the thing, right? Okay, as I’m sure you can, I’ve only took like two economics class. I do a little economics though, but here’s the thing, right? Supply into it. That is, what is supply? You want to dive into that? That’s what determines supply. Now we’re getting into something, right? (0:19:58) Al: All right, yeah, okay, fair enough. Fair enough. I guess like the supply for a digital game (0:20:06) Al: is the number of consoles that are, right? Like you’re not going to… (0:20:08) Kev: Yeah, or, or, right, it’s, yeah, and, and in terms of the price. (0:20:13) Kev: Right, like the, you know, that, what did you see in economics? (0:20:16) Kev: You see the, you see like a graph, right? (0:20:19) Kev: Which is like, I guess number of units and number of, uh, and the price or whatever. (0:20:23) Kev: And so you’re right. (0:20:24) Kev: Um, it, uh, it gets weird digitally, but what determines that graph? (0:20:30) Al: That’s my point. That’s my point is there’s so, there’s so many things that break down. (0:20:31) Kev: Where does, yeah. (0:20:33) Al: It’s not in an, in a, in a, I love the, have you ever had the physics joke, um, which is, uh, Oh, two seconds. (0:20:43) Al: Let me double check so I don’t end up saying it. (0:20:46) Kev: Is it, I mean, I know a couple physics joke as an engineer, nerd, major, degree holder. (0:20:53) Al: So, there was the physics joke, right, where there’s a farmer whose chicken wouldn’t lay (0:20:59) Kev: Uh-huh, yep. (0:20:59) Al: any eggs. And to solve the problem, he hires a physicist. And the physicist says, “Oh, (0:21:06) Al: I’ve come up with a solution, but my solution requires a spherical chicken in a vacuum.” (0:21:08) Kev: Uh-huh. (0:21:12) Al: And the point of that joke is that so many things in physics are theoretical and only (0:21:17) Kev: Yeah, yeah. (0:21:19) Al: work in a very specific set of scenarios. (0:21:23) Al: And you can’t then necessarily say, “This happens here, therefore that happens in (0:21:28) Al: the real world as well.” (0:21:29) Al: And I feel like a lot of economics of that is that as well. (0:21:32) Al: It’s like in this perfect ideal economic world where these 10 things all exist, then this (0:21:36) Kev: Yeah (0:21:39) Kev: No (0:21:39) Al: will happen. (0:21:40) Al: And it’s like, but that’s not how the world works. (0:21:42) Al: And digital games is a perfect example of how that just completely falls on us. (0:21:46) Al: It falls over, right? (0:21:47) Al: Like, because it just, it doesn’t make any sense. (0:21:49) Al: What is supply when you’re talking about a digital thing? (0:21:52) Al: It’s not a thing. (0:21:53) Al: Right? (0:21:54) Al: It doesn’t make any sense. (0:21:54) Kev: Yeah, and and I’m really we yeah, you know we can get down to it really if (0:22:02) Kev: This would be a more interesting conversation if you know, we were looking at just supply factors like okay (0:22:09) Kev: How do you distribute, you know, what are the competition yada yada, whatever, right? (0:22:13) Kev: But we all know the truth in the current day and age late-stage capitalism, whatever you want to call it (0:22:19) Kev: there is a significant portion of that price being determined by (0:22:24) Kev: The shareholders the see the executives. They just want a whole lot of money (0:22:30) Kev: the day (0:22:32) Kev: That’s that’s what it all boils down to oh (0:22:34) Al: Yeah, yeah. (0:22:36) Kev: Man, man. Okay, you know, all right since we’re on this (0:22:40) Kev: The absurdity of economics and and prices I’ll go back. I’ll go right back to magic (0:22:46) Kev: Are you familiar with magic 30? (0:22:48) Al: I am not. Is it a version of Magic where you have 30 cards? (0:22:52) Kev: No (0:22:52) Al: Ah, good guess though, right? (0:22:55) Kev: Yeah, oh that mmm, you know, I actually I think standards 40 so you’re not far off that that would be fun, but um, okay (0:23:05) Kev: Okay, here it is so this was a couple years ago (0:23:11) Kev: Magic the Gathering (0:23:14) Kev: Whatever Hasbro was to the coast whatever they released a project called magic 30 or it’s the med the 30th anniversary edition set (0:23:23) Al: - Ah, okay, yep. (0:23:25) Kev: Okay, this was this was a 2022 that the year was okay (0:23:30) Kev: and so (0:23:32) Kev: it’s it’s probably the most absurd like magic product ever released because (0:23:40) Kev: each box (0:23:41) Kev: This product contained 15 booster packs and these booster packs the cards inside them were like, oh, you know (0:23:48) Kev: Very classic original magic cards or whatever with original art (0:23:53) Kev: So much so that (0:23:55) Kev: It was so faithful to the original stuff that because magic rotates and has you know form different formats (0:24:01) Kev: They actually said okay. None of these cards are actually going to be playable (0:24:06) Kev: They’re just not gonna be legal in anything. It is basically just fake real fake cards that we’re printing. We’re collecting I guess (0:24:16) Kev: Okay (0:24:18) Kev: How how much would you pay for a box of (0:24:23) Kev: 15 packs of fake cards. (0:24:24) Kev: Real fake cards, Al. (0:24:26) Al: I mean it depends what it is, right? Like, so let’s create a scenario where this is Pokémon, (0:24:32) Al: right? It’s essentially just like a collector’s deck that you can never use in tournaments. (0:24:36) Al: I’m not going to use it in tournaments, it doesn’t really affect how much I would pay for it, right? (0:24:40) Al: Like I’m a sucker who will pay stupid amounts of money for collector’s things, (0:24:45) Al: so probably way too much money. I think if we’re… So if we’re just talking a deck, (0:24:48) Kev: Okay, give me (0:24:51) Al: so we’re talking… How many… Was that a 40 pack, a standard set? (0:24:52) Kev: Yeah (0:24:54) Kev: It was 15 packs is what it was here. Yep. No, no (0:24:57) Al: Oh, 15 packs. Oh, it’s not even a deck, right? OK. So let’s go with… (0:25:06) Al: I feel like in the world where this is Pokémon, maybe I’m paying like £5 a pack, (0:25:08) Kev: You know what hope (0:25:14) Al: because that’s more… I think it’s like £3 a pack just now in the UK, (0:25:18) Al: so we’re maybe talking like £75. And that would feel like… That would maybe feel like a lot, (0:25:22) Kev: Okay. (0:25:24) Al: and I’d be like oh I don’t know how (0:25:27) Kev: Okay. (0:25:28) Kev: So let’s see, five pounds, I’ll just forget. (0:25:30) Kev: Okay, that’s about six, seven USD. (0:25:32) Kev: Okay, sure. (0:25:34) Kev: So times 15, that’s, what is that? (0:25:36) Kev: 50 plus 25, that’s 75. (0:25:38) Kev: Okay, so that’s 75 pounds, (0:25:40) Kev: which yeah, about 100 USD maybe. (0:25:42) Kev: Okay, okay, I see what you’re saying, right? (0:25:45) Al: But like, that’s not “I’m definitely going to buy that.” (0:25:47) Al: That’s “Ooh, that feels like a lot. (0:25:50) Kev: Yeah, sure, sure, sure. (0:25:50) Al: Maybe I would buy it if it was something I really wanted.” (0:25:52) Kev: Right. (0:25:53) Kev: Yeah, okay, that’s the crazy price. (0:25:55) Kev: And then that’s good, okay. (0:25:57) Kev: Yeah, okay, I understand. (0:25:58) Kev: You know what, I can see that. (0:26:01) Kev: Yeah, you know what? (0:26:02) Kev: I could agree with that price, right? (0:26:04) Kev: For the hardcore collector who really wants the thing. (0:26:07) Kev: Yeah, you know what, I could say that. (0:26:09) Kev: All right, now, what if I told you the price (0:26:12) Kev: of this magic product was 10 times what you just told me? (0:26:16) Al: What? Ten times. So what? A thousand? A thousand dollars. That is… (0:26:20) Kev: 10 times. (0:26:22) Kev: USD. Yup, 999 technically. laughs (0:26:28) Al: I mean, OK, right. So we laugh at that, but Pokemon basically did that, right? With their… (0:26:33) Al: They had a collector’s box, limited edition, and it was several hundred dollars. I can’t even remember (0:26:40) Kev: - Sure, wasn’t four digits. (0:26:41) Al: it was. But like, I mean, that was more than that was, I wasn’t four digits, it was. (0:26:46) Al: Three digits, but I feel like it was not far off it, and it did include, it did include, (0:26:50) Al: like, you know, very nice dice and card sleeves and stuff like that. I can’t remember how (0:26:54) Kev: oh yes you know if you get a nice uh is it like the charizard premium collection is that the one (0:26:55) Al: much it was. Do you know the box I’m talking about? No, no, no, I’m talking about there (0:27:00) Kev: you’re talking or is it a different one oh oh the the one yes the really nice one that they (0:27:02) Al: was like an. Yes, the like all black one, I can’t remember what it was called. (0:27:06) Kev: did in a direct yes yes I remember that yes yeah yeah to be fair like didn’t that have like a full (0:27:13) Kev: set of cards or whatever like it wasn’t just packs even right like it was like designed as a game (0:27:19) Kev: almost right that you could play with someone um oh gosh the (0:27:21) Al: Yes. Yes. Oh, there we go. It’s the class. I think it’s the classic box set. Yes, it (0:27:25) Kev: classic yeah black something like that I can’t remember um (0:27:30) Al: was a full set. You could play a full game and it looks like it’s brand new here. It’s (0:27:32) Kev: yeah yeah yeah pokum (0:27:35) Al: £400. So quite a lot. So that’s maybe what? $500. And we’re talking and presumably the (0:27:37) Kev: yep yeah yeah yeah okay (0:27:45) Al: packs were just the packs. There wasn’t anything else with them. (0:27:50) Kev: Yeah, okay. I’m looking on Pokemon Center. It says 400 USD, I think (0:27:52) Al: Yeah. Okay. And it was like recreations of the original cards and it was like full on (0:27:55) Kev: But regardless at least it was a full dang set. They could play with you know people, right? (0:28:02) Kev: Yeah, yeah (0:28:03) Al: nostalgia, but it was a full set. You could sit down with just this box and play an entire (0:28:09) Kev: Yeah, you could play different games and stuff right at least it’s that right this was literally (0:28:15) Kev: MT the MTG 3 was literally 15 packs. That’s all it was (0:28:19) Al: That’s wild, so we’re talking more than twice the price of this, (0:28:24) Al: and it doesn’t include any of the extra stuff. It’s just 50. (0:28:24) Kev: Yep (0:28:26) Kev: Nope not even I mean, I mean maybe you could make a deck it wouldn’t work probably but you know like (0:28:33) Kev: You can’t you can’t play you can’t open this and play again with friends. I don’t think unless you’re just making up (0:28:34) Al: And this box is insanely expensive, this Pokémon one. (0:28:41) Kev: Yeah, yeah it is (0:28:42) Al: You know, for what it is, of course it’s sold out, because everything Pokémon sells out. (0:28:46) Al: But yeah, wow, that’s mad. (0:28:48) Kev: Yeah, I know yeah, that’s yep, that’s wild um oh wow actually I’m looking online you can buy (0:28:56) Kev: There’s one here on TZG player for like 250 is that right huh anyways, but still yeah (0:29:02) Al: Still, still too much money. (0:29:04) Kev: Yeah, no, that’s a lot. Don’t get me wrong, but I just (0:29:07) Al: And that’s a quarter of the price of 15 packs of this magic one. Mad. That’s, that is wild. (0:29:09) Kev: Yeah (0:29:12) Kev: Magic 30th (0:29:14) Kev: Good times (0:29:15) Al: All right. Are we done with the anti-capitalist rants? Capitalism is bad. We hate it. (0:29:16) Kev: so yeah (0:29:17) Kev: So (0:29:20) Kev: We’re done (0:29:22) Al: Don’t, don’t abuse supplying to man to rip people off just because you can. (0:29:24) Kev: Hasbro is bad (0:29:28) Kev: I will say this (0:29:30) Kev: So about Magic 30th (0:29:34) Kev: They were going to have a limited run or whatever (0:29:38) Kev: Oh, there’s going to be X number of boxes produced or whatever (0:29:42) Kev: And so, you know, it was a big deal (0:29:44) Kev: Okay, we’re launching the sale on this time on the website, yada yada (0:29:48) Kev: We got down the sale, I think, after like an hour (0:29:52) Kev: There was no explicit reason given (0:29:54) Kev: But most people assume they didn’t sell a thing (0:29:58) Kev: That’s what I’m thinking (0:30:00) Kev: Or what most people think (0:30:02) Al: That’s crazy. (0:30:02) Kev: Anyways, there you go (0:30:03) Al: It’s a thousand it’s a thousand pounds as well. (0:30:04) Kev: Your fun anecdote in Magic history (0:30:06) Al: I’m looking at it on on the UK site, it’s a thousand pounds. (0:30:06) Kev: Yup, yup (0:30:10) Kev: Oh, goodness (0:30:11) Al: Each display worthy box includes 15 card for 15 card booster packs. (0:30:16) Al: Oh, wait, it’s not 15 packs, it’s four packs. (0:30:18) Kev: Oh, I misread that, it’s four p- (0:30:22) Kev: Oh, yeah (0:30:23) Al: It’s 60, it’s 60 cards. (0:30:24) Kev: 60 cards, oh my gosh (0:30:26) Kev: Oh, that’s incredible (0:30:29) Al: That is so stupid. (0:30:30) Kev: Tell me about your week out (0:30:32) Al: Uh, but I’ve been playing Mario Kart, that’s that’s all I’ve been playing. (0:30:38) Kev: Man (0:30:40) Kev: So you talked about it, I talked about it (0:30:44) Kev: I don’t know if we stressed how good Knockout Tour is (0:30:46) Kev: That’s a good mode. (0:30:47) Al: Yeah, so I’ve been, when we last talked about it, I had not played the knockout tour by that point. (0:30:54) Al: I was going through the Grumprees, three-starring them. I finished the Grumprees, they’re all (0:30:59) Al: three-starred, and I am halfway through the knockout tours, three-starring them. Yeah, (0:31:04) Al: I really like them. I will say, it is a bit frustrating when you go through, because it’s (0:31:10) Al: eight gates, you have to go through with the last one being, that’s your final position unless you (0:31:15) Al: you get an octave before. (0:31:17) Al: And so to get three star in a knockout tour, you have to come first in every single gate, (0:31:24) Al: which is a lot of work. (0:31:27) Al: And I’ve been a couple of times where I’ve gone, yeah, there’s a couple of times where (0:31:31) Al: I have gone, like, it takes a while to get through the first gate, but after you got (0:31:35) Al: the first gate, you can quite often get a lot of gates, right? (0:31:38) Kev: Yeah (0:31:38) Al: There’s one knockout tour that I’m struggling on just now where I sometimes get knocked (0:31:42) Al: out of the third gate, which is very frustrating, but most of them, it’s like, if you get past (0:31:47) Al: that first gate, unless you mock up, you probably can do it reasonably easy, but getting past (0:31:52) Al: that first gate can be difficult. (0:31:55) Al: There’s been multiple times where I’ve gotten first on the first seven gates, and then coming (0:32:00) Al: forth. (0:32:01) Al: And it is so frustrating because like in a grand prix, if you could, I know, but in like (0:32:02) Kev: I mean that’s Mario Kart. Winning is losing. (0:32:06) Al: a grand prix, if you come, if you come first, first, first, fourth, you would get one star, (0:32:12) Al: go you’d win and get a one star. (0:32:14) Al: is if you come first, first, first, first, first, first, (0:32:17) Al: you come fourth. So it’s like, like, I understand that. That’s the point of the race. It just (0:32:24) Kev: - Yep. (0:32:24) Al: makes it really, and it like, it doesn’t really matter because I’m going to play it until I get (0:32:27) Al: three stars, right? But it’s just a little bit frustrating to be like, I was first every time (0:32:32) Al: and then I got knocked. I got hit by just too many shells and now I’m done. What I do really like is, (0:32:38) Kev: Yep (0:32:39) Al: I don’t know if there’s no rubber banding, but there definitely seems to be less rubber banding (0:32:43) Kev: Well that I mean, I think that’s kind of the (0:32:43) Al: in the knockout tour. (0:32:48) Kev: Why it works so well because you’re gonna have less people that you can’t rubber band if there’s only you know (0:32:53) Kev: Now half the contestants or whatever. All right, like instead of rubber band (0:32:55) Al: Well, it’s not, it’s not, yeah, I mean, right from the start though, like if you get out (0:32:59) Al: ahead of the pack really early, you can make a really big lead, which is important to be (0:33:06) Al: able to actually, you know, because you’re going to get hit, right? You can’t keep getting (0:33:09) Kev: Mm hmm. We’re right, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (0:33:10) Al: in horns to not get hit by blue, blue shells, and you can’t get enough stuff. As soon as (0:33:16) Al: someone has like three red shells, you’re dead, right? You can’t protect from that unless (0:33:21) Al: you like get hit by the second one just before you go through another. (0:33:25) Al: So you’re going to get hit, and so you need that good distance to make sure that you (0:33:29) Kev: Yep. Yep. (0:33:35) Kev: Yeah. Mm hmm. (0:33:36) Al: have enough time. But on the other hand, it means that if someone gets ahead quickly, (0:33:40) Kev: Yep. (0:33:41) Al: it’s really hard to catch up with them. (0:33:43) Kev: It is. Um. (0:33:45) Al: Whereas in our Grand Prix, you can like hang back for like two laps and then just smoke everyone. (0:33:50) Kev: I think Bullet Bill or Golden Shroom. (0:33:51) Al: You can’t do that. You cannot do that in a knockout tour. (0:33:54) Kev: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. (0:33:56) Al: But it’s fun. I’m enjoying it. I’m definitely enjoying it. (0:33:58) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. (0:34:00) Al: It definitely feels like what they wanted to do with the Grand Prix, but they didn’t. (0:34:03) Kev: Mm hmm. Yeah. (0:34:03) Al: And so I’m more frustrated now that the Grand Prix have these weird in-between bits. (0:34:09) Kev: That’s the thing. They’re not even in between bits. They’re just part of the race. (0:34:13) Al: Yeah. Yeah. (0:34:13) Kev: Like, that’s the weird part, right? Like, they told us they’re in between, but it’s not. (0:34:17) Kev: Um, that’s the weird part. (0:34:18) Al: It just means that the first lap on your next one is on the previous course. (0:34:25) Al: And then the second lap is like half the previous course and half the new course. (0:34:29) Al: And then you get one lap on the course. It’s just such a weird setup. (0:34:32) Kev: Yeah, and it’s it’s not there’s nothing inherently wrong with it especially since they designed this whole island it makes sense right but it’s still boggles my mind that they didn’t include the classic grand prive you know three laps around a track. (0:34:46) Al: Yeah, that’s the thing. That’s the thing. Anyway, but whatever. I’m still really loving the game. (0:34:48) Kev: Um, yeah. (0:34:50) Kev: Yeah. (0:34:53) Al: It is good fun. I like a lot of the changes they made. It feels, well, that’s the thing. (0:34:54) Kev: Yeah, it’s good it’s it’s Mario Kart shocker. (0:34:58) Al: It feels good because I don’t, there’s not a huge number of kart racers that feel good to race for (0:35:02) Al: me. And that’s a really important thing about Mario Kart. And they’ve, they’ve, they’ve, they (0:35:03) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:35:06) Kev: Yep, that is true (0:35:09) Al: hit it out of the park with that. Like all the changes they made make it feel smoother and feel (0:35:14) Al: nicer, like, you know, what I was talking to you about, like, when (0:35:16) Kev: Yeah (0:35:16) Al: you get hit by cars and stuff like that, it just all feels more fun. (0:35:18) Kev: Yeah (0:35:19) Kev: You’re right (0:35:21) Kev: You’re right. Yeah, I agree. It is it like just (0:35:25) Kev: Mechanically does feel more fluid because you’re right like in the old days when you got hit that was just like a hard stop (0:35:30) Al: Yeah, spin around three times and come to a halt. (0:35:31) Kev: Here you kind of tumble forward a little (0:35:34) Kev: Yeah (0:35:36) Kev: Yeah, I agree. Um, I mean, yeah overall like I agree. It’s it’s it’s good (0:35:42) Kev: I wish we I think it just needs more (0:35:46) Kev: We don’t actually it has a battle mime in try that but we need the three lap (0:35:52) Kev: Classy Grand Prix and we need more to actually do with free range. The free range is kind of nothing right now (0:36:00) Al: Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see if they add more in the future. (0:36:00) Kev: Like you (0:36:02) Kev: Yeah (0:36:03) Al: I don’t know. (0:36:04) Al: We’ll see. (0:36:04) Al: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not like, Oh, they must do it. (0:36:05) Kev: And I (0:36:07) Al: Or it would be a bad game. (0:36:08) Al: Like if it never changes again, I don’t think it’s not worth the money, (0:36:09) Kev: Yeah, oh yeah for sure oh (0:36:12) Al: but I would also like more please. (0:36:13) Kev: Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s (0:36:16) Kev: not a bad game. I need to stress that just, there’s, there’s just potential, you can feel it, (0:36:21) Kev: but you can feel what you can do, right? Like, can you imagine a, you know, I feel like there should (0:36:27) Kev: be modes that use the free range, like, sort of like tag, basically, right? Or, or, you know, (0:36:32) Al: Mmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:36:34) Kev: something like that, something to chase, chase a rabbit or whatever, stuff like that, to give you (0:36:39) Kev: an excuse to run around the island, not just on the tracks. And, you know, that’s kind of what they (0:36:42) Al: Do you know what I hope they do? I really hope that they charged as much as they charged for (0:36:43) Kev: want. You tell. (0:36:48) Al: this game because they intend on not doing paid DLC but what they would do in paid DLC they’re (0:36:56) Al: adding industry updates. That would be really nice and it’s like yeah because then they get (0:36:59) Kev: that would be nice (0:37:01) Kev: I can see it going either way (0:37:03) Al: more money overall if they do that than if they charge less money and then charge the DLC because (0:37:07) Al: not everyone’s going to buy the DLC. But it (0:37:12) Al: would I think it would lead a lot of people to be less frustrated because I think if they add (0:37:17) Al: if they do a DLC and they charge for it people are gonna be like even more money you want even (0:37:18) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:37:21) Kev: Yeah. (0:37:22) Al: more of my money and I think that would be not great and if they added more as free updates I (0:37:27) Kev: Yeah. (0:37:28) Al: think people would go oh okay uh there’ll be people who like this should have been in the beginning (0:37:30) Kev: What? (0:37:33) Al: but I think those people are stupid and that’s not how games work anymore deal with it it’s like (0:37:35) Kev: Yeah. (0:37:38) Kev: Yeah! (0:37:39) Al: it’s like the people who, it’s like the people who talk about (0:37:42) Al: er, so it’s one thing talking about Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and saying this is how the (0:37:46) Kev: Yeah, the game should have worked (0:37:46) Al: games always should have been, right? Like I’m putting that to the side. I’m not, I’m not talking (0:37:50) Al: about those, but I’ve seen people, I have heard people say this is what Breath of the Wild should (0:37:55) Al: have been with the Switch 2 update. And I’m like, no, it’s not. That is, that is an eight year old (0:37:58) Kev: what those people aren’t saying (0:38:02) Al: game. You cannot possibly believe that you think this game should have looked like this eight years (0:38:08) Al: ago. When this game came out, people adored how it (0:38:12) Al: looked amazing. The Switch, it still does. Even if you don’t have the update, it still (0:38:14) Kev: It still does shock her. (0:38:18) Al: looks amazing. It just looks even better if you have the update. It’s absolutely bizarre (0:38:22) Kev: Yeah, eggs (0:38:24) Al: that people are like, “This sort of shows.” But shut up. That is not how this works. That (0:38:28) Kev: Sheets oh (0:38:30) Al: is not how this works. (0:38:30) Kev: That’s insanity (0:38:33) Kev: Well, you know, okay on the topic on the topic of the DLC is it’s interesting because I think if they and I do think they’re (0:38:42) Kev: Gonna support the game because as you said, that’s just how (0:38:45) Kev: Games are now. Um, I think there there has to be free (0:38:52) Kev: because you know (0:38:53) Kev: He they’ve they’ve kind of put them corner themselves because in previous Mario Kart’s DLC is very or you know (0:39:00) Kev: It’s obvious what you do. You add more tricks, right? Here’s your next cup. Here’s you know, daddy out of here’s (0:39:05) Kev: Four cups buy them for ten bucks or whatever here. You can’t do that at least not had a (0:39:10) Kev: that easily right because you (0:39:13) Kev: They’re not gonna jam a new section of the island and gate it off with the DLC (0:39:14) Al: Oh, yeah, good point. (0:39:17) Al: That’s a good point. (0:39:19) Al: We’re going to need another island or the island get expanded or something like that. (0:39:19) Kev: right, so (0:39:22) Kev: Yeah, so (0:39:25) Kev: There’s I think there’s a couple I think there’s a couple things one (0:39:25) Al: Hmm. (0:39:28) Kev: I think we’re gonna see free modes like we’re talking about right like I don’t know what but they’re gonna I think they’re (0:39:31) Al: Yeah. (0:39:32) Kev: Gonna use more of the island because they have the island that would that’s obvious use more use it more, right? (0:39:37) Kev: There might be you know, maybe they will introduce three lap mode and then they can sell DLC tracks (0:39:43) Kev: Just you know your classic. Okay, here’s four tracks (0:39:44) Al: Yeah, so you know what, you’ve made me come to the conclusion. (0:39:49) Al: I think what’s going to happen is there will be those feature updates will be free (0:39:52) Kev: You (0:39:55) Al: and then new tracks will probably be paid. (0:39:55) Kev: Yeah (0:39:58) Al: I suspect that’s what’s going to happen. (0:39:58) Kev: That’s that is what I also suspect I do think yeah, yep, that’s (0:40:01) Al: That is a good point. (0:40:03) Al: Because then they can charge for like a whole other island, right? (0:40:07) Kev: Yep or just tracks if they want to do you know if they go back to three laps, but yeah or just another island yeah (0:40:09) Al: I can’t see. I can’t. I can’t see. (0:40:14) Al: I’m doing that going like the whole point is this America world also here are some (0:40:18) Al: tracks you can only do in if you if you choose them in the menu. (0:40:20) Kev: Yeah, that’s a good point. I guess (0:40:23) Al: Like that feels weird and you go into free room in free room free room and you (0:40:27) Al: choose which island you want to free room on or there’s a bridge between the two (0:40:29) Kev: Yeah (0:40:31) Al: islands or something like that. (0:40:33) Kev: Okay, the bridge might work yeah, but you raise a good point it could be a whole new island I I can see that (0:40:38) Kev: But but overall like yeah, I think we’re in agreement. There’s gonna be some sort of features modes (0:40:43) Kev: Whatever they’re gonna end those are gonna be free. Absolutely (0:40:46) Al: Also, let us free Rome on Rainbow Road, please, and thank you. (0:40:49) Kev: That it (0:40:51) Kev: I (0:40:52) Al: Maybe Rainbow Road is the bridge. (0:40:55) Kev: Hear people talk about that because of course, but there’s a part where you’re literally crashing there (0:40:58) Al: Yeah, I know. (0:41:03) Kev: How you gonna free-rope that (0:41:05) Al: But, I mean, if you fall off, you go back. (0:41:09) Kev: You just okay, all right (0:41:09) Al: You have to go back to the start of it. (0:41:10) Al: There you go. (0:41:12) Al: I can see why it would be annoying, and I know why they haven’t done it, but that doesn’t (0:41:15) Kev: Yeah, okay (0:41:15) Al: mean I don’t want to do it. (0:41:18) Kev: You know (0:41:20) Kev: On the rainbow road like on this in this one (0:41:23) Kev: I there’s points where I think it’s the absolute best rainbow road they’ve ever done and there’s points where it’s the worst one (0:41:32) Kev: Like I think the lot of it is great. It’s fantastic. It’s it’s a it’s a real spectacle this one (0:41:38) Kev: But then there’s points where you’re not actually on the rainbow road. There’s bits where you dip on water and other weird stuff (0:41:45) Kev: I don’t like that, but but that just me (0:41:48) Al: I haven’t done it enough to have a full opinion because I actually got (0:41:53) Al: that Grand Prix I got in on my second try. I got three stars. So I was like, “Oh, oh well.” (0:41:58) Kev: No dang, look at you hotshot. (0:42:01) Al: So it’s the only one. Other ones took me many, many, many more tries. But yeah, (0:42:05) Al: that one I was like, “Oh my word, I just got it in the second try. That’s wild.” (0:42:09) Kev: Nice. (0:42:10) Al: Because I actually, the first time I did it, I got 1-1-4-1. And so I was like, “Oh no, (0:42:15) Kev: Oh, dang. (0:42:17) Al: If I get– I think I can– (0:42:18) Al: do this, and then I managed to get it the second time. (0:42:20) Al: It was very satisfying, but– (0:42:21) Al: So I need to go back and do it some more. (0:42:23) Al: I don’t think I’ll be getting a second time in the– (0:42:26) Al: is there a knockout tour with Rainbow Road? (0:42:28) Kev: I don’t remember off the I don’t think there is now I’m guessing there isn’t (0:42:32) Al: Yeah, OK. (0:42:34) Al: So I’ll need to go back and try it, just– (0:42:37) Al: either with the Grand Prix or just on its own. (0:42:38) Kev: Yeah, I guess nothing else from your week you want to talk about (0:42:39) Al: All right, should we talk about some “Cottagecore” games? (0:42:43) Al: 40 minutes in. (0:42:45) Al: We’ve got some news. (0:42:47) Al: So first of all, Lens Island. (0:42:48) Al: 1.0 is now out, I believe, I think you talked about it with Cody in the last episode, so we (0:42:52) Kev: We did (0:42:53) Al: don’t need to go over much, but it’s now out! Huzzah! They also di
This week Diana's guest Tim Thomas shares a compelling personal story about surviving a shark attack while spearfishing, and how trust, faith, and human connection played crucial roles in his survival. Thomas discusses the importance of breath work in managing trauma, enhancing sleep quality, and promoting overall well-being. He offers practical exercises and insights into activating the parasympathetic nervous system to foster calm and healing. Thomas also introduces his 'Breathwork in Bed' app designed to help users achieve better sleep and improve their daily lives. The episode concludes with Diana and Tim emphasizing the significance of addressing and healing generational trauma for oneself and future generations. 02:23 Shark Attack Story 03:05 The Power of Trust and Faith 05:46 Breath Work and Healing from Trauma 15:20 Practical Breath Work Exercise 21:41 The Importance of Quality Sleep 27:24 Conclusion and Contact Information https://breathworkinbed.com.au/ Free for the first 20 clicks! This is my Breathwork in Bed audio book, narrated by myself; https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V98IW0DdoH_-k4xZGRpokolXMLXhwEP4/view?usp=drivesdk This is the links to the Breathwork in Bed app. The app will guide you to sleep with peace and out of bed with power. Links are for Apple/Smart phones & Google/Androids Apple link: https://apps.apple.com/app/breathwork-in-bed-app/id6575362285 Google Link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.breathworkinbed.bibsleepapp20&hl=en www.breathworkinbed.com.au https://www.instagram.com/breathworkinbed/ https://www.facebook.com/breathworkinbed This is the tutorial for the breath of PEACE and POSSIBILITY https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QsuCHJ7UcHrwBIVQp9FTrVvgJGbMjRSw/view?usp=sharing Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Tim Thomas Part 2 [00:00:00] Last time on the wounds of the Faithful podcast. Tim Thomas 2: I know there's a shark story somewhere. How does the shark come into play with, is that, just something you survived or is that. Oh, look, that was a fun NBE near death experience where, um, okay. Yeah. Very relevant. It was the classic one where you have your life flashing before your eyes. Right. Um, and the important part about isn't so much the shark attack in the, in the context of a, a, let's say Christian faith afterwards, because I, I love the ocean, I love spearfishing. And there's always sharks where there's fish when we're chasing fish. There's, it's always a good sign when there's sharks around because that tells you you're in the right area. And it's a fun story. Like this thing had my leg, and I don't believe it when people say, oh, I punched it and then it went away. I'm stabbing this thing in the eye and it's not letting go. And I'm about to drown, right? As a fighter, I've taken a lot of hits, but never, ever, ever has my body [00:01:00] felt like a ragdoll being shaken by a dog. Mm-hmm. Um, so I literally felt that my body going, oh yeah, yeah. Like just so rapidly shook. I'm like, whoa. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Tim Thomas 2: Hey folks, thanks for coming back to the podcast. We're back listening to part two of my conversation with Tim Thomas. So far it's been really exciting, hasn't it? He is definitely a [00:02:00] storyteller. We got more of that for you today. So I'm not going to review, his bio. You can read that in the show notes. And of course, as always, I tell you to go back and listen to part one if you have not done so already. But, so hold onto your seats and here's part two of my conversation with Tim Thomas. Enjoy. I had my mate Jimmy. Now Jimmy was a fellow commando, and where we train is a place called the Kill House, where we get very used to shooting close to each other. And he was coming down and he had this look in his eye saying, I got this and I got you. And it was so strange, even though I'm about to drown, like it wasn't a big shark, it was maybe two meters. But you, like I said, the power it had was surprising. And, and I'm getting tangled up in my float line and Jimmy's coming down and I look in his eyes. And like I said, as much as I was about to die, the [00:03:00] trust that went through my system had me completely relax and be at peace. And it was at that moment I realized, you know, when times get tough, as humans, we think, oh, I need more stuff to feel secure. We don't need more stuff, we need more trust. Mm-hmm. And it's in that trust that we can find our rest. My mother always says, we don't find, rest until we rest in the Lord. You know, it's pretty hard to find trust in another human being, but you can find it, you know, in the above. And on this occasion, I got a taste of that through another human. So I was able to turn my body, give him a shot, and his spear from his spear gun went straight through the shark that was hanging onto my leg. And look, long story short. I survived and, lived to tell the story. But afterwards, and the point I need to sort of make here is, afterwards someone said, when you saw your life flashing before your eyes, do you think that was a [00:04:00] spiritual experience? And I'm like, no. And here's why. Really? Yeah. No, it wasn't. It was cool. It was new. I'd never seen it before, but it was just my life through my eyes. Okay. I didn't get any other perspective. It was just my life seen through my own eyes. If that was a spiritual experience, I would be seeing, the sequence of events of my life and how that one action impacted others. I've got the faith to know that, when this body of mine goes back into the earth. God will say, here's your life as you saw it. Now here's your life as I saw it. But faith to me is not so much whether God exists 'cause he simply does or doesn't. Faith to me is knowing that my everyday life is creating powerful and positive impacts outside of my awareness. Well, I'm glad that you had a friend that was there for you to spearhead that, that shark. Now, for me, [00:05:00] that would've been a, you know, see a Jesus moment. If, if I hadn't already been a Christian, I would've definitely gotten on board with that shark hanging onto my leg and shaking me like a ragdoll, as you eloquently, uh, displayed. So I'm like, well, I'm about to drown anyway. I'm as well, you know, forego a finger. So I put my finger inside the corner of this shark's mouth, and I'm feeling around inside its mouth of the on switch. I flick it on and then boom, that's when it, lets go. And before that I'd stabbed this thing in the eye. Jimmy had speared this thing, let's go when I turn this shark shoot on, and then I swim to the surface and take the sweetest breath of air I've ever had. Right? Oh, that was probably a million dollar breath right there. I wanted to give you, enough time to talk about your breath work that, you're so passionate about. How does it work and how can it help, those of us that have gone through some really severe trauma, [00:06:00] like you've talked about shark attacks, PTSD, war, illness, losing your loved ones. How does that work behind the scenes? Sure. So think about all the events that create stress like an accelerator on your car. Okay, people hit the gas, all right? And often, you burn out or you crash into something. Doing that breath allows you to activate what's called your parasympathetic nervous system or your break. And that's quite a strange concept for people who are so used to, accelerating to hit the brake and to slow down. Um, allows your system. Once the revs drop down to a certain point, that's when the healing can take place. So when I was getting guys outta fatigue and I improved their sleep quality, everything in their life improved. So think of everything you've got in your life, everything like work, [00:07:00] play, relationships, the quality of all those things is relative to the quality of your sleep. If your sleep is disturbed, that disturbs everything in the special forces. We used to actively target our enemy's sleep. 'cause we knew if we took it out for three nights, it would mess 'em up better than a bullet. So I just noticed that improving sleep allowed the body to heal. And the best way I know how to do it, pharmaceutical free is the deep activation of the parasympathetic nervous system and done right, it goes beyond words. It goes beyond thought. Because depending on your view of human evolution, before we were thinking, before we putting paintings on rock walls, we were breathing before he was speaking, we were breathing. And one thing the psychologists haven't figured out yet is when people go through trauma, the trauma goes down deeper than the words can reach. And so breath is one of those things that can get into the [00:08:00] deepest parts of us. Slow down and give us peace. And it's funny that for me, poor sleep is the perfect environment for any negative stuff in your head to grow more of. So I tend to lean into the idea that poor quality sleep is the thing that creates a lot of mental problems. And they both feed each other. The more problems you've got in your head, the worse sleep you get. The worse sleep you get, the more problems in your head grow. So to arrest the physical side of things, breath work is a great way, and I'm not just gonna talk about this. I'm gonna show you an activity, to actually have that experience. And I've got a whole company based around that. Breath is something that we do consciously as well as unconsciously. I need to say this because. Think of your mind like a garden, whatever your water grows, okay? And those, uh, for years I was watering the weeds of stress. Let's say you want [00:09:00] to, do some exercise. There's a part of you going, not right now. I don't wanna do this. There's that part of you trying to talk you out of exercise. That's the disempowered parts of your head, knowing that if you exercise and you become powerful, they're gone. They're no longer in there. So they scream the loudest when they're about to die. So if you amplify that by about a thousand and someone's got some trauma in their head that they've been feeding for years, that's what you're up against. When, you often do anything new that's positive. 'cause this stuff in your head goes, no, I don't wanna be kicked out. So the thing I need to tell people is that even though I was a breath work coach. And I knew breath work would make me feel better when I'd gotten divorced. I'd lost my house, my home, my money, regular access to kids, and I'm sleeping in the lounge room of my parents' place at 3:00 AM These stress weeds, were loving it. They're like, this is awesome. We're getting all the resources. And I knew that breathing would bring me peace, but it's like I could [00:10:00] not do it. I was all locked up with the stress weeds running the show. And I got to the point early in the morning that I was either gonna do self-harm, alcohol, pills, whatever it was. and yet I, part of me knew that breathing would help. So what I did in that completely desperate state, was I looked at my left thumb and I said, Tim, you can take one breath. Just take one breath. And I drove into my chest and went, oh my gosh. And it was like taking that first breath after coming up from the shark attack. And then I'm like, okay, that works. And I stuck two fingers into my chest, take two breaths, Tim, take two breaths. And I took two breaths. Okay, 3, 3, 3, get to three and then five, get to five, get to 10. You know, and I'm just driving these fingers in one at a time, one at a time. And then somewhere between breath 15 and breath 25, these stress weeds got kicked out. And the rest of my brain was, thank goodness you kicked those guys out. Keep doing this. This is working. But up until the point they got kicked out, there was so much resistance because these guys were running the [00:11:00] show. So yes, breath work works, but just understand that when you need it most, there will be opposition. And right now I'm just blah blah blahing, right? But when this actually happens, you'll be like, oh, this is what the guy was talking about. And that's why, with the Breathwork in Bed app, it's guided. So you can go, well look, I don't believe this will work, but I'm just gonna do that, and then this, and then all of a sudden, oh my gosh, this actually works. You know what I mean? It does work. We were talking before the show that, I have a good psychiatrist that I've been seeing and, I had some triggers to my trauma and was there to see her and, she introduced me to breath work. And you probably know the beginner exercise. You're breathing in for four and you're holding it for four and Yep. Get all box breathing four, and then you, you start all over again. And I was kind of skeptical. I'm like, just gimme some Xanax, and be done with it. And she said, no, this is faster. And, we started doing that in the appointment and she [00:12:00] had me hooked up to the her little monitor system and she showed me how my nervous system calmed down in just a few minutes of me doing those. Those breath sessions. And so she gave me, homework to do. And, yeah, the demons come out at three o'clock in the morning, brother. And that's when I have to remember, okay, you gotta remember your breath work here. And then I can go back to sleep. So I'm already, excited about what you're doing. Well, you've experienced yourself, it's pretty lonely at 3:00 AM. Yeah. And so, you know, not many people like yourself have that discipline to go into their breath, but to have a button you can press, I wanted to be there for those people at 2:00 AM when I needed it. I think God put me in that situation so I could have empathy and then create a tool for people in those places. Um, 'cause I can't do what you do, Diana, and I can't do what all the listeners do, but if I can improve the quality of your sleep, then you're gonna do what you do even better. And I think if you are a [00:13:00] responsible person, it's one thing to generate yourself and create an abundance in yourself. But if you believe that, you know, at some point God's gonna ask you, what did you do for those others around you? and what nobody knew back when I was doing all these incredible things in the veteran space, 40 saving 40 veteran lives from suicide is every six or seven weeks. I really find that the daily practice of connecting to yourself, your God, first, creating that abundance and out of your overflow, you can be generous with others. Yes. You have to, put on your oxygen mask first before you help others next to you. That whole airplane scenario we always hear about. But it's true. You can't fill somebody else's cup of your cup isn't full. You know, you're running on empty. That's not gonna help anybody. And the thing that really gave me quite a, an uppercut Diana, was the [00:14:00] realization that my trauma, my unhealed wounds, I don't have the privilege of taking them to the grave with me. They don't stop when I die. I pay them forward to my kids. I pay them forward to everyone who meets me. For me it was anger. Now, I've never met my great, great grandfather, but I'm pretty sure he was an angry dude. I had to say, look, anger ran in my family until it ran into me. You know, I had to be the one to create healing for the generations before and the generations afterwards. So having that external focus where if I don't deal with it myself, my kids are gonna have to deal with it. Everyone else has to deal with it. It gets paid forward. Great. And I thank you for saying that because you know, it ends here with me. The generational trauma, it ends now. And so many people miss that. You can't sit here and wallow in your trauma, in your, past abuse because your kids and the people around you are gonna suffer too if you don't deal with it. Oh, I like that. Instead of deal with it, heal with it! So I'm really excited to, get an [00:15:00] example Yes. Of this breath work. I'm, let's get a lived experience, almost like, almost like taste, touch, feel. So the only caveat I have to this, Diana, is people listening to this, I'd love you to participate as fully as possible, but you do need to be seated, supported, or lying down. You can't be driving, you can't be cutting up carrots. Because this is gonna be you connecting fully to your breath, and breathing is easy, but You've been breathing a certain way your whole life, right? And so to do it differently takes a a bit of focus and concentration. So I'm gonna do everything within my power to, have you take these full breaths, and all allow yourself to experience the fullness of it, okay? All allow yourself to go somewhere you haven't possibly gone before. Allow yourself to have a bit of courage right now,because Most people, they shallow breathe. If you saw someone in public and they're going, sh, sh, sh, sh, you know, they're about to [00:16:00] freak out, right? And without knowing it, most of us are shallow breathing is, or albeit slower, but we're still sending a signal to our brains that we're in fight or flight. We can't rest and digest. So, to breathe fully is to live fully, to feel fully. All right, so this is really simple. I show this to high school students, to corporates, and, and like I said, I'm gonna do everything I can for people to get this, but they do need to be seated, not driving, not cutting up carrots, listening to my voice. So to start with Diana, it's gonna be really easy. Just breathe in and breathe out. All right. That was easy, right? So now we're gonna build on that. We're gonna breathe in, and then we're gonna breathe in again and again, and again and again. All right, let's give that a try. Breathe in again and again, and again and again, and just let that go. Now, did you notice, Diana, a little bit of extra space opening up in your, in your upper chest? [00:17:00] Absolutely. Okay. I didn't think that was there. So what, and it's amazing. We all own bodies, but we don't know what it can do for us. Like our bodies are amazing. I'm gonna show you another amazing fact about your body that you never knew. So in your thumb and two fingers, you've got a turbo button, okay? Thumb and two fingers. And we're gonna pinch our fingers together as hard as possible in just a minute. All right, so that inhale you did where you breathed in, and then you breathed in again and again and again. We'll call that your secondary inhale. All right? We're gonna call that your secondary inhale. So what's gonna happen in a second is you're gonna breathe in through your primary inhale. When it gets to your secondary inhale, I want you to pinch your thumb into your two fingers as hard as you can, and notice how that boosts your secondary inhale. So everybody listening, just blow all [00:18:00] your air out, out, out, out, out, out. Now breathe in. And then when you're ready, hit the turbo buttons really hard and suck it into that upper chest. And then just let that out. Now, Diana, did you notice when you hit those buttons, you can breathe a little bit more in? Yes. That's, that's crazy. Who knew, right? Our bodies are amazing. We are wonderfully made. Do that a couple of times. so can you feel the connection between your fingers and your upper third? Who knew? Right now, we're gonna juice that up even more. All right. So think of your, your chin and your power buttons, and there's a triangle there, right? And we are gonna, we are gonna open that triangle. We're gonna hit our power buttons as we raise our [00:19:00] chin to the sur, to the roof. So our, our chin is gonna go up, our chest is gonna go up. It's like we are leaning back. So I'll give you a little demonstration. We're gonna breathe out, then breathe in. And when it comes to the secondary inhale, we're gonna raise our chin, push our power buttons, and hold it there. And then just feel what it is to get it all up in that space. Are you ready? Yep. So breathing, breathing out, breathe it out, out, out, out, out. Breathing in, hit your power buttons, raise your chin, raise your chest. Look at the ceiling. Look at the ceiling. Raise your chin higher. Up, up, up. Open, open, open. And then just let it out. Almost like an upward dog. Pretty much. It was like a, seated upward dog. Yep. That was great. And, and we're about halfway through. So the thing about [00:20:00] this secondary inhale. I call this the breath of possibility. Okay? When I've got crap in my head, I don't want there, I notice my structure hunches over, okay? And things become impossible because I'm all hunched over, I'm pinching off my own air supply. So what this does, when we breathe forcefully into this upper third, I make the impossible possible. So this is your breath of possibility. So what I want you to do is try and double the speed of inhalation, but just do it through your nose. Really try and snort it. Flare your nostrils, snort it through your nose. One thing my fighting coach taught me was that doing a nice snort through your nose, it goes through your sinuses straight into your brain. So the quickest way to oxygenate your brain is snorting through the sinuses. I dunno the science behind it, but it seemed to work in a fight. All right, so, so what we're gonna do is like double the speed of our inhale by really, raising that chin fast, pinching those [00:21:00] ones and, and, and opening up this space with a, with a bit of aggression. Are you ready? Ready, everyone. Let's exhale. Exhale, exhale, exhale. Breathe in. Hit your turbo buttons and snort, snort snotor. Look at the roof. Look at the roof. Open the chest. Open the chest. Open your chest like a flower. Now hold it there. Wriggle your shoulders. Open up that space by wriggle your shoulders. Wriggle your shoulders. Opening up. Feels really good to open it up and let it out with a loud sigh. Ah, great. All right. How you feeling? I'm feeling good. Okay, so we're halfway through. Breath of possibility is up here. Breath of peace is down low in your belly. So what we're going to do right now. We're gonna do that big inhale. Okay. Filling that breath of possibility, that [00:22:00] top third, we're gonna hold our breath. We're gonna let that air go from our upper chest, middle chest, lower, and we're gonna push it down low. Our hands are gonna be on our stomach, and we're gonna push it down as low as it can go. We're gonna squeeze it down there and we're gonna let it out With a hissing noise. A, it's like the air wants to come out, but your mouth is stopping it a bit like you've got that pressure cooker on the stove and there's that, that, that steam coming out. That's what it's gonna be like and I'll coach you through it, but the longer you can make that sound for the better it's gonna be. Now this is something new. So we're gonna do this three times. And the third time you do this, you'll probably be able to relax and move a whole lot more freely. There's no wrong way to do this, but just this is doing something new, and I wanna acknowledge you. You're doing really well. Normally, when I'm running a workshop, it takes about an hour to get people to this stage. So, you're doing really well. So listening to my voice, we're gonna blow all our [00:23:00] air out, out, out, out, out, out. Breathing in power buttons, raise your chin, raise your chest, open your chest like a flower in, in, in, in, in. Then hold it. And wriggle. Wriggle your shoulders. Wriggle your shoulders. Now let your head relax forward. Let your head relax forward. Let your shoulders relax forward. Put your hands on your belly. And squeeze your belly. Let your head sort of hang forward like it's down towards your knees. And then let out a as long as possible. And as you let it out, let all the tension fall outta your body. Tension out of your shoulders, out of your arms, out of your face. Feel like you're a deflating toy. Air's just falling out of you. And so is the tension. Let it all just fall out with your breath [00:24:00] out now. Very good. And this last one is gonna be the best one ever with your turbo buttons ready? Blow it all the way out. Breathing in. Open up that chest, raise that chin. Feel that flower in your chest opening up. Let the sunshine in. Let the sunshine in. Hold it, wriggle it around. R it around. And holding your breath, just collapse your head forward. Collapse your head forward. Let your head just hang loose. Hands on your belly. Hands on your belly. Feel that balloon of air down below. Squeeze it and let it out with a for as long as possible. And as that air leaves your body, let all the tension just deflate out of your body. Your whole body is deflating and resting and coming to peace. All the tensions from your neck, your shoulders, [00:25:00] your spine, your face, it's all just leaving with your exhale. And all I'm gonna invite you to do is just keep your eyes closed for a second, and sit back in your chair. Sit back in your chair, and let that chair support your weight. Feel how your muscles are feeling supported by that chair. Feel how your relaxation is allowing you to feel held and supported. That chair was built to support you. It will support you. So often in our tension, we don't allow ourselves to feel supported and held. It's like our own tension is, is a backwards way of having us feel held and supported. But it doesn't work like that. It's only when we give up our tension and give up our stress that we can feel supported, feel held, [00:26:00] and I invite you just to breathe deeply into that sensation of feeling supported, feeling held. If there's any muscles in your body that need extra relaxation, I invite you to put your breath directly into them like you are breathing into those shoulders or neck or face. Notice how you can use your breath to target muscle groups and target different parts of your body. It's moments like this. We realize that everything we need, everything we have been looking for is right here underneath our own skin. I. Access through our breath. What a divine gift. Shake your body out and well done. You've just accessed [00:27:00] your breath. A deep connection with your body. And how do you feel? Yeah, I feel like going for a run. Uh, that's the first time I've ever done that on a podcast, so this was great. That was more than I was, uh, expecting you to give us tonight. That was excellent. So tell us how the folks can get in touch with you. I know you have your app. Mm-hmm. Yep. So anyone with a phone can, can put in three words to their app store, breath work in bed. I'm not a tech person, so I made it tech easy. It'll ask you when you wanna sleep, when you wanna wake up, and then notifications will fall out at that time. You just hit the button and away you go. You'll be guided to sleep with peace out of bed with power. There's a bunch of bonus features on there that I'll let you discover for yourself. If you wanna reach out for me personally, you can go through the website, [00:28:00] breathworkinbed.com au. Um, and you know, I, I just want my desire is that people see how wondrously they're made and not just see it, but taste, touch, feel it. So if you did that activity, you'd be feeling what it is to go, wow, this is awesome. I thought I'd have to take a pill or some external substance right? To access that kind of power. The resources is there and there's an accumulation effect. The better you sleep, the better you get outta bed. the better old day you have then, there's a lot in there. And, the app is specifically made to give people, you know, the good stuff when they need it. Yes, I've got socials, and you can subscribe obviously, but there's enough social media in the world, in my opinion, what people need more than anything else is quality sleep. Um, because if you go off the idea that sleep is the soil from which everything grows. I believe everyone's [00:29:00] got seeds of greatness, seeds of uniqueness inside of them, and they're just laying dormant for the right conditions. So when you improve your sleep, that's good. But what makes me excited is the flourishing of people's uniqueness, greatness, the gifts that they have that are just sitting dormant, that'll never grow while you're in fatigue. Right, exactly. Well, this will, be in the show notes. How much is the app? Is there a cost for, uh, the first 28 days is free. It, it costs less than a cup of coffee for a month, to subscribe. But yeah, you do get the first 28 d free. Yeah. Cheaper than pharmaceutical drugs too. Well, I thank you so much for what you do for saving lives and. Even though you're not in our military, thank you for your service. You're keeping people safe and doing the job that some people are not willing to do to go running into fire or bullets or danger. And so thank you so much for being on the show and sharing with us those [00:30:00] exercises at the end. That was priceless. Two things I'll do for your viewers. I'll put in a link, the first p first 20 people that click it will get a free copy of my audio book. Uh, but I'll also put a link in there for that breath of peace and possibility should they want to tap into that again at any point. Excellent. I'll put that in the, show notes as well. God bless you, Tim. Thanks so much for having me on Diana. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.
Prior to his acquisition of a Commercial Landscaping Company in 2022, Chris had a successful career in Finance, spending the past twelve years in consulting, mergers & acquisitions (buy and sell side transactions in the petrochemical space). He co-founded Salem Oak Vineyards in 2013, produced several award-winning wines, and helped grow the business to $750,000 in sales. He continues to serve as a strategic partner to the winery. Chris has also built a successful real estate portfolio over the past ten years transacting on $2.5 MM in single family real estate and raw land development. After overcoming initial challenges post-acquisition, Chris continues to focus on growth both organically and through bolt-on acquisitions in commercial landscaping and tree removal. When he's not chasing deals, he's spending quality time with his growing family.
Hey HBs! We're back with part 2 of Muriel's Wedding! Content Warnings: Cancer diagnosis and treatment, suicide of a parent. Check out Jaime's spicy contemporary books! https://jaimepbradley.com/the-books/ and follow her on Tiktok and Instagram! Want more of us? Check out our PATREON! This Friday Patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers are getting a squeepisode on the last book in The Games We Play in Granville series, SEVEN MINUTES IN KEVIN by DJ Jamison! Thank you for keeping Mel sane, fluffy MM romance authors! Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz Art: Author Kate Prior Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail Follow our socials: Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more.
iera returns with the Green Park Dentistry team, Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg, to discuss tips for those who want to evolve their leadership. Jeff and Dr. Sugg share their own journey, which included immersing themselves in a new community. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is part two of Dr. Andrew and Jeff talking about, they already went through their expansion, what they did, and now I really wanted to get into the nitty gritty of what makes Andrew so incredible as a doctor and what makes Jeff an incredible leader in his practice to get the growth and the success that they've been able to have. And I'm so excited for you to experience it. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast. Kiera Dent (00:24) Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓ because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part? Jeff & Andrew (00:52) Yeah, thank you. Well, that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years. Kiera Dent (01:19) I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through. Jeff & Andrew (01:33) you Kiera Dent (01:46) Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together. Jeff & Andrew (01:50) Yeah. Right, yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah Kiera Dent (02:16) and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my tangent, keep going. Jeff & Andrew (02:20) No, that's that one. So I guess that's that's part like that's kind of part of my after always remind myself I need to be very appreciative for everyone around me. So that's probably number one. And I guess that goes into like, you need to kind of check your ego, right? Like as much as everybody wants it to be all about the dentist and all about me. I'm really just the guy that does the dentistry and I enjoy kind of being like that side note, like I'd rather people come talk to him. Right. So I think like the more you can step back and see yourself as that clinician is very beneficial. And then kind of let, again, the people around you lead and be those positive lights that they can be, that's like how you're gonna grow, right? And then I think that goes along with an associate where, ⁓ again, kind of being humble, like, yes, I know a lot, but I don't know everything. And I learned stuff as much from the associates or how they do things differently as much as they may learn from me. And I think when you come to a situation more with ⁓ curiosity and... really trying to find how you can learn and be better every day, then they only want to do the same. So you really have to lead by example, lead with curiosity, really come to work every day, just trying to do better for people around you. And I want to chime in. think you lead from your heart too. You have a passion for people and you have a passion for what you do, dentistry. Like you live, breathe, speak it all the time. Even outside the office. You're always- Too hard, right? Shut it down. You're always seeking new things. You're always at speaking with Dr. Parks about, what do you think about this? Or how would you approach this rather than this point of, hey, I do it this way, you have to do it. You do approach curiosity. And I think the frequency that he's able to, the amount of time they spend together in this office, they share an actual office. ⁓ So they're able to compare. Kiera Dent (03:45) ⁓ And now you look beautiful! Jeff & Andrew (04:14) Everything all the time. So if at any time that they're both in the office together I could walk by they're always talking about a case or how they could improve something or how could we approach this or This is funny. What like what should we do? You know, it becomes this collaboration and less of a like we're having a calibration meeting this day for this time We're going to talk about X. It's kind of a constant Yeah, like I listen in on his new patient exams. He listens in on mine. And yeah, it's just a constant thing. I think, honestly, again, that was a necessity that that started that way. And I think in our old office, it was actually me, Jeff and Dr. Parks all in a room that was really meant to be for me. And we all were crammed in there. And eventually Jeff moved because he got tired of listening to us talk about dentistry. Kiera Dent (05:01) I was gonna say that's why Jeff's not in the office. He's like, I don't wanna hear about this dentistry. hear about it way too much. You two have fun. Jeff & Andrew (05:04) He's like, I gotta get away from Yeah. need some space. Yeah. So that wouldn't have been a decision I probably would have made if we had all this space, right? So I think it is funny, like again, that necessity and just kind of trust in the process and learning what you can. But I'm like, I'm so grateful for those early years and like he and I have such a bond now that we're excited for our next associate and bringing him or her into our office and making them a part of our little dorky dental group. Kiera Dent (05:32) love it. And I mean, Jeff, you're right. But I if I'm to have a dentist, I want the dentist who talks nonstop about dentistry. I know that's not probably so nice at home. Jason has an alarm on our phone for us. So, Jeff, if you want to take like marriage tip from me and Jay, because I will talk about business forever. And he's like, shut down, girl. The alarm goes off at five every night. And that's when I have to stop talking work. And it goes off like it's every single day. Six o five. I know what time and I'm like, OK. Jeff & Andrew (05:40) I'm Hahaha Kiera Dent (05:59) That's my time limit. So you want to talk about like a show? I'm like, I don't even know what I'm about. So it's a really handy thing for me to have to shut it down. But Andrew, I am curious on that. I think a lot of doctors struggle and I love how you talked about like, this isn't how I do it. Like, what do you think and how can we do this? I'm curious. So let's say you saw of a future associate, we'll use Dr. Parks right now, cause that's one you know, you won't know the future one's personality, but Jeff & Andrew (06:01) Yeah. Yeah. Kiera Dent (06:27) Let's say you see dentistry that's not up to your standard with Dr. Parks. How do you go and have that conversation with him to where he feels supported, but at the same time, you don't allow your culture, your brand, the type of dentistry to go out the door without having, like, people don't know how to have this conversation because you're both dentists. So how do you handle that with Dr. Parks? Jeff & Andrew (06:46) Yeah. So I think, ⁓ kind of bring it back to like what he's doing it for, right? So it's not about me seeing a problem, but it's like, hey, here's how this could maybe be a better outcome for your patient, right? Or I would like argue, I would like to kind of always spin and make myself an example. Like, hey, I used to do it this way, right? Like, or I used to do something different, but my old mentor who I love and admire, like she helped show me the way, right? And I've really learned a lot from her. So I think that's also where like for our future associate, need to make sure that that is a key component of their culture is to be open and constantly learning and be curious. And ⁓ I think that is definitely a big goal of ours is to find that in the next person. And that's where we also feel very lucky with our associate. We know that that's not ⁓ very easy to find an associate and kind of have that success with it. So again, as much as I'm appreciative for Jeff. I'm very appreciative for Dr. Parks too, and I think it shows in our relationship as well. Kiera Dent (07:46) Yeah. Well, I think like also though, when you've built a practice to your size, you normally now get to be choosy and picky. I feel like when you're like a little bit smaller, it's kind of like, I got to like help someone wants to come work in this like amazing brown, purple, green popcorn ceiling and share an office with me, my husband, and you get to be in here too, like Harry Potter corners all the way around. But now you get to be even more choosy on who comes forward because you've got this amazing space. You've got the place where someone wants to come. Jeff & Andrew (07:56) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Seriously. Right. Kiera Dent (08:14) And I think that's gonna be really awesome to watch you grow on that next one. So thank you for that. Jeff, I wanna pivot to you. I've watched your leadership. I've watched you grow. I've watched you run a team. I've watched you go from Gilbert to Jeff. I've watched you sit in meetings. It was so fun to see you in person. It has been far too long for me. It was pre-COVID since the last time I saw you. And we met in person and I watched you. You sit there with this inquisitive mind. You sit there with this, you've got a... Jeff & Andrew (08:31) I know. Kiera Dent (08:41) depth of knowledge that's just impressive to me. And also I've watched you grow in your leadership. I've seen you, I talked to Tiffany and you're in your community in leadership courses, you're doing pieces. I just wanna know, and Andrew, this is now where you're gonna like love on Jeff on this, of how have you gone from where you were to where you are today? Like I know that's a whole process and I know that's very broad, but just even thinking of some of the strokes that you've taken, I know you and Tiff have worked super hard. I'm gonna give like mad kudos to Tiffany and I'm sure you will too. Jeff & Andrew (09:08) Yeah. Kiera Dent (09:08) But I'm just curious because I think leadership is so elusive for so many people. And yet I've watched you like take this on this, but you're also a baller. Like you don't get run over. You have hard conversations. You speak up. You're very brilliant in what you do. Andrew, I agree. Jeff's a machine. I watch him. He's like, all right, got my list. I got all these things. I'm going home. Andrew, this is what we're going to do. You think, Jeff, you think Andrew's running the show, but. I know that who's really running it is you. Like you're like, all right, this is getting done. We're getting all this done. This is where the lights are going. Everybody move in on this day. But you do it with poise and grace. so I'm just curious at like tips for people who maybe are trying to evolve in their leadership, things that you've done to be the, like truly, I think you're a huge example of a successful leader. And so it's okay. This is your brag moment. I know it can be awkward, but I really am just so proud of you and excited to hear what you think has been part of that evolution of you. Jeff & Andrew (09:37) Yeah. Well, the first, thank you. That's like, I want to cry right now. Thank you. You don't often hear that. ⁓ So thanks for that. ⁓ Honestly, know, I had a little experience ⁓ in my past career about, ⁓ you know, it was an industry that's off offshore. So it's a difficult industry. Kiera Dent (10:06) You're welcome. I feel tear-eyed, Luke, because I'm just really proud of you. Like truly. Jeff & Andrew (10:27) for me personally to enter into, know, with these rough, greasy, you know, I'm not scared of dirt, obviously it was geology, but, you know, a lot of people aren't socially aware who might be working with them, you know, so, you know, being gay in an industry like that, that's nobody's like, ⁓ did I offend somebody by what I said? That's, you know what I mean? So that's, you kind of get a little bit of a tough skin there, right? So I've had experience. With that, I've had experience managing projects ⁓ offshore. I've had experience managing projects onshore. I grew up in a family that my dad, my parents are business owners and I was put to work for not a legal pay at a very young age. So I just learned like, I've got to work to do this stuff. then, you know, fast forward to meeting you guys when I was unhappy, I was like, what am I going to do? Right? So you guys, you, Tiffany, the collaboration, the tools, the building blocks, the confidence, the empowerment that you were like, you can do it and you're the only one that is, right? ⁓ So that led me on it. And then we went into the catalyst of showing up to that office that day with a different vibe and then seeing that it works. ⁓ So then I think naturally we moved to this county from a very different county in Florida that a lot... Kiera Dent (11:46) Thank Jeff & Andrew (11:55) population was very different and we're in a very different population here. So we did have some fear coming in. So we were cautious about, you know, how we represented ourselves, if we made a big splash. And then as we realized the momentum of the practice and the service of what we were doing, it was gaining momentum and people came to us for our service and our dentistry. So then that gave us confidence to be like, okay, this is what people want. And I think part of my mindset ⁓ in creating the vision and how the business that we want is thinking about past jobs and what did Andrew not like about ⁓ how he was treated by a mentor, previous employers, or how he had to follow a protocol to do this to the patient. And we realized, I kind of just have a challenging mentality, like why? You know, like, can we do it different? Should we do it different? Yeah, we probably should, because that's what everybody wants, right? So then we started to see those little pieces gain success and the community be like, we're going to them because they do that different. Differently. Differently. Thank you. We call them by name, something as simple as that, you know. It's like, wow, that's a big difference. So then. Kiera Dent (12:51) . Mm-hmm. Right. Jeff & Andrew (13:14) I think I'd encourage people to start looking in their area. I didn't realize the opportunities that our county and like had around us, right? So I started to take advantage of that. I to the chamber, we joined the chamber. ⁓ And then that led me to an opportunity for leadership Catawba. We live in Catawba County. I was like, let me try this. was, you know, a small time investment in the big picture. And that introduced me to people in our area that I was like, you're I can lean on you now and I can use you as a resource. How can we work together? Then I was just learned so much about our county and the riches of it, like what sets this county apart. And I was like, I love that. That's what we try to do in our business. So then, you know, as you learn about your surroundings and how like the local government works, you can start to make those contacts and start to go to those people and then you become a source to them as well. ⁓ So in that, I learned about other opportunities. took an HR class at our local, our community college. I was like, I should probably know some like legit HR stuff, right? Right? Like before we build this giant dental practice. So that led me to the community college, which the HR class was in the furniture academy. So that led me to a relationship where in a big furniture area where they were custom building as they were teaching students creating furniture for a dental practice. So. That opened up a community door. Then we started with the building. The whole purpose of buying a building bigger than we need it is so we can put that vision forward and ⁓ create a big collaborative space. But in doing so within our own space, we did create a large conference room, a little kind of event space that we've welcomed Hickory Football Club in. are soccer teams, we've had Girl Scouts in, we've had other nonprofits in. It's kind of become a space that we can host and collaborate with the community and welcome them into our space. I kind of love that. I think it's been the curiosity and kind of just little incremental like, cool, this sounds cool. I'm going to do this. And then that leads to so much. And we were even just saying like the whole like our building is so big. Like we have an area that we actually offer like a nonprofit in the area to come. were they were losing their space and they came here and it's led to so now I feel so fulfilled that I'm helping someone in a way that's not dentistry, which I never thought I would do. And so it just feels good to like given that way that we never imagined and it's led to so much more. So I think that curiosity is led to that. That's where with Jeff, like he really is like so amazing at being good, being, he's living by that example, right? Like he's gonna be here every day. He's gonna be put in the work. He's gonna do all these things and he's inspired now that he did the leadership we've sent. one of our other staff member or team members. And then we've got a third one that's about to go to leadership Katawba. So it's just kind of led to a lot of inspiration for the people around us. And yeah, I think that the more you can kind of be there for others and let others kind of lean on you, it's just really, like that sense of community is there. And I think that's where too, you kind of start realizing you're not there for everyone and everyone's not going to love me as a dentist, but I get, there'll be enough, right? There's enough people. yeah. And we feel good about what we're doing. And we know we're raising people up and it's raising us up too. So, and I think it's really important to ⁓ provide opportunities, like learning opportunities outside the practice, because that's where connections really get made. Kiera Dent (16:41) Yeah. I Jeff, was just I agree with you, Andrew. What I was hearing, I'm like, I always am listening for like, what's the pattern? What's the silver lining? Like what really sets you apart? And I think Jeff, it was truly hearing the curiosity and also the drive to be the best. Like I should go learn HR. Like this is a zone I'm gapped in. And instead of it being like, well, let's just like find some for you. Like, no, I'm going to go learn. I'm going to hunker in. Then I'm going to figure out how I need to delegate this out. And I have a sign over here from Gandhi that we've given our leaders this year and it's Jeff & Andrew (17:15) Mm-hmm. Kiera Dent (17:20) A sign of a good leader is not how many followers you have, but how many leaders you create. And I think, Jeff, that's something you're doing really incredibly well of creating more leaders around you and rising more people up around you. And Andrew, the same thing for you. You're rising these doctors up around you. You're bringing your team up with you. And I think it's so beautiful to see. So I'm just really proud of both of you. And it's like, it's just such a fun thing to be able to give back to both of you and to just highlight how many amazing things you have. My last question for us tonight is where you're wrapping up is what's next? Like what's next on the radar? Like business-wise, personal-wise, like we built this, we had this vision, but I believe like if we stop dreaming and we stop evolving, then we stop growing as well. It does not have to be large, Andrew. You don't have to have like a huge next, like we're building ⁓ a city. I could see you coming up to that big, all right, Jeff, we're like build our own city now. But like what's next? Like what's in the next like one, two, five years? What's it looking like for your practice, for each other, where you guys at? And I'll let anybody take this on. What's next for you guys? Jeff & Andrew (18:21) Yeah, well, think for, well, I did want to say one more thing about ⁓ inspiring leaders, because I we were talking about associates. But another thing that I have to always bring up is my mom was a single mom, four kids, because you were talking about ⁓ our parents earlier. And so single mom, four kids. She was also a dental assistant. So I think I grew up around dentistry. I grew up with a mom that wasn't making a lot of money for what she did. So I appreciate so much our team and my assistants. I don't leave a room without thanking them for what they did in front of the patient. So that's probably the most important thing I've taught ⁓ our associate is to always be thankful for the people that are helping you do what you do. So I think living every day and coming into work with that mentality is super helpful. So I wanna keep that. Kiera Dent (19:08) that and I'm also gonna say Jeff you had no hope when you met Andrew there was no hope for you to get out of dentistry like mom, family, his life, if you were destined for dentistry when you and Andrew met so I love that I'm like wow now hearing your mom I was like ⁓ he he saw you from a mile away not only did he like fall in love with you but he's like ⁓ this his life to be changed forever Jeff & Andrew (19:12) Yeah, I know. Yeah. I should have saw that coming. Yeah, he was. He's going right in. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think my, my next goal will be to help us find a new associate. So our daughter parks and I both are super busy now or both feeling like, gosh, it would be really nice to be able to take some time off and not feel like we're putting the other one in our tough pickle. You know? So we also have a lot of great things to teach our next associate and, ⁓ I think what used to scare our team is to think about that growth. And now our team feels empowered to be like, we're not so sure about that person. They speak up and they're our guardians. So I think what's really cool is like, I've kind of let some of this go and now I get to really focus on my dentistry and learning more and what can I improve? What do we wanna bring into the office to offer more patients or how can we be better every day? So, yeah. Kiera Dent (20:18) Amazing. I love that. Okay, that's what it's on for Andrew. Jeff, what about for you? What's next for Jeff's world? Jeff & Andrew (20:24) a vacation in two weeks. We got one planned. got do. We do. Yes. It's our first two week vacation ever in my life. I'm really nervous. Yeah. Kiera Dent (20:26) Yeah, where you wanna go? Like be so excited. You should listen to all the other podcasts. I'm always like, owners, we need leave because if you don't leave, can't find the gaps in your practice. So like, this is the best thing to do. So don't freak out, Andrew. Just realize you're doing your business the best service. You're leaving. You can see the gaps. You can fix them when you come home. Yeah. That's how I justify it. like, no, the business needs me to leave, obviously. Jeff & Andrew (20:39) Yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like it. Yes, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I feel excited now because I can see people knowing that we're leaving. Everybody's making sure everybody they're looking ahead at the schedule. They're making sure I get people in that I want to see Megan. Sure, everything's going to be OK. And it's just awesome. I used to stress so much about taking a day off and then now to know like we're about to take two weeks off. It's really amazing. Kiera Dent (21:19) Amazing. Okay. Well, I think that's good. Just like we need this. I need this. You need to shut it off and we're not talking about history. Jeff & Andrew (21:25) I wouldn't do it without. I wouldn't have done it without him. That's another big thing, right? So he's pushed me. I'm like, Jeff, are we okay to do this? Like, that's another thing I probably would not have said to I know I need to write. So you kind of need those people to help kind of make you see the other side and say, okay, we're okay. And we do need it. And everyone has told me that like, I know you're thinking you don't need it or that you are going to stress out, but you're going to come back so invigorated and so excited. Kiera Dent (21:49) always tell everybody the best things I do for my business are when I do what I call white noise time. And I check out what I do, Andrew and Jeff, you guys might take my tip. I literally don't turn my phone on at all. So like no one can connect me. If I go out of the country, I do not connect to wifi. It's a smidge creepy for my family. So like Jason usually turns it on. And then I get angry for about two days. So I'm like detoxing of having like everything. And I'm like mad at Jason. I feel like I'm putting time out. I feel so angry that I've just got to sit here and read a stupid book. Jeff & Andrew (22:06) Hahaha! ⁓ Yeah. You Kiera Dent (22:20) once the adrenaline's gone, I'm like, ⁓ and then my best ideas actually show up. So, better or for worse, get ready, Jeff. He'll probably come home with like million ideas, but, and you should probably have alarms that like you're only allowed to talk down the street for like one hour a day. Like that's it, because of course it'll like come up, but it's also shocking when I did that last summer, Jason and I, took a whole month off and I'm like, Jeff & Andrew (22:25) Weird. Yeah, that's awesome. Probably. Kiera Dent (22:44) I don't actually know what to talk to you about if we don't talk dentistry. So I had to like, refine myself, refine our relationship of like, what do we do beyond dentistry? This is helpful. So anyway, okay, going on a week trip, where are going? Jeff & Andrew (22:47) I We're going to Sweden for two weeks. Yeah, we're excited. Kiera Dent (22:58) I'm so ⁓ Jeff & Andrew (23:04) I that. I'll be too. For like a minute. Be prepared. Yeah. So I think we there's a there's something we want to do internally that we've been kind of mulling over and kind of taking a couple steps to we brought somebody on that I think we can actually elevate and help create this. So it's a it's a younger team member and he's got really good skills ⁓ with the lane that we want. him to go down. So we kind of want to empower him to build this, ⁓ not for us, but with us, ⁓ and kind of create this position for himself. And kind of, it would be job sustainability, know, and have him, elevate him to build a team under him as well. ⁓ At the same time, you know, we want to Kiera Dent (23:57) Yeah. Totally. Jeff & Andrew (24:14) We need to fill the rest of our building. We've, ⁓ we're working with some nonprofits. brought one in, we have two more suites to go. And, ⁓ so I want to continue that and make sure, ⁓ one thing that we're not like putting for lease signs out there. want to make sure that, you know, serves our vision and serves the community, the people that come in. and we were also, you know, we have our own building to create something. So I don't know, there's a lot. Kiera Dent (24:45) amazing. I do too. I need to... I was gonna say this is where you need the vacation Andrew and Jeff so you like shut it down all the great but I my best idea the podcast literally came when I was hiking Half Dome Yosemite like I'm not even talking about work and I was like this is a great idea I should do that so here we are like five years later but Jeff & Andrew (24:45) I see a lot in the future. All good things. Lots of dreamings needed. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, yeah They're kind of like just waiting and I think you're right I think this little white noise period could just be like, there they all are. I totally agree Kiera Dent (25:14) It really happens. It's weird. And I feel like as owners, we are in such a grind, like we don't know how to shut it off. But when we do, I'm like, that's when the best ideas show up. Like best ideas hit us in like when we wake up in the morning or when we're in the shower or when we're on a run or when we're on a hike or, I'm like, okay, so clearly I need to schedule more of that in consistently. So that way my best ideas can show up and we can keep evolving. But guys, you should be so proud of yourself. Like go enjoy that vacation. I'm so excited for you to go to Sweden. the chocolate, please. mean, you hear it. But, ⁓ but no, just as as someone who's watched you evolve, I hope you guys just take in like, the kudos. I hope everybody listening, you're hearing like how they went through this, how they built their vision. And the thing I think I really glean from today's podcast are one, you two really lean on each other as a very safe duo of you two trust each other. You're in your lanes, you allow each other to be experts, you allow the like, nerdiness of either side to come out and you love that about the other person. Also like really being true to yourselves, to your vision and building an entire team around you. I think so many people are scared to be themselves. And Jeff, thank you for sharing like agreed being gay, being different, having a different maybe, especially with the town you're in. I think that that was probably a big step and leap for you, but to stay true to who you are and you'll find that you will attract your tribe. You'll attract in the people that want to be a part of it ⁓ and not being afraid to share that. So I'm just so proud of you guys. I am so grateful you came on. It was so fun to highlight you, to share about you. Are there any last things you guys wanna leave as we wrap up today? I'll start with Jeff first. Last thoughts, anything you wanna add to today? Jeff & Andrew (26:48) Yeah, I just want to make sure that ⁓ you, Dental A team and Tiffany are really recognize, like understand your value because at every step of the way, you guys were always there for us. I could pick up the phone, Tiffany will pick it, she'll answer. It could be about plumbing. It could be about team. It could be about operations. You guys are always there for us consistently every step of the way. If you don't have an answer. You know, we brainstorm and we are like, okay, or you'll find it. You know, it's, I couldn't thank you guys enough. You did. I tell you every time, but it's true. You guys changed my life, both of our lives, honestly, ⁓ for the better. And we wouldn't be here today if we didn't have your encouragement, your support, and your backing behind us this whole time. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you, Kiara. Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you, Den-L-A team. Yes, thank you, Tiffany. Thank you. Thank you both for everything. Tell a team we were like so it like a pretty shit for you guys here. Like I remember we were talking about earlier meeting senior on the plane, giving you the brownie brittle. And I think I go back to like our first couple meetings and I I think you guys were like the first. No, you were the first that helped us not just see like when we were doing like team meetings about dentistry. It also was how does this relate to your personal? Kiera Dent (27:46) Thank you. Jeff & Andrew (28:15) And I think that's where the that could have been the switch you were asking about earlier. Sorry, it took me this long to realize that's what I love. That was the switch because it went from like, what can I teach you about dentistry to like, how can we all just live better lives? How can we come to work and be happy? How can you go home and use what you're learning here with your your house? And I think every time Tiffany comes in, we talk sometimes more about personal things going on at home and how this relates to work. And it's really just made that our culture. And I think whether it's me and my weight loss, that's something too. lost 90 pounds three years or four years ago now. that's, thank you. And that's kind of led to like we did a whole weight loss program with our whole staff. Like we learned nutrition and like we made things not about just dentistry, but like how we all can just live better lives. And I think that's really what's kind of just blown us up. So thank you so much for all of that. Kiera Dent (28:48) look amazing, Andrew, like, amazing. proud mama over here and just huge like thank you because to hear clients, to hear people that we didn't know prior to dentistry, like dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and to hear that you're thriving, that you are these amazing humans that are fulfilled, that is what we want. We don't want just dentistry. Like I said dentistry is our platform, life is our passion and so And like, Andrew, I saw you I was like, my gosh, you look like so great. And Jeff, you just look vibrant and you've gone through so many pieces and yet you're still smiling. You're still happy. You still, like you said, it's life. This is what it is. And we just get lucky enough to find each other through dentistry. So thank you for being a part of our family. Tiff's been incredible. And I'm just excited for like the next level and to continue to watch you guys flourish. Like I said, my biggest passion is making the best people have the best lives and truly win. So thanks for being on the podcast. I appreciate it. Jeff & Andrew (29:56) Thank you. Kiera Dent (29:57) you. ⁓ Jeff & Andrew (29:58) Thank you for having us. Kiera Dent (30:00) of course. And for all of you listening, I hope you were inspired today by Jeff and Andrew. They're people that have inspired me and I hope you saw yourself through the writing in the fabric of their story to see the things that are possible from Jeff not feeling like he even knew how to be into dentistry to running this huge practice and inspiring people to Andrew growing and evolving and bringing on things that he never thought were possible. I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast. Jeff & Andrew (30:32) Thank you.
A new development has emerged in the case against Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the 2022 murders of four University of Idaho students. A woman, identified only as "MM" in court documents, claims she was the DoorDash driver who delivered food to victim Xana Kernodle shortly before the killings occurred. In bodycam footage from a September 2024 DUI stop in Pullman, Washington, she states, "I'm the DoorDash driver. I saw Bryan there. I parked right next to him." This statement suggests she may have witnessed Kohberger near the crime scene on the night of the murders. The authenticity of this claim is supported by DoorDash delivery records and surveillance footage placing Kohberger's vehicle in the vicinity around the time of the crime.However, the woman's credibility could be challenged due to her arrest for driving under the influence of prescription medication during the same incident. Despite this, her statement has garnered attention as a potentially significant piece of evidence in the case. Prosecutors may seek to introduce her testimony to establish a timeline of events leading up to the murders, while the defense may attempt to discredit her account. The trial is scheduled to begin in August 2025, with jury selection starting in late July. As the proceedings unfold, this new witness could play a pivotal role in the case against Kohberger.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Bryan Kohberger murder case: Potential witness appears to say she saw him at the scene, police video shows | CNNBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Hey HBs! The wonderful Jaime P. Bradley is here to help Mel recap the movie Muriel's Wedding! It may not be a romance, but it's got a stupidly-talented Toni Collette, wild coming-of-age antics, and lots of LADY LOVE!!!! Content Warnings: Cancer diagnosis and treatment, suicide of a parent. Check out Jaime's books! https://jaimepbradley.com/the-books/ and follow her on Tiktok and Instagram! Want more of us? Check out our PATREON! This Friday Patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers are getting a squeepisode on the last book in The Games We Play in Granville series, SEVEN MINUTES IN KEVIN by DJ Jamison! Thank you for keeping Mel sane, fluffy MM romance authors! Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz Art: Author Kate Prior Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail Follow our socials: Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more.
A new development has emerged in the case against Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the 2022 murders of four University of Idaho students. A woman, identified only as "MM" in court documents, claims she was the DoorDash driver who delivered food to victim Xana Kernodle shortly before the killings occurred. In bodycam footage from a September 2024 DUI stop in Pullman, Washington, she states, "I'm the DoorDash driver. I saw Bryan there. I parked right next to him." This statement suggests she may have witnessed Kohberger near the crime scene on the night of the murders. The authenticity of this claim is supported by DoorDash delivery records and surveillance footage placing Kohberger's vehicle in the vicinity around the time of the crime.However, the woman's credibility could be challenged due to her arrest for driving under the influence of prescription medication during the same incident. Despite this, her statement has garnered attention as a potentially significant piece of evidence in the case. Prosecutors may seek to introduce her testimony to establish a timeline of events leading up to the murders, while the defense may attempt to discredit her account. The trial is scheduled to begin in August 2025, with jury selection starting in late July. As the proceedings unfold, this new witness could play a pivotal role in the case against Kohberger.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Bryan Kohberger murder case: Potential witness appears to say she saw him at the scene, police video shows | CNN
Could This Witness Change The Whole Case? #kohberger #Doordash #Idaho 4 case Could the door dash driver put the most powerful eyewitness in this prosecution against Bryan Kohberger? MM as the door dash driver is called saw Bryan kohberger in front of 1122 King Road on 11/13/22 in the early morning hours.
True grit? Not the movie or book, but a real live individual. I met Laura Bratton about a month ago and realized that she was a very unique individual. Laura was referred to me by a gentleman who is helping both Laura and me find speaking venue leads through his company. Laura is just ramping up her public speaking career and our mutual colleague, Sam Richter, thought I could be of help. Little did I know at the outset that not only would I gain an excellent podcast guest, but that I would find someone whose life parallelled mine in many ways. Laura Bratton began losing her eyesight at the age of nine years. Like me, she was one of the lucky ones who had parents who made the choice to encourage their daughter and help her live her life to the fullest. And live it she does. Laura attended public school in South Carolina and then went to Arizona State University to secure her bachelor's degree in Psychology. Why ASU? Wait until you hear Laura tell that story. After securing her degree in Psychology she moved to the Princeton School of Divinity where she secured a Master's degree in Divinity. She followed up her Master's work by serving in a chaplaincy program in Ohio for a year. Then, if all that wasn't enough, she became a pastor in the United Methodist Church and took a position in South Carolina. She still works part time as a pastor, but she also has taken some other exciting and positive life turns. As I mentioned earlier, she is now working to build a public speaking career. She also does one-on-one coaching. In 2016 she wrote her first book. Laura shares many poignant and relevant life lessons she has learned over the years. We talk about courage, gratitude and grit. I asked her to define grit which she does. A very interesting and good definition indeed. I often get the opportunity to have guests on this podcast who share life and other lessons with all of us. To me, Laura's insights are as relevant as any I have encountered. I hope you will feel the same after listening to our conversation. Please let me know what you think. You can email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com. About the Guest: At the age of nine, Laura was diagnosed with an eye disease and faced the difficult reality that she would become blind. Over the next ten years she experienced the traumatic transition of adjusting to life without sight. Laura adjusted to her new normal and was able to move forward in life as she graduated from Arizona State University with a BA in psychology. She then was the first blind student to receive her Masters of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary. She is the author of the book, Harnessing Courage. Laura founded Ubi Global, which is an organization that provides speaking and coaching to empower all people to overcome challenges and obstacles with grit and gratitude. Ways to connect with Dr. Laura: Link for LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/laura-bratton-speaking Website https://www.laurabratton.com/ Link for coaching page on website https://www.laurabratton.com/coaching Link for book on website https://www.laurabratton.com/book Link for speaking page on website https://www.laurabratton.com/speaking About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well and a gracious hello to you, wherever you happen to be on our planet today, I am your host, Michael Hinkson, and you are listening to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet, and we sort of get to tie several of those together today, because my guest, Laura Bratton happens to be blind, so that brings inclusion into it, and we could talk about diversity all day. The experts really tend to make that a challenge, but we can talk about it ourselves, but Laura is blind, and she's going to tell us about that, and I don't know what else, because that's the unexpected part of this, but we're going to have ourselves a lot of fun for the next hour. She knows that the only rule of the podcast is you got to have fun, and you can't do better than that. So Laura, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Laura Bratton ** 02:12 Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. I'm excited. Michael Hingson ** 02:15 Well, this will be some fun, I'm sure, which is, of course, what it's all about. Well, why don't we start by you telling us kind of about the early Laura, growing up and all that, and anything about that that you think we ought to know that'll help us as we go forward. Laura Bratton ** 02:31 So the early Laura was, Michael Hingson ** 02:34 you know, that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But yeah, Laura Bratton ** 02:38 was was fearless. Was involved in so many different activities, and I didn't have any health concerns or vision problems. And then around the age of nine, after the summer, after my second grade school year, my parents started noticing she's just holding books a little bit closer. She's just sitting a little bit closer to the TV than normal, than usually. So my they decided we'll just make a regular pediatric ophthalmology appointment, take her to the doctor, get the doctor to check her out. You know, if you need glasses, that's fine, and we'll just move on with our our summer and prepare for a new school year. So that June, when I had that doctor's appointment, my eyes were dilated. I'd read the the letters on the chart in the room. The doctors had looked in my eyes, and then the doctor just rolled back in his chair and looked at my mom and said, there's a major problem going on, and we need to address this, and I'm going to send you to a retina specialist. There's something major going on with her retinas. So from that appointment that started the rest of the summer and into the fall of just having doctors, different doctors appointments, meeting with specialists, trying to figure out why this 910, year old was all of a sudden having vision problems. Michael Hingson ** 04:20 So yeah, go ahead that, Laura Bratton ** 04:22 yeah. So that started the whole vision loss journey, Michael Hingson ** 04:27 and what was the diagnosis that they finally came up with? Laura Bratton ** 04:31 So they finally came up with a diagnosis of rare retinal onset disease. So it's not genetic. It wasn't like another accident, physical accident that calls the blindness. It's most similar to macular. So what I was losing first was my central vision. I still had all my peripheral vision, so it's very similar to macular, but not. Not quite macular or star guards. What's happens in children? So that's the diagnosis, just rare retinal disease. Michael Hingson ** 05:11 Interesting, and they they didn't have any idea that what caused it. Do they have any better idea today? Or is it just so rare that they don't tend to pay a whole lot of attention. Great Laura Bratton ** 05:23 question, yes and yes. So I've done a lot of genetic testing over the years, and the gene has not been discovered. That is obviously what they are predicting, is that there had to be some kind of gene mutation. But that gene hasn't been discovered. So far, the genes that are identified with vision problems, those have not been the problem for me so far. So the gene, Gene hasn't been discovered. So testing continues, but not exactly sure yet. Michael Hingson ** 05:59 Yeah. So do you have any eyesight left, or is it all gone? Laura Bratton ** 06:04 I don't, so to continue kind of that process of of the the early childhood. So I was diagnosed around nine, but I didn't lose any major vision until I was in middle school. So the end of middle school is when I started to lose a significant part of sight. So I went from very quickly from roller print, large print, to braille, and that was a very quick transition. So basically it was normal print to learning Braille and using Braille and textbooks and Braille and audio books and all that. Then through high school, I will throw more a significant amount of vision. So what I have currently is just very limited light perception, no, what I consider no usable vision, just light perception, Michael Hingson ** 06:55 so you learn braille. So you learn braille in middle school. Then, yes, okay, absolutely. What did you think about that? Because that was certainly a life change for you. How did you deal with all of that? Laura Bratton ** 07:10 How did I do with the process of learning braille or the emotional process? 07:14 Both, Laura Bratton ** 07:16 they're kind of related, so both, they're very much related. So learning Braille was incredibly difficult because I was trying to learn it at the same time. Use it with textbooks in middle school level material rather than normal development. Of you learn braille and start out, you know, with with simple books, and slowly move up. I try, you know, I had to make that adjustment from learning Braille and then algebra in Braille or Spanish and Braille. So using the Braille was very difficult, but I was because I was forced to to learn it, because I had to, just to stay in school. You didn't really have a choice. As far as the emotional perspective. My first thoughts was just the denial, oh, it's not that bad, oh, it won't be forever. Oh, it's not going to get much worse than this. Just that denial of the reality. And then I can say more, if it just kind of that whole how that whole process unfolded, that's kind of the whole emotional process. It Michael Hingson ** 08:34 certainly was a major change for you, yes, but it sounds like by the time all was said and done, and you did have to immerse yourself, like in learning Braille and so on. So it was an immersive kind of thing. You, You did come through it, and you, you seem to be functioning pretty well today, I would gather Laura Bratton ** 08:55 Yes, because of focusing on the emotional mindset piece. So once that I've sort of began to move out of denial. It was that, okay, well, I can't this is just too hard. And then what I eventually realized and accepted was, yes, it's hard and I can move forward. So just a practical example, is what you were saying about having to be fully immersed in the Braille. Yes, is really hard to jump from learning braille to knowing Braille and algebra. But also choose to move forward. As you said, I choose to immerse myself in this so that I can continue life, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 09:42 and you you have done it. Well, how? How do you view blindness today? Laura Bratton ** 09:49 That is a great question. So today is the balance of acknowledging. Yes, they're difficult moments. Yes, their stressful moments. Moments, and I have the resources to process that. So now, rather than just being a denial or being stuck in that I can't do this, I can say, okay, yes, this is hard. Yes, I am frustrated. Yes, I am overwhelmed in this moment, but also I can move forward with the gifts and purposes that I have in this world and using that as a strength. So for me, it's that acknowledging the rap the reality, but also moving forward with that belief in myself, trust in myself. Michael Hingson ** 10:39 So how long did you at the beginning really grieve and view all this in a negative way? Because it sounds like you've evolved from that today. Laura Bratton ** 10:53 Absolutely. So in my experience, the so I'm going to break the grief and the negative apart, because for me, it was two different experiences. So for me in those middle school, high school days, it was more than negative, and the grief just came along with that. Now even, you know, through college and even now, yes, there are moments that I grieve, but that negativity has turned into the mindset of strength, the mindset of trust, the mindset of okay, I can continue forward Again, living out those purposes, my purpose with those gifts as a source of strength, the source of courage. It's a source of just belief in myself. So my experience now is the mindset of holding both intention, holding space for both when I have those moments that I need to grieve, absolutely, giving myself those space and then at the same time, choosing to move forward with that courage, rather than being stuck in what I was in middle school of that negativity. Does that difference? Does that make us make sense of what I'm trying to separate the two? Michael Hingson ** 12:19 Well, yeah, they overlap, but I understand what you're saying, Where, where and how were your parents in all of this? Laura Bratton ** 12:28 So that was the incredible gift, that that was a deep source of strength, that as that middle school child who was in that negative place of denial and I can't, I can't. That was the source of strength. So immediately, when I was diagnosed, even though I didn't have major vision loss, I was diagnosed in elementary school, they wanted to send me to school for the deaf and blind, and so my parents had to fight to keep me in regular school. Again, I wasn't experiencing major vision loss, but just having minor vision loss, the school said, Okay, you're at a public school and going to a different school. So my parents were a source of strength, because they knowledge what was happening, what was going to happen, but also held me to the same standards. Michael Hingson ** 13:25 And there are some schools, I don't know how much today, but in the past, there were some schools for the blind, and I'm not sure about schools for the deaf and blind, but we'll put them in the same category. But there were some schools that really did have very high standards, and and did do a great job. The Perkins School was one. Tom Sullivan, the actor, went through Perkins and and I know other people who did, but in general, the standards weren't the same, and I had the same issue. I remember my parents. We were in the office of the school principal of Yucca school where I went kindergarten through third grade here in California, okay, and I remember a shouting match between my father and my mother on one side, and Mr. Thompson, the principal on the other. And by the time all was said and done, he decided that it was he was going to acquiesce, because they were not going to let me go to the school for the blind, which would have been like, 400 miles away. Laura Bratton ** 14:38 Okay, okay, so, so you can relate to that experience. Michael Hingson ** 14:42 I can absolutely relate to that experience, and I think that it's for kids one of the most important things to hope comes along that parents deal with blindness in a in a positive way. Yes, and don't view it as something that's going to hold you back. I. 100% Yeah, because if they do, then that creates a much more difficult situation. Yes. So it's it's great that you had some parents who really stood up for you and helped as you went Laura Bratton ** 15:15 Yes, and I was also deeply grateful that they all they held those standards at school, and they also held those standards at home. So they didn't just say, oh, you know, our expectations are lower for you at home, you don't have any more chores. You just kind of do whatever you want, get away with whatever you want. They kept those things standards. I still had chores we just made, you know, the accommodations are adapted if we needed to adapt anything. Yeah, a story that I always, always remember, just like you talking about you vividly remember being in that principal's office. I remember one day my the specific tour was unloading the dishwasher, and I remember thinking, well, oh, I'm not really, I don't really want to unload the dishwasher today. So I just kind of thought, Oh, the blindness will get me out of the situation. So I was like, Mom, I can't unload the dishwasher. I can't see exactly where to put all the silverware in the silverware of her door. And I still, I can still see this in my mind's eye. She was standing in the doorway the kitchen and the hallway, and she just turned around and just said, Laura, unload the dishwasher, put the silverware in the drawer, and just walked away. And that told me she was still holding me to the exact standards. She wasn't saying, Oh, honey, that's okay because of your blindness. Yeah, you don't have to do it. That was such a huge teaching moment for me, because it pulled me I can't use my blindness as an excuse. That was incredible experience and I always think back on and remember, Michael Hingson ** 17:04 yeah, and I remember growing up, there were chores I did, there were chores My brother did, and there were things that we had to do, but we had, and my brother was cited two years older than I, but okay, but we had very supportive parents for both of us. And one of the things that the doctors told my parents when they discovered that I was blind, was that I was going to take all the love that the family had, even for my older sibling. Oh, my parent and my parents said that is just not so, and they worked really hard to make sure that my brother got all the things that that he needed and all the support that he needed as well. Wow. When he was still in high school, I remember they got him a car, and I don't remember when he got it. Maybe, I don't know whether he was already a senior in high school, but he got a car. And, you know, I didn't want a car. I right. I didn't want that, but, you know, that was okay. I would have driven it around if I got one, but, you know, that's okay, but, but parents are such an important part of the process, yes, and they have to be ready to take the leap, yes, that blindness isn't the problem. It's attitudes. That's really, that tend to really be the problem, right? 100% Laura Bratton ** 18:24 and thankfully, thankfully, I had that. I had that experience another, another example that I always think of all the time, still such a vivid memory, is as as a family. We were a big sports family, and loved to go to different sporting events, and so we would always go to high school and college football games. And as I was in those middle school, high school years, those first, early days of experiencing difficult vision loss, where obviously I'm sitting in the sands and can't see the field clearly, rather than my parents saying, Oh, you're just going to stay home. Oh, you're not going with us. To be part of this, my dad are really, literally. Remember my dad saying, Here's a radio. I just put new batteries in. Let's go. So I would just sit there and, you know, with with my family, listening to the game on the radio. And that was such a gift, because, again, they didn't say, is what you're saying about the leap. They didn't say, okay, you can do this anymore. They just figured out a way to adapt so that I was still part. Michael Hingson ** 19:34 Yeah, I've been to a number of baseball games, and the same thing, I've never been I've been to a high school football game, but I've never been to a pro football game, and I've never been to a basketball game, and while I think it would have been fun, I'm a little bit spoiled, and I think that the announcers today aren't as good as the announcers that we used to have, like Dick Enberg doing sports out here, who did. Football chick, Hearn, who did basketball, who could talk as fast as, I mean, he was, he was he taught me how to listen fast. That's great. He he talked as fast as many times books I read talk. He was just incredible. But that's okay. But still, I've been to games, and it is a lot of fun to be able to go and listen. It's even if you're listening on the radio, the point of being at the game is just the sounds and the experience of being at the game and hearing and interacting with all the sounds, because you're not hearing that as much through the radio as you are listening to the fans as they yell, or as the Yes, as the foul balls coming at you. You know, yes 100% Laura Bratton ** 20:50 and just to feel the energy, you know, and your team's doing well, your team's not doing well, just to feel that energy, and there's to also to be there and have that, that fun experience with your family or friends, or you know, whoever you're with, that is such a fun experience. So yes, Michael Hingson ** 21:08 so when you went into high school, did, what did you study? Or what did you do there? Laura Bratton ** 21:15 What were your interests? So in college, when I Michael Hingson ** 21:18 was thinking high school, but you can do college. So Laura Bratton ** 21:21 High School, honestly, I didn't have specific professional interests, because it was just so much focused on the blind surviving and all the surviving, just the New Black, because the blindness was literally happening during high school, right? So my only focus was just survival passing because it was all of my energy was focused on the the learning Braille and just completing the assignments. Fast forward to college. My focus was definitely. My major was psychology. My focus was on psychology. A lot because of my personal experience, because of that experience in high school, and just that that not only that desire from my personal experience, but just using that experience to then help and support others from the mindset of of again, moving through that, that negativity to that, that foundation of grit. So it was definitely focused on psychology to be able to support others from a mindset perspective. Michael Hingson ** 22:36 So how did you bring that into play in college? Laura Bratton ** 22:40 So that was my focus. My My major was psychology, and then I I spent that, those years in college, figuring out specifically what area of psychology I wanted to focus on, which what, what facet of psychology I wanted my focus to be so that was, that was the purpose of the like psychology and taking different classes within psychology to try to figure out where my strengths within that Major Michael Hingson ** 23:16 and what did you discover? Laura Bratton ** 23:20 So what I discovered was I wanted the psychology to the mindset, to support people with to be that holistic perspective of, yes, the psychology, but also the spiritual connection and just our physical well being all connected together, so supporting our healthy mindsets and emotional health was not just psychology. It was the psychology, physical taking care of ourselves and the spiritual taking care of ourselves, all connected, combined together. So that's that's what led me to doing a master of divinity to be able to focus on and learn the spiritual part Michael Hingson ** 24:15 of the mindset. So what part of psychology Did you eventually settle on Laura Bratton ** 24:22 the holistic approach. So rather than just focus on specifically the mindset, focusing on us as a whole, being, supporting us through that mental, physical, spiritual connection that the healing, the empowerment came through, through all of that. So in that masters, what I focus on specifically was chaplaincy, so supporting people specifically I was a hospital chaplain, so focusing on helping people within the hospital setting, when they're there for different physical reasons and. Being able to be that spiritual presence focusing on both the spiritual and the emotional. Michael Hingson ** 25:07 And where did you do your undergraduate study? Laura Bratton ** 25:11 So I did my undergrad at Arizona State, and I was going to say a large reason, but not just a large reason, pretty much the whole reason I chose ASU was for their disability resources. So a major focus that that they emphasize is their disability resources is not a separate part of the university, but it's completely integrated into the university. So what I mean by that example of that is being a psychology major. I still had all the same classes. I was still in all the same classes as all the other psychology students on campus. I just had the accommodations that I needed. So that would be double time all testing or note takers, if I needed note takers in a class. So they did an incredible job, like they had a whole Braille lab that would print Braille books and provide books in PDF format. So the accommodations that I needed as a person who was blind were integrated in to the whole college experience. So that was incredibly powerful for me as a person who had just become blind and didn't know what resources were available. Michael Hingson ** 26:37 Did you have any major challenges and major issues in terms of dealing with blindness and so on, while you're at ASU, Laura Bratton ** 26:44 not at all. I am so grateful for that, because I wasn't the only person on campus who was blind. I wasn't the first blind person. I certainly wasn't the last so because they had so much experience, it was, it was an incredible, again, empowerment for me, because on the emotional perspective, it taught me, and literally practically showed me, yes, I give me a person with a disability and be integrated into the world, because They they showed me the resources that were available. So I was deeply, deeply grateful for what they taught me. Now, where did you grow up? So I grew up in South Carolina, Michael Hingson ** 27:31 so that is and that's why I wanted to ask that, because we hadn't mentioned that you were from South Carolina before, but that was a major undertaking. Then to go all the way across country to go to ASU, yes. On the other hand, they do have a pretty good football team. Laura Bratton ** 27:49 Just say Right, right, right Michael Hingson ** 27:52 now, my I went to University California, Irvine. I don't even know. I'm sure they must have some sort of a football team today, but they do have a pretty good basketball team, and I haven't heard whether they won the Big West, but I haven't Yeah, but I haven't heard that they did. So I'm afraid that that they may not have until going to march madness. Yeah, but whatever, Laura Bratton ** 28:21 team for March Madness spell your bracket in a different way. Michael Hingson ** 28:25 Well, they've been in the big dance before they got to the Sweet 16 once, which was pretty cool. Wow, that's impressive. Yeah, that was pretty cool. That's so cool. What did your parents think of you going across country Laura Bratton ** 28:42 again? Just like you talked about your parents being that taking that leap, they were incredibly supportive, because they knew ASU would provide the resources that I needed. Because again, in those years as I'm losing a major part of my sight, we didn't know other people who are blind. We didn't know what resources were available. Obviously, my parents reach out to people around us, you know, to connect with people who are blind, to learn about that, but we didn't have a lot of experience with that. So what we knew, and what my parents were excited about was ASU would be a place that I can not only have that college experience, but be taught the resources. And one of the major resources was my disability coordinator, so my disability coordinator, who was in charge of of creating all my accommodations, she was also blind, and that was such a healing experience for me, because she became a mentor. She was blind since birth. She. And so obviously we had different experiences, where I was just newly blind. She had been blind, but still, she was an incredibly powerful resource and mentor of just telling me, teaching me, not just telling me through her words, but living through her actions, you still have a full life like you're you're still a few a full human like you. This life still goes on. So she just modeled that in the way that she lived. So she she was, I'm so grateful for her mentorship, because she was very real. She had minimized blindness. But also she told me and taught me and showed me there's still a full, great life ahead, Michael Hingson ** 30:53 which is really what all of us are trying to get the world to understand. Blindness isn't the end of the world. It's not the problem Laura Bratton ** 31:02 exactly, exactly, she literally modeled that, Michael Hingson ** 31:06 yeah, which was pretty cool. Well, then where did you go to get your Masters of divinity? Laura Bratton ** 31:11 So then I went to get my masters at Princeton Theological Seminary, and that was a completely different experience, because, where as you, was completely set up for people with disabilities in the master's program, they had not had someone come through their program who was blind. So in that experience, I had to advocate and be very, very clear on what my needs were, meaning what the accommodations were that I needed, and then advocate that to the administration, which that wasn't a gift, because ASU had given me the foundation of knowing what I needed, what the accommodations Were then available. And then Princeton gave me the opportunity to become my own advocate, to force me to speak up and say, These are my needs, and these are accommodations I have. With these accommodations, I can be an equal student, so I'm not asking, Hey, give me good grades because I'm blind, but make the accommodation so that I have my books and PDF so I have double time on the test. So that was just as healing and just as powerful, because it gave me the opportunity to advocate and become clear on my needs so that I could communicate those needs. So Michael Hingson ** 32:38 this is part of Princeton in New Jersey. Yes, so you were were in Jersey for a while, huh? Yes, Laura Bratton ** 32:45 I went from sunny weather to Michael Hingson ** 32:50 snowy weather. Well, you had some of that in South Carolina too, though, Laura Bratton ** 32:53 yes, true, but from undergrad, it was quite the change. Michael Hingson ** 32:58 Ah. But the real question is, when you were in New Jersey. Did you get to meet any members of the family? You know what I'm saying, the mob, Oh yes, absolutely being bada. Boom. Come on now, Laura Bratton ** 33:11 definitely, definitely, definitely, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, lot of local restaurants and Oh yes, Michael Hingson ** 33:21 oh yes. When we were building our home in New Jersey, my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and we decided that when we went to New Jersey, because I was going to be working in the city New York, we wanted to build a house, because it's cheaper to build an accessible home for somebody in a wheelchair. My wife then it is to buy a house and modify it so we wanted to build. And it turns out that the person who financed the building, we got a mortgage and all that without any difficulty, but we had to get somebody to build the house. And the realtors had people they worked with, the financier. Part of that was from a guy, well, let's just say his main business was, he was in the garbage business, and his last name was, was Pinto. So, you know, let's just say we know where he got his money. You know, Laura Bratton ** 34:18 yes, yes. I had several those experiences too. Yeah, the garbage business seems to be big in Jersey. It Michael Hingson ** 34:25 is big in Jersey, but, but, you know, but they were all, they were all very nice to us good. And so it really worked out well. It did. It all worked out. We had a wonderful home. The only difference between our house and the others around us is we had to include an elevator in the house, okay? Because we couldn't have a ranch style home. There wasn't room, and so we had to have and all the other homes in the development were two story homes, okay, but we had to have an elevator. So that was essentially about a $15,000 An uplift over what the House would have cost otherwise. But right again, you build it in so it's not that huge of a deal, Laura Bratton ** 35:06 right? That's perfect. So all your neighbors are jealous. Michael Hingson ** 35:10 Well, they didn't have the elevator. They didn't come and ride it much. So they didn't ask for their their their bigger challenges were, who's giving the biggest party at Christmas or Halloween? So we didn't participate in that, so we weren't we weren't a problem. 35:28 That's great, Michael Hingson ** 35:30 yeah, so you've talked about grit a couple times, so tell me about grit, because clearly that's important to you, Laura Bratton ** 35:39 yeah? So it's so important to me, because that was a main source of empowerment. So just as I talked about that negativity in the middle school high school, what grit helped me to do is take the overwhelming future that I was so fearful, I was extremely anxious as I looked at the whole picture everything ahead of me. So the grit came in and taught me. Grit is taking it day by day, moment by moment, step by step. So rather than looking at the whole picture and getting overwhelmed, the power of grit taught me all I need to do is trust myself for this next hour. All I need to do is trust in the support that my parents are giving me this next day. So breaking it down into manageable goals was the strength of the grit. So to break it down, rather than the whole future, Michael Hingson ** 36:49 I didn't ask, do you did you have any siblings? Do you have any siblings? Laura Bratton ** 36:53 Yeah, so I have one older brother. Okay, so Michael Hingson ** 36:57 how was he with you being that you were blind. Was he a good older protective brother who never let anybody near his sister? Laura Bratton ** 37:06 He was a good older protective brother in that he did exactly what my parents did in not having different expectations. Yeah, he so he's five years older. So when I'm 14, losing a significant amount of vision, or 15, losing a certain amount of division. He, you know, was 1920 doing great in college. So a perfect example of this connects with the grit he, he taught me, and again, not in word, not so much in words, but again, in those actions of we will figure this out. We don't know the resources that are available. We don't know exactly what the future looks like, but we as a family will figure this out. Me, as your older brother, our parents being our parents, we will figure it out day by day, step by step. And I remember a lot of people would ask my parents, what's her future, and then even ask my brother, what's her future? What's she gonna do? And they would honestly answer, we don't know, but as a family, we'll figure it out, and we'll provide the strength that she needs, and that's what I mean by the grit. So it wasn't, this is her future, and they just, you know, named it for being home with us, right? But it was, I don't know, but day by day, we'll have the grit to figure it out. So I'm glad you asked about my siblings, because that's a perfect example of how that grit came into play and was such a powerful source of strength. Michael Hingson ** 38:54 So what did you do after you got your master's degree? Laura Bratton ** 38:58 So after I got my master's degree, I then did a residency, just like I was talking about the chaplaincy. I did a residency specifically in chaplaincy to to complete that process of being a chaplain. So in that that was a year long process, and in that process, that was an incredible experience, because, again, it taught me, you are a complete human with gifts and talents. You just happen to be blind and need specific accommodations because of the blindness. So what I mean by that is, just as ASU gave me the resources regarding blindness, and just as Princeton gave me the gift to advocate for those resources, the experience in the chaplaincy taught me when I walked into a high. Hospital room and introduced myself as the chaplain on the unit. The patient didn't know, or didn't care how long I had been blind, or how did I make it on the unit? Or how did I know they wanted chaplain? They didn't care. They were just thankful and glad that I was there to serve them and be in that Chaplain role. So it was that's why it was empowering of healing to me, because it taught me not to focus so much on the blindness, but to view myself as that whole person, especially in that professional experience, so I can give endless examples of specifically how that, how, just the patient reaction taught me so much. Michael Hingson ** 40:49 Where did you do your chaplaincy? Laura Bratton ** 40:52 I did it at the Clinton clinic in Ohio. Oh, Michael Hingson ** 40:56 my goodness, you did move around. Now. What got you there? Speaking of snow in the winter, yeah, Laura Bratton ** 41:02 literally, I Yes, I can talk about that. And a lot of experiences there with snow, like effect snow is real. So they were very strong in their chaplaincy program and developing Kaplan's and also their Kaplan Z training was a focus that I wanted that holistic mind, body, spirit. It wasn't just spiritual or wasn't just psychological, it was the holistic experience of a whole person. So how wanting that to be my focus moving forward, that's where I chose to go to be able to focus on that. So again, it was such an incredible source of of healing through just through those patient interactions. Michael Hingson ** 41:58 Well, one of the things that is clear about you is you're not bitter about any of the things that have happened, and that, in reality, you are a person who appreciates and understands the concept of gratitude. Laura Bratton ** 42:11 Yes, yes. And specifically, let me go back to those high school days, and then I'll come back to the chaplain days, the way of the gratitude my focus started was not because I wanted gratitude, not because I chose to woke up, wake up one day and say, Oh, I'm so grateful for this blindness. But it all came through a mentor who said to me in those high school days, Laura, I want you to start writing down three things that you are grateful for each day and every day, I want you to write down three things that you're grateful for. So in my mind, my immediate reaction as a teenager, high schooler, was that's not good advice. I'm not sure you're a good mentor. I'm experiencing a major change in life, permanent life event. I don't know that there's a lot to be grateful for. So in my stubbornness, I said, Okay, I'm going to prove her wrong. So I started to think of the three things each day I was grateful for. And over the weeks that I did this, I then realized what she was teaching me, she was showing me. She wasn't asking me to be grateful for the blindness. She was asking me to recognize the gifts that the support that I had within the blindness. So, for example, the supportive parents, the older brother, who didn't make accommodations, or I mean, did make accommodations. Didn't lower expectations because of the blindness. So fast forward to the chaplaincy. I was incredibly grateful for all those patient experiences, because, again, it taught me to view myself as the whole person, not so hyper focused on the blindness. So one specific example that sticks out and was so clear to me is one day I had a patient request that one to see a chaplain, and I went in to this specific unit, and the so I walked in, my walked into the room, the patient took a look at my guide dog and me, and said, You're blind, like completely with this question or voice. And my thought was, well, I think so. I mean, that was this morning when I woke up, and so I said, Yes. And she said, Okay, then I'll, I'll share honestly with you how I'm doing and what I had learned, what I learned after my visit with her is she would not open up to the doctors, the nurses, the social workers, anyone who walked in the room. When I walked in the room and she didn't feel like she was being judged on her physical appearance, she was willing to open up and honestly share how she was feeling emotionally with her physical diagnosis. So that led that one conversation led to multiple visits where she could move forward in her healing emotionally because she was willing to open up and share and be honest with me as the chaplain. So that was an incredible situation of gratitude, because it taught me, yes, this is hard, yes, this is stressful. Yes, there are moments of being overwhelmed, and also their deep, deep moments that I am incredibly grateful for, that other people who are side sighted don't have that opportunity. Michael Hingson ** 46:36 One of the things that I talk about and think about as life goes on, is we've talked about all the accommodations and the things that you needed to get in order to be able to function. What we and most everyone, takes for granted is it's the same for sighted people. You know, we invented the electric light bulb for sighted people. We invented windows so they can look out. Yes, we invent so many things, and we provide them so that sighted people can function right. And that's why I say, in large part, blindness isn't the problem, because the reality is, we can make accommodations. We can create and do create alternatives to what people who can see right choose, and that's important for, I think, everyone to learn. So what did you do after your year of chaplaincy? Laura Bratton ** 47:39 So after my year of chaplaincy, after that incredible experience of just offering the patient care, I completed the part of the well after assorted in the master's program. But then after that, also completed my ordination in the Methodist Church. So I was appointed. I went to the process the ordination process, and then I was appointed to a local church back here in South Carolina. And again, with my focus on chaplaincy, my focus on patient care, I was appointed to that church for because what they needed most in the pastor the leader, was that emphasis on the pastoral care the mind, body, spirit connection. So as I became pastor, I was able to continue that role of what I was doing in the Kaplan see, of using both my professional experience as well as my personal experience of providing spiritual care to the members. So that was an incredible way. And again, that gratitude, it just I was so grateful that I could use those gifts of pastoral care, of chaplaincy to benefit others, to be a strength to others. Again, is that that whole person that that we Michael Hingson ** 49:13 are now? Are you still doing that today? Or what are you doing Laura Bratton ** 49:16 now? So I'm still I'm still there part time, okay, Michael Hingson ** 49:21 and when you're not there, what are you doing? Laura Bratton ** 49:23 I'm doing professional speaking, and it's all centered around my passion for that again, came when I was at Princeton, when I was doing the focus on chaplaincy, I became so passionate about the speaking to share my personal experience of the change I experienced, and also to empower others as they experience change, so not to be stuck in that. Negativity like we talked about in those middle school, high school days, but rather that everybody, regardless of the situation, could experience change, acknowledge it, and move forward with that balance of grit and gratitude. So that's my deep passion for and the reason for the speaking is to share that grit gratitude, as we all experience change. Michael Hingson ** 50:26 So what made you decide to begin to do public speaking that what? What was the sort of the moment or the the inspiration that brought that about, Laura Bratton ** 50:40 just that deep desire to share the resource that I'd experienced. So as I received so much support from family and community, is I had received that support of learning how to use the grit in the change, and then as I received the sport support of how to use the gratitude in the change, the reason for this, speaking and what made me so passionate, was to be able to empower others to also use this resource. So I didn't just want to say, okay, it worked for me, and so I'll just keep this to myself, but rather to use that as a source and empowerment and say, Hey, this has been really, really difficult, and here's how I can use the difficulty to empower others to support others. Michael Hingson ** 51:31 So how's that working for you? Laura Bratton ** 51:34 Great. I love, love, love supporting others as they go through that change. Because again, it comes back to the blindness. Is not not all we focus on, it's not all we think about, it's not all we talk about, it's not all we do, but being able to use that as a shrink to empower others. So just speaking to different organizations as they're going through change, and working with them speaking on that. How can they specifically apply the grit, the gratitude? How does that? What does that look like, practically, in their organization, in their situation? So I love it, because it takes the most difficult thing that I've been through, and turns it around to empower others. Michael Hingson ** 52:24 What do you think about the concept that so many people talk about regarding public speaking, that, Oh, I couldn't be a public speaker. I don't want to be up in front of people. I'm afraid of it, and it's one of the top fears that we constantly hear people in society have that is being a public speaker. What do you think about that? Laura Bratton ** 52:47 So two, two perspectives have helped me to process that fault, because you're right. People literally say that to me every day. How do you do that? I could never do that. I hear that every single day, all day, and what I've learned is when I focus on, yes, maybe it is the large audience, but focusing on I'm speaking to each person individually, and I'm speaking. I'm not just speaking to them, but I was speaking to serve them, to help again, that empowerment, to provide empowerment. So what I think about that is I don't focus on, oh my gosh. What are they going to think of me? I'm scared up here. Rather to have that mindset of, I'm here to share my life experiences so that they can be served and empowered to continue forward. So just shifting the mindset from fear to support fear to strength, that's that's how I view that concept of I could never do that, or that's my worst fear. Michael Hingson ** 54:01 So a lot of people would say it takes a lot of courage to do what you do, what? How do you define courageous or being courageous? Laura Bratton ** 54:08 Great question. That's a working, work in progress. So far, what I've learned over the years and again, this is a process. Not there wasn't just one moment where I said, Okay, now I'm courageous, and I'm courageous forever, or this is the moment that made me courageous, but how I understand it and how I process it now is for me and my experience courage is accepting and acknowledging the reality and then choosing to move forward with the grit, choosing to move forward with the gratitude. So holding both intention, both can be true, both I can acknowledge. Okay, this is difficult. Cult, and also I can also believe and know. I can have the grit moment by moment by moment. I can have the gratitude moment by moment by moment. So for me, courage is holding both intention the reality and what I mean by both is the reality of the blindness and reality of the frustration of people's faults, judgments. You know all that you can't do this. How can you do that without sight holding all of that at the same time as I have the support I need to move forward? So for me, Courage looks like acknowledging why I'm overwhelmed and then choosing at that same time to move forward with the support that I have. Mm, hmm. So again, that's what I mean by it's not just like one moment that, oh yeah, I'm gonna be courageous now forever, there's certainly a moment so I don't feel courageous, and that's okay. That's part of garbage. Just acknowledging that frustration and also choosing to move forward. So it's doing both it at the same time. Michael Hingson ** 56:10 We live in a world today where there is a lot of change going on, yes, and some for the good, some not for the good, and and all sorts of things. Actually, I was reading an article this morning about Michael Connolly, the mystery writer who, for four decades, has written mystery books. He's lived in Los Angeles. He had a wonderful house, and everything changed when the fires hit and he lost his home and all that. But he continues to to move forward. But what advice would you give? What kinds of things do you say to people who are undergoing change or experiencing change? Laura Bratton ** 56:52 I'm so glad you asked that, because I I didn't mention this in the grit so much of the grit that I experienced. So the advice I would give, or practically, what I do with someone that just what I did right before our we connected, was being being that grit for someone going through change. So in that, for example, in that speaking when I'm speaking to a group about the change they're experiencing, acknowledging, for them to acknowledge, let me be your grit. You might be overwhelmed. You might be incredibly fearful and overwhelmed by the future, by the task in front of you. So let me be the example of grit to to show you that there is support, there is courage, there is that foundation to be able to move forward. So that's my first advice, is just allowing others to be your grit when you don't feel like you had it, because, again, in those high school days and and even now days when I don't feel like I have any grit, any courage, and yet, I'll lean on the courage, the strength, the grit, of those around me so once they acknowledge and allow me to be their grit, and they their support through that change, then allowing them to slowly have that grit for themselves, and again reminding them, it's not an instant process. It's not an instant do these three steps and you'll have grit forever. But it's a continual process of grit and gratitude that leads us through the change, through the difficulty. Michael Hingson ** 58:46 Have you used the technique that that person that you talked about earlier in high school used when she asked you to write down every day three things that you were grateful for? Laura Bratton ** 58:56 Yes, absolutely, and the the funny part of that, what that makes me laugh is a lot of people have the exact same reaction I had when I present it to them. They immediately say, I'm not going to do that. That's no Why would I do that? They immediately think that is a horrible piece of advice. And how can I recommend? And I just, I don't say, Oh, well, just try it anyway. I just say, Well, okay, just try it and see. Just, just prove me wrong. And just like my experience, they try it and then a week or two days like, oh, that actually worked. I didn't think that would so, yeah, I'm so glad you said that, because that happens a lot. People said that is that doesn't make sense. Why are you telling me to be grateful in the midst of this overwhelming situation? So yes, great, great perspective that happens all the time. Michael Hingson ** 59:55 Well, we've been doing this now for about an hour, but before we wrap up, do you. Have any other advice that you want to pass on for people who are dealing with change or fearing change in their lives right now, Laura Bratton ** 1:00:08 the advice would be, take it step by step, moment by moment, rather than trying to navigate through the whole change at one time that's overwhelming, and that that's not the process that is most healing. So to trust in yourself, to trust that grit around you, and then just like, like you were saying, and ask me, and it doesn't seem like it'll work, but try the gratitude, try that three things every day you're grateful for, and just see what happens as you navigate through the change. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:52 And it really does work, which is the point? Laura Bratton ** 1:00:54 Which is the point? Right? Right? We don't think it's going to but it, it totally does Michael Hingson ** 1:00:59 well. Laura, I want to thank you for being with us. This has been absolutely wonderful and fun, and I hope that people who listen got and who watch it got a lot out of it. And you, you provided a lot of good expectation setting for people. And you, you've certainly lived a full life. We didn't mention we got us before you we we sign off. You're also an author, Laura Bratton ** 1:01:24 yes. So I wrote harnessing courage again, just like the reason I speak, I was so passionate about taking the grit and the gratitude that I use that was such a source of Empower for me, I wanted to tell my story and tell it through the perspective of grit and gratitude so that other people could also use it as a resource. So the book tells my story of becoming blind and adapting and moving forward, but through the complete expected perspective of the gratitude, how I didn't believe the gratitude would work, how I struggled with thinking, Oh, the gratitude is ridiculous. That's never going to be source of empowerment. Yet it was so. The purpose of the book, my hope, my goal for the book, is that people can read it and take away those resources as they face their own change their own challenges. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:30 And when did you write it? So I wrote Laura Bratton ** 1:02:33 it in it was published in 2016 Okay, so it that that definitely was, was my goal and passion, and that just writing the book was incredibly healing. Was like a great source of strength. Cool, Michael Hingson ** 1:02:50 well, I hope people will get it. Do you do any coaching today or Laura Bratton ** 1:02:54 Yes, so I do coaching as well as the speaking so the the one on one coaching, as people are experiencing difficult, difficult or just navigating through change, I do the one on one coaching as well as the speaking, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:11 which is certainly a good thing that chaplaincy taught you. Yes, 100% Well, thank you again for being here, and I want to thank all of you for being with us today, wherever you are. We would appreciate it. I would definitely appreciate it. If when you can, you go to wherever you're listening to or watching the podcast and give us a five star review. We absolutely value your reviews. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this, and I'm sure Laura would. So you're welcome to email me at Michael, M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear your thoughts. And also, of course, as I said, we'd love your your five star reviews, wherever you're listening. Also, if any of you, Laura, including you, have any thoughts of others who we ought to have on this podcast, we're always looking for more guests, and we really would appreciate it if you'd let anyone know who might be a good guest in your mind, that they can reach out or email me, and I'll reach out, but we really would appreciate that. But again, Laura, I just want to thank you one more time for being here and for taking all this time with us today. Laura Bratton ** 1:04:27 Thank you for the opportunity, and thank you for hosting this podcast. Incredibly powerful and we all need to be reminded **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:37 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
Kiera talks with Chief Operations Manager Jeff and Dr. Andrew Sugg of Green Park Dentistry about identifying your dreams as dental leaders, and finding the path to get there. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special magical day on the podcast. I have two of my absolute favorite human beings. We have known each other for so many years. They are incredible, incredible dentists, practice owners, managers, like you name it. These two men are some of the most brilliant people I've watched in dentistry and I've watched them grow from beginning, very basics. to this masterpiece of their life, of their community, of this practice that I truly think is such an example in this world. So Jeff and Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today? Jeff & Andrew (00:33) Great, thank you for having us. Doing well, thank you for having us. Kiera Dent (00:37) You're so welcome. And I know it'll get a little weird, because when there's three of us here, it's always like, who's supposed to talk? So I'll try really hard to just call someone out. But honestly, guys, how does it feel to be, and I'll ask Jeff first. So again, I'll just riff through this. How does it feel from when we first met to where you are today? How does it feel? What would you even say? What's a word? Or what's the expression of where you started to where you are today? How was that experience for you, Jeff? Jeff & Andrew (00:42) Yeah. ⁓ if I had to sum it up in a word, looking back at myself in this experience, I think my younger self would look at today and be astonished that one, this is the career path I'm in that I didn't set out to. ⁓ you know, two, I started in this dental industry with zero experience other than knowing Andrew and listening to what he talks about when he comes home, to today. that we have gone from a team of seven in this tiny building with five ops we started with to now a team of 20, 17 ops in a 16,000 square foot building. I literally cannot, I have to pinch myself being like, we did this, take a minute, let's reflect. I'm still kind of coming down from all of the renovation and the moving and calibration. ⁓ So every now and then I have to remind myself like, wait, this is our place, we did this. So take a minute and reflect. And I'm still kind of battling with that because I'm used to going full force. So I'm astonished. Kiera Dent (02:16) It's amazing. And Jeff, I'm so glad you said that. we've known each other. Jeff and Andrew have been clients of ours for years. This is like a client spotlight where we bring on people to just, I think, share their journey, share their experience. And for me to have like a proud mama moment of just being so freaking proud of where you are. And I agree, I'm astonished. It's not something when I met you too that I thought, would it be capable? But I do think it's all for all of us, like a pinch me moment. And for me, What I love is seeing my favorite humans just flourish. And I feel like you guys give back to your team, you give back to your community. You're the good guys that I always want to win. And so I'm your biggest raving fan over here. Yes, have the life, have the experiences, do the things because you're just amazing humans that are contributing so much to this world. So I love that. Andrew, want to hear, and also Jeff, always you should just love Andrew so much and the fact that he brought you into dentistry. Welcome to the best profession ever. So kudos on that, Andrew. Jeff & Andrew (03:07) ⁓ huh. Yes. Thank you. Kiera Dent (03:12) What about for you? How's this journey been from where you started? You and Jeff, think it's like adorable. Jeff literally had no clue. I remember Jeff, you're like, I don't even know what these things. Jeff & Andrew (03:20) That's exactly what I was going to say. Like Andrew brought me and I was like, Hi, Kiera, I'm Jeff. And I don't know what I'm doing and I think I need your help. So I do have to throw in a kudos, a super thank you for guiding me and helping me get to this place. So yeah, you guys really helped kind of us. Kiera Dent (03:32) my gosh, I can't take the huge credit. Tiffany has been like the mass superstar for you guys. I've been able to be the proud mom on the side that's just freaking rooting for you all day long. But yes, I do remember definitely like, hi, your adorable glasses. Like you guys were just like dressed in white I think the night I met you and hi guys, super nice to meet you. So, Andrew, didn't mean to cut you off, go ahead. Jeff & Andrew (03:47) No, it's okay. I think that's it though, is you guys have really helped bridge that like my clinical side and love of dentistry and what I've always really enjoyed and still geek out over all the time. And you helped pull Jeff in and help him understand how he can kind of make this what he wanted to be. And I think that was something that kind of stuck with us ever since we first met y'all was that was on that weekend that we heard was Like if you're not happy in your office, there's one person to blame and it's you, right? So it's like, you have the power, you have the energy, the time to put into that and kind of make it what you want. And I guess that's where like, my word would be excited. Cause I do feel like the more that we lean in and kind of just trust our gut and do the things that we kind of really want to do, it becomes more fun. We kind of are instilling in our team what you've instilled in us to kind of take that leadership and work towards their goals and find their secret secrets that kind of stand out and really make them shine. And I think it's just, it's been really fulfilling and really exciting for us. Kiera Dent (04:57) That's amazing. And I think for both of you, I remember, I feel like there was a pivotal moment. I don't know what year it was, but I feel like there was a moment where you both just hunkered down of what do want our life to look like? What do we want our practice to be? What do we this to look like? And I feel like that was your, I call them lightning bolt moments. And I feel like it was just like, from there, I feel like that's where momentum just skyrocketed for you. And I don't know if you guys remember that from persons on the outside looking in. That's something that I really watched, but I'm just curious, like, did you feel that way? I'll start with Andrew first on this one. Did you feel that way? And if you did, like, okay, give me the thumbs up or like, yes, did you feel that way? That's question one. Let me be a better host here. Andrew, did you feel that that was something that changed for you guys in your practice? Jeff & Andrew (05:37) Yes, no, I definitely did. it is hard though for me to put pinpoint. I think I had to lean into trusting having Jeff here and having you guys help him. It just allowed me to really focus and be that dreamer that I am. I'm definitely the dreamer. He's the implementer. So I think you helped us to find roles and understand kind of where we really can help each other, you know, kind of reach those goals together. So. Yeah, I don't know the day or time, but I definitely felt like it was soon after meeting you guys and we just really felt like, okay, we can do this. it just, yeah, it's just magical. ⁓ Kiera Dent (06:14) It's truly magical. Thank you. Jeff, what about for you? Jeff & Andrew (06:18) Yeah, ⁓ I remember several moments and I think a lot of ⁓ it was like a light bulb. I remember it was, you know, the career change and all that. It was hard for me, you know, going from the scientific, you know, yeah, marine geology, marine geophysics, so like offshore to now dealing with people. Kiera Dent (06:22) you Is it geology? Am I like making that up? Jeff & Andrew (06:43) you patients, the public, it was crazy. I don't know what world I was in. But then I realized, you know, I was coming into the office. I am not enjoying coming into the office. I'm not enjoying this. And I started to see, you know, you know, at the time we called it staff or employees. And it was like that. Why are we doing what we're doing? Right. So you guys helped me realize that I'm the catalyst to change. We are. ⁓ And Kiera Dent (06:43) Yeah. It's real! Jeff & Andrew (07:11) We had past experience of being treated poorly or maybe unfairly or just feeling unfulfilled. And I started to realize we're in this industry that I'm not enjoying going to work, so nobody else is enjoying going to work. Who can change it? That's me. And then I started to notice that it felt like people in their roles and their careers within the office felt unfulfilled or underappreciated. And it's like a dental assistant isn't just a dental assistant. do the work that the dentist to allow the dentist to do his job. So without that, it's essential. So why don't we treat them like essential? So there was that moment that I walked into that door and I had you and Tiffany in my ear like, come in with a different energy, present differently. And I did, and I remember that moment. And I remember seeing people be like, whoa, this is a little different. Like, this could be a fun day. And I'm like, this is going to be a fun. career. And then that started, okay, how can I make people's roles more fulfilling? How can we create growth opportunity? How can we show them that there's opportunity in our practice and they have the power to grasp that, to have a fulfilling life? We go to work every day for eight hours or longer, you know, so if they're not fulfilled there, how are we serving the people that are serving us? Kiera Dent (08:38) That's incredible. And I think Jeff, this just highlights a lot of your leadership and like the growth I've seen in you. I remember Cranky Jeff, who did not enjoy going to the wards. Like, what is it? Yeah. Jeff & Andrew (08:45) They call him Gilbert, that's my middle name. So that's the ⁓ alias for Cranky Jeff. Kiera Dent (08:53) like it. Yeah, I do remember those days and you were not happy in this and I don't think Andrew was super happy. Andrew, you've always been like one of the most passionate dentists I've ever met, which is so fun to see you like light up when you talk about dentistry and do all the pieces. Jeff, on the other hand, I think you kind of like drug him into this like, Hey, I need you in here. Gilbert, it sounds like was the one that and then Jeff came to the scene realizing like the the space for you and Jeff, that's something I really love to highlight is I think so many leaders don't realize it's within them. Jeff & Andrew (09:01) you Yeah. Kiera Dent (09:21) because it doesn't look the way that they thought it was going to be. I just I'm excited to get into that. And I'm just curious. So you briefly mentioned you guys had this small practice in my mind. It's like purple or pink walls. Is that really true? Like inside? Jeff & Andrew (09:33) It started that way. It was like very dark green, brown, had purple. Yes, there was some magenta. Yeah. Yes. Very dark brown. Popcorn ceiling too. ⁓ Kiera Dent (09:39) knew it. It was like a dollhouse in my mind. Like it was like this like little like very short like ceilings. ⁓ Yes, not that great. I remember being like, Tiff, this is where they work. Like, okay, looks like this. Like, I mean, how could you not have fun, Jeff? There's like colors of every rainbow on all the walls for you. Like, okay. ⁓ but you guys went from this small building to now this massive practice. You've got all these team members. but something I, I'm probably going to like butcher your vision just a little bit. but I remember hearing it when you said it and it stuck with me again. I think I'll get like the gist of it, but I remember you saying like, we are going to be like, Jeff & Andrew (09:51) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kiera Dent (10:17) the dentist that the community chooses. Something like that. don't know how, I feel like I'm close to it, but I really loved that it was like, okay, we're gonna impact our community really largely. We want to be the place that our community chooses. And you did this whole expansion and I'm just curious, like, okay, what worked well? What didn't work well? What were like, let's just kind of go on like a fun road. I'm not gonna pick who like you guys can tag team over there, but I'm just curious of. You went from Gilbert Jeff, who's angry to this like weird house that you're in to now this like amazing business building community. Like the impact you guys have in your community is amazing. You have all these team members. Like what were the highlights? were the like walk me through? I need to know what did you do right? What did you wish you would have done? What advice do you have for other people looking to go down this journey? That's something I think you've done so well. but I think like it didn't come without a lot of learning and a lot of growth that I'd love you guys to just highlight. But also you did some things really freaking well too, so highlight that too. So ⁓ it's over to both of you, whomever wants to pick up the ball and run with it, it's yours. And tag team, because I'm sure both of you have very different perspectives on how that took place. Jeff & Andrew (11:23) Well, I can start because I think one thing for me that's been really amazing is like, really, you guys helped be our cheerleaders to say like, hey, if you stick with these things, you stick with these systems, it's really allowed us to kind of be ourselves. And in a way, that's what feels unreal. Like it feels really magical that like we get to be ourselves every day. We get to stick to like what our core values are. And it feels lucky that people appreciate that. And that shouldn't be like. rare in the world today, but it really does feel that way. So I feel really lucky to come to work. I feel lucky. get to be honest and authentic with the people around me. And I think ⁓ that's been like the biggest, coolest thing to me, like through all of this is I think having you all as cheerleaders, I was really like the biggest thing because you move into this building and increase in our team size is kind of like, that happening? And then I'm like, I'm going to go do the dentistry. You, you guys figure it out and you're like, yeah, we're to hire some people. Kiera Dent (12:17) Andrew's always pushing it off like, Jeff, I'm gonna go do this, like good luck on all the fires. No wonder you a good one. I'll put it. Jeff & Andrew (12:19) Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, can you stop being the dreamer for like a year? need a break. Stop dreaming. Come down for second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. would say so, you know, kind of piggybacking off what we touched on earlier with elevating the team and that sort of thing. So when we did that, was kind of like positivity just keeps. Kiera Dent (12:26) He just can't stop. That's amazing. Jeff & Andrew (12:46) building, right? It's contagious. People want to be around it. People like it. They want to feel that way. So we did some work internally with the team and then we realized the team likes it. You know, this is real, you know? So then that immediately transfers to the patients and then to the community. So there's kind of like the little trickle effect there. So when patients start to come in and they're like, this is kind of fun. Everybody enjoys their job. I enjoy coming here. ⁓ or when I walk in, I feel happy, you know? It's like, that's the vibe we wanted and that Andrew and Dr. Parks, their dental work is exceptional. So pair it with that. And then the word gets out and it just continues to snowball. So as that's happening, we're like, maybe we should expand. Okay, so I think we can take on somebody else. Then we were, the plans kind of evolved and there was the first plan was to ⁓ double the size of the building that we were in. Um, but then COVID hit. pre COVID we're like, we're going to do this. Let's plan it. We've got enough land to double the building. Let's get all this done. We actually used our waiting room as an extra spare room because we are kind of outgrowing our space. So business was getting bigger, but the project was not moving along at all. So we cut into the waiting room and we made six rooms and we're like, can we sustain this? Yes. We sustained it immediately. So, um, Kiera Dent (14:04) Yeah. Clever. Jeff & Andrew (14:14) After COVID hit, said, shoot, what are we going to do? Like, we can't afford this expansion anymore. And then what does the timeline look like that just went out the window? we're like, let's pivot. If we were going to spend X amount of dollars here for this, it ended up being ⁓ about 2000 workable square feet that we would add to the practice. ⁓ So we started looking at, there buildings for sale around? And we kind of had a vision a long time ago. Kiera Dent (14:37) Mm-hmm. Jeff & Andrew (14:45) even before considering moving the practice itself, like there's some cool buildings in our community that could look beautiful. ⁓ So maybe we look into some of those ugly ones and that's what we end up doing. So we identified a building that was way bigger than what we needed. ⁓ However, the thing that we identified was the plumbing was around the exterior between the levels. So we thought that's super expensive. Kiera Dent (14:58) Hahaha art. Jeff & Andrew (15:13) you know, ground up. So let's utilize some of this plumbing. We interviewed ⁓ several contractors. We chose one to do the original project expanding that building, but we chose another for this project because of our interview. So it took ⁓ a lot of back and forth to figure out who's going to work best with us and who's really going to build in some cost savings. Like with the building that we did buy, We made sure that the contractor that we hired was going to retain as much material as they could. We had solid doors. like, save the doors. We'll paint them or reuse them. I don't want to buy a ton of new doors. we were able, the relationship started well. It ended well also, but that was the building blocks. Like, are you going to work with me or are you going to be like, let's tear it down and start fresh to make a buck? ⁓ Kiera Dent (15:53) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jeff & Andrew (16:07) So that was a huge win. So we made a really good relationship with the contractor there. And then ⁓ he guided us through. And I think, you know, in the planning stage, architecture and engineering took a lot. And those were, ⁓ those were really the holdup, pretty much the engineer. So I would say stress on the engineering part first, because it's hard to make changes later, just because they don't typically work as fast, I guess. Kiera Dent (16:33) for sure. That's true. ⁓ Jeff & Andrew (16:36) takes longer, or in our case it was. But ⁓ I mean, it might seem like you're being redundant about layout and switches and these sort of things. ⁓ It's not. Visit the practice as many times as you can while it's in construction. Talk to everybody on a day-to-day basis. I popped in here so many times and was like, I don't like where that light is, or people don't always listen. it... stinks to be like, hey, I prepared all this stuff and this is what I want done. This is where I want everything and nobody looks at it. So it's like, you got to be there in person and kind of guide them. ⁓ Yeah, well, I also kind of I think you kind of point out like to make is ⁓ we really stuck to like our our goals and just ambition and just knowing that like, hey, we're just doing good things. And we're just trying to do good for the community. And like, how can we expand? And it was scary at times expansion. It was always very scary till we got here. Like we say, jokingly, when we were at the old building and we come over here, even bringing the staff, you could tell everybody's like, what the heck, this place is really big. We're going to lose each other like Kiera Dent (17:36) As always. Jeff & Andrew (17:46) We're not going to hear in our old office, I could hear our front desk and I could actually like tell them like, actually don't do that. You know, like I can correct people from like the room, you know, down the hallway and here it is a lot more space, but it's like, once we got here, we're like, how the heck did we all fit there? And then you just quickly fill the space and it's really, it's exciting. Cause yeah, I don't know. ⁓ you just gotta really like trust in, ⁓ your, process and your values and what you're working towards. And I do feel like it has been. Kiera Dent (17:46) Hmm? Jeff & Andrew (18:15) building up, like we're going to celebrate our 10th year in practice next year. And I think that's what feels unreal. Oh my God, it's this year. next year. Yeah. Next year. Sorry. Oh, year. Yeah. Oh, see? Don't even know. We need a break. But it just flies by, right? Like it's just... Yeah, we celebrate every year. For sure. And I think that is like, it is just kind of in a way, you just kind of stick to like little goals, kind of just keep it moving those like, hey, how can we make this better? What can we do? Oh, we need space. How do we solve that problem? Kiera Dent (18:26) I don't know, it's just not dirty. Pop this celebration all the years. ⁓ Jeff & Andrew (18:43) and necessity just helped kind of push us along. And yeah, I think if we would have done the building before COVID, we probably would still be in our old office and kind of wishing we had more space. But in a weird way, I'm really happy that things worked out the way they did. ⁓ yeah, we've ended up here. So it's been amazing. I'd say on a team perspective too, like the team was really scared to be honest, like moving over here. There were concerns. ⁓ But... ⁓ Kiera Dent (18:58) always. Jeff & Andrew (19:10) You know, when we said it first, were like, we're do, we're, we're going to do this instead. And they were like, Oh, so I think keeping them regularly informed and kind of showing them the things that we're doing. like, we made them a part of the process so they could be excited about it. We took them to visit when milestones were done. We'd like, Hey, meet over there. We'll, we'll talk about it. Um, we kept them involved in the process. And I mean, we we weren't like financially open about all of the things, but it was nice to be able to like, listen, we've got to buy. cabinets and cabinets cost this much money. You know what I mean? So ⁓ we could do it, but we have to do this. So we want to take care of it too. So it instilled value and it's still excitement. And then helping, you know, getting votes on like color choices or that sort of thing involved them. And then before the move, they were really nervous about what it was going to be like in a space as large bringing on new team members. So with the help from y'all Tiffany, we Kiera Dent (19:42) Yeah, yeah. huh. Jeff & Andrew (20:08) We were like, okay, everybody write down what the specific concerns are. And then we're going to talk about how we're going to combat that. ⁓ So we're going to prep you with like the solution before a problem even occurs. And that was, that was helpful. And then we did move in one weekend, long weekend ourselves with some movers. It was crazy. And everybody pitched in and everybody just had fun doing it. And it was Labor Day weekend, so we had an extra day. Yeah. Kiera Dent (20:20) So smart. Amazing. You're like, okay, we'll do it. I mean, Labor Day seems very fitting. It's labor, it's very intensive. Jeff & Andrew (20:41) I know, right? Yeah. But we didn't require anybody. like, hey, we're doing this. Like nobody's required to, but if you want to, we would love it and we'll make it fun. And it was good. then like, what, less than a month after we got slammed at the hurricane in North Carolina, the mountain. So that was a hurdle. We had a generator that was took the longest to get in the last thing installed. One the expensive things we bought and they didn't hook it up. Because the gas inspection. Kiera Dent (20:49) and Shoot. Uh-huh. Thank Jeff & Andrew (21:11) So double check your inspections, make sure the gas inspection is ⁓ like. Kiera Dent (21:14) Yes. Yeah, make sure it's actually all prepped for in case of hurricane. But like, kudos to you guys. Like, I'm so proud of you and to hear, I love the two different perspectives. And I think something I hear is you are true to yourselves. want like, knowing that you want to be, like I said, I probably like butchered your vision just a little bit. Sorry on that. Like being the dentist that the community chooses and being the place that we can serve them. Well, you can only serve so many patients in six ops, which is like a makeshift six op. We were like five, realistically five and a half. So, Jeff & Andrew (21:21) Yeah. Kiera Dent (21:48) It's like, it's not like, if you build them, they will come. You guys already knew you had made this footprint. You knew what you wanted to do. I feel like you guys really hunkered in. You're like, we're going to be a part of this community. This is where we want to be. We want to change the lives of our employees. And I feel like in doing so, I think that almost gave you the, the steam. It's not like something I really love about both of you is on paper, you guys have really sexy numbers that I'm always like, love having them as clients. Like great job over there. Jeff & Andrew (22:14) Yeah. Kiera Dent (22:15) But as human beings, mean, right? As a consultant, you're like, all right, like, look at my perfect, like, model students over here. Well, you guys are one of them. And I'm really proud of the numbers you put up, and I'm proud of the dentistry you do. But the piece is you grew because you wanted to for the impact. You didn't grow for the ego associated with it. And I think that that's so paramount because I think that that's why you guys still are happy. I think that's why you love coming to work. going through that mayhem, if it's not your passion project, if it's not something you really want to do to serve and to give back and to have a bigger vision beyond the dollar signs, I think the dollar signs for you were secondary and the community and the impact was number one. And I think that's why, like, of course you got to pay for it. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I mean, maybe you guys are truly children of like the billionaires and who knows what world and I didn't know that about you. I'm pretty confident you're not yourself made of where you are over there, but like. Jeff & Andrew (23:01) No. ⁓ Kiera Dent (23:06) Looking at that, feel like that's a huge probably differentiator of your success because it was built from passion, love, and a desire to give back while also being incredibly good. Like Andrew, you're an amazing clinician. And I think that having, like you said, Jeff, top-notch dentistry, Jeff, you're amazing at building this culture and this community of people that love and serve. I think combine that together, then want to give it back to your community. I feel like your success was inevitable and I'm just really proud of you. And Jeff, to hear about going to the inspections, I'm like, yeah, good for you because How annoying is it when you walk in, like my husband and when we were building our house, they were gonna put our huge AC unit on the one side of our house that I could actually put like planter boxes and have stairs. And I was like, why don't we just move this over here? My husband tells me all the time, like, Kiera, that was one of your best moves. And I'm like, yes, because the function and the flow, like it would have been all of our neighbors. Where do you think their AC unit is? Right in the middle of the only usable space on the side of the house and they all put it. And I'm like, you're welcome. Or like little things like, like all of it. Jeff & Andrew (23:56) Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah. Kiera Dent (24:03) And so just like making it a space that you wanna be in that you're proud of, I just really love and like hearing, I mean, you had an obstacle right after you started and I think some people could have gotten really down, but it's like, no, we built something bigger. It's not like a burn and churn. You guys wanna be there for the long haul. You want this to be a place you're proud of and I think that that just bleeds through. So I'm really proud of you and thanks for sharing that journey. And I wanna pivot to highlight both of you just a smidge because Andrew, I think you do something really special. and you're able to mentor doctors really well. And I think that this is something that not all dentists are able to do. And Jeff, you're more than welcome to chime in on anything. Like at this point, guys, you should compliment one another. mean, hello, let me just make your life even better for you. But Andrew, can you walk us through, what do you feel are some of the things you do so superior? Like, I want you to brag a little bit. This is a moment where Kiera Dent is so freaking proud of you. Tiff is proud of you. Our company is proud of you. ⁓ because I think other people want to know how to do this. So I almost want to peel back the curtain just a little bit on what are some of the things you do really well in assembly? Like I said, Jeff, chime in too. Then we're going to reverse. We're going to talk about Jeff and Andrew, you can chime in on him. So like both of you can just schmooze each other tonight as well. You guys are going to have an amazing night post podcast. You're welcome. All right. But truly, Andrew, what are some of the things you feel set in part? Jeff & Andrew (25:11) Yeah, thank you. Well, that leads into a great, was going to say, like, I feel really lucky to have Jeff, obviously. And I know not everybody has a Jeff or can trust someone as much as I trust Jeff. But I think obviously it can be very hard on our marriage. So that's one side note. And I know like a lot of couples that that happens. But I think I have to always. Right? know. Two years ago, I was worried. And in gay years, that's like 40 years. Kiera Dent (25:38) I'm so proud of you. 10 years in and you still, I think, love each other, which is amazing. I think everybody is. You're like, okay. But it's one of those things also though, I will say, like throwing it out to couples, when couples go through what you have gone through and you're able to like be through the thick and the thin of it, I will also give advice. Like when I watched people go through dental school, and Andrew, I'm sure you saw this, I was so angry at so many of our like friends that went through. Jeff & Andrew (25:52) you Kiera Dent (26:05) Like they went through the residencies, they got to the end and I'm like, you freaking made it. And that's when they get divorced. And I'm like, Oh, if you're to get divorced, get divorced during the hard times, but like you have made it. You've made it. And now it's like, it's a matter of like, we bonded together, we grew together. And I think like making sure that stays a priority in your marriage. You guys remember I was a marriage and finally therapist prior to this. Like that was my thing. I like, Oh, don't give up on what you like. You went through the freaking hardest years together. Now it's like, enjoy this amazing life we built together. Jeff & Andrew (26:10) Yeah. Right, yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah Kiera Dent (26:35) and don't lose sight of how grateful we are for one another. anyway, like off my I hope all of you see the potential within yourselves and ⁓ I'd love to be a part of your story and your journey. So reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental Team A Podcast.
Are you on social media? Of course you are. So follow us! Twitter: @MemberTheGame Instagram: @MemberTheGame Twitch.tv/MemberTheGame Youtube.com/RememberTheGame Facebook.com/RememberTheGamePodcast TikTok.com/@MemberTheGame And if you want access to hundreds of bonus (ad-free) podcasts, along with multiple new shows EVERY WEEK, consider showing us some love over at Patreon. Subscriptions start at just $3/month, and 5% of our patreon income every month will be donated to our 24 hour Extra-Life charity stream at the end of the year! Patreon.com/RememberTheGame And you can find Dan here: Dissect That Film: https://t.co/0ezBBtfu4c ManaWurm: https://t.co/CYEAbxBZP8 It's well known 'round these parts that I adore Mega Man X. But for some reason, I never really gave the first sequel the time of day. And after almost 7 years of podcasts, it's time to right that wrong. I finally played through it and damned if it isn't almost as good as it's older brother. It's the tried and true Mega formula: take down 8 evil robots, steal their weapons, save the world, and die a lot in the process. Like X, it's got those sexy 16-bit graphics, 'Mavericks' instead of robot masters (which are all very fucking cool), and you can still find those Dr. Light chambers to power up with. I think the only thing missing from X2, in my eyes at least, is the nostalgia I have for the first game. And even then, this one holds up just fine. This a great game. My boy Dan from Dissect That Film returns to this week to talk about his favourite MM game in X2. We work through the robot masters, Zero subplot, soundtrack, weapons, and basically just spend an hour fluffing the Blue Bomber. And before we save the world, I put together another edition of the Infamous Intro! This week, someone asks if I think a video game crash is coming? When will I review some more NES movie games? And if I could be one weapon tool, or accessory from a video game, what would I be? (The answer speaks to my character). Plus we play another round of 'Play One, Remake One, Erase One', too! This one features 3 of the finest Mans to ever Mega: Mega Man 2, 3, and 4. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Are you on social media? Of course you are. So follow us! Twitter: @MemberTheGame Instagram: @MemberTheGame Twitch.tv/MemberTheGame Youtube.com/RememberTheGame Facebook.com/RememberTheGamePodcast TikTok.com/@MemberTheGame And if you want access to hundreds of bonus (ad-free) podcasts, along with multiple new shows EVERY WEEK, consider showing us some love over at Patreon. Subscriptions start at just $3/month, and 5% of our patreon income every month will be donated to our 24 hour Extra-Life charity stream at the end of the year! Patreon.com/RememberTheGame And you can find Dan here: Dissect That Film: https://t.co/0ezBBtfu4c ManaWurm: https://t.co/CYEAbxBZP8 It's well known 'round these parts that I adore Mega Man X. But for some reason, I never really gave the first sequel the time of day. And after almost 7 years of podcasts, it's time to right that wrong. I finally played through it and damned if it isn't almost as good as it's older brother. It's the tried and true Mega formula: take down 8 evil robots, steal their weapons, save the world, and die a lot in the process. Like X, it's got those sexy 16-bit graphics, 'Mavericks' instead of robot masters (which are all very fucking cool), and you can still find those Dr. Light chambers to power up with. I think the only thing missing from X2, in my eyes at least, is the nostalgia I have for the first game. And even then, this one holds up just fine. This a great game. My boy Dan from Dissect That Film returns to this week to talk about his favourite MM game in X2. We work through the robot masters, Zero subplot, soundtrack, weapons, and basically just spend an hour fluffing the Blue Bomber. And before we save the world, I put together another edition of the Infamous Intro! This week, someone asks if I think a video game crash is coming? When will I review some more NES movie games? And if I could be one weapon tool, or accessory from a video game, what would I be? (The answer speaks to my character). Plus we play another round of 'Play One, Remake One, Erase One', too! This one features 3 of the finest Mans to ever Mega: Mega Man 2, 3, and 4. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
A bit of a themed Q&A this week, with some great questions from folks in their 30's. We cover share save schemes at work, large inheritances and retirement planning - yes, even in your 30's! Shownotes: https://meaningfulmoney.tv/QA17 01:29 Question 1 Hi Pete and Roger, First of all I wanted to say I'm a new but avid listener to the MM Podcast, I'm so glad I found it while I'm still (relatively) young, I'm 39 and after years of making bad financial decisions the MM podcast has turned my attitude to money/investing and pensions on its head. I now relish the challenge of taking care of my finances rather than what felt like years of fighting against it. I wanted to ask a question regarding selling Investments vs taking a short term loan. I work for a large pharmaceutical company and as a perk of being an employee I pay into 2 share schemes through work. The one I'm thinking of selling is a plan whereby I'm limited to a certain amount a month I can pay in and whatever I pay in is matched by my employer, so half the shares in this scheme are free. Needles to say I pay the maximum into this to benefit from the BOGOF offer. I've recently had a large unexpected bill that even my emergency fund can't cover! And I wanted to know if selling the shares would be advisable over getting a 12 month loan? If I sell the shares the money will be paid to me through my next pay so it will be subject to tax and NI contributions, after a bit of number crunching I've worked out that what I'll pay back on the loan is a lot less than the tax and NI I'll pay on the shares, however it does mean being in debt for 12 months, but I'm reluctant to sell the shares as I'd earmarked it as a supplement to my pension. If this was cash sitting in an account then it'd be a no brainer but I'm sure that I've heard people advise against selling investments. Please could you help and offer some advice as I'm really not sure what's best as I do what to avoid debt too. Thanks in advance, Anthony 05:30 Question 2 Hi Pete and Roger Thank you so much for the podcast and content you put out - for free! - it's incredibly generous and has helped thousands of people including myself. I appreciate this is not a typical situation, but I am 30 years old and am due to inherit £500,000 (yes, really, though due to unhappy circumstances). Up until now (in no small part due to your content!) I've been confident managing my finances. I am single, and am just approaching becoming a higher-rate tax-payer as an NHS doctor. It is a stable job with a great pension and guaranteed pay progression. I have a £200,000 mortgage on my house which I am comfortably paying out of my salary. I also have a £10,000 cash emergency fund in place, and no other debt apart from my student loan. Due to the NHS pension (and the complexity of avoiding annual allowance breaches with a SIPP alongside a DB pension), I have favoured directing all my personal savings into my stocks and shares ISA rather than a SIPP, all in a 100% equities passive global tracker (currently about £60,000). I don't know what to do with this inheritance. I will put the first £50,000 in Premium Bonds. After that, I like the simplicity of £20,000 per year into the stocks and shares ISA in a passive global tracker. But in the short-term this still leaves a vast sum in cash. Even if I paid off the mortgage (which I'm unsure about, as I've had plans to spend on house renovations fairly soon), there is still a vast amount of cash left unsheltered. (First-world problems, granted.) I could pay for advice, but I would rather self-manage as I feel I don't want to do anything too complicated if someone could explain a simple strategy using a GIA. Option 1: GIA Is it easy to calculate the dividends on an accumulation global tracker fund? Should I ditch the simplicity of global trackers to find dividend-paying funds/investment trusts to try and pay less tax? Option 2: Cash Option 3: Holding gilts to maturity Have I missed anything? Does it really matter whether I do Option 1 or 2 in the grand scheme of things? Any thoughts would be much appreciated! Kind regards, James 14:30 Question 3 Hi Pete (and Roge) Thanks for all you have done and continue to do on the podcast. I've now read both your books which I would warmly recommend to anyone. I've tried to keep this brief but tricky not missing out key details! My wife and I are in our mid 30s and have SIPPs invested in passive, 100% global equity, accumulation funds. With a reasonable time horizon, and stomach for volatility, we're very happy with this approach. We would like the option to retire as soon as we reach the Normal Pension Age minus 10years which we assume will be 60 by then if we assume the state pension age will rise to 70. Given this background, how do I pivot away from 100% equities to a cash flow ladder? My current thinking is to do the following: - 10 year prior to retirement buy a Gilt with a 10 year maturity - do this for following years working my way up the cashflow ladder - I would need to plan for what I would do if the market was down at any point during this period - perhaps something like - if down by >10% in a given year only sell enough equities to cover minimum expenses for the applicable year and hope for a recovery. This would seem like a reasonable hedge between being prepared and missing out on a recovery. Does this sound like a reasonable approach? What other approaches could I consider? I appreciate I wouldn't be acting upon this question til about 2039, ahead of retiring in 2049, but I guess that is a testament to how you have helped me with my financial planning. If you think this is too far out for planning when do you think I should revisit it? Thanks, Dave 21:02 Question 4 Dear Pete and Roger, I've been a faithful listener for some time and yours is one of the best financial podcasts in the UK. Thank you for all your hard work. I've recently read Pete's new book. Gosh, it was not a light read but it was extremely valuable to me. My question is whether it is worth stopping contributions to the NHS pension if the money is needed more now rather than in retirement. Me (34yo) and my husband (43yo) are in an incredibly privileged position where we have 800k pounds in our ISAs (majority) and SIPPs and no debt. I love my NHS job and have no plans to leave it any time soon. My husband couldn't care less for his work. We figured we would like him to retire soon so we can enjoy benefits of having a stay at home dad at home for our child. The problem is, we cannot live off my salary alone and will have to supplement it. I calculated that if he retired in 3 years we would have 3 years worth of cash to cover the shortfall, 5-6 if I have more take home pay due to not contributing to pension. Basically leaving the NHS pension would give us 2 extra years of not having to draw from our investments but would cost circa 1k of guaranteed annual income in retirement for every year of missed contributions, plus benefits - death in service etc. I just wonder if it is worth it for potential returns which are obviously not guaranteed. Based on historical returns, allowing our investments to grow for 8 years will bring us to our FI number (25x annual expense). I feel this would be more valuable then having guaranteed income later in life. To me, being able to take out NHS pension in 34 years is completely abstract. I know you cannot give specific financial advise but I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you in advance, Jane. 29:04 Question 5 Hi Roger and Pete, Love the podcast and have learnt so much! Thank you! I am 34 and have paid into the teacher's pension (TPS) for the last 8 years. For 5 years, I worked abroad and did not contribute to it. Living back in the UK, I am not sure how much longer I will be a teacher or eventually my school might even withdraw from it and offer a private pension instead. Missing 5 years of my pension whilst away, I did a few years whereby I increased my contributions using faster accrual from 1/57th to 1/45th of my salary, however I wasn't convinced this was actually going to make up for my lost contributions. This tax year, I decided to stop this and have now got back £300 a month into my salary. My question is whether I would be best to pay this £300 into a LISA (already have £1500 in there for my pension) or ditch this and pay it into a SIPP. I want to have access to some money if I retire early before I can access my TPS which I can imagine will be 70 by the time I am older. Thanks in advance. Rachel 32:07 Question 6 Hi Pete (and the fabulous Rodge) Me and my husband both listen to your podcast and absolutely love your content. We've gone from not really having a clue to having more than £50k between investments and savings for the first time this month, and we put it all down to you and your excellent advice. The question I have is about raising our children with good money attitudes. You like to say "your attitudes towards money are set by the time you're 7", and that makes me think about my kids, who are currently 1 and 3. Me and my husband are both second children, and couldn't be more different from our older siblings in terms of money attitudes. Both our older siblings are spenders, and both in significant amounts of bad debt, making what we would consider poor financial choices. On the flip side, we are both savers, sometimes to the point of unhelpfulness, and we've had to do a lot of learning about spending money to enjoy ourselves more in the here and now. Obviously, we've had functionally identical upbringings to our siblings, so I'm not sure what's made us so different, but certainly I never remember having any direct advice from my parents of money management, investing, budgeting ETC. What is your advice on imparting finical wisdom to our offspring? How is it different at 3 to aged 7, for example? What about their early/late teenage years and young adulthood? I haven't told my husband I'm submitting a question, but if he hears this he'll definitely know it was from me so I'll look forward to our conversation later based on your answers! All our best Hannah
Hey HBs! We're back with Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books to recap A SOUL TO KEEP by Opal Reyne! Our duskwalker and captive (?) are just homesteading while they get to know each other, complete with growing their own food, crafting protection charms, and dyeing their own clothes. Is this actually the dream, or what? Except for all the demons who want to eat her. That's not ideal. Since this is a crossover episode, you'll get parts 1 and 2 here like normal and then part 3 will be on Smart Podcast, Trashy Books this Friday! Subscribe to the show it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc. This week's sponsor: A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL by Alyxandra Harvey! This delicious historical is just as wicked as it sounds! It's an enemies-to-lovers in which a bookstore owning heroine blackmails the most dangerous man in London to help save her sister AND solve a murder... and that's only if they can get navigate through all that sizzling banter and electric sexual tension. GET IT NOW HURRY DON'T WAIT THE VOICE IS AMAZING. Want more of us? Check out our PATREON! This Friday Patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers are getting a squeepisode on the first three books in The Games We Play in Granville series by DJ Jamison! Thank you for keeping Mel sane, fluffy MM romance authors! Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz Art: Author Kate Prior Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail Follow our socials: Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more.
Hey HBs! It's high time for a monster romance! Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books is here to help Mel recap A SOUL TO KEEP by Opal Reyne! We've got a lonely duskwalker, an ostracized and sacrificed heroine, and daily sexy baths! This one is delicious. Since this is a crossover episode, you'll get parts 1 and 2 here like normal and then part 3 will be on Smart Podcast, Trashy Books this Friday! Subscribe to the show it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc. Episode Sponsor: A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL by Alyxandra Harvey! This delicious historical is just as wicked as it sounds! It's an enemies-to-lovers in which a bookstore owning heroine blackmails the most dangerous man in London to help save her sister AND solve a murder... and that's only if they can get navigate through all that sizzling banter and electric sexual tension. GET IT NOW HURRY DON'T WAIT THE VOICE IS AMAZING. Want more of us? Check out our PATREON! This Friday Patrons and Apple Podcast subscribers are getting a squeepisode onthe first three books in The Games We Play in Granville series by DJ Jamison! Thank you for keeping Mel sane, fluffy MM romance authors! Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz Art: Author Kate Prior Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail Follow our socials: Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more.
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