The Thriving Lawyers Podcast

Folks, this may be the closest to a "Smartless" vibe that Michael and I ever get. Wide ranging witty banter, curious tales from the practice of law, insider intel from the fast-moving big-dealing VC world, and practical points to ponder for life and how to live it. Join us for a delightful 4 way conversation with these two lawyers/authors/entrepreneurs/venture capitalists, with a fresh take on on the Power of Perspective, the powerful life lessons of failing and trying again, the key ingredients of meaningful mentoring, and the importance of how we show up in every role, relationship, or project. Their new book is called How to Be a Lawyer: The Path From Law School to Success, and it's available... well, you know where (and they don't pay us to say their behemoth corporate name.)

Y'all, these millennials keep teaching me all kinds of stuff. Patrick Patino is a small firm practice renegade, thought leader, and pioneer.Like many of his peers, the statement "That's the way we've always done it" gets no traction with him.He has a passion for providing excellent client service in a way that is more efficient and affordable for the clients, and more sustainable for the professionals providing the services.Pair that with some tech-savvy and an infectious creative energy, and yo have a stellar example of a different way to thrive in the practice of law. Enjoy!(And please forgive the lack of a polished intro--this was another "get-to-know-you call" that had to become a podcast! :-) )You can find Patrick and keep up with him here: https://patinoking.com/

Y'all, these millennials keep teaching me all kinds of stuff. Patrick Patino is a small firm practice renegade, thought leader, and pioneer. Like many of his peers, the statement "That's the way we've always done it" gets no traction with him. He has a passion for providing excellent client service in a way that is more efficient and affordable for the clients, and more sustainable for the professionals providing the services. Pair that with some tech-savvy and an infectious creative energy, and yo have a stellar example of a different way to thrive in the practice of law. Enjoy! (And please forgive the lack of a polished intro--this was another "get-to-know-you call" that had to become a podcast! :-) )You can find Patrick and keep up with him here: https://patinoking.com/

Meet my new friend. Owen McGrann. A self-identified "Entrepreneur & Troublemaker" who manages not 1 but 2 successful small law firms. Learn how he got there after trying hard NOT to go to law school, making a go successful of it as a BigLaw associate, and navigating a health crisis that LITERALLY freed his mind and helped him re-establish his priorities.

Folks, it just doesn't get any better than this. There aren't sufficient words to describe how relatable, inspiring, brilliant, encouraging, and delightful our friend Jordana Confino is. You may think YOU are a successful Type A Perfectionist, but chances are, you've got NOTHING on this double-Yalie, clerkship-getting superstar. She was hitting all the hot-spots on the highway to success and getting all the rings & accolades we are primed for in law practice--and yet she somehow realized that she wanted something completely different. The realization nearly wrecked her, as she shares in this lively discussion with Chris, but there's more to the story, and it has a more-than-happy ending.Her course correction brought her a whole new level of joy and career satisfaction, but even better, her law students at Fordham University School of Law and her coaching clients are reaping the benefits and dividends as well. And yes, this should be a 2 parter--but you know what, y'all have "pause "buttons, right? :-) Jordana's Coaching Website: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/ Subscribe to Jordana's Blog, Chronicles of a Recovering Type A+ Perfectionist: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/newsletter-sign-up Values Discovery Guide: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/values Jordana LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanaconfino/

In Part 2 of this interview, trial lawyer Coleman Cowan talks with Chris about his adentures as an award-winning producer for CBS News' famed 60 Minutes program in NYC, as well as the many personal and professional factors that ultimately drew him back to the practice of law in North Carolina. Coleman also shares lessons learned during his time away from law practice that he now deploys in order to "produce" an enjoyable, rewarding, and sustainable law practice while being present with and caring for his family.PRODUCTION NOTE: This episode was recorded in late 2021, but somehow got lost in the post-production process. But Coleman is a guest for all seasons, and you'll emjoy hearing about his advwentures and lessons learned.

Whatever adventure, breaking news story, or creative endeavor you can think of, chances are that Durham-based trial lawyer Coleman Cowan has been there, done that, and produced an award-winning film about it. In part 1 of this interview, Coleman talks with Chris about the legacy and inspiration of his father (the late J. Donald Cowan, Jr. a well-respected civil defense and death penalty lawyer in North Carolina), making his own way as a young lawyer, and the near-death experience after a deposition that changed the trajectory of his career. PRODUCTION NOTE: This episode was recorded in late 2021, but somehow got lost in the post-production process. But Coleman is a guest for all seasons, and you'll emjoy hearing about his advwentures and lessons learned.

Meet Wendy Tamis Robbins, a lawyer with over 2 decades of practice experience, and a self-described "Ph. D in Anxiety." Her new book, THE BOX: AN INVITATION TO FREEDOM FROM ANXIETY is a poignant, moving account of Wendy's life as an all-star athlete, Ivy League-graduate, successful attorney, and cancer survivor-all while battling vexatious forms of anxiety that she had managed to keep hidden from peers and colleagues. Until she couldn't any more. Tune in to hear about the new level of freedom, hope, and purpose that she discovered as she both opened up about her mental health challenges and found(ed) a community of like-minded fellow-travelers.

Just in time for your commute home--or down the hall if you are working from home... Part 2 of Chris' interiew with the endearing, engaging, enlightening, and inapiring Prof. Heidi Brown, author of three STANDOUT books on lawyer well-beong published by the ABA.

Folks, this one has everything.... imposter syndrome, finding your super-power as an introvert in a field that often feels made for extroverts, brave life transitions, and the momentous impact of an all-too-rare moment of shared vulnerability in (gulp!) BigLaw. Join host Chris Osborn for a delightful, engaging, and compelling conversation with 4 time ABA-published author Prof. Heidi Brown of Brooklyn Law School. In Part 1, Heidi shares about her incredible journey: from feeling out-of place in law school, finding her sweet spot and hitting her stride in a spohisticated construction law practice, and changing it all up as she learned more about who she was and what she needed to truly thrive and flourish as a lawyer and a human being. Whowver and whereer you are, we know you'll find relatble moments galore!

In this week's episode, join Michael Kahn for a discussion with Elisabeth Steele, JD, who teaches educators and "lawyer types" to connect with virtual audiences. Michael and Elisabeth also discuss her DEI work.Stay in Elisabeth's loop >>LinkedInFacebookTwitterInstagramTikTokElisabethsteele.com

In this week's episode, join Michael Kahn for part 2 of a discussion with Mike Kasdan, JD, about his refreshing approach to lawyering which includes, self-awareness, vulnerability, authenticity, and humane leadership. Stay in Mike's loop >> Twitter: @law_while_human Instagram: zen.mayhem Facebook: Zen Mayhem: Lawyering While Human Group Website: www.lawyeringwhilehuman.com (under construction) Email: mike@lawyeringwhilehuman.com LinkedIn: Mike Kasdan The Good Men Project: www.goodmenproject.com

In this week's episode, join Michael Kahn for part 1 of a discussion with Mike Kasdan, JD, about his refreshing approach to lawyering which includes, self-awareness, vulnerability, authenticity, and humane leadership. Stay in Mike's loop >> Twitter: @law_while_human Instagram: zen.mayhem Facebook: Zen Mayhem: Lawyering While Human Group Website: www.lawyeringwhilehuman.com (under construction) Email: mike@lawyeringwhilehuman.com LinkedIn: Mike Kasdan The Good Men Project www.goodmenproject.com

Join Michael Kahn for part two of a wide-ranging discussion with J. Kim Wright, integrative lawyer, author, innovator, and systems change agent. Stay in J. Kim Wright's Loop >> LinkedIn:  https://www..linkedin.com/in/jkimwright Twitter: https://twitter.com/cuttingedgelaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cuttingedgelaw www.jkimwright.com www.cuttingedgelaw.com www.consciouscontracts.com consciouscoach.com www.integrativelaw.com Co-Editor: Trauma-Informed Law: A Primer for Practicing Lawyers (2022, ABA) Author: Lawyers as Peacemakers (ABA, 2010); Lawyers as Changemakers (ABA, 2016) Contributor: The Best Lawyer You Can Be: A Guide to Physical, Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual Wellness by Stewart Levine (ABA, 2018) 50 Lessons for Women Lawyers - From Women Lawyers: Career and Life Lessons From 50 Successful Women Lawyers by Nora Riva Bergman (Berroco Canyon Publishing, 2019) and several other books. See: https://www.cuttingedgelaw.com/publications/

Join Michael Kahn for part one of a wide-ranging discussion with J. Kim Wright, integrative lawyer, author, innovator, and systems change agent. Stay in J. Kim Wright's Loop >> www.jkimwright.com www.cuttingedgelaw.com www.consciouscontracts.com consciouscoach.com www.integrativelaw.com   Co-Editor: Trauma-Informed Law: A Primer for Practicing Lawyers (2022, ABA) Author: Lawyers as Peacemakers (ABA, 2010); Lawyers as Changemakers (ABA, 2016) Contributor: The Best Lawyer You Can Be: A Guide to Physical, Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual Wellness by Stewart Levine (ABA, 2018) 50 Lessons for Women Lawyers - From Women Lawyers: Career and Life Lessons From 50 Successful Women Lawyers by Nora Riva Bergman (Berroco Canyon Publishing, 2019) and several other books. See: https://www.cuttingedgelaw.com/publications/ LinkedIn: https://www..linkedin.com/in/jkimwright Twitter: https://twitter.com/cuttingedgelaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cuttingedgelaw

In this week's episode, join Michael Kahn for part 2 of an enlightening and hopeful interview with Shailini Jandial George, Professor of Legal Writing at Suffolk University Law School. Stay in Shailini George's loop >> https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/faculty/s/j/sjgeorge Twitter: @ShailiniG Instagram: lawyer_wellbeing

In this week's episode, join Michael Kahn for part 1 of an enlightening and hopeful interview with Shailini Jandial George, Professor of Legal Writing at Suffolk University Law School. Stay in Shailini George's loop >> https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/faculty/s/j/sjgeorge Twitter: @ShailiniG Instagram: lawyer_wellbeing

In this week's episode, join Chris Osborn for part 2 of a lively and inspiring interview with Winter Wheeler, a wonderful, winsome, and winning litigator from Atlanta, who picked a paralyzing pandemic period to pivot her practice to all mediation and strike out on her own. You'll hear how she drew upon past experiences when life had thrown her some major curveballs (such as navigating Hurricane Katrina while at law school in New Orleans!) to once again persevere and prosper in spite of a perplexing predicament. Pooped parents will also appreciate her pronouncements on maintaining proper perspective about your performance. Stay in Winter Wheeler's Loop! https://www.winterwheeler.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/winterwheeler/ https://www.instagram.com/themediatenow/ https://znap.link/themediatenow https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeoSy7ydQuLh_o7CwHPozw

Join Michael Kahn for part 2 of his informative and lively interview with Katherine Adamenko, the Manager of Well-being for Ropes & Gray, an international law firm with 1400 lawyers.

Join Michael Kahn for an informative and lively interview with Katherine Adamenko, the Manager of Well-being for Ropes & Gray, an international law firm with 1400 lawyers.   

Join Michael Kahn for an informative and thought-provoking interview with Kathryn Burmeister, an unconventional, animal-loving lawyer, author, and speaker. Connect with Kathryn on her various social media accounts! https://kathrynfburmeister.com https://www.instagram.com/kfburmeister https://www.linkedin.com/in/kfburmeister/ https://www.facebook.com/kfburmeisterllc https://bit.ly/OSQbook

Join Chris Osborn for a lively and inspiring interview with Winter Wheeler, a wonderful, winsome, and winning litigator from Atlanta, who picked a paralyzing pandemic period to pivot her practice to all mediation and strike out on her own. You'll hear how she drew upon past experiences when life had thrown her some major curveballs (such as navigating Hurricane Katrina while at law school in New Orleans!) to once again persevere and prosper in spite of a perplexing predicament. Pooped parents will also appreciate her pronouncements on maintaining proper perspective about your performance. Stay in Winter Wheeler's Loop >> https://www.winterwheeler.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/winterwheeler/ https://www.instagram.com/themediatenow/ https://znap.link/themediatenow https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeoSy7ydQuLh_o7CwHPozw

Welcome back to the Thriving Lawyers Podcast. In this week's episode, Michael Kahn, one half of the Thriving Lawyers Podcast, finishes up his interview with Ricky Kidd, a man wrongfully accused of murder. Ricky discusses the coping tools he has accessed both in prison and since his release. He also expands on the projects he has launched to educate the public about the many flaws in the justice system and to inspire the implementation of changes. Included in the interview is Ricky's discussion about the importance of lawyer wellbeing and how it impacted his representation negatively and positively. More information and resources >>

In this week's episode of The Thriving Lawyer's Podcast, Michael Kahn interviews Ricky Kidd, a Kansas City man who was wrongfully convicted of a 1996 double homicide. 

In this week's episode of The Thriving Lawyers Podcast, Michael Kahn interviews Ricky Kidd, a Kansas City man who was wrongfully convicted of double homicide back in 1996.  

In Part 2 of our interview with Prof., Sean O'Brien, you'll learn more about how this veteran innocence and exoneration lawyer navigates one of the most gut-wrenching and yet rewarding practice areas there is, and manages to fight on another day at a time.. Tune in to hear about the toll that Prof. O'Brien's lifelong labor of criminal appellate work took on him ,and how he learned to persevere and practice better self-care--even with the highest stakes imaginable, his clients' lives hanging in the balance. If he can do it, maybe we can too!

Michael sits down with Allison Wolf, founder of ShiftWorks Coaching for Lawyers (https://thelawyercoach.com/). She is also the publisher of the law blog “Attorney With A Life," and has co-presented with Michael on a number of occasions. Tune in for a lively, frank, and insightful conversation about the unique challenges lawyers face in juggling the many roles they play, and some practical tips and strategies that you can utilize in any practice setting, at any stage of your career.

In Part 2 of our interview with Alexis Robertson, Director of D&I for Foley & Lardner, LLP, Alexis provides insights from her work as a D&I professional--with some real gems of wisdom on the key ingredients that make D&I training actually effective. We also discuss the crucial role that personal well-being and self care play-- not only for doing the hard work of fostering genuine and meaningful inclusion, but for thriving as professionals in demanding practices.

Join us for Part 1 of our interview with the intrepid, engaging, insightful, and introspective Alexis Robertson, Director of Diversity and Inclusion for national law firm Foley & Lardner, LLP. You'll be inspired, encouraged, and moved as you hear about her career development as a BigLaw labor & employment litigator, a top shelf legal recruiter, and her current gig as a DE&I professional.

This week, Michael Kahn interviews Sean O'Brien, Professor at Clinical Program Director at the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law. In pt. 1, Sean shares some of the struggles he faces in representing innocent persons on death row. He describes the immense stress & pressures that come with the work, the challenges of battling the appalling injustices that many people encounter, and how he has been able to keep at it for all these years. Come back next week for pt. 2!

Join us for part 2 of Michael Kahn's interview with Cheyne Scott, Partner at Chasan Lamparello Mallon & Cappuzzo, PC.  In the second part of this interview, Michael and Cheyne dive into the importance of accepting and internalizing thoughts and emotions and taking a moment to analyze their source; especially the ones that are unexpected and negative. Cheyne also talks about coping mechanisms and shares some of her favorites. Plus, this episode comes with plenty of book recommendations! 

Listen to part 1 of Michael Kahn's interview with Cheyne Scott, Partner at Chasan Lamparello Mallon & Cappuzzo, PC.  In this episode, Cheyne shares some of her personal experiences  dealing with the immense stress of being a lawyer and how she found peace and relief through the practice of mindfulness. Michael and Cheyne also discuss the power of mindset and the importance of focusing only on useful thoughts.  Join us next week for part 2!

Listen to part 2 of, "Put Away Your Legal Pad: How to Stop Litigating Ourselves out of Good Relationships," excerpted from a webinar that ReelTime presented in conjunction with the ABA during Lawyer Wellbeing Week in May 2020. Special guests include Wendy Osborn (wife of Chris and a counseling intern in her own right), and ReelTime Affiliate and dear friend Dr. Andrea Cochran (D. Psych.). Tune in for a lively, humorous, and insightful exploration of common challenges that many lawyers face in their interpersonal relationships, the deeper sources of these issues, and practical strategies for not over-lawyering the people we love.

Join us for a 2 part series called, "Put Away Your Legal Pad: How to Stop Litigating Ourselves out of Good Relationships," excerpted from a webinar that ReelTime presented in conjunction with the ABA during Lawyer Wellbeing Week in May 2020. Special guests include Wendy Osborn (wife of Chris and a counseling intern in her own right), and ReelTime Affiliate and dear friend Dr. Andrea Cochran (D. Psych.). Tune in for a lively, humorous, and insightful exploration of common challenges that many lawyers face in their interpersonal relationships, the deeper sources of these issues, and practical strategies for not over-lawyering the people we love   Come back next week for part 2! 

In this second part of Michael Kahn's interview with Sidney Evering,  they dive deeper into the issues surrounding the #BlackLivesMatter movement. You won't want to miss Sidney's poignant observations  about what he believes to be the core problem in racial disparities experienced by people of color. Sidney also offer insights into his own experiences as a lawyer of color, and into how he manages to stay hopeful even in the face of continuing challenges and disappointments. 

This week Michael Kahn interviews Sidney Evering, a partner in the Columbia, SC office of Parker Poe Adams & Bernstein LLP, and former chair of the firm’s Diversity Committee.  Tune in for Sidney’s poignant and powerful observations on the national outpouring of response to the deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery, as well as the increasing light being shined on persistent racial disparities in the American justice system. In part 1, Michael and Sidney cover topics including police brutality, the prevalence of implicit biases, and the many challenges of being a person of color in today’s society. Make sure not to miss part 2 next week.

Listen to this week's episode as Michael Kahn interviews Jay Reeves, the owner of Your Law Life LLC, helping lawyers and firms add purpose, profits and peace of mind in their law lives, and author of "The Most Powerful Attorney in the World." Jay shares the power and importance of telling your story (and telling it the right way!) and how it can have an immense impact on each individual and the people around them. 

In this second part of this interview, Sigalle Barness, author of Chief Operating Mommy blog at COO of Lawline, talks with Michael and Chris about the challenges of being a parent, spouse, and legal professional. Sigalle shares candidly about some of the commitments and sacrifices she has had to make in order to successfully grow and sustain her family, career, and personal well-being.   

Today’s guest is our dear friend and ACLEA colleague, Sigalle Barness, Chief Operating Officer of Lawline.com, a nationwide provider of continuing legal education content. In part 1, with her trademark warmth, intellect, and humor, Sigalle shares about her experiences as a baby lawyer, a baby mama, and in helping launch and grow a baby legal education startup.  Tune in to hear some of the lessons she has learned from navigating a fast-paced and rewarding law related career and while navigating health challenges and folding two new babies into the mix.  (Plus dealing with a pandemic.  Yep.) Join us next week for part 2!

In this second part of Michael Kahn’s interview with Cedric Ashley, they discuss some of the impacts that COVID-19 has been having on lawyers in their personal and professional lives. Cedric shares some ways to make the most out of the crisis and get through it with a positive and transformative mindset. Also listen as Cedric offers several important points to ponder for any lawyer struggling with career dissatisfaction.  

Michael Kahn interviews Cedric Ashley, a solo attorney and founder of the Ashley Law Firm in Princeton, New Jersey. Cedric spends a copious amount of time working with lawyers and helping them find meaning and satisfaction in their careers and life. In Part I of the interview, Michael and Cedric discuss the importance of finding a job or practice setting that aligns with your personal values in order to enhance overall quality of life.   Join us next week for part 2!

Michael Kahn interviews Alison Cowan, senior director of professional development at Fasken, a leading international law firm based out of Toronto, CA. Alison talks about the importance of cultivating a healthy culture in law firms. She also addresses the challenges that many lawyers go through during the different transition periods of their careers and how to make those shifts easier and less daunting. 

Part 2 of Michael’s interview with Derek LaCroix, Executive Director of the Lawyers Assistance Program of British Columbia, explores some of the negative mindsets that lawyers can be conditioned into from the start of their careers. Often, lawyers can get caught up in perfectionism and relentless comparison—and they have no idea that many of their colleagues are stuck in the same mental traps. Tune in to learn practical strategies for dealing with negative self-talk and hyper- self-criticism. (Spoiler alert: connecting with other lawyers is a HUGE help!)

Michael Kahn interviews our good friend Derek LaCroix, Executive Director of the Lawyers Assistance Program of British Columbia. Tune in to Part 1 to hear Derek’s own story of not-so-much thriving early in his career, and then ultimately learning practical strategies for dealing with the stress and pressures of practicing law.  Michael and Derek discuss several “mindset” shifts and practical tools that all lawyers can use to enjoy greater professional and personal fulfillment. Come back next week for part 2!

Pain and loss--in the many different forms they may show up--are an unavoidable aspect of life, and dealing with them can be immensely draining. Listen in as Chris and Michael chat about the impact that grief can have on lawyers in particular, and practical tools for healing and growing through the grieving process.

Michael Kahn interviews Chris Osborn about his roundabout road to becoming a small firm lawyer and continuing education presenter. Tune in for a healthy dose of laughter, tears (well, referred to, if not actually shed, during the recording), and encouragement for any lawyer who has encountered challenges in discovering where they best fit within the legal profession. 

Welcome to the Thriving Lawyers Podcast. Meet your hosts Chris Osborn and Michael Kahn of Reel Time Creative Learning Experiences. In this episode, Michael and Chris discuss their hopes and purpose for launching this podcast, and what you can expect in future installments. Michael also recounts his journey from practicing lawyer to mental health therapist to his current work  helping lawyers improve their personal and professional satisfaction.