Guardians Of The Flame Podcast

Borderlands is a monthly event where we create a warm hearted space in a Belfast pub for music and reflection on the most pressing issues facing our societies today. The conversation is led by the voices of musicians, activists, civic leaders and artists. This was our Advent event where our theme was Hope. Alan McBride works to advocate for those who lost loved ones in the Troubles in Northern Ireland. His own wife was killed in the Shankill bomb in 1993. He spoke about a book he is compiling about grassroots redemptive stories that emerged from the horror of the Troubles. Denise Bradley works for Corrymeela in the area of Marginalisation. She works with refugee communities and advocates for the victims of Gender Based Violence. Music is from Andy McClenaghan who plays a couple of songs he has written for Borderlands. Also we have two members of Na Leanaí, Fra Sands and Sorcha Turnbull playing some trad tunes and seasonal songs. We hope you enjoy this glimpse into a brave space for sacred stories. Borderlands is an event run by a small collective. Guardians Of The Flame works to record these kinds of voices and events and uses the audio skill of Fra Sands and the filming and editing skills of Josh Eaves.

Brian McLaren is an author, activist and theologian. His many books and his public speaking have been an important resource for Christians seeking a more inclusive faith, a generous orthodoxy. Brian has a pastoral voice that is both challenging but also can be nurturing to those who have been hurt by their experience with faith. In this interview Corrymeela's Public Theology Programme Manager Jonny Clark raises questions about Brian's latest two books Faith Beyond Doubt and Do I Stay Christian.

Dave and Jill Hines work for the Methodist church in south Belfast, in an area called Ballynafeigh off the Ormeau Road. They are imagining what a new community could look like in the most ethnically diverse part of a city not famed for it's diversity. Before this they lived in India for 8 years and dreamed up ways to build up a Community Development NGO in Calicut and Ooty in Kerala and Tamil Nadu in south India. Before that they developed an award winning cafe in Belfast called Common Grounds and were part of leading a church called City Church Belfast. Throughout their marriage they have found a way to build fires of community while being schooled in the tradition of Wesley, Brennan Manning and Amy Carmichael. They bring a perpetual bright eyed idealism with open arms of embrace to everyone, all the time. In many ways they epitomise the idea of being Guardians of the Flame. Dave and Jill are lifelong friends of Jonny and Jenn Clark and it was a privilege to create space for them to tell their story.

Borderlands is an experimental attempt to create space for people from within the Christian faith tradition and those outside. It is trying to be a safe place at a time when many people are looking for spaces of gathering, belonging and a faith that speaks of doubt as well as hope, of values as well as belief. Fr Martin Magill is a parish priest in Belfast who is also the co-founder of the Four Corners Festival among many other projects. Fr Martin is a passionate activist for reconciliation in our divided society. In spite of his very public voice, he is someone who embodies the best of the priestly vocation, the capacity to express vulnerability, devotion and to value the individual in front of him. Jonny Clark interviews Fr Martin about everything from his unique interest in Belfast street names to the vocation of being a priest. Notably Jonny discussed with Fr Martin the funeral of Lyra McKee which he spoke at. Lyra was an LGBTQ+ activist and also journalist who was tragically killed by dissident Republican paramilitaries in April 2019 in the city of Derry/Londonderry. Fr Martin in his sermon, powerfully challenged our perpetually gridlocked local political leaders with words acknowledging the gestures of unity and reconciliation after her death but asking “why…in God's name…does it take the death of a 29 year old woman with her life in front of her to get to this point.” These were some of the most powerful public words we have heard in a long time in Northern Ireland. They received a standing ovation in St Anne's Cathedral and in living rooms all over the country. Fr Martin was creating a Sacred Space, which was the theme of our Belfast-based event, Borderlands that night. Borderlands meets on the second Tuesday of every month, usually in the Pavilion Bar and is described as a Brave Space for Sacred Stories.

Borderlands is an experimental attempt to create space for people from within the Christian faith tradition and those outside. It is trying to be a safe place at a time when many people are looking for spaces of gathering, belonging and a faith that speaks of doubt as well as hope, of values as well as belief. Azadeh Sobout is someone we could describe as both an academic and an activist. But her words have a quality that leave the listener feeling that they are listening to a mystic. Azadeh is an Iranian Muslim who speaks here movingly on the theme of “Sacred Space” for our Belfast-based event Borderlands. Borderlands meets on the second Tuesday of every month, usually in the Pavilion Bar and is described as a Brave Space for Sacred Stories.

Borderlands is an experimental attempt to create space for people from within the Christian faith tradition and those outside. It is trying to be a safe place at a time when many people are looking for spaces of gathering, belonging and a faith that speaks of doubt as well as hope, of values as well as belief. Jenn Clark has spent a life time helping people feel that they belong. She is an expert at making people laugh, leading spaces of community and serving people through food. She is also a storyteller. This is a story she wrote around the theme of “Sacred Space” for our Belfast-based event called Borderlands. Borderlands meets on the second Tuesday of every month, usually in the Pavilion Bar and is described as a Brave Space for Sacred Stories.

Borderlands is an experimental attempt to create space for people with different labels. Many who come and organise the event come from within the Christian faith tradition, Catholic and Protestant. But it also is for those who are from the borderlands of faith. It's a space that seeks to welcome and include the presence and voices of those outside the belief tradition of Christianity. It is trying to be a safe place at a time when many people are looking for spaces of gathering, belonging and a faith that speaks of doubt as well as hope, of values as well as belief. The event typically includes reflections, stories, music and discussion on the public issues facing our society. In November we included 3 people sharing and 2 musicians. The musicians were Maria Nickolay and John McGrath. In addition Jenn Clark, Azadeh Sobout and Fr Martin Magill spoke.

Live from Belfast in June 2022, Borderlands is a monthly event of music, activism, community and reflection, at the intersection of art, justice, reconciliation and faith. Jason Miller is a brilliant pastor from South Bend City Church in Indiana. He paraphrased the Beatitudes in his own words, connecting them to the Holyland where he read them with new eyes, and to our context here in Belfast.

Live from Belfast in June 2022, Borderlands is a monthly event of music, activism, community and reflection, at the intersection of art, justice, reconciliation and faith. Kathleen Gillespie was held at gunpoint while her husband was turned into a human bomb by the IRA in a horrific attack on the British army on 24 October 1990. Anne Walker was in the IRA until leaving and finding her way years later into a peace building workshop that involved telling real stories. Through that she met Kathleen and the two became great friends despite their very different pasts. Today they tell their stories all over, inspiring people to be agents of peace and change in the world. This event was held on the annual Day of Reflection where all communities are encouraged to remember together the pain of the Troubles.

Live from Belfast, Borderlands is a monthly event of music, activism, community and reflection, at the intersection of art, justice, reconciliation and faith. From our Borderlands event back in June, Ramy Taleb tells his story of spending five years in Belfast, Northern Ireland and then moving back to Lebanon to start a peace building charity there called Al Shabiba Risala, which focuses on educating an emerging generation of Lebanese on Reconciliation and Peace.

This interview includes some of the most gruesome details we've recorded in any of our podcasts because they relate to crimes against humanity in war. If ever we would want there to be a Guardian of the Flame of humanity it would be in a court of law when dealing with horrific crimes against the most vulnerable human beings alive today. Justice Teresa Doherty is a remarkably courageous woman who speaks in this interview extensively about a brave career devoted to the rights of the most vulnerable on this planet. It was a privilege to interview Justice Doherty who has served around the world in law and in Northern Ireland in the early days of the Troubles. In recent years she has written some of the most landmark legal opinions which have had ripple effects on cases all over the world, particularly related to the rights of women and girls in wars. In this interview she also spoke of her upbringing as a Catholic girl in pre-civil rights Northern Ireland and of her time in Papua New Guinea. Towards the end of her career she has presided over the Special Court for Sierra Leone which sentenced Liberian warlord Charles Taylor, the first sitting head of state to be convicted of war crimes. The most significant decisions she wrote were related to Gender Based Violence and in particular key opinions on sexual slavery and an opinion on forced marriage as crimes against humanity. She also wrote a definition of the use of a child in conflict as a crime against humanity which was followed afterwards by the International Criminal Court.

Sami Awad is a remarkable Palestinian Christian, an activist and a passionate believer in the power of nonviolence as a strategy to combat oppression and injustice.   The Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to fester and become more intractable. Sami is an inspirational voice that provides real hope and a third way. His organisation is the Holy Land Trust and his talks and articles can be found in many places online. He has spent a night in an Auschwitz hut in an effort to find empathy for those who are his natural enemies, and he has led nonviolent actions around the West Bank protesting the actions of the Israeli military and the policies of the Israeli government.

This podcast originally took place as a live stream recorded on 23rd January. It is a really important conversation on faith and sexuality with a dear friend of ours, John Herron.   John was a pastor in a conservative Pentecostal church for many years, he underwent so called “reparative therapy” which left him no less gay, but all the more isolated and living in a place of shame. That all changed when he was outed and faced rejection and abandonment from his church.    This is a beautiful and powerful story of love conquering religiosity, shame and judgement. Mercy triumphs over judgement and John is a living testimony of that.

Bertie Ahern is the former Taoiseach (Prime Minister) of Ireland. In his role leading the Irish government from 1997 he built relationships with the then new British PM Tony Blair and with the political leaders in Northern Ireland. He played a monumental role in paving the way for the Good Friday Agreement which brought a final peace to the 30 years of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. During our conversation we spoke about Bloody Sunday. This interview is being released just before the 30th January which is the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Bertie Ahern was playing Gaelic Football in Drumcondra on the north side of Dublin on the day it happened. But 26 years later in 1998 he was ushering in a lasting peace in Northern Ireland. Every Prime Minister will leave a legacy domestically and in foreign policy. For us living north of the Irish border Bertie Ahern was one of the most positively consequential leaders. In this interview he speaks of how he became friends with the late Ian Paisley, the firebrand Protestant preacher and politician. We also spoke about deep challenges facing us in the present day by Brexit which Bertie Ahern recognises as a disaster for Ireland. Peace has come in Ireland as grassroots individuals, victims and former combatants have chosen the way of peace. But political leaders have ultimately also paved the way for the peace we enjoy today by being able to make difficult and at times controversial agreements. We have a lot to thank Bertie Ahern for as we reflect on the post-Troubles society we enjoy today.

Pádraigin Ní Uallacháin is a singer-songwriter as well as an academic. She has worked with the likes of celebrated Irish poets Seamus Heaney and Ciaran Carson and has sung and recorded with many Irish folk musicians. She has recorded her own original songs as well as uncovering in her research ancient songs and putting them to music. This is a wide ranging interview where we touch on both her music, her life and career as well as spirituality in Ireland. She also sang a few songs from some of her research and albums. This interview was recorded in the Holy Cross Abbey in Rostrevor. The monks from the Benedictine Abbey kindly let us use their church which is a perfect backdrop for Pádraigin's beautiful and poignant voice. Pádraigin is a national treasure and is another signpost to an Ireland that treasures it's mystical past but in a way that transcends sectarian and religious divides. Her work can be found at www.irishsong.com

Brother Thierry is one of the Benedictine monks from the Holy Cross Abbey in Rostrevor. It is a community of Brothers who came to Northern Ireland to be a presence of reconciliation in the midst of our ongoing religious and ethnic conflict. In normal years thousands come through their doors and just about as many Protestants come to sit at the feet of these holy men as Catholics. They truly are peace makers and their roots go deep. The spirituality of Benedictines is rooted in prayer and silence. We recorded an interview with Brother Thierry early on in our podcasts and it was a conversation full of depth and wisdom. So we wanted to record Brother Thierry on film. We touched on both the depth of Benedictine spirituality and also the residue of mistrust about institutional religion and the Catholic Church in Ireland and in much of the West. This is a warm hearted interview with a man who embodies fortitude, grace and wisdom. These gifts plus a life of prayerfulness offer a way of looking at the world that is perhaps a signpost pointing towards our true home.

Bruce Cockburn is a world renowned singer/songwriter who has been recording albums since 1970. Among his many awards Bruce has been inducted into the Canadian Hall of Fame and has sold millions of albums worldwide. This podcast was recorded in a very basic format on Bruce's daughter's iPhone. The video is obviously not to our usual standard and a Zoom connection limited our ability to make the audio as perfect as normal. Nevertheless we managed to record a really interesting conversation. Bruce spoke of conflict and faith. He spoke of his concern with much of American Christianity, but he also spoke of being welcomed into a church with open arms and unconditional acceptance. He has recently released a few new songs as a video demo in conjunction with his church San Francisco Lighthouse. The songs can be found at https://youtu.be/5ly1fKZa_lQ If you like our podcasts and YouTube videos please like us and rate us on iTunes or wherever you listen. We would love to raise our financial support levels so we can start working on our next documentary. You can support us monthly via Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/guardiansoftheflame

Liam Ó Maonlaí is probably best known as lead singer for the Hothouse Flowers, one of the biggest bands in Ireland in the 90’s, and still loved today. As a band they are still producing music and Liam continues to collaborate with the band and with all of Ireland’s best musicians today. Liam is passionate about the Irish language, his songs are steeped in a mystical spirituality, particularly Songs From The Rain. In this interview we hear not only the story behind some of the songs but he also plays 5 beautiful stirring versions. He plays a song from Songs From The Rain, he plays a completely apt song for the Covid times we are in called Worry Not, also a hauntingly beautiful song that can be used in a Catholic mass written by Seán Ó Riada, and a Sean-nos song. Sean-nos is a very traditional way of singing Irish traditional music. All of this, as well as Liam’s exceptional musicianship and his contemplative spirit gives this interview a unique feel.

Seán Farren has been a local politician in Northern Ireland for over 40 years representing the SDLP. He has much to say about Brexit and the prospects of a lasting peace in Ireland. He is also the chairman of the new foundation that is honouring and building on the legacy of Nobel Peace Prize winner John Hume, the John and Pat Hume Foundation. One of the books Seán has written was “John Hume: Irish Peacemaker” (2015) and indeed Seán was in the room in Clonard Monastery when secret talks were begun with John Hume and Gerry Adams in 1988. Ten years later in 1998 these talks undoubtedly can be seen to have paved the way for the end of thirty years of civil conflict and the robust peace we have lived with in Northern Ireland since 1998’s Good Friday agreement. In this interview we focus a lot on John Hume who passed away in the summer of 2020 and hear Seán’s reflections on this man who became a giant of peace in this land. John Hume said “Difference is of the essence of humanity. Difference is an accident of birth and it should therefore never be the source of hatred or conflict. The answer to difference is to respect it. Therein lies a most fundamental principle of peace: respect for diversity.” This is an interview with a man who has lived through our conflict in the north of Ireland and someone who has played his part in bringing peace here too.

Richard Moore was blinded by a plastic bullet after being shot by a British soldier in Derry. This was 1972, Richard was ten years old and it was just weeks after Bloody Sunday where one of his uncles was killed. Since that time Richard has become something of a modern day saint. I remember hosting him two years ago in Rostrevor and being so blown away by what I heard. That day he quoted his friend the Dalai Llama: “we as humans have spent centuries developing the human mind, but we need to start to work on developing the human heart”. Richard is a down to earth man who is not used to complaining. He speaks in this interview, not about his lust for vengeance, but of his compulsion to forgive. In fact he speaks of developing a friendship in later life with the soldier who blinded him. This former military man did not initially say sorry. In fact it took him years. Finally he seemed to give in to the weight of mercy he was shown and expressed a “sorry” for what he had done to a 10 year old boy running through a school playground at Rosemount Primary School. Despite a lifetime of blindness Richard speaks of only a few times he dwelt on the sadness of losing his sight. He says he will often show a picture of his two girls to audiences he is speaking to. He says “you’re doing something I’ll never be able to do: you’re looking at my girls.” He then went on to talk about the gift of forgiveness, how it can’t change the past but how it can change the future. He has developed a charity “Children in Crossfire” which has impacted the lives of countless children around the world. This is an episode of profound hope in the midst of tragedy.

This is a fascinating interview with one of the U.K. and Republic of Ireland’s leading public health experts. Dr Gabriel Scally has been a regular commentator on News channels for the last year, often taking the British government to task for their failings in their dealing with the Covid-19 pandemic. He has been serving society as a doctor for over 40 years with public health being his main focus in that time. In this interview we chart his life from growing up on the Falls Road in West Belfast during the civil rights movement and early days of the Troubles, his travels as a young man to Chile, Angola and Burkina Faso, and some of the many achievements in his career. It is fascinating and heart wrenching to hear him describe his work on the failings in the Republic of Ireland on the Cervical Check programme. What comes shining through in this episode is Dr Scally’s fierce determination to advocate for those most marginalised in society and to advocate for Public Health policies that will benefit all of those in society. We also touch on the subject of abortion. This is obviously one of the most divisive subjects in many Western societies. I was keen to create a space for someone like Dr Scally to articulate what would have motivated him in his advocacy for reproductive rights in Northern Ireland. As we try to build a broad catalogue of podcasts dealing with all of life, this episode adds a new dimension.

Beryl Quigley appears in our documentary telling the story of how her husband, Bill McConnell, was killed by the IRA. Her story is repeated in this podcast where she adds more detail. Several years after her husband’s death she remarried Peter Quigley. Jonny Clark has known Peter and Beryl since the early 90’s and here he allows them to each tell their stories. Peter’s life is one of sadness and redemption. Both speak compellingly about their Christian faith and how it has lead them to walk the path of forgiveness. As people of faith they have made a life’s work out of courageously crossing boundaries that were considered taboo by many in the church. They share a simple faith that is simultaneously uncompromising, profound and one which is steeped in kindness and acceptance. An interesting contribution in this interview are a couple of Peter’s “thoughts from the day” which he regularly shares on BBC Radio Ulster.

Bruce Clark has been a correspondent for some of the worlds biggest news organisations over the last three decades: the Financial Times, Reuters, The Times and currently the Economist. He was based in Moscow in the final days of Communism and the fall of the Soviet Union. Following this he covered contexts all around Europe and notably for this podcast we talk of how he covered the Balkans in the mid 90’s and the Dayton agreement which brought the Bosnian war to an end. His insight into efforts to bring justice following conflict is fascinating. Bruce is also an author having written extensively about Russia and Greece and he is a cousin of mine. What a privilege it was to interview him. This podcast seeks to look at places with conflict and the roots of these often tribal divisions. Bruce is the first guest we have interviewed who is fluent in both Russian and Greek and well placed to comment on these nations as well as the growth of populism around the world at this unique moment in history. Finally, this conversation is enriched by Bruce’s deep understanding of Biblical Greek. We touch on theology and the importance of his deep Orthodox Christian faith.

James Greer shares powerfully from his experience of membership in the UDA, prison and then starting a new life as a bridge builder. A poignant moment is sharing his entry to the UDA, pledging loyalty to it while having his hand on a Bible. This joining of violence with Religious belonging and identity undergirds what the Guardians Of The Flame project is all about. How do we celebrate the lives of people who have fanned the flame of humanity regardless of what faith they are. And how do we challenge the toxic religious nationalism that can become destructive in societies. James Greer swears no religious allegiance now but he has an overflowing humour and humanity that make his friendship with those who would have been his enemies so poignant.

Colum Sands is a hugely respected and much loved Irish folk music singer and songwriter. As well as penning a myriad of songs he has become more and more engaged in environmental campaigning. He led a campaign to recognise an “Invisible Tree”. This Oak tree on the edge of Rostrevor’s ancient Oak Wood was conveniently absent from developers plans to build inner city style apartment blocks with an underground car park on the site. Indeed, without a campaign like this one they would have “paved paradise and put up a parking lot”. Colum is one of Ireland’s most gifted songwriters and story tellers. This interview traces his career with The Sands Family band, tells the story of songs written during The Troubles and his recent environmental activism with RARE (Rostrevor Action Respecting the Environment). Colum is a brilliant human. In this outdoor, socially distanced (and very cold) interview we try to catch the magic and beauty of Colum and his music. To see the work of RARE find them on Instagram at @rostrevor_rare, Twitter @rostrevorRARE or Facebook @rostrevorRARE. His music, including his brilliant new album can be found at www.columsands.com

“We were chained but they were chained to their guns”, said Brian Keenan after being released from 4 1/2 years of captivity and brutalisation as a hostage of the Islamic Jihad during the Lebanese civil war. This is a fascinating interview. I believe there is a greatness about Brian Keenan. He has suffered more than most should ever have to in one life time. From growing up in the back streets of Belfast, he travelled to Beirut as an English teacher during a civil war. There he became a hostage. But today Brian is more like a mystic. He has a profound humanity and sees beauty in others. It was extremely moving to hear him talking about one of his captors who treated him with a particularly malicious cruelty. He said if he was to meet ‘Said’ he would want to sit and have a coffee with him and ask him what was going on in his head in those days. Why did he treat him so cruelly? I saw no desire for revenge in Brian, just a generous heartedness and profound wisdom. Among several other books Brian detailed his time as a hostage in his critically acclaimed book “An Evil Cradling”.

On 24 October 1990 Patsy Gillespie was chained into his seat and made to drive into an army base with a van carrying over 1200 pounds of explosives. His wife Kathleen Gillespie and some of her family were held at gunpoint until the bomb detonated. Patsy has become known as the “human bomb”. He saved lives as he waved his arms and shouted for soldiers to run. 5 soldiers and Patsy died that day. Kathleen Gillespie, Patsy’s widow, is a remarkable woman of courage, passion and empathy.   In this interview we speak both to Kathleen and to Anne Walker. Anne is a woman of warmth and courage. Anne had been a Republican activist in Derry/Londonderry in the late 80’s. Her job was moving weapons and bomb making equipment around. Today Kathleen and Anne are friends. They share in this remarkable interview about the horrors of war and conflict. They share about courage and about the sadness over past decisions. They also share a remarkable story of grace and redemption.   Today these two women are firm and deep friends. 30 years ago the IRA was committed to militarily defeating British rule in Northern Ireland. Patsy came from the Catholic/nationalist community but because he was working in a British army base he was regarded as a legitimate target by the IRA. When we look back at those years we can see that it was a meaningless cycle of violence. It is deeply moving to hear Anne share about her horror at what Republicans did in the murder of Kathleen’s husband. The beauty of the grace Kathleen showed years later to Anne is awe inspiring. Listen to learn, and listen to become part of the change we need to see in the world. This is an amazingly moving interview. Anne and Kathleen are heroes. They show us how the cycle of violence can be stopped, with grace.

Gareth Higgins is a story teller and violence reduction activist. He grew up in Belfast, Northern Ireland and has been living in America for the last ten years. Many moons ago he wrote the book “How movies helped to save my soul”. He was the founding Director of the Wild Goose festival and he is also one of Jonny Clark’s oldest friends.  This is an engaging podcast that includes a real tangible framework for transforming conflict. At the same time it is a conversation that traces Gareth’s life, his move to America, his friendship with the likes of Walter Wink and John O’Donohue and writing a book with Brian McLaren.  Check out Gareth’s new book “How Not To Be Afraid” and the brilliant magazine theporchmagazine.com

Moya Brennan is one of Ireland’s most well known and beloved singers. Her band Clannad are known all over the world and their music is a wondrous blend of Celtic fusion and traditional irish folk music. Moya is a beautiful soul with a deep faith who loves the environment. Clannad came to Rostrevor last summer in July 2019 to play at the village’s famous folk festival, Fiddlers Green. We recorded this interview the night after their amazing sold out gig.

This podcast is the story of the remarkable work of Ramy and Roula Taleb, how they journeyed to Belfast and are now making peace in Lebanon. For the last 18 years Jonny and Jenn Clark and their team have raised funds for young Christians from areas of conflict to spend 6-12 months in Belfast or Rostrevor, Northern Ireland learning about reconciliation and how their faith can build peace in their communities. Ramy was the first Lebanese trainee and landed into Belfast in 2005, barely speaking English but with a deep hunger to learn from the experience. He ended up spending five years in Belfast, particularly working in the Shankill and Falls areas. One of the projects Ramy focused on in Belfast was a project which takes Forgiveness education into many Protestant and Catholic schools in the city. By 2010 Ramy had married the beautiful Roula and together they started a new life back in Lebanon, ultimately starting a sister project of the Belfast work called the Foundation for Forgiveness and Reconciliation (ffrlebanon.org). The work in Lebanon is unprecedented in it’s radical commitment to building bridges throughout the sectarian divides of this post-civil war country. Ramy and Roula are courageously taking forgiveness, reconciliation and peace-building training to as many people as they can and are often doing it with what little resources they can find. If you are looking to support a grass-roots charity in the Middle East you should check out the work of FFR and get behind them. This work in Lebanon is something all of the GOTF team are passionate about and it’s why Josh Eaves (Instagram: @josheaves1) and Jonny Clark continue to be involved in different ways, including our plans to make our next Guardians Of The Flame documentary there. This episode was as usual recorded by the brilliant Fra Sands of @safeplacestudios. The music in our podcasts is by the brilliant Irish folk band @naleanai

I have had the privilege of meeting Assaad Chaftari a few times now. He is a gentle man, a man of peace, a man of forgiveness who nevertheless witnessed and indeed played an active part in the horror of the Lebanese civil war. Assaad was a senior intelligence officer in the Christian militia called the “Lebanese Forces” and was responsible for the deaths of many. Assaad’s life changed through being introduced to the work of “Initiatives of Change” and as he began to turn his back on the sectarianism of the Civil War and embrace Reconciliation. In 2000 he came to prominence by printing a letter of apology in all of the Lebanese national newspapers. He apologised for what he had done, to those who he had killed and to their families and he offered forgiveness to those who had tried to kill him. Assaad has said “I would venture into the jaws of hell if my story could shift just one person's views and move them away from violence.” This is the first of our podcasts where we look at Lebanon and the tragedy of that country but also the beauty of those like Assaad who seek to pursue peace in the face of the devastation of war. Assaad is a member of a peace group called “Fighters for Peace” which brings together former enemies from the Lebanese Civil War and uses their stories to change hearts in the Lebanon of today. In this podcast we don’t discuss the current events of political change and unrest in the country. We focus more on the universal themes of peace and reconciliation that have been out worked through Assaad’s life. This is one of our most important podcasts I think we have released because it deals with such first hand experience of war.

Sheikh Dr Muhammad Al-Hussaini came to the attention of many when in 2015 he chose to defend in court the Pentecostal pastor Rev Jim McConnell from Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle, Belfast’s biggest church. McConnell had preached a sermon where he categorised Islam as “heathen” and “satanic” and a “doctrine spawned in hell”. Yet Muhammad defended the pastor and developed a friendship with him. In court he defended McConnell’s right to free-speech. Muhammad is a Muslim from London with not only a love for Irish folk music but a commitment to building relationships of peace with Christians and Jews and those of other faiths from his own. Over the years he has visited Rostrevor a number of times and has become a strong friend of ours. One of Muhammad’s firm convictions is that we should not seek a bland peace between faiths. Rather we should be able to rigorously debate and defend our differences in a way that does not demonise but builds understanding through authentic dialogue. He calls this a “higher quality of disagreement”. This phrase has become one of the key back bones to a series of events at the centre Jonny leads called An Cuan. These events have been convened by Tommy Sands, Jonny Clark and www.artsawonder.com a local community arts and reconciliation initiative.

Peter Adams is a remarkable and courageous man of peace. He plays a crucial role in building community relations and sustaining genuine peace through dialogue and relationships in a very fractured context. Luton, on the northern edge of London is where Peter works and has been known as a place where both the far right English Defence League emerged, and a small group of extremist Muslims operated. Peter is one of a number of amazing faith leaders from both the Christian and Muslim communities who are leading the way in building bridges in their community. Peter has been awarded the Outstanding Citizen award by the mayor among other commendations. His whole work can be summed up as “creating a space of grace”. Follow Peter on @pgmadams or @stmaryspeace and his blog is reconciliationtalk.org/

During the protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline, David Archambault was the leader of the Standing Rock nation. As the tribal Chairman he had the challenging role of negotiating with the oil executives, politics, Barack Obama, activists and his ow people. David articulated the reality of historic trauma of his people, and the 40% poverty rate among Native people. He spoke about his father's experience of boarding schools, where kids as young as 4 would be forcibly removed from their parents and placed in schools where it was attempted to 'kill the Indian, save the man'. David is a peaceable, humble man. The Native American understanding of the interconnectedness of all of the environment was beautiful. In the face of growing inequality that is manifesting in a deepening climate crisis, humanity will do well to be lead by a way of life exemplified by the indigenous populations of North America. 

Tommy Sands is one of Ireland’s most well known folk singers. He has played both with some of the biggest names in music around the world and has also spent time teaching prisoners to write songs. Tommy is also a peace activist and has been an important voice for reconciliation in Northern Ireland since the 1970’s. Many of his songs are calls for peace, like “There were Roses”, and the song he wrote with Pete Seeger “The Music of Healing”. Tommy and his wife and I and a small collective in our village have also been involved in the last 5 years in pursuing a “higher quality of disagreement” among religious leaders and political leaders in Ireland. Tommy has a voice of kindness and magnanimity, but one that is also passionate to include those who are left out in society. It’s a privilege to interview him for this podcast, the video of which can also be watched on our Guardians Of The Flame YouTube channel. Tommy’s book and music can be ordered through his website tommysands.com including his brilliant latest cd “Fair Play To You All”. ** We’re grateful for all of your support through Patreon and by rating or reviewing these podcasts on iTunes or wherever you listen to them. We’re also hugely grateful to the Community Relations Council of Northern Ireland for their support of this season of podcasts.

Stephen Travers is an inspiring figure who was one of two survivors of the Miami Showband Massacre. The story of the bombing of his band was recently featured in the Netflix series “ReMastered”. Today Stephen is a passionate voice for reconciliation and also for the truth about historic injustices to be made known. The Miami Showband were one of the biggest of Ireland’s showbands in the mid 70’s. They regularly attracted crowds into the thousands. On 31st July 1975 the infamous Glenanne Gang gunned down three of the band’s members after a bomb the gang was attempting to plant on the band’s bus exploded prematurely. Stephen founded the Truth and Reconciliation Platform (TARP) with Eugene Reavey who is featured in our Guardians Of The Flame documentary.

Cathleen Falsani is an American journalist and author. She specializes in the intersection of religion/spirituality/faith and culture, and has been a staff writer for the Chicago Sun Times, The Chicago Tribune, Sojourners Magazine, and Religion News Service. Cathleen also writes for U2.com. She was the 2005 Religion Writer of the Year, as awarded by the Religion Newswriters Association, and has twice been a finalist for the Templeton Religion Reporter of the Year award. Just before Christmas, Cathleen and Jarrod McKenna and I walked the 200 mile Irish border marking the looming spectre of Brexit and this polarised moment with a pilgrimage of prayer and reconciliation. Cathleen has Irish roots and has travelled here many times. Our conversation traversed the themes of her recent pilgrimage zig-zagging across the Irish border, the current state of this divided world, a past interview with Barack Obama and what we can learn from U2. This is a really interesting and topical conversation and was one of the easiest interviews I’ve ever done. Cathleen is a natural communicator and speaks with wisdom and tenderness. We also spoke about her most recent book The End Of Hunger.

This is a fascinating, must-listen conversation with Jason Miller, pastor of a growing church in Indiana, USA called South Bend City Church. Our conversation traverses theological themes regarding how we read the Bible, to Jason’s passion for peacemaking that has emerged from his experiences in the Middle East and Sri Lanka. We also mention the now famous son of South Bend, it’s mayor and current Presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. Also joining us for this episode is Dave Armstrong from Redeemer Central Church in Belfast.

Jonny and Jenn Clark and their friends Dave and Jill Hines run a monthly event in Belfast called Borderlands. Held in a pub it is a space where faith and doubt meet, where songs and stories become sacred liturgies and where a spiritual home is created outside the walls of traditional churches. It is for Protestants and Catholics, for those with faith and those searching and unsure what they believe. This episode includes an interview with Alan McBride who is an activist for peace and reconciliation, and whose wife was killed in the 1993 Shankill Road bomb. It also includes stories from Paul Hutchinson, a well known poet and story-teller and former centre director of the Corrymeela community. Jenn Clark shares a reflection on the Advent theme of waiting, and there are two beautiful old songs that are heard in homes up and down the country at this time of year. This is heart warming, soul stirring stories and reflections that will give you hope this Christmas. It was recorded on the 11th December, the day before the UK elections.

It was a privilege to conduct this interview along with my wife Jenn, with Lisa Sharon Harper. From Ferguson to New York to Germany and South Africa, Lisa Sharon Harper leads trainings and helps mobilize clergy and community leaders around shared values for the common good. A prolific speaker, writer and activist, Ms. Harper is the founder and president of FreedomRoad.us and author of several books including “The Very Good Gospel”. Walter Brueggemann said that Lisa witnesses “to a saving transformative, reconciling faith that is indeed “very good”.” In 2015 The Huffington Post recognized her as one of “50 Powerful Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day.” Most recently, Relevant Magazine recognized The Very Good Gospel as one of “Six Books that Will Change the Way You See the World” and Ms. Harper as one of “Seven Leaders to Follow in 2017. As well as looking at the context of America and racism, she speaks candidly about her journey to find her Irish roots...

Robert Enright Ph.D. is the author of 120 publications and seven books. He is one of the world’s foremost scholars in the field of forgiveness. Not only has he studied forgiveness exhaustively, he has developed a curriculum that has been used in prisons and schools in some of the most conflicted parts of the world. We have worked with him in Belfast, Northern Ireland since 2002 in his phenomenal effort to deliver forgiveness education to many hundreds of primary school children every year. 

An introduction to season 2 of the Guardians Of The Flame podcast, coming soon...

Jonny joined well known American writer, preacher and pastor Jonathan Martin at the Open Skies festival for a conversation on navigating this polarised time in history. It’s a conversation where we try to answer the question of how and when we are called to speak out about the issues of the day such as nationalism, populism, injustice and white supremacy.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci is an author and community activist, living at the intersection of faith, sexuality, and imagination. He has served with YWAM (Youth With A Mission) for 25 years and has authored several books on faith, justice, & missional living.

Dr. Samuel Sarpiya is a fascinating man with a unique perspective on race in America. Samuel has over 20-years’ experience as a businessman, educator, social worker, community developer, Christian leader, and expert in Kingian nonviolence.  Samuel is Nigerian but lived in South Africa before moving to Rockford, Illinois in 2009 to pastor a church. In 2012 he co-founded the Center for Nonviolence and Conflict Transformation, which educates and trains organizations including police departments and schools in nonviolent conflict resolution and reconciliation. 

Peter Rollins is an internationally recognised thinker, speaker and academic, as well as an old friend of Jonny's. This is a conversation where they not only reminisce on the past but also look at what faith looks like today. Peter has made a profession out of breaking people’s religious boxes and slaying their holy cows. This interview is no different.

In this episode Jonny is being interviewed by Australian activist and advocate for refugees and asylum seekers, Jarrod McKenna. This is a shared podcast so Jarrod will also be releasing it on his Inverse podcast. The interview was recorded in Rostrevor and covers Jonny’s personal background, some stories of his work and the theology of reconciliation that underpins it.

René August is an activist, theologian and Anglican priest, she grew up under apartheid in the Mitchell's Plain coloured township in Cape Town. For René, theology is about finding a Jesus who is not some pet toy of western consumerism but the incarnated embodied Christ who was born into poverty, grew up under foreign occupation and lived a generous life of selfless compassion to all he met. René also speaks about growing up under apartheid, working with and being a friend of Archbishop Desmond Tutu as well as her work in South Africa with the organisation 'Warehouse'.

Br Thierry is a Benedictine monk and is part of the community of the Holy Cross monastery in Rostrevor. Jonny speaks with him about prayer, the life of a Benedictine monk and the Benedictine spirituality, and reconciliation. Br Thierry is a wonderful man with a profound and yet gracious insight into human existence and the life of faith. 

In this episode Jonny talks with Antoinette Mushimiyimana as she shares her story of surviving the Rwandan genocide after losing her family, and how she began her own journey of forgiveness years later. 

Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet, peace maker, theologian and activist. He is the leader of The Corrymeela Community, the oldest peace and reconciliation community in Northern Ireland. In addition to these aspects of his work, Jonny also speaks with Pádraig about his experiences of working in a largely evangelical organisation whilst navigating being a gay man within Christian faith structures.