Podcasts about methodist

Share a commentFires, riots, and a mother praying under an apron—this is the untidy ground where a spiritual movement took root. We step into the world of Susanna Wesley, a pastor's daughter who faced poverty, public hostility, and staggering loss, yet stitched her home together with steady practices and an unshakable trust in God. England sat in a moral fog, pulpits droned without conviction, and even executions sold like theater. In that setting, Susanna's daily choices created a quiet counterculture that outlasted the chaos.We trace her journey from a mud-floor parsonage to the night a neighbor's human ladder pulled six-year-old John from a burning home. We sit with a marriage marked by sharp disagreements and debt, where Samuel Wesley's misjudgments and absences deepened the strain. And we examine Susanna's small, repeatable acts of faith: the “apron over the head” prayer time, the weekly hour of one-on-one counsel for each child, the insistence on Scripture shaping minds and manners. Her story holds both pain and paradox—several children wandering or wounded, others, like John and Charles, carrying a methodical faith into streets and chapels that needed awakening.Rather than a tidy formula, we offer an honest ledger: faithful parenting without guarantees, structure without control, courage without applause. You'll hear how the famed “Methodist” method mirrored habits formed at home, how Charles's hymns trained hearts to sing doctrine, and how John's pulpit design anticipated riots sparked by sermons against slavery. The thread through it all is a woman who chose to “fill a little space” if God would be glorified, trusting that perseverance, not perfection, leaves the deeper imprint.If this story moves you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs courage, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Your support helps more listeners find these grounded, hope-filled histories.Stephen's latest book, Legacies of Light, Volume 2, is our gift for your special donation to our ministry. Follow this link for information or to donate:https://www.wisdomonline.org/mp/legaciesSupport the showStephen's latest book, The Disciples Prayer, is available now. https://www.wisdomonline.org/store/view/the-disciples-prayer-hardback

DateFebruary 1, 2026SynopsisIn this sermon, we continue our series, Building the Beloved Community: A Blueprint from Dream to Reality, by diving into the structural integrity of the 'frame.' We move past the foundation of 'somebodiness' to see how the prophet Micah's call reveals the essential, non-negotiable components: to do justice, embrace hesed (faithful love), and walk humbly with God. These three elements are the core beams and joists of a life of faith, ensuring that your efforts do not collapse into self-righteousness, cheap charity, or burnout, so the Beloved Community you're building can actually bear weight.ReferencesScripture: Micah 6:1–8About The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

In this episode, Monica N. Wharton, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer at Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare, joins the podcast to discuss the organization's Path Forward initiative and Vision 2030 strategy. She shares how Methodist Le Bonheur is prioritizing growth and access, aligning operations around long-term goals, and launching new initiatives to meet the needs of patients and communities in the year ahead.

METHODISM Podcast Episode 5: IT'S ALL ABOUT UNITYHow did the “UNITED” become a part of “United Methodism?” What DOES Christian UNITY mean? Have you ever wondered what Methodism is? Or maybe what makes up the core of what United Methodist Christians believe? Well, this is the Way — or at least this worship series will help us to understand more about the methods of Methodists. In this 5th episode of the Methodism Podcast we'll hear Senior Pastor Beth LaRocca-Pitts' sermon on how Methodism is All About Unity.—You can listen, watch, & subscribe to the Podcast on:+ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OGUMC/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠+ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0nGIcxSt5ToGbAcs0dmua2?si=3328d0411f194865+ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oak-grove-umc-podcast/id1695962000—Sunday Worship: 8:30 & 11am* Traditional Worship and 1045am* Modern Worship.*livestreamed at YouTube.com/ogumc#methodism #umc #ogumc #connectionalism #ngumc

In this podcast, Dr. Chris Lohrstorfer joins me to unpack a frequent misunderstanding in Wesleyan theology: the idea that we simply “have a free will” in the doctrine of salvation.John Wesley and the Methodist tradition do affirm human responsibility and the ability to respond to God—but not through an inherent, independent free will untouched by sin. Instead, Wesley emphasized that sin binds the human will, rendering us unable to turn to God on our own. This is where prevenient grace comes in: God's initiating, enabling grace that goes before us, restoring a measure of freedom so we can graciously respond to His work in Christ.Chris and I walk through this doctrine carefully, aiming to bring clarity to what it truly means to have a grace-enabled response to God's actions on our behalf through the person of Jesus. We address the common error of overemphasizing “free will” without anchoring it in divine grace, and explore how this fits into the broader Wesleyan understanding of salvation.Whether you're exploring Arminian theology, wrestling with questions of predestination and choice, or simply want a clearer picture of Methodist beliefs on freedom and grace, this episode offers thoughtful, biblically grounded insight.I think you'll enjoy this one—tune in for a clarifying discussion on one of the most debated topics in soteriology!Youtube - https://youtu.be/WkN-wqTUTcEAudio - https://andymilleriii.com/media/podcastApple -  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/more-to-the-story-with-dr-andy-miller/id1569988895?uo=4If you are interested in learning more about my two full-length video-accompanied courses, Contender: Going Deeper in the Book of Jude andHeaven and Other Destinations: A Biblical Journey Beyond this World , visit andymilleriii.com/coursesAnd don't forget about my most recent book, Contender, which is available on Amazon! Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching - Recently, I updated this PDF document and added a 45-minute teaching video with slides, explaining this tool. It's like a mini-course. If you sign up for my list, I will send this free resource to you. Sign up here - www.AndyMillerIII.com or Five Steps to Deeper Teaching and Preaching. Today's episode is brought to you by Wesley Biblical Seminary. Interested in going deeper in your faith? Check out our certificate programs, B.A., M.A.s, M.Div., and D.Min degrees. You will study with world-class faculty and the most racially diverse student body in the country. www.wbs.eduIf this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a review! For more from Andy Miller III, visit andymilleriii.com or follow @andymilleriii on X.Thanks too to Phil Laeger for my podcast music. You can find out about Phil's music at https://www.laeger.net

In this episode, Monica N. Wharton, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer at Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare, joins the podcast to discuss the organization's Path Forward initiative and Vision 2030 strategy. She shares how Methodist Le Bonheur is prioritizing growth and access, aligning operations around long-term goals, and launching new initiatives to meet the needs of patients and communities in the year ahead.

Today we have an official challenge filed regarding Tommy Tuberville's residency status as the gubernatorial campaign kicks into gear. Also we have a couple of lawmaking updates and the passing of a Methodist preacher. Plus, the quick story of an Alabama who became Lincoln's pick for a Reconstruction-era governor in Texas. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to Practically Pastoring. In this episode, we pull two real questions from Reddit and get painfully practical.Question 1: A rural Methodist pastor has seen real growth, but the “old guard” is wearing him down with constant complaints and unreasonable expectations.Question 2: A bi-vocational pastor/CTO is overloaded and torn between an IT master's (paid for by work) and a doctorate in Bible exposition, while trying to protect his health and family time. Timestamps / Chapters00:00 — Intro + why Reddit questions hit so hard00:29 — Question 1: “The old guard is making me miserable” (rural Methodist church)01:14 — The complaint list (and why some of it is wild)02:42 — Committees, bureaucracy, and the shadow side of church systems05:16 — “They want a chaplain” and resetting expectations for pastoral care07:10 — Perception is reality: communication, tone, and leadership clarity09:32 — The 80/20 rule: it feels like “everyone,” but it's usually not10:49 — Leverage you don't realize you have (and who to call)12:30 — Ad: Practically Pastoring Conference (Feb 9–11, 2026)14:50 — Ad: Church Merch (quality merch people actually want)15:53 — Question 2: Bi-vocational pastor/CTO overwhelmed and choosing degrees18:25 — Stewardship, margin, health, and family: what can you actually carry?19:38 — Prioritizing earning potential and ministry margin21:27 — Andrew's offer: email if you want to talk doctorates at Liberty23:26 — Frank's take: bi-vocational life has limits, and that's okay26:09 — Free learning options (seminary resources, YouTube, Greek tools)28:25 — Closing + subscribe + conference reminderLinks from the show:Listen anywhere: ⁠⁠https://practicallypastoring.com/⁠⁠Join our Facebook Group: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/groups/practicallypastoring⁠⁠Follow us in Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/practicallypastoring⁠⁠Church Merch - https://www.promotionsguy.com/churchmerchHosts:

On this Salcedo Storm Podcast:Jennifer Bridges is a registered. She was on of 400 people fired from Houston Methodist on June 22 for refusing to take the China-virus shot. She is now suing.

METHODISM Podcast Episode 4: IT'S ALL ABOUT CONNECTIONHave you ever wondered what Methodism is? Or maybe what makes up the core of what United Methodist Christians believe? Well, this is the Way — or at least this worship series will help us to understand more about the methods of Methodists. In this 4th episode of the Methodism Podcast we'll hear Pastor Melissa's sermon on how Methodism is All About Connection.You can listen, watch, & subscribe to the Podcast on:+ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OGUMC/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠+ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0nGIcxSt5ToGbAcs0dmua2?si=3328d0411f194865+ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oak-grove-umc-podcast/id1695962000—Sunday Worship: 8:30 & 11am* Traditional Worship and 1045am* Modern Worship.*livestreamed at YouTube.com/ogumc#methodism #umc #ogumc #connectionalism #ngumc

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Protecting your ideas can be the difference between building momentum and watching someone else run with your work. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with patent attorney and entrepreneur Devin Miller to explore what founders and business owners really need to know about patents, trademarks, and intellectual property. Devin shares how his background in engineering, startups, and law shaped his approach to innovation, and he breaks down the real differences between provisional and non-provisional patents in clear, practical terms. We talk about common mistakes entrepreneurs make, how legal protection supports growth instead of slowing it down, and why understanding intellectual property early can help you compete with confidence. I believe this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and a stronger foundation for protecting what you work so hard to create. Highlights: 00:01:18 – Hear how growing up in a small town shaped Devin's approach to problem-solving and business.00:12:53 – Learn why Devin combined engineering, business, and law instead of choosing a single career path.00:19:32 – Discover how a student competition turned into a real wearable technology startup.00:30:57 – Understand the clear difference between patents, trademarks, and copyrights.00:33:05 – Learn when a provisional patent makes sense and when it does not.00:53:52 – Discover what practical options exist when competitors copy or knock off your product. About the Guest: Devin Miller is the founder of Miller IP, a firm launched in 2018 that helps startups and small businesses protect their inventions and brands without breaking the bank. He's overseen over a thousand patent and trademark filings with a 95 percent success rate on patents and an 85 percent success rate on trademarks, making sure garage inventors and side hustlers get the same high-quality service as big tech. Before starting his firm, Devin spent years at large law firms working with clients like Intel and Amazon, but he found his true passion in helping scrappy entrepreneurs turn ideas into assets. He blends legal know how with an entrepreneur's mindset, offering flat fee packages, DIY legal tools, and hosting webinars and a podcast series to demystify IP. A lifelong runner who knocks out 10+ miles a day and 30-40 miles daily biking (except Sunday), Devin listens to audiobooks and podcasts while training for marathons. When he's not drafting office action responses or co-hosting Inventive Journey, you might catch him brainstorming the next Inventive Youth program or sipping coffee while sketching partnership agreements. Ways to connect with Devin**:** If you'd like to talk strategy or swap running playlist recs, feel free to schedule a chat at http://strategymeeting.com LinkedIn profile  https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawwithmiller/ Firm website [https://www.lawwithmiller.com](https://www.lawwithmiller.com "https://www.lawwithmiller.com") About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello to all of you, wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to or watching or both unstoppable mindset and I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Devin Miller, who founded the company, Miller IP, and he'll tell us all about that and what that means and so on as we go through this. But I will tell you that he is a lawyer. He deals with patents and other things and a lot of stuff relating to startups. I think that's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. So without any further ado, as it were, Devin, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Well, we're glad. We're glad you're here. Can you hear me? Okay, now I hear you. Devin Miller  02:06 Well, we're sorry for the delay, but I said I'm excited to be here and looking forward to chatting. Michael Hingson  02:11 Well, perfect. Well, let's start. I love to always do this. Let's start kind of at the beginning. Why don't you tell us about the early Devon, growing up and all that? Devin Miller  02:21 You know, I I'm happy to do. I don't know there's anything that probably stands out. I was probably fairly typical. So I was raised in a religious family, so we're attended church regularly every week. And I had a couple sisters, an older and a younger one, and was went through, went through schooling and or studied, probably the typical course. So I don't know there's anything stands out. I was in a small town, so grew up as, probably not as small as I'd like it to be anymore, but a small farming town, and it was, it was kind of always enjoyed the small town fill, and actually am back to being in that same hometown where I live now with my family. But yeah, so I did that, and I did probably the at the time, the typical thing with the it's growing up with kids and sports and doing things, and went through high school and and after that, jumped or went off to college. But I don't know if there's anything in particular that stands out in my mind, other than probably, at least in my mind, a pretty typical childhood and upbringing, but enjoyed it nonetheless. But happy to provide any details or I can jump into a bit about college. Michael Hingson  03:38 Well, where did you go to college? Devin Miller  03:40 Yeah, so I went to Brigham, young university, just or BYU, just out here in Utah. So I went off to so, or I graduated high school and I went off to a year of college. So I went off to BYU, kind of intending to go into electrical engineering, which is what I or one of the degrees I ended up studying with, and then I did that for a year, and after which I went off and did a served a religious mission for my church, so Church of Jesus Christ, or Latter Day Saints, otherwise nicknamed Mormon. So I went off and went to Taiwan for about two years. So didn't have any idea, even at that point where Taiwan was and certainly didn't know the language, but when studied that, or they have a training center where you get an opportunity to study it for about three months. So I studied it and then went off to Taiwan and served that religious mission for my church for a couple years before coming back to the high school, or good, not the high school to college to continue my studies. Michael Hingson  04:43 I several, several comments. One, I know what you mean about small hometowns. We moved from Chicago, where I was born, to California when I was five, we moved to a town called Palmdale, and it was a very small rural town about 60. Five miles north of Los Angeles. I don't know what the population was when we first moved there, but it couldn't have been more than 1000 or 1500 people spread out over a little bit of a distance. For me, it was great, because without there being a lot of traffic, I was able to do things I might not have done nearly as well in Chicago things like riding a bike, learning to ride a bike and walking to school and and not ever fearing about walking to school for any reasons, including being blind. But oftentimes I once I learned how to do it, I rode my own bike to school and locked it in the bike rack and then rode home and all that. But then Palmdale started to grow and I'm not quite sure what the population is today, but I live in a town about 55 miles east of Palmdale called Victorville, and as I described Victorville growing up, it was not even a speck on a radar scope compared to the small town of Palmdale, but we we moved down to Southern California from the Bay Area my wife and I to be closer to family and so on. In 2014 we wanted to build a house for Karen, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. So we wanted to get a a house that would be accessible. And my gosh, the only place we could find any property was Victorville. And at that time, in 2014 it had 115,000 people in it. It has grown. Now it Devin Miller  06:31 has grown. And it tends to be that, you know, it feels like everybody's always kind of chasing the small town then, or people find out about it. Everybody moves in. It's no longer a small town, and then you're off to chasing the the next small town, wherever that might be. So it's kind of a perpetual cycle of of chasing that small or at least for the people to like it. Not everybody loves it, but I'm certainly a proponent of chasing that small town feel from from place to places, as you're trying to or trying to find or recreate what you probably grew up with. So it is a it is a cycle that everybody I think is chasing, Michael Hingson  07:09 yeah, well, for me now, my wife passed away in 2022 we were married 40 years. And so the thing about it is that there are probably advantages for me living alone, being in a place that has a few more people and a few more of the kind of amenities that at least somewhat larger towns have, like a Costco and some some restaurants. We actually live in a homeowner's development, a homeowner's association called Spring Valley Lake, and I live within walking distance of the Country Club, which has a nice restaurant, so I'm able to go to the to the restaurant whenever I choose, and that's kind of nice. So there's value for me and being here and people say, Well, do you ever want to move from Victorville now that your wife died? And why do I want to do that? Especially since I have a 3.95% mortgage? You know, I'm not going to do that, and I'm in a new house that. Well, relatively new. It was built in 2016 so it's pretty much built to code. And insulation is great. Solar is great on the house. Air conditioning works, so I can't complain. Devin Miller  08:20 No, sounds like a good setup, and it's kind of one where, why, if you enjoy where you're at, why would you move to go somewhere else that you wouldn't necessarily enjoy? So it just sounds like it works out. Michael Hingson  08:29 Well, it does, and I can always, as I need to being a keynote speaker and traveling, there's a shuttle that'll take me down to the nearest airports. So that works out. Well, that's awesome. So you went to, I'm a little bit familiar with the the whole LDS missionary program, Mission program, we we were not part of the church, but we lived, when my wife and I got married, we lived in Mission Viejo and we had neighbors right next door to us, who were members of the church, and they came over one day and they said, we have an issue. And I said, Okay. And my wife said, Okay, what's the issue? Well, we have a couple of missionaries coming in, and the only homes that are available to these two boys are homes that already have young female girls in them. So they really can't be in those homes. Would you be willing to rent your one of your rooms to missionaries? And so we said, and well, Karen said, because she was a member of the Methodist church, we said, as long as they don't try to mormonize us, we won't try to methodize them. And we would love to do it. And it worked out really well. We had a couple of missionaries for a while, and then they switched out. And eventually we had a gentleman from Tonga for a while, and we actually had a couple girls for for a while. So it worked out really well, and we we got to know them all, and it was a great relationship. And they did their work, and at Christmas time, they certainly were invited to our Christmas parties. We. Had every year a party. What we actually had was what we call a Christmas tree upping. We got the tree, we brought it into the house, and we invited all of our friends and neighbors to come and decorate the tree in the house. Because, needless to say, we weren't going to do that very well. Karen especially wasn't going to be able to stand up and decorate the tree. So we got them to do all the tree decorations and all that, and we fed them. So it worked out. Devin Miller  10:26 Well, it's awesome. Sounds like, great. And you hit on. I said, that's probably my, my favorite part of the Christmas is a Christmas tree. So growing up, we always had a real live tree, but it was always, you know, it was downstairs in the basement, and had lower ceilings. And so I was always kind of the opinion, hey, when I grow up, I want to have the a huge, you know, kind of like in the newbies at 20 plus or 20 or 20 plus foot tree, yeah. And lo and behold, we, or at least the couple houses that we build have always had, at least in the living space, have had the pretty high ceilings. And so that's always what we do. We'll go out and we'll cut down a live tree. So we'll go out to kind of in nature, to the forest, where they let you cut them down, and we'll, we'll cut down, usually it's around a 20 plus foot tree, and then have it strung up in the house. And I always tell my wife, I said, I'd rather that one could be my Christmas present. I'd be just as happy, because as long as I have my tree, it's a good Christmas for me. Michael Hingson  11:23 Yeah, oh, I hear you. Well, one of the boys who lived next door to us went off on a mission to, I think it was Argentina, and was gone for, I guess, two years. What was really funny is when he came back, it took him a while to re acclimatize his speaking English and getting back his American accent. He was he definitely had much more of a Spanish accent, and was much more used to speaking Spanish for a while. So the the three month exposure period certainly got him started at the at the center there in Utah. And then he went off and did his missionary work and then came home. But, you know, it's, it's got to be a wonderful and a very valuable experience. How do you think it affected you? Devin Miller  12:10 Yeah, I think I said, I think it would be, you said it probably well, is it like one where to say, Hey, this is the most fun time in your life, and you'll never have a more fun time. I don't know that. It's kind of like, you know, I liken it to I so I like to do a lot of running, so or in older years. I don't know that I was as much in younger years, but kind of discovered not that I love running, per se, but love to get out and decompress and otherwise, kind of have a time where I don't have a lot of intrusions or other things that are pressing in on life. And so with that, you know, I've done a number of marathons and marathons, you know, everybody again, says, Well, did you have fun? Or was it a good or was it good marathon? So I don't know that it's ever fun. I don't and do it, but it's a good accomplishment. You it's, you go out, you set your mind to something, and then otherwise, at the end of the day, you reach your goal. And, you know, kind of has the that sense of accomplishment and learning and become improving yourself. That's probably a lot of how I like in a mission is, you know, you have a lot of stresses of learning a new language, being in a different culture, doing something that you're unfamiliar with or not accustomed to, and at the end, you know, you learn a lot of things, you are gain a lot of skills. You hopefully impact a lot of people's lives for the better. And so it is definitely one of those where it's a great accomplishment, but it's not, you know, it's not one way to say, hey, this was a fun vacation where I got to go play for two years. So it it works out well, and I would absolutely do it again. Michael Hingson  13:31 Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot, and you probably learned a whole lot more in a lot of ways, than most of the people that you you visited with because you treated it as an adventure and an adventure to learn. So that's pretty cool, absolutely. So you came back from that and you went back to college, and did you continue in electrical engineering? Or what Devin Miller  13:56 did you do? Yes and no. So I did continue in electrical engineering. Or so I came back and, you know, the intent was, and what I continue to do is to study electrical engineering. I did add on a second degree, which I was a Mandarin Chinese and so I can't remember, I mentioned I I served in Taiwan for those couple years and had an opportunity to kind of, you know, learn and study the language. So as I was doing that, I kind of came back and said, Well, if I've already put in the effort to learn the language and to study it, I might as well, you know, utilize it, or add it to the degree. And so I I really started, or I added that as a second degree to the first degree. So I came out with both the degree in Chinese or man or Chinese, as well as electrical engineering. So yes, continue to study that. And then from that, you know, kind of just as a part of that story. So I was coming out, kind of getting, you know, the senior year, kind of getting towards the end of that degree, and looked at and said, you know, what do I want to do when I grow up? And I still know if I know the full answer, but I did look at it and say, Hey, I, you know, I don't know exactly what I want to do when I grow up, but I don't, I like engineering. Engineering, but I don't want to be an engineer in the sense that, you know, not that I didn't like engineering, but it was one where a typical electrical engineers, you come out of graduate school, you go work for a big company. You're a very small cog and a very big Will you work for. You know, 1015, years, you gain enough experience to have any say your direction and what projects you work on or really have any impact. Not saying that's not really what I want to do when I grow up, or when I start into the working world. And so kind of with that, I, you know, I had a couple interests I enjoyed, you know, kind of the startup, small business, kind of that type of world. And I also found it interesting to on the legal aspect of intellectual property, so patents, trademarks, and really more. At the idea of, hey, you're going to work with a lot of cooling or cool inventions, cool people are working on a lot of unique things, and you get a lot more variety. And you get, you know, kind of be more impactful. And so that was kind of the the Crossroads I found myself at saying which, you know, kind of which direction I want to go. And, you know, kind of, rather than take one or the other, I kind of, I split the road and decided I was going to do both. So I went off to graduate school and did both an MBA or a master's in business administration as well as a law degree, kind of focused more on intellectual property. So went off and studied both of those kind of with the intent of, you know, I don't want to just be fit into one box or do just one thing, but I'd like to keep a foot in the business world, startup world, and have an opportunity to pursue my own business as well as doing the law degree. So I did that in a Case Western Reserve out in Cleveland, Ohio, studying both of those degrees Michael Hingson  16:34 when you were getting your degree in manner, in Chinese. Was that all about speaking the language, or was it also involved in history and civilization and understanding more about China? What was it like? Devin Miller  16:47 It was really more, certainly, there was a or, I guess, are you saying within college or within the mission itself? 16:54 In college? Okay, yeah. I mean, it was, Devin Miller  16:57 it was still primarily focused on the language. You know, the nice thing is, you can test out of a number of the, you know, entry level or their beginning classes, as long as you can show a proficiency. So there may have been some of that, and you still got, you know, some of the classes, would you still study a little bit of poetry, or, you know, within the language context, they've used poetry as a way to kind of learn different aspects of the language. You'd get a little bit of history, but pretty, or vast majority of focus was kind of both speaking as well as the the written and, you know, those are really as opposed to, like English speaking, where it's phonetics and you can or sound out and kind of understand what a you know, what something means by sounding it out, you don't have to know the word in order To, you know, to pronounce it. Chinese is not that way. So you have characters that are just every character you have to memorize. There is no phonetics. There's no way that you can look at a character and sound it out. And so there's a large amount of just memorizing, memorizing, you know, 20,000 characters to read a newspaper type of a thing. And then on the flip side is you have to learn the language, which is, you know, which are already focused on that, more on the mission, but you have to do pronunciation, so you can say the same word with different tones and it has entirely different meaning. So really, there was enough there on the language side, they tended to primarily focus on that, just because there was quite a bit there to Michael Hingson  18:19 dive into. It's a complicated language. Devin Miller  18:23 It it is certainly or uniquely different from English. I would say probably English to Chinese speakers is the hardest language because it's the most different from their language. And vice versa for English speaking Chinese is at least one of the this or harder languages because it is entirely different. So it is one that has a lot of intricacies that you get to learn. Michael Hingson  18:45 I took German in high school for three years, and then in college, I did a lot of shortwave listening and encountered radio Japan a bunch. So I actually took a year of Japanese, and I think from a written language, it's a lot more complicated than spoken language. I think it's a lot more straightforward than Chinese and a lot of ways easier to learn. But even so, it is different than than Latin languages by any standard. Devin Miller  19:16 But it is. It's an animal in and of itself, but it makes it fun. Michael Hingson  19:21 Yeah, that's right, it does make it fun. Incident. And then, as I said, it was an adventure. And all of that was, was an adventure. My master's is in physics. That was an adventure. And until you spend a lot of time dealing with physics and hopefully getting beyond just doing the math, you learn how much of a philosophical bent and how much about society and the way things work really is wrapped up in physics. So again, it's it's kind of fun, and unlike a lot of physicists or engineers. I've never thought that one is better or worse than the other. I think they both have purposes. And so as a physics person, I never pick on engineers. Devin Miller  20:11 I am, I wouldn't pick up. I wouldn't pick on any physics or physicists or physics majors, either, because that's equally, if not more difficult. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on and involved with all of them. But they're all of them are fun areas to Michael Hingson  20:26 study with. They are. So once you you got your master's degrees, and you you got your law degree, what did you go off and do? Devin Miller  20:36 Yeah, so I mean, I would probably back it up just a little bit. So kind of during that period where I was getting the degrees, couple things happened. Had a couple kids. So started out first kid while I was doing the, I guess the second year where I was in under or doing the law and MBA degree, doing it as a joint degree. And so had the had a kid. And then during that same period, the next year, about a year about a year and a half later, had another kid. And so that puts me as a it's a four year program, if you combine both of them together. And so I was in the kind of the third year, the four year program. And while I was doing those studies, you know, I had a I was doing a couple things. One is, I was doing the both, or studying both majors, raising the family. I was working about 20 hours as a law clerk or for a law firm, and then during that, I can't remember or if it was a flyer, or if it was, you know, an email or whatnot, but came across a business competition, or it's kind of a, it was kind of a, a multi disciplinary competition wherever, you know, people of different degrees and different fields of study would get together, you form a group of four or five, and you work on developing an idea, and then you would enter it into the competition and see how it goes. And so we did that the first year, and we did something, an idea to make Gym Bags less smelly, and then enter that in and took second place. And during that period, next year comes along, we're all in our final year of our degree. And as we're doing that, we are studying the degree and or entering the competition again. And we decided to do something different. It was for wearables. You know, this is before Apple Watch, or, you know, the Fitbit, or anything else. It was well before I knew that, but we just said, Hey, when I was there, thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool I'd ran my or, I think, my second marathon that time. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could monitor your hydration level so that you can make sure you're staying well hydrated throughout and it helps with the air, not being a sore and being, you know, quicker recovery and performing better. And so out of that, took the genesis of that idea, entered it back into the business comp, or that is a new idea, into the business competition, and did that with the partners, and took second place again, still a little bitter, or bitter that about that, because the people that took first place has entered the same thing that they entered the previous year, but polished, or took the money they've earned previously and polished it made it look a little nicer, and won again because it looked the most polished. But that aside, was a great, or great competition. Enjoyed it. And from that, you know, said, Hey, I think this is a good idea. I think it can be a, you know, something that you could actually build a business around. And so said, Hey, or kind of told the the people that were in the the group with me, you know, we're all graduating. We're going different directions. Would be pretty hard to do a startup altogether. So why don't we do this? Or why don't you guys take all the money that I got, you know that we you're in some reward money, or, you know, prize money. If you take my portion, split it amongst yourselves, and I'll just take ownership of the idea, whatever it is, where, you know, wherever I take it, and simply own it outright, you know, basically buying them out. And so that's what I did. So coming out of, you know, getting the MBA in the law degree, that was kind of always the intent. So, or coming out of school, I went and joined a law firm here in Utah. Was a full time patent attorney, and then alongside, you know, had the side hustle, what I'd really say is kind of a second full time job to where I was, you know, pursuing that startup or small business alongside of doing the law firm. So that was kind of the the genesis for, as I graduated full time attorney working, you know, with a lot of our cool clients and other things, and then also incorporating the desire to do a startup or small business. And that's kind of been, really, the trajectory that I've taken throughout my career is really, you know, finding ways to combine or to pursue both interests together. Michael Hingson  24:26 What happened to the business? Devin Miller  24:28 Yeah, so it so it's still alive today. I've been, I exited. Now it's been a couple year and a half, two years somewhere in there. Have to think back. So it started out. So with the business I started out, it was actually one where, rewinding just a little bit when we when I got started, my dad was also an electrical engineer. He'd actually, you know, he's well or farther into his career, and he done a number of different things across their medical devices through his career. And so he kind of, or he joined on as kind of doing it with us. Hustle with me, and we took that, started to build it. We brought on some additional team members. We brought on an investor, and actually built out and grew the business. It also evolved. So we were starting to test or test out the technology have it with some colleges and some other, you know, athletes, which was a natural place to start it at and about that time, and we were getting kind of to that next hurdle where we either needed to get a further investment or cash infusion, you know, to kind of take it to a more of a marketable, you know, a except a Polish full or ready to go to market type of product. And at that time, as we're exploring that we had or came or got connected with somebody that was more in the diabetes monitoring, they were doing it more from a service base. But you know, the overlay as to kind of how the technologies are overlapped with what they're doing tended to work out pretty well. And so we ended up combining the business to be one, where it was redirected a lot of the technology we developed underlining to be more of a wearables for the diabetes monitor. So that was a number of years ago. I stayed on doing a lot of, some of the engineering and development, primarily more in the intellectual property realm, of doing a lot of patents and whatnot. And then about a year and a half, two years ago, got bought out, was exited from that company and and that continues on today. It's still alive and growing, and I kind of watch it from, you know, from a distance, so to speak, or kind of continue to maintain interest, but don't are not necessarily active within the business anymore. So that was kind of a long answer to a shorter question, but that's kind of where the business eventually evolved to. Michael Hingson  26:36 So now I'm sure that the company is doing things like developing or working with products like continuous glucose monitors and so on. Devin Miller  26:46 Yep, yeah, that's kind of the direction as to what they're headed you Michael Hingson  26:49 well, and what's what's been interesting about several of the CGM type devices is that for people who are blind, there's been a real push to try to get some of them to be accessible. And what finally occurred about a year ago, maybe two years ago, is that one of the devices that's out there was approved to actually incorporate an app on a smartphone, and when the app came out, then it was really easy, although it took an effort to convince people to pay attention to it and do it, but it became technically a lot easier to deal with access, because all you had to do was to make the app accessible. And so there now is a continuous glucose monitor that that is accessible, whereas you wherein you get all the information from the app through voiceover, for example, on the iPhone or through talkback on a android phone that you get when you're just looking at the screen, which is the way it really should be anyway, because If you're going to do it, you should be inclusive and make it work for everyone. Devin Miller  28:06 No, that's cool. Yeah, there's a number of I think, between, you know, being a prevalent, you know, issue that people are dealing with, to, you know, different trying to address things earlier on, and also to motivate people do healthier lifestyle. And kind of the direction I think, is headed where a lot of the the company that's continues on today, from our original technology, is on the non invasive side. So a lot of them have, you have to have a patch, or you have to have periodically prick, or put an arm, you know, arm, right? Something where has a needle in the arm. And this one is kind of trying hair working to take it to that next level, to where it's no longer having to be invasive, and it's really all without having air with sensors that don't require you to have any sort of pain or prick in order to be able to utilize it. So kind of fun to fun to see how the industry continues to evolve. Michael Hingson  28:55 Well, today, we're working on that, and tomorrow, of course, the tricorder. So you know, we'll, we'll get to Star Trek 29:03 absolutely one step at a time. Michael Hingson  29:05 Yeah, but I've kind of figured that people were certainly working on non invasive technology so that you didn't have to have the sensor stuck in your arm. And I'm not surprised that that that's coming, and we'll be around before too long, just because we're learning so much about other ways of making the measurements that it makes sense to be able to do that. Devin Miller  29:31 Yep, no, absolutely. You know, it is a hard nut to crack. The body is very complex. A lot of things going on, and to measure it, not invasively, is certainly a lot that goes into it, but I think there's a lot of good, good technologies coming out. A lot of progress is being made, and certainly fun to continue to see how the health devices continue to hit the market. So certainly a cool area. Michael Hingson  29:53 So why did you decide, or maybe it was a natural progression, but why did you decide to go into patent law? Yeah. Devin Miller  30:01 I mean, I think it was probably a natural progression, and in the sense that, you know, it is one where overall desire was, Hey, I like engineering from the sense I like to think or how things work and kind of break things down and to have a better understanding. So really, intellectual property law and patents and trademarks and others allowed me to work with a lot of startups and small businesses, see a lot of cool things that they're developing still play a hand in it, and yet, also not, you know, be mired down to a long project over multiple years where you, you know, you're a small cog in a big wheel. And so, yeah, that was kind of one where it fit well within kind of the overall business, you know, business desire and business aspect of what I wanted to accomplish, and also just overall, you know, enjoying it or enjoying it. So that's kind of where it might, you know, it married well with the the desire to do startups and small businesses, as well as to work with a lot of other startups and small businesses. Michael Hingson  30:55 That's a lot of fun, to be able to deal with startups and see a lot of new and innovative kinds of things. And being in patent law, you probably see more than a lot of people, which does get to be exciting in an adventure, especially when you see something that looks like it has so much potential. Yep. Devin Miller  31:14 No, it is. It is fun. I get to see everything from I've worked on everything from boat anchors to credit card thing or devices that help elderly people to remove them more easily, from their wallet to AI to drones to software other or software platforms to medical devices. So it gives a ability to have a pretty good wide exposure to a lot of cool, different, you know, very different types of innovations, and that makes her just, you know, a fun, fun time, and be able to work or work with the air businesses as they develop. Are all those different technologies? Michael Hingson  31:50 Well, on the the law side of things, what's the difference between a provisional patent and a non provisional filing? Devin Miller  31:57 Yeah, so, so I don't back it up, and I'll get to your question. But maybe I'd set the stages to when you're looking at what is the difference between a patent and trademark and copyright, because a lot of times when people look at that, that's probably a good question too. Provisional trademark, or I want a, you know, or a non provisional copyright, or whatever it might be, and kind of get the terminology mixed up. So if you're to take it one step back, a provisional patent app or a patent is something that goes towards protecting an invention. So something that has the functionality that does something, that accomplishes something, a trademark is going to be something that is protecting of a brand. So name of a company, name of a product, a cash, phrase, a logo, and those type of things all really fall under trademarks and copyrights are going to be something that's more creative in nature. So a painting, a sculpture, a picture, a book, you know, all those type of things are going to fall under copyrights. And so really, when you're looking at it, you know, kind of breaking it down initially, you look at it as you know, which one is it. And so now to your question, Michael Hingson  32:58 well, before you go there, before you go ahead, before you go there. So if I'm writing software, does that fall under patent or copyright? I would assume if the software is to do something, it would be a patent. Devin Miller  33:12 So software primarily is under a patent. So there's, technically, you can copyright software. Now there's, it's pretty limited in its scope of protection. So if you're to do or software and do it under a copyright, really, all it protects is the exact way that you wrote the code. So you know, got it using this exact coding language. If somebody come along, copy and paste my code, you'll be protected. But it doesn't protect the functionality of how this code works or what it does. It is purely just how you wrote the code. So most of the time, when you're looking at software, it's really going to be more under a patent, because you're not going to want to just simply protect the identical way that you wrote the code, but rather what it does and what it does, yeah. So yep. So yeah, you for if you're to do as as your example, software, primarily, you're going to it's going to fall under patents. Michael Hingson  34:01 Okay, so anyway, back to provisional and non provisional. Devin Miller  34:05 Yeah, so, and when you're looking at doing a patent, you can do there's a couple different types of patents. One is a design patent. It really just goes to something the esthetic nature, the look and feel of a of an invention. So if you're thinking of the iPhone, you know, used to have the curved edges. I had the circle or a button at the bottom. It had, you know, the speaker placement and all those things. And it was just that outward appearance, not the functionality, could go under a design patent, but what the primary patent, which is what most people pursue, is what's called the utility patent application. And the utility patent application is really going towards the functionality of how something works. So the utility, how it works, what it does, and then kind of the purpose of it. And so with that, when you're looking at pursuing a utility patent application, there are a couple different types of patents that you can or types of utility patent patent applications. So. As you mentioned, one is called a provisional patent application. The other one is called a non provisional patent application. So a provisional patent application is kind of set up primarily, a lot of times for startups or small businesses where they're going to have a some product or an innovation that they're working on. They're in earlier stages. They're wanting to kind of protect what they have while they continue to develop it, and kind of flush it out. So provisional patent application is set up to be a one year placeholder application. So it will get, you know, you file it, you'll get patent pending, you'll get a date of invention, and it'll give you a year to decide if you want to pursue a full patent application or not. So you can file that gives you that one year time frame as a placeholder. The non provisional patent application would be the full patent application. So that would be what has, all the functionality, all the features, all the air, formalities and air, and it will go through the examination process. We'll go look at it for patentability. So those are kind of the difference provisional, one year, placeholder, less expensive, get your patent pending, versus the non provisional, that's the full patent application and gives you kind of that, or we'll go through examination. Michael Hingson  36:12 Do most people go through the provisional process just because it not only is less expensive, but at least it puts a hold and gives you a place. Devin Miller  36:22 It really just depends on where people are at. So kind of, you know, a lot of times people ask, Hey, well, what would you recommend? And I'll usually say, hey, there are typically two reasons why I would do a provisional patent application. And if you don't fall into either of those camps, then I would probably do a non provisional patent. Got it. So generally, the two reasons I get one is certainly budgetary. Give you an example. So our flat fee, you know, we do our primarily everything, flat fee in my firm, and a provisional patent application to prepare and file it, our flat fee is 2500 versus a non provisional patent application is 6950 so one is, Hey, your startup, small business, to have a limited funds, you're wanting to get a level of protection in place while you continue to pursue or develop things, then you would oftentimes do that as a provisional patent application. And the other reason, a lot of times where I would recommend it is, if you're saying, Hey, we've got a initial innovation, we think it's going to be great. We're still figuring things out, so we'd like to get something in place while we continue to do that research and develop it and kind of further figure it out. So that would be kind of, if you fall into one of those camps where it's either budgetary overlay, or it's one where you're wanting to get something in place and then take the next year to further develop it, then a provisional patent application is oftentimes a good route. There are also a lot of clients say, Hey, I'm, you know, we are pretty well. Did the Research Development getting ready to release it in the marketplace. While we don't have unlimited funds, we still have the ability to just simply go or go straight to a non provisional so we can get the examination process started, and then they'll go that route. So both of them are viable route. It's not kind of necessarily. One is inherently better or worse than the other is kind of more where you're at along the process and what, what kind of fits your needs the best. Michael Hingson  38:09 But at least there is a process that gives you options, and that's always good. Absolutely, patent laws, I well, I won't say it's straightforward, but given you know, in in our country today, we've got so many different kinds of things going on in the courts and all that, and sometimes one can only shake one's head at some of the decisions that are made regarding politics and all that, but that just seems to be a whole lot more complicated and a lot less straightforward than what you do With patent law? Is that really true? Or are there lots of curves that people bend things to go all sorts of different ways that make life difficult for you? Devin Miller  38:50 Um, probably a little bit of both. I think that it so. The law, legal system in general, is a much more slower moving enemy, so it does have a bit more of a kind of a basis to anticipate where things are headed in general. Now, the exception is, there always is an exception to the rule. Is that anytime the Supreme Court gets involved with patent law cases, I'd say 95% of the time, they make it worse rather than better. So, you know, you get judges that none of them are really have an experience or background in patent law. They've never done it. They really don't have too much familiarity with it, and now they're getting posed questions that are fairly involved in intricate and most of the time when they make decisions, they make it worse. It's less clear. You know, it's not as great of understanding, and it otherwise complicates things more. And so when you get the Supreme Court involved, then they can kind of make it more difficult or kind of shake things up. But by and large, it is a not that there isn't a lot of or involved in going through the process to convince the patent and examiner the patent office of patentability and make sure it's well drafted and has the it's good of coverage and scope, but at least there is, to a degree, that ability to anticipate. Hate, you know what it what's going to be required, or what you may likely to be looking at. You know? The other exception is, is, you know, the, ironically, I think the patent office is the only budget or producing or budget positive entity within all of the government. So every other part of the government spends much more money than they ever make. The Patent Office is, I think the, I think the postal office at one point was the other one, and they have, now are always in the in the red, and never make any money. But, you know, they are the patent office. Now, the problem with that is, you think, great, well now they can reinvest. They can approve, they should have the best technology, they should be the most up to date. They should have, you know, all the resources because they're self funding, and yet, there's always a piggy bank that the government goes to raid and redirects all those funds to other pet projects. And so, or the patent office is always, perpetually underfunded, as ironic as that is, because they're getting, always getting the piggy bank rated, and so with that, you know, they are, if you're to go into a lot of the patent office, their interfaces, their websites or databases, their systems, it feels like you're the onset of the or late 90s, early 2000s as far as everything goes. And so that always is not necessarily your question, but it's always a bit aggravating that you know you can't, as an example, can't submit color drawings. People ask, can you submit videos? Nope, you can't submit any videos of your invention, you know, can you provide, you know, other types of information? Nope, it's really just a written document, and it is line drawings that are black and white, and you can't submit anything beyond that. So there's one where I think eventually it will sometime, maybe shift or change, but it's going to be not anytime soon. I don't think there's any time on the horizon, because they're kind of stuck it once they move, moved over to the lit or initially onto the computer system, that's about where that evolution stopped. Michael Hingson  41:51 Well, the other thing though, with with videos, especially when you get AI involved and so on, are you really seeing a video of the invention. Or are you seeing something that somebody created that looks great, but the invention may not really do it. So I can understand their arguments, but there have to be ways to deal with that stuff. Devin Miller  42:13 Yeah, and I think that even be prior to AI, even we just had, you know, videos been around for 20 or 30 years, even, you know, digital format or longer. That probably, and the problem is, I think it's more of the search ability. So if you have a drawing, you can more easily search drawings and compare them side by side, and they'll do it. If you have a video, you know what? What format is the video? And is it a, you know, dot movie, or dot MOV, or is it.mp for is it color? Is it black and white? How do you capture it? Is it zoomed in as a kind of show all the details? Or is it zoomed out? And I think that there's enough difficulty in comparing video side by side and having a rigid enough or standardized format, the patent office said, man, we're not going to worry about it. Yes, so we could probably figure something out, but that's more work than anybody, any administration or any of the directors of the patent office ever want to tackle so it's just always kind of kicked down the road. Michael Hingson  43:06 Do they ever actually want to see the invention itself? Devin Miller  43:12 Not really, I mean, you so the short answer is no. I mean, they want to see the invention as it's captured within the the patent application. So the problem Michael Hingson  43:21 is, the drawing, they don't want to see the actual device, or whatever it is, well, and a lot Devin Miller  43:24 of times, you know as a inventors, they you know as a patent applicants, as the inventors and the owners, you're saying, hey, but I want to show them the invention. Problem is, the invention doesn't always mirror exactly what's showing in the patent application. Because you're on generation three of your product patent application is still in generation one, yeah, and so it doesn't mirror, and so the examiners are supposed to, they don't always, or aren't always good, and sometimes pull things and they shouldn't, but they're supposed to just consider whatever is conveyed in the patent application. Yeah, it's a closed world. And so bringing those additional things in now you can, so technically, you can request a live in office interview with the examiner, where you sit down live. You can bring in your invention or other or details and information, and when you do it live, face to face with an interview, you can walk them through it. Most very few people attorneys ever do that because one clients aren't going to want to pay for you to one of the offices, put you up in a hotel, you know, sit there, spend a day or two to or with the examiner to walk them through it. It just adds a significant amount of expense. Examiners don't particularly like it, because they have to dedicate significantly more time to doing that. Yeah, they're allotted, so they lose they basically are doing a lot of free work, and then you're pulling in a lot of information that they really can't consider. So you technically can. But I would say that you know, the likelihood of the majority of attorneys, 99 point whatever, percent don't do that, including myself. I've never been to do a live or live one, just because it just doesn't, it doesn't have enough advantage to make it worthwhile. Michael Hingson  44:58 Well, in talking about. About the law and all the things that go on with it. One of the things that comes to mind is, let's say you have somebody in the United States who's patenting, or has made a patent. What happens when it all goes to it gets so popular, or whatever, that now it becomes an international type of thing. You've got, I'm sure, all sorts of laws regarding intellectual property and patents and so on internationally. And how do you get protection internationally for a product? Devin Miller  45:32 File it in each country separately. So, you know, there are people, and I understand the inclinations, hey, I want to get a worldwide or global patent that covers everything in every country. The short answer is, you can't. I mean, technically, you could, if you file a patent into every country separately, nobody, including when I used to work or do work for companies including Intel and Amazon and Red Hat and Ford. They don't have patents in every single country throughout the world because they just don't have enough marketplace. You know, you go to a very small, let's say, South African country that you know, where they just don't sell their product enough in it, it just doesn't make the sense, or the courts or the systems or the patent office isn't well enough to find, or it's not enforceable enough that it just doesn't capture that value. And so there isn't a ability to have a global, worldwide patent, and it really is one where you have to file into each country separately. They each have their own somewhat similar criteria, still a different, somewhat similar process, but they each have their own criteria in their process that has to go through examination. So when you're looking at you know when you want to go for whether it's in the US or any other country, when you're deciding where you want to file it, it's really a matter of what marketplaces you're going to be selling the product into. So if you look at it and you know, I have as an example, some clients that 95% of their marketplace is all in the US, that's where they anticipate, that's probably where they're going to sell it. Well, yes, you could go and find, if you have 2% of your marketplace in Japan, you could go file a patent and get it into Japan, but you have such a small amount of your marketplace that's probably there that it doesn't make sense. And vice versa will have as an example. And a lot of times in the medical devices, they'll a lot of times file both in the EU as well as in the US, because those are two of the predominant medical device and are places where a lot of innovation is going on, where there's a lot of focus on utilization, development, medical devices, and there's just a lot of that demand. And so you're really going to look at it is which, where's your marketplace. The other times are the people, a lot of times, they'll get tripped up on so they'll say, Well, I probably need to file into China, right? And I said, Well, maybe because the inclination is, well, everybody just goes to China. They'll knock off the product. And so I want to have a patent in China so that I can, you know, fight against the knockoffs. And that isn't while I again, understand why they would ask that question. It wouldn't be the right way to convey it. Because if you if all it is is they you have no real, you know, no desire, no plan, to go into China. You're not going to sell it. You're not going to build a business there. If they're knocking it off and just just doing it in China, so to speak, then they're not. There isn't going to be a need to file a patent in China, because you don't have any marketplace in there. There's nothing really to protect. And if somebody makes it in China as a just picking on China, making as an example, and imports it into the US, you can still enforce your patent or otherwise do or utilize it to stop people from importing knock off because it's in the US, because they're, yeah, exactly, they're selling it, importing it, or otherwise doing activities in the US. So it's really a matter of where your marketplace is, not where you think that somebody might knock it off. Or, Hey, I'm gonna get a try and get a global patent, even though my marketplace is really in one or two spots. Michael Hingson  48:38 What about products like, say, the iPhone, which are commonly used all over. Devin Miller  48:44 Yeah, they're going to do, they'll do a lot of countries. They still Michael Hingson  48:47 won't do. They'll still do kind of country by country. Devin Miller  48:50 Yeah, they'll now, they'll do a lot of countries. Don't get me wrong, a lot of right. Phones are sold throughout the world, but they'll still look at it as to where it is, and they still have, you know, issues with them. So one of the interesting tidbits as an example, so going back and rewinding your time, taking apple as an example. You know, they came out with, originally, the iPod, then they had iPhone, and then they had the iPad. Now the question is, when they originally came out with their watch, what did they call it? 49:17 Apple Watch? Apple Watch. Now, why Devin Miller  49:20 didn't they call the I wash, which is what it made sense. It goes right along with the iPhone, the iPad, the iPhone, you know, the all of those iPod on that. And it was because somebody had already got a trademark in China that was for a different company, unrelated to the apple that had it for the iWatch. And so when Apple tried to go into the country, they tried to negotiate. They tried to bully. They weren't able to successfully get the rights or to be able to use I wash within China. China was a big enough market, and so they had and rather than try and split it and call it the I wash everywhere but China and trying to have the Apple Watch in China, they opted to call it the Apple Watch. Now I think they might. Of eventually resolve that, and I think it's now can be referred to as the I watch, I'm not sure, but for, at least for a long period of time, they couldn't. They called it the Apple Watch when they released it, for that reason. So even if you have, you know, a big company and one of the biggest ones in the world, you still have to play by the same rules. And why, you can try and leverage your your size and your wealth and that to get your way, there's still those, there's still those hindrances. So that's kind of maybe a side, a side note, but it's kind of one that's interesting. Michael Hingson  50:30 So that's the trademark of how you name it. But how about the technology itself? When the Apple Watch was created, I'm assuming that they were able to patent that. Devin Miller  50:39 Yeah, they will have, I'm sure they probably have anywhere from 30 to 100 to 200 I mean, they'll have a significant amount of patents, even it's just within the Apple Watch, everything from the screen, the display, how it's waterproof, how it does communications, how does the battery management, how does the touch, how does the interface, all of those are going to be different aspects that they continue to, you know, did it originally in the original Apple Watch, and are always iterating and changing as they continue to improve the technology. So generally, you know that, I'm sure that you will start out with as a business of protecting you're getting a foundational patent where you kind of protect the initial invention, but if it's successful and you're building it out, you're going to continue to file a number of patents to capture those ongoing innovations, and then you're going to file it into all of the countries where you have a reasonable market size that makes it worthwhile to make the investment. Michael Hingson  51:32 So if you have a new company and they've got a name and all that, what should new businesses do in terms of looking and performing a comprehensive search for of trademarks and so on to make sure they are doing the right thing. Devin Miller  51:49 Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, it wanted, if you're it depends on the size of company, your budget, there's always the overlay of, you know, you can want to do everything in the world, and if you don't have the budget, then you have to figure out what goes in your budget. But if I'll take it from kind of a startup or a small business perspective, you know, you first thing you should do is just as stupid and as easy as it sounds, you should go do a Google search. Or, now that you have chat GPT, go do a chat BT search and a Google search. But, you know, because it's interesting as it sounds, or, you know, is you think that, oh, that's, you know, kind of give me or an automatic I'll have still even till today, people come into my office. They'll say, Hey, I've got this great idea, this great invention, and a Lacher getting a patent on it, and they'll start to walk me through it. I'm like, you know, I could have sworn I've seen that before. I've seen something very similar. We'll sit down at my desk, take two minutes, do a Google search, and say, so is this a product that you're thinking of? Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Well, you can't really get a patent on something that's already been invented and out there, and so, you know, do a little bit of research yourself. Now there is a double edged sword, because you can do research and sometimes you'll have one or two things happen. You'll not having the experience and background, not entirely knowing what you're doing. You'll do research, and you'll either one say, Hey, I've done a whole bunch of research. I can't really find anything that's similar. When, in fact, there's a lot of similar things out there. There's a patent, and people will say, yeah, it's the same, it's the same invention, but my purpose is a little bit different. Well, you can't if it's the exact same or invention. Whether or not you say your purpose is different, doesn't get around their patent and same thing on a trademark. Yeah, their brand's pretty much 53:20 identical, but they're Devin Miller  53:21 doing legal services and I'm doing legal tools, and so it's different, and it's, again, it's one where there's there they have a false sense of security because they rationalize in their head why it's different, or vice versa. You also get people that will say, Hey, this is even though it's significantly different, it's the same purpose. And so while, while they really could go do the product, while they could get a patent or a trademark, because they think that it's just overall kind of the same concept, then they talk themselves out of it when they don't need to. So I would say, start out doing some of that initial research. I would do it if I was in their shoes, but temper it with, you know, do it as an initial review. If there's something that's identical or the same that's out there, then it gives you an idea. Probably, you know, you're not going to be able to add a minimum, get or patent their intellectual property protection, and you may infringe on someone else's but if you you know, if there's, there's some differences, or have to do that initial research, that's probably the time, if you're serious about, you know, investing or getting business up and going, you've probably engaged an attorney to do a more formal search, where they have the experience in the background and ability to better give a better understanding or determination as to whether or not something presents an issue. Michael Hingson  54:32 Yeah, well, that's understandable. If I've developed something and I have a patent for it, then I suddenly discovered that people are selling knockoffs or other similar devices on places like Amazon and so on. What do you do about that? Because I'm sure there must be a bunch of that that that does go on today. Devin Miller  54:53 Yeah, yes, it does. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as probably as prevalent as some people think. In other words, not every single. Product, right, being knocked off. Not everything is copied. Sometimes it's because, you know, either I don't have the ability, I don't have the investment, I don't have the, you know, it's not as big enough marketplace, I don't have the manufacturing, I don't have the connections, or it is simply, am respectful, and I'm not going to go do a discord because I'm not going to try and rip off, you know, what I think is someone else's idea. So it doesn't happen that as frequently as I think sometimes people think it does, but it certainly does occur. You know, there's a competitive marketplace, there's a profit incentive, and if there's a good product that's out there that people think they can do something with, and there's a motivation to do it, either because people are unaware that it's an issue, or that they they're unaware that they can't copy it or is protected. And so if you get into that, you know, there's a few potentially different recourses. One is, you know, a lot of times you'll start out with the cease and desist.

Psalm 40: 1-3First Methodist Church of Opelika is an exciting, historic, and growing Methodist church that is inviting our community to find and follow the Spirit-led life in Jesus. Founded in 1837, First Opelika has a rich history of influencing and impacting families in the Opelika/Auburn and surrounding community. The church is currently in a season of revitalization and is laying the foundation for effective ministry in the next season of her life as an independent Methodist church.For more information, check us out at www.firstopelika.org or www.facebook.com/firstopelika

Due to the winter storm on the weekend, we were unable to gather in person. So Brent hopped online to offer a prayer and share a few thoughts about the death of Alex Pretti, what to do with our anger, and more.

In this episode of the Evangelism Podcast, I talk with Reverend Dr. Ravi David, a Methodist pastor near Mumbai, India. Ravi shares how he was called to ministry at a young age, and the challenges of evangelism in India. We discuss the rich history of religious freedom in India, and how the teachings of Jesus and Gandhi's nonviolent approach have influenced one another. Ravi encourages Christians to simply practice what the Bible teaches as the best way to impact India.

Why do we really choose the churches we attend? In this episode of the McIntyre Inc. Podcast, Michael and Brianna McIntyre have an unfiltered conversation about Christianity, denominations, and the often-unspoken truth: many of us don't choose our church theologically—we choose it culturally. From Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Charismatic, and Episcopal traditions to underground churches in North Korea, persecuted believers in Nigeria, and the early house churches in Acts, this conversation explores how faith, power, comfort, and control have shaped modern Christianity. Go to themichaelmcintyre.com to find out what all we have going on!

Send us a textPastor Johnnie preaches a message on Isaiah 42.Support the show#sermons #motivation #inspirationhttps://www.instagram.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://x.com/pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.facebook.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://pastorjohnnie.blogspot.com/https://www.threads.com/@pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.tiktok.com/@pastorjohnnie

METHODISM Podcast Episode 3: IT'S ALL ABOUT OTHERSHave you ever wondered what Methodism is? Or maybe what makes up the core of what United Methodist Christians believe? Well, this is the Way — or at least this worship series will help us to understand more about the methods of Methodists. In this 3rd episode of the Methodism Podcast we'll hear Pastor Beth's sermon on how Methodism is All About Others.You can listen, watch, & subscribe to the Podcast on:+ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OGUMC/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠+ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0nGIcxSt5ToGbAcs0dmua2?si=3328d0411f194865+ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oak-grove-umc-podcast/id1695962000—Sunday Worship: 8:30 & 11am* Traditional Worship and 1045am* Modern Worship.*livestreamed at YouTube.com/ogumc#newyear #methodism #umc #ogumc

Psalm 107:1-9First Methodist Church of Opelika is an exciting, historic, and growing Methodist church that is inviting our community to find and follow the Spirit-led life in Jesus. Founded in 1837, First Opelika has a rich history of influencing and impacting families in the Opelika/Auburn and surrounding community. The church is currently in a season of revitalization and is laying the foundation for effective ministry in the next season of her life as an independent Methodist church.For more information, check us out at www.firstopelika.org or www.facebook.com/firstopelika

 The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. famously diagnosed the problem with pride as having a “drum major instinct,” adapting a phrase from the Methodist preacher J. Wallace Hamilton. Indeed, much of the hostility and tension in the world can be addressed if we dig our societal roots deeper into service and humility, just as Jesus taught his disciples in this text from Matthew. Reflection Questions:1. To what degree do you exhibit a “Drum Major Instinct?” 2. How can ambition be a healthy thing to have? When does it become unhealthy? 3. How can serving help you see the divine image in others? Find out more at HydeParkUMC.org/NextSteps

Featuring two long-time class members.

Mark Heap is one of the funniest actors on television - from Green Wing to Friday Night Dinner and his new series opposite Dawn French - Can You Keep a Secret.Born in India to the son of a Methodist minister Mark's early life featured eclectic and majestic music.Inherited: Were You There? by Tennessee Ernie FordPassing on: L'Ascension: IV Prière du Christ montant vers son père, composed by Olivier Messiaen, performed by Orchestre de l'Opéra National de Paris Producer: Ben Mitchell

This conversation explores the motivations and experiences of church planters John Teter and Peyton Jones as they discuss their journey to becoming part of the Free Methodist Church. The dialogue highlights the importance of community, mentorship, and the church's mission and values, emphasizing the relevance of the Free Methodist Church in today's cultural landscape. Larry and Deb Walkemeyer provide insights into their relationships with John and Peyton, affirming their contributions to the church and the significance of their work in ministry.

Send us a textPastor Johnnie preaches a message on Ephesians 1.Support the show#sermons #motivation #inspirationhttps://www.instagram.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://x.com/pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.facebook.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://pastorjohnnie.blogspot.com/https://www.threads.com/@pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.tiktok.com/@pastorjohnnie

Today on the Christian History Almanac, we head to the mailbag to answer a question about radicals and Methodists. Show Notes: Germany / Switzerland - Study Tour  Support 1517 Podcast Network 1517 Podcasts 1517 on Youtube 1517 Podcast Network on Apple Podcasts 1517 Events Schedule 1517 Academy - Free Theological Education What's New from 1517: Face to Face: A Novel of the Reformation by Amy Mantravadi Untamed Prayers: 365 Daily Devotions on Christ in the Book of Psalms by Chad Bird Remembering Your Baptism: A 40-Day Devotional by Kathryn Morales Sinner Saint by Luke Kjolhaug More from the hosts: Dan van Voorhis SHOW TRANSCRIPTS are available: https://www.1517.org/podcasts/the-christian-history-almanac CONTACT: CHA@1517.org SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts Spotify Stitcher Overcast Google Play FOLLOW US: Facebook Twitter Audio production by Christopher Gillespie (outerrimterritories.com).

Scripture: Psalm 145First Methodist Church of Opelika is an exciting, historic, and growing Methodist church that is inviting our community to find and follow the Spirit-led life in Jesus. Founded in 1837, First Opelika has a rich history of influencing and impacting families in the Opelika/Auburn and surrounding community. The church is currently in a season of revitalization and is laying the foundation for effective ministry in the next season of her life as an independent Methodist church.For more information, check us out at www.firstopelika.org or www.facebook.com/firstopelika

DateJanuary 11, 2026SynopsisIn this sermon, we dive into the disruptive power of Jesus's baptism, revealing how it offers a new imagination for how we see the world. Jesus steps into the water to redefine righteousness—it's not about maintaining purity or order, but about radical solidarity that shatters systems of control and exclusion. By claiming our first, revolutionary name as Beloved, we embody a vision in which justice flows like a river and are empowered to take a bold next step toward the healing of God's world.ReferencesScripture: Matthew 3:13–17About The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

Celebrated by many Western Christian denominations, including Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestant Churches such as Methodists and Moravians, The Feast of the Baptism of the Lord commemorates Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist in the Jordan River, marking the start of His public ministry and the first manifestation of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). It's a liturgical feast that concludes the Christmas season, typically observed on the first Sunday after Epiphany (January 6th) in Western Christianity, bridging to Ordinary Time, and it signifies the beginning of Christian life through baptism, uniting believers with Christ. Bishop Robert Barron books available at https://amzn.to/44W7nwN John the Baptist books available at https://amzn.to/3LCfQy1 Gospel of Mark available at https://amzn.to/3X3m9Ba Gospel of John available at https://amzn.to/3AozdbL ENJOY Ad-Free content, Bonus episodes, and Extra materials when joining our growing community on https://patreon.com/markvinet SUPPORT this channel by purchasing any product on Amazon using this FREE entry LINK https://amzn.to/3POlrUD (Amazon gives us credit at NO extra charge to you). Mark Vinet's TIMELINE video channel: https://youtube.com/c/TIMELINE_MarkVinet Mark's History of North America podcast: www.parthenonpodcast.com/history-of-north-america Website: https://markvinet.com/podcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.vinet.9 X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/HistoricalJesu Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denarynovels Mark's books: https://amzn.to/3k8qrGM Audio credits: Bishop Barron’s Sunday Sermons-Episode 06jan2021 The God Who Enters Our Muddy Waters (Word on Fire Catholic Ministries). Audio excerpts reproduced under the Fair Use (Fair Dealings) Legal Doctrine for purposes such as criticism, comment, teaching, education, scholarship, research and news reporting.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Send us a textPastor Johnnie preaches a message on Matthew chapter 2.Support the show#sermons #motivation #inspirationhttps://www.instagram.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://x.com/pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.facebook.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://pastorjohnnie.blogspot.com/https://www.threads.com/@pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.tiktok.com/@pastorjohnnie

This week's text: Psalm 33First Methodist Church of Opelika is an exciting, historic, and growing Methodist church that is inviting our community to find and follow the Spirit-led life in Jesus. Founded in 1837, First Opelika has a rich history of influencing and impacting families in the Opelika/Auburn and surrounding community. The church is currently in a season of revitalization and is laying the foundation for effective ministry in the next season of her life as an independent Methodist church.For more information, check us out at www.firstopelika.org or www.facebook.com/firstopelika

DateJanuary 4, 2026SynopsisIn this sermon, we explore the stark contrast between the desperate, grasping control of King Herod and the open-handed, joyful trust of the Magi on Epiphany Sunday. Tired of the anxiety that comes with trying to manufacture, manage, and secure every outcome in your life? The Epiphany story is an invitation to receive the gift of God already present. Release your white-knuckled grip, surrender your own agenda, and step into a new year with a posture of open hands and wonder, ready to receive the revelation God is offering.About The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

In this Week One Grounded conversation, Magrey and Matt reflect on what it really means to begin a new year with intention. From an unexpected video game metaphor to Wesleyan roots, they explore how personal spiritual rhythms, shared faith practices, and a commitment to social holiness shape a grounded life. Along the way, they touch on why Methodist distinctives still matter, how faith moves beyond the self, and what it looks like to step into the year ahead with clarity, purpose, and depth.Find out more at HydeParkUMC.org/NextSteps

Todd Henderson spent nearly 40 years as a Methodist pastor, but COVID revealed a hard truth: he had been making members, not disciples who could make disciples. Despite loving his congregation, he realized the prevailing church model was a "beautiful black hole" that would always consume attempts at pioneering disciple-making movements. At 60 years old, though they are scared and excited in equal measure, Todd and his wife are choosing to rediscover the life and work originally invited them into.

James, Jimmy, and Glenn are joined by Sarah and Jim to discuss the meaning of “faith alone” and the origin of the church's authority. Jimmy unpacks the difference between justifying faith and the lifelong process of sanctification, arguing that true faith inevitably produces good works but never earns God's favor. Sarah reads from the Catholic Catechism and Pope Benedict XVI to show how “faith alone” may be conflated with being wholly united to Christ, while still insisting that living faith is inseparable from love, obedience, baptism, and incorporation into the church, and she expresses concern with the concept of sola fide. Along the way, they compare Methodist “prevenient grace,” Calvinist “irresistible grace,” and Catholic sacramental language about “receiving” rather than taking the Eucharist, looking for common ground beneath the different vocabularies of Protestant and Catholic theology. The crew also gathers in studio for New Year's Eve, trading family stories, joking about Southern “bunkers,” and reflecting on how much of American resilience still lives in ordinary, well-armed households rather than distant institutions. Don't miss it!

In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

Today: the Methodist split that's still dragging out, Philip Rivers, a UPS layoff, hikes and a really cold swim. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This bonus episode of the Podcast is on the Covenant Prayer used by John Wesley, Methodism's founder. Retired Bishop Larry Goodpaster leads us in a conversation about this classic prayer which challenges us to surrender to God's will and continue to seek to live a faithful Christian life. John Wesley and the people called Methodists used this prayer both then and now as a way to help us to focus on the New Year ahead of us and on our relationship with God.A special thanks to Bishop Goodpaster and we hope that you'll join in for worship at Oak Grove in 2026 as we begin a new series called “Methodism: This is the Way,” which will focus on the core teachings of the Methodist faith. You can find a modern translation of the Wesley Covenant Prayer here: https://www.ngumc.org/covenant-prayerYou can listen, watch, & subscribe to the Podcast on:+ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@OGUMC/podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠+ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0nGIcxSt5ToGbAcs0dmua2?si=3328d0411f194865 + Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-oak-grove-umc-podcast/id1695962000 — Sunday Worship: 8:30 & 11am* Traditional Worship and 1045am* Modern Worship.*livestreamed at YouTube.com/ogumc #newyear #newyearseve #umc #ogumc #covenantprayer

Send us a textPastor Johnnie preaches a message from Matthew chapter 1.#sermons #motivation #inspirationhttps://www.instagram.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://x.com/pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.facebook.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://pastorjohnnie.blogspot.com/https://www.threads.com/@pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.tiktok.com/@pastorjohnnie

Susan Kimball Music Director and Rev Hazel Bates lead Christmas Music and Education and Scripture Reading Psalm 148:1-14 The post “Christmas Music Sing And Learn” appeared first on First United Methodist Church-Brighton & Whitmore Lake.

Send us a textPastor Johnnie preaches a message on James chapter 5.#sermons #motivation #inspirationhttps://www.instagram.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://x.com/pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.facebook.com/pastorjsimpjr/https://pastorjohnnie.blogspot.com/https://www.threads.com/@pastorjsimpjrhttps://www.tiktok.com/@pastorjohnnie

DateDecember 24, 2025SynopsisIn this special Christmas Eve homily, we wrestle with the chasm between the wide-eyed wonder of a child's Christmas and the sleepless anxiety of adult logistics and existential uncertainty. We discover that the Christmas story is not a distant, sanitized tale but a radical, relatable gift of divine presence. It reveals God drawing near—Emmanuel—to stand in solidarity with us amid the pressure, grief, and disorientation of our modern lives. Joy enfleshed is for you.Scripture: Luke 2:1–20About The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

Psalm 63First Methodist Church of Opelika is an exciting, historic, and growing Methodist church that is inviting our community to find and follow the Spirit-led life in Jesus. Founded in 1837, First Opelika has a rich history of influencing and impacting families in the Opelika/Auburn and surrounding community. The church is currently in a season of revitalization and is laying the foundation for effective ministry in the next season of her life as an independent Methodist church.For more information, check us out at www.firstopelika.org or www.facebook.com/firstopelika

DateDecember 21, 2025SynopsisIn this sermon, we dismantle the myth that joy is a prize to be earned or a mindset to be curated. Digging into the Christmas story—from the animals who bear witness to the cosmic claim of John's sarx—we discover that God has already pitched a tent in the fragile, biological stuff of creation. Joy isn't a reward for overcoming; it's an ever-present sign of God's presence, which holds us through everything and is simply waiting for our attention.ReferencesScripture: John 1:1–5, 14O Magnum MysteriumAbout The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

In this episode, John Mallia, Interim CFO, Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare, discusses the key financial challenges facing health systems today, including workforce costs, payer pressures, and reimbursement uncertainty, while sharing how his organization is investing in Epic, revenue cycle partnerships, and strategic leadership to drive stability and performance.

Patrick responds to callers grappling with transgender issues, offering resources and discussing a minister’s public transition. He confronts questions about compassion, truth, Catholic teaching, and everyday faith challenges including confession and reverence at Mass, weaving in practical advice and unscripted commentary. Sharp cultural critique collides with moments of empathy, and Catholic guidance is ever-present. David - What would Patrick recommend to help discern transgederism from a Catholic perspective? What academic resource can I use to support my arguments with a person who wants to change their sex? (01:18) Audio: United Methodist Church "pastor" announces during his sermon that he is now "transgender". “ I’m not becoming a woman, I’m giving up pretending to be a man” - https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1995877764076110042?s=46&t=m_l2itwnFvka2DG8_72nHQ (03:30) Audio: Piers Morgan - why can’t I identify as a black lesbian - https://x.com/paulembery/status/1992653633716928837?s=46&t=m_l2itwnFvka2DG8_72nHQ (12:51) Audio: CisAmerican liberal gets educated by transindigenous man of color - https://x.com/josh_seiter/status/1983192159227691221 (16:42) Rosemary - As a Catholic, I don't want to be far left or far right. I think we need more compassion to people like that Methodist pastor. (22:16) Jessica - Is it better for kids to go behind a screen or face to face? (26:49) Don - We should agree to take care of American citizens first and then illegals secondly and vet them. What would Christ do? (34:34) Jordan - I have 2 daughters. I am an American living overseas in Australia. When should I do the Baptism of both of my daughters? (41:48) Nick - I am a lector and want to know your opinion on bowing to the altar. Is this ok? I would rather give recognition to the tabernacle. (46:26) Originally aired on 12/03/25

TRADCAST EXPRESS - Episode 219 Topics covered: The Vatican fails to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the encyclical 'Quas Primas' of Pope Pius XI. The Social Kingship of Christ explained and contrasted with the Vatican II Church. Vatican celebrates 60 years of ecumenical dialogue with Methodists. What did Leo XIV just say? Vatican study commission says calls for women deacons not synodal enough. How Paul VI's celebrated encyclical Humanae Vitae is actually dangerous. Did Leo XIV pray at the Blue Mosque of Istanbul during his November trip to Turkey? Links: Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Quas Primas (Dec. 11, 1925) "How the Vatican Celebrates 100 Years Since Pope Pius XI's Encyclical Quas Primas on Christ the King", Novus Ordo Watch (Dec. 11, 2025) Vatican II, Declaration Dignitatis Humanae (Dec. 7, 1965) "Vatican publishes summary of 60 years of Catholic-Methodist dialogue", OSV News (Dec. 11, 2025) Leo XIV, Address to Promoters and Artists of the Vatican Christmas Concert, Vatican.va (Dec. 13, 2025) Tweet by CatholicSat on Vatican decision on women's ordination (Dec. 4, 2025) "Petrocchi Commission says no to female diaconate, though judgment not definitive", Vatican News (Dec. 4, 2025) John Galvin, "Humanae Vitae - Heroic, Deficient, Or Both?" (originally appeared in Winter 2002 issue of The Latin Mass Magazine, pp. 6-17) Video: Leo XIV visits Sultan Ahmed Mosque of Istanbul (Nov. 29, 2025) Video: Leo XIV answers reporter about visit to mosque (Dec. 10, 2025) Clare Marie Merkowsky, "Pope Leo says he didn't pray at mosque because he prefers to pray 'in a Catholic church' with Eucharist", Life Site (Dec. 11, 2025) Sign up to be notified of new episode releases automatically at tradcast.org. Produced by NOVUSORDOWATCH.org Support us by making a tax-deductible contribution at NovusOrdoWatch.org/donate/

Over the Christmas of 1716, during a time of political tension and uncertainty in England, strange events began to trouble Epworth Rectory. After nightfall, the home of Reverend Samuel Wesley was disturbed by unexplained sounds. Soft footsteps thumped in hallways, as dull thuds knocked on the  walls and door latches rattled in their housings. The Wesley family spoke cautiously of a presence they called Old Jeffrey, an unseen force that seemed intent on making itself known. Whether trick, imagination, or something darker, the disturbances unsettled the household for only a short time, but held a potential influence that would be felt centuries later, through the beliefs of the son, John Wesley, who would later go on to be a founding member of the Methodist church. SOURCES Southey, Robert (1904) The Life of John Wesley. Hutchinson & Co. London, UK. Tomkins, Stephen (2003) John Wesley: A Biography. Lion Books, Oxford, UK. Wesley, John (1784) The Haunting of Epworth Rectory: An Account of the Disturbances in my Father's House. The Arminian Magazine, No.7, 1784, London, UK. ------ For almost anything, head over to the podcasts hub at ⁠⁠⁠⁠darkhistories.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support the show by visiting our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Dark Histories books are available to buy here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://author.to/darkhistories⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dark Histories merch is available here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3GChjk9⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with us on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ Or find us on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://twitter.com/darkhistories⁠⁠⁠⁠ & Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Or you can contact us directly via email at ⁠⁠⁠⁠contact@darkhistories.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or join our Discord community: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017 Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

DateDecember 14, 2025SynopsisIn this sermon, we venture into the dark fields alongside the shepherds, discovering that the first announcement of the Incarnation was entrusted to those on the margins. We explore how the angelic proclamation disrupts our fear, revealing a joy that is not a scarce commodity for the pious, but a generous, cosmic invitation for all humanity. This is a story about a God who breaks through the silence to offer a love that is unapologetically inclusive and meant to be shared.Scripture: Luke 2:8–18About The Local ChurchFor more information about The Local Church, visit our website. Feedback? Questions? Comments? We'd love to hear it. Email Brent at brent@thelocalchurchpbo.org.To invest in what God's doing through The Local Church and help support these podcasting efforts and this movement of God's love, give online here.

In 1833, a writer named Catharine Williams began working on a new book. She'd published books of poetry and about the Revolutionary War before, but this book was going to be different. It was going to be about a Methodist minister, a mill worker, and a murder.  Kate Dawson's book is The Sinners All Bow: Two Authors, One Murder, and the Real Hester Prynne. Say hello on ⁠Facebook⁠, ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠. Sign up for our ⁠occasional newsletter⁠. Follow the show and review us on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠. Sign up for Criminal Plus to get behind-the-scenes bonus episodes of Criminal, ad-free listening of all of our shows, invitations to virtual events, special merch deals, and more. We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop. Episode transcripts are posted on our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patrick responds to callers grappling with transgender issues, offering resources and discussing a minister’s public transition. He confronts questions about compassion, truth, Catholic teaching, and everyday faith challenges including confession and reverence at Mass, weaving in practical advice and unscripted commentary. Sharp cultural critique collides with moments of empathy, and Catholic guidance is ever-present. David - What would Patrick recommend to help discern transgederism from a Catholic perspective? What academic resource can I use to support my arguments with a person who wants to change their sex? (01:18) Audio: United Methodist Church "pastor" announces during his sermon that he is now "transgender". “ I’m not becoming a woman, I’m giving up pretending to be a man” - https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1995877764076110042?s=46&t=m_l2itwnFvka2DG8_72nHQ (03:30) Audio: Piers Morgan - why can’t I identify as a black lesbian - https://x.com/paulembery/status/1992653633716928837?s=46&t=m_l2itwnFvka2DG8_72nHQ (12:51) Audio: CisAmerican liberal gets educated by transindigenous man of color - https://x.com/josh_seiter/status/1983192159227691221 (16:42) Rosemary - As a Catholic, I don't want to be far left or far right. I think we need more compassion to people like that Methodist pastor. (22:16) Jessica - Is it better for kids to go behind a screen or face to face? (26:49) Don - We should agree to take care of American citizens first and then illegals secondly and vet them. What would Christ do? (34:34) Jordan - I have 2 daughters. I am an American living overseas in Australia. When should I do the Baptism of both of my daughters? (41:48) Nick - I am a lector and want to know your opinion on bowing to the altar. Is this ok? I would rather give recognition to the tabernacle. (46:26)