Pioneers and Pathfinders

We're joined today by a true leader and team-builder in legal tech: Mark Smolik, Chief Legal Officer at DHL Supply Chain Americas. Mark has been at the forefront of innovation in the industry for decades, having previously served as Senior Corporate Counsel at the Sherwin-Williams Company, as well as General Counsel & Secretary, Head of Human Resources, and Ethics Officer at Safelite AutoGlass. Across these various roles, Mark has been relied on for executing legal, compliance, and business strategies that mitigate risk and drive value. In our discussion, Mark talks about the DHL Legal Innovation Summit in June, his approach to team-building and shaping culture, the important advice he received on delivering value, and his DHL team's approach to managing risk. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_MarkSmolik.pdf

We're back with part two of our conversation with Justin Ergler and Keith Maziarek, two sharp voices at the forefront of legal innovation and co-hosts of the Off the Clock podcast. In this second episode, we dig deeper into the forces driving legal transformation. We talk about what motivates real change in the industry, why managing change—not just demanding it—is key to moving the industry forward, and why culture is such a critical but often overlooked component of successful change management. Whether you're inside a law firm or on the client side, this is a candid, practical look at the challenges and opportunities of modern legal practice. Thanks for taking the time to listen in.  Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_KeithMaziarek_JustinErlger_Pt.2.pdf

This week, on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're doing something a little different, with a special two-part conversation featuring Justin Ergler and Keith Maziarek, co-hosts of the Off the Clock podcast and board members of the Legal Value Network. Now, you may remember Keith from a previous episode. He's the Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman. Justin, a veteran of GlaxoSmithKline, now leads his own consulting practice focused on alternative fee arrangements and innovative legal service delivery. In part one of our wide-ranging discussion, we talked about why this is a great time to enter the legal profession, the ongoing frustrations with the pace of change, and how law firms and legal departments are rethinking billing structures.  Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_KeithMaziarek_JustinErlger_Pt.1.pdf

Today, we revisit one of our most thought-provoking conversations, this time with Dr. Megan Ma. Since she joined us on the podcast, Dr. Ma has co-founded and become the Executive Director of the Stanford Legal Innovation through Frontier Technology Lab—otherwise known as liftlab. With a rich background in political science, economics, health law, and economic law, Dr. Ma brings a truly interdisciplinary lens to the future of legal education and technology. In our conversation, she shares her insights on how we train the next generation of lawyers, why mentorship and thoughtful design matter, and what it means to build a future-ready legal profession. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or just starting your career, this episode is full of wisdom and perspective on where the law is headed and how we will get there. Our guest this week is a leading thinker on the application of generative AI in the legal profession. Dr. Megan Ma is the associate director of Stanford's Law, Science, and Technology Program, as well as the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics—better known as CodeX. She also teaches courses in computational law and insurance tech. Dr. Ma has a background in a variety of fields: She majored in political science and economics, has master's degrees in health law and economic law, and earned her PhD in law. Additionally, Dr. Ma is an advisor to the PearX for AI program, and serves as editor-in-chief for the Cambridge Forum on AI, Law, and Governance, as the managing editor of the MIT Computational Law Report, and as a research affiliate at Singapore Management University in their Centre for Computational Law. We had a fascinating conversation about Dr. Ma's lifelong interest in linguistics, how "empathetic" large language models can be for users, how generative AI could change lawyer mentorship, and her thoughts on the future of technology in the profession. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Bestof_Dr.MeganMa.pdf

Today, on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're joined by Farrah Pepper, Chief Legal Innovation Counsel at Marsh McLennan—and a true force in the world of legal innovation. Farrah has built a career at the intersection of law, technology, and strategy, from founding Gibson Dunn's Global eDiscovery practice to leading GE's Discovery Center of Excellence to shaping the future of legal innovation at Marsh McLennan. She also plays a key role at Legal Data Intelligence, helping professionals unlock the power of legal data to solve real-world challenges. In our conversation, Farrah shares what drives her boundless energy, how to build community in the legal tech space, and why the design phase is critical to innovation. We also talked about the importance of leadership support and the lessons she's learned along the way. Farrah was thoughtful and inspiring, so don't miss an episode with one of the leading voices in legal transformation. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_FarrahPepper.pdf

Our guest this week is Christina Wojcik, Head of Innovation & Partnerships at Pierson Ferdinand LLP—and a true pioneer in legal tech and professional services. Christina's career started on the business side of law, where she built high-performing teams and supported major transactions and reviews. As technology began reshaping the legal landscape, she leaned in, becoming one of the early leaders in AI-powered document analysis and helping to find a new era of legal service delivery. Now, at Pierson Ferdinand, an incredibly new and fast-growing law firm, Christina leads strategy around innovation and partnerships, working to deliver smarter, more efficient solutions for clients. She is also the founder of the Tampa Legal Network, a group that brings in-house legal professionals together across roles—lawyers and allied professionals alike—with an emphasis on inclusion and collaboration. In our conversation, Christina reflects on what we learned from the shift from paper to electronic communications, how she stays ahead in a fast-moving tech environment, the exciting work she is doing at Pierson Ferdinand, and her advice for anyone looking to build a career in legal tech. It was a great conversation with one of the field's most forward-thinking voices. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_ChristinaWojcik.pdf

We're joined this week by Melissa Lauderdale, an executive director for a large company, and someone who is a true force in legal innovation. Melissa has spent her career transforming how legal teams operate, driving efficiency and building inclusive, high-performing teams in the fast-paced world of corporate law. From her work modernizing legal operations at Exelon to securing industry-first regulatory approvals at Constellation, she has been at the forefront of reshaping compliance and legal processes through technology and smart strategy. Melissa continues to lead change, designing risk mitigation strategies, automating compliance systems, and helping her organizations stay both agile and accountable. She has also earned honors for her work in DEI, like the 2023 DEI Champion Award and 2020 ACC Value Champions. Additionally, she frequently shares her insights in legal ops leadership with top-industry forums. In today's episode, Melissa shares her journey into the legal world, how she inspires legal teams to embrace technology, her approach to building inclusive workplaces, and the principles that have guided her leadership along the way. It was a conversation full of practical insights and inspirations. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_MelissaLauderdale.pdf

As lawyers ascend to leadership roles within their firms and organizations, they often face difficult challenges such as the need for guidance and coping with feelings of isolation. Our guest this week, Rudhir Krishtel, is dedicated to supporting legal professionals in navigating these issues. As an advisor, Rudhir provides spaces for lawyers, law firms, legal departments, and companies to have meaningful dialogue and growth around well-being, collective engagement, leadership, and business. He and his team use mindfulness-based practices to work with teams and individuals on identifying their particular challenges and finding solutions. Rudhir practiced law for 15 years, being a law firm partner with a patent litigation practice, and then worked as in-house counsel of IP transactions at Apple. He ultimately transitioned to advisory work, drawing on his prior professional experience and business principles he learned, in order to assist clients with overcoming their obstacles. In our wide-ranging conversation, Rudhir discusses his mindfulness-based approach to advising clients, how organizations can initiate cultural innovation, the aspects of practice that are often missed in lawyer training, and his advice for lawyer well-being in day-to-day work. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_RudhirKrishtel.pdf

Timekeeping and billing have long been pain points for lawyers, but today's guest, Adrian Parlow, is working to change that. As the co-founder and CEO of PointOne, he's leveraging AI to automate time tracking and bill review, helping law firms capture more revenue while reducing administrative burdens. Adrian's path to legal tech began in startup law. After beginning his career at Fenwick & West, he transitioned to the business side as general counsel at Wefunder, an online crowdfunding platform for startups. That experience sparked his interest in innovation and led him to launch PointOne, where he and his team are helping firms rethink their approach to timekeeping and billing in the AI era. Adrian joins us to talk about tackling the challenge of timekeeping, his journey from lawyer to entrepreneur, how PointOne is transforming billing practices, and why legal organizations are re-evaluating their stance on AI and innovation. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Adrian_Parlow.pdf

In this special edition of Pioneers and Pathfinders, we celebrate the fourth anniversary of the podcast. As we look back, one thing stands out: Our guests come from a wonderfully diverse set of professional backgrounds, but they all share a common thread—a belief that the legal profession can and must evolve to meet the challenges and opportunities of our time. The conversations we've had on this podcast reflect both the challenges and incredible opportunities ahead. Listen in for insights from: Former Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack • Former Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack • Andrew Perlman • Marla Crawford • Heidi Alexander • Kris Niedringhaus • Denise Robinson • Leah Molatseli • Kimberly Fine • Nicole Morris • Ned Gannon • Sanjay Kamlani • Ilona Logvinova • Steve Harmon • Zack DeMeola • Damien Riehl • Jordan Furlong • Jennifer Leonard • Dr. Megan Ma • Richard Susskind We'd like to thank all of you who listen to the podcast. Your engagement, feedback, and curiosity are what make this community so special. We also thank our incredible guests from over the years, who have been so generous in sharing their time, their stories, and their bold ideas. We'll be back next week with more insights from the trailblazers shaping the future of law. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_FourthAnniversary.pdf

This week, we're diving into the world of access to justice with Kristen Sonday, a true trailblazer in making pro bono legal work more efficient and effective. Kristen is the co-founder and CEO of Paladin, an organization dedicated to increasing pro bono engagement while reducing administrative burdens. Through partnerships with law firms, corporate legal teams, bar associations, the US government, and over 300 legal service organizations, Paladin is helping to bridge the justice gap by streamlining how legal professionals connect with those in need. Before launching Paladin, Kristen worked on international criminal matters for the US Department of Justice in Mexico and Central America, and was part of the founding team of a New York City-based tech startup. She also shares her insights in her Thomson Reuters Institute column NextGen Justice Tech, where she explores the role of technology in expanding access to justice. Beyond her work in legal tech, Kristen is a founding partner of LongJump, a Chicago-based venture capital fund focused on supporting the next generation of founders. In our conversation, Kristen takes us through how Paladin is creating a blueprint for justice technology, her journey into access to justice work, the mission of LongJump, and the key lessons she has learned from her entrepreneurial journey. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Kristen_Sonday.pdf

Today, we host a fantastic guest, Barbara Rogers, Vice President of Legal Operations, Strategy & Transformation at Honeywell, a Fortune 500 powerhouse known for developing cutting-edge technologies that tackle global challenges in safety, security, and energy. Barbara is at the heart of driving transformation within the company's legal operations. With a career spanning HR, procurement, and legal, she has led large-scale global transformation initiatives. She started out as an attorney focused on commercial and consumer plaintiff work, before moving into strategic business roles, including a time at Motorola as Senior Strategic Business Alliance Manager. Now, at Honeywell, she's building a forward-thinking legal operations function—one that's guided by strategy, innovation, and a clear roadmap for the future. In fact, her team's work was recognized last year with the Financial Times North America Innovative Lawyers Award for Innovation in Operational Transformation. In our conversation, Barbara shares her insights on legal operations and strategy at Honeywell, how she's cultivating a creative and innovative team, the common thread that ties together her diverse career, and how to navigate the fear and opportunities surrounding generative AI. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_Barbara_Rogers.pdf

Our guest this week, Hal Brooks, is the CEO at HaystackID Group Holdings, a specialized eDiscovery services firm helping corporations and law firms find, understand, and learn from data when facing complex, data-intensive investigations and litigation. Hal is an eDiscovery and litigation technology professional with more than 25 years of experience. He has participated in the acquisition and growth of several industry-leading companies, and has helped businesses address challenges in the areas of litigation strategy, automated discovery processes, and cybersecurity. This year, Hal was given the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Legalweek Leaders in Tech Law Awards. Today, Hal speaks with us about the advice he received at the beginning of his career, the evolution of the eDiscovery industry, Haystack's commitment to being a voice of reason, and the need for continuous education as technology evolves. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_Hal_Brooks.pdf

We're joined today by Ned Gannon, co-founder and CEO of Coheso, an AI-powered work management platform for in-house legal and compliance teams. At the start of his career, Ned was a corporate attorney, primarily focusing on mergers and acquisitions on behalf of private equity funds. Fascinated by entrepreneurship, he ultimately took the leap into business himself. One of his ventures was co-founding eBrevia, an AI-based contract analysis software. Today, at Coheso, he and his team help legal and compliance teams run faster and more streamlined operations, while improving productivity throughout an organization. Additionally, Ned speaks frequently on topics related to artificial intelligence and the legal industry. Ned spoke with us about how earning a master's degree in public administration prepared him for business, what it means for Coheso to be a "legal front door," balancing automation with human involvement, and managing the challenges of growing a business.

Today, we're joined by Heidi Alexander, the executive director of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being, which plans and oversees efforts to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges, and law students in the Commonwealth. As executive director, Heidi helps lawyers achieve a healthy, positive, and productive balance of work, personal life, and health. Heidi has a wide-ranging background in law and well-being work. She has been deputy director of a nonprofit lawyer assistance program that provides mental health support, addiction support, and practice management services. Heidi has also owned a solo law practice, practiced employment law and litigation, clerked for a justice on the New Jersey Supreme Court, and worked for a nonprofit women's business assistance center. Additionally, she is an avid speaker on topics such as attorney well-being, time management, productivity, and legal technology, and she has authored numerous articles and a book published by the American Bar Association's Law Practice Management Division, Evernote as a Law Practice Tool. In our wide-ranging conversation, Heidi talks with us about the mission and work of the committee, the various challenges to the well-being of lawyers, how her personal experience inspired her to focus on public service, and using technology to help with well-being.

This week's guest, Marla Crawford, is a respected attorney, strategic advisor, and thought leader with over 35 years of experience in the legal industry. She currently serves as general counsel at Cimplifi, an integrated legal services provider that leverages technology to simplify the experience of eDiscovery and contract analytics for law firms and legal departments. For 22 years, Marla practiced law at the international firm Jones Day, focusing on the discovery phase of litigation. She also served as associate general counsel for Goldman Sachs for 11 years, where she led the firm's global eDiscovery practice and focused on complex commercial and securities litigation and regulatory investigations. Additionally, Marla was part of the inaugural class of the Education Advisory Council of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). Today, she advises on issues relating to information governance as well as the deployment of new technologies. Marla also speaks regularly on legal tech, eDiscovery, and information governance issues. In our conversation, Marla discusses how her father inspired her to become a lawyer, her involvement at the early stages of eDiscovery, why transparency is so important in adopting legal tech, and how generative AI has stimulated demand for other legal tech adoption.

Today we're joined by Emily Lippincott, Senior Legal Futurist at Filevine, a legal work platform for law firms and businesses across the United States and Canada. Emily is an attorney with over 16 years of experience in Silicon Valley, both in-house and at law firms, counseling corporate clients from incorporation to public offering or acquisition. Throughout her career, she has focused on law, knowledge management, and technology, and has gained a unique perspective on the future of legal tech. At Filevine, Emily designs solutions to bring the platform and its suite of products to clients in a variety of legal disciplines. In our discussion, Emily speaks with us about why law appealed to her, what she has learned about change management, the types of projects that she and her team pursue, and how she became a legal futurist.

This week, we're revisiting a wonderful discussion with Professor Richard Susskind. In the time since he joined us on the podcast, Richard has been promoted to CBE—Commander of the Order of the British Empire in the King's New Year Honours List 2025 for his “services to Information Technology and to the Law.” Richard has also written a new book, How To Think About AI: A Guide For The Perplexed, in which he addresses the most challenging issues of AI technology that are currently being debated—the business, risk, legal, ethical, management, and philosophical implications. The book will be available in March for those in the UK, and in April for those in the US. We have provided a link with additional information in the show notes. Congratulations to Richard on these recent accomplishments. And thank you to everyone for listening. We hope you enjoy! Today, we welcome a very special guest—Professor Richard Susskind. For those who have been engaged in the discussions around legal tech for the past few decades, Richard needs no introduction. He is one of the most advanced thinkers on the impact of technology on the profession, and has been challenging our notions about what it will mean to be a lawyer for a long time. Richard is an adviser, speaker, and author who was focused on legal tech and the future of the profession long before these subjects were top of mind in the industry. In the 1980s, he wrote his doctorate at Oxford University on artificial intelligence, and today, his main area of expertise continues to be the impact of AI and other technologies on the legal profession. Among other roles, Richard is President of the Society for Computers and Law, and Technology Adviser to the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales. He is also an adviser to leading professional firms, in-house legal departments, and governments and judiciaries around the world. He is a frequent speaker at conferences, seminars, retreats, and other events, having been invited to lecture in more than 60 countries. Richard has written 10 books and has contributed more than 150 articles to The Times of London. His most recent publication is the third edition of Tomorrow's Lawyers, which guides legal professionals through the imminent future of law, and calls upon the next generation of lawyers to embrace technology in order to improve current legal and court services. In our conversation, Richard discusses the ways we should all be thinking about legal innovation, the challenges of training lawyers for the future, and the qualifications of those likely to develop breakthrough technologies in law, as well as his own journey and how he became interested in AI as an undergraduate student.

This week, we're talking to Will Norton, the founder and CEO of SimplyAgree, a platform that automates the administrative tasks of a closing—from signature packets to closing binders—so attorneys can focus on getting deals done for their clients. Will's legal journey began in undergrad, where he double-majored in math and computer science while taking philosophy and history courses. After realizing he wanted to work at the intersection of computer science and law, he went on to law school and became an M&A attorney at Baker Donelson. There, he was part of a business technology subgroup, advising startups and emerging, high-tech companies. Understanding the pain points of transactional attorneys, he later developed SimplyAgree as a way to streamline the signing and closing process for complex transactions. In our conversation, Will discusses his experience at the 2024 LegalTech Fund Summit, how he founded SimplyAgree, the impact of generative AI on the legal tech space, and what he considers “the job of the startup founder.”

Today we welcome Eric Voogt, the founder and CEO of PROOF, a legal tech company that connects law firms with independent process servers nationwide. Eric started as an engineer for an aircraft manufacturer, but left this profession to attend law school and pursue a career in law. In addition to his work at PROOF, he has been a partner at a Denver law firm for more than two decades. Eric is skilled in technology development, as well as construction law, trials, appeals, commercial litigation, and environmental law. Last year, PROOF was named “Best Practice of Law App” by Clio at the annual Clio Cloud Conference. Today, Eric tells us about his recommendation for young people planning to go to law school, why and how he created PROOF, the role of technology in addressing the A2J problem, and the legal technology developments that excite him.

Happy New Year! And welcome back to another year of Pioneers and Pathfinders! This week, we're joined by Denise Robinson, founding principal and Belonging & Well-Being Consultant at The Still Center, a consultancy that facilitates personal well-being, interpersonal connection, and organizational inclusion through mindfulness-based diversity and inclusion methods. Denise started her career as an employment litigator, focusing on discrimination claims and other employment disputes. She later changed career paths and became a global diversity and inclusion professional—serving as a law school and college admissions officer for Georgetown University, director of diversity and inclusion at O'Melveny & Myers LLP, and diversity officer at the International Monetary Fund. In her current role at The Still Center, Denise teaches contemplative practice techniques to lawyers and other professionals to promote self-awareness and authenticity, interrupt bias, and advance cultural humility. In our conversation, Denise speaks with us about how studying philosophy led her toward a legal career, what she learned as an L&E lawyer, the connection between DEI and well-being, and the challenges of managing global diversity initiatives.

In our last episode before the new year, we're talking with Ralph Baxter, a true pioneer in the legal industry. Ralph is a strategic advisor to law firms, legal tech companies, and corporate law departments, but he is probably best known for his leadership at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. As chair and CEO of Orrick for more than two decades, he launched several groundbreaking initiatives that modernized the way the firm operated and served its clients. Today, he is a member of the board of directors at Intapp, and a member of the legal advisory board at LegalZoom. Ralph's work has extended across the legal ecosystem: legal education, law firms, law departments, legal tech companies, and public interest projects and regulatory reform. He also devotes time to thought leadership, writing a blog, and speaking at seminars and events. In our wide-ranging discussion, Ralph talks to us about his initiatives at Orrick, the key to change management, how generative AI will change legal pricing models and legal work, and the advice he shares with people considering a legal career. As 2024 comes to an end, we will be taking the next two weeks off. Thank you for listening in on all the wonderful discussions we've had this year. Thank you to our guests as well. We will return with new episodes on January 8th. Happy Holidays!

We're pleased to welcome back Ed Walters, a thought leader in legal tech and innovation. Since Ed last spoke with us, he has become the chief strategy officer at vLex, which merged with Ed's previous company, Fastcase. vLex is a platform using AI solutions to streamline workflows and provide lawyers with greater access to knowledge and resources. About a year ago, the company launched Vincent AI, a legal intelligence platform that references real cases and materials from vLex's law library of over one billion legal documents. The tool is used by law firms, legal departments, and law schools around the world. In addition to his role at vLex, Ed continues to teach as an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center and at Cornell Law School. He also writes on various topics about innovation in the legal industry. Today, Ed talks about how Fastcase merged with vLex, the response to Vincent AI, and how he hopes generative AI will enhance access to justice and improve lawyer training.

Today's guest, Taylor Sartor, is the creator and legal director of FosterPower, a movement to improve the lives and futures of youth in foster care in Florida, by providing them information on their benefits, protections, and legal rights. Taylor is also a senior attorney at the L. David Shear Children's Law Center, where she represents youth in foster care. Taylor focuses on issues related to human trafficking, disabilities, commitment in psychiatric facilities, aging out of foster care, and school-to-prison pipeline prevention, among many others. She came up with the idea for FosterPower while she was still in law school working with youth in foster care who had many questions about their rights and the resources available to them. The organization offers answers to these questions through a mobile app. An alum of Stetson University College of Law, Taylor is also the founder of Child Advocates of Stetson Law, an organization that recruits law students to become guardian ad litem volunteers, mentors, and leaders to advocate on behalf of children facing abuse and neglect. Additionally, she served as an Equal Justice Works Fellow at the Children's Law Center from 2018 to 2020. In our wide-ranging discussion, Taylor talks with us about the range of issues youth in foster care must contend with, how FosterPower earns trust from its users, where her passion for youth in foster care comes from, and her experience as an Equal Justice Works fellow.

This week, we welcome Nelson Quintero, the co-founder and chief operating officer of ECFX, a company that fills in the gaps in legal workflows with automated solutions. Nelson is an attorney with over 20 years of experience in the field of intellectual property, focusing on patent and trademark prosecution for both US and foreign clients. ECFX's main solution is an automated process for managing the flow of electronic court filings. He thought of the idea for ECFX with his friend Dan O'Day, a lawyer and programmer. Nelson and Dan developed the software as a way to extract documents and gather information from a large volume of emails associated with electronic course filings, hoping to boost efficiency and cost savings. Since its launch, ECFX has helped numerous law firms of all sizes meet their automation needs. In our conversation, Nelson spoke about his experience launching ECFX during the pandemic, why IP law had suited his personality, dealing with change management, and his advice for lawyers pursuing entrepreneurship.

This week, we are replaying the latest installment in our virtual roundtable series, titled “Understanding the Legal and Commercial Challenges of Disinformation and Deepfakes.” For those who may not be familiar, a deepfake is a type of synthetic media where images, videos, or audio may seem real, but have been manipulated or generated with artificial intelligence. While some synthetic or manipulated media have legitimate applications, the ability of deepfakes to exploit and spread disinformation poses various commercial and legal threats, which organizations must be prepared to address. Our panel included Catherine Porter, Chief Business Officer of Prove; Hon. Paul W. Grimm (Ret.), professor of the practice of law and director of the Bolch Judicial Institute at Duke Law School; and Puya Partow-Navid, partner at Seyfarth. We discussed a variety of topics, including the biggest risks of deepfakes that organizations must tackle for consumers, the impact of deepfakes on courtroom and evidentiary rules, the legal frameworks in place to protect against deepfakes and disinformation, and technological solutions and best practices for businesses.

Today's episode of Pioneers and Pathfinders takes a slightly different approach. We are joined by Tony Thai, a returning guest, who is the CEO and Chief Engineer of HyperDraft, a contract automation software platform for various enterprises. We're also joined by Byong Kim, Senior Director of Technology Innovations at Seyfarth. He runs Seyfarth Labs, which is a tech R&D team that leads the way in applying emerging technologies to the legal profession. Earlier this year, the three of us led a highly curated roundtable at Seyfarth's New York office for in-house counsel, innovation leaders, and Seyfarth partners, where we had an open conversation on best practices for the implementation of AI and automation. This was a confidential conversation, so we didn't record it. Today, we won't be talking about specific people or comments made at the roundtable, but we thought we'd go over what we had learned from it and how we see the progression of AI and automation in the industry, as well as best practices. We discussed how generative AI is often treated like a "solution in search of a problem," how organizations are approaching implementation of the technology, potential security and confidentiality concerns with using generative AI, and advice for legal professionals starting to use this new technology.

Our guest this week is a leading thinker on the application of generative AI in the legal profession. Dr. Megan Ma is the associate director of Stanford's Law, Science, and Technology Program, as well as the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics—better known as CodeX. She also teaches courses in computational law and insurance tech. Dr. Ma has a background in a variety of fields: She majored in political science and economics, has master's degrees in health law and economic law, and earned her PhD in law. Additionally, Dr. Ma is an advisor to the PearX for AI program, and serves as editor-in-chief for the Cambridge Forum on AI, Law, and Governance, as the managing editor of the MIT Computational Law Report, and as a research affiliate at Singapore Management University in their Centre for Computational Law. We had a fascinating conversation about Dr. Ma's lifelong interest in linguistics, how "empathetic" large language models can be for users, how generative AI could change lawyer mentorship, and her thoughts on the future of technology in the profession.

This week, we're joined by Nicole Clark, founder and CEO of Trellis, a state trial court research and analytics platform. For several years, Nicole was an attorney in private practice, handling business litigation and labor and employment matters. The idea for Trellis came from her experience doing research for complicated summary judgement motions. Nicole worked with software developers on an early version of the tool, collecting state trial court data and creating an extensive database of tentative rulings issued by judges in Southern California. As Nicole's practice flourished from using the database, she decided to turn it into a scalable legal analytics platform that would help democratize access for state trial court data. Outside of her work at Trellis, Nicole shares everything she has learned over the years about legal analytics with other legal professionals by authoring articles for ABA Journal, New York Law Journal, Texas Lawyer, and Santa Barbara Lawyer. She is also regularly featured as a legal expert in Southern California Record, and has appeared as a guest on podcasts produced by Above the Law and Corporate Counsel Business Journal. In our discussion, Nicole spoke about her transition from practicing law to developing Trellis, her experience starting college at 16, how lawyer engagement with tech has changed in recent years, and her advice for those considering making a leap to business.

Today's guest is Ted Theodoropoulos, CEO of Infodash, a cloud-first legal intranet and extranet platform. Ted has over two decades of experience in the legal tech industry, having led the development and delivery of innovative solutions for law firms. Over the course of his career, he has worked as a database engineer at Microsoft, senior vice president of Bank of America, and president of Acrowire—a technology consulting firm. At Infodash, he and his team help law firms leverage their Microsoft 365 investment in order to stay connected with their employees, their clients, and their work in the new age of remote and hybrid work. This year, Ted was named ILTA's 2024 Innovative Leader of the Year. In our conversation, Ted discusses his experience at ILTACON 2024, what new legal professionals should understand early in their careers, how he has been using generative AI in his personal and professional life, and his vision for the future of Infodash.

Today's guest, Lourdes Fuentes, is the founder and CEO of Karta Legal, a legal operations and law firm management consulting firm dedicated to transforming law firms and legal departments through efficiency. Lourdes has over 30 years of experience in the legal field, focusing on insurance litigation, legal technology, and legal operations, among many other areas. As a practicing lawyer, she took an interest in eDiscovery and document digitization at a time when these processes were still very new. Having gained years of experience and knowledge, she shifted her focus toward improving the delivery of legal services for law firms and legal departments. In her work, Lourdes utilizes curated design thinking, Lean Six Sigma, and Agile project management tools and techniques tailored to the management of the business of law and legal processes. In our wide-ranging discussion, she talks about the origins of Karta Legal, the challenges of encouraging lawyers to embrace technology, how her thoughts on generative AI have changed over time, and her advice for those starting a legal tech business.

This week, we're speaking with Dr. Kirsten Davis of Stetson University College of Law. Dr. Davis began her legal career practicing in the areas of litigation, employment, and taxation. After a few years, she decided to pursue education, becoming a professor at the Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law at Arizona State University, where she focused on legal writing. It was during this time that Dr. Davis started her PhD in Human Communication. Today, at Stetson University College of Law, Dr. Davis is a professor of law, Faculty Director of Online Legal Education Strategies, and Provost's Faculty Fellow for Generative Artificial Intelligence and Higher Education. Her research and scholarship focus on legal communication, law and rhetoric, professionalism, professional identity, and professional ethics, and she is currently working on issues at the intersection of generative AI, legal education, and legal practice. Additionally, she is a consultant, trainer, writer, and blogger on various topics in the legal profession. We had a lively conversation about her experience becoming a law professor, how she has adapted to generational changes among her law students, why we may have a "process renaissance" in legal education, and her thoughts on how generative AI will affect legal education in the near future.

We're delighted to welcome back Bridget Mary McCormack, the former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court. She is currently president and CEO of the American Arbitration Association-International Centre for Dispute Resolution (AAA-ICDR), a nonprofit that provides arbitration and mediation services to individuals and organizations that wish to resolve conflicts out of court. Former Chief Justice McCormack joined the association just as generative AI was exploding onto the scene. Knowing that the technology would have a deep impact on the legal profession, she worked quickly with AAA-ICDR leadership, as well as futurists and technologists, to determine an innovation strategy for the organization. Additionally, former Chief Justice McCormack is a strategic advisor to the Future of the Profession Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School. She also co-hosts the podcast 2030 Vision: AI and the Future of Law with Jen Leonard, a previous guest on Pioneers and Pathfinders. Today, former Chief Justice McCormack discusses why she joined the AAA-ICDR, change management at a venerable organization in response to generative AI, the future of online dispute resolution, and rethinking lawyer formation.

We're joined today by Dan Rabinowitz, founder and CEO of Pre/Dicta, which offers litigators AI tools that can forecast litigation timelines and provide accurate predictions for outcomes of motions. Dan has had many different roles in his legal journey. He started as a litigator at Sidley Austin LLP, and later became a trial attorney at the US Department of Justice. He then served as general counsel at a data science company, and went on to be associate general counsel, chief privacy officer, and the director of fraud analytics for WellPoint Military Care. With all of these experiences, Dan took a deep interest in the innovation and technology side of legal work. Wanting to focus on data analytics in particular, he ultimately decided to leave practice and develop Pre/Dicta. In today's discussion, Dan speaks about the behavioral science factors that can help forecast legal outcomes, the information Pre/Dicta provides lawyers in a given case, how he became involved with behavioral analytics, and the need to think outside the box in the legal world.

In this week's episode, we're speaking with a legal tech entrepreneur who operates at the intersection of generative AI and access to justice. Today's guest, Kara Peterson, is co-founder of descrybe.ai, a free legal research tool leveraging AI to make complex legal information more accessible to professionals and laypeople alike. For several years, Kara worked in marketing and communications at various organizations, including Suffolk University Law School. She continued this work in the public health space for a decade, serving as Executive Director of Communications at Boston University School of Public Health and Chief Communications Officer at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. In these roles, she became further interested in access to justice. She would go on to create descrybe.ai with tech software engineer Richard DiBona, as a way to help people overcome the cost barriers to legal information they may need. This year, descrybe.ai is a finalist at the American Legal Tech Awards for both the AI category and the Startup category. In our conversation, Kara talks about what makes descrybe.ai unique and the problems it aims to address, how her hometown influenced her access to justice work, and her advice for legal professionals considering using generative AI.

This week, we're joined by Brian Corbin, Vice President of Legal Solutions and Operational Excellence at QuisLex, an alternative legal services provider that specializes in managed document review, contract management, compliance services, legal spend management, and legal operations consulting. Brian started his career at the moment in time when the federal rules of civil procedure changed, revolutionizing the eDiscovery process. As senior staff attorney at Covington & Burling LLP, Brian managed teams of document review attorneys on high-profile intellectual property litigation and federal regulatory matters for Fortune 500 clients. Later, he observed the rise of legal offshoring, so he decided to work for Clutch Group in Bengaluru as associate vice president of legal services. Brian then went to JPMorgan Chase, where he worked various roles involving eDiscovery, ultimately becoming executive director and assistant general counsel at the company. Today, at QuisLex, he is part of a team of attorneys, process experts, legal technologists, statisticians, and linguists working closely with clients to reduce cost, mitigate risk, and maximize efficiency. In our conversation, Brian talks about the "long and winding road" to his job at QuisLex, what it was like to work in different countries, how he addresses the fear around legal tech and change management, and what we can learn from the eDiscovery revolution as it applies to generative AI.

As the summer comes to an end, many in the legal world will soon return to academic settings as students or as educators. So, this week, we wanted to look back on a wonderful discussion we had with Andrew Perlman, Dean at Suffolk University Law School. In this episode, Dean Perlman spoke about his various roles as a leader in the legal industry, and we discussed the impact of recent technological advancements on legal training as well as the bar exam. Thank you for listening. We will return next week with a new episode. Our guest this week is a leading voice on the future of legal education and law practice. Andrew Perlman is Dean at Suffolk University Law School, and has been a faculty member there since 2001. Before entering academia, Dean Perlman was a litigator with a lifelong fascination with innovation and technology. He has served several important functions in the American Bar Association, and was recently appointed to serve on the Advisory Council of the ABA Task Force on the Law and Artificial Intelligence. Dean Perlman has also been involved in various national and local reform efforts—from police practices and access to justice, to developing alternate paths to law school and bar admission. He has served as a member of the Content Scope Committee of the National Conference of Bar Examiners, which helped to identify content for the next generation of the bar exam. Additionally, he has written numerous articles on professional responsibility and legal innovation, and he has served as a presenter or panelist at more than 100 academic, judicial, and other professional programs. Today, Dean Perlman talks about how his passion for innovation started with a Commodore 64, the history and culture of Suffolk, helping law students embrace generative AI, and updating the bar exam.

Today we're replaying our episode with Ilona Logvinova. When we spoke with Ilona, she was managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. Since then, she has become director of Practice Innovation at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. In our discussion, Ilona talked about her unique role at McKinsey, reimagining legal practice, and how collaboration can advance innovation efforts at legal organizations. Thank you for listening. We will return with brand new episodes on September 4th. This week's guest is reimagining the way legal professionals work as we explore new frontiers in technology. We're speaking with Ilona Logvinova of McKinsey & Company, a global management consulting firm. Ilona is managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. After working as a corporate lawyer for several years, and working in-house at Mastercard, she joined McKinsey as a technology lawyer, a position which ultimately evolved into her current dual role. As managing counsel, she serves a more traditional in-house legal role for McKinsey's technology legal team. As Head of Innovation, she architects the innovation transformation journey for McKinsey's legal department—a function that is still relatively new in the legal world. Additionally, Ilona is a frequent author, and writes about innovation and tech on McKinsey's legal blog and other forums. In our conversation, Ilona discusses her fascinating work at McKinsey, the nuances of adopting legal tech, training generative AI tools, and the importance of human centricity in legal innovation.

Last week, our virtual roundtable series returned with a fourth installment focusing on the company boardroom and how boards of directors can successfully navigate the high-stakes leadership decisions that are emerging with the rise of generative AI. Our panelists—Marissa Geist, Chief Executive Officer at Cielo Talent; Camille Olson, Partner at Seyfarth; and Paul Washington, President and CEO of the Society for Corporate Governance—considered the issues from both the perspective of board members, as well as key management stakeholders executing on company strategies. The panel covered a variety of topics: how the implementation of generative AI may affect the role of the board, the particular talent and training considerations that board members should have in mind as they prioritize tech adoption, and how boards should work with management in order to meet their objectives. Thank you to the panelists and everyone who joined us last week, and thank you to everyone listening today. We are off for the next two weeks, but we will return on September 4th with brand new episodes.

Today we welcome back to the podcast Jacqueline Schafer, founder and CEO of Clearbrief. Jacqueline is an entrepreneur who previously worked as a Paul Weiss litigator, in-house counsel, and assistant attorney general. Clearbrief is a legal tech company with the goal of transforming the legal writing process. Last year, the company launched its own set of generative AI tools, including Instant Hyperlinked Timeline and Verified Facts Section, which helps litigators overcome the problem of hallucinations when using generative AI. In our conversation, Jacqueline discusses the impact of generative AI on the legal profession, Clearbrief's new AI tool, what she has learned from working in business, and the emerging technology she finds most interesting.

This week, we welcome Kimberly Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, an organization which helps lawyers seeking new careers in other fields. Neil started as a law firm associate, but soon left practice to pursue business. Prior to developing ex judicata, he worked in legal recruiting for 15 years, placing partners and associates in law firms. It was during this time that Neil discovered that many lawyers had wished to leave the profession altogether and seek opportunities in other industries. Kimberly is a legal industry veteran who has focused on the legal events space, legal tech education, and project management throughout her career. Neil and Kimberly first worked together at Executive Enterprises, a conference event and publishing company. They went on to co-found Fulcrum Information Services, a venture-backed provider of management education to law firms, law departments, and C-level executives. They grew the company for five years before selling the business to a public company. Years later, Neil and Kimberly reconnected to start ex judicata, where Kimberly serves as Chief Connectivity Officer and Neil serves as CEO. In today's discussion, they talk about how they help lawyers transition out of practice, what inspired them to start their latest venture, their respective journeys in the legal world, and their advice for making legal careers more desirable.

Today we're joined by a true pioneer in the legal profession: Sanjay Kamlani, founder and CEO of Maker5, a law firm innovation advisory and software development services business that also builds new legal industry startups through its venture studio. Sanjay started his career as an international tax lawyer at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), focusing on US-India business advisory work. Wanting to do business in India himself, he left PwC to co-found OfficeTiger, a company that pioneered the offshore professional support services industry in India. At OfficeTiger, Sanjay served as CFO, general counsel, and member of the board. He would later co-found Pangea3, one of the first major businesses in the legal process outsourcing industry. At Maker5, Sanjay helps law firms and legal departments transform their processes, workflows, and outcomes. He is also involved with Duke Capital Partners, Duke University's early-stage venture investment fund. In our discussion, Sanjay talks about why he felt confident venturing into business, the challenges he had faced in the outsourcing industry, his advice for legal tech entrepreneurs, and what it's like to manage a multicultural organization.

Keith Maziarek joins us on the podcast today. Keith is Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman. Keith entered the legal world as a Marketing and Communications Manager at the ABA, where he learned about working with lawyers, as well as the business side of the industry. He later went on to serve as a business development manager at DLA Piper. There, Keith began exploring pricing and profitability matters, eventually becoming the firm's first head of strategic pricing. He continued in this field at Perkins Coie, where he worked as Senior Director of Client Value. Today, in his wide-ranging role at Katten, he collaborates with others to design, build, and implement the firm's robust and scalable strategic pricing, profitability, process improvement, legal project management, and client value capability. Additionally, Keith is a board member of the Legal Value Network, where he helps further the evolution of the business of law in the commercial legal services sector. He has also authored several published articles on the topics of pricing, client value, and collaboration, and he speaks regularly at industry conferences. In today's discussion, Keith talks about what led him to work in pricing, how discussions about pricing have evolved in the legal profession, the key factor about generative AI tools that people often overlook, and how he became involved with the Legal Value Network.

In honor of Independence Day, we're revisiting our discussion with Cindy Cohn, executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). For many years, Cindy has been a champion for civil liberties in the digital space. In our conversation, she spoke about the EFF's history and mission, as well as the human rights issues she focuses on today. We hope you enjoy the holiday this week. We will return next week with a new episode. As technology has progressed, we have also seen emerging concerns for freedom of speech and privacy. Our guest today has spent the past 30 years defending individual liberties in the digital space. Cindy Cohn is the executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the leading nonprofit organization ensuring that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people. She started her career as a civil litigator in private practice, where she handled various cases related to technology. Then, in 1993, the EFF offered her the opportunity to serve as outside lead attorney in the case Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice, the successful First Amendment challenge to the US export restrictions on cryptography. Today, she handles legal matters involving NSA spying, platform censorship, and surveillance technologies, among other issues. Cindy has received numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2020, she was included in The Nonprofit Times Power and Influence Top 50 list, honoring movers and shakers. In today's discussion, Cindy talks about the fascinating origins of the EFF, how she became involved in human rights work, how her practice has evolved over the years, and her strategies for protecting people's privacy.

Today's episode is part two of our conversation with Steve Harmon, chief operating officer and general counsel at Elevate. Last week, Steve spoke with us about why he decided to become a lawyer, his insights on the business of law, working in Cisco's legal department, and how he co-founded CLOC. In the second half of our discussion, we talk to Steve about encouraging technology adoption, what legal professionals can learn from past technology evolutions, how Elevate balances competing factors when using tech, and his recommendations for legal professionals today.

In this week's episode, we speak with Steve Harmon, chief operating officer and general counsel at Elevate, a company that provides software and services for the intersection of business and law. Like many of our guests, Steve has had an unconventional—but truly fascinating—career path. While attending undergrad at BYU, he and some of his classmates founded a company, prompting him to earn a business degree and attend law school so that he could serve as the patent lawyer on the team. He would go on to leverage his combined legal and business knowledge throughout his career. Before joining Elevate, he worked at Cisco Systems for almost 20 years in various functions, where he and his team built one of the most innovative legal departments in the world. Steve was also a co-founder and board member of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). Although he is no longer on the board, he remains committed to its mission to promote collaboration among legal ops professionals. We had so much to discuss with Steve that we split the conversation into two parts. In the first half of our chat, he talks about how he learned to be an in-house lawyer, the question every lawyer should ask their clients, his proudest accomplishment at Cisco, and his initial skepticism of having a legal ops role. We will be taking a break next week, but we will return on June 26 for part two of the conversation, where we explore Steve's work at Elevate, the impact of legal technology, and other fascinating topics.

Today we're joined by Carolyn Elefant, a change-maker in energy and environmental justice law specifically, as well as the legal profession generally. Carolyn is an attorney and an author, blogger, and legal innovation influencer at MyShingle.com. She started as a lawyer at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). After working in a law firm for a few years, she took the leap into starting her own practice. In her energy and environmental justice work, Carolyn helps innovative alternative energy companies navigate the FERC, state commissions, and energy markets. She also defends landowners and communities from pipeline infrastructure by helping them challenge adverse rulings and change laws. Nearly two decades ago, Carolyn co-founded the Ocean Renewable Energy Coalition, which has since merged with the National Hydropower Association. This organization has helped draft and implement the laws that govern offshore wind and wave energy today, and has lobbied for hundreds of millions of dollars in research and development for the industry. In addition, Carolyn helps other lawyers venture into solo practice—sharing her thoughts and experiences through her award-winning blog, MyShingle.com, and her book, Solo by Choice. In our conversation, Carolyn discusses the surprising reason she chose to attend law school, starting a solo practice, how she approaches legal technology, and her work in energy and environmental justice law.

Our guest today is Stephen Allen, a leading market expert and innovator in the legal world. Among his many roles, Stephen is EMEA Lead at Lotis Blue Consulting, which utilizes data and behavioral science to help companies with their growth and transformation. Stephen is also Chief Scout at Trampelpfad, which delivers innovative, established paths to success for law firms and legal departments. He has worked in legal services for over 25 years, having started as a lawyer in both private practice and in-house communities. He has played significant innovation roles at various organizations where he has worked. At Hogan Lovells, Stephen built an alternative delivery and innovation capability, and launched complementary businesses in financial services consulting and technology. He later joined Elevate, where he worked with customers to define their roles, and he designed market-leading solutions to business-of-law problems faced by law departments and law firms. In our conversation, Stephen discusses Trampelpfad—the business and the English translation of the word, why he likes working with lawyers, the lessons he learned from the telecom industry, and the commonalities and differences between the organizations where he has worked.

Today we welcome a true pioneer and one of the first legal operations professionals in the industry, Connie Brenton. Connie is CEO and founder of LegalOps.com—a community bringing together the legal ecosystem to drive competitive advantage. She has over 20 years of expertise and innovation experience in the industry, building community, and driving leadership. Connie started her legal operations career at the enterprise software company Sun Microsystems. She then launched the legal operations functions at the companies Oracle and NetApp. Connie also founded CLOC (Corporate Legal Operations Consortium) and was CEO of the organization. CLOC is one of the organizations under Connie's leadership that defined legal operations as we now know it. Additionally, she co-authored the book Running Legal Like a Business with Susan Lambreth, a previous guest on the podcast. As a result of her work, Connie has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from American Lawyer Media. In today's discussion, Connie talks about her decision to start LegalOps.com, what it means to run legal "like a business," the qualities necessary to be part of a legal ops team, and community-building in a hybrid world.

Our guest today is a prolific connector and skilled executive coach in the legal industry. David Cowen is the founder and president of The Cowen Group and founder of the Summit on Legal Innovation and Disruption (SOLID). David started in staffing and recruiting, where he learned more about the art of making connections. Years later, as the demand for litigation support and eDiscovery talent grew, David pivoted toward the legal industry as a subject matter expert in building office legal support and technology teams. He ultimately founded The Cowen Group, which became the nation's leading search firm in staffing and recruiting senior legal leaders and next generation legal technologists. Over time, the firm has transitioned to the events space, hosting legal events on numerous topics such as legal innovation, legal operations, and eDiscovery. Among these many events is SOLID, a global series which focuses on innovation and the practice of law. These working groups bring together the most innovative thinkers and practitioners to take deep dives together into the hottest issues in the industry (As a disclaimer, Seyfarth is a supporter and host of many of the SOLID conferences.). Additionally, David writes extensively on managing and developing careers, “the war for talent,” and the motivations behind investments in people, process, and technology. In today's conversation, David discusses why he founded SOLID, how he ended up in the legal industry, how he has kept up with client demands, and the importance of asking people for favors.

Today we're joined by Kris Niedringhaus of Georgia State University College of Law. Kris has a few roles at the law school: associate dean for Library, Information Services, Legal Tech & Innovation; faculty director of the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative; and clinical professor of law. For over two decades, she has been a law librarian and law professor at universities throughout the US. She has also been with the Center for Computer Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI) for more than 20 years in various roles, currently serving as an author, board member, and chair of the Legal Research Community Authoring Project advisory board. She is an executive committee member of the Association of American Law Schools' Section on Technology, Law, and Legal Education. Additionally, Kris has written and presented on topics such as legal research, teaching methods, and law library management. In our discussion, Kris talks about the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative, how law students should approach legal technology, finding her place in the legal world, and why she enjoys student hackathons.