Podcast appearances and mentions of tom irwin

In this episode, Tom Irwin chats to David Scott, who has just been appointed Honorary Professional of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews. He is only the sixth person to be bestowed the accolade in nearly 120 years and it's proving to be a very special year for David He is currently serving as Captain of The PGA of Great Britain & Ireland, while stewarding Dumbarnie Links in his role as General Manager. A former Director of Golf at Kingsbarns and Director of Operations at the Old Course Hotel Golf Resort and Spa, David's life has been steeped in the game. He's got some great stories to tell so sit back and enjoy the listen… Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

In this week's episode, Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll discuss the drought that is putting greenkeepers in a bind across GB&I. It's barely rained in weeks in many places and the skies look clear for a little while to come. What pressures are course teams under and do we need to rein in our expectations of what golf looks like in the face of climate extremes? Tom's also been putting in a raft of general play scores on his travels across the country. We look at the impact on his handicap and consider if adding a weighting to social scores could lessen the fear of manipulation while also providing the accessibility craved by the game's governing bodies. Steve is also put firmly on his toes by a couple of rules scenarios that could happen in your next competition. Does he have the right answers?   Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

In a new series for The NCG Golf Podcast, Tom Irwin sits down with Walker Cup star Hugh Stuart to discuss his fascinating life in the sport. A Life in Golf will talk to figures steeped in the game and who have watched it change over the decades. There couldn't be a better person to start with than Hugh, who played in three Walker Cups and an Open and is one of a tribe of legendary Scottish amateurs from the 1960s and 70s. Recorded in the incredible archive room at Nairn, Hugh reminisces over his career and reveals some engrossing stories about the characters he played with and against, the equipment they used, and the future of the game. Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

After an extended Easter break, Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll are back in the saddle on The NCG Golf Podcast. They reflect on Rory McIlroy's historic Masters victory and review their own first competitive golf of the year. But the focus, not for the first time, falls on the World Handicap System. After R&A executive director Grant Moir appeared on the podcast to discuss the governing body's new awareness campaign and much more, you have been writing to us in your droves to express your views. We go through some of the correspondence and weigh up the arguments…   Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

Tom Irwin is joined this week by James Wilson, of short side fame and clothing brand Manors Golf. If you've a penchant for looking at lovely pictures of golf courses on Instagram, you will know his work. And if you don't you should rectify that quickly. The pair discuss James' journey, the ethos of Manors Golf – looking at the game as one to be explored – and explore a whole other world away from scores, handicaps and competitions. Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

The best week of the golfing year? The Masters is here, the men's majors are back, and this is our comprehensive look ahead to events at Augusta National. Podcast hosts Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin have both seen the golf course at close quarters. They run through their memories and reveal what makes the tournament so special. What would you shoot round Augusta off the Masters tees? Tom also takes you through his infamous ‘Masters spreadsheet'. He's convinced the winner of this year's Green Jacket lies within. Will Rory McIlroy finally do it? We have the answer. As always, please remember to gamble responsibility. Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en  

Golf equipment has got expensive, hasn't it? It seems most drivers have crossed the £500 barrier and putters don't seem too far behind. But is new equipment worth it? In this week's Fairway or Foul debate Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll argue the case for golf club prices. Steve has almost been crushed under the weight of your rules questions – and he answers a trio of interesting queries – while, with the Masters tantalisingly on the horizon, he also tries to outfox Tom in this week's quiz… Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

Tom Irwin is very into his golf right now – and he's had a revelation. He's worked out the sport is much more rewarding if you put time into getting better at it. So in this week's episode of The NCG Podcast, our resident scratch golfer outlines what you need to do to make your dreams of improving come true. You'll be surprised how easy some of them are. Steve Carroll, meanwhile, has been on a trip to St Andrews, the Home of Golf. Which course did he say should have windmills on it, and which is one of his all-time favourites? Hint: Neither are the Old Course. Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

A vital part of a player's armoury, or just an excuse to get into a row about anchoring? Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin are back with their quizzes and questions edition. In this week's Fairway or Foul debate, the pair dive into the long putter argument and debate whether it's got any place in the game. Elsewhere, we talk about the World Handicap System (just for a change) – but this time Steve is quizzing Tom on his knowledge about the global order. We go through your questions, and there have been plenty of them, and Steve's been getting some grief on social media. This podcast doesn't exist without you. Send us your quiz questions, tell us what to debate, give us your rules or WHS queries. We don't mind what it is. Contact Steve at s.carroll@nationalclubgolfer.com Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en  

They're divisive. They cause loads of arguments. Are golf handicaps just more trouble than they are worth? In this week's episode, Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll discuss whether the game would be better off if we weren't so attached to a number. But how do you sort out players of different abilities and how do you run competitions – the lifeblood of a club season? Tom thinks he has got an ingenious solution that might answer some of these big questions, while Steve considers whether other sports have the same obsession with them. Should they merely be golf's answer to Strava? Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en  

Spring is coming, and so are the first events of the 2025 club golf season. Whether it's the Captain's Drive-In, or the opening medal of the year, we'll soon be back in competitive action with trophies on the line. But is it too early? Are our courses ready? After BIGGA chief executive Jim Croxton advised Scottish clubs to delay the start of the new campaign – arguing that committees needed to be realistic with the weather – Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin discuss whether it's time to leave the medal tees in the shed in March and April. And it wouldn't be an NCG Golf Podcast without some chat about the World Handicap System. Steve and Tom get stuck into the new pilot in Ireland giving clubs the chance to alter the Playing Handicap allowance in competitions. It's coming to the rest of GB&I in 2026. What difference will it make?

Welcome to the Halfway House – our new weekly quiz and questions pod. Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin try to outdo each other with a trio of posers, they answer your questions, and go head-to-head in a quickfire debate. Whether it's Rules Corner, our new Fairway or Foul feature (which this week asks if clubs should hand money back to members whose courses have been shut for extended periods), or if you've just got something you want to get off your chest, your involvement in this new podcast is crucial. So have a listen and then get in touch with us. Send us your quiz questions, tell us what to debate, give us your rules or WHS queries. We don't mind what it is. You are in charge. You can contact Steve at s.carroll@nationalclubgolfer.com

It's a twin-pronged podcast this week. First Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin discuss the fascinating USGA statistics that reveal the probability of beating your handicap. What are the odds of shooting 40 points? We have the answers. And is The Players the moment when the golf season really gets under way? In the build up to the so-called 5th major at TPC Sawgrass, we get into the golf course, our experiences of playing it, and hear from a key member of the greenkeeping team. We also reveal who is going to win! Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en

World Handicap System guidance says regular informal events like roll ups and society scores should be classed as organised competitions and players have a responsibility to ensure they return their scores. But what if they don't? With the principles surrounding social golf still cloudy five years into the new system, are we saying that those who refuse are breaking the laws of handicapping? Are they cheating? Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll examine what the guidance says and evaluate what it means for the club game. Are we a step closer to every score counts? Website: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/ X: https://x.com/NCG_com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NationalClubGolfer Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nationalclubgolfer/?hl=en    

Trendy canvas bag or huge tour monstrosity? Are you a pencil lumper or someone who couldn't get round the golf course without a trolley? In this week's episode Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll delve deep into golf bags and how they can reveal a lot about who we are as golfers. Do you give yourself shoulder injury by bolting on  100 bag tags? Is a valuables pouch a must have accessory? Do you get giddy about dividers? We'll try not to make this a seedy 60 minutes but if you've ever found yourself staring covetously at a single or double strap in a golf shop then this podcast is for you…  

Tom Irwin has been spending a lot of time at the range. Co-host Steve Carroll hasn't hit a practice ball in about six months. In this week's podcast, though, the two come together to talk about the driving range experience. Is there an etiquette about turning up to improve our games? What should we wear? Should we block out the world with headphones or take in the whole community experience? Tom's also got some very funny stories about when he worked in a driving range as a younger golfer. The duo don't duck tour matters this week. With LIV Golf now guaranteed spots in the majors, the pair discuss whether the assimilation of the breakaway league into the tour biosphere is now complete. What next for the professional game?

What do you really think of the World Handicap System? Tell the truth, because we now know the answer. We asked the question in our massive NCG Club Golf Survey, filled in my more than 3,000 of you, and what you told us was really surprising. Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin get stuck into the results, and analyse what they mean, and we also discuss dress codes – after you told us emphatically what you thought about those too. While these two topics may have been oft discussed, your insights shed new light on an always interesting debate – so get listening! NB: There is some explicit language in this week's episode.

Planning a golf trip in England this year? Want to click off a trophy course, or just fancy a day out? Don't do anything until you've looked through our new list of the Top 100 courses in England. Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin are joined by NCG's Top 100s chairman Dan Murphy to assess the risers, fallers, and obviously reveal what we think is the best layout in the country. Who makes up our panel? How do we assess how one course is better than another? Dan and Tom also go through the top 10 in detail and assess what makes them so special. Check out the list in full on our website at nationalclubgolfer.com

Have you had your emails yet? Membership renewal time is almost here. You're either already being asked for cash, or your about to get the news ahead of the new season in April. But how many of you are planning to renew? How many of you think you'll be quitting? Are your annual subscriptions going up? Do you think your golf club membership represents good value? We know the answers. As part of a massive survey of club golfers, filled in by more than 3,000 of you, we asked you all sorts of questions about you, your game, and the way you play and think about some of the big questions. In this episode of The NCG Golf Podcast, Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin unpack what you had to say about membership and give their views on what your answers suggest. It's a must-listen for golfers who may not have made up their minds, and for anyone at clubs looking to get a handle on the wider membership picture in 2025…  

Have you thought about booking your summer golf trip? Are you keen to tick off a Top 100 course on your travels? Prepare to get your wallet out. Steve Carroll has been looking at the peak summer green fee prices for all the layouts listed in NCG Top 100s Great Britain & Ireland list and it makes for sobering reading if money is an object. So what does it cost? What is the most expensive course on the list? What's the cheapest? Is the average golfer being priced out of a great experience, or do we just need to accept that good things cost money and that we can always choose whether or not to fork out? Steve is joined by regular co-host Tom Irwin to go through the numbers. If you're planning a golf holiday this year, you simply need to tune in. Apologies for a little bit of background noise in the opening minutes of the podcast. Bear with us, it does get better!  

We've reached the halfway point of our run down of the best golf holes on The Open rota courses. Now, Tom Irwin joins Steve Carroll once more to discuss the back 9 of his favourite holes from the 10 courses that have hosted the Claret Jug. What will he pick? Be warned, there are some pretty famous holes that don't make the cut. What do you think about his selections, and what would you choose? Get in touch with us on X.

Tom Irwin's been on a journey this year. He's somehow managed to blag his way round most of the courses on The Open rota. In honour of the journey, he runs down his favourite holes from the 10 courses that have regularly hosted the Claret Jug. It's an eclectic – so the 1st hole on Tom's list must also be the 1st hole at one of the venues – and so on. It's a meaty task so this week, Tom and host Steve Carroll run through his front nine. We'll tackle the homeward stretch next time. What do you make of his selections? What mistakes has he made and what did he miss?

We're not saying we're in full on Christmas mode, but in this episode of The NCG Golf Podcast Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin reveal their must-read golf books. The pair go through all their favourites – the best fiction, non-fiction, instruction, and travel books. What are their perfect choices? Tom and Steve believe they've got something for everyone. So if you're still looking for a great gift, or you just want to know what golf books need to be on your shelf, listen in and take notes! Read our comprehensive list of the best golf books: https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/best-golf-deals/best-golf-books-list/ Buy one of our best golf books here! The Golf Omnibus: https://geni.us/4oY5W Nice Jumper: https://geni.us/I8w3ORs Chasing The Legends: https://geni.us/JbTc Phil: https://geni.us/QsaQ A Good Walk Spoiled: https://geni.us/Bm4Z The Greatest Game Ever Played: https://geni.us/TflSz0 A Season In Dornoch: https://geni.us/hp9Ua Links From the Road: https://linksfromtheroad.com/products/volume-1 The Confidential Guide to Golf Courses: https://geni.us/qHzLCR The Spirit of St Andrews: https://geni.us/EsRBdg The Golf Courses of the British Isles: https://geni.us/3udja Five Lessons: https://geni.us/qv9qDMB Golf Is Not A Game of Perfect: https://geni.us/RraifBU    

Reports the American players will be paid to compete at Bethpage Black next year have caused quite a stir. Is it beyond the pale, or is it a paradox that the people who the galleries flock to see don't benefit financially from the massive biennial event? Steve Carroll and Tom Irwin get stuck into the debate in this week's episode and, as you'd expect, they've got some firm views on the subject. Does it besmirch the competition, or is it only fair? See if you agree with Tom and Steve!

Dynamic pricing has been in the news. Yes, we did pay over the odds for an Oasis ticket. But could it have its place in golf? We all know the weekend tee times that are the most popular, so what if you could pay more to guarantee a spot? What if 7-day fees altered depending on the specific time you wanted to play? In this week's episode of The NCG Golf Podcast, Tom Irwin returns to join Steve Carroll and debate this lively issue. We also talk about England Golf Jeremy Tomlinson's appearance last week, and, yes, we still can't get away from the World Handicap System. We ask whether you should have to submit every score for your handicap.  

What is it that sets the best club golfers apart? Why do they make fewer mistakes on the course? What are the habits that help them play consistent golf? This week's episode of The NCG Golf Podcast reveals all. We've got the latest data from Shot Scope. Tom Irwin, who loves to remind us he is a scratch golfer, and Steve Carroll, who couldn't get near scratch if he played for 100 years, are here to guide you through the findings. Do you know where you miss? Should you fire at pins? What clubs should you use around the greens? Tom will put you in the picture and Steve will probably disagree. Elsewhere on this week's podcast... Should the PGA Championship have been postponed? How did Tom get on in a couple of crunch match play encounters? And… are you allowed to hole out after conceding a putt?

Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll are joined this week by special guest Jim Croxton, chief executive of the British and International Golf Greenkeepers Association. We look at how golf has navigated an extreme winter, what the impact on our courses has been, and whether we can expect any lingering effects as the year continues. On Mental Health Awareness Week, Jim also discusses the work the association has been doing to support greenkeepers, we ask if they are being paid enough, and discuss the trend of ‘rock star' course managers who are making waves on social media. Also in this episode: In our out? What do you do with the flagstick? And can a hole location be illegal?

We're back. After a week to recharge and put our feet up, The NCG Golf Podcast returns for its third season. And what a start we've got for you. The sun is finally shining, we're thinking about getting on our summer golf trips, and we're about to unveil our best golf courses in Wales list! To set the scene for our new Top 40, which you can find at nationalclubgolfer.com/top100, NCG Top 100s chairman Dan Murphy joins Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll to talk about all things Welsh golf. What is our best course? Which are must play? And where can you find the best value? We'll reveal all. Elsewhere, as we start our new series: How has the season started for our dynamic duo? Can we imagine a Tiger-less PGA Tour? Rules Corner: Can you be disqualified if you don't enter your score on the club computer?

Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll are joined by special guest Jeremy Tomlinson, England Golf's chief executive. We discuss in detail the governing body's 'Respect in Golf' campaign – a movement which aims to promote greater understanding and embrace equality, diversity, and inclusion in the sport. Jeremy also talks about the World Handicap System, membership numbers in the country, iGolf and iPlay, as well as what England Golf have got in store as their Centenary year really gets into gear. We hope you enjoy the chat. Elsewhere as we bring season 2 to a close: We've finally played some golf! Can we put this terrible winter behind us? Why are we so suspicious of data? Check out this week's Readers Whines Steve tries to blind Tom with some tech trivia in Rules Corner

A major championship needs a major guest and we've got one for you as Ian Woosnam joins The NCG Golf Podcast ahead of The Masters. Also previewing the Barbados Legends Championship at Apes Hill, which is kicking off the new Legends Tour season in May and is hosted by the 1991 Masters champ, podcast hosts Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll dig deep into next week's tournament with one of the game's all-time greats. We relive his green jacket victory, get some advice for those of you travelling to the tournament for the first time and, of course, ask him who's going to win! Elsewhere this week: Tom outlines his ‘foolproof' Masters betting system. Please remember to gamble responsibly Are we really going to see Augusta Syndrome at your club this year? We've got a Masters special Rules corner for you to try and solve! The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball

Don't misread the date. It's not an April Fool. The big World Handicap System changes are here and, from April 1, the way you play your club golf WILL change. If you've forgotten what's coming, never fear. Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll have enlisted the help of David Kernohan, Scottish Golf's Head of VMS and Handicapping, to go over the major headlines. He'll help you get to grips with Course Rating minus Par, fourball betterball scores, and all the big alterations. We also discuss where the WHS successes have been and where the system could still be improved. Elsewhere this week: Free relief from divots? After Jordan Smith's horror lie, the age-old debate surfaces yet again What if someone finds your ball as time runs out? Can Steve stump Tom again in Rules Corner? More money!? Just what are those tour players up to? The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball

Food and beverage (or F&B as we call it in the trade) can be a financial black hole for your golf club. But we all want good food and a well-priced pint when we turn up in the clubhouse after a round. And we want it at a discount. It's our little perk for paying our subs each year, right? But managing a good offering is a massive challenge for clubs and, this week, Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll focus in on the issue as part of our The Price of Club Golf series with GCMA Insights. What are the numbers like, how have costs increased, and should we temper our expectations? Elsewhere in this episode… Steve reveals the most painful defeat he's ever had on the course as he relives his winter foursomes semi-final The pair look back at Jay Monahan's action-packed press conference ahead of The Players. Will the PGA Tour come to a deal with LIV? And can Steve finally befuddle Tom in Rules corner? The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball

We don't know about you but, for us, The Players is where the golf season really starts. This one is special. It's the 50th edition and Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll kick off season two of The NCG Golf Podcast by previewing the ‘fifth major'. The pair, who've both taken a spin around Sawgrass, break down the course and discuss their favourite moments. Did they get out of 17 alive? Rory McIlroy and Sepp Straka tell us what the championship means to them and Tom has set Steve a fiendish quiz testing his knowledge of the PGA Tour's flagship event. But that's not all. Far from it… What did we make of Anthony Kim's LIV debut – and are the courses letting the breakaway tour down? Tom gets stuck into Rory's detractors in Readers' Whines Is The Belfry all that? And which sporting celebrity is Steve up against in a winter foursomes last four clash? The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball

What is it about a bit of denim that sends so many club golfers round the twist? Author Clive Agran set our social media alight this week when he asked why such an innocuous fabric causes so much offence. Never ones to shy away from a bandwagon, Tom Irwin and Steve Carroll get stuck into some of the old stereotypes. Does what we wear really say something about how we act on the course? Prepare to hear Steve lose his rag. We've also got a packed show for you as Season 1 of the podcast reaches its climax. Here's what you don't want to miss… Has bad behaviour gone too far at the Phoenix Open? And can they rein it back in? What do we make of Tiger's new threads – and are we going to splash the cash? Can Tom land another blow on Steve in Rules Corner? The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball

It's membership subscriptions time again and maybe some of you are being asked to fork out a little more than last year.   Where do those fees go and what part do they play in the running of your golf club? Are joining fees really a tax on membership, an expression of loyalty, or a vital part of a golf club's armoury?   Steve Carroll has started a series of pieces for the Golf Club Managers' Association, and NCG, and he discusses these two key themes on this week's podcast with Tom Irwin.   Elsewhere Steve has a particular issue with people who moan about the rules, and can he stop Tom from taking series 1 honours by blinding him with this week's Rules Corner question?   BTW, apologies for the minor mic issues in the first part of the pod. Hopefully they won't ruin Tom's dulcet tones for you too much!   The NCG Golf Podcast is produced in association with the TaylorMade TP5 golf ball.  

We were joking before, but now we really do have a Professor with us. It's Patrice Oppliger, PhD (for real this time) of Boston University  and we are wrapping up season 5 of Single Season Record with this Krakow-friendly episode. So, so Krakow friendly. Why do you make it so easy to say goodbye, My So-Called Life?

It's a weird episode and you find us all on your bed by the end.

My So-Called Life moves into 1995 with a lot of self-improvement ideas it will never get the chance to follow through on. And not just because it only has a few episodes left.

Sam sits down with owner of National club Golfer - Tom Irwin - to talk about the history of Alwoodley Golf Club. The first design by Dr Alister Mackenzie who was part of a group of members that founded the club, how it came into being is one of the great stories in golf club history. A link to our Story of a Golf Club film can be found hereIn November & December we have teamed up with Spornia.uk, the no.1 golf net as rated by MyGolfSpy and Golf Digest. For 10% the purchase of any golf net, as well as a free swing consultation & the chance to win a Garmin R10 launch monitor, simply head to spornia.ukand add code 'cookiejar' at checkout!If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!You can follow us along below @cookiejargolf Instagram / Facebook / Twitter / YouTube / Website

It's Sesame Street vs. The Ramones and the winner is, as always, Danielle Chase.    

You gotta keep your eye on the prize, whether that prize is a comet or a dumb idiot with soft hair.

Is it a lack of self-esteem that leads to us posting a second show dedicated to episode 12 of My So-Called Life? Or is it an abundance of it?   Before Ashley Lyle cerated Yellowjackets, she watched My So-Called Life a million times and this is her favorite episode. So we mostly make her think about the score, which is the one thing about this show she's never thought twice about.

All Buffalo Tom wanted to do was gear up for their opening spot on the Lemonheads tour and now they will only be remembered for getting Jordan and Angela together. More importantly though: math tests.

With third host Hilary Woodward back again you'd think we'd be able to stay on topic better. That topoc being Sharon's father and his heart, not Claire Daves v. Bob Iger and whether children shoulod even be allowed on television.

Carrie Gillogly, PhD, MSCL and television writer Richard Monahan join us this week to explore the inadequacies of the Pittsburgh school system and the general act of being annoying in the 90s.

This may be the worst episode of My So-Called Life, but don't worry, Derick makes up for it by bringing up Robin Hood: Men In Tights a lot. Like a lot.   @ThatsSoLampy @KevynSchmidt @DerickArmijo @SingleSeasonTV   singleseasonrecord@gmail.com

Lauren Flans watched My So-Called Life for us and now we have to pay for her therapy.     singleseasonrecord@gmail.com

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing season one of "The Morning Show" on AppleTV+. This series stars an all-star cast including Jennifer Aniston, Reese Witherspoon, Steve Carell, Billy Crudup, Karen Pittman, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, and Mark Duplass, to name just a few. We examine this season's expert and thoughtful portrayl of sexual harassment and assault in the workplace by comparing and contrasting the complex power dynamics between Mitch and Hannah, Mitch and Alex, Mia and Mitch, and Yanko and Claire. We discuss that the "freeze" response is one of the most common reactions to trauma, and analyze how this may contribute to shame, guilt, and confusion experienced by victims (as well as broaded misunderstanding about sexual harrassment and assault). We also explore depictions of narcissistic personality traits (once again! seems like Americans can't get enough!), substance abuse, and grief. We really enjoyed this drama and hope you enjoy this episode! Instagram TikTok Website [00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist. [00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. [00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows. [00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends. [00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts. [00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like. [00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. [00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn. [00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started. We just wanted to include a trigger warning for this episode. This episode could include discussion about some themes and topics that might be upsetting, including, but not limited to things like substance abuse, suicide, self harm, disordered, eating, and harassment and assault. So if any of those topics are too upsetting, we totally get it. Please feel free to skip this episode and join us next week. Otherwise, we hope you enjoy. [01:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyzed Grip. [01:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: Woohoo. [01:35] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: We're really excited to be talking about The Morning Show, season one for this episode. I feel a little late to the game as this came out in November of 2019, and I'm just discovering it and it was phenomenal. [01:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: It is phenomenal. It really is. [01:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Did you watch it earlier? [01:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: I watched it earlier, but only like, last year. I wasn't watching it in real time, but I did watch it. I feel like the three COVID years are kind of a blur, but I remember watching it and doing a puzzle and so I think that must have. [02:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Been during COVID Yeah, there were a lot of puzzles. I don't know if that's a trauma memory memory in a long time. [02:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think it's just like, I can't that makes sense. But no, I mean, the Morning Show is such a good show, so we're excited to be covering seasons one and two ahead of the release of season three this fall. And of course, we'll be covering that as well, like, in real time. But gosh, what an all star cast. One thing I love about it is that a lot of the main know jennifer Aniston, Reese Witherspoon, Steve Carell are like, known comedic actors. [02:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Lighthearted. [02:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, sure, they've all done some serious stuff here and there, but like, man, they all really pack a punch. And they're so good. And I love seeing them in these bigger, grittier, more complicated roles. I love seeing Jennifer aniston like this. [03:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was shocked. We were talking a little bit about this before we started recording, and I have no idea how I was sleeping on the show. I think we kind of said it's like Apple's probably, unfortunately, like one of the last streaming services people think of. [03:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, it's like you get like Netflix, right? And then you probably get Hulu and. [03:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Then you're like, do I really want. [03:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: To pay for Apple or not? By the way, Apple, if you want to sponsor us, feel free. We love you. We're both paying. You know we love it. [03:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The morning show. [03:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: They have a new beanie baby movie out. Yes. [03:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With Sarah Snook. Yes. [03:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: And Zach Gallifinakis, which I read the book it's based on. Because obviously yes. I feel like that would be a fun one for us to cover. They have really good content. But I think you're right, Ted Lasso. But I think it's just not quite as popular for some reason. So maybe that's why. Did you have Apple back in 2019? No, probably not. It's just fabulous. [04:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I have not seen season two yet. I cut it off. I had to restrain my arm from hitting next because I was going to not sleep this week watching season two. And I was like, slow down. You don't need to watch it yet. But I'm like at the edge of my seat. What happened? [04:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. And I think when we started this podcast, Portia, we had some major shows in mind that we wanted to cover. You obviously. The morning show, obviously. White Lotus obviously. And then there's a couple more like, Devil in Ohio and Tell Me Lies, which we want to cover at some point. But I feel like we're getting close to the end of shows. I have to rewatch for the podcast, which I'm appreciating. So I have seen seasons one and two, but it is still so fascinating to rewatch. Like, even though I know what's coming, I miss little details the first time around. Like the button under the desk that shuts the like, somehow I missed that the first time I watched it. And even knowing the ending, like with Hannah rewatching, it is just really interesting to then see how do they portray that character's evolution. And I always wonder, do the actors know the ending when they get started filming, or do they not? And I bet it's different by show. [05:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it depends. And it's so funny that you said that because I just saw this morning that Sarah Snook read, like, the week of them filming the last episode. That tom wamscams. Spoiler alert for succession. Season four, pause becomes the succession. I read that, too. [05:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: I read that she was shocked and. [05:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was just like, wow, she didn't know. I think they want some of that to be organic right. In their emotions of like right. [05:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: And also so fascinating. [05:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. [05:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because then it's like she has portrayed this character all along, not knowing that's going to be the outcome. And that probably does influence how they portray the character. Right. It's so fascinating. Someday when our podcast is really big, I so hope we get to talk to the writers and stuff and just pick their brains, analyze them analyzing their work, and just make everyone uncomfortable by being super analyze. [06:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. How did you get this so right? [06:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Tell me about your childhood. [06:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Tell me about your mother. But we see Alex as a mother, as a partner at home, and she seems would you like to take it from here? As. [06:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: Again, Jennifer Aniston in a role like, as I was thinking about getting ready to record this episode. I was like, I feel like I think I know who Jennifer Aniston is, but I don't, obviously, right? But she is, like, America's sweetheart. I think we all think of her as doing yoga and drinking a green shake, but being really nice and like a girl's girl and having some dogs that she takes really good care of, right? And just like, an all around good person, right? Doesn't cheat on her taxes, eats healthy. I have no idea if that's true. What if this is her? Right? We don't know. [07:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I know, but I just say that. [07:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because this was such a different role for her and she did a really good job, and I loved watching it a second time. And as we get toward the end, still wondering, is any of this genuine or is she just like a huge, raging narcissist, like, clinically a narcissist? What were your thoughts? [07:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think I was back and forth. And as we often wonder, was that intentional? Was it intentional in writing or did she her acting just kind of come up with that organically? Because I think back and forth, I really was rooting for her or felt sorry for her. And then the next moment, I was furious with her. The next moment I was like, you're terrible. So I don't know. I think where I left off at the end of season one, I was really proud of her. It seemed like she finally pulled the wool from her eyes, which maybe she put there intentionally or not. I think that was the question. And decided to maybe get fired. I don't know if she also, though, right, sensed the sinking ship and decided to be on, quote unquote, the right side. [08:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know exactly. I don't know either. And I think that's fascinating and probably exactly where we're supposed to end up. And Jennifer Aniston did such a stellar job in this role and all the writers and everyone in sort of crafting her character, right? So to sort of back up, if you haven't watched season one of the morning show, first of all, go watch it. Second of all, the main plot is know there's these two news anchors on the major morning show in New York City. Mitch Kessler, played by Steve Carell, and Alex Levy, played by Jennifer Aniston. And the show starts with Mitch, Steve Carell's character, getting fired for sexual misconduct. And it's set in the era of MeToo, I believe. It started going into production in 2017. It was released in 2019 all around the time when the MeToo movement was really catching ground. On Twitter, on Instagram social media with actors and actresses, like, really coming forward about Harvey Weinstein, but then other major heavy hitters in Hollywood. We both did want to just make note that the MeToo movement and Hashtag had been around for far longer than that, about nine years ahead of that. Tarana Burke had started using it on her own social media back then, MySpace in 2006, to talk about her experiences as a sexual assault survivor and to really start pushing forward, like, congressional legislation and other sort of political and activist movements. And then it really took off when Alyssa Milano and other actors and actresses were using it. So that's like the setting where this is all created and interestingly right around the time Matt Lauer got fired for sexual misconduct, right? And I kept wondering, like, is this Matt Lauer or is it not? [10:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And, like, you know, I think the producers and writers or the showrunner had to deny it on record, but I think there's a lot of speculation that it's that whether or not there was specifics or, like, that's the general sense of what happened. And I think what I really actually liked about their depiction of the morning show is that they were covering all of the real Weinstein was there was that episode where Alex is watching a segment on him, and she's like, oh, what a pig, right? And then the fires, Malibu, like, all of that, and then the hired firefighters, all of those things were actually happening in real time. And I loved that component because it felt so real and sometimes not like I was watching a show. I was actually watching a morning show. [11:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? [11:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And so I think some of that makes me think it is kind of based I feel like mean, we have. [11:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: No idea, so Matt Lauer, please don't sue us. This is all alleged, but it seems like I mean, I think we were reading some article this morning that the button in the dressing room is a thing that he had, like, how sick? How sick? [11:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That gave me full body chills. And I can't remember who it was. [11:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: Mia. [11:46] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Mia who went in there, and she pushed the button and the door slammed, and I was it just it really. [11:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Does send a chill down your spine. So, like we've talked about before, sexual misconduct, sexual assault. Sexual harassment is unfortunately incredibly common. The World Health Organization estimates that the prevalence of sexual violence affects a third of all women. Insane. Like, it's like insane because I'm not surprised, but it's also insane that it affects so many of us just walking around and it's just so normal, right? And I think when stuff like that is normalized and this is worldwide this isn't just in American culture, but worldwide when it is normalized, it's hard to discern if what you're experiencing and those inner icky feelings are because of that behavior or because of your own quote unquote sensitivity or overreaction. We have a tendency to say about women. And so much of this stuff is not overtly out there until it is. [13:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. [13:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: But there's usually, like, a long progression we see that depicted in this show. [13:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And there were some I read a couple of articles and comments that were unhappy about that. There was some criticism on some of the grayness that the morning show took with kind of how it landed. And I think from my perspective, as someone who works with people who have experienced this, I'm torn, because on the one hand, it's like I think they did a really good job of showing the grayness. That makes it so hard for someone who experienced it to delineate, like, wait, did that really happen? And was it really sexual assault or not know? And then people around you also being kind of, like, confused or but because I think they wanted it to be. [13:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Really black and white, especially with Hannah. [13:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With Hannah. And I think, like, it was intentionally not her getting dragged into a bush by Mitch and she screamed because, again, as we talked about in earlier episodes, that's not common. That's actually more rare. It does absolutely happen. But I think they kind of hit the nail on the head. [14:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: This is what happened. Right. [14:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. I appreciated it, but I could also understand some of the criticism, just wanting. [14:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: To really be what's the criticism exactly? [14:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Kind of going back and forth right. With Hannah, quote, unquote, making the decision while after it was initiated without her consent to kind of go with it, as she says. She says that in the interview with Bradley that she kind of just decided to do it after obviously being distressed and not I think that they wanted it to be more clear so people who don't understand it would right. [15:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was just thinking that's such a good point, because I think in that scene so what we're referring to is this is near the end of season one, right? We see. So, like, Mitch gets fired and then he's all angry that these are all consensual affairs. How could anyone accuse me of these awful things? And we see he's out on a quest to clear his then, you know, there's this chance that now Alex might be fired. She's getting older. People are bored of her. There's all this backstabbing and stress going on in the network with the higher ups and all the businessy things. And then we see her spring on everyone that she's decided that Bradley Jackson, this new nobody from Nowhere, is going to be the new Morning Show co host. Right. And then Bradley Jackson is this truth teller, and basically, eventually it comes that Bradley wants to uncover the truth of who at the network knew who was covering it up. And that's all really interesting, and we'll get into it. But near the know, there was this thought that maybe Bradley would interview know they'd already interviewed one of his other victims. Maybe they'd interview Mitch for ratings and all this stuff. And everyone had a different goal with that interview. And as they're getting to that, we see what happened between Mitch and Hannah unfold. And until then, Hannah was just this sort of background character, and then all of a sudden, we really see that she was another one of his victims. And so I thought the depiction of this perfectly displayed the power differential between the white male head anchor and the black younger female. I don't even know what she was. She was like a booker, a junior booker. Right. So she's, like, fresh on the scene. He liked her. Right. So then asked that she be brought out to Las Vegas to cover that shooting. Again, another real event that happened. [17:09] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He complimented her before that, like, in front of and, you know, so that made her feel really good, really special. And there was know, I think keep going. [17:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: I'll say this later, but again, just a compliment. Not about her appearance, not about what she was wearing, just, like, about her work. Right. But it's like it's already starting. It's already starting. He knows what he's doing. That's exactly what it is. It's grooming. He asked for Mia to be taken off because that was who he'd had an affair with leading up to that. Mia had recently broken it off. Mia is also black, but she's older. She's been around longer. So there's still a power difference, right. And a racial difference, but different from Hannah. I thought that was really interesting, that they kind of show both of those piggybacked, and then we see him just take advantage of Hannah, who is clearly struggling with covering this awful trauma. So Hannah's already traumatized, right. Who's not, like, covering a mass shooting. Right? She's, like, vicariously traumatized, sort of coping with that. And he sort of is showing interest in her and things unfold. [18:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. [18:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: I can't remember the exact sequence of events, but it was like they bumped into each other. They were walking around. Maybe they got a drink. She's sad. She's sad. [18:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's giving her some advice. [18:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? She's thinking of him as, like, a mentor. She's young. Of course you want to be mentored by the head honcho. And then he invites her up to his hotel room, and that's where I think you're like, Why did you go? [18:46] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But again, it's like and he's this right? [18:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Dad fatherly figure. He's like America's, dad. And they say that a couple of. [18:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Times, which I think is, for me, so important, because, again, it demonstrates, like, he's not, I guess, to the outside world. And Hannah, like, creepy, right? So it's, you know, he's jolly, he's kind, and, you know, he invites her. [19:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Up to watch a movie that he likes to watch when he's feeling like, okay, you know, I could see how you might go again. I feel like I could see why you shouldn't go. Right? But I could also see how Hannah, not being in her most stable state of mind, could feel like, this was nice. She's so upset, she's so traumatized. This well seasoned, successful person who's recently complimented her work, asked her to be here, is showing interest in her and comforting her. You also don't get Icky vibes. Full on no. Until they're there and until it gets to that point. But then she's being traumatized again. Right. And we often think about, like, when trauma is happening, that fight or flight response, but included in that is the freeze response, right. Where you kind of play dead, right? And you see this in Animals in the Wild, too. And I think that's what happened. [20:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I was, like, playing dead. And I'm sure there's maybe a research article on this that it would be helpful to have, but in my experience, freezing is the most common response. [20:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Most common sexual 100%, it is. And what's really confusing, I think, for survivors of sexual assault like this is that psychologically, you're freezing. But biologically, in terms of arousal and things like that, that will biologically happen whether you necessarily want it to or not. And so that's where it gets really confusing, at least in my work with survivors of things like this, right. Because they might have biological reactions that you might have if you're having consensual sex. [20:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then the shame, right? Super shame. How could I have reacted in that. [21:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Way if I didn't want it? And it's like because it's biological, you can't control it. Just like you can't control when you're going through something traumatic. If you fight flight or freeze, you can't always control it. You're being traumatized. It's like your body's most primitive way of protecting itself. Right. So I just feel like you can't blame her. You can't blame her. [21:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. [21:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: She may have felt like who knows, right? That's just what happened. She was traumatized. I found that really hard to watch. [21:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That whole episode, really, I think, was so imperative to the season, because up until then, I think it wasn't clear if it was just abuses of power with Mitch. And it was, I'd say, besides the abuse of power and power dynamics and stuff like that, like consensual, where everyone's an adult here, but just affairs, right? [22:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: And up until that point, they had showed, like, Mitch relating to ****, played by Martin Short, in a way of being like, all these women are so sensitive these days, you can't even compliment a woman anymore, right? But then as they're talking at his house when he's trying to pitch, let's make a documentary where we get interviewed and tell our side of the story. And then he realizes, like, oh, this guy's like, legit a pedophile. He doesn't see there's anything wrong. [22:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And he's like, Well, I'm not like, or like you're this, and I'm like, it's so interesting that he right. He separates himself from ****. [22:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And again, yes, I think it's fascinating that he still thinks he's special or different. He's not that bad of a predator. He can't see his own action. He's not appreciating what he actually did. [22:59] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But then he's so good at manipulating Hannah later on that I'm like, you do know that's what I mean. [23:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, exactly. And it's like, he knew what he was doing. She doesn't have to say, like, no or stop. Even though she tries, he keeps going. Right. So it's like, at what point is it on? Why does a woman or whoever's being victimized have to keep screaming no from the rooftops? And why aren't you held accountable to just know that this is wrong. You should know. [23:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She says, I wasn't expecting this when I came up here. And, okay, so maybe pull back and be like, okay, well, what were you expecting? And then just talking. Okay, now we're just going to talk, of course, what he was doing. And then he says to her right, to get her to talk. That whole part was so sick, so horrible to watch. Like, well, you manipulated me to get the job. You used me. Well, this is going to come out. [24:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, whether you wanted to or not. [24:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So, again, that's another trauma and abuse of power and not consent. What did you think about Bradley's interview? Her conversations with Hannah kind of at that part. [24:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: So Bradley Jackson as a character, I find I have mixed reactions to, like, on the one hand, I love Reese Witherspoon, and I think she's a great actress. Some parts of Bradley I felt like were a little too try hard, if that makes sense. Like, yeah, she's a truth teller, great. But some of it was, like, a little too much for me. I thought her backstory was really compelling, like, about her dad and how he had apparently killed a child by drunk driving, and she had been the one to turn him in. And then her own brother's struggling with addiction and how she seems to be bearing the responsibility of that, both financial and emotionally, and her mom is kind of struggling to put it lightly. I found all of that really interesting. I believe we see more of that in season two, so I'm excited to revisit that. But in general, I felt like when Bradley was interviewing both the initial victim, they had come back on the air. And then Hannah, some of the things she was saying I thought were good things to say, like, kind of like therapist things to say, know, echoing back, like, oh, I hear you're saying this. That's hard. No, it's okay to cry. Take your time. Let me get you a tissue. She was very humanistic and relatable and could say things like that. When we got to this stuff with Hannah, I was just like it made me so uncomfortable because we already know at this point that Hannah is, like, uber traumatized. We see that she's abusing drugs. I think in Vegas. That was when she had offered to her coworker, like, we're going to be up for the next 36 hours. [26:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Do you want Adderall California fire thing. [26:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or that was in the fire. There was something earlier on where, you know, she has Adderall. She seems to be abusing it. Who knows what Hannah's backstory is? I wouldn't be surprised if there had been earlier traumas in her life or something like that. And then we see that she's not kind of she's been super triggered by this whole thing with Mitch and all this stuff coming out. And I feel like him just showing up at the morning show that day and talking to everyone and everyone's listening, but also looks really scared. I was so afraid he was going to pull out a like, I was just like, oh, my God, this is like a bad situation. Disgruntled, powerful man just, like, showing up. I was really worried. And then with Hannah in that interview with Bradley, I feel like I'm going off on a tangent, but it just felt like people kept re traumatizing her by pushing her or insisting she do things or like, forcing it on. Like, it starts with Mitch again. And it ****** me off. I was like, you've already forced yourself on this poor girl. You're doing it again. You are so manipulative and it's disgusting and you're just twisting it all around, unannounced, unwanted. It's just like, you are retraumatizing her. But then for Bradley and everyone else to push her to go along with. [27:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It, they're doing it too. I was so angry at Bradley because you could see that she was aware, because she was like there was some hesitation or there was some know, when Hannah kind of finally, quote unquote, loses it and goes on that monologue of what happened and how she's feeling, Bradley's like, Whoa. And it's are and then she kind of walks back and it's like, well, we don't need to do this. You're clearly upset. And it's like, but you made her feel this. Like you forced her to do the moral thing, which I think oftentimes is something that we do put on victims of, like, right, well, it's the right thing to do to press charges or like, you don't want this to happen to someone else. It's not your responsibility. [28:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: 100%. And I think it's so important that we keep pushing that message out there that when you are the victim of something traumatic or like an assault or something like that, you get to decide what you do next. Right? And it is so retraumatizing to tell victims, like, well, you have to report it. You have to do this. Because, again, the whole trauma was forced on them, something they don't want, they didn't consent to it's so intrusive and now you're, like, doing it again. Right. And I think loved ones, family members, society can be well meaning in wanting. I can see how people around you might want to support you by helping you step into your power and get retribution and stuff like that, but it's on that person it happened to to decide what is best for them. [29:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right? [29:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because, like we've talked about, the system isn't super welcoming to victims and just believes you right. That whole thing can be really traumatizing too. And again, it's like, Bradley, this whole time is like, I just want the like, I just want the truth. But then I feel like we saw her selfishness and own thirst for power there, and it was, you know, and it's like, Hannah doesn't want this. Like, she I'll tell, I'll do whatever you want. Just leave me alone and don't use my name. And again, it's like she feels, like, coerced to do that. She doesn't want to, but then they all just keep pushing her, pushing her, pushing her, and the network reaching out. [29:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And offering her this job. [29:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, it's, like, so sick. But this stuff happens. It happens. And then, sadly, we see that eventually she dies. And it's unclear. Was it an accidental overdose? Was it intentional? What were your thoughts? [30:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. I mean, it seemed like she was abusing Adderall. Of course, we don't know what she took, right. When she OD. [30:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think Opiates is what I'm guessing, because there was, like, vomit and stuff like that, and it's so lethal. [30:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. And maybe we know that we often see some mixing. Right. If you are using a stimulant to stay up, it's like, typically sometimes then you need a downer to go to bed or something like that. And those are when things get really dangerous. So it might have been in that way, accidental. Right. She was like, abusing Adderall and then needed to go to bed, and then she was anxious or upset, and then she was like, oh, I'll just take something to help me sleep, a sedative or something like that. And then that happened. I don't know. I mean, I think it could have easily been either one. [30:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I feel like I'm leaning toward accidental just because I say that. Because she accepted the new job. She wanted to get out of there. So she seemed what we call in the field, like, future oriented. She had plans. However, all of this turmoil is going on. She is so retraumatized with no support. [31:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And her friend Claire, right, they just had a fight. [31:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: They just had a fight, a falling out where Hannah thought she was doing the right thing. She saw Claire with Yanko, who's the weatherman, and was, I think, concerned for her friend that the same thing was happening. So she went to HR, and we'll talk a little more about that whole portrayal. But so she's alone. She's abusing substances. Also, in those moments when. You're intoxicated or high or not in your sober mind, you can make decisions that you can make such a split second decision. Just be like, you know what? This is too much. I'm done. So it's so unclear. It's so unclear, but it is so sad and devastating. And it's like, that's what it like. That's what it took to finally get people to wake up, right? [32:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That scene, you know, I thought was so well done with Bradley getting the phone call from Claire, right? So it's like the new guy, Malcolm, is, like, giving the speech, probably, you know, we're all family, even though everyone hates you. And then right? It's like then you don't hear anything. We're just hearing kind of the music. We're just seeing them mouthing. And then you see Bradley, like, walking up to the front, and then you see her turn, right? It's all kind of slow. And then she clearly says that Hannah has died and everyone falls apart. And it's just like I mean, the whole last episode was just like, I wanted more, like, of every scene, I wanted more shots. I wanted more. [32:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Know. I know. [32:51] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Chip, you know, beating up Mitch. [32:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was, oh, finally. So Chip is like the producer or the showrunner, and he's played by Mark Duplass. And then we also have the other people in power are Fred, who's the president of UBA, played by Tom Irwin. And then we have Corey, who is the president of the news division of UDA, played by Billy CrudeUp. He was like, my favorite character in this scene. [33:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He was so eccentric and quirky and I don't even know oh, my God. [33:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: And midway through, when he was helping drunk Bradley get back to her room, and that episode ended with the elevators closing, I was like, no, is it going to happen to Bradley? And it didn't. It seems like he was, like, just made sure she was safe, slept on the couch. But it totally leaves you wondering, oh, my just again, I felt like I was sort of back in thinking about succession in terms of trying to figure out, like, okay, so who has all the power and who's trying to overthrow who? And again, we have this board of board people with all the power everyone's afraid of and, like, ratings and all these things. [33:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: When Alex meets with that board, right, and they're expecting her to apologize, right. And she just kind of goes off on them and she's like, well, this isn't the apology you expected, was it? And it's like, it's all men, right? [34:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, all white men. Yeah. So getting back to Alex, I'm curious to hear your thoughts about her. [34:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So the scene with her and her daughter, I mean, obviously came later, but I think to me, helped me understand. [34:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Her more, like who she authentically is. [34:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It seems like she was a little emotionally and physically neglectful, unavailable to her family. It seems like she did, I guess, prioritize her career. That's how they felt. I thought it was interesting, her relationship with her husband. It seems like they were very clearly separated, but then would put on this show, A, in front of their daughter, and then B, also in front of. [34:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Just like the public. Public, yeah, like when they were going to that awards ceremony and then her. [34:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Hosting the party, she definitely, I think, dismissed him a lot. I think she was more aware of that with him. I think that she thought that she was a great mom and really present and there in the fight. I think it was interesting how she was like, I've done this all for you. [35:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: Not true. [35:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was interesting. [35:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: And she takes the pizza back. I thought this was a great portrayal of narcissistic personality disorder. I mean, I just thought it was. [35:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So good that back on the daughter, I thought it was so funny when she mentioned therapy, she's like, oh, I can tell you. [35:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: That I paid for. So if we zoom out, I think, like, classic narcissistic personality disorder. I think her husband accuses her of that at some point or points it out, but so we see. Alex is the center of her world, and she is famous and gets all this attention for being on the show. You can tell that her whole family unit of her husband and daughter serves her. She is the center. Her husband and daughter fall into place. They know how to play their roles, and they just do it no matter what. Right. And I thought we saw that really clearly when they were driving to that award show. And she's clearly upset about everything. But then her daughter starts to get really upset, and Alex, it just doesn't feel genuine that she cared. It's like, I feel like everyone in her life is there to serve her, even her daughter. And I just her daughter points that. [36:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Out in the fight. [36:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And then Alex can't take it as a narcissist would not be able to take it or be able to see and be accountable for their own behavior because that threatens their already fragile inner sense of self. So they have to flip the switch. [36:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Which she does in a really big way and comes back with. Right. Like, your head broke my body. I had to be stitched up after you didn't know that to say to your child. [37:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: And she says, like, F you, I'm taking this pizza. You don't come back from that stuff. But I felt like that did give us insight into who she authentically. And do you think that because maybe. [37:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was really clear to others, but not me. Was Alex assaulted by Mitch? [37:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: I still think it's it's I don't think, like, are you talking about the scene where she's talking to Mitch or just overall? [37:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That scene was the only reason I thought she wasn't right, because it seemed manipulative manipulating him. Or she could say that. [37:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then all of this other stuff. [37:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then in the last episode, there was some point where it did come up again, where in a way that really made me think that she was. [38:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, I think she was certainly harassed. Like, we saw that in that throwback episode know, he's commenting on the other anchor's dress and her body and like, well, you'd look great in that dress, Alex. Because then she wouldn't be wearing blah, blah, blah. I think certainly that was going on. And maybe now that we're talking about it, it seems like that's another gray area. Right. You don't always have to be victim or perpetrator. She probably was a little bit of both, I think. So in she probably was a victim and turned the other know, do I think she was as victimized as Hannah? I don't know. But I would be surprised because she has more power than Hannah. But certainly could be. Yeah. I mean, she would be, like, almost like the ultimate this is gross. But putting myself in Mitch's mind, like the ultimate conquest for him because of her, like, if he could get her, then I don't know. What do you think? [39:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I feel like it happened early on, 1012 years ago, and then she maybe forgot it kind of intentionally and then turned the blind eye to everything else. Or kind of told herself that it was more concerned. I don't know. [39:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's actually really interesting to think about, because I think they talk about there were, like, two times maybe they allude to having sex, but it's not clear when that happened. What were the circumstances? Were they both co anchors then, or were they not? What was the power differential with them? Yeah, that's a great point. [39:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And was it also just know, Mitch being like even just like maybe Alex was really down. Maybe she was having marital problems and he was just there. And they have this, like a that's something that I would like to know because I think it would help me frame her a little better. But I thought it was interesting, too, the shot of her daughter watching Bradley and Alex kind of doing that. I feel like that made the daughter feel more empathetic connected. [40:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Sorry for yeah, and I can't decide where I fall with that. At the end, was that Alex finally doing the right thing? Or was it her again, trying to just preserve her image? I feel like the pessimist in me thinks, like, a narcissist doesn't change their stripes. And I think she's just, like, trying to preserve her image at all costs. And this time it worked in her favor. You hate to say, but then there's another part of me that wants to believe in the good in people. I bet you believe in the good in people, Portia, because she was so. [40:59] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Unwell at that mean again, they just learned this happened and all of this is going on behind the know. I think this whole thing was, like, changing her view on Mitch, and I think she know that back. And, like, she had this closeness with him. She couldn't see him in that way. She couldn't really believe it. And then this thing with Hannah was like, oh, my God. [41:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Shattering. [41:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, he know a horrible monster like Harvey Weinstein. Right. That was so quick for her to be like, oh, he's a pig. And it's like, no, Mitch is too. [41:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. [41:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I don't know, you see her walking around the set, she's just like she throws the water in that guy. [41:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's all so, like, intense and organic. [41:42] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think narcissists also can do things. It's not that they don't have a moral compass. They're just there the circle of their moral compass. [41:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly. That's a good point. Again, maybe it's not one or the other. Maybe it's both. Maybe it's the right thing, and it's serving her. So at that point, because it is serving her, it's easier to do. I mean, she's a compelling character, to say the least. And Jennifer Aniston does a remarkable job portraying her, which makes me a little worried. Like, I hope that's not who Jennifer Aniston. [42:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't think it is. [42:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: It can't be. Right. [42:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I saw her talk Adam Sandler's like Kennedy Awards. [42:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay. [42:28] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: They've done so many movies together, and she just seems so funny and silly. [42:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: And down to earth. [42:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Down to earth. And her and Drew Barrymore were just, like, laughing about who's more close with him. I don't know. I think she's I know. [42:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't see her like that. You know, it's her acting skills. It's great. Yeah, good for her. She's so great. [42:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So what we also wanted to talk about is kind of comparing Yanko and Claire, their relationship and Hannah. [42:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. So again, we see claire is I don't know what her role is, like intern or something, but she's, like, from a really rich family. It comes out. But she wants to be in the biz, and Yanko is the weatherman. I just love how much he loves the weather. That's how I feel about science sometimes. I just want to tell people things about fireworks and the electrons and everyone's face glazes over, but I think it's so cool. So I just love how much he loves the weather. But anyway, so they're like, in a consensual relationship, and it's like it seems so sweet and right. It doesn't feel icky. No, it doesn't. [43:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: None of it does. [43:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: None of it feels icky to me. [43:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He seemed really kind of caught off guard and hesitant when we see the flashback of her kind of going up to him and complimenting him and then being really direct with a little bit more of a flirtation right. And him being like, whoa. And kind of walks away. [43:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like he's probably not used to getting a lot of girls because he's just, like, so into the weather. Right. But there's a part of her that digs it. Right. [44:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Tell me about I think he would have immediately then been like, oh, a compliment back, or something like that. And the fact that he didn't and was so caught off guard. I mean, again, if we're just based off the scenes that we see, it does feel consensual. She also seems really kind of comically in charge in the relationship. So I think it was a good highlight, too, of, like, there's also policies in the workplace for a reason, just because of a breakup. Again, like, you're two consenting adults, maybe even within the same role. [44:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. [44:42] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But it's still, like, workplace and things can sometimes end well or not go well. So that's why there's stuff in place. But it seemed overall not really impacted by dynamics. And maybe it did help that she was very wealthy and she doesn't need to be doing any of this, or. [44:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: She'S not doing it to further her. [44:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Career and have him fired. [45:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: I loved when she said that, but it was just so interesting to watch their relationship unfold as this is happening, because they've been, like, dating in secret and stuff. And again, it's like when you first start dating someone, it's not that it's like, secret, secret, but you're not like, hey, guess what? All the time. Right? Right. So you could see why they want to take their time, really suss it out and feel it out. But you see them getting closer as all this is unfolding, and you see Yanko genuinely reflecting and being introspective and checking in with her. And that is why he's not a narcissist, why he's not icky like Mitch. Right. And then we see that eventually Hannah sees her going into his room with the whole when they were in California for the Wildfires and the interviews by HR were just what did you think of those? [45:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, bizarre. I mean, I was confused why, if she is the one that they're really kind of concerned about, why it's such a horrible interview and why him being the one who I would assume them being concerned of being like, the perpetrator of it was like, great. I know it should have been reversed. [46:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: And it's also like, is this, like, the gender dynamic? But then it's like, yeah, why aren't they going harder on him? It's almost, again, like, no one believes women. Claire is saying, like, no, I wasn't coerced. I really like him. We're in a relationship. I don't want to tell you about our sex life. And they don't believe her, and they keep pushing and pushing and pushing. And I guess on the one hand, it's like, okay, you want to have some degree of skepticism because if someone is being coerced and the other person is in a more powerful position, maybe they're not going to feel comfortable to tell you. But you have to have some tact, right. And have some gut instinct know, when do you push? When do you pull back? And they just kept pushing her and made her so uncomfortable. [47:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Hannah not going to Claire, which I thought was a really good point first, and just, like, asking her, being like, hey, I saw you go into Yanko's room. What's going on? And then, like, I mean, there's two ways to look at it, but I think, like, for, like, that was a violation. Right. Like, her personal sex information is now being shared in a, you know, starting at the process and then the questions and then how it was left. [47:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was just, like, so intrusive bad. [47:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I think that's, again, we need to do better, because I can also. [47:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: See yeah, I can also see it from Hannah's perspective, why she would go and be afraid of her friend, and she's already triggered herself. So there's some level of projection and fear, and sometimes when bad things come out, you feel like and sometimes it is the right decision to go to the authorities who can help you rather than talk to the victim themselves or something. Right. It just gets so sticky and confusing. But it was just a really interesting portrayal of, I guess, how HR might handle it. And you want to think it wouldn't happen, but I don't think I'm naive enough to think and I'm pretty naive to think that this kind of stuff doesn't happen. [48:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I also think it's not and I don't know whose role it is, but I think it feels just like it shouldn't be HR's role because it feels so personal and delicate, and it's like these people you're in HR. I feel like there should be a line where it's like, if something like this is coming up, you're bringing in, like, a consultant or it's like, yeah. [48:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or it's like an EAP therapist. It's like, okay, let's keep it to. [48:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: From HR, who, you know, their job. [48:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Should be like, okay, do you feel threatened? Like, you should ask the questions, and if they say no, you believe them, and then you say, if anything changes, here's who you call. [49:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. [49:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or like, we have this therapist. I just want you to meet with them once and see where it goes. Right. Like someone else who can suss it out a little better. Right. [49:10] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Who's not then at work with you. [49:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Yeah. [49:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That just feels really weird. And in all sorts of sizes of companies, it's like sometimes HR I know the last place I worked, we probably had, I don't know, like, 250 employees, 200 employees, and there was, like, two people in HR, and I knew them, and they were funny, and they're desperate. It's a conflict of interest. It's a huge conflict of interest for these matters, not for the other stuff that people who are lovely in HR do. [49:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. But again, it's like this portrayal of HR I feel like HR went too far. They were intrusive and invasive, and I felt like asking really inappropriate questions of her when she had said, I'm good, I'm fine. I wish we could have an HR professional on sometime to sort of let us know what's it like, because this also seems really stressful for them. [50:06] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, and maybe there should be maybe the answer is, like, really significant trainings around this specifically and how to be delicate and who to call and when to bring other people in. [50:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like some people I don't. [50:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Know, that would be a question for them. Are you trained in how to manage a sexual misconduct issue at work? Or is it like just you kind. [50:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Of going by the book and from the legal sort of side? But what about the psychological side and human side? And I think clearly, obviously we're interested in that side, but it's a really good point. And sadly, I was so sad when it was really interesting to see both of their reactions. Yanko was like, Yay, let's shout it from the rooftops. I can take you out to a real dinner. I'm going to buy you a steak. And Claire's, like, that was the worst experience of my whole life. And then it makes her really doubt the relationship. And I think she starts to think like, well, even if it is consensual, what is everyone going to think? And is that what my whole identity is going to be in this company? Exactly. And so they sort of stopped seeing each other and they were both so sad. And then at the end, when she comes to him and he hugs her, I was like. [51:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: They did a really good job, I think, of portraying multiple women of multiple ages in multiple from different races, consensual to consensual dynamics. At know it was like Hannah mia maybe alex claire like, it was just Bradley. Really interesting to see all of it unfold. [51:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: I totally agree. I thought it was fascinating. I'm excited for us to cover season two. Start watching it. Now that we've recorded this, are there any other final thoughts for our episode today? [52:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't think just maybe Mia. I mean, I think we didn't talk about her enough. I wanted to discuss that one scene at the birthday party at the bar when Mia and Hannah and Claire all kind of like, get into it about Mitch. And it was just so interesting. Now, having watched the whole show and knowing all the details, like all of their reactions. Right. Claire is like, they've all been drinking and, you know, like, F, Mitch, we should burn his genitals. And then Mia has a strong reaction to that point. Things can be and Hannah's like, then asks Mia a question. I forget what it was, but that makes Mia then reactive and leave. It was just so interesting then being. [52:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: The three of yeah, yeah. And I feel like mia loved. Like, I feel like they had a relationship, not just an affair. I feel like they were in a relationship. And you even got the sense from his wife that she knew that, too. So I feel like like loves him, and she must feel really mixed up about that. [53:10] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: How did I want to know? How did it start? Because she knew about the know. I'm glad. I think Mia is know the season want. [53:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I want to see more from Mia. She was such a compelling character. Her character arc, I think, displayed the retaliation and retribution that anyone but women can face in the workplace with something like, so clearly. And we saw that in the past when Mitch wanted her off his team, and then in the future when Chip is trying to do the right thing, so to speak, and fires that guy for being rude and saying something inappropriate. And then she's like, you can't do like, I don't want this to be my whole identity forever. And it's just so complex and complicated. Right? [53:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then she kind of speaks into the mic right. The whole studio. And after another person makes a comment, and I'm hopeful that's kind of where it ends. And also then at the end of the day, with the situation with Hannah, and then with, obviously, Alex and Bradley giving that breaking news story, and then it gets cut. [54:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I loved how it ended like that. [54:16] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought it was great to see how everyone was watching it. Right? Like, Fred's, like, running down. Mia locks the door, she locks him out. Chip is outside watching it on Square, and so disheveled. And just Mitch is watching then and then it ends, which I thought was such an interesting scene. It's Mitch, right, sitting at the table, and the camera is, like, at his house, I think. And the camera is just, like, pulling back from him, and he's just sitting there. And it was like, 10 seconds, which is a long time for one scene of him just sitting. And I was like, that's how season one ends. [54:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wait till you see season two. That's all I have to say. [54:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: All right, well, we should wrap it up now. [54:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: But this was I feel like we could do ten episodes on this season. There was so much to talk about. I'm impressed with us that we got through so much so quickly. But for anyone out there listening, please interact with us. Let us know. What do you think about the show? What do you think about the themes portrayed? Do you agree with us? Do you disagree with us? We would love to engage with you and hear what you have to say. So follow us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts TikTok Analyze Scripts podcast, and we will see you next Monday with our next episode. Great. All right, bye. [55:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of Analyzed Scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with. [55:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine. [55:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

Can you win an Emmy without tears? Is the IRS our collective daddy? What is the name of this episode? How do you say Reef Break? Ashley Sutton and Sulia Altenberg are with us this week to answer all of these questions and more. 

Christine Coffey and Hilary Woodward watched My So-Called Life together in 1994 so we're making them do it again for us. And you, I guess. But mostly for us.   The Justin Tanner article.   @DerickArmijo @SingleSeasonTV singleseasonrecord@gmail.com