The podcast designed to give you insights on how our investors manage client money. Hear from Mackenzie Investments Portfolio Managers and Subject Matter Experts.
ETF investing involves far more than just the MER. In this episode, Markus Otema, Executive Director at CIBC Capital Markets, discusses the often-overlooked drivers of ETF trading costs and their impact on trade execution. He explains how bid-ask spreads can fluctuate based on ETF pricing and market conditions and explores the structural mechanisms that influence ETF costs and liquidity. Markus also shares his best practices for trading ETFs, including the significance of understanding the ETF's underlying assets and the potential pitfalls of trading during periods of market volatility. This episode was recorded on May 22, 2025.
In this episode, Caroline Edwards, Senior Client Portfolio Manager at Putnam Investments, offers a comprehensive overview of the newly launched Mackenzie US Value Fund. She explains the fund's investment philosophy, which centers on a relative value approach to stock selection and details the team's bottom-up idea generation process – an approach that combines fundamental and qualitative research to build a well-diversified and resilient opportunity set. Caroline also explains how the fund serves as a strong complement to the Mackenzie US All Cap Growth Fund, a strategy that Putnam has successfully managed for Mackenzie for over a decade. This episode was recorded on May 16, 2025.
In this episode, Matt Moody, Portfolio Manager and Head of the Mackenzie Ivy Team, shares how the team has been navigating today's volatile markets with a disciplined, quality-first approach. He explains why Ivy's long-term investment approach tends to shine during periods of market volatility, emphasizing the importance of focusing on the quality of the businesses the team invests in, rather than trying to predict short-term market movements. Matt also reflects on Warren Buffett's decision to retire from Berkshire Hathaway and how his departure may impact the company's future. This episode was recorded on May 9, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, provides his key takeaways from the latest FOMC meeting, offering insights into the Fed's stance on interest rates, inflation, and economic growth. He also examines ongoing trade discussions, specifically recent developments between the US and UK, and how tariffs have been impacting market sentiment and risk appetite. Finally, Dustin shares his perspectives on the significance of Prime Minister Carney's visit to the White House and what it may signal for Canadian-US relations going forward. This episode was recorded on May 8, 2025.
In this episode, Will Aldridge, Portfolio Manager and co-lead of the North American Equity and Income Team, and Tim Johal, lead portfolio manager of the Mackenzie Canadian Dividend Fund, discuss the post-election outlook and sentiment towards Canadian equities. Despite near-term volatility, Will explains why the outlook for Canadian equities remains positive, driven by strong fundamentals and opportunities in sectors such as gold and banking. Tim also highlights the potential of Canada's natural resources, particularly natural gas, and the regulatory challenges that need to be addressed. They also touch on the valuation and outlook for Canadian banks as a proxy for the Canadian economy. This episode was recorded on May 2, 2025.
In this episode, Richard Wong, Portfolio Manager and Lead of the Mackenzie Cundill Team, discusses how higher interest rates and persistent inflation could benefit value stocks over growth stocks. He explains how ongoing volatility has the potential to create a complex but rewarding environment for value investors, highlighting opportunities in sectors such as European cyclicals and technology. Richard explores the implications of Germany's substantial stimulus package and how it could benefit European industrials. Finally, Richard provides a detailed look at his investment philosophy, reiterating the importance of valuation and catalysts in stock selection. This episode was recorded on April 25, 2025.
In this episode, Lesley Marks, Chief Investment Officer of Equities, discusses the recent tensions between President Trump and Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, focusing on Trump's fluctuating stance on interest rates and its economic implications. She provides insights into the ongoing trade war with China, explaining its impact on consumers and businesses, and emphasizes the importance of de-escalating tensions. Lesley also covers the upcoming Canadian federal election and how the outcome could influence trade relations with the US. This episode was recorded on April 24, 2025.
In this episode, Tiffany Zhang, Vice President of ETFs and Financial Products Research at National Bank Financial, explores key trends in the ETF markets in Canada and the US, cross-border ETF investment considerations, and the case for buying Canadian. She discusses the growing popularity of active ETFs and what's been driving this momentum in Canada. Tiffany also discusses the implications of investing in US-based ETFs, highlighting important tax and currency considerations. This episode was recorded on April 17, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the current market volatility driven by trade tensions, tariffs, and changing economic regimes. Dustin examines the Bank of Canada's decision to hold interest rates at 2.75% and how the upcoming Canadian election may influence fiscal policies and potential rate cuts in the future. He also examines recent changes in US trade policy surrounding tariffs, the escalating tensions between the US and China, and potential for stagflation. Additionally, Dustin shares recent updates to the team's fixed income positioning. This episode was recorded on April 16, 2025.
Tax season is upon us, and with it comes a slew of changes and challenges. In this episode, Tim Brisibe, Head of Mackenzie's Tax and Estate Team, covers a range of topics crucial for navigating tax season and beyond. He discusses the implications of recent policy changes, including the suspension of the consumer carbon tax and the deferral of the capital gains inclusion rate increase. Tim explains the importance of understanding the complexities that come with significant wealth and how advisors can play a pivotal role in managing these complexities, connecting this to the concept of "homeostasis" for financial harmony. Additionally, Tim provides practical strategies for advisors to help clients plan for the financial needs of loved ones with disabilities and how to incorporate strategic philanthropy. This episode was recorded on April 4, 2025.
In this episode, Katherine Owen, Vice President and Portfolio Manager on the Mackenzie Global Equity & Income Team, discusses the team's portfolio construction process amidst President Trump's turbulent tariff policy. Katherine explains the importance of pricing power and diversification across sectors, regions, and styles in the companies the team invests in. She also discusses how these factors have influenced the team's portfolio positioning, including exposure to defensive sectors. Katherine also shares two examples from the "Dividend Dream Team" that illustrate the team's investment process. This episode was recorded on April 1, 2025.
In this episode, Phil Taller, Portfolio Manager and Lead on the Mackenzie Growth Team, discusses the impacts of rising trade barriers and tariffs, and why now may be an opportune time to consider allocating to small and mid-cap equities. He explains how US small and mid-cap companies differ from those in the Canadian market, noting that these companies are often leaders in their niches. Phil provides a detailed overview of his team's investment philosophy and selection process, which combines qualitative and quantitative analysis, focusing on sustainable growth and the uniqueness of a company's offerings. Additionally, he explores the potential positive effects of corporate tax cuts and deregulation on small and mid-cap companies, which often face greater challenges compared to their larger counterparts. This episode was recorded on March 19, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the Federal Reserve's shift towards a more uncertain economic outlook, highlighting concerns about downside growth risks and rising inflation projections. He explores trade dynamics between the US and Canada, covering current and upcoming tariffs and the political context influencing Canada's response. Additionally, Dustin examines current events in Canadian politics, the Bank of Canada, and Germany's suspension of the debt brake and its commitment to military and infrastructure spending. This episode was recorded on March 20, 2025.
In this episode, Movin Mokbel, VP and Portfolio Manager on the Mackenzie Fixed Income Team, explores the growing investor appeal of floating rate loans. He highlights their ability to eliminate interest rate risk and unpacks common misconceptions about Collateralized Loan Obligations (CLOs). Movin explains the regulation, liquidity, and diverse risk-reward characteristics of CLOs and how floating rate loans and CLOs can be accessed through ETFs, offering attractive yields with minimal credit risk and enhance investment portfolios. This episode was recorded on March 11, 2025.
In this episode, Hussein Sunderji, Portfolio Manager of the Mackenzie Ivy Foreign Equity Fund, discusses the Ivy Team's unique investing philosophy. Focusing on high-quality companies, maintaining a long-term perspective, and adhering to strict valuation disciplines, Hussein explains how the team has navigated the volatile markets of the past two years. Hussein notes that market volatility can create opportunities to capitalize on valuation disconnects. Despite macroeconomic challenges such as trade protectionism and tariffs, the Ivy Team remains committed to delivering superior risk-adjusted returns over the long term, aiming for a smoother path of returns for investors. This episode was recorded on February 27, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Strategist for Fixed Income, discusses the ongoing volatile macro economic landscape in North America and Europe. Dustin explains how the market is perceiving the impact of both Canadian and US inflation data, and what the likely implications are for Bank of Canada and Fed policy. Dustin also speaks to how the Trump administration is viewing tariffs and where cross-asset markets might not be pricing what could happen next. This episode was recorded on February 19, 2025.
In this episode, Lesley Marks, Chief Investment Officer of Equities, unpacks the potential long-term impacts of President Trump's tariffs on aluminum and steel imports. While the market response has been muted, Lesley cautions that these tariffs could lead to increased costs and chaos, particularly in the automotive industry. Lesley also explores the recent strength of the Canadian dollar, explaining the factors behind its rally. Additionally, Lesley highlights the strong performance of Canadian, European, and Hong Kong equities compared to US equities this year. This episode was recorded on February 13, 2025.
In today's unpredictable environment, understanding and managing market fluctuations is crucial for advisors and investors. In this episode, Haijie Chen, Portfolio Manager on Mackenzie's Global Quantitative Equity Team discusses the current state of market volatility, key drivers behind it, and how quantitative investing can address these challenges. Haijie also breaks down the construction of Mackenzie's low volatility ETFs and how they can be effectively integrated into an advisor's portfolio. This episode was recorded on January 27, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist at Mackenzie Investments, discusses the recent decisions by the Bank of Canada and Federal Reserve, exploring their future actions amid current economic conditions and looming tariff deadlines. Dustin also examines developments in equity markets, particularly the impact of the new Chinese AI model, DeepSeek, and its implications for technology stocks and energy consumption. This episode was recorded on January 29, 2025.
In his first week in office, President Trump declared a national energy emergency, sparking debates about the acceleration of permitting for oil, gas, and power projects. In this episode, Benoit Gervais and Onno Rutten, Portfolio Managers on Mackenzie's Resource Team, discuss President Trump's latest executive orders and their implications for the resource sector. Benoit and Onno explore the theme of reshoring and the “America First policy”, emphasizing the significance of Canadian resources in bolstering US industrialization. Lastly, Benoit and Onno discuss how AI is impacting energy demand in relation to electrification and the power grid. This episode was recorded on January 22, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, explores the potential implementation of tariffs under the new Trump administration and its implications for cross-asset markets. He discusses the role of the External Revenue Service and Canada's political and economic landscape. Dustin highlights key topics such as market pricing and expectations, deregulation, tax cuts, immigration policies, and potential changes in leadership. This episode was recorded on January 23, 2025.
What are fixed income markets expect from a second Trump presidency? And where might investors find opportunities? In this episode, Konstantin Boehmer, Head of Mackenzie's Fixed Income Team, discusses the Bank of Canada's approach and the Canadian economy's outlook, addressing the threat of tariffs, low productivity, and rising unemployment. Konstantin also shares his insights on the US economic landscape, the potential impacts of a Trump presidency on fixed income markets, and global investment opportunities in fixed income. This episode was recorded on January 9, 2025.
With the Canadian ETF market experiencing remarkable growth in 2024, trust and adoption of ETFs have surged among a diverse range of investors. Will this momentum continue into 2025? In this episode, Prerna Mathews, Head of ETFs at Mackenzie Investments, discusses the 2025 ETF Outlook. She delves into the sector's remarkable growth and innovation highlighting 2024's record inflows of $76 billion into ETFs in Canada—a staggering 45% increase over previous records. Prerna also shares insights into why more advisors and their clients are embracing ETFs and how these investment vehicles can be instrumental in building resilient portfolios. This episode was recorded on January 6, 2025.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the Fed's recent decision to cut interest rates by 25 basis points and its implications for both the US and Canadian markets. He highlights the Fed's forecast for core PCE inflation at 2.5% for 2025, which exceeds their 2% target, and discusses how the Fed is now factoring in the potential economic impacts of tariffs—a notable shift from their traditional approach. Dustin also examines significant global events, such as changes in government leadership and ongoing trade tensions, and their influence on market behavior. This episode was recorded on December 19, 2024.
The sweeping Republican victory is expected to have potentially significant implications for geopolitical risk and trade flows, and for the outlook of various asset classes and sectors. On this special episode, Lesley Marks, CIO of Equities, and Steve Locke, CIO of Fixed Income and Multi-Asset Strategies, discuss their market outlook for 2025. Topics discussed in their conversation include: How an incoming Trump administration could potentially benefit stocks, particularly small caps, and certain segments of the bond market Why the Bank of Canada will need to continue cutting rates in 2025 and potentially more aggressively than expected Why the resource sector may be poised for strong performance in 2025 For more insights and perspectives, download our 2025 market outlook. This episode was recorded on December 3, 2024.
Following the Republican electoral sweep, discussions have emerged about the effect the Trump administration may have on the clean energy sector – despite the US accounting for only a small percentage of the industry. On this episode, John Cook, Portfolio Manager and Co-Lead of the Mackenzie Greenchip Team, discusses the current state of the energy transition and clean tech investments, global opportunities, and how the incoming administration could affect environmental policies and investments. As a pioneer in environmental thematic investing, John believes the underlying drivers of the energy transition will remain unchanged. This episode was recorded on November 19, 2024.
On this episode, Jules Boudreau, Senior Economist at Mackenzie Investments, discusses the potential impacts of a second Trump administration on US small caps. Jules highlights how US small caps are poised for potential growth, citing cheaper valuations, greater cyclicality, and higher leverage on balance sheets, but emphasizes the necessity of rate cuts and sustained US growth. Additionally, Jules examines the bond market's reaction to increased government deficits under a Trump administration and explores the challenges facing the Canadian economy. Further reading: - The narrow window for small caps This episode was recorded on November 15, 2024.
In this episode, Adam Gofton, Portfolio Manager on the Mackenzie Ivy Team, discusses the team's investment philosophy and approach to long-term investing. Adam emphasizes the importance of finding quality companies at reasonable prices and highlights how corporate culture, economic resilience, and a strong balance sheet are key factors to long-term success. He also explains why the outcome of the US election won't result in any major changes to the portfolio, as the team continues to focus on investing in high-quality companies that can perform well across different environments. This episode was recorded on October 31, 2024.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist provides a comprehensive analysis of the potential economic and market impacts of President-elect Trump's return to the White House. Dustin explores the implications of Trump's proposed economic policies on supply chains, inflation, and the global economy, and expected focus on immigration and deregulation. Dustin also discusses the Fed's recent rate cut, future monetary policy, and the challenges ahead. This episode was recorded on November 8, 2024.
In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the Bank of Canada's decision to lower interest rates by 50 basis points and what investors may expect in the coming months. In China, recent stimulus measures have sparked both optimism and skepticism in the markets. Dustin provides his insights and the potential impacts on the global economy. Lastly, Dustin provides an update on the state of the US economy and explores how evolving dynamics in polling and betting markets ahead of the US election may influence market behaviour and various asset classes. This episode was recorded on October 23, 2024.
Are active ETFs really just ‘lite' versions of mutual funds? In this episode, Prerna Mathews, VP of ETF Product Strategy, and Chad Wood, ETF Strategist at Mackenzie Investments, debunk this and other common ETF myths and misconceptions. Their conversation also explores how ETFs are built, what can be included in them, and how they are brought to market. Further reading: - Your step-by-step guide to active ETF due diligence This episode was recorded on October 16, 2024.
In this episode, Shah Khan, Portfolio Manager and Co-Lead of Mackenzie Bluewater Team, discusses the team's unique approach to investing emphasizing the importance of free cash flow as a key driver of growth. Shah also shares his insights on the current AI infrastructure build-out, the structural challenges facing China and its potential implications for the Canadian equity market, and how the energy transition is impacting oil demand. This episode was recorded on October 3, 2024.
Investors widely expected a rate cut from the Fed, but the bold decision to lower interest rates by 50 basis points took many by surprise. In this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, delves into the Fed's first rate cut decision since 2020, its future outlook, and how it could affect other central banks worldwide. Dustin also examines recent Canadian inflation data, highlighting signs of economic weakness compared to the US, and how this might influence the Bank of Canada's future decisions. Lastly, Dustin touches on the upcoming US presidential election and its potential impact on economic policies, particularly regarding immigration and labour market dynamics. This episode was recorded on September 19, 2024.
In times of heightened market uncertainty, low volatility ETFs have increased in popularity. But can they help advisors manage risk without sacrificing their clients' equity exposure? In this episode, Prerna Mathews, VP of ETF Product Strategy, and Nicholas Tham, Portfolio Manager on Mackenzie's Global Quantitative Equity Team, explore the concept of low volatility ETFs, their performance, and common misconceptions. Nicholas highlights the team's unique approach and investment process behind Mackenzie's suite of low volatility ETFs. Lastly, Prerna and Nicholas share advice on how advisors can discuss low volatility ETFs with their clients. Further reading: - Low volatility ETFS: Ride out volatility without missing out This episode was recorded on September 5, 2024.
In this episode, Benoit Gervais, Portfolio Manager and Head of Mackenzie Resource Team, discusses the current state of the resource sector and provides his short and long-term outlook and trends on the commodity complex. Benoit shares his advice on managing exposure to the resource sector within a Canadian equity allocation, highlighting the importance of diversification and potential for alpha generation. This episode was recorded on September 6, 2024.
In this episode, Lesley Marks, Chief Investment Officer of Equities, discusses the latest US non-farm payroll report, unpacking its mixed results and the implications for the Fed's upcoming moves. Lesley also examines the Bank of Canada's recent 25 basis point cut, exploring how it fits within the broader Canadian economic landscape. Lastly, Lesley previews the upcoming US presidential debate, offering insights on key economic policies to watch for. This episode was recorded on September 9, 2024.
On this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, analyzes the latest US CPI and PPI data, shedding light on the current state of inflation and its potential impact on the Fed's decisions for the remainder of the year. Dustin shares his insights on the recent surge in market volatility, examining both technical factors and fundamental concerns. Additionally, Dustin discusses the Bank of Canada's rate cut trajectory and highlights his team's recent portfolio trades. This episode was recorded on August 14, 2024.
On this episode, Prerna Mathews, VP of ETF Product Strategy, and Luc Lafleur, AVP of Portfolio Construction at Mackenzie Investments, share their insights on how advisors can optimize portfolio construction with ETFs and how ETFs can contribute to running efficient advisory practices. Prerna and Luc explore the impact of global economic drivers on portfolio strategies and the importance of aligning strategic asset allocation with investment goals. Prerna and Luc also discuss active and passive investing, how to avoid common portfolio construction mistakes, and the versatility of ETFs in both strategic and tactical allocations. Further Reading: - How advisors can fight behavioural biases with ETFs - Your step-by-step guide to active ETF due diligence This episode was recorded on July 26, 2024.
Although the market did not anticipate a rate cut, early indications suggest the Fed is leaning towards cutting rates in September. On this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the recent Fed meeting, analyzing the Fed's forward guidance and the likelihood of upcoming rate cuts. Dustin also highlights key Canadian economic data and potential further rate cuts by the BoC, updates from the Bank of Japan, and insights on the US election's potential impacts on market volatility. This episode was recorded on August 1, 2024.
On this episode, Lesley Marks, Chief Investment Officer of Equities, discusses the Bank of Canada's latest rate cut decision, explores the driving factors behind monetary policy and its implications for the Canadian economy. Lesley also offers her insights on the commodity market, highlighting how copper is poised for growth and its crucial role in the energy transition and AI infrastructure. This episode was recorded on July 26, 2024.
On this special episode of Market Exchange, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, recaps the pivotal events leading to Vice President Kamala Harris' rise as the presumptive Democratic nominee. Dustin analyzes the potential market and economic implications of a Harris administration. Dustin also explores the dynamics of the so-called ‘Trump trade' and examines how the Vice Presidential nominees could influence this year's election. This episode was recorded on July 25, 2024.
Is value investing poised for a comeback in the current market environment? In this episode, Richard Wong, Portfolio Manager and Head of Mackenzie Cundill Team, explores this question. Richard discusses why he believes the market is shifting towards value, highlighting value investing's historical outperformance during periods of structurally positive inflation and interest rates. Richard also discusses three categories of value stocks – quality, cyclical, and deep value – and where he sees opportunities. This episode was recorded on July 9, 2024.
On this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, discusses the latest CPI data and its implications for the Fed's monetary policy. Could this suggest a path forward for the Fed to begin a rate cutting cycle as we approach the end of the summer? Dustin also explores the potential market implications of a Trump victory and a Republican sweep in the upcoming US elections. This episode was recorded on July 11, 2024.
What are active ETFs and what is behind their growing popularity in Canada? On this episode, Prerna Mathews, VP of ETF Product Strategy, and Andres Rincon, Head of ETF Sales and Strategy at TD Securities, discuss the intricacies of active ETF structures, and the similarities and differences in trade experiences between active and index ETFs for advisors and investors. Prerna and Andres also examine the impact of trading global equity and fixed income ETFs in a T+1 trading environment. Further Reading: - The value of active fixed income ETFs This episode was recorded on June 20, 2024.
What has been causing the surprising upward trend in gold prices despite rising real rates? On this episode, Benoit Gervais, Portfolio Manager and Head of Mackenzie Resource Team, explores how the demand for gold has been shifting from the Western world to Asia. Benoit also discusses the factors influencing commodity trends such as politics, the energy transition, and AI's impact on today's market. This episode was recorded on June 14, 2024.
With CPI showing signs of easing, indications from the Fed reveal they aren't in a rush to lower rates. On this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist at Mackenzie Investments, discusses how the markets have been reacting to the latest CPI report and Fed decision. Dustin also touches on the ECB's decision to cut its benchmark rate by 25 basis points, increased volatility in emerging markets – specifically in Mexico – and recent portfolio trades. This episode was recorded on June 13, 2024.
The investment and economic water have smoothed over the last six months, yet market expectations of interest rate cuts were challenged by resilient growth and inflation. On this special episode, Lesley Marks, CIO of Equities, and Steve Locke, CIO of Fixed Income and Multi-Asset Strategies, discusses their market outlook for the rest of 2024. Topics discussed in their conversation include: Global growth and the US economy Inflation and interest rates Bond market volatility and opportunities Impacts of the energy transition on equity and fixed income markets Market implications of generative AI Geographic investment opportunities For more insights and perspectives, download our 2024 mid-year market outlook. This episode was recorded on May 31, 2024.
What's the significance of the Bank of Canada's decision to cut interest rates and what could it mean for investors? On this episode, Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist, breaks down the BoC's decision to cut interest rates by 25 basis points. As the first G7 country to do so, what could this mean for the coming months? Dustin also discusses recent election results in South Africa, Mexico, and India and their potential impact on market volatility. This episode was recorded on June 5, 2024.
For over 30 years, the Mackenzie Ivy Team has established itself as one of the most time-tested defensive strategies, focusing on quality, long-term sustainability, and corporate culture. On this episode, Matt Moody, Portfolio Manager and Head of Mackenzie Ivy team, discusses the team's approach to stock selection and portfolio construction and how they seek companies with competitive advantages, good growth prospects, and high returns on capital. Matt also explains how Ivy's approach aligns with the goal of providing clients with a stable and reliable investment experience, even during volatile market environments. This episode was recorded on May 21, 2024.
After a strong first quarter, equity markets experienced a pullback in April as odds of a forthcoming rate cut by the Fed seem unlikely. On this episode, Lesley Marks, Chief Investment Officer of Equities, discusses the negative performance of the equity markets in April. Lesley suggests it was a modest pullback rather than the start of a downward trend. Lesley also shares her insights on the latest earnings season and explores the potential impacts of diverging policies between the Fed and Bank of Canada. This episode was recorded on May 6, 2024.
Is the Bank of Canada hinting at a rate cut in June, even as the Fed adopts a more hawkish stance? On this episode, Matthew Schnurr and Dustin Reid, Chief Fixed Income Strategist at Mackenzie Investments, discuss the implications of the Fed's latest meeting and its unexpected adjustments to their quantitative tightening program. Given the unique economic pressures in contrast to the US, Dustin explores the possibility of the BoC to begin cutting rates in June. This episode was recorded on May 2, 2024.