Nature vs Narcissism

This is Part 2 of the Albert DeSalvo case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?We talked lot about HOW someone would have been able to gain access to each of the victim's homes without a struggle. As if they knew the perpetrator or trusted them for some reason. But the victimology still doesn't add up for us. At least not if it was one killer.QUESTION FOR YOU: Do you think DeSalvo was the Boston Strangler? What about Nassar? Do you even believe that it was one perpetrator who committed all the murders? Share your thoughts with us!QUESTION FOR YOU: Do you know what Albert DeSalvo did for a living/as an occupation?If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.com Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.

Born on September 3, 1931 in Chelsea, Massachusetts to parents Frank and Charlotte DeSalvo; Albert Henry DeSalvo who eventually confessed to being the “Boston Strangler”. From 1962 to 1964; the Boston Strangler was an American rapist and serial killer who was linked to 13 murders of women in the Boston, Massachusetts area. In 1967, DeSalvo was imprisoned for life for a series of rapes…his murder confession though, has been disputed and there remains debate around which crimes he did or not commit. But we will get more into that, later in this episode. For this episode, I tried to stick to the dates and the facts that we knew about him/his criminal life. I even went a little bit into Part 2 territory in discussing alternate suspects, but I thought it was an important detail. In part 2, We will delve more into the doubts about DeSalvo's guilt as the Boston Strangler as well as our thoughts regarding his crimes, behavior, and some interesting pop culture connections as well.So, join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.com Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.

Hello friends! This is a BONUS 2-parter about St. Patty's Day! In part 2, you will hear a mash-up of different crimes and deaths that occurred on St. Patrick's Day.Courtney from The Cult of Domesticity Podcast joins in on the conversation, share her knowledge and experiences with Solon, Ohio, and to provide helpful information about when to call the cops.

Hello friends! This is a BONUS 2-parter about St. Patty's Day! In part 1, you will hear all about St. Patty's Day and the history, celebrations, legends, and more.Courtney from The Cult of Domesticity Podcast joins in to share a wealth of knowledge on the topic at hand!

As promised; LILY SPARKS is back!!!In this BONUS episode, Lily and Heather discuss their thoughts on the 1973 film "Badlands". Throughout the episode, you will hear their thoughts and opinions about the film, the connections it has to the Charles Starkweather & Caril Ann Fugate case, the psychology connections, and some interesting facts and trivia about the film.Check out her book: Teen Killers ClubCheck out the interview episode: Teen Killers Club - Interview with the author: Lily SparksCheck out the Charles Starkweather & Caril Ann Fugate (Part 2) episode: Charles Starkweather & Caril Ann Fugate (Part 2) ----If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.comUntil next time; stay inside, stay alive.

Welcome to part 2 of the Charles Starkweather & Caril Ann Fugate case. For this episode, I have a returning guest joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. LILY SPARKS is back!!!Check out her book: Teen Killers ClubCheck out the interview episode: Teen Killers Club - Interview with the author: Lily Sparks----If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.comUntil next time; stay inside, stay alive.

On January 28, 1958, Charles Starkweather, a 19-year-old high-school dropout from Lincoln, Nebraska and his 14-year-old girlfriend, Caril Ann Fugate, kill a Lincoln businessman, his wife and their maid, as part of a murderous crime spree that began a week earlier and would ultimately leave 11 people and 2 dogs dead.The killer couple's deadly road trip, which generated enormous media attention and a massive manhunt, came to an end the following day, when Starkweather and Fugate were arrested near Douglas, Wyoming. The crimes later inspired a slew of books, movies and music, including Terence Malick's 1973 film “Badlands,” starring Martin Sheen and Sissy Spacek, and Bruce Springsteen's 1982 song “Nebraska.”------------For this episode, I stuck to the dates and the facts that we knew about them and their criminal life. In part 2, We will delve more into our thoughts regarding the pair's crimes, behavior, the discrepancies between their stories, and the pop culture around this case.So, join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Lily (author of Teen Killers Club) and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.comUntil next time; stay inside, stay alive.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE ON THE PATREON FEED. This is a Sneak Peek.In this episode, Julie and Heather discuss their thoughts on the 1977 film "The Hills Have Eyes" as well as its 2006 remake, of the same name. Throughout the episode, you will hear their thoughts and opinions about each of the films, the connections they have to true crime and psychology, and some interesting facts and trivia about both films.

This is Part 2 about the Bender Clan. On this episode, I have Brittany joining me to talk about the business venture that this family started up & and how well it paid off for them. Or IF it paid off for them. Were they ALWAYS the Benders? Were they ALWAYS murderers? Were they ever even a real family? Were they the Kelly family too??What are your thoughts?If any of it is true...was it nature? Nurture? Or narcissism??------Also - we do talk about the Superbowl, just a bit and are curious who you think will win?! Let us know!------Join us for the conversation! Give us your thoughts and what you've heard about the legend/case/story!

We've talked about another clan…Sawney Beane's clan. That massive 48-incestuous member family of human hunting, flesh eating, cannibal killers. But that family was located off the Galloway coast in Scotland. And, if you've listened to part 2 of that - then you know our feelings about that family.So, we will move on. On to another clan. One that originated in the USofA. This family is known as America's first family of Serial Killers. Again, not one of Brittany's favorite topics…but I'm gonna reel her in on this one, I promise! Their story begins much like all the other families of that time period. We're at a time in US history when the Homestead Act of 1862 just went into effect. October of 1870 - five families move to this Osage area and settle around 7 miles from where the city of Cherryvale would be established later on, in 1880. One of these families was, yup, you guessed it, the Benders. A family of 4; Ma, Pa, Jr. and Kate. And they moved onto a 160 acre property facing the Osage Trail.They ended up using canvas to spit their ONE ROOM cabin into two rooms. The back room remained as a sort of living quarters for the family. The front section, however, was converted into a general store, kitchen, and dining area where those who were passing through could grab a warm meal, some dry goods to take with them along their travels, or a good night's rest. This was known as Bender Inn. But they definitely wouldn't receive 5 stars on Yelp, that's for sure.To earn money…and apparently thrills…Sr. and Ma ran this crude ramshackle killer hotel of sorts, with their Jr. and Kate. Fun! A family affair! Now, although the number isn't quite as high as the Beane clan's numbers; there were still more than a dozen travelers who never made it out of that hotel.----Check back tomorrow for Part 2!Sources will be up on the website soon.

This is Part 2 about the Sawney Beane Clan. On this episode, I have Brittany joining me to talk about the case...the lore...the legend of this 48-member incestuous clan who is said to have killed potentially 1,000 people.But, DID they???What is true about this? Anything? How did this story come about? What are your thoughts?If any of it is true...was it nature? Nurture? Or narcissism??------Join us for the conversation! Give us your thoughts and what you've heard about the legend/case/story!Promo: True Crime Horror Story Podcast

“According to legend, Sawney Beane was a fifteenth-century Scottish peasant who grew fed up with farming and turned to highway robbery. With his hard-bitten common law wife, he holed up in a seaside cavern on the Galloway coast and sired a large brood of children. Eventually, through incestuous mating, the family swelled to forty-eight members, who subsisted by preying on unwary travelers, devouring their flesh, and pickling the leftover meat in seawater” (Schechter & Everitt, p.54).The number of victims remains unknown, but estimates are close to 1,000 people who have fallen prey to this vicious clan. Locals were ill-prepared for the truth when they assumed people were being eaten by a pack of wolves, or some supernatural creature…only to find that it was a family who had been hunting, killing, and eating the lost/disappeared.But how did they find out? Well, let's go into the story a bit more and learn how this family was captured. Or IF they were captured…------For this episode, I gathered as many agreed upon facts as I could, to relay the story. However, are those agreed upon facts actually facts? Or fable? You decide.Join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast ) and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, the holes that have been poked in this story throughout history, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!Until next time; stay inside, stay alive.

This is a SNEAK PEEK of the FULL PATREON episode.In this episode, Brittany and Heather discuss their thoughts on the 1960 film "Psycho" as well as the 1991 film "The Silence of the Lambs". Throughout the episode, you will hear their thoughts and opinions about each of the films, the connections they have to true crime and psychology, and some interesting facts and trivia about both films.Again, this is a sneak peek; which means that this is only about half of the episode. You can listen to the entire episode on Patreon, for just $1 per month! Hope to see you over there!

This is a SNEAK PEEK of the FULL PATREON episode.In this episode, Brittany and Heather discuss their thoughts on the 1974 film by Tobe Hooper, "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre". Throughout the episode, you will hear their thoughts and opinions about the film as a whole, the connections it has to true crime, how the story came to be, and some interesting facts about the filming process.Again, this is a sneak peek; which means that this is only about half of the episode. You can listen to the entire episode on Patreon, for just $1 per month! Hope to see you over there!Review discussed in the episode: https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-texas-chain-saw-massacre-1974 Brittany's podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/where-the-weird-things-are/id1589823107?uo=4

This is Part 2 of the Ed Gein case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?Since there wasn't a lot of extra/new information about Gein, that we could include in this part...we discussed several things. We started the episode off by back-tracking to last week's episode and discussing a bit about Chikatilo's execution. Then we moved into a bit of dark humor surrounding Heather's mother's death...sometimes, it's the only way to cope when you're having a hard time around the holidays.Getting more into the meat and potatoes of Gein's case though; we touched base on the "recipe for a killer" and discussed how people rationalize why people kill.We discussed some myths about Ed Gein and how we feel about those myths.We wanted to round the episode out with some interesting information and what to look forward to in the new year...so, we talked about the origins of the NVN logo art work as well as the movies that we will be reviewing on the main feed and Patreon feed!QUESTION FOR YOU: Do you think Ed Gein killed his brother? Why or why not?REMINDER: Wearing another person's skin is questionable behavior.Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays!

Born on August 27, 1906 in LaCrosse, Wisconsin to parents George and Augusta Gein (who were both natives of Wisconsin); Edward Theodore Gein's gruesome and unbelievable crimes were the inspiration for many books and horror films. Known as the “Butcher of Plainfield” and “The Plainfield Ghoul”, Gein was known for skinning his victims, robbing graves to obtain body parts, and then crafting household and clothing items out of said body parts. Instead of hitting up the local hobby shop for supplies, Gein opted for a more “scavenger hunt” style of collecting necessary items via local graveyards. Shopping is overrated anyway. Why pay for something, if you can make it yourself…right? Not like the deceased needed their skin…or skulls anymore, right? Sure does seem like this was Gein's mindset. But I'm jumping ahead. So, let's go back to the beginning and see if we can determine what made him commit these heinous acts, before his death on July 26, 1984.------For this episode, I stuck to the dates and the facts that we knew about him/his criminal life. In part 2, We will delve more into the myths about Gein as well as our thoughts regarding Ed's crimes, behavior, and some additional facts about the trial itself.So, join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.comUntil next time; stay inside, stay alive.

This is Part 2 of the Andrei Chikatilo case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?This episode is one of our more heavily opinionated episodes thus far. But also; if you understand the difference between secretors and non-secretors - regarding DNA and blood type analysis; send us an email. We need help understanding this concept.--------In this episode, we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Join in on the conversation via Facebook and in the comments on Patreon!PROMO in this episode: https://shows.acast.com/worlds-dumbest-criminals

Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo - known by most as simply Andrei Chikatilo. Moniker? Rostov Ripper. But wait! There's more! Mr. Chikatilo has at least 7 other aliases. The Red Ripper. The Butcher of Rostov. The Forest Strip Killer. The Mad Beast. The Mistake of Nature. Killer X. And The Shelter Belt Killer.Andrei was born on October 16, 1936, In what is now known as Ukraine. He died on February 14, 1994 in Moscow, Russia at the age of 57.Little bit of an odd coincidence if you ask me. Being born on Sweetest Day and dying on Valentine's Day…but that may just be my brain and the fact that I have a thing with dates and numbers.Among his list of careers - Andrei had dipped his toes in many career field pools including being a telephone operator and a supply clerk. Andrei was also a former school teacher at one point. Now…he is known as a Soviet serial killer who murdered at least 50 people between 1978 and 1990. ------For this episode, I stuck to the dates and the facts that we knew about him/his criminal life. In part 2, I will go over more about the nature vs nurture aspects and much more.Also in part 2, you will hear Brittany's thoughts and reactions to this case as well.So, join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!PROMO: https://shows.acast.com/worlds-dumbest-criminals

This is Part 2 of the Herman Drenth case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?--------In this episode, we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Join in on the conversation via Facebook and in the comments on Patreon!Additionally, we announce the next categories and what we're bringing to NVN for the remainder of November!

Born on November 17, 1892, Herman Drenth had many names. Much like all of the Bluebeards we've covered thus far. Unlike the others, however, Herman had a different method to his madness. He told authorities that it gave him sexual excitement to hear his victims' screams from within the chamber, at night. He went a step farther than the other Bluebeards we've covered, in that he specifically built an area in his home, to torture his victims PRIOR to gaining their wealth and murdering them. Additionally, to make him a bit more sadistic, he didn't care who he had to kill to get the goods. He went as far as killing his love-interests' children as well. Which, we HAVE seen on at least one other occasion, but those were collateral damage, if you will. With Herman; it appeared as though this was just an extra level of excitement and pleasure.---For this episode, I stuck to the dates and the facts that we knew about him/his criminal life. In part 2, I will go over more about the nature vs nurture aspects, what we know about his school life, relationships growing up, careers, how he interacted with other humans as well as animals, MO, victim type, more about his “chamber”, suspected victim count, type of serial killer he was, execution style, and much more.Also in part 2, you will hear Brittany's thoughts and reactions to this case as well as what's coming up in the feed for our next category!So, join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.com

This is Part 2 of the Alfred Cline case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?--------In this episode, we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Join in on the conversation via Facebook and in the comments on Patreon!

Alfred Leonard Cline. AKA a “Fiendish Philanderer” and “The Buttermilk Bluebeard”. Born in 1889 and; Cline was a predator who married mostly widowed women of status, convinced them to will their possessions over to him, and then coerced them to drink a glass of poisoned buttermilk. But this wasn't your average glass of high-protein buttermilk that was easily digested as a natural treatment for gastrointestinal ailments. No siree, it was not. This was a staple of Alfred Cline's cocktails that he would prepare with a little extra UMPH. He would add powerful sedatives to the buttermilk for his lady of choice...who would then ingest it and die shortly thereafter. And although Cline was linked to the deaths of at least 8 eldery people, there was never enough evidence found to implicate him in foul play. But before really delving into WHO Alfred Cline was and where he came from; I want to first tell you about his criminal activity and who his victims were. Then I will go into a bit more detail with what we know about his upbringing, how he got away with his crimes for so long, and what ended up being his downfall.----------------------------Special thanks to Courtney of the Cult of Domesticity Podcast for her assistance with the research in this episode!Join us tomorrow for Part 2 - where Brittany (from Where the Weird Things Are Podcast and I will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Tune in and join the conversation on Facebook!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.com

This is Part 2 of the Albert Fish case. For this episode, I have Brittany joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?In this episode, we will do a deep dive (as deep as we can without throwing up) discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Join in on the conversation via Facebook and in the comments on Patreon!

Hamilton Howard Albert Fish was born on May 19, 1870 in Washington, D.C. to parents Randall and Ellen Fish. By the time Albert was 5 years old, in 1875, his elderly father Randall died of a heart attack at the Sixth Street Station of the Pennsylvania Railroad in Washington, D.C. It was after this that his mother decided to put him in Saint John's Orphanage. And this. This is when Albert started turning into the person we know him as. His mother was able to obtain a government job in 1880 and removed Albert from the Orphanage. Bringing him back home with her. So, although he was only in the orphanage for about 4 years...these were crucial formative years for his growth and development. Albert Fish is classified as an American sado-masochistic serial killer and cannibal. He was also known as the Gray Man, the Werewolf of Wysteria, and the Brooklyn Vampire. He bragged that he had “children in every state” which put his number at over 100. Now, whether he was referring to the number of murder victims, molestation victims, canabilization or all of the above, we are not sure. It could have been a lie all around. But what we do know is that he was a suspect in at least 5 murders throughout his lifetime. He ended up confessing to 3 of them, and then he confessed to stabbing 2 others. He ended up being put on trial for the murder of Grace Budd...for whom he was convicted and executed via the electric chair. This is Part 1 of the Albert Fish case. In this episode, you will hear about the life and crimes of Albert Fish. And why people are so fascinated with this disgusting case, but even more appalled by this evil monster. Brittany will be back in Part 2 - where we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more.-------------------Thank you so much to Justin Rimmel of the Mysterious Circumstances Podcast as well as Brittany and Thurlow of the Where the Weird Things Are Podcast for their assistance with the voiceovers in this episode! Special thanks to Courtney of the Cult of Domesticity Podcast for her assistance with the research in this episode!If you are interested in ad-free and extra episodes as well as merch and other swag; think about joining our Patreon at Patreon.com/NVNpodcast for as little as $1 per month!Check out our website for sources and more - at www.naturevsnarcissism.com

This is Part 2 of the Ward Weaver case. For this episode, I have Slim joining me to discuss our thoughts on the case as a whole as well as what we think is at play here. Was it nature? Nurture? A combination? Why?In this episode, we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more. Join in on the conversation via Facebook and in the comments on Patreon!

Born on April 6, 1963, Ward Francis Weaver III is now sitting in a prison cell; serving a life sentence for several egregious crimes against Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City, Oregon. In this episode, you will hear about the life and crimes of not only Weaver III, but his family members as well. This is Part 1 of the Ward Weaver case. Ward Weaver IIIs son, was arrested and charged with the murder of a drug dealer in Canby, Oregon on February 17, 2014. He and three others had allegedly robbed and killed the drug dealer on February 16, 2014 - so, luckily they captured him pretty quickly. He was found guilty and given a life sentence. With his grandfather sitting on California's death row, and his father serving 2 life sentences, this makes him the third generation of Weavers to be convicted as murderers.This was a requested case by Slim - who you will hear from in Part 2 - where we will do a deep dive discussion about the case, the people involved, our thoughts regarding nature vs nurture, and much more.

Welcome back to nature vs Narcissism! I know the show has been on hiatus for some time and our listeners haven't really been told too much. That is all about to change! For the last 2 years, the show has been on again/off again for a number of reasons. At the end of 2019, I became pretty sick for about 3 weeks - and that was on top of several family members passing away (for various reasons - old age, etc.).Then 2020 came and the whole world changed. COVID-19 hit and life as we knew it was different and complicated. We faced lockdowns, mask mandates, sick family members and friends, loved ones dying from a pandemic that we didn't know how to combat.Everyone was scared. Everyone felt alone. Many were alone. And many more were out of work, struggling to make ends meet and feed their families. Not to mention the mental toll that the pandemic took on all of us - those with mental health issues as well as those who had never experienced any mental health concern.Fast forward a bit and businesses start opening, vaccines are being produced and distributed, people start traveling, and life appears to be back to “normal”. But it wasn't. It still isn't. And for me, personally; life became more difficult to navigate. Tons of extra anxiety. Poor communication with friends and loved ones. Then back to work. Thinking it would be easy - take it day by day, and everything will fall back into place. But it didn't. It still hasn't. But I am slowly and surely learning how to get back into the swing of things EVEN when the “swing of things” takes me out.I guess what I am trying to say is: life has a way of taking its toll on a person and that's exactly what happened!But as I said. Things are changing. I have taken some time to rethink and regroup. I did not want to completely get rid of NVN as it is my baby. And when I was recording all the time, the way that I wanted to, covering the cases that intrigued me; I had a blast. I loved interacting with listeners and making friends along the way. So, that's what I want again!Thanks to Brittany; I am back in the groove and we are going to relaunch NVN on it's 4th birthday - October 22, 2021!

Have you ever wondered who is considered the Ted Bundy of another country? What about the female serial killers of the world? Or the necrophiles of the world?If you're anything like Heather & Brittany, then you're fascinated with the minds of criminals! That thing that makes them tick. Why do they commit such egregious crimes? Why are they so different than us?Is it Nature? Nurture? Or plain 'ol Narcissism?Each week; Heather and Brittany will discuss a topic related to true crime and the psychology of killers. Then they'll break down a case or killer in a 2-parter.Part 1 will be the case details and overview of the facts of the case and/or killer. And Part 2 will be the discussion about the case and/or killer.We're NOT PROFESSIONALS, but we sure do like to give our opinions and share our perspectives on the cases and criminals.So, if you're interested in that kind of thing, then join us on Fridays and Saturdays for the 2-parters and join us on Facebook and/or Patreon for the conversation!

In episode 4 of Season 5; we are headed to Denver, Colorado to discuss the murder of 5-year-old Sophia and 7-year-old Noah, by their own brother, 20-year-old Malik Murphy.For years, Malik’s mother and father attempted to get him the mental health help that he needed. His mother KNEW that he was dangerous and someone/anyone needed to help him. However, once he turned 18 – a legal adult – she was no longer permitted to be in charge of nor a part of his mental healthcare needs.That, his mother and father say, was where the state failed their family. Now, they’ve lost all three of their children.--------Promo in this episode is for “Voices for Justice” Podcast – hosted by Sarah Turney. Check out Sarah’s podcast here: Voices for Justice PodcastFind your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more! https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735 Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 3 of Season 5; we are headed to St. Petersburg, Florida to discuss the murder of 40-year-old Debbie Burns, by her own sister and caretaker, 53-year-old Barbara Burns. This happened on the evening the two celebrated Debbie’s 40th birthday, after they had an argument about finances. Barbara lived with Debbie’s deceased body for over a month and then left the state…abandoning her sister and starting a new life.Barbara was described by an investigator on the case as “the nicest murderer I’ve [he’s] ever met”. She was given the nickname Gangsta Granny in prison and said she thought that was cute since she had never been given a nickname before.Promo in this episode is for “Mugshot” Podcast – hosted by Lindsay. Check out Lindsay’s podcast here: Mugshot Podcast Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more! https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735 Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things: PO Box 498396 Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 2 of Season 5; we are headed to White Springs, Florida to discuss the murder of 16-year-old Damien Kornegay by his own 15-year-old sister; Ariel. Within this home; there were 4 children and two parents. The parents would often abuse the children – most notably, the 15-year-old, Misty “Ariel” Kornegay. The parents would often lock Ariel up, beat her, not allow her to eat, etc. While the parents were out – they left the 16-year-old (Damien) in charge of his three younger siblings (Ariel – 15, Nicole – 11, and the toddler). What happened that day is something you see in the movies, but it actually occurred in real life in 2015. Promo in this episode is for Courtney’s podcast “The Cult of Domesticity”. Check out Courtney’s podcast here: The Cult of Domesticity Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 1 of Season 5; we are headed to Dublin Ireland to discuss the murder duo known as the Scissor Sisters; Linda and Charlotte Mulhall. In March of 2005 – the sisters killed, dismembered, and disposed of their mother’s lover; Farah Swaleh Noor. But why? What would make two adult sisters kill their mother’s boyfriend in such a brutal manner? Join us as we dissect the case and learn all about the background of these individuals.Promo in this episode is for Sammi’s new podcast “It’s Frightful”. Check out Samii’s podcast here: It's Frightful Podcast Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In this Listener Request episode, Heather is joined by a returning guest, friend, and podcaster; Amy Derrick. Amy has a podcast called 10-96 Crime Chicks and is embarking on a new podcast that will explore paranormal AND crime! Two of Heather’s favorite things; for sure!So, this listener request episode has been a long time coming and was requested by Amy, herself. So, today, we will be discussing Joseph Douglass Ball – aka The Alligator Man. This is an older case – which is a pretty interesting aspect as there wasn’t a lot of coverage at the time. He was classified as a serial killer who was active between 1936 and his suicide in 1938. He is said to have between 5 and 14-20 victims.But, did he? You tell us…Check out Amy’s current podcast here: 10-96 Crime ChicksOnce her new podcast launches; we will be sure to share that as well!PROMO in this episode: Corpus Delicti PodcastFind your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more! https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

Season 5 drops on March 3, 2021! What is the theme this time???Check out our new Merch store while you're waiting: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209

In this Listener Request episode, Heather is joined by a returning guest, friend, and podcaster; Brian Olson. Our listener request episode has been a long time coming and has been requested by more people than I can recall. I’ve been pretty hesitant to cover it, in all honesty; because I know of several other podcasters who are in the middle of covering it right now. I just know that they’re going to do such a phenomenal job and my coverage wouldn’t compare unless I devoted 20-25 episodes to it.So, today, we will be discussing Samuel Little. The FBI has described him as the most prolific serial killer. Instead of digging into everything; we’re going to give a general timeline and discuss certain aspects of the case along the way. So, this episode will be more conversational. Check out Brian’s podcast here: The Rabbit Hole Wanderer Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastWE HAVE A NEW MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/swagmetc/albums/105579-nvn?ref_id=22209Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In Part 2 of this listener request episode, Heather is joined AGAIN by BRITTANY (newest Patron of the show)!!! Thank you so much Brittany!Today, we will continue the conversation regarding Terry Thompson and his zoo that once stood at his home in Zanesville, Ohio. In this episode, we go over the timeline of the day of the escape, the following days, and even the months that followed - as well as the law changes that came of this event.Additionally, we learn what happens with the animals that were NOT killed in this tragic event as well as what Mrs. Thompson did after losing her husband and animals. This case is so much larger than what we covered on these 2 episodes AND the Patreon-only episode. So, definitely look into this case for yourself if you want ALL of the details. But, brace yourself...it's a hard one to look up.

In Part 1 of this listener request episode, Heather is joined by BRITTANY (newest Patron of the show)!!! Thank you so much Brittany! Today, we will be discussing something much like Tiger King, in the sense that we have our very own Joe Exotic, here in Ohio...well, we HAD our very own Joe Exotic. We are going to discuss Terry Thompson and his zoo that once stood at his home in Zanesville, Ohio.This case; is cuckoo bananas...and there was a lot in the background that I had no idea happened/existed. Since there was so much to this case, there is a Part 2 that you will get sometime very soon!

In this very special episode; Heather is joined by yet another author! This time, the author is Charlotte Bismuth who is a former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney and she describes her new book: Bad Medicine: Catching New York’s Deadliest Pill Pusher – which hits shelves everywhere, on January 19, 2021From 2010 to 2014, Bismuth and her team followed a trail of bodies and money to Dr. Stan Li, who was selling prescriptions for controlled substances out of a basement clinic in Flushing, Queens. The case against Dr. Li was unusual. He was particularly callous and displayed ruthless greed in profiting from the opioid epidemic, handing out numbered tickets to the opioid-addicted patients who traveled far to buy his prescriptions.BAD MEDICINE tells the story of the opioid epidemic through the investigation and trial of one doctor, who embodied the callousness and greed of the pharmaceutical companies. It is a call for justice that is particularly relevant as the number of opioid deaths continues to grow. Beth Macy, Congressman Patrick J. Kennedy, Gerald Posner, Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, Patricia McCormick, Nan Goldin, Karen Abbott and others have praised the book: “It will leave you fuming … at the complicity of American regulators and politicians, and the Big Pharma machine that lines their pockets;” “The story will leave readers angry, informed, and most importantly inspired to seek justice and change;” “A gripping read tailor-made for the silver screen.” GET YOUR COPY HERE:Indie Bound: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781982116422 Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Medicine-Catching-Deadliest-Pusher/dp/1982116420/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1580312889&refinements=p_27%3ACharlotte%20Bismuth&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Charlotte%20Bismuth Barnes & Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bad-medicine-charlotte-bismuth/1136270430?ean=9781982116422#/ Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/books/bad-medicine-catching-new-york-s-deadliest-pill-pusher/9781982116422 FedUp Coalition FedUp – coalition of organizations from across the country, founded by parents who have lost their children to overdoses.Find Charlotte:https://www.charlottebismuth.com Twitter: @CEBismuthInstagram: @_charlotte_b_

This is part 2 of our Listener Request episode on the murder of Hailey Dunn. In part 1; we discussed who Hailey was and the timeline of events in this case. In part 2; we will delve into the rumors and details that have come out since her death, things that occurred after she went missing (prior to the discovery of her remains), and what is being done today.For those who don’t know...like myself before researching this case...Hailey Dunn was reported missing from her Colorado, Texas home on December 28, 2010. Her remains were found just 30 miles away from her home...but not until March of 2013! So, 2 years and 3 months later? But yet, relatively close to her home...it’s so tragic...As of today, Hailey's case still remains unsolved. There is a $15000 reward in place for anyone with information that leads to the arrest of Hailey's killer(s). If you have any information that could help the investigation, please go to the link below to submit an anonymous tip.https://www.dps.texas.gov/coldCase/Tips Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In this Listener Request episode, Heather is joined by a returning guest, Brittany F! And for those of you who are devoted listeners; you’ve already “met Brittany” in one of our Season 2 episodes...where we discussed Christine Falling. That was a 2-parter and was posted February 13, 2020. Christine was a babysitter in Lakeland, Florida who was 17 years old when she started murdering those she was tasked with babysitting. Super cuckoo bananas and very sad case, for sure.Today though, we will be discussing the murder of Hailey Dunn. This is a case that was requested to us by a Patreon supporter; Sal. I know it took a really long time to get to this case but we’re here now!!This case; much like all the other unsolved cases, is really heartbreaking. Heartbreaking for the victim and heartbreaking for the family. They just want answers and they’re still waiting even after over a decade.I think that one of the most disturbing things about this case may be the fact that she was just 13 years old.For those who don’t know...like myself before researching this case...Hailey Dunn was reported missing from her Colorado, Texas home on December 28, 2010. Her remains were found just 30 miles away from her home...but not until March of 2013! So, 2 years and 3 months later? But yet, relatively close to her home...it’s so tragic...As a quick note: the Sheriff that we were discussing (as a sidebar in this episode) is Sheriff Joe Arpaio aka America’s Toughest Sheriff…Tent City.As of today, Hailey's case still remains unsolved. There is a $15000 reward in place for anyone with information that leads to the arrest of Hailey's killer(s). If you have any information that could help the investigation, please go to the link below to submit an anonymous tip.https://www.dps.texas.gov/coldCase/Tips Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

GOOD RIDDANCE, 2020!I know that this year has been a bit of a roller coaster with the pandemic and everything else that 2020 offered us.So, we thought we could give y’all a laugh with our BLOOPERS from Season 4. Throughout this episode, beginning with Season 4: Episode 1 & ending with Season 4: Episode 10 (and some Patreon outtakestoo); you will hear everything from our technical difficulties, to our mispronunciations (HEATHER!), to our before/during/after episode shenanigans, to the ever-present struggle to get the pod puppers out of the studio, as well as our corrections along the way. We just wanted to give you a lighthearted FUNsode to kick off the new year!Thank you to everyone who has supported us along the way and continue to put up with our shit; we love you!Stick with us! 2021 is going to be a fun year!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!Here's a bonus episode for ya! All about execution methods! We thought it was pretty fitting, given the Season 4 theme.Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 10 of Season 4; OUR SEASON FINALE, Heather discusses the infamous murder duo Alton Coleman and Debra Brown. Coleman and Brown entered into a master-slave relationship with one another and took to the road where they traveled across multiple states, murdering several individuals; including children. On July 17, 1984; Alton Coleman became the 388th fugitive on FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List. Finally, the authorities catch up to and apprehend Alton and Debra on July 20, 1984 in Evanston, Illinois. However, the damage had already been done. This was after 8 murders, 7 rapes, 3 kidnappings, and 14 armed robberies. More than 50 law enforcement officials from Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio met to strategize how the two would be charged for their heinous acts across all 6 states. Since the officials all agreed that they wanted BOTH defendants to face the death penalty, it didn’t take long for them to decide to give Ohio first dibs at prosecuting them. The state of Ohio convicted Coleman and Brown, finding them guilty of the rape and murder of Tonnie Storey in Cincinnati and Marlene Walters in Norwood, but not for the murder of Virginia Temple and Rachelle Temple in Toledo. Coleman and Brown were both sentenced to death and the appeals process began. Coleman's case was sent to the U.S. Supreme Court several times between 1985 and 2002, but his numerous arguments that his conviction and death sentence were unconstitutional failed to sway the justices.Alton Coleman was executed via lethal injection at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville, Ohio on April 26, 2002, reciting Psalm 23 from the Bible. His last meal was…well, HUGE.As for Debra Brown…she has not had her last meal. In fact, she will not have a last meal – in the traditional death row way. Her sentence was commuted to life in prison due to mitigating circumstances and her low IQ scores. Brown is serving her sentence without possibility of parole at the Dayton Correctional Institution in Dayton, Ohio. Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 9 of Season 4; Rachelle discusses the 1981 murder of Arthur Criswell and Officer Robert Martin. Officer Robert Martin was a family friend whom Ricky had known since he was a very young child. Rachelle also discusses the man responsible for their deaths – 31-year-old Ricky Ray Rector. The twist in this case is that when Ricky shot Officer Robert Martin (after turning himself in for Arthur Criswell’s murder), he then turned the gun on himself…shooting himself in the head; which in turn caused brain damage. The issues and questions that this case brings to the table are overwhelming. The way this case unfolds is quite interesting, but also pretty disturbing, to us. But, we’ll let you formulate your own opinion. Ricky Ray Rector was sentenced to death for his actions. He was executed by lethal injection by the state of Arkansas on January 24, 1992.And what does President Bill Clinton have to do with this case? You’ll see… Last meal? Maybe later…Promo: 
Homepage: inebriatedinput.com
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Instagram:  @InebriatedInput (link)Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 8 of Season 4; Heather discusses the 1983 senseless murder of 44-year-old Larry Don Rohus as well as the man who was responsible for and convicted of this horrible crime – 30-year-old James Edward Smith. Smith was a Hare Krishna follower and labeled himself as a VooDoo/VoDou Priest. This plays a role in some of the confessions that he made as well as his last meal request (super interesting). James Edward Smith was executed by lethal injection in Texas on June 26, 1990.Last meal?? Um. You'll see...Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 7 of Season 4; Rachelle discusses the 1998 atrocious and senseless murder of 49-year-old James Byrd, Jr. as well as the men who were responsible for and convicted of this horrible crime – 31-year-old white supremacist Lawrence Russell Brewer, Shawn Berry, and John King. For this episode though – we are focusing on the ringleader, Lawrence Russell Brewer. We know that this episode is a bit shorter than last week, but we think that is a good thing. It was really hard to stomach this case but Rachelle brought it to the table because it is definitely one that needs to be discussed. The actions of Lawrence and his cohorts were unacceptable and should not and will not be tolerated; as you will see in this episode. Lawrence Russell Brewer was sentenced to death on September 23, 1999 and executed by lethal injection in Texas on September 21, 2011. Last meal?? Ugh. Don’t get us started.Sponsor: BeenVerified
https://checkbv.com/nature - with this link; receive 15% off.Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 6 of Season 4; Heather discusses the 1978 murders of two 16-year-old boys; John Mayeski and Michael Baker…as well as the man who was convicted and executed for their murders - 25-year-old Robert Alton Harris. We think that one of the most disturbing elements of this case is the fact that Harris had no regard for human life and had killed someone just a few years prior to this as well. Harris attempted every way possible, to not be put to death; he was the hero (according to his testimony) after all. However, after much back-and-forth, on April 21, 1992, after roughly 14 years behind bars; Harris was sent to the gas chamber and executed for his crimes. He was the first execution in California in 25 years. How about that last meal?? Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

We are back for another listener request episode! And for those of you who are devoted listeners; you’ve already “met Lily” in our interview episode! Definitely check that episode out - and there will be links in the show notes to find her book - Teen Killers Club. Today though, we will be discussing a case that Lily finds pretty interesting. And honestly, I do as well. I think there are several super disturbing aspects to this case. So, before really delving into the case details...for those who aren’t familiar with the case - here’s a quick summary. This happened in Waukesha, Wisconsin on May 31, 2014. There were three 12-year-old girls who were friends...who were hanging out when two of the girls lured the third girl into the woods, where they stabbed her, 19 times!! This was in an effort to “prove that the fictional character - Slenderman - was real” according to the girls. It was reported that they wanted to become proxies of Slenderman; per the girls. The victim...12-year-old Payton Leutner SURVIVED the attack! She was able to crawl out of the woods, to a nearby road; where a passerby on a bicycle found her. She spent several days in the hospital, recovering from her stab wounds.I thought it was really cool that Lily wanted to add something to the side to spice up this episode! She knew that we were talking about last meals in Season 4...so although neither perpetrator was executed; she has an interesting dish for us...The new music featured in this episode is by one of Heather's high school friends, Andrew aka andre_the_g on BandLab! He creates and mixes his own tracks and they're pretty awesome! You should really check him out on Bandlab:@andre_the_g on BandLab (https://www.bandlab.com/andre_the_g/chill-a68ccc1f?revId=fa03673b-ce04-eb11-96f5-501ac5b31de6) TEEN KILLERS CLUB WILL BE AVAILABLE ON NOVEMBER 10, 2020!Get your copy here:Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1643852299 Website: http://www.sparkslily.com Direct link to indiebound (a way to find the book at an independent retailer): https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781643852294 Follow Lily on Twitter:@lilyroro Sponsor: BeenVerifiedhttps://checkbv.com/nature - with this link; receive 15% off.Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 5 of Season 4; Rachelle discusses the 1984 murder and mutilation of 28-year-old George Grant Crooks as well as the man who was convicted AND executed for it; Robert Dale Conklin. This case is pretty messed up (which is really no different than any other case on the show)…so, take this as your warning. Have you heard of Joel Guy? Well; think about that but a bit more in depth. Conklin tried to claim self-defense as well as pointing to the death of Crooks as an accident. However, the jury saw right through that, and on July 12, 2005, after 21 years behind bars; Conklin was executed for his crimes.Was there pre-meditation? How did Conklin act after the death of Crooks? What if the death of Crooks was an accident? And what about that last meal??Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In this very special episode; Heather is joined by yet another author! This time, the author is Lily Sparks and she describes her new book: Teen Killers Club – which hits shelves everywhere, on November 10, 2020!In Lily’s own words: “Teen Killers Club, (Crooked Lane/Penguin Random House) is really is built on the theme Nature vs. Narcissism: it's set in a world where convicted killers have their internet activity run through an algorithm and then are classed from A-F based on criminal potential, Class A being the most deadly. The Class A's who are under 18 are then whisked off to an abandoned summer camp to train as assassins. But our main character, a misfit goth, was framed for the murder of her best friend and is actually innocent. (It’s based on the how the Hare Psychopathy checklist is currently used to determine eligibility for parole or the death penalty in many prisons currently.) So, the book really is centered around this question of, is evil innate or learned and at what point can the tide be turned in someone who is headed down the wrong path.”So, obviously; Heather HAD to interview her…there was no question about it!Some of her reviewers are just as stoked! Here’s what they’re saying:“a wicked sense of humor” –Margot Harrison (author of The Glare)“…sick, twisted, fast-paced fun” –Kendare Blake (NYT bestselling author of Three Dark Crowns)“highly addictive and uncomfortably heartfelt” –Joelle Charbonneau (NYT bestselling author of The Testing)TEEN KILLERS CLUB WILL BE AVAILABLE ON NOVEMBER 10, 2020!Get your copy here:Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1643852299Website: http://www.sparkslily.comDirect link to indiebound (a way to find the book at an independent retailer): https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781643852294Follow Lily on Twitter: @lilyroroMusic at the beginning and end of this episode was from Andre The G. Check him out on Bandlab:andre_the_g on BandLabSponsor: BeenVerified https://checkbv.com/nature  - with this link; receive 15% off. Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcast Call/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.comSend us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249

In episode 4 of Season 4; Heather discusses the 1981 manslaughter of Dedra Pettus and the 1989 murder of Gloria Jean Leathers - as well as the woman who was convicted AND executed for one of their deaths; Wanda Jean Allen.  This case has plenty of mitigating factors and in today’s society; I don’t think that it would have turned out the way that it did.  However, on January 11, 2001, the courts didn’t see it that way and Allen – after 12 years on death row; was executed by the State of Oklahoma. There were two dozen family members of Dedra and Gloria, who were in attendance at her execution. But Wanda seemed to be playing games…or at least appeared to be acting “childish” to some who witnessed the execution. Her last meal? Well, I don’t know that I would call that a meal. Sponsor: BeenVerified https://checkbv.com/nature  - with this link; receive 15% off.Find your favorite platform, buy merch, find sources, and more!https://linktr.ee/nvnpodcastCall/text us: 1-513-549-5735Email us: naturevsnarcissism@gmail.com Send us things:PO Box 498396Cincinnati, Ohio 45249