Real Estate Investing Podcast

In this episode Aaron and Richard dive into the lucrative world of short-term rentals, focusing on popular platforms like Airbnb and VRBO. As more people explore the benefits of renting out furnished homes for short-term stays, Aaron and Richard discuss current trends, challenges, and strategies for success. Whether you're an investor looking to maximize profits or just curious about the short-term rental market, this episode offers valuable insights and practical tips to help you navigate and thrive in this dynamic sector. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/maximize-profits-airbnb-short-term-midterm-rentals-tips/

The real estate market is undergoing significant transformations, particularly in property management. This episode dives into the evolving landscape of property management in Memphis and across the United States. We explore how large national corporations are influencing local property management companies, the impact of recent acquisitions, and what the future holds for enterprise property management and smaller family-owned businesses in the Memphis area. By examining these trends, we aim to provide valuable insights for investors, property owners, and tenants alike, highlighting the benefits and challenges posed by these changes. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/the-changing-landscape-of-property-management/

Exploring Memphis' diverse neighborhoods offers significant opportunities for real estate investment. In this episode, we delve into the communities that have provided the greatest return and satisfaction to investors. As the logistics capital of the United States, Memphis attracts major corporations, boosting the local economy and housing market. Discover how areas like North Memphis, Raleigh, and Hickory Hill offer unique advantages for property investors. From affordable housing to high rental yields, we guide you through the best neighborhoods for maximizing your real estate investments. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/best-memphis-neighborhoods-for-real-estate-investment-revealed/

In this episode of Behind the Curtain Real Estate Podcast, we conclude our three-part series on property management by focusing on exiting property management. Aaron Ivey, with over 20 years of experience, discusses why investors might decide to exit property management and explores various exit strategies. Whether due to personal reasons, financial shifts, or changes in investment goals, understanding the best practices for transitioning out of property management is crucial. Sponsored by Memphis Real Estate Advisors, this episode provides valuable insights for real estate investors considering their next move. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/exiting-property-management-strategies-best-practices/

Inside Secrets to Successful Property Management Onboarding: Discover why locally owned property management companies outshine corporate entities in building trust and delivering personalized service. Learn the essential questions to ask potential managers and understand the significance of their market experience. What are the essential steps and strategies for a successful transition to a new property management company? With 24 years of experience, Aaron Ivey shares valuable insights on how to make your property management company shine, what to expect during onboarding, and how to build trust with your new property manager. He discusses navigating the complexities of legal compliance and existing leases with expert advice to the importance of transparency, continuous support, and the value of referrals in forging long-term relationships. Plus, get practical onboarding steps to ensure a seamless handover. Tune in for a deep dive into optimizing your property management journey! More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/inside-secrets-to-successful-property-management-onboarding/

Onboarding Property Management: Questions & Tips for Investors. Today we lift the lid on property management, discovering what you should be asking when you interview a new property manager, and the essential strategies for effective rental property management. We discuss the nuances of local property management vs national or corporate, and we share what makes a property management company stand out. Whether you're a new investor or looking to refine your portfolio, this episode provides valuable advice on managing real estate investments efficiently. Tune in to learn how to enhance your property management approach and maximize your real estate investment returns. Check out episode notes at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/onboarding-property-management-questions-tips-for-investors/

Trustmark Bank's Top Loan Originator, Ray Rosas, a seasoned mortgage loan originator, joins us to explain complex mortgage processes and offers strategic advice for both novice and veteran investors. With over four decades of experience, Ray offers invaluable advice on navigating a multitude of mortgage scenarios, from HELOCs, conventional loans, to investment properties. This episode is packed with strategies for both first-time buyers and seasoned investors to guide you through the intricacies of mortgage planning and execution. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/real-estate-advice-trustmarks-top-loan-originator/

Investing for Retirement: Real estate investment strategies, turnkey solutions, & the advantages of new construction in Memphis. Adam Schroeder from Rent2Retirement unveils the secrets to successful real estate investing. He emphasizes the benefits of turnkey properties and explores the potential of new construction in thriving markets, particularly Memphis. With a focus on providing investors with hassle-free, high-return opportunities, Schroeder shares insights on market dynamics, the significance of proper management, and strategies to maximize ROI. He offers valuable tips for both novice and seasoned investors but also highlights Rent2Retirement's innovative approach to building wealth through real estate. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/turnkey-properties-rent2retirement-com-investing-for-retirement/

In our latest episode, "Who Pays the Realtor in 2024? Shifting Real Estate Commissions", we examine the DOJ's latest guidelines revolutionizing Realtor compensation. Previously, sellers were typically responsible for the buyer's Realtor fees, but now, buyers must negotiate these costs directly. This pivotal change aims to clarify and modernize the financial dynamics of buying property. We also explore how technological advancements, like Zillow, support self-representation, though caution remains essential to avoid potential pitfalls. As the real estate industry awaits standardized contracts from authoritative bodies, we discuss what these changes mean for buyers, sellers, and Realtors alike. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/who-pays-the-realtor-in-2024-shifting-real-estate-commissions/

In "Boom or Bubble? Navigating Today's Real Estate Market," we unravel the dynamics of Memphis' real estate, from enduring sales prices to the evolving rental market predictions. Aaron Ivey offers a deep dive into the local and broader market trends, positioning Memphis as a prime locale for investors hunting for value-add opportunities. Whether your interest lies in Memphis or similar areas, gain strategic insights for steering through the potential real estate boom—or impending bubble—with confidence. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/boom-or-bubble-navigating-todays-real-estate-market/

Game-Changer Loans: Creative Cash Real Estate Investing for Less - In this engaging episode, Devin Peterson, a seasoned loan officer, unveils groundbreaking strategies for entering the real estate market with minimal initial investment. Specializing in creative financing, Devin offers a lifeline to investors hindered by traditional financial barriers, emphasizing non-QM loans and asset-based lending. His approach not only simplifies the path to property investment but also opens doors to rapid portfolio expansion. Whether you're a newcomer or looking to scale, Devin's insights can dramatically alter your investment trajectory, making the dream of real estate ownership a tangible reality for many. Today's guest is Devin Peterson. Devin can be reached by call or text at https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/ Check out episode notes at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/game-changer-loans-creative-cash-real-estate-investing-for-less/

Game-Changer Loans: Creative Cash Real Estate Investing for Less - In this engaging episode, Devin Peterson, a seasoned loan officer, unveils groundbreaking strategies for entering the real estate market with minimal initial investment. Specializing in creative financing, Devin offers a lifeline to investors hindered by traditional financial barriers, emphasizing non-QM loans and asset-based lending. His approach not only simplifies the path to property investment but also opens doors to rapid portfolio expansion. Whether you're a newcomer or looking to scale, Devin's insights can dramatically alter your investment trajectory, making the dream of real estate ownership a tangible reality for many. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/game-changer-loans-creative-cash-real-estate-investing-for-less/

True Cost of Tenant Turnover Exposed: We discuss the often overlooked benefits of tenant retention vs tenant turnover, revelaing the hidden costs and risks associated with finding new tenants and why keeping existing tenants is a financially smarter strategy. With advice drawn from over two decades of real estate experience, this discussion reveals practical strategies for minimizing vacancies and optimizing profits. Whether you're a new investor or an experienced property manager, this episode offers essential tips and insights for enhancing your real estate portfolio's performance through effective tenant retention techniques.More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/true-cost-of-tenant-turnover-exposed/

True Cost of Tenant Turnover Exposed We discuss the often overlooked benefits of tenant retention vs tenant turnover, revelaing the hidden costs and risks associated with finding new tenants and why keeping existing tenants is a financially smarter strategy. With advice drawn from over two decades of real estate experience, this discussion reveals practical strategies for minimizing vacancies and optimizing profits. Whether you're a new investor or an experienced property manager, this episode offers essential tips and insights for enhancing your real estate portfolio's performance through effective tenant retention techniques. Episode notes are available at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/true-cost-of-tenant-turnover-exposed/ Check out our sponsor, Memphis Real Estate Advisors: https://memphisreadvisors.com or call at 901-671-1015.

Forecasting Real Estate: Navigating 2024 and the Next 5 Years. Join Aaron & Richard as they discuss the evolving landscape of real estate. Together they unravel trends, economic influences, and future predictions. They offer invaluable insights for investors navigating the market's next five years. From the post-crash investment boom to regional market disparities and inflation's role, learn what makes real estate a perennial opportunity. Whether you're a first-time buyer or a seasoned investor diversifying your portfolio, this discussion highlights key strategies, potential pitfalls, and the importance of professional guidance in maximizing your real estate investment returns. Episode notes are available at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/forecasting-real-estate-navigating-2024-and-the-next-5-years/ Check out our sponsor, Memphis Real Estate Advisors: https://memphisreadvisors.com or call at 901-671-1015.

Forecasting Real Estate: Navigating 2024 and the Next 5 Years. Join Aaron & Richard as they discuss the evolving landscape of real estate. Together they unravel trends, economic influences, and future predictions. They offer invaluable insights for investors navigating the market's next five years. From the post-crash investment boom to regional market disparities and inflation's role, learn what makes real estate a perennial opportunity. Whether you're a first-time buyer or a seasoned investor diversifying your portfolio, this discussion highlights key strategies, potential pitfalls, and the importance of professional guidance in maximizing your real estate investment returns. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/forecasting-real-estate-navigating-2024-and-the-next-5-years/

Tax-Savvy Investing - How CPAs Elevate Your Real Estate Game: Aaron Ivey delves into the indispensable role of Certified Public Accountants (CPAs) in real estate investment. Guest Cameron Spivey, a seasoned CPA and tax puzzle enthusiast, shares his journey from academic to tax expert, emphasizing the creative and personalized approach he brings to tax planning. Spivey's insights reveal how CPAs not only navigate the complexities of tax law but also empower investors with strategic decision-making tools. Through Spivey's expertise, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of how effective tax planning and CPA collaboration can significantly enhance their real estate investment success. Episode notes are available at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/tax-savvy-investing-how-cpas-elevate-your-real-estate-game/ Check out our sponsor, Memphis Real Estate Advisors: https://memphisreadvisors.com or call at 901-671-1015.

Tax-Savvy Investing - How CPAs Elevate Your Real Estate Game: Aaron Ivey delves into the indispensable role of Certified Public Accountants (CPAs) in real estate investment. Guest Cameron Spivey, a seasoned CPA and tax puzzle enthusiast, shares his journey from academic to tax expert, emphasizing the creative and personalized approach he brings to tax planning. Spivey's insights reveal how CPAs not only navigate the complexities of tax law but also empower investors with strategic decision-making tools. Through Spivey's expertise, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of how effective tax planning and CPA collaboration can significantly enhance their real estate investment success. More about this episode: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/tax-savvy-investing-how-cpas-elevate-your-real-estate-game/

Insider Tips: Navigating Insurance for Real Estate Success Discover the nuances of real estate insurance with Trey, a seasoned State Farm agent. From navigating replacement costs to the importance of deductibles, Trey shares valuable insights for investors. Learn about policy endorsements and the impact of endorsements on premiums. Trey emphasizes the importance of regular policy reviews to ensure proper coverage. Gain actionable advice on managing risks, choosing coverage wisely, and navigating claims efficiently. Elevate your real estate journey with Trey's expertise—your key to securing successful and worry-free property investments. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management, Inc. and its real estate services by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/insider-tips-navigating-insurance-for-real-estate-success/

Insider Tips: Navigating Insurance for Real Estate Success. Discover the nuances of real estate insurance with Trey, a seasoned State Farm agent. From navigating replacement costs to the importance of deductibles, Trey shares valuable insights for investors. Learn about policy endorsements and the impact of endorsements on premiums. Trey emphasizes the importance of regular policy reviews to ensure proper coverage. Gain actionable advice on managing risks, choosing coverage wisely, and navigating claims efficiently. Elevate your real estate journey with Trey's expertise—your key to securing successful and worry-free property investments. More about this episode:https://mymemphisinvestmentproperties.com/podcast/insider-tips-navigating-insurance-for-real-estate-success/

Rental Property Buying Guide for Beginner Real Estate Investors - Part 2 Boost Your ROI: Expert Tips for Effective Property Investment In this final part to our investment rental property buying guide, we explore the intricate realm of property management with seasoned Realtor and Property Manager Aaron Ivey. In this enlightening episode, Aaron delves into the critical decision of hiring professional property managers versus self-management. He offers invaluable insights while discussing the significance of a property manager's role, how to initiate the relationship, and the top questions to ask when interviewing a new property managemer. From property evaluation strategies to tenant screening processes, he unveils the key elements that lead to successful real estate investments. Gain a wealth of knowledge and elevate your property investment game. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management, Inc. and its real estate services by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/rental-property-buying-guide-for-beginner-real-estate-investors-part-3/

In this final part to our investment rental property buying guide, we explore the intricate realm of property management with seasoned Realtor and Property Manager Aaron Ivey. In this enlightening episode, Aaron delves into the critical decision of hiring professional property managers versus self-management. He offers invaluable insights while discussing the significance of a property manager's role, how to initiate the relationship, and the top questions to ask when interviewing a new property managemer. From property evaluation strategies to tenant screening processes, he unveils the key elements that lead to successful real estate investments. Gain a wealth of knowledge and elevate your property investment game.

Rental Property Buying Guide for Beginner Real Estate Investors - Part 2 This is the second in a three-part series where we discuss the process of planning for and buying rental property. Today we explore real estate investment strategies, focusing on buying properties requiring improvement for increased value. We cover negotiation tips, the role of Realtors, and the crucial significance of home inspections. We will also discuss the necessity of insurance, leveraging equity, and provide diverse examples of exit strategies. Emphasizing regular evaluations, our discussion outlines options such as the 1031 exchange and family trusts for long-term planning in real estate, urging careful consideration and planning for the future. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management, Inc. and its real estate services by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/rental-property-buying-guide-for-beginner-real-estate-investors-part-2/

In part 2 of our investment rental property buying guide, we explore real estate investment strategies, focusing on buying properties requiring improvement for increased value. We cover negotiation tips, the role of Realtors, and the crucial significance of home inspections. We will also discuss the necessity of insurance, leveraging equity, and provide diverse examples of exit strategies. Emphasizing regular evaluations, our discussion outlines options such as the 1031 exchange and family trusts for long-term planning in real estate, urging careful consideration and planning for the future.

Rental Property Buying Guide for Beginner Real Estate Investors - Part 1 This is the first in a three-part series where we discuss the process of planning for and buying rental property. We discuss the importance of experienced realtors, networking, and careful financial planning and we'll cover topics such as property selection, financing, and understanding market dynamics, particularly here in Memphis. Hear our insights on budgeting, property conditions, and securing financing. This episode is the 1st of 3 in our comprehensive guide to buying rental property. It is for both novice and experienced real estate investors, offering valuable advice on successful property acquisition and management. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management, Inc. and its real estate services by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/rental-property-buying-guide-for-beginner-real-estate-investors-part-1/

This is the first in a three-part series where we discuss the process of planning for and buying rental property. We discuss the importance of experienced realtors, networking, and careful financial planning and we'll cover topics such as property selection, financing, and understanding market dynamics, particularly here in Memphis. Hear our insights on budgeting, property conditions, and securing financing. This episode is the 1st of 3 in our comprehensive guide to buying rental property. It is for both novice and experienced real estate investors, offering valuable advice on successful property acquisition and management.

Flames to Fortune: Cassie's Resilient Property Investment Success In this episode, Cassie Robinson, a seasoned investor with Enterprise Property Management, shares her 13-year success story. Despite challenges, including a property fire, Cassie highlights the exceptional care and attention provided by Enterprise Property Management. She emphasizes the importance of quality management in property investment and praises the company's commitment to maintaining properties. Cassie also discusses her unique journey into real estate, including overcoming personal hardships and utilizing real estate for tax benefits. The interview touches on the successful sale of a property, showcasing Enterprise's strategic approach to exit strategies.   Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/flames-to-fortune-cassies-resilient-property-investment-success/

In this episode Cassie Robinson, a seasoned investor with Enterprise Property Management, shares her 13-year success story. Despite challenges, including a property fire, Cassie highlights the exceptional care and attention provided by Enterprise Property Management. She emphasizes the importance of quality management in property investment and praises the company's commitment to maintaining properties. Cassie also discusses her unique journey into real estate, including overcoming personal hardships and utilizing real estate for tax benefits. The interview touches on the successful sale of a property, showcasing Enterprise's strategic approach to exit strategies.

Aaron talks about an influx of new property owners from other property management companies, seeking information about fees, processes, performance, and projections. He reveals the diverse types of property owners, including: Accidental property investors who hold properties due to circumstances like job transfers, divorces, or low return expectations. Seasoned investors who seek growth, and local investors who often prioritize trust and proximity for property management. Overall communication and accessibility challenges with previous property management companies have prompted many investors to switch, seeking a company with a focus on understanding both local and foreign investors' motivations while building trust by setting candid and realistic expectations.   Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com   Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/switching-made-simple-a-fresh-approach-to-property-management/(opens in a new tab)

Aaron talks about an influx of new property owners from other property management companies, seeking information about fees, processes, performance, and projections. He reveals the diverse types of property owners, including: Accidental property investors who hold properties due to circumstances like job transfers, divorces, or low return expectations. Seasoned investors who seek growth, and local investors who often prioritize trust and proximity for property management. Overall communication and accessibility challenges with previous property management companies have prompted many investors to switch, seeking a company with a focus on understanding both local and foreign investors' motivations while building trust by setting candid and realistic expectations.

Aaron Ivey welcomes back Mac from California. They discuss real estate investment opportunities in Memphis. They focus on areas with potential for value addition and share their experiences touring properties. Mack reveals his personal journey into real estate investment after inheriting properties from his grandparents and managing the family's portfolio. He mentions a nontraditional loan product called DSCR (Debt Service Coverage Ratio) that allows lending against the property's cash flow rather than the investor's income. They plan to explore opportunities in the Whitehaven neighborhood and near the airport. The episode includes a story about banks' reluctance to offer nontraditional loans before the real estate market correction.   Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com   Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/unveiling-memphis-gems-uncovering-profitable-real-estate-deals/

Aaron Ivey welcomes back Mac from California. They discuss real estate investment opportunities in Memphis. They focus on areas with potential for value addition and share their experiences touring properties. Mack reveals his personal journey into real estate investment after inheriting properties from his grandparents and managing the family's portfolio. He mentions a nontraditional loan product called DSCR (Debt Service Coverage Ratio) that allows lending against the property's cash flow rather than the investor's income. They plan to explore opportunities in the Whitehaven neighborhood and near the airport. The episode includes a story about banks' reluctance to offer nontraditional loans before the real estate market correction.

Investor Mac flew in from California to check out Memphis and join us on the podcast. Mac has an impressive background in banking and finance, and he's also passionate about real estate. Aaron and Mac discuss their careers and experiences, including the financial collapse and unethical behavior in the corporate world. Mac emphasizes the importance of visiting properties and experiencing them firsthand before making investment decisions. They explore different real estate markets and the advantages of owning properties directly rather than investing in REITs. They also talk about their recent tour of neighborhoods in Memphis and the potential opportunities they discovered. Stay tuned for more episodes where they delve deeper into these opportunities and non-traditional financing. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/knowledgeable-mortgage-officer-financing-for-profitability/

In this episode, we discuss the importance of financing in real estate investment and provide advice to investors about why proper financing is essential to ensure profitability and the success of an investment property. A knowledgeable mortgage officer will be the key to finding the right financing options based on the investment goals. It is essential to prepare a detailed plan that considers cash flow, rate of return, and desired outcome, to establish a focused goal for selecting properties as an investment. Working with a property manager who can identify properties that are likely to generate a profit and can help by weeding out problematic properties; a property manager helps save time and effort for buyers. Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/banking-finance-real-estate-memphis-tour-investment/  

California to Memphis for a real estate tour. Investor Mac flew in from California to check out Memphis and join us on the podcast. Mac has an impressive background in banking and finance, and he's also passionate about real estate. Aaron and Mac discuss their careers and experiences, including the financial collapse and unethical behavior in the corporate world. Mac emphasizes the importance of visiting properties and experiencing them firsthand before making investment decisions. They explore different real estate markets and the advantages of owning properties directly rather than investing in REITs. They also talk about their recent tour of neighborhoods in Memphis and the potential opportunities they discovered. Stay tuned for more episodes where they delve deeper into these opportunities and non-traditional financing.

We discuss the importance of financing in real estate investment and provide advice to investors about why proper financing is essential to ensure profitability and the success of an investment property. A knowledgeable mortgage officer will be the key to finding the right financing options based on the investment goals. It is essential to prepare a detailed plan that considers cash flow, rate of return, and desired outcome, to establish a focused goal for selecting properties as an investment. Working with a property manager who can identify properties that are likely to generate a profit and can help by weeding out problematic properties; a property manager helps save time and effort for buyers.

Jo Garner joins Aaron Ivey in discussing the current state of the mortgage industry and the opportunities for real estate investors, with the rise in non-traditional types of lending. How has the market changed compared to a year ago, with interest rates going up and house prices stabilizing? They note that there used to be a lot of competition from big hedge funds buying properties, but that has decreased, potentially presenting an opportunity for individual investors to purchase properties and create a positive cash flow. They discuss different types of loans, such as traditional financing and non-traditional financing. Traditional loans require a good credit score and typically a 20% down payment, while non-traditional loans, like the DSCR loan, focus on the rental income of the property and have less strict requirements. The non-traditional loans may have higher interest rates but allow for more flexibility, including buying properties under an LLC. Overall, the conversation highlights the changing mortgage landscape and the various financing options available to investors.   Learn more about Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate by visiting the Behind The Curtain Real Estate Podcast website at: https://behindthecurtainpodcast.com Transcript for this episode at: https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/podcast/unlocking-the-secrets-of-non-traditional-lending-a-game-changer-for-investors/

As the Memphis rental market experiences increased demand for affordable, move-in ready properties, investors are exploring alternative loan options.

Memphis Rental Market Needs Affordable Move-in Ready Properties; Investors Explore Alternative Loans As the Memphis rental market experiences increased demand for affordable, move-in ready properties, and investors are exploring alternative loan options to adapt to the current economic climate, we discuss how rents and property prices are stabilizing, benefiting tenants, and allowing homeowners to assess property values accurately. Some expensive areas might see home values go down, while middle-income and lower-income properties should stay stable. Investors who focus on these properties can expect less risk and steady rents in the future. The 1% rule is helpful for buying properties, but it's not perfect. It's important to consider the money coming in and going out of a property. We talk about the rental market in Memphis and different types of investors and why middle-income housing is in such demand. Enterprise Property Management has implemented several changes, which will be discussed in future episodes. Notably, there is an excess of staff in customer service due to the economic slowdown, leading to considerations about the surplus of employees. In terms of operations, PropertyMeld, a web-based service, has improved communication and streamlined maintenance requests within our organization. Finally, we discuss the number of empty properties and how we focus on finding good tenants to make homeowners happy.   Visit us online at https://propertymanagementmemphis.com/  

The Market is Stable: Memphis Real Estate 2023 This podcast episode is about real estate investing and why Memphis is a stable market for investing. Brett Bernard talks about how Memphis has been one of the most stable markets in the country, even during the 2008 crash. He explains that this is because of the large number of renters in the area, who work in the service industry in places like FedEx, St. Jude, the Memphis Airport, Amazon, and Nike. These people continue to go to work, even during economic downturns, which keeps the rental market and real estate market stable. We also discuss a case study regarding a couple who live in California and wanted to invest in, and ultimately move to, Memphis. After a rough start with another agent, they contacted Brett and bought a package of 7 properties, quickly expanding their rental portfolio to 11 properties. They are now making $7,800 a month in rental income and are planning to sell their house in California and buy a "mini mansion" in Collierville, Tennessee with the money. This story shows that with hard work and smart investing, it is possible to make a lot of money and move to a better lifestyle.   For more information about this episode of our real estate investing podcast: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/the-market-is-stable-memphis-real-estate-2023

Is NOW a good time to buy real estate investment property? As prices for real estate take a dip we discuss new and young investors, interest rates and scenarios to find lending for buying investment property, and we talk about why it's a great time to buy real estate. We talk about loans that allow you to buy as many properties as you can afford, the qualifications, and current loan rates. What lending options are the for new and young investors? Is a 40-year loan amortization a good choice? What lending options are there to buy multiple properties? Why buy property now rather than waiting? For more information about this episode from Behind the Curtain Real Estate Investing Podcast, please visit us online at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/is-now-a-good-time-to-buy-real-estate-investment-property

In this episode Brett talks us through his process for working with real estate investors. He discusses getting to know the investor, identifying goals they have, and how he assists in finding and making a winning offer on a property. He calls this process, Concept to Retirement!   Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/concept-to-retirement-real-estate-investing-process   Contact Brett Bernard at: (901) 692-7401

Investor Tom Durhan returns to share how he got started investing in real estate. He shares his top tips on how to get started in real estate when you have limited cash in the bank. How do you go about getting a hard money loan? Do you suggest doing an FHA loan on your first investment property or some kind of a conventional financing? Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/get-started-in-real-estate-investing-with-limited-cash Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401

Investor Tom Durhan discusses his approach to real estate investing and shares how much it typically costs to get rent ready, inflation, and Tom tells us what percentage he's achieved over the last 10 years. Do you have section 8 tenants? How much do you typically put into that property to get it rent ready? Are you concerned about the inflation issue with with tenants and rent at this point? What's the one thing in all your rental properties that is something you always have to deal with? How many properties do you have now? What do you think your overall percentage of return is on those properties 10 years? Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/section-8-where-to-buy-investment-rental-property Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401  

Today we discuss rental property tax deductions: Are my property management fees tax deductible?   Is investment property advertising tax deductible?   Is property maintenance tax deductible?   Can property insurance be deducted on my taxes?   Can I deduct travel expenses relating to my investment property?   Learn more about this episode of our real estate investing podcast at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/rental-property-tax-deductions (c) EPM Real Estate Memphis, TN.

In this episode we talk about the existing real estate market and all the changes that have happened, mortgage rates, and why now is a great time for investors to buy real estate in Memphis. Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/is-it-real-estate-boom-or-doom Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401

Loan Options for Investment Property: In this episode Memphis investment loan officer, Tina Talarico, covers the types of loans available for real estate investors. What would be a good scenario for a bridge loan? Instead of just doing an ARM loan or a 15 year, why would you do a bridge loan? What options do I have to move a bridge loan into a different type of loan? Does the bridge loan automatically convert or do I have to go through the whole loan process to go with a term loan? When converting a bridge loan to a fixed rate loan, how can I avoid losing cash flow through a higher interest rate? Is there an option to put more cash down, get a lower interest rate, and keep my cash flow in good position? We discussed ARM loans, bridge loans, but what other investment loan products come to mind? What are no doc loans for real estate investors? Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/loan-options-for-investment-property Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401 OR Tina Talarico at (901) 826-7218

Memphis investment loan officer, Tina Talarico, discusses interest rates. Will mortgage interest rates go up, or go down during the remainder of 2022, and what could we expect for interest rates in 2023? This is part 2 of a 3-part series where we'll be discussing types of loans for commercial lending, investor loans, interest rates, and types of properties. Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/mortgage-interest-rates-forecast-2022-into-2023 Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401 OR Tina Talarico at (901) 826-7218

Memphis loan officer Tina Talarico discusses types of loans for commercial lending, investor loans, interest rates, and types of properties. Today we begin a 3-part series where we'll be discussing types of loans for commercial lending, investor loans, interest rates, and types of properties. It's gonna be very extensive, so if you're interested in commercial lending, buying multiple properties or a single property, then this 3 part series will give you some insight as to what to look for. Find out more about this real estate investing podcast episode at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/commercial-lending-investor-loans-interest-rates-types-of-properties Contact Brett Bernard at (901) 692-7401 OR Tina Talarico at (901) 826-7218 [00:00:00] Brett Bernard:Welcome to behind the curtain podcast. My name is Brett Bernard and today in the studio with me is Tina Talarico, and we're gonna be talking about types of loans for commercial lending, investor loans, and we'll do other segments dealing with interest rates, types of properties. It's gonna be very extensive, so if you're interested in commercial lending and buying multiple properties or a single property then hopefully today's segment will give you some insight as to what to look for. So today with me is Tina Talarico she's with Capital City Mortgage. She's a certified commercial loan officer. Hey, Tina, welcome. So tell me a little bit about yourself. I know you've been in this business a long time. We've known each other, I don't know, few years. [00:00:37] Tina Talarico: I have been, in the lending business for over 25 years, a little over 25 years. I started out as a residential loan officer years ago and I transitioned over into commercial. [00:00:49] Brett Bernard: When you say commercial, you're talking a broad commercial type of lending or are you specific to a certain type of. [00:00:55] Tina Talarico: We do a broad type of lending in commercial. However, I specialize in residential cuz that's what I know and that's what I've done for so many years. [00:01:03] Brett Bernard: So if I have an investor wants to buy a strip mall, y'all provide financing for that. But majority of which you do is single family, multi-family, rental real estate. [00:01:13] Tina Talarico: Short term and long term. That's that's correct yes. [00:01:14] Brett Bernard: Gotcha. So when it comes down to the lending, what I'm more interested in is the type of loans. I get calls every day from investors, current investors and new investors that have linked up with us that wanna start buying in Memphis and, they always have the same issue. Last year I had a ton of cash buyers, so I didn't have a need for a lender connection. This year, now the interest rates are up and , you would think that it would be the worst time to buy real estate, I have a lot of investors that are buying, and they're all putting loans out. Some are paying cash and refining, and we'll get into that in a minute. So what kind of loans are available? I come to you as a new investor, I've never bought a rental property in my life. I have a good credit scoring some money in the bank and I want to buy a rental property tomorrow. What would your suggestion for me be? What would you recommend I do? [00:02:03] Tina Talarico: Well, I would recommend you start out with one property and take a hold of it and manage it for a little bit. Get your feet wet first. And then from then on, I mean, you can qualify for as many properties as you wanna purchase regardless of your income. Because we don't require tax returns. Everything we do is based on the performance of the property. [00:02:25] Brett Bernard: And your credit score, obviously [00:02:27] Tina Talarico: Credit credit but we do down to 620. So we do offer loans down to 620. Of course the terms are better when you're over 700, however, we do loans down to 620. In some cases the loan to values a little bit less, uh, maybe 5% less. We offer 80% on single family, one to four units, short term, long term rentals, which would be short term would be like Airbnb. So we do a lot of that and a lot of duplexes, four plexes. When you get to five units that falls into another realm. One to four units. It, it is pretty slam-dunk deal. [00:03:03] Brett Bernard: So basically the criteria is pretty loose, I would say to get financing, but is there a particular type of property that lenders won't touch? Is there a cap on the, or a minimum amount that use required if you're buying just one house versus if you're buying 10? [00:03:20] Tina Talarico: We have some options that will lend down to $50,000. Some cut off at a $100,000 and some of the options out there are at $150,000. [00:03:30] Brett Bernard: We're working one now and I think you said the minimum is $62,500. [00:03:33] Tina Talarico: Yes. $62,500 with 20% down takes you down to a $50,000 loan. So 50,000 is the minimum loan, that we can do. [00:03:42] Brett Bernard: So if I'm buying a package of 10 and they're all $49,000, I'm kind of SOL. [00:03:47] Tina Talarico: Yes, pretty much. [00:03:47] Brett Bernard: Okay. So let's discuss the types of loans that are available. I know they're, you know, I had a text from someone yesterday, asked me what I thought about an ARM loan. I'm from the 2008 era where ARM loans were a disaster for a lot of homeowners, because things collapsed and interest rates shot up and, and all of a sudden they couldn't afford their home and they wouldn't foreclosure. So I'm a, I'm an anti-ARM loan person, but in the commercial side and in investment side, I tend to think that ARM loans may not be a horrible product because typically you buy a property, you mortgage it, and then every couple years you're gonna refinance it to maximize your cash flow. Right? You're always gonna try to bring your costs down to get more cash flow. So, what is an ARM loan? Most people know an ARM loan is, but what's the term of an ARM loan. In other words, if I got an ARM loan today when could I refinance that ARM? [00:04:40] Tina Talarico: It depends on if there's a prepayment penalty that comes with the loan. [00:04:44] Brett Bernard: But isn't there a limit to the prepayment penalty as far as time? [00:04:47] Tina Talarico: There is, they come in, 1, 3, and 5 year terms. So you can buy that prepayment penalty out or negotiate the prepayment penalty. [00:04:55] Brett Bernard: Is it a percentage of the amount? [00:04:58] Tina Talarico: It is. Either you can buy it out. In some cases with extra cash or go with a slightly higher rate. So, we're talking maybe, three 8ths of a point will help buy some of that out. So typically an investor's not gonna refinance it within the first 12 months. So a one year prepayment penalty's not so bad, but, um, if you're planning on doing anything with the property, just make sure you're not stuck in that prepayment penalty because the way that works is that, if you have a three year prepayment penalty, the first year you pay 3% of the principal balance to be able to pay that loan off early. You can pay up to 20% annually, towards the principal and not be hit with that penalty, however, if you pay more than 20% towards the principal in the first year, then you're gonna be hit with that 3%. The second year it goes to 2% and the third year it goes to 1%, and then of course after the three year period is up, then you… [00:05:55] Brett Bernard:So ARM loans don't have to be dangerous if you're smart about 'em? [00:05:58] Tina Talarico: That's right. And, I've always been, against, anti-ARM you know, would talk people through it and say, are you sure? Because it's a risky loan. However, it's not risky for investors. It's risky for homeowners because they don't manage their money as well. [00:06:14] Brett Bernard: The asset's not producing any income. [00:06:15] Tina Talarico: Right. And they may not be in a position to refinance the loan when it becomes in the adjustable period and ARM loans are 3, 5, 7, and 10 year ARMs so that means they're fixed during that period and then after that period they become adjustable. Some of them adjust once every six months, some of them adjust once a year. [00:06:39] Brett Bernard: So if I do a three year ARM. I have an adjustable period, a guaranteed period of six months after that it can be adjusted up? [00:06:46] Tina Talarico: You have a guaranteed period of a minimum of 3 years or a minimum of 5 years or 7 years or 10 years. [00:06:53] Brett Bernard: So ARM loans aren't bad. [00:06:54] Tina Talarico: So it's a it's fixed during that entire period. [00:06:57] Brett Bernard: So if I refinance at 3 years when my ARM starts to adjust, I've got a prepayment penalty, but you weigh that against your additional cash flow you can create by that's lowering interest rate? [00:07:07] Tina Talarico: Thant's true and, and there's another plus to that as well. The fully amortized loans are always good because you know, 30 year amortized loan, it's gonna let you see that cash flow pretty good. However, after that adjustable period, whatever term is left on the loan, for instance, you have a 5 year ARM, when the 5 years is up, it becomes adjustable and, if the market is doing better than what your rate is, it may not adjust at all.. [00:07:33] Brett Bernard: Yeah. ARM loans got a bad name because when the economy started collapsing, the housing market collapsing, interest rates started shooting up, and now all of a sudden a homeowner who had a note of $1,800 a month, it was now 2600 2700 and they couldn't pay it. And that's what Glen and I did for a long time over at the law firm. We assisted homeowners in fighting the banks to try to get those, and, listen, I know a couple mortgage brokers who hopefully are in jail, who made a lot of money selling ARM loans, but they sold them under a false pretense. The angle was, oh yeah, do an ARM loan because they made more money on it, but oh yeah, 3 years from now I'll just refinance you into a permanent loan, so take advantage of this ARM loan. Knowing that it was very slim chance they were gonna be able to find 'em a better product when everything started adjusting upward. [00:08:19] Tina Talarico: That's true, and you never know if their income is gonna be the same and this is a homeowner that I'm referring to. Their income may have changed. They may not be able to debt ratio. The market might have turned their house value might not be there. Their multiple reasons why a homeowner. I'm really against a homeowner doing an ARM loan unless they're very financially savvy and they have plenty of cash reserves. However, I'm seeing a lot of investors right now going with the ARM loans because typically, historically, an investor is gonna keep a loan maybe 5 or 10 years, and they'll flip it and sell it and get their investment out of it, once that equity grows and turn around, and I'm seeing 'em upgrade little bit more expensive properties. So they'll sell those, beginner homes that they start with, they'll draw the cash out of those, sell 'em and take that money and invest it in more homes of another level. I now am a, a fan when it comes to investors on ARM loans. A typical investor does not keep a loan for 30 years. [00:09:20] Brett Bernard: Sure. No. Well, let me ask you this. We talked about the negatives of ARM loans. What are the. What would you classify as advantages of doing an ARM loan? [00:09:29] Tina Talarico: The advantages of doing an ARM loan? We offer interest only. So if you're looking to really turn some cash and see that cash flow coming in pretty good. If you do an interest only, you're not paying towards the principal, do interest only loan and do an ARM, this is really a win-win situation. [00:09:46] Brett Bernard: And you can pay principal toward it if you want? [00:09:48] Tina Talarico: Yes, you can. Up to 20% annually. [00:09:52] Brett Bernard: But you're required only to pay the interest on the loan itself. [00:09:53] Tina Talarico: That's correct. So, so you have a lower payment, and not only that, you just see more cash flow and so that I'm seeing a lot of that right now, they're taking that money, there, that they're saving on those properties, paying interest only, and they're taking that cash flow and they're fixing other properties or taking that and putting it back and purchasing more. [00:10:12] Brett Bernard: Right. Okay. You've enlightened me on ARM loans. Like I said, I just got a text from one of my investors yesterday. Somebody you're actually working with was asking me about an arm loan. I'm like, well, you know, I'm not a big fan, but you know, if you look at it from a cash flow perspective, which leads me into my next, discussion. I get investors a lot, that call me and for the last several years, they're always focused on market value. Now, market value matters if you're getting a mortgage because you gotta get it appraised, but at the end of the day, all that should matter to any investors, if the house is worth $110k and you pay $115 for it, but it's producing $1,500 a month in income, who cares about the market value? Because that asset is going to continue to grow. Comps are gonna grow, values and rent comps are also gonna grow. So in that situation, I would tell that investor, if, if they can get a, a loan based on a hundred, $110,000 value, I would tell 'em to pay the extra $5,000 out of pocket because the ROI is so much better off than what you normally can get in Memphis. The Memphis market's not slowing down, it's slowed down some the occupant has, but the investment side is still booming. [00:11:15] Tina Talarico: It definitely is booming. I had a an investor who sold his properties and other cities. He had a 1031 and he said, Hey, I have six months to spend this money and I need to kind of roll with it. I need to buy five properties quick and in a hurry. And I asked him what brought him to Memphis? He's from Florida. I asked him what brought him to the Memphis area, had a guy in New York, did the same thing. I asked him, you know, why Memphis? And they said that they bought a couple of properties in Memphis or had friends that bought properties in Memphis and they found that the real estate is, is very inexpensive here. Property taxes are reasonable and they see a bigger cash flow. [00:11:58] Brett Bernard: You know why Memphis, Memphis is a hot market for a lot of reasons. I tell investors. The main reason for me is because 49% of the people inside city limits rent. [00:12:10] Tina Talarico: That is so true. [00:12:11] Brett Bernard: It's a fact. So when you have a huge renter pool, guess what? Your house doesn't stay empty long. Well, the faster you can rent a house at top cash flow, cuz cuz renters are competing for properties you're getting top rent. Well, when you get top rents, guess what happens? That then begins to slowly push up the values. So there's always a positive side to the Memphis market. In 2008, the investment market in Memphis saw a 18% drop when the rest of the country was 30, 40, 50, 60% and I attribute that to the fact we have a large rent pool. So the investment property stayed pretty firm. I mean they, they lost value. But in let's see, that was 2008 by 2010, we were already back where we originally started. By 2012 we exceeded it by the 18 or 20% we lost. So whoever bought during that time would see a 40 or 50% increase in value ,rents and everything else. I don't know why so many people rent. I just know that Memphis is a distribution city. You got FedEx, Nike, Amazon. I mean, the list is long. Worldwide company. Every worldwide company's probably got a distribution facility here. So a lot of those folks work in distribution, they drive forklift trucks, load boxes, working lower management, work on the line somewhere, or, you know, they're in the service industry. They live paycheck to paycheck. So yeah, there may be a month where the car breaks down and your rent comes on the 15th instead of the first or the fifth. But the asset itself overall is outperforming pretty much any other market in the country. [00:13:33] Tina Talarico: And the reason that a lot of those industry workers or other job fields, the reason that they rent is that they are not able to save money for down payment. Sellers are not out there paying closing costs anymore. So they need more out of pocket to purchase now. And, uh, a lot of them have good credit, but they can't debt ratio cuz they buy the big fancy car and there's a couple of reasons why that they actually can't buy. Then some of them don't wanna buy because they don't want the responsibility of the maintenance and they don't wanna be tied down. Another thing that I've seen too about investment properties in the Memphis area is they don't sit vacant for very long at all. [00:14:15] Brett Bernard: There was actually a news article, I forgot what paper it was in, about a rental housing shortage in Memphis. I know the management company here was getting people throwing applications on homes before they even see 'em because it's so competitive. They were just throwing application, after application, after them they were spending 3, 4, 5, $600 on application fees, just trying to get a house because it was so competitive. Now it's slowed down a little bit, and I believe that's because tenants are kind of the wait and watch like to them. They watch the news every evening and to them, the world's coming to an end, it's falling apart. So they're not picking up stakes and moving anywhere, which is good for investors cuz you're getting tenants that are staying longer, but all these tenants stay at their job. You know, when the economy crashes, guess what? FedEx, Nike, Amazon. They all still have to keep shipping. They all still have to keep working, which means their employees still have to go to work every day and they have a job. That is way different than some of these other markets where you have so many self-employed people and their livelihoods are so volatile, dependent on the, the market and what's going on in the economy. FedEx is never gonna stop shipping. Nike's never gonna stop selling shoes. Amazon's never gonna stop shipping products. And that those two big facilities out there in Raleigh, you know, people go to work, they went to work during COVID. They went to now the interest rates are high. They go to work cuz the gas prices are high. Inflation's up. Economy's not doing well, but they're still having to go to work every day. So the good news is, is you get tenants that can pay their rent. We do have a number of section eight type tenants in certain areas. Low income, but the majority I would say are the tenants that are in my investor's homes work at FedEx work at Nike work at Amazon work at St. Jude, or in the service industry somewhere. If you're listening in a good place to look at is Memphis. My name is Brett Bernard I'm with EPM Real Estate, I am an investment agent. I deal with investors around the world, across the country, helping them buy and sell portfolios here in the Memphis market. I can be reached directly at (901) 692-7401. And then with me today is my guest is Tina Talarico with Capital City Mortgage. She is a certified loan officer and her specialty is in residential, but she also does commercial. So Tina give you your information out so if someone has a question they can call you . [00:16:24] Tina Talarico: My telephone number is (901) 826-7218 and you could reach me at that number anytime. [00:16:31] Brett Bernard: All right. So, I would encourage you to reach out to Tina. I've sent a number of investors to her recently, on package deals and onesie twosies, and she's done a phenomenal job of finding the right product for them. And I will say something about Tina versus most loan officers if she doesn't think it's a good deal for you, she's gonna tell you, so she'll, she'll be honest with you and say, look true story. I have one investor I sent to you. You told him flat out you might be better off going to a local bank. He did. He went to his credit union and got a better deal and got his loan done. We're about to close that one. So Tina will be direct and honest with you and I appreciate that about her. So, all right, well, we're gonna wrap this segment up. So if you're interested in talking about it, (901) 692-7401, gimme a call or find us online at epmrealestate.com. If you go to that website and go to second picture, which is the best looking guy in the group. That's me. My my cell number's on there is a little bio about me. Tina, why don't you give out your website as. [00:17:28] Tina Talarico: It's www.capitalcitymtg.com. [00:17:29] Brett Bernard: And if we can get you lined up and decide you're buying, I'll send you to Tina and she can get your loans set up for you and give you your options. Appreciate you listening today. You'll have a great day

Todd Riccio, Realtor and longtime Investor from California, discusses how he became interested in the Memphis real estate market and offers his experiences over the years of real estate investing and management of rental properties here in Memphis, TN. Find out more about this real estate investing podcast at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/california-based-realtor--investor-on-investment-real-estate--property-management-in-memphis-tn   Aaron: Today on the podcast, we have Todd Riccio. He is a longtime investor with Enterprise Property Management and EPM Real Estate, and we're going to talk a little bit about how he has become interested in the Memphis real estate market and maybe even tips and bits of wisdom that Todd has had over the years investing here in Memphis. Todd, you have been an investor with Enterprise Property Management for six years. Is that right? Todd: Yeah, six years.  Aaron: It's been a fast six years, right? Like, you really got in at a great time. Todd: I remember flying out to you, man. Well, I flew out to you and said, look, my goal is to get 40 to 50 properties. I want to get at least one to two a year, and you said right now, when we spoke, you said it's the equivalent of California's 2009, and six years later, you are pretty accurate, man. You know what I mean?  Aaron: Yeah. Todd: Because the prices have gone up and the properties that I first bought on Ross Road and stuff like that, that was like $105,000, probably like 250 right now. Just real estate agent out here in California. Obviously, prices make it extremely hard for me to build a portfolio out here. When the average house in Memphis, that would be 120,000, out there would probably be about 700,000 out here. So I knew that kind of branching outside of California would be the best option for me to accomplish my goals of having a portfolio that brings me $50,000, $60,000 a month when I get older. That's the goal right there. That's my 401K. That's my pension. That's my retirement, all these properties. Aaron: Do you remember what brought your attention to Memphis originally? Like what caused you to look over in our direction? Todd: I always did a bunch of research. I was going to seminars. I'm always looking for passive income, and Memphis was at that time one of the cities that would always pop up in different websites of best cities to buy rental properties, and Memphis popped up. Boise popped up, Indianapolis popped up, and Fort Lauderdale popped up. I think Scottsdale popped up, but Memphis was one that always consistently kind of popped up to me. Personally, I don't like the Panhandle States. I don't like Florida. Every time you turn on the news, Florida is getting a Hurricane. They're getting flooded. All this other stuff. There's Hurricanes. There's tornadoes. So Memphis was super stable. I remember when I spoke to you, you said, look, Memphis is pretty much an established metropolis. It's gone through its growth stage, and it's pulled backstage. You got Amazon headquarters there. You got Nike, it's growing. They're putting money back into the community. You got the Amazon fulfillment center. You got Shelby Farms. You got all this stuff. So it was kind of one of those cities that have already been established. It's not like an up-and-coming one, and I just felt comfortable. I felt comfortable with you guys. I felt comfortable because I actually flew out and me flying out and checking out the different neighborhoods is just one more piece of info gathering and due diligence, and ever since then, I'm comfortable with the knowledge, and I kind of think that that's kind of one of the things that I respect you on is there's times where I've said, hey, Aaron, what about this area, and you're like, look, I don't even think we could get a roofer out there because the neighborhood is not the best or anything like that, and you need that as an investor because it's not just about numbers, oh, this is a quadplex or a fourplex at this price, and the return is good. You need someone that's boots on the ground. That's, like, you probably want to like, from what you're looking for Todd, this isn't the neighborhood that you would express to me that you wanted or anything like that. I appreciate that info, and I think I'm comfortable after the first couple of them to get in my kind of system now, my numbers and my algorithms and everything, you know what I'm looking for and stuff like that. So it just seems to be working, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Aaron: Yeah, well, one of the things about working with you that I wish that other investors and other clients of mine would adopt is you do have a very decisive approach to investment real estate. You understand exactly what it is that you're looking for. I think that you had a really good start to your run. We bought some single-level homes in established neighborhoods that were built in the 90s, I believe, and you and I discussed this. We discussed in Memphis, what generation or what age of construction is really good for investments in an ongoing manner here, and so you and I talked about how, like we here in Memphis, if you live in Memphis, if you've lived in Memphis for a long time, if you do real estate in Memphis, especially, we have a term out here that we use called new construction or newer construction, and so what does that mean to us? Well, new construction basically means anything to me, at least, anything that's the late 80s or newer, and why is that different? Well, it's different because the technologies that we're putting into houses as we were building them back then are more durable. We're not dealing with poisonous building materials such as asbestos or lead. We're not dealing with shoddy electrical lines, like aluminum wiring that you found a lot in the 80s or late 70s all the way up into the early 80s. You're not dealing with things like I don't know… Todd: Asbestos. Aaron: Right, as asbestos. There's a type of plumbing material that the Dow Oil company produced. I think it's called polybutyrol or something like that, which is known to burst. It's like early Pex, and so if anybody knows what PEX is, we improved. We improved code and zoning, and these areas of newer construction are also in neighborhoods that are still highly desired by owner-occupants. And so Memphis being a wonderful town for investment, you can still get in and buy just like you have an investment property, which is right next door to someone who was on their property for anywhere from ten to 30 years, and you want to live next door or an own investment property next door to that guy you don't want to buy in neighborhoods that are all investment properties. You might as well buy a condominium or an apartment if you want to do something like that. But you've been very smart. You're like, where is the value? Right. So I've really appreciated you for that, and then the other thing that I love working with you on is you and I will often get in and we'll talk about a property and it'll get down to $10,000 or $20,000 difference in the price of the negotiation, especially in the last two years. You'll tell me, you'll say, Aaron, I feel like this is overpriced by 20 grand. What do you think, and I'll be like, yeah, I think it is. Your ability to walk away from a contract that's being negotiated and just say, you know what? I didn't like, what I saw, that the deck or the roof looks weird or that skylight looks like it's going to need repair. It's always going to be a problem. I'm just going to walk away. But we know that buyers can use that inspection as an excuse to walk away from something where they don't feel like now that they know the house better, they don't feel like they're getting a good deal, and you're very fast to point that out and say, you know what? I'm just going to pull the plug and walk away, and I love that about you. It's really good. Todd: Yeah, and the thing is, I'm on property number six and all other five of them that I've gone into contract. I've closed on because I'm also, like, a realist too of, like, look, at the end of the day, it's one-time fixes and stuff like that. But I think also having experience with the five other properties becoming more and more anticipatory of, like, I know that I'm going to get a letter from you guys saying, like, hey, the fence is shot or this that and the other thing and being in this industry, being in the real estate industry for so long, too, I'm all about preventative stuff and pro-activeness and stuff. So very rarely do I ever cancel. But this one I think I was like, look, it's probably like 15K, 16K, 17K to get it even rent ready, and after talking to a couple of agents, they think that it might slow down in November. I don't know if that's true or not, but around Thanksgiving time because I'm always hungry, too to get a minimum of one to two a year. So I'm still on the prowl of getting it. But it has to make sense as well, and the thing is, I've narrowed it down to a single story because me and water after being in this industry, water does not do well with houses and having a second floor. I just get nervous about water leaks through the ceiling and stuff. So single-story brick house for the maintenance, two-car garage, because I just value storage and stuff like that a usable yard, all that stuff where I'm sure other properties would do just as good. But this is just what I feel comfortable with, because you and I always have that conversation I'm like, look, Aaron, I know the rental market is very active right now, and properties are renting pretty quick, but I want the properties that no matter what the rental market is, if it's slow, if it's fast, if it's quick, what properties are going to be in the top 10% to rent out? I don't want the black sheep. I don't want the white elephant. I don't want the ones where in the time where the rental market is good, it gets rented out. But then when it's not good, we're sitting there and stuff like that. So I'm going to pay a little bit extra to be like, look, it's cool to have the two-car garage and storage when it's snowing and stuff like that. It's cool to have the brick and single-story because that's desirable and stuff like that. It's cool to have a yard because they barbecue and have their kids play outside and stuff. So that's also something that I value, as well as your opinion of this is going to be a very active one, no matter what the rental market is as opposed to on the lower end of it when the rental market does slow down. Aaron: Which it's funny that you should bring that up. So earlier, Todd, you had briefly touched on the fact that there will eventually be a slowdown in the rental market, and I know that your philosophy is obviously to make sure that you have just operable properties that aren't going to require. They don't require a lot from the renter. For instance, in order to move into their relatively simple, relatively basic layouts. There are all kinds of very specific preferences that you have that I think really head off these larger maintenance costs. That's really smart, and I agree with you. I want to go back and talk about storage for a second, at least a one-car garage man. For years you and I have talked about we'll look at a property. You'll say this one came up, the money looks good, and every single property that you send me has at least a one-car garage, which is very, very smart. In Memphis, Memphis is a very typical city of a million people more or less, and so in an urban setting or even a suburban setting that has urban tendencies or an urban demographic, you're going to have foot traffic, you're going to have petty crime, and so having an open carport in a city like Memphis is not a good idea. You know, like in Memphis, you need a garage for the door that shuts, and so you can keep your outside stuff outside, but also in an enclosed area that's secured. So another point that I would make to any investor that's looking to purchase property in Memphis is this if the house that you're looking for or if the house that you find that doesn't have a garage is $10,000, $15,000, or $20,000 cheaper than the house with a garage by the house with a garage. From a rental standpoint, it will always stand out to the renter. We have a great house on the market right now. It's a three-bedroom, two-bath. It's less than ten years old. It has a beautiful brick and French country facade. It was one of the last French country houses that were built here, and it has no covered parking and that it has no garage, obviously, and that poor house is just sitting out there and nobody wants it because they can't like, where are you going to store your stuff? Todd: Yeah, I kind of base it, even though California and Memphis are different markets, price point-wise. Human psychology, I think, is the same, and I think that after hearing clients out here, garages are huge because even if you're not going to park your car in there, people always have more stuff than they have room and stuff. So it's just having the options. I remember when I first started looking six years ago. There were some properties in central Memphis that have the laundry area outside in the carport area, and I'm like, Look, I don't want that either, because I relate that to the equivalent of houses out here having laundry in the garage, and sometimes when I hear people going when I'm showing buyers around like, oh, I don't want to go to the garage for laundry. I want it in the house. I just associate that with the same thing with Memphis, like, who wants to go out when it's snowing to get clean underwear from your dryer when it's 20 degrees out and stuff like that. So I just basically take my knowledge here and say what's the most desirable and the most desirable is going to be a two-car garage. Its single story is going to cater to not only the younger people that want to, but it's also going to cater to older people that don't want to climb stairs or anything like that. So single story. It's cool because it caters to more people having a yard to just stretch your legs out and stuff and not feel crammed to have kids play around and stuff and then again, the brick facade where there's not wood rot and damage and termites and all that stuff. So I just basically take whatever my knowledge is here and just transferred over to the Memphis properties, because again, at the end of the day, people want the same stuff just as people don't want to go in the garage in California. I'm sure people don't want to go out in the cold in Memphis and stuff, and so we can have an indoor laundry and they could park their car in the garage and walk-in their house with direct access and stuff like that. All that stuff is going to be desirable in my mind for the long term. Aaron: So there was a time when you and I were looking at these possible purchases, and we found several you would find, especially back in 2015 or so, and you would find four or five comparable in a certain area, and you would say, I'm looking at all of these. Which one of these do you think would be the most reliable? You know, which one of these do you feel like is going to bring the highest rent and obviously be the most attractive on the market, and we used to thumb through a Rolodex of houses that were possible purchases. I know that those purchases have probably become limited as you look in the Memphis marketplace right now. Can you kind of compare markets? Let's even say from 2019 to now, like, what is the difference to an investor when you're looking at the marketplace now versus two years ago? Todd: Well, I mean, the one thing that two years ago, I think that the good properties and stuff like that from what I saw two years ago, something would go like maybe 5000 over the asking. So if it's listed at like, 149, because up till last year, it seemed like $150,000 was like the ceiling of what these properties could yield that would fit what I'm looking for. But over the past couple of years, it seemed like 150 now is kind of the minimum, and it's kind of surpassed that. So I saw the prices increase. But another thing I've seen is whereas two years ago where if a property was like 149, it would sell for 156 or 155 and go 50. 00, 60. 00 over, and stuff like that where I just wrote an offer on another property and the highest offer with multiple offers was $30,000 over the asking price, and that just blew my mind because I was like, Are you kidding me? That's 20% over the asking price and stuff like that. So that's something that is new to me that I've seen is buyers in the Memphis market are aggressively going over asking, whereas a couple of years ago, they might go over asking, but it would be five, six grand, seven grand, maybe eight, nine grand, but not 30 grand. That was just unheard of or anything. So that's the one thing I've seen. But given that my background is real estate, I also have strategies that I could separate myself to where I can call the shots. For instance, when I wrote the offer, I was like, look, remove the appraisal contingency. I get it. I understand the terms, and I was like, put an escalation clause in which says I'll pay 33,000 over the highest verifiable offer and stuff like that, and that's where the listing agent came back and said, hey, we haven't offered 30,000 over the asking price, and I said, I'm out, you know what I mean? But it gave me the opportunity to know what I needed to be at as opposed to the listing agent. Just saying, oh, you didn't get it. We chose someone else. So there's different strategies that I use here that I use there that really stand out to the seller. And that escalation clause is great, because why not have a seller get 3000 more dollars with no appraisal contingency and stuff like that? So, again, if I could separate myself and write a more aggressive offer, I'm in the know of the risk and rewards and stuff like that. But it's all little strategies here and there that at least put you in the running to see if you want it at that price.  Aaron: Well, do you put a cap on your escalation clause? Todd: I don't because I could just walk away, like when the person said we had 30,000 over the asking price. I'm like, I'm out. But the thing is, I've seen when you put a cap, they know exactly where you're at, and so they know exactly where your cap is, and you could tell it. Say, I put offer 150 with a 3000 escalation up to 160 if someone comes in at 162, I'll never hear about it. So it's like, I'd rather not put a cap, and if an offer comes in at 161, they might say, hey, we had an offer of 161. You want to come in at 164. So I don't want to lose the house over two or three grand or anything like that. But when you put a cap in, you're kind of putting a ceiling on your place. So I would rather have no ceiling, and that also makes it difficult for the listing agent to know exactly where you're at because if you put a cap on it, the listing agent knows exactly what you're willing to come up to. If you put no cap, he's kind of flying blind to what he's advising the other buyer's agents of where my offers are. Aaron: So how are you financing your deals right now? Todd: I'm financing it with my own cash, 25% down. So $150,000 property probably takes about 30 GS, probably 35 with closing costs and stuff like that. So 35 grand gets another property. Aaron: So you got, I assume, a line of credit, or are you doing individual mortgages on each property, individual mortgages. So having said that and I know you're probably going conventional and not FHA, and so you don't have to deal with all of the federal requirements for houses to close. And then you've got repair addendums, and you've got all these other things that you have to deal with an FHA loan that you don't have to deal with conventional. So now we know you're fantasy game does appraisal matter to you? Todd: It does to a certain point. I think that I'm experienced enough to look at a property, look at what's sold around it, and kind of have a pretty good idea of where this thing is going to appraise that. So like the one that I was just talking about earlier, the one that came in 30,000 over. I'm out of that one. But if they came in 5000 over 6000 over and stuff like that, I'm not too concerned about it. I mean, even if it doesn't appraise by a couple of $1,000, I understand you have to pay to play and stuff like that, and at the end of the day, if it costs me a couple of thousand extra Bucks out of pocket, it's not a scarcity mindset. It's an abundance mindset, and I already know that I'm going to make the money back tenfold with just having another property because my main thing is keeping my momentum going and keep growing the portfolio and pushing myself to keep adding to and keep adding to it. I think I'm a good mix between looking at the numbers and being number conscious and stuff, but then also understanding that this is a good property. It's a good property. It's in a good area. If I have to pay an extra two, three, $4,000 to get it. It's the name of the game. I already know that I'll make it back and stuff like that in the next month with all the other incomes I have coming in and stuff, and it gets me one property closer to my goal of financial freedom and stuff. So it's just taking the abundance mindset and not the scarcity mindset because if you're dealing with the scarcity mindset and anything in life, you're always going to be hesitant and pulling the trigger and stuff, and it's just one of those things were being in this industry has really helped me out making these decisions and stuff, because again, I deal with a bunch of buyers out here where they find the property of their dreams, and they're scared to do a couple of thousand bucks, but they're paying 3,000 bucks a month in rent and it's like, look, just bite the bullet and just take a leap of faith and stuff like that. So if it matches everything and it's single-story with a two-car garage and it's upgraded because then I also look at okay, say, I don't get a house as upgraded. Is this what's the cost of the rent-ready one and that's like the other one I canceled on earlier this year. It's like by the time the fence around the whole perimeter was done cutting back the bushes, getting the wood trim of the deck repair, and stuff like that, as opposed to getting a property that's completely upgraded and spending an extra three or four or $5,000 because it didn't appraise but not really putting any money into because it's completely upgraded. I can quickly do the pros and cons and the risk and reward of that. Aaron: And the one that we were talking about may have only been a month ago. I'm not sure. Todd: Yeah, it was in September. Aaron: Yes, it was Southeast Memphis is where we were looking, and that house had zero updates. It was really disappointing, and you were really smart to pull out of that one. I mean, just updating a home in $2019. You're looking at $10,000-$15,000. We've got delays now we've got supply chain interruptions. I don't think we've necessarily seen the effects of the Hurricanes in the New Orleans area affect us as badly as we thought was going to happen. But we had a Hurricane come through about a month ago and it hit the Glidden paint factory. Hopefully, I can say that on-air and not have any issues. But the Glidden paint factory basically had stockpiled paint, as they always do, and the base paint and primer and things like that. But basically, the Hurricane flooded the entire factory, and they said, look, we can ship out what we've got and we can ship the base solution out to other refineries and paint makers so that they can finish the base product and move that out. But they were talking about a 30 to 45-day retrofit, and so we were going to have paint shortages and all of the lows and all the Home Depot and all these stores, my painters, a lot of my painters. They just stockpiled paint. They just said we're a Glidden company. We're going to buy up this paint and we're going to make sure that we have some in case there's a shortage so that they could continue to work through the winter. So anyway, that's just a random thing that's happening here in the south. We know what you like and we know what you've purchased. How do you foresee the changes in the marketplace if we take the whole foreclosure opportunity out of there, and I think that's something that you and I really need to investigate at a different time. But what are you looking at now? Because we know what was on the market. That was really great. That was rehabbed before. We know what's currently on the market, which really is not upgraded without a huge premium, and to ask and we know that you're not going to overpay and I respect that. I'm not going to overpay either. I'm not going to do it. I'll pay above a little bit for the joy of owning it and operating it and say, okay, I've got my one or my two for this year, but I'm not going to waste 50 grand just for the opportunity cost. That's not a good opportunity cost. Did you buy one this year already? Do we have one under your belt? Todd: Not this year. I'm going to be aggressively looking around November. November and the last two years. I've closed in December of that year. So like last year I closed December 31, and then I think the year before that I closed right around Thanksgiving and stuff like that. So I'm going to be aggressively looking in the next two or three weeks to be looking again, picking up my one for the year and then continuing to just push and push and push and even exploring the multi-units with you and stuff like that. So just always be open to pulling the trigger if the right property comes along. Aaron: That's cool. Just so that, you know, Glenn has got a couple in the bag right now. That just came across today, like in the last 2 hours, and they're both Cordova. Todd: Yeah, for sure, man. Aaron: Yeah, and that's exciting because we don't get Cordova a lot anymore. But these two, they're slightly distressed, just marginally. I would say 2% distressed, and that two to 4%, and of the value of the house itself, I would say, is cosmetic. So that's cool, and that's just proof right there to anybody listening. There's always an opportunity out there. If you're willing to have a conversation, right, you've got to be open to having conversations with people. You cannot do this on your own. When you listen to Todd and me talk right now, you're listening to two Realtors, and so earlier in our conversation, Todd was talking about how not trusting your realtor can get you into a lot of trouble. Realtors go through a lot of education. We go through a lot of continuing education. Being the principal broker of enterprise, property management, and EPM real estate, I have to take so much more education than even my agents. I have to constantly be paying attention to the news that comes down from our local state real estate Association and from the National Association of Realtors, and really know what's going on. Your realtor is being paid a Commission for their performance. Todd is a performer. There's no question, and he looks for a similar performance with us. Even though our markets are completely different. He asks me very high-end questions, high-level questions that he is asked as a realtor every day. He wants to know as the buyer, what am I getting myself into? What's my risk here? What do you think about this? What's your opinion? What would your experience suggest would be the proper course of action at this time? And then he relies on the information, my feedback, and my insight in order to make his decision, and I love the fact that he faces a lot of his decisions based on what I convey to him, not just his gut. So that's just so, so important. Listen to your realtor. There's a reason why you've hired them. So anyway, just to sort of ask you a couple of questions just to kind of wrap up where we are, and it's been a great conversation with you. Your fingers are on the pulse of what's happening in California, and I think California is kind of a leader in what happens in real estate. Really in the rest of the United States. You guys are sort of on the top end of fluctuations in the national real estate market. What happens in California often informs, the rest of the country as to where the real estate market is headed. You got some weird stuff going on over there like you were talking about earlier, very inventive insightful, imaginative solutions to real estate transactions, lots of technology, the rest of the country, though, like, if you stay away from the coasts, we still deal with hands-on. Right. Like, we want to go to the property, Glenn that we were talking about before. A lot of my agents will meet the neighbors. My wife, who just became an agent, by the way, four months ago, was at a property two days ago, and she was with the buyer who had flown in from New Jersey, and they were looking through the property and who would come out except for the neighbor. Right. So they met the neighbor and they got to ask those questions, right? Like, really important questions. What's your experience here? What would you do differently? What do you think about this property that you're next door to, or do you think they're asking too much? What would you do with this as a rental if you were to own it? Is it going to bother you to have a rental next door? What are your expectations of the community and of the tenant that leases here, and so a lot of that's going on? So back to my question again, when you consider your own business next year, and you also consider your investment business, what are the changes that you see happening in 2022 that you are aware of that you're going to be maybe shifting gears a little bit in order to respond to, and then how does that affect your investment outlook for 2022? Todd: I just think that there are so many moving parts right now that's all the statistical previous historical data. I think it goes out the window. We have a pandemic going on. You have inflation talk. You have the stock market talk, interest rate talk, Treasury bond talk, jobless talk. You got the borders that are going crazy around the country. You got other countries that are going crazy. So it's one of those things where I just put my head down. I just put my head down and do everything I can and just do better than the year before that and not really sway. I always think of Warren Buffett, where he said, when everyone scared, you go head first and stuff like that and that's kind of what I've been doing even in the stock market right now, like, all the stock of inflation and this that and the other thing I've just been continuing to buy and just continuing to buy and continuing to buy stock and properties I feel like are going to be in the future very productive and stuff like that. I'm getting into electric vehicle materials, raw materials. I'm getting into cannabis stocks. I'm getting into Carnival Cruise Line and United Airlines and Royal Caribbean and cell phone towers because of the 5G with electric cars and stuff. So it's just basically doing you and not really letting outside factors get in the way because there's times where I've seen time and time again people that I spoke to in my career five years ago, six years ago, two years ago, like, oh, the market is still going to dip. So I'm waiting here and they're trying to time the market, and they said that four years ago, I remember I spoke to a tenant four years ago and I was like, look, man, get in, and he was so Gung-Ho that he was getting a good deal on his rental, whereas just say the market value is like $2,000. He was getting charged, like, 1600, and he felt like he was winning the Lotto because he wasn't paying market rent, and that hindered him to buy a property because he was looking at the perfect property and this and the other thing and that didn't come along, and then all of a sudden, another year goes on and that and then nothing came, and then another year. Before you know it, if you would have bought four years ago, he would have had, like, 200 grand equity in this property and stuff like that, and you fast forward, and he's still been renting, no tax write-offs. So a lot of people look at outside factors of the market is going to dip in this, and the other thing. I just go with my plan, and my plan is at the end of the day, I want to have 50 properties by the time I retire, and if you really look at real estate, it might go down. You know what I mean? Look at 2009 when everyone thought the world was going to end in California, and then you fast forward to 2020 and they're above water again, and all the people that held onto their house and was okay with the 30 years the fixed rate at that number, paid and paid and paid and now have equity and now are above water, and the world didn't end, and all the people that short sell their house and gave up on it and thought that it didn't make sense to pay a mortgage on an $800,000 house when it's only 600 and they ruined their credit and they paid for rentals and this and the other thing and they're letting outside factors screw them up. It impacts you so much. So I have a big ideology of, like, make a goal and just whatever the factors are just making an educated decision and stuff like that. But I'm not slowing down whatsoever, because I already know that even if I buy a property that's 180 or 190 in Memphis and it goes down a little bit by the time I retire and stuff, I'm not looking at it to sell it. I'm looking at it as investment, passive income. I want to have about 50,000 a month when I retire, coming into me from all my rental incomes and stuff like that. If rent is going to go up over the next 20 years and I'm cool with this payment, and it makes sense now, then I do it. I don't try to time stuff. It's just it's one of those things where there's so many factors with Covid numbers, China defaults of Evergreen, you got the chip shortage, you got inflation, you got interest rates. There's so many factors that you could pick one and be like, this is really going to happen. But if I just do me, I've done that all the time and I lead with what my goals are, and it seems to work out because, at the end of the day, I don't let fear get in the way. I just say, you know, what if I pay this and it goes down because I also have that talk with my buyers and they're like, well, what if the market goes down 30K? I'm like, well, let me ask you this. If you buy a house and it goes up 30K, you're going to sell it and they're like, no, don't sell it. If it goes down 30K, I'm like, you understand that if you're cool with the monthly payment, you're fine. Right? It's like a stock. You could buy Tesla stock or go Bitcoin. Even Bitcoin was 40K, 45k. It went down to, I think last week 30K, and now this week, it's at 65K. So did the people really lose 10K or did they really gain 20K or are they still cool with what they got and only makers or lose money when they sell it and stuff like that? And when I'm buying these properties, I'm not looking to flip these things. I'm looking at my future 50-year-old self, and when I'm 50 and it's 2040 or 2041. I really going to care that I spent 170 on a property that the next year was 160, or am I going to be happy that I got 50 properties and stuff like that and they're all paying for each other and stuff. So it's always coming from a place of abundance and not scarcity, and the people that I've seen live their life on scarcity are the people that don't live a good life. I'll tell you that. Aaron: I think you're right. I think that there are a lot of people that make decisions out of fear, and I was reading an article about whether or not we have a balanced economy or an imbalanced economy, and this article that I read gave a lot of different ideas as to whether or not it was an economy that was based on greed or fear, which are the animal spirits which drive the stock market. Basically, it stated that there was more greed than there was fear, which is a good thing. It's a market that's a little out of balance. It's a little look to the positively expecting that things will be even better, and there's a lot of risks that people are taking out there. But at the same time, there's a lot of cash that people have right now, and we've seen that in California real estate, for sure. As I've said previously, that rip effect has gone all the way down to places like Memphis, Tennessee, Indianapolis, Cedar Rapids, other cities that are very popular for real estate investment. I definitely agree with you. Real estate, to me, is a buy-and-hold venture. I think a lot of people watch HDTV and they think I could flip this house. They watch Chip and Joanna Gaines or The Property Brothers or several new shows out there. I obviously don't watch IGTV because I don't know the name of the new shows, but they've got these new shows out there that are like people that are out there flipping houses and they're making money. My favorite shows are the shows where they do show people that lose money, and then they ask them at the end of the episode, they say, does this change your faith in the market or because you lost money on this deal? Some people get their shirts handed to them and they lose that $30,000 or that $40,000 on a venture that was supposed to make them $100,000, whatever because they tried for the fast money, right? I really appreciate your perspective on real estate, and I will say this one last thing. We have had so many houses sell out of the enterprise property management portfolio over the last two years. I would say it's at least 200 houses that have left in my management portfolio. That is a lot for a property manager to lose in two years. Simultaneously, we have had at least 300 houses come on over the last two years. So there are more people getting in similar to you, Todd, than there are people getting out. That's a big deal. I hope our listeners are hearing that I really appreciate you and your perspective on investment, real estate, and your partnership with all of this, and I am looking forward to working with you as the leaves change color and as they fall, things get cold around here. People do not want to buy so much. I think there's going to be an opportunity here this winter, this fall and winter, and then into next year. It's going to be great. So I really appreciate you coming on with us and sort of sharing some of your energy about investment real estate and how you've applied that here in Memphis. We're grateful to you as an investor and as a friend. Todd: Yeah, man, I appreciate all the insight that you give and it's invaluable, too, because again, the big picture is to have this for my retirement and stuff like that, and you really are the last line of pulling the trigger and stuff like that. Even down to a potential tenant where one of your staff was like, hey, Todd, we got these people and I said, hey, if Aaron's cool with it, I am and you came back and you're like, I'm not really comfortable with this. I value all that because again, what your ideal client is completely different than what California ideal client is, and so I could go and kind of base it on what the ideal California landlord is looking for, and it's going to be different than the Memphis landlord, and so I really value your guys ‘opinion and just the raw truth of it and stuff like that. So, that's all stuff that I appreciate you doing, and I think that we got a good system going on. I'm looking forward to many more purchases. Aaron: I'm grateful for that. Thank you for that. Interestingly. We're seeing the quality of the local Memphis and Southern tenant coming up, which is unbelievable. It's a really good sign of the local economy and the local demographics doing better. They're more successful in their own business ventures and with their education. You had mentioned major corporations which have relocated to Memphis and are now employing more people. That, of course, is going to continue. You and I didn't even have a chance to talk about the Ford F-150 Lightning plant that's coming into the Memphis area. It's a really cool concept. We could talk about it later. Basically, Ford had a plant here in Memphis that built Model T's and Model A's and all kinds of Ford vehicles here in the Memphis area all the way up until 1951. I think they sold at that time, and then now here we are, 70 years later, 75 years later, they're breaking ground. I believe next year on the Ford F-150 Lightning platform, which is all-electric.  Todd: Nice.  Aaron: This is just outside of Memphis, and so it's going to mean lots of great jobs and new housing, housing developments, and stuff like that. So anyway, we're going to walk through that together and see what kind of opportunities are out there. But thanks again for coming on, and I appreciate your insight as well. It's always very informative and helps me to even educate other investors as to how to do things based on your knowledge and your experience. So thanks for coming on.  Todd: Thank you for having me.

COVID brought new challenges to real estate investing over the last 18-months. Aaron Ivey sits down with real estate investor, Chris, to reflect & chat about his investor group, property investment strategy, relationships, and the need for professional property management services. Find out more about this real estate investing podcast at: https://epmrealestate.com/podcast/real-estate-investor-groups-real-estate-investment-strategy   Aaron: Here with me today, I have a 2-year partner in the adventures of property management. His name is Chris, and he's a member of a larger partnership that he is in with other investors, known as Round Oak. Round Oak partnership, if you will. Chris is here with me today to talk about operating real estate during the COVID era, the last 2-years of doing property management and real estate investing inside of COVID. So, Chris, I want to thank you for joining us today.   Chris: Yeah, Aaron, thanks for having me. I'm excited to join and talk about our relationship and our dealings over the last 2-years.   Aaron: Fantastic! Chris, just to start us off, I would like for our listeners to know I've laughed with you over the last couple of years, telling you that I often speak to you more than I've spoken to my own wife, on a daily basis.   Chris: That is a good point. I think you and I, on average, have talked once a day for the last year and a half. Certainly, more than I talk on the phone to almost anybody else.   Aaron: Yeah. I actually find it quite endearing that I know when we text during the day, that it's probably going to lead to a conversation, and I think that, hopefully, our listeners will be able to pick up on just the natural chemistry that you and I have. And there's a reason why we have chemistry. I believe it's because you are one of four partners in a real estate investment partnership, and the partner that you are in that partnership is the operating partner. So, when you and I initially met, I understood you as being a decision-maker and an analyst for your partnership, and that you and I were going to be making a lot of decisions together throughout the course of our relationship. So, I was wondering if you could tell us just a little bit about yourself, about how you came to be interested in real estate investing, and how this partnership came about?   Chris: Sure, so a little bit about myself. My background is more of an accounting background, I'm a CPA by trade. I worked for a real estate company that manages and owns apartment real estate, and so I've always kind of been interested in that and just through friendships, the people I knew from college as well as other people I've met within the Memphis area, really started talking about getting and owning some real estate. There was actually a group of guys, again that I went to school with, they started a small organization where they were buying and renting properties. They had a need where another partner was getting out and they needed to bring someone else on, and it was at a time where I was able to jump feet first and I was able to hook up with them. Kind of my role in it, as you mentioned, was because of my background in real estate I agreed that I would work on the day-to-day operations along with another one of our partners, Adam. While our other partners would be more on the backend recruiting investors or looking for deals in the market, that sort of thing, and so that's kind of how our roles are defined within the partnership.   Aaron: Got it, and so it sounds like the partnership came together in a very organic way. You know, if you don't have good chemistry with the other people you are partnering with in a long-term investment, like real estate investment, then it's going to be a very challenging partnership. I think it's really cool that you got into this partnership with people that you knew or that you knew of through your personal relationships. And so, when would investors do come to me and they say, well, I'd like to form a partnership with someone in order to expand my buying capacity or share the load of management and debt servicing, and all of this other stuff, I often recommend that they should talk to people that they know, that they should consider and survey their friend and professional group in order to, to think about this people, that would be the most qualified to work with. People with whom they've got a good working relationship. I remember when you and I first met, one of your partners had reached out to me and said, and I didn't even know you as he hadn't mentioned your name yet, and he just said, hey I'm part of a partnership. We own, at the time about 30 houses, some somewhat in flux, you know, around that 30 house range, 25 to 30 house range and he said we need help. We've been self-managing and one of the reasons why I would like for you to be our property manager is because we're all moving and we're all, you know, our families are growing and we're having children or we're sending kids, you know, off to college. We need help! We need boots on the ground, someone who will professionally assist us in the management of these properties. Of course, I signed on, and very quickly I met with you, and your vision for your partnership 2-years ago was different from the way that your vision is now. Do you happen to remember where you were? It would have been January, I think, of 2020 or maybe December of 2019 when we first met and started discussing your plan. It was very different from where it is now. Do you remember where it was?   Chris: Yeah. So, you know, back then when we were kind of bringing you into the fold and asking you to help us manage these properties, you know, our goal was to take all these properties that we had, and we had a pretty good mix of properties that were some of what I'll call appreciating assets, where we were holding them, we were renting them, but you know, the long-term plan is that they were gonna continue to appreciate. We had some that were strictly cash flow, you know, in our mind they, you know, they rent well, they provide cash on a monthly basis but don't expect much in terms of appreciation on those. They're in areas that the price kind of is what it is. Our plan was, we're gonna hold all of these properties, we're gonna continue to rent them. Obviously, I hope to grow the rents over time and use that money to pay down the mortgages that we have on the properties and, you know, ultimately just kind of operate these properties for a period of time and then, you know, eventually get to a point where we're selling these properties and paying off investors. Our time horizon on that was was pretty far down the road and I think what you are hinting at here is, you know, over the last, really call it a year, but it really accelerated over the last 9-months or so, we've kind of had a switch and moved up that selling timeline on some of our properties just because of the market and how overheated it's been that, you know, we're seeing on properties that, you know, I called cash flow a minute ago or we didn't anticipate there would be much appreciation. We're seeing appreciation that is sometimes upwards of 100 percent from what we bought the properties at. And so we are currently going through and evaluating all of our properties and taking advantage on some of those where, you know, we feel that the market's right for us to take our profits on the sell-side, and recycle that capital, whether it's paying off in the investors that we have internally or using that to buy another property in different areas, or just kind of evaluating what that looks like.    Aaron: Yeah. And without going backward in the description of what you're talking about, I think we may even have to have a follow-up conversation later and talk to the Chris of 2018 and 2017 who, you know, before this big boom and explosion in property values. It was that Chris honestly, and your partners at that time, who were purchasing property. Those were the partners who were choosing individual properties. So I don't want to spend too much time today talking about how you came into the properties that you had. You know, I am a little bit curious about how you financed it with your partners because I know there are a lot of people out there that are wanting to do what you're doing, you know, they want to form these partnerships and purchase large packages of properties. And so to kind of stay on your last point you accelerated your desire to sell, so now you've sold out of, let's say that you're still in that 26, 27 property range before this big sale cycle which kind of happened over the last year. You've now sold out about, would you say 13 properties? Are we at that point?   Chris: Yes, we're gonna be, by the end of next month, we're gonna be down to about 20 total properties. So we started with about 33, 34 doors. We are now going to be down to about 20. So yeah, that's right.   Aaron: At the risk of, you know, showing your hand, you know, as it were, can you tell us your long-term goals for the remaining 20 and then answer the question of, do you anticipate acquiring more real estate and, if so, when and what will that look like?   Chris: Sure. Yeah, I mean, like you said, without giving away too much, you know, we have a partnership with four partners and, you know, if I'm looking at 20 years down the road, you know, what I'd love to have, you know, we've got a core group of houses, what that number looks like I don't know. Is it 15 houses? Is it 20 houses? Is it 10 houses? Or is it 50 houses? Again, I don't know exactly what that number looks like. But we've got a core group of houses that are paid off that are providing cash flow monthly and that at some point, when we agree as a partnership because we've got a good relationship, and we say you know what, it's kind of time to end this, let's sell this off and we get a really good chunk of capital back that has appreciated over time that has provided monthly cash flow and, you know, we're able to each take our fourth of that money and, you know, kind of right off into the sunset with it. So that's kind of where we are in terms of the long-term. Now, like I said, I don't know what that number of houses looks like, and I think that that speaks a little bit to the second part of your question, which is, you know, do we anticipate that we'll, we will buy some more houses, you know, and a corollary to that is we anticipate that we will sell some more and the short answer to that is yes, I do anticipate that there will be transactions. I certainly think that we would be interested in buying more houses. As far as timing goes, we're pretty cautious with our money. There is a lot of capital out there right now that 's really driving the prices up and, you know, we want to be cognizant of how we use our funds. Do I anticipate that we will be making a huge splash in the next, call it 6-9 months. I don't think so. I think we think we can find better uses of our capital, either with our investors or, you know, just kind of paying off some maintenance on the current properties and really making them as valuable as we can. I do anticipate that we'll get back in and, when we do, I think we will be more focused on the type of market, submarket really that we're in and we've had a good couple of years and we've built some knowledge on what type of houses we want. Whether it be, you know, do we want to rent a 2 bedroom house. Do we want to make sure that all of our rentals are 3 bedroom, 2 baths? Do we want to get some duplexes and do we want to look at any multi-family, that sort of thing? And so we've, we've really kind of built our own strategy of what our ideal house looks like. It's a really really tight focus on that as we go into the next buying cycle, whenever the market turns for that.    Aaron: Yeah. And all of that is fantastic and I think that your strategy is fantastic too. It sounds like you're very, more or less, very comfortable with the completion of your plan for 2020, or 2021 I should say. You went into 2021 and I remember that you called me in either late ‘20, I think it was late ‘20, and you said, hey we're kind of moving - going in a different direction. Then we had a much larger call in January, February of 2021 and we talked about the strategy that you had moving forward, and you were so apologetic on the front end just like so many of my investors. I've got a lot of investors that are like you. They are well structured either in their partnerships or they have cash reserves or they had this long-term plan and the market boom in 2021, just really accelerated that plan. And, you know, for all of our listeners, I think that they understand they have been able to feel this rush in the market. You said with all this capital that's in the market right now to acquire real property, we won't go to deep into it and we're really we don't even have to talk about it, and historically low-interest rates and cost of lending, the money, still to this very day, just feels almost like it's free financing, and that's a huge deal. And if people are able to get into real estate now and lock that in, even with the cost of real estate, they're still able to get an edge as an investor through a low cost of borrowing. So there are so many factors that are just fueling this overheated marketplace like what you're talking about right now, but I'm really proud of Round Oak. I think you guys are brilliant. You know, I've spoken to every one of the main four partners. Of course, Matt, that we've referred to before, was a personal friend for years before we ever got into business and I've really enjoyed working with Matt and I feel like we've got good chemistry, the five of us have got really great chemistry, and so I've really appreciated how you've worked with us over the years. Can you tell me, just to reel it back to property management for a second, how has working with Enterprise Property Management, especially during COVID? How have you seen a benefit of having a professional property management company versus having done it yourself over the last 18 months?   Chris: For me, the kind of the biggest thing that is has been very helpful is really on the application and the initial tenant placement process has been a big help with, you know, everything from the background checks to the income checks to the credit scores and everything else, and compiling that information and getting that to us in a fashion that is timely, that is summarized well or, you know, again, I'm a numbers person, that is my background, so being able to see something and just taking that information. Is this person going to be qualified enough to pay the rent on time? and that's one thing that has been extremely helpful. It frees up time from having to try to put out a feeler for a tenant, try to put out an ad on Zillow or you know, something just something out in the cyberspace to find a tenant. You guys have that. You have a pool of tenants that are available and so that, just overarching, has been a big help for us. It has helped improve the quality of tenants that we have. As far as it relates to COVID, and it be the pitfalls and that sort of thing, we've certainly run into some areas where we've had non-paying tenants, some of which have been the direct results of the pandemic, right? They've lost jobs. They've made every effort that they can to pay but they're just unable to come up with the money and then some that have been left at the colon maybe you know, maybe they haven't lost their jobs and that they've taken advantage of the fact that the eviction moratoriums are in place and landlords have no recourse, right? And you guys really helped this kind of walk through that path and understand, you know, where we can get money. You really helped with some of the eviction settlement funds that the local government has put out there. You know, we've been able to take advantage of that a couple of times with a couple of different tenants. And then, you know, we've had a couple of hard situations or we have had to have people move out either they're not taking the eviction they're not responding. I'm sorry, not the eviction, the eviction funds, they're not responding, they're not working in any form or fashion with us and you kind of helped us in those situations where we have to get them out the door and ultimately get the property back or for our team.    Aaron: Yeah, and it's funny to me the things that you just said really have been, in my experience, the main topic of conversation that you and I have had over the last 18 months. In particular, you and I often spoke about the last conversation that we had with a particular tenant or at the very beginning of COVID. Well, I can't say the beginning. Let's say August or September of last year. So about a year ago in 2020, we knew at that time which of your tenants were not going to be paying rent and they had made it very clear or they had stopped communicating. To remind our listener in September of 2020, the initial eviction moratorium, which was based on Fannie, Mae and Freddie Mac loans, if you'll remember that you and I Chris we went through and we were determining like how these loans were financed or how your houses were financed or which ones were free and clear which ones had been financed through a federally back mortgage program. The courts actually closed regardless of the local courts basically saying we can't weed out, you know, we can't help the homeowner or the investor determine if they're loan is federally backed or not federally backed. So therefore we're just going to close our doors. And I remember I had to have several conversations with you as to what our rights were in that situation, and so I had to get my own legal advice, you know, and get that from my attorney and have him tell me what the courts were going to do or not going to do, or whether or not we had to wait, or if we had any rights at all. And then of course, one of your partners is an attorney as well, and this has done very well for himself. And so he actually had to go and do his own research and digging and realized that we weren't going to be able to move forward with those evictions. I want our listener to know that Chris and I spoke about this almost every weekday and then every now and again on a weekend date. And so what I'm so proud of Chris, with you and me, is that we walked through this together on a level that I don't know that many other property managers and investors did. I'm actually quite grateful for your patience as we were learning about what these eviction moratoriums meant, how we were to empower you to continue to operate your investments during the first waves of COVID and the legal response, and the government response in that situation. It was very very challenging and, you know, for the listener, there were several times that Chris and I would get off the phone and we wouldn't have any answers. I would say, Chris, I don't know, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna find out and I'm gonna write emails and I'm gonna make phone calls, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my best to find the answer for you. And Chris was very patient to say, you know what, Aaron, this is very frustrating, it's not your fault, whatever you can do to get me an answer on this I would really appreciate it. Chris, you were a good friend, honestly, throughout that entire process and I wish that I could take that patient part of your disposition, you know and train other investors as to how to see challenges because your group, your investment group, and your houses, your single package, you guys hit more with the challenges of COVID than any other investment group that I work with. And yet, here we are on the back end of those initial challenges and I believe that you have profited more than any other group that I've worked with, and so that patience that you have, during the time of challenge, it really paid off for you.    Chris: Yeah. And I appreciate that and certainly helpful, you know what you and your team and then, you know, your legal counsel and everything else was able to pull together for us. And like you said, there were times where you and I would talk and it'd be, you know, essentially me just venting frustrations at the process itself, right? It was not, like you said, it wasn't really associated with you or anything you were doing it was just, you know, the sort of thing of why did the tenant get this and why did they not have to hold to their end of the contract and, you know, the landlord is stuck, kind of holding the bags especially when you know a lot of the discussion goes around and it's the - the big landlord is the bad guy and they're trying to kick people out and not the face, right? Like, you know, we're trying to work with people and we, you know, the last thing we want to do is set somebody out of their home and put them out, right? But it's the same time we are not, you know, people holding an endless bag of money. We still have mortgages to pay to the bank and we still have other expenses that we have to cover. We want to help, but we also need the other people to uphold their end of the bargain. So, there is a lot of frustration on my end with you, just kind of talking through that dynamic. But, that being said, I do think that kind of came out and in general, we've been very well blessed. Really at the end of the day, we've kind of only had one major hiccup property out of all 30. I certainly don't necessarily want to get into that, but 1 out of 30 is really not a terrible percentage when you look at it in the grand scheme of things.   Aaron: Yeah, and just for the listener, I do want to point out one thing that in my opinion caused that frustration and then I want to ask you a question on your way out about your experiences. So on that one house, the eviction moratoriums, the delays, and the courts. If this is one of those things that, you know, for the listener that's not yet investing in real estate, you've read articles about, you could read a hundred articles a day on eviction moratoriums, on communities that are being affected by covid, on job loss, on how this is affecting the average American and what kind of protections are there for that average American, and you can read about it and you can you can think that you understand it. But the reality is you don't understand it until you're put in a position where you have to be a responsible party in that situation. And so Enterprise Property Management is, or, we consider ourselves to be a very responsible party.    We do property management every day. We're professional landlords. We do something that most people would never in their wildest dreams ever want to do, and we have to give bad news, and we have to be constant and faithful and integrous in our work. We are not slumlords.  So in this situation where the law very clearly stated that we were, as a management company, not allowed to help our investors get the property back because the tenants had rights and the residents had rights, we followed that rule and we said, I'm sorry, and Chris and I had this conversation several times. We literally cannot do anything. I can't, you know, the courts aren't open or the law says I can't move forward. So the residents were protected in that situation and they were able to stay and, hopefully, make some decisions in their own lives as to how to better themselves or how to get that second job or even get a job if they lost a job or relocate their family or whatever. So the government gave them that breather to figure things out and so we acknowledged that breather. The one mistake, or the one troubled property, that we had in that whole situation is where it was unclear to us as the property management company, to Chris as the owner, and to the resident even as to what the direction of the court was. In that situation there was a great deal of complication and let's just say a lot of lessons were learned and now everybody's walked away, you know, more or less from that situation. I was actually interacting with your Realtor this morning about that particular property and it seems like the path out is clear at this point and so I'm really happy that we walked through this together and that and I think even that one's gonna be a success when it's all said and done. So I'm excited about that.   Chris: I certainly hope that that is the case, you know, like I said, we've definitely struggled with that one but, you know, we were able to work through a couple of others that, you know, like said we were able to get eviction funds from the city to help, you know, keep tenants in in their homes while still getting us paid, you know, we had other people that we were able to work out deals where they left that the home without getting marks on their record and we were able to get the house back, and then we had other situations where we were able, once the courts reopened, to go through the process of filing for eviction. So we kind of ran the gamut of all the different options from keeping people in to taking funds from the city to, you know, obviously, eventually having to evict certain people. So, we certainly had to run the full gamut there and you guys helped us with that.    Aaron: Well, thanks. You know I think you just made probably the best point of the entire conversation today, which is that you have to look at all of your options. The solution for a non-performing property due to a non-paying tenant prior to COVID was eviction. There was one solution for the investor and for 17 years leading up to late 2019, early 2020, we and everyone in the United States, that was their solution. This tenant has to go, they have to be evicted, we showed up to court, we showed the ledger to the judge, the judge says, yes, I can see that the tenant has not paid their rent. We received possession of the property, possibly a judgment, and within 10 days from that court date, we removed the tenant from the property. Enterprise Property Management's part of that, as a more compassionate person, and hopefully, the listener has been able to hear that Chris is also a very compassionate person. He is as concerned for his residence as we are and he did everything that he could to keep them in the property. Balancing that compassion with your profit goals and your motivation for investing in real estate, which is to make money. People don't get into real estate to lose money, they get into real estate to make it! Chris and I worked together and we researched options and took advantage of several different options in order to retain tenants, keep them in their properties, if that was at all possible, and then if it wasn't possible, did what the law would allow us to do, which is to get the property back. That's a great point. Chris, I'd like to close us out, if you don't mind, with one question. Looking back at your involvement, especially with those 13 or so properties that you've sold, and then you've already told us that you're going to hold on to those cash flowing properties that most of which are paid off, which is super exciting. That's every investor's goal is to have paid off properties that are cash flowing, because it frees you to make all kinds of other decisions as to what to do with those properties and how you want your future to look, and we can talk hopefully in a future episode about your plans to use those properties as your own bank. Lend to yourself to acquire more real estate or do other investments. So anyway, here's my last question for you. Is there anything you would have done differently looking back at the last, well, at your entire real estate investment experience like what would you do differently had you been able to see where you are now, back then?   Chris: Yeah, that's a really good question and, you know, part of it, probably goes back to how far back do you want to go, right? There are certainly, you know, looking back on it now, there are certain properties, and it's property types, it's areas, it's locations, it's submarkets. It's that sort of thing that, you know, if I could wave a magic wand and go back 5, 6, 7 years, you know, I probably wouldn't buy those properties and that's, you know, they're kind of personal decisions that we made and, inevitably when you are investing in real estate, you're gonna hit some that are gonna be just home runs, knock it out of the park, and then you're gonna have others that for whatever reason, you made a bad choice on the house and it turned out to be, you had to put a lot of capital into it, it was a high turnover area, you couldn't get a quality tenant, and just whatever the reason or the rationale would be, right? There's always gonna be some of those. So there's some of that, right? If I can go back that much further and change that, I would. But if we go back and we look at you know, our path over the last 18 months and say, alright as we really went about the process of recycling our capital, would I do a whole lot differently? You know? I really don't don't think so. I think we've done a good job of trying to strike while the iron's hot, you know, we've had multiple properties that we've been able to put up for sale and you know, because of the capital that's out there, they've got into bidding wars and the prices have gone up even further than what we thought was a high selling price. We've had some other ones that have sat on the market for a while and we've had to continue to drop the price until we got it to a point that, you know, the buyers are willing to take that. I think we've seen some super good highs and seen some lows that have been, you know, maybe not as productive as we thought they would be, but still better than where we thought it was 3 or 4 years ago. As far as the big picture - would we do stuff differently? I don't think so. You know, if you want to start nitpicking, I think on the one we talk about where, you know, we kind of had 1 out of 30 that didn't go well, are there things that we could have done differently? I think so. But you know, you're really getting into the minutiae of the day to day operation. So, I don't think there's a large overall change I would make.   Aaron: Well, I would say the same back to you. I think that getting involved with your partnership has been one of the more interesting and rewarding relationships that we've picked up at Enterprise and I'm not at all surprised that the very high level of strategy that you had to employ in order to make sure that your end goals were accomplished, that strategy required that you and I maintained a daily conversation. My profession has only been 20 years long. I can absolutely tell you and you already know this, because I've told you in previous phone conversations, but there's no way that I would have been able to help provide the outcome for you and for Round Oak without your daily investment in conversation with me. It would have been absolutely impossible and looking back, I personally, professionally, feel quite positive about the last 18 months. I feel like the reward has been the experience of working with you to see your success in all of this and so, thank you. Thank you for that. I'm grateful to you.   Chris: Yeah. I appreciate that. That's good to hear and, you know, we certainly appreciated the help of EPM.   Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. So so Chris I know you've got to go, but hopefully, you'll come back later and we can talk about, in very general terms of course, the next stage of your strategy to either acquire more real estate or even just touch base with you and find out how is owning paid off property benefiting you and your partners and where are you going next? Like, how is owning that real estate assisting you in your future? So again, thanks for coming on Chris, and looking forward to an even brighter future.    Chris: Yeah, Aaron. Thank you very much, I appreciate you having me on and look forward to talking again in the future.    Aaron: Alright, thanks so much.