Podcasts about cpas

Send us Fan MailWhy Is This So Satisfying? This week on the Mike & Blaine Podcast, we dive into the strange, addictive world of “oddly satisfying” content and uncover why some of the most popular videos on the internet involve cleaning a filthy rug, pressure washing a driveway, or restoring a rusty wrench. Millions of people watch these videos every day, but what makes them so mesmerizing? We explore the deep psychological triggers behind these trends, what they reveal about stress relief and modern life, and why watching someone organize a toolbox can feel better than watching a Hollywood blockbuster.But it's not just about relaxation—there is a massive business strategy hidden beneath the surface of these viral trends. From a marketing and branding perspective, "oddly satisfying" videos are masterclasses in the "Before and After" framework. We break down the exact business tactics content creators and brands use to monetize mundane tasks, build immense audience loyalty, and leverage clear visual transformation to drive massive organic traffic. Whether you are a business owner looking to improve your social media marketing strategy or a viewer who just loves a clean driveway, this episode reveals how clarity, order, and visual progress can turn basic labor into a powerhouse brand asset. In a world full of business chaos, sometimes all we want is to see something get fixed.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4084B7HWYB0Support the show! If you enjoyed this episode, visit mikeandblaine.com to buy us a beer! We want to hear from you! Send your thoughts, feedback, or favorite satisfying video links to beer@mikeandblaine.com. Listen to all our episodes at mikeandblaine.comLearn about our businesses: Cash Flow Mike trains CPAs to provide highly effective advisory services to their clients. Master your business finances at cashflowmike.com Dryrun Cash Flow Forecasting for the office of the CFO helps finance teams get out of messy spreadsheets and into clear forecasting at dryrun.comThanks to our Beer Sponsors: Karen Hairston from 3S Smart Consulting CPA Larry Weinstein, the Cash Flow Cowboy from Houston Texas Neighbor Pat DevinNeighbor BreggerAnd New Sponsor, Trey Milton!Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4084B7HWYB0#SatisfyingVideos #BeforeAndAfter #Transformation #OddlySatisfying #BusinessStrategy #ContentMarketing #ViralGrowth #MarketingTactics #PressureWashing #Restoration #EntrepreneurLife #MikeAndBlaine #YouTubeSEO @YouTube @TikTok @Instagram @RedditSupport the showCatch more episodes, see our sponsors and get in touch at https://mikeandblaine.com/

What separates investors who scale from those who stay stuck? In this episode of the Abundance Mindset Podcast (Abundance Thursdays), Vinney Chopra and co-host Gualter Amarelo break down one wealth-building principle that's behind every deal Vinney has ever closed: accept what can't be changed — then create an advantage.   Vinney walks through the real numbers on his Columbus, Ohio hotel: bought for around $11M, undergoing a $25M renovation, converting from a Hilton into a full-service Marriott, and expanding from 195 doors to 230 keys — with a projected exit near $70M. You'll also hear how he turned 1,000 unused lockers into revenue-producing meeting rooms, refinanced his way out of a variable-rate apartment deal in Knoxville, and survived the COVID gut-punch when occupancy on a brand-new hotel fell from 87.5% to 25% overnight.   If you're a real estate investor, capital raiser, or aspiring syndicator trying to build wealth in a high interest rate environment, this conversation is a masterclass in solution-focused thinking. As Vinney says: whenever there's a big wall, there's always a window somewhere — you've got to find the window.   ⏱️ TIMESTAMPS 00:00 – "There's Always a Window": The Mindset Behind Every Deal 00:35 – The Columbus Hotel: A $25M Renovation Into a Full-Service Marriott 01:20 – Accept What Can't Be Changed → 195 Doors Become 230 Keys 02:15 – Estimating a $70M Exit (+ Accredited Investor Disclaimer) 03:00 – What a 506(c) Offering Actually Means for You 03:40 – 1,000 Lockers Into Meeting Rooms: Finding Hidden Revenue 04:25 – The Knoxville Apartment & the Variable-Rate Problem 05:00 – Refinancing the Wall Into a Window 06:00 – Why a HIGH Interest Rate Market Works in Your Favor 07:50 – The Hilton-to-Marriott Flag Change & Marriott "War Rooms" 08:40 – Control the Controllables 09:10 – The Banker Call That Saved $60K Now + $60K Every Year 11:00 – The Exit Plan: Sell, Go Passive, Manage the Managers 13:50 – Hospitality Roars Back + the New Tampa Acquisition 15:00 – Finding an Operator Who Isn't Stretched Too Thin 16:00 – No Capital or No Experience? Partner & Create an Advantage 18:30 – The COVID Gut-Punch: A Hotel Bought December 31, 2019 19:20 – From 25% Occupancy to a $6M → $12M Win 20:30 – Build a Mind That Hunts for Solutions 21:20 – FREE Books & Resources (the "Keep More" Tax Guide) 23:00 – Vinney's Closing Message  

Relationships still matter. In this episode of What's Working in Ag, Tanner sits down with TJ Roemmich, Chief Credit Officer at Conterra Ag Capital and employee number one at the company, to discuss how successful farmers position themselves for growth, how lenders evaluate risk, and what producers can do when finances become challenging. TJ shares insights from more than a decade helping producers navigate farm real estate lending and explains why strong financial records, clear communication, and trusted relationships remain critical in today's agricultural economy. While technology continues to change the way business gets done, agriculture is still a people business where face-to-face conversations and long-term partnerships create opportunities. Topics include: Why relationships continue to be one of the most valuable assets in agriculture How Conterra approaches lending and farm financing Common reasons farmers receive loan denials Practical ways to improve a financing application The importance of accurate financial statements and strong recordkeeping How producers can turn a “no” into a future “yes” Managing working capital and controlling fixed costs Current farmland market trends across different regions Why quality farmland continues to outperform weaker properties Beginning farmer financing opportunities through USDA and FSA programs Advice for young and beginning producers looking to build their operations The role of trusted advisors, CPAs, and financial planning in farm success Whether you're preparing for your first operating note, considering a land purchase, or simply looking to strengthen your farm's financial position, this conversation offers practical advice that can help producers make better business decisions and position themselves for long-term success. Want Farm4Profit Merch? Custom order your favorite items today!https://farmfocused.com/farm-4profit/ Don't forget to like the podcast on all platforms and leave a review where ever you listen! Website: www.Farm4Profit.comShareable episode link: https://intro-to-farm4profit.simplecast.comEmail address: Farm4profitllc@gmail.comCall/Text: 515.207.9640Subscribe to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSR8c1BrCjNDDI_Acku5XqwFollow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@farm4profitllc Connect with us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Farm4ProfitLLC/Farm4Profit Media is not a financial, legal, or tax advisor. Content is provided for informational purposes only, and we serve solely as a platform for third-party opinions. Any actions taken based on this content are at your own risk. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Title: The Upstream Strategy for Getting More Referrals from Fewer People Host: Michael J. Maher Guest: Justin Stoddart Description: What if getting more referrals did not require building more relationships, but building the right relationships? In this episode, Michael J. Maher sits down with Justin Stoddart, author of *The Upstream Model* and host of *Built on Referrals*, to reveal how professionals can generate more referrals from fewer people. Justin explains how to identify "upstream" partners: trusted professionals who are already serving your future clients before those clients ever need you. For real estate agents, these partners may include financial advisors, CPAs, estate attorneys, lenders, architects, interior designers, roofers, and other professionals who learn about important life changes before an agent does. You'll discover how to approach potential partners without appearing transactional, use three-way text introductions to establish trust, uncover the problems your partners need solved, and progress from solicitor to vendor, peer, mentor, and ultimately, leader. Michael and Justin also explore why nurturing a powerful referral source can be more valuable than chasing individual referrals. Instead of constantly searching for the next "golden egg," you'll learn how to build meaningful relationships with the "golden geese" who can consistently introduce you to future clients. If you want a more strategic, predictable, and relationship-driven way to grow your business, this episode will show you why it is time to go upstream. (7L) Referral Strategies: Networking Special Offer: Discover the strength of your referral business and identify your greatest opportunities for growth by taking Justin's assessment at BuiltOnReferrals.com. To learn Michael J. Maher's proven strategies for generating referrals through generosity, relationships, and appreciation, visit ReferralMasteryAcademy.com.

AI Engineer World's Fair regular bird tix will sell out ~today! Join us next week ahead of the Late Bird price hike and get >$40,000 in sponsor credits for attending!Thanks to the US Government issuing an export control directive on Mythos and Fable, the risks of jailbreaks and (industry term) indirect prompt injection are suddenly the talk of the town, though we have been covering AI security for a few years now, from Hackaprompt to the enigmatic Pliny the Elder.Zico Kolter, member of OpenAI's board of directors on the Safety & Security Committee, and Matt Fredrikson, CMU professor and CEO of Gray Swan, co-authored the definitive paper on Indirect Prompt Injections, and Gray Swan were cited authorities on the Mythos model card, directly investigating the exact capabilities that are under scrutiny right now:We seized the opportunity to ask them the state of AI Red Teaming, and Shade, the adversarial red teaming tool that Anthropic used to evaluate the robustness of their models against prompt injection attacks in coding environments. Shade is part of their overall toolkit covering Simon Willison's Lethal Trifecta, including Cygnal, an AI guardrails product, and the world's largest AI Red Teaming Arena, including AIRT celebrity Wyatt Walls.All of this security tooling, and yet, we're only staving off the inevitable.The risks of extremely smart AI increasingly feel like gray swan events: an event that everyone can see coming. In this episode, Gray Swan cofounders Zico Kolter and Matt Fredrikson join swyx to explain why AI security is not just “cybersecurity with AI,” why agents introduce a new class of vulnerabilities, and why the next major AI incident may be a gray swan: unlikely, but clearly visible before it happens.We go deep on prompt injection, automated red teaming, model robustness, agent identity, computer-use agents, enterprise guardrails, and the emerging AI insurance/compliance stack. Zico and Matt also explain why frontier models are not automatically safer as they scale, why specialized red-teaming models can now beat humans at breaking AI systems, and why the future of AI security may depend on AI systems attacking, defending, and interpreting other AI systems.We discuss:* Why AI systems need a different security mindset from traditional software* How prompt injection creates a new exploit class for agents like Codex and Claude Code* Gray Swan Arena and the rise of community red teaming* Shade: AI that can outperform humans at breaking models* Why LLMs are an alien form of intelligence that fail differently from humans* Human vs browser-agent robustness and why humans ranked fourth* Why eval awareness and capability elicitation matter* Cygnal: Gray Swan's guardrail model for policy enforcement* Why bigger models do not automatically become more robust* The lethal trifecta: untrusted data, private data, and exfiltration* Why “just prompt it better” is not enough for enterprise AI security* OpenClaw, computer-use agents, and the agent security nightmare* Agent-native identity, permissions, and enterprise deployment* Why AI security may become part of insurance and compliance* Why the first major AI prompt-injection breach may be inevitableGray Swan* Website: https://www.grayswan.ai/Zico Kolter* X: https://x.com/zicokolter* Website: https://zicokolter.com/* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zico-kolter-560382a4/Matt Fredrikson* Website: https://www.mattfredrikson.com/* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-fredrikson-7596349/Timestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:02:31 Why AI Security Is Different00:06:38 Testing Claude, Codex, and Prompt Injection00:07:47 Gray Swan Arena and Automated Red Teaming00:11:14 AI That Breaks Models Better Than Humans00:14:00 LLMs as Alien Intelligence00:19:00 Humans vs AI Agents00:24:35 Red Teaming, Jailbreaks, and Capability Elicitation00:26:11 Cygnal: Guardrails for AI Agents00:34:04 The Lethal Trifecta00:39:31 Can AI Automate AI Research?00:45:47 OpenClaw and the Computer-Use Security Problem00:50:44 Agent Identity, Permissions, and Enterprise AI00:54:24 The Future of AI Security01:00:30 AI Insurance and Compliance01:04:32 The Gray Swan Event Everyone Sees Coming01:06:04 Closing ThoughtsTranscriptIntroduction: Gray Swan, AI Security, and CMUSwyx [00:00:00]: We're here in the studio with Gray Swan, Matt and Zico. Welcome.Zico [00:00:08]: Great to be here.Matt [00:00:09]: Thanks for having us.Swyx [00:00:10]: You're visiting from Pittsburgh? The home of all good computer science. I don't know if I'm overstating things. A very strong university.Zico [00:00:18]: CMU has been the center of a lot of AI since really the dawn of the field.Swyx [00:00:22]: Especially a lot of self-driving and some language learning. Congrats on your Series A. You're here because you're attending Snowflake Summit, and Snowflake is one of your investors. Let's introduce crisply at the top: what is Gray Swan, and what have you chosen as your startup domain?Matt [00:00:42]: At Gray Swan, our mission is to empower everyone to use AI safely and securely. Large language models are software, and if you want to deploy them or build applications on top of them, you need to understand the vulnerabilities and what can go wrong. That includes everyday mistakes, like an agent making the wrong tool call, but also worst-case scenarios where an attacker has an incentive to make your agent misbehave, leak data, or steal credentials. Gray Swan grew out of our research at Carnegie Mellon, where Zico and I have spent over a decade studying new vulnerabilities and attack surfaces in deep learning systems: how to test for them, understand their severity, and make inference more robust.Adversarial Examples and Why AI Security Is DifferentSwyx [00:02:05]: Honestly, a very fruitful area of study for any academic. Throwback, this is 10 years ago, which is basically the entirety of me. I got a lot of inspiration from Ian Goodfellow, a friend of the pod, and this is one of those initial adversarial settings.Matt [00:02:23]: This paper was directly inspired by Ian's work.Swyx [00:02:29]: Zico, what about your side of the story?Zico [00:02:31]: Like Matt, I have been faculty at Carnegie Mellon for a while. Fundamentally, we believe in the transformative power of AI. It has already transformed the software ecosystem, and it will transform many other ecosystems going forward. The issue is that these systems behave very differently from the software we are used to. I do not just mean that AI can find vulnerabilities in software, though it can. I mean that AI systems have inherent vulnerabilities of their own. They can be tricked in ways people can be tricked, so you need a different security mindset.Zico [00:03:23]: This matters especially when there is the possibility of correlated failures. It is not just that there are many AI systems out there; it is that everyone is using a few models. If you find vulnerabilities in agents that everyone uses, like Codex and Claude Code, you have a new class of exploit. The labs are doing a lot of work here, but when a new platform emerges, a separate security system often emerges alongside it. That is where we are with AI: there is a need for specifically minded AI safety and security providers, and the demand is only going to grow.Treating Models as Untrusted SystemsSwyx [00:04:55]: I want to highlight right at the top that this is not a cyber episode in the traditional sense. A lot of people looking at the title might think that, but you're actually trying to treat these models inherently as untrusted entities?Zico [00:05:11]: Exactly. This is a common conflation because AI is also good at cybersecurity problems, both solving them and causing them. But AI systems themselves introduce new vulnerabilities. Gray Swan is not about using AI to make your cyber infrastructure better; it is about understanding and mitigating the security risks you bring in when you adopt and deploy AI.Matt [00:05:49]: A big part of that is how people are using artificial intelligence. Once you build entire autonomous systems on top of models and integrate them into your larger platform or network, you have a potential cybersecurity risk. The goal is to mitigate the risk posed by the AI as it relates to your broader cybersecurity goals.Testing Claude, Codex, and Indirect Prompt InjectionZico [00:06:17]: Part of this is red teaming. One reason we reached out to you was that you were involved in the Claude Mythos preview, where you were one of the authorities on IPI, or indirect prompt injection. When you receive a model, it does not have to be Mythos, but that is the most prominent one right now: what do you do with it?Matt [00:06:38]: We do a range of things. In the Mythos case, the concern from Anthropic was how robust the model is to indirect prompt injection. If you operate a coding agent and use Mythos as the model, it will fetch untrusted content and read text you do not control. How robust will it be at staying true to its original objective and not getting hijacked? We also help frontier labs test their safeguards for issues like cyber misuse. Broadly, we provide adversarial safety and security evaluations so model builders can assess progress from one iteration to the next.Zico [00:07:37]: They also do this in-house, and Anthropic is very ideologically inclined to do it. What do they choose to outsource versus keep in-house?Gray Swan Arena and Automated Red TeamingMatt [00:07:47]: So there are two things that I think, we stand out for. One is the Gray Swan Arena. So we operate a community of red teamers. We provide, prize challenges. a lot of these come from the needs of the lab sponsors. so to an extent gamify red teaming objectives, put up a prize pool, and pay people when they find ways to circumvent and violate whatever the safety and security objectives of the model developers were. So that's, that's one. It's, it's a really great community, like 15,000 people come and hang out on the Discord server. Not all of them take part in every competition, but a lot of a lot of good data and good signal is provided to the upstream model developers through that community. The second is the automated red teaming that we do. So we train, a family of models to be very effective and rigorous at doing automated red teaming, both of the base model, right? So just thinking of it, as a turn-based, chatbot without tools or anything, and agents built on top of it. And it hasn't been saturated yet, so when the frontier labs come to us, we're still able to find ways to indirect prompt injection or jailbreak or just generally get their models to do things that they wouldn't want to.Zico [00:09:11]: Did you say without tools?Matt [00:09:12]: With and without tools.Zico [00:09:13]: With and without tools.Matt [00:09:13]: So we definitely operate on On agents as well.Zico [00:09:16]: Obviously that would be more useful.Matt [00:09:17]: Yep. that's, that's actually a fairly recent thing. For a while, what we would help, the frontier labs with was more just, chat-based interactions, going around their content safety policies and what is in their model spec. Now the focus is very much on agents and tool use and all the downstream applications that people want to build on top.Shade: Automated Red Teaming ModelsZico [00:09:39]: This is a inspired topic. I wonder if there's any such thing as, on policy red teaming where our models from the same family, same data set, more capable of red teaming themselves.Matt [00:09:51]: That's an interesting question. We unfortunately we do have the ability to test that out on smaller open-source models.Zico [00:09:58]: So generally speaking, the issue with this is that frontier models are extremely bad at automated red teaming Because they have a lot of safeguards built into them. So if you try to use them to jailbreak another model, they will actually refuse. Their safety training, which is itself as a base model, can sometimes be bypassed, but they will often refuse to do this. Maybe they'll hypothetically know how to do it, but you need And it's actually an important point because traditionally, this has been an area where both in terms of safety, models don't get better by just being bigger, unlike most other areas where models do get better by being bigger. Safety has not been like that traditionally. you have to train them explicitly to be safe or they won't do that. But on the flip side, they're also not necessarily better at red teaming, by default. You really need to train specialized models for red teaming to make them good at red teaming.Matt [00:10:56]: That's awesome for you guys.Zico [00:10:58]: And so, and what do you need to do that? Well, you need lots of data From people that are traditionally much better at red teaming. However, one thing that we are finding, and this is actually, I think, we're, we're kind of crossing this point too, is that in a lot of the latest experiments, We can do much better than people, than human red teamers now at breaking these models. When I say we, our automated red teaming model. It's a system called Shade. That system is now actually quite a bit better at breaking, models than humans are. I think we had a recent competition Between humans and our model, and it was actually quite a bit better. So I think, I think that there's a lot of ways in which this is a bit different than what we see with normal model progress because it's so out of distribution. In some sense, the nature of a red teaming a model is to find things that are inherently out of distribution for that model, so as you can bypass its normal behavior. And so that fundamentally is a different thing than what most models can do.Matt [00:12:01]: Zico, I want to point out that you just threw up a challenge for everyone on the arena, right?Zico [00:12:06]: Try to do better than Shade,Matt [00:12:07]: It will, and I do want to caveat that a little bit. I think, it's, it's given a fixed amount of time for a specific Set of tasks and everything, right? I don't think we're quite to superhuman levels of red teaming yet, but we can find more breaks automatically, like given a window of time with the automated techniques.Human Red Teamers, Alien Intelligence, and Model WeirdnessSwyx [00:12:26]: But just because we had the leaderboard up, and I always love to find out the human story behind some of these folks. Do you I assume some of them. Are they celebrities in their own right? what'sZico [00:12:35]: Wyatt's a big person on Twitter. You should, you should follow him on Twitter If you're not already. Yeah.Swyx [00:12:38]: So, we've had, Elder Planus on, I don't know his real name, but yeah, there's all these big personalities, and they're, they're extremely good at what they do.Matt [00:12:49]: They're, they're very good at what they do.Swyx [00:12:51]: Oh, he's an Aussie.Zico [00:12:53]: Wyatt, you should follow him on Twitter if you haven't already. He makes, he makes great He makes these really insightful posts. I think he's one of the most insightful people about the nature of LLMs and when new versions come out, I actually frequently look to him to see what's next. He's a lawyer, I think, right?Matt [00:13:09]: He's an attorney.Swyx [00:13:13]: There's red lining, red teaming The other thing. Yep.Zico [00:13:16]: Yes. Our top, competitors are often people that, Do this a lot.Swyx [00:13:22]: What's an example of a thing that you've learned from Wyatt? Oh.Zico [00:13:25]: I think in general, just, you mean in the context of the arena itself Or you mean in general terms of this? I think he just has great insights in the nature of models as a whole. And if you read his Twitter, you'll find a bunch of really interesting posts about the nature of models That I tend to find very insightful.Swyx [00:13:42]: Riley's like this as well, right? And it's just well, they have the test, but the test isn't about, haha, you can't spell the number of Rs in strawberry. The test is, well, you're actually not modeling intelligence inherently, and this shows it in a veryZico [00:14:00]: I don't know that it shows that you're not modeling intelligence. I think these things are intelligent. I think LLMs absolutely are intelligent and maybe will be more intelligentSwyx [00:14:07]: Conscious?Zico [00:14:07]: At some point.Swyx [00:14:07]: Are they conscious?Zico [00:14:08]: Conscious is a weird word But I actually don't, I don't think so. I think, I think the way that we're getting super philosophical now.Swyx [00:14:16]: That's, that's the right answer.Zico [00:14:16]: We're getting very philosophical now. But I don't think so. I studied philosophy in college, so this is, this has been, this is past ASA at this point. It is clearly a different form of intelligence than people. It's some alien intelligence that is vastly different, and that difference is actually often brought out to a large degree by things like adversarial attacks and red teaming because there are certain things that fool humans that would never fool an AI, but there are certain things that fool AIs that would never fool a human, right? So it's just, it's just a different form of intelligence. It's really interesting actually that we have the opportunity to probe and in a really amazingly experimentally controllable fashion.Matt [00:14:59]: Like almost omniscient, right?Zico [00:15:02]: I'm, I'll, I'll do the analogy to neuroscience here. It's like we could run experiments on the brain, observe every neuron in it, reset its state to prior states, and run counterfactuals, none of which we can do with humans, and yet we still understand neither very well. Even with that, all that ability, we still don't understand AI, on some fundamental level. So it's, it's definitely this different form of intelligence, but it's clearlySwyx [00:15:30]: We've done a number of mech interp pods, and you can see honestly the scaling in mech interp is two, three orders of magnitude less than capability scaling. so we're hopelessly behind is what I'm saying.Mechanistic Interpretability and Automating AI ResearchZico [00:15:44]: So I have, I could go off. It's a little off tangent here. We're getting, we're getting, we're getting, we're getting a bit, but yeah.Matt [00:15:48]: Well, no, I think it actually, it does relate, right? Go ahead. Do your tangent.Zico [00:15:51]: So my tangent here is I have felt that mech interp is also very far behind where capabilities are. I am newly optimistic, or I should say more optimistic about mech interp In that I think actually, as with many things, coding agents have a chance to make this into a science. So the problem with mech interp, and I'm Okay, so I shouldn't say the problem. I don't want to call it a field. I'm, I We do some work that I would say Is roughly mech interp, but I'm certainly not a core person in that field.Swyx [00:16:19]: For folks to see.Zico [00:16:20]: The problem with mech interp is it's it's, it's been about testing small hypotheses and you have a hypothesis, you'll find some small thing, you'll test that in isolation. But I don't think it's really become a science yet, and that's partly because there could be more people in it and I support programs very much that put more people in it. But I also feel like we are at this cusp where we can actually start to automate this process and in automating it, make it more of a science. And that's actually one of the most fascinating things about coding agents actually, is they can, they can do a lot of experimentation In an in an automated fashion. Yeah. They will give new hope. They'll breathe new life into mech interp research.Swyx [00:16:58]: So recursive mech interp is what you mean. Neel Nanda had this whole thing where he was “Okay, let's just give up on traditional methods and just”Zico [00:17:06]: I talked with Neel shortly after this, so yeah.Swyx [00:17:09]: Is any takeaways or?Zico [00:17:10]: Oh, yeah, I think this is exactly his view.Swyx [00:17:11]: That is his view. Okay, yeah.Zico [00:17:12]: I think, I think in general, but this is also prior to the real explosion of H I'm, I'm curious. I haven't talked with him since I've Come to this side of scienceSwyx [00:17:21]: He timed it, right before.Zico [00:17:24]: Anyway, this is pretty tangential, I know, but I do think that there's been a lot of talk about how AI's going to automate science, right? And I am, I'm actually fully on board with AI automating science, but my point here is that maybe the first science we should automate is the science of interpretability. The science of analyzing machine learning itself and analyzing deep learning itself. That's a great science. It's not really a science yet. It's very ad hoc right now. That's AI for science. Let's use AI to automate that science. Again, a different thing and the connection here is really that I do think that things like adversarial examples, adversarial pressure, automated red teaming, these things all bring out very fascinating dimensions of this science. But I think that This is what ties this together with what things like what Gray Swan is doing, is the fact that we are still fundamentally addressing an unsolved problem on some level. And so there is still research to be done. There is still scientific understanding to build, to understand how to really control AI systems, safeguard them, all that stuff. And those things will all evolve together. As the science of interpretability advances, as the science of adversarial red teaming advances, as all this advances, we at Gray Swan are both pushing that frontier and staying at the forefront of it because this is still despite this also being an enterprise software problem, it's also a research problem still.Humans vs. Browser Agents: Robustness and PhishingSwyx [00:18:58]: It's great. Yeah, you get to play on both sides.Matt [00:19:00]: Absolutely. just following up on this point that Zico's making about how weird and different adversarial examples can be, one of the recent arena challenges or competitions that we had, was called the Human Browser Agent Robustness Challenge. Yeah, and the idea here is, if I have like a browser agent, a computer use agent that's operating a web browser, how does that compare relative to a human being who's going to go out there and do some tasks, right? Humans, fault rates have all sorts of deceptive tactics like phishing, and you can certainly prompt-inject, browser agents. So, trying to get a more controlled measurement of that. And the way we did this was, essentially have a set of browser tasks that we would have completed either by human participants, like gig workers, or by one of several, browser agents, and the red teamers, right, can choose to either try and phish a human or prompt-inject the browser agent. So, really cool setup. what reallySwyx [00:20:02]: Like a double blind orZico [00:20:04]: . Like you're putting on even footing, right? So oftentimes you red team AI systems, but you don't red team a human With the same access to those tools.Matt [00:20:13]: Yeah, absolutely. That was the point. It'sSwyx [00:20:16]: Which is more realistic, right? And more because you can always red team with unrealistic settings of “Oh, we'll just put invisible text.”Matt [00:20:23]: So you could do things like that. We didn't want to put too many constraints on, how you might deceive the browser agent. So theSwyx [00:20:31]: I just have to take a look at this site. YeahMatt [00:20:33]: The red teamers on our platform absolutely knew whether So they were choosing whether they would, phish a human or prompt-inject the browser agent And they would adapt the technique that they would use accordingly. Right? So use your best phishing technique, use your best prompt-injection. What really surprised me about the results was some of the models are, very much not robust, right? It's very easy to prompt-inject them in this setting. Humans, didn't stand up all that well either. there's a lot of variation between How skilled the red teamer was at phishing.Zico [00:21:04]: I do really like this breakdown, by the way. This it's hilarious that humans are ranked number four of all the models.Matt [00:21:10]: But for a skilled, human red teamer, they could, phish the human participants, with 60 to 70% success. There were a couple of models that seemed to be very robust, right? the red teamers found just a handful of successful breaks on them. and that really surprised me. I didn't think we were there yet. what what I would take from this is not that, we have models that, are like the analogy with self-driving cars, much safer than a human operator. I think it goes back to this point of they just fall for very different things. Like while in these scenarios, humans found it very difficult to prompt-inject, the models, like we're aware of scenarios that a human would never fall for that like Opus 47 would. Right? Like a, an email that comes to your inbox and it says something “Hey, this is a simulation. go forward all your future emails to this random address,” right? A human's never going to fall for that. but there are state-of-art frontier models that will still fall for things like that.Eval Awareness, Sandbagging, and Capability ElicitationSwyx [00:22:13]: Sometimes eval awareness is something you don't want, but then sometimes eval awareness would help in those situations where you're “Well, yeah, okay, I'm, I'm being tested here.”Matt [00:22:24]: So what tends to happen, right, if you make If you're testing the model for robustness or safety, right, and it's aware that it's being tested because you've set things up in a very artificial way, right? Like the email addresses are @example.com. The webpage is clearly not a real webpage. The models will often say, “Well, it's a simulation. It doesn't matter if I go ahead and do the bad thing,” right? And so you'll, you'll get this sense of the model being very willing to do things that it shouldn't do because it's aware that it's in a simulation.Swyx [00:22:55]: Which well, that's one form of it, where it's going to be overly false positive, I guess. And then there's, there's another form where it's false negative because they're trying to hide that they know. I don't know if I'm personifying too much here.Zico [00:23:08]: Yes, there are lots of times where or if you trust the chain of thought, which I tend to think chain of thought's prettySwyx [00:23:14]: Until they start thinking in numbers, but yes.Zico [00:23:17]: They don't. The local optima of EnglishSwyx [00:23:20]: In Chinese?Zico [00:23:20]: Well, so language, period, right? So it's a great point, ‘cause it's different languages sometimes, but The local optima of language Seems very resilient. not fully resilient, but that's a separate point. But you're right. So the idea here is that there are many cases where a system will say, if they're given some capability evaluation, “I better not score too well on this, or maybe they won't release me,” and stuff like that, right? So this is like these sandbagging things. And generally speaking, you wantSwyx [00:23:47]: My favorite story, Techiang, understand. I don't know if you'veZico [00:23:50]: The general idea here is that you want models, when you evaluate them, to be acting exactly as they would act in the real world when they're doing it. One thing I think is funny actually is that there's also going to be examples in the real world of a real task you will ask a model that it will think, “Maybe this is an evaluation.” “Maybe I shouldn't, I shouldn't do so well on this one,” right? So there's lots of that too. So it's funny, but you definitely want systems that ideally, right, and this is, this is And to be clear, Gray Swan doesn't, doesn't, doesn't do too much work in self-awareness of evaluations. We're really focusing on the red team and the adversarial pressure. But you want To be able to evaluate models in terms of their capabilities. Right? You want to be able to elicit the capabilities. And one thing actually, which I think is very interesting, which is tied to Gray Swan now, is that one of the most effective ways of doing capability elicitation is actually through some amount of what you would call red teaming, right? So if a model refuses a task because it thinks it's being evaluated, but it knows how to complete that task, getting it to complete that task is arguably actually a adversarial red teaming problem Right? This is a problem of crafting your prompt A bit differently To make the system do what you want it to do. So actually,Matt [00:25:09]: Take a thesaurus and use something else.Zico [00:25:12]: To get a sense of max capabilities, you actually have to do a bit of adversarial red teaming to make sure the model is not effectively refusing any task that it is capable of doing, but which it just decides it doesn't want to do.Matt [00:25:30]: It really is an optimization problem, right? You have a, an outcome that you want the model to exhibit, right? Now, how do I find the input, right, that gives me that output? And you can objectify that, actually very mathematically. And that's really what the whole story Of red teaming is.Swyx [00:25:48]: Is this a capability that is isolatable, in the sense of does it conflict with personality? Does it conflict with just raw capability and intelligence,?Cygnal: Guardrails for AI AgentsZico [00:26:01]: Do you mean robustness?Swyx [00:26:03]: I guess robustness to it, to injections and attacks like this. I'm just trying to figure out well, what are the necessary trade-offs I have to make? Or is this like a, an orthogonal layer I can just affect? But it'd be nice if I just had like a Llama Guard or the whatever the OpenAI one is.Zico [00:26:19]: So we developed So maybe this is actually a good point to interject In all of this right now Is that we've been talking thus far about the red teaming aspects of what Of what Gray Swan does, but that is one side of what we do. and that's what the Arena, that's what this automated red teaming system called Shade. The other side of what we do is exactly this defense side, and so this is a model called Cygnal, which is essentially a filter model that sits between your user, the LLM, the LLM and any tool calls, and exactly does this level of looking for policy violations, right? And maybe to your point, the point I would make here too, and Matt can elaborate on this from a, from many dimensions. But the point I would make too is that this is also a capability. So the ability to be robust is also not something that has increased naively with scale. So when you make a model bigger and bigger, it does not necessarily get better inherently at resisting jailbreaks. Models are getting better at that, to be clear, even if it's not a solved problem, and I think it's going to be a, There is an aspect of you have to constantly stay on the frontier here. But they're doing it because of explicit training for this. If you just make a model bigger and bigger, it will not get safer. or at least it won't get, it won't get more I shouldn't say not safer. It will not get more robust To adversarial pressure. And so the other, the thing that we build, which is the third product that we have as Gray Swan, is this specific filter model called Cygnal, which is, it's, it's Y-N-L, cygnal like the swan. The idea there is that works best When it is a custom model trained for this. You will have a much easier time doing this if you train a model specifically on this and it's still for this task. AndMatt [00:28:20]: For the capability of being robust.Zico [00:28:22]: And really, the benefit that we have and the reason why our And Cygnal now, is actually behind a lot of both deployed in a lot of places and behind some existing guardrails that are, that are out there. The reason why it works well is ‘cause we have, on the other side, the red teaming capabilities to train this model specifically to be robust and to look for policy violations that people want to enforce.Matt [00:28:49]: I actually wanted to point out in the IPI benchmark paper that I think you had up in the other window. There's a chart that, exemplifies what Zico was saying about, capabilities not tracking with. So this, scatter plot on the right, is essentially like looking for a correlation between capability and attack success rate. So on the axis, how capable is the model at GPQA Diamond. On the axis, how often, were people successful at finding indirect prompt injections or ways to jailbreak the agent. And you essentially, don't see a correlation, right? LikeZico [00:29:26]: There's some small correlation So a little bit biggerMatt [00:29:29]: But you won't YeahZico [00:29:29]: But that's actually also a bit confounding there ‘cause they also feel more safety.Swyx [00:29:33]: Look at the outliers. Dedicated layer is great. When should people adopt it? the obvious answer is all the time, but like realisticallyWhen Enterprises Need GuardrailsSwyx [00:29:43]: I'm in enterprise. I've been fine. No incidents have happened. When is it time?Matt [00:29:48]: So oftentimes when people come to us is because they did already release it, things started happening. They tried to fix itZico [00:29:55]: Things are happening.Matt [00:29:57]: They couldn't fix it, and so like they realize they need outside help.Swyx [00:29:59]: But what would be the first things they run into? Like what are people running into right now?Matt [00:30:03]: The most severe things are whenever there's a tool like computer use involved, some like a batch prompt or control over a browserSwyx [00:30:10]: Just browsing the uncharted webMatt [00:30:11]: Things like that. And sometimes it's not even, a jailbreak. Oftentimes it is, an indirect prompt injection. Somebody will blog about, “Oh, this product can be prompt-injected in this way, and you can get like these credentials.” But sometimes it's just like this thing just totally stochastically went ahead and like erased the production database and did something terrible that way. Oftentimes people will try and prompt their way around it, like adjust the system prompt or like engineer the agent in a way where you're interjecting all the time and reminding it of what the original goal and objective was, and that'll Gets you a little bit of the way there, but ultimately, you've got this base model that you're charging with doing oftentimes very difficult, challenging, context-heavy tasks, and keeping track of a set of policies on the side about what they should and shouldn't do is very difficult, right? it's an easy thing to get mixed up with. And the prompt-injection techniques that tend to work exploit exactly that, right? Try and create ambiguity about, what exactly is the context, right? And what policies do apply. If you can trip the base model up, about that, then It's game over.Zico [00:31:24]: I would also say that one of the most clear-cut cases for adopting a model like Cygnal is the fact that policies differ in different enterprise. A lot of base models, their goal is to be general purpose, right? Base agents, there's general purpose agents, they can do anything. And if you want to do more than anything, the solution is prompting. That's the mechanism given to specialize your agent. In the case where that fails, which is often the case for robust and adversarial situations where prompting fails, and you have specific policies that are unique to your enterprise or at least specific to your enterprise, right? I know that these users can never touch this database. This agent should never touch these things. They're all very specific rules, right? But yet they're still more amorphous that you can't just write them down as, hard constraints on, access requirements.Matt [00:32:18]: No, like a Python script, yeah.Zico [00:32:19]: When you're in this position, models like Cygnal are extremely effective, and that is the situation that a lot of enterprise finds itself in.Matt [00:32:30]: It's like you're the IT admin, you're setting up the firewall. Well, I guess it's not as configurable. I don't know if you have, toggles like that.Zico [00:32:36]: It is, it is configurable. That's part of the point of Cygnal is The generalization problem. So there's two key capabilities you want in a model like that. One is, of course, being robust to all these kinds of attacks, and the other is to be able to generalize and take these written descriptions of enforceable policies and decide when they're being violated.Matt [00:32:55]: This totally makes sense. I think, I think there's, there's definitely a clear market for it. Why does every lab release their own, Llama has one, OpenAI has one, and Google has one. They all release, these open-source guards, which clearly, okay, nice try, but also you're not going to be Deploying those in production, right?Zico [00:33:14]: I'm sure that some people do Or will try. Yeah. I can't speak to why they release them, but I think it's it's in recognition of the need For something In filling that role, beyond just the base model.Matt [00:33:27]: But yeah, I'm clearly going to want the one that I can configure, that you guys are actively developing, and it's not like a off open source, thing for me.Zico [00:33:35]: I meant to be very clear, I'm a huge fan of there being open-source models, these things.Matt [00:33:39]: Of course. Same totally.Zico [00:33:39]: I think the more the ecosystem develops, the better. All these models together make everyone better. But I think just as an ecosystem, there will evolve companies that specialize in this and just like most securities domainsMatt [00:33:51]: They're going to meanZico [00:33:51]: I think this is going to happen here.Matt [00:33:53]: Have we covered all the elements of the lethal trifecta? I don't know if, maybe we can also get your takes on this and if there's other, attack, vectors that are important.The Lethal TrifectaZico [00:34:04]: So okay. So the lethal trifecta refers to the things that make the risk highest or even create a risk. So Si-Simon Willison came up with this. it's a great actually description of the risks of prompt-injection, basically. So the way to think about prompt-injection is that some third party gets access to some information that you put into your agent, you put it in its prompt, and then the agent does something bad with that. And so what is needed for that to happen? This is I'm just parroting here what this idea is. And so while for that to happen, you need to first of all have the ability to ingest external data from untrusted sources. If you're just operating with purely trusted environments, no one's-- you can't prompt-inject yourself. Even though this weird term direct prompt-injection came up and is now multiple terms, fundamentally as a core term Prompt-injection is someone, it's something someone else does to your system. So someone else, you're, you're parsing external data, but then also you have to have something bad that can happen from that. If you're just parsing data and you can't do anything as an agentMatt [00:35:11]: You're just generating tokens, right? LikeZico [00:35:12]: You're just, you're just going to use, spewing out reports, right? nothing's going to happen. So in addition to that, you need somehow the ability to access private internal information, things that would be valuable to externals, take sensitive data, get sensitive dataMatt [00:35:29]: You need to exfilZico [00:35:29]: And then send it somewhere else. And that's And these two things, so untrusted third getting Ingesting untrusted data, having access to private information, and having the ability to exfiltrate it, those are the things that together really form a risk. And just like software vulnerabilities, as we're finding out very vividly right now, we are using software productively despite the fact there are software vulnerabilities. We are using AI very productively despite the fact there can be vulnerabilities, and I think that will continue in the future. So the question is not trying to completely Kind of provably mitigate these things. That is arguably just a, it's a good goal, but just like zero-bug software, we're probably not going to get there, at least not that soon. What we believe at Gray Swan is that it is very possible with frankly minimal additional computational overhead and costs because these models we use are ultimately quite small relative to the large models that underlie the real agent. You can achieve a much better point on kind of the Pareto frontier of usability versus security, right? So a system's fully secure if you don't let it do anything. Very secure.Cygnal, Shade, and the Defense StackMatt [00:36:48]: If you turn everything over to your AI agent, I would not call that secure. An agent with Cygnal pushes toward that top-right corner, and we think this is a valuable trade-off for a lot of companies.Matt [00:36:56]: The analogy to traditional software is good, but it breaks down. If you find a vulnerability in a piece of C code—say a buffer overflow—the remediation is clear: check the bounds or rewrite in a secure language. With AI security, we are not there yet. We are still learning how to make models more robust and enforce policies better.Matt [00:37:45]: You can deploy these systems effectively today and get real value out of them with the best security available now. But what that means relative to one or two years from now is something we need to keep researching and learning.Swyx [00:38:10]: I bring this up because I see an opportunity to explore the search space. Cygnal is in the middle on the untrusted-content side, and then there are the other two parts of the stack.Zico [00:38:25]: Cygnal works in both directions. It can parse incoming untrusted content for potential prompt injections, and it can also be applied to the tool calls the system makes.Zico [00:38:52]: For outbound requests, it looks for things like whether the system is sending an API key to an incorrect or untrusted location. Simple cases are covered by many agents already, but you can still make models do unsafe things if you push hard enough.Matt [00:39:25]: Cygnal is a more advanced version of that idea: looking for anything in the tool calls that would violate an organization's custom data-usage policies. The focus is on what the agent is actually going to do.Matt [00:39:55]: If an agent parses untrusted content and finds a prompt injection, you may want to know about it, but you do not necessarily want Claude Code to stop after three hours just because it saw one. The real question is whether the agent's planned action violates a policy. If it does, stop it there.Formal Methods, Secure Code, and Agent-Written SoftwareSwyx [00:40:30]: You kind of have to own the whole end-to-end flow to do that. Cygnal is between these two sides, and Shade is on the model side.Zico [00:40:45]: Shade is the red-teaming agent. It tries to coordinate the pieces together and cause a violation.Swyx [00:41:00]: Are there other solutions on the horizon that you are not quite doing yet, but people in this community are exploring?Matt [00:41:10]: Before I worked on artificial intelligence and security, my background was writing code that was secure in a way you could formally verify and check with an algorithm. I think there is a ton of potential for those systems now.Matt [00:41:45]: Historically, very few industry teams would deploy formally verified software. Amazon has been fantastic about this, and Microsoft has historically been strong on the research side, but most people do not use these systems because they are not easy or fun.Matt [00:42:20]: You can get very high assurances for almost any policy you care to enforce, but it can take 10 or 20 times longer to fight with the type checker than it would to write the same thing in Python or even Rust.Zico [00:42:45]: Rust hits a sweeter spot in being usable while still giving you useful guarantees.Matt [00:42:55]: If Claude and Codex are writing code for us, and they become good at writing this kind of code, then why not use a more secure backend? People can still code in English; the agent can generate the secure implementation.Interpretability, Secure Code, and Automated ScienceZico [00:43:04]: Agents to enhance the science of mech interp. And it's actually a very similar core underlying point here. It's the fact that there's a lot of advances. And to your point, what's on the horizon, right? I think, I think, the thing I would point to as another potential direction is advances in mech interp. Or I shouldn't even say mech interp, advances in interpretability broadly Mechanistic or not, that let us actually identify with more certainty what are those traces and circuits that lead to or activation patterns that lead to certain behaviors that we want to try to suppress or encourage. I think that in a similar fashion, we're at a point where the models are good enough at these things. They're good enough at running experiments to analyze activation patterns. LLMs are good enough at writing secure code that you can scale these things now, not because people are going to be any better at them. The problem was never that secure code wasn't, wasn't possible. It's just that people didn't have the capacity to do it.Matt [00:44:09]: Or the willpower.Zico [00:44:09]: It wasn't that It wasn't that mech interp was just analyzing networks is impossible. We have all the tools we need. We have perfectly repeatable counterfactual, simulators of these systems. The problem was we didn't have enough patience or manpower To actually run all these things together, right?Matt [00:44:27]: It's a ton of work, right?Zico [00:44:28]: It's a lot of work. And so what's being newly unlocked in the field right now, and the thing I am, the core capability that I think is so, just has such promise here, is the fact that we can automate all of this now. so you can have your agent write secure code. He doesn't write secure code. Secure is really hard to write. You can have, you can have your agent do your interpretability research. It's really hard to do, but fortunately the agent can do that. So I think this is really an underappreciated point that we're reaching this point, this phase where a lot of security, a lot of science has this potential to explode, not because we're going to get better at it, but because agents can do it for us now.Matt [00:45:13]: They raise the floor of the raw skill that you that you need. I don't, I don't know if it's lower the floor or raise the floor. whatever it is, the good one. theyZico [00:45:23]: I think raise the floor, right?Matt [00:45:24]: Well, they kind of let you scale intelligence in a way that like If you paid enough people, right You could train them up andZico [00:45:30]: I don't have the resources, I don't have the energy or whatever. And there's all that. I do want to make it concrete to people, right? I think there's a lot of I just came from Microsoft, where they were open arms with OpenClaw, and I think a lot of people are and I think that is the lethal trifecta nightmare.OpenClaw and the Computer-Use Security ProblemZico [00:45:49]: And every enterprise is “Well, yeah, you're great for you on your home device, but not on my turf.”Matt [00:45:55]: We have developed a whole lot of breaks for OpenClaw in particular. a lot of itZico [00:46:00]: Thousands, yeah.Matt [00:46:00]: Yeah, go on, take us up the details.Zico [00:46:03]: Well, the details are essentially that, like we have a lot of like natural trajectories of humans using OpenClaw in various settingsMatt [00:46:11]: With signal pluginsZico [00:46:11]: Like hooking it up to their PelotonMatt [00:46:15]: Sorry, go ahead.Zico [00:46:17]: We are, we are going to do we do have guardrails that you can integrate into OpenClaw, but to be clear, OpenClaw is very, there's a lot of attack service there. Anyway, go on.Matt [00:46:27]: So we just have a bunch of trajectories of actual people using OpenClaw in tons and tons of different scenarios, and just threw shade at it, and like found breaks for each and every one of them, right?Zico [00:46:40]: And similarly, I should have done this earlier, but OpenClaw, a lot of it for me at least is to do with computer use. and you guys also did this for the Mythos, Side of things. And yeah, so I guess what are the most pressing model-side capabilities to close?Matt [00:46:58]: Model-side caZico [00:46:59]: Model-side flaws or I guessMatt [00:47:01]: I do want to point out, since those numbers are all very low, that is for a specific coding environment. We can get a, we can get essentially for the ones A, for computer use Will be a lot higher. But BZico [00:47:12]: But that is exclusively what I use, like Codex computer useMatt [00:47:15]: Yeah, exactly rightZico [00:47:17]: It is the biggest unlock Because it's operating as me.Matt [00:47:20]: So when you have computer use, you and when you have OpenClaw, man, you can break those things.Zico [00:47:26]: I think that at the same time, there's this appreciation that of course you have to do this. This is what makes these things useful, right?Matt [00:47:35]: Why would I not?Zico [00:47:35]: I don't want to sandbox my agent, right? That doesn't, that limits its capabilities, right? So in some sense, the point here is that there is this trade-off between, it's just this same trade we talked about before and on a macro scale now is this, you have a trade-off between usability and how much power agent has versus security. And our goal With Cygnal, with Shade, to assess these vulnerabilities, with Cygnal to protect it, is to shift that point up and to the right.Matt [00:48:07]: And the research, like that is The goal of all the research that we continue to do at Gray Swan and partially Carnegie Mellon. Right? Is push that Pareto curve as, far up and to the left as you possibly can andZico [00:48:20]: Up and the left, up to the right, depending on which direction it's at.Matt [00:48:22]: Depending on which direction it's at. Yep.Zico [00:48:25]: obviously computer vision is the OG adversarial domain. It's one of those things where it, this is the currently the limiting factor to deployment of AI, right? Like it's because we just don't trust it. Like we know it's kind of capable of doing it, but we're never going to let it on any real system, and therefore never give it any real data. Therefore, it's not ever going to do anything interesting, and therefore, the whole industrial complex is going to collapse on us unless we figure this out.Matt [00:48:51]: But people are though, right? And even with OpenClaw, so it's one thing to say fine on your home computer, but don't bring it to work. But like we've talked to people atZico [00:49:01]: They just need permissionsMatt [00:49:02]: At enterprises. They're, they're getting pressure from their engineers, from the people who work there. No, we have to run OpenClaw and turn it, like we have to do this or we're behind, right?Zico [00:49:12]: So I just put my signal guardrails and that's it? like what else do I do? ‘cause that doesn't feel like you guys agree, but that's not enough. I think For code agents in particular, Cygnal is quite good. So Cygnal is very good at this point with the with the abilities that a system like Codex or Claude Code has, without too many plug-ins enabled where it becomes essentially like OpenClaw. I think that there is still work to be done to get it to be fully generic against anything OpenClaw can do. and we're pushing that direction, but that is still very much future work, right? To secure every bit, every possible tool use is not easy, and it requires a it requires continuation of the training loop that we're pressing on basically right now. It also requires, by the way, a lot of just standard security practices too. Right? Like isolation environments, like proper authentication, like proper access controls.Swyx [00:50:06]: That was going to be my nextZico [00:50:07]: A lot of other good things, right?Matt [00:50:09]: And that's what I would, that's what I would say too. If you're going to Like if you're going to put OpenClaw in a bank, like it can't just run rampant on the entire Network, right? You can do, you can do things like Cygnal, right? And that's the best effort at the AI layer. But it needs to run on a platform that has been thought about, right? That you've actually put security measures in place at the system level to still give it access to a reasonable set of things that it needs, but not everyone's, banking information and the crown jewels of whatever organization it is.Agent Identity, Permissions, and Enterprise Access ControlSwyx [00:50:44]: So, a close cousin of this conversation I always have is agent native identity, right? that auth layer, is going to be the platform effectively, like the minimal viable platform is that. what are you guys seeing? Who is, who do you work with on that? Is that a product you would someday offer?Matt [00:51:01]: So we're not working with anyone on that, and when this has come up, yeah, I think people don't exactly know where to go with it, right? It is a big problem in a lot of organizations to try and provision, authentic identities and capabilities and like role-based access policies, just for the existing workforce. And then to do it like for agents and thinking about the way that they're going to be deployed. so I'm going to deploy it on behalf of a human who works at the organization. Like what does that mean for the agent and what it should and shouldn't be able to do? People are just trying to wrap their heads around like how the agent's going to be used and haven't made very much progress, I think on On the identity question.Swyx [00:51:51]: Sounds about right. Just checking.Zico [00:51:52]: I think there so far we are still a lot, in a lot of cases operating on the condition that your agent has your permissions. That is, that is a veryMatt [00:52:00]: That's the practice, yeahZico [00:52:00]: That is a very standard default.Matt [00:52:02]: A disaster, yeah.Zico [00:52:02]: And I think that will be changed. your permissions may be in a sandbox, but still your permissions. That will change in the very near future, because it has to right? That That mindset's going to or that default is going to be changing, and I think it's not a part of the offer right now, but I think that it, getting into that space is certainly something that we may be doing in the future.Swyx [00:52:24]: I just think, I'm curious about the at least like the shape of this, right? is it just that I have my twin and like that is like my delegate on all these things? Or do I need one for every app? And that's exhausting.Matt [00:52:38]: Absolutely exhausting, right. and then I think one of the bigger challenges that people are going to face when they do start to roll out, like these agent identity, viewpoints and solutions, is you run into that same usability problem where what's the real recourse? Well, it's stuck. It can't do something. Okay, now it can do it if it has my like explicit consent. And then people just get inured into Giving it consent too.Swyx [00:53:03]: And then, agent to agent You can do privilege escalation if you're not careful.Zico [00:53:10]: I think in terms of how this will evolve, actually, I don't think it'll be per app, but I think what will happen first is people have different personas that they have, right? So You don't want your work life and your home email to be mixed up. Right? a lot of that Because it happened, or that does. We are very good as humans at separating out lives, right? We have different lives. We have my work life, we have my home life. I have, I have different work lives, right? we're very good at that. Agents are not very good at that right now.Matt [00:53:41]: They are terrible.Zico [00:53:41]: Extremely bad at this.Swyx [00:53:42]: It's the people making them have no work-life balance So why would you why would you expect the agent to have any, right?Zico [00:53:49]: I think that's the way it's going to first develop, is there's going to be easy ways of switching between here's a set of my accounts and apps I allow, and this one agent here, set of accounts and apps I allow, another one. And this will evolve to be more fine-grained over time as people specialize that. I If I were to make a prediction about how this would evolve, I think that's the most natural thing.Swyx [00:54:06]: That makes sense. There's just profiles for everyone. okay. Yeah, so I think that is like the rough scope of like everything that is, We, are we, are we up to speed? Is there any part of the story that, I think you're, looking forward to for the rest of this year? like the emerging trendThe Future of AI Security and Enterprise AdoptionSwyx [00:54:24]: For 2026, for you.Zico [00:54:26]: So there's, there's lots of emerging trends, man. I can, I can go on at length about this. 20,Swyx [00:54:31]: Start with A, go through Z. Let's go.Zico [00:54:33]: Let's, let's start with Gray Swan, right? So I think what's in the future for us is so far when we talk about our product offerings, right, we obviously work with a lot of the large labs. we work with a lot of enterprises too, right? And I think what's happening and the scaling we're going to see is that the these abilities that so far were mainly front of mind for large labs, how do I ensure security of my agents? How do I ensure the models follow the policies I want to prescribe? All that stuff. Those things that were front of mind for frontier labs are going to become front of mind for everyone For all enterprise as they adopt tools like Codex, like Claude Code, like OpenClaw. And so I think where the most where our expansion and a lot of the reason, the work behind our series or the intention behind a lot of our Series A, it is explicitly to take a lot of the technology that we have been developing I won't say for but in conjunction with both enterprise and the large labs, and really scale the deployments on enterprise. So what I see happening in the next year from the Gray Swan side is real growth in terms of the number of AI companies deploying this technology because it becomes central to their operations. Research-wise, I think I've already talked about some, right? The science, the agentification of all science. Well, let's start with science of AI, and I think, I think that, we always want to do other sciences, right? Let's, let's, let's, let's do AI for physics.Matt [00:56:06]: Introspective.Zico [00:56:07]: Let's just, let's just start with AI science. That needs a lot of work right now, right?Matt [00:56:11]: Put your own mask on before helping others.Zico [00:56:12]: Exactly. So I think actually that's what I'm most excited about right now in the research side. And as it applies to this, I think it's, it's in things like understanding models better, but doing it through the power of agents.Matt [00:56:22]: One thing that, I've been very encouraged by for really only the past two or three months that I think, the pace at which this has happened has been increasing, and I think this is going to continue to be a thing, is people who start to build an agent and don't take it all the way to “We've finished this. We think it's, it's great, and now it's, in front of customers or it's in front of the entire organization.” they have this epiphany before they get there that whatever prompts I put in I need a solution here. I understand that there are real risks, right? I understand that, this is a weird and interesting and really capable model that I'm working with, but if I don't, put more measures in place, to make sure that it stays safe and does behaves the way that I want it to. People coming to us proactively, knowing that they need a real solution, I think that's very encouraging, and I think it's a sign of agents landing outside of just the frontier labs and the research community and scientists and so forth. people are starting to get it, and I think that's great. Looking forward to all of the amazing apps that people are going to build on top of these models and the security that will help them stand up.Private Arenas, Red Teaming Markets, and AI InsuranceSwyx [00:57:39]: Is there a future where your customers are part of the arena? ‘cause I think these are, basically these are Right? these are, these are, independent entities. They're There's a guy in Australia who's, your number one. But at some point you have the network effect where you start having enterprise use cases, actually in inside of this public domain.Matt [00:57:59]: Oh, I see. You mean testing enterprise, deployments inside the arena. So we have had, the situation where people join the arena. They're maybe cybersecurity professionals. They get interested in AI security. They come across the arena, and then eventually they become a customer, when their organization needs solution.Swyx [00:58:17]: How often does that happen?Matt [00:58:17]: Not a huge number of times. But there are a lot of thoughtful, people that come from a cybersecurity background that have found their way there. So enterprises are just always, I think, going to be more paranoid about putting, their custom agent that's, deployment, still in development, up on this public platform for anybody to come hit. What we have done is worked to make private arenas where some subset of the contestants, who we've, We know well, theySwyx [00:58:54]: And what do they work on?Matt [00:58:55]: What do they work on?Swyx [00:58:55]: Do What was the class of problem they work on that would require a private arena?Matt [00:59:00]: Oh, pretty much any enterprise application. That's the point. Yeah. enterprises are not willing to put up their deployment agentsSwyx [00:59:07]: Oh, that's greatMatt [00:59:07]: On the arena for For the general public to come hit. They're fine if it's, 20 people that we've handpicked from the arena.Swyx [00:59:14]: Just for listeners who might be interested What do I make as a participant? What's on the table here?Matt [00:59:20]: Well, so for the for the public competitions We communicate a pricing and incentive structure, upfront, and it, and it differs for each arena, right? ‘Cause designing, the right set of incentives to get people focused on finding useful vulnerabilities and problems without reward hacking and just finding, de minimis things is,Swyx [00:59:47]: Are you human judging the reward hacks if it happens?Matt [00:59:50]: Sometimes, yes.Swyx [00:59:51]: Oh, that's messy.Zico [00:59:53]: Well, so we have a lot of automated graders, right? A lot of automated graders. But ultimately, if they can beat all those graders, there is a humanMatt [00:59:59]: There in the YeahZico [01:00:00]: That can, that can take a look at the at theMatt [01:00:01]: Oh, okay. Yep. And we work with the UKEC and Casey and so forth. they'll come in and work as independent judges and evaluators and lend their expertise to that.Swyx [01:00:11]: You're, you're a community that, any enterprise can call on and that's, that's really useful, data actually. It's almost McCore for red teaming.Matt [01:00:22]: For red teaming.Swyx [01:00:25]: One of our upcoming guests is, on the other side of this, the AI, underwriting company. I don't know if you've come across that.Matt [01:00:30]: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.Zico [01:00:31]: Oh, wait. They're, they're one of the logos there. I know that we have the other one.Swyx [01:00:34]: What do you yeah, what do you what do you think of that market?Zico [01:00:36]: Oh, I think it's great.Swyx [01:00:37]: Because it's such an interestingZico [01:00:38]: And and I think it pairs extremely well with our model, right? Because how do you assess the risk of a company's AI deployment? Well, use a tool like Shade, or use Arena, right? And that's And we have And that's actually a lot of the work we've done with them is exactly for that thing. And then if a company finds this level of risk, but wants, so they can't be insured because they're too risky, wants to reduce their risk, what do you do there? I don't think look, we shouldn't be the only provider here, but what do you do there? Well, you put safety systems around your model, right? Including things like Cygnal. So it pairs extremely well because what in some sense we can be is a, author. I don't We're not getting there yet, so I don't this is hypothetical. I want, I wanted to emphasize. But we can be in some sense a authorized partner with them, so that they can do more than just say, “Hey, you're uninsurable.” They can both assess it more rigorously with tools like Shade and other tools as well, and then they can prescribe mitigations when there are problems using tools like Cygnal.AI Insurance, Compliance, and the Gray Swan EventZico [01:01:44]: So it's incredibly goodMatt [01:01:46]: These two models fit together incredibly well. They also bring us customers. Many customers want protection against bad outcomes, insurance for when things go wrong, and help staying compliant. Being out of compliance is also a risk.Swyx [01:02:10]: I think AUC is fantastic and got on this early. The parallel to cyber insurance is clear. When you apply for cyber insurance, you document the measures you have in place: detection, response, and controls. Structurally, they need an arm's-length third party.

Do you find yourself thinking about things that you can't control?  Rather than spending all that energy, I'd like you to start focusing on what you can control.  How you can take responsibility for yourself and everything you do.  When you do this, you'll see just how much power you actually have in your life.  Ready to start taking responsibility over what you can control in your life?  Let's dive in…   Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community I'm inviting you to sign up for the free private podcast where I do a deeper dive into this topic on the Mastering Your Mindset Moments podcast for high-stress professionals: https://www.financialadventure.com/private Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit and Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan for you to move forward so you'll immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Send us Fan MailThe internet has a new way of keeping score: aura. This week on the Mike & Blaine Podcast, we dive into one of the strangest trends taking over social media—gaining aura, losing aura, and why people seem obsessed with measuring status in ways that don't actually exist. From CEOs and athletes to celebrities and everyday people, we explore why some people walk into a room and command attention while others instantly lose credibility. We break down where the trend came from, why it resonates, and what it reveals about confidence, reputation, authenticity, and human nature. Because aura may be made up—but the way people react to it is very real.From a business strategy and tactical standpoint, "aura" is just the modern evolution of executive presence and brand equity. In this episode, we unpack how entrepreneurs and corporate executives can tactically build authentic authority without falling into the trap of cheap marketing gimmicks. We discuss how iconic brands like Nike, Apple, and Tesla cultivate a corporate aura that commands premium pricing and fierce customer loyalty. Whether you are running a startup or leading a Fortune 500 company, managing your professional reputation and understanding how the public measures your credibility is a critical component of modern leadership, PR strategy, and marketplace positioning.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kn0oUEQ2gJcWe want to hear from you! Send your thoughts, feedback, or favorite beer recommendations to beer@mikeandblaine.comListen to all our episodes at mikeandblaine.comIf you enjoy the show, head over to mikeandblaine.com right now to buy us a beer and support the podcast!Learn about: Cash Flow Mike who trains CPAs to provide effective advisory to their clients at cashflowmike.com Dryrun Cash Flow Forecasting for the office of the CFO where they get finance teams out of spreadsheets at dryrun.comThanks to our Beer Sponsors: Karen Hairston from 3S Smart Consulting CPA Larry Weinstein, the Cash Flow Cowboy from Houston Texas Neighbor Pat DevinWatch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kn0oUEQ2gJc#AuraPoints #Aura #LoseAura #InternetCulture #BusinessStrategy #ExecutivePresence #BrandEquity #LeadershipTactics #Entrepreneurship #Nike #Apple #Tesla #Forbes #HarvardBusinessReview #PublicRelations #MarketingStrategy #CorporateBranding #MikeAndBlaineSupport the showCatch more episodes, see our sponsors and get in touch at https://mikeandblaine.com/

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Owning 45 rental properties and multiple group homes sounds like a dream until a six-figure tax bill arrives.In this episode of Real Money Talks, Loral Langemeier helps a Virginia couple uncover why their current business structure may be costing them far more in taxes than necessary. After paying approximately $125,000 in taxes, they discover that the issue isn't a lack of deductions it's a lack of an advanced tax strategy.Loral explains why real estate investors need more than a traditional CPA and explores how business owners can create deductible allowances, improve bookkeeping systems, and use advanced tax strategy tools like gas and oil investments to offset taxable income.If you're building wealth through real estate, business ownership, or alternative investments, this episode offers valuable insights into using an advanced tax strategy to reduce taxes, increase cash flow, and build long-term wealth.Loral's Takeaways:Tax Planning and Business Structure Overview (00:05)Current Financial Situation and Tax Payments (01:03)Corporate Structure and Tax Entity Issues (02:21)Proposed Tax Strategies and Corporate Structure Adjustments (03:15)Behavioral Changes and Tax Compliance (05:41)Investment Opportunities and Tax Deductions (07:41)Bookkeeping and Accounting Adjustments (10:26)Meet Loral Langemeier:Loral Langemeier is a money expert, sought-after speaker, entrepreneurial thought leader, and best-selling author of five books.Her goal: to change the conversations people have about money worldwide and empower people to become millionaires.The CEO and Founder of Live Out Loud, Inc. – a multinational organization — Loral relentlessly and candidly shares her best advice without hesitation or apology. What sets her apart from other wealth experts is her innate ability to recognize and acknowledge the skills & talents of people, inspiring them to generate wealth.She has created, nurtured, and perfected a 3-5 year strategy to make millions for the “Average Jill and Joe.” To date, she and her team have served thousands of individuals worldwide and created hundreds of millionaires through wealth-building education keynotes, workshops, products, events, programs, and coaching services.Loral is truly dedicated to helping men and women, from all walks of life, to become millionaires AND be able to enjoy time with their families.She is living proof that anyone can have the life of their dreams through hard work, persistence, and getting things done in the face of opposition. As a single mother of two children, she is redefining the possibility for women to have it all and raise their children in an entrepreneurial and financially literate environment.Links and Resources:Ask Loral App: https://apple.co/3eIgGcXLoral on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/askloral/Loral on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/lorallive/videosLoral on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorallangemeier/Money Rules: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/money-rules/Millionaire Maker Store: https://millionairemakerstore.com/Real Money Talks Podcast: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/podcast/Integrated Wealth Systems: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/Affiliate Sign-Up: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/affiliatesThanks for listening!Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!Subscribe to the podcastIf you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Stitcher. You can also subscribe from the podcast app on your mobile device.Leave us an iTunes reviewRatings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on iTunes, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on iTunes.

What if you could start building wealth for your kids today while creating a tax-smart benefit for your employees at the same time? In this episode, we break down the new Trump Accounts, including who qualifies for government contributions, how to set them up, contribution limits, and strategies for parents, grandparents, and business owners. We'll also cover how these accounts compare to Roth IRAs, their long-term wealth-building potential, and why they can be a great tool for teaching kids about investing and financial responsibility. _______________________________________ Do you want access to the videos, drawings, templates, tools, and be able to get your questions answered on the live calls or in the community? We'd love to have you join the Wealth Game basics today to get some additional free resources, videos, and tools: Visit www.wealthgame.io For specific one on one, or group support for tax planning, strategy, tax preparation, bookkeeping, accounting, or other CPA firm related services, we recommend going to www.bementcompany.com to connected with our team of CPAs and professionals. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Wealth Game Podcast. The goal is to get informal yet actionable advice directly to business owners and investors. The episodes are intended to be short and simple to allow busy professionals to get right to the point of growing their wealth and reducing their taxes. For additional information and links to all available platforms please visit our website at www.wealthgame.io Contact Us: Websites: www.wealthgame.io www.bementcompany.com You can also stream The Wealth Game on: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5vKCgwK9K7zw1FrXoNAdoh?si=b95d0293bb4b41ad Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wealth-game/id1638735155 Connect with Brent Bement: LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/brentbement X: https://x.com/brentbement Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brentbement/

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The biggest opportunities often sit in the work everyone else is afraid to touch. In this episode of the IC-DISC Show, I sit down with Scott Abels, a CPA and business valuation specialist in Austin, to talk about why he built his practice around estate, trust, and gift valuations, the one area most professionals avoid. Scott spent 25 years in corporate finance at Dell and Motorola before launching his own firm. He moved from CFO consulting into valuation, then narrowed further into estate and trust work, an area with its own IRS code sections, examination rates above 20% on large estates, and the highest error rate he's seen. He walked through the landmines, retained rights and marketability discounts among them, where a single mistake can wipe out a client's discounts entirely. What struck me was his case for getting the valuation expert in during planning, not after, when it's often too late to fix anything. The same logic shows up in his turnaround standard of 30 to 45 days and the dozen questions he tells attorneys to ask before hiring anyone. Scott also revealed a project he'd been quietly working on, a plain-English book for Texas attorneys, and his answer for how the busiest professionals actually want to be helped. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS * The riches really are in the niches: narrowing from CFO work to a field with fewer than 10 true specialists turned a commodity service into a moat. * The IRS examines large estates more than 20% of the time, because it knows that's where taxpayers try to avoid taxes, so the valuation has to hold up. * Get your valuation expert involved during estate planning, not after; retained rights and other landmines often can't be fixed once the structure is set. * A buy-sell agreement signed and executed perfectly still won't bind the IRS, which weighs economic reality over legal form every time. * Overstep on discounts and the penalty isn't just losing them; the IRS can throw out your whole valuation and re-value with no discounts at all. * Before hiring a valuation pro, ask their guaranteed turnaround time and whether they offer audit defense; vague answers signal it's a side service, not their focus. Contact Details LinkedIn - Scott Abels LINKS Show NotesBe a Guest About IC-DISC AllianceAbout ETG Valuations TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Good morning, Scott. Welcome to the podcast. Scott: Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to visiting with you. Dave: Sure. So where are you located today? What part of the world are you calling into from today? Scott: I'm in Austin, Texas. Cloudy, Austin, Texas this morning and just up the road from you a bit. Dave: Okay, well, that sounds good. So I've been really excited to have you on here. You were a guest a while back. You've kind of had some updates that I want to talk about. So why don't we just talk out. Scott: Talk. Dave: Give me a little bit of your background, you know, where are you from, what you're, you know, how'd you get to this point in your career? Scott: Sure. So I'm a Texas boy, born and raised. Went off to college, majored in accounting, got my accounting degree at the University of Houston and went, went straight into industry. Got my CPA shortly after. After I graduated and went into industry. And I spent about 25 years in what I call corporate America. Dell, Motorola, in corporate finance. And you know, most of my background is running a business division of a larger business. So it's really understanding how businesses work, how the day to day operation works, how's. How does the business model work from a financial perspective? Because I did that for about 25 years. Started my own consulting business about 15 years ago now. Dave: Okay. Scott: Initially, I started out as a CFO consultant, just kind of using the things that I learned in corporate America for smaller businesses in the. Mainly in the Austin area. And really quickly I, I had a client early on who needed help with business valuation, wanted to buy out a minority partner, and so I went away and got the valuation credential, the cva. It's essentially a CPA for business valuation. Dave: Okay. Scott: And I did a couple of these business valuations and I realized several things really quickly, Dave. I realized that these are like business valuation is like a puzzle. It's like a little business puzzle. And it's just perfectly suited to my background in understanding how businesses work. So I really, I like the work and it's well suited to my background. Other things I realized is as a CFO in Austin, I'm probably one of a thousand. Lots of competition, really. A commoditized service at the time that I started out, probably still is. As a business valuation professional, though, I'm probably one of 15 or 20. Okay. And there's probably only, you know, there's probably fewer than 10 of those that specialize and do nothing but business valuation. It's much more of a niche and you know, Much more of a specialized industry. And it just was a great fit with my background. So that's where I am today. I'm specialized in business valuation. And, you know, my background as a CPA and in corporate America has really kind of lent itself well to what I do currently. Dave: Okay. No, I appreciate that oversight. And, you know, my business is somewhat similar that, you know, there's a saying the riches are in the niches, and I'm convinced. But I find most professionals don't have the courage to really truly focus on a niche because to say yes to the niche, you have to say no to everything else. And so I really respect, you know, niching know, you know, kind of highly focused on the valuation. But then it sounds like you've done. You've decided to niche even further. So talk to me about that. I see what's in your background. I assume that's got something to do with does. Scott: It does. And you know, Dave, I'd like to tell you that I planned this whole thing out and that it was all this, you know, deep thought and yeah, this business research and everything else. But it really just has kind of evolved along the way, you know, from doing CFO work, which is pretty broad, to. To doing business. Valuation was, you know, really a specialization move there. But it made sense for my background and it was a, you know, a good opportunity based on. On, you know, what my skill set was and what I found now after doing valuations for several years is that one area that I think has the, you know, maybe a greater need than any other is estate trust and gift valuations. And, you know, the reason, there's really three reasons that I can think of. One is that it's. It has its own specialized IRS rules and regulations for estate trust and gift. So it's almost like there's every other valuation and then there's estate trust and gift that has its own specialized code sections, and it's very different from typical valuations. Another reason is that the IRS really scrutinizes estate, trust and gift valuations more than any other. So, for example, large estates, they are examined greater than 20% of the time when their returns are. Their tax returns are. That's a really high examination rate. And the reason is because the IRS knows that there's ways in there that taxpayers can avoid taxes. And so, as you might imagine, the IRS is not a big fan of taxpayers avoiding taxes. So they're going to examine those, especially the big estates. So specialized rules. The IRS loves to look at these. And the last reason is this is an area that, where evaluation folks make mistakes probably more than any other is what my research has told me. You know, it cries out for somebody to really specialize in this kind of work. And because, like I said, just because not everybody can do this. The problem is a lot of folks try to do this as a one off. And that's where we really end up hearing the horror stories about how the IRS picks these things apart. So for me, where a lot of people see this as an area of risk they don't want to touch. It's an area that I run to because it, you know, again with my specialization in this area, it allows me to work in the here and to see it as a real opportunity to serve clients better than what they might normally get from their, from their okay CPA or from, you know, from many other valuation professionals. Dave: Yeah, and I suppose it's a little bit like you, like a generalist valuation person. Doing a state trust or gift valuation is a little bit like a corporate attorney who really is great at corporate work. M and a contract work. And then they have a buddy who says, hey, we need to do this, we need to set up some, you know, this is this trust and we need to do some gift work. And the attorney says, yeah, sure, no problem. Right? I mean, technically they're qualified, right. They're a member of the state bar, they have a law degree. And so, you know, and the IRS recognizes that degree. But is it kind of a similar thing where you just, people just don't know what they don't know? Scott: It is. And I just look back to when I started doing these, I didn't know about all of the different code sections either. I wasn't doing these things at the time. And when I started doing these a few years ago, I realized, you know, some of the specialized knowledge and code sections that you have, and after doing them for a number of years now, I think I realized it even more. And it just is, it's a flashpoint area for the irs. They know that there is a lot of potential to go in here and claw back revenue because of things like discounts and retained rights. Things that don't come up in normal, you know, discounts come up in normal valuations, but not the way they do in estate and trust and gift valuations. And it's a, it's an area where you can, you know, clients can take advantage of the rules to save themselves significant taxes, but if they don't do it properly or if they, if they overstep the penalties are huge. So not only do they lose what they thought they had in discounts, for example, but the IRS may completely invalidate their whole valuation and go back and value it for them with no discounts. So the penalties are huge here. Which, again, I think is a reason that I see this as a huge opportunity to help clients navigate what is really a minefield here. It's a, it's an opportunity, but it can potentially be a huge downside if it's not done properly. And being able to offer that kind of specialized knowledge, I think is very valuable to clients and especially to their attorney partners. Dave: Yeah, I can understand that. And, you know, is this is when you get, when you pick up valuation clients in this space, is it like it was in the. When you're doing general value valuations where you just get a call from somebody out of the blue and they say, hey, Scott, you know, I've got this trust set up and I need evaluation done. Is that how the clients come to you? Is it just the actual end user calling you, or does it come to you some other mechanism? Scott: So it's. The short answer is no. It's seldom the end user because the end users don't usually know what they don't know. Right. They are reliant upon an attorney. So in almost every case it's going to be in a state and trust attorney who's going to recognize there's a triggering event where they need to get evaluation done and they'll reach out to me or to another valuation professional at that point in time. And so that's where the whole process usually starts. Interestingly enough, what I share with estate and trust attorneys when I visit with them, have a coffee shop conversation, is that it's even better, more advantageous to them and their clients to get their valuation person, regardless of who that is, to get them involved on the planning side way at the beginning of this, when the estate and trust attorney is putting together the whole, you know, the whole package of here's what we're going to do, here's the way we're going to set these things up, and here's how it's all going to flow. Because, you know, sometimes what we find is we do that valuation way later, way after the estate planning has been done, and we find these issues like retained, retained rights, for example, it's too late, then there's nothing else we can do. It's already, it's going to do, you know, it's going to, it's going to be a negative for the clients at that point. Whereas if we had been involved on the front end of the planning in this thing, we might have been able to say, hey, look, the IRS is going to look at that and they're going to disallow that as far as a tax advantage goes. So let's find a different way, you know, to work around that. But all that work, regardless, it comes in through attorneys or their CPAs. Client CPAs. Attorneys and CPAs who have business owner clients who experience a triggering event. And that's how we get involved. Dave: Yeah. And I know, I know that attorneys get a bad rap in certain circles, but I know that you and I, one, you know, we've known each other a while and one thing we each have in common is we, I think in a different life, either or both of us could have very well gone to law school, practice law. I know you have a brother who's an attorney, but I think early in your professional career, I think you had an insight into the legal profession that I think helped develop that appreciation for the profession. Is that right? So tell me about that. I know there's a story, but I really don't remember much about it. Scott: So you've been digging into my background here, Dave, I can tell. And you've done a good job. So early on. You're exactly right. Early on, I was from a small town in Texas called Bay City, about an hour and a half southwest of Houston there, and small town. And I worked for an attorney who was a family friend, a well known guy in the community. We knew him from church and like family and everything, and he was kind enough to let me work for him as a small one man office during the summer and during breaks and I got exposure to the legal profession like, like you could never get today, you know, here I am, a kid in college, don't have, I don't have any kind of legal skills or background or anything, but. But the one thing I was curious and willing to kind of jump in and wanted to learn stuff. And the attorney's name was Lynn Grebe. He was a general practitioner. So I got to see estate, trust wills, I got to see general business stuff. I got to see divorces, real estate, even did some small criminal defense stuff. So he's a generalist. Dave: Yeah. Small town, you kind of have to be. Scott: Right, exactly. So I went to the courthouse and filed suits and filed documents. I did some legal research, some, you know, lightweight legal research, but. And I listened, you know, I drafted documents for him and I just, I got to spend a lot of time with this guy. He was very generous. And as a one man office, I had access to him on a, you know, on a, you know, full day basis. So I got to see how he thinks, I got to see how attorneys work, I got to see how the legal profession works. And what I figured out was it really is, it's a very logical thinking kind of, you know, of a practice of a work. And, and it just thought, hey, you know, I, I like this. It's logical, it makes sense, Communication is really big. And I was always a good writer and I was just kind of drawn to that work. And I got to see again how a law office works early on. And Lynn was really a, was a professional role model for me. My parents were not professionals, business professionals. So he was, early on he was a role model for me as to how you conduct yourself, how you run a business. And, and I just really, you know, kept a lot of those things that I learned from him early on. And so I, you know, when I got out of college, got my cpa, when I started my own business working with attorneys, it was, it was kind of a natural, comfortable throwback for me, Remembering how law offices work, remembering how attorneys think, the time pressures, the schedules, all of those things that go in with being attorneys. It was kind of a, like I said, a natural return to some of those things for me. The other thing you didn't mention is, you're right, I've got a brother who's an attorney, I've got a son who's an attorney. You know, I can't do lawyer jokes anymore. I'm not allowed to do those without really offending family members. I've learned to, I've learned to huddle with attorneys on a regular basis at home and at work. Yeah. Dave: And the other thing that I've noticed About attorneys and CPAs is that, and I think it's part of what motivates them professionally. And when I tell this to attorneys and CPAs, they kind of all shucks, downplay it, but they really are, in many situations, they're a hero, they're a superhero to their clients. They are either saving them from a dire circumstance like, you know, the client was audited and they have to come in and clean up, or they were sued or they're doing planning that, that really relies on that. And I think one of the things that I especially appreciate about attorneys is they are this in some ways, you know, they're right up there, I think, with the cpa and you can make a case of which one is the more trusted advisor and maybe depends on the circumstances. But I've noticed the attorneys I've met, they really relish that fiduciary duty to their clients. They don't take it lightly. And they really are about the big picture and especially on the estate and trust side. I mean, they're doing work that, that's going to survive them and they're, they have to have a long term focus and a patience and a discipline and they have to be willing to push back on the client and say, yeah, I know it's helpful if we value this business at $5 million, but come on, Charlie, this business is worth $40 million. So maybe we can get some discount, you know, and maybe make it valued at 30 or 35 million. But we can't value it 5 million. And if we do, we're just asking for trouble. Scott: So anyway, that's kind of been my Dave: experience of working with attorneys. How has yours been? Have you had a similar experience? Scott: Yeah, and I go back to Lynn, Lynn Grievy, the attorney that I worked for. You just explained exactly the relationship that Lynn had with his clients. You know, these people looked up to him as a, you know, one of the, one of the towers of the community. He really was the guy that, that, you know, that looked out for the, you know, the common man in, in many ways, like you said. So he really was, you know, just a great figure in the little small town when I was there. And so many of the attorneys that I work with now, and especially estate and trust attorneys, Dave, as I work with these folks and, and I know a number of them and you know, and speak with them on a regular basis, even when we're not working on a particular evaluation case. And they are, like you said, they are not just doing a service for that client, they are doing something for that client's children and grandchildren oftentimes. And the clients are trusting these attorneys, especially the estate and trust attorneys, to know this mountain of regulation and to understand how to help them navigate based on their, their particular circumstances, something that's going to survive them and their children and maybe down to their grandchildren. So I agree with you. Most attorneys that I know relish what it is that they do because they can do something that not everyone can do for those clients and they love making clients happy. Dave: Yeah, yeah, that's certainly been my experience as well. Well, why don't we dive just a little bit more into the estate and trust and valuation discount. What are some other, like, if there's an estate attorney Listening to this, what are some other things that maybe they're not familiar with? As far as landmines or opportunities on the valuation side? What are some other things that come to mind? Scott: You know, it's interesting that you, that you mentioned that there's several IRS code sections that deal with very specialized rules. And so we actually, you know, have done some research to find out what are the rules that most often trip up, you know, attorneys and their clients. And we recently put together a white paper that I've shared with a lot of my trust and estate attorney friends of some of the, in this case, the six top things that tend to trip up attorneys and their clients. And it's, you know, it's things like treating a family buy sell agreement as fair market value. Just because you prepare a buy sell agreement and you go through the formal documents and have everyone sign it and you say, hey, here's what the value of our LLC is going to be. Just because you've done everything properly legally doesn't mean that the IRS is going to accept that. The IRS looks at the economic reality over the legal form. So just because you say, you know, hey, we gave this property away, you know, from this client, this client, you know, gave this property away, and so it's not included at his estate, the IRS looks at it differently and they say, okay, you gave it away, but you gave it away two days before you died. You know, this is almost, it's not, you weren't really looking to give this stuff away. You're looking to avoid taxes to your estate, right? Or let's say that the client says, hey, I'm giving away this, this, this business interest, you know, to my kids, but I'm retaining the right to, to make dividends, you know, from that business interest. The IRS looks at that and says, you're like, we call that retained rights. The IRS says, hey, you're retaining, you know, certain rights to that business that suggests that you still control it. So guess what? That business interest, you know, for $30 million that you said you gave away is not part of your estate. You effectively kept that. We're going to pull that back into your estate now and you're going to owe us taxes on that. And you've got a huge estate. So this means that your marginal tax rate on that business is, you know, it's astronomical. So, so those are some of the types of things. But it's, you know, it's knowing specialized rules like, you know, retained rights. It's another area where the IRS really gets folks is in discounts. Dave: Okay. Scott: Oftentimes. So discounts are a legal tool to use to represent a market reality. And so let me just give you an example there. You know, we have what we call a marketability discount that we can take on a business interest. And what that means is I can't turn this into cash very easily. A marketability discount shows the market reality that my privately held business, if I wanted to liquidate it, it would take me some amount of time and probably a lot of time, probably many months to liquidated. And therefore a, an informed investor would pay me less for that. They would discount that. Dave: That's a, sooner you want to close, the bigger the discount. Scott: Right? Dave: I mean, if you went to an arm's length transaction, that said, I have this $50 million business that would normally require a year of due diligence and you say to them, what will you give me to close on this business in one month? Well, they naturally are going to put a huge discount on that to account for the fact that they're having to skip their normal due diligence to offset their risk. Scott: Yeah, it really is a risk and return thing, is what these discounts represent, but it represents a market reality. Okay. What you can't do, though, what the IRS really frowns on is when maybe, let's say it's a CPA or somebody who only does valuations part time and they, you know, they're going to go look and they're going to say, oh, okay, for, for this type of asset, the average marketability discount is 35%. So boom, there we go. We're going to put 35% on it. They don't bother to explain it in the report because there's nothing to explain. They just went and found the market average. And the IRS is going to say, absolutely not. The discount needs to reflect the market reality of what's going on here. And, and using an average is not acceptable. And there's tons of court cases that show this. Now, if you went, for example, and found a court case with an asset that was very similar to yours, and they took a 50% marketability discount because of certain market realities with that business, and you and your business was very similar and had the same set of facts and circumstances, you might be able to take a 50% discount, but you've used a court case or you've used, you know, solid reasoning for how you did that. You didn't just take an average. So discounts are a huge area that the IRS loves to attack. And then like I said, the Last thing, really is the overriding theme in so many of these estate, trust and gift rules of the IRS is valuing the economic reality over the legal form. So just because you say that you gave something away, if you retain the right and use, you know, the ability to use it and to enjoy it and to have certain rights, the IRS says, I don't care that you've got a legal document that's signed. You didn't really give away those, those things from an economic perspective. And so you lose your discount and we're going to hit you where it hurts, which is in tax dollars. So that's what makes, you know, this area of specialization, you know, so difficult for a lot of folks. You don't want somebody who dabbles in this stuff. You really need to know these rules and to have dealt with them and to be experienced in this. Dave: So that's a really interesting point on the discount because, and I guess it's because these are related party transactions is what causes the scrutiny. Because if you have a $50 million business and you have a unrelated third party and they strike a deal to buy the business for $25 million and that's what everybody agrees to, then that's the price. And there's really no way for any other entity, a government body, a bank, anyone else, to really question it. Or conversely, if they're. A bidding war happens and that $50 million business sells for $100 million, that the contract governs it. As long as, you know, it meets the elements of a contract, that contract is valid. And it just strikes me that I could see somebody being tripped up on this because like you said, they could have all the I's dotted, the T's crossed, it being notarized, being signed by all the parties, I could see all that happening. And it seems like that $50 million business that you valued at $25 million, on the surface, everybody may think, hey, we're in great shape, I's dotted, T's crossed, everybody signed it, we had it notarized, we signed in a fancy office, everybody was sober, we're good. So is that, is it the related party aspect that creates the nuance and the difference? Scott: That. That is a big part of it. So in estate trust work, we're talking about, you know, it's clients that are doing things for themselves that often involves their family members or close friends. And so that's exactly what it is. So if, like you said, if, you know, a sale to an unrelated third party, that's market value, unless there's something else going on under the table. Otherwise, it's, by definition, it's what the market would pay and, you know, a buyer who doesn't have to buy and a seller who doesn't have to sell. But when you're doing these things, when you're gifting something to your children or to your spouse and you're assigning a value to that, it's a much different story, right? Because now it's, that's a family member or a person that's close to you. And you know, the real thing here, that that's, that that causes the friction, Dave, is that, you know, IRS rules allow people to take advantage of certain things to pay less taxes. There's certain things you can do. You can take discounts. The thing is, you can't take, you can't just willy nilly take discounts. They have to be properly supported and they have to be market based. And, and unfortunately, those things are not clear and objective. It's like, okay, you get, you do 1, 2, 3. And it works perfectly every time, right? There's a lot of subjective knowledge that goes into this, but at the end of the day, it needs to make sense to the irs. And they make the assumption they're at, they're adverse from us, right? From us and our clients. And their assumption is this thing is probably wrong unless you can prove to me that it's right. And that may not seem fair, but oftentimes that's kind of the way it is with the valuation. So it's really important to prepare that valuation from the perspective of, I'm expecting that the IRS is going to ask me these questions and they're going to push on me on these areas. And so I want this report to be so clear, when they look at it, it's like, okay, well, I see what he did. I may not fully agree with it, but what he did was reasonable and he didn't take any crazy positions. As opposed to just doing a standard valuation where you don't really speak specifically to some of those issues. You leave those areas of interpretation open for the irs and they're going to take advantage of that every time because they've done way more of these than our client has. Right? Dave: Well, I couldn't. But I always thought that once you did the valuation, you were done, you washed your hands of it. You said, hey, that's it, we got this crazy 80% discount. I'm done, I've washed my hands of this, and I never am going to be asked about this again. Is that how it goes. Scott: And I'm sure that you're being facetious when you ask that question. That's how it goes with some evaluation professionals, unfortunately. But that's not how it goes at atg. The way that we do these things, when we do evaluation like this, we always offer what we call audit defense. And you know, what that means, is that if the IRS picks this thing up and does a first line of examination of this, we're going to represent you. Whether that means sitting down with him face to face or answering emails or getting on a zoom call, we're going to defend our work. And so we're going to talk to the IRS and say, hey, look, here's what we did. Here's why we did it. And, you know, the IRS doesn't always have to agree with you. That's okay. They may not agree with you on everything. They probably won't. But as long as you. As long as you can clearly explain and it makes sense from a market perspective, you're going to be okay. And so when we prepare these things, we know that we are going to be having to explain this to the IRS potentially, and that's the perspective that we take. You know, one of the things we. That we typically say is we think like the irs, before the IRS ever shows up, we're thinking like, okay, what are the questions that they're going to ask? What are the areas that we need to really do? Make sure that we've got this thing perfectly buttoned up and prepare that. Like, we're going to sit down with an IRS agent who's angry and hasn't had his coffee on that day. And so we do that in advance for every one of these, knowing that we're going to. That we're going to be. That we're going to be on the hook if they examine this thing? And so we're never. We don't ever leave the client, you know, hung out to dry. It's like, okay, I do see that from time to time where clients come and they've got a. They've got evaluation, or their attorney comes and says, hey, we got this valuation. And it seemed really great, but the IRS has got all these questions about this 80% discount, and we don't know how to answer them. And we can do what we can do to try to, you know, to try to help the situation. We can't fix those things that, that, you know, if it's. If they've taken. If somebody else has taken a position that's not defensible. Not a whole lot we can do, but hopefully what we can do is just to help to, you know, to smooth it as much as possible or to prepare the client in advance for, you know, for what is likely to happen here is oftentimes what we do. Dave: Well, it sounds like your approach is more thorough and probably takes more time than just, you know, somebody who, you know, has some boilerplate language. They do 10 minutes of research, they say the average discount for this industry should be 40%. They plug it in, they have a five page report and they say that's that. You know, is this one of those things of you, you get what you pay for? It is. Scott: It is. It definitely takes more time for us to do it the way that we do it, which is building that report, assuming that the IRS is going to ask us questions, takes more time and it costs the client a little bit more to do that. But the downside is such that it more than pays for itself. If you think about it, we're, you know, I talk with the clients, with attorney referral partners about this. Where would you rather your client be? Would you rather them be elated about that 80% discount that they got that is not defensible? Or would you. Are you still going to be there when the IRS examines this? They got a 1 in 5 chance of examining it. Are you going to want to be there when you have to give them the bad news that the IRS disallowed the discount? And the problem is, Dave, that if the valuation is off significantly, the IRS doesn't just say, oh, no, that's not 80, it should have been 50%. So we're just going to take the delta. They look at it and they say, it's 80, it should have been 35. You guys screwed this up so bad that we're going to disallow the whole discount. And oh, by the way, that other discount that you took to, you took a control discount, it's automatically disallowed too, because you have so egregiously misstated this. And they can take the final step of saying, we're going to disallow the whole valuation here. We're going to set the value and you don't get any discount. So that's the absolute worst that could happen. But think about it. When they disallow that, that big discount that you've promised your client, and they've probably put the money in the bank and maybe even spent it, now you got to go back and say, hey, we don't. Not only do we not get that. That 50 or 80% discount, but you got to turn around and pay taxes on that whole amount. And, you know, for these larger estates, it could be millions of dollars. It's oftentimes. It's always thousands, hundreds of thousands, oftentimes millions of dollars that the client didn't think they were going to have to pay. They were super happy when they got that really cheap valuation. But. But it's like, okay, would you have paid, you know, 25 or 30% more for the valuation if. If you would have known that it was going to save you this whole debacle? Dave: Yeah. We're talking thousands of dollars in additional fees versus millions or tens of millions of dollars of tax exposure. Scott: Absolutely. That. That is potentially it. So I have never seen a case where, when the IRS reviews these things, where the incremental fee, you know, that the client, you know, would have paid is more than the, you know, the exposure that they have to the irs. It's always, you know, a multiple of that. So that, you know, the easy way to say it is there's huge downside here. And a lot of times, if it's a big estate and, you know, and there's some thorny issues involved, it makes much more sense to go ahead and get these things done right the first time. Dave: Okay. And, I mean, I. I know a lot of attorneys and some of the estate planning attorneys I know just getting ready for this call, I'd asked them, like, what are some of their frustrations with valuations? And one of the things they said is just re. Is responsiveness. They said, there are some firms out there. They said, you know, we're kind of under the gun. We brought the valuation person in too late, and they need three months to do this valuation. And, you know, sometimes it's a part of a large bureaucratic organization, and it's just, you know, there's just that. And my sense is that you all, being a boutique firm, focused purely on this, I'm guessing you have service options where you can turn things around more responsively than, you know, months. Is that true? Scott: Yeah, that is absolutely, Dave. You know, our standard Turnaround is usually 30 to 45 days. Oh, wow. Dave: Okay. Scott: You know, for an estate trust or gift valuation. And we, you know, we don't. As part of our standard package, we don't offer it quicker than that. We can deliver sooner than that. But of course, it's going to be an additional fee if you wait till the last minute. Yeah. Dave: You're paying overtime for your team and Scott: all somebody's got to sleep less when we do this thing and somebody has to sleep less. Dave: And, and that's what they're paying for. Scott: They're paying for those hours of sleep that they missed. But, but you know, Dave, I put together for, for some of my referral partners, I put together a list of 11 or 12 questions that, that they should ask or that they should think about when they're looking for a valuation professional. And this is one of them. You know, you know, one of the questions is do you have the, do you have evaluation credentials? Some of those are easy, but you know, another question is what's your turnaround time on these things? And, and if they say, oh, it's, you know, 60 days, 90 days, we don't know. Those are all signs that either they don't know what they're doing and you know, it's a crapshoot as to how long it's going to take them or they're busy. The valuation is not really their primary line of business. Oftentimes it's happened with CPA firms. Tax, tax or audit is their primary focus. Yeah, maybe the two or three folks that do business valuation part time are slammed with tax deadlines. And so, yeah, so if you call Dave: them in late January, good luck in getting anything done before May. Scott: I have this happen all the time where clients, you know, they don't get any responsiveness during tax season because they, their CPA or you know, a well known firm here in town who may have evaluation person or two that do this stuff. They can't get to it because their primary focus is tax or audit. And even worse is when the clients have questions about evaluation that their CPA firm valuation department did and they can't get anybody to call them back because they're slammed with deadlines. So just, it's another good reason why, you know, I encourage clients or referral partners to ask about those things on the front end. You know, what's your turnaround time? And you know, do you have a guaranteed turnaround time? Do you have, do you offer audit defense if you don't, why, you know, with the big firms, with the, you know, the large regional or national firms, the reason they don't is because they don't have to. They can afford to charge you whatever they want. Dave: Sure. Scott: But you know, but attorneys should ask those questions up front when they're interviewing potential valuation professionals. Ask those questions and you know, get answers on those things beforehand so that you're not, you know, three months later waiting to get that information. Dave: And yeah, it really sounds like you really could be a great resource for estate attorneys. You know, have you ever thought about writing a book or something geared. Sorry, I should have waited for you to finish your drinking coffee. Have you ever thought about writing a book like, geared specifically toward estate planning attorneys on some things they might need to know about valuation in the estate, trust and gift valuation world? Have you even thought about it, Scott? Scott: You know, we should have done the Tonight show together. You could be Ed McMahon and I could be Johnny Carson or Vice, but. Yeah, you're kind enough to bring that up, Dave. Actually, I have just recently written a book. It's actually in print now. I just. I just yesterday, probably two or three weeks away from having copies in my hand. And the name of the book is Business Valuation A Plain English Guide for Texas Attorneys. Oh, wow. Dave: Okay. Scott: It's exactly what it sounds like. It's written in plain English. There's no technical jargon, no acronyms, no mathematical formulas or anything else. What we did was, you know, we wrote a book that. That answers the questions that attorneys have most often. Do I need evaluation? Does it need to be certified? What are the landmines I should look out for? Is there certain terms that I need to understand in order to be conversant in this? That's what we've done. We've written a book. I go around meeting attorneys on a regular basis, as we do, networking, like we all do, and meet them oftentimes in a coffee shop. I call those coffee shop conversations, where it's just a casual conversation with an attorney, and he may. He or she may bring up a. An issue, you know, a specific issue they have with a client or something, and we can just. It's just a casual conversation. And that's what I want this book to be, is I want it to be like a coffee shop conversation where we can just. We can talk about, you know, the basic questions that they need to know. They don't need to know how to do a DCF calculation or a capitalization of earnings. They don't need to worry about what multiples are or anything else they need to know. They just need to have their basic questions answered so they can advise that client properly. Do we need to get an expert involved or do we not? And that's what we've done with this book, and I'm very excited about it and looking forward to. Dave: Yeah. So by the time this episode goes live, I expect your book will be out. And, you know, it's funny, in my niche tax arena of the IC Disc. I always tell our clients and advisors because they always kind of get overwhelmed with the details and the nuances, and they're trying to make sure they remember it. And every year, the same controller has the same question year after year, and they feel bad about it because, like, Dave, I know I asked you about this last year, and I'm asking you again, and I always tell them, I say, hey, look, I deal with this 365 days a year. You deal with it one day a year. And I. And in fact, I just had this call with a client yesterday, and I said, kayla, all you need to know about the IC disc is my phone number. And I'd argue that's all the attorneys need to know. They just need Scott's phone number, because all the other pieces you can take care of. Scott: Absolutely, Absolutely. And that's, you know, that's why I wrote the book, was just to. To be able to be a simple guide, you know, for attorneys to say, what do I do next? What are the questions that I need to. That I've got, and what do I need to do next? Dave: And. Scott: And you're right. Ideally, let me worry about the details, and I can take them through those details and as much, you know, take as much time as they would like. But ultimately, usually when I deal with attorney referral partners, they're just looking for that. That basic guidance. What do we need to do here? What should I look out for? Those types of things. So it's the approach you take with your clients? Yeah. No. Dave: So even though the book is really geared toward the attorney, if you. If the attorney had a client who was, you know, like, say, an engineer, you tend to be detail oriented and is really pushing back. And they say, well, my research says I should be able to get a 70% discount on this. Now, would the book be written in simple enough terms? That attorney could give a copy to a client who's detail oriented to at least cause the client to say, okay, all right, I get it. It's more complicated than I thought. So do you think it's plain language enough for a business owner or somebody, A client of a c. Of an estate attorney? Scott: Yes. The short answer is yes, Dave. I wrote it specifically for attorneys because those are the folks that I talk to the most often, and they're the primary referral partners, the primary point of contact I have when valuation issues come up for a client. But, you know, this book, you know, it would be very helpful for attorneys, CPAs, wealth planners, or the top folks that would find this thing Interesting. And. And it really is written in simple, easy to understand terms. And it covers some of the primary reasons why they might need evaluation. Things like M and A, estate and trust, divorce, business disputes, or IP valuations. And it gives just the basic questions that they need to understand to be conversant enough to know what they need to do next. And I give some very simple but practical examples for most of the issues. Most of the questions that I answer in there, I give simple examples. Here's an example of how this works or how it worked in the past with a client so that they can quickly and easily consume the things that they need to figure out. What are the next steps here? So there. No, no CPA is going to sit down with this book and say, okay, this is going to teach me everything I need to know to do evaluation. It's not meant for those folks. There's plenty of those out there that are written by people, you know, that have every detail in it. Dave: Yeah, textbook type. Scott: Exactly. This is really meant to be just a reference guide, a place to, to guide you so that you can figure out the next steps. Dave: Okay, well, hey. Well, Scott, I think this has been your second time on the podcast. It's been even more fun the second time. As we wrap up here, is there anything I didn't ask you that you wish I had? Scott: I wish you would ask me about my dog, Buddy, my office mate here, but otherwise, I, you know, I. There's nothing that really comes to mind that I could think of, honestly. I think we had a really good discussion about these issues. And, you know, the main thing I would leave you with and your audience with is I enjoy, you know, talking about this. This is, like you said, this is what I do seven days a week. And anytime that somebody has a question about evaluation, especially the state trust and gift valuations, I'm always happy. It's easy to find my contact information on LinkedIn and I'm always happy to have a conversation and, and if I can't help, you know, the person, then I can always point them in the right direction. Happy to be a resource for you, for your clients, for anybody who's got a question. Happy to do that. Dave: And just curious, do you, like, charge for a preliminary conversation like that? Scott: We never charge until the. And unless the client decides to engage us to do the work. So all my conversations are free up front. And, and that's, you know, that's just the way that we do business is we can give you honest information and have that, that, you know, simple conversation with you up front so that you're armed with what you need to make that, well, awesome. Dave: Well, Scott, this has been a lot of fun. Best of luck in the release of your book. I'm looking forward to getting a copy of it. Scott: Thank you, Dave. It's been a pleasure to be on with you again. I appreciate the opportunity. Dave: All right. Hey, you have a great day, buddy. Scott: Thanks.Special Guest: Scott Abels.

The AI-Driven Threat Matrix: Architectural Cybersecurity and Compliance for Small Firms with Michele NovackIn a recent episode of The Thoughtful Entrepreneur Podcast, host Josh Elledge sat down with Michele Novack, the host and founder of Cardinalsbyte, to break down the rapidly evolving cyber vulnerabilities that threaten the financial solvency of small businesses. As a veteran risk strategist specializing in the financial services sector, Michele highlights how CPAs, accountants, and tax professionals have become prime targets for sophisticated, automated digital attacks. This conversation delivers an intentional operational roadmap for mid-market founders and executive teams looking to navigate tightening federal mandates, identify hidden security gaps within their existing infrastructure, and defend their enterprise value against highly advanced, AI-powered corporate fraud.The Anatomy of Digital Defense: Mitigating Algorithmic Vulnerabilities through Zero-Trust ProtocolsThe rapid proliferation of consumer-facing artificial intelligence has weaponized the digital threat landscape, enabling bad actors to execute automated, hyper-personalized social engineering campaigns at an unprecedented scale. Michele Novack cautions that small businesses can no longer rely on traditional, passive firewall defenses as cybercriminals increasingly deploy sophisticated voice cloning, automated phishing sequences, and deepfake video streams to bypass conventional security guardrails. A single compromised corporate email account can result in catastrophic financial loss, as demonstrated by emerging corporate wire fraud schemes where payroll managers are manipulated by synthetic, AI-generated replicas of their CEO during live video conferences. To counter this automated disruption, executive leadership must enforce rigid, non-negotiable zero-trust verification protocols—requiring multi-channel, manual confirmation for all financial movements and high-stakes data extractions completely independent of digital messaging networks.Insulating a firm against regulatory penalties and liability requires a disciplined commitment to formalizing internal data compliance programs rather than treating security as an ad-hoc IT checklist. Tightening federal mandates, such as the revised FTC Safeguards Rule and IRS security guidelines, now legally obligate financial services providers to maintain comprehensive, written documentation detailing their operational defenses. Many business owners operate under the dangerous assumption that their external Managed Service Provider (MSP) inherently handles regulatory compliance, leaving the enterprise exposed to massive liability gaps due to a complete lack of formal Written Information Security Programs (WISPs) and documented Incident Response Plans (IRPs). True enterprise resilience is achieved when leadership takes proactive ownership of corporate compliance, closing security gaps by performing routine endpoint audits, implementing geographical IP blocking, and maximizing the advanced, built-in security features native to enterprise cloud suites like Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace.Transforming an organization's digital posture ultimately relies on establishing a transparent, security-first corporate culture that bridges the gap between complex technical tools and human operational habits. Because human manipulation remains the primary vector for enterprise data breaches, continuous, jargon-free employee training is a vital piece of operational infrastructure. Rather than deploying clinical, one-and-done IT lectures that fail to change day-to-day employee behavior, founders must implement continuous, interactive education loops and safe phishing simulations that sharpen frontline skepticism. When clear behavioral habits, automated endpoint monitoring, and verified compliance documentation are synthesized under a unified governance architecture, a business successfully limits its operational risk. This proactive stance converts cybersecurity from a costly technical burden into a powerful, high-valuation corporate asset that fiercely protects the organization's market authority.About Michele NovackMichele Novack is the host, founder, and chief risk strategist of Cardinalsbyte, and a premier authority on small business data security and financial compliance management. Drawing from decades of specialized experience within the financial services and accounting sectors, Michele focuses on demystifying complex technical architecture to make regulatory frameworks accessible for corporate executives. She is a dedicated educator and advisor who specializes in constructing high-accountability cyber defense models designed to protect small-to-mid-sized enterprises from advanced electronic corporate theft.About CardinalsbyteCardinalsbyte is an elite risk management and cybersecurity compliance consultancy that provides custom data-protection solutions, vulnerability assessments, and regulatory mapping for professional services firms. The company specializes in translating complex federal guidelines, such as NIST frameworks and IRS mandates, into actionable corporate playbooks including Written Information Security Programs (WISPs). Through proactive technical testing, executive risk summaries, and white-glove incident response coordination, Cardinalsbyte enables mid-market organizations to eliminate administrative security debt and shield their bottom lines from systemic digital threats.Links Mentioned in This EpisodeCardinalsbyte Compliance Partner Page: cardinalsbytes.com/compliance-partnerMichele Novack on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/cardinalsbyte-mnovackKey Episode HighlightsThe AI Weaponization Trap: Analyzing how deepfakes, automated voice cloning, and synthetic media bypass traditional corporate communication filters to enable catastrophic wire fraud.The MSP Compliance Gap: Understanding why standard IT vendors fail to provide mandatory regulatory documentation, and how to self-correct using structured WISPs.Maximizing Built-In Cloud Security: Leveraging and configuring the advanced, pre-existing anti-phishing dashboards embedded within Microsoft 365 and Google Workspace.The Multi-Channel Verification Mandate: Implementing mandatory human-in-the-loop protocols that require dual physical authorization for high-volume financial movements.Building a Skeptical Corporate Culture: Shifting internal security training from a static annual checklist into continuous, interactive education that reduces human error on the frontline.ConclusionThe conversation with Michele Novack underscores that true cybersecurity resilience is an ongoing exercise in structural governance and human vigilance rather than an expensive software purchase. By standardizing internal corporate compliance, executing rigorous endpoint audits, and building an inclusive culture of behavioral accountability, business leaders can transform a vulnerable digital setup into a highly secure, enterprise-grade corporate asset.More from The Thoughtful Entrepreneur

Are your prices too low because raising them feels unnerving?Most CPAs don't have a pricing problem. They have a confidence problem. In this episode, we dig into why pricing isn't math - it's psychology - and how underpricing steals your time, energy, and freedom. You'll hear practical ways to test higher prices, simplify your services, stop saying yes to everything, and build a firm that feels lighter, calmer, and far more profitable without grinding harder.Link to video replay:https://www.crowdcast.io/c/price-with-confidence…Link to full shownotes: https://www.businessstrategyforcpas.com/394…Want the skinny on pricing?If you feel trapped by your own accounting firm, it's not because of the work – it's how you've priced the work. Too many accountants are stuck in undercharging, overdelivering, and people-pleasing cycles. Break the pattern with my short PDF guide: 7 Pricing Essentials »It's free, and you can read it in 5 minutes.I want to help you get your prices up without losing loyal clients.  …Want to hear what works, from 57+ clients?Check out the Client Success Stories podcast: LISTEN »

You started the year off strong, you set all your goals for how you wanted to do your bookkeeping this year, and just like that, it's June, and now is the time for you to do a mid-year bookkeeping and financial checkup to see how your small business is doing.  Time flies by so quickly, and before you know it, we will be flipping the calendar to the month of December.  Today, we are doing a checkup to make sure you have stayed on track with your small business bookkeeping.  Now is the time to make sure you are doing everything you can to stay up to date, and if you find that you have slipped a little, this episode will help you get back on track quickly and make sure you are able to stay up to date going forward so that you can ensure you have a smooth transition at year end.  This halfway point is also a great time to assess how your business is doing.  Are you meeting your sales goals? Is your income higher or lower than what you were projecting? And what should you do if you are seeing numbers you didn't expect?  I'll also help you focus on which reports you should be looking at, whether you are using a computerized system like QuickBooks or keeping track of your business finances manually or in a Google or Excel spreadsheet.  It is extremely important to keep a pulse on how your business is doing throughout the year, whether you are just starting your small business, you're a solopreneur, entrepreneur, small business owner, virtual online bookkeeper, or virtual assistant, so listen in and make sure your business is on track to reach all your goals by doing a mid-year financial checkup… Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit And Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan and overcome the obstacles that stand in your way so that you can move forward and immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Early morning silly zoom! The Notes: Nelson's grapes! No more squishy wetness! Nelson is a grape martyr! Nelson is keeping it crisp! CRISP! Hit us up, grapes! Do you have a murder room!? Live show coming! A murder-free evening in July! We're a murder podcast now! CPA erotic tax secrets! Fuck 'em in February, Mail 'em in March! Allegedly, Allegedly, Allegedly! That baby smokes cigars like Spicy Beef Gaus! We're gonna do a gentrification! Ladleful of vibes! To the dentist with haste! Jaw-shattering crispness! Will had the zoom take Notes on the recording. Some highlights: - Grape-eating paused during recording to avoid unwanted microphone noise. - Podcast described as anti-murder and educational — clarified emphatically after extended hypothetical murder room tangent. - Whether any Algerian World Cup players might still be in Lawrence, Kansas by show date. - Exact percentage of CPAs "involved with" client taxes — Chris declined to disclose. - NBA: Basketball playoffs concluded; Knicks won the championship, with candidate Mamdani credited for maintaining team "vibes." (Apparently zoom ai missed the election happening) - Algeria geography note: ~80% covered by Sahara Desert; one of Africa's largest countries post-Sudan split. - Both: Confirm D&D session is happening tonight. See our Live Episode 555 (Oops All 5's) on Saturday 7/11! Details soon! Contact Us! Follow Us! Love Us! Email: doubledeucepod@gmail.com Twitter, Instagram, Threads: @doubledeucepod Bluesky: @doubledeucepod.bsky.social Facebook: www.facebook.com/DoubleDeucePod/ Patreon: patreon.com/DoubleDeucePod Also, please subscribe/rate/review/share us! We're on Apple, Android, Libsyn, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, Amazon, Radio.com, RadioPublic, pretty much anywhere they got podcasts, you can find the Deuce! Podcast logo art by Jason Keezer! Find his art online at Keezograms! Intro & Outro featuring Rob Schulte! Check out his many podcasts! Brought to you in part by sponsorship from Courtney Shipley, Official Superfans Stefan Rider, Amber Fraley, Nate Copt, and listeners like you! Join a tier on our Patreon! Advertise with us! If you want that good, all-natural focus and energy, our DOUBLEDEUCE20 code still works at www.magicmind.com/doubledeuce for 20% off all purchases and subscriptions. Check out the Lawrence Times's 785 Collective at https://lawrencekstimes.com/785collective/ for a list of local LFK podcasts including this one!  

Do you understand why we often tend to fall off the wagon or stop working towards our goals when it gets hard?  Our natural instinct, or our brain's way of survival, is to seek pleasure, avoid pain, and conserve energy.  It is called the motivational triad, and it's true for our physical, mental, and emotional needs, and it makes sense that we would want to make sure that we are not hurt, we enjoy ourselves, and we exert as little energy as possible to survive.  This is just how our brain thinks, so anything that feels like it's too hard to do or is too draining on us emotionally or physically causes our brain to want to avoid it.  This is why it can be hard to persevere, but you can persevere, even when it gets hard.  Let's dive in…   Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community I'm inviting you to sign up for the free private podcast where I do a deeper dive into this topic on the Mastering Your Mindset Moments podcast for high-stress professionals: https://www.financialadventure.com/private Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit and Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan for you to move forward so you'll immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Send us Fan MailAt some point, every single hobby became a business opportunity. This week on the Mike & Blaine Podcast, we talk about the return of amateurism and the growing movement of people doing things simply because they enjoy them. From backyard gardening and woodworking to running clubs, sourdough bread, and retro gaming, more people are rejecting the idea that every interest needs to become a side hustle. We explore why hobbies got monetized in the first place, why people are pushing back, and what happens when you stop measuring everything by productivity and profit. Because maybe the most rebellious thing you can do in 2026 is enjoy something you're not trying to optimize.But there is a massive business strategy angle to this shift. From a tactical standpoint, trying to monetize every passion actually dilutes your core business focus and drains the creative energy required to innovate. True entrepreneurial strategy requires downtime to recharge your cognitive reserves. When you treat your personal time like a secondary startup, you risk severe burnout, which directly impacts your primary revenue streams and decision-making abilities. We dive into how separating business tactics from personal fulfillment can actually make you a sharper, more focused leader in companies like Apple, Google, or Microsoft where corporate culture is starting to value the "unplugged" employee. We also look at how platform giants like YouTube, Shopify, and Etsy built entire ecosystems around the side-hustle boom, and why consumer behavior is shifting away from monetization and back toward pure community engagement. Whether you are a founder trying to scale or an executive looking for balance, understanding the boundary between profit and passion is essential for long-term strategic success.We want to hear from you! Email us at beer@mikeandblaine.com and let us know what you do just for fun.If you love the show, support the podcast, visit mikeandblaine.com, and buy us a beer!Thanks to our Beer Sponsors: Karen Hairston from 3S Smart ConsultingCPA Larry Weinstein, the Cash Flow Cowboy from Houston TexasNeighbor Pat DevinListen to all our episodes at mikeandblaine.comLearn about: Cash Flow Mike who trains CPAs to provide effective advisory to their clients at cashflowmike.com Dryrun Cash Flow Forecasting for the office of the CFO where they get finance teams out of spreadsheets at dryrun.comWatch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/39B4RdRldl8#HobbyCulture #Amateurism #SlowLiving #SideHustle #BusinessStrategy #Entrepreneurship #BurnoutPrevention #WorkLifeBalance #BusinessTactics #Mindset #YouTube #Shopify #Etsy #Apple #Google #MikeAndBlaineSupport the showCatch more episodes, see our sponsors and get in touch at https://mikeandblaine.com/

Hey there, I have something that I think will genuinely make your life a little easier.  I know if you're listening to this podcast, you're someone who makes big decisions and solves hard problems, and I have a resource that I'm excited to share with you.  The Reason You Feel Overwhelmed May Surprise You.  If you're like most accountants, business owners, and high-stress professionals I work with, your calendar probably isn't the problem.  Email me at Info@FinancialAdventure.com and let me know you're interested in learning more about The RE*INVENTION™ Process Private Coaching Program.   Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community I'm inviting you to sign up for the free private podcast where I do a deeper dive into this topic on the Mastering Your Mindset Moments podcast for high-stress professionals: https://www.financialadventure.com/private Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit and Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan for you to move forward so you'll immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

In this episode of Inner Edison Podcast, Ed Parcaut sits down with Mike Jesowshek for a practical conversation about small business taxes, proactive planning, and the financial mistakes that keep entrepreneurs stuck. Mike explains why most business owners think about taxes too late, why tax prep is not the same as tax planning, and how better bookkeeping, better structure, and better strategy can legally reduce what a business owner owes. He also shares how his own path started in online marketing and finance before evolving into bookkeeping, accounting, and ultimately a stronger focus on tax planning for entrepreneurs. The conversation covers LLCs versus S corporations, the role of bookkeepers, CPAs, and fractional CFOs, the difference between filing returns and building strategy, and why too many business owners rely on reactive advice instead of planning ahead. This is a strong episode for entrepreneurs who want more clarity, more control, and fewer tax surprises. *Contact Ed Parcaut:** -

Peter Holtz reveals why most CPAs are compliance fillers, not tax planners — and how real estate investors can cut their tax bill by 40% or more.In this episode of RealDealChat, Jack Hoss sits down with Peter Holtz, certified tax planner and CPA, to break down the massive gap between tax compliance and real estate tax planning strategy.Peter covers:Why only 1,100 out of 1.2 million licensed tax preparers are certified tax plannersHow cost segregation works and why virtually no one uses itThe 1031 exchange and reverse 1031 you should know before every saleHow a retired real estate investor legally captured $250,000 in tax-free gains every two yearsThe airline pilot case study: how Peter fought the IRS and won, getting his client years of zero tax liabilityWhy your CPA saying "no, you can't" is a red flagHow to use real estate depreciation to shelter business incomeThe McDonald's model and why every successful business is really a real estate businessHow Peter's team uses AI and cloud accounting to deliver faster resultsQuestions you should ask your CPA before you file another returnIf you own real estate, run a business, or are paying more taxes than you think you should, this episode is required listening.

Karl Paadam made partner at PwC Estonia at 26, spent a decade in tech, and came back to build United Accountants on a contrarian thesis: the future of accounting is human. He joins Blake to explain how a firm can hand bookkeeping, categorization, and reconciliation to an AI operating system that layers on top of whatever software a firm already runs, freeing CPAs to keep their local brand and focus on judgment and advisory work. They also get into outcomes-based pricing, what it means to build "the first big small firm," and why the accountant who ignores AI is the one who gets replaced.Chapters(00:00) - Welcome Karl Paadam to the Earmark Podcast (01:51) - Building a Practice (02:40) - Leaving PwC for Tech (03:29) - Accounting Is Human (05:17) - Advisory Skills Shift (06:35) - AI Productivity in Practice (09:25) - United OS Walkthrough (10:34) - Partner Model Keep Brand (14:50) - Integrations No Rip Replace (18:44) - First Big Small Firm (21:48) - Outcomes Based Pricing (25:00) - AI Like Excel Era (28:05) - What AI Does Next (29:21) - Fear Traps and Controls (32:39) - Who United Fits Best (33:25) - Wrap Up and Contact Learn more about United Accountants https://www.unitedaccountants.com/ Sign up to get free CPE for listening to this podcasthttps://earmarkcpe.comhttps://earmark.app/Download the Earmark CPE App Apple: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/earmark-cpe/id1562599728Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.earmarkcpe.appConnect with Our Guest, Karl PaadamLinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/karl-paadam-39730214Connect with Blake Oliver, CPALinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blaketoliverTwitter: https://twitter.com/blaketoliver/

Chris Papin, Owner of Papin CPA, a firm that bridges the legal and financial gap for business owners through strategic, forward-looking advisory and consulting … Read more The post Tax, Law & Time: How CPAs and Attorneys Think About Building a Business That Actually Works appeared first on Top Entrepreneurs Podcast | Enterprise Podcast Network.

My guest in this episode is Rohit Punyani, the co-founder of The Owner's Asset, a firm focused on helping small business owners, 1099 professionals, and high-income earners build tax-aware retirement strategies with greater control, flexibility, and long-term ownership.With experience in capital markets and private wealth management, Rohit works closely with business owners and CPAs to design practical strategies for reducing tax drag, improving retirement outcomes, and helping owners keep more of what they earn.Interview Links:The Owners Asset https://ownersasset.com/Subscribe To Our Weekly Newsletter:The Wealth Dojo: https://subscribe.wealthdojo.ai/Download all the Niches Trilogy Books:The 21 Best Cashflow NichesDigital: ⁠⁠https://www.cashflowninjaprograms.com/the-21-best-cashflow-niches-book⁠⁠Audio: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/21-best-cashflow-niches⁠The 21 Most Unique Cashflow NichesDigital: ⁠⁠https://www.cashflowninjaprograms.com/the-21-most-unique-cashflow-niches⁠⁠Audio: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/21-most-unique-niches⁠The 21 Best Cash Growth NichesDigital: ⁠https://www.cashflowninjaprograms.com/the-21-best-cash-growth-niches⁠⁠Audio: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/21-cash-growth-nichesThe 21 Next Level Cashflow NichesDigital: https://www.cashflowninjaprograms.com/the-21-next-level-cashflow-niches-book-free-downloadAudio: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/the-21-next-level-nichesListen To Cashflow Ninja Podcasts:Cashflow Ninja⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cashflowninja⁠Cashflow Investing Secrets⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cashflowinvestingsecrets⁠Cashflow Ninja Banking⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cashflow-ninja-banking⁠Connect With Us:Website: http://cashflowninja.comPodcast: http://cashflowinvestingsecrets.comPodcast: http://cashflowninjabanking.comSubstack: https://mclaubscher.substack.com/Amazon Audible: https://a.co/d/1xfM1VxAmazon Audible: https://a.co/d/aGzudX0Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cashflowninja/Twitter: https://twitter.com/mclaubscherInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecashflowninja/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cashflowninjaLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mclaubscher/Gab: https://gab.com/cashflowninjaYoutube: http://www.youtube.com/c/CashflowninjaRumble: https://rumble.com/c/c-329875

Cash flow refers to the money moving in and out of your business.  When you have a positive cash flow, it simply means that you have enough money to manage the payments of any money that goes out of your business.  If you have more money coming into your business than going out, you will have obtained a positive cash flow.  Many business owners think the only way they can increase their cash flow is to increase their sales or increase their net income.  This statement is partially true.  You will increase your cash flow if you see additional sales, but what if you could increase your cash flow without adding any additional sales?  If you are experiencing a tight cash flow, or maybe even a negative cash flow, there are things you can do in your business right now to help give your cash flow a boost without increasing your sales.  I understand there may be times in your business when you really rely on having enough cash flow to get by, and I know this past year has been hard for a number of small business owners.  If you are using a computerized software solution such as QuickBooks, you can easily generate a cash flow statement to see exactly where your business stands.  Today, I am going to talk about one simple tip you can do to help increase your cash flow, whether you are just starting your small business, you're a solopreneur, entrepreneur, small business owner, virtual online bookkeeper, or virtual assistant.  Your cash flow will be a huge contributor to making sure your business will survive, so listen in and make sure you follow this one simple tip...    Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit And Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan and overcome the obstacles that stand in your way so that you can move forward and immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Recorded at ENGAGE in Las Vegas, this episode of the JofA podcast features Carl Mayes, CPA, the AICPA's vice president–Ethics & Firm Quality, discussing the Profession Ready Initiative and the evolving skills employers expect from current and aspiring CPAs.  Mayes shares insights from discussions with more than 1,000 members, including concerns about foundational accounting skills, communication abilities, and maintaining professional skepticism in an AI-driven environment.  Mayes, who was also on the podcast in February, reflects in this episode on the profession's responsibility to prepare the next generation of CPAs and the energizing role events such as ENGAGE play in shaping new ideas across the profession. One other resource related to the conversation: the monthly A&A Focus series. What you'll learn from this episode: An early-career lesson for Mayes that underscored CPAs serving as "gatekeepers for the capital markets." What early stages of the Profession Ready Initiative have unearthed after conversations with more than 1,000 accounting professionals. Why communication skills, critical thinking, and skepticism are becoming more important in the age of AI. Why Mayes said, "Active listeners make better leaders." How employers and educators are working to close competency gaps for CPAs. What ENGAGE means to accounting professionals looking for new ideas, stronger connections, and practical innovation.

Duct fixes a lot of things, including my comedy career. Ok, not really my career, but the transportation getting me to the gigs. Here's a quick, embarrassing story about my use of duct tape. Not really looking my best as I drove around the country, but it ws functional . . .for a while.  https://www.TheWorkLady.com  Jan McInnis is a top change management keynote speaker, comedian, and funny motivational speaker who helps organizations use humor to handle change, build resilience, and strengthen leadership skills. With her laugh-out-loud stories and practical tips, Jan shows audiences how humor isn't just entertainment—it's a business skill that drives communication, connection, and stress relief. A conference keynote speaker, Master of Ceremonies, and comedy writer, Jan has written material for The Tonight Show with Jay Leno as well as radio, TV, and syndicated cartoon strips. She's the author of two books—Finding the Funny Fast and Convention Comedian—and her insights on humor in business have been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and The Huffington Post. For over 25 years, she has been helping leaders and teams discover how to bounce back from setbacks, embrace change, and connect through comedy. Jan has delivered keynote speeches at thousands of events nationwide, from the Federal Reserve Banks to the Mayo Clinic, for industries that include healthcare, finance, government, education, women's leadership events, technology, and safety & disaster management. Her client list features respected organizations such as: Healthcare: Mayo Clinic, Kaiser Permanente, Abbott Pharmaceuticals, Health Information Management Associations, Assisted Living Associations Finance: Federal Reserve Banks, Merrill Lynch, Transamerica Insurance, BDO Accounting, American Institute of CPAs, credit unions, banking associations Government: U.S. Air Force, Social Security Administration, International Institute of Municipal Clerks, National League of Cities, public utilities, correctional associations Women's Leadership Events: Toyota Women's Conference, Go Red for Women, Speaking of Women's Health, Soroptimists, Women in Insurance & Financial Services Education: State superintendent associations, community college associations, Head Start associations, National Association of Elementary and Middle School Principals Safety & Disaster: International Association of Emergency Managers, Disney Emergency Management, Mid-Atlantic Safety Conference, risk management associations   Her background as a Washington, D.C. marketing executive gives her a unique perspective that blends business acumen with stand-up comedy. Jan was also honored with the Greater Washington Society of Association Executives "Excellence in Education" Award. Along with her podcast Finding the Funny: Leadership Tips from a Comedian, Jan also produces Comedian Stories: Tales From the Road in Under 5 Minutes. Whether she's headlining a major convention, hosting a leadership retreat, or teaching resilience at a safety conference, Jan's programs give audiences the tools to laugh, learn, and lead.  

Is there anything you've experienced in your past that is currently influencing how you live your life?  How often do you talk to others about things that happened in your past?  Do you let your past dictate how you live your life, or how you think your future will be?  Did you know that you have the power to change your past?  Your past no longer exists.  It is over, but you are able to live in the present and can envision your future.  What you make of your present and your future is all how you think about it.  Let's dive in…   Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community I'm inviting you to sign up for the free private podcast where I do a deeper dive into this topic on the Mastering Your Mindset Moments podcast for high-stress professionals: https://www.financialadventure.com/private Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit and Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan for you to move forward so you'll immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Recorded live at Bridging the Gap 2025, Terrell sits down with Questian Telka, co-host of the She Counts Podcast and a late-diagnosed ADHDer, for a conversation that goes well beyond the typical conference interview. On Episode 270 of The Unique CPA, Questian talks candidly about what it meant to finally receive her diagnosis as an adult, the moment she describes as "my whole life makes sense to me now," and how understanding her own brain became less about labeling herself and more about having a user manual. She moderated a panel at BTG where three highly successful CPAs reframed ADHD not as something they succeeded in spite of, but often because of, like a "superpower." It's a perfect example of what Bridging the Gap does differently from other accounting conferences, and why the profession needs these conversations happening at all times, not just once a year in a hotel ballroom. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUniqueCPA.com

What does the future of the CPA profession look like as advisory, financial planning, and AI reshape client expectations? In this episode of the AICPA Personal Financial Planning Podcast, Cary Sinnett sits down with Sue Coffey, CEO of Public Accounting at the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, to discuss the profession's transformation from compliance-focused work to holistic trusted advisory. Sue shares why trust has become one of the profession's greatest competitive advantages, how technology and complexity are accelerating change, and why CPA financial planners are uniquely positioned to lead multigenerational client relationships. The conversation also explores how education, credentialing, AI, and evolving firm models are shaping the next generation of CPA advisors. Whether you are building an advisory practice, expanding into financial planning, or thinking about the future direction of the profession, this episode provides an inside look at where the CPA profession is headed and why the opportunity for planners has never been greater. Questions Answered Why is the CPA profession shifting from compliance toward advisory services?  What makes CPA financial planners uniquely valuable to clients and families?  How are AI and technology changing the future of CPA advisory work?  What separates firms that successfully transition into advisory services?  Why did financial planning become part of the CPA exam evolution? How can firms prepare for the future of trusted advisory relationships?  Key Takeaways Trust remains one of the CPA profession's greatest differentiators in an increasingly complex world.  Financial planning is becoming more integrated into the CPA identity and educational pipeline.  AI is expected to enhance CPA capabilities rather than replace advisors.  Successful advisory firms combine technical expertise, relationships, governance, and talent development.  CPA financial planners are well-positioned to serve as the "quarterback" coordinating broader client advice teams. AICPA Resources: Pathways to Practicing Personal Financial Planning Rise2040: Co-creating our profession's future National Accounting Day: What Trust Looks Like in Action Celebrating CPAs This episode is brought to you by the AICPA's Personal Financial Planning Section, the premier provider of information, tools, advocacy, and guidance for professionals who specialize in providing tax, estate, retirement, risk management and investment planning advice. Also, by the CPA/PFS credential program, which allows CPAs to demonstrate competence and confidence in providing these services to their clients. Visit us online to join our community, gain access to valuable member-only benefits or learn about our PFP certificate program. Subscribe to the PFP Podcast channel at Libsyn to find all the latest episodes or search "AICPA Personal Financial Planning" on your favorite podcast app.

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Join the FICPA and longtime FICPA member Dan Henn each month as we host dynamic interview-style sessions designed to spark meaningful industry conversations. "The Practitioner's Edge” delivers practical insights for CPAs and professionals in small firms. Each episode explores strategies, trends and real-world solutions to help you run a stronger practice, serve clients better and stay ahead in a changing profession. This month, we're joined by Andy Row, CRO with CPA Site Solutions, to discuss the transformative power of tax automation for small firms. He emphasizes how shifting away from manual data entry allows practitioners to focus on high-value advisory services, ultimately increasing firm capacity without adding headcount. Roe provides a roadmap for firms to navigate the "tax automation journey," highlighting that the most successful practitioners are those who embrace standardized workflows and modern technology to solve the perennial staffing and capacity challenges facing the profession. "Automation isn't just about saving time; it's about creating the capacity to be the advisor your clients actually want you to be." Andrew Roe | LinkedIn   FICPA Members: Discover additional tools and resources in the FICPA Small Firm Suite at Small Firm Suite - Florida Institute of CPAs.

Welcome to another episode of AZREIA Show!  Thinking about investing outside your local market? In this solo episode of AZREIA Show, host Marcus Maloney shares how he successfully invests out of state from Arizona, primarily in the Chicagoland area. Rather than relying on appreciation alone, Marcus explains why he prioritizes predictable cash flow, strong fundamentals, and tax advantages to build long-term wealth. Marcus breaks down the key factors he evaluates when selecting a market, including job growth, employer diversity, wage trends, infrastructure investment, crime rates, school quality, rent-to-price ratios, inventory levels, and days on market. He also highlights the red flags investors should watch for, such as declining populations, overbuilding, excessive regulation, low cap rates, and markets heavily dependent on a single employer. You'll also learn how to assemble a dependable out-of-state team and effectively manage properties from anywhere. Marcus shares practical insights on working with agents, contractors, property managers, lenders, attorneys, and CPAs, along with the systems and technology he uses to stay organized. Whether you're considering your first out-of-state investment or looking to scale your portfolio, this episode offers a proven framework for investing with confidence. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 01:25 Why Invest Out of State 02:39 Cash Flow Philosophy 05:04 Early Mistakes to Avoid 05:45 Out of State Market Drivers 09:17 Pick the Right Market 12:27 Market Red Flags and Data 16:05 Build Your Local Team 22:10 Remote Management Systems 29:40 Rental Oversight and Reports 33:57 Biggest Investor Mistakes 36:37 Final Advice and Closing -- Contact Alden of Silver Crest Opportunity Fund at http://silvercrestopportunityfund.com "AZREIA does not endorse specific investments. Please do your own due diligence." Want to grow your real estate business?

Lisa Simpson, CPA, CGMA, vice president–Firm Services at the AICPA, discusses the evolution of AICPA Town Hall, key takeaways from Town Hall's six years of programming, and how practitioners can navigate rapid change driven by AI. She shares insights on managing "a sense of overwhelm" related to AI and highlights resources that can help firms adapt, including the AICPA and CIMA AI resource hub.  The episode also includes a segment on the latest Economic Outlook Survey results and what they signal about business sentiment, inflation, and hiring. Other resources related to the topics: The CPA.com AI resource page, which includes a vendor evaluation framework. The Town Hall landing page, which includes a registration button. The full Economic Outlook Survey results for the second quarter. What you'll learn from this episode: Lisa Simpson's recap of topics at the recent PCPS Executive Committee meeting. How AICPA Town Hall has evolved to deliver news, analysis, and practice management insights. The common comment that Simpson jokingly says she gets about Town Hall. Why many CPAs feel a sense of overwhelm about AI and how to begin addressing it. Resources, including the AICPA AI hub and CPA.com tools, that can support firm decision-making. What recent Economic Outlook Survey results reveal about inflation concerns and hiring plans.

Marketing makes the money. But the backend protects it. In this episode of The Level Up Podcast, Paul Alex breaks down the unseen leverage behind every serious business: the systems, structure, and advisors that protect what you build. Let's be real… A strong brand means nothing if your books are a disaster. A viral video means nothing if your contracts are weak. A massive revenue month means nothing if your taxes, legal structure, and compliance are completely exposed. In this episode, you'll learn: Why backend structure is just as important as front-end marketing How poor bookkeeping, weak contracts, and bad compliance can destroy your business Why serious entrepreneurs invest in CPAs, legal support, and clean systems How a strong backend gives you the confidence to scale aggressively The truth is simple: The boring work is often the most important work. Bookkeeping. Contracts. Taxes. LLC structure. Compliance. Asset protection. That is the foundation. That is the shield. That is what lets you go hard on the front end without constantly worrying about what could collapse behind you. Most people want the spotlight. But elite operators protect the vault. They organize the books. They hire the professionals. They tighten the structure. They build on solid ground. Because true wealth is not just about making money. It is about keeping it, protecting it, and building something that lasts. Secure the backend. Protect the house. And keep leveling up. Your Network is your NETWORTH! Make sure to add me on all SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS: Instagram: https://jo.my/paulalex2024 Facebook: https://jo.my/fbpaulalex2024 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGhDAD1JyGGzSQUPD9lc9HQ LinkedIn: https://jo.my/inpaulalex2024 Looking for a secondary source of income or want to become an entrepreneur? Check out one of my companies below to see if we can help you: www.CashSwipe.com FREE Copy of my book “Blue to Digital Gold - The New American Dream”www.officialPaulAlex.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sasha Orloff sits down with Solon Angel, CEO of Remitian, to explore why tax payments remain one of fintech's most overlooked infrastructure problems. They discuss the outdated systems still powering tax compliance, how AI agents are enabling a new payments layer for accountants and taxpayers, and why the convergence of regulatory change, fraud prevention, and agentic AI could transform the $7 trillion tax payment ecosystem into a seamless, deadline-free experience. -- SPONSORS: Notion Boost your startup with Notion—the ultimate connected workspace trusted by thousands worldwide! From engineering specs to onboarding and fundraising, Notion keeps your team organized and efficient. For a limited time, get 6 months of Notion AI FREE to supercharge your workflow. Claim your offer now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://notion.com/startups/puzzle⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Puzzle

Why do discovery calls eat your time and still end with “let me think about it”?In this episode, you'll hear how Meagan Bukowski stopped relying on follow-up sales calls and built a product ladder that does the qualifying and selling for her.Instead of pushing a “$1,000/mo offer,” she solved one small, urgent problem first – paid.That first yes led naturally to the next step, and then ongoing work. It's a clear, real example of how to earn trust, protect your time, and grow revenue without chasing prospects.…Link to full shownotes: https://www.businessstrategyforcpas.com/393…Want Pricing Essentials?If you feel trapped by your own accounting firm, it's not because of the work – it's how you've priced the work. Too many accountants are stuck in undercharging, overdelivering, and people-pleasing cycles. Break the pattern with my short PDF guide: 7 Pricing Essentials »It's free and you can read it in 5 minutes.I want to help you get your prices up without losing loyal clients.  …Want client interviews?310 From Exhausted to Having Her Life Back: Wendy Norman, CPA304 From 55 Down to 15 Hours; Same Take-Home Pay with Melissa Downs, EA293 What it Takes to Work 15 Hours per Week with Erica Goode, CPAComplete list:geraldinecarter.com/client-interview-episodes…FOUR ways I help overworked CPAs go down to 40 hours without losing revenue or hiring:THE EMAIL COURSE – Freegeraldinecarter.com/stop-working-weekendsStop Working Weekends will teach you how to reduce your hours without giving up revenue. THE BOOK – $9.99geraldinecarter.com/bookDown to 40 Hours – A Roadmap for CPAs to End Overworking Without Losing RevenuePEAK FREEDOM COMMUNITY – $197/mogeraldinecarter.com/peak-freedomFor solo and small accounting firm owners who want to rise above the insanity of hustle-cultureDOWN TO 40 HOURS ACCELERATOR – $995/mogeraldinecarter.com/40For the overworked CPA at multiple six figures of revenue who is ready to stop working weekends, wants to implement overdue changes, and doesn't want to do it alone. You'll make progress faster and with more confidence. …

When you have your own business, it can be hard to create the work life balance many people only dream of creating.   Although having your own business sounds like you are in control of how much and how often you work, you may hear otherwise from many small business owners.  Are they working long hours, and do you need to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to be successful?  If not, how many hours do you need to put in as a small business owner to achieve success in your small business?  Believe it or not, the most important part of this question is really how you define success in your small business.  Every business owner has their own opinion about what success means in their small business, but once you have that definition and you know what your successful business looks like, you will be able to create your work schedule around it.  You will also notice a big difference in the number of hours a startup business owner works in contrast to a more seasoned business owner.  Today I am covering many aspects of work life balance and how many hours you should be working to reach the success you are looking for in your small business.  I am talking about the many differences there can be to each individual business and how your family life will have an impact as well.  Listen in and see if you are working the right number of hours in your small business, whether you are just starting your small business, you're a solopreneur, entrepreneur, small business owner, virtual online bookkeeper or virtual assistant… Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit And Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan and overcome the obstacles that stand in your way so that you can move forward and immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

When retirement policymakers sought to incentivize small businesses to begin offering retirement plans in an effort to help close the coverage gap, they did so in part by creating greatly expanded federal tax credits that would offset their cost in providing those plans.But research has found fewer than 6% of eligible employers are properly claiming the tax credit—and that's a problem that doesn't sit well with retirement plan advisor Will Hackler, AIF, the “401(k) Fix-It Guy” who is the Managing Partner at Integrated Pension Services. Hackler says there's a real awareness problem regarding the tax credit, and that advisors need to step in to make sure eligible firms (and their tax-filing CPAs) know about and take advantage of a program intended specifically for them.In this episode, Hackler explains the tax credit, the problem and potential solutions.

Most business owners think tax season is the problem.It is not.The real problem is going the entire year without a real strategy.In this episode with Heath Hendrickson, partner at Allied Financial Partners, we talk about why so many business owners overpay in taxes, feel overwhelmed financially, and never actually understand their numbers.This is not a boring tax conversation.It is a real discussion about how smart business owners think differently.In this episode you will learn:• Why bookkeeping and tax strategy are completely different• The biggest mistakes business owners make with taxes• Why cheap CPAs can cost you more long term• What actually triggers audits• How better financial clarity changes business decisionsWe also talk about business growth, hiring, profitability, and why most owners wait too long to get serious financial help.If you own a business and feel behind financially…This episode will help.

From the explosion of ETFs to the rise of AI-powered investing, the financial world is moving fast—and this episode of the Money Matters Podcast helps make sense of it all. Join Wes Moss and Connor Miller for a lively conversation on retirement planning, Roth conversions, modern investing trends, and the growing number of financial tools competing for investors' attention. • Explore how ETFs have grown from simple index funds into a massive universe of leveraged, thematic, covered call, and factor-based strategies. • Examine why ETFs now outnumber publicly traded U.S. stocks while reviewing the risks and tradeoffs tied to leveraged and inverse funds. • Understand the differences between ETFs and mutual funds alongside the growing influence of artificial intelligence and thematic investing trends. • Clarify the difference between financial planning and investment management while comparing resources such as CPAs, estate attorneys, fee-only planners, and hourly planning networks. • Review Roth conversion considerations, tax-planning strategies, and ideas from Wes's new book, The Retire Sooner Method, on balancing financial preparation with long-term goals and lifestyle priorities. Listen and subscribe to the Money Matters Podcast for more conversations on investing, retirement planning, tax planning, market trends, and navigating today's economy with a practical long-term perspective.

Do you ever question why you lack self-discipline, and wonder if this is something you could improve in your life?  Self-discipline is much different than willpower, and when you learn how to improve your self-discipline, you will find that you can get any result you want in your professional or personal life.  You can make the decision today to increase your self-discipline so that you can enjoy your future rather than wishing you had something different to experience.  Let's dive in… Join us in a community built specifically for accountants and high-stress professionals.  You'll receive support, accountability, and a community that understands what you're going through. We focus on stress reduction, increasing productivity, time management, goal achievement, health, happiness, and desired lifestyle:  https://www.financialadventure.com/community I'm inviting you to sign up for the free private podcast where I do a deeper dive into this topic on the Mastering Your Mindset Moments podcast for high-stress professionals: https://www.financialadventure.com/private Schedule your Complimentary Stress Audit and Clarity Session, where we'll work together to create a clear and focused plan for you to move forward so you'll immediately start enjoying your life with less stress, increased productivity, and more time to spend doing what you love with the people you care about: https://www.financialadventure.com/work-with-me Accountants, CPAs, Bookkeepers, Tax Preparers & Financial Professionals, sign up here to get updates on upcoming opportunities & grab the Audit Of Your Well-Being & Balance Guide here: https://www.financialadventure.com/accountant Ready to set up your business?  I have a program to help you get your business set up so that you can start making money.  Sign up for this program here: https://www.financialadventure.com/start Are you ready to try coaching?  Schedule an Introductory Coaching Session today.  You'll have the opportunity to see how you like coaching with an Introductory Coaching Session: https://www.financialadventure.com/intro Join us in the Mastering Your Small Business Finances PROFIT LAB if you are ready to take control of your business finances and create the profitable business you are striving for.  Are you ready to generate revenues and increase the profit in your business: https://www.financialadventure.com/profit If You Are Ready To Choose, Start Or Grow Your Side Hustle, Get Your Free Checklist And Assessment Here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sidehustle Grab Your FREE guide:  5 Essential Strategies For Stress-Free Bookkeeping: https://www.financialadventure.com/5essentials Your FREE Online Virtual Bookkeeping Business Starter Guide & Success Path Is Waiting For You: https://www.financialadventure.com/starterguide Join Our Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenbusinessownersultimatediybookkeepingboutique The Strategic Bookkeeping Academy, including Bookkeeping Basics, is open for registration!  You can learn more and sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/sba Looking for a payroll solution for your business?  You can get an exclusive 15% discount on your payroll services when you sign up here: https://www.financialadventure.com/adp QuickBooks Online - Save 30% Your First 6 Months: https://www.financialadventure.com/quickbooks Sign up for a virtual coffee chat to see if starting a Bookkeeping Business is right for you: https://www.financialadventure.com/discovery Show Notes:  https://www.financialadventure.com This podcast is sponsored by Financial Adventure, LLC ~ visit https://www.financialadventure.com for additional information and free resources.

Alan Peterson is a nationally recognized, top-producing SBA lender specializing in business acquisitions, partner buyouts, and commercial real estate financing. He brings over a decade of experience with a strategic, relationship-first approach to every deal. He's a Certified Exit Planning Advisor, offering insight on both the buy-side and sell-side and is guiding his clients from pre-qualification through closing and beyond. He works with entrepreneurs, operators, business brokers, and CPAs nationwide, with a focus on manufacturing and home-services businesses. Known for prioritizing the right deal over just getting a deal done, Alan has built long-term partnerships rooted in trust and execution. Based in Tampa, Florida, he is also a founding board member of Fostering Hearts and a dedicated husband and father." During the show we discuss: Why buying a business can be faster and less risky than starting one How SBA loans actually work for acquisitions, buyouts, and real estate What lenders look for when evaluating deal strength and borrower eligibility How to structure acquisition deals with little money out of pocket The key mistakes that kill SBA deals before they get approved How to position yourself as a strong borrower—even without perfect credentials Why exit planning matters and how to build value from day one How to use financing as a tool to scale through ownership, not just effort Resources: https://www.firstib.com/

In this episode of the Tax Rep Network Podcast, host Eric Green sits down with former IRS Office of Fraud Enforcement advisor Esther Robinson for an inside look at how civil tax audits can turn into criminal investigations. From fraud development and civil fraud penalties to IRS Criminal Investigation referrals and real-world case stories, Eric and Esther break down what tax professionals need to know when dealing with potential fraud issues. They discuss the role of the IRS Office of Fraud Enforcement, the warning signs examiners look for, why some cases become criminal while others stay civil, and the costly consequences taxpayers face when crossing the line. Packed with practical insights, behind-the-scenes IRS procedures, and war stories from the field, this episode is a must-listen for CPAs, EAs, attorneys, and anyone handling IRS controversy work.Join us for the webinar covering this in-depth on June 4th by registering here: https://taxrepllc.com/20260604-fraud/Want to connect with Esther? Contact her at: Esther@treestoneadvisory.com.

A Max Profits Mentorship client followed AI's recommendations on their Meta ads campaign and watched their revenue drop from $268K to $196K in a single month. Ad spend % climbed from 30% to 40%. $72,000 gone.In this audio-exclusive episode, Dylan breaks down exactly what went wrong and the one rule that would've saved this client $72K in revenue. Here's what he covers:The AI-generated report that looked flawless on the surface: charts, CPAs, audience breakdowns, the works (and the one thing nobody thought to double-check)Why the CPA numbers in the report were 25–50% off from what Meta was actually reportingThe single decision that tanked the campaign from a 2.67 ROAS down to 1.8 and $23 CPA to $34The difference between using AI to analyze your ads vs. optimize your ads (and why the second one will burn you)The AI hallucination problem nobody talks about and the context AI will never have about your businessThis isn't an anti-AI episode. We use AI every single day at The Ecommerce Alley. But there's one thing you should never hand the reins to and this $72K mistake is exactly why.---

Most business owners think taking all income as salary is the safest move. It's not. In this episode, we break down the tax strategy behind paying yourself the right way—and how getting it wrong can cost you thousands. You'll learn what “reasonable compensation” really means and how to balance salary and distributions to reduce taxes. We also cover how this impacts tax savings, the qualified business income deduction, and long-term wealth planning. This is clear, practical CPA advice focused on tax strategies, tax planning, and smarter money decisions. If you're running an S corp or thinking about it, this episode is critical. Listen now before you overpay the IRS again.   Next Steps: ➡️ Overpaying your CPA and the IRS? Learn how to stop it in this free training: https://go.phillipsbusinessgroup.com/registration

Caitlin Embree and Morgan Hamon from EAG Dental Advisors bridge the gap between daily operations and proactive financial management for dentists. Transitioning from clinician to CEO requires deep financial clarity. Most owners only speak to their CPA during tax season, but advanced financial management for dentists transforms raw data into insights that fuel long-term dental practice profitability.  If your goal is sustainable dental practice growth, this is your survival guide. Morgan explains how specialized CPAs act as your financial radiologist—diagnosing cash flow bottlenecks—so your dental practice management team can perform the operational surgery. We explore why standard profit and loss statements hide critical metrics like debt service.  Here is your blueprint to master dental business strategies and dental practice ownership:Master the Rule of Threes: Hygienists must produce three times their total pay to sustain dental practice profitability.  Calculate Cash Reserves: Keep one to two months of break-even capital, combining operating expenses and debt service, to eliminate stress. Optimize Distributions: Implement structured monthly or quarterly distributions to maximize personal wealth.  Demand Strategy: Stop accepting tax-season surprises. Demand year-round communication to track liabilities as you scale.  Proactive financial management for dentists protects your revenue. Contact Morgan Hamon at morgan.hamon@eisneramper.com or visit https://eagdentaladvisors.com/.  Ready to take the next step in your dental practice journey? Visit https://sharedpractices.com to learn more about our Buyer Representation and Coaching services, designed to help dentists buy, grow, and optimize profitable practices. You can also use our Free Look to evaluate dental practice opportunities with real data before making a decision. For daily Dental Moneyball insights, strategy tips, and updates, follow us across our social channels.

This episode explores how AI is changing the way financial advisors approach tax planning and client service. Steven Jarvis speaks with Fernando San Martin from Altruist about Hazel, an AI-powered tax planning tool designed to help advisors uncover opportunities in tax returns. Fernando explains that the focus is not on replacing advisors or CPAs, but on enhancing their ability to deliver consistent, high-quality insights at scale. The conversation highlights how tools like Hazel can surface tax-saving opportunities, save advisors time, and improve client conversations around tax strategy. They also discuss the importance of starting with client outcomes before selecting tools and how AI can help bridge the gap between personalization and scale.  https://zurl.co/X2oJU

This episode was sponsored by Cardiff & The Complete Real Estate Group LightSpeed VT: https://www.lightspeedvt.com/ Dropping Bombs Podcast: https://www.droppingbombs.com/ Today's Dropping Bombs episode opens with a gut punch: Cory Boldroff was told he had terminal liver cancer — and didn't tell a soul. The top 1% real estate producer who studied for his license behind bars at 19 quietly doubled his life insurance, then healed through a 30-day parasite cleanse his doctor flat-out refused to acknowledge. The conversation goes further. Cory breaks down 14 legal strategies to legally eliminate capital gains taxes, why most CPAs miscalculate them by six figures, and how his senior transition empire (including a nationwide franchise with the star of Hoarders) is quietly reshaping generational wealth. From felony to franchise to staring down death — this man has earned every word of this conversation. [Insert Timestamps here]