The Bottom Line

Cyber criminals have seriously damaged some household names recently - M&S, Co-op, North Face, Harrods - but what really happens behind the scenes when a business is hacked?Evan Davis speaks to the former head of information security at Royal Mail about the major attack it suffered in 2023 - from the initial alert and the eye-watering ransom demand, to the media leak and the long, slow rebuild.Plus, how should you negotiate with hackers, how sophisticated have they become, and how do they choose their victims?Evan is joined by:Jon Staniforth, former Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) at Royal Mail; Lisa Forte, founder and partner, Red Goat.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Nathan Chamberlain and James Beard Production co-ordinator: Sophie Hill and Janet Staples

Discussing pay is one of society's big taboos - it's just not the done thing to ask other people what they earn. And it can be even more hush-hush in the workplace - we're not told to keep quiet, but somehow everyone does. And yet, most of us would love to know what our colleagues earn. So would lifting the lid on salaries trigger resentment and frustration, or be a tool for fairness and accountability? Evan Davis explores the pros and cons of pay transparency — from closing gender pay gaps to boosting retention – and speaks to one boss who's tried a radical approach. Is it the next frontier in corporate accountability, or does the culture of secrecy still serve a purpose? Evan is joined by: Bob Leung, CEO, Grant Tree; Justine Woolf, Director of Consulting, Innecto; Clare Kelliher, Professor of Work and Organisation, Cranfield University School of Management. Production team: Producer: Osman Iqbal Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Neil Churchill and Pete Wise Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

The definitive business podcast from the BBC. Each week host Evan Davis is joined by company bosses, entrepreneurs and industry experts, who lift the lid on how the world of business really works, and what it's like to be in charge. From managing AI to managing millennials, from supermarkets to supercharging a new product, the panel tackles the big issues, big challenges, or big questions facing their industry. And they share stories of success and failure along the way, revealing the personalities and human dramas behind some of our best-known brands. The Bottom Line also has a spin-off series – Decisions That Made Me – of one-on-one interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders about the pivotal moments in their careers. These shorter episodes take a deep dive into the moments of opportunity, risk, or crisis that have defined some of the UK's best-known business figures. Podcasts are published every Thursday. The Bottom Line is a BBC Long Form Audio Production for BBC Radio 4.

President Trump's tariffs on Chinese imports have shaken up the global economic order, but why have so many brands turned to China to make their products in the first place, and how exactly do they do it? Evan Davis talks to three company bosses to find out what it's really like doing business in the Far East and whether it's still as cheap and easy as it used to be. And if high tariffs persist, or get higher, where else in the world could do China's job?Evan is joined by:Nick Grey, founder and CEO, Gtech; Kate Sbuttoni, founder, The Ginger Jar Lamp Co.; Jonathan Duck, CEO, Amtico InternationalProduction team:Producer: Simon Tulett Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Jonny Baker and Nigel Appleton Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Richard Farleigh grew up poverty-stricken in outback Australia as one of eleven children. When he was an infant, he was taken into care and spent the majority of his childhood in a foster home. A love of puzzles, a determination to prove himself, and some teachers who believed in his abilities, helped him gain a scholarship to university. From there he became a successful investment fund manager, eventually retiring at 34 to become an entrepreneur, and later an angel investor. The former dragon talks to Evan Davis about his new book Humble Stumbles, and how some of his early entrepreneurial decisions didn't work out quite as well as he'd hoped. Production team: Producers: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison Photo credit: Visual Marvels

The child of immigrant parents to Australia, Erinch was taught to want a stable life. He was having a successful career at Proctor and Gamble, but one day had a realisation that this was not what he wanted to be doing with his life. Now Erinch is a business and enterprise lead at the Doughnut Economics Action Lab, and designs businesses so they follow a social or ecological purpose. The social enterprise expert talks to Evan Davis about how he dealt with discovering his values were not aligning with his career path and what he did next. Production team: Producers: Nick Holland and Simon Tulett Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

After 14 years of having a successful career in media, Sophie found herself unemployed. She thought with her skills and experience finding a new role would be easy, but it was the opposite. After struggling with applications and repeated denials, Sophie decided she wanted to change the process of applying for a job. The employment specialist talks to Evan Davis about how she's trying to change the way recruitment works with her business Pollen Careers. Production team: Producers: Nick Holland Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

At a time when coding and IT was in its infancy, Sir Kenneth fortuitously took a computer class to get out of cross country running; that choice would shape the rest of his life. From an internship at IBM, he later went on to a senior position at Wang laboratories, but then was fired after an unsuccessful management buyout. He eventually struck out on his own and founded two merchant banks. The entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about the moment he was fired after trying to engineer a management buyout, and then what happened next. Production team: Producers: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When a family member gets sick, it can mean major changes to our lives. For Chris May, it meant he needed a role that could be done entirely from home. He quit his job, and created his own enterprise doing management consulting. One of the contracts he had after that was to create a report on the standards of north London hospitals. Instead of just a report, Chris created an entire database, and his work snowballed from there. The health technology entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about how he eventually created the database for the entire NHS. Production team: Producers: Nick Holland and Simon Tulett Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Grief hits everyone differently. For Claire Daniels, it changed her life; she had been working as the head of marketing for a technology firm and believed she'd keep climbing the corporate ladder, but after her brother's death she found herself needing time out and quit. Later she began working for her sister in law's business as a stopgap measure while she got herself back on track, but then that ended up becoming permanent. The marketing executive talks to Evan Davis about what it was like to work for family, and how she eventually became CEO of Trio media. Production team: Producer: Bob Howard Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

An early passion for the high street meant Julian Metcalfe was determined to get into retail from the get-go. He and his partner Sinclair Beecham founded Pret A Manger when he was just 26. In 2008 Pret was sold to a private equity firm, and Julian no longer had a say in the company's future. Now Julian is in charge of Itsu, an Asian-inspired fast-food chain. The food entrepreneur talks to Evan Davis about how he is determined not to lose his decision-making role this time around. Production team: Producer: Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Sonnaz Nooranvary thought she'd have to be a doctor or a lawyer to please her parents, but struggled academically thanks to a combination of dyslexia and ADHD. Everything changed when she spotted an advert for an upholstery apprenticeship. She dropped out of college to build yachts from scratch. The upholsterer talks to Evan Davis about how she went against her family's expectations to follow her instincts. Production team: Producer: Bob Howard Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison Photo credit: Luke David

When high street travel firm Thomas Cook collapsed in 2019, it triggered the biggest ever peacetime repatriation, with 150,000 holidaymakers needing to be brought home. Alan French was the Group Strategy and Technology director at the time and had to preside over the disaster. Despite that, he was determined to revive the company and the next year relaunched Thomas Cook as a digital only brand. The travel executive talks to Evan Davis about how he managed to turn his fortunes around and resurrect the Thomas Cook name.Production team: Producer: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: John Scott Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

How would you invest £100k? Do entrepreneurs have super-human levels of optimism? How can you keep ownership of a great idea? In a first for The Bottom Line, Evan Davis puts questions like these - sent in by listeners - to a panel of business experts.Evan is joined by: Sir Kenneth Olisa - chairman, Restoration Partners, and formerly founder and CEO, Interregnum; Richard Farleigh - angel investor and former Dragon's Den 'dragon'; Jessica Spungin - adjunct professor of strategy and entrepreneurship, London Business School.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Sound: Rod Farquhar Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Matt Willis

Self-checkouts have become a staple in supermarkets, fast food chains and other shops, but now some companies are reconsidering their use. Evan Davis explores the technology's role in the retail landscape and asks whether we've reached peak self-checkout, or if they're just a step on the way to an even more digitised shopping future. With insights from industry leaders and experts, he examines the economics behind un-manned tills, generational differences in consumer acceptance, and their links to a recent rise in shoplifting. Plus, is automation actually making our lives easier, and what's lost if the personal touch disappears from shopping?Guests: Julian Metcalfe, founder, Itsu; Robert Elsey, chief digital and information officer, Co-op Natalie Berg, retail analyst and host of the Retail Disrupted podcastPresenter: Evan Davis Producers: Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Sound: Rod Farquhar Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Matt Willis

After a year in which a number of big companies decided to list in New York rather than the UK, Evan Davis asks what can be done to attract firms to the London Stock Exchange. With Julia Hoggett, CEO at the London Stock Exchange, Charles Hall, Head of Research at the investment bank Peel Hunt and Conor Lawlor, Managing Director, Global Banking Markets and International Affairs at UK finance.

With the success of the BBC programme The Repair Shop, Evan Davis examines the business opportunities of companies which offer to repair things from clothes through to electronics. Is it easier to try and fix something yourself or pay for it to be done professionally? Do we still have the skills that previous generations had to do even relatively simple things like sewing on buttons? With Kyle Wiens, CEO of Ifixit, Katharine Beacham, Head of Sustainability, Clothing & Home at Marks and Spencer and upholstery repair expert and Repair Shop presenter Sonnaz Nooranvary.

Major US businesses have begun ditching or scaling back their diversity initiatives. Will UK firms be next? Evan Davis is joined by three guests who specialise on diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) schemes, as well as environmental and sustainability issues. Do they see signs of UK companies shifting their stance? And to what extent is the DEI industry - and their jobs - under threat? Guests: Daniel Fellows, General Manager of Diversio UK and EU Erinch Sahan, busines and enterprise lead at Doughnut Economics Action Lab Chris Turner, Executive Director of B Lab UK Production team Producers: Farhana Haider, Simon Tulett and Eleanor Harrison-Dengate Sound: James Beard Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Matt Willis

Evan Davis talks to the Estonian Ahti Heinla, co-founder of robot delivery firm Starship Technologies, which is hoping to expand across the UK. Evan hears about Ahti's early life in Estonia, how he competed in a Nasa competition, the start of the delivery system in Milton Keynes and how he thinks robot deliveries will grow in the future in Britain and worldwide.

Can businesses operate without managers? It's an idea Amazon, Meta and Citigroup are exploring. Evan hears from the leaders of three companies who've already tried working that way, but with varying degrees of success.Guests: Chris May: Founder of Mayden Hazel Brown: CEO of Cornerstone Luke Kyte: Operations Director of ReddicoPresenter: Evan Davis Producers: Nick Holland and Bob Howard Sound: James Beard Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Matt Willis

Evan Davis explores if working the traditional five day week could be replaced by working four, eight hour days. Could working more efficiently benefit employees and bosses? With Joe Ryle, director of the 4 Day Week Campaign, Claire Daniels, CEO of Trio Media and Jen Thompson, managing director of the Crate Brewery.

The advertising exec behind some of the most successful adverts of recent decades shares some of the decisions that have influenced his career, including an early decision to accept a lower salary and instead pursue and opportunity that would bring him more opportunities. Sir John would go out to co-found successful agencies Bartle Bogle Hegarty, and Saatchi and Saatchi. Today, Sir John says he shuns five year plans, instead focusing on 'five minute plans' and says he tries to make each day as interesting as it can be. Production team: Producer: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

Evan Davis gets up-to-date tips on finding a new job and hears how the process of making yourself stand out to an employer has changed over the years.Episode guests: Sophie O'Brien: CEO and Founder of Pollen Careers Depesh Nathwani: CEO of The Consumer Helpline Group Shan Saba: Director of Brightwork StafflinePresenter: Evan Davis Producers: Bob Howard and Nick Holland Production Co-ordinator: Katie Morrison Sound: Rod Farqhuar & Francesca Editor: Matt WillisThe Bottom Line is produced in partnership with The Open University.

Career clarity can be hard to find in the middle of a demanding 9 to 5, but sometimes getting away from it all for a while can make you realise what you really want from work. For Dana Denis-Smith, the world's highest mountain range did the trick. She tells Evan Davis how it inspired her to turn her back on an unfulfilling legal career, and later to start up her own company, Obelisk Support, which champions the talents of mothers who don't want to - or can't - return to work full time.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When your background differs from the people working with and around you, it's easy to feel judged by the assumptions people make about you from class to gender. Whatever your upbringing, it's something we all deal with - our backgrounds are always with us, either to be embraced, accepted, or fled from. Jordan Brompton, entrepreneur and co-founder of the smart energy tech company Myenergi, shares her experience as a working class woman and her love of solar panels.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When do you start that side hustle you've always talked about doing? What if it gets you fired from work? And even if you do leave, make your success and build your hustle into a successful business, can you ever decide to step away and go back to your career? Julian Douglas, global CEO of advertising agency VCCP, talks to Evan Davis about his decision to go in to advertising, being fired for his night life start up, and then walking away from the company he founded to go back to his former career. Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When your business is about making products, and the factory you use gets into trouble, that's potentially a big problem. Do you try to find another one, or do you try to fix it? Rob Law, entrepreneur and inventor of the Trunki children's suitcase, had exactly this dilemma, and tells Evan Davis about the risky decision it prompted.He also discusses the illness and personal loss that have shaped his career, and recalls his infamous appearance on Dragon's Den almost 20 years ago.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When inventor Tom Pellereau was on the verge of launching his latest invention for his fashion company, Stylideas, he couldn't have known what a key decision was about to face him. The Apprentice winner talks to Evan Davis about his business relationship with Alan Sugar, his passion for design and his experience of dyslexia that all led to a stand off over pricing that would make or break his company.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

What do you do when you're unhappy at work? Maybe you're burnt out from long hours? Or you see the way your employer does things and think to yourself “surely there's a better way?” For many founders and CEO's, it's a familiar experience, and one that can spur them into the decision of starting their own business. Evan Davis talks to Elmarie Marais about her experience of crisis management, and how a crisis of her own led to the founding of her own company, GoCrisis.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When do you start that side hustle you've always talked about doing? What if it gets you fired from work? And even if you do leave, make your success and build your hustle into a successful business, can you ever decide to step away and go back to your career? Julian Douglas, global CEO of advertising agency VCCP, talks to Evan Davis about his decision to go in to advertising, being fired for his night life start up, and then walking away from the company he founded to go back to his former career.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie MorrisonPicture Credit: VCCP/Dan Burn-Forti

When your background differs from the people working with and around you, it's easy to feel judged by the assumptions people make about you from class to gender. Whatever your upbringing, it's something we all deal with - our backgrounds are always with us, either to be embraced, accepted, or fled from. Jordan Brompton, entrepreneur and co-founder of the smart energy tech company Myenergi, shares her experience as a working class woman and her love of solar panels.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

When your business is about making products, and the factory you use gets into trouble, that's potentially a big problem. Do you try to find another one, or do you try to fix it? Rob Law, entrepreneur and inventor of the Trunki children's suitcase, had exactly this dilemma, and tells Evan Davis about the risky decision it prompted. He also discusses the illness and personal loss that have shaped his career, and recalls his infamous appearance on Dragon's Den almost 20 years ago.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison

You've had a brilliant business idea. At least, you think you have. What do you do next? Evan Davis speaks to three successful entrepreneurs- including former contestants on The Apprentice and Dragons' Den. Where do the best ideas come from and how do you know when they are worth pursuing? What are the top tips for pitching and when is it time to let an idea go?Evan is joined by Rob Law, the inventor of the Trunki ride-on suitcase for kids, Pippa Murray, founder of the nut butter brand Pip & Nut and Tom Pellereau, who invented the curved nail file for his company Stylideas.Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: Getty Images, Credit: Teerachai Jampanak)

Advertising agencies and marketing people use different techniques to push our buttons. Humour is one. But what about fear? Do they sometimes try to scare us into buying? Or is it a gentler art- playing on our insecurities about things like old age, poor health or thinning hair? Evan Davis speaks to Sir John Hegarty and Ian Gathard from the advertising industry and psychologist Juliane Beard, who studies how the brains of consumers work.Credits: Volkswagen "Eyes on the Road" advertising stunt Reebok trainers advertisement: "Lose the Beer Belly" Aviva home insurance advertisementProduction team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Neil Churchill Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: Piccadilly Circus in London, Light Trails at night. Credit: Jonathan Herbert, JH Images via Getty Images)

When Shivaun and Adam Raff's shopping and price comparison website all but vanished from Google's search results just days after launching, the pair began a gruelling legal battle that would end with a landmark judgement and the tech giant receiving a then record fine.European regulators found the search engine guilty of abusing its market dominance by making its own shopping recommendations appear more prominently than rivals' in its search results. Google spent seven years appealing its €2.4bn fine, but eventually lost in September this year.In their first interview since that verdict the Raffs tell Evan Davis the story behind their website - Foundem - and what they learned about big tech, regulation, and themselves during their almost 20-year fight.Evan is joined by:Shivaun and Adam Raff, co-founders, Foundem; Anne Witt, professor of law, EDHEC business school.Credits:President Barack speaking to Kara Swisher, from the technology news website Recode, in February 2015; Joaquín Almunia speaking at a European Commission press conference in February 2014; Margarethe Vestager speaking at a European Commission press conference in June 2017. Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Jonny Baker and Neil Churchill Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: The Google logo displayed on a mobile phone and computer monitor. Credit: Leon Neal/Getty Images/BBC)

When a company finds itself facing war or natural disaster how can it get staff out of harm's way, and is there any chance of ensuring business as usual?Evan Davis speaks to one business leader who helped move hundreds of staff out of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia when war broke out in 2022. Two crisis response companies explain how they have been helping clients with people and operations in Lebanon, Israel and parts of the USA recently hit by hurricanes.Plus, what is an employer's obligation in these situations, and do the same rules apply to international as well as local hires?Evan is joined by:Ann Roberts, chief people officer, Flo; James Waddington, global director of security assistance, International SOS; Elmarie Marais, founder and CEO, GoCrisis; and Anna, an employee at Wildix.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett Researchers: Drew Hyndman and Michaela Graichen Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Pete Wise and Tim Heffer Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison(Picture: A Ukrainian flag flies from a destroyed building in Mariupol, April 2022. Credit: Reuters/Alexander Ermochenko/BBC)

It must be one of the most-maligned professions out there - on a par, perhaps, with traffic wardens - but debt collectors perform a vital service to businesses and the wider economy. So why do we love to despise them? Evan Davis and guests discuss the industry's inner workings, from the public image of aggressive, burly bailiffs, to the reality of repayment plans prompted by artificial intelligence. We ask how most try to ensure they collect debts fairly, and also hear the other side of the debt story - how damaging and stressful it can be for businesses who desperately need the money.Plus, why do we find it so hard to talk about debt in the UK? We hear about the industry's efforts to tackle the stigma.Evan is joined by:John Pears, UK CEO, Lowell; Amon Ghaiumy, co-founder and CEO, Ophelos; Dana Denis-Smith, CEO and founder, Obelisk Support.Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett Researcher: Farhana Haider Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Dafydd Evans and Sarah Hockley Production co-ordinators: Rosie Strawbridge and Katie Morrison

Side hustlers are seemingly everywhere - some surveys suggest they account for around half of UK workers - and stories of getting rich quick and abandoning the 9-5 are plenty. But the reality for many is much less glamorous: long hours; a precarious balancing act with the day job; and a good chance of failure. Evan Davis speaks to side hustlers, and their employers, to find out what it's really like balancing two jobs at once. Plus, why is side hustling so popular anyway? Does it reveal a flourishing entrepreneurial spirit in the UK, particularly among young workers, or is it a symptom of a changing relationship between employer and employee?Evan is joined by:Julian Douglas, global CEO, VCCP; Ewen MacPherson, chief people officer, Havas UK; Karen Burke, founder, Go Goosey. Production team:Producer: Simon Tulett Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Nicola Brough and Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

The UK's power grid is undergoing a huge shift towards renewable energy, but running homes and businesses solely on this new form of electricity will be a delicate balancing act and will pose new choices for consumers.Evan Davis and guests discuss the challenge of matching supply - from wind and solar - with an increased demand from electric vehicles and homes using heat pumps rather than gas boilers. Part of the solution could be consumers themselves - homes with EVs, solar panels or battery storage could act like mini power plants, sending energy back to the grid, as well as taking from it, and getting paid in the process. But that two-way exchange could bring harder decisions - would you let your energy company switch off your fridge for an hour to ease pressure on the grid? Evan is joined by: Cordi O'Hara, president of UK electricity distribution, National Grid; Hamish Phillips, net zero business development director, Centrica; Jordan Brompton, co-founder and chief marketing officer, Myenergi.Production team: Producer: Simon Tulett Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Jonny Baker and Tim Heffer Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Every year has its business highs and lows which we don't often get an opportunity to chew over on The Bottom Line.This year is different. To mark our end of term, we thought we'd reflect on the business year and look at some of the highs and lows across the business landscape, creating our very own (unofficial) Bottom Line Business Awards. Three panellists, three categories, three nominations. Joining Evan are: Jessica Spungin, Adjunct Professor of Strategy and Entrepreneurship at London Business School Sir Ken Olisa, Lord-Lieutenant of Greater London and Chair and founder of Restoration Partners, a bank for entrepreneurs And Nishma Patel Robb, current President of Women in Advertising and Communications Leadership and founder and CEO of The Glittersphere. Formerly Senior Director of Marketing at Google UK.PRODUCTION TEAM: Producers: Drew Hyndman and Alex Lewis Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge

Private schools in the UK are mostly registered as charities – but they are also businesses – businesses in the sense that they sell a service to paying customers. They've recently been in the news because the new government has said it will remove their exemption from VAT. In this episode we take a look at the business of private education: how it works, how much money is made and what will happen when exemption from VAT is removed from school fees.Evan Davis is joined by: Geoffrey Stanford, Head of Royal Grammar School Newcastle Jesse Elzinga Head of Sevenoaks School Cheryl Giovannoni, CEO, Girls' Day School Trust (GDST) Duncan Murphy, Director of Education, MTM ConsultingPRODUCTION TEAM: Producers: Drew Hyndman and Alex Lewis Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge and Janet Staples

All eyes have been on the new prime minister as he, and his team of ministers, settle into their jobs running the country.In this episode we consider the management challenge of taking over and starting a new role, maybe changing the direction of an organisation. Three leaders from the world of business and the charity sector share their experience of coming in as a new broom, reflecting on the mistakes they made and advice they'd offer to the new Prime Minister.Evan Davis is joined by: Stuart Hill, UK CEO, DHL Rachel Roxburgh, former CEO, Dallaglio RugbyWorks Alan French, CEO, Thomas Cook PRODUCTION TEAM: Producers: Alex Lewis, Drew Hyndman, Miriam Quayyum and Diane Richardson Editor: Matt Willis Sound: James Beard and Hal Haines Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison and Rosie Strawbridge