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From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

Learning abut Curiosity Friday 2023!

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in Community Building | With Mitch Haralson, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

From Starfire, this is a podcast on what's more possible in inclusion, community, building and relationships.

In our third and final episode of our Family Mentors conversation series, we discuss the "what" behind "what" we do at Starfire.

In the second of three "Family Mentor" episodes, Starfire Family Mentors are joined by Starfire's Director, Development & Marketing Robbie Jennings Michels. Together, they have an impactful conversation about "how" they do all that they do.

Starfire's Director, Development & Marketing Robbie Jennings Michels is joined by three other important members of the Starfire family. Together, they discuss the "why" behind all that they do.

This show is all about building connections and building community, but what's at stake if we don't? On this episode, you'll hear from Denny and his story about Don, an irascible old coot as he likes to affectionately call him, and how he helped Don get back to his community roots after being institutionalized for 30 years. This is such an important story to remember how far we have come. But also what's at stake if we don't do this work.

Full transcript can be found at www.starfirecincy.org/podcast

Zoom Call Crafts Club is one of the innovations that Anne and Ric brought to 2020. In this episode, you'll learn about the ways Ric and Anne have designed community around the barriers a pandemic and social distancing bring. Highlights: Hear about how they've kept in touch with friends virtually Reflect on the current events related to racial injustice and police brutalityAnne reads her poetry Learn about a project they're working on for greeting cards to isolated people Listen to PART ONE to hear how they began their work together and made connections initially, pre-pandemic. GET THE PODCAST “Um, well, my poetry is very inspirational and very creative. I've been writing lots of poetry about what's been going on in the pandemic right now.” —Anne Katie B: Anne and Ric are cohosts of this next episode. This is part two, if you'd like to go back to listen to the first part recorded one year ago you can go back and do that. This is documentation of life during a pandemic. What does it look like to build community, design community, and connect with other artists in your neighborhood when there are social distancing rules and everything is virtual? So you'll notice how some things change and some things stay the same. Anne also reads her poetry in this episode, so there's lots packed in here. I hope you get a lot out of hearing from these two. They have so much wisdom to share around building community and making connections.(1:01 – 4:40)Ric: OK so we are rolling now, today is Tuesday August 18th 2020, my name is Ric James and I'm a community connector with StarfireAnne: I'm Anne Elizabeth Gearhardt I'm almost 23 tomorrow. I am a poety and I'm also an artistRic: Indeed you are. Happy birthday to you! We are on Anne's back porch right now, nice covered screened in pation and if you listen closely you might hear rain falling Anne: And thunderRic: In spite of the rain it's a beautiful day, and thank you Anne for sitting down for this interview today.Anne: You're welcome!Ric: So we have been working one on one in the Starfire community connecting program for a couple years now. And as many people know if you're listening to this we are in the middle of a global pandemic, which is kind of a big deal! It's an interesting time to be alive, it's also a scary time because we have a lot of anxiety and uncertainty about the future, but we have already discussed this, Anne, you and I, about how the pandemic is affecting things around the world. But the Starfire mission - to help create a more inclusive future – our mission isn't changing, but our methods are changing. So today we just wanted to talk to you about what we've been doing to help you maintain your connections and friendships and help kind of deepen and strengthen the relationships in your community, and tell us about some of the people we've met together, some of the friends you've made, and how you've stayed connected during the pandemic.Anne: Well I haven't talked to my friends in a while because of what happened with the pandemic. They have businesses still shut down, I've been connecting with Maria and Trace from Luckman's coffee shopRic: Yes Maria and Trace have been great friends to us as we've set up our unofficial headquarters, which we haven't been able to go to since the pandemic, but our regular visits there definitely started to form a bond and a real friendship with those two. Maria recently joined your zoom call crafts club, correct?Anne: That's correct!Ric: Let's not get too far ahead, tell me about the zoom call crafts club (4:40 – 11:55)Anne: Well the Zoom Crafts Club is when you can get together and make your own personal art, all together, but you can do it online by zoom. And you can make other things on your own.Ric: Yeah, this has been a really interesting experience for us to explore together because before the pandemic, one of our things to do together was about once a month at your local branch of the library they had try it out Tuesday. A librarian there named John would host a crafts event and with a small group of people we would create something there. And once the pandemic shut things down a lot of their locations and their various programs they offer, you and I were looking for a way to continue making arts and crafts projects with the people that you met in the community, specifically Sherry Clink, who we met at the library. She has been a regular member and contributor to your zoom call crafts club. Tell us about Sherry.Anne: She's very fun, and very creative, and a great friend to have. Yeah, she's a wonderful woman.Ric: She really is, I found that when you and I came up with this idea together after we did a zoom call, we said well what if we did a zoom call where you bring whatever art supplies you want, so while we're on the zoom call you can be drawing or sketching or painting. In your case Anne because you're an artist and a poet you were also writing poetry, reading some of your poetry during the zoom call, and we were able to draft Sherry into that call right away. And to her credit she is a great creative thinker because she was enjoying our zoom call craft club right away, but she also had a suggestion for us to join in with this art class we did together where we did a vision board workshop, do you remember that? Anne: YeahRic: What did you think about that? Anne: I think it was really fun! I already made my vision board, and it was really fun just to get extra creativeRic: Exactly, I thought that was an interesting experience because if you'll recall that was 2 weeks a row we were on a zoom call with a large group – 35 or 40 people. Most of them were just the audience and then there was the instructor. The first week she told us about a vision board and then the next week we got to talk about what we were working on with our vision board, and that was all Sherry's idea. She brought that suggestion to the zoom call crafts club. So she's not just a contributor in the zoom call crafts club, which I sometimes call the ZCC, wait its 3 Z's, ZCCC, so we've done a couple of these virtual events together with Sherry and I think that's done a great deal to help you and Sherry deepen and strengthen a friendship we started at the library late last year before this pandemic. So who is the newest member of the ZCCC?Anne: Um that would be MariaRic: Correct, our favorite barista at Luckman Coffee on Beechmont. And in all fairness to Trace, maybe we should say Maria and Trace are tied for first. They have been so good to us for so long, you can tell every time we walk in there they really care about you. Didn't you go there once with your mom so they could meet?Anne: Yeah, we did.Ric: Yeah, so our most recent crafts club meeting we were joined by Maria, and so now our group is up to four members and we have extended the invitation also to Trace at Luckman, so hopefully he will be able to join us soon and then I won't be the only dude in the club anymore. But moving forward with the zoom call crafts club, what do you see there? What would you like to do as a group with Sherry and Maria?Anne: Well I've been making lots of fun, creative bookmarks lately.Ric: Bookmarks?Anne: Yes.Anne: And also poetry, and I want to combine them all together so I can talk about what has been going on with this pandemic and what's happened to George Floyd.I don't mean to get to overwhelmed about this story about George Floyd, but Derek Chauvin, he's the one who killed him.Ric: The officer?Anne: The officer, yeah.Anne: When Derek Chauvin did that to George Floyd I actually felt bad about what happened and I was scared the whole time and it made me feel angry about it and that's how other people have been feeling about what happened, and yeahRic: I agree with you and I'm glad you feel free to speak your mind, as you should. You're in your own home and you are entitled to your feelings, and during this interview you should speak freely as you see fit. And I agree with you, with George Floyd, murdered in cold blood, I know that most police officers are good, but there is a problem in this country and that is an extreme incident that has a lot of us taking a closer look at the racial inequalities in this country, you know systematic racism. And so you have a voice and you should be heard, and I think this is something, this is a theme I hear recurring every day, and that is basically you have a voice and you should own it and be proud of it and speak your mind. Tell us, if you don't mind, just a little bit about your poetry, what it means to you, maybe what you've been working on lately. (11:55 – 14:20) Anne: Well my poetry is very inspirational and very creative, I've been writing a lot about the pandemic, what's going on in the world right now. Ric: Do you have any recent poems or something you've written that you'd like to share?Anne: I do actually, I have one poem. Just for now.Ric: Would you like to read it?Anne: Yeah of course! Before I read it, this poem is for everybody who is listening to this recording right now. This poem is very very inspirational it's for all of you guys. Okay, Poem of the Day:You are beautiful just like you. That is you are just like in life.am your voice, I am a woman, has a Heart just like you, if I was you, always right on your voice. So that poem is all about who you are in lifeRic: You know it's interesting to me because there is this theme of self empowerment that runs through your poetry and it's very strong, very positive recurring theme in your poetry and I'm really impressed by that and it flows very naturally from you, that's why I thought it was interesting that our new friend Sherry suggested the vision board workshop for the three of us because I think even though you met her not too long ago she already saw that this was something that might resonate with you. Because that was a similar kind of self empowerment exercise and self visualization, to actually put down in pictures and words your thoughts that you wanted to manifest in your future and so I thought that was interesting that Sherry could already see even though you're friendship is pretty new that this was something that would resonate with you and I feel like you both really enjoyed that. (14:20 – 20:04)Ric: There was one other thing that I wanted to mention because the zoom call crafts club that we started with Sherry and our newest member Maria was part of a conversation recently where the four of us were talking about bringing our energies together to create something for the community, and I thought it was interesting that basically you and Sherry came up with this idea that you could contribute poetry and the three of us, now four of us, with Maria joining and hopefully the group will include Trace, also very soon, who is a great artist, he used to draw with us now and then at the coffee shop. We are talking about as a group creating some sort of greeting cards or post cards that we would design together and then incorporate your poetry and to send these cards to local people who are feeling isolated right now because of the pandemic. We could send them to say senior citizens in retirement communitiesAnne: We can also make some for my Kroger where I workRic: MmhmmAnne: Because I think my Kroger always needs something to brighten their dayRic: RightAnne: Whether they're working at KrogerRic: That's also a great idea that they would be something you could share with your coworkers. Once again Sherry Clink showed her great imagination and great creativity and just her intuition. She has already found a local group who does organize cards of encouragement and things like that for the local senior centers and retirement communities and things like that. So she's already kind of taken that idea and ran with it and reported back with it. So with Sherry's help we already have an organization we can work with, and we're really at the beginning of this, we aren't really sure how it's going to go and where it's going to take us, but I think it's a great idea because you have written some great poetry and now we've started this zoom call crafts club to create art together and stay in touch with friends, to deepen and strengthen those friendships and now to create something together to give back to our community that are feeling isolated because of the pandemic. It's very – I feel like it's very uplifting and it's very positive and I'm glad to be a part of this experience with you because we've found a way to take these sad circumstances but create something positive for people in the community with your art and poetry, it's pretty amazing.Anne: Thanks!Ric: So I want to hear some more from you, though, just any more thoughts you'd like to share today.Anne: Um I think I have everything for now Ric: Did you have any more poetry that you'd like to read for our listeners while we're recording? I don't want to pressure you do read anything if you don't feel prepared. Just thought I'd make that offer if you wanted to.Anne: I think I have a perfect poetry to read. Ric: Go ahead whenever you're ready.Anne:I have theRight to have a styleI need a Voice is my headI am confident It has a lyrics PoetryIs peacefulVeryPoetry says SomethingAboutLyricsAs a poem in lifeI can changeThe very I am beautifulEvery poetryHas feelingsEvery storyAbout my confidenceAny poetryHad lyrics it has music in my heart Ric: Very good, thanks for sharing thatAnne: Thank youRic: And thanks everyone for listening, anything else to add?Anne: Well just one quick short poemRic: You wanna read one more, I'd love that.Anne: Every night as you feel on your voice in my head and right now God is telling you thank you so much for being here in life, thank you God for being here and we all love you, God is rest in peace in your heart.Ric: That's fantastic, I didn't want to talk over the thunder, but listen to it it's still rumblingAnne: That thunder is GodRic: That's spectacular. Yes it is, He must have known we would be recording today.

The next two episodes of More are going to be a little different. You might be listening to this podcast because you're a fan of Starfire's work, or maybe you're curious about how to build community in your own life. So in honor of that, the next two episodes are going to be hosted by Anne and Ric (Richard). These two have been designing community in Anne's neighborhood for a while now. You'll learn how they began their process of designing community together. First, by learning about each other, over many conversations about art. Ric shares how he learned about Anne's creativity and her love of poetry. Then, you'll hear how they explored places in the city in order to find connections with people who share this interest.Listen to PART TWO to hear about how they held onto these connections in 2020 pandemic mode. GET THE PODCAST FULL TRANSCRIPTAnne: To me meeting new people is like inspiration to me because meeting new people is inspiration to me because I like talking to people and being with people. Katie B: You might be listening to this podcast because you are a fan of Starfire's work or maybe you're curious about how to build community in your own life. So in honor of that the next two episodes are going to be hosted by Anne and Ric. These two have been working together to build community in Anne's neighborhood with a concentration in connecting artists to one another. You're going to want to hang on and listen to part 2 because that is when ric and anne share the ways that they were able to maintain the connections that they made one year ago in anne's neighborhood with other artists virtually during this global pandemic. So when you listen to this part one you'll be introduced to a lot of the people who you'll hear about again in part two, only in the second part it is going to be a little bit trickier to maintain these connections, and I think you'll hear a lot of hope in both of these stories. (1:09 – 5:41) Ric: Okay my name is Richard and I work for Starfire Council in Cincinnati Ohio, I'm a community connector there and I'm here today to interview Anne Gerhart who I've been working with since February and today is June 12th, 2019. Anne do you want to say hello and tell us a little something about yourself? Anne: Uh sure, hey everybody I'm from Cincinnati Area, I'm Anne Elizabeth Gerhart, I'm 21, and yeah I think that's all I got so far. Ric: OK, Anne and I started working together in February after I first met you and your mom for coffee, started talking about your various interests and it seems like creativity is the one thing that flows through. You are an artist a poet and you do lots of different kinds of art. What are some things that you do when you spend time making art? Anne: Well I like to paint, I also do canvas painting, sketching, I also draw and I also take pictures of really cool things. Ric: Theres a wide variety of different creative outlets that you enjoy. Anne: Yes. Ric: Different artistic media that you enjoy, you said painting and drawing, and you said photography, see I didn't even know that one! So our idea was to work together to meet people who shared the same interest as you, try to make some connections in community, to build some new relationships and deepen and strengthen the friendships you already have in your life. And we started out kind of casting about around town to meet other people in the arts and crafts community. Did you want to mention any of the places we went together during that process? Anne: Yeah I can do that! We went to the art museum, went to look some art paintings there, we also went to arts shops, we went to indigo hippo the crafty place Ric: That's right! Is that the place near Findlay market? Anne: Yes, we also went to Michaels. We got to learn something new and crafty, we went to the downtown library and went to the makerspace and got to make some buttons. Also we also went to luckman's and talking about art work. Ric: I'm glad you mentioned the museum because when we first started out together, to get to know each other, to get more acquainted, to learn more about your interests since it became clear right away that your primary interest is art, we started out at the museum, the beautiful Cincinnati art museum, up in Mt. Adams we had a great convo that day and that feels like a place we might turn to for inspiration from time. But you're right, from there we went to check out different art stores and we did pop into Michaels, I remember you buying something for your grandmother's birthday. Anne: Yes I made her a cute necklace and I got her some fake flowers. They really don't have a smell but she really likes it. Ric: Yeah that's right, We found a jewelry making kit there too, it was in their clearance rack too, only a couple bucks! Anne: It was really hard to put jewels on it, it was really really hard to put them on Ric: MmHmm yea. That's right (5:41 – 7:29) Ric: We set up at Luckman's as we often do, the coffee shop in your neck of the woods where we made friends with the barista there named Maria, we might even pop in there to say hi on our way home. Ad another guy there named Trace? Hes there fairly often Anne: Sometimes if we do go to Luckman's we always see Ric's buddy, We always see Simon! Ric: Simon's another customer there, we end up talking to him about music, art and movies it turns out your family takes vacation to the same part of Florida where he visits his family in the summer Anne: Yes I remember that, it's really fun down there, it's cool. Ric: Anyways, We took that jewelry kit that we found real cheap to Luckman's coffee shop. But you did a really good job at putting that necklace together. Anne: She loved it. Ric: She loved it? Anne: Yes, one time when we went to visit my grandma, she has been telling me my granpa has been telling me how nce it was that I would get my grandma fake flowers that don't smell Ric: I think you also mentioned that we popped into Indigo Hippo, a thrift store downtown Anne: Yes, they have really old stuff Ric: Old stuff, repurposed stuff (7:29 – 9:00) Ric: I feel like we really struck gold when we discovered the hobby pop arts and crafts shop right there in your neighborhood where beth betcker is the owner ot the shop and her assistant Megan. They just embraced us right away. They said you come by any time and make art with us Anne: And it's free you can take your art home with you Ric: You're right, you can take the art home with you! Anne: For free. One time I made some thing really cool. I have a lot of crafting ideas. I made a dog canvas art. I mad Breezy Woods. Breezy woods is actually a dog in a movie. I got to make that on a canvas. Ric: Beth had some great suggestions along the way, and you two hit it off right away and we fouond as we were looking around town to meet people who are interested in arts and crafts, and more importantly to make some new friends and build some connections in that community to try to work on new projects and goals together to make new friends in that community and then to work on projects together with them and it looks like we might have an opportunity to volunteer on a semi regular basis helping Beth and her assistant Megan at the shop. (9:00 – 11:05) Anne: I have a few questions for Ric. Ric: You have questions for me? Anne: Yeah! Ric: Oh okay! Anne: My main title for the questions is being with Ric has inspired me to do new things and I have two questions for Ric: My first question is what is your favorite thing that we did? Ric: Wow. Well my favorite thing we did, I'm really tempted to say it's the day we discovered Beth Becker at hobby pop shop. Anne: She's really cool. Ric: She is really cool and that felt like we had spent several weeks looking for her and we finally found her right in your back yard. So that's a close second. I have to say my favorite thing was the day we were at Luckman coffee shop and you showed me your poems! Anne: Yes I'm actually a poet and I write my own poems. Ric: I didn't know We had been working together for weeks and we had been talking about arts and crafts and drawing and painting and making jewelry, you've done all these creative things! I think that you have this creative drive and artistry inside of you, you live to make stuff. It's very beautiful that you make stuff and you give it away, like the card for your mom. Anne: Yes Ric: But the day you showed me your poetry that's my favorite things because I was pleasantly surprised because there was this whole other creative side of you that I didn't know about. And you had a whole notebook full of your poetry with you that day. Anne: Yes um I actually just finished my poems all this week. And I'm actually a songwriter, I write my own songs and I produce it to my piano. (11:05 – 12:22) Ric: So what do you think about this journey so far? Anne: Well um..what I do with Rick is really fun and being inspired by new things Ric: So what has it been like for you meeting people? You know like showing up to new places and meeting new people like Beth at the hobby pop? Anne: To me meeting new people is like inspiration for me because I love talking to people and being with people Ric: That's great. What do you think looking into the future what are the possibilities that you can imagine for this journey as we move forward and what are the risks and challenges you see? Anne: I don't see any challenges at all but I'm just trying to do my best and meet new people Ric: Yeah, I feel that about you too. I think you are a person with a great many gifts. Your perspective on the world is that you don't even see challenges. You just get out in the world and meet people and make your art and by making your art and sharing with your friends and family you make the world a better place. (12:22 – 14:50) Anne: I have a last question for Ric Ric: I didn't know you had any questions for me so this is a surprise Anne: My last question for Ric is name a time we talked about art. Ric: Wow, I would say between feb and jue of 2019 we have been talking about art nonstop. This conversation we are having right now started back in February and we are still talking about art. I guess i If I had to mention a highlight in there I know I already mentioned this, but finding out you were also a poet that was a big day for me and that first day too walking through the museum talking about what we saw there the kinds of art we enjoy, how the different paintings and sculptures and tings resonate with you that was a good day and again up at the hobby pop shop where we finally made some friends there that feels like another part of this conversation about art making and creativity that was a real highlight for me when we discovered them and found a way that not just that we appreciate what we're doing there but we feel like they are a part of your tribe, like these are your people, they are part of your tribe of creative artsy people after looking for weeks around town. Very fun people to be around, right there in your neighborhood! Anne: Yes Ric: One of the first things we did together with Beth and Megan at the hobby pop show was paint rocks, do you remember that? Anne: Yeah I remember that Ric: And that was for a local, not really a fundraising, but They are raising awareness of a young girl who sadly passed away where they put a website and hashtag on the botton of the rock and then you paint it a colorful pattern and then you return it to the wild so someone will find it on a trail or a city sidewalk and when someone finds it they turn it over they will see the website and the hashtag. You remember that? Anne: I remember that, Yeah Ric: So art is where you find it and for you I think you are one of those people that art is everywhere you look, art is everywhere you go. (14:50 – 17:08) Anne: I just wanted to add something about art if that's okay? Ric: Absolutely Anne: To me, art is like a passion to me because it's like a gift Ric: It is isn't it? And I really appreciate that about you.You said that a moment ago and you aren't nervous. And I feel that about you, that this is just something you naturally do. It just flows out of you you don't have to fake it, or worry about what other people think because you are who you are and your art is what it is and it's just a natural extension of your personality. Anne: Yes. Ric: That's a beautiful thing. Anne: Yes! And I was thinking that maybe I could sell my own artwork. I've never done that before and I'm very excited to do it, so I can make some money of my own. Ric: That would be nice wouldn't it? Anne: Yeah and maybe I can show everybody my artwork! Ric: Yeah Anne: And if people are listening to this from the Cincinnati area right now if you have any art requests you can always let me know and I can come up with something for everybody who's in Cincinnati Ric: That's fantastic. Well I'm excited for you in this next chapter of your development as an artist. Many artist never find themselves in a place where they can create art and maybe even make a little money from it. So I do hope that works out for you, that's exciting. Anne: Yeah Ric: Did you have anything else you wanted to say before we wrap it up? Anne: This is like an ending part if you want to say it with me? Ric: Ok sure Together: Wake Up USA! Anne: Thank you so much for listening

It's a narrative that often gets repeated to parents of young children with disabilities: the more services the better. But John and Connie found a different way early on with their son Mark. Their family's dream was bigger. The vision they have for an ordinary life really gets to the heart of why this podcast started - to offer out ideas for families and people with disabilities to go after more in life than the expected route of disability services and segregated activities.As founders of the Plan Institute in Rhode Island 15 years ago, the Susa family connected with Starfire to learn how to launch community projects. They said that this way of bringing people together, over a shared goal like a community garden, generates a certain magic - almost instantly.If you are someone who wants to think seriously about how you and your loved ones spend your time, how to connect more deeply in community, and ways to make longterm relationships a reality, this episode is for you. GET THE PODCAST FULL TRANSCRIPT:CONNIE: - I have heard speakers talk about this concept as a way of healing the world and as we're in the midst of the COVID19 virus outbreak right now, I think the world could use a lot of healing, not only physically but also in terms of relationships. We have a new neighbor who shares that passion with us, and it has been such a joy to get to know one another, to have a real give and take. I can see how if this were multiplied throughout communities, and states and nations, the world would be a beautiful place. KATIE: Beautiful. JOHN - I'm John Susa. I think what moves me for a lot of this work is almost a therapeutic plan for me. I grew up very very isolated and I had very few interactions with anybody besides my family. And most people would have described me as being very introverted. When people asked me when you were a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? My answer was always the same. I wanted to be a long distance truck driver. So I could sit in that cab and not have any human interaction for days. And if left to myself that's probably what would have happened. But instead I learned that if I pushed myself a little bit and started interacting with people and meeting people then I could change that desire to be a loner. And so I think the reason I'm so involved in all of this stuff is still mostly for myself to avoid falling back into be a loner. So I made pretty much a conscious decision that I was just going to change my behavior first. And of course after I changed my behavior for a while my attitude started to change.Fast forwarding then to when you and Connie met, and you had children and you were - down the road, you know, deciding how to engage as a family in the community, what were some of the things that you had to consider first to be connected?JOHN - I think for me the recognition that Mark developmentally was experiencing life differently than others made me realize it was going to be very helpful if I became more engaged in the disability advocacy world. I was kind of driven by two different quotes that were in my head that I learned while I was in the military. And they're very a-typical but they're very powerful. One is from Johann Goethe a German philosopher and he said, “Dream no small dreams for they have power insufficient to change the hearts of men.” That's been something that I've always come to recognize as a very powerful piece of instruction and advice. And I saw that there were people who were encouraging us in many ways to dream small, to be satisfied with what Mark is able to do, focus in on his disabilities, spend your time searching out services. In many ways that was dreaming small. There were occasionally people who would say, “No, no, no don't do that. Dream big. Dream like Mark's future is limitless. Dream like if you just provide him with all the opportunities that life has to offer, you will be amazed at how much he is going to accomplish.” And that is what I took from Goethe, dream big. And we have ever since. And that really has kind of put us into contact with a lot of other big dreamers. It's those big dreamers that really have changed the world works for people with disabilities.KATIE - Beautiful. MARK - Excellent.CONNIE: - For me in terms of community building, I think one of the greatest advances has been our church. Mark turned three at the end of December.MARK - Right. CONNIE: And three-year-olds were supposed to begin in what most people would call “Junior Sunday School.” When Mark was three, we were still carrying him - cradling him in our arms. Did you know when you were three years old you couldn't sit up by yourself? MARK - No way, really?CONNIE: Truly. Mark just kept attending our Sunday school classes with us and about two, three weeks into that sequence one of our friend's who taught the three year old class, the Sunbeam class, came to us in the hallway and said, “Why hasn't Mark been in my class?” And I said, “Edith - look.” As if seeing where Mark was at that moment meant everything. And she said, “Yes, but look at my role.” And Mark's name was there, without x's in the attendance boxes.And she said, “We really need him in our class.” And I said, “Edith he can't even sit up independently.” She said, “Well we could get a highchair and we could put pillows all around it so that he can sit up.” And I said, “We're not even sure that he can understand what you're teaching the other kids.” And she said, “That doesn't matter.” She said, “The reason I need Mark in my class is because all the other kids have so much to learn from him.” MARK - Really.CONNIE: And while we had been working seriously on stimulations and Mark had gone through early intervention and we learned about you know sensory stuff and what have you. We were doing that once a week, in a group and the rest of the time at home. But what Edith had said really started Mark and us on the path to community. Mark now…well, tell Katie what you do at church.MARK - A lot. CONNIE: - Some things that you're responsible for?MARK - I'm secretary. CONNIE: - Secretary for what?MARK - For attendance. CONNIE: - Yup, and you set up appointments for interviews.MARK - Set up appointments for interviews. CONNIE: - We were amazed, Mark was enfolded in the arms of these people who understood all about community because that fits the teachings that we have as Christians. Going back to what Edith had said to you that you know, diversity and having different types of learning in a classroom is really really really important and once you accepted that invitation, what unfolded in that first year? JOHN - What I remember is that it reinforced something that I came to realize, everybody became comfortable and it was now normal and accepted that Mark would be part of that congregation. Once people got to the point where they were comfortable because of exposure and experience they relaxed and they accepted Mark for who he was. And they didn't feel the need to treat him any differently than they would any other child. It reminds me of another one of my kind of guiding principles and this comes from a guy, Rudolf Steiner, talking about early childhood. Rudolf Steiner is the founder of the Waldorf educational system. Are you familiar with that?KATIE - Yes. JOHN - He said that, “There is nothing more therapeutic than normalcy.” That was a piece of advice that was given to us by a good friend, developmental pediatrician, when Mark was finally identified as having all these developmental challenges. The meeting at the end of the two-day evaluation process was nothing but a group of people who were very pessimistic about Mark. “He's not going to walk. He's not going to talk. He's probably not going to be aware of you. He's certainly not going to hear.” A whole bunch of things, they all at the end say “Well, good luck, take him home and love him.” That was their advice, which is good advice but inadequate. When they all left, their boss who was sitting at the back of the room observing asked us to go into his office because Connie was bawling. Sig closes the door and the first thing he says is, “Don't believe a word of what those people said to you.” And I said, “Sig if you say that, why didn't you stop them before they started?” And he said, “You know all those people in that room were doing or could do is describe Mark now, as they see him. They could not possibly describe Mark in the future. I believe if you believe them, that future will happen. If you don't believe and you adopt the approach that the best thing to do is to have Mark experience as much normalcy as possible he will become a different person. He will become more like the ‘normal kids' whatever that may be. Every person will develop depending on how much they're exposed to.” So he said, “I'm not going to let them label him because that will result in other people reading the report and it will only help them treat him in a stereotypical way based on his label. I'm just going to say he's developmentally delayed.” And his advice was, “Take him home and love him but then help him have every normal experience as other children.” And that kind of guided our thinking really from then on. KATIE - And you know, dreaming big in this instance is to dream ordinary, to dream normal. JOHN - Exactly. Yeah. KATIE - And sometimes ordinary is the biggest gift anyone can have.JOHN - Right, right. It's kind of counterintuitive because in the world of disabilities a lot of times people think that dreaming big means getting more services, the more the better, the more services the better. Steiner said think seriously about substituting every hour of normalcy with an hour of service because that hour of service is removing that person from normalcy. So it's almost in the disability world it's almost a flipping of thinking that that has to happen. CONNIE: - Be concerned if you were just going to services. JOHN - Be big in your thinking by vying for normalcy. KATIE - Yes, so even in services are... they're not normal. It's interesting. JOHN - They're not normal. CONNIE: - What's more important is that Mark participated not only in that class but every subsequent class. And when Mark was eleven years old we took our school district to a due process hearing because they had adamantly fought us for two years in bringing Mark back into district from a segregated day placement that was anything but normal, because they were sure that Mark would not act appropriately in a classroom setting. They were sure that Mark would be a disruption to other students, they were sure that he might even be self injurious or injury other people, because they were thinking in terms of stereotypes not in terms of who Mark is as an individual. And do you remember Jennifer Coats, Mark?MARK – Yeah. The one with the power.CONNIE: - She came to your hearing. MARK - Right. CONNIE: - And she told everybody just how you act in a classroom setting. That you raised your hand just like that, that you participated appropriately in singing time, that you sat with your class and no additional extra support. That you sang the songs that you answered questions, you gave talks. MARK - Right. Yes I did. KATIE - So it sounds like Jennifer had another piece of Mark and your family's story along this journey to dream big, to live an ordinary life? She made an impact during that hearing.I want to see if we can dip our toes briefly in the water of the day placement that you mentioned, that Mark was in, and how that was anything but normal. Can you explain how abnormal it was or what about it made it not ordinary?CONNIE: - Sure, the very fact that there were multiple kids with multiple disabilities just ate up so much of the instruction time. What else do you remember about it? JOHN - Everybody in Mark's class was just like Mark. Six little kids, wheelchairs. So the biggest thing I believe happened when he left there and went into a regular classroom is that for the first time he started culturally and socially experiencing life as every other eleven, or twelve or fifteen year old does. KATIE - You agree with that, Mark?MARK - Yes, excellent. KATIE - Yeah and I think that's a good segway to the phrase ‘a good life' that is something you hear a lot from Al Etmanski and Vickie Cammack. It's a big part of the PLAN institute model and you all have been involved with PLAN at Rhode Island for quite some time. So what ways has it helped? CONNIE: - John first heard Al speak, he recognized the wisdom in their model that we always acknowledge how deeply we depend on the work. When we brought PLAN (Personal Lifetime Advocacy Network) to Rhode Island 15 years ago we knew that we were standing on the shoulders of giants. The two things that we have focused on in trying to replicate their model is we help parents put all their ducks in a row, plan for the time that they are no longer going to be there or able to enrich the lives of their sons and daughters out of the love and the family history, the precious relationships. The much more important part of what they did in Canada and what we did in Rhode Island is to build a personal support network around the member. The family joins on behalf of their son, daughter, brother, sister and they engage with a facilitator to build and maintain that support network so that it's not just every individual having a relationship with a person at the center of the circle but it is all those people getting to know one another, to recognize one another's strengths, to trust one another. Between all those group gatherings individuals will do things with the members at the center, with our loved ones. And as parents we try to do that early enough so that we can fill in the important parts of the history. So the support network is really there to build a circle of support around a person, and yet also it's not just about the person in the center it's about everyone in the network joining together, being in relationships together, and in that way being in a community. Where are you now with the support network?CONNIE: - Right. Mark has had a personal support network for the entire time that PLAN has been in existence in Rhode Island. It really does take some time for relationships to mature that if we had to step off the Earth the next week, this would go on. MARK - Right.CONNIE: - And that it would provide Mark with people that he could depend on, people who were real friends, who had proved that over time. MARK - Right. CONNIE: - People who enjoy spending time with him. And we feel secure. In one of the questions that PLAN Institute seems to start with is what would happen to my loved one after I pass on, if I'm not around, if we're not there to help what will happen? And so starting from a young age it sounds like you guys have done a lot of work to build that support network so that in a time of disaster or otherwise that there is somebody there for Mark?JOHN - Right. When PLAN in Canada was first put together it was even before Al Etmanski, it was just a group of parents and they hired Al. They originally thought that they were preparing for their demise, the focus was on what's going to happen? What they quickly discovered was that yes they were doing that but they were also starting to develop a stronger sense of security and the feeling that their son or daughter was safe. There were some very positive benefits to the parents while they were still alive. And they figured it out that it was the existence of this network that provided that sense of security. And not only the sense of it but the actual security. KATIE - I love how you put that, that's very clearly stated for me and I think it's actually it starts as soon as you begin to community build: the benefits, the magic, the parts of it that are really just supportive feeling begin right away. And every parent needs that and we need to raise our children as a village. You all as a family have taken the brave step being able to say well even though some experts are telling us otherwise we're going to not believe that and in doing that we are going start this support network early and we're going to build and the more people who have joined in along the way it sounds like the more momentum has build towards this? Tell me about your family's leadership in the community as it relates to your street, and how your support network, Mark, how they were involved in that process? JOHN - So as we kind of navigate our life with Mark, I'm always looking for things that are in the way of him achieving greater independence. So this little project about looking at Warwick Avenue, Mark and his brother live about two and a half, three miles apart, they both require a wheelchair in Mark's case or a scooter in Frank's case. And so when Frank moved back here to Rhode Island we thought, “Wow wouldn't it be nice if these two guys could get together once in a while without Mom and Dad having to be the go between.” We started looking at this road and we recognized very quickly that this road was a problem. I've known that this road was a problem probably for at least fifteen years now, but I've not had a real strong reason for us to say, “Let's do something about it.” So we naturally thought that this is going to be something that is much more powerful if we have a group involved. We had a group, we had Mark's network, they all know him, they're comfortable with him. So we posed the idea, the project, people thought this is great. And the fact is that there is appropriated money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development every year for infrastructure maintenance. But the fact is also is that many states use that money for something else besides not worrying about wheelchair accessibility. So our complaint kind of brought this into the public eye and I'm pretty confident that we will be able to see some change and some action as we kind of work through the process. But it is also what ever you want to call it, karma, good luck whatever, that here we have our network and one of the powerful things about a network is the fact every member of that network has other connections with other people and within our little group we were able to identify somebody else who is not part of Mark's network but is only peripherally connected, kind of, who is going to be very helpful in resolving. And you never know who you may know until you start talking and working and interacting in community. Every network is a little community and every little community has a lot more resources than we certainly had by ourselves. Absolutely and maybe you can share how some of the other families you know in Rhode Island who have similar networks of support like you all do around Mark, how they've utilized their networks of support to do other projects in their communities with Starfire's facilitation support. What are a few of those other projects that have happened or sprung out of this collaboration?JOHN - So in about a month or so another network is going to do a project that is to create a mosaic welcome sign to this little town's community garden. It's prompted by a family who have a son who has very significant disabilities but who is a very very talented artist who is really good at sketching and painting vegetables. So they're going to take his work and they're going to create a mosaic welcome sign. This is a family I've known for quite a while, also been part of PLAN for a while, and they have dramatically really been able to bring their son like we did out of a special school into the real world and Sid has really blossomed as a result of that real world life experience. Why do you think it's important for families to lead efforts toward building community? And how do you think families are helping other people in the neighborhoods see the light of community building, the magic of community building?CONNIE: - We've been told for years on end that certain federal programs are underfunded and that there may come a time that those things are no longer available or that their support and services get shrunken and Mark loves people, he's a very social person. MARK - I do. CONNIE: - You do and you contribute in a lot of ways. MARK - Right. CONNIE: - And we're very proud of that. MARK - Right. CONNIE: - So just in terms of politics alone it's important that we give our sons and daughters opportunities to show that they can contribute to society. JOHN - From our own experience and from the experience of a lot of people we know that the amount of community, acceptance and inclusion that people with disabilities experience is really very much influenced by how much their family is integrated and included in their community. Our experience was that after Mark started going to special private school we spent more and more and more time at that school helping them with fundraising, helping them with all kinds of stuff and we spent less and less time in our community. We often meet family with children with disabilities and very quickly they'll say, “Oh, but we don't know anybody. We're not engaged in our community.” And without spending a lot of time we recently were able to recognize that that was because they were spending their time in a different world than their community. So we really really strongly encourage people to become more engaged and more involved. One of the ways is get engaged in a community project and all of a sudden you know a bunch of people, not all of those people are going to become part of their son's or daughter's network but some will. And that's because all of a sudden they know people who have common interests, there are all kinds of things that happen when you start doing things together. These projects are just ways people becoming engaged in their community, as a family, and then as time goes on for that family to be unique and having people have a relationship with that son or daughter who has a disability.Absolutely. And maybe we'll end with a quote here I think that is related to everything you just said. It's by Al Etmanski he says, “People are naturally ingenious when faced with adversity.” What ways do you think you all have managed to be ingenious?CONNIE: - With the COVID19 crisis, Mark's facilitator of Mark's support network is putting out requests with two things. One to ensure them that Mark is no more susceptible to this virus than anyone else in the community is. More importantly, because Mark has benefited so much from his contact with all the members of his network, she is going to ask them to engage with him regularly remotely as long as they cannot engage with him personally. He reads and he can enjoy texts and answer emails and appreciates post cards and greeting cards and phone calls.MARK - Right. CONNIE: - That's an adaptation that we're making right now. JOHN - We've learned that we really have to remain flexible. We have to depend on other people's creativity and let them interact with Mark in their way. In the beginning when he was younger people would always ask us, “What does Mark like to do?” And a long time ago we basically came up with the same answer, “Well I don't know, ask him.” Not only ask him but invite him. Mark surprises everybody with his ability to express his enthusiasm for things. KATIE - I love how you turned a question into a way to mobilize community to be more involved and be more inclusive. It's wonderful to meet and hear your story. JOHN: As parents we've benefited from such wonderful and powerful messaged from guys like Tim (Vogt) and Al Etmanski and David Wehterow and John O'Brien. There's a million of these messages that we've been lucky enough to try and hear and try and incorporate into what we're trying to do for Mark. That's what it's all about we're doing it for our family first - and hope that other families will see what we've done and will say, “Hey if those guys can do it so can we.” That's the power of this movement. KATIE: It's actually moving, it's doing something. That's the exciting part of it. Thanks for being movers, so great to meet you. MARK: Good-bye.

FULL TRANSCRIPT available at starfirecincy.org/cincibility

TRANSCRIPT:Ashley: My name is Ashley Hart and our family did the growing Christmas tree in Goshen project.Katie: Alright so you worked on getting to know your neighbors last year through this project? And talk me through that year, what did it look like, what did it take for you guys to put all that together?Ashley: Well it started off with me getting really excited about creating something new. So I came up with a list to my mentor of all the fun ideas I had. Then evaluating how those ideas matched with the community that we lived in and what would be a gift to them and something that we could make memories together with them. So we kind of spent time connecting with neighbors in a different way than we had before. So we might go on a walk and stop over and say good evening to our neighbor or call them over and invite them over for dessert or whatever. And that kind of got the relationship frequency enough that we were able to have more conversations.Katie: Yeah, and were you bringing the idea of this Christmas tree project to them right away or how did you start on that path to get to that project idea?Ashley: So I think one of the things that I realized for myself and took that to the way I was connecting with our neighbors was that I in my own life wasn't prepared for a big ask and so I didn't want to throw a big ask at someone else. Really I was still putting feelers out to see if the idea that we had could even happen. So our neighbor happened to be a landscaper, so I didn't even know if he would plant Christmas trees in December or not, or if that was like not going to work. If the trees were going to die or the ground would be too frozen or whatever.Katie: Because you guys did not have Christmas trees on your property when you started this?Ashley: Correct.Katie: But you had how many acres?Ashley: Eleven acres.Katie: Eleven acres and what are you going to do with it, how are you going to make that an asset to the community?Ashley: Right, and we had always kind of had a vision even on our wedding day we invited people to our property and invited people to spend time there. We wanted it to be a hospitable place but I don't think we had the tools and the permission that we were given to make it kind of an official thing to start inviting people and doing something unique for the community.Katie: So it took some permission seeking?Ashley: I think so, which is weird, but yeah. I think someone saying here's some support and here's some encouragement and start dreaming. And I was desperate for the idea to be dreaming about something other than being concerned about what's going on in our day to day experience.Katie: Right what was your main concern at that point, what were you worrying about?Ashley: I think I was really focused on ensuring that our daughter would be prepared to engage in her community and the way that I thought I was going about that was through therapy and appointments and things like that because that required so much energy I just didn't think I had anymore energy to start something new. Katie: So you were trying to pave the way for your daughter to be part of the community some day, but you weren't really sure about how to go about it. And meanwhile you had other day to day appointments and things that you had to be doing that were taking up time, energy and effort and that that permission that you go to do something off the scope of the therapy list.Ashley: Oh yeah it was like it was such a gift. Yeah it was just you know you get stuck in the grind of doing what's best and the idea to imagine creating something that intrinsically you already know what is good for you, and what is good for your family and what is good for the community. And just someone saying ‘Go for it' it's really.. I've talked about that you're getting to lift your eyes off a problem or what is perceived as a problem and getting to lift your eyes to bringing beauty into your world and your community.Katie: Yes, so before you started this, was it a year long project, about?Ashley: Yeah.Katie: Ten months, year long project, before you started the year long project to plant Christmas trees in your yard and invite your neighbors to, can you explain actually a little bit more about what that Christmas tree project was in the end?Ashley: Yeah, so the goal was, we started the project in July, and because of the event, our event was in December. So we had to kind of move quickly once we decided what we were doing but the idea was to invite families in the community, so because it's a rural community that's a wide area, but invite community members to come and to plant a CHristmas tree on our land. And we wanted it to be a healing experience to everyone who came so we talked through what's healing for community and individuals. So we brought the five senses into the experience. So we had art, lighting, lumineers, paths through the fields and Christmas music anda baker came and baked Christmas cookies that's from Goshen and hot cocoa and a bonfire. So we tried to make it as memory making as we could by sealing in those five senses and then families are invited to come back each year and they can either take their Christmas tree if it's tall enough for them or they can just check on it and take a picture with their family. So that's been really fun to see families bewildered in the generosity. Families would call us and say, “ok so what are the rules around this?” or like ‘well how do we sign, and ensure that this is ours.” And so they've just been really surprised by the generosity.Katie: They also are seeking permission.Ashley: Yeah.Katie: To just show up and have a Christmas tree party?Ashley: Right. Right.Katie: Yeah it kind of shows that we've lost a little bit of our muscle for community building. We don't really know what to do in the face of something as ordinary and simply beautiful as this, it's kind of like there's a catch. Where's the marketing here?Ashley: Right, exactly and we have a friend here at Starfire mention that really we're just returning to our roots as rural people. Who used to sit on one another's porches and play music and eat together, so we talked about that that evening that we want more of that. And we really got a sense from our neighbors that they did too. So people would come by and talk to me about it like, “Oh I have this idea or I have that idea.” So we're hoping that fosters more and more of that. Katie: Did many people know your family who came to the event? How did you make connections and make that neighborliness happen?Ashley: So it was funny because several days before the event we had no one signed up for the event.Katie: Seven days before?Ashley: Several, several so like three or four days before. We had like signs up, we had advertised.Katie: So really quickly describe your neighborhood real quick because when you say you have signs and things up it's at like the one library and maybe like…Ashley: One coffee shop.Katie: Yeah.Ashley: There's one coffee shop, there's like two fast food restaurants or three and two gas stations and a library. Otherwise it's a very rural community. So we had posted things on Facebook, on the Goshen Facebook community page but then we had also put it in a coffee shop. So we really had no idea how many trees we needed so we picked thirty, I'm not sure why but it was crazy because somebody called like three or four days before and was like I know it's really late but is there anyway our family could sign up? And I was like yeah we've got some room.Katie: You hang up and were like woo-hoo!Ashley: Yes totally, like we got one and her friend wanted to sign up too so that made two families and what we didn't know which I think is really important is having people invested in the process, so our neighbor Dan brough him and everyone he knew to that event. He was excited about it because he had done so much in giving advice and shopping around for trees and going to get thte trees, that he was invested enough to want it to be a good event and want his people to come and experience it.Katie: And is this the landscaper you had mentioned? So you had a neighbor, I mean you have eleven acres how many acres are around you?Ashley: We have one to our right and one to our left then we have one across the street, so yeah. Not a lot.Katie: So you have three neighbors in the vicinity of you and neighbor Dan was one of them. What a gem.Ashley: I know he is a gem.Katie: How did you meet him? Did you already know him?Ashley: Yeah, he has been friends with my husband's parents who live right next door also. So he's been a friend of their families for a while and you know in rural communities if there's something wrong everyone shows up. But otherwise you kind of naturally keep to yourself and sometimes you might stop over and say hi but this just was really nice because we got to spend more time together and got to use one another's gifts in a way that brought people together so that was great.Katie: Yeah. So this was not the first time that you've been part of a community in an intentional way. This experience that you had in your neighborhood with your family was sort of precluded by your own youth living in intentional community being part of living with a family, so you've tried community in various forms?Ashley: Yeah it's always been important to me.Katie: Can you talk more about that?Ashley: I think I've always experienced more joy when I'm doing life with other people and yet when you're doing life with more people it can be complicated too. So that's just being with other people. Katie: That's a good thing to know going into it.Ashley: Yeah I think so.Katie: You had seen some of the pitfalls of it but you had also lived some of the joys of it and knew I want this for my family now too?Ashley: Right and you know even having your own family that's having a small community. So yeah I've experienced it in multiple different settings and really just treasured the gift of letting people be beyond the veils of their front doors and back doors and getting to spend real life with one another.Katie: Yeah so you've sought it out in that way. You've been seeking it. How were those experiences that you've had in the past in the intentional community that you have been different from the one that you experienced when you reached out to your neighbors and kind of had this project type experience where you're connecting over a shared idea, a creation versus like all living together in the same house?Ashley: Yeah, well it's nice because you have a goal and it's accomplishable and you're kind of bringing everyone in so that's different I would say. Then just all doing life together. You have an event and then it's done.Katie: Yeah, you've all achieved something together and like you said earlier and it's a way for everyone to use their specific gifts like you had the baker that came, neighbor Dan brought the trees, there were other people who probably set up the decorates and had ideas around where to plant the trees. Even the people who showed up that day, their gifts were their presence and getting enthusiastic about what's going on. And everybody can kind of have a role there and doing something that's kind of out of the ordinary.Ashley: Very out of the ordinary for Goshen. Yeah we had one experience where it was like an art installation where we zig-zagged rope through the trees and everyone brought a little lantern out, different sizes of light lite lanterns so by the end they had created this beautiful art piece and we talked about you've all brought your gifts here tonight, just being together and this is just a display of what could be as we spend time together and do life together.Katie: Yeah I love that imagery. So we're going to segue. To the time you decided to move away from this place. The moment you made the decision after all of this goodness had been created to say you know what we're going to try a new neighborhood. Take me to some of the decision making and what was that like? Was it difficult? Where you anxious about leaving? Did you feel like what if we regret this because we've made all these connections. What was your motive there?Ashley: Sure, yeah well I think one important thing to talk about as far as the project goes is we were in the midst of deciding while we were doing the project. So I asked my mentor should we do it in Goshen? Should we do it where we think we're going to go? And we kind of ended up deciding to do it now and do it where you are and I think there's a lot of lessons in that.We don't have to wait until we think everything is right to start building community and to start creating spaces of belonging for our neighbors and memory making moments for each other those are always good and always can be healing, so I'm glad we didn't wait. Katie: And you also have a two year old, three year old?Ashley: Three year old now.Katie: A three year old. So as parents too it's like well I'm going to wait until my kid gets older, things are less hectic. So doing it in the midst of all of it and what's the value in that that you found at the end even when you guys were packing up your bags and deciding to leave?Ashley: Well I think the biggest take away for us was that we built the muscle to like we now have the muscle to build community. And I”m just naturally looking for it all the time going like ‘oh what could we do here?' So we've done a couple of things in our new neighborhood not for any project per say but because we now have the muscle and we want community where we are. Katie: Yeah tell me what were some of the first few things that you did when you moved to the new neighborhood that maybe you didn't do when you moved to your Goshen neighborhood?Ashley: Yeah, so our new neighborhood before we had actually bought the house but we were pretty sure that was where we were headed it was trick-or-treat so we were like ok how often are you invited to every single person's house at the same time. Like this, we can't miss this.Katie: Yeah that's a good point.Ashley: Yeah like never.Katie: Yes please come knock on our door and we'll give you things.Ashley: So we went to that neighborhood that night, just to introduce ourselves and said we are probably going to be living right there and we're eager to connect with you guys.Katie: Wow so even before you put money down on the house, even before you closed on the house?Ashley: Yes, yes.Katie: Wow, ok.Ashley: Yeah, so we were excited about building community there and we really wanted to take what we were learning and not just leave it in Goshen, but bring it along with us for all of us. So that's one thing that we did, that was in late October and then in February we made jars of hot cocoa and put our picture on them and our address and we said we're your new neighbors and our daughter was in a little red wagon and just saying hello and that inspired lots of conversations and people coming to our house and bringing us stuff. So that kind of got the wheels spinning in the neighborhood I think.Katie: Were you writing down names after each one?Ashley: Yes, my husband actually was really intent too which was a fun dynamic to see him to start getting invested in the idea of community building because he didn't grow up building community like I did as much.Katie: And he was the note taker he was the one, yeah?Ashley: Yeah, wanting to know his neighbors.Katie: So I think what you just touched on which is really important is we think sometimes we need to be the ones welcomed in and instead you guys were the welcomers to your new neighborhood to your new neighbors to say hey we're here and we want to know you. So taking the first step doesn't always have to come from the other person.Ashley: Right, and I think that's kind of fun for the neighbors to be like ‘wait she flipped the switch, like what just happened there?' Yeah, and it was totally fun for us so we said we would do it again in a heartbeat because we got to go in people's houses and visit and people came in our house, it was nice. Katie: Yeah when you left your neighborhood behind did you have any lessons that you were taken from what you learned over that year with the Christmas tree project that you were like we're going to do it differently this time. We tried it that way and now let's try it this way. Was there anything that stood out where you're like…Ashley: Lessons learned?Katie: Yeah.Ashley: Yeah, I think the big lesson, my big takeaway from growing Christmas trees in Goshen was with a new event, a new project no one knows what to expect so it's really hard to get people invested unless they're a part of the creation of the idea, and so we only had a couple people that were involved with the creation of the idea. And so that ends up meaning that you're doing a lot of the creation and administration of the event, so my take away in the future is that I want our neighbors there with us like what should we do with our community what would be something that our community needs or wants that would be fun for everybody. So bringing everyone into the decision making piece..Katie: From the beginning?Ashley: From the beginning. Now we're trying to back track and go like maybe we do a Christmas planning in July so we get everybody to come together to start working towards the goal for the event.Katie: Yeah and it's what you said before neighbor Dan was invested from the beginning and he was somebody who brought a lot of people with him, so the people who come it's hard to sometimes invite the whole neighborhood if it's just your family. But the more people who come, the more networks they have and everybody's networks kind of show up too. But also you're saying just the excitement piece and getting it all together, it's not all on you as a family to plan it all and dream it all up and there's more shared ownership.Ashley: Right which means there's more presence at the event too. There's ten families that are excited about it and they're bringing all their gifts and networks there. So that's a big help, so I think that that would be if I was doing that again when we tried to do that but I think we're all just learning as we go and I think we did it by inviting a group of people, we weren't good at explaining this is what we're thinking about we just said come plan with us we're going to do an event and they were like i have other things going on so..Katie: Yeah, sounds like work.Ashley: Yeah, exactly, so eventually they came to the event and they're definitely a part of our community but not bringing people in early to help ideate and create it.Katie: What about just in terms of knowing neighbors and interacting with them differently are their things that you do as part of your lifestyle now that maybe you didn't do you know in your former neighborhood that know you can kind of.. I guess I'm asking that because you can reinvent yourself when you move somewhere, you can be a new person in a way. So there's a benefit in showing up as this new neighbor and being like ok this is the type of neighbor I want to be now, I might not have been that in my neighborhood prior but now I can show up and nobody knows me and I can start new right?Ashley: Yeah I think the big thing that we've done differently is just at the outset let people know that we're interested in being together. So a lot of people I've learned that in suburban neighborhoods like to play and do outdoor life in their backyard with their privacy fence and so we've spent a lot of time in our driveway and in the front yard and going for walks and interacting with people that way so some of it is just relearning how to be in a new environment too. Katie: Yeah I love that so you're spending time in the front yard so that when people get home from work and they pull in their driveway you can be like ‘hey'!Ashley: Right.Katie: Privacy, there's a value of privacy that we have as Americans.Ashley: For sure.Katie: But we aren't necessarily happy in our private lives we'd rather spend it with other people we just don't know what that looks like any more. So do you think that you have a different mindset than you started this with and in what way?Ashley: I definitely, I have a huge different mindset yeah. In so many different ways I mean it's like so many different layers, my mindset during community building I'm still super excited about community building in our new neighborhood and I'm also so grateful that i now see people who are neighbors with their gifts. Like that I think is different than before which is surprising to me because I thought that I saw people that way always but I think you know as we were getting to know people in our new neighborhood we were like ‘oh my gosh this is amazing we have this person across the street that does this or that's interested in that' and before I think we were just trying to do our own thing and then relating to people asit happened where as now we're much more intentional about making it happen that we connect with those people and creating spaces where we can do that together.Katie: So seeing those gifts as an avenue for ‘this is how we can connect with them, wow' let's learn from that person or is that the difference?Ashley: Yeah and I think even outside of our neighborhood I'm just learning how other people we're connected with have their gifts and who they are, connect with us and vice versa.Katie: Like the common?Ashley: Commonality, yeah the things we share and care about. For example, my uncle is a musician and piano tuner and everytime he and my daughter get together they just love doing music together. And so I asked can we do this quarterly even though you live two hours away, can we like break bread together and do music together and so we've been doing that for two and a half years since we started getting involved here. So I think just being more intentional and making it happen putting it on the calendar and dreaming in a different way.Katie: Yeah and you brought up your daughter and I think I want to bring it back to this idea that in the beginning you were like I need to prepare her to be part of the community. In what ways do you see her now as a part of the community and was there preparation in that or did it sort of did she, did she just get immersed in this way through gifts?Ashley: Yeah I think I've been really intentional about not putting her up on a stage to be engaged with but instead just being a part of our family and people engaging with us and with her. If that makes sense. Katie: Was that a shift for you to think of it that way?Ashley: I think possibly yeah I think I had an intrinsic sense of her belonging and her belonging in her community but I think I had to learn what things I want to bring our family around and to fuel and what things I want to invest in with our family, if that makes sense.Katie: Time-wise even?Ashley: Yeah.Katie: Where you're spending your time?Ashley: Yeah, we did study with our congregation with families and the number one asset the number one deficit that they had was time. That's your number one thing, right, you have to spend it where it counts and so for us we really decided that we look like being together as a family and being with our extended family and being with our neighbors.Katie: Yeah. I guess that part of it in the beginning you were looking at therapy and things to get her ready for people and now you're just like you're doing those things still.Ashley: Yeah, and I guess my answer is I always had a sense intrinsically that she belonged no matter what and I think that having conversations with my mentor affirmed my intrinsic sense of her belonging, does that make sense?Katie: Yes, do you think that hearing that from somebody who is in the disability field to say something as ordinary as like go get to know your neighbors, was that.. Because it's playing into your instincts as a parent that you already know and it seems like most places aren't playing into those instincts they're telling you ‘we're experts and this is what we know that you don't'. And for someone to give you something that you already know as a way of life, you have taken that and it's caught on so quickly and so rapidly.So I guess that was kind of part of my question was like in the beginning you were waiting maybe on ‘well we've got to get these things done, we've got to line this stuff up and then maybe we'll find community or maybe there will be a way to be connected to people, maybe there will be a better time' and then hearing from somebody who's in this role to say no it's now, that you do it the best time is now.Ashley: Yeah, I think it was helpful that my mentor also was involved with their neighborhood, like they're doing it, I've been involved in community and i know the fruits of it. It's helpful to be reminded that it's good and my eyes were just stuck on ensuring that I did everything that I thought I needed to do to support her. It was kind of like with blinders on just missing like the biggest piece of providing her abundant community now and making those connections.Katie: Well what I love about this too is that it's a metaphor for most people's lives, whatever that thing is that you're trying to do the best at, do right at is preventing you from just living and usually that is all you need to be doing. But we're going, we're trying to succeed or we're trying to reach these different heights that have these requirements and steps along the way.Ashley: And then we reach those and there's more. Yeah, we're on like the treadmill of the institution and instead of getting invited out of that and saying ok I'm also going to look for something outside of those boundaries to build my life on is huge.Katie: So what is at stake for you for your family if you don't make an effort then to get off the treadmill? If you don't make this effort to connect to the people around you?Ashley: My daughter being isolated as she gets older and I mean for a girl who is in my bones to know the joy of community that's just not an option. So it makes me really sad to think of her facing isolation when it's not in her bones either.Katie: Were you getting a glimpse of that already? I mean she's really young, were you already feeling like that was part of your lives or becoming part of your lives?Ashley: Well interestingly I was going to a lot of different community things, events and stuff and we were the only ones there who had a child with a disability and I was like I know that's that is not always the case but in the unique places that I was that was the case. So one I thought it was important that I was there and two I just hate that that's the culture that that's set out for families for anyone that's marginalized, right?Katie: The culture being we don't go to ordinary places in the community.Ashley: Yeah being like, well the culture being you're welcome if you are a certain way.Katie: Yes so the culture speaks more towards the families of and unwelcoming sense to say like there's a group for that and it's over there.Ashley: Yeah I think one thing was we belong and we're going and she was really young so I mean when you go to a six month old story time it's fine. Difference is more evident as kids age but I think so kids get older it probably would be more challenging to face that head on for the first time without having some understanding and foundation in kind of what do we believe about this what do we believe is true.Katie: As you grow into connections in your neighborhood do you think you're kind of heading off that uncomfortable feeling in the community when you, as your daughter does get older?Ashley: Yeah it's interesting because we have two or three intervention specialists in our neighborhood. So you can always tell when people have a predisposed idea and so you know you just meet those in conversation and bring to the conversations what you believe in small snippets over time. But yeah I think we have work to do and I think our daughter will lead the way in that with our support. So I think the biggest thing I think maybe it was a quote I read from Starfire, you guys were quoting someone that talked about when you toddle, have people who have known you since you've toddled. Do you remember that quote?Katie: David Pitonyak, “Who holds your story?”Ashley: They'll be like that's.. You know we know her, yeah?Katie: Yes. Ending on a piece of hope what is one hope that you have for your family in the next ten years that has to do with your community building work?Ashley: I hope that we establish rhythms with our neighbors that go on year after year and that we know one another's stories. And when my neighbor is sick I know what to make him because I know what he likes, you know, just the good life of community. And if my daughter is out and she isn't supposed to be out then they know me and they know where to bring her, or that she gets invited to the pool party across the street. Just the basic stuff, nothing extravagant but maybe extraordinary in this time, yeah. Katie: Yeah that is extraordinary, is there anything else you would want to say?Ashley: I don't think so.Katie: Ok I love that, thank you.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:1:11 - 2:31Carole: My name is Carole and I'm passionate about Japanese fashion and hopefully bringing it into community.Katie Anderson: My name is Katie, I am passionately working at this point to build community around fashion with Carole.Katie B: So fashion but particularly Japanese fashion?Carole: Mhm.Katie B: Tell me what type of Japanese fashion?Carole: It's Lolita. Lolita is inspired by the victorian European style era. Where they, you know like the ladies wear the poofy dresses, the over the top here, the styles they wear a lot of accessories jewelry. They wear petticoats under the dresses. It's kind of like that.2:32 - 3:55Katie B: Yeah and this was brought to Japan..Carole: This was brought to Japan at the time where the women were supposed to look stereotypical, they had certain standard how they wanted the women to look but the women didn't want to look like that anymore. They wanted to be themselves so they decided that they wanted to keep it and it was the opposite of what the Japan standard was.Katie B: So in some ways, this Japanese fashion Lolita is the anti-Japanese fashion?Carole: Mhm.Katie B: Ok, the Japanese fashion for rebels, rebel women?Carole: Yeah.Katie B: So tell me how you guys know each other, Katie how do you know Carole?Katie A: Carole and I are connected through Starfire as a community building partnership, so we've been working together for probably a year and a half now.Carole: Yeah.Katie B: What does that time look like?Carole: We get together every Wednesday.Katie A: Wednesday mornings.Carole: Wednesday mornings. Until noon and we go to coffee shops and we sit down a think about what is our next step of what we want to do in the community, with Lolita or something that has to do with my interests.3:56 - 5:56Katie B: So you guys get together around something that you're interested in and what was that in the beginning what did that look like in the beginning?Carole: Well it was hard at first because I'm interested in art and so we tried to get together with some artists but that didn't pan out so well, apparently artists like to be very.. Well either they're very busy or they're very shy to do anything with anybody else. They like to do their own thing.Katie B: More like introverts?Carole: Yeah.Katie B: I guess the perception of artists is that they don't necessarily want to hang out with each other but maybe in just the way that they hang out is in smaller groups and more intimate settings. So have you found people just that one on one connection to go and do art?Carole: When I visit Rhoda, I go over to her house and she has this like garage, she has her art studio in there and I go and we do art in there and we have a meal too. She gives me advice on how to do.. What she thinks I should do with my art, like add a color or a hint of a design or something.Katie B: Tell me who Rahda is again, just kind of explain who she is.Carole: Rahda is awesome. How do I explain her?Katie A: What kind of art does she do?Carole: She makes a lot of mandalas. Her artwork is all around the city.Katie A: You were recently involved with a project she did.Carole: Oh, we made prayer flags and she had them hung up at the Music Hall.Katie B: So drilling back in the time that you're spending together is around your interests and that fit in with your interest in being connected to someone in the art world but then tell me how the fashion piece started to come into play.5:57 - 8:02Carole: I had interest in the fashion since 2014 and I've always worn like little bows and things like that here and there. But I've really wanted to actually try it so I bought one of the little dress pieces and..Katie B: This was just on your own, you just kind of went online and found what you wanted?Carole: Yeah I went online and I also had help from mom too. Yeah she helps make some of my stuff sometimes and I mean I help with the sewing too. I've always watched my mom sew and she taught me some things.Katie B: Yeah. When you guys first started what were your first initial attempts, what did that look like?Katie A: Just from my conversations with Carole, and you can tell me if I'm wrong Carole, you enjoyed art but you kind of felt like that had run its course as far as creating a project. So our plan together would be to keep up those connections you had and start fresh with a new idea. Which we started doing cosplay, so we thought we'd meet some people around cosplay.Carole: Yeah, that didn't really work out so well. Nobody really showed up.Katie B: At the cosplay meetings?Carole: Yeah, after one meeting we had like a few people but then after that nobody else started coming so it kind of stopped.Katie B: How did that feel when something you tried didn't work out?Carole: I mean it hurts because you know you put your heart into it and passion and you take your time on making like these little arts and crafts that we had.Katie B: What were the arts and crafts?Katie A: The idea was to have like when someone passed by they could just kind of join in and grab it real fast and make something without feeling like they had to be a major cosplayer.Katie B: Were there things that you learned from that and you were like ok we got to do something different?Carole: After that we just kind of figured well this is not going so well so..8:03 - 11:12Katie A: Then I think we just had some conversations around ok that's not working, what else are you interested in? So it was just some more research and we had talked a lot about fashion.Carole: Yeah.Katie A: And we went to Facebook.Katie B: Oh yes. The Facebook.Carole: Then we went to Facebook.Katie B: What did you find there? What was..Carole: There were like two Loltia groups for Ohio.Katie A: And that was something that you were involved in separately from me.Carole: Yeah but I wasn't like active, like I am now. Katie A: Yeah. Katie B: So you had already been a part of those groups on Facebook but not really actively posting on stuff. So you find them and you are like ok and you guys discover them together like hey this is something we could look into more and really at that point it's just a random group of people that you don't know in person, you just know they all like the same thing. How do you start to come up with an idea of how to meet them in person? Because the goal isn't to stay digital it's to have some sense of social connection that's live.Carole: Well somebody had asked the group like if I set up a meeting, meet up in Cincinnati what would you want? So it was kind of set up already for us.Katie A: Yeah there was a list of like thirty five things that people wanted, so we were like this is an opportunity, let's choose one and let's plan it.Carole: Yeah they wanted tea events, they wanted crafting events, they wanted it all. So we decided ok let's have a tea event and also let's have a crafting event at the tea event too. The first time we didn't do any crafting but we had a few people come out to the tea event at Essention?Katie A: Yeah, Essention Tea.Carole: Oh one of the Lolita's we met at the cafe that we always go to, her name is Breanna.Katie B: And you met her how?Carole: She came up to me because I was wearing Lolita that day, and we were working on finding like what to do with the Lolitas. And she was like, “Excuse me, are you wearing Lolita, or are you a Lolita? And I was like, “Yes.” And she was like, “Oh my gosh.”Katie B: So she just randomly saw you sitting at the coffee shop and saw this woman over there, wearing this fashion that if I saw it I wouldn't have a clue.. She obviously did and she came up and said, “Hey” she wanted to talk to you.Carole: Yeah. And she's like “I wear Lolita too.” And she was very happy. And I was like huh, somebody else knows about Lolita besides me here? And she was like “I don't really see anybody wearing it here but I saw you and I had to come rush over and get your number and then we started talking.Katie B: Ok, so the spark happened there.11:13 - 16:18Katie B: Where you there when that happened Katie?Katie A: I was there and it was like I didn't exist, it was awesome. They just went into their Lolita language and they..Katie B: What is Lolita language?Carole: We talk about like petticoats and wrist cuffs.Katie B: So then you have Breanna, and you have a Facebook group and you start with that premise of we're going to do this because this is what people in the Facebook group are saying they want, in Cincinnati, and when you got to the tea party, when you got to that day tell me the steps leading up, what made it possible? What made it successful and what the day of like how did that feel when you got there?Carole: We made a Facebook event and we invited all of the Lolita's in the group and I think by the time like a day before, it was like five people who said they could come. It only ended up being me, Katie, Breanna, and two other girls but it was a big deal because people actually showed up.Katie B: Yes, people you invited came.Carole: Yeah, we were very worried other people wouldn't be able to come because it was raining that day. It was raining and…Katie B: Oh do Lolita's not like to get wet?Carole: No if we really want to go we're going to go, it was just..Katie A: You take an hour putting your dress on you're not staying at home, right?Carole: Yes, like today I got up at six and I didn't get completely dressed, like everything together, until like 8. It takes forever to get together. So it started raining and I was like oh I wonder, and it was windy too, and I said oh I hope somebody wearing a petticoat, I hope they brought their umbrellas because it's raining. But..Katie B: See that was one of the things, everybody showed up and you were..Carole: And we had a group picture and all that.Katie A: I think one of the important things too was, was Breanna like we had already had that initial conversation, one on one, like this would be really cool right to meet up and she had felt that personal connection to her relationship with Carole.Carole: Oh yeah, because we had met before the event too.Katie B: I think that's really important that you just pointed that out because there's something about the personal invitation that makes people want to show up more than maybe with your original event, which was a cosplay event, and that was more of a like did you make a flyer for that and just invite people?Carole: We made events, we made the whole nine yards.Katie A: Right, but we hadn't been able to meet anyone kind of like who you were really really connected with, which just happened and I feel like that's how relationships are sometimes. And I think that's part of Breanna's struggle too is that she wasn't able to find someone so when she found Carole she was like we are doing this, let's plan some stuff and let's find some people. Yeah.Carole: I'll give you my number, we'll text. So every now and then before we get new dresses or something we'll text each other and be like hey it finally came and oh let me see. And then we'll send a picture of the dress and be like “Oh this would cute with this accessory or this would be cute with this color or something. Katie B: Yeah and you're pointing out that there's a connection beyond just the day of the tea event there's like stuff to talk about and things to text each other for so you have this friendship that formed. Which is awesome, and that couldn't have been forced, right? Like you had a level of serendipity just being there and showing up in community to make this random connection turn into something like a friendship, there was no formula or path or steps A to B, except for continuing to get out there and try and not giving up after that first disappointment with the cosplay event not working out, right?Carole: Yeah.Katie B: So time and..Katie A: Bravery.Katie B: Bravery.Carole: Because had it not worked out I don't know what we'd be doing.Katie A: It's almost easier to say, you know, this didn't work and let's just not do it anymore.Katie B: Right, what would you be doing do you think, if you had given up and stopped trying? What would you do instead? What are your other options?Carole: I would have been at home right now, I would have gave all the way up because that's what I did before when it didn't work out but I'm happy it worked out this time because I get to get out and meet other people and do new things. Like there's another event Sunday and they're having a brunch. The same Lolita that came to a couple of our tea events and her mom is doing Lolita now.16:19 - 18:49Katie B: So your first attempt to get something going in Cincinnati is now taken a life of its ownCarole: Yeah and now everybody wants to..Katie B: And now you're getting invited to those.Carole: Yeah.Katie B: When you think about connecting Carole you know outside of agency settings, day programs, workshops and things like that do you think that is a way of you saying like these aren't good enough?Carole: I think what I'm trying to say is that they could do better. Like the way they're doing it now is not helping anyone express themselves, I think. LIke a lot of the ways that most people or the person with a disability doesn't have a choice. They are pretty much stuck in the box but I think if you give that person a chance to express themselves then you'd be surprised.Katie B: So there's a limited options based on what the box defines as choice?Carole: They don't really give us a choice to decide anything. I think they figure because of what they see on the paper is how they should treat us but we're more than just the paper. We're human too.Katie B: Yeah, there's options like going out to eat or going to the movies but getting into what your purpose is in life there isn't much interest in exploring that.Carole: Yeah, there's other.. people have other interests besides movie or Youtube.Katie B: Does that happen at day programs? Do you watch Youtube a lot?Carole: Yes, we watch a lot of Youtube. We watch a lot of movies. We play video games or we draw. Not that I have a problem with drawing they have like open art, but I like to be told we're doing charcoal, we're doing sketching, and we don't really do that.18:50 - 20:59Katie B: Yeah, you're more interested in deepening your skill set and learning more and getting.. being taken seriously when it comes to your art. And Rhoda provides that for you in a sense of what you were saying earlier she critiques your art and says why don't you add a little color here or there, and you're learning from here but in the day program setting it might just be something like here's something to do.Carole: Here's something to do. Like I don't mind doing it but I want to learn not just here do this. Like if I go to a program I want to feel like I'm doing something I'm not just here to be babysat.Katie B: So do you feel other people that you know in the day program feel the same way? Because you're an extremely articulate person when it comes to this topic and I always like having this conversation with you because you put it so well but I wonder if some people you know who may can't articulate it this way, do they feel similarly? And how is that you know that or don't?Carole: I feel like I can always tell when someone is frustrated because of how the program is, or they want to do something but no one is listening. They're trying to tell them but they can't really tell them, I mean I can tell the staff about what they're trying to do but programs period don't really listen to the people there they just feel like you know well we have this client so we have to do this and make money. But people just want to feel like they're heard, and they're not heard a lot. And it's frustrating because when we come to the program we have all these nice things but we aren't getting to where we are supposed to be getting.Katie B: So it looks like a good program on the outside..Carole: It looks like a good program on the outside but on the inside it's different.21:00 - 21:44Katie B: Yeah, living it day to day is different, is what you're saying?Carole: Yeah. It needs to change too because it's kind of hurtful to the people who go there day to day but they not being listened to and they're set up in this little box of everybody is on the same level. But everybody is on different levels and they think they should be on one, the staff thinks they should be on one level. And that frustrates people, that frustrates me sometimes.Katie B: Right and then..Carole: And some people can't say they don't like it. If I try to stand up for myself or other people they feel like I'm trying to step on their toes. I'm.. no, I'm just trying to tell you how I want to be treated or how I want things to be done so it would make it easier for you it would make it easier for me and everybody else.21:45 - 26:45Katie B: There are people being put into a group who all have varying needs varying interests varying different ways of showing up in the world and what you're trying to deal with as Carole the woman who loves art and Lolita and fashion and Japanese culture is sort of like plain beige, you know, no options. And on top of that sometimes you're feeling like you're not heard and you're not listened to and the people around you are not heard and are not being listened to and on the side of the staff, their challenge there is really really hard is to say somehow I have to provide a service that makes everyone in this room happy right now. And that makes everyone feel like they have an option or choice and while that's impossible there are still programs out there who are saying that they do that, right? Do you have empathy for that, like sort of set up for people who are in that situation as a staff person trying to make it work because of course we're not trying to paint this picture that everyone's bad?Carole: I feel like.. No, no, no not everybody is bad. I feel like you can do something good intentionally but sometimes it doesn't show, it doesn't show up the way you want it to. They feel like they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, I do feel for them because like they think they're doing good things but they're missing some things. And so sometimes you have tell what.. I see what you're doing, you're doing a good job but here's some things that could help you do things better.Katie B: I like that and Katie I want to bring you into this conversation too because I think there's also a way to do the work that's being done at Starfire now in a way that can either be you're listening and you're hearing and you're one on one and you're doing this great work and you're in the community and there's also the way of doing it that isn't great. You could still be one on one but you could be going to a restaurant everyday.Carole: Yeah.Katie B: Or you could be kind of doing stuff that isn't intentionally driving toward community building experience, right? So Katie what ways are you intentional in this role that you try and save guard from stepping into maybe a status quo type role?Katie A: When I'm thinking about our time together it's really thinking about Carole as the leader of our time together, so always thinking about planning things around her interest and planning for something that's going to bring other people into what we're doing. Like when we talk about the tea or we talk about other events, those things are always going to bring people, other people that are going to connect to Carole into our work together. So it's not just me and Carole doing things, it's me and Carole and someone else who is going to build on Carole's interests and connection..Katie B: Yeah so you, ok so you're being the bridge? It reminds me of a quote from Janet Lee who is a woman out of Toronto whose life work has been about liberating people with disabilties from segregated settings and building around interests and connections and we've learned a lot from Janet Lee. One of the things she says is, she asks the question of people, “When you leave [because at some point Katie you might leave, you might quit Starfire right and Carole you're nodding your head, like you've had a lot of different staff]..”Carole: Yeah I have a lot of different staffs.Katie B: At Starfire, yeah. So that's an inevitability that we kind of face and we own up to in this work and so what she asks is, “When you leave are you a void [in Carole's life] because you were her only friend? Or are there more people in your life [Carole now] because [Katie] someone was a bridge?” And I love that way of framing what you just said which is that Katie you said that the work that you do isn't about you and Carole, it's about you and Carole and somebody else always. Is that what you value about your time Carole or is there something about that that resonates with you Carole?Carole: I think, I agree with the bridge because sometimes it takes a bridge to get things moving. Everybody has a way to connect with other people, even if Katie is not available I'm able to still go to like some of the meet ups with the other Lolita's, if I know someone from our other tea event is going to be there. And I'll go because I know them already.26:46 - 28:37Katie A: I think the cool thing about our work is it's teamwork. It's scary to show up to something by yourself and I don't necessarily have to be the Starfire support person I'm just a person who doesn't know much about Lolita.Katie B: How do you show up as a team member without it being “I'm her staff” and making Carole look or feel different than everyone else because you're there?Katie A: I get to have the unique position of I don't know much about Lolita so can you all educate me? And I am going to buy my first dress and..Carole: Yeah, I helped pick out the dress, and Brianna helped her let her know that it was a good beginners dress.Katie B: So there's a way that you are adapting to this lifestyle? You're starting to blend in in a way and it doesn't mean that that's something that you're going to take on for life but Katie is this more of a way for you to show up more intentionally so that you do blend in not as a staff person but..Katie A: Right, right and it's honoring Carole's interest also. I think it's important, I don't know, it's interesting to learn new things, I love learning new things. Carole has taught me lots.Carole: Plus I don't want to introduce Katie as my staff.Katie B: How do you introduce her?Carole: My friend. Or this is Katie.Katie B: Yeah.Katie A: And I think we early on kind of made the agreement we met through volunteering because that really is what we're doing, we're working as a team to volunteer to build community..Katie B: I love that.Carole: So that way they don't feel like, “Oh well this is an event, but we have a staff here..”Katie A: That's not how I want to be seen either. You know, I want to be seen..Carole: Just put a sticker that says Katie right there, staff member.Katie B: It would be a lot harder to make those natural connections.28:38 - 30:52Katie B: And also Carole what you said before which is just so powerful is that Katie is so much a part of it in a way that is a catalyst, she helped get things moving by being a bridge. But if she stepped away tomorrow you're still going on your own and people aren't seeing Katie as essential to your presence.Carole: Yeah.Katie B: Yeah, you can be there, and Katie you've stayed out of the way enough for Carole to really be the one making these relationships. They're about her relationships not you, you're not texting Brianna, are you, at night?Katie A: She's not asking me for any advice.Carole: No.Katie B: Well you guys this is such a beautiful story and thank you so much for sharing it I really appreciate it, you taking this time. What is your hope, let's end with that, what is your hope for the next ten years Carole of building community around your interest?Carole: My hope in the next ten years I hope that a lot of people that have built good relationships with and community with, being more friendships. We're small we're very small so I'm hoping also that we get bigger. And we start to see other people making their own Lolita communities inside of Cincinnati.Katie B: A ripple effect. What about you Katie?Katie A: I would hope for Carole that you just keep making your voice heard, you have so many wonderful things to say and to bring to the community, you know.Carole: I will do my best.Katie B: I have no doubt, yeah. Well thank you guys.Carole: Thank you

Download the Pocketbook Guide: https://www.starfirecincy.org/guidebookTRANSCRIPT:Katie: Yeah so pivoting a little bit I'd like to talk about this idea that for people with disabilities especially because that's what we care a lot about at Starfire, that this connection to social services usually means a disconnection from community life.That it means a person getting kind of pulled off the path of community member and onto a path as a client. What can you say just initially about how that looks and how that works for people with disabilities?John: I learned a lot from people who are labeled disabled, I'm not the wise guy on this. My response is I've learned from people with the real experience. One of these people was a Canadian named Pat Worth. And Pat was a younger man when I first met him, maybe 25, rather tall. He had escaped from an institution for the developmentally disabled, big old fashioned institution. And he said to me, “You know I think, one of the things, not all but one of the thing we ought to do is to organize people who are labeled in local communities so they could have a strong voice. Not their parents, not the professionals, but them, me, right?” He said, “You know about organizing, will you come with me for a month across Canada and see if we can start little organizations in the major cities of people who could come together and become a voice for themselves?” And so we did that and we got started with a fair number of groups. They chose as a name People First. When we got done we ended up in Vancouver after a month Pat said to me, “Now I think you can finally understand that our problem is not that we are disabled, our problem is we are disorganized. And the answer for us is to be organized.” But he also recognized, “and become active in communities.”And I think initially that he had the idea that People First would be entry points into community life because they would be independent of agencies and systems.Once we understand what Pat understood, that what we call and label a disability is really a name for a lack of power to join everyday life. The lack of power to join everyday life. And Pat had discovered how to make that power when he escaped from the institution, right?So one of the basic things I think about the movement is, is everyday life goal? Is being a citizen in connection with others the place in life that you're trying to achieve? And Pat had that in mind when he formed the group, but he first thought we ought to get enough power to get free of people who were controlling us and then we would have the possibility of moving to the world where we were connected rather than disconnected, or disorganized.Another thing, one of my best friends, she passed away I think now three years ago, was another Canadian named Judith Snow. I think she was very famous in the United States too. And Judith was born so that she could only move her thumb and her face. And we became very, very close friends. She used to come and visit us for her vacation. And she told me one time she said, “You know it wasn't until I was thirty years of age that I really understood who I was.”And she said, “I had spent so much of my life being labeled and accepting the label and fighting the label but that didn't tell me who I was.” And then she said to me, “When I was thirty I had a revelation, and it is that I am exactly the person who God created me to be and therefore I have every reason in the world to participate in this world because I have God's gifts.”Now you don't have to put it in religious terms, you could say “I have gifts.” And so I think the relentless, relentless insistence that the critical question about somebody is not what's wrong. It is, what's their gift? And building a life out from their gift is the key to entering community.Katie: You know for listeners who don't know who Judith Snow is she is a pioneer really in education, in training programs, she's an author, she's written a lot of things and I actually had pulled a quote of hers leading up to this because I knew of your friendship with her.“A gift is a personal quality that when it's brought into relationships in a valued way allows opportunity to emerge.” - Judith SnowJohn: Oh boy, that's Judith. And Judith was a person who wanted to be a part of everyday life and I remember one time we have sort of a weekend home up in rural Wisconsin. She knew I was a fishermen and so she said to me, let's go fishing. And I didn't know about whether or not that was something that was going to be very good for her or if she'd really like it. But we went and the place we went to fish had some canoes and she said, well if I'm going to fish, I'll have to be in a canoe. And she was in a wheelchair. You know and the idea of getting her into that canoe seemed to me a little perilous. But she had an aid and we got into the canoe. You know they're a little tippy, I was very careful, a little afraid. And we went out together and I fished and she talked with me and watched and enjoyed the lake. And I caught more fish than I've ever caught before.And I thought you know, she made me a real fishermen by taking her adventure, desire to discover, to be a part of it all. And she brought me into that world, and see what a benefit I got?Katie: And those are exactly the gifts that she's talking about.John: Right.Katie: Yeah, I love the list that you share that she has, that she said the gifts that people with labeled with disability have. I'll link to that in the show notes for people to see but it's brilliant.One thing you mentioned when you were speaking about Pat's story that I want to go back to is that sometimes parents, in the time that Pat was advocating and starting People First, parents were actually getting in the way of people with disabilities being part of community life. And now today, what we're doing at Starfire is really putting families at the center of building community and we're asking families and parents to participate alongside their children with or without disabilities to be a part of effective community change. So how do you know when you're on the right track with that, as a parent, as a neighbor, as a connector, how do you know when you're on the right track with building community?John: You know that very idea is pioneering. I'm looking forward to learning from these families what kind of things they did, sometimes it might not have worked, I'd like to know that too. So I think I would probably approach the question you're asking the same way I would approach if you weren't say, anybody involved happened to have a label. And I would say that a family might first examine themselves in two ways: number one what do we all care about? What common interest do we have? And the second is: what gifts do we have? Those answers to those two questions are the keys to opening your access into community life.Because you'll usually find that almost any interest that people have there is some group, club, or association that is focused around that. So if you can come to that part of the communities' life with what makes the group work anyway, a common interest about the same thing, I think that's a pretty clear path to becoming engaged. Now you're not creating something anew but something new may grow out of that relationship, right? And the other possibility is your gifts as against your interests. Your gifts are key to your entry into community. So what do we have that we care about, and can share, can use as our key and if we have been great stewards of Christmas maybe we can bring more Christmas to the block than the block has had before. I think that's happened with one of your groups. So they're looking at what they have to offer as the starting point that would involve other people who are attracted to that. Now, there aren't a lot of people sitting around thinking, “Gee, I'd like to have a better Christmas.” But when a group of people offer them a better Christmas, right? All of a sudden they're attracted. And that's what makes almost all groups work.Natural groups, clubs, groups and associations in neighborhoods are groups of people who are together for one or two reasons or both. Number one they care about each other, number two they care about the same thing.Very often the way you come to care about one another is you get together because you care about the same thing. And then your care for each other grows. So those are the avenues I think of, what's the ramp into the community? And it's interests and gifts. And your honest conviction that you have something to offer, and not that the community will solve your problems.You have something to offer. Everybody does. I've never met anybody who didn't have something to offer.Katie: So it sounds like you're on the right track as long as you are using gifts as your north star and you're focusing on that and the minute you start to veer off into some other direction maybe around your empty half or the problems, or going toward the service to fix things then you're kind of veering away from the path.John: Yes, excellent summary.Katie: One of the things that you worked on in Chicago was a project called Logan Square. You were the principal investigator in this what became a publication written by Mary O'Connell. And in this introduction Mary starts to describe the myths of the ideal of a small town past where “people sipped lemonade together on the front porch, watched out for the neighbors kids, shared the works of the town and the fruits of their gardens.” And I think there's a common argument, especially today, we're very aware of how the way things used to be is oftentimes mythologized, you know, things were way worse back then for people who were marginalized typically who are left out typically. People with disabilities, people of color, people who are part of the LGBTQ community, people who are typically just like I said left out of communities. So when we're talking about community building are you trying to get back to the way things were, or how do you marry those two ideas? Because I know you worked a lot with civil rights in your career?John: Well I'm not sure they're two things. I think people who are concerned about civil rights are concerned about equality and they're overcoming formal ways of exclusion. So you can't discriminate against me when I eat or when I'm in a restaurant or when I'm seeking housing. Those are formal ways of overcoming exclusion. But the law can't reach to a local community that may be exclusive, right? You can't pass a law saying you can't be exclusive here folks. You've got to include everybody.So I think our asset based development effort is always circumscribed by something that Judith said, and she was one of our best faculty members.She said, “It's our job to ensure that there's always a welcome at the edge. That exclusion is not what binds us together but invitation and welcome is what binds us together.”I think that the idea of “civil rights” works as a means of dealing with formal structures and systems - but it is invitation and inclusion that works in the space that isn't the formal world.Katie: It's so interesting how you just put that because it goes back to what you said about police officers, we need to generate safety in our own communities. They can't be the only answer, and same with laws, laws can't be the only answer in creating equality or inclusivity. We have to be the inviters and conveners.John: People of color, people with labels of any kind live in a world where the majority or at least a large number of people, do not respect them. And laws will not produce respect. But if somebody on a block says, I know this person who's been on the margin and they have something to offer, come on in, we need you and that gets shared. Then you begin to see respect. And it's the building of respect I think that is very much a word that says, we want you because you are valued, we know you have something to offer.Katie: That's beautiful. I'd like to just end with one final kind of question and it's something that I like to end on usually is hope but I think too we need change and sometimes when you end on hope it doesn't motivate people to do anything on their own. So I'd like to motivate people today with this question. What is the most urgent call to action that you think we have today as citizens?John: Know your neighbor. Start at home. Margaret Mead said that all change starts with small groups of people. It doesn't start out there it starts in here. So just historically if you want to change things, go next door, start there.

John McKnight has spent a lifetime dedicated to the common good. He's a Korean War veteran, who worked under John F Kennedy to create the affirmative action program, he was the Director of the Midwest office of the United States Commission on Civil Rights before leaving the government to work in communities. Among his many works, he is the author of The Careless Society – a critique of professionalized social services and celebration of communities' ability to heal themselves from within. Alongside Peter Block, John is the Co-Founder of the Asset Based Community Development Institute housed at DePaul University and Senior Associate of the Kettering Foundation. And it also helps to mention that John trained a young President Obama in Chicago when he was a Community Organizer. He later wrote one of Obama's letters of recommendation to help him enter Law School!I really hope this interview with John can help anyone on the path to building community in your own neighborhood!Check out free trainings on how to be a connector at ABCD institute: https://resources.depaul.edu/abcd-institute/resources/Pages/tool-kit.aspxAbundant Community Initiative in Edmonton, Canada: https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/for_communities/abundant-community-edmonton.aspx

Kathleen shares her story about her families' belief in a life with big possibilities and dreams - and not being defined by disability. TRANSCRIPT: When Grace was born she was born with some issues, we didn't know right away it took a few months. But for some reason my husband and I took on this belief that we were not going to be defined by whatever this was that was going on with Grace. And it was partly because at that time we had a three year old son and we just kept thinking like ok so we are going to have some serious issues going on with Grace we are going to have to give her lots of attention we get that. We understand, like we went to counseling and we understand we are going to constantly grieve the loss of her dreams or our dreams for her, etc. etc. But we kept thinking we've got this three year old boy too, we can't just be focused on Grace. And we can't define Ben by Grace. And I didn't want to be defined by Grace. Like I saw myself having friends and connections and doing things that were unrelated to disability. So we really had this mindset that we can't be defined by this disability. And I will tell you that it is profoundly hard to work against that because for my daughters condition there's an organization out there, she has a neuromuscular condition so its MDA. So immediately, MDA gets involved right at the hospital, they want to be involved in your life and they want you to give money and all this other stuff, right? And if you have someone who's born with Down syndrome it's the exact same thing, right? And I'm sure it is with autism and all of these groups. And I understand that all of these groups do really great work and some of them like the MDA fund a lot of important research for treatments and cures and all that stuff. So I am not down playing the importance of that, but what happens as a parent is you're inundated from the get-go with ‘be a part of the disability community.' And that was hard for us because we were thinking like ok, we are not this is not who we are, like we don't define ourselves this way. We had this belief in Grace from the get-go and I remember a doctor looking at me like I had four heads. And I told them all Grace is going to go to college and she's going to do whatever she wants in life. We had these huge beliefs that Grace could do anything, in some ways it was bad because Grace isn't going to college. And to have this mindset of that being what defines a successful life, is not good. If she doesn't go to college that doesn't mean she isn't important or wonderful. The good part of it is we just always had dreams for her. And we believed she could do a lot of things. So we weren't even in therapies and we love OTs, but you know you get to a point and you can't applaud what accomplishment she just made, you immediately have to fix the next thing. But we wanted to be focused on the positive. And we would say often we don't want to be the poster family for MDA, we don't want to be the poster family for disability. And that's how we lived our lives. And then after that, we found a school. And literally this school — I went in one day, they never looked at Grace in terms of disability. It just wasn't an issue. Grace went in and she needed a walker at this time to go in. She went in with her walker and they did, I don't want to call them interviews, but it was just to see if the child was ready to go to school at that point. And she went in with her walker and she did what most two and a half year olds do, which was cry like anything because their mom just left them and they're in this room with all these kids they don't know and never met before and these teachers. They accepted her and I want to make sure I quote this correctly, but I remember going into school one day for these little teas that they do, it was a Montessori school, Mercy Montessori. And they invite you into a tea that your child does for you. I went in and we were sitting in this little circle in these teeny tiny chairs. And the kids are all on the floor. And Grace is on one side of me and another kid is on the other side of me. And the other child puts his or her (I don't remember) hand on my leg and says “now she is going to need to use your leg to stand up so she's just going to stand up that way.” I was like oh my gosh, like he didn't say she can't get up. What that little child said was this is how she does it. And then I followed her to her work, which is what they call them at Montessori. And her partner said to me, it was a little boy. So you will see that I do it this way and Grace does it this way and we just both get it done. And it was amazing. Now one of the things that I did do is they asked me if I wanted to address the class, when Grace first joined and talk about Grace's concerns or issues or anything. And I said no I don't want to do that because then what everyone hears is that Grace can't do this, or you need to help her with this and I just felt like everyone will figure it out. Between the teachers and the students, they all figured it out. And it was just beautiful. And we stumbled across that. We really did. We were just looking for Montessori setting because our OT said I think it would be good for her to be in a Montessori setting. So that's all we were looking for and this is what we found and it was wonderful and it was in line with what we valued as a family, but we also failed. So swimming upstream, we finally cave at one point. MDA said we'd really like to hear your family's perspective it's a little different then a lot of our other families. And I thought well that's fine we could do that because they're letting us talk about our perspective. Well it was awful, and I had to cut it short because basically they wanted me to tell a sob story about our daughter in order to get money, right? And I hate it, I get it but I hate it. So the man came to our home and started to asking me these very specific questions that were to go down this sob story path. And I just had to say look we're not going down that path. You either say what we want to say or we end it right here. So he let us say a few things and I think it was a very abbreviated I think film for what they were looking for. But we learned a really valuable lesson that you have to hold strong, you have to understand what other peoples' values are, because even when you cave, maybe you cave into someone who really shares your values. But there are going to be lots of places where you feel like you're going to cave and you do cave like we did, and their values are not our values and we didn't get that. If we had gotten that, we probably wouldn't have caved. The other thing that I would say is, you know, as a family we do struggle. My husband worries about the finances, (I'm not crying I really have something in my throat) — I worry about the friendships, whose going to be in Grace's life. We've taken Grace and Ben to several countries, multiple times. And Grace's disability has never stopped us from doing anything. She's had this amazing life and that helps move me upstream. Where we are today is, we no longer have our dreams for Grace, we have Grace's dreams for Grace. Her dreams are to become an actress on Broadway. So we are not going to crush Grace's dreams ever. She can try to do that as long as she wants. We will support her to the best of our ability to do that. Eventually she'll figure out that, you know what, I just want to be in Cincinnati and if I can be in something related to theater and history I'll be good. And I think she'll come to that on her own. So we're on this path now where she's doing a lot of things around that.. She's doing a one-woman show, that she and myself and some else has written, and she's going to perform that hopefully in the spring. She's doing this with an actress who actually was in the movie that's just out with Robert Redford “The Old Man and the Gun” I think it's called, and she works with Grace every week. Grace has invited her to go to some plays and she has gone to these plays with us. So this is a person who until Grace's high school acting teacher gave me her name, she had no sense of anyone with a disability. But she understands what it is to be an African American woman in the theater. And so she knows how you can be marginalized that way. We also - we support her to have people who know her. So Grace today is in the church choir, she's not in a special needs choir. She's probably not the best singer, in fact I've kind of thought she might be the worst singer until the other day and someone was a cantor and I though, yeah maybe not. She's working with Starfire to do a StoryCorps. So people are seeing Grace now as the person in the choir but also the person who is doing this StoryCorps thing. And when Grace is not at choir, people stop us on the way out of church, “Where's Grace?” She's missed when she's not in choir. So those are really great ways of Grace being in the community. So slowly but surely — Grace is in a valued role. And I think that's all I wanted to say. That's our family.

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TRANSCRIPT:0:00 – 0:44Bridget: I'm Bridget Vogt and I have worked at Starfire for twenty years in a variety of ways.Katie: That's two decades. So that's a long time. What has been all the variety of ways?Bridget: When I first started it was just office help and doing the outings that we had during the evening and weekends. You know a few years after that we started a day program so I started that, doing the day program. A few years after that we started StarfireU, so I worked in both and then just StarfireU and now I am doing one-on-one work with people and their families.0:45 – 2:46Katie: What do you think has changed in the way that you show up to work from then and now, and what has stayed the same?Bridget: Well I'd say there's just a different way of showing up when you're starting your day with a room of 12 people or 15 or 20 people with disabilities versus showing up and talking to one person at a time. There's a much different energy, there's a different effort, there's a different priority that is just the reality of probably day program life. You know, you're hoping that everybody gets along and that they can say they had a pretty good day and I think the days of working with a group of people at a time it is more about being an entertainer and showing them a good time and keeping them happy and building them up. Now working just with one person at a time it is still about building them up and making sure they're confident but it's not quite the same, the word entertainer keeps coming to mind. The people who were really successful in the day program that keep coming to mind were the staff with big personalities who drew people in with just who they were naturally and they could almost perform, if that makes sense. They were a good storyteller or funny, all those things, and that's not necessarily as useful or needed with just one person. So you're still building into the person to help them understand who they are and that they're a good person, that they have gifts to give, what are they, and figuring all that stuff out. And that's kind of the biggest difference is working with one person and thinking.. You know.. Where do you belong... what do you do? Where are you going to be happy doing?Katie: Yeah, so it's a little bit more of an in-depth conversation when you're sitting with somebody, you don't need to be the entertainer. You need to be the deep listener and over-shadowing a person by being too enthusiastic or too much of the entertainer could give the opposite effect than when you're working with just one person at the time.Bridget: Yeah, I think that's possible. Like I definitely think that's happened, you know we're working to help people meet people and if you kind of take over and don't let that person who you're working with shine more than you than you're not doing a very good job.2:57 – 4:30Katie: Yeah, so you stayed through this change, and you've had to turn on different parts of you or skills/strengths that you have during the change, and so what's been really consistent about the work? Obviously, it's kept you here, doing it.Bridget: Well I think we have, one way or another, throughout these times — we did what we thought was best and that's still the case. I care a great deal for all the people we've met with disabilities out there. And to recognize that appealing to a group of people doesn't change what happens in their lives in ten years. Letting that sink in and figuring out how to do something that hopefully will mean something in ten years with or without my presence is the bigger key too. So I think that's what keeps me here, is the belief that what I'm doing is going to matter in ten years to these people that I know. Katie: So obviously like a deep well of love or care for people with disabilities is consistent in you, you showed up in both worlds with that, with that intention.Bridget: Yeah, yeah I'd say so. There wasn't a whole lot of outside forces drawing or keeping me. There are plenty of potentially simpler things to do out there in the world definitely probably more lucrative things to do out there in the world but that's not where my heart was or what I felt called to do. Annd Starfire seemed like a good place at the time when I started here.4:31 – 6:30Katie: Yeah, Starfire had something different even back then twenty years ago than other places, it was founded by family members who were looking for a better way and so that thread of intentionality and family driven-ness has kind of carried through.One of the things you told me before this podcast around building community was that If we want other people to learn how to build community or do it on their own we have to really learn how to do it ourselves. Take me back to when things did try to shift to Starfire being more of a community building place for people with disabilities to connect to the community — and what was your involvement in the community when that change started to happen?Bridget: You know, before anyone saw any changes at Starfire before it started to change Tim and I, mainly Tim, started doing a lot more learning around topics like asset-based community development (ABCD). And being introduced to some concepts that we had not heard of or knew anything about and kind of working through those and wrestling with some of the things we were learning with. You know if there was a belief that the community is the answer, it sounds great that the community can be the answer but we don't always see it. But part of why I think for us what we had to acknowledge was well our community is not our answer, we've lived in Bellevue for three years and we don't know anyone, we only know two of our neighbors and that's probably about it. And we go to work and then we come back and then we had some old friends from like college and high school and those are who we see and not our neighbors.That was sort of the beginning of noticing, we don't really know our neighbors so this idea of community being the answer is just ridiculous. But is it ridiculous or is it that we just haven't tried? And if this is possible, if community is the answer, then we probably need to figure out what community it is, and what does it look like and what are we doing to be active in our community. 6:31 – 7:06Katie: Describe Bellevue, describe what that neighborhood is like.Bridget: It is one square mile, in Kentucky, on the river.Katie: Is that it?Bridget: Yeah, one square mile.Katie: Oh wow.Bridget: You didn't know we were that little? So it's pretty small, what else would you say about Bellevue. It's overall a working class neighborhood.Katie: How many people in the one square mile?Bridget: I don't know.Katie: It's pretty concentrated, like there are a lot of houses.Bridget: Yeah, I mean it's urban. You know houses are very close together there's not a lot of yards.Katie: There's a big.. There's a great little main strip there with coffee shops and...Bridget: Yeah like your typical main street.Katie: Kind of on the river.Bridget: Close to it, yeah.7:07 – 9:16Katie: Ok, so when you're thinking back to that time and you're just learning these new concepts around community building and you're looking in you're neighborhood and you're like ok there's.. We don't have any connections here.. Did you have any revelations at that time or what started to shift and how did you start building community?Bridget: Tim was a little more, I know he had been to Peter Block and John McKnight and they had been talking about neighborhood interviews. Truly going and finding people and interviewing them and Tim did that. He was like, “Alright the challenge is I've got to meet five different people, I'm going to interview them on their gifts and talents,” and then he was like, “you should too.” And I said maybe in a more informal way.Katie: What was your hesitation around that?Bridget: Yeah, well it's weird right, like this is an awkward beginning of like ‘hey stranger' or someone that I've just seen in passing, ‘Could we sit down and I'll interview you?' I think anyone would say once they've done it it's not weird at all it's just the hurdle of asking. Because I think I did talk to a few people but I didn't… I would just kind of talk to them instead of like scheduling it. I would just kind of be in a conversation and kind of work my way through what the interview probably would be.Katie: So like what are your talents, interests, passions, skills?Bridget: Yeah what do you like to do?Katie: So you kind of start with the low hanging fruit, I already know them..Bridget: I started with the easy-peasy, ‘Hey friend that I already know' and then we started talking about doing a starting a community garden in Bellevue, I wanted to do it, one of the people we like already knew was interested in doing it and then that kind of grew out of there. Like ok throw it out to the masses, who would want to start a community garden?Katie: So once you started talking to neighbors you start to kind of plot ideas? I feel like that's kind of a natural thing that happens just with people, is once you get to talking you start talking about what would be great in our neighborhood? And that conversations just kind of naturally evolves right like, probably pretty informally like the way that your conversations evolved.Bridget: Yeah I think so, like what would you want to do? Oh do we have this here?9:17 – 12:36Katie: So did you find that there are people who are really driven/motivated to get something created off the ground like ‘ok we'll do all the plans for the garden' and then there are the people who step in once it's there and say ‘yeah we're going to establish this and make it set'?Bridget: I don't know, there were some people who were interested in the beginning but they had some pretty… They were randomly enough when I went to community garden training there were two other people that I never met from Bellevue.Katie: Is that how you got started was just to go and learn how to do it?Bridget: That was one of my commitments, is I said I'm going to well I thought that I would get one I would interested helpful practice probably. And all the like powers that be were very supportive like the neighborhood association the people that were there at the time, had talked about it but they've never done it and I'm like I'm really going to do it, I've already signed up for the class. And they were like sure, go for it, you know we'll support it and you can do it under the neighborhood association umbrella.Katie: Had you gardened before?Bridget: Just in the backyard a little bit, I mean I still would say I'm not an expert gardener. Whatever, you plant seeds that grow, maybe they don't, and that's ok you just. You just keep going and that's what's great about it because the weather is unpredictable, the season is unpredictable. There's no guarantee that just because you did it well last year you could do the exact... You could think you're doing the exact same thing and it's not.Katie: I like that approach, I really like that because I think there's a lot of wisdom in that for people who want to do something that they don't know how to do and maybe think they'll never know how to do or be experts at, and for something like gardening that can be really intimidating. And what you're saying is that's ok even if it fails. The whole point isn't necessarily...Bridget: Well, and that would be my perspective on it and what I bring to the community garden. I think I was talking about how there were two people at that training who wanted to grow their own food. They had plans to make a community garden, they wanted to sustain their living, they wanted to plant enough food to last their... They wanted to eat off their land. But it wasn't going to be their land it was going to be some neighbor's property that as an empty lot. And we kind of parted ways because they were very serious about, like we will be producing enough food for ourselves and the difference between the lot they already thought they could use and some of the lots like empty some vacant property that we were looking at they were like “oh there's not enough room, not enough room” and I was like “not enough room for what?” But like my idea was not going out to produce enough food to support all of Bellevue.It was always going to be a community garden, a place to meet, a place to garden, a place to enjoy each other. And hopefully get some vegetables out of it. So meeting those people at first was exciting and then it was like this is a struggle, they were not interested in the community aspect of it.Katie: The community aspect of it is what.. And that's what you went to people with.. It wasn't do you want to grow vegetables it was do you want to be part of a community that is growing vegetables?Bridget: Right. Yeah like bring your kids, it won't matter, we won't care. No hard core rules no you know some of the strict regulations.12:37 – 15:18Katie: That's the key. So then how did the potluck evolve?Bridget: There was ourselves and another family, the Salzmans, who I guess we just decided we should try it. There wasn't a whole lot of planning involved other than like we all do it once a month, we'll have it at the city building and that's it. And we don't know what will happen, I think it was just mainly them and just saying like well it might just be the four of us - and kids who show up and we'll just see what happens from there.Katie: And so during this time, you guys are starting to shake a little bit of your patterns about how you live in your neighborhood, can you talk about some of those smaller micro-things that you've done to build community and ways that you've also met neighbors. Because you know it helps to have that form of communication where it's not just a flier going out. What were the ways you got to kind of know more neighbors so you could make those invites?Bridget: I think a lot of it was, one the coffee shop became much more of a hub. So there were people coming and going and just running into people and saying hello. There were programs that our kids did, like there was a basketball program with young kids and we walked around, I think we went around to a few different people and talked to them about, ‘hey would you come? You'd be welcome.” There was a neighborhood group started on Facebook too.Katie: And I love that you guys do stuff in your front yard too.Bridget: Yeah we usually have our fire pit out there, so we'll sit out there. Halloween we sit out there with a fire and hot dogs or just anytime and there's quite a few kids in our neighborhood especially at this point, that just kind of wander around, hang out looking for stuff to do. So if we're doing that they can come and hang out and sometimes their parents come with them. Sometimes it's a formal ‘hey we're having a fire pit who wants to come?'Katie: And the same spirit happens at the garden. Right where people just kind of walk by and they see it so that's an invitation?Bridget: Yeah and I have gone to the school and done, like with the after school program, pretty much since the beginning brought a group weekly or however often works in their schedule. So there were a lot of kids then that I got to know who I would meet their parents somewhere in the grocery or wherever and be like ‘oh hi I know you' and then they'd have to explain who is this lady? And then there is stuff like when people walk by, still like ten years later like ‘What is this? We have a community garden?' And the community garden was communal, that was the other thing that we did, it's not as if you pay a membership due and get so much property or square foot bed, it's just everybody gardening together, so that if somebody is to come once, they don't have to wait until next year to get their bed or whatever. They come and they can do whatever we're doing, like everybody works on it together, same thing with kids and everything.15:19 – 16:44Katie: So I mean taking it back to when you guys were first looking at Bellevue and saying this is not a place where we can build community to today it just seems like...Bridget: I don't think we thought that we couldn't build it but we just hadn't.Katie: Yeah or I guess..Bridget: We just didn't know what community was, like to sit back and be like ‘oh yeah when we grew up we could talk to all these neighbors and we did run.. Like I did run around with my neighbor friends, there were five or six kids I was allowed to go around the block... I just think we as adults had not even attempted. Like we were just the people coming in and out our front door, parking, getting out and going out to work, coming home and staying home or going out somewhere else. And we just had that shift of well what is going on here in Bellevue?We should be a part of this. If this is where we are going to live, let's live here. It shifted from work and people we know from work or old college friends that we're going to go visit and see to shifting to like well who are our neighbors? You know maybe we thought that the neighborhood itself wasn't very welcoming like when I look back nobody welcomed us what the heck. But we've been here long enough we are the people who have lived here, we should be the “welcomers” so I think we just kind of recognized our own role. If we want our community to look a certain way we've got to do it. We can't wait and think well nobody else did that, so I guess it doesn't exist.Katie: That's just not part of our neighborhood.Bridget: It's just not a thing.16:45 – 18:41Katie: And that's also something that you almost don't want to impose on people its like ‘well nobody else is doing that here so maybe that means people don't want it and if we tried we'd be imposing' or we'd be asking people too much. But I'm wondering too is there something to the rhythm of the garden and the potluck that has allowed for this to take shape?Bridget: I don't know I wanted to make a community garden. I think that as far as where is your energy best, where gives you energy, what makes you happy is a big factor. So if it's going to make you miserable to garden then you're probably not going to be the person that starts the community garden. Like you might help with some aspect of it but going to the garden overall is a fun time for me, I enjoy it, it makes me happy. I love when new people come I love when old people show up versus trying to do something just because I think it's a good thing to do, if that makes sense. There's definitely been times and roles that I have taken on because ‘oh wouldn't you, would you be willing to do this for us, you'd be really great at that' ..Ok, I can do that, you know I'll commit to that role… and then realizing this is killing me.. Like this just makes me miserable, why would I say I'd do this and now I say I've done it so I'll do it but I've got to step out quickly. And I think that's more like there are plenty of ways to build community and plenty of things that you can do, I think it's just making sure you're enjoying them. And then it's also possible to make sure you're enjoying them with the right people. You know some of those..Katie: Keeping an eye out for who is going to be in the same.. Who has the same motivations as you.Bridget: Versus being like, oh if you're willing. You know sometimes you agree just to have help, to have anyone on board to do something but if its... You know what you want and you're going the wrong direction you might be really disappointed.18:42 – 21:04Katie: You can be discerning when you build community and it doesn't mean you're not a good neighbor.Bridget: Yeah, I think the other things we've done like the potluck we were very conscious of doing things that are simple, keeping it simple, don't make it complicated, don't promise gourmet meals. We have never said that we are going to... You know the tables will be set up by 5:30 and we will have brought the main dish, anything like that. It's kind of, the more people come the more comfortable they are, like “oh it starts at five o'clock and that means we just get here at five o'clock and we start setting tables up and chairs and arranging the room it doesn't mean at five o'clock dinner is served and you've walked into like a dinner party with tablecloths. It's very laid back, we make sure there are plates which actually on Sunday we ran out but oh well. People figured it out, they reused some, ate off the cake plates.Katie: Yeah, that's the part that stresses me out about potluck, when I hear it and I think of hosting it I think I have to bring the main dish, I have to be the one to set up everything and you figured out a way to make that low key.Bridget: You just kind of set it up with the expectation of 1) there's not really a host, like Ryan will put it on the Facebook group and he'll set the events, it's every fourth Sunday and that's kind of done for the year actually. Between a few of us we throw in paper plates and forks every once in a while, so yeah and just kind of knowing we could have put the bar really high from the beginning but I think at that point we were aware enough to know that that would wear us down. We wanted to make sure it would be nothing any of us dreaded going to and that's not going to keep it going.Katie: Yeah, and how could you ever go on vacation or have a missed week?Bridget: Yeah and if we're not there what do you do? You know luckily there's not a key, the way Bellevue works is we just call the police and they have a key to the building and they let us in. Now anybody, the early birds know that. So if we're not the first one there the other first person knows ‘oh I just call this number and they'll come and let us in and we can get the tables out and start moving things around.' I mean that all took time you know, but I think just to be cautious or thoughtful about if it's something that you want to do for a long time, what is it that you enjoy doing and it won't drain you over the long-haul?21:05 – 23:13Katie: And how often do you go to the garden? How often are you..Bridget: In the season I'll go twice a week.Katie: Ok, and are you going at a set time when everyone else is coming too?Bridget: Yes, Wednesdays 6:30, Sunday at 9:30.Katie: So you have set hours?Bridget: Those are the established.. They kind of shift from year to year but usually it's like Wednesday night and Sunday morning.Katie: Ok. How many people would you say are showing up to these different things, does that even matter? How important is that to you?Bridget: It's great when there is a crowd. There's probably like 30-40 people plus kids, and then some kids at the potluck.Katie: Starting out it was just you and the Salzmans right?Bridget: Well a couple more people came and even then obviously in the time that we've been doing them, who shows up and who is still showing up has changed. The same thing with the garden, some people who were really helpful and got us you know came and did some hard work at the beginning, you know one couple's moved out of Bellevue another one is still semi-involved, actually a couple of people have moved out.. You know so some people who were involved are gone. And now it's a different wave of people almost. And then there's people that for some of those people that were a part of the community garden they never came to a potluck, that wasn't their scene. We even though it is kind of close.. Bellevue is pretty small, so you could be conscious of — ‘oh they've never shown up once' but it's not their thing. So I think to just keep that.. Because when you first.. When things first get started and they're sort of in that fragile state of beginning, it is sort of fragile right and you think ‘oh how come they aren't coming to the garden, I thought they'd help and they've never shown up.' And you can take it personally but then again another part of living in a neighborhood for your life is expecting you to live by these same people. So if you want to hold a grudge about the fact they said they'd show up and they didn't you probably aren't going to be great neighbors, you know like this is a lifetime of living so let's not hold a grudge about the time they said they'd show up or why didn't they and all that kind of stuff. Because that's not necessarily going to help build community either.23:14 – 24:18Katie: One of the things that I'm wondering now is if it is a new neighbor and they want to get involved in the garden, do they contact you? If they do want to come to the potluck is there a main person there to kind of coordinate things or..Bridget: I think the Facebook group is a pretty big communication device for everyone, and that shows the times and then if somebody asks a question then the person tags my name or somebody else in there and say “hey they want to know about this” or you know I think Facebook is a big driver as far as communication that I've had and then it might be a personal message or text from somebody whose met, you know maybe they live next door to somebody who had that question and they say ‘oh here's her phone number or I'll text her or email her.'Katie: So you are the main contact for a lot of these questions for the garden?Bridget: I mean for the garden I am, I don't know that anybody really reaches out for the potluck as much as they would just show up and be like ‘what is this, who should I talk to?' And then people would probably point out a few different people to talk to there.24:19 - 26:40Katie: So when people talk to you I guess they see you as a coordinator of the garden especially, and they come to you and they have a brand new idea for the garden or they want to implement something, being in that role as the main contact how do you deal with that how do you respond?Bridget: Usually it's that sounds great, you can do it. Just recently we had a big, one of our neighbors was part of Crossroads and she was leading a go global effort in Bellevue and she wanted to do it at the community garden and she was like, “I've got some ideas” and I was like “I'd love to hear them” and they wanted to put in a pergola and a grill. The grill didn't happen but the pergola is up and it was like that would be amazing, that would be great, and they did it. There have been many suggestions like at the potluck we should use silverware, all this plastic and I was like, “I hear ya I bring my own.” My answer to that is me and my family, we have the dishes we come here with and we take them home.Katie: So you bring your own set of dishes and silverware?Bridget: I do.Katie: Oh that's smart.Bridget: But I provide the paper ones as well, but one of the people who comes says we should really.. Or shouldn't we all.. We should just have silverware here and I'm like, “if you want to bring it and take it home and wash it I would love it.” But I am also making it clear that I'm not volunteering to do that.Katie: To clean everybody's dishes.Bridget: I am taking home these five plates and these five forks because I would really probably resent everyone as I washed their dirty dishes.Katie: Oh my gosh yeah.Bridget: But I would love it if somebody really was motivated and was like I'm going to do this, this is my thing I'm going to do every month, I would totally support that.Katie: Yeah it goes back to do what you want other people to do, sort of be the change by living it. I think people forget what an individual looks like versus what an organization looks like. It's like an organization who runs a potluck would probably take that and implement a new system of dishwashing because they could but an individual or a family..Bridget: Or organize like it's your month. Like could you imagine the rotating..Katie: No.Bridget: Who knows.. Who knows what any organization would do.Katie: But that's the slipery slope of it getting really entangled and emmeshed in this sort of process, agenda, structure that ends up killing the spirit of it.26:41 – 34:21Katie: Now when you look at your neighborhood, Bellevue, what does community look like? What would be like a key image?Bridget: There's a few that come to mind, like one is the ability for my... like Patrick who is old enough and friends live with he just walks around and finds friends. Like that's a pretty great image for me, like that's kind of his classic line at this point is “I'm going to go out and find some friends, I'll be back.” That's a pretty big deal for your kids to be able to go out and find some friends to play with. I don't know there's a lot of images, you know we just had the memorial day parade and we weren't in the parade but knew.. Waving at all the groups that were walking by, how many people we knew or as people go to sit down or as we go to sit down talking to so many of the people that are around that's pretty great.. That's a big day for Bellevue I feel like Memorial day parade but pretty great.Katie: Do you ever feel the need to go back in time to this hidden life in pulling in from work and going in the house and not talking to any of your neighbors, is there ever a time when you not regret but wish you could be more under cover in your neighborhood?Bridget: I don't think so, no, like I said I think there is the things you learn about being in community and being around your neighbors of knowing how far to take of personal feelings right, “oh you hurt my feelings.” And kind of working.. Being aware of who you are and why that hurt your feelings, like don't hold onto that forever because I could find a way to probably be upset with a lot of people if I wanted to, right? Like we could find hurts everywhere or slight grievances whether they're real or not, whole other story, but if I wanted to take that as a personal afront to what they said or not showing up..Katie: Or even just differences in political opinions.Bridget: That would be a big one right now. Like stuff like that, Facebook profile what somebody said on Facebook or on the group page you know, like how much do you engage in those conversations that people get started. So no I don't, at the same time there's been moments of struggle where you have to sit down and say “ok this is what community is about, it is about you can be this person and we can still talk about our kids being friends even though we have the.. We are not alike in a lot of ways.Katie: That part of it is what I think is the most magical. Is when you can actually get to a place where you can be common with people who you are so different from and you can feel connected and familiar with them even though you might never have chosen them but they're your neighbor. It's kind of like family but in a different way.Bridget: It is, and it's not to.. You know to paint this picture there are plenty of people who don't want to know me. It's not as if the whole neighborhood is all sharing.. You know there are those people who think a community garden is a waste of space, that's fine. There were people when we first started who thought we were taking away a place for kids to play, we can win them over or just ignore them. You know they'll either be won over all with time, I mean its not our intent, it's not as if we're hiding some intention other than.. I don't know if some people are suspicious like “why are you doing this” “what's your end goal?” And I think they're have been some people who have asked me that and I was like “um what do you mean? End goal? We're going to get to know each other isn't that enough?” But that's not enough some people just don't.. I don't know people have suspicious nature sometimes, sometimes they don't understand that you can just be doing it. I don't know how many times Tim has been asked if he is going to run for mayor. He's not.. Or city council.. Like are you running for something. Some people thought I worked at the school, “well you're a teacher there right?” “no, no I just live in Bellevue.” But like people's concepts of why people do things, you know it's your job to do them versus no this is just what I do for fun. This is my hobby.Katie: Yeah and it.. I think the intrastent motivation behind why you're doing something or if you were trying to get something out of it even if it wasn't this is my job or I'm trying to run for city council, if it was something less tangible than that like “I want to do this so I am.. So that people like me so I'm a good neighbor.. I'm going to do this so everyone thanks me and loves me for this garden at the end of it I'm going to be well renowned” so even that gets you in trouble because there are people that say, “you took away my this this or this” by doing it, you can't make everybody happy, you can't win everybody over so your motivation has to be pretty.. I would even think it gets whittled down to being just a pure motivation of “the only reason I would do this is because I love it and I want to be with the community. The community doesn't have to all of it but if some people do and we can enjoy it together than that's enough. I can see though where that would be really hurtful to be like “but wait a minute, wait I'm not trying to hurt anyone why is this being misconstrued?”Bridget: Why, why would you mock my garden? What do you think this is? But yeah. So you know that's one of the learning, take your toys and go home or stick it out and see what happens, see who comes around, all things with time. Sometimes its hard at this point to be like “wow it's been ten years” ten years of growing and what did it look like then, what were the struggles when we started versus what are they now? You know, I think overall the struggles now.. There's not really.. We kind of went over some of the hurdles and now it's just like I don't stress about it a lot. You know if people's expectations when they come to the potluck are let down because there wasn't a greeter at the door or there wasn't assigned seats, or whatever they had in their mind when they come in the door they may come and be disappointed because it wasn't organized enough and they really think it should be organized. And they probably don't come back and that's too bad I wish they would but at the same time this is maybe not where their energy is fulfilling, like they would be really stressed out by our lack of..Katie: So loose structure just kind of lends itself to anybody being able to fit in at the same time..Bridget: But there are people who come to the potluck who do not always bring a dish for whatever reason, they don't cook maybe they can't afford the meal, nobodies checking at the door. We can all show up differently and bring a different gift and that ties pretty directly to our work right and all that we have done. Not everybody.. The stricter the ways are the more exacting and perfect you have to be. At the community garden it would be really hard for groups of kids to show up at our community garden if you can't touch this and you can't touch that and if you step there.. I knew I wasn't going to organize.. I wasn't going to manage ten plots and ten people's opinions on how each plot should look. I was like heck no. That's one of the things garden managers.. Community garden managers do.34:22 – 36:18Katie: Ok so it has a lot of your spirit in it and whatever community effort is built has the person who starts it spirits in it. So let's take it back to Starfire's work real quick. Where is this type of community building that you do in your own life where does that show up in your work at Starfire and how is it influencing your work with disabilities one on one, do you think you'd be able to do some type of job if you weren't doing this at home?Bridget: Yeah, I think I could. I can definitely.. I know I believe in the community building work. I know it, I've seen it I've lived it in my own live and seen how if we had not changed or shifted what we were doing around our own neighborhood I don't know what our kids would be doing. Because of how we've shifted and lived I know that there is a lot of good things a lot of potential out here for communities to build up around. So I think that helps motivate the work but I think I could do it even if I hadn't. I wouldn't quite understand all the ins and outs I wouldn't have had the experiences to understand or think through some of the things but some have probably played off each other too.Katie: So your work at Starfire has kind of informed your role in your neighborhood and vice versa?Bridget: I would say it has.Katie: Yeah, how could it not.Bridget: I don't know how it wouldn't have at this point but I'm sure they've definitely influenced each other.Katie: That's the work life blend I think that was talked about at the beginning of this change at Starfire. It's not that we have to take our work home and do our work at home it just means that our work is actually is a way of life and we do it everywhere. We do it at our work but we don't clock out and go home and be sucky neighbors because it kind of just influences the way you live everywhere.36:19 – 38:14Katie: Why do you think it's important for you to do this work in people with disabilities lives?Bridget: Well I think the.. What I've seen in our own world and I think with some of the people that have started projects as families too is that it kind of spurs on the next thing. So by starting something it kind of opens another door, it's a ripple effect of all of it. So I think that is somebody starts something in their neighborhood and then you know you don't necessarily have to do it all, there will be other people who are motivated to something else then maybe you just show up to support them or tell them they did a great job later on. It's not you for everything, but I definitely think for more people to know each other is good for everyone, for sure.Katie: So what is your hope for the next ten years, in the next ten years, let's say ten years from now what is your hope for Bellevue?Bridget: I think that's pretty hard because I think Bellevue is pretty great right now it doesn't need to change anymore, but I'm sure there will be change in ten years and hopefully it will all be good change. My hope is that it is just a welcoming happy community for everyone and continues to be that and in ten years my sons will then be young adults will want to be there too. That this is a place where they want to be and feel as strongly connected to as they do now.Katie: And maybe carry through with some of the work that you guys have set?Bridget: Maybe I can't imagine.. In their own way they'll be doing something else. I have no doubt they'll be doing something.Katie: Maybe they'll run for mayor. One of them will run for mayor.Bridget: No, well maybe who knows. We'll see.Katie: Alright well thank you, I appreciate it.Bridget: Thank you Katie.

Scott: One of Kyle's big interests is birds. So what we did was created a birding weekend, and invited a bunch of guests who were connected with the Audubon Society, Cincinnati chapter, Cincinnati Bird Club. People along that line those who share the same interest in birding as Kyle does.Katie: Yeah and this interest in birding is more than just - I like to be outside and in the woods, right? Tell me about that interest that Kyle has and what that looks like.Tammi: When Kyle was born we had two acres in the woods and my husband is the biggest Audubon-nut known to man. And we had every bird in our yard. So Scott had all these CDs from Audubon and from Cornell University of bird calls.Tammi: What we didn't realize is Kyle's gift is audio memory and at age 2, age 3 he was putting those CDs in our old stereo and memorizing, we didn't realize, he was memorizing all those bird calls by track. We're thinking three hundred, four hundred, or five hundred bird calls he has memorized, and he still knows them to age 20. Katie: That is incredible, I didn't realize that it was something that started that young. So when you chose what to do, you were thinking around Kyle's interests. Why were you looking at Kyle's interest in particular?Scott: Well we want to get him integrated, involved in the community - trying to link him up with like-minded people. People with the same interests, shared interests.Katie: So let's unpack how you came up with the idea to eventually have a retreat, what was your initial concept around what you would do?Tammi: My initial thought was a running event, Kyle ran cross country in eight grade and he wants to run again. But Scott and I don't run long distance. So I thought I thought we would set some kind of annual running event. And that was mom, all on my own, in my own head, I get caught in my head.Katie: What do you mean by that? Why was it like being caught?Tammi: When we came to Starfire and started learning different strategies. Taking people to lunch, taking other runners, birders, artists, taking even neighbors, just taking people to lunch and pick their brains, I just call it getting out of my own head.Scott: Yeah the cool thing about some of this was when we first started thinking about this we thought well we can do this, we can do this with no input from anybody else you know we'll come up with the idea and then we can help execute. And then talking to a particular person at Starfire we were told to just talk to people, see what they think and let them kind of run with the program. Don't plan everything for yourself, this is not about you, this is about Kyle integrating into the community. Don't even make the event about him, just make an event of which he is an equal part of and let people volunteer and get the buy in from that.Katie: How important do you think those coffees were and those plannings were over time?Tammi: They were critical.Scott: Critical that's the word I was thinking too.Tammi: It was fun and it was critical to get everyone's feedback and to brainstorm with others. The synergy of getting all our ideas together.Scott: Yeah, simple conversations and getting buy-in, otherwise you're going in cold asking people to do something when they don't even know who you are. It just, you have to.Tammi: And we took a few birders to lunch and they said, well why don't we rent a cabin out in rural Adams County and go birding? And that had never crossed our minds. Scott: And then all the pieces, well what would we need to do for this and this and and it just kind of fell in place in some ways. It still look a lot of planning.Katie: And did it fall in place because the people who helped come up with the idea were helping with some of the logistics and thinking through what to do?Scott: Yeah.Katie: Some shared ownership there, and that's kind of what you were saying that you might get caught in your head, that the original idea didn't have anyone else owning it and so that's the shift where some other people being part of this and feeling just as passionately is what drives the whole ship.Tammi: Absolutely.Katie: And then so everybody who participated in the planning of it how did you work with their schedules to make sure they were involved?Scott: Our event was more of a regional draw, it's not people who live on our street. So our meetings were one on one, they were through email, phone calls things like that. It wasn't like a collective group of people meeting all the time. Turned out there was a bigger interest than we really kind of expected so we had to kind of pull back on it because the place we were getting for the weekend wasn't large enough to hold everybody. So their enthusiasm made things so much easier. The worse thing you can do is throw a party and nobody shows up.Katie: That's really neat. And what was Kyle's role in the project planning itself?Tammi: Excellent question.Scott: I won't say Kyle initiated any of the plans himself, what we would do is we would always ask Kyle if he wanted to do this, get his sign-off essentially.Tammi: Is it ok to have a sleepover with ten people in a cabin? And he would give us a thumbs up or thumbs down. He would come on all the lunches with us or the coffees we would have with people.Katie: Once you came up with this idea together and you landed on your theme, you came up with what you were going to do, you probably set a date, picked a location, were there any other things logistically that you really had to work through that were big parts of this?Tammi: We had to watch the weather, and it rained, which actually turned out to be a good thing because the birds like the rain.Scott: Yeah, it was migration season for the warblers, it was in May, so a nice spring rain kept them calm and singing.Tammi: Picking trails that were accessible and worthy of seeing lots of birds. Picking a trail that was near a lunch picnic shelter, because we provided lunch.Katie: Did anything come up during the process where you felt like, oh no this is never going to work?Tammi: Oh big time.Scott: YesKatie: Can you name a couple of those?Scott: Well, we had a spot all picked out, it was an hour and a half east of the city of Cincinnati, and was it a week or two before? They said, there's — I'll just call it an environmental issue. They had some wild animals on the premises, and we cannot have you come to this. Katie: What type of wild animals?Scott: Feral hogs.Katie: Oh of courseScott: Feral hogs were loose on the property and we need to trap them and we can't have humans at the facility because it'll spook the feral hogs. So we had to scramble, Tammi actually did, scrambled and found a place that we then rented for the weekend.Katie: That must have been just.. How did that feel, gut wrenching?Scott: (Laughter)Tammi: Gut-wrenching except that the rental I think turned out to be a better option for us.Katie: So it was a good thing, hogs feral hogs who would've thought can actually be the best part of your project?Scott: Yeah and then we walked into the place we rented and the first thing we see is the mounted head of a hog on the wall, and I was like, this is perfect, it was meant to be.Katie: So take me to the day of the birding event. It sounds like a lot of the planning happened with you all and you were the connection but maybe having everyone in the room at once was kind of an exciting thing. Where everybody's like, now we're all here. Tell me about the day, how did it feel?Tammi: It was May and it was rainy and we all met at a trail head and that's how we got our day started with a hike.Scott: And we turned the hike procedures and all that over to one of the birders, who was familiar with the trail. So they led the hike and we just participated like everybody else.Tammi: It was exciting, everyone showed up.Scott: Everyone showed up.Tammi: We had 17 on the hike and I think 14 came back to the cabin for dinner. That was exciting to finally get inside and out of the rain. We had a lot of fun stories to tell. And then ten people, that's the limit on the cabin for spending the night, so we had ten conversations to midnight.And what Scott and I noticed too, Kyle being such a (I don't want to say expert) but the audio memory, he can hold his own in that group of experts.Katie: Were they impressed by the level of knowledge that he has?Tammi: Absolutely.Katie: After all this your goal to help Kyle get more integrated into the community, and also as a family to connect more socially with people who share the birding interest, what has happened since? What is a result of this project that you want to share?Scott: During that weekend one of the activities we did was we had a little contest where we would play a bird call and the avid birders had to identify what the bird was. We had fifteen birds and Kyle ended up winning the competition. It was pretty cool in and of itself. Then a few months later there was a bird outing, and the person that was leading the birding walk - we had never met. And when we introduced ourselves to him he said,“Oh Kyle I've heard about you, you're the one who knows all the bird calls.” So we decided to take him to lunch just to make the connection with him. Over lunch he said he would like to do that, he heard about the birding weekend, he actually knew of the place we went and said that was one of his favorite places to go birding ever. And he would like to do that same weekend if we'd be interested in doing it with he and his buddies. So great yeah, we'll do that. And then at lunch he decided I have about an hour, I'm going to go birding, Kyle would you like to join me? So we all went birding and it was kind of interesting because Josh kind of took Kyle. And they went birding and Tammi and I were kind of behind them watching it was pretty cool because it all came out of the birding weekend. It was that connection, he knew about the weekend, he knew about Kyle's skills, he knew of where we went birding, it was just this perfect puzzle that was put together.Katie: And you didn't even have to put that out there?Scott: He did it all. It was his idea, and it's his guest list, so we're connecting Kyle to a whole other group of people he didn't know before.Katie: That's incredible, thank you guys anything else you want to say?Tammi: Well, I was going to say, I felt as the non-birder, you know the big let down after the big weekend… Birders all go away for the summer and I thought, oh my gosh we did all of this and there's no connection. And then a month later they go on that hike and then — there's Josh.Katie: Pretty awesome.Tammi: It was awesome.

TRANSCRIPTION 0:00 – 1:00Mieke: You're never ready. There are some things you just can't predict everything. You can't know the end from the beginning. You just have to trust that it's ok to not know what you're doing and get started at the same time.Katie: What if there were a bigger story than disability? You're listening to More conversations at the center of the movement to build connection and belonging in an age of isolation. Ever felt stuck? Or like you don't know where to begin? This conversation with Mieke will help you conquer some of your own doubts around just getting started. Mieke is part of Starfire's initiative to put families at the center of community building, this means she was granted a small stipend and offered a mentor from Starfire to help nudge and uncover her families own wisdom around building community. So she'll address some of her own struggles of getting started with this family project in her neighborhood. Like expanding her concept of who her neighbors might be.1:01 – 1:58Katie: And her epiphany about how to bring her four kids passions together in one project. She'll also talk about how she leveraged some of her weak ties or people she already knows to help with the project. And some of the tools you might need to get started. If you listen to the podcast with David Shu you'll recognize the quote at the end by T.S. Eliot “For us there is only the trying the rest is not our business.” So let's get into the conversation. Alright do you want to introduce yourself?Mieke: My name's Mieke and I have been passionate about community building pretty much since forever. I was the kid who was the bridge between friend groups in elementary school, I got voted most outgoing in my high school class of 307 people and I have just always been about bringing different groups of people to the same table.1:59 – 3:12Katie: Yeah, and that's very true. I know you personally as well and I know that that's been my experience with you. So your high school classmates - they had it right. So one of the questions that comes up a lot about community building and trying to do a creative project in your neighborhood is that starting is the hardest part and for somebody like yourself, it sounds like you're more outgoing, so help people who might not be as outgoing, also bring them along in this podcast, so they can get a deeper understanding of what ittakes. Because I don't think this is just for people who are outgoing, do you?Mieke: No, definitely not.Katie: Ok, take us back to when you first started your project with Starfire what were some of your first steps?Mieke: The hardest thing about getting started for me was that I didn't feel like I was owned by any particular geographic neighborhood. I feel like I belong to Cincinnati, and I wasn't sure how to narrow that down.Katie: So your project really started around that problem that this is supposed to be a way to activate my neighbors, but what you kind of had to come around to or learn was that community could be a community of interest, is that right?3:13 – 4:09Mieke: That's exactly right. So that was my first struggle and I struggled with that for like five or six months. We walked our neighborhood, we looked around and we looked at the community bulletin boards and looked at the rec center and met people and I just still did not feel like that was what we wanted to do.Katie: And you had said that was a neighborhood you had newly moved to?Mieke: Yeah, and so just kind of first problem expanding my concept of who my neighbors are and realizing that it's ok to do a project on a community of interests rather than a geographic community.Katie: So once you landed on that how did you come up with that community of interests?Mieke: The next big problem that I had was that I was very involved in a lot of this community work in Cincinnati but I was doing it without my kids.Katie: And you have how many kids?Mieke: I have four kids.4:10 – 5:12Mieke: From 10-17 and they all have very strong opinions and a lot of varied interests.Katie: Ok, so each child had their own thing going on?Mieke: Yeah, a lot of our time is spent going in different directions. And so I would say another big hurdle I had to jump over was how do I bring it all in guys, coach mom at the helm here trying to figure out what we're going to do as a family and how we are going to combine all the things that everybody, exploring everybody's interests and bringing everybody back to the table together. So that each kid can feel some ownership of our project.Katie: Yeah, I think it's really interesting as a parent to do that because you do, you end up, well this child likes ballet and this child likes soccer, this child likes crafts and this child likes theater. So you end up doing things very separately and in their own age group. So then to bring it all back together and say we are going to do something as a family, was that more effort in the long run to have everybody come together or was it more efficient with your time?5:13 – 6:29Mieke: I would say having a central focus point for what we are going to do with our project did end up bringing the kids all together which did make it somewhat more efficient. But the fascinating part to me was that the project that we picked had so many different tasks. We had a master tasks list and each of the tasks built on each kid's strengths. One kid could really care less about art in some ways but he took on the role of you know I'll walk the stuff over to the venue and I'll walk my youngest brother over to the venue and I'll help by transporting things and carry things. Which was really helpful because I don't have a staff I don't have administrators, or secretaries or anything you know, I could use about five. And you know another kid is very creative but very picky so I said well you can do all the décor and you cann design the space and she was ecstatic about that, that's in her wheel house. I guess what I'm trying to say is the project ended up having lots of little tasks that played to each kid's strengths which brought them all around the table in a way that I did not expect.6:30 – 7:29Katie: Yeah, and I love the idea of having really intentional invitations for your children to participate but also anyone who is getting involved from the community, you have that mind set of: ok where are they going to thrive and how is this going to feel energizing for them so it's not a chore? And definitely coming from a mother/parent asking your kid to do something often sounds like a chore but you found a way to make it this fun thing that they did together. So tell me a little bit more about your project, what exactly you guys ended up landing on.Mieke: I had been meeting with my mentor for this entire time at a café in our neighborhood and it turned out that being at that café every month ended up being the open door for my daughter to get a job there. So then my daughter started working there and we became friends with the owners, and made community for ourselves in this space and then one day our mentor said why don't you hold an event at this café? You're friends with the owners already, they're open to doing cool stuff in their neighborhood.7:30 – 8:29Mieke: So we ended up saying what can we do that is a community event that gives back some kind of creativity opportunity to the kids in the neighborhood, our friends, the people that we know. We wanted to do an event that had mindfulness, art, music and food. And we ended up inviting some artists, we invited the pop-art truck, my friend Janet owns that.Katie: And you had not known Janet as a friend when you reached out to her right, because you guys had known each other as acquaintances and then you reached out, how did she take to that invitation?Mieke: Yeah, she was thrilled. She was super excited, I told her what my budget was she said she would make it work. At first with my mentor I was brainstorming, I could put out a call to artists, I could put out an ad and then it was like, stop, think. I already know people.Katie: So you had the pop-art truck, you had a woman from the Hive.Mieke: Yes, there's a woman whose an art teacher who made art journals with people, like these little made out of one sheet. Then my youngest son is also an artist, and he taught origami at this table and just him being able to you know use his gift of creativity to do the actual teaching which he thrives in. Having him have his own space you know, where he felt respected, was huge for him.8:30 – 9:29Katie: And he did awesome, at ten years old I was super impressed.Mieke: He was nine at the time.Katie: Ok, yeah not even in double digits and he mastered me in origami I could not do it.Mieke: He's pretty amazing at that.Katie: So do you think for people who are just getting started and they might not have the vast network that you already had, do you think one of the steps might be, who do I know who knows a lot of people and going out to find that super connector in their life who might be willing to reach out to their network?Mieke: Yes, I think that makes a lot of sense, because you are your own best resource.Katie: Yeah, and it seems like what we tend to do right now is I'm going to go online, I'm going to Google it and then you just don't have that personal connection to really start with.9:30 – 10:33Mieke: Right. And I think don't minimize the fact that no matter how young your kids are, they have ideas, so don't lose sight of your own household as a source for ideas. Even for somebody like me who already has so many connections, it's like, I have so many other things on my plate, this is for the benefit of you, the benefit of your family, the benefit of your community. There's nothing to feel guilty about or feel stressed about, it's a win win.Katie: Yeah, because we can definitely put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be the ideal of what we have in our minds.Mieke: Exactly.Katie: So how do you know when you're ready to jump in?Mieke: that's a great question. I think of it a lot of times as how do you know when you're ready to start a family? You're never ready, there's some things you can't predict everything and you can't know the end from the beginning. You just have to trust that it's ok to not know what you're doing and get started at the same time. Things will happen almost organically and dare I say magically.10:34 – 11:30Mieke: It just kind of happens and you don't have, there's so few things in life that you are actually are ready for before you do them, but you just do them anyway.Katie: What's the magic?Mieke: The magic is you already know people, you have a family, you have a community, you just haven't really stopped to think about it. But it's already in you. Literally you are the magic. You bring you to the table and everything else happens. You are the only tool you need.Katie: So it's that simple? You don't need some master chart that you hang up on a wall, it's within you?Mieke: 100%.Katie: Mieke that's too easy.Mieke: No I know, well let me just tell you a little secret. I did buy this big wall chart, it happened to have five rows and we have five people in our family and it had all the days of the week and it had all these little post it notes. I lost it.11:31 – 13:30Mieke: And then I replaced it, it arrived from Amazon and then I lost it. Basically there are no tools.Katie: Clearly it wasn't being used enough if you're able to lose it. Well I think that's really important because sometimes tools can get in the way of doing what is hard. And it's not to say that tools are bad or that they don't come in handy for some people but the point is that there is no magic thing that's going to get you on that track.Mieke: I mean I think everybody has all the tools that are needed just kind of built into being an adult in this world and you just keep putting one foot in front of another and you keep going down a path and it ends up being something so much more special than you set out to make it.Katie: Well let's end on this quote then, from T.S. Eliot “For us there is only the trying, the rest is not our business.”Mieke: It's good.Katie: What'd you think about that?Mieke: In more poetic terms it's a value that I live by, it's like I'm not responsible for the outcome, I can't make people love something that I do or participate in something that I am passionate about but I just keep going anyway. And yeah I think you just have to take the leap, trust that there's going to be a trampoline under there somewhere and that you're going to bounce back higher than where you started.Katie: Sounds like fun too. When you put it like that.Mieke: Super fun. I'm all about fun.Katie: Well thank you, I appreciate it.Learn more at starfirecincy.org/familyleadership

David T. Hsu is author of “Untethered: A Primer on Social Isolation” [ www.readuntethered.com ] and Head of Business Innovation at the Hollywood-based social impact agency Propper Daley. Trained as a political scientist, he leverages expertise in culture change and systems change to advise leaders across philanthropy, business, and entertainment. David previously worked in strategy and communications at NationBuilder, the software company that powers grassroots campaigns. Prior to that, he was visiting lecturer in international political economy at the University of Pennsylvania and supported antitrust investigations at the U.S. Department of Justice. David is an advisor for Encore.org's Generation to Generation campaign and created the citywide “anti-gala” Shared Plates for L.A. Kitchen. He holds a B.A. from Duke and Ph.D. from Princeton.Jack Pearpoint [ www.inclusion.com ] is an independent Canadian Publisher, management consultant and catalyst for Inclusion, Diversity, Teamwork and CHANGE! Jointly with his wife and partner, Lynda Kahn, Jack does organizational strategic planning, organizational and operational consultation, evaluation, jointly designed learning and practice events, all in support of people with disabilities and their families, to engage in positive change that honors the gifts and contributions of all. Earlier, Jack, his late wife Marsha Forest and John O'Brien, collaborated to create several person-centered planning approaches such as PATH, MAPS and Circles of Friends. These planning approaches are utilized in organizational strategic planning as well as more individual planning. The collaboration continues now with John and Lynda. Jack's forty years of organization experience include seven years in Africa implementing post-war reconstruction; sixteen years as President of Canada's oldest literacy organization, Frontier College; and nearly two decades as a full-time publisher and presenter. Lynda Kahn [ www.inclusion.com ] is a co-leader with Inclusion Press International, Toronto, working with individuals, families, organizations and governments interested in positive change. Her 40 years experience has taken her from institution to community settings, involving values-based person-centered planning as a means to facilitate individual and organizational change. She is passionate about leadership, change and personal engagement to realize a more just world where everyone's voice and gifts are welcome. Lynda, together with her partner and husband, Jack Pearpoint, works with individuals, families, organizations and governments interested in positive change through facilitating conversations, planning sessions and offering training workshops. She is a member of the board of the Marsha Forest Center on Inclusion, Family and Community. She served as the state of Rhode Island's Executive Director of the Division of Developmental Disabilities from 1996 to 2005, serving in the public sector for 24 years. Her work included assisting in the closure of the state's institution, The Ladd Center in 1993, collaborating on an individualized funding and budgeting approach for persons served by Rhode Island's Division of Developmental Disabilities, and serving as President of the National Association of State Directors of Developmental Disabilities Services (NASDDDS 2001-03), and on the Association's Board for 8 years. Jo Krippenstapel offers facilitation, consultation, and training focused on enhancing quality lives for individuals, more responsive organizations, and richer community life. She has worked as an independent consultant for over 25 years. She facilitates conversations among people served by human services, families, and staff in order to support teams of people to learn and take action together. She helps organizations engage in planning that strengthens capacity to identify and act on the vision and mission. Her life path has been strongly influenced by the experience of growing up as one of seven children, the oldest of whom has significant disabilities. The commitment of her parents to create a full life of participation and belonging for her brother continue to inspire her to this day. Jo has lived and worked in five states – offering her the opportunity to learn from and work many leaders in disability services. She now lives in Bellevue, Kentucky, near Cincinnati, Ohio where she works and is involved as a citizen in several community building efforts. Jo can be reached at JoKripp@cs.com.More about Starfire www.starfirecincy.org

These are real stories, told live, around the theme of “awakening.”Find the full transcript here: https://www.starfirecincy.org/cincibility/2019/4/25/carol-storyteller

These are real stories, told live, around the theme of “awakening.”Find the full transcript here: https://www.starfirecincy.org/cincibility/seanbarnes

These are real stories, told live, around the theme of “awakening.”Find the full transcript here: https://www.starfirecincy.org/cincibility/04-09-19/live-storytellers

TRANSCRIPT:Katie: Can you start us off and talk about what does safety get sold as in the service system today?Tim: They're selling us an idea of safety that nothing will ever happen to us. And what they're doing is they're trying to provide a cover for families and communities to say, “Great you've got it take care of it thank you.” We just kind of believe that there's a balance. That there are some services that can provide some degree of safety. But we just don't believe that that's the only form. And that's where we have the question of well, “Who's got my back? Who's making it more safe for me and with me?” And the thing we think about at Starfire it's a great quote is that safety comes from the presence of many capable, caring glances. We need to be in the presence of a bunch of people that know us and see us and love us. And that'sActually what keeps us safe it's not the locks on the doors it's not the security systems it's not the management requirements of the Medicaid system or the policies of the group home or the day program or the segregated farm that says they're going to do this that or the other. None of those things actually provide true safety.K: Yeah, I mean if we all wanted to live in the safety that people with disabilities have to live in, which is the safety of basically the State and policies, it would look like a military state. You know, it would look like people going, patrolling up and down the streets and us having to lock our doors at a certain time and all of us being sort of trapped in this really sterile, scheduled out environment and nobody would want that.T: It's always safer with more people.K: Yeah.T: So that's the design of Starfire's work that's intentional. That true safety comes from a form of love or a form of affection and care. It's a shared obligation, it's a reciprocal relationship. I look out for your best interest because I care about you. And you look out for mine because you care about me.K: So… in front of me is a book called christmas and purgatory and I'm going to read a quote. It says, “Some of mankind's most terrible mistakes have been committed under the spell of certain magic words or phrases.” This book is filled with graphic and disturbing pictures of an institution. I'm bringing this book into the conversation because it shows us the worst of mankind of what can happen when we follow the lure of ‘safety' over community.IMAGES FROM CHRISTMAS IN PURGATORYT: Well, the book Christmas in Purgatory has always been powerful to me because it is, as you put it, graphic. And it's also kinda interesting, at least from my perspective, some of the pictures rhyme with the pictures I see even today. In services for people and in the form of our services. It's not as bad, so that book shows people naked in rooms with dozens of other people without any kind of toileting or any kind of cleanliness. It's a really horrific kind of doral kind of essay on what was happening to thousands and millions of people with disabilities. But if you took just the form of it, people in rooms without much purpose, you'd largely see that very much alive today. The same pattern is still happening in day programs and workshops and group homes for people with disabilities. That's really, I think very dangerous because it's almost like it's repackaged, it's the same pattern but it's got some new color to it and then we buy it. We're giving them a version of the Christmas in purgatory support system which is here's some walls that will largely keep out the monsters that we're telling you that live outside of here but they're still sitting there in a room with each other doing nothing that leads them outside of those walls. We're not in the presence of these safe, caring, loving glances. We are at the real kind of mercy of the wardens of the institution, so to speak.K: So are you saying that we haven't designed anything really new out of the institution? We just kinda designed smaller, prettier institutions when we closed down places like Willowbrook?T: That's my perspective.K: It seems like the intentions are maybe better this time around.T: I think we are evolving. Like I do think that people are trying to recreate somewhat of a better mousetrap. It's just still a trap and now we're stepping into a space in time where our our laws are starting to say, ‘Well are these kinds of places the same as the institutions?' and people are largely saying, ‘Yeah, they are in function and in form.' So it doesn't matter the intention of whether or not, it's still based on a design and that design is still based on some assumptions that people with disabilities are a them, are a collective group of people. And that's a dangerous thing because then everybody's identity is lost. Most people with disabilities that I am aware of and hear about and talk to are in real danger of having no purpose as a citizen of their community. They are simply a client of nonprofits and governmental services and their entire purpose is lost to the world. And I think that's a big danger that I think Starfire raises and says: ‘What about this person's purpose? Why was this person born? And what's the role of the family in a community to discover that, and what's the role of the support system, service system to nurture that experience?'And I don't think that it's bad to have a collaboration between service system and families and community. It's for me, from my perspective, it's over weighted toward just the services system and then a person with a disability almost gets kind of sent to this place or places that are gonna serve them and if it's just to captivate them and keep them safe in our building, the shared purpose becomes clienthood. It becomes we all are in this building because we all have some sort of need that's been defined by our medical records or our doctor's evaluation. So volunteerism could be we discover purpose together as citizens and that's what would build that kind of safety net of relationships that well I look out for you because I care about your purpose and I care that your gift to the world would be missing if you weren't here.The biggest danger from my perspective is nobody's talking about this. We say “it's their choice to be segregated” and in that case let ourselves off the hook for even addressing the complexity of the issue. I think that's why Starfire's story is so powerful. It's just more honest. We're talking about the complexity of things versus selling everybody on the idea that we can solve all your problems.The most egregious examples I have of people with disabilities being in trouble is where there were very few people looking out for them. There was a woman who was being prostituted. She had $100,000 a year in services and the services couldn't stop her from being prostituted. Another person I know lit a cup in fire in his group home and spent two years in State Penitentiary. He again, had a big waiver, big bunch of money behind him that the service system and a bunch of nonprofits, including Starfire. Both these cases lined up and said we'll keep you safe. We had three people that I always kind of paired together that came to our dances and our outings. One young man's mother shot him up with morphine then shot herself up. She's still alive but she's in jail for the rest of her life and her son is dead. Another young woman would come to our dances and our outings and her mom laid her down in bed and shot her in the head and shot herself in the head and both of them are dead. Another mother stabbed her daughter who was autistic and then stabbed herself and set the house on fire. All three of those people came to our outings and our programs. They all participated in our dances. They all went bowling with us.And I'm sure it's more complicated than any of us know. But my question has always been did we fail them by not bringing in more people into that story? By telling them that our dances and outings were gonna answer all of their hopes and dreams and fears, did we take away the complexity and did we let ourselves off the hook for actually inviting in those capable glances that would have said, “Hey it seems like you're not doing so good, could I spend an afternoon with your daughter or could you and I take a walk and just talk about it?” How do we grow a safety net of relationships – versus services?K: A safety net that looks more like love? Outside of the service system, outside of a volunteer saying, “Let's go on an outing together and sort of not taking them as seriously as a true friend. When families can see that, ‘Hey my son or daughter is loved,' that creates safety.T: I think that if I fear being rejected, it's largely because I've had that experience before right? And we know that people with disabilities are rejected a lot of ways throughout their lives. So are their families and if we don't acknowledge that. Then we ask the question of how do we mitigate against that rejection? How do we build less rejection? That would be really good work but to simply say we're gonna protect you from ever having to worry about rejection doesn't actually get at the antidote to rejection. It just takes away the possibility of the hurt coming.K: Let's address the idea that people with disabilities often need support. Not every person with disabilities has the same needs or challenges but across the board there is a need for support that might look like a staff person, right? I think that what we're saying here is not to say that someday that the community will replace every need for the service system. Is that right?T: I don't want anyone to ever think that a friend is going to replace paid support or a friend's gonna replace family. However, we can't think the service system is the sole system of support. We have to believe that some people can learn ways to support each other outside of services. So for example, if someone needs a feeding tube, that might lay outside the technical expertise or even something that would be unsafe. We wouldn't want me to change someone's feeding tube, I could easily cause an infection or harm to that person. However, there are lot of things we could do together that don't require me changing a feeding tube. The problem is services own every aspect of a person's life. I always ask families, ‘Were you trained to have a kid with a disability or did they just fall into your lap?' They say we just learned. So family members are just citizens that learned the role of caregiver, so that means other citizens can learn. I just don't like discounting the possibility that citizens can learn these things. So services have to be more creative and individualized so they can consider each individual's design question. What is the design question that arises from this person's life? Or their purpose. How might we help support facilitate that is an individualized design question? They also have to assume that someone from the community should and could be in this person's life in a variety of different ways and the service workers have to own their own limitations.K: One of the last quotes here in the Christmas at Purgatory book says, “The greatest discovery of my generation is that human beings can alter their lives by altering their attitudes of mind.” I think that is a big part of what we're talking about. If we keep the same mindsets we're gonna continue to pump out the same story, which is an old story of people with disabilities.T: I think people can do what they want. If they want to recreate the outings or they want to recreate day programs. It's a free country, right? Nobody can stop them, and yeah there might be people that say that's a great idea for me or my family member. I mean those just aren't the people we're working with. We are working with people that say, “I thirst for a future and I believe in that future, and I'm willing to work with you.”K: How should people change their mindsets about safety? What is the sort of underlying thing you think that needs to just shift?T: I think they just have to start getting out there and meeting people. I think they have to start really believing that there are about thirty people out there that are going to be their future best friends that they haven't met yet. And the only way to meet them is to start meeting them, and then the only way to get them to be best friends is to start investing in those people. And then just believe in it and act like you believe it and sure enough it becomes true.K: Cool. Anything else?T: It's complicated isn't it?

TRANSCRIPT:Christopher: For me personally, and I may not have enough experience to see this clearly, but I am very, very drawn to doing things that people thought were impossible. And for many people we work with their families or themselves personally were told at a young age, ‘you'll never have a job.' ‘You'll never…' A big long list of ‘you'll never's.' That's what gets me out of bed in the morning.So this summer was rough for us. A lot of people lost jobs. Because it's their first job and you blow it on your first job. I remember being fired from the dairy corner down in Newtown.And a lot of times the people we are working with, they're adults that have not had a real job out in the community, that has nothing to do with disability, a typical job. Maybe real is a bad name.Everyone blows their first job. You got to learn. Its okay. What do you do? Do you never work again? No. lets get another job and regroup and like go at it again now that we learned something. Were going to be able to design a better role next time.Katie: Sometimes when you hear about employment with any marginalized group, it can create this deficit umbrella over them. “Oh, they're unemployed so that means that they're needy in some way.” So when you go to an employer, Chris, that narrative that this is a person who has a deficit, and they need you to give them a job to make their life better. How is that a different conversation through your work?C: That's a great question. The only reason we job hunt for people is because they have on their own said in some way, “I'm interested in that.” So we don't prescribe a job as a solution. If you take it slow, and build it with being known first, then it can really be actually the culmination of who you are. But when it's rushed and forced for an outcome, it can really backfire and have really long-term damage.So when we come to an employer we say, ‘Hey, were looking in the neighborhood for opportunities for Katie to work, what do you guys do?' And then I'll ask, ‘What are some of the things that you guys are struggling with? Or what are parts and times of the week that suck?' And then just offer solutions. It's as simple as that. And then you can think about what if one of the people we are job hunting for can be the person that provides that solution. And what would that look like. And then we introduce the person were thinking are maybe a fit there. But its based on, ‘Will this help your business? Are you willing to have a trail period? Or will you hire this person and we will reconvene in 30 days?'And talk about what's working what's not. What can we shift so it will work long-term. And small businesses, if the team is small enough, that is a really easy conversation. And they're really open to that kind of experimentation. They're not married to some org chart that they can't stray from. They are able to look at the things in between and see opportunities. And that's humbling to see business be like, ‘Okay, yeah lets try it.'I know personally, a job has changed my life for the better. Of who I am and what I am capable of doing. And I see that with the people we work with. Their personality changes in positive ways. They gain confidence and are more comfortable in their own skin. This is a normal thing and it's also shockingly happening with people who live with disabilities. We shouldn't be surprised by this. What is a job besides the money? It's people coming together around a common mission and devoting time and energy in order to get that thing done. And so I think people should be included in that kind of thing.

Full Transcript:Katie: So, what does it mean to spend a lifetime with people?Tim: There's a great metaphor from C.S. Lewis in his book “The Four Loves,” where he talks about the difference between approach and nearness, and he talks about this in the context of faith and being close to God. But I think it applies, the way he describes it he says,“I want you to imagine that you're on a path, and your path ends at a village, and the village has a warm bath and a cup of tea and all your friends are there, and there is a fire and you're in the mountains and you're on this path and it's cold and it's rainy and your coming to this cliff, and you're at the top of the cliff, and below you you can see the village where you are going, the baths and the tea and the friends. It's waiting for you. But there is no way to get to it, you're near it, you can see it, you can smell the smoke from the fire. But you can't fly and you can't climb down the cliff. The only way to get there is a five-mile loop that goes around the whole valley, and actually every step you take for a while is going to get you further from the village, but interestingly enough you're approaching your goal more than you were when you were near it.”The question really is about what's the goal. And what it means to get there. When I think about what does it mean, especially in our work in Starfire, to help people grow towards each other, it means more than just being near. The path is actually the thing we have to keep going along. We have to travel that. And time matters there it might take longer, it will take longer. We can't actually get closer unless we spend a lot of time together. Isn't that a great metaphor?K: It is.T: Its really helpful to meK: Yeah. Why do people have a hard time committing to a long-haul?T: Well I'm really interested these days in what happens if we don't have to commit to it but we just continue travel together. Because, time is just really interested in that, if we go 30 years in the future, and we say we've been best friends, or we've been married, or we've been great neighbors. We'd look back and say, what kinds of things did we do to keep that alive. It was things like forgive each other, and grow separately but come back together, and bring new people in to introduce and celebrate together. We'd have to do all these things that probably require us to be uncomfortable. But when we are in the future looking back, its easy to say: “Oh yeah that's how it happened,” but it's hard for us to see it that way. That's why time matters so much, is that it's the passing of time that allows all of that stuff to happen.K: Sometimes more time does not equal quality time. So with Starfire we have actually started working less with people, we spend less time with people. And we out in more quality during the week more than maybe we did with the day program days.T: It was just a way we thought about peoples lives and our purpose. Our whole purpose was to almost fill time, and now it is to invest it in that future story, that future goal. We have just come to understand that the time that we have with people with disabilities is sacred. It represents their life. And we spend a few hours a week building that life. A connected, vibrant, life with lots of friends who care about me.K: So you're saying that the goal you have in mind can determine the way you spend your time. And the goal that we have is different than keeping people safe and happy now it's a full rich life.T: Yeah, its some what of an understanding, and it's something to own up to. We didn't actually imagine the same kind of lives for people with disabilities than that we imagined for ourselves. And somehow we imagined that their purpose was a very finite, you know, existence. That was very much in the present of managing them or just keeping them safe and happy. When we started to say “oh we've been thinking about this all wrong. Each of these people have a unique purpose.” Then we had to, one come to terms how we assumed very little was possible for them. And once when we did that, we had to commit ourselves to what was possible. Then we had to understand that's generally looks like a connected, included, participatory future. But, again its unique and wild for each person. So we had to design our services in a way that use time to get there. When we started to think about what that looks like, it takes a lifetime to build a life so we had to figure out how to invest our time and partnership with people in a sacred way that lead to that future. And allow the space for surprise and new relationships and affection to percolate.K: So that's that three hours that we spend a week instead of the four days.T: Yup. So instead of four days its three hours of invested time, and the week in between actually really matters, because we become new over that week and the story becomes a little deeper. Week by week it gets deeper and deeper. Its approaches that vision of the future. It approaches that forty to fifty-year story. You can only chip away at that a step at a time, or a day at a time week at a time, you can't knock it all out in a week or a month. It just doesn't work like that.

Katie: So, tell me about a time you saw a spark at Starfire.Tim: There was a young man that was coming here, Kyle, and he would walk around our day program, and he would walk in a very different way. He would turn his toes inward and make these sideways steps, and he would kind of walk around corners very intentionally. And, I remember, at the time we had a few staff who thought this was a really big problem – that he was acting strangely or it wasn't appropriate. One staff, a guy named Jon, had noticed that this young man had kind of an interest in martial arts, in ninja-kind of stories. And Jon actually noticed that what Kyle was doing was not strange or weird, it was actually a form of martial arts.So, the first spark was the noticing of that staff, saying, “Huh? I wonder if this isn't just weird or this isn't just strange or this isn't just a behavior problem. What if this is an intentional clue into who this person really is? Maybe this is one form of communication of who they think they are and who they were born to be.” As a result, another staff started to invite in a local martial arts master to teach for the reason of cultivating this interest that was noticed with this young man. So, Kyle gets an opportunity now, because of these two staff, to be in the presence of somebody who could be a mentor, or a sensei if you will, to his unfolding or emerging identity around the martial arts.A few months later, Kyle is having a planning session. His family is coming and our staff are gonna be there. We're thinking about who is Kyle. And, Bridget says, “We should be inviting Master Korchak, the martial artist that had been teaching the class. He should come and help us think about Kyle's future.” So again, here's the next spark, the idea that Master Korchak is not only here to teach about martial arts but he might come to a meeting to help us all imagine what Kyle's future could look like. And he carries a really interesting part of it, which is this interest, a passion that Kyle has for martial arts. And he knows a lot about that, he's dedicated his whole life and career to this. So, he'd be a logical person to invite in.So, in the planning session, they started talking about martial arts and when it came up that Kyle was interested. And the whole circle, everybody in the room – the family and our staff kind of came up with the idea that there's some Special Olympics classes they could explore around the martial arts and that's a legitimate thing for people to think of. However, Master Korchak said, “I think he could do my class. I do it every Monday and I think he could come. He's already good enough to be a part of that. It's a self-directed journey for everyone that's in the class, and Kyle's got enough of an interest and enough of capabilities to participate.”So, right there you see another spark: validation of Kyle's passion by an expert in his field, and an invitation out of the disability world, or the special world, and into the regular world, the regular martial arts class. And that really helped that family, I imagine, that everything they believed and knew about him, which is that he deserved a full life and a community was actually true. That there was somebody out there who believed what they believed. So again, you see this fanning of the flames.So this was 2012, when all this happens, and Kyle starts taking these classes, and we just received an email about a month ago that Kyle has his black belt in gumdo. And that's actually a story that we're gonna share next on this series. It took a lot of people to hold the flame of his passion. Kyle, himself, of course, insisting on a life that relates to martial arts. It was our staff, the paid people in Kyle's life, people in the martial arts community, as well as it was his family. So, it was everybody kind of acting with intention and helping this thing to move forward.That's one path, is what happens when a bunch of people keep contributing in little ways over time. Also important to notice, is how very fragile each point along that journey is. Is that it could have been smothered by the doubt of a staff, the certainty of a staff, the doubt of the family, the fear of a community member, lack of ambiguity from Kyle about where does this even go, why invest in this. So, there's so many places along the story where it could've all fallen apart. To us at Starfire, the biggest tragedy would be that a story like this would be lost. And, we actually think that this happen an awful lot. People's stories get lost because we're not fanning the flames, and we accidentally smother the points at which these kinds of stories and lives could emerge. So, we really believe that when you notice a spark, the key is to notice it and then to notice your own doubts or worries or concerns, and then to tamper those a little bit, and provide room for that spark to turn into a flame, to catch fire, to spread wildly in a way that would really ignite someone's whole community, their whole family, their whole selves, their whole future

Katie: So, why is the concept of staying important to Starfire's work?Tim: There is a great quote by Wendell Berry, and he talks about the marriage vows and they are not for better and for richer and for health, they are for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health. He says that in staying we learn something closer to the truth which is that not everything in life is happy, and not everything in life is great. I think people with disabilities and their families that I know, relate that there is a great joy in life, especially when they get included and supported and loved in a way that we at Starfire hope that they could be. That continues to be a struggle for them and their families. So, if we can think about staying in solidarity, and in fraternity, and in relationship with people, we can be with them in that struggle, and it can lead to some good things, but it could be tough, many tough days.I also think that when we think about “staying” we think about that same quote reminding us that there's going to ups and downs and it might be tempting to leave. Leaving is an assumption that somewhere else is going to be better, but staying seems to be an invitation and a commitment to making this place better or this life better or this relationship better. So staying implies, in the depth of that concept, that I'm not just going to get out of here; I'm not going to leave you or this place. I am going to be here. There are going to ups and downs and good days and bad days, but I am still going to be here. So I think staying through those good days and bad days, and through the struggles and through the joys, and paying attention to the closer you get to the truth of what life is all about, what inclusion is all about.Inclusion is not all happy and fun; it means I accept you as you are.I believe you can do better, but I accept you as you are. And you belong already; there is no need for you to have to earn it or prove that you are valuable, more valuable than you already are, so the idea of stay relates to peace. It relates to rest; it relates to some sort of satisfaction, and it relates to time in a really great way that I chose to commit myself to people, or a place, or to an idea, in a way that just gives the long story a chance to unfold. People with disabilities have a really small degree of imagination of story and imagination around their lives. There is a very short story about disability. It fits in this box and goes here and these people go here and that is what defines their life. So it is not a very big story and if we can stay with people and help nurture and participate in their journey and struggle for a better life, then we can see that there is a better story. You have to stay to see that better story.Katie: Is it important to talk about staying because that isn't a common reality for people with disabilities for in their lives that people often do not “stay”?Tim: Yeah, I mean, when we look at the people that we support and the people that we love and know with disabilities, we see a lot of leaving in their lives. You've got professionals that are in and out depending on their next job, or if they got fired or promoted or left. So, there's this constant turnover. And if we're being really honest, we hear that there's a lot of absence of community and rejection sometimes for people with disabilities and their families. And, an absence and rejection is a leaving of sorts. Right? Like, you're left alone. We're outta here. We're not gonna be with you anymore. So, when you've got a disability, you've got this turnover almost in your life. Your social stories are very short. People are in it for a few minutes or a few hours or a few weeks or months as professionals, they're not really in it for a long period of time. So, the counter, the antidote would be staying, the people that are there for a long time.There's also just an interesting, I would call it a creative limitation, that people with disabilities and their families are inviting us into.A lot of people I know who have disabilities can't drive. And so, their mobility is limited. They might not be able up and move to a new city for college because college isn't even an option. Or, they would lose their funding if they moved out of state. Or, the public transportation system doesn't actually travel between cities, you know. So, the mobility of people with disabilities is really physically limited, and the options of moving about are limited. So, then if we're asking the question, “How might someone with a disability have a good life?” one of the factors is we that we think the reality is they're going to be limited in how they move about.So, we would want to develop local networks and really have people who have stayed around them be part of the story, that would have known them for a long time. The last aspect of stay that I can think of that really matters is that staying relates to taking care of a place and the people in that place. So, there's another great essay that Wendell Berry wrote about his family's farm and the generations of his family that have taken care of that place. And there's a, by taking care of that place, they're taking care of the people around them and of that place too. So, people who take care of a neighborhood or take care of a block, or take care of a city; because they've lived there their whole lives, those are the kind of people who create a culture where somebody's looking after the place and the people in it.And, if we could have more people stay and own the caretaking of places, and root themselves deeply, they would grow big networks, and they would, over time, probably build a culture that was very conducive to the lives of people with disabilities and that culture.Katie: So, last question. Who do you think is called to stay? And, how do they do that?Tim: I think we're all called to stay. However, I don't think that any of us are required to stay. There are good reasons for moving on from relationships and places. You can't afford it, or the person you're committed to turns out not to be the person that you thought they were, and that's dangerous. But, I think that the problem is that if we don't leave the potential for staying open, then we don't ever invest deeply. We don't get to know the people around us because we're already out the door. We're buying this next house in order to flip it in five years, and move to a new place. So, why would we invest in each other? Why would we care about each other's well-being? Why would we look out for our neighbors? Why would we bring flowers to the woman whose husband passed away across the street? Why would we, you know, get to know the kids on our block if we're gonna be gone in a few years' time? So, the temporary-ness that we start with is key. Or the permanency.If we start with an idea that this might be a place that I stay, and we find out that it's not, that's great because the assumption was there to begin with, and we invested as if we were going to stay. I once met a woman who really challenged me on that. And she said, “I was a military kid. I had to move.” She said, “And, I'm still a military wife now.” And she said, “I still have to move.” And she said, “But every place I go, I invest like I'm gonna be there for the rest of my life.” That was awesome and beautiful.She didn't forego relationships, she didn't create an absence in the neighborhood or in the families around her by assuming that she would be gone. She actively, intentionally said I'm going to invest, because I know I'm gonna be gone but I still need to take care of this place by investing in it as though I'm gonna live here myself.So, if I'm a person with a disability and I don't get to move, but everybody around me is flipping their houses every five years, and everybody is of the mindset that they're outta here in a few years, then quickly my condition deteriorates, and I could be stuck. And, instead of staying, I'm stuck. Everybody around me – no one knows me. No one's built a great garden that I can be a part of. Nobody knows when my birthday is. And, I'm not a part of their world either.