Podcasts about anne it

主播：Anne（中国）+ 梅莉（法国）歌曲：Bana Ellerini Ver今天，我们聊一聊生活中绝对不能少的一样东西——music。上个周末，在青岛的小麦岛，举办了一场法国音乐节，我们的主播Anne和梅莉都去了。两位主播回忆起当时的气氛，直呼it was so lit（太燃了）!这场音乐节的主题是“Beats and Bites”，beats就是节奏，bites指的就是food。There was a stage set up（搭了一个舞台），还有一个food market（美食集市），里面卖some croissants（羊角面包）, red wine（红酒）, meat and different products。• croissant /kwɑ:ˈsɑ:nt/ n.羊角面包Anne去的时候a French group was performing on stage，现场的每个人was jumping up and down，当时正好the sun was setting（日落），you have the city lights on one side and the ocean on the other side，一边是海，一边是落日，that was so chillaxed（人会超放松）。• chillaxed: chill和relaxed组合在一起的新词，用于形容一种非常轻松、放松的状态。其实，小麦岛的这个音乐节是part of a bigger global music festival（一个国际性节日的一部分），这个音乐节就是“世界音乐节”。01世界音乐节Music Day世界音乐节started in France，但是现在it is now celebrated all over the world in nearly 120 countries（有近120个国家都在庆祝）。这个音乐节在法语里是Fête de la Musique，意思是music festival，但它也有法语里的双关含义，就是“make some music”，创作音乐。这就是为什么国际音乐节会被叫做Make Music Day！It's held and celebrated every year on June 21.每年的6月21日，也就是在夏至（the summer solstice）这一天庆祝。It's a great way to kick off the summer.这是开启夏天的一个很好的方式。以音乐来开启盛夏，真的是一个极棒的主意。它是由French Minister of Culture（法国文化部长）Jack Lang首次提出（proposed），音乐节的美好期许是“music will be everywhere and concerts nowhere”（音乐将无处不在，音乐会将无处可寻），其实就是去打破这种音乐是教条的、高高在上的固有观念（break the stereotype that music should be high and mighty），去鼓励人们自由地创作音乐（to make music freely in the public space），而非只在音乐会上才能感受音乐，进行演奏。所以，在这一天，人们可以在任意的公众场所listen to and play music，比如说in the streets, outside cafés（在咖啡馆外）, in parks and even in museums, hospitals and other public spaces。你也不必pay for these concerts，the musicians will play for free（音乐家们将免费演奏）。每个人都可以enjoy music，showcase their musical talents（展示他们的音乐才华），其实这才是音乐最本真的样子（the purest form of music）。• showcase /ˈʃoʊkeɪs/ v.展示02怎么地道地形容音乐？Music Vocabulary我们之前的节目中介绍过不同的音乐流派（different genres），比如说classical music（古典音乐）、soul or R&B（灵魂音乐）等等，这些不同类型的歌能给人带来不同的音乐体验。“这歌真好听！”用英语怎么说？如果这首歌是slower-paced（节奏慢一点的），你可以说：this song is beautiful！如果“这首歌很感人”，那就可以说：it is very emotional。如果说一首快歌（fast-paced）很好听，就可以说：this song is fire！如果这首歌“很洗脑”，听起来很上头，你就可以说：this song is so catchy！比如说，对于主播梅莉来说，Baby Shark这首歌就很洗脑。Baby Shark is very catchy!而对于Anne来说，《卡路里》is catchy。表达“洗脑”，除了说这首歌catchy，你也可以说：it's stuck in my head（字面意思就是“卡在我脑子里出不来了”）。如果要说一首歌“很带感”，比如凤凰传奇的歌，就可以说：their songs are groovy。Groovy用来形容音乐就是说这首歌has a strong rhythm（节奏很强），而且it really makes you wanna dance（让你不禁想动起来）。• groovy /ˈɡru:vi/ adj.吸引人的03主播们喜欢的音乐风格喜欢听什么歌it really depends on your mood（真的取决于你的心情）。梅莉比较喜欢older songs，她听的很多歌都是classics（经典音乐）。The group Queen is a must on all of their car rides（皇后乐队的歌是他们开车必放曲目）。比如Bohemian Rhapsody（《波西米亚狂想曲》）以及We Will Rock You（《我们将震撼你》）就是非常经典的曲子。梅莉后来也很喜欢the genre Afrobeat，这种类型的歌起源于非洲，it combines African music with jazz (爵士),funk, and soul music(灵魂音乐)，这个风格的歌比较欢快。It has a really nice rhythm(节奏真的非常带感).Another genre of music Maelle really likes is R&B/Soul (灵魂音乐). 对于这种类型的音乐，梅莉最喜欢的乐队是Thee Sacred Souls，他们的音乐is calm and very nice to listen to。梅莉最喜欢他们的那首Can I Call You Rose，这首歌很平静，it's quite mesmerizing（有神秘的吸引力），almost like in a dream。• mesmerizing /ˈmezməraɪzɪŋ/ adj.有吸引力的对于主播Anne来说，she really just listens to whatever she comes across，她也很喜欢老歌，比如说Yesterday Once More。当Anne还小的时候，她很喜欢Jay Chou周杰伦。Anne尤其喜欢周杰伦那些有中国风元素的歌（songs with Chinese elements and style），比如说《东风破》和《发如雪》，这些歌能够takeher back to the times when people are still listening to music on tape recorders（把她带回那个还在用磁带机听音乐的年代）。Music truly is a universal language that brings people together. 音乐是能够把人们聚集在一起的全世界共同语言。有的时候即使听不懂歌词，我们还是能感受到那份美好。在这里，我们也鼓励大家平时不光是听歌，也可以多去用自己的方式make some music。其实，making music并不难，you can make music in so many ways，比如说go to karaoke（去卡拉OK），play an instrument（演奏乐器），或者只是sing in the shower（冲澡的时候哼唱）。聊起making music，主播Anne聊起了自己的经历，她打小就学习乐器，小时候学习过小提琴，但自打她took the musical exam（考级）之后，she just rarely have the chance to sether hands on it（再也没碰过琴）。很多学过乐器的人估计和Anne是一样的，已经很久没有碰过乐器了。但没关系的！It's something that probably if you start playing again, it'll come back naturally though.如果你重新开始演奏，那种感觉会自然地回来的。无论你是不是擅长演奏音乐，just do it and enjoy yourself！

Get ready to unravel the intricate world of awards in business! We promise, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on the role and impact of awards in business - the good, the bad, and the downright stressful. We kick off our lively discussion by peeling back the glitzy curtain to expose the challenges and rewards of organizing an awards ceremony. From the high stakes of selecting winners to the joyous recognition of one's hard work, it's a rollercoaster journey. We open up about our own awards experiences and how it can often feel like a numbers game. Plus, we'll delve into the emotional side too, sharing some insights on how to handle not winning or being nominated, and why it's important to savor any recognition you do receive. 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguzza.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapides. Hey everyone. Hey Lau.  0:00:31 - Lau Hey, beautiful, beautiful, right back at ya.  0:00:34 - Anne How are you today?  0:00:36 - Lau Oh, I'm fabulous. I feel like this is going to be a very rewarding show, or maybe a rewarding show oh oh hey. See what I did.  0:00:45 - Anne I see what you did there. It's funny Lau. We just attended an award ceremony and there's a lot of different opinions out there on do we like awards, do we not like awards? Maybe we should have a talk about that Lau. What do you think I?  0:00:58 - Lau love it. I haven't heard anyone really talk about discussing awards like the process, not just the winning of the award, but also like what goes into the entire process. It's really a huge thing. Sometimes takes six months or a year to prep that kind of thing. Yeah.  0:01:16 - Anne Well, I will tell you that. First of all, I guess bosses out there we want to hear how you feel about awards too. I mean, there's so much discussion happening out there, oh gosh, on the Facebook groups and in social media about awards, and are they worth it? Because some awards cost money to enter, some awards don't. In our industry right now, I know of two distinct award shows that go on. However, they are not the only awards that you can certainly enter if you feel the desire to do that.  Lau. I have been a supporter of award shows since the beginning. However, there are many pros and there are many cons to it. Pros is that if you win an award, it's validation. Sometimes it's so difficult to be validated while we sit here in our studios all by ourselves and we don't get a lot of feedback all the time. Gosh, I'm always telling my corporate students we just want to be loved. When you work for a company and you feel underappreciated, I mean, gosh, that's really all we long for is to be loved. I think awards can be a verification of that. But then again, sometimes they may not be, because maybe you didn't win, and then that enters in a whole new mental aspect of. Oh my gosh, I wasn't good enough to win this award. Why did I not win this award? Somebody else is better than me. What are your thoughts about that Lau?  0:02:42 - Lau I think that when you go into this kind of a process, if you're entering into it and really submitting yourself for it intentionally, you have to set your mindset and your psychology to the fact that it is competitive. It is a competition. You may or may not feel like it is, but it really is. It should be based on merit. It should be based on your progress, your process and your product. And sometimes we only have so much control over that right. We manage it. We only have so much control right, that's the big thing.  0:03:16 - Anne And I just said it should be based on merit, and, right there, we could probably spend an entire podcast talking about that. It should be based on merit. However, there is the other side of the coin where, yes, it should be based on merit, but then you have the people who judge the awards right, and we don't always know, first of all, who those people are. Sometimes we do. I'm not a big fan of knowing who judges are. I feel like maybe there's too much possibility for people to maybe try to talk to the judges and influence them, so I'd rather not have judges be known. And then you have to really think about what are the judges qualifications? Because within voice over, we have so many different categories right, and so many different categories of awards.  If you're going to, I would say, present these categories of awards, I think you want to have very vetted judges right Judging the entries. And I am not sure, since we don't know who the judges are all the time, or even if we do know who the judges are, what is the criteria for me, a demo award versus a performance award, and in all different genres, I think it's super important that the people judging those are very specialized in those genres or in that category. So if you're judging animation, I would hope that judges are all experienced either working in animation or doing animation day in, day out and they really know the industry, and so I really would hope that that's the case. I don't know Lau if that's the case with all the judges, because, again, we don't always know who the judges are and we don't know what their credentials are.  0:04:50 - Lau Right, and I can say just from my personal point of view that it's not always the case.  Because at times I've been asked to judge categories which I feel like I can judge them. I can judge them, but am I way off base? No, I don't think so. I think there's a general industry knowledge that you have for years in the industry, but is it my absolute forte? No, not always it's not my forte. We try to get that matching process, but sometimes it's a numbers game, just like the competitors. It's like do we have enough judges? Do we have enough judges in a particular category? Are we getting them in time? Can they get the work done?  0:05:24 - Anne That's right in time, and that's the other thing. I mean, my goodness, judging some of these awards, because I have been a judge myself. First of all, when there's a lot of categories and a lot of entries, who, it becomes like a casting process and right then, and there bosses. I want that to tell you one thing. That means that sometimes right and I'm not going to speak for myself, but sometimes if you've asked a busy person to be a judge and then they have to listen to a thousand entries, they're probably only going to get the first part of your entry listened to before they have to continue on.  So that is something to consider. I mean, if there's a nuance or an acting moment that is at the end of your performance, maybe you want to try to create that clip so that all that great stuff is right at the beginning, because it is a job. It can be a lengthy and timely job, and if judges are not given an appropriate amount of time to do that, or they don't have a lot of time to do that, and they think like, yeah, I can judge that, and then all of a sudden it becomes overwhelming, well, then you get, the judging process becomes a little skewed to be quite honest because either I don't have time or I've heard too many entries.  I'm now overwhelmed. But yeah, there's so many things that go into it, my goodness. And then are the entries anonymous. We hope they are right, because we don't want the judges to be influenced by names or celebrity or that type of thing. But our voice is our product, right? So sometimes I'll tell you what it's hard to hide, because I know a lot of voices out there and I can pick them out like this I would agree.  0:07:01 - Lau And you know this last time, one of the last ones, you and I judged we were under an NDA, which I actually really appreciated I did too Right. It took a lot of stress, because not that I would be necessarily blabbing about that, I wouldn't but it reminded my brain like, separate it, compartmentalize it, because you and I we were a lot of hats, you know casting an agent and coach, and this and that, and so there is sometimes that one or two talent that we know. We do know them, and then could we recuse ourselves?  Sometimes we can sometimes we can't, because they can't move us into another category. So it's great to have that compartmentalization and that relaxation to know, okay, if there is someone in front of me that I know that's a client or a client of a friend of mine, that I am separating that from this hat, that I'm wearing, and then I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to speak about that and I have.  I wonder what you think about this. And I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings about the awards being given and then the judge's names coming out. It sort of makes me feel like a jury that all of a sudden is being. You hear the names of the jury who's on a criminal case. It makes me feel uncomfortable. It's like why do I need to know that information? What do you think about that?  0:08:21 - Anne That's very interesting and I appreciate that you brought that up because, as I mentioned, I always have been a fan of keeping anonymous I mean for the longest time and this isn't anything that's being judged. For example, I have done the VO Peeps scholarships for gosh 12 years already and when we judge those entries I don't disclose the names of the judges and I don't even disclose the names of the judges after the fact. Because again, what if I want to use those judges, maybe again, and I don't want to have anybody influenced and I don't want the judges, I feel like I don't need credit If I'm a judge. I don't need credit in being a judge. I just want to be able to judge fairly. And I happen to agree with you.  I don't think that judges' names should ever be disclosed really, and I'm not quite sure why the reason is and it might just be that they want to be thanked properly, but it's like when I give a donation, I don't always have to put my name on that. You know it can be an anonymous donation because I did it out of the goodness of my heart. If I'm judging something, I want it to just be the most fair that it can possibly be.  0:09:24 - Lau I'm glad you brought that up, Because when I see that at a ceremony someone who's kind enough to give money towards a scholarship or towards an award. I kind of feel bad for them Because I'm like as much as you are. Oh aren't they wonderful. They don't always want that recognition. They don't always feel comfortable knowing that. It's well-known knowledge that anyone who wins a lottery like they have to be very careful about releasing their name, because then they become a target and people go after them.  So you have to wonder if you're in an award ceremony, could you then become some sort of target that people are either trying to embellish themselves?  0:10:01 - Anne to you or they're trying to knock you down, similar to being an agent Lau. I'm just saying I know nothing about that.  0:10:09 - Lau It's so true.  0:10:10 - Anne It's like they're prostrate themselves to you day and night right.  0:10:13 - Lau I'm not one to really appreciate that. Honestly, I'm very private in that way. Like, if I'm going to give a bunch of money, I'd rather it not have my name in there. But that's just me. Other people do want that recognition. That's fine. That's totally fine.  0:10:28 - Anne I'm going to say I'm not here to shame anybody saying if you put your name on a donation that it's shameful.  I just think there are times when I don't think it's necessary and sometimes, yeah, I mean I'll put my name on a donation if I can add a note to it, to the recipient in wishing them good will, that kind of a thing, and that will be a reason for that.  But I think La one thing I want to really make a point of about awards is when you enter awards. Having experienced both sides of it being a judge and then also entering into awards myself I think you just have to really be made of Teflon number one, because the process is very subjective, right, and we're starting to kind of address all the things that go into the awards submitting and then the judging process and if you know who the judges are, are they qualified and that process. But I think one thing I want to stress to the bosses out there is please do not ever belittle yourself If you do not win an award or if you don't get nominated for an award. I think that, especially in our business, because it's very much a personal part of us, it's our voice, right, it is so personal and if you ever don't feel as though we've succeeded, it can be really, really damaging to our psyche.  0:11:44 - Lau I would agree, I would agree. Do not give a ton of weight to that process. And it's very funny, it's almost like auditioning.  It's like don't give a ton of weight to anyone audition brush it off and leave and go on to the next thing. But yet, when you're actually auditioning, give it the 100% it deserves, completely, commit to it completely, invest in it, completely, appreciate it. So, if you're awarded something or nominated, completely be present, be appreciative, love the moments, enjoy your community, love the attention. But then when you walk away, I really do believe you have the award. You're not going to forget about the award, you're going to utilize it as well in your marketing.  0:12:23 - Anne Oh, absolutely, but don't hang your hat on it. That's another positive.  0:12:27 - Lau Absolutely, don't hang your hat on it Like I'm the best, I'm the expert, I'm finished. No, it's a recognition that your work is at an industry standard that people want to appreciate, but there's a lot more to go.  0:12:40 - Anne Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that it's wonderful to get an award and it's wonderful to get nominated. I mean, if I want to make a distinction between being nominated and winning an award, I feel that the nomination is an award in and of itself because, listen to this award nominated, award winning, I mean honestly, they still start with award and so if you're going to use that to market, I mean gosh, just to be like sometimes narrowed down and be put on the shortlist, you can be proud of that to be nominated, and I really, really do believe that that can be celebrated as a win. And again, even if you're not nominated, understand that your work has value, you have worth, you have value and just because you didn't get the nomination or get a win doesn't mean that you are any less of a professional or accomplished and successful individual. I agree totally agree.  0:13:30 - Lau I'd love to talk, too, about the length of awards ceremonies. I think that that is either thought about or it's not thought about, maybe it's thought about, maybe it's not thought about, but they could run three, four hours in length, sometimes Absolutely, and I wonder how the audience feels about going through that kind of process and sitting through that process. We did an awards not long ago, you and I, where we literally sat in a chair for three hours.  There was no break. There was no moment to take a breath, walk around, nothing, and I thought that that was a very strange choice on the part of the organizers to keep people in a seat for that length of time and expect that focus to really stay there and be there late at night. What do you think about that?  0:14:20 - Anne I'm just thinking about all the awards ceremonies that we've become accustomed to on television. If you watch the Emmys or the Golden Globes, and there's always either food or drink at the table. Number one that helps If you're going to have to be planted or seated in an audience. I think that that works. And what if you have to leave to use the restroom right?  And then they announce your award. Hopefully you want to have like a series of events and when are they going to announce this category? I happen to know a very good friend of mine who was caught in the bathroom when they won and, yeah, it was not able to come to the stage and give their acceptance speech. But I think that sometimes sitting through the awards ceremony can be laborious if there's not any kind of entertainment kind of interspersed in there and or some sort of a schedule of events. And I know that that's difficult and sometimes they want to keep it a surprise for the people, they want to keep people in their seats. But yeah, it can get tiring. I will say that my tushy got a little bit sore and I've been to longer ones Okay, I have been to longer ones than the one that you and I were at, which we're really excruciating just because of the length and not all categories were called up to the stage.  0:15:30 - Lau So no, no, they need to sell cushions like they do it at the stadiums.  0:15:34 - Lau Buy a cushion.  0:15:36 - Lau you have to sit on the cushion and that would make a lot of sense, though I did think of a shortcut because I'm an organizer myself events, and one of the shortcuts I don't think anyone would ever do, but I think makes total sense. There were a handful of people at a few of the ceremonies that you and I intended that one more than one award One in particular. I can remember he won three. Okay, lovely, good for him. Why did they spread that out and why did he need to come up three times, have three spills in which he ran out of things to say? He was telling jokes by the end of it. Why not house those categories One, two, three. They have a sense. Maybe he's gonna win, maybe.  0:16:16 - Lau I don't know I mean they're preparing?  0:16:18 - Anne No, I don't know who's preparing the envelopes, remember they?  0:16:20 - Lau well, yeah, they're preparing the envelopes.  0:16:22 - Anne It's under lock and key right. So nobody knows. So that's theoretically. Somebody knows.  0:16:27 - Lau That's theoretically. Somebody knows Theoretically?  0:16:28 - Anne somebody knows. But again, but then I don't think Lau you'd want the audience to expect right that the next category he would be the winner as well. So there'd be no right. No, but if you think about it that way, right, if they know he won in multiple categories and then they called the second category once they did a series of right, the audience would expect it so. I don't think you can do it that way, and I think he handled it well.  0:16:50 - Lau Personally, listen, I think theoretically, it's true, but you and I know most of the audience was dying to get out and get a hamburger. You know what I mean. Like if I could get some french fries and cut this a little bit shorter, I'm all over the nuggets. You know what I mean. Like I'm ready to go. I don't need it to be that extra hour.  0:17:07 - Anne Well, I think that it could be maybe addressed at the amount of categories, maybe. Maybe, but then they wanna make sure that they're covering everybody, so I can see where organizers have a big job here.  0:17:19 - Lau Yeah it's tough, you know, there's a lot.  0:17:20 - Anne You know everybody wants to be represented. As a matter of fact, I am like all for let's have the best medical narration demo. I want that because you know that's something that I do and that's something I would love to submit for, and there's no category anywhere for that, so I can see where they have to.  0:17:37 - Lau Of course it's entertainment as well, so they have to pad the whole evening with different kinds of entertainment and videos and jokes, and that pads it with another hour or another hour and a half. So I get that, but I totally get that.  0:17:52 - Anne I'm gonna say what do you say Lau about? Like cause, I'm okay with the words. I'm okay with the words because over the years I've learned a little bit more about how they work. And I've won, I've lost, I've not been nominated. I've been nominated. I've been through it all myself, the emotional swing that it can cause, right. And I'm still okay with the words because I can understand them for what they are.  And so, bosses, I hope that this helps you to just kind of get a better grip on what they are and not that it determine your value at all. If you choose not to enter or not support award service, that's entirely fine. You can still be a boss, absolutely. But I don't think that this kind of back and forth war that we have about awards, I think it gets a little bit divided and for not really a good reason. I don't think. If you want to enter, go ahead and enter and don't shame people who enter awards. I really am a big fan of that. I mean I don't love negative talk on social media for people who enter awards or get awards or that kind of a thing.  0:18:54 - Lau I am so with you on that. And that would extend too to people who do not come to the awards, who for many reasons, can't, won't or don't want to come to the awards. I think that's fine. I mean, if I'm being nominated, I'll go because I'm very honored and I'll buy the dress and I'll do the thing and I'll enjoy it. But there are others that say no, it's not my scene or I can't afford it.  0:19:18 - Anne Yeah, oh yeah, I don't want to because I'm in Florida. It can get expensive. I mean, you're talking about, typically, people like to dress for these things. So you're talking airfare, maybe, travel expenses, hotel expenses, dress expenses or suit? Yeah, absolutely, and for me, I had makeup and hair, but I always liked to have an excuse to have it make up and hair.  0:19:40 - Lau But You're so schmelzy that way. Well for me.  0:19:44 - Anne I'm telling you, for me it's a little spa day.  I mean, if somebody can just handle that for me I can think about like what I have to do I always talk about when I present. I like to have hair and makeup because then I don't have to worry about those things, that I can concentrate on my presentation. So while I'm somebody who's doing my hair, I am like doing notes for presentations. For me it's just an investment, but it can be very expensive. Awards can be very expensive and sometimes you have to buy the award after the fact and that is also expensive. So there's a lot of, I think, pros to it but yet a lot of cons, and I don't want you bosses out there to feel any less than worthy or valuable just because you do or don't enter an award show.  0:20:26 - Lau I'm with you on that Ann and. I would say no matter how you take part, I would urge people to take part in some way, whether you're a witness or you're submitting or you're just congratulating someone who won and just support the community in any way that's best and comfortable for you because it is ultimately, I would imagine, there for the people and for the community and for the recognition and we don't want to completely lose that. We want to preserve that, you know. However, you take part.  0:20:57 - Anne And also I wanna just say, unless you're organizing an award event, I think if you could maybe steer clear of criticism. I just I mean, I just I think that if people criticize people who hold events and they say, well, it's all about the money, or they try to figure out, oh, how many people times how much the cost of a ticket, wow, they're making a lot of money. And then they make assumptions on the fact that, oh, they're just doing that because they're greedy or whatever reason you have. I think, honestly, just having a husband who does events and myself I've done events live- YouTube events like.  I think, anybody that can sit back behind a keyboard and criticize about an event if they've not organized one themselves, especially one that's in a hotel, where you have to pay probably a big chunk of fees to a hotel for food, for the space. Just to do that is not a cheap thing at all. And so what event organizers charge for their event? I mean, I just steer clear of any kind of criticism because I know how expensive it can be very expensive, Very, especially in this day and age.  0:22:05 - Lau it's the most expensive it's ever been.  0:22:07 - Anne Oh yeah, absolutely so have a little mercy and understanding on event organizations.  0:22:11 - Lau And then the other thing too and I wanted to say not just about awards, but we're talking about awards right now is like don't look the gift horse in the mouth in regards to, like, the people who organize a range direct all of that deserve the profit they make oftentimes.  0:22:29 - Anne Oh, absolutely, because they are going through such stress.  0:22:33 - Lau It's beyond a full-time job. No one realizes that unless they're involved with that kind of work.  0:22:38 - Anne Well, my husband does it as a full-time job, I mean, and it's crazy because even people that he works with don't understand what it takes to prepare for an event.  0:22:46 - Lau It is crazy, but I love that you said please have compassion, I'm backing you up on that.  0:22:51 - Anne I'm backing you up on that, because it's not easy to do something like that.  But yet it seems so easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and just make assumptions. And I think yeah, and so don't make assumptions about, I think, awards, events, the event organizers or even the judges, or even if you agree or don't agree with awards. I really feel like just one of my favorite sayings is to mind your own business, and I don't mean that in a mom way, I mean that my VO business is my business. And if I feel that maybe entering an award competition will maybe help my marketing, I'm going to do it and I don't want to be criticized for that or looked upon badly for that. But again, and I will try not to cry if I don't win, because I think anybody that knows me knows how darn competitive I am- Ooh, I am competitive, you are, I've got a box of tissues for you.  Thank you, so you don't need to worry about that at all. See the Lau.  0:23:41 - Lau that's why I want you at my side at all at all times I'm ready with a tissue, a handkerchief whatever, a shoulder and a turkey sandwich and a turkey sandwich at all costs A turkey sandwich, and that's what support is like.  0:23:55 - Anne I love that, that kind of support. Right, we need to lift each other up, and so, if awards are your thing, support the people in the community, like Lau supports me with a turkey sandwich and a box of tissues. I love that right, it's so true, it's so true. And Lau. And if I can get you a turkey sandwich at any time, I will do so, and that's why I love you back because we're all about getting of the turkey sandwich.  0:24:23 - Lau It's not even Thanksgiving, that's the best part.  0:24:25 - Anne Bosses, you might be wondering what are they talking about? Well, at one of the last conferences, it happened to be late at night and I had been presenting and had gotten out of like multiple panels and X sessions or whatever it was, and by the time I got to the restaurant to eat they had closed. It was like after 10 o'clock and everything had shut down and I was starving. I literally was like I need something and there was no door dash that could be quick, and so Lau to the rescue. Who actually went and secured me a turkey sandwich that magically appeared from behind the desk Late at night.  0:25:05 - Lau Behind the front desk. Yes, I was like the Ooma Thurman in the Kill Bill series. I just jumped over the desk, I tackled the woman behind there and I said how could you not be?  0:25:17 - Anne open and it was fresh and I ravaged that turkey sandwich. I did, I literally did, and it was, the bread was flying, the turkey was in my mouth and I ate it like a caveman. I mean literally, it was beyond Quentin Tarantino stuff. I didn't even have utilities to eat it with. I ate it with my hands, I know I didn't even have a sword.  0:25:35 - Lau I just used the verbal sword play of my mouth and my words.  0:25:39 - Anne But that's the story of the turkey sandwich and Lau how she came to save me. Okay, so everybody needs a Lau, right, Everybody needs a Lau on their side.  0:25:47 - Lau So, Lau.  0:25:48 - Anne I mean, what a great conversation. I mean, I hope bosses, you guys always know your value, whether you are winning awards or not. Winning awards, you guys, you are gifts and awards in our hearts, and so make sure that you feel that way about yourself and, of course, others in the industry, and let's lift each other up. So I love it.  0:26:08 - Lau We love you if you win, and we love you even more if you don't win, because it's all about your process. There you go.  0:26:15 - Anne There you go, and, speaking of awards and making a difference, you guys can use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Just like Lau gives me turkey sandwiches, so you guys visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and big shout out to IPDTL, our favorite way to connect Bosses. You, too, can find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:26:47 - Lau Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  0:27:17 - Anne This time a little more conversational. I'll give something I actually give something really, really conversational once and they're like oh yeah, give me a little more conversation and I'll give it completely conversational. They'll be like oh Hmm, how about a little more energy? And you know, when they ask for more energy, that usually means they're looking for a little more cell, yeah, if you're not anywhere near it, oh yeah maybe a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more energy that gives you the cell back.  Transcribed by https://podium.page

Join us for a fascinating discussion as we unpack Amazon unBoxed 2023, exploring the most exciting releases such as generative AI and more that can level up your advertising game. Our co-host from Pacvue, Anne Harrell provides us with a unique perspective on the advertising industry. Let's start with our chat with Jeff Cohen, Principal Evangelist, Advertising API at Amazon, as he shares his transition journey and the biggest differences he's noticed. Listen in as we dive into the role of ad tech in digital transformation and its implications for brands. We examine Amazon Ads' new offerings like generative AI and sponsored TV, which promise to revolutionize brand imagery and audience engagement. Get the inside scoop on Amazon PPC and new-to-brand metrics that could redefine your brand's success measurement. We also explore Amazon Publisher Cloud, a game-changing technology for publishers that promises unique and differentiated opportunities for advertisers. Get to know Miranda Chen, the director of growth and modernization for Amazon Marketing Cloud, as she walks us through its potential. Learn how lookalike audiences can help your brand reach new customers and how templatized analytics can make AMC more accessible. We also examine Amazon Marketing Stream and Rapid Retail Analytics, which provide valuable data on retail signals. Discover how sponsored products can appear on platforms like Pinterest and the features that make Amazon's new Sponsored TV offering a game-changer. All this and more, right here on our podcast!   In episode 504 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley, Anne, and our special guests discuss: 00:00 - Amazon unBoxed 2023 04:31 - Insights on Amazon and Advertising Growth 08:29 - Sponsored TV and Ad Tech Announcements 12:29 - Embracing Change in Amazon Advertising 20:40 - Amazon Advertising Full Funnel Solutions 23:39 - Benefits and Capabilities of Demandside Platforms 28:25 - Lookalike Audiences for Reaching New Customers 34:59 - Amazon Marketing and Rapid Retail Analytics 41:15 - Amazon's Sponsored TV Announcement ► Instagram: instagram.com/serioussellerspodcast ► Free Amazon Seller Chrome Extension: https://h10.me/extension ► Sign Up For Helium 10: https://h10.me/signup (Use SSP10 To Save 10% For Life) ► Learn How To Sell on Amazon: https://h10.me/ft ► Watch The Podcasts On YouTube: youtube.com/@Helium10/video Transcript Bradley Sutton: Today we've got a special episode here at Amazon Unbox 2023 where we're going to talk about all of their releases, like generative AI and sponsored brand hats, and also a lot of cool things like sponsored TV. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. If you're like me, maybe you were intimidated about learning how to do Amazon PPC, or maybe you think you just don't have the hours and hours that it takes to download and sort through all of those sponsored ads reports that Amazon produces for you. Adtomic for me allowed me to learn PPC for the first time, and now I'm managing over 150 PPC campaigns across all of my accounts in only two hours a week. Find out how Adtomic can help you level up your PPC game. Visit h10/adtomic for more information. That's h10.me/adtomic. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10 I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. We're here at Amazon Unboxed in New York. I've been on the road for like three weeks and there's a second there where I wasn't quite sure where. I was. I've been in so many countries lately, but we've got a co-host today and from Pacvue, and how's it going? Anne: Great. How are you doing? Bradley Sutton: I'm just delightful. Now, what is your background? What do you do at Pacvue? Anne: Yeah, so I'm a product solutions director for DSP at Pacvue, so I do basically anything related to DSP and AMC help with our product road mapping, help with strategy for some of our enterprise level clients doing customer within AMC marketing you name it, I probably do it. Bradley Sutton: How long have you been at Pacvue? Anne: I've been at Pacvue for coming up on four years now, so about three and a half years total. A lot has changed since I joined. I started at Pacvue focusing on our managed services team, so I was primarily working with some of our strategic accounts, helping to build out their capabilities, doing strategy not just for DSP but across kind of omni-channel focuses, so for search as well. Prior to working at Pacvue, I actually worked in an agency in Austin, Texas, where I'm normally based, where I again did omni-channel strategy for enterprise level accounts. So my background is not just with programmatic and DSP, but I really gravitated to it. It's just one of those types of advertising channels that really allows you to have a lot of flexibility and creativity and really is conducive to innovation. So I really enjoy working on the DSP side of things. Bradley Sutton: Cool. Now what did you go to school for? Anne: I went to school for advertising, so I think I'm in the right place. Bradley Sutton: Okay, so you're right. Where did you go to school at? Anne: It's called St Edward's University. It's in Austin, Texas. So I've been in Austin since I went to school and I just never left about a decade. Bradley Sutton: Okay, I was about to say, because you don't sound like you were born and raised in Austin. Anne: I was not Okay. Bradley Sutton: What were you born and raised? Anne: Well, where I was born was Hattiesburg, Mississippi, but raised is a harder question. I moved about 10 times before I graduated high school. So you pick a state, I probably was raised there. Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool, yeah, because I was like wait a minute, she doesn't sound like a native Texan here. Anne: I know no accent yet. Bradley Sutton: All right, maybe 15, 20 years from now you might have a little twang in here. Anne: Right, right, I actually have a little bit of a Southern accent, I think I kind of got rid of it as I moved around. Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool. Now what are you? We're going to be talking to some people that probably people have never heard of podcasts, right? You know there are exactly executives here at Amazon who are you most excited to talk to today. Anne: If I were to have to say, my favorite subject matter is definitely the DSP AMC side of things, and I know that we're speaking to Kelly, who's the VP of DSP, so that's obviously a great place to start. We're also going to speak to Miranda, who is a director for AMC at Amazon, so I think there's going to be a lot of really great content around that. But in general, we're also talking to a lot of people who are very broadly focused across all of ads, and so I think we'll have something for everyone in this one. Bradley Sutton: Yeah, so you guys might be. There might be some newbies out there, don't tune out. This is stuff that you're going to need to know If you're an advanced seller. We're going to talk about some stuff that you guys might be able to use right away. That was just announced this week at Amazon Unbox, so let's go ahead and hop right into the interviews, all right. First up, we've got my brother from another mother here, jeff Cohen. Jeff, how's it going? Jeff: Everything is great. So great to see you, so great to see the whole Helium 10 Pack View team at this conference. It's great to catch up with everybody. Bradley Sutton: Yeah, Now you've been in the game longer than me. I remember the very first conference I spoke at. You were a speaker and you were already a veteran speaker at that time. You know side note that that conference there probably had the best food I've ever had at the conference. This is probably the second best Like. Jeff: I'm really impressed with the offerings here. Yeah, I'm curious what conference that is, but we don't have to go into that now. Bradley Sutton: But it was right here in New York. But you were on the SaaS side. You know, like I am now. Now you're at Amazon, like what's been the biggest you know kind of eye-opening thing or difference, now that you're on the other side of the aisle. Jeff: Yeah, interesting because I always like to joke that you know I drink the Amazon Kool-Aid before I ever like came here. I've been an Amazon like fanboy since like 2005 when I started textbookscom and it's been interesting because I'm in a unique position where I can bring the outside in and the inside out, and I think that you know, one of the many things that I've learned is maybe like the patience that you have to have with Amazon Maybe I didn't have as much patience when I was on the outside and the amount of time that it takes for some of the things to develop at Amazon. But when they like grow and they go to scale, it then moves at like this rocket ship pace. And so I think you're starting to see that with some of the tools, like AMC or even like you know what's happening with, like Amazon Studios and some of the new, you know productions that are coming out, you have this like rocket ship pace of what's happening in terms of the development and the new opportunities and how advertisers are using the technology, and so you have to kind of be patient when new things come out. So when you have a totally new product like Sponsored TV, you got to realize that it takes a little bit of time to kind of figure out how does it work into the individual advertisers media mix, and so that's the measurement work for each brand along the way. But then once it kind of gets up to full speed, you get to see like how it all works and you know and how it's really excelling brand growth. Bradley Sutton: Yeah, now we're going to be interviewing a lot of your colleagues here about some very specific announcements that happened here at Unboxed and before I ask you to give a rundown, you know, one of the things that was announced today it's on the website too is about the new generative AI that can help people doing Sponsored Brand Ads to generate some new creatives. Can you talk about that just a little bit? Jeff: Yeah, I think there were like three themes to the keynote today that I kind of jotted down. One was this idea of, like digital transformation and one was this idea of like how ad tech plays in in a responsible way. And then the third one was like how we reinvent, right, how we have reinvent what's possible. That was said numerous times, and I think Gen AI kind of fits into almost all three of those categories. And you know, we saw a lot of opportunity, a lot of new changes with Gen AI that have come out of AWS. We saw a lot of changes with Gen AI that came out of Amazon Accelerate, and now we're starting to see some come out of Amazon ads and I'll you know it's cool, right, we can take a product and we can turn that product into a full lifestyle image. And I think it's if you can just start to kind of think about where the possibilities go from there and what else brands can do and how we can enable that, either with what Amazon ads is doing or with what our partners are doing right, because it doesn't always have to be invented by us at Amazon it's really making it easier for brands to be able to take advantage of this technology that maybe was a little expensive or time consuming or difficult to use, and now it's all done with prompts and it's really simple and easy and that's really cool yeah. Bradley Sutton: Now, what about some of the other announcements? Say you have any. You know things that stick out that you're especially excited for. Jeff: Yeah, I think that what we're doing I mentioned it during our opening segment but Sponsored TV, I think is a really cool one and you know, in short, it's democratizing the ability for brands to be able to place ads into our streaming portfolio right so across Prime Video, free V and all the other channels that we have that I can't even remember them all because I'm supposed to think so quickly and I think that's really cool. And again, like there's no budget for that, you do have to have the creative, but Amazon has services that can help you make that creative or there's third parties that can help you make that creative. And I thought that was a really exciting announcement that was made, you know, on the heels of the announcement that was made a month ago. It was kind of reinforced about like what's happening with Prime Video and it moving to an ad supported network, creating a ton of, you know, new inventory for brands to begin to explore, and that's really super exciting as we start to go into it. And then there was like a bunch around ad tech and like what's happening around measurement and I know, like from you know, we're all near and dear to this idea that measurement is critical to our overall success and new metrics that are being released, making it available to understand how new to brand customers are impacting the business, and I think those are all really important for us to be thinking about because we have to close the loop. As advertisers and as we move to this cookie-less world right, it's signs point to it happening in 2024, we have to find ways to be able to close the funnel and understand how our ads are working, and Amazon's working really hard to help brands be able to do that, both within our suite and also when you're outside of our suite. Anne: Yeah, you mentioned the new. New to brand metrics, new to brand consideration metrics, I think is what we're calling them. Can you walk our listeners through what those really are? Jeff: Well, when you're looking at new to brand, right from like a super high level, new to brand is starting to give you this metric that's beyond ROAS, and it's starting to allow brands to look at who was not buying their brand within the last 12 months. Who's now buying their brand, and there's a suite of metrics now that are available for you to be looking at so that, as you're looking at different inflection points of your advertising, you can start to actually dial down into what action you're looking for people to take. And I think that's what's really cool. And it's like this evolution and brands have to think through this evolution like one of the simplest ways to think of this, right for people who maybe, like this concept's a little far for them. One of the simplest ways to think of this is around this idea that, like, if you're trying to get more awareness of your product, when you're looking at a video, you don't want to just see video views, you want to see how long they've been watching the video, and so you might start optimizing your campaign based on video length, how many people get to a half the video or three quarters of the video. And so, when you start to get into the new to brand type of metrics, you're actually saying, okay, I want incremental growth and by definition is, you know, sales you wouldn't have had before. One of the best ways to measure that is by people who are new to your brand, and so by having multiple metrics now to be able to understand how those are being impacted, you can now go back into tools like AMC and see how that funnel is working and which ones are driving the actual you know points that you want to drive and that that's really cool, right, it's, it's very excited about. Anne: I'm very excited too, yeah. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, all right. Last question for you know maybe not something that was released here at Unbox, but you know you're very active on LinkedIn. You see what people are posting about. You know I'm sure you look at metrics about what advertisers are using. Is there something in Amazon advertising that you feel is is kind of being slept on or not enough people are talking about it, that you think more people should be using it? Jeff: I mean more people should be using Helium 10 and Pacvue. Bradley Sutton: That goes without saying. Jeff: Okay, besides that, I think that you know, bradley, you and I get asked this question a lot, right? And? And our answer is always it depends. And I think that, instead of like saying, like this is a tool that you should be using or this is a a, an advertising function, you should be trying, I think that advertisers need to be open to the idea of test and learn, and I think the more you can train your mental model to work in a test and learn type of environment, the more open you are to change, because the only thing that's constant is going to be change. Right, and you started by saying like, where this industry was years ago when we both started, think about all the change that's happened and all the change that's occurred, and the brands that have not just survived but thrived through that are brands that have taken advantage of new opportunities, have invested by testing and learning and have then double down on the things that we're working. And I don't mean to oversimplify it, right, but it's not a very specific answer of like, use helium tens tool for keyword, blah, blah, blah, but it's like that's just one piece that you then use to implement the strategy. So work backwards. What's your goal. How are you gonna get there? And then figure out what tools you need to help you scale. Bradley Sutton: Awesome. All right, well, jeff. Thank you so much for joining us. We've been trying to get you on the podcast for like two years. I'm happy it finally happened and we'll definitely be keeping in touch. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys. All right, next up, we've got Kelly here. Now, Kelly, can you go ahead and introduce yourself? Tell us what you do at Amazon. Kelly: Absolutely so, Kelly McClain. I lead our demand side platform at Amazon, so we call it ADSP, and excited to be here. Bradley Sutton: Thank you for the time. Awesome, Awesome. Now you were, you know. Just saw you on stage a few minutes ago. What were your big reveals of the day? Kelly: Yeah, really good question. So I think if, if you think about Amazon ads and kind of where we've, where we've been and where we're going, we've really continued to make a lot of progress on on how, what we've been building a lot of our goals. We're focused a lot on interoperability with our ad tech solutions, so making it easier to use. We're focused a lot on performance improvements and then again, all of this is underpinned by making sure that we're putting privacy at the core of everything that we're doing, and so, with that in mind, we've been kind of launching this week in particular, a lot of different updates around, as you think about planning, activating and measuring, right. So within planning, we were launching Cross Channel Planner, which is a new way for you to really think about full, full funnel planning. We announced Amazon Publisher Cloud, which is the new clean room technology for publishers, which we're really excited about. We've been making a lot of performance improvements to the demand side platform, both with the user interface as well as the backend performance, and then we've also been been launching a lot more on our measurement capabilities, right, so making sure that marketers are getting the insights real time, making it a lot easier for them to kind of understand. You know how they should be looking at performance and where they should be making future investments. So we're excited about it. It's going to be a really fun week. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, awesome. We have our resident DSP nerd here, Ann, so she's going to go ahead and ask have some follow up. Anne: Definitely. Amazon Publisher Cloud was announced today, which is a big step for your publishing partners, obviously. Do you see any benefit for advertisers with this release? Kelly: Yes, definitely, and you know, I think to your point. I mean we've had, if you think about kind of clean room technology, right, really starting with cloud solutions. Then Amazon marketers cloud right thinking for marketers on how we can help support them. And Amazon publisher cloud it's going to be a mouthful after I'm speaking all morning. So excuse me, but you know that's really about a solution for publishers, right, giving them much more of the ability to pair any unique insights that they have right Demographics that they might know, of course, with folks who are coming to their site and then pairing that with Amazon Ads data. But the real core of that is, of course, providing opportunities for publishers but making it easier for them to connect with advertisers, right, advertisers. Often that you know there's so many different deal opportunities out there. A lot of the kind of deal process is very manual today and it's hard to discover the right deal and knowing which deal is right for you to reach your audience and so you know. A simple example, right is, if you're, let's say, you're a common website and you know the different demographics that are coming to your site every day, but by layering on Amazon audiences, you might realize, oh, I actually have pet food lovers who or sorry, pet food lovers- I have pet lovers who are coming to my site that I didn't realize, and so then that offers publishers the ability to maybe customize some unique deal opportunities to advertisers who might be trying to target pet lovers right, or specific brands who might be selling pet food, and it provides much more unique, differentiated opportunities, and we actually had a recent test with NBC Universal and they were able to offer three and a half times more reach than what they'd seen in the past, which is really exciting. So we see this as beneficial to both marketers and to publishers by really making it a lot more simple to connect with audiences. Bradley Sutton: At the end of the day, you know, pet food lovers are pets in about 10 years at Unbox. I predict like there's going to be some DSP where pets can actually base, you know, based on what they see on TV. Anne: They've already made more of the food, Exactly exactly, so we just launched something. Kelly: And if that's possible, maybe pets will be transformed into some sort of language that they can then activate. Anne: I think so, I think so. I don't even want to think about that. Kelly: I know, I never really thought about that? Anne: Yeah, that's very exciting. So, essentially for the advertisers listening, it's going to make your reach potentially broader but also more relevant, right? So the publishers have the ability to make targeting more relevant Absolutely Great. Another big announcement was the cross-channel planner. Yes, so can you walk us through how you think the ability to forecast reach will change how advertisers perform through their DSP program? Yeah, absolutely. Kelly: I mean, I think one of the biggest challenges today, as you all know right, is the fragmentation of channels and information and the overload of signals, right, and so that's where we're excited with Cross Channel Planner providing more of the ability to help marketers understand who they should be reaching right across the funnel and get much more information on how to kind of more efficiently drive their spend. In the past, we've launched Channel Planner, so that was our first product for mostly catered towards streaming TV, right, and how do you think about reach curves and how do you make sure that you're delivering against that for upfront pitches and so forth, and this is really kind of the next iteration to driving more efficient spend. So, ultimately, we think this is going to be kind of the next step of just providing much more granularity across all of the Amazon ads products on Amazon beyond Amazon, to make it easier to figure out. Okay, where should I be allocating my budget in the best way possible? We had a baby brand who actually was reaching audiences and they activated. So they leveraged Cross Channel Planner, activated via the DSP, and then they used custom advertising to direct customers to their online store and actually had four and a half times click through rate and 11% increase in impurchase rate, which was pretty cool to see. So again, I think the ability to plan and then easily activate is something that we're really committed to and excited about. Anne: Do you think this will be applicable for advertisers who are advertising both on Amazon and off, so more so that third party placement this will help plan for that as well. Absolutely. Kelly: So Amazon is known for retail media and driving conversions in the Amazon store, and we've been making so many investments over the past several years to really drive much more full funnel solutions and making all of our solutions work for all types of advertisers whether you're an advertiser that sells on Amazon or not because we're really excited about the power of again combining Amazon signals with marketers, third party and third party signals in a way that you can actually drive conversions, drive reach and have more of a full funnel experience and conversation. And that's where our Amazon publisher direct team comes into play, where we have a lot of these relationships and can reach anyone across the internet. But we've also been investing in modeled audiences and the performance through the DSP, and so a lot of people are kind of thinking about the loss of cookies in a negative way. We actually see this as an opportunity. We see this as a way to really innovate and rethink how marketers can potentially reach people in a privacy, safe way. That also drives performance, and so this is why we've also been investing in our modeled audience solutions right so, especially as we think about driving sales or reach off of Amazon, and we've been seeing over 25% increase delivery with a lot of the solutions, as well as 12% less cost per click per impression, which I'm barely able to talk. I'm going to lose my voice by the end of this day. But so, yeah, I think all of these from again, the planning, how you can activate all of the performance improvements we've been doing within our DSP we're excited. We'll continue to help accelerate marketers across full funnel wherever they want to reach people, which we're thrilled about. Anne: Definitely the ever looming third party cookie deprecation. Yes, exactly. Kelly: Yeah, a lot of energy, but understandably, and I think it's the right thing for us to rethink how we can really connect marketers and people in the right way, moving forward. Anne: Agreed, agreed. Another thing that was mentioned was the bidding enhancements that are now going to be available through the DSP program. So, essentially, you pick a KPI and you let Amazon do all the bid optimization in order to get to that KPI. Do you think this is going to change costs for advertisers, like, will CPMs go down in highly competitive categories or go up because of this automation? Kelly: Good question and, being a DSP enthusiast, I'm sure you know that our system has been really hard to use in the past. We've heard feedback from customers and partners that it was very complex, and so we've really been. So this goal seeking bidder, as well as re-augmenting our interface so that it's much more anchored on goals, has been paramount. We want to make it easier to use the DSP. We want to understand what is your goal, what are you trying to do? What outcome are you trying to drive for your business? And we've been making a lot of user interface improvements. And then the goal seeking bidder, on the back end to your point, I'm not sure what it will do in terms of you know, I can't talk to overall pricing in the system, right, but what I can say is that we're already seeing, you know, up to 40% reduction in CPAs, where we're able to better optimize against a goal, and we're seeing marketers just really gravitate towards the ability to kind of have much more of a simple experience. But we also believe in control, and so I think that's one of the powers that we think the Demand side platform has is, if you want all of the customization, if you want the complexity, we have that right. You can really adjust whatever types of bids that you want. You can layer on various different types of audiences. You can play around with different creatives. You can, you know, make a ton of different ads to try and test and at the same time, if you want a more simple, easy experience, you know what your goal is. We're able to help optimize and provide recommendations on the best way to do that. So we see it as kind of a nice balance in providing marketers kind of that wide range of capabilities, because we think there's a lot of different discussions in the industry right now on what way folks are going to be going. Bradley Sutton: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for all you do at Amazon. We appreciate it. Kelly: Thank you for the partnership. Appreciate it, of course. Bradley Sutton: Thanks, thank you All right Now we've got Miranda. Miranda, this is our first time meeting you, so can you introduce yourself and tell us what your position is at Amazon? Miranda: Absolutely. I'm Miranda Chen. I'm the director of growth and modernization for Amazon Marketing Cloud, or AMC for short. I've been at Amazon for 11 and a half years now, live in the Bay Area and at AMC I lead several teams responsible for product and engineering, developing our audience activation capabilities, making AMC easier to use for more and more customers, as well as our go to market and customer enablement activities. Bradley Sutton: All right Now. We have a wide variety of listeners, anywhere from brand new people selling on Amazon to humongous billion dollar brands. Now, the billion dollar brands probably know all about AMC, but some of our newer ones might not understand that. Maybe there can feel like wait, marketing, stream, marketing, AMC, there's all these acronyms. So can you just give a quick, maybe 30 second, one minute introduction about what is AMC? Miranda: Yeah for sure. So Amazon Marketing Cloud, or AMC, is Amazon ads as clean room, so it's private and secure by design. Each advertiser has their own campaign signals of all their various Amazon ad spend within their particular instance. So we have signals from sponsored products, sponsored brands, streaming TV effectively like all of the actual campaign events and enables custom flexible analytics on those signals. And then it also enables advertisers to be able to upload their own first party signals or third party signals so you can think of, like product catalog, retail conversions, things like that, and so then you can generate really really flexible insights, typically using SQL, such as path to conversion, reach and frequency, overlap analysis and then actually take actions on them. Bradley Sutton: Cool, so most of our listeners probably weren't able to attend here at Unbox. What's the big release for your department here at Unbox? Miranda: Yeah, so we had a couple different releases specifically related to AMC that I can touch on. The first was AMC template analytics. So it takes some of our most popular queries, such as path to conversion, reach and frequency, and then allows users to be able to generate those insights without needing to touch any codes. So that's a pretty exciting development, particularly since we know that not everybody no SQL has taught themselves SQL overnight. And then the second one was AMC lookalike audiences. So we already have the capability where one can generate a custom audience based on specific parameters. So let's just say, an advertiser saw, wanted to create an audience of folks that had seen their detail page view or even added to cart but didn't actually activate and then wanted to drive better performance. They could create a particular, they could run a query, generate that insight and push that directly to the DSP. So that's one way. That's AMC rule based audiences. And then now we launched this enhanced capability for lookalike audiences. So it enables effectively exactly what it sounds like. So finding alike audiences based on that same seed, leveraging machine learning in a clean room capacity trained on Amazon, shopper and customer signals, but all still in a private and secure place. Bradley Sutton: All right, you're already starting talking technical terms that are over my head, so let me bring in the smart one of us. And to clean rooms. My room's not clean, I don't know. That's not what we're talking about here, but go ahead and please follow up and make me sound smart here. Anne: Yeah, of course. So I'd like to talk about lookalike audiences more specifically, because this is a way for brands to reach highly relevant, essentially new customers. So do you think this will change the way people are targeting that new to brand customer targeting incrementality? Miranda: Yeah, I mean we think it's going to be a great way for brands to be able to reach more and more shoppers. So, as I mentioned, the lookalike audiences are trained on based on deep, deep ML, based on lots of very, very, very good signals, and then the advertiser can actually leverage, can get to choose what's their specific seed for the audience, like what's the general size of the audience, based on their objective and then also the relevance. So I think it'll be a really key tool as a part of the marketer toolkit. Anne: Yeah, definitely. Do you think lookalike audiences are scalable for brands that maybe have lower purchase data or lower engagement data that are using AMC? Miranda: I think so. I think they're precisely like the brands that actually could benefit from it, right Because they have a small bit of deterministic signals that they actually want to be able to enhance. And then also because AMC is private and secure by design, as I mentioned, they can also choose to upload their own first party or third party signals and then create a seed based on that and then continue to go find additional customers that seem similar to that seed. Anne: Right, I love that you call it a seed, because it sounds like it will grow over time if you're utilizing these tactics, so that's a great way to phrase it. Miranda: Thanks, it didn't come up with it. Anne: Well, we'll give you credit anyways. So you talked about the AMC templatized analytics, right? Is this a way to make AMC more accessible and, if so, are the queries that are available through those templatized analytics? Will it grow over time? What's available through that? Miranda: Yeah, so we think it's a first step towards making AMC easier for more and more customers. So we don't have a specific timeline yet on additional templates, but it is something we'll be continuing to evaluate. We have been talking to different customers and internal teams about how we can also make AMC easier to use through point and click applications as well. We also work with dozens of partners that are making AMC easier to use, either through visualizations or through their own innovative dashboard. So I think through the combination of either homegrown or partner built capabilities, we'll be able to continue to bring AMC insights to more and more customers. Anne: Yeah, pacview is one of those partners. We do have an AMC dashboard Great, I think. Another question that's kind of just in general about AMC do you think there are any verticals or categories that benefit the most from this data, or that you've seen a lot of growth and success with using AMC? Miranda: Yeah, we think of AMC as equal opportunities. So we look at the data a lot. We're very, very data driven surprise, surprise at Amazon and what we've seen is that there's penetration for AMC across brands and partners and agencies as well as across all verticals. So we've seen, certainly, strength from brands that sell on the Amazon store, but also pretty strong results with entertainment, with automotive, financial services. So you can think of someone who's like automotive who might have a bunch of local dealerships. They want to be able to do more fine event grained analyses based on specific geos, and so something like AMC is perfect for that be able to do more precise measurements. So, yeah, certainly we think it's a great product for all, but it really depends on that particular advertiser's objective and then what are the types of signals that they want to bring in and what kind of insights they can generate. Anne: Definitely, it is flexible. Miranda: Exactly Infinite and flexible. Yes, Great. Anne: My last question is just a kind of a fun one. Do you have any specific query or an example of a query that you think was really innovative that's been pulled through AMC that you can recall? Miranda: I think it's probably a generic answer, but I think the Path to Conversion one is probably one of my favorites, just because it's the simplest. I think AMC was actually the first place where an advertiser could see all of their signals across all of the Amazon ad products, and so someone who was buying sponsored products and DSP might not have realized before that they actually were driving better results together, and so Path to Conversion, and actually be able to understand how those two products were interacting, for example, really brought a lot more power and insight, I think, to advertisers. Anne: So I don't think that's generic at all. I love that one too. Miranda: There's a reason. That's core kind of at the top of the instructional query library. Anne: Right. Miranda: Agreed, all right. Bradley Sutton: I have another question for you. I like asking stuff that maybe nobody else is going to ask. When you want to take off your Amazon hat and kick back with a hobby to kind of like balance work life, what's your go-to hobby? Miranda: Well, I have an almost four-year-old so she is probably my hobby in most of the time. I'm going to try and go do fun things on the weekend, whether it's exploring new coffee shops or going to find music. Bradley Sutton: The four-year-old is a coffee drinker, is she? Miranda: No, she's not, but she's an avid consumer of chocolate croissants, and so we sample baked goods in lots of different places. Then mom gets her coffee. I think that's probably it, but in my prior pre-kid years I did a lot more yoga and hiking and things like that. Bradley Sutton: So enjoy those years. You know, my kids are over 20 already, so I wish I had a four-year-old. I remember those days All right. Thank you so much for joining us and you educated me a lot. It sounds like Ann knows all about what you're talking about. It was like a different language to me, so I appreciate you educating us on IMC. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. Miranda: Thank you so much. Bradley Sutton: Alright, we've got Teresa here. Teresa, could you go ahead and introduce yourself? Teresa: Sure, I'm Teresa Uthralton. I'm the Director of Partner Development here at Amazon Ads. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, awesome. How long have you been here at Amazon? Teresa: I've been at Amazon for almost 10 years, so I'm approaching that red badge. For those of you that know our badging conventions, Nice, nice. Bradley Sutton: Now you're from here in New York. I've always been in New York, yep. So I'm going to start off with maybe the most important question of the day Julianne's Pizza in Brooklyn. Is that the best representation of New York pizza, or not? Teresa: Oh, that's tough. There's so many really good pizza places now I can't even keep up with them. There's so many. Bradley Sutton: Alright. Well, we're going to have to connect right after this, because I have two days left and I need to maximize my time here. Teresa: Yes, Alright now. Bradley Sutton: We're not here to talk about food here. Teresa: I recommend checking out Roberta's in Bushwick though. Bradley Sutton: Roberta's in Bushwick. I have not been there. Anne: Yes, I think you'll really enjoy that. Bradley Sutton: We're going to that one. Anne: Right now. Yeah, actually, cancel the interview. Let's go there, we go. Yes, of course. Bradley Sutton: Now Anne here is going to ask a lot of the more technical questions, especially those that have to do with enterprise. Now I'm here to represent, kind of like, the voice of the average Amazon seller, and you know, there's some people out there who might not fully know what Amazon marketing stream is first of all. So could you just go ahead and just kind of give a quick elevator pitch for what that is? Teresa: Sure. So Amazon marketing stream is a partner-facing product, and what it does is it provides really granular hourly signals on all our advertising metrics through the Amazon API, and what that means to a seller is that they will be able to get all sorts of insights about their business that normally they would not have known. Bradley Sutton: Okay, all right, I love that. Did you practice this? I didn't even tell you I was going to ask that. All right, cool, cool. How about rapid retail analytics, your other specialty? Teresa: I know I love rapid retail analytics, so Amazon marketing stream obviously totally focused on advertising signals. As we know, so much of what's exciting about Amazon ads is that you got online retail and digital advertising Right, and so rapid retail analytics provides that level of granularity on retail signals, and one of the reasons that's so exciting is that that data used to be available at a daily cadence with a 72-hour lag, so we literally it's almost near real time now, which is a really, really exciting development. Bradley Sutton: Okay, all right. Well, now that I got that out of the way, let me turn it over to the smart one of us too, and for some follow up questions. Anne: Yeah, so I kind of want to double click into Amazon marketing stream, specifically the fact that it was recently released for DSP or it's being extended to DSP. How do you think this will change the way advertisers manage their DSP campaigns now that they have that real time data that we were talking about? Teresa: Well, it's interesting. I think one of the things that I've learned is I've been humbled by our partner's creativity. Right, you know, I was just. I was just telling someone. I joined this team three weeks before Can last year and so I showed up at Can meeting all my partners for the first time, and we had just launched the first version of Amazon marketing stream and I was like this is the coolest product. But what really got me excited was it's a product that we developed based on the feedback we got from partners Like they, they have a seat at the table, they participate in all our betas and our product teams love them, right, because they get like this incredible, you know, they get their hands dirty and they come back and they're like these are the 27 things that are wrong and you need to fix right, which is if you're a product team, that's actually like really helpful, right, so, and what? The thing that's so interesting is like it launched and everyone loved it, but then people are like well, but it only has sponsored products. Right, like, I want more, I want more, I might want more. So I think what's exciting about having ADSP signals in there is that's going to unlock a whole bunch of opportunity around partners that are deep on ADSP Right. Definitely and I think you know, probably a few months from now, we'll have some really interesting case studies, success stories. There's really like almost no end to the creativity of our partners, which is really great because they're such awesome builders. Anne: I agree. I'm curious AMC they not AMS? AMC? I know they get our accurate, our Amazon accurate. I know, there's so many of them Also provides hour by hour data for both DSP and for sponsored ads. Prior to this, especially prior to AMC, but also prior to AMS, this wasn't available for advertisers, so you kind of had to guess when you were running, like day parting or anything along those lines. Do you think the release of the stream data for DSP will eliminate the need for the AMC hourly data? Teresa: Well, I think you got to go back to like what are the use cases that people use other product, right? I think, like what is great about Amazon marketing stream? Right, it's an aggregate, aggregate data pipe, if you think about it, right, and so ultimately that's going to help people build solutions that are evergreen. It's going to help people train AI models right, because how do you train AI models? You need, like, lots of granular signals, right? And whereas the Amazon marketing stream is really about very specific use cases around, like understanding the customer purchase path, understanding incrementality, understanding attribution, so I don't think it's like one or the other, I think it's very like use case specific. Anne: Right. That actually leads perfectly into my next question, which is how you see these two datasets working together with advertisers currently, or how you see in the future that they can work together. Teresa: Yeah. So I think, like what I think is really exciting about partner innovation is, ultimately, I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a marketer, right, like there's that whole age old question about, like I know half my advertising is working, but I don't know which half, and I think we're getting about as close as we're going to get probably in our lifetime, but we're on the cusp of that with a lot of these tools, and so I think the the part about Amazon marketing stream that I think is so exciting is that it will allow the kind of automation that makes brands so much smarter and helps them do more with less. Right, and we're seeing like especially like this year has been an uncertain economic climate for a lot of folks, right, and a lot of a lot of folks are trying to figure out like my budget has been cut or my budget is capped, but I'm being asked to drive more growth Right, and I think, like partners have been able to deliver solutions based on Amazon marketing stream and rapid retail analytics that have really enabled that Awesome. Bradley Sutton: And you had a last question. Anne: I did. It's a fun one. What's your favorite thing about being at conferences like unboxed? Teresa: Oh, it's meeting my partners. You know, I learn so much from from meeting with partners, right, like I said, it's very humbling. The innovation, the creativity, what they teach us about our customers, what they teach us about our products and it's such an incredible learning experience is so energizing. Were you at our our cocktail party last night? Anne: No. Bradley Sutton: I was not. Anne: We had a lot of cocktail parties. I'm sure it was very. Teresa: That was like such a fun buzzing party and I got to meet partners from all over the world. At our award ceremony on Monday we met partners that came from Delhi and it was just really, really exciting. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, all right, well, thank you so much for coming on the show and we appreciate all that you do at Amazon. Teresa: Thank you, thanks guys. Bradley Sutton: All right, we've got Ruslana here. Ruslana, welcome to the show. Ruslana: Thank you, Bradley and Anne, for having me. Bradley Sutton: Are you based here in? Ruslana: New York no, I'm based in Seattle. Bradley Sutton: Seattle. Okay, Seattle was just there for accelerate, lots of rain, but I like. I like Seattle weather a lot. Quick question for you, first of all just how long have you been at Amazon and what is your title there? Ruslana: I'm a vice president of sponsored brands display in TV advertising and I just celebrated my 10 year anniversary Last week awesome, congrats, congrats. Bradley Sutton: now we're gonna go into like what you announced today, but you know something while you were on stage, you also referred to something that was, you know, launched a little bit ago. We're how, now you know, sponsored products can show up on websites like Pinterest and things like that, and one thing that was I have a bad memory, but it was new to me, maybe I knew about it, I guess, didn't know was like it's not just a product that's gonna display, but it'll also show, I believe, like the reviews count and even the shipping time did I, did I hear that right. Ruslana: Well, with sponsor products, our goal is to deliver the same value that Advertisers are getting today by having sponsored products was an Amazon store and some of the critical sort of trusted Amazon attributes, such as reviews, pricing information, as well as Prime delivery promise, are essential elements To helping customers make decisions and actually purchase. So yes you are, you got it right at that. Sponsor products will be containing Kind of product level or Amazon key, amazon trusted information Within these new and exclusive placements across some of these sides to help our advertisers to really go quickly and with ease from discovering something or exploring something to actually purchasing awesome, awesome. Bradley Sutton: That's been. That's been out for a while, but today, when you're on stage, you announce something brand new, and that was sponsored TV. So just give us maybe a quick 30 second, one minute overview of what that is, and Anne has some follow-up questions on that. Ruslana: Well, we see a sponsored TV, tv advertising as a whole, as a critical element of brand-building strategy. That should not be something that Brand cannot do. Any brand of any science should be able to tap into this opportunity and reach these engaged audiences on a big screen In the living room, and so sponsored TV is aiming to accomplish just that. We have worked very closely with our brands and our customers and Backwards from them, to understand what their key pain points have been and why they have not potentially used TV more actively Was in their overall brand-building strategy and, as a result, launch sponsored TV. I'm trying to eliminate three main pain points no guarantee commitments, no spend, minimum creative support and, lastly, access to first-party Amazon, first-party signals. Even when you advertise in TV, powered my machine learning and Right measurement so that advertise and send value, because what we've learned is spend is intimidating, a Lack of the right creative or ability to create the right credit. Just knowing what resonates on such a screen is Hard and intimidating and, lastly, just understanding the value that TV delivers for these brands was difficult. And so, given those three main pain points, that's there. That's why we're sponsored TV. I think to wrap like there is another element right. We at Amazon, we very custom obsessed and in this instance, we have two customers right. We have brands, and we just talked about the value we deliver for the brands, but there's also another key customer, which is the viewers, and for viewers, this is an opportunity to discover diverse collection of brands and products in places where they choose to spend their time. Bradley Sutton: Okay, now I'm just wondering where, like? What kind of placements are these? Are these like, like, like trailers that come up, or are there just actual, you know, banner ads that might pop up while you're watching a TV show? Ruslana: Oh, this is a TV advertising we're talking about, so they are video, so this is not this not sponsored display. Jeff: Yeah. Ruslana: This is video ads and they sponsor TV. Today service was in freebie content. Like I don't know if any of you watch freebie, I do. I love certain shows there, so big fan. So there is freebie content. There is streaming. Do you stream? Do you twitch? Bradley Sutton: Yes. Ruslana: Okay. Well, when you twitch during live streams, that could be. Another opportunity was in. Bradley Sutton: There might be people watch watching this right now on our rebroadcasts of this. Ruslana: People that twitch. This is where the ads would show. And then, lastly, was in a fire TV apps. Bradley Sutton: Okay, excellent yeah. Anne: So it was mentioned that the goal of this campaign, or at least one of the goals, is to make it more accessible to Advertisers who have lower budgets, don't necessarily want to deal with spend minimums etc. Do you feel like there's a lower level of budget sufficiency for running these campaigns, or can it be tested with a small amount of money? Ruslana: Well, we, as I said earlier, right customer obsessed, working back, working backwards from our brands and working backwards for them. I'm really observed that they do want to be able to engage with this audience. Why wouldn't you like if you launched a product that is net new, delightful, on the market? Why wouldn't you want to tell? Like you know, I talked on my keynote about hex glad. I don't know if you don't know, if you have it in your kitchen, but if you don't, I highly recommend. I discovered through our sponsor TV offering the brand and I love the non-stick and also non scratch. Bradley Sutton: Oh no, you had me out when you showed part of the video where it flipped over and nothing Was coming on. Anne: I like that. Ruslana: Very impressive and so at the end of the day, like that is the brand that I'm delighted to cook with every day, and I like my eggs for breakfast. Doesn't matter if it's Monday or Tuesday, Wednesday or Sunday, so in at the end of the day, I think these are the type of brands. They want to engage with the right audience at the right time, and I think this is the right time. Anne: Great. Can you walk us through some of the targeting that will be available with this type of advertising? Most of sponsored ads is keyword basis. That going to be the truth for Sponsored TV, or is it going to be more signal-based behavioral audiences? Ruslana: Well, we always try to help our brands reach the right audiences. So let me Maybe adjust one statement here Most of sponsor brands is not keyword based sponsored products. Keyword based sponsored Products is keywords based. Sponsor brands has keywords Elements in their way and how you express intent. Sponsored display doesn't have that way to express intent. But our aim is to always work with our brands and help them, give them the right tools to express the intent in the best possible way so we can deliver their message and their story in the right place at the right time. So in the case of sponsored TV, the advertisers could use both sort of category based interests and as well as Genre based interest. Bradley Sutton: I've got a spooky brand on Amazon, so like come Halloween season gonna be Maybe throwing some ads on some spooky Halloween shows or horror show. Anne: Perfect, I think we have time for one more question. So I'm curious how do you recommend brands measure success with these campaigns? Do you have specific KPIs that you think you know appropriately measure the success for sponsored TV or anything along those lines? Ruslana: So they reach. Traditional metrics are available similarly how they would be available for any other TV offerings, but in addition, we are sharing branded searches as well as detail page and store page Traffic, and so that is a starting point for the offering. We will continue evolving our metrics and help brands understand the value they're getting out of their sponsored TV offering Wonderful. Bradley Sutton: Thank you so much for joining us today. Ruslana: Thank you for having me and in Bradley.

The stage is set, the mic is on, and the cue is yours. In this episode, stand-up comic and voice actor Tom Sawyer shares his golden nuggets for aspiring voice talents hoping to benefit from the power of comedy. From the importance of having fun in the booth to taking a well-deserved break, and the power of belief in oneself, Tom is a reservoir of invaluable insights. We talk about standing out in a sea of talents, catching the ears of the right casting person, and the art of continuous learning. But remember, feedback is the breakfast of champions, and as Tom says, it's all about enhancing your performance. Get ready, it's showtime! About Tom   Tom Sawyer ran lengendary San Francisco comedy club, Cobb's for over 30 years. After stepping away from the comedy business, Tom was encouraged to explore voice acting by after famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Alazraqui (Rocco's Modern World, the Taco Bell Chihuahua) who knew Tom was an excellent celebrity impersonator. Tom signed with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in Los Angeles in 2017, and the rest is history. https://kitcaster.com/tom-sawyer/ 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Gangusa.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and today I am super excited to be here with very special guest actor, comedian, entrepreneur oh my God, the list goes on Tom Sawyer. Tom ran the legendary San Francisco Comedy Club Cubs for over 30 years booking legendary greats, and this list just goes on and on, but I'll give you just a few of them Jerry Seinfeld, dana Carvey, Bob Saget, Jim Carrey, Rita Rudner, Joe Rogan, Sarah Silverman and the list just goes on. He stayed on as a booker until 2012 and then ultimately stepped away from the comedy business. After that, he was encouraged to explore voice acting by famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Ellsrocki, a good friend of his. He signed on with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in LA in 2017, and the rest, they say, is history.  But boy, we've got a lot of history I'd like to talk to you about, tom. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. So, gosh, there's so many things I want to start with. I mean the first tell. You have such a large history of comedy, so, of course, I'm sure a very common question you get asked is were you a funny kid, or have you always loved comedy? What is it that drew you to comedy?  0:01:44 - Tom Well, yeah, I was the kid in the back of the class making all the other kids laugh, so that was where I started and I always did impressions. So when I was a kid I was doing Don Adams from Get Smart and Ed Sullivan and Richard Nixon and you know, it's probably a little weird seeing an eight-year-old doing Richard Nixon but that's what I was doing. When I was very young I realized I could do voices and never stopped and that's what kind of led me to voiceover when I got out of the comedy club business.  0:02:15 - Anne But boy, there was a long history of being in the comedy business. I label you as entrepreneur 20 times over because I think just following that passion of yours and then ultimately opening up a club that literally was just famed and just housing some of the comedy greats. Tell me a little bit about that history. I mean, that is just so, so fun and impressive.  0:02:36 - Tom Yeah, actually, I went to San Francisco to become a stand-up comic and there were all these clubs, the Punchline and the Holy City Zoo and the other cafe. They were very packed all the time and getting stage time there was next to impossible. Or you'd get on at one o'clock in the morning in front of a very tired, very small, very drunk audience. And then there was this little.  0:02:55 - Anne Sometimes that helps, I'm not sure Mostly doesn't, oh okay.  0:03:00 - Tom But there was this little club in the Marina District in San Francisco called Cobb's Pub and they were trying to do comedy there and there was no audience, but there was stage time. You could get on stage there. In fact, sometimes you couldn't get off stage because there was no one there to take over, so you had to stretch, stretch and that was terrifying sometimes. Especially if you're the third or fourth comic going, hey, where are you from? And the audience goes we all know where we're from, so stop asking.  0:03:29 - Anne That's so funny. I just wanted to say that a lot of my actor friends I feel like being on that comedy stage is like a rite of passage almost, and it's probably I would think one of the toughest things to do is to stand on stage like that and try to make people laugh. I mean, that's just to me it's comedy without a net. Yeah, exactly.  0:03:48 - Tom And the thing is it's like you're stuck there, literally. You have an allotted time that you have to perform and they give you 10 minutes. You have to do 10 minutes, doesn't matter if it's horrible right from the word jump, you're on stage for those 10 minutes. That's the time you have to do and that's one of the things you learn right away is like if you get on stage early.  you're not going to get back on stage. So you have to go through the rite of passage of bombing, and I've seen comics bomb from Paula Poundstone, kevin Meany, kevin Nealon, the list goes on and on. Every comic has bombed. But even later on you get in front of an audience that just doesn't dig you.  0:04:27 - Anne And again, nowhere to go. You can't run off the stage.  0:04:31 - Tom You're mean, I get that.  0:04:38 - Anne And it's funny because I literally I just went to a comedy club a couple of weeks ago and I was thinking about that, like what do you do? I mean, they are there until the next comedian is called on stage. And it feels interesting as being a part of the audience, because a lot of times I think, as the audience, you are part of maybe not part of the act, but it's very interactive, it's very back and forth and engaging because, of course, you're trying to make us laugh.  0:05:02 - Tom Yeah, you have to communicate to the audience without really engaging the audience, because you're the boss on stage, you're kind of like the crowd master and you're crowd control and entertainment at the same time. And because comedy, some people feel like, oh, I'm going to be as funny as the comic.  0:05:22 - Anne And that's when things get really sideways.  0:05:24 - Tom You're there to be entertained. Sit back, relax and leave the talking or the driving to the person with the microphone.  So you got some stage time on Cobbs and and then I realized that I just kept seeing these shows that weren't very good. The guy who was booking the club at the time wasn't doing a great job, and I was a big fan of stand up as well. So I started thinking about what I would do instead, and then I started telling the owner at the time first owner of Cobbs. I was telling him you know, here's what I would do differently, and then I could tell him at the beginning of the show how the show was going to fail. And then he was started realizing that everything I was saying was happening and he went what do I get to lose? We're doing horrible business. And so he gave me the job of booking and from there I started getting the people I really, really like to perform and it started going great and we went from being like about 20% capacity to 90% capacity in about a year.  0:06:23 - Anne So let me ask you a question that, to me, is very interesting how do you get, at the time, the talents that you booked? I mean, they were big names. Were they big names then? And how did you get them to book? I mean, that's a skill, right? It's something that we do in our businesses every day, right? We've got to try to get clients to like us and to work with us. So how did you do that? Did you have a secret?  0:06:42 - Tom Yeah, my secret was I paid really well.  0:06:45 - Anne Okay, okay, that's a good piece.  0:06:48 - Tom My biggest competition, which was twice the size of our club. We were out paying that Because we decided that the most important thing was getting butts in the chairs and the only way to do that was having acts that actually brought an audience. So the only way to do that was to offer these guys more of an opportunity to make more money. So we would give them a percentage of the door and say, hey, the more people come to see you, the more you're gonna make. And because of that we had people that would call up and go, hey, I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show in six weeks with Johnny Carson, do you have anything open? And I would move stuff around and get them in there and then I would get a Tonight Show plug or a Letterman plug or Arsenio Hall. At the time and that was kind of my thing was I'm gonna pay everybody. Really well, so everybody could. Percentage of the door.  In the early days before all the big agencies came in, sure, and remember this was at a time where there were just like a couple agencies doing personal appearances for comedians. Comedians were pretty much on their own. They were doing their business themselves. So if I wanted Bob Sagan, I'd call Bob Sagan, so I get his number from another comic and everybody was kind of looking for each other and I would bring one comic in. They'd go, hey, you should book these guys. And I go, okay, great, and call them up. And they'd go, right, when can you give them me a date? And I'd give them a date. Plus, we flew people up and we put them up in the hotels. So we didn't personally make a ton of money. That wasn't my thing. My thing was having the best shows I could possibly have and making a name right.  And making a name for the club?  0:08:24 - Anne Absolutely, and that's interesting because, again, I like to talk about the entrepreneurial business side of what we do as creatives and freelancers, and there's a lot of thinking outside the box and also recognizing the value of the talent, that if you wanna put out great work, then you wanna hire a talent that's amazing and great and pay them fairly and absolutely. And so talk to me a little bit about the networking aspect. I mean, the cash is a good draw, but you also had to communicate effectively, I would say, to really book these talent.  0:08:58 - Tom Well, the thing that separated me from everybody else, besides being generous with the money that was brought in, was that I knew what they were going through, no matter what it was going on on stage. If they were dealing with a heckler, I'd gone through that as a comedian. If they were bombing, I knew that pain, so I could empathize with them, I could be their counselor, I could give them advice. I looked at it like I wasn't really a good comedian, and mainly that was because I wasn't true to who I am personally. So my mantra after that was be yourself.  0:09:32 - Anne I love that.  0:09:33 - Tom Yeah, that's who I wasn't. I was trying to fit in and have everybody like me and that really affected the quality of my stand up because I wasn't being true to me. So that was my mantra to everybody be yourself. Because nobody can take that away from you.  0:09:49 - Anne That's so interesting because I never ventured into comedy myself. However, I find that people find me the most funny when I am being my dorky self and I'm making mistakes and I'm just being oops, sorry, and I think in voiceover as well. I wanna talk more about that. I think it's all about being authentic and being yourself and that's really, I think, what connects you to people and engages you to people and endears you to people.  0:10:14 - Tom Yeah, I think it's really important when you get a job, and especially if it's somebody you want to get more bookings from play around, have fun. I mean, I booked a video game and the first thing we did we went through several of the lines I had to do and then we went through all those and I just did just the lines, basically no acting or anything like that and they went. Yep, that's about it. I went great, thank you.  0:10:33 - Anne Love it, love it, bye, bye.  0:10:35 - Tom So everybody started laughing. It loosens everybody up and that's really it's just. Don't be a pain on the ass. Realize that you're always learning. They're always learning. Everybody's a professional too, and so be courteous and nice and smart and be entertaining. You are the talent, so show some talent as a professional as well.  0:10:53 - Anne Show some talent. I love that. So talk about in the transition while booking talent. So you did that for a very long time, I mean 30 years, and so, wow, I mean, was there a point? I mean, were you just so busy for 30 years Did you think about voiceover? Was that a thought in your head or something that you would do, or you just were completely. You loved running the club and booking talent.  0:11:18 - Tom Prior to moving to San Francisco, I lived in Florida, lived in Sarasota, Florida, and I did a lot of theater there.  That's why, I fell in love with theater and acting. You know, I always thought like, oh, stand up might be a good gateway to getting into acting, but then I got into the business end of it. So I didn't really think about it until I got out and I didn't know what I was gonna do. And I was talking to Carlos and he said dude, you do so many voices and stuff. You'd be great at voice acting.  Cause I've always done impressions, never stopped doing impressions. In fact I would teach other people like Kevin Pollack or something, if they had an oppression and they couldn't figure it quite out. They were doing it but they weren't quite right. We'd kind of jam and help them get there, or they would help me get there and we'd all do our really weird outside the box impersonations. You'd have to spend five minutes explaining who that guy is Right right right.  0:12:07 - Anne So you can't do that one.  0:12:09 - Tom But for comics, we love doing those, especially impersonators, impressionists, we love doing those for other impersonators. It was kind of like our jazz moment, you know, where you get to jam behind the scenes with another musician.  0:12:20 - Anne Absolutely.  0:12:21 - Tom So Frank Calliendo, I had the club, and Dana Carvey, of course, was the master of the not perfect impression, but getting the perfect funny it didn't matter, that's what his genius is. Bye, you know, is finding the perfect funny to any voice. And then Tom Kenny played. The club started at Cobbs as well Again, the guy who did so many crazy voices. It was another inspiration for me to move there, and every once in a while I talked to him, cause I'll get a audition for something that I know is directing or in, so I go heads up and he's going dude.  I have nothing to do with casting, you know sometimes they cast people and I'm scratching my head. So yeah, but I'll put in a good word for you.  0:12:58 - Anne So Well, hey again, networking totally helps. Now comedy skill. I think comedy is a skill and art form. What are your thoughts on that?  0:13:07 - Tom I mean cause, oh, absolutely.  0:13:08 - Anne Yeah, it's not something that I can go on a stage and execute.  0:13:11 - Tom Yeah, it's like anything else I personally believe.  my philosophy is we all have a gift somewhere along the line. We might not be in a position ever to know what that gift is, but we all have a gift and sometimes there are people out there have more than a couple fair, but there's also people who just don't ever find theirs. And I think that the idea is you know to try to discover who you are and your strengths, weaknesses. Stay away from those weaknesses and hurdle towards your strengths, you know, and don't get locked up into one thing to always be on the road to discovery.  0:13:42 - Anne I guess I want to ask you first of all about once you got into voice acting and then was it like you were always wanting to book a certain genre because you've had lots of characters inside of you that wanted to come out? Or did you find any of the genres outside of character Interesting, because I'm a believer that you're a character in just about everything you do, even if you're doing e-learning.  0:14:05 - Tom Yeah, I always try to find a person, even when it's just one of those hey, you're a dad, or hey, you're a regular guy. Or I just had an audition yesterday where you're just a regular father, you know it's regular. But the line said something else, you know. So I gave one as what they were saying and then one. That's what I felt the lines were doing. It was a subtle difference, but it was a difference that maybe whoever put this together wants to see. If somebody figured it out, or they didn't know that's where they were going and they don't know. Sometimes they don't even know until they hear it.  So give them what you think they want, and then give them what they say they want.  0:14:39 - Anne So interesting. I guess I would talk to you then about writing right, especially now that you've transitioned in voice acting and you're given a script right, or you're given an audition and finding the humor. Sometimes there's subtleties in that humor, sometimes it's obvious. Are there telltale signs to look out for? And then, once you do see it, is there a specific way that you feel it should be performed? Should it be performed in the obvious way? Or maybe, if you wanna capture the ear of the casting director, you do something different?  0:15:08 - Tom Well, I think you know what you do with a couple takes is you do the one that's on the page and then you do the one that where you think they go or where you can go with it to show what you can bring to the party. I always like to find the humor in something, especially if it says it's humorous, you know, and then play around with it and add a little bit, do a little improv with it, find a little spontaneity into there, or sometimes I'll even rewrite a line, cause I think it's kind of like flat, so I'll make it a little funnier. A punchier.  0:15:36 - Anne Okay, now that gives me a segue into a question In terms of with the script, in terms of improv right For an audition, are you improving in the audition and or improving the line, and at what point do you feel that people may go too far if you're completely rewriting, or do you think that's offensive maybe?  0:15:54 - Tom I think you have to be pretty subtle in rewriting. I think you do run the risk of people going why do I bother sending you a script? Cause you're adding all this stuff to it. So you pick and choose your moments. You know I've done that before, I've added jokes. But I'll listen to it again and go okay, that's a little too much. Plus, I want to have them. I don't want the person thinking after the third one, is he gonna go back to the script or what you know. So I wanna pick and choose my moments and make sure that I think of the funniest, the ones that have the most oomph. You want them to land, and so era on the side of too few than too many.  0:16:33 - Anne Let's talk about character development for you, especially because you're an impressionist. So how can you take, let's say, and you don't necessarily wanna have a character that's just after a particular person, but you wanna develop it into your own character. Is there a formula or a process for that, in terms of developing new characters?  0:16:51 - Tom Well, I have a book of all the impersonations I do, well, a book with the impersonations I do. And then I have like one that's like the ones I do pretty right on, and the ones I do that are just kind of soft. I don't really have it down, but that's great because it's a character.  0:17:07 - Anne Do you have a number for that? Somebody wants to have how many characters in their arsenal, how many to build off of.  0:17:13 - Tom Every day that I can figure out how to do a different celebrity or something like that. I write it down in the book Cause it comes to you sometimes. I mean, when I figured out how to do Robin Williams, it just was an accident. It's one of those things where you find a word and all of a sudden. Then you find a place in your throat and you're doing it and you can't stop.  0:17:32 - Anne It's crazy so it just never stops. I love it, I love it.  0:17:37 - Tom So one day I did Robin for Robin and that didn't go so well, apparently I didn't know he doesn't like his voice, apparently being impersonated. You didn't like that. No, it's really a very awkward Cause. I thought it'd be a lot of fun.  0:17:50 - Anne Yeah, and that's interesting because I'm curious about that. You know, celebrities like their voices impersonated, or now we've got a whole another, a whole another digital thing to be thinking about, when voices might be impersonated or turned into right With synthetic voices. But that might be another podcast.  0:18:10 - Tom That's a little scary.  0:18:11 - Anne That's a scary one, absolutely.  0:18:13 - Tom The thing about it is is like the flaws, like, let's say, go back to Dana Carvey, cause again there aren't many that he does right on, he'll leave me be the first to admit it. He's not like somebody like Frank Caliendo, who's just like amazing. He's verbatim, you can hear the voice. He's somebody who can do a sound alike. Dana could never do a sound alike, but he gets people's caricature down. That's the thing is it's like, and that's kind of what makes it funny is the imperfections is going up, finding those words.  I just, you know, I used to do Bruce Stern and a lot of people kind of forgot who he was, and then one day I just was doing it for somebody to just start laughing Cause they didn't even remember who that Bruce Stern was. But it's just his voice is funny, you know, cause he has a kind of voice like that and it's very inquisitive either. Everything goes up at the end Doesn't make a darn gosh darn bit of difference, and not sometimes he gets crazy. But and so you find those little imperfections actually make a character and make it really funny. That's what I like to do. You know, I did a animation pilot and it was like a hippie character and I was going through a bunch of voices with a writer cause they booked me and they didn't feel like they wanted to do something different with it. They said what can you do? And I was going through my book and I started doing Nick Nolte and they loved it and then you ended up going with that over what they originally had, with me doing it.  0:19:37 - Anne So I love how you have a book with everything written down. Now, do you also have audio files that go along with that, so that you can help yourself get into words?  0:19:45 - Tom Yeah, I have one where it's all my impressions, so that way I can go back. And how do I do that? One Cause I don't practice them all the time. Cause.  0:19:54 - Anne I have life.  0:19:55 - Tom So, and I don't want to be walking around talking to myself, of course, of course. Man, it's got so many voices.  0:20:00 - Anne So are you writing down then the name and then you write down the qualities of the characteristics or how you get into it. Is it a kick phrase? Maybe that gets you into the character.  0:20:10 - Tom Well, there's certain words, for example, you know, I came up with for Christopher Walk and I came up with the word pantaloon being the perfect Christopher Walken word. I'm thinking cowbell but that's yeah, cause. Well, that's, this is before cowbell yeah, before cowbell.  0:20:26 - Anne But pantaloon automatically gets me there. I love it. I love it Cause I say it.  0:20:33 - Tom I can't help but do more. Christopher Walken, who doesn't like a nice pair of pantaloons?  0:20:43 - Anne I love it. I love it.  0:20:44 - Tom Cause you want your calves exposed. So yeah, and then with Kurt Douglas, it was horse, oh Horse, okay, I'm going to read my horse. If I say horse, I go into Kurt Douglas Well.  0:21:01 - Anne I think there's something always so obviously so entertaining, but something that just draws people to comedy. What are your thoughts about this crazy, chaotic world that we live in today, and where does comedy sit now, I mean, in terms of how important is it?  0:21:17 - Tom I think comedy is as important as it ever was. And it's in a weird place right now, cause I think a lot of people are reacting to people saying words and there's a lot of people getting offended easily and comedy is not for those folks that have thin skin, both sides of it.  I find it funny that I think a lot of comics right now have thin skin as far as getting some criticism back, cause it's also about growth. What was funny in 1970, if you listened to comedy in 1970 or the 80s, it's not as funny now. In some of it's just not funny at all. We grow, we expand, we move on, and to me, that's what's great about comedy is it's about adapting. You're always adapting. You're always growing, as you should be as a person. So to me, if you're moving the ball forward constantly in your life, you're gonna be a better person than you were 10 years ago. So why not take that to comedy? Absolutely, the things that were funny like 15, 20 years ago are real cringy right now, and it's not because they weren't funny back then. They were. It's the same reason I get upset with people who go back like 20 years and go. I can't believe you said that back then.  0:22:28 - Anne Well, back then that wasn't offensive.  0:22:30 - Tom Exactly, we didn't find that offensive back then. Now we've all grown up and we've all moved on a bit and we understand that's not the same. But don't punish me for something that was okay Back then. Mark Twain, who wrote a famous book about a guy named Tom Sawyer, had a lot of cringy stuff in his books. There's still masterworks of literature, but those were the times. We have to accept. That's where those books came and there were a reflection of those times. Same way we would stand up. So to me it's just about. Everybody just needs to grow up. Everybody needs to understand where everybody was back then and where they are now and be better for them.  0:23:06 - Anne Yeah, yeah. Do you find that you miss owning a comedy club or booking talent or having that in your life?  0:23:12 - Tom I miss working with young comics. That's the thing I miss the most and it was actually when I started. The last version of Cubs when it exists now, because it's a 400-seat room has really amazing acts, but they're much bigger acts and they generally bring their own acts with them, and comedians who can bring their own acts generally don't bring really really great acts because they don't want to have to work as hard. I would make comics work hard because I would have really good acts going on before them.  Sure, so they have to try to continually stand tall, so they had to keep their game. My thing was like Interesting strategy. I like that yeah yeah, absolutely Nobody could coast. And then later on it was comics they would bring in.  I didn't think they were as talented as some of the people I could book with these guys, and so I wasn't really working with the comics anymore as much as I used to, and so that's one of the things about smaller room is you can get to work with younger comics and you get to tell them the dos and the don'ts and hopefully guide them to a path where they can be their best selves on stage. Sure, that part I miss.  0:24:14 - Anne And actually, speaking of that, what sort of advice would you give to voice talent out there that want to continually up their game and stay on top of the voiceover game, because, boy, it's competitive out there, super competitive.  0:24:27 - Tom It's crazy, it's crazy.  0:24:29 - Anne Like just as I'm sure it was in comedy and being in the club. It's such a mental game a lot of the times too.  0:24:34 - Tom Yeah, the nice thing about voiceover having been a stage actor very early in my life is you don't see the person who you're auditioning for, so you don't see that look, as soon as you hit the stage, that you've already lost your audition. You're not the person they're looking for, and that's so disheartening sometimes so at least you go into every audition with this could?  0:24:56 - Anne be the one.  0:24:57 - Tom And I love auditioning, so I love going into another character or finding something I haven't found before, or even sometimes there's a couple of characters I do that I think, oh man, this one is definitely gonna find a home someplace. It's just a matter of getting in front of the right casting person hearing it. So I'll bring out those guys every now and then, when it's the right opportunity for those characters, cause they're like they're my buddies. I want them to succeed. Yeah, I think just have fun in the booth is the main thing, and if you need to take a break, tell your agent I need to take a break. I mean, I talked to other voice actors and it gets a little depressing. Everybody came in this business thinking that everybody always said I should be in voice acting and everybody always said this is what I should be doing and I did it and nothing's happening.  0:25:43 - Anne Yeah, what's your advice for that? Because that becomes like a mind game. It becomes like oh my God, I've done all this work, what else can I do? I mean, what would you suggest in terms of getting work? It seems like the question I get most often as a coach is like so all right, I've got this great demo now and had this great coaching, and so now, where's the work? How do I get the work? Or how do I stand out?  0:26:04 - Tom I think the thing about it is acting as a lottery. You're buying a lottery ticket is what you're doing. I mean, carlos Alice Rocky was a comic Lucky, had a job, state entertainment state creative, but it was getting the Taco Bell, chihuahua and all those people you auditioned from and he hit it, hit the lottery, you know so, and from there he's done so many other things. But when I say who Carlos Alice Rocky is, when I bring him up, I always go the Taco Bell, chihuahua guy and they go oh, I love that. So it's the same thing where you just go, my lottery ticket is gonna come and you're gonna believe in yourself.  When you believe in your talent and talk to other people in the business too. Just do classes I think it's still a good idea to do, just as even a workout session. Plus, you get some inspiration from other people who have a different style, maybe that you see something in yourself or you bring out something in yourself you didn't know was there. So I would say, take a class every now and then network with other people who just to have support, just so, hey, I'm here for you when you're down on yourself, in the same way that if I need somebody to talk to and say, hey, I'm really kind of wondering what the hell I'm doing here.  And they can talk you down from being sad or lift your spirits up and let you know you're really a talented person. That's why you got into this whole thing in the first place.  0:27:16 - Anne Yeah, I think that self-sabotage can happen to the best of us even.  0:27:20 - Tom And then sometimes you'll hear it in the reads. I mean, again, I'll go into a class and you can tell the person who's been beat down on pretty bad by themselves, mostly Cause do you have an agent? Yeah, do you have a demo? Yeah, well, you're doing all the right things and I think it's good to have an agent or two that are giving you good feedback or giving you feedback.  0:27:40 - Anne I was with an agency that way too many people.  0:27:43 - Tom The poop sticks agency you have 400 people that they represent and you just go. That's too many. I don't feel special when you're just going okay.  You got a demo, you're in. So I think, being with a smaller agency, that's a little more hands-on. Both my agents give me feedback every time, even if it's just a nice job. Yeah, and because of that I feel like I'm better for it, because I already know if I see a script, I know exactly what kind of read in the ballpark I need to be, so that's what I'm gonna get back. I'm at the point now where I really get back oh, you need to do this, this is too much, and something like that. So it's always I recognize what I'm working with right away. I do it, get it out, get the feedback, forget about it.  0:28:26 - Anne That's what you gotta do. I think a lot of people really crave feedback in this industry because we are just in our studios, kind of just talking into our little four padded walls, and so a lot of times it's hard when you don't get feedback and it's interesting.  0:28:40 - Tom Yeah, especially if you don't have a partner in a relationship, you know where you can at least go hey, honey, what do you think of this?  0:28:47 - Anne Yeah, you can bounce it off.  0:28:48 - Tom I don't bother my wife with everything, but every once in a while, you know, I go. You know, what do you think of this? Or she'll hear me and she'll go. I need to hear the whole thing. She'll hear me in my booth screaming, you know. And then now she has to hear all the stuff I did in that character.  0:29:04 - Anne I love what you said about well, at least when you're in front of a stage, I can, you can get that reaction from the audience. You know that, if you've bombed or not already, and the fact that when you're in your studio you actually use the fact that you're not in front of an audience as a creative kind of positive outlook, that you can be creative and not have to face that which is so interesting from, let's say, somebody that doesn't necessarily or hasn't started from being on stage. They might've worked a corporate job and now all of a sudden they're getting into character acting, and so they don't have that perspective. So I really like that perspective of taking the challenge and I think the creativity has to be in your brain, your imagination. You have to imagine that character in that scene, which is so difficult for some people. Do you have any tips on how to really create a scene realistically while you're sitting here in your studio?  0:29:53 - Tom Yeah, I think the most important thing, especially when you get those video games where it's like one line, one line, one line, one line, five, one lines and they're like hey, don't touch that rock and you're going. How are these people going to book somebody based on five lines that are no more than 10 words for the longest one?  and you're going, how am I gonna stand out in front of anybody? So you gotta kind of create a scene around those and those. I generally will write a bigger scene for the line and then because I'll have the line in there and I'll make sure that it doesn't bleed into the other words that I'm saying, but that gives me a little bit more emotional pop for that line.  0:30:35 - Anne Are you developing the characters that you're interacting with as well?  0:30:38 - Tom I know who I'm talking to. Yeah, so I might not have the character fully developed, but I know who I'm talking to.  0:30:44 - Anne Right, and what's happening in that scene? And what's happening, yeah, and you actually write that down.  0:30:48 - Tom I'll go on Word, I'll cut and paste the lines and then I'll put words around the line and highlight the line that is actually in it. So I have all the other words and a highlighted line to make sure I hit that one. But I know what's going on and I try to create more around it.  0:31:05 - Anne So how long would you say do you spend, let's say, analyzing and doing all that work? How long would you say you take for an audition to kind of do that creating the scene and writing that down before you go in and record?  0:31:17 - Tom It depends on my schedule and what I have to do and also how much I think something is really in my wheelhouse. I mean there's things you get where it's like I knock it out in 10 minutes because I really have a solid idea of what I'm gonna do with it and I go and do it and I listen to. It sounds good. With characters, though, with video games and animation, I really like to do as much as I possibly can. I remember I did this video game audition where the character was cockney. I called my dialect coach and we went through the whole thing together.  It was like a class for me. I thought this was a good opportunity to have a little class on doing a cockney accent and I said can I book our session with you? And we just worked on the script I was auditioning for because I really I loved it and I really wanted to nail it and, regardless, I got a class out of it. So it did two things for me helped me learn, and I put that learning to immediate use.  0:32:11 - Anne Absolutely absolutely.  0:32:13 - Tom And again, that's a really good thing to do is have a network of people, find a good dialect coach, find people that are teachers or coaches that you can work with, that you can go to and use them when you need, when you're stuck or when you just need something. Had a Pixar audition that I did and the character was obviously somebody from Eastern Europe and I had a friend who's from Ukraine and we went through the script and she helped me with some of the pronunciations and I didn't book it but I really felt confident sending it in.  0:32:45 - Anne I really felt like I nailed it Exactly. I love that because you've gotten the worth out of it, whether you booked it or not. So that's the other thing. So when you really are excited about something and you do all that work and you feel like you nailed the audition, but then you didn't book it, thoughts on how to stop that from getting you all upset and, oh my God, that's it.  0:33:03 - Tom Well, it's sort of like you still have to go. This is out of my control. I have no idea what the other person at the other end is going through what they've got in front of them. If they end up going with somebody that they've already booked for something and they can give them another character because union rules and it's like you did a really good job, maybe even better than that person but they're already booked and they don't have to pay another person to do that voice. They can do up to three voices and not get a penny more. So they go. Let's just give them that, so you don't know all the little things that transpire for somebody to get that part over you.  0:33:35 - Anne Yeah, and I think it's important for people to understand that it doesn't necessarily reflect on a poor performance or a poor audition.  0:33:42 - Tom No, my agent is a very funny woman and my auditions who I'm getting in front of have escalated. I'm doing more Disney Pixar auditions and stuff like that and she just goes. You're feeling upwardly.  0:33:53 - Anne There you go. I love that.  0:33:56 - Tom Which I thought was hilarious, because we always think we're failing. We're not. We're all doing the best we can and we're all doing great auditions. But because I'm doing so well in my auditions, other casting people are getting interested, so I am getting in front of people that I didn't get in front of, like four or five years ago.  0:34:12 - Anne Awesome, that's awesome. So even if you don't book the job, you could be making an impression on someone that can get you maybe the next job or the job after that.  0:34:21 - Tom That's the idea. They go well.  I really like that because you don't know, when I was booking COBS I would get DVDs and before that VHSs of comedians from around the country. We were very well known so I would get them from New York, boston, other parts of the country and they'd just pile up on my desk because it was excruciating for me at some times. So then at one point, when they were ready to fall over, I would just start watching them. In the beginning I would watch two or three minutes of somebody. Then it came down to just 30 seconds to a minute, because you know right away and that's how I'm sure it is for casting people.  0:34:56 - Anne You know right away if there's talent or if they were gonna be bookable absolutely or if they're right or wrong.  0:35:01 - Tom You might like them and you might wanna listen to the whole thing and you would go ah, they're just not quite right. I need a little bit of a younger voice. This is obviously somebody who's an older voice and I think it's really. I mean, I try to do what I can and have as much fun as I can, because there's gonna be probably 10 years down the road where this voice isn't gonna sound the same and I'll be doing grandpas and wizards.  0:35:22 - Anne So yeah, our voices do change as they age. I have experienced that myself. I certainly sound a whole lot different than I did 10 years ago. Well, well, this has been an amazing discussion, Tom. I so appreciate you taking the time and just dropping all these wonderful tips and tricks and words of wisdom for the boss listeners out there.  0:35:45 - Tom Yeah, yeah, have fun kids. That's the message.  0:35:47 - Anne There you go. I love that. So, bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect with amazing people like Tom. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:36:18 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  Transcribed by https://podium.page  

What would it look like if you could harness the energy of a conference and convert it into effectiveness? What would it feel like to be your own boss in the voiceover industry? Our esteemed guest, Tom Dheere, joins us as we unravel the answers to these thought-provoking questions. We share valuable insights on setting the right objectives, maximizing conference experiences, and the commitment required to become a full-time voice actor. Plus, we examine the liberating perspective of entrepreneurial freedom offered by the voiceover industry. 0:00:01 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the real boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and I am so happy to bring to this series Mr Tom Dheere. Thank you so much, tom, for joining me on this.   0:00:15 - Tom Yay, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. This is going to be great.   0:00:19 - Anne Oh, tom, first of all, it was so awesome to see you at the One Voice conference.   0:00:25 - Tom Yes, likewise.   0:00:27 - Anne I know we just had. You were just a guest on my podcast and, lo and behold, like two times I see you within the span of a month or two, which is really incredible, right?   Sometimes we have to go to conferences to just meet in person so whew, I was exhausting that conference, but super motivating, and I know a lot of people who went to that conference are all revved up and ready to go, motivated, inspired. We took amazing classes and so I think it's a good time to talk about. You know, what do we do with all that amazing energy that we just absorbed in that conference? Because I'm revved up, I'm motivated, ready to go. What can we do to, I guess, keep ourselves or keep the momentum going, tom?   0:01:16 - Tom That is a fantastic question and I know you've been presented at dozens and dozens of conferences over the past 10 years, and so have I, and we go and we meet wonderful people and we present and we also attend workshops and panels and we learn a lot and we get to commiserate with our peers, voice actors and coaches and other producers and stuff like that. And then there's this glow.   0:01:42 - Anne There is a glow. It's wonderful glow. There is a glow.   0:01:46 - Tom And then you go home and then for the vast majority of people that go to these conferences, it's like whew.   0:01:53 - Anne And then life sets in right. I have laundry to do. Yeah, family, yeah, right Bills and auditions and stuff like that.   0:02:02 - Tom So it's great. Conferences are great for, obviously for education. They're great for networking, they're great for renewal of purpose, refocus, re-energizing. The trick is how to take all that positive energy and inspiration and revved up-ed-ness and coming, taking it home with you and turning it into effectiveness. Because the positive attitude, while great it can only get you so far, it's not going to get you home. You're going to run out of that momentum and now there's work to be done.   0:02:37 - Anne Interesting, tom. Before we went to the conference, I think somebody had actually created a note sheet of like here are the I guess the talks that I want to go to, here are my goals, or here's what I got out of it, and I thought it was a really great way for people who like that type of thing and they take a lot of notes to write down your objectives. What are you hoping to get from that? And then what do you hope to do once you get, maybe once you get home, to put those lessons learned in place? And so I think that maybe everything should start even before we go to the conference in terms of writing things down and what is it that you hope to get out of this conference. And I'm a big planner, so I am a big proponent of yeah, you guys should plan out what sessions you want to go to, look at the schedule multiple times and just see how you can get the most out of the money that you've spent on that ticket of yours.   0:03:33 - Tom Yeah, absolutely, and different people at different points in their voiceover journey go to different conferences for different reasons, if it's. I've never been one to been one to one before, and I just want to. I haven't even produced a demo yet. I just want to see what this universe is like.   0:03:47 - Anne Great.   0:03:48 - Tom If it's, this is my 15th conference. I've had all these demos done, I've gotten all this work. What am I going to get out of it this time? Or some people go because they specifically want to meet you, or they want to meet another coach or demo producer to see, I want to get in the same room with this person and see if we click because I may want to work with you as a coach or a demo producer. Um, you know, and some go purely as presenters and you know, and then they, you know, do their stuff and then they get out of there and yeah, which is which is which is cool too.   0:04:19 - Anne I think there's such a, there's such a momentum to be gained by just joining forces with like-minded people and, just you know, renewing um relationships, and that just keeps you going, because it's so isolating sometimes just what we do and yeah and I will tell you, though, that the other day I was I don't even know what it was that made me think of it, but I I think I was getting ready to, you know, start.   I had a full day of students, and I said, I don't know what made me think about, oh god, what if I had to go to work for somebody?   um, you know, back in my days of corporate and I'm like I I could never do that again. So boss is out there. This is just a little segue. If you, if, if you know that this is what you want to do and you end up pursuing it full time, I don't say rush into it with your, you know, with your eyes closed. But, um and Tom, we can talk lots of strategies about that, but once you make that decision to go full time, I don't do you know anybody who's actually gone back because they've been unhappy being their own boss um, I know lots of people who have gone back to a regular job because they just couldn't book enough right they needed the money.   0:05:24 - Tom Yeah, exactly, it was purely financially, like I've been trying this and I just, I just can't get enough work to sustain myself and they've come gone back. Um, I can't think of anyone specifically, but I'm sure there are people out there, because there are people who just like to be told what to do, because then they don't have to think about it and there's a level of security in that and I totally that's sympathize with that.   0:05:45 - Anne I'm not one of those people, I can't. I don't, I don't think I could, I could not go back to taking now, I think, now I can take. I can take instructions from my client. Sure, I can be directed um, and then I want to get paid and be done with it. I think that's really it's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting, it's a different dynamic, because that's a, that's a, that's a business to business thing where you and the clients are on equal footing there's no high. There's no hierarchy.   0:06:10 - Tom It's it's you and the client trying to make this finished, great finished product, which is, you know, the audio files that you're gonna send to them or their, their source connecting you through. But with what? When it's a, I am in charge of you and. I'm telling you what to do, and this is when you can go to the bathroom and stuff like that it's like ah, I don't know if I could.   0:06:29 - Anne I don't know, I don't think I could go back to that it makes me think of okay, it's similar to I know I just went off on that on that weird tangent, but that happens sometime, bosses, sorry, um, but it was just a weird like. It just came to me. I was like I could not work for somebody now, so I will do everything in my power to make my business so that I do not have to do that. I think that also was leading into that.   But I think isn't that similar to, let's say, I, I pay my money, I get my ticket, I go to a conference, I take these classes, I'm inspired for a new genre, I'm inspired to work with a new coach, and then we come back and, oops, we're by ourselves, right. So now, yeah, it's very similar to what now, you know, we're gonna be talking about is we've got to take the reins and we've got to do the work and it's, it's now up to us, and we're not necessarily having that coach or that director saying, okay, do this, do this, do this. Now we've got all of this energy and this motivation. How do we cement that and you know, and and start to just really move forward on that?   0:07:27 - Tom right. The trick is if you want to be the vo boss you need to learn how to be your own boss. Yeah, yeah, you know it's empowering to like be the boss. Yeah, I'm a tough boss. I'll tell you that my boss is a jerk my boss, I would say my boss is a bastard oh, I just said that oh. I had another word in mind, but I didn't use it.   0:07:49 - Anne I'm not sure if we'll bleep that out, but yeah woo, I'll tell you what. I've never worked for a harder boss, but isn't that true?   0:07:57 - Tom yeah, yeah, I'm hard on ourselves. I'm pretty real, I'm I'm often pretty relentless and I have to be because I have this bad habit.   0:08:05 - Anne It's called eating and and having a roof over my head, yes, and not living in a cardboard box, yes, yeah, you know.   0:08:14 - Tom So yeah, the motivation is like there's no net yeah, you know what I mean. If I don't audition for this, there's a 100 chance that I'm not gonna book it well, yeah, and I think that's what propels me for sure you know what I mean to get work done, I mean right the fact that I need right.   0:08:30 - Anne I need to be able to pay the mortgage right, and that's the, and that's a.   0:08:33 - Tom That's a great point, anne, is that different people need to find different motivations. To stay motivated when you are alone in your booth talking to yourself? You know, so that's a big part of you know I talk about effectiveness. There's a difference between talent and effectiveness. There's a lot of talented aspiring voice actors out there with interesting voices but like I have an interesting pen, it doesn't make me an author, you know.   0:09:02 - Anne I own a wrench. It doesn't make me a plumber, so having talent, voice doesn't make me effective. Yeah absolutely.   0:09:11 - Tom You know, because no one's going to get discovered, you're not going to get your big break. It doesn't really work that way.   0:09:16 - Anne It's what you do with that pen that matters. It's what you do with that voice that matters.   0:09:20 - Tom Exactly and consistently. Yes, absolutely so when you get home from that conference and you've got all that positive attitude. That's great If you can bottle it and put it on a shelf for later.   0:09:30 - Anne That's great.   0:09:31 - Tom But when you get home, it's about what can I do to be effective today, tomorrow, next week, month, quarter year, two years, five years? And I'm not necessarily talking about writing a business plan, which is something I do do as the, as the video strategist, but it's about how do I think about myself to stay motivated. How do I think about and understand the voiceover industry? So there's a reality, because that's the other thing and, as you know, people coming into the industry have no idea what the industry is. They just have this odd preconceived notion of what it is. Oh yeah, I talk interesting. I got to just get an agent and then they'll just throw Saxa cash at me.   0:10:10 - Anne Exactly and I think, yeah, you don't know what you don't know right.   0:10:13 - Tom You don't know what you don't know.   0:10:15 - Anne And especially not only that is it a new industry for a lot of people, but it's also the fact that there's a lot of people who are very unhappy in their current job situation and get out of that work for somebody else, but then working for yourself is a whole different animal and that really is, I think, where the double it's.   The double whammy comes in for those people new to the industry, because not only are they trying to acquire the skills to be a good talent, but now they also have to have good business skills as well, and they're not used to working for themselves or having to go out and market themselves and get work and all those hats that they've got to put on.   0:10:58 - Tom Yeah, I had a maybe 15 years ago here in New York City. I had a 10 minute meet up with an agent I don't remember which one but he said tell me about yourself. And I talked about all the things I do. He's like, wow, you got a lot of hats.   And I'm like, yeah he's like but you only have one head and I'm like, yeah, so you kind of to be an effective voice actor, you need to kind of be the Dr Seuss Bartholomew in 1001 hats and have all those hats stacked up on. Some of them, some of them, you can take on and put on and take off, but a bunch of them you have to have stacked on your head at the same time, because there is no job description for being a voice actor.   I mean, there is, but nobody knows what it is, until you get here and it's like unlocking these doors and you know, moving these hedges aside and going oh, I need to do, I have to do that. You know it's like. It's almost like a maze, which is the logo of the VO strategist. Now that I think about it helping you navigate the voice over the industry, absolutely. So, navigating the maze of what it means to be an effective voice actor, and staying motivated at the same time. Because, yes, invoicing.   0:12:08 - Anne Staying, staying motivated when you're doing something like accounting.   0:12:12 - Tom Like for me.   0:12:12 - Anne I mean, well, I'm not. I mean, there are some people who love accounting, right, so there's accounting for me. How do there you go See for me? I'm like, oh God, actually I will tell you, tom. So for me, staying motivated while I have an S corp, right, and an S corp is creating all of this paperwork for me and for me, I can't, god it's, and it's just like I need to, either just, you know, be educated about, you know, the entire S corp thing, or I outsource, right. So I think if I had to do all that paperwork and try to understand it all and to stay motivated, it would be very, very difficult for that to happen, and it may discourage me from wanting to have a voiceover business because of this paperwork that I continually have to supply to the government, to you know, support this business, but I, you know, for me one of my solutions is to outsource that right.   And make sure that I have somebody that I trust and can go to if I have any questions, that can handle that aspect for me. So if I'll, I know, constantly get mail, mail, snail mail saying you need to provide this information, or you owe us this amount of money, or you need to prepay this or you know whatever that is, and so I literally will just be like, oh my gosh, this is a lot of paperwork. So I will literally scan that in and send that to my accountant, which, by the way, I will say to the to to my dying day, I will say my accountant was my very best investment for this business. I just I can't. I can't do the numbers.   0:13:45 - Tom Right, well, and that's that's a very important point, and is that if you're getting into the voiceover industry, obviously you need to understand what does that entail on you know soft skills, hard skills, hardware, software, marketing, money and all that stuff, and you need to know, you need to have an understanding of what your S corp is, or what this is, where that is, and then you can decide okay, this is a skill I need to just understand, but I'll outsource it and this is a skill like, for example, using your DAW.   0:14:14 - Anne You have to know how to use your DAW.   0:14:17 - Tom You need to know how to audition and you need to know how to record and clean up and save and, you know, deliver audio file. Some stuff is non-negotiable. You know what I mean.   0:14:27 - Anne But managing your S corp, you know right, that's another thing.   0:14:31 - Tom Or if you're an audio book narrator or a long form e-learning narrator, do you want to hire an audio, an audio engineer, to clean up your clean up your audio or do you want to do that, Do it yourself? Or do you say do it yourself first to understand how it works and why it works and then outsource it? And I'm sure some of your bosses are thinking I don't have that money. To outsource yes, I don't have the money to outsource.   0:14:54 - Anne You need to invest your money to make the money. That's what I always start by saying invest the money to make the money, but and maybe not try to put yourself wholeheartedly into the business until you do have money that you can invest, because that would be, from any perspective, any business. You have to have some investment money.   0:15:15 - Tom I mean it's not just voiceover, just some.   0:15:17 - Anne for some reason it became this like oh, we just talking to a microphone, how easy is that. I don't need to have any money or be prepared, or maybe I just got to buy a mic.   And that, I think, is where, where in the problem lies, where then you start to have, you know, predators in the industry that will sell that dream and people who will get taken for that dream and without the realization that, yeah, they have to put things in place and make investments to do that. So let's, let's kind of go back to we've gone to a conference and we've gotten motivated, and even it doesn't have to be a physical conference, it could be a virtual, online, you know, workshop or whatnot. I just went to a workshop called Unstoppable you. It was a Tony Robbins thing, which was all about the motivation, all about the motivation.   But yeah, now that you've, now that you're motivated, you've got to do the work and you've got to maybe take a look at the hard like really take a look at the the hard questions and and then make concrete steps to move forward. So it's like I can ask the hard questions. I can maybe, I can maybe get through the answers and they might make me cry, some of them Right, they right and so I can do that, but now I have to actually do the hard part, which is moving forward. So what, what would be the first thing you would recommend? Let's say, somebody that comes back from a conference or, you know, a workshop or whatever, and maybe a meeting with a coach and they're they're inspired, they're motivated. What's the first thing that you would have them do?   0:16:46 - Tom The first thing that I would have them do is write down in severe detail what they're perfect.   0:16:51 - Anne Severe detail, not just detail. Severe detail, severe detail.   0:16:55 - Tom What their perfect voiceover day looks like.   0:16:58 - Anne Oh, okay, okay. Follow me with just work with me for a second.   0:17:02 - Tom What time of day are you waking up? What time zone are you in when you wake up? Are you waking up in a house, a cabin, a condo, a space station?   a bunker, a submarine Like? Where are you waking up when it's time to start doing voiceover? Does the limo pick you up? Are you walking downstairs into the basement? Are you getting on a bicycle to go downtown? Are you going into your backyard to your custom built booth? Are you going into the attic? Are you taking a bus or a train? And then, when you get there, what are? What kind of? What kind of bookings are you doing? What genres or subgenres of voiceover? One or more? How much are you getting paid? Obviously, we all want to get paid as much as possible, but what is that actual number that you need to cover all of your voiceover expenses, all of your personal expenses? Manage your debt, save for retirement, save for that college education for your kids, save for that car and have enough to have a little fun.   0:18:01 - Anne And this is before. You're a working talent, right, this is still a, really, if you're just new to the industry and you want to get into it and you're let's say, you're in the process with a coach and you're making demos.   You want to project what genres? First of all, if you're working with a coach, you should probably have a genre in mind already yes, right, and with a genre specific coach. So you kind of know where you want to go. But putting that down, right, even if you're not actually doing the work as you were mentioning okay, this is the work, I'm going to be doing these auditions, even if you don't have audition opportunities yet and you're still just working. Put down that on the list because you want to make sure that you have the space for it and the time for it. Right, right, right. And then the goal, steps, the steps.   0:18:42 - Tom Right, exactly. And once you have that perfect day realized, written down in severe detail, you walk that backwards to the day to the moment that you're writing that list. What are you missing between right now and that perfect voiceover day? What money, how much money do you need? What training do you need? What tools do you need? What marketing acumen do you need? All of the things big and small, knowledge, hardware, software, tangible, intangible mindset to get you where you are and figure out what are you missing and what you need to do to fill those gaps. So when you come home from a conference, all motivated, try to figure out what the practical application of all the wonderful information that you just collected is. We go to all these workshops and listen to all these panels and take all these notes and some of the knowledge is immediately actionable and others are, for you know, I took this genre workshop. I'm gonna keep these notes and maybe I'll be ready for it in a year or two.   And so on and so forth. Organize, organize everything, because you need to figure out how actionable and practical everything that you need is to do to get you to that perfect voiceover day and use the glow and energy and momentum of the conference that you just got home from to kind of build that foundation, build that scaffolding, create that structure. So, when you get back into the day to day grind of trying to build or develop or nurture your voiceover business, you have effective systems of thought and effective systems of execution.   0:20:23 - Anne And let me interject also what I think is important is, of course, yes, you took that workshop on animation or whatever promo, imaging, whatever it is, you know, medical narration, I say because I just did that, love it or corporate.   I think that you always have to keep your eye on the market. I gosh, I feel like sometimes we become so blinded by our own like performance because we're like, oh, I want to get really good at animation or I want to get really good at, you know, whatever commercial or corporate. But I think we always have to keep our eye on the marketplace because if there's not a demand or if the demand is not as big and I'm always telling this to my students about corporate, it's a huge market, is a huge opportunity there Versus animation. Not that there isn't a huge opportunity there, but there's less of an opportunity there than there is in corporate. There's more of an opportunity in e-learning than there is in even I would say, promo, promo, of course. Right, documentary. Everybody that comes to me for narration says I want to do documentaries and I'm like well, how many documentaries do you think there are at any given time? Do you know?   0:21:32 - Tom what I mean yeah.   0:21:33 - Anne Compared to the 30.4 million registered companies that have a product or service to sell that need a corporate narrator.   0:21:40 - Tom And need human resources videos and need orientation videos and need compliance videos Right.   0:21:45 - Anne And I think that that is something that we really need to take into consideration at all points in our business, because that will affect right when you're talking about here's where I am. Here are the here's my perfect day, here's where I want to be, I want to be animating, I want to be doing animations on television or whatever that is, or I want to have a national commercial spot. That's all well and good. However, I think that you also have to take in account what is the market for that? Is there okay? Are you going to be able? And I used to think erroneously back in the beginning, before I realized what the market was oh, I just need a commercial a day, right? Or you know, oh, wouldn't that be nice.   Oh yeah, tom, we're talking about real talk, right? Real bosses. Well, okay, I don't know anybody that gets a commercial a day, except for people who are maybe on rosters for serious exam or they're doing, and that's usually for lower pay. But if you're thinking like, oh, if I got a national spot, even one a week, right, I mean, unless you're in it, voice for a campaign. I mean, I love how you laugh, that's the perfect way.   0:22:46 - Tom Well, I laugh because I thought I had to sound like James Earl Jones.   0:22:47 - Anne Right, I mean yeah, and so like that is. You know you have to understand what's realistic for the, for the industry too, when you're jotting these down. So any education that you can get on that right. Listen to podcasts like Vio Boss. I mean, we've been doing this for six years, right, talking about markets and business. And, tom, you've been doing gosh. How many years have you been doing business consulting?   0:23:10 - Tom and strategizing Over 10 years.   0:23:12 - Anne Yeah, over 10 years and specifically in our industry, and so, like guys, I mean, look, I'm not saying of course you should come to us, but I mean we've been doing this for a long time, we've watched the market evolve and so that's why I want to point it out and say that this is so important for us to have in consideration in our, in our step by step process of here's where we are, here's where we want to be. Now, if I want to be, you know, a commercial, you know Vio artist, well, maybe I want to think about another genre as well, to add in, to supplement those days when I don't get the national campaign every day. And I'm not trying to crush your dreams, guys, that's just not, that's just not it. But you know we're. This is a dose of reality, right, tom?   This is our whole series is based on let's talk real yeah.   0:23:57 - Tom The reality is is that you may be. You may be good at something you don't like, and you may not be good at something you do like.   A lot of people are drawn to the industry because they love cartoons and video games, and a lot of them may not be good at it, but they may find out that they are good at corporate or e-learning, which is a far more to your point, stable form of voiceover income, because, when it comes to effectiveness, the bottom line of effectiveness as a voice actor is you're able to make money. You're able to develop a revenue stream.   0:24:28 - Anne Develop any revenue stream that you need to make. Yeah, develop any revenue stream.   0:24:32 - Tom you can in any genre, whether you like it or not, and I always say all genres of voiceover is storytelling. I get my storytelling jollies out of any voiceover genre.   0:24:44 - Anne I don't care Teaching statistics right or you're narrating corporate responsibility or HR policies. You are absolutely a character and you are acting, and so that is a requirement, that is, I mean, baseline requirement, especially now when we talked about this in our last podcast. It is such a requirement for us to be the actors that we are called to be, I mean, and that includes all genres. So, yes, and that's the reality, that's the real talk.   0:25:14 - Tom Yes.   0:25:15 - Anne The real talk is you've got to invest in yourself, in developing those skills and getting good coaching, and not just taking acting classes. I know everybody would say take an acting class, and I think that's wonderful too, but you've also got to take acting classes as they pertain to voiceover as well.   0:25:32 - Tom Yes, there's a crossover. I mean, I always say improv classes are extremely important because it gives you the ability to make strong decisions quickly while you're narrating your copy. But to an end, compliment stuff like that, and there's like there are people who do improv for voiceover and acting specifically for voiceover. It's a very specific skill.   0:25:54 - Anne There's very specific muscles that you need to flex, Absolutely, absolutely To be to do voiceover as opposed to on camera or as opposed to theater. I'm all about teaching the acting for narration and, by the way, tom, I miss you. I don't see you. Did you turn your camera off by any chance?   0:26:09 - Tom No, I'm still here.   0:26:11 - Anne Oh, I don't see you how interesting. That's that's. Do you see yourself?   0:26:16 - Tom I do.   0:26:17 - Anne Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to assume.   0:26:19 - Tom Okay.   0:26:20 - Anne I'm going to assume that it just kind of blipped off. But you know, hey guys, technology Riverside, hopefully we'll have your, we'll have your video anyways.   0:26:30 - Tom Okay.   0:26:30 - Anne Absolutely, so, okay, so, so what a great conversation. So now you're back. Okay, so that's interesting. So now we've taken our, we've come back from the conference, we're motivated, we're, we've written down our, our perfect voiceover day, right and so, and then we've worked backwards to the steps. And so what would be next after that, tom, how do do we need to? We probably need to take time to evaluate whether we've accomplished those steps right, absolutely.   Once we've written them down and we've and we've developed our to-do list. Now we've got to go back, maybe in a week or so or in a you know at the end of the day and say did I accomplish my tasks?   0:27:07 - Tom Yes, self-evaluation and self-reflection is one of the most important skill sets to be an effective voice actor. Because you don't have. Unless you're part of my mentorship program or you're mentoring with Ann, you are working in a vacuum. You need to develop the ability to metacognate, which is the ability to stand outside of thank you, the ability to stand outside of yourself. Look at yourself objectively and say did I do what I assigned to my assigned for myself? Did I do it? Well, if I didn't do it, why didn't I do it? Was there a logistical problem? Was a financial problem? Was there a motivational problem? You know and find out why, why you do what you do, how you tick, and there's a time to be kind to yourself and there's a kind, there's a time to be tough on yourself. You know.   0:27:56 - Anne And so taking I think I've always tough on myself, but you're right, yeah.   0:27:59 - Tom You have to be able to. You have to be able to do both, because we're all human. We all have different energy levels and emotional states that fluctuate constantly throughout the day, week, month, year, decade, and we need to be accommodating for that. Oh, mercury's in retrograde today, so I'm not going to get my invoicing done, or what were you?   0:28:18 - Anne know oh, technology sucks, technology sucks. You know what I mean?   0:28:21 - Tom Oh, great retrograde, yeah, you know but if you find yourself making excuses for yourself about why you're not doing things, then you are not being effective.   0:28:28 - Anne Because I have an, I have an action for it. That's a whole another podcast right there.   0:28:32 - Tom Yeah, I have my action plan right here and I don't check off every single box. I get about 80% of my action plan stuff done every month, dating back to 2006. And sometimes it's-.   0:28:42 - Anne Do you have records from back then? Do you do you have a-.   0:28:45 - Tom I have a binder right here with every single one of these. So January 2006-. I love it Was my first printed one and I've done 12 a year since 2006 and it's in this binder right over here.   0:28:54 - Anne It does not surprise me that you love numbers too. I love numbers, right, yeah, see, and so that I feel goes along with.   Now I'm not so much, although I will. I will share my book is out there, but I have my to-do list that I love to cross things off on and I have my planner where I like to write my goals down. I'm not always as good as I propose to be, but, yeah, I think that's super important. But, wow, what a great conversation. I want to talk to you more, in more detail, about a lot of these steps because I think they're super important in our series. So, tom, thank you so so much for joining me for our first, our first in a series of real bosses.   0:29:35 - Tom Yeah.   0:29:36 - Anne So, guys, if you, I have a simple mission for you, but one that has big impact 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Do you want to know what I'm talking about? Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and to join us. And big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL. We love connecting with bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and be real bosses. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne and Lau recently held an Audition Demolition workshop which included a live callback and casting process. In this episode, the Bosses discuss the audition demolition and how it mirrors the casting process. They explain the importance of taking direction well, researching scripts, and approaching every piece of copy as an actor. During a live callback, don't forget to have fun and enjoy being in a room with other people. Anne and Lau also discuss the importance of feedback and how it can help aspiring voice actors hone their craft Finally, we examine some of the memorable people and performances that stood out. The Bosses finish by reminding listeners that our next Audition Demolition is coming up soon! Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   0:00:19 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my bossy co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, how are you? I'm awesome, Lau. How are you Good? Fantastic, Lau. We had the most amazing audition demolition this past weekend.   0:00:45 - Lau Woohoo, it was super, super power.   0:00:49 - Anne Yeah, I think we should chat about it. Oh, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, well, for those bosses who are unaware, we created a audition demolition workshop, which is very similar. We did it once before a Lau, but we added a couple of new twists to it and essentially it was to mimic the casting process, the audition process, and so people could enter and they could choose to get feedback or not. They could audition and get feedback, or audition and not get feedback through our Dropbox new application called Replay. Lau and I were selecting a short list after that and ultimately did not announce the short list until the live show, which was this past weekend. I think it was so exciting, Lau.   0:01:42 - Lau It was so fun, it was great. It took a while right. It took us time to get through it. It wasn't a quick deal. It took us. How long was the show, how long did it run?   0:01:52 - Anne A couple hours, it was a couple hours and we had 10 people that we called back, just like in a real audition I was talking Lau about. When I used to drive into LA I would get notice from my agent that said you've been called back and they want to hear you. I would drive oh God, I would drive into LA and go to the studio and I'd see a lot of times I'd see my voiceover friends there. It was kind of nice. It was like a big party. But yeah, we were still auditioning and so I was a little nervous. I think all of us had a little bit of nervous.   But we would be called in one by one to read a script and Lau, and I tried to mimic that as much as possible during our weekend, and so people were not aware if they were on the shortlist until they got to the live show and then we announced the shortlist one by one. It wasn't, we announced everybody on the shortlist at once. It basically like as if you were waiting in the studio lobby to be called into the studio to read, and so that's what we did. Everybody was surprised and we had 10 people that we shortlisted and we had them come in and guess what? The client changed the script. Now, we did that before, but that's typically what happens, right, you read an audition and then when you go in person to audition, they have a different script. That's almost always the case, I think, and so we changed the script on them, and I don't know Lau. What were your thoughts?   0:03:15 - Lau I thought it went really well. I mean surprising that I kind of thought to some degree many would fall apart with that and not know what was going on and there would be mass confusion and there would be fire and tornadoes and earthquakes. And Charlton Heston would come out of the booth and then we would be eating alive, right, and then the sea would part.   I was like, oh, what are we doing inviting this? But no, seriously. We had some faith in these wonderful talent, and rightly so. They all came through. Everyone came through, I think, with flying colors, and we did. We're good actors, ann. I mean, we made them sufficiently sweat a little bit as if you would in a real live audition. There was a little stress, little tension in the air. I know people were nervous because I saw conversations beforehand flying around on email and in the chat and I love that.   I think that that gave it that flavor of a real. You know it was a mock audition but it was a real audition feel, which is something we wanted to mirror for the professional development and education of it. Absolutely, that worked well. I thought that really worked well.   0:04:20 - Anne And I think that it's really good to get yourself practiced in a live situation where you're definitely feeling adrenaline, whether you're nervous in a good way or even a bad way, right, it really helps you to get seasoned and to figure out what you have to do to work out those nerves to really perform well, and I think that that was a good experience for everybody that participated.   And I feel that, by the way, and so what? We waited until the very beginning and we said guess what? The client changed the script and then we gave them the new script. So talent did not have a lot of time to prepare. As a matter of fact, I would say the first talent that we called up usually is the one at the disadvantage for this particular show, because typically we're not listening to each other audition. We're going in one by one and it's a private thing and we get private feedback. But this because we wanted this to be an educational experience. We had an entire Zoom room full of people who didn't know if they made the audition and were listening to the feedback live, real time from both Lau and myself, and so that will happen a lot of times.   Lau, right in a real situation, you'll have more than one person giving you feedback. You'll have an engineer in there, you'll have a director, you might have a client. You might have more than one person that's offering you direction at the time, and they could have different ideas about the direction. Now, I think Lau, you and I, we think fairly similarly, but there were some auditions where I wanted to hear something different than you did or feedback that we gave was absolutely, I think, different in different spots, but I think overall, we were sticking to the casting specs that were laid out there and that was very similar to a lot of casting specs. That is, make it authentic, make it real, make it, make it conversational. So that's always a task, I think, for talent, and when they're just seeing the script for the first time and even if we've been directing other people, they might be oh my God, they might be preparing. They might not have listened to our feedback, right?   0:06:24 - Lau Yes, yes, and that was the great part of having everyone in the room. That would not happen in an audition most of the time most anywhere but we wanted that educational experience. We wanted people to observe each other's work and get the benefit of everyone's feedback so that even if they were nervous in preparing, they could absorb some of what they were hearing before they went on. And I think that it was a blessing for people to kind of go later and it was also a blessing for people to go first.   0:06:55 - Anne Sure, oh, I agree.   0:06:55 - Lau Because it's a very different experience. I also wanted to bring up, too, our experience, ann, of when we were commenting in the Dropbox and doing all of our feedback, that I heard in the session from a number of people and post via email thanking us that they felt that the feedback was so wonderful, so detailed, so necessary and it was like a drink of nectar for a lot of people that said I'd like to think what you said was authentic and real and that it gave me time, it made me feel special, it made me feel like someone was paying attention to me, that status casting agency status, coaching status and that I could walk away with some real tools, practice tools to work on.   Absolutely. It wasn't just about am I good, am I bad?   0:07:46 - Anne am I right am?   0:07:46 - Lau I wrong. It was much more about reminding me that I have a full process here and I can go in many different directions, and I'd like to think that you and I gave as much authentic feedback as we could, rather than artificial feedback just for the sake of entertainment value.   0:08:03 - Anne Oh yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm going to say that I think that what I loved about it is that the educational component that came into it with the feedback and this is the feedback not just during the live show, this is the feedback via Dropbox. The really cool thing about Dropbox Replay and offering feedback there's a lot of times you'll notice that you submit your auditions via Dropbox and you always have to be careful how you name them and there's lots of criteria when you upload an audition. The cool thing about being able to offer feedback for all the people that requested it is that we were able to give feedback along a timeline, and so if there was a particular passage that they did well or a particular passage where they maybe lost their authenticity or we had a critique, we could specify it at the specific time that it happened, and that's something that you don't always get in a real audition. As a matter of fact, usually in an audition you'll go in and read, and it's very rare that they'll offer feedback. They might give you a set of directions to do it again and may not offer as much verbose feedback as we did during the session, and you're kind of left with.   Okay, I hope I did good. And so you know, I'm always walking out of the room going well, I think they liked me. I hope they liked me, I hope I nailed it. And a lot of times they will give some generic thank you so much. Sometimes they won't say a word, they'll just say okay, thank you, and you'll walk out that door going gosh, I hope I nailed it. Which is what I love about the audition demolition is that we were able to really go beyond that and really act as like okay, here's what we would offer you feedback for the educational component. And then, when we made our decision Lau this is what I loved we muted ourselves, because a lot of times we're there, live in the studio or we're in a Zoom session and we are being directed and then all of a sudden they're gonna mute and they're gonna talk and we can see them talking behind the glass and you're like okay, did they like that?   What are they talking about? And you know, maybe they're talking about lunch, we don't know. Maybe they're talking about my performance. Was it good, was it bad? Oh, my God, what are they gonna tell me next? And then they'll say okay, thank you, we're done. But I liked our mimicking of that.   0:10:14 - Lau And there was a funny moment, though you can't forget to share, that hilarious moment, where we had talked about giving each other a call, a cell phone call, so that we could have this sort of intercom system between the two of us in case we wanna bring up some details to each other or just remind each other about certain cues. I totally forgot, and it was about a quarter of the way through and I said oh wow, I get a call. And I called Ann and I said Ann, listen, because one person didn't show up. I said do you want to have another call back, since we have an open slot? And she's like Lau, everyone can hear you. Right now Can everyone hear Lau? And they're like, and I'm like, that's okay, they'll learn from it, it's great for them.   0:10:59 - Anne There you go, there you go, and here's the deal In a real situation, right? If you don't show up to that casting call, that's it. You snooze, you lose, you're out, and they may make a decision at the last minute to call more people, or they need to hear more people, or maybe they didn't get what they needed from the first audition. Gosh, that goes on all the time.   Right, Lau, they recast it because they didn't really get what they wanted. So we did that too which I love it through a wrench in it, because everybody that was shortlisted thought that was it. And then all of a sudden we had a discussion. We said we'd like to call back Actually, we were gonna call back two people, but we ended up calling back one other person, which again added that element of surprise which again hypes up the adrenaline and the nerves. And so I think again, this audition demolition Lau we can do this like regularly, because I think it's a skill that every voice artist should have in their toolbox to be able to be prepared on the fly, work through those nerves and just perform and get that gig and be able to take direction well, right, and no matter how we slice it, of course we're always about process or process oriented people.   0:12:14 - Lau But there is a product, there is a gig at stake and in this contest we had prizes, we had some cash.   0:12:22 - Anne We had cash.   0:12:22 - Lau We had cash we had cash, we had a going on. People were really fighting and cLauing for the real deal. It wasn't just oh, you won, congratulations. It was, let's actually reward you. Who is something real world that you can enjoy, right and people love that.   0:12:38 - Anne I think people love that. I mean, who doesn't love cash? Who doesn't love cash? I mean, that's just as you know, that's an investment in your business, right? So invest in the audition demolition and you can win cash and or swag, and so I'm extremely excited to have offered that.   0:12:54 - Lau I wanna ask what were some auditions that really stuck out for you and why did they stick out for you? I mean, even in the larger pool, not just the short list, but even in the larger pool there were so many unique people. Oh yeah, they were diverse talent very across the board. No two people were the same. What were some of the more memorable people and performances that your audience can learn from today?   0:13:18 - Anne Well, first and foremost, understanding that I'm going to be casting for a particular job and a particular company, which this happened to be University of Phoenix, I had a demographic in mind that I wanna advertise to and I had a sound in my head that I thought would be a good representative of this particular company or university that would be able to sell effectively.   And I think that every casting director has an idea in their head as to what kind of a voice they're looking for, which usually ends up in the specs. But sometimes they change their mind when somebody gets creative or maybe interprets the script in a little bit of a different way. And it was always those auditions that stood out to me, the ones that it wasn't like the song that I heard in my head. Right, we were asking for authentic, we were asking for conversational, and those people that could really come into the first few words, that sounded like they had a story, they had a person they were talking to, those were the ones that perked up my ears. And, of course, those that had a very different, a very different sound as well. I mean, I will say I mean I can't say that your sound doesn't come into play here, because, again, we're hiring people based upon how we think they're going to effectively sell our product. Right, what?   0:14:40 - Lau about you Lau? I would agree, and I made a concerted effort to come in with a very open mind and play the producer, who has not as much idea of what I'm actually looking for. I just know, I know the product, I know the school, I know the program, I've seen their advertising campaigns. I get that, yeah, but I want to keep an open mind because I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in. Yeah, age wise, diversity factor, accent wise and I'm glad I did that, because everyone was so different and so unique. I would have been let down only in the sense that I would have been looking for that needle in a haystack.   Oh, I was looking at the whole haystack and because we did that, our shortlist was so diverse.   0:15:27 - Anne Oh, it was no two people who are alike, right.   0:15:30 - Lau You'd say, was there even a breakdown involved with this, because they were so large?   0:15:33 - Anne and that's what's so cool. What I love about what you just said was I said okay, I had an idea in mind, right, I know the demographic, I know the product and I know the type of sound that I'm looking for and that's what I'm gonna put in the casting specs. However, you're absolutely right. By being open-minded and hearing a bunch of different voices, then I started to think, well, okay, for this campaign, I like this voice because of this factor. I like this voice because that's the one I originally thought would be a really great choice for selling. But now I can see that this other voice, which may not have been anywhere, like I thought right, would really be effective in helping to sell my product as a casting director.   So, yes, keeping it open-minded, understanding, guys, that even though the casting specs may call for something, right, if you bring something unique to the read, you bring yourself, you bring that personality, you bring something that just makes us go oh, okay, I didn't think about that.   It really is a wonderful testament to, literally, your voice. It could be any voice, right, it doesn't have to be a particular sound, doesn't have to be a particular style, it can be you, it can be what you bring to the read and that can sway a casting director's choice, which is amazing, right, it's wonderful, it's hopeful and it makes you feel like, alright, well then, I still am gonna give my best, right? Well, if you're looking at the casting spectrum, I don't know, I'm probably not gonna get it. I mean, no, don't feel that way at all, because we were surprised very, and actually even in our decisions, right, in terms of who were we going to cast when it came down to it. Right, we were going back and forth between a couple of different voices and I think that, well, let's keep these guys on hold or on call back, or who else would be great for this campaign. There were multiple choices.   0:17:19 - Lau Yeah, and I was playing tricks in my head saying, oh, I can't wait to see who's gonna win this thing, because I have no idea right now. Literally throughout the whole thing, I literally Could not figure out who is going to win and who is going to book the gate, and I think that's very true and very accurate to the casting process. Many times it comes right down to the wire when everyone is disagreeing on a talent or maybe they need to bring in another talent, and you and I did that.   0:17:46 - Anne We weren't necessarily it didn't bring but, we were going back and forth about.   0:17:50 - Anne We wanted to narrow it down, and it was tough for us to narrow down those choices because we each had our own Independent, we had our favorites and we had people that we thought were best suited for the campaign. I'm glad that we were able to. Obviously, we awarded the gig to one person and that's a congratulations to Joshua Goodman and then we awarded to runners up, because that was something that we thought you know we're gonna keep you on our shortlist for perhaps the next campaign and that was Pat Kennedy, was one of our alternates and gender Macintosh. So congratulations to everybody and really congratulations to everyone who auditioned. I mean, I was so impressed with the professionalism and the talent that we heard and I'm excited to do this again, and I'm excited about changing up the scripts, the genre right and changing up the scripts and having even more people audition for this. So I think it was a real success. I don't know what are you excited about for what's up next?   0:18:51 - Lau Well, I'll tell you one piece of excitement, and I don't like to say this at the top. It's what we call metatheatrical. It's a reality within a reality, within a reality, but the truth is, this was not a mock audition when I looked at this, and I'm sure you were thinking this too, in regards to recommending clients for projects that you're a part of. I am always looking for new talent. So there will be people that I'm going to reach out to for MCVO contracts.   0:19:20 - Anne We don't say that and I'll be referring people because it becomes a top of mind. I know who my talent are Top of mind, yeah, and I'll be casting for projects as well. While I'm not a talent agent like yourself, I do have a number of clients that I help cast for and I actually have a couple of rosters that I place people that I recommend I place them for jobs and so the truth is is like it's a mock audition for educational purposes.   0:19:47 - Lau but there's a subtext of reality that whenever you're in front of working people in the industry, they're always going to be thinking about you for potential work. How do you put someone like us in front of some of these people and say don't look at them for work, just look at them as a student? It's not possible, because they're working people, they're working professionals. So we want to give educational value, lots of educational value and development, but we also want to potentially find new people.   0:20:19 - Anne we could be working with Awesome talent. No question, let's there to lose for auditioning, right? So our next audition demolition and again. By the time this airs, it may have passed already, but I really think, talking about our experiences with the first one, I think it ran gosh. It ran smoother than I even thought, and so I'm really excited to continue this on a regular basis because I think it's just so educational and, as bosses, we're all about the education. I'm all about providing a great resource. That's what we do here at the VioBoss podcast, and we're here to help. We're here to hopefully give you some advice and tips along your journey in this crazy voiceover industry that we all love so much. And hey, what can I?   0:21:03 - Lau say I think it's fantastic and I want to be clear to those who have no idea what we're talking about and want to get involved with it that you're getting literally hours worth of feedback. Oh yeah, not just a quick. That was great and you're done. You're getting all the written feedback first Plus and our Dropbox Plus.   You're going to show up on the contest day in real time live and you're going to get all sorts of feedback. You're going to hear everyone else's feedback. You're going to get to observe and steal and absorb everyone else's. Then you'll get your own. So it's like double feedback, Endless feedback.   0:21:38 - Anne It's like double feedback. It's more than if you just go to one session, because you're getting much more written feedback from both Lau and myself, whether you make the shortlist or not, and during the class you're going to have the exposure to finding out. If you're on the shortlist and even if you don't make the shortlist, you get to watch the others perform and be redirected and get that education as well. So I mean, gosh, the value I'm just saying the value is incredible, guys.   0:22:08 - Lau It's massive, it's huge. I mean, I don't know any other circumstance that offers that kind of thing.   0:22:14 - Anne And who offers cash? Who offers? Cash as a prize and the amount of time that we're dealing with a compressed amount of time, right, right, you can win back your money plus some, win back your investment and some, and have fun doing it and be top of mind for those people that may be able to help cast you in further roles.   0:22:34 - Lau So and do you have a couple of quick tips? I love tips, couple of quick tips for the next round of talent. Who are like I have to do this, I got to get in on this or the round that just came through. I know a lot of them are already talking about coming back. They want to have another go of it, they want to be challenged again. Let's talk about quickly a couple of tips that we can offer them when they come back. Good idea, when they're coming in for the first time.   0:22:58 - Anne Well, I'm going to say, first and foremost, do your research on the script, do some analysis before you run into your studio and just read it as if you this is the way you think it should sound.   I really think you've got to spend a few moments and, if you can, google the product, google the company, find out like who their demographic is, find out if they've had other campaigns. Take a look at those campaigns. See what their style is, what their brand is, what their mission statement is, and I think all of that information can help you to voice for that company better. And also make sure that you are, after the analysis, that you really look at it as an actor and I know you're gonna probably expound on this one, but I want you to really look on that script as an actor. You're not gonna probably get a storyboard with it, and so you have to try to imagine what's happening in the scene, always know who you are and who you're talking to, and really put yourself in a scene so that you are authentically in it, telling a story where all storytellers right. We have to tell the story. We have to engage the listener into a believable, authentic performance and Lau. I'm sure you're gonna go off on that one, oh my gosh.   0:24:11 - Lau I second that. I third that I also don't want you to lose that fun factor, because there is a tremendous fun factor to not just voicing the copy but also being with people in a room. When you're with people in a room, I know it's scary, it's nerve-wracking, you don't know who everyone is, but I want you to enjoy, like, really relish the moment and have a little bit of personalization as you. So some of the time when you were giving a direction in, or we gave an adjustment or we were just greeting people, there were some people that stuck out in my mind as being very memorable because they had that mix of business acumen with warmth and fun, and they smiled a lot. There was one talent His teeth were so white I couldn't stop looking at them. He just smiled the whole time because we were visually in a room seeing each other.   We weren't just hearing each other audio wise, but all of that counts for something it does. Yeah, so that I know, okay, this talent knows how to smile on a lot of commercial reads. This person knows how to be a warm, engaging person. So if they're dealing with our clients, they're gonna be that way, like there's a lot of reasons.   0:25:20 - Anne Good points, excellent Right.   0:25:22 - Lau We have to enjoy. Let go be social a little bit, be personable. We're not gonna waste time, we're not getting into huge conversations. It's not a party, but it is a real time engagement of real people, and those people stick in my mind and relationships do matter.   0:25:39 - Anne I mean, it's one of those things that, like you said, it's not a party that you're gonna be talking the director's ear off, but you certainly have to have a little bit of a personality and have a little bit of joy and a little bit of definitely a lot of professionalism, but also let us see a little bit about who you are and that will help us to understand what you can bring to the table Absolutely, and that's within your interactions. When we're giving you direction and feedback, all of that comes out. So, yeah, good advice.   0:26:06 - Lau I'm gonna throw in another one and say it's really important to warm up. We wouldn't know for sure because we weren't asking this question, but I would suspect there were a few people who are not quite as warmed up as they could have been, mainly because they were stumbling a lot, they were going back on lines, they weren't breathing well, they were holding the breath, and I do think a lot of that is just nerves.   0:26:29 - Anne It could be nerves.   0:26:30 - Lau Yeah, real time, but take the time, even if it's an hour. Sit in your booth or take the time to stretch, drink water, breathe the air, go over your lines, feel them through, personalize them, so that it isn't just about getting the script right or I gotta get through this and sound good. It's about how do I feel you and I talked a lot about like the person that you're being and talking to is this real person? Even though it had a little bit of a corporate, boxy language to it, it's real. They're real people. So you gotta do that in your warmup. You have to incorporate that all in your warmup. You can't warm up or come in and you're colder and then you're warming up as you audition. I never recommend that. I think you should come in fully engaged full throttle, full throttle and get ready to go.   I think that that was the difference. That was one of the big differences between the people who are a little bit on a higher level and people who are coming into it, kind of feeling it out.   0:27:29 - Anne Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, when you're hearing direction and feedback as well, if you've got that pencil and you've got the script or your pad, your iPad, whatever it is to make some notes, cause I know, in the heat of the moment, sometimes, when you're getting direction and feedback and they ask for another read, sometimes they give a lot of things, okay, and then over here, I'd like you to lighten up here and who are you talking to and I feel like, if you needed to make some quick notes, make sure that you have the ability to do that. I love that, yeah.   0:27:59 - Lau I even say you know, with a prop. If you're dealing with a prop and you like a prop and a prop works for you, make it a prop that counts. Make it something that is meaningful to you. The first thing that came to my mind was if I'm dealing with the University of Phoenix read, and if you watch the advertising campaigns, traditionally they're pretty heartful. There's a warmth and a thoughtfulness to it. It would be great to have what the diploma looks like in front of you, or what a graduate looks like in front of you or what personally, so that you can see how meaningful that is to someone. That is going to change their whole life. That piece of paper is going to change their whole life potentially, and just bringing that in with you can change your whole delivery versus. Let me just get the first line right. Yeah, Absolutely.   0:28:43 - Anne You know what I mean Absolutely and, like I said, I think that research and maybe looking at other commercials that they've done or other work that they've put out there to their potential clients, yeah, absolutely, that can really make a difference.   0:28:55 - Speaker 1 So wow Good, I'm excited. I can't wait for the next one. I can't wait, bosses stay tuned.   0:29:02 - Anne We will have the next dates on the VO Boss website, vobosscom. The events should be right there on the front page, and so we are looking forward to having all of you come and audition for us and take advantage of the audition. Demolition and Loth. Thank you so much, as usual, for another amazing discussion. Bosses, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we will see you at the next VO Boss audition demolition.   0:29:46 - Lau Yeah, see you then, woohoo, bye.   0:29:50 - Speaker 1 Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.   0:30:23 - Lau You really know your stuff.   0:30:28 - Anne I'd like somebody to say that to me you really know your stuff. I want every session to be like wow, that was amazing.   0:30:36 - Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I know a man.   0:30:38 - Anne Bob, it's been. It's been years since we've had a talent.   0:30:41 - Speaker 1 It's somebody this talented. It's been years.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Being a boss isn't just about calling the shots, it's a delicate balancing act that requires continuous learning, effective people management, and navigating the complexities of business growth. Anne & Lau unpack the multifaceted nature of being a BOSS - the responsibilities, the challenges, the triumphs, and everything in between. Listen in as they share their personal experiences and insights on managing people, mastering outsourcing, and balancing the dynamics of a growing business. You'll learn the significance of industry education, the art of hiring the right people, and the need for continuous learning and adaptability. Plus, they delve into the essential elements of establishing strong relationships with clients and colleagues. This is a conversation you won't want to miss, so tune in and let's learn how to truly embrace being a BOSS…   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only, most beautiful, lovely Lau Lapides.    Lau: Oh, thank you. Miss Anne. Love you right back. Yay.    Anne: Ohh. You know, Lau. I had such a week. Oh my gosh. It is so tough to be a BOSS. I'm just saying.    Lau: Ugh. It is. It is. You have to give that a little accent, because that was such a week. Was it a week? It was a week. It was a week. It was a week, a week from Weekland.    Anne: I Had such a week.    Lau: Such a week.    Anne: Trying to, being a BOSS.   Lau: Oy, tell me about your week. Tell me about it.    Anne: The VO BOSS. Okay, so that was my poor rendition of (laughs) VO BOSS. So being a VO BOSS, you know what? There's so many different types of BOSSes. So I thought it would be a good thing to talk about today, all the different hats that we wear being BOSSes and all the, as you mentioned before, the plates that need to be kept spinning in the air. And those of you who are maybe just getting into this, or if you're into this, realize that you're not alone. We're all spinning plates, and it's one big, crazy, wonderful world of being a BOSS. All these things that I never anticipated having to do when I initially thought, oh, I'm gonna go into voiceover.    Lau: Oh, totally. You know? Oh, you don't know anything. I mean, that's the beauty of it, is like if you knew everything, you wouldn't go into it. So it's better.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: Ignorance is bliss, right? In a way.    Anne: Probably.    Lau: But do you ever literally have vertigo? Like sometimes I literally, at night, I'll sit down, and the room is spinning, and I'm like, why is the room spinning? It's like so many things are entering --   Anne: Could've been those drinks you had, Lau. I'm just kidding. (laughs).    Lau: It could be like, listen, I should drink --   Anne: Vodka, you. No (laughs).    Lau: I should drink. I would be able to see straight. But it's just like so many layers of stuff happening in your mind that literally you get dizzy from it. I get dizzy from it.    Anne: It's funny because I said to -- as I was having a meeting with my assistants the other day -- I said, God, it's hard to be a BOSS. Like, I thought, oh, it's gonna be wonderful going into business for myself, and, and it is. Trust me, I would have it no other way. I've decided that I could never, ever work for someone again outside of an a guest position, like a guest director, that kind of thing. But I just can't work for someone again. But being a BOSS, there's so many responsibilities that you have to take on that you may have never even thought of. And they're scary. Right? Because did I have any experience setting up an S-corp? Did I have any experience hiring employees or firing employees? Things that you just didn't -- in the beginning, did I have any experience negotiating outside of being in the store with my — by the way, my father, my father, every place he went, he tried to bargain. He tried to bargain the deal. He would go into Sears. Okay, Sears is not around much anymore, but I think Sears is  online.    Lau: (laughs). I love Sears.    Anne: But he would go into Sears, like just the retail store, and he'd just, anything he bought, he'd try to, he tried to bargain them down. I mean, it was hysterical. It used to drive my mother crazy, but all the negotiation, I had no idea. Right? No idea how to negotiate, no idea how to set up accounting for my business.    Lau: Yeah. They're hardcore skill sets that we're not, I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, if you're in undergrad, if you're in graduate school, if you go to a conservatory, if you're going to a training studio, they all kind of fall under a similar umbrella in that they're not offering a lot of business training. And so you're really kind of thrown out as a actor in the world thrown out to figure out, how do I do this? Whether I'm a working talent or whether I own a company, how do I figure out all the components that have to make that company really successful? And the truth is, a lot of us end up taking years and years piecing it together, like our own apprentice, and getting people to train with and train under, to figure out what I need to not just survive, but also thrive in the business and get to the level at which we're getting to.    Anne: Absolutely. And even if you outsource, right? Let's just say you're a creative. I know a lot of creatives that come into it. They're like, okay, so this is great, I got my demo, (laughs). Then they're like, why am I not getting any work? Well, because you need to proceed on with the business, right? We need to do marketing, we need to do outreach. We need to reach out to potential clients and get the work. And then once we get the work, we have to figure out how to negotiate a fair price. Or if we're working with an agent, we have to get that agent. How are we going to bill them? And then once we bill them, how are we gonna make sure that they pay us? And then when they pay us, we gonna make sure we're taking out enough taxes for the end of the year, right, so that we can pay our taxes at the end of the year?    So, so many different pieces and components. And I think for me, as a voice talent first starting out, before I really branched off and started coaching and started VO Peeps and VO bus, I had to survive and get through all of that, which I believe most everybody has to kind of experience on their own. Even if you outsource for things, right, for editing, for accounting, you have to understand the business in order to know how to manage the people that you are hiring to help you with the business. Right? Because otherwise, you're kind of just sitting there in the dark and people could take advantage of you, or you're just not gonna understand how your business works or the things that need to get done. So I think first and foremost, being a BOSS requires education, education, education. Oh my gosh, from the start.   Lau: Yes. You have said the magic words, and you have to give yourself enough expertise to understand how to find experts, if that makes any sense. And I, I oftentimes would get frustrated saying, but wait, do I have to be a graphic designer in order to design for a designer for my website? And to some degree, yes, you do. To some degree, yes, you do. You can't run on an assumption that if I have enough money to invest, and I hire this person or this team, that they actually know what they're doing. You cannot assume that, do not assume it. And I will say, not to be a negative Nelly, but just to be a realist in the moment, most of the time they don't.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And so it doesn't mean to be overly critical, it just means to have the education behind you to say, well, I sat in on some courses, I took some seminars.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I did some homework in the industry, and I have a sense of what a marketing person does. I have an idea of what a designer would do for a website. I have these ideas that I can be a partner, not a subordinate in my own business, but a partner in crime to really make that vision happen. Don't sit back and be passive and say, well, I'm hiring an accountant, and they should know you'll do it.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: You have to know what an expense is. You have to know what a write-off is. You have to know, as you said, how to save for your quarterly taxes. Otherwise, you're gonna get stuck at the end saying, wow, I'm the loser in this because I didn't do the homework in understanding what my due diligence is in this process, I just completely put it in the whole basket of that professional who, sometimes they're great, but they still are not gonna know everything and about our industry.    Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. And honestly, I will say that for myself, being the tech girl that I am, being, the fact that years ago I taught, let's just, here's an example, marketing, ads, Google Ads, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, they've changed. Right? And so when I recently -- well, not recently, it was about a year ago or two years ago, I went to go hire someone to do Google Ads for me. Oh my goodness. So I didn't have a concept of what Google Ads needed at the time. Right? So how was I able to hire a qualified person to create ads for me, manage ads for me, and run them for me, and then charge me. Right? And I will say, I am the first person to say that I did not educate myself enough. I found someone who, sworn up and down, good references, good resource, that was supposed to be a wonderful person that could handle my Google Ads for me. And they did not work out at all for me. I got no return on my investment, and I lost money.    And so that alone, right, that risk that you're taking when you're hiring somebody or outsourcing somebody to help you run your business, that first of all takes courage. And that's a scary thing. And so educating yourself about what you need and the general outline -- like, if I need an accountant, what is that accountant gonna have to do for me? They're gonna have to balance my monthly checkbook. They're gonna have to import data from my banking accounts. We're gonna have to categorize that.    So understand that you need to do these things, and then you're gonna have to manage the person that's working for you. And remember, and this is probably one of the toughest things I have, multiple assistants. Assistants are human, right? Human people have bad days. Right? And if there's a bad day, or more than a bad day, or it turns out to be something where it's not helping you in your business, you're going to have to address that. And that's not necessarily a technical thing that you have to know or learn about, but that is people management. And oh my goodness, Lau. I don't know. Can you take a class on people management (laughs)?    Lau: Well, you know, they have whole degrees on management. They certainly have whole graduate degrees. But I'm here to tell you, and not to say that those are not worth taking part in, they could be.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: But I'm here to tell you, I am from the school of Old Knocks, and the School of Living Life from --   Anne: Hard knocks.   Lau: Hard knocks. And nothing you learn in school, number one, in a year or two will be obsolete, a lot of it. But number two can match what happens, the class, versus the real life. Nothing can match the nuances and complexities and sophistication and complication of dealing with people every day. And anyone who's in any kind of business will agree with that one. It is amazing, the skillsets that you need to accrue.    Anne: Oh goodness, yes.   Lau: The more diversity, the more skillsets, (laughs).    Anne: And you know, we always encourage outsourcing, right? To be a BOSS, go ahead. Outsource those things that don't bring you joy. Outsource those things that allow you to market yourself more. If you love being in the booth and you want more jobs in the booth, hire someone to help you market. But make sure that you know enough about that marketing and enough about managing that person so that they can truly help you grow. And so that when you do get more work, right, you're gonna be able to complete that as intended.    And if it doesn't work out, I think one of the hardest things for me has been firing somebody. That's a tough thing. That might be the toughest thing I've had to do, is fire people. And that is, whew. I'll tell you, that mentally is draining.(laughs). You know, not so much like if somebody's not performing as you feel, I think letting them go. And then I think the decent thing to do is to connect up with them and talk to them as you're letting them go. I don't wanna just ghost people or do it via a text or an email. Dealing with that is very, very tough.    So BOSSes, if you are outsourcing, make sure you know enough about the topic or whatever it is that you're outsourcing so that you can manage the person. And if that person doesn't work out, make sure that you have the courage and you will develop people skills probably. It doesn't make it easier, I don't think. I always hate letting somebody go. It's not a pleasant thing to do.   Lau: No, it's a hard one. It's a really hard one, especially if you're a people pleaser and you love to get along with people. It's a very difficult one. And another one is, and this is old school management versus a lot of new school theory, in that management does not mean everything is hands off and laissez-faire where you can walk away and take lunch all day and everyone will do everything for you. It is always, in my mind, a hands on skillset and craft that you need to be unafraid and assertive about your team being on top of what's going on, having them know that you know what's going on, the psychology that is important. But walking a fine line between over controlling and being --   Anne: Yeah. Micromanaging.   Lau: — called founder syndrome, that's the founder of the company not willing to budge and let go of old ways and old philosophies. How we balance that as managers of saying, well, yes, I started, I've grown. I have a philosophy and a model in this direction, but I wanna learn, I wanna pivot, I wanna grow. And knowing the difference -- here's one of the best ones I can give to your, to the audience. One of the best ones is know the difference between the people that are static — in other words, they were great at a certain timeframe — and others that are your growth people. They're the people that are gonna help you grow to the next place. Not everyone is that. And when we have an unrealistic expectation and get upset that this person is not moving with us, they're not shaping us, they're not shape shifting, they're not leading us, well, they're not meant to. They're not great at that. That's not why they're there. This other person you're bringing in, because they're great at that. That's what they do. They're there to take you to the next level. And know the difference between the two.    Anne: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a give and a take. Right? I mean, just because you are the boss doesn't mean that you are the be all, all knowing. And so I, I really find that there's such a delicate balance between happy people, happy employees, business grows. I really believe in keeping employees happy. And to do that, you have to pay them fairly. That's number one. And again, that's another mind twist for BOSSes who are starting out thinking, well, gosh, I don't have the money. A lot of what I hear on a daily basis is, I don't have the finances. I don't have the finances to invest. But yet still, if you don't have the finances to invest, I don't believe in your growth, in your company's growth, you're not gonna grow. And what are we here for? I mean, (laughs). I just feel like there's got to be a reason that you want to grow in your career and grow your business.    And so there has to be that mental education that you have for yourself that allows you to make that investment, but also trust in the people. Like hire people that can help you grow. I love the static and the growth people, and also, a back and forth listening to those people, because I don't know everything. Right? I hire people that make me look better. Right? Hire people that make you look good, and you can help them look good as well. I think it's a give and a take. And I think it's always like, if you hire people who are even better than you, I think that's really something to aspire to. I wanna hire somebody, obviously I wanna hire somebody that's better at me in accounting, because that's why I need accounting help. Right? I want somebody who's the expert, who's the best in that. And I wanna encourage them to want to work for me or work with me to help grow my company. So how am I incentivizing?    Lau: And you know, just realize that as you manage people, people, whether they're a contractor and they're coming and going, doing a one-off job for you, or if they're an employee and they're there on a consistent basis, I always run by the philosophy of, I wanna build them up. I wanna grow them and spring them up. Versus rip them down and tear them down. And I'll tell you, I oftentimes say this from some folks that I have worked with in the past, and I think to myself, quietly I think, if they had money and they had power, they would be super dangerous. Because they don't know how to manage people, and they would become tyrannical. And it's very easy to slide into a zone where I'm powerful, I'm omnipotent, I have money, I'm successful, I'm this, I'm that. Now the ego can't get through the door. The ego is larger than life. No one can tell me I'm wrong. No one can show me anything else.    Anne: Right.    Lau: A lot of dictators, we see this in the acting world, especially in academia, a lot of theater professors and people who are tenured, who can't be touched over years and years and years can become very, very tyrannical in nature and just rip to shreds those actors. And so I always had a concerted effort in the front of my mind, not that I have a nature for that, but don't ever go down that path. Always stay humble, stay kind, stay open to education, and just know that I don't know everything. There's so much you don't know. You're always learning --    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: — learning and learning. But keep your awareness up. If someone is trying to take advantage of you or someone is treating you a certain way that's uncomfortable or inappropriate, put your foot down. Be articulate. Let them know that. Like, don't let them walk all over you. And so it's a very fine line to stay right in the middle, right in that diplomatic middle place.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Where you're strong and you have an anchor and you have a state of mind, but you are open, you're kind, you're pivoting and you're learning and just sort of moving back and forth.    Anne: I think some of the most powerful people in business, and of course I've had, outside of the VO industry, I've had experiences obviously before I came into the voiceover industry. But I also try to make a point to really get outside my bubble and experience -- especially with my clients, right? I want to go into their world. I think some of the smartest and most powerful people that I have met have been ones who don't act like they know it all and actively say, I don't know it all. Or I wish I could answer that right now. What I think is this. And I truly believe those are the people that I'm like, wow. Like, wow. You just don't see that. I have such respect. He's a BOSS. Or she's a BOSS. And really, I feel that that has to be part of the mindset that, BOSSes out there, we need to stay humble, stay open to education, and educating yourself at all times. Like we are lifelong learners.    It's not easy. Right? I mean, I, gosh, I wish a lot of times you might look into the industry and people just make it look so easy. They're just getting all the jobs. They're just powerhouses in the industry. But I guarantee if you sit down with every one of them, they can tell you their story. And their story has not been all roses. I mean, it's not easy being a good BOSS. It, it just isn't. There's a lot of trials, tribulations, failures, missteps. I think if you really look at it in a positive light, you always learn from your mistakes. I mean, I don't mind making mistakes. I mean, I don't wanna make big costly mistakes. I try to avoid those. But it happens. I mean, like I said, I made a bad investment in trying to hire someone that was gonna do some ads for me. And it wasn't just that, I mean, it's been multiple, multiple things that have happened that I'm like, well, okay, I've learned now. Now I know. I don't want that. Or now I learned and I know better.    Lau: That's what I call learning money. (laughs).    Anne: Yeah. Learning money.    Lau: Learning money. But you don't wanna keep learning that lesson over and over and over again.    Anne: Exactly.    Lau: Just learn it and then move on and say, hey, I learned that. And I'll never forget that. Yeah. Because that was not the right move for us, but that's okay. That's all right. It happens.    Anne: I try telling people all the time, it's such a thing on the forums in, you know, Facebook groups, oh, I got a demo, and oh, I shouldn't have gotten that demo. And then people come, they'll come to me and they'll say, can you listen to my demo? And I shouldn't have gotten it. And oh God, it was a mistake and it was bad. But honestly, I just tell people like, you cannot beat yourself up over something. It's a learning mistake. Right? I mean, everybody starts somewhere. Right?    Lau: Yeah, I was just thinking of that.   Anne: And so, if you beat yourself up about, yes, it could have been a costly investment, but think of it as a learning investment. And now you know exactly what not to do. And so I always try to make people not feel bad about what they consider to be mistakes. because it, they bring with them all sorts of luggage, which it doesn't always serve them well in trying to build their businesses. Right? When you've got that luggage and that baggage and that bitterness. I mean, just move on, learn, move on. And yeah, it was a costly mistake. And it happens. It just does. And it happens to the best of us, guys. It does. It happens to BOSSes that have been doing this for years, like myself and Lau, I'm sure.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Every year, every year you're learning and you're growing, and you're doing things that are amazing and you're doing other things that you look back and you say, why did I do that? Or I don't think I'm gonna do that again.    Anne: Well, that didn't work, (laughs).    Lau: What was I thinking? You know? Wasn't time well spent. But you know what? I think the older and wiser you get, the more you realize I need to be able to take something away from every single experience that I'm doing. Because that's really the learning curve. Sometimes your biggest mistakes are your biggest learning curves. And sometimes you meet people within that mistake that become immense, immense partners in action for you and your lifetime. So always look for the silver lining of that cloud. Don't walk away and beat yourself up and waste energy and waste time and whatever. Say, listen, I got opportunity costs, I got learning money, (laughs) that I'm spending.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: But you know, I had a thought in my head, and this was like from 20 minutes ago, but I just wanted to say that some of the simplest things that can be blown out of proportion, if not done well, and doing the due diligence to do them well is so important. Like even budgeting, like even budgeting, understanding the difference between like what a fixed cost is versus what your variable costs are. if you don't know that from the beginning and you don't work on that, my goodness, the money is gonna go right through your hands like water. You won't even know what happened to it. You won't know how you spent it. You won't know how you got it. You won't know what to do with it. So your relationship to money is a very powerful and intimate and trusting relationship that you have to really respect and pay attention to, because it symbolizes so many important things for you in your life and in your business. So you have to really do that and not put it off for some day, someday. Do it early. Get yourself in really important patterns.    Anne: I think ultimately we create businesses to have a business and create a profit. Right? We wanna be able to create a profit so that we can I mean, ultimately, if this is your full-time gig, right? I wanna be able to pay the mortgage, and so with my business, I need to make a profit. And so, yes, relationship with money is huge. And I think we had a podcast episode on it not so long ago, or we've spoken about it before. Your relationship with money is critical. It's imperative that you address it and that you face it. Because you have to know at what point, are you making a profit? Are you not making a profit? What are you putting your money into?  And that's not to say that you shouldn't put your money into things, right? And that you should be clenching your fists and not wanting to invest in yourself or in your business, but knowing where that money is going. And then are you making a profit? Or at what point are you making a profit?    Now, profit can mean something other than monetary profit, especially when we're talking about just getting into the business. The first couple of years I was in the business, I expected to take a loss. And of course I reported a loss on my taxes, right? Because you're investing money, or investing money in your training and your equipment, in your demos, you're spending money on, at least I was spending money on pay-to-plays and auditioning and trying to build up that business, build up that clientele. And so as a business entity, I lost money the first couple of years. And of course, ultimately that shouldn't be your goal forever. But I mean, that's very typical I think for any small business just starting out, you're gonna invest more than you're gonna get back.    And so for those people, I love it, I always ask my new students to set goals. Some of the goals are like, I want a national spot in six months, or I wanna be able to make, you know, $100,000 this year, or whatever that is. And I like the fact that there's goals, but I want, I want your goals as BOSSes to also, if you educate yourself enough to figure out what are realistic goals for you in your business, and how much are you going to have to invest, and how much could you realistically get? I mean, of course there's always monetary goals, that I'd like to hit that six figure number this year. I think those are great. But I also think that you have to have the relationship with your money, first and foremost, to know where that money is going, in and out in profit and not profit, to really help you get an idea as to how to continue or to move forward and progress.    Lau: Have a real action plan in place, right, Anne? I mean, don't just fly by the city of your pants. It's okay to have those impulsive moves at times and have the improv spirit, but you have to have a plan of action in place. I would like to see you have it in place every quarter and readjust it, readjust it, readjust it, reinvent it, reenvision it. It should not stay the same year after year, quarter after quarter. You should have new ideas, new ideas. And it's okay if your business is capped. You don't have to go through the ceiling. Not everyone has to go through the ceiling. Some people say, I wanna grow to this level. I'm happy with this level.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: I know if I get above it, it's gonna be too stressful for me. Or I don't have enough of --    Anne: There's gonna be more work involved. Exactly.    Lau: — to help with that. And just know that, like go after your big dream, but be realistic about that big dream. I also wanted to say too, be careful of scams. It is a massive scam market now out there, just in the larger world, in the larger sphere. So as you're spending your money and investing in services and delegating and hiring people and growing your team, do your reference checks, do your research. Ask folks in the industry, do you know this one? Do you know this one? Do you know this one? Because you don't wanna make a mistake where you give a bunch of money to a scam outfit. That happens all the time. Every moment of the day, that's happening. And they're getting very crafty about looking like a real company.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Lau: So just buyer, beware, consumer, beware. Do the due diligence. And I guarantee you two or three people in the industry that you work with and trust are gonna know whether they are legitimate and real or not.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. BOSSes, educate. I think it all starts with education, all starts with education. And I mean, hopefully our discussion on being a BOSS and things that we've had to encounter ourselves has helped you to know that you're not alone if you're experiencing difficulty or you have questions or you don't know the answers, because a lot of times we don't either. And so that's why we have support groups out there. We have mentors, we have coaches that we trust and believe in. And the BOSSes, we're always here for you if you need us. And so always great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Great conversation. You know what I love the most about being a BOSS? I love developing relationships. Relationships that sometimes can last a whole lifetime. And that to me is one of the biggest payoffs of running a business, is getting to have amazing clients, amazing talent, and amazing colleagues and friends like you, Anne that just make my life happy.    Anne: And cohosts like you, Lau.    Lau:  Yay!   Anne: There you go.    Lau: Yay.    Anne: I love it. Love you, guys.    Lau: Love that. Love it.    Anne: Fantastic. Okay guys. So as individuals, I want to let you know that it can seem difficult not only to be a BOSS, but to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye!    Lau: Next time!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne & Lau delve into the energizing power of generosity + how integrating it into your personal and professional life can be incredibly rewarding. They explore various ways to incorporate acts of kindness into your daily routine, emphasizing that giving doesn't always have to be monetary – it could be a service, a skill, or even just a few minutes of your time each day. They also discuss the importance of giving without seeking recognition, and how simple gestures can strengthen connections and relationships. Listen in as they share their own experiences, provide insights on how businesses can contribute to organizations like 100 Voices Who Care, and inspire you to unleash the transformative impact of giving in your life and the lives of those around you.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Super Power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with ah, the one and only Lau Lapides.  Lau: Hey, Anne. Happy Saturday.  Anne: Happy Saturday, Lau. How you feeling this Saturday?  Lau: Awesome. As always. Excited to be here with you.  Anne: Me too. Me too. And you know why? I was gonna tell you before I asked you -- Lau: I have a feeling. Anne: -- do you know why?  Lau: I know what's coming up. I think you're gonna talk about giving today, giving, giving. Anne: I am. I wanna talk about giving. Yes. And I've mentioned this before, purpose beyond profit for your businesses. So, I mean, it's awesome to be BOSSes, right? It's awesome to be a business superpower and to be a BOSS. And I think a big part of being a BOSS is also understanding the power and the power and the grace of giving back. And I think that there are a lot of people who, if they had the opportunity, would really get a lot out of giving back.  I mean, anybody who's given to a charitable organization knows how good that can feel. And I truly believe that today people want to align themselves with businesses who are about more than just profit. You know? That they stand for something, they believe in something, they do good, they give back. I just think it's a good thing to do in your business. And I know it's hard if we're just starting out, trying to get our careers going. And I know there's a lot of people who are like, well, I don't know if I have the money to be able to donate at this time, but I'm going to ask you guys to think about your purpose. Think about the positive outcomes that can come from giving back. Lau, what are your thoughts about? Lau: I am so into that, and I have to say, this isn't an elitist sort of thought process of, oh, I've made it to this amount of money. I'm grossing in my business, then I can give, or this or that. It really is not contingent upon how much you're taking in or how much you're making. Really, I think the truth is, as a business owner and as a human being, a citizen of the earth, I like to say, you should always take a very small percentage of anything that you're bringing in and give it away to the charity of your choice. And I always say to people who haven't done it yet, who don't know what it is, and it's a little scary to do that, just start really small.  Like if you're going through a coffee line, like let's say you're going through the drive-through, pay it forward once a month and just pay for the car behind you, and see what that feels like. What does that do for you for that day? For me, it's very energizing, very inspiring, and very anonymous, which I also like too. It's really coming from the heart, not for recognition. Anne: I actually love that you said that. And there's a couple of different ways when you're giving, and I love the anonymous because I feel like when you're anonymously donating, you're really giving for the reasons coming from your heart. Now, of course, there are a lot of businesses who support different charities or support different organizations, and it becomes a public part of who they are as a business. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that, especially if it's to the point of they're able to contribute, and it's not a thing where it's front and center, where it becomes like, this is who we are and this is what we're doing for so and so. But it becomes just a side part of what they do on a daily basis.  And I love that you said start small because it doesn't have to be big. As a matter of fact, Lau, our sponsor 100 Voices Who Care has a really cool idea on how you can give and really make an impact. And basically it's a community effort where you can donate $100 a quarter. So that means $100 a quarter, four times a year, $400 total for the year. And essentially, if you can get 100 people together in that organization, they'll be 100 people, that can be a total of $10,000 a year -- Lau: Ooh, that's a lot  Anne: — that can be given away. And so actually that's a large amount. So for you, making your $100 contribution four times a year, and then doing that just minimally, together with however many members that are contributing, can actually make a real difference. And then essentially these members get together, and they do their pitch for their favorite charity, and they say, well, I really like to give to this charity because I feel strongly about how they're helping animals, or they're helping needy people in other countries, or they're -- whatever they might be doing. And you'll be within this group making your pitch. And at the end, everybody votes on what charity that will ultimately win that money. And then what's so great about it is that, even if it doesn't go to the charity of your choice, it's going to a charity.  Lau: Exactly. It's giving back to the world, to the people, the animals, the children, the environment, whatever your causes are, it's going in all of those directions. So in essence, you are personally involved with the giving to all of those different worlds. And to me, I'm about to actually join that organization, 100 Voices Who Care, and I'm very excited about that. Because I'll tell you, I'll be perfectly honest, I've been trying to find organizations to work with, and it's so hard to give money. It sounds ridiculous. But it's hard to get people to call you back. It's hard to find point people. It's hard to find anyone who has information about the organization. And I was very relieved to see this particular outfit at our conference recently that we attended. And I was like, wow, this answered all of my prayers as a business and also as a human being. Like, you're gonna take care of a lot of this for me, but I also have a voice and I can pitch an organization that I'm interested in giving a voice to.  Anne: It's wonderful. Lau: That's exciting.  Anne: And who's leading the organization, who was there at the conference, if you guys were there and didn't get a chance to stop by and see her, is Claire Dinsdale, who is a voice actor herself, and who is fronting that organization to help be able to give to charities. And it's just wonderful because it's something where I wanna feel like I can make a big impact, but I don't necessarily have a lot of money to give. But together we can really make a huge impact. And I think one of the things I thought long ago was the fact that if I was able to have an organization, let's say like my VO Peeps and my VO BOSSes, that now that I've formed this organization, there is this segment of it that I do want to be able to give back if I'm able to give back.  And so it's one of the reasons I formed the VO Peeps Scholarship Fund and have been giving scholarships away for, gosh, close to 11 years. And again, it really is a matter of the community because I accept donations from the community as well as in-kind gifts. So it doesn't always have to be money either. It can be your time, it can be coaching time, it can be equipment, it can be all sorts of different things that you can donate that can really mean something to a person's career. And so that became a very integral part of the VO Peeps business model. And so I really encourage all of you BOSSes out there that if it is possible to either join an organization and get that feeling of being able to contribute to that organization, to give back, I truly believe it makes the world go round. Right? I mean… Lau: It's huge.  Anne: Even if you're giving anonymously, I think it's just, everything comes back. I believe in good karma. I truly believe that it helps in the growth and positive reinforcement of the world and our humanness to each other.  Lau: Hmm. So true. I mean, the karma of that, if you believe in karma, if you believe in that boomerang energy that what you put out into the world will come back to you — I mean, we wouldn't do it for that reason. But I do deeply believe in that. I absolutely believe in that. And I did wanna just give a super quicky anecdote, Anne, about a moment in time that's running through my head right now, where my daughter — and I hope she's not listening because she likes to be anonymous in everything she does — my daughter, about a year ago or two years ago, young kid, she was a young kid, teenager, she saw that one of the customers that came into a store she was working at desperately needed a walker and did not have the funds to get a walker, and was really, really struggling. And on her birthday, I -- this kind of blew me away — on her birthday, on my daughter's birthday, she decided to take the money that we gave her on her birthday and buy her a walker, which was a very expensive walker in the store.  Anne: Yeah. Wow.    Lau: And give it to her. And her and my son delivered it to their door. And I said, that's amazing. Are you sure you wanna do that? They didn't have any money saved, and that was good money for her to do something with. She said, yeah, I can't think of anything I really want or need, but this woman Sarah, needs to walk. And I would feel better giving it to her. Anne, she did that. Long story short, I was amazed. I'm trying not, not to get verklempt about it.    Anne: What a wonderful story.  Lau: I drive up the street now, Anne, and I see this woman, she lives in the area, crossing the street with the walker. And every time I see her, I just quietly, she doesn't know me, she doesn't know I'm the the mother.      Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: I think my daughter gave her that.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.      Lau: And it's not about the walker, it's about freedom. And so I always think it's not about the money. If you give a dollar, if you give a million dollars, it's kind of the same, because symbolically what it's really giving to a person, confidence --     Anne: Sure.      Lau: — energy, freedom, all sorts of things that you have to think of it in that way. Don't whittle it down to just monetary. It could be service you do, right?      Anne: Absolutely.     Lau: It could be absolutely something you own that's precious to you that you give to someone else. It could be anything. Right?     Anne: Yeah. I love that story. That's such a beautiful story.      Lau: Amazing story, right?      Anne: Yeah.      Lau: It's amazing. And that taught me a lesson.      Anne: Yeah. And there's so much to be said for when you see someone in need, just being able to help them out, what it can do for you internally, mentally. And I think that of course, as we, again, we say over and over and over again, as we run our businesses, I mean, we are all human, and our businesses are very personal. It's a very personal and proud of our brand. So whatever we do outside of our job, right, outside of our business, affects our business in a lot of ways indirectly. And so I think being able to feel good about what you're doing and feeling good — and again, we're always talking about in our business, let's charge what we're worth. And I still believe in that. But I also believe that if you can help another talent out, or if you can help someone else out around you, then that is just going to contribute to the overall good of your business and of you personally.      Lau: And I do think some of the best times to give, Anne, are not in dire times. I think we always connote that, oh, if someone's starving or they're in war, whatever, of course they need help in assistance. And of course we should assist them. But it's not the only time. Maybe there's a zoo or an animal farm that needs maintenance, constant daily maintenance to feed the animals, clean the animals, keep them, whatever. Or maybe there's the trees in the forest that need-- you know, we are big in terms of Israeli trees being planted every year.      Anne: Sure.    Lau: And we give money to plant new trees every year. so that we can grow that new forest. So thinking about what am I doing to maintain, what am I doing to provide a future for populations or for the environment? It's not absolutely only in dire, dire circumstances. Sometimes it's in good circumstances in order to keep it maintained and keep it healthy.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that really it is, it's something that I would say, if you haven't already put it into your business plan or into your daily life, really take some time to consider what can I do? What can I do to help give back? And again, as Lau mentions, it doesn't have to be monetary. I mean, it could be your time, it could be some other service that you can provide. If you don't have the money to donate, it could be your service. And that could mean just as much, if not even more. I mean, be a tutor for a child that might need help reading or there's just so many, so many things that we can do.    I have to say, take a part of your workday. I wouldn't feel bad. You know what I mean? If we're busy and we're like, okay, we're focused on our work -- I think you should set aside a part of your workday to consider what am I gonna do to help give back? Maybe even it's something as simple as contributing to, I'm gonna say a Facebook forum in a positive way where you might be helping other talent. Gosh, I know, Lau, this has been going back and forth about people who ask questions in the forums. And some people get really angry about having to answer the same question multiple times. They're trying to pick my brain. And yes, I get that whole thing. But I do believe that as a good service towards people coming into the industry, you can give a little bit and give some helpful advice without sacrificing, giving away the farm. I mean, gosh, the VO BOSS podcast over and over I've said, it was something that I wanted to do to give back to the community, to just have a resource that people could go to.    Lau: Exactly. Right.    Anne: And so, a lot of my stuff that I do, I have that whole series on teachable moments that I put on YouTube. 'cause I love teaching, I love sharing. And yes, I will be the first person to say that. Yes. Some people, when they come to me for coaching, they say, well, I saw you on your videos, or I listened to your VO BOSS podcast. Gosh, Lau. I'm sure people talk to you about that too. I am so grateful for the people that come to me that say, I listen to your podcast religiously, or thank you for what you're doing. And yes, I wanna work together. So that's the bonus.    Lau: I'm blown away. Bonus, bonus, bonus.    Anne: That's just a bonus. Yeah. It wasn't the original intent. And I think that that is obvious too. Right?    Lau: I'm blown away by that. Yeah. We get comments all the time about this wonderful podcast and it's like, woo! I feel like superheroes, we're spending our time together on a Saturday and doing our thing. But then when you hear and you see how it lands, how it affects people, how it has the potential to change someone's life — well, in essence, I mean, that's giving too. You're not giving physical money, but you're giving time. Time is energy. Time is value. Time is money. Right?    And I do wanna mention too, another thing I tend to do, which is hard, I'm not gonna say it's easy. I take as many surveys as I can. And that's the thing that everyone hates and doesn't wanna do. And they get the survey from every hotel and every whatever. And I literally sit there and I think, okay, I have to do this for them. I have to do this. And then if it goes too many windows, too many pages, I can lose my patience. But if it can be done in five minutes, I will do it for them. Because I say, I know they need that feedback, and I'm the person to give it to them in a really constructive way. And that's giving of yourself too.    Anne: And you know what? That's so funny cause you just reminded me because of VO Atlanta -- I'm just gonna say VO Atlanta is one example where the staff, I'm going to say the staff just ran their tushes off and bent over backwards trying to help me. And Lau, if you remember, you were a part of that one night when I was starving to death. And so the staff really went above and beyond. And I said to them, give me the email address of your manager. I will write an email saying how wonderful you were for me tonight. Please, I want to do that for you. And I'm --   Lau: I love that. I love that.   Anne: — very much willing to do that because it helps. It does.    Lau: It totally helps. You don't see it. You don't hear it, but you have to believe it's there. It's like if the tree's falling, do you hear it? Is it happening? Yes, it's happening. Yes, it makes impact. And yes, you don't always need the accolades, you just need the knowledge of knowing it's happening. And I noticed you neglected to mention that I had to threaten the whole staff at that Marriott to get you like some turkey sticks or whatever we got you. And that was my charity for that night.    Anne: Yeah, you had to threaten everybody. But the person that came through, the person that came through for me, they bent over backwards.    Lau: They did. They sure did.    Anne: To help me. Yeah. They really did.    Lau: They did.    Anne: To get me that turkey sandwich.    Lau: They went beyond, they went beyond customer service, beyond hotel service. That happened to me one time up in the Berkshires and it was a hotel, I think it was a Marriott. It was great. It was super great. And I needed baby powder one night. You know, maybe they thought I had a baby, which I didn't, but I needed baby powder. And my husband goes to the front desk and it's like 11 at night. Do you happen to have any baby powder? And the woman who has babies, young children who works at the desks said, we don't sell it here, but hold on, let me run to my car. She runs to her car and gets it from her baby in the car. This is a hotel rep.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And gives it to my husband and said, here, give it to your wife. I know sometimes when you need certain things, it's just good to have them. And I never forgot that.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: I never forgot. That was so above and beyond to me.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Was so personal, so personalized --   Anne: Right.    Lau: — to do something like that, you know, whether it's shoe polish or a toothbrush, or baby powder, whatever it is, it's the humanness of the connection and relationships we have together. Was that an extreme need for me? No, I could've lived without it. But the humanity of the honest connection between people is what builds the good juju in the world. Not always, here, let me give you physical cash. Let me help you and do something to make your life easier and it'll connect us for a moment. To me, that's worth everything. I love that. I love those moments.    Anne: And it makes me think of our clients, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Sometimes can we extend a little bit to our clients once in a while? Do you know what I mean? Like if they need a favor or you know, gosh, they need a pickup like yesterday and is it three words, and they're ready and willing and able to pay, and you're like, you know what? No, it's okay. Like you're just building that good relationship. As a matter of fact, I'm the type of person, oh gosh, I don't even charge. I mean, unless they have completely new scripts, I don't charge. I embed in my price, I embed a certain amount of pickups to it. And if it's a company that I've worked with for a while and I've got a good relationship with them, I'm happy to extend a freebie here and there in a pinch for them, absolutely. Because honestly, the time it would take me to draw up the invoice and charge them and worry about all that, just, it  wasn't even worth the time. So I do think that also in your businesses, you can extend goodwill towards your clients as well and not be threatened that you're not charging what you're worth.    Lau: We used to call that in the olden days, don't nickel and dime people.    Anne: Yes.    Lau: And that means not just getting the pennies from someone, but also the bother, the energy, the exhaustion, the stress.    Anne: Yes. That's what it is.    Lau: Everything that surrounds that transaction. And you have to know intuitively, is it worth it quickly to do that or not? Is it better to just say, hey, let's not worry about that right now. Let's worry about the bigger picture right now of things, versus --   Anne: Let me get you your job on time. Yeah.     Lau: That's a huge gift.   Anne: Let me give this job to you on time. And I think -- yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's something that you can consider every once in a while. Especially if you've developed a great relationship with a client. Now, clients that nickel and dime you, well that's a different story.    Lau: That's a different story.    Anne: Yeah. That's a different story. So I think we have to make wise decisions, but I think for the most part, if you know your client, you're gonna know what the right decision is. You're gonna know if they're nickel and diming you, but I truly believe that a little goodwill can really, really go a long way. And that's personally in your business all the way around. And so, yeah. I like how you associate it with the stress that's wrapped around the request or the stress that's wrapped around the transaction. And I think alleviating as much stress as possible, I'll tell you that's my goal lately, Lau (laughs).    Lau: And that's a great goal to have.   Anne: I don't want stress. I don't want stress in my business.    Lau: No, no one does.    Anne: And I think stress or pain or -- I don't want any of that. I just want joy. I want joy surrounding my job. And sometimes that's tough to do, but I'll tell you what, it's so much easier when you are a BOSS yourself and you're in control of it, because you realize that you have control of those things. You have control over your goodwill towards your clients, your goodwill towards humankind, how you feel on a daily basis and how that translates into your performance, and how it translates into your business. It is absolutely up to you. And it's one of the things that I'm so grateful. I just love the fact that I'm working for myself. And I mentioned this to you just recently, Lau, that I don't wanna go through the stress of if I'm working for someone, why did I work so hard to build my own business? If I wanna experience stress like that? I don't. So anything that causes stress like that, basically I've gotta figure out what I can do to wipe that stress away.    Lau: That's right. And to circle that back with that idea of giving -- and by the way, we have a great term. Most people know that I'm Jewish. We have a great Yiddish term called mitzvah. When you do  a mitzvah, when a boy or girl turns 13, we have a bar or bat mitzvah. it means they are now an adult, and they really need to start thinking about giving, give, give, give, give back. Don't take, take, take, take, give, give, give, give. And that's the whole purpose of a bar or bat mitzvah. So the mitzvah of the giving is to de-stress, to relax, rejuvenate. Give someone the joy, the pleasure, the peace of mind that what they're doing is a life worth living, is goals worth having, and that you're there in their community to support them. I mean, I'd love to see that in the world at large. We'd have a better world if everyone could think in the way in which you are thinking. And as like, to de-stress someone is to give them a huge gift, whether it's a smile. It could be an emoji. It could even be like --   Anne: A compliment.    Lau: A compliment. Like pay attention to someone else for a moment and call attention to something that they're doing really well or something that impresses you or something that delights you. 'Cause a lot of times someone might be thinking it and not articulate it.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So kind of motivate yourself to articulate those positives. And when you feel the negatives coming on, and you wanna criticize, and you wanna judge, just stop for a second. Like stop and think and say, do I really need to give that out to this person? Is it really necessary? Yep. Or would it be better to build them up? That's a mitzvah.    Anne: Do I need to put that out? Do I need to put that? I love that. Do I need to put that out into the world?    Lau: That's better than money. Honestly. Sometimes that's better than money to say, I recognize you, you matter. You're someone and you're doing something really awesome today. Thanks for doing that. Ooh. Oh my gosh. No one ever, no one tells me that. You need to tell people that.    Anne: And I say, bring that into the booth. We'll just keep going. Lau, every time you mention something that's great. Now I'm like, (laughs). Okay, so, so can we bring that feeling into the booth? And I'm always talking to my students and I've found, I say it more and more is that copy, you need to serve the copy. You need to serve the person you're speaking to. Your delivery needs to come from the heart. It needs to come from a place of service. It's not about how good you sound doing it. It's a place of service. You're helping someone.    And I think if you can take any script that you're doing, commercial, corporate, medical, whatever that is, and you have that place of service, that place of heart where what you are saying is going to benefit and help someone in the end, I really believe that that can be a major impact on your performance. And a good one, a good one at that. Because I believe that the connection that is formed when it comes from that place, right, that place in you really makes a difference in the read. It makes difference on the people listening to it as well.   Lau: I just know personally for myself, when I'm able to give something whatever form it's in, I feel so good. Like right now, I just got a little hot in my like skin and I thought, ooh, am I having a hot flash? No, it's, I'm thinking with about all the ways in which we give, and I'm literally sweating right now because it's so fun to me, it's so exciting because it's not just about giving, it's about seeing how it ripples into the world and into their universe and ultimately your universe too is like seeing the water. Like when you throw the stone, it's the ripple effect of giving.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: I love that. That's so cool. To me, it's like a little artistic venture. You don't know where it's gonna go and how it's gonna land, but you just know you threw the rock out there, and you got the ripples going. And so it kind of got me all hot and bothered. (laughs) Fun stuff.    Anne: What a great conversation. What a wonderful — so yeah. BOSSes, one more time, we're gonna talk about the 100voiceswhocare.org. Big impact. Simple mission, big impact, 100 Voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. So if you wanna find out more about how this all works, make sure you visit 100voiceswhocare.org and find out more. And tell Claire we said hello and we love her, and we love her as a sponsor of this show. So make sure you check out 100voiceswhocare.org. And of course, as always our sponsor ipDTL, we love them. Find out more at ipdtl.com. So everybody, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week, mwah. Love you, BOSSes.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL. 

Join Anne & Lau as they embark on a fascinating exploration of the online casting world and analyze the controversial role of Fiverr in the voiceover industry. They shed light on the complex ethical issues prevalent in the freelance industry, emphasizing the significance of transparency, fair compensation, and adherence to industry standards. Listen in as The Bosses discuss online casting's ability to provide global exposure, momentum, and representation for emerging voice talents.  Learn valuable insights into navigating the evolving world of online casting while maintaining ethical practices and fostering a thriving voiceover community.   Transcript   Anne: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have my amazing, lovely, lovely boss co-host Lau Lapides with me. Yay!   Lau: Hey everyone! Hi Anne! Back, back, back. We're back.   Anne: Lau, I've got a dirty word that I heard.    Lau: And I've got a jar that you're going to put a quarter into.   Anne: Every time you say that word, that F-word, I mean, and I'm not --   Lau: No…   Anne: — talking the F-word that most people think. Or maybe if you're in the voiceover industry, you know what that F-word is?   Lau: What?   Anne: It's not failure either, because that's also another F-word. But the word Fiverr.   Lau: Oh! Quarter in the jar.   Anne: Quarter in the jar every time you say the word Fiverr. So I think we're going to be rich, maybe, Lau   Lau: Quarter in the jar.   Anne: After this podcast. So yeah, it's a hot topic. It's always been a hot topic. And I think that it's a considerably bigger topic because I've been in the industry forever. So before there was Fiverr, there was other places that --   Lau: Always.   Anne: —  always places that like Fiverr. And I think now we just really hear so much more about it because we're all online and everybody can talk about it in groups easily. And so we should talk. Lau, what are your thoughts about -- and before you just come right out and say what your thoughts are about Fiverr, I mean let's talk about business. I think that when you talk about businesses, you're always going to have businesses that are luxury brands, right?   Lau: Hmm, yes.   Anne: You know, that sell luxury brands or luxury, you know, the idea of luxury. And then you have the other that are economical.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And yeah, cost savings and efficient. And so I'm going to start by saying I think that that Fiverr fits in that model that probably isn't elegant brands, but it is the more cost efficient. And here's where you can get something quick, easy, cheap, and fast.   Lau: Yes. Yeah, I'm going to second that and agree with that. But it's interesting because the way I frame Fiverr and sites that are similar to that, the way I frame that in my business brain is under the umbrella or framing in a context of how do I start my business or how do I gain more momentum in my business and how do I get known in my business? This is  one way that is a way that you can build your client list. And the interesting part about a Fiverr is if you choose to go that direction, you have to know that people are going offline and it's wild west.    So they're building their client list, they're charging all their rates that they're deciding on, they're communicating directly with their clients after awhile. So they're utilizing it as sort of a jumping platform to get out there, get known, and have Fiverr do a lot of the marketing for them so they can get found, and once they're found, then they start to make the rules themselves. They start to build their own clients themselves. So there's something to be said for having a platform. And now this is very common. Marketplaces all over the place are housing voice-over talent and voice-over services so that they are in essence marketing you. You're not doing the marketing, so that potential clients and prospects can find you.   Anne: So, we should clarify. I mean, there are some platforms -- I'm not going to talk too much about the other ones, but there are some online casting platforms that you cannot take the client off of. I love what you said about how it's a jumping point. I mean, look, online casting sites, you know, SEO works on frequency of words, right? And so search engines are built to be good search engines. And so if you're looking for a voice talent or a voice actor, and you do a search at the Google prompt, then essentially they want to be a good search engine and serve back the right material.    So when you've got online casting sites and you've got people that have thousands on thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice actor — guess who has the best SEO, right? Those online casting sites. And honestly, it's almost impossible for you as a single individual business to go up against that SEO because you've got so many matches, right? And so the search engine says, well, the first, if you're searching for voice artists, well, the first place that comes up that term or that word, that search term, would be a casting site that has thousands upon thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice artist.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And so I love the fact that you use it to get your jumping off point, your marketing, use it for its SEO. And it's well known that Fiverr has great SEO, and as well as the other online casting sites, Voice123, Voices.com, they all have great SEO. And so to get yourself found of hundreds of thousands of people, that is absolutely an approach to doing that. And I'll tell you what, starting off understanding the type of business that Fiverr is, or some of these online casting sites, they're in business to make money. And also the people that are on these platforms are making money. Now, are they making great money? Are they making, you know, is it, You know what I mean?    Like, if you're on Fiverr and you're making money for your family, I'm not even talking voiceover, but you're doing something — and again, this is a global site where there's lots of representation. And we live in the United States, which is very privileged, I'm just going to say, right? There might be people on there that are from other countries where $5 to them is a lot of money, right? And it's a way that they can feed their families. And so I can't, I can't, I can never shun the business. I mean, I can, I can say to them, well, I don't like their advertising. I don't like their ethics. I don't like their lack of transparency for any business, right? And I can choose whether or not I want to associate myself with that business. And I do that every single day. Right?   Lau: Right.   Anne: We do that every single day. So as a voice talent, is it horrible for you to be on Fiverr? And again, there's such. back and forth. And for me, Lau, I've always maintained that, mind your own business. Everybody starts in a different place. Gosh, when I started before there was Fiverr, there was Freelancer. And I'm going to say that --   Lau: I remember that.   Anne: And on Freelancer, it was honestly everybody was underbidding. Everybody was underbidding each other to get the job. What's the difference? Whether they call it Fiverr or Freelancer, start with an F. F word. That's what happened but yet when I was beginning, there wasn't a lot of places there wasn't a lot of opportunities. Look if we're gonna be viable businesses we need to have opportunities right for work and we need to know where those opportunities are and so if they show up in a place like Fiverr, that's an opportunity. Now you make the choice whether or not you go and and and act upon that opportunity.   Lau: And the coach in me says, listen, you know, as a business person, we're in business. We always talk about this like, mind your own business is right.   Anne: Yes, mind your own business.   Lau: Like, you want to set industry standards. Yes, you want to have fair working conditions and and good scale pay. That being said, we're still entrepreneurs slash solopreneurs. And we do have to make decisions, sometimes tough decisions, sometimes controversial decisions about how we put plates on the table, how we take care of our families or our rent, how we deal with everyday waking up and going after our business practices. Like we have to make individual decisions, so as you listen to the cacophony of voices that are out there that are making strong suggestions or they're giving their subjective advice, we have to do that. But we also have to come home and say, let me sift through all of that and let me make my own decisions about what works for my own career. I think that's important.   And I do want to say, one of the perceived negative sides of a Fiverr is the fact that you're not leading people in. They're coming in through their marketing and they're finding you. But they're also finding a lot of competitors to you on the same site.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: So you're in a pool on the same site with direct competitors. So you just have to know, what's my A-game? What makes me unique and artful? What separates my branding from their branding? What makes me get found? Because they're not coming in just finding you. They're finding potentially hundreds of others that are in your category or in your compartment. And you have to work a little harder to separate yourself from the in-house competition that they're finding.    Anne: And you know what's so interesting, too, is, I'm not the person to judge if you're on Fiverr or not. I always say, I'm not here to judge you if you're on Fiverr or you're not on Fiverr. What I am concerned about is that you price yourself what you know your worth and that you price yourself knowing your worth. And understanding that just because you're new or you're less experienced does not mean that you have to price yourself less.   Lau: Mm.   Anne: And so I always try to instill that you need to price yourself what you're worth.    Lau:  Well, It's an interesting topic --   Anne: It is, it is.   Lau: — because it's like any other, I call it a marketplace because --   Anne:  Yeah, it is.   Lau: — you may not find other competing businesses to Fiverr itself, but the businesses under the umbrella of Fiverr, many of them are competitive. So it's like you're on a marketplace, you're in a marketplace. It's like you're in a supermarket, right? Who else is on the shelf right next to you?   Anne: And you can price yourself low, whether you're on Fiverr or not. That's the thing. And I think that if you do that, then you are undervaluing yourself. And it can be, if you become good at it and you do a ton of volume work at a low price, then it will start to probably impact the industry. If you become known enough, where you do enough jobs, then it can start to impact the industry. If you are not doing it, somebody will. It always happens. And again, it's not under our control necessarily. I think there will always be bottom feeders, and always in any, any industry.    And so I think for you, you have to worry again, mind your own business, and worry about what you're charging and making sure that you're charging enough so that you are getting paid fairly. And it's not like, this is an online business, right, like it's a brick and mortar where we're doing unethical things, hiring labor that's not minimum. Now there is the argument that people get paid less than minimum wage. But minimum wage where?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: Minimum wage in what country? Minimum wage. And I get that. I mean if you want to make a blanket statement in saying people get paid less than minimum wage. Well, first of all I've been offered less than minimum wage to do voiceover and I always choose to say no to that. Because for all the times that I've, and back in the day when I might have said, oh, I'll think about it. I mean, it's always better for me, and I think for most people, to just say no for less than minimum wage, because look, I didn't give up my job, you know, and to go into business for myself to get less than minimum wage.   Lau: Right.   Anne: And that time is better spent finding somebody who understands my value and values me at my fair rate.    Lau: You brought up a really, really important point, though. It's like we're always thinking of Fiverr from our point of view, which --   Anne: Mm-hmm.   Lau: — many of us are in the US or in North --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: — America or UK, but people are on there from all over the world. And I know when I've hired a service off of Fiverr, you know, I've met amazing people from Sri Lanka and Philippines and on and on it goes, from Russia, I mean, there are artists from everywhere, creators from everywhere. So in one sense, if you come out of your perspective into a more global perspective, you're giving a lot of artists potential work, where they live and what their experiences are, they would never be able to get on their own. They would never have the money to market their business. They would never physically be able to go to a brick and mortar where they live. So it's a marketplace that is very important to a lot of people globally speaking that just would not have the placement opportunities that we have here in the states. It's an interesting way of looking at it.   And then of course, when I've hired someone, we may go offline, and then their rates completely change. Then we're in a total other stratosphere. We're no longer in the Fiverr territory. We're in this person's business territory. And then I will pay them what they think they're worth, and that changes, completely changes, and sometimes it actually gets very pricey. It gets very expensive and rightly so, because their services are worth a lot, oftentimes.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: So thinking of it as, I don't know how you would say it, but sort of a layered approach. It's not just, oh, they don't charge a lot of money, you're not paying people what they're worth. That's the meeting time, that's the launching place. And then where it goes from there is into a very different kind of bargaining and negotiation. You have to expect that too. No one I have met and worked with on Fiverr stays at that beginning rate. No one.   Anne: And again, I think that I think that you can off the bat — and I don't know I am not I'm not on Fiverr, and I have I've spent very little time on Fiverr. So it's interesting that we've chosen this. This is our topic today because --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — I don't have a lot of experience in fiber and I try not to to make statements, you know what I mean, about Fiverr not understanding the impact or having direct experience. I signed up so that I could look for, you know, different types of employees. I've never hired anybody off of Fiverr. However, I've had enough experiences. I understand the concept of Fiverr. I understand, you know, I talked to enough people that are on it, getting their experiences on it. And again I feel it really is one of those things where it is up to to the individual, whether they choose to be on Fiverr, to associate with that. For me, it was just one of those things where I didn't yet need another platform. I just didn't have time to really take part in it or --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — do what I needed to do. I don't know, honestly, Lau, if I have to start with a certain amount of money or if I have to work up to it and I didn't have time for that because thankfully my business is doing well. And so I don't have to rely on a platform like Fiverr, but boy, in the beginning, I did. I relied on those platforms, online casting platforms, not Fiverr, but to pick up clients and to get my name out there and to get experience so that I could ultimately be in a successful business where ultimately I didn't need it.   Lau: Right. And you're also having, well, you're having tremendous diversity on a platform like that, which I love because I have a vested interest in working with as much diversity as possible --   Anne: Mmm.   Lau: — giving people opportunities that they may not have.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: And also young people, like anyone under the age of 30, I consider young. Anyone under the age of 30, they don't oftentimes know where to go. They don't have the business practices. They don't have advisors, even if they are lucky enough to go to college and get an education. Even in university environments oftentimes, you're not getting business practices or where to go or any real placement. So you have to think back, for those of you listening in, that if you are 40 and up, where were you at 18? Where were you at 22? What were you thinking at 28? And I know a lot of us were thinking, help, I don't know even what questions to ask. Like, I do a graphic design business, I do a PR business, I create, you know, music for people. I don't know how to get clients. I'm a creative. I don't have that brain.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So a marketplace like Fiverr was also filling a need of so many people that literally had no idea how to build a business. No idea at all in saying, hey, come in, we'll give you your start. Hopefully you'll stay with us, but if you don't, we'll give you your start, and you'll be able to make those connections all over the world that you want to make. And now that we're all online, you don't even need a brick and mortar in a lot of these professions. So you're all online. So you need the marketplace in order to do that.   Anne: Well, and of course, there was a hole in the marketplace. And honestly, it kind of makes me think about, well, what's going on with AI in the creative world? Not just synthetic voices, but we're talking art and writing and copywriting and the creative where AI tools have come out that can write things for you, that can generate art for you. I do believe that ultimately if you can use these as tools, and that includes online platforms, use them as tools to help grow your business, to grow --   Lau: That's right.   Anne: — what it is. And of course, now I'm not saying that people that steal art or AI that is stealing art is right. I believe this is evolving to a point where we will ultimately come up with standards, guidelines, and laws that will protect our rights --   Lau: Yes.   Anne: — protect our art, protect our writing. And it needs to happen. There needs to be this sense of injustice about it all, or this anger, or this stand up and kind of fight for what you believe in. And I believe in the end it will work out. I'm not going to stand here and stomp my feet if you're on Fiverr and say, you're ruining the industry for me. Because, honestly, I found my own industry. I've found my own clients and that's okay, that it works for my business. And again I like to always look at the positive thing ,the positive spin of everything. I think that Fiverr filled the need. If Fiverr didn't do it, it would be some other company that would have filled the need --   Lau: No question.   Anne: — for that.   Lau: Yeah, no question.   Anne: It's just the way business works here. And there needed to be an option for people that were looking for an effective voice. And I'm just going to say, those people, if they didn't go to Fiverr, they were probably going to one of the other platforms, like Upwork or whatever the other ones would be, so that they could get reasonably priced voiceover. Now, a lot of times, yes, do they value voiceover? It's a perception, right?   People value things in different ways. I think it's just a fact of life, right? They think, yes, this voice contributes to our brand. And as artists, we want to say, yes, our voice has an impact on your brand, and it can help sell for your brand, and it can help elevate your brand. But there are some people who don't see that value, right? And I'm not going to bother fighting those people, nor am I going to bother trying to get work from those people. Because they'll be the first ones to turn around and complain that they paid too much, and then give me tons of revision. And I've done that enough times in my business to know, right? I've accepted a low-ball offer, not too many times, but enough to know that they're usually the most trouble.    So the people that are coming to Fiverr, right? Their expectations, right? And their appreciation of the value may not be where we want it to be. And that's just something to understand, right? I mean, if we are businesses and we can educate our clients, our potential clients on our value and what we can do for them, then I don't think we have problems.   Lau: I agree, Anne, totally wholeheartedly. And I think that we as individuals and as business owners and as citizens of the world create our own morality. We really do. Like we create our own sphere of morality.   Anne: Oh, I like that.   Lau: And you really have to go with what your heart and soul is telling you. And you really have to do it with with an honest heart and a full heart. You're not going with mal-intention. You're not going to hurt someone. You're not going to slight anyone. Like you have to believe that in our industry the space is big enough that you're gaining clients. A lot of them have no level of knowledge of what a rate sheet is or what should be charged or what could be charged. So you're in essence, every time you meet a potential client, you're schooling them, you're teaching them, you're building your own morality base to say, okay, we're meeting at this level.    Listen, what's the difference between that and giving away a free hour of coaching? Or giving away, I'm gonna do like 50% off of class. I want to introduce my value to you. I want to build trust with you. I want you to have a little taste test of what we do. And if you love it and if you want to buy into that and invest into that, then the investment is going to change. We all know that.    It's the same with Fiverr. I want to give you a little taste test. Let me just give it to you for a very low rate. But if you really want to invest in this, then we're going to go to the rates that are established by my business, by me. Because you're already buying into the trust factor of working with me and what I'm offering you is filling the need. So it's very similar to that if you look at it in that way. There's tons and tons of free offers out there, tons and tons of discounts out there. It's ultimately to get buy-in to invest in what the full rate would be for that product or service.   Anne: That's an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah, you're going to buy in or you're going to get a sample. And you know, it's interesting because for me, I want to project my business as not being cheap, because there's a lot to be said, when we've talked about this before, with branding. I mean, there are certain things when I pay a low amount of money, I think, oh, I wonder what's wrong with that? Or I don't now, is that — and so for me, I've always elevated my business and my voice to be, you know, here's my rate and it's okay if you can't meet that. Thank you. That's okay. You know, I hope to work with you in the future, but that's okay. I will spend time with people who will value my rate. I have no bitterness. I have no, there's no malice. There's, you know, nothing like that. I don't know exactly the rules of Fiverr right now, forgive me for that. But I don't know if you have to start at a very low rate or if you have to like work your way up to a certain rate. I'm not sure what it is.   Lau: I don't think so, Anne.      Anne: Yeah, I think you can start at a reasonable rate.   Lau: When you go on the platform, you're going to see, like, let's say you're looking up a service of an attorney, or let's say you're looking up someone, a musician, you want them to create music for you. You may see a layered approach of, I provide this for this amount. But then if you want this, we're going to layer that on at this amount.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Then we're going to provide it at this amount. So it isn't this flat, like, $5 or $10 thing.   Anne: Yeah, it's not $5.   Lau: It's very much a layered approach to what they do, and some of them start very high. They'll say this is what I'm worth, this is what it is. I'm on the platform that's known as a discount platform, but I'm not offering your discount. And that's what it is. So it's all over the place, it's all over the place.   Anne: And again, it's all about your business. And it's all about how you run your business.   Lau: It is.   Anne: And I truly believe, and I want this for every BOSS out there. I really, really do. I mean, gosh, guys, I've learned so much in my many years. And Lau, you too, I'm quite positive. I've learned so much about valuing my worth and understanding good clients to work with and knowing where to place myself. And if I need to negotiate a specific rate or a custom rate, which is what we do all the time, pretty much, for every single client, and it needs to be a little bit lower to fit a budget, and it's okay with me, and I know I'm going to get more work, or it'll be worth it in some other way outside of monetary value, that is up to me. That is my judgment. That is my business decision, and it is how I run my business. And I will tell you that being able to walk away and saying no, and I've said this multiple times, has given me the confidence to be able to understand my worth and be able to be successful in my business. And I think however you do that, whether you're on Fiverr, whether you're on another casting website, whether it gives you the confidence at some point that you're like, I don't need this anymore, or I can get my own clients -- I think it's all a stepping stone.    And I think it truly is what I want for all the BOSSes is that confidence. You're worthy of a fair price, whether, no matter what platform you're on. You're worthy of a fair price. And once you have that confidence and the confidence to walk away from a low ball price, right, or something that deems you as cheap, right, then your business will grow. And once your business grows, it's kind of like, it's just like a wonderful little snowball that just gathers the confidence and it gathers, you know, oh, this is great. Now I know what I'm worth, and my business can grow and I can be successful and I can put some money in the bank, right? And then if that if that next client says no or offers me something too low it's okay I can walk away. I've got the money in the bank. I'm able to pay the bills and boom.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And that's what I want for all of you BOSSes out there, however you get there. Know, know, know your worth.   Lau: Mm-hmm, and it goes right into your submissions if you were with an agency. I'm an agent, and I can tell you, there are times we're working with a budget that is minuscule. It's like, oh my gosh, who could even work for this? And yet we have a lot of folks that want to book that job for many, many reasons. And then the next one that comes in is overpriced. They're giving us too much budget for it, and they don't realize it.   Anne: But Lau, is there ever really too much?   Lau: No, no, but like, if you see it in the same category, right next to each other, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this one's offering $400 with no usage. And then this one's offering, you know, $2000 with three years' usage. You're like, oh my goodness, there isn't much difference between these two. And I know for a fact, I can tell everyone hands down, that I have many people who want to audition and want to submit for both. And I respect that.   Anne: Now as an agent, will you fight for higher rates?   Lau: Oh, always. I mean, that to us is a truism. We're always going to go back and forth on every single thing that comes in and goes, come on, we need another thousand on this. You can do, right? So we're always quoting high.   Anne: You're always fighting for the talent, yes.   Lau: That's not even to be discussed because that's our job. That's what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's what we want to do. But we know, like as negotiators and anyone who's on that business, and we know where it stops. Like if you push just hard enough, you're going to lose that client. It's okay, sometimes we'll lose the battle, but we always want to win the war, so to speak.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Is that we don't want to lose the client unless it's like completely insane.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: We want to keep the clients because we know we have a whole lot of people who still want to submit and work.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: They just want to work.   Anne: And I love that. I love that you said that, your experience as an agent, because, guys, agents go through it as well. I mean, you're fighting for fair compensation, for good rates. God, it always used to make me wonder, because people would be like, well, my agent shouldn't accept that rate. And I'm like, sometimes the agent has nothing to do with that rate, right? And like you just mentioned, there's a fine line between losing the client forever, right, because you can't push.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And understanding that. I mean, voice talent, sometimes I wonder where they get their assumptions from, right? You know what, you've got to understand this is a business, it's negotiation, and that, it happens. It does. Sometimes there is no budget.   Lau: I also don't want to play the omnipotent authority of what everyone could or should be doing. I want to be a conduit to getting people work, and that means at all different rates, at all different levels, at all different -- and those people need to take agency and to self-screen and say, I don't want to do that.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: I say, great, you don't even have to let me know, just pass on it. That's okay. I don't make any judgment as to why you're doing it or why you're not doing it. I'm just running on an assumption, you're a professional talent, you want to be in the roster, and you want to be privy to what is coming through.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's all I feel. And to me, Fiverr is the same thing. If you want to be on the platform, you want to be privy to what's coming through, and then you make your own decisions and self-screen. To me, it's very, very much the same.   Anne: Excellent topic. The F word, guys. Remember, mind your own business and know your worth. And thank you, Lau, for an amazing discussion yet once again.   Lau: Awesome.   Anne: Ah, good stuff.   Lau: I loved it.   Anne: BOSSes, I want to take a moment and have you imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals, giving collectively and intentionally to create a world that they want to see. You can make a difference. 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more. Also, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Thank you so much, everyone. We love you. We'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week!   Anne: Bye.   Lau: Bye!

In this episode, Anne is joined by special guest Tom Dheere, the Vo Strategist. With over 25 years of experience, Tom knows how to ride the waves of ever-changing technology and market shifts. Discover the secrets to driving traffic to your website through social media, blogging, and top-notch content to keep you ahead of the pack. They share how old-school tactics like cold calling and email marketing might not be cutting it anymore. Boost your confidence with Tom's killer advice on negotiating rates like a BOSS and flipping your approach to snag the rates you truly deserve. Plus, we unveil the controversial truth about Fiverr and how this billion-dollar beast can actually help you charge industry-standard rates… Transcript 0:00:01 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome voiceover business and marketing consultant and VO strategist, Tom Dheere, to the show. As a voice actor with over 25 years of experience, Tom brings a wealth of voiceover knowledge to the table In his one-on-one strategy sessions, diagnostic sessions those sound interesting and his mentorship program, As well as speaker appearances at industry conferences. Tom, I am so excited to have you here today. Thanks for joining me.    0:00:34 - Tom Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to chat with you, Anne.    0:00:37 - Anne Tom, you know it's chaotic out there.    I'll tell you what there's disruption, There's, I say, mass panic, and I think that today more than ever, as entrepreneurs and business owners, we need a strategy more than ever. So I am super duper glad that we are here talking to you about that. So let's get a feel for your take on the industry, because you've been in the industry for gosh over 25 years and I'm sure you've seen it evolve, kind of like myself. Talk a little bit about your experience in this industry and how it's evolved over the years.    0:01:20 - Tom Okay, well, i decided I wanted to be a voice actor in 1994, so I was a graduate school dropout, so I got my. I decided in late 94, got most of my. I got my training in my voiceover demo in 95, which is a cassette tape. I still have it here in the drawer. And then when I got that demo, my coach gave me a little certificate and gave me a stack of Xerox copies of production company listings and said you know, start your good, your cold calling good luck. Because in 1995, there was I mean there was an internet and some websites, but there was no.    0:01:57 - Anne Yeah, there was no social media.    0:01:59 - Tom There was no online casting sites, there was no home recording, there was no digital delivery of audio files, there was no phone patch, there was ISDN. But like, who had that besides? like the, the, the rate, you know the major TV networks, you know. So you had to buy cold called and I called, called for a year until I got my first gig, so until I joined voice 123 in 2006,. That was pretty much, that was pretty much the only way to do it, and also I was going into New York city once a week. Voiceover is unlimited and you'd pay whatever was $35 for a 10 minute meet.    Meet up with a casting director or an agent or a manager which is how I got my, my first manager, who I still have to this day, 17, 18 years later. So my cassette turned into a CD which I was duplicating, burning you know. Oh God, the my post office hated my guts.    0:03:04 - Anne Now mail. Yes, cause.    0:03:06 - Tom I had a long a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like, oh geez, here comes Tom again and like, all right, everybody just gets to the side and just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick you know cause?    0:03:15 - Anne I was just constantly sending it out, yeah, and then that evolved into MP threes. So let's, let's, let's start. I think that there's, there's something, there's a parallel here, a disruption right. Some disruption in the industry right. So it evolved from a tape into a CD, into today, which is all digital right.    0:03:36 - Tom Right And then and then pay a voice bank and voicescom and voice 123 disrupted the voiceover again, again and you know, and now AI is disrupting the voiceover industry. But this is what I say and all my students.    0:03:52 - Anne A pattern Tom. A pattern Tom. Yes, there is a pattern throughout the years, so I don't think that disruption is going to stop anytime soon.    0:04:00 - Tom No, it's going to keep going, and what I like to say is that when the light bulb was invented, it disrupted the candle making industry and nobody cared about the candle makers, except for the candle makers.    0:04:13 - Anne People were saying Oh good I can.    0:04:15 - Tom I can read a book at night without my house burning down. Like that's where everybody was coming from. It's like okay. So the candle makers had a choice They could go to Congress to try to get light bulbs outlawed, they could go la, la, la, la la which a lot of voice actors have been doing especially literally today, this week, on the voiceover groups. Or they could adjust to their candle making industry to accommodate certain parts of the light bulb industry, or they could convert their candle making factory into a light bulb making factory.    So, you can either fight it, ignore it, adapt to it or embrace it. And the voice actors that are going to still be standing for lack of a better term on the other side of AI and whatever the next disruption is, the ones that are adapting, evolving learning, growing, operating from a position of abundance as opposed to a position of scarcity, and not shouting at the rain. They're the ones that are still going to have a viable voiceover career. Yeah.    0:05:08 - Anne Yeah, i'll tell you, it has really it has really wreaked havoc, and I think that you know, gosh, you know, and I've been following it and following it And you know, two years ago on the VO Bus podcast, i mean, i think that you and I can both agree to do due diligence and educate yourself on, you know, evolving technologies or disruptive technologies that can affect your business, and that is so very important that we, you know, truly educate ourselves. And I had done a series of interviews, of which I'm still doing periodically, with you know, large companies, people that are working in synthetic voices, ai companies to kind of get to ask those tough questions like Hey, what's happening here? And are you, you know, is there transparency? You know, what are your ethics? You know, do you have, you know, objectives in terms of protecting?    you know, voices as you go, and I think it's been an educational journey for not just me as a business owner and a voice artist, but for the AI companies as well. I think we are all learning and evolving with technology as we go, and I've had experience doing that myself, you know, working in technology for over 20 years, and I still consider myself working in technology. So, in terms of you know your, your students and and your clients. What is your? what is your biggest tip now for, let's say, people coming into the industry, how to get a handle on this industry and be successful.    0:06:43 - Tom Do as much research as you possibly can. Work with professional coaches who are boots on the ground blue collar voice actors as well like who are actively engaged in the voiceover industry. That's not to say that there's not genre coaches out there, like Mary Lynn Wissner, for example, who is not a voice actor but is an amazing coach.    There are only a handful of people like that, as you know and but people who are actively, who have to continue to grow and evolve with the industry to maintain relevance in the industry And be better than the AIs on a storytelling level as quickly as you possibly can.    0:07:23 - Anne Yeah.    0:07:24 - Tom Because they are getting better and better almost daily. Are they going to completely take over the entire voiceover industry? No, Are they going to. you know, take away a percentage of certain jobs of certain genres, mostly for entry level voice actors Yes, yeah. The trick is how do you get good enough that, when you're starting your voiceover journey, that you're already better than the AIs, so you can kind of leap over?    that hurdle and be a human narrator as quickly as possible. That's going to be the challenge. What I think that means is the people that are more naturally talented, the people who have theater training, the people who have on-camera film and TV training, improv training, those people coming into the industry which are all parts of what defines a better actor are going to have a better chance than people just coming at it from other sectors. Frankly, i mean, a registered nurse has every right to stop being a nurse and try to do medical narration for a living, and I encourage that. I've trained people like that, you've trained people like that over the years, but it's going to get harder and harder if they don't have natural storytelling billing, natural storytelling ability, or they haven't been trained in non-voiceover storytelling. So get as many acting classes as you can under your belt. Get as many improv classes under your belt so you can learn how to make strong choices quickly, which is a key to being a good narrator. Understand the technology and maybe get your voice cloned as quickly as possible.    0:09:05 - Anne That's very interesting. I'm finding that I do have some people, because I did the series and I've been investigating and educating myself with AI companies for the past few years, i've had people ask me, and not all of them want to shout the rafters saying, oh, i'm out there trying to figure out how to get my voice cloned or how to get a synthetic voice. But what's interesting is that synthetic voice, the companies that are creating synthetic voices. They're also evolving and changing on a daily basis, and so it's really important that, as voice actors, you keep up with that, and I'm always a big proponent of if you have a business, you want to understand the market in which you're selling And so part of that market. If the market is changing. And, tom, as a business person, you're all about researching and looking at the market as it evolves over the years. And where do you see the market heading in terms of voiceover casting? Where are we going to be able to get these jobs, or where can voiceover talent find work? And I know that's the golden question, right.    People like they expect a five-minute answer from me. Where can I get voiceover work? But where do you see that evolving and heading as we move on in the future?    0:10:27 - Tom That's a great question, Anne. There will still always be a place for needing agents, managers and casting directors for high end work, class A national commercials, high end video games and cartoons, high end promo, high end in show narration. I don't think that's ever. I don't think that's ever going to change. Casting sites are going to continue to be as relevant as ever and is still the the most effective way for new voice actors to onboard into the industry. Because you can. All you need is a credit card and you could just join the casting site and start auditioning immediately.    The interesting part is going to be the direct marketing part which. I learned the hard way when all of my direct marketing strategies, which worked like gangbusters in 2013, 14, 15, 16, all of a sudden stopped working because, so many of those production companies recording studios that I had worked with through direct marketing strategies have moved to online casting sites just because it's easier for them to curate a roster, manage talent, manage projects.    So, um, ai is going to take a chunk out of online casting sites. It's going to take a chunk out of direct marketing clients the low end stuff and stuff that would never normally get like there's audio books out there that will never get produced unless it's an AI voice.    0:11:51 - Anne It's going to do it out of interest or ergonomics or just sure, whatever that sure whatever the rights holder can, um, can afford.    0:11:57 - Tom So you also new students, when it comes to this kind of strategies, need to figure out what. How does what a success look like for them, Which genres do they want to be successful in And which portals do they need to access to become successful in said genres? So if you want to be on the next Pixar film or be in the next fallout video game, you need to get a lot of training, you need to get a top notch demo, you need to get high end agents and you're going to eventually need to join SAG-AFTRA. That's not. That's not changing for everybody else. You know the pendulum is going to swing, stuff's going to move or stuff's going to move around, but you're still going to need you're still going to need the aforementioned good training, good demo good website, good home recording.    Um, and the ability to keep up with industry's trends by reading blogs, watching podcasts like this um, working with coaches like, like you and me. Um, it's going to what, what percentage of what genre is going to get lost and where you're going to need to go for each of it. I mean, who can? who can say, but if you have, if, if online casting sites stigmatize you, get over it get in there develop your skills develop your auditioning skills.    0:13:10 - Anne That was it. That was the nugget of the day. That was awesome Sound right of the day. Yeah.    0:13:14 - Tom Because online casting sites like I'm. I know because I'm on voice 123. I audition every day and I regularly see clients that are posting casting notices that I used to work with five, six, seven, eight, 10 years ago, who won't take my phone calls anymore because they're on casting sites. That's the only way they'll talk to me And I'm totally fine with that, because you said you got to go where the buyers are. you got to go where the market is going. That's where they are. That's where you need to be.    0:13:41 - Anne I think there's something to say If we just tell every boss out there, you know, first of all, um, be a boss, right And understand that you really have to stop. And I think, take a uh, uh, take a look at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is we're providing a product, uh, to a market, the market. You have to evolve with the market. It's not about you know, uh, oh, my gosh, it's, it's, it's you know your voice over business and your craft and your and your art, which I completely, yes, it is. But honestly, you know, at the end of the day, right, i want to pay my mortgage, right, and if I want to have a business, it always amazes me, tom, how you know you go to conferences and I know you know when, when, cause I used to, i used to teach business classes as well. Whenever you go to see which classes fill up first, it's always the performance classes, it's always the cartoon and video game.    Always those because, well, okay, so they're fine, they they allow the creativity. But, honestly, you know, beyond the fun and the creativity in the booth, you've got to be able to run a business that will make a profit. If you want to write, if you want to do this as a business and you want and you're serious about it I mean, if it's you know, if it's a hobby, that's a difference, that's a different podcast. Sure, you know, and I think that you know what you offer, you know, to people as a, a VO strategist or even just a business strategist, is invaluable. And I truly think, bosses out there, you've got to step back.    Um, and yes, of course you know, create the product that the market is demanding Right, and and also know how to run your business right. And so I love your story that you know the people that used to take your calls no longer will take your calls. You know your calls and now you have to work with them on the platform, and mostly because it's easy and more convenient And I will be the first person to ask any of you bosses out there if you're using any form of AI to do anything. Let's say, create a blog post or, you know, maybe play around and change your headshot And you're using the technology to make your jobs better, more efficient, then you cannot be the person that gets upset if you're not, let's say, evolving along with the synthetic voice aspect of it.    0:16:06 - Tom You know, absolutely.    0:16:08 - Anne I mean. So, as we talk to peer to peer, i think, or pay to play platforms, i think online casting is absolutely. What about Tom? let's talk about what about your website, your online platform, your online storefront? What do you think about that in terms of being able to market your business?    0:16:29 - Tom Okay, it's funny because people coming into the industry, you know most of them realize they need some kind of training and then they realize, oh, i need to record from home. You know I need a demo. And then almost all of them think, well, i need some kind of website. But they don't know why they need a website. They don't know how to build a website and they don't know what is necessary to create an effective website. What I tell my students is that no one is gonna find your website nobody.    There are literally tens of thousands of voice actor websites out there. The odds of them typing in some stuff on Google, bing, yahoo and finding you is virtually impossible. I mean, tomdeercom is over 20 years old and I've been blogging for 14 years, so I've got really good SEO and I rarely get found on it. Anyway, the point is, your job as a voice actor is to drive traffic to your website, and you do that by being on social media, blogging, creating a presence, creating conversations, creating quality content to get them to notice you. And then there's email marketing and cold calling, which I'm sure you realize that they don't work a fraction as well as they used to, because why should they answer the phone of some voice actor trying to talk about themselves, when they're just gonna go to an online casting site to cast their next project. They're already more than halfway down the sales funnel anyway on an online casting site, as opposed to trying to get them into the sales funnel through cold calling and all that.    So driving traffic to your website is extremely important, and then get them to do the most important thing, which is download your demos.    0:18:12 - Anne Everything else, is irrelevant Or click it back. I mean, everything else is secondary to downloading the demo. Right, yeah, but now downloading the demo? now we've got there's the fear. There's now there's some fear that if we allow our audio, you know, freely out there and I, you know I have podcast, you have podcast. Anybody can download this podcast I've been doing it for six years and potentially turn it into a voice.    0:18:40 - Tom Okay, Look everybody. I've been doing this for 25 years. I have done thousands and thousands of voiceover projects. I've probably done tens of thousands of auditions over the years, I guarantee my voice has been cloned without my knowledge many times over.    I guarantee that auditions that I have you, that I have done, has been used for broadcast without my consent or without compensation. Every website that exists is going to get hacked at some point. None of our data is safe, it's just not. All you can do is do the best you can to mitigate your risk. try to be secure. I can't worry about submitting my demo and worrying about it getting cloned.    I mean if I, if I was worried about that, i wouldn't have a career. I would. I'd be quadruple bolting the door and hiding in the bathtub. There's just nothing you can do about it. So don't worry about don't worry about that. Put the demo out there. I mean because the the the odds of it happening are extremely slim, but the longer you're here, the more likely it's going to happen. It's just you know well.    0:19:45 - Anne Tom, i mean, i think I think really again, we we talk about that bad actors, um, which is so interesting in our industry. Now, the term bad actor, right. Had I not really delved in deep to talking to people outside of my own industry, i would not have known what the bad actor meant. Um, outside of, like the literal meaning of it, right, but the bad actors meaning those companies, right, or those people that may take advantage, unfair advantage, um, with the in in clone voices, without permission, create deep fakes, all of those things. There's always that possibility And I had such an interesting conversation the other day with Shyamala Praga, who is very well known in the AI industry.    Um, regarding, you know, laws and regulations and and instead of being reactive which is what we typically are right, reactive, something bad happens and then a law or you know some sort of policy is is established that then, you know, takes care of it. Um, really trying to again educate all of us, not just in our industry but everywhere, that, um, these things could potentially happen and we need to protect ourselves from bad things. Um, you know, what are your thoughts about? I mean, i, like, i really love your, your, your perspective on you can't be worrying about that all the time, but are there any steps that you would recommend to to, let's say, to protect um or to be cautious about that? I mean, i certainly am not going to make my demo not downloadable because I want it to be convenient for people to listen and buy.    0:21:20 - Tom You have to have it. It has to be downloadable because, when it comes to your direct marketing strategies and driving traffic to your website, the odds of them having a voiceover project for you right now, at the time that you have marketed to them successfully and they've actually gone to your website to review your demos, the odds of them actually having a gig for you is infinitesimally small. I can count, i think, on two fingers in 25 years that that's actually happened. Representation and online casting insights are for opportunities now. Direct marketing, driving traffic to your website is for opportunities.    later They're not going to remember you once they leave that website of yours You need to have. They need to walk away with the demo, so they stick it in a folder somewhere in their cloud or on their desktop, so when an opportunity comes along that you may be right, for your demo was right there for them to review, or if again another thing that I always like- to say is that, no matter what in a marketplace and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, there are I will pay for things that make my life easier and make my life more convenient.    0:22:25 - Anne So, for example, i hate, i always use this my lipstick. So my lipstick is reliable, dependable, stays on all day, i don't have to put it on again And I you know I use that as an example product. I pay a lot of money for this lipstick. Now I certainly feel that no matter. Look AI, you know pay to play sites, you know driving down, you know rates. I no matter what. If somebody likes and gangooza right and likes her product, they're going to pay the money and they're going to remember me and they're going to buy it again and again. I'd love to hear your thoughts.    0:22:58 - Tom You go to a department store and there's five pairs of shoes on on the shelf and four of them cost, you know, $75 and one of them cost $800.    Everybody immediately goes and looks at oh, what's this? What's the value of this? Why is it worth $800? Well, if they says it's worth $800, then clearly it must be worth $800. So I will happily spend $800 on this pair of shoes. So most people coming into the voiceover industry are broke and perceive themselves as an employee or a starving artist. They are already immediately devaluing themselves and training voice seekers to devalue them.    So it's a systems of, it's a systems of thought problem. And I'm not going to sit here and blow sunshine up everybody's butt and say you're special, you're wonderful, you're, you're going to. All your dreams are going to come true, because that's not what the VOStratigist does. This VOStratigist does not sell dreams. The VOStratigist sells reality.    My job is to give you objective data so you can set, you can make informed decisions about your voiceover career. But you want to do everything you can to set yourself up for success And the first step one is mindset. Know your worth. Know your worth based on your pure talent, know your worth based on your training, know your worth based on your experience. And know your worth based on what the industry standards are.    Sag After over here GVAA over there, Know what your worth is and comport yourself And it's maybe it's a little fake it till you make it. I don't. I'm not sure you can do that. Having confidence and being confident in your training and your talent and your understanding of the rates, That should empower you to make sure that people aren't buying stuff from you that are shopping in the wrong aisle.    0:24:56 - Anne And also, i would say, as a as a talent just coming in, i don't think you can expect to get into or to become a top tier you know, professional without making an investment. I mean, that's the other thing too. I cannot tell you how many people they'll be like. You know, i really need coaching, but I just I don't have any. You know, they don't have the budget they don't have And, and so in reality, there has to be those things in place. You can't expect to go in and make a ton of money without investing in yourself and investing in that, in that coaching that's going to help you to be the most human voice actor that you can be.    0:25:37 - Tom Patience is one of the most important skills that you need to have as a new voice actor. Everyone wants to start talking for money as quickly as possible and using their funny cartoon voices that their dentist told them is hilarious And that's all. That's all great, but if you can't afford the training yet, build a budget create a savings plan.    be patient, find community theaters or summer theater programs that have free acting and improv training, and develop your foundation of storytelling skills while you're saving money to work with a professional coach like Anne, or work with a VO strategist you know a business marketing consultant like me. There's a ton of things that you can do. But if you dive in when you're not ready or you go with the first demo coach that you can afford and submit to that demo to those agents for the first time, it's not gonna go well.    It's not gonna go well. So I'll never tell anybody not to pursue their dreams, but I will tell everybody to be smart about pursuing their dreams by having. This is what I like to say no matter what you're doing in life, do it with both hands and on a flat surface. Be smart about it, i learned that when I tried to open an Amazon box with a pair of open scissors like this, which we've all done, Oh, yeah, yeah, not yeah. Both hands flat surface.    0:26:58 - Anne Very guilty of that. So then, let me talk a little. let's talk a little bit about rates, because what is your best advice for those actors who might be struggling to find work at their desired rates when you know there is this perceived? you know, race to the bottom, with technology disrupting What, how can they pivot their approach to succeed and get rates that they deserved?    0:27:21 - Tom Learn how to negotiate. And it's not like a Middle East Bazaar where you're haggling over the price of, you know, a goat or something.    It's just the better that you can understand the rate structure of voiceover on a session level and on a usage level, the better, the more empowered you are to educate your clients or potential clients, because for so many casting notices that I see, or so many emails hey, i found you on Google, whatever they've never cast a voiceover in their life.    They haven't the faintest idea what the ergonomics are, what project management is involved or what the rate structure is. Being experienced it's not necessarily a correlation between being professional and experienced. You don't have to be experienced to be professional To understand there is a rate structure. I understand what the rate structure is and I'm able to articulate it to somebody who has no idea how the voiceover industry works. The more that you can do that, the more empowered you are to get industry standard rates and the more empowered you are to educate voice seekers to value you and not let them use cheap rates. Well, i paid this guy five bucks. I'm gonna leverage it to get you to pay you five bucks where you say no, you don't do that You gotta think long term.    You have to value yourself and your fellow voice actors, because every time you accept a ratty rate, you're making it harder for everybody else. Every time you accept an industry standard rate, you're making it easier for everybody else.    0:28:51 - Anne Now, but okay. So then here's the question. Yes, i agree that there should be the thought process about the industry as a whole. However, you will always have those voice actors that it is their business, right? I'm a big proponent of saying mind your own business. That means, don't worry about how other people get their business. In that respect, though, do you know what I'm saying? I truly believe I want people to understand their worth in order to make a bold and take the challenge to actually negotiate that worth with a potential client. So, speaking of five bucks, i know that you had talked to me a little bit about an experiment that you had conducted using the online pay to play the F word, fiverr.    And I personally, i'm one of those people that thinks we need to talk about this because it is a viable marketplace in the well viable it exists in our industry. Let's put it that way you may not agree with it and you may not feel that it values your worth, but what were your findings? What do you think about Fiverr?    0:29:58 - Tom Okay, it had been coming up so much in conversations with my students, with my fellow voice actors, fellow coaches, producers, panelists at conferences And, like I said, my job as a video strategist is to collect objective data so I can help my students make thoughtful, informed decisions about how to move their voiceover business forward. Fiverr is real, it is here. It's a billion dollar company. There are thousands and thousands of voice actors on it. So I needed to understand what exactly it is, why it is and how it works. So I created an account, I followed the tutorials, i looked at YouTube videos, i built a profile and then you build what are called gigs And a gig is basically broken down by genre.    I will narrate I'm an American voice actor who will narrate your explainer video or e-learning module or whatever And then what you do is you build the rate, but you're breaking it down bit by bit. So This is what really fascinated me about it is if someone said to you and I've got an explainer video, how much do you charge? and you probably charge what? 400, 500, whatever sometime around there But if you actually broke down by dollar, how much it costs for you to record the video, how much it costs to edit the video, to clean up, process, format, save, deliver. Do retakes give you permission to use the video in a certain way on a certain platform? if you chop up that $400 into all those little individual things, that's basically what you're doing on Fiverr. So it could say base price $5, but then if you add deliver as a wave file, deliver it within 24 hours you know, we'll only get two retakes.    Mvp, I'll move you up to the front of the line, If you, then if you go da-da-da-da, then the total can be $400. It can be an industry standard rate. Fiverr saying oh, we get everything's for five bucks.    0:32:05 - Anne It's more of a marketing position than anything else. And if you think about that in reality, right, if they're going for that market for the people who don't right, who don't have a lot of money to spend and they want to go for lower priced, saying Fiverr and marketing themselves as Fiverr, get affordable, then absolutely I mean as a business they built for a market where there was a hole And yeah, and now of course, because they have so many voice artists on it right.    that increases their SEO value, which increases, you know, ease, convenience, of use, and so that's what makes them you know the force that they are in the industry.    0:32:49 - Tom Right. So there's three levels on Fiverr And if you earn a certain amount of money and a certain amount of timing, get a certain amount of ratings in a certain amount of time, then you go to the next level and then the top level and the people at the top level charge industry standard rates and they do fine. The trick is kind of punching through that membrane from the first level to the second, in the second to the third. I feel like that's where it can be challenging.    0:33:12 - Anne Yeah, and I feel like you'd have to work that, because I think you have to earn that right, you have to get so many ratings, and I feel like you'd have to actually work the platform for a bit so that you could get up the ratings, so that you could climb up the ladder, so that you could charge industry rates. But, although not impossible, it's a very interesting concept. And because we are talking about it, bosses, doesn't necessarily mean we are condoning that platform, i mean. But if you look at it from a business standpoint, it absolutely, you know it covered a hole in the market and logically I can see how that works.    I absolutely can see how that works Now, do I love that? it makes voiceover seem cheap? No, not at all. And I think to each and everyone out there, it is up to you to make that decision whether you want your brand associated with that brand, because that's a whole other way of doing business, right? So, again, you're almost working for the platform And then that platform represents your brand versus, let's say, for me, i've always been let's do it myself, and you know, seo for me.    I've been online for years and it's worked in my favor And I've built up a great clientele list And I'm very fortunate that I'm able to continue on that. And while I am a member of a lot of pay to place, i don't have time to actually audition. And you know, for me, email marketing well, it's probably not quite as effective. Well, it's hard to say. I still believe that there's effectiveness in email marketing if you've got the right message and you have the right subject line, because people have less and less of an attention span. But it's one of the reasons why I built the VO Boss Blast. It was a way to help direct market talent, so that they didn't, you know, and I basically started it for myself. Isn't that like every company.    0:35:05 - Tom Right, if you create a product you want, help You do it to serve your needs.    0:35:09 - Anne I did it because I was like I don't have time. I want to do the podcast, i want to do VOPs, i want to be you know, i'm coaching, so I don't have a ton of time, so let me just create a direct marketing product that I can use. And then, of course, i shared that.    0:35:24 - Tom I do want to say for the record I have not booked anything on Fiverr. I set up my gig, i made adjustments to my rates because you're supposed to refresh it and try to feed the algorithm. I couldn't. I also did the same exercise on Upwork and it worked similarly and I got the same results. I could not. I could not book anything. I guess that just means I'm not a particularly good voice actor.    0:35:47 - Anne No, I think it's because you didn't have 100% of your right time to really devote to it. I mean, that's what. I think That's a part of it.    0:35:55 - Tom And the other thing is understanding the economies of the voice seekers, absolutely.    0:35:59 - Anne Diversify the economies and understanding of you know, money and how it works, of the country of origin of the voice actor too, absolutely, and Tom, i'll be the first one to say I mean, we've been in this business a long time. If you were on Voice 123 in 2006, right, you remember? Freelancer.    0:36:17 - Tom Oh, i was on Freelancer. Oh good, so was I. And Elanzen and Guru, yeah, i was on all of them.    0:36:22 - Anne So all of those evolved into Fiverr.    Really, that's really it was that it was like who could bid the lowest right? And I will tell you that, as a you know, entering into the online space, i mean that's where I did get some jobs. Now, did I take jobs that were probably not what I was worth? Yeah, I did, i did, but I learned quickly, you know, and it was a tough, it was a tight, it was frustrating because it was always people under bidding And so you get that type of client, but what you do is you learn about where those clients right, those are the clients that don't value your product Not necessarily you but they don't value the product enough to pay the price right.    0:37:01 - Tom They want to pay the cheapest, the biggest of the pain they are.    0:37:04 - Anne Exactly, exactly So. Wow, what a great conversation, tom. This has been so wonderful and enlightening for the bosses out there. I'm quite sure, tom, how can people get in touch with you and work with you?    0:37:17 - Tom Oh, go to vostrategistcom. I encourage you to book a free 15 minute consult. We can talk about any part of the voiceover industry that you want. I also have a video shop where I've got closing in on 30 different videos covering everything in the voiceover industry, from time management to workflow to genre exploration to managing your finances. I also have a great mentorship program where you can do 30 minute check-ins with me once a week, once a month or twice a month. It also gives you access to some of those videos for free. But, yeah, book a session with me, free session with me at vostrategistcom, and I'd love to chat with you.    0:37:50 - Anne Good stuff, tom. Yeah, bosses, today more than ever we need a strategy for moving forward in our business. So go to it, tom. Thank you again. I would like to talk to you bosses about. As individuals, you know, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to learn how And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl You too can connect in network like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.    Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne & Gillian continue their discussion on Boss Equipment Necessities, providing even more valuable insights on what essential audio equipment you need in your booth. They discuss the importance of selecting studio headphones that offer both comfort and accuracy. They also delve into the convenience and limitations of USB microphones, as well as providing a comparison of costs and quality of audio interfaces. Additionally, they share tips on where to get tech support and test gear in person. You definitely don't want to miss this conversation...   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show today creative freelancer, audio engineer, musician Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series.    Gillian: Hello (laughs).    Anne: Hey, Gillian.    Gillian: How's it going?    Anne: It's going great. So we've had some really intense conversations about our home studios. First of all, talking about where to locate your home studio in your home, where good place is, a little bit about sound absorption. Then we had a really cool, interesting episode, I think, on all the equipment that people don't think about that's required to run our voiceover business. Now we're gonna talk about all the obvious ones that I think people always, they love to talk about these, and --   Gillian: This is the exciting stuff.    Anne: I think the other stuff is exciting. I think actually people don't get excited enough about the other kind of technologies. So --   Gillian: I mean, (laughs), we know you're gonna marry the internet.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: I have a spiritual connection to unboxing Apple products.    Anne: Yes, there you go.    Gillian: But the air quotes exciting stuff that everyone loves to harp on. Yes.    Anne: I dare say that I have a spiritual connection to my headphones, (laughs) to my headphones, and, and I know that people are always asking me, what are your headphones that you wear? Because I love wearing colorful headphones because it's part of my brand. And I actually have like all different colors of headphones right here with me.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: I've got a lovely deeper blue here.    Gillian: You guys, if you're not watching, go to YouTube right now and you gotta see this.    Anne: Then we've got the royal blue here, which I love, and then of course I've got black. I actually have an alternate pair of the red ones and okay. So I think, can we talk about headphones (laughs)?    Gilliann: Yeah. I mean, let's start.   Anne: I've already started.    Gillian: So we talked computer, you have your computer, you have your internet connection, you have your isolated space, and it's soundproofed to whatever fits your budget and what you need right now to be isolated.    Anne: And your internet connection and website.    Gillian: Oh yes.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: Yes. Oh, and website. Yes.    Anne: And website.    Gillian: That is definitely important. Headphones. So important because you can't, you can't be playing out loud while you're recording (laughs).    Anne: Now here's the thing, there's reasons why we wear headphones. Okay? So what are the primary reasons you wear headphones, Gillian?    Gillian: Well, just in my everyday life, there's the convenience of being able to listen to whatever I want and to be able to hear that. But for recording, when you're recording voice, if you are playing out loud what you are recording, you will get feedback. And I don't think you will on the scale of a small computer, but there are a few studios that I've worked in, and when I was very new and prone to making mistakes -- obviously continue to make mistakes and learn from them — but when we had big speakers and we were recording in the same room, you definitely get a nice ear cleaning with that high pitch feedback. Because having an open source, you're DAW, armed and ready to record, and that -- it just creates a loop of sound, if you think about it, what's going into the mic, coming outta the speaker, into the mic, outta the speaker, and that just ruins it.    Anne: So well, okay. So there's a big debate in the voiceover world about, do you need headphones while recording? Because there's a lot of people that say you do not. It helps you to sound more natural. Okay? And of course you don't wanna have your speakers on either or your monitors.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's what I'm thinking of. But this is interesting.    Anne: Yeah. So do you have your headphones on while you're recording? Because a lot of times, it's distracting listening to yourself, what you sound like in your headphones. So for me, okay — some people adopt the whole, I'm not gonna wear my headphones at all because it makes me sound more natural. I'm not listening to what I sound like in my ears. Some people do one ear on, one ear off to help that as well while they're recording. And some people wear them. Now I, years ago, started wearing them because I had a lot of sound outside of my studio. And I needed to be able to put my headphones on to hear if it was going to come through in the recording. And some things like my naked ears couldn't hear like the vibration of the truck that was a mile away coming down the road, and somehow vibrationally it came up through my studio. And the jackhammer that was maybe not right outside my door, but down the road because they were constructing new homes.    So for a long time I got used to wearing my headphones just to make sure I could step in the studio to make sure that I couldn't hear those sounds coming through my microphone. And then I just continued to wear them. Now I've done both, take them off when I'm recording or keep them on. A lot of times, if you think of it this way, (laughs), and this is not a popular opinion, I will have my headphones on while I'm recording because I feel that whatever you hear in your headphones is just you amplified. And if you are an accomplished actor that can act like you, without paying attention to what you sound like in your headphones, you can wear headphones.    And for me it's something that, it's kind of on a day-to-day basis. I'll probably wear my headphones more often than not, just because I've been doing this for a very long time, and all I do every day when I coach is tell people not to listen to what they sound like and to just be themselves. And so I wear my headphones. Plus I do a ton of editing, I do a ton of coaching, and so I need to, and I don't have monitors, number one for the very technical reason is honestly I just don't have space. I don't have space to put a nice pair of monitors on my desk. So I wear my headphones when I edit.    And so headphones to me have to be comfortable. And they have to be studio headphones of course. And that should be a given. Anybody, any BOSSes out there that are just starting in the industry, make sure they're studio headphones, and they're not any other type of headphones that's gonna add more base or more treble or that adds prettiness to it. You just need studio headphones so you can hear the raw output.    Gillian: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation. I think my advice is gonna be the same as always. My advice is just try 'em all and see what works. I personally, when I am singing, I do one ear on, one ear off, mostly for pitch, because how you sound in your head, it's all relative and different. I think that there are some things to be concerned about. Obviously if there is extraneous noise coming on your recording, you wanna be aware of that. But if you're connecting to a client, really if there's an engineer on the session, they should catch that. Like, that's my job when I'm working with talent. Another issue, sometimes I hear the movement of headphones, but I've never really asked talents what they're doing. And maybe it's putting them on and off, but there are a lot of moments functionally during a session when a director is gonna wanna get your attention. And so if you're just rocking without headphones, that's something to just consider.    Anne: Yeah. You'll have to hear them. And you just said something, I don't mean to interrupt, but you just said something that made me think the physical sound of your headphones. Believe it or not, if like -- these headphones, the exterior is, there's some plastic components here. As they get older, believe it or not, if I move my head, because we're very physical as voice actors behind on the mic, as I move my head, they make noise. And that noise comes in through my recording. And I, I remember for the longest time there was this tiny little click, and I was like, I don't have a mouth click. Where's that coming from? It was coming from my headphones. And so for me, I found a way to, I actually had bought a new pair of headphones so that they didn't -- they weren't really squeaking, but they were making plasticy noises. And I know that's not a technical term, but it's a noise where like if I do this (clacking nails on headphones) --   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne: — you can hear that. It wouldn't be that loud, but it would be something similar to that. And so --   Gillian: Interesting.    Anne: Yeah. For those of you guys listening to that, I was simply just squeezing the headphone earpiece with the headpiece together --   Gillian: To get that plasticy --   Anne: To get that plasticy sound.   Gillian: — noise sound. Well, there's another thing that I've noticed with headphones that's important to note -- just this is more function than which headphones to get. But, and it could be 'cause people are taking them off. But a lot of times I'll be working with the talent's audio from a session we just did, and through their recording I can hear everyone else talking. And this doesn't really happen during the recording, but I can hear myself slating things not recorded. So I don't know, if you're taking your headphones off and you're putting them down, you gotta think about, okay, if someone starts talking or if there's other noises, those are gonna get directly into the mic. Or if your headphones are too loud, there's gonna be too much bleed. So just things to think about when we're talking about headphones.    Anne: Two good points. I wanna actually go back on that, right? If you put your headphones down and obviously you're not hearing (laughs) other things, right, other noises can come through them. And also you mentioned bleed. Bleed is important because right now I'm really, really close to my microphone. And depending on the volume that you have your headphones turned up to, and I'm a little older so I might need a little higher volume. And so sometimes you have to be careful that the sound coming through your headphones doesn't bleed back through your mic. And for that reason I have closed headphones. And that's why I recommend closed headphones for most voice actors, if that's the case. If you're gonna be sitting out just doing editing all the time, I don't think they need to be closed backed. If you're just gonna use 'emfor editing.    Gillian: If you're watching us, I have open back headphones. But I just got these recently, these are like the Sennheisers, I think the HD 600s. That's what I thought. And I have these mostly for mixing and I I listen through them 'cause they're really comfortable. But my closed headphones, I also have AudioTechnicas. They were my first headphones, like pro headphones; they're amazing. The pair that I had was under a $100. I've had 'em for years. They're amazing. So whoever is saying that you need really expensive headphones for amazing sound, you don't. There's lower models that are great and then you can upgrade. There's a whole range of AudioTechnicas that get more precise or, or just have different features that you can invest in if you wanna spend more. But there should be no barrier to getting, I think they're $70 or something like that, which --   Anne: Well, I'll have to tell you about mine that have the color. because people are always asking me. And I do have, I do have a studio gear page off of AnneGanguzza.com and as well as the VO BOSS page studio gear that I recommend. And by the way, I don't put anything on this page that I don't use or have not owned. And I will say that I love AudioTechnica headphones as well. And of course before this turns into an AudioTechnica podcast -- which it's amazing, there's lots of great headphones out there. The one thing that I love about AudioTechnicas is for me they're super comfortable. I literally wear my headphones when I'm on coaching days and I'm coaching eight hours at a shot. I have them on my head eight hours. Because again, like I said, I don't have monitors in my room and plus my husband works upstairs, and so I wanna be able to keep things at a minimum. And so they have to be super comfortable. I have to be able to hear the talent, right, to be able to direct them.    So for me, they are amazing. They're a little more than $100 because of the color, the special additions they are the MX 50s and in whatever color -- I don't believe they make the red anymore, but if you're lucky you can find them somewhere, somewhere out there. There'll be an extra pair that somebody has that's still new in the package. I've bought three pairs of red 'cause red is discontinued. My royal blue has been discontinued. Every year they come out with a new color. And so every year I find it necessary to buy another color just because I'm on the camera a lot and I love -- and they make me happy. Right? If you're gonna have on your head for a long time, they should make you happy.   Gillian: And comfortable, most important.   Anne: Yeah, and they should be comfortable.   Gillian: -- don't need a headache.    Anne: — be accurate as well. Right? So for that reason, the AudioTechnics are my faves, and I do own a pair of Paradynamics. I've owned the Sony, oh gosh, I think it was the 7507s, I believe. And the one thing that I didn't love about the Sonys, although I love the sound, was the actual cable that connects was a twisted cable. And what happened is they never traveled well. They became entangled within themselves. And if you've ever had a coiled wire get tangled in itself, and you try to pull it apart, it's horrible. It just gets twisted onto itself. And so I love the AudioTechnicas 'cause they always have the straight cable that you can use and it doesn't get twisty. And that may seem like a very silly reason to love the AudioTechnicas, but that's one of many reasons why I love that. But it's a viable reason because the twisty turn coiled cables, they're not fun to get them untangled when they get tangled, especially when you travel with them and you're trying to wrap them around --   Gillian: No.   Anne: — the headphones.   Gillian: Definitely not. And something to think about when we're talking, all of these things are essentials. And I'll just tell a brief, brief story, but the other day I was doing a session with a voice talent, and we were having all of these issues. I still don't know -- I was on the session, but I wasn't the head engineer of it. So I don't know exactly what happened. But we think that between when we were testing with the talent to when we pulled the client in, their headphones broke because they magically could not hear us.    Anne: Oh wow.    Gillian: And you need to have an extra pair because you can't be on a session without having an extra pair of headphones. It's super — and I'm sure we'll say, and I know, Anne, you've said before in the past, you need backups of your backups. But definitely even if you have your splurge pair and you have a less expensive pair just to use in case of an emergency, there could be a chance that you're on a session, and in the middle it breaks, and you can't continue the session without the pair of headphones. So just don't forget about having some, a little insurance on your sound.    Anne: Yeah. And you know that, it's interesting that you mentioned that, and I talk about headphones so much because when I'm connecting with students through ipDTL -- and this would be just like me, I would be the studio and they would be connecting through Source Connect or ipDTL — you have to have headphones to avoid that feedback. when you're connecting via those methods. And simply earbuds are not the best because sometimes they don't fit your ear properly. There's bleedthrough and honestly closed back headphones are probably the best for any kind of studio session you're going to have.    And I just say yes, I totally agree with you, Gillian, about the backup. Because I have had people who like all of a sudden they're like, oh, I can't hear you. And I'll be like, do you have another pair of headphones? And at that point if you even have a backup like set of EarPods works but in a pinch. But really have an extra set of headphones in case that happens. Because the last thing you want is for you to lose connectivity with your client to be able to hear what they're saying and to do your job. I mean it is part of your job. So have a backup, and honestly most headphones are not expensive. I, I'm going to tell you the AudioTechnicnas, even these, the new versions that they come out with are about 160 some-odd-dollars. The navy blue ones I just bought were like $169. So they're not tremendously expensive at all. And I know you can get some fabulous head phones for less than $100 for $99. I think that's what my Sonys were that I bought. So well worth the investment.    So in terms of headphones, make sure that they're studio headphones. Make sure -- I like to say close back if you're gonna be using them for any kind of recording at all 'cause you don't want the bleedthrough. If you're gonna sit there and edit all day, yeah, maybe open back or others will work fine for you. Make sure they're comfortable for your head. And especially if you wear glasses 'cause you don't want them to push in on the glasses and then have the glasses give you a headache. That's the last thing.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: All right.    Gillian: Okay. Should we lightning round a little bit the rest of some of the other things that we might need?    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: Because I know, I know what I'm thinking.    Anne: Microphone.    Gillian: Microphone. Yes. And we'll do a whole episode on microphones about the different types and and what kind you might need. I personally always say large diaphragm condensers for voice actors. There are amazing -- you know, everyone knows the TLM 103 that's upwards of $1000. There's also amazing mics that if you're a beginner, and you're not ready to invest that much money, that will not sound exactly the same but will be a large diaphragm condenser mic and will do the job, will make you sound great.    Anne: Absolutely. I used an NT1, a Rode NT1 for at least six years of my career full-time before I bought a 416. Actually I bought the TLM 103 and then I bought a 416 as well. So now I have both of those in my studio. But guess what? Also sitting on my desk here, I have a USB AudioTechnica AT 2020, and that works for some of my other connections. Believe it or not, that works for my Clubhouse connections because my Club Deck software doesn't like my audio interface so I have to use a USB mic and it makes me sound a whole lot better. And so those USB mics, they come in handy for lots of applications. Maybe not for your professional recording but for other applications that help enhance the sound of your voice.    Gillian: Yeah. And here's the -- I'm not going to say that people shouldn't use USB mics. I mean the audio engineer and me, always, I love an interface and a mic just because. It's so funny, I wrote a whole blog post on this so if you're interested you can go read my blog about the core differences between like the functionality of what a USB mic or like a USB and interface does, and the pros and cons of both, 'cause there's pros and cons of both. When you have the interface, there's more things to know, there's more things that can go wrong. There's just —   Anne: One more thing in the chain    Gillian: — sensitivity. Yeah, exactly. But if you are interested and you want a USB mic, there's definitely options that will make you sound as good as you need to sound to start out. And I don't wanna get on here and say that you can't book a job or get started in voiceover using a USB mic, because there's so many uses for it. And once you upgrade, if you choose to upgrade to an interfacing mic, then you have that other option to use for things like, like --   Anne: Any mic.   Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: That's what I love about. I think really if you've got, I say for any voice talent in a pinch if you have to, you can use a USB, if you've got a good recording environment, in a pinch, but it's not recommended. I would say even if you're traveling, I've tried it all. I do have, I've got a great Tula mic, which is a USB mic and it's amazing. So if I have a good space, you know, my little Tula can hook up USB, and I can get a decent audition. I wouldn't necessarily use it for any type of work that you wanna send to your client, broadcast type work, but in a pinch, like absolutely.    But for every day kind of voiceover I recommend condenser with an audio interface. And again, you don't have to have the $1000 mic. There's lots of great mics and there's so many discussion rooms and forums on what mic should I get? But I also have recommendations that I think work. It really depends on your voice and your comfort level, and work with a vendor that you can send it back if you don't love it.    Gillian: So important that you can either -- I mean I know in big cities -- I'm not entirely sure ‘cause I haven't done this in a while, but I know I'm in Guitar Center, I went there all the time growing up to play the instruments, and I know that they have a mic room where you can try stuff. I know that -- I'm pretty sure it'd B and H in New York City, you can try mics there, but I love Sweetwater. You can chat with agents there, you can talk to them. I'm pretty sure they have a great return policy because if you get the mic and you're investing all this money and you don't love it for your voice, even though everyone on the forums is saying it's top VO mic, don't keep it. Find something that makes you sound great because no one in the end is gonna know what mic you're using. They're just gonna know how you sound.    Anne: Well, exactly. And I also think though it's worth mentioning that if you get a mic and you want an assessment of what you sound like, Gillian, my goodness, like what you do all the time, the sound assessments, right?    Gillian: Yes.    Anne: Gillian can absolutely give you an assessment of how your voice sounds with that particular mic in your environment. I think there's a lot of things at play here. It's your environment and also the mic, and there will be a difference. So for me, I can say, you know what, I like the way this mic makes me sound, but I haven't recorded a file with it and sent it to somebody. Because again, sometimes if you're just starting, it's very difficult. You don't necessarily have an ear yet. Sending it to someone like Gillian is very important, who is, you know, this is what Gillian does; she's an audio engineer. She listens to sounds all the time and every day so she can make an accurate assessment and also tell you if this suits your voice or this doesn't suit your voice.    And I really believe that you also have to be happy with it. And don't forget, there's some people who mistakenly think that, well, I can use this mic and then I can process my voice to make it sound even better. And in reality as a voice actor, that's not what we wanna do. I mean, we simply wanna be able to give the cleanest recording that we can, and maybe our mic should, like what sorts of things should mics do for our voice? You know what I mean? They shouldn't change our voice, but they should enhance our voice.    Gillian: Yeah, they should -- I think I said this in the first episode we did together, but microphones are microscopes picking up your voice. And so every mic has a different capsule in it. It has a different way of processing, whether you're using dynamic mic or ribbon mic, all the different types of mics, they all react differently to sound. And so some people love singing on ribbon mics because it's quieter, it's more sensitive. I have a super cardioid condenser microphone that I, I love using on my voice and I tried the U87, all these other things. So it's really about, and this is a difficult answer because it's like you need to find what works for you because the mic that makes Anne sound great might not make me sound great. And all the processing in the world — obviously you can EQ it and change it a little bit, but really it's like finding a pair of jeans. Like you gotta find one that fits you and makes you look and feel your best. Maybe not look but jean analogy sound like you.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You know?    Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I don't think that there's any mic that will make you sound better than you. I mean your whole goal is really to make you sound the best that you can sound. And there's lots of mics -- and again, you could have a really like inexpensive mic in a great environment and sound amazing. You can also have a very expensive mic in a poor environment and sound horrible. I remember back in the day before I really had secured my environment sounding as best as it could, I purchased a shotgun mic, and it wasn't a 416, but I purchased one of the knockoffs and I actually hated it. I hated the way it made my voice sound. But I found that once I got the 416 and I had my environment, I love the way it sounds now.    And it's really interesting because before I was like, well I held off getting a -- it's why I got the TLM 103. And for me now I realize for my voice, the TLM 103 is a little bit of a brighter sound. And the 416 will pick up a little more of the bass sound, and that's typically true for most voices. But again, until you try it, you're not gonna really know, and it really has to be up to you. And again I think sending sound audio files to engineers who have the ear, who this is what they do, like Gillian, is really worth an investment to get the overall assessment on yes, this mic is good for you. Or also it will help you to determine if maybe (laughs) like how many times, I think we talked about this, Gillian, somebody might have had the installation of their mic backwards, and they were speaking into the back of the mic versus the front of the mic.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: A lot of times people don't sidedress their mic, right? They're speaking right into it. So there's a lot of plosive. So there's a lot of things that, Gillian, you can help talent to assess with their sound. And most people think it might be a mic problem, it may not be a mic problem.    Gillian: Yeah. Sometimes it's really simple stuff. Your room sounds really loud because your gain is up too high and you're not close enough to the mic. So it's picking up everything. Or it's on omni when it should be on cardioid, or you're facing the wrong way. There's so many things that someone listening could hear if you have a trained ear. Before we go, I know we have to go very soon, but don't forget your pop filter for your plosives.    Anne: Ah yes.    Gillian: So important.    Anne: Oh my gosh.    Gillian: I know you have like the pop filter shield sort of thing. That's what it looks like. Looks like you have, if you're using an interfacing mic, you need an XLR cable to connect the two. So important 'cause how are you gonna get from mic to interface from point to the other? So you get your mic, you get your interface, you don't have an XLR cable, you can't work. A mic stand. So important. What are you gonna do do without a mic stand? (laughs) You can't hold it.    Anne: Well, exactly. You really can't. And I think that again, more equipment besides your mic stand, I actually prefer --and this is just me, I always tell my students for me and my studio, I like the boom arms that can be mounted on the wall. Because a mic stand to me, I can't tell you how many times I've heard talent like trip over the tripod-like feet.    Gillian: Oh my gosh. Lemme show you my cute little stand.    Anne: With their mic. Yeah.    Gillian: I have this like, everyone watching, this like cute little baby stand that I just put on my desk. I think that those are really smart, the ones that clip right on. This little guy just sits on my desk and I can take 'em wherever.    Anne: Okay. Well, that's if you're sitting at a desk. But if you're standing and you have one of those tripod-like standing mic stands…    Gillian: They're hard to maneuver. Yeah.    Anne: They're hard. They're hard to fit in a lot of studios. I used to trip over mine all the time, so I basically have boom arms that I mount on the wall in my studio. They save a lot of space at my feet when you don't have a ton of space. And also, like you said, you can't hold it. And then we do need to mention the most important thing from the mic, right, that goes into your audio interface, your audio interfaces, and then everybody has questions. What's the best audio interface? Now I have been through the gamut of audio interfaces, but the main job of your audio interface is to translate the analog signal that comes from your microphone into a digital signal before it goes into the computer. Correct, Gillian?    Gillian: That's what it does. And typically it does both. It does the analog to digital conversion and then most audio interfaces have a headphone jack. So really we monitor off our computers, but you can monitor off of there where it goes digital right back to analog for you to listen to.    Anne: Oh right. Absolutely. I wasn't even thinking of that. You're right, because that's where my headphones are plugged in all the time. I started, gosh, I started with the Personas. And I'm trying to remember, I think I probably at one time had a Scarlet Focusrite, which I don't love those interfaces -- and I know we had a conversation in one of our podcasts about interfaces. I then, when I bought my studio here, I have a Mackey because I was intending to be able to do talk back to people in this booth to rent this booth. And ended up having a technical issue with that, which I sent it, it got fixed, it was under warranty that is now my backup interface.    And then I purchased an Apollo. And my Apollo, I have a mostly love relationship with my Apollo because of the plug-ins that work with it, which I absolutely love. But however, when we talked in our last episode about computer and keeping your computer up to date, well the (laughs) latest version of Mac OS is not up to date with the latest version of the Apollo. So you just have to make sure that you are aware of what's happening. The one that I recommend in terms of like a really great price, and I think works for the majority of people is the Steinberg UR22. And that is like about a hundred and — I wanna say $170. And I had one that I used for years, and it was just a workhorse and I love it. And that does all of the conversion, versus Gillian, if I'm correct, in saying with a USB mic, the conversion happens at the base of the microphone, right? So converting analog to digital. So there's a chip there that's doing that conversion.    Gillian: The biggest difference between the two is that when you use an interface, the mic just gets to be a mic, but within the USB mic it's all happening. And usually you'll see a little headphone jack too. It does A to D and then D back to A conversion.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You pay less and you get everything is gonna be slightly lower quality because you're paying for --   Anne: You gotta fit into a tiny, little --   Gillian: — a microphone — all of the conversion, all of those things in one small device versus, you know, separating them out. So that's kind of where don't use USB mic comes from just because you can get higher quality with the separate.   Anne: You have so many more choices. Right? Because you can have a Focusrite or a Steinberg or an Apollo.   Gillian: You get to mix and match.   Anne: And you can have whatever microphone you want (laughs) connecting up to it.    Gillian: The other thing that I love about that is that there's room to upgrade. So let's say you wanna splurge on a really expensive mic and you're, just, you know, oh, I wanna start with this interface. Or vice versa. You wanna splurge on an Apollo for $1000, but you wanna use a $200 microphone and then say I'm gonna wait a couple years and then upgrade. Personally I've used Apollos, I've used UAD. I kind of struggle with the software issue even though I've used the plugins. They're awesome. I like Focusrite stuff. I like the Scarlets. I think it's great. I think voice actors really only need one input, possibly two. If you wanna have two mics set up just to switch between, you know, a shotgun and a large diaphragm condenser, if you want 'em at the same time. I like Apogee as well. The Apogee Solo and the Duet, those are great too. Those work really well. So those are my faves.    Anne: I'll just disagree with you on the Scarlet only because I've just had a lot of voice talent that have had bad luck, and I think mostly it's -- and I myself have thrown away two of them. And I think mostly a few years back, I think they used a bad chip set. I'm not sure what it was. Or they created these bundles where you got headphones, microphone, and interface all in the same package. And I think they used lower quality parts. And what would happen is voice actors would find, all of a sudden they'd get some sort of a noise or hissing, and nobody knew what it was, and it ended up being the interface. So for me that just kind of, I tossed that one to the side and said, I'm not gonna recommend that one anymore. But Scarlet, typically Focusrite had an impeccable reputation there for a while until I ran into bad luck with it past few years.    I think if you buy a bundled package, (laughs) meaning from a manufacturer or something, especially at Costco, as much as I love Costco, right, there are packages made, packages that are made for Costco. Sometimes they use cheaper parts in those, and sometimes you'll find that the quality won't last as long. Sometimes though you'll buy stuff at Costco, not necessary technical equipment, but you'll find things at Costco that's better (laughs) than you would find at other stores. But that's just my personal experience.    Gillian: I see. I've never had any bad experiences with Focusrite. I've used the larger hardware as well, the professional studio models of stuff. And those sound amazing. I think I've had a lot of friends and myself who've used the Scarlet interfaces and haven't had issues. So, that's my experience. And it's so funny, I've been wondering why people don't recommend bundles because I wouldn't buy audio gear from Costco (laughs). But there's a few places, like Sweetwater is my favorite place to buy gear.   Anne: Yeah, but they'll bundle individual pieces together. Now, I'm talking about manufacturers that create whole bundled sets of things together.    Gillian: Well, Sweetwater is awesome. And B and H, they also have some great bundles. And with Sweetwater specifically, if there's a bundle you like, but there's a piece of gear you don't like, you can reach out to them personally and swap it around and get a discount from sort of buying in bulk. And they have some pre-made stuff so that if someone was trying to set up their home studio, didn't know where to start, it gives you a little place to get started.    Anne: And one thing I will say before we go, one thing that I love about Sweetwater is you get tech support. Oh my God, that is like unheard of these days. Like if you don't know, if you're having a problem installing the interface, you can call them up and get help. And that to me is invaluable.    Gillian: They're amazing,    Anne: They're wonderful to work with. So.   Gillian: Yeah. Very knowledgeable. I love Sweetwater. It's my favorite place to put my money. I have a few friends that work there as well, and all of their employees are highly trained and they know --   Anne: Very educated --   Gillian: — about the gear. It's like a prerequisite to work there.    Anne: Wow. We could go on forever, but, uh…   Gillian: We could.    Anne: Good stuff, Gillian, thank you so much.    Gillian: Thank you. And for anybody who is interested to get your audio assessed by me, I know we did a few episodes about it, but if you missed them, you can just head to my website, GillwiththeG.com. It'll, I'll be linked down here and I have some audio assessments. I have a little free course on, on setting up your home studio and a few blog posts or a bunch of blog posts just talking about different audio things if you're interested in learning more.    Anne: Awesome guys.    Gillian: So hungry for knowledge, (laughs).   Anne: And Gillian is a BOSS. Otherwise, she wouldn't be on the BOSS — she wouldn't be, she wouldn't be on the BOSS podcast. Anyways guys, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys -- oh, and a big shout-out, before I forget, to ipDTL, who is our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Join Anne & Lau as they provide expert insights on overcoming self-sabotage and building powerful connections in the voice over industry. Learn to bring your authentic self to every performance, acknowledge negative self-talk, and rise above self-doubt. Discover strategies to take control of your negative self-talk and move past excuses to help you excel in your voice over career. Anne & Lau will also guide you on how trying new things and getting used to small failures can help you break out of a perfectionist rut and take your voice over business to the next level.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hello, BOSSes. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS superpower series with my ever so special guest,(laughs), Lau Lapides.    Lau: Thank you, Anne. Hello. How are you?    Anne: How are you? Oh, awesome. Look at us. How are you?   Lau: Jinx.    Anne: What is that punch? What is that? Punch Bug. Punch Bug?   Lau: (laughs). Wait, what is that show? Uh, Wonder Twin powers, activate.    Anne: Activate.   Lau: Form of --   Anne: Right? Business superpowers. Activate.    Lau: Activate.    Anne: Activate.    Lau: (laughs) Ooh, I love that. (laughs)    Anne: Speaking of superpowers, activating, sometimes I find that my students have a hard time activating their superpowers, and I'm a firm believer that everybody has superpowers in the booth. However, it takes a lot to get past things so that they can activate those superpowers. It's like they get in their own way. Right? Get out of your own way.    Lau: Yes. Get out of your -- if there were a place, if there were a waiting room that we could leave ourselves in when we go into the booth, or a camera, or an interview, or wherever you're going to do your work, we could leave ourselves there and not worry about it until we come out and get ourselves again — that would be a good thing to do.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so tough. I think I always go back to what we do is so personal, right? Our voice is such a personal extension of ourselves, and we're being asked to bring ourselves to a performance constantly. But yet, there are times when we cannot do that, right? In reality, we think we're trying to bring the performer, right, to the performance, but in reality, we want you to bring yourself to the performance. And I think that is what most people have the hardest time doing, getting out of their own way so that they can bring themselves to that audition, to the booth, to the read, whatever that is. And so how do we get out of our own way, Lau? I mean, I think it's a struggle that everyone that gets into voiceover encounters at one point or another.    Lau: I mean, I think that this is a struggle that we encounter throughout our lifetime, whether we're a voiceover talent or not, but certainly actors of all kinds are always going through identity crisis, always going through, who am I now, and am I good enough? That old imposter syndrome?    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.    Lau: And one thing that I always do, and I do this for myself, and I recommend this as a coach as well, is self-talk scripting. I think self-talk scripting is really important to do. And you guys, you can do this, and you can do this all day long, and you can even do it in your head. But I recommend you start out by doing it on paper and write down your negative script. That is the thing that you are saying to yourself in the moment that is really negative. And then I want you to convert that into something that's positive and probably closer to the truth.    Anne: I like that.    Lau: Yeah. It just gives you a step.    Anne: And hang that in your studio. Hang it in your studio.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So you see it. Yes. Absolutely.    Lau: Yes. And so it can be revolutionary in the sense of saying, wow, if I'm moving towards some sort of enlightenment in my personhood and in my career, I have to be authentically who I am, which means I'm flawed. I'm not perfect by any means, and I'm not even close to it. I'm a real person who's interesting and diverse and complex and sophisticated. So when I have something that comes in my way to self-sabotage my success, I have to stop and recognize it. I have to take accountability for it, and then I have to change it.    Anne: And I think number one, for people really just starting off -- I think people that have been doing this for a while, they understand the process. But the first thing that people will do is judge how they sound. And we've talked about this so many times, right? They're like, oh, I don't like the way that audition sounds. And I don't think it sounds like what they want it to sound like. And that right there is your self-sabotage. The fact that you're saying, okay, it needs to sound a certain way, and you're not in any way thinking, how can I bring myself to this read? Or how can I bring my person to this read to make it unique, to make it something that will really perk up the ears of the casting director and really tell the story. That's what gets in the way, I think, a lot of times.    Lau: And even as part of that, like if you're having a piece of copy in front of you, a script in front of you, anything written in front of you, that gymnastics that a lot of times you may go through in saying, I don't know if I wanna do this. I'm not ready for this. I don't really know what this means. And I've never seen — all the stuff, all the excuses we start to come up with --   Anne: Oh, so many excuses.   Lau: -- to procrastinate from getting to the job.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? I'd love to come up with that first before we even open our mouth. (laughs). Like, what do we say to stop us from getting to the point of doing the job?    Anne: Well, I'm gonna say, stop like talking to yourself and beating yourself up about how you sound and spend that time instead getting out of your way. How can you get out of your way constructively? Well, there's a little thing called Google(laughs). Anne GanGoogle says, Google. Right? Especially if you've got a script and you've got some clues in that script that can help you find out more about what that script, that content is about. Because to bring yourself to that party, you've gotta involve yourself in the story of the script. And the more you know about the story of the script, the more you know about the brand that's involved in that script, the more you know about these little clues that are in the script, these little sayings or nuances, the more you can educate yourself on that, the easier it's gonna be for you to bring your point of view to it.    Lau: Hmm. I love that. And add on to that, have your circle ready to go. Who's your circle? Your coaches, your family, your friends, whatever. Just have people there that you can call upon to remind you about your greatness and your fabulosity.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Now, make sure they're not gonna rip you down. Make sure they're not gonna rip you apart and make you self-doubt. Because if they do that, then it's counterproductive. You want people who are going to keep building you up, building you up, building you up, so that you have the confidence to face what you need to face. It doesn't mean they're lying to you. They may not even be in the industry. They may not even have the industry knowledge, but you wanna have that circle of people there for you to call upon to say, you know what? I don't feel great today, or I don't think I sound great. What do you think? And they say, I don't hear anything wrong with your voice. Your voice sounds great. So what's your deal? And it makes you just stop and get out of your head. I would say get out of your head and get into the world.    Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Definitely you need your network, your VO family. And honestly, as we were discussing before, in a weird sense, I'm gonna say you are more than VO. If you just take a look at the words voiceover, right, there's really not much substance to voiceover in words. It's like a voice, but in reality, you are so much more than just that voice. I mean, you really have to start establishing yourself or thinking of yourself as much more than just the voice. You are the actor, you are the entrepreneur, you are the business person.    And with that, I think, comes a sense of something that you can bring to that read or that script that is more than just thinking, oh, it's just about the voice and then stressing yourself out over and over and over again and beating yourself up about how it's not -- what am I doing wrong? Or why is nobody listening to it? What is the feedback? And absolutely reach out to that network, network of coaches, network of accountability buddies that you have to get you out of that funk. Because sometimes it is a funk.    Lau: It is. And much of the time, that's all it is. I would even say, do something. Okay? And what I mean by that is, be active and be in action. The moment you're inside your head oftentimes will be inactive, right? Now if you're thinking you're active, but I want you to be interactive. So meaning the moment you have that thought, you need to cut it off by physically doing something. Whether you move to another room, whether you call someone up, whether you go out and take a walk, whether -- whatever you do, you need to break that also with physical energy. It's really important. Because that heady stuff weighs us down and we actually get cut off from the rest of our body.    Anne: Yeah. What a great piece of -- we can go home now, Lau. That was a wonderful piece of advice. (Lau laughs) Absolutely. Sometimes just getting up, taking a breath and deep breathing, getting out of the studio. I always like to pet my fur babies. Go see my hubby. Or just do something that gets you out of that, out of that funk, out of that mental -- and you're right, physical can really be a wonderful way to get yourself out of that funk. And when you get out of that funk, and you can actually start to get into the story, get into whatever it is, the dialogue, whatever it is that you are working on in your booth, magic will happen.    Lau: I love it.    Anne: I always say to people, when it's right, you feel it. You don't hear it, but you feel it. And that's where I think, every once in a while, when you get that script and you just feel it. And it's like, oh, damn. You don't know quite how it happened, but you felt that it was right. And I wanna say that's what we should always strive for, right? Just that feeling that, yeah, I hit that, that worked. And then even if you, let's say, don't get that audition or don't get that gig, be proud of the fact that you have evolved. That's such a beautiful, wonderful feeling, when you're like, oh yeah, that was good. That was really good. And you can feel proud of yourself for that.    Lau: Yes. And do a little VO feng shui, meaning do two things. I want you to think up a new idea and learn a new technique that is the implementation of the idea. So it could be something very simple like, oh, today I'm going to, oh, I wanna reach out to this company or these people. I'm gonna reach out to these people in this way. And then I have a new technique for doing that, because I'm gonna do a drip campaign. So that to me is a little feng shui of the spirit of you and your business. You don't have to do exactly the same way every day and get into a rut. You can really say, this week I wanna try something new. And I sat with Anne, I sat with another coach or whatever, and I learned a new idea, a new technique, and now I'm gonna try it.    Anne: Well, I love that you just brought it out of the booth and into your business, which is great. So getting out of your own way doesn't just mean performance-wise in your booth and acting wise; it also means in your business. So getting out of your own way in your business. And I cannot tell you, there's so many things, Lau, that a lot of people in their business don't like to do because, number one, maybe they're not familiar or they're not educated, they don't know how to do it, and so therefore they don't do anything. Or they will simply just say, oh, I can't, I just can't possibly do that. I don't either have the money or I don't have whatever the excuses are. And I've heard them all, right? And money is a big one, and I get it right, as BOSSes running a business.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: I totally get the money thing. And we've had multiple episodes about money. But I will say is that you have to open your mind for abundance and open your mind for the fact that you need to invest that money and also save that money so you have money to reinvest in your business. And that can help you. Just that alone, money, get out of your own way. Right? Get out of your own way with money. Get out of your own way with marketing. Get out of your own way with all the things, maybe cold calling or whatever it is that can help to grow your business.    Lau: I'm feeling an Eleanor Roosevelt quote coming on (Anne laughs), and I have to release it --    Anne: I love it.    Lau: — so I don't explode.    Anne: Release it, please.    Lau: Here it is. Here it is. I just have to do it. Okay? It's like, do one thing every day that scares you.    Anne: Oh God, yes. Oh, I love that quote.    Lau: Okay. And I'm not saying, God forbid, don't jump off a building. I'm not saying that. I'm saying within the framework of who we are as talent and as business, do one thing that kicks you a little bit, to do something that's a little uncomfortable that may even really scare you and see what happens on the other end of it.    Anne: I'll tell you, that's hard. That's not an easy thing to do. And especially if you've been doing this for a long time. And there's so many, and I'm sure, Lau, you get this a lot too. I hear from a lot of students how they're, they're stuck in a rut. Or I'll do consult calls. So people will say, I, gosh, I've been in voiceover for years and I'm in this rut. I need help. And this is great because you're reaching out. Right? But when you reach out for that help, you then cannot say to me, okay, I can't do this because of this, or I can't do this because of that. Or can you give me the quick 15-minute answer? No, that's the other thing. In a 15-minute, 20-minute consult call, I can't give you the answer to all of life's issues. Or how to run your VO business. However, I can say, here's what I suggest to help you to get out of your own way.    Lau: And if anything, grab a buddy. Grab accountability buddy. Preferably someone in your business because they get what's going on. They feel it too. They're living it too.    Anne: Oh yeah.    Lau: And move through the tougher experiences together.    Anne: So powerful.    Lau: Like hold each other accountable.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: You know, have that coffee together weekly or biweekly. and say, you are gonna do this and it's a lot of money. And it's kind of scary. Well, did you do it? So let's do it together.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Sometimes we need that collab. We need that ensemble thing to get us going. I know I'm a creative, I love ensemble. I need that team oftentimes.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: I don't think you have to apologize for that. We're not an isolated being; we don't have to just work alone. We have wonderful people. Like you're on another whole coast, 3000 miles away, and we hold each other accountable to showing up, to giving our all, to caring about our audience, to being awake, to throwing on our lipstick. I mean, that's all hard work. It doesn't look like it is, but it is, because so many would rather lay in bed. They'd rather watch TV. They'd rather go the easy route. Go the difficult route.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: You know, challenge yourself; there's a lot better stuff waiting on the other side of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna come back to, again, what you said about writing things down. I'm a big believer -- I love that you said to write down the negative thoughts and then cross it out and write, like write the absolute opposite of that.    Lau: Yes.    Anne: Turn that around. And I love that because I'm the person that likes to write and cross things out as I accomplish them and get them done. So if you have those negative thoughts, write them down, cross it out, and turn that thought around. And also with anything that you've done in terms of not just negative thoughts, but in terms of accomplishments, I think writing down your accomplishments can really work wonders for helping you to gain confidence and to get out of your own way. 'Cause I think a lot of times when you get in your way, it stems from fear and it stems from a lack of confidence. And reading something that is solidly written down, an affirmation, or even like meditation every day, right, can really help to beat that negativity out of your brain.    Lau: Hmm. Oh, these are great. And I do, one thing I love that I learned from a wonderful coach that I worked with, do a brain dump. Try to do it every day if you can. It's just a five-minute sitting at your table, your desk, in your car, and I want you to write, write, write, write for five minutes, time yourself, five minutes. Don't pick the pen off the paper. Write, write, write, don't edit, don't critique. Get everything in your head out on paper. And that's gonna feng shui your head, that's gonna empty your head and leave room for focus.    Anne: I love that. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.    Anne: That's a quote, Lau. Feng shui your head.    Lau: Feng shui your head.   Anne: And get out of your own way. (laughs).    Lau: Because you don't ,believe it or not, you don't have to believe everything that comes into your head. You know? We get backed up. (laughs)    Anne: And the biggest -- ‘cause I took a feng shui course, by the way, back in the day and it was one of the best things I'd ever done, is that clutter? Right? If you have clutter in your house, you have clutter in your brain. And if you have clutter in your brain, I love that. Do a brain dump so that you can then start to think clearly.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: And then start to really focus on what you need to do to get out of your own way, to make that marketing effort, to create that website, to go ahead and get that additional coaching, to audition for that job that you're scared about and out of your comfort zone. Wow. All that good stuff.    Lau: Yeah, 'cause we don't wanna hold so much in our head and be balancing all of that and then try to give output that is like high productivity. It's very hard for us to do that. We have to release certain things and get them out there that are not priority for us or that are sabotaging us. We gotta get it out. Sometimes you even just like clean your desk or rearrange something. You know?    Anne: Absolutely. Or when you come into your studio, clean your studio, or do the brain dump before you do your auditions for the day. I love that.    Lau: It's awesome, it's awesome.    Anne: A lot of times when we're in the middle of an audition, if we're stressed out about other things that are happening, that's coming out in our voice, right? And so we really just need to (breathes), you know, do a brain dump, do a few breathing exercises to relax, and really focus on the story at hand, which is not gonna be like, I don't know, what you need to finish up or when you have to start dinner or what you have to do at home, or what's stressing you out.    Lau: Yeah. And how the things in front of you, whether they're affirmations or mantras, or you just write a little sticky note to yourself to remind yourself -- like one of my famous sticky notes that I love is that I'll just look just for a second and it'll say, you're enough.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Stop trying to be perfect. Stop trying to be too much. Stop trying to be everything to everyone. You're enough, you're enough. And it's just a quick reminder. Like we need those quick reminders when we're busy and all of that, to not overload ourselves with stressors that are not necessary. They're really concocted stressors that ultimately tear us down and get in the way of our productivity. It stops us.    Anne: And I think also when we meet people, new people, right, I feel as though, I mean, hopefully anyways, I'm a fairly good judge of people, I think. I use a lot of gut instinct and intuition, and I feel as though that personality that I meet when we meet for the first time, if I initially connect to that, that is what I think you need to get to that level in your booth or in your business. Right? That this is who you are, this is your personality. This is, and I always like to say that if your personality comes from a place of service from the heart, I really feel as though that can benefit your performance, that can benefit your business.    If you are coming from a place that doesn't have a bunch of stressors from here and there. And it's really just coming from a place of, let me service this copy. Let me be the best business, let me be the best voice that I can be, and let me network with my client to see how can I help? Instead of coming from a place of what is my talent? I'm not talented enough, or my voice isn't good enough, it needs to come, like, how can I best service my client? How can I best serve my business by bringing myself and my heart of service to it?    Lau: Hmm. Oh gosh. I just love that. That gave me tingles. I love that. That's great. I would even push that even farther. And I would say, find a moment that you can sacrifice or give of yourself in a selfless way, because we wanna be selfish. We wanna be self-centered. We wanna get, get, get. Find a moment where you can authentically give. And that is a moment that when you start doing that, it's kind of painful. But then you get used to it and you say, wow, I got so much in return. So like for instance, when I was a working talent all the time, before I became an agent and a coach, I was working talent, I would talk to people and create all sorts of relationships with casting, and they'd say, you're just not right for this, Lau. I mean, you're just… I'd say, well, right, okay.    Anne: Yeah. And then worry about it ever again.   Lau: Guess what I'd come back with? I had so much chutzpah now that I think about it. (Anne laughs) I'd come back and I'd say, you know what? That's okay. I'm gonna get you the right person. Who do you need? And they couldn't believe I said that to them. They'd be like, well we're, we're looking for this. We'll send you the breakdowns, and maybe you can find some -- I, I always, always would put in referrals.    Anne: And then when they need you, you're the first person at the top of their mind.    Lau: And the funniest part about for me was it became much more satisfaction than getting it for myself. So (laughs)   Anne: Isn't that so telling now that you're an agent?   Lau: It's telling.   Anne: And that's what you do. Right?    Lau: Yeah. It literally built a whole career for me because I started that habit.    Anne: That is so interesting because before my career in voiceover, I used to place students in internships and teach, of course. So everything for me is very telling. I coach now. And I also, I love to place my students on rosters. I love to recommend jobs to them. I love to do referrals, I love to cast. And so I feel like there's that match, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: When we know our students or we know our clients and we can put those two together.    Lau: That's right.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And sometimes, and this is where you and I have spoken about, be interactive, don't be passive about it. Sometimes they're not coming to you. Like sometimes you're just observing that there are people around you that they need to know they need to meet. You know, something about your friends or your talent. Because remember in business, anytime you make a referral or recommendation, and it works out, it makes you look great.    Anne: Oh, absolutely.    Lau: Like you become --   Anne: Oh my gosh, yes.    Lau: — someone that they can't live without. Right?    Anne: Absolutely. So they trust you.   Lau: They trust you.    Anne: People buy from people they know, like, and trust.    Lau: Yes. So don't be afraid and think, oh, but I'm --   Anne: I'm giving a job away.   Lau: — myself.    Anne: I'm giving a job away.    Lau: No, no, no. Because you know what? If they really wanna work with you, they'll work with you.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. But that doesn't mean you're out of the picture. There are many times, especially in live circumstances, where you can do introductions, you can do referrals.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: You can do this and that and just plant the seed. And they may not go for it, but a lot of times they do.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And they go, oh my gosh, Lau, you introduced me to this person. This person's amazing. We signed a contract the other day. Do you take a percentage of that? I don't.    Anne: But Lau, you don't. But then sometimes you can.    Lau: So that's a whole job unto itself. (laughs)    Anne: Well, there you go. So look, I'm not gonna say I try to get a dollar for everything, but honestly like that when, when we're talking about the referral and the agenting and then getting other people work, when it turns out to be something profitable, it can also mean profit for you and your business. Now, I'm not saying everything should turn into that, but I mean I've had instances where I've referred clients or I've referred — and I've been offered and I'm like, no, no, no. But it has been insisted by the client that I get some sort of a fee for that. And so, and I think I am worthy. Right? That was a good referral. And both client and talent are now making money off of that or they're being fairly compensated. So I don't entirely dismiss the idea saying, oh no, no, no, no. If somebody's gonna say here, no, I am going to pay, I'm a business short. That's awesome.    Lau: Absolutely.    Anne: And how else can I help you (laughs)?    Lau: Well listen, if you get really good at that and you start doing that a lot, there's all different ways to frame that, whether you do management, whether you do fee for service, whether you do — there's all sorts a way to frame that matchmaking thing that some of us are really good at.,my point is, is like, like just give, just give. Don't worry about giving. You'll get enough back in return.    Anne: Well Karma.    Lau: Karma.    Anne: It's karma. I mean, VO BOSS was started from giving. Literally, if you remember, I tell my story over and over again. I was trying to give up my VO Peeps brand and I was gonna roll it into VO BOSS, 'cause I wanted to continue educating. I wanted this to be a resource, an educational resource for the community. And it turned out to be so much in addition to that, really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: Look, I got to meet you. And I mean there's just so many wonderful things that have come from the place of giving, and I really feel that every business needs to have that aspect to — which is a very popular trend these days with businesses too.    Lau: You just brought up a mouthful. The BOSSes would love to know about, without naming any names or titles of anything, you and I met doing an online panel together.    Anne: Oh, yes, we did.    Lau: But here's the thing I want the BOSSes to know. I can't speak for you, Anne, but I didn't make a penny on that.    Anne: No, I didn't. Yeah.    Lau: And that was A-Okay by me because that was education to that company and that community. And I love that. I love that. But look what came out of this.    Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.    Lau: Look at this relationship that was built out of that.    Anne: Absolutely.    Lau: And this is the example of what we're saying, like karma.   Anne: A place of service, a place from heart.    Lau: Look at this. If we hadn't done that, if we said, look, I'm at a place in our careers, we do make money for everything we do, whatever, we wouldn't have met, we may not met.    Anne: That's true. Very true.    Lau: Isn't that amazing when you think about that.    Anne: There you go. And what a great story. What a great story to end on.    Lau: Very heartwarming.    Anne: Good stuff. BOSSes, get outta your own way. You can do it. Get rid of the clutter that stops you from being the very best you that we know you are. And we know you are the BOSSes. So, all right. Lau, thank you. It's been great.   Lau: Do your thing, thing.   Anne: Yes. It's been great. And so speaking of giving back, right? As individuals, it can be difficult to make a huge impact. But as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities and give back in ways that we never thought before possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to my favorite sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like Lau and myself like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne is joined by special guest, Ian Russell, a multi-award-winning voice actor. They discuss his career in the voice over industry, including his journey to success. They talk about the importance of social media and authenticity in character creation. He advises aspiring voiceover actors to be careful not to violate non-disclosure agreements and to use social media to support their profiles. Anne and Ian also discuss the importance of respecting specified ethnicities and the limitations of casting notices. They highlight that authenticity and believability are essential in video game casting, and that having an acting background is a serious advantage. Tune in to hear the full conversation.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring very special guest Ian Russell to the podcast. Hey Ian. Yay.   Ian: Hey, Anne.   Anne: welcome. For those of you BOSSes out there, we'll tell you a little bit about Ian, and then he's gonna continue on telling us about his journey, he is a, a multi-award winning, seasoned voice actor working in commercial, corporate, video games, audiobooks. His voice can be heard for companies including Coca-Cola, MasterCard, Nestle, Heineken, Club Med, Phillips, and a bunch more. He was the recipient of the One Voice Male Voice of the Year 2020 award. And also in that year, he was also best character performance. Is that correct?   Ian: Animation, yeah.   Anne: And then continuing in 2021, he won Gaming Best Performance for One Voice Awards. And in 2022, the SOVAS Outstanding International Audio Description, Museums and Cultural Sites. Wow. That is fantastic. Ian, so honored to have you here on the show to talk about your journey and your wisdom. So , let's start.   Ian: Well, good luck with that.   Anne: Well, let's start telling people about your journey. How did you get into voiceover, a little bit about yourself and how you got into voiceover.   Ian: It's a long and winding road, which is a Beatles reference, but the first ever voiceover I ever, ever did was for a radio station in Liverpool. And it was a friend of mine worked at the radio station, and they had a pre-recorded interview for Paul McCartney when he bought and set up the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts in Liverpool. It was his old school. And rather than having a boring interview where it was just Paul McCartney and some radio guy , he asked me. I was, we were in a local acting thing together, and he asked me to be the voice of Paul McCartney's teacher.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: When Paul McCartney was a kid. So we linked the questions, you know, and it  was like, oh yes, that McCartney he was always playing around with a guitar. He'll never amount anything. So it was that kind of -- we made it funny. I didn't even know what voiceover was, but I did it anyway. And it was fun. I didn't get paid or anything. I was doing it for a mate, but I still have the magnetic cassette tape, shows how long ago it was.   Anne: Yep. There you go. .   Ian: And then 30 years go by, and I get married, and my wife's stumbling around for what she can buy me. And we, because you know --   Anne: What happened 30 years though? That was a long time.   Ian: Oh, sorry. I, I went off and got a real job. I was, I was working in sales and sales management in the northwest of England and in Belgium and Holland and in and around Oxford.   Anne: So International for sure. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. That's a whole other story, which we could get into another time. But that would use up our 30 minutes, would be nothing left . So anyway, so my wife's like, oh, well what do I buy him for Christmas this year? And I had done a bit of sort of community theater stuff as a young man, just explained with the Paul McCartney thing. And so she found a one day introduction to voiceover.   Anne: Uh-huh.   Ian: In London. It's a place called the Show Reel. And she bought me that for Christmas 2012. It's 10 years almost to the day.   Anne: Wow. Yeah.   Ian: And then two years later, we've had the credit crunch and the bank -- I was working for a bank at the time and they were trying to offload people, and I had to reapply for my own job multiple times. And in the end I'm like, I volunteer as tribute . Let me go, you know, I'm done here. I'm older than all these young guys. I don't want to be rushing around half of the UK seeing multimillionaires coming home at night, barely seeing my kids, writing reports 'til midnight, and then doing the same rinse and repeat tomorrow. I'll have a heart attack and die. Let me go. And two years later, they eventually let me go. And so my wife's American and we said, well, what are we gonna do now? ? Well, let's sell everything and move to America. Be near my dad, says my wife. So that's what we did.   Anne: I love that. Let's do it.   Ian: And I said, well, what am I, what am I gonna do?   Anne: Let's sell everything and move.   Ian: I'll give that voiceover thing a go. And I went to the guy in London and I said, does anybody get hired for this? And he went, yeah. And I said, would anybody hire me? And he went, I don't see why not. And that was the ringing endorsement that I had to come off and start. So 2014 I started properly, I would say.   Anne: Wow. Wow. And so when you started, what was it that -- I assume you, you got coaching, you got a demo, and then you started working, and so you started working and were successful in which genres?   Ian: I think I'm a product of the internet age. You know, I live in the metaphorical middle of nowhere. And everything I do is via the internet, pretty much. So I started probably the way a lot of people start. I didn't know anybody and I didn't know anything. I had some experience, life experience that helps for sure, the sales and having done a bit of community theater and all that. But I knew no one and I knew nothing. So I started searching on the internet, and I paid money down to online casting and, and started throwing mud at the wall. And I think in that market you do a lot of explainers. You do a lot of corporate. You do a lot of e-learning, e-sort of things that, that sort of thing.   Anne: And of course in the States now, you know, that accent of yours doesn't hurt you. I had a very good friend when I started and she was hired all the time for e-learning. Because I think for us listening, and you gotta have some sort of interesting -- like an American accent is, we hear it all the time. But a British accent might be something that, oh, that makes it more interesting. And so she was high in demand for e-learning and, and those explainers and corporate things. And she was always so wonderfully like natural and conversational about it. And it was just a pleasure to listen to her all the time. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanna aspire to be that relaxed and that friendly in my voiceovers. And so I can totally see where that just, it lends it. It's also a very large market. And so everybody kind of gets there, and it's a good, good place to start off. And I know a lot of students that I work with, they start off in corporate or e-learning.   Ian: Yeah. There's masses of it. And it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Exactly.   Ian: You might not get the best rate, but it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Now, you won these awards, but these awards were not for corporate or e-learning. It was for gaming and character performance. And so let's talk about, 'cause I know when people start out, they're very concerned about you know, what's my niche? Like, where do I start and how do I know what I'm good at? You evolved into becoming an award-winning voice talent in gaming and characters.   Ian: Yeah, I know.   Anne: So let's talk about that.   Ian: How does that happen?   Anne: Yeah. How does that happen?   Ian: I'm gonna say I got lucky, but we all know that that's hard work meets preparation and all of that. But in 2015, so a year after I'd started, I booked a role in a significant video game called Payday 2. And the role is utterly -- it's this South African mercenary. He speaks like that, he's Locke, his name is Locke. And I have been performing Locke for Starbury Studios for seven years now.   Anne: Oh wow.   Ian: And it was the performance of Locke that won me the video game award last year. And we're still making content. And at the end of this year, we have Payday 3 coming up.   Anne: Ooh. Get ready, BOSSes.   Ian: And so there's a lot of chatter around who's gonna be in Payday 3. You know what it's like with a lot of --   Anne: NDAs.   Ian: -- casting for voiceover. It's --   Anne: You can't tell --   Ian: -- NDAs -- Well, well, if I knew something, I'd be able to tell you, but voice over casting often happens right at the end. So nothing, I can't say anything. I don't know anything. So.   Anne: So seven years.   Ian: I'm like a mushroom.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: Yeah. So, so that was my first video game thing. And I think a lot of younger folk, they're growing up now with video games and animation and it's a very aspirational genre for people to get into. And I think I got one, and I'll keep the story very short, but Locke, the character, has his own Twitter account, which now has almost 12,000 followers.   Anne: Do you have input into that account?   Ian: It's mine.   Anne: Okay. Okay.   Ian: It's all mine.   Anne: Now, was that something that maybe was requested of you through an agent or the company or --   Ian: No.   Anne: -- you just created it? That's a very interesting marketing um   Ian: Well, it was suggested to me because I went on a charity stream as Locke for Payday, and the guys that were running it said, you might want to set up a separate account because you don't want your personal account flooded with teenage boys --   Anne: Yeah, that makes sense.   Ian: -- swearing at you. Frankly.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Ian: Asking you about Locke, you know, what's your favorite color, that kind of thing. So I set up a separate Twitter account for him then; that was 2017-ish. And that, that's kind of just grown from there. And I don't just use it for Locke. I use it for Locke. But I, all my video game stuff I promote on there because they're all video game players. So they're interested.   Anne: I love that I'm talking to you about this right now because I wanna know, is the content monitored at all by the game company or the people that hire you at all? Or if you were to say something that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for your character, I would imagine that that's kind of a line that you walk.   Ian: For sure, it is. I'm pretty sure there have been several occasions where I've written something, and I've had the wherewithal to go, no, don't do that. Don't say that. That would be silly . The only thing that Starbury said is, because they own the character, they own the IP of the character, that I can't monetize it for myself. I have run charity fundraisers and things like that, but if I'm gonna do anything out of the ordinary, I go through them and say, hey, I'm thinking about about this; what do you think? I don't think they've ever said, no.   Anne: That's something that's so interesting for those BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into video games or character animation. I mean, there really becomes -- it can have a celebrity attached to it, and that becomes more than just voicing. Right? That is voicing. And then also it becomes a marketing effort. It becomes something that is outside of your voiceover persona that is of concern, I would think, for you to make sure that you're not gonna say the wrong thing or make sure you're not gonna do something that spoils any new things coming out or disturbs any NDAs.   Ian: Yeah. I just basically assume that everything I've ever done is under NDA until it's public.   Anne: That's very wise, very wise.   Ian: I really don't, you know. It's just, it's easier to do that than to go, oh, I've been cast, I can't...   Anne: I think no matter what we do, we should consider that, even doing a lot of corporate work and e-learning, it really all should be considered.   Ian: It is one of the challenges with video games, because whilst we get cast often towards the end of the process, it can be months before the game is actually shipped. And I have got the list, but I've got games coming out this year with my voice in them, and I am burning, burning up with desire to tell people because I am so excited about it. And I just can't. And it's just really, really one of the hard things, you know, that you have to bury that.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So you got hired for this one game, it became something --   Ian: Yes. So the thing about the Twitter was, so a little while after that I had auditioned for a role in a Warhammer game called Inquisitor Martyr for one of the -- there were only gonna be three player characters. It was one of the player characters. And I got shortlisted, and they asked me for a second audition and I did that. And then they came back and they said, okay, it's down to two people, so can you do a third audition? I'm like, I almost didn't want to know. You know, me or the other guy. And if I don't get it, I know the other guy got it. And I'm like, I was so close. But , what I did say was, look, you must make the right casting choice for your game. But please know that I have a Twitter account with 10,000 followers who are all game players. And I promote any game I'm in on that Twitter account. So I just want you to know that.   Anne: I like that.   Ian: Don't let that influence your casting decision in any way at all, but know that I've got it.   Anne: Hey, that 27 years in sales, I think it served you well. I think it served you well. That's fantastic. I love that.   Ian: So I booked that. I don't know that, that's why I would like to think it was just because of my awesome acting talent. But it taught me a lesson that you can use these things to help support your profile, particularly in a high profile thing like animation or like games. You see like the anime guys that are doing that; they're always at cons promoting themselves. And you know that the anime companies are loving that. Because that sells more anime. And the video games is the same. So.   Anne: Now would you say that your award also was something you were able to use as a marketing for more characters and more work?   Ian: I'm gonna put it the other way around. I can't draw a direct line to -- I won this award in August last year in video games, and then suddenly I get cast in a lot of games. What I think happens, this is what I think happens, a lot of casters in video games are younger people. I mean, there are older ones as well, but they're very tech savvy. And I think that you --they get their auditions in, and if you get shortlisted, and you may not know you've been shortlisted, but they're gonna create a shortlist, and I think they pop over onto Instagram or onto Twitter --   Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.   Ian: Right?   Anne: And look at your profiles and --   Ian: They wanna, who's, who is this guy? Is he an umpti or whatever. And they see the awards and they see the interaction with a game community from my case. And they go, oh, he knows what he's doing. He's obviously done it before. You know, and you can say that til you're blue in the face in a pitch proposal, but nobody reads them, I don't think. But when they see it on Instagram or they see it on Twitter, it makes a difference.   Anne: Yeah. It's validation for them.   Ian: Yeah. It's that whole trust.   Anne: Right? That maybe they're picking somebody that has that little bit of trust. Yep. That you've got these experience.   Ian: Well, and you think how many -- as, as the game studios get bigger, how many multimillions of pounds they've got invested in a game. And it has to ship successfully, otherwise the company goes pop.   Anne: Absolutely.   Ian: That narrative story to a two or three talent generally telling the story is a big decision for them. So I do think they check. I have no evidence directly for it, but I absolutely think they check.   Anne: Especially I think as a lead character. Right? I mean, there's more responsibility than just the voicing of it, because like I said, there's a persona attached to it, that can be attached to it, and the potential for that character to be able to sell more game, new releases of games.   Ian: I kind of figure if I can help sell 10 or 20 or 30 copies of the game, I'm getting out someway towards paying my own fee.   Anne: Now -- right? Now, lemme ask you though, in terms of, let's say compensation for games, right? What are your thoughts about that? I mean, do voices for big games get paid better? There's really no royalties, residuals, like that kinda sucks.   Ian: No. It does. Yeah. If I was being paid union royalties for Payday 2, I'd be a wealthier man.   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: It's just the, that's the way it is, Anne. I don't have any control over it. So all I can do is negotiate the best fee I think I can for each individual one. But that's the other thing you've got, if you like AAA games at the top of the feeding frenzy, and they can afford to pay a great deal more. And at the bottom, you've got one guy with a 40-watt light bulb who's making a game, and he wants to get a voice in it, and he just doesn't have the budget. So you have to ask yourself then, is this a game that will further my profile? Do I want my -- you almost, you talk about the celebrity element of it. Do I want my name attached to this game?   Anne: Absolutely. Yeah.   Ian: And there are games I want attached. There are a lot of games out there that the content is marginal, should we say? Not safe for work is the phrase. . And there is no value to me as a talent in attaching my name to a game like that, because it would impact -- if I wanna be in a big AAA adventure game, I think it taints a little bit, my profile. So I, there are games that I will avoid and I will ask. There's one game I'm in and they have a safe for work version and they have a non-safe work version. And I said, uh, nothing to -- if you want this character in both versions, count me out. But they said, no, we can just write you into this one. So, they did that.   Anne: That's great. Look at that. That, you know, and that's interesting that you bring up these things that I never would've thought of, because obviously I'm not doing video games, but I love that you brought that up.   Ian: But you could, Anne.   Anne: Well, I could if I wanted to. I mean, you did it. So what made you, I'm gonna say, what made you audition for that first game? Did somebody suggest it to you? Did they say, oh, we're looking --   Ian: The Payday one? No, it was an open audition. It said South African mercenary.   Anne: And you said, oh, I can do that. Right?   Ian: Yeah, absolutely. I was so naive that I thought I could do everything.   Anne: So you said, I could do that.   Ian: Yeah, I can do that.   Anne: Okay. So I have to tell you my little story.   Ian: They cast me so great.   Anne: That's fantastic. I have to tell you my story. My story was a long time ago, like when I first started, I was on one of the pay-to-plays and they had a audition out, and they said it was for a phone system and it was for a British accent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I was naive , and I got it. And literally I worked for that company for 10 years. And it wasn't until like I actually spoke to somebody on the phone, because we had communicated, got jobs from them all the time onto this. And then it became not a cool thing to do because what accent am I doing? And it started to become that sort of a thing. Well, you're not a native. They didn't know. They said, oh my God, we thought you were native --   Ian: Oh, really?   Anne: -- British. And, and it was because I just, I didn't know any better, and I made the mistake. I didn't read that where it said they wanted native. And I said, oh, I can do that. I'll give it a shot. I'll throw my audition in. And I got it. And they employed me for a good 10 years before it was like, oh, now Anne, we just need your English. You know? Not, not your British. So, but it's so interesting that you kind of on a whim just did it. And I think that really speaks to having the confidence to kind of just put yourself out there, and even for things that you don't think you're good at, because they think when people get into this industry in the beginning, they're so concerned about, oh my God, I think I should do this, and I'm no good at character, or I'm no good at -- and I think that really, you don't really know until you try.   Ian: Well, let me share another quick story for you.   Anne: Sure.   Ian: So I auditioned for another game called Road Redemption, which is a motorcycle game. And you drive along the road and you have an iron stick and you're trying to hit other people off their motorbikes. And I auditioned with a sort of a Ray Wins, yeah. Come over, we all gonna hit you with a steel bat, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought, yeah, that'll work. And they decided that they liked my take on the character. So we got together on Skype . Who remembers Skype? And we are chatting, there's three of them, and there's me here. And they're like, what's your Australian accent like? Alright, where's that, right out of left field.   Anne: Where'd that come from?   Ian: Where'd that come from? And he said, because it's this sort of Mad Max kind of feel to the game. And they said, you know, what's your, and I said, very bad. I said, any Australian will immediately notice. You know, I can put another prawn on a barbie kind of thing. But everybody will, they will know, he's not from Australia anyway. So then we're on Skype and you hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And they've sent me a line on the, in the chat. Read that in your Australian accent, whatever it was. Hey, I'm gonna hit you in me iron bar, mate, you know, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Read that one in your Australian -- yeah, this shrimp's gonna really get you, you know, anyway. And at the end of it, they said, yeah, okay, we're gonna use you for the game. And I said, okay, do you want the Ray Winston thing or do you want this? Oh, we want the Australian thing. Okay. Well, I, like I said, they went, yeah, but Australia's such a small market for us. We're not worried about that.   Anne: We're not worried that people in Australia are gonna complain . Well, it's true.   Ian: Right. And Locke's the same thing with his South African. And where it led me to in my head was video games, even if they're sort of set in an earth-like environment, are fiction. And I think a lot of game makers now particularly, but certainly back then as well, the acting performance of the character outweighs --   Anne: Is more important.   Ian: -- the absolute accuracy of a given accent.   Anne: Very interesting. Especially now because now it's a casting thing. Are they casting a native UK or a native Australian? And I think that we are all in a spot, like are we going to audition for that? Ian: Well, with that rider of there are accent issues and there are ethnicity issues.   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Ian: You know, I absolutely would not put myself forward for a British SWANA or MENA or -- I can't say African American because that's American.   Anne: Yeah, no, I get, I get that.   Ian: British Black, I think.   Anne: I think if they're, if they're specifying -- yes. If they're specifying ethnicity, then I think, yeah, absolutely. It's something that we respect.   Ian: PGM, person of global majority.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Ian: That's, that, that works well for me. So there are things that I just will walk past now that maybe 10 years ago would've been acceptable.   Anne: Sure. Yeah. Things have definitely changed over the past just a few years.   Ian: This could be quite controversial, but I've seen casters ask for a minority ethnicity, and then in the sides it makes reference to, I don't know, America or Great Britain or whatever. And you're like, the ethnicity of of this character does not match the character in the script that you are portraying. And I fear a little bit, what's been the motivation for that?   Anne: You know what, interestingly enough, I know that you say that that's a very inter -- I had that with an e-learning, believe it or not, they had the characters, it was a character based e-learning, and they were all different ethnicities. And mine was a mixed ethnicity, but then they said, don't perform it in any kind of accent. And so I thought, well what is that there for then? You know what I mean? And that was a few years back now. I would kind of hope that if they're specifying ethnicity, that they try really hard to get that so that there can be authentic and genuine. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. And at the top end, some casting directors at the top of the market will challenge that sort of thing. They'll go back to the studio, they're in a strong enough position to go back to the studio and go, really? Does that work? Are you sure? And they will challenge that if you like the mass market, often the person hiring the voice and directing the voice is a part of the studio itself. So. Johnny at the back, go and get a voice actor, will you, for this character. I think a lot of that is kind of left to the voice actor to work out for themselves. If you have an any kind of an acting background, and you are auditioning for particularly indie video games, you are already streets ahead because the guys in the studios have never hired anyone before. They don't know who to hire really. It's kind of like, we'll know it when we hear it kind of thing. So if you can make a performance, if you can create a character that's believable within the universe of the game, you are already streets ahead.   Anne: It's very interesting that you bring up the casting directors for video games. And you know, it's not necessarily, I think, the talent agents of today that you think of for commercial and broadcast. For video games, you do have to make it authentic and believable. And these people may only be casting for their game, and maybe they've never cast for another game, or they don't have a lot of experience . But that's a great point. And so I think that even more so now, the marketing that you employed, having followers on Twitter, maybe putting your awards on your website so that it's out there and it's known, that definitely has an impact. Because your casting directors may or may not be as experienced as somebody who's casting like 10 commercials a day. Right? That's all they do. That they listen for voices and they cast, whereas games, they're so into their game that they know their characters, and they're listening for just that character to come alive, what they believe the character is like.   Ian: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I had a beautiful testimonial from an indie guy, he put on Twitter, it was on Twitter, his casting notice. And he said, the character is 60 and British from the southwest of England, and he's got early signs of dementia. And he said, but there aren't many older British actors. You know, I've always found it a struggle to cast older actors. So when I wrote to him, I said, , I am 60.   Anne: I'm old. .   Ian: So anyway, so I got cast of that surprising, surprise me though. He actually cast me as a second character that he was struggling. I said to him, you said you were struggling to cast this. Have you've got anything else that you're struggling to cast? So he sent me, said, yes, I'm struggling to cast this. And he sent it to me, and I thought, I can have a go at that. So I sent it back and I said, do you mean something like this? So I didn't put it as though I was auditioning. I just said, do you mean something like this? And he went, oh great. Was that you? And I went, yes. He went, okay, yeah, you are hired.   Anne: I love it. I love it.   Ian: I booked two characters. But he said, you might just, it's a real kind of bigging myself up, but you might be, he said, the best actor I've ever auditioned.   Anne: Awesome.   Ian: And I'm like, aww.   Anne: What a wonderful, what a wonderful compliment.   Ian: Oh. That is on my Instagram. If you check -- care to go.   Anne: Yeah. There you go. . So I love that.   Ian: Oh, and I know, what did I wanted to say about, you talked about casting directors. So Bianca Shuttling, who's one of the big casting directors in LA, she goes looking on Instagram. She's very open about that. If she's not got someone in her little pool of people where she goes, she gets -- she doesn't go to agents, she goes to Instagram.   Anne: Wow, there you go.   Ian: That's where she goes.   Anne: There you go. I love that.   Ian: There, you learnt it -- you heard it third or fourth here. .   Anne: So let me say, because I really think that there's that business savvy that you have, which, BOSSes out there, do not discount the value of being business savvy and marketing savvy. Because I think that that's gonna get you opportunities that otherwise you would not already have. But I do wanna address the acting part of it because you don't just get these roles over and over again if you're not a great actor. So what do you attribute your acting prowess? Have you, just because you've been doing it for years, have you been working with coaches or what do you attribute it to?   Ian: I owe it all to my mum.   Anne: Ah, okay. Well, there you go. , I'd like to thank my mom and my .   Ian: Well, yeah. But in this case, my mom was a very prolific community actress herself.   Anne: Got it.   Ian: So my first living memory is a smell, and it's not the smell of the grease pain. It's that kind of musty damp wood smell that you get backstage in an old theater. And I have the image that follows it, but -- and I must have been maybe around two or three years old. There's no words involved in this memory. So I basically grew up --   Anne: In the theater.   Ian: -- in the backstage. Yeah. One of those things. So it was happening all around me all the time. And I did try and become a proper professional actor as a young man, but I couldn't figure out how to earn money doing it . So.   Anne: Same thing when you start off doing voice acting, right? It's kind of hard sometimes. How do I even get money? How do I even get started? Yeah.   Ian: Yeah, yeah. It took me another 27 years of sales and management --   Anne: Well, there's your overnight success. Right? And I love telling that to people. They're like, you're so successful. Like, how did you do it? And people think it's overnight, but I think obviously you've evolved so nicely into your success, and it well, well deserved.   Ian: And now it pays two -- pays me and I hired -- my wife works for me now.   Anne: There you go.   Ian: So that Christmas present 10 years ago has employed both of us now.   Anne: Yeah. So that 10 year overnight success in voiceover, I mean actually, actually it was a little less than that.   Ian: Yeah, that's interesting. Because I got my first nomination, and I was --   Anne: In 2020, right?   Ian: -- 2019, I got nominated. I didn't win anything that year, but I thought I was ahead of the curve at that point. You know, and then it all went a bit quieter after that. But the last two years, so years nine and ten, or if you count it from 2014, years seven and eight, really have my career, iIt just looks entirely different now. And it is for the people out there, the BOSSes out there, you know, if you are three, four, and five years in and you're making your way, keep going. Because it is my view that in another two or three years, if you are booking regularly, suddenly something will click, something will change, and bam, away you go.   Anne: I was just gonna ask you what's your best advice? But I'll tell you what, that was a golden nugget of wisdom right there . I think so many people, they give up so quickly, and they get their demos, and they're like, well, why am I not working? And they get so frustrated and down and yeah.   Ian: Took me three months to get my first booking. I worked for three months for nothing.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ian, it has been such a wonderful pleasure having you in here.   Ian: Are we done?   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: Already?   Anne: Well, I, I can probably talk to you for another three hours, for sure. But I appreciate you coming and sharing your journey. I think ,BOSSes out there, you can learn a lot from this wonderful gentleman. And thank you so much for being here with us today.   Ian: You're very welcome, Anne. Anytime.   Anne: I'm gonna give a great big shout out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And then also I'd like to talk to you about 100 Voices Who Care. It's your chance to make a difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. All right, you guys, have an amazing week. Ian, thanks again, and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.   Ian: Bye-Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in!    Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya?    Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne?    Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios.    Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit.   Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right?   Gillian: Yeah, definitely.    Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs).   Gillian: I'm just a voice actor.    Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)?    Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room --   Anne: I know where you're going with this.    Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out --   Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes.   Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on.    Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer.    Gillian: I love to know.    Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no.    Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important.   Anne: I agree.    Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by --   Anne: Oh, fantastic.    Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice.    Anne: Absolutely.    Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet --   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body.    Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown.    I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole ‘nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it.  And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different.    So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible.    Gillian: Uncomfortable.    Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So (laughs) in terms of --   Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room.    Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to.    Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that --   Anne: On top of it.    Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what --   Anne: Oh, I was gonna say --   Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing.   Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in.    Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere.    Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. ‘Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole ‘nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't.    And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels.    And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording --   Gillian: Once we're in the studio that you've built and whatever says…   Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection.    Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody.   Anne: So true.    Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt.   Anne: It's an investment.   Gillian: It hurt a little bit.   Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested --   Gillian: Emotional pain.    Anne: — but it's an investment.    Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work?   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that's a worthy investment.    Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection.    And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more.   Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs)   Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here.    You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So.   Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like --   Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs)    Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree.    Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember?    Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy --   Anne: A microphone.   Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean --   Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that.   Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course.    Anne: I love it. I love it.    Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move.   Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am.   Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will.    Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun.    Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be?   And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products?   Gillian: I do. Yeah.    Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again…   Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough --   Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck.    Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but --   Anne: But it's an investment.    Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things.    Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right?    Gillian: No.    Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up.    Gillian: They're completely different.   Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that…   Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all.    Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there.    Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out.    But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important.    Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want.    And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make.    And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry.    Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way.    But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do.   Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional?    And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed.    Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business.    Anne: There you go.    Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were --   Anne: It made a difference, right?    Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world.    Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you?    Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it.    Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us.    Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely --   Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes.    Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not.    Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello.    For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really.    Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more --   Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next --   Gillian: Sorry, guys.   Anne: That's for our next episode.   Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's --   Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true.    Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing --   Anne: Anything you're doing.    Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice --   Anne: Who you are and your brand.    Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of.   Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about.   Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the --   Anne: It's not the microphone --   Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say.    Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones?   Gillian: I know.    Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.    Gillian: Bye.    Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To create a successful voiceover performance, authenticity is key. This can involve using props, physicalizing the script, and infusing in personal experiences to deliver a realistic & engaging read. Anne & Lau emphasize the importance of intention, nuance, and understanding the corporate story & mission. Just as a chef must gather and prepare ingredients before cooking a delicious meal, hard work and effort are necessary before reaping the rewards.Want to improve your performance? Try taking notes, emphasizing key words, and using aids like pictures & videos, and of course, tune into VO Boss! We'll guide you through it.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing special guest co-host, BOSS lady Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey, hey. Hey, Anne.    Anne: So Lau, I am very excited that it's early morning, and I have my coffee.    Lau: Me too. What would we do without it?    Anne: I know. So many people have contacted me and said, it sounds like you and I in the booth in our podcast are just sharing a cup of coffee and shooting, shooting the breeze, having a conversation,    Lau: High balling the water, which you gotta do in between the coffee.    Anne: That's right. That's right.    Lau: Just to wash the vocal folds out.    Anne: Let me share — there's my big old water bottle with the coffee.    Lau: And then I'm gonna show everyone, I think everyone already knows this about us. Watch this. We're gonna do this as well.    Anne: (laughs). I love your lipstick. Oh, so here's mine.    Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate!   Anne: Right? Wonder powers activate. So, yeah, my red. But you know what, guys? Maybe one of these days I'm gonna switch it up.    Lau: Hmm. Ooh, you should. You should.    Anne: Oh gosh.    Lau: Naked lips. Let's see what naked lips look like without the red. That would be fun.    Anne: I feel like I'm so pale. (laughs), but I feel like I'm so pale.    Lau: You are pale. But that's your beauty.    Anne: Pale without my lips. Well.   Lau: But you know what I just noticed, Anne? You know what I just noticed? Literally, I just observed this, that we just used like three props. Three props.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: In our world.    Anne: We totally did.    Lau: And we were talking all the way through that, as we always do. And we had no problem using the props, talking and connecting, getting our points across. And that suddenly just dawned on me, like, that's a part of our world in finding connection --    Anne: That's what we do.   Lau: — and authenticity with each other.    Anne: That's what we do in the booth. Interesting. So let's chat about this. Let's take this apart, because you know, I do this a lot when I'm trying to talk to students about being authentic and believable with the script. And I think what just throws the whole wrench into it is that we've got these words in front of us, and all of a sudden we don't know how to make them a part of us. And interestingly enough, like we just demonstrated, and BOSSes out there, you just heard it, even if you're not looking at us on YouTube, we were able to pick up objects and share ideas, and have a conversation, engage with one another, and not miss a beat. And we weren't even thinking about it. But what I want you guys to do is let's take a look at, a more in-depth look at this to kind of figure out how we can take what we do in real life and translate it into the booth to be believable and authentic. Right? Bring that real life into the booth.    Now, one thing, I think that was first and foremost, we talked about props, right? Ah, I always have my trusty lipstick or my cup of coffee, or probably most of you have one of these, a phone or even just a mouse (laughs). Like you must have something in your booth.    Lau: I mean, it's endless what we have really with us. And doesn't that make us feel comforted and taken care of? And we identify with that brush in a lot of ways. It's part of our life.    Anne: I'm bringing all my makeup out. I've even got jewelry in here, but (Lau laughs), in case I --   Lau: I think a man's gonna pop up all of a sudden. (laughs),    Anne: Gosh only knows I have tons of these, the headphones in there. So now, if you're trying to sound authentic and believable, one thing that we've covered multiple times in our podcast is there's not a perfect voice. Right? There's all sorts of imperfection in our voices, and a lot of that can translate -- I mean, not that — everybody has a beautiful, wonderful voice all on their own. You don't have to perform behind the mic, right? It just is beautiful when we're engaging. And so props can help us to bring that scene to life, right? I know I just had a really wonderful workshop with the amazing Ellen Dubin, and she was talking about video game acting, and all of it was about blocking, get up, move around, change your position. Do that, because that's gonna add that reality.    And I'm always telling people physicate behind the mic, because that's gonna make our vocals not perfect for some reason. If we sit silent and straight behind the booth, and we just read these words, hello everyone, and welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, and the BOSS Superpower series, right? So I'm just reading, but I'm not moving, that physical part of having a prop, having somebody to talk to 00 expressing, expressing with our bodies.    Lau: I love this. You know, you had me physicate. Like I have never heard anyone use that word. So I'm stuck on physicate. But yeah, I would love voice actors to take it a step farther and just Johnny Depp it out. Like take their script and go somewhere. Go to a store, go to a Starbucks, go to a library, go be in your car, and I want you to deliver that. Deliver the line as part of your universe.    Anne: What a great idea.    Lau: Yeah!   Anne: Yeah.    Lau: Right? Doesn't the booth at times sort of pen us and it becomes boxy to us in our minds where we can literally move it outside, move it, and see how it flows and works, and physicate in that environment. Like, if I'm ordering a drink or I'm getting food, or I'm sitting at a table, or I'm da da -- how would that line live within that universe versus only within the universe of the booth? I mean, ultimately, we can't do that on every script, but as part of your actor's work, it's well worth the time to do that so that you can bring that imagination back into the reality of your beliefs.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: And relive that, you know, relive those moments.    Anne: What I like is, even if, alright, let's say you've got a very dry corporate narration script, right? Maybe a company talking about their corporate responsibility, which may not be the most exciting stuff that you'll ever hear in the world. So for me, I'm always telling people, in order to kind of make it sound conversational, and it may not be written conversational at all, or authentically, or it's basically like here, this is stuff that you would typically read. You wouldn't necessarily say it out loud. You would typically just read it and then understand it as information that the company has provided to you. Take that script and put it into your own words. So you might have this long run-on line that's talking about corporate responsibility and all of these things about what we are doing to promote corporate responsibility in the workplace. And so take that, those words, and just put it into your own words.    And when you can take that sentence, which sometimes most of the time is a run-on sentence and formulate your own speech about it, or your own personal conversation about it to someone else, explain it to someone else, that's gonna give you the idea behind the melody and the point of view that you wanna take. And then all you do is, when you get in the booth, replace it with the words. But you have the intent, you have the point of view, you have the thought of, here, it's this idea, and then this idea, and then I'm gonna combine it with this idea. And then that's the finished sentence. So it's kind of allowing you to regroup the information that's presented in the sentence in a very structured way and creating it in your own authentic way.    Lau: That's right. And you have to think of your work like you're layering a cake. You have the cake; to some degree, you have the cake. Even if you're at the beginning of your career, you still have some sort of cake. It might be a demo, it might be a beginner level studio, whatever it is. But I have to layer that over time and make it more interesting. So for instance, if I were to take my pen, my trusty prop, and talk about my corporate responsibility script, I might take a note on that. Because if I'm working in corporate, I'd be writing down minutes, I'd be taking notes as I went. And that puts me in a mindset, a frame. It gives me a framework to work by that when I'm corporate -- and this is just my choice, it's not the right choice, it's just my choice — when I'm corporate, I always tend to write a few notes. I tend to take a moment to write things down. That changes my sound, it changes my pace, it changes everything.    Anne: So that physical action of writing something down — also, the fact is, is what would you write down? Right? If you had that big, long run on sentence, right? What are the notes that you would take? Right? Typically, those notes are the most important parts of the sentence, right? Those are the notes that you as an actor want to probably linger on a little longer. So when we talk about being authentic, and Lau, and I, when we're speaking, our pacing isn't the same. Sometimes I, I pause, like I just did, and sometimes my words are longer. And usually the ones that are are longer the ones I want her to hear more. And so when you're creating those notes, right, you're creating, this is an important point that I wanna express to someone. So that word can be a little bit longer than maybe the word the (laughs) or the word at the beginning. At the, at the, or just tiny little words that connect. Beginning is an important word. So at the beginning, notice how at the becomes almost like a, I don't know, a 16th note in melody if I was speaking vocally, but in the beginning, beginning is an important word, so I'm gonna linger on that.    Lau: We can emphasize, you need to linger on that, right? If every word is the same, and every word is important, nothing's important. (laughs).   Anne: Right? It sounds monotonous and robotic.    Lau: Like what's important if every word is important, right?    Anne: Right.    Lau: But if I take that pen -- and to me this is a corporate moment or a business moment, or whatever you wanna call it-- I think maybe I'm gonna do bullets, how I would do in my life. I'd take a sentence, I'd take a thought, and I'd pull a word or two out of it that are my emphasis words, my bullets, and do like little bullets. and say, wow, out of that sentence, I got coffee. That was the word of the day for me, coffee as a bullet. So that when I go back and I review that for my speaking, I can remember, I can mark that coffee, that the word coffee or the name of the coffee is really an emphasis for me.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Lau: This helps me with that. Like, because then I'm gonna say coffee, like Starbucks coffee.    Anne: Right.    Lau: And I'm gonna use this.    Anne: And the other thing too that I think is super important to remember is that we talked about you taking the script and going out into the real world with it, right, and start practicing with it and playing off of maybe someone else. Notice how you said, well, let's play off of someone else. I mean, when we started this podcast, you and I were talking to one another. We were engaging with one another.    Lau: Yep.    Anne: Well, when we're sitting here in our studios behind the mic with a script, you cannot be alone (laughs) just saying. In your head, you must be the person that is speaking. And you must also have your imaginary friend that you are speaking to. And so you want to make sure that you are engaging with that audience member or that listener. And so you must talk to them, and they will have reactions for you or questions or comments. Right? And you cannot just start talking to them like, oh gosh, have you ever had a friend, Lau, that you can't get a word on edgewise? Like, and it's basically all about yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, ya. It's all about them. Right? All about their monologue.    And so when you're behind the mic, don't let it be all about your monologue. Let it be about you engaging with your listener and allowing that listener a beat to acknowledge, to respond, to have a question, whatever that is. And I'm not talking about you have to time things, but that's an imaginary beat where I've said something, and now Lau, I'm looking for you to respond, right? You just shook your head, right? You just went, mm-hmm. So that's where I think we need to also invite that into our script, right? And invite that real life into our script.    Lau: You have to do it. It's so important. And have cheaters if you have trouble reaching that at times. Like in our daily life, we're not always great conversationalists, or we're not always in the mood for a talk or whatever. So you have to have those cheaters, whether you're talking to your kid or your dog, or a photo or a video or something that stimulates you into thinking, this is part of my daily experience. This is part of a reality of my life that I can connect to right now, that I can make real. Because I may not be in the mood or in the mindset every single day to connect to that particular audition or to connect to that particular product.    Anne: What I love is like literally like now that I've sat here, and I'm taking notice and, and BOSSes out there, really, let's watch the YouTube video on this, because I was just watching you, Lau, and everything you said, you had your hands, everything you said, and I was responding. I was shaking my head, I was going, mm-hmm. So that's the parts that you have to play in your script. And believe it or not, even in a mundane medical narration script or in a telephone prompt, believe it or not -- I'm always imagining, here I am and I'm talking to the listener and they've got their thoughts about me (laughs). Because maybe they don't wanna listen to an automated attendant. Maybe they're angry, maybe they're frustrated. But yet I will still talk to them with a tone where I'm like, I know you're frustrated. I know that you don't wanna listen to my voice, but let me help you. Okay? And so that point of view, that intention — all of a sudden, I'm speaking about intentions so much lately -- I think that intention, before you even approach voicing or opening your mouth, I think your intention is so very important.    Lau: So very important. And you know, in the script, in this context, it would be an actor's intention because you're in a false reality. You're not in your real reality; you're in this technical reality.    Anne: Sure.    Lau: But then you have intentions or purpose, or whatever you call it in your daily life and thinking about, wow, how much do I care about things? How much do I connect? How much do I try to make action happen and go well? Well, I have to bring that intention into the booth. I have to bring that into the booth. And I think if we were honest, we would say, in our daily life, half the stuff we do is crap. It's like chores. It's like, I have to go to the dump because I have --   Anne: I don't want to go to the dump.   Lau: -- bring my trash. Right? (Anne laughs). But how do I have a joyous life still being able to go to the dump? Well, I keep the intention alive that it's not about me hating to go to the dump. It's about me wanting to have a clean and wonderful household.    Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.    Lau: That's really what it is. So it's the same with the script. if I have a disdain or I have a dislike for the delivery or for the language, or for the content --   Anne: Or the message, maybe. Right? Yeah.    Lau: — then I'm skirting the intent. What's the intent? Oh, the intent is to get you to understand how this new product worked, or, or how the new program is gonna help your lifestyle. That's really what it is. It's like a, in acting, we call this the super intention, the super objective.    Anne: Maybe this is the wrong way to phrase it, but I think intention can change throughout the script. So you don't come at the script in the first couple of sentences with a particular intention and it stays that same intention. Because a lot of times, right, we're there to tell a story. And so intention point of view changes along with the storyline. And if you're not necessarily reading that, right, or understanding that, then you're not doing a good job at telling the story. Lau, at the beginning when we were talking about coffee, I was like, oh, thank God, coffee. I was, was that sense of relief. And then we started talking about, well, my lipstick, I get excited, right?    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So I have a different, and it may not be an extreme change in my emotion, but I talked about my lipstick. I'm like, it made me smile. Right? And so that was a different intention. And as we flowed with the conversation, our point of view changed. Our intention changed to help us to go along and flow with the storyline.    Lau: Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you BOSSes listening in can have fun, you know, treat it like a board game, have fun with your actor friend, or your accountability buddy, or even with your husband — have fun and take a few minutes and say, okay, what are all the things I'm using in my world here that can be helpful to the delivery of the read? But, oh, wait a second. What's the intention? What's the intention of this? Why do I take a moment and put this on? There's a reason for it, there's a purpose for it, whatever that is. Why do I pick up my water bottle and drink it? Sure, it makes me feel good and it's delicious. But the intention is what, to hydrate.    Anne: To be healthy.    Lau: To to be healthy, right? Why do I drink my coffee cup if I'm delivering a script, right? It's not just for Anne to see that I'm drinking coffee. It's for me to feel energized, to feel warm, to feel connected. Coffee's a big psychological connector for a lot of people. Right?    Anne: And notice all of the emotions that go along with that. I mean, that is something to really think about. I think that, you know, I'm always telling my students that there's a purpose for every word. Even if you don't agree with all of the words that are there, there's a purpose for them being on the paper. Somebody somewhere at some point thought about what they wanted to communicate, and all of those words have meaning. So to just read through them as if they didn't have meaning or any point of view, I think is a disservice. It's a disservice to the copy. It's a disservice to the story that you're telling. And so, no matter how nuanced it is, right? You don't have to be like, oh my God, I'm so happy! And then, oh, I'm very, very -- you know, it doesn't have to be that to be dramatic. Nothing has to be dramatic. As a matter of fact, the more nuanced you are, I think, the more you, you can really connect. And the people that are listening, they'll get that. And sometimes I feel like nuances mean more. I really believe that.   Lau: Nuances are life.    Anne: Yeah, exactly.    Lau: Right?   Anne: And it can really, really have meaning. And so I say look for the meaning in the point of view. And the point of view to me is synonymous with bringing yourself to the copy. Bringing an emotion to the copy that is reflective of how you feel the company would like to bring that emotion out to the potential client.    Lau: Anne, hold on one second. Hold on. I'm coughing. (laughs).    Anne: All right, no problem.    Lau: I love nuances though. I wanna say something about that. My intention (laughs).    Anne: Now see, there's a real world moment there where Lau is actually having a little bit of a coughing spell and(laughs), see, and I've reacted to it. Show a little bit of concern.   Lau: I don't mind if you show that too, Anne; I don't mind if you keep that in, because the intention sometimes changes with the same item. So we don't have to stay static on our intentions, is exactly what you saying. The nuance of being hydrated is important. We do it and we know it's important. But see how my intention changed? I had to get myself out of the coughing fit by dealing with the vocal folds quickly so that I could continue the conversation. So it deepened, the stakes got higher. It became much more important that I drank the water.    Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.    Lau: So the prop in itself changes. It changes, the intention gets deeper. You change it. You have the power, you have the superpower to take your environment and have it utilize it in your favor to solve your problem or to fill your need.    Anne: And I think also -- so it goes beyond just like a surface — here are some words on a piece of paper. Let me read them and let me try to figure out what this company is saying. Like what we've done is we've actually brought in so many components of our real world experiences to help us to tell this story better. And I think it warrants, BOSSes, it warrants a little bit of time from you before you run in your studio and do your audition. I say this all the time, I feel like there's this, I don't know, a long time ago, there was like, somebody said, you must do this many auditions in a day. And all of a sudden we become like, I must get 60 auditions out a day in order to be successful in voiceover.    And in reality, like getting 60 auditions out a day probably does nothing for your performance in terms of, if you're just so intent on rushing through them, and you're not thinking about what's the story? How am I going to bring this to life? And I believe it takes a few minutes of your time -- not a ton. You don't have to spend hours breaking apart a script. But you do need to spend a few minutes really kind of reading, rereading, trying to find out what is the true message. And again, I'm always saying, sometimes we will get auditions, and I'll be like, I have no idea what this is even talking about. Now when that happens, that means that Anne has to look at the script again and again, and really try to read those words. Do my Google, Anne GanGoogle, do my Google to find out what I can, if the product is listed or the company is listed, or even any phrase that seems like it might be a tagline, Google it. God, we are so lucky, right, to have that?   Lau: So lucky.    Anne: And to just try to understand what is the story? Because again, somebody was paid probably a good deal of money to sit down and write that story. And you just may not be privy to what product it is or what company it is. But you have to understand what that story is. And I think a lot of times, it's probably purposely vague because they wanna see who the actors are. (laughs). They wanna see who can bring those words alive and tell the story. And that requires our imagination. And every time I ask somebody to think about corporate and what's your moment before when you're gonna do this corporate responsibility -- everybody's like, what? Like, what do you mean? What's my moment before? Why would I ever say this?    And you really must, because to somebody at that company, it's their heart. Like they're responsible, like their corporate responsibility is, this is their purpose. This is something probably that came very deep within, or I wanna say this, I mean, unless you're an evil company, right? I mean, but (laughs) for most companies, like my company mission, my company purpose, come from a very deep, deep within my soul because I formed that company because I believe that I had a product that would help someone. And that's what I like to believe about all corporate scripts. And that helps me, by the way, to get into a purposeful and positive mind frame, to be able to voice just about any corporate script. Because that's how I, I assume every founder or owner of a company must feel at some point like, I'm gonna form this company 'cause I have this great idea. This is gonna help people. And yeah, of course, maybe I can make some money too off of it. But I like to always consider the heart mission of a company or a product that.   Lau: Love that. Because it's so easy to flatten out and just perfunctory-ize -- I think I just made up a new word. Perfunctory-ize, meaning just not come with any sense of joy, energy or imagination to something that you don't care about or you don't know about. But to understand, and this is to me the true empathy factor of nuance. Like to me, the more nuanced person -- like you're a tremendously nuanced person because you have a depth of understanding and knowledge and empathy --   Anne: Empathy is huge.    Lau: — and what someone else is going through and living through.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And you don't have to necessarily know or have experienced it yourself. You just have the knowledge and the history behind you to know it is a truth. It is their truth. And so I have to take a little bit of time to find intention to represent their truth. And that's nuance right there.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. If somebody asked me what's the most important component as a voice actor that you can have? Or what's the most important thing to think about as a voice actor to be authentic and believable and real when you're voicing a script? I would say empathy. And empathy toward your listener. Who is your listener? What are their joys? What are their pains? How can you help them? And how can what you're saying make them feel better, look better, I don't know, make more money, make them healthier — whatever it is, come from a place of service?I just really believe that empathy is the one word that everybody should just have in their back pocket for a great read.    Lau: Well, the more you give the more you do get. And sometimes the get is really like this inner true feeling, whatever that feeling is, that you then connect to the experience. And so you can bring that back to the experience. And so that's why I believe, you know, as actors and as vocal actors, we get addicted to the work, because we get addicted to the feeling of that authentic getting back. So the more we give, the more we potentially can get back. But we have to give true and authentic intention. And if we don't, then it's flat and it's kind of boring, and we fizzle out quickly; we get exhausted.    Anne: Sure, sure.    Lau: It's actually depleting.    Anne: And I think, you know how I can always tell I have, I have a really great read is when I feel it. When I feel it.   Lau: When you feel it. Right.    Anne: But I feel it.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Because sometimes things just happen and it's just like, I don't know how that happened, but it just did.    Lau: It just did.    Anne: It was amazing. Right?   Lau: That's the magic.    Anne: That's the magic. And I wish that I had that for every single read that I do. And I think that as an actor is what I try to achieve, right --   Lau: Yeah.    Anne: — is the feel it felt right. It felt good, it felt authentic and it felt believable. So I always try to tell people to just feel and not listen. And it's so hard to not listen because I think from a very young age, when I got behind the mic and all of a sudden my voice was amplified from that mic, right? Then I felt like, ooh, now I have to sound even better. And interestingly enough, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for just the you that is amplified louder by a device that sits in front of you on a day-to-day basis. We're really just looking to connect with you.    Lau: That's right. And I, I would say be careful of chasing the high. 'Cause a lot of people come in and whether it's the money or the feeling of excitement or whatever — don't get addicted to chasing the high or the dopamine kick. Just know it will be there at times for you. But you gotta like -- think of my analogy of like, you gotta take the trash to the dump. There's a lot of work, there's a lot of groundwork that happens in order for you to come back to the clean home and go, ooh, smells fresh. And I'm feeling good. So you can't get one without the other. You can't get the reward without the real work put in.    Anne: Absolutely. What a great analogy, Lau. Like honestly, like we could just, just all go home now. Like take it to the dump (Lau laughs). BOSSes, take it to the dump, then come back.   Lau: Take it to the dump.   Anne: Take it to the dump and come back refreshed. I love it. Lau, what a really cool discussion. Thank you so much.    Lau: My pleasure.    Anne: BOSSes as individuals, you know, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but of course we've been talking with Lau today and how we can make an impact. Well, if you ever wished that you could make more of an impact with your communities in ways that you never before thought possible, find out at 100voiceswhocare.org. And thank you so much to ipDTL that allows Lau and I to connect and have these amazing conversations. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

If you're new to the voice over industry, there's a lot to learn. Luckily there are plenty of resources out there that can help you get your bearings and start building your career. Anne is joined by special guest Tracy Lindley, a voice actor & expert on utilizing LinkedIn as a marketing tool for voice actors. On LinkedIn, it's all about relationships—and not just with other actors. Remember to focus on fostering genuine connections and optimizing your online presence to attract potential clients. With persistence and the right strategies, you'll be well on your way to establishing a thriving career in voice acting. Stay engaged, keep learning, and watch your network—and opportunities—grow.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring very special guest, Tracy Lindley to the podcast. Hey Tracy.   Tracy: Hey Ann. How's it going?   Anne: It's going great. So a little bit about Tracy. Tracy's been a full-time voice actor since 2014 -- we are kind of twinsies on that one -- and regularly voices projects for clients like Hewitt Packard, Realtor.com, iHeartRadio, Health.com, and many others. She is a well known expert in the field of LinkedIn and finding clients and is also a mom to four kids, ages 7 to 13, who also do voiceover. And she lives in the Midwest area where it's very cold right now.   Tracy: Yes, I'm bundled up in a sweater.   Anne: Well, Tracy, I am so excited to finally have you here on the show. I feel like we're like ships that pass in the night because I've been following you for such a long time, and I've seen you at conferences, but we've just kind of like passed each other by.   Tracy: I bet I've been following you for longer because I remember when I was first starting out, you had a great interview on VO Buzz Weekly that I watched.   Anne: Oh, I remember that. Yeah.   Tracy: Yes. It was a wonderful two-part interview and I learned so much, and I was like, man, she is just dropping truth bombs on here.   Anne: Well, thank you that I'm very honored about that. My goodness. But you, I mean, my gosh, you are just blazing this path to the stars with your career, and really in the last couple of years, you are absolutely the known person outside of being great in voiceover and talented, but also all about marketing and LinkedIn. And so I'm excited to talk to you about that today, because I was much more involved in LinkedIn a few years back. And then my business kind of, I have separate paths. Now, I'm not as able to keep up as much as I'd like on LinkedIn, so I'm getting ready to learn a whole lot, and BOSSes, I think you're gonna learn a whole lot from this wonderful, wonderful talent here. So let's get going. Before we talk about LinkedIn, tell us a little bit about your journey into voiceover.   Tracy: Well, it started out with me just hanging out, washing dishes in my kitchen, listening to VO Buzz Weekly and other great podcasts like VO BOSS, which is on the resource page that I have on my website to recommend to other talent that are learning.   Anne: Thank you.   Tracy: Because you are always giving us value and you have since the very beginning, and I've learned so much from you. You are a wiz at marketing yourself and a great person just relationally. You know how to connect the dots and how to communicate very well.   Anne: Well, thank you for that.   Tracy: Oh, well you're welcome. I mean, part of the fun of being on podcasts is getting to tell people how much I enjoy them personally because I'm very relational myself, and I think think that if someone was just starting out in the industry, I feel like the best way to get started is to research. And that's what I tell everybody. Research, research, research. Read the articles, listen to the podcasts, watch the vlogs. Do all of those things. And there are some great paid courses too. I recommend all of that stuff because you can't just learn in bits and pieces so much. Sometimes you need to kind of put it all together, and we all connect those dots as we're going along in our journey. But I can't remember now what your original question is. Oh my. My journey.   Anne: Your journey. Yes. Your journey. Because you've been doing this a long time. I think we started around the same time actually, and I was working part-time for a little bit before I went into it full-time. Were you always in it full-time or did you?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay. So you started part-time.   Tracy: I was a claims adjuster for an auto insurance company. And I know you were, from your story, you were working on installing telephone systems, right?   Anne: Yep, absolutely.   Tracy: And that's how you got your start was hey, they needed a voice to be on the systems. And for me, I have a communication degree, and when I was in college, I had an internship at a cable company and one day the producer just handed me a piece of paper and was like, hey, you have a nice voice. Will you read this? I'm like, okay, sure. . So I read it, I get in there, it's no more than a small closet with foam in it in a microphone, right? So it's nothing fancy. So I go in there and I read it, and I just found that I have this natural sense of timing. I knew what 30 seconds should be. And that goes back even further to me just reading out loud to kids at the library when I was like 12, 13, 14.   I just volunteered my time, and I was always like the babysitter that everybody wanted to come and hang out with their kids. So I have read to kids out loud several years of my life and still love reading out loud to my own kids. Reading out loud is such a skill that we don't realize we need to develop. Because when we're reading a book, you know, we're not gonna typically read out loud to ourselves. So sometimes it feels weird and it feels strange, but that's one of the best skills that we can learn when we're getting into into the industry.   Anne: Oh yeah. That's like cold reading skills right there. And I remember myself as a youngster, I would always be that person that would raise the hand -- who wants to read out loud for the class?   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: Me. And I wrote books too when I was really young. When I was in kindergarten, I learned to write, and I started to write books and I read them to the first graders, and it was all about Nibbles the Bunny. But I think that maybe that was so long ago though.   Tracy: Okay. I feel like --   Anne: That was like my start .   Tracy: -- we have got to publish these books. The world needs to see Nibbles the Bunny.   Anne: I'm telling you --   Tracy: Have you considered that?   Anne: ? I wish. I wish that I had a picture of it or a record of what it was that I wrote, but I vividly remember drawing the bunny. I illustrated too. And then I wrote the books, and I was so proud to read them, and all of my career, and I know yours too, I think a lot of voice actors when they get into it, they're good cold readers, or they've always been like excited to read or perform in front of an audience. And it's wonderful for your cold reading skills. And then I think what happens is, as we really get into the acting of voiceover, then it becomes something where you don't wanna use that as a crutch. You wanna use it to get yourself to quickly get into the story, but then you need to act. And then if you're reading too much and then it's gonna sound like you're reading too much, but I digress. But I think it's a wonderful skill that everybody needs in order to just, you know, be quick on their feet. Once you get those script changes that come in like at the last minute, you've gotta be able to do a quick cold read and understand and comprehend that story so that you can then tell it back while you're voicing it.   Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to have that -- that child doesn't have those inhibitions that we do as adults. So I feel like if we could just tap into our inner child, we wouldn't be scared of it, you know, because we can all get performance anxiety, especially the more and more and more people come into the room to listen to us perform, it just becomes so scary. So it really all comes down to just reading out loud, having fun with it, telling a story. That's what we're here for.   Anne: Absolutely. Now this is a little earlier than I was gonna get into it, but you're a mom of four kids, so big family. I'm also one of four in the family. Actually through the pandemic I became one of six and that's just a whole 'notherpodcast where I found out I had a brother and a sister, which is a wonderful thing. But I loved being a family where we're close in age. Tell me about your family, 'cause they're also doing voiceover, and I love how you just talked about how we need to be kids, we need to feel uninhibited. And so do you work with your kids and then also learn from them as well or be reminded of that as well?   Tracy: Oh gosh, I'm always learning lessons from them. And a lot of those lessons involve being patient and being a good communicator, breaking down what I need from you and saying it nicely. .   Anne: Oh yeah. And hey, that works in marketing too, right? .   Tracy: Yeah, that's true. I mean direct communication, but doing it kindly is I think a big key to marketing effectively.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: But my kids are always teaching me stuff. Like last night, my daughter, she's nine, she's the middle daughter'cause I have a son and then three girls.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: So the middle daughter is right in that sweet spot. You see a lot of auditions that come through 8 to 10, 8 to 10. So she's right there. She's also recently started taking vocal lessons. They do coach as well. Martha Khan is an excellent teacher for kids. Love her, my kids love her. But my daughters, all four of the kids actually take piano lessons, so --   Anne: I did too.   Tracy: Oh yes. It's great. We need that musicality.   Anne: It's so wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And I use that musicality when I coach as well because there's a melody to conversation. There's a melody in which most people are trying to achieve that natural, conversational, authentic, and there's a melody to it, believe it or not, if you break it down, so.   Tracy: Were you a vocalist as well? Or are you still?   Anne: Yeah, I mean I don't sing professionally, but you know, I sing in the shower, but for the longest time I was in choir for all four years of high school and went to the all-states and the all-counties and absolutely. I still love, love to sing. And it is something that, and playing piano, understanding where your notes are and being able to read music, it greatly helped breaking down the performance of a conversation. And so yeah. It's the basis of how I teach a lot actually. 'cause there's a lot of people who are musical that come into this industry. So piano's wonderful.   Tracy: Yeah, they really have an advantage. I took lessons, uh, piano lessons for seven years as well. And I definitely see a lot of legato, staccato.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: Those are pretty big themes in what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Tracy: And also understanding how to translate what the client is saying. I actually see sort of musically in my head.   Anne: Oh yeah, there's a rhythm. There's definitely a rhythm to it and a beat. And also the emotional part of it too, right, the emotion that gets put into it and the passion that gets put into it. Words are notes and really it's phrasing is very similar, right? We don't breathe in the middle of our phrases when we talk. It's not like I'm going to talk to you like this. You know, , it's, yeah. There's just a whole composition to it and, and I believe in my demo production too, it's a storyline from beginning to end. So it's amazing how much music plays into, at least how I identify and can work within voiceover and also coach it.   Tracy: Yes. Imagination too. We've got to again tap into that inner child where we're able to let ourselves go into the story and become the character.   Anne: Oh yes.   Tracy: My daughter and I both have -- my older daughter, my 11-year-old, she loves like fairy tales, princess stories, anything that involves, you know, that kind of fantasy world. And right now I cannot get her nose out of this book that she's reading. It's the Ella Enchanted author. I can't remember -- her last name is Levine. Anyway, caught her reading by the light of the nightlight last night when she's supposed to be sleeping. But that kind of joy for the story Yeah. Is what we need as adults. And that's another thing that I was talking to my daughter last night with the auditions is that --'cause they needed her to do some giggles. And sometimes it's hard to get kids to laugh on command, and I'll tickle 'emand I'll do whatever I need to, but I'm just like, pretend you're having fun with your friends. I want you to think about the best day. I want you to think about when you do your gymnastics and you just, you love life and let it bubble up and come out of you. So she's still working on that. She's a little nervous in front of the mic still. But it's all part of the journey. So I do learn a ton from my kids. That's a great question that I don't think everyone's ever really asked me before.   Anne: Oh, and you know what's so funny is that when I was teaching, of course I worked in high school, I learned so much, probably more from the kids than they might've learned from me. I mean, my hope was to inspire and motivate them, but boy did I learn a whole lot from them. It's why I coach today because I really feel that give and take, and I can completely understand when you're working with your children. Like it's such a wonderful give and take when you're experiencing that together, and you're learning together and you're guiding her and hopefully getting her super excited to just excel at voiceover, and so great for you. Now how do you find the time? There's the, the question probably everybody asks you, because I was part of a four child family and I know how busy my mom was. She was constantly carting me everywhere to my piano lessons or whatever that was. I also rode horses, but it was a crazy busy time for my mom. So how do you do it all?   Tracy: I just really think time management's important, but also just understanding boundaries. I have worked for many years without my kids being away and with having really limited childcare hours. Because I love my kids and I want to spend time with them. So everything I teach, I say do it in the cracks of life. There's always little windows and bits, and if you can take that, you can actually concentrate it and do more in that time. I've found that since my kids, all four of them, are in school full-time, I have to really reign myself in and plan my day more consecutively to where I'm using it more effectively. Because when I just had two hours and a day to work during nap time, boy, I really hustled. And I really focused on marketing on LinkedIn. That was the thing that I needed to do. I have not enjoyed endless auditioning. That's not something that really floats my boat. I don't love it.   Anne: I don't either.   Tracy: I do auditions. Yeah. And actually, actually I joined Bodalgo.   Anne: Did I say that? Yeah. Don't either.   Tracy: We have to do what we have to do.   Anne: I know.   Tracy: But I don't hardly audition on Voice123 because there's just so many and there's so many people. But I do love of course agents, I will audition everything that I feel is appropriate --   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Tracy: -- for my -- absolutely. So agents, current clients that maybe they need three choices to send to their end person. Yeah. Or some of the different production houses that I'm part of, they'll need auditions and Bodalgo. But really that's it. Most of the time it's directly communicating with the client 'cause that is where I really enjoy.   Anne: Yeah, I love that. And you know, that's so interesting 'cause I feel that we're kind of like soul sisters in that area because right now, the way that I have -- I'm doing a lot of things. I mean, I'm doing this podcast, I'm doing a VO Peeps group and I also coach and I do voiceover, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to auditioning. And so for me it was more about the direct marketing. One of the things that I developed because I didn't have a ton of time, was the BOSS Blast, which was a direct marketing to a list. And that makes total sense that for you, you would go and use LinkedIn or use whatever social platform that worked for you to get those jobs directly because that kind of bypasses a lot of times the need for an audition.   And also I, I would imagine, I'm gonna talk to you about that, like what search engine optimization has to do in LinkedIn that helps you get found, and people maybe reach out to you, and then if they hear your demo or you've got samples up there, I would imagine that then they just say, have an inquiry and say how much would it cost to do this? And for me that's the time saver where I don't have to audition. And it's not that I won't audition, but it's just that I don't have a ton of time. So I had to get more efficient at my marketing. So then let's talk about LinkedIn. Now, why LinkedIn, first of all for you and not some other social platform?   Tracy: Well, I mean the other ones are fun, but when people think about business, they think about LinkedIn. It is the number one most widely used business social media platform. So naturally that's where I was gonna go because I'm not interested in getting followers and being popular online. I'm just here to build those business relationships and grow my business. And I did it. I mean, I would market to as many people as I could. My goal was 20 people per day, new people that I would reach out to. As a young person in my career as a young mom of little kids, I knew my time was limited, so that's where I focused. I said I'm gonna market to 20 people per day. And I kept like a little, just a paper, like a written, handwritten notebook where I would write down names and dates, and then I would, you know, make a note back if someone contacted me back.   But it was just a visual tool to show me that I had actually accomplished something that day. And now I have a resource in my LinkedIn marketing course, the VO Edge, that's called Five Daily Reach Outs. Because 20 is a lot, and I realize that's a lot. So, but five, anybody can do five. And that's why over the years I've learned from people like you, people like Natasha Marcheska, people that know how to break a big task into little tasks. If you do that, you can accomplish so much more because you're not gonna get discouraged. And to have a plan. I guarantee that you don't wake up wondering, I wonder what I'm gonna do today. You know what you're doing because you are super organized.   Anne: Well, I think you have to be, right? And especially for us to be successful and to continue to grow in our businesses. I mean we have to be, because we've got a lot of things that we're doing. I mean, you're a mom of four, you're a voice talent, you're running a online -- is it an online course and is it live as well?   Tracy: No, it's just online.   Anne: That's a lot -- okay.   Tracy: It's online only. And I did that to save myself time. I really put a lot of thought into planning out the different modules and lessons and I tightly edited them so there's no wasted time because I don't like my time to be wasted. And I didn't wanna do that to anybody else. So it's about two hours of content overall. And I also do like a little introductory pump up video to kind of get people excited and motivated to do that module and that lesson. But yeah, it's totally, anybody can do it in their own time. It's on demand, and you can go revisit it anytime. It's all videos and there's some downloads too.   Anne: And I imagine 'cause creating curriculum, of course being an educator, right, for the longest time, I mean, it takes time to create good content. So for you to keep that up to date and keep that as a successful online course, congratulations. First of all, I know how much time that takes and how much effort it takes to get really good content and a really good course online that people can really get value out of. Now do you do any special coaching? I'm sure people are coming up to you and go, please, can you just help me with my profile, or do you do any type of individual coaching as well?   Tracy: Yeah. I'll do one-on-one and so I'll do like a private consulting session for an hour, and we'll go over, typically we'll start with the profile. And I always ask, Hey, please send me any questions in advance, the things you really wanna know because I'm not gonna waste your time and we're gonna go quickly during this hour.   Anne: Good.   Tracy: But I don't do a ton of that because the course is so comprehensive that most people get their questions answered through that.   Anne: Awesome.   Tracy: And I really do direct them towards the course because then it doesn't take up my time.   Anne: Right.   Tracy: But I love working with people as you know, it's so much more fun to get to know people individually during that hour. So I mean, I made a friend by the end of the hour and I love that.   Anne: Yeah. It is. The only thing is, is that as you keep trying to -- and for me, I'm, I'm very business minded, right? And for me, if I'm not growing then I'm stagnating and that's not necessarily where I wanna be. And so personally in my business, I'm always looking to grow in one way or another. And so every week, every month, every year, I'm looking at how can I grow my business? And so your personal time is probably the most precious time that you have. And so for example, I can't coach any more people. I cannot do any more one-on-ones because I'm one person, and I simply don't have the hours in the day to do everything that I wanna do. So it is important to be efficient. So let's talk a little bit more about the LinkedIn. You're using the free version of LinkedIn, right?   Tracy: Right. I've never done the premium.   Anne: Okay. You've never even tried it?   Tracy: No.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: It's just so robust, I don't need it.   Anne: Okay.   Tracy: You do get limited on the number of connections, but what I've taught people is that you can put your searches in and then bookmark it. And that way you can just keep going back to that page, and it doesn't keep ding you for additional searches.   Anne: Oh, got it.   Tracy: So that's a big secret that a lot of people.   Anne: We can go home now. That's it. That's a . That's it. That's the nugget.   Tracy: But I mean, what you mentioned earlier about optimizing the SEO, so let's talk about that.   Anne: Yes.   Tracy: That is one of the key things. And you're great at that on your website. I know that.   Anne: Oh, thank you.   Tracy: Well, you come from a tech --   Anne: It's lot of work. Yeah.   Tracy: -- background. Yes. Yes. And it's additional content.   Anne: But it's worthy.   Tracy: Yes.   Anne: It's definitely worth it to spend the time on the content because it brings people to your site. And I imagine people on LinkedIn searching for voiceover talent, like you want them to reach your profile.   Tracy: Right.   Anne: So yeah, let's talk about what do you do to enhance your SEO for that?   Tracy: Well, so there are three steps in what I teach with LinkedIn. And the first step is optimizing your profile. So that's where you must start. Do not start reaching out to people if you haven't completely shined up your profile and made it the best it can be. So obviously that would be the base step in step one. So step one involves just putting yourself forward authentically. One of the things that I really harp on is how there's so much inauthentic, spammy marketing, and you can stand out by being authentic.   I consider my life messy. People know that I have four kids and I don't hide it. I put all over my Instagram, I just posted one recently about going Christmas shopping with the kids, and it was just, I did not wanna go. It starts off with me making a face, you know, like I don't wanna do this. And I used like the circus theme because sometimes that's how I feel like I live in a circus. So I allow people to get a glimpse into my messiness. And I feel like that's actually been a boost to my brand, because I'm relatable and we all have messes. So why pretend to be perfect? So when you create your profile, though, you are your most businessy self on LinkedIn. So I'm not nearly as messy there. I will be all kinds of messy on Instagram and Facebook. But here on LinkedIn we're a little bit more put together. We wanna make sure that people know we can handle the work. We're not gonna flake, we're dependable. So key words that emphasize those kinds of business ethics are key.   And also speaking from a one-on-one perspective, don't make it sound like, Tracy Lindley is a full-time voice actor, that kind of thing. You wanna say I am. So you're speaking to the first person. I tell people to look at it as if you were at a networking event and you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, what do you do? So you've got a big picture back here where you're giving an overall view of who you are, 'cause they asked, and if they're visiting your profile, that's kind of like asking what do you do? Let me get to know you a bit. And then when you get down to the experience section about being a voice talent, then that's when you get into more of the nitty gritty like clients, agents, those kinds of things.   Anne: Do you put examples and demos on there as well in your profile?   Tracy: Oh yeah. That's key.   Anne: Media?   Tracy: I mean, why would you wanna hire somebody that doesn't have any examples at all of their work?   Anne: Right.   Tracy: And don't make 'em go looking on your website. That wastes their time. Everything that we do needs to be client-centered, and it wastes the client's time to take them to your website or some other source. You should put it right there on LinkedIn. Put all your best examples. And a lot of times people are starting out brand new. Like if you've coached someone and they've just created a demo, and they have no body of work, they can take that demo that you've created with them and turn it into a video and display that on LinkedIn.   Anne: Videos are effective.   Tracy: Yes. And you can't really do an MP3 on LinkedIn. You have to do some sort of video. So sometimes people do SoundCloud, but I don't find that very effective 'cause it's just a static picture. And I think even a very simple video is fine. Some people do make it look like all these clips of commercials, which is really cool, but it's also costly. And if people are bootstrapping their business at the beginning, it's really easy to create a very simple video with your picture and just a few things, contact information on the back. Contact information is huge because that's our call to action is contact me.   Anne: What about your feed on LinkedIn? Are you posting to the feed on LinkedIn? Are you creating content? Because I know a big thing, gosh, a couple years ago when I was looking back into it was creating content and posts like short blog posts in LinkedIn. Is that still, is that effective? Is that, what are your thoughts on that?   Tracy: You know, video's really taken over. Blogs are still fantastic and also they can link back to your website, which boosts your SEO, but really video is king right now, and those are the things that are gonna get the most engagement. But you can't just get on camera and talk about nothing. You have to give people something of value. And you have to to keep it short. So when I post videos, I try to keep 'em less than two minutes, 90 seconds if I can. You know, it just depends. I'll do it in one, two, no more than three takes. And if I can't get it in three takes, just forget it. I'll come back later. Because mm-hmm. I want it fresh, I want it off the cuff.   Anne: Yeah. I agree.   Tracy: I want it to be as authentic as possible.   Anne: Yeah, I agree. And so the big question is, and I know most of, a lot of students will, well what do I post? Or what do I talk about? Like what do you talk about? Do you talk about voiceover? I don't think the intent is to do a hard sell on hire me, I do voiceover. What are your thoughts on creative videos that would bring value?   Tracy: Well, I'd say touch on things that make us human, touch on things that make us a business person. So one of the best videos I ever did was talking about how I am extra, and at my kids's school I was doing the announcing for the volleyball game, and I was told after that, hey, you know, you don't need to commentate so much about the volleyball game, you know, just do the sponsors and say something at the end of the match. Okay. But I didn't, I just would say something after like every point. I think it did get a little annoying. I did learn from that, but my point was I just couldn't sit there with this microphone and not say things. So I just realized I am extra and I made a little video out of that and about rejoicing in being extra. And so --   Anne: I love that.   Tracy: Yes. So many people relate to that. And that kind of thing that brings us together as humans. it makes us who we are. And I was the kind of girl that went door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood and asking if I could rake your leaves and things. I've always been a go-getter and I know you are too, Anne. And when you're a go-getter in this industry, you can't just sit back and do the minimum.   Anne: Yeah. Agreed.   Tracy: That was my video.   Anne: Agreed. Well, I love that. So now outside of LinkedIn, right, and of course BOSSes out there, I totally encourage all of you just go take the course, just do it. LinkedIn is just one of the best resources for getting work that I can think of. I guess my last question before I ask you, the big question, which is I will get to that, is let's talk about templates or how do you reach out to somebody in a cold contact? I feel like cold contacting people is difficult. That I know. And so how do you wrangle that in reaching out and not being considered spammy? Is there a tip or two or three that you have in reaching out to people?   Tracy: Sure. My biggest tip is to look for anything that you can use to find common ground. So when people are just starting out using LinkedIn, one of the best ways to reach out is by geographic area. So you could reach out to folks in LA, I can reach out to folks in Kansas City, and that way we have that in common already and we know that. And that's an easy thing to put into the search terms when we're using the search features of LinkedIn is geographical area. So that's one thing. But another thing, I encourage people to look through their profile and find something that they can relate to. Maybe they mention a cat or a dog or kids, or I like to watch the Chiefs, whatever. Find something. If they've written any kind of personal about section, usually you can find something interesting there to comment about. But as far as templates, I am pro templates within reason, I do think that it's good -- if you're gonna kind of write similar things each time, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So I do encourage people to write templates, but personalize like the first sentence and always say that person's correctly spelled name.   Anne: Oh yeah. . Absolutely.   Tracy: Like I bet people spell your name A-N-N. And you're like, uh...   Anne: Yes. All the time. All the time. They do.   Tracy: And I always get, yes, T-R-A-C-E-Y is how people end up spelling my name. I'm like, there's no E. . We don't like that.   Anne: There's no E. Absolutely. Well, what wonderful advice. Now in addition to LinkedIn, what would be your best business tip for people just getting into the industry on how to establish their business or get work and be successful?   Tracy: I would say the best thing is to start local. Start with who you know. I think I'm hearing from your story that people who were your first clients were people you actually knew in your life, and they were in mind too. So when you are truly ready to hang out your open for business sign, which means you've got a great website, you've got a great professionally produced demo, you have enough training to where if someone says, I need this, you can give it to them-- your sound quality has to be top notch, you have to have a low sound floor, no buzzing, no echo, all that stuff, and you know how to use your equipment, including source connect. If you say that you have source connect -- okay. If you have all that stuff, then you are ready to start hanging out your sign and telling people on Facebook and Instagram and whatever that you're doing voiceover. And chances are there's someone in your life who needs voiceover, especially if you have a decent personal social network. And that's kind of how it happened for me was I was personally connected to someone that owned a marketing firm, and he was one of my first clients. My alma mater hired me to do a short documentary. There were some little IVR things that I did, and it just kind of snowballs.   Anne: Absolutely.   Tracy: Yeah. And then I felt confident. I'm like, okay, I have a little bit of work here that I can showcase. It may not be any brand names that are super sexy, but it's work, and it sounds good and it looks good, so let's put it out there. So that's what I started doing. It builds on each other.   Anne: It's amazing how important local can be in establishing relationships. Also, relationships that keep coming back as you nurture it. I have so many repeat clients that I've had for years because like you say, communication is key, and nurturing those relationships are key. And a lot of them started off locally. And I think that that is something people don't think of. And that also locally helps when you're advertising like where you are voicing from, like voicing from Southern California or Orange County, California or Los Angeles area. Even just putting those words on your website help for people to find you because most of the times when people are searching using Google, it's automatically got localization turned on. And so if they're searching for voice talent, it's gonna search locally first. And so you wanna be up at the top of that search. So, great advice, Tracy. I wanna thank you so very much for joining me today. Yay. My bucket list checked off.   Tracy: Oh, me too. This is so fun. And I'll see you at VO Atlanta in March.   Anne: I know, I'm very excited. How can people get in touch with you and where can they go to get that course again?   Tracy: Okay, so my website, if people wanna check out me or my work or whatever, that's tracylindley.com. And the course is @thelinkedinedge.com. Or if you wanna just look at the one for voice actors, it's thevoedge.com and it'll take you right there.   Anne: Perfect.   Tracy: And I'm happy to answer questions. Contact me on Instagram. My handle is @TracyLindleyVO, pretty much everywhere.   Anne: Awesome. Tracy, thank you so much again for joining me. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to understand about your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit and find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. Tracy, thank you again, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Tracy: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian.    Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today?    Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound.    Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or --   Anne: Yeah. (laughs).   Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there.   Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here.    Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me.    Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio.    So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it.    Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like?    Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology.    So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field.    So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional.    But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor.    Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio.   Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury.    Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go.    'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client?    Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.    Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing.    Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio.    But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone.    So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable.    It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian?    Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important.    But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one.    Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then.    Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast.    Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes --   Anne: To support the equipment, right?   Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer.    Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say --   Gillian: No, no, tell me.    Anne: Update. Update.    Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs)    Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that.    I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment.    Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world.    Anne: Right.    Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you.    Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right?    Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Which is sucky.    Anne: Exactly.    Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive.    Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time.    Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers.    Anne: That's a long time. Yeah.    Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice.    Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times.    So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use?    Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great.    Anne: Sure.    Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation --   Anne: Reflection.    Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that?    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little --   Anne: Panels.    Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them?    Anne: Does that go on a mic?    Gillian: It goes on a mic stand.    Anne: Yes, I have. I have.   Gillian: Have you seen I them?    Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion.    Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious.    Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me.    Gillian: Great.    Anne: A room in a room is great.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well.    Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is.    But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think?    Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right?    Gillian: The investment is forever.    Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs).    Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too.    Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.    Gillian: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn't reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you'd like it to be written, great! But if it isn't written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They're gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Your vocal brand is the key to getting noticed in this world of noise. It's much more than just the sound of your voice. It's who you are, what you believe in and what matters to you. Anne & Lau discuss what goes into a vocal brand & what you can do to develop yours. Vocal branding is all about uncovering your uniqueness in order to let it shine through in every project you take on. Take time to get to know yourself. What matters to you? Why are you a voice actor? A voice is like a fingerprint: no two are exactly alike. Once you've figured out what makes your vocal brand stand out, it's time to learn how to harness it. The key here is authenticity. And it's not just what you say—it's how you say it. Figuring out how to combine all these elements into one cohesive brand can seem overwhelming, but don't worry! Anne & Lau are here to show you how it's done.    Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to the VO BOSS superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Yay.   Lau: Yay. Hey Anne.   Anne: Hey, Lau.   Lau: Love being back as always. Love it.   Anne: Superpowers, superpowers. I love that we named our series Superpowers.   Lau: Because we have so many of them.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: Like we can't even uncover, identify all of them.   Anne: Business superpowers. And I think that our superpowers, it's in all aspects of our business, right? So including our superpowers to be able to stand out from the crowd. And to be unique. All businesses have competition. And I know that people talk about VO -- VO is so cool because there's competition like technically speaking, but not really, because every single one of us has such a unique product. And I think it's important that we know how to bring out that unique product and not just know how to bring that out. Also, to be able to market that. And that goes right into our brand. And so a lot of what I do with students is I will tell them that I am going to not only brand them in terms of what genre should I be in, but vocally brand them, right? And that really is something that's not just a visual brand on a website, but something that it is absolutely related to their product. Right? A vocal branding.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: So what does vocal branding mean to you, Lau?   Lau: Oh gosh. It's such a big umbrella. It really is. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind, Anne, is just having the knowledge of knowing as a coach, that no one in the world has the voice you have. Everyone has a unique sound, distinctively unique sound. Okay? They may have similar qualities, but they're distinctively unique. So number one, uncovering that uniqueness in your voice through specific qualities that you could maybe even poll, like pull your group, poll your team, poll your family and say, give me qualities that describe my voice. Because when I'm gonna look at specs of a breakdown for an audition, the client's gonna break it down for you. they're gonna give you vocal qualities. So that's one of the big ones I feel that really distinguishes your vocal branding from someone else's and says, oh, I know that. That's Deb. That's Susan.   Anne: Oh, I know that voice.   Lau: Yeah, I know that voice.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting to me is I find that there's a lot of people who come to me who will try to perform and sound like they think everybody wants them to sound like, and not enough about sounding like themselves. Because I truly believe, and I say this all the time, I truly believe that we are human. We wanna connect. We want to understand who you are. And that comes through, that shines through in your voice, that very unique voice. So unless you're doing a soundalike for someone, or even a character where you're trying to sound a particular way, I think that your vocal brand needs to be brought right up there, front and center, because I think that's what truly makes you unique. And it brings the acting out.   So it's not about the sound, right? It's about how do I bring the acting out? And that becomes a vocal brand for you because the personality is intermixed. I think personality has a lot to do with creating a unique vocal sound. Right? Your personality, your, your heart, your essence. I don't know, Lau, you always have great words for this. What would you say your ethos, I dunno, the ethos of your vocal branding?   Lau: The ethos of your vocal branding.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: It's like the height. Like what is the apex of what someone is thinking about when they think about you? It's like they think about you with this word, with this adjective, with this action verb. Your name comes up. That's like, to me, that's the zenith of it all, is like, when they think of this, Anne Ganguzza comes up. When they think of that, this one comes up. And that to me is amazing. And in no way should that feel limiting to people. Like, oh, does that mean that's all I can do? Or that's all they think of me as. Well, they think of you as, as a product, as an incredible product that has this vocal branding. And that's the first and foremost that you want them to think about. You don't want them to be confused. You never want your audience to be confused. You always want them to think of you for doing the best thing. And with your vocal quality as a vocal talent, they wanna know you as something, whatever that something is.   Anne: And then whatever that something is, learn how to define that also in words because that words can translate to words on a page or words in an email that you are submitting with a demo to an agent, something that sets you apart. And it can also be different unique aspects of your voice. Like let's say an accent, right? A tone, if you have that really beautiful bass, baritone or that bright mom sound or whatever that might be. Bilingual, right? Can you sing? Like, those are all vocal qualities that can really help distinguish you from the competition. And so know what those vocal qualities are and be ready to be able to explain them to a potential client. Also showcase them. I think it's so important that these vocal brandings are basically shown or in a demo, right? So that people can hear that vocal quality. And if you have a good producer, they're going to know that and they're gonna know how to bring those vocal qualities out.   Lau: And you know, it's having a visual now of like a performer, a theater actor, a professional speaker who's in front of a crowd live, they're in front of a crowd. What's the first and foremost thing we see visually is their visual branding. So that might be a costume or wardrobe or particular visuals that we're getting on camera or on a stage. Right? Well, that's a big part of the kinds of roles they play, but that's not everything. We have to know what's underneath it. We have to know what's the internal process that they're using to bring out their personality, their persona, their humanity, the thing that we connect to. But that covering, so to speak, that like coming in and saying, I can sound like this. I can put this on, is great to have, it's just not the whole job. It's not the whole thing. You have to be able to do the internal work to really have the authentic connections to the process and then put the wardrobe on it, and then put the schmaltz as we say on it, the frosting on it. Right? But you have to have the cake first. You can't just have the frosting, even though we'd like to, you gotta build a cake first.   Anne: I'm always astounded when I work with different voices. Now, there are some voices who tonally, right, will have varying degrees of range tonally. But sometimes I think when students are just beginning, they think that that's what range is all about. And I beg to differ because range is not just a tone or I have a high pitch, I have a low pitch. I think really range for an artist an artist really comprises the tone mixed with the personality, mixed with the performance, mixed with the acting.   And so whenever people say, I want range in my demo, right, I will actually focus more on the acting first, rather than, oh, can you pitch your voice up? Can you pitch your voice down? It's so hard for people to do that because then they get so consumed with, I'm going to sound very low, or maybe I'm just gonna sound very high and I'll just do this for the rest of the copy. And so Lau, I know you've had lots of experience working with students do that.   Lau: Oh, oh my goodness, ton. And it's that what I call the over management, the maneuvering, every M word you can think of, the manipulation of sound, which of course, technically if you're a singer, if you're a rapper, if you're a speaker, if you're a vocalist of any kind, we do have to learn mechanics. We have to have a vocabulary that we can rely upon that helps with repeatability so that we can repeat deliveries for sure. But that still does not do that internalized work of understanding the language, the syntax, the cadence, the rhythm, all of that, which I believe is --   Anne: The story.   Lau: Yes. The story.   Anne: The story.   Lau: And whether you are religious or not, religious is irrelevant. There's a spirituality, there's something that we can't quite put our finger on that is larger than us. It's bigger than us that we can connect to, which creates a universal internal connection to your audience that they can't put their finger on either. It's just, it's real, it's authentic. Our friend Jim from Lotas talks about that all the time, authenticity. What is authenticity? What is that honest connectedness that we have? I'd like to think it's partly psychological, but it's also partly from the heart and the soul and the gut.   Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.   Lau: Right?   Anne: And that's where people, if they're nervous about synthetic voices, this is where we've got them .   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: If you can really stand true to your authenticity and bring that out in your acting and in your voice, then that is what is going to surpass any synthetic voice out there. And know that your connection and your vocal brand has very much a place in voiceover now and for the future, absolutely. And I say this after, gosh, close to 40 episodes, talking to people in synthetic voices, knowing that there is a place for that. But there's very much a place for our unique vocal brand and our unique, authentic brand, authentic voice.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And it's hard, if not impossible, to decipher exactly what it is. It's like when we see a brilliant performance, we hear a brilliant dissertation, we hear something rhetorical that moves us -- it's hard to completely put into words why we are moved to a call to action. Why we are changed, why we are cathartically shifted in a way. It's that beautiful recipe and combination of the visuals, the vocals, the internals, the connectedness to the audience that create that concoction that is so unique, that becomes persona. I mean, that's persona personified , as they say. It's, it's, that's your brand. Like your brand is how do I move you? How do I shift you?   Anne: Yeah. And I think it's one of the hardest things for people first entering into the industry to really accept and recognize. I know, I can't tell you the amount of people who don't really like the sound of their voice. They're true voice--   Lau: But yet they wanna make a living at it .   Anne: And they wanna make a living at it. And yet they're in voiceover and they wanna pursue voiceover because they think what everybody wants to buy is this performed sound that they have heard. I think we're such a product of our experience in listening for years. Right? When voiceover first came onto the scene, it was very much an announcer style. It was very much a, a unique style. And so hearing that, depending on your age, really, this does depend on your age. Kim Herdon actually in one of my workshops mentioned it too. And I thought, yeah, when you are being directed, a lot of times it is a factor how old the person is that is directing you. Because what they hear in their ears as a conversational or authentic read might differ from let's say, somebody that is a millennial that might be directing you.   And so I think no matter who's directing you, if you can bring forth the authenticity and your own unique style, I think that that is the place to absolutely start. And if you can bring that out, I feel like that's, you're at the height of your acting. It's kind of like, how many times have we watched a B movie? And it's so obvious, right, that the actors are maybe not as sincere or maybe they're not connecting with the audience. And so for those of you that are trying to figure out what your sound is, stop because it's not a sound. It's not a sound.   Lau: No, no, it's not. It's the land, what I call the land like how it lands on someone. How is it received? How is it thought of that's the most important? And the second is like great acting like Meisner exercises, like the second I'm thinking about myself -- which is natural. A lot of us will lose focus at times, think about ourself. But that's a really good gauge for us as business owners, as BOSSes, as delivery folks doing vocal delivery. The second I'm thinking about myself is the second I've lost contact with the other, the other.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: Whoever that is. It just be an admin. It could be an executive assistant, it could be whatever. But if I lose that level of focus, not only did I lose the information of what they're giving to me, but I also lost the authentic response of how what I'm saying and doing is landing on them.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: And then I don't have authentic queuing anymore. I lost my queuing ability. Anne: Yeah. And I think even when we're talking about niches -- again, I always talk about people starting out here and you're trying to figure out where you belong in the industry. Like, where do I fit? I think no matter what niche you're pursuing, commercial, corporate, explainer, promo, there is absolutely in every niche, there is a unique you in that. Even if, let's say promos, right? And they sound announcery. right? And oh, great, I get to be an announcer. Sure. But you've still got a whole lot of personality that's put into that announcer, and you're bringing a whole lot of you to that. Like, I'm just, makes me think of Joe Cipriano, like I could pick out his voice in a second because he brings his personality to it. It really is something that you have to be comfortable with. And I think that's a journey for a lot of students to become self-accepting and to allow -- and vulnerability, right -- that to come out in a performance.   Lau: Absolutely. And I think you have to be okay, okay, sometimes more than okay with whatever you're saying and doing, when it does land, and it's being accepted and it's being rewarded, being okay with that being enough. In other words, if I get into that mindset, yeah. But I, they haven't seen me do this and I don't love that as much as I love this da da -- take that out of the situation and say, look, they're seeing one potential within me of value. And they're loving that and they're valuing that. Let that be okay. Let that be enough. Go other places to show other sides of your voice and other sides of what you can do. But if that's okay, if that's what a big part of your branding is, because sometimes it's enough; people don't wanna know you as everything.   They don't want -- I'm sure we've all had that experience where we see a movie star that we know and love, and we are tracking them, and all of a sudden they're doing a role that they love. That's challenging to them. but we don't wanna see 'em in that role. It's like, it's almost uncomfortable to see them in that role because we don't know them as that. It doesn't seem authentic to us. It seems pushed or it seems weird to us. Does that mean they're not capable of doing the role? ? No, of course not. It just means we've compartmentalized in our brain their branding to us.   Anne: Sure, sure.   Lau: And that means something to us. I think that branding, for some weird reason can have a negative connotation like it's simplistic or superficial when it's not. It has a real lifestyle meaning to people of how they place you Sure. And compartmentalize you within their life, in their lifestyle.   Anne: I wanted to kind of tap into what you're talking about in terms of is there just one brand? Do you just have one brand and maybe not, maybe you can have mult -- I mean, I have multiple brands actually. And so each one of those brands though has a piece of me, has a piece of authentic me in that. And again, I think that that's one of the most important things that we want to emphasize here. And that vocal brand should be something that people can remember you by and then easily come back.   And that's the whole thing, right? Because we're talking about the physical properties of your voice and the physicalities of how we sound and what we can offer as a unique value proposition to our potential clients. Now, how are we going to market that? In my corporate narration world, I have a particular demo that really has my sound, my unique value pro -- I call it my unique value proposition for corporate. And I may sound different when I am doing e-learning, and in reality I am because I'm a different person, right? I am teaching when I'm an e-learning versus corporate, I'm selling, or even commercial, I'm a little bit selling. I'm trying to convince people. So because the context is different, you get a different part of me. And that part of me is still very much me, but it is also a different brand. So I think that for each of your vocal brands, you need to have demonstrations, demos that really showcase yourself in those particular niche  markets.   Lau: Right. You have to have that. That's a necessity. And from my experience, Anne, in my business, people come in, potential clients come in, prospects for a particular specific branding. Once they work with you in that, they start trusting you that yeah, you do that, you do it well. They're getting their value, they're getting what they need. They will open up to cross branding, which I call cross pollination, which means --   Anne: I love that, cross branding.   Lau: I offer, you offer three, four, five, six different services, whatever.   Anne: Hey, could you do this?   Lau: Yes. But they're not unrelated. Like, I'm not gonna clean your curtains, and I'm not gonna babysit your kids. Right? So they're not unrelated, they're all within this sphere. But they're much more open, and rightly so as I would be too, moving into those services once they are educated to understand what they need and what they want, versus coming in off the street for those services because they already came in for a particular brand.   Anne: Sure. And once they do that, I think it's important that you remain consistent in that brand.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: I think branding is just all about consistency, right? I mean, we've spoken about branding before. I mean, obviously look, I've got my headphones, I've got my glasses, I've got the whole red thing for VO BOSS. Visually there's a brand, but also there is that vocal consistency that comes to the show that you and I, we're giving of ourselves. We have our authentic selves. And that is a very important part of the VO BOSS brand. People don't listen to the podcast to look at my headphones. It's about my delivery, our conversation, our heart, our authenticity between the two of us. And that is, again, something that works in conjunction with marketing, maybe a visual. Right? And that has to be consistent for people, to make it memorable for people.   Lau: Yes. I would say it has to be consistent, but not necessarily constant.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Like we oftentimes think, oh, I have to be online all the time. I have to be posting on social all the time. I have to -- well, to some degree, yes. But do you need to be constantly doing that? Probably not. But you do have to be consistent in what you're doing so that it's gonna cause the attention that you want. Anne: I'm glad that you said that, because there's absolutely a thing of being too much into, right?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: I actually, myself, even when we're talking about marketing and advertising, and I offer workshops, obviously the VO BOSS podcast -- how much am I going to be marketing that brand? And so you don't want it to be so much --   Lau: You're overdoing it.   Anne: -- that it becomes an annoyance.   Lau: Right.   Anne: But what's so interesting is -- I listen to Gary Vaynerchuk. I don't know if you do, but Gary is everywhere on social media. And his philosophy is that not everybody's on social media all the time. So therefore, the fact that he pushes it out so consistently and so constantly and everywhere means that at any given moment, somebody's going to be able to know his brand and understand who he is. I think you just need to be consistent in that, but not pushing on any one particular. Right? I think that can be something that's tiresome. It's like performance. Right? Anything that repeats really becomes like white noise and people will not pay attention to it anymore.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: So whatever it is that you are giving vocally in your brand or marketing in your brand, give it authentically, and make sure it's not the same thing every single time. Because then it will become an annoyance.   Lau: Yes. And I would say too, like check your ego at the door. Check it at the door. Because none of us are so big and brash and bold that we can't be learning every moment how to make our branding better, make our value better. Here's a quick example. I do my news blast that I send out, and I'm listening to my people. Am I doing it too much? Am I doing it not enough? Da da da da. I just had someone email me, someone who I've known for a while, and he said, listen, Lau, if you don't mind my saying, he emailed me -- if you don't mind saying there's too much animation in this, things are moving, I'm nauseous. I can't read what you wrote.   Anne: I'm nauseous from your email.   Lau: Right? Like, welcome to the inside of my head. I'm thinking, you know what I'm saying? That's like the inside of my head. And I had to stop and I had to say, right, right. I didn't catch it. I didn't think about it. Da da. By Monday I'm gonna fix it. So that doesn't mean that you're always gonna agree with everything that everyone says. You're not. But if you see it's sound advice, no pun intended, sound advice, you see, it makes sense. And you see it's making someone's world harder to get to know you and get the value --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Take out the firewalls.   Anne: Take out the homework. I always say, don't give --   Lau: Get rid of it.   Anne: -- people homework. Yeah.   Lau: Yeah. Don't be egotistical and say, well why? How could he say that to me? He doesn't like my pet -- I don't care about that. I care about him getting value from what I'm sending out.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And if he cared enough to say that to me, I'm gonna care enough to take it under consideration.   Anne: Sure. Absolutely.   Lau: And in this case, case taking action on it.   Anne: Absolutely. I think that that's so important. And I also think it's important to not just be consistent, but also keep the market trends in your back pocket. Research them, understand what they are, and update accordingly. Really vocal trends change over the years, in a grand scheme sort of way. It's gone from announcery to authentic and conversational, mostly. And a lot of that, by the way, is driven by advertising. Right? What sells, right? Again, we don't like being told we're smart consumers. We don't like being told what to do. We like to be able to make our own decisions, and we often ask our peers.   And so that I think is the biggest reason why advertising and the vocal trends changed to a more natural talking like your friend, like, hey, I'd use this product because we don't wanna be told by some loudmouth announcer that we need to buy this product. I mean, we're offended by that. And again, it becomes how can you and this vocal brand service your potential client or your client? It's not about what you sound like. It's not about distributing the vocal noise out there. It's about distributing something that can connect with a listener and move them, inspire them, motivate them.   Lau: Inspire them.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Yes. And I would even add in technical, technique-wise over time, add a little hook for yourself in there. Something you may not always do, but you find you're doing consistently that works -- it might be a little glitch in the voice, it might be be a moment of pre-life. it might be a pick up swing on something you do.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Add something that's yours, that's part of your signature, whatever that is. And just do it consistently. If it works, if it annoys people, they'll let you know. If it doesn't work over time, you'll know.   Anne: Right.   Lau: But do something that's unique to you, authentic to your persona, authentic to your process. And that's something that people will start thinking of you for as well. So many people don't even think, Anne, when they're doing an audition, they want it to be so clean that they don't even think a little, -- is good. Just like a little exclamation, a little moment of vocalization. You know what I mean? Anne: It's too perfect. It's too voice talent. It's too voice actors, too perfect. Yeah.   Lau: It's too edity.   Anne: I can't tell you the amount of times I would have a student, a lot of times this will happen with a male student who has a beautiful, like lower baritone, and at the end of their sentences they'll land it. And I'm like, you need to only give me that gift once in a while, and when I don't expect it. Because if you give me that gift every single word or every single sentence, it's gonna not be a gift anymore. And so you need to give that to me in an unexpected way that's going to capture my attention and not become the same repetitive. That's really what happens when people try to sound or mimic or imitate, unless of course you're doing an impression. But that's a different thing too. Like a lot of times people will be confused when I say that, but when you're a character, I find sometimes when people like character and they're character actors, they are able to bring authenticity to their characters more than they can bring to their own voice.   Lau: Yeah. No doubt about that. And sometimes their alter ego, if they consider it an alter ego, they're doing it all the time. They do it like a tic, it's great, they love it, whatever. Sometimes it can have more authentic appeal than their daily sound can, because their heart and soul is in it. They're so connected to the success of it.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing, their heart and soul is connected to it. And so I'm always trying to convince people that like, you may not be a cartoon or a very dynamically changing character, but for everything that you do in voiceover, you are. You are a character. It's a version of you. It's an excited you, it's a passionate you, it's a somewhat confused you or whatever is called for in the copy. Right? It becomes that -- or I always say, you own the company. Right? If you're trying to talk about your product and sell for a company, then you own that company. So you're always a character.   Lau: It's like the argument we have in the acting world for actors who are not vocal actors, they're actors who are, you know, on camera or stage actors. They're saying, am I becoming someone else? Or am I opening the door within myself to other experiences that connect to my real history? Now I'd like to think it's the latter because I think that most people who are in this field, who are successful, can bring that connection, whether they do it through a sense memory, whether they do it through an extreme empathy exercises, they don't have to have experienced it. They have to connect to the experience. And that's a totally different thing. And ironically, a lot of folks who go through the actual experience can't emotionally connect the way you can as a vocal actor.   Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Right? But you have to have that conduit, whatever that conduit is, to the authentic connection, you have to have it and find it.   Anne: That is what I think so many people, they just, they're coming in to do their auditions, they run into their studio and they're good readers, right? And they read it and then they apply a melody to it that makes it sound like they're in a scene, but they're not really in a scene or acting, reacting, that kind of thing. And so I think for every piece of copy, you've gotta be so in the scene that you're not even thinking about what you sound like.   Lau: Yeah. And then it becomes mono patterned.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: And we're thinking, why am I feeling sing songy? Why am I feeling in the pattern of this?   Anne: Exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Yeah. Right.   Anne: So vocal branding, it is absolutely a thing. It is absolutely something that I think all BOSSes out there, you need to know. Understand your vocal brand, understand who you are within that vocal brand, and then be able to market that vocal brand. So make sure that it's defined, and it can evolve, by the way. It doesn't have to always be one way. You can evolve that, evolve multiple brands. Make sure that you are able to bring that front and center proudly. And that will help to, I think, get you those gigs. Good discussion.   Lau: And dirty it up. Like, don't be so perfect.   Anne: Don't be perfect.   Lau: You don't need to be so polished and perfect. Because emulating real life is like we do make mistakes, and we do have rough starts. And sometimes that will get you a job. Love it. Great discussion.   Anne: Ah, yeah.   Lau: So good.   Anne: All right. So BOSSes, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. You can find out more. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And also great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too, connect and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys. We'll see you next week.   Lau: Bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The advertising landscape is changing. People want to connect with real people, not just faceless brands. Anne & Lau share their tips for putting yourself out there visually. What matters is that you are enhancing your natural essence, not turning into some inauthentic version of you. Share yourself on social media & your website. When clients see who you are, they feel like they really know you. It also makes them more likely to remember you and recommend you to others. If all else fails, present yourself in any way that makes you feel comfortable & shows those around you that you care about what you're doing.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business superpower series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my bestie, favorite special guest, co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey, Anne.   Anne: You know, Lau, since I started with you, I made that decision to have all of our podcasts also be on video. And I have to do my hair, I gotta do my makeup . And I found myself increasingly out there on camera and in front of people. And remember back in the day, when you made that decision -- or maybe you didn't, but I did. It was always like, well, I don't wanna have to be in front of a camera. I just wanna be an actor behind a mic and nobody needs to see my face. Well, I think that's changed.   Lau: Mm-Hmm.   Anne: And I think it would be a good thing to talk about is it necessary for us to have a visual image as well as our voice?   Lau: And I remember actually, like it was yesterday, I remember the day where it was fairly detrimental to be seen because you would be pigeonholed. You'd be stereotyped. Like let's say I, I'm able to do a 10-year-old boy's voice for animation. Then all of a sudden you see me, and I look completely different than that. And now it's stuck in a producer's mind. That was the mindset back then of like, keep yourself hidden enough so that you're branding could go all over the map. And now it's like completely changed in so many ways.   Anne: Has it? See, 'cause that's the question I get these days, especially from character actors, or let's say actors that don't look like they sound. And so they're concerned about being pigeonholed if they show their face. But I am like, these days, especially with video being right up in the forefront right up and everybody's faces, it's so popular. And especially after coming out of the pandemic where people weren't in contact anymore, I do believe that people wanna connect with people. It's a human need to connect with people, to connect with faces. And I, for one, I cannot stand it when I cannot, let's say, call up a business to ask a question to get a real person on the phone. And I know this is weird. Where are my millennials? I'm sorry. My millennials are like, but I can text.   Anne: But even so, I like to call to make sure I can hear a voice on the other end. Or I like to meet on Zoom, a lot of times with new clients, kind of I validate them to make sure they're human. For me, it's a thing. I need to connect with humans. And I am always telling my business students that people wanna connect with a person and not necessarily a logo.   Lau: Yes. Yes. And here's pure irony. You and I come from a generation where we need to do that. Like I, I remember the days where when I needed to get a phone number, I'd call something called Information. Information was 411. And then I'd hear someone, usually the same woman, and she'd be like, hello, Information, how may I help you? And I loved talking to people. I still, I don't trust online booking for hotels. I don't trust online booking for air fare. I, I still have that in me to wanna talk to people, wanna make that connection, wanna have that trust. But here's the irony. In voiceover of those days, that's where we had a lot of announcer reads. That's where we had a lot of caricature style reads, especially in the commercial market. Today, today, no one wants to talk to each other. You'll always get a machine, you'll always be online filling out those fields online, right? You'll never be able to get customer service. But stylistically we want naturalism. We want to have naturalism.   Anne: We want authenticity. Mm-hmm. Authenticity, that's the biggest trend. Isn't that funny? And especially from the younger generation, right? They want that authenticity. So I believe that a visual image, an in-person or an on-camera or a, that kind of a thing really helps to bring the authenticity to the business.   Lau: It does. Like I wanna see you. I wanna see that you're a real person. You're not a bot, you're not an avatar. You're not a cartoon drawing. That's okay. Like I love seeing those, but that doesn't take the place of the person. I still wanna see the person. If I'm gonna work with you, hire you, cast you, whatever, I still wanna see that you're a person and get a sense of that.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting? It's gotten to the point where I am putting myself out there so much visually that I have a brand ,and you know what my brand consists of? Headphones, that might be red or blue or purple. Or I just got a really beautiful pair of navy blue, and I got a pair of blue glasses, . And I just ordered, do you know what I just ordered? A pair of red glasses. And I also ordered a wind sock that is red . Uh, so maybe when I'm gonna be in the BOSS booth recording an episode, I might have a red headphone with red lipstick with red glasses, with a red -- but it becomes a visual part of my brand and it becomes something that people recognize for me. And it becomes consistent. I believe that consistency brands recognition and brands, something being more memorable. And I think that in addition to your voice being memorable, connecting that with a human, authentic being on the other side and also adding some visual branding can really help to make you a memorable brand.   Lau: Yes. And anyone who has been an actor either on tv, done film, done theater, knows the power of wardrobe, the power of makeup, the power of a mask. You know, we'll call it a mask right now because it could be be for men as well, or whatever you identify as. You have something that you may utilize to initiate your branding visually, whatever that is. It could be a hat, it could be, as you said, glasses, lipstick, it could be even a pen that you use, even a prop that you use. You know what I mean?   Anne: Nails.   Lau: Yeah. Nails. Right. So that it sort of gives you a little bit of superpower. It gives you a little bit of dynamic to fall into that role, whatever that role is for you, that if you don't do it, and you don't have it, it's a tougher way to reach the role that you're trying to play.   Anne: And that includes websites too, because that's one of the biggest questions I get is, do I put my photo on my website? Because that has always been the biggest bone of contention, right? Because I'm a voice actor, they don't need to see my face, but again, online people, before they even know you, you want to make yourself as memorable as possible. Yes, it's wonderful to think that my voice alone could do it, but why not your voice combined with your authentic headshot? And I'm gonna say, even if you don't sound how you look, I can say there's value in having, on your about page, a photo of yourself.   I don't think that that is going to misrepresent you at all. And especially if we're talking about authenticity, right? Who is it behind the voice? I think that that really warrants a lot to showcase a photo of yourself. Now, for me, I've always been about visual branding, and so on my website, I've always had a photo of myself, my voiceover website. And I feel as though it doesn't hurt me at all. I think it probably helps me. I think that I probably look like I sound. I don't know, Lau, what do you think? Do I?   Lau: Yes. I think your visual branding matches everything else that you're doing. Not always the case with voiceover talent, but that's okay. For you, I think it's perfect. Perfect. Your visual matches your vocal. It's wonderful.   Anne: So then again, let's talk more in depth about if your visual doesn't match your vocal. Can it hurt you if you put your photo on your website or -- I mean, I feel like you're gonna have to interact with your clients at some point.   Lau: Well, that's it.   Anne: In some way. Right?   Lau: That's it. I think he, you can't avoid the unavoidable and you know, you may not always meet everyone in person, but you are going to be -- now that we're in post COVID, we're having many more in-person events come back.   Anne: Or video meetings.   Lau: Or Zoom. Yes. Mm-hmm. Video meetings. And do you always wanna have your video off? Do you always wanna look a little bit MIA, like you're not fully present? No. You wanna have the ability to have confidence and say, I like the way I look. I'm proud of the way I look. It's part of who I am as a business person. And if they misconstrued my sound with the way I look, you know, hey, what can I do about it? That's called living in the world. I would rather see someone than not for sure.   Anne: Exactly. Yeah. As a client, absolutely. I would much rather deal with someone that I can see visually. Now have I seen all of my clients visually? No. No. But I have usually contacted them via email or at one time or another, my repeat clients, right, I've seen them. I've been in a video meeting with them to discuss a project or I've contacted them for some reason one way or they've live directed me. Some people can put the camera off during one of those sessions. But I like to have it on just to say hi. Just to let people know, hi, I'm a real person. And now during my performance, I don't necessarily have to have it on me as long as I've introduced myself as a part of my business with my visual face.   Now let's talk about, is there any sort of code of how should I look? Remember a long time ago there used to be restrictions, I know, for in the workplace about hair, right? And about beards and about that sort of a thing where it wasn't considered corporate to have a beard or long hair or something like that. So what are your thoughts about today and, and for a voice talent, is there a code of anything really?   Lau: I think it's the best time, Anne, to be able to show your face because the playing field is so open now with what's acceptable, what's welcome. Everything's diversity. Everything is age, everything is background, everything is, you know -- when you go into, like even in Manhattan, when I go into some of the more corporatey kind of firms, they're very business casual. The younger generation is much more casual --   Anne: I love that.   Lau: -- than they were years ago. I love it too. So I think a lot more is acceptable. But that being said, I don't think it gives people a free pass of saying, oh, I'll just look like whatever. I'll just stick on whatever. I'll just do whatever. I would take the time to work with a coach, your coach, whoever is great with styling, great with image, great with fashion, great with branding, and say, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. I don't wanna go too far away from my authentic, neutral self, but I wanna look really great for who I am. I wanna look put together, I wanna be fresh, I wanna have great colors, great fits.   Anne: Or you wanna look like you care.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: Look, there's a lot of casual people in California. I get that. I've lived here for enough years to know. But coming from the east coast to the west coast is, in terms of clothing and ideals about looks and how you would dress for a corporate job, it's actually quite a bit different. But the cool thing is like, I wear black, I wear leather. Everything I wore on the east coast, I wear on the West Coast. And I haven't changed because I've changed where I've lived. And the cool thing is, is that it allows me to be me. I mean California, for all their casualness, you don't have to put on fancy clothes. But I think also you don't wanna look like that you don't care about your appearance.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: And so I think that no matter what you have, like, and I remember, gosh, I remember tattoos weren't a thing either. This is my corporate background coming in. Tattoos weren't a thing, nose piercings that -- I've always wanted to get a nose piercing, by the way. This is, this is is Anne's admission. And I think I'm going to get one.   Lau: The truth comes out.   Anne: At this age, I am going to get one, a very small delicate, 'cause I'm a, I'm a bling girl. Right? And I feel like a small bling right here would look awesome.   Lau: Do it, do it.   Anne: But, so now people are gonna hold me to it. So maybe at one point, everybody, BOSSes out there, you'll see me with a little bit of a nose, a nose pierce.   Lau: A little diamond bling right there.   Anne: Little diamond bling. 'Cause it's --   Lau: I love it.   Anne: I like the bling.   Lau: I love it.   Anne: But yeah, I do think that as long as you're showing your authentic you and it's something that your authentic you is something you care about, I think that presents -- because again, it's personal, but don't forget that our personal brand is a business brand. And so we're representing ourselves to people who might want to hire us or maybe not hire us based upon our looks. Is that a thing? True. I mean, I think if we're gonna be brave and show our face and show who we are, we have to also accept the fact that maybe people won't hire us based upon our looks. Lau, thoughts?   Lau: Yeah. If you're meeting people too, which you and I are meeting people all the time, whether we're on Zoom or we're in person, we're meeting people, you know, how do we come across? How do we look them in the eye? Do we smile, all this stuff? So I don't want it to seem like you have to put on armor to meet people. But you wanna enhance your natural beauty, your natural essence, your natural energy. It's sort of like the rule of thumb for a really great actor headshot is I don't want it to be glamorous. I don't want it to be overdone. I want it to be super natural and look like you on a really great day.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: So that's sort of the rule of thumb. And ask yourself this question, look at all the businesses out there that now have the owners or the people working in the business show their visual faces. Real estate agents, they all have their faces on cards, right. We have a lot of branding in advertising for everything from furniture to cars to on and on it goes of people who own the dealership, people who run the furniture stores, and, and you're thinking, well why? Why are they on there? Why don't they have, you know, beautiful looking talent on there that are gorgeous? No. Because people wanna see real people. They wanna see who they're creating relationship with to buy these products, but they just wanna make sure that they look good on a good day. They don't wanna roll outta bed. You know?   Anne: Do you remember Don LaFontaine for many years? We heard his voice, heard his voice, heard his voice, and then he started doing the commercials where he, he was in person? I love that. And also because you're on the east coast, oh Lau, please let me know if you -- Men's Warehouse, do you remember his voice? Oh my gosh, for years --   Lau: Oh yes!   Anne: The guy who owned Men's Warehouse had the most beautiful voice and I thought, wow, he should be doing more voiceover instead of his commercials. And then they showed him on the commercial. And so he brought his visual brand, and I loved it. I absolutely loved finding out who the person was behind the voice. And --   Lau: And now they all do it. Now they all do it. And sometimes you're looking and you're going, I'd rather they stayed behind the camera. . Like, you know, they have these deep, you know, Boston accents, you know, come on in and buy a sofah.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: You know, what I mean? But the point is, that's what the largest demographic in the commercial market really wants. They want approachable, natural, authentic, real authentic.   Anne: And you know, just like, okay, so just like being an announcer has gone off trend, right? And whenever we get behind that mic, we feel like we have to put on that voice. Here is my voiceover voice. Hello, I'm Anne and this is my voiceover voice. Like that's a put on kind of a -- like people want more authentic. Now character, we're talking something completely different, right? Because you become that character, but you're becoming an authentic character, right? So just as, we don't necessarily like inauthentic sounding or inauthentic in social media where everything's always perfect, we like the authentic person, and that visual brand helps to bring out that authenticity. And I think that is something that can truly help elevate your business as scared as you are.   And for all of the people out there who have gotten into voiceover, because, well I got into voiceover so they didn't have to see my face. Well, I think it's time guys for you to appear and show up to your businesses and show up because we wanna connect with you. And I'm always talking in terms of performance, when I'm trying to get that conversational read, even for narration, right? I'm trying to get that engagement. It's that back and forth. That visual can help you. I'm always talking about, I want that authenticity, I want that engagement. Your visual brand can help you. And that visual brand is in person, when you meet people, your website, it can be a great indicator for your visual brand as well. Even if it's just a picture of you on the about page. I think that it's something that can bring a lot of value, a lot of value.   Lau: I agree. And I think you feel differently. You internalize your external. So you know, it's a fine line. Like we're not all about what we look like. We're not all about what externally comes out. But there is a deep connection between what I'm internally emotionalizing and feeling and what I'm externally giving out to the world. And so I think we can learn a lot from actors who are going for visual roles that they don't dress in costume, and they shouldn't dress in costume for an audition, but they should give a flavor, give a hint of the character in how they're gonna present themselves when they walk in the room.   Anne: And it's always bringing themselves to the character. Right? That really is the winning --   Lau: Yeah, you're gonna do --   Anne: It's the winning. Right? Your twist. Your unique, authentic twist to the story no matter what. Whether you're performing behind the mic, performing in front of the camera, your online storefront, whatever that is, it's helping you to bring that organic, authentic part of you to the role. And even yeah, as you say, character acting.   Lau: If you're gonna do a narration, a corporate narration gig, don't come in wearing your old t-shirt and shorts and flip flops because there's gonna be a little bit of a psychological jump for you to do to that particular job. Come in, you know, come into your booth in your home.   Anne: You're coming into it as an employee, right? In reality, if they've hired you to be the voice of their brand, you are now an employee of that company. So now, dress visually and I think emote as if you were a part of their brand, which you are. If they've hired you and they're going to pay you, you are now an employee, quote unquote, of that company. So.   Lau: Yeah, there's a culture. So there's always this culture to every gig, every client, every happening that shifts and changes. It really doesn't and shouldn't stay the same. To have the mindset of like, well they'll just accept me the way I am -- okay. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes they want to have a visual mirror as to who they are, how they're coming in, how they feel about the work. Same with your clients that are your coaching clients or demo clients.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: They wanna feel comfortable that you understand where they're coming from. And sometimes that's visual cues.   Anne: It's very interesting because I coach without visual, I do not coach through Zoom. I coach through ipDTL. Yay, love ip -- why do I coach through ipDTL? Because it's a high quality audio connection, and I need to hear those nuances, especially when I'm doing long format coaching for narration, medical, nuance is everything -- actually nuance is everything for every part of voiceover I think. But that's me. And so I need to be able to hear really well. I need to be able to hear that coming through. And it's interesting 'cause I'll coach a student 10, 20 sessions, and then I'll talk to them over Zoom when I reveal their demo. I always do a Zoom reveal so I can finally meet them. And most of the time I'm not necessarily surprised at how they look 'cause they have a presence on social media or they look like they sound. But sometimes I am completely surprised and pleasantly so. I've never been unpleasantly surprised. But absolutely when I've seen someone, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.   And so I think a lot of times when I'm coaching for voiceover, right, that is primary is voiceover is your voice and hearing the nuances in your voice. But I always wanna hear your authentic self come through in the voice. But always, especially when you're representing a company, you are the employee of that company. But I need your unique, authentic self to come through. And a lot of times that authentic self is your personality. Right? A lot of times your voiceover, I think, is made better by your personality, your unique personality that you bring to it. Because I'm here to help you, I'm here to serve you, I'm here to tell you about this great product that you're -- it's always positive. I don't think we're ever, unless we're doing character work, right? I don't think we're ever emoting things that are negative. Right? Typically we're not hired for negative sounding voiceovers or angry voiceovers, again, unless we're a character. It's mostly a positive, comes from the heart, from a helpful situation. What are your thoughts on that, Lau?   Lau: Oh, I agree. I agree. And I, I mean when you consider how many people out there that are visual learners, they literally take in information, process information and create quick output based on what they're taking in visually. Like I have to give them something to work with if I have the ability to. If they don't see me, they see nothing visual that I do, well, okay. But oftentimes they will, they'll go to my website. They'll go to your social, they'll go to something that has you on it, whatever that is, . And they'll say quickly, do I feel comfortable with this person? Happens in like two seconds.   Anne: Excellent point. And I'm glad you brought that up because whether people decide to put their picture on their website, which is the biggest question I get, or not, right, there's social media somewhere, somewhere out there, there's going to be a photo of you that someone might discover. And maybe that's not the photo that you want them to discover first. Maybe it could be a photo from years ago when you weren't in voiceover or maybe you're being crazy and you know, having fun at a party. Maybe that's not the first photo that you want your potential client to see.   So I figure if you're going to put out a photo, put out that photo that is authentic you now and not you maybe 20 years ago when you weren't doing voiceover. And that's what a lot of my argument is. They're like, yeah, but I, you know, they're not hiring me for my face. And I'm like, true. But they wanna connect with a human being. And by the way, if they really wanted to, they probably could find a picture of you somewhere out there on the internet.   Lau: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting too. Like it's, this is on topic, off topic. It's like when we were at the conference out in LA, you and I were at that conference out in LA, which we had a fab time, and I pay attention 'cause I listen, listen, listen for cues -- this is all face-to-face in person -- when I'm going through the steps of speaking at that conference, I'm listening to comments to me and comments about me, about who I am and about my brand. And a number of times I heard sometimes from men, sometimes from women, like, oh, I'm standing next to this beautiful woman right here. Or oh, this pretty lady, whatever. Or isn't she just sweet whatever, making initial comment on my visual in the way I look.   And I take it all in because I say, well, that's what they're getting in the first 5, 10, 15 seconds of not really knowing me, just kind of knowing my brand or knowing my name, whatever, I'll take it. I'm not offended by any of it because I feel like people wanna find the quick way to make themselves feel comfortable with you.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Whatever it is. Maybe I look like their mom, maybe I look like their wife, maybe I look like their daughter. Maybe I have an elegant presence to them in some way. Great. I'll take it. Rather than them saying, oh, you know, she could have switched out that sweatshirt. You know what I mean? She could have put some nice --   Anne: She could have put some nice clothes. Not dirty. That would be my mother talking.   Lau: Yeah. She could've put some, you know, taken off the dirty tennis shoes to come here. You know what I mean? It's--   Anne: My mother who always, you know what I'm saying? My mother, my mother did. Your mother, my mother used to say this all the, all the time she could like if I was going on, she goes, now make sure you put clean underwear on in case you get into an accident.   Lau: Yeah. In case you're an accident.   Anne: Yes. Oh my gosh. . So, but Lau, you know what's so interesting that you mentioned that when I first met you, I think one thing that was instantly drawn to was your smile and your laugh. And that I feel is like an inherent part of who you are and your personality. And again, I feel like that was a visual before I even heard you. Because remember we met during that webinar, we met on video.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And I just remember your smile and your laugh and I thought instantly it was an instant connection. And I feel like that's what you want to be to your clients. You want to have an instant connection with your clients.   Lau: You do. And to the point where it's so deeply psychological, they feel they know you. They feel they know you already. Like they really know you and you're thinking, I don't think you know me or they don't know me, but that's okay. That's okay. I want to know you. I'm going to know you. And if this is just a first step, then this is just a first step.   Anne: And I feel if you're on social media at all, right? Social media is so visual these days. Right? I mean if you are on social media, you're probably throwing out a picture, a picture, maybe not of you, but it could be of your family, could be of your fur babies, could be of -- you're throwing out images of your authentic self. We hope. Right? Because sometimes, as we know is the issue with social media is it becomes the fake presence. But I think if any of you are on social media at all and you've got potential clients everywhere, and they could be seeing your presence socially before they even consider hiring you, and that social impression that they get from you could be from comments that you're making or pictures that you're sharing. Everything's video now. TikTok, Instagram reels. Facebook reels. And I feel like it's almost impossible for you to not showcase your visual on social media these days.   Lau: Yeah. It is. Like you can't get away from it at all. Even if people are taking photos at an event that you attended, you're gonna show up somewhere in the photo. And they may not always be a great photo, but the point is you gotta stay at home and never leave and be super careful to not be caught in some sort of visual. And even in your branding, you have to put out some sort of visual for your branding.   Anne: And I think if your fear is being pigeonholed, I think your vocal type might be pigeonholed anyways if you have a very unique voice. Right? I think when you're talking like a very young voice for your age or any type of voice that is different than you look like, whether you put your picture out there or not, I feel like you're going to be cast in a certain role.   For example, if you have a very high pitched voice right now, although now it's becoming more commonplace, maybe you wouldn't be cast for an older personality that's buying, I don't know, bifocals. So whether your photo is out there or not, your voice is gonna be cast in that way or not based upon the sound or the perceived sound that the client is looking for. So I don't think it matters if you post a photo of yourself on your website that doesn't represent your voice because they're hiring you for the voice, and the voice is then being cast in a role as they see fit. But your authenticity comes through in that voice.   Lau: Yes. And everything's subjective at the end of the day, like you can't get away from subjectivity. That's human nature. We're based on our own frame of reference, how we are perceiving you and how we're taking you in. So I don't think we can fully control that. But there is something, I think, especially with someone who doesn't know you, there is a psychological bond that happens quickly when they perceive that you care.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: They perceive you care enough to put yourself together, to do that little extra whatever it is you are doing, whether it's your hair, or your materials -- or as a woman, Anne, we talk about this all the time, I get so many people who say, Hey Lau, I love what you're wearing. What's that necklace you're wearing? Or where'd you get that ring? Or da da da. Sounds kind of materialistic, but it's something that they can connect to you on. Something that they care about, something that makes them feel comfortable. And then you'll make that chitchat based exactly on, oh, where I got this or what is that? Or, and then that always leads to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And so that, that's valuable.   Anne: And people who know you because of what you've put out there, like visually and/or audibly, right, becomes a point of connection that you can then use to be memorable in your brand. So great discussion. So guys, if you're afraid to put your pho -- don't be afraid to put your photo out there. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there on video. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there in person, in front of your potential clients, in front of your clients. It is a piece of who you are, it is a piece of your brand, and it's a piece of your business.   Lau: I'm with you all the way.   Anne: Well, thank you, Lau, for another thrilling discussion. I love, I love, love, love talking to you every week.   Lau: I love it too. And may I say we look fabulous today.   Anne: Yes. We thank you , because we're our authentic selves. So with that, I'd like to give a great shout out to ipDTL. You too can network, communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.   Lau: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Raising your rates as a voice actor can be a daunting task, but it doesn't have to be. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss tips for approaching money conversations with clients, moving past the fear around charging what you're worth and deciding when to raise your rates. It's important that you know what your time is worth and what kind of value your clients are getting from working with you. Your voice is an asset. By taking charge of these conversations & setting your rates accordingly, you can make sure that your business is running smoothly. Your clients want to work with someone who knows their own value and isn't afraid of asking for it. And if you need someone to talk you through the process, keep on listening…   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Woo-hoo! Always so wonderful to see you.   Lau: Always great to be back. .   Anne: Well, Lau it's a change of seasons and so I'm feeling like I've gone back and reflected upon my business, and it is the time of year where I make the consideration, do I want to raise my prices or not? And what a great discussion Lau, because it is so difficult. How do you raise your prices? How do you raise your rates? And how do you go about doing that with clients that you've had for years or new clients for fear of, oh my gosh, your rates are too high, or rates are too low. I thought it would be a wonderful thing to discuss today on how we can raise our rates, because as businesses, we need to be profitable, right? For the majority of us in this industry, we would like it to be a business and not a hobby. And so to be a business, we need to yield a profit and to yield a profit, that includes pricing yourself. So let's start with you. Talk to me about, first of all, how do you set your prices for your particular voiceover jobs, acting jobs? What do you do first in order to set a fair rate for yourself or a fair price to yourself?   Lau: The question of the year, I say --   Anne: Isn't it though?   Lau: Not even of the day, but of the year. I can hear all of your listeners. The BOSSes are moving a little bit closer, and listening closer. Now, it's a great conversation to have. So I really am thrilled that we're having it today. In my opinion, there's a lot of fear around this conversation. There's a lot of apprehension, a lot of almost terror, I'd say, in really giving yourself as a person and also your brand, as a business, a price tag. That's very difficult for people's brains to get around, especially creatives who are artists and women can have a tough time with that as well.   Anne: Oh yeah.   Lau: And I think everyone can have a tough time as they move through their business, not just in early stages either. Like, people that are at 10, 15, 20 years into the biz having challenges with this topic. I myself have had many challenges through the years. I think one of the first things that, when we take a step back and we look at the whole fee structure of what we are doing, we have to ask ourself what is our worth? What is our value?   And it's not, not a simple, oh, this is what I'm worth and this is my value. It's really something to journal about, something to think deeply on, to converse with people you know and trust, and to do some market research, to really go into the market, say, this is our industry, this is my space. The more I niche down in my space, the more I can research the industry going rates, and really just document that. I would take a little bit of time and document that and update that like every six months to a year, just update.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Every six months to a year, get knowledgeable.   Anne: So starting what the industry rates are. And so I totally agree with you there. In order for you to raise your rates, you have to set your rates. And so that's the question, number one is before you can raise them, how do you set them? And I think a great reference point is, and we've mentioned this multiple times on the podcast, is the rate guides. GVAA has a fantastic rate guide, Gravy for the Brain has one, SAG-AFTRA has their rates posted. So that's a great benchmark to start to set your rates.   And I think we've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again, whether you are new to the industry or you've been in the industry for 20 years, you can price yourself at the standard rate. Just because you're new doesn't mean that you have to price yourself at a lower rate than somebody who's been in the business for 15, 20 years. Because in essence, it actually helps the industry if you are pricing yourself at a fair going rate according to the rate guides.   Lau: I would agree with that. Totally agree with that. You took the words out, right outta my head. I was about to say, you almost do the industry in injustice when you go too far low and too far below what the industry rates are. Even though there may be times where you do that and you choose to do that, you need to do that and that's okay. But as a running rule, you wanna stay at the industry rates or above because you wanna drive the market up. You don't wanna drive the market down.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: We oftentimes hear the sayings like it's a race to the bottom. What that really means is like we're all excited about working. We wanna get as much work as we can, charge them anything and just get anything for the business. And I think that there's a time and place for that. But for sustainability and longevity of a business, it just doesn't work. It does not work in any way. And you are devalued. You're immediately devalued in the eyes of that prospect client. So to really sit down and say, okay, whether I'm starting out or whether I'm running my business, you and I have been running our businesses for 15-plus years, is to say, what is my value today? How has that changed from a year ago? How have we grown? What are my products? How have I niched my products? And what are those products valued at in the market today?   I would start there. That's a good start right there. And then to start thinking about time. What does time mean to you? How much value is your time? How valuable is your time? What's your worth? Your knowledge, your ethos, your education --   Anne: Your experience.   Lau: Your experience, right? It's, that's where the subjective force comes in. What makes me unique? What's my value proposition different from others in the space doing similar work, helps establish that value.   Anne: Well, I think also one thing that helps us as freelancers is that I like to break it into different categories. You have the new clients, the ever evolving, I guess, cycle of new clients that come along. And for that, it's easy to set a rate or raise your rate. Okay? Because they've not had previous experience with you. So in a way that makes it easier for us to either celebrate or raise our rates. And it is up to us though, to take that step to do that.   I mean, I myself was guilty for back in the beginning, keeping my rates, keeping my rates, keeping my rates until I felt that I had built my business up enough to warrant raising my rates. But I do feel that every year is a great time to reevaluate your rates, and the economy too. You've gotta take a look at the economy. Now, we've got so many different things happening at this point in our industry.   We have the evolving economy, which is not doing great right now. So is it a good time to raise my rates? Right? We've got that to consider. What is the market willing to pay? What is the market willing to bear for a price of voiceover, especially now with synthetic voices looming on the horizon. So there's a lot of other factors that need to be taken into place, and if it wants to play into our fear, well, that's what does it for sure. Right? A lot of times the economy and other factors including competition from not only voice actors but now synthetic voices -- and so that just builds upon the fear.   If you weren't scared before raising your rates, now we've got a couple, a couple extra things that are being thrown into the mix, but I will say that because we are freelancers and because we continually acquire new clients, this is a good time to be able to set or raise your rate for the new clients that come aboard. And you know what? Here's the deal. If you decide to set your rate higher than you normally do or raise your rate, what's gonna happen is you will see if the market will bear it, right? If people are gonna say, yeah, sure, that's great. And not question the rate. And so when that happens, there's nothing better than that, because that gives you the confidence to really go forth and raise your rates for all clients.   So it's a great test bed when you get a new client to either set your rate higher or actually change your rate for the new clients. Now I like the whole grandfather clause where I've had a client for many years, and because they are a good client that continues to give me business, I will make a decision on an independent basis whether or not I will raise my rates for them. And then that becomes a different conversation, right? Because now that's where you've gotta like own up to saying, look, I appreciate you as a client, and I'm so thankful for the business and thankful for our relationship together. How do I say I'm going to raise my rights now?   Lau: Ooh.   Anne: Oh, there's the tough one.   Lau: Ooh, snap. There's what she did. Well, everyone has a different thought process. And again, you took the words out of my head because the way I tend to run my business is I tend to show loyalty and allegiance to current clients and typically stay at the rates that they're at. You certainly don't have to. And there are many businesses that will go up in rates on current clients. I just haven't done that quite as much. I keep them at the rate, grandfather them in, have the blank slate on new people with a new pricing coming in. And typically there just isn't any conflict of interest with that.   Oftentimes they don't even know the difference. They just see you coming in, and here's the interesting psychological value to that. All of a sudden you give a new pricing, and they may not flinch at all and say, oh, okay, great. And then you think, oh my gosh, I could have done that years ago.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: I could have done that years ago instead of playing all these psychological games with myself. To this person, the value is there. You are worth it. They're ready to go, and why wouldn't they pay that price? So I think to find good quality clients, the kind of clients that fit you, fit your business is so important. And to know that there are going to be clients that are not good for you; they're not good for you any longer, or they don't fit what your value is because they see it as a cost.   Anne: Right. Right. Exactly.   Lau: They don't see it as an investment. So I tend to use very strategic language when I speak to people. Is this your investment or is this a cost for you? And then educate them on what the difference is. And once they figure out that this is an investment, oh yeah, I'm glad you put it that way, then it is worth it to me. So sometimes it takes the little bit of education in there for them to shift their mindset to, well, you spent how much on a college education? You spent how much on your graduate degree? You spent how much on your online courses, what have you. Was that cost or was that investment? So this is the same thing. This is the same thing.   Anne: I love that you say cost or investment, because I think that clients who look at it as an investment are absolutely going to see your worth much more readily than a client that sees it as a cost. And it's also important, I think, for us as actors and creatives to understand that our voice is an asset. And I know I say it, yes, your voice is an asset, but what does that really mean? Right? Your voice contributes to potential millions of dollars in sales , right, for a client. And sometimes I think we forget that. We become so far removed from the product, the end product that we are providing the voice for that we forget our worth in terms of that.   So don't forget that your voice as an asset -- and this, I'll tell you what, I've learned this in my dealings with trying to talk to, let's say, synthetic voice producers or directors or companies that are producing synthetic voices -- to say that the voice is an asset, that it is worthy of compensation. It is worthy of fair compensation because that asset is what contributes to a company's brand. And don't forget that, BOSSes. Your voice contributes to a company's brand, which is no different than a marketing material or an on-air camera talent that gets paid a good amount of money to represent the brand of a company. So I think because we're in our studios, and we're like alone, we forget that somehow, that our voice really does contribute to a brand's value and a brand's ability to sell.   Lau: That's right. Absolutely. And quick anecdote on that one, just this past week I have a, a new agent colleague from LA who opened an agency and she was calling me to check in on a contract that she's working on for voiceover, and she doesn't currently represent voiceover. And she was going through what would be a fair rate for this talent, and she kept saying over and over and over again, I mean, these people are making millions off of this. They're making millions off of this. And we're talking about the difference between like, they offered $350, $350, she went up to $1100. I said, why don't you offer at lea -- oh my god, 1500 is like still so incredibly -- and her, there was a fear factor in there. I could hear the fear slip in. I said, what's the worst that happens?   Anne: They say, no.   Lau: You slide, you do whatever you want to do and feel is right. But my goodness, the truth is it should be actually so, so, so much higher than that. She just didn't wanna start at such a high rate compared to what the original rate they were giving her. She didn't wanna slide so high. But the truth is, it's so outta whack, it's so outta bounds in terms of what a company may be doing with that brand and creating gross versus what the talent is being paid, which is nothing, pennies, literally less than pennies.   Anne: There's something to be said for pricing yourself in such a way that it is value because you've priced yourself higher versus if you price yourself too low, then it's a perception of, well, okay, so that's a cheap price, right, for a cheap talent maybe. And that may or may not be the way that you want your brand to be perceived. So I always have said that I'm Tiffany's, right? I don't go on sale. This is my rate. And if a client chooses to accept that rate, then they are also accepting obviously that that is my worth and that I'm worth the value of that.   And I think that if they don't, it's okay. You have time to go and find the people that will pay you the rate that you're worth and value that charge or your increase in price. And it's a difficult, difficult thing, especially when you attack it from, well, if I raise my prices, am I going to raise my prices for everyone? And I don't think you have to. I think as we've discussed it, I've got people that are grandfathered in, and each one of those clients that I've been working with for a certain amount of time, each gets a special consideration.   Now, I might have worked with people for 10 years already at the same rate. And I think it makes it a whole lot easier when you propose to them that your rates, due to increased costs in running your business, your rates have to change. And this, for anybody that uses, let's say an audio editor for their work, and they're paying them as well, if they go up in price, and you're still charging the same, well, you've gotta recoup those costs somehow as a business.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: I've got that. I've got people that I pay for services that are raising their prices on me. And as a business, I've gotta somehow figure out how am I going to accommodate that cost? Because as a business, I don't wanna lose profit on that because I wanna maintain or elevate my business.   Lau: Right. And there is a huge credence to the philosophy that I wanna price myself above the market rate.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: Not to get into like scamming or anything like that. Nothing negative. Like, oh, I just wanna make as much money as I can. No, no. You wanna say, listen, here's my price, here's my value, here's my investment, and I'm giving you, as you said, the Tiffany's approach. I'm giving you that Tiffany's approach. So you're investing in that, and that, that actually psychologically tells people that your worth is so high, it's so much higher. So it must be worth the cost of admission. So I'm going down that road, I've been going down that road for a number of years now, saying, yes, we are a slightly higher than the average studio. Yes, we are slightly higher, whatever, because here's the value prop X, Y, Z. That's what we do. That's what we give. You don't want that, then we're not the place for you.   Anne: Right. Right.   Lau: So yes, being able to walk away, being able to say, this business isn't gonna work, this client isn't gonna be good. They don't see the value, that's okay. I think that's fine. You know, you don't have to sort of tear for every single person who comes your way. They're not always gonna be the right ones for you.   Anne: You bring up a good point there, and I've seen this as some discussion on the forums as well lately about some talent feeling that they have a need to school their clients on a fair price. And there's a way to do that that is respectful of a client. I think, again, you have to really put yourself in the client's shoes. Not all clients are in direct control of the money that can be paid for your services. Not all clients really do have the budget, and if they don't, I think it's well worth it for us to say or advise that you're not rude about it. Because not every company has the budget to pay voice services for whatever you might be commanding at the moment. So I think be careful when you are renegotiating with your clients back and forth for a rate.   I think for me, when it's a new client and I'm negotiating a rate, I always start on the higher end, which makes it easy to negotiate down. I always leave an open space in my quote, and a lot of times that's in an email that says, please let me know if this fits within your budget. And that sentence alone pretty much just opens the door for negotiation. And so then a client can come back to me and say, well, I've only been allocated this much for the budget, and then I can work with that. So I always kind of shoot higher anyway. And so that kind of works within my, let's raise the rates this year.   I think it's a conscious decision that you as a business person, right -- put the creative aside for a moment -- well, keep the creative to know what you're worth, but also put on your business hat and really put yourself in the position. Here's what I'm going to do, and stick with it and try to just get past that fear. I think that's the biggest thing that stops the majority of us from raising our rates or charging what we're worth in the first place.   Lau: Yeah. I think you just have to do it. Like you have to go ahead and do it. Look, what's the worst that happens? It doesn't work.   Anne: They say no.   Lau: You can go back. You can go back, you can change your rates, make it lower. Like no one's holding you against a wall. You can do it, but you've gotta try it. I, this gets into negotiation, Anne, a little bit, but I would say it's very important to, once you give that number, once you give that fee, to stop talking. It's very important to give it, to have a sense of just like you would deliver copy and say, this is what we do for this investment company or for this healthcare. We help you, we give you health. This is what our fee is.   Anne: Mm-hmm. And then wait.   Lau: And then stop.   Anne: Then wait. Say nothing.   Lau: What do they say in sales? Like the first person who speaks loses.   Anne: Exactly, that's true.   Lau: Because our nature as caring people, many are artists I wanna say, but you know, we're the lowest, we're kind of cheap, and we're not gonna take, and to sort of justify and give excuses and tell you why we selected that fee -- don't do it. Don't succumb to that seductive force of wanting to explain or self-deprecate.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Or say, I shouldn't be doing this and I don't know why I'm doing this, but hopefully it works for you, and I hope you can do this. Don't do it. Don't do it.   Anne: Yeah basically --   Lau: Don't do it.   Anne: Here's my price. Let me know if it fits within your budget. And then I wait.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: If you start to pursue it or act desperate in any way, then that's negotiation skills. And I'm so glad in a way that I had to develop those early on because when I first got into the business, I waited a long time before I pursued an agent. And so, so until then I was negotiating for narration, you know, non-broadcast work. And so that gave me a lot of confidence. I could try things out, I tried rates out. And it's funny because people will ask me, well, what do you charge for this? And I'll be like, I pulled that right outta my butt. I pulled that number right outta my butt. But honestly, this's where it comes half the time because I've got a basis. But I don't necessarily know this client.   I try to validate the client first and see what other work they have and educate myself as much as possible and then give a number. And sometimes that number, there's no basis for that number other than it's just I took a benchmark and I priced it up a certain amount based upon my last experience. And basically it's all trial and error, and I've always left myself that window open for negotiation. And that experience has really, I think, educated me more than just about anything else in this industry, was the education of being able to negotiate.   And so for that you play a lot of games and you fight a lot of fear. And it takes just a few times for things to work in your favor. Always ask the client if they have a budget in mind, because that budget can also help you to gauge pricing. I asked a client once what their budget was, and they're like, oh, I can't spend more than $3,000 for this. And I'm like, whoa. That was like three times what I was gonna quote.   Lau: So much higher.   Anne: That was three times higher than I was gonna quote. And I said, I think I can work with that . So that sort of thing can really give you confidence to understand where your worth is and then also where you might price and where you might start to raise your rates. So every year I say, take a look at what you're charging people, 'cause I have a base guideline, and by the way, I don't advertise it at all. I think that it used to be a thing where some people advertised their rates, and I think in that kind of a tactic, it's almost like if you're gonna advertise your rates, you're looking to get people who are trying to get the lowest cost. Here's my rates, I'll do a commercial for $100, or you know, a 60-second commercial for $100. And I think if you're gonna do that, then you're playing the wrong game there. You're playing the lowest bid wins, and you've kind of limited yourself in terms of profit that you can make by publishing your rates. So it's more of a custom boutique service if you say, contact me or if you're interested, here are my demos. If you're interested, contact me and then start the conversation.   Lau: And that's exactly why it's important to stay quiet as much as you speak, because you're gonna pick up the cues of what that client is saying to you and you're gonna make your quick notes so that in your brain you can say, oh I can go hide her. I didn't realize that. Or I'm way too high. Am I willing to lose this client? Like you can start that conversation, that inner monologue going, if you're listening to the cues that are coming in.   And there was one more point I wanted to make 'cause you said something so cool and that was about control yourself. Like control your emotions, control how you react to things. Here's the psychology of selling. Is that like nothing should get me upset is the truth. Everything should be objectified just enough so that whatever comes out of them is not really about me. They're talking about my business. So they're not -- so I'm not just like an actor. It's like if I don't get the job, it's not really about me, it's about what I'm offering is not really right for that role. Well, it's the same in business. They're not really talking about me. 'Cause guess what? They don't know me and they don't know me at all. I'm a stranger. They're talking about their perception of this whole business that they may not know anything about. Or they may have had a, a big history, they may have been burned, who knows?   Like we don't know when they come in the room, what they've been through. They may have been through a lot. So you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that if they get irritated or angry or if they treat you inappropriately, you have to understand that they're coming in with a history. But don't fall into it yourself. Like we used to say in training, leave your trash at the door. You know what I mean? Like you, well you can pick it up on your way out, but don't put it in someone else's court. Because you lose your power when you do that. You talk about superpowers, it renders you incapable of diplomacy and neutralization, when you start to say, how could he say that about me? Or how could he downgrade me like that or whatever, you know?   Anne: That's what it is. I think part of it is the emotional aspect of it and keep the emotions out of the business. Take it out.   Lau: Take it out, take it out.   Anne: It's so hard for us because our product is so personal to us. It is our voice. It is who we are. It is our brand. And so when we get treated by a potential client and them, I guess, diminishing our worth in terms of no, I can't pay that. Or no, that's not in our budget, we have to not take that personally because it's not about us; it's about business.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And some clients literally don't have the budget and we have to just accept that and not be offended, not be angry.   Lau: Mm-Hmm. And isn't it okay, Anne, that they don't want it, they don't like it, they don't agree with it? It's still a free country. You know what I mean? It's like they have a right to not think that's fair or to not wanna put the money into it. They have a right to do anything they wanna do. One technique that I use that I found just for my own sake, that preserves me in the process is whatever happens in terms of the fee structure and the negotiation and the chit chat, I always immediately redirect. If I hear something negative coming out, I immediately affirm it. I hear it, I hear you. And then I redirect it onto something positive, and nine times outta ten, it works really well.   So like for instance, I say, oh, my fee is this for whatever, for a demo. And they go, oh my God, that's expensive. And I'll say, well, you know, it's an investment. You're, you're investing in your future, whatever. And they'll say, well, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Let me think about that. I'll say, great, think about it. I'm here for you when you come back. And in the meantime, I appreciate you sharing your story with me. That was valuable to me. And they go, well, thank you. That's sweet of you to say that. And then the conversation is redirected. And I mean that, I'm not just saying it as a sales tactic. I mean it from Lau that I'm gonna walk away saying I may or may not close a client. But I heard a really interesting story and I learned something from that conversation, and now I know something about what I can't do or what I can't do.   And so you have to have your takeaways too from the selling process. It's not just about the number, it's about I'm constantly reevaluating my own worth, reevaluating my own value, reevaluating how I view the business and perceive the human contact. And that's worth its weight and gold. Right? .   Anne: Well, it's so funny that you say that. And I have multiple aspects of my business where I, I, I mean, it's not just about voiceover clients. I have coaching clients, I have demo clients, I have VO Peeps memberships, I have VO BOSS marketing that I sell to people. And I'm constantly having to, if people are like, well, they're on a subscription, and they decide that -- end of year, it's always the time when people reevaluate their expenses and they're saying, well, was it worth it or was it not? And so whenever I get those emails saying, well, I'm looking to cancel because you know, I'm not seeing the value, I will always have, thank you so much for your feedback. I'm grateful for it. Here's my thought. Here's my thought. Think of this, think of that. And here's the value that we're providing, and we appreciate you and the value, and let us try to work something out. And I'll usually do that once.   And it's amazing how many times I can recoup someone by pointing out the value that they might have missed over the years or the month, or this is how we're bringing value to your brand. And so I think it's worth a shot rather than just saying, well, okay. I mean, I could just say okay and not care about it. But I'm always responding back with, thank you for your feedback. Thank you for your input. I appreciate that. I completely understand. It's hard at the end of the year for everyone. Here are some thoughts to consider.   Lau: Perfect.   Anne: And that is something that you can do for a client if you raise your rates with them. If they say no or they push back, you can say, thank you, I appreciate your feedback. And that's how you respond. Really, you have to just respond with grace. There's no other way really, and gratefulness for them being your client. But I say, yeah, stay firm with, here's my new rates. And I don't think that your rates should again, be outside of, you don't wanna go crazy and price yourself out of the market. I think that there's an acceptable range where you can raise your rates and it's not ridiculous. So I have vendors for me right now that are raising their rates and I have to figure out how I'm going to absorb that cost or raise my rates in return.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: But as voice talent, voice artist, voice actors, absolutely. I think it's worth at this point, or at whatever time, once a year to evaluate what you're charging and then consider whether it's time to raise your rates. Because we all need to progress. We all need to continue the profit, the economy, other things happen around us and we need to accommodate for that.   Lau: Yes. If you work on your plan, you work on your action plan for the year or for the quarter, you'll know what you wanna be grossing, you'll know what you wanna be taking in, and you'll know how close or how far away I am from that based on the rates that I'm charging right now and the volume that I deal with.   Anne: Look at the numbers, BOSSes. I know it's scary, but I think the first thing is look at the numbers. And I think that's probably the most scary thing for most of us, probably scarier than an audition or a gig that we really want. It's scarier to look at the numbers. What's your incoming, what's your outgoing, what are your rates now? And have the courage to step back, look at it, and raise those rates if you need to. So great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Anne, can I throw in one more thing for the road?   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Because. I just thought of this and I know you're like this and I know I'm like this. I think we care so much and that's why we get scared. If we didn't care --   Anne: Makes sense.   Lau: -- at all, we couldn't give a two hoots about what they think, whatever, we'll raise it sky high -- no, it's because we care and the good people deeply care about the people first. And so we're always regarding their feelings and how they view things and what, what makes life easier for them. And that's a wonderful trait to have. We just have to balance that with taking care of our selves as well.   Anne: Absolutely. Great point. Thank you, Lau. Oh, great topic. Absolutely great topic. And I think we all need to address it at one point during the year in our careers. So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect network and talk about money and rates like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want you to know about a chance where you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye!   Lau: See you then! Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

It's time to build some rapport. Anne & Lau share their tips for making quick connections + how to turn it into a meaningful relationship. The truth is, relationships are what drive our careers—and they can do more for us than just pay our bills. They can provide emotional support, professional connections, and even opportunities that we may not have otherwise had access to. In a world where the internet opens us up to millions of potential connections, building rapport is more important than ever. You share yourself online for a reason: to further connection! We're all so busy, and we know that it's hard to find the time for things like cultivating relationships. But trust me: if you're not building rapport with people, you're missing out on a huge opportunity…and we're here to show you how it's done. Listen up! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring back to the show Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau. Lau: Hey. Hey Anne. Anne: How are you? Lau: I'm fab. How are you? Anne: I am amazing. And I just wanna say again, thank you so much for doing this series with me. I really am loving all of the conversations that we're having. I mean, such amazing conversations. Lau: I love it. Anne: I feel like our relationship is just growing and we're nurturing it, and I just love it. And it makes me think about how important it is to network and to grow relationships in our businesses. And I thought it'd be a great topic to talk about today. Lau: Beautiful. And I'm always ready to talk about the superhero in everyone. Like, I love finding those superpowers, I know you do too, those hidden superpowers that are in all the VO talent that we meet work with. Anne: Absolutely. So there's a lot of ways I think, to network with potential clients or your clients and build relationships. What are your thoughts about when you're new to the industry? How do you start to even build a relationship with your potential client or reaching out to clients to develop a relationship? Or even let's say your agent, there's so many things we can talk about. Lau: That is the question of the day, isn't it? And that's a biggie that we all get, and it's hard to answer only in the sense that it's so large. It's so overwhelming. It's such a universal question. I always sort of break it down from the get-go, 'cause I feel like in my brain, if it's in small nuggets and little chunks, it's much easier to digest. So the first step for me is really defining what is the difference between building a rapport with a potential client or a producer or casting, and the difference between that and already having an established relationship. I think that many have to kind of go back to the drawing board with that and know what the difference is. I simply define it by saying, listen, building rapport is your instant connection. It's your instant impact. What is the effect that you're having on your listener, your audience, your potential client? And it happens really fast. It's like 10, 15 seconds. It's really starting to happen. And the evaluation process in our business is very quick, is that everyone well knows. It doesn't take forever to sort of sum someone up when I'm building rapport. So we have to consider that warm up period, that prep period of like, how do I wanna go into this meeting? How do I want to set a tone when I go to the conference? How do I want to prep and present when I'm walking into a space, even if it's an online space? Anne: Sure. Well, I was gonna say it can even be digitally as well, right? How you present yourself or have an initial outreach. Let's say even an email, so to speak, you're starting to try to reach out and build rapport with a potential client. And so it's really like an introduction of yourself and a reflection of who you are as a business. And so I think it's important to really maybe have a strategy on maybe how to do that, depending on who it is you're reaching out to. I would think that building rapport with, I think somebody new that you've never met before, let's say an agent or a potential client, would require some sort of a strategy that within, I would say 10 or 15 seconds, you can make an impression on someone in a positive way obviously. We've talked a little bit about, and I know on other podcasts, I've talked a little bit about cold emails, which it's really important how you introduce yourself so that you're not off putting to someone else or appearing to be, I think, to self-centered or too much about me, me, me or I, I, I, and I really believe to really start to develop a rapport with just about anyone, I think you have to come from a centered heart of service. You know what I mean? How can I help you? What can I do for you? If you wanna build, I think a positive rapport with a client and be authentic. What do you think? Lau: I think that's perfect. And, and our business is a business. It's like any other business out there. You know, I would say we never know who we're next to in the airplane or in the elevator, in the restroom or we're in life; we're living life. And so anyone we're near that is in our sphere could be a potential client. We have to always be thinking about that. Like, woo, how could I make an effect, an impact, impression on this stranger, so to speak, someone I don't know at all, and in a minute or two, all of a sudden we have an instant connection. So there is sort of like a magic there. There's a mystical piece in there that you have to make happen. Like you have to take agency for saying, I am going to assert that I'm not going to wait. Anne: I love that you said that. I think honestly, if I wanna think about our relationship, right, I met you for the first time when we were on a judging panel together. It's like literally we were in a professional environment on a panel, and I was so impressed with you. And I was like, immediately, I'm like, oh, I have to meet this woman. I mean, and I just felt, I did feel like an instant connection. And I think a lot of that has to do with maybe similar personalities. But the first thing I did was reach out to you, and I'm not just saying, oh my God, this was, you know, oh, I saved the day or I did, you know -- no I reached out with, because I was so impressed and I genuinely said, oh my gosh, I really wanna meet you. And let's talk because I just think you're amazing. And I think that's something that you can think about as a business if you wanna reach out to someone like a potential client. Oh my gosh, I love your product. Or I've seen the work that you've done, and I think it's amazing. That's like kind of a good way to build, I think, strong rapport with someone. Lau: Absolutely. You know, what's amazing too, is that we were online, like many are online. We were online. Here's the fascinating thing. We didn't know each other at all and we hadn't met and we didn't even speak to each other. And yet I think we could feel something, that energy shift, and you and I couldn't move fast enough. I don't remember if I emailed you or you may emailed me, but we literally were on that same wavelength -- oh, have to connect, have to connect, and, and within a day or so we were connected. And then I feel like I have known you for years. Like I literally -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- we haven't met in person. You're in San Diego area and I'm, I'm in the Boston area, and we're 3000 miles apart. And yet we can still have that mysterious energy through building rapport together. So it really is quite impactful. And it shouldn't be underestimated at all, how you can build -- it could be a one time exchange or it could be a lifetime of moving into the relationship space together. Anne: And then developing and nurturing that relationship as you go on. And it's interesting 'cause it made me think, I started off by saying even digitally, right, we can create rapport with someone that could be a potential client of our business. Also the way you present yourself online in public. Right? And we can talk about in person as well, but online, if you are putting out content, which so many people, you know, in this business, we say, you gotta get out there on social media. You gotta put out content. Let people understand who you are and your brand. When you are doing that, when you are putting content out, you are theoretically, I'm gonna say building the blocks for building a relationship with a potential client. So things that you're saying online or putting out there, I think you have to also be a little bit careful about because potential eyeballs are on that content. And so if you're going to be saying, I don't know, things that may be negative or combative or maybe very controversial, remember that there are other people that you may not even be aware that have their eyeballs on that. And that could build maybe a negative rapport. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: If you're not careful. I think that assuming, I guess I'm gonna go in the digital realm, assuming that what you say is only seen by the people you think. I mean, I think it goes a lot further than most of us even realize. Lau: Right. And I, I think you identified something so pivotal in the, the differentiation between a rapport and already establishing relationship. Which I like to think of simply as it's based on time and based on trust. We may have a very strong rapport together, very, very connected, but we don't have time on our side. I'm not talking about you and I. I'm talking about in the general business world, we don't really know each other well enough. It's only through action over time do we get to know what our value system is, what our principles are, how we work, how we function -- that takes time to unfold. So the stronger your rapport, I'd like to believe the quicker you can start building a relationship together because -- Anne: I like that. Lau: -- the masks start coming down, you start to reveal more. There aren't as many filters on because you're slowly developing some trust together, and that's incredible, but we can't always expect that. It just isn't always going to happen. Anne: Right. And a client that you've developed that, you've got a good rapport and that over time you've developed that trust -- I think when a client trusts you, that's when they come back to you again and again and again, and that is what can help to really grow our businesses. And I think each one of these relationships is something that you have to consciously really think about and nurture and work at it. I don't think it's something that you can take for granted at all. I know that I don't take any of my clients, my jobs for granted. I'm grateful for all of them. And I think coming at it with an attitude of gratitude also helps to nurture that relationship and, and build trust. I think trust is so very important to establish over the long haul with your potential clients or, or people that you're working with in the industry. For sure. Lau: Right. And I like to say too, it's a feel good kind of thing to create because not only is it important to have over time to retain a client and to make money and have a viable career and get your ROI, but also it feels good. It should feel good to know that I am delivering something that someone needs and is satisfied within their timeline. And that they are going to come back to me. And there is that reciprocal kind of energy that is a part of the reason why we're in this industry, is that we want to know we're satisfying. We want to know we're pleasing. We want to know filling, filling the need, solving that problem -- Anne: That we're loved. Lau: -- so to speak Well kinda. Anne: Right? Don't we all just wanna be loved? I used to say that all the time in the corporate world, right? Part of the reason why I think so many people, at least when I was going through the corporate world, were so stuck in your jobs and you feel like, ugh, I'm stagnant at moving. I think it's, we just wanna be loved. We just wanna be appreciated for what we do and for us to have some acknowledgement of that. And then when that happens, then it becomes a very reciprocal, mutual give, take, give, take relationship. And so it's really not any different in our own businesses. Lau: It really isn't. And if someone does for you, Anne, a live testimonial or they record it for you, they say, Anne is great. She gave me this and I'll never forget her. And I love her -- It's obviously marketing power to do that, to have your case study, to have your testimonial. But when you look at that, when you play that for yourself a year later -- and I can't speak for you, I'm speaking for myself -- there's this innate, deep sense of satisfaction that I may or may not remember what they paid me, but I absolutely remember the experience of working with them. Anne: Yes. Lau: And that, that is their outcome. And that we made something that is immaterial, so to speak, real. We made it real. I think there's a surreal nature to what we do, 'cause it's not always time, a physical product. A demo is a physical product. But other than that, it's more exchange and process and craft and acting. It's hard to come down to qualify what that is exactly. And then when you hear it from that client or that talent, I mean, I'm getting a little verklempt right now. I'm telling you, like I kind of wanna cry right now because it is life changing. You've helped them find their sound, their voice, their identity -- Anne: Oh, absolutely. Lau: It's just awesome. It's awesome. Anne: It brings me back to my teaching days as well, you know, with my students. I mean, I got to help shape some of their lives as they were being educated and going through school and I've watched them grow up. And it becomes one of those things where it's like, ah, it's just such a feel good heart situation. And I think that that really means a whole lot when it comes to doing something that brings us joy. And so, you know, developing, nurturing those relationships that can really give back in a way that's more than just money. Right? We talked about in our, one of our last episodes, businesses with purpose. Well, I think that feeds into it really well. And part of the purpose is to, I think, develop a good rapport, those good relationships. Now online -- I started off by kind of talking about it online -- I think in person just accentuates the relationship building or accelerates the relationship building because then you've got that, you know, we're looking at each other in -- on a video right now and, and we're hearing each other, but when we actually get to physically meet each other, then there's that other energy. And so I think when you're trying to develop a rapport with someone that maybe you're just meeting at a conference -- there's so many of the voiceover conferences these days now -- it's important to also have that physical rapport, developing a physical rapport with people that is, I think, open and embracing opportunity to meet and really share with other people. Lau: Absolutely. I do think the brilliance of being online now, if you never get to meet your other party in person in a room, which many of us just can't. You know, we live too far from each other. We're never gonna unfortunately see each other in a room. It's incredible to think, my gosh, I am developing a whole relationship with this person online, and we've never been in a room together. And it reminds me of how some of us feel about some of our A-list movie stars or some of our A-list pop stars. Am I really gonna be in a room with Tom Hanks in this lifetime? Probably not. I hope so, but probably not. Can I feel like I have a strong relationship with him over the years of supporting his work? Anne: Sure. Lau: Of connecting with his characters, of loving what he has to say? Yes. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And so sometimes that just has to be enough and it's the, the digital relationship, the online relationship that we can connect with that has to go as far as it can go, because we're just never gonna see those clients in person. Anne: And that becomes some of my wonderful colleagues who are in animated series or in video games that are beloved and have fans that are out there that the same kind of thing that have developed a, a relationship. I just watched the movie Elvis last night. So that whole thing just kind of, it makes a difference what you're putting out there. Now here's the question, because sometimes I feel that what you're putting out there digitally and/or even online with, through video or even in person, can there be too much, can you share too much? Can there be a place where maybe in a professional business, we've gone too far and overshared? What are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. That's the question of the day, honestly. I really do think the more I learn about online media, the more I'm learning that that can be personal, but it can also be generational. Because we have millennials and up and coming Gen-Zers who are digital natives who grow up with that in their hands and share every and everyone else, every single moment of their day and will contextually mix that in with their businesses. And that heightened level of personalization is not only accepted, but expected. For me, I find it jarring, to be honest with you. Like, I don't necessarily wanna report what kind of eggs I'm having in the morning. I just don't but I've had some of my audiences, including like my own children go, okay. But just so you know, like we care about that. We kind of wanna know. It's not irrelevant to us. That's like part of you, and if we're gonna work with you, then we kind of wanna know that. So it, to me, that's a lot of generational gap in there. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you, so I guess personality-wise, I've always been kind of an open book. I was always the talker, and I think a lot of voice artists, maybe those people, the talkers in the family. But I've never necessarily had an issue sharing with people. But I also think that I'm strategic when I share and where I share. And I think that when I'm looking online, when I see a share that might be a little, I don't know, maybe a little TMI or a little -- Lau: Little provocative. Anne: And I wonder how does that fare with your potential client? And again, because you might have a millennial that hires you, and I get that. And they wanna see or feel, or hear an authentic you. So when I put myself out there, I mean, I try to be as authentic as possible. I mean, and when I'm talking on the VO BOSS podcast, I'm pretty darn authentic, but it doesn't mean that I always have to be like every single minute of the day overly authentic, because I think that I have certain clients that may not want to know certain things about me. Because it would affect whether they would hire me or not. And I think that's the biggest question, right? If I share too much or if I have, let's say I'm distressed and I'm sharing that I'm distressed on a day that maybe I'm supposed to be doing a live session with one of my potential clients, right? And now they understand maybe that was why the session didn't go so well. Or maybe because they already know so much about me that maybe they won't hire me again, right? Because it affected me to the point where my performance was affected. I don't know if I had a bad day and you know, I'm sharing it and I share a lot, and I have that potential client, maybe they're not gonna wanna work with me after that. Lau: That's the risk we take. I mean, can't please everyone all the time, you know? I mean -- Anne: Yeah, that's true. Lau: -- the truth is what pleases one audience is just going to maybe repulse another audience. And I think the more we can pivot and shift and switch up to different audiences is just about the best that we can do. But I'd rather be pliable a little bit. Like I don't wanna be that person that says, oh, I'm 40, I'm 50, I'm 60. And this is the way I do things. And I'm not open to anything else because this is my people and this is -- I kind of wanna be able to relate to different generations. I wanna be able to meet people where they're at, even if I'm not great at their level of -- their mode communication, I want, I wanna be perceived as someone who is trying and who cares about it and who wants to reach them and what they need, which is gonna be very different needs than what someone who's 20 or 30 years their senior is going to be. So I like that flexibility. That's what I'm trying to say. I think in networking and in building rapport and deepening relationships, the more flexible you are -- I would say, think of your relationships as like an architect. If you had a beautiful building, it was a very tall skyscraper type of building, how does that fare in a city like Tokyo or San Francisco, that's getting earthquakes all the time? We're getting conflict all -- in problems all the time. We have to have a super concrete, strong foundation. And then the higher up we go, we have to be able to flex in the winds. We have to be able to literally blow back and forth. And I like to think of us as business people and as networkers, as people that have very sturdy foundations, but that can flex with our clients and, and mold and different directions, you know? Anne: I love that. Yeah, I love that analogy. That's just a wonderful analogy. So let's talk about a lot of conferences are popping up, and especially now I'm noticing a lot of them. And we were talking about it earlier. I think everybody's ready to get out there after the pandemic -- I say after the pandemic, I mean, I don't even know how to define it anymore. I just know that everybody, I think after two and a half years of this is ready to just get out and hug people or see people and get that physical connection, which I can completely understand. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna be going out a couple times this year to conferences. And so in terms of, let's say building a rapport or even nurturing a relationship, maybe you're gonna meet somebody finally -- I'm gonna meet somebody at one of these conferences that I've been working with for two and a half years -- what kind of tips do you have for building rapport? Or what would you do in terms of in-person networking tips that we can give the BOSSes out there? Lau: All right. Let's talk. I mean, there's some of them that are fairly simple that you and I have seen over and over and over again, mishaps. Like for instance, how many times have we gone to a conference or a networking event and we're meeting people and they have no business cards? They just, oh, I'm sorry. I have nothing to give you. I ran out. I forgot them. I -- whatever it sounds so insanely simple. And yet having something on you that is hard copy, that is old school hard copy like a business card still is pro, still is a professional rapport building tool rather than just writing it down on a notebook or piece of paper. Anne: I wanna make a point, 'cause I am gonna go to this conference coming up in, in October. And I said to my husband, I said, 'cause my husband does events at shows. And I said, so do people still use business cards? He goes, oh my God, yes. 'Cause I was like, or do I use like here scan my QR code? You know, digital? Now I wanna say that usually there's an app that goes in a conference that you join the app and then you can put all your contact information in the app and then share it with other people. I think being able to have both, I love the touch feel. It's again, like why do we still have books? Because I love to touch and feel the books. And I think we are gonna be appeasing anybody that we might meet again, like you said, we, we're gonna be flexible. I think have both. Make sure you're logged on to that app, have your contact information. You can share it that way, or have that touchy feel business card. And I think that that really would be a great way to, to be prepared. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get business cards and refresh my business cards now. And I do like the touchy feel. Lau: I do too. Anne: Take it outta my wallet. Lau: I do too. Anne: I remember, gosh, back before it used to be like scan my QR code or here's an app for the conference, It used to be a thing. You must have cards. And we would all be like, oh my God, you don't have your business cards at this conference? You really need to have a business card if you wanna be considered a professional. So now I think if you can kind of be flexible and have both available, I think that's a good way to prepare. Lau: Yeah, I agree totally. And I also don't wanna alienate a potential friend, client, contact because they're just not techy. Like they don't do the scanning thing. They don't know much about it. They're not into it, but they're brilliant. And they like run a great business. You know what I mean? So I don't wanna be the one that makes them feel out of it, out of the scene because they don't know how to do that for instance, that would be one reason to have plan for sure. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I also wanted to point out like prepare how you want to enter the space. I think a lot of folks just kind of run in, and they're stressed out, and they're running late and they're, they're just there. Think about, you know, I always like to say, visualize the room, visualize the room. Who will be in there? You should be able to see many people who will be in there before the event actually happens to have an idea of the caliber of folks that are coming in, what the presentations are, so forth and so on. But think about the traffic. What kind of traffic may be coming in? Who are the people that you want to target in terms of your, your perfect client, your perfect connection? And really make a list, like jot it down, you know, make notes in your phone, however you do it, so that you walk in and you have a strategy in mind -- Anne: And you're prepared. Lau: You said that earlier, you're prepared. You're not just kind of floating around and seeing who comes to you and who -- you are really kind of assertive, 'cause you only have a certain amount of time. Even if it's a two or three day conference, you're gonna wanna sit in on shows and webinars, seminars. And you're gonna -- time gets eaten up very fast at those events. And there's oftentimes a lot to seen a lot to do. So map it out, have a strategy in mind, say, I wanna meet these three people? Who are they, and really have that ready to go. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Now here's a question which I know a bunch of people, if they are at a conference, and there are agents or casting directors there, what do you consider appropriate for people that come up to you and introduce themselves because they might wanna be represented by you? 'Cause that's a tough one. Sometimes people will not go up because they're timid or people will go up and be overbearing. So what is your advice for that as an agent or a casting director in terms of what do you consider to be professional? Lau: That's an interesting question. I honestly have not to been to many conferences in person since COVID to really -- when you're on online, you know, you're sort of protected. The automatic digital boundaries already there. So you're kind of protected by that. Whereas in person, I haven't really experienced that, but I'm gonna imagine there's a groupie thing that goes on. There's a groupie mentality. Like if I were to see some of my favorite people like Rob Paulson or Debbie Derryberry -- I mean, I have relationships with them, but if I didn't, I wouldn't wanna run up and like crowd them and be in their space. I'd wanna pay attention to protocol, pay attention to structure. So there are very specific protocols and structures when you go to those events where you're gonna see them on a panel or you're gonna see them where they stand in a line and you're gonna take a photo with them or whatever. Okay, agents are very similar in that. Oftentimes they're in a workshop or a panel or they're invited guests. And if they're not in a structured setting where you're gonna ask them questions, there's a Q and A, you can talk to them, I wouldn't recommend running up to agents or casting and like smothering them. Anne: Right. And giving them a demo or giving them your contact. And I think again, you have to kind of go like, well, approach them as to like, what do you know about them? And I always say approach was not the I, I, I, me, me, me, but about, oh my goodness. I have another voice actor that I'm friends with. And they've talked to me about how wonderful you are and I really appreciate meeting you. And that's it, nothing like, I don't don't think pressing like, are you accepting new -- I feel like that's just almost too much sometimes. Unless you've got the indication from the agent that they're looking for more people to put on their roster. Lau: Right. Anne: I don't know. It's read the room. Lau: Read the room, read the room. And oftentimes they're there for a reason. Like they're there not just to educate you, but to find people. They're there to field new talent for their roster. Oftentimes it's like innate, that's the reason why they're there. So don't crowd them. What you wanna do is you wanna listen to what they have to say, take notes on what they have to say, refer to what they have to say and follow their contact information that they provide to you, and that day, like I wouldn't wait -- we talked about windows of time -- that day, while you're at the conference, go to a spot -- Anne: I really enjoyed your presentation. I really, yeah. Lau: Boy. Yeah. Yeah. I just sat in. And when you talked about this, I was really impressed. Anne: I love it. Lau: I'm a talent I'm seeking representation. It's wonderful to hear you. That's it. I wouldn't do more than that because you don't need need to. Right? You, remember you don't have a relationship. You're building rapport. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. Great discussion today. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. So I am going to say thank you so much, Lau, for today's conversation, and BOSSes out there, you can have a simple mission, but yet a big impact: 100 voices, one hour, $10,000, four times a year. If you wanna find out more, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to join. Also big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network and build rapport like BOSSes. Find out more at iptdl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Lau: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you feeling the energy of newness & hope that we do? Anne & Lau are getting ready for the new year and all that comes with it. Before you jump to goal setting, take a minute to think about what has happened this year & what you want to create next. Reflecting on your accomplishments is an empowering exercise that can help you feel successful & inspired. It is also essential to take a look at the industry as it is now & research any predictions about the near future. Understanding the demands of the industry will help you build your goals and business plans around what will serve the current market. Now BOSSES, it is time to goal set. Think big, but not unrealistic…and if you need help, listen up because Anne & Lau have your back. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so happy to have back to the show the one and only Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey, I love how you took a breath before you said my name. Yay. Anne: I did . You deserve that extra drama, that extra drama pause. So. Lau: Thank you. I love that. Anne: Awesome. Well, you know Lau, it is coming to a close, the year of 2022. Lau: Unbelievable. Anne: Yeah. And of course 2023, with that comes the new year, resolutions, goals, all those good things. And I think I wanna kind of take a step back and not just talk about 2023, but I wanna reimagine what your business and what the BOSSes out there, reimagine what your businesses could look like in 2023, maybe in a little different light this year. Because I think, I feel like people are feeling more comfortable now. They're getting out, they're seeing each other. I think there's a lot of hope and renewal in the air. I mean, I'm feeling it. And for me, I've taken a look at what's going on this past year and the industry and how it's shifting. And I think we really need to take a good look at our businesses to see how we can maybe shift and evolve and reimagine our businesses in the new year. Lau: Mm. No question about it. And this is the best time. I'm always saying, you're winding down. You're tying up loose ends. You're excited about any holidays that are happening. And even if you don't celebrate holidays, it gives you permission that everyone else is to just relax, be with family, take it easy, but then also to plan. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: To think about quarter one in the new year, where do you wanna be? Who do you wanna be? And what does your vision look like of your business? Anne: Yeah. Lau: That's exciting. I love that time. Anne: It's so exciting. I mean, and I really like to have that time to reflect. And I'll tell you what, you and I, we are soul sisters, right? We work, work, work, work, work. And the other day I literally, I had to go to a doctor's appointment. Maybe not the most fun thing in the world, but it got me into the car. And it got me on a long ride 'cause there was traffic. And I actually really like that. And I miss that in a way because whenever I would drive, I was able to think, right? Because I can't be typing at my computer. I have to just sit there and think. And I came to the realization, Lau, that I have been in business for myself for 15 years. Lau: Wow. Anne: And you think I would've thought about that before. I mean, I kind of knew it, but I just, it hit me all of a sudden. Lau: Awesome, awesome. Anne: Wow. That is something to be proud of. And I know you have been in business just about as long as I have. Lau: Mm-hmm. Anne: Full-time, your own business. And I think that number one, before any BOSSes start to think about what they are going to do next year, right, and create goals, I think you should stop, reflect, and give yourself credit and realize your accomplishments that you have so far. Because that, I think gives you a great baseline to jumpstart a new year. Lau: Absolutely. And you know, I was thinking about you saying that you were in the car, and that's that autonomic thing in your brain that you know how to drive the car. You don't have to think about it. So you can go into your imagination, you can go into processing things, and you've got the privacy. You're alone. And here's the thing, we're moving forward. Most of the time, unless we're sitting at a light or backing up, we're moving forward. So if you drive, if you bike, if you walk and you're moving forward, and you're thinking about your life, think about your business as moving forward. You've got this kinesthetic energy that's happening as you're thinking about what's to come. Anne: Mm-hmm. Lau: And we're meant to be in action. I know I'm one of those people, Anne, and I know you are as well, that I am better about working and getting things done when I'm in action. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Lau: I'm not as good on the outside of it. I'm better on the inside of it. Anne: Well, you know what else too, when I am though, in that moment where I can be quiet and reflect, I also like to watch or listen to other creative things so that I can learn and be inspired. And so, believe it or not, I was listening to another podcast, and it wasn't anything to do with voiceover, and it didn't even have to do with business, but it was people in the creative arts. And when I listen to them banter back and forth about what they do on a day-to-day basis, or that maybe they're interviewing somebody that's in television or the movies, and it always gets me thinking outside of my bubble. I really think that most of us voice talent. We stay in this bubble, this safe, comfortable bubble of, this is my industry, this is what I know, and this is how I need to go forward. These are the steps that other people in my industry have told me. And I think that you really need to step outside of that once in a while to get creative inspiration. Like I love watching good movies. I love listening to new music. I love listening to anybody in the creative arts talking about their career or what they do to inspire themselves or to get ahead or to grow themselves or their business. That inspires me and gives my business new ideas. Lau: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm right there with you. And just last night I was watching a program on PBS about the American Musical Theater. Anne: Mm-hmm. Lau: And the Jewish influence on that thematically, like the Jewish people that are coming in and influencing that. And they talked to Mel Brooks, and they talked to Stephen Sondheim and they talked, and here's the theme. They came up with. The great musicals were all revolving around hope and joy and happiness, you know, "Put on a happy face" and "Singing in the rain" and all. And I'm telling you, I was crying my eyes out with joy. I was crying my eyes out because I wanted to remember that what we do in our industry should be around joy rather than around negative. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You know, we can still have agendas, we can still have purposes that are serious, that we really care about. We wanna uplift and we want to support, but overall, I know I wanna have a joyous outlook about myself, my business, my clients. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: My world. I want, I wanna go in with the upward mobility rather than downward. Anne: Yeah. Upward. And along those same lines is really understanding what it is that you do and how you contribute to the world and society and within your business. And I think that we talk about this all the time, know your worth, know your worth. But I think we, we talk about it in terms of just knowing your worth in terms of what do I charge? Right? What do I charge for this voiceover job? I want you to think broader and grander than that. Like, how does my voice fit into the very small piece of the pie that can affect people on grand levels? Do you know what I mean? My voice that fits into a documentary or something that's uplifting, or a meditation or, or however that works in a creative, entertaining spot. How does that fit in? And how does it overall affect not just you and your business, but society and the world? And when I think you start to realize where that sits, you start to value yourself and your business even more. And that helps you to create even grander goals that can be achievable, not grand goals that are not achievable. It gives you inspiration that you can achieve this. Lau: Yes. And that there is an outcome that you are responsible for. And the outcome is surrounded by impact. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: Like what kind of impact and outcome does your audience, your client base, the people who surround you, what are they going to feel? What's the affect? What are they going to learn? What's your logos and education around what you bring to them? And how will they be persuaded? You know, like how will they move in a direction or a new direction based on what you're giving to them and offering them, which is you're offering them value. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You're really giving value. So it's not just about setting your rates and setting your pricing. Anne: Sure. Lau: It's about saying, take a step back. What value am I really giving to them? And how long lasting is that value? Anne: I totally agree with you. And so in looking, I think, BOSSes, before you start to make those goals for 2023, and you start reimagining, start taking a look at what you do now and start looking beyond just the surface of -- for me, for example, I don't necessarily do documentaries every day of my life or impactful commercials every day of my life, but I do voiceover every day of my life. And every single piece that I do voiceover for every single piece of copy has a meaning and has an impact to someone out there. And I think we don't often look beyond the words. Right? And the end of the job and the paycheck. I think we really have to say, what is it that we are contributing? And also, I think if you are really thinking about the overall impact, it's gonna help you with your performance as well. Your performance is gonna mean more artistically. And also, again, I think everything just falls into place because again, as I was mentioning before, if we look at the evolution of this industry and how things are changing and evolving, technology, it keeps coming. Right? It keeps coming. There is the potential for a large amount of disruption in our industry because of technology. If you remember, I think the first was home studios and then ISDN, right? Or ISDN, that was a technology that led to home studios. And then home studios led to more and more people in the industry. And then after that, I'm thinking, what else is changing in the industry? Online casting sites, right? Pay to plays. That was technology that, it disrupted our industry. And technology, by the way, doesn't just disrupt our industry. Technology disrupts every industry. And again, there's another movement for, I'm gonna say it, synthetic voices. And I know that people don't wanna hear that, but yet it is coming. And so as businesses and when we are trying to imagine our business moving forward, we need to be aware. We need to keep our eyes open. And we also need to think that if synthetic voices are coming, we need to be even more human in our craft. Right? Even more human, to make the impact to differentiate ourselves from the other product that may be coming. And also possibly consider having an additional product in your service. Right? Maybe a human voice. Well, obviously a human voice, right? But maybe think about how a synthetic voice might play into your business. I'm not gonna say that I am out there taking away jobs, but I'll tell you what, they're not gonna stop for me. . Lau: Exactly. Anne: And so for me, I wanna hone my craft so that I can give as much human Anne to my performance and make an impact with that as I can. And so that gives me lots of goals for next year, lots of goals. Lau: Tons of goals. It's never ending goals. And I think there's the nature of human beings, not just in our industry, but to sort of have resistance against change. Anne: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lau: Like anything that looks scary, unknown, change -- will that take my job? Will that take my value away? Will that take my worth away? Well, our job, I think as human beings is to say, no, I have to re-envision what my value and what my place is, and then I have to offer that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: If I sit back and I put up the resistance wall and I become super toxic, and start low talking everything and downgrading everything -- listen, as you said, it's not gonna change because I'm upset about it. Trust me on that. Anne: Exactly. Yeah. Lau: So when in Rome -- like you have to figure out, how do I carve out my business and rearrange that to fit the new waves that are happening in the industry? And if you really look closely, there's going to be positives. There's going to be pros, there's going to be great stuff. And then there, there will be cons too. Anne: Yeah. Lau: So I always found like you, I need to stay positive about it and really do the due diligence of figuring out how do I swim in this market? What do I have to offer? And what do I need to change and re-envision in order to still fit into the industry? Anne: Right. And I think it's important, again, just to reiterate with some different words, but saying the same thing, it is the market. We are a business who provides a product to a market, and we need to pay attention to that market. I can't just be a voice actor and say, but I have an amazing voice. Hire me. Lau: Right. Anne: It doesn't matter how great my voice is if the market is not demanding it. Right? And that's just business 101. You have to understand what the market is looking for, and then as a business, offer something that will serve that market. Lau: Yeah. I mean, if it's any consolation and you view it all as a commodity, and that we are a product, in essence, go out and look at every single product on the market from an Apple computer to Tide soap to your car, to your house, whatever. It doesn't stay the same. It's all new. It's improved. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You've got new ingredients, you've got new packaging, you've got environmentally friendly, you've got da, da da, da, da. It just doesn't stay the same. Like, I'm this laundry detergent and it's good. And take it or leave it. It doesn't stay that way. It has to change with the mindset, the vision, and also the generational influences. It has to shift and change to appeal to those target demographics. And it doesn't mean that it's not good anymore. It means that it needs to move in the direction where that audience figures out what the value is. Anne: We can't, "get off my lawn!" We can't do that. Lau: No, no. Anne: We just, we just can't -- we may be getting older. And it's interesting because as I -- Lau: What are you doing on my lawn? Anne: Get off my lawn. Lau: Get off. Anne: As I mentioned, I've been in the industry for 15 years. I have seen a lot of change. Lau: Anne: Again, when I mentioned when I started home studio was just a thought. Lau: Yeah. Anne: It wasn't a requirement. Online casting sites hadn't begun yet. And really, if you're not, again, watching and looking and educating yourself, you're not gonna be able to move forward. Your business is not gonna be able to move forward. So if you're a voice artist and you love what you do, and you wanna remain a voice artist, then I think you definitely need to take some time. And this time of the year is a great time to do it. If you haven't been writing down your accomplishments -- So I'm gonna say before you write down goals, I have a wonderful planner that I write down weekly, daily accomplishments, things that I've done. And it's something that, a place that I can go to look back at. And it gives me a nice benchmark to say, oh yeah, you know what? If I'm feeling down and I feel like, oh, it's a slow week and what's going on, I don't feel like I'm making any progress -- I can go look at things that I've written down and say, wow, you know what? Like the epiphany that 15 years, wow. That's something to be proud of. Lau: Look how much you did. It's very easy to forget about it and brush it aside when you're busy and stressed about the up and coming projects. But when you really take the time to look back on everything, oh my goodness, you go, did I do that? Oh, . It's incredible. And you should be proud of that. Like you should take the time to celebrate it. Take the time to really go, oh my God, that's me. I did that. Like I always say, we're the alchemists thinking about creating a business out of nothing. Anne: Right. Lau: There's nothing there. It's air. And then you fill it with a thought and you conceive it, and then you start to plan it, and then you start to execute it. And then when you do it, you go, oh yeah, I just did it. It wasn't a big deal. Yeah. I got to do -- well, you forgot about the whole process -- Anne: It was a big deal. Lau: -- leading up to it. Anne: Exactly. Mm-Hmm. Lau: A huge deal getting there. Anne: It's interesting, as I was thinking about that, I'm also writing like, what are the biggest myths about starting a business in the voiceover industry? And one of the biggest myths is that you're born to be a business person or born to be an entrepreneur. And I think I'm the first one to negate that because I wasn't born to be an entrepreneur. I learned everything as I was going along. And so in reality, that's an accomplishment. Lau: Oh yeah. I don't even know anyone who, even if they're born into families of entrepreneurs and they're studying in an entrepreneurial, you know, MBA track, they're not naturals at it oftentimes. They have to learn, they have to absorb, they have to be in the surrounding, they have to be in the mindset, the thought process. And that's not even to say, are they brave? Like, do they, they have that risk taking, that calculated risk taking thing. Are they willing to work really hard? Are they creative? Do they have a creative brain? I mean, that's all stuff that is part of your makeup, part of your chemistry. But you have to have the exposure, the teachings, the environment to help cultivate all that. Anne: BOSSes out there, if you haven't already gotten a pen and paper and started writing down these accomplishments -- because if you are here, if you are in the industry, if you've started your business, that is an accomplishment. And that is something to jumpstart, springboard off that for reimagining your next year. And I've got some, you know, hefty plans for myself, more so than I think I did this past year. I mean, I always like to think big, but this year I'm really starting to evolve and change, and I think get off my lawn kind of talk. I have been planning for my retirement for the last five years. The wheels have been turning. I wanna make passive income so that when I retire, I can travel and I don't have to be taking my mic everywhere with me and enjoy my retirement. So I've always been planning year after year after year, what can I do? How can I evolve my business? How can I grow it? And part of that is sitting down and looking at my accomplishments and then figuring out what new things do I wanna do for this next year? And I think because I've seen a bigger change in the industry this year, more things out in the industry that are affecting the industry and trends and where they're going -- and I think next year I want to be able to offer more to my clients. And so I'm going to have to really dig deep and figure out what parts of my business do I wanna change? Do I want to upgrade? Do I want to, I can't be Anne Ganguzza more than 24 hours a day. I just don't have the time. And so now I've gotta really figure out a new way to rework the business so it's more efficient. And I can put more of my, I guess I wanna say my genuine self into it and not have to spend hours doing things that maybe I can outsource or have another method of getting them done or maybe go a different direction. Lau: Hmm. No question about it. I think that that's the way to go. And when your BOSSes are ready to do that, delegating, growing your team, going from solopreneur to really businesspreneur, entrepreneur, whatever is important when you're ready for that step. And that's a courage step. You have to have a lot of courage and faith that you've reached that certain benchmark, but you need to get to the next level up. And in order to do it, you can't be everywhere all the time. You have to have others helping you. That was hard for me, honestly, Anne, because I'm the type of person, I don't know, maybe I'm a control freak and I'll say -- Anne: No, I hear you. Lau: Maybe I'm a control freak, but I like to touch everything. You know what I mean? Anne: Yeah. Lau: I'm like a toddler. I like to touch that and touch that email and touch that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I'm learning that I don't always have to do that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And sometimes, and this was like a huge ego thing, and BOSSes, you might be able to relate to this, the idea that it won't go well or it won't be of high value if I'm not involved with it, is really not true. It's just not true. It's your insecurity potentially. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Lau: Being worried about things going wrong versus that client really getting their value, enjoying themselves fully with another coach or with another engineer, or with another whatever you do like all the millions of jobs. I always say job number 82, you know what I mean? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's something to be said when you do outsource. I mean, I've had, gosh, I wanna say I've had my second hired employee is still with me. Wow. She's been with me for, I'm gonna say nine years now. Lau: Wow. Anne: Think about that. Nine years. Right? Lau: Nine years. Anne: I have been employing, I mean, I have at least nine people on my team now, but they've stayed with me. And that's yet another thing to think about. If you're outsourcing, you have to manage, right? You have to manage employees, you have to delegate, you still have to delegate so you have a little bit of your piece of the pie. You have your hand, your fingers in the pie there. And it's something of an accomplishment to have an employee that is loyal, that wants to stay with you for that long, that you can hopefully motivate and inspire. And it's, it's not just about the money for them. Because I realize that if I want quality work and the type of work that I'm so control freakish myself, right? It's gotta be at a level that's way up here -- if you want your employees to perform at that level, then you have to respect them. You have to treat them well, you have to pay them well. And that also is a big challenge because we are our own business and to invest money, right, again into ourselves for performance training, for demos, for marketing, for outsourcing, it's always, I think, a scary thing for us to spend our money. Right? Our well-earned money. And so again, that's another thing that I can have on my accomplishment list to say I have been a good boss to my employees. And they have not left me in the dust. They've stayed with me. We have a wonderfully respectful, productive relationship. And I'm very proud of that. Lau: And you should be proud of that. That's amazing. And in a world where most bosses just don't care, like workers are dispensable, oftentimes they're not even recognized. It's like you're a number in a lecture classroom kind of thing -- you have built a core business built on value and warmth and a family friendly environment and really nurturing, really just nurturing your talent and your clients, and really making sure you've got a caring, watchful eye. Hard to find that. That is invaluable. Like that is priceless. You know what I mean? To be able to do something like that. We pride ourselves on that too. And I recently said what you said. I said, oh, I've been an amazing boss. Like, I'm incredible. But here's the double-edged sword. I have been the toughest boss that I have ever worked for. I'm much tougher on these than I am on the people that work with me and for me. And that's an issue. Like it's good that you're able to drive yourself. It's not good that you drive yourself crazy. Anne: Oh, I completely agree. I completely agree. And you know what's so interesting? I think that because our product is really a very personal, part of our personal brand, right? It represents our personal brand, whether we are hiring somebody to help market, for us to help engineer, for us to help communicate to potential clients for us, they are representing our brand. And so by default, I like to say, of course, I'm the most caring, warm boss out there. But part of it is also because they're representing my brand, right? And I wanna make sure that I get tip top work, right? Top-notch work. I know myself, I'm not gonna get top-notch work from workers who aren't paid enough. Right? How can I preach the value of knowing your worth if I don't pay my employees what they're worth? Right? How do I get them to care about me and my brand? Because if they write an email and say the wrong thing or come off on a different level or a different way, that is impacting me and affecting my business. And so I have to make sure that my employees are on the ball all the time. And, and I think that's part of the motivation too, for treating your employees well. And I always think you should treat your employees well anyways. Happy employees are gonna be ones that really serve your company and will stay with you for the long term. Lau: That's right. That's part of your envisioning and re-envisioning of your business, that I'm working with the best crew that I can work with. I'm inspiring them. I'm offering them the resources they need. I'm educating them. I'm taking care of them well financially and emotionally, but I'm also motivating myself in a new way and getting courageous about that. Like what's the next step? Let me be honest. How do I level up personally and professionally? How do I get to that next place? And I'm telling you, it can be a leap. I'm going through it myself. It can be, after 14 years, it is really crazy to like take a leap to go from whatever it is, whether it's the six figure to the seven figure mark. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Or to go from this level of client to that level of client, or it's very, very unsettling to do that. Anne: And I'll tell you another thing. I always think about at this time of the year, right? Next year, am I going to raise my prices? Right? Lau: Hmm. We were just talking about that. Yeah. Anne: And I think that, Lau, that's a whole 'nother episode, but it's something, BOSSes, I want you to think about, right? Are you going to be raising your prices? And in economic times such as these, right? When there's a recession or the looming recession, how much are you going to, are you going to change your prices for new clients? Maybe your existing clients, you'll give them a grandfather clause where they get the same rate. But I do think that every time I change my prices, I have a little mini heart attack because it's scary even for us, right Lau, when we -- Lau: Oh, yes. Anne: It takes courage to do things like that, to raise your prices, to hire someone, to fire someone, anything when it comes to your business for growth, it takes courage to grow. Lau: It does. Anne: And I'll tell you what though, I have all the faith in the world for 2023 and the BOSSes that listen to this podcast, that you guys are gonna go write down those accomplishments so that you can have a springboard to really, really reimagine what your business will be like in 2023. And think big. I like to think big, but don't think unrealistic because I'm ever hopeful that I really do believe that when I do reimagine my 2023, I will always make it so it works for me. Because I certainly don't like, I don't like to fail. I mean, I do fail all the time, but I don't like it to look like a failure. So I just say, oh, I changed my mind. So . Lau: Yeah, exactly. Anne: But again, it's all about growth. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And I think that if you have done this for any amount of time, or if you're just getting into it, taking risks and having courage to grow your business -- you don't have to say, oh, I'm gonna go from $1000 a year to $100,000 a year. You don't have to make some crazy grand goal. As a matter of fact, most of my growth has come from goals that I kind of worked backwards from. And so they were step by step by step. And so each one was incremental in a realistic way, so that I never felt like I was losing or a failure or I couldn't make it. Lau: Exactly. And and you know, we have fancy terms that we use now that really justify those moves. Like changing your mind is now called pivoting. We pivot. Anne: Yeah. There you go. Lau: Because it either doesn't work or it's not what we thought it is, or it's just not panning out for whatever reason, or we no longer wanna do it. It doesn't satisfy our overall goal. So we pivot in a new direction. So as you're able to transition and pivot and move, I would say, stay in action, move forward. Keep envisioning and re-envisioning, and don't be apologetic if you need to change course, if you need to pivot like you do, Anne, like I do every single day. That's really part of the game. And if you're gonna be in it, you need to keep that action moving forward. And just go for it. Like don't hold back. Go for it. Anne: Well, I am Inspired, Lau, by you and I thank you, Lau. This is our last podcast episode of this year. We are continuing next year, which I'm so excited for. Lau: Yay. Anne: But yeah, so I have to say I am truly grateful and appreciative of having you these past few months as my co-host and absolutely love growing my business with you and growing VO BOSS. And for the BOSSes out there, I wanna say it's been an amazing year. Thank you so much for supporting us. One last thing, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes and reimagine your 2023 with ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. I have all the good feels for next year for all of you. Keep listening, we love you, and we'll see you next year. Lau: Thanks everyone. See you next year. Anne: Thanks, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What's the deal with representation? In this episode, Anne & Lau break down the basics. They share what agents do, how they can help with your career, & why you should (or shouldn't) sign with one. Lau shares her experience as an agent & what she does on a day-to-day basis while Anne gets answers to common questions voice actors have about having an agent. Agencies are businesses, but they have the power to help you find work, making them a potentially valuable part of your career. Unfortunately, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to the "do I need an agent" question. It depends on the kind of work you are looking to do & what your goals are. We know there are many ways to BOSS with and without an agent, but if you want to learn more, we've got you covered. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. It's a good day, Lau. Lau: It's a great day. It's always a great day to talk voiceover. It's like we could, I was just saying we could talk forever. This podcast should be like day and night. It should never stop ever. 'Cause we could talk so much about it and life and being a human being and all the things we care about. There you go alongside that. Anne: So I do wanna say that we recently just met and really clicked and of course I'm super excited that you are now representing me. And I thought about it because I love the fact that I think you get almost as excited, if not more excited about providing me with opportunities than I do about being repped by you. Lau: Totally. Anne: And I thought it would be a great time to talk about, should we get representation? What's the deal with representation or should we not? Because I get that question all the time from my students. Lau: Oh my gosh. I do too. It's an ongoing conversation. It's a great discussion to have; all questions are good questions. There's no answer to it. I don't think there's a specific answer to it, but the discussion's really important to have, and you're right. I do get really off on getting the work for others. I love you do the feeling. And I was trying to think back when I was a performer full time. I dunno if I felt that way about even myself. Like I was always kind of that agent manager type, you know what I mean? I was just kind of like that Jewishy producer myself, you know, kind of thing, New Yorky thing, whatever that is. I love it. I love it. Not just for the work itself, but for the process of being able to get someone inside of something that they're on the outside of. It's almost like a secret. To me, it's like a safe, like I get to help someone find the combination to the safe. Anne: Oh, I love that. Lau: And get inside of it and discover what the treasures are. Sometimes it's money and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just a whole bunch of like a portal of a world that you weren't in before. It's Narnia's closet. That's what it is. Anne: I love it. Well, I have to say I've done casting myself, and I always love that let's fit this voice talent to this job. And it's wonderful when it comes together like that. Lau: It is, it is. Anne: And so I think that it is having agents is a wonderful thing. However, agents solely represent a portion of where I get my opportunities from. And I always try to explain that to anybody who like, when they first start getting into the business, they're like, when do I get an agent? I need an agent. I'm like, well, I literally was working in the industry for about four years full time before I got my first agent. I think it's helpful to really understand the role that agents play in helping to get work for voice talent. So let's start with you, Lau. Tell me a little bit about your role as an agent and what types of are specific genres that you specialize in. Lau: So I have now been in an agent capacity for about two and a half years. So I'm still relatively young in the agent world. I was a coach and for many years, still am, and a performer myself, still am. But I mean, that happened well, we were right in the middle of the COVID and you know, as a business thinker immediately, I start thinking, what problem can I solve? Who needs, what, who needs what, what's missing, what's missing. So we're Boston based in the new England market. I said, oh, I don't know of any voiceover divisions. We don't have a department in an agency that's voiceover. We have some great studios that will do casting, but we just don't have that like a New York, like an LA has that. And I sort of aspired to be like the big guys. I always said, well, now we're in a global market, right? We're in the middle of COVID, we're locked in our houses, everyone's still doing voiceover. And I said, what can we do? So I wanted to open this division, and I ended up pioneering the MCVO and opening it under the umbrella of Model Club. That's my colleague, Tim Ayers who owns and operates Model Club. So it was a really interesting, unorthodox way of working where this company, my company Lau Lapides started to become a contractor to a licensed agency to start a division that we had the knowledge of how to do that. So we went ahead and did that, started stocking the roster. And I sort of have been around agents for most of my life. Anne: That was stocking the roster, not stalking, right? Okay. Lau: Stocking, like adding people in, adding voices in like -- Anne: Stock. Lau: Yeah, stock. Anne: Not stalk. Lau: No, not stalk. All right. I have to articulate that one really well. Right? . Anne: I think that was that New York accent Lau: It was that New York accent. And I had to learn as I went, to be honest with you. I think this is the kind of trade that people who go into casting or go into agency work are working with agencies and working with casting. And they're apprenticing and they're learning how to do it as they go. You can't learn it in a classroom. It's not that type of thing. And so I was learning through the years how to do these things by kind of doing it. And this was a fit and this was kismet. And then I launched it when we launched it. You can imagine we had immediate response from talent all over the place -- Anne: Oh, I bet. Yeah. Lau: -- who wanted to submit because it's exciting simply to have a voiceover agency or voiceover division. And so that was kind of cool and exciting, and then figuring out how do we connect to breakdowns and how do we get some of the best auditions, and how do we connect the dots with current clients, whether they're regional clients or national clients, and just sort of spend time figuring that out and doing that. But we were lucky in in the sense that we started getting great auditions almost immediately, like -- Anne: That's great. Lau: -- between the clients that we already had, Tim already had, and my connections nationally, we started getting a lot of stuff in, and it was almost overwhelming to, to find talent for that. Anne: I wanna just kind of interject here because I think most talent don't think about what is a talent agency, right? And I just wanna kind of bring it home and say, we need to understand that a talent agency or an agent, they are a business. And their business is to match clients up with voice talent. And so they have their own work to do in terms of securing clients that and advertising to clients, that they have a great roster that they can help fulfill that need. So I think sometimes voice talent forget that agents, they aren't magic. They don't have magical clients. They have to do a ton of work to get those clients and to keep those clients. So understanding that an agent is also a business will help you to understand that once you have an agent, when you get an agent, there needs to be a relationship there, where we both can benefit each other. And that agents are also in a business and need to make money. And part of that is by matching clients to talent. And if there is a profit margin there, then obviously the agent is going to work that deal. And the reason I bring that up, Lau, is because I think that a lot of agents work specifically in broadcast media, because there's opportunity for more profit there versus let's say a one0off non-broadcast sort of a deal. So maybe you can expand upon that a little bit. Lau: Yeah. I mean, I think just a baseline for people who are learning about agencies, or maybe wanting to tier up to the next level of a better quality agency, just simply put agencies are the middle people. They're the middle women, middle men. They're in the middle. So they're the contract dealers, the negotiation people, the people who find the talent, connect the talent to the job, help with casting. The -- we're not casting directors per se. We don't take the place of a casting director, but we do help in all sorts of capacities. And we do get clients that say, hey, what are your thoughts? Like, can you help narrow this down? Anne: You do shortlist, right? You do shortlist? Lau: You do shortlist. Anne: I was gonna say, yep. Lau: You do recommendations. You do shortlist. And because sometimes they happen very fast, they will rely on you to make quick recommendations and have very quick answers to questions, questions on availability, questions on rate structure, questions on union status. Anne: Sure. Lau: Questions on what their setup is in their home studio. So there's a lot of stuff that has to happen that goes through the agent that has to happen fast. And the reason they'll go to an agent, many reasons, but one is for speed, so that they know that they're gonna have their stuff when they need it as quickly as possible. They don't have to chase the talent. Anne: That makes sense. And they don't have to cast the net wide and make their own decisions. So, yeah. And I think, so, let me ask you a question. Do, do the majority of agencies, or is this really dependent, do they shortlist themselves or it depends on the client if the client is looking for -- Lau: Yeah, it depends on the client. And once in a while you will have a private client that is with other agencies as well. So like if it's something that's on a national platform or even a regional, if you're going through a casting office, they'll have other agencies. They'll be submitting their top talent from other agencies. They'll whittle that down fairly quickly. And then they'll, you know, reach out to you. As an agency, you're never the only fish in the ocean. Anne: Right. Lau: I think the, what agents try to get is private clients. Like we love private clients. Because we know like when I get a company, that's, let's say they're a regional company, and they're gonna cast and they reach out to us, I know that like eight times out of ten, we're gonna book that job. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We're gonna book that job because they're privatized. We have a relationship them. We can provide the same talent over and over and over again. Whereas sometimes it's a hit or miss if you're going through casting -- Anne: And you're reliable. Exactly. Lau: Right. Anne: Just as we need to be as voice talent. Right? Just as we need to be to our clients. Right? Agents need to be that to their clients. Absolutely. Lau: Exactly. So the relational factor's really, really important. And then of course they are assuming and rightly so that we're doing a screening process that they don't have to do. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to audition. They don't have to find the talent. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to do any of that. We're doing that. Anne: Right. They rely on you because they know that you have a roster of professional talents that their studios have already been vetted. You already are familiar with the roster and their specialties and availability, that's another big thing. Right? Lau: That's right. Anne: Who's available? And so that I think really takes care a lot of the tedious details that they don't wanna have to deal with. And so. Lau: Oh no, they don't wanna deal with any of that. Anne: They reach out and oh gosh. Do I even begin in saying like the naming of files, of audition files? Lau: Oh, it's endless. Anne: Who takes care of that? Lau: It's endless. That's right. I always joke. It's like they don't wanna have Jim in cubicle C handling that because Jim doesn't know how to do that, if you know what I mean? Like they don't get any of that. And so it would be overwhelming to them to go into a big pocket of say, thousands of voices to try to find what they're looking for. That would be way too overwhelming and time consuming to do. So that's another reason why they still go to agencies because they know it's not gonna be thousands and thousands of voices. It's gonna be the top 500 voices for critique. And then out of that, the specific submission for their criteria of their breakdown. And then they've got their top 15, 20, 25 people, which is more than enough for them, 'cause they know again, they're screened in their top to find who they need. And it's funny because at the beginning Tim went from, oh, it's okay. I mean, if they have an iPhone, and they can can record in their iPhone they don't need a home studio, different -- to, okay. You need a studio, a source connect. And I was like, no, we want the best talent nationwide if not international, because we are now competing against very large agencies in the hub. So we don't wanna shorter ourselves by saying, oh, as long as they can jump on a phone and do something. No, no, we wanna have the industry standards in place so that if we book a McDonald's or we book a Dunkin Donuts, so we're really ready for that because they're auditioning your studio as much as they're auditioning you now. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Lau: Everyone knows. Anne: That is the truth. Lau: So the agent depends on that. . Anne: I love that we're learning about agencies from the agency's business side because it really can help us as voice talent to understand like your day-to-day kind of activities. Like let's talk about your day when you are throwing out an audition to people. So tell me, what do you do as an agent when you are casting? Lau: Well, I'm a little bit unorthodox in the sense that I now run two businesses. So I run my studio , which is separate, very separate, then the agency side from MC Inc. So when I run the agency side, we're constantly getting in auditions, which we've been filtered by the different relationships we have, the services we work with, but so they're coming in sometimes daily. They're coming in throughout the day. We're looking at them, making sure that they're legit, they're coming from where they need to come from, and then getting them out as quickly as possible. And that can be a challenge too, because if we're working on other work or we're recording or we're coaching or we're whatever, we have to really multitask or stop what we're doing to do that. Because I know once that audition comes to me, there's a chance it's gone out to X amount of other agencies. Anne: Sure. Right. Lau: So I gotta get my sneakers on and get that out really fast before some of my talent may get that from another agency. Anne: Sure. Now question. Yeah. In terms of like audition deadlines, so this is the bane of my existence, right, with my agents. Right? Because I don't have a lot of time during my day however, so when my auditions come in from my agents, I wanna turn that around quickly, as quickly as I possibly can. So when you understand, let's say, okay, here's your audition. Deadline is this date, are you determining that date for your agency? Or is that the client that's determining that date? Lau: Well, the client gives us the truest date that they have. I don't know how accurate it is to their inside process. Anne: Right, right. Lau: But they'll give us the hard deadline of what they need. Then we'll move the deadline in so that we have time to process it. Anne: Sure, sure. Lau: And we also have time for retake. So let's say there's someone that we have to have in on this audition, but he's on vacation and he is in the mountains and he has no reception, but he can do it tonight or tomorrow, we'll hold that for him so he can do that if possible. So we always time it. So let's say it's due Thursday at 5:00 PM Eastern. We'll time it so that we're getting it in by like Wednesday, if possible, so that we can process it and leave time for problems as they arrive. Anne: And so when you say process it, you are downloading the audition file. You are doing shortlisting if you have to, if your client has asked you to. Correct? Lau: Yeah. Anne: And so is that you personally, or do you have a team that helps you to do that? Lau: We have a team. I have a team that helps me do that. And the industry standard now is Dropbox. So we're all using Dropbox to transfer our files, and even going out now, I'm watching slates go out. So slates are slowly going out where we're sending in a zip or we're sending in a pack and they know where it's coming from. So we don't actually need a slate. So some of the private clients and some of the companies we work with say no slate. We don't wanna hear it. We don't need it. Great. Anne: Okay. Nice. Lau: One less thing to do. That's good. Anne: Sure. Lau: And then we try hard to establish our own protocols if they don't give us direction on labeling and they don't give us direction on this or that. We try to say, listen, we're just not always getting that from the client because they don't care about it. They don't know about it. And it's not relevant. So just do this when you don't hear about it, just do this. Anne: Whoever has to download the files, this is the way I feel, whoever has to download the files needs to be the one that determines how the file is named. Lau: Yeah, exactly. And sometimes agents will send it out and you just won't get that direction, and people are confused. They'll say, wait a second. Am I missing something? I'll say, no, they didn't give us that direction. We're not giving it to you. So just go to your default of, we always label like this, label like this. Anne: I would say name, project, Anne Ganguzza dash and then name of the job. That's my default. That's it. Lau: I do say, Anne, one of the biggest things you can have as a benefit for yourself is speed. Because ours are not that speedy. We're not like a pay-to-play site where you have to get in in 10, 15 minutes. We'll give you a day. We'll give you two, even three days, sometimes like a really long time. But if people are gonna wait until the third day, what'll happen is like, I already know there's a natural bell curve in every roster. I know like the top voices we have, unless they're already on another gig or they're on vacation, they're gonna submit within about an hour or two. And I just know they're gonna be the first ones up for it because A, they're great like you, but B, they may cut that audition off because they may get enough in the first day. And then they don't need to listen to day two or day three. Anne: Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Lau: So I just say to people, you know, don't, don't put yourself under a terrible rush, but don't wait until the last minute either. You know, get it in as soon as you possibly can, move it out the way because those, as I notice our booking ratios, those people tend to be booking more than folks who are waiting longer. Anne: The ones that get it in first, yep. That makes sense. Lau: They are. Anne: That makes sense because at some point too, I think that we have to realize that when you're listening to so many auditions at one time, at some point it starts to become like white noise. . Lau: I would imagine it's overwhelming. Anne: I's overwhelming. Lau: Even it's hard for us to listen to demo submissions sometimes so if we get 10 or 15 at a time, it's time consuming, and we wanna give it what it needs, the attention that it needs. But we have to be careful with the time. Anne: It just brings me back to like, this is what we're always saying is that you need to differentiate yourself from the pack when you're sending in that audition. And it doesn't mean that you're different is like -- a lot of times I'll look at the spec and I'll be like, okay, I get it. But I still wanna add my own unique spin on it because everybody else is gonna look at those specs and try to do it exactly like those specs or what we think they want to hear. And so I think making it more unique in that audition, I mean, for me, it's what have I got to lose in making it unique? I mean, if I can make it unique, they're gonna know that I have the capability of making it sound just like in my head it says it should sound like. Lau: Sure, sure. Anne: So I'm not gonna give them that. I don't wanna give 'em what I think it should sound like. I wanna give 'em that unique take so that it, it makes them wake up. Lau: That's right. Anne: It makes them get me the gig and then they can direct me to whatever they want afterwards. Lau: And, and do it up front because you don't know if they're gonna listen to your entire demo. Anne: Exactly. Lau: And some of the demos we get are not even industry standard. They'll go on for two or three minutes. Very rarely will we listen to a three-minute demo just because we get it, like the first two reads or three reads, like we get it, we get what you can do. So put something up front that's your strong suit, something you get hired for all the time, and then put something that's incredibly diverse and varied from that right next to it. Anne: Are you talking audition or are you talking demo? So like -- Lau: I'm talking demo. Anne: Okay. Lau: I'm talking demo, but also audition. I would say audition as well, because let's say they don't say how many takes they want. I'd say, okay, if you can do three unique takes, do three unique takes, right? What's the worst? They don't listen to them all. But if they do and they really love your voice, make them super diverse, super unique, and very pinpointed as to where you live and where your voice lives. Because there wouldn't be any reason as send in more than one take that sound the same. Anne: Right, right, exactly. Lau: That's a very, a common mistake that people make, you know, otherwise you send one great take, just do your best. Take one great take and call it a day. But if you can do diverse or -- Anne: A completely different. Lau: -- do it. Yeah, do it. Anne: Absolutely. So now let me ask you a question. So when should voice talent search for an agent? Is there a time? Lau: Again, I'm really unorthodox about that. I know a lot of agent friends I have say, don't talk to me until you get like five years under your belt. You've already been with an agency. I got some good credits and I love your demo, and I trust you because that's what I represent. And I get that. I don't feel that way actually. I feel like people should be up for it when they feel ready. And then it's very quick to tell if we think that they're ready. Even if they haven't worked yet, even if they have no resume, we've taken in some people that are amazing, that are new. They're just new. They're coming in. They did a beautiful demo. They're clearly professional in the way in which they write to us. I just instantly like them. I said, why would I hold them back on the basis of like that they haven't worked? They have to get work to work. So if we love their voice and we feel like, oh, we've got a market for their sound, bring them in. Right? But the bread and butter voice is always gonna go first because we have a lot of fans of animation and video game and all of that great stuff. It's just, for us, it's not gonna be the big market for us. And it isn't for a lot of agencies. I think agencies more and more are bringing in slowly animation opportunities, but much of their stuff is just real person stuff. Anne: I'm glad you said that. So I'm gonna say some agencies specialize in just animation or that's their thing. And I would say that those would be located more in the places like LA and those markets where animation is there, but in terms of other agencies, I'm gonna say, yeah, your bread and butter is commercial for the most part, right? Lau: Yeah. Yeah. It is. For the most part. It is. Yeah. Once in a while, we'll see an animation come through, we'll see a narration come through. We'll see a couple different things, but yes. And I have found that with friends that run agencies too. Once in a while, they'll get a great industrial or a really nice nice eLearning piece. But much of the time they're just doing as many nationals as they can get in and as many of their regional market and their local folks, as they can get in to really, really pay the bills. Anne: Good. I'm so glad you said that. And I just wanna kind of make that point to the BOSSes out there. It becomes, where can you make a profit? And I don't mean to make all agents to be all like hungry, profit driven people, but you are a business. And so for the most part, those nationals and those regionals, those are the ones that are bringing in the money in, the consistent money, right, that will be able to make a profit so that you can survive as an agency. So then I wanna also point out that if you are a voice talent, and the majority of your business is e-learning or corporate and that sort of thing, I have a ton of, and I know a lot of voice actors where they have a lot of work in that area -- that happens to be where I do a lot of my work as well. So in terms of, for me, when I was getting agents, I have like 10 agents all scattered around. It doesn't mean that I get auditions from all 10 agents all the time. And I have certain agents that I work closely with because I book with them and we have a relationship. And so that's where my auditions come from, my agents. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I will take the time to do that. But those jobs that they're offering, they're almost all broadcast commercial genre. And I do get a couple of industrials once in a while from one of my agents. And so if you BOSSes are out there, if you are not necessarily booking in commercial yet, or you're not interested in commercial, then maybe an agent, you don't need one right away. I think everybody should have an agent. I think everyone, at some point should have a commercial demo. But if that is not in your future, that you don't like commercials. You don't think you'd ever wanna do one. And you just wanna spend your career doing eLearning, then that's absolutely fine. Lau: Absolutely. By no means do you have to have an agent in order to work because the world is filled with so many different, wonderful genres of voiceover. You just need to be inventive and clever about doing your homework and doing your research in these different genres. Like for instance, I recently brought into our studio, one of the big romance and erotica voiceover instructors, and she did a wonderful workshop for us. Anne, I knew nothing about that. I did, I just didn't know about--and she talked a long time, a good hour about the business of it, like where to find work. How to list your name, how to do this, how to charge your rates, how to -- and I think, wow, this is great. So do I need an agent for that? No, I really don't. Could I get an agent later in the right market? Probably, but you don't need it. So, so you have to determine, gee okay. If this is my bread and butter market, I probably wanna get an agent to get the upper level auditions, but in these other areas, I can probably make my own inroads and my own connections. Get some great clients into a combination of the two. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. BOSSes, it's not necessary to have an agent to get work. You can get work in multiple genres without necessarily have an agent, but I'm the type of person that I like to have opportunities, as many opportunities as I can. Thus, I think it's wonderful that I have these amazing agents, like Lau, that are on my team. They're on my side. They wanna see me work. They wanna get me work, and it becomes a relationship just like you have a relationship. And I love that we talked so much about your business of the agency because a lot of times, voice talent don't, they don't think about it and they don't realize it. And I think if they understood the perspective from your side as a business, it helps us to form, I think, a better relationship with you, because we understand where things come from, and why do I get that audition at 8:00 at night? Well, because all day long, they've been fielding emails and dealing with clients and you are getting it out as quick as you can to us. Lau: Yeah. And maybe it's coming from a different time zone. Anne: There you go. Exactly. So there's lots of things that we may not think about when we get an audition in for our agent. And also in terms of like, well, is my agent listening to me and shortlisting me or not? Or is it the client? Or how do I know that this audition wasn't sent out to hundreds of other people? And I think the really good agents understand the opportunity and will send it to the group of people that would be great for the opportunity. Sometimes I have agents that it seems like maybe they didn't do that. Maybe I just got like the generic send out all auditions to all the roster, and therefore I make my own decision. Lau: Yeah. I know, people hate that. They're not filtering . Anne: I know, but I'm thankful for the opportunity. And so, I mean, come on, we can all handle looking at audition and looking at the specs. If you don't fit the specs, don't respond. Lau: I was always the same way too. I was like, okay, it's not for me. Anne: Yeah. I would never complain about that. It actually kind of bothers me that I see some people complaining about that, the cattle call auditions. I'm like my gosh, it's, it's an opportunity. And it takes me a minute to look at those specs and read them and say, do I fit those specs? Am I male? No. So guess what? I, thanks. I'm fine. Just waiting for the next one. So -- Lau: It'd be like clients just from different businesses calling you or emailing you, be like, do you know, we don't do that? That's not what we do. And I'm surprised you would call me. We'd say, oh, how interesting, let me refer you to someone or let me find out more about you, what have you. Anne: I like that. Right. And that goes back like, look, if I got a castings spec, and I've done this before, where it didn't fit me, but I said, oh man, I know a perfect voice for that, I actually would write back to that agent and say, I have a great recommendation. Can I send this audition? Would you be open for me to send this audition? Lau: I love you. I love you. I love people like you and I have a number of people in MCVO that do just that. They say, Lau, you know, it's not me, but I've got friends who are actually this. May I forward them. And I'm like, yes. I love that. Anne: That's why I'm just grateful. I'm grateful to get the opportunity. And, and I just look at it as like, look at another, I get tons of email. It's okay. I can filter. It's not that big of a deal. Takes me a minute. Lau: You think like. I think it's just another job and why don't I wanna see a job? I'm gonna keep the script. I'm gonna have it as a reference. It's interesting to see who the producer is. I love it. Anne: Yeah. You learn a lot. Like, so what if that audition wasn't for me? Oh, that's kind of cool. I like that script. Right? You can just choose to learn. It's like one of the things, just an off topic, but when people say, well, how do I get work in corporate? Right? And I say, well, I go to company websites and I sign up for their mailing list because I wanna see who their audience is and how they're marketing to it. And so if I get the job with that company, I have a background information where I understand who that company is, who their audience is, what their brand stands for. I have all that knowledge that I can then use in a audition for them or in, in correspondence with them. And so the same thing. You can learn a lot. So. Lau: I'm exactly like that. As business people, as BOSSes, you wanna be inquisitive. You wanna be curious. You wanna know like, ooh, what's happening in that world? Oh my goodness. Who are they talking to and what are they concerned about here? And who are they looking for? I always say like, when you get an audition, get used to hopping on your smartphone, just like really fast. Look up an advertising campaign. See the kinds of actors they're bringing in. What does the company visually look like? What does it sound like right now? Just get a flavor of that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: You may not have time to do massive research, but just to hop on for five minutes. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like we need to be able to do that as business people. If we're gonna work with a new client. Oh, sorry. So don't you hate, Anne, oh, sorry, I didn't have time to go to your website. Sorry. I don't know exactly what you do. Anne: No, my God. Lau: It's at your fingertips. Just jump on for five minutes to have a little bit of language. Anne: If you're a student of mine, and you didn't check out the website, like that is just no. Lau: Or go on YouTube. Anne: That is not acceptable. Lau: What are they doing, you know? Anne: That is not acceptable, not acceptable that you did not research the company, but like it takes a minute. Takes a minute. Lau: Yeah. What about this one? I don't, I don't know how to pronounce this. How do you pronounce it? Anne: Oh my gosh. Lau: I said, well, go online, go find -- have an actor say it so that you hear what it sounds like. Don't just guess at it or not worry about it. Anne: We need to act like BOSSes, the BOSSes that we are. So what a great conversation. I love -- this was such a unique perspective. Thank you, Lau, for sharing that with us and sharing with the BOSSes. I think that's amazing. I would like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and learn like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you wanna make a difference with your voice and give back to those communities that give to you, check out 100voiceswhocare.org to find out how you can give back and have a sense of purpose. All right, guys. Amazing talk. Thanks again, Lau. We will see you next week. Bye. Lau: Thank you, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

It's the holidays! The time of year when we all get to relax, catch up on our tasks, and spend time with friends and family. But what if you've been so busy working that you didn't even realize it was the holidays? Or what if you're stuck in the booth and can't take a break? If you're going to take time for the holidays, be sure to book out with agents & clients. This way you don't have to worry about missing out on new business opportunities. For all the workaholics out there, the holidays can be a peaceful time to catch up on work. And don't be afraid to take time away! You'll come back from this little vacation refreshed & ready to tackle anything the new year brings. And don't forget that this is a great time for planting seeds for 2023. Send out thank-you cards, small gifts, and mementos to those who have helped make 2022 amazing for you! Still feel like the holidays are a stressful time filled with family obligations, work commitments, and personal commitments that all need to be balanced? Don't worry: we've got some tips for how to BOSS through the season… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my very, very special guest, cohost Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne. Good to see ya. Anne: Here we are for our business superpower series, which is one of my favorite series, The Business Superpowers. And speaking of business superpowers, the holiday season is upon us and there's a lot of things that go on during the holidays. And so I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about how we can still be the biggest, best BOSSes throughout the holiday season because there are changes that happen. Sometimes things slow down, and we get nervous. Sometimes we have a lot of work and it's tough when you're trying to celebrate the holidays with your family. So let's talk about how we can have BOSSness for the holidays. Lau: I love BOSSness through the holidays, and everyone has their own ebb and flow. Some people, as you said, get super busy. They can't even think straight, and others are dead in the water and they don't know where the work is and everything in between. I do think one of the things you just mentioned, Anne, which is so important, is the celebration factor. So whether it's within the work itself that you're celebrating -- it could be the copy itself is holiday copy. It could be your clients that maybe your handpicking particular clients that you wanna send gifts of gratitude to -- whatever the case may be, you are celebrating. There's a celebratory tone and feel and mood. So you wanna make sure that you balance that to some degree, that you not only have time to celebrate with yourself and your family, but you also celebrate that you have a business, you're running a business. And how do you pay attention to all the many celebrations that are happening around you? Right? Anne: That's an excellent point. I think that it almost comes to like, what's the balance, right? That family, friends, holiday balance with work. If you're crazy busy doing a bunch of work -- now, the one thing that's good about the holidays is I find advertising agencies like to, to get ahead. Right? So, I mean, I'm already like towards the end of the summer starting to record things for the holidays, and so it starts early. Kinda like when they put the Christmas or the holiday, Hanukkah stuff out when it's like August or September in the stores. Lau: Yeah. Retail is like retail two, three seasons ahead. Anne: They are way ahead. So I think that with some planning, right, with strategic planning, BOSSes can really, I think, continue to do wonderful things throughout the holiday season and get the opportunity to spend a good amount of time with their friends and family. I mean, I like to book myself out between, for me, it's Christmas and New Year's. I like, I book myself out and I, I find that to be a relatively safe time for what I end up doing in my genres of work that I typically work in. Usually works well for me. What about you, Lau? Lau: Actually, it's so funny you say that. I don't know if I've ever really formally booked myself out. I feel like I've always, and this is my choice, I have a lot of colleagues that don't do this at all. I'm always kind of available for clients. Partly because, and I'll be honest with you, Anne, I'm like a workaholic. Okay, let me just get that out there right now. So I, I love what I do and I'm sort of addicted to it, and I always do it, you know, so it's like -- Anne: I'm right there with you. Lau: Yeah. I mean arguably so yes, a lot of folks are taking their vacations and booking out and doing all of that, but I always find there's work to do. There's catch-up work, there's my planning for the new year, what I wanna get done in quarter one, quarter two. So always find tons of stuff that I wanna be working on. And I have a different mindset during the holiday season. It actually for me isn't as stressful as when we're outside of holiday season. Because I know everyone's off and running and doing their thing. I get to catch up. So that's really exciting for me. But yeah, to steal some time and make sure that you're relaxing and getting enough rest and taking care of yourself and exercising, you know, all of that is great during the holiday season. Anne: I love that. And I identify, I identify with you, and I don't know if this is something to be proud of, but I mean I am a workaholic and I have been for a long time. And I think one of the reasons why I make it a pact with myself to try and book out as much as possible -- right, it's not that I won't read my email right during those days. However, I try to make sure that I'm not doing any necessary recordings for my clients, but my brain, my brain is never off, right? So there are times though, because I work so hard during the year that when I decide to say I'm off, thankfully I can shut the majority of that off. The good thing about me is that I not only work hard, but I play hard. And so when I decide that I'm going to take that time for reflection and refreshing my energy, I make it work for me because I know that after I take that break, I'm going to be better for it. Lau: Yes, I agree. I think just from the health and wellbeing of your mindset, you do need to have downtime that's scheduled in. Holidays are easy because most people are taking some sort of downtime. So you almost get permission to do it because so many people are doing it as well. I also find too, it's a great time for me to think about how I wanna connect, reconnect, and confirm and thank all the folks that I've worked with throughout the year. So it's a time where I'm sending out maybe gifts or letters or emails or e-cards or whatever it is, saying this has been amazing, love the experience. Let's do this next quarter. So I'm planting seeds. I find I'm planting seeds with people that I've either worked with or haven't worked with of what I'd like to do for next year. And they may not get to it for a month. They may not get to it right away, but it's there. It's like sitting there, it's like a little seed that I know is gonna sprout in a couple months. Anne: Mm-Hmm. For me, yeah, people would always say, well what do you send out gifts? What do you do for your clients over the holidays? And I like to send out e-cards, uh, notes, especially wishing a new year of happiness and prosperity and health and that kind of thing so it doesn't land during the holidays, which I think is a very busy part of the holidays for a lot of my clients. They're probably getting a lot of notes, a lot of gifts. And so I always like to say, well, let me stand out a little bit and I'll send something for the new year. And that way it'll come at a time that maybe they'll be able to spend more time and and see it and not be inundated with other emails, cards, gifts, that sort of thing. So I like the whole celebrate the new year, looking forward to working with you again in the new year, and that sort of a thing. So for me, my attention towards my clients is from a new year perspective and a happy holidays because that would encompass all of the holidays, we hope, that people celebrate 'cause there's just so many of them. Lau: So true. And actually we would think you and I would think 'cause we're from that timeframe where everyone would get gifts, the casting, the agents, whatever -- but you know what I've noticed in the last five or 10 years, Anne, many of them don't get as many as we think. And I know this because they'll write back to me, they'll say, oh my goodness, that was so thoughtful of you. That was incredible. If I send, let's say I send an edible arrangement. And they say, our office is gonna love this, Lau. It's just so thoughtful. You know, we don't see many of these, you know, whatever. Anne: Not like it used to be. Lau: Not like it used to be. No. It's very different now. You know? Anne: And in the corporate world too. I mean it used to be very, very different. And I think the pandemic might have had a lot to do with that as well and the economy. And so I think for me it turned into what can I do that's more meaningful? Right? I think before it used to be like, let's send a gift, let's send this and then what would you send? And is it a personal gift? Does it showcase thought or is it just -- for me, I really try to think about the relationship that I have with my clients and make it something special, something personal. And again, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. I think that even just a personalized note, or a lot of times I'm a decent baker. Lau: Ooh. Anne: I can bake. I know everybody knows Jerry can cook, but I can bake. And I did when we were first dating, by the way, I did bake him something to impress him, and little did I know at that time he was like a gourmet chef. But I was like, here, I need you a carrot cake muffin for Valentine's Day. I mean carrot cake muffins in a basket. And, and I was like, ooh. I think 'cause it's a really great recipe. And little did I know that he's like a gourmet chef, but I'm like, here have a muffin that I baked. Lau: Oh my God. So you are actually like Kristin Wiig in Bridesmaids, remember that? Where she baked her boyfriend that carrot cake, and it was in the shape of a carrot and then the raccoon ate it? Remember that? Anne: I did, I, I baked a carrot cake. Lau: I was gonna ask you what your favorite gifts are. Like what's your favorite gift that you've either received or that you've sent out? Any come to mind? Anne: So for me it's handmade. It's gotta be handmade because so much of my life with my husband is revolved around his gourmet foodiness. There's lots of things, like every year we give out handmade this or that. And like last year it was handmade salad dressing. And that's really cool. I mean, I buy the bottle, I designed the label. My husband, we make Sicilian lemon olive of oil and that kind of thing, dressing. And we give that out. And that's something that I don't hesitate sending to my clients and that it's handmade, because if they know me at all, which I try to make sure that they do, they know that I come from that background, and that my husband is pretty much a, a gourmet anything. So I find that that makes a really nice gift. And it's something that is not gonna cost a ton for me. And I do, I have to say, I do love Amazon gift certificates. Lau: Oh, totally. Anne: Because yeah, that just takes care of everything for let's say, I have a lot of people that I hire, my assistants, and I feel like I wanna give them something as a gift and not something that's just, of course money is always appreciated, right, a bonus, that kind of thing? So I do that. Or if they do something that's special, and this is at any time, I might give them a gift certificate to Amazon. Lau: That's a good thing. Anne: That really tends to be my favorite thing or anything that's special. So for example, another one of my clients who I share love of animals, you know, my cats or my dogs -- it will be a gift for their cat and it's so funny -- or a gift for their dog because they almost appreciate it more, right, because it shows like a deeper connection. Lau: Yes. Anne: If I get a gift for their dog. Like wouldn't it be cute to get matching sweaters, like, oh, dog sweater and sweater? But again, it has to be specific to the client. What about you? I'm excited to hear your, your favorites. Lau: Yeah. Well, I mean there's standard stuff that whether you know this or not know this -- I mean, most people would know about Edible Arrangements. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I really like Sherry's Berries too. So if you don't know about Sherry's Berries, that's really fun. Like hand dipped berries and fruit. That's awesome stuff. Anne: Yep. Lau: But we've done some interesting things in the past. I mean, my daughter is a visual artist, so she could draw like nobody's business. Anne: Oh, that's nice. Lau: Through the years, there were times -- I didn't wanna impose on her because it can take time to create art -- but there were times where we would have a, a special relationship with a casting or an agent, what have you, she would either draw them or she would draw something in the industry and send it to them. And that was like an incredible gift. Anne: Sure. Lau: You can also do promotional items that represent you or your company. And then give it a little personal twist. Like for instance, you know, we have some books that we published and then we'll, you know, add some photos to it or sign them or what have you. So you've got your promotional in there, and then you've got the personalized twist, and you've got a little note in there, a little gift card in there, a little something in there. Those have been some of my favorites. Another regular thing that I used to do with in studio events, when I hold events, I would do gifts, like literal gifts, not as much for the men. If I did anything for the men, it would be a gift card. But for women, I would literally get them jewelry. And I almost never went wrong with jewelry. Almost never. They loved it. And you don't have to spend a lot of money on it either. Like you can get beautiful jewelry, and sometimes they would be thoughtful for what that person is. Like for instance, if I knew their birthdate or if I knew something about what they were celebrating, I would take the color of the stone or I would take their name or something like that and I would put it right into the jewelry. Right into the gift. They love that. They love that stuff. Anne: Personalization. Lau: Yeah, personalization. Anne: Absolutely. And I was actually noticing your earrings earlier, and I was like, I really like those earrings . See, you can't go wrong with jewelry, I don't think for a lot of women, but that's me, of course. But yeah, I think that however you can personalize, it really makes just like any gift that you give to someone, right? However you can personalize it makes it really nice. And I also think in terms of promotional gifts, I try not to do just a promotional gift. You know what I mean? Even if I'm sending a card. Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: It's not gonna be like -- I'll say, I'm grateful, thank you so much. I loved working with you this year. But it's not gonna be all about like a big branded gift. It's really just gonna be thanks so much. And even if I got them a present for their dog, I'm not gonna brand it. Lau: Right. Anne: Because I think that it's similar to like the VO BOSS podcast where I'm always telling people, it doesn't have to be -- like, for me it is about voiceover. But my primary purpose with this podcast was to, I wanted to educate. I wanted to give back, right? And if people get value from it, then it's a gift, right? It's a gift that I wanna give from me to the community. And I feel like that's the way it should be for your gifts, really. And that's why it doesn't have to be like, oh, it's all about my voiceover business, when you're trying to connect with a client and give them a gift for the holidays. It really, I know just the simple fact that you're showing a personalized, something that's deeper than just a, oh, here, I did this job for you and you paid me for it -- I think if you show thoughtfulness behind that, you do not have to brand that thoughtfulness. Lau: Not at all. Anne: In order to be effective at all. Lau: No, because remember, you're a person first. You're a human being first. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: And it doesn't always have to be around the business. Anne: And I think it's more memorable, to be honest with you. Right? It's gonna be more memorable if I get somebody a present for their cat than a branded pen. And I could throw that branded pen with the the cat gift as well. Lau: That would be funny. Anne: It wouldn't be be all about the branded gift, because I know before it used to be like, oh, what should I get? I'm gonna brand it with my logo. I don't think it's about that anymore. I mean, it used to be a thing where people, that's what they did. But I think these days, it's gotta be more meaningful. And I kinda like that trend. I really like that trend. I think the last few years that have been a little tough on us as a society, I'm hoping that things get back to more meaningful, simpler, thoughtful gifts for celebrating. Lau: Yeah. I think the days of extreme swag are kind of gone where you gotta have a t-shirt, you gotta have a pen, you gotta have a -- Anne: Right. Lau: I think that's passé now. But you know, I have to tell you one time -- Anne: I do like a pen. I do like a good pen though. Lau: I like a good pen and I like a good pencil. I actually have a bunch of branded pencils, but I have a talent who's in MCVO and he's a working guy and he's wonderful. One year around Christmas time, he sent me his cup, his travel cup. And it had his business on it. Right? So it was clearly promotional. Right? But the thing when I, I looked at it, and it was so heavy and so well made and so intense, like the metal was so thick. Yes. And it came from one of the nicer stores in New York City. Right? I was like so impressed by that, that he would send that to me. I'm sure he is sending out a bunch of those to other people as well. I was like, my God, he probably spent 25, $30 on this cup. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So I'm not telling people to do that. You don't need to do that. I'm just saying, it took me aback that he valued our relationship so much. Anne: Right, to give you one of those. Yes. Lau: And at that time, I hadn't even booked him. I hadn't booked him on anything. It was just he was valuing and faithful about, you know, what was to come and excited about the future and this and that, and I thought gee, that was a lot to invest in a gift for someone, you know, who's new. I never forgot it. . Anne: I'm a big proponent about swag in not making it cheap swag. I think that no swag is better than cheap swag that is not useful. And so for me, like I say, I like a good pen right. Now, recently I had, and I don't have one in here to showcase, but I recently got, you know, the multicolor pens that have the green, the blue, the black -- Lau: Oh yeah, I love those. Anne: -- and the red? Okay. Yeah. So I just got pens, multicolor pens with Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions on it. So I send it to everybody that orders from me, that orders like my vocal spray. And I'll take it to every conference. And more than likely when I send out gifts, they're gonna get a pen just because they're fun. I mean, who doesn't love writing with different colors? Lau: Right, I'm with you. Anne: That kind of thing. But I think if you make a substantial investment, and I'm a big one about cups too, right? This was actually, so this Miir cup, when my husband went to a conference, he got one that was white and it was from one of the companies, and it was made from Miir. And we love that cup so much that I went and bought another one because it was such a good quality cup, like you said. So I feel like if you're going to create swag, make sure it's a good quality swag. And I always like to really think about, is it going to be useful? Lau: Yes. Anne: Not just trendy, but is it going to be useful for the person that you're going to give it to? Otherwise, I don't know if it's worth the investment. Lau: That's exactly it, Anne, and I actually thought I thought of one more that I used to love and give out. I don't know where they are these days, but I'm sure you can find them. I love these. They were the pens, thick pens that light up. And I love them because I was a director for many years. And so I would be in a dark room, a dark theater or a dark studio, and I just love the fact that I could write and light it up. Anne: Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau: Oh my goodness. That was like, I gave that out for years. I gave those pens out for years. So things that are utilitarian and very useful I think are so important if you can find them. Anne: So yeah, I think BOSSes, when it comes to gift giving and the holidays, I think the more thoughtful, right, the more personal, the better. Obviously you don't have to spend a ton of money, but if you're gonna make it swag, I say make an investment into decent swag. And then also let's talk about, are you busy? Are you not busy during the holidays? Should BOSSes worry if they're not busy during the holidays, Lau? Lau: No. No, not at all. I would never worry about that. I always say, you know, if you work in advertising agencies, if you work with talent agencies, if you work in casting, you would know this, that there are really down times. There are dead times, there are down times. You know, it's like a ghost town. And you have to just accept that. That's true in every single business, in every industry. You're just not gonna be making money every day. You're not gonna be making profit every day. You're not gonna be booking in closing every day. You just have to accept that. That was hard on me, you and I as addicted people to our work, it was really hard to be like, is something wrong? I went four days and I haven't booked anything. Oh yeah, because there's an ebb and flow. And each quarter is different and every year is different. So you just have to pay attention to that. Anne: That little piece of valuable, like that was just so valuable, Lau, that you said that as well. I say that a lot to my students and just, there is an ebb and flow. And as freelancers, this is something that is probably one of the hardest things to get used to when you come from, let's say, a corporate background and you're used to getting that paycheck on a consistent basis. Now all of a sudden there could be days that go by when you don't have a job. And it's okay, even for the veterans in this industry, right? Even for those people that are posting on social media where they booked 20 jobs this week, I want you guys to know that it's , it's an ebb and a flow. And so the times that you might see somebody post that they got a ton of jobs that week, well, maybe the following week, they aren't getting as many jobs. I don't know one person, unless you're on a roster or you're on a consistent basis or contract with someone that gets work every single day, it's very tough being that consistent, unless maybe you're doing promos and you know, you're under contract for doing -- you're on a roster, you're doing these specific jobs on a daily basis, but getting new jobs every single day, mm, I don't know anybody. . Lau: No, it's not a realistic. No, no, no. Anne: It's not realistic. Lau: You just have to pay attention to your, your stats. You just have to pay attention to those long ways. I mean, that's not to say you may not be working every day. Anne: Exactly. Lau: You may be working with clients every day catching up, do this, adding on, upselling, whatever you're doing. But when you're talking about closing or booking -- Anne: Yeah, right, booking, that's a different job every single -- Yeah. Yeah. That's just, yeah. And during the holidays is no exception really I would say a lot of times. I think it becomes even more unpredictable during the holidays, unless you're very used to doing particular jobs for the holidays and then in between the holidays. So yeah. BOSSes, it's okay. I think that we should all take the time to enjoy your holidays with your families and friends. On that downtime, if you want to work, well, maybe just take some time to reflect on what are the great new things that are gonna happen in the new year? How -- strategize what you're going to be doing in the new year, and take that time to re-energize. Lau: Mm. Absolutely. If you can, re-energize, rejuvenate, and re-envision everything that you're doing and just enjoy, like enjoy that time of year. Enjoy the weather, enjoy the family, enjoy, and inspire your business in a new way as you go into the new year. Inspire yourself. Anne: Love that. Love that. So yeah, BOSSes, happy holidays, BOSSes. Go and refresh and get inspired, and hope you have the most wonderful holiday season, from the BOSSes to the BOSSes. Great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also 100voiceswhocare.org, you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have a great week and we'll see you next year. Bye! Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Gratitude is not just a feeling. It's a practice, and it can change your life. This week, Anne & Lau discuss bringing gratitude into your life and biz. They dive into what gratitude can add to your life - a sense of purpose, community, & fulfillment. Take a moment to think about how grateful you are for your life, your family, and the people around you. What if you added just one more thing to that list? What if you took stock of what you're grateful for every day? A grateful mindset makes you easier to work with. It helps people feel good around you + attracts people & opportunities your way. So if you're ready to start crafting gratitude into your life, tune in! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited as always to have with me my special guest co-host Lau Lapides for Business superpowers. Woohoo! Lau: Hey! Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. So great to be back. Anne: It is wonderful, wonderful to have you. So I was noticing, Lau, lately, it's the holiday season or the holiday season is upcoming. And I have been seeing a lot of talk about gratitude and thanks and people have 30 days of thanks. And I think it's a wonderful thing. I love being able to express gratitude. I think it's healthy for us personally, and I also think it's healthy professionally, but I also think we should be practicing gratitude year round . And I think that gratitude can be a wonderful springboard for growth for not only yourself personally, but for your business. What are your thoughts? Lau: I could not have said that any better. And actually you took the words right out of my head. Anne: I did? Lau: Yes. I was just working with -- Anne: Great minds, Lau. Lau: Yes. I was working with some clients and we were saying, you know, this particular talent, whatever, they should be thankful for having this particular opportunity because it's so interesting, it's so unique and it's so hard to get. And I thought, oh my goodness, it's so true; having gratitude, being thankful every single day, like writing it down, speaking it to someone. Not just thinking it. Right, Anne, 'cause when it's in our head, it's not always as real as when we're doing something actively. Right? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: So if I'm thankful, I'm gonna show an action based on that. If I'm really grateful for something, I might tell someone that I'm grateful, and that action is so important to do every single day of the year. Anne: I consider it a springboard for so many good things that can happen from the start of just thinking of being grateful. It turns your mindset around from, let's say, complaining about something . Like for example, it's been cooler now in Southern California. I for one, love the cooler weather, but sometimes that means, well now I gotta turn the heat on. And so therefore now my heating bill is gonna go up. Whatever it is, I'm just gonna be thankful that I have a change of seasons here in California. And I don't have to turn my air conditioning on. So I think it's a mindset switch from the thinking part of it. And then I think like as you were saying, I think putting things into action, telling people about what you're grateful for or telling people, like I'm grateful, Lau, that you are here today with me doing this podcast. And I'm grateful for all of the episodes that we've done so far. And I'm grateful for all the ones that are going to be coming up because I think it's just done wonders for me personally to get to know you. And I have gratitude for you as a friend, but also as a professional partner. Really. Lau: Well, I am so grateful that you thought to even ask me to be on the program. In fact, I'm gonna go back before that. I'm grateful that we were on a panel together, right? The gods of the panel conferencing universe put us together. I'm grateful that we're assertive business women. And we're unashamed and not frightened to reach out to each other, even though we didn't know each other at all. And say, hey, let me celebrate you. Let me work with you and bada bing, bada boom, as they say, I mean, it's like, wow. All of a sudden project, you thought to invite me to your podcast, which has been an incredible experience. And it's just that journey. I'm thankful for the journey of going on the process. Anne: That is what is so cool about -- you're right. It's not just a one time thought of gratitude. It becomes this journey which can evolve into so much more. So one single thought of gratitude can evolve into much more. And that thought of, wow, we were on that panel together. Wow, this is great. This woman is amazing. Like I really like, let me reach out to her and let's see if we can form a partnership and see if we can work together in some way. We worked together. We now have this wonderful series of podcast episodes, and I have grown personally and professionally. So many opportunities have now opened up for our relationship that we've developed. Right? Opportunities to meet other casting directors, to meet other people, to meet wonderful VO family. And it makes me connect to my East Coast roots. I mean, there's just so many good things that have happened from the one thought of grateful in my brain. So I love the action where you can not only think about what you're grateful for, but put it down on paper. I love the whole people putting what they're grateful for on Facebook or on Instagram, whatever your social media platform of choice. I think if everybody could just put what they're grateful for, like every single day, wouldn't that just be a cool thing? Lau: That's a great action to do. It's what I call making sparks. If you can make sparks, then you can make fire. And making fire is really about -- they used to say in business, you know, I'm setting the world on fire. not in any negative way, but like I'm awakening territory that I want to inspire new relationships, new fertile grounds for business, for not only business, but also for friendships, also for social relationships. Like you have to have that action inside of you so that you can do the spark, so that you can catch fire a little. You can't always rely on other people to do that for you. Right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: And that one little spark, that one little thing you make could do a whole lifetime, could open up a whole lifetime of a trajectory of business and friendship and joy and health for you. And you go, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done that, all of this other stuff would not have happened. Anne: I just saw that happen with a client that I had worked with, and I had the opportunity while I was at a conference to meet in person with them. And I remember -- you wouldn't think that I'm a nervous type , but sometimes, right, especially if this client -- this client was very well known, CEO, president of the company, that kind of thing. So when it comes time for me to just meet face to face for the first time, I'm a little bit like, oh my goodness. You know, I've done some work and I've had some association, but not direct all the time. Lau: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And meeting this person and expressing my gratitude, being able to work with them and how much I enjoyed it, how much I admired and respected their work really led to this relationship where I felt great about it. But not only that, but I just got another invitation to do some more work for this client. So I believe that it truly led to other work. And it doesn't mean -- now look, I think there's so many things that go into creating a good relationship with a client. It's not always about, oh, Anne Ganguzza has the best voice. Right? It really becomes, oh, she's got an amazing voice. But also she is wonderful to work with, she's easy to work with, she's reliable. And so those things all come into play. And when you're paying gratitude or respect to your clients, I truly believe that it will come back to you like threefold. Lau: That's exactly it. And there's a, you know, doing the checkbox is like, it just makes their life so easy then you are a great package. You do know what you're doing, you're well prepped, you're professional. They don't have to worry about the trust factor. But there's so much more in all of that. There's almost like a mystique, like a mysticism of how people come together, how gigs get done, how process takes place. There's -- is something very mystical about that. You can't always explain every single step. Like how were we in particular invited to that panel? How did we notice each other and then reach out to each other? I don't know. There's kind of like an unspoken truth that we may not know what that is and it's okay to not know. But then is that makes it exciting a little bit. It's not completely predictable. All we know is we have the ability to assert ourselves and to put our best foot forward. That's like all we know. And then if it doesn't work out, we're eloquent about saying, okay, it's not gonna work out now. Hopefully in the future it'll work out. But being the fire starter, making that spark is really important and not waiting for someone else to do it. Anne: You know what else is interesting? And this is making me think now in terms of, I said, well, it's not always about your voice. Right? It could be the whole package. I truly believe, especially in these times where we want authenticity, we want believability. I truly believe that you, that you bring to the party, that unique part of you, if gratitude is a part of that, I think it's an attraction, right, for other people. And so, even though you might be reading somebody else's words from a script, that gratitude is part of your personal makeup. And that personal makeup is part of that you that you're bringing to the party. And I believe that the positivity, I think there's a lot of positivity around gratitude, that comes with just you being authentic and then bringing that authentic you to the script -- even if it's like behind, let's say, a character that's an evil villain or whatnot, there's still a part of you that you're bringing to it that cares that you're entertaining or cares that you're connecting. And I think that, like you said, that kind of part that you can't touch or feel it, that part is an important part of your voice and the package that you bring to the table. So I think that gratitude is one of those personality traits or one of those emotions that I think can really come out and affect your physical voice as well. Lau: No question. I think it affects everything, not just your mindset and your voice. It affects your body and how you move in space and how you make people feel. I always feel like, whether you're at home in your home studio, or whether you're at an office or going to someone else's rehearsal place or place of business, how do you make people feel at home? How do you host them in your space? And I, I always feel like if I come from a place of acceptance and gratitude, and thankfulness, and joy, and appreciation, they feel that. There's a pathos in that, there's an emotional pathos that they just pick up immediately that is not a self-centered, narcissistic kind of overly focused on myself kind of thing. But it's like, how are you feeling? Are you warm in this place? Are you comfortable? Do you have what you need? What have you. That I always feel comes out of knowing what to be grateful for. I don't think it's enough just to be grateful. I have to be specific. Just like my vocal delivery. I have to be specific on what am I thankful for? What am I grateful for? Let me write that down. Let me talk that to someone. Let me tell them. I mean, I don't know, it's kind of spiritual, isn't it? If I tell you, like you just told me, I'm so thankful for you, Anne, to have you as my new friend, my colleague, someone who's an inspiration in my life. Oh, I just got goosebumps. My eyes got a little watery on that because -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- it's emotional. It kicks up those muscles in you as an actor that go right into your muscles that are holding emotion, right? You see my eyes got a little watery when I said that. I'm not upset or sad. Anne: So it can make you a better actor. Look at that. I love that. I love that. Right? Some of the good things that come from feeling that emotion, and so much more moving forward energy than, let's just say, there's a lot of complaining going on in some of these social media circles. Right? And I feel like it's one thing to, if you have something that you're unhappy about, maybe, I don't know, either getting it out, writing it down, whatever it is. But I think a constant rehashing and circling and it's like some ball of negative energy. I don't think that that's necessarily healthy. So I think that the more positive things that you can spin and then encircle yourself with and discuss and tell and talk with and -- I think the more forward we can move. I'm always about moving forward and not like staying in a pool of negativity. . Lau: I agree. I agree. Anne: Right? Lau: And you know, now that I think about it, you know, I'm in the commercial market as an agent, I'm thinking that probably 80'% to 90% of the copy that we see for talent is copy that you would describe as warm, friendly, healing, paternal or maternal, inclusive -- all these terms that you think, okay, I'm an actor. How do I get that out? How do I do it on the spot? How about this, one tactic is to do exactly what we're saying and be grateful. Write down what you're thankful for. Really pay attention to it in detail, emotionalize it and feel it. So you can call upon that when you're doing that next healthcare read. You can call upon that when you're doing that next parental read to say, wow, okay, I remember, I can recall -- actors recall. I can recall what that actually feels like as me a person. Then I can put that into my read. And now it becomes much more authentic and realistic to me as a person. 'Cause that conversational thing throws us all the time. Anne: It does. Lau: What is conversational, you know? Anne: And you know what's so interesting? So I'm gonna see that commercial and I'm gonna -- corporate copy, which honestly, if you think about it, it's the same end goal, right? Commercial, selling a product or selling a brand, same thing with corporate copy. Even though you might be delivering information like, here's our corporate governance, or this is who we are as a company, or this is a product that we're talking about as a company -- it's just a longer format, but still the same end result, right? Companies want you to be on board with their product and with their brand so that ultimately you'll buy from them. But I always like to go all the way back and say, look, when I worked in the corporate world, I remember, and I think I mentioned this to you, I was employee number 246 , um, at the company that I worked with out of school. And I loved the product, I loved the company, I loved what we did. I was passionate about it. I felt like we were helping people. I want everybody that's voicing a piece of commercial copy or corporate copy or whatever it is that has a product to think about that company. Ultimately, I wanna look at the good and say that, well, whoever formed this company, let's say, I'm speaking on behalf of, I don't know, Hope Hospital or whoever that is, there was a good inherent in the formation of that company or that product because they wanted that product to help someone. And that's what I like to think in terms of when I'm going into a piece of copy that there's always a good for this product that's going to help people. And when I think that way, that brings out that positive, that gratefulness, that thankfulness, and that becomes the real and the authentic part of me voicing copy from that. So it goes beyond just, well, let's say I remember that feeling from being grateful here, but here, let's put ourselves in the scene. Let's be an employee of the company, and let's be grateful that we are offering something that can help others to do their jobs better, to be faster, whatever. Lau: And that's that deep dive empathy factor that we're all kind of going for. We may not use it all the time, but we wanna have access to that when we need to have access to that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And yes, it's not enough to say, oh, I understand it intellectually. I get it. I'm thankful intellectually that's the beginning. But I think the deeper dive is I can feel that I can live that with you. I can go through the hardship of it. I can understand the problem solving, the need filling, the care taking of that. I can get there and because I can get there, there is that true authenticity to that kind of read, whatever that read is, I would venture to say you could put that into anything, whether it was corporate or audio book -- Anne: Character. Lau: -- eLearning, right, character. There's gotta be a little nugget of something that, you know, what reminds me of Anne? Remember in all the famous sitcoms, like all of our favorite sitcoms from the past, they always yak-yak-yak-yak-yak. They had their studio laugh traps. Funny, funny, funny, funny. And then there was this one moment would land the entire episode where everyone would get quiet in the studio and you'd find yourself crying and you're like, why am I crying? It's like The Brady Bunch. Why we crying? It's like MASH. Why? Why did I feel that? Because they knew that. The writers were so smart, they knew how to take humor. And all of a sudden landed in such a way where we started to feel like, ooh, this is a real person and this is a real problem that we have to solve. And we're using humor to solve it in this case. And in the case of a sitcom, well, we're using all different kinds of tactics to solve our client's problems. Not just humor. We're using a lot of tactics. But the baseline is I have to land it. I have to feel what you feel. I have to move through it with you and I have to solve it. Anne: That's so interesting. And you said a word that I use a lot. And that's empathy. So empathy, when you are connecting with the copy and you are speaking to the person, right? You're speaking to a person who you wanna empathize with. What are their pains? What are their joys? What are their frustrations? And I think that there's so many emotions that play into the grateful, thankful part of it that we tap into. And I think what came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first? Empathy or thankful like . Do you know what I mean? I think they all can lead into a whole series of emotions. I think you can be thankful for just about everything in your life. I mean, I've always been that person that has tried to take what most people would consider a negative event and turn it into something that I'm grateful and thankful for. And one of those, and I've said it multiple times and I'll delve a little bit into it, is my cancer diagnosis. Right? I always, always had a passion for living and being grateful, but actually being diagnosed with cancer and then facing my mortality really made me a billion times more grateful for everything that I had and everything that I have now. And it's funny because I'm continually reminded in a way, because sometimes they say your journey is continual. Right? I still go to the doctor, I still get checked up, and every time I go to get checked up, you don't think I check, what am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? I'm thankful that I got through another test. I'm thankful that so many things. And in a way that's a blessing for me . And I can only see it as that because it helps me to always remind myself of what is wonderful in my life. What am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? And being in the booth, doing what I love, of course I was always thankful for it. But boy, am I thankful for it now because it's something that I was able to do literally two weeks after a major operation, I was be able to get in my booth and do something that I loved, which I was thankful for, thankful that I was able to do that and thankful that I was still there to do it. Lau: And you are not just a survivor now you're a thriver. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: Right? Because you're really utilizing this journey as one big tool of knowledge to understand how do I unlock, how do I unlock that chest of deep emotion? Like deep feeling, deep empathy. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And that to me is like, that's the ultimate truth. And even for the listeners who say, oh, I can't do any of this, I don't get the, any of this. Even from your business standpoint, just from your business standpoint, it allows you to come outside of yourself so you're not just self reflecting all the time. Anne: Right. Lau: And open up the gestalt of your world. Really just see the full map of what's around you when you have that moment of thankfulness. It just makes you remember that, oh my gosh, I have a mother, or I have a a husband, or I have a child, or I have a dog that I love so much. What would I do? What would I do without that dog? Anne: And that all contributes to not only your personal, but even your professional because of what we do, which is so I think part of our person, it's so personal, and it's so gauged on how we can be real and authentic. And that is, that's a privilege to be able to get paid for that. You know, to be able to get paid, you know, as an actor, right? To get paid for being able to bring those emotions to life and feel and express. And I think when it comes to being thankful and grateful that the action, again, I love the action, write it down what it is that we're thankful for. But also let's express it. Let's take it one step further, right? So how can BOSSes benefit from being thankful and grateful? Well, I'm gonna say outside of your own personal growth and your business growth, extend that to your clients, right? Extend your gratefulness to your clients to really secure -- I mean Lau, you and I have talked about securing relationships and nurturing relationships. I'll tell you that's one thing that will nurture your relationship with your clients, express to your gratefulness, to your clients. And don't just do it once a year, you know, at the holidays or twice a year. At any given point, just a simple note. It makes you feel good too, right? It does. But email or you, you pick up that phone and you're just like, Thank you. I am so thankful for the opportunity to work with you. I really appreciate it. And I think that that just extends goodwill. And it can help you grow your business. Lau: Anne, I had a new colleague, a co-producer in New York that I'm working with now, who said to me when we, not when we very first met, but within the first few months, he had come to one of my events, and he wrote back to me, I'll never forget this, he wrote back to me, he said, I'm so grateful to be a part of your life and your studio family. Thank you for including me in that. Just the way he said that, and that was on email, just the way he said that. I kept it. And I never forgot. I just thought that was the sweetest, kindest, most beautiful moment. As someone that I didn't know really a stranger, at all, who felt like he was so included. And I knew in that moment, you know in that moment when someone says that to you, Anne, not only are you doing your job, but you're also being a really progressive and thoughtful human being. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: You know what I mean? Anne: I love that. Mm-hmm. Lau: 'Cause it can't just be about business, right? It's gotta be about human, human people and what we're doing and giving to one another. That's really what it is. No matter what holiday you celebrate, if you don't celebrate any holidays at all, every day is kind of a holiday. Remember Madonna, Holiday, celebrate. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Every day should be a little bit of a holiday for you to celebrate life and what life is offering to you. Anne: Mm-Hmm. I totally agree. And I think extending that gratefulness and that thankfulness to your clients, I think that is the epitome of maybe not every single day, but absolutely that email. And I think also because we are so isolated in our studios -- I keep going back to like when I was in the corporate world and I would go into the office every day, and I would be surrounded by people or you know, when I first started in voiceover and I would go to an audition, I would be in a room full of people who are auditioning. I mean, it's kind of like being at the water cooler. And I feel like the gratefulness and thankfulness needs to be even more so because we are so isolated these days from the pandemic -- well now, we're getting more back into face to face where I think that makes an even more meaningful contribution when you're thankful and grateful and you're there. 'Cause you can see it, you can feel it. But if we are in our studios a lot of the time, I think we need to go an extra mile to showcase thankfulness and gratefulness to our clients. Because it's not so palpable for not like with them physically. Lau: Mm-Hmm. And on top of that, I mean, I think we would be off track if we didn't mention that every day you're gonna get something that gets boomerang; it's going be thrown in your path, a little obstacle, a little problem, a little something that doesn't go well. Be thankful for that. Anne: Yes. Lau: Be thankful because those are opportunities for you to learn and grow and feel hardship and feel fear and feel insecurity because that's what your client is feeling. That's what your colleagues are feeling. That's what people around you are feeling like -- Anne: That brings the empathy. Lau: -- understand that. Yeah. I wanna be able to live that a little, not all day long, but I wanna be able to be in that and understand it so that I don't think, oh, everything's gonna be smooth sail. Everything's gonna be easy going. No, I have to be thankful for the moments that teach me things that I didn't know, that I wasn't willing to look at or learn and now I see it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And being grateful for those moments, the moments when they're not all shining and rosy just again turns that into a positive moment. And, and of course positivity is a springboard for so many wonderful things. So, I love this conversation. I talk about gratefulness like every year right around this time because everybody's grateful and I talk about it, but I love the way that we deep dove into gratefulness and thankfulness and how it can positively affect you BOSSes out there by practicing it every single day. So Lau, thank you so much. Really. Yeah. I am grateful for this conversation. I loved it. Loved it. Lau: I'm grateful for you and how we unpacked this today. Anne: Right? Lau: It was really quite amazing. So thank you for that. And I'm grateful that this has recorded so that we can reflect on it over and over again. Anne: Well yes. Absolutely. So I am going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and show gratefulness and thankfulness with other BOSSes and clients and colleagues. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also guys, if you want to give back and have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We are grateful for you. We love you and we'll see you next week. Take care. Lau: Take care. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What gets you through the hard days? Purpose. It's what keeps you going when things are tough and when life seems overwhelming. Purpose is your why. Your VO biz is not just a job, it's an expression of who you are and what matters most to you. This week, Anne & Lau talk about what purpose is, why it matters (and why it doesn't have to be all about profits), + how you can identify your business' purpose. They also discuss ways to make sure that your clients, agents, and peers can feel your passion in your presence + hear it in your voice. Finally, they talk about how clear communication of your purpose can help align you with other people who share similar visions and goals. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm excited to bring back very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey! I'm awesome. I'm loving being back as always. Anne: I love this series, speaking of the business superpower series. So as business owners, we are superpowers, and one of our superpowers, Lau, has to be our purpose, right? Why did we get into this whole voiceover thing in the first place? And I think it's really important for us to understand what our purpose is and bring it to our business. I've been in this business for a long time, and sometimes that gets thrown by the wayside during the busy days. And sometimes we can maybe forget what our purpose is in the business, but I think we need to realign ourselves with who we are and who we are as a business and what is our purpose. Because people and potential clients align with that. And I think it's important these days. Lau: Yes, well said, Anne. We were just saying before that we start out with purpose when we're starting a business, but the purpose may change. It doesn't always stay the same through the years. If you're have luck and fate and love and passion, and you have a lot of longevity in your business, you become more and more purposeful and more and more subdivided in the reenvisioning and repurposing your purpose. And that, you know, that's something that all of our superheroes that we know and love have in common. They all have purpose. It's like to save the world, right, from certain destruction. Anne: Right. Lau: One of my purposes is to offer the world something specific that helps solve their pain point. What's their problem? What's their need? What is it? Anne: Exactly, what's their problem. And I'm going to say that it's important these days to have purpose beyond profit, right? There should be some element of your purpose that not only are you in business to make money, but you are also wanting to bring value to society or value to a cause that you might believe in, and something that I think your potential clients can hear clearly stemming from your business and get on board with, because I think you'll really end up with a lot of customer loyalty if you get people on board with your purpose. So it's not just to, I wanna voice a national commercial. I know that when we first start in the industry, we start with something very close to us. Well, it's a passion, you know, a lot of people getting into it. I love to create character voices, or I read to my children a lot. And so -- I've been told I have a good voice. And so I wanna be able to bring something to my career with my voice. I wanna be able to use it. So I think we need to look further and deeper into ourselves beyond that sole purpose of, yes, I'm passionate about voicing, but what else is it that you wanna bring to, let's say your business, to society that can help to, I think, elevate you and motivate you forward? And especially as you said over the years, like we kind of conquer and divide or divide and conquer and, and create more aspects of our business. And yeah, sometimes we start to really lose where that purpose -- where did that go? What am I doing this for? Lau: Hmm, yes. It's like losing an inner compass for a lot of us that start out extremely strong. I think it would be fair to say as a sweeping generalization, that many entrepreneurs, many solopreneurs start out with a high level of zest, of passion, of what used to be inserts that none of us ever knew; that was the Retzin. Like what's the Retzin in our purpose? So you gotta have that because that passion, that purpose really inspires you through the difficult days, through the tough times. You're right. It can't just be profit driven because there are gonna be many days where you're simply not gonna make a profit. And it's unrealistic to think that it's my business -- yeah, my business should be making profit all the time. I actually thought that at one point. Anne: News flash! News flash. . You may not make a profit every day. Lau: It sounds ridiculous. But it's like one of my actors, literally, literally this morning, I was talking to her and she said, I'm concerned -- she had switched agencies. And she said, I'm very concerned. I said, why are you concerned? She said, I'm not getting that many auditions. I'm getting like, whatever a week. I said, well, wait a second here. First of all, you have to examine -- I use the word intention, but purpose is great, fits right in right here -- like, what do you realistically want here? And what is your purpose in doing this? Surely it can't be that you're gonna get auditions all day long and book gigs all day long. Anne: Right. Lau: And make a profit all day long. Right? A lot of people actually do think that way. They think, well, I'm here. I'm talented. I love what I do. I'm ready. so why aren't I getting the outcomes that I'm expecting? Well, life isn't like that and business isn't like that. Business is really about relational management. How are you paying attention to the details of the client and what is their purpose and identifying it, like determining do they have purpose? And is it specific enough? Anne: Yeah. And I think that purpose probably starts when people get into the voice industry. I have so many people that I do consults with and there are people like, well, you know what, it's the pandemic, I'm at home. And I wanna be able to work from home and make money. I need to make money. And I'm like, well, okay. So that purpose is not as developed as somebody that I would necessarily wanna work with. So because their whole purpose is to simply survive probably or make money. And that's not necessarily the best purpose to come into the voiceover industry just simply because it's freelancer, and, and yeah, news flash we don't make profits every single day or maybe we do. But in order to get to that point of making a profit every single day, I think there's a lot more steps that need to be taken in terms of evolving your business and growing your business. But in the beginning, it's almost like a self-centered, I have a passion for voiceover. I enjoy it. I'm passionate about it, but I think it needs to go further than that. So it's a passion for you that you love to do, but what can it bring to your business? What can it bring to your potential clients? So for me, for example, some of my background, I worked for a short bit of time in orthopedic industry and in medicine. And so my voiceover genres have evolved into medical narration. And so I really take heart in wanting to voice something that will help people. And so my purpose, when I'm reading the back of that pharmaceutical label, it's not so that I can make money. It's my gig. I'm making, you know, $1000 or whatever I'm making. I'm imagining that I am helping someone who is frantically reading that label to make sure that they're taking the right dosage and to make sure that they're not gonna have crazy side effects and what to do in case they are, and where do they contact? What number do I call? And so I'm really thinking about that purpose, going beyond just me getting paid for the job. I wanna make sure that I'm able to bring my voice and my help and my service to people, to society. And that is just one small example. It's another reason also why I do eLearning gigs, because I feel that my purpose in life is to educate and to be -- I feel like that's really where my sole purpose is, is to really educate and bring education to other people, to help them grow their businesses or grow their voice over careers. And so for me, that love of teaching extends to my business, to my client. And so I take pride in the fact that there's purpose in that. There's purpose in this podcast. You know, this podcast stemmed from my wanting to give back to the community and have an educational resource for people that wanted to find out more about the voiceover industry. Lau: Mm that's great. I love that. What a great soliloquy and you know what? I just had a visual, speaking of branding and everything we talk about with business, I had a visual of like cleaner, like Windex cleaner or one of those cleaners. Why? Because on the front label, you almost always see the word multipurpose, on the front label. Okay, so that's the claim that they're making is that I can use it on my stove and my sink and I can use it on the windows. Right? It makes me think we need to have multipurpose as well. I think its a misnomer to think well, I just have one purpose. What's my purpose? Anne: Yeah. Lau: We're multidimensional human beings. And I can have the purpose that I honestly wanna help someone. I wanna guide them. I wanna sherpa them, if you will, but I also want them to create a viable return based business. And then I also want to lift the ethos of the company or what have you. So it's a multidimensional, multi-purpose framework that I think we can create versus this idea of, oh, I just have one thing in mind. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I was thinking about this this past week and I wanted to tell you, Lau, the one thing that I love about you, I honestly feel and I get the vibe that you are more excited even than I am to get work for me as an, as an agent. I really feel that because you reach out and you're asking me questions and then I can feel and hear the excitement. You're like, oh, I've got an opportunity. And I really believe that you get so excited about bringing opportunities and bringing job fulfillment to your roster. But I think it's more than just job fulfillment. It's about helping us to grow. And I really feel that from you. And so it's like practice what we're talking about, that makes me want to align with you even more. And so it really does my heart good to feel that from someone that I'm working with, because that makes me wanna work with you more. And I really believe that if we have a purpose that is to serve our clients, right, in the very best way, that's gonna be very obvious to them that that is what we are there. We are there to help them, to help them grow, to help them sell that campaign, whatever it is. If you are admitting that through your job, through your voice, through your interactions with them, it's very much a feel and something that makes them want to work with you again. Lau: Oh, thank you for saying that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I deeply appreciate that. And it's all true. Anne: It's true. It's very true. Lau: And I feel like you can feel that from an email, you can feel that from a text, at least I can and you can. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I can feel the level of connectivity. Anne: In three words. 'Cause you're busy, and you send me three words and I'm like, oh God, she's excited. She's gonna get me an opportunity. I can tell -- Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: -- from that short sentence and it's so amazing that you can do that. And it's like a magnet. And I think that that is something that we all can learn for our own selves in understanding our purpose and understanding us wanting to be more than just the profit making business. that's out there doing voiceovers. Lau: I would venture to say purpose is addictive. It's addictive. It's catchy. It's something when you're around, it influences you. You know, we talked about influencers all the time, but how do we influence our peeps, your VO Peeps and our audiences to move in a purposeful, mindful, specific and honest way is how we demo what we do, how we role play, what we do. It's hard to tell, but, but you guys should do this and you should do that. And then, then they don't see it in you. They're watching, they're mirroring psychologically. They're saying, Anne, I wanna see that in you. And when I see that in you, all of a sudden, I feel like I wanna do more. I feel like I wanna commit more. In fact, I wanna try, I wanna take more risks. Anne: It's motivational. It's inspirational. And again, if I go back to this podcast, I specifically remember, gosh, the podcast is now I'm gonna say close to six years old. Lau: Woo! Anne: That's a commitment by the way. This podcast is, is a free resource for people, my heart wanting to give something back to the community. And interestingly enough, I feel like for myself, when I got to a point in my career where I was not so frantic, but about, oh my God, am I going to make it? Am I going to be okay? And I started to feel the success, I wanted to share that and give back. And that became the sole mission of the VO BOSS podcast was to give back and to provide an educational resource. And even more so like these series, the superpower series, my AI series, you know, that's something that, again, I wanted to be kind of up front and educate myself and help educate the community on what's coming up in the industry. And what do we need to be on the lookout for? And that all comes from a place of wanting to help and wanting to provide resources so that people can use those resources to intelligently make decisions about their own businesses. And hopefully people that listen to the podcast feel that. And they, they can feel that from me as I continue to bring phenomenal guests like yourself onto the show so that we can help to be a resource. Lau: No doubt. No doubt. I do agree with you. I think even if you're not thinking in a philanthropic mindset, there is this essence, this circular, however you believe, a karmic essence, a circular that what you put out into the world -- and I teach this to my children and I try very hard to live it -- is put out exactly what you would want to get back. If it were a boomerang and I said this to someone, I did this to or for someone, would I want that for myself? Anne: Yeah. Lau: That old do unto others. But it really is true because there is a circular effect in our industry of what I'm putting out. And sometimes it's not profit driven, as we know. And sometimes we don't get paid as we know. There's always this karma effect of wonderful things that come back to you, and it could be in the form of just like a quick one liner. Someone says you change the way I think. You change the trajectory of maybe my life and you think, whoa, I love paychecks, but no paycheck can make me feel that way. Anne: It reminds me exactly why I loved education. And that's why I was in the education industry for 20 years. The fact that I had an opportunity to make a difference. And the funny thing is, is that it wasn't even about like, was I a good teacher? It was the fact that I had the opportunity to help and shape and hopefully motivate, hopefully inspire a mind that can grow and be successful, and I can be happy. And there is nothing, nothing better than that feeling of watching a student of yours go on to be successful. And I I'm gonna say I'm so, I'm so blessed, I really am, to have experienced that for so long and continue to experience. And I, I think that's why I think I was born to be an educator, which is why so much of my business is about education. Now, of course it's about voiceover as well. But like you said, there can be multiple purposes. So is there just one purpose? No, not necessarily. Right? I have that purpose of, I wanna be that voice that helps people when they're reading the back of the pharmaceutical label. I wanna be a voice that can educate others through an e-learning module. I also want to actually have something that can, you know, like my podcast or my VO Peeps group that can help the education. And again, VO Peeps was also stemmed from that same reasoning when I moved from the east coast to the west coast, I wanted to meet people who were in the industry. And I thought, well, what better way than let's create a group of people who are voiceover artists and VO Peeps began. And then I wanted to provide resources because I missed teaching. So it's funny because of course I love voiceover, but it turned into like multiple compartments of my business. And I think that anybody today in the voiceover industry, I don't know if I'd be so bold just to say this, but I think there are times as we grow, we do need to have multiple paths of income, right, in this industry. So I might not just be doing voiceover for all of my money. A lot of people it's just starting out have to have a part-time job or multiple revenue streams until they get to a point where voiceover becomes their full-time income. And that's where your purposes come in. Lau: Absolutely, Anne. I mean, that's, to me, it's a given, to you it's a given, but we do have to educate people that that is the nature of being a contractor. That is the nature of being a trades person, that you are going from job to job. And you kind of have to remember that throughout your life, but also it's okay. Like give yourself permission that whatever you call yourself, you're a creative, you're an artist. You are, whatever you call that thing in you that drives you, that gives you purpose also multitasks in different creative directions that you have to realize. A lot of times you can't be satisfied in just one direction. You have to be multi-directional -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- multi-purposeful, right, to feel like -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- yeah, excited and revived, a little splash in the face, 'cause you got a new project. I'm taking on a few new things right now that scare me to death, which I love. Because I haven't done them before. You do that throughout your whole life. Anne: I think as creatives, right, that's part of the whole creative mindset, is that I've always said I can't be bored, which is probably why I love to learn. Right? It's probably why I loved technology. I was in technology 'cause things change, things evolve. I liked fixing things. I was in technology. I would fix broken computers, all of those things that required me to do different creative things every single day. And thus, yes, I think as a creative entrepreneur, that's why multiple purposes can be beneficial. And for me it's so much about what can I give, and even in our performances, I'm always telling my students, it's not about your voice. It's about your connection to your listener, and what is it that you're going to do for your listener as you are servicing that piece of copy, right, for a company that's selling a product? What is that product going to do for the person that's listening? How is it going to help them? And that is where the glue is. That's where the connection is. That's where sales become successful. When you are able to help people, right, with a product that will make them feel better, look better, whatever, help them in some way. And that's what becomes the attraction, that force. Right? Lau: So, Anne, would it be fair to say that no matter where you're at in this game, that you've gotta think multi-purposeful and multidimensional that, on one hand, okay. It's a truism, I'd like to work. I'd like to be trained well. I'd like to have great equipment. Okay. We get that. But what is the higher purpose? What is the more multidimensional purpose of how -- let's say you're doing educational reads, eLearning -- how am I affecting a generation of middle schoolers as I do do this? Anne: Sure. Lau: How is my messaging? My voice, but my messaging here really taking effect? And is that an honest purpose that I have? Anne: Sure. And it can go beyond just the purpose of the effect of your voice having on let's say certain campaigns or people, but it can go on to say, well maybe I decide to take a percentage of my earnings. And I donate it or whatever that is. Or as part of my day to day business, I have a certain set amount of time where I mentor people, and it doesn't even have to be in voiceover. It could be in any sort of thing. Right? So a lot of companies have that philanthropic part to their business, because again, it's that what is a higher purpose for your company, for your business? And it's funny because a lot of people will relate it to like the creative aspect of it. What is my purpose? But in reality, defining your purpose in your business, right, it goes beyond just what is my purpose? But how does this purpose affect your business? And how is it that you are communicating that purpose? Is it clear? Do potential clients understand this about you and your brand? How are you communicating that purpose out to the world? Lau: And is it in alignment with the population or the clients that you're working with or out of you? Or are you out of alignment? I think identifying that and being honest about that -- sometimes you're just not in alignment with the people that you're working with or clients that you're working with. And then it's not a good thing that. Anne: Yeah, usually that doesn't end up working out. Lau: Yeah. I mean, you might have an organization that's highly philanthropic, and they want you to have an honest connection to the work you're doing. And you're coming in and saying, well, it's good gig. I'll add it to my resume. I'll get some money on it. It'll be good. People will hear my voice, but their vision is a lot deeper than that. And they need a lot more emotional commitment. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: You have to kind of be honest about that and say, is this a good fit? Are we spiritually aligned? Sometimes you have to think that way. Because sometimes you're not. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And we can hear that. Like we get that. We can hear that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: I can hear that in a demo even. I can hear it demo when someone is just not aligned, not present. They're not aligned. They're not present, they're doing it. And it's more of a perfunctory exercise than having joy. Some of my closer friends in the industry talk a lot about having honest, happiness and joy in what you're doing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And I think that's okay to have. It doesn't have to be this heavy, serious thing all the time. Anne: Right, right. Lau: There's okay to have humor. It's okay. To have joy. It's okay. To have that level of cookiness and quirkiness 'cause you're creative. That's what creatives do. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? We get paid to be quirky. Anne: Yes. There you go. Lau: In a way, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't sound that I shouldn't. Well, but sometimes you get hired for that stuff. Sometimes you have long term relationships 'cause they know how quirky you are. Right? And we're both quirky. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And sometimes that becomes kind of part of the purpose is like one of my purposes is I'm gonna stay true to my persona and my personality while I service the client in the most honest way that I can, but I don't wanna lose myself. In other words, I don't wanna lose my identity. I don't wanna lose who I am. That's a toughie. Anne: Sure. Yeah. A lot of times when we think about, okay, do you align with certain ideals? Right? Do you align with diversity, inclusivity in casting? That's a big one today, right, that all around in corporations, it's all about inclusion, diversity and that sort of thing. So is that something that you align with in casting? Are you willing to pass on opportunities if you feel that it's not the right job for you. Are you gonna pass on an audition or are you gonna recommend somebody that you feel would be better? So that goes beyond, well, I'm gonna do every single job, and it's not just about like the political genre, right? Because the political genre, that's very obvious. Right? So are you on one side or the other? And so this really just goes beyond just a political genre kind of thing in terms of like your purpose and aligning yourself with ideals and making them known to your client. It's about everything that you do. It's about how you communicate it to your client. It's embedded in your performance. That's what I love that you, you brought that back into the performance aspect. We can hear it if you are not aligned in that way. And so I think for the BOSSes out there, if you haven't sat down and just, in a quiet area and just thought about your purpose, maybe jot it down or your purposes, right, what is it that you really are trying to do with your business that can be more than just creating profit? Lau: Yes. I'll leave you on this note. My dad who recently passed away, not too long ago, he was a great businessman, great entrepreneur. And he would give me loads of wisdom, loads of gems of wisdom. And one of the ones I will never forget, way before I even started a business, he would say about starting businesses, he'd say you need to do what your plan is, what your plan of action is, do it for free, and do it for a long time to make sure that you wanna do it because once you start a business on it, don't expect to make money for a good five to seven years. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Right? And the Eastern philosophy is like 10 years. Like don't expect to really make a profit. Okay. So I always kept that in the back of my head. Don't mistake that for devaluing what you do. Oh, I'm only gonna do it for free and work for free. It's to say like, if you take that as an example, don't take it too literally. Take that as an example and say for a period of time, whether it's philanthropic or whether it's just for my own sense of knowing what my purpose is, I'm not gonna collect money on this. And these situations are appropriate for me not to collect money on this, and see how I feel about the work that I'm doing. Am I really willing to put in X amount of hours without billing X amount of hours? I found that very telling, and certainly actors who come from actor backgrounds spend years not getting paid or getting paid very low wages, and still do it, still wanna do it, still wanna continue it. Anne: And that's so interesting because if you've ever read any of Bob Bergen's posts, he's all about, I didn't start doing it for the money, and he had a purpose. Lau: Right, right. Anne: And so he's very adamant about that to the point where I think some people kind of look at him and go, okay, okay. Okay. But I've gotta, you know, pay the mortgage. Lau: Exactly. Anne: That kind of a thing, but it's the thought, right? So this is -- Lau: It's the thought. Anne: -- purpose driven beyond profit, but it doesn't mean that if you're a good business, you cannot create wealth, right? Not just, you cannot make money, wealth in so many ways, right, is that you are contributing to society in a positive manner, as well as making money doing it. And so therein lies the question. So what is my purpose? And have I stayed true to that? Or my purposes, right? And have I stayed true to that? Lau: Yes. To piggyback onto what you just said, one testament to that may be that you are working, you are having a viable business -- take on some charity projects, take on some philanthropic, take on some projects where you're mentoring or maybe you are doing something for visually impaired or what have you so that you can balance it out in your heart and your soul and say, not everything is a paycheck, not everything is an invoice, not everything is how much I can get -- but really get you off that just for a moment to say, oh, this may be another purpose for me that is a slightly higher purpose at times. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: That can feed me in a way that the other jobs may not be able to feed me. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: And kind of balance it that way versus all or nothing. I either work for free or I work for as much as I can get. Anne: Or if it is for a profit redistributing that, right, maybe giving back in some other way. Right? Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: So sharing the wealth, so to speak. But yeah, what a great conversation. Lau: What a great conversation. Anne: I really had some time to think about it. I really enjoyed writing that blog article. It just really led me to think about, what am I here today doing, and how did I start off, and how have I evolved over the years? And I can say, I'm grateful that I'm still true to my original purpose and also my evolved purposes. So I feel like I'm staying on track. It's something that I, I don't take for granted either. So I think we should all take some time and to kind of check deep within and see if we have that purpose and if we're following that purpose. Lau: I love it. And now we can all be like the cleaners. Like we can all be like Windex and 409 and say we're multi-purpose. Anne: Multi-purpose. Lau: We're gonna clean up. But we're multi-purpose. Anne: I love it. All right. Wow. Great stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Great stuff. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to my sponsor, 100voiceswhocare.org. If you wanna find out how you can make a difference, and this can be part of your purpose, go to 100voiceswhocare.org and find out ways that you can give back. Also big shout-out to sponsor ipDTL. I love, love, love ipDTL and networking with BOSSes like Lau. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Everyone's got Imposter Syndrome. But it doesn't mean you're a fraud. In this episode, Anne & Lau dive into why we are so attached to the sound of our voice and how fixating on that can be a barrier to success. Voice is an essential part of how we are perceived, which affects our personal and professional lives. When you listen to yourself critically, it's easy to get lost in technical details. Your voice is your greatest tool, so stop doubting it. It is an instrument and the vehicle for your craft. So Bosses, love your voice. Embrace it. And if you still need some extra pointers to overcome your inner critic and use your voice to the fullest, listen up… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm Anne Ganguzza, your host, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau, hello. Lau: Hello. Hello. Glad to be back as always. Anne: How's your week been, Lau? Lau: Amazing. Busy, amazing, wonderful. Went on vacation. We were talking about this earlier. Went on vacation up to the Berkshires 'cause I'm in New England. Anne: Of course. Lovely. Lau: It was a workcation. Anne: Ah. Lau: Right? I never leave. I never really leave work. Anne: Yes. I try to, but you're right. I don't leave either. Although I will say that I do notify my clients ahead of time that I'm going to be on vacation and may not be as responsive, so we have that. But then there are other opportunities that I make sure that I have my travel gear set and ready to go, so. Lau: Well, you're much better than I am. I don't let anyone know. I pretend as if I'm like still -- Anne: As if you're still working? Lau: -- in my studio. And then I'm in some bathroom somewhere in Lennox, Mass during intermission turning my phone on going, yeah. Okay. So you've got a call back and you've gotta get there, and like I have to turn my phone off. I don't know. I'm not getting reception. I'll talk to you in like an hour and a half. Anne: Oh my God. I love it. Lau: . Anne: So funny. Lau: But you know what? It's our lifestyle businesses, right? Anne: It is. Lau: BOSSes know that's the lifestyle that we live. It's not just a nine to five. It's really what we love, what we do, all the time. Anne: Yeah, yeah. As long as there's a balance. Now speaking of superpowers, I wanted to bring up something this week because as you know, I coach my students, and frequently, and I know that you also are dealing with multiple students as well and people on your roster -- I wanna know if you get this as much as I do. I don't like my voice. I just don't like my voice. And I thought to myself, you know, that's so common actually. I hear that a lot from my students, especially my female students actually that they don't like their voice. And I thought it would be a really interesting discussion to talk about the psychology behind that. And why do you think it is that people don't like their voice? Lau: Gosh, I don't think your podcast is even close to long enough to even answer that. I mean, it could take centuries to answer that. I don't know. I think there's a lot of reasons why. I think first that always comes to my mind is that thing of which got really hot, really, really hot, I'd say in the last couple years, the imposter syndrome became hot and known. It was this unknown thing that really women suffered from, primarily women suffered from. And it was, I think the first one that brought it, believe it or not, that brought it out was Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers put it in her routine. And then Harvard university said, wait a second. Is that a real thing? Let's do studies on it. And then they spent 10 or 15 years doing studies on people who get hit with it. Right? Anne: Well, I think it's absolutely always been a real thing. It just hasn't been talked about, right? Lau: Yes. Oh, very real. Anne: I'm the first person to admit that imposter syndrome hits me still every day. And I always try to turn it around into a good thing where if you have imposter syndrome, it's motivating you to continually grow and excel. But this thing about voices, I'm gonna say, myself, I even went through it myself so that I can identify when a student comes to me and says, ugh, I just don't like my voice. But I always say, remember in the first place, a lot of times, the reason people get into this industry is because someone has said to them that they have a nice voice and that maybe they should consider voiceover as a career. And I've had people that told me that in the beginning, but after I started studying and started really pursuing it as a career and getting work and then falling into the, oh my gosh, am I ever gonna get hired, that kind of a confidence -- oh my God, I must not be good enough, and that imposter syndrome that really kind of hit me, I started to really criticize my voice. And I used to listen to my voice and say, what doesn't sound -- I wanna sound like this person. I want that rasp. My voice does not have a rasp. It just doesn't. And no matter how hard I try to physically create a rasp, it's difficult and it could hurt my vocal cords. So I gave up doing that, but I gave up kind of coveting other people's voices and really started to understand that my voice needed to be embraced, number one, because how would I ever sell my voice if I couldn't embrace it? And the other thing is I think that maybe people spend too much time listening to the sound of their voice, and that I feel might be the biggest barrier to acceptance because, should we really be listening to our voices in terms of technically, how does it sound? I think really as voice actors, right, Lau, you know what I'm gonna say? Right? As actors, we need to be acting and the concentration should not be on how we sound. Lau: That's right. And I know when I record myself, I can't appreciate hearing myself as I'm recording. I oftentimes will not even wear the cans. I won't even wear the headphones because I want to concentrate on the true connection of what I'm doing here. And if I'm hearing myself -- and I was never an air prompter person anyway, so I, I was never in that realm of having to be proficient at hearing myself as I'm delivering language. So I always deliver with headphones off, and I, I suggest to clients, at least for the beginning phase, don't put 'em on because I want you to make an authentic connection in what you're saying and who you're saying it to, who you're speaking to. And that's, you know, acting basics, right? 101. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: But I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of, Anne, talking about I'm not good enough. I won't be accepted. I'm not reaching it. Anne: I don't sound good enough. There's always that. Lau: I think that that's so primal. Anne: Does my voice have what it takes to deliver? No, it's not about your voice. It's about you. Lau: It's about, you. Anne: It's about you. You know what I mean? It's about you and your personality and what it brings to that voice. And I'm, I'm just gonna say about the headphones. Now, when I first began, I was in a construction zone, and I had to wear headphones in my booth to make sure that there were no low vibratory sounds that were coming through. So I totally understand what you're saying about taking the headphones off. But I feel that in all honesty, right, if we have the headphones off, we can still sometimes listen to ourselves. You know what I mean? We're still like, these are amplifying everything that we're saying. So for headphones I'm of the nature that yes, whatever works for people to not be distracted by their own sound. I think that if you're a true actor, you can act with headphones on and with headphones off, so. Lau: Of course, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's really how you train. Anne: It's helpful. Lau: Yeah. How you train yourself, what technique you build, that's repeatable for you that doesn't distract you away from what you're trying to do. And I always say to a client, I say it's ridiculous in the sense that if you went to Kraft macaroni, or you went to Nike shoes or you went to Toyota, would they honestly be thinking -- they meaning the advertising company, the people who are creating and producing scripts -- would they honestly be thinking right now as I deliver this to you, this sucks? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: They may talk about it at their wine party, up in Aspen over the weekend that they don't like the product, but in the moment of pitching it, in the moment of selling it in the moment of connecting to the end user, it is the best thing in the world. Not only is it the best, you can't live without it. You really can't. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And there's some sort of disconnect between the product, that physical inanimate object, that and us, our identity, our physical person, our vocal sound. There's a disconnect that we then become part of that product. We become part of that branding. And so for us to say, I don't know if I'm doing this well, I don't know if I'm good enough. I don't know if, what is in essence saying the product isn't good enough. Anne: Isn't good enough. Lau: The product is subpar, and that's a danger zone for us. We have to be very careful of that because we sell value. We don't wanna sell devalue. We don't wanna devalue our value, and whatever you do privately is something else. Anne: Sure. No, I love how you brought it to the product. Because in reality, remember we are the voice of the product. We are the voice of the company. And no matter what you're doing, even if you're doing, I'm just saying, if you're doing corporate narration, if you're doing explainers, again, you're still working with a product. And if you're not doing that, let's say if you're doing anything else, if you're teaching, right, you're teaching more than likely, right, you become a teacher. And you are teaching either about some product or maybe a concept. And so again, you don't wanna devalue the content that you are speaking of. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And that's such a wonderful example that you brought up. I'm so glad you said that. Lau: Thank you. And you it's interesting, Anne, it seems to be unique to us and our profession, us meaning talent. It seems to be unique quality that we see in many, many people that we don't see quite as much in other industries and other professions. It would be like, ask yourself this, if you do this, if you do this, ask yourself this. Would you appreciate going to a doctor's office? And the doctor comes in and says, I don't know if I know how to listen to your heart. I mean, I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna do it well enough. I mean, what do you think? And you'd be freaked out. You'd go running outta that office. You'd go, I don't want this woman or guy touching me. I -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? If you went to a dentist, and you had to have your tooth drill, like, I don't know if I can, I don't know if you'll like what I do. I'm not sure. I mean, it sounds funny to us, right? Anne: I might make you hurt . Lau: Right? Anne: But you're right. It's so true. Lau: And it doesn't mean either that they're qualified, and it doesn't mean either they're the best at what they do. It just means it is innate within their training, within their experience, within their identity, that this is what they do. This is the product they offer, the value they offer. You're gonna pay for that service and it's as simple as that. Hopefully you won't complain about it. . Right? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But it's so unique unto us is to take it so personalized and to say, but do you approve of me, but do you like me? So going back to your original question a half an hour ago, like what is the psychology of this whole thing? I think it does really start with us as a human being, as a person. Like where is our self-esteem? Where is our level of confidence? Do we feel good in our own skin? Do we feel ashamed or humiliated in honest connection? I mean, ask yourself these questions as a human being in the world and then try to work with it. If the answer is yes, I have a struggle with this, I have a problem with this, then work with it. Don't work against it. Don't shove it under the rug because it's gonna come out out in your next audition. It's gonna come out in your next reach out. Anne: And I think, honestly, it's again, I love how you just brought it down to that level, but it's also remember you're honoring the copy. The copy has been crafted by someone who has put a lot of thought into it, for the most part we think, right? And that there is a message that needs to be delivered. And you need to communicate that message effectively. Now Lau, when we talk back and forth, I'm certainly not thinking to myself, do I sound okay when I talk to Lau? Lau: It's funny to think that, isn't it? Anne: Right? Does my voice sound -- maybe I should talk to Lau like this. And no, because that just, it's not bringing ourselves. It's not bringing who we are, and you know, we say it over and over again. Bring yourself to the party. Right? Well, your voice and yourself, your voice is not mutually exclusive from yourself. The way you're treating it, if you're listening to it saying it does not sound good enough, then that's what you are essentially doing. You are splitting apart the voice from who you are. And I think ultimately, yeah, you have to be the one that can bring yourself to the party. When we connect as human beings, that's what I care about. I don't care, Lau, when you talk to me, what you sound like, I care about what you're saying to me and what it means to me. And I think by trying to just bring it back onto ourselves where most people might think it's an insecurity thing -- in reality, when you think too much about how you sound, it becomes more of a vanity thing or an egotistical thing, where you're not thinking about the client. You're not thinking about the product or the copy that you should be honoring. You are thinking more about what you sound like on top of that copy. And that's not where your voice needs to be. Your voice needs to be in the act, in the action of delivering that copy to the best of your ability and the most effectively on behalf of that client. Lau: I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about the messaging. We use the fancy schmancy term story and storytelling, but storytelling is about the messenger. What message is being delivered? And what is that stake here? What is the value to the audience of that message? Is it gonna fix their life, fix their health? You know, help them find a pet, and, and help them educate their child, or have a better quality health regimen? It's always something in there for the end user that will potentially better their life. Now I'm not saying that that is, that's not a truism. It doesn't actually do it all the time. I'm saying that that's the claim that is being made in the message. And if you lose the message, you lose the claim. And that is a problem. That can be a real problem. Anne: You say the word value, and that is so important. The value to the client. It's not your value. It's the value that you are bringing to the client. So it goes from a place of how can I help you, the client, not how can I sound beautiful when I say these words? It's how can I help you? And the place has to come from within you and not from just the lips and outward because sometimes when we're listening to what we sound like, that's all we can concentrate on. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And there's no story, there's no message. There's no emotion. There's no point of view. Lau: Exactly. And you brought up a great point there. You know, a number of the roles -- I call it roles, theatrical roles -- but a number of the, the voicing parts that we see in scripts now are not always clean, what we call clean or polished. Sometimes they're dirty sounding. Sometimes they're heavy sounding. Sometimes they're sad. There's a lot of doleful scripts. We see a lot of heavily poetic and weighted scripts about things that are thoughtful or lugubrious, or, you know, you've gotta hit a lot of different kinds of feelings and tones now in scripts that are not always pretty. They're not always perfect. And they're not always lovely sounding. Sometimes they're gritty and gravely and that kind of thing. So that to me reflects life as well. We don't always sound good in life. We don't always -- Anne: Imperfect. Lau: -- say the right thing. Yeah. We're not always PC or whatever. We're just not always right. So the idea of wanting to fix myself all the time, I need to be right. I can't be wrong. Did I get it right, is wrong because there is no right. It's really just according to the vision of the listener, who the listener is and what the messaging is that gives them the value that they're looking for. Anne: Yeah. Imperfect is actually perfect. Lau: It is. Anne: I really believe that. And I think because that connects to people on a very raw and real level, and that's where you get a lot of the casting specs say, make it conversational, make it natural as if you're talking to your friends, make it real. And that is probably the hardest thing for us to do as voice actors. And I think we spend our careers honing that skill of being a better actor and being more real and authentic. And like you said, their scripts are all over the place. Sometimes they're sad and doleful, and we need to be able to be in that moment and create those scenes and react to those scenes. And that is not always a pretty sound. I think one of my favorite corporate narrations that I always play from when I'm presenting corporate narration is a voice actress who, her voice cracks. And it's not a perfect sound. And I think a lot of my students, they feel like they have to be articulate, and I'm like, we're not articulate in the real world. As long as you can understand what I'm saying, contrary to popular belief, you do not need to be articulate because when you're too articulate, then it becomes something that is difficult to listen to. Lau: That's exactly right. And this idea of perfection and this idea of polished is just not where we wanna go oftentimes. It just, in fact, it's the anti that now, it's the opposite of that now. It's like, what's our largest generation now? Our largest generation is millennials in the United States. And so we wanna emulate the demographic to get an empathy factor that, oh, this is me. This sounds like me. This person feels the way I feel. They understand me. Well, I can't sound like that in order to get that feeling, right? It's a more colloquial, more chill, more like laid back, kind of feel to it. And that's hard. I think for the over 40 crowd, like my generation generation Xeer, it's really hard to say, wait a second. What happened to all of our theater acting background? What happened to all of our speech and rhetoric? What happened to, well, it's there, you have to trust it's there, but it's not always applicable to what we're doing in the script. You know what I like to do? Anne, I like to say, change the word conversational and natural, which is throws people oftentimes -- change it to environmental, change it to contextual, because we wanna hear you being somewhere. We wanna hear you involved in something. Anne: Oh I agree with that. Lau: It's not like sound this way. . Anne: Sure. And besides that, I'm always adding in, I wanna hear movement. I wanna hear movement in the scene. It's not you in a monologue. There's so many people that will do the work and say, okay, I'm Anne, I'm talking to my friend Lau, and we're in the kitchen. And they do all that setup work. And then all they do is read the words. And it becomes a monologue to them. Even if they start off talking to Lau, right, they tend to go off, and then they're speaking into the air. And I'm like, if you were on a stage and you were interacting with someone, like you should be with the listener, right, interacting, you would not be necessarily going off on a monologue, 'cause that would be impolite, right? You know, you need to let them in on the conversation. You need to check in on them once in a while. And also when you do that, if you can move in the scene, that makes your audition or your read a whole lot more impactful, I think, than just standing in the same place. Because on a stage you wouldn't stand in the same place typically for too long, right? You'd have some movement. And so that translates to so many things. Right? In the middle of the script, stop and take a look. And where are you? What happened in the scene? Did it change? Did you stand up? Did you walk across the room? Did you look at Lau and see if Lau is shaking her head in agreement or does she have a question? And so I think if you can really set those scenes up, even in something that is written very like dry, and I see this all the time in, in narration scripts, you wanna make sure that that's a more engaging script. You wanna bring that script to life. Well, how are you gonna do that when you're just standing there in the same spot and the energy is only coming out of your lips? Lau: Exactly. It's unnatural. Anne: It's unnatural. We need energy in our hands and our body movement in the scene changes. That I think is just, is so important to bring that to life. Lau: It's, it's so important. And for those folks who are listening in, who have actor training and have trained under the discipline of Sanford Meisner, Meisner's work was based in the concept that all we're asking you to do is act natural under purely unnatural circumstances. So it's, it's really okay. I'm tricking my brain into thinking this is real, even though I know it's not real, whether you're in a theater or a vocal booth or in front of a camera, it couldn't be further from real. Right? But there has to be a piece of you psychologically that stays alive that says I am doing the kind of work that I'm trained to do, that I want to be doing, that I'm enjoying doing. And I give myself permission to fall, to jump, to fail, to make mistakes, to do what real people do in real time. This idea of like, oh, I shouldn't mess up, I shouldn't make a mistake, I should get it right the first or second time -- it's not a natural way to think because natural terms in nature is real time for us. And in real time, we make tons of mistakes and stammer and we stutter and we forget information. Right? Anyone who loves SNL, love that show loved it because of all the mistakes they made. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were the funniest. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were hilarious. Right? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: It's like, you know, we always say, how do you determine the difference between an amateur and a professional? And it's easy. They both make mistakes and quite oftentimes a lot, but the amateur will fall apart. They'll melt down. They won't be able to function. The professional will do a little this and a little of that. Sorry about that. And then move on and use it, use it. Anne: People are so forgiving. They really are. And again, like I said, if all you're thinking about is what you're sounding like and having that perfect voice, and then scrutinizing and, and hating yourself because you don't sound a particular way, think again. Because I was on stage too a long time ago, but also when I used to teach in front of students, right, I would get so excited -- like I was always told that I was a great teacher because I was so excited about the stuff that I was saying. Right? I was passionate. I was enthusiastic. I wanted to share. And that was what made me a good teacher. And I oftentimes would stand up in front of the class. My brain would be going 100 miles an hour, but what came outta my mouth would be gobbledygook sometimes. But they forgave me. I did not speak perfectly. Sometimes I like, oh, wait a minute. I forgot something. So imperfect. I had students who were so much more aligned with me and who really listened to me because I was imperfect. And I was able to admit that and be honest with them. And I never once tried to say, oh, I know more than you. I just wanted to inspire and motivate. Lau: Right. Right. Anne: And that is something I take behind the mic with me. No matter what genre I'm doing specifically though, e-learning, absolutely. I give my heart. Because that is, that is what people connect with. Lau: Yes, absolutely. Anne: But I cannot afford to listen to what I sound like. Or even if I go there a little bit when I'm editing -- so sometimes when I edit, yeah. I get a little tired of my voice. But then again, that's listening to myself and being nitpicking to get rid of breaths and stuff like that. And then it's just becomes tiring because I've been doing it for three hours. So that's different than not liking the way your voice sounds. And so I think you have to just have faith in the fact that you are in this industry, people are hiring you and paying you money for your voice. And that is giving you the validation that, you know what, you're probably doing a pretty good job. Otherwise you may not make any money. You not be able to do that. So. Lau: If you're not being invited back, and you have no bookings, and no one's working with you, then you'll say, oh, I have to evaluate this, what's going on. But you know, you have to psychologically be okay with living in the world of imperfection. You have to live -- certainly in the technical world. It's a tech glitch a minute. You have to be okay with living in the world of mistakes and the mar, the scar. Like the scar makes us interesting. Like, I don't want you to cover it up. I don't want you to laser it off. I don't want you to Photoshop it. I wanna see it. It's interesting to me. It's like your experience, you know? Anne: It's that whole filter thing that's going on now, right? In social media, like are you prettier with the filter or without the filter? Guess what? You're pretty without the filter, you're pretty just as you are. Lau: And you have to measure, you have to see, how am I measuring pretty? Like, what is my measurement for that? How deep do I go with that layer? And I'd like to think as we age and we get a little older and more experienced, we go deeper, deeper, deeper below the surface of the skin. We go like really deep and say, wow. There's a lot of beauty in there that I can bring out that is not aesthetically beautiful. But that, like, I go back to Shakespeare, 'cause I think Shakespeare is everything, and the characters, especially the female characters, but the male characters as well, some of them are really dirty and gritty and ugly and -- but you can't play them until like you're 40 and you understand a little bit about life. You understand a little bit about the grit of experience. Maybe God forbid, you've lost a child. Maybe you've gotten divorced. Maybe you've lost money and then gotten money back. Like these things really can become beautiful lessons and stories in our life that we can share and message versus hide and cover. And I like to think of scripts and copy in that way. It's like, if you're a mom or you took time off, let's say you took 20 years off and you're coming back, don't hide who you are. Don't hide your history. Bring your history to the table 'cause psychologically that's gonna give you a more authentic read in what you're doing potentially. Anne: Yeah. And I'm also gonna say not to give the read that you think people expect of you. Again, what makes us interesting is our imperfections and our flaws. And so I highly, highly encourage and, and recommend BOSSes that you look beyond, like you were saying, beyond the surface, hashtag no filter. Right guys? Like we want those reads. We want those reads that are real and raw and don't have the pretty sound filter put on there. We should have a, a hashtag for that in social media for voiceover, hashtag no pretty voice or -- Lau: That's -- I love that. Anne: You know what I mean? Lau: I love that. And check, we do checks all the time. Check your psychology at the door. Check it. Like not over-analyze. You know, analysis can be paralysis, but, but really check it like, am I okay with not being perfect? And am I also okay with -- oh, here's another one, Anne. Not thinking I'm perfect. Because we don't wanna work with people that are so vain and so arrogant. And so like I did my takes. I'm all done. And if you don't like it, it's too bad. I wanna work with someone who they're 50, 60, 70, 80 years old. And they're like, I'm learning still. I'm exploring. I wanna develop. Can you share something with me? I'm not like done. I'm not finished. I'm not like a final product myself. You know, I'm a work in progress. Anne: Yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us really should think that way anyway. No matter what stage we're at. Right? Always something to learn. Lau: Well, I think it always stops you. It stops your progress and what you could potentially learn and become when you just think that you have it all. You got it all down pat and it's polished and you know it. And that's a big question I get too in coaching, Anne, is like, should I go after this, Lau? Should I go after that? And I said, well, I don't know if you should go after it. Ask yourself the question authentically. How do you feel about it? How are you connecting with it? Where is your voice right now? I mean, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the questions are really, how do I wanna develop my vocabulary right of knowledge? Anne: How should I go after this? Or let's make a plan to go after this. And I think if the desire is there, hey, it's all part of the journey too. I'm a firm believer that, you know what? I would say to myself, well, I've never gone after animation because I don't know, for me right now, the passion is not necessarily in characters. But I'll tell you what, I'm a character in everything that I do. And I'm a character in medical narration. I am a character in corporate narration. I'm a character in commercial, and it just may not be as animated or cartoon-like, but absolutely we are all actors. We are all characters. Lau: And these days, you know in character work a lot of times, you know, in some of the largest scripts that we see coming through for Pixar and Disney -- Anne: It's real. Lau: They just want real sounds. They want real VO. They don't even want character voices. They make a big note in bold, no character voices. And they said like the leads, these are the leads because we had, you know, A-List Hollywood actors playing these leads. So we wanted to hear who Ray Romano really is, who Tom Cruz really is, who Queen Latifah really is. So that's kind of trickled down, I think in a nice way to the larger population where character now means like, well, who are you? What's the authentic sound you make? That we -- we'll consider that a character. Anne: Absolutely. I love this conversation. Lau: It's inspiring. It really is. Anne: So BOSSes out there, love your voice. Embrace it. Be real. Absolutely. All right. So Lau, I am so excited we had this conversation. I can't wait to have another conversation with you next week. So BOSSes out there, if you would like to make an impact and contribute to the communities that give back to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. It allows me and Lau to connect with you. BOSSes out there, find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions can be as nerve wracking as a performance, but the best way to come out on top is to be prepared. Anne & Lau are audition experts. When you break it down, an audition is a sample of your performance, and bosses, we know you know how to perform! The best way to start an audition is with copy you feel confident reading and that showcases your acting chops. Making genuine connections with the other actors in the space and casting directors is what keeps you on their mind long after the read ends. Confidence goes a long way in audition settings. Do not shy away from live auditions, and having your 10 favorite scripts on hand will make the impromptu auditions feel more manageable. Want to learn more? Tune in for the full scoop… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back the one and only Lau Lapides to the show. Thank you, Lau, for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Lau: I'm thrilled to be here as always, thrilled to be here, Anne. Anne: Well, Lau, it's been a week. Lau: And I feel like it's been a month with how much our -- how busy our lives are, right, Anne? Anne: I know, right? Lau: I mean, it's like so much. Anne: But this week you were a part of me besides the podcast, besides the podcast. So I'm very excited to be working with you as an agent. And so you did something that I have never experienced before. You called me into a last minute audition. And I said, oh, okay. I didn't have any script. You called me into a Zoom room. And I was like, okay, is that gonna just be me and the casting director? Oh, that's so lovely for Lau to think of me like that. I'm really excited. Okay. Sure. So I joined the Zoom session and there were like, whoa, quite a few people on there. And I didn't have a script. I didn't know what was gonna go on, what was happening. Let's talk about this audition that you called me into and your process for these things. Lau: You were such a good sport. 'Cause you could have said no, I know it's not in your vocabulary to say no, but -- Anne: It's so true. Lau: -- you could have. It would've been totally fine if you said no, but I was really pleasantly surprised to see that not only you, but everyone in that room said yes to coming in the room. Now I'll set it up for you since today we're talking about auditions. This was a little bit, I would call it unorthodox. It was a little bit unorthodox the way we set this up, but that's kind of my middle name and I'm alright with that. I go with that 'cause I like to have a little fire, a little fire in life. So the premise of this audition was that our friend and producer coming in from Switzerland, Lamar Hawkings -- amazing man, amazing, who is very, very close friends with my colleague Joanne Yarrow that I work with at my studio -- invited him in to say, hey, you are doing amazing projects. I mean my friend, Joanne -- who I have to introduce you to, she's fabulous -- she's the voice now the American voice, of La Occitane campaign that he handles. And so I'll send you that. It's awesome. So I'm like, Ooh, we have a wonderful agency, MCVO. We have a wonderful membership base at the studio, talent inner circle. Why don't I invite some of our really great people with great voices to come in and do a private audition for Lamar? And he was completely up for it. He said, I would love that, Lau. I'm looking for new talent. I'm doing a new animation soon. I'm doing commercial campaigns. I'm doing this. And that. He's very, very busy. He's in Switzerland, but he's actually from the states, originally from Texas. And I said, great, let's do it. So we set it up for yesterday. Now here's the thing. A bunch of the people knew that the audition were coming because they were in the studio base, the talent inner circle studio base and had RSVPed that, yes, I want to attend this. I'm able to, I've been screened. I'm accepted in, and I'm coming in. Great. But then I had a number of open slots that I said, I've got to get more MCVO people knowing about this and coming in because this is a legit audition, and it's a live audition. It's something I really love to do and love to host. Anne: That was so different for me. I mean, I felt like I traveled into LA and went to an in-person audition again almost. Lau: Exactly. That's exactly what happened. And fun fact from the background, 'cause no one ever sees what's going on in the background, I was on vacation. I was up in the Berkshires. Like literally I'm at lunch with my husband, and I'm texting like a wild woman. He said, what are you doing? I said, you know, I'm working. It's always a work vacation for me, a workcation. I said, I'm getting more talent to come in and know about this audition, who don't know, from MCVO, and I'm texting you, and I'm texting Jay Michael Collins, and I'm texting Terrell, and I'm texting Carol, and I'm texting this one, and I'm texting Mike Pollock. And all of a sudden, all these people are saying yes and jumping in, and I didn't even have time to tell them what it was. I didn't even have time to say anything. Anne: That was absolutely the thing. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. And I'll admit to you, BOSSes out there, I got in the room and I didn't have copy. And I thought, am I missing something? And thank goodness that Lau, you gave me a little bit of information and said grab some commercial copy or we have some. When I got in there, I didn't see it. Maybe it was there and I just didn't know where to look. So I got off and I thought, oh, well that must look horrible. . Lau: No, not at all. Anne: I went to go grab copy. And then I came back in and then it was like, what two people left to go? So I made it just in time. Lau: And then Carol Alfred, who is facilitating, right, one of our coaches, she's texting me, ah, Anne Ganguzza is on. And then she goes, she left. What she left? Where'd she go? And I'm like, Anne, where are you? I thought maybe you were having a technical issue or you had to go and do something. Anne: I went to go find some copy because I didn't wanna be called on and then say, I don't have copy. You know what I mean? So I went to go grab some. Lau: Right. And now, you know, very rarely when we do this kind of audition, we always have copy on hand for cold reads. I know some talent don't prefer to do a cold read. So we say, we'll bring something you wanna bring that shows you off, but. Anne: I was ice cold I was ice cold, but I said to myself, okay -- and BOSSes, listen, when your agent asks you to come in and audition, it's a sign that they believe in you, number one. And that they would not have asked you to come into an audition if they did not feel that you were worthy of doing an audition. And there was no way that I was going to disappoint my agent. Lau: Oh, and I appreciated that so much. And some of the others that came in, it was hilarious. I'm gonna save some of the texts that were like, hey Lau. Uh, that was great. What was that? Where was it? Anne: Yeah, exactly. What just happened? Lau: What happened? It was, you were like, you were in some matrix. There was, there was some vortex that came through like a storm, but I gotta tell you, and this is good for your listeners to hear, every single person who came in that thought they were unprepared or didn't have copy or weren't sure what they were doing did a fantastic job. And it just reminded me what pros we all are when we get in a room. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We have passion. We love what we're doing. There's this super connected quality of being in a room with other talent, 'cause that's unexpected as well to be in a room with other talent like that. Anne: I was gonna say absolutely. One of the other things was, oh my God. And everybody else is listening to me. It's not just the agent, the casting director. It is like 50 people in the room. I don't know how many people were in the room, but there were more than one. There was quite a few people listening. And I happened to just come in really quickly with J. Michael Collins who was reading. And then that's when I said, I don't have that copy. And so I skedaddled outta there. And fortunately you had said, just grab any copy. And I said, okay. So I went and I grabbed some copy and it was, my read was ice cold. But again, like I said, BOSSe so important to know that when your agent gives you an audition, it's because they have the faith in you that you're gonna be able to execute. And I think that that is the one thing that really saved me. And I will admit to you, BOSSes, when you're thrown into a situation like that and you're not quite sure what's happening, you're kind of running on adrenaline, and it's a little scary, I'm just gonna say, not knowing what's happening. But I think it was a wonderful lesson for me, even as long as I've been in this industry, just to trust in your agent, trust in yourself, have faith in the process and just go forth and execute. And what's the worst that can happen? I mean, well, I thought of a billion things like, I was like, when I was done, I was like, I'm not quite sure how that went, but he said, nice job. So I'm okay with that. Lau: Yeah. And I gotta tell you, Anne, that enabled me to what I debrief with him -- we're debriefing on Tuesday -- I can now go down the list and say, do you remember this person? You remember this? You had a visual, not only in sound, you had a visual. You had more than one read on a lot of people as well. you had a character read, you had a commercial read, this, that. And to be able to really discuss the performances for particular projects that he's working on -- so it's never just like this one hit wonder and go. It's always like, Ooh, I like the quality of this person, that person. Can I call them back? And I see, hear their demo? Can I, whatever; it's just like an introduction to you. Anne: And that I think is brilliant in reality, because like you have introduced your roster to a potential client and the visual, yes. Now, you know, of course I'm sure there's a bunch of people in their studios going, well, this is an audition over Zoom. And then the engineers in there will be going, I don't know if Zoom is the best quality, but honestly I think that any good casting director is gonna know from your performance, whether it's in your studio or through Zoom or whatever, they're gonna understand. And they're gonna know a good performance when they see one. Lau: Absolutely. And this particular producer, from what I know of his background, well, he has a very rich history of live performance and theater and media. Anne: And that aligns with it. Lau: He gets it. He gets that, because I had people who were in cars and bathrooms, in their workstation. They were, I mean they were coming in from everywhere. So his business brain, I'm sure was saying, oh, they're busy people. They're not just sitting in a spot waiting for me. They're working, they're running, they're traveling, they're on vacation. They're this or that. I'm thankful that they took the time to come in so I could see their work for projects. Anne: And that means a lot too, I'm quite sure. And especially again, like we're always trying to make in auditions -- and I love this episode because this is becoming so much more than just a normal audition type of episode, where we give you the tips and the tricks -- because the experience of this one was so different, and it really, I think can teach us how to make ourselves memorable in a multitude of ways, not just knowing the conditions, right, of the audition. Number one, you called us in cold or you called certain people in cold, and that can resonate well with whoever's listening for that potential client. And also again, there's that visual, and it is like the in person auditions that -- God, I used to go in and it was great. I'd see everybody in the lobby. Now the difference is that I would audition in front of just, you know, it was just me. And it wouldn't be everybody else listening to my auditions. So that added a whole other level to -- it was almost like a workshop. But in reality, if you tend to get nervous in these experiences that could even potentially make you more nervous. So again, having the ability and the privilege to be able to make that kind of impression on a potential client, I think is wonderful. And Lau, you're one of the few people I know that do this. And so I think it's a wonderful thing, even though I had no idea what it was when I was doing it, but , but now I know. Lau: Do we ever, right? Anne: But now I know. Lau: Therein lies the educational value when we talk about professional development is it really one audition or is it as you called it, Anne, an opportunity to build a relationship with a wonderful producer, who's gonna have a lifetime of stuff. That's I think it's the latter, really. It's never just one audition for one thing. It's always like, hey, you're cool. You're a cool, dude. You're a cool dudette. I like you. Right? I like your vibe. And that's where if I were to say to your listeners and also to my audience that came in, many of which were coming in from the studio membership, we're at different stages of the game. I would say one of the things I want you to really consider and remember is that when a producer meets you live, they wanna see a little bit of who you are. They wanna catch your personality and your energy and your persona a little bit. So especially him, especially Lamar. So don't be afraid -- you don't wanna take up a ton of time, but don't be afraid to just chill a little bit and have a little bit of that conversational feel to what you're doing, because you're really meeting a real person in real time. It's a great opportunity for them to know a little piece of your actual personality versus I'm just a voiceover talent and here's my read. No, I'm Anne, I'm Lau. I'm J, and this is what I'm doing and I'm, I'm traveling and I'm whatever, that's cool. People like that. It's the goal of how do I make you feel? Am I gonna make you feel comfortable or am I gonna make you feel uncomfortable? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like the fact that you had the ability for everyone to kind of listen to everybody else's auditions. I, at the time though, because I was hunting down copy, and then I literally had another session that was coming up like after five minutes, I couldn't stay for a long time, but what I did stay for, I really enjoyed. And I heard people doing all different types of copy, and I thought, wow, this is really kind of cool. It felt to me like a combination of a showcase and an audition, an in-person audition. Lau: That's what it turned into that's and if you want to, I'm happy to send you the replay because we record those sessions and we hold those for archival purposes. If you want it -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- you could do the whole thing. It lasted about, I wanna say two hours, like a solid two hours. Anne: Wow. Lau: And we had a rotation of people coming in and out, which was amazing. I think we landed on about 30 people with the folks -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: -- who couldn't come, couldn't make it, no showed, new people jumping in, 30, like yourself, some of the country's top talent were there. And I was like, oh my God. We were like representing the country's top talent. I was so proud, so proud of everyone and not just the talent for what they delivered, but the kind of people that came in the room and were kind to him. No one pulled a fit. No one was a diva. No one was making excuses. That's all stuff, when we talk about auditioning, that you wanna steer clear of is like rule number one, I didn't wanna land my problems onto you. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Anyone who's had theater training knows that they teach you in conservatory, leave your trash at the door, right? Don't take it into the workspace. Don't worry. It'll be there when you leave; you can take it with you when you go out, you know, but try not to bring your stuff in with you because you wanna come in as an open slate, a pallet of possibilities. You know, we had talked about solving a problem, filling a need, but it's more than that. It's like, does this person have likability factor? Anne: Sure, sure, absolutely. Lau: You know, would I wanna hang out with them? Anne: And you know, what's so interesting is one of the reasons a lot of people get into voiceover is because they wanna almost like hide behind the microphone and not necessarily show who they are or show their face. And so this kind of just threw that on its side. Lau: And that was great. Anne: Yeah. And that again gives such a good impression, I think, just gives it a whole different dimension to the audition so it's not just the voice, but also the, the person and the personality. And I'm the biggest fan of -- look, people wanna connect with people and not just a logo or a voice. And I really feel that that is, is effective in our profession, that if we can connect with our clients as people, that really, really does a lot to, I think, really secure and, and enhance and, and make us memorable to one another. Lau: It's huge, Anne. I'm so glad you brought that up, the visibility factor, because I could have easily said, hey, take your visuals out. All I need to see is your name or your picture, whatever. Just voiceover's fine. Get people off the hook so they don't have to put on the makeup and the lipstick, but I didn't want that. I wanted them to have the ability, and many of them wanted to come on to be seen as people, and also to see the diversity of our crowd, like our people were coming in literally from all over the world, and everyone had a different look, a different age, a different feel, a different background. I think that's important in terms of having cultivating a community that is both educational and professional level. I just think it enriched everyone else to see the level of talent that was there, that the bar was very high. Age range ranged from like teens to probably 70, and every kind of background. And I think that's very inspirational for people to feel like I'm included. This is inclusive. Like I don't have to sound or look or be someone else. I'm me. And that's who I am. Anne: Right. Correct. Lau: And I think everyone did a fairly accurate job as to their brand, their quality because they felt as comfortable as they could feel in a room full of great people. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well that was it too. I mean, the fact is, is that I think it was a wonderful experience. Even if let's say I never get cast, the fact that I had the experience for just introducing myself to a potential client in this way has given me more, I'm gonna say confidence and really more confidence in terms of, well, auditions can be anything. Right? Be prepared. It's almost like, oh, I did a quick improv session there. So, you know? Lau: Exactly. And I think, I think COVID changed it to some degree where you don't have to be in an office. You don't have to be in someone else's studio. Your studio is the world now. It's really the world. You could be in your car. You could be in a bathroom. You could be anywhere potentially meeting someone, recording, whatever, the possibilities are endless. It takes me back to even before COVID, Anne, when, when we saw interviews like corporate interviews start to happen in Starbucks. That was one of the big coffee shops that I hear someone behind me, oh, they're having an interview. I'm gonna be quiet. That was a new thing. I don't know when that started. I wanna say maybe 10 years ago or something, that was a new industry standard that you didn't need to be in an office to have an interview. You could have an interview at Starbucks, and it's now kind of the same for us. Like we could do an audition anywhere. We could be in the mountains and do an audition, which is exciting to me. Anne: Yeah. I really love the additional opportunity to connect. So let me ask you a question then. So this is not the first one that you've done or is it the first one that you've done, first audition like this? Lau: Live? Anne: Yeah, live. Lau: In this way? Anne: Yes. Lau: I have done a number of these before. Not recently. This is the first one I've done recently with someone of this caliber in terms of a producer coming in from Europe, someone that I have the inside scoop on who's producing particular campaigns that I'm interested in and animations that I'm interested in for the agency, getting into that genre, that field. And I like it. I mean, I just personally, as Lau, just as a person, I yearn for that improv energy. I yearn for that feeling of like, yeah, let's just meet. All right, a number of people know, they're RSVPing, they're coming in. But then others may not know; they're coming in now. It's like real life. It's like a party, right? You invite your guest list. but then the guests may bring someone, the guests may invite someone else, da, da, da. It's like an authentic experience of what happens in real life when people are coming together, and they're meeting, and they're showcasing their work. So when we talk about showcases, it's not all premeditated ABC. It's like life networking is life. You don't know who you're gonna sit next to on the plane. You don't know who you're gonna be next to in the elevator. You don't -- and I would say, be careful, ladies and gentlemen, when you go in the restrooms, like be careful what you say, be careful what you do because your whole world is your oyster now for meeting producers and producers can also be mom and pop shops, people who are producing their own podcasts, what have you. You wanna always treat everyone respectfully and equally as the stars that they are in their own world, because you may be collaborating and working with them. Anne: Yeah. Good advice. What other tips would you have then in terms of not just this type of audition, but auditions in general that you've seen? Because you certainly are outside the box I think when it comes to the opportunities that you're affording people, which is a wonderful thing. Lau: Thank you so much, thank you. I would say, and, and just thinking back on that experience, some of the things that I would want to change and shift for some of the talent coming through. One is, and this is like an actor's rule, always have material that is great for you, that you love and feel comfortable with ready to go. It's like, whatever you wanna call it, your demo material, your portfolio material, whatever. Have your strong suits ready to go. And it might even be an audition or two that came in last week that you did a great job. It might be a recent booking. You just have to make sure of course you either have permission to use the script or it's in house. It's not gonna be used for commercial purposes. Or just re-craft it enough so that it becomes your own and you know, it's yours. It's good. It's something you feel comfortable doing. It's where your suit lies. I would have that ready to go. And I would have at least a half, a dozen, 30-second pieces ready to go for something live when it happens. It may happen rarely. But when it happens, it happens. Anne: Yeah. That's such good advice because I literally, like I mentioned, I didn't have it. I went and grabbed something that I -- thankfully I have a large pool of copy that, you know, because I work with, with people with copy. So thankfully, and I found something that I was comfortable with. So that's really wonderful advice. Now I'm gonna make sure that I have a few pieces set aside for if that were to happen again, absolutely. Any other tips? Lau: Yeah. And I have another tip too, and this is like the actor in you. So when we talk to VOs, we say, do you consider yourself an actor? Surprisingly many VOs will say, I'm not really an actor. It's not really what I do. I voiced this. That's what I do. I always like to use the word actor because I don't necessarily mean just acting values in the character. I mean, in your life. So like all the world's a stage, right? You're acting like a pro, you're acting like a coach. You're acting like a producer. You're acting in those role like just like an acting chair of a department or, you know, an acting politician, how we would use that term. So you're acting, so don't forget your actor values. What I mean is like some of the folks that came into the room, I noticed they had to let you know that they were in a rush, or they just stole a break, or they barely made it because they couldn't get outta work, whatever. Let that go, like play the role. The role is I'm coming into this session, and I'm totally ready for this session. And I don't know what's going on in the background. There's a bunch of chaos in the background. I don't know what's going on in the background. I'm acting as the professional in this moment, knowing I'm only gonna be here for how however long I'm here. And then I go back to -- remember, I said, leave your stuff at the door? I'm gonna go back to that. That's hard for people to do, Anne. I think that there's this confessional thing in people that they feel the need to tell you the truth about everything. They wanna tell you how difficult their day was or that their tire has gone down. And I barely made it here, and oh my God, my kid and the baby sitter didn't show up. And I always say, leave it at the door because it's not pertinent to the people that are bringing you in. It's just a waste of time, really, for them. You and I talk about energy a lot, karma, like stars aligning. I really do believe in that. I think things happen for a reason. And I don't want you meaning, not you, but the listener, I don't want you guys to ruin your karma by sticking wrenches in it of things that are happening, whether they're your choice or whether they're just happening to you -- don't bring it into the space because it can't do anything positive for your audition or for your exchange in the rapport building. It just can't. It's like an obstacle that you're putting in the way, and you're qualifying something and using it as an excuse. And you don't wanna fall into the victimization compartment. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: You never wanna fall into that. You wanna fall into the place where it's like, hey, I'm gonna bring you what you need. In fact, I could hire you. In fact, I could hire people for you. In fact, I could do this for you. You wanna be that person that they come to to fix the problem. They don't wanna be the person who creates problems that they don't have, If that makes sense. Anne: Oh, that's wonderful advice. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. So I would leave that. I would leave that outside of the room, and then one more thing. as the tech queens that we are, tech meaning coaching tech, I want that warm up. Some of the folks didn't warm up, and I could tell exactly who they were, who just did not do the vocal warmup because I know the quality of the reads that they could typically do, and they were rushing into it. Whereas others came in, they were already in a session. They were already recording. They were already vocally warmed up. They were ready to go. I could tell the difference. I don't know if you could tell the difference. I could tell the difference. Anne: I could tell the people who were absolutely ready. You know what I mean? And were like, bam, they had their material and they just -- Lau: They were right there. Anne: -- they just executed. Yep. yep. So yep. I could tell. Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that readiness that's like being on the bench, you know, as a sports player in the game -- Anne: You're ready to go. Lau: -- you're not in the game yet. You're really not there, but you're visible to the crowd. You're on TV. You're getting ready to get selected. And there's that state of readiness that you have to have so when they look at you, it's like, boom, I'm in the game. I'm ready. There is no transition time that you should need to go through. It really should just be there, present, and delivered. And that's hard. It's -- I make it sound easy. It's not it's transitions like executive functioning skill transitions a lot of people find difficult in life, is how do I pivot from this, to this? To this, to this, without any clutter in the middle of it? Anne: Yeah. I do have a question. Something that I thought, just because again, I wasn't there for the entire time, but I did hear people slating, which I think is fine, but people were slating with other talent agencies as well. And I wasn't quite sure about that. I thought why -- you invited me in, so I wasn't gonna necessarily say what other talent agencies were representing me. Oh, okay. So I was really thrown by that one and I thought should I say other talent agencies that represent me when you invited me in so generously and I just said my name? For me, it didn't seem right. But what are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. And, and now, you know, in retrospect, yeah, for this one, there was no right or wrong. It was totally clean, totally open and that would be the protocol, you're right. That would be the actual protocol because there was an educational value to this workshop, I allowed and wanted to people to slate what they have on their plate to have a high ethos, to show a high ethos for themselves. And because we're not exclusive anyway. We're freelance. But I hear you. Anne: Well, because of the invite, it was just, for me, it was like, well, I could say other, and to be honest with you, I just, that threw me. And so I just said my name, 'cause I wanted to be respectful of you who invited me in as an agent. So. Lau: And actually just post, just for listeners to know behind the scenes, 'cause they would never know this or see this, when we have a meeting and we debrief, and we talk about talent behind their backs, in a nice way, I'll make it clear that if he wants to move forward with anyone, he would do it through MCVO. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Lau: He would. It would be only in the case of like they're not with MCVO. They're exclusive with someone else. I handpick them to come in. Okay. That's fine. Other than that, everyone's with MCVO or in the tick membership. And so I'm like, so we're kind of representing everyone here. So he would use us as the agent and as the liaison to help with the step by step of everything, if he wanted to really call someone back. Anne: Yeah. Then I would say, just my contribution to this episode would be if you are in that position and your live slating and, and auditioning, I would say respectfully with the agent that invited you to that, you should at least have that agency unless it's been otherwise disclosed that you can mention other agencies that you are represented by. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Just my thoughts on that. Wow. Well, I wanna say thank you, Lau, for that experience. It's always a pleasure learning from you and talking with you every week. So I really appreciate it. It's been a wonderful conversation. Lau: Oh my pleasure. All the time. I can't wait for the next one. Anne: All right. So guys, BOSSes, I want you to take a moment and imagine yourself being a part of making a difference in our world and giving back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like BOSSes, like Lau and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Casting is global, digital, and massive. This week, Anne & Lau lead Bosses through the complicated world of casting. Resiliency & timing are key for booking that dream gig. Lau teaches us that not all rejections mean no. They often mean not right now. Anne shows us that we are every aspect of our business and that marketing well enough to get in front of voice seekers is part of your job, whether you like it or not! If you're feeling overwhelmed and defeated during the casting process, tune in for some (super) powerful advice… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides and Business Superpowers. Yay. Hey Lau. How's it going today? Lau: Awesome, Anne. So good to be with you. Love being with you. Anne: I'm so excited for this new series and actually, because you do a lot of casting, and I also do casting as well. I thought it would be a great episode to talk about casting because casting over the years, I'm sure, has evolved and changed. And a lot of times my students wanna know, well, what does it take to get in front of a casting director and impress them so that they get hired? Lau: Sure, it's a biggie. Anne: Who better to ask, Lau than someone that's been doing it for many, many years. Right? So let's talk about like, how has casting changed over the years? Lau: Mm that's a loaded question. I love the theme. I have to tell you, I love the superpower theme because innately, I think for actors, voice actors, there's this feeling of helplessness, of powerlessness, of waiting for a job or waiting for someone to like me. Right? You know, what did I do wrong? Why didn't they cast me? Why didn't they like me? And I love the theme of this show that you chose, because it's all about finding your inner power. Like what ignites us, what empowers us when we get to the casting, when we get to the agency, when we get to the hiring power, hiring people, how do we ignite our own power inside of us? So I love that. I love that. Okay. So it's a hard question to answer in the sense that it's so unique to each person. Every individual is a very, very unique experience throughout their performance life. But you know, I can give you a few tips along the way, in terms of, let's say you're starting out and you're early to market, and you're coming in, you're saying, huh, how do I get people knowing my name and hearing my voice? Well, for casting, I'll tell you one of the things that we're always looking for are people that are submitting a lot. They're really marketing themselves well, and they're submitting a lot, and they're unafraid to submit and resubmit because I think it's a truism in the industry that you're not gonna book the first job. You may not even book the second or third job or the 50th job. So what do we do? We have to have that tenacity, that inner power within us to say, it's okay. I can submit until the cows come home. And maybe, maybe they just don't need my value right now. So I'm not looking at this as a rejection. I'm looking at this as not a no, but a not now. Anne: Right? I love that. You know what, you're the first person that I've ever heard say that, the tenacity, submit, submit, submit, because I think for a lot of talent, they get discouraged, right? They're either like, oh my gosh, I've submitted. I haven't booked anything. And then they get down on themselves. And you're the first casting director that I've heard actually say be tenacious, submit, submit, submit. And actually, you know, I totally agree, because I feel like your name will become known as well to the casting directors. And at some point, I would imagine if you're continually submitting, either at some point, somebody's going to stop and give you feedback, if they feel it's necessary. And also it's just kind of a way to keep yourself top of mind, which is like any good marketing, is to keep yourself top of mind with a casting director. So I wanted to stop and say, thank you for saying that, because I'm sure that you just gave these BOSSes a whole lot more reason to just continue on, and be positive, and just submit, submit. So thank you for that. Love it. Yeah. Lau: Of course. That was my pleasure. And BOSSes listening in, I'm telling you, there are not enough places in the world and your lifetime isn't long enough to submit to every place you could be submitting to. So it's not about waiting for 5, 10, 15, 20 sources. It's about pasting. Like it's global, we're in a global industry now. You wanna cover the globe. So you don't wanna go from local. You don't wanna do regional. You don't even wanna keep it national. You wanna go international. So you wanna think about as you work with your coaches, as you work with your trainers, as you work with Anne, you wanna think about, boy, here's where I am in this market, but how am I viewed in that market? And then how am I viewed in this market? And it becomes an endless journey of how can I get in front of casting and representation that can represent me for that particular genre and that particular brand, which may change, which very well may change. Anne: Now, let me play devil's advocate here from the voice talent perspective and say, how do I find different casting directors that cast in different genres or different places? Is that something that's easily researched? Lau: Well, yes and no. In the sense that nothing is easy But everything's at our fingertips now. Anne: Right, right. Lau: We know this, everything is at our fingertips. So what you need, and I'm like preaching to the choir on this one, but what the BOSSes need is they need a great time management schedule. They need to be honest about what are they committing? I always say what you put in is what you're going to get out of it for your career. Am I putting in an hour, a day, am I putting in 15 hours a day? I'm most likely gonna get more out of it if I'm putting in more time. And the time needs to be very focused time, very incisive time. I need to know exactly, like how does an actor think I need to have purpose. I need to have an objective. I can't just generically go in and hope for work. I have to really, really target in. So let's say, say, I'm looking for casting directors. I know, based on my studio, I know one of the ways you can be seen live and virtually, virtually and live is to do showcases. And showcases are a fascinating event. We produce them and a lot of others produce them as well. And you get to go live in person, whether you're walking into a room or whether you're walking into a Zoom room, you get to meet people. There's nothing better than being in front of a casting director or an agent or a producer and saying, hi, I'm live. This is who I am. This is what I do. I'm gonna do it for you right now. This is a great option to get in front of as many casting people and reps, if you're looking for reps, as possible. A lot of people are afraid of it and they shouldn't be. Anne: Well, and I'm gonna just kind of plug my VO Peeps group. I mean, we do have workouts with casting directors and talent agents. And if you are afraid thinking that you're not ready to be seen or to be showcased, do the work to get yourself performance-wise where you feel confident. Because it's never a guarantee if you're performing in front of a casting director. And I always have to say that. Like, there is no guarantee you'll get work if you come to my workshop that is hosted by me and I have a talent agent or a casting director, but what a great opportunity to kind of showcase your talents. And so again, there's never any guarantee that you'll get work, but it's an opportunity for you to get in front of these people live in a Zoom room for the VO Peeps cases anyways, and then live also with -- Lau has showcases. And I know there's other casting directors as well that do those showcases, and that's a great opportunity to get seen and heard. Lau: It is. And it also will satisfy you. Like if you're doing the Peeps, you're doing the workout, it satisfies that live actor forum in you, where you wanna get some feedback. You wanna meet someone, you wanna talk about what you do. You wanna have the interaction of the room. I mean, that's something we just can't get alone in our studio or alone in our booth. We just can't capture it the way we can live. So I, I do think that's one, really important way where you're in a, either a workout or a casting workshop or a showcase, whatever that is. I would put that right into your time management. I also would work with either Anne, your coach, your trainer to really get together the marketing list you wanna get together of casting directors and of agencies that you can be target marketing. I think that's very important and a lot of talent miss that. I think gone are the days of opening up the phone book. We don't really use the phone book that often anymore. Anne: Well, wait, but wait, the Voiceover Resource Guide is coming back. I have to just do a plug for that because if you -- do you remember -- you've been casting direct for a while. You remember the Voiceover Resource Guide, the printed book? Lau: Yes. Anne: That used to be the only thing that basically gave you information for area coaches, area studios and casting directors, and that is making a comeback. And so it, it is in print and also online. So that's a great resource, and BOSSes, I'll be put in that link in our show notes and also any resources, Lau, that are online that you can share with BOSSes, I'll put that as well in the show notes. So you guys can check that out, but continue on Lau about how talent can get in front of first of all, find them, get in front of, and then how can we make a good impression? Like I think that's really what everybody wants to know. Lau: It is. It is, it is. And, and one more I wanna throw in the mix, Anne, and that is, I want you -- not you I want everyone listening in to think about every person that you meet or get in front of or have email contact with is a prospect. So they are a potential casting director. Anne: Yeah. Lau: They don't call themselves that that's not their title and they wouldn't even know what it is if you ask them, but they're the hiring person. They're the decision maker. They're the person who maybe owns their own business and needs vocal talent, doesn't know that they need them. So as you have your business, you have to think, wow, I am gonna look at my suspects and I'm gonna prospect them. And how do I prospect them? I'm gonna go after every organization, every group that I possibly can, that fits my interest of where my voice is. So for instance, I may go after the women's groups. There's a lot of professional women's groups out there that are wonderful, that would love to know, women and men, that would love to know your voices there, to promote their companies, to promote their products and services, to promote their organizations. A lot of them don't even have voiceovers to do that, right? Why not hit them up? They could be your casting director. What about your local chamber of commerce? What about your BNIs? Right? All of those, those are international professional clubs that you can go into and be in front of 10, 20, 50, 100 people at a time that are great prospects for you to then create what I call the rapport before the relationship. The two R's you have to remember when you're trying to get in front of anyone who's doing casting or hiring is, hey, I have to connect with you. I have to have some sort of authentic connection that you're interested in me and I'm interested in you. And then we have to build a relationship together over time. So it's really working in that sphere of understanding that casting is now global. It's now massive. And yes, you have casting directors proper in each city, in each state, but then you have all these businesses that may very well hire you once they know that you're there. Anne: Sure, sure, sure. And you know, I love that you've brought the term casting agent global now. It's really anybody that has a need for your services and that can hire you. And yes, there are traditional casting agents title only that belong to in studios typically. Right? And their job is to cast voice talent all day. And I like that you created a global job for anybody that hires you for your voice. And that's very true. The one thing I think that, BOSSes, you need to take into consideration is the amount of education necessary to connect and find the need for the job. Right? Because a lot of times we're auditioning, we're auditioning, we're auditioning. We're not getting any feedback. We're not getting any gigs. And we turn it all on our own performance. And I speak on this all the time, because I know that mentality. I have many students that talk about it all the time, and they're like, I don't think I belong in this industry anymore because I'm not getting any work. A lot of time, that work depends on the market. It depends on if there is a need at the time for your voice. And that is something that I think we forget as voice talent. We forget that a lot of it is timing based, right? A company may absolutely love your voice for their product, but if they don't have a campaign or they don't have something ready yet to release, they can't hire somebody. And so you just may be like, I'm submitting, submitting, submitting. And maybe just at that point, right, you might be marketing to them, they just don't need your voice yet. And that's when you're doing that kind of marketing and people are like, well, nobody's responding to me. I'm not getting any feedback to my marketing. Well, that may just be a timing issue. That's all it is. So don't always go to the place where, oh no, they didn't like my voice. Lau: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's a business where we have to personalize everything but we can't take anything personal. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Lau: We just have to understand the difference between personalizing your work and me, Lau, feeling like you hit me, you hit me. Well, I have to be careful of that because then I'll be hit all day long, and it won't be about my value. It'll be about me personally, as you gotta keep it to your value. And I do think, Anne, that there's two factors as I look at the years and years of working with talent and connecting them and auditioning them and all that, two very big areas that are common that are the obstacles, the walls that people have a tough time getting through; identified them as focus and fear. Those are typically the two game stoppers for you that I'm scared. I'm terrified. I don't wanna be rejected. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not good enough. That's the fear factor. And then the focus of like, okay, do I understand my schedule? Do I know what I can authentically commit? Am I really putting in the time and energy I need to, to get the ROI that I'm looking for? And oftentimes folks are not doing it. If they're gonna be really honest and transparent, they're not putting in the time and effort that an entrepreneur that owns their own business really needs to put in, right? Anne: So are you talking now? Are they not doing enough auditions or are they not doing enough work to prepare their performance so that they can get hired or both? Lau: It could be all of the above. When we started the conversation, we were talking about casting. And so for looking at finding and prospecting my own casting opportunities, well, how do I do that? I have to put X amount of time into my work week in order to do that. And there was one more I wanted to hit too, Anne, and that was getting my lists together. And if you're connected to great people like Anne, who may be able to help you with, who are the casting directors, and the casting departments, and the agencies proper in the nation that you can then be going, okay, I gotta send, send, send, send, send, I'm gonna Google. I'm gonna get online. I'm gonna look at doing all of that. And it is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Anne: It is, it is. Lau: But it's work we have to do in marketing efforts to understand who is hiring, who is submitting, and who is gone now because after COVID, a lot of businesses unfortunately went down or merged and changed. Anne: Yeah. And one thing I wanna point out BOSSes is that we have had a couple of different episodes on email marketing and just make sure if you are submitting or sending information out that you're abiding by rules and regulations so that you're not considered as spamming. And so be careful with that. It's one of the reasons -- and shameless plug, one of the reasons that I created the VO BOSS Blast is that we can market to a list that has already given us permission of casting directors and production companies that have said, yes, it's okay for us to market to. So that is something you guys can take a look at as well as doing your own research. And then it becomes a marketing challenge, right? How are you going to get in front of these people? And again, then it becomes that timing issue. But as Lau stated, you really do have to put in the effort. And I know how many people, they got into this industry thinking it's gonna be all fun and performance in the studio. Well, believe it or not, a lot of the time really isn't until you get that job, right? You've got to get the job. And then once you've got the job, you can't anticipate that that job will be there forever. You have to continually mine for new prospects and getting in front of new people that can cast you and hire you. So Lau, are there differences over the years in terms of what people are looking for today versus maybe 20 years ago? Let's talk about the difference in the types of voices they're looking for. Lau: Yeah. Well, there's been, I know, you know, this Anna huge swing in diversity casting and rightly so. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: That's been a long time coming. And so we've seen that both on camera and voiceover. Anne: Yeah. And I'm so thankful for that honestly. It's just really brought, I mean, these past years, and it's not to where we need it yet, but I'll tell you what. I've really been enjoying hearing and watching and seeing all the diversity. It's just been amazing. And I just wanted to keep continuing, so. Lau: Absolutely. I'm right there with you and it's been happening now -- Anne: It's been wonderful. Lau: -- solidly -- yeah -- for about three years or so, maybe a little bit longer, which is exciting. And now we have to look at, okay, vocal actors, if you're not in that diversity casting pool, that's okay. You have your value and now you have to do the work to say, how do I prospect the right clients, the right customers, the right casting who's going to be interested in what I'm doing and what my sound is? And, you know, be honest, like, are you a proactive person or are you more of a reactive person? And both are just fine. But one of the common denominators of successful entrepreneurs is that they're proactive, in that we're willing to go out and take action and take a lot of action and do it consistently for a long time, whether we get a return on it or not. I mean, that's just kind of the reality. We can't always depend on someone else doing it for us, and we can't always allow someone else to do it for us. There are certain things we just have to take agency of. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? And our career, our career, our business, VO BOSS, the name of what we do, the branding is ours. And we have to take 100% commitment in that. Anne: Yeah. And you are the marketing department, , you know, you are the accounting department. You are the performance department. You are everything. And just to remind people, and again, I think we forget, we say, I am going to be a voice actor. And so you envision this life where you're gonna be in the studio, auditioning, doing gigs, and the other parts of that business, you kind of say, oh shoot, I have to do those too? And so yeah, you do. And as a matter of fact, that's kind of why there's entire marketing departments in companies that encompass people, like more than one people. And they're full time, as well as accounting people, people full time. So if you wanna run your business successfully, you've got to really remember that this marketing, you may hate it. You can decide to maybe outsource it, but you do have to have control over it being done and/or delegating it to someone. And it is a necessary evil, accounting is a necessary evil. But getting in front of casting directors, people who can hire you, that is a marketing effort and sales really. But if you're doing great marketing, the sales hopefully come automatically. Right? And you don't have to call people up and say, yeah, you know, sell your voice. But if you're doing marketing properly, hopefully it comes your way. And this stems back to a lot of conversations, and I'm sure we can talk about it as well in terms of, is your storefront ready? Do you have your website? Do you have your demos? Are you prepared to market in that respect? It's all encompassing. Lau: And you took the words literally right outta my mouth. That's how I know we're sister sisters. I know this because I was just about to say, I just coached a young man this morning and, and the concern was, ugh, I wanna get to the right agency. I need to be at a big agency. I need to get these kinds of roles. I need to do this. And then when we were actually coaching, there were a lot of issues in his delivery. So always be in coaching, always be training, always have that on your side because casting and agents and producers, you know, really isn't their job to give you feedback. I mean, you're lucky if you get some good feedback from them. A lot of casting were actors before and will just give you feedback, but many won't. And so to have that level of expectation is unrealistic. It's really not their job. Their job is to deal with placement, like recruiters. You're dealing with placement. It's the job of your coach, your trainer, or being in your class. That is really the feedback source that you need to have that piece before you're overly concerned about the business end of it. You don't wanna be marketing something that's not quite ready yet. That's not there or not competitive. Anne: Yeah. I think lifelong learners, I think as performers, whether you are acting on camera, whatever it is, theater and voiceover, I think we continually have to be lifelong learners. I mean, that's, as an educator, that's what I love so much. That's why I was in education I think because I love to learn and I am a lifelong learner. And so that includes your performance and everything that you do and your business to be continually learning. And you have to consider investment. Not everything is free. Sometimes you can train for free. There's a lot of great resources out there, but sometimes you do have to make an investment in it and you can't be surprised by that. And you can't complain. They complain about the cost of coaching, the cost of demos, the cost of marketing. But guys, that's just a reality. That is an investment in your business. And yes, maybe there are some things that cost more than you anticipated, but it is something that I think as a good business BOSS, right, you have to anticipate and you have to put that money away for that coaching. That always helps. So to get yourself in front of that casting director, now you're in front of them. You wanna be able to impress them with your performance and you wanna have something that's relevant and current. And so studying also I think trends, right? Go to iSpot, listen to current commercials, go to YouTube and listen to current voiceover. Now I'm the first person to say that not everything you hear is gonna be the right or great voiceover, but I think you can develop an ear for great voiceover. Lau: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, having that training piece on your side like having it in, in your back pocket, the professional development, the education you're right, Anne, it's just a lifelong thing. And I often tell my clients, we're not off the hook. They somehow look at us and think, you guys are the BOSS. You own the world, you know, everything you're done. Anne: You're getting, you're getting that work for me. . Lau: And I'm telling you, they don't understand that we're always growing businesses. We're always leveling up. We're always investing and reinvesting, and fixing problems, and doing things better. It's never done. There isn't the sense of, oh, I did it. I got my demos. I'm done. No, you're just starting. You're really just beginning. You're not done. You're only at the beginning. And that's what business is like, a general sense. It's like, you always feel like you're starting and restarting based off what your new objectives and your purpose is. Quarter one, I have a new purpose. Now, quarter two comes, I repurpose that. And now I got a new objective. So I have to be able to understand that and know that the truth is our profession is a drop in the bucket, not to minimize the way people feel. 'Cause I totally empathize. Especially in the middle of inflation, believe me, I get you. I get you. But I'm telling you it's a drop in the bucket compared to going to medical school. It is a drop in the bucket compared to my friends who went for an MBA to be a financial advisor. And even actors that are friends of mine that went through three year conservatory degrees come out owing $200,000, $300,000 that they may never be able to pay off. What we are investing, Anne, is incremental. It's not overnight. It's really significantly lower than a lot of other industries out there and what they call upon just to get to the point of an interview for a job. Anne: Right. Now you did mention, and I just was asking like how things have evolved and changed over the years in terms of what casting directors are looking for. And diversity was absolutely number one out of your mouth there. And I agree with that. What else is there? I'm gonna say that natural, believable, authentic style of delivery for sure, which is 90% of casting specs when they come through. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Lau: Mm-hmm. I know that's true. That's the thing everyone gets annoyed with is like, ugh, the natural, the conversational, the connected. Anne: That's the hardest, Lau: it's the hardest. Whether you're a voiceover or an on camera, they just don't wanna hear you act. Anne: Yep, yep. Lau: They just don't want you exaggerated. They don't want you to call attention to your style. They just want to connect to you as a very, very authentic real person. So yeah. It's super important. It's the thing. It represents a whole, actually the largest generation in the United States, which is millennials right now represents them. Right? So that's something we'd absolutely have to pay attention to. Anne: Even promo by the way, even promo is going more conversational by the way. I thought that was so interesting because I hosted Rick Wasserman the other night for VO Peeps. And he said, yeah, they're looking for conversational promo. No more of the announcer style. So. Lau: That amazes me. That really does. That's so true. That amazes me. I wanted to say in casting, now we look for people who have their own built-in audience. Anne: Yes. Lau: That was not a thing. like, I'm not a digital native. I didn't grow up with a computer. Right? Like I literally learned how to turn a computer on at 32 years old. All right. So I'm off the hook a little bit, but the younger generation is not off the hook. They have to come in with their own built-in audience. What I mean by that is a lot of casting will ask you, okay, for your social media, what's your fan base like? What are your numbers like? Who's on your Insta channel? Who's this? Who's that and you're taken aback going, what, why are they asking me this? Because oftentimes they wanna ride. They wanna ride on their coattails of your current audience. Right? So they wanna take people in that already have this built in fan club. So the persona, yeah, the personality really weighs heavily even for voiceover. Anne: And I think that's gonna be that's gonna be another episode, all about social media and social media etiquette, which has become just chaotic. And I think that it's important that as companies and BOSSes, we understand how to represent those companies and our products online. And that's very important, I think, to casting directors these days. So. Lau: Yeah. It's the wild west for sure. And, and dealing with protocol and etiquette but, and again, for listeners who are going, oh no, I'm 55, and I don't know anything about that. It doesn't make you or break you. This is not like, if you don't have it, you're not gonna work. It's just, what are the waves? What are the trends? What are things that we're paying attention to that we find people are really looking for? And that's one of those. Anne: Yeah. Oh good stuff, Lau. Good stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Thank you so much again for being here and dropping those nuggets of wisdom to the BOSS listeners. I'm very excited for our future episodes. BOSSes, by the way, if you are looking to have your voice make an impact, you absolutely can. And you can give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And also as always, we love our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Lau, thank you so much. And we'll see you next week, BOSSes. Bye! Lau: My pleasure. Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The hardest boss you'll ever work for is yourself. In this episode, Anne & Lau jump into Business Superpowers by recounting Lau's many interesting jobs and career shifts. She has been an actor, a voice talent, a manager, a professor, but most importantly, she is fierce in the face of fear. If you feel nervous, excited, or scared about a new opportunity, run towards it. What's the worst that could happen? Failures and mistakes teach you more than success ever will, and with every overnight success comes years of unnoticed hard work. If that's not enough motivation for you, tune in for the full career deep dive with your favorite self-employed Bosses! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to start another brand new series, Business Superpowers with special guest Lau Lapides. Lau is founder and president of Lau Lapides Company, a boutique coaching, training, and production company for voice talent and actors headquartered in Boston with satellites in New York City, Miami, and LA. Her programs include hybrid online and in-person workshops, seminars, and one-on-one personalized coaching as well as showcases in New York City, LA, and online. Lau's media and broadcasting career coaches all currently work in television, film, radio, and theater, and their voices can be heard around the world. Lau, it is so much fun to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Lau: I'm so excited to be here. Like I can't believe it. We finally met each other, got together, east meets west. Anne: Here we go. Lau: Here we go. . Anne: I'm just so excited that you agreed to do this. And I'm so excited about our series, the Business Superpowers, because we've got a lot to talk about. So let's start with you so that our BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. Let's talk a little bit about your history, how you got started, and how you became such a BOSS in this industry. Lau: Wow. Thank you for that introduction. I appreciate it. I always feel like BOSS term in regards to me and personally has been like the overnight success. You know, when someone comes to you, Anne, and says, I wanna have it overnight, I wanna get that dream. Let's go. And I say, yeah, you can be an overnight success. Absolutely. A 40-year overnight success. Anne: Yeah, I always say my overnight success happened 12 years later. Sorry. Or at least you've gotta start with that. Lau: That's right. Anne: It's true. Lau: I always feel that way that it, it really has been such a lifelong process, such an amazing journey. The path splits off in so many directions. It's hard to even think about what the origins really were, but I'll tell you I was a dancer. Believe it or not. I was a dancer. Anne: And I was an engineer, so, wow. That's pretty cool. There you go. Lau: There you go. Same thing in a lot of ways, right? Walking, choreography. Anne: Right. But you don't always think, well, you'd end up with your own company in voice acting and, and acting, so. Lau: No, no. If someone were to tell me that I would do this 30, 40 years later, I would've laughed. I would've fell off my chair. I would not have believed it. So I started off as a dancer who really didn't speak at all. And then I went into an acting career. I had a whole acting career for a good 20 years, went through top level graduate program at UC Irvine in California. And that really changed my life, your neck of the woods. Anne: East and west. Here we go. So . Lau: East and west, east and west. And so after having this extensive theater background, I did a lot of repertory, a lot of regional, a lot of stock, became Equity, became an Equity actor, yada yada, so on and so forth. I ended up at grad school in California. That was really a turn for me. I started getting into a lot of media driven entertainment, started doing more TV/film, started my voiceover as a voiceover talent as a performer, really mid to late 20s. It was kind of later for me and then just kind of launched in that direction. And once I got my master's degree, I became a professor. I became a college and university professor and one of my specialties was to create curriculum . So I made my way back to New York. I lived in New York and I started creating curriculum all while I was acting and directing, 'cause I had also become a director and producer. Anne: I was gonna say, acting curriculum? Lau: Acting curriculum but it was interesting, Anne. The twist is, and this is where the whole BOSS in business situation starts to enter my world, is I was approached by top business colleges, and this was really out of my realm. Honestly, I'll be quite transparent with you. I knew nothing about that. I think I had business savvy, but I had the mind of a creative. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: I was actor, voice talent, director. You know, I was on the other side of it, and all of a sudden I got approached by Harvard. I got approached by Babson. I got approached by Bentley. These were all the top business colleges at that time, now universities, Boston University saying all kind of like the similar theme. What is the problem and how can I fix it? So I knew right away, they all had a problem or a need. And it was, we want programming for our business students that is creative and teaches them how to speak. Anne: Mm yes. Right? Important. Lau: It's very important. Anne: To be, to speak and present. I know that for sure. We have so many parallels, you and I, because I was 20 years in education and started up as an engineer, and I was on the east coast and then started my voiceover career a little bit later. So I had what I consider the creative in the engineering aspect, in the technology aspect and then in education, because I got so geeky and excited about it, I wanted to share it. So then I taught and, and then it just, it became all these passions and loves of mine. And then ultimately I started a full time voiceover career after that and moved west. So we have so many parallels. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And you're absolutely right. The business aspect of things is so important in the creative. I think a lot of students that come to me, and I'm sure you're familiar with this, they feel stuck in their jobs. And they need the creativity, and that's exactly like, what's that problem? Like where's the creativity in your job and where is that outlet? And a lot of times people turn to the creative arts, which is fantastic that you had that left brain, right brain 50-50, which is something that I was always told I was very good at, that you could relate on both sides of the thing. And so fantastic. So now bring us up to date now. You're currently still on the east coast? Lau: Yes I am. And skip 10 years, got an offer to open a studio. It was the right time. I got a brick and mortar. I was very excited about it. Always wanted to have a studio, had been now teaching for a good decade, had been now directing. While I was still performing, I was acting and doing voiceover all the way through. There was something in me, Anne, that wanted to be a leader. And here's the interesting thing I wanted to bring out about being in business programs. I got an education by default. So I started to learn that I could be educated by the students I was teaching. Anne: Oh gosh, yes mm-hmm. Lau: Right? So these were students from all over the world. They were undergrad, graduate, MBA, fast track people, every country in the world. And I started to learn what I needed to know as a business woman to then open a studio. So when I was 40, I opened a studio and I opened first an actor division. First I opened an actor division, and then about two years later came my voiceover division. And this was in the first recession. One of the worst recessions we had in the country was the first five years of my business. And so I knew I was either gonna sink or swim this was it. And somehow we made it through. It started to explode. What I thought was a luxury based business or a dream based business really turned into a reality and something very pragmatic that people were looking for to solve that problem, to fill that need in them. You know, what do I do next in my life? Or how do I restart a career? Or how do I live my dream? And we were learning, we meaning myself and then I hired a staff of like six to eight really amazing coaches from all over the place, to help me realize this team leadership, client centered kind of philosophy that I had in my head after teaching for 10 years all these amazing up and coming entrepreneurs. And so that was an amalgamation of all those years. I had no business model. I should have. I didn't. My business model was hardcore. It was like, my dad always taught me. He was a great entrepreneur. And he said, put the key in the door, show up early and just go to work. Anne: Well, I was just gonna say to you, you talk about, well, I just opened up a studio. Like, oh, it was like literally a split second of our conversation. But in reality, like, I need to know like that is a BOSS move. Like there's a lot of things that go into saying, oh, I'm going to open up a studio. And I'm sure that you probably went through, oh my gosh, like, how am I gonna get the money and will I make money? And you didn't have a business plan, but I love how you just said put the key in the ignition and just go. I think that says a lot for just foraging ahead and manifesting success for yourself because I can only imagine how difficult that is. And BOSSes out there, I mean, as entrepreneurs, this is something that you really need to do when it comes time to taking that leap of faith and going for it and making this a business that you can support yourself with, I mean, and make money. I mean, it's the reason why we create businesses is so that we can make money. And that's just such an important factor. So this is the same studio right now that you're working out of, the one that you've opened? Lau: This is another one. We've moved since, and of course COVID had changed everything for everyone. So, you know, everyone has home studios now. Everyone has condensed down. Everyone has compressed. We are just getting back to live in studio again and traveling. We just came back from a showcase that we produce, our company produces in New York City and then a week-long competitive convention that we are a part of. So we're just literally now getting back to physically getting on a train, going to New York, going back into studios. And that's also part of our mainstay is to connect voice talent to people live if possible in an industry. Anne: So let's talk about the pandemic because as a studio, how did you survive during the pandemic? I mean, you've gotta pivot. So not only are you just opening brick and mortar studios, which have become with the progression of home studios, being something that everybody's got, that's a tough biz anyway, right? So, and then the pandemic, which pretty much just cut off all in person, in studio gigs. How did you survive and how did you pivot during that time? Lau: Yeah, I mean, so I'll take it to a moment 'cause you know how it is about life, Anne. There's so much you can talk about, but you gotta get down to the nugget of what you really wanna say. There was a moment for me in COVID, and to get back to your comments about the putting the key in the door, how does it feel, the terror that you have inside of you, the fear of failure, the how do I make the rental? This is all internal life that I had inside of me, as many BOSSes have inside of the, of saying I have to feel the fear and then I have to do it anyway. So if I feel the fear, I acknowledge it. I affirm it. It's natural. Now I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna take that calculated risk. So to answer your question, there was a moment in COVID where I thought, okay, all production has gone down for actors. Voiceover is still great, viable and running. What do I film now? Like I'm a good, good problem solver. What's the need that we need right now? And at the time I was sitting in Boston thinking, what does New England need? And I came to me, we needed a voiceover division. We have no voiceover divisions that run out of agencies in New England. Like I know out of the major hubs. And I said, huh, how do I create that? So I immediately started reaching out to agency friends and colleagues, 'cause we work with everyone everywhere, and certainly in new England, we know the handful that are out there. And the bite that I got was a, a friend and colleague of mine, Tim Ayers, who's amazing and has Run Model Club Inc out of Boston for many years. He's owned it for about 10, 12 years. And it's been existence for a good 30 years. A lot of us are repped by them in the New England market. And I reached out to him, and he just had that progressive moment of saying, listening to his meshugene crazy friend Lau, just spout on, in the middle of COVID and all he said was yeah, yeah. Do it. I don't know anything about voiceover, so you're gonna have to do that. And I said, great! Not knowing anything, anything about being an agent or becoming an agent. So I had done casting. I had done producing, I was an actor, certainly a voiceover talent, but I had never been an agent. Anne: But you had all the knowledge and all of the industries surrounding it and the things that you would need to know to be a good agent actually. So I think all of you -- this had prepared you for the moment to become an agent. Lau: Right. But going back to your question earlier, which was brilliant is you are in that moment, you feel excited. And then when you realize the reality you go, ooh, that's a little scary. That's a little terrifying. Now I have to know stuff. Now I have to like now I have to lead. Anne: Not just a little terrifying. It's pretty much terrifying. Just saying. Lau: It's terrifying. And then when I felt it, I knew I was on the right track because that was the challenge that -- Anne: When you're scared. Lau: When you're scared, yeah, you need to jump out of the plane. You need to jump off the cliff. You really do. And I always think to myself, and I pass this on to clients and talent. I say, what's the worst that's gonna happen, really? I wasn't sinking a lot of capital or a lot of money into that, you know? No one really knew I was doing it. I said the worst is it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And that's okay. I will learn a lot from the not working if it doesn't work. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's a learning opportunity. Lau: it is. It really is. I think everything is to be honest with you. And I think once we make mistakes and once we do the wrong thing, we learn even more oftentimes than when we do the right thing. Anne: Absolutely. So then you developed your voiceover division. And that is now running strong and now you're starting to come back in studio as well? Lau: Yes. Yes. Anne: Fantastic. Lau: Yes. So, you know, the agency of course is mostly online nowadays, you know. Tim works online. I work online. Very rarely are we seeing actors or voice talent in person. It's just not necessary. It's expensive to do that. It's time consuming. And so we had to learn how to be a hybrid business model. We had to learn that. Anne: Sure, sure. Now what sorts of things are you doing in studio these days? Lau: Well, we have a handful of folks that come to us. And the interesting part about it, Anne, is we have a really unique model. Our model now runs as the studio, which is Lau Lapides Company. That's our training production base. That's totally separate than the agency. The agency is under Tim. He's the owner-operator. I'm his lead agent that launched the voiceover division, MCVO. Anne: Got it. Lau: And they run parallel to each other. And it's fascinating. It's really interesting to see where are the crossovers and where's the distinctive separation, because in essence I'm a, for lack of a better term, a hired consultant to launch a division, but yet we're the ones who know how to run it. We're the ones who know the world. We're the ones who are bringing in all of the talent in the roster. So it's a very interesting kind of parallel that we walk. The people that we see in person, mainly coaching, mainly studio clients that will come in. Maybe they'll need to do a recording or they'll need a coaching session, or they just wanna come in and talk about their career. And there's always a group of people that are geographically local enough to do that and wanna have that in person experience. Then everyone else is online. Anne: Yeah. Technology is a beautiful thing, but also in person is something I think through that pandemic, I mean, people are just desperate to get out for face to face, an in person meetings, sessions. And I think that hybrid is really a wonderful thing. I remember myself when I moved from the east coast to the west coast -- it's funny because you said you wanted to be a leader, and I missed teaching. I missed leading a group, and that's what created my desire to start the VO Peeps. And that was a group that I wanted to lead and bring educational initiatives to. And it's just something that was wonderful at the time. And because I started in Southern California, there was only a certain amount of people that I could reach out to locally. And because I had such a background in technology, I was one of the first meetup groups to both stream meetings personally, as well as onto the Internet. So I had a very hybrid group. And so I could actually at that point become a global networking group. And that became something that I did long time ago, back in 2000 and, I think 2010 I started to do that at the time. Not many people were doing it. And so it became a really wonderful way to just reach out to a much broader audience. So you have such a, a wonderfully wide audience. So even though you're located on the east coast, you have a widespread reach that is global, which is something that, as voice talent today, it's something that we need to address and understand the market in that way. Because gosh, when I started doing voiceover, a home studio wasn't even a thought. It was a luxury. Some people, oh, they dabbled in it. And other than that, you just have to go to the studio and, and audition and do the jobs and getting the work was -- that was before pay to plays. And really the agent was the person who served you. Let's get a little bit more in depth with, let's say the casting processes. I feel like if you had to sum up like, what one thing do you do the most of right now? Or is it all things? Is it casting? Is it performance? Is it managing? What is it that you do that consumes your day? Or what's a day like for Lau? Lau: I would say managing. You brought it up. That's the word managing and management as you know, Anne, is hard. It's challenging. It's about how you deal with temperament, balance, time, energy, you know, it's all those things. How do you have longevity to keep going? How do you maintain stamina? How do you hold grace and not lose your patience? There's so much that goes into an education about how do you run a business? How do you manage people? How do you manage yourself? How do you keep yourself in line? I always joke with my people. I say really, honestly, I work for the hardest boss I've ever worked for. Anne: Yourself. Lau: She's tough. And that's me. Anne: I love that. That's I get. Yeah, I get that. Lau: Like I can stand outside and be honest about that and say, wow, she's a bitch. Sometimes I have to be really tough. And sometimes I have to be really strong, and sometimes I have to be really vulnerable and empathize with situations that I myself may or may not, or I myself may or may not think is a big deal. So I think the management factor of making an eclectic, diverse program run along with the agency division is a lot of the circus plates in the air. It's really a lot of that. And I realize I'm gonna drop plates at times. I realize I'm gonna set myself on fire at times. And I always have some sort of extinguisher waiting, you know what I mean? Like you're gonna get burned. That's just the reality of it. But yeah, so we're coaching all the time. We are working on jobs and gigs all the time. This was a great week for us. We hooked a lot of our agency MCVOs up with some great gigs this week, three big jobs we landed this week. So it's a lot of balancing act, and it's a lot about getting to people quickly, right? People want responses, being responsive quickly. Anne: I have to completely agree with that. And as a manager, right, as a boss, we expect those things of ourselves, of people we're dealing with. And I wanna kind of just bring what you've said in perspective for, let's say, people just coming into the industry. You may not have people to manage yet, but you absolutely have to manage yourself. And also part of the growing and part of growth, even as a small business entrepreneur -- you don't have to open up a studio to be managing things and managing people. Because I've talked about this on previous episodes and I'm sure Lau and I will talk about this as outsourcing. You will have to manage people, manage your business, and to do so successfully requires some skills that you can learn as you go. I mean, I think it's a wonderful thing. Once you become an entrepreneur and you're not necessarily -- you know, I worked in corporate for many years and I worked in education, which is another form of working for someone else. When it comes time to working for yourself, you're probably the hardest boss. And that includes not just the aspects of the business, but you're also hard on yourself personally, because what you're selling is part of a brand of yourself. You are a personal brand. And so not only is it doubly hard, I think, because you don't have a physical product necessarily to offset. Right now, if you're hard on someone, you're also hard on yourself because now you're gonna be hard on your product, which is your voice and your performance. And it's a very personal thing, which makes I think being an entrepreneur in our industry very difficult. You have to try to separate yourself so that you're not affecting your product by being hard on your performance or hard on your growth or lack of growth. Lau: That is beautiful, Anne, just perfect. And you have to play paradoxes every single day of your life. You have to play these opposites, which feel really weird and uncomfortable. Like on one hand, you have to be super hard on yourself so that you can perform, you can produce, and you can do it in a timely manner. And then on the other hand, you have to go easy on yourself. You have to forgive yourself. You have to not hold yourself to standards that are insanely ridiculous. You know what I mean? And you have to treat yourself as a human being because if you beat yourself up too much, you're just not gonna last long. You're not gonna have the esteem and the confidence to really last long in the industry. So you have to play these kind of opposites, this antithetical effect all the time, and go back and forth from it, and kind of say, hey, I need to do this. I need to get this done. It's important, but hey, wait a second. Where's the flexibility in it? How can I do it again better? What did I learn from it? And really kind of fluidly go back and forth from that mindset. Anne: Right. And it's not something, as we both mentioned in the beginning of this podcast, it's not something that happens a few times like a day or week. I mean, we're talking to really be successful in this industry in a marathon, not a sprint, right? Our overnight success took 12 years or 40 years, whatever that is, that is continue -- and I don't know if the fear factor for me got easier or I just dealt with it better because if I'm not doing something every day that scares me, then I'm not growing. And if I'm stagnating, that is the death of me. That is where I felt I was when I worked in the corporate world. I felt like it just wasn't growing. And that is something to me and my psyche and my development is really important. Lau: It's super important. I love that quote too. That's I think a famous Eleanor Roosevelt quote is do something every day that scares you. You know, and never, never, never give up. So there's that element of, yeah. I need to be afraid, but not so terrified that I'm paralyzed. You know, I like to say now analysis can be paralysis. Like don't overthink it too much. Don't overanalyze it too much because you can find a reason why not to do things all the time. Anne: Oh, gosh. Lau: Right? Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. There's ways -- I'm a good procrastinator on certain things. Lau: I think most people are. Anne: Those are the things I wanna outsource. I wanna outsource those things, but. Lau: But you know what you said earlier, which was so true is like the delegation effect, learning how to delegate, learning how to -- Anne: Let go control. Lau: Yes. Anne: That's me. I'm a control freak. Did you notice that about me yet? Lau: Listen, you and me are gonna start that club because I am a self-professed control freak too. And part of that is a beautiful gift because you wanna have that sense of like, I can fully 100% manage what's going on, but we have to know that, you know, at the end of the day, we don't really have control over anything. It's like an illusion, you know? Anne: You're right. And I'm learning as I grow that it's impossible for me to grow without delegating and letting go control because I'm only one person with only so many hours in a day. And so I cannot grow my business without letting go of some of that control and trusting. And then it becomes a whole 'nother lesson I think in growing your business is trusting your team and getting people on board with you that believe in you, believe in your process, believe in the company and that you have a mutual respect for each other. And I always say that, you know, I treat my employees like gold because they really are gold to me, and I make sure they're paid well. I make sure all those things that scare me and say, oh my God, can I afford to do this? Do I have a budget? I make the budget. Right? And so again, you have to throw out a lot of faith, a lot of faith that things will come to you if you put it out there and that you are putting your faith in your employees and they have a sense of loyalty and pride and want to work with you for success of the company. And that's a really hard thing if you're not used to doing that, if you've worked for someone else for all your life and that's scary thing. Lau: And it's a skill. You're right, it's a soft skill. But ironically, it's a hard skill. It really is. And you need to cultivate it to some degree because you want to have your team, your village, your tribe, whatever you call them, no person is an island. I'm telling you, I could not build the studio myself. I had my family, my husband, my own children who now work in the business with me. I mean, it's immense, the help that and assistance that you need as you grow. And just like identifying, you have to be able to identify who are my people that are really great, and they're supportive, and they're helpful? And then who are the people who are the growth people? Those are the people who can really help you grow and level up in your business to the next tier and really not mixing up. Yeah, not mixing up the two, 'cause they're very different people, equally valuable and equally loved. I'll use that word love. I think you need to love people. Anne: And -- I agree -- and of course, even harder I think is if the people are not necessarily a fit for you and in letting go and in making that decision. There's that whole boss-employee kind of relationship. Are they friends as well? And there's a lot of delicate things in there, which, oh gosh, we could spend a whole 'nother podcast probably talking about that. Lau: We could, we could spend forever talking about that. . Anne: And actually I think we will, but I'm gonna say for today, Lau, thank you so much. It's been a wonderful privilege to have you coming on the show. I'm excited for our future episodes of BOSS Superpowers, of Business Superpowers. And so thank you so much for your wisdom today and telling us a little bit about yourself. And BOSSes out there, I want you to know that as individuals, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, you can help contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible. And you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Also a great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, Lau. Bye. Lau: Thank you, Anne. Loved it. Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Iterate or evaporate. In this episode, Anne & Erikka are here to get you out of a funk. Whether it's a slow season in your genre or you are feeling like work isn't coming as easily as it did a few months ago, your hosts are here to cheer you on. Connecting with a community can help motivate you, but really the only person you have to impress is yourself! This industry requires you to be consistent, tenacious, and ready to keep going even when it feels impossible. Reflecting on recent accomplishments or setting new goals can reignite that fire. Maybe you need to journal about why you got into voice over in the first place. Whatever it is, we are here for you and if you need a little boost, put this episode on repeat! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm happy to be back this morning, having a balanced breakfast with my good friend, Erikka J. Erikka! Yay! How are you? Erikka: Hey Ann. I am good. I did not have a balanced breakfast, but. Anne: Erikka: I'm coming back balanced and refreshed from vacation. Anne: Well, there you go. Erikka: That's great. Anne: And since we wanna remain with our theme of balance, I wanted to ask you, it seems like you had a wonderful, luxurious vacation. Did it restore the balance to your creative and professional life as well as your personal life? Erikka: I think so. I think so, but it was crazy because kind of looping back to what we said in earlier episode, I had like a chaotic day, right before I left. I know we've talked about like having backups and all those things, and man, did it save my behind because -- Anne: Ah, very important. Talk about it. Let's talk about it. Erikka: Oh my goodness. I had a SAG video game session that I've worked with once or twice before, but still, you know, those are like super exciting, but also wanna make sure everything's right. So had everything set up. They had me on Zoom first and they get on SourceConnect. And for whatever reason, Zoom and SourceConnect hated each other that day. And like my interface wouldn't work, and my DAW wouldn't work and it was just like, ohhhh, like. Anne: That's tense. That's a tense situation. So what happened? So what happened? Erikka: Luckily I had backups, Anne. Anne: Ooh! Erikka: So so I switched from my Apollo right over to my Audient, and I switched from Adobe audition right over to Pro Tools, which they use too, so they were super cool with. And I actually heard them comment, "isn't it great when an actor like knows what they're doing with the technical stuff?" Anne: Ooh. Score. Erikka: And I was, like -- Anne: That was awesome. Erikka: Yes! Anne: And you know what? I absolutely am quite sure that's gonna have a big bearing on them wanting to work with you again. Erikka: Well, I'll tell you what, it was also a very nice way to kick off vacation by not leaving a session, like, oh my God, I screwed up. It was like, it all worked out in the end. So then I could go on vacation happily and you know, relax. So it was great. Anne: Wow. Well, congratulations on that for sure. Erikka: Thank you. Anne: I know that for me, like when I go on vacation, I'm very much all on or I'm very much all off. And when I go on vacation, I can completely, thankfully I can completely disconnect. And then I find that when I get back, it's tough to motivate myself again. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So I figured it would be kind of a good thing to talk about. How do you motivate yourself? And then also, how do you motivate yourself when, during the course of your voiceover career, let's say, things aren't working out the way you expect? I know a lot of people come to me, you know, I'm not booking and it's just really frustrating. And how do you self motivate when you're just coming off a vacation or when the chips are down? Erikka: Oh boy, that's something that I think is like a muscle that we have to keep toned in this business, you know? Because there's so many things that can not help to keep us motivate -- Anne: Demotivate. Yeah. Erikka: Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, you're not booking or whatever, but coming back off a vacation, it's like, yes, you've had this refresh, but it's always like hard to get back in the saddle, right? So usually what I'll do is I'll have at least one day of rest to make sure that like, I don't have -- Anne: Once you come back. Erikka: I'm typically still booked out. Anne: Yeah. I love that. Yes, I do that too. I book out one extra day when I come back for that jet leg or whatever it is. So you can just relax and kind of get yourself geared back up. Erikka: Yep. And if I see like an audition I really wanna do, I might try to do like one or two just to kind of like warm up getting back in the booth. Anne: Sure. Erikka: But you know, that way it's kind of my choice, 'cause I've already said like, hey, I'm booked out this day. Anne: Important question though. Did you completely book out during that vacation? Did you bring any equipment with you? Erikka: I did. So I have that Shure MV 88, which is plus, which is super tiny and it's so small that I don't mind carrying that. I stopped carrying around my 416 and my interface, 'cause that just felt like -- it was hard to be on vacation yeah. And I always get stopped by TSA. Like it's a microphone. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Erikka: So I did bring it with me, but yeah, I didn't record a single thing on vacation. It was great. Anne: Good. Congratulations on that. Yeah. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: Yeah. So self-motivating, man, you gotta -- there's a lot of different things, whether that's warming up to get back in the booth and then thinking about why are you doing this? You know, what are your personal goals? What are your professional goals? What about you, Anne? Anne: Well, I think a lot of times, if you're getting frustrated, when let's say work, isn't coming your way or you didn't book that audition or you're not sure what's happening, obviously number one, it happens to all of us. So just know that. There are times when things can be slow, and things may not be happening the way that you expect them to. So number one, know that you're not alone. Number two, reach out. I think reach out to somebody that can be an accountability buddy or, or just a friend in the industry that can help you motivate, get yourself back on track. And just to kind of reinforce the fact that you're not alone, and maybe they're having some slow moments too, or maybe they're not, and then that may or may not make you feel better. But but for sure, I think know that it happens to all of us and reach out and communicate. Don't just let it sit inside you and fester. Erikka: Fester, yes. Anne: Because I think that just is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know what I mean? It just, it's hard to get out of until somebody can help snap you out of it. And so, Hey, just put this VO BOSS episode on repeat. So whenever you're down, and you need motivation to say it's okay and it happens, there are slow times in the industry. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Keep plugging away at it. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What other things do we say? Interestingly enough, Erikka, I've been in this industry over 15 years, and honestly it does take tenacity, and it takes consistency and staying with it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Now obviously if you haven't booked in a year, that might be an indication that maybe you need some other outside help or maybe performance technique or something else. Maybe you're not marketing enough. But I think for the most part, when you go through these lulls, for sure, just understand that it does happen and reach out so that you're not in this self-sabotaging moments of saying, that's it; I can't do this or this isn't for me and quit, because it is a marathon. It is a marathon. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what you said is important about like, not just reaching out, like remembering that that also includes like coaches or, you know, finding workshops that maybe you need just need a refresh. Everybody still needs to train. I just had a class on Thursday when I got back. But you know, also sort of honing in on what exactly. like what's the problem? You can't really solve it until you know exactly what's missing. Is it that you're not reaching out enough and you're not drumming up enough leads? Or are you getting the leads and not quite landing the auditions? Maybe it's audition technique, 'cause maybe once you're in the job, it's great and they love you, but you're not getting the attention and standing out from the pack. Just sort of honing in on what is it that I need to work on to drum things up and knowing what the lulls are in the industry is key. Because it may not be you; it may just be the time of year, you know? Anne: Yeah, and also, not just the time of year, but the genre that you're working in as well. Erikka: Yes. Yeah. Anne: Like there are certain genres that probably don't let up, like if you're in promo, right? And you're the voice of a show, you will have a schedule that will be somewhat predictable when the show is running or before the show -- whatever it is, you'll be on a schedule for those particular jobs. Versus let's say commercial: if you're the voice of a particular campaign, there may be a lot of work at once and then the campaign might be over. And so then you're onto the next campaign. If it's e-learning or corporate, it could be kind of hit or miss, you know, sometimes it's feast or famine, that sort of thing. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And just understand that when there is a famine, I think that's the time when you have to step back and increase the marketing levels, increase your, you know, reaching out to your contacts, making sure that you're continually on the lookout for that next client. I think you really should never be complacent if you're busy and when you're busy. Always be on the lookout for finding that next client, because you just never know when that job may end. And I think for me, I don't expect anything -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- from my clients and the more predictable the work is, obviously the more comfortable and the more confident you're gonna be. So for me, I've got some regular clients that I know in advance like what jobs are coming up. And that gives me a source of confidence so that I can go and audition for more jobs and maybe a different genre and take some chances there. Because I always like to mix that up. Erikka: Absolutely. Yeah. You don't wanna be taking all your risk at one point and then you don't have anything going on. You wanna kind of have your foundation, you know, know your, what your business plan is, know what your strategy is to keep yourself balanced, right, and to keep your balance sheet in balance. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So those are all, all great things. Anne: And I think we talk about like goal setting in a recent episode. You know, I think goal setting is important because we can lose sight of -- within that goal setting, we write things down. We also not just write our goals down, but our accomplishments. And if you're doing that on a timely basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, whatever that is, going back and taking a look at your progress and your accomplishments is going to be something I think that you can always keep track of. And that can also help to motivate you to say -- you know, I was thinking I haven't been busy, but in reality, I got that job. Or, you know, I got that wonderful testimonial from that client. Or I made contact with a bunch of new production houses that I'm on the roster. Whatever that is, you can take a look at what has happened so far. That's why I think keeping track in goal setting and writing down your accomplishments and goals that have come to fruition, I think that's so, so important. Erikka: Absolutely. Like my metrics are super self-motivating for me. And it actually has kind of pulled me out of a, oh, I don't think I'm doing as much work. You know, I haven't been feeling well, all of this. And then I go back, and I look and I'm like, well, it's not that bad. You know, and maybe it's not as bad as I kind of -- we, we inflate these things in our head, but when you go back and look at the numbers, especially like, what I do is I'll definitely look at my year over year. So I'll see I did this last March and you know, this this March and kind of get an idea of where I'm at, looking at incomes, you know, a number of auditions that I did, bookings, and even like callbacks. Like if I got a callback in a genre that I haven't gotten a call back in before, that is progress, and that's showing that, you know, I've gotten better. So all that stuff is incredibly self-motivating. Anne: Well, you know, you mentioned income, and I'd like to touch upon that just a little bit. I will say that for me, of course it's about voiceover. But for me, it's also about being the entrepreneur, and the entrepreneur is someone who can design their business so that it can be profitable and fruitful both in self-fulfillment as well as let's say financial, and I am not ashamed to say that that is part of a game for me. I like to make money. It helps me to support the household and the family, and I'm not ashamed to say that. And I think there's a lot of us that, especially when starting out in the industry are very timid. "I'm not experienced enough. I'm not good enough yet. I need more training." And they're very timid about charging a particular amount, charging what they're worth. We've touched on charging what you're worth, you know, multiple times in this podcast. But I will say that if you charge what you're worth, and even just once in a while, throw out a number that you think is ridiculous. When you get that number, that is a motivator, like no other . Erikka: Yes, totally agree. Totally agree. And being able to kind of, tying that in with goals and the income thing, is making sure that your goals are -- and I wanna be cautious with the word realistic. And what I think I really mean is incremental and iterative. Anne: Yes. Erikka: So it is okay to set astronomical goals for yourself, but make that a long term thing. Anne: Yes. Erikka: What are the steps to get there? If you wanna make $100,000 in voiceover, what is it gonna take for you to make per month, per week, per day? How many reachouts or, you know, whatever your lead generation strategy is, what do you need to do to to generate that number? And then taking a look at where you landed and kind of setting for the next iteration, what's a more realistic goal for me if I didn't hit it or, oh, I did go over. So maybe I need to reach a little harder because you put that into the universe, I really believe that you can limit yourself by kind of having lower goals. But if you have somewhere in the sweet spot, it can help you be very motivated. Anne: Yeah. And I do wanna continue a little bit more on that financial aspect of it, but if you have a cushion, if you have been able to, if you have a great repeat client, if you have -- or anything, not even, even if it's voiceover, if you have another job, right, that you're making income and you have some money that you have put aside, and this is my voiceover business investment money -- once you have the confidence of having money in there, I believe it is a true motivator to allow you to take more risks in your business. Erikka: Yes, totally agree. Anne: And that to me has been honestly, something that has helped me grow exponentially, just that confidence that I don't have to worry about the money because I've got money set aside for investment. I have a little bit of time to kind of strategize and calculate what can I do now to make money? And again, without people thinking I'm greedy, 'cause I don't like to classify that as greed at all. It's a simple acknowledgement and understanding that money makes the world go around right now, and I need to pay a mortgage. And so with that hardcore realization, to me, it becomes a challenge. "Okay. How can I have enough money set aside and reinvest that money so that I can make more money?" Erikka: Yep, absolutely. Anne: So that I can maybe invest in a good vacation that will help me reset myself creatively, which is something that I need and is coming up in the next year. You know, I've made plans to go on a nice vacation. That is something that I think is not only helpful for me personally, but also professionally because it's going to help me to reset. And so many of us have certain blocks for money. And once we realize what those blocks are, we can work to kind of clear those blocks and just, without getting too woo-woo, right allow the abundance, allow the money and not be ashamed or feel bad about it or simply accept it and allow it to come into our lives. 14:30 Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. So keeping that balanced mindset, not one of scarcity, but one of abundance and welcoming that not just money itself because yes, I love making money too. And recognizing that you have value when you are voicing these projects. You are helping these companies make money in some type of way. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: So you should be compensated for it. There's nothing wrong with that. But this money can allow you, you to not just hitting the number goal, but it can allow you to reach personal goals. Like maybe paying off debt or helping a parent or a child go to college or whatever. So it's a tool. Money is a tool that you can use to do things in your life. You work for it, you should get it, and there's nothing wrong with setting goals based on that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest money blocks that I faced when I was growing up was that my father was supposed to be the head of the household and making the money. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And my mother was raising the children, right? And bless them both, love them both, but that was kind of what I was raised with. But thankfully my parents were always encouraging, saying I could be whatever I wanted to be. I didn't feel like there was a limitation, but just because it was something that I grew up with, and I saw, as I became a business owner, should I feel bad that I'm making more money? I remember when I was going out to get a job, I'm like, well, how much money should I make? Like that was an actual thought in my head. Well, if I get married, my husband should make more money than me, and I, you know, of course immediately put a stop to that. But I don't want that to be a limitation at all for that. So it was always like, well, as a woman, I shouldn't be making as much money. And of course I put a stop right to that in today's world. Heck no. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: You know? For me -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. I always wanted as much as possible. Anne: Yeah, exactly. And for me, believe it or not, you wanna talk about how we're motivating, how to motivate when the chips are down, that's a motivator. It is a motivator. And so I am continually trying to improve. And when I set my goals and again, I love that you said the incremental-iterive not outlandish goals, but when you set decent goals that are incremental, and you hit those goals, that becomes such a motivator. Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: And again, it doesn't consume my business, but it absolutely drives my business because you want to be successful. And so to be successful, I'd like to make a profit for this because it is my full-time career. Now, if you're in voiceover, and maybe it's your part-time career, I want you to have a goal of making money as well, because I don't want you to not care about it because then it will drive down, let's say, it may drive down the valuation in the industry, right? So every one of us should get paid, whether we're working full-time or part-time, we should get paid what we're worth. Erikka: Absolutely. Think about, even if it's, if it is part-time or just side money for you, think about what you could do with that extra money, and maybe that'll help you keep your rates up like vacations. You know, just went to Cabo and it was gorgeous. It could be saving for retirement. It could be saving for college for kids. It could be saving to take care of an aging parent. It could be just investing, you know, go buy an investment property. So don't see it as just, oh yeah, I'll do this for $100 because who cares? Anne: It's just a hobby for me. No. I want you to turn that thought around and say, hey, demand the money that you're worth and concentrate on the clients who are willing to pay you what you're worth. Erikka: Indeed. Anne: And try to even change the notion that there are some jobs that may not be worth as much. I mean, I think a lot of that is our own self-inflicted limitations on what we can charge for a job. I mean, a lot of times, you know, we have talked about negotiation before. You know, the person who mentions money first usually loses. And so always asking for a budget really helps because one of the last jobs I asked for a budget, and it was literally five times bigger than the budget I had in my brain. And I said, oh, I think I can work with that. Right? And that was a great motivator that -- Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? Erikka: Exactly. Anne: I'm like -- Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: -- wow. You know, I could actually get that money for that job and I didn't feel guilty. I didn't feel like it was overcharged because again, like you've mentioned, you're helping a business to make money. And so, you know, you are absolutely worth the money, and even if it's more than you think. And that really, I think helps to set like little benchmarks for like, okay, so I got paid for this particular genre this amount and you know what, it's not impossible that I could get paid that again or not more so. Erikka: Agreed. And even some like external motivators 'cause we wanna balance what's motivating us, right? 'Cause money is great. Money's important. Money is probably the main reason that most of us are doing this. We wanna get paid and compensated for our time and talents. But understanding that there are other motivators as well, in addition to other goals you can set, it can be personal, just kind of growing your artistic muscles and being a great actor, but even external motivations like awards. I think that awards showing achievements that you've made in certain categories, for one, I think that they are a marketing and advertising tool, which is great to drum up new business. And it's nice to be recognized by your peers and to be able to say, I did such a great job on this that I was awarded for it. So those can be great too. Anne: Absolutely. There is such a difference of opinion with some people about the awards. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Are they valid for us or not? But I think any type of recognition from our peers, that's validation. There's so many times when, again, we're such an isolated business and it's such a personal aspect of our brand that we're being judged on. Whether we get paid or not, right, whether we get that job or not, right, it is a personal part of us that is being valued, right? It's our voice. And so if we can have other people say, wow, great job, that really, really helps to motivate. And that includes award ceremonies. And again, there's the whole argument, well, you're paying for the award. Well, like you mentioned, consider that in investment in marketing. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Does it really make a difference? I say, yeah, it does. I mean, it makes a difference to the person who may not be familiar with the voiceover industry, and they say, well, they've been awarded, so they must be good. I'm not necessarily marketing to voiceover people when I get an award on my voiceover work. I'm advertising to companies or other people that might hire me for the same thing. And it does leave an impression. Erikka: Yeah. Think about, I know that we've all either had a product or a brand or something that we've seen, and they have on their website when they've been talked about in certain magazines or when they've earned certain awards. Again, we are businesses as well. So why would we see this as any different? There's nothing wrong with it. And if you have the argument, what does it help? My retort would be how does it hurt? Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Erikka: You know, like -- Anne: That's a great retort. Erikka: Hey. Anne: I mean, why not? So. Erikka: Why not? Get dressed up and have fun with your friends. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's like, so anybody that knows me kind of knows that I'm a little competitive as I laugh, just a tiny bit competitive. And just the competitiveness of it all, even if I don't win, right? Erikka: Right. Anne: Which, you know, I'll be like rrr, but anyways , but even that little bit of competition is stirs up my adrenaline. Right? It's just fun. Erikka: It's fun. Anne: And again, it's something that wakes me up out of complacency. I think if you're not motivated, you're complacent. And complacency for me is like a dead end. It is a place where I can't grow and a place where ultimately I'll just get bored, and it's just not a place to be in my career. Erikka: Yeah. I don't know if I've said this quote before on this podcast, because it's like one of my favorites. So forgive me if it's a repeat, but one of my favorite quotes, because it's so short is iterate or evaporate. Anne: Ooh, I like that. I've never heard that. Erikka: I love it. It's like keep getting better, keep doing things and kind of going back and looking at how you're doing, or you're going to fade away. Anne: That's the nicer way of saying evolve or die. Erikka: Yeah. Exactly. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Which is one of my favorite Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Actually that's so funny. Iterate or evaporate. Okay. So I'm gonna say that from now on. I like that. That's great. Yeah. So any other ways that we can help to self-motivate? Sometimes you just have to go on muscle memory, I think, you know what I mean? And just know as much as you're not feeling it, you're feeling low, you're feeling down, you're depressed maybe because you haven't booked a gig in a while. Just kind of going on memory again, play this podcast, and know that things will change. Things will change if you keep going, keep plugging away, be consistent. I think co consistency is key. Erikka: And remembering that yes, we have all these external factors like, you know, awards and money and all these things we've talked about. But personally, and as an internal factor, remember why you started. You know, why do you love voiceover? Why are you here? Why are you doing this? Why are you spending money on all this equipment and this training? And if you can get back to that love, that drive that got you started, that can be sort of a nice refresh to get you motivated to keep going. Anne: Yeah. What a wonderful way to end on this, Erikka. I love that you said it because when you remember why you got into it in the first place, that passion, that love it comes out in your performance. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And there's no denying that can vibrate from your soul. Right? The passion and the love that you have for it. It really, I think it's infectious, you know? And it draws people into listening. And so I think that's a really wonderful way. Hey, wanna improve your performance? Remember why you started in the first place, bring that passion back to your reads. Erikka: And that passion might get you booked. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Back -- Erikka: You'd be surprised. Anne: -- your leads, back to your marketing, bring the passion back to every aspect of your business, and it can only grow from there and move up. So. Erikka: You know it, indeed. Anne: Excellent, excellent episode, Erikka. Starting our morning outright with a balanced breakfast. Erikka: Or a balanced conversation for those of who just have simple carbs. Anne: A balanced, balanced motivation. So, ah, I love it. I love it. I love it. So I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also BOSSes, here's a chance for you to use your voice, to make a difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In order to tell a story, you have to understand it. This week, Anne & Erikka discuss how to harness musicality to make the most out of your reads. Singing can teach you a lot about breath control, pacing, and emotional expression. Taking deep, diaphragmatic breaths will keep your air flow strong. This prevents you from breaking up ideas & phrases with pauses which ultimately interrupt the story you are telling. Knowing your voice and its capabilities can inform your daily workflow & schedule. Tune in to learn how you can harness the power of your voice… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our balance series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am thrilled to have back special guest co-host Erikka J. Erikka J, yay. Erikka: Hey, Hey Anne. How are you? Anne: We're kind of singing that. Erikka: Yes we are. Anne: You know, you are a singer. And I was thinking about this because I used to play an instrument for many years and I also sang for quite some time. I was an avid choir member and swing choir member as well, kind of like the glee club. And so it's interesting because it affects how I teach voiceover. So I teach voiceover with like conversational melody. And it's very interesting, 'cause I'll talk about, okay, start on your middle C. And then when you're going to inflect important words, that's pretty much just a tiny nuance of a step up. It's not like crazy notes. It's C to a C# or C to a D. And I thought, because you're a singer, we could really have a conversation about how there is a melody to our voice as we are speaking. We're not necessarily singing, but when we're talking and we're communicating, there's absolutely a melody. Erikka: Absolutely. But you have to keep it in balance. You don't wanna get sing-songy because then it starts to sound like, you know, old school commercials and nobody pays attention. It's not conversational anymore. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: But yeah, for sure. Anne: So let me ask you, you were a singer before you were a voice artist? Erikka: Yes. Anne: So what skills that you developed as a vocalist, how do they help you as a voice artist? Erikka: Oh man. So definitely for one was breath control. Anne: Ooh. Erikka: Yes. Anne: That's an important one. Erikka: When you get those really long run on sentences or those big words, and it's like, we gotta make it work or you gotta read speed through the disclaimers or whatever. I'm like, boom. You know, like . Anne: Look, and you just did a nose breath. I love that. I teach nose breath. Erikka: Yeah. I don't even do mouth breath. I don't even think it's automatic. Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Because, so I talk about nose breath because it helps you to really get a deep diaphragmatic breath. Erikka: Yes. Anne: And there's nothing more powerful, right, than to deliver words when you're not afraid of running out of breath. Right? Erikka: Indeed. Yes. Yes. Because your brain is gonna be like, oh my God, I can't breathe, I can't -- Anne: Right. And that's all you can think about. You can't think about the story you're trying to tell when you're exactly gasping for breath. And honestly, I think there's something to be said for understanding the music before you sing it a little bit or kind of understanding the phrasing of the music, because for me, words and stories are broken up into phrases or clauses as my, my English teacher would say. And in those phrases, you don't wanna run outta breath. You don't wanna like stop. Like I am talking to you all staccato, like William Shatner. . You know, you wanna be able to have that -- here, it's a smooth phrase and I'm just talking. And if you guys, the BOSSes out there, you're listening to this right now is we're talking to one another, we're not breathing in the middle of our words. We're breathing either before we say them or at a comma. And if you run outta breath, like that's all you can think about. So you can't have a conversation while you're continually gasping for breath. Erikka: It's still a balance. Anne: Yeah. Talk to me about those diaphragmatic breaths for you. Erikka: So it's definitely, like I said, the support in being able to get through those long phrases, but it's also, like you said, finding the commas and that's not necessarily the commas that are written on the script. And I think that's important to keep in mind. When you're doing a conversational method of speaking, there are gonna be times when maybe, you know, you're in the middle of thinking. Like I just paused right now and I kind of, you know, I might take a natural breath there and that's okay. So it doesn't have to be, I have one breath for the entire sentence. Just now when I'm speaking, you can hear, there are some points where I'm breathing and it's just natural. You wanna keep the natural breath in there, but not the, oh my God, I ran outta breath, and I gotta breathe. Anne: Oh my God, just, I'm at the end of the, I'm at the end of the sentence now. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those are incredibly supportive. Anne: And it's funny because I had to kind of learn how to breathe even better after I had surgery way back in 2012. And it's interesting. That's when I started really doing nose breaths and diaphragmatic breaths, and it's incredible how confident it makes you feel. And so it really allows you to concentrate on the story that you're telling again. And you can deliver those words. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, I can -- Anne: Just when you want to. Erikka: I can feel them in my posture. Like it actually, like, I feel like it makes me sit up because it's like, your lungs are full, and it's like, I've telling this story. You know, this is my message. And you shall listen to me. Like it's . Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And I think it's very similar to swimmers. Like I used to take swimming lessons and be like, okay, how long can you hold your breath underwater? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: It's a muscle that you can develop. So if you are in your booth, and sometimes you just don't anticipate long, unwieldy sentences. Boo on you, because you should understand at least at some point in your analysis of it, right? I always say go through the script like a first grader so that you kinda have an idea of where those long-winded sentences are and you know where you're going to breathe. You kind of have to plan where you're gonna breathe. So it's not at every single comma, but like you said, it can be in implied commas. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And those are the only times you should have to breathe. And the cool thing about this is if you do that, if you breathe only like before you read a sentence or after, or at the commas or implied commas, then you have much less editing to do. And those of us, which I think Erikka, you are with me, we do long format narration a lot, it lessens the amount of editing you have to do afterwards. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: And if you're talking about a piece of copy, that is an hour finished audio, right? And you're just getting rid of the big [air intake] before the sentence, versus trying to place those words in the proper place because you ran outta breath and now you're trying to piece it together so it sounds reasonable, well, that's maybe four or five or six movements, right, or edits in your software, not including the ones that you take in the beginning. So if you take a good breath in the beginning, you just wipe that out. That's one movement or one mouse swipe compared to four or five, when you're trying to rearrange sentences to make 'em sound decent, which they never do because you've pieced them together when you've run outta breath. And when you run outta breath, your inflection is off. Erikka: Yes. Yes. You're breaking up the story. And like you, you mentioned the swimming analogy. Another thing that like music kind of taught me was budgeting my breath because it could be, I've taken this deep breath. I might have to hold this long note or a high note. You can't like take a breath and then keep holding the note. It kind of, it kills the vibe. It's the same thing with speaking. If you breathe in the wrong place, it doesn't, it just doesn't work. Anne: Now, I like how you said, hold the note. Like if you get really technical about it, right? Holding the note doesn't necessarily mean that you have sound on the note. Right? So for example, I said, right. And I lengthened that. That's like, I would say an emphasized word, which I attribute to a whole note, right? Versus the words leading up to that important emphasized word, which would be half notes, quarter notes, 16th notes. The ones that aren't as important as the long note that you're holding. So I'm just saying that holding the note, you don't always have to have sound. And what I mean is when you are pausing, notice how I says when you are pausing. Notice how I didn't go when. you are pausing. So you're holding that note and that kind of meshes your words together. That sounds very natural. There's a lot of times when I'll tell people you're on the precipice. Don't cut in between your commas. Don't cut the words off, because what it does is it cuts off the idea of the phrase. Because you don't want it to be here, I am going to talk to you in a very crisp voice. And even though I sound conversational, I'm sounding very articulate. So that holding on the precipice of like, I'm about to, right? I didn't say I am about to. I said, I'm about two. So I held my breath and I think that's important for the natural sounding melody. Erikka: Absolutely makes you sound more relatable. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And like, you're actually a person and you're not talking at people. You're talking with someone. That's the difference. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Absolutely. Do you have any exercises that you do like that you used to do to warm up when you were singing that are similar for voiceover? Erikka: I am your classic horrible singer in terms of warming up. We are bad about it. And I'm the first to admit. Anne: Now why is that? 'cause there's -- Erikka: We're just lazy. Anne: -- so many exercises. Well, there's so many exercises out there, and it's funny because -- Erikka: I know. Anne: -- it's always like, okay, what should I warm up with? What should I warm up with? And honestly, do I do warmups every single day before I voice something for an audition? I might, if I just got up out of bed. I'm not hydrated or my mouth hasn't moved, you know? Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne: So, but other than that, it's funny. Sometimes I do a lot of telephony, and little secret, sometimes I warm up with my telephony jobs 'cause they're short. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: You know what I mean? And so honestly I can say those words and those sentences over and over again. And then that helps me to warm up. But I have a great app on my phone called Appcompanist, which my singing instructor Armie -- I'm gonna actually put a link to her 'cause she's amazing -- she got me turned onto that, but that's like, you can sing your scales, and that's helpful to help you get to a vocal placement that you might want to be in. Erikka: You bring up a good point. That it depends on like what you're about to do, because typically because I know that I'm bad about warming up, and I know some things, like you said, singing scales, like bumblebee to get your, you know, blah, blah, blah, your tongue going too, and then like straw foundation and all those kind of things. Or even just singing a song that you know, is close to your natural range. Like, you don't wanna stretch for really high or really low in your first words of the morning. But if I have something like a quick job, like you said, like telephony or in-store messaging or something, and it's where my voice naturally is when I first wake up, which is kind of lower Viola Davis in the basement, I do start with that work first and work my way up to something that might want more upbeat, more a higher pitch possibly. So I'm very aware of where my natural placement is and maybe what's a stretch for me, and I warm up in that way. Anne: Well, okay. So here's my question, right? So there's little tricks, I think, 'cause I, of course in the morning I, I have a lower voice and I'm like, oh I wanna do the audition in the lower voice or this is a great gig for me in my lower voice. So if I wanna get to my lower voice again, right, I can sing it down there. And when I sing it down there, I'll just, you know, do a scale, and it'll be up to scale. And then ba ba ba, you know, I'll get down to the scale and I can feel where the voice is in my mouth or my throat or in my chest. And interestingly enough, once I feel where it is, I can then use that as a starting point for -- Erikka: Yes, absolutely. Anne: -- my conversational, authentic, believable read. And that's how I get vocal placement to kind of change the start of the read. Now, besides that in terms of song, right, and melody, there's also the emotion. Now back in the day when I was playing piano, me and my best friend played piano together. Now she was amazing. She could sight-read and learn and play these incredibly complex classical pieces of music. And it used to always like, competitive Anne, I used to always get like, mm okay, fine. But my teacher used to always make me feel better because she said you have the feeling. You have the passion. And I think that understanding that along with melody, there's passion and nuance and emotion. So if you wanna get yourself to another place, another read along with vocal placement, you can then decide to understand the story and start from a different place in the scene or have a different reaction to it. And that means a different emotion to it. And that's gonna color the melody of the song differently. Erikka: Yeah. And absolutely like you mentioned kind of knowing where the voice is gonna come from. So as you're doing your script analysis, you can kind of think about where this character, you know, even if it's not character work, it's still a character 'cause you're reading as someone else, other than yourself -- where does that live? If it's very sort of determined and you know, gritty, it might be in your chest. It might even be more down in your gut. Like you said, it might be a little more in the throat if it's kind of mid and if it's, you know, really super upbeat and you're excited and it's like a sales presentation, you might be a little more in the nose or the head. So yeah. Thinking about where that vocal placement is gonna be, that's going to tell the story from that character's point of view, is key. Anne: Yeah. And I think vocal placement, like singing-wise, for me, gets me to the starting point. Then it becomes the story, and it becomes the emotion and the character, which I'm so glad you brought up character, because character's so important. Now when you sing, did you think you were a character? I mean, that's just a question I have. Were you placing yourself in a scene or is it just the melody of the song carried you? Erikka: You know, it's very funny you say that because what was always sort of my strong point and what I would talk about in interviews for my musical performances is that I really honed in on the feeling. And I think that was why I was able to translate into voiceover so seamlessly was because I was always coming from the place of story. And if my voice cracked or something, I just kind of, you know, I hated it 'cause I'm like competitive, like you and I'm like, I wanna be perfect, but I'm like, that may have gone with the story. So it was very much from the place of feeling. And my goal was to make you feel this story when I was sang it. I loved making people cry like. Anne: Right, right, right. Erikka: I would find a way to connect with the lyrics and the way that singing the notes and the melody from the place of that emotion and not necessarily quite so technical. Anne: Isn't that awesome? Like the more you really study music and voiceover, and it comes down to what's important? What is it that connects with the people who are listening to you? It ultimately comes out to be the storytelling, the emotion. Because that's what connects us, I think, as humans. And again, those of you out there that are afraid of AI, it's nowhere near coming to that human emotion, which is where we're always gonna win out. And we're always gonna win out for those people who decide that they want to hire that. Right? To connect to an audience. And so I think we always have that humanity. We have that feeling, that emotion, that nuance, that connects with our audience, and that's what we have to work on, I think, in our voiceover careers, if we want to continue to be successful while we are evolving along with AI voices, which have their place in certain, I think, genres. They're going to have their place. I mean, I say this because I talk to Alexa every day. Do you know what I mean? And I'm okay with Alexa's voice. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Alexa helps me get things done. And so I really do believe that the market will shift. But we always need to connect with the heart and the emotion. And it's so interesting that you vocally through singing as well as storytelling and voiceover, it all comes down to that. Erikka: Yeah. You have to make it personal. And that's, you know, kind of what we hear in, in voiceover is you have to connect to the story. And the songs that I found that were my favorite, and that I could tell were the most impactful were the ones where I found a personal connection to it. And I enjoyed like, it felt like a push. Like I literally would feel less anxious because I got that energy outta my body because I was literally like in it. And when you do the same thing, you can do the same thing with these scripts and voiceover, it's going to be more connected. It's going to naturally have a more balanced melody that sounds human because you've connected with it on a human level. So. Anne: And even though we talk about melody of conversation, there's that uniqueness of you, what you bring to it. Erikka: Yes. Anne: Even when we talk about character, I think sometimes when I talk to people about character, they think about cartoon characters, right? And they're playing another persona. Well, maybe they are, but there's always an element of you that is brought along with that character. And, and for, let's say more nuanced type of genres like corporate narration, eLearning, you're still a character. You're just maybe not as dramatic. In corporate, you're probably always gonna work for the company. You'll be a representative of the company, and in eLearning you're gonna be a teacher. And so those are characters, and those characters have emotions and feelings, and that's the special part that you and you alone can bring to the party, and to make it so uniquely yours where people say, I need to have an Erikka J to narrate that. I need to have an Anne Ganguzza to teach that. Whatever that is, it's that understanding of a vocal placement with a nuance of emotion and telling a story. Erikka: Yep. Absolutely. Anne: So let me ask you a question. Are you still pursuing, singing at all or singing in your voiceover? Erikka: You know, I've had a couple actually jobs and auditions where I've gotten the opportunity to sing as well. So I like that kind of keeps me fresh, but I haven't been pursuing it as much. I love music. I mean, it is definitely what got me here. My first love from way back when I was tiny, but it got to be a lot of, a lot of work with not a lot of return. Anne: Sure, right. That's tough. Erikka: Not as much as voiceover, it is. So maybe when my plate lightens up a little bit, I've thought about, you know, eh, maybe we'll, we'll do a little more music again, but for now it's really voiceover is the thing. Anne: I was like, why don't they bring jingles back? I feel like they're so identifiable. Erikka: I just did one. I just did one like a week ago. Anne: Did you? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Wow. Erikka: Yeah. It wasn't super corny at all, but yeah, there are very few in far in between, but yeah, I do get a couple. Anne: And I think, you know, in certain genres too, singing can help. Maybe with kids, genres that are, they're talking to kids, there can be more melody in it. Erikka: Oh yeah. Animation for sure. Anne: Yeah. You know, there's melody in everything, in the speaking language. And I think a lot of people don't even think of it in terms of melody. They just think of it in terms of reading words. And there's so much more to it, and I can't stress enough the importance of understanding the story before you tell it. A lot of us just pick up a script and we start reading from left to right. And you don't know what the story is when that happens. And so how can you have any connection to it or how can you have any emotion about it if you don't know what it's about? And so I think that's the last layer. So many people they think about melody in terms of it should sound like this. Erikka: Yeah, exactly. Anne: But in, in reality, the sound has to be natural. The sound has to come from you organically when you are telling a story, not so much in, it should sound like this, you know? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Because then it just, what happens is you're spending so much time. I think thinking about what it should sound like, that you take away from the amount of time you have to understand the story and then tell it. 'Cause in order to tell it, you've gotta understand it. In order to understand it. You've gotta read it. Right? Erikka: Yep. Anne: But not as a take, you gotta read it first, understand it, comprehend it and then tell it back, right? That's how we tell stories. Right? We have experiences and then we recall that experience and we tell it back. So how can you take words off a page if you don't know what they say and tell that story? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And probably reading it at least two or three times. And you know, maybe to yourself, as well as out loud and not performing it so that you are just, again, internalizing that story and really understanding it, having the reading comprehension of it, where sometimes I've noticed that I might switch a word around or I might do a contraction because I'm not even reading it anymore. You know, and of course your client will tell you if it's like, oh, we really need it to say can not, and then you'll go back and fix it. But to me that has been a clue that like I'm really into the story. Not like a true misread, like something that's, you know, really integral to the message. But if I'm naturally contracting something, it's like, okay, my brain's on auto pilot. And I really understand what I'm saying. So making sure that you're balancing that melody and rhythm. Anne: Yeah. I think for me with corporate, I do so much corporate that I've kind of gotten away from the contractualization. Not that I don't wanna do it. It's just simply usually those of the scripts that, and e-learning are usually they go through so many rounds of approvals. That's true. And if it's written one way, I pretty much just voice it. But what I will do yeah. Is if I do feel a contraction will make it sound easier, I will give that as an alternate take. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Hopefully that just is you, by the way, in case you wanted this, they have it. And then they're like, oh, that Anne, she takes care of us. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: She's wonderful. Let's hire her again and again and again. Erikka: And as corporate is becoming increasingly conversational and they wanna really relate to their employee base, I find that they're more open and amenable to that stuff, but great point that some of this stuff is really locked down because of legal. Um, so yeah. Anne: Also the thing is with corporate, because again with corporate, just, there's such a vast amount of corporate work. The companies that know how to story tell with their brand will write good scripts. And so you won't have those run on sentences. You won't have things that maybe aren't contractualized that will sound awkward. They hire copywriters that will write something that will sound good when it gets put on production. So. Erikka: Yep. Agreed. Anne: Yeah, it's a thing. So there is a thing, guys, BOSSes out there, called melody, and it does affect our performance. And so try not to think so much about the technicality of it, but understanding how technically there are certain things that happen in a conversational melody that in order to sound natural, dictate how we're going to tell that story. So we're not gonna be too high or too dramatic with our changes in notes. We're gonna start in a certain placement and then just concentrate on telling that story. And I think the melody will follow. Erikka: Indeed. Couldn't have said it better myself. The more that you're naturally connected, that melody is just gonna come out in the way that it should be, because it'll be natural for you. Anne: Such a cool conversation. I love talking about conversational melody. Erikka: Love it. Anne: Yeah. So BOSSes, a good way to really start to understand it is just listen to two people, having a conversation, for example, listen to all the episodes of VO BOSS. And you can really start to break apart what does conversations sound like? And you'll know that unless we're really excited, we don't go very high, and we have all sorts of rhythm besides just the pitch. That's all about rhythm and timing and imperfection, believe it or not. You know, I wish I was speaking Pulitzer Prize-winning sentences, but I don't. And therefore that causes the rhythm and the timing and the pacing and all sorts of things to make it sound just natural and believable. So thanks, Erikka, for a really cool conversation. Erikka: Thank you, Anne. This is lovely. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So BOSSes out there, you can make a huge difference in someone's life for a small, quarterly contribution. And you might think that as a small company, you can't make a huge difference, but you really can. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And of course, a huge shout out to my favorite, favorite networking sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and sound like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, BOSSes. Have a wonderful week. Erikka: Bye! Anne: See you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you have a vision board in your office? Because it may just help you achieve your goals. Anne and special guests Leah Marks & Nic Redman dive into what it takes to make your dreams a reality. The small steps, to-do lists, and simply articulating what your goals are can help you reverse-engineer your way to success. If that sounds overwhelming, do not fear Bosses! Leah & Nic co-authored The Voiceover Career Planner to help. It is part daily planner, part personal VO coach, featuring 52 experts offering weekly encouragement. Want to learn more? Keep on listening. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguza, and I am here with a special episode with the lovely and talented ladies from the UK's most popular podcast for voiceovers, the VO Social. Welcome to the show Leah Marks and Nic Redman. Leah: Hi! Nic: Hello. I love how you say the title of our podcast. . VO Social! Anne: VO Social! Nic: That's amazing. Anne: Yes, it is good to have you back here on the podcast. Leah: Oh, we missed you so much. Oh, it's been awful, Anne, terrible. Anne: Well, I think we should catch up a little bit then since we last spoke. So tell me a little bit about what's new in the world of voiceover for you guys over there in the UK. Leah: Well, Nic, you go first. You go first. Nic: I have nothing hugely exciting to say about voiceover. Leah: Okay. I'll go first. . Nic: Okay, great. Thanks. I mean, I've been doing all the amazing, exciting jobs. They're all under NDA. I can't tell you about anything. Anne: There you go. Leah: Of course. Yeah. You're basically the queen of voiceover right now, but no one can ever know. Nic: Yeah, yeah. Anne: No one can know. No one can know. Yeah. I can't tell you about it or we'd have -- Nic: I'm coaching (?) so busy say, so I've just sort of been focusing on that. Anne: Fantastic. Leah: Yes, yes. I've been throwing myself headlong into acting, and I've been writing a play, which I'm now halfway through one draft of, which is not enough the way through any of the drafts so far, but I'm getting there. I'm getting my way through it. I am. So that's what that's, what's new for me. Definitely. Anne: Things are changing all the time. Right? I remember the last time that we spoke, I had to look this up, 'cause I felt like it was forever ago. It was July of 2021, right? Smack dab in the middle of that pandemic. Well, we were thinking it was the end, right? or the end of the pandemic. We were hoping. Remember when it was supposed to be like a month or two and we'd be okay? Leah: Remember when there wasn't one? Do remember when there was absolutely nothing to worry about? I liked that time. Anne: Exactly. Gosh. Well, you know, we had a big conversation in that episode about having a plan B, because things change and evolve. And I think, gosh, we had a discussion about AI and synthetic voices and how do we evolve and keep afloat during tough times or even just evolving times with the voiceover industry, 'cause it changes so rapidly. So I, I thought we should have a talk about that. Leah: Yeah. About the future and how to cope with it. Nic: Well, actually I'm speaking to you with my AI. This isn't real Nic, this is AI Nic . So that's how my life has evolved. Leah: Oh Nic, do your AI voice. Do it, do it, do it. It's amazing. And get ready. Anne: I'm ready. I'm ready. Nic: I don't know why, but I'm very good at doing an AI voice. Leah: Yay! Oh it's so -- Anne: That's fantastic. Nic: Really bad AI voice, a really bad one. Yeah. I'm working loads in that one; that one's really busy. Leah: Anne: Well, I remember we had talked about one of the things that we were doing having maybe not necessarily plan B, but just yeah. Plan B for when you evolved to expand your genres or expand your acting. Right? Expand your performance, which I think is always important. And I think acting is a great part of that, in terms of always evolving and creating new voices that are something that people want to hire. Leah: Yes, exactly, exactly. And I think you're right about planning and trying to be prepared for whatever may come. We've got a lot of things to say about planning at the moment. We've got like both of our heads absolutely stuffed with planning and goal setting and how to achieve your goals and all steps. Oh God. The lot of it. Yes. Anne: I'll tell you what. I have my personal experience, and I've actually spoken about this as well. First of all, I have to write things down. I have a notepad, old school or not -- actually I love my notepad because I can actually write things down, and when I finish them, I can cross them out. And that is so satisfying. Leah: That is nice. Nic: Satisfying. Anne: So satisfying. So I have that on a daily to do, but I also have spoken about the importance of goal setting. And I will tell you in my experience, when you set goals and you write them down, it really helps to make them happen. What are your experiences? Leah: So my experiences of making things happen, I'm a list person. I work out what I want, and then I work out to all the things I need to do in order to make it happen. And then I work out when I'm going to do those things. And then I break it down into whether I'm going to do them that month or that week or that day or in the morning of that day or the evening. And I break it all down so that I can't fail or does I feel like I can't fail. 'Cause I'm on a path then. I'm never in a situation where I have nothing to do to achieve my goal. So for example, with the acting and the playwriting, I want to be working in more audio drama. So in order for that to happen, I need to get audio drama produces to see that I'm a great actor. In order for that to happen, I need to be in more theater. In order for that to happen, I need an acting agent. In order for that to happen, I need to be on stage in the first place. In order for that to happen I need to write my own show. And so -- Anne: Well, and you also need acting, right? Maybe you want acting classes too, right? So you're working on all aspects of it. Leah: Exactly, exactly. Anne: That's like you just took what you wanted and worked backwards. Leah: That's exactly, exactly it. That's exactly it. Well, what we've done is we've reversed engineered. Anne: Oh that's it, that's it, reverse engineered, that's it. Leah: Yes. Yeah. So we've created this book, a tangible, hold it in your hand, change your life with one item book that allows people to do this exact thing, to work out what they want, work out how to get there, and then actually make it happen. So it's called the Voiceover Career Planner. We actually launched it last year. Anne: Awesome. Leah: We printed 100 copies, and we sold that right away; within less than a month, they were gone. And then what we did was we got all of those people who bought the planner to send us feedback. We squeezed as much information out of them as we possibly, possibly could. And then we poured all of that information into the second generation planner that is out September 2022, which I believe is when this episode is coming out. So we've got a lot of real life user experience. Nic: Yeah. Social proof, I think they call it -- Leah: Social proof. Nic: -- in the business. Leah: Social proof. Exactly. Anne: So let me ask you what makes it different than my list, my to-do list? Nic: What makes it different to a list? I don't wanna comment on the aesthetic of your list, Anne, to start with, but it's incredibly fit. It's dead fit and attractive as a planner, it's really glam. It's got gold on it and stuff, but joking aside. Anne: Well, there's something to be said for that. I mean, aesthetics. Nic: This is it. Hopefully enough. One of the things that came up, I was doing a session in my vocal empowerment program, which is an online voice technique training course that I run. And I bring in this guest expert to talk about habit creation, because the whole point of the program is to give people the vocal skills to want to do their warmup every day and feel like they can do and fit it in their routine. And she talks a lot about like one of the things that you need in order to build a habit, IE, make sure you do things to get towards your goals, is to make it attractive. Like make it seem like a nice thing. Anne: Yes, I agree. Nic: So this is why people love vision boards and they love, you know, putting things on like nice post-its that are pretty and stuff. 'Cause if you -- it's, like you say, the version of attractive for you with your list is, it's attractive for you 'cause you write it down, you get to put a gorging line through it, which is really, really sort of satisfying. And I think with the planner, what's nice about it is a you think, A, look at me, I've bought this. Aren't I dead good? I've got this and I'm committed. I'm gonna use it every day. Look at me with my planner. I'm so professional. Anne: Look at me with my planner. Nic: And it's so pretty. Yeah. And then you open it up, and it's got all this amazing information at the start, which has loads of different insights into even stuff like studio troubleshooting, website and SEO, vocal warmups, habit creation. Anne: So it's a daily planner? Nic: Yeah. And then it's got like a page a day. Anne: Okay. Nic: Oh no, the new one's -- Leah: So we've changed it slightly from the feedback from users. We realized that we could improve the usability even further and create a bit more room to write essentially by making the planner itself a little bit bigger. And so it's now somewhere between A5 and A4 size, if that means anything to you. Anne: Yes, it does, actually. Nic: Planner size. I dunno if you're into planners. I've gone about 49. Anne: Well, I used to scrapbook, so I understand page sizes, and I did a lot of printing. So I understand page sizes for sure. Nic: This is what mine sounds like. I've got it. Here, look. Leah: Oh nice. Anne: Oh! Leah: But this is -- so the way it's structured -- Anne: ASMR. Wait. Planner, ASMR. Leah: Oh yeah. Anne: Go ahead. Do that again. Ready? Leah: Oh. Anne: Oh. Leah: Lovely. Anne: That is satisfying. Well, let me ask you a question though, because first of all, I like places to write, that's for sure. And the cool thing is, is that I think if I'm trying to write down, it's not just a list of to-dos. There's other things. Leah: No, no, no. Anne: We talked about goals. Leah: Let me take you through it. Anne: Yes. Take me through it. Leah: So the first thing that happens is it guides you through setting goals, helping you work out what your goals are, whether they are achievable, and how they can be achievable, and then the different actions that you're going need in order to be able to get you there. So there's loads of like supports and structure in terms of that, several pages of that. Then once you've worked out what your goals are going to be, the majority of the planner is taken up with 52 weeks. So it's not dated. So you can start it at any point in the year. It's a 52 week planner. So at the beginning of every week, there's a plan out your week page with a special section for planning your social media content for the week as well. And then after that you have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday has half a space each because we're trying to encourage people to also take some time off. And then you set at the top of the page, what you want to achieve during the day. And then you can work out if you want to, what time during the day you want to achieve those things. And once you've got it all written down, then that is such an encouragement to actually go through it like you say, and draw a line through it. But it's not just the sort of overwhelming blank space that you would get if you just had a notebook. It's structured for you. It feels, I think, more comfortable to walk into it, to use a book like that, to use a page like that because it feels supportive. It's saying, okay, here are the things. Here is a space in which you can achieve something. And here is a way that you can do it. Why don't you just pop the details in here? And then it makes it happen. The other thing that we've got then is we've got reviews throughout the year. So like you say, the world changes, things change, you change, your circumstances change. And so every quarter, there's then an opportunity to review how your goals are going so far and whether you want to add in some more, whether you want to adjust the ones that you've got, whether you wanna change deadlines, what you might need to do in order to achieve those things. Again, you can assess that again. So it keeps you going all the way through the year, checking in with you. The other nice thing that happens is at the beginning of every week, we've got 52, and you know about this already, Anne, but 52 experts to give us their top tip. We've asked 52 people at the top of their game, across the audio industry, what is the one thing that you need voiceovers to know that will really benefit them, that you are the perfect person to advise on? And uh, so Anne, as you know, you are one of my 52 experts. Anne: Wow! Leah: Because we've put you -- Anne: So honored. Leah: Do you want to know where we've put you? Anne: So honored. Where? Leah: We've put you on the final week. So we are building up all year. Nic: You're the headliner, Anne. You're the headliner. Anne: Save the best -- no, I can't say that. No. Thank you. I'm so honored actually. Leah: You very, very welcome. Anne: Thank you very much. Wow. Yeah. So it sounds like what you're describing to me -- because I have done research on planners. I'm always looking for the perfect planner. Like there are different planners and they have different things. And I think first of all, one customized for voiceover, our industry, number one, is brilliant because I want quotes that relate, that relate to me. And I think that if there's information and quotes and goal setting that can particularly relate to our industry, first of all, that's super helpful. And I had decided back in the day, and there's people that go back and forth about which planner's best -- well, I settled on a Panda planner. But it sounds to me like you've got all the functionality of all these really great planners that are best sellers in this VO planner. Leah: Well, what we've done is Nic's been using them for years and having the same experience as you. Nic: Let me tell you, I love a plan. I love a list. I love writing stuff in a place, and I have been searching for the right planner. I've tried lots of planners.- Anne: Right. For years, right? Nic: For ages. Yeah. So I've got like, well, I won't name all of, but I've got loads of different ones, loads of different sizes and different vibes. And most of them are quote, unquote business planners, which is fine, but there's something really special about having something that you open that you can completely relate to. And instead of seeing some, to be honest, like generic NAF quote about like agree, living the dream or the sun rising over the money pot, whatever the hell it is, in manifesting this nonsense into your life, opening it and seeing a really useful quote about a voice type thing or a studio thing or an agent thing is so much more comforting, I think, and inspiring. Anne: Right. And it gives you ideas for your goals, I think. Nic: Yeah. Leah: Exactly. Yeah. Anne: Because I think that there's a lot of people, they may or may not think so deeply into their goals, but I think one thing that helps me when I'm goal setting is to break them down into realistic goals. And I think most people, when they say, okay, I'm gonna plan or they try to do something in the new year, they'll be like, okay, I wanna make six figures in voiceover, and I wanna get an animation job with Disney or something like that. So they're picking these lofty goals, and I don't think a lot of people really take the time to kind of break that down and reverse engineer it like we were talking about earlier to find out, okay, what is it actually going to take to get to that step? And I think something that can help you or encourage you or give you this space to break that down will make it easier. Because I'd love to have like a great coach every day saying, okay, what is your business plan for today? How are you gonna grow your business? And it's one of these things that we all have to do kind of on our own. We can get business advice. We can have maybe a coach that does that, but a planner that can help you on a day-to-day basis to do that, I think is really fantastic. And I'm not trying to take away from business coaching at all, but I think it can be a really great supplement, so that whatever you are thinking in terms of goal setting, this can help you break it down into easier, more manageable steps and give you inspiration along the way. Leah: It's like you've read our website. That was brilliant. . Nic: That's exactly it. Anne: Wow! Nic: Okay. Bye. Leah: Thank you! See you later! Anne: It's so funny because it's exactly my experience. I mean, I've been in the business for a long time. I know you ladies have also been in the business a long time. And I think it's something that we ultimately arrive at. This is what we need to do in order to really grow our businesses. I mean, I know for myself, I'm still going through evolution of growing my business. I don't wanna stay stagnant. First of all, we're creatives. Right? That becomes boring to me. And so I'm always trying to look for new things, new ways to grow my business and especially adapt to the way that the industry is evolving today. I mean, we've got more competition than ever -- Leah: Yeah, of course. Anne: -- in this industry. And I think the people who are smart and can plan ahead, and women of a certain age myself, I'm talking, I'm looking towards retirement. I wanna be able to -- Leah: Oh, stop it. Or unless you're, you're saying that you want to retire extremely early. 'Cause you're doing so well. Anne: That would be nice. Leah: Fine. Okay, good. Anne: But no, I'm at that point where now that this is a full time gig for me, right? I mean I used to work back in the corporate world day to day, and people took care of my health insurance and my, I got paid no matter what, you know, every so often. Now having my own business for this amount of time, I'm still looking to the future, and I don't wanna have to worry when I retire. So I'm constantly planning my business, how I can maintain and/or improve and grow it so that I can put enough money aside for that day when I retire and I just have a ton of fun traveling the world. That's what I want to do. Leah: That is a great goal. Where are you gonna go first when you've got all the time? Anne: Probably Italy first, but I do love the UK. I have to say, I have said this since I visited the last couple of times, I have said over and over again. I really, really love, I really love it there. Leah: Oh great! Anne: Yeah. I would love to spend some time and maybe spend part of the year in Europe, Italy, the UK, and then maybe come back to California. That's my goals. Leah: What a lovely dream, I love it. Anne: My financial goals -- right? And I need to be able to set those plans in place and I love to write things down. That's the other good thing. Leah: That's it? Anne: I really believe -- and I'm telling you, it's funny because I never really believed. I'm like, oh, that's kind of like that fluffy stuff, set your goals, write it down. And honestly you just have to do it once. And then you realize that, wow, you kind of manifest it when you write that down and you break it down. Right? Leah: It's so funny you should talk about that because one of the things that we did over the last six months or so is choose a voiceover who in no way used a planner to follow while he used a planner to see how it adjusted his outlook or changed any of his outcomes. Nic: Our planner; he used our planner. Leah: Yes, yes. Specifically our first generation planner. Yes. Um, so we got a guy called Joe Troy, who is a UK voiceover. And the only way that he planned at all before he met us and our planner was by writing down what he wanted on a piece of paper, and then like, squirreling it away somewhere. And then looking at it again at the end of the year, see how -- Anne: Right, right. Leah: That was it. And that is one way of doing things, sort of magical thinking kind of thing. And uh, and he was doing all right, like he was winning awards already. So he was doing pretty well for himself, but then he started using the voiceover career planner. And every month when we put out a new episode, we'd check in with Joe, we had a little jingle. Could you sing the jingle? Anne: Oh my God, that's -- Nic: Joe Joe, Joe, Joe Joe Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe the VO. Anne: . Leah: Yay! That was great. I, I was gonna try and sing it with you, but then I realized the delay would make it awful for everyone. But yeah. So that was the jingle. . And so we'd catch up with him, and he would talk about a different element of the planet that he was using and how that was affecting things. Ad it was brilliant because it was making such a difference to how like aware he was sure of what he was doing in order to make himself get to where he wanted to be. Nic: And that was accountability as well, wasn't it? Leah: He was already doing well, but yeah. Yes, that's exactly it. Yeah. Anne: I think the part of it is not just writing it down, but then also looking at it, and it serves, I think, as a reminder, on a day to day basis. Or, you know, you've gotta look at your goals, I think, more than once a year, because it helps you to cement that goal in your head, in your brain, in your mentality, in your flow to really, I think, move forward. So I wanna know, if there is space for me to write down my accomplishments or things I'm proud of. Leah: Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes. So we have a wonderful feature, which was actually, um, thought up by somebody in our focus group originally called Brendan -- shout out to Brendan, 'cause this is my favorite element of the planner. At the end of every week, there is a prompt to tell you to go to the back of the book and write down the one big thing that you achieved that week that you're most proud of on one page. And at the end of the year, you then have 52 things that you've achieved that year that you can be proud of staring at you in the face, congratulating you in one big, massive page of text. And I think that is such a wonderful thing. Anne: Oh, so important. Yes. Leah: 'Cause otherwise you can so easily forget. Nic: There's also a job tally chart, which I quite like. So every time you do a job, it's on a monthly basis. So you can like put a little tally in when you've done a job and then you can write down how much you've earned that monthly bottom corner. So there's light financials, nothing too intense for the financials. Leah: But it's good for an overview, isn't it? Nic: Just encouraging you to go, but how much have I earned, yeah, to keep a track on things 'cause that helps you forecast for the next year. Leah: Exactly. Anne: Well, in addition to that, I'm -- the financial yes, absolutely. But the accomplishments I think are so overlooked. When you look at what you've accomplished, it really -- first of all, not only does it make you feel amazing, right? Because you see everything you accomplished that you might have forgotten about, and you, and you might be down on yourself and saying, well, I don't feel like I've progressed at all or have I done any better this year than last year or even this month versus last month? But when you can look and see all that you've accomplished, it also sets the foundation for moving forward and progressing and growing. So I absolutely think that's one of the most important things you can do is not only to write down what your goals are, but write those accomplishments and celebrate them. No matter how big or small they are, they don't have to be huge accomplishments. Leah: You've really gotta feel like it's worthwhile, haven't you? So there's a couple of things. One of them is yes, you can see what you've done, but also like you were saying earlier about being able to see your goals, not just pinning it somewhere and forgetting about it. But also being able to look at your goal and remember that that's what you're doing it for because I think that as creatives, we can sometimes feel a bit like -- and what I'm about to say is not true for everyone, but it can sometimes be true for me, is that I want to be in the studio recording. Right? And I think that's what the goal for most of us is wanna be in the studio recording, but a lot of the work that we have to do in order to be able to get there -- so all the entrepreneurial stuff, all the SEO and the marketing and the business management, all of that is essential in order to get us there. But it can feel like such a drag for me sometimes. But then when you've got your goal right there in front of you, and you know that every single thing that you do is working you towards that end game, that thing that you want more than anything, that creativity, that purpose, then it makes it feel much more worthwhile, and it can make you feel less alone and less bored. Also. I think Anne: Of course that whole less alone too, because again, we are entrepreneurs; we're kind of our own businesses. Right? And I think there's a lot of, we seek support in others, in groups. But I think also to not feel so alone in terms of how your business is growing and being able to share that with others, let's say if you have a mastermind group or something like that. I think that's also really important to be able to have that in order to grow that business. And I know there's so many, so many of my students have been really frustrated lately in terms of like, but how do I get the work? I feel like I'm going nowhere. What can I do? And I'm always trying to think like most of the times my answer is, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And I think if you have something that you can just record and document your achievements, you know, your goals, what's happening on a day to day basis, and just go back and review it, that's an important thing too, is really helpful in helping you feel like, okay, I've got something solid here that is growing, is advancing even though I don't think it is. And I think your mental state about your business really has an effect on your performance as well. Nic: And I think it's about like keeping yourself accountable as well. It's very easy to sort of like you say, things change a lot and you know, you might think in your head, oh yeah. I'd quite like to do something in animation this year. But you know, two, three months in or first quarter in, you suddenly realize you've forgotten about that because you've been so busy with the usual corporate stuff you do, and you've not made any steps towards that, but if you've written it down, and you keep going back to it and going, oh yeah, I did say I was gonna do that. What steps do I need to get there? What could I feasibly do today to help me get a wee bit further? So for me, like accountability is one of the most powerful things in business. It's having someone or something to remind you of what you should be doing or checking in on you a little bit, you know, and that's almost like what the planner does 'cause you open it and you see you see your goals and it's like, have you done this though? So I think that's really useful. I mean, it doesn't talk to you. It's just a book. So don't don't think it's -- Leah: Oh, there is a little bit of that. Nic: -- cards that you open with my AI voice. Anne: Well, wouldn't that be cool? Leah: Well, we've extended beyond just paper though. 'Cause obviously we're not at app stage yet if we ever will be, but we have got a lovely little QR code at the back of the book, which is sort of an exclusive thing for planner users. So if you scan that QR code, it then takes you to a secret page on the website, which is absolutely full of additional use for content links, to some of the things I mentioned in the planner. There's going to be one of the new things with the second generation planner is. And actually I think you're the first person we're telling about this at this moment. Anne: That's fantastic. I love it. Nic: It's exclusive. Anne: It's not just the planner, but it's a website full of resources. Wow. Leah: Well, the QR code and the website full of resources was there since the first generation. But the new thing that no one else has heard about is the new way of presenting warmups that we put in this second generation. So what we wanted to do was create a resource for people so they would, they would know what warmup routine to use depending on what job or what type of job they were about to go into or what sort of session they were about to go into. And so Nic has worked very, very hard and developed these extraordinary four different routines that kind of -- between all four of them they cover almost every eventuality you can imagine. So it was not just about if it is a corporate job, if it is a five minute job, like it's everything that you can possibly think of. Anne: Wow. Leah: So when you scan the QR code at the back of the planner, so not only do you have the list of the different warmup exercises, but you also, when you scan the QR code at the back of the planner, it takes you to Nic guiding those warmups. Nic: Hiya. Anne: I want it. I'm sold. Leah: Yep. Anne: All right. So tell us then, because I'm so excited; I hope you're making more than 100 'cause I have a feeling. Leah: We are this time. Yes. Anne: It sounds amazing, number one. I want one of course. But how can BOSSes out there get ahold of this? Because it sounds amazing. Leah: Right. So we are doing a very different and special thing for our international customers this year. Because last time round, it was very tricky to get planners out to people outside of the UK. It was a palaver, the delivery cost, the distance, that, oh my God. This time we're doing it completely differently. We're using global distributors and people can find out how to get their planner simply by going to thevosocial.com/shop. And they'll be directed then to where to go, if you're an international, IE, outside of the UK customer straightforward. Anne: And when will this be available again? Leah: 1st Of September. Anne: 1st Of September. And I think we were talking about a special thing for the BOSSes. Leah: Yes. Especially for VO BOSS listeners. All you have to do when you get to the point where you are buying your planner is type in the discount code section, BOSS10. And you will get your very own 10% off the planner. What a deal. What a lovely time. Anne: Thank you. I love it. Leah: You're really welcome. Anne: BOSSes, you are getting in on this deal as early as we possibly can or we know about it. So I think we're gonna probably sell out. Better get there quick. So we don't sell out in 24 hours. Leah: Yeah. Anne: Okay, fantastic. So I am so excited about this planner, and I wish I had it now Now if BOSSes want to connect with you guys, how can they do that? Leah: Well, first of all, we're going to be in New York next week. So if you are in New York, then immediately come and find us. We're gonna be speaking at VOcation, which is very, very exciting. Nic: Yeah. But we'll also be eating all of the food in New York. so you could probably find us in any of the places that sell foods. Leah: I'm going to make a duvet out of pizza slices. Anne: Yes. Yes. Leah: That'd be great. Anne: I'm so glad that you can appreciate the pizza from New York. That is for sure. Leah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nic: I don't get a giant pizza like in Friends, I'm, I'm not coming back ever again. I want a pizza with a diameter bigger than my entire arm span. Anne: That's awesome. Leah: But then if you are not in New York, if you are just outside of New York, you don't intend to come to New York, that's fine. It's okay. Each to their own. We're also available online for your every whim. Nic: Where can people find you, Leah? Leah: Yes. Okay. So @Leah_ETC. That's me. Yep. Nic: For all your Leahs, etc. Leah: Wherever you might go for that sort of thing. Anne: For your every whim. And Nic. Nic: I'm also in the internet when I'm not in New York eating a giant pizza. And you can find me at @NicRedVoice on the ol' Instagram, or you can just find everything about me in my other podcast, The Voice Coach podcast , at my website, which is www. -- that's three W's dot NicRedmanvoice.com. Anne: Love it. Love it. Well, ladies, it was such a pleasure having you today. And I cannot wait for this planner. And BOSSes, go out, get yourself a planner today, as soon as you possibly can. Don't forget about our special deal. BOSSes, here is a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit to this. Also a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes like we have done today and find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, ladies. It's been a pleasure. BOSSes, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye! Leah: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

You deserve to take up space & feel valued for the work you are doing. In this episode, Anne & Erikka discuss how saying no to jobs builds your career as much as saying yes! There is morality involved with lending your voice to a person or company. In making these difficult choices, it is essential to keep your brand & personal integrity aligned with the jobs you take. Bosses, have the confidence to say no, and if you need a little boost, your favorite hosts are here to help. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our balance series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to start my day again with the lovely Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey, Anne. Anne: How are you? Erikka: How are you? I'm pretty good. Anne: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Erikka: Hangin' in there. Anne: It's been a crazy year or a couple of years. Hasn't it? Erikka: It has. Yeah, for sure. Anne: And I have to say that I got a job offer the other day to do something for a political candidate. And it made me think, because my thoughts about voicing things for, let's say, political and/or let's say anything else that maybe I may, may not believe in have changed and have evolved over my career here. And I thought it might be an interesting conversation to have with you. Maybe our moral compass, so to speak. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Balancing that and balancing your yeses maybe, you know what I mean? Like what you say yes to and your no, 'cause your nos can shape your career just as much as what you do decide to voice. Anne: Oh, right there. That's a golden nugget. We can go home now because that says it all. Honestly, I think sometimes no is even more powerful than a yes and can really help define in so many ways. Well, just a little more on that job that I was talking about, you know, it was for a political spot, and I literally went so far as to look up the candidate because it wasn't evident by the content right away what was happening there. I ultimately, I ultimately said no to it because it did not align with my beliefs and not just the copy, but because I said it was hard to tell with the copy because it was a candidate that wasn't as well known. And so I just said no, and I'm thinking about myself, maybe, I don't know, five years ago, or even later than that. I might have said, you know what? It's, it's a gig. It's a political gig. Let's do it. Let's get on board. What about you? I know you do a lot of political work, and it may not just be political work, but -- Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of political, and in the very beginning of my career, like literally, like I had been probably doing voiceover for like a month, and I did have a quasi-political sort of thing come to me. But now kind of looking back on it and it was weird because when I did it, I was like, well, you know, I'm just starting and oh my gosh, they booked me and they want me and I can do it, you know? And it's like, yeah, it's kind of borderline, but I'll just do it. And I've regretted it ever since. And it probably lived for like two weeks. It was something that was very short term, but it was supporting a candidate that I was not in support of somewhat. Like I said, a roundabout, like, I didn't say their, their name. But it was just that I learned that not all work is good work if it's going to misalign with your gut and how you feel and your own beliefs. And if from a more business standpoint, misalign with your brand. You don't want to jeopardize the trust that you've built with your clients that do align with your values and your brand. And then they're like, well, why is she voicing this? So I stopped doing that. Anne: Yeah. And I find that now, especially now, 'cause it's such a divisive climate these days politically that I think it's just shaping my business in a way that I didn't anticipate, number one. Not that I do a ton of political. I mean I do enough political to know now I'm absolutely like checking on the candidates, finding, going to their webpage and finding out if their beliefs align with mine, because I'm just not willing to have my voice recognized, and then another client, like you were mentioning, a longstanding client, maybe, I don't know, not align with that and then maybe have issues with me voicing for them in the future. But it's not even so much about that. It's become now about my performance too. I wanna make sure -- it's hard to create a believable performance when you don't align with the client that you are voicing for. And it doesn't have to be political. I think it could be anything. You know, now we've got, one of our next episodes probably gonna be all about AI, but with AI jobs, right? Are they gonna recognize my voice and then will there be, I don't know, judgment in one way or another, because that's also something that people have very strong feelings about. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, definitely not just political. Yeah. Just kind of, it definitely comes out in your performance. Like, yes, we can take on feelings and emotions and words that are not our own. I truly believe that when you're not enjoying the performance, when you really are not totally invested in it, it's gonna come through somehow, some way. And you know, the client may say there's something about it or it might just be a difficult session when they're really trying to pry it out of you. It's gonna come out in the wash and when it's not real. So yeah. I just prefer to say no. And I find that when I say no, the right things come along to replace it. So it's kind of having that, that kind of mindset, not having the scarcity mindset of, oh, I have to take the job 'cause it came. You know, having a more abundant mindset of I'll release this thing that isn't for me. So I can go to the right person and the right thing will come to me. So. Anne: Exactly. And you know, that applies in so many things if I can, the power of no. And especially when you're negotiating also, I think that, that makes a huge difference in terms of, I don't have to take this. If you have that thought process of, you know what, I don't have to take this job. And I have the confidence that if I say no to this job, that it will give me room for the next job to come along and fulfill my need for, I don't know, money to support my, whatever to support me in this career. So the power to say no is huge. And when you are negotiating that confidence that you have the power to say no, and that you are okay knowing that if you say no, everything's gonna be okay, and that something else will come along and fill its place. That is huge. And I think that a lot of people, when they first start out in the industry, it's a scary thing to negotiate a job. Because they're afraid that they're gonna lose the job if they quote too high. And so therefore they settle. I think you only have to have a few negative experiences when you settle, and then you get that client that doesn't align with what you want your business to be. And then they kind of nickel and dime you on every little thing that they want from you. And those are clients that when I get really, I only had a couple that really came back and nickel and dime me. And I was like, you know what? I did not quit my full-time cushy job to come to a job where I could be beat up by my client. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: This is why I got out of it. And so I wanna just tell any voice actor out there that is beginning, you do not need to suffer through a client that is abusing you, so to speak. Erikka: Oh my goodness. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Definitely talking about balancing yes and nos, that is such a great point on rates, because like you said, the ones that don't necessarily want to pay your price are the ones that are gonna have the most demands, want the most pickups or little changes or, well, could you, you know, say this one with a, like going up like they really like line reads you type things. And you know, things like that, but yeah. Not being afraid to fire clients. I think that that's so important. Anne: When they don't value you. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: It's all about the value. Right? You've gotta understand that what you do is of value. And we say this over and over and over again, but it's so interesting how it always comes back into play in these, the power of no, the moral, ethical compass that you have in working. It's not just, oh, do you take a political side? It's a moral compass when working with a client who may not treat you as if your services are valued. And that I think is huge. And like I said, I did not give up my cushy job you know, and thankfully I had a cushy job. I say thankfully and gratefully, but I did not give it up to go into business for myself to be handled by my clients in a way that is not aligning with what I want my business to be and someone that doesn't value me. And that is a huge, huge thing. And it's a huge thing when you talk about AI, right? And we think that the AI industry is out to get the voice talent and to take away their jobs and to devalue them. I personally, just through the VO BOSS podcast and all of my interviews, have been fighting to have AI companies value the artist and value the voice and value the asset of voice because they value other assets. Right? If you think about some of these big advertising companies, they value the product. Well, if the voice is representing the product, how can you not value that voice? How can you not treat that voice with the respect that you treat the product? Because it's a part of it. Erikka: Yeah. You're bringing a branding element that nobody else can bring. You have something, this voice, this tone, this way of delivery that they have chosen to represent their brand. That's the value and, and should be given the proper respect for that. And even to your prior point, I do still have my nice job But I think the thing is like, even at work, not to take it too far off topic, but just valuing yourself and whatever value you are bringing to the table in any business transaction, really in any transaction at all, any relationship. And if you command that respect for yourself and knowing that when you set those boundaries and say, you know, Nope, that's not for me or I'm not gonna allow you to treat me that way, you make space for the right things to come. So that comes with rates. That comes with the way clients treat you, that comes with the way your boss treat you. If you have a job and they're not treating you right, find something else. Anne: Absolutely. I love that you brought that up, especially in the corporate environment, because I know a lot of reason why people may be getting into the voiceover industry, right, is to escape the job where they don't feel valued. You know, I worked in the corporate world. Corporate is one of my specialty genres in coaching and in what I do in voiceover. And I always felt that corporate became the way that I was winning 'cause I would do corporate voiceover. And I thought, here's the way that I don't have to go in and be mistreated in a board meeting, right, by members of the company or, you know, not valued. Here, I can do the job, don't have to go to any meetings -- well, maybe a meeting with a person that's paying me, but basically I'm in, I'm out, and I got paid. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so therefore I win. I win at corporate. But I do happen to love corporate and I understand the corporate way. And in reality, as voice artists, we are hired pretty much by companies, whether they are companies that have a product or broadcasting companies, they're still companies. And again, you want to be valued by that company that you work for. And it's just something that resonates, whether you are in a company wanting to get out to form your own company, right, that you need to be valued. You need to be valued and you have the space to morally and ethically say no to create a good balance in your life for not just getting paid, what you're worth, but just having joy in what you're doing. Erikka: And you have to remember that like these businesses, they're not saying yes to every single partnership or every contract, and you as a voice talent -- I know that it's easy for creators and artists to kind of see us, ourselves as beneath or as you know, well, we're so grateful to get a job, but we are B to B businesses. So when we are working or deciding to choose to work with another company, that is a partnership. And you have to decide if that partnership is right for you, just like the big corporations do. You're no different. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's such a great point. Wow. So do you have any examples of jobs that you've said no to yourself? Erikka: Oh boy. I know. I do. Let's see. I've definitely said no for rates. And the couple times where I might have bent, I regretted it. Anne: Because then they would come back and want every little pickup. Erikka: Either they wanted more or it was just like, when I did it, it wasn't as fulfilling. And I was just kind of like dreading it. And then I send the invoice and I'm like, I can't believe I put myself through that for this. You know what I mean? So I kinda stopped bending. The times that I do kind of bend more on rates are like, if it's something I really wanna do. And I really believe in like PSAs or for non-profits and stuff like that. But yeah, I have, more times than I can count, you know, just said, hey, this is my rate. This is what it is. And if they say, you know, it's not gonna work for us. Great. Definitely say no a lot for usage, and that's something, you know, I'm open about the fact that I do participate on P2Ps. Just really Voice123 right now. But I'm very careful to make sure that anything that says in perpetuity, these contracts or these blatant boiler plate, things that they send out, I gotta make sure that I'm protected, that they're not gonna use it for broadcast use or try to use it in perpetuity without it being totally kind of safe from creating conflicts in the future. And I'll say no very quickly for those. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I wanna point out that a lot of times there's a panic, right, if I say, no, I won't get hired again. And I just wanna say like in life right, think about the products that you buy. You can choose to buy a product that's maybe cheaply made and that doesn't last as long, or it's not as good value, or you can buy the stuff that has served you well in the past, right? A trusted brand that lasts a long time or you can depend on it over and over again. And when it comes to that, you don't care what you pay for it for the most part. Right? And I think that even though we think voiceover might be going down the tubes because online casting came and, and now AI is coming and, and people think, well, it's just be devalued, and so what's gonna happen? Well, I think it it's human nature that there's always gonna be the division of, okay, so there's good value. Or maybe there's not so good value. And I don't think that's going to change whether pay to plays are in the picture or AI is in the picture, because people are always gonna want to buy the thing that gives them the best value. And that does not always equate to money. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: You'll always have buyers for the Dollar Store sort of, you know, genre. You'll always have buyers that are more in like the Target sort of realm and then you'll have your Neiman Marcus folks. Like it's always -- Anne: Right. Erikka: There are people that are, that are price driven and those that are quality driven, and there's just different types of buyers. And it's just which one do you align with. Anne: Right. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: And those buyers can change at any given moment. There may be times when I feel like I don't need top of the line, I don't know -- I always go to the girl thing -- I don't need top of the line lipstick now, but but I always need a good hairdresser. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I wanna be that voice of our artist where people say, well, all right, I can forego maybe this part of the project, but I cannot live without Anne Ganguzza for my voice. Erikka: There you go. Anne: But that's what you wanna try to manifest for your business. Right? They say, Erikka J, man, she is like no other. She delivers. I love her voice. I can't live without her. And that's the type of client that you want. And there's a lot of clients out there, guys. I don't think we need to be worried that you're not gonna be able to get a client that will support that value and support your business. And I think you just have to believe, and I know a lot of times it takes -- it took me years to kind of get that belief and that confidence. And it's funny because it's still evolving, and I've been in this for over 15 years now. Erikka: Yeah. It's like a muscle. You have to keep stretching it. Yeah. Anne: It is like a muscle. It keeps growing, and you just like every day you realize, wow, you know what? I'm gonna be okay. People are going to want to hire me, right, because I deliver value. And then even if there are other things like pay-to-plays have become, it's tough. It's a lot of competition. Well, maybe that's something that you evolve out of and you do something different. And again, you always have to have that balance of this is aligning with my business, morally, ethically. And what's my other word? Does it bring me joy? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: There is that balance that makes my business go around kind of thing. And makes me happy that I do what I do. And when it no longer makes me happy or no longer fulfills my quota of, I need to support myself, right? Well then maybe I evolve into something else and what's given me the strength to be okay with that is the fact that I have built my business up. And that I have succeeded. I always say this. If the voiceover industry were to fall out, I'd be okay. Because I have learned how to operate a business myself, and I know that I can evolve, and I will evolve because I've proven it to myself before. And I know that you BOSSes out there can do the same. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: I'm not anybody special. I think there's something to be said for longevity and in following your moral compass. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Right? And having that balance. Erikka: Yeah. And I think part of balancing those yeses and nos, we talked about the moral compass. We talked about financially making sure the rates are right, the usage, making sure it brings you joy. I think another part of that is do you have the time? Because you don't wanna jeopardize your relationship with a client by you keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes. And you start falling behind on deadlines or you're not delivering the quality that sets up to par because the hours in the day are finite. Right? Your energy is, is finite per day. So sometimes you might have to say no, simply because you don't have the bandwidth, and you have to be okay with that because it'll be worse for you to deliver a subpar product. Anne: Right. Right. Erikka: Because you didn't have the bandwidth to really do it. Yeah. Anne: And I think it works. I mean, if you want it to, I think it can work in your favor and especially, Erikka, for you, I think because you are juggling a full-time job, a voiceover career, I mean family, everything. And so the fact that you don't have the time makes it like a little easier to say no. And a lot of times when you say no, that makes people want you more. Erikka: Yes, I totally agree. Anne: Just sayin'. And that makes people value you more. And that actually can turn out to be a wonderful thing for your business. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Or like, for me, like I say no to longer form projects, because I know it's gonna be harder for me to fit that in. So it makes room for me to get more of the short term stuff. And like you said, it does kind of be like, oh, well you didn't have time for this, but I'd love you to do this. You know, like, could you do this one? Anne: Or even, I dunno, has it ever turned around, whether you've said, no, I, I don't have time for it. And they offer you more money? Erikka: They offer me more money or they offer me more time. They're like, well, if we wait until next week, could you do it? And I'd be like, well, yeah, actually I could Anne: Yeah, so in a sense, absolutely. I mean, it just works out, and I'm always saying being busy is a good thing as long as you're balanced and you're not going crazy. And like your health is at stake or something like that. But the being busy is good because then it's a great time, I always say, when you're that busy to raise your rates and see what happens and it's scary as hell, but when you raise your rates, and then you say, let me just see what happens, and people just, they take it. And you're like, damn. And it's so funny because to us, it's like this big, like, oh my God, I'm gonna raise my rates. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: And then the next thing you know, somebody's buying it and you're like, oh, well that was simple. Why didn't I do that before? Erikka: I am so glad you said that, Anne, because again, the laws of business, which we have to remember as BOSSes, that we are not just talking into a microphone, we're not just artists. We are entrepreneurs. We are businesses. What businesses do, the law of supply and demand. If the demand goes up, guess what, the price has to go up, because there's not as much supply to fulfill that. So yeah. Anne: That's right. It's a really wonderful thing. And I think there's too many people that let it get to them before they realize that, wow, this is how I can raise my -- this is how I can actually survive because there's not too many people that are just doing this as a hobby. I mean a lot of people, oh yeah. It's kind of fun. I'm dabbling in it. But in reality, the ones of us who are concerned about how do I market, how do I get the jobs? We want this to be a living. We wanna be able to do this and be successful at it so that we can support our families or whatever it is that we wanna do with that. And I think when it gets to that point, you've gotta figure out how you're gonna make that business work for you. And there are some scary, scary challenges. I'm -- like I say this all the time, you have to be scared of something every day, honestly. And I think that really is good for you to be a little bit scared. And I'm still scared when I raise my rates, and then I'm still like, oh, damn, that was easy. Somebody picked up on that. Erikka: Right. Right. Anne: It's like -- now I think you just have to be careful that you're within a market. Erikka: For sure. Anne: You don't wanna price yourself out of the market. And that is something that you have to, you know, understand. And I think that's something that, again, there's a balance of worth plus the market, because you can be a little more expensive than what typically is on the market. And that's where I kind of like to -- I don't wanna say I'm expensive, but I like to say they are my values. This is my price because I honestly, I don't have time to not have it be my price. Erikka: Amen. Yes, yes. And deliver the goods to match that price. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: You know, so that they are happy to pay that. Anne: Well, exactly. Happy and glad to pay it over and over and over again. And I don't feel guilty. Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? I don't ever feel guilty. Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? I don't know. Have you ever felt guilty when charging a client? Erikka: I, I might feel guilty when I first say it, but then like at the end of the job, I'm like, yeah, well that was worth that , you know, and they're happy. Anne: Yeah, if you work hard. Erikka: They didn't have to come back, you know, like they got what they needed quickly and yeah. Anne: Well, you know, that's so interesting that you say that too. I was on a live directed session the other day, and it boggles my mind, right, because I said, oh, do you wanna, you know, gimme some direction or you want me to just read it? And then you can gimme some comments later. They're like, yeah, let's do that. I delivered the read, and they're like, wow. That was perfect. And it's funny because that was quick. They're like, okay, no, that was perfect. We don't need anything else. Bam. I did it. They were like, wow, that's perfect. That was perfect. And they were so shocked and surprised and happy. And I was like, gosh, I wonder who they've been working with? Erikka: Really. Anne: Because for me it was just like, okay, let me just do this. And I was confident. I think confidence has -- we should have an entire episode on confidence. Erikka: Oh gosh, we should. Anne: You know, just because I was confident, there was no reason for me to be not confident. I do get nervous before a live session, but I'm confident in my abilities and to be able to deliver that, but they were so surprised and I was like, well, I'm so happy that I could deliver. And guess what? They hired me again. And so it just became like, it was quick, but it was worth it for them because it was quick. And I delivered what they needed quickly. Erikka: They're trading their money for you to make them spend less time. So the better that you can efficiently deliver with the read and what they're looking for, so that they're not spending hours directing you on a session, they're gonna appreciate that. And they're gonna happily pay you 'cause they can get more money. They, they don't have a lot of time. And yeah, I love what you said about, you know, it kind of just being ready, because if you get into that session and you're nervous -- I get nervous before live sessions still too. Anne: Yeah. I do. Erikka: One thing to kind help with that is I'm not afraid to like ask questions, especially if I have a client that maybe hasn't hired a lot of voice talent, so that I get clarity on the direction that they wanna go. You know, I'll do that at the top of the session. So then I'm more secure and more confident in what I'm delivering because it's not the guessing game and feeling it out in those first 15, 20 minutes. Right? And now I've just saved them 20 minutes because I took five minutes to ask questions, delivered the read in two, three takes -- Anne: Exactly. Erikka: -- we're done. Anne: Yeah. That's it, that's it, it's really delivering what they want. And that's the thing. 'Cause maybe, you know, you're confident in your performance, but you're not necessarily confident that you're gonna deliver what they want in their ears. So asking questions I think is, is super important. So guys, balance, I think balance in moral ethics, your value. I think that it is so important for a happy, successful career in voiceover. And I think that compromising -- look, I think anybody that gets into this industry, I think if they're coming out of the corporate world, which I have a lot of people, you know, trying to come out of the corporate world to do it full time, and I'm always like, well wait, just a moment before you do that. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Right? And I think that, that is also another worthy topic for the podcast is, you know, your full-time job plus voiceover, how do you make it work? Which -- Erikka: And balance, and a balanced approach to the exit strategy. Anne: Yep, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But I think morally, ethically and worth-wise, you have to have a great balance and a great sense of who you are and your worth and to make things successful. And I believe in all of you, BOSSes out there, that it can be done. I mean, if I could do it, like like I've learned a lot over my 15 years, and, and that is a big part of what I've learned and a big part of what helped me become successful. And Erikka, I'm sure you see that every day. Erikka: Every day, balancing the yeses and the nos, balancing what I'm gonna do and not do. And yeah, for sure, eevery day. Anne: All right. Well, BOSSes, I'd like to give a big thank you to our sponsor 100voiceswhocare.org. This is your chance to make a difference using your voice and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also our sponsor ipDTL. We love ipDTL. It helps me to connect with BOSSes like Erikka here and all of you out there. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing wake and we will see you next week. Erikka: Bye! Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What do Google, P2Ps, and Instagram all have in common? They are search engines! This week, Anne & Erikka talk tech. More specifically, SEO and how you can use keywords to improve your searchability & business. Our websites and online profiles are our digital storefronts. The words we put on them are the secret to getting found by clients, so specificity and consistency are essential. Listen up Bosses, we've got tips & tricks just for you! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here back with special guest co-host Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey Anne, how are you today? Anne: I'm doing good. What's going on with you? Erikka: Oh, nothing, man. Just happy to be back and happy to have -- actually, I just had a job that walked in on my website, and I was so excited because I love getting those. Anne: Ah, oh my God. I love that. You said that because walking in on your website, that's the best kind of job to get because you don't have to do all the work of auditioning. They've already come to your website. They've heard your demos. And they've liked what they've heard, and then they contact you and say how much? Erikka: Yeah. They just walk in and wanna hand you money for you doing the talking. So I love that. Anne: I love that. That is such an efficient way to work. Not that -- look, I'm not gonna blast anybody who auditions. I mean, I audition. I audition for my agents every day and thankfully I'm busy because I do a lot of things in my business that I don't really have a ton of time to audition outside of, for my agents. And so when it comes in on my website or however they find me online, I absolutely love the inquiry because they don't necessarily need an audition. They're just saying here's my job. How much will it cost? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, talking about balance, yeah sure, we do auditions every day. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And that's a great way to land work. And a lot of the work that we get from our agents where we have to audition are those big, you know, really great jobs, but having a balanced approach to your business and having a diverse set of leads that come in, having that walk-in money where you don't really have to do that audition work. And it's just like, hey, we want you to do this job. We saw your website and love your work. And when can we schedule a session and how much? Like, that's great. It's a good balance. Anne: Love it, love it. And so I think so important to talk about is SEO, because that plays a large part in how people find you online, a large part in how people find me and my website, and then pretty much say, hey, I like your voice. How much will it cost? So let's talk a little bit about SEO, search engine optimization. I know a lot of people like get discombobulated when we start talking about technological things like that and SEO. And disclaimer here, I am not an SEO expert, but I have definitely employed certain things on my website that have allowed me to be found easier. And it has really contributed greatly to those people that walk in and ask for work from me, which I think is amazing. Erikka, what about your experiences? Erikka: Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, when it gets a little intimidating, you just think about SEO, as Anne said, stands for search engine optimization. What is Google? A search engine. What are all these social media sites essentially? A search engine. Even the P2Ps, a search engine, they're looking for things. So all you're doing is optimizing your website so that you are found more easily on that search engine when they're searching for things that are relevant to your website. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Or your online presence. I know. I -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- I bring it back to the website because I think the website is the core of who our businesses are. And the core website will allow anyone to come find me, listen to my demos and then pay me money. So it's like a full cycle. That's my online storefront. And so let's talk about how we can optimize our online presence for good SEO, Erikka. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: What's the first thing? Erikka: I think for me, I saw the jump when I went into -- 'cause currently my site is based on SquareSpace. I'm in the process of moving over to WordPress. But there is, if you dig into those sites, there are sections that are specifically for SEO. And if you go in there and you start putting in, I use keywords that I know when someone who is looking for me or my type of sound or what I bring to the table as a voice talent, I'm putting those keywords in my SEO box so that when they're searching for Black female voice talent, or authoritative, or sounds like Viola Davis or whatever, I'm coming up in those options. So I think that's number one is making sure that you have the right copy on your website and the right terms that are specifically driving SEO on your website listed there. Anne: Let's talk a little bit more about keywords because I think keywords are what, you know, people are like, well, what keywords should I use? And I think keywords are very specific to everybody, every person. And I think everybody wants to be found for the keyword voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: You know? Erikka: Everybody, Anne: Everybody. And here's the deal. The sites that have a lot of people that have voiceover in their profile, that word, are going to be the ones that get found first because there's many occurrences. So keywords are, basically in Google, if you rank highly for a particular keyword, you will show up on the first page, which is desirable to show up on the first page. 'Cause many people, when they search myself included, I don't always go to the second or third pages. However, I will say, Erikka, I don't know if you've noticed recently, there's been an awful lot of ads on the first page of Google lately. Erikka: There have. Anne: A lot. Erikka: Definitely. And not just Google, but like, you know, I went to like search for a restaurant on like Yelp or something, and it was like, it wasn't necessarily the best, but it was ranked first because it was sponsored, and you have to look for that word, and it's like, oh wait. . So yeah, lots of ads. Anne: And so I think that by the way, Erikka, this is probably another podcast episode, but thinking about marketing and ads, adding ads into your daily practice could be something that would be worthwhile. And again, that's another investment, but I say that just because I'm noticing the increase on the first page of Google of ads showing up. And so you wanna make sure that the keyword that people search for will show up your entry on the first page, if possible, because not many people click to the second or third pages. However, I will say because of the amount of ads I have been going to the second page more often now. Erikka: Yeah. I've seen that. Anne: But what makes a good keyword? So of course you can put voiceover in your body of text that you put on your website or on your profile. But I also think you definitely need to target it more specifically to what you want to be found for. So for example, if somebody typed in voiceover coach or commercial voiceover coach, and I'd have to keep checking right now, but I have certain words that I wanna be found for. But if somebody types in commercial VO coach, that's a different set of words than commercial voiceover coach. So keep that in mind because people say, well, I didn't find you when I searched for you under commercial VO coach. And I'm like, well, that doesn't necessarily mean that you won't find me under commercial voiceover coach. So I think a lot of times in order to get yourself found on that first page, try to think specifically and narrow down that focus on your target. So for example, if I say "commercial voiceover Orange County," I will show up on the first page exactly. Or "narration voiceover coach Orange County," that kind of thing. And if I don't, by the time this airs , I will, I will be working to make sure that that happens because I have a certain set of words that I wanna be found for. Now, it would be great if I could be found for voiceover coach, that in general, but there's a lot of voiceover coaches out there that use that as well as their a search term. So it really behooves you to think about what it is that you wanna be found for. Erikka: Absolutely being specific is so key 'cause like you said, everyone is gonna have voiceover and not just that, but the first page, if you just have voiceover or even VO or just those sort of generic terms, you're gonna get eaten up by the sites that are corporations that have thousands of dollars into voiceover, some of the P2Ps. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: You know what I mean? So you're gonna get pushed down and, and maybe not even be in the first three pages. You'll get found for what you wanna get found for, for what really your niche is because we all have different areas of expertise. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Not just in genre, but in like how our voice sounds like, how do you describe your voice?What adjectives do you use? What celebrity references would you compare your voice to? Anne: I think celebrity references are great too. Erikka: Oh yeah. Yeah. Anne: So many people forget about that, their soundalike, and that really helps. And I think you should absolutely put that on your website. Because that will help target the search even more. Yeah. Erikka: Alt text in photos is another good thing to have just to get your site higher ranked in general. The better that Google likes your website, doing things like to make it clean and having the hierarchy right so you get site mapped, and that's where like if you search for a website and you'll see where it says, like if you search for Erikka J, you'll see like about and voiceover and music, like you'll see the different subpages on the Google initial search, that means you've been site mapped. So Google kind of ranks you higher just for that reason alone. So a lot of different things to consider. Anne: Well, I think that that's wonderful. I think, so number one is knowing that. The way search engine optimization works is, or the way search engines work is they pretty much keyword or they index your website with all the words on it. And so when somebody says to you, oh, I think that your website is too busy or it's too wordy. I always say, mm, think again. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: I mean, if you ever look at my website, I've got words everywhere. And so the reason for that is for SEO purposes. I want to be able to be found. And so these people they're like, I really want clean voiceover webpages that, you know, you can get to the demos right away, which I agree with, but I'll tell you what. Clean doesn't necessarily mean that you're not being verbose about who you are and what kind of a business you are. Because when I search for, let's say, I wanna find a particular product, like I'm trying to find green chickpeas. I just say that -- Erikka: That's pretty particular. Anne: It's particular, and it's very difficult to find green chickpeas, but when I type that in the websites that come back, I wanna be able to click on them and immediately purchase. And so when somebody types in those keywords for you, commercial voiceover or explainer narrator, whatever that is, you wanna show up on that first page. And then when they click on you, you want that page to be accessible and easy to buy. Erikka: Yes. Yes. Anne: Easy to buy and look professional. So I think in terms of the SEO, the search engine optimization being optimized for your site, I think it helps to have more words that accurately describe who your business is and what words you wanna be found as. So you must include those. And you mentioned the alt text, which is great. And somebody who doesn't necessarily design websites may not know what that is. But that is text that you put around an image in the code of the HTML of the website, which you can do if you understand a little bit about WordPress or whatever your website has been developed in. My websites are all in Wix now. I was using WordPress and then my websites became very complex in terms of eCommerce happening. I have a CRM embedded. I have email that I'm sending from these websites. So Wix kind of worked out for me for that because it had all of those embedded into the website, those capabilities. And with that, any web provider, if it's Wix, if it's WordPress, you know, hosted on a GoDaddy website, whatever it is, they're going to have some sort of provision for SEO where you can insert keywords. That is very, very helpful, not only having the words on your website, and I think also dividing your website into different sections. So like I have a commercial voiceover landing page. I have a corporate narration landing page. I have an explainer landing page, a telephony landing page. And so that just makes it even easier to find, because again, I can put more of those words on my website by having specific landing pages Erikka: And it's more targeted. So I mean, you know, obviously we're talking about having the right copy and having, you know, these SEO terms. You don't wanna word vomit, right, and just have like all the words that you think are gonna get you found. It still has to be cohesive and make sense. And it has to be true. Nothing's worse -- I don't know about you guys, but if I'm searching for like great Mexican food near me and I get something that's totally unrelated, that's annoying, and it pisses your buyer off. So make sure it's still relevant. So definitely getting those pages that are relevant to the topic can target who you're trying to talk to with that demographic. And I believe it may have changed 'cause I know Google was more so understood words and they're starting to have more like a computer vision where they can understand images more. But I think having at least 500 words was the cutoff last I heard from someone that worked at Google per page to get it kind of recognized and rank. Anne: Yeah. I think they're starting to recognize words within photos as well. Erikka: They are. Yep. Yep. Anne: I absolutely think that having, first of all, more words and targeted words that make sense -- by the way, you'll get penalized, if you just do what they call keyword stuffing. So you can't just throw in the words. And as a matter of fact, if you throw in more words like voiceover talent or voiceover or VO and you put too many of them in your pages and they don't make sense, you'll get penalized and you certainly don't want that to happen. And by the way, I always tell people that SEO is one of those things. Now we talk about Google, right, because that's my search engine. I don't really go to any other search engine. Do you, Erikka? Erikka: I don't. Anne: Yeah. So in reality there are other search engines, but I really don't use any. It's always Google, and nobody knows really Google's algorithm unless you work for Google. And that is a proprietary thing. And I remember SEO people would study that and there are different versions of the Google algorithm that come out and they name them. And so every time Google would come out with a new algorithm, they'd say, well -- and I think one of 'em was called like the penguin. I can't remember, but everybody would come out and say, okay, since Google's new algorithm, here's what you need to do to get good SEO. And so I'm just gonna say, if you don't work for Google, you don't know you don't. You just don't. So if you have somebody that comes to you and says, I can make you show up on the front page, I want you to probably just run far away. Because I just have never really believed people 'cause that used to be a real business. People would just be, they were SEO people and we can get you on the front page and you pay us all this money. And in reality they would keyword stuff. And that was back in the day. And I still have people who email me and spam me about SEO and getting myself on the front page. So beware -- Erikka: Me too. Anne: -- that, unless they work for Google, they don't really know. And I'm all about, and I think Erikka, you too, I'm all about organic SEO, and organic is absolutely let's write the verbiage. Let's use the words on our website and in our profiles that accurately describes who we are, what we do and what we would like to be found for and not keyword stuff. And that's worked wonders for me in the past years because as I mentioned before, I have a lot of different divisions of my business that I work at. And I don't have time to audition all the time. So for me getting work that finds me or getting clients that find me first, then they have the opportunity to listen to the demos on my site. And if my demos are targeted to the specific genre, and they nail the sound that the client is looking for, boom, I've just taken care of half of the work in terms of getting that lead and then solidifying it so that I can get paid. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. You don't want someone to find you and then they find that you weren't the right match. You don't want to attract the wrong client and ends up wasting your time. So the more targeted and sort of more strategic that you are with those keywords to make the right match happen automated, take that manual workout for yourself, it's a win for both sides. So absolutely. Anne: I like how you said you don't wanna attract the wrong client. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And interestingly enough, I always hear about people talking about being low balled in a lot of the Facebook groups and they'll be like, oh, you know, they only offered me this or this is what they're offering. And I'm like, interestingly enough, I never quite meet clients like that. And I'm going to very humbly attribute it to a great web designer, my great web designer who shall remain nameless because they can't take on anymore clients and a great writer for the verbiage of which I worked many, many years myself on on trying to hone that and really working with someone to figure out who am I? Who do I want to be? How do I wanna be found online? And really working, not just a day on that. It has evolved over years of writing, rewriting and a lot of work. And it has been, I think one of the most successful things that I've ever done for my business that has garnered me, I'm gonna say, three quarters of my income was a great website with great verbiage that says exactly who I am, targets who I want to find me, and just gets me work without me having to go and cold call people or email people or whatever it is, just being found. And it's not just the website, but it's a website in combination with social media profiles. And also not just the words on the website, but I know we're specifically talking SEO, but the words in combination with the actual website that looks professional enough so that people, when they see it, they trust it, and they're willing to click and buy so to speak. Erikka: Yeah. One of the best compliments I got was somebody told me, oh, your website looks expensive. And I was like -- Anne: Yeah, right? Erikka: -- perfect! because I want clients that, that know they're not going to get a $50 voiceover from me. Anne: And that's it. And then I guess that was the long story of me getting back to your point about you don't wanna attract the wrong client. If somebody comes to me, they're not gonna offer me $.08 a word. You know what I mean? For e-learning. I'm not even attracting that type of client. I'm attracting the type of client that is going to be willing to pay. And funny enough, I was like, and now of course I'm gonna have another one of those moments, but I said something to my husband, I said yesterday, I don't even care what it costs, but I am hunting for this product because I want it to be the right product. And I want it to be quality product, and I'm willing to pay for it. And that I think is something so important for us as business owners and entrepreneurs that we understand that. I shop online all the time. I love online shopping. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread personally. Erikka: Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, think about how it is when, when you guys are shopping, when -- there are times when you're more budget driven, when you're like, all right, what can I get what I need for the lowest price? And there are times like you just said, Anne, you know, when you're like, look, I don't care what it costs, but I need a certain level of quality. Anne: Yeah. I need this. I'm just gonna particular brand or yep. Erikka: Yep. And that's what you want your brand, your website, your digital storefront to say about you. Anne: Yep. You wanna be the Kleenex. Erikka: Yes. There you go. The Puffs Plus with lotion Anne: I need the Anne Ganguzza of voiceover. And also I wanna just mention that everybody should always have their name associated with their business, AnneGanguzza.com. And I tell people, I want you to be the Kleenex of voiceover. I need that Anne Ganguzza. Oh, I'm sorry. I need an Anne Ganguzza, you know, that kind of thing. I need an Erikka J . Really, that is important. And there's so many people that come up with these clever little names for their URLs and I'm like, well, that's great, but also have your name. Right? Erikka: Well, use them and, and I guess this is sort of a little, it's still kind of related to SEO in a way, but you can do that and use redirects. That's one thing I do a lot because people frequently forget that I have two K's in my name or where they wanna put two RS or whatever. So I have had other things like EJ Voiceover that are easier to find, but it still redirects you to ErikkaJ.com. Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: So you can still do those little clever names that get people's attention and have it tell them what your name is when they get there. Anne: Unless you have somebody else out there with another name that might be, I don't know, somebody undesirable that you may not wanna be found for. Then I say, add the word, voice or voiceover afterwards, you know, Anne Ganguzza Voiceover. Everybody's like, well, Anne Ganguzza, isn't that difficult to spell? I'm like, well, I'm a Kleenex. So -- Erikka: Teach them. Anne: And like, Erikka J, I will tell you, Erikka, I learned right away because you're somebody I wanted to know. I knew I wanted to be in contact. I immediately remembered the two Ks and not two RS. Erikka: Aww. Thank you. Anne: But it's true. Right? So I just now know -- Erikka: It's true. Anne: And I think that any client, right, that wants you, they learn it and that's it. And you stay in their brains and that is what makes you unique. And I love your last name. It's so like Ganguzza... Anne: Thank you. It is a cool name. Isn't it? It's one of the reasons why I took it Erikka: Right, right, right, right, right. You're like, honey, this is a business decision. Anne: Well, it kind of was. My name before was Lucy, and that was also a cool name. So I just thought Anne Ganguzza was a cool sounding name, but Anne Lucy was always also really a cool name 'cause people sometimes would call me Lucy instead of Anne. But when I first started, I picked a URL and I said, Annespeaks.com. And I thought it was so clever. And the funny thing is, is that nobody searched for Anne -- like, what is an Anne speaks? Is that like a noun? What is that? I mean, you would like it to be, but in the beginning it did not serve me well, even though I thought I was so clever. Erikka: That's memorable, you know? Yeah. But like Anne Ganguzza, how can you forget that? Anne: That's right. And if you want Anne Ganguzza, you'll know how to spell that name. Erikka: That's right. That's right. Anne: That's the point. You'll find it. That's the point. So don't worry BOSSes out there. If you have a name that's difficult to spell, I always say, get that name and then get redirects. Like things that are easier, like your first name voiceover.com or whatever. But that again is part of the SEO as well. Not just the words that you have on your website, but also in your URL. Erikka: Yes. Anne: So if they are words that people typically search for that you wanna be found, you can also include those in your URL. And it's not expensive these days -- Erikka: Not at all, not at all. Anne: -- to get additional URLs, to buy additional domain names. And then let's see, I have about 11 websites, Erikka. How many do you have? Erikka: Oh man. Err... More than 10. Anne: There you go. There you go. So the thing is, is I think for people who have been in the business and have a little bit of at least knowledge about SEO and understand the, the advantages and the benefits, you can create what you mentioned before, those redirects, that go to your website. So I also happen to have the eLearningvoice.com, medical-narration.com, phone-voice.com and all of these other genre based website domains. And they have, again, more words on the page that discuss who I am. Right? What my business does, my voiceover for explainers or voiceovers for telephony, voiceovers for -- and that also contributes to my overall SEO in the world of online searching. And so I pay for those websites. I pay for the maintenance of those websites. And so it is an investment, guys. But I, I think if anybody has a problem finding me online, they maybe don't know how to type it properly because -- Erikka: Well, I mean, that's what it's all about is being easy to be found. So what can you do to make it easy for people to find you? Because the internet is vast . I mean, it is so big So what are you gonna do to help people filter through the noise to find you? Anne: Google yourself. Erikka: Oh my goodness, yes. In an incognito window, which means that it's not looking at your cookies or anything like that or any, it's not seeing it through the lens of anything else you've searched. If you use Chrome or whatever browser, but you should see like in, I know in Chrome, in the upper right corner, there's like three dots. And if you click that, it'll say new incognito window and it'll be like dark. That means that you're in like, almost like a brand new browser and -- Anne: it's a dark window. Erikka: -- if you Google -- it's the dark web. Anne: You Google yourself in the dark window, on the dark web. Erikka: Google yourself. And then you will see how you are coming up from the dark web. No. Anne: But that's so important. Erikka: Seriously. Yeah. It's is. It is. Anne: That is so important. Erikka: You'll be shocked. Anne: And I say, Google yourself regularly, because you don't wanna be found for things that maybe you don't wanna be found for. Erikka: Right. Or old things, you know, like -- Anne: Exactly. I love that. You said old things because that's so important that we make sure that you clean up, make sure you clean up online. If you can. It's really difficult sometimes to completely clean up things that have been said. And that again, could be another podcast episode. If you've said things online, your social posts show up online as well. Erikka: Yes, they do. Anne: They do.   Erikka: I've definitely seen Twitter posts come up in a Google search for me. And I was like, oh, okay. Anne: So if you searched your name, right, Anne Ganguzza, I think the first thing, if it's properly done, that should come up is your website. Erikka: Should be, yes. Anne: Right? Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And if you have multiple pages on your website, which I think is a good thing, and Erikka, I believe that you agreed with me, you'll see like you're about section, you'll see whatever that might be about, demos, those types of things, whatever sections, they should also show up. And then I think the next thing might be either YouTube or LinkedIn or whatever your social media social profiles are. I think YouTube possibly is the next one that come up. Erikka: It depends on the one you're most active in, honestly. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: If you're not super active on YouTube, like me, like I haven't posted anything with there in a while, bad Erikka but yeah. Anne: Yeah. So the next thing for me is YouTube. 'Cause I've been doing a little blurb on YouTube trying to yeah -- and again, that's another thing that I've been doing to try to increase my SEO is I've been putting out weekly videos. And so not only for VO BOSS, do I put out weekly videos, but for Anne Ganguzza I do. So for each brand I'm putting out well VO Peeps, I mean I'm only one person, but as most people know, I have a team of people that help me. I have been putting my own videos out on Anne Ganguzza to try to increase the Anne Ganguzza brand and VO BOSS, we do all of our episodes weekly. We put that on YouTube as well, just to contribute to the SEO. And as a matter of fact, we also transcribe our episodes as well to help any possible type of SEO. So if you were to search or if you listen to any of the episodes on, let's say Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you'll see that the transcripts are there as well. Erikka: Yeah. And I think, I think LinkedIn is another one that comes up heavy for me because it is one of the largest -- Anne: Yes, me too. Erikka: -- social media platforms in the world. And a lot of people sleep on LinkedIn. I know in our community we talk about it more, but seriously it's like, 'cause you know, it's like it's Facebook in a suit. You know, people say that, but -- Anne: It is Facebook in a suit. Erikka: But just about everybody's there. So -- Anne: Everybody's on it. Yes, absolutely. And you're right. And now there's the feed. And so I'm posting daily to that, and I'm trying to post content that matters. So another thing that can help you with SEO is to publish content and update it regularly or new content. And so I also blog on a weekly basis, and one of my blogs every week is my video that I've put on YouTube, which I've then transcribed, which then becomes a blog of mine. And then I also write a blog every other week. So that again are words that come back to my website so that again, people can find me easily. Erikka: Yeah. Another thing I did fairly recently, which I probably need to do some maintenance work on, but I'd created a business on Google business. Anne: Oh yes. Good idea. Erikka: Which is easy to do. And then that way you could actually get people to write reviews for you too. So yeah. You can come up there and show up as a business. So. Anne: That's the other thing, when you do a Google search on yourself, that should show up. That and Yelp always showed up pretty high up. But I think lately they've not been coming up as high up in the search. Erikka: I haven't seen Yelp as high lately, but -- Anne: Yeah. You know, well, there's so many issues with Yelp, I think with people sabotaging other businesses by writing bad reviews and that sort of thing, which was a real thing. Erikka: Yeah. I mean, SEO's kind of like credit scores, right? Like you said, the algorithm changes all the time. You get the most information that you can to try to optimize, but you're not gonna master it because it's proprietary to those companies, and they put a lot of money into keeping them very secret and specialized. Just do the best you can. Anne: So consider, you know, I'm thinking for the future, it's gonna be something I've been looking at too. I mean, if you're not advertising already, think about that. Because it's becoming more and more prevalent out there, but for sure, understand who you are, define who you are as a business, figure out what keywords you want to be found for, make sure that they appear in your websites, make sure they appear in your social media profiles and try to just Google yourself every week or so. And longevity by the way, has something to do with it. So make sure that you are Googling yourself every week, every other week, and you too can win at the SEO game, and it's not that complicated. Erikka: It's not. And bringing it back to our balance theme, you know, it's like we do things actively to get these leads and to get these jobs every day, like auditions or you know, some people on P2Ps or doing your direct marketing. SEO is something that you can do passively so that work just walks in the door. Anne: There you go. I love it. Wow. I could talk another half an hour on this at least. Erikka: I could. I think we both talk a lot, Anne because we get paid for it. Anne: Ah, there we go. Yeah. Well BOSSes, you can use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You can absolutely make a difference for a small, quarterly contribution. And a great big shout-out to our sponsor. ipDTL. You too can network and communicate like BOSSes like Erikka J and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

How do you plan to avoid risk? BOSSES, we're here to help! In this episode, Anne & Erikka dive into the essential planning every entrepreneur should be doing for balance in their business & life. From setting up your 401k to planning for retirement, they bring it all back to how balance is managing and planning for what the future holds. Set up your will, find a good life insurance plan, and know that your future self will be thanking you for all the hard work. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am back with my brand new series, Balance, with our special guest. Co-host Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey Anne. Hey BOSSes. Anne: How are you? Erikka: I'm pretty good. How about you? Anne: Thankfully? I am good today. Not that I was really bad any other day, but I've had a few doctor's appointments recently. It got me to thinking, because I still visit my oncologist every few months and I had had some troubling blood results, which are fine, everybody. It's fine. And I'm very thankful about that, but it made me think about what if, God forbid, something should happen to me, and I was unable to work at my full time voiceover career for a certain amount of time or what if I was out for a couple months if I had to have surgery or, or whatnot? And I thought it would be a really good discussion to have. It may not be the most happy pleasant discussion to have, but I think it's an important one to have for BOSSes that run their own business. Erikka: Absolutely. I'm a big proponent of balance in looking at it's easy to think about the present and all the things that you have to do to presently run your business. But to take a balanced approach is also to think about planning for the future. So -- Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Erikka: -- things happen that we don't like, you know, either we get sick or no one wants to say it, but one day we're gonna die, all of us. We have that in common and hopefully one thing happy to talk about is one day we'll all retire and just be able to do the things that we love, even though we love this work. But you know, maybe just being able to go to the beach and make that be your job, you know, so planning for retirement. Anne: Yeah. Such great points. And you know, I've made it fairly clear to many people that know me, that I am planning for retirement. And I don't wanna have to be burdened with, oh my gosh, where's my money coming from? I wanna be able to enjoy my retirement. So let's talk about the things that maybe when you are a creative entrepreneur, we don't necessarily invest in that help us to plan for the future. I mean, number one, health insurance, of course. And I'll tell you, my story is, well, my husband works. And so I'm taking advantage of that. And I take advantage of his healthcare plan, which thankfully has been a good one. And we make sure that we get the best that we can get just simply because I have had health challenges in the past. And it really is a lifesaver when it comes to money in terms of whatever we have to pay out when I go to see the doctor, right. It's kind of crazy. So I think health insurance is super important. And I know if you are union and you are in a certain level of earnings, you can take advantage of the healthcare that they offer. Erikka: Yeah. Actually, everybody knows that currently I'm still have a full-time job. So I'm somewhat in the same position as you, Anne, in that I still have corporate insurance, but I am about, I think like $50 away from qualifying for SAG insurance. Anne: It's there you go. Erikka: It's like $49 and change. It's pretty funny actually. but that's definitely something I'm looking at, even as if it's a possibility to have a secondary. Anne: Well, that's what I was just gonna ask you. Like that's not something that you would replace your current corporate health insurance. Erikka: No, no. No, not for now. I mean, obviously the whole corporate job, that's where I'm at today. Will I still be doing that 10 years from now, doing both? I doubt it. So kind of just having that plan for the future and making sure that me and my family have health insurance. Anne: And it's not a guarantee anymore that when you go to work for a company that you're going to get health insurance these days. There has been a pandemic. And I think that there's probably no more important time to maybe think about health insurance as when there's a pandemic happening. And you wanna make sure that you keep yourselves healthy and can pay for any care that you might need. And especially now let's say you get long-term COVID and that affects you. You were a full-time voice talent. Even if you weren't a full-time voice talent, if you're part-time and you can't voice, what are you going to do? So what about health insurance that could be a secondary health insurance? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's a great segue to number two is disability insurance. That's something that a lot of corporations offer as well, but if you're not working for a corporation or maybe it's just not as affordable, there are independent disability policies out there. And I do have one, even though I have the corporate job to supplement. So if you can't voice for a few weeks, you can still get some income. Anne: Right. That's actually so smart of you. So what made you make that decision to purchase independent insurance? Erikka: Yeah, I think it was probably -- God. How long ago? At least maybe like seven or eight years ago, I started talking to a financial planner, and we started talking about life insurance and sort of disability insurance comes up in that conversation because it's all about wealth protection. Right? So even though it's making you great money, it's like, again, something happens to you, and that is gone or a lot of corporations with the long term disability, it cuts you down to like 60%. My father had a really bad accident that almost killed him four years ago. And his disability insurance, you know, like, I think like the first week or two was like short term and it's 100%, but then it went down to 60%. He had a mortgage, you know, a dog, like, you know, you don't plan for these kind of things to happen. So you have to have that contingency plan in place. So it really just made me think I had two kids. I was a single mom at the time. And it was like, you know, if something happens, I gotta make sure that we're okay. And I am risk averse. Like the definition, look at dictionary, Erikka J's picture is there. So So I like to have a plan and plan ABC. So I needed to have life insurance and disability. Anne: And you know, what's so interesting. Even health insurance, I'm just gonna backtrack. Just a touch, because it's not a secret. I had some expensive surgery, not so long ago. And in a year, if you have a decent insurance plan, a lot of times they'll say, well, we'll cover you up to... And then after so much money that you put into it out of pocket, we cover 100%. Well, what happens is when you reach that number where you shouldn't typically have to pay anymore out of pocket, guess what? They start determining the procedures that are actually qualify for that. I've got, see, I got so upset about it. I was, I couldn't even get it out. So yeah, some procedures and some portions of your doctor visits or, or procedures, they are not covered under that. I was like, well, look, at least I made my goal. So now I shouldn't have to pay anything else for my next, you know, set of tests that come back. No, come to find out that a lot of that stuff, some of it isn't covered under the policy and the plan. And so you really have to read those plans carefully and the fine print, 'cause a lot of times they make it sound a whole lot better than it might be. Erikka: And I'll backtrack with you, Anne, I'll run back to where you are. Not all health insurance plans are equal, right? So even the ones that are offered by corporations or by, you know, whatever, you know, full-time job you might have or part-time, it might be that if you qualify for SAG insurance, it might be that that plan is better. You have to look at the deductible, you have to look at what is and is not covered at what percentage who's in network that's close to where you are. You know, so just having a plan and not just kind of taking what's thrown at you and looking at your options is super important for health insurance and dental, dental. Oh my goodness, dental. We talk, please take care of your mouth. Anne: Is there any dental plan that covers more than a $1000 worth of work. That's what I wanna know. Erikka: Yeah. I don't think so. Anne: Because I think everybody has the same plan, and it covers up to $1000, and yet some of those dental procedures are way more than that. Especially I know I went through implant surgery a couple years back, and I had to strategically time it so that I got maximum amount of coverage one year, and then I could get the rest of it the following year. And so -- Erikka: We did the same. Anne: -- thankfully I could schedule things a little bit apart so that I could strategically get more money. And that's so important for us, right? I mean, in the middle of those surgeries, you know, my voice changed because I didn't have teeth maybe, or I had teeth or I was having a problem with my teeth, and I was in pain. So that's definitely something to think about. Now, most people, and I'm gonna come back to the short term disability, most people don't even think about short-term disability these days because it's just one of those kind of, I don't know, rare things. But the problem with thinking about it in that way is that it only takes one thing to happen where you will need short term disability or in long term disability. And that's when it becomes uber important that you have protected yourself. Erikka: Absolutely. And that's the balanced mindset, right? Is like none of us want to think about being hurt or not being able to do something for ourselves or being, you know, in a bad space. But the reality is that it is possible. A few years ago I was thinking that I was still a little younger than I was and jumping on a trampoline with my kids and rolled my ankle pretty bad before at a gig when I was doing stage performances. So when I was jumping on the trampoline, it really made it bad. And I had a high ankle sprain and I was in a boot for like six weeks. So thank God. I mean actually it's voice over, you know, that doesn't really affect us too much, but there may be some things that happen where you could be taken outta the game for six weeks or so. Anne: You know, you could be in pain and just that simple fact, right, it affects because what we do is with our bodies and you know, not just our mouths, right? But our bodies and if our bodies are affected, it affects our mouths. It affects our performance. It affects our mental health. I will say, thank goodness that we do, at least when I went through my surgeries, I was back in the studio after two weeks, thankfully. But I also couldn't be in the booth for too long. Otherwise I got tired. I was still recovering. And so thankfully during that time, you know, my husband had a job, but if this were what was supplying the family with financial aid, it would really be something that I would've thought about. Erikka: Yeah. And this is something I'll have to dig more into. So nobody take my word for this. I'm just kind of expressing a thought here. I do think that there are some plans that allow for like partial disability, because like you mentioned, like, you know, right now, like let's say you were back in the booth, but you weren't able to work at full capacity, and you can prove that your income has been affected by that dramatically. I do think that there are some policies that can help you with that too, because you can show that your income has been reduced by a medical condition. That's partially disabled. So just even thinking like that, that there's a variety of scenarios that can happen that none of us want to happen, but planning for the future is important so that you don't put yourself in a bad spot. Anne: And I don't care how old you are. actually the younger you are, the younger you are, I'm gonna say it's highly recommended to think about these things when you're young. Because let's say retirement, right, if you start putting away for retirement or you have a company that is -- do companies match? Erikka: A lot of them do. Anne: Do companies match anymore? Okay. That's good. Erikka: Yeah, mine does. And it's fantastic. Anne: Yeah. That was a big benefit, right, that your companies would match what you put into your retirement that was like, ooh, I have great benefits. And it's really all about that. And I, I have a feeling though that these benefits are slipping away from companies, but they're still very, very important. And I know back when I did work, I have a pension thankfully, which will be coming to me. And so does my husband. So we have that that we're accounting on, but we've also got other plans as well that we've invested in. Mutual funds and whatever it is. What about any other types of investments that you can recommend? Erikka: Yeah. So number three, retirement. Definitely. If you are at a job, please, please, please, please, please get a 401k and do your matching. There are a lot of, I've read quite a few books on this subject that a lot of advice that say that don't go over whatever they're matching. And I could definitely see for me, that's what I do is just up to the match. So like my company matches 6% of my income, so I contribute 6%, and anything else that I can do I put in other places, 'cause you don't wanna have all your eggs in one basket. Anne: Yes. Is that why the recommendation says not to go more than that and to put it elsewhere? Erikka: Because the thing is that when you come of age and you take that money out from the 401k, now that money becomes taxable. And you don't wanna be in a position where now you're 70 and you're paying more taxes, right, than what you're pulling out, then you're making money. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So the thing is that you wanna spread it out, spread the love a bit. And the thing is that as entrepreneurs, we get to double dip. We get to have the 401k, if you're still working at a corporate job, and you can also get a SEP, a self-employed retirement plan or self-employed plan, something like that. I actually just opened one this year. Well, last year. So that way you can put that money aside, still can be pre-taxed. There are also after tax options, like Roths and whatnot. Anne: Yep, yep. That's what I have. Yep. Erikka: Yeah. And there are like different things. You can invest it in like real estate, you know, you can pick which mutual funds or whatever, or have somebody manage it for you. But you just have more than one option to fund your retirement. Anne: By the way, this is a disclaimer for the podcast is that we are not wealth management experts. Erikka: Not at all. This all from personal experience. Anne: Just sharing, yes Just sharing our personal experiences. Yes. And so I'm thankful that I have pensions set up, but that doesn't mean that I'm not investing now smartly in other areas. You know, I have a Roth IRA. I have a financial planner that I work with, and he's actually been taking care of me since my job actually. I just kind of stayed with him because he knows me well and I trust him. And I think that's an important thing, like what to look for in a financial planner. Did you have one recommended to you or? Erikka: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, what's really funny is I don't remember how I met my financial planner. 'Cause originally it was one guy, and I think maybe somebody at work might have referred him, but that guy ended up leaving the company. And I got replaced with another guy and now we're like friends, Brandon, shout out to Brandon with Northwestern Mutual. He's a great guy. I think somebody that just, first of all, listens, they're not just trying to sell and shove stuff down your throat, really listening to your needs and your concerns and what you're looking for, what you feel comfortable with from a budget perspective on spending. The thing that I loved about my financial planers too, is that they didn't jump into the sale of the plan. They obviously explained it to me, but from a total wealth health perspective. We looked at like my debt and like coming up with a plan to get that paid down or off, which yay, I've pretty much done other than the mortgage and student loans. But yeah. So just really somebody that's gonna listen and take your needs into account and make that first, before they get the sale. 'Cause obviously they are selling policies at the end of the day, but yeah, I think that's important. Anne: That's true. And we always have to think about that. They are selling something at the end of the day, and they are profiting off of it. And so that's why it's so important that, yeah, you can find someone that you can connect with. And I think you're right. Looking at someone who's really looking at you and your financial future and at least seems like they have your best interests at heart before they try to sell you. Erikka: For sure. For sure. Anne: Because I think a lot of us get a little bit, whoa. The eyes like, oh my God, I don't know. Talking about money and financial planning gets me nervous. Erikka: Yeah. A lot, lot of people. Anne: Because that's not necessarily my forte. Erikka: yeah. Then you start adding in things that are seen as like morose, which I think is number five we're on now is life insurance. It's like, nobody wants to think about dying. Anne: Yeah. Right? Erikka: It's like, I'll just be here until whatever happens. And I don't wanna think about what's gonna happen. But if you have a family, if you wanna have anything that you wanna leave behind. And honestly, even if you don't have kids, if you have things, like if you have built up some type of wealth, if you have a house, you don't want people fighting over that stuff in probate court and whatnot. And like people trying to figure out how to pay for your funeral. I hate what hurts my heart when I see GoFundMes to have to pay for someone's funeral. You know, families should be able to grieve without having to worry about the money to do it. Anne: I agree. Erikka: Get life insurance. There are so many different types of plans and some are, are more affordable than others. At least look into it and you know, put it in your plan. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And with that, I mean, again, wills, wills are important. Erikka: Wills, power of attorney and trusts. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Again, it's just my personal experience. But I have talked to a professional and bad girl Erikka, I haven't done it yet, but it is on my list for this year. Yeah. I was educated that a will is not enough. A will, can be contested in probate court. And I was shocked. I was like, really? Are you sure? Like for the lawyer -- Anne: That's actually news to me. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Wow. So what else is necessary then? Erikka: So I've heard that like a trust is really kind of the most, I guess I could say foolproof --again, I'm not a lawyer, so this is what I've been told. And what I've heard is the easiest way to ensure that what you want to go down goes down. If you already have things set aside in a trust for your kids or for whoever, there's nothing to contest. It's already set aside, their name is on it. The ownership just passes on to them having a power of attorney, especially medical, someone to make those decisions for you. Knowing what the hierarchy is is that normally it will go to your spouse. If you're not married, it will go to the oldest child. If you don't have an oldest child, it'll go to the parent. I might have that mixed up. But knowing what that is, and if that person doesn't want that responsibility, you need to put it on paper of who it might be. Anne: Exactly, exactly. Erikka: Like maybe your husband or wife doesn't want that choice because it's too hard for them. I don't know. Like you have to talk about that. Anne: And not only do it just once, but you have to update it when things happen. Erikka: God, yes. Anne: Right? In the family, it needs to be updated. And I'm guilty of that right now because you know, a family member has unfortunately passed away. And so I need to think about, okay, who would be next in line for my possessions once I pass on? So it is important to kind of keep those things up to date. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And guardianship agreements, which was something I had never heard about. But you have to think about that. If you do have kids, being able to have on paper or even if you're incapacitated for a little while. If God forbid you get COVID, you're intubated for, you know, a couple weeks, who's gonna take care of your kids in the meantime? You don't want that decision to be up in the air. So yeah. All these planning for the future sort of items are just important to think about, especially if you are really just doing voiceover or entrepreneur and don't sort of have, you know, another company that supplies these things for you, you wanna supply them for yourself. Anne: Yeah. And again, bringing this back towards the idea of a balanced entrepreneurial, you know, career. And not just what's the income that I'm bringing in, but what am I expensing, that kind of a thought process? 'Cause we don't like to think about what we have to pay for, but we certainly love the money coming in. And so we don't always wanna think about the future and protecting ourselves or even investing in ourselves for the future, but it is absolutely a part of your life, right, And of course your business as well, to make sure that you have planned for these types of events that can happen. And especially if we can't work, I think it's so important for us. I think most of us don't even think about it because, number one, we're fortunate that a lot of us can work from home. And we've got our studios in our house, so what could possibly happen that would stop me from being able to work in my house. Well, I can't talk maybe or yeah. Some sort of an illness that takes that away from me. And I'll tell you, I have a lot of people that inquire about voiceover that are disabled or want to be in the home because they can't go out for some reason into the workforce and that maybe they are on disability. And so it is a wonderful career for that. But I think if we're healthy and we're not thinking about that, , we're not thinking about it. And I think we need to. Erikka: Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be bad things like, as has recently, you know, everybody should know now that I am with child at 40. Anne: Yay! Erikka: Jesus. Which, I mean, it's great, but it's a little different than when I was pregnant at 25. So, you know, like there are different complications. I've got thyroid issues now that I, you know, I have to take medication for and watch. I'm a little more at risk for things like preeclampsia that could put me out early or put me in the hospital or put me on bedrest. And if I can't work, even though this is a great occasion -- I'm having a new life and a new new family member, but I have to plan. Anne: And you probably have to visit the doctor more. Erikka: That's the other thing, yes. Anne: Because of that, right? Erikka: Well, and I've also been in the booth a little less. I just had to slow down. I have to go to the doctor very often. So there are times where I might have to push a session out or not be able to do something right away because I have a doctor's appointment. Or, I'm in the booth, my breath support is not the same Anne: So I can vouch for that after having surgery on my chest. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. And also, and this is a -- like I thought I'd be young forever, but I'll tell you what, as I'm becoming older, it is so much more important, your health, taking care of yourself because just, I can't do what I used to do. And it just, that impacts my business a little bit. I mean, it's not, it's not a horrible scenario, but I definitely am feeling age and how it's affected me to be able to perform and do what I do on a day to day basis. Erikka: Right. And the whole point is just to have a plan for it. If you have contingencies in place and you know, things that prepare for the future, then you'll be fine. But we just can't just act like everything's gonna stay the way it is because just like technology, as Anne and I know things get old Anne: We need backups. Erikka: We need backups. Anne: We need backups. That's right. We need backups. Oh man. I'll tell you for sure. And I think that, again, it gets to the point where I know there's a lot of people that try to enter into this industry. And it's one of those where I don't know if it's the concept of the dream of, oh, I can work from home, and it's gonna be easy, that a lot of people come to this business without thoughts of investing in the business. They're like, well, I don't have a lot of money, but I wanna be able to work and make thousands of dollars a month doing voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Gonna spend so many more thousands first. Anne: But yeah, that's this thing. I mean, I think the whole concept of investing in your business now here's a good balance, right? Not necessarily listening to the dream and simplifying things to the point where, oh, it's just so easy. I'll just be able to buy a microphone and do this. No, there's so many things that you have to think about in order to run your business. And then it's beyond that because I know it took me a long time before I really thought seriously about disability, life insurance now that I am doing this full time and really helping to support the family that I have and be able to contribute to it in a very helpful way versus, oh, I can only contribute this because I'm not a fully owned -- you know, my husband is gonna retire sooner than me. And so I'll be the one that will be kind of taking on the, probably the income for a few years until I retire. I mean, I'd love to be able to retire at the same time. And I'll tell you, that's what I keep trying to do on a day to day basis. But in the meantime I found myself planning my business for extra income and extra streams of income so that I can afford to reinvest it in things that will protect us when I wanna be able to just enjoy my life when I retire and not have to worry about health expenses, not to worry about how am I gonna live, how am I gonna pay the rent, or I wanna travel, how am I gonna pay those bills? And so now is the time to think about those things. And any of you BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into the industry, it is something that you should consider. Yeah, this industry is not necessarily as easy as a lot of people wanna think it is. Erikka: And you have to think about it that even though yes, we're at home and yes, for the most part, we're either sitting or standing in our booths most of the day or sitting down editing, this is still a physical job. It still is labor. Like -- Anne: How could I break an ankle? Erikka: You know what I mean? Like, yeah. You're probably at low risk to break things, but it is still something that requires your body in order to do the work. So as you get older or things happen where you might get sick, you wanna try to find, you know, passive forms of income that can support you such as policies or real estate investments or whatever other investments you're interested in. But also thinking about, you know, me having to work from home for the past two years before even being pregnant, I put on a couple pounds 'cause I wasn't moving around as much. And that affects health. You know? So making sure that you are thinking about that future and taking care of yourself and doing things to move around and get about that people that are working outside the home kind of get naturally that you may not, if you're working from home doing voiceover. Anne: Exactly. And I love that you brought up the idea of passive income that doesn't have to do with voiceover. I mean, passive income is just a -- we can have a whole podcast on that. Erikka: Oh my God. Anne: It's just the coolest concept, right, the passive income, because that's really where I have been delving my concentration into how can I make passive income that's going to supplement me in retirement? And so I love that you said just in other investments, in other areas, not just voiceover, how can you make passive income in other ways? And so, I think a lot of people think that, oh, if I'm full-time voiceover, that's all I have to do. No, think of it this way. You are an entrepreneur. I don't even really think of it. Oh, I'm a voiceover talent and that is my business. I am an entrepreneur and I am a business first. And so to me, the challenge and the joy is how can I make money? Erikka: Multiple streams of income are the key to wealth. Absolutely. Anne: Yes. Exactly. How can I make money so that I am not worried about it or stressed about it? Because that's one of the biggest issues when we first come into the business and we're doing full-time voiceover, and maybe it's the first time you've had your own business. And now you're like, oh my gosh, where's this money going to come from? That's the huge stressor, I think in the first few years of anyone's business is, oh gosh, where's the money coming from? Where's the income? And when you can start to devise and plan and strategize streams of passive income, I think that's when you're really growing your business. And for me, that's, that's so exciting. Erikka: Isn't it? Like, it's really cool to just be able to like make money in your sleep. If we could like man, like there are ways to do it. There are people that do it and to hop on a soapbox real quick, even things that are related to voiceover, this is why understanding usage and having cutoffs for things that are broadcast are so important because that can be passive income. That is voiceover related. If they use your voice again and wanna run it again, you don't have to get in the booth and make that money. You don't wanna cut yourself out of that. So please, I mean, people, BOSSes that are coming into this and coming to see Anne, please, please, please understand usage and have those things in place. Anne: Oh, I'm so glad you landed on that one. Erikka: Yes. Anne: Yeah. Excellent point and usage is, there's that lovely stream. passive income. Erikka: The residuals. They're beautiful. The unexpected checks. Anne: You gotta love it. You gotta love it. Well, what a great conversation. Maybe not as fun as some people like to think in, in this voiceover business, but a definitely a necessary conversation to have. BOSSes, balance, balance in your career, balance in your life, planning, planning for the future. That is most definitely an important factor in maintaining, achieving balance in your lives and careers. So. Wow. So I'd like to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also have another moment that I'd like to take to ask you to imagine a world full of passionate, empowered -- wow. That was a lot of P's -- diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn more about how your voice can make a difference. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you right or left brain dominant? Anne & Erikka are here to bust the left vs. right brain myth, and discuss how both creativity and sensibility are essential in any entrepreneur. For all the creatives, they share tips to help your biz with structure. For our tech peeps, they have creative ideas for getting out of your own way. Make sure you know your studio inside and out, make a backup for the backup, and if you want more tips, you'll just have to tune in! >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm excited to have back to our new series on balance special guest co-host Erikka J. Erikka! Erikka: Hey BOSSes. Anne: Hey. How are you? Erikka: I'm good. How are you, Anne? Anne: Erikka , I'll tell you what, some days I have to say -- I always try to be grateful every day and find something to be grateful for. And so today I am grateful for my experience in the tech world. And I know you can identify with that because you are a tech girl as well. Erikka: Indeed. Anne: Because I had a crash of my Twisted Wave, and crazy enough, the file that I thought was the right file was not the right file, and I lost it. But I will tell you that my experience back in the day was backup, backup, backup. So thankfully I mirror everything onto another drive, and then not only do I mirror things on another drive, but I also back up to the cloud. So thankfully what had auto-saved actually was in the cloud, and I was able to restore it. Thank God, and not have to worry about redoing all of this huge eLearning module that I just did. Erikka: So I can hear the relief in your tone, Anne. Anne: I know. And so I am grateful to have this kind of a, you know -- I was always told that I had like a 50-50 kind of a brain, like the tech brain and the creative. And I enjoy the two of them. And as a matter of fact, Erikka, I love the tech aspect of the business as much as I love voiceover, the creative aspect. Erikka: Oh yeah. Yeah. Anne: I think it's important for successful VO entrepreneurs to have a little bit of a left-right brain thing. Don't you think? Erikka: Absolutely. I talked before about, you know, being an ambivert and then I came up with the term, I think I'm ambi-brained as well. No, it's not a real word. I made it up. I love the fact that we are able to be creative and true artists in this business and have that sort of artistic input, but you have got to have some type of technical and business and analytical aptitude to be successful as well. We are engineers really or the -- no, not as far as the audio engineers, the big ones at the studios. God bless y'all. Anne: Yes. Erikka: But we have to be engineers in some capacity . Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. I'm so glad you said that. Like let's just say that one more time. So yes, in order to be successful in this business, it is so important to have both the creative and the analytical brain. Because you have to be able to execute on both levels. You have to be able to understand how to convert your audio file to MP3, or you need to understand how to attach a file to an email, or you need to be able to literally, if somebody can talk you through a session on ipDTL or SourceConnect or whatever that is, you need to have a little bit of an aptitude. Otherwise clients may not have the time to be able to walk you through those things or deal with someone who doesn't know how to send them the work that they've requested and they're paying for. Erikka: Yeah. And it's not even just -- you know, I have a stack set up by one of the greats and I'm done, right? Because you have to be able to have that sort of aptitude to know when you run into problems. As we know, as tech girls always happens, technology's gonna technology. Something's gonna happen. And you gotta kind of have that sort of way of thinking to be able to troubleshoot and you know, kind of figure out why aren't they hearing me on Zoom or why am I getting an echo or you know, that kind of thing. So that's really helpful in what we do. Anne: I'll tell you, I always get nervous when I have my students will say to me, yeah, I'm not really good at technology. Well, and I understand that, right? I mean, for people to be excited about technology, sometimes it takes a special geek like myself and I think you to appreciate it. But also it is a responsibility, right? It's a responsibility of your business to be able to function. And if you cannot function in a technical capacity or an analytical capacity that you need to, I think you need to have a full understanding of what it entails so that you can maybe hire or outsource, but also at least know what it takes to succeed and educate yourself. I think that's so important. If you are not really technical go to a computer class, you know? Go to a class that helps you to do whatever it is. Go take an audio editing class. Erikka: Yeah. It's part of the job description. I mean, it's not just talking into a microphone. In 2022 and beyond, people aren't just walking into studios and just letting the engineer do everything anymore, talking, and leaving. You have to know some of this stuff. And maybe, you know, you're not 50-50. Maybe you're not naturally super tech savvy, but it's not like you can't learn it. There are so many classes that are available online where you don't have to go somewhere. It's possible, but you do have to, like Anne said, have some sort of aptitude; you have to. Anne: And like you mentioned before, it's not like you're gonna be an audio engineer for your career. We don't have to go to that level of depth. But we do have to understand how to produce a file in the format that the client has requested. And also we have to understand enough about our equipment so that we can, God forbid, okay, something breaks. I am the biggest person, like I think rule number one for everybody, technologically has to be, have a backup, not just a backup of your files, but a backup of equipment as well. Erikka: Everything, redundancy, redundancy, yes. Anne: And internet. Oh my God. If you don't have the internet, we are sunk. . Like, our internet goes down for like 30 seconds, and I'm like, oh my God, who has taken down my internet? And I literally will run outside and look for people like, 'cause we have fiber in the ground. I'm like, is there somebody working in the fiber underground? Because this cannot be. Our phone runs off the internet kind of thing. Erikka: Oh my goodness. I had somebody doing some work in my front yard, and they swore that, you know, all the lines were marked. The people came out and did 'em. They're like, I was like, did you guys hit a line? I lost my internet. I have a session. And they're like, no, we didn't hit a line. We're good. And I'm like, are you sure? Anne: Oh, I know. Erikka: You know, thank God I had a hotspot. That was my backup. But it was like -- Anne: See? Yes, yes, yes. I was just gonna say, please, for the love of God -- Erikka: Oh goodness, please. Anne: -- have a backup internet, like a hot spot and understand how to get it going. So if you're in the middle of a session, and your internet fails -- and please, the other thing I wanna mention is -- I can't stress this enough. And I even wrote like a blog article. And as a matter of fact, I think I'm gonna throw it out there on the ether again. It's so important for you to, if you can, to have a dependable, reliable connection. And a lot of times wifi is not cutting it. Erikka: It's not, no. Anne: And if you don't know what's happening on your wifi connection, if there's a lot of people let's say watching movies in your household, or maybe, I don't know, you've got something that's causing some sort of interference, right? Sometimes it's as silly as your refrigerator's causing interference and your wifi router is not reachable easily. It's just something that I constantly am telling people when they have a bad connection to me in ipDTL, I'll be like, are you on wifi? Erikka: Yeah. You've gotta hard wire, guys. You have to figure it out. Anne: And then it's hard to explain. Yeah. But I just got it upgraded. Most people are like, oh yeah, no, I've never had a problem. I'm like, but here you really need to have, for audio quality, and this is just gonna go back to my days, thankfully in the tech world, when I installed phone systems, but they were voiceover IP phone systems. So literally in order to hear audio consistently streaming quality, you have to have packet data back and forth with no drops and no interference and no slowness or degradation on the line. And so the same thing really has to happen with your connection to the studio let's say through ipDTL or SourceConnect. So the more of reliable you can make that connection, and that includes your home connection, right? Connects wired to your router, because that's a whole lot more reliable because it's connected wired versus wifi in the air when five, ten other people could be using your network or even your computers and you don't know. Erikka: Yeah. You guys don't see me silently slow clapping in here. Like listen to the BOSS, listen to Anne, guys. You got to get the hard wire connection. Anne: All about the hard wire connection. It's reliable. It is your business. If we didn't do most of our work online, it wouldn't matter as much, but it does. Erikka: Yeah. And it's not even just the internet, just like you said, like having multiple ways to connect, you know, you've got SourceConnect kind of gets wonky. You know, you gotta have a Zoom or Google Meter, ipDTLe or something ready, having more than one interface. I know these things cost money, but as you grow your business and you make some -- set some aside for reinvestment in the business. Please don't just have one microphone. You don't have to have 10 of them like me. But 'cause I'm a nerd. Anne: What will you do if your interface fails right before a session? I've had that happen. Erikka: Oh my God. Yep. Anne: And a lot of times I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna vent a little bit, Erikka. And I think you'll -- Erikka: Do it, do it. Anne: -- people will buy these bundled packages with a microphone, headphones and interface. And -- Erikka: I did it the first time, I did. Anne: One of them is -- I'm not gonna say a name, but it's a kind of a color. It is. Erikka: There's a letter associated with it. Anne: The name is a color. So if you buy something like that in a bundled package, understand that they're probably making it cheaper with cheaper components. And therefore those things that you rely on may fail at the worst time. And I have had so many people where that has failed on them. So please get a backup and don't get the same brand, get a different brand that would be proven reliable. And you know, I got lots of suggestions. I have a page just on the VO BOSS website. We have studio gear. So you can see all my recommendations, but the one that represents the color is not one of my recommendations. Erikka: Na, I mean, it, it has worked, you know, it got me through, I actually still have it like as a stand from my lamp -- Anne: Well, as a backup, it does great. Erikka: -- to remind me of, you know, how I started, you know? Keep me humble. Anne: Oh, I had two of them. I had two of them. Erikka: Hey, it is great. But as you're growing and you're being relied on for live sessions, yeah, you've gotta have something that first of all, the hardware that's more reliable and then a backup for sure. And it's everything cables too. Anne: I'm gonna say your microphone. Erikka: Yes. Microphone. Yep. Yep. Microphones for sure. You gotta back up. Anne: I've never had a microphone fail on me, but -- Erikka: Same. Yeah. Anne: -- I have to say it gave me a good excuse to buy an additional microphone. Erikka: Right? Me too, me too. Anne: I'm gonna say BOSSes. It took me some time because I had a really decent microphone that I used for many years that made me money that was only a few hundred dollars, was wonderful. But then, you know, I upgraded myself to the 416, which is what I'm speaking on now. And of course I have a TLM 103 as well. Erikka: Yep, same here. Anne: So there's my A-B -- and by the way, have it not just as a backup, but if you can quickly switch from one to the other, it's not just, oh, let me go get my microphone, and then you've gotta, rehook it up. And then you gotta like thread the shock mount and that kind of thing. No, have it at the ready. So have a backup, have it the ready. And I always recommend -- I am not like a hardware kind of girl and cables and this and that same, but label, label your cables so that, you know, or take pictures so that you know how things are connected. And that way, if something goes wrong and need to disconnect it, or you gotta replace a piece of equipment, you know how to connect it back again. Erikka: You know, my dad is a hardware guy; that was his tech side. So little bit of a nerd with the cables just in terms of like organization and yes, I have blue painter's tape and I have like, this is the one for input one and I have it on like three points up the cable so that I know which one I'm looking at, just in case I have an off day, this is the one from input two. And I've got backup cables too, just in case. Anne: Levels too. Erikka: Oh my goodness. Anne: You know, taking a picture of the dials. So you know where your levels are. If somebody helps you set it up. Erikka: Speed test for your internet. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh. Yes. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So that is all the tech side. And it's funny, we end up talking about the tech side so much because I feel like that's where people, the 50 part of the brain is lacking for a lot of people that are struggling. Because the performance, they'll spend dollars on workshops for performance on coaching, which I think is wonderful and amazing. But yet people don't necessarily think about that when it comes to the other part of the brain. And even if you can hire somebody and outsource somebody for the tech side of things -- hey, look, I still hire somebody to set up my stacks and to listen to me once in a while to make sure that everything there is good. And if I need advice in setting up, oh, look, I wanna add another microphone to this interface. How can I do this? And maybe switch it on the fly. I will call an audio engineer to help me do that. But also I need to have that understanding myself of how it all goes together and how it works and how it serves me in my business. So photos, diagrams, label the cables, I think that's important. And you can't be afraid of doing that. And I'll tell you, you learn the most when things break. Erikka: , that is the truth. Anne: Right? Erikka: Keeping things balanced is knowing that, you don't have to know everything. You do have to have some sort of understanding and some sort of aptitude, but it is okay to outsource to someone that is an expert in that area. Anne: Oh yeah. Erikka: Like you said, I still have people, you know, I call Jordan or, you know, Uncle Roy. Anne: Yep. Tim Tippetts. Erikka: I have Tim Tippetts. We're still using, leveraging -- Anne: George Whittam. Erikka: George Whittam, yeah, absolutely -- those people to leverage their technical expertise because they're experts and that's where the most of their brain power is. But I'm not clueless. You know what I mean? And I think that that's important. Anne: Yeah. I think you should always be curious. One of the reasons why I think I excelled in technology and enjoyed it so much in my career was it was very similar to being an entrepreneur. There was a problem that I had to solve, and it was cool because I got to solve many different types of problems, and it was fun, and it was interesting and challenging to me. And that's very similar to as entrepreneurs, we have different things come up every day, and we're solving problems for clients. We're solving problems with our business. We're growing, we're failing. And I have to say, Erikka, the episode that we did, and BOSSes, if you haven't heard it on the modern mindset, failing forward is an amazing episode. It was one of our most popular episodes, about how you can fail. Like I just said, you learn so much when you fail. And you can fail forward so that it helps you to propel your business and expand your mind and learn. And I think that's where people need to be with the other 50% of whatever it is that you're maybe lacking. Maybe people are in technology. I love people that are in tech and then they wanna get into voiceover, 'cause they love the creative part of it. But for me being in tech and having to solve multiple challenges, and they were something new every day, that was creative for me. Erikka: Absolutely. I'm so glad you said that because it's easy to kind of separate them, you know, and we do that while we say left brain, right brain, you know, creative or technical, but it's really, there is a space in the middle, you know. Like the software engineers that I work with, they are creating, they have ideas. Anne: Sure. Erikka: And when we are problem solving or when we're troubleshooting, you're using that creative part of your brain to try to find a way around the problem. So it's absolutely a little bit of both. Anne: Yeah. And I'm thankful for the amount of time that I got to spend in the technological world and solving problems because I think it helped me in my business, and it helps me also be more creative in my performance. Because I'm constantly, here's the problem, I'm thinking about what is the solution and what are the steps to get to the solution? Same thing when you're trying to analyze the script. Right? So it's kind of breaking it down and then saying, okay, so what is the story of the script? What are the major points? Is there a -- I always call it a crescendo in the story. Is there a call to action? Is there a turning point? And so that helps me to solve the problem, right, of the performance aspect of things. But also I can use that same technique to solve problems with, let's say my interface doesn't work or I'm not hearing anything in my headphones. What can I do to troubleshoot this problem. Erikka: I mean, that's basically what storytelling, usually it has that type of arc. The story, the script itself is laying out a problem, sort of, oh, here's the solution, even talking about products. And it's like, if you understand that arc of problem solving, it's gonna help you vocally perform that way to here's the problem. Here's the solution. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. What's so interesting is you can hear that in the voice. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Here's a problem. But yet now I'm discovering a solution and yes, the solution. So you can kind of hear the emotion and how I've evolved from the problem into oh, a solution. And that's so interesting that it's really cool way to tell the story and evolve, problem solving and voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. It's more intertwined than you think, that creative and technical side. Anne: I like that. I like that. So what sort of things can you think of would help us to explore let's say the other side of our brain that maybe we wanna work on and develop? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Any tips or tricks you got? Erikka: 'Cause I guess, yeah, that could go either way. There are people that might be, and I know this was a problem for me starting out, is that I always kind of had some creativity in me, but I would default to technical so quickly because it was analytical. Is this right? You know, are my levels good? Is this, am I peaking, you know, like kind of getting, when am I reading all the word right? And that's when we get read-y, right? Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: Like, you know, Dave Fennoy always talks about the read-y read -- Anne: That's right. And that's when you get too technical about it. Erikka: That's when we're too technical. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Erikka: So there are some people that might be too far on the analytical side and need to know, kind of get some of that creative going. So it's both. I think some of those tools that you can use is obviously the brain is all about repetition. It really is. So the more that you can learn about this stuff from different sources and just doing it on a regular basis, you can't do voiceover once a week and expect to get to a performance level of being a pro. Anne: Yeah. I love that you said that. Erikka: You can't, because you have to have that repetition and then your brain kind of starts to absorb it and do it on autopilot. I think that's the great ways is to exercise both of those sides on a regular basis, just like muscles. Anne: Yep. It's a muscle and yeah. I'm always telling my students it's, you know, with 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell said that. Erikka: Oh yeah, that's right. Anne: 10,000 hours. Now you don't have to spend 10,000 hours coaching. But I do believe you need to spend 10,000 hours working on your business, working on your performance. And as you were mentioning it, it's definitely a muscle because how are you going to perform if you've not experienced telling the story or experience the process of -- here's the script, let's break it down, let's analyze it, let's find out where are the main points? What's the story here? What's the backbone of the story? So many times we're so in a rush to go in and what happens when you do that, you end up reading the story. And you don't wanna read the story. You wanna tell the story and be in the story to make it the most believable and most natural. So I think stepping through a process, similar to how you would problem solve in terms of breaking down the script -- and that doesn't have to take a long time. I have a lot of people that will ask me -- 'cause I do tons of long format narration. And they're like, well, do you mark up your script? And I'm like, no, because I've got my brain working faster than my mouth right now. Because I'm reading ahead a little bit more to understand the story. And plus I'm always reading the script fully once at a, a quick pace usually. So I get the words outta my mouth. I understand where I need to breathe. And it helps me to grab the context of it. And I'll tell you what, if I can get that bionic app to put my scripts in. I think that would just really accelerate even more. Erikka: That could really be a game changer. And the thing is like, when you do that initial sort of read and understanding and connecting with the story, if you can understand the context and maybe connect it to something that is real to you, and if you can make that connection quick, it's gonna make it easier for you to get through the script. Even if they're not your words, you can put it in the context of, oh, this did happen to me. This is how I felt. And you voiced in the way that you felt in that scenario. Anne: Right. Erikka: It's gonna make your performance better. Anne: Absolutely. There has to be that element of you that comes into that story. And how many times do we hear that when we first enter into the industry? Oh, you know, bring you to the party and we need to hear you. We need, yeah. I'll say it 'til the cows come home. It is not about the voice that you think they want to hear. It's really about you and how you tell the story and your unique perspective, and your unique perspective means what's the nuance of emotion? What's the point of view in the story? Are you in the story? Are you excited by the story? Are you sad? Are you solving a problem? What is it that you're doing? And so doing that, those steps of problem solving will help you, I think, to enhance the creative performance aspect as well. Erikka: Yes, yes. That's what makes us actors and not just voice. Not just talkers. Anne: Yeah. And I have so many students who say, well, I'm not creative at all. They come from a tech world and I'm like, oh yes, you are. Erikka: Yes, you are. Anne: And let me tell you how, because , for me, that's all it was, it was about that. Erikka: Well, how do you think we got all this technology? Somebody was pretty creative to figure out that we could be on opposite sides of the country and be able to talk to each other. Anne: God. I know, you know, I say that all the time. Like I would marry the Internet if I could, I would marry the internet. It is one of the most wonderful developments. And back in the day, again, I'm aging myself, back in the day when the Internet was a little more than DARPANET, I got so excited about the fact that we could communicate through the ethers and do really cool things on the Internet. And it's just amazing how it can bring people together, technology. And that's, I think where my love of technology comes from, and I'm not afraid of it because I kind of wanna be on the edge of it. I wanna learn new things. I wanna see how it can continue to connect me with people. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And it is definitely also a creative endeavor to imagine what's not already there. I mean, that's really what technology does, and then you just make it. So you can develop the creative side and you can develop the tech side. You can, you can do it. Anne: And let's talk not just tech, but I mean, I guess I'm considering tech, like that's the other 50% of your brain needs to be tech. But in reality, I think that's synonymous with, it can also be your accounting brain. Erikka: Yes. Anne: You know, because we've gotta send invoices and we have to be marketers. And so that's the other 50% as well. We have to sell ourselves because we're not gonna be able to make money in the industry if people don't know about us. So somehow we've gotta be out there and get creative and market. And that's where the creative and again, tech will come into play because maybe you're gonna do an email campaign. Maybe you're gonna do social media. How are you gonna get in front of these people? And we're gonna have an episode in the future, I know this, Erikka, about SEO and about -- Erikka: Oh yeah, we have to. Anne: -- how you can cut through the noise of the Internet. Because while I love the Internet over the years, it's gotten really popular. Erikka: Yeah. There's, there's a few people on there, you know? Anne: Yeah. Back in the day I remember going, oh, we'll never try to sell things on the computer. It's free. It's all about sharing research and education. And the funny thing is, is boy, did that not turn out the way I expected. Erikka: Yeah. For sure. I'm so glad you said that though. Because really when we talk about, you know, left brain, right brain, it's really more like creative versus analytical. It's not just tech. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Erikka: Because that business aspect is definitely leans more -- I think it's actually somewhat centered 'cause there is an element of creativity in business. Anne: Agreed. Erikka: But you've got to be able to, like you said, either do your accounting or at least have a, somewhat of an understanding enough to be able to outsource it. Anne: Well and to be able to, yeah, to be able to direct your accountant on what you need done, right? That's it. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And then there's the creativity of being able to direct maybe your graphic designer for your website, you know, how do you wanna be branded? Anne: Yeah. I think, you know that better than anybody; you're a project manager. Right? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So you need to understand the processes that are happening in order to direct it. And as an entrepreneur of your own voiceover business, we need to be able to direct the people that we outsource. Like I need to be able to direct my accountant on, okay. I need to know, you know, what's my profit and loss. What am I spending my money on? And that sort of thing. So I need to be able to log into my accounting system to do that. And I'm gonna bring up a point that I think, Erikka, you can relate to: web hosting and websites. So many people are scared of their websites. And for the longest time, I think if you didn't know how to write HTML or you didn't know how to launch a website or you didn't understand anything about it, website developers would hold you hostage. And I'm like, you need to know how to get into your website, make sure your website is being backed up. Make sure that you have copies of maybe a downloaded backup of it on your computer. And then if you need to change something, at least know how to log into your hosting provider and make a change, right? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Or assign -- change the password to allow to assign it to somebody else. Anne: There you go. That's it. Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Totally agree. Just you're just preaching the gospel here, Anne. I'm just here, you know, I'm just here in the pew. . Anne: That's important. I can't tell you how many people just, I think the website just, it's one of those things that is beyond most people's brains or imaginations because they've never experienced it or never had to. But now I think it's important that everything that is a aspect of your business, right, write down. All right. Where did you buy your domain name? Who are you hosting? You have to know these things. Erikka: When's it up for renewal? Is it on auto renewal? Anne: Right? Exactly. Erikka: So you don't lose it. Anne: Oh my gosh. Can I tell you I have an Excel spreadsheet of all my subscriptions because I lose tracks so easily. Erikka: Were we born from the same person? Anne: I think we were. Erikka: Because my Google sheets are like shameful because yeah. , I've got one for medical. I've got one for personal. I've got one for business. Yeah. And I track my subscriptions too. Anne: You have to track your subscriptions. That's just good business. Right? Being a good business owner because you have to know your outgoing expenses as much as your incoming. Erikka: Yes. And your personal ones too. Anne: Incoming. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Not just the business ones because the personal, like that's still your, your personal finance, it's still your money. So yeah. Track those, make sure Hulu didn't go up on you or Netflix or whatever streaming service, you know, so that, you know how much is coming out. Anne: My God. They do that. They sneak it on you. Erikka: They, you have like one of those home warranties and you don't need it anymore. Like they won't remind you, hey, you haven't used this. Do you wanna cancel your subscription? Like, no, , they're not, you know? So you need to make sure that you're using things that you're paying for. Anne: Yes. Amen. Amen to that. So 50-50 brains, BOSSes, I think we need to develop whatever side that maybe you're feeling weak in. Educate. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: I think education is so important. Erikka: And again, don't be afraid to outsource. You don't have to be an expert in this stuff. Anne: Right. Erikka: You don't have to feel like you gotta know everything about tech and business and accounting. There are people that nerd out on this stuff and do it in their sleep. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Erikka: Hire them, but just have a foundational understanding of what's going on. Anne: That's very, very important. And I think overall it'll help you run your business much, much, better, much smoother. And again, it will take away a lot of the fear of, oh my gosh, I don't know anything about that. So I can't start my business or I can't continue my business or I gotta hire someone, but I don't know anything. I don't know who to hire. I think education is key to being able to understand enough about both sides to progress and be a success. Oh right. My goodness. I could talk all day about that. Erikka: Oh man, time flies when you're having fun. Anne: It sure does. BOSSes. If you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to do more to help them, you absolutely can. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference with your voice. And a big shout-out to ipDTL, our sponsor. Gosh, I love ipDTL. I can't even, I'm a tech geek. Love, love, love ipDTL, because again, it's that 50-50 part of my brain that says not only can I technically speak to somebody across the world, but we can also connect and engage and have the creative aspect of our part come together through the technology, so find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Erikka: Bye, BOSSes. Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Let's talk balance! What goes into creating a work-life system that honors and prioritizes all these hats we wear? Anne and special guest co-host Erikka J share their own methods for balancing the various elements of a successful voiceover business, and discuss how to maximize productivity using techniques that keep the whole self in focus. Stay tuned for great conversations about time management, rest and relaxation, technology tools, and so much more. Explore focus skills, and learn how balancing your personal life and work life can be the key to being the best #VOBOSS you can be… MORE: https://www.voboss.com/balance >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to start a brand new series with special guest co-host Erikka J. Woohoo! Erikka: Hey! Anne: Hey Erikka. Well, for those of you that don't know Erikka, she is a singer-songwriter and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced commercials, narrations, political campaigns, for top brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover, Black Lives Matter, and many more. She's also a product and project management professional with 15 years experience in various sectors, including state and federal government, contracting, eCommerce, software development, and automotive. Woo Erikka. That's a list. Wow. You do an awful lot. Erikka: I forgot most of that. Thanks for the reminder. Anne: And not only that you just came back from like an extensive learning experience, extraordinaire at one of the JMC Euro retreats in Barcelona. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome. Anne: You're doing it all. It's kind of crazy. I think, uh, how do you do it? How do you achieve a balance with all of that? Because it just seems like, you know, you and I both, I run multiple brands, and it's something that we deal with, I think, on a daily basis. I think it would be a great topic for today's episode to talk about how we can achieve balance in our VO careers. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Or lives, not just VO careers, right? Erikka: Right. Anne: Take that back. Erikka: Right. For sure. Like the whole life 'cause family too. Anne: That's right. Erikka: How about that? Anne: That's right. Erikka: Um, but key number one, the number one tool is coffee. Both: Anne: Oh my God. And I literally, before we came on, I filled my cup to the max. So yeah, I've got coffee, but don't forget, BOSSes, also have that big old jug of water in your studio. Erikka: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Anne: Because I use that as a chaser so my vocal cords don't dry up, but yes, coffee. Erikka: I do both for sure. Not too much coffee. Just that one cup for me to get going in the morning. And if you wanna lay off that, green tea is a good alternate. You know? Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Erikka: It has caffeine. Anne: Absolutely. Erika: But yeah. You know, prioritization is a huge piece of how I handle all that. I don't get to every audition I want to sometimes, you know? Anne: Well, yeah. I remember that being my biggest hindrance, I think in progressing in my voiceover career back when I first started, because I had a very demanding tech job, and it pretty much took like all hours of the daytime for me. It wasn't just nine to five. I mean, a lot of times I was even working overtime, and I don't know if that's true with you, but it was hard for me to get to those auditions on time. Erikka: Yeah. So thank goodness I don't really have the overtime thing. Being able to work full-time from home kind of helps with that balance. So I know a lot of different places are offering that now, or maybe even just, you know, once or twice a week. So that helps a lot. But man, it is definitely a prioritization game, and to be able to accept and give yourself grace that you just can't do everything. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: So you do what's most important. Anne: Well, I think one thing that has changed well since the pandemic, right, the fact that you can potentially work from home, if that's a possibility, unless you work for Apple, right, at this point because Erikka: Right. Anne: Yeah. That's not gonna be a possibility, I don't think, but interestingly enough, our world has changed since the pandemic with people working from home and lots of companies offering their employees the ability to at least work remotely a portion of the time, or even sometimes forever. I know my husband can now work from home forever, and I actually really love that. I love having him home. I think he loves not having to sit in the commute for how many hours, which actually depending on how you use that time, I used to always listen to podcasts when I was sitting in traffic to try to make my time valuable in traffic. But yeah, it's so different now. So thankfully, if you work from home, you might be able to squeeze in and audition here or there. Erikka: Yeah. You know, I think corporations have increasingly become more aware of the benefits of balance to the corporate business. So people understanding that if I don't have to spend two hours of my day in traffic, maybe I'm more refreshed. Maybe I'm willing to spend an extra hour at work, getting that report done because I don't sit in traffic to do it. I can do a load of laundry or pick my kids up and come back and do a meeting. So I think that that's why a lot of them are increasingly okay with some remote work. Anne: And also there were some studies that were done that said that people were more productive at their home. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And I think for us as voice talent, because we primarily work from home anyways, if we're full-time, it makes all that much more difference to have that in-person kind of contact, which we get at conferences. But for the people who work full time, such as yourself and are voice actors and successful ones, not even just, oh, you're just starting out -- no, you're a very successful voice actor, not only finding time for auditions and work, but also escaping for a week or two to go to conferences and further your education. How are you working that with your job? I mean, is that something you have to beg for or I remember I was used to beg for time off. Erikka: Well, couple things. I think that just honestly, from a personality perspective, I'm not one that needs to be in the office and get the human interaction. I am a true textbook ambivert. I get my extrovert activities in, and I'll run to my bubble and you won't even know it. Like, you'll be like, where'd Erikka go? Like I needed to go recharge. So I don't necessarily need that, that touch. I get plenty just by doing live sessions and talking to people and the people in my home, and I'm good. But because a lot of my job is prioritization at work as a product owner, like I'm literally prioritizing work for my software developers, I just kind of make sure that I have everything done and ready to go if I know I'm gonna be out. And thank goodness I work for a wonderful company that has a great, flexible, unlimited PTO policy. So as long as your manager approves it and you know, your work is done, they're like, go ahead and take your time off and take care of yourself because that -- know that rested employees or employees that are able to live their lives and not have it all be about work are more productive and produce better work. Anne: Absolutely. And it really enables the creative aspect, I think of the profession to really shine if you have that time, that downtime. And I have to say that I do like the companies that enable the unlimited PTO. If you've got your work done, I know my husband has that same thing, and it's really, really made a difference. When I was working full time, it was one of those professions where I couldn't really work from home. And so it really was kind of prohibitive for me to do voiceover during the day, while I was at the job. But I think we have so many more opportunities these days, especially if you work in the tech sector. Right? And you don't necessarily have to be out in the field fixing computers or anything, but if you work and you have remote capabilities and so -- remote software capabilities and you know, there's Zoom. Thank God for Zoom and all the technological capabilities that help us to at least simulate a meeting with another person and see their faces, which I think is great. But yeah, I think starting out now in VO and working a full-time job, I think is a little bit easier. Erikka: Oh, absolutely. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And like you said, there's more opportunities for remote work. It's, you know, more accepted and not as taboo and seen as, oh, you're gonna kind of, you know, screw up or at home and just not really do your work. That's not really the thought anymore. And even with voiceover has become increasingly remote. You know, it's not so much that you have to go into the studio for every single session or even for auditions. It's been more accepted that there's a lot of technology available where and, you know, knowledge where people can actually have broadcast quality studios from home. So I think on both sides of it, it makes it easier now that technology has advanced. Anne: And now let me ask you a question in regards to your , it's not even just a double life 'cause you do so many things. I feel like it's a triple, quadruple, like whatever kind of a life. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Now do you tell your employer about the fact that you are a voiceover artist as well? And are you transparent with that? Or how does that work for you? Erikka: I'm so glad you asked that question because it was a little bit of a journey for me. So before I was really kind of doing voiceover to the magnitude I am now, it was more so music. And you know, I was writing at night and doing gigs on the weekends, and I was working for the government at the time. And you know, that just didn't really quite mix. And I wasn't really keeping it a secret, but I didn't broadcast it either. And the more I got uncomfortable with that, because I felt like I was hiding a piece of myself, I started to talk about it more. And then when I got this new job in the private sector, I was kind of really focused on corporate for a while and then pandemic hit. And you know, I started to say, you know what, this is me as a whole person. And I have a corporation that really values the whole person. And there are things that I learn in voiceover that help make me more creative at work. And it turns out I've actually done a couple of jobs for my company. Actually, they had a commercial that they ran here locally in Atlanta to try to get people to apply, you know, a lot of employment campaigns happening. So I was able to use that experience of literally the script was, we have multitudes and you know, people do all these other things. The visuals are showing people, doing all these other things outside of work. And I was like, that's me too. So I stopped hiding, and I actually have it on my LinkedIn. My headline is both of my titles. Anne: I love that. Erikka: And I love it. And I know that it's not comfortable for everybody, and not all corporations are quite that there yet, but I encourage some people to consider that. There was someone I was talking to and she's a doctor, and she had two separate profiles for her medical work and for her narration work. And I'm like, oh my goodness, do you know how much medical narration work you could get? Because you have the credibility of being a doctor. Anne: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Erikka: I say combine them if you can. Anne: Yeah. And be as transparent if you can. You know what's nice I think about voiceover is I feel like if there's a conflict of interest, , there's not high risk of that happening in your job, because there's really nothing else like voiceover. And, and I feel like, you know, unless of course maybe you're voicing a campaign for a competing company. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: That might be where some of the conflict of interest is, but in terms of actually having another career and being able to be transparent with your employer, I think that today it's even better than ever to have both. Right? You can have it all. Erikka: Absolutely. And I'm so glad you said that because that is one thing I did when I first got a job and they reached out to me, and it was actually my company as a whole separate media or creative agency, and they reached out to me for a job, they found me on 123. And I was like, whoa, I wanna make sure this isn't a problem. And I did reach out to our ethics and legal department, and they cleared it. They said, this is fine. Anne: Oh, that's great. Erikka: I think that's a great point to make sure you're not doing conflicts of interest. You don't wanna voice for, you know, a competitor and be the voice of. . Anne: Well, exactly. Erikka: That's probably not a good idea. So there are some considerations, but like you said, for the most part, it's pretty safe. Anne: Now, when you did your voiceover for your company, they did pay you, correct? Erikka: Yes. Anne: Separate? Erikka: They did. Anne: Yeah, okay. That's good. That's excellent. Now, was that something that you had to request? Because that's something I know a lot of people -- well, like myself and it was so long ago, it was just kinda like, oh yeah, you'll do those recordings for us. Right? You know? And it's part of your job, as part of your standard job. And, and at the time I don't think I was confident enough to like really stand up and say, hey, this is something that I get paid for. I think I used it as kind of a, a learning and a stepping stone as like here, because I hadn't really started working yet, but I wanted to. And I had been training. And so the timing for me was, oh, okay. This will be a good learning opportunity for me to voice some spots for the company and no, they're not gonna pay me, but that's okay because I'm on the job, then let me do it. And I'll consider this a learning on the job thing. Erikka: Yeah. I think that depends. So like in my case it was okay because it was actually a creative agency. It wasn't the company itself and they were hiring me. So it was fine for them paying me -- Anne: Okay. Erikka: -- you know, monetarily, but if a company that you're working for, and they're coming to you directly to, you know, voice a commercial that's going to put you in conflict and help sell something, I might not wanna do that, 'cause if you're without extra compensation, 'cause that takes you outta the running for other things. Anne: Sure. Erikka: But if it's like, you know, an e-learning or an explainer and it's not gonna take a lot of, and like it's, you're on the clock anyway, and you do kind of need the practice, I think that can be great. It's not necessarily a bad thing if it doesn't put you in conflict, but I think that's sort of a case by case, you know, see what feels right to you. I, I have heard of some people getting taken advantage, which I don't think is right. Anne: Yeah. I agree there. Yeah, I think that also, if it isn't a conflict of interest, I think it, it is something that you're talking about. I think it's also something that if we've not thrown the topic of you are worth it enough around in the industry, let's do it again. Right? You are worth getting paid. And I think that if you are transparent and your company finds that there's no real, you know, conflict of interest, you should mention, you know, if they ask you to do something for them, I think that you should absolutely stand up and, and say, yeah, absolutely. And will this be, you know -- for me, I was like, well, will there be an additional check for this? Or will there be additional money being allocated for this job? Because I would be happy to provide you with a quote. Erikka: Yeah. And the thing is that comes into that is it's not just your time. And it's really easy to just say, oh, we are just talking into a microphone, but who bought that microphone? Who bought the interface? Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Who bought the computer? Who paid for the training so that you had to do this in 30 minutes or whatever? You have a business; you have a media business. You're not just talking into a microphone, and you've invested in that. So they need to pay for part of that. Absolutely. Anne: So let me ask you a question, now, how are you prioritizing hours in your day? Is it possible for you to actually say, oh, here's I, I have an hour here that I can do auditions depending on the day, the schedule, the meetings? How do you organize your day with a full-time job and then working in full-time voiceover? Erikka: Yeah. So I have a lot of tools that I use, some new-school, some old. You know, I use things like ever node and -- Anne: Yep, yep. Erikka: Task List, Google Tasks and things like that. But I also, honestly, I'm really good about just paper and pencil, and I know that's old and I'm like an elder millennial and I still use it, but I do to-do lists. I, I use the calendar on my phone. Anne: me too. I love my calendar. Erikka: I love it. So it's like if I have auditions, and I know that they're coming in, you know, they're probably coming in from the west coast later in the day, I might try to record them that night if I have the energy for it. And maybe I'll edit them in the morning before my workday so that I can hear it again and see if I need to make adjustments. So I'll try to do that. I really try to get very efficient with my audition process and -- Anne: Yeah, that's key. Erikka: That is key. So that you're not spending 30 minutes on one audition. You don't have time for it. Anne: Gosh, yes. So here's just a little diversion into that world. And as a matter of fact, I've, I've talked to so many people that have been in the business for years, and auditioning is kind of a skill. It's like a muscle. And I think the more that you do it, the better you get at it. And also I think the more you realize that your first few takes are usually the ones that are the best, and it's not number 15 or 16 when you've rethought it or gone for a walk and come back and listened and said, oh God, no, it's horrible. Let me start again. Really, to be efficient, that I think is key to keeping a balance, right, to your work lives, you know, in multiple occupations. So don't spend an exorbitant amount of time on your auditions and just -- I always limit myself to three, takes three takes, done, send it and forget it. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And what I'll do too is like, if I it's a red flag to me, if I've been on something for more than 10, maybe 15 minutes, if it's a little longer, and I've have recorded auditions and not sent them, 'cause I was like, you know what? This just doesn't even feel right. This one isn't for me. Anne: I love that you said that because I have done that too. I always go by my gut instinct. And I feel that even if after the three takes, I'm not feeling it, I'm not gonna send it in. 'Cause you're right. Again, we are storytellers and we have to be able to envision the scene. We have to be in the scene to be real, to be authentic. And it has to feel right I think in order to really, I don't know, work. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. That's part of the balance. And I think a lot of times we know, even before we get in the booth. Like I'll get that email and I'll get that gut. Like, Ooh, I can't wait to read this. You know? And then you get the one where it's like eeeehhh. Anne: Well, I think it's important to note though that when you read through it the first time, and just because you're efficient at auditioning doesn't mean that you're not reading through and doing a little bit of analysis now in the beginning. Because in order to know, if you wanna tell the story, you kind of have to know the story. So taking a look at that script and maybe doing a Google here and there for the company or the brand, if it's known, absolutely can help you. And it can speed up the process. Gosh, what did we do before the Internet, right, when we got an audition and we wanted to find out more about the product, or I'd never heard about the product and so oh, okay. I'm just gonna read these words. Erikka: I bow to the OGs that had to do that before me, 'cause I never had to, and I don't know what I would've done. Anne: Yeah. Just reading the words doesn't cut it these days. It just, it never really cut it before either, I don't think, but it really has to be something that organically comes from you. And to get to that position and to understand the story, you've gotta know a little bit about the story, and that takes more than a minute. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. Efficient does not mean fast. They are not synonyms. It just means that you have a process down. You know, maybe you are speed reading, you know, you're not necessarily like really digesting and sitting with it for 30 minutes, but you are getting an idea of what the story is, how you might connect with it. And then sometimes I do come in the booth and cold read because for me it, sometimes it's more organic as someone who, who is literally anxious. Like I, I have anxiety and I get in my head and sometimes the cold read ends up being the best one. Anne: But a cold read doesn't always mean that you're not familiar with the words, either -- Erikka: The story. Anne: -- because there's a certain method to speed reading. And actually I just was reading about something called bionic reading the other day. Erikka: Yes. I read that too. Anne: Yes. Very interesting. Where you get certain letters highlighted in the words, because it says your brain -- Erikka: Brain fills them in for you. Anne: Yeah. Your brain is faster than your eyes. So I honestly am looking for that app so that I can put all of my scripts into it because I actually saw it and it worked for me that I was able to process the words faster and comprehend them. That's the biggest thing I think we need is comprehension. And if you can do that faster and more efficient, that's gonna again help you with the balance of managing everything that you have to do in any given day. So we've got your full time job, right? You've got your pretty much full time voiceover, I would say. And then now what else are you struggling with? Or we've got life actually. Right? We've gotta have that time, that downtime so that again, like we were talking about before, where we can refresh and reset. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I have this mantra when I was doing more so music, it was, I had these t-shirts that was like natural born hustler and that's still kind of my thing. I'm definitely of a strong work ethic. I love working, but as I've gotten older and had more things on my plate and been kind of forced into it, that has evolved into now that rest is part of the work. That's my mantra. Anne: You're right. Yeah. Rest is part of the work. I like that. Erikka: Because if you are not rested, you are not bringing your best self to that script. You are not bringing your best self to the booth, and you're not bringing your best self to yourself or your family. Anne: Agreed. Erikka: You've got to recharge. You can't keep using your phone. It's gonna die on you. you're no different. Anne: I love that. And I'll tell you, I was that person back in the day. I remember now I'm like, I feel like here I am, I'm old, but I used to be able to survive on four or five hours of sleep at night. I can't do that anymore. I need to rest and recharge. And my brain has to shut off. That I think is the most energetic part of me is my brain, all the time going. And that also kind of disrupts my sleep once in a while. Erikka: Well, yeah, I definitely have had issues with, with sleep. And the thing is that I had to learn that even being creative and balanced in all aspects of your life, even rest, it doesn't have to be the eight hours of sleep at night. I'm not one that can do the eight hours. Usually like a good night of rest for me is seven. But like I might catch a 15-minute power nap. I have a friend that lives by power naps and he's right. Like there are sleep cycles and you can research this. If you sleep in intervals of like, I think it's like 15, 30, 45 or an hour and a half, like that can give you an, like a boost literally. Where if you sleep, if an have an hour, like you interrupt a sleep cycle and it's not as efficient as if you had slept for 45 minutes, something like that. Anne: Sure. Erikka: And if you get creative about how you're resting, even not sleeping, if there's a way to just rest your brain, like silence, meditating, all those things count. Anne: Can I just say, as I've gotten older, a woman of a certain age, my sleep patterns have changed, where all of a sudden I'm up in the middle of the night for an hour or two. Erikka: Me too. Me too. Anne: So first of all, I'm so thankful and grateful that I have voiceover because I'm not paranoid about getting up, shower, dressed and out the door and fighting the traffic. I don't feel that pressure. So if I'm up for an hour or two in the middle of the night, I don't stress about it. I just am like, okay, that's my sleep pattern. That's just the way it is. If I'm not sleepy, I'm gonna, I don't know. I'm gonna, I don't know, watch some TV until I fall asleep. And so for me, I'm not stressing about the fact that I'm not sleeping and it's funny 'cause my doctor she's like, okay, okay. So I know you're probably stressed out that you have an irregular sleep pattern. I'm like actually no, I'm really fine with it. And hopefully it's the same with you because you have to maybe report to work at a certain time. But if you have flex hours, I mean, that's just an amazing thing that we can just not have to stress about that lack of sleep during the middle of the night or just different sleep patterns. One of my assistants, literally she works during the night and sleeps during the day. So. Erikka: Yeah. You have to learn yourself. Like that's the key to balance too is knowing what really works for you. Like I know me, even if I don't sleep well at night, I'm gonna probably be up before 8:00. My circadian rhythm just does not let me sleep late unless I am like really sick. If I'm in bed at 10:00, you need to check on me. Anne: Yep. Yep. Erikka: Because something is wrong. Anne: Same here. Same here. Erikka: So it's just about knowing, like if you're a night owl and you know that you're most creative and work well at night, then find work, whether that's voiceover or even corporate work, that's gonna match that. So that you can be your best self. Anne: Now, do you have any other, when you wanna come down and you wanna just refresh your creative, do you have any particular things that you do? Do you meditate? Do you exercise? Erikka: Yeah. So, I don't exercise as much as I used to or as much as I want to or should. Anne: Yeah, I know. I think, I think, I think we all go through that. Although I've come back to this point where I'm doing like little power bursts of exercise, because I have to. Like, we're talking like literally five minutes at a time. No, if I'm in between, let's say, students or in between a gig and I get outta my studio. I'm gonna do like my little squats. My arm movements, gonna grab a couple of weights and I'm gonna do like a power set for maybe five minutes. And I find that that really helps me a lot during the day. I feel much stronger now because before I was just sitting on my butt, and it was not doing me any good for sure. Erikka: For me, I had this little sticky note I wrote for myself 'cause I'm a sticky note-aholic and I called it 60 seconds of sunshine. So if I have sessions and meetings and all this stuff going on, I can give myself 60 seconds of sunshine. It gives me the fresh air to reset. It gives literally -- the sun is vitamin D and all these things and you know, it just kind of resets you. I would do that even when I was in the office, like I would just go outside for a minute. Even if I don't have time to really walk or do anything. Just finding little bursts, little things that you can do throughout the day to reset your brain. It does help. Anne: Yeah. I agree, that 60 seconds of sunshine, I like that. I think I'm gonna put that um, a sticky note on mine. That, and I love to just go and take a break and pet the fur babies. Erikka: Yes, oh my goodness. Anne: 'Cause that just releases my stress unbelievably well. Erikka: Absolutely, they're -- because they don't care about anything. They just want love and food and sleep. . Anne: That's it love, food, and sleep. Erikka: Love, food, and sleep. Don't we all just want love, food, and sleep at the end of the day? Anne: It's so true. Really. And that love includes ourself, right? And taking care of ourself and trying to achieve that balance -- where I know myself, I have fallen into this and anybody that knows me again, I am a little bit of a workaholic. And it's really become so important with me because I will say I've, I've encountered some health issues of late that have forced me to say, whoa, Anne. You are sitting too much. You're working too much and you need to really stop and take a look at -- now, I think it's one thing about me. I've always been super, uber focused. I mean, I play hard and I work hard. So I just got too many years during the pandemic of working way too hard and not necessarily playing. So I know myself, the balance has had to come back into play major, especially the older you get. I don't wanna sound like a, an old broken record, but I'll tell you what, it's so much more important as you age. That's that's all I can say. Erikka: You telling -- likewise, I told you, the natural born hustler. I still have some of those hats and shirts. People are wearing them. Like I was, I love working. I got that from my dad. Anne: Me too, me too. Erikka: It's true workaholic. Anne: And my dad too. Erikka: Yeah. However, like you said, especially as you get a little older and you start doing more things, and your body's going to tell you to sit down, and you don't do it voluntarily. It will do it for you. And I just, I'd rather make the choice. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. So I think balance. So then if you had to sum it up, if we're working towards better balance in our lives with our careers and lives, what would be your recommendations? Erikka: Find something every day that gives you joy, because I think joy is something that is a super fuel. Anne: Super balancer. Erikka: Yeah. And if you have some -- I mean it could be something tiny. I mean, lately I've been more on like iced coffee. I don't know why, it's just been, maybe it's getting hotter. I'm usually like I want hot all year long, but the coffee is what gives you the joy in the first thing in the morning, it makes it help so much easier to cope with all the other things throughout the day and give you that balanced perspective of yes, maybe this thing is irritating me or hard right now, but I'm gonna be able to have coffee again tomorrow. Or, you know, whatever it is that brings you, that sort of sense of balance in your life. Prioritization is another huge one. You can't do it all. And if you're workaholics like me and Anne and you wanna do everything -- Anne: You think you can. Erikka: You think you can -- Anne: I found an app. Well, it's not even an app. You can go right online. It's called the Pomodoro technique. So literally I think it was developed and I don't know the name of the guy. Maybe it was Richard Pomodoro, but anyways, his mother had one of those old timers that was shaped like a tomato. And so he was a writer, and he was struggling to keep his focus. And so he decided that he would set the timer and focus only on his writing for a set number of time. So it turns out that 25 minutes was key for him. You do whatever you need to do for 25 minutes. And then for five minutes you take a break ,and then you come back. And you do it again. And you do four cycles of the 25 minutes focusing. And I'll tell you what. I started using it for my own writing. 'cause I write blogs, and I find, I love to write, but write writing takes me forever. And I get very distracted and I'm like, oh, I just got an email. Oops, just got a text. And so I literally this simple thing it's pomodor.app. I think you go there and it's a big timer on a webpage. You click on it to set it to 25 minutes and it does a little timer in your ear when it's all done. So I wear my headphones all day. And so it's literally click that 25 minutes and focus only on that one tab that I'm in or that application that I'm in. And it's really helped me. I have to say. Erikka: That is really a key to balance too, because one of the red flags that you're out of balance is burnout. When you're feeling burned out. And if you kind of iterate that way for yourself and make sure that you're setting aside some time for rest, then you can prevent yourself from burning out. There's a physical exercise sort of thing that approaches it that way called Tabata training where you work out for like four -- Anne: Oh yes, absolutely. Erikka: You work out for a few minutes and you have rest built into the routine. So that's awesome for your brain too. Anne: Absolutely. That's my husband, did Tatabatas in his spin class. Erikka: Yeah. It works. Anne: Exactly. You just, you give it your all for a few minutes, and then you rest and go back and do it again. So yeah. Pomodor, Pomodor technique. Yeah. BOSSes. We all need more balance, and I'm just so excited, Erikka, to have you for this new series. Really our theme is gonna be about balance throughout your career. And we're gonna be talking about all different things and how we can hopefully overall achieve balance and more success in life and in our career. Erikka: So let's do it, balance, baby. Anne: Yeah. So BOSSes, I want you to have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. If you wanna find out more, visit our newest sponsor, 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You can make a huge difference for just a small, quarterly contribution. And I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS like Erikka J and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing weekend. We'll see you next week. Erikka: See you. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

A busy voice actor spends a lot of time in the booth. You're sitting down to edit, sending out auditions, and reaching out to clients, but how are you prioritizing your physical & mental health throughout the work day? Anne & Pilar have the tips and tricks to keep your body strong & your mind sound. From taking breaks throughout the day to stretch, keeping up with your fur babies, and shaking off the stress (literally), you can tackle the day with ease like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Transcript Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring back to the show Pilar Uribe, my very, very special guest cohost. Pilar. Woo-hoo! How are you? Pilar: I'm doing great, Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm amazing. Thank you. Pilar: Anne. Anne: What? Pilar: Anne. Guess what I'm wearing? Guess what I'm wearing today? Anne: Oh my, okay. Um, Hmm. I'm not sure. What are you wearing, Pilar? Are you in the booth right now? Pilar: I am. I am at the booth. Anne: It's something that makes you feel good. Pilar: It does. It does. Because this morning I went walking. I did my 10,000 steps like I do every morning. Anne: Awesome, awesome. Pilar: And then I came home. I showered, I changed and I put on my voz t-shirt and it's really cool. Anne: Awesome! Pilar: I just got in the mail, and it's so much fun. Anne: I am so excited. Guys, yeah. So BOSSes out there, in case you didn't know, in honor of the most amazing Pilar Uribe, we have really cool swag in our BOSS studio store. So you can go to shop BOSS brand gear, and we have a whole line of really cool swag. We got t-shirts, we got mugs, we got accessories. We've got all sorts of things, and they're really, really awesome. I mean, I love that it's combination of your logo and some just amazing pieces of swag that you guys can get. Pilar: I'm really liking that little bag where you can like put your stuff in and carry it around. Anne: The accessory pouch. Pilar: I love it, like you can put anything in there. Anne: We have two different sayings, Pilar, and I'm going to have you say them because I cannot do the justice to the sayings that we have on shirts. Pilar: What? Anne: The voz. Pilar: Okay. Okay. I hear you. It's voz, la voz. Anne: La voz. Pilar: La voz. Anne: La voz. And what else? We've got another logo on the mugs, not just La Voz. Pilar: Right. The other one, right. That is you say Di algo, di algo. Say something. Anne: Di algo. Pilar: Di algo. Di algo, say something. Anne: Did I do that justice? I don't think I did. Pilar: You sure did, yes, absolutely, you did. Anne: Okay. Awesome. Pilar: Yes, completely, yeah. Anne: I love that little mug, man. I'm getting myself a little mug. It's like black with this -- and it's hot pink. I love the hot pink. Pilar: I know. And it gets really cute. Anne: Yeah. The shirts we have in like so many colors, it's amazing. Pilar: The shirt is really, it's really soft, BOSS voces, because you know how like they're sometimes, you get t-shirts, and they're just kind of, they're like sandpaper. They're rough. I don't why like, like sometimes how conference t-shirts are just like rough and you're like, why are you giving me a rough t-shirt? This is not that. This is not that. This is a very soft. Anne: This is quality swag, quality swag. Pilar: Yes. Anne: I love quality swag. Pilar: It's so much fun. And there's like a little notebook. I'm kind of eyeing the notebook now. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I'm kind of thinking I might have to get the notebook and the short sleeve, 'cause I got the long sleeve actually, and the long sleeve is just so cozy. Anne: I'm loving it. Pilar: It's so cold out here -- Anne: I'm loving a short sleeve, and I'm a big v-neck girl. So yeah. Pilar: I know, I saw those. Anne: You guys, make sure you check out the really cool swag. And in addition to our Pilar-themed line of swag, we've also got some really cool Working Voice. What else? 100% BOSS. We've got VO BOSSy. We got some really cool sayings, some really cool logos on some really great merchandise. So make sure you go visit the shop under voboss.com and then shop BOSS brand gear. Pilar: Oo, I just saw something really cute. You've got a little BOSS, onesy. Anne: I do, I do. Pilar: Uh-oh, I might be, I might be shopping soon. You've got some BOSSy pants! Oh, get out of town. Anne: We do have BOSSy pants. Okay. So now that concludes our paid advertisement. Pilar: I'm kind of getting into this. Anne: Actually, we're just so excited about it. So guys, sorry about that. But Pilar, you said something earlier that I want to talk to you about, you said, you know, you've got your 10,000 steps in, you're making sure you're drinking your water, and you're doing all these things to contribute to your wellness, which I think is so important for BOSSes that are working regularly. Or even if you're not working regularly, your health, your wellness is so important and contributes so much to your performance and just your growth in your business. So I think we should have an episode talking about what we do for wellness and some tips and tricks and things that might help you guys in the booth. Pilar: I think it's really important to think about that because even before the pandemic, of course, my life really was about being in the booth because that's where I was most of the time when I wasn't at the radio station or out and about, I was in my booth doing audio books. And, and other things. Anne: And so long hours in the booth. Pilar: Yes. And so, and usually you're, I mean, I have it where I can sit and I can stand. It's not one or the other, but still you're seated. And a lot of the times you're not in the booth, you're editing or you're in the booth and you're doing it all at once. Anne: Oh my goodness, the editing, the editing. Pilar: The editing, which is like -- Anne: Or you're doing the accounting or the marketing and you're sitting, and I will say myself, a woman of a certain age, sitting no longer is like healthy. Not that sitting was ever healthy for me before, but I think my body bounced back if I sat, you know, because I've always worked in technology, but I've also been more mobile when I had to like go into work and walk around. And even though I sat a lot, I was actually a whole lot more active, and the pandemic came and oh my goodness. I was so busy thankfully. And I'm gratefully so busy, but I have been spending a lot of time sitting, and it has not done me any favors, that's for sure. Pilar: No. And, and the thing is, is that becomes cumulative when you stop moving around and working, not necessarily working out, as I say, in a gym, but working your body, working your muscles, moving, stretching. Your body eventually atrophies. So if you're not moving those muscles, you basically, just you kind of constrict. And we are in the business of expanding for as long as we can. So we, you want to stretch -- Anne: Expanding my body maybe after the pandemic. Pilar: Well, right. That's yes. I agree. I've, I have gained 10 pounds. Anne: Maybe not in a good way, but yeah, that, the pandemic has kind of wreaked havoc with my health a little bit, in a good way, because I've been working so much, but in a bad way, because again, I've been working so much. So I need to consciously take time out to make sure that I am taking care of my health, and I will say kudos and congrats to all those people out there, which I know a number of people who actually use the pandemic to get really into shape and take a challenge so that they can be the best that they can be. And I just unfortunately was not one of them. I kind of went the other way, kind of sitting a little too much and working a little too much. But I'm coming full circle because I've made a considerable investment in getting started and more conscious, being more conscious about my health, walking. Of course, the last time I walked, I tore my sciatica muscle. So that was a thing. So now I've, I've got a, you know, an elliptical machine, which is helping me to not necessarily destroy that muscle. I have a little less impact, although I'm not walking outside as much anymore, which I miss. But that's become an important part of me being healthy, not just physically, but mentally. Pilar: Yeah, and I think you really have to factor into your day some kind of movement and some kind of sustained movement, whether it's the elliptical or it's a stationary bike or it's walking, or if you're lucky enough to live in warm weather, swimming like in the summer months, but you have to keep the heart rate up in some way, shape or form. I do it by -- now, It's still pretty cold out here, but in the summer months, I hope to start swimming. And for now what I'm doing is I'm walking. And I make sure that I have 10,000 steps, that every day I walk my 10,000 steps. Anne: That's awesome, yep. Pilar: And so on an iPhone they have, and there are multiple apps. Anne: I know on my iPhone, I think it, by default, it has a whole health thing where it tracks you. And I just bought a new Apple Watch, which is really awesome. So it will track everything that I want and actually connect up to my smart fitness machine, my elliptical, it will track everything there, how many steps, how many calories I've burned, what my heart rate is and all of those wonderful, healthy things, which I want to know, or I might look at my watch at, when I'm having a stressful day, and then go, woo my heart rate. Make sure that it's, that it's good. But also every hour, it has that little hepatic tap that tells me I need to stand up, which is really important for me. And I like you, I have a standing desk. I'm assuming you have a standing desk, as you said you can do both. I have a standing desk. So if I'm not in my booth, I can actually raise it up and stand or I can sit, which has been a great, great help for me. Pilar: Yeah. Well I have the old stand and then bring the stool in. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so I'm very lucky. A VO person actually fit it in for me in my booth. It's a movable arm, and it's really cool 'cause you can just, yeah, you can adjust the mic going up and down. So when I want to sit, I adjust the mic -- Anne: The boom arm. Yep. Pilar: Yeah, it's a boom arm. And I mean, I definitely one day, 'cause they're, they're kind of expensive, but the desks are really helpful for outside when I'm editing, because then I don't have to be standing and sitting. But whatever it is that you do, whatever it is that you decide to do, make sure that you do it for at least 20, 30 minutes a day, get out and about, move around if you can every hour, because you really don't want to be sitting in one place. It's just not good for the body. I mean, on all levels. And stretching really, really helps. I mean, that's one thing 'cause I, I used to suffer from sciatica as well. So I understand the pain and the discomfort and -- Anne: Sciatica comes out of nowhere some days. Pilar: Oh, I know, I know it's awful. Anne: It's like women of a certain age, not just women, but I'm just saying I never experienced sciatica. And now all of a sudden, it came on, and then it seemed to never go away, and then it went away, but then it came back. And so that is something that I struggle with, and it's very, very tough to stretch that, but it is important that I stretch every day to help that because you know, I don't want to be uncomfortable. First of all, I don't want to render myself, you know, unable to feel comfortable, and then try to go into my booth and perform. I mean, that is just something that is not a good thing. So having those conscious things that you're doing to maintain wellness, not just, and we had spoken about vocal wellness in a previous episode, and now we're extending it to physical wellness, and a mental wellness is also something that I think is super important for us. And something that I've mentioned multiple times on the podcast, your mental health is so important, so that you're in your best performance mode. PIlar: There's so many things that you can do to help yourself because a lot of times people say, oh, I don't know what to do. It can be something as simple as closing your eyes for a minute and just breathing in, you just like breathing in one, breathing in -- breathing out two, breathing in three, breathing out four. And you go all the way up to 10, and then you come back down, and let's say, you're stressed and you're trying to get a voice or a feeling, you're trying to finish a sentence or you're stuttering. Which sometimes it's like, I will just so trip over myself. And I literally just take a step back, I take off my headphones and I sit on the floor and I just breathe. And then all of a sudden it's like, I don't know where I was, but I disconnected from that stressful moment. And then I can just come back to the work. That helps me so much. I kind of envision it like, and I may have mentioned this before, like when a dog turns around three times. If you turn around three times, let's say you're really, really stressed or you're, you're in a bad mood or whatever, you turn around three times and you can't really remember what it was that feeling because it's like, you're just kind of just, just shook it out of yourself. So it's like shaking that off. That helps me a lot. Something that helps me as well, let's say when I want to just -- stress relievers. Because the other thing that we don't realize is that when we're sitting at a desk, we're not always standing with our backs straight. We might be hunched over. We might be, our spine is in a C. We've got our hands in a certain way. And then you wonder why your hand hurts because you've just been like gripping the mouse like there's no tomorrow. So there's so many things that we don't even realize as the day goes by. So to get up every hour to breathe, to turn around, to do a little bit of what I described was just a little teensy weensy part of meditation, or just to close your eyes for a minute will help get you through the day without as much stress. And what they've discovered in studies is that meditation -- and meditation can be as simple as what we just did. And it can be just something to close, just closing your eyes and sitting, or it can be lying down -- is a natural reliever for cortisol. Cortisol just makes you that much more stress. When you have cortisol in your system, it's like you're on fire, and you're all your muscles are just clenching. And so meditation is actually a natural reliever of that. So it could be something as simple as just reading in a book, reading aloud, reading a poem, just breathing in and out, all those little teensy tips and tricks throughout the day can help you. And that's important because we do spend a lot of time in our booths, in our rooms. It can be a really tight space. It can be a big space, and in one position, and you want to try to relieve that. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So Anne, tell me what you do to relieve your stress on any given day. Do you jump out of bed? Do you wake up, do you read a little bit? What do you do? Anne: So for me, I, I actually will -- I don't jump out of bed. I have a compression machine, a compression machine, which actually moves fluid in my body to where it's supposed to go because I've had some, just some lingering issues from back in the day when I was taking some medication. And so I have to get rid of excess fluid in my body, through my lymph nodes. So, and what's really cool is it's actually kind of, kind of healthy anyways, if I didn't need to move that fluid, it just -- it basically moves everything where it needs to be. That's the first thing I'll do in the morning for about 20 minutes. And that really makes me feel a whole lot better when I get up out of bed, that now I've had all of the necessary fluids moved to my lymph nodes that need to be so that my body can take care of what it needs to take care of for the day. While I'm doing that, it's a really good time to just kind of meditate and really think back on what -- well, I like to have time to think about what I'm grateful for and I always want to make sure I do that. You know, not to get too much of that, but I always have to say what I'm grateful for every day, because I just feel like that reaffirms how lucky I am. And it starts my day in a positive note. So it's kind of like meditation and then -- but not necessarily thinking about nothing. I'm actually thinking about what I'm grateful for, which really puts me in a positive note for the day to get going. And then I will, I am guilty of liking coffee, so I will have a cup of coffee. However, I have no problem drinking as much water. As a matter of fact, I might drink more water than it's necessary, but I, at least I start off with my 33-ounce alkaline water from Kirkland. And so I will chase my coffee or within sips of coffee, I will take sips of water as well, especially if I've voice over to work to do, I'll -- I probably won't drink coffee. If I have voiceover work to do, I will almost definitely hydrate in the booth. And I also wear my watch so that it reminds me to stand up every hour. And out in the garage, I have an elliptical and a Peloton, and my husband, believe it or not, who used to teach back in the day, back in the 80s, he used to teach step, he just got to step. So interesting, he's going to be stepping beside me now while I'm doing my elliptical. So that'll be fun in our garage. And I'm so happy that we set that up in the garage. And we did that during the pandemic because we weren't able to go to a gym at the time. And the two of us were working like crazy people and sitting a lot, and it did not do us any favors. And my husband for all the, all the people that know my husband, he's a really good cook. So the cook combination with the sitting a lot, I gained my pandemic weight for sure, but we're getting ourselves back on track. So I'm happy about that. Pilar: Well, you just mentioned something that I think is really important is the gratitude. I do the gratitude list at night mentally. Some people write it out, and I think it's really important because we take a lot sometimes -- at least I do. I can't speak for everyone, but sometimes I take things for granted. So I have to remember and be grateful that I have a roof over my head. I have food in my refrigerator. I have car that I can drive to go to my sessions, that I have money to pay for my food. That I have a cat who loves me. Well, that's questionable. But, um, he does, it's on his terms. And I think it's really important because when you're in gratitude, you're less likely to be in resentment over -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- I didn't get this job. Why didn't they call me? Or I'm not as far as I should be -- all thoughts that every single person on the planet, if you're a working voice actor has had. Whether we want to admit it or not, we do because we're human. And so having gratitude, I just think is so important. Even if it's the little things, it's like, oh, I got a callback. Yeah, I didn't get the job, but guess what? They heard me and they wanted to hear me again. How awesome is that? So it's like being grateful for everything, whether the outcomes are the way you wanted them or not what you were expecting. I think that that's really important. Anne: I was going to say mental health, right? As we're being grateful. I think that throughout the day, we have to also try to revisit at some point, if we need to. Because during the day, the online social media events of the day can start to stress you out. And I think you need to take those breaks and maybe think again about being grateful or why you're grateful. I know there are times I'll read something in social media, and it will just fire me up. I can't imagine, like if I were to look at my watch and see my heart rate, sometimes my heart rate has gone up from some of the posts that I see online. I've tried really hard to back away a little bit from that, because I know that's not necessarily productive for me because I don't want to spend my day in that state where I have an elevated heart rate because I'm frustrated or I saw something that somebody posted that I, I just am like, I can't believe I just saw that. And so I think that the mental health and the stress of the day, we need to get up and shake it out. And I wanted to say, for sure, our fur babies. My cats are a huge part of my mental wellbeing. A lot of times I'll just go and play with them. That is like, oh, I need a kitty break. So for me, I'm like, I need a kitty break. Where's my kitty? And I'll just go and hug them. And you know, what's so interesting, Pilar? Our cats are so, so happy. For the past two and a half years since we've had to be home, I cannot tell you how happy the studio cats are. I mean, as a matter of fact, we brought them to the vet, and each one of them, the vet is like, their blood work is immaculate. Like they are some of the healthiest cats I have seen. And of course, you know, I'm all proud. And I'm like, well, you know, it's because we take really good care of them, and we play with them. And the funny thing is, is I think that's a part of their health too and our health. So we can not only help our health, but our animals' health to take a walk, play with the animals. And that's been a big difference from me, even when growing up, I've always had cats, but I've really like excelled at playing with my cats because it's good for them. And it's good for me. You know, it keeps them in shape. It keeps their mental -- they're hunters, right? So we have to play with them and have them hunt things. And so I've, I've actually understood my animals a whole lot more since this pandemic, because I've really taken the time to use them for good mental health for me and a good studio cat hug, there's nothing better. Oh. Outside of my Jerry, but you know. Pilar: I concur, is all I can say because mine, my cat really has so many duties besides which I am on hand and foot catering to him, you know? 'Cause it's always, it's always about him. It's not about me. It's I just, you know, of course, as I've said -- Anne: We're just here to serve them. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. I just, I just pay the rent for him. Anne: Yup. Pilar: You know, he sits there and he looks at me. And so I, when I have stuff that I have to work on, voice acting, I will do my, my characters. I will try them on him, and he'll look at me, and it's perfect. Yeah. I have a great time doing it. Anne: Yes, they're the best audience for characters. And it's funny because people who aren't even voice actors, right, when we speak in our, in our pet voice, don't we always go up into this elevated character voice. Oh my, who's your good kitty. We always go into these different character voices talking to the cats. Pilar: It's the funniest thing. I have gotten more work when I go into my speaking to Paco voice on an audition. It is, it astounds me because I sit there and go, you know, [Spanish gibberish] it's like, I don't know what the hell that is, but I'm just saying it. And yeah, that gets me work. So I'm like, yeah, I just -- Anne: There you go. He even gets you work, Paco even gets you to work. I love it. Pilar: He even gets me work. So he's, he's earning his supper. Anne: And you know, what's so cool? Not even are they just great sounding boards for, for your characters, my cats, they have their own Facebook page. They have their own Instagram page. So I connect with people through my cats. So my cats are so darn cute. Right? Everybody's cats are so cute. It's kind of a talking point. Who doesn't love to see pictures of fur babies on the internet? I mean, it's the one thing that's not political. It's not, right, It's not going to make anybody angry unless you're looking at things that, you know, we don't want to see happen to animals like abuse, but anybody I know can't resist a kitten photo or a puppy photo or any kind of animal, really. I think that that's, that contributes to the mental health and wellness of, of everybody, ven on the internet. Pilar: you know, I've resisted having Paco as his separate page. I'm getting a little envious of people who have a separate page for their animals. And I'm thinking I might have to do that because that's the other thing, I take pictures of him all day long. I just put a picture on my Instagram page, because I just, I couldn't stand it. And I just, I get, I like, I want everyone to see what he's doing, the cuteness. Anne: And I probably have, I mean, honestly, all right, here. I'm just going to tell you, Pilar, between you and I. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I probably have -- and the rest of the world listening -- I probably have 50,000 pictures of my cats because I've taken pictures of them when they were little. We got them as kittens and that's like, oh my gosh, they're so darn cute. And there's three of them. So you know what I mean? Like, so it's triple. Pilar: It's one times three, right? Exactly. Because you have to take pictures of all of them. Yeah. I totally get it. Anne: I'm not ashamed, but I will admit that I probably do have about 50,000. Now, granted right now I don't have any children. So they, they kind of like, they're my children, my fur babies. Pilar: iCloud storage must love you. Anne: Well, I pay for extra of course, but they're so darn cute. Pilar: Don't we all? Anne: They just make me happy. And I think that anyone that's looking for wellness, if they can and they're animal lovers, I think that is such a huge contributor to the biggest stress reliever. The biggest unconditional love happy thing that you can do for yourself and your business. I'm just saying, yes, get a kitty, get a little kitten. Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Or -- I don't want to say don't, you know, I'm not, I'm also, I love -- Pilar: Or a dog, or a dog. Anne: Yes, exactly. Pilar: I used to have a dog and a cat. Anne: Or a goat, or a goat. Pilar: Or a goat. Anne: Or a horse, how about a horse? Pilar: It's hard to sleep with a horse in your bed. So that would be a little bit difficult. Anne: Or a teacup pig. I mean, I've always wanted one of those, honestly. Pilar: Wow. Anne: Pigs are cute. Pilar Okay. Yeah, they are cute. Anne: They're adorable. So anyways, yeah, fur babies, fur babies are good. So I think that, yes, it's so, so important that we consider our wellness. And I think sometimes though it takes being, because we're so invested -- this is me to a T, right? I get so focused. I get so involved in my work and yes, I have admitted, I'm probably, I work more than I should. And with that, it's more important than ever, right, that I take time out to take care of myself. And you don't want to have something crazy happen to you before you stop and think about your health. You know, you don't want to have a health event happen, and I've had a health event happen. And I should know, I feel like I should know more than any other time in my life. I should be so aware of my health, but sometimes I just get carried away and get so involved, and the stress starts getting to me, and you know, it's time to stop and shake it out. Pet your cat, have a little gratitude, go for a walk, get that exercise in there. And yeah, I have a balance, have a balance to career. Pilar: I think that that is all so important because what you're doing even while you're working and even if you're -- Anne: Even if you love what you do, right? Pilar: Even if you love what you do, even if you're really busy, you want to have habits that are going to be healthy habits that are preventative. Anne: Yeah, agreed. Pilar: So you don't have to sit there and be like -- I, I was at a studio the other day and the voiceover actor came out and he'd been drinking Diet Coke in the studio. And then he said, oh, I'm going to just take a couple of extras Diet Cokes. This was a very, very tall, very large man. And I thought he drank at least three in the studio, and he's going to drink three more Diet Cokes? And I was like, wow, if you do that year after year after year, what's that going to do to your body as, as a cumulative effect? Whereas drinking tons of water, let's say, instead of that, and, and meditating, and walking, and having these healthy habits is insurance towards the future. So you want to be healthy for as long as you possibly can and have a healthy voice. And so you want, you want to think about what you're putting into your body and what, and the thoughts that you're thinking and how you're waking up in the morning. So I think everything that we've talked about today is just, is super important as moving forward into living a healthy life in voiceover. Anne: And you know, what else? I think this has been a great discussion. You know, what else can help is by helping others, giving back. And I really, I'm a big believer in that. You know, I've always, always tried to, when I can give back, give back to my community, give back to people in need. So, and I really believe that giving back is such an important part. And one of our newest sponsors has given us a opportunity, an opportunity to contribute to make a difference and to give back to the communities that give to us. And that organization is 100voiceswhocare.org, and you can actually contribute and make a big difference. 'Cause I know sometimes it's like, I feel like I don't have a lot to contribute, and how can I really make a difference? Well, the really cool thing about this organization is we get a minimum of 100 people together, all donating, literally just $100 a quarter. So that's like $33.33 a month. And if you combine that together for a quarter with 100 voices, that's $10,000 that can be given to a community or an organization in need. And that is a wonderful, wonderful feeling. So you guys can find out more by visiting 100voiceswhocare.org, and you can make a difference for sure. I'd also like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that allows Pilar and I to have these wonderful conversations every week. You guys can be BOSSes, find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Thank you, everyone. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

​​This week, the script is flipped! Pilar is interviewing Anne on her specialty: E-Learning, Corporate Narration, and more. Anne shares her secrets for keeping listeners' attention during long scripts + tips on how to have an exciting read for corporate copy. Although many consider these scripts dull, Anne argues that it's the opposite. Putting yourself in the shoes of your favorite teacher or favorite CEO will give you the passion you need to make these jobs soar like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Both: Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza (I'm Pilar Uribe --) Anne: Hey! Pilar: And today, I'm so excited to bring back your favorite host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Pilar. Pilar: Yes, Anne? Anne: Pilar, what's happening here? Pilar: Well, I'm taking over hosting duties today. Anne: You are? Pilar: I am. Anne: Um, okay. What, okay, so what are we talking about, Pilar, today? Pilar: Well, I want to know, I want to know about corporate narration. I want to know how you got into the business because that's something that I have not done very much of. My world is all about commercials and video games and auditioning, and I've done audio books, but I don't know very much about corporate narration or e-learning. And I would like to know how you got into that end of the business. Anne: First of all, thank you. I love corporate narration. I love talking about it. Any kind of narration, actually, I'm geekily excited by it. So. Pilar: Geekily excited about it. Anne: Geekily excited about it. Pilar: I will remember that. Anne: And I'm going to say I have corporate experience after I graduated -- for those that don't know, I have a degree in computer graphics engineering. And so when I graduated college, I was an engineer for a bio-mechanical firm and designed hip and knee prosthetics. And that was a really cool job. I really loved that. I did that for six years. If you know me and you know that I do medical narration, you'll know that's one of the reasons why I love doing medical narration. So I did not start off in voiceover all of my life, out of the womb. I did have some corporate experience and loved my experience in the corporate world. I also consulted after I got into education. So I do have a few years of being in the corporate world and working in that space and understanding what corporate culture is. And the cool thing is, is that now that I work for myself, I can work for a lot of different companies and not worry necessarily about being thought of as you know, somebody who just jumps from company to company, which at the time when I was doing that, it was not something that corporations looked fondly upon. It was one of those things where loyalty was everything to the company. And it was nice if you worked for a company for a good amount of time before you jumped ship. That was always kind of left for like, oh, that person's just out for money and not necessarily out for their corporate experience or education. But anyways, I digress into that. But my experience with the corporate world was it's similar in a way of our industry where we're really in competition with one another. Although we don't really say that we are, but we are. And, and in the corporate world, I think in a company, you're fighting for rank within the company. And that to me was it was, it was the way it worked, but it was tiring to me. And for me, I just loved doing the job and I loved sharing my knowledge, which is why I ultimately ended up getting up into education because I love to share. I get excited. I get geekily excited about, you know, my job and I would share things ,and that didn't always work out for me in the corporate world. So doing voiceover in corporate narration is the way that I win. If that's just a simple way to put it is a way that I can win at every single company that I work for without necessarily having to go to a meeting where I'm fighting for, I'm fighting for that. And I just, I love, I understand the culture. I understand how to speak the corporate language. And I think that's an important part of being a voice for a company to be able to elevate their brand. Pilar: Yeah. That's a really good point that you make, because as we've said before, we are not just voice actors, we are the business. And so you have to be able to navigate in the world of corporate speak -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- in order to survive and to thrive. So let me ask you this, Anne, what was that moment, that moment that triggered you to say and to think, Ooh, I could like this idea of doing voice acting? Anne: Well, I had since moved on from my corporate job into education, but interestingly enough, it was a really interesting transition because I did not go on payroll as a teacher. I went on payroll as a staff member, and then ultimately got my certifications and was able to teach as well, but I wasn't a full-time teacher. And so the cool thing is, is that I got to teach when I wanted, teach all different types of elective classes in technology, which there goes my, my love for technology, as well as work as a staff member and actually learn the technology and direct people. So it was kind of a really great combination of corporate and education at the same time. And I was installing phone systems for other campuses and for non-profit organizations and state and county agencies in the state of New Jersey. And after the installation of the phones, people would always need to record their welcome greeting in the phone tree. And nobody really wanted to do that. And so they would have me do it as part of the job. And that's really where my voiceover started because I loved being able to do the voice, be the phone voice. And people told me I was good at it. So they said, you should think about doing something like this for a career or kind of as a side hustle. And that's where that whole thing began. And I looked into it, I got training, I got a demo, started working part-time, and really fell in love with voiceover. And then after my long career in education, after about 20 years, I really was kind of done with snow in the state of New Jersey where I was, and I was ready for a change. The worst thing for a person loved my personality is to be stagnant and not change and not learn. I'm always wanting to learn new things. I'm always wanting to grow. And I felt like I hadn't grown much in the past few years in my position there. And I just was wanting really badly to try something new. And I thought working for myself and being an entrepreneur and doing something that I loved would be a really cool thing to do. So I took a leap of faith and started working full-time in voiceover and learned a whole lot, I'll tell ya, still learning. So it's one of the things that I truly, truly love. I don't think I would ever work for anybody again, even though we are temporarily working for people when we do voiceover. And that's kind of the thought is that whether you're doing a commercial or you doing a narration, you're working for a company who has a product that you are the voice of, and that you are typically selling that product and elevating that product's brand through your voice. And so you are working for a bit with, for companies and I love the challenge of that. Pilar: Sure. So you, you said something that I just want to reiterate for the VO BOSSes out there, working for myself and an entrepreneur. Because I think we really, we do forget that when we are in the midst of our auditions or we're in the midst of learning, that we are our own little bandstand and we have to go forth into the world as creators, yes, but as business people. And I think that that's really important. So I'd love for you to expand on that a little bit, because I -- Anne: It's very important. Pilar: -- think we just, we get too caught up in this, did I get the audition or didn't I, and it's not just about that. It's not really just about the marketing. It's not just about the auditions. It's not just about paying taxes. It's being a really well-rounded person who is in the service industry. So we are providing a service, and we are business people. Anne: Yeah. I think it's so, so important. I mean, so many times people will say, you know, I really enjoyed doing these character voices, and I really want to get into the voiceover industry. And the first thing I'm always saying is that it really is so much more than just going in a studio and being the voice. You are running in an enterprise, really, you're wearing all the hats. And for me, that challenge is just as exciting as the voiceover challenge, to be quite honest. How can I build my business? How can I grow my business and how can I get this job? And so it becomes, to me, it becomes a challenge. I think all my life, I'm that person who gets excited when I have a challenge, and I want to be able to solve problems. It's might be my, that engineer mind of mine. It all comes together when I think about it. When I was younger, I was teaching my dolls. And then, you know, I got into engineering because I love solving problems. And so it kind of just follows me throughout my whole life, where I feel being an entrepreneur is really just challenges that you're presented with and a place where you can continue to grow and grow and grow if you rise up to those challenges, and you're willing to fail a little bit and learn, and then move in another direction and then try that. So that whole entrepreneur thing I just love, but it's scary. It's really scary. And it's funny because I think that I've grown to the point where this is it, I'm good. You know what I mean? I'm doing well. I feel like I'm successful in everything that I'm doing, but I always want to keep adding and growing more. And it's probably one of the reasons why I probably work a little too much, but I'm looking for that next step and how am I going to get there? And a lot of that still takes courage, and it's still really scary, when you start employing people and shifting control out of your hands, into their hands to help grow the business. I think that's even scarier than when I started. And so I continually am scared and inching my way in this direction or that direction to see if I can have a success. And if I have a success, okay, where's the next step? How can I keep climbing up that mountain? So I don't think I'm ever quite at that place where -- I mean, I feel successful, but I can always grow. Pilar: Yeah. And I think it's important too, that when we are in fear of something, obviously we don't want it to paralyze us. Anne: Right. Pilar: It also can catapult us to the next step. Anne: Yeah, great point. Pilar: So being scared of something is not a bad thing, because then that means that you're taking on more responsibility by employing other people. So that's actually a good thing. And because you continue to grow, and you bring these people on to grow as well. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So when you became an entrepreneur, you were talking about how you started in the business in IVR. So for those people who don't know what that is, it means interactive voice response. So it is the voice that you hear "for English press one. Para español, pressione el número uno." That's how I learned. Anne: Which I would hire you for because you do that so well. If I have to speak that one line of Spanish, it's sad. So I have like, I have a great person I know who could say that prompt for you. Pilar: Okay, done. Anne: Done. Pilar: Done. So you're coming from this background of education and technology. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So what makes you think, ooh, I could do this corporate narration. And how did you branch out then into e-learning for example? What propelled you to move into those areas, and explain the difference as well? Anne: I think for me, they're similar. When I started, it's a large market, the corporate market, because as I always say, there's 30.4 million registered companies in the US, and the, all of those companies have a service or a product that they want to tell the story. And they probably all have a website that has a video or a YouTube channel that requires a voice to explain what that service or product does. And I think because of the sheer size of that market, that's where a lot of the jobs in my early years kind of came from. And actually today, I mean, that's a large majority of what I do. I love the fact that I've had the corporate experience to understand the corporate speak. There is corporate speak pretty much in every piece of corporate copy that you look at. And if you understand that, if you understand where you can start driving a story from, that helps you to voice it more effectively. I think in the beginning, I started doing these jobs for companies that I didn't think much about in the beginning, but as I started to do more and more of them, of course, I wanted to grow and improve. Right? I didn't want to just be a narrator that would read the words off the page. It really became to me like, how can I tell this story? Because I know that this company has a deeper meaning behind it. When I did work out of college, when I worked at the orthopedic company that I started with, I was employee number 206. And as employee number 206. And it's funny how I just remember that to this very day, 206 -- I loved the product, I believed in the company. I love the product. And I was ecstatic that this product that I had a hand in creating would help people to walk again. And for me, oh, that was the passion. And that was when I would go to meetings and we would discuss new products and that sort of thing. And some of the meetings became like hours long, not because we were discussing products, but because people were fighting with their egos to say, I did this product, or this product is not where it should be because of this person. I just got really frustrated, and I'm like, can't we all just love what we're doing and be joyful and share in it? And that was probably a young, naive sort of a way to look at it. But I still remember the joy and the excitement of being a part of creating something that could help people. And that's the attitude that I take with every corporate project, because every person who ever started a company -- look at us, right? We have our own companies. We are entrepreneurs. We believe in the product. We believe that we can be a great voice and make a difference and affect others. Well, so does every company founder. I want to believe in the good of that, right? Companies are founded for good reasons. They have a product that can help someone, that can make their jobs easier, make them feel better about themselves. And that is the principle of what I drive the emotional nuanced read or thought process of a corporate narration. And that's something so very different than just reading a mission statement. It's understanding that I am a part of this company, and this company has a passion for their product and their services that they're putting out there to help people. And if I believe in that, I can voice that effectively. Pilar: That's so important what you just said, Anne, and I think we don't do that enough. I mean, I can speak for myself only -- is when we are, even in an audition -- because getting the job great. Wonderful. But even in audition, if you put yourself in the shoes of, I am part of this company, as I'm describing this product, and I'm fighting for this product to get released instead of, oh, you know, I'm just reading copy -- that will make a difference. That will make a difference in what you're feeling and ultimately what you are communicating through your voice. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: I think that's super, super important. Yeah. So tell me the cousin, the second or the third cousin or the sister? Anne: The e-learning. Ah, yes. Well, okay. So being in the education, starting off as a small child, as we've mentioned before in the podcast, teaching my dolls and being in education, even though I was on payroll as staff, I still taught classes, and I still taught classes at night. I taught adult continuing ed. I taught college. I was adjunct professor, and I just have a love for sharing, for sharing my knowledge with others. And I think that that again is a big reason as to why I do e-learning quite a bit, and I'll do corporate e-learning because I was a corporate trainer as well as training for students for many, many years. And so the e-learning industry, so again, if you're thinking e-learning, I always divide it up into two different categories. You've got educational e-learning, academic e-learning, and then you've got corporate training, and there are two very different buyers. Understanding the educational market, I know that the academic e-learning it's noble, it's wonderful, it's honorable. And I'm proud to be a part of that or have been a part of that. But unfortunately, budgets, aren't always there. Academic institutions, aren't saying, oh, let me pay Anne Ganguzza $10,000 to voice this curriculum. It's just, they don't have necessarily that type of resource typically. And so it's harder to do that type of e-learning. However, it's, it's very necessary. And I do believe just like in corporate, in e-learning you've got to be a passionate teacher. I mean, if you think back to who your favorite teacher is, what were the qualities of that teacher? You know, I think a lot of times people will tell me they were passionate about their topic. They were excited, they were enthusiastic, and they really, they wanted me to learn. And that's again a type of emotion and nuance that you can put behind any e-learning copy that you read and that you voice. And the other aspect, or the other wing is not just academic e-learning, but corporate learning or corporate training. And the cool thing about corporate training is again, you've got the 30.4 million registered companies that probably train their employees. And if they don't train their employees, they also train or they, most of them do train their employees, right, they also train people on their product. So you've got like kind of an internal facing training as well as an external facing training that they do on their products. And so again, that is a huge, huge market. And I think that for that market, again, you've got to be that great teacher. It can't be that person that is reading the material. However, that's what we've done, a lot of us for many, many years is simply read academic material. And the way I look at it is some people will pay for that. Nobody will not pay you for reading the material, but I think there's other types of clients that will pay you for a really engaged read as a great teacher. You've got to keep people entertained for longer than a minute, right? That's one of the biggest differences between commercial or promo. I mean, you're doing this for more than a minute. And with today's attention spans, you have to really work hard to keep people's attention and focus, because there's so many distractions like, oh, look it, I just got it. Just got a text. Oh. And so your voice has to be that you like the Pied Piper of, of e-learning. Your voice has to be audibly raised and in the ear of your listener, and you need to make it easy and engaging for them to learn from you. Pilar: Yeah. And so important. What you're saying about being in the moment while you're reading because -- Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: -- you are providing as the voice over actor, you are providing a service to the person who's listening because they are being paid to learn. So it behooves them to learn from what you're saying. So you have to really engage the person who's on the other side of those headphones, you know, that that's listening to you because you want them to do better because that's basically why you're there in the first place. And so going back to that whole idea of being part of the company, part of the training, I think helps a lot when you're in the, the reading of the copy. Anne: And that's where the acting comes in too, right? Because you can't just read the words off the page. You're the one that's making them come alive. So you need to kind of understand what those words are and to be able to tell the story. And there's a story in corporate narration, as much as there's a story in teaching, right? We learn through stories, easiest through stories. And so even if the corporate copy or the e-learning copy doesn't necessarily tell a story directly, there's an underlying introduction, main topic, topic switch, crescendo, I always call it a crescendo, a learning moment, right. where the light bulb goes off, and then it's wrapped up in a nice little conclusion. So every piece of copy that's written like that, you have to dissect the copy and understand those moments, understand those crescendos, understand the purpose, the introduction, the wrap-up so that you can tell that story effectively. It's so much more than just reading. It's so much more than that. Pilar: It's like a little three act play. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Pilar: I mean, it goes back to Chekov, it goes back to Shakespeare. I mean, you're basically telling a story. It's not about the words. It's about how effectively can you tell this story so the person on the other end goes, oh, okay, that person's making a great point and will retain that at information. Anne: And I'm so passionate about that. It's interesting that I have people who just never thought of it that way. And, and the thing of it is, is I'm going to be real here. I think probably everyone does narration, whether they admit it or not. It's the non-glamorous part of voiceover or it's always been perceived as, oh yeah. And I also do e-learning or I also do a little bit of narration, but the big draw is the, I'm the voice of this game or this commercial. And I think that's amazing. That's just, I'm not discounting any of that. And that's where I think most people, when they get into voiceover, that's the stars in their eyes, kind of, you know, Hollywood -- Pilar: The red carpet experience. Anne: It's the Hollywood experience of a voiceover, but I'll tell you what, the narration and the e-learning, and that's, that's like, I call it like the bread and butter that pays the bills in the meantime. And so there are so many people I think that can elevate their narration game or their e-learning game if they choose to, because we can all be better storytellers. We can all improve. I mean, all of our lives, it's just, it's a mission for me as a, as a lifelong learner -- I think teachers are always lifelong learners because a lot of times they're asking you to teach something that you don't necessarily know. So for me, especially with technology, it was always like, well, learn it by the seat of my pants and then teach it. Pilar: And that's how you would retain it. That's how, that's the best way to retain it. Anne: And that's how you learn, right, teach -- Pilar: Teach someone else. Anne: Yeah, exactly. It's one of the ways you learn, but it's an amazing thing to be able to share in joy your knowledge, whether you're sharing in the passion of a product, of a company as a part of that company, as a part of a greater whole to help people. And again, if you hold that emotion in your heart, as you're telling a corporate story, it does wonders for the effectiveness of it. And the same thing with teaching, the same thing with e-learning. And they're both huge, huge markets in this industry. And I think everyone, everyone needs to take the narration maybe more seriously than just, oh, let me just prettily read these words. I mean, I was always the teacher that said, hey, look, I am not going to say that you won't get paid to read those words pretty. I would never say that. However, if you want to go from good to great or amazing and really capture your audience, we can always learn. We can always learn to tell the story better. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you heard it here first. This is the e-learning and corporate narration guru you have been listening to, Anne Ganguzza. I want to do my demo with you now, so, there you go. Anne: Pilar. Thank you. First of all, thanks so much for interviewing me. I mean, I've never had the tables turned on me like that. So thank you for being the first -- and talking with me about something that I clearly love. Pilar: Well, was it, to me, it's really evident how passionate you are and it makes me excited. It makes me want to go out and move that muscle, you know? Because I do the short sprinting, and, and e-learning and corporate narration they're marathons. That's the marathon. So you have to learn the pace yourself, and that's really important to have as a skill. Anne: Well, thank you, Pilar, really. I'm always happy to share my passion as a coach, as a voice artist, as a podcast host. Thanks so much for talking to me about it. This just flew by actually. Pilar: And thanks for letting me interview you. This was fun. Not like you had a choice, right? Anne: Wait, now I have to end the podcast by saying, I want to give a huge shout-out because I like to have a huge impact, and I like to make a difference. You can also make a difference, and if you've ever wanted to donate to a cause that's close to your heart and make a difference, you can do so. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and you too can make a difference. Also great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love talking to my BOSSes and my BOSS, Pilar, and Pilar, thank you for talking to me. Um, you guys can find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Ciao, ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

After holding the first ever #VOBOSS Bilingual Audition Challenge, Anne & Pilar welcome the winners onto the show. Joe Lewis, Milena Benefiel, and Ramesh Mahtani share the process behind their winning entry, what stood out to Anne & Pilar when judging the contest as well as what it means to be a bilingual voice talent in today's industry. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey, hey. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today we have a very, very special episode planned for you. Not only am I here with my awesome special guest co-host Pilar Uribe -- woohoo Pilar! Pilar: Hi, Anne. Anne: Thanks for being here. We are so honored to be here with our VO BOSS bilingual audition challenge winners. So a huge welcome to our English audition winner, Joe Lewis. Yay! Joe: Hello. Ramesh: Hello, Joe. Anne: And our Spanish audition winner -- Pilar: Milena Benefiel. Anne: Yay! Hey Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: And then our best English and Spanish audition, Ramesh Mahtani. Yay! So first of all, congratulations, everybody, on your wins. Joe: Thank you. Milena: Thank you, gracias. Ramesh: Gracias. Anne: It's very exciting. For those BOSSes that are just joining us and have not joined us before now, Pilar and I ran a bilingual audition challenge contest, which featured a Toyota commercial in both English and Spanish. And this was about, I'm gonna say, three to four weeks ago, and we had a number of submissions. I think it was over what, Pilar, like 130 or something like that? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Or close to 130. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And so first of all, everybody did a wonderful job, but we are so, so incredibly excited to have the winners with us today to talk about being bilingual in the industry today and what it takes. So let's start with our English winner, Mr. Joe Lewis. Yay, Joe. Joe, tell us a little bit about yourself and then I wanna play your winning audition. Joe: Okay. Well thank you for having me here. First of all, it's great to be with you all. I am a bilingual voiceover and voice actor, born in the US, Spanish father, American mother. And basically I've been back and forth in the States to Spain and from Spain to the States at different points of my life. And it's been a trip or several trips. You learn to adapt where you are and you do as the Romans do. And you learn a lot of stuff because you have to leverage two cultures, two languages. It's a thing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, let's play your winning audition. And I wanna tell you a little bit about the specs. Our specs indicated that the voice should be confident, knowledgeable, optimistic, never take themselves too seriously, but at the same time, never come off as sarcastic either, warm human down to earth, playful spontaneous, conversational, relatable, and above all else, nothing that is typical commercial sounding, movie trailer, or announcery at all. So. Milena: All the things, all the things. Anne: All the things. Pilar: In other words, the kitchen sink. Anne: All the things. Totally. And I want to give a big shout out to the queen bee herself, Liz Atherton, and CastVoices for her sponsoring this contest and offering our winners a year pro membership to CastVoices. You guys, castvoices.com, go and get yourself an account. Liz is amazing and always has the voice talents' backs. I'll tell you what, she's amazing. So thank you Liz for that. So let's go ahead and play the warm, human, down to earth, playful, not typical commercial sounding, movie trailer or announcery English winning submission by Joe. Here we go. Joe: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. Joe: Thank you. Anne: I think that that really took every single spec into consideration. Joe, did you have any particular strategy when you were doing this audition or what is it that you do to prepare for an audition? Because we had so many submissions, but yours just kind of really stood out from the get-go. Joe: Well, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. As far as strategy, if it's automotive, I take it extra seriously because it's a big genre. So no matter what it is, even if it's a dealership, you know, it could turn into a long-term gig. So you take it seriously. It's always a challenge, uh, to see if it's a soft sell or if it's a harder sell, more promotional. At the same time, as you say, there's lot to consider in the styles or the trends that we work with today, uh, which are very different from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And that's as far as in general or as far as English. As far as Spanish, obviously my origin is of Castilian Spanish, uh, from Spain. So knowing that this would be for the American market, I tried to modulate that and go to a more neutral read and, and taking the specs into consideration as much as I could and have fun, have fun with it. Anne: Yeah. I think that's so important that you have fun with it. Pilar, comments about why we love Joe so much. Pilar: Listening to it again, I think what, what I really liked about it, this is probably not the right word. It wasn't folksy, but I really felt like I was listening to you, and I was listening to a real person rather than somebody reading it. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: Like, and just the small pauses, the little giggle -- there were some amazing entries, but what I found so interesting about yours was that you had this attitude from the beginning. You weren't serious, and then you went to the punchline. You had this sort of upbeat throughout the entire read. That's what really stood out for me. Anne: Yeah. Really, really warm smile, I think overall. Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: I just felt like. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: I felt like we were just longtime friends, which we are, but listening to, I felt like we were, and it really, really stood out from the beginning. So congratulations, Joe, again -- Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: -- on that. Joe: I appreciate it. Anne: So onto our winner in the Spanish division, Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're located and your VO journey so far. Milena: All right. Well Saludos, hola, hi. Milena Benefiel. I am currently located in Orlando, well, near Orlando, Florida. I am the first generation born here in the US. Both of my parents came over from Cartagena, Colombia, woohoo and they insisted that I learned Spanish as a child, and I never understood why. Why would I ever need this other language? And look at me now, right? My background was actually in television. I worked part-time as a TV host for a Telemundo affiliate in Spanish and did a lot of commercial acting while also being an ER nurse and ICU nurse. I came from entrepreneurial parents who had multiple careers, multiple jobs, 'cause they had to, right, coming from another country. So I don't know how to not have too much on my plate. So this was kind of my side hustle. And after COVID I, I took it from part-time to full-time. I, I was kind of burnt out in the hospital, and yeah, I had the ability to go from sounding very middle America English, as you can hear in my, in my accent to speaking [Spanish] speaking in Spanish that's very neutral. It kind of like people are like, are you Colombian or Cuban or from where? So I've been very fortunate in that that I've been able to provide both sides for my clients. So it's been a really fun journey. Ramesh: Super. Anne: Yeah. Let's have a listen to the winning entry. Here we go. Milena: Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Yay! Ramesh: Super. Anne: Congratulations again, such a wonderful, warm sound. That's what I really got. And I love how, when we said have fun with this or somebody that doesn't take themselves too seriously, I really felt that in the places where you could -- it opened up to have fun, the more conversational like, "oops, I think my burrito's done." I love the way that you guys brought life to that and brought fun to that that wasn't even as expected. Pilar, your thoughts, Pilar: You had me from the beginning Milena. This was to me displayed so much warmth and reassurance. I felt like when I listen to it, you're taking me by the hand, and you're reassuring me as a consumer that it's gonna be okay. And it's like, oh yeah, I'll do whatever she says. Milena: Wow. PIlar: So that's what I got from this read. It was really, yeah, it was, it was really good read. You just, you got me. Milena: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. I am so grateful for that feedback. That's kind of my MO when it comes to anything that I do in VO. I just, I, I wanna be warm and caring and reassuring. That's kind of my, my thing. So that you heard that feels so good because it makes me feel like, wow, okay. I'm, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. So thank you so much. Anne: I wanna kind of tag on to what Pilar said. Like for me, I do not speak Spanish, but I could hear the story. If I listen, I could hear your story in there. And when we talk about trusting Toyota, I felt that, and I really felt that you took the words beyond just what was on the page, and really you were in the scene. And like I said, for me to not even speak Spanish but to listen and to be able to hear your storytelling, I thought that that was, that was just really wonderful. So yeah. Milena: Wow. Thank you so much. Such a huge compliment from two women that I admire very much. So this is a very surreal moment for me. So thank you so much. Anne: well deserved. Well deserved. Milena: Thank you. Anne: Okay. So onto our English Spanish combination winner. Ramesh Mahtani yay. Congratulations. Ramesh, tell us a little bit -- Ramesh: Well, thank you very much. Anne: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey. Ramesh: Yeah, well, I suppose like most of us over here, very, very varied background. I mean, I was born in Karachi, Pakistan to Indian parents who perhaps were a bit disgruntled with the way things were going out over there, and they decided to move to the Canary Islands. Why, I have no idea, but that takes me back to when I was about four. So I came over here to the islands, speaking a combination of Sindi, of Hindi, of Urdu. Of course I had to learn Spanish rather quickly. And my parents always wanted me to speak English because they knew that English is the lingua franca, and you wouldn't get anywhere in the world without it. So I grew up in an American school over here in the canaries, and I was shipped off to a horrible concentration camp sort of boarding school in England, which was a nightmare. Um, I would spend four long miserable years there, which is I suppose, where I picked up the sort of vestige of an English accent. And then I went to America to do my university degree, which was a lot of fun. And I saw what the real world was like. And I didn't, I suppose, switch on to the American accent because wherever I spoke to were like, oh my God, your accent's so cool. Where are you from? Well, I'm originally from -- Oh my God. Keep on speaking. We just love your accent. So, um, no, I didn't pick up an American accent, I suppose. I just veered towards what, what I call international or neutral. So that's my story. And in voice, I I've always played around with my voice. I love switching accents between -- I speak to my parents with a bit of an -- well, my mom. My father passed away -- with an Indian accent. So it changes depending who I talk to, if it is very strong Indian community, well, it becomes Indian, otherwise it's what I speak now. And then of course, in Spanish and English and French and all these sort of, you know, weird voices going on in my head, it was but natural that I followed a voice over career. So that's what brings me here today, basically. Anne: Wow. Well now you did something interesting with your auditions. You did two takes for both English and Spanish. And so one of the things that stood out to Pilar and I were the fact that you did two different takes for each. And so let's go ahead and play now. Um, I'm gonna click on this one. I'm not sure if this is the English or the Spanish. So hang on one second because the name is, is long. So it's kind of running off my little table here. Ramesh: Sure. Anne: It could be either one. Let's put it that way. There we go. Ramesh: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. I wanna just make some comments before we played your Spanish entry. I thought, first of all, you had two completely different takes, and now I understand where the accent came from because you were living in the UK. So I get that now. I was not aware of that, but I really loved it because it really wasn't something that felt to me like it was obviously forced or something that wasn't natural to you. And the fact that you did completely different reads shows just some tremendous acting ability, which I think is any good casting director that can hear that knows immediately that they would be able to direct you to do anything really. And so that was, I thought was really strong about your English entry. And I also liked you had a different reaction and a different emotion about the burrito, which stood out to me, even though it was like a nuanced change. You're like, oh I think my burrito's done. Or Ooh, I think my burrito's done. It really lent a lot to the different reads and the different aspects and the showcasing of your acting abilities. Pilar. Pilar: Yeah. I felt like you were talking to two different people in the two different reads and that was really significant. And it's funny because I didn't realize it, but they were two different accents, and I was like, they sounds so different, and it's, it's like, oh yeah, duh, because he's so versatile. But that also colored the read because one was a little bit more business-like. The other one was a little bit sort of more off the cuff, more warm. And so it was really interesting to see them together, but they are very different reads, so yeah, that's great. Ramesh: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I suppose one of the underlying elements is that I try and make sure that I'm not trying to sell in this case, sell the car, but just say, tell the story, uh, as something that we will often talk about in voiceover direction. As soon as it sounds sort of salesy, you know, you're going the wrong direction. So spice it up, you know, conjure up some magic, just make it sound as if as Pilar said, you know, you're just basically off the cuff having a conversation with someone, without sell, buy this car sort of thing, you know, which we definitely do not want to go there. Anne: And you know, I don't know if you guys noticed, but in the middle of that script, the sentences were a little bit long. You know how we always get a script and if it's a really lovely, wonderfully written script, we're like, oh yes, it's so easy to voice. We gave you something specifically that may not have been so easy to voice in navigating a long sentence. So. Ramesh: Ah, you did it purposely. Anne: Yeah. All of you handled that so well, so kudos on that. I mean, I'm used to doing that because you do a lot of long format narration and coaching my students, there's always unwieldy sentences. And to make it sound truly conversational and you know, as if you're talking to one person or talking to us, you gotta know your rhythm, you gotta kind of know, you gotta put yourself in the scene and understand where those pauses, where the commas are, even if they don't exist. Ramesh: Yeah. I realize, I thought, my gosh, who's written this, because it is, there was a part where it got really wordy and thought, you know, you have to navigate that. Pilar: Those were the traps and none of you fell into it. Anne: Yes. You know, we are teachers . Exactly. Yes. Always a teacher, just saying so, so congratulations. All right. So let's play, uh, the Spanish entry, which again, you did two reads, which were different. So here we go. Ramesh: Soy Ramesh Mahtani. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: Yay. Ramesh: I suppose I'll just caveat, uh, the accent there. I mean like Joe, I live in Spain and sometimes if my client's in mainland Spain, I would do a Castilian accent, but I put on a sort of neutral and general Latin American accent for those, which is similar to the Canarian accent. Anne: Yeah. I was gonna just ask you about that. And one thing that I wanted to point out, which I thought was super strategic, because you did the two takes, you immediately went into your second take to call the attention of like -- Pilar and I listened like, oh my gosh, I think it took us a weekend, right, at least, uh, one after the other one after the other. Pilar: Several times too. Anne: Exactly. And the fact that even though, I didn't know, you were having two takes immediately going into that second take was like brilliant because I didn't stop listening. You know, I was just getting ready. Okay. He's finished -- oh no, here he comes with the next one, which I thought was really strategic. And I think if I know you, Ramesh, that was on purpose Ramesh: Would it have been the alternative to have said, take one? Pilar: No. Most people leave a space. Anne: A lot of space. Yeah. Pilar: You don't let the listener down for a second. There's no lag time. Ramesh: Right. Pilar: And that is brilliant. I mean, I'm using that in my auditions now as well. Ramesh: Okay. I've I've always done it that way. Anne: That's smart. Ramesh: I, I seldom send off an audition unless I do two. Pilar: It's wonderful. Ramesh: I usually always do two takes. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: And I just do them back to back. So as you said, so they don't have a chance to hit the next button. Yeah. Milena: I typically call it out in my slate if I'm going, do two takes, which -- Anne: And that's good too. Milena: -- for most auditions I would do two. Yeah. But I like this. You give them no choice. Give 'em no choice. Anne: Right, right. Just go right into it. I love it. And you went right into that second character too, which I thought was great for that. Now did you have a strategy English versus Spanish? I know you just mentioned that you did more of a neutral Spanish. What was your strategy for those two different reads? Ramesh: For the two Spanish reads? Anne: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Ramesh: Um, just, just variation really. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: I mean, I just, I would loathe for them to sound similar so the director would've said, ah, you know, this guy's obviously reading the same thing twice in the same way. I, I just do not wanna fall in that trap. So whatever I could do to spice it up or color it to just make them sound different and believable, relatable and conversational, keeping away from the salesy. Anne: Sure. So then let me ask you what's happening in your brain? What's happening? What's the process? Are you putting yourself in a different scene maybe? Ramesh: I've got a different audience and I'm somebody else. Anne: Okay. Ramesh: So either I'm a young sort of rich, youthful sort of business dude, or I'm an older person just wanting to sort of have a nice car. So I, my whole persona changes, maybe it helps being a Gemini. I could switch from one, from one personality to the other, but yeah, definitely. I've gotta change the audience and change the speaker. Both of them. Anne: Oh good. That's a really good tip. I like that. I've always changed the scene, but not necessarily who I was, because I always wanna be conversational and, and tell this story and, and not be salesy as well, but I never thought about changing, let's say I'm a younger Anne, which that would be nice. I like that. Milena: Your voice can be as young as you wanna be. Anne: That's it. There you go. Yeah. I like that. Ramesh: I guess ever since I was a young kid and, and having been moved around so many different places, I perhaps, and this is for something very personal and intimate, and I, and now that it comes up in context, I don't mind sharing it, but I've, I've often struggled to have a proper identity as an -- sometimes I don't even know who I am because I've had to switch and I do often switch, you know, when I speak, as I said, I speak to my mom, I speak to in an Indian sort of way. I speak to the local Canarian dudes out in the street and become totalmente canario; it's a totally different accent. So I'm always switching, switching, switching, switching in the end, to think, you know, oh my gosh, existential crisis, you know, who am I? Anne: That's a, that's really an interesting point. Yeah. Joe: You're a chameleon, Ramesh. Ramesh: I'm a bit of a chameleon. Anne: Absolutely. Ramesh: I'm not Spanish and I'm not English, you know? So it's really weird. Anne: That's very interesting. I always equate that, and again, I'll get maybe a little into it, but I grew up with three brothers. And so being the only girl in the family, I didn't have to share necessarily, but I also didn't have like a sister to kind of like play dolls with or whatever I was gonna be doing. Milena: Same. Anne: So I got really good at my imagination. Ramesh: Yeah. Anne: And playing with my dolls and teaching and talking to them and really putting myself in different scenes with them. And I think that carries through the adulthood. Right, Milena, you mentioned the same thing? Milena: Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't have a sister growing up. And I also just think like with my parents having the multiple jobs, they were both performers. My whole life has been a performance, and I kind of do the same in my two takes. I go into my lower register in that warm, buttery, soft, like my first take will be -- or exactly what the specs ask for, I'll give you in the first take, and then the next one, I'll kick it up to a little bit of a higher pitch, make myself a little bit younger and I'll be a little wackier, like a little more fun, a little more conversational, and just get a little more crazy with it. Just to add some adlibs and some different things too, just for range. Anne: I think that's great. Do you have more than two personas? I always have two in my pocket, but do you spend time developing, let's say, a third read or a third persona that can give you a different read? I think that's good for the artist in us. Joe: I mean, I, what captivated me about this piece was the invitation to do effects. You don't usually see that in copy, so I thought that was like, ooh, this is gonna be fun. Anne: Yeah. Joe: And then I tried to add layers, do several takes and sort of warm up and then listen to them and see if I can be sprinkling, uh, or adding something. But I do agree that when you kick into another language, it's another dimension of tools and, and tricks that you have. I wasn't privileged to have brothers or sisters. So being lucky enough to grow up with a, a parent of either side, you know, you, you kind of take it for granted when you're a kid, and then you, you grow up and you're like, wow, this is pretty powerful to switch on and off, switch the languages, you know, with all the cultural and the contextual things that come along with each particular one. Totally there with Ramesh on the strange dichotomy that happens and not really knowing who you are or when it's the, uh, what secret service did you say you worked for again? Pilar: No, comment. Milena: I love how he's silent. He's like -- Joe: He's a pro. Milena: If I tell you I'll have to kill you. Ramesh: Well, sorry. Did I, did I talk about a secret service? Joe: I was asking you what secret service you work for, my friend. Anne: I love it. Milena: Crickets, crickets. Anne: Crickets. Secret service. Pilar: Speaking of which, that was one of the things that really struck me about Ramesh's Spanish read is that I heard someone speaking in Spanish with the Spanish language rhythms rather than a translation. And that to me was so important because that not being your first language, and I think that that's really important because like Milena, I mean, I was born in this country, but my parents spoke to me for the first five years of my life in Spanish, but it's technically not the language that, you know, I speak English all the time. So there's something, there's always that strange sort of divide. Like who are you? Are you this? Are you that? And what I really liked about your read was that it was like, I was listening to a Spanish person speaking, not a translation. And that's so important. Everyone is always so concerned with the accent. That really kind of falls by the wayside. Because if you believe in what you're saying, and it has to do with acting, if you're really acting it, how well you speak or how much of an accent you have doesn't really matter. It all falls by the wayside. So that's what to me, what made a very successful bilingual audition. And that's why we picked you, one of the reasons why we picked you as the bilingual audition winner. Ramesh: Oh, thank you. I'm privileged. Thank you very much. Anne: And again, I'll just kind of tack onto what Pilar was saying is both of the Spanish versions of your audition, I could hear the story that you were telling. And again, I listened very carefully, especially in the unwieldy sentences, because that's what I do every day with my students. I'm working on these crazy, long format narration scripts that aren't always written well. And so I would really be listening carefully throughout all the entries for that navigation. And I still felt the story. I felt the rhythm, and I felt the words that needed to come be a little more present in my ear that were important, like the brand name, the fact that you trust Toyota on all of your reads. Believe it or not, listening to all of the entries, that was kind of a key I was listening for, to trust Toyota. And I wanna feel that trust as opposed to trust Toyota. And I really wanted to feel that little nuance of emotion or trust. And I think every single one of you in every one of your English and Spanish gave me that trust feeling and that warm feeling and that kind of having fun with it, especially at the end, and the beeps too. I mean, I like the fact that we gave this script out because of the beep beep and what people did with the beep beep was really telltale, especially in the beginning, if you did something that maybe wasn't a traditional beep beep or you had fun with it, or you just kind of smiled at yourself. I think Joe, you're, right off the bat, you're kind of chuckling a little bit and it just was so warm and I fell in love with that from the beginning and all of your interpretations of the beeping at the front end of that and the back end of that, I loved it. You know, you had fun with it like we asked in the specs. Joe: Well, I was just gonna say Road Runner, you know, I mean, it was irresistible to me. It was irresistible. Ramesh: Absolutely, absolutely. Milena: Yes, that's exactly what I pictured in my head too. Ramesh: Yeah. Milena: That's funny. Ramesh: I think after doing this for, I mean, you know, you're speaking to people who are super professionals. I have great respect for Joe and Milena and Pilar and yourself, Anne, of course. I mean, when you listen to somebody who's just started off and doesn't have much training, that's when you realize, oh my gosh, this is a poorly done audition. But after a while it just becomes intuitive, I think, plus the script lend itself, the beeps, the mic proximity that you can, the burrito whole thing. I mean, what does the burrito have to do with the car sale, for God's sake? So you can do so much with that. You know, you can just, as you said, have fun and the more imagination you have, and the more years of experience you have tucked under your belt, you can do crazy things within parameters, of course. I often don't overthink it because that's usually when it doesn't usually work. It's usually my first and my third take, which are good. Uh, the first one, because I'm just off the bat, I'm fresh and I'm just being really spontaneous. The second seems to be similar to the first ,and the third, usually I've had a bit more time to imagine nuances, and those come out quite magically. So, but yeah, the script was nice. It lent itself to, to having fun and being creative. Milena: I completely agree with that, the instincts, I know Anne, you had asked earlier, you know, what was your method? How did you attack this script? How did we look at the script? And I actually will do a read prior to even reading the specs, just to get my natural inclination of like, okay, I'm looking at the script without overthinking it. Let me just do a read. And then of course looking at the specs, and then kind of picking apart, you know, I listened back to my read and picking apart, what words do we wanna highlight? Like you said, trust, right? The brand, faster and safely, getting there fast and safely. Those are important things, right? Joe: Exactly. Milena: So then I go through with it, but I completely agree with Ramesh, it typically is my first read. And then maybe my third or my fourth. The second one always sounds like the first one, or it's like, so off the wall that it's like, why did I go totally left field on that one? But yeah. I completely agree with you, when you just go with those once you've been doing it for a while, when you try to be someone you're not, it's not authentic. Ramesh: Exactly. Milena: And you can hear it in your read. Joe: Yeah. By family tradition, my parents came from the academic and the publishing world. So script analysis, I put at the top of the list, you know, the top three, because the burrito for example was what invited me not to do it in Castilian. And that was my choice. I thought it was great that you did two takes of each, Ramesh. I, I shied away from the Castilian because I just wanted to have a burrito and, and that's Mexican, and I just -- and it's international by now., yes, but it's traditionally and originally Mexican. And I wanted, I wanted to go there. If you told any person in Spain, you know, burrito just stand alone, they might not get it. If it's contextual, they'll be, oh yeah, yeah, Taco Bell, you know, whatever, but, or Mexican restaurant, but that's, that's the reason I, I shied away from Castilian and I, I made an attempt at my best neutral Spanish. Milena: I had no choice. I don't do Castilian You don't wanna hear me trying to do Castilian accent. Anne: So that brings an interesting question, which I had asked of Pilar early on in our series, about when specs come in for Spanish, is there a strategy? Are specs clear? Do you sometimes have to say, well, is there a particular dialect that you're looking for? What do you guys do? Joe: First and foremost is the market. What market is it hitting? Because if it's a state, it's gonna be 99.9% neutral Spanish. It's very exceptional to do Castilian. I've spent many years living in Spain, and sometimes they call me to do Spanish and Catalan. And for many years they wanted an American accent, even though I don't really have one when I speak normally. So I, I had to kind of impose, impose an accent like this or something like that. You know, you know what I'm saying? Milena: I love it. Being in the US, I think it's kind of less of a question for me. I know Ramesh and Joe are overseas. For me here in the US, typically my specs are always gonna say either neutral Spanish or Latam Spanish, Latin American Spanish. That's 99%. I think I have gotten a couple auditions that have asked for Catalan or Castilian Spanish. And it's very rare, but I am pretty upfront with them that I'm like, you're not gonna be happy with my read, if you want me to try to pull one of those off. But yeah, I think for me over here in the States, it's almost always, it's gonna be neutral or, or Latin American Spanish, which is what I do. And I can put a little bit more of that Paisa, you know, Colombian accent on it, if they're asking specifically for Latin American, but yeah. Ramesh: I've had a very strange situation with many of my castings in Spanish. I've booked jobs. And then they come to me and say, you're not Spanish, are you? I said, they say, you sound very Spanish, but by your name, we had doubts. And a few times they're, they're brave enough to say that. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: They're like, your name sounds Indian or Pakistani. I'm like, well, it is. What you want do about it? Milena: What you want? Ramesh: You bookedme. You, you booked me, you liked my audition, but are you just curious? You just wanna start a conversation over here? And, and I struggle with that. And the same thing with my English, like, oh, this guy's Indian. He probably, he doesn't have a proper English accent. I'm like, well, so I stopped trying to be very British at one point, and I said, well, I'm international English. I mean, what can I say? Yes, I'm Indian. I can't, I could change my name. And at one point I tried to go as Robert Martin, but I thought it just sucks. Joe: No, you should be Pepe Mahtani. Ramesh: Pepe Mahtani de las islas canarias... so, yeah. So that's another sort of strange one, but like Joe's, But I mean, I also do a lot of times they, they ask you to do a span with the English accent. So you have to do what they, what the client wants and you hope they're happy. Joe: You have to. You have to. Ramesh: You have to. Pilar: You have to. Ramesh: Yes. Milena: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: Without a doubt. Milena: Ramesh, that did strike me. Remember, our first conversation. That's what I said. I said, I'm completely blown away. As soon as I saw your name, I was like, well, he's not Spanish or American. [indistinct] Ramesh: No, I totally understandable, yeah. It's like, where are you from? [speaking Spanish] Milena: Cómo puede ser, pero no entiendo. [banter in Spanish] Joe: For me, it's the same, Joe Lewis. Right? You know, talking in Spanish, like, come on. This is -- Pilar: You could be José Luís. Joe: Ridiculous, ain't it? Milena: José Luís. Joe: José Luís, exacto. Ramesh: Whenever I speak to Joe, whenever I, the first thing I tell him, when we get on the phone is like, hello, Mr. Joe Lew-is. . Joe: I try to do my best Southeast Asian for Ramesh because I love him so much. Ramesh: Listen, all my white friends who try and do an Indian accent are just terrible at it. You guys suck big eggs because you cannot do an Indian accent. Even Mr. Peter Sellers, who I have great respect for in the movie "The Party," he also did not pull out a decent Indian accent. I'm sorry. It's crap. Joe: A thousand apologies. But I do -- I do this with, with love. I do this with love. I promise you. Ramesh: Joke around. Anne: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: You can joke around because we are good friends, but your Indian accent, I'm sorry, is not very convincing. Joe: Totally. Totally agreed. Anne: Oh my goodness. Well, you guys -- Milena: Friends don't let friends go around with terrible accents. Anne: There you go. There you go. Joe: Precisely. Anne: So I wanna ask each of you, what would be your best tip? Like how do you market yourself as -- like people that are coming in to the industry now, if they're bilingual, what best tips can you give us to market yourself as a bilingual voice talent? Joe: I've spent many years trying to equate both. I have them at the same level, both languages. It was a thing of responsibility. That's a big R word, responsibility. And this was instilled through my parents directly and indirectly. So I was very lucky with that. It all went astray when, uh, a number of years ago, I started to get requests from clients to do accents that are not my natural accents. Oh, I wait, are you sure? I'm like, yes, no, please. And then you do it and they love it. And like, Hmm, well, maybe there's something here. Maybe, maybe it's a thing. So you can never sleep in your laurels. You can never get too comfortable. You can never get too overconfident because it's like music. I come from music. It's ultimately unattainable. You're not gonna finish it. Just keep on pumping. That's what you can do. That's my best advice. Keep on pumping. Ramesh: 100%. Milena: I guess before this interview, we talked about this a little bit. I actually shied away from doing Spanish when I first started, despite me literally being on Telemundo, right? like having my own segment in Spanish. I always was a little bit insecure about my Spanish, and I would get requests to do things both English and Spanish, and producers kept telling me like, you've got something here. You've gotta do -- when you can offer both sides, it's more efficient. It's mutually beneficial for you and the client. You've really gotta push this. And I did. So I try to -- and I'm trying to get better at it -- I try to, when I'm posting things, say to social media, or, you know, whenever I'm doing things, I'm trying to do more showing the spots that I do in English and in Spanish so that people can see both sides, especially right now. There's this huge shift in the last few years here, that is this huge push for diversity, huge push for bilingualism, especially with Spanish in the US. And I don't know if you guys are seeing things over there too, or internationally, 'cause of course I just know here in the US, but there's this really big push. So I've been very, very fortunate in that everyone that I connect with, as soon as I mention that I'm bilingual, they then mention that to somebody else. So my biggest tip would be let people know. Don't do what I did for the first, you know, five years and shy away from that. Practice it. And if you don't feel as confident in that second language, which I didn't, start reading books out loud, watching movies, speaking -- I told my parents do not speak to me in English. We're speaking in Spanish, and I would read technical things so that it would be more difficult, you know, words that I didn't use in conversation, and just let people know, but plaster it everywhere and make sure everyone knows. Anytime I send an audition on say Voice 123, 'cause I do use that as a pay to play in addition to my agents and other things, anytime, even if it's an English audition only, I always, always, always write, hey, and if you ever think about hitting the Hispanic market, I also speak neutral Spanish. Please go to my website and here's my stuff. Even if it's only an English spot, I always let people know. And you know what? 50% of the time, they come back to me and say, you know what? We posted a separate for the Spanish. We'll just go with you for both of them. So whatever language that is that you're in, use it. And even if you don't think they'll ever use you in -- let people know, 'cause they're not gonna know unless you tell them, right? So that is my biggest piece of advice is just brag on yourself, man. Let 'em know. Joe: And if I may quote Jaco Pastorias, the great late bass player, it ain't bragging if you can back it up. Milena: Heyo. Ramesh: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, your thoughts? Ramesh: Yeah. Well, I think in my case, I was speaking to Joe about this actually a few, a few days back, it, it's very market specific. I mean I live in Spain and I don't really market myself to Spanish clients in Spanish, I suppose because I know there's, there's a whole plethora of Spanish voice artists here. Why would they necessarily go to me? So they come to me for English and as Milena said, once they come to me for English, then I'd bring out the Spanish. I'm like, here you go. I can do it in Spanish for you. Oh great. That saves us so much trouble and hassle finding somebody who can do it in Spanish. And likewise with international clients that I book in English, you know, I tell them I, I can do the Spanish, but I think you, as Milena said, you have to let it be known that you can do both and do whatever you're good at. If you're good at corporate, well, sell yourself at corporate and be even better at corporate, and then perhaps branch out to something that you may want to aspire to. If you wanted to do some animation in Spanish, you've never done that before, get coaching, but focus on your strengths and build your strengths and be really confident that my strong piece is this. And I can promote that openly and confidently, because confidence is, is 90% of the game. If they see that you say I can do Spanish for you as well. And you know, you don't have a belief in yourself, it's gonna seep through. I mean, I do French voicing, but I tell the clients, I'm not a native French speaker. I've got a very good accent, but it's not native. And I try and pull it off because I have confidence that I can do it. Joe: I totally agree. We don't read minds. And I, I was in a corporate multinational advertising agency for a while, and bilingualism in the States is a really important thing. I mean, I don't know what you think, Ramesh, if you agree with me, but for certain reasons, I think there's more of a bilingual ambient in the States than there is in Spain. 'Cause Spain is too busy with politics and they're busy with co-official languages. They're not dialects, they're official languages like Catalan, Gallego, or Galician and, and Basque. And the, the thing is that, uh, because of the way English is taught in Spain and, and because of dubbing, this is the reason why English is not a second nature, uh, language in Spain. So you always have to have client education in mind in the good sense to try to explain to them because they may not read your mind. They may not understand to what level you are in the other language. It's not easy. I mean, it's, we live in a world that is very multiplied because of social media. And you know, I see this from the musician standpoint, again, you know, the advent of pop star. You do a 3000 line casting. You, you get in, you're on TV, it's instant stardom. I mean, there's a lot of ways to get known really quickly and dramatically in this world. And a lot of people are strutting their stuff. So it's a complicated thing to market yourself effectively. It's not just marketing, and here I would like Anne to take over on the marketing thing because you're a master at this, but it's a really important question, what you ask. How do you market yourself in English and Spanish effectively and be taken seriously? You know? Anne: Well, I mean spoken by the guy who has the bilingualvoiceover guy.com, right? I mean me@thebilingualvoice -- so that I'll tell you, right in your URL, you're advertising, and you've got multiple URLs. And I know that, you know, all of you on your websites are focusing or you have the fact that you are bilingual. And I think that's number one, I mean, in this online world and Pilar, I know does an exorbitant amount of not just bilingual voiceover, but also dubbing. So Pilar, any specific, additional tips that we haven't talked about that maybe you could offer as advice to, let's say, bilingual voiceover talent that are coming into the industry now? Pilar: Um, well a lot has been said about it. When I first started in the industry, in voiceover, I was encouraged not to do a bilingual voiceover demo for example by a very, very well known coach here that Anne and I both know who shall remain nameless who said, absolutely. You never mesh the two together. Milena: I've been told that too. Pilar: You have Spanish on one side and English on the other. So I did, not with them. And so then I, I was like, okay. So I went with somebody else. I did it, Spanish, English, fine. And then I thought, no, I'm gonna go ahead and do a bilingual voiceover demo. And I did, and that is one that's booked me so many jobs. The other one is really good. The other two that I did, the Spanish and English and it, my agents prefer me separating them. So that's fine. But the Spanglish one is what has booked me so many jobs. And so for somebody starting out, I think it's just important to keep at it, just to keep putting yourself out there. And also you never know what the client's gonna ask. I just, I find it so hysterical that I get booked for something. We'll do it in English. We'll do it in Spanish. And then they'll say, well, can you just give us a little accent? I'm like, you're kidding, right? And I don't have an accent in either. I mean, in Spanish, I always think I do, but I don't. I know I don't, it's just, it's so minuscule, but they're like, can you just make it a little bit more for us? And then in English, can you just give us a little bit more, a little thicker? I'm like, okay, fine. If that's what the client wants, that's what the client gets. So I think that the key is to be elastic and to say, yes, I can do this. I can do this. Never say no. A lot of times I've come up against artists who sit there, and they say, oh, well, I passed on that because I can't do it. And I was like, well, why can't you do it? Well, I didn't, I didn't think I could. Well, if you don't think you can, then you're not gonna be able to. Right. Exactly. So always be available and let the person who is casting see if you're right for it or not. And you know, keep putting yourself out there, no matter what. Milena: I wanted to ask, 'cause this is the question that I have and I think maybe some that are coming in would appreciate an answer to this -- in the US, the majority of my buyers are speaking English, right, whether they want Spanish or not. Now I do work with buyers that speak Spanish, but the majority of them are in English. So I've struggled with the decision to make my website, do a Spanish website, all Spanish website, or just an all English website. So I've chosen to do an all English website that says I'm bilingual and I'm gonna have an about me page that's just in Spanish, just my about me page. And I just wanted to get your feedback on that, 'cause I think that's a question that a lot of people have coming in as well. Like do I need to have these two separate entities like I have for my demos? Or like I said, for me, the majority of my buyers speak English regardless whether their client is or they -- their primary language may be Spanish, but my buyers are usually in English. Pilar: So this might sound a little radical. Milena: I like it. Anne: Already. Pilar: I'm not thinking about who my buyers are. I'm thinking about me. And if I go, and I did this, 'cause I had two separate websites 'cause I actually followed what this person said to me at first, and I had an English website and I had a Spanish website. And all that does is dilute you. That does nothing for your SEO, does nothing for the persona. And if you're talking about branding, for me, this did not work. It might work for other people, but I just park everything in one place and I have different categories. That's just me. Milena: Perfect. I like it. Pilar: And that has worked better. I think it's worked better in consolidating everything because at one time I had like three different websites. It was just crazy. And it just diluted -- Milena: It's a lot to manage. Yeah. Pilar: Exactly. Joe: I mean, Milena, you could put a tab -- you could have your website in English and then put a little tab of in Spanish and then they can click, and then they'll, they'll go to that same site, and you'll have it all translated into Spanish. What I'm not an expert is an SEO and how it behaves looking at a, at a site in one language and if it can complement SEO ratings on the same site. So just because I could, I have the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, but I have both Voces Bilingue, and right now I'm redirecting them. But the idea is to have Voces Bilingue in Spanish and then have it linked to the English one. Anne: And then Joe, you have a page on your, the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, English that also is translated in Spanish, correct? Joe: Yes, because I hadn't had this thing that I just talked about yet. That, that, that was a sort of a patch in the meantime. And funny enough, that page is what's ranking. Anne: I was just gonna say that, if you have that page, if it's all in Spanish, because if somebody doesn't speak English, and they're typing a search term in Spanish, that would match your page, your landing page. And it still comes to your central, you know, I call it the central website, but you've just got another page. Yeah, a separate tab, a landing page. And I think that's a really good strategy that you'll be able to capture the best of both SEO worlds. Yeah. Pilar: Yeah. The tab is essential. Joe: Yeah. The tab, mm-hmm. Anyway, I mean, my thing is work in progress too, but the way I choose to think is that there's 2 billion English speakers, and there's 600,000 Spanish speakers. So that's a market of 2.6 billion. Anne: Yeah. Joe: For each one of us. And sky's the limit. Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, how do you work your website? Do you have a special page dedicated? Ramesh: I just have it in English actually. I think that's, that's definitely something I need to work on to see how I can, but I've -- to be absolutely honest, I'm quite happy with the level of work that I've got right now. So -- Milena: If it ain't broke. Ramesh: -- smooth sailing, I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I'm comfortable. So I, I could perhaps do all these lovely suggestions that you guys have come up with, but perhaps another time. Anne: Well, I don't have another language page, but I have literally four other genre specific pages like website, because I specialize in corporate narration or I specialize in e-learning. So I have the e-learningvoice.com. I have medical-narration.com, phone voice. And so even though I may not get a ton of activity on those sites, the words on those sites get indexed, and it contributes to my SEO. And each of those sites also maps back to my core site, which I think is my core brand of AnneGanguzza.com in addition to my VO BOSS and VO Peeps brands. So I handle probably 11 sites. Pilar: That's next level marketing. Go to AnneGanguzza.com for next level marketing, that's, that's that's our next, our next job. Anne: But yeah, it just helps to be found and it kind of just works on its own. And every once in a while I do have, as a matter of fact, I'm looking to refresh those pages just to make sure they keep generating people, pointing at my website. And again, it's a wonderful position to be in. If you have a, a good amount of work, I think that's amazing. Then things are working for you. And so that's why your advice and everything we're talking about today is so valuable for people that are coming into this industry. So we thank you, guys, so much for joining us. Milena: Thank you for this contest -- Joe: Thank you for having us. Milena: -- and this swag. Hello! Ramesh: Thank you for having us. Anne: I know. So yeah, I do wanna mention the swag. So not only did you guys get, uh, thank you again to Liz Atherton, but also you guys got BOSS swag, which Pilar and Milena are wearing right now. Ramesh: Yeah. Mine's on the way. It'll be here in about next -- Anne: Which it is on the way. As a matter of fact, I will tell you because you're on that little island there, Ramesh, it might take a little longer to get you. Milena: It's gonna come by carrier pigeon. Ramesh: Keep on looking at the skies to make sure the drones are dropping in. Anne: I can't wait to see pictures of you in that t-shirt. Ramesh: Oh, I will. Anne: And Joe with your mug. That's awesome. So. Ramesh: I love it. Super. Anne: You guys, amazing job. Thank you so much. It's been, this has been so wonderful, and we thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, and yeah, I wanna do this like now every six months. Milena: Down for it. Anne: Think we should -- Joe: -- amazing. Anne: You know, right? Ramesh: It would be pleasure. Anne: So what's been going on in six months in the bilingual world? So yeah. Awesome. Well guys, I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You guys can connect and network like we have on ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I will say that this was recorded today with Riverside. So I'm extremely happy to have given this a try, and thanks for the wonderful video and audio tracks that we're going to get. And one more sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. If you want to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. Thanks, guys, so much for joining us again. It's been amazing and we'll see you next week. Ramesh: Thank you very much. Joe: It was lovely. Milena: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Three days with VO industry experts + networking with peers? Sign us up! Anne gets the inside scoop on what's in store for eVOcation 2022 with co-founders Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. The three chat industry advice for newcomers + seasoned voice artists, what to expect at the conference, paying it forward, and how important it is to make education a lifelong journey! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to be here with amazing talents and founders of the popular eVOcation Conference, which is devoted to the business of voiceover, Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. Thank you guys so much for joining me today. Carin: Thanks for having us. We're so excited to be here. Jamie: Yeah. Thanks, Anne. Anne: I am so excited to talk to you guys about all things, eVOcation, business voiceover, because I think you guys are such an amazing team. Like you've been together for a number of years, I'm gonna say at least that I've known about -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- doing wonderful things for the voiceover community and supporting communities on Facebook with a wonderful conference that you're now having once or twice a year, I'm not sure. Um, we'll talk about that. . Carin: We're not really sure either, because I feel like as soon as we started this conference, then we had a global pandemic, and -- Anne: Yeah, right? Oh my gosh. Carin: So now we're like, so what, what are we doing? Jamie: Yeah. Anne: Well, so before we get to talking about eVOcation, I'd like my BOSS listeners to find out a little bit about you guys. So if you guys wouldn't mind introducing yourselves tell the BOSSes a little bit about how you got into voiceover and then ultimately how you two met and started creating these wonderful community resources. Jamie. Jamie: Carin, do you want to go -- oh. Jamie: Too polite. Carin: We're, we're just so polite. Anne: You guys are so polite to each other. That's why I let you do that. . Jamie: All right. Well, I'm gonna take the lead . I started voiceover in 2009 in the UK and knowing that I was gonna move to the US. So I sort of had this plan that was gonna sort of be a job that I could start in the UK and then try transition over. Um, only really had confidence in it because I had sort of recording knowledge. I was in the sort of studio world in the music industry. And so I knew how to record my voice. And I knew I was going to America where apparently they like English guy voices. So that's, that's all I had really coming in . I started in the UK and then we moved over ,and then I sort of continued on and gradually moved away from music into voiceover. That sort of happened actually fairly quickly. Yeah, I do a whole different array of genres of voiceover, anything that requires British guy really that I'll throw my hat in the ring. And yeah, we connected, when was that? Probably, I don't know, like 2018? Carin: 2017 maybe. Jamie: Oh, maybe earlier. Oh, right. Yeah. Maybe 2017. Carin: 'Cause I feel like it was around when Mahalia was born, my daughter, and she was born in 2017. Jamie: Yeah. And it was actually -- Carin: Sometime around there. Jamie: -- Tim Friedlander I think that introduced us, I think. Carin: I think so. Jamie: Because Tim shot me a message and was like, oh, you know, there's this lady in New York who's got this huge Facebook group for New York voice actors? I was like, no . And so we connected that way and yeah, we just sort of got on well. And I've obviously got my podcast VO School, and she had her community, and we were talking and we was like, there's nothing really in New York aside from Carin's regular classes and things like that. There was nothing big in New York, which seemed crazy . So that was sort of the sort of burgeoning discussion that eventually resulted in VOcation. Anne: A-ha. Carin? Carin: I was a theater kid. My dad's an opera singer. My parents are both performers, and really in my family, there are two options. You either become a teacher or a performer. And a teacher is really a kind of performer anyway . Anne: True. Carin: And so I ended up going to school for opera. And then after being in the opera industry for a while, I, it just, it was so stressful. It's like being an opera singer is like being like an Olympic gymnast or something, or like a professional ballet dancer where you just have to be on top of your game all the time. And if you are even a little bit below what is considered absolute pro, then you're just like, you don't exist. So it was so stressful. And I had a friend who was narrating audio books, I thought, oh, that would be a great thing to do. I can use my voice. I can use my acting abilities. And so I got into voiceover that way. What I didn't know, and this is part of the reason why we founded VOcation also is like all the other skills that you have to know in order to be a successful voice talent. You have to learn how to record yourself and edit yourself and negotiate your own contract. And you have to learn how to direct market and set up a website and make sure that your online casting profiles are set up in a way that meets all the algorithmic things that you need to meet on those sites. There's just so much, and I love every single part of it. The more I found that I could take the reins of my own career, the happier I was. Because in so many parts of the performance industry, the entertainment industry, if you're a performer, you're kind of like waiting for gatekeepers to open doors for you. And in voiceover, yeah. I find that it's not that way. You can really build your own career the way that you wanna do it, and you don't have to wait for an agent or a manager or for winning a competition. You don't have to wait for any of those things. You just kind of jump in and go. Anne: Amen. . Carin: Yeah. And it's, and it's awesome. Anne: That's one of the parts that I love about it as well. It's so refreshing to meet with a couple of people who probably love the business aspect of voiceover, as much as the creative and performance -- Carin: I love it so much. Anne: -- aspect. And I love how you said it just, it becomes, it's your own. This is something that you can direct your own business. And it's one of the reasons why I kind of diverged into three different brands myself, because I wanted to follow each passion and have that as part of my business. And I think that, honestly, there's so many people that, it's so necessary, the business aspect of it, because I'm always saying that you can have the greatest voice in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if nobody knows about it. And so -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- there's gotta be that aspect that you are being able to market yourself and create the business that you want in order to be successful in, hey, I gotta help pay the bills. That's for sure. Carin: Yeah. Anne: So. Carin: The other thing that, what I love about voiceover is that there are so many ways to make a career. And like, I know that you, Anne, and I have totally different approaches to how we find work. Like, you are amazing at direct marketing. And you're great at marketing yourself and branding yourself. And you just said, you have three different brands. And I don't do any of that. I started on online casting sites. And I just love to audition. And I audition all day long. And I think both approaches are valid and both approaches can result in similar outcomes. And you know, now I work with agents and managers too, and I love that part of it too. But I think Christian Lance who's, if you don't know Christian Lance, he's like -- Anne: I do. Carin: He's, yeah, he's a great voice talent. He said voice actors are kind of like drivers where like, if you say you're a driver, are you a race car driver, or are you an Uber driver or are you a truck driver or are you like, what kind of driver are you? It's the same with voiceover. There are just so many different ways to be a voice actor. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And that's why at VOcation, we bring a lot, lot of different people in to give you a lot of different approaches to doing the business of voiceover. And you take what works for you and you can toss out what doesn't work for you. So I like that. Anne: I do too. I love it. Jamie, your thoughts? Jamie: I agree. Anne: One of those things that's so funny because at conferences, when you're given choices about what classes to take, there are always the performance classes and then there are like the business classes. I've noticed year after year, people are always going for those performance classes, yet what they really need is the business aspect to it. So I can completely appreciate and love the whole concept of a conference just about the business of voiceover. And you guys have really did something successful. So talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the conference and how you guys came to be, and, and that first year, what was it like? Jamie: Well, we didn't want to just put on another conference that already existed, because what's the point in that? You know, I know things are a little different now post-COVID or well, we're in COVID still, but at the time there were a whole bunch of conferences that, although in different locations, which is most important for a lot of people in terms of access. The offering was kind of similar, you know? I mean, you'd go to one conference and the similar kind of speakers. So we wanted to do something a bit different. And like you said, a lot of conferences, people are so drawn to the performance type classes and panels and things like that. The -- they're like the sort of fast food . Anne: Yeah, right? The candy. Jamie: Yeah. The candy. Anne: Yeah, the candy. Jamie: And we are like, we're like the broccoli. Anne: Yes, exactly. Oh my God. Carin: We're totally the broccoli. Anne: yeah. I love it. Jamie: But if you go to a conference and or you go to a restaurant and it's like a salad bar, like you're gonna indulge in the salad like that you're not even gonna worry about all the other stuff. So that's, that's what we are. We're the salad bar. Anne: The salad bar. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: But I love broccoli. I'm just saying. Jamie: Yeah, I do too actually, Anne: See, there we go. Jamie: I dunno why people hate it. Carin: Delicious. Anne: There we go. So we love broccoli. So therefore we love the whole -- Jamie: Yeah, that's the big takeaway from this. Anne: There you go. We love broccoli . Jamie: So yeah. We're broccoli. Anne: Jamie: Shall I expand on that? Anne: Yes. Expand on what was the first year like, and did you have it, I think you had an in-person conference, right? The first year? Jamie: Yes. We did Symphony Space on the upper west side in New York. You know, the other thing we wanted to do is we wanted to hold it in the city. Like not in an airport like 10 miles outside of town. And that, you know, brings its own challenges. You know, you're having to bring stuff in and shepherd people around, put them where they need to go. Carin: And it's a lot more expensive. Anne: Oh, I was just gonna say, I can't imagine the cost of having it in the city. Carin: Yeah. Renting space in New York is a whole thing. It's and actually Symphony Space is wonderful because they cater to a lot of nonprofits and I mean, we're, we're not a nonprofit, but they cater to a lot of like, you know, smaller groups, and renting a theater was much better for us than renting an event space. Event spaces are just crazy in New York. Yeah. We love Symphony Space. Jamie: Yeah. And we were sort of feeling it out as we went really. It was our first big event that we put on. And, um, for both of us, we, neither of us had been to a voiceover conference before. We'd been to conferences, but not voiceover. So we didn't really have something to compare it to, but it was such a fulfilling weekend. And, you know, we think based on the feedback, everyone had a at time. So yeah, it was, it was really good. We had a whole array of business classes and panels that some were very genre based. Some were, you know, marketing, some were more businessy like tax and stuff like that, and negotiation and things like that. So there's still a huge amount of scope even within this sort of limited niche conference spare to explore lots of different avenues. Like you said, there's just so much, there's so much to it. So every year, maybe not thematically, but we'll dive into different aspects. And, you know, because like Carin said, there is no definitive one path through this industry. So you really have to sort of present, uh, many of the options as possible to people. And then they draw out what is appropriate to them and what sort of fits in their career. Anne: What I love about that is because there is no one clear path or right path to get into it, your conference is offering all of the options, and people that are just kind of finding their way in this industry, I think that's such an important resource for them to understand. Number one, as you both are saying, there's more than one path into success in voiceover, and having a resource that allows people to see all the different options, I think, is truly a wonderful thing. And I wish, you know, when I had gotten into voiceover back in the day, and I'm like, I'm old, there wasn't -- Carin: You're not that old. Anne: Well, probably older than I'd like to admit these days, but it's one of those things where there wasn't groups, there wasn't online groups. There were physical groups, but when you were just getting into voiceover, it was hard to find them. And so this has kind of evolved over the years. And I just love the fact that you guys have provided a resource solely dedicated to business, 'cause I'm a business geek. I'm fully so very excited that you guys are gonna be continuing this and, and this year, even you're having a, a virtual conference and I think an in-person conference, is that correct? Carin: We are. Anne: Cool. Carin: Finally after three years, we're now gonna do a VOcation in person again in New York at Symphony Space in September -- Anne: Nice. Carin: -- of 2022. And our virtual conference eVOcation is gonna be in June. And we're so excited that you're joining us, Anne. Anne: Yes. Thank you. I'm honored and very excited to take part in this for the first year for the virtual conference. I'm excited. Now, Carin, you moved from New York -- Carin: I did. Anne: -- to my neck of the woods, and I, and I'm originally from New York state myself and New Jersey. So now that you are in California, do you miss New York? Do you miss your peeps in New York? . Carin: I miss it so much. Oh my gosh. We left at the very beginning of the pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Carin: It was so crazy in New York at the very start. Anne: Yes, oh, I know. Carin: You know, we have two little kids and being in our little 800 square foot apartment with one bathroom and a potty training toddler and a baby and no backyard was like just impossible . So we bought a house sight unseen and moved to Southern California, and this sounds really dumb. And I feel like maybe this is a bit of hyperbole, but it, I felt almost like, like a refugee. Like we left without saying goodbye to anyone. Anne: Yeah, right. Carin: Because we couldn't see anyone, and we just kind of bought a house and packed up our stuff and left within a few weeks, and we were not planning on it. And so for the first like year that were here in California, I love it. My family's close by, the weather's beautiful. The kids absolutely love it. But if I would see a picture of the New York skyline -- Anne: Oh I know . Carin: -- I just would burst into tears. Anne: Yeah. Carin: I just, I miss it so much. And what I miss about it most is the community of people that we built there. Anne: Yeah. Carin: Because voice actors of NYC, we were doing two or three in-person events a month with like 50 to 100 people every event. And they were almost all donation based. So, you know, a teacher would come, and people would just pay what they could. And then the teacher would take the whole donation amount except for the space rental. And you know, we got to know each other, like we would eat each other's cooking when we had a potluck, and we knew each other's family, and we met each other's spouses. And it was just such a beautiful, wonderful community. And I'm so excited to do VOcation in New York and to see my New York family again, 'cause I just, I miss them all so much. Anne: I definitely miss New York. There's something about New York that I don't know. I love California. Don't get me wrong. And I'm probably not gonna move back to New York or New Jersey, but I have family back there. So there's really just something magical about it. And I love how you had a community. It reminds me of, you know, one of the reasons when I moved out west, I started the VO Peeps because I wanted a community because I didn't know people, and I wanted to meet people and just start a community out here. So I get that community. I think that's something so important when you are first starting out in this business. It's important to have a sense of community because people helping people in like minded industry, I think it's wonderful that you have a, a group, and that group is also online. And I can really see the sense of family there. You guys take such good care. I'm in a lot of groups, and you guys really take care of your members. And I really admire that about both of you. And you're both really giving people. I noticed that this year there's like a trillion scholarships for the conference. I mean, talk to us a little bit about your scholarships for the conference. Jamie: Well, yeah, it started originally at the very first event when Joe from Voice Actor Websites gave up his speaker fee to a ticket for the following year for someone, and he said, oh, just donate it to someone next year. I don't -- you don't need to pay me, which I thought was really a sweet thing. And then we mentioned that, and then quite organically people started offering, well, I'll pay for a ticket for someone. And then someone else saw that they did that. Then it just sort of snowballed. And then last year I think we had 15 scholarships that we gave out. And then this year we've had 27. Anne: That's amazing. Jamie: So 27 people, yeah, are getting to go to the conference that maybe they probably otherwise wouldn't have gotten to go to. So, you know. Anne: So then let me ask you, because I've also offered scholarships through VO Peeps, and that's not a small thing. There's a lot of work. I mean, I love to be a provider of scholarships if I can, but there's also some work. And I think you guys, in order to just even offer the scholarships, what is the criteria for the scholarship? And then you have to judge, and that's always tough. Carin: So we had 87 people apply for scholarships this year, and Jamie and I read through every single application. And it's just an online form. And you talk a little bit about your journey and voiceover, why you think you would be a good candidate for the scholarship, how you plan to give back to the community, if you get the scholarship, and then anything else we should know. And I have to say it was such a tough decision, and we awarded scholarships based on so many different things. People who had real financial need and seemed like real go-geters. People who've had like a really bad couple of years. People who just filled out their application so well and seemed like just amazing candidates who are just gonna take the next step into voiceover and have great success. It was just a real mix of all of those things. And we came up with 27 people that we agreed on took a little while, but. Jamie: Yeah, we had a whole process that we had to go through to get to that point. Anne: I had a score sheet. And I love that you based it on financial need. And I, I really am a big proponent of offering scholarships to help people that really need it. And even if, like you said, if they've had a couple of tough years and judging that those entries are so difficult. I actually would have a different judging panel every year, which I never disclosed, but it became work for people. And I'm so grateful for the people that helped in the judging of that all because it is a lot of work. And, and I thought for myself, for me to just judge, it was tough without having someone else have a -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- another objective view. So I would always get a team of people who would volunteer their time to judge. And so I love, love, love that you guys are doing scholarships and just, it warms my heart, it really does because I haven't had, uh, VO Peeps scholarship in, in the last year because I've kind of gotten on board with some other scholarships. And so I still once a year, try to give out scholarships for VO Peeps, for people that have a financial need. So kudos to you for that. So let's talk about your lineup this year. Who do you got coming? Yeah. And what sort of topics are you gonna be talking about? Carin: Well, we have a lot of great people. Maria Pendolino of course is a rockstar. She's coming back. Anne: She is. Carin: Anne: Total rockstar. Carin: She's gonna give a talk called Non-broadcast Genre is the Foundation of Your House. Anne: oh, nice. Carin: Which is great. Anne: Love it. Love it. Jamie: I feel that's up your street, Anne . Carin: Yeah. I'm gonna be, uh, interviewing Mark Guss about the agent client relationship. Mark Guss of course is a manager at ACM talent, but he's been an, an agent as well. Amazing guy. We have a panel on all of the freelancer websites, including Fiverr and Upwork and -- Anne: Okay. Carin: -- what they mean for our industry. And is there a way to use them ethically? Anne: Sure. Love it. Carin: We have a -- yeah. We have a working pros panel. What else do we have, Jamie? Jamie: I think you should have prepped people that you were gonna say the Fiver word, 'cause if someone's driving while they're listening to this, they'll probably just crash their car. Carin: Yeah, that panel is called We Don't Talk About Fiverr, No, No. Anne: But we do, but we should. Jamie: We should. Anne: I think we should. Carin: We don't talk about Fiverr. Anne: I'm kinda on board with that. I think there's too many people that aren't talking about it. Carin: Yeah. Anne: And there's too many people that don't talk about other things like synthetic voices. And I think that that's important. Carin: Yeah. Anne: Because how do we prepare ourselves for that -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- influence in our industry? So, I mean, you can't ignore Fiverr. It's there. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: And other assorted, you know, maybe freelance communities that are maybe not desirable in some people's eyes. I think like you said, Carin, there's multiple paths. Carin: Exactly. Anne: And I am not here to judge. To be honest. I mean, we run our own businesses. I think that there's principles that we should all maybe try to strive for and knowing your worth, which is I think at the top of the list, I think that that's definitely something that you have to understand, but then we all run our own businesses. Carin: I think so much of knowing your worth just comes from an education. Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Carin: When I started, I didn't even know that there were agents that were sending people out for auditions. Like, I didn't know there was a union that I was supposed to join. I didn't know anything. All I knew is that I did a Google search and I found these online casting sites, and they were offering $100 for only a 30-second commercial? That's like, so little time. Right? I just had no idea Anne: I get it. Carin: I had no idea what the rates were. Anne: So totally get that. Carin: Yeah. And that's how people start. They go on Fiverr because that's like the thing to do if you're a freelancer, and they don't know about the GVAA rate guide. Anne: Right. Carin: They don't know that you're supposed to be getting higher rates. And I think when you know, then you charge more. Anne: Yeah. Carin: So I think is a huge part of it. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And we can't fault people for not knowing what the industry standards are. The only thing we can do is educate, you know, lovingly guide them to charge more if they can. Anne: I agree. I got on the pay-to-plays back when they were first starting and they worked for me. But before the pay-to-plays, there was freelancer.com. And I don't even know if it was called that, but that was, if you wanna talk about people who underbid in order to get a job, the earliest freelancer was people would go post their jobs, and the person that bid the lowest won. And I was on that. I'm not saying that could be considered the Fiverr of today maybe. Carin: Yeah. Anne: But I didn't know. Carin: Right, exactly. Anne: And again, it was, I didn't have the education. There weren't the online communities like there were, and I found out and I learned thankfully, you know, that I was worth and I was worthy of charging a fair rate. And ultimately I evolved into the mindset, know your worth. And I think as influencers with the podcast that we are putting out there as a resource, with the conferences, eVOcation, I think that it's wonderful that we are putting out resources to educate people about knowing their worth. And that's all we can do really . Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's only part is part of the offering as well. So you may hear discussions about Fiverr and Freelancer and what have you. And, and then you learn about some of the other avenues, direct marketing. And then you determine where your journey, where your path lies. That's sort of the, the beauty of this, this industry. And you know, with some of the online discussions, particularly not to make this all about Fiverr, but with some of the online discussions, you, you even mention that, and you're immediately pounced upon, you know? Anne: Oh, I know. Jamie: There is no discussion -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Jamie: -- why it's bad, et cetera. But the other thing is that for me, I think if you've been in the industry for five plus years, you don't know what it's like to start in 2022. The landscape is different now to how it was five plus years ago. So we really should have those discussions to educate us who are more established as to what the lay of the land is in a sort of earlier phase. So yeah, we got a whole bunch of stuff. We got casting panels, rates and usage. Anne: Wow. Jamie: You're teaching the email marketing class, and social media, we've got Natalie. Carin: Yeah. Natalie Natus. She's so great. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: She's an audiobook narrator who has like just kind of exploded on TikTok and -- Anne: Fantastic. Carin: -- very funny and wonderful. So she's talking about social media, all good stuff. Jamie: And we've got Voice Actor Websites' crew talking all about how to optimize your website and separately, how to work your SEO because they're two sides of the same coin, but you can't have one without the other, if you really wanna, you know, your website to work. So yeah. There's other stuff too, but we won't go through everything. . Anne: Well, it sounds like a fantastic lineup. And what are those dates? Jamie: eVOcation is June 10th, 11th and 12th. Carin: Yes. Anne: Got it. Jamie: Three days. Anne: Your in-person one, you're kind of scoping out for the fall, is that correct? Carin: We have the dates actually, September 10th and 11th. Anne: Fantastic. Carin: In New York city. And I'm pretty sure tickets are gonna go on sale in July for that one. So keep an eye out, and we actually have another kind of secret thing that we'll announce at the conference as well about something coming up in 2023. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: We won't tell you here, but it's a fun secret. Jamie: It's just a tease. Carin: This is just a tease. Anne: I love secret things. Carin: Yes. Anne: All right. Jamie: Tease from the broccoli. Anne: I'm so excited BOSSes. Really, this is a conference I think everybody should go to this conference. Everybody in voiceover should go to this conference. Jamie: I agree. Anne: It's just, yeah. Such a wonderful resource for the community. Thank you, guys, so much for doing this, for your generosity. You guys are just amazing for being such a support in the community. I really appreciate that. I see it all the time. You guys are just so wonderfully supportive and that is a wonderful thing. So my last question would be, if you guys had one tip to give to the BOSSes about being successful in their voiceover career, what would that be? Carin: I would say my best tip is find the thing that works well for you and works well for your brain and lean in to that. So if you find that you absolutely love direct marketing, lean into that and do it to the best of your ability. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, of course, but really, really put focus and attention and love into that. If you find that you love auditioning, put your focus and attention and love into that and find the thing that makes you love voiceover and makes you love going to work every day and lean into that thing. And that will help you to love your job and be successful. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. And I've been thinking a lot lately, well, the last of year or so about how I interpret specs, and I've sort tried to change my approach to it. Rather than trying to twist myself into a pretzel to be the person that I think they want me to be, I use them as just ingredients into the soup of my brain that is trying to interpret what this project is. And then I give them my natural, authentic interpretation of that and the most real thing that I can offer, rather than getting too hung up the adjectives and the references and things like that. So I know that's not to do with business, but it's just something I've been thinking about a lot lately. And I saw an immediate uptick in bookings as a result of changing that mindset. Anne: Awesome. That's awesome. No, I think that's amazing. Thank you, guys. If anybody wants to get in touch, if the BOSSes wanna get in touch with you, how can they get in touch with you guys individually? And also what again is that URL for the conference, should they want to buy tickets? Carin: Yes. If you want to buy tickets for the conference, you can go to VOcationconference.com, and I am @CarinGilfry at -- on all the socials. Jamie: And I am Jamie Muffett on Instagram and all that jazz. And you can find my website, JamieMuffettVO.com. Anne: Thank you so much. And again guys, eVOcation tickets are on sale. Go get them, very important, BOSSes. I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor. ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like we are today. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Carin: Bye. Thank you. Jamie: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions are a voice actor's work day in and day out. Anne & Pilar understand how important auditions are and how much time goes into crafting one that will catch the attention of casting directors. They discuss spending time with your copy, researching the product, adding smile to your slate, respecting the concept, and more…to get you auditioning like a total #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you today? Pilar: I'm exhausted. Anne: You know what, I am too. And I have a question for you in regards to that, why? Pilar: Yes? Anne: Why Pilar? Pilar: Why am I exhausted? Funny you should ask that, Anne, funny you should ask that. I was up until all hours doing my auditions. Anne: Oh man. Why is it that every agent I know sends auditions at like 5:00 or 6:00 PM, when at the end of the day I am literally, I'm done. I'm like, I'm exhausted, my performance, and that's a big thing, Pilar, for me. I've got to have energy enough for performance and thought and acting, and I'm exhausted at the end of the day. And I'm like, oh no, because there's a decision, right? Do I do it at night when I'm tired and I've got to rev myself up or do I wait in the morning where I know I'm really good, but then my voice is like this, it's very low. Perhaps I can't get back down there again. Pilar: Yes. This is really true. It's kind of six of one, half dozen of the other. I really look at auditions as it's, it's work. Anne: Yes, it is work. Pilar: You know, auditions are what we do. It is the work. A good friend of mine said audition is the work and acting is what I get to do once in a while. Anne: It's our job. Pilar: Auditions are the job. Exactly. And so I like to look at auditions as sometimes I go, oh yeah, right, time to make the donuts, time to do the auditions. But other times I really like to look at them as an adventure. Anne: Yeah, like a puzzle. That's me. It's a challenge. Pilar: What is the adventure? Where's the story that I'm going on? And this may sound odd, but I have learned so much about people and about different themes just from auditions. Because when they tell you, okay, go here on, look on YouTube. Here's this reference, look at this. And then you look at it and you go, oh, wow. I didn't know about this product. I didn't know this woman had done this. Some of the images that they send you are so heart-wrenching and, and I just go, wow. I would never have known that if I hadn't auditioned. So I always try to look at the positive. [sings] "You gotta accentuate the positive." And um, yeah. I know everything is a song for me. It's really ridiculous. It's just what it is. It's a song or it's a jingle. Anne: Right? I think of you now every time I climb in my studio and I'm singing, and I'm like, yeah, I bet Pilar's singing right now. She's singing the audition. But -- Pilar: Yeah, pretty much. Anne: -- I always like to go at auditions with a strategy, right? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I try to do something that I think that nobody else will do because in my head immediately, right, when I read the script, I'm hearing something that maybe I've heard on television before. I've heard a melody. And again, I want to make sure that I'm selected for the job. I want to get the gig. So I want to really figure out how I can be unique in that audition. And that's what most people say, what's a good strategy for auditioning, well, bring yourself to the party, do something unique, because casting directors and by the way, for anybody who's never cast before, I strongly encourage it. If you guys have an accountability group or you work out with peers, run your own casting. Because that will help you to understand what casting directors go through. I literally -- only takes one, one example, one test where you're listening to maybe a couple, even 20. Even if you just listen to like 20 auditions in a row for the same piece of copy, you're gonna find things that stand out to you and things that don't. Pilar: It's so interesting because I had the opportunity, I had to cast, uh, something, but it wasn't for a voice at all. It was for some artwork. And I was very specific, very specific in the directions. And I had this one person who basically fought me every step of the way, because we could have that interaction, which you don't usually have when you're doing voiceover auditions. But he would ask me questions and I would answer them. And every time -- I would say, this is what I need, I need one sketch. And then he would go off on a tangent and present 10. And I was like, did you not read the directions? This is what I want -- Anne: But no. Pilar: But no, exactly. And so it's -- I think the one thing that I learned from casting is casting directors, they are looking for you. They are looking for your voice, and it may not be in this particular audition or in the next one or in the next one or in the next one. But they are looking for you. So you need to present your best work and think of that. Anne: And impress them. Pilar: And impress them. Not by trying to please them, because that's another big trap that people fall into that I've fallen, fallen into so many times. Anne: What a good point. Pilar: It's not about what do they want? You know, it's like when they say we're looking for a Scarlett Johansson or Sigourney Weaver type, which I get all the time -- Anne: Yup, yup, me too. Pilar: -- they're not looking for Scarlett Johansson. They're not looking for Sigourney. It's for an essence. Anne: Right. Pilar: So watch her movies, watch their movies, listen to them. You don't need to ape them. You don't need to try to copy them exactly. But listen for their attitude. And you have to develop that attitude when you go into the booth to record. Now, everyone has a different strategy, right? Like some people print the auditions. Some people just underline, they bold. Some people just do it. Boom. They just go ahead and they go and they read, and they read a couple of times. Whatever it is that your process is, you want to try different things. You know? So you want to maybe read it a few times or maybe walk around with it. And I think in an earlier episode we mentioned singing. Anne: Of course, sing it to get you into a different frame of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Or do it like in workouts. When I do animation workouts, our teacher will say, okay, do it as if you were Cruella de Vil. And it's completely opposite, you know, and you're doing like the straight commercial copy for Charles Schwab. But when you get out of yourself -- Anne: As Cruella. Pilar: -- as Cruella, and then all of a sudden, you dive into the copy again, and it's a completely different read. Anne: Going back to the one point, which I think is almost possibly more important than, than your voice, and that is following directions. Pilar: Yes. Oh my God, yes. Anne: I wanted to revisit that. I wanted to add some commentary to that, understanding that I do some casting myself and also work with students. And so I have a number of people that I'm working with at any given time, so that when there are instructions on how to do something and perhaps where to put the audition, how to name the audition, and then there's a naming convention. Oh my goodness. That is so, so important because here's what happens if you're not following directions. First of all, I can't find your file. And if I can't find your file, I'll spend all that time, if I'm with you as a student, searching for that file, and that's your time that you've paid me for. So number one, you're kind of digging into your own time, if I cannot find the file that I've asked you to present. And also if it's not named correctly, it's not going to show up correctly in my computer. So again, I'll be hunting for something and taking up time that you have paid me for during our session. And/or if I'm casting, you've just taken up my time. And just at that point, because I've already asked you to do something, and you didn't follow directions, then I really have -- I've got a taste, kind of not a good taste in my mouth of you as an actor. Right? Pilar: Yeah, there's more of a possibility you're going to ignore the, the audition. Oh my God, fine. Whatever. Anne: I'll toss it right out the door. Sometimes it really depends because I could have 200 people, 300 people vying for that. And the people that have not followed directions, right, if I can't get to that audition quickly enough, or if I've specifically asked for something, and you've not been able to show that you can follow directions, well then how do I know you're going to be able to be directed? And that is, I want to say one of the biggest things. I think when we're auditioning for our agents and we're doing the job of auditioning, we're imagining what it sounds like, and we're trying to please, like you were mentioning before. We're trying to please the director is, this is what it should sound like. But in reality, we have to showcase so much more than that. We have to showcase our acting ability because what you hear in the commercial, when it finally runs, may not be what you auditioned with. And trust me, I think more casting directors are looking for the actor and not the sound that's in your head that you're mimicking. Pilar: Yup, yup, right. Anne: So they want to see that you can act and whether or not they direct you to that same audition in the final spot, if you get it, that's neither here nor there really. So -- and I heard a very well-known agent the other day that said, what you hear on TV is not necessarily what got you the job. Pilar: And something else, I mean, my agents are relentless when they say this, and they get this from the casting directors. I've been out here for almost three years now. And it amazes me that I still see the same language, which means people are not following directions. So when they say do not slate, we don't want anything. Don't start talking about yourself. I'm like, are you kidding me? You're sitting there talking about where you're from and you're trying to sit there and interact with the people who are going to hear it. Right? Anne: That's people trying to make things unique. Right? Pilar: Yes. Anne: So, yeah. So you've got to be careful, when all of the good advice is make yourself unique, that doesn't mean making yourself unique when you're not following directions. If people say, please don't slate, don't slate. That's not going to make you unique if you slate. So follow those directions. And then when it comes to the actual copy, then yes, I would say, be creative, bring yourself to the party and showcase your acting skills. Because a good casting director is going to be able to hear that like from note one, from the very first word. They're going to be able to tell if you're a great actor. And that is something that is attractive because when it comes time to actually laying down the spot, I mean, if you're lucky, they'll use your audition. But if they decide they want to lay down the spot later on and live direct you, they know that that's going to be a thing that they can do with you. They can direct you, you can be directable. So that is super important and follow all of those instructions. And you know what? Don't, don't follow the instructions because that way I'll have a better chance, right? That's the way I think, you know what, fine. You don't want to follow directions. Cool. Then my audition gets listened to and yours doesn't, so. Pilar: And here's something that's really interesting -- exactly -- that I learned actually recently, when they say, be creative again, you label. You slate or you don't slate. Within the boundaries of the competition itself, when you're auditioning, you can go ahead and be creative, but here's something -- there's a caveat to that. There might be like ums and ahs. You know, you, you can do something straight for your first take and then do a second take. And you want to be careful that one is different from the other, because you don't want to send them almost the exact same take. 'Cause then they're like, well, what's the difference? So if you have something that you think you can offer to them that is going to make them slow down and go, oh, okay. She can do this now. Or he can do this. Great. If you don't, just give them one take. I took a class the other day with a SAG-AFTRA foundation, SAG-AFTRA union members listening to this. There's some great free webinars. I heard this voice actor who's also casting director talk about -- he asked us, okay, who is the person who makes the decision? And there was a bunch of categories and the agent, the casting director, the producer. Nobody got the answer right, which was that the copywriter is the one who makes the decisions. Now that is open to interpretation. But I thought that that was really interesting. Anne: Oh, that's very interesting. Well, the copywriter is hired to write that voice in his head. Right? Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Represent the brand. And so I've always agreed. If you can get yourself into the copywriter's head and understand where they were, and you can figure that out and audition with that in mind, because it's going to fit nicely into the spot. 'Cause sometimes, you know, the spot, you know, has the video been completed. And the last thing they're doing is putting in the voice. Is there a scratch track already there? We don't know these things. Sometimes we have a storyboard. Sometimes we don't. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten an audition where there's absolutely nothing with it. There's no storyboard. I look at it and go, my goodness. What is that even about? And that's where your, your initial investigation into the brand, if you know what it is, can really help. Google is your friend, and that can really help you to understand the brand and how they are selling to their current clients, their potential clients. So that can help give you an idea. But I love that, like, who is it that hires you? Because that's such an interesting perspective because is it the copywriter who wrote the piece of copy? Is it the casting director, right, who is casting the project, or is it the client? So let's send in our audition, right, to our agent. The agent then shortlists us or not. Right? I don't know. It depends. You don't necessarily know if that audition got sent out to five of you or maybe 250, although sometimes that's easy to tell with certain agents where it seems like it's a big cattle call. But sometimes your agent and, and I'm sure, depending on the agent, if they know you very well, they're going to send it out to just a few people that they know would be great. So they've already in a way cast, right, your agent. And even if they cast the net far and wide, when they get those auditions back, they're listening to them, they might shortlist and then give that list to the client to make a decision. Pilar: Right. It could be interesting to know who it is that makes the decision. But really the reason I said that is because you have to respect the copy. Whether it's good or whether it's bad, whoever wrote it or whether -- that's your opinion. Somebody wrote that and somebody was hired professionally to professionally write that, and you have to respect their words. Anne: And every word is there for a reason. Pilar: Exactly. Because these people have worked on that thing for months and months and months and months. Anne: And look at us, coming in our studio for like maybe a minute, looking at the copy, and then making a decision as to what it means. Pilar: Exactly and saying, oh yeah, I'm going to change this because I don't really like that. It's like, no, no, that's not our job. Anne: Or not even that is to interpret it, but to take some time. I know people that just come in and they're like, okay, I got it. They read it. And they haven't taken any time to really digest the copy or to even try to analyze and see what's the idea, are there innuendos, is there like a double entendre? You know, what is it actually talking about? What does the visual look like at this time? And even if you don't know, and you never do know, if you make some assumptions and try to really analyze it a little bit more than just a few seconds, that's going to really help change your read. Pilar: Yeah. Because the voice is going to give a life to what you're seeing if it's a TV spot, for example. If it's radio, your voice is everything. Your voice has to be able to portray all these things. It's our job as voice actors to really take the time and note, what is the story we're telling? What is the beginning, middle and end? Because every piece of copy really, it's like a little one act play. And it, whether it's 15 seconds or it's a 10-page narration, there is a story. And it's our job to sift through that and to make our decisions, how to navigate that. And also by the way, the audition that you're given is usually not the audition that you're going to be doing. Sometimes it's going to be the copy, but sometimes it's not going to be the final thing. 'Cause it'll go through a whole bunch of other rewrites and by the time you get to actually record it. And so a lot of the times, if you're not careful, you can fall into traps. There are crumbs showing you the way. But if you sit there and you say, oh yeah, I'm just going to do the copy. I'm going to get into the booth and just read it, and it'll be great, you're going to fall into those traps. So that's another reason why we have to take our time with the copy, underline, try a different ways, see where the meanings are, see where those little trapdoors are. Anne: Tell me about the traps, expand on those traps. Like you just want to fall into a particular melody of what you think it should sound like versus there's actually a meaning behind the few words -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- right, that you haven't bothered to really investigate or to analyze. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: So I have a Spanish audition coming up, and I have to have an accent where it's sort of the equivalent of like a Southern accent. Anne: Interesting. Let's actually talk about that because I mean, obviously as a bilingual voiceover actor, there's lots of different opportunities that you have, if it's going to be English speaking or Spanish speaking, or maybe it's going to be cast for both. Let's talk a little bit about your auditioning techniques for that. Are the casting specs always for, I need a Spanish talent or are they more like we need an English that has a Spanish accent? Or what are you finding in the casting specs, first of all, that call for bilingual talent? Pilar: You know, it varies. Most of the times it's divided. So you're either going to get Spanish or you're going to get, here's the Spanish copy. But once in a while you will get a bilingual audition. So it's the copy in English and in Spanish. Anne: So you would get cast for the same thing in both languages, right? Pilar: Yep, yep, absolutely. And that doesn't happen very often, but it's happening more and more that a client wants to hear the same voice in both languages. And I don't know if this happens to all bilingual voice artists, but it's, it's just really funny. It's a totally different sensibility, when you read a commercial in English and you read the words in Spanish, it just is, the musicality is different. The rhythm is different, the attitude is different. And I can't really explain why that is. I just know it. Anne: Well, you have to know the culture, I think, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: I mean, to be a, an effective bilingual talent, right? There has to be some native speaking there or growing up in a particular region or whatever other language that is. I would imagine more and more casting directors are looking for native speakers so that they can probably know that about the demographic. Pilar: Yeah, because you would think that a translation would be the same, but it's not the same thing. So you really have to kind of get into the character of this person who speaks Spanish versus the person who speaks English. And it's just a little, kind of a little switch, but there's a flavor to each piece of copy. So you have to bring your personality, even if it's in a different language to that copy. Anne: I would imagine that if they're having you do both English and Spanish, there might be some timing issues just because of the language difference. Like let's say it's a 30-second spot or something like that. And they're trying to have the same message, but yet the translation usually it takes a whole lot longer than an English version, let's say. And so do you run into issues like that where they have to re-write the copy or cut some of the copy for the other language or both languages? Pilar: Well, that's not my job -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- to do that. So I try to stay away from that. I used to be very, very concerned about the timing 'cause I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is -- because Spanish, it always takes three words to say the same thing in English, uh, for one word. So now I don't really worry about that as much. And if I go over, I go over, and again, it's just an audition. Anne: Right. Pilar: If they're being very specific, which I have had as well, you have to fit it into 30 seconds, I try to speed it up as much as possible before I sound like a chipmunk. And then I'll, you know, because I mean, sometimes I do and it's just kind of crazy. And I'll just tell my agent. Anne: That's like me in automotive. Right? Because they always throw in like so many more words than I can do in this 15 or 30-second. And so -- Pilar: Especially the legal, especially the legal. Anne: Well, by the time you get all the words in there, you have no room for emotion or nuance, you know, and it's just -- Pilar: Or breath. Anne: Or breath, exactly. So you're pretty much just like, blablblabla, you know, and that's it, which is always crazy to me. But so for the majority then let's say if your auditions, you're getting them in maybe English with an accent, or you're getting just a particular style of Spanish that you're auditioning for? Pilar: You know, I get everything. And it's really funny. 'Cause when I go and I do spots, because I've, I've done, let's say back to back English spot and Spanish spot. So then we'll be recording. We'll do the English spot, we'll do the Spanish spot and then they'll come back and they'll say, can you do the English spot with a little bit of an accent? And I'm like, really? And I'm like, okay, great, sure. You want that? It kind of depends. So if they ask for it, I do give them a little bit of an accent because you know, my mother has an accent. Pretty much all my relatives have accents. So I can just go to that little voice bank for that. Anne: So are you slating in an accent or in Spanish? Pilar: Only when the, the entire copy is in Spanish do I slate as Pilar Uribe, instead of Pilar You-ribe. When it's obviously something that they want some Spanish for -- like, I do a lot of work for spots that speak English, but they have sprinklings of, of words. So they need somebody who knows how to say those words in Spanish. So I'll always slate in my just, you know, Pilar Uribe. But for a Spanish speaking audition where only Spanish is spoken, I do say my name in Spanish. 'Cause I know that the person listening is, if they're not a native speaker, they speak it fluently. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: So they're going to understand what I'm saying. 'Cause if I say Pilar Uribe, most of the people are going to go, huh? Anne: Right, right. Actually, when I used to work at, um, in radio at NPR in Miami, they would say, no, no, we want you to speak. We want you to say your name the way you say it. And I was like, oh, okay. That's kind of a switch, because I always say, you know, if I try to say Pi-lar Uribe, people still don't get it. So I always just say, Pilar You-ribe. And I get Mylar, people call me Laura. And you know, it's not a common word, Pilar, but for auditions, yeah. You can get away with saying your name. And in fact, when you slate, something that I like to do is I like to smile a little bit and do a slight shrug of my shoulders. So I go, so one way, for example, I'll say my name one way, Pilar Uribe, two Pilar Uribe, Pilar Uribe. So I just smiled a little bit and I shrugged my shoulders and that completely changes the attitude. Anne: Yep, sure does. Sure does. Pilar: Especially when you're doing a serious commercial copy or narration or a video game, it just kind of gives them, it shows them a little split second personality. Anne: A little bit of your personality. Yep, exactly. And I think that's important. It's the first words that they hear, so. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Those are great tips, Pilar. Wow. We could probably go on about auditioning for like a whole other episode. Pilar: We could. Anne: Yeah, we could. Great tips. Thanks so much. Fantastic, BOSSes. So next time you audition, make sure you give it a little bit of time before you rush in there and start voicing everything. Do some research, give a shrug, have a little bit of a smile in your slate. Make sure you follow those directions. BOSSes, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to a brand new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can find out more by visiting 100voiceswhocare.org. Pilar: Ooh, I'm going to check that out. 100voiceswhocare.org. Anne: Yup. So this is a great way to make a difference without having to make a huge commitment. So you guys, check it out, make sure to check that out. Also big shout out to sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect a network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Go forth and do all the wonderful auditions, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye. Pilar: Hasta la vista, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

As a voice actor, you are often given the power (and burden) of setting your own rates. Now, where to begin? Anne & Pilar have been through taking low paying gigs, walking away from jobs, and even getting their way in financial negotiations. It all comes down to knowing your worth. Tune in to learn how to navigate price setting, negotiating with clients, finding strength in community, and getting paid as much as you are worth like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and with me today is very, very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar!   Pilar: Aloha. Anne: Hello, how are you? Pilar: I'm doing great today. And how are you doing? Anne: I am doing good. I'm doing really good. Except, ugh, I had a client that I had to let go the other day. Pilar: Why? Anne: Well, it was a new client that we were in a negotiation phase, and they wanted to kind of lowball me on a job. And it just turned out that what they wanted to pay, what their budget was, just did not align with where I am. And I was really standing tall and standing by what I'm worth. And I think that's a very valuable lesson that we should talk about for the BOSSes today is to know your worth. It is so very important. It's so hard to say no, to walk away from a client. Like it's terrifying I think for anybody starting out in the industry, right, to give up on an opportunity, especially when you felt like, well, I'm just getting started. I need the experience. Pilar: I wish I had known you when I was getting started, because I can't tell you how many times that happened to me. And it's interesting that you bring this up, Anne, because a lot of the times when we are starting out or let's say, you know, we've worked -- I did a lot of dubbing where the rates were standardized in Miami. Anne: So you didn't negotiate it. They were just, this is what we're paying you. Pilar: Exactly. So it's like, take it or leave it. And I was like, okay. But I think that voice actors sometimes think that there's something wrong with them because they don't know how to negotiate. And I think it's so important because this is such an industry where there is no standard set of -- there is a standard set of rates, yes, for the industry, but everybody offers a different price. So it really is up to you, the voice actor to figure out what it is that you are worth and to know how to negotiate. And so it's a skill that's learned. You may go into it, not knowing how to negotiate, but that doesn't make you any less of a voice actor. It's just, it's, it's a skill that has to be learned and it takes time. It's not something that happens immediately. Anne: It does. I think it's a skill that takes a little bit of practice. And I think you just have to be courageous. You have to be brave. And first of all, I want to just separate out, if you have an agent, the agent's job is to negotiate on your behalf, which is amazing. I love my agents who negotiate on my behalf. That's what they do. They get the work and then they negotiate the best price for us. And they're looking out for our best interests, hopefully for the most part, right? They're looking out for us getting the best price for who we are so they know what we're worth. So think about it. If you're put in a position where you are negotiating, and this job may not have come through an agent and you're got somebody that's inquiring on your website, I'd like to use your voice for this particular job, how much, that's where you have to stand firm in understanding that you are worthy of a fair market price, and a great place to go find out a baseline of rates is of course the GVAA, right? Who doesn't love the GVAA rate guide. There's also Gravy for the Brain. They have some good international rates there and SAG-AFTRA too. Pilar: SAG by the Numbers is the website. And I think that going to those different places gives you a gauge. So that will give you the confidence to be able to say, okay, this is how much I can command. Instead of taking the number out of a hat or allowing somebody to steam roll you. Anne: Yeah. It gives you a baseline. And I think too, the first time you say no, and then you're terrified, right, when you say no, or you walk away, and you're like, oh my gosh, I'll never get work in this town again. Because I've either made an assumption that is too large of a number, and everybody's laughing at me now because they're like, no, I can't pay that number -- that is part of the negotiation game, really. And you have to know that even if you're a beginner, you deserve as much as I do. I think we all deserve as much as the next person in terms of rates. Because there's so many new performers or new businesses, new voiceover artists that come to the game and say, well, I don't have the experience. You're not being hired for your experience. As a matter of fact, you're being hired for your voice and your performance. And your voice is just as worthy as my voice. So don't feel as though you cannot charge the same rate as I can. And I'm a big proponent of that because if you're not, and you're trying to undercut because you either feel you're not worthy, or maybe you just want to get the job, that doesn't do any favors to the industry either, bidding low. Because in reality, it's a market perception. I want to always bring it back to lipsticks or shoes. I have certain brands that I love, and I spend money for those brands. Let's say, maybe not lipstick or shoes, but yes, hair, but let's maybe talk tech, right? My Apple computer, my Apple iPhone. I buy brands and I pay the money. I pay the money. And so think of your voiceover business, the same way. I used to call myself Tiffany's. I don't go on sale. And I don't advertise my brand to be cheap. So anybody out here, you can do the very same. Now I'm not going to price myself out of, you know, I'm not going to be crazy high or anything, but that's where the rate guides come in handy. Right? You get a good baseline, and you take the chance to negotiate with a client. And most of the time, the best question that you can ask for this when you're starting in negotiation is do you have a budget? Okay? So if you're putting the position where they're asking you, how much would it cost? The best question to ask is, do you have a budget? Because sometimes their budget is a whole lot more than you thought. Um, that's happened to me multiple times. Well, I can't go over a $1000. Okay. I'll take that for a two-minute medical narration read. That's awesome. Yeah. I think I can make that work. That's what I've been known to say. And so it's a rule in negotiation that the person who mentions money first is usually the one that loses. So, so, there you go. So always have the question in the back of your head to ask if there is a budget. And then after that, if there is no budget, then go ahead and bid high or on the higher side of the range. Usually the rate guides, right, if you've looked at them, have ranges. Like a five minute corporate read could be $350 to $550 or whatever that is. Bid on the higher end. Because when you're starting a negotiation start high, because then the only place to go is not necessarily higher. Client's not going to say, oh no, let me pay you $800 instead of $500. Usually they're going to negotiate down. So pick the higher number that doesn't price you out of the competition like crazy and stand true to that. Because honestly, Apple doesn't care about, do you know what I mean? They're like your new iPhone is $2,000 or whatever it is, right? It's the price is that. And we choose to accept it or not. And so you as a business, same kind of thing. Pilar: Yeah. 'Cause it's like, when you go in and you buy a dress, and they tell you it's $100 or $500, you're not going to go and say, oh, can I buy $50 for the sleeve? No. Anne: Can I haggle that price? You might be able to haggle the price in some places, but not most stores that are retail. Pilar: Generally it's like, they're not going to sit there and give you half a dress because you're not going to -- Anne: At a garage sale maybe. Pilar: Maybe. Anne: Or consignment. You can negotiate those things down, but -- Pilar: We can start a trend, sleeves, just buying the sleeves. Yeah. But that's generally not going to happen. Anne: I'll take just the sleeve, please. Pilar: Exactly. Something, I think that's important though to mention is knowing your worth, yes, but also knowing your worth as to where you are and not trying to oversell yourself because I've seen this happen over and over where somebody throws out a number and then it turns out that they don't have a professional recording studio, for example. So there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I know, I do know people who've actually worked with their USB mics. Great. So you need to be able to show your potential client, this is my studio. This is what my studio looks like. This is what my noise floor is. This is what my software is, everything. And then that way they know what they're dealing with instead of sort of projecting something that might not be true. Anne: I agree. But I feel that before you're in that position, right, before you're in the position of actually negotiating a job, you're going to make sure, hopefully, that you have a studio that can create great audio. But I totally agree with you there. If you're just starting out and you haven't had anybody evaluate that, that's one thing I think that's important, especially now, since the pandemic. We're all expected to have a quality space where we can generate great audio from. So yeah. Very important. Very important for you guys to know that. And yeah, you're right. There's that argument that demos don't necessarily showcase what your sound is like from the booth. I've actually known people to put sound files on their website. Here's what my booth sounds like, as kind of a precursor. And I actually think that's not a bad idea. I don't have it on my own website right now, but I actually thought about, here's a noise floor or here's a, here's a quick sample from my booth so you know what you're getting. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important to show who you are, because just like when you walk into a store, you're seeing what the ground is like, the arrangement of the clothing, and the register, is the floor clean. So you want to be able to, since you are projecting a business out onto the world stage of voiceover, because you don't know who it's going to be reaching, you know, you want to have your office in order. And then that, that makes it just that much easier to be able to negotiate and to stand up for yourself. Anne: The presentation of a professional. I love that. Because they want to know that they're dealing with a business, right, that takes it seriously. Gosh, that brings up a whole other whole other side of things. So too like your website, right, you should have a domain name that is yourbusiness.com, anneganguzza.com. And that storefront should absolutely showcase who you are to the world professionally. A lot of times when I go to buy a product, right, online -- isn't that what we do all the time? Pilar: We Google people, we Google the product. Anne: We go to the website, we look at the -- if the website looks any kind of cheesy at all or not trustworthy, I don't buy. And so that's such a great thing that you brought up for people to understand that that helps so much in your negotiation, that you are representing yourself as a professional business. And I think it does help also in the negotiation process if, if you're known to be a full-time voice talent. If you're not, you don't necessarily have to state that. You just have to look like this is your business, and this is what you do. Sometimes I'll, if a customer's or a potential client is reaching out to me, I might throw in there full-time voice talent, just so they know that's all I do. Like I'm not, you know, doing three different jobs, and this is my business and this is how I make a living. So that's a -- what a great point that was, Pilar to present professional. Pilar: Yeah. You have to present yourself as a professional because otherwise, you know, you're not going to be taken seriously. You reminded me of when I was in my agent's office for the first time, and they were sweet as can be. And one of them was busy, and she was like, you know, don't pay attention to me because I've got all this stuff to do. Obviously she had a huge job that she had to get out at a certain time. And the only thing she said at the end, she piped up and she said, oh, we've looked at your website. We've listened to all of your material. Anne: Oh, don't you worry. Pilar: And I was like -- and it was just so interesting, 'cause I was like, oh, these people did their homework. So if somebody's looking at your stuff, believe me, they are checking you out regardless of -- Anne: Whether you know it or not. Pilar: Whether you know, but also it's, it's also a question of it doesn't have to be the fanciest thing or it doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles, just like a voiceover booth doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles. The important part is are you producing sound quality where you can literally hear where it's so quiet that you don't even hear a fish fart? I mean, I know of, I know this one very well known voice actor who does promos inside his car, and he is just fixed it so he's got the microphone, he does it in a certain way because a lot of the times he's driving, and he needs to do something. Anne: But yeah, he's not going to audition while he's driving. Just, just, just want to -- Pilar: No, no -- Anne: Just want to say that. Pilar: -- obviously, no he stops on the side of the road. He's out here and he'll have something from New York that's due at a certain time. He will stop on the side of the road. He's got his whole little preparation. I don't know what he does, but he's got a whole preparation. He does it. He sends it off. The promo gets aired that night. So it's really about, can you, you know, can you come up with the goods, and the goods are showing yourself, as you know, as I've been saying -- Anne: As a professional. Pilar: -- as a professional, this is, this is what my space is. This is where you can find my work. It's all here. It's all out on the table. It's, it'll be really easy to find. So you can hire me, and you can negotiate with me because I have all these parts of the puzzle. Anne: All the parts of the puzzle are together. Yeah. That -- absolutely. It's such a cool side piece that you don't think about, right, when you're talking about knowing your worth. I mean, understanding that you're prepared to deliver quality, audio quality performance from a quality storefront or booth, right? And also I am going to go so far as to say that your website says a lot about who you are professionally. And that has a lot to do with the power you can have in negotiation and also helping yourself know your worth. If you yourself are committed to doing this for a living and making money at it, then that is step one of knowing that you are worthy of getting paid for it and getting paid well for it, getting paid fairly. We can only hope that every job we do, we get paid well. And I will tell you, in the beginning, when I first started out in the industry, I didn't have a concept of what my worth was. And to be honest, there wasn't, you know, so long ago that there weren't many groups out there online. Again, this, one of the reasons why I created VO Peeps back in the day was to have a community online that we could talk and say, well, what did you charge? How do you handle negotiation? What is this job worth? And so now we have so many resources available at our fingertips. It only just says to me even more that we have to even more be vigilant about understanding who we are, what we're worth in this industry. And not that we even have to convince, but just showcase that we are worthy of getting paid something that's more than, oh my gosh, something like 8 cents a word. No, not at all. Those jobs exist. And those are the ones that you don't necessarily -- for me, I try not to align myself with jobs like that because if the client doesn't value the service, right, to begin with, and they're putting out budgets that don't value the service -- maybe they truly don't have the budget. But again, I think a budget is all in what you, all in what you make of it, right? I pay good money for certain services so that I can depend on them. And the same thing should be thought of you, right? So if your potential client doesn't value the service that you provide, then maybe you don't want to align yourself with them or work with them because trust me, there will be somebody out there that does value you and the courage that it takes for you to say no to those clients that don't value your services -- once you say no, it gives you the biggest sense of -- well, you're scared and you're terrified, but it allows the door to open for people who do value your services and that leaves the room for them to come in and pay you what you're worth. So I can't tell you -- you'll do it one time. And then that door will open and you will get paid by someone who believes in you and values your worth. And then that will give you all the confidence you need to go and just negotiate and understand your worth and put out those prices, put out those quotes that are worthy of your time, because you spent a lot of money. You spent a lot of time to get to where you are. There's training, there's demos, there's practice, there's you, your personal investment is what people are paying for, right? Your personal investment. And that is worth something. Pilar: Absolutely. I totally agree. Something also that I have found when I used to negotiate back in Miami, is that no doesn't always mean no forever. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because there's a way to stand your ground because a lot of things can happen between the time that a number's thrown out and you walk away. And I've had that happen to me more than once where I don't necessarily say, I'm not going to take any less. I say, this is my price. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And I've learned that from some amazing voiceover people in the industry when I was very, very green and I went to my first couple of conferences. I learned from them that they stand their ground basically. And they just, they stand up for themselves and they say, this is what I charge. And they're very, very specific. And there is room, there is wiggle room, and it is very important to throw out a decent number and not too low, but obviously not out of the range, but when you're in that negotiating stage, I've actually had people come back and say, okay, all right, let's do it. Anne: Yeah. I agree. Pilar: So it's just kind of funny. So it's just, maybe there's also a mental sort of attitude to have about that saying this is who I'm worth. So you're not necessarily closing the door, but basically saying, here, I invite you to partake of my services for this amount. Again, it doesn't happen always, but sometimes there's a door that can stay open. Anne: Sure, absolutely. I totally agree with that. And people might have gone and they had a budget that was lower. And so they went and hired somebody with that lower budget and they weren't as happy. Right? So they come back to you, and that has happened to me multiple times too. And again, it's one of those things where you have to have the confidence, and guys, if you're just starting out and you don't have the confidence, it's okay. We all were there. We were all there once. Right? You just have to take the step. You've got to have the courage to take the step, to stand by what you're worth and walk away if the client doesn't bite. And, and the thing of it is too, usually the clients that are offering a lower price are usually the ones that will nickel and dime you for everything. And I have run into that. I have lowered my price. You know, I've worked with a client's budget. I -- here's my number. We negotiated. And they said, I only have this. And I thought, okay, all right, I'll work with you. And it might've been lower than I would have wanted. At some point you get an idea, a sense of who this client will be. Sometimes clients will just, if they get that low ball price, they're just going to be painful. They're going to be painful clients that will want everything for no money. And you only have to work with a couple of those, like maybe one of them once. And you'll be like, okay, never again, never again, because the amount of time that you spent trying to please that client at that low rate could be better spent working with a client who did value you or does value you and doesn't try to nickel and dime you for a bunch of pickups afterwards. Pilar: You have to know when to walk away. Absolutely. But it's also an attitude that I think is so important. As we've been saying throughout this time, this is what I'm worth, here I am. When you walk into a, an Apple store, you know exactly what you're getting into. Anne: Apple doesn't go on sale, right? Pilar: Exactly. It's like, what you see is what you get. Anne: Chanel lipstick does not go on sale. I'm just saying, I am just saying, I have bought Chanel lipstick before. They do not go on sale. And the funny thing is, is in a way, it makes me relieved because I feel like sometimes when things do go on sale all the time, I'm like, oh my God, let me wait until the right price comes. But Chanel, they're just, I know they're dependable. I love them. They've got my colors. They last, and they're worth the money. And so think of that client hiring you. It's going to be, you know what, Anne, whatever, can you do this job? Sure. Give me an invoice. I love clients like that because that means that you've worked with them enough. They trust you. And they're just like, okay, whatever. They know they're going to get good value from you. And so it is something to be said to work with quality clients, rather than trying to just work your way up. And as I mentioned, I really, in the beginning I did, I didn't know better, but now BOSSes, we can't be the only podcast or the only people who have said know your worth. However, this is just another step where if you've listened to this podcast, you have to know your worth. You have no excuses now to take something that does not pay you what you are worth. And maybe you need the experience of working with a client who may not pay you what you think you're worth. And that's okay, because that's a learning and a growing experience for you. But we're here to tell you that you don't really have to go through that if you don't want to, because you, you are worthy, you are worthy of a fair price. Pilar: Yeah. I think it's really important to visualize yourself as a -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: Just because we are a voiceover, we are a brick and mortar store. We just do it from our own area. But why not visualize yourself as an Apple versus a -- Anne: Tiffany's, Apple, Chanel. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. You don't have to be a 7-11. I mean, 7-11 is great when you're, when you want a Slurpee, but why not visualize yourself as, as you know, this is who I am and this is what I have to offer? Anne: That's so important. I got so excited because you said visualize that you are worthy or manifest. Pilar: Yes. Anne: It's so important, manifest that you are worthy of it. And that will carry you really far, that whole belief and the manifestation that you are worthy of it will carry you really far in this industry. I just had to agree with you wholeheartedly. Pilar: And also that you are a working actor. Anne: Yes. Pilar: That you are a working voiceover actor capable of taking these jobs. I think that people think that when they visualize -- and you know, we could spend a whole podcast on this -- I think people think that when they visualize something, that all of a sudden it's just going to magically like [snaps], like that. That is not what happens when you see yourself and you present yourself. You put it out into the universe; it's not necessarily going to come back immediately, but it does come back. Because if you had told me over 12 years ago that I would be making a living doing voiceover -- Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: -- I would have said, are you kidding? There's no way. I'm an actor. I've done on camera. And I love this business. I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, seeing myself do this. And so there really is something to be said. It does take patience though. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, you know, you, you can get there and you can see yourself taking those steps. And once you're there, you can accept it. You can say, yep, it's done. It's done. And you just, what we're saying about knowing your worth is just that much closer to what it is that you want to accomplish. Anne: Yep. Yep. That successful business. And that's so funny. Like think of when you first started in this business. Did you ever believe -- like when I first started, I didn't really have a thought one way or the other. I just knew that I was passionate about it, and I just kept putting my head down and working. However, I will tell you in the beginning, it was a very different environment because coming from a corporate background, which I came from, you know, where that paycheck was given to me every two weeks or whatever, and I knew that money was coming -- coming into the entrepreneurship, and now all of a sudden being put in a position where I had to negotiate, my price was, oh my goodness. Like before people told me what I was worth, because I got a paycheck for it. Now it was me there to determine what was my worth. It's so interesting to go from the mentality of here, I've arranged a salary, and I work for this particular salary, and that's what I'm worth, to an environment and an entrepreneurship where I am determining what is my worth. That's a whole big pedagogical shift in your brain. And so yes, it takes time to learn how to do that. And it's okay guys. Just remember, there's always clients out there. I think if you make a choice, and you're brave, and you walk away from one client, there's always another client around the corner that opens the door for more clients and more work. You just have to manifest, and believe, and take that leap of faith. Pilar: Something definitely that you can learn to do. Anne: Good stuff, good stuff. Wow. So BOSSes, know your worth. You are worthy. So on that note, if you also want to make a difference and use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world, that will give back to the communities that are close to you, you can find out more and how to do that at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Wonderful, wonderful new sponsor. BOSSes, literally it takes less than a dollar a day, and you can make a humongous difference in a local organization of your choice. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. Also, thank you so much to our amazing sponsor ipDTL, because I get to talk to Pilar every week, and we get to talk about really cool things about how wonderful you guys all are and how we are worthy. We are worthy. Much, much support, and thanks to ipdtl.com. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Goodbye, guys. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you know the difference between dubbing, ADR, walla walla, and looping? In this episode, Anne & Pilar cover it all. Since the pandemic, there has been a boom in content creation globally. Dubbing movies & TV shows into other languages, and creating audio descriptions for the visually impaired has made content much more accessible and given voice artists more work! Stay tuned for Pilar's experience with voice dubbing + Anne's tricks for lending your voice artistry to on-screen performances like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest cohost, Pilar Uribe. Pilar. How are you today? Pilar: Hola, Anne. ¿Cómo estás? Anne: Ah, tired. I am tired. Pilar. You know, why? Pilar: Why? Anne: Because I binged watched the entire season of "Succession" last night and ah, oh my gosh. Pilar: It's so good. Anne: So good. Pilar: So many cliffhangers. Anne: I know. Oh my gosh. Pilar: Yeah. I loved it. Anne: And I'll tell you what, sometimes I stay up later than my husband, so I'm always putting on subtitles. And when I put on subtitles, it makes me think of all these shows now that are coming out in streaming media, and dubbing, and ADR and all of these techniques that are coming out and really offering a lot of jobs these days to people in the VO industry. And I thought we should talk about dubbing and ADR for a little bit. What do you think? Pilar: Yup. Dubbing is very close to my heart. Anne: Oh my goodness, and it's just since the pandemic, just an explosion of so much content and media, and you have had some experience dubbing. I personally have not had much at all. I went to a training class on dubbing, but talk to me about dubbing because that's something I think you actively do, right? Pilar: Yes. Yes. That's where I got started in voiceover. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I did like two series in Colombia. There were animated, but I actually cut my teeth on dubbing. Dubbing is a skill like any other, and it requires being a good actor. Anne: Wait, back that truck up again and say that very important, right? When you watch dubbing shows and of course, what is the latest one? When people are talking about the quality of the dubbing, there is something that was recently released, and we don't have to name it, but there was talk about how the dubbing was not great. There was not great actors. So I think acting is so, so important to be a good dubbing actor. Pilar: Well, if you want to see examples of bad dubbing, just go to the Godzilla movies. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: It's hysterical. Anne: You're right. Pilar: Those are so funny to watch. But since Netflix has -- and HBO as well and uh, and Amazon, since they have entered the marketplace, uh, you know, over the past couple of years, and when I started back in two thousand... I guess I started dubbing in 2010, Netflix, wasn't really doing that much. They've been doing more and more in HBO, and Netflix is just all over the place. They have so much content. So one of the things that they look for is, yes, are you a good actor? Because you have to be able to portray what is being said in whatever language it is, whether it's, you know, German or Spanish or Portuguese, you need to be able to portray those same emotions. So it's kind of like, 'cause I used to actually teach dubbing. It's kind of like, you're like a one man band stand. You remember those little, those figures of the monkey where they have -- Anne: Yes, they play the tambourine. They play the drums. Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: All at the same time. Anne: You have to do it all. Pilar: It's kind of like being a drummer because if you look at a drummer, he's got one beat going in one arm, another beat going in the other arm, and he's got two different beats going in his, with his legs. Anne: Yeah. So Pilar, just to back up just a little bit, I want to make sure that, because we are going to talk about both dubbing and ADR, what exactly is dubbing? Let's just clear up the definition. Pilar: Yes. So dubbing is when you have got a telanovela, say, or a movie in Spanish, and they are speaking in Spanish. And they want you to put your voice onto that person's body basically so it sounds -- Anne: In another language. Pilar: In another -- in English, in English. So if it's in Spanish, they want you to dub exactly what they are saying in Spanish into English. Anne: Right. Or vice versa. Pilar: Or vice versa. Anne: Or any other language. Pilar: Or any, 'cause it doesn't matter. I mean, I've dubbed in Chinese, from Chinese to English, German, Swedish. It depends on the project. Anne: Do you dub mostly in English or in Spanish? Or both? Pilar: I actually do both. Yeah. I do both. Yeah. I do more other languages to English because that's what the demand is, but I definitely do a lot of times English to Spanish. Anne: Okay. Pilar: So basically when you walk into the booth, and you are given a movie or an episode that is in whatever language it's going to be, and I will say this, just because I speak Spanish and French, that doesn't necessarily help you when you're dubbing. Sometimes it can actually be a hindrance because you're listening and you're going, wait a minute. They're not saying exactly what they're saying in English, so. Anne: Ah, yeah. There's translation there. Pilar: Yeah. You do not have to know the language that you're dubbing at all for anybody who has that kind of question. Anne: We should clarify too, you said, when you walk into the studio. Now, this is typically done in a studio, right? It's not something that we can do remotely. Pilar: Yeah. I would say when we went through the past two years, and everybody had to go inside, there was obviously, it was only remote. So I did a lot of things remotely, but ideally they want you to be in the same studio because you are recording with the same mic and in the same environment. Anne: Got it. That makes sense. Pilar: And that's when it makes it really, really makes a difference. So a lot of times they would send kits out. Studios would send kits. So everybody would have the same exact setup in their booth. Anne: Got it. And you're talking about the same mic as what was recorded in the movie? Is that what you're talking about? Or -- Pilar: No, no, because this is voiceover. So, you know, whatever, whatever the movie is, you know, they have different mix for that. Although actually -- Anne: That's what I was thinking. Like they wanted to specify what kind of mic was being used. That's what I was. Pilar: Yeah. But that was, you know, more so for, for just voiceover. Anne: Got it. Pilar: So what's ironic is that, you know, the Sennheiser, it was originally a mic used on sets, but generally for dubbing, you know, they have their own extremely high powered mics. I mean, I was in a session the other day, and I was standing very far away from the mic technically 'cause here I'm, you know, I'm standing pretty close to the mic, and that mic picks up everything. I mean that mic picks up a burp. That mic picks up a little breath, and it's, it's just amazing. So yeah, they generally want you to go into the studio, and so you get there, you walk in. And of course now with all the protocols, everything is, you know, sanitized and wiped down. And usually you're asked to bring your own headphones. You go in and you watch a piece of copy, and the dubbing director will explain. And there's also the engineer. Anne: You mean you watch a video? Pilar: Yeah. You watch a piece. Yeah. So you've got the mic in front of you. You've got the video. And so you're seeing it in the original language. So you get to see it -- now, here's the thing. Out here in LA, you actually get a dress rehearsal. The majority, I would say 99% of the time when I lived in Miami, I didn't get a dress rehearsal. It was just like -- Anne: Oh wow, go. That's tough. Pilar: Get out of the stable and go. Yeah. Anne: Because you have to match the lip. Pilar: Right. And you don't know what's coming. So when you're doing a character, but because I was doing so much of it, what I learned to do is after like an episode or two, I would see what that actor's rhythms were. So then I could mimic and kind of go with her breaths and where she did sighs and where she stopped because I was always looking at her lips. But I also -- see, that's the thing. That's why I brought in the analogy of the drummer. So what are you doing when you dub? You are watching the screen. You are acting because you're doing what the other, what that character in front of you is doing. You are voicing, you're reading, and you're adding your own breaths. So you're also usually seeing the -- I mean, at least that, that was the case in Miami, not so much out here, but you're seeing the script for the first time. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: So you're doing all these things. You're employing more than one sense, and you're doing it without a dress rehearsal. Anne: Wow. Pilar: It's kind of intense. Anne: That's a lot. And I remember my class was just like that. I mean, we did not even really know the copy that was coming up when it was coming up. And we had not really, we did not have a dress rehearsal, so it's a lot of things to do at once. And so what are the prerequisites for you as a voice actor that wants to get into dubbing? What sort of things should you do if you want to make this part of your career to get good at it? Pilar: So the most important thing is listening, and observing, and putting yourself into that character's shoes for however long you are in the booth. So I played this character a while back, and it's out on Netflix now. And it's a terror series. It's literally terrifying. I said to my mom, listen, I'm going to give you the times that my character is there because I don't want you to see anything else because it's so terrifying. It's so, so scary. Anne: Oh, I'm gonna assume that you just did this one and that you had a dress rehearsal. So you had an idea of what the whole show was about. Right? And I think that that helps, right? Pilar: Well, rehearsal means you. Yeah. You get to see the scene, but you don't really know what you're getting into because you haven't seen the moments before. You're just looking at when you are speaking as a character. Anne: Got it, got it. Pilar: So it's up to you to -- Anne: Understand the vibe. Pilar: And not just that, but that's what I mean by you really have to be completely on because you are looking and you're listening at the same time. You're evaluating what that character is doing at that moment and why -- Anne: What happened. Pilar: -- are you doing it, right. Anne: And what might've happened beforehand so you can act, right? Pilar: Exactly. Yeah. And then you have to do it and you only get one dress rehearsal. So you have to be very acutely aware. You have to be present in the booth. So what they do is you'll do a scene on, they'll give you a pass of the entire scene and then you'll go back. You'll do another take or you'll do pick-ups. They do give you headphones. But if you have really good headphones, it's great to bring those with you. 'Cause you have to hear every nuance with that character -- where are they breathing? Anne: Now, are they doing sentences at a time? Or just periods of time when this character is talking? Is there back and forth between dialogue from other characters? Pilar: Oh yes, absolutely. Yes. Anne: They will do an entire, let's say three minutes of the characters going back and forth? So you have to also watch the other character and then react. Right? Pilar: Absolutely. Yes, exactly. And so here's the thing. Back in the day, I used to get pieces of paper, and then they switched to the monitor, and now there's this thing, that's, it's a band. And it was, I think it was invented actually in France, if I'm not mistaken. And it's a band that goes at the bottom of your screen, and most of the companies that I've worked for, the studios that I've worked for, they all use this. So it's a band, and it's in your specific color for that episode. So like my character, Anna, Anna's lines are going to be in green. They're going to have the highlight green. But then I'm also listening to the other characters and their lines are there as well. Anne: But not in green, obviously. Pilar: No, they're like in purple or whatever, but I have to be very aware of who's speaking when. Anne: So you have to look at the bottom of the screen, which has the band. Plus you also have to understand where the lips are happening and when they're saying it, so you've got to go, you've got to look from the bottom of the screen to the lips. Pilar: Yes, ma'am. Anne: And so that is fast focusing I'm sure. Pilar: Totally. Anne: And total focus and it's got to be exhausting. I can't imagine like when you're doing a dubbing session, how long are you doing a dubbing session for? An hour, two hours, five hours? Pilar: The standard time is two hours. Anne: Okay. But that has got to be an exhausting two hours sometimes. Pilar: It can be exhausting, but it's really exhilarating because you're in the booth, and I always stand. Anne: I can't imagine sitting when you have to be that focused and on top of things. Pilar: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You have to use the whole body. But I rest, like when they're doing, when they're trying to decide between the dubbing director and the engineer, you know, do we do this? Do we do that? Um, and they're rewinding and they're trying to sync it up and everything. So, so that's when I can just take a little break, drink some water. They tend to be generally two hour sessions. I've done, you know, up to four. You know, it's, it's, it is work. It's a lot of work. Anne: But so now that you have the band that's running on the screen, right, do you have a copy as well of the actual script at all in front of you? Pilar: No, nope. Anne: Because I remember when I took my class, I had both. I had the script that was down in front of me, but I also had to keep my eye on the screen as well and the lips of the actor that I was dubbing. So it was a lot, but when they were doing whatever work they needed to do in the studio, I was kind of looking at the script coming up next so I could get a little familiar with it. Pilar: Yeah. It actually depends on the studio because there was a studio that did the paper. I don't know if they still do because you know, things have evolved in the past couple of years. It kind of depends. But sometimes you do, sometimes you do get a paper, which in a way is actually worse because you have to look farther down. I'd rather have it on the screen. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Pilar: But whatever it is that you're doing, whether you have a piece of paper in your hand, or you're looking at it on a monitor, or you're looking at the stuff on one screen and the script on another screen, 'cause that also happens, whatever it is that you do, you have to learn to read quickly. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so you're basically constantly evaluating and looking at getting the information. So then you can spit it out -- Anne: Yeah, right. Pilar: -- and then move on to the next moment that that character has. Anne: So dubbing is going into the studio and having the band and checking the lip movement of the actor that you're replacing, right, that you're dubbing. Now what's looping then. So that's dubbing. What's looping then? Pilar: Looping, technically it's called ADR, which is additional dialogue replacement. Like, so for example, let's say there is a scene where there are two people in a restaurant, and they're outside in a cafe, in a little restaurant cafe in New York. And you know, there are people going back and forth, and there are people walking on the street, and there are people inside. And then there's the person at the bar. All that noise, all that noise gets put in, in post. None of that is real because basically what they figured out, and sometimes you can get it, but there's so much incidental noise. So you're going to get a honking of a horn or somebody shouting that they can't control all those extra elements. So what they do is that they come back, and once the scene is done and it's ready -- or let's say the actress spoke really low. So she was looking at her food saying, "I don't love you anymore." So it's like, they didn't get that. They didn't get that from the mic, the boom that was hanging, you know, five feet above her. So the actors come back. So basically it's like background extra work but for voices. Anne: Is that not also called Walla Walla? Pilar: So Walla Walla is a type of ADR. Walla Walla is kind of like, you're just kinda like talking and it's like -- Anne: So many terms. Pilar: -- rhubarb, peas, and carrots, rhubarb, peas, and carrots. This is what I used to do on stage. You know, when you, when you weren't speaking, but you had to look like you were talking sure. Then there's something called call-outs where you say -- so each character sits there and says, "hey, I'm going to the store. I'll see you later." And so it's like, you're literally having like a pretend conversation. And so ADR has, you know, so many different -- ADR has its own genres too. Anne: So dubbing is not necessarily related to ADR and looping. Pilar: ADR, I would say it's like a, it's like a third cousin, second or third cousin, because there are aspects of it. So for example, I did a movie last year, which came out, I guess it came out at Christmas? It was called "Eternals". It was a Marvel movie. And of course, you know, when you sign up for something like that, you sign NDAs up to an inch of your life, and you can't say anything. And so the only reason I'm saying it is because I asked them -- Anne: Now you can. Pilar: - I asked them, yeah. Now you can, and now it's out. And so, you know, the person who hired me was like, yeah, it's okay. 'Cause I always check. And that's something that's really important. Whatever it is that you're doing, when it's like dubbing or, or ADR, they're going to make you sign NDAs. So in fact, at one studio, they make you put your cell phone in a little box before you walk in and lock it up because they don't want any kind of -- Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: You know, they bought the rights, it's their property. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so to have some actors sit there and go, oh, I was at this studio and I was dubbing look at me is just, I mean, come on. You know, you've just ruined all their hard work. So -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: -- in the world of dubbing, they're very, very demanding on that. You know, you can't say a word. Anne: Well, that makes a lot of sense. And I'm glad that you brought it up because how many times have we seen a voice actor, either bragging on social media, or here's a picture of me leaving and just thinking that nobody will see that, that is a big, big, big no-no. So yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense that you don't want to give away any, any secrets until they're revealed. I get that. Pilar: Because basically when you are an actor, you are lending your voice. That's what you're doing, or you're lending your acting to the project. The project isn't yours. You don't own the project. Anne: It's a great point. Pilar: You know, I remember one time I did this commercial. Magic, the big basketball player, Magic Johnson. I mean, I'm seeing him right now. And all of a sudden I had a brain fart in his name. So it was a commercial and he was, he's so adorable and he's so nice. And so we were all gathered around, and of course at the end they let us take pictures. And so of course I took my picture and I had it in my phone. And then literally a couple of weeks later, I see this actor post and like, "hey yeah, I got, I was, I was," and I was like, what are you doing? The commercial isn't out, that's not yours. That's their material. Somebody owns that material. And you have to respect that this is a situation. So for something like a Marvel movie, you know, you sign NDAs up the wazoo. Anne: Oh yeah, I've seen people get fired. Pilar: Yeah. And -- Anne: Hard. Fired Hard. Pilar: To be honest, I, I can't blame them because it's like, it's, it's not my material to come -- to go out and play with. So with ADR, and this all changed in the pandemic too, because with ADR, what you would do is that you would go with a group of people, and you would be in the same room with them. So that's where you have these things called donuts, which is you walk around and you do these sort of loops. And you talk as you pass by the microphone. And then the call-outs where you're "hey, let's go get some ice cream" kind of a thing. And "Dr. George Michael to line one in, you know, room 222," that kind of a thing. So that all went away. And so now when you go to a studio, we were all separated. So we were in the same studio, but we were all in different booths. So that's the difference. So it's all, you're not together. Anne: Right, during the pandemic. Pilar: Right during, yeah, exactly. Pilar: So they had to kind of change that the way that, that happens. Anne: Also, so not just that, there's also, if you need to replace a line, right. If they couldn't get the actor, if they couldn't get the line or they changed the line, and they could get the actor back in, sometimes there's just a line replacement. Pilar: Yeah. Right. Exactly. And that will happen, let's say, with a specific actor, but when you're talking about ADR, like when you're in that scenario that I said about the coffee shop, there are people talking. So you need to have, let's say, if you're doing a cop show, you need to have the lingo all ready to go, you know, and they encourage you to bring -- paper makes noise, but like iPads. And then you have your "Adam 24," you know, that kind of a thing or "nurse code blue," you know? So all the different genres have different language. So you have that ready. And then when you're called on, because you're just basically, it's like, okay, who wants to do this? And you just get up and you do it, and you do it in front of your mic. I don't know if it's gone back to the grouping. 'Cause I, I did something recently, and we were still in separate booths. So I don't know if that's actually gone to the group thing again, but ADR basically takes care of all that sort of subtle murmuring that goes on. And so whatever it is that you do -- and there's, there are a lot of rules. Like, you know, you never want to say, have anything to do with God. There's a lot of, since it is all improv, because you know, it is, you know, as we had mentioned before about, you want to be positive, that's another thing. That's another big thing; you want to be positive. You don't want to be negative. So there are, there are a couple of different rules you don't necessarily want to talk about the time of day. You don't want to say people's names or the actor or the characters' names in the movie itself. Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: So you're constantly improvising. And so flexibility is key in ADR. So you can just get up and, you know, in front of the mic and talk about this car that overturned in a tractor trailer and this and that. And you just, and you know, you have a little cheat sheet, so you have little sentences or, or themes that you can expound upon. Anne: So they give that to you. And you're just improv-ing off of that. Pilar: They give you the, the scene, but it's up to you to come up with the lines. It's like, they don't, they don't give you the lines. So I took a class, my very first ADR class when I got to LA was with Johnny Gidcomb. So, you know, for anybody out there who wants to do ADR, he's fantastic. And he teaches you the ropes. So we did as if we were blooping this one show that he had done, one of the many "Planet of the Apes" movies. And so, you know, we had to sit there and see, and it was sometimes it was difficult because you didn't know who was speaking. So you had to be, you know, eagle eye on these characters saying who was speaking when and, who was loud and who wasn't. So it's like a lot of, you know, observation comes in to play when you're doing ADR as well. Anne: And then if that's not enough, so there's the dubbing, there's the ADR and looping and Walla Walla. And then we also have audio description. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Audio description is something that's similar, but yet different. And that's also kind of, I feel like because there's more content out there, there's been a lot of work in this area as well with audio description. And there's just some really great instructors out there. I had Roy Samuelson is part of one of my meetups who came and talked about audio description. And there's some great groups out there that you can get involved in and learn from and lots of work out there. So let's talk about audio description now. Pilar: Yes. Let's talk about it because I will be honest with you. I am not that familiar with it. I know that it, audio description can be used for people who have trouble seeing, that that's a lot of it, but it does have many uses, correct? Anne: Yes, exactly. So audio description will be describing the scene. It kind of happens along with the dialogue, and that is something that will be describing the scene as it's happening. And so that is copy that is provided to you, but you know, it is a skill, and it is something that I think you have to be quick on your feet in order to do it well. And I think you also have to add in acting because you are really, for people who are not necessarily seeing the video in front of them, you are audibly describing what's happening in the scene, and you can't just be a robot doing that. I feel like you've got to bring the experience to the listener. And so there is definitely quality of acting for audio description as well. For sure, for sure. Pilar: Yes. And I'm looking at this. Yeah. And it is definitely for people who have low vision or who are visually impaired. So you definitely have to have acting chops because you are, you are the narrator for these people who can't see. So you are providing everything, you're being their eyes. Anne: It's like audio drama in a way. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: But you don't want to be overly, right, dramatic because -- Pilar: Yeah. Not emoting, right, either. Anne: Right. Exactly. Because obviously you're not overtaking the acting that's going on that they're listening to. You are simply describing the scenes and what's happening. So while you need to act, you may not need to act as if you are a direct character in the scene. That's for sure. Pilar: Well, and also because in -- when there are gaps in the dialogue, you will be describing visual elements. So you're going to be describing costumes, the action, the setting, the mountain in the background. And so you have to make that interesting, but you're not going to make it monotone picture. And you're also not going to go crazy talking about the mountain. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: You know, so exactly it has to sacrifice to be some kind of middle ground. So you're making it because you are the eyes for that person. So you have to be able to transmit the emotions that are going on. Anne: Yeah. So I'll tell you, all of these things that we have been talking about today really require someone who has acting experience, right, or who is an actor. And I love that because that just really broadens the scope of what we can do as voiceover artists. And it really pinpoints the importance in everything that we do, that acting is a part of it. And so there's a lot of areas in which as a performer, if you want to improve and up your game, you can have these opportunities if you just keep developing those acting skills and improv skills. And I just love that we're talking about where all these skills, we just had our episode on improv, you know, how they can help you to really grow your business as a voiceover artist. So thanks so much, Pilar, for chatting with me about this. I love you've just brought so much to the table for our listeners. So thank you for that. Pilar: No, thank you. This was so much fun. Anne: Awesome. Well, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and perform like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and Pilar and I will see you next week. Pilar: Ciao. Anne: All right, bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Acting is more than just using your voice. It requires whole body movement, agility, and engagement. In this episode, Anne & Pilar share their favorite stretches, exercises, and warmups that can be done in and out of the booth. From Pilar's jaw release warmup to Anne's neck stretch, by the end of this episode you'll be warmed up + ready to perform like a #VOBOSS. More at https://voboss.com/move-in-the-booth Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And I am so excited to bring back to my booth, my special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you? Pilar: Hello, Anne. Anne: Look, I feel I'm very spry. I'm very spry today in the booth. And you know why? Do you know I'm spry? Pilar: Why are you spry? Why are you spry? Why are you spry, Anne? Anne: Because I did a little warmup, so I'm kind of feeling good in the booth. And I think it's important that we always do awesome warmups and move around in the booth so we can have good energy going forth into our voiceover. Pilar: I totally agree. Anne: Thoughts? Pilar: That that is something that I, something that I just did. Do as I say, not as I do. Try not to do what I just did, honestly. VO BOSSes -- Anne: Drink dairy? Pilar: Because, well, that's one thing. Yes, of course. I had dairy. I had yogurt this morning, so of course I'm all phlegmy. Anne: Me too. Pilar: That's not, that's not fun, especially when you're going to do an audition. That's not great. So drink your water. But one of the things that I was told by a professional is it's really bad to clear your throat. You know, like when people [clear throat noise], that is like the worst thing you can do. Drink water, wait till it passes, stop doing that. But that's literally like putting sandpaper on your throat. It's the worst thing you can do. Anne: Yes, I have heard the same, and it's very hard because I think it's like a habit from before voiceover. That would be BF -- BFO, before voiceover, before voiceover, when I used to scream and do all sorts of harmful things to my vocal cords, before I realized that we need to treat this like gold, because it is our livelihood. Pilar: Okay. I have one question though. Did you say BFO? Anne: Did I say BF -- Pilar: You meant BVO, BVO. Anne: BVO, okay, okay. I was thinking like best friend in VO. So I kind of combined -- Pilar: Anne, Anne -- Anne: Pilar, that's how I think of you. Pilar: Anne, will you be my BFO? Anne: My BFO. there's -- Pilar: Will you be my BFO? Anne: -- best friend, best friend in VO. So hey -- Pilar: I love it. Anne: So being best friends, I think I want all of our BOSS listenership -- they're our friends. And I think it would be a really great episode if we talked about how moving in the booth and how warming up and just physicality in the booth can really help us to perform better and just be better all around, better mental, spiritual, physical to improve our performances. Pilar: Okay. So since we are starting our day, Anne, I invite you to do something with me. Anne: Okay. All right. Pilar: We're going to do it all together. Anne: What is this, a warmup? Pilar: This is a warmup exercise. It's a jaw release. Anne: Oh yes. Pilar: Which we don't even realize half the time how much tension we're carrying in our jaw. Anne: You know what's so funny, that I actually really need this because the other day, I woke up, and my ear was hurting, but it wasn't like an earache kind of hurt. It was an ear hurting because I might've clenched my jaw at night. And I, I know so many people that clench their jaws at night, and anything to relieve this ache in my jaw will be very helpful. Yes. Pilar: Okay. Cool. Anne: I'm ready. Pilar: All right. So I want you to place your palms on the sides of your face. Okay? I'll hold it on my headphones. You can still hear me, right? Okay. So you're going to place your palms on the side of your face and slowly massage the jaw and the cheek muscles. Okay. So you're taking the palm, and you're massaging the jaw line up and down the jaw line and also your cheekbones and, and with small circular motions. Anne: Good for when you have sinus issues too. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Or you feel it. Can you hear me going, can you hear it? Like, I'm very close to the mic. I am in circular motions. Pilar: So you can, you can go all the way up to where your cheekbone is and massage there, and you can go all the way towards the ear. Anne: Okay, BOSSes, you're doing this, I hope you're doing this with us, BOSSes. Pilar: Absolutely. Just try it. And then you go all the way down to your jaw line and go way up almost to your, your ear, almost to the ear. So continue to massage while lowering and raising your jaw. Now -- Anne: You're lowering and raising the jaw while you're doing this. Pilar: Yeah, so you're going, ahhh, in the jaw. Anne: Are we saying anything when we're doing? Pilar: No, not yet. Not yet. Just lower and raise your jaw. I can't speak right now. Anne: But you're my -- you're instructing us, so. Pilar: I am instructing you. Okay. Now -- Anne: I don't know if you can do it while you're instructing. Pilar: I will. You're going to hear it in a minute. So now keep lowering and raising your jaw while you're massaging. And now you're going to add the sound ma ma ma with a very light lip contact. So it's not, mmm. It's just a light lip contact for the mic. Anne: Now what is ] that doing? Pilar: And then you're going to change to whoa, whoa, Anne: Wait. I'm still massaging, right? Pilar: Yeah. You're still massaging, and you're changing from ma ma to wa wa. Anne: Oh, I can feel the vibration. Pilar: VO BOSSes, if you're doing this, you're hearing the resonance. That's really important because that means that you're using all those muscles. Anne: That's awesome. Pilar: We tend to think that we're just using the vocal box and that's it. And sometimes we can hear the chest. Anne: No, it's our entire it's like facial jaw. Pilar: Exactly. It's that whole, and it goes up practically -- it's like, like you're using all those muscles and all that movement there, and that will help your sound as it comes out. Anne: Love it. Pilar: So do you wanna try another one? Anne: Yeah, let's try another one. Let's try another one. Pilar: It's a lip trill. Okay. So this releases lip tension, which we tend to do and we don't even realize it. And it also helps you to connect your breathing and speaking. So place your lips loosely together. Okay? And you're going to release air in a steady stream to create a trill or a raspberry kind of a sound. So it's like [whistle-like breathing] Anne: That's a raspberry sound? Pilar: I'm not really sure what a raspberry sound is. Anne: [lip trill] Isn't that what it is, the trill? Pilar: But that's what I say -- yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can also do this. [whistle breathing] What is a raspberry sound? That is a raspberry sound, but it's like, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get the sound out without moving my lips, which is really cool. Hold on. [lip buzzing] That's a raspberry sound. That's a raspberry. [lip buzzing] So first try. So our microphone is getting a lot of action here. First, try it with an H sound. Then try it with a B sound. Anne: Oh my God, that tickles. Pilar: Yeah, it does, it tickles, right? Anne: I can not, I can not do it. It's like when the dentist does the teeth cleaning, the polishing, and it gets on my lip, it just, I can't. It makes me tear up. Pilar: So first try it with an H sound and then repeat with a B sound. Okay? And then [sound]. And it seems like it wouldn't be, but it is different. It's a different feeling. So now I want you to try doing the B trill. It can be either [lip trill] or it can be [lip buzz] and go up and down the scales. Okay? And whatever's comfortable. You don't have to go all the way -- whatever's comfortable at the top or the bottom. Anne: I really think for the trill, you have to let your lips just trill like that. Pilar: Because there's two ways to do it. There's [one way] which is more the H sound. And then there's the [lip trill]. Anne: That's easy. Okay. My lips are relaxed now. Pilar: Yeah. Don't they feel kind of like, they feel like you can kind of feel the reverberations. Anne: Well, once the tickle goes away, I'll, yeah. I'm not sure I can do this everyday 'cause it just tickles. I wonder if I'll get used to it. Pilar: Yeah. And there's more, there, there are other things, there's tongue trills. There's lip buzzing. We kind of did the lip buzzing, and here's one thing that's really important: humming. You can do this anywhere. You can do this while you're walking. Humming is really great. So [hums]. Anne: Oh yes. Pilar: So if you do humming and you concentrate, you will feel it in different parts of your face. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pilar: You will, you'll be able to feel it in your teeth, in your lips, and in your facial bones. So let's just try that really quickly. Just the humming. Anne: BOSSes are humming. Pilar: And if you go low, It's a different feeling from when you go high. And in your nose, if you concentrate on feeling it in your nose, you're going to feel all this vibration. Anne: Yep. I feel it my nose. And I think if you visualize where it's coming from, that helps, that helps. Now this is doing some vocal lip, trills, and hums. Now I also think any exercise around your head, neck, muscles, shoulders is very helpful in the booth. So I feel like I do a lot of the neck stretches where you take your right hand, place it on your left ear and tilt your head to the side. Right? So right hand -- Pilar: Hold on, right hand, left ear. Anne: Right-hand, left ear. Pilar: Is your hand over your head or is it under? Anne: It's over my head, over my head. And so as you breathe in through your nose for three seconds, then exhale, pull your head more to the right. Breathe in for three seconds. Hold it. And as you exhale, stretch your neck further towards your right shoulder. Breathe in for three and then exhale and stretch even further to your shoulder. And then you basically take your head and do on the other side. So take your left hand, put your left hand over your right ear. Pilar: I was doing it, I was doing it the wrong way at first. I'm like, she's crazy. And then I realized I was doing it wrong. Anne: Yeah. Breathe in through your nose. And then when you exhale, bring that head down towards your shoulder, toward the left shoulder. Exactly. Then breathe in again. And then as you exhale, bring it further towards your left shoulder. So you're stretching that neck. Pilar: Oh, that feels good. Oh yeah, you can feel it. Anne: Yeah. And then you can do that also forward. So take your hand, your right hand, put it on the top of your head, and breathe in for three through your nose and then exhale and then pull your head down to your chest. So chin to your chest. Pilar: Oh my God. I can feel it all up and down the back of my neck. Anne: So yeah, those muscles around your neck, when you warm them up, right, your vocal cords are right there. So it's super that that's warmed up as well. And in addition to the physical, like, and I also do head rolls, right? So from left to right, roll your head around the back 'til it reaches your right shoulder and then back again towards your left, and that will help you to relax those muscles around your vocal cords. Pilar: Okay. Very important. Yeah. And one other that I will suggest is interlocking your hands in front of you and then twisting them and pushing your palms out. Anne: Oh, forward, yeah. Pilar: Forward. So you're stretching those, those shoulders. Anne: Shoulder muscles. Yeah. Pilar: And then you can bring them up and, and then, and you can actually pull your left -- Anne: Over your head, right? Pilar: Over your head and then pull your left wrist with your right hand and then go to the right. Oh. And you can feel all up and down the arm. Anne: And so you're stretching to the left. So you're doing that -- Pilar: Your side. Anne: Yeah. You're doing a side stretch. Pilar: You're doing a side stretch. Right. And you're doing, yeah. And then you go to the other side. You can feel all the way up and down the side of your body. Because when you're in the booth, you're using everything. I know that a lot of people sit in terms of moving in the booth. That's an important part of this. People ask me all the time, do you sit or do you stand? And it's like, I do both. It depends on the read. However, whatever it is that you do, make sure you don't -- if you're standing for a very long time, make sure you have a chair that you can sit. And if you're sitting for a long time, make sure you get up, move around, touch your toes, raise your arms up, you know, lift your knees a little bit, because sitting or standing in the same position for a very long time will lead you to feeling tension and -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: And so, you know, it's like, you want to be flexible. You want to be easy. Anne: So we've warmed up, and we're moving in the booth as we sit. And literally this takes a few minutes. You don't even have to spend an hour doing this, but every little bit helps. And I think that not only just warming up in the booth by moving around, 'cause now I'm like, wow, I've got some heat going on in this booth. Maybe you do it outside the booth if you don't have any ventilation, but wherever you do the, the exercises and the movement, the lip trills, and the head rolls, and the neck rolls, and all of the side stretches, that's wonderful before you get into do your auditioning for the day. And once you're there too, you can physicate while you're performing your script. And that actually is something that I tell my students every single day, get physical behind the mic. Because number one, it helps you be much more believable because it's taking away all of that energy that you focus specifically just on the words coming out of your mouth. And a lot of times that doesn't make things realistic because if all you're moving is your mouth and your vocal cords, things become very consistent, right? There's no other energy coming out of you to kind of move or shape a rhythm. That would be something that we do when we're talking to one another, right? When we talk to one another or we converse or we're interacting with other people, which is kind of what you're doing with your audience behind the mic, right, you're interacting with people, you're moving your arms. You're moving your body. You have facial expressions. There's all of this movement happening behind the mic or behind your voice. And that helps us to sound the way that we do. I mean, it, it has every bit of influence on how we sound. So if I'm just standing or sitting or standing here and I'm just here, I'm just moving my mouth and that's what I'm doing, you can notice that I sound a little bit more staccato. I don't really have a lot of, I don't know, depth or feeling. Right? So now I'm just going to like, I'm going to move stuff around. I'm going to move my hands because I really love to move around because that's what I do when I talk to people, like that's that Ganguzza, you know, moving the hands around and, and all of the expression. And if I want to really convince you of something, you can tell, you can hear it. Right? You can hear it come out in my voice. What do you do, Pilar? Pilar: I'm all about, of course, I want to use my imagination all the time. But for example, even something as simple as a raising an eyebrow, like, I'll, I'll be like, oh yeah, right. Instead of saying, oh yeah, right. But if I raise my eyebrow, I've already changed the expression. Oh yeah. Right. And it can be an ironic raising of an eyebrow. Anne: I'm confused. There's my furrowed eyebrow. Confused eyebrow. I have a confused eyebrow. Pilar: Or it could be like, I'm confused. That's like an ironic raising of an eyebrow. I'm confused. Anne: No, you're not. That's a sarcastic eyebrow. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: That would be a sarcastic eyebrow. Pilar: Right, right. It's a sarcastic eyebrow. Anne: Eyebrows, they really help. Pilar: They really do. They really do. Anne: They really help to give you that point of view, to give you that little bit of nuanced emotion about that read, and I'll tell you over and over again, that's what we keep hearing. Right? It is that kind of emotion, that point of view that, the you that you bring to the script that helps you to bring yourself to the script. Otherwise we're just spewing words into the microphone. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: We don't want to spew words. Let's not spew. Pilar: Like an inward chuckle, like -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You know, just the shrugging of the shoulders that we, that you know, that you mentioned in your minute. And like, for example, when you, when you say your name, you can say your name, Pilar Uribe, or you can say Pilar Uribe. So I just shrugged my shoulders Pilar Uribe. Anne: Pilar! Or Pilar Uribe. Pi-lar. Pilar: Yeah. And so we have this whole stretch of body, which is our shoulders that we can do so much. We can shrug one shoulder. We can shrug to shoulders. We can shrug kind of just like a little kind of a yeah, right. We're just kind of like a little inward chuckle. I just raised my shoulder. So you've got all these parts of your body that you can use that can help you when you're doing a read. Like right now I'm using my hands. You know, what you were saying before, I can be pointing to somebody. I can be gesticulating. I can be raising my arms. You know, another one we were talking about earlier is just when you do a read and you put your hands behind your back. There's kind of like -- Anne: Yeah. Yeah, here I am. Pilar: Hands behind your back. Anne: Or hands behind your head, right? So you're just, you're casual. If you happen to be standing or sitting, and you want to relax a little bit -- because sometimes when people are trying hard to sound a particular way, their focus is all upfront and it's all here, like in their mouth and in their, like, I feel like it's all around their face. And when you are moving your hands, moving other parts of your body, it just dissipates that energy and really reshapes the tone of what you sound like. Because we're very physical people when we talk, I think, just to each other, when we engage with one another, we're using those hands. And so why should that stop once we're in the booth, right? Because we want it. We're still engaging with our audience. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And it's something as simple as putting your arms on your shoulders if you're playing a character, that's in a protective stance or is scared and it's like, this is the way I am now. Or if you've got your hands on the side of your waist, and you're just speaking like this, and you're sticking your chest out, that's a completely different read because you've put something in front of it instead of just speaking here and being really intense. It's almost like you have to trick your mind and you have to give your body an assignment. And then that way, when you give your body an assignment, the tension kind of dissipates as we were talking about. And then you can give a more interesting read and then that's what stops the monotony. You know, even just when you're like, when you're doing long-form, just changing your body stance because it's very hard sometimes to keep the momentum and not be boring. Anne: Well, exactly. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Because a lot of times I work with a lot of students on, on long format narration like e-learning or corporate narration, something that, anything that's longer than even like 30 seconds, right? We have such small attention spans these days. And so you need to really be conscious and focused on keeping that audience engaged for longer than a minute, in between the periods, in between the sentences, right? There's still things happening. And if you kind of forget about that scene and engaging with the person who's listening, then it becomes a monologue. It just becomes you speaking out into the air. A lot of times I'll refer to you're reading the PowerPoint, and that does not engage with us because you're no longer speaking to me, the listener behind the mic, you're speaking off into the air, and it's only serving yourself. And that, that comes out in the read, that comes out in the emotion that -- well, are you really talking to me? Are you concerned about how I feel? Not really, because you're reading that PowerPoint. And when you introduce physicality behind the mic, what happens, it will take the focus off of the monologue and bring it back hopefully to where you're engaging or you're not giving a consistent metronome-like read where we all become bored. It becomes more engaged on you. So I would think the only thing that you don't do when you are physicating behind the mic is take your eyes off the page because that's the one thing that's different, right? Unless you're an actor and you're on stage and you've memorized your lines or on camera, then you can obviously not use the piece of paper, but with us, we're not memorizing.   So if we play the paper -- I was told that a long time ago, play the paper. So the person you're talking to is the person right behind the words on the paper. So if that paper became a transparency for us people who are of a certain age and know what a transparency is, you can see a face or think of it as like a teleprompter with you. You can see faces behind it. You're talking to the people behind it, but you are never taking your eyes off that word or the words, because a lot of times, if you do, and I know with my actor students, I know exactly when they're taking their eyes off the paper, because they're missing words. They're stumbling and that's, that's a telltale sign, but play the paper and physicate like crazy. And nobody's, I mean, we can all be silly, right? I mean, nobody's watching you. I mean, maybe they are. Pilar: Obviously, as long as you don't make noise, there are things that you can do. Like, for example, this is just something that I've done. And then I was thinking, how could it translate to a man? So sometimes what I'll do is I've got my hair up in a ponytail, and I'll just kind of whip my hair out. And just the movement of my head, you know, like a slow motion, like, you know, those hair commercials when they move their hair slowly, that'll give me a different reason. Anne: I've got a visual now. The brat girl, she's like the brat girl. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. So that'll give me a different read. And so for men, you know, if you have short hair, it's harder, but like just even putting a hat on and taking the hat off, just like the slow motion of it. Because a lot of the times when we're doing reads, you know, we want to get it done -- Anne: Yes, quickly. Pilar: -- or not that we want to get it done quickly, but we want to get it over with, and it's in that moment, it's in that present moment that it's so important to be feeling, yes, you're reading, but you can also be doing other things with your arms, and your shoulders, and your head, and just give it that full body because that will -- even though we think it doesn't, it's going to come out in the read. Anne: I like the full body. Yeah. And I'm glad that you said that because I tell people when they're making movements behind the mic, right, in order to make a point, sometimes it takes more of an effort. Like, 'cause I could just sit here, like here I am behind the mic, and I want to demonstrate a large circle. Right? So I use my hands and I draw a circle with my hand, right? So I say here's a large circle, but I didn't really draw a large circle. I just drew a circle in front of me. What I want to do is I want to draw a large circle. And so if you can hear what just happened is I actually drew a larger circle, and it just kind of drew my voice into a different sound and a different tone. And you may not want to go that large, but a lot of times you have to go a little bit larger than the immediate inch or two in front of your face. Pilar: If you're doing video games, you definitely have to go larger. Anne: Even narration. As a matter of fact, narration, because God, you've got to make sure that those nuances come out. They may not be grand emotions, but they're going to be -- I really want you to listen to this next line. It's really important. And let me talk about the circumference of this large circle over here. And so, as opposed to let me talk about the circumference of this large circle over here, right? There's a big difference when I don't move versus when I do move. And so you need to make that corresponding physical movement that gives it enough point of view, enough emphasis enough passion, whatever that is. I just -- see, I got so passionate. I plosived on my mic. I heard that. And so, or I might've hit the mic with my hand, but you've got to give that performance behind the mic that allows you to express something that people are listening to because remember you're reeling them back into the story because they don't have to listen to you. If you're in front of someone and you're actually engaging with them, right, they're physically in front of you. And so you've got your body that you can use to help like control the conversation. Maybe not control, but use your body and your face and your hands and your voice to keep people engaged. But behind the mic, it's an imaginary audience that we're playing to, so. Pilar: Well, and I think it's really important because along the lines of what you just said, what are we doing as voice actors? Whether we're doing long-form or we're doing an audition, our goal is not to get the words out or not to say the words in the pretty way. Just like in a conversation, you are engaging the person who's in front of you. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: That's the whole point of it. You're doing it for the other person. You're not doing it for yourself. Anne: Right. Pilar: So in that sense, you have to be as if that person were right there in the booth with you. So you have to engage, and whatever it is, you can be physical about it. And the great thing about being in the booth is that nobody has to see you making these silly faces. You know, so if you're doing your exercises, you know, and it's like -- Anne: It's so true. Pilar: -- you're going by them as -- this is a great exercise -- my name is -- and so you open your mouth wide and you go "my name is Tommy, the wide-mouthed frog." And that -- Anne: Tommy, okay, Tommy. Pilar: "My name is -- hi! I'm Tommy!" And you just opened your mouth so much. And then when you go to do the normal stuff -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- also those kinds of silly exercises, you know, the big black bug -- Anne: Break the tension. Pilar: Yep. Yeah. And then they bring you to another space if you're stuck and you're going, my gosh, this sounds the same. What am I going to do? You know, it's like, you turn yourself around, and then boom, you're in a different space and you can continue. Anne: Yep. So you didn't think that voiceover was so physical, did you, BOSSes? Because it is, it really is. Whether we're warming up our vocal cords, whether we're warming up our muscles around the vocal cords, or whether we're performing in the booth and expressing physicality behind the mic, it is extra, extra, super, uber important. Pilar: Agreed. Anne: Then it really can help your performance. Pilar: It's a lifelong thing. Anne: That's right, that's right. Pilar: Really and truly, if you're a voice actor and you're just starting out or you've been doing it for 20 years or you've been doing it for five, you can always pick up new tips and incorporate them. And that's going to make your voiceover time in the booth that much richer. Anne: Yeah. Great stuff today, Pilar. You guys, you BOSSes, get moving in the booth. Big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL, where we can connect and move in the booth with our colleagues and clients. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and keep on moving. We'll see you next week. Pilar: See you next week. Anne: Bye! Pilar: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

This week is another exciting trip down The Purpose Highway as the one and only Climate Optimist, Anne Therese Gennari, joins Scott Mason in the front seat. Anne is the co-founder and Head of Marketing of Rolemodels, an agency that puts ethics, sustainability, environmental, and social justice at the core of its business. She also founded The Climate Optimist and is the host of her very own show, Hey Change.Scott and Anne Therese will be dealing with topics about climate change, hope, and what journey it takes to be truly optimistic. HIGHLIGHTSAnne Therese Gennari as FreyaArising as The Climate OptimistHope and Optimism, interlinkedOptimism starts with youQUOTESAnne: “I don't cry gold, but I will say that I have learned to understand that tears are gold in so many ways, and and allowing ourselves to cry can be one of the most empowering empowering things that we do”Anne: “We are the system, and the fastest way to change the system is by empowering ourselves and becoming that change.”Anne: “It's not about being the awesome person who saved the polar bears. It's actually taking it back home like, do you want to be breathing polluted air?”Anne: “If we don't have hope, what do we have? And I think the same applies to optimism, where you can't just choose optimism.”Anne: “We need to stop acting from fear and start embracing curiosity, excitement, joy and optimism. We are here to do something fantastic.”Anne: “Awareness hurts, and that's okay.”To find out more about Anne Therese, please see the links below.LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/anne-therese-gennariWebsites: theclimateoptimist.comTwitter: annetherese_gTo hear more of Scott Mason and the Purpose HighwayⓇ podcast, join our community at https://purposehighway.com/ and subscribe to get notified when new episodes go live.

A peaceful life is one where your work and personal lives are balanced yet separate…but how does that translate to finances? Anne & Pilar have done it all: from TurboTax and nerve-wrecking audits to having an accountant on retainer. There is no one-size fits all plan for business finances, but keeping things organized + separated is a good start. Be ready to evolve your strategy as your business does and tackle tax season like a #VOBOSS! More at https://voboss.com/tax-season Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the podcast very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar: Hi, Anne. Anne: Pilar, Pilar, I, ugh, it's that time again. Pilar: It's tax time. Anne: Pilar, I think this might be the time of year where every voiceover artist entrepreneur says, oh, 'cause we got to start the process or at least forms are coming in. We're gathering receipts. We're doing all of that good stuff to prepare for the tax season. Pilar: It's a communal flip-out. Anne: Yes, it is. Pilar: It's a hootenanny of flipping out. Anne: It is. And it's always like, oh God, I don't want to, oh. Or I want to just get a nice refund. And it's been kind of crazy with the extension last year with the pandemic and things got all out of whack, but I'll tell you, I've got a few things that I've learned along the way that may help BOSSes out there. And I'm sure you do, Pilar, may help you guys when it comes time to getting ready for tax season. Pilar: You know, I think the most important thing, Anne, is to start looking at what you've spent, how you've spent it, how you've earned it. And you know, there are people who are listening to this podcast who are going to say, oh yeah, I've got it all together. And then there are people who are just beginning their career. And so for those VO BOSSes, whatever stage you're in, it's really important to, to start it. And it doesn't matter if you don't have it all together because every single person started out not knowing what they were doing. Anne: But, but I will tell you what helped me immensely right away for my business, whether I was part-time or full-time. 'Cause I started and I did a couple of years part-time before I went full time, was getting a separate bank account, a business bank account, so that I could separate the monies that I was using for my business in and out. So that was the single most important thing I think I started, I mean, outside of researching, do I create an LLC? Do I create -- I actually started as a DBA. Do I create an LLC? Do I have an S Corp? And I think for everyone that is just starting, that's something that you want to research. You may not need to start an LLC right away, whatever it takes. I guess it depends on -- it does depend on the state. I only required a DBA when I first started. So that's what I did. And I followed the rules and did what I needed to do. Got my DBA, and made sure I had a separate bank account so that I could account for all the money coming in and flowing out as well. Pilar: Yeah. I completely agree with that statement. So here's something that I did. So all you VO BOSSes listening out there can do the opposite. I did actually, because my bank gave me that option. I had my regular checking account and my business checking account. Anne: And you didn't have to have a DBA or a -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- something that proved your business? Pilar: No. This was when I first got to Miami after Colombia, and it was, um, Wachovia, which is now Wells Fargo, but they, they just offered that and I was like, sure, I'll take it. So it was two, two different savings accounts, two different checking accounts. But here's what I didn't do. So I really wanted to get my frequent flyer miles. So I thought I'm just going to use my regular credit card for everything. Big mistake, big mistake. So I, and I didn't do it until relatively recently that I got a separate credit card for my business. So nothing that I put on my business has anything to do with my private life and what I do when I'm buying groceries or whatever has nothing to do with what I put on the expense credit card. And that is so important because what ends up happening is if you say, oh yeah, I can just put everything on one credit card and then I'll divvy it up at the end of the year, like right now, then you're just basically pouring over and over through all your statements and it becomes a nightmare. Anne: Well, that's just as bad as not having a business bank account. Pilar: Yes. I agree. Anne: And it could be worse because you tend to spend more on that credit card. Yeah. A business credit card is, I absolutely agree, one of the best things that I ever got, and you know what, I limited it to one. I actually went with American Express, and most, most places take American Express. So if I'm going to buy equipment or I'm going to make an investment, buy office supplies, whatever it is, office supplies, nice mics by the way. Those are the office supplies, Hey, a new studio, nice. Everything went on that business credit card. And it was so easy to categorize, because a lot of times they do that for you. And the other single most important thing I did, and I say this constantly, so if you guys have listened to at least one VO BOSS episode, you probably know that the accountant was the best thing I ever did. I have her on retainer. So every month she balances my accounts. She's very familiar with my company's spending and ins and outs. And we meet every other, once every three weeks or so to go over things. And she keeps my books up to date and that makes tax season super simple. Pilar: Right. Instead of a huge headache where your, like, heart is palpitating every day -- Anne: But I have had that happen. Pilar: -- which is what used to happen to me. Anne: I have had -- Pilar: Oh, I had that for years. Yeah. Anne: And it was one of those things back -- remember when there was paper with paper receipts. I mean, I'm kind of happy now that things are electronic and at least digital, because it's easy to go recover those receipts because remember when you would put those receipts in the box, and they would be those thermal paper receipts. And so at the end of the day, they would all like wear off and you're like, what did I even buy? What is that number? What does that say? So. Pilar: What a nightmare. What a nightmare. Yeah. Or you write something in pencil, remember the days of pencil, and then you can't read your writing for crying out loud. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, so I would say first tax tip is figure out what your business is. And I always say if after you make a certain amount of money, yes, you need to like incorporate. You need to look at options for your business. But I was a DBA for quite a number of years, actually, Pilar. And it served me fine. I didn't have to pay a ton of money, and up to a certain amount, if you're not making over a certain amount of money, it worked really well for me. I did have to start prepaying taxes. But again, that helps when you have an accountant on your side, that's helping you do your books every month. And once I started making more money, I had to start making prepayments. And so I kind of evolved over the years. And then most recently I think you and I were discussing, and we can talk in a minute about that, I'm now an S-corp. So I pay myself and that becomes a little more complex. Pilar: Yes. Agreed. Now, just for those of you who may not know what a DBA is -- Anne: Oh yes. Pilar: -- what it means is "doing business as," so it is actually your registered, you register your name, your business name with whatever state you are living in, and you become like your own organization. So it, it actually, it really depends on the state that you're in because every state works differently. And so you create this entity, so you can have a way of collecting checks and payments. And then when people come to your business, you can give them that name, whatever it is. And that is your business name. You're not just Anne Ganguzza. You are Anne Ganguzza, a company. Anne: Yep. Anne Ganguzza is a company name, like Voice Productions. And so a lot of times that does a lot for indicating to your clients that you are truly a professional, and you're not just a hobbyist here. Pilar: Yeah. It's the official, it's official, it's an official registration of your business name. And that's really important when you're doing business and you're not just saying, oh yeah, well, yeah, it's like $.25 a word. And here -- you have to be able to present yourself as a business because we are a business first and foremost. Anne: And at the end of the year, right, or when you have to provide w nine forms for people, you can use an EIN number instead of your Social Security number, which is a big advantage. So that EIN number is your federally assigned employer identification, if I remember correctly. Pilar: Employer Identification Number, yes. Anne: Employer Identification Number. So you don't have to share your Social Security with every Joe that you work for. Pilar: Tom, Dick, and Harry. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Pilar: Yeah. And that's also, that makes a big, huge difference further on down the line. Because I became an S Corp as well recently, just very recently, and this has taken me years and years to understand. Anne: Did you get help from a lawyer or an accountant or? Pilar: I got help from an accountant. My accountant is my go-to person. I have a relative, who's also a tax lawyer. So that helps. But really, and truly it's, it's so important. And what you say, what you were saying gives me a great idea too, is to really have a close relationship with your accountant. I don't have her on retainer, but that's a really good idea. I call her for anytime I have to sign a paper that my agents send me. I always call and I check with her first. So we know what it is that I'm getting into because there are lots of things I don't understand. I mean, before, when I said, yes, you are first and foremost a business, we are voice actors, but that is our business. So we have to be able to do both. We have to study the craft, which is what we were talking about, you know, over the past couple of weeks. But we also have to know how to conduct ourselves in a business-like manner. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And that means knowing what you spend, how you spend it, having a competent CPA who will be able to help you and go over things with you. So for example, one of the things that I didn't know was that there are a lot of expenses that we have that we can deduct. Anne: Yes. Pilar: But you have to know which are the ones that you can deduct. You can't just deduct everything willy-nilly. That's what you check with your accountant for. And so my accountant every year gives me an organizer, and it's really helpful because it just, there are categories of expenses that I can look at that I may not even have realized that I can deduct. Anne: Does this change yearly? Do you get a new one every year? So -- Pilar: I do. Anne: Because the tax laws change every year. So my accountant has to stay up to date. And of course that's why I pay her. So she knows the latest. How much can I donate every year? How much can I deduct for this? How much can I deduct for that? And is this a deduction really? And so the cool thing about having one on retainer, and it's not as expensive as you might think, because she just, she's very good at it. And she does it. She just does it for a set number of clients. I'm not that complicated in reality. My business is not that -- it's not like I have retail that I'm shipping out every day and I've got all sorts of vendors that I'm purchasing from. Literally it is essentially my expense is buying equipment and things for the office and things for my business and literally people paying me. And that is a simpler business than let's say a corporation that has employees and all that sort of thing and health benefits. And so for her to manage my account, it's fairly, for what she does, inexpensive. And the nice thing about it is that because she manages it monthly, by the time tax season rolls around, usually most accountants are crazy busy. And I remember like panicking because before I had hired her on a monthly retainer, it was the end of the year, and I was scrambling, right? Oh, here, here are my forms. And I would make copies, scan my copies of everything, and send it to her because she was not local. I used to go to a local one, but you know, now she's, she lives in another state. And so I would make sure I, back in the day, faxed it, sent it securely to her so she could do the taxes, but then it was like, you know, nail-biting because she was working on other clients as well. And there was that deadline. And so she would be so crazy busy that I would be like, oh my God, did you get, you know, and then -- do I owe, do I owe? And if I, oh, I have to prepare or am I getting anything back? And so that's whole that nail-biting period of time, where a good month or two, even if I started at the end of January, here are all my forms. She was insanely busy. So she got to me when she got to me. And so sometimes I'd be waiting a month and I'd be like, do I owe money? So ultimately it's so much nicer now that she already knows my accounts well, and we meet periodically so I can explain, you know, things, money that comes in. What was that for? Where should I categorize that? And basically that's it. And she manages by the way, not just the income coming in in one payment, because I allow my clients to pay me either PayPal credit card, ACH. There's multiple ways that my clients can pay me. And she handles all of those accounts, including my personal account that comes in so that we can make sure that I get the best tax advantages that I can for the year. Pilar: Yeah. That's really important. One of the things that I think is for me, so my brother-in-law used to do my taxes way, way back when, and then one day he basically said, okay, Pilar, you're all grown up. You need to start doing your own taxes. And I was like, what? I was incensed. I was so hurt. And then I was like, yeah, it's called being a grownup. So I went to TurboTax, and I think I might've done one year. Anne: Yeah. We tried that too. It gets complicated when you're personal. And then business. Pilar: The reason why I mentioned is because that's exactly what happened to me is that I thought that I could do it all because -- I know a lot of people who do their -- I know a lot of actors who do their own taxes. And I think that that's awesome. And if you are really good with numbers, and you understand bookkeeping, good for you. But if you don't, and this is something that a really good friend of mine taught me, if there is something that you can't do when you're just butting your head against the wall, there are people who know how to do it better than you. Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: So stop be trying to invent the wheel. Anne: Be smart, outsource. Pilar: Exactly. Go and get an accountant. There are plenty of accountants who are specialized, and that's important, to find an accountant who is specialized in the kind of business that you have. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pilar: And so they know what to deduct, and they know that they can -- you know, so if you have a business, and you're inside your house, they can figure out, you know, I can take this much for, in terms of using my business in the home, because there are ways to structure that, and they know how to do that. Anne: Right. Pilar: But trying to do it on your own when you don't know what you're doing, and you're using a platform, I can't tell you the amount of times I messed up on TurboTax. Anne: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, and us too, it's a nightmare. It is a nightmare. Pilar: And it can cost you a lot of money. And luckily my brother-in-law would, he would like, you know, drag me from the edge. And finally I said, okay, that's fine. I get it. I'm hiring an accountant. Anne: Yeah. Well, it's like one of the, I can do it. Yeah. I'll save money if I do it. In reality, by the time you've finished doing it, you've spent so many hours trying to learn -- Pilar: That you can't get back -- Anne: -- and then do it -- Pilar: You can't get back those hours. Anne: And plus you're not up on all the tax laws. That's the other thing. You could be making deductions that you did not, or you're, you may not know about deductions that you can take. And that is so, so important, which is why for me, I'd rather invest it. I consider it an investment. My accountant is an investment in my business ,and she helps to -- she explains things to me and has to tell her, like, what does this even mean? And I'll just say, hey, look, I'm not proud. We are entrepreneurs. We own our own business. If you do well at that business, I remember the first few years, of course I showed a loss, right? And the government expects that right for businesses. So you can have a loss and I actually did have a loss, but when you start making money, and then if you start making a certain amount of money and you are a self-employed, they look harder at you. And so it is not inconceivable that you will get audited, even if, you know, I mean, look, I'm on the up and up. I mean, my accountant's on the up and up, and I got audited a couple of years ago, and it's not fun, but because we were organized, and she had done my taxes for so long, it was super easy for us to submit, like they thought we were missing paperwork or they wanted proof for some donations or whatever it was. I can't even remember what it was, but we had it. It wasn't a big deal at all, but anything that goes through the government, as you know, takes that amount of time. And she was able to like send the certified letters, send everything that they needed. And then of course they didn't receive it. I got another letter that said, blah, blah, blah, or I owed, and I needed to pay. Whatever that was, she was able to take care of it for me. And it was just, uh, it was, oh, it was just a godsend because otherwise I would have had to do it myself. And it's scary when you get audited. You're like, oh my God, did I do something wrong? Of course I didn't do my, you know, she did it for me. I'm like, oh my God, did something happen? Did we take a deduction that shouldn't have happened? Of course not. So, but you've got to prove it. You've got to prove it to them. So. Pilar: And they know, because they've been doing it for so many years, they know how to go up against the government and say, no, no, it's right here. Anne: Line here. I deducted this. Yup. Pilar: Yeah. They know the lingo. They know how to do it. And also something that I learned this past year is that they are behind a good six weeks. Anne: Always. If, if not more. Pilar: If you ever get a letter from the government, they're responding to something that happened six to eight weeks before this. And so if you're like panicking going, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do, that's why it's always great to have an account in your corner, knowing what's going on, because then everything is up, and it's out in the open. Trying to be underhanded is not great. And if you make a mistake, you're setting yourself back and you're giving yourself a headache when guess what? You could be spending time in the booth. Anne: Sure. Pilar: So like, for example, in this organizer that we were talking about before, it gives you ideas and things that you can deduct. So let's say you haven't really paid attention to your stuff. You can go ahead and look back. That's why a credit card is so important because that's where you see the spending, and you can see, oh, I spent this money on that. Or, oh, I can actually deduct this, but you have to have your receipts all in one place. That's why you want to have a separate credit card. Anne: Oh. And I try to use that credit card for every single transaction. And that includes healthcare as well. Because as part of my business, right, taking care of my health, I have a deductible. I have a healthcare plan through my husband, but what I pay that's not covered by that is also deductible. And that can be towards my tax year. And so if I pay for everything on that credit card, it's super simple to organize for my accountant. Just almost everything goes on the credit card as a matter of fact. I think I only write, I only write checks and that and checks really, the one credit card and checks, and it's been probably the easiest thing ever. I think the fact that I accept multiple credit cards coming in and checks coming in and PayPal and Venmo, I accept all these other incoming pathways of income, that's harder for her to organize than the fact that I only pay out on my credit card or I write a check once in a while. It's funny because I almost don't know how to write a check anymore. Pilar: I know I never do. I almost never do. It's really funny. Anne: And who mails a check? I mean, like oh my God. Pilar: Well, what about when you're sending it to the IRS? Anne: Yes, exactly. Pilar: Then you have to certify it and make sure they get it and return receipt. That whole business. Anne: Goodness. Yep. Pilar: Something that I started doing too for myself, even though I hand everything over, but I like having my stuff organized. So this is, and I'm going to tell the VO BOSSes, this is how I used to do my taxes. Just so you realize -- Anne: The shoe box. Pilar: Practically. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I would have different folders. I had different folders, but I mean, we're talking less than three years ago, I was still doing this. All right? We're not talking like 10, 20 years ago. And I would use either my laptop calculator or I would use my iPhone calculator to add up all my gas. Okay. That's how backward I was. Anne: Oh. And mileage too, remember mileage like, when you would travel anywhere, to a studio. Pilar: Back then. Yeah. But back in the old days. Anne: Before the pandemic. Pilar: Right, exactly. Before the pandemic, but I would literally add everything up, and then I would give her the totals, you know, how much I spent on clothing for auditions, on headshots, and resumes, blah, blah, blah. And there's so many now on the market, but the one I use, and I'm actually thinking of changing to QuickBooks, but I use Quicken. So Quicken is great for you to -- and it's basically, it doesn't really matter what the program is. It's basically for you to be able to see A, you can balance, you can balance your budget that way, which is really important, but you can also see, and it can give you summaries of what you spent over the year. So then you go, oh, okay. This is how much I'm spending on groceries. So this is how much I'm spending on takeout, since you've got all these categories and then you can sit there and you can look. Okay, do I really need, you know, in terms of creating a budget for yourself, because you know, we're still kind of going through this situation and where people, jobs and whatever -- the whole market has changed. So it's really great to keep an inventory of what you're doing, and for tax time, then you've got it all in one place. You just have to say, oh yes, okay. This is how much I spent on classes. This is how much I spent on new equipment. Anne: Yep, coaching or yep, new equipment, studio costs. I have an entire folder when I built my studio for just studio costs. Pilar: Exactly. And all of that of course is deductible because it's your business. And so that way, when you've got a program like Quicken or QuickBooks and there's, you can keep track of it through waves. There's the waves app, the Mint, there's, there's so many, Next Wallet, you just keep track of what you're spending and also what you're earning. And I think it's really helpful because really, and truly, we are voice artists. We're also entrepreneurs. We're also our own business. If we treat ourselves like that, if we treat ourselves like serious business people, other people are going to, when they look at our business, they're going to go, oh, okay. She knows where this is. She knows how to, you know, the invoice, this, this is how I do my business. And that is something that, you know, you can go home at night and go, yeah, I'm a business. I'm an artist doing my business. And that's really important. And then when tax time rolls around -- tax time -- you're not freaking out. Right? Because you've got your stuff organized. Anne: That's the biggest thing. BOSSes, if you take anything away from this, it's being organized sooner rather than later, all through the year, every single day. Be organized, track those expenses and have that account, try to keep it as simple as possible. And like I said, we're actually kind of lucky. We're not as complex as some corporations that provide healthcare and hire employees. I mean, I outsource, so that's a whole other thing because I pay people as well. But honestly, compared to like a normal corporation, it's fairly simple what we do and what we need to keep track of. So I think that if you can give yourself a certain amount of time each week, each day to just make sure those expenses are categorized, they're organized, they're put into financial software, you talk about QuickBooks or Quicken -- I used to use Quicken, but now I use QuickBooks online with my accountant. We can both go into the same account and look and try to reconcile. If she has any questions, she can ask me. And it's a really great way to just keep on track with things. That's the best thing you can do is keep on track because by the end of the year, the last thing you want to do is to be scrambling. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. It really is great to be able to see what it is that you do in your daily life. We couldn't really do this before the age of digital. And so it's really nice to be able to see, because we're freelancers at the end of the day. Unless you have a nine to five job doing this, you don't really know how you're spending your money. So it's, it's a really nice sort of bird's-eye view of seeing, okay, this is what I spent on gas. This is what I spent on takeout. Maybe I can cook a little bit more at home if the money situation, if it's that time of year, when there're not a lot of auditions coming in and you're not booking work as much as you'd like to, then you can say, oh, okay, I can shave a little bit off of this. Because you see, and you have your totals and you see what you've spent for the month. You've, you've already figured out what your budget is, so. And it takes time. I didn't come to this, these realizations overnight. It took a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to figure it out. Anne: And tears. Pilar: You know, but there're great resources online. You know, I don't know if people are aware, there's this organization called actorsfund.com and you just have to basically, you know, you can do orientation sign up as an actor because we are actors, and they have all these great courses like budgeting nuts and bolts, how to create your own budget. Anne: Oh, nice. How do people get there again? What is that, actorsfund.com? Pilar: Actorsfund.com. Anne: Awesome. Great. Pilar: There're all sorts of programs. I mean, if you live in New York, there's ways you can, they talk about housing. They talk about mindfulness meditation. Anne: Because after we do our taxes, we need that. Pilar: We need to lay down. Anne: We need mindful meditation to calm down. I also want to say though, that not just for full-time entrepreneurs, but for people who are doing this part-time, I remember when I did it part-time, I didn't at the time have enough opportunity to make a certain amount of money so that the taxes were simpler. If I made a thousand dollars in the year, did I actually report that as a business income? Not necessarily, but if you are part-time, and you intend on either you're getting enough work, and you're intending on going full time, getting that business bank account, figuring out if you're going to be an LLC or an S-corp or DBA, whatever that is, I think the sooner you start that, the better. And it's always good to be mindful of keeping your accounts separate. So if you are doing this part-time, maybe get, if you're not incorporated yet, or you're not a DBA yet, just get a separate credit card and only use that. And then maybe see if you can get a different bank account. Hopefully your bank will allow you to get a business bank account so that anything that comes in or goes out, goes through that account. So start early with that. Pilar: And check out, I think it's, Next Wallet. You can actually do comparison of credit cards to get really good deals. So you can get a credit card that can give you points, and you can even pay for some of your bill with the points. Anne: Yeah, that's, that's what mine is. So whenever I use to buy, I get money back at the end of the year. I get like 2%, 3% back. And that's typically what I do because I don't want to pay my full bill. Right? Pilar: There are a lot of resources out there. You just have to look for them to help you. And it does get easier with time. Anne: It does get easier, guys. BOSSes, you can survive tax time. Pilar, and I are here to tell you that. Get yourself organized. Pilar: It'll go from "it's Tax Time" to "it's tax time, yay." Anne: There you go. There we go. Wow. Good topic. Not always one that I love talking about, but hey, it's a necessary topic. And to be BOSSes, we have to move forward and get prepared and pay those taxes and survive the season. So BOSSes, we have the faith that you can do this. I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that allows you to network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Pilar: See you next time. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Have you ever tried singing your audition copy? Anne & Pilar do! This week, your hosts will teach you how to let go in the booth and approach scripts using a musical edge. All copy has a distinct flow and requires proper pacing, a distinct rhythm, and hints of uniqueness that keep listeners interested. Get ready to listen, sing, and most importantly, break down copy like a #VOBOSS! More at: https://voboss.com/singing-and-vo Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with a very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey, Pilar. [Pilar humming] Anne: Hey, I recognize that. Hey, is that this song? [song playing] Ugh, Pilar, I love, love, love this song. And you know what? Even if I didn't know what it meant, like, I feel like the title just says it all, "Attacks of Happiness." Like honestly, like that's just a joyful, happy song. You are so multi-talented -- again, I say the triple, quadruple, multilevel threat. I think there's a lot to be said about singing and musicality in voiceover. And I'd love to chat with you about that today. Pilar: Yeah, it's funny because a lot of people think that singing and acting aren't connected or they say, oh, I can't sing. You don't have to be a singer to have a sense of musicality and incorporate that into your work. Anne: Or a musician. We'll just say musician, right? I think there's so many parallels in voiceover. Pilar: Absolutely. Because the thing is is that when you're given a script, whether it's 30 seconds, or it's, you know, an audiobook, or it's 10 pages of e-learning there's beats and there's rhythm to it. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: You have to find that, you have to find the musicality of whatever it is that you're talking about. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so it really doesn't matter what the, what the length is. You need to break it down and create beats and find the beats and find where there are the parts where you can slow down and speed up. Anne: And the rhythm. Pilar: And the tonality of it. Anne: Well, you know, what's so interesting, and I teach conversational melody to my students, and what's so interesting -- yeah, what's so interesting -- Pilar: Oh, talk about that, that's so cool. Anne: -- we don't -- thank you -- we don't ever really listen to our own conversation and break it down into melody, but all the time we're getting specs that say conversational or talk to us like it's your best friend. Right? And so, because we don't think about what we sound like melodically when we're talking conversationally, over the years, I've broken it down technically. But again, you can't spend too much time thinking about the technicality of it, but just know that we're organically thinking about what we're saying, right? So that has everything to do with the pacing and the rhythm of how we talk, because I'm thinking of things to say in my brain. And then they come out my mouth, and when that happens, I'm thinking, okay, now I know what I'm going to say. Right? So I'm thinking, here's my rhythm and my length of what I'm going to say. And then I know what I'm saying. And ultimately, when it comes to important words that I want you to hear, I'm basically making those whole notes or holding the notes longer. So I really want you to listen to this. So I've really like emphasized that. And so that becomes part of a melody. It becomes part of music. If you read music, think of it as your whole note, and all the words that lead up to the important word as your half notes, your 16th notes, your 8th notes, whatever that is. And then you also need to think about like, phrasing, right? Because I don't breathe in the middle of what I'm saying to you. I don't do this and then breathe and chop my phrases like this. I do this. I just -- all my words are kind of flowing along, and I'm creating a phrase or a thought or an idea in one breath. So it's similar to singing, right, and singing phrases because you don't stop and breathe in the middle of them all. You basically have one breath and you're like, hey, this is what I want to say to you. You're not going to go, hey, this is what I want to say to you. It's no, it's, it's really very different. And I think what people might tend to not think about is when you're being conversational and believable, it's all about the pacing, all about the rhythm and the pacing, which makes it more believable. And if you're too consistent in anything that you do, right, in your melody, in your beat, in your rhythm, it becomes like white noise. And so that's where people tune you out, right? It becomes like a metronome. Pilar: Yup. Anne: And now I've heard that enough. And so I tune you out. So I think that rhythm and the melody is so, so important to the musicality. And like you were saying, I mean, it's almost like with voiceover, it is a song. Your script is a song. Pilar: I love that you teach that. I think that that's awesome. And for those VO BOSSes who think, I don't know how to carry a tune, and I don't know about beats, if you've ever sat in a restaurant or a bar and you've tapped your foot to something, or you've been watching television and you're kind of like, you get into it, you're holding the beat. You are carrying the beat in your feet. So it's part of us. Anytime we hear music and any time something strikes us, and we, we start moving our shoulders, let's say, or we start moving our bodies or just our torsos, we are holding rhythm. Anne: Oh yeah. Rhythm and energy. Pilar: Yeah. Rhythm and energy, absolutely. So when you are looking at a script, let's say a 30-second script, you have to figure out where that is. And by musicality, doesn't mean that I'm going to be talking like this. I'm no, it's not about -- Anne: And you don't want to be sing-song either. Pilar: No, absolutely not. Anne: Right? Exactly. Pilar: But there is a rhythm. You know, if you listen to like a lot of the times, I, I love to listen to the Superbowl commercials, but I close my eyes, or I will look at a commercial and I'll turn the sound off because you will see the rhythm in the movement, as well as in the vocal quality of it. There's a very specific rhythm to certain products. And they're very, very aware of this. So as voice actors, we have to become aware of it as well, so we're not, as you said before, you know, we're not the same all the way through. Because it's really easy to get into that flow. And you're like, oh, this is really great. I'm in the flow. So I'm just going to keep talking the same way. And it's like, mm-mm, that's not the way we talk in real life. Anne: Right, right. But I love how you brought up that there's to, any particular script or any particular commercial, if you listen, there's a musicality. And then there's something that they call sonic branding. Right? [McDonald's jingle] you know, that kind of thing, or "we got the meats, "that kind of thing where it becomes part of the brand, that melody, but you want your melody when you're voicing something to be something that draws the listener in. And that usually means something that is not consistent or musical in any kind of consistent pattern, because that then becomes predictable. And the last thing that we want to do is to become predictable in our voiceover acting. Pilar: Yeah. It's really important to, when you're listening to voiceovers, because that's where you do the homework. That's when you find out, oh, what is it that these people are getting, you know, paid the big bucks, let's say for super bowl commercials, what is it that they have? And you'll find this little irregular heartbeats, shall we say? And you'll find little pieces of humor and little turns of a phrase, and it's not about copying it. It's about -- a big part of finding the musicality is also feeling it. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: You have to be able to kind of feel the rhythm because when we're sitting there and we're tapping our feet, if we're in a bar or we're in a restaurant, we're feeling the rhythm and we're like, oh, okay. "I'm having attacks of happiness." So, you know, you can sit there and you can find that rhythm. You can do that when you're speaking, but you have to find the rhythm. Anne: I have to tell you, and we're talking like all areas of music that can help you in voice over, I have an app called Appcompanist. And actually that was introduced to me by my singing teacher. I do have a singing teacher, and what I love about singing. And even if I don't think, look, I'm not going to go out on the stage anytime soon and sing at the bar down the street. No, but it's all about being able to control, also warmup. I mean, singing is a great warmup for your voice, and also figure out where I can place my vocals. You know, there's a lot to be said for placing vocals in different places. And that becomes a way that we can explore our range as a voice actor and range in terms of pitch. But I don't think we should ever become like, oh, I just need to pitch up in this particular note for the rest of the copy. It just gives us a place to start from. And that is very, very helpful in getting different ranges in your vocal footprint. Pilar: Yes, I totally get what you're saying. An image came to me as to, because obviously as we grow older, our voices get deeper, and I've found that I've found a deepness in my chest that I -- I was always up here talking here. I was sort of like up in my throat. Anne: Yeah, me too. Pilar: And then when I started concentrating on my chest, I have found different levels of my chest voice. So it's right here, and it's really, really intense. Anne: And the cool thing is, is that it becomes a place where you feel where the sound is coming from, rather than trying to mimic or trying to like get to a particular note. It becomes, oh, I feel the vibration in my chest. So that's all I care about thinking about when I'm voicing this, just make sure that that voice is coming from my chest. Or, and I actually saw this -- Debbie Derryberry, who's a wonderful character actress, she has a TikTok channel, which she has quite a few followers. She just reached 1 million. But she talked about how she created some of her character voices. And so one of them was like, she would actually be talking, say, okay, so she's a little bit younger. So now I feel like her voice is coming from her eyes. You know? And so, as she was saying it, she was pointing to the different places where her voice was coming out. And that really helps to change the pitch of the voice. And also she added the emotion and the feeling along with it, and that really created a believable character. It was really a fun thing to watch, but that is the idea of a vocal placement and how singing can help your voiceover to really evolve and expand your repertoire of characters. Pilar: Absolutely. One of the things that I do, and I, I need to do it more often, but it happens more when I'm stuck. I'm looking at a piece of copy, and I'm like, ah, I don't know what to do with this. I start singing it. I sing the whole thing. Anne: Oh, interesting. Pilar: Yeah. So if you've got "plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh, what a relief it is," you know, that kind of a thing, or so I will do the reverse, if I'm hearing a song. So for example, this is a script that I did a couple of years ago. "When it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises. [sings] When it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises." Just something as simple as that will completely change, if you go through the entire script, it'll completely change the way you thought something could be. 'Cause here's the thing that I found about voice. I've always seen my voice is kind of like a race horse. And sometimes it just shoots out of the stable, and it's like, I don't know where it's going because it's like completely wild. And I have to rein it in. But sometimes I need to give it like a little push. So I'll sing my copy. And it's like, when a dog turns around three times and then settles himself down -- my cat, my cat does the same thing, of course, because she copied my dog when he was alive -- but it's kind of like, if you don't know where to go with something and then you kind of distract, you distract it. Anne: I think it leads obviously to a different melody when you voice it. And possibly, I think it leads you to thinking about it in different emotions. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. Anne: Which I'm always like, if you want to create you know the ABC takes, which I think everybody in the world just goes, this is take one. This is take two. This is take three. Right? And all they do is change the first note. Right. So if you think about that, that's so predictable. And we really need our takes to be completely unique and different. So I love that you lead with singing it because that can lead you to a different sound. And then that sound can lead you to a different emotion, and that can lead you to a different place in your imagination. So that really takes you almost into a different scene and a different reaction to the scene, which then gives you a completely different take. Bam. Pilar: And also -- exactly. Because the thing is, you're looking at the script, but you -- myself, I don't know what -- I may read the script, but I don't really know what it's about because I've spent exactly 30 seconds on it. You know, a copywriter has spent days or even weeks on it. Anne: Which is why we should all spend a little bit more than 30 seconds. Pilar: Exactly. It's my job to become familiar with it. So if I don't really know, let's say about care.com. Care.com... "Care.com understands this better than anyone." Well, do they really understand it better than anyone? Anne: What do they understand? Pilar: Exactly. They know that you want to find someone great who can bond with your kids and take care of them. And then if I do different things, if I go to different places, so let's say I'm stuck with this. And I'll, "when it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises." I'm not going to do that for the actual thing, but that'll bring me somewhere and I'll go, oh, that's really interesting. I did it sort of like an older person like this and Care.com -- "when it comes to finding quality care for your kids" -- that just gave it a whole different range. I mean, I don't know how different, but I felt it different when I went back and I did it quickly just as an example, because I got to a different place. Anne: Yeah. I get that. Here's a thought, you know, it's so funny that you say you sing it because a lot of times when I come in my studio getting ready to do an audition, I'm singing because I'm like, "hello, and here I am," you know, "I'm in the booth now." And so I'll just start singing it and I'll sing my script. It's so funny that you said that. And I consider that a little bit of a warmup, but here's a thought. What if we just started singing script while we then did a quick Google search and went to the website? Because I think then again, I think there's a visual branding that you get from that company that can tell you how they want to portray themselves to the customer. And I think that would help a lot in terms of giving you a different scene, a visual plus your singing, and then go back to the copy and see what happens. Pilar: And there's a big part of this that -- I can only speak for myself. But when I'm looking at a script for the first time, I have a built-in skeptic, and I have the adult that has to do her homework, and she has to get the audition done. And what I do when I sing, and I also do exactly what you just said, which is I look at the copy and I'm sort of distracting myself. It's almost like I'm fooling the adult part of me so I can kind of say, okay, it's time for you to take a step back and then let the child enter and play with this script. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: That gives it more flavors too, because if you're looking at it with the eyes of an adult, like, okay, I have to break this down, and I have to do this, which is important. Breaking down the script is really important and finding the beats, but it's also being able to say, okay, let's put the adult aside for a second and let's just play with it. Let's sing, let's be goofy. Let's put on a boa and the -- you know, that's why I talk about using props in the booth when I'm doing auditions, and let's be a diva. And I have a teacher who a lot of the times I'll be doing characters, and then he'll have me go way, way off on a tangent and give me just, just to go completely over the top. And then he's like, okay, now go right into the character straight. Anne: Yeah, yeah, you do the wild take and then completely over the top, then bring it down. Yeah. That's an excellent piece of advice too. And by going over the top, you can be singing, right? Again, I feel like just taking yourself out of that like metronome of here's, what it should sound like, and then getting yourself off of that melody, whatever it takes, singing, to get yourself off of that melody. There's so many people that have, they come into the booth with a melody in their head because they've heard it for years, a particular announcery way. This is different. What you need to do is to, again, make it that authentic believable and take it to a different note, really. I have a blog that I wrote that's called Perfectly Imperfect and the voice artist is one of my favorite doing this corporate piece, which is about two minutes long, talking about how technology should be made for all of us, right? She's a beautiful voice, but it's imperfect. It cracks, it splits. It's a little raspy. And she ends up talking on notes that we wouldn't anticipate, meaning she's very much in the scene, very much talking and thinking as she's talking. And it leads her to these notes in the copy, which are beautiful and so unique that it makes me listen. And I think that that is where we want to strive to be. Like, we can't just say the words in a melody that is like, we've already rehearsed it. We already know the ending of the story. We have to work in that melody that surprises us, that as we discover what's happening, it's evident in our melody. It's evident in our emotion. And I think that a lot of times, that melody doesn't have to be all over the map. You don't have to be an opera singer. We don't have to be singing scales that are crazy. It can be, again, very nuanced. In our conversational melodies, we don't really, if you're talking about music, we don't really go thirds. Right? We aren't talking about this because we're not that excited all the time, right? Or maybe we're only excited for a few, a few words, which in case you can advance that third. You're almost never going between a C and a C sharp, right, or a C and a D in conversational melody, a C and a D. I didn't say C and a D! I said, C and a D. If you're musical, you're hearing that C and a D, I went up just a touch. And so musically, you're not creating crazy riffs or crazy splits, unless maybe you're a character. Right? And you have a more dynamic personality. So I think that the musicality changes with the character, changes with the emotion. Pilar: Yes, absolutely. One of the things that I think is so important is to recognize, because I struggle with this. When I look at the copy and the reason why I'll go out and sing it is because my first instinct is to play it safe. It's like, I'm going to be a good little girl and read the specs. And I'm going to follow the specs to the letter. And I'm going to do my little homework and do my beats and everything. And there's a moment where you have to just get out of that box. Anne: Be the naughty girl. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: You've got to be the naughty girl. Pilar: Oh Anne, now we got some, we got a little insight in here to Anne Ganguzza's private life. VO BOSSes, take note. Anne: Oh my goodness. But isn't that what they tell us all the time? Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: You've got to catch the casting director's ear who has just listened to the same melody 200 times. Think about it. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. So they're looking for the raspy. Anne: What does that melody that they expect? They're looking for the unexpected. Yeah. Pilar: They're looking for the imperfect. So when you hear something, this is something that's really important in acting that I learned many years ago, you do your beats, you do your homework, you rehearse it, you rehearse it. But then when you do actually do the copy for a take, you're allowing the words to speak as if it's for the first time. So you're acting for the first time, because you know, the one thing that I hear when I'm in workshops is, you know, people they're reading the script, and it's like, you cannot read the script. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: You, you can read the script when it's the first time. That's awesome. It's great. But if you're going to do that for an audition, you better have a whole world behind it. So it's like, and that's where employing something like music comes into it. I mean, this is something that someone else me in doing promos. It really helps to have something like a song in the back. So for example, I'll take my headphones off, and I'll put my iPhone headphones in so it doesn't bleed, and I'll be listening to music on my phone. And then I'll just listen to a piece of music that is going to help me out for this particular audition. And that will kind of get me into the rhythm of it. And that, it's just really funny, 'cause I'll listen to when I first read it and then I'll listen to it the second time around, and I'll be like, oh my God, this is a completely differently read. It's the funniest thing. Anne: It's completely different. I love that for a tip because you know, it's funny. I remember like, and sometimes I'll do this. I'll do an example of here's why, if you're just simply yourself telling a story and you're focused on that, that melody fits any kind of music underneath you. You could have something strong and dramatic, or you can have something that's quiet. And just look, I'm talking to you from the heart, and you could have swells of music when you're just like, I'm talking from the heart and then you could be dramatic and loud underneath you, that fits. And it also fits with a calm piano piece. And it's so interesting when I do that example, I'll actually put different music underneath a very conversational voice and show how it really works. So that authentic, real sound, that melody goes with any type of music. And I think that's why it's really requested quite a bit. Not only for that reason, because you can put any kind of music or maybe visuals with it, because it works, because you're telling the story. But also just because it's effective. Like if you're fighting with the other elements of the piece, which would be music and visuals, then you're fighting, and that is not effective in engaging your audience, plus it sells, right? That's like the bottom line. Most people want that, because a real authentic person is going to sell more than an announcer or somebody that's mimicking or somebody that doesn't sound believable. And so therefore you have to understand that melody of being engaged in a conversation without really trying to follow any other type of melody or mimicking a melody. I love the talk about music today. Pilar: The one thing that I will say, especially for the people out there who don't sing, don't censor yourself. Even if you're off key, it doesn't matter. You're in your booth, you're in a safe place. Anne: That's right. Pilar: Sometimes, 'cause I have a, I have a really good ear, so I can always hear when I'm just a little bit off or when I hear any other singer, that's like literally like a sharp over or a sharp or a flat under, and I can hear it. And it's like, unh, but the important thing is, if you're on a roll and you're going at it in the booth, don't stop yourself. Follow through on that idea, even if you're not really sure where it's going. A lot of the times as voiceover actors, we want to get it perfect, and we don't let ourselves go through the entire phrase of that. So if you feel like I'm not really where it's going, keep going, because your voice, again, your voice is like a race horse. You have to keep going with it even if it might not be going in the exactly the direction that you imagined, don't stop yourself because you may find some great nuggets. Anne: Yeah, let it, let it flow. Pilar: Yeah. You may find some great nuggets in there. Anne: Yeah. Let it flow. And what's so interesting is I'm going to say -- Pilar: "Let it flow. Let it flow." I just had to bring that in. Anne: As we round out the end of this episode is try then, and this is a hard one. So understand your melody, let it evolve. Let it come out of you naturally without trying to listen to it. Because once you try to listen to the melody, as you're speaking it or voicing it, you then distract yourself from telling that story. And it's, it's another layer of your brain that doesn't need to be invoked with listening to what you sound like. Because when you listen to what you sound like, then you're listening to what you sound like. And you're not concentrated on letting the music flow out of you, letting the script flow out of you. And that's such a tough thing to grasp. And I want BOSSes out there to know, this does not happen overnight. This is something that all of us as actors, we work on this and hone our craft for years. We're constantly honing our craft. So I know there's so many people out there, they get very frustrated. And when you're building an ear, like you said, you have an ear, and that's could be a whole other podcast. Like how do you build your ear? It is not an overnight thing. Building your ear takes time. And it's very difficult to detach yourself while still hearing yourself. As I was just saying, don't listen to your melody; just let it evolve and let it flow out of you. And that's a tough thing to do. And while you're developing your ear, all of a sudden you can hear all sorts of weird things. And you're like, I don't even know what I'm listening to anymore. That's the person who does 15 consecutive auditions in a row. By the 15th, you don't even know what you're listening to anymore. It's then become a repetitive rut. Pilar: Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and something really to keep in mind is that there's only room for one role in the booth. You cannot be the actor, the director, and the critic all at once. Anne: Yeah. That's an excellent point. PIlar: When you're doing the piece or, you know, beforehand, you can direct yourself, and then you have to let go, put that one to the side, the director role to the side, do the piece, stop, and then edit, but really try not to do it mid-sentence because you're just, it's like, that's like the death of creativity. Anne: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Wow. What a cool episode. Thank you, Pilar. This is so interesting. Pilar: Yeah, it was, it was great. And I learned a lot from you too. It's like, now I want to take your conversational melody course. Anne: Thank you. I took piano when I was younger and I did sing a little bit to the point where I think that's where I base a lot of where my voice and my words come out. I mean, everything's a melody, right? Pilar: Yep. Absolutely. Everything is a melody. Anne: That being said, I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that allows us to explore our melodies with friends and peers and coworkers near and far. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. and we'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: "Ciao, bella mia." >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Microphones are microscopes. They pick up everything, including thoughtful acting! In this episode, Anne & Pilar discuss why acting is essential to a successful VO career. Acting requires imagination, creativity, and using much more than just your voice. Tune in for advice on involving your body in your read, the intimacy of voice acting, and why you need to develop a character for every genre… More at https://voboss.com/the-art-of-voice-acting Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Good morning, Pilar. How are you? Pilar: I am great, Anne. I'm doing well. How are you? Anne: Oh, you know, I'm doing all right. Except I, I've already spilled half a cup of coffee. Oops. I just -- Pilar: Did it again? Anne: -- I admitted that I drink -- no, I admit that I drink coffee. I love my coffee, and people that listen to this podcast know how much I love my coffee. So I have to chase it with lots and lots of water so it doesn't dry my mouth out. And hopefully you're not hearing mouth noise at this point, but anyway. Pilar: I just heard one. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Anne: So there we go. So then, I'm going to have you talk so you can hear less of my mouth noise. Pilar: Okay. Anne: But I love our conversations that we've been having. And in our last couple of episodes, we talked about what it was like for you to be a bilingual VO in the industry and what it takes to be successful. And I want to kind of step back because you've had such an extensive career in all sorts of things. And I think something that's really important that I want to kind of reign in and talk a little bit more about is your acting experience. And I know that there's a lot of voiceover artists out there that are like, oh my gosh, I've never really acted. At least I came from the corporate side of things and didn't have an acting background, but as I went along, I learned acting. And I don't want people to be afraid that well, just because they don't have a ton of acting experience that they can't do voiceover. However, I do believe it's important for us to talk about how important acting is in our career. Pilar: It is, I would say, fundamental. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's why the word acting is in voice acting. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: You know, this is something that also happens. Sometimes people think that you're like a talking head when you're on television, because you only get to see, let's say shoulders or chest, shoulders, and face. But when you're acting, you're acting with your whole body, and that goes for voice as well. So when I started acting in high school, when I started getting formal training, I majored in theater and we had acting classes. And you know, you do the proverbial, you know, act like a teapot, act like a tiger, and all these sense exercises. Anne: I was a dog in my third grade play. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. You know how to go bow-wow. Anne: I'm just saying. Pilar: But those things are important. What does it feel like to be on all fours rather than to be upright? And it's something that I think that a lot of voice actors don't think that they need. And you need to have those sensory experiences, however you're going to get them. So a lot of the work that I did when I was in college and later when I went down to Colombia, for example, I kept taking acting classes even while I had a television career, because I had to keep the body trained, because the body gets rusty, and we're, we tend to be lazy. And I'm the first to admit it. Anne: I think to be said for -- you made me just think about when I was a little girl, right? Remember when we had all kinds of imagination or is it just me? It's like, I used to imagine -- Pilar: Yes. Back then. Anne: Back then I had so much imagination, and I would play with my dolls. I would teach my dolls. I had my stuffed Mickey Mouse. I dragged him everywhere. And we became like acting partners if, for nothing else. Right? Pilar: Totally. Anne: I had all sorts of adventures with him. And I think that there's a lot to be said for that. And somehow when we get older, sometimes we lose that unless we're actively going into acting like you were. And I think that we need to readdress that as we become adults and find areas or times when we can go back to that time to create scenes and use our imagination. And I think there's a lot of that in voiceover that we have to do behind the mic because we're acting in front of a non-existent audience. Pilar: Do you remember, did you ever make forts? Anne: Oh yes. All the time. Pilar: Okay. So making forts, you're making forts out of pillows, out of blankets. You're making up a scene, a place, a cubby hole, a cave that basically doesn't exist. Anne: Right. Pilar: And that's what we have to do when we step in front of the mic and we're doing, let's say, a video game, and we have to imagine that we are a warrior or we are a computer game. I did a video game last year that came out, actually it was in 2020 or 2021. And it came out a couple of weeks ago where I played, I actually played a computer voice. That was one of my characters. And then the other character was an old woman. And so for the old woman, I changed my stance completely. So I was hunched over. I always have, since my voiceover booth is my closet, I basically just took my clothes -- I did leave some clothes out, but I just padded the whole thing. And I have a couple of scarves handy. When I would play that character, that older character I would hunch over, and I would put a shawl over me over my head, over my shoulders. Anne: So you got props. Pilar: Yeah, oh, I always have props, always have props. Whether it's a cell phone, I have, I actually have a toy gun on my desk, a little plastic toy gun, because so many of these characters, we know when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing them, they require, let's say the older lady, she was hallucinating. And so she was seeing things, and she was just immersed in grief. So I had to go there with her in order for my voice to register. It wasn't that I was manipulating the voice. I had to feel her sadness and her grief and her seeing things, which weren't really there because she was so enmeshed in her grief. And so the only way that I can do that is if I imagine it. So you're absolutely right about going back in time. If there is a time that you can go back to. And I did this all the time when I was in Colombia. There were so many characters that I did that I had no previous experience in playing. Anne: Well, I was going to say, I say, Pilar, I know you, and you're not evil, but yet you played an evil character. Right? Pilar: Oh, and she was so much fun to play. Anne: And, you know, what's interesting is I watched the little clip that you had, and I don't remember what particular scene it was, but you were having a conversation with someone else. Your hair was short. And again, I don't understand Spanish, which again, it's one of those things I kicked myself for not learning. And I'm going to, I really should just start learning it -- but just your facial expressions alone, you embodied that character. Like you didn't have to understand Spanish to understand that you were an evil character in that. And it was literally like, what, 20 seconds, 30-second clip. Pilar: Yeah. She was so mean. So nasty. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And people would stop me on the street all the time in Colombia. And they would say -- because the name of the show was "Eternamente Manuela," Eternally Manuela," and Manuela was my first cousin. Anne: Would they hate you? Pilar: So they was like, oh my God, they would do two things. They would say, why are you -- they would stop me on the streets. Why so mean to Manuela? Or they would meet me and they'd go, oh, wow. You're really nice. What happened? It was just like, well, I'm playing a character. She was really, really evil. However, when you're playing a character, I never saw her as being evil when I was playing her. I just saw her as being misunderstood. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And so I did an outline for her. I did a backstory for her, where she came from, how she grew up, what were some things that might have brought her to that present moment of when she first steps into the character, into the script that first day. And that really informed what I would do for the rest of the show. Anne: So you weren't thinking like, you're actually playing mean, but -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- because you had such a backstory built up already, it became a reaction. Is that correct? Pilar: Exactly. So this, this came with time because I had time to rehearse before I started the show. So when I'm in the booth, and I've got a script and I'm handed sides at, let's say 5:00 in the afternoon, which is when agents send them generally. And then they're due the next morning. Exactly. And I'm looking at a piece of paper, I'm looking at a piece of paper with words, and that's all there is. There might be a description thrown in and there might be some specs. Anne: There might be a picture if it's a character, right? Pilar: There might be a picture. But generally you're just, it's a piece of paper, and it's not even a piece of paper. It's a bunch of words on a screen. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: So it's my job as an actor to imagine this character. And if I'm talking about anything, I'm talking about commercial, promo, whatever it is that you're given. If you're talking about Folger's Coffee, it's delicious. You have to see and smell that coffee. So let's say you're not Anne Ganguzza, and you hate coffee. Okay? So you have to imagine, okay, so I hate coffee, let's say, and I don't, but let's say I do. And I'm, and I have an audition to do the next day. Well, I have to find something in my memory bank of what I love that resembles coffee. Because if I don't like coffee, I hate the taste of it. Well, maybe I like hot chocolate or I like hot apple cider, so I have to substitute. And I have to imagine, and I have to feel, feel it. I have to taste it. I have to see it. I have to hear it. So I can hear the drip, drip, drip. So using all the senses, that's where the imagination, that's how you can get that character. And you can do that. You know, at the beginning, people will go, oh yeah, well it's acting. And you know, I just sit there and I read the copy, and I get into it. And I read it a few times. Well, absolutely. You read it a few times, but you start sort of clicking on your memory bank to see what you can bring into it. Because when you bring in your memories, I mean, we can, we can do this exercise right now. So what's your favorite food? Anne: Oh, all of it. Probably bread. Pilar: Okay. What's your favorite type of bread? Anne: Italian. Pilar: Be more specific? A Tuscan loaf. Okay. So I want you, okay. Perfect. Artisan Tuscan, loaf from La Brea Bakery. I want you to put yourself in the bakery right now. I want you to close your eyes, and I want you to feel, and I'm in the Tuscan bakery too, even though I've never been there -- Anne: It's warm from the ovens. Pilar: Okay. And so it's warm -- Anne: Because they're baking bread. Pilar: They're baking bread. And it's like, your mouth is starting to salivate. Anne: 'Cause I can smell the bread baking. Pilar: You can smell the bread. And so maybe you ask for the loaf, you get the bread, you get it sliced, right? Anne: And I can see it because it's golden. Pilar: And you can see it. And then you take it home. Anne: It's got a little bit of a crust. Pilar: And you cannot wait. You've decided you need to taste the bread before you leave the store. So what I want you to do is I want you to just talk about the bread that you're eating right now. Anne: Okay. So first of all, I'm going to tell you that I like a dense bread, so -- that has a crispy crust, right? So it's crispy on the outside and it's a little heavy in my hands. Pilar: Stop right there. I want you to say it as you're tasting it. It's crispy the outside. Anne: It's crispy on the outside and it's heavy in my hand. So it's, it's dense. It's got a lot of flavor. Pilar: What does it taste like? Anne: Heaven. It tastes like -- well, I need to have butter on it. So I put butter on it. It's just, it's got, it's got, oh, it's got, it's salty. It's it's even, even sweet to me. Pilar: Okay. And see what you just did there? You just gave that little paragraph a whole bunch of different flavors and colors because you were experiencing it as you were saying it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: So that's what we have to do with every piece of copy. Anne: And now I'm hungry. Pilar: I am too. I'm like I'm in that Tuscan bakery. Anne: But wait, I just want to say this is for everything. I want to reiterate that we're talking about acting for every genre. You know, people think that e-learning and corporate narration and telephony, you don't have a character. Oh my gosh. Yes. You absolutely have to have a character as well. It may not be as dynamic maybe or as emotional because it depends on the experience that you're in. Right? I think if you're going to be taught a lesson from a teacher, the teacher's not necessarily going to be sad and crying or emotional in that sense, or if you're doing a corporate narration, right? You're in a professional environment. So you may or may not have a wide range of emotions, but you'll absolutely have nuanced emotions and those emotions, right, and the acting, you absolutely have to have those nuances because you're not just reading the words that puts you in the scene and it makes you believable. Pilar: Absolutely, Anne. I will go one step further because it is actually to a person who works for State Farm, it is that important. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: You approach every piece of copy as it is appropriate to the genre that you're talking about. So let's say through the commercial, when he EF Hutton talks, people listen. And it was so effective because people were sitting there, they were talking and, and then the scene was that everybody was talking and then that person stopped. The voiceover would say it and then it stopped. And so you knew that that was the EF Hutton commercial. So that can register in your voice. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: If you are thinking -- 'cause it doesn't matter whether it's bread or it's a video game character or it's Charles Schwab. Anne: Right. Pilar: It's really all about what you put into it. So if you're doing a commercial about Charles Schwab, you're dressed in a business suit. You're sitting in your, and there's a whole bunch of investment bankers. If you don't know what it is, you look it up. That's what YouTube is for. Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. Pilar: YouTube is such a great resource. Anne: You to take that minute, take that minute and Google, for goodness' sake. Pilar: Go look up the product, go to ispot TV, go listen, go, go get your feet immersed in it, go see the competition, see what they're doing. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: It doesn't take more than five, ten minutes. Anne: It really doesn't. You know what? It amazes me Pilar that there are so many people that just, they rush to get so many auditions done in a day. And yet they don't take a minute to really research the product, the brand, the company, whatever it is, right? For the most part, doing that little extra work really, really helps you in just upping your game and taking it to a whole new. Pilar: Absolutely. Because here's the thing. Whether or not you get selected, because obviously the odds, you know, there's so many people auditioning at once for one role. To me, it's more important to have a well-crafted audition, that I stopped and thought about it. I don't have to spend hours on it. No. But when I play it back and I go away for a minute and I, let's say, go get a cup of water, and then I come back and I listen to it again. Is it something that I can be proud of? Or am I just sending it in? Because I waited until the last minute, and I did it and I just have to get it in before the deadline? So you want it to be as real as possible so that the person listening on the other end will go, oh, okay. I can't use her, but she's got a great voice, because that has happened to me. You know, over the past -- Anne: Or you can tell, well, she can act. I think there's a lot of that when they're listening to the audition, we may not get that gig, but you will absolutely prove yourself that you are an actor. Pilar: Well, and here's something that's really important to know is that the casting director gets a whole bunch of voices together from the agents and then sends it off to the client. And then it's the client, the copywriter who makes the decision. But really and truly, when the casting director, since they listen to every audition, they're going to be hearing your voice over and over and over again. So if you're presenting good auditions, there is a situation, even though there are certain people who make the decisions, the casting director is also lobbying for people that he or she is saying, oh, that's really good. I really liked that. So that's why it's also so important that care is taken when you present something because an audition is not just an audition. And audition is like, is a little one act play. It's a 30-second or it's a 15-second one act play with the beginning, middle, and end. And to treat it any less than that is doing yourself a disservice. Anne: So let me ask you a question. So when you get casting specs, are you following the casting specs? Because I've heard both sides of the coin here, follow the casting specs, or really just bring yourself to the party and bring your own uniqueness. So what's your plan?What is your strategy when you get an audition? Pilar: That's such a loaded question, and I've heard it answered in so many different ways. I do look at the specs. I know people who say, don't look at the specs until the end. Don't pay attention. Other people say, follow the specs. You have to read whatever the casting director is sending you via the agent because they're sending it specifically so you take stock. And I know one specific casting director who's like people, read the spec, I'm tailor making it so guys don't miss any little detail of what the client wants. This person said it. They were like, I'm giving you all these breadcrumbs, go ahead and use them. That said, it's not like you're chained to do it exactly. Anne: Right. Pilar: Because they're looking for your interpretation of it. Anne: Yeah, your unique spin. Pilar: I mean, at the beginning, and I know so many people listening on this podcast have I'm sure gotten Sigourney Weaver, sound like Emma Stone. Anne: Yup. Yup. Pilar: Scarlett Johansson. I mean every, you know, all day long, you get all these sound like, and what they're looking for is not an -- I used to, I used to fall into the trap, as I'm sure many people have when I first started seeing those names, as I would run and look at her and try to almost copy their voices. Anne: Right. Pilar: And that's not what they're looking for. They're looking for an attitude. Anne: Yeah, or an emotion. Pilar: What's your point of view? Yeah. But what's your point of view? Who are you talking to? Because if I'm looking at somebody, and we're back in the bakery on La Brea, and I'm looking at the sales person and I'm saying, can I get some bread? And 'cause I'm just having a good day and or maybe I haven't had anything and I'm like, can I get some bread, because I have to go take a pill with my -- and I have to get bread. So, and so it's like -- Anne: Or the pill's stuck in your throat and you need the bread to push it down. Pilar: Can I get some bread? Anne: That happens to me all the -- I need, I need a cracker or I need a bread -- need a piece of bread. Pilar: Right, exactly. So it's all in how you, what is your attitude? Who are you speaking to?What's your point of view while you're saying this piece of copy? Anne: It's so, so important. And it's funny because you and I may experience completely different genres during our days. Right? I do a lot of corporate. I do a lot of e-learning. I do a lot of telephony, but yet I also am always thinking about who I am, who I'm talking to, and putting myself in a scene because that emotion or that nuanced emotion is everything. It is everything. It is what takes a voice actor from simply reading the words to being immersed and making a believable and authentic. And I can't express enough people just say, they just read it and they read it in a melody that they think it should sound like, right? Oh, I've heard it on television like this, or, oh, I've, I've heard it in a video like this, but I'm like, no, you are not the person that's going to mimic any of that. And as a matter of fact, if you get the job, like I'm trying to train you what it takes to get the job. Right? And then when you get the job, then you can be directed as to however the client wants it. But I think you have to prove your acting first. And that I think it comes down to really, I think, the emotion and the point of view that you're talking about, which is everything. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. I would hazard that to say that long-form, something like e-learning, it's almost more important. Anne: Oh my God. Yes. Absolutely. Pilar: Because you have to think about, who's listening to this on the other end. So if I'm going to be doing this, you know, straight kind of a thing, then, you know, once upon a time there was a little... and then, and my range doesn't change or [singsong] my range is changing like this, and it's always like this, you're going to drive the person on the other end crazy. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So you are telling a story, no matter what genre -- Anne: No matter what you're doing. Pilar: Yeah. And you have to always tell a the story. Anne: You have to pull attention. Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: The longer it is, I think the harder it is. Pilar: I agree. Anne: And I think the more dry the material, the harder you have to be in that scene, you have to be that character so that you can hold their attention. I mean, there's so many other things vying for our attention. And that is absolutely. I think so, so important for us to understand that acting is, is everything. It really is, acting as everything in terms of, I believe being successful in your voiceover career. So let me ask you a question. What are the differences that you've experienced in, let's say, stage acting or on-camera acting and voice acting. What are the major differences that you have to account for? Pilar: Okay. Stage acting. Well, first of all, you're projecting because you have to reach the last person, the last seat in the theater. Anne: Yeah, and we don't have to do that in our studios. Pilar: No, you don't have to do that. Film acting is very close. It's very concentrated. Anne: Well, plus you have somebody to kind of, if you're in a scene with somebody, right, you have somebody else to play off of. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: And that's a big -- Pilar: Not always, not always -- Anne: No? Okay. Pilar: -- but at least you -- yeah, well, because a lot of the times, if you're, if you're doing, if they're doing a closeup of you, sometimes the other actor will, will be there, but sometimes they won't be. And it'll just be a stand-in. So a lot of the times you have to use your imagination. Voiceover though, you generally never have anybody to bounce off of. Anne: Right. That's where your imagination takes, right? Pilar: That's why you have to use imagination. Anne: Yeah, you have to have a lot of it because you have no, you have no audience. Pilar: And also I think something that's so important that people don't realize that I discovered actually many, many years ago when I was working, when I first started working in television, I remember a cameraman, because you know, they work long, long hours. And he once said to me, he said, everything that comes through there, we can see what you're doing because the camera never lies. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: He said it in such a way. And I was -- Anne: That makes so much sense. Pilar: And it was just so interesting to me because I thought, wow, they've always got, you know, their eyes trained on you when the cameras aren't rolling, 'cause they're setting up the shot. So there is a truth that you have to present. Otherwise, if you are quote, unquote acting, it's going to show because the camera picks up everything, and the microphone is the same thing. Anne: You know, it's funny because if you do the parallel thinking and whenever I watch television or a movie right away, I immediately say, oh my God, I don't believe that. I don't believe that character. And it's rare that I see it because most of the time, if it's released for television or movies, you've got a credible actor behind it. But if you ever have that experience where you're not believing the character, it is so obvious. And yet I don't think people think about that when they're doing voiceover, right? They think it just has to sound a particular way, and that will make it believable. But in reality, if somebody is listening on the other end, right, and they have a keen sense of believability, I think people always know. They may not be able to put their finger on it as to why it's not believable, but they will be able to tell that it's not believable. And it sounds just like, hey, it's an announcer. You know, that kind of thing. But I think in reality, we all have to strive for that believability factor first because when you can get there, regardless of the copy -- I mean not every piece of copy is Pulitzer prize, winning material, right? I mean, that's where our jobs come in to make it a story, make it our story and to bring that story to the table and make it believable. And if we can't, it's, it's obvious to the ear. Maybe not our own ears, but it's obvious to the person listening that has a vested interest. And if you cannot engage with that listener, then they don't have to engage with you. Right? They don't have to listen to you. Pilar: Exactly. Or if it's a casting director or -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: -- they're listening to your there'll be just, okay, next. Anne: Exactly. Next. Pilar: We're done. You know, what I've heard over the past two years now, every single casting director says, we listen to every audition. What they don't say is how long they listened to it. So I've been told that literally six seconds in, sometimes it's less. If they don't hear the truth, they just go onto the next audition. They do not listen to the whole thing. Anne: And you know what, that makes me even more resolute in the fact that your very first words out of your mouth for that audition or for whatever it is, you have to already have been in the scene. And it has to have been a reaction to something. Pilar: You're responding. Anne: Yeah. You're responding. And that melody, if you want to break it down into melodies, if you're musical, is completely different than simply starting a word, like welcome, you know, I mean, that's like, oh, that was just, I read the word welcome, but it would sound completely different if I was actually welcoming you at the door. And it would sound completely different. Pilar: Or you could be welcoming into an airplane. Anne: Exactly, exactly. Pilar: Or welcoming into a car or welcoming into a school. It's going to be completely different because we are -- Anne: Wherever you are. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. Anne: I think that's every time for my genre is, you know, when it's welcome or introducing or any of those words, right, it's hard to make them sound authentic, believable. Right? We don't always, we're not always saying welcome, you know, in our everyday life, but you've got to make it sound like it's a greeting, and that you are genuinely happy to see that person. So that becomes a challenge for people. So you've got to step into that scene and figure out what is that scene before you even start talking? I think that's, that's so important. Pilar: And I think it's also important, probably one of the most important things is to have a lead-in which you're not going to put on the audition necessarily, unless they're asking for improv, but that you're having a conversation. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: You're having a conversation before you start speaking. Anne: Yep. That helps for sure. Pilar: It's like, when you're going, when you're rolling into the scene, it's not like you just kind of get up and start. You're already in there. You're already talking about it. And then you can just flow right into the words. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: It's so much harder when you're like, oh, okay, you see the line going. And it's like, okay, now we have to start talking. That's not real. Anne: This is the beginning. Pilar: Right? Exactly. Anne: It's like, no. Pilar: So if you say, if you say, oh, I'm here, I'm in front of a whole bunch of people and they're really, really excited. And this is going to be a really great day. And the sun is shining -- Anne: Welcome. This is just the beginning. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. Yeah. Welcome. Wow. Good stuff, Pilar. I could talk acting all day. We can talk acting all day. I think that was -- thanks so much for those nuggets of wisdom. I absolutely think our BOSSes are going to appreciate those. You guys, I am going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL that allows us to connect like BOSSes. You guys can find out more at ipdtl.com. Pilar, It's been amazing as usual. And I thank you for being with us. Pilar: Glad to be here again. Anne: Yeah. You guys, have a great weekend. We'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Training your ear takes practice - in any language! Anne and Pilar discuss what it's like to approach bilingual voice over in today's VO industry, from understanding culture and dialects to managing translation and delivery styles. Adaptation and observation are key to success as a bilingual talent, and it's important to keep a finely-tuned ear open to understanding language rather than just speaking it. Tune in to hear tips and information from a veteran performer… More at: https://www.voboss.com/bilingual-vo-101 Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm honored today to bring back very special guest co-host to Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you today? Pilar: Hola, Anne. Cómo estás?   Anne: See, I need to start learning from you. Hola. Hola. So I am so excited to have you on this podcast because first of all, your journey is amazing, and our journeys are always ever evolving, right? And -- Pilar: Yes, oh yes. Oh, absolutely. Constantly. Anne: There's so much that our podcast listeners can learn from you. So I'm, I'm excited to continue that conversation. And I want to talk today about bilingual, what it means to be a bilingual voiceover actor in today's industry. And, you know, back in the day, I grew up in a very small town, and I was never really exposed to anyone that spoke a different language. And my exposure to let's say another language was my high school that said you can take French or Spanish, you know, for as many semesters as you'd like. And so I picked French, which I now think maybe I should have picked Spanish because I feel like that would be really useful to me today. But yeah, I was not exposed -- and it's one thing to be exposed to the language, but I was not really exposed to the culture. And I think it's so important for us to talk about that because as business owners, we serve many different communities. And it's so important for us to understand the community that we are serving and to be able to speak to them in the way that they're accustomed to and be able to serve their needs the best that we can. Pilar: Yes, this is very true, Anne. You know, I was born in New York, and both my parents were from Colombia. So that was all I knew because I spoke Spanish at home until I went to school in New York, and then I spoke English. And then when we, when we got home, we would speak only Spanish. And so every Sunday, my mother would make a traditional meal called ajiaco, which is this wonderful soup with chicken and corn and sour cream and chives, and it's like, it's so delicious. And we would listen to Colombian music. And so I grew up steeped in the culture. So it was like, there was stuff at home -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- what we did at home. And then there was school. Anne: School. Pilar: And -- Anne: Where did you learn English then. Pilar: I learned English in kindergarten. Anne: Got it. Pilar: Well, I guess it started in nursery school 'cause I went to this playgroup where there were kids from all over. And then in kindergarten, I went to Convent of the Sacred Heart. And I think there was one other person who spoke Spanish. And of course, you know, when you're a kid, you catch on really quickly. So there was like maybe one or two people, one school friend, she spoke German, somebody else spoke Spanish, but that was also the custom of the day, which is that you learned that -- French was what was offered. I don't remember, at least at Sacred Heart, I don't remember Spanish being offered. When I switched schools, when I went to Spence across the street, they did have Spanish, but I mean, I already knew it. Anne: Right. Pilar: And so in New York, at least there was really no Spanish culture per se. You know, every so often of course I would hear Spanish being spoken, but it was in pockets. And so it was my home life, and then there was school life, and it was almost like never the twain shall meet. And so I, I grew up with a very Hispanic background because my parents wanted to give that to us, but I didn't see it reflected outside. That wasn't really until much later that actually it's, you know, you started seeing it, at least, you know, where I grew up. And so of course, my family, we would have -- lots of friends would come over, and they would speak Spanish. And so that was very fluid. But for example, I know friends who, whose parents were, they were not interested in teaching their, their children Spanish. So they have a very Latin sounding name and they don't understand Spanish. Thank God that my mother wouldn't let us speak English when we got home, because my career is basically been bilingual my entire life. Anne: So then, if I can ask, 'cause I've, I've looked this up multiple times, and I'm seeing some kind of different answers in different places. So then should I refer to the community as Hispanic or Latino or what is the difference there, if you wouldn't mind? I've got multiple places that kind of say they're the same, but yet they're different or they're mutually exclusive. Pilar: So it's, it's really strange. And I think us Hispanics, we don't even know. The word Hispanic -- I mean, when I was growing up, you were a Latina. A Latina was just, you were a Latina, which means you were from Latin America. Anne: Right, it referred to a place. Yes. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. So then Hispanic came along. If I go and I look at the term in Wikipedia, it says the term Hispanic refers to people, cultures, or countries related to Spain, the Spanish language, or hispanidad. So it embraces, because obviously we can't forget about Spain. Anne: Right. Pilar: So it embraces Spain obviously -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- and the Americas where Spanish is spoken. And so Latinx is something that has not been around for that long. And it has to do -- see, for me what I understand it, 'cause I was like, what is this Latinx? 'Cause I was -- I would always hear of it for people who were gender neutral. Anne: That's what I -- Pilar: Who were gender fluid. But that doesn't mean that everybody who is a Latina is a Latinx. Anne: Correct. Pilar: So that's where it gets tricky and where people kind of sit there and they go, well, how do I refer to myself as? And so, you know, I'm an American because I was born in this country. Anne: Right. Pilar: And I speak Spanish. Anne: Right. Pilar: So for me, I would say I'm Hispanic because that's basically just the way that I referred to myself my entire life. The Latinx thing is something that's sort of come about in the last five, six, seven years, I think, which is fine. But for me, ultimately, I'm a Latina. Yo soy latina -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- and that's kind of -- you know, for Americans, I'm Hispanic, but I'm a Latina because that's how I grew up, una latina. Anne: And it's Latina, because you're female, is that correct? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And then Latino, is that -- Pilar: Yes. But then sometimes -- I know it's so bizarre -- Anne: And Latinx might be inclusive of non-binary or -- Pilar: Exactly. Non-binary. Anne: Got it. Pilar: That's exactly what it is, but because the Latino -- and because we have that differential in Spanish, because a Latino can also be male or female because I've had -- los latinos is like -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- that's like everybody. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: You know, like, that's like so -- people just go overboard with trying to define the labels, you know? Anne: I guess, I guess it's just safe to assume that it's a personal matter, how you'd like to be referred to, right, for each person -- Pilar: Agreed. Anne: -- then. Okay. Pilar: Agreed. Anne: All right. Pilar: And I think it's kind of like everything goes. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I mean, it's not -- well, at least for me, you know. I can't speak for everyone. Anne: Well, it's good to know because I, you know, I had questions I'm like, well, I'm not quite sure because again, when I grew up, I really was not exposed to really many people that had different cultures. I remember when I moved from my small town in upstate New York to New Jersey, I met so many people with so many different cultures, and I was like, this could have been good for me back in when I was growing up. But anyway, so now the question is, you speak Spanish, but there's so many different dialects, right? Pilar: Yes. Anne: And there's so -- many people need different dialects depending on again, what group you're speaking to. And I say group meaning buyer. If you're doing a voiceover and somebody hires you for that, they usually request a specific dialect of Spanish. So what are the different dialects and what, what are the differences between them? Pilar: Okay. So if you're talking, if, you know, if we start with Spain, which is [?], the Spaniards have a very, very different way of speaking. And so it's really interesting because Spaniards are some of the most lovely people, but the way they speak, it's almost like they're shouting at you. So [speaking Spanish] and so everything is just all, everything is always screaming. And that, I just said a bad word, by the way. Anne: Oh. Pilar: But you didn't understand, which is good. Anne: See? Pilar: So yeah, but it's, it's very, very guttural and it's, it's hard to explain. It is very, it's very tough sounding. So that's Span -- that's the Spaniards. Anne: Okay. So does that mean if somebody hires you to do some international work, and you needed to speak Spanish that was directed at people in Spain, would you speak in that delivery? Pilar: Probably, because I actually have been called to do that. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And also of course, and this is, again, nobody really knows because this is just conjecture, but the Spaniards, they have, they have a lisp. So supposedly, and some peoples, historians debate on this, but I want to say it was Phillip II or Ferdinand, I can't remember, but one of the kings had a lisp. So to cover, all the courtiers started lisping to cover his lisp. So instead of saying cerca, I'm near, estoy "therca," estoy therca. And then like canción, a Latin American would say, I'm singing a song, estoy cantando una canción, in Spain you would say estoy cantando una "canthión." It's the th instead of ss -- Anne: Right, right. Pilar: -- just for that particular C. It's not all the time. Anne: So there's Spanish from, people from Spain. Pilar: Spanish, Spain, right. Then they call this neutral. So neutral has a variety of connotations because neutral Spanish is actually, and this is something that I heard many years ago, when they say neutral Spanish, they actually want you to sound more Mexican. Because actually in terms of buyers, the largest minority of Latins is the Mexican -- Anne: Mexican. That makes sense. Pilar: So I want to say it's 89 million, but that might be an old figure. And so the Mexicans have a very distinct accent, if you go to different regions of Mexico. The reason why they ask for it is that it's a flatter way of speaking because when you start hearing different regionalisms, there's a lot of lilting. There's a lot of (singsong) and there's a lot more accents. The Mexican is pretty close in terms of being the flat, which is why they ask for it. Anne: They call that the -- Pilar: They call it -- Anne: Neutral? Pilar: Neutral Spanish, yes. Anne: Neutral Spanish. Pilar: But that's kind of code for -- it's, it's kind of more tilting towards the Mexican. Anne: Right. Because of the larger population, I'm assuming. Pilar: Yes. Anne: That's what -- Pilar: Yeah. And it's the consumer, right? Exactly. But here's the funny part. And again, the VO BOSS listeners might disagree, but the accent in Colombia, the way Colombians speak, is probably some of the best Spanish in all of Latin America. It just happens to be that way. I'm not speaking out of line. Anne: Well listen, I will tell you, I have to tell you this because when I worked in education, my boss for a good 18 years, he was from Colombia. So when he would get angry, and he would kind of go off into a different language -- Pilar: Yeah. Anne: -- it was very interesting. It was, I don't know it was lovely actually, but again, I never knew what he was saying. He was probably saying bad words, if he was angry at me or, or whatever. But it's interesting because he had an accent for 18 years, and he was, gosh, he was one of my, one of the best bosses I'd ever had. I mean, it was like half of my life that I worked for him. So I got to know him from his accent in English, but didn't ever really hear him speaking Spanish too much, except for once in a while, when he would talk to maybe his wife that would call or whatever, if I overheard him on the phone. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Or if he got angry. Pilar: Yeah. But so Colombian Spanish is grammatically, it's probably the closest to Spanish from Spain. Anne: Okay. But then I imagine there's different regions in Colombia. Right? Pilar: Totally. Anne: Okay. And then you'd have like a different dialect for each. Pilar: Right, because you've got like, for example, the coast, um, [speaking Spanish] it's kind of like Southern, it's like the equivalent of Southern, it's and it's very, uh, it's, it's a great like people from Baidupar (?), [speaking Spanish] and then you've got Baices (?), [speaking Spanish]. There's a beautiful accent from Medellín. And then the region from Bogotá. There's all kinds. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Where my family was from, Ibagué, it's just, it's a very funny kind of accent. They're all very different. And so that is important because a lot of the times when you are auditioning for something, they're going to ask you, because I get asked all the time. So you've got, like, let's say you've got Colombia, you've got Venezuela, and Venezuela, their accent is different, but it's more in line with the, because like for example, Caracas is on the coast. And so there, that accent is a coastal accent, and it's very close to the coastal Colombian accent from like a Baidupar, from the coast of Colombia, which is closer, not the same thing, but it's closer to like central America. So central America, you get into Dominican, which is very different. They speak at like 30,000 miles a minute. I mean, it is so crazy. You can't understand them. Anne: So then, may I ask, when you get an audition, right, are they specifying the dialect or? Pilar: Yes, yes -- Anne: Okay -- Pilar: -- now they are, now they are. Anne: -- all the time now there, because before this, I mean, bilingual has always been a thing, but I think lately it just was assumed that Spanish was maybe one or two different dialects. And, and I know for a fact, when I do a lot of telephony work, they would specifically request certain dialects of Spanish that they would want on the prompts. And so I think probably even now, right? So if you are not familiar with a specific dialect, do you go and study that before you audition? Or how does it, how does that work? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I actually have a coach who is -- Anne: Oh, okay. Pilar: -- she's great. She has, she knows all kinds of, I mean, dialects from all over the world. So and so I'll, um, I have some, some things that I, that I recorded with her. And so I'll just, I'll go to my notes there because even something proximity wise -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- Cuba and Puerto Rico, there's a very big difference with the accents. And I've been asked to do a Puerto Rican accent, and I've been asked to a Cuban accent. Those are the two that I get called to, sometimes Mexican. But a lot of the times what they're looking for, what I'll do, for example, when I'm doing an audition, and they're looking, they're asking to do the neutral Spanish, is that I will tone down. I will be very aware when I'm speaking of my Spanish, because I do have some regionalisms in my Spanish, and people who know, who have an ear and speak Spanish, native speakers -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- they will hear it immediately, so I can disguise it. It's practice. That's basically, it's like, if you want to put on a Southern accent, a Southern accent from Alabama is very different -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- from a Southern accent from Virginia. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So it's just a matter of being aware of what they are, and it starts in the mouth. So it's, it's great to get together with a coach. And for example, when, when they ask you for a British accent, and they're asking for an upper-class British accent, versus they're asking for a Scottish accent, 'cause a lot -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- you know, I get, I get those kinds of things for like video games. You just have to be aware, you practice, you get online. I actually did a, um, an ADR for a movie that came out, and I didn't know the language. So I got hired and he said, you speak Spanish. And I had worked with this looping director before and I said, yeah. And he said, okay, this is, this is a little different, you're going to have to practice. And I thought, okay, great, wonderful. So I start practicing, and it's this thing called Nahuatl, which is from a region in Mexico. And it's not really something -- it's a language, but it's not something that is spoken often at all. Anne: Right. Pilar: And this was for a big Marvel movie. So I started going online. There's very few videos, but I get ahold of them. I find somebody who speaks Nahuatl. And I speak to her and I realized this language has nothing to do with Spanish. And I'm like, uh-oh. So I literally phonetically had to learn phrases. And, and we had that all prepared because the looping director gave us time, but it was like, oh wow. This is a completely different language. This is not Spanish at all, but it is spoken in -- Anne: Spanish. Pilar: -- Mexico. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Wow. Pilar: So yeah, it's limitless amounts of variations. And if you're a native speaker of Spanish, you have to be very aware that you're not dealing with just one -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- the way your voice sounds. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: You have to be able to adapt. Anne: Right. And not only just in the sound of it, right, or the accent of it, but I would say performance wise as well, right? There's styles in which people speak their language. Pilar: Yes. One of the things that I get called to do is to do a spot, and I have to do it in English and Spanish. And so first of all, Spanish is always longer. It always takes double the amount of time because we talk a lot. So double the amount of time what I say in English in Spanish. Anne: Oh, right, because you talk a lot, meaning the words to translate are twice as many. Pilar: Totally. Yeah. Anne: Okay. And you call it the bilingual two-step, I saw on your website or somewhere I saw that. Pilar: Yeah. Because it really, it takes literally double the amount of time to say it in Spanish as it does in English. And so Spanish is a beautiful language, and it's very descriptive. Anne: So I don't mean to interrupt -- Pilar: Go for it. Anne: -- I'm just thinking like, what if somebody that's not familiar, right, says, okay, I've got a 15-second or 30-second spot in English and oh, by the way, can you do it in Spanish? I assume that presents issues because you might have to do it much faster or you might have to maybe make some different changes and because you can't fit all the words in, is that correct, or? Pilar: Yes. So I'm much more -- I didn't use to be vocal, and I'm much more gently -- and obviously you have to do this in a democratic kind of a way, so you don't ruffle people's feathers. Anne: Right. Pilar: And they were aware of that. You know, copywriters are aware of all that today, which they didn't use to be, that they have to shorten it because otherwise you end up sounding like a chipmunk -- Anne: Right, right. Pilar: -- trying to get it out. And also the way a Latina like me expresses herself in Spanish is completely different from the way I'm going to say it in English. And it's the same copy. Anne: Now, how, performance-wise, if I might ask? Like, so you might say it in Spanish differently, would you be, I don't know, more excited or more dynamic or is -- what's typical? Pilar: I think it's in the way, the way the words are said, it's just different, because, because the actual sounds -- Anne: -- they go together differently. Pilar: Yeah. They go together differently. Okay. So here's something -- let me just see if I have it in English and Spanish. Okay. So this is -- I did something like this and it's, it's an Amtrak spot. "Did you think of the first person you're going to go visit?" Okay. That's in English. I'm just making that up. "¿Ya piensas de quien va ser la primera persona que vas a visitar?" So it's like two completely different people. Anne: It is. Pilar: And I don't know how to explain that, but -- Anne: It is. Pilar: -- it is. Anne: But that brings up a question, which I've always wondered about. So let's just say you have, you're doing a live directed session -- Pilar: Yeah. Anne: -- and the person that's directing you doesn't know Spanish. You have to know, right, you have to know the delivery. Pilar: Oh yeah. Anen: You have to know the nuance or does it happen that you don't always have, you know what I mean, a Spanish speaking, if you're doing Spanish and English or -- what's that like? Pilar: No, generally, actually, no, whenever I do live directed sessions, there's always somebody -- they may not speak it fluently, but they completely understand the language. Anne: Oh, okay. That's good to know. Pilar: You always have somebody there who knows. Anne: That's good to know. Pilar: But as a bilingual speaker, I feel like it's my job to make it easier for them. So I try to -- when they ask me and they're like trying to fish for a word, like, I don't like jump in, but I try to help them out, because it's difficult. Like I've done this my whole life. You know, I'm constantly in my head translating from English to Spanish -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- Spanish to English. Anne: Right. Pilar: And so sometimes people just don't have that facility. I just happen to do it all the time. Anne: Right. Pilar: So if I can help them with a word or something -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- I do. I'll step in, and I'll say it. Anne: Yeah. And that makes so much sense. I have really, honestly, I have such respect. I think everybody learn multiple languages. Really. I think it's such an education, not just culturally, but just, it's so many things you can get by being bilingual in your own personal development, really, so much you can learn. Pilar: You know, when it's a whole world. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I mean, when I, when I studied French, it really, really opened it up because I was seeing so many parallels between Spanish and French. And I was like, oh, okay. So now I get why this, these are Romance languages. And then, you know, one time my family, my mother and my, my father and I, uh, we were invited to a wedding in Italy. And it's a really good friend of mine who is getting -- married an Italian gentleman. And I thought, well, why don't I just, I'm going to learn Spanish on the sly. And so -- not, not Spanish, Italian. And back in the day, dating myself, we had Walkmans right? Anne: Yup. I had one of those. Pilar: So I got a bunch of cassettes. Exactly. And I listened to it all the time. And my father would look at me like I was crazy. 'Cause he was like, 'cause I didn't say what I was doing. I was just always with the Walkman on. And so when I stepped off the plane, I was speaking Italian, and we could get around because I was speaking Italian. I didn't speak it that well, but I understood it. Now Spanish is very different from Italian, but there are a lot of words -- Anne: They're similar. Pilar: -- that are the same, so -- Anne: -- if I -- yeah. Pilar: So yeah, so it was really cool to be able to kind of navigate in that world because I had help. Anne: And it's important. I say that because the many times that my husband and I've gone to Italy now, I don't speak Italian, but my husband grew up with his grandparents speaking Italian, and his mother and father, not all the time. It wasn't -- he wasn't required to speak Italian. They were born in America, but his grandparents. And so he had enough knowledge, but thankfully he had that knowledge. And when we stepped off the plane into Italy, I mean, you just, you gotta be able to get around. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And so I know very few words, few words, enough to like enough to get a gelato. But -- and to say please and thank you. Pilar: Exactly. And mi porte un po de panni? You can get a -- you can get, go very far. Can you bring me a little bit of bread? Anne: Yup. Pilar: Mi porte un po de panni? That'll get you anywhere in Italy, and there'll be grateful and they'll start flirting with you -- Anne: Yup. Pilar: -- and they'll offer you wine. And, you know, whatever. I'm always in such awe of voiceover artists whose Spanish, who, you know, it was not their first language, but they learned it, and they speak it really well. You know, they may not be native speakers -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- because obviously fluent and native, they're two different things. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: But a lot of the times I will hear a really good Spanish accent, you know, over the, if, you know, if I'm in a train station or whatever, and you can tell the person is not native, but their pronunciation is flawless. So there's obviously a market for that. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And that comes through practice. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You have to practice, you know, and how do you practice? You, you read out loud, you -- and, and I do that. I mean, I'm, I'm a native speaker and I do that on a pretty regular basis. I'm reading a book in Spanish on my Kindle. And so I will read it. I will read entire passages out loud because I need to hear myself -- Anne: It's like a muscle. Pilar: -- and go -- yeah, exactly. Anne: Right? It's a muscle. Pilar: You need to practice it. Anne: If you're not going to be speaking -- I remember my husband's father when he used to talk to the family in Sicily. And by the way, Sicilian is different from Italian and different regions -- Pilar: Totally. Anne: -- there as well. I mean, his father knew enough, but also was very, it was very stressful for him to talk to the family because they would just be talking a mile a minute. And he was trying to get that back into his muscle memory and also speak it. He used to come off the phone. I mean, he'd be sweating. You know? So I can imagine, I can imagine what it's like being bilingual like, first of all, hats off and mad respect to anybody, you know, that speaks another language and can do it in fluently and -- because there's, there's work involved in that, that is a muscle memory and practice and all sorts of things. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And I was thinking that it affords you some other opportunities in your voiceover business, such as -- I imagine you do a lot of dubbing. Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: I imagine people ask you to do translation or proofreading services. So there's some other things that you can add as a service to your business as well by being bilingual. Pilar: Well, and also, yes, I agree with -- Anne: If you choose. Pilar: -- everything you just said. Anne: If you choose to want to do, you know, translation -- Pilar: Yeah. Anne: -- or proofreading or those things. Pilar: But even, even just knowing, maybe not being completely fluent, but even knowing a good amount of words and practicing those words -- because here's what I'm starting to see in a lot of copy is English copy but like a couple of Spanish speaking words -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- will sort of sift in there. And so if you can say it -- because a lot of the times I'm called and I can't completely make it in Spanish because people will be like, huh? What is she saying? Anne: Right. Pilar: But I can, I can add -- there's some spots I used to do. So instead of saying "this time on Colores" -- so I would never say Colores in regular. Anne: Right. Pilar: But it's not CoLORes. Anne: Right, right. Right. You have to have the accent. Yeah. Pilar: It's somewhere in between. So it's helpful to have an understanding of the sounds that another language makes, because I'll tell you, it's helped me. I can do German. I can -- I don't speak German. I can do Portuguese because it's basically about developing the ear. You know, a lot of times I'll hear a voice actor or somebody say, oh no, I can't speak. It's like, do you have a pair of ears? Anne: It's all about the -- Pilar: If you have a pair of ears, you just, you, you, you train yourself. Again, it's like what you said before. It's like a muscle. Train and develop that. Anne: And you know what, it's so interesting that you say that. I mean really, training your ear is, a lot of it, even just being conversational and, and understanding what a lot of people don't understand, what a conversational melody sounds like, because they've never really studied it. Right? Because all of a sudden -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- now, we're being asked to speak these words that didn't come from us and sound conversational. Well, there actually is a melody to being conversational and there's a melody to all of it. And so the process of training your ear is not something that happens overnight. That's for darn sure. You know, I just know that from the many students that when we go through our, you know, how are we speaking conversational or how do we get there? It takes a long time to develop the ear, but it's definitely something that can be learned, but it does take a lot of practice. A lot of practice. Pilar: It takes a lot of practice, but if you do it just five minutes a day -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- and you, and you take a little piece of a newspaper in Spanish -- so just when I first got to Colombia, I had a little bit of an accent in Spanish. And my director was very strict, and he said, okay, you got to go get rid of that. And it was the slightest thing. It was like in the S's. And, and I, I was aware of it, but I was like, I don't know how to get rid of it. So I worked with somebody, but what I really did was I watched telenovelas all day long. And sometimes I would just, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even look at the television. I would just listen -- Anne: Right, just listen. Pilar: And I would repeat over and over again. That's how I learned Italian by myself. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so everything is possible -- Anne: Immersed yourself in the sounds and melody of it. Pilar: Yeah. Exactly. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It's just having it around you, and you don't need to spend that much time on it, but you can -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- if you do it on a daily basis, you are going to improve. Anne: I think it has to be consistent. Wow. There's so many other things I want to talk to you about being a bilingual voice talent. And I think we're going to be continuing that in our next episode, but this was a great beginning to talking about, I guess, the depth of what it takes to be a bilingual voice actor. So I thank you, Pilar. I'm going to say my last question to you is going to be okay, so now you know what our new series name is, right? Okay, so it's BOSS -- Pilar: You want to unveil it? Anne: Well, it's BOSS, and it's voices in Spanish. So how would I say that? Pilar: You would say BOSS Voces. Anne: BOSS Voces. Pilar: Or if you're from Spain, you would say BOSS Vothes. Anne: Oh. Pilar: La voth. Por qué -- Anne: La voth. Pilar: -- muy linda, Anne. Entonces, yo te puedo hablar todo el día, si quieres. Anne: Oh. Pilar: I just went overboard in Spanish. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I said you had a lovely voice -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- but for Latin Americans -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: - it's BOSS, BOSS Voces. Anne: BOSS Voces. Pilar: Voces. Anne: Voces, voces. Pilar: So with Spanish, you pronounce all the vowels. So it's ah, eh, ee, oh, oo, right? It's not A E I O U. Anne: Right. Pilar: So it's BOSS -- So you would say, maybe you would -- Anne: BOSS -- Pilar: -- you could give it a little, kind of a, a little sexy lilt. go BOSS Voces. Anne: BOSS Voces. BOSS Voces. Pilar: There we go. You got it. Anne: There we go. Well, now you guys know our new series' name. Thank you so much from my first, my first lesson from you. As always, it has been amazing to spend this time with you. BOSSes, we want you to have an amazing week. If you want to connect and network with amazing people like Pilar, you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Fue un placer, Anne. Nos vemos. Ciao. Anne: Ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. 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Ok, Bosses. We're picking up right where we left off…in Miami! Anne & Pilar continue discussing Pilar's Journey in Part 2 of the Boss Voces Premiere. Pilar begins in Miami with no TV gigs and begins her radio + voice dubbing career. More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-2 Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm honored to bring back special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality born and raised in New York City. She broke into show business and had roles with "Ugly Betty," "Poor Pablo," "Eternally Manuela," and "El Cartel" filmed in Colombia and Miami. And in our last episode, we talked about her story, and we ended up from Colombia, now she's arrived in Miami, so we're going to continue the story today. And before that, I want to say that she also has booth a booth kitty, and outside of my booth right now, Pilar, is my cute little Sabrina cat who is jealous because the door is closed, and I know she wants to come in, so. She's -- she wants to come in and talk to you as well. Pilar: I love it. I love it. Anne: Pilar, it's so great to have you back. Pilar: I am so glad to be here. Thank you, Anne. Anne: And what an amazing story, like I said, triple, quadruple threat, TV, radio, voiceover, singer. I mean, you have done it all. And what an interesting, wonderful story you had telling us last episode about your theater experience, your television experience, and your success story in Colombia. And you decided to come back to the States and decided to move to Miami. Pilar: Yes. Anne: So let's pick up from your arrival in Miami and your career once you got there. Pilar: So I get to Miami, and I am staying with my cousins who live in Key Biscayne. I'm thinking I'm all that, you know? I'm this telenovela star. I'm -- where do I sign? Luckily I got, I got an agent really quickly because a friend of mine introduced me to this friend who was a casting director. And the casting director met with me and said, hey, you know, there's this agent. And so I get this agent really quickly and, and she starts sending me out. Anne: So yeah, this is an agent, not a voiceover agent, but you had just started when -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- you were, at the tail end, I think when you were at Colombia, you said you started doing some voiceover for an animated series. So this agent is on camera -- Pilar: Yeah, this is, this is -- Anne: -- casting agent? Pilar: Yeah, my whole up until now, my whole concentration was acting. It wasn't -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- voice acting because that's how I had made my bread and butter for the previous nine years. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so the, the voice acting that I did in Colombia and, you know, the fascination I had with radio, it was just kind of like a, a fun thing. You know? It was just kind of like a fun thing, but I didn't look at it as anything kind of anything serious. So I get this on-camera agent, and I start auditioning and she sends me out on audition and auditions and auditions and I get nothing. And I'm like, oh dear. Okay. Anne: Interesting. You talked before about how you had set visions, right? Pilar: Yep. Anne: And you meditated? Pilar: Yep. Anne: Did you go back to that once you were in Miami? Pilar: No. Anne: Interesting. Pilar: I did not. I did not. Not at the beginning. Okay? The one thing that is probably been a constant my entire life is the importance of training. So even while I was on television every night, I was taking acting classes, and I did them periodically and I worked with some great people in Colombia. And so then I realized, ooh, I'm not booking. I had better get on the horn, and I had better start going back. And so I started taking auditioning classes because I just, I had really stopped auditioning, you know. I'd, I would audition for a role and I would get it, you know? It was just kinda like -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- kind of thing. Anne: I was gonna ask you, if you note, what were differences, right, when you were in Colombia versus Florida, what differences in the auditioning process or differences in, I dunno, anything in terms of getting roles? What was different that you noticed? Pilar: Well, for one thing, the community is, was much larger. So there was a lot more competition. Anne: Got it. Pilar: Which means that people were way more polished in their auditions. It was very, very much more competitive. So I realized because I was out of practice. Auditioning was not something that I was doing on a, on a regular basis. When I was living in New York, the -- I did that on a regular basis. And you know, one of the things that I learned in, in Miami from a very close friend of mine, he said, auditioning is the job. Acting is what you get to do once in a while. Auditioning is the job, acting as the hobby. Anne: Yeah. Similar to voice acting. Right? Pilar: Exactly. So I started, I started doing that, and, uh, I started getting better at auditioning. And I started actually booking theater roles. So I became pretty, pretty regular in booking theater gigs, which I loved because I got to, you know, I, I got to go back to, you know, when I used to do it a lot more after college and stuff, but still, you know, that didn't really pay the bills. One thing that I would notice was that the theater actors, they would talk about how they were going to the studios, dubbing studios, or they were coming to where they grew up going from. And I was like kind of curious, you know, what's, what's this whole dubbing thing about? And so a friend of mine said, well, you know, why don't you go to this studio? And so I, I called somebody up and it was a friend of a friend. And so I went and I auditioned, and that's the very first time I saw like a studio with different booths. And, and I thought, oh, this is really interesting. And so I was dubbing from another language, and they were all in Spanish. They were doing all these dubbing, these, these telenovellas from Spanish into English. And so -- Anne: Did you have any training in it previously or was it just something that you kind of picked up? Pilar: Zero, yet again, just like when I went down to Colombia, I had very little training and in TV, and then I, I had no training in, in doing this. Anne: But then you had all experience in television and being in television -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- so that I'm sure helped you in your dubbing experience because you already knew what it was like to be the actor, right, on camera. Pilar: Right. Anne: And now you could absolutely, probably just parallel that with dubbing. Pilar: Exactly. So the acting part of it was the important part of it. Anne: Yeah. Yup, exactly. Pilar: But there's the technical side of it, which is you have to match lips and as they say out here, lip flaps, so you have to figure that part out. So I auditioned a lot. Didn't get very far and I continued. I continued to do my theater and I did a little bit of commercials. Anne: Now, at this time, was it all in Spanish or was it both? Pilar: No, it was all dubbing from Spanish into English. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Yeah. It was 100% or from -- but I was just auditioning, you know. So I auditioned, I would say I auditioned quite a few times, and then I actually got a gig. Anne: Meaning, well, I guess my question would be like, were you auditioning for roles in Spanish or both Spanish and English at the time auditioning? Pilar: So here's the thing, my experience up until this moment was only with dubbing. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I had no other access to like, what is now, you know, doing commercial voiceover or medical narration or e-learning, I didn't know any part of that business. Anne: I'm thinking even on camera, were you, when you were auditioning on camera, were you auditioning for roles that were Spanish -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- or for Spanish and English both? Pilar: Both. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I was doing both. I was, yeah. So my life has always been about doing -- Anne: Both. Pilar: -- doing both. Yeah. Anne: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to call that out is because for a person -- I am not bilingual. Right? For me, there's only just English. So I want to make sure that I hear when you are talking bilingual, like you have like almost, is it more opportunity or is it more work for more opportunity? And what are the things that you need to be considerate of when you are auditioning for both Spanish and English or are there differences?So it's just something for me, it's a new perspective. Pilar: So I think that the most important thing, really, it all comes down to the acting, Anne. It's not really -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- about the language because it all starts from inside. So for me with the on-camera, and this is what I discovered when I was doing dubbing, is that whenever you're looking at, what's in front of you on the screen, if you're dubbing a, a woman who is -- or a character who is in pain or who is crying, you have to feel that pain, you have to feel that sadness. Because if you don't, it's not going to show up in your voice. Anne: Sure, sure, exactly. Pilar: It's not about manipulating the voice. It's about starting from the inside out, which is what a lot of people, when they're first starting out in the business, I hear this all the time -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- everywhere, on Clubhouse. Oh, I've got a really good voice. And how do I make my voice this? And it's like, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's not what it's about. It has to start -- that's why the acting -- Anne: From the inside. Pilar: -- matters. It has to start from the inside. Anne: Yeah. I, sorry, I didn't, I got off a little bit on a tangent there -- Pilar: No, no, no, no, no! Anne: But yeah. So yeah, continuing while you are auditioning like crazy in Florida. Pilar: So I'm auditioning like crazy for voiceover, but I'm still doing my, my theater. I was doing my commercials. I gave myself for the first time in my life, I, I went on this cruise. It was called, what was it called? Celebrate your life, a Louise Hay cruise. Very, very spiritual. And there were all these great speakers. Wayne Dyer was there. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: Gregg Braden was there. It was a, it was like the coolest thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I met somebody. It was like, Ooh, this is really cool. And then I came back, and I get this call for an audition. And there, this friend of mine, who's an actor. He's like, well, you know, they want you to audition in this dubbing studio for this role. And I get the role. And at the same time that I get the role, I have this major health challenge, and I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen? And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to do this. I'm just going to do this. And then the enormity of it hits me 'cause I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I don't know anything about voiceover. I don't know how to do this. It's like, I'm an actor. And so I was really lucky because I had this great engineer, Rafael. I'll never forget him. And he kind of guided me, and we would do it like on a weekly basis. 'Cause I was dubbing a show. I was dubbing a series and it was coincidentally, it was Colombian. So I just started dubbing an episode or two a week, and he would teach me. And he'd be like, okay, I need a little bit more from you, do this from you. A lot of it was just observing and listening and looking what was on the screen and doing what that character was doing on the screen and incorporating it into myself in English, through my voice. So, you know, I did that, I got better. Then I got a call from another studio and then a third studio. And I was like, oh, this is really cool. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Success begets success. Right? Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Now here's the thing about Miami. Miami is a right to work state. So the rates are not that great. Dubbing in itself is, is a, is not -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- a moneymaker. Let's put it that way. Anne: I was gonna say that. And especially now given the current situation, I know Netflix has just gone crazy, and there's lots of opportunities for dubbing these days. Pilar: Yes. But here's the thing, the good thing about the union, they signed an agreement. I think it was two years ago, with Netflix. So they have to have certain rates. Anne: Good. Excellent. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Well, I was just meaning I've -- I'm hearing so much about more opportunities these days since the pandemic, since there's just a lot of -- Netflix has been producing a lot more movies -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and the streaming stations. So I feel like there's more dubbing opportunities that I'm hearing about these days. Pilar: Yes. Not a ton. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: It's really great. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, so I started doing more and then I realize, oh, well this is interesting, but again, not much money. So I thought, well, let me, let me try. Somebody told me about an audiobook kind of a situation. I thought, oh, okay. This is interesting. Let me do, let me see what's going on with that. And so I get on ACX. I do my first book. The book is terrible. Okay? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tell you right now. Anne: This is why I don't do books. I'm just saying. Pilar: Oh my God, the book, I didn't want -- the book itself, the book itself wasn't terrible. My recording. I mean, I don't think, you know, people have bought the book, and I've done, you know, a bunch of books since then. But I just, I look back at that first book, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's really kind of frightening. But you know, I really got into it because it was a character driven. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Again, though, if you're not a technical person -- everybody talks about getting into audiobooks. The one thing I will say, and it's, it's gotten a lot better. The technology has gotten a lot better, but if you're not a super-duper wiz at editing -- Anne: Oh, it's a lot of work. Pilar: It's a lot of work is all I'm going to say. Anne: Any long format narration, but especially books. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Especially books. Anne: So much work. Pilar: It's a lot. It's a lot. So I don't -- Anne: And the money that you're making from it, I don't, for me, it just, it was like, gosh, it's so much work for not a lot of money. So -- Pilar: I totally agree. I totally agree. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I did a couple. I didn't do that many. I did a couple and then I was like, oh, this is just so much work. I started off, I had a booth in my kitchen, outside of my kitchen. It was in the living room and I, a friend of mine helped me, you know, construct it. It was really great. And then I discovered that every 10 minutes I had to stop because the stupid sound of the refrigerator would, would come into the recording. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Oh my gosh, you have no idea how terrible that was. So I moved it into the, a closet, which I actually had a really good, very, very narrow but long closet. So I, after a couple of iterations that became my studio, but I still wasn't making a lot of money. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to try, I'm going to send out feelers for like a nine to five job or a part-time job in radio. Anne: I was just gonna ask you that because there's so many people when they're trying to get into voiceover, and they want to go full time. And even when I started full-time, I had to have a part-time job so that I felt like I could contribute to paying the bills in terms of the household, for sure. So I was wondering through all those years, when you were like, kind of scraping by, did you have a second job doing something different like, I don't know, waitress, bartender, corporate? Pilar: I always had an administrative job going, like I was an administrative assistant -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- to a friend of mine and she was great, 'cause I could always go and come back. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: She was really understanding. Anne: You could do your auditions. Pilar: Yes. So, you know, sometimes I would work for her full-time. Sometimes I would work part-time. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So it was really great to be able to go back and forth in that. But yeah, I always had a second job, and then I realized, you know, what, if I could have a second job doing something like radio? So I went, I went down the list of all the radio stations in Miami -- again, and now I'm realizing it as, as we're having this conversation. I did actually, I marketed myself out to them. Anne: There you go. Did you manifest? Did you manifest your radio job? Pilar: This, I started, I started manifesting. Yes. I went back to that. Yes, ma'am. I started seeing myself in front of a, in front of a microphone. Absolutely. And I didn't get one bite. Okay? Indeed.com, I papered my resume. And I spent a year and a half looking for this, but I set an intention, I set an intention. I said, I'm going to get a radio job. And the very last place that I looked at was, and I was talking to my friend who I had been her administrative assistant. We became each other's accountability buddies. She said, well, um, why don't you call up WLRN? WLRN is the NPR satellite in Miami. And I had looked at their website, and it said that there was a three to five-year position. And I was like -- three to five years experience needed. And I thought, I don't have three to five years. And she said, just write them. Just say, you're willing to work for them. You know, just say, you know, and I was like, you know what? Why not? Anne: I'm eager to learn. Pilar: Exactly. That's what exactly -- I'm eager to learn. I'd sent out so many resumes, Anne, and to so many different -- all of the companies in Miami. So I'm talking to her, and this is, this is the great part. This is like the manifesting part because I really, really was manifesting this heavily. I send it out while I'm talking to my friend on the phone. I knew how to do this by heart by now. I'd composed a letter. I sent my resume. I sent a couple of samples. Not 20 minutes later, I get a call from the guy -- Anne: Wow. Pilar: -- saying, do you want to meet? And I was like, sure, I'd love to. So I went and I met with him a couple of times, and they started me off working for them. So this was a, it was a part-time job because they were affiliated with a school. And so they said, well, you know, you -- we'll, we'll get you on the air, and then you'll do some spots for us. I was like, okay, great. So before a month was out, I was on the air, and I was doing spots for them, underwriting spots. They don't call them commercials because it's, you know, it's, it's, you know -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- it's not-for-profit. Anne: So it wasn't a show? You just started doing spots for them. Pilar: I started doing spots for them, but then they put me on the air from 10 to 2. Anne: Okay. PIlar: And then, so what I would do was that on my breaks, because I was hired from, you know, I would get there, like, let's say 9, 9:30, and then I would leave after my spot. So between breaks, when the shows were on, I would go into the other room and do the spots. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And then they started giving spots and then they started giving me more spots. And then I, I managed to work out a deal with them through the union and so that I would do their -- and I would produce their spots. So I would put music and sound effects under for their TV arm of the company. Anne: Oh, wait. So remember when I said quadruple threat? So now we've got yet another. Now she's producing spots as well! Pilar: Well, again, Anne. Anne: Yup. Pilar: I have no idea what I'm doing, right? Anne: Yup. Pilar: Because I, you know, I would just play record. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: So now I have to put, so I now have to do tracks, and I had to learn a whole set of other skills -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I didn't know, I didn't know how to do a console, how to handle a console and do three things at once. So now I'm, I'm producing spots, and then they give me more, and then they give me more and I'm like, wow, okay, I'm getting -- it's almost like the 10,000 hours -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- in, you know, in Outliers. It's like, I'm getting all this training. Anne: I think, I think that's great. And I love the 10,000 hours thing from Malcolm. And I am a total proponent of you need 10,000 hours. And whether you realize it or not, you had put your 10,000 hours in many aspects of your career. And again, if I can recap, you manifested, you wanted to be in radio. It didn't happen overnight. And that's one thing I want to kinda just touch back upon. Because a lot of times I think we're impatient with ourselves. And I think for me, going by my gut, this is what I always say, going by my gut, manifestation, doesn't always happen overnight. And I think that it leads you to the right steps to get to the right place so that you can fulfill that dream or that goal. And so, even though it didn't happen overnight, it did happen because you manifested it. You wanted it, you took the steps that were required to make it happen. And it happened. So BOSSes out there, if you're listening, we can all be learning about this. We can all give ourselves some grace, be patient, but believe in the manifestation and take those steps that it takes to cultivate and achieve that dream. So, sorry, just had a break in there with the educational moment. Pilar: And it's so important what you just said, Anne, because we're thinking that when we call it into being, let's say we're manifesting it, that it's going to happen on our timeline. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Who died and made you God? Right? Who said that you would, that you would be doing this? Or if I, in my case that, because I said, I want to work in radio that next month, the following month -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- I was going to be working radio? No. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it happens. Like there's steps. Anne: It evolves. Pilar: And if you cut those steps, and you, and you jump, you're going to be disappointed or you're going to do it the wrong way. There's a reason that the things come into your life when they come into your life. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And it's because it's when you're ready to receive them, then you can go, oh, because at that moment, when I sent out that resume, I was ready. I might not have been ready if I had sent it out earlier. It may not have hit in the right way. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Later I talked to my boss at WLRN, and he said, you know, I get resumes all the time. It's just that when I read yours, it really fit because you're, you're a Latina. So you could say all these complicated words that would come out in Spanish and French because I also speak French. So, you know, sometimes these things would -- Anne: And yet another threat. I love it. Pilar: But you know, like sometimes there would be these, these weird companies, these weird -- not weird. They're not weird, but they're just French companies. So with the accent -- Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: -- it would just come out better. And I will say one thing that was really fun when I was working in radio was that I got to say my name the way I would say -- 'cause like, if I say my name like, you know -- my, my name is Pilar Uribe. And that's how I, that's how I slate, Pilar Uribe. But once in a while I get to slate my name the way I usually, I would say it on the radio -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- which was "mi nombre es Pilar Uribe. Hola, Pilar Uribe" Anne: Ooh. Pilar: So it's like, it's so much fun to actually say my name. 'Cause I don't, I don't get to do that very often. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: You know? So we was fun to be able to use the bilingual aspect of it all. I mean, I was literally daily using it in the studio because I had to pronounce words in a certain way or -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- you know, so that was really fun to -- Anne: So now, how long was your radio career with WLRN? Pilar: It was two and a half years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And one day my, my landlady writes me an email and says, I'm selling the apartment. I'd spent the entire, my 16 years in, in Miami in the same apartment. I had a great land lady, always had really good luck with that. And I was, I panicked. I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do? And I thought, this is the moment. This is the time -- Anne: For change. Pilar: -- I had been talking about moving. And this is the moment to go and move. And this is the moment for a shift. I literally felt the shift. I was terrified. And I will say that one of the things about doing something new is that there's always the element of fear. Always. Anne: Oh yes. Yes, yes. Pilar: So to sit there and you know, when people say, oh yeah, I went ahead and did this. And you know, you hear these marketing gurus. I, I listen to them on Clubhouse, and you know, they -- do this and I got this and they did this. And it's like, all of that happens with fear. It's just that the courage to be able to change -- Anne: To move through it. Pilar: -- and to move through it is -- Anne: To work through it. Pilar: -- is higher -- Anne: Doesn't mean that you're not scared. Pilar: -- than fear. Exactly. Anne: But you're moving through, and you know what's so interesting about the move? I've got two stories about moving and change. I remember when I personally, I felt like I needed the change. And one was when my husband and I were in New Jersey, and I said, I'm done. I, I love New Jersey. It's served me well, but I'm done. And I would love to go live in California. Jerry, why don't you see if you can get a transfer? And lo and behold, he did. And then I said to him, oh, by the way, Jerry, I need you to be able to make one and a half times what you're making now, because, because I want to quit my job and go full-time into VO. And guess what? It happened. However, nine months after that, he then got laid off from his job. But we stayed. We stayed, you know, we moved to California, we stayed in California, and we worked through it. Everybody said, when are you coming back? I'm like, I'm not coming back. So I worked through the first few years of being full-time voiceover. And it was just one of those things. I had my goals in mind and just set my brain to it. And somehow I've arrived here, thankfully gratefully. But the second time I said, I need a change, we had been in Irvine for 12 years. And I said, I'm done. Thank you, Irvine. It's been wonderful. We need to move, Jerry. And it was one of those things where I didn't even -- he was on a business trip and I said, Jerry, I need to go somewhere else. I know I've got a good 10 years left before -- 10, 15 years before if I, if I retire at all and I need to do it in a new place. And so basically I just said, I want to move. But putting that move into place, we literally got in like maybe a week before lockdown to our new house. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So we had to, like, we had to sell the house. I had to stage the house. We bought a new house. The new house wasn't ready. I had -- we had to move someplace in the interim with the cats, with you, sell the furniture, everything, put stuff in storage. And it was so much work, but we got through it, and now we're in a new place, but it was all from a need or a feeling in me that I needed to shift. I need, I couldn't be stagnant. I needed to grow and change. And I followed it, and it was tough, but I'll tell you what. We're so grateful. And I totally agree with you in terms of like, these things are put in place for movement and change to help people grow and flourish, if you take it in that vein. Pilar: That's so powerful, that story, Anne. It's like listening to your insides instead of worrying about what the outside is saying or -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you know, because you're always going to get pushback. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because there's all kinds of things that, that will, uh, not necessarily bar you, but will make you take stock and think -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- is this the right decision? Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you if I may interrupt for just one second, I'm so sorry -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah, go for it. Anne: -- but I need to tell you that, 'cause you just brought to my mind was the biggest thing was this second time is now that I was an entrepreneur, right, with my own business, you realize that banks don't want to give you loans or approve mortgages when you are self-employed. And so that was huge. I mean, we had to bend over backward to prove that I had money coming in and that, that was, that was a huge thing. And I have to say that I'm grateful and thankful that my voiceover business flourished as it did so that, that wasn't -- I mean, it became a thing where we were worried up to the very last minute that they were not going to approve the mortgage because I had to show all sorts of records of income. And it just, it's crazy when you work for yourself. But thank gosh, my husband, he is able to prove half of it because he worked for an employer, but for me, they were like, no, you need to prove this, this, and this. And so that became a big point. So BOSSes out there working for yourself, know that these things exist. Pilar: And believing in it, I think that that's really important. What you just described is like, despite the no's being told -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- you went ahead anyway. Anne: And did everything I had to do, right -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: -- to prove and to get through it. So, absolutely. Pilar: Yeah. Um, you know, I think there's something that's so important in this business to recognize is the amount of no's that we get. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And when I think about the radio -- Anne: So many. Pilar: -- I mean, I got so many no's, and I got so many, like silences, because that's the other thing about this business. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You don't necessarily get told you don't get the part, or you don't get the gig. You're just, nothing happens. So, you know, that it went to somebody else. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And so, and it's, it's about physically and emotionally and being able to say, okay, all right. That's, that's, you know, and just moving on with it -- Anne: And moving on. Pilar: -- instead of dwelling in it. Anne: And again -- Pilar: Right? Anne: -- can I bring another, can I bring another marketing parallel into this? Pilar: Go for it. Love it. Love it. Anne: So not only auditioning and understanding that if you audition, maybe it's not the right time, right, for the person that is casting that audition. Maybe it's just, it wasn't the right fit for the job at that right time. But also when you're marketing and you're sending out those emails, or you're making those cold calls, all the time, there are no's. Right? And, and it's just not the right time. And so keep in mind that even when you're marketing, that is absolutely a huge consideration, that it's not the right time. They're not looking at that time to buy or to purchase, or they don't need a voice at that time. And the same thing applies to your marketing. So I know so many people that get so defeated about their marketing and like, why isn't it working, and how can I get the next gig? And it's one of those, it's a huge timing issue. And I know when I talk to my BOSS Blast clients, that that is a thing. You know, we get so many emails in our inbox every day. And like, I subscribe to old Navy, right? So old Navy three, four, or five times a week is sending me their latest sale. But I don't click on that email until I need something. And so the same thing goes for if you're trying to market your voiceover business, and that could be a whole other episode, Pilar, with that. Pilar: I think it is. I think it is because I have a story, which I'm not going to include -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- but I have a great story about that. And that's, that's really important. Yeah. Anne: So I love, love, love all the parallels that we are making through your story. So thank you, Pilar, for providing that story. So now I'm going to assume that that next move, is that coming back to New York? Pilar: No. It's going to -- Anne: Or going to all -- LA. Pilar: -- Los Angeles, yes. Anne: So we're going to be hitting the next episode with when you now, I guess, leave Miami and make your trek towards LA. So BOSSes, I can't wait for this next episode. Pilar, thank you so much again for this inspiring, motivating story. I'm just so glad that we're doing this. Pilar: I, I get such a kick out of talking with you, Anne. I learn so much with you, so thank you. Anne: Well, I love drawing the parallels, so. Pilar: I love it. I love it. You're good at it. Anne: So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect just like Pilar and I are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and can't wait to see you next week. See ya. Bye! Pilar: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, in 2022 we are failing fast + furiously. Who's in? In this Bonus Modern Mindset Episode, Anne is joined by special guest Erikka J. They discuss blending tech + creative passions, pursuing multiple careers simultaneously, and most importantly, why it is oh so important to fail so that you can succeed! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the Modern Mindset series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring you special guest Erikka J. Erikka is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced for brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover and -- keep going -- Black Lives Matter and many, many more. As a natural born hustler, I love that, she is also a tech girl, just like me, a project and product management professional with 15 years' experience in multiple sectors, including government, e-commerce, software development, and automotive. Erikka J, it is a pleasure to have you, and thank you so much for joining me today. Erikka: Likewise, thank you, Anne, for having me and, uh, hey to the BOSSes out there. Anne: Yeah, I love it. So I went to your website, which by the way is beautifully branded. So guys, BOSSes out there, you want to have a look at something that's really beautifully branded, I love the website. I was drawn to the music tab there. So I want to say that I love your concept of delivering meaningful, honest, and relatable lyrics, which you call jewels, right, to your fans. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I imagine that this also applies to your philosophy in, in your VO being real and meaningful and honest, and I'm sure that that contributes in a multitude of ways to your success. But let's talk -- we'll do, we'll talk about that in a minute -- but let's talk about how did your singing career help prepare you for your careers thereafter in business as well as voiceover? Erikka: Oh man, I got, uh, I almost want to say I got lucky, but I worked for it too. Um, so I, um, you know, went to college, and even though I was singer and doing all of that, and people were, you know, telling me I should pursue that, I went the whole corporate route. But music chased me; it wouldn't let me stay away from it. So I got the business education from getting my MBA and from working in state government, federal government, and now a corporate job in automotive. But in music, I learned how to record myself out of necessity. So I mean, you know, I didn't have the big label behind me, but I had some ideas and I had to record my own songs that I've written. So started on audacity, started on a Scarlet -- Anne: Wow, all right. Erikka: Scarlet bundle, like with that mic, like that's where I started, in the closet. Yeah, recording myself in music, I learned the tech side of it and how to listen and get very detailed with my ear. And I eventually, I made my way over to voiceover and those skills came in really handy. Anne: Wow. Well, I have to say as a young artist back then, that's an ambitious goal, right, to be a singer. Talk to me a little bit about -- I know you said you didn't have a big label, but it's not like you didn't try to pursue a career path that way I would imagine. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I did the indie route. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I mean, at that time, you know, early 2010s around ish -- Anne: Oh okay, gotcha. Erikka: -- so Internet was around and all the distributions. I could put myself on iTunes and all the platforms. So yeah, I never really did pursue the label route. I wanted to sort of be the captain of my own destiny, you know? Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Yeah. And I had friends that were engineers, so they kind of helped teach me stuff and get me set up with templates. So, um, I did pursue it on my own, but I didn't pursue the getting signed sort of traditional route. Anne: Um, now is that something that you're still doing, or you're still considering, or trying to pursue all different routes? Erikka: I would say I'm probably like on hiatus. Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Music broke my heart a few times. I love it, definitely my first love. But boy, when I found voiceover and was able to pull all these different things that I love into one big bucket, like I've really just fell hard. Anne: So what was it that made you go into business? I mean, you have your MBA. So when you're the starving artist, right, everybody says go to college. And that was, that was my mother, go to college and get a real job. But interestingly enough, what made you pursue your master's in business? Erikka: Yeah, so I kind of always say I lived my life in reverse almost, like in my 20's, I was super serious and straight and you know, yeah, singing's great. But I have to go get a real job. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: I went to college and you know, and it worked out well for me, but again, music just kept pulling me back, the creative that, you know, muscle, it just doesn't, it doesn't die. Anne: Oh, I agree. Erikka: It won't let you move away from it. So I just decided to do both -- Anne: Love it. Erikka: -- and it was crazy. It still is crazy. And I preach that all the time. Like I still have a full-time corporate job at this moment in tech and full-time voiceover, full-time I do both. Anne: Girl after my own heart. I tell ya, it's something special. Right? You have the tech gene and the creative gene. And it's so interesting to have both. It sounds like you love both. And you're passionate about both. Erikka: I do, I do. I mean, and how I got to voiceover was I was doing gigs on the weekend with a corporate band. So my kids were young at the time, and I was writing my own music and doing all that, my own shows, and working for the federal government, for Department of Defense at the time. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So seven days a week, I'm working every day, a little kids, single mom too. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So I was away a lot and you know, I've made time for them, but I was trying to find ways to spend more time with them. And somebody had mentioned voiceover and I'm like, what's that? Like, I didn't even know that people get paid for the stuff I hear on TV every day. And then I just, you know, did the Google hustle, man, you know, and figured it out online, and here we are five and a half years later. It's going pretty well. Anne: Wow. And here you are. That's amazing. Let's talk a little bit about tech -- Erikka: Yes. Anne: -- especially about, I guess, agile practices, which I believe you specialize in, correct? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So I know that I've done an e-learning module on agile practices. I don't know if I understood them completely, but tell me a little bit about first of all, what are agile practices and what can we learn from them in our voiceover career? How do we relate those? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. So agile is like a mindset. It's an approach to software development is how it was born. And I believe it's actually the 20-year anniversary this year or last year it was. It was in 2001 that I think maybe like 17 different software developers got together. Waterfall was sort of their prevailing software development method, which to shorten it is basically just what I used to do, where you write a requirements document. I would write documents that are 60 pages long. You turn that over to your software engineers. You know, we kind of discuss it, go back and forth, make sure everybody understands, and you could be building something for months and then deliver it. So these guys got together and came up with this manifesto of 12 different elements that really focused on the customer, on delivering value over documentation, on making sure that it was an iterative process. Anne: Sure. Erikka: Because what can happen is if you're developing something, and you take six months to get it out, what I wanted six months ago is no longer a value to me. Anne: Yeah. Well, there's nothing worse than having a piece of software, and there's a bug in it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And then you have to wait like forever to get that resolved. Right? I assume that that's part of where this all came from. Erikka: Yeah. Not even a bug. It could mean that they were coding it to spec, but the spec is now changed. Um, you've gotten all the way down the road. Sometimes, you know, these are 18 months projects. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: And you've wasted money, time and value now. So this agile approach, and what I wanted to talk about today is one of the, it's not really one of the values that's in the manifesto, but one of the guiding principles is to fail fast and often. The goal is to be iterative and not let that fear of failure keep you from iterating and trying new things and being creative, and then using that process of failure to inspect and adapt. Go back and look at how you failed, what you could do better next time and look at it as a true learning process and a path to success. Anne: Wow. Well, that's it. We can go home now because that was, that was such a beauty. That was so valuable, what you just said in that short amount of time. I completely agree. I mean, there's so much learning to be had from failing. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. There's such a stigma and there's such shame with failure, but you can take that failure, and nobody learns from winning, right? Like -- Anne: True. Erikka: -- you learn from, from when you lose. Anne: Isn't that that's so true. And I think that just happens all the time, really, in an industry where we audition to win jobs -- Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and we are constantly facing rejection or sometimes we hear nothing at all. So we don't know why we failed or how we failed. Erikka: Oh man. Yeah. As creators, as voiceover talent, as entrepreneurs in general, like there's so much wider, and agile was born from software development, but it really can be applied to so many different areas of life, of business, and just learning how to take that failure and be resilient and, you know, exercise your grit. I just saw the Ted Talk on Angela Duckworth. I don't know if you've heard of her, and she referenced the growth mindset, and you know, how grit is really that willingness to fail and to be wrong so that we can learn from it. And man, if we don't face it every day with auditions -- Anne: Right, that's just the first step. Erikka: -- I don't know what is. Anne: And I love how you expanded it out to be not just the performance aspect of our industry, but also just the entrepreneur mindset. I mean, yeah. I can't tell you after so many years of being in this industry and how many times I've failed, and I liked the whole iterative process of fail fast -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- because I've always thought of it as well. I just kind of changed direction. Right? I never in my brain, I don't say I've failed. I say, well, I need to just change direction. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so that way I wouldn't have that stigma that you're talking about of shame and like, oh my God, I failed. I always said, well, I don't think of it as failure. I think of it as just changing direction, which actually seems to follow the agile mindset as well. Erikka: Absolutely it does. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So how have you learned from that in your voiceover career? Because now how long have you been doing voiceover? Erikka: Yeah, voiceover. I started in September of 2016. Anne: Okay, yup. Erikka: So this will be my sixth year coming up. How have I learned? My goodness. So even when I was doing music, when I was singing and doing all of that, I've did approach it as a business. So I've actually had my LLC since 2015. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I always approach that as investing in myself and looking for an ROI and trying to make the business money that I was making fund the expenses that I had for the business. It wasn't like that for a long time. I was putting in personal money. Anne: Right? Ugh. Erikka: I had business debts and honestly just in the past year, I'm going to be really vulnerable and transparent right now, I paid off $50,000 of business debt. That was a failure. Anne: But that means so much to me that you were vulnerable like that. And you were able to say that because that's going to really help so many BOSSes out there that look, I remember, and my vulnerability is my first year full-time in voiceover, I made like $12,000 for the year. Erikka: Same, same. Anne: Like it was not -- it was just -- people are like, oh my God, I'm making six figures or whatever. No, my first year, and I worked my tush off that first year. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I've known to be a workhorse myself. I feel like we're soul sisters in that area. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And questioning in the beginning, like, oh my gosh, am I going in the right direction? I remember sobbing one day; everything just came down on me. And I'm like, I don't even know if this is where I should be. Yeah. And I had given up. Now see, for me, I had given up my career in tech. I was teacher tech. So it was kind of the same thing, kind of that technology and creative in the same area. I finally said to my husband, well, let's move to California, and I'm going to quit my cushy corporate educational, secure tech job and just going to do full-time voiceover. And that was just a leap of faith. I mean, thankfully I had put into motion, we had a plan. I mean, I had that financial cushion that allows you to do it, but I did it in 2008, which was the worst year to like -- Erikka: Oh God, yeah, '08. Anne: -- if you're in tech, you know that if you are out of tech for a couple of months, that's it, you're old, you're dead wood. That's like -- Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: You've lost any kind of -- Erikka: You will not get up to speed. Anne: No. I said, oh God, I just need to rest. Give me like three months. I gave it three months, and then nobody would talk to me. It was 2008. And it was like, wow, you cannot stop in tech because otherwise you just, oh, you're not up to speed. And you know, I couldn't even get interviews. And I was like, okay. So I got to make this voiceover thing work and worked my butt off. And I liked that you said it's years. It's not like an overnight, like getting your ROI is just, you have to have, I think the wherewithal and the grit to kind of just survive that and just keep trying things, failing fast, right. And trying something else. Erikka: And that was the failure is that, you know, I, I knew that I was going to need, you know, different classes to take. And you know, a lot of that was music as well. Like, you know, the, the video that you and I were chatting about before, that costs money. Anne: Yes. Beautiful video. Erikka: You know? Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. BOSSes, just go to Erikka's page. She's got some really awesome videos, and you have a beautiful voice. So. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. I mean, quality was really important to me. So, you know, I mean, you'll see it before I paid for it. Anne: So I told my husband, come over here and look at, look how beautifully shot this video is, let alone how awesome the whole performance and the storyline. And I feel like when I watched you singing, like I can see so many parallels between singing, performing, and also voiceover. Because again, if you're all about being meaningful and relatable, and I think authentic, I could see that in the video, in your performance. And I'm like, wow, you translate that into a voiceover performance. And bam, like, that's the magic. That's the magic. Erikka: That was for me because, you know, aspect of music that I always loved the most was that I was able to channel my emotions, not just through the words, but like how, the way that I was singing. And I had no clue how helpful that was, that I had already honed that skill, and that, that was a strength of mine to bring that to voiceover gave me a leg up, you know? Anne: Oh my goodness, yeah. Erikka: Oh my goodness. It was great. I mean, not just the failures in music, I wanted to just, 'cause we're talking about failure too, in voiceover, you mentioned that you had left tech and kind of given up and quit on it. And I did just about walk away from voiceover. Same thing. I was, you know, four years in. I think the best, the most I had made was like $25,000 in a year. And I'm like, you know, I can't keep doing this and I have to shout out Mr. Zellman my guy, my man Cliff -- Anne: Oh yeah.   Erikka: Because -- Anne: Who doesn't love Cliff Zellman? Erikka: I love him so much. Any voiceover that somebody got from me after August of 2019 is because of Cliff, because I was going to quit. Anne: Yeah. You want to talk about passion in what somebody does? Cliff is so passionate. Honestly, he's so passionate at what he does and he's so genuine and so authentic, wonderful, wonderful person to work with, if you ever get the chance, highly recommended. Yeah. And I can see him. He's like, he almost could be a motivational coach. Erikka: Right? Anne: Um, you know, because he is that passionate. Now you work, full-time, you say, at your corporate job and you're doing voiceover as well, and you have a family. So what's the fail first kind of -- does that translate into every aspect of your life as well? Erikka: Four letter word yes. Anne: Yup. Erikka: So all of this really kind of kicked up for me when I started working full-time from home with the pandemic. So that's where I was able to, you know, really dive in and give all my other time to voiceover and still be able to maintain both. 'Cause I was home all the time. The failure, there was boy, and I'm still learning about the self-care aspect, but I kind of really put my family on the back burner for awhile. In my relationship with my boyfriend, we had to really work through that. I'm a hard working woman, and he hadn't been with a woman that was as ambitious as I was before. And I kind of dove in probably a little too hard where I had to learn that you have to live life to be able to give good voiceover. Anne: Oh yeah. Right? Erikka: It can't all be the work. Anne: You've got to rebuild that creative -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- yeah, spark I think. And if you want -- Erikka: You've got to have experiences. Anne: Yeah. You're talking to a workaholic, I get it. I totally get it. And you're right. There's always that balance. And I think I need to sit back and continually remind myself of that balance as well, because I'm like, look, I just want to get to this place. I might be retiring in 15 years. And so I don't want to have to worry about how am I going to pay the mortgage or I want to go travel. And so I'm always working towards something, and I think that a modern mindset of fail fast. I love that. You just twisted that for me, fail fast. Give me an example of the fail fast that worked in your favor because rather than well, let's just, I completely give up voiceover. No, let's just change direction. Erikka: I could talk a little bit -- I saw that P-to-Ps was something that you guys recently talked about as well. So my approach and my philosophy, whenever I talk to people about those, is I feel like they are a lead source, just like people go to Google to go look, they go to those sites, and they're essentially search engines. LinkedIn is a search engine. So there are some that maybe work better than others and some that maybe don't work as well. My approach was to track my ROI as I went, if I was to pay for more, a higher level tier. So if I pay for one, and you know, I'm waiting and I'll see if I need to cancel. If I need to read the next year, rather than sort of throwing all your eggs in one basket and saying, I'm just going to do stuff for my agents, trying different avenues as lead generators for work. Anne: Got it. Erikka: And I keep a close eye on that. Anne: And I think it's all about lead generation, isn't it really, to be successful in this voiceover industry? I mean, because the entrepreneurial, like the fear factor is that we don't necessarily know what work is coming in every single day. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So being able to secure maybe a steady flow of possibilities, right, and us acting on those possibilities, like the auditions or even just having people find us, that is, I think the hardest part about being a voiceover actor and making that a full-time gig is that you don't know where that next paycheck is coming from. You don't know where the next client is coming from, and having a lead generation software, or you consider your P-to-P lead generation software. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And even your website, like I said, again, I'm going to go back to your website, because I'm worked in tech and I worked on websites back in the day. I would never do it today. I hire people, but knowing a good website when you get to it and establishing know, like, and trust. People hire people they know, like, and trust. Your website is your online personification of your storefront. And that storefront, if presented correctly, can be an immediate, like I immediately said, yes, that girl is who I want to hire. And it was a visual -- I didn't even listen to anything yet. I went to your website and I said, there she is. It's just stunning. It's the attitude, the confidence, the, you know, and now everybody should be rushing over to your website. But it's so true. It's just so well done. I don't know if you had a website before, and for me there's versions of my website that were failure, you know, fail fast and let's switch it up. Let's see what's working. That's another thing that people come in. It is a first impression. And if that first impression is a fail, switch it up, switch it up. Erikka: You're done. Anne: You're done. Switch it up. Switch it up, you're done. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Move on to the next. Anne: Yeah. It honestly has such an effect on first impression. Yeah. She looks like someone I could absolutely trust, and she's just got the goods. Like I want to work with her. Erikka: And yeah, another piece of that is it's the fail fast and often. So when you bring up my website, and it's so funny, I appreciate the compliments. I did build that site myself on Squarespace. Anne: Damn. Erikka: Um, and I'm in the process of having it professionally redone because you know, like you said, I just, I'm like, I'm good, you know, the whole back end piece, you know, to make it really fast. That's not my area of genius. So I'm paying people for that, but it still works. Anne: Absolutely. It still works with that first impression. Right? It's just like just bam, that first page. And that made me want to go investigate more. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. And what I've done to kind of figure out what works is playing with the SEO in there, which I know you love to talk about and so do I, because I love passive ways of generating leads. I want to be in the booth. I don't want to go chase clients. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Like it just saves so much time. I'd rather have someone find me first, that whole SEO thing, especially if it's organic, right? That's all fail fast. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And keep adjusting and keep evolving. And it's not hard if you're doing organic SEO. And, and I don't know if I would pay people to do SEO other than having somebody maybe writing press releases and you know, doing that kind of thing. That is something again that can really affect your success in the business. And, you know, success begets success. I keep saying that lately. And I think that it just becomes this wonderful ball of energy -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- which when it happens, if you do fail, I always think it's failure on a smaller level. Maybe it's not huge, huge fail when you work with fail fast. I think they're tiny failures, and they're always something that you feel that you can overcome. And I think the confidence of that is so much better than, oh my God, I have failed in a huge way. Let's just P-to-P's just don't work. Let's give them up or I can't get any work. Let's give up voiceover, that's a big fail. You don't want the big fails. You want the little fails that you still have the confidence that, you know what, maybe if this doesn't work, I'll just try this next. And that way it keeps the momentum going. Erikka: And that is the exact rationale behind agile is that it's not saying, go ahead and do the big failures. It's saying, if you, if you are more iterative in your approach as to how you're developing or how you're managing your business, or how you're approaching your auditions, then when you have those failures, they're smaller and you can continue them and recover from them faster and find the success. So yeah, you got it, Anne, you know agile. Anne: I love that. Look at that, so now I know agile. Well, how cool is that? So, and then if we apply this to our businesses, and here's where the creative, because I like having the 50-50 brain, right? Because the tech in me says, let's solve a problem. If it's not this it's this, or let's try this. This could be the other solution. And that's where I think that left brain, right brain thing helps because it does help you fail in smaller ways. And sometimes when I work with people who are completely creative or just come from a creative background, it becomes an all or nothing, almost dramatic sort of failure or success. I think that the small fails is where it's helped me in just having a little bit of that tech brain. And that's why I like the entrepreneurship of the industry, because -- so you've got the, kind of the best of both worlds, right? You've always been an entrepreneur, but now you're also working corporate. So there's a dependability factor there for you, right? You go to work every day, you know what to expect. Hopefully you're getting a paycheck every other week or whatever that is. Right? And that gives you the confidence to really take risks in an entrepreneurial endeavor because you've got a little bit of that cushion. Erikka: Exactly. Yep. And that was the goal. And that's what I tell people is there's this stigma of you have to be either/or. You have to either be an entrepreneur or you're not all in if you're still in corporate. And that is absolutely not true. For me, my job is a source of capital. As I am building my business up, I've crossed the, the goal threshold that I've wanted to get to. And now it's a matter of, you know, when is it gonna make sense for me to just focus on the one, but for now it's working. So why not take that money and invest it in your business? If you can manage both, it is okay to have more than one dream. Anne: I completely agree. And that's kind of why, as an entrepreneur, I've divvied up my own business, my entrepreneurial endeavors into multiple segments. It's not just voiceover for me, because again, that is the most unpredictable source of income because sometimes you just don't know, a job won't come in or you won't get the gig. So building up those other revenue streams on the side, whether you're doing it as an entrepreneurship or it's a corporate or a part-time job. I mean, when I went full-time, I did have a part-time job. I was an office assistant, and that gave me the money that helped pay the bills. And so I feel like that is all part of that mindset, that modern mindset of failure that is very similar to agile, where you make the plan to have the finances come in, to give you the confidence, to take the risks in building your entrepreneurial business. And then that will take off like a snowball. Erikka: There are four like core principles of agile. And one of them is responding to change over following a plan. It's not saying that following a plan is not important or that it's not valuable, but it's if you have one of the two you're going to prioritize responding to change. And that is exactly what you were talking about. I know people where they've, you know, they were full-time. I don't really love the full-time voiceover thing because I know other people that do full-time jobs and are full-time voiceover, like six figures. So, but I know people that have decided to go back and get a job because they wanted to pay off debt or they wanted to have more capital to invest in their business. There's nothing wrong with that. You can change along with the conditions and then alter your plan to fit what's happening right now. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And also, if you are just full-time voiceover, things are evolving. Trends are changing, um, technology, you and I know, technology is coming, and it is going to change the industry just as it changes all aspects of every industry, technology. And I, I love the fact that I have a technology background. I feel like you enjoy your corporate job just as much as you enjoy voiceover. Erikka: I do. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Erikka: I work with such smart people and I always tell them, like, you guys are so much smarter than me. And I just learn from them every day. Anne: It is inspiring. Erikka: It's inspiring. Anne: It's inspiring. I'll tell you. I've had some podcast guests on here that are brilliant, and it exhilarates me. And it gives me confidence and motivation to just go further and delve deeper into my own entrepreneurialship and my voiceover career. So it's, it's really awesome. I love that we have this whole modern mindset failure based on technology. What a really refreshing conversation. Erikka: Thank you. Likewise. I've really enjoyed this, Anne. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh, BOSSes. Go check out Erikka's website. Thank you so much, Erikka, for being with us today. It's really been a pleasure. Erikka: Thank you, Anne, for having me. Thank you to all the BOSSes. You guys, keep rocking on. Anne: Yeah, all right. I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can nerd out with your colleagues and friends and also countless wonderful things. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Erikka: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Have you deconstructed the pay-to-play algorithm? We haven't either, but we're close! In this episode, Anne & Laya discuss the evolution of P2P's from a talent-client connection tool to the modern algorithmic matching game. They share how to use P2P's as a learning tool, how to build them into your business model, and why they have such a polarizing reputation… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya: Hey Anne. Anne: Good morning, Laya. How are you? Laya: Good morning. It's chilly and the a -- in the dirty south, but I'm hanging in there. Glad to be back talking with you, of course. We always have such great conversations these days. I'm loving it. Anne: Yeah. That we do. And I wanted to kind of talk a little bit. We had talked last episode about casting, and we touched upon pay-to-plays -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and that's always such a big topic in the voiceover land. Laya: Sure is. Anne: And I thought that it would be something that we could talk about today and just share our experiences that we've had, successes, I don't know, fails. Yeah. Let's let's chat about pay-to-play, shall we? Laya: We shall. I have quite a bit of experience. I think I have like a modern mindset perspective on pay-to-plays. So it'd be a great fit for our theme, right? Anne: Let's go from the old mindset first, because I -- Laya: Okay. Anne: -- back in the day, I swear it was like back in 2000-something when Voice123 came onto the scene. I was an early, early adopter of that. Laya: As was I. Anne: Yep, and I remember having quite a bit of success with Voice123. I actually really loved the model because it allowed me to upload all my demos and samples and basically get job opportunities from different clients. And there was basically no interference. I got to have the opportunity from the client, communicate with the client, book a job with a client. And then actually a lot of times the client would just then come to me without necessarily having to go through Voice123 for the next job. So I kind of liked that. It was a win situation I think for all of us because I paid a membership fee to Voice123, and I got my job. And then every once in a while, if I had repeat clients, they would come back to me, not necessarily having to go through Voice123, but it wouldn't have even mattered to be honest with you, because if they favorited me, they didn't have to audition again. So it just worked out really well. And it has certainly evolved over the years. It's been a good 15 or so years now of pay-to-plays being on the scene. There are so many more of them. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But I found them to be extremely lucrative in the beginning when I started. And now I've got a different opinion, but let me hear about your -- let's hear about your experience -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- in the beginning with pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, as we've mentioned before, you know, I really only dove in full time about three years ago, but I'd always been doing voice work. And I was an early adopter of Voice123 as well. I've been a member since 2011, so over 10 years. And that was just back when it was kind of toying with this cool, you know, I mean, everything on the web seemed to be fresh and new. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they were among the first to kind of harness the power of connecting talent with buyers. Right? And so how great. They made it easy, they kind of one-stop shopped it, and they didn't get in your way. And the price was fair because there wasn't a whole lot of reach. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, we all know how this has evolved over the last few years, especially. It's been a different experience for a lot of people, but I had the same experience you did early on. And then I kind of went dormant for several years. Didn't really put a whole lot of effort in, but on occasion I would still get hit up even with my like really crappy samples back then. I didn't know what I was doing. And so it was kind of a nice lead source, right? Lead gen for me. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And I think it was for a lot of people. So I'm glad you share the same sentiment. Anne: Yeah. Now, I think it's fair to say that any pay-to-play, no matter what, seems to be a game of having really great demos and not just one of them uploaded on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I think all of the pay-to-plays subscribed to that. The more samples that you have -- because it's all a matching game. It's all a search algorithm and a matching game. And that's kind of like the secret of Google, but in pay-to-plays, right? Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: We all were trying to debug the algorithm so that we could get the opportunities sooner and faster and get more of those either likes or stars on the system. And I just remember probably going back maybe close to eight to ten years ago, people started then having classes on here's how to optimize your experience, right? Or this is what you want to -- kind of like how to optimize your profile on a pay-to-play. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So for BOSSes out there, I want to say that pay-to-plays are absolutely a part of this industry. They're not going away anytime soon. Laya: Nope, that's right. Anne: And I do believe that they are part of your opportunities that you need to look out for when you are trying to get business and grow your voiceover business. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with you, Anne, and I actually -- you know, there is such a negative connotation about pay-to-plays, whether people are on -- I will wrap the Fiverrs of the world into the pay-to-play model, just because in a way you are optimizing a profile. Anne: Yup. Laya: You're using somebody else's house to promote your business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- as opposed to just doing it yourself on your own website, your own LinkedIn page, et cetera. But I think no matter how you cut your marketing pie and your opportunity pie, you got to eat from each of those sections, especially in the beginning just to get your footing. Right? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Just to kind of understand what is out there, what types of reads suit you best, where you sit. I mean, I said it on a previous episode and it's absolutely true, although I'm not entirely proud of it. Early on the pay-to-plays to me were practice ground. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And I know that's not the popular way to think of those things because you are putting yourself out there, and it's important that you do so with dignity and grace and respect and present a professional profile, no matter what, but that's how I learned some things -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- in the privacy of my home, in my studio, in my mic, my Skid Row Studios. Anne: And you know what I understand the thought process of here you are putting yourself out there and maybe you're not putting yourself out there with the best foot forward, but at some point you do have to put yourself out there, and your very first time that you put your voice out there, it's not going to be optimal. And so I think where else, right? Whereas I think a better place -- and I'm not saying that you're going to learn, I think probably more by doing it in kind of an open marketplace, and here's the deal. There's always, there's always clients out there. Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so the one client that might hear your sample and says, "oh, you know, that's not up to par" or maybe they hear your audition, and they're like, "oh no, that's not" -- I mean, the one thing that you don't want is maybe a negative rating because that will hurt you on the pay-to-plays. You don't want to have people -- Laya: For sure. Anne: -- saying things, but I don't think in the normal run of things that somebody's gonna rate you -- well, they might rate you poorly or write a note and say, well, I would never hire this person. Laya: No. Anne: I think that in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't happen, and I would consider it an investment in your business, an investment to finding out here are the types of jobs that are available out there and get yourself used to the different styles. I think once you've coached, you've created your demos, and you're not actively out there coaching, you may not see the current relevant scripts or styles that are out there and being hired. So I think that's -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- so important to do that. So I think pay-to-plays are definitely something that you should have in your toolbox. And like you said, you're paying to play in someone else's house. I prefer always to have the control in my house, but you know, when you're first starting, I think you have to just create as many opportunities as you can. Laya: Yeah. I would agree with that. And the other thing I like about pay-to-plays that I don't think we talk enough about is the opportunity to learn from others. You know, you can go onto voices.com, not as a member and not have a profile yourself -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and just learn from the top tier talent that are booking every week. You know, they've got their top tens in female, in male, top 100 this month, you know, biggest earners, top 10. And you can go scrub through those profiles -- Anne: Listen. Yup. Laya: -- and learn by listening -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and by reading how they optimize or how they describe their voice or vocal tone, some of their capabilities, some of their sound-alikes, you know, and that in itself, I think every profile on every one of these pay-to-play opportunities, there is something to learn there, if you're willing to take the time with open eyes and an open mind to really see what everyone else is bringing to the table. And that way you can learn, whether you're a VO pro or you're a novice, there's always something to learn from these sites. So if we can scrub off the negative connotation on these and really just use them as a learning vehicle, whether it's a practice vehicle or just learning by watching and listening, then there's definitely something to gain whether you're a member or not. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of the negative connotations for, I dunno, BOSSes just starting out in the industry, there are some online casting pay-to-plays that do not have the best of reputations. And I think if you were to research any of the voiceover groups and do a search for the particular name of the pay-to-play that you might be researching, you'll find lots and lots and lots of discussion about that. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I think it becomes a personal decision. So just in a nutshell, some of the pay-to-plays have been found to be maybe unscrupulous, maybe some business practices that may not align with what others may think as being ethical. And so I think it really, it really comes down to you. This is your business and you choose who you want to do business with. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I would say before you invest in any of the pay-to-plays, make sure you're doing some research on which ones you're interested in and see what other people are saying. There's a lot of people saying a couple of these are definitely not practicing ethical business practices. So if you want to align yourself with that business or not, I think that's a personal decision. Laya: I would agree with that. And you brought up a great point. I don't think enough VO talent use that search resource within voiceover specific groups on Facebook, for instance. You can literally type in Voice123 -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- or Voices or Fiverr or any -- VO Planet, any of the names, the big names. Before you buy your membership, do yourself a favor and scrub those pages, those groups for those keywords, because everybody has done the -- done the work for you. Anne: Yup. Laya: Trust me, there's probably a million, and everybody's got an opinion, you know. Anne: Sure do. Laya: Form your own by reading and taking it with a grain of salt, reading between the lines a little bit, because that's not for us to just go -- we can spend months talking about that. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And then we're not here for that. Just as a guide to say, there are resources out there that'll give you a look behind the curtain -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and plenty of conversations around this. And again, just do what's best for your business. So I'm happy to share what I've done that's best for mine, if you want to talk about it or we can dive in a little bit. Anne: Yeah, well, I think one thing I just want to tap off of what you just said is it is all about your business. And I always have my favorite saying, and that is mind your own business, not -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- you know, not into additional sense of, but you need to mind your own business and what's good for you in terms of how you want to invest, how you want to align yourself, how you're going to get those job opportunities, because you know, voiceover is an amazing career. However, it's not an amazing career when you don't have any jobs. So -- Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- this is a major component of that. And I'll just start off by saying currently now over the years, I've evolved. Thankfully, gratefully I've evolved where I have a nice customer base. I have a nice set of returning customers. I do some direct marketing, and we had talked about that previously as well. And I am a member of a couple of pay-to-plays. However, I'm gratefully busy enough that I don't have time to always audition for them, but they remain in my pocket for times when maybe the job opportunities are on the low side so that I can always, oh, let me go ahead and audition for this. Let's see what happens. Laya: Right. Anne: So I have some good experiences with a couple that I feel are aligned with my business, ideals and practices, and they kind of sit there at the ready for me. Laya: And I think not only are they a resource to tap into when you need them or when you've got a little extra time, especially as you evolved your voiceover business. I'm kind of getting to the same point as well. And I'm super grateful for that. Anne: Yup. Laya: But I also keep those profiles optimized -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and present because their SEO beats the heck out of mine. Anne: Yup, well, absolutely. Laya: And I can never put as much advertising into my own business to outweigh the SEO that, let's say, a Voice123 does. They put all their money into that. And they really own the market share in a lot of ways. Now, there are some talent, yourself as one of them, that have incredible SEO and have managed to really make huge leaps and bounds in that area. But for me, who doesn't spend a lot of money or time optimizing my personal site, not as much as I probably could, I use them for a search. You know, I'm just another great voice that they can find in search as part of the -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- bigger marketplace of buyers looking. Anne: Well, have you seen, if you do a Google search for anything voiceover, the first results that show up are all the voiceover pay-to-plays. Laya: Yes. Anne: And that's because every member has some form of the word voiceover in their profile -- Laya: Yup, that's right. Anne: -- we -- you -- Laya: We've done it. Anne: -- probably couldn't pay enough. Although Fiverr has certainly paid, like I remember, gosh, they've been paying Google ads forever for voiceovers. So if you search for anything voiceover, one of the top results that will show up is Fiverr. So it is an SEO kind of search game. And just as you said, as you optimize your profile -- which that was always a key element, a key strategy. When you are part of a pay-to-play, you want to make sure that you have a profile that is searchable and that can show up when -- when a client wants to find a voice that is compassionate or has experience in, let's say, healthcare or technical. So you want to make sure that that profile is optimized to react to those searches. And there are lots and lots of classes on these and that you can take, if you want some help with that. Laya, I think you mentioned to me before you had taken a class on how to optimize your profile for pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, I sure did. You know, I, it's a tough thing to talk about yourself. When you really put your fingers on the keyboard and you really have got to start to identify what your sample sound is described as, or how do you talk about yourself as a -- from a bio? Anne: Sure. Laya: Do you -- is it first person? Is it third person? That sometimes can be a really big block for us creatives because I'm not a copywriter. And certainly I could tell somebody else what they sound like, but it's really hard to narrow down in your own mind what your samples sound like -- Anne: Oh, so true. Laya: -- and how they stack against anybody else that might be in your same space. And so I found a really great resource in two fellow voice talent, Katherine Toll, and Natasha Marchesky. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, but they do a service. I think it's called VO Pros or -- Anne: V123 Pros, I believe. Laya: Yeah. V123 Pros. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And they offered like a, a short course and it was peer-led. Of course they were helping us with that and really trying to figure out how to curate and cultivate keywords that made sense for your voice print. And everyone got to participate together, listening to each other's and then providing feedback. I found that to be incredibly eyeopening because it is so hard to describe your own voice. Anne: Sure, sure. Laya: So that's where I started. And then it was so beneficial and so eye opening to me because of course, I am a member of Voice123 and Voices, and I was able to apply those same key words not just on my pay-to-play profiles but on my own website. Anne: Website. Laya: Yeah, and so that, I was able to use that information a plethora of ways. And I was so impressed by the process, I actually hired those two talented ladies to optimize my profile one-on-one and just let me take my hands off the wheel because we were going to crash, and it really paid off. So yeah. Anne: It does help. It does help to have another set of ears listening -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- to you and helping to brand you. I mean, that's just every day when I'm working with students that I'm vocally branding them -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because it's very hard to brand yourself, as you mentioned. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: And it does help to have others' ears and eyes. And I'll tell you what, one of the most popular podcasts, by the way, BOSS podcasts to this date even is Bad-Ass BOSS Bios. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: So you can check that out. Yeah. Do a search on that. We have a template that can help you to write your bio. This bio was intended for everything, your website, profiles, and it's how to write your bio better. And those BOSSes out there that are thinking of parallel income streams and multiple passion-preneurs that you are, if you're good at writing, and you're good at writing bios, here's a nice side business for you. Laya: Yeah, it is. Oh my gosh. Anne: Because so many people just don't know what to write or it's very difficult. And so that I would say is a great little sideline business. Laya: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I might need the template myself, because it is, it's hard to kind of present yourself to the world. You know, you get nervous, you get a little anxious, and you want to make sure that you're using, of course, proper punctuation -- Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: -- and the right descriptive words, and you're not totally over yourself or underselling yourself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's a big thing too. And so I loved what they were able to curate for my voiceprint. And I've applied that, like I said, to not only my profiles, but my website -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - so much, so is as soon as we flipped the switch on my profile, and it was optimized fully, I got hit up directly by a very, very nice paying client without even auditioning. So it essentially paid for itself. And that was a win for me. Now, I know that's, you know, maybe not the case in every situation, but that really took a big burden off of my shoulders. Anne: Sure. Laya: And like we talked about earlier, you know, if you can't do it, outsource it, and those, those two really helped me out. So that was one way to win on pay-to-plays for me. But I found some other ways over the years too. So. Anne: Well, I do want to make a mention that even if you're not a member of the pay-to-play or we'll just go back and retouch on this topic. If it wasn't evident before, go ahead and create a profile, a free profile -- Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: -- because that just helps you in terms of -- the more SEO you can get online, the better. Laya: Yep. Anne: So if you can create a free profile, I say, go ahead. I mean, it just makes you available and out there on more search engines. So definitely make sure that you're creating those profiles. I think I had a free profile on a couple of them, and I got direct inquiries from them. So, and I got jobs -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- without even necessarily having to belong to the pay-to-play. So that was always a good thing. Laya: That's right. Yeah, sure is, Anne. And I don't think people realize that enough. They're like, God, I got to pay for a membership? Anne: Yup. Laya: Well, yes. And I would say this. For me, my business strategy is if there is going to be an opportunity where I'm going to invest, I want to invest all in at this -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- point in my business. Anne: Sure. Laya: I want that premium or that platinum level membership. Because even if, like you mentioned, even if I'm not contributing and doing the auditions on a regular basis, that's going to optimize my visibility to be the cream of the crop when other buyers are looking for voices. So while I may not be active on these sites, at least my profile is hitting -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the first rung in search. And I find that in itself to be a huge value and actually pay for the cost of, you know, the party. Right? Anne: Right, right. Laya: So if you can even get one client out of that, then you may have paid for your year subscription or whatever. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Laya: And that's something to consider. Anne: Now, you mentioned that there are different levels and that is something -- of these pay-to-plays -- that is something that as of late, right, all of the pay-to-plays, I believe, have kind of taken on this -- well, okay. There was a one membership fee that, you know, for many years you paid one membership fee. And then eventually over the years, I think the majority of them started creating these levels of membership. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so I think that's where it started for me to really think, whoa, now I see where -- before it was just like, oh, okay. A membership, you know, they make a profit, I get jobs. I make a profit. And I felt like we were on a level playing ground. Then when pay-to-plays became, I don't know, maybe the voiceover industry grew, and they became more competitive with one another. And then they started creating these levels. I thought, huh, I see. I wonder how these levels are actually working, because here's the deal. I love having control over my business. So when somebody is playing around with an algorithm, right -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- and saying, okay, if you pay another amount, you're going to get listed higher in the search engines or you'll get the jobs earlier. Then it really, I start really thinking about, well, I have no control over how they're judging when I'm getting an audition or not. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And will I be first on the list? But it became this kind of race to buy the platinum memberships or buy the high level memberships that would get you the auditions quicker so that you could get the opportunities quicker. And I think for a while, it actually was something that worked for some people. And I think some people, they did not see results. And so all that kind of discussion that started happening made me start to question, okay, so how are these working? My technical brain, 'cause you know, I used to work in technology, started spinning and saying, oh, what are they really doing to get me better opportunities? So I did join a platinum level back in the day. And I did find that I got more opportunities. However, I was so busy that I couldn't take advantage of it as much, which was silly because I paid a lot of money. But I do believe that up to a certain point, paying for those levels and upgrading those levels does give you a better shot. However, I don't know how much control you have over that. I don't know, Laya. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What are your thoughts about that? Laya: You know, I feel the same way. It's really, it feels icky, right, when anybody's got their hand out or in your pocket, and you're a solo-preneur. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You're -- you own your business. And every bit of that investment needs to kind of be cross-checked. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And if you're not getting the value, and that's not working for your business model, then you know, it's not for you. And that's okay. None of these solutions are for everybody. Anne: Sure. Laya: As far as the tiers go for me, there was a point in my career that I had the time, that I wasn't seeing a unique opportunities for my agents, and that the marketing efforts weren't bringing in as regular of bookable opportunities as I would have liked. I was on some production houses, et cetera. But so I really leaned into those, into Voice123 primarily, but Voices as well. And you know, I think what's interesting about those is I did notice a huge change when up-leveled as far as opportunities. I also got a lot of direct bookings that way. Anne: Myself too. Laya: Yep. And then private invites, if you're on Voices, by some of account managers. And I think it, depending on if you can book them will depend on whether or not those costs are justified. Anne: Sure. Laya: I personally saw a huge increase. And so I stayed at those levels. Now, I've since dropped down because the opportunities in my business is just busier, just like you mentioned, and I don't have time to audition, but I still do prefer more visibility from those premium levels on those sites. Anne: Sure. Laya: If I'm going to be there, I want to be at the top, and it's paid off in different ways. It's very hard to really gauge it. And you're a numbers person too. You're technical. Anne: Yep. Laya: So you want to- -- Anne: Oh, yeah. Laya: -- you want to see the ROI. Anne: Oh, definitely. Laya: It's very hard to gauge, but if you've been on them long enough and you've made a jump either up or down, I think it's pretty clear that the opportunities go where the levels do. And it's unfortunate they're doing that, but hey, they're business just like we are. Anne: Absolutely. And I think it's important to include them as opportunities. And now of course, I also include them for opportunities because I like to consider myself an educator in this industry. And so for me, it's also, it's an investment in an experience, right? So I can't tell you how many times, I mean, I've wanted to just join all of the pay-to-plays because I want to have that individual experience that I can then share with my students or share with people in the industry to say, here's my experience, because you know, we all like to help each other and lift each other up -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- in this game. So I'm never one to judge anymore about which pay-to-play. That was a thing too, where there was like some public shaming if -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- if you belong to one or another. But again, I'm of the thought that we should mind our own businesses and look, who am I to judge someone else if they're going to put food on the table. Laya: And that's just -- Anne: That's just not -- Laya: Yep, that's right. Anne: -- my thing. Laya: That's what it comes down to. And one of the things I heard out there, and again, we don't want to get into it, but is that some agents wouldn't sign you on -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- if you had placement on some of these pay-to-plays. Anne: I had heard too. Laya: That's something to consider if that's part of your end game strategy. Anne: Yep, yeah. Laya: For me, I want to be with a partner that has my best interest and -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- sometimes, if they can't feed me, I got to eat somewhere. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: So until they can fully pay my entire mortgage and put food -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- on my family's table, I got to do what is best for my business. And for me, it was seeing some of those opportunities. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Now I will say, when it comes to the scrutiny, whether it's, there's hearsay about are these digital models pulling down the overall rates in the industry? Anne: Yes, that's a big indus- -- that's a big discussion. Laya: Exactly. And you know what I have to say about that? I think if you're a strong business person and you know what the standard rates are, it's very easy. Everyone can go to the GVAA -- Anne: Yep. Laya: - and weigh their own rates or their ideas about a project against the rate guide. Anne: Sure. Laya: And if you really want to stay true to that, which I do, then I only take a look or auditioned for the opportunities that are in alignment -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- with the standard industry rates. Anne: Absolutely. And that is always a choice. So glad you said that because -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- it is a choice. No matter what pay-to-play platform you're on or whoever you're working with, it is a choice where to put your value, which is why it comes down to know your worth, know your value. Laya: Right. Anne: Even on Fiverr, you can, you know what I mean? There's a way to set your value. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And as you mentioned, it is a real thing. There are some agents that will refuse to necessarily look your way if you are involved. And that is with some of the pay-to-plays because that is a brand alignment. And that is something as a business -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- you make that choice, whether you want to align your brand with another brand. And that's why, again, it's that whole kind of -- it's another level of control that's removed from you. If you are choosing to align yourself with a pay-to-play, then make sure that your business and ethical values line up together. And you know what? It is a real thing to other people that may affect your career, agents, casting directors, production houses, they may make a judgment based upon your affiliation. And so that is something to absolutely consider whether or not you want to do that. But at the end of the day, right, we all have the choice of what to do and come on, I'm going to get very real and very honest. Back in the day when I was just starting out in the industry, like, as you mentioned, sometimes we used the pay-to-plays to kind of practice. Sometimes we used to understand the industry better. And a lot of times, well, you know, in the beginning, I might've taken jobs that were under the GVAA rate guide. Laya: For sure. Anne: I'm just going to admit it. I think we all do. It's like one of those things that you hide and that you don't ever, just don't mention it because there are people out there saying don't bring the value of the industry down. And I get that. Laya: Of course. Anne: But here's the deal. It's going to happen in every industry, not just ours. Laya: Yeah. Anne: There's always the bottom feeders. And so, you know, it's nice to say we band together, and we know our worth. I think that's the general moral, like, takeaway from that is just know your worth. Know that you're worth more than if you're like, oh my God, I should only because I'm just beginning charge a little bit. No, you know, you've made an investment in your career. You are worth just as much as me, who's had 20 years experience, I'm just saying, when it comes down to it, so know your worth. I think that's the most important thing, and pay-to-plays, they're a viable option, viable option for you, BOSSes. Laya: Yeah. You can make your choices. You know, you don't have to audition for everything. Anne: Yep. Laya: You don't have to put your name in the hat for everything. Just like you don't have to audition for everything that your agent sends. Just like you don't have to say yes to every opportunity a client brings you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's really your choice and who is anybody else to judge on whether or not that makes sense for your business. So I'm so glad we talked about this. Anne: Me too. Laya: I feel like there are many different avenues when it comes to pay-to-plays. I think like we summed up, it all comes down to doing what's best for your business -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- at the time. And the, you know, the pace that's right for your business. Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and for all of us, that's different. So it was a great conversation. Anne: Yeah. We could probably, we could probably go on and on and on about this, but yeah. Laya: Yes. Anne: Awesome conversation, BOSSes. So those pay-to-plays are an option for you. Again, do what's best for you and your business. And hey, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to another business who is upping my value here and upping our value for the VO BOSS podcast. And that is ipDTL. You guys can learn to connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and we'll see you next week. Laya: Thanks. Anne: Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Just in case you were wondering, you definitely wear all the hats now. In today's modern at-home recording world, you're the voice, engineer, customer service department, and tech wizard of each session; and some of those hats can get pretty cumbersome. In this episode, Anne and Laya discuss what it takes to be a BOSS in the booth, and how to maximize your potential success with tools, tech, and processes that work. It's not enough to just have a great voice or be an excellent performer anymore, but being a #VOBOSS in your booth is achievable. Learn how in this episode, jam-packed with ideas from these savvy bosses… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest co-host BOSS Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya, how are you? Laya: I'm great. Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing good. It's been a hectic week in the booth here, which is a good thing. I'm very grateful about that, but hectic in terms of I had clients who are asking a lot of me. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Not just voicing. Laya: Aren't they always? Anne: Yeah. Not just voicing in the booth, but they wanted playback. They wanted to invite the client in. And so I thought it would be a good day to talk about how to be the BOSS in the booth and handle these, handle the tech, handle these situations when a lot is being requested of us these days. Laya: So much, you know. Gone are the days of just stepping into the studio and all you have to do is focus on your acting -- Anne: Remember that? Laya: -- the copy and what it feels like to deliver, you know, the message. Now you have to have all the hats on -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- simultaneously while keeping your cool and still delivering an outstanding performance. And it is harder than we realize -- Anne: Oh my gosh -- Laya: -- especially when the going gets tough. Anne: Yeah. And shout-out, okay, before anything else, a big shout-out to all the studios out there -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and pre-pandemic too. Like I always appreciated studios and sometimes even more so now, you never realized what a luxury it is to walk into a studio and to be directed. Laya: Yes, I miss it. Anne: Right? It is a wonderful thing. And I think there's always a place for studios, but during the pandemic, when we had to kind of up our game and get our tech in place and be able to engineer and do all that, oh, that was tough. So thank you to all of those studios. Some of my favorite studios shut down, and it's so sad, and I hope that they, you know, we're now coming back to a different place. I'm so glad when I see people in studios, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy to be back in studio, seeing people, so. Laya: Well, and it's true because even the engineers -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- like I have great respect for these engineers and the sound designers that are manning the board and the client in one ear. Anne: Yup. Laya: And they've got another client patched in from somewhere else. And they have really been the lead for all these years -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- to really help craft a comfortable setting for -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so many of us that are dealing with our own insecurities or -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- our own demands or our own needs that are happening on every angle of the table or the studio. And so I have a whole new respect having really had to shift that in house, but now it's, you know, it's a new skill learned, and I really haven't seen anywhere where you can learn the art of how to be your own BOSS in the booth -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- so this should be an interesting conversation. Anne: Well, I think, first of all, you have to educate yourself on some of these technologies that are -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- that may be required of you. So number one, first of all, you've got to connect to a studio if you're doing a live direct, right? Or you have to be able to connect a client to be able to hear you. And so -- Laya: Yeah, your studio, right? Anne: Yeah. There are a lot of ways to do that. I know that prior to the pandemic, we were doing, a lot of people were doing stuff via Skype, and then Zoom kind of became a thing. I've had people connect via Zoom. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'm going to give a shout-out to, you know, our sponsor ipDTL, because I've always been able to connect other people to me via ipDTL and a very easy -- Laya: Yeah, flawlessly. Anne: Flawlessly, seamlessly, in a wonderful -- and the cool thing is, is that I even have a phone number, like my ipDTL, somebody can call a phone number and connect up with me via ipDTL. So on the other end, if you've got a client who's not technical -- Laya: Yep. Anne: -- at the very least, just give them a phone number and they can connect. Laya: Always. Anne: Now -- Laya: That's awesome. I didn't realize that about them. Good share, for sure. Anne: Yeah. Laya: For sure. Anne: But even before that, if you want to get even more elementary, right -- Laya: Of course. Anne: -- I used to have people connect to me in the studio by having my phone and earbuds. And so I'd have them call my cell phone, put my earbuds in my ear, and then my headphones over, right, my ears. Laya: Oh wow. Anne: And they would be in my ear. And it was like before you had to do a complicated -- there were people that would talk about having complicated phone patch in to your studio. And then thank goodness for cell phones with earbuds. Laya: Right. We still call it phone patch -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- but it's like, we're actually, we've upped the tech a little bit. Right? Anne: Yup. Laya: It's not necessarily a phone, but yeah, you're right. There's so many clients and partners out there that need to pass it on to somebody that isn't used to this program, you know, is used to just going into a studio and letting somebody else handle it. So you gotta make it easy for them with something as simple as a phone number -- Anne: Yeah. Exactly. Laya: -- or a Zoom link or something that they're used to. You got to meet them where they are. Anne: Yeah. I think that's your client non-technical person that needs to be able to hear what you're doing with their copy -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- is a phone patch, the cell phone number, the Zoom connection, Skype connection. And that's just something that you want to make sure that as a talent, when they are connected, they are either muted when you are obviously voicing the copy or, you know, you are muting them so that you're not getting the feedback. Or even if they're in your ear, you don't want that to bleed through. So -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- make sure that you have a good mute system or you know how to mute clients when you are speaking the copy. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And that I would say the very elemental client connect to us in our studio, those are some viable methods. Now what about connecting to studios? We have a couple of different options here. Laya: Yeah, we do. And I even want to go back a step if, if that's all right with you, Anne. Anne: Sure. Laya: Because I found that more and more of my clients who are used to into a studio may not be used to connecting now virtually with a studio. And so they're just coming straight to me as the voice talent saying like, how do we get this done? And so I offer a few solutions, right? I say, you know, um, I have multiple connectivity options. You can connect with me via the digital methods, which would be Skype, Google Hangouts, Zoom -- funny story as a side, I offered just to Zoom and Skype to a client that works with Google. And so they were like -- Anne: Oh wow. Laya: -- oh no, we do Google Hangouts. And I was like, oh yeah, of course -- Anne: Got to offer that. Laya: That's now, don't want to offend Google. So of course that's in the mix or phone patch, you know, I say, if you've got a conference line -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- but right from the jump I say, you know, or I would prefer to connect with a studio of your choice, or I can recommend one for SourceConnect or ipDTL -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- or anything like that that makes it easy on them. So I first put it in their court when approached with it, because I do find that so many times, they're like, uh, how do we do this? You know, at least that was the case in the very beginning. Anne: Well, I want to add to that list, in addition to your visual hangouts, if they just need an audio hangout, there's also Bodalgo Call. There's also -- Laya: Yes. Anne: Right? That they can just connect up audibly. And by the way, I had some international clients that Zoom did not work. And so they had to use Skype. And that was the only thing that -- Laya: Skype is another one, yeah. Anne: -- will work. Really depends on certain protocols, I know, of security. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so one was Skype. Another person could only connect via Zoom. The other, if it's audio only, it could be, but Bodalgo Call. There's also Open Connection. I'm trying to think what else is -- I think now, um, I'm just trying to think. There is a new capability of I -- maybe it's Mac iOS that you can connect an audio call. I'm gosh, I'm now, I'm going to, I'm going to go crazy trying to think of it. But anyways, there are those other options where if you just need an audio connection where they listen in, you can offer that, where they don't have to dial a number, but they can join in via computer. Laya: Yes. Anne: And there's audio options for any of these. Laya: Oh for sure there is. Anne: Yeah. So obviously if you don't have to have video, which I recommend, to be honest with you. I don't know if I really want people that in my booth, you know, when I'm performing -- Laya: I agree with you. Anne: -- like you don't have to look at me. Laya: I agree with you. In fact, I want to touch on that a little bit, because in addition to that, like I hear Zoom and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to like, look presentable. Anne: Gotta do my hair. Laya: But a couple of key points there for me have been, well first, I'll ask them what their preferred connectivity, but I'll asterisk with, if you find that playback during our session is going to be essential -- Anne: Oh yes. Laya: -- for decision-making with your client -- some clients are just like, no, just send me -- I just want to listen in. And they're very low hassle, I don't know. Anne: Yep. Laya: They're easy to deal with. And so that you've worked with them in the past. It's no big deal. They just want to listen in. And sometimes they've got a lot of people on the line, and a lot of personalities and they definitely want playback. And I said, well, hey, unless we're connecting to a studio, which can absolutely engineer that -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- the only way that my capabilities are going to allow playback are through Zoom. I haven't found any other playback capabilities, albeit I haven't looked very hard, but I'm like you, have an Apollo. I use Adobe Audition. And I have found that the only thing I can do playback on is through Zoom, if they're not using SourceConnect, of course. What are your options? Have you found any? Anne: So that's really interesting because I have an Apollo, and I use Twisted Wave. So my Apollo acts as a virtual audio output device -- Laya: Interesting. Anne: -- because I can play it within Twisted Wave, and they'll be able to hear it, which is something I didn't have until I got the Apollo. Other interfaces, they did not act as that. There's some software that you can load on your computer that can act as a virtual audio output device, like Sound Flower. The other thing too, if I need to play back for a client or a studio, I use ipDTL, which allows me to -- Laya: Right, perfect. Anne: -- play it back. But it's always like, oh, can we get playback? And I'm like, all right, but it's the raw audio. Laya: Yeah, I haven't cleaned it. Anne: I haven't edited anything out. But that's my paranoid, non-engineer, you know -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- going, oh my God, all right, I can play it back, but you're going to hear that mouth or something. Laya: And those curveballs can really throw you off your performance games. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it's important to know all these avenues. And I'm so glad you pointed out those playback options. It might just be in my lack of knowledge or education -- Anne: ipDTL. Laya: -- on the matter. So I'm going to look that up, but yeah, of course. So I'm going to offer that. They're my partner now too. Anne: But if I had my choice, if I had my choice, if I am on the line with a studio, and I'm connected via ipDTL, SourceConnect, Connection Open, and I think there's another high quality audio connection option out there right now. Forgive me that I can't think of it right now, but ipDTL and SourceConnect are the two big ones, but I -- Laya: And SessionLink, I think I've done -- Anne: Oh, SessionLink. Laya: Yep. Anne: That's it. That's the one I was thinking of. So those are options when you want to connect up to a studio, and when that happens, I love it because the studio engineer can typically do the playback. Laya: Same, same. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I'm like, yes, I can finally just focus on me -- Anne: Being an actor. Laya: Yes. Uh, I wish buyers knew what a better performance they probably get -- Anne: Right? Laya: -- and a smoother transition when they get, when you're dealing with a studio and an engineer. It really does take the pressure off. So let's talk about what happens when it doesn't go so well. Anne: You're flustered. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So number one, I'm going to say this, just from experience and just from a tech experience as well. Not just voice over, but being, being a techhead for 20 years, always have a backup plan -- Laya: Always. Anne: -- because things can fail. Connections can fail. I've been noticing recently there's been some conversations about one of the providers not working so well. I've had my days where, you know, things just happen. Like ipDTL is slow or weird or something doesn't connect, or SourceConnect, right? It's just not working the way -- maybe SourceConnect Now. Oh, that's the other one, by the way, they can do playback, probably, SourceConnect Now. Laya: Okay. Anne: So those things, what do you do if one thing doesn't work? You always have to have your backup. And you know, in the heat of the moment when the client is there, and you don't know when you can reschedule that session, you certainly don't want your interface failing. You don't want your Internet network to fail. So if you can have backup points all along the way, meaning what if your microphone, I don't know. All of a sudden your microphone like dies, right? Do you have another microphone? Can you swap it out quickly? Do you have another audio interface? Do you have another network, Internet network, like a backup Internet connection? Those are things that I think as a professional, you need to have those in place. So that during an important session, usually when it's a live directed session, I'm going to say it's probably a pretty important, not that our self-directed sessions aren't important, but when it's a live directed session, there's that added pressure. You've got the client usually on the line or the studio on the line that you're trying to make a good impression. Like, hey, I got this. And you certainly don't want to seem any less than professional or prepared -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- when something bad might happen. So that's my first, my first advice. Laya: I can't agree with you more. And let me just share from experience. Anne: Yes. Laya: First of all, it happens to all of us -- Anne: It does. Laya: -- and we're all human. So just admitting calmly and in control to whoever may be affected -- Anne: Calmly. Laya: -- you know, we're having an issue -- exactly. Oh my God, freaking out, is not the way to go with your clients. But if you can admit, hey, you know what, I'm experiencing something that's unusual right now. Give me just a few minutes. And if we can break for five, I'll get right back to you. Sometimes -- Anne: You are like the epitome of calm. I'm just saying, like the way you just said that, I just love it. I'm not quite sure I could say it so coolly, but you just -- that was awesome. Laya: You know, just give me a moment. Anne: Just a moment. Laya: Get your meditation voice on. No, so to me, I've actually had this happen on two occasions where the power surge has gone out, like a brown-out in the middle of the afternoon for no reason. There's not even -- it's like a rolling blackouts. You know, sometimes, city's done -- that has happened to me once before. And let me tell you, I had a plan and I had a backup. Now I wasn't able to use the Apollo because that's powered, but I have -- Sound Devices has another DAW system that I use. And I was able to use -- my power was backed up -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- and flipped on a candle. And I was able to conduct a session -- Anne: Careful in the booth with that candle. Laya: Exactly. Right, right. Having a power outage. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, something as crazy as that. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And of course everyone understands, but you know, they may have a lot riding on the session as well, under deadline, with a new client and what have you. So you got to have a backup. Anne: Can I just say that absolutely the power is super important, and you may not even realize until you're live, right, and with a client, your Internet connection failing -- Laya: Yes. Yep. Anne: -- or especially when you're connected wifi. And if you're connected directly to a studio or to a client, it really does help to have that dependable, reliable Internet connection that doesn't have dropouts. Laya: Yep. Anne: And wifi, I'm sorry, guys. I know wifi is convenient and easy and not a lot of people are necessarily technical or know, but it helps to be directly connected -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to your router, to your Internet at all possible costs because that is going to be one less point of failure. So. Laya: Yep, hard-wired in is the way to go for sure. As soon as you can, uh, establish that connection with your studio or with your home Internet, and even upgrade to a business Internet system where you've got more bandwidth, hopefully you, you know, maybe even got fiber in your area. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: That's just some key stuff. And that way you can use, if -- as your backup can be your wifi hotspot on your cell phone, if need be. That's happened to me before as well. Anne: Oh yeah, that's always my second. My second Internet connection is my wifi hotspot, which is great to have that Internet connection. Now, what about, okay, mentally, right? Technically, look, you just have to be prepared with backups, and you have to understand hopefully enough to know how to disconnect, reconnect. I always, by the way, if I'm going to finish up on the technical aspect of being prepared, take a picture of your connections into your DAW and you know what I mean? And, and into, into the whole booth, right? Your monitor's connected this way, your microphones are connected here into your audio device. And so take pictures of the back of it -- Laya: Great tip. Anne: -- label your cables and -- Laya: Oh, label my cables, that's absolutely key. Anne: Label your cables. Laya: Label the cable should be like hashtag. Anne: Label the cables. Laya: I love it. Anne: And also, well, computer backup too doesn't it hurt. So always have that second. And I use my travel rig as my backup, right? So I have a laptop, and I've got a different interface, and I've got another microphone at the ready pretty much so that I can go there. And, but if you don't, make sure that you're taking pictures of how things are connected. 'Cause even me being a technical person, you know, in the heat of the moment, you want to make sure that you can react quickly. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So now mentally, I had an experience where I had a live directed session with a very large client. One of the clients that -- a client I've always -- a dream client that I've always wanted to be connected to. And I actually experienced an engineer who was trying to, I don't even know how to say it, was trying to impress the client in his own way and made me do like, I'm going to say, three takes of every single line of a fairly large medical narration project. And it became very stressful for me because every single -- and I didn't know, he had planned on doing three takes of every line, and this what should have been an hour session turned into three and a half hours. And by the time that was done, I was exhausted. And mentally I was really frustrated, and it was starting to affect my performance. So -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- mentally you need to be prepared for that kind of a pressure. And sometimes I say, it's good to have a practice session with somebody. If you've got a close connection, even a voiceover talent that you are -- have an accountability group or something, do some test sessions and have things go wrong, and see how you can react. It does help at least the preparedness or feeling better, because mentally, if your performance is suffering, that's tough. What are your -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- do you have some suggestions, Laya -- Laya: Oh gosh, sure. Anne: -- for mental, you know, how to recover mentally? Laya: Yeah. Well, sure, and again, that happens to everybody also, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Even the pros of the pros, the top people -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- there's always sometimes just somebody in the group that's either trying to establish themselves -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- because they're posturing for whatever reason is going on for them, maybe they haven't had the best day, or they're trying to prove themselves -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- in the room. And you know what? You just have to remember, you're the hired gun. Anne: Yep. Laya: You're the hired -- you, you're just there to listen and just take orders -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- and leave your ego at the door -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- and just try to serve them and the copy and the client to the best of your ability. But I have been in that situation several times before, and it really doesn't come down to -- if you can remember, it really is not about your performance. Sometimes it's easy to recognize these people sometimes in a session. Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: You know, first sometimes even taking a step back, there's a lot of people coming at you. And so when I'm in a self-directed session or not a self-directed, but when I'm engineering the session myself, and I'm not connected to a studio, and if I am, sometimes there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and there's a lot of people coming at you with all different opinions. Anne: Sure. Laya: And sometimes I'll listen to them all. If it calms down, you know, maybe it's bubbling up for a minute or two -- if it calms down, I'm able to get the focus again. I usually come back and say, okay, so-and-so, so tell me, this is how I thought I heard that. This is my translation of that. But to keep it super clear, moving forward, do you think I can get that direction from just one person? And sometimes it's a reframe, and that sets a neutral tone -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- for all the personalities that are on the phone. Right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so, because that can mess with you mentally as well. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: And so I think establishing that and like re-getting control of the session, that can help when all those personalities are chiming it, or they're asking for multiple retakes, and you're just, you're like, well, but I'm doing it. You know? You start to second guess yourself. Anne: That's the thing that's such an -- I'm glad you brought that up because it's so important when they're asking for a different take. And sometimes the people that are asking for it, they don't know how to ask for it. Laya: Yep. They don't know the language to use. Anne: They don't know the language. Laya: Right? Anne: And hey, sometimes even people that do know the language don't know how to ask for that. And so you have to be very aware that this is something that will happen to you. And at one point, if they're asking you for so many retakes, then your confidence level starts to really fluctuate. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I like in my head, I'm like, oh my God, did I not give them what they want? Well, I just gave them that. What, how did that not work? Really? And so that sort of conversation that you have in your head, that can really start to affect your performance. My go-to is breathing, just breathe, you know, in through the nose and exhale. I just heard my nose [phonetic]. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Breathing in deeply. And that helps a lot. Laya: Even on top of that shaking, like sometimes it's okay to say, hey, you know what? Anne: I need a minute. Laya: I needed just a moment. If you can take a break for just a few minutes, let me shake it off real quick -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and come right back to you with a fresh set of ears on my own, you know, in my own headphones. Anne: Yup. Laya: And maybe that will help. Anne: Yeah. Laya: 'Cause I want to make sure that you're getting exactly what you want out of this session. Anne: Exactly. Laya: And as long as you continue to put it back on them, but are humble and human enough to say, you know what? I just need a moment. Um, let me get some water, step out for just a second. And I'll be right back with you. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And sometimes that's enough to break up even them in their own headspace. Maybe they didn't even realize that's like a good way to send a signal. Like, you're overdoing it. Anne: Yup. Laya: And the talent needs to regroup. And that's a very professional thing to do. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And it's totally acceptable. Anne: And sometimes, sometimes they'll either say too much or they won't say anything and you'll be like, oh, okay. Or they'll just, you'll do a number of retakes. And then there'll be like, okay. And then you'd be like, oh my God, I didn't give them what they need. That's it. I'm done. They're never hiring me again. That's the other kind of like, self-deprecating language that might happen -- Laya: Oh, for sure. Anne: -- in your head, is like, oh, okay. They didn't react. And so what are they thinking? And so that can make it a little bit scary -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- in your head. So just, you know, for me, I love how, you know, let's take a moment. That always helps me and the breathing, and understand that sometimes you may be giving them exactly what they need, and they're just not responding. Laya: Yeah. Maybe they're distracted. They're something else. Anne: That's right. Laya: They're scrolling on their phone or another email's come through. Anne: That's right. Laya: That can be a challenge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- when you're working virtually like this, you don't know what the other person is experiencing. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I remember one time recently I was on a call with two producers that were partners in two different states, and they clearly did not gel up. They were neck and neck. Anne: Yup. Laya: One of the producers had her kids screaming in the background. So it's in those moments that you have to kind of quickly empathize and identify where the energy source is and the chaos that may be happening for them. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Bring the calm to the mic and say, you know, what, what I'm hearing from you is this, what I'm hearing from you is this. Would you agree that it's more like this, and you want -- this is the end result here? And then also, like you said, kind of command the room to the best of your ability. You know? Anne: Yeah. Laya: Sometimes it's easy to say, to get the best performance today and I want to deliver what you want, I'm going to need everybody to mute their microphones, and let me get one source of direction or feedback going. And if they don't give it to you, like you're saying, say, okay, so can I get some feedback? You're welcome to ask the questions. And I think sometimes we forget that we can take control of those sessions. Anne: Yeah. Laya: It's one of the most empowering things to feel when you finally feel confident enough to do so. Anne: And the other thing too is just to know that these things do happen, right? It's so hard to predict what can happen in the booth when you have multiple people, what kind of like -- did you mention -- what kind of day they're having, too many people like that are hearing it differently than their head. Remember that we all hear the copy differently in our heads. The best thing you need to do is try to align that sound to what the client wants, right? And that client can differ. You could have a, I don't know, you could have a one, a marketing director or the, that hears it one way. And you could have a producer that hears it a different way. And as you mentioned, the two are clashing, and they might be at the same time directing you or even not. Let's say you've done the session. And then they come back and ask you for something different. So understand that that's absolutely something that can happen. And it has nothing to do with your performance. Laya: Right. Anne: And you could have given them exactly what they asked for. And a lot of times, I say this all the time, the way that you got the job is not always the way that you'll be directed to do the job once called upon to do it. Laya: So much so. Anne: Right? Laya: Right? That happens all the time. Anne: Because you have a different director, you have a different set of ears, and you have somebody that hears it differently directing you. So it is always very subjective to the person that is directing. And also, I'm just going to say, if you get the check, that's it. Consider it an amazing day. Laya: Yep. Anne: Consider you've given the client what they've wanted. It may not be what you agree or think is the way it should be. Right? But you've given the client what they wanted. And that's the most important thing. Laya: Yeah. And I would say that the -- in the end, no matter how the session goes, I always like to close with a big thank you. Thank you. I -- first of all -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- I write, and I forgot to say this in the very beginning, but I've always got a notepad with me. As people are making their introductions, I always write down everyone's name so that I -- Anne: Good idea. Laya: -- call of them by name throughout the session, to the best of my ability I can call the director or the producer, whoever's calling the shots by their name, repeat their names again and again so they know that you're very focused on who you're dealing with, even though you're not in the same space. Anne: Sure. Laya: And then at the end close by being, you know, thank you very much for having me. I'm so proud that you selected me for this project. I really hope to have the opportunity to work with you again in the future. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Good luck on your project and thanks again. Anne: And bam. Laya: And then I think the engineer, if there is one and, you know, wrap it in a nice bow -- Anne: Yep, yep. Laya: -- so they know no matter what, you left with a big smile -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- and very grateful for their time -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- and for selecting you. And then, you know, maybe they'll remember, you know, it, wasn't just an awkward, like, okay, thanks. Thanks, guys. Bye. Anne: Yeah. End it professionally gracefully, and you know, again, it's one of those things, then don't stay too long either at the very end. Laya: No, yeah. Anne: Don't expect -- there should be nothing, except thank you. It was a pleasure working with you and good luck with the project. They do not owe you anything else. They don't owe you praise. They don't owe you, hey, well, you know, we'll contact you for the next job. They owe you nothing -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- because that is a job. And ultimately, if you've done it to their satisfaction, you'll get paid for it. And so don't be, don't be emotionally affected by any of it at the end. Just close it warmly with a nice little bow. I like that. Wrap it up with a bow and onto the next one. Laya: Yep. And I would say the other thing, and I've -- I made this mistake early on. I realized very quickly it was inappropriate, but the end of the session is not a good time to say, hey, I'd love a copy of that spot when you're done. Anne: Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes, yes, exactly. Laya: Unless you really know the person -- Anne: Good point. Laya: -- or like, it's just, you one-on-one, I'd love to see what you come up with. You know, when this is thing is done. Anne: Yep. Laya: If it's not that easy and comfortable, that is not the time to be asking for anything. Just bow out gracefully. Anne: I totally agree with you right there. Totally. That makes you look a little bit, I don't know, desperate, maybe? Laya: Hungry. Yeah, a little hungry. Anne: And I would say it's a good opportunity for you maybe a month or two down the road when you know the spot's been released to maybe reconnect and then say, hey, thanks so much. Just wanted to say it was a wonderful opportunity. And by the way, if, at that point, if, hey, if you wouldn't mind, is there a way that I might be able to see the finished product? I love it when engineers and producers send me the -- that's the best when they send it to me when it's done. And I'm like, oh my God, like too few people do that. Laya: Yeah. I wish they knew how valuable that was, that currency is. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You know? Anne: I have a couple of really awesome producers that I work with who will just send me the spot, like on, I don't have to ask for it. They send me the spot when it's done. And I'm like, oh, this is so awesome. So that gives you that permission to share it. And just, it's just a good thing to see your finished product. But -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- yeah. Laya: And I would like to mention too, that part of that follow-up process, only when appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- but it helps to write down those names because a -- Anne: Sure. Laya; -- few weeks later, or even a few days later, in some instances -- you got to feel it out and trust your gut -- if it was appropriate for you to make contact, meaning your agent didn't book that for you -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and there's not a middleman or anything like that -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- having their name or their studio affiliation, it'll at least allow you to find them or follow their studio on Instagram. Sometimes we are given the name of the studio or their production company that's working with it or the agency that's creating the piece -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- not necessarily the client. Great time to make a followup connection, be it LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, and follow their work, continue to champion them and cheer them on. Anne: Yes. Laya: Or just drop them a line on LinkedIn and say, hey, I had a great session with you last week. Just wanted to say and take care of yourself. Hope all is well. Anne: Yes. Laya: I look forward to keeping an eye on your creative output, you know, in the months to come or something like that. It's a great way to follow that up too. Anne: Excellent point about if you get this work through an agent, and I just want to reiterate this, if you get work through your agent, I strongly recommend reconnecting with your agent first, before. Laya: Yes. Anne: Like don't connect the client directly -- Laya: No. Anne: -- connect to the client directly after the job or at any point, really, if it came through your agent, because that's a relationship that that agent has worked probably for a number of days, months, years, whatever, to connect and to secure. And you don't want to just kind of go in between that. So handle that professionally. Always go through your agent if the agent is the one that set that up for, if you have any questions or if you want to connect or say, do you think it would be okay if I sent them a thank you or ask for a copy of it? So excellent point. Wow. It was a great discussion today, Laya. Laya: Yeah, love these BOSSes in the booth. Anne: BOSSes in the booth. Laya: I know our listeners are going to be able to take control of those situations -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- because all of them can crop up. But in this day, this modern times, you really need to wear multiple hats -- Anne: That's right. Laya: -- in the booth. And that comes down to client relations, to engineering, to tack -- Anne: Yep. Laya: -- to being your actor, your best performance self, all those things with eloquence and grace, and then you'll win. Anne: There you go. Laya: You know, you'll be the BOSS in the booth. Anne: Modern BOSSes in the booth. All right, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to my modern connectivity -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- through ipDTL, our sponsor. We love them. Thank you so much, ipDTL, for always connecting me with BOSSes like Laya. You too can be a BOSS connected ipDTL person. Find out more at ipdtl.com. All right, guys, have an amazing week. Laya: Thanks, everybody. Anne: We'll see you next week. Bye. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Think you need an agent to master the casting game? Think again. Anne and Laya teach you how to make the most of your VO business by building relationships that will land bookings and get you paid. They discuss pay-2-play strategies, symbiotic agent-talent relationships, reaching out to production houses, and how cultivating your SEO can get you jobs without auditioning... Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my special, special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya -- Laya: Hey. Anne: -- how are you? Laya: Anne, I'm doing awesome. How are you? Anne: You know, Laya, I'm awesome. And I just love, love, love doing these podcast episodes with you. Laya: Yes, same here. I've learned so much. I feel like -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- we've shared so much, and the feedback we've been getting from your BOSSes has been incredible. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So thank you, BOSSes, for leaning in and coming back to us with your takeaways and your modern mindsets. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: Because the whole thing has come full circle. I feel so rewarded and so grateful for this. Anne: That's right. Well, Laya and I have really been enjoying our topics of late. And I think they're very relevant. They're very relevant in terms of BOSSes wanting growth mindset for growing their businesses, growing themselves personally, growing their performances. So now let's talk about once we've been growing our skills and our assets, how are we going to get work? Laya: Yes. Anne: Let's talk about how do we get cast in these roles? How do we win these gigs? There's all sorts of wonderful things to talk about with that agents, production, houses, managers pay-to-plays, all of these things. Maybe we should just, let's have a discussion on how are we going to be getting work. Laya: Yes, it's such a good one to have, because I think if you're just now coming up in the industry, you feel like, oh, I, the first thing I got to do is I got to get an agent. That was my misconception in the very beginning, to be honest. And you know, once you've been around a little while, you realize that's nowhere near your first step. In fact, doing the work and training and getting yourself conditioned is by far the first step. And then you slowly build on that as we have talked about, and you know very well with your asset library, your image, your brand, so that when you are fully ready, and I mean fully ready, meaning you're booking and you're making money and you can present yourself as a resource, then you're going to maybe approach agents or managers. But until then, there's a lot of work to do. And there's definitely outlets to go get that work. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: So let's talk about it. Lead us in. Anne: Well, yeah. I am going to agree with you that yes, I, in the beginning I thought, oh, I need an agent right away. And that is absolutely not necessarily true at all. As a matter of fact, you have to usually prove that you've gotten some work under your belt before an agent will consider you. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: But I remember thinking, okay, so I got my demo. Now I need an agent. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So a lot of times that is something that can be put on the back burner until you, you know, assert yourself, go out there and get some work. But until you do that, you got to get that work. So how are you going to do that? Laya: Yeah. Anne: And by the way, I'll tell you that I was working full-time for years before I got my first agent. So. Laya: Yes. And I was working in the same space. You know, I was definitely making money in voice work. And I thought the agent thing was going to tip me over the balance. And that's when I knew I was going to be successful. When the reality is I book very little work through my main agents, or at least I did in the very beginning. And so you lose sight of that when you're not quite there, you feel like maybe that's going to be the cash out or the pinnacle, or that's where you want to achieve. But there's a lot of work to glean without an agent too. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And I think that's kind of where the paradigm or the shift is in the industry right now. And while a lot of the cream, you know, at the top goes to the agents or the managers, there's lots of great work out there that you can get by cultivating relationships with clients, putting yourselves out there, marketing, you know, dipping into pay-to-plays, if that's your thing. So let's dig in. Anne: So, I will say that when I started, and this is back in the day, pay-to-plays were not the same 'cause I've been in the industry for a few years now. So back when pay-to-plays first started, and I believe it was Voice123 that was the very first one, if I can remember correctly. Before that, there was kind of like freelancer.com where people would post jobs. But I think the very first pay-to-play was Voice123, which I hopped on. I was on board when they came on board, and it was actually something that was successful for me. And -- but the landscape of the pay-to-plays has changed quite a bit over the years, but that was my main source, that and other like freelance websites to get my first jobs. And as I kind of struggled and, you know, found my way through the industry, the pay-to-plays started to become a place where I could actually get clients that would become return clients. And that was super helpful to me. So I think these days, it's probably important that maybe you can dabble in the pay-to-plays, see if they work for you. Sometimes, you know, they're so congested right now that I feel that it's really that much more difficult to get work from them. However, some people are very successful at it, depending I think on the level that you're paying for. I don't think it's always necessary to get work just through the pay-to-plays, but I feel like it might be very frustrating for people just starting in the industry. Laya: Yeah. Anne: What about you? What do you think? Laya: Well, I've got a lot of information to glean on this because as we've talked about before, you know, I was, I've been doing voice work for over 20 years, but never full-time and never really taking it "seriously" until I went full-time about three years ago and ripped the band-aid off. And so my start was non-traditional in the sense that, you know, I didn't spend this long amount of time cultivating anything with training and whatnot. And so I have been a Voice123 member since 2009, I think, but I didn't optimize a profile or anything like that. I did however, dive right in and get a membership when I first went official full-time a couple of years ago, and I used it as an -- I hate to say it like this now, but it's true -- I kind of used it as a practice tool. I would never recommend that. So I can't believe I'm admitting it, but in all, you know, full disclosure, like, I didn't know what different scripts were out there. I didn't know how to play in different genres or where my voice sat best. I didn't really have an understanding. So to me, a lot of people say, don't do that because you're putting your name out there. You never know who you're going to come across, and they're going to be like, oh gosh, no, the audio is terrible, whatever. I did it because I needed to know for myself what felt right. And in doing that, it kind of opened up a lot of opportunities, a lot of ideas and a lot of awareness about myself. So for me, I probably didn't take the traditional route. And I know we could, we're going to dive into a full, deep scope of pay-to-plays at one point. Anne: We will. Laya: Today might not be the day, but just to touch on that, it is an okay place to start if you just want to see what's out there and what kind of jobs are being offered -- Anne: Right, right, agreed. Laya: -- and what kind of scripts and maybe what kind of budgets are out there. So. Anne: Well, let me admit something -- Laya: Please. Anne: -- Laya. Laya: I'm leaning in. Anne: I used it as a practice ground too. Laya: See, I'm not alone. Anne: Back in the -- see. So back in the day, like it's very true what you just said. So if you've not been in the voiceover industry, it's really hard to know like what kind of jobs are out there? What does a typical script look like? If there is such a thing. Laya: What does usage look like? Like what are they saying about it? Anne: Exactly. Laya: What's the language? Anne: What do I even, where do I even begin? Laya: Right. Anne: And so in reality it was, for me, it was a good education. Now I was also fortunate enough to book back in the day, because again, it wasn't as congested. And I also used it to kind of, oh, and I will admit this to kind of, 'cause there was no middleman back in the day -- Laya: Yeah, right. Anne: -- I was able to kind of scope it for companies that were hiring. And so I knew if there was a company that put out an audition for a corporate job or a telephony job, I would write that company name down and be on my list of things to kind of investigate. And a few months later I'd kind of put that company on my list of maybe people to contact later on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: But it really was a -- and there was no, there was nothing bad about doing that by the way. But I believe that's why there are some restrictions now on certain pay-to-plays where you can't communicate with your potential client, which, I don't think is right, to be honest with you. Laya: No. Anne: I think that they shouldn't be able to communicate so that you can get the job done. And the quality of the job is what's important. Laya: And there are some work arounds, but we'll dive into that. Anne: But that's what I'll say right now about pay-to-plays. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: So I don't think it's the horrible taboo. I think that it's a very valid reason so that you kind of understand, like what does the work look like out here in the voiceover industry? So let's talk about, we kind of dabbled just a little bit with agents. And like I said, it took me four years to get an agent. So I had gotten some work under my belt. At that time I felt comfortable submitting for agents. Remember this is, you know, 10, 10 or so years ago, and now -- Laya: It's very much, it did change. Anne: It has changed now. Laya: Like super aggressive. Right? Anne: Now you really kind of need to have a referral -- Laya: Definitely. Anne: -- to get yourself your agent and to get yourself into there. So at the time I was able to submit, but then I grew into having other people that also had that agent. I would talk to them about it. And I would, then I would just basically ask if I could refer their name and say that so-and-so told me about your agency. And I'm really excited. I really think your agency is amazing, and I'm hoping that I might be a fit for you. Laya: Right. Anne: And so that was just one way to kind of use that, that networking relationship to my advantage. Laya: I did something similar as well. Um, I was working with engineers that I admired and had a great symbiotic relationship with, and they made recommendations to agents that they traditionally cast with. So I was lucky in that sense. And then I did do some cold kind of call reach outs, email contact to some other agents that I knew that were very reputable, that were in regional markets that may have something interesting to offer, and that I could be a resource to them, of course, doing my research first, making sure there was a fit on their roster that I could fill with a unique approach or sound or skill set. And that's kind of hard to do, but also in a way it's kind of transparent. A lot of agents, uh, have their entire rosters up. And so not only do you want to make sure that you're a good fit and you're going to be a great resource for them, but that they're a great fit for you. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: You want that agent to be excited about you because unfortunately there is such a saturation right now. Maybe it's been like this a while, but with talent and with agents, and because of pay-to-plays, the opportunities have gotten spread thin. Anne: Very, very. Laya: So you, you know, where I cast this huge net at first and had lots of regional agents and was looking to have my hand in a little bit of everything, I found very quickly that that spread me thin as well. And as the auditions were overlapping, I would start to panic. Who do I give this to? You know? And then that created lack of trust and didn't create a solid foundation or relationship with those agents, because I was just sporadically submitting. And so that's a whole other thing to consider too. Anne: That's a, that's an excellent point. I will say that in the height of my getting agents, I landed myself 11 of them. And over the years, right, those agents, like you said, sometimes, I mean the workplace and the environment, has really just changed so much, even in just the last couple of years, that the work is even getting spread thin. So sometimes you will see some of the same auditions. And I realized just as you mentioned, I realized from my own self, I didn't have the time to respond to all of the agent auditions. And so I found myself kind of gravitating towards just a couple of them that I consider to be my home base and agents that, you know, we worked well together. So there's something to be said that it's not just a one-way relationship. Laya: Oh, no. Anne: It really is a two-way relationship with you and your agents, so fine tuning that and honing in on those agents, that works well for both of you, I think that's very, very important in order to really maximize your casting opportunities. Laya: For, sure. I mean, if you're a talent on a roster with 3, 4, 600 other talents, and I feel like some times there're, you know, talents getting gobbled up and it's, it's more of a numbers game for the agent and verse -- and vice versa for the talent. Um, and when the reality is just like our friendships and our personal relationships, if you can nurture them and stay true and be loyal and be consistent, they're going to know that, see that, respect that in return. And you're going to be more top of mind to that agent. Whereas if you're just sporadically hitting -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- you know, alternating between them, because you're trying to really widen your net, it's actually going to water you down, and that's going to water your name, your brand, and your voice down and the opportunities. So I also streamlined this past year in order to be fair to them in my partnership and my word and myself. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So that's very important and something to consider. Anne: And so agents, I think, for a lot of people, you have to really step back and understand your agent and their specialty. Every agent has a specialty. A lot of agents will work in the commercial broadcast around, but then there are other agents who do radio imaging. There's other agents that do animation and then other agents that specialize in promo. So knowing your agent and their specialties and what type of work you are going for or looking for, trying to get, that's important, because almost as important for me, for my genres that I book work in is not just the agents, but also casting, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Casting agencies, production houses, being on the roster on production houses and maintaining a great relationship with those people has gotten me repeat work over and over and over again. Laya: Absolutely. Anne: And I cannot stress the importance of the connection that you have with production houses and the relationship because they're submitting for you. It's almost like having an agent, right, that doesn't necessarily send out an audition, but they have clients who come to them and say, hey, I've got a medical narration or an automotive narration or any kind of corporate thing, and this is what I'm looking for. And they're the ones that will be sending out your demos or whatever it is, your past work to kind of promote you to their clients. And then basically I would just get a call that says, hey, are you available next week for this job? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. That's like the best way to get a job. Hey, are you available? Laya: The best way. Anne: You've been hired already. Laya: No audition needed. Exactly. And I got to say, I'm so glad you spoke about this because production houses are so fundamental. They are -- Anne: Yeah, they are. Laya: You know, sometimes they're using agents. Sometimes they're using managers, but sometimes they've got their own in-house team. Anne: Yup, exactly. Laya: And it's just like everybody's got to make money in this together, yes, they may be selling your voice or the voiceover element of the product at a higher fee, but maybe there's a consistent, flat rate. They tend to make your job much easier because you may not have to audition, or they've already got the engineer built in, or they already know your studio specs, your voice, your sound, et cetera. For instance, I'm an in-house talent on Pandora's and Sirius XM's roster. Shout-out to that whole incredible team -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of audio slayers over there. Because as I've gotten to know them over the last few years, they know my voice, they just cast you -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- where they know that your voice is going to sit right so they've got the best output and you're going to give them the best output. It's a trust relationship. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: It is so valuable. And while sometimes the rate can be a little bit lower than your standard GVAA, you know, industry rate that you might just be putting out there for usage, the repetition and the ease of work -- Anne: And volume. Laya: -- and the volume is huge. And that should not be overlooked or turned your nose up at. It's again, very, very beneficial for all parties. Anne: I have been on a couple of rosters for over 10 years already. And it's just, there's so much to be said for just, oh, by the way, are you available for this job? Laya: Yes. Anne: And it's the same kind of thing with repeat clients who just come back to you over and over again, where you don't have to audition. I just had, again, I've got work this weekend. I had somebody email me say, and I haven't heard from them in years, but they're like, hey, are you available to do this job? And I'm like, well, hey, yeah, it's great to hear from you again. I love it. And one thing I'll also say outside of the production houses and casting houses is to also, and this is not necessarily a mass casting, but your website and your SEO of your business can also help to cast yourself without an audition. Laya: Sure can. Anne: So I'll get a lot of people who will just send me an email inquiry and say, here's my script. How much will that cost? Laya: Yup. Anne: And the cool thing again is that I don't have to audition for that. So what I love is that type of casting. So. Laya: Yeah, and that happens for me as well, not as often as I would like. I'm sure your SEO is very robust, Anne. Anne: I've been at it for a while. Laya: I have a feeling. Exactly. But that does happen. And I think that, you know, what's really a blessing is that that shows that your work or that your body of work or that your presence is definitely garnering some attention. Now we can dive much deeper in how to make that even more attractive or build the SEO. And that's for another episode -- Anne: Yup, absolutely. Laya: But what's so great is that there are so many different buckets. Anne: Yup. Laya: In addition to those production houses, your own website, pay-to-plays, agents, we can also talk about, a little bit about the manager model, which is not new, certainly not in VO or in acting. It's evolved to kind of fit the new VO landscape and how work is coming in. I have enjoyed a recent success, a series of successes with ACM, the team over there, Mark Guss and the whole crew has been incredibly beneficial for me. But that manager model is very different as well. Anne: Yup. Laya: Now, for those that aren't aware where the agent is, usually if you're cast for something union or non-union has usually a different percentage that the agent gets paid. And that varies depending on whether you're union status or not -- Anne: Correct. Laya: -- or whether the casting house, the production company is paying over base, which again, another conversation. Now managers model is where they do acquire 10% or there's a percentage of your entire work picture, whether you book or not. And so that's definitely something to consider for those that are maybe way, you know, into their career or advancing or looking to level up from an agency model or add to their agency model. It's definitely not for everybody. I have had some great success with it, but it's again about nurturing those relationships and making sure you're giving as much as they're receiving and vice versa. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And in order for the whole relationship to work, it has to be, I want to say, almost 50, 50, right? You have to work with them -- Laya: Absolutely. Anne: -- as much as they have to work with you because you're giving 10% of the entire income that's coming in. I think that they work harder for you in terms of getting you work from various agents that they're working with. Or if they're, I would say clients that they're working with. Laya: Yeah. I will say this. And I, people ask me all the time, how has it been, you know, you shifted and you know, what are you getting out of it? I don't know, it's just a lot, you know, it seems like a big investment, and it is. But I will say this, like in the first month of being with ACM and this may not be the case for everyone, but I had more communication and opportunities and direct one-on-one communication. There's eight managers on my team over there. I had more communication in that one month than I did in three years with nine agents combined. So to me, the value was there, but it was also in part by me putting the effort in and making it a point to connect with everyone and to set meetings and to have that influence in my business because I'm paying for it. Anne: Well -- Laya: It's a mutual investment. Anne: And that's the thing, if you're -- okay. So here, if you look at it from a business standpoint, right? Why the manager model should work, right? If it didn't work, if you were not getting a lot out of your relationship, right, if you weren't getting a lot of opportunities, if you weren't booking, you wouldn't be happy with the management, right? Because you'd be paying, right, for all the work that you did. Laya: You'd demand more. Sure. Anne: That doesn't necessarily look good or sound good for the manager, and the manager, for them to keep their brand, right, and that they're a successful manager, right, they don't want to have an unhappy person. So the relationship, I think, has to be working both ways, and -- Laya: And I think that can happen there. Anne: -- you have to make money for them, they make money for you. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So. Laya: And same goes for the agents. And same goes -- a lot of people say, well, you would pay that. Or would you pay a membership fee on pay-to-plays -- like, everybody's got to make money -- Anne: Right. Laya: -- and can make money in this business. Anne: Exactly. Laya: It just has to become down to what investment is worth your while. Anne: Right. Laya: Is it working with a production house where your overall total fee is lower -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but you have the volume and the repetition and the ease of work? Or is it investing in a management company where you have opportunities like you've never seen before? Anne: Right. Laya: Or is it an agency model? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, all of those things I think can work for you, as long as you do the work, and you present yourself fully to that partnership and being very aware of everybody's role, and set your expectation too -- Anne: Right, right. Laya: -- as to what they can or cannot do for you. Anne: And just like in any relationship, if it doesn't work for you -- this is including managers, agents, pay-to-plays, even a client -- Laya: Production houses, clients, exactly. Anne: If that relationship does not work for you, then you have the opportunity -- which is what I love. We're entrepreneurs. We are our own business. We can absolutely step away from that, which is -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- what is it, is that, that's the whole beauty of being an entrepreneur, right? We don't have to work -- Laya: Yeah, you're in control. Exactly. Anne: We are in control. We don't have to work with a client that is not necessarily giving us a positive investment, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Or is working for us. So that's what the really wonderful thing is. And no matter how you go out there to get your opportunities -- and I think it's always, for me, it's, it can't just be one. Laya: No. Anne: Can't put all your eggs in one basket, right? It's a combination. I have agents, I have production houses. I have relationships with my clients. I have a good SEO on my website. And I have, I'm literally trying to provide myself with the best opportunities in order to be cast so that I can be a successful voiceover business. Laya: Yeah, that's right, Anne. And even if you're -- I would just say this too. I know there's a lot of scrutiny about every one of these avenues, right? And it's really all in how you use it to your advantage, and what your mindset is, and whether or not you're good with where your role is. I would say with pay-to-plays a lot of times, just having a presence on those pay-to-play sites, whether you're active or not, their SEO is going to be far greater than most of our -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- far greater than any of us can most -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- likely invest in our own SEO resources. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So even just to have your name and your demos up -- Anne: A profile. Laya: -- a profile, that in itself, I can't tell you how many opportunities I've gotten by just being on Voices or Voice123, by someone that found -- Anne: Having the profile. Laya: Exactly. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Because that drove me as a talent with a profile on a huge databank where people that are casting are looking for the quick solution. They find somebody they like, then they Google your name. Then they go to your website and they reach out to you. And I have gotten more jobs like that than probably any other avenue combined, to be honest with you. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: And it hasn't even needed to be an audition or fight about usage, et cetera, and these low rates of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, just let it work for you and be the driver that you need to get your name and your voice out there. Anne: Right. And however it works for you -- and to be honest with you, I actually -- not even do I have a profile on some of these pay-to-plays that I'm not necessarily active on, but I've also shared blog posts, meaning I have invited them to be a guest blogger on my blog. Laya: Great idea. Anne: So we have backlinks to one another. So it's kind of a really interesting way, but it kind of is like you're talking with a pay-to-plays. They do kind of have the SEO game going on with those terms that people might be searching for. And so that might make you think, whether you agree or not, to maybe just put a profile up there. Doesn't mean, you know, right now I'm personally just don't have -- I think I belong to two of them officially, but I don't have any time to necessarily audition. I don't remember the last time I've auditioned for a pay-to-play. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I also have pay-to-plays that I'm not a member of, but I do have a profile on. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So it all works towards people knowing who I am, what kind of business -- you know, it's all about who are you and what do you do for a living? Oh, she's a voiceover artist. I'm looking for one of those. Laya: Yes. Anne: So that all kind of plays into the game of getting that work, which is what we're supposed to do. That's our business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Right? Getting that work. Laya: And I would say one more thing about just where to get work and how do you start, especially if you're in the startup or the bootstrapping stage of your BOSS business. You know, just letting everyone you know, know that you're down, down to talk down to, you know, do their work, do their IVR, do their phone system, voice their scratch track. Sometimes getting in with production houses is just as easy as saying, hey, no charge. I'm here to do your scratch tracks for you. You know, just so we can start building relationship. You can get to know my style and then potentially cast me in the future for something, but sometimes just letting people know what you do and what you're about. We often talk about how to use social, and Facebook for me, isn't necessarily a business driver. Anne: Right. Laya: But you bet that everybody I in my network knows that I talk for a living. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Laya: Because you never know when the opportunity is going to come up -- Anne: Even in your personal network. Laya: -- for something that they need absolutely. So don't overlook that. Anne: Yeah. And even if you say, well, I don't really advertise on my personal, right, or my Facebook or my social media, in reality, just you being you is -- because remember our brands are so personal -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: --- that you are an aspect of your business. I just wrote a blog on that. You know, it's something to always consider when you say put pen to paper or type to the post, always consider that, you know, there are eyeballs looking at that, and knowing that you are a voiceover artist, and this is what you do for a living. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So the more people that know, right, this is what you do, the more opportunities you will have. And so great, great discussion on how to get work and how to be known to agents, pay-to-plays, managers, production houses. Good stuff. Laya: Yeah. Thank you, Anne. This was super informative. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me as well. Anne: Great, big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, be productive. Go get cast and have an amazing week. We'll talk to you next week. Laya: Take care. Bye-bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, your time is money. Don't waste a second of it! Anne + Laya dive deep into all the things that keep their businesses on track every day. From adding personal time to the calendar to automating follow up emails, you'll want to try it all. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with the amazing, happy new year, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Laya, yay! Laya: Hey Anne, happy new year. Anne: Happy new year to you. How are you, Laya? Laya: Did you rock it? I'm great. I'm like ready to seize this year. Anne: Did I rock it? Like every new year's -- Laya: Did you rock it? Anne: I'm getting older now, so it's harder and harder. Laya: It's slower rocking. Anne: It's slower rocking for me, but you know what? I celebrate it just as much, however, I may not be awake exactly. Laya: Yeah. I mean, well, it's funny. I used to run nightclubs for a living, and so New Year's Eve was the biggest thing that we did all year long. And I can't even tell you the planning and the hours awake that I stayed. Anne: Oh, I can imagine. Laya: It's probably not something I would admit publicly. And here I am, but now I'm like to me, a rocking new year is in bed by 10. Anne: And you were probably the thing about that is you were probably working at the stroke of midnight. Laya: Oh working, oh, for sure. I was, I was on stage commanding the audience, doing the thing popped in the balloons. Oh yeah. The whole nine yards. Anne: The whole nine yards. Laya: These days, my rocket new year is much more low key. Yeah. Anne: And it got very confusing when my husband and I moved from the east coast to the west coast. Cause now we're like, well, okay, can we celebrate it at 9:00? Laya: Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Because the ball drops at 9:00. Absolutely. Anne: The ball drops at 9:00 out here. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: And I still get confused. I don't know. We've been out here forever and I still get confused, but anyway. Laya: You can do it. You can do it. Anne: We go on. Laya: I say so. Anne: We go on. Laya: We go on to a better, brighter year, hopefully. Anne: That's right. Laya: Because gosh, I mean, we've had some success. We talked about this in the last episode. Anne: Yeah. Laya: There was a lot to look back on last year as being positive, and with this new growth mindset, we're walking into the new year, but we've got some good -- Anne: We've got work to do. Laya: -- ideas to share. Yes, we do. Anne: That's right. Laya: And we have to make this year the best yet. Anne: Yeah. So with all this work that we've already kind of like, here's what we want to do for our new year -- and of course, you know, over the actual time that you've had to think if you've had some time off, you might've come up with some more things that maybe you want to do for this new year, get yourself pumped up. So I think it's a great time to talk about, oh, how can I get this all organized? How can I be more productive with my time? Because I had a lot to do last year. And if I want to continue those, if I want to continue my brand and my parallel income streams, I still have a lot to do this year. So I want to know how can I do that more productively? Laya: That is a great question. I'm asking myself that all the time, but as a Virgo, A-typical personality, super organized and a little OCD, I think that for me, it starts with a bit of a daily checklist. And I mean, I don't always stick to it, but at least it's in my framework of which buckets of the business can I dip into and touch a little bit every day? So that's where my productivity window starts. How about you? Anne: Well, okay. So yeah, old school, old school, I have a to-do list. Laya: Your pen and paper. Anne: Yes, my pen and paper. And because I have to continue to make sure that I can actually write with a pen. It's interesting because when I write checks now like hand write checks, it's -- Laya: Oh yeah, your signature is all crazy. Anne: Yeah! Laya: Calligraphy is off. Anne: My calligraphy is off. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I feel like the pen doesn't fit right in my hand anymore. Laya: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Anne: And that's with my to-do list. I'm constantly scratching on my to-do list. And literally I have saved my to-do list for the past five years. And they're just these little, I have these wonderful, thin notebooks that I love to write in, lined. And I basically every single day, actually the night before, this is what helps me, I write down what I want to accomplish the next day or what I need to do for the next day. Laya: Love that. Anne: It doesn't always get crossed off because sometimes those tasks are, you know, multiple day tasks. But for me, what I love is, and I, and I remember you telling me, you like to cross those things off. I mean, that is like a -- Laya: I do. Anne: -- it's like a feel-good, I'm done, cross it off. I like that. I check beside it because I like to be able to see what I've done throughout the year. I still use that as kind of a checkpoint, but I also like to flip the page, right? To a new day, a clean -- Laya: A new day. Anne: -- slate. Laya: A clean slate. Absolutely. Anne: A clean slate, absolutely. And I make sure that that is the first thing that I do. Plus as I'm telling you, I'm getting a little older, my brain doesn't always remember everything that I have to do. Laya: Sure. Anne: So writing it down really helps cement this is what I have to do. It helps remind me of what I have to do. And the check mark is like so satisfying. Laya: Yes, it is. Well, speaking of that check mark, I actually have something maybe we are able to share with the BOSSes, like the actual document, but I created a VO business daily checklist for myself that is in those buckets. It has a few things. The buckets are, what do I do in my voice work? it's warm up stretch, vocalize, then all the way down the list into check emails, record and edit and deliver jobs, file all the work, you know, digital folders, et cetera, and make sure that -- Anne: Write the invoices. Laya: -- it's not all cluttered on the -- yes, the invoices, all of that. Then there's a bucket for business development. Then there's one for social, like stay active, but -- Anne: Love it. Laya: -- don't waste time here. That's a huge asterisk next to everything. Learn something new is another bucket and health and wellness is a bucket -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- as we've talked about a lot before, so maybe I'll polish this thing up, and we can share it with our BOSSes. Anne: Yes, that sounds amazing. Laya: It's helpful. It's equal parts -- I print them out. I have it digitally, but then I can check them off and start a new page when everything's accomplished. Helps my mind stay focused and stay productive. Anne: Well, you know, what's really nice too, is if any of you guys are Mac users, the Notes, just the simple Notes application works great. You can create a checklist. Laya: Yes, it does. Anne: Yup. And what I love about it is you can check those things off and then you can see it nicely and neatly checked off. So if you aren't enthralled with your handwriting. Laya: No handwriting required. Anne: No handwriting required for the Notes version. And yeah, I think that that for me is the number one thing that helps me stay organized and be productive. And I'm going to talk a little bit about, 'cause you mentioned it, social media. I literally cannot have a social media window open when I am trying to be productive. I just -- Laya: Nope, nope, no notifications either for me. Anne: -- can't. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And even though I say to myself, I am advertising on social media, right? 'Cause I have events through my VO Peeps and my VO BOSS episodes I'm posting out there, and I want to make sure that I'm responding and engaging with the community. I cannot have the windows open for LinkedIn, for Facebook, for Instagram, for anything, if I'm trying to get something done. So I make sure that I have specific times during the day that I will open them up and check and then respond. Laya: Yes. I actually agree with that. And here's a tip for BOSSes. I use my social media, meaning Instagram and Facebook, the real, you know, schleppy social media channels, but are equally as important. I only check those in the morning over coffee, 8:00, 9:00. And then again in the evening, 5:00, 6:00. The reason I do is because those are peak times for engagement. And so if you are going to post, and people are going to engage, the chance of them seeing it is higher in those time points -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- as opposed to you posting it 2:00 in the afternoon or 9:00 at night. So those are great windows of opportunity for exposure and to compartmentalize. And then I check LinkedIn at lunchtime because that's when my business colleagues and people are most active on LinkedIn is straight in the middle of their day. It's going to trickle out on its own time, as we know about all these platforms. But for me, that's where I compartmentalize that time to make sure that I don't stay off. I'm not great at it, but that's where I like to stay. Anne: And I think it's been, I think that those specific times are really good. And you know, it's been an adjustment, I will say, because I know that people were more used to me being like immediately engaging on social media. And I know the past couple of years, I just cannot be immediately there to respond or comment when things come in, and it's okay. I've had to kind of be okay with that myself to not be as available out there. And I've always like stressed and worried. Well, if I don't respond, will I lose my audience? Laya: Oh gosh. Anne: But I think that that has been one of those things that I have had to really try to test out and see, okay, how many times do I need to revisit and engage with my audience before they figure, oh, this is just, nobody's really here. And I do know that I have certain social media avenues where people think I'm not there, and that I'm a robot. And that has been something that I've been really consciously trying to test out and rectify and figure out what is the -- is there a magical formula for when and how often I should revisit that? So that has been the last couple of years, it has been a definite like test on my part, and I've realized that I don't have to be there. And in reality, I think the way social media has gotten in the past where it's been a little more toxic, a little more frustrating, there are more people who are taking time off from social media. And it's a little more accepted that -- Laya: Oh, it's beyond accepted. Anne: -- I'm not there. Laya: And let me give you a perspective flip on the mindset of that. If I see somebody that's constantly on social media, like throughout the day, the first thing I think of is they're not busy in their work. Anne: Oh my goodness, yes. Laya: They're not successful because they're -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- wasting their time here if -- they wouldn't be here if they had jobs in the booth. So when I see people that are super active all day long, I think what are you doing in your business? You're just chatting or responding to people. Anne: I love that you say that. Laya: So the mindset flip there is like, hey, the perception, maybe to others, if I am responding so much, is that I don't have enough work in my business. Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: And nobody wants to feel that way. Anne: Nobody wants that. Laya: But that candidly is sometimes what I see when I -- and not in our industry necessarily, when I see other people that I think are successful creatives. I'm like, what are you, how do you have time to be on this at 2:00 in the afternoon? You know? And so that's just a different way to shift your perspective. Maybe that'll help. I don't know. Anne: No, I actually, I love that you said that because there will be times I will see certain people, if they're continually commenting, continually posting, and I'll be like, what? Like, and this sounds horrible, but like, stop, like, just be quiet. Like just want to say, why are you here so much? Laya: Yes. Anne: Like if you're that busy, why are you still talking? Laya: Or if you're that successful, how are you that -- there's no way you're that successful if you were spending half your day or you're checking in every hour or whatever it is. And it's a willpower thing. Right? And so I'm like, maybe you're a little weak in your willpower, or maybe you're a little weak in your self-esteem that you've got to be on this all the time -- Anne: Interesting. Laya: -- looking for re-encouragement or looking for engagement when you should just be in your business. So that's kind of where I stuck in my head when I felt the same way about you. I started to notice how I felt when I saw that type of activity. Anne: Yeah, I think it's always -- Laya: Maybe that's a hack. Anne: I think it's always good to look inward. So how you -- it's similar to, let's say emails, right? So if I got an email from somebody, and it was unsolicited and they're trying to sell me something, and I look at it and inside I go really? Like, and that is my initial reaction. I think that all BOSSes should look to that. In terms of before you post something, before you email something, before you do anything, how would you react if it was done to you? That kind of thing, you know? Right. I mean, it's just, it's like life lessons 101. Laya: Sure, sure. Anne: If that happened to you, how would you feel? And so there are so many people that are silently doing that to every move possibly that you make on social media or in an email. They're silently making assessments. That's how I'll put it, they're making assessments. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so -- Laya: That's what I was doing. I, so I totally agree with that. Yeah. Anne: I think it's a good check to find out should I post, should I say that? Should I do that? So in terms of helping me be more productive, it actually has helped me to be more productive to limit myself -- Laya: Good for you. Anne: -- limit my input on social media. So that is definitely a number two productivity hack so that I can get my job done and not be distracted. Laya: Time management. Anne: Yes. Laya: You know, it's about everything. And it also kind of comes down to how you format your day. I don't know about you, but a typical day for me will be I get up and I'll do my wellness exercises, my meditation, we've talked about that. Get some fresh air, take care of my kid, get right down to work. I'll usually address -- and I, and I do this in stages and kind of in blocks. And I've learned this through some of my other voiceover mentors, because it's very easy to get wrapped up and scattered in your brain as to, oh, I should. I got to just get these invoices. And I just take a little bit of time every day, but I keep it organized, right? I'll handle all my top priority clients and agent auditions first or jobs, but usually a job isn't -- for me because I work shortform, is not usually left to the next morning unless it has to be. But the warmups for me tend to sit there, and then I'll continue to block the day where if there's jobs, in between those jobs or those sessions, I know I've got invoicing later this afternoon, I'm going to do all my invoicing in one block. And so those block mentality, as you compartmentalize your day, can help you stay productive. And there's a lot of thought about that, like work for 50 minutes and then take that 10-minute break, get up, walk around, get a snack, get a drink, what have you. And so if you can block your day -- Anne: That's important. Laya: -- that also helps with productivity. Anne: Well, as a matter of fact, my sessions are 50 minutes long. So I have 10 minutes to just relax and/or prep for my next session. And I wanted to kind of go back in terms of communication with clients, right? In terms of any type of communication with clients that you might do over and over again, there's a really cool feature that I love in, well, I have two ways that I do it. One is in Gmail. Gmail has templates now. So if you have a certain message that you send over and over to, let's say, a new contact, "hi, thanks so much for contacting. It's a pleasure to meet you. I'd be thrilled to be the voice for your next project." And so those types of templates can be automatically filled through the Gmail templates. I also had another thing that I purchased before the Gmail template came out and that was called Type 4 Me. And that's on a Mac. Laya: Oh, okay. Anne: T-Y-P-E, 4, the number four, Me. And that allows me to have all of these little like clips of the same type of emails, even my response, like my "warm regards, comma, you know, new line, new line, Anne Ganguzza." Laya: Right. Anne: That is, that is a clip. And I can just in a keystroke and with one, I'll do it. Like, thank you. I think I do, uh, TYWR, then it pops in those words for me into the email. And that helps me so immensely. Laya: Thanks for that hack, Anne, because I am a Mac user, and I'm slightly jealous. I know there's a way to convert into using your email to, or Apple Mail to Gmail, but I missed from my old days, those canned email responses. And so what I do is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- I have a document for that, but thank you for helping me to the Type 4 Me, for Mac. I knew there was something. Anne: There is. Laya: Because I do use canned email templates for a lot of things. I do -- I have one for generic inquiries, for generic corporate work or just what my kind of standard rates are. And that helps you streamline the process. Of course, I tweak and personalize where I need to and when I need to, but just like you see some templates features in some of the pay-to-plays, it's very helpful to -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- just continue to go back to that. I like to keep mine in Google docs, that way I can pull it from anywhere or in my notes, and it can be on my phone in case I'm on the go. And that makes sure that you don't miss anything when communicating quickly to a new client or sending -- Anne: Oh, it's so helpful. Laya: -- inquiry, right? So it's so key. Thanks for that, Type 4 Me. Anne: Type 4 Me. And I think also on the Mac, there is an auto-complete. If you type a few characters, there is an auto-complete, and you can set that up, and that's just comes with the operating system. However, I'm so used to -- and you might want to look into that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Just look into Mac iOS auto-complete, and see how you can enact that or enable that. But I love the type, the Type 4 Me is, it just pops up. It's a little application and I can just say, assign these few characters to this snippet. You know, so it's actually a snippet. Laya: Sure. Anne: And I love, love, love it, because it totally helps me. And I'll tell you another thing that helps me, which I found out a couple of years ago, because I do schedule meetings, and I'm in meetings quite a bit, not just with clients, but also with students. And so my other is a scheduling system, which is done through my Wix website that schedules on my calendar, integrates with my Google calendar, which by the way, I would not be able to live without my Google calendar. Laya: Same. Anne: Everything is scheduled into my Google calendar, and there's a lot of programs out there. Laya: My whole life. Anne: Yes, my life is Google calendar, and everything, there are lots of programs out there that integrate with a Google calendar. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that is like another one of my hacks. Like literally here, if you want to talk to me or you want to get in touch with me, bang, go sign up for a free consult or just get on my calendar here. And those types of automations really help me to schedule when I can talk to people. Like I literally am scheduled out probably -- my days are pretty darn busy, but this is an ongoing thing with me. You literally need to get me at least a week or two in advance before I can fit you in. 'Cause I've got it so blocked out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: The biggest problem that I have is that if I don't block out time for me, then I have no time for me. That is an issue. Laya: Exactly. So you gotta be number one on your calendar. Anne: Yep. Laya: I agree with you in that I use Calendly, which I've found to be incredibly helpful, especially if you get into the customization. Because for me, I've got, of course I just spoke, I've got an Apple calendar and that does integrate with the Gmail calendars and things of that. I share a calendar with the household. My kid's got a calendar, you know, all of those things. If you're laser connected to Calendly and you can have your own VO calendar, from there, I compartmentalize whether you need a 15 minute precession chat or a SourceConnect test, or maybe you just need to talk about a project that's coming up. Maybe that's a 30 minute block. I've got my session blocks as well for an hour or 50 minutes. And that's helpful to send to my agents for instance -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- where they're like, hey, we just need to know your schedule. Like what's your general availability for the next two weeks? I'm like, here's my link to Calendly and -- Anne: Oh my God. That's a perfect idea. I love that. Laya: Send that over. Now the thing is though for me, I've chose not to add it to my website. The con for me -- pro would be that it's super easy. The con is that then I would have no control over who's booking. And so I have it embedded in a private link on my website. That private link also has my revisions policy -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- my professional services guarantee, and my resume in case somebody needs any of that old school, the old school resume information. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: So I'll send that link to clients that are asking, or I'll just send the Calendly link for this specific time slot they're asking for which can be its own independent link. Like, hey, we just need a SourceConnect test. Well, here's all the 15 minute blocks that you could get in my schedule over the next infinity. So that to me has been a huge bonus hack as far as keeping things easy. And then you're not going back and forth with the well, yeah, 2:00 on Thursday -- Anne: Oh gosh, that takes up -- Laya: -- from this time to this time. Anne: -- so much time. Laya: You're actually -- and it makes you look way less professional and like you've got a system for your schedule, and that you're in demand. And so -- Anne: Well, yeah. Laya: -- I think that has, it serves many purposes. Anne: And I actually have it linked to my signature on my email. Laya: Nice. Anne: Here, set up a consult or whatever, schedule a chat with me. And so it just links to my scheduler, which is so, so helpful for me because you're right, the back and forth, "okay. So when are you available?" And I'm like, honestly, the best way to get in touch with me is here. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I'll give them a link to my calendar to get on my calendar, and that just helps. And what's nice is it's automated. It has like, thank you. Here's how we're going to connect. You know -- Laya: Yes, same. Anne: -- it might be ipDTL, or it might be via phone call. It might be via Zoom. I've got all the different ways that you can connect with me. And it just makes my life so much easier. I'm going to say that when I implemented my schedule or my calendar, it literally saved me -- and it automated like sent out the emails. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Thank you for connecting. Here's your automated reminder. Laya: Yes, the follow-up on those are awesome. Anne: Oh, gosh, you can do follow-up. And the fact that it automated all of those emails saved me 50%, at least, of the time that I used to try to schedule people in at times and going back and forth with email. It just became really, really frustrating. Laya: Yeah. And the effort to become more accommodating to your clients, to your students, to whoever, even your friends, you end up wasting more of your time. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so that's kind of a boundary set. That's really nice. And I love that you spoke to the automation on the backend. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Like I mentioned with Calendly, I can send an immediate reminder 15 minutes prior to session. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: I can send a follow-up message two weeks after or a week after, or what have you, that says, hey, just checking in, making sure everything is clean with the audio, if you had any other needs. And so it takes that extra wheelhouse off of my mind. Of course, I still have my own method for following up with the client personally, but this just adds like this extra layer. And sometimes I'll get the response back, and they'll be like, oh, thank you so much for checking back in. And to be honest, I may have even forgotten and you know, to follow up or got so busy and something else. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So it saves just peace of mind and professionalism. It takes it to the next level. Anne: And I think also there are those programs or CRMs that can help you to -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- once you connect with your contact, after you've done the job, it can send out an automated email that said "thanks so much again, it was a pleasure working with you and keep me in mind for any additional projects. If you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact me here" and boom, and then are actual like on a Wix platform, I have a few drip campaigns that are set up that will automatically contact my clients. So if anybody's on a Wix platform, it is part of the Ascend platform that you -- it's an add-on for email marketing. And basically, so after you connect with a client, you can have a "if then" statement that says, if they open this email, then three days later, send this email or send a followup. And there's lots of different scenarios. So it's really great. So I'll give an example for a VO BOSS interview. If somebody inquires about I want to be on the veal BOSS show, it goes through a whole campaign. Here, sign up here, fill out this form here. The form then sends me all the information, and then it gives them a link to the calendar, which then allows them to schedule, which then there's an automated email that says, thank you so much. Here's how you're going to connect with Anne. It'll send a reminder right before the connection. And then a couple of days after the actual scheduled session, there'll be a thank you that goes out. So it's really awesome the way that it can automate. Laya: I love that. Anne: And there's more than just -- that's the Wix platform. I also have an Active Campaign that I send emails out from to my lists. I also have client lists that can also do automations like that. Laya: Yeah. I've seen some of that same functionality in using HubSpot, which is a free CRM solution. You can connect Zapient to MailChimp. Anne: Yes. Laya: You can connect it to -- Anne: Is it Zapient? Laya: Zap -- Zapient? Anne: Or is it Zapier? Is it Zapier or Zay-pier? I can't remember. Are they two different things? Laya: I think they may be one in the same. Anne: Okay. Laya: I'm not going to fact check myself in this moment, but -- Anne: if you start with zap -- Laya: There's a zap somewhere. There's a zap somewhere out there. Anne: I've used it myself. And it's great. Laya: It's great. Anne: So if this happens, then do that. It's a really wonderful free app that you can do things like that with. Laya: And you can pull content too. Like if you have a hard time pulling all your email addresses because you've got multiple email accounts, or you're trying to create more of a contact list -- in fact, I recently found out an automation was in that cog wheelhouse that pulls my contacts from QuickBooks and put it into MailChimp. So I don't have my CRM solution fully vetted out by any means. I need all the help in the world, but trying these different productivity hacks for automation, there are many solutions out there that can make your life easier and less laborious, you know? Anne: Absolutely. And one other thing I'm going to oh, totally, totally recommend is go ahead, be brave and outsource things that you just -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- don't want to spend your time doing, or it's too com -- I'm going to say like for me, accounting, I say it all the time. Everybody that's listened to any, to just one episode, I might say it every episode. I'm not sure, but outsourcing my accounting was the best thing I ever did for my business. Laya: Yeah. If you don't love it -- Anne: Don't love it. Laya: -- pay someone that does. Anne: And she's great. She's fast. She loves it. And I trust her. I trust her with my life. You know, she'd been doing my accounting for gosh, at least five years. So. Laya: And that's a great hack too. And I use somebody not for my voiceover business, but for the podcast. I have partnered with a very talented, very savvy copywriter, and she knows my style of I, and she creates a social media posts for the podcast that I do with my daughter, She Sounds Like Me. And I love it because it just takes that off my plate. But also we use a platform called Later, which is a social media scheduler. And what I love about that is that I can see what's coming. She can do a cross platform integration and schedule. I can approve it ahead of time. And then if I don't like where she's got it, or it doesn't feel quite right, or it's not timely, I can very easily shift the tiles. So it's either aesthetically pleasing or it's more on topic point or what have you. And that's become a seamless integration into my social media management. I've often thought about integrating it into my voiceover business page, but for me that's still very in the moment, very real time, very personal -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and not exactly all that consistent at the moment because of just the last year of burnout. But I have found that Later is a great platform. And I feel like I've tried them all over the years, as far as social media scheduling goes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So that one's pretty efficient. Yeah. Anne: I have a social media scheduler for, 'cause I have so many Facebook business pages, and Facebook for a while was really where a lot of my clients were. And so I have a Facebook scheduler, which also integrates with Twitter and LinkedIn. I can have so many social media to -- it's called Post Planner. Laya: Okay. Anne: And so I've been using that for years. And then also Facebook now has become, and/or Instagram, one in the same now, have their own scheduler now. Laya: Sure, they do. Anne: And so that has become fairly decent in terms of you can't schedule too far, but you can schedule out. So with the combination of those, I'm able to schedule the majority of my stuff out there. And then I will follow up with the engagement. Like I said, I can't be connected to social media every hour of the day, but when I do connect, that's when I engage and comment and respond and also post some interesting finds to my own timeline or add to what I've already posted before to keep it kind of fresh and not too predictable. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Another great resource that I've been loving because my days of graphic design or my experience there is limited -- I know what I like aesthetically, but there's no way I'm going to spend time creating unique graphics, whether it's for the show or for promoting the business or promoting something within the voiceover business, like we've done with the podcast. I love using Canva and I use Canva Pro for graphic design for so many things. Anne: Yay! Canva's amazing. Laya: And it's actually, yeah, speaking of integration and scheduling, Canva just introduced a scheduler within their platform. Anne: [gasps] Yes. Laya: And what I love to deep -- and take it to a next level, everyone asks who may not be savvy in those audio grams, where you're seeing how you've maybe just done a radio commercial, and you've gotten full permission from the client, you can use the spot on social or to promote your business, but they don't have moving imagery. So you grab the picture that represents the brand best or the concept or the campaign. And you overlay that audio on top. People are always asking, how did you do that? I use Headliner for that. Anne: Yup. Headliner's awesome. Laya: Love that. I use it for the podcast as well. And sometimes for some of my voice work or for my demos to make a moving image. But Canva now integrates with Headliner. Anne: Oh, amazing. Laya: So these, some of these systems are working together to not only plan, create, schedule, but overlay -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- all in an effort to be more productive, more cohesive, and save you time. Anne: I have to plus like 21,000 for Canva because that literally, you don't have to be a graphic artist -- Laya: No, it's so easy. Anne: -- which not many people I know. Laya: It's intuitive. Yeah. Anne: And so I would struggle with Adobe because I have the Creative Suite -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- but it's not something I use every single day. I'm not a graphic designer, and neither are necessarily anybody that's working with me to do to post social media. But Canva has just joined us together in happy, joyous unity. Laya: Oh, I love it. I love it for my teams too. Anne: Yup. Laya: Like I was saying about my social media manager, we have folders that are specific to that brand. Anne: Yup. Laya: I have folders that are specific to my voiceover business or Cyla's voiceover business. And so to go in there and have this asset library -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- and the membership is very inexpensive. Anne: It is. Laya: There is a free version -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then an inexpensive version. I just make sure -- Anne: I use Pro. Laya: -- that these are part of my -- yeah, me too, to integrate that as part of my business cost, because those memberships can save you so much time, energy, and effort and up-level the look and feel of your brand and your professionalism. Anne: I didn't know they had scheduling. Now I'm going to have to check that out. Laya: Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Laya: I don't know what it integrates with or if it's a standalone scheduler, but I love that it's there. It's, everybody's thinking along those same lines, you know? Anne: God, good stuff. Laya: For sure. Anne: BOSS productivity hacks. Laya: Love it. Anne: You guys BOSSes, we would love to hear your productivity hacks. So we've given you the best of ours. And I think I am really, really excited for an amazing year this year, Laya, and I know you are too. Laya: Yes, let's work smarter, not harder -- Anne: There you go. Laya: -- and be smart and productive in our VO BOSS businesses. Anne: And I'll tell you what else is smart. Our sponsor, ipDTL. Laya: Yes. Anne: I love, love, love ipDTL. It allows me to connect with Laya, with all of my clients and with every BOSS out there. So you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, productive week. And we'll see you next week. Laya: And happy new year, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Happy new year. Bye, guys. Laya: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

How's your vision board looking lately? Take time to lay out your ideas, hopes, and dreams for this upcoming year and establish a growth mindset that will move you forward! Anne and Laya discuss the tools and strategies they use to manifest outcomes within their own businesses, including tangible ways to create and maintain a healthier work/life balance in the midst of stressful times. Incorporate what works for you, from note-taking progress, to genre-specific training, developing tracking systems for career goals, or fostering mentorship opportunities - all while building a strong support system. Move beyond the resolutions this year, and focus on a truly life-changing new mindset of growth. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza with my amazing, very special guest cohost Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. Hey BOSSes. Nice to be back. Anne: Laya, you know, it's that time of the year -- Laya: It is. Anne: -- towards the end of the year, where we look forward to an amazing new year coming to our BOSS enterprises and our lives. And so I thought it'd be a great time to discuss a new mindset for a new year. Laya: Absolutely. It's all about setting the intention, the reflection of the year, and the things we learned about what we just went through. And man, we've learned a lot. Anne: Oh gosh. Every year I think I learn more, and I hope that for you BOSSes out there that it is the same. As you go from year to year, you're building, you're growing, you're learning. And I think I'd love to share some tips with you about maybe how I get a great start to my New Year's or I try to get a good start to my new year by setting my mind for growth. Laya: Absolutely. That growth mindset is essential. And I love all of our conversations up to this point because they've kind of stacked up into this perfect equation of some of the ideas that we can really dive deep into, but let's list them out today and go through some of the intention-setting for how to prepare yourself for the year ahead. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Well, I think the first thing you have to do is just really sit down and take a good look at what happened to you this year. Pay attention to what you did month after month. And hopefully you have some sort of a system where -- I have my to-do lists that I jot down and I actually don't throw those to-do lists away. Laya: Really? Anne: Yeah. Laya: That's cool. Anne: It's just like a running list in a notepad right now. I mean I'm old school, right? So I have a piece of paper, and I think it's the only way that I still write to be honest with you other than typing on my computer. I actually write on my to-do list. And so I have a record of what has happened from day to day. And I think looking back on that, it really helps me to understand like where I've been, what projects I've been working on, what new clients I've gotten, what clients I'm following up with, and really gives me a nice like diary or a journal of almost like my to-do's and my accomplishments for the year. Laya: I love that. Yeah, I do something similar. My to-do lists usually gets scratched off as I feel accomplished. If like -- it's like the zero inbox thing. I'm like oh God, crumpled up and throw those out. But what I do is reflect back in kind of my journaling and a lot of what we had talked about in a previous episode about kind of, well, manifestation, right? And so at some point, sometimes twice a year, I'll do my manifestation list of the things that I want to achieve. And then sometimes it's nice to go back and revisit those lists and be like, wow! That actually happened. Or I have work to do if I really want to still get that done and stay focused. So I love taking another step from that and journaling kind of like my pows and my wows, as my daughter would say, which is like, what were the things I was most stoked about this last year that I achieved and what kind of was a low point, but what did I learn from those low points to achieve or apply and do better next year? So I do a version of what you're saying and kind of incorporate that, uh, manifestation process in that too. Anne: Yeah. So what is your next, right? What is your next, I guess, rung on the ladder? I like to think that I climb upwards and grow towards success. And there is one thing I do want to point out that growing your business year after year, it is, it's a little stressful sometimes. Laya: Yeah. Anne: It can really kind of play with your mental brain a little bit because it's scary. Laya: It is. Anne: And I am the first one to admit, it's like, where do I go from here? It's like, wow, how can I grow? And it really forces me to sit back and think about, okay, what do I want to do this year? It's not just a money goal. A lot of times though I like to incorporate numbers though in my, this is what I want to achieve next. Laya: Sure. Those are hard and fast rates in the market, right? Anne: Exactly. Exactly. But it's not just the numbers. It's also what I want to do. What new endeavors do I want to, you know, embark on? Do I want to maybe start a podcast, right? Or maybe -- not necessarily me right now -- I love my VO BOSS podcast, but how can I grow the podcast or how can I grow my voiceover performance? Should I study? Should I look for the next great client? How am I going to do that? Should I step up my marketing? All of those things, what is going to be that next place that I'm going to go that I didn't do last year? Right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: So I want at least one brand new thing that might scare me -- Laya: Yes! Anne: -- to really go for that and try to achieve. Laya: Well, I totally agree with that. In fact, one of the best things about being your own BOSS in this voiceover space is that there are so many layers to peel back, and there is always room for growth, which is a beautiful thing. You know, we don't really ever reach peak status unless you really are the best of the best, but even then we're always learning, and we're always growing. I agree with that completely. I see myself in a twofold space. You know, of course I had a monetary goal at first, and I wanted to surpass that, and I want to double or build on that as I go throughout the years, but I also want to break new ground in different genres. So for instance, and I would love to know yours, 'cause I think it's a little peek behind the curtain, but for me personally, my next rung would be to break into network promos. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: I've been working really hard on it. I have a beautiful demo. We're both up for an award. Anne: Yes, congratulations. Laya: Yes, congratulations. I think by the time this airs, we may know the turn of that. Anne: That's right. Laya: But what a great honor, and to be able to break into a new genre is really important. That's a win for me. And that's something, that's the next rung for me. What about you? Anne: Oh goodness. So I have a lot of things that I'm thinking. You know, I've always, I always want to grow my businesses more or I want to consolidate them so that my time is better, more efficient. Laya: Yeah, work smarter, not harder. Anne: Exactly, more streamlined. So that's always a challenge to me, especially because I dabble in multiple income streams, and I do have people who work for me. And so it's trying to organize those people to be more efficient, and then also kind of grow with me and then figure out how I can best implement the team so that -- it's an interesting thing when you have a team of people that work with you. It's always trying to make sure that they're joyful and happy and want to work for you because it's just as a good thing all around. You know, if you have people that really believe in the goals and work toward the goals with you, and that is, that's a difficult thing when you're working with people that also have their own business. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So that's kind of a mindset, kind of a culture that I'm looking to nurture and grow as well, so that I can continue to keep anyone that's on my team, you know, happy and willing and wanting to work for the team. And you know, the VO BOSS team is amazing, and they do all sorts of wonderful things for me here. And, uh, I'm very grateful, and I want to continue to work on how we can grow together. Laya: Yeah. That's definitely a next rung thing. And you speak about something we've referenced personally, managing up, stretching your role -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- but also handing off our responsibilities that may be better served for an expert in that particular field -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and really utilizing your resource pool to scale. So, you know, that's a great goal to achieve. Yeah. Anne: That's a goal I continue to work on, and then I've got a new goal of something that I've never done before that I'm looking forward to do -- Laya: What's that? Anne: -- in the next couple of years. That is to author a book or two. Laya: Oh, that would be awesome. Anne: Yes. I've got a couple of thoughts in the back of my head, and I'm starting to research options and how to achieve that. Laya: Yes. Anne: So, I'm excited about that. That's something that I haven't done. No doubt, if I jot down my intentions, I am fairly confident that I'm going to be able to achieve that. Laya: Manifest it. Yes, you will. Anne: Yes. Laya: That's exactly right. And it's a great time to do that. So like, even if you could dream big, and you've got a far reaching goal, this is a great time personally to take that inventory and write it down. Anne: Yup. Laya: People often ask what manifestation is, and you spoke just to it. It's like, write it down, make it your intention. You don't have to necessarily put it in your focal point every single day. But if you put out there in the universe that's what you want, you never know, that might be what you attract. Right? Anne: Exactly. Laya: It's a great intention to put out there. I see you doing it. Yeah. Anne: I've always, and I say this in multiple episodes, or if you've listened to any other BOSS episode, I really run my business in my life with my gut. And so if I put it out there, and I believe in it, I usually find the way to make that come true. Laya: Yes. Anne: Even if I don't make it come true in the way that I originally thought, I have certainly learned a ton along the way, and actually revised it to a point where it works better than the original intent. So I'm very, very happy. I really believe that it is, it's something that has always, always worked for me. And I believe that it can work for anybody if they -- Laya: I would agree. Yes. Anne: Yeah. Laya: You trust that gut. Anne: Yeah. Laya: I mean, it, that, grateful for the gut, right? Anne: Yeah. Laya: It guides us. Anne: It really does. Laya: And if you tapped into that, that's when it can feel really great. And you know that you're on the right path for yourself. So. Anne: One thing though, after all of these goals and manifestations, I was going to say, and I look to you for this -- I need to create a better work-life balance because anybody that knows me knows me, I'm a little bit of a workaholic, so that's on my to-do list, but I know that you can really speak to that probably more so than I can. Laya: Well, maybe it's just because the kid factor keeps me on my toes -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and I feel like I have to segment that. And also just knowing the grace that we all needed this last year, I put that work-life balance in place to give myself some relief to look forward to in the way of vacations and whatnot. But yeah, I've heard recently, it's not just a 9-5. We know that our voiceover business is so much more than that. And you do have to be available at the ready, but yeah, putting some boundaries in place is okay, and is okay and actually creates respect and accountability for yourself, for your clients, and the people that work for you and with you. So I think that that is key, Anne. Let's give you a day off every week. Anne: Right? Laya: Let's give you a time off to turn it off, Anne. Let's do that. Anne: And it's funny because I also want to mention that when I work with my students, I have some students who work full-time, and then they're pursuing this on a part-time basis. And you know what? I need to take my own advice because here's what happens. When you get into the booth, and you are stressed out beyond belief, or you're tired, you're running, you've got family, you've got a full-time job, you've got maybe another part-time job or you're trying to work on voiceover, when you get in that studio, all of that comes out in your voice -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- if you are not centered and relaxed. Laya: That's right. Anne: And so it will affect your performance. So in reality, having that work-life balance is actually going to make you a better performer. Laya: I agree with that. I can feel the stress when I just feel like I have not had any me time, and you can hear it. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You can feel it in the voice. I mean, these microphones amplify us, right? And so it amplifies that energy. And I think that if you don't make that time, and you don't give yourself that grace and the breaks, then you can't come back refueled, and eventually that'll lead to either resentment or frustration or burnout. And then it won't nurture the most authentic, true meaning of this business, which is to do it because you love it. Right? And so I commend -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- people that are doing it on the side and then working to get to that full-time place. Anne: Yes. Laya: We've all been there. Anne: It's so hard. Laya: Yes, it is. Anne: It is. Laya: And it really does take some very diligent time management so that you can make sure you're being your best self to yourself, your businesses, whatever your current employer is -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and your future boss, which is yourself. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, work-life balance is high on that list for next year for me. Laya: I'm going to hold you accountable, Anne. I'm gonna check in next month and see where you're at with that. Anne: Okay. So besides new genres, what about, what else for you? You have anything else? Laya: You know, I really like to continue to find and nurture that mentor-like network. We've talked about it before, the people on the compass, my north star. Make sure to nurture those relationships so that they stay healthy, and I stay accountable, and also giving as much as I'm receiving. You know, mentoring someone else that's coming up, reaching my hand down or out to the sides and pulling my people in and sharing this information. It's one great reason or result of this podcast is being able to spread information and share and be a resource -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- to fellow talent, but not just within our genre and our industry, but in others. I mentor young women, my daughter, other young female entrepreneurs, is something that's very important to me. So that's something that I'll be looking for. Not only continue to nurture my relationship with my mentors, but also create new relationships and become a mentor. How about you? Anne: Yeah. And I think really find the time to have a mentor. And that has been something I've been guilty of just because I'm working many different brands, many different things that I'm doing. And I have been on a search for a mentor, and I've actually met someone this year that I'm really going to pursue that mentorship with because -- and this is a mentor that's actually outside of the industry. Laya: Yeah, which is totally cool. Right? Like -- Anne: I love it, yes. Laya: -- you can glean so much from that. Good for you. Anne: I love it. Because what it does is it gives me a perspective that I don't have when I'm inside, in the voiceover industry. This gives me a different perspective and really takes me to a place where I can like, kind of come out of the box and think in a broader term, how can I reach a broader audience and how can I stretch myself even further? That's the most important because sometimes just thinking myself, what can I do to grow? It's hard to come up with ideas, right? And so a mentor, and especially when I think that's outside of the industry, for me, it's a business mentor, you know, here's what you need to really consider to grow. And this is what I did, and this is what I experienced and there's, it just, it really opened up a whole new world for me meeting this mentor that I'm really going to make it a point next year to have some consistent meetings with my mentor to help inspire me. Laya: Yeah. I love that. And in addition to that, if a mentor may not be in your space right now, I also work with a life coach who is -- Anne: Oh, nice. Laya: -- not just a therapist, but they coach me both on my business, how I'm presenting myself in the world. She's a very recognized, successful business woman herself. And so she kind of plays both roles. Of course, I pay her for that, right? Anne: Yeah, well. Laya: So it's not just a free trade of information -- Anne: It's an investment, right? Laya: It is an investment, but it's an investment in myself and my business. And she kind of, I found someone that bridges the lines between kind of a personal talk therapy style and more strategy on the overall big picture for lifestyle and then business sense. So I've tapped into someone in that space, again, outside of our industry -- Anne: Nice. Laya: -- that helps me cultivate the best of all those pockets. And that's become really essential to my mental wellness, my emotional wellbeing as well. So something that's very cool, and I would highly recommend to anybody else that's looking to spread that experience out. Anne: Yeah. I completely, completely agree. And yeah. Look to the outside. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Look to the outside, that would be my top suggestion for a mentor. Unless of course, if you're just getting into the industry, a mentor in the industry is absolutely very helpful. Actually find a couple of mentors. Laya: Yeah. Absolutely. Anne: Right? Laya: Somebody on every side of the compass, somebody beneath you, you know, to yourself, somebody above you, and the east and west, that you can bring them in. Like my friend Kelly Buttrick says, it's a great analogy because it keeps it in perspective to go full circle, 360 and to be outside of your ego, which is key in any industry. Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, so important, I think, in order to actually keep yourself, I would say, keep track, to keep yourself grounded, and to also keep yourself moving forward mentally and physically believe it or not, make sure that you are taking those successes that you've seen this past year and write them down. Take a moment to sit there and write down. For example, in my journals, I don't necessarily document, oh, this was a success, but I think you need to sit down at a moment if you haven't done this already and document your successes this past year, because that's going to really give you a great point to identify here's where I am. And now this is where I want to be. And plus it's, I think it's amazing to really give yourself that positive boost in terms of where you've progressed in your voiceover career, because sometimes it's really difficult. I mean, you're only thinking about the last thing that you just did, which was, oh my gosh, you know, I've auditioned a hundred times, and I haven't gotten anything. And so that tends to sit in your brain. So if you can actually think beyond this past day or week and really document, where did you start and how far have you come? What are your successes? And they can be, they don't have to be huge successes. It doesn't have to be, oh, I booked a gig. It could be, I started my website. I wrote my bio, you know, whatever it is, I coached with so-and-so. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And so it can be small things because they all add up. Laya: They sure do. And I've got actually a new practice this year for myself that kind of speaks to this. That might be helpful for some BOSSes. It's just kind of an interesting way that I've documented my success. And what I did was I took a Google spreadsheet that I can pick up from anywhere, from my cell phone or from my computers. And anytime I get a call back or make a real contact or some headway with either one of my managers or one of my agents, I document that in this one spreadsheet. It's organized by agent or manager -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- whether it was a booking or a call back or a hold. And just so I can see kind of how I've stacked up, because you forget those things as the year goes on. Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You might see or remember the booking or you remember the project, but sometimes you don't remember all those touch points in between, and those are wins too. So maybe you didn't book the job, but that production company, you know, asked for a callback for you. Anne: Exactly. Laya: Or you were given the opportunity to be on hold. Maybe you didn't finally book it, but that's a win. Jeffrey Umberger would state that all of those touch points and those opportunities are essentially as good as a booking -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- because you got right up there in front and you were a top contender. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: And so tracking those things for me has been helpful because then I can look back and see what kind of value I provided to my partners. And it does make you feel a little bit better about where you're sitting status wise, whether you were a great partner in return, and how you are resonating with those managers or agents or partners in your life. So that's something I incorporated this year and I find it to be incredibly eye-opening looking back. Anne: Totally agree. And especially, I want to reemphasize for those of you just starting out in the industry, where you may not be booking gigs every other day or every day. And as a matter of fact, by the way, that's a really difficult thing to do. Even as a veteran in the industry, it's hard. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So we all, we all go through that. So I think it's even more important for you to document those little touch points, those little successes, so that you can actually really see and be encouraged because there's so many students that start out, and they'll come back to me and they'll say, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm not booking. I just don't know, you know, help me. And I remember it so very vividly when I started out and trust me, it happens. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: It happens to all of us in the beginning. It's so difficult to kind of get the traction in the industry, and you just have to have faith. Be patient, know that if in your heart, you're working towards your goals -- Laya: You will get there. Anne: -- you're, um, you're manifesting, you will get there, you will get there. And that's why I think those documenting those little successes is so very important, and hang it up in your studio. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, I love that, like -- Laya: A visual. Anne: -- have a little vision board or, you know, I have some students that put sticky notes in their studio. Sometimes they'll put sticky notes to remind themselves about performance issues like don't breathe or whatever, but also I think you should put sticky notes in your booth that have successes on them to really keep your mental state in a powerful and positive mode when you're in there and continuing to audition. Laya: Absolutely. I remember when I started out, if I can just share some vulnerability with you and our listeners -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- is that I think I was tracking my auditions, but very vaguely. You know, sometimes in those pay-to-plays you can see how many auditions you did and we'll get to that, I'm sure, in a future episode, but what you can also see is just how many MP3s you've saved in your folders. And it's pretty easy to take a look at the stack as you start to archive and organize your files. But I think I was at like 1000:1 ratio for a while. Anne: For booking? Laya: Oh yeah. For a while. And it was part of the learning process. And I would try really hard and get super frustrated. But when I got that one, it was a huge win. And when I looked to start creating a website or when I was starting to look for a great coach, those were all really big wins. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So I'm with you -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- especially early on, it can take a lot of wind out of your sails to see some of those tracking -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Laya: -- and documents of your quote success or your work, but it's much better to focus on the successes. So you're absolutely right, Anne. Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you, yeah. When I, and my vulnerability, when I was first beginning too, absolutely, I kept track of my auditions. I kept track of what I booked. And I remember at one point, like literally I was in tears, and I will write out, admit that. Laya: Sure. Anne: Like literally in tears, more than once, frustrated just saying, oh my gosh, I don't belong here. What am I doing? I just quit my job. You know, that kind of thing. Or -- Laya: Same. Anne: -- should I quit? Like what, what is going on here? And so just know BOSSes that those little successes are going to mean a whole lot, and just know that we've all been there, and you can make this new year and amazing year for you -- Laya: You sure can. Anne: -- with a new mindset. Laya: And I think part of that new mindset is relinquishing the pressure or the self-doubt and just changing your focus from a scarcity mindset like there's just not enough. I don't fit in here. There's not enough money coming to me. And going back to something we've talked about in the past is just staying open to the abundance of life. There's plenty of work for all of us out there. There's new mediums and new technologies all the time. Anne: Absolutely. Laya: There's an ear out there that your voice resonates with. It's just about honing it in and getting comfortable in yourself and having an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And that is something I got to check in with myself on the regular. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah, we all do . Laya: I do not claim to have perfection there, but as you move into the new year, if you can have an abundant and open and grateful mindset and be excited about the opportunities and your achievements, as, no matter how small or big, then you're on the right track for the year ahead. Anne: Yeah. You know, I also think it's a good thing outside of what's manifesting where you want to be in that next year, is take any part of your business or even your lifestyle or life skills and learn a new one. Pick something new that you want to learn that can help grow your business grow -- because I feel because we are such an intimate part of our own business. I mean, it's our voice. So whether you put that into a work-related skill or a life skill, I think that it all will help to build your business because we are such an inherent part of our own brand. I mean, obviously, more so than any other job that I know out there. I mean actors and voice actors, we are our own products. Laya: Yeah. Anne: So learn something new, and maybe learn something new that I don't know that you didn't think you wanted to learn because sometimes that'll either reinforce the fact that, oh, God, I really don't need to do this. And I might outsource it. That's also a growth mindset in terms of let me invest in outsource. Laya: You're like, yeah, that didn't work for me. Moving on. Anne: Or maybe you'll learn it, and it won't be as hard as you thought it was, like marketing. I know there's so many people that are afraid to market. They're afraid to get out there, but I say, give yourself some small goals to learn new parts of either marketing or I don't know, writing a new bio for your website, getting a website, understanding technologically, what you need to do to get that SourceConnect connection or -- Laya: Yeah, learn that stuff. Anne: -- ipDTL, learn that stuff. There's so many things that are outside of just the performance part of that. Learn more about sound -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- acoustics. Laya: Yes. Anne: So many, so many things that you can do. Laya: Engineering. Anne: And I know there's so many people that are afraid of the technology that it takes to create good audio files and just create good audio, but go ahead and take a class on it. And even if you're not good at the computer, I have people that are not necessarily technologically -- they'll label themselves, I'm not good at technology. Well, take a computer class. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I mean, just something as simple as that can really help you because gosh knows that this is what we do on a day-to-day basis, is work on our computers in some form or fashion, either marketing or creating audio or editing audio, all that good stuff. But I think put one new skill out there for you to learn and then document your progress. And I think you're going to be surprisingly impressed with yourself. Laya: You never know what's either going to light a complete fire under you and reignite something inside yourself from a creative standpoint or just mindset or, you know, skillset that is really going to inspire to push you in a different direction or push your skills outside or grow you inside and out. And those are some of the things that I mark as some of my highlights of last year. I never thought getting into promos was going to be the genre for me. But man, when I started, I loved it so much. It gave me a whole new appreciation for the power of our voice and for storytelling and for the psychology behind how we use our voice in this particular genre. And so I'm excited to introduce new genres that make sense for me, because I'm so inspired by the spark that that education gave to me, similarly to how you know, oh man, I actually could create my own website, and I did it and I'm proud of myself. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so you either realize that, or just like you said, you realize that's not for me. Let's move. Anne: Exactly. Laya: But you'll never know unless you try. Right? Anne: Learn something new. Laya: So it's a beautiful thing to push yourself there. Yeah, for sure. Anne: And I think all of you witnessed my last series on AI and voice. That was an educational journey for me. That was learning new skills. That was learning something new in the industry that people are not comfortable with that. So, and I knew that as well, but I wanted to make sure that I educated myself on it so it wasn't as scary. Laya: Yep. Anne: And so that was the purpose. Laya: Takes the fear out. Anne: And everybody kind of witnessed me going through my own educational journey and learning something new. Hopefully everybody else benefited from that as well, if they took the challenge to learn something new. So I think that it's a real important part of mindset for your new year to, you know, have those goals, and they don't have to be huge goals. They don't have to be -- as a matter of fact, sometimes huge goals are, you're defeated when you start, because you already feel overwhelmed. Laya: They're daunting. Right, right. Anne: Yeah. So it could be just something simple, you know, for a new job-related skill. Maybe it's like, install Grammarly, you know, which I need all the time, Grammarly on my computer so I can spell things correctly, but just, it could be something very, very simple. And I think you will find that once you master that, and see I'm manifesting for everybody, that you will master that skill. And again, if you don't master the skill, then, well we know what you don't know what you don't like. So -- Laya: Yeah, thank you, next. Anne: -- always a learning, always a learning experience. Laya: These are awesome tips on how to create a growth mindset for yourself. And what I love is if you're doing that for yourself, you never know how that's going to radiate out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and help the people around you, the family you love, your support system, whatever your network may be, continue to grow and see the opportunities ahead of you. So if it's not a resolution, at least make it a growth mindset. And I think that there is no way to see anything less but good to come out of that. You know? Anne: Yeah, I like that. So we aren't going to make any resolutions. We're simply going to look forward in the year and maybe not call it a resolution because that has such a stigma attached to it. Laya: It does. Anne: You know, sometimes people are already feel like, well, after day one and I'm going to work out every day next year. I know that that is like the, the age old here's what I'm going to do next year. But you guys, you are BOSSes to the absolute 100th degree. So I have the faith. Laya has faith in you. We all have faith in you. So I say, go forth and make 2022 an amazing, amazing year. Laya: Yes. Happy new year, everybody. Have that growth mindset and keep it going, positive direction. Yep. Anne: Okay. Big shout-out to my sponsor that we know and love. Happy, happy new year, and looking forward to many more connections in the future -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- with ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing rest of your week, and happy, happy 2022. Thanks! Bye. Laya: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There's no off season in voice over - which can be a blessing and a curse! Being on the road in VO requires careful consideration of equipment, environment, your clients' needs, your business goals, and your own sanity(!). Anne and Laya chat vacations and voice over, including what it takes to maintain a complicated artist work/life balance while traveling. They'll tell you how to reduce your anxiety level while heading out on the road by putting together an organized mobile studio and communicating with your agents, managers, and clients + offer tips about how to set healthy boundaries around your business. Get ready for your next trip with #VOBOSS advice and recommendations… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, along with my amazing, lovely, wonderful guest co-host Laya Hoffman. Hey Laya. Laya: Hey Anne. It's nice to be back, loving these convos of course. And we've already shared so much. This is getting good. Anne: I know, nice to be back. Speaking of which, Laya, I think you just came back from vacation, and if I'm not mistaken, you did mention that you might be going somewhere else soon. So let's talk about this. Laya: Crazy. Anne: You're a busy voice talent. So let's talk about VO on the road. And if, do you do VO on the road while you're on vacation? Laya: Yes. Every time, because I think it goes without fail, the second you leave is when the call comes in, right? Anne: Always. Laya: Like always, either that client you've been dying to nag or an ongoing campaign or something that just is on fire. It always happens when you go on the road. Anne: When you go on vacation. It's so true. I want to go on the road every other day now because this guarantees me a job. So, but going on the road, going on the road does require, you know, a special travel rig. It requires a -- a special mentality because when you go on the road, I mean vacation, are you really on vacation if you're working? That's the question. Laya: Yeah, yes. It is true. And it kind of, you know, you have to strike a balance. My family is like, oh you know, mom, you're going to bring your rig. Yes. Because mom's going to pay for vacation this way. Anne: This is going to pay for your next meal. No. Laya: Exactly. So there's so many nuances about it, and yeah, there's different schools of thought. I think I'm still green enough in my career in cultivating my client list and my reputation and my partnerships with management and agents, I know that I want to be available. Now, I also put boundaries in place that I'm not available. So it's not like every vacation all the time. Anne: Right. Laya: So let's talk about it. Yeah? Anne: Well I think, yeah, I think absolutely, number one, it depends on what genre, right, you specialize in. Laya: Sure. Anne: Exactly how changed you might be, right, to being available 24/7. I think obviously if you do promos, I mean, you actually sign contracts so that you can be available on a day-to-day basis and you. Laya: Yes, like golden handcuffs, right, right? Anne: Like golden handcuffs. Also, if you're, you know, commercial work, a lot of times, it's like we needed it yesterday. Anything that's broadcast. I know for myself, I do a lot of the long format narration, which I can build in a little bit of time with that. So I think that -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- all of that contributes to whether or not I bring my microphone on the road with me, and I will be honest, for the past, you know, years, I always have, because I never wanted to give up that opportunity. And I also have agents who, you know, when they send me an audition, I better be able to get them that audition back because I don't want to, number one, jeopardize that relationship with the agent, nor do I want to pass up an opportunity that might work for me. Laya: Sure. Anne: So even if I'm doing an audition on the phone, you know, in my car, although I, I have to say, I try to not do that. I try to, well, let me bring my microphone. I really want it to sound good. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And so thus begins well, what does my travel rig look like? And we can talk about that in a little bit, but what about you? Laya: I feel the same way. You know, like I said, to me, I've gotten my rig down so small and compact, and you know, I use a Sennheiser 416. It gives a premium sound in most situations. Anne: You know, I'm gonna stop you there and agree with you wholeheartedly. Laya: Okay, good. Anne: Just, and I'm gonna let you continue in just a minute, but I do want to say, I don't know why it took me so long to realize that I really should take a 416 with me because most spaces are not optimal. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And the 416 helps me to create awesome sound. So please continue on. Laya: Yes. Anne: I'm right there with you on the 416. Laya: Yes. I'm on it right now. She's my babe. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I think because the rig is, I've gotten it down so compact, it's easy for me to grab my pack and go. But also, like I said, I want to cultivate those relationships. I want to be available. I also, my focus is short form. I'm really trying hard to get into promos. And I've seen quite a bit of opportunities lately. I don't want to miss. Those are usually last minute on fire, need it now auditions. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I want to show the producers, the creative teams, my, my partners that believe in me that I'm there to deliver. And I want those opportunities, you know, I'm going to strike while the iron's hot. So, uh, that, that doesn't bother me. It actually gives me great joy to be able to travel and take my work with me in the nicest way possible. You know? So I'm good with it. Anne: And you know, what else? Um, to be quite honest, I mean, I don't know anyone that takes their travel rig with them and works eight hours a day. Do you know what I mean? Laya: No, yeah. Anne: It just, it's either that audition that's like, oh, boom, I need that right away. Or I need this commercial right away. So if it's a short form kind of a deal, it doesn't always take us hours upon hours away from our families on vacation. So that time could maybe be done when, I don't know, people are napping, right? Laya: Yes, yes. Anne: So that doesn't necessarily take away from the togetherness of your trip. And that was always my kind of theory was, you know, I'll take those times because they, they tend to be not hours and hours of time. It's maybe an hour here, maybe a couple of hours here. It really depends, but it's not an entire day. And so I feel that I can enjoy my vacation once I'm done with that audition or done with that short job that I'll get. And it never takes me completely away. Laya: You're absolutely right about that. And it also kind of gives me peace of mind. I have brought my rig and not needed to unpack it or use it on a few family vacations recently. You know, when the world kind of opened up again, we planned many little excursions to kind of get that travel, you know, get out, and then things changed a little bit. So we stacked the deck a little hard towards the end of this year. And while it's giving me a little bit of anxiety because of how busy things are in the booth, to have that ability to take it, but not necessarily need to use your rig, is okay too. Anne: Right. Laya: It gives me peace of mind as an entrepreneur to say, I have it if I need it, but I don't need to pull the trigger, and I don't need to focus on that work. So I kind of put a loose boundary around that. And then also it just helps give peace of mind to my partners, my agents, my clients to say, I have it, but you should know, I may not be available for directed sessions during this time -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- or something like that, or only if it's the right situation. And so let's talk about how do we let people know that we are going on the road? Anne: Well, I'm so glad you asked because in my BOSS Blast, and I'm just -- shameless plug for the VO BOSS Blast -- every time when we communicate with our potential clients on our list, we will give bookout dates. And as we mentioned before, the best time, the best time to get all those jobs is when you go on vacation, right? Laya: Yup, yes. Anne: So when you inform your potential clients of bookout dates, then hopefully they'll see that as an opportunity to get in touch with you before you go on vacation, right? And hire you then, and have an idea that you're going to be away from, I don't know, this date to this date, or maybe a day here, a day there, and allows them to, number one, because we're sending that email saying, hey, happy summer, just to let you know, I'm going to be booked out from this date to this date. And then it keeps us top of mind. Laya: Yes. Anne: So not only are we informing our potential clients when we might be gone, but we're also keeping ourselves top of mind with them by sending that email out and saying, by the way, I'm going to be booked out, happy summer, keep sending those auditions. I love it. So that is one thing that I will do is send out periodic emails, saying happy summer, you know, whatever, here's the newest job that I just did. And keep sending those auditions. I'll be booked out from this date to this date. Laya: Yes, it's a great way. In fact, I just did that. And as a result, just like you said, it gave my, a few of my clients the foresight and the opportunity to say, hold on, you're here until when? Anne: Yup. Laya: Let me get to two or three of these things. You think you can knock them out before? Yeah. Will you have your rig? You know, a few of my managers came back and said, wait, wait, wait. You know, when it is like a hard date out and can you still be available? Anne: Yup. Laya: So it opens up the conversation and it lets -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- your partners know what your boundaries are, but also gives them an opportunity to flex and maybe book you early or have something waiting for you when you come back, you can't beat that. Right? So the -- Anne: Right? So important to let your agents know when you are -- I cannot tell you how many times, like, my agent or I've heard of stories about agents that, you know, they have a great audition. They send to you, and you don't respond because you're on vacation. And it's one of those things that the agents, please just let me know when you're going to be away, when you're going to be back, what's your availability, because that's something they need to communicate to the client too. So you are working together as a partner with that agent. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so when you go away, they kind of need to know they need to know these things. Laya: How -- absolutely right. How far in advance do you let your partners or your agents know? Anne: As soon as I know, actually that I'm going to be gone. Laya: Really? Anne: I'll just send an email and then yeah. And then I'll also send them, you know, probably a week in advance, I will just say, hey, by the way, just wanted to remind you that I'll be out from this date to this date. Laya: Yeah, that's a good practice. Anne: And that gives them kind of a heads up. Yeah. So, because if I don't, as soon as I know, that just becomes like, oh, on my task list of to-do's, you know, is let everybody know I'm going to be out, prepare that email that I'm going to send to my potential clients that says here's my bookout dates. And then, especially to my agents, I send that right away. And then I'll remember a week before, because I always set my email too. Well, it depends. Sometimes I set my email to be on vacation. And sometimes I don't. Really depends on how I'm feeling the jobs are flowing in or not. Laya: Or what kind of vacation you're going on. Right? Anne: Yeah, exactly. If it's, you know, if it's a weekend or if it's, you know, a few days, I'm not going to do that. But if it's longer than that, I may set up my vacation email. And within that vacation email, just say for important, you know, contact me here or whatever it is. So. Laya: Yes. And I also love to put it in my signature. Anne: Yeah. Oh! Laya: So I'm like you. Anne: That's a good idea. Laya: Yeah. I don't give so such a long lead time because I feel like I might get lost in the shuffle, but about two weeks out, I'll let people know. And then I'll go in with an individual email to, you know, managers, agents -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- clients that are in the mix in the moment and say, hey, just by the way. And then about a week and a half, maybe two weeks out, I include it in my signature, an out of office or out of studio dates, just as an asterisk in the bottom of my signature. Anne: Good idea. Laya: I find that to be helpful. Anne: I like that. Laya: And then even a couple of days out, I will send an auto response to some of my -- it depends again on the type of vacation we're taking, but certainly for this upcoming one. Just keep in mind. Thank you for your email. I'll respond to you shortly. Again, just a reminder, I will be out of a studio from this date to this date. You'll -- I'll, you know, reply momentarily with this current thing before I go or something along those lines, you know? So, so you're really just kind of, another reminder. It just helps so much. I don't think anyone's going to feel like that's a nag. You're helping them to be more available and more accessible. And that's really the name of the game. Right? Anne: So I do know people that actually go on vacation, and they do not bring the rig. Laya: Yes, I am so proud of those people. I want to be one of those people. Anne: Well, I think in that, there's different reasons for that. Laya: Sure. Anne: And actually I have such respect for people that do that because they know their boundaries. Right? Laya: Same. Anne: And they're like, look, I'm on vacation. And that's that. In a lot of ways, it's like, they're confident that, you know, what, if you really want me, you'll be there when I come back. Laya: Yes, and I love that too. Anne: That's a great feeling. That's a great, confident way to manifest. Hey, that's okay. Uh, my vacation is important to me in my, and to be able to reset my creativity. I believe that that's a big thing to be, able to reset, refresh. I mean, that's why we go on vacations, right? Laya: Yeah. Anne: Have you ever gone on a vacation when you come back and you're like, oh, I need a vacation from my vacation? Laya: From the vacation, yes. I actually set those boundaries up on the weekend. I feel like I don't work. Anne: On the weekends. Laya: You know, after about 6:00 on Fridays 'til 8:00 AM on Monday, I take those breaks seriously. I almost never schedule anything work related on those weekends -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: -- so I can give that time to myself and my family. So I do feel like I get the recharge on a regular basis, but of course we need a nicer chunk. So I'll take one vacation a year. And even if it's just a few days where I'm fully checked out -- now I try to build those around seasonal shifts in the industry. Let's talk about that. Anne: Sure, yeah. Laya: Like the best time to vacation without your gear. Is there a time annually or seasonally? Anne: I, you know, that's a really good question because I think in all the years that I've been in this business, you think that a particular time is slow, but then for whatever reason, you'll just all of a sudden become crazy busy. So it's never been consistent for me, except between Christmas and New Year's, if I can say that, the holidays, or -- you know what I mean? The December, January months, I feel that between those two is the time where I feel most people are taking time away from their jobs. Laya: Sure. Anne: And so, but that's a short period of time. That's like a week. Do you know what I mean? Laya: Yeah, it really is. Anne: You know? Laya: It's almost like the last two weeks of December -- Anne: Yup, of the year. Laya: -- is a kind of a shutdown. On the flip side of that though, there are a lot of like fast tracking of campaigns -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- that need to get to market or Black Friday deals or last minute commercials -- Anne: The first of the year. Laya: -- especially in commercial space. Anne: Yes. Laya: And I think probably in promos too, that can be hit or miss, but I fully agree with you on that. I think it used to be where like June, when school was out -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- was kind of slow or, or around those big 4th of July weekend type of the -- Memorial Day, the Labor Day weekends. But what I noticed what happened during the pandemic was because so many of us were shut down and home -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and travel was definitely sloughed off, those holes, the slow periods -- Anne: They changed. Laya: -- they never slowed down. Anne: Yeah. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Oh my gosh. Laya: They really didn't. Anne: Absolutely. They, and I think it might've changed it from now on. I really believe that -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- we've kind of changed our lifestyle a little bit, or I don't know really quite how to term it, but I think there's a lot more online advertising than ever before. And I think that's -- Laya: Yes, it's moving so fast. Anne: Moving fast, and there's just no time for rest. Whereas before I thought there was certain times, certain seasons, but I'll tell you, lately, I don't think there is much, much time. Laya: There's no off season. Right? In voiceover, which is a blessing and a curse. Anne: Yup. Laya: And I'm with you that we need to focus and give ourselves some boundaries. I wish we could be in the four day work week. I think society as a whole has -- Anne: That would be great. Laya: -- has over busied themselves. Anne: I'm totally there. Laya: The productivity is like, it's like never enough, which is a shame, which is why I kind of put parameters around my own weekends or my business hours and things like that. That helps me get a grip. Sure, there'll be some occasions that you can't always work in that, in that way. But again, like we were saying about the four-day weekends, those seem to be pretty solid or at least more forgiving -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- among the client and the deadline demands, or even I see like Friday afternoons get real light. And most of the stuff that comes in even Friday morning -- Anne: Yes, yes. Laya: -- it's like, you can get it to me on Monday. Anne: Yup. Laya: And that seems to give a wider berth -- Anne: Agreed, agreed. Laya: -- or more of the four-day feel to your weekend. Anne: Now -- Laya: Or at least a three feels sometimes. Anne: I'll tell you what, I am, but I'm guilty. I am guilty of not having a four -- I wish I could have a four day work week. Right now, I'm a little bit on the busy side, not just for voiceover, but because I do different things, right? I -- Laya: True. Anne: -- I do this podcast. And so there are certain things that I don't necessarily have time for during the week that get pushed to the weekend. Laya: I agree with that. Anne: And so I am working right now more like six days a week, rather than, you know, I try to take my Sundays off. And so for that, you know, but I've got a plan. And so the plan in my mind is, you know, at some point I am going to retire. And so I'm working and shaping my business so that I can have a comfortable retirement. Laya: Yes. Anne: And so therefore I'm building parts of my business that I feel will be able to help me achieve that goal of not having to worry about money when I am retired. And then I can, I have like all the time in the world to travel the world and enjoy, because I'm a really great person to go on vacation and just be on vacation. I can -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- I'm all or nothing. That's kind of my personality, an all or nothing thing. So I'm either all in work, right, and then kind of like maybe a little bit dull at the playtime, although I don't like to think I'm dull, but when I, when I relax -- Laya: You're not dull. Anne: When I relax, I relax. Laya: Good. Anne: And that to me is an amazing thing. Laya: It's important. Anne: So now we both kind of admitted that we take our, we take our rigs. Laya: I take my rig, I'll admit it. I love it. I love what we do. So it's not work for me. It's like I get to do this. And I think to your point about working six days a week, you know what? But you love what you do. Anne: True. Laya: So how great is that? And it doesn't feel like work, but of course you got to give your throat or your vocal cords -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- your energy some rest too. So, okay. Let's talk about traveling, traveling with these rigs. Anne: Traveling with the rig. 416, for sure. 416, for sure. And I will say that so always, always has been and look, I tried them all. They're cute. I tried the, you know, the Apogee mic. I tried all the little, you know, cute small things. Oh, it's travel. So I want it to be travel-sized, and I could never get it to sound, right, the travel booth, maybe that, that little thing that fits over your microphone that, you know, would give you a, then we give you an acoustic kind of barrier. So it would sound good. No, that didn't work. Laya: No, no. Anne: And honestly -- Laya: Nothing's going to sound good like the 16. Anne: And my pillow fort, right? I mean the pillow fort worked well and the ironing board on top of the, you know, on top of the desk. Laya: Sure. Anne: But I will say that I fell in love with the tri-booth, and I'm going to actively endorse the tri-booth. Laya: Oh yeah? Anne: Which basically is a PVC, you know, moving blanket kind of setup rig that that actually fits in a suitcase, that is less than 50 pounds that you can check. And I love it. I got it when I was moving from one place to another, and I was renting an apartment in between, and it worked awesomely in the apartment. So for a good three months, it kept my business going. And it's wonderful. Fits in a, fits in a suitcase, it's got the rollers and everything, you can check it. And so if I go for a vacation, that's going to be a week or longer, I'm taking that thing with me. It's amazing. Doesn't mean that you can still, you know, record when the maid is in the room vacuuming or even -- Laya: Sure. Anne: -- outside the door. But it really, really works amazingly well with the 416, and George Whittam creates those. It's George Whittam and Rick, Rick Wasserman. So George creates a set of stacks, a stack for you to apply, and it just makes everything just beautiful sounding, just like you were at home in your own -- Laya: Really nice. Anne: Yeah. In your own booth. So that's my plug for the tri-booth, guys. Tribooth.com. Yeah. Laya: Very cool. There was some sort of a laptop, or maybe a smaller compact version I'd seen. Always curious about them. I haven't used them myself yet, but I've certainly considered an investment in a travel booth setup that could fit in my suitcase. So I'll definitely look into George's deal because he's got, you know, his ears are finely tuned for the good stuff. But for me right now, I've been able to just work with the resources in the room, which is always a toss-up. And like I was saying to my agents earlier this week, yes, I will be available for a directed session, but you never know what screaming kid, what slamming doors -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- what cleaning service is doing in the room at any given time. And you may be off time zones, et cetera, or your own schedule. So it's very hard to plan for that, but I think the 416 gets you there, and it sounds beautiful -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- in kind of all of those makeshift ways, you know? So I take mine with me for sure. Anne: I, you know, I am going to, I just mentioned to you, I said, tri-booth. That's how they call it, the tri-booth, but if you want more information, it's tribooth.com and I'll have that link. And the cool thing about the tri-booth, just, just a notation is that you stand up in it, and that really, it gives you the freedom to like, just perform. Whereas before, when I used to huddle myself under, you know, under the comforter, under the -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- the ironing board and, you know, the pillow fort, sometimes it got really uncomfortable, you know? Laya: Sure. You contort yourself in these ways. Anne: At some point I was on my stomach, right? And I'm trying to like, you know, execute breathing when it's just not natural necessarily coming from that position. So the cool thing is that you can stand up, but it is something like if I were just going away for a weekend, like, and you didn't want to check any luggage that maybe not be your, I'll go back to that pillow fort slash ironing board, but any vacation, yeah -- Laya: Sure, traveling lightly. Anne: -- that I'm going for more than a few days, I'm bringing it because it's pretty amazing. So that's now my travel rig -- Laya: I love that. Anne: -- and trust me, I've tried it all. And I think any of you that want to consider travel rigs, or you're new to the industry, just do a Google search for travel VO booth, or travel rig voiceover, and you'll get all sorts of really fun ideas -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- that people use. Laya: What do you use -- I got to ask, what do you use to mount your 416 or your boom arm or your, uh, your tripod? I found a really cool hand -- it's almost, fits in the palm of your hand. It's a little tripod mic stand that fits the 416 mount perfectly. And it is tiny. It was $10 on Amazon. I can't believe -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- that I'm putting a 416 on a $10 stand, but for travel, it's been working for me. I might have to send you a link. Anne: You know what, BOSSes, we'll put the link in our notes on the webpage -- Laya: Oh, cool. Anne: -- because I also have something from Amazon that I have. It's like a fully contained, like, stand that you can put your phone on. You can flip your phone on -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- so you can read your, your scripts as well as the, put the 416 in. With the tri-booth, they actually have an arm that you can mount your 416 on. So it's built in there, comes with -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- yeah, it comes with it. So it's really cool. So we'll put all those links at the end on our page. So very cool. Laya: Now, Anne, I have another question for you when it comes to travel, if you are traveling and working, is it now a work trip? Is it a tax write-off? Is there anything we can do to massage that because you are working? You're doing some of that business negotiation and maybe meeting with clients? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: How does that work for you? Anne: Absolutely. It is. I mean, anything that I might have to purchase, you know, travel-wise equipment wise for working while I'm on the road, absolutely is a write-off. And any time that I might spend, if I'm happen to be in a specific area where I have to, I don't know, maybe I have to go into a studio, I've actually done that as well. Laya: Yeah. Anne: Sometimes I've gone to Vegas and chosen to go to some lovely studios there in Vegas that we all know and love, and that has been a write-off as well. So I believe whatever you can write off while you're working on vacation, absolutely do. Laya: Well, you made a great point there about booking studio time in the city that you're going. What a, win-win. Not only are you getting to experience a new studio, but you're giving that studio business -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- thus making the relationship between you as talent and showing them your level of professionalism or your performance, or what have you -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- deepening a personal one-on-one relationship with that studio, that engineer, whoever it is on the other side, and creating a bond or making a new connection. Anne: Yeah. Laya: So you're winning with the client, with your project, with yourself, with your time, with your back crammed into a little hole. Anne: And you know, yeah. Laya: And you've got that awesome opportunity to, uh, yeah. Anne: You don't have to worry at that point about what your environment's going to be like. Is your audio going to be good? Is it, you know, you're gonna have to worry about the maid that's vacuuming -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- outside the door or -- Laya: No stress -- Anne: -- the air conditioning system that you have no control over that, you know, kicks on in the middle of it all. So yeah, there is always that. I think before you go on a trip, it's always a good idea to research area studios -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and, you know, check them out to see what their availability and their services are, because maybe you'll need to SourceConnect or ipDTL to a studio while you're there. And, uh, you know, just kind of confirm all of those capabilities, introduce yourself. And it's always good, like you said, to, you know, make those connections. Laya: Yeah. You never know what those will turn into. So, uh, I have yet to find one where I'm going on my next destination, off to Maui next week. So I'll be off with my rig. Anne: I'm jealous. Laya: Before I go, I'm going to look into those, uh, those travel setups, because I think that would make life a lot easier. Anne: For sure. For sure. Wow. Good conversation, VO on the road. Two of us admitting that yeah, we take our rigs on the road all the time. Laya: I take it, I take it. Anne: And I aspire to go on that vacation where I say, no, I'm sorry, I'm on vacation, so you'll wait for me for when I come back. But that's cool. It's all good. As you mentioned, I mean, we love what we do. So I mean -- Laya: Exactly. Anne: -- if it's not going to take away every single moment of my vacation, I'm more than happy to bring it along and, you know, help fund fun things that we might do on vacation. Laya: Exactly. It helps pay for the vacation. If you think of it that way, that's the modern mindset approach. If you're flipping the script on that. Anne: And a write-off. Laya: Exactly. And how to apply it financially. Anne: There you go. Laya: So no matter how you VO on the road, think about these opportunities. I think, uh, you never know how it could play out in the best way for your business. Right? Anne: Absolutely. VO on the road. All right, Laya, another excellent conversation. Laya: Thanks, Anne. You too. Good one. Anne: You guys, if you are going on vacation, enjoy that vacation. If you've got a travel rig, take it. Don't use it too much. Make sure you're, you're going there and refreshing your creativity, but hey, don't miss up on those opportunities. And BOSSes, a big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that does allow us to connect even on vacation -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Have an amazing vacation, Laya, I'm jealous. Laya: Thank you, yes. Anne: Yeah. And we'll see you when you get back. Laya: All right. Anne: Bye-Bye. Laya: Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you have the courage to invest in yourself? In this episode, Anne and Laya share how they built their dream booths and how you can too! From soundproofing to equipment, they cover picking the right recording space, investing in quality materials & technology, and taking that financial leap of faith to up your bookability + professionalism like a #VOBOSS! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today, and for the last few sessions, I have been so happy to be co-hosting with special guest Laya Hoffman. Laya! How are you? Laya: Hi. I'm so good, Anne. Loving this, and we've got more cool stuff to talk about. I feel like I could talk to you for hours and hours. Anne: I know. Right? Well, speaking of which, you know, I met you, Laya, when I first met you, I actually didn't meet you. I saw an amazing booth tour of your new booth. Laya: Oh yeah. Anne: Now I think you had just moved, and you built a booth -- is it downstairs? Laya: Yes, I would -- I would like to say it's an entire studio, if I may, because -- Anne: Yes, you built an entire studio. Yes, you did. Laya: It was a dream come true. Let me tell you, and it's because I came out of a booth, but we can go even further back then. Anne: I was so impressed. Laya: Thank you. Anne: I was so impressed with your booth tour that I thought, oh my gosh, that is like the coolest video booth tour I've ever seen. Laya: Thank you. Anne: And I absolutely loved your space. And you were sharing that space also with your daughter doing your podcast. And I just, I reached out to you, and that's basically how we met. And I'm so glad that we did, because now here we are doing a podcast series, so I'm absolutely loving it. And I thought let's talk about our booths because we've had some really wonderful experiences in building our booths. And I'll tell you what, my booth experiences, they've just been an evolution of my business, and coming from, you know, being in the closet -- and there's nothing wrong with recording in your closet. It's all about, you know, the sound that you're getting, but I'll tell you what, there's something to be said for graduating to a booth that's kind of like a custom beautiful place that you can sit -- Laya: It's a big girl booth. Anne: Yeah, a big girl booth, I love it -- when you can sit and just do what you love. And I just absolutely love my new booth. Let's talk about our booths 'cause we're booth babes. Let's do it. Laya: Booth babes. I love it. Yes. The modern mindset is to create space that you feel good in. Anne: Yeah. Laya: And so to be, whether it is your closet or your you've created a new studio, or you've got a custom booth or a Whisper Room or any one of those things, a Studio Bricks, there's so many beautiful options out there. No matter what space you're working in, I think it's important to just feel good in this space. So like you said. Anne: Agreed. Laya: You know, no matter where you are in the stage of your career or your journey, as long as you feel good there, and there's something that connects you to your surroundings and your atmosphere, that's when you're going to feel your best and to deliver your best. Exactly. Anne: And you know what's so interesting is I've been through a few booths. I don't mean that to like, oh, I got one booth after the next, after the next, but one of my first actual booth-booths instead of being in my closet was built by my dad. And there's something to be said -- Laya: That's awesome. Anne: -- about being in a space that you feel good about. My dad built me that booth out of love. Laya: Yes! Anne: I mean, my dad has always supported me, never once asked me a question about what I was doing. He didn't necessarily understand voiceover, but when I said, Dad, I need to build a booth. That gives me some good sound. And so my dad was like, okay, let's do it. And my dad bought me this booth. And every time I stepped in that booth, and I'm going to get a little bit like probably teary because I just felt his love every single time. Laya: Yes. Anne: And I, I used that for years. Laya: That's so beautiful. Anne: I used that booth for years and every time I stepped in there, I felt my dad's love and confidence in me and just his support. And it was a wonderful, wonderful thing. And I'll tell you about -- Laya: What a beautiful experience for you. Anne: Yeah. And with my new booth, I also made sure because now he's older, I also made sure that he was involved in the booth, and he was here for the building of this booth too, which I'm so, so proud of. Laya: I bet he took great pride in that, you know, so doing something with his hands that he could create to give his daughter this gift is so beautiful, Anne. Good for you. What a nice story. Anne: It is, it is awesome. Laya: I have a different story, but -- Anne: That's what -- let's hear it. Let's hear it. I'm ready. Laya: We moved into a new house a few years ago, and we're in the northwest suburbs here of Atlanta. And, uh, the basement was unfinished. So, you know, when basements are unfinished and weird, there's like cement, dusty floors and two by fours and insulation that's just like rotting off the walls? Yeah. It's just full of probably terrible pollutants. Well, that was my first booth. Um, we call it Skid Row studios. I used a bunch of mattresses. Anne: I love it. Oh my gosh, you had mattresses. I love it. Laya: It was a mattress factory booth. It was disgusting. I'm not proud of the mites and the weirdness that I was probably consuming in that box. But you know, that just goes to show you work with what you got, you know, and if you really love this work, and you can get through that, you can carry on through and have a pretty solid career, I'm pretty sure. If that didn't break me, that mattress factory Skid Row studio. Anne: Skid Row studio. Laya: It really was. That was my first studio. And then after that, I invested in a custom booth, and I won't even give the brand because unfortunately this situation was a super negative one for me, and the booth arrived on a pallet. You know, you can imagine how excited you are. You invested -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- this giant chunk of change in your business. It was like my last dollar, but I knew that the space was not secure -- Anne: Yeah, sure. Laya: -- and it wasn't healthy to be in that space for me. And my daughter was working with me at the time. So, you know, she's six years old. I didn't want to breathing her all of that and making the experience less than enjoyable. So I invested, and this thing came on a pallet as they do broken into a million pieces. Anne: Oh man. Laya: And so it was really, I can't even tell you how my heart sunk into my stomach. Anne: Yeah, I bet. Laya: Like, was this a bad decision for my business? I mean, we, uh, gosh, it really almost broke me, but it was that learning experience of building it back together, dealing with the manufacturer, who's not kind, and it was really unfortunate to make me realize, like, I do really want this, and I'm going to work towards creating space one day that I can achieve that feels good. Anne: Oh yeah, and that you are deserving of. Laya: And is every bit the essence. Anne: Right? You absolutely -- that was my big thing is when I built the studio, what well, both studios, it was, it was a space that I was deserving of, you know, and a space that I needed, and I needed to be able to feel good to perform well. And that was a huge part. Laya: And making the investment sometimes, while it seems like a bit of a gut punch, especially if you don't have it, it all goes back to the mindset of building your voiceover business, right? Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: You have to invest and you have to spend the money to make the money. Anne: True. Laya: And in a way that was my brick and mortar investment, right? Which, I didn't have a storefront and didn't have to create a shop, buy a bunch of merchandise. My business was that space. And so making that investment, while I just knew it would pay off eventually, but it had to feel right around me to get there. Anne: Oh yes. Laya: And that gave me the confidence to continue on. And now here we are, we're in a custom-made studio, and I couldn't be more proud of this space. So, and feel, feel, I couldn't feel more amazing in here too. Anne: Oh yeah, yeah. Laya: So yeah, let's get into that. Anne: Well, so I'll tell you about, I'll go back to my first built booth. I mean, because I, you know, I, myself was in -- I was in a closet, and it was a, it was a closet that was like a storage closet. And what I didn't realize, I thought, well, everybody, you know, everybody starts in their closet. It wasn't a clothes closet. Right? So there were a lot of hard surfaces. And in my early years, I don't know anything about sound or, you know, creating a good space for, for my recording. And so, no matter what I did, had carpet in there, I tried to hang blankets, no matter what I did, it sounded horrible. And so ultimately that was when I talked to my dad and I said, Dad, I need a space. And he built it. And it just was wonderful. And I will, I'm going to give a big plug for George Whittam, who was an amazing help, who helped us really kick that up another notch and make it sound amazing. And that was just, it was a homemade booth. You know, we went and got lumber and drywall, and at the time we had installation. We didn't use Rockwool, but George was able to help us really add panels that had Rockwool in it and make things sound really amazing and also give me a set of filters, you know, that always helps. Laya: Presets, yeah. Anne: I always recommend presets, get those stacks to, to really just make that sound amazing. And it was a wonderful thing. I've got it all documented. I'll put links, you know, on our page so you guys can see it links with the materials we used. But this past couple of years, when I moved, I had an extra office space, and I too had almost come to the decision where I was going to order a pre-built booth. And it was going to be very expensive. It was going to take a long time to get to me. And I, you know, was kind of going back and forth between, should I get this pre-built booth because I want to make sure my house is, you know, resale, I'm already thinking resale, even though I haven't moved into it yet, but I'm thinking -- Laya: Yeah, you have to think about that, for sure. Anne: -- I don't want to build a booth in my house because it might affect resale value. So I'm thinking pre-built booth. And then by the time -- Laya: And you can take it with you, right, if you, if you were to move. You could break it down, you know, and that's great, great theory. Anne: But I was floored, I was floored by the expense -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- of the booths. Laya: Yes. Anne: And then I thought, gosh, I'm going to have to hire somebody to install it for me. And then, and then I came to find out that yet you needed to add stuff on the inside of the booth. And I'm like -- for voiceover, then there was a whole other thing where, oh, okay. So then I've got to treat it. And I think that's the case with a lot of prebuilt booths where people don't always realize that you, sometimes you do have to add to the inside of that booth -- Laya: Oh yes, oh yes. Anne: -- to make it an acoustic space that is, you know, worthy. And then I ended up just looking around thinking, what else can I do? Because this just seems, there's no guaranteed date as to when it's going to get there. And I need to be able to continue my work. You know, in the meantime, I'm in an apartment or a rental, you know, until my house, my house was being built, until it was ready. And I thought, I just, there's no way to guarantee the delivery on a certain day without having to wait a whole long time. And I said, let's look into a custom built booth. Laya: Yeah. Anne: And I contacted a good friend of mine. And I think someone that you also know, and -- Laya: Drumroll, please. Anne: -- everybody loves, Mr. Tim Tippets, who -- Laya: Tim Tippets. Anne: -- was just an amazing, amazing instrument in creating the space that I have now. And I absolutely love it. From start to finish, he helped me design it. He actually came here and literally he left the day or the day before lockdown in California. Laya: I remember that. I remember watching that unfold on social media -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and thought, I mean, he's my audio angel also. Anne: Isn't he, right? Laya: I have a heart for, for Tim. Anne: Yep. Laya: And the fact that he kind of brought us together. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Laya: I watched that whole build go down. You guys did an amazing job -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- of tracking it in real time. Anne: Yup. Laya: And just how many hands were involved in the process -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and the complexity of building a studio into the walls, into the fabric of your home. It really takes it to a different level. And there are so many nuances, right? Anne: Well, yeah, absolutely. Laya: So it was fascinating to see your process. I loved it. Anne: And you know, what's really cool is that it's not really built into the room. It's actually a booth within the room. Laya: Okay, cool. Anne: So it just looks like it's a part of the room, which is really a really cool thing. So if I ever moved from here, all I've got to do is take down a couple of the walls, and I've not really destroyed. I mean, the walls that he's put up around this booth. Laya: Oh, that's so cool. I didn't realize that. Anne: So, yeah, so I haven't destroyed, yeah, I haven't destroyed any of the original construction, which is -- Laya: Very cool. Anne: -- really cool. And you, again, I've got an extensive blog on that creation and how wonderful it was. We -- it did take at least three to five people on a day-to-day basis, and it is perfectly custom built, and it actually ended up being more efficient cost-wise than a prebuilt. Believe it or not. Laya: It's kind of -- no, I believe it. I believe it wholeheartedly in fact. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: I had a similar experience with mine, so it's nice to hear that you felt the same way too, because I think the misconception can be, if you build a studio space in your home or a booth within a room situation like you did, oh, it's gotta be totally crazy expensive. Or you get all these crazy quotes from contractors -- Anne: Exactly. Laya: -- who might be considering what it takes to build a theater room, which is acoustically very different -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Laya: -- than a voiceover specific room. Anne: And I'm not saying that in all instances, is it going to be cheaper than this or -- that really depends on what booths you're looking at, but I will say -- Laya: Know what you're using, yeah. Anne: -- completely customized to me. Laya: Yeah. Anne: I don't think I could have gotten a pre-built booth that was custom the way this is. Like, literally they measured like how tall I was to where to mount the monitor, the height of the desk, where to put the electrical, understanding where I'm putting lighting, just amazing. I have two mics in here and the third mic outside of the booth, just connecting everything. There's no way I could have gotten something equivalent with a prebuilt situation. Laya: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And for that, I am eternally grateful, and I just, I come in this booth and I love it. I love it. And my father, he's so funny because my father, it -- this actually has -- it's double-walled, right? Green-glued, Rockwool everywhere and Rockwool panels. Laya: Same, same. Anne: And it's got two doors. So not just one. I'm all proud of the fact that I have two doors to get into this booth. And my father, love him, love him, love him. He was like, okay, it's -- their actual, you know, like doors that you would use -- Laya: Solid core doors, solid core. Anne: -- like solid core doors. And they have a lock on them. And my father's like, no, you will take that lock out because we don't want Anne to ever, you know, possibly lock herself in, or, you know, God forbid, somebody, you know what I mean? God forbid somebody breaks in the house in -- Laya: Yeah, you gotta think about the safetiness. Sure. Anne: Oh, he's all about my safety. And he was just adamant. So we -- Laya: I love your dad. Anne: I know! We had to remove the locks. Laya: Never met him, I love him. Anne: So there's no way I can lock myself in the booth. And I have had that issue. I've read other people who've had the issue where they've locked them -- what if something happened? I mean, God forbid, I, you know, faint in the booth, and you know, nobody can get to me because it's locked. So, you know, my dad was stickler for that. And really it was lovely having him here the whole time with the crew and overseeing things. It was really lovely. Laya: Awesome. Anne: And I just, I cannot say enough wonderful things about Tim and Tim's crew who helped me to build this amazing, completely custom booth. So. Laya: Well, I had a similar experience, but very different, and of course a different outcome, but I have the same sentiment. I walk into this space every day, and I get to share it with my daughter -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- which is also a gift. And it just pulls out this most creative, amazing feeling of love and excitement and pride for the work that we do and how far we've come doing this work. And yes, it was an investment and yes, I had that booth, but the booth always, because of how the situation was handled, always had this air of negativity -- Anne: Oh yeah. Laya: -- a bit of regret and resentment. And I could feel that energetically. And so I knew that when we remodeled our, when we finished our basement rather, that we had always planned to create space where I could work. And while I also thought about resell value and things like that, the way we built it will be ideal for the next person to create their studio or their office or their gym in, um, that kind of keeps the sound contained. As you know, there's so much work from home now. Anne: Yeah. Laya: This will create the perfect space for someone else to create their office in, in the future. But we have no plans to do that for a long time. But we worked with our general contractor who initially, like I said, had the thought that, oh, you just build it like a movie theater. You know, we'll throw up some, uh, audio seal sound barrier on the wall -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and then we'll, you know, play over it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Anne: And they always want that, that soundproof drywall, which is not what you want actually. Laya: Right, not what you want. Anne: There's that -- the stuff they sell at Lowe's. And I think they call it soundproof or I forget what kind of drywall they call it, but it's very heavy -- Laya: Yup. Anne: -- and it's not what you need for a booth. Laya: And so of course, I got my audio angel involved in -- Anne: Yes, Tim. Laya: -- again, this is in the height of the pandemic. And so Tim Tippets, we consulted virtually. We did an initial run through, and this was new for him. Of course he wanted to be hands on like he was for yours. Anne: Oh, he's so passionate. Laya: And you got to love that. Anne: Gosh. Laya: This was on the heels of your booth. We think we built in November. And so we were doing some consults, and I would show him the schematics. And luckily I was working with a designer on the entire basement space. So this was just a portion of it, which, and it was twofold positive because I got to write off a portion of our construction bill -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and supplies on the studio and roll that into the cost of, of the overall build and renovation. So that was a plus, but Tim really worked with us to make sure my contractor knew -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- firsthand what the right supplies were, you know, using Rockwool -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- using Green Glue -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- making sure to create that space in between the dry wall -- Anne: Absolutely. Laya: -- double layered walls, et cetera. The ceiling is even double layered. We were very clear about, I even have a solid core wood door, just one, but it's doing the trick, and a triple-paned glass window. Anne: Oh yes, nice. Laya: So I don't feel claustrophobic in here. I can see from a safety perspective, et cetera. And so that's been a blessing, but then we took it a bunch of steps further just because I had supplies, and we were creating the space for a multitude of reasons. We were of course doing voiceover work. So there's a specific corner in the room that has our yellow tack mic and boom arms. And I can sit at the desk and have this dead dead sound in the corner. And then the other side, which is the podcasting based, more of a lounge, it's able to be both acoustically and aesthetically sound so that I can film the show on camera. Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: And it's a beautiful lounge. Anne: Beautiful. Laya: Thank you so much and colorful -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- so it invokes creativity and sparks joy. And, uh, my daughter feels like this is just as much her space. In fact, she had a hand in picking everything from the colors of the acoustic panels to the couch and the Dalmatian print floor. Anne: So let's -- let's talk a bit about the famous acoustic panels that are Tim Tippets'. Laya: Yes! Anne: He's got that amazing DYI, YouTube videos -- Laya: He does. Anne: -- and I'll tell you what, and I've purchased acoustic panels before, and they're expensive. Laya: They are. Anne: And the way that Tim makes these panels, it's amazing, number one. I have throughout my booth and my room, I have 27 of Tim's custom panels. Laya: Yup. Anne: 27. Which is -- Laya: That is an obscene amount. Anne: It's obscene. Laya: But I feel like I have a lot as well. Anne: But I have a big room too. Laya: I love them. Yeah. Well pad -- padded rooms, you know, I feel safe in here. It's kind of nice. And I love his build. I, before I knew about Tim's build, I had -- and in here in our backyard in Atlanta, GIK Acoustics is in our neck of the woods, and I had purchased six panels for my four by six standalone booth. Because as you mentioned earlier, it's not good enough to have this double wall expensive custom booth. You also got to get the panels in there -- Anne: Yup, yup. Laya: -- and the foam, if you like. Anne: Exactly. Laya: I mean, whatever. So we put all that back in the room, and then I was also got really lucky. Otherwise I too would have built Tim's panels, but a good friend of mine that owns a nearby studio here was offloading some Wenger acoustic panels. They're huge. I mean, I think I have a two on the ceiling, two cloud floats. They're six foot by three foot, to give you some idea. Anne: Wow, that's great. Laya: And they are huge. Um, we recovered them, made them our own, and popped them up on the wall for fairly inexpensive because -- Anne: Excellent. Laya: -- I bought them used, you know, so you gotta do what you can do, but I love those resources Tim's made available. Anne: We, we were like a panel making shop out in the garage. Laya: Yes. Oh yeah. Anne: And you know, one thing that I'll -- I'll mention that I did not realize is that Tim is such a stickler for detail. I mean, every single part, like you could just see him on a day-to-day basis. Like just everything going on in his head, like calculating the most perfect sound to come out of -- Laya: The guy's a machine. Totally. Anne: He is -- he -- now, and I never realized this, but I have four inch thick panels. Laya: Yeah, same here. Anne: Now when I purchased my panels, yeah, when I purchased my panels before I had just purchased two inches, not thinking anything of it, like, do I need thicker? But he explained so very nicely to me why the four inches and plus he, he puts them -- Laya: Right, the air flow in the back. Right? You gotta have that. Anne: Exactly. He's got air flow in the back, which I never realized. And all of these little tiny details, which really make a huge, huge difference when you're in my booth. Laya: And it defines the sound, right? And so when we all -- we like to talk about having broadcast quality sound. Sure, sure. Here. Who knows what the barometer for that really is when it comes to home studios or your noise floor, but he was able to, and again, he wasn't onsite, but because of the way I was able to generate the 3d cads -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- we actually had the design team take the size specs of my acoustic panels. I was very concerned about it because I was like, these things are huge. Anne: Yeah. Laya: If we put them in the walls and mount them up or I get the placement wrong -- Anne: You've lost all this space. Laya: Oh my gosh. Right. And then how do you configure furniture? I must have racked my brain about that for forever. But Tim explained it in very simple terms as he does -- Anne: Yes. Laya: -- um, for the acoustically challenged and, um, help you really maximize the space. And it sounds pristine because of it. And so I'm so grateful for that knowledge -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- and his support. Yeah. Anne: And I will say again, this podcast is been renamed to the Tim Tippets love fest. Laya: So he does not need to be -- how does he go anywhere? Anne: Honestly, he is probably one of the best teachers, right? Not only is he amazing at creating an acoustic space, but he also can teach you, like you said, he explains it to you in layman's terms -- Laya: Yes. Anne: -- so that it makes it easy to understand. And I really had such an education watching this booth go up with Tim and just understanding. And so I just, again, you know, kudos and, and just so grateful for Tim and his help for this booth. And I don't ever need another booth. I mean, unless of course I'm going to move again. Laya: I'm not going anywhere. Anne: But I am so happy. I am so happy in this space. And there's so much to be said for being happy in this space. You know, my father had a hand in it and Tim was just wonderful. And that just makes a huge difference because we spend a lot of time here. So you, you know, one of the modern mindset is that you, as a talent, as a creative, as an artist, you deserve a space in which you feel amazing in. Laya: Yeah, so you can give the best possible performance. Anne: Make that investment, you know, and it's, and it may be hard. I understand. There's so many people that get into this industry and they're like, yeah, but this is so expensive. Or this, that is so expensive. I think, you know, BOSSes, we need to keep in mind that this is a business, there are investments to be made. And they're not necessarily like while you can get away with a pillow fort and an ironing board and a, and a comforter, you know, ultimately in the long run you make a good investment. Had I realized, you know, so many years ago when we were talking about our VO-to-go travel rigs, that I should have just gotten a 416. I spent so much money on all those cute little other mics that I couldn't make sound good. Same thing. I think I graduated into this custom built booth, but I absolutely, it was the right time for me. And I had come to a point in my business where I said, you know what? I deserve. I deserve a -- Laya: Yeah. Anne: -- an amazing booth. I deserve that. And why have I not thought about that before? I don't need to cram myself into a little space -- Laya: No. Anne: -- or, you know, into a closet if I can reinvest that money. And I think it takes courage to invest a significant amount of money into your studio. And -- Laya: It does. Anne: You know? And this pandemic of course has heightened, right, the fact that we need good spaces. Laya: Yeah. And your audio imprint is again, your brand. It is everything. So why not make it sound the best? Anne: Yeah. Laya: I've said before in a previous podcast, but my modern mindset always goes back to the fact that I'm not trying to break the bank. I'm very frugal and very aware of the spending in the investments that I'm making. For sure. However, I don't want to spend twice. And it's -- Anne: Yeah. Laya: -- if I get it right the first time, then that sets me up for success as far as my brand, my accountability, my audio imprint. Because if you send out crap audio in this day and age, you won't get a second listen, and you can tell the difference. And so what I do, even with the studio, even having the presets dialed in, having worked with Tim often, I will often check back in with producers that I'm close with -- Anne: Yup. Laya: -- and people I've worked for before and say, hey, give me an audio check real quick. I'm always tweaking. Anne: Great idea. Laya: I'm always making sure, like I am audibly standing up to the competition. And nine times out of ten, I hear your audio stands up better than most, for sure. And definitely is a clear definitive -- you can hear it. You can hear the difference. You can hear that you're a pro by the audio you deliver. And so if that is your first impression, and that's all you got, I mean, your performance could be amazing. But if the acoustics and the sound don't have the utmost clarity, then your professionalism just kind of got knocked down a notch unfortunately. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Laya: So it is something to consider when approaching where your next steps are going -- Anne: Sure. Laya: -- in your business or where you are today. Anne: It is a package. And I, and I think, yeah, I like to bring in the modern mindset philosophy here is that, you know, you are a package of your audio, your sound, the way you present yourself online, the whole thing is a package. And the whole thing makes a difference. If you are set with putting forth your brand in a very professional way. So. Laya: Yeah, it definitely affects your bookability for sure. And one of the reasons, just going back to your how we met, the reason I created -- I hired a film company that normally does tours for homes as they go to market -- Anne: Yup. Laya: You know, if you can, you can hire somebody like that. And that's exactly what I did because I knew the cost would be more effective that way. Anne: Oh my gosh. The marketing was amazing. Laya: Yeah, thank you. And then that using that video on my website, on YouTube as part of my signature -- Anne: Part of your market. Yeah. Laya: It's the audio nerds that love that stuff. It's the engineers who book you, the creatives, that book you that see that. And they're like, oh my God, this chick knows what's up. Anne: Yeah. Laya: How cool is that? Anne: Yes! Laya: And I got a lot of work just from that video. Anne: Just from that video. And the cool thing is, is that you're not necessarily like saying, hire me, hire me, voiceover. You're not doing like, hey, this is Laya. You know, this is my voice. You're actually showcasing your, your studio, and you're passionate about it and your personality. So it becomes like, you know, we talk about our podcast, right? It's like a side benefit. People get to know you through your podcast. People get to know you through your studio tour, and they get to see that personality. And they say, you know what? I want to work with her. Laya: Yeah. Anne: She knows what's going on. Laya: And your level of commitment. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Laya: Yeah, right? Anne: And so it really becomes, it becomes that whole modern mindset. The package, here I am, the deal. I'm the real deal here. So. Laya: I'm the pro with a modern minded BOSS. Right Anne? Anne: Absolutely. Laya: I love it. Thank you. Good talk. Anne: Well, this has been so much fun talking about our booths, 'cause we love them. Laya: I hope to come to your booth one day -- Anne: That's right. Laya: and I hope you can come to mine. Anne: Me too. Laya: You know, one day we'll BOSS up that way -- Anne: Me too. Laya: -- when the world opens. Anne: So BOSSes, remember you deserve, you deserve a good space. You deserve a good space. You deserve to feel -- Laya: Feel good in it. Anne: Yeah. You deserve to feel amazing in this space where you are creating and performing and being the artist that you are. So big shout-out to ipDTL who is in the booth today. You can find out more at ipdtl.com, and you guys, have an amazing week. Laya, it's been amazing as always. Thank you. Laya: Thank you for having me, Anne. Thanks, BOSSes, for listening. It was good to be back. Anne: All right, guys. See you next week. Bye-bye. Laya: See you. Bye-Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.